# Cubase 11 has convinced me to look at Studio One



## SimonCharlesHanna

and so far I really like what I see, the scratch pad, the Dorico-esque flows, being able to recall mixes + mute/hide, the keyswitching looks great, the score view etc. and I have only been digging for 30 mins.

I am wondering if any Cubase folk who've tried out Studio One want to share thoughts and experiences?

Edit: even being able to use arranger to drag the entire structure around, wtf.


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## jules

I tried, and went back to cubase. For any reason i disliked studio one, its general feel. The scratch pad is a really good idea, though, that i would like to see in cubase some day.


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## Henrik B. Jensen

Have you considered Reaper?

Edit:
Ah ok guys, I see I didn't read OP's opening post at all!


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## MarcusD

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> and so far I really like what I see, the scratch pad, the Dorico-esque flows, being able to recall mixes + mute/hide, the keyswitching looks great, the score view etc. and I have only been digging for 30 mins.
> 
> I am wondering if any Cubase folk who've tried out Studio One want to share thoughts and experiences?



I'm trying it out atm. Already a couple things I prefer from a workflow point of view, but there are also a couple things I'd like to see.

So far the keyswitch manager is way better than the expression map editor. So easy to set up maps and save them to the instrument. Its exactly how Cubase should work... The only thing I'd like to see is the switches displayed in the lane (like Cubase) and also options for program changes.

Drum map editor is also way better and super simple to create maps quickly. The step beat designer is also a blessing for percussion because you have control over the midi offset using velocity layers. Much more intuitive and allows for more realistic patterns. Appose to manually draging MIDI or trying to use quantisation to humanise a performance.

The mixer is also has a far better workflow, no clutter and the signal splitter is an absolute game changer for mixing. You can create some seriously complex signal chains that would take ages to setup in cubase. 

Something I do miss is pressing the middle mouse button to scroll around like youre using photoshop. S1 really needs this IMO. Apparently there's a script users have made but I have no idea how you I install it. 

Also I can't find a way to batch save multiple channels as a preset in S1.

You can disable tracks like cubase, but there doesn't appear to be a freeze function, (will need to check the manuel). 

I prefer the chord track in Cubase as it has more options. Also S1 doesn't have Chord Pads yet. 

Yet to dive deeper, but already really enjoying the workflow. I recon a few more updates this will be a very viable alternative.


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## Vladimir Bulaev

MarcusD said:


> Something I do miss is pressing the middle mouse button to scroll around like youre using photoshop. S1 really needs this IMO. Apparently there's a script users have made but I have no idea how you I install it.


+1


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## scherzo

Self-loathing Cubase-user here, who's only demoed S1, but:



MarcusD said:


> Something I do miss is pressing the middle mouse button to scroll around like youre using photoshop. S1 really needs this IMO. Apparently there's a script users have made but I have no idea how you I install it.



You can get around this by using a third-party tool to change mouse button behavior. I use X-Mouse Button Control on Windows to change middle-click to scroll (as well as reassigning the side buttons and things like that). I'm sure there are other options, and presumably some equivalent for Mac.

(On my to-do list: figure out a similar way to change zooming behavior so that ctrl+mousewheel zooms horizontally, not vertically. That's what my brain is used to, and constantly zooming in the wrong way is really jarring. Thus far my brain has been unable to adjust.)



MarcusD said:


> You can disable tracks like cubase, but there doesn't appear to be a freeze function, (will need to check the manuel).



Look for something called Transform Instrument Track, or some such. I forget the exact wording.


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## shropshirelad

MarcusD said:


> You can disable tracks like cubase, but there doesn't appear to be a freeze function, (will need to check the manuel).


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## MarcusD

scherzo said:


> Self-loathing Cubase-user here, who's only demoed S1, but:
> 
> 
> 
> You can get around this by using a third-party tool to change mouse button behavior. I use X-Mouse Button Control on Windows to change middle-click to scroll (as well as reassigning the side buttons and things like that). I'm sure there are other options, and presumably some equivalent for Mac.
> 
> (On my to-do list: figure out a similar way to change zooming behavior so that ctrl+mousewheel zooms horizontally, not vertically. That's what my brain is used to, and constantly zooming in the wrong way is really jarring. Thus far my brain has been unable to adjust.)
> 
> 
> 
> Look for something called Transform Instrument Track, or some such. I forget the exact wording.



I'll have a look into it, so far it's the only thing that's really bugging me. The script I saw (that looked like it solved this) was on the Presonus Forum, but there's no instructions as to how to get it working or where it's copied to in the root folder. https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?f=151&t=42161&p=247831&hilit=script#p247831



shropshirelad said:


>




Nice one! That answers that question  Not really looked into all the video tuts yet.. Seemingly only seems to be the odd function that's buried in S1. Most of it's pretty easy to find and not too dissimilar from Cubase.


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## shropshirelad

MarcusD said:


> Not really looked into all the video tuts ye


The Presonus official videos with Gregor & Joe are very good indeed - they really helped to sell Studio One to me earlier this year.


