# Very cool new tool for inspiration - currently $27



## Garry (Apr 7, 2019)

Just bought this yesterday, and have already written 2 new pieces, that I would not have come up with without this tool (I have zero affiliation, in fact I bought it after seeing it advertised on YouTube - I am almost always hovering over 'Skip Add' for the 5 secs to elapse, but have actually got some useful recommendations from them recently).

Anyway, the tool is Unison Midi Chord Pack (it was $27 yesterday, so you might need the YouTube link for that - seems it's currently $67 on the website).

Basically, it's quite a simple tool that you could quite easily build yourself, but for this price, it's worth paying some who has done the work for you.

It has 12 folders for each key: in each, there are 4 folders: Triads, Extended Chords, Borrowed & Modal Chords, and Progressions; in the progressions folder, there are Diatonic and Advanced Progressions.

So it's great for 2 things:

educational: don't know all of the triads, extended and borrowed chords for a key? No problem, they're all in folders as midi files, which you can just drop into your DAW, and play using the VI of your choice.
inspiration: I've been using it mainly for this, and it's just so quick to get you going. Drag a 4 chord progression into your DAW, add percussion, loop it, and improvise over the top until you come up with something interesting (in no time!).
It isn't rocket science, and could you do all of these things yourself? Yes, absolutely! You could go look up all the chords for a key, save each of them as individual midi files, then look up tons of interesting 4 bar progressions, save those; then transpose them over 12 keys, and you're done! Or, you could get this and just start making music! I love it! Highly recommended.

I'm slightly surprised I bought this - I think I'm not at all their target audience: (i) it's a YouTube add, and I've almost conditioned myself to ignore them deliberately, (ii) the ad is targeted towards a young generation interested in making basic EDM, 'make music without knowing how' sort of feel, which would ordinarily have put me off (iii) it kinda felt cheating to have the chords written for me. I'm glad I ignored all of those instincts. This is really good, and a lot of fun.


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## ProfoundSilence (Apr 7, 2019)

I can't see this being any faster than just playing in chords, is there something I'm missing? Is this for people without a midi keyboard?


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## Garry (Apr 7, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I can't see this being any faster than just playing in chords, is there something I'm missing? Is this for people without a midi keyboard?


Yup, it's no faster than playing in chords. That is, IF you know all the chords of every key (triads, extended and borrowed modal - apparently the software includes 1200 chords), AND you have tons of major and minor chord progressions right at your fingertips, then yes, this is not for you! For me, I find it a really useful to just make my fingers find new shapes through this, rather than old patterns, and that's very helpful in terms of inspiration.

(but yes, if you don't have a midi keyboard, then that would make it VERY useful, but that's probably not the audience here on VI-C).


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## TGV (Apr 7, 2019)

For $99 you get the entire set of Captain Chords plugins, which do considerably more than this, so $67 is very overpriced, IMO.


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## Garry (Apr 7, 2019)

TGV said:


> For $99 you get the entire set of Captain Chords plugins, which do considerably more than this, so $67 is very overpriced, IMO.


Unless you get it for $27, in which case it's not! 

Cool, didn't know about that one, will check it out, if my chord progression needs are now still unsatiated!

Meantime, I have found myself riffing over the top of Abadd9, F7sus2, Cm7, Bbsus4, with interesting voicing (another advantage) - try it, and find the cocktail pianist in you!!


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## Garry (Apr 7, 2019)

Just checked out Captain Chords - apart from having the worst possible name  (unless they're aiming at the 5yr old superhero in me!), the interface is pretty nice, and looks intuitive. I think the extra features (eg additional soundbanks; tap out rhythms, have any chord recognised) are probably not needed/wanted by most here, so not sure if it's worth the extra, but yes, same sort of concept, so take your choice.


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## sostenuto (Apr 7, 2019)

Checked UNISON site and subscribed. Immediately received cool e-mail welcome and promise of follow-up tomorrow. Excited about the Bundle and looking forward.
Many thanks for this Thread !


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## Crowe (Apr 7, 2019)

I gotta say, this is actually a pretty good idea. And now I feel kinda bad about the fact that I have no intention of buying it (or budget to do so), seeing how I could make this myself and learn something while doing it.

That said, I can't believe I haven't thought about this before.


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## Garry (Apr 7, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> Checked UNISON site and subscribed. Immediately received cool e-mail welcome and promise of follow-up tomorrow. Excited about the Bundle and looking forward.
> Many thanks for this Thread !


