# Looking for feedback from people "with agents"



## Guy Bacos (Aug 5, 2011)

I've been on a mission of hunting for directors lately. I wrote to tons of them and getting excellent replies from my demo-reel. Along the way, I came across an agent from Hollywood who wants to represent me. The fact that he seemed eager to be my agent and was surprised I didn't already have an agent made me believe I should shop around a bit before deciding anything. So, my first question is: 

1-Where can you shop for agents that deal specifically with film composers? 

2-Do you have an agent you could refer to me?

3-What are the most important things to look for in an agent, other than getting you work?

Anything else about agents you care to share would be appreciated. 

Thanks!

Guy


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## gsilbers (Aug 5, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

i dunno.. 

its been my understanding that an agent just works when you have work. 

to take care of the money side of things and contract related issues. 

to find directors and filmmakers/editors u have to go and network at places they hang out and 

do "favors" or catch 22 of them seeing you in good films so u can work on good films. 

but i might be wrong and i f u live in an area not in LA then it might be difficult. 

the words agent and hollywood already conquer a lot of negative tthings. 

hollywood might sound like "something" to everyone except for LA folks who know that anyone can rent a small office in that awful place and call themselves "working in hollywood"


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## IvanP (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Guy, If you seek someone to get you Gigs or interviews, I think it would be wisest to seek a publicist 1st, from my (very) limited knowledge of how things work in the US. 

Hope that the US folks can chime in on this 

Good luck!

Iván


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## Mike Marino (Aug 6, 2011)

Yeah, I'm not too sure about it, Guy. From what I've been told, agents and representation will generally find you (often during or after completing large projects).....not the other way around. Like IvanP, that is my very limited knowledge as well. Sorry I can't more of help to you.

- Mike


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## RiffWraith (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Typically, you do not simply go out and find an agent. Agents come after you - but not unless you are already established with major feature film credits under your belt. Of course there are exceptions, but that's the general rule.

Agents work for you when you are not working (you would like to think so) - tho, if you are just barely up and coming, and have just signed with an agency, how much they are actually doing this is up for debate. They are someone for the producer to call when the producer wants you, and they negotiate the terms of the contract for you. Beyond that, I am not really sure what they do. What else is there for them to do? :lol:

Publicist? Umm, what would a publicist do?

Cheers.


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Thanks for the feedback guys!

I understand it's a bit of a tricky question. I also understand agents work when you work, but they also are involved in getting you work, at least that was my understanding with the one I spoke to.

Riffwraith, good thing you said, "in general", this agent came after me after hearing my demo-reel. So I guess it CAN work this way. :wink: 

An agent, what he does, as my understanding, is negotiate ANY work you may have, since us composers are not the most business people, so they will get you the best deal possible and taking into account everything.

If anyone has an agent out there, I'd appreciate you chiming in.


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## Mike Marino (Aug 6, 2011)

Guy,

I also think (and I'm sure you know this) that it maybe be worth getting some books on music business and studying up a bit as well. If you have an agent who handles that stuff, it would be cool....but I think you, yourself, should also have a firm grasp on how all of that stuff goes down, too. The last thing you'd want to happen is to let the fox in the hen house (so-to-speak).

- Mike


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Ideally yes Mike, and I appreciate the thought, but if I could get some tips for now, especially from people with experience with agents, that would be very helpful. Nothing like talking to people with "current" experience in this area.


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## Mike Marino (Aug 6, 2011)

+1


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## gsilbers (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

maybe not many responses cause its not common to have agents in filmscoring unless u need them to negotiate against the big studios. 

i have several working composer friends here in LA who have done tons of TV and films and none have agents. 
one of them is part of the remote control group (not the heavy hitters) and he doesnt have an agent. 

i only know of one and think u know him too.. lucas vidal. his friend is his agent so u can ask him. 

hope that helps.


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

The agent isn't a big deal for me. I'm not counting on the agent to get work for me, I'm not sitting on my ass and putting all my eggs on one guy. I have been in the process of sending my music to 2500 directors in US alone and this is just the start. I have a whole system and staff organized for this. This is paying back real well so far, the agent was unexpected, but if he take 10% only, and can negotiate twice as much as the shy and inexperienced in negotiating Guy Bacos would, seems it makes sense to me. If you are a good negotiator and don't mind taking the time and additional stress for this, than the better for you. Depends on what works best in your situation. Minimal contracts are of 1 year. If after a year I see, wow, this guy has made a big difference in my income, well great, if it hasn't done a thing, then end it. My only concern was, should I sign with the first agent that shows up or first do some homework and look around a bit?


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## Mr. Anxiety (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

RiffWraith has said it very well.

Agents come after you, these days, after hearing of a fairly major project you've done or are being asked to do. They typically have a decent roster with composers not working, so adding another one without a job is not high on their list.