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## Jay Panikkar

I use Cubase mainly but I have had a very positive experience with S1 (got it with my Faderport 8 controller).

I think S1 has all the advantages of being a relatively new piece of software in this space. It's free from the clutter and bloat found in almost every other DAW because there's no need for backwards compatibility going back decades.

Compared to Cubase: S1 loads faster, the UI feels snappier, third-party VST seems to load quicker and snappier as well, efficiently allocates large number of cores / threads, no performance stutters / hitches so far. Good, detailed videos on using S1 on YouTube, official and non-official.

I might switch to S1 in the near future, but for now my muscle memory is tuned to Cubase.


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## Øivind

MarcusD said:


> Something I do miss is pressing the middle mouse button to scroll around like youre using photoshop. S1 really needs this IMO. Apparently there's a script users have made but I have no idea how you I install it.



There is a script + Windows executable here: https://github.com/lokanchung/StudioPlusOne

Look to the right of the page and click Releases, here you can see the different download options.

*sp1.exe* is the self contained version of the script (probably only works on Windows). Once it runs you can right click on the icon that appears in the Task Trey (lower right) to see options like run on Windows Start etc. Once the file is running, you can mouse-pan in Studio One 5.

The *Source Code.zip* file contains the script files for a program called AutoHotKey (which i believe is free). You just download that program, and open the sp1.ahk file within AutoHotKey and it should just work.

I have tried both variants and they work pretty well.


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## MarcusD

Jay Panikkar said:


> I use Cubase mainly but I have had a very positive experience with S1 (got it with my Faderport 8 controller).
> 
> I think S1 has all the advantages of being a relatively new piece of software in this space. It's free from the clutter and bloat found in almost every other DAW because there's no need for backwards compatibility going back decades.
> 
> Compared to Cubase: S1 loads faster, the UI feels snappier, third-party VST seems to load quicker and snappier as well, efficiently allocates large number of cores / threads, no performance stutters / hitches so far. Good, detailed videos on using S1 on YouTube, official and non-official.
> 
> I might switch to S1 in the new future, but for now my muscle memory is tuned to Cubase.



Pretty much summarises my current feelings. Spent the past day playing with S1 and I much prefer many things it does to Cubase. There are a couple of things that haven't been added yet or done differently. But it's so damn close, I really think the next version (Studio 6 or 7) will sway many to move away from Steinberg.

There's so much Presonus have got right, the foundations are solid and ready to be built on. Can't say I feel the same way about Steinberg now, the foundations are flaky. Nothing's been consistent for a LONG time. Don't get me wrong, I love Cubase it is a good DAW and occasionally has some decent updates. But damn, it's about time they flushed out all the early 2000s workflow concepts and buggy features, sorted out half-integrated functionality and get the damn DAW into 2020. Even if they completely merge Nuendo and Cubase together, just focus on one amazing DAW.


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## Tren

MarcusD said:


> Pretty much summarises my current feelings. Spent the past day playing with S1 and I much prefer many things it does to Cubase. There are a couple of things that haven't been added yet or done differently. But it's so damn close, I really think the next version (Studio 6 or 7) will sway many to move away from Steinberg.
> 
> There's so much Presonus have got right, the foundations are solid and ready to be built on. Can't say I feel the same way about Steinberg now, the foundations are flaky. Nothing's been consistent for a LONG time. Don't get me wrong, I love Cubase it is a good DAW and occasionally has some decent updates. But damn, it's about time they flushed out all the early 2000s workflow concepts and buggy features, sorted out half-integrated functionality and get the damn DAW into 2020. Even if they completely merge Nuendo and Cubase together, just focus on one amazing DAW.


It's hard to glean any useful information out of replies like this.

"the foundations are flaky"
"Nothing's been consistent for a LONG time"
"early 2000s workflow concepts and buggy features"
"half-integrated functionality"
"get the damn DAW into 2020"

This reads like the forum warrior equivalent of corporate marketspeak - though that doesn't surprise me (particularly when REAPER or Studio One are part of a discussion).

And Nuendo is a superset of Cubase, like Sequoia is a superset of Samplitude (or Pro Tools | Ultimate vs. Pro Tools). They're literally the same product, now, with Nuendo adding functionality on top of Cubase's base feature set. They just gave a different name to the bigger SKU, like Samplitude and Sequoia.


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## MarcusD

oivind_rosvold said:


> There is a script + Windows executable here: https://github.com/lokanchung/StudioPlusOne
> 
> Look to the right of the page and click Releases, here you can see the different download options.
> 
> *sp1.exe* is the self contained version of the script (probably only works on Windows). Once it runs you can right click on the icon that appears in the Task Trey (lower right) to see options like run on Windows Start etc. Once the file is running, you can mouse-pan in Studio One 5.
> 
> The *Source Code.zip* file contains the script files for a program called AutoHotKey (which i believe is free). You just download that program, and open the sp1.ahk file within AutoHotKey and it should just work.
> 
> I have tried both variants and they work pretty well.