Oh, I should have mentioned... their numerous follow up emails are a bit pushy and a bit of a pain. I can see myself unsubscribing pretty quickly! Still, the software is great - hope you like it too.


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## Garry (Apr 7, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> I gotta say, this is actually a pretty good idea. And now I feel kinda bad about the fact that I have no intention of buying it (or budget to do so), seeing how I could make this myself and learn something while doing it.
> 
> That said, I can't believe I haven't thought about this before.


Great, nothing stopping anyone doing that. It’s pretty useful, no matter how you get there. 

I’ve been teaching my son and daughter piano, and they’ve really enjoyed playing over the chord progressions from this, and they’re not progressions I could/would have come up with easily myself, so that itself was worth the cost for me.


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## Øivind (Apr 7, 2019)

A warning regarding the Unison website.

I was on their webiste, thought about buying the pack, so i entered my email, clicked next to get to payment options. Before i got any further, i got an email from Unison, that my account was all set up, AND i got a spam mail form Sep, the co-founder, welcoming me to Unison and the promise of a special gift tomorrow.

On the purchase page, there was no information about account creation, no acceptance check boxes, no text saying that Unison will take your email and make an account for you and put you on a mailing list. 

I don't care how fancy their midi files are, this company is going on my naughty list.


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## kitekrazy (Apr 7, 2019)

DAWs have chord generators these days.


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## Garry (Apr 7, 2019)

oivind_rosvold said:


> A warning regarding the Unison website.
> 
> I was on their webiste, thought about buying the pack, so i entered my email, clicked next to get to payment options. Before i got any further, i got an email from Unison, that my account was all set up, AND i got a spam mail form Sep, the co-founder, welcoming me to Unison and the promise of a special gift tomorrow.
> 
> ...


Yup, they're a bit spammy. That said, you gave them your email, and they (immediately) sent you an email, with promise of sending another in 24hrs. Doesn't seem too bad, right? The threshold for your naughty list seems to be a lot lower than mine!

What concerns me is so far I've gotten (i) account setup email - ok, (ii) a welcome email - ok, still good here, that's just polite; (iii) order completion - yup, all good, and (iv) you're on the VIP list, and can look forward to more goodies - OK, now I'm worried! But... let's see - worst case, I have to block their email address, so no big deal really.


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## Garry (Apr 7, 2019)

kitekrazy said:


> DAWs have chord generators these days.


I don't think that's the same thing - I don't know about other DAWs, but in Logic, you can use Scale Quantize to put all your notes into a chord of that scale, or ensure you are only playing notes that would fit with that scale (see below), but that's not what this does. For example, if I'm playing in Dbmajor, can you show me a DAW that would suggest that Gbmaj6add9/#11 would fit with that scale? Or perhaps give you a chord progression that includes that chord, that you can paste straight into your DAW. No? Then it's not the same thing, because that's what this does (and presumably Captain Chords too, when he's not fighting Batman).


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## Crowe (Apr 7, 2019)

Uhm. Can someone explain to me why they call de VII in the scale of C Major "B or G", played as a Bdim with a G in it? That's not what my book here says .


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## Øivind (Apr 7, 2019)

Garry said:


> Yup, they're a bit spammy. That said, you gave them your email, and they (immediately) sent you an email, with promise of sending another in 24hrs. Doesn't seem too bad, right? The threshold for your naughty list seems to be a lot lower than mine!



You are right, i am probably just in a grumpy mood. Maybe, now that i have the Unison team email address, i can set them up with some sweet sweet newsletters and create some random accounts for them. I know they will be super thrilled and grateful.


Sorry to derail. All good now.

I like the concept of the midi files and their labeling. For someone like me who seems to be unable to learn chords and their naming scheme, this would be splendid. Cubases chord track and pads are excellent, but i miss this type of simple overview that the chord pack delivers.

I did not have any problem finding the 60% discount link when googling, for those who are interested in the pack at a more reasonable price point.


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## Garry (Apr 7, 2019)

oivind_rosvold said:


> You are right, i am probably just in a grumpy mood. Maybe, now that i have the Unison team email address, i can set them up with some sweet sweet newsletters and create some random accounts for them. I know they will be super thrilled and grateful.
> 
> 
> Sorry to derail. All good now.
> ...


