# Workflow Enhanced by Artificial Intelligence



## amadeus1 (Apr 2, 2018)

*Hey everyone,

I just did an overview of a program that uses artificial intelligence to compose. It's called Orb Composer by Hexachords.

Here's the link: 

Bill*


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## nordicguy (Apr 3, 2018)

Three treads, same video.
Sounds like spam.


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## amadeus1 (Apr 3, 2018)

nordicguy said:


> Three treads, same video.
> Sounds like spam.


Just sent to different groups in 3 different contexts.


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## Mike Greene (Apr 3, 2018)

amadeus1 said:


> Just sent to different groups in 3 different contexts.


Please only post once. Thanks. I've deleted the other two.


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## amadeus1 (Apr 3, 2018)

Mike Greene said:


> Please only post once. Thanks. I've deleted the other two.


Will post only once in the future. Didn't know if members in other groups would be aware of the program. It may not be on sale for long. I rarely buy software or sample libraries unless they are sale. Learned the hard way  Thought I might be doing some members a favor.


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## KarlHeinz (Apr 3, 2018)

Before this gets wrong taste cause of "misshandling" the forum just wanted to say this is a real product, no spam, too early for me to really say much about it but installation of the Artist version worked, great and quick support (missed something with the settings in studio one but quickly solved, now its running). It took some time to set things up (not because its difficult or no good description but just setting up all theses channels takes a while) so not much time left yesterday for playing round with it.

But what I could say after only an hour: it is the FIRST software in this corner which exactly does what I expected and I COULD use within an hour. And no manual needed just to get started playing around with it, the two getting started videos on the homepage are enough.

Will report later (in the evening) how it goes.

EDIT: I think this software deserves a separate post but I dont know where to put it and dont really feel competent to start something


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## Living Fossil (Apr 3, 2018)

...just my thought about this product:
If somebody can benefit of a program like this, it's absolutely counterproductive to use such a program.
Instead, one should work on his/her skills. 
Programs like this are dumbing down humanity and hindering the user in getting better...
No offence intended!


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## gregh (Apr 4, 2018)

I quite like using generative systems but I would need to hear a better outcome than this to be interested. There are many competing systems or combinations that I think could produce more interesting results in a similar time particularly at the asking price but this system might be okay for stereotypical background music.


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## KarlHeinz (Apr 4, 2018)

As said before, for me to early for real rating.

But I have used lots of "competing systems" before, from daw-included chord tracks/midi pattern generators (for example I really like the combination of the new midi pattern generator and chord track in waveform 9) to the marvellous (but really complex and - for me - hard to just follow the devellopment, not to speak about really using such great things as the included idea tools) Rapid Composer. And I can only underscore: this thing just does what it promises in a very easy-to-use AND fun making way.



> If somebody can benefit of a program like this, it's absolutely counterproductive to use such a program.
> Instead, one should work on his/her skills.



I generally agree, but would admit it depends on what is your target. For me music is just a hobby and I have spare time in between family and job to spent on it and in that time I just want to enjoy what I am doing and just have fun exploring the universe of sounds possible today. This on mind I would not say for me it is


> dumbing down humanity and hindering the user in getting better


. It just helps me exploring the universe I would like to explore, nothing more, nothing less.

How good that will work really with this one, well, thats has to be explored


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## amadeus1 (Apr 4, 2018)

Living Fossil said:


> ...just my thought about this product:
> If somebody can benefit of a program like this, it's absolutely counterproductive to use such a program.
> Instead, one should work on his/her skills.
> Programs like this are dumbing down humanity and hindering the user in getting better...
> No offence intended!


It's a tool that can spontaneously generate ideas which we can use or discard for melody, harmony, and orchestration. Don't see why using the program would not diminish the need to work on one's skills.
I think the dumbing down of humanity is more a function of politics than artificially generated music


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## HiEnergy (Apr 4, 2018)

I've had Orb Composer compose a short piece of chamber music (no, I won't post a link to yet another YT video here, see my channel in the signature for more), worked okay and gave a quite listenable result.
There's still lots of improvement, I hope the developers will fill the gaps soon.
The main shortcomings in my opinion are:

only simple diatonic modes (ionian, dorian, phrygian etc., no melodic/harmonic minor, no non-diatonic scales)
only one chord per measure, chords are limited to 5-iads (jazz anyone?)
no gradual tempo changes, only one tempo per musical block, only one metrum per musical block


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## babylonwaves (Apr 4, 2018)

Living Fossil said:


> ...just my thought about this product:
> If somebody can benefit of a program like this, it's absolutely counterproductive to use such a program.
> Instead, one should work on his/her skills.
> Programs like this are dumbing down humanity and hindering the user in getting better...


above fits well to the name of your avatar. why so negative? ok - AI and all that is in an early stage but this doesn't mean it cannot evolve to something great.


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## amadeus1 (Apr 4, 2018)

babylonwaves said:


> above fits well to the name of your avatar. why so negative? ok - AI and all that is in an early stage but this doesn't mean it cannot evolve to something great.


I agree, positivity is more productive than the alternative. Software can always be enhanced.


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## Living Fossil (Apr 4, 2018)

babylonwaves said:


> above fits well to the name of your avatar. why so negative? ok - AI and all that is in an early stage but this doesn't mean it cannot evolve to something great.



Ok, now you try to attack me personally, not too cool.
Other as you might think, it's about 25 years that i'm following the development of logarithmical composition, artificial intelligence and similar stuff with great interest. I had and have lots of discussions and intellectual exchange with people in that area.
And what i have seen so far has one _huge_ problem: the people who write these programs simply don't have a tiny fraction of the theoretical knowledge of music that would be necessary to write something slightly useable.
It's not enough to scratch the surface of basic functional harmony or to know how simple diatonic scales are built.

The complexity of (grown) musical traditions is far beyond what most people are able to imagine.

If you want to write a program that "composes" chorals in the Bach style e.g., the computer has to know the area of musical rhetoric and the so called "Affektenlehre", which are _also_ factors that influence the "correct" choices, and this not on their own but in relation to the underlying text of the specific choral.

I wrote "Dumbing down" very consciously. If you try to reduce a rich culture to some poor basics, you will lose a lot.

Instead of getting personal, try to have a closer look e.g. at the filling voices in a orchestral work by Stravinsky, Debussy, Strauss etc. and compare it to what (even complex) arpeggiators (and similar one-knob-orchestrators) deliver.
Specially try to focus on the many parameters that direct the ongoing changes and modifications. Maybe you'll get my point then...


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## babylonwaves (Apr 4, 2018)

Living Fossil said:


> Ok, now you try to attack me personally, not too cool.


sorry, smiley was missing  it wasn't intended to be an attack at all. and as for the dumping down, i totally agree with you. 

i've seen a lecture recently about AI in music and right now: the biggest issue is the amount of data and therefore the window of time an AI can act within. if you take image processing for instance, it is pretty amazing what you can do and that basically only because it is less complex to deal with. but without a doubt, this will change over the next years and there will be results which will have nothing to do with that we have right now. note that this type of AI takes a piece of music and attempts to make something similar from scratch. of course this is not what the algorithmic composer mentioned above does but it shows what people try out at the moment and how far it goes.

peace


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 4, 2018)

I would rather see ai applied to music making that doesn’t try to write the music but rather attempts to be an assistant that helps a person get some of the more menial and non artistic aspects handled instantly and automatically. 

I haven’t tried orb but any actual “AI” should be able to learn scales and chords as it goes and become smarter over time. Being able to apply schillinger or whatever system you want is not artificial intelligence it’s just a robot


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