Absolute LEDGEND! The .exe works perfectly, exactly how it should be


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## khollister

I keep reading comments that S1 is CPU efficient but my experiments on both MacOS and Windows 10 indicate otherwise. I have a few torture test projects that I have run until audible overload, and S1 5.1 always craps out quite a bit sooner than Cubase (or Logic in the case of MacOS).

One thing to careful of is the CPU metering on S1. In the case of Cubase and Logic, the CPU performance meters are reasonably accurate, i.e. you are good until the meter bar gets very close to, or reaches the 100% limit (and then you get crackles or error messages). S1 behaves very differently. I will cruise along with an indicated 50-60% CPU load and then, bam!, a spike that causes overload. So if you are not testing until failure, you may well think S1 is doing better than Cubase/Logic based on the meters.

The other thing I have noticed is the record armed performance of S1 with low latency enabled (which from everything I can tell is the only way to play using the buffer setting instead of the process buffer size) is quite a bit worse than C/LPX on many instruments I have tried.

I agree there is a lot to like in S1 (and a few things I am not so enthused about), but I can't use it for anything VI heavy at this point without freezing tracks a lot compared to Cubase.


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## MarcusD

Tren said:


> It's hard to glean any useful information out of replies like this.
> 
> "the foundations are flaky"
> "Nothing's been consistent for a LONG time"
> "early 2000s workflow concepts and buggy features"
> "half-integrated functionality"
> "get the damn DAW into 2020"
> 
> This reads like the forum warrior equivalent of corporate marketspeak - though that doesn't surprise me (particularly when REAPER or Studio One are part of a discussion).



You do realise I've been using Cubase exclusively for a very long time. I think I'm allowed to voice my opinion on a product I've been heavily invested in, for many, many years. Not really a polite way to edge yourself into a conversation...comes off quite rude. Not sure if that was your intent.



Tren said:


> And Nuendo is a superset of Cubase, like Sequoia is a superset of Samplitude. They're basically the same product, with Nuendo adding functionality on top of what Cubase provides. They just gave a different name to the bigger SKU, like Samplitude and Sequoia.



My point is they should just focus on 1 product. There doesn't appear to be much need in having two different DAWs that practically do the same thing apart from one is more media / game based. Makes no sense to me, just pool your funding and recourses into one product instead of borrowing features from one DAW to put in another.

Anyway, a short list of things that annoy me with Cubase. There's probably more I've missed.

* Snapshots - NO automation data gets saved making these pretty useless if you're mixing and used automation on plugins (which is mostly every session)

* Expression Map Editor - Most long winded and tedious way of creating simple keyswitches. Dated workflow. Has been patched (to fix the broken graphics of C10) but still has issues occasionally when triggering.

* Track Presets - can't save FX, Groups & Folders.

* Track Archives - pretty outdated method TBH, workflow could be better.

* Track Preset preview - loads instrument tracks and samples on... No way to turn off previews. The workaround is disabling all your track pre-sets before saving them.

* Track Presets Saving - The more track presets you save, the slower it becomes to save them and wait for them to populate the Media bay. It's ok if you're only using about 30, but as you build up your preset bank, the media bay gets VERY slow at saving anything new.

* Media bay - needs a complete re-write, it's buggy sometimes when trying to batch change info on presents. It sometimes fails to save the changes correctly. It can also become very slow, when right clicking on any preset to "view in explorer".

* EQ - if you drag the nodes around enough, it'll lock you from actually clicking anything else until you move the node again. Issue been there since V9

* Drum Maps - Have you ever tried creating one? It's the most arse-about-tit way of doing anything. A good example of OLD workflow ideas stuck in the past.

* No step designer, apart from that abomination "beat designer"

* No multi Freeze channel options, only 1 track at a time freezing.

* Video & audio export doesn't work correctly (depending on the setting you use).

* No drag and drop mixer functionality when re-arranging channels.

* 4K scaling still an issue

* If you have all the tool bars loaded at the top, on a 1080p screen the tools don't collapse or shrink. They just overlap each other and become a glitchy mess.

* 3rd party plugins (some not all) require you to close them and open them again, in-order for the graphics to correctly display.

* Track pictures do not scale correctly since version 10 (and still don't). C9 was best.

* When backing up settings for migration, it doesn't actually export EVERYTHING in a profile. You still required to dig into the root directory and copy additional settings so you don't loose them.

* Logical Editor, great tool. Terrible design, and when you start making logical functions that are pretty long. It's a nightmare trying to scroll from within the editor. Also, you can't scale it...

* Scalability - lots of Steinberg's plugins can't be resized or scaled.

* Old / New menus. There's still a lot of pop-up dialogue boxes that uses old designs. Good example is when they changed the Expression Map list to the newer box instead of using the long scrolling old menu. Still quite a some options that use the old style.

* Slow Auto-Save - On medium / larger projects it's so slow.. You'll be waiting a good few minuets for it to save just as you're mid-doing something.

* Slow Close time - always takes forever to fully quit Cubase on a medium sized project. Quicker using the task manager.

* Colour options and preferences are limited for main work areas.

* Can no longer shift select channels in the mixer and colour them (which you could in V9)

* Pool Window - Design needs updating.

