# Does any browser not suck?



## bill5 (Jun 26, 2021)

I've been using Opera, but foolishly installed a newer version and it likes to crash a lot. Can't find an older version so I'm done with Opera.

Firefox makes Opera look stable.

Chrome is Google and I have nothing to do with Google.

I'm so desperate I'm re-visiting IE and Edge.

Safari anyone? Something else? I don't need bells and whistles, just stability and basic stuff that should be in any browser (block pop-ups, security settings, easy bookmark mgt).


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## d.healey (Jun 26, 2021)

I use ungoogled Chromium. Sometimes I use Lynx. Brave browser is also supposed to be good.


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## el-bo (Jun 26, 2021)

I either use Safari or Brave.


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## Polkasound (Jun 26, 2021)

I have very few issues with Firefox. Sometimes it refuses to display a page, but that's usually because of my add-ons and cookie settings. When Firefox is the problem, though, I'll view the page in Brave.


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## chapbot (Jun 26, 2021)

I love Brave!!! Try it!


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## bigrichpea (Jun 26, 2021)

+1 for Brave. It is basically Chrome minus the Google.


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## bill5 (Jun 26, 2021)

Installed Brave, early returns are very favorable. For one, this is the first and only browser I've tried where importing bookmarks was SUPER easy. The others ranged from somewhat annoying to giving up and flipping off the company via my monitor lol.

Many many thanks!!


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## el-bo (Jun 26, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Installed Brave, early returns are very favorable. For one, this is the first and only browser I've tried where importing bookmarks was SUPER easy. The others ranged from somewhat annoying to giving up and flipping off the company via my monitor lol.
> 
> Many many thanks!!


Been using it stress-free for a couple of years now. Only recently went back to Safari due to Brave running hotter and my laptop dying at the first sign of a bit of warmth


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## bill5 (Jun 26, 2021)

That's odd, that Brave would make your system run hotter?


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## el-bo (Jun 26, 2021)

bill5 said:


> That's odd, that Brave would make your system run hotter?


In what way would that be odd?


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## Darrell (Jun 26, 2021)

bill5 said:


> I've been using Opera, but foolishly installed a newer version and it likes to crash a lot. Can't find an older version so I'm done with Opera.


Here you have all previous Opera versions: https://get.opera.com/ftp/pub/opera/desktop/


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## tack (Jun 26, 2021)

I worry about the browser monoculture that is forming. Sure, it seems like we have considerable choice, with Chrome, Chromium, Brave, Vivaldi, Firefox, Opera, Edge, Safari, and the myriad lesser known browsers, but the reality is that on Windows and Linux we have exactly two browser engines with any use: Gecko (Firefox) and Blink (everything else). And Firefox is rapidly losing market share.

I've been a Firefox user -- and a Mozilla user before that -- for over 20 years, but I am concerned that if this trend continues we will end up with a single dominant browser engine, largely controlled by Google. Sure, Blink and V8 are opensource with many committers outside Google, but Google is still the driving force. And with a monoculture comes a higher risk of security issues, where a major vulnerability in the underlying engine affects basically everyone.

Firefox is stable for me, and I'll continue to use it until the bitter end. From my cold dead hands ...


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## bill5 (Jun 26, 2021)

el-bo said:


> In what way would that be odd?


In what way wouldn't it? I've never known any program to make my system run hotter.




Darrell said:


> Here you have all previous Opera versions: https://get.opera.com/ftp/pub/opera/desktop/


Hey thanks! But that ship has sailed. I had issues before the latest install so was bound for other shores.


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## bill5 (Jun 26, 2021)

tack said:


> I worry about the browser monoculture that is forming. Sure, it seems like we have considerable choice, with Chrome, Chromium, Brave, Vivaldi, Firefox, Opera, Edge, Safari, and the myriad lesser known browsers, but the reality is that on Windows and Linux we have exactly two browser engines with any use: Gecko (Firefox) and Blink (everything else). And Firefox is rapidly losing market share.
> 
> I've been a Firefox user -- and a Mozilla user before that -- for over 20 years, but I am concerned that if this trend continues we will end up with a single dominant browser engine, largely controlled by Google. Sure, Blink and V8 are opensource with many committers outside Google, but Google is still the driving force. And with a monoculture comes a higher risk of security issues, where a major vulnerability in the underlying engine affects basically everyone.
> 
> Firefox is stable for me, and I'll continue to use it until the bitter end. From my cold dead hands ...


Frankly I don't care. I hate Google but as long as they aren't snooping my data, whatever.


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## Soundbed (Jun 26, 2021)

I use Duck Duck Go when I can.









DuckDuckGo — Privacy, simplified.


The Internet privacy company that empowers you to seamlessly take control of your personal information online, without any tradeoffs.




duckduckgo.com





Mobile app. Browser extension.


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## tack (Jun 26, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Frankly I don't care. I hate Google but as long as they aren't snooping my data, whatever.