When you spam them, can you tell them that since their friend Garry has done lots of free promo for them on this thread, can he be allowed NOT to be on their VIP list now! Surely, I've earned that much?!


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## sostenuto (Apr 7, 2019)

Garry said:


> When you spam them, can you tell them that since their friend Garry has done lots of free promo for them on this thread, can he be allowed NOT to be on their VIP list now! Surely, I've earned that much?!


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## ProfoundSilence (Apr 7, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> Uhm. Can someone explain to me why they call de VII in the scale of C Major "B or G", played as a Bdim with a G in it? That's not what my book here says .



I'm not sure if the person who made it actually knows their theory or not. But here is what circumstances it would be written that way. 

1.B major = VII in the key of C major. lower case vii would be B minor, and viio would be B diminished. 

2.G major = in A minor(the relative minor to C major) G major would be a VII chord.

this is probably why I don't suggest using a chord generator... because you don't know what or why these chords exist, let alone how to use them outside of trying random stuff until it sounds kind of intentional.

Actually learning these concepts will actually explain the WHY it works, so that you can use them as a tool when you need them, rather than try option 9,873,983. It probably has a bII chord, otherwise known as a neapolitan. What it probably DOESNT tell you - is that the Neapolitan should be used in 1st inversion, and is a substitute for the iv chord(hence why you have the 3rd on the bottom) This also prevents the issue of having the root of the Neapolitan in the bass, which will very strongly want to resolve step wise back down to the tonic, which severely limits the chords you can use.

What it also isn't going to tell you, is that the neapolitain is the IV of the subdominant key - a useful tool for modulation into that key. 

What it also doesn't tell you - is that the Augmented 6th chord (bVIm7) is the relative V7 of the key of the Neapolitan, which resolves stepwise to the original V chord(Excellent enforcement of a half cadence)

Using this knowledge you can successfully modulate to many many many new keys, something "clicking chords for C major" isn't going to show you how to do - or why it works. If you think your listeners like bad voicing, and important half steps left unresolved - by all means. 


Not to be "that guy" but learning to walk is essential to running. buying a 67(or27$) scooter will help you temporarily help you move faster than you can walk, but it'll stunt your ability to walk, jog, run.


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## KarlHeinz (Apr 7, 2019)

Maybe worth to mention if someone looks for educating/useable stuff in this direction:

https://www.feelyoursound.com/scale-chords/

Basic set is free, Big pack is 15 €, and the software package he offers (sundog for chordprogressions and much more for example) are worth a look too.

For direct use into daw I think the captain plugins are best so far for progression even is still buggy on windows.


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## Crowe (Apr 8, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I'm not sure if the person who made it actually knows their theory or not. But here is what circumstances it would be written that way.
> 
> 1.B major = VII in the key of C major. lower case vii would be B minor, and viio would be B diminished.
> 
> ...



Which is why I'm building this from the ground up, studying the concepts as I go along and why I noticed this in the first place.

I think there's something to be said for constructing this yourself while you're still learning and your writing process is therefore very slow. As it is in my case.

Anyway, thanks for the reply. I've taken the first part into consideration in my structure. I have no idea what 'Neapolitan'means but I'm sure I'll get there eventually.

Edit:
Reading through that I'm confused about a single point. I thought the 7th triad in the standard Major scale should generally be Bo/viio?


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## KallumS (Apr 8, 2019)

Scaler is £39.95 and I would argue is an infinitely better option than a MIDI pack.


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## Garry (Apr 8, 2019)

KarlHeinz said:


> Maybe worth to mention if someone looks for educating/useable stuff in this direction:
> 
> https://www.feelyoursound.com/scale-chords/
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link - I downloaded the free version to get a look at what it offers. The free version is 11 scale types (the modes in all keys) as a midi file for each, with images showing each scale. The 15 Euro version is the same but >300 scale types.

I think that's a really useful reference, and a good easy way to learn scales. I'm not sure I need the whole 300 of them, but this is a good tool for scales, so thanks for the link.