* MIDI inserts need updating, It's like they've been forgot about.

* Their last 3 update cycles have all caused issues which have required patches, and the launches of major updates have been consistently not good.


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## chocobitz825

Particularly for Cubase and studio one I feel like comparisons are almost pointless when it comes to features and performance. It all comes down to the workflow you prefer. The last couple of years it seems like these two DAWs in particular have been circling each other adding and improving features the other already has or does better. They’re both great and you can’t really go wrong.


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## shponglefan

MarcusD said:


> * 4K scaling still an issue



SRSLY?

Why do DAW developers have so many issues properly supporting 4k.... ?


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## InLight-Tone

Already switched...


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## MarcusD

shponglefan said:


> SRSLY?
> 
> Why do DAW developers have so many issues properly supporting 4k.... ?



I forgot to state im talking 10.5, but I think on C11 there's still people saying its not quite correctly working. But most off my list still apply in C11.


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## Manaberry

hbjdk said:


> Have you considered Reaper?



Damn that was true! Reaper really did pay people to knock at doors to "Talk about Reaper"


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## shponglefan

MarcusD said:


> I forgot to state im talking 10.5, but I think on C11 there's still people saying its not quite correctly working. But most off my list still apply in C11.



Ah, understood. I was under the impression that 4k support was something that was supposed to be addressed in Cubase 11. I'm curious to see if that's the case, especially since I've also been demoing Studio One and running into 4k related issues with it.

I just want to be able to try out these DAWs without 4k support being an obstacle.


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## Jay Panikkar

4K issues partially resolved in Cubase 11. Previously, the only option was 200% scaling for HiDPI. C11 allows for 125% and 150% scaling (which is what I use). It works for the most part, but several third-party VSTs I had to manually scale up using the plugin's own settings.


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## shponglefan

Jay Panikkar said:


> 4K issues partially resolved in Cubase 11. Previously, the only option was 200% scaling for HiDPI. C11 allows for 125% and 150% scaling (which is what I use). It works for the most part, but several third-party VSTs I had to manually scale up using the plugin's own settings.



How does Cubase handle third party plugin scaling for plugins that don't have native scaling options?


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## MarcusD

chocobitz825 said:


> . It all comes down to the workflow you prefer. They’re both great and you can’t really go wrong.



Thats very true. Which is why I use Cubase, however the downside to any DAW is when you've been using long enough (across many versions) to eventually hit the limitations of its features (that are initially workflow enhancing). Over time, if the developer doesn't update and evolve them, they start to become counter productive and stagnate. Other DAWs then take note of this and start implementing better workflows. So, when those same old features haven't evolved with time/ users needs it causes frustration and causes them to start looking elsewhere. Espeshially when they've not updated features for years. Which is a shame.


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## Jay Panikkar

shponglefan said:


> How does Cubase handle third party plugin scaling for plugins that don't have native scaling options?



That's the part that the new update doesn't resolve. Plugins without native scaling options just stay at 100% scaling, which for my 4K display (BenQ 3270U) is barely legible. 

Tbh, I'm not sure how this can be resolved; even if they were to add some sort of universal scaling option, plugins without native scaling will be stretched into a blurry mess.


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## maestro2be

It's great to have options. I think sometimes it's really hard to to leave what you're comfortable with and have been using for so long. I for one always hated Cubase and never clicked with it's cumbersome and overwhelming amount of options/noise in every window of the GUI. It always temps me to try it each and every release. 15 minutes in and I am immediately reminded how clunky and overcrowded and illogically pieced together it feels. Don't get me wrong. They have done amazing things and had to continue to build on top of what they already had since their user base is so large. So for me, Cubase has always had me living in Studio One since its inception.

I even bought Nuendo and feel the same way. I thought surround sound support for more than 7.1 would be enough to tip me over to commitment. Not a chance. Very happy that so many DAW's give us all options. I don't think it will ever be possible to be the one and only end all be all DAW. I don't see how that can happen with such diverse personalities and work habits/preferences.

I like where I am but Cubase calls me to try it out every new release and I will probably keep doing so, just in case .


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## kitekrazy

I'm a sucker for DAW deals and got Cubase for $170. I'm not a fan of DAWs needing a dongle. S1 allow up to 5 activations. I just don't like the looks of Cubase and I rarely touch it. It's like anything else. It may be great but you just don't like it.


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## Jay Panikkar

maestro2be said:


> It's great to have options.



Absolutely. It's also great to have competition so the software development doesn't stagnate. Look at graphics design, for example, can't go anywhere without getting slapped in the face by Adobe products.


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## MarcusD

Jay Panikkar said:


> Look at graphics design, for example, can't go anywhere without getting slapped in the face by Adobe products.



hahah so true! Only thing tying some of us to Adobe is photoshop. Not a fan of their subscription model now... Suppose thats a good example of a company with good products, making frustraring choices that effect end users and cause them to walk to the edge of the plank. Luckly for us musos there are plenty of ships to set sail with. Yar!