My concern isn't so much around data privacy, it's all the other issues. The impact of security vulnerabilities is one problem, but going back to a time where independent web specifications don't matter and you have a single implementation creating a de facto standard, where the motivations and commercial interests of the dominant company are driving web technologies, it makes me very nervous. I lived through this 20 years ago when that company was Microsoft, and this was really a dark time in web technology.

Basically, competition is good. And, as users, when we rally around to prop up a monopoly, we craft a rod for our own backs.


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## bill5 (Jun 26, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I use Duck Duck Go when I can.


I never use anything else. Longtime fan.


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## ptram (Jun 26, 2021)

I find Safari on the Mac quite good. It doesn't crash, can be fast, and you can see which page is taking too many resources by looking at the separate threads in Activity Monitor. If you turn the developer mode on, you can also empty the cache from time to time.

On the iPad I prefer Firefox for ease of use and abundance of features. They have damaged it in the latest version (it is no longer possible to see the title of the pages in the tab bar) but it is still not bad.

Paolo


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## Wedge (Jun 26, 2021)

I think most browsers are ok, it's the pages that suck (so much java script and third party scripts messing things up). If you visit an old ass website before this crap became normal, it's crazy how fast and clean these things can be. And once were. I use Ublock Origin for adblocking which is great and you can turn off/on javascript entirely with two clicks. Turning off javascript breaks a lot of web pages but it also cleans up a lot of pages and sometimes removes paywalls. I use a degoogled version of Chromium and Firefox depending on what I'm doing.


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## cuttime (Jun 26, 2021)

Firefox still has the best assortments of add ons and extensions. Never had a problem on a Mac.


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## el-bo (Jun 27, 2021)

bill5 said:


> In what way wouldn't it? I've never known any program to make my system run hotter.


I wanted to clarify whether you thought it odd that more heat would be created by software that was more resource/system intensive, or just that you found it odd that Brave happened to be more system heavy than Safari.


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## TomislavEP (Jun 27, 2021)

I was a passionate Firefox user before. In many ways, it was a groundbreaking browser once. However, as time passes by, it has lost much of its original charms while trying to compete with the heavyweights.

For me, it's all about convenience and habits now. Like many others, I daily use many Google services so I "blindly" stick with their browser as well despite a number of shortcomings, especially in the privacy department. I also dislike the rather rudimentary GUI that often relies on tons of addons in order to make it more refined. I prefer using as few add-ons as possible. Performance-wise, Chrome seems to be faster and less intrusive these days, but there is always a lot of space for further improvements.

Speaking of which, I still haven't tried to adopt Edge as my primary browser, though it has potentially "fixed" some of the Chrome-related issues. A matter of inertia, for the most part.


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## dzilizzi (Jun 27, 2021)

I've been using Ice Dragon recently. It has been working well for me.


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## el-bo (Jun 27, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I've been using Ice Dragon recently. It has been working well for me.


"Ice Dragon"? It just struck me how mismatched the naming of browsers seems to be, given the activity of just sitting at the computer...browsing.

*FIREFOX!...EDGE!!...BRAVE!!!...ICE-DRAGON!!!*


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## dzilizzi (Jun 27, 2021)

el-bo said:


> "Ice Dragon"? It just struck me how mismatched the naming of browsers seems to be, given the activity of just sitting at the computer...browsing.
> 
> *FIREFOX!...EDGE!!...BRAVE!!!...ICE-DRAGON!!!*


You forgot Safari....


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## sostenuto (Jun 27, 2021)

Staples have been Edge, Firefox, Chrome. Trying Brave Beta, but finding it so different from others that it's tough to commit. Being patient, as habits are tough to break. 

Now checking IceDragon while in flexi-mode !


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## el-bo (Jun 27, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> You forgot Safari....


Hmmm...

Safari's a bit of a weird one. 'internet Explorer' makes sense, in that we use it to explore the internet. 

Maybe Apple were having trouble coming up with a suitable name in response. After multiple brainstorming sessions they established a link between khaki-short-wearing explorers and people on safari, who also happen to wear khaki shorts. And thus Safari was born. Makes no sense from a browsing point-of-view, but then neither does removing headphone jacks from phones and tablets


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## bill5 (Jun 27, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Staples have been Edge, Firefox, Chrome. Trying Brave Beta, but finding it so different from others


?? How? It seems pretty standard to me. Other than not sucking.


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## sostenuto (Jun 27, 2021)

bill5 said:


> ?? How? It seems pretty standard to me. Other than not sucking.


Nothing mindbending .... same as short time to adjust habits after changing any 'default' browser


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## easyrider (Jun 27, 2021)

Thanks to this thread I installed Brave on windows….

👍


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## PaulieDC (Jun 27, 2021)

bill5 said:


> I've been using Opera, but foolishly installed a newer version and it likes to crash a lot. Can't find an older version so I'm done with Opera.
> 
> Firefox makes Opera look stable.
> 
> ...