That said, it's not at all the same thing as the Unison software. I know I'm being a little evangelical with this thing now , but honestly, I've just spent 2 days having more fun playing piano than I have for years, and sounding much better than I did before too . I drag into the DAW a chord progression, (using extended chords that I'm often previously unfamiliar with (I was not playing Gaug7/b9 before I can tell you, but I am now!), with interesting voicings that go well together in the progression, and learn the chords in the progression by recreating what I see in the piano roll. Then, in no time, I turn off the midi track, and I'm playing these really interesting progressions myself. I put some percussion behind me, and all of a sudden, I sound light years ahead of where my level was before. Mix in a little improv, and before you know it, I have my family coming in asking me to teach them to do it. Awesome! You don't get that with a bunch of scales! (and I'm not criticizing the scales approach - they're of course fundamental and unavoidable if you want to improve, and I really like the approach in the link you sent, and will be using it - in fact, I've put them in the same place as the Unison folder for easy access).


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## Garry (Apr 8, 2019)

KallumS said:


> Scaler is £39.95 and I would argue is an infinitely better option than a MIDI pack.


Actually, yes, that looks awesome! I'm interested. I'm lazy though: what I like about Unison is the many chord progressions they provide - my impression skimming the Scaler website is that they enable you to build your own (which is great too), but do you know if they also provide you with ready-built progressions? If so, I think I'm their next customer.


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## ProfoundSilence (Apr 8, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> Which is why I'm building this from the ground up, studying the concepts as I go along and why I noticed this in the first place.
> 
> I think there's something to be said for constructing this yourself while you're still learning and your writing process is therefore very slow. As it is in my case.
> 
> ...



I honestly don't think it takes long to learn any of this. If you sat down with 10 minutes and an instructor/tutor - you would be able to understand how to read roman numerals with 100% clarity.

I = upper case = major
i = lower case = minor
i° = lower case and little circle = diminished


so in C major, "VII" would be a major chord built from the 7th scale degree, i.e. a B Major chord. 

adding a sharp or flat before the numeral changes the root that the chord is to be built on.


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## Crowe (Apr 8, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I honestly don't think it takes long to learn any of this. If you sat down with 10 minutes and an instructor/tutor - you would be able to understand how to read roman numerals with 100% clarity.
> 
> I = upper case = major
> i = lower case = minor
> ...



Uhm, yes. I understand that. I can read roman numerals. I can also read books, which tell me that the major scale is supposed to be I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, viio. So I don't get what VII, and thus Bmaj, is doing in the major scale in your explanation, hence my confusion .


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## Garry (Apr 8, 2019)

Garry said:


> Actually, yes, that looks awesome! I'm interested. I'm lazy though: what I like about Unison is the many chord progressions they provide - my impression skimming the Scaler website is that they enable you to build your own (which is great too), but do you know if they also provide you with ready-built progressions? If so, I think I'm their next customer.


For anyone interested, here's a good overview. I agree, this looks great.


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## Øivind (Apr 8, 2019)

It's all Greek to me. I have some learning disabilities so even after being tutored 1 hour every week for 4 months, i still don't know notation nor chords, i walked away just as clueless as when i started.

So when you says "C major, "VII" would be a major chord built from the 7th scale degree, i.e. a B Major chord. " That sounds like a dark magical incantation :D

That is why this pack seemed nice, because i could just choose a key and use chords from that key. 

Scaler looks awesome, might just pick that one up.


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## Garry (Apr 8, 2019)

Scaler was also updated last year to include a guitar fretboard - very nice!


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## Garry (Apr 8, 2019)

There's a trial version of Scaler - going to check it out. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## ProfoundSilence (Apr 8, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> Uhm, yes. I understand that. I can read roman numerals. I can also read books, which tell me that the major scale is supposed to be I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, viio. So I don't get what VII, and thus Bmaj, is doing in the major scale in your explanation, hence my confusion .



Doesn't sound like you understood, or at least the material you read was incorrect, so you seem to have half-learned the concept to the point that it's not much use to you - and it's confusing you when you encounter it. This is *probably* a good indicator that you shouldn't "learn as I go" with a helper like this - because you've already managed to partially learn something, and it's become a hinderance more than a help to you. In the key of C major, VII is a B major chord... that should take 13 milliseconds to see the letters and know what it means.