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## shponglefan

Jay Panikkar said:


> Tbh, I'm not sure how this can be resolved; even if they were to add some sort of universal scaling option, plugins without native scaling will be stretched into a blurry mess.



Windows display scaling can scale them. For example, I have my 4k displays set to 175% scaling in Win 10, and it scales plugins just fine in other DAWs (e.g. Bitwig Studio, Reaper). They are going to be a bit blurry naturally (the consequence of any upscaling of raster images), but they're still perfectly usable.

I just find it odd that some DAW developers can implement this just fine, whereas others have issues.


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## PuerAzaelis

Manaberry said:


> Damn that was true! Reaper really did pay people to knock at doors to "Talk about Reaper"


When you do an audio send in Reaper you drag and drop the route button. When you do an audio send in Cubase you have to open the x, y, z, menu, etc ... ? Correct?


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## MarcusD

PuerAzaelis said:


> When you do an audio send in Reaper you drag and drop the route button. When you do an audio send in Cubase you have to open the x, y, z, menu, etc ... ? Correct?


you can right click any channel in cubase and select "create new send for track" same with groups.


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## Jay Panikkar

shponglefan said:


> Windows display scaling can scale them. For example, I have my 4k displays set to 175% scaling in Win 10, and it scales plugins just fine in other DAWs (e.g. Bitwig Studio, Reaper). They are going to be a bit blurry naturally (the consequence of any upscaling of raster images), but they're still perfectly usable.
> 
> I just find it odd that some DAW developers can implement this just fine, whereas others have issues.



Afaik, you can't use Cubase HiDPI setting in combination with Windows 10 compatibility scaling options. So you can either have everything stretched and blurry using the compatibility options, or you can use Cubase HiDPI settings for a mix of crisp UI, plugins with manual scaling and plugins that rendered so tiny they'll burn out your retinas. 

Unless I'm mistaken, the implementation issues are due to the platform—in this case, Windows and its classic Win32 limitations.


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## PuerAzaelis

MarcusD said:


> you can right click any channel in cubase and select "create new send for track" same with groups.


ok


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## shponglefan

kitekrazy said:


> I'm not a fan of DAWs needing a dongle.



This has always put me off of Cubase and seeing all the people having activation issues with Cubase 11 just reinforced that.


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## shponglefan

Jay Panikkar said:


> Afaik, you can't use Cubase HiDPI setting in combination with Windows 10 compatibility scaling options. So you can either have everything stretched and blurry using the compatibility options, or you can use Cubase HiDPI settings for a mix of crisp UI, plugins with manual scaling and plugins that rendered so tiny they'll burn out your retinas.
> 
> Unless I'm mistaken, the implementation issues are due to the platform—in this case, Windows and its classic Win32 limitations.



Other DAWs have figured it out. Both Bitwig Studio and Reaper can be used with crisp 4k interfaces, yet still scale up plugins to the Windows scaling settings. Bitwig Studio in particular is a dream to use in 4k. Everything just works.

Studio One also has an option for OS scaling of plugins, although that feature is currently buggy.


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## dcoscina

I’m really enjoying studio one. I created an AR1 template with all arts per track and it’s great. The score editor for me is the cleanest looking and easiest to use. It’s not perfect (held notes in a chord don’t carry over under changing notes) but it’s really an editor and not an engraving program. 

these are all tools and I’ve had a lot of success with S1 these days.


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## easyrider

dcoscina said:


> I’m really enjoying studio one. I created an AR1 template with all arts per track and it’s great. The score editor for me is the cleanest looking and easiest to use. It’s not perfect (held notes in a chord don’t carry over under changing notes) but it’s really an editor and not an engraving program.
> 
> these are all tools and I’ve had a lot of success with S1 these days.




Any chance I could have a copy of that AR1 template mate?


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## José Herring

As Cubase piles on more and more features that I could care or less about, I've started looking at Studio One as well. I guess I kind of miss the old days of having a lean DAW that doesn't have 1000 things that I never use. S1 looks clean to me. But, I'm sure there are going to be draw backs and also I don't have a lot of time to learn new DAWS these days.


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## Jay Panikkar

shponglefan said:


> Other DAWs have figured it out. Both Bitwig Studio and Reaper can be used with crisp 4k interfaces, yet still scale up plugins to the Windows scaling settings. Bitwig Studio in particular is a dream to use in 4k. Everything just works.
> 
> Studio One also has an option for OS scaling of plugins, although that feature is currently buggy.



Looks like I spoke too soon, I just found out there's a universal scaling option in Cubase 11. In the "functions" drop down menu next to the VST capture icon (camera) icon, there's an option that reads "Allow window to be resized." This option scales the selected VST to your current Windows scaling setting.


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## MarcusD

Just looking through S1 videos...and surprised by this macro chain that let's you load up tracks + custom channel insert chains via key stroke. Spent so long trying to find a way to do this in Cubase with the logical editor and macros, still not possible in 10.5. Cool stuff.