Agents don't really get you work..... they work with you and your contacts to keep work going that you already have connections too. If you are lucky enough to work on a successful film, then they can come in handy to negotiate more money and reach out for more work with your successful credit under your belt. The classic definition is "they field offers and negotiate fees". Expecting them to "get you work" is not accurate.

I don't know what to say about an agent wanting to sign you after hearing your reel.
An established agent gets really good reels a lot, and as I said above, probably has a group of composer already signed that are in need of gigs. Adding someone without job prospects these days is very rare.

Not living in Los Angeles will still be an issue, especially starting out, since meetings will be very critical at this stage. Unless you have funds to fly at a moments notice back and forth, and get enough notice of a meeting, you will probably run into issues with location.

This is not meant to be a discouragement, I hope you find this informative and realistic. The funny thing about established composers and agents is that rarely do you ever have a conversation where a composer says anything great about their agent; they are always grumbling about wanting more work...... wanting different work....... why so and so got that job.........., etc.

You get your own work, and it is a tough process that requires constant attention and a lot of luck; no talent contest here I'm afraid. Expecting someone else to do it is really dreaming.

Been there........ doing that still!

Mr A


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Well once again, I said everything clearly in the preceding post, maybe you missed it while writing yours, please take the time to read it. I don't think I need to add anything else.


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## Mr. Anxiety (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

I did...... C'est La Vie.


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Everything you wrote I explained in my post.


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

I'm just saying things as they happen, it seems some people think my music isn't deserving of the attention of an agent just from my demo-reel and my website. And if it did, either he's incompetent, sounds suspicious, or desperate. Well that's what happened, sorry if it sounds strange to some.


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

I'm getting a sense that many composers have a problem being happy for others and encouraging them. This is just a minor stepping stone for me, and something to be proud of.


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## midphase (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

o=? o=? o=? o=? o=? o=? o=? o=? o=?


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Come on midphase, that is getting old.


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## Mr. Anxiety (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Guy, Best of luck with your adventures in the entertainment business.


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*



Mr. Anxiety @ Sat Aug 06 said:


> Guy, Best of luck with your adventures in the entertainment business.



Thanks! 

Absolutely, it will be a trial and error thing and I'm looking forward to it, some things will have been mistakes, but I'll learn and go forward as I have always done.


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## germancomponist (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Guy, google his name and look what you can find.

Yeah, all composers are so friendly together, but when it comes to helping to get jobs...... .


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## midphase (Aug 6, 2011)

Guy,

I really don't get the "attitude"

You asked a question, and you got reasonable answers from people who live eat and breathe this stuff on a daily basis.

Nobody is passing judgement on you as a composer, but rest assured that most agencies who rep film and tv composers in this town won't even return your calls unless they immediately recognize the films you worked on from billboards plastered all over this town.

All that we're saying is that you ought to use your judgement in determining if this agent who contacted you is legit because to most of us, red flags would be going up by now.

Other than that, you can get a listing of composer agencies by doing a quick google search...there are only a handful and as I suggested in my PM, I would advise you to set up meetings with them and come to LA for a couple of weeks to get a sense of how things work. But either way...you don't "shop" for them, typically they find you.

As far as agents recommendations, I don't think you'll get that either...once again use google and you'll find the few that exist.

As far as what to look for, I think that's been amply answered. They don't look for work for you, but rather negotiate on your behalf and sometime open up doors to some meetings....sometime.


In general you seem to act like you already know everything and unless people tell you exactly what you want to know, you get all defensive and are too easily put off. Honestly, this just makes you come across as naive and with a massive ego.

Nobody here puts your compositional skills in question and I think it's time that you move on from feeling like everyone around here has some secret agenda against you, we don't.

If Michael Gorfaine just called you based on your awesome demos and they want you to fill the gap that Zimmer left...more power to you!


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

midphase @ Sat Aug 06 said:


> They don't look for work for you, but rather negotiate on your behalf and sometime open up doors to some meetings....sometime.



I don't think I know everything Midphase, i've mentioned maybe 3 times that I already understand what you just said here,(scroll back) and people KEEP repeating it. So PLEASE, I already know this part. Maybe people don't read earlier posts, I don't know. I've also spoke to one on the phone, so you have to respect my conversation with him without being overly suspicious.


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

What I should of done, and no disrespect for the feedback here, but just pm someone like terry huud who has an agent. I really wanted advice from people who HAVE agents.


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## germancomponist (Aug 6, 2011)

Very interesting. 

Guy, in the last 1 minute I thought to myself: "Guy, ask Terry....." , because I know he has an agent.... .


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

I did.

And you have to respect that the composers with agents are much more in position to give you feedback on this question.

Ok Terry, waiting for you!


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Oh, and for the 4th person who will soon tell me, agents don't get you work: I ALREADY KNOW THAT!" And their role is to negotiate for you, I KNOW THAT PART AS WELL.


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## hbuus (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Guy Bacos, I find it more than a little ironic that nobody wants to give you detailled info on this subject of the business side of things - given that you yourself have never really been willing to share detailled info about how you make your music :D 

That said, I understand this is a deep wish of yours and therefore I hope for your success. Though your human skills could need a little work.

Henrik


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*



hbuus @ Sat Aug 06 said:


> Guy Bacos, I find it more than a little ironic that nobody wants to give you detailled info on this subject of the business side of things - given that you yourself have never really been willing to share detailled info about how you make your music :D
> 
> 
> 
> Henrik



Is this something that others agree with?


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## hbuus (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Example:

That other VSL guy, Jay Bacal - he sometimes leaves full MIDI data on his music to be downloaded. You? You leave nothing.

Then in this forum, when you give advice it is always seen from a rooftop looking down so to speak. You always speak in broad terms. It is never detailled info that is easily put to work.

This is my impression at least.


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## Mr. Anxiety (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Yes..... this is a great idea. Talk with a composer who has an agent. Check in with Terry Huud and let us know if he has different things to say about his agent. 

Lords knows I don't have an agent................

I'm just some anonymous guy on this forum giving random advice ............


Mr A


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## germancomponist (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*



Guy Bacos @ Sat Aug 06 said:


> Is this something that others agree with?



I not.

But Guy, I have many friends who work as composers, but when it comes to this theme...., . I had got all my jobs with no help from them.... . o/~


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## lux (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Guy, I think people here gave you the right advice, which you seem to somehow refuse to listen.

You cant have an agent. Surely not a good one and perhaps neither an average one. I've been told that in the past and after some thought i perfectly understood the reasons why, so I invite you to do the same.

- An agent deserves this name once he has one or more hooks. Which means that he's "heard" where people decide about post-production matters. Agents which dont have an hook arent agents. 

- An agent which have one or more hooks will look to connect composers with a solid and established portfolio. For more than one reason. First being that they dont want to being replied "Luca who?" each time they try to push your profile. Second being that they dont need to explain to the composer everything about how things work in the show business. The established composer knows his thing and all the grey areas the show business has.

- Carrying on a composer with an established portfolio means for an agent the chance to negotiate on places where they havent been. So basically they can use the composer's name to become a better agent.

- An established composer is also able to provide immediate incomes

But, most of all, because the place where youre "heard" and people listen to your music to see how much youre good or not is already and deeply within the ship.


What i do? I try to remember all the people i've met in real life and how that is supposed to connect me with the show business. Actually its starting to work.

Hope you'll find your way as well.

Luca


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## gsilbers (Aug 6, 2011)

the thing is that you are saying a hollywood agent but u do not live in the US. 

are u getting TV and films from the US?

im saying cause an agent would need to know more about rates and lawyer type of stuff right?
and it would vary between countries. 
unless u have that agent only for US jobs and other ones around. 

but if u wanna shop around just go to 
http://www.gsamusic.com/home/

 


but in general, i think u are getting these answers cause unless u are a heavy hitter composer doing mid to high end films and tv scores then most composers do not have an agent. 

and you should ask composers who have agents, when was the time they decided to get agents cause it might be under specific circumstances where the agent can negotiate a way for you to get royalties from oversees, DVD and other back end stuff that makes money and its actually very complex stuff
that they might have a good handle of it.


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## synergy543 (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

35 posts but not a single post from someone with an agent?

The only thing I could add to this thread would be the suggestion that vi change its motto to:

"Composers bashing composers"

@Hbuus - If you think Guy hasn't contributed to the community here over the years with all the demos he's posted, you need to get your ears washed.


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## germancomponist (Aug 6, 2011)

Isn`t it pretty normal to have an agent?

(Also if you work as a ghost)


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

gsilbers @ Sat Aug 06 said:


> the thing is that you are saying a hollywood agent but u do not live in the US.
> 
> are u getting TV and films from the US?
> 
> ...




Thanks gsilbers! Useful info here.


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## midphase (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*



synergy543 @ Sat Aug 06 said:


> 35 posts but not a single post from someone with an agent?
> 
> The only thing I could add to this thread would be the suggestion that vi change its motto to:
> 
> "Composers bashing composers"



Who is bashing who? 

Guy asked some questions, he got some answers, and for whatever reason he decided to get all defensive for no apparent reason.

The not a single post from someone with an agent should tell you something. It's become incredibly difficult to get representation in this day and age. Most working composers do not have representation. I think on this entire forum there are perhaps 6-7 guys who are repped by legitimate agents (i.e. not their best buddy posing as an agent).

Most of us who work on network TV shows and films and earn a decent living at it have unsuccessfully knocked on agencies' doors for years. The bottom line is that they are simply not interested in taking on new clients unless they are part of some hit shows or films. 

The reason why many of us have chimed in with a bit of suspicion and concern is that Guy's scenario seems very unusual...so we advise some caution when dealing with whoever contacted him.

There is absolutely no need to get all defensive or to imply that we're questioning his "agent-worthiness" We are simply saying that it's a very unusual thing and that he should keep his eyes open before committing to something that he might regret later on.


Unfortunately with Guy this seems to be a pattern, he starts a thread and the moment that people respond with helpful but also inquisitive and sometime differing opinions, he gets all worked up.


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## synergy543 (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Kays, there's no reason you cannot adapt to the situation or try something different.

In the past, I've had people represent me as agents that were not through the normal channels and it was quite successful. I once hired a guy to scout for commercial and recording work and I've also had agencies that brought lots of commercial and corporate work.

I've known some documentary composers that have hired people to promote them as well and have had successful results, so its not only big Hollywood composers that can get help with promotion or representation. The whole world need not revolve around the narrow stereo-type image of the Blockbuster Hollywood composers. Even if you look at the Gorfaine agency's list of composers, many are not typical Hollywood composers!

I do know a little about the agency offering to represent Guy and it seems very reputable and legitimate as far as I can tell. And they do represent other composers. So I've suggested to Guy that he contact them for reference.

Sometimes you can do things differently than others an achieve seemingly impossible results. There are a lot of success stories like this in Hollywood too. People that nobody believed could have been successful have become stars.

But if you believe you can't do something, then you definitely can't.

Guy is taking the initaitive with some creative steps here and his question is a very good one - one that I would expect be of interest to other composers on vi too. So that's why I'm surprised about the real negative "can't do attitude" that permeates the previous page.


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## midphase (Aug 6, 2011)

Synergy (it'd be nice if you use your real name and location after almost 3000 posts)...

Once again...who is bashing who? The only negativity seems to be coming from Guy himself who is making negative assumptions about our responses.

All he would have needed to say is that this seems to be a legitimate agency who reps a bunch of other working composers and he probably just stuck the right vibe with one of their agents.

Instead he immediately went on the defensive by posting responses like this:

" it seems some people think my music isn't deserving of the attention of an agent just from my demo-reel and my website. And if it did, either he's incompetent, sounds suspicious, or desperate. "


Whereas nobody had ever implied anything of the sort.

Regarding what you say, I don't dispute that it's possible to get repped or get friends and coworkers to help get the word out...once again, who ever indicated otherwise? 

In closing, there is no bashing that I can see going on...just some overly sensitive egos with feathers who get too easily ruffled.


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## Mr. Anxiety (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

+1 to MidPhase.


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Yes, Midphase, that's how I am. I have good and bad. there are some people that chose to look at my bad side or quickly focus on it, and others, such as Synergy543, Terry Huud, Gunther, and many more who prefers to focus on my good side, I'd say it's as much an ego problem on the ones who keeps focusing on my negative side. When they feel challenged, they start talking about other people's egos. Somehow I never argue with Synergy (Gregory) and we email each other 20 times a day, I've known Terry Huud for 6 or 7 years, worked with him. Why don't you ask him how my ego is? I won't have my ego judge on a forum by some people who knows absolutely nothing about me. End of story.


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## Mr. Anxiety (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Wow...... what does one say to all of this?

Oh, I know...... it's what my teenage daughter says when it's not going her way....

Whatever


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Any reply wanting to challenge my comments with some unnecessary unpleasantries, is certainly not more mature. The same goes with people jumping in just to emphasize how I am this and that rather than sticking to the topic. This is the difference with some people.


Mr. Anxiety. When teenagers says "whatever", maybe they feel they can't get their message across and give up on the person they are talking to.


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## Mike Marino (Aug 6, 2011)

Guy, Colin (O'Malley) also has an agent. The information for who his representation is located on his website: www.colinomalley.com

You might want to hit him up as well.

- Mike


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## Brian Ralston (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Actually Guy...you should speak with BOTH Terry and his assistant Alan on the phone. I think that would be the most wise.


o[]) o[]) o[]) o[]) o[]) o[])

Also...is the agent's first name Otto by any chance? :?: o[])


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

No, not the name, he's definitely a reputable agent, not high profile agent, but then I'm no high profile composer. I will also talk to some of his clients. Terry thinks I have nothing to loose, but advised me to take the minimal deal in terms of time. 

I also just chatted with him on the phone for a good 30 min, talking about agents and managers. Some good stuff! Thanks Terry!


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## choc0thrax (Aug 6, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

I have an agent, 2 managers and an entertainment lawyer and I have no idea what any of them do individually but as a group they seem to interact and do stuff. The main draw of having these guys is the little gifts they'll get you at christmas like flip cams or sports jerseys etc.


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## Brian Ralston (Aug 7, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*



Guy Bacos @ Sat Aug 06 said:


> I also just chatted with him on the phone for a good 30 min, talking about agents and managers. Some good stuff! Thanks Terry!



You should talk with Alan too. Make sure to call back and set up a time to do that. He would probably have a good yet different perspective of what he sees being Terry's longtime assistant and all. 

o[])


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## hbuus (Aug 7, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*



midphase @ Sat Aug 06 said:


> Unfortunately with Guy this seems to be a pattern, he starts a thread and the moment that people respond with helpful but also inquisitive and sometime differing opinions, he gets all worked up.



+1


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## hbuus (Aug 7, 2011)

Oh, btw. and Synergy:

Thank you so much for you private message saying I'm a sick man.

I always appreciate getting fan mail


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 7, 2011)

An agent is good, a good attitude is better, thick skin when faced with criticism is best.


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 7, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Strangely enough, I only have this problem practically on this forum alone, nothing personal about this forum or the members, but it seems to get the worst of me, in the real world and my relation with friends or directors or co-workers, I enjoy very healthy rapports. If you doubt this me, call me, find out for yourself, and you could see the real me, not what you read on a forum from strangers who knows absolutely nothing about you. Don't go judging someone through forums and by some hiding behind their screen. This is a virtual world here.


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## germancomponist (Aug 7, 2011)

Guy, I am sure we both would have a lot of fun, sitting in a pub and drinkink some beers.... .


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 7, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

I have an agent (or rather an agency) here in town (http://www.omada.ca/). We've been together for a dozen years now or so. I didn't go into it earlier today because my wife and I were vacationing in beautiful Vermont and Mass, USA, and we just got back.

Generally, I hear about a potential gig before they do, but they do the negotiating, go over the contract to make sure I'm not getting had, and they follow up on payments (that's the best part).

If you want more detail$, PM me.


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## poseur (Aug 8, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

i have an agent.

10% is not what i pay --- i pay 15%,
though there is some minor, negotiable flexibility when it comes to "package"-deals.

personally speaking:
i wouldn't sign any temporally-oriented contract w/an agency, though,
unless there were some material & substantial guarantees made to me.
i'm with my 3rd real agent, now
--- this is the longest i've been w/any agency, quite a few years, at this point --- 
but have never signed a contract,
other than to allow my agent to process payments.

actually, i'm not sure that _*any*_ of my composer-friends have ever signed agency-contracts.


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 8, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

Ah, someone with an agent, finally!

Poseur, in terms of negotiating on your behalf, does that make it worthwhile, on that alone? 

I understand clearly his primary goal, in working for you, is the negotiating part, but since i'm hearing many versions of this, can you tell me if your agent is ever involved, one way or another, in getting work for you?

Do you have a manager Poseur? if so, can you share his involvement in your career? Specifically for a film composer, how will a manager be helpful to you? Can a manager and agent work in sync? 


ps I don't mean to be rude to others, and all the previous comments are appreciated, but I'm only seeking feedback from people who currently have agents or managers, because I want to hear about their experience. My fault, I should of clarified this in the topic title.


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## Stephen Baysted (Aug 8, 2011)

I'll PM you Guy.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 8, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*



Guy Bacos @ 8/8/2011 said:


> Ah, someone with an agent, finally!



Did you miss my post above? FWIW, I can give you a Montrealer's persective...


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## midphase (Aug 8, 2011)

Bah...you damn Canadians...always out to take over the World!


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 8, 2011)

One doobie at a time!


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## poseur (Aug 8, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*



Guy Bacos @ Mon Aug 08 said:


> Ah, someone with an agent, finally!



there are def other folks w/agents, here!
see ned b.'s post, above.



Guy Bacos @ Mon Aug 08 said:


> Poseur, in terms of negotiating on your behalf, does that make it worthwhile, on that alone?


i think so, buuuuuut.....
in the current economic climate of film-making,
it is, in fact, hard to know the answer to that, anymore;
still, yes: i should think so.

of course, there can arise some other good reasons for engaging an agent, i think. 




Guy Bacos @ Mon Aug 08 said:


> I understand clearly his primary goal, in working for you, is the negotiating part, but since i'm hearing many versions of this, can you tell me if your agent is ever involved, one way or another, in getting work for you?


let's be clear about this:
his primary goal, in working for me, is to make money.

certainly, my agent is involved in seeking new & (hopefully) suitable projects;
and, he's directly involved in maintaining some amount of visibility for both my material & my name.



Guy Bacos @ Mon Aug 08 said:


> Do you have a manager Poseur? if so, can you share his involvement in your career? Specifically for a film composer, how will a manager be helpful to you? Can a manager and agent work in sync?



i had a manager..... a great one, a real character in the film-world,
before i had an agent;
he established my fee-scale w/the studios, on his own.
sadly?
we fell out (over something substantial, to me: partially, the issue of "agents"), and i walked away from him.
he passed away, just a few months ago..... too young, imo.

a manager is only as good as his/her stability, strength, number of his contacts,
and motivation, in direct regards to your career;
as with agents,
it can certainly behoove a composer to develop either managerial or agential relationships
with those who are, somehow, better-known "quantities" than you may be.
i think.

there are managers & agents who def can & will work in sync;
however, seeing proof of that (in advance) is most helpful.....
since "talk is cheap", imo.

however, there are also agents who can (and might) function managerially, as well.....
should you find one of them?,
your composer's share of your own income-pie will be one-slice-_less-small_.


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## Peter Alexander (Aug 8, 2011)

From Film Music Mag
http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=32
http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=90
http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=8075


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## Peter Alexander (Aug 8, 2011)

I posted some articles for you from Film Music Mag and if you PM me I'll refer you to someone to talk to.

For many in LA, once the composer gets the gig, an agent is often brought in to finish negotiating the deal. However, what's often not discussed is that some agents do take the gig you worked for and assigned to them and assign it to other composers in their stable. 

In California, the agent can actually be a registered agent, or an attorney.

In California, an agent must be registered with the state. I forget which agency right now, but again, I can point you to someone who knows. 

Congratulations on finding someone who wants to represent you.

PA


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks all for enlightening me with your experience and knowledge.

Poseur, I saw Ned's post, but his situation was slightly different with agencies. 

However, I do plan to have conversations with Ned and Kays since they are offering it, to learn more. Hopefully Kays doesn't have more elephant gifts for me. :wink: 

I appreciate some pm I've been getting from composers with agents.

On my end, I've been talking and checking out the agent's clients, so far, looks very descent. I checked out the their IMDB credits, they all have a pretty loaded stack of film credits. That doesn't necessarily mean much, but I can see they are all busy composers.

I remember something that great guitarist Michael Laucke once told me, when you have someone who really loves and appreciate what you do, and want to represent you, hang on to these people because they are very rare. So I would think I'm better off with an agent in which this is the case. Not saying this should be the only criteria in evaluating an agent, but I would think should be at the top of the list. Any thoughts about this?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 8, 2011)

It's like buying shoes: you're not necessarily going to find the right ones in the first store. But it's good to try some so you can get an idea of which fit best.


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## Mr. Anxiety (Aug 8, 2011)

> I remember something that great guitarist Michael Laucke once told me, when you have someone who really loves and appreciate what you do, and want to represent you, hang on to these people because they are very rare. So I would think I'm better off with an agent in which this is the case. Not saying this should be the only criteria in evaluating an agent, but I would think should be at the top of the list. Any thoughts about this?



Judging by your needs as displayed in this forum....... I think someone who loves and appreciates what you do is going to be the best fit for you, using Ned's "shoe" metaphor.


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 8, 2011)

Mr. Anxiety @ Mon Aug 08 said:


> > I remember something that great guitarist Michael Laucke once told me, when you have someone who really loves and appreciate what you do, and want to represent you, hang on to these people because they are very rare. So I would think I'm better off with an agent in which this is the case. Not saying this should be the only criteria in evaluating an agent, but I would think should be at the top of the list. Any thoughts about this?
> 
> 
> 
> Judging by your needs as displayed in this forum....... I think someone who loves and appreciates what you do is going to be the best fit for you, using Ned's "shoe" metaphor.



Of course I'd want that, but I don't think any artist would feel any differently from I do about this. If someone really believes in what you do, he will go the extra mile.


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 8, 2011)

Mr. Anxiety @ Mon Aug 08 said:


> Judging by your needs as displayed in this forum.......



Also Mr anxiety, judging from your last posts, earlier, not flattering to me, it looks like you're saying I have special attentive needs..............

Please, I don't want to have anymore comments about anything personal, about my character, my special needs, about how I take things too personal. I will evaluate my "needs" on my own time.

Just stick to general advice. I'd appreciate that a lot.


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## Mr. Anxiety (Aug 8, 2011)

:!:


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## jeffc (Aug 8, 2011)

I think if you have someone who 'wants' to rep you, you should seriously consider going with them. What have you got to lose? Just taking meetings with other agents, if you could get them, to try and find someone better is probably not the best tactic. Sure you may find another guy who may represent you, just to piss off the other guy who actually sought you out. I wouldn't count on anything after that.

In the end, you want to be with someone that you're up on their list of guys. What good is it to be on the roster at the biggest agency if nobody pays attention to you and you're a low priority?

I've been with a few of the big ones and had good and not so good experiences with all. Not their fault/not mine. Agents are terribly overworked and all have too many clients, some working some not. Every day for them is a juggling act. You have to walk the fine line of staying in their face enough so they don't forget about you, but also realize that they have multiple clients that they are juggling. It's just really so many factors on who gets hot, who get's what jobs. If you're with the right guy and happen to get hot, I'm sure you'll think they're the greatest agent in the world.

I do kind of disagree with people saying that agents don't get you work. In my experience, it's kind of a partnership, all working together to further your career. Sure you may get jobs from contacts that you worked and they will commission that. But I have definitely gotten jobs from my agent that I would have never known about without. This again goes back to my point of going with someone who wants you. That's what you really want to find, and it sounds like you may have found that person. I would say, optimistically, proceed with caution but take a chance on the guy, before he moves on to someone else.

Best of luck...


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 8, 2011)

jeffc @ Mon Aug 08 said:


> I think if you have someone who 'wants' to rep you, you should seriously consider going with them. What have you got to lose? Just taking meetings with other agents, if you could get them, to try and find someone better is probably not the best tactic. Sure you may find another guy who may represent you, just to piss off the other guy who actually sought you out. I wouldn't count on anything after that.
> 
> In the end, you want to be with someone that you're up on their list of guys. What good is it to be on the roster at the biggest agency if nobody pays attention to you and you're a low priority?
> 
> ...



Excellent feedback Jeff. Thanks! All makes sense with the homework I've been doing. Indeed they have a lot of clients and I'm sure some don't get the deserved time they wished. I'm not a high profile composer and not looking for high profile films at the moment, I want to slowly work my way up, and without the pressure, so as long as this agent is safe, and from what I see he certainly looks honest, it makes the decision easier.

He is also the first agent to approach me, and I know I have no obligation to him, but I like to show my appreciation of that, especially if there won't be much difference with another agent "for the fit of my feet".


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## Allegra (Aug 9, 2011)

Well reading down this incredibly facinating thread has been an education. 
Of course you want to have an agent...so agree with Jeff. And it appears *they do *find and field work offers for you. 
I find it so disconcerting that so many of you composers are so negative with your collegues here who are genuinly asking for input and feedback. Just the facts are what's important here regarding Guy Bacos's simple question. I personally thought that this was the purpose of the forum...to aid and assist each other. Apparently not. :( 

Well, I for one hope Mr. Bacos does make his connection. And by the energy and focus that he's putting into this one...it'll happen.

Good luck Guy!

Allegra o-[][]-o


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## charlieclouser (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*



gsilbers @ Fri Aug 05 said:


> i dunno..
> 
> its been my understanding that an agent just works when you have work.
> 
> ...



I've never "networked at places they hang out" - I can't imagine that. I mean.. how would one even go about such a thing? Is there some bar or restaurant that directors frequent? Or do you mean things like film awards ceremonies and conferences? 

Anyway, GuyBacos -

When a director want to hear some new music, they're going to call a music supervisor, a music editor, or their buddy at one of the agencies and say, "I'm sick of the Remote Control crowd - who ya got that's fresh?" Just hope your agency is one of the ones they call - which in LA means there's probably like five or ten. Gorfain-Schwartz (and now that Amos Newman has jumped ship, William Morris is coming on strong), Kraft-Engel, First Artists, Evolution, and probably a half-dozen other boutique agencies with small rosters. 

Music supervisors and music editors are instrumental in helping to assemble temp scores, by providing libraries of temp cues for projects, and that might be a way to get a director's attention - "hey, this cue in the temp is cool, who did that?". Music supervisors/editors are probably more approachable than directors/producers/agents and are always looking to increase their library of cues to throw at the wall. Maybe one approach, besides trying to contact the agencies I've named, is to scour IMBD for the names of music editors and music supervisors who have done projects that you think your music might have been right for, and hit them up with demo reels - they might stick something of yours into a temp score that a director falls in love with.

o/~ 

I reckon that any agent that "just works when you have work" is not worth the wireless minutes they use. Maybe my LAWYER only "works when I have work"; but my agents ABSOLUTELY get me work and are shaking the trees continually for projects that might be right for me, while I'm spending weeks downloading Tonehammer libraries and building templates. That's the ONLY reason they exist! Every few months I get a printout of upcoming film and tv projects that they think might be right for me, with the titles, plot synopsis, studio info, production budget, and names of the stars, director, producers, showrunners, etc. so that in the off-chance that I actually recognize the names of anyone, or god forbid have actually worked with them or met them in the past, we can triangulate an attack plan. The last printout I got had nearly 60 projects on the list. I thought maybe half of those would be things I would like to do, and of those, maybe a quarter were things I'd actually have a shot at doing a good job on - which means if I get one or two gigs on that list I'll be lucky. I get these lists three or four times a year. A composer friend of mine who's at another agency keeps telling me that his agent calls him EVERY DAY, and he insists that he's not exaggerating one bit. If my agent called me every day I'd go crazy! I'd be like, "leave me alone, I'm building templates here!" 

:mrgreen: 

As to all the stuff about agents finding a way to negotiate overseas royalties and all that jazz, no... that's for your accountant/business manager and lawyer to double-team with BMI/ASCAP on. My agents don't do any of that. They DO negotiate the up-front fees, but they collect 10 percent on ONLY those fees, and do NOT receive a commission on any royalties, whereas my lawyer and business manager are each on board for 5 percent of EVERY dollar I make, royalties included - so the job of insuring I get paid for performance royalties from Auckland to Zimbabwe is entirely in THEIR lap (mostly the business manager's, with the lawyer on call to look over deals). The business manager makes sure the money is on time, and the lawyer makes sure the deal is legit and all the legal bases are covered on both the front and back ends - for five percent of gross each - and no hourly billings, ever. THEY are the ones that have a vested interest in scouring the quarterly BMI statements to make sure nothing's missing - my agents aren't even allowed to SEE my BMI statements - seriously, no joke. That's the whole point - if the agents could sit back and collect on royalties from re-runs of old TV shows I've done, what motivation would they have to get me more work? The fact that they ONLY get paid a commission on up-front fees is EXACTLY what keeps them looking for more fresh jobs. Separating the people who get you work from the back-end money is absolutely critical. I would never work with an agent who wanted to commission my back-end royalties. That would be like a band letting the company that books their tours receive royalties from their radio airplay and back catalog - it would never happen.

My agents maintain a library of my past work, know it intimately, and hand-assemble demo reels for specific projects based on their knowledge of my work and what type of projects I'd be interested it, and the taste and past work of the director/producers in question. They also get my library of cues into the hands of music editors and supervisors so that my stuff shows up in temp scores for directors to fall in love with - many music editors and supervisors are represented by the same agencies that rep composers, so that's a no-brainer. I've definitely gotten gigs because "everybody loved your cues in the temp". Since I own a lot of my own masters (a rare occurence), my agents have also gotten me a lot of licenses for the use of my music in trailers, and are always begging me to write more cues that they can flog around town for this purpose. My agents maintain a web presence with my up-to-date credits, and click-to-listen bits of cues. I don't have a website, a youtube channel, a facebook, or a twitter - I don't do LinkedIn or send friend requests to directors whose work I like - that's the agent's job: to make, cultivate, and maintain contacts and relationships throughout the industry with the people that are in a position to hire their clients.

I got hooked up with my agents when I was working as a programmer/ghost writer for a composer who was a client of theirs - a gig came along that we all knew was more right for me than for my boss, so with my boss's blessing and encouragement they pitched me for it, I demo'ed for it, and I got it. Cut to ten years later and we're still in bed together - and I'm still good friends with my former boss.

o-[][]-o 

Anyway, who's got time to hang around directors and producers or even keep track of all the players in that game? Not to mention build a darn website or send out demo reels? Not me... I can barely keep track of which Tonehammer libraries I've already bought - but I do know someone who DOES have the time, and is even being paid to do so: 

AGENTS.

My job is to make the donuts. 

The agents' job is to hang up the sign out in front of the store, find someone who's hungry for donuts, and negotiate the price for a dozen-box.

The lawyer and business manager make sure that the people that ate the donuts actually pay for them.

o[])


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## midphase (Aug 9, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*



charlieclouser @ Tue Aug 09 said:


> my agents ABSOLUTELY get me work and are shaking the trees continually for projects that might be right for me, while I'm spending weeks downloading Tonehammer libraries and building templates. That's the ONLY reason they exist!




It also does help if your first name happens to be Charlie, and your last name Clouser.

:lol:


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## charlieclouser (Aug 9, 2011)

Well, thank you, but even still, my agents got on the stick and found me my first gig when I was just another ghost-writing, assistant-programming, ex-sideman from a dysfunctional band that hadn't put out a record in years! Somehow they convinced a network show to take a risk on me, and then they did it again the next season, and the season after that. I had no contacts, no demo reel, no idea where to begin...


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks Charlie, Allegra, Jeffc and Peter, and to some pm I've received of composers with agents. You guys are truly the inspiration I need, not just the technical content of your messages but how optimistic it comes out at the end, while being realistic. Artists feed from this stuff. 


Thanks for taking this time!


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## Markus S (Aug 10, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*

@charlieclouser : That's a great post! Thank you for sharing your experience with us.


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 10, 2011)

*Re: Film composer agents questions*



Markus S @ Wed Aug 10 said:


> @charlieclouser : That's a great post! Thank you for sharing your experience with us.



+1


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## stonzthro (Aug 10, 2011)

One of the most interesting posts I've read in a long time!


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## charlieclouser (Aug 10, 2011)

You're welcome guys! o-[][]-o


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 11, 2011)

I got enough feedback to help make my decision, thanks, and so I signed the contract.


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