The roman numerals are not representing scale degrees, but rather the chords built from them. Thus if you change the quality of the roman numeral - it represents not the scale degree - but the chord built from it.

a "I" in the key of C major is not a "C" it represents a major chord built from "C". if you were in the key of C major and you wrote "i" then you would build a minor chord from "C"

These roman numerals represent chords in relation to their tonic, not scale degrees. Hence a V is a dominant, and wants to resolve back to the tonic. When you see "II" for instance, this is a secondary dominant - it's the "V" of the key based on your "V" chord, which is useful if you want to modulate to that key. This is precisely why using a tool to blindly pick sounds without knowing what they mean is only going to stunt your growth. This is all knowledge that everything you learn down the line builds on, and part of the language of the craft. If you only want the vocabulary and language to speak to EDM producers - that's fine, use whatever generators you want. But if you want to learn about music - understanding the basics needs to happen before you can learn anything more advanced. At the moment, you're looking at passing a first year music theory student at the high school level, you don't need 13ths, or augmented anythings - you just need to spend the time away from the computer learning. Download material to read on the phone... you could read a chapter every time you take a crap. Again, I'm not asking you to study 12 tone serialism - but if people spent the time to truly understand the basics of composition - this entire generator would be a waste of time.


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## Crowe (Apr 8, 2019)

I've tried to ignore it in your previous posts, but by the gods you're condescending. Nevermind that you're completely ignoring my original question and launching into *other* theory.

I *get* all that. That's *not* what I asked about. I am doing *all* of the things you say. I'm reading the books. I study at a piano. There's no bloody reason to look down on me like that.

Forget it, I'll just ask my teacher.


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## KallumS (Apr 8, 2019)

Garry said:


> Actually, yes, that looks awesome! I'm interested. I'm lazy though: what I like about Unison is the many chord progressions they provide - my impression skimming the Scaler website is that they enable you to build your own (which is great too), but do you know if they also provide you with ready-built progressions? If so, I think I'm their next customer.



There are many categories of progressions such as Cinematic, Acid Jazz, Drum & Bass, etc. When you load one of these you're given a series of chords and are able to change the key on the fly.

My favourite feature is that you can enable 1 note chords so when you press C on a midi keyboard it will play the I chord, D the II chord and so on.

You're able to bring up all of the voicings for each of the chords such as sus2/sus4, no5, min7.

Try it out, I think it's an invaluable tool.


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## ProfoundSilence (Apr 8, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> I've tried to ignore it in your previous posts, but by the gods you're condescending. Nevermind that you're completely ignoring my original question and launching into *other* theory.
> 
> I *get* all that. That's *not* what I asked about. I am doing *all* of the things you say. I'm reading the books. I study at a piano. There's no bloody reason to look down on me like that.
> 
> Forget it, I'll just ask my teacher.


If you find education condescending I, nor anyone can help you. What I've simply said - is that 'tools' like this aren't actually helping you learn, it's just a distraction. The way you phrase things makes it seem you like aren't grasping the nature of the roman numerals, because you seem to fumble when introduced with something that's not diatonic. If you're confused about why VII means B major in the key of C major, then you didn't learn the material properly the first time. If you bring this to your teacher and ask them and they explain it to you, are they also condescending? Better yet - If your teacher has any wisdom, they will likely suggest the same thing. I hope you feel the same way about your teacher.

That might not be your fault, you might be using a very dumbed down music theory book(which I absolutely despise) But the general point is the same - This fancy tool is going to do nothing but give instant gratification at the expense of stalling your progress, and unfortunately making it even less appealing to take the time to re-learn everything you think you know. And if you're studying now, all these fancy chords will come with time. 

All in all, I spent the time to try to explain and re-explain basic knowledge to someone random on the internet, and in return you call me condescending. If you want to make music in any public capacity you might want to reconsider your people skills, and not bite the hand that feeds you. This is a large forum, and within it's users contains just about everything you want to know about what you want to do. An attitude like that can shut a lot of doors.


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## Garry (Apr 8, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> I've tried to ignore it in your previous posts, but by the gods you're condescending. Nevermind that you're completely ignoring my original question and launching into *other* theory.
> 
> I *get* all that. That's *not* what I asked about. I am doing *all* of the things you say. I'm reading the books. I study at a piano. There's no bloody reason to look down on me like that.
> 
> Forget it, I'll just ask my teacher.


To answer your question, (you know, the one you actually asked, not the one someone contrived that you asked so that they can patronize you with their music theory knowledge), I'm not sure where the notion came from that the VII chord of the C Major scale can be "B or G - Bdim with a G in it" - you were correct to say this isn't true (the VII chord of the C Major scale is Bdim, as you already seem to understand perfectly well, and didn't need a lecture on roman numerals), so I don't think you need any advice, since you already understood this is incorrect and doesn't make sense.