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## Rich4747

I am ready to switch maybe next year. 10.5 most likely my last cubase


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## ALittleNightMusic

S1 still needs some basics:
- Ability to nudge notes in milliseconds (if you like to use Cinematic Studio Series)
- Ability for key switches to have multiple output commands (if you like to use VSL / Synchron Player)
- More flexible color palette and UI customization (like opacity and contrast)

It's getting there though.


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## shponglefan

Jay Panikkar said:


> Looks like I spoke too soon, I just found out there's a universal scaling option in Cubase 11. In the "functions" drop down menu next to the VST capture icon (camera) icon, there's an option that reads "Allow window to be resized." This option scales the selected VST to your current Windows scaling setting.



How well does it work? Any issues with any plugins?


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## samphony

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> and so far I really like what I see, the scratch pad, the Dorico-esque flows, being able to recall mixes + mute/hide, the keyswitching looks great, the score view etc. and I have only been digging for 30 mins.
> 
> I am wondering if any Cubase folk who've tried out Studio One want to share thoughts and experiences?
> 
> Edit: even being able to use arranger to drag the entire structure around, wtf.


You can also copy paste/duplicate them withkey commands


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## Akarin

Lots and lots of good ideas in S1. Unfortunately, only half-baked features such as the chord track or the articulation switching feature. Also, for scoring to picture, it's not quite there yet.


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## dcoscina

easyrider said:


> Any chance I could have a copy of that AR1 template mate?


Here is my Studio One 5 Abbey Road Template (1 art per track). Nothing fancy for routing... all channels are disabled for fast loading.


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## MarcusD

dcoscina said:


> Here is my Studio One 5 Abbey Road Template (1 art per track). Nothing fancy for routing... all channels are disabled for fast loading.



Just a heads up. Unload the patches from Kontakt or Sine, before sharing any templates. Its part of OT policy, they'll probably ask you to take it down when they see it. ✌


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## dcoscina

MarcusD said:


> Just a heads up. Unload the patches from Kontakt or Sine, before sharing any templates. Its part of OT policy, they'll probably ask you to take it down when they see it. ✌


Good to know except this is Spitfire


----------



## MarcusD

dcoscina said:


> Good to know except this is Spitfire



Wow, actually thought it said ARK1 (at a glance). My mistake!


----------



## dcoscina

MarcusD said:


> Wow, actually thought it said ARK1 (at a glance). My mistake!


It’s all good.


----------



## chocobitz825

ALittleNightMusic said:


> S1 still needs some basics:
> - Ability to nudge notes in milliseconds (if you like to use Cinematic Studio Series)
> - Ability for key switches to have multiple output commands (if you like to use VSL / Synchron Player)
> - More flexible color palette and UI customization (like opacity and contrast)
> 
> It's getting there though.



though its not precise, I have a macropage for CSS that uses humanize and quantize by 50% to nudge notes just a bit forward and back


----------



## chocobitz825

Akarin said:


> Lots and lots of good ideas in S1. Unfortunately, only half-baked features such as the chord track or the articulation switching feature. Also, for scoring to picture, it's not quite there yet.



I've found the chord track to be extremely useful. What improvements do you think it would benefit from?


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

chocobitz825 said:


> I've found the chord track to be extremely useful. What improvements do you think it would benefit from?


I found it much better than Cubase's.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Oh and not to mention the companion App!!

Edit: Installed it and it just works. I am quite impressed.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

You can drag midi into audio and it will render, and then BACK into midi and it will revert back to midi. What the actual F


----------



## Allegro

I really don't want to like Studio One because of how invested I am in Cubase (template, logical editor, lemur etc) but have to admit - it's looking better and better every day.

- Expression maps equivalent
- PLE and MLE equivalent
- Middle mouse pan
and I'll switch


----------



## Jay Panikkar

shponglefan said:


> How well does it work? Any issues with any plugins?



The "resize window" option is similar to windows compatibility scaling settings—with all the blurry text and ui elements—except you get to turn it on for specific plugins. Unfortunately, after some testing, the results are not entirely there.

Altiverb, no native scaling, works with resizing.

Fabfilter, no native scaling, only new releases work with resizing.

Kontakt, no native scaling, the plugin window gets truncated at the side when resized. Very strange because the elements inside the window are resized correctly, but the container resizes into a truncated window.

It seems some plugins require changes on their side even with this new option.


----------



## Ozinga

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> You can drag midi into audio and it will render, and then BACK into midi and it will revert back to midi. What the actual F



It even converts back to midi preserving the edits you do to the audio file. ( cut, repeat etc) This is one of the most amazing features of Studio one and Presonus should promote things like this a lot more as not much people know about it, even some long time users.


----------



## brek

Ok, you all have me intrigued. I always thought DP or Reaper were going to bail me out of 20 years of Cubase. 

Anyway, riddle me this: can you color notes according to pitch in the piano roll?