I’ve been using edge for five years and it is finally coming of age, took long enough. Definitely don’t use Internet explorer, that thing is a security nightmare and it is on its way out. Every once in a while I open chrome. If you’re concerned about tracking then just use the in private option on edge when you open the tab. Chrome has its own version. Honestly we should probably all use that private feature more, I just forget, LOL


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## bill5 (Jun 27, 2021)

A fly in the ointment  Hopefully an expert here knows - Netflix won't play anything on Brave. Netflix, being Netflix, gives me some cryptic "go here and click on this" for something that doesn't exist. Anybody?


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## easyrider (Jun 27, 2021)

bill5 said:


> A fly in the ointment  Hopefully an expert here knows - Netflix won't play anything on Brave. Netflix, being Netflix, gives me some cryptic "go here and click on this" for something that doesn't exist. Anybody?


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## bill5 (Jun 27, 2021)

How did you get there? In my Extensions tab, I found that Widevine was turned off...turned it on, rebooted Brave...same issue.


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## easyrider (Jun 27, 2021)

bill5 said:


> How did you get there? In my Extensions tab, I found that Widevine was turned off...turned it on, rebooted Brave...same issue.


I only installed Brave tonight. I just went to netflix and logged in. Saw that message.

I use Edge just for Netflix as its the only browser to support 1080P streaming AFAIK


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## bill5 (Jun 27, 2021)

Looks like I might have to do the same, despite no need for 1080. ugh. Thx though

Update: and now it works. FM. I didn't reboot or anything. Weird!


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## Trash Panda (Jun 27, 2021)

Netscape Navigator for life.


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## dzilizzi (Jun 28, 2021)

Wait - Brave discourages the use of DRM? 

Something seems wrong about recommending that on a website that full of people who basically make copyrighted content and want their rights respected. Just saying.


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## el-bo (Jun 28, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Wait - Brave discourages the use of DRM?
> 
> Something seems wrong about recommending that on a website that full of people who basically make copyrighted content and want their rights respected. Just saying.


What is the conflict-of-interest?


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## bill5 (Jun 28, 2021)

Yeah lost me on that one too.


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## bill5 (Jun 28, 2021)

PS wanted to add I also noticed that Brave takes up a lot less memory. Pls don't let this honeymoon end.....


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## dzilizzi (Jun 29, 2021)

el-bo said:


> What is the conflict-of-interest?


No conflict of interest. Just feels a little bit ironic to me.


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## el-bo (Jun 29, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> No conflict of interest. Just feels a little bit ironic to me.


I think all of us, even those who can't stand the imposition of DRM, believe that a creators' rights be protected. To advocate against DRM is not to advocate for piracy etc. (To clarify, I'm sure that's not what you really meant.)

But maybe I'm missing your point?


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## dzilizzi (Jun 29, 2021)

el-bo said:


> I think all of us, even those who can't stand the imposition of DRM, believe that a creators' rights be protected. To advocate against DRM is not to advocate for piracy etc. (To clarify, I'm sure that's not what you really meant.)
> 
> But maybe I'm missing your point?


I'm personally not a big DRM fan, but I understand the need for it. It just felt like a "it's okay if I use some kind of lock on my code so you can't look at it, but I don't like that you use DRM."

And maybe Brave is open code?


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## el-bo (Jun 29, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I'm personally not a big DRM fan, but I understand the need for it. It just felt like a "it's okay if I use some kind of lock on my code so you can't look at it, but I don't like that you use DRM."
> 
> And maybe Brave is open code?


Ok, gotcha! I don't really know, to be honest.


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## tack (Jun 29, 2021)

Careful not to conflate DRM and copyright. The overwhelming majority of open source depends on the legal protections of copyright. (Brave is open source, like Chromium, and like Firefox.)


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## AllanH (Jul 2, 2021)

I think I Firefox with ublock origin works well (responding to the opening question)


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## erodred (Jul 9, 2021)

I may be a week late to this party, but Chrome has been peforming really badly. I enjoy my google drive and sync across my iphone and desktop and work laptop. 

I just opened up edge (was afraid to because of the good old internet explorer days) and wow is it faster and it loads a page I was struggling with so much faster. 

I am interested in brave as well. 

Does anyone have experience between the two in terms of synced tabs with iPhone?


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## cygnusdei (Jul 9, 2021)

I assume you mean desktop browser? Apparently you can get older versions of Opera here




__





Index of /ftp/pub/opera/desktop/






get.opera.com





On my phone, I never update my OS and never update apps unless it forces me to. In the odd occasions that I accidentally updated an app and didn't like the newer version, I had to uninstall and download the good version back from apkpure.


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## bill5 (Jul 9, 2021)

Brave has been much more stable than Opera. I'd rather fight than switch.  (commercial reference for really old farts!)


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