Any discussion about music theory, particularly where it involves using additional tools to help, or much worse, even enjoy this part of music, seems guaranteed to bring out these patronizing responses. No one suggested using the tools blindly, or in isolation (then again, if you have fun putting together a chord progression you don't fully understand, where's the harm - music is for pleasure, it's not an aptitude test) - but ideally, they can be used to supplement learning. Personally, I'm learning a lot by using them, because it adds to my enjoyment, so I then dig in deeper to understand it. Some people may have different approaches, and that's fine too - no need to patronize those who take a different approach.

So, I can only recommend the action I just took, and always do in these cases that has made my VI-C experience much more enjoyable: click on his avatar, hit 'ignore user', and you're done!  To those who think using these music software tools is debasing to your musical intellect - click ignore thread, and it's like us Philistines were never here, and we can go on undermining the very essence of music knowledge in your absence. You'll enjoy our absence, and we'll happily reciprocate!

Back to the thread - I've downloaded the 30 day trial of Scaler, and looking forward to trying it out - looks great so far. @Shiirai - you mentioned it was partly budget that meant you probably wouldn't follow up on this, though you liked the idea, so maybe take advantage of the free trial?


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## Crowe (Apr 8, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> The way you phrase things makes it seem you like aren't grasping the nature of the roman numerals, because you seem to fumble when introduced with something that's not diatonic.



THERE. That was the information I was looking for and thus the source of my misunderstanding. I was thinking of the diatonic Major.

Thank you for that.

But yet again you say it like I'm a fucking child.

It really doesn't matter if you spend pages explaining information that wasn't asked for, while you're doing it while preaching how everything I do is wrong when you yourself didn't understand the question, you're condescending.

I'm really not worried about my position in life, thank you very much.

Edit: Thanks Garry!
And I might, though I kinda like how I'm tackling this right now.


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## ProfoundSilence (Apr 8, 2019)

That's false garry, VII in C major is B major. B. D#. F#.

vii° in C major is B diminished. just like in C minor, the V would be G major, but a v would be G minor.

If your plugin says "VII" in C major is a B diminished - then the plugin creator is mistaken. If that's condescending, sorry, not sorry. It's musicians helping musicians, if you're so self conscious about using a tool like this that you're going to kick and scream at advice, you're probably better off using a chord generator, and a melody generator. https://evabeat.com/ here ya go. Might as well skip the whole process too... https://www.pond5.com/

Enjoy your 5$ mcmusic with fries.

Those that have questions about theory, or actually learning the craft - without throwing a tantrum, feel free to message me outside of this thread. Clearly this is a meeting place for angsty teens who want to circle jerk over a chord generator and bark at those trying to talk them out of it.

*clap back*


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## Garry (Apr 8, 2019)

So, I've had a quick play through with Scaler, and I have 2 comments:

yes, it's way more detailed than Unison, and all of the other features are very useful, and things that I will use. Definitely going to buy it.
As I said in the original post, Unison is basically just a collection of midi files. That's it. There's nothing with sufficient time, any one of us couldn't put together ourselves, by researching the chords and progressions (assuming you don't already know all 1200!), and saving as individual files. So, it's basically a time-saver. However, the one thing it has, that I don't see in Scaler, are the chord progressions: in Unison, there are a good number of pre-baked progressions, both diatonic and advanced, and in major and minor. I don't need to come up with them myself, they're right there, and sound great. So I can just spend my time learning to play them, and then using them for inspiration to jam over. Scaler makes it easy to come up with your OWN chord progressions. It's much better than Unison for this. However, the pre-suggestions based on different genres are not progressions: it throws you the chords you can use to make a progression based on that genre, and it enables you to change that up with different voicings and chord variations. That is really useful, and in the longer term, probably more useful, as I'll quickly exhaust the pre-baked ones in Unison. But for the moment, I'm just enjoying the hand-holding that Unison provides, by suggesting complex chord progressions that I wouldn't have thought of myself (perhaps even with the help of Scaler). It's a lot of fun, and was definitely worth my 27 bucks!


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## jbuhler (Apr 8, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> That's false garry, VII in C major is B major. B. D#. F#.
> 
> vii° in C major is B diminished. just like in C minor, the V would be G major, but a v would be G minor.
> 
> ...


You write like these labels came down from on high with the mark of absolute truth whereas in fact the field of music theory doesn’t even fully agree on the nomenclature.