This will be a deal breaker for me, so let me down gently.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

brek said:


> Ok, you all have me intrigued. I always thought DP or Reaper were going to bail me out of 20 years of Cubase.
> 
> Anyway, riddle me this: can you color notes according to pitch in the piano roll?
> 
> This will be a deal breaker for me, so let me down gently.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

So I was able to - in less than a minute - set up a macro and integrate it onto the tablet where it will, at the click of a button, insert FabFilter for me and even an fx chain.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

The filtering at the end is just, such a breath of fresh air compared to Cubase


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

The most interesting thing is that a lot of the big new features that Cubase has added recently seem to be all in Studio One (not necessarily C11)


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

So I have no set up scenes where you can mute/hide what ever tracks, name it and then add the scene to the tablet app and it recalls them instantly, so you have all your possible instrument filtering at the press of a button (with the correct name appearing on the tablet for reference). 

Of course this can be used with mixing snapshots too.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Note offset










VS Cubase


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Global Solo/Mute memory - amazing.

If you have multiple tracks solo'd, and use global unsolo, it will unsolo everything - fine, just like every other daw however, if you click global solo it will re solo the exact tracks without needing to re select them (works with muting as well)!


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Undo/Redo on plugin FX. Yes please.

Undo Quantize? Sure!


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Having all FX on a channel strip available in a tab is very handy.


----------



## MarcusD

Two issues I've encountered with S1. 

1. The macro function that let's you insert plugins, doesn't let you select amp sims from the drop down list of plugins (as they don't show) so I can't do a macro with Bias Fx or Guitar Rig. Also, when asking the macro to use a preset, it doesnt load the preset for the plugin you saved sometimes.

2. When scoring in dynamics on the score editor, if you tab to the piano roll and playback it doest always play the dynamic changes made in the score editor and reverts back to MIDI velocity. Seems buggy, unless how I'm expecting it to work isn't the correct way.


----------



## MarcusD

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> The filtering at the end is just, such a breath of fresh air compared to Cubase




With Cubase you can create visibility configurations and assign them a keystroke. However that involves a few steps, where as this search filter does it all. Really cool.

I also like how you can create groups for different sets of articulations, and when you select the group you can also select all the instruments assigned to preview and record instantly.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

MarcusD said:


> With Cubase you can create visibility configurations and assign them a keystroke. However that involves a few steps, where as this search filter does it all. Really cool.
> 
> I also like how you can create groups for different sets of articulations, and when you select the group you can also select all the instruments assigned to preview and record instantly.


It turns out the mix scenes are even better way to work with filtering


----------



## samphony

Allegro said:


> I really don't want to like Studio One because of how invested I am in Cubase (template, logical editor, lemur etc) but have to admit - it's looking better and better every day.
> 
> - Expression maps equivalent
> - PLE and MLE equivalent
> - Middle mouse pan
> and I'll switch


Why not readjust a little instead of waiting for features? Why not scrapping your whole workflow and try writing a cue with a fresh approach and then start adding back your workflow intentions?


----------



## DS_Joost

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> You can drag midi into audio and it will render, and then BACK into midi and it will revert back to midi. What the actual F



Yup. Wait till you realize that editing the audio and then reverting to midi will preserve the audio edits. That's ARA for ya.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna




----------



## wcreed51

S1 hardly has an expression map equivalent. That would be Cakewalk...


----------



## olvra

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> VS Cubase



not(e) here:

you did 32th on S1 but 16th on Cubase


----------



## macmac

Ozinga said:


> It even converts back to midi preserving the edits you do to the audio file. ( cut, repeat etc) This is one of the most amazing features of Studio one and Presonus should promote things like this a lot more as not much people know about it, even some long time users.


Yes to me this is the best part of S1, and I was really hoping to see this feature in Cubase 11.


----------



## shponglefan

Jay Panikkar said:


> Kontakt, no native scaling, the plugin window gets truncated at the side when resized. Very strange because the elements inside the window are resized correctly, but the container resizes into a truncated window.



That's interesting since the same issue is present in Studio One. Yet Bitwig Studio, Reaper, and standalone mode all work fine with Windows OS scaling and Kontakt.

So what are Cubase and Studio One doing that is different?


----------



## MarcusD

Is there anyway to Rename the buttons when creating your own custom macro tabs?


----------



## tack

Manaberry said:


> Damn that was true! Reaper really did pay people to knock at doors to "Talk about Reaper"


Hello, friend.


----------



## ennbr

MarcusD said:


> Is there anyway to Rename the buttons when creating your own custom macro tabs?



Sure right click on the Macro button then double click on the old name it's on the top of the list and change it to whatever


----------



## MarcusD

ennbr said:


> Sure right click on the Macro button then double click on the old name it's on the top of the list and change it to whatever



Cheers mate, was looking everywhere. Should of guessed it'd be something simple! Also, can you re-arrange the order of the Tab buttons? Doesn't appear to let you drag + drop to rearrange things.


----------



## ennbr

MarcusD said:


> Cheers mate, was looking everywhere. Should of guessed it'd be something simple! Also, can you re-arrange the order of the Tab buttons? Doesn't appear to let you drag + drop to rearrange things.



I've looked myself and have not see any way to rearrange buttons I usually delete the button and recreate at the new position on the toolbar. Maybe someone else has found a solution


----------



## studioj

Just signed up for Sphere (their new subscription plan) that gives you all the Presonus apps, and I am very impressed by Studio One. Looking forward to them fleshing out the keyswitch/ articulation function fully, but otherwise this DAW is a serious contender I hadn't really considered before. Stem bouncing is very similar to how Cubase used to do it, and so I imagine Presonus isn't that far off from allowing grouped queue stem export like Cubase 11 just released (amazing feature!). Loving the filter show/hide macro / toolbar workflow in S1.


----------



## MarcusD

ennbr said:


> I've looked myself and have not see any way to rearrange buttons I usually delete the button and recreate at the new position on the toolbar. Maybe someone else has found a solution



I've just discovered how to do it. Hold CTRL on your keyboard and click / drag


----------



## MarcusD

Ok, I'm sold.

Being able to easily set up things like this using the Tabs and Macro Editor is priceless. You could literally create a Macro function that inserts a plugin or a chain of plugins, and loads the presets you wish to use instantly. Best part is you can customise these tabs to look and act exactly how you need them to.

Massive time saver. Hate to say it but this is much more intuitive than Cubase using Visibility configurations and programming logical editor functions. Super quick to work with. The potential for creating really useful functions / macros and having them right in front of using your own personalised toolbar is pretty neat.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

MarcusD said:


> Ok, I'm sold.
> 
> Being able to easily set up things like this using the Tabs and Macro Editor is priceless. You could literally create a Macro function that inserts a plugin or a chain of plugins, and loads the presets you wish to use instantly. Best part is you can customise these tabs to look and act exactly how you need them to.
> 
> Massive time saver. Hate to say it but this is much more intuitive than Cubase using Visibility configurations and programming logical editor functions. Super quick to work with. The potential for creating really useful functions / macros and having them right in front of using your own personalised toolbar is pretty neat.




Will you be bringing your great Hollywood Orchestra template to Studio One?  Or...Logic...


----------



## MarcusD

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Will you be bringing your great Hollywood Orchestra template to Studio One?  Or...Logic...



The thought of recreating those template again, triggers some type of PTSD or PTTD (Post traumatic Template disorder). Mainly because of how the EW directory's work, you can't build 1 template to work across all versions. You need to build it from scratch for each version... Cubase made things difficult to get done quickly with certain features. 

Having said that, for S1 once I've got used to everything... Maybe. Doubt I'll be creating any for Logic (anytime soon), I can't justify purchasing a Mac + logic ATM. Maybe.... If the prices go up drastically... 


j/k lol.


----------



## method1

Does anyone know if S1 can play video via external device e.g Blackmagic?


----------



## Blakus

method1 said:


> Does anyone know if S1 can play video via external device e.g Blackmagic?


I sync it with VideoSlave over MTC/MMC


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

olvra said:


> not(e) here:
> 
> you did 32th on S1 but 16th on Cubase


That's not the point

Also I can't believe the amount of time I spent trying to set up Lemur with Cubase where the S1 app just works instantly. 

I am also suspecting we'll see a S1 + Notion integration long before we see Cubase + Dorico


----------



## Allegro

samphony said:


> Why not readjust a little instead of waiting for features? Why not scrapping your whole workflow and try writing a cue with a fresh approach and then start adding back your workflow intentions?


So in Cubase, I have it set up to show a unique tab on my tablet, based on the MIDI track I select using: Lemur, MIDI send, Input transformer and a MIDI filter per track. This way, I can see all of my articulations and mic positions + extra info for every instrument of every library I have on my tablet. Also works great for synthesizer layouts etc.

All of my VEP Kontakt instances are disabled and the vesp project loads under 30 seconds. Every time I enable a VEP plugin instance through Cubase+Lemur, an asterisk gets appended to my track name in Cubase, indicating that it's loaded in RAM. It gets removed when I disable it.

Using this method with PLE, I can quickly filter by tracks that have corresponding VEP instances loaded in RAM. This way I can manage my RAM better and potentially add thousands of tracks to my template without any RAM overhead.

Is there a way for me to achieve something similar in S1?


----------



## Lukas

MarcusD said:


> Cheers mate, was looking everywhere. Should of guessed it'd be something simple! Also, can you re-arrange the order of the Tab buttons? Doesn't appear to let you drag + drop to rearrange things.


You need to hold Ctrl (Cmd on Mac) while dragging. The same can be done with groups.

[edit]Oh you already found it... too late  [/edit]



MarcusD said:


> Being able to easily set up things like this using the Tabs and Macro Editor is priceless. You could literally create a Macro function that inserts a plugin or a chain of plugins, and loads the presets you wish to use instantly. Best part is you can customise these tabs to look and act exactly how you need them to.


You can even insert a new track, name it, add an instrument (or an instrument preset) and insert any FX chain to this track (channel) afterwards.



shponglefan said:


> That's interesting since the same issue is present in Studio One. Yet Bitwig Studio, Reaper, and standalone mode all work fine with Windows OS scaling and Kontakt.
> 
> So what are Cubase and Studio One doing that is different?


I thought I had explained it to you multiple times in the other thread.  Studio One supports OS window scaling natively. That's what I can tell... I can only guess what the other DAWs do. Seