# Which is your go-to drumkit sample library?



## Resoded (Mar 15, 2021)

Question in the title, which is your go-to drumkit sample library and why?


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## X-Bassist (Mar 15, 2021)

Addictive Drums. Great sounds mixed out of the box, but they can be unmixed or mixed and matched as needed (many times I use the hat from one kit, snare from another,.... and make a combo kit). Great controls and layout. Plus the midi transform section can solo/mute any piece, change velocity ranges of the midi, and auto sync/stop-start with the DAW (even has half time, double time, triplet time,...). It really does it all, and is laid out so well I’ve never had to look at a manual.

For those that are brand new and don’t like mixing drums, or those experienced who like to remix drums (like me) it’s a dream. Lots of kits to choose from, so you only have to pick the ones you like. AND they regularly have half price sales... what more could you want?😄 Brings the initial cost (with your choice of any 2 kits) to $90, with each additional kit about $40. Between sales and specials I’ve pickedup 14 kits for about $400 total over 4 years. So happy with it and def my goto for drums (even bought the perc Kit and electronic kit, they rock!)


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## Nimrod7 (Mar 15, 2021)

I own addictive drums. Really good customization options, beautiful sound. 

I want to own Superior Drummer 3!


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## el-bo (Mar 15, 2021)

BFD3 and NI Abbey Road 70's 'Tight'. Also have a couple of small boutique drum-kits from LoopsDeLaCreme. So, ore like go-tos


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## daan1412 (Mar 15, 2021)

Superior Drummer 3 - great samples, highly flexible, many mics, all the mixing tools within the plugin and lots of possibilities for expanding (addons). It also has some cool midi features and while I don't like using existing midi patterns, they are good as research material for composers who don't play drums.


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## Sarah Mancuso (Mar 15, 2021)

GetGood Drums. I currently own their "Modern & Massive" and "Modern Fusion" libraries, and both are fanstastic. I also own BFD3, but I find it much more challenging to get a polished sound from.


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## Steve Lum (Mar 15, 2021)

SD3 - have been in the Toontrack ecosystem for many years. I also use Musical Sampling boutique kits for specific cases. I have been eyeing GGD for a while, just haven't got the oomph to jump in that pond yet.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 15, 2021)

I’m now a huge fan of Apple Drummer


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 15, 2021)

Was using addictive drummer and went to SD3, night and day difference, I love it...now I want that Decades expansion on sale !


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## Rick McGuire (Mar 15, 2021)

Superior Drummer 3. Insane amount of detail. Great mixing capabilities in the plug-in. There's also a lot of midi content if you're into that sort of thing.


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## DovesGoWest (Mar 15, 2021)

I produce some EDM stuff and rather than using a "kit" type vst and midi i just use splice and put together my own kits using samples. Then you have pretty much unlimited access to what every sounding drums you need


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## toddkreuz (Mar 15, 2021)

Depends on what you're doing and what sound you want.


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## dpasdernick (Mar 15, 2021)

Employ a real drummer.

Pros. Realistic drum sounds and performance.

Cons. They’ll drink all your beer and steal your girlfriend.


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## Wedge (Mar 15, 2021)

BFD3


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Mar 15, 2021)

I got Addictive Drums because it's quite affordable, simple and sounds good enough. I looked into other drum samples as well, but none of them sounded any more convincing to me or anything, so I never felt the need to get anything else. Some of them sounded too produced, which I dislike.


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## Wally Garten (Mar 15, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I’m now a huge fan of Apple Drummer



Same. With tweaking, it's really good, and definitely my starting point. I just love the sound of a lot of the Apple kits.

Otherwise, I've been doing a lot with Loops de la Creme lately.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Mar 15, 2021)

At the moment, the kits in Cineperc and LA Sessions do the job for me.


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## TracksInTheBox (Mar 15, 2021)

I've owned EZDrummer, Superior and Slate, as well as some Native Instruments kits. Demoed BFD3. I ended up with Addictive Drums. I think of it as being between EZ and Superior in terms of flexibility, and to me, it just sounds better than all of them. Superior just has way too many options. I don't need bleeds from every drum in every other drum channel. I would be doing my best to eliminate that if I was recording a real kit. Addictive has dry kits if you want it, many great sounding processed kits if you prefer, and great sounding effects built in to make your own sounds. Full MIDI mapping, too, which comes in hands in many situations.


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## toddkreuz (Mar 15, 2021)

Metal = Get Good Drums Modern and Massive
Rock = Supoerior drummer Indiependant/Avatar/NY studios/Custom and Vintage
Modern Country/ Alt rock= Steven Slate Drums Blackbird and Chris Lorde Alge expansions
I use Nicky Romero Kick for making custom low end for all kick drums.


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## Ryan Fultz (Mar 15, 2021)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> GetGood Drums. I currently own their "Modern & Massive" and "Modern Fusion" libraries, and both are fanstastic. I also own BFD3, but I find it much more challenging to get a polished sound from.


Coming from a druming background, these sound amazing and feel like a drummer was involved in the design process, which often doesn't feel that way with drum libraries.


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## dylanmixer (Mar 15, 2021)

Addictive Drums is insanely realistic sounding and customizable.


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## marius_dm (Mar 15, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I’m now a huge fan of Apple Drummer


I have SD3 with the Decades sdx but I think the drum samples in logic’s drummer sound more organic (something about the smoother attack I think)


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## ashX (Mar 15, 2021)

Atm Addictive Drums but want to get GGD Invasion


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## Casiquire (Mar 15, 2021)

I was going to say that i "second" the Superior Drummer 3 suggestion, but at this point I'm like "seventh"ing it. It's fantastic. It's well recorded, natural and unprocessed, good selection of kits that are super easy to swap out (you can swap one snare for another while your drums are still playing, for example), and the features are pretty fantastic. Tap out a rhythm and see which included loops fit; upload a drum recording and it turns it to midi; etc there's so much packed into it.


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## ed buller (Mar 15, 2021)

There is no comparison to "Superior Drummer 3".....................except a real drummer, loads of great kits, excellent mic collection, awesome engineers and the best drum rooms on the planet......

best

ed


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## DSmolken (Mar 15, 2021)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> GetGood Drums


Worst name other than the "Daily Preset" practice in Pianoteq, though. Like, yeah, yeah, I don't practice as much as I "should", I know. I got samples to edit!

Anyway. For electronic stuff, it's oddly enough some free Wave Alchemy samples of the modern MFB Tanzbar drum machine. For non-electronic stuff, the Drumdrops Motown kit would be it if it wasn't, you know, totally the wrong style for most stuff. For more of a middle-of-the-road drums sound, Tofuto Handmade Drummer Pro would have to be it. It's not too rock and samples a very nice Canopus kit.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Mar 15, 2021)

DSmolken said:


> Worst name other than the "Daily Preset" practice in Pianoteq, though. Like, yeah, yeah, I don't practice as much as I "should", I know. I got samples to edit!


Dude's actual name is Getgood. Seriously. 








Adam "Nolly" Getgood (@nollyggd) • Instagram photos and videos


106K Followers, 744 Following, 664 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Adam "Nolly" Getgood (@nollyggd)




www.instagram.com


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## Casiquire (Mar 15, 2021)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Dude's actual name is Getgood. Seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


...ok that's actually amazing


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## Trash Panda (Mar 15, 2021)

Started with the metal drums in Addictive Drums 2, slowly moved to the Studio Pop for proper Sonor Drums fanboism.

Now beginning to move to MODO drums as I get more comfortable customizing what is THE kit in my mind’s eye.

I tried to like GGD Modern and Massive, but it’s just not doing it for me.


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## Arbee (Mar 15, 2021)

Another Addictive Drums fan here, great raw sounds to work with and easy to get different dynamics and nuances into the performance (I tend to play things in). I also have Battery 4 and Damage for less traditional kit purposes.


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## Robo Rivard (Mar 15, 2021)

Superior Drummer 3 here. Orchestral Percussion SDX sounds pretty good too, even if the mapping is not like your standard libraries.


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## Paul Cardon (Mar 15, 2021)

X-Bassist said:


> Addictive Drums. Great sounds mixed out of the box, but they can be unmixed or mixed and matched as needed (many times I use the hat from one kit, snare from another,.... and make a combo kit). Great controls and layout. Plus the midi transform section can solo/mute any piece, change velocity ranges of the midi, and auto sync/stop-start with the DAW (even has half time, double time, triplet time,...). It really does it all, and is laid out so well I’ve never had to look at a manual.
> 
> For those that are brand new and don’t like mixing drums, or those experienced who like to remix drums (like me) it’s a dream. Lots of kits to choose from, so you only have to pick the ones you like. AND they regularly have half price sales... what more could you want?😄 Brings the initial cost (with your choice of any 2 kits) to $90, with each additional kit about $40. Between sales and specials I’ve pickedup 14 kits for about $400 total over 4 years. So happy with it and def my goto for drums (even bought the perc Kit and electronic kit, they rock!)


+1 to Addictive Drums if you want lots of mixing and routing flexibility, deep sampling, lots of kit options in lots of recording spaces. I use the jazz brush kit ALL the time.

HOWEVER, while there are lots of awesome and unique mix presets for each kit, it's not the best option to just get to a specific custom sound really quick. It can be more debilitating than helpful if you aren't used to mixing real drums.


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## pawelmorytko (Mar 15, 2021)

Speaking of drum kits, any idea which library might be good for this kind of sound? Just seems like a pretty standard drum kit I guess, but I know some are more suited for different genres, and I really don't know what genre this even is...


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## schrodinger1612 (Mar 15, 2021)

I’m happy with my EZX expansions...don’t feel the need to upgrade to Superior Drummer.


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## Billy Palmer (Mar 15, 2021)

I love John Meyer's soft drums, they're recorded beautifully and work in so many unusual contexts:





samples — Jon Meyer







www.jonmeyermusic.com





I've used NI instruments abbey road stuff and even logic drummer for some recent projects and been more than happy with the results.


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## Mark Schmieder (Mar 16, 2021)

Decades SDX for Superior Drummer 3.

Since its release, I retired everything else. I used to have dozens of drum products and libraries, all of them a struggle for me to get the sound I wanted. Decades is everything I ever needed or wanted in a drum library; it covers all of my bases regardless of genre. Sits in the mix so great, whether heavy or light music, large or small instrumentation. A work of genius for sure.


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## from_theashes (Mar 16, 2021)

Ryan Fultz said:


> Coming from a druming background, these sound amazing and feel like a drummer was involved in the design process, which often doesn't feel that way with drum libraries.


There is... Nolly Getgood is the producer and former bass player of the band „Periphery“ and created the first GGD-library with Periphery-drummer Matt Halpern (still available as „Matt Halpern Signature Pack“). And I think they used these samples on their first major album. Both are incredible musicians and tech-nerds... just as the other guys in Periphery who created signature guitars and amps for well known companies.
I love Getgood Drums and use their P4- and Modern Fusion- kits.


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## chopin4525 (Mar 16, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> Decades SDX for Superior Drummer 3.
> 
> Since its release, I retired everything else. I used to have dozens of drum products and libraries, all of them a struggle for me to get the sound I wanted. Decades is everything I ever needed or wanted in a drum library; it covers all of my bases regardless of genre. Sits in the mix so great, whether heavy or light music, large or small instrumentation. A work of genius for sure.


I have to check this one because I completely missed its release: it even includes brushes and mallets! I thought the last SD library to feature them was Roots in version 2. Time to upgrade?


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## BezO (Mar 16, 2021)

SD3 when I'm ready to tweak. AD2 for more immediate good sounds.




Pablocrespo said:


> ...now I want that Decades expansion on sale !


Maybe when SD4 is released. From what I've seen, current generation SDXs never go on sale.


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## David Kudell (Mar 16, 2021)

SD3 with the Death & Darkness SDX is my go-to, has the exact kit from Metallica’s Black album, which sounds so good.


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## Alex Fraser (Mar 16, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I’m now a huge fan of Apple Drummer


Yeah, it's my "go to" as it covers most of the bases. Being able to mix the kit at the Logic desk instead of fiddling around in a plugin window is something I appreciate. I sometimes wish the room was a little larger though.

Out of interest, does anyone know where the kits were recorded?


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Mar 16, 2021)

Addictive Drums are probably my favorite.
I also like the Abbey Road stuff, StraightAhead Samples stuff, and the kits in Project Sam’s Swing/More. I recently discovered the FluffyAudio Spaghetti Western kit is really nice as well. It sounds a lot like the Red Dead 2 drums.

(I should really look more at the kits in Logic. It’s easy to forget about all the good instruments in Logic!)


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## easyrider (Mar 16, 2021)

My go to is my 1972 Hayman Vibrasonic.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Mar 16, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Out of interest, does anyone know where the kits were recorded?


I’d love to know this as well. Also, does the Logic team record the instruments themselves or do they outsource to other companies, like Native Instruments.


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## EvgenyEmelyanov (Mar 16, 2021)

My favorite drums are from GetGoodDrums and IWantThatSound

hands down.. imo, best quality.


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## stixman (Mar 16, 2021)

Superior Drummer 3 is my goto followed by Abbey road drums. There is no competition imo...nearly 40 years playing kits and 20 years Vdrums.


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## bvaughn0402 (Mar 16, 2021)

DovesGoWest said:


> I produce some EDM stuff and rather than using a "kit" type vst and midi i just use splice and put together my own kits using samples. Then you have pretty much unlimited access to what every sounding drums you need


Do you have any recommendations for "go to" sets in Splice for EDM or Hip/Hop Trap? You know ... the REALLY good 808 stuff on there? Or perhaps some Linn Drum? It seems there are 1,000 different 808 samples on there, and I can't imagine they are all the same quality.


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## jononotbono (Mar 16, 2021)

Superior Drummer 2 at the moment.


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## Alex Fraser (Mar 16, 2021)

bvaughn0402 said:


> Do you have any recommendations for "go to" sets in Splice for EDM or Hip/Hop Trap? You know ... the REALLY good 808 stuff on there? Or perhaps some Linn Drum? It seems there are 1,000 different 808 samples on there, and I can't imagine they are all the same quality.


https://www.wavealchemy.co.uk for quality samples.
You've got Logic - the new "Drum Synth" does a great, floor busting 808 style kick..


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## DovesGoWest (Mar 16, 2021)

bvaughn0402 said:


> Do you have any recommendations for "go to" sets in Splice for EDM or Hip/Hop Trap? You know ... the REALLY good 808 stuff on there? Or perhaps some Linn Drum? It seems there are 1,000 different 808 samples on there, and I can't imagine they are all the same quality.


LOL i know what you mean i have a local sample library of around 10000 sounds now including most of the Vengeance stuff. Personally i just search for stuff and layer things together along with creative EQ to get the sounds i am looking for. There is no single brand or collection i rely on i just search using the app and then click through results on the first page.

If you have a large local collection i did experiment with XLN Audio XO VST which groups all of your samples into similar sounding ones and presents them in a map like display


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## Ryan Fultz (Mar 16, 2021)

from_theashes said:


> There is... Nolly Getgood is the producer and former bass player of the band „Periphery“ and created the first GGD-library with Periphery-drummer Matt Halpern (still available as „Matt Halpern Signature Pack“). And I think they used these samples on their first major album. Both are incredible musicians and tech-nerds... just as the other guys in Periphery who created signature guitars and amps for well known companies.
> I love Getgood Drums and use their P4- and Modern Fusion- kits.


Oh, I'm very aware, Matt was and still is a big influence on me as a drummer.


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## Tom Ferguson (Mar 16, 2021)

For metal and rock, GGD for sure! They do have quite a stylised sound due to the way they are played and recorded, so they might not be for everyone if a softer, less aggressive and modern sound is desired.

(Matt Halpern/P4 for modern metal and M+M for more rock/heavy Rock, though either can work for both quite well)


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## wst3 (Mar 16, 2021)

If I am in a hurry then I use RealiDrums, very good sound for not a lot of effort on my part.

If I have the time it is Superior3 all the way - I've been using their libaries since the days of DKFH on Giga. Superior was an eye opener, Superior 2 was so much easier to use, I figured they were done, and now Superior 3, and some really amazing libraries to boot.

I could probably use Decades and not want for more, but since they have more I do use the Roots and Music City kits a lot. The NYC kits are awesome as well, just not the kind of thing I'm writing at the moment.


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## SupremeFist (Mar 16, 2021)

dpasdernick said:


> Employ a real drummer.
> 
> Pros. Realistic drum sounds and performance.
> 
> Cons. They’ll drink all your beer and steal your girlfriend.


Nah, that's lead guitarists. The drummer will be too drunk to steal your girlfriend.


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## bvaughn0402 (Mar 16, 2021)

Tom Ferguson said:


> For metal and rock, GGD for sure! They do have quite a stylised sound due to the way they are played and recorded, so they might not be for everyone if a softer, less aggressive and modern sound is desired.
> 
> (Matt Halpern/P4 for modern metal and M+M for more rock/heavy Rock, though either can work for both quite well)


Thanks for these suggestions. I'll have to check them out. They sound good. Are you using any of their grooves or MIDI packs?


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## BasariStudios (Mar 16, 2021)

Steven Slate Drums 5 and Groove Agent 5.


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## bvaughn0402 (Mar 16, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> https://www.wavealchemy.co.uk for quality samples.
> You've got Logic - the new "Drum Synth" does a great, floor busting 808 style kick..


I'm very tempted by Wave Alechemy. It seems like a nice selection of samples. Would you recommend it highly?


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## DSmolken (Mar 16, 2021)

For "general purpose" drum machine stuff, and not chasing the flavor of the week in a very specific style, Wave Alchemy is great. I'm also tempted by the Soniccouture Electro-Acoustic for another take on the drum machine thing, but yeah, Wave Alchemy do this stuff very well.

That Sound is also great for the processed acoustic drums for hip-hop and pop, if you're looking for something that's less of the "human drummer playing a drum kit" style. Hangar is a really fun one, but Sterloid would probably be the most suited for a general-purpose go-to.


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## jmauz (Mar 16, 2021)

If you're referring to purely accurate acoustic drum samples, Superior Drummer 3 surpasses any of the other libraries out there both in terms of sound quality and flexibility.


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## dzilizzi (Mar 16, 2021)

I have SD3, EZ Drummer 2 and Addictive Drums 2. Mostly I use AD2 because I have a lot of kits and midi for it. But really, I use it because it is really easy to get the sound I want with it and it sounds good. I do more pop/rock music. 

Also? I hate click tracks. They annoy me unless I can change the sounds out with something like cowbells. First thing I do is lay down a kick/snare track on the beat. so much nicer than a click track for me. I usually use EZ Drummer for that.


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## Paul Cardon (Mar 16, 2021)

Billy Palmer said:


> I love John Meyer's soft drums, they're recorded beautifully and work in so many unusual contexts:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


THANK YOU! This is such a stupid simple little kit, but it's free and sounds amazing (that snare is tasty). Have a project going right now that this'll be perfect for.


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## Alex Fraser (Mar 16, 2021)

bvaughn0402 said:


> I'm very tempted by Wave Alechemy. It seems like a nice selection of samples. Would you recommend it highly?


Yep. The site has a fairly large selection of free samples (too many, actually I think!) so you can always sample the wares.


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## Stringtree (Mar 16, 2021)

BFD3. It has a map to my physical Roland drum kit, has a rich mixing environment, preset patterns for all sorts of genres, and sounds like drums. 

My drummer friend would tell me to switch out a tom, cymbal, snare, whatever. One day, I told him we'd sample his piccolo snare at all the crazy velocity levels. Pong! Pong! He loved that snare. No more switching the snare out. 

I miss Dave, but it's BFD3 for me. His piccolo snare was stolen before he went, but I have it here.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 16, 2021)

Anyone using MDrummer?


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## stigc56 (Mar 16, 2021)

SD3 and Addictive Drummer, but also NI new drum VI, can`t remember the name.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 16, 2021)

stigc56 said:


> SD3 and Addictive Drummer, but also NI new drum VI, can`t remember the name.


Butch Vig?


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## jvsax (Mar 16, 2021)

I use EZDrummer 2, and adjust the mixer settings to get a more realistic sound (more oheads/hi-hat, less snare/kick). I sometimes add a drum room, and Neutron 3, and multi-band compression.


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## SimonViklund (Mar 16, 2021)

@Pablocrespo Could you please elaborate on what the night and day difference is between Addictive Drums 2 and Superior Drummer 3? I use Addictive Drums 2 for drum kits myself but I have of course heard a lot of good stuff about SD3 and I'm curious about what particular features you think make it worth a switch.


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## 667 (Mar 16, 2021)

BFD Deluxe. My drums are recorded by Steve Albini.


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## MusiquedeReve (Mar 16, 2021)

I am really enjoying Butch Vig Drums


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## Hendrixon (Mar 17, 2021)

Don't say it... I know... I have a problem... it's really frustrating 







I tried but I couldn't fit more in this room!


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## Hendrixon (Mar 18, 2021)

Btw if someone has EZDrummer or Superior, or plans on one of them, don't dismiss libs that has the word "metal" in their name. if you strip the processing that's on top of them, they are basically just good sets of drums with lots of parts recorded by professionals in good rooms with good mics 

My recommendation goes for an EZX called "Made Of Metal" that in my view is outstanding!
It's one of the biggest EZX libs (2.2GB) and has four drum sets:
DW, Mapex, Tama and Truth + snares from Ludwig and Yamaha.
Lots of cymbals from Sabian, Paiste and Zildjian.
What more can you ask for?

This lib was recorded in Galaxy Studios in Belgium, great studio/space that is more suited for orchestral then drums which means there is a big natural rich reverb on the room mics (10 of them).










p.s. you don't have to have vdrum to lay down good drum parts... I do lots of finger drumming using small midi controllers with pads, its very quick, easy, fun and with practice can give great results.


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## chimuelo (Mar 18, 2021)

I’ve got BFD2, Addictive EZ, Superior 3 but end up always using an ancient Slate EX library, so old it can’t be downloaded, CD only.

Excellent press roll w/ velocity sensitivity, crisp snares, fat kicks, even flanged cymbal versions.

No FX so in my DSP Rack/Mixer I use my effects of choice and do complete songs in minutes.

I especially like the weird distortion from an SSB Modulator plug in where I can increase the presence of the tracks without using volume. As a last resort the volume/gain on the compressor will be used.

I tried to use Abbey Road 60’s Drummer, lost the CDs, and can no longer download from NI DL Manager? Never really liked it but it did sound vintage like bands in the era.

Since having the Akai MPC Live and NI Maschine + I’ve never needed drum samples as these have vast collections of percussion and drums. Sampled Slate EX onto the + to assist in bedside programming w/o a PC. I do my best tracks with coffee in the morning.


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## chopin4525 (Mar 18, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> Don't say it... I know... I have a problem... it's really frustrating
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a room? Couldn't tell!


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## widescreen (Mar 18, 2021)

To my usually used Abbey Road Modern Drummer and NI Studio Drummer I'd add 8Dio Advanced Drum Series Blackbird.


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## muratkayi (Mar 18, 2021)

Guys, it's been mentioned already, but I felt I wanted to emphasize it: Butch Vig Drums by NI is awesome. I use AD2 (my fav) by XLN and Abby Road as well as Studio Drummer by NI, so Butch Vig Drums didn't look at all like something I could use.
In fact, I was annoyed by their heavily processed sound.

But as soon as you use them together with an otherwise fairly completeley tracked production these really start to shine. They immediately sit well in a busy mix, occupy just the right amount of space and trade in detail for impact and definition. Try them out on something!


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## sailenox (Mar 18, 2021)

I like the Abbey Road Series from NI. All different kinds of sets. From old jazz sets to modern powerful sounding sets


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## keepitsimple (Mar 18, 2021)

Decades SDX
Death SDX


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## SupremeFist (Mar 18, 2021)

muratkayi said:


> Guys, it's been mentioned already, but I felt I wanted to emphasize it: Butch Vig Drums by NI is awesome.


I really liked the sound of those from Butch's own walkthrough but for some reason came away thinking they don't have real vel layers/RRs — do they?


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## chimuelo (Mar 18, 2021)

muratkayi said:


> Guys, it's been mentioned already, but I felt I wanted to emphasize it: Butch Vig Drums by NI is awesome. I use AD2 (my fav) by XLN and Abby Road as well as Studio Drummer by NI, so Butch Vig Drums didn't look at all like something I could use.
> In fact, I was annoyed by their heavily processed sound.
> 
> But as soon as you use them together with an otherwise fairly completeley tracked production these really start to shine. They immediately sit well in a busy mix, occupy just the right amount of space and trade in detail for impact and definition. Try them out on something!


I think I’m going to get it. Was told it would be an expansion for the Maschine + but guess they passed on that idea.
I watched several demos and think I’d get great use from the BVig drums.


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## muratkayi (Mar 18, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I really liked the sound of those from Butch's own walkthrough but for some reason came away thinking they don't have real vel layers/RRs — do they?


Tbh I can't remember right now. Can check tomorrow, if you'd like. But this underlines the kind of music I would see these in: If I want intricate detail I load up an AD2 kit and finger drum away (or use the beat transformer and their MIDI packs), but Butch Vig Drums are very poppy and as such also kind of cinematic. That does not mean you don't get any dynamics, but that is not what convinced me. 

Anyway, gonna check and get back


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## muratkayi (Mar 19, 2021)

Ah yes, I loaded it up and if there is anything like a multisampled kitpiece in there they compressed the hell out of it anyway, lol. But seriously, I think it's just one-shots.

So, do I retract my former statement? 
NO!
You load this up as a single instrument by itself and 20 seconds in you wonder how on earth this could have ended up being an official NI Kontakt instrument. 
You put this on an otherwise busy track and immediately get it. That has been my experience at least and FWIW the experience of a friend of mine who went through the same phases.


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## JyTy (Mar 19, 2021)

Superior Drummer 3 with Death/Darkness, Hansa, Decades and some other SDXes... doesn't get any better than this!


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Mar 19, 2021)

muratkayi said:


> Tbh I can't remember right now. Can check tomorrow, if you'd like. But this underlines the kind of music I would see these in: If I want intricate detail I load up an AD2 kit and finger drum away (or use the beat transformer and their MIDI packs), but Butch Vig Drums are very poppy and as such also kind of cinematic. That does not mean you don't get any dynamics, but that is not what convinced me.
> 
> Anyway, gonna check and get back


I’m looking forward to giving Butch Vig Drums a try when I upgrade Komplete during the Summer sale. BTW, I absolutely love AD2’s beat transformer. It’s surprising how well it works!

For me AD2 just hits all the right spots. It’s not as deeply sampled as even the Abbey Road stuff I would guess, but the kits load super quickly and so many of them sound great right away, especially the two jazz kits. I love the workflow of it as well, although the interface could use a facelift.

I initially got one of the smaller bundles during a sale and knew within a couple of days that I wanted the full package and they let me swap it out for the sale price even though the sale had ended.

My only regret is that I haven’t spent enough time mixing and matching to make my own kits because I like so many of the presets.

If I could only choose one drum package, I would happily go with AD2.


----------



## SupremeFist (Mar 19, 2021)

muratkayi said:


> Ah yes, I loaded it up and if there is anything like a multisampled kitpiece in there they compressed the hell out of it anyway, lol. But seriously, I think it's just one-shots.
> 
> So, do I retract my former statement?
> NO!
> ...


Thanks for checking! I guess I'll check it out when I upgrade my Komplete...


----------



## rougue (Apr 2, 2021)

For authentic drum sounds, BFD3.
Superior Drummer 3 sounds like MP3, too much masking, gating and processing, making everything sound kinda bland and same-same. IMHO. BFD has a lot more character and presence but the software is a lot more buggy than Superior. Unfortunately, it has been discontinued and doesn't work on the new MacOS.

Even Evil drums sounds better in BFD than Superior - despite being the same library.

Steven Slate 4 also sounds plastic to me. Haven't tried the latest. 

Addictive is nicer for the more bizarre stuff. And electro beats.

[Drum-kit is probably my main instrument]


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## bill5 (Apr 2, 2021)

MT Power Drum Kit and Slate both have very good freebies and more than enough for me, my needs are pretty basic.


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## Mark Schmieder (Apr 2, 2021)

Rouge, I think you are talking about the stock SD3 sounds, and I agree with you on those. Al Schmidt's Decades is what changed the game for me; I sold BFD and all of the add-on libraries afterwards.

Decades is recorded dry and unprocessed, and even most of the presets are very restrained. It's the most dynamic drum library I've ever worked with; even more so than the better/later BFD extensions.


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## rougue (Apr 2, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> Rouge, I think you are talking about the stock SD3 sounds, and I agree with you on those. Al Schmidt's Decades is what changed the game for me; I sold BFD and all of the add-on libraries afterwards.
> 
> Decades is recorded dry and unprocessed, and even most of the presets are very restrained. It's the most dynamic drum library I've ever worked with; even more so than the better/later BFD extensions.



This is great news. I'm stuck with Superior 3 now ....but no BFD. The low velocity hits have no ring to them, it's as if they're gated and sterile. Terrible for very dynamic or funky rhythms with lots of intricate ghost notes. 

Also heard promising things about Hansa Rooms.

Thanks for the info, i will definitely investigate.


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## Nimrod7 (Apr 2, 2021)

I am thinking getting Superior Drummer 3 myself, but I really dislike ToonTrack as a company.
Thet don't offer updates from SD2 -> SD3. It's the first time I am seeing a company not offering updates from a previous version...


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## Mark Schmieder (Apr 2, 2021)

Yeah, low velocity hits were a problem for me for eons as well.

I used VSL's Jazz Drums from when it was sort of a "secret" (a loyalty-only lib that wasn't offered on their main website at first).

Then I adopted Soniccouture's Moonkits, which do a great job with low velocity hits and would still be part of my arsenal if not for Decades giving me a wide enough variety with a uniform workflow.

I don't have drum triggers, so I can't speak to the real-time drummer feedback loop, which I think is where BFD reigned supreme for so long?

I use a variety of techniques to composite my drum tracks, but most of them to end up with a lot of articulations for snare (and hi-hat, when I'm not lazy), and a lot of dynamics in particular -- especially when using brushes.


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## cmillar (Apr 3, 2021)

To do with sampled drums....

I've found that the Waves 'Vitamin' has been the greatest discovery for 'helping' the sound of drum libraries.

'Vitamin' can make EZDrummer2 sound awesome in a mix when you dial in what you're looking for.

I have other drum libraries too that are beefy and maybe more 'hard-hitting', but just sayin' that EZDrummer can hold it's own against most libraries with a little help.


----------



## doctoremmet (Apr 3, 2021)

cmillar said:


> To do with sampled drums....
> 
> I've found that the Waves 'Vitamin' has been the greatest discovery for 'helping' the sound of drum libraries.
> 
> ...


Interesting! Thanks for this tip - I have this plugin but have not put it to use yet to be honest. Now I will!


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## re-peat (Apr 3, 2021)

Everything “same-same sounding” was my big problem with Superior 2 as well. (Mentioned it once to one of the drummers/producers who developes libraries for Toontrack and he firmly disagreed of course, so it’s nice to read that someone else is hearing it too.) That, and the very disappointing cymbals and hi-hats. And I mean: *very* disappointing. For me, anyway.
While the hi-hats and cymbals of Superior 3 are still nowhere near how I like these things to sound — my biggest frustration when working with SD3 —, that “same-same” problem has largely disappeared, I find, also in the core content. Which is a big improvement.

The hats in ‘Decades’ are, alas, also not my thing. I don’t know what they do to hi-hats over at ToonTrack, but every hi-hat they release, no matter the kit, no matter the library’s producer, sounds thin and weak to my ears. As if they’re made of starched tinfoil.

That said, very few libraries have good hi-hats. (By ‘good’, I mean: hi-hats I like the sound of, and enjoy programming.) I can think of only two: Mixosaurus and HandHeldSound.

Here’s the hi-hat from *Mixosaurus*. Can’t do this with SD3.

Has HandHeldSound already been mentioned in this thread? If not, then this isn’t a good virtual drums thread. HHS has released a few terrific kits.
If you don’t like drumsolo’s you probably don’t want to listen to the following little examples, but they do give a pretty good idea, even if I say so myself, of what these HHS kits sound like.

*HHS The White Kit*
*HHS The Haze Kit*
*HHS The Blue Kit*

_


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 3, 2021)

I bought MAD during a sale a few years back, and forgot I had it on account of hating Kontakt as a way of working with drums. I'll see if I can find time to try it again soon, but I'm working 100+/wk.

Even after buying every expansion for BFD, I never found hi-hats that I liked, and especially ride cymbals. It was actually the main reason I switched to SD3, but I'll admit that even Decades isn't perfect in that regard. I blamed it on myself though, as I don't have an e-kit to trigger them so probably am not getting the best out of it.


----------



## DimensionsTomorrow (Apr 3, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Everything “same-same sounding” was my big problem with Superior 2 as well. (Mentioned it once to one of the drummers/producers who developes libraries for Toontrack and he firmly disagreed of course, so it’s nice to read that someone else is hearing it too.) That, and the very disappointing cymbals and hi-hats. And I mean: *very* disappointing. For me, anyway.
> While the hi-hats and cymbals of Superior 3 are still nowhere near how I like these things to sound — my biggest frustration when working with SD3 —, that “same-same” problem has largely disappeared, I find, also in the core content. Which is a big improvement.
> 
> The hats in ‘Decades’ are, alas, also not my thing. I don’t know what they do to hi-hats over at ToonTrack, but every hi-hat they release, no matter the kit, no matter the library’s producer, sounds thin and weak to my ears. As if they’re made of starched tinfoil.
> ...


Just when I thought I didn’t need any more drums. 

Great drum sounds and amazing programming. I’ll keep my eyes open for an HHS sale! 

That Mixosaurus example is just fantastic. Very, very Steve Gadd. It’s a shame that library isn’t available anymore, but still very inspiring. Thanks for sharing those.


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 3, 2021)

it totally depends. Honestly...All the products mentioned so far are totally great. These days you can use pencils banging on pots and pans and if it sounds cool, nobody will care. Use whatever you like the sound of honestly. Now if you're trying to create a particular "authentic" sound, then that will depend totally on what you're trying to achieve.

My observations of what I own:


*Product**Pros**Cons*Steven SlatePreMixed and sounds awesome, you can get different producer packs with different sound, they have emulated the sounds of famous albums. Mostly rock oriented.mostly the FX are baked in, so if you don't like the sound, harder to dial in.Superior Drummer 3Extremely nice for a real drummer to play with midi kit...very very flexible in terms of articulations, sounds, etc. Many useful midi loop production tools included. Lots of expansions available.Doesn't provide produced pre-mixed sounds. A little on the expensive side especially when you start adding expansionsAddictive DrumsTons of expansions which are premixed in built in mixer with built in FX; which means you can tweak the sound. Reasonably affordable, very easy to use. The expansions cover a very wide range of production sounds.Not the deepest sampling and articulations compared to other offerings.LogicPro DrummerPretty decent sounds, ability to generate grooves on the fly based on your other recorded midi parts. Has producer channel presets with many presets to get started, and you can tweak the mix in LogicPro's mixer.Sounds are only OK. Only works in LogicPro. Fairly simple sample set.JamStixOne of a kind, awesome tool. Virtual drummer. Built in sounds are not as good as other offerings, but quite affordable and some of them are quite good, including emulation of John Bohnam sound, among other things.Main focus is the virtual drummer, which is not for everyone. Limited support on MacNI KompleteTons of kits, some are pretty darn decent! Runs in KontaktRuns in kontakt. Feels dirty to use them so I hardly ever do, but I should use more.NI Maschine KitsGreat for non-acoustic kits!!Mostly for groove oriented stuff, not so much for acoustic kits.MPC StudioSimilar as Maschine, lots of cool expansions.


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## DSmolken (Apr 3, 2021)

Mention of Steve Gadd reminded me of this demo...



TK Drums stuff is getting Kontakt versions starting a few weeks ago (Extreme G1 kit and Raw Cowbell so far), which is, well, not dedicated drum software, but still more user-friendly than the no GUI, load each mic in a separate instance SFZ patches they were before. Very much a rock sound, but huge keymaps and 127 velocity layers in many places. Might be an option.


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## John Longley (Apr 3, 2021)

I used BFD and Superior Drummer for years, but Steven Slate Drums with the new Deluxe (unprocessed) kits is fast and sounds great. Using it a ton and it’s cheap.


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## tritonely (Apr 3, 2021)

Shoutout to Alive Underground Drums V2. A nice cheap drum library with many velocities which is a fine sketch and low resource tool, but have stayed in my projects many times. It's very wet as that is the goal of the library, but for orchestral/hybrid purposes it's the right kind of wet.


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## el-bo (Apr 3, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Has HandHeldSound already been mentioned in this thread? If not, then this isn’t a good virtual drums thread. HHS has released a few terrific kits.
> If you don’t like drumsolo’s you probably don’t want to listen to the following little examples, but they do give a pretty good idea, even if I say so myself, of what these HHS kits sound like.
> 
> *HHS The White Kit*
> ...


These seem to do so many things right, but seem to have a few frustrations. Can't seem to access the manual (Getting a warning about insecure something something), so can't confirm.

Maybe I could ask you?


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## Markus Kohlprath (Apr 4, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Has HandHeldSound already been mentioned in this thread? If not, then this isn’t a good virtual drums thread. HHS has released a few terrific kits.
> If you don’t like drumsolo’s you probably don’t want to listen to the following little examples, but they do give a pretty good idea, even if I say so myself, of what these HHS kits sound like.
> 
> *HHS The White Kit*
> ...


Although not looking very shiny gui wise and being a bit strange to route and mix the MAD Drums should be on top of everybody's list of lively and realistic sounding drums imo. When I try out Addictive Drums and compare it with the HandHeld I almost always stay with the latter.


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## Mark Schmieder (Apr 4, 2021)

I was already logged out when I tried MAD drums last night. I have both sets; the original and the three-kit funk library (red, white, and blue). The hi-hats are indeed great. Can't stand the drums themselves though; they sound compressed and overly resonant to my ears.

The ride cymbal is also well-done. But I decided a couple of years ago not to mix-and-match as I now record my drums as one stereo track vs. individual tracks per kit piece, after doing careful comparisons of what the end result sounds like, given that it would be way too much effort to individually track each mic in the chain and thus one never quite gets a cohesive sound from stems.


----------



## DimensionsTomorrow (Apr 5, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Everything “same-same sounding” was my big problem with Superior 2 as well. (Mentioned it once to one of the drummers/producers who developes libraries for Toontrack and he firmly disagreed of course, so it’s nice to read that someone else is hearing it too.) That, and the very disappointing cymbals and hi-hats. And I mean: *very* disappointing. For me, anyway.
> While the hi-hats and cymbals of Superior 3 are still nowhere near how I like these things to sound — my biggest frustration when working with SD3 —, that “same-same” problem has largely disappeared, I find, also in the core content. Which is a big improvement.
> 
> The hats in ‘Decades’ are, alas, also not my thing. I don’t know what they do to hi-hats over at ToonTrack, but every hi-hat they release, no matter the kit, no matter the library’s producer, sounds thin and weak to my ears. As if they’re made of starched tinfoil.
> ...


I went through some of my kits and you’ve made me realize how comparatively unexpressive the high hats are. I’ll definitely have to give HHS a try now next time it’s on sale!

Do you find it difficult to mix the hats from HHS with other kits?


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## audio1 (Apr 5, 2021)

I have Xln, Ez, Ni, Kyle and a bunch of 3rd party Kontakt stuff.

Its a moving target and no one plugin will do the trick.

Heck, I've used abbey road 60s cymbals, Ez toms and battery or Xln snare to make up a hybrid kit according to a tune or tracks vibe. This happens via exploration. Point is, there is not a perfect magical kit that works for everything. 

Think of it this way, you're not just getting different drums and cymbals, you're getting different rooms too. These rooms are very important to tone and vibe depending on the style. XLN's room is all the same for all their kits. Ez packs were recorded in different rooms. Abbey road is too ambient at times, but sometimes called for, but probably the best sounds.

None of these replace a real drummer, but keep in mind, when I had a real live room, I had 10 different snares, 3 kiks and assorted toms/cymbals with different size hats and a variety of great mics. Add a great drummer and you could kick some A##.

This is why I recommend get all this stuff. Options and flexibility, and even then you will not be satisfied and want more.

Its a bottomless pit out there.

Man do I miss my real drummers.

Note - my favorite kit is abbey road 60s when it first came out with no eq/dynamic options. All these companies should be making flat versions of theirs drums. Point is, I don't want to be stuck with somebody else idea of how to make a snare pop. These presets/plugs and drums often sound great ion their own...but in a mix....they end up sound real weak. The way they should do, if its "indie drums" they should call in a bass player and some guitars. Have them all play in the room together and get your drum tone and balance based on actual music and not just how the drums sound alone in the room. It blows me away none of these developers have figured that out yet.


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## Tom Ferguson (Apr 6, 2021)

DSmolken said:


> Mention of Steve Gadd reminded me of this demo...
> 
> 
> 
> TK Drums stuff is getting Kontakt versions starting a few weeks ago (Extreme G1 kit and Raw Cowbell so far), which is, well, not dedicated drum software, but still more user-friendly than the no GUI, load each mic in a separate instance SFZ patches they were before. Very much a rock sound, but huge keymaps and 127 velocity layers in many places. Might be an option.



I actually really like the sound of these drums! I've been looking for a really tight dry and natural rock kit sound for a while specifically for a kind of J-Rock/J-Pop drum sound a la something like _this _(below), but found everything either too heavy, too weak, too processed or heavily played or too retro or just the wrong kind of drum tuning performer and room etc. This sounds perfect for what I want, and of course it turns out to be a japanese developer haha. That makes sense!



Any word on when this is coming to kontakt?

(PS any more recommendations for this kind of sound? Superior drummer + SDXs just don't do it.)


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## DSmolken (Apr 6, 2021)

Tom Ferguson said:


> Any word on when this is coming to kontakt?


I just asked on Twitter, so let's see. So far the G1 Extreme kit and a cowbell are in Kontakt, see if you like that one. Here's the G1 overview: http://arthurdrdr.phpapps.jp/?p=2987


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## Tom Ferguson (Apr 6, 2021)

DSmolken said:


> I just asked on Twitter, so let's see. So far the G1 Extreme kit and a cowbell are in Kontakt, see if you like that one. Here's the G1 overview: http://arthurdrdr.phpapps.jp/?p=2987


Nice, I think that's the one I'm most interested in anyway. I'm finding it hard to work out the difference between the Standard and extreme versions from the translation. Do you know what they are? £120-ish for the extreme version is kinda steep for what seems to be only one nice and deep sampled kit.


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## DSmolken (Apr 6, 2021)

The best way to see that is compare the keymaps which are linked from the Booth page. Basically for G1 Extreme gets more hi-hat degrees of openness, more ride and snare articulations, and as the last little push over the cliff, rim clicks on the toms. Cheap, it is not, but thinking how many hours that hi-hat must have taken...

I already mentioned Tofuto's Handmade Drummer Pro, but might as well bring it up again - not so deep sampled and more on the pop side in terms of sound (not hit as hard), but another Japanese developer, and samples of Canopus drums which are a very high-end Japanese kit.


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## darkogav (Apr 6, 2021)

Mostly NI AbbeyRoad and DrumLab. I find I actually like and use DrumLab a lot more for my needs.


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## Consona (Apr 6, 2021)

I'm using some Analogue Drums libs and wanted to get some more, but for some reason they are not selling their libraries anymore.


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## Tom Ferguson (Apr 6, 2021)

DSmolken said:


> The best way to see that is compare the keymaps which are linked from the Booth page. Basically for G1 Extreme gets more hi-hat degrees of openness, more ride and snare articulations, and as the last little push over the cliff, rim clicks on the toms. Cheap, it is not, but thinking how many hours that hi-hat must have taken...
> 
> I already mentioned Tofuto's Handmade Drummer Pro, but might as well bring it up again - not so deep sampled and more on the pop side in terms of sound (not hit as hard), but another Japanese developer, and samples of Canopus drums which are a very high-end Japanese kit.


Actually listening again, I think the L1 is the one I prefer actually, so will be very interested know when that's coming to kontakt! Yeh I can definitely appreciate how that isn't the worst price considering the deep sampling.

Thanks for the extra recommendation, but I'm not a fan of the snare from that HandMadeDrummerPro library unfortunately. The rest of the kit is quite nice though!


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## aasaa (Apr 6, 2021)

Tom Ferguson said:


> Actually listening again, I think the L1 is the one I prefer actually, so will be very interested know when that's coming to kontakt! Yeh I can definitely appreciate how that isn't the worst price considering the deep sampling.
> 
> Thanks for the extra recommendation, but I'm not a fan of the snare from that HandMadeDrummerPro library unfortunately. The rest of the kit is quite nice though!


Hello, I'm the creator of T.K.D.-L1-.
The release of the KONTAKT version of L1 is scheduled for the end of April or early May.
I'm currently working on a port of G1, and will start work on L1 as soon as that's finished.

If you have any further questions, please send me a private message and I'll do my best to answer them.
By the way, the L in L1 is the L in Ludwig.


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## Tom Ferguson (Apr 6, 2021)

aasaa said:


> Hello, I'm the creator of T.K.D.-L1-.
> The release of the KONTAKT version of L1 is scheduled for the end of April or early May.
> I'm currently working on a port of G1, and will start work on L1 as soon as that's finished.
> 
> ...


Hi there,

Thanks for the information. I'll almost certainly be getting the L1 kit when it comes to kontakt! (Probably the G1 later down the line too : P) BTW is there a mailing list or the like which I could join to keep up to date with your releases? 

Really happy to have found these drums as they are exactly what I've been looking for for a while. Cheers!


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## aasaa (Apr 6, 2021)

Tom Ferguson said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Thanks for the information. I'll almost certainly be getting the L1 kit when it comes to kontakt! (Probably the G1 later down the line too : P) BTW is there a mailing list or the like which I could join to keep up to date with your releases?
> 
> Really happy to have found these drums as they are exactly what I've been looking for for a while. Cheers!


Check out this Twitter account.


https://twitter.com/_TKDrums_


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## Niowiad (Apr 7, 2021)

audio1 said:


> Think of it this way, you're not just getting different drums and cymbals, you're getting different rooms too. These rooms are very important to tone and vibe depending on the style.* XLN's room is all the same for all their kits*. Ez packs were recorded in different rooms. Abbey road is too ambient at times, but sometimes called for, but probably the best sounds.


XLN's stuff (Addictive Drums packs/kits) was recorded in about 11-12 different "genre-appropriate" studios/rooms across Stockholm, Los Angeles and Gothenburg.
Each kit piece reports the exact studio of the recording when choosing them in the GUI.

I don't know if you meant something different though.


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Apr 7, 2021)

Niowiad said:


> XLN's stuff (Addictive Drums packs/kits) was recorded in about 11-12 different "genre-appropriate" studios/rooms across Stockholm, Los Angeles and Gothenburg.
> Each kit piece reports the exact studio of the recording when choosing them in the GUI.
> 
> I don't know if you meant something different though.


There are also two United Studio ADpacks (among my favorites) and Fairfax (never liked those).


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Apr 7, 2021)

Has anybody used the giant Ken Scott library for Kontakt? It was released about ten years ago, I believe.


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## audio1 (Apr 7, 2021)

Niowiad said:


> XLN's stuff (Addictive Drums packs/kits) was recorded in about 11-12 different "genre-appropriate" studios/rooms across Stockholm, Los Angeles and Gothenburg.
> Each kit piece reports the exact studio of the recording when choosing them in the GUI.
> 
> I don't know if you meant something different though.


I stand corrected, but honestly its not that noticeable. I need to check out and listen with that in mind. Thanks for the clarification.


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## muratkayi (Apr 9, 2021)

The United Pop Kit in AD2 is mindblowing for everything. You can put it on everything, including toast, I swear.


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## galactic orange (Apr 9, 2021)

How about United Heavy?


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## sourcefor (Apr 9, 2021)

Me, I’m a drummer! LOL!


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## Trash Panda (Apr 9, 2021)

sourcefor said:


> Me, I’m a drummer! LOL!


Of course you are.


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## sourcefor (Apr 9, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Of course you are.


No really I am all kidding aside!


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## sourcefor (Apr 9, 2021)

But I do use GGD drums ,Slate, and PerfectDrums along with the built logic drums sometimes as well!


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## rougue (Apr 18, 2021)

I don't think Toontrack could pull this off. 
I have tried Decades now, and although it is still way more dynamic - compared to previous libraries, it still has that artificial sound to it. Toontrack fills scream "I'm a drum machine and proud!".



DSmolken said:


> Mention of Steve Gadd reminded me of this demo...
> 
> 
> 
> TK Drums stuff is getting Kontakt versions starting a few weeks ago (Extreme G1 kit and Raw Cowbell so far), which is, well, not dedicated drum software, but still more user-friendly than the no GUI, load each mic in a separate instance SFZ patches they were before. Very much a rock sound, but huge keymaps and 127 velocity layers in many places. Might be an option.


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## rougue (Apr 18, 2021)

Mirrorball by Elbow.

I love these drum sounds for slower music. Had something similar in BFD. But that's gone now. Any suggestions? Esp the deep and resonant bass drum with the long decay (reverb doesn't suffice).

BTW, because hi-hats are notoriously bad in drum software, (something happens to the frequencies), I would often record my own hi-hats separately - my sloppy timing with the quantised snares made it sound very "human".  Could also pan eDrum hats to the left and human hats to the right for some bizarre phasing effects. But good hi-hats aren't cheap.


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## DSmolken (Apr 18, 2021)

That sounds like an undampened kick, played fairly softly. I sampled something pretty close once - here's a large kick from an old Polish kit, first dampened and then not. It's not a kit drummers would generally consider to be especially desirable, heh. Not a go-to for a most music. But it does have a big ringy kick and oversized toms.


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## EIEIO9995 (Apr 28, 2021)

Superior Drummer 3 (along with the SD2-EZX packages) offer lots of choices and customization. They are pretty awesome. The only thing lacking with their libraries are (IMO) are the quality of the cymbals. The drums are great, the cymbals very weak. While a fair amount of extra work, I have been working to integrate the great cymbals available in the various Get Good Drums libraries. So, ultimately, SD3 drums with GGD cymbals - the best of both worlds.


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## DigitalSpace (Apr 28, 2021)

Depends on what I'm working on. If it's orchestral, then SAGA, Cerberus, Drumatic Creator and Taiko Creator (though I haven't put much time into the Creator series). If it has a rock/pop beat, then EZDrummer 2 and/or Slate. I don't need all the extra mics of SD3 and if you look at the sample/bit depth, they are the same for SD3 and EZDrummer 2 (depending on the time of the expansion release the bit depth can be 16 or 24). Some of the EZD2 kits allow you to choose the original recording, so you can mix as you wish without their post processing.

I have to admit that the Decades SDX of SD3 is tempting.


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## jtnyc (Apr 28, 2021)

DigitalSpace said:


> If it has a rock/pop beat, then EZDrummer 2 and/or Slate. I don't need all the extra mics of SD3 and if you look at the sample/bit depth, they are the same for SD3 and EZDrummer 2 (depending on the time of the expansion release the bit depth can be 16 or 24).


The bit depth has little to do with how real a drum performance sounds. The velocity layers and round robins do, and typically SD3 and SDX expansions offer way more layers and rr’s then EZ Drummer and EZX expansions.

Also, someone was saying that SD3 didn’t sound as real because of midi loop fills sounding like a drum machine. Could be in some cases, but that’s a bad midi loop not a bad or limited set of samples. I never use midi loops, so I can’t really comment on Toontracks loop quality, but if programmed properly, SD3 sounds incredibly realistic and the depth of sampling, velocity layers and rr’s are the equal or better then anythng there. Add to that the amount of mics, room perspectives and routing options and it’s just unbeatable. Especially SDX’s like Decades, Bob Rock and Eddie Kramer. It’s just incredible what we have at our disposal these days.


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## DigitalSpace (Apr 28, 2021)

jtnyc said:


> The bit depth has little to do with how real a drum performance sounds. The velocity layers and round robins do, and typically SD3 and SDX expansions offer way more layers and rr’s then EZ Drummer and EZX expansions.
> 
> Also, someone was saying that SD3 didn’t sound as real because of midi loop fills sounding like a drum machine. Could be in some cases, but that’s a bad midi loop not a bad or limited set of samples. I never use midi loops, so I can’t really comment on Toontracks loop quality, but if programmed properly, SD3 sounds incredibly realistic and the depth of sampling, velocity layers and rr’s are the equal or better then anythng there. Add to that the amount of mics, room perspectives and routing options and it’s just unbeatable. Especially SDX’s like Decades, Bob Rock and Eddie Kramer. It’s just incredible what we have at our disposal these days.


I'm aware they have little to do with how the performance sounds. I was just pointing out that the two products share a lot in the samples outside of the extra mics in SD3. Obviously SD3 is the superior tool, but it comes down to what your needs are. 

Both EZD2 and SD3 allow you to modify the loops extensively, and for my uses, that is sufficient to get what I need out of it. I've found Toontrack's MIDI loops to be quite good. That said, I don't really use the ones that came with it, and I've added quite a few sound and MIDI expansions. I have large library to choose from and modify, so I just move on when something doesn't click with me.

All that said, I still get tempted by SD3 every now and then. Toontrack doesn't release all the content from SD3 expansions to EZD2, and when they do, it may be the just the MIDI or sound without the MIDI. The reverse holds true as well though as there are some releases in EZD2 that you just can't get in SD3. Choices . . .


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## RMatute (Apr 29, 2021)

I used Steve Gadd Drumscores with Sample Cell, Audiowerks/Logic in the late 1990s and was very happy with them. Used the single shots only, as my music required me to create my own MIDI grooves. These were for backing tracks used in live performance (live streaming out of Logic). Fortunately they translated well to .wav, .mp3 files.

I believe Q-Up Arts re-released these in 2 volumes in 2015.

To my ears, most other "natural drum" samples are for mid to loud rock music and often too ambient. The Gadd samples have a dry, more neutral flavor that I have been able to use in country rock, folk/acoustic rock, moderate/pop rock, blues and calypso/reggae/World Beat (reference Joe Cocker's 1976 Stingray album with Gadd on drums, or Gadd's work with Paul Simon for these sounds).

I would like to get back to this now in 2021. Of course these ancient samples lack sufficient hits for Round Robin or Left & Right hand realism, but otherwise I still like them.

Can anyone recommend a more modern alternative? High hats are important to me and the Gadd samples were just fine for them. The Japanese drums referenced earlier in this thread sound interesting but I don't do Twitter, so hope that gentleman keeps us informed here or starts a mailing list.

Thnx for all suggestions.


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## Nate Johnson (Apr 29, 2021)

I’ve always been into tight and dry kits. Huge fan of LABS drums and more recently, BFA’s Grindhouse kits.


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## richhickey (Apr 29, 2021)

Handheld sound MAD rock n funk kits are stellar - dry, natural, great dynamic range. https://www.handheldsound.com/instruments/mad/#*


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## DSmolken (Apr 29, 2021)

Nate Johnson said:


> BFA’s Grindhouse kits.


Oh, interesting! How deep is the sampling on those?


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## Nate Johnson (Apr 29, 2021)

DSmolken said:


> Oh, interesting! How deep is the sampling on those?


Deep enough for the stuff I’m into. But its not crazy detailed, dynamics wise. That entire library is simple, but VERY vibey.


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## RMatute (Apr 29, 2021)

Nate Johnson said:


> BFA’s Grindhouse kits.


Hi Nate, 
LABS are definitely worth trying, especially for free.

Regarding BFA’s Grindhouse kits, all I could find was:




__





Big Fish Audio - Grindhouse - A virtual instrument that captures the heart and soul of B-Movie cinema


A virtual instrument that captures the heart and soul of B-Movie cinema



www.bigfishaudio.com




which appears to be movie sounds from the 1970s?
Could you please provide a link or more info? Thnx!


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## Trash Panda (Apr 29, 2021)

RMatute said:


> I used Steve Gadd Drumscores with Sample Cell, Audiowerks/Logic in the late 1990s and was very happy with them. Used the single shots only, as my music required me to create my own MIDI grooves. These were for backing tracks used in live performance (live streaming out of Logic). Fortunately they translated well to .wav, .mp3 files.
> 
> I believe Q-Up Arts re-released these in 2 volumes in 2015.
> 
> ...


Have you looked at MODO drums? They’re a hybrid sample and physical modeling drum VI and very flexible with velocity layers, RRs and ambience.


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## re-peat (Apr 29, 2021)

Here’s *SD3 in a very dry and tight customization*. I did this example rather quickly I'm afraid, so it’s far from perfect and rather crudely mixed too, but it does give some idea of what’s possible, I believe. All sounds are from the standard SD3 package, i.o.w. no instruments from any of the expansions.
There’s three different customized kits here and the start of each is indicated by a finger cymbal.

The trick to get a dry and tight sound with SD3 is: 
(1) Don’t send too much signal to the overheads (in fact, send as little as possible, just enough to avoid thinness, to give the sound some depth and also to have a minimum but enough coherence in the total drumsound). Compensate for low hihat and cymbal-levels by raising the indivual sends of these instruments in the overheads-track.
(2) Stay away, far away, from the highest velocities (to avoid that irritating and tiresome whacking drumsound that Toontrack does so obnoxiously well), 
(3) Use the envelope curve of each instrument to reduce the releases of the samples. But be careful: overdoing it sounds toy-ish and ridiculous. For added crispness, cautious use of a transient designer may help, but here too: don’t exaggerate.
(4) Program carefully and give every detail of every instrument your full attention. Especially the dynamics of the performance, which is absolutely crucial.

The above suggestions are not the bible of course. It’s just the way I do it. If I had to work with SD3 for this kind of thing.

_


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## RMatute (Apr 30, 2021)

> #135
> Handheld sound MAD rock n funk kits are stellar - dry, natural, great dynamic range. https://www.handheldsound.com/instruments/mad/#*


I'm leaning towards the $200 MAD https://www.handheldsound.com/instruments/mad/#* as the best alternative of which I am aware at this time.

SD3 would require too much work, the releases sound to truncated to my ears, and it costs more than MAD.

MODO looks good on paper but I don't like the sound of the snares -- too rock-- and otherwise unnatural sounding in my subjective opinion.

Has anyone use Sonoma Wire Works DrumCore? http://www.sonomawireworks.com/index.php -- they had Steve Gadd samples back around 2013. No longer have Gadd, but feature many other well-known drummers including Bernard Purdie, my second choice. However, the current DrumCore 4 is only compatible with Logic 10.4.4, and their website and YouTube channel seem awfully quiet, so looks like they are not really a contender any longer?


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## RMatute (Apr 30, 2021)

May I voice the unspoken question? Aren't Realidrums another significant contender? (Hello, Mike Green!) If its sounds are better than the Logic Drummer (are they?) and its complexity continuum/grooves, etc are also superior to Logic's Drummer (are they?), surely it is one of the top contenders for Drum Library?

Once I am willing to accept the sounds of a drum kit, most of my time & energy is spent fine-tuning the groove at 960 PPQ (parts per quarternote) in Logic, for the kick, the snare, the hi-hat, etc. (Think of the not very widely used DNA Groove Templates.) I have never used a 3rd party groove because they either don't fit my song or I get tired of looking through the lists of possibilities.

Programming my own fills, and especially complex high-hat parts is difficult and very time consuming. If I can settle for more generic fills perhaps Realidrums could make productions quicker and easier?

My main question about Realidrums: is the user able to fine tune the grooves at the granular 960 ppq level? Can such fine tuning be saved to file in Realidrums (not in Logic) so that the Realidrums Groove is edited and available in a User Grooves memory bank? How would such editing affect Fills?

Also: does Realidrums make use of Round Robins or Left & Right hand hits?
What settings can be saved and therefore recalled with little effort, such as Complexity?

Thnx to all. This new member is really enjoying this forum!

Update: this video on the Realidrum YouTube channel answers many questions well:


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## Trash Panda (Apr 30, 2021)

Not sure what you mean about the MODO drums snare. There’s 10 different kits and you have tons of options for customizing the sound of each kit element (size, wood, head material, level of snare tightness, where it gets hit, etc.).


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## RMatute (Apr 30, 2021)

Hello TP,
I based my opinion on the audio demos here: https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/mododrum/index.php?p=audio, and didn't hear anything I liked. Are there other audio demos showcasing more natural sounds?


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## darkogav (Apr 30, 2021)

ChromeCrescendo said:


> I am really enjoying Butch Vig Drums


Yes, it's fun to use, but NI really screwed up the mapping on that one. I fail to comprehend why they would not have mapped it to the same a Kontakt drums.


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## AudioLoco (Apr 30, 2021)

Addictive Drums are my choice, but honestly whenever I have time I record an actual kit.

I know this is VI, but the real deal is just something else, especially for Rock (Unless it's a super polished/modern style where you quantize everything and push the drums towards sounding processed anyhow). I find that even the worst recorded kit sounds more "right" then programming for hours the best software, recorded with the best kits, the best equipment and mics etc....

A good approach (someone was mentioning that already) also is to record at least the hats/cymbals, and if even that is too time consuming or impossible, sometimes even just a real recorded tambourine really helps get some humanity back to the picture in my experience.


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## MusiquedeReve (Apr 30, 2021)

darkogav said:


> Yes, it's fun to use, but NI really screwed up the mapping on that one. I fail to comprehend why they would not have mapped it to the same a Kontakt drums.


I agree 100% - I have to basically go in and figure out which drum is mapped to which channel


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## AndreBoulard (May 19, 2021)

from looking into it with sounds i find the sd3 with decades by Al, the perfectdrum and GGD stands out. I was quite amazed at how warm and punchie in the GGD, never heard of them till now and i think they win but i am not sure how they work well with the UI. 
Advanced Drum Series Blackbird which sounded really good for the sale price.​


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## CGR (May 19, 2021)

I move between:

*Addictive Drums 2* (especially the Fairfax kit) - intuitive, plenty of expansions + good preview system and drag 'n drop MIDI regions.

*UJAM Deep *(70's era sound) – not as flexible as AD2, but great tone with an impressive and natural sounding selection of grooves & patterns.

*Loops de la Créme* (Manhattan Drums, Double Cream Drums and Booga Rocket Drums) – Kontakt based drum libraries, impeccably recorded by the musician-developer. Lots of variation and good dynamics, very useable patterns & clever scripting via the modwheel. Very keenly priced too.


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## CGR (May 21, 2021)

A new release worth checking out:



https://vi-control.net/community/threads/new-palace-rock-drums-a-superb-drum-kit-for-kontakt.109828/


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## darkogav (May 21, 2021)

The NI Abbey Road collection is more than enough for my needs. I just render kits to individual raw audio tracks and add plugin effects as needed. I am considering the Percussion from Strezov. It seems very different from other Kontakt drums I have.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (May 29, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Has HandHeldSound already been mentioned in this thread? If not, then this isn’t a good virtual drums thread. HHS has released a few terrific kits.
> If you don’t like drumsolo’s you probably don’t want to listen to the following little examples, but they do give a pretty good idea, even if I say so myself, of what these HHS kits sound like.


This finally went on sale, so I got it for 50% off. I’m looking forward to trying the hats/cymbals as I loved your demo tracks! Do you tend to use this mainly just for the hats/cymbals and mix with other libraries or do you use these standalone?


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## re-peat (May 29, 2021)

So far, I’ve always used them in their entirety. (It’s only when I use Toontrack drums that I'll bring in hats and cymbals from other libraries.)

A tiny word of warning with regard to the Handheld kits: you might get a little confused at first with the way the bleed is implemented: those little dials at the bottom of the Mix tab will cycle, everytime you click on them, through various bleed settings among two components of the kit. It’s a somewhat awkward way to do things, I find, and I thought I would get used to it but so far, I can’t say that I have. But it’s important that you know about it because the bleed sound is an essential part of Handheld’s fabulous drumsound.

Also very important: take your time to learn to play the snare and the hi-hats. You’ll find soon enough that they have additional articulations which will only sound if you sustain one key while playing another. (That’s when you get, for example, those ‘ghosty’ little snare-rolls that will increase the believability of the snare performance enormously.)

And another thing: I don’t know if this peculiarity is still present in the version that’s being sold today, but if you load a Handheld kit in a multi-output version of the Kontakt plugin and assign the different components of the kit to different outputs, the internal mixing functionality is largely disabled. There is, I suppose, sense to this, but if you’re not prepared for it, it might surprise you.

And this is something that’s on my wishlist: currently, the Pitch parameter affects the entire kit — every sample that’s loaded —, which means that you can’t tune the various kit components seperately. To me, that is the biggest weakness of these otherwise terrific software drums. (At the very least, the toms should have individual tuning options, in my opinion. Sure, you can tune them separately by going into Kontakt’s edit mode, selecting the required groups and then re-tune these, but I would hardly call that the most intuitive way to do it.)

Be sure to watch the MAD Walkthrough video below. It’ll help to speed up the process of getting comfortable with these drums.




_


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## Trash Panda (May 29, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> This finally went on sale, so I got it for 50% off. I’m looking forward to trying the hats/cymbals as I loved your demo tracks! Do you tend to use this mainly just for the hats/cymbals and mix with other libraries or do you use these standalone?


Where/how do you get the discount? Shows at $199 on their website.


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## darkogav (May 29, 2021)

"MAD4U70" at checkout?


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## Trash Panda (May 29, 2021)

Says the coupon has expired.


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## mscp (May 29, 2021)

Resoded said:


> Question in the title, which is your go-to drumkit sample library and why?


Abbey Road Modern Drums. Why? Because it's a good all rounder.


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## ahorsewhocandrive (May 29, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Says the coupon has expired.


try 'MEM21'


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## Trash Panda (May 29, 2021)

ahorsewhocandrive said:


> try 'MEM21'


That one’s working.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (May 29, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Where/how do you get the discount? Shows at $199 on their website.


I got an email about a Memorial Day sale until 6/2. You have to use a code, but doesn’t look custom, so try *MEM21. *


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## DimensionsTomorrow (May 29, 2021)

re-peat said:


> So far, I’ve always used them in their entirety. (It’s only when I use Toontrack drums that I'll bring in hats and cymbals from other libraries.)
> 
> A tiny word of warning with regard to the Handheld kits: you might get a little confused at first with the way the bleed is implemented: those little dials at the bottom of the Mix tab will cycle, everytime you click on them, through various bleed settings among two components of the kit. It’s a somewhat awkward way to do things, I find, and I thought I would get used to it but so far, I can’t say that I have. But it’s important that you know about it because the bleed sound is an essential part of Handheld’s fabulous drumsound.
> 
> ...



Piet,

This is super helpful! Thanks very much! I have a project I’m working on this month so I’m eager to give these a try! Hopefully with the congas from FlyingHandPercussion, which was also recently deeply discounted.

I hope all is well with you!

Jason


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## AceAudioHQ (May 29, 2021)

MODO Drum for acoustic, Beatbox Anthology 2 for electronic


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## doctoremmet (May 31, 2021)

bvaughn0402 said:


> Do you have any recommendations for "go to" sets in Splice for EDM or Hip/Hop Trap? You know ... the REALLY good 808 stuff on there? Or perhaps some Linn Drum? It seems there are 1,000 different 808 samples on there, and I can't imagine they are all the same quality.


Check Samples from Mars. They pretty much nailed it for ALL legacy drummachines. Every BF they run a terrific “everything” sale where you can get all of their excellently recorded stuff for a couple of tenners in a plethora of formats, including ones for hardware samplers (which is cool if you have those - which I do) and Ableton (awesome).



Redirect Notice


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## AkashicBird (Jun 2, 2021)

So I just discovered BFD and they curently have a 50% off sale on Plugin alliance which makes it pretty tempting. Sounds are good and there's a variety of kits, but I'm wondering if the settings are as deep as SD3 or even AD2. I've only tested the later one so far, but it has individual settings for kit pieces like attack/decay or volume enveloppe amongst other, that make it pretty easy to tweak to get the sound you want.
Also wondering if BFD 3 can also send multiple outs in the DAW (I use Reaper if that matters) like AD2 does (might be a stupid question but who knows...)


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## Phillip Dixon (Jun 7, 2021)

Hi all fed up with searching Google 
Really want to get sd3 but want to know if it has presets out of the box and or, can you buy presets third party. Likeing the sound of core library. But don't want to be forever tweaking


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## ahorsewhocandrive (Jun 7, 2021)

yeah there's presets


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## MusiquedeReve (Jun 7, 2021)

Phillip Dixon said:


> Hi all fed up with searching Google
> Really want to get sd3 but want to know if it has presets out of the box and or, can you buy presets third party. Likeing the sound of core library. But don't want to be forever tweaking


I just purchased SD3 this week but haven't been able to do a deep dive yet
As the drums are all raw, without processing, they are at lower volume (at least to my ears)



ahorsewhocandrive said:


> yeah there's presets


Presets as far as what though? (asking seriously - not sarcastically)


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## Casiquire (Jun 7, 2021)

Phillip Dixon said:


> Hi all fed up with searching Google
> Really want to get sd3 but want to know if it has presets out of the box and or, can you buy presets third party. Likeing the sound of core library. But don't want to be forever tweaking


What kind of presets do you have in mind? There are some, but if you're unfamiliar with processing drums (as the request for presets indicates, and I'm in the same boat) you're safer using the raw drum sounds because they're extremely well recorded, and build up to the sound you're looking for one effect at a time and erring on the side of raw. I'm speaking for myself but there's a danger to relying on presets with instruments or effects you aren't familiar with, especially since everything needs to be done in context and presets don't always have that context.

All that aside though what kind of preset or sound are you interested in? I'll check and see if there's something that might be useful


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## Phillip Dixon (Jun 7, 2021)

Not sure what I mean. But just watched "" "library spotlight Cory pelizzari" on you tube, like he says the samples are so well recorded he uses minimum processing just a bit of eq and compression. 
Definitely worth watching this guy 
The bit about setting articulations to velocity wonderful


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## BezO (Jun 9, 2021)

BFD 1 was my 1st drum VI, with the Jazz & Funk, XFL & 8-Bit expansions. Back then, it brought my computer to its knees, but I loved it. I can now upgrade to BFD3 for $50. With InMusic taking it over, is it safe to say there will be updates for new OSs going forward? I'll reach out to them, but they've been notoriously slow in the past.

Not that I need it. SD3 and AD2 cover most of my needs. And I have several other drum VIs that fill in the blanks. But BFD appears to be in the SD3 class regarding detail and features. For $50, and a couple of expansions that are also available for cheap right now, it's tempting.

Edit: and a free expansion with the upgrade.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 9, 2021)

BezO said:


> BFD 1 was my 1st drum VI, with the Jazz & Funk, XFL & 8-Bit expansions. Back then, it brought my computer to its knees, but I loved it. I can now upgrade to BFD3 for $50. With InMusic taking it over, is it safe to say there will be updates for new OSs going forward? I'll reach out to them, but they've been notoriously slow in the past.
> 
> Not that I need it. SD3 and AD2 cover most of my needs. And I have several other drum VIs that fill in the blanks. But BFD appears to be in the SD3 class. But for $50, and a couple of expansions that are also available for cheap right now, it's tempting.


Check the Sampletekk ones yet?


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## BezO (Jun 9, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Check the Sampletekk ones yet?


I haven't. I'm only interested in BFD3 because of the cheap upgrade. I'm really covered when it comes to drums and wouldn't be looking otherwise.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 9, 2021)

BezO said:


> I haven't. I'm only interested in BFD3 because of the cheap upgrade. I'm really covered when it comes to drums and wouldn't be looking otherwise.


Sorry - posted in completely wrong thread! Apologies


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## Robert Kooijman (Jun 10, 2021)

SD3. Probably one of my fav VSTi's. Amazing attention to detail and passion when creating / recording the instruments. Still no sample streaming, but using it in purge mode works well.


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## Kirk1701 (Jun 11, 2021)

Abbey Road 60s Drummer was my first legit drum library and I have yet to need much else. It covers a surprising amount of ground. I wish the tea towel samples were a bit more punchy/snappy, but I also don't process a lot inside Kontakt. I print to audio and mix as if I had recorded a real drummer. The sound of Abbey Road studio 2 is worth the price of admission.

I picked up Wavesfactory Legacy over the BF sales last year. I have used that brush kit a number of times. All three kits have great out-of-the-box sounds. The workflow is butt-simple too, particularly in the mixer.

The one kit I cannot seem to find anywhere is a Ginger Baker/Mitch Mitchell Ludwig double bass drum kit. That's a very widely recorded sound from Count Basie, Buddy Rich, The Who, Cream, Hendrix, all the way to Van Halen and Rush. I have yet to see this offered. I'm invested in Kontakt, so I'd prefer that format. But never look a gift horse in the mouth.


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## Gaffable (Sep 15, 2021)

HandHeldSound's MAD – RocknFunk collection of three drumkits, recommended by @re-peat in post #94 and post #153 of this thread, is currently on sale for €49 (71% off) at VST Buzz.


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## muziksculp (Sep 15, 2021)

Gaffable said:


> HandHeldSound's MAD – RocknFunk collection of three drumkits, recommended by @re-peat in post #94 and post #153 of this thread, is currently on sale for €49 (71% off) at VST Buzz.


Thanks for this info.


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Sep 20, 2021)

Hello. I recently bought HandHeldSound's MAD – RocknFunk kits; and because I'm using REAPER, I made "note/CC maps" for Blue and White kits for REAPER. In case somebody else needs those maps, I'll upload them here. (Some of the cymbals articulations are my guesses, as those aren't thoroughly described in the manual).


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## P3TAAL (Sep 20, 2021)

I have SD3 (with decades) and just bought Addictive with 3 kits. Now considering selling SD3. Although on some occasions I like to tweak I just don't have the time needed to get the sound I'm looking for in SD3. SD3 is so real in its functionality that you kind of need to be a bit of a drum head in regards to diving into the nuances of a kit. Defo not me. Just my opinion mind


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## Rossy (Sep 20, 2021)

Wedge said:


> BFD3


This is what I have been using (to trigger my DM10) long before I started to learn orchestral music. Amazing flexibility and detail.


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## lp59burst (Sep 20, 2021)

Superior Drummer 3 is my go to for the myriad reasons listed alreaddy.

But, if I just want to knock something out quick, I love *Analogue Drums* "*Plastique*" a Kontakt instrument. Great tone. easy to use, and I don't need to spend a bunch of time fiddlin' with SD3 when I just need to put down a quick simple beat. The Snare has a nice tight snap to it and the Kick cuts through the mix too without sounding to umm... "_epic_".


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## jazzman7 (Sep 20, 2021)

I liked the stuff I had but I wish I would have just cut the crap and went with Superior Drummer 3 from the start. Would have saved headaches and $$$. It sounds killer and is easy to use. Plus if I wish, It can be whatever I tweak it to be. Endless possibilities.


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## KEM (Sep 20, 2021)

GetGood Drums, the only correct answer is GetGood Drums.

Seriously, absolutely nothing better, no debate!!


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## Casiquire (Sep 21, 2021)

P3TAAL said:


> I have SD3 (with decades) and just bought Addictive with 3 kits. Now considering selling SD3. Although on some occasions I like to tweak I just don't have the time needed to get the sound I'm looking for in SD3. SD3 is so real in its functionality that you kind of need to be a bit of a drum head in regards to diving into the nuances of a kit. Defo not me. Just my opinion mind


Interesting, I've had the opposite experience. I don't know much about drums but find SD3 a really easy way to get a good sound. You don't *need* to dive into the nuances of a kit, but if i don't like the sound of, for example, a snare I'm hearing, it's simple to just play the music on repeat and swap out snares until one sounds better. But i don't often find myself needing to do that


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## Dewdman42 (Sep 21, 2021)

I have and use all of the following depending on my mood: Superior Drums 3, Addictive Drums 2, Various NI drum kits, Steven Slate Drummer 5, Jamstix, LogicPro's drummer.

The answer to this question is really that it "depends"...each of these products has its positive points. These days its rarely a hard requirement that drums sound like an authentic drum kit, unless you're a drummer playing on a midi kit or something like that. For producing music you can mix together samples and slices and whatever you feel like to create beats.....so let's not forget stuff like Giest, Tremor, Maschine, MPC, and the list goes on and on with beat making tools and possibilities.


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## from_theashes (Sep 21, 2021)

KEM said:


> GetGood Drums, the only correct answer is GetGood Drums.
> 
> Seriously, absolutely nothing better, no debate!!


This! xD


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## KEM (Sep 21, 2021)

from_theashes said:


> This! xD



I went through this entire thread and saw only like ONE other mention of GGD, which is an absolute shame. Call me a Periphery fanboy but GGD is truly better than everything else on the market, if I need acoustic drums then I use GGD exclusively and it’s staying that way


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## from_theashes (Sep 21, 2021)

KEM said:


> I went through this entire thread and saw only like ONE other mention of GGD, which is an absolute shame. Call me a Periphery fanboy but GGD is truly better than everything else on the market, if I need acoustic drums then I use GGD exclusively and it’s staying that way


Jep, me too. OKW Modern Fusion ist super versatile and easy to use in a mix, even with hybrid/orchestral-elements. For rock & metal I stay with P4 and multi-channel-mixing. That thing is just awesome!


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## Bluemount Score (Sep 21, 2021)

Mostly using NI Studio Drummer


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## KEM (Sep 21, 2021)

from_theashes said:


> Jep, me too. OKW Modern Fusion ist super versatile and easy to use in a mix, even with hybrid/orchestral-elements. For rock & metal I stay with P4 and multi-channel-mixing. That thing is just awesome!



No doubt about it!! For my metal stuff I use a combination of Invasion and P3, I plan on buying Modern & Massive just for the toms alone, they’re the best I’ve ever heard from a sample library, once I get it I’ll have the ultimate Frankenkit!!


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## Petrucci (Sep 21, 2021)

I use Steven Slate Drums 5 with some expansions, this alone has like too many drums for me..!))


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## Zanshin (Sep 21, 2021)

I have GGD Modern and Massive, and Invasion. I agree they are very good. If they were expansions for SD3?? Now that would be like fantastic.

I have SD3 with Decades, Legacy of Rock, and Death and Darkness. SD3 is a killer app, easy to learn, but tons of depth should you with to dig in. The expansions are so well done I feel like I am getting a steal at full price lol (I can only speak for the above expansions obv).

As good as the GGD stuff is, I rarely use it because it's not in SD3 and the SD3 expansions I have cover the ground I might use M & M and Invasion pretty well.


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## RedDot (Sep 21, 2021)

VSL's Synchron Power Drums doesn't get the love it deserves... It really sounds great.


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## Petrucci (Sep 21, 2021)

RedDot said:


> VSL's Synchron Power Drums doesn't get the love it deserves... It really sounds great.



I'm on the verge of getting them since it would be very convinient to have them in Synchron space already and as far as I understand they sound great with natural presets, not overly-processed ones. But now with Synchronized Historic Woodwinds being introduced I'm in a little hesitation)))


----------



## AkashicBird (Sep 22, 2021)

KEM said:


> I went through this entire thread and saw only like ONE other mention of GGD, which is an absolute shame. Call me a Periphery fanboy but GGD is truly better than everything else on the market, if I need acoustic drums then I use GGD exclusively and it’s staying that way


It sounds good but judging from the demo it doesn't seem very polyvalent? Like, can you get a natural sounding kit? Or just kits that are less metal and more adapted to other genres?


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## Petrucci (Sep 22, 2021)

There's new expansion for SSD5 btw, sounds nice:





__





Patrick Carney Expansion - Steven Slate Drums


The dirtiest, fattest, most vibey vintage drums sampled and recorded by Black Keys drummer Patrick Carney - now available exclusively for SSD and Trigger.




stevenslatedrums.com


----------



## devonmyles (Sep 22, 2021)

Groove Agent 5 (full) and Stylus RMX.

GA5 is a beast with a lot under the hood that I've only just found out about.

I have a few expansion kits for RMX as well. I know it's an oldie, but still a goody for my needs.


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## KEM (Sep 22, 2021)

AkashicBird said:


> It sounds good but judging from the demo it doesn't seem very polyvalent? Like, can you get a natural sounding kit? Or just kits that are less metal and more adapted to other genres?



They have their One Kit Wonders which are specifically made to sound like other genres but they’re pretty heavily processed and don’t have much flexibility, Modern & Massive is very versatile though and can pretty much fit in any genre, and it has by far the best toms I’ve ever heard


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## Eckoes (Sep 22, 2021)

I have too many drum libraries.

I just purchased SD3 and after using it for a few weeks I’m pretty sure everything else has become obsolete.

Feels like I wasted money on BFD and the libraries that came with K12U, but I did get good use of them for a few years. And I’ll likely keep using the Abbey Road 60’s kit when I need to get that sound quickly but still…SD3 is so good that I can’t help but feel like I should sell the others.

I guess that’s the nature of this addiction.


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## WWBiscuit (Sep 22, 2021)

SD3 is the workhorse library for me. Its attention to detail is unparalleled. Plus I can use the EZX Expansions there. But I do have a few other libraries around the fringes that hit certain sweet spots. Really like the sound of UJAM's 'Deep.' VSL Jass Drums is pretty cool. And I've just picked up MODO Drums in the IKM sale - haven't tried them out yet, though.


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## Trash Panda (Sep 22, 2021)

I must be the only person who doesn’t like GGD Modern and Massive. Can’t put my finger on what it is, but I just prefer the sound of AD2 and MODO drums.


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## KEM (Sep 22, 2021)

GGD is actually having a 30% off store wide sale, now is definitely the time to go pick something up!!


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Sep 22, 2021)

Man - I'd never even heard of GGD until this thread but I gotta say, I went from no idea how to mix drums (let alone use this library) and got this out of my first session (the whole song is still WIP)
View attachment Drum Test.mp3


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## MusiquedeReve (Sep 22, 2021)

I am selling my SD3 Orchestral Edition

It is such an in-depth library and is above my pay grade when it comes to writing for drums - I am going to find something a bit simpler


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## Robo Rivard (Sep 22, 2021)

MorphineNoir said:


> I am selling my SD3 Orchestral Edition
> 
> It is such an in-depth library and is above my pay grade when it comes to writing for drums - I am going to find something a bit simpler


Go for it guys!... SDX Orchestral Percussion is my "Go To" library for orchestral percussions!


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## MusiquedeReve (Sep 22, 2021)

Robo Rivard said:


> Go for it guys!... SDX Orchestral Percussion is my "Go To" library for orchestral percussions!


Thanks for the promotion - I have it listed in the For sale forum here on VIC


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## KEM (Sep 22, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Man - I'd never even heard of GGD until this thread but I gotta say, I went from no idea how to mix drums (let alone use this library) and got this out of my first session (the whole song is still WIP)
> View attachment Drum Test.mp3



Exactly my point, GGD just sounds GOOD, you put them in a mix and they just sit, hardly any work is needed to get something that cuts through a mix but blends will with everything else


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## darkogav (Sep 23, 2021)

Good link for demos.






Native Instruments







www.native-instruments.com





GGD sounds too metal /hard rock for my tastes. The Soniccouture stuff sounds really nice.


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## Voider (Sep 23, 2021)

For non-orchestral music I mostly use DM-307 by Heavyocity, it's a huge drum machine with many different kits, and on top of that some samples that I post process in a fashion I need them. For orchestral stuff, I have Tupans X3M by Strezov Sampling and Master Ensemble Drums by Heavyocity, if I combine them wisely I can achieve a lot just with these two, which fits my needs for orchestral/hybrid stuff.

I have used them both almost exclusively in this one:


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## SteveC (Sep 23, 2021)

I'm not a big fan of the Toontrack sound, and yet I have a lot of EZX. Toontrack sounds too polished for my taste, so I never bought Superior Drummer. Sometimes I use EZXs and sometimes addictive drums. But what I really love is BFD. I don't know of any other drum software that comes close to this unpolished and close sound. I bought BFD because I wanted to recreate this sound and BFD was the only program where the HiHat crashed so nicely.


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## RMatute (Sep 23, 2021)

re-peat said:


> So far, I’ve always used them in their entirety. (It’s only when I use Toontrack drums that I'll bring in hats and cymbals from other libraries.)
> 
> A tiny word of warning with regard to the Handheld kits: you might get a little confused at first with the way the bleed is implemented: those little dials at the bottom of the Mix tab will cycle, everytime you click on them, through various bleed settings among two components of the kit. It’s a somewhat awkward way to do things, I find, and I thought I would get used to it but so far, I can’t say that I have. But it’s important that you know about it because the bleed sound is an essential part of Handheld’s fabulous drumsound.
> 
> ...



Thnx R for these very helpful comments. I will go with HandHeld's MAD -- at $58 is seems a steal!

My greatest difficulty was finding a drum library that was not TOO Rock. I need the sounds of Steve Gadd, Stewart Copeland, Bernard Purdie, etc. Hi Hats are very important and the Hi Hat Engine in MAD looks to be quite helpful. 

My 2nd choice would have been Palace Rock Drums (https://www.loopsdelacreme.com/palace-rock-drums), which has many nice playability features, but is just too narrowly Rock sounding.

Loops de la creme also has a Timbales VI (https://www.loopsdelacreme.com/timbales-deluxe) that looks very useful and playable for injecting a "world beat" sound into a normal drumset.

Thanks to all for this great thread!


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## AlexSonicsMusic (Sep 23, 2021)

I love and swear by RealiDrums. Super flexible, lovely sound, midi import for 99 dollars! That was the steal of my life.


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## AkashicBird (Sep 23, 2021)

RMatute said:


> Thnx R for these very helpful comments. I will go with HandHeld's MAD -- at $58 is seems a steal!


I see it at $199 tho, what did I miss?



KEM said:


> They have their One Kit Wonders which are specifically made to sound like other genres but they’re pretty heavily processed and don’t have much flexibility, Modern & Massive is very versatile though and can pretty much fit in any genre, and it has by far the best toms I’ve ever heard



Yeah does sound nice actually. Good price and Kontakt player too, thinking about giving it a shot if it can actually sound decently natural (I know most people actually want the opposite with mix ready, I just like natural sounds, -sometimes pretty dry- and having the choice)


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Sep 23, 2021)

AkashicBird said:


> I see it at $199 tho, what did I miss?


Check the VSTbuzz.com








71% off "MAD - RocknFunk" by HandHeldSound


"MAD - RocknFunk" is 3 Complete Drum kits with a total of 20GB of content and 24,000+ samples that feature an integrated hi-end environment for producing uber realistic drum grooves with maximum nuance and impact!




vstbuzz.com





After a few days with it, my biggest nags are:
1. Dry (White) kit has no ride cymbal,
2. Only one snare (tuning) a kit,
3. No universal mapping (one for all three kits)
4. No "help" pop-ups (in the bottom of the Kontakt window).


----------



## AkashicBird (Sep 23, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Check the VSTbuzz.com
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice, thanks!

Do you mean you can't import snares (or other kit pieces) from one kit to another? Aw...
(anyone knows if GGD Modern and massive can?)


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel (Sep 23, 2021)

AkashicBird said:


> Nice, thanks!
> 
> Do you mean you can't import snares (or other kit pieces) from one kit to another? Aw...
> (anyone knows if GGD Modern and massive can?)


Well the snare mapping is mostly (not completely) the same between three kits, so you can "borrow" them using different midi channels; but they were recorded in completely different rooms so you'll have to do some work to "marry" them.


----------



## darkogav (Sep 24, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Check the VSTbuzz.com
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. Was looking at MAD as I keep hearing good things. Has anyone compared this to 8dios's drums. Ragnarock or Blackbird? IIRC, you could have gotten the 8dio ones for $38 each not too long ago.


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## KEM (Sep 24, 2021)

GGD is not limited to metal at all, they have versatility


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## juven (Sep 24, 2021)

RMatute said:


> I used Steve Gadd Drumscores with Sample Cell, Audiowerks/Logic in the late 1990s and was very happy with them. Used the single shots only, as my music required me to create my own MIDI grooves. These were for backing tracks used in live performance (live streaming out of Logic). Fortunately they translated well to .wav, .mp3 files.
> 
> I believe Q-Up Arts re-released these in 2 volumes in 2015.
> 
> ...


It's still hard to find a good, tight Steve Gadd style drum library.
I still use a program from a sampling CD-ROM that Steve Gadd and Q Up Arts put out in the 90s.
It only has about three velocity layers.
This YT video uses that program.


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## RMatute (Sep 25, 2021)

juven said:


> It's still hard to find a good, tight Steve Gadd style drum library.
> I still use a program from a sampling CD-ROM that Steve Gadd and Q Up Arts put out in the 90s.
> It only has about three velocity layers.
> This YT video uses that program.



Hello Juven,
Thank you for your comment. I feel that I have finally been understood!
Your tracks sound really nice to my ears. Its actually comforting and what I want to hear from drum samples.

What is the name of this program you used for these tracks? Can you show a screen shot of it?

I'll see what I can do about getting samples of my work with the Steve Gadd samples up on youTube as you have.

Great to hear from you and to know that someone else out there "gets it."

The Gadd samples & loops are still available: https://www.quparts.com/product-p/gaddexs.htm


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## juven (Sep 26, 2021)

RMatute said:


> Hello Juven,
> Thank you for your comment. I feel that I have finally been understood!
> Your tracks sound really nice to my ears. Its actually comforting and what I want to hear from drum samples.
> 
> ...


Thanks.
The midi programming is rough and not quite SteveGadd's rhythm, but the sound is rightfully Gadd's.

The screenshots don't help much.
There are only two kits on this CD-ROM, and each kit has a total of four programs, one mono and one stereo.
Load all four of them into KONTAKT.
When you play midi, four programs will sound at the same time, and you have to mix them to get the right balance.
A good balance point depends on the song.
Then I just apply a colorless compressor like Unisum or Fircomp to the drum track.

Also, there was a drum library for Kontakt called "OneUpDrums" that was released from Japan in the mid-00s. It was a wonderfully tight drum library, and one program in it called "Stuff" had a hotter Gadd-style sound.
This is a sound file I made with that program.


----------



## evenfell (Sep 26, 2021)

I use 3 . Toontrack EZ drummer 2, Addictive drums, and Ugritone (for metal)
Im looking into get good drums and Steven slate drums


----------



## AkashicBird (Sep 28, 2021)

Has anyone ever tried Roomsound drums? They look pretty decent with all the right options, but they don't seem to be discussed at all online for some reason.



Beau Burchell Signature Series Drums




Blasting Room Signature Series Drums




Jay Maas Signature Series Drums




Kurt Ballou Signature Series Drums Volume 1




Unrelated and not sure it's the right thread for this, since we mostly seem to talk about accoustic, but what electronic kits/plugins do you use or recommand? 
Free is nice (duh), but any suggestion welcome. I've been using Sitala with various samples so far, but I kind of want to limit my time crafting certain sounds (I might actualy get back at it later) and get more done actually writing, so I'm looking for any plugins that offer premade kits, with a certain amount of txeakablity allowed of course. I usually don't write with electronic sounds for drums, so not sure where to start. Can range anywhere from old school drum machines to more creative, even glitchy stuff.


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## bill5 (Sep 28, 2021)

I have EZDrummer but I still keep going back to MT Power Drum Kit (free). pblblblt.


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## AkashicBird (Sep 28, 2021)

MT is great for free but a bit limited (no overhead or room mics...and only one mic for snare and kick, but at least overhead would be nice). For free rock/metal sounding kits, I'd rather use SSD5.

By the way, not sure I've read this elsewhere, but I mailed the maker or MTPowerdrumkit and asked if they had plans on developping the plugin with more kits/options...they said it's in the plans but it will take a while.


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## bill5 (Sep 28, 2021)

I need to check SSD5. I just like the sound of MT overall.


----------



## rougue (Oct 5, 2021)

Re: BFD on an M1 Mac. BFD3.4 works fine in Rosetta mode. Both in Logic and Cubase.

BFD 
sounds the "realest" (most organic) of all (that I've tried). And blatantly has the most variance in terms of different acoustic drum sounds. However, it doesn't play so well with my E-Drums. Just seems to lack response and dynamics. This is most probably a fault of the presets I'm using. I'm hoping it will respond better if I tinker with the dynamics settings and velocity responses.
They've chosen and interesting variety of drums to sample. Just not sure they recorded all the low hits very well.

Superior Drummer
I still can't understand the hype around Superior Drummer. But the Legacy Of Rock Expansion is probably the best one I tried. Decades and Hansa are also very good expansions. But most of the others are kinda bland.

Steven Slate Drums
I have been playing with Slate SSD5.5 Free Edition. This responds excellently for eDrummers. And although it (like Superior) is generally bland and "plastic-ish", I am *very tempted* to purchase the full version (although it's overkill considering what I already have). I do enjoy using it with my Yamaha E-Kit especially considering i generally find eDrums painful to play. 

Note:
I don't really do electronic nor metal music, so this is reflected in my tastes. Prefer world, funk, Alternative, motown type stuff.


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## Petrucci (Oct 5, 2021)

rougue said:


> Re: BFD on an M1 Mac. BFD3.4 works fine in Rosetta mode. Both in Logic and Cubase.
> 
> BFD
> sounds the "realest" (most organic) of all (that I've tried). And blatantly has the most variance in terms of different acoustic drum sounds. However, it doesn't play so well with my E-Drums. Just seems to lack response and dynamics. This is most probably a fault of the presets I'm using. I'm hoping it will respond better if I tinker with the dynamics settings and velocity responses.
> ...



I believe there's only 1 drumkit in SSD5 free Edition? There is so much more content in SSD5! I'm tempted by new expansion, sounds very nice)


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## MichaelBogaMusic (Oct 7, 2021)

I would say it depends on the style of music. Atm i'm using Superior Drummer 3 but i'd love to get some products from GGD, they are insane!


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 7, 2021)

I was considering buying GGD Modern&Massive when it was on sale last week, but for me it lacks articulations (most importantly snare articulations, but more elaborate hi-hat would also be welcome).


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## Pier (Oct 7, 2021)

KEM said:


> GGD is not limited to metal at all, they have versatility



I mean... that is metal ish.


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## Pier (Oct 7, 2021)

It should be noted that AD2 kit presets are heavily produced. Each piece of each kit of each preset has EQ, compression, distortion, volume and pitch shaping, etc.







You can of course disable all that to get the raw recordings (close and room mics) of each kit piece which are excellent.

AD2 is really a bible on drum production for a number of styles (metal, jazz, etc).

SD3 is more realistic (and expensive) than AD2 but IMO you really need to use it an electronic drumkit to extract all its power.


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## KEM (Oct 7, 2021)

Pier said:


> I mean... that is metal ish.



It gets a little bit of a rock vibe towards the end by the drum kit itself is definitely versatile, GGD isn’t as limited to one sound as people think they are, I think they’re the best on the market, period


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## holywilly (Oct 10, 2021)

Anyone has the latest Fields of Rock SDX? I’m seeking for honest opinion on this one.


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## re-peat (Oct 11, 2021)

Here’s a little trick to increase the ‘acousticness’ of a drum kit: *add snare buzz*.

Snare buzz, the ‘sympathetic’ rattling of the snaredrum wires caused most frequently by the toms or a nearby bass guitar amp, is something that frustrates most drummers (and engineers) enormously, and understandably so, and on YouTube you can find countless videos with tips on how to reduce the phenomenon, but without it, a drumkit often sounds unpleasantly sanitized and strangely sterile, I find. Excessive snare buzz is a major irritant, no doubt about it, but no buzz at all is no good either. In my opinion anyway.

The old (and no longer available) Sampleheadz "Peter Erskine Living Drums" library came with two sets of tom samples: one with and one without snare buzz, and I’ve always preferred the former. Simply sounded more drums-like to me.

The drum software I work most with these days, Toontrack’s Superior Drummer 3, doesn’t have snare buzz — well, it does, a bit, but nowhere near how I like it —, nor do any of the other drum libraries which I have, so I've been searching for ways to add it in a simple but convincing way.

Been listening to a few of these ‘how to remove snare buzz’ videos on YouTube and got the idea that maybe a simple burst of noise, overlayed on the toms, might do the trick, but it turned out that it doesn’t: clearly, there’s more to snare buzz than just pink or white noise. So my next idea was to rip the audio from some of these videos, isolate the fragments that demonstrate best what snare buzz is and then process these fragments with a high-pass filter so that only the buzz sound would remain. And the results of this approach sound more promising. Not 100% perfect yet, but I’m getting closer, I think.

Here’s an example of *a Toontrack kit without snare buzz*. And this is *the same thing but with some buzz added*.

(After you’ve isolated and processed the buzz audio example, you save the result as a new audiofile which you then import in your sampler of choice where you give it an envelope and velocity settings that more or less correspond with how snare buzz behaves in reality. And you map the buzz sample to the same notes as those the toms of your virtual drums are mapped to.
Next, duplicate your drum track to the track that has the sampler with the buzz patch loaded. The result should be that everytime a tom is hit, the buzz noise is triggered as well. All you have to do now is balance the two and, if required, make it appear as if the buzz noise is happening in the same space as the drums.)

During my search, I also discovered that Wavesfactory, apparently entertaining similar thoughts as I do with regard to the importance of snare buzz in a (virtual) acoustic drumkit, actually developed a plugin to add snare buzz to a virtual drums performance: *SnareBuzz*. On the whole, it’s reasonably well done, but unfortunately, the buzz of the snare wires sounds, to my ears at least, more like a sort of shaker. Quite unconvincing. Pity. If Wavesfactory only could have included more believable buzz samples in this plugin, this would have been great solution. But it isn't.

_


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## Bee_Abney (Oct 11, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Here’s a little trick to increase the ‘acousticness’ of a drum kit: *add snare buzz*.
> 
> Snare buzz, the ‘sympathetic’ rattling of the snaredrum wires caused most frequently by the toms or a nearby bass guitar amp, is something that frustrates most drummers (and engineers) enormously, and understandably so, and on YouTube you can find countless videos with tips on how to reduce the phenomenon, but without it, a drumkit often sounds unpleasantly sanitized and strangely sterile, I find. Excessive snare buzz is a major irritant, no doubt about it, but no buzz at all is no good either. In my opinion anyway.
> 
> ...


Very nicely done. And I agree that the snare buzz greatly enhances the realism of the drums.

I wonder if it would be possible to use the snare buzz from the snare of the virtual drum kit by treating the sample with a transient shaper.

For drum kits in Kontakt or other samplers where you can get at the sample maps, you can add the snare buzz directly on top of the tom samples. If you have multiple snare buzzes for different velocities, you can also arrange those there too. That way, you won’t just get louder snare buzz for higher velocities, but you could alter it in other ways too (frequency resonance and duration, say). I’m not sure how far snare buzz alters under impact, but I would expect some changes. If - and that’s a big if - you can isolate the buzz from the kits own snare samples, that should cover the variations.


----------



## doctoremmet (Oct 11, 2021)

On snare buzz, I also recommend this library. Great for layering. Comes with WAVs too. Excellent stuff.









Frankensnare


Snares which are huge, monstrous, organic and alive. Just like Dr. Viktor Frankenstein tried to put together the best parts of various humans, Frankensnare lets you create your own snares from a wide array of acoustic snare samples, from giants the diameter of a kick drum to a tiny 10" one, and...



shop.karoryfer.com


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## TomislavEP (Oct 11, 2021)

I don't use drumkits in my music very often so I'm quite content with the options that I have in Komplete 12. Most often, I go for Studio Drummer but Abbey Road 60's Drummer is my favorite sound-wise. There are also quite a few very usable kits in Kontakt Factory Library.

The only alternative to the mentioned products that use from time to time is the drumkit that is included in Spitfire Labs (Ollie Waton Drums, I think).


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## Bee_Abney (Oct 11, 2021)

The transient shaper worked a bit. I tried it on some of Frankensnare's softer snare samples. It might be good enough - I added multiple instances of Native Instrument's Transient Master to turn the impact down even lower.

If it works as advertised, Waves Factory's Quantum should be able to turn the attack of the snare down to zero.

Which, as an aside, means that you could use Quantum to send the attack and sustain of a drum, or any other sound, to different effects buses. So, not only does Quantum have inbuilt effects that can be applied separately and differently to attack and sustain, you can also use it to divide apply any other effects you have the same way. (You would do this with two instances of Quantum. One send goes to a bus with the sustain turned all the way down; the other send goes to a bus with the attack turned all the way down.) I really want to try out Quantum now to see if it can really do all of this!


----------



## DSmolken (Oct 11, 2021)

Hmm... if I was going to model this... Try skipping like the first quarter-second of the sample, then applying an enevelope to fade in the rest. Leave out the snare top mic. And this is probably important, apply a velocity response that will get no buzz on low-velocity notes, with the threshold where the buzz starts being pretty low for the kick, maybe around 40 or 50 for the floor tom, and getting higher for the smaller toms. And if the buzz is too long, it'll also need to have env sustain set to 0 and an appropriate decay time set, probably again shorter for the smaller toms, and maybe going up slightly with velocity.

Not sure if you have to use the snare that actually comes with your kit to avoid sounding all wrong, but maybe you don't. Snare buzz is noise, and with noise you can often get away with a lot of wrong.


----------



## Bee_Abney (Oct 11, 2021)

DSmolken said:


> Hmm... if I was going to model this... Try skipping like the first quarter-second of the sample, then applying an enevelope to fade in the rest. Leave out the snare top mic. And this is probably important, apply a velocity response that will get no buzz on low-velocity notes, with the threshold where the buzz starts being pretty low for the kick, maybe around 40 or 50 for the floor tom, and getting higher for the smaller toms. And if the buzz is too long, it'll also need to have env sustain set to 0 and an appropriate decay time set, probably again shorter for the smaller toms, and maybe going up slightly with velocity.
> 
> Not sure if you have to use the snare that actually comes with your kit to avoid sounding all wrong, but maybe you don't. Snare buzz is noise, and with noise you can often get away with a lot of wrong.


Brilliant, great insights.

Quantum was overcomplicating the matters if an envelope does the trick as per @re-peat's practice.

At the risk of making you think that you'll get new product requests every time you post here, when can we expect the arrival of Frankenoise? An easily remappable kit made up entirely of sympathetic noises, with your choice of drummer voice (Marie Ork for me, please) for grunts and curses?


----------



## doctoremmet (Oct 11, 2021)

No way Bee. I want that Japanese anime choir first. Karoryfer Kawai Koir.


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 11, 2021)

Texture by Devious Machines is a plugin that gives you great control over adding noise (or other samples) to a signal. (I remember making a footsteps in snow out of just footsteps sample in about 10 minutes of fiddling with it).


----------



## Bee_Abney (Oct 11, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Texture by Devious Machines is a plugin that gives you great control over adding noise (or other samples) to a signal. (I remember making a footsteps in snow out of just footsteps sample in about 10 minutes of fiddling with it).


That looks fantastic. What a terrific product. Part sample editor, part synth.


----------



## danevaz (Oct 11, 2021)

I also use Addictive Drums for rock and light jazz material. The brushes, Latin percussion, and mallets kits get a lot of use. I like mixing and matching - take a rock groove and use the mallets kit, take a Samba groove and use a pop kit. And as someone noted earlier in this thread, the out of the box kits are heavily processed. I create a custom kit for each kit I own with all effects, reverb, compression, etc., turned off. 
Also keep an eye on the room mic levels in the mixer. I tend to turn them down for a tighter, "closer" sound. I don't play the AD kits via e-drums or do any finger drumming, I just use midi grooves. For rock, pop, and bossa, fusiony/jazzy stuff they sound really good.


----------



## halfwalk (Oct 11, 2021)

I think Superior Drummer 3 is Where It's At right now. The engine is so flexible once you start digging in (want snare buzz? load in your own sample and layer it with the various drums, set up your velocity gate/envelope, and mix it in). The unprocessed tone is wonderful, and the mixer is robust enough (with pretty decent effects too) that you can pretty much do the bulk of your work inside the plugin (bussing, mixing, processing, bleed) rather than cluttering up your DAW's mixer with a dozen or two tracks and folders. And playing it feels pretty good, at least after tweaking the mapping and velocity response to fit your preferred play style (and the systems for doing so are easy and flexible). And the raw samples, even without any mixing or processing mojo, sound awesome right out of the box.

Addictive Drums sounds okay, but starts to fall apart when actually playing it; the level of detail in the samples leaves a lot to be desired. In a mix, it can work. And there's nice variety of content in the various packs. But in my opinion as a drummer, it's just not deeply sampled enough to be convincing.

BFD, I haven't tried most of the expansions, but I just do not get on with the raw sound of the recordings. I don't care for the room in particular, but that's just personal taste. It takes a bit of work mixing the kits to sound good (but they definitely can sound great if you put the time in). Don't get me wrong, BFD is great, but it just feels like extra work sometimes, to get it to fit what I'm trying to do.

Native Instruments Abbey Road/Drummer series are alright, if you like what they are going for. But you can't go too deep with the customization here without doing some Kontakt/DAW hackery. Mixing-wise, you can get a raw sound and buss it how you want (though you're still fairly limited tonally for the most part), but the mapping aspect leaves a bit to be desired (if you're the kind to get into velocity-based splits and whatnot). You get a fun, playable sound out of the box, but if that's not the sound you want, there's only so much you can do. The AR 60's Late kit lets you switch to tea-towel-muted articulations, which is pretty cool. This was my go-to kit for years, before branching out into the larger world of drum VIs. There is enough going on with the velocity layers to make it feel responsive when playing it. Studio Drummer's hihats have a weird, resonant, ringing sound (like a high pitched beep in the tail) that annoys the heck out of me though.

MODO Drum is hot garbage. Perhaps my most regretted VI purchase.


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## Bee_Abney (Oct 11, 2021)

Well, this thread is a good reminder that there is drum vst software out there that can do a lot and save you doing it in your DAW. Perhaps because I am still working my way up the steep learning curves of my DAW, sound design, production, etc., I rather like handling things with the bits of the software I can already use well.

I have been building up a lot of plugins for shaping sounds and learning to use them, so can they be applied inside of software such as Superior Drummer 3?

I generally don't go for drum kits in the popular music combination vein; when I do, my favourite by far for the sound is 8Dio's Advanced Drum Blackbird. I generally do the bass drums and toms in one pass, and the high hat and cymbals in another pass; but it varies depending on the rhythm and such. If it is simple enough, I'll do it all in one pass. Usually several complete takes, and then more specific parts of the track. Then tidying up in the piano roll if needed. I find that quantisation ruins whatever I was aiming to do so, sadly, it isn't much help.

Either I shall have recorded the different parts of the kit going to different tracks, or I'll redistribute them across several tracks afterwards.

I'm worried now that I'm a drumming philistine. If it helps, I only paid $40 for the kit in one of 8Dio's shorter but even more generous sales.

If I want a kit for jazz, or played with brushes, then I'd pick something else. But more often, I just go for alternative forms of percussion anyway rather than this sort of drum kit.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 11, 2021)

Why worry if your current flow works for you? FWIW, Blackbird happens to be a pretty good drum source for me as well. I’m also partial to Karoryfer’s libraries and (through this very thread) I’ve discovered & added GGD and Loopsdelacreme stuff (Manhattan drums for jazz). I kind of like to keep things simple. I also have MDrummer but most of the times I do not feel like investing a lot of time in a new workflow, when my current one still sonically satisfies me


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## Bee_Abney (Oct 11, 2021)

Oops, I missed out the snare - I record that with the bass drum and toms.


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## Bee_Abney (Oct 11, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Why worry if your current flow works for you? FWIW, Blackbird happens to be a pretty good drum source for me as well. I’m also partial to Karoryfer’s libraries and (through this very thread) I’ve discovered & added GGD and Loopsdelacreme stuff (Manhattan drums for jazz). I kind of like to keep things simple. I also have MDrummer but most of the times I do not feel like investing a lot of time in a new workflow, when my current one still sonically satisfies me


Well, that's great advice! I have used Karoryfer's Swirly Drums a lot - great for a combination of punk with jazz, psychobilly and such.


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## KEM (Oct 11, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Why worry if your current flow works for you? FWIW, Blackbird happens to be a pretty good drum source for me as well. I’m also partial to Karoryfer’s libraries and (through this very thread) I’ve discovered & added GGD and Loopsdelacreme stuff (Manhattan drums for jazz). I kind of like to keep things simple. I also have MDrummer but most of the times I do not feel like investing a lot of time in a new workflow, when my current one still sonically satisfies me



All the drums I use in my metal songs are GGD, that alone should convince you…


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## doctoremmet (Oct 11, 2021)

KEM said:


> All the drums I use in my metal songs are GGD, that alone should convince you…


One day I will say: see that composer in the credits of that blockbuster? I knew him way back in the TENET days and we had a chat about drum samples.


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## sostenuto (Oct 11, 2021)

danevaz said:


> I also use Addictive Drums for rock and light jazz material. The brushes, Latin percussion, and mallets kits get a lot of use. I like mixing and matching - take a rock groove and use the mallets kit, take a Samba groove and use a pop kit. And as someone noted earlier in this thread, the out of the box kits are heavily processed. I create a custom kit for each kit I own with all effects, reverb, compression, etc., turned off.
> Also keep an eye on the room mic levels in the mixer. I tend to turn them down for a tighter, "closer" sound. I don't play the AD kits via e-drums or do any finger drumming, I just use midi grooves. For rock, pop, and bossa, fusiony/jazzy stuff they sound really good.





danevaz said:


> I also use Addictive Drums for rock and light jazz material. The brushes, Latin percussion, and mallets kits get a lot of use. I like mixing and matching - take a rock groove and use the mallets kit, take a Samba groove and use a pop kit. And as someone noted earlier in this thread, the out of the box kits are heavily processed. I create a custom kit for each kit I own with all effects, reverb, compression, etc., turned off.
> Also keep an eye on the room mic levels in the mixer. I tend to turn them down for a tighter, "closer" sound. I don't play the AD kits via e-drums or do any finger drumming, I just use midi grooves. For rock, pop, and bossa, fusiony/jazzy stuff they sound really good.


Several choices here, yet ADD2 + several _adds, _is fav lib. Main frustration is 'seeming' lack of Bossa for live piano /keyboard backing. Could use many grooves, kits, and not found much. 😢


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## KEM (Oct 11, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> One day I will say: see that composer in the credits of that blockbuster? I knew him way back in the TENET days and we had a chat about drum samples.



Oh don’t worry, I’m sure you’ll be getting a credit right under my name as a synth programmer, I’ll always need custom synth patches!!


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## Learningtomix (Oct 11, 2021)

This has been a good thread to read!

I have AD2 and have used it quite a bit. I am quite satisfied with the sounds. I also have IKMultimedia kits now, thanks to the group buy, and these also sound fine for my purposes. 

My keyboard controller is the main limiting factor I run up against. Any attempt to play at speed is destined to fail, as the keys do not release in time, and my fingers get into a tangle! Drawing in midi drum notes with a mouse is not my idea of fun, and so my drum results are poor. 

So a dedicated midi drum controller is on my medium term wishlist. The Alesis Strike Multipad seems to be feature rich at the £500 pricepoint, which is as much as I would want to pay for such a device.


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## Trash Panda (Oct 11, 2021)

halfwalk said:


> MODO Drum is hot garbage. Perhaps my most regretted VI purchase.


Spicy take! What is it about MODO drums that you dislike and what genres do you normally work in? 

I use a lightly modified version of the Djentleman Ice Cream preset in MODO and it sounds fantastic in metal mixes to my ears.


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## Bee_Abney (Oct 11, 2021)

Learningtomix said:


> This has been a good thread to read!
> 
> I have AD2 and have used it quite a bit. I am quite satisfied with the sounds. I also have IKMultimedia kits now, thanks to the group buy, and these also sound fine for my purposes.
> 
> ...


I can't comment on the Alesis, but I think you will find it much easier with drum pads. I still use keys much of the time, but I use my QuNeo drum pads to really get into it. Full price around £200, but I got it second hand for half that. I would like something I could play with sticks and pedals, but it isn't a priority.


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## Learningtomix (Oct 11, 2021)

Thanks 


Bee_Abney said:


> I can't comment on the Alesis, but I think you will find it much easier with drum pads. I still use keys much of the time, but I use my QuNeo drum pads to really get into it. Full price around £200, but I got it second hand for half that. I would like something I could play with sticks and pedals, but it isn't a priority.


Thanks for the heads up, Bee! I'll check out the QuNeo's pads.


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## KEM (Oct 11, 2021)

I have an Alesis drumkit, it’s not bad except for the kick pad, it doesn’t register a lot of the hits when doing fast doubles and stuff


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## halfwalk (Oct 11, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Spicy take! What is it about MODO drums that you dislike and what genres do you normally work in?
> 
> I use a lightly modified version of the Djentleman Ice Cream preset in MODO and it sounds fantastic in metal mixes to my ears.


The snares have a sort of uncanny valley thing going on. There seems to be a weird spongy feeling to some of them, and others have this raspy, papery quality that just doesn't sound quite right. And there's a weird, kind of overpowering "tubey" resonance on about half of them that I can't seem to tame with the available parameters. (and a lot of those parameters basically feel like I'm simply adjusting a filter cutoff)

I can't turn the snare wires off at all. IK choosing to leave out something as basic as that seems like a major oversight to me.

The toms sound a bit synthy for me, granted I like a little more "dead" tom sound personally. This can be worked around to some extent with a transient shaper though. I'll put towels on my own acoustic kit sometimes. The Damp knob in the element editor just doesn't do it.

The "overhead" does not sound like overheads at all. It's way too boxy and roomy, and completely lacks any detail. And there is no way to put crash/china in the Overhead channel either. How the hell can you have overheads with _no crashes in them at all_?

And speaking of crashes, what did they hit them with? Wet towels? There's no stick at all. And no way to choke them (just a "catch" articulation, which has a hit already baked into it). And no tip or bell hits, just "edge." Very inflexible, with absolute barebones articulations (and barely, at that).

The cymbals feel like they are not in the same space as the rest of the drums at all. There's so much room in the cymbals that it just makes the kit lack cohesion in my opinion.

The rides are alright-ish, but holy stick noise! And the articulations for the rides; they say "edge" but really mean "tip," as there actually _isn't _an edge articulation for the rides (i.e. you can't "crash" the rides). And again, no mute/choke.

And then there's the inconsistency across articulations in the hi-hats. The Vintage and IK hi-hats are consistent, but with the Elegance hats, it's as though a different performer got different instructions on what the articulations meant. So switching to those hats means switching to a different key mapping entirely.

The MIDI mapping just doesn't cut it for how I work. I need more control; I have a custom keyboard mapping I use for finger drumming that I've been using and tweaking for like 20 years now, and MODO simply will not accommodate it unless I use additional plugins to alter the MIDI going in. Hell, I can't even map two different keys to the same drum, which is pretty essential for me. I can't do velocity splits (i.e. hitting a note at one velocity triggers one articulation, while a higher velocity triggers a separate articulation). Other dedicated drum VI's are lightyears ahead in this regard.

And then there's the total lack of anything beyond sticks. No mallets, no brushes, no hot rods.

The sound is one thing; it's synthesized (besides the cymbals) so whatever, I guess that's understandable. But it also just doesn't have the features/workflow/quality-of-life I would expect from a dedicated drum VI. If you can coax some usable sounds out of it, that's awesome. But it just does not work for me.

As for genres, I guess I tend to gravitate toward psych/prog/math rock with a more sort of indie sound. But I'm a drummer more than anything else, so maybe that's why I have such a nitpicky opinion about it. It's like when the violin players here talk about how synthy and fake even the well-regarded string libraries are, I guess.


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## Russell Anderson (Oct 12, 2021)

MDrummer came in MXXX, and it’s awesome. Between it and the free version of AD2, and the other cinematic percussion libraries, I feel kitted out of my mind.


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## KEM (Oct 13, 2021)

I would like to have Chris Turner as my go-to drum kit one day...


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## sostenuto (Oct 13, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> I can't comment on the Alesis, but I think you will find it much easier with drum pads. I still use keys much of the time, but I use my QuNeo drum pads to really get into it. Full price around £200, but I got it second hand for half that. I would like something I could play with sticks and pedals, but it isn't a priority.


THX for this suggestion ! Have 8-Pads on Axiom Pro-61 (purchased new long ago), but not ideal. QuNeo Keith McM 3D pad was not on list, but eBay (U.S.) has several used ones which seem worthy. 
Monitoring now and maybe will get lucky ! 🍀


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## Bee_Abney (Oct 13, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> THX for this suggestion ! Have 8-Pads on Axiom Pro-61 (purchased new long ago), but not ideal. QuNeo Keith McM 3D pad was not on list, but eBay (U.S.) has several used ones which seem worthy.
> Monitoring now and maybe will get lucky ! 🍀


You might do. My QuNeo is my first set of drum pads except for the ones I had on my Arturia Mini (before I left it on a train), but it is very versatile as a controller and plays well for percussion and other things. Good luck!


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## sostenuto (Oct 21, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> I can't comment on the Alesis, but I think you will find it much easier with drum pads. I still use keys much of the time, but I use my QuNeo drum pads to really get into it. Full price around £200, but I got it second hand for half that. I would like something I could play with sticks and pedals, but it isn't a priority.


'_Lazarus_' post _ can you update briefly your impressions with QuNeo ? 
@ doctoremmet has 'colored' the well with Ableton PUSH 2 post. Watching eBay offer now.
Nice, 'mint' deal on Arturia - BeatStep Pro as well. Focus in almost totally drum pads, having Axiom Pro61 and NI-KK S49. 
Sorry for pester ! 😢


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## Bee_Abney (Oct 21, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> '_Lazarus_' post _ can you update briefly your impressions with QuNeo ?
> @ doctoremmet has 'colored' the well with Ableton PUSH 2 post. Watching eBay offer now.
> Nice, 'mint' deal on Arturia - BeatStep Pro as well. Focus in almost totally drum pads, having Axiom Pro61 and NI-KK S49.
> Sorry for pester ! 😢


Pester? Never!
My general policy when Doc tells me something is good, or a must buy, is to consider the number of posts where he mentions having bought something, doing some rough maths, and working out that I'd be bankrupt. Other than that, I take his views very seriously.

I'll start with three downsides of QuNeo, as that may help most.

1) You have to do a lot of setting up with it. It isn't tied to any particular DAW or developer, so it doesn't have great instant compatibility. Basically, though, once you assign the controls to the CCs that you want to, and set up the pads to do what you want in a few different maps, you'll be fine.

2) Another thing that can be annoying is that they are touch sensitive strips rather than movably dials or sliders. For the most part, this works perfectly, but a couple of them are a little deep set and so you have to be careful how you angel your fingers.

3) And the final downside is the limited number of controls. Yes, you can easily switch between mappings, which great increases what the controls map to; but still, it would be nice to have more controls. In particular, I love the two rotary controls, but there are only two. There are sixteen drum pads, and some other controllers have more.

Now, in saying those negative things, a lot of good things have come up. It has touch pads, it has two rotary controls, it has eight sliders plus a double ended slider for controlling width (e.g. panning). The drum pads are touch pads, not buttons. They can be hit hard and there are no moving parts to break. You can spill coffee on it, and rinse it off under the tap. You can drop it and it nothing will shake loose. So, it's robust. And touch pads can be nice to use. I particular like the fact that my keyboard has a touch pad pith shift and mod wheel. This means you can go from any setting to any other without passing through the intermediar settings if you want to. Such as going from silent to full volume, or a tone up to a tone down. The QuNeo works like that.

Then there is the flexibility of the programming. The drum pads can work as one pad each, or be divided into four separate ones (I don't find this very easy to use for drums, but it can be useful for controlling other things. Also, each individual drum pad can be set as an x-y pad. So, while I've never done this, I could have it set up to give me sixteen x-y pads all at once, plus have eight sliders and two rotary controls.

One further issue worth mentioning about the drum pads is that, even adjusted to be as sensitive as possible, you still need to hit/press them harder than the keys on a keyboard. I think this is by design, for finger drumming; but I would prefer to be able to be more gentle, especially when I am using it to play melodies.

Any controller can be used to effectively extend the reach of your keyboard. So, more often than not, I use QuNeo to operate the key switches for an instrument whilst using the other controls to affect parameters (I hear filters are important!). You could do that on any controller; but QuNeo is quite little, and so it is easy to find space for it next to my Qwerty keyboard and my midi keyboard.

If you have more questions, do get in touch. I only hope I've replied in time. Don't be afraid to message me directly (though I'm not any more likely to see that, to be honest!).


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## doctoremmet (Oct 21, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> a must buy


These are rare though…


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## sostenuto (Oct 21, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> Pester? Never!
> My general policy when Doc tells me something is good, or a must buy, is to consider the number of posts where he mentions having bought something, doing some rough maths, and working out that I'd be bankrupt. Other than that, I take his views very seriously.
> 
> I'll start with three downsides of QuNeo, as that may help most.
> ...


Speechless !! ( talking fingers of course ) __ such thorough, useful, coverage. Truly sets expectations for realistic performance. Both DAW setups identical, and almost perfect spaces for QuNeo. All other considered options involve different location, conflict. Noted functional /operational issues not initially critical, given drum pad intention. Future ? Cost also relevant, as QuNeo will validate relevance to daily projects at modest cost. Later move to other products is not seriously impacted by eBay QuNeo choice. Many thanks for such impressive info ! Could not ask for more. 😲


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## Bee_Abney (Oct 21, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Speechless !! ( talking fingers of course ) __ such thorough, useful, coverage. Truly sets expectations for realistic performance. Both DAW setups identical, and almost perfect spaces for QuNeo. All other considered options involve different location, conflict. Noted functional /operational issues not initially critical, given drum pad intention. Future ? Cost also relevant, as QuNeo will validate relevance to daily projects at modest cost. Later move to other products is not seriously impacted by eBay QuNeo choice. Many thanks for such impressive info ! Could not ask for more. 😲


I'm glad I could help!


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## Bee_Abney (Oct 21, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Speechless !! ( talking fingers of course ) __ such thorough, useful, coverage. Truly sets expectations for realistic performance. Both DAW setups identical, and almost perfect spaces for QuNeo. All other considered options involve different location, conflict. Noted functional /operational issues not initially critical, given drum pad intention. Future ? Cost also relevant, as QuNeo will validate relevance to daily projects at modest cost. Later move to other products is not seriously impacted by eBay QuNeo choice. Many thanks for such impressive info ! Could not ask for more. 😲


Oh, my dad told me to tell you that the QuNeo is annoyingly loud when I'm using it to play drums. I think that probably goes for all drum pads though! - it tells you how quiet I keep my music when it is the sound of my fingers on the pads that is most annoying.


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## sostenuto (Oct 21, 2021)

Ha ! Dad deserves some quality headphones of his choice ! 🙄 
Of course, you could wangle a quality set of full acoustic drums to enliven his days ! 🙉
Fortunately (or not 😢) I work alone now and can drum away ad nauseum. 🔊
Enjoy ! 👏🏻


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## DJiLAND (Oct 21, 2021)

love SSD5.5 Blackbrid Expantion.
It has a great tone.
The library with hall sounds liked the spitfire HZ2 drum kit, but I think I'll use the Sy Power Drum this time by purchasing the full Synchron bundle.


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## RMatute (Oct 23, 2021)

juven said:


> Thanks.
> The midi programming is rough and not quite SteveGadd's rhythm, but the sound is rightfully Gadd's.
> 
> The screenshots don't help much.
> ...



Sorry its taken so long to follow-up. This is my first attempt at a YouTube channel. YouTube removed my channel twice for "violations." After asking why? they "reviewed" it and now it has persisted for a few weeks. 



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChBPLvb3tFyp1OzYZ0mv_UA



The channel has three short (2-4 minute) videos. It may be best to play them in order even though they appear to be posted in reverse order. 






My graphic/written explanation of the production process is the same in each video -- only the lower right had corner changes to reflect the current track being demonstrated. Best to view at full screen for easier reading. I used a free video service, hence the watermark.

A few additional production notes:
- These are from 1999 and 2004. The music is simple (the "original versions" were me playing solo acoustic guitar), but I'm a much better (and older) musician today in 2021! 
- All done on a desktop Mac clone from Power Computing. Used the Mac version of Logic. I tried Cubase in 1996 but switched to Logic because of its ability to do ritardando (control of the tempo at any point) and its 996 Parts Per Quarter Note (PPQ) resolution to fine tune "the feel."
- IIRC using the Sample Cell cards in a Pro Tools system (instead of Logic) would have permitted bypassing the analog outputs on the cards and keeping the sounds in the digital domain. At the time I could hear a subtle distortion that would not have been present in a Pro Tools system.
- String Instruments: late 1960s Martin D-35, 1926 Martin Mandolin, 1970s Dobro with piezo pickup, late 1960s Telecaster through the original (v1) Line 6 Pod (which goes for $15-20 on eBay these days).

Going Forward:
- I decided I did not want to spend $ on the full Kontakt so have not purchased any drum VIs which all seem to require Full Kontakt.
- Will try to duplicate the Sample Cell results using Logic's new Sampler. I've built a "drum instrument" in Sampler. However, since I last used Logic 4 in 2004 I am finding it frustratingly slow to execute my ideas in the version 10.5 user interface which I don't know very well.
- I have acquired the free SSD 5.5 VI in the hope that it may be helpful when the S Gadd samples are not sufficiently "rock." This is because I am missing the small number of Sample Cell Format Samples I used to round out the S Gadd selection (they are not convertible to any current format). These included a heavier snare and various percussion instruments as seen in my S Gadd Key Assignment diagram.

My Opinion:
Keeping in mind that I am a hearing-damaged former "light/country/blues rock" musician, I still like the drum sounds on these tracks and have not heard any drum VIs that are worth buying for my intended musical styles.
A major current problem is getting the extra non-S Gadd samples/instruments I need. 

I welcome your opinion!


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 23, 2021)

Sorry for adding to discontinuity of this thread, but as I already reported on my initial experience with the Handheld MAD Drums here, a few pages back, I feel I better continue in the same thread.

The biggest problem that arouse with this library for me is that with approx. 50% probability the cymbals (not HH) are being played with much higher velocity than programmed to; and that's just insurmountable to me. Effectually this makes it a dedicated HH library for me - such a shame!

(I'm using this library on Win10Pro machine, with Reaper and VST3 version of Kontakt 6.6.1).


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## RMatute (Oct 24, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Sorry for adding to discontinuity of this thread, but as I already reported on my initial experience with the Handheld MAD Drums here, a few pages back, I feel I better continue in the same thread.
> 
> The biggest problem that arouse with this library for me is that with approx. 50% probability the cymbals (not HH) are being played with much higher velocity than programmed to; and that's just insurmountable to me. Effectually this makes it a dedicated HH library for me - such a shame!
> 
> (I'm using this library on Win10Pro machine, with Reaper and VST3 version of Kontakt 6.6.1).


Thanks for this update. Because of the discounted prices that were recently available I came very close to purchasing Handheld MAD Drums and the required Full Kontakt. So glad I held back! I wonder if Handheld is readying an improved version? But should we trust them after this?


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## Bee_Abney (Oct 24, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Sorry for adding to discontinuity of this thread, but as I already reported on my initial experience with the Handheld MAD Drums here, a few pages back, I feel I better continue in the same thread.
> 
> The biggest problem that arouse with this library for me is that with approx. 50% probability the cymbals (not HH) are being played with much higher velocity than programmed to; and that's just insurmountable to me. Effectually this makes it a dedicated HH library for me - such a shame!
> 
> (I'm using this library on Win10Pro machine, with Reaper and VST3 version of Kontakt 6.6.1).


Is this something that can be helped by adjusting the velocity response curve? Or is random spiking?


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 24, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> Is this something that can be helped by adjusting the velocity response curve? Or is random spiking?


Unfortunately, it's random.


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 24, 2021)

RMatute said:


> Thanks for this update. Because of the discounted prices that were recently available I came very close to purchasing Handheld MAD Drums and the required Full Kontakt. So glad I held back! I wonder if Handheld is readying an improved version? But should we trust them after this?


I emailed them about the error in the manual and got no response (not that any response was needed), so I'm not sure about the improved version of this library coming anytime soon.


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## re-peat (Oct 24, 2021)

I’ve just tested every single kit in the MAD series (Blue, Red, White, Amber, Haze, Piper and Umber) and I haven’t encountered a single occurrence of cymbals playing back at higher velocities than triggered. I also never noticed anything of that kind during all the times I did work with these drums.
At worst, at the very worst, you may come across the rare round-robin in some velocity layer of some cymbal that isn’t perhaps entirely consistent with its brethren robins, but even that is never more than a small change in intensity or timbral character. A lifelike differentiation actually which, in my view, enhances a cymbal part.

Do you have a way to demonstrate to us the problem you’re having, Pumpernickel? Say, a short video showing a series of cymbal hits all with the exact same velocity but, like you describe, playing back with a more than 50% chance of unpredictably inconsistent velocity values that are much higher than the recorded ones? And which of the cymbals from which kit is it that you're having problems with?

Here’s *an example video* I made with the ride cymbal from the Piper kit. Like I said: no velocity playback problem whatsoever.

_


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## timbit2006 (Oct 24, 2021)

Russell Anderson said:


> MDrummer came in MXXX, and it’s awesome. Between it and the free version of AD2, and the other cinematic percussion libraries, I feel kitted out of my mind.


Just came here to praise Mdrummer as well.
With the latest MDrumEmpire pack(FREE ~60gb upgrade!!!!) I can't see any need for any other drum kit samples aside from physical modeling stuff like MODO Drums.


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## sostenuto (Oct 24, 2021)

timbit2006 said:


> Just came here to praise Mdrummer as well.
> With the latest MDrumEmpire pack(FREE ~60gb upgrade!!!!) I can't see any need for any other drum kit samples aside from physical modeling stuff like MODO Drums.


At -50% right now, very tempted. OTH _ not drummer /percussionist and concerned how capable one needs to be to utilize MDrummer 'well' _ ( enough to justify ).
Using ADD2 + adds & NI - K12 content. (4) Free Drummer packs adds even more draw.
Hekuva lot less than alternative SD3 ! 🤑

Aarrgghh !! _ there go planned '_EXtensions_'

(edit) _hoping Drummer Packs are key to closing personal 'chops' gap !!_ 🙏🏻


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## timbit2006 (Oct 24, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> At -50% right now, very tempted. OTH _ not drummer /percussionist and concerned how capable one needs to be to utilize MDrummer 'well' _ ( enough to justify ).
> Using ADD2 + adds & NI - K12 content. (4) Free Drmmer packs adds even more draw.
> Hekuva lot less than alternative SD3 ! 🤑


SD3 does seem really cool but in Melda you can make insane kits with like 25 toms and use the built in editing features to make it sound like a legitimate Terry Bozzio, Neil Peart/whatever impressive drummer you're trying to go for style kit.
There's also a full on synthesizer built into Mdrummer, that alone is incredible and easily adds some oomph to kicks or toms.
The other thing I really like is the impressive humanization/randomization that it has built into the Rhythm Editor. I don't think any others come close to that in terms of realism.
It has a very steep learning curve though and it will make you feel like you are back in the early 2000s using a DAW for the first time while you figure things out but now after using it for a year or so I'm extremely happy.
I think the sale ends today, Melda site says it ends in 2 hours.


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## AkashicBird (Oct 24, 2021)

Mdrummer is great but careful if you use electronic drums and play cymbal choke/hold, cause it doesn't have this function afaik.


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## timbit2006 (Oct 24, 2021)

AkashicBird said:


> Mdrummer is great but careful if you use electronic drums and play cymbal choke/hold, cause it doesn't have this function afaik.


That is a bit weird that it still doesn't have that feature yet. You can achieve decent results by putting a normal hit next to their choke hit and putting some automation to blend the two so I just don't understand why a guy as smart with coding and audio as Voj just doesn't add a way to automate that.
Hopefully one day someone creates perfect physically modeled cymbals so we can stop dealing with samples on the most expressive part of the drum kit.


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## sostenuto (Oct 24, 2021)

timbit2006 said:


> That is a bit weird that it still doesn't have that feature yet. You can achieve decent results by putting a normal hit next to their choke hit and putting some automation to blend the two so I just don't understand why a guy as smart with coding and audio as Voj just doesn't add a way to automate that.
> Hopefully one day someone creates perfect physically modeled cymbals so we can stop dealing with samples on the most expressive part of the drum kit.


Had in Cart at amazing $139. with bonus points. Last minute Demo review, and just waaay beyond capabilities to get simple 'live play' backing. Have searched lots, and such limited availability to get 'quality' bossa, other rich backing for personal Piano /Keyboard live play. Not available in ADD2, searching not yet successful. Was hoping for loops-de-la-creme help, but not so far. 😒


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## Colin66 (Oct 24, 2021)

I just saw MDrummer on Plugin Boutique for £105 ($145) as opposed to £215 on their own website.


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## timbit2006 (Oct 24, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Had in Cart at amazing $139. with bonus points. Last minute Demo review, and just waaay beyond capabilities to get simple 'live play' backing. Have searched lots, and such limited availability to get 'quality' bossa, other rich backing for personal Piano /Keyboard live play. Not available in ADD2, searching not yet successful. Was hoping for loops-de-la-creme help, but not so far. 😒







This section is really, really useful for live jamming or messing around. Just pick the parts, and the levels up/down determine how complex or busy the pattern will be. This is just some screwing around that I have in one project with waaaaay too many ideas. I think Realidrums has the same concept built in but maybe a bit simpler.
Being able to seamlessly mix several rythms is really cool, in this one I have one kit doing some latin percussion and the other a typical rock kit.

Mdrummer has incredible latin percussion samples built in, it will really do bossa nova well.
I'll stop being a mdrummer salesman now haha.


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## sostenuto (Oct 24, 2021)

timbit2006 said:


> This section is really, really useful for live jamming or messing around. Just pick the parts, and the levels up/down determine how complex or busy the pattern will be. This is just some screwing around that I have in one project with waaaaay too many ideas. I think Realidrums has the same concept built in but maybe a bit simpler.
> Being able to seamlessly mix several rythms is really cool, in this one I have one kit doing some latin percussion and the other a typical rock kit.
> 
> Mdrummer has incredible latin percussion samples built in, it will really do bossa nova well.
> I'll stop being a mdrummer salesman now haha.


THX ! Had some sense that Latin perc and other capabilities available. Sad now, as 60% deal expired. Realidrums is on list to check out.
Add2 has been disappointment in this specific case. Have messaged and almost seems like they have packed it in _ surviving from past efforts.

Will continue with MDrummer Demo and learn as much as possible.


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 24, 2021)

re-peat said:


> I’ve just tested every single kit in the MAD series (Blue, Red, White, Amber, Haze, Piper and Umber) and I haven’t encountered a single occurrence of cymbals playing back at higher velocities than triggered. I also never noticed anything of that kind during all the times I did work with these drums.
> At worst, at the very worst, you may come across the rare round-robin in some velocity layer of some cymbal that isn’t perhaps entirely consistent with its brethren robins, but even that is never more than a small change in intensity or timbral character. A lifelike differentiation actually which, in my view, enhances a cymbal part.
> 
> Do you have a way to demonstrate to us the problem you’re having, Pumpernickel? Say, a short video showing a series of cymbal hits all with the exact same velocity but, like you describe, playing back with a more than 50% chance of unpredictably inconsistent velocity values that are much higher than the recorded ones? And which of the cymbals from which kit is it that you're having problems with?
> ...


Unfortunately, I don't have any video capturing software installed on my PC. 
I completely trust your experience but our circumstances are different: I'm using Kontakt 6.6.1 (VST3) -> Reaper 6 -> Win10Pro (20H2) (as I specifically mentioned in my original post). Also in my case I had different cymbals being played with different velocities in one midi track. I only have MAD RocknFunk library and this regularly happens with the Blue kit; I am not currently sure about other two as I didn't use them lately.


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## re-peat (Oct 25, 2021)

It’s not that I don’t believe you have a problem, Pumpernickel, but I do feel that in cases such as this, it is wise (and the right thing to do) to find out, with certainty, what’s causing it, instead of immediately blaming the developer for sloppy work. 
Before you know it, your rumour of ‘faulty cymbals’ has people, like RMatute on the previous page, wondering whether they can “still trust the developer”, which I find a rather unfair and deplorable consequence of your report on the cymbals because, in actual and provable fact, neither the developer nor his work is giving any reason at all to be questioned, let alone mistrusted.

If you have problems with the cymbals of the Blue, but I don’t — and I checked all of them again at length before writing this post — then isn’t it more likely that those ‘different circumstances’ which you speak of, need looking at? Rather than the library or its developer? 
Or maybe the black keys of your controller keyboard act up a little funny at times? (I had a keyboard like that, years ago. Its black keys, even when played very disciplined, generated velocity values that were all over the map.)
Or maybe, just maybe — and I’m simply going over the possible reasons for your problem here — you need to spend some extra time getting more familiar with how MAD’s cymbals are sampled and programmed? Unlike many other drum libraries for example, the ride cymbals also have samples (under certain keys) that make them sound more like crash cymbals at higher dynamics. If you’re not aware of this, or ignore it, then I can indeed imagine you might be in for a few confusing and frustrating surprises when playing or programming these rides.

I’m using Kontakt 6.5.0 (R108) as an AU in Logic. No velocity-related issues with the MAD drums at all. Nor were there at any time with any of the previous versions of Kontakt I loaded these drums in.

__


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 25, 2021)

re-peat said:


> It’s not that I don’t believe you have a problem, Pumpernickel, but I do feel that in cases such as this, it is wise (and the right thing to do) to find out, with certainty, what’s causing it, instead of immediately blaming the developer for sloppy work.
> Before you know it, your rumour of ‘faulty cymbals’ has people, like RMatute on the previous page, wondering whether they can “still trust the developer”, which I find a rather unfair and deplorable consequence of your report on the cymbals because, in actual and provable fact, neither the developer nor his work is giving any reason at all to be questioned, let alone mistrusted.
> 
> If you have problems with the cymbals of the Blue, but I don’t — and I checked all of them again at length before writing this post — then isn’t it more likely that those ‘different circumstances’ which you speak of, need looking at? Rather than the library or its developer?
> ...


1) I don't believe, I was spreading any rumours as I was only sharing my personal experience with this libray; and I made certain to enunciate as such in my original post (#274).

2) My controller is not relevant to this situation because I wasn't using it to program cymbals (only my mouse).

3) Today I installed a screen capture software to make this video, where one can see and hear the same two cymbal hits playing differently each time, with velocities ranging far beyond possible RR's:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oibkf8xsci2rzmv/MAD%20RocknFunk%20cymbals.mp4?dl=0
Best regards.


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## Casiquire (Oct 25, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> 1) I don't believe, I was spreading any rumours as I was only sharing my personal experience with this libray; and I made certain to enunciate as such in my original post (#274).
> 
> 2) My controller is not relevant to this situation because I wasn't using it to program cymbals (only my mouse).
> 
> ...


In case this helps anyone in the future, a lot of people have a screen capture program built into Windows! Hit Win+G to pull up the gamer stuff which includes screenshots and video captures. It's saved me in the past.


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 25, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> In case this helps anyone in the future, a lot of people have a screen capture program built into Windows! Hit Win+G to pull up the gamer stuff which includes screenshots and video captures. It's saved me in the past.


I must have uninstalled this feature at some point or something, because today I pressed (then hit) Win+G about 20 times until all hope was gone...


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## KMA (Oct 25, 2021)

I bought SD3 with the Decades expansion, and it puts all my other drum libraries to shame.

The sounds, the control, mics, the presets! I've even found myself using the "grooves", which are surprisingly well-programmed.

The Decades kits in particular are stunning.


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## Mellowstu (Oct 25, 2021)

re-peat said:


> I’ve just tested every single kit in the MAD series (Blue, Red, White, Amber, Haze, Piper and Umber) and I haven’t encountered a single occurrence of cymbals playing back at higher velocities than triggered. I also never noticed anything of that kind during all the times I did work with these drums.
> At worst, at the very worst, you may come across the rare round-robin in some velocity layer of some cymbal that isn’t perhaps entirely consistent with its brethren robins, but even that is never more than a small change in intensity or timbral character. A lifelike differentiation actually which, in my view, enhances a cymbal part.
> 
> Do you have a way to demonstrate to us the problem you’re having, Pumpernickel? Say, a short video showing a series of cymbal hits all with the exact same velocity but, like you describe, playing back with a more than 50% chance of unpredictably inconsistent velocity values that are much higher than the recorded ones? And which of the cymbals from which kit is it that you're having problems with?
> ...


Are those kits that aren't part of RocknFunk (Amber, Haze, Piper and Umber) from an upcoming library that hasn't been released yet? I can't find any info about them.


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## re-peat (Oct 25, 2021)

Thanks for that video, Pumpernickel. It made me have another look at the Blue’s 2nd crash cymbal specifically, and you’re correct: at low and medium velocities — dynamic layers which I appear to have passed over too quickly during my previous visits to this particular cymbal —, there is indeed something going on which results in too much inconsistency among consecutive hits on this one cymbal. I’m not sure if it’s a round robin issue, could be too large randomization settings in the scripting as well (judging by the way the red velocity indicators in the mapping window jump up and down). Whatever the reason, you’re quite right: this is something that the developer ought to look at. My apologies for any wrong assumptions or suggestions I made earlier. I will also send a mail to the developer, describing the issue to him and asking if he can have a look at it.

_


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 25, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Thanks for that video, Pumpernickel. It made me have another look at the Blue’s 2nd crash cymbal specifically, and you’re correct: at low and medium velocities — dynamic layers which I appear to have passed over too quickly during my previous visits to this particular cymbal —, there is indeed something going on which results in too much inconsistency among consecutive hits on this one cymbal. I’m not sure if it’s a round robin issue, could be too large randomization settings in the scripting as well (judging by the way the red velocity indicators in the mapping window jump up and down). Whatever the reason, you’re quite right: this is something that the developer ought to look at. My apologies for any wrong assumptions or suggestions I made earlier. I will also send a mail to the developer, describing the issue to him and asking if he can have a look at it.
> 
> _


No apologies are necessary and thank you for double-checking this issue.

BTW, I opened the Pulse app today and there was a small update for the MAD Drumkits, unfortunately without a changelog. I installed the update nevertheless; so in a few days I'll let everybody know if the problem was fixed.


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## cedricm (Oct 25, 2021)

Colin66 said:


> I just saw MDrummer on Plugin Boutique for £105 ($145) as opposed to £215 on their own website.


Strange, I see it at €249, just like on Melda's site.


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## Colin66 (Oct 25, 2021)

cedricm said:


> Strange, I see it at €249, just like on Melda's site.


Yes it is now but wasn't yesterday. How strange, assume they put the price up today at the end of the sale perhaps?


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## cedricm (Oct 25, 2021)

Colin66 said:


> Yes it is now but wasn't yesterday. How strange, assume they put the price up today at the end of the sale perhaps?


A blessing in disguise : one less temptation.


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## Colin66 (Oct 25, 2021)

cedricm said:


> A blessing in disguise : one less temptation.


Yeah I agree with you. I just got MODO Drums free plus I picked up a few other drum bits and pieces so I really don't need more drums. I think using the ones I have more is the better - and cheaper - option!


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## Markrs (Dec 3, 2021)

I currently have the following drum libraries: 

NI drums
SSD5 (no expansions)
MODO Drums
MDrummer
Jamstix 4 Ultimate (not yet purchased but want it for its drum performance capabilities).
I can buy Superior Drummer 3 for $215 and Metal Machinery SDX for $45, but should I get it? 

A sale I had on it, had previous fallen through as the seller needed to wait 30 days before they could sell the library. The seller has said I can sell buy it if I still want it. I have no concerns about the seller as they refunded me instantly when there was a hold up on the deal rather asking me to wait until 10th December when he could transfer the licence. 

The only question is whether I should still buy it? 

I think I am tempted because SD3 is not sold that often 2nd hand and rarely at a decent discount (and so far never discounted as a new purchase). The other reason for thinking of getting it was to get the Decades and Orchestral Percussion SDX if they go on sale next year.

Truthfully, I don’t think at the moment I need the fine tweaking (multi mic, drums bleeds, etc) you get with SD3. I’m also still new to drum programming, the libraries I have are almost certainly adequate for my abilities.


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## Nimrod7 (Dec 4, 2021)

Markrs said:


> The only question is whether I should still buy it?


You have quite a collection of drums. 
It's a rare case to find it on sale indeed, but the percussion SDX alone don't justify it in my opinion (considering that there are tons of massive percussion libraries out there). 
Do you want it for the preprogrammed midi?

I have myself 4-5 drum libraries like you, and I have the same dilemma from time to time, when there is an opportunity to get SD, I always fall back, since I don't work that much with drums. 
I haven't found a case where my existing libraries will not cover. 

I guess maybe we want it because is not easy to have it, not because we have a gap.


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## Markrs (Dec 4, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> I guess maybe we want it because is not easy to have it, not because we have a gap.


I think you are right it is the FOMO that I am feeling plus the normal GAS. Especially given I’m still thinking of buying Jamstix to help with creating more realistic drum parts. I would appreciate any views anyone has on Jamstix 4, as I am trying to be more considered with my future purchases than I have before.


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## Robo Rivard (Dec 4, 2021)

"I can buy Superior Drummer 3 for $215 and Metal Machinery SDX for $45, but should I get it?"

YES!

Superior Drummer 3 is not a library, it's a whole drum processing studio. The SDX libraries are extensive raw recordings of drums, and with SD3, you can add proper processing via producer's presets, and make your own tracks via the drag and drop included MIDI files. All within your own favorite sequencer. Toontrack libraries have a consistent mapping, so you are safe replacing libraries. The Orchestral Percussion SDX can even have the death metal MIDI files playing the bass drums and snares properly.


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## GNP (Dec 4, 2021)

I don't have any particular "go-to" library, regardless of any instrument. Depends on what I need.


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## Markrs (Dec 4, 2021)

Thanks @Nimrod7 and @Robo Rivard I’m still on the fence about trying it, but I am struggling to see if I would benefit from it over my other libraries and that the customisation aspects could lead to decision paralysis


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## SteveC (Dec 4, 2021)

Markrs said:


> I currently have the following drum libraries:
> 
> NI drums
> SSD5 (no expansions)
> ...


It depends... Do you like the Toontrack sound? As I told before: For me, BFD has the best drumsound. Which genre? SD3 is very popular for metal purposes.


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 4, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Thanks @Nimrod7 and @Robo Rivard I’m still on the fence about trying it, but I am struggling to see if I would benefit from it over my other libraries and that the customisation aspects could lead to decision paralysis


I don't know how much you get affected by decision paralysis. I get it a lot in most of life, but not in music. For drim kits my comparison is always real drums. If it was a real kit, would I feel I had to replace anything? If not, then leave it. Plus, you can build up three or four pre-designed kits that you reach for. Only adjust them if, at the mixing stage, something sounds problematic. But it is easy to say all that...

I may be very wrong, but I think cross bleed isn't a huge reason to upgrade. You can easily add a hint of snare rattle on another track. But I always feel conflicted about adding things that you would be trying to remove with acoustic instruments. First, it's easy to overdo it. Second, why do I want it to sound like something it isn't? The reasons vary, and so the approach does too. Sometimes a very rough sounding kit is the answer, not a super-duper one. Sometimes it's reverb and placement (put the drums in the back).


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## doctoremmet (Dec 4, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> I don't know how much you get affected by decision paralysis. I get it a lot in most of life, but not in music. For drim kits my comparison is always real drums. If it was a real kit, would I feel I had to replace anything? If not, then leave it. Plus, you can build up three or four pre-designed kits that you reach for. Only adjust them if, at the mixing stage, something sounds problematic. But it is easy to say all that...
> 
> I may be very wrong, but I think cross bleed isn't a huge reason to upgrade. You can easily add a hint of snare rattle on another track. But I always feel conflicted about adding things that you would be trying to remove with acoustic instruments. First, it's easy to overdo it. Second, why do I want it to sound like something it isn't? The reasons vary, and so the approach does too. Sometimes a very rough sounding kit is the answer, not a super-duper one. Sometimes it's reverb and placement (put the drums in the back).


This. At some point I’d much rather just use something simple like Karoryfer Frankensnare and layer one or two sounds “on top of” than to introduce yet _another_ whole universe of parameters I can tweak. As much as I like MDrummer, I’d rather reach for something simpler like the aforementioned Sfz samples or Moonkits or something “dedicated and constrained” like that.


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## ahorsewhocandrive (Dec 4, 2021)

i use sd3 just with the raw kits, don't really tinker at all, just route the outputs to my usual mixing chains. the sound itself is what makes me stick with it, which imo is just on a whole other level. i like other drum libraries for their idiosyncrasies & character, but sd3 seriously sounds like money

as an example i used it with a roland kit on this doom/stoner/sludge metal soundtrack recently. couldn't be happier


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## jononotbono (Dec 4, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Thanks @Nimrod7 and @Robo Rivard I’m still on the fence about trying it, but I am struggling to see if I would benefit from it over my other libraries and that the customisation aspects could lead to decision paralysis


SD3 really is great man. I still use SD2 a lot though. I want to get into using Slate Drums (I have SSD4 and SSD5) but the GUI is just terrible and that may not mean a lot to some but here's a function that you get with SD2 and SD3 that you do not have in SSD5... You can select a loop and then solo specific kit pieces, for example, just the hi hats. Then whilst its in solo, you can drag and drop that into the DAW and only the Hi Hat pattern will copy into the DAW. Its incredibly useful. So useful that if a drum library doesn't have it, I don't use it


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## Mark Schmieder (Dec 4, 2021)

Was that me? I know there was one sale I had to refund as there was a waiting period I was unaware of. At any rate, I plan to buy the newest SDX soon and doubt I need Metal machinery any more. I held onto it the longest of anything besides Decades. It has some unique kits.

I am in an interesting position where I plan to re-evaluate VSL Power Drums now that I have the full edition with all the mics. I hope to have time over the holidays. I may well find that it becomes my go-to library vs. SD3 with Decades. But for now, Decades remains my top choice for most genres.


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## AkashicBird (Dec 4, 2021)

Yes, if you have the funds, get it. I finally bought a legit SD3 recently and it's really on top of the game. Maybe some alternatives I couldn't test are on par with it, but at this price it's a total steal.


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## from_theashes (Dec 4, 2021)

I mean… I don’t have it yet… but this seams to be my holy grail:


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## Russell Anderson (Dec 5, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> As much as I like MDrummer, I’d rather reach for something simpler


I find I just load up whatever kit from MDrummer, turn off all the effects, and I’m happy as a clam with my own processing after the fact (I haven’t felt the need to pull the classic all-nighter dialing in a snare drum for example). Maybe I’m not as sensitive to the drumset sound as others /haven’t spent enough time listening in the past 10 years, but at least features-wise nothing being mentioned so far about SD gets my heart beating any quicker than any other kit library, and the sound doesn’t seem any better to me than MDrummer/GGD. Opinion disclaimer


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## doctoremmet (Dec 5, 2021)

Russell Anderson said:


> I find I just load up whatever kit from MDrummer, turn off all the effects, and I’m happy as a clam with my own processing after the fact (I haven’t felt the need to pull the classic all-nighter dialing in a snare drum for example). Maybe I’m not as sensitive to the drumset sound as others /haven’t spent enough time listening in the past 10 years, but at least features-wise nothing being mentioned so far about SD gets my heart beating any quicker than any other kit library, and the sound doesn’t seem any better to me than MDrummer/GGD. Opinion disclaimer


Oh absolutely. I mentioned MDrummer because I know Mark just acquired it. For the record, I really like MDrummer but I am one if those weird people who tends to get lost in options sometimes. Strictly in that sense I sometimes just like simple sample packs


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## Michael AD (Dec 5, 2021)

Markrs said:


> I would appreciate any views anyone has on Jamstix 4


I highly recommend Jamstix and considering their current sale will allow you to get everything they offer for $119 it’s an incredible deal.

Jamstix is probably the closest program that works like a real drummer - you have 2 hands and 2 feet and you are going to tell the hands and feet how and what to play. 

The bad part is that there is a learning curve to adapt to the way the program works, but once you get the basic concepts you’ll learn quickly. 

I’ve found that the Jamstix drum samples, while pretty good, are best replaced with your favorite kit(s). And the program makes that easy to do.

So, if you’re looking for a program that will act more like a real drummer than any other program, I suggest you give the Jamstix demo a try.










Rayzoon - Makers of Virtual Drummer Jamstix


Jamstix is a plugin instrument for DAWs to quickly create realistic drum tracks.



www.rayzoon.com


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## Russell Anderson (Dec 5, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I am one if those weird people who tends to get lost in options sometimes


I can relate. To a literally dysfunctional degree 😐


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## Markrs (Dec 5, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> am one if those weird people who tends to get lost in options sometimes.





Russell Anderson said:


> I can relate. To a literally dysfunctional degree 😐


Me too, I can often be overwhelmed, which leads me either to not use it, or more often down a rabbit hole of learning it, which can take weeks.


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## Russell Anderson (Dec 5, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Me too, I can often be overwhelmed, which leads me either to not use it, or more often down a rabbit hole of learning it, which can take weeks.


Rest assured you can go either way with MDrummer. It sounds good nude and you get the whole suite if you want to disappear for a few weeks


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## sostenuto (Dec 5, 2021)

MDrummer seems quite challenging _ nude, or dressed formally. 😳
Trying to return to Jamstix 4 after long absence from Jamstix 3.

Why is Sonic Charge _ Microtonic absent from these discussions ? How does non-drummer 'place' Microtonic in the large array of drum/perc product categories ? 
Must add _ several supporting comments, came from PluginGuru Livestreams _ John L is very high on Microtonic, _BUT_, each discussion was isolated and no sense of where it fit in his overall drum/perc tool set.


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## sostenuto (Dec 5, 2021)

Sad to not see enthusiasm here for Microtonic. So be it, and will put aside for now. 
Very pleased with recent Loops-de-la-Creme purchases. Still yearning for quality bossa, other latin, lite jazz, backing for piano/keyboard live play.


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## RRBE Sound (Dec 5, 2021)

I am also on the Superior Drummer 3 wagon… I can’t really compare other then to the native drums in Logic Pro …

I am a drummer and for several year I practices on an electronic Roland TD drum kit - with the means of Superior Drummer 2/3. Heck! I have recorded an album with it!

It is very easy to use and almost resembles a DAW.

Very versatile and great sounding samples. I like the idea of being able to upgrade (buy) to more genre-specific libraries for it!


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## DSmolken (Dec 5, 2021)

There was enthusiasm for Microtonic in another recent thread about drum _machines_. If you want a drum machine that doesn't emulate classic vintage models and comes in software form, it's either that or Softube Heartbeat at the top of that heap. This thread mostly has people thinking samples of acoustic drum kits.

Bossa and lite jazz... good question. There's not a ton out there, we very much went for the modern version of that sound with the Virtousity Drums kit but that's more suited to impressionistic "waterfall" drumming than steady grooves.


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## sostenuto (Dec 5, 2021)

DSmolken said:


> There was enthusiasm for Microtonic in another recent thread about drum _machines_. If you want a drum machine that doesn't emulate classic vintage models and comes in software form, it's either that or Softube Heartbeat at the top of that heap. This thread mostly has people thinking samples of acoustic drum kits.
> 
> Bossa and lite jazz... good question. There's not a ton out there, we very much went for the modern version of that sound with the Virtousity Drums kit but that's more suited to impressionistic "waterfall" drumming than steady grooves.


Appreciate clarification _ placing Microtonic appropriately.
Unfamiliar with _Heartbeat_ and will check.
_Virtuosity Drums as well_.

_Keyboardist in Drum /Perc 'Superstore' feels like Psychologist in Physics Lab_. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## AkashicBird (Dec 6, 2021)

Microtonic is cool indeed. It might be first on my to-buy electronic hybrid/drum machine list if they ever implement loading your own samples.
I also vote for Rob papen punch 2.
I kinda like Heartbeat but I didn't think it was the best, might depend on what you're looking for, but I think Punch 2 and Microtonic along with Drumcomputer (even if it's not as easy to understand at first) are the best in that regard.


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## tonio_ (Dec 7, 2021)

I use a combination of kits from GGD. All 3 of the main libs that they have (PIV, Invasion and Modern & Massive). Right now, I'm really into really hybrid orchestral stuff (something along the lines of Ludwig Goransson's osts, but still quite different, although the trap and metal influences are there). So I blend those acoustic samples with 808s and synthesized "stylistic enhancements" (I really don't know how else to describe it lol). 

I've used them for metal/rock for a while and they were as amazing as you'd expect, but then I got into the whole soundtracks thing and figured I'd try the GGD kits in that context. Yeah, they kick just as much ass as they do with metal and rock.

I've routed the kit in a way that allows me to have a Mike-Portnoy-amount of kit pieces and I really dig it. Took me ages to figure out, but it now covers pretty much all my bases, with only simple adjustments (like changing the some shells to fit the key of a track) on a per-project basis


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Dec 7, 2021)

I bought "Rooms of HANSA" SDX expansion recently and I think, I found a bug in it; Toontrack representative disagrees with me. I'd like to post here a short clip of a HH groove (through the OH's mic's only) to hear your opinion on it. Does everything sounds normal to you? Thank you.


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