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## Garry (Apr 8, 2019)

Garry said:


> So, I've had a quick play through with Scaler, and I have 2 comments:
> 
> yes, it's way more detailed than Unison, and all of the other features are very useful, and things that I will use. Definitely going to buy it.
> As I said in the original post, Unison is basically just a collection of midi files. That's it. There's nothing with sufficient time, any one of us couldn't put together ourselves, by researching the chords and progressions (assuming you don't already know all 1200!), and saving as individual files. So, it's basically a time-saver. However, the one thing it has, that I don't see in Scaler, are the chord progressions: in Unison, there are a good number of pre-baked progressions, both diatonic and advanced, and in major and minor. I don't need to come up with them myself, they're right there, and sound great. So I can just spend my time learning to play them, and then using them for inspiration to jam over. Scaler makes it easy to come up with your OWN chord progressions. It's much better than Unison for this. However, the pre-suggestions based on different genres are not progressions: it throws you the chords you can use to make a progression based on that genre, and it enables you to change that up with different voicings and chord variations. That is really useful, and in the longer term, probably more useful, as I'll quickly exhaust the pre-baked ones in Unison. But for the moment, I'm just enjoying the hand-holding that Unison provides, by suggesting complex chord progressions that I wouldn't have thought of myself (perhaps even with the help of Scaler). It's a lot of fun, and was definitely worth my 27 bucks!


Sorry, I was completely wrong! Clicking on the genres does indeed present suggested chord progression. So, yup, this is tons better than Unison. Sorry Unison - and you went and put me on your VIP email list and all!


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## ProfoundSilence (Apr 8, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> You write like these labels came down from on high with the mark of absolute truth whereas in fact the field of music theory doesn’t even fully agree on the nomenclature.



In what dimension does a capital numeral mean diminished? Are some lowercase for the fun of it? Some schools count differently, some use solfege - some used fixed do, some use movable... 

But as far as I know, every single school teaches capital numerals = major, lower case = diminished and lower case with a ° = diminished.


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## jbuhler (Apr 8, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> In what dimension does a capital numeral mean diminished? Are some lowercase for the fun of it? Some schools count differently, some use solfege - some used fixed do, some use movable...
> 
> But as far as I know, every single school teaches capital numerals = major, lower case = diminished and lower case with a ° = diminished.


Those distinctions are customary but not universal. Many do not distinguish lowercase and uppercase or use the augmented or diminished indicators. So a symbol like VII in particular does not have the universal meaning you assign to it.


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## KallumS (Apr 8, 2019)

Garry said:


> Sorry, I was completely wrong! Clicking on the genres does indeed present suggested chord progression. So, yup, this is tons better than Unison. Sorry Unison - and you went and put me on your VIP email list and all!



Yup - the way I view it is that the order of the chords that appear are the intended progression. One of the genres has a repeating pattern of 3 chords, can't remember which, but the second group of chords has slightly different voicing so if you played each one after the other it would make an evolving progression. I believe it was Ode To Hans.


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## ProfoundSilence (Apr 8, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> Those distinctions are customary but not universal. Many do not distinguish lowercase and uppercase or use the augmented or diminished indicators. So a symbol like VII in particular does not have the universal meaning you assign to it.


Who is "many"

is there a textbook that's actually currently in use in schools that you can link me? Or do you mean random people who simply aren't correct? Or do you expect me to believe people just list off scale degrees in roman numerals for the hell of it? What is the purpose of that system if not to tell you exactly how the chord is built?

what's next - these different schools have their own way of writing inversions too?

For the sake of explaining function: if you have a distinction between major, minor, diminished - the roman numeral system(numbers cant be uppercase) tells you the EXACT quality of the chord, and from which scale degree it's built from, and it's relation to the tonic.

Allowing #/b before it also allows 5 more possible root notes. 

Or else you've got a random situation where there is 0 value in calling scale degrees by their roman numerals, other than to be pointlessly difficult. Might as well just use solfege at that point?

Sorry, peace and love is great and all - but being incorrect is a whole different thing entirely. Not using the language is one thing, but rewriting it based off of ignorance of it is not the same.


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## YaniDee (Apr 8, 2019)

This site has a lot of midi loops in a similar vein..and great customer service

http://www.prosonic-studios.com/


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## jbuhler (Apr 8, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Who is "many"
> 
> is there a textbook that's actually currently in use in schools that you can link me? Or do you mean random people who simply aren't correct? Or do you expect me to believe people just list off scale degrees in roman numerals for the hell of it? What is the purpose of that system if not to tell you exactly how the chord is built?
> 
> ...


I mean publications in professional journal and 30+ years in the field. But you be you.


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## Erick - BVA (Apr 8, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> That's false garry, VII in C major is B major. B. D#. F#.
> 
> vii° in C major is B diminished. just like in C minor, the V would be G major, but a v would be G minor.
> 
> ...


I value education, and I do have one. But your attitude does seem a bit snooty, and actually downright rude.
I think writing music with meaning and purpose does not require an in depth knowledge of music theory. Who gives a flying rats behind what it does. Music doesn't demand or require we do anything in particular. Being creative and inventive is something different than being formal and following theory. What is the end result of the music? I'd rather have inspiration and some higher function dictate what I write than the theory. For me, theory is a permeable barrier that you kind of have in the back of your mind, but shouldn't fixate on. That's my approach, but it doesn't have to be everyone's. The way you write though, it seems that you think there is only one right way to do it. Sure, you seem to be trying to eduate on one hand, but then saying something like "might as well skip the whole process too... enjoy your $5 mcmusic with fries." So you are being condescending, and it's plainly obvious. Why not simply be respectful and seek to educate without the attitude?


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## sostenuto (Apr 8, 2019)

Lifetime, trained pianist, and this type of learning (while clearly valued) doesn't help my pathetic lack of improvisational skills. I play a decent range of music as a competent sight-reader. Trying to improvise from those scores is astrophysics for me. Something which generates a range of valid potential chords and progressions has my interest. 
No criticism whatsoever, of _@ ProfoundSilence's_ foundational advice …. however, a software tool which provides 'some' appropriate chord options sounds intriguing.


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## Garry (Apr 8, 2019)

I'm playing around with Scaler: does anyone know how to output the midi so that when I drag it into Logic, the chords are 4 whole notes across 4 bars, rather than what it currently produces which is 4 quarter notes across 1 bar? I'm almost never going to play chords like that, so if I have to rearrange it every time once in the DAW, that'll be a pain. Would be great if there's a preset on the note duration in Scaler, but I can't see one. 

EDIT - There's a note duration option (bottom left of the window - click the note). Great, these guys thought of everything!


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## Garry (Apr 8, 2019)

More updates as I play with Scaler: ok, so this is awesome! It's so inspiring: tons of genres with inspiring chord progressions to learn. Also, in Unison, since it just outputs the midi, I have to go through and play each chord to find out what it is; in Scaler, it's right there - I can see what chord is playing, how to play it, and what scale to use to improvise with. Also, the progressions are pre-baked in Unison, so although you can change them, you would have to do that note by note in the DAW without guidance, but in Scaler, you can get suggestions per chord, as to what would be an interesting replacement. This is very, very cool!

Thanks to @KallumS for the recommendation - I love it!

Back to improvising...


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## Garry (Apr 8, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> Lifetime, trained pianist, and this type of learning (while clearly valued) doesn't help my pathetic lack of improvisational skills. I play a decent range of music as a competent sight-reader. Trying to improvise from those scores is astrophysics for me. Something which generates a range of valid potential chords and progressions has my interest.
> No criticism whatsoever, of _@ ProfoundSilence's_ foundational advice …. however, a software tool which provides 'some' appropriate chord options sounds intriguing.


That's so interesting, there really does seem to be 2 sorts of musicians: I'm precisely the opposite to you - I can barely read music, and have to get by with either guitar tabs or just chord sheets, but notation might as well be mandarin to me; but, I can improvise on most instruments. It's funny, friends of my kids who have been teacher-trained, it always amazes me how difficult they find it to step outside of the pieces they've learned and play very well. I guess there's no right/wrong way: I would LOVE to be able to sit down with a piece of music and sight read it, but alas, I think my time has passed that I'll be able to do that. But, I do love just sitting down and jamming; it seems the 2 different approaches really affect how your brain processes music in a fundamental way.


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## unclecheeks (Apr 8, 2019)

I've tried many of these types of tools, and after my exhaustive search I'd highly recommend Scaler by Plugin Boutique.

EDIT: aaaaand KallumS beat me to it. +1 for Scaler from me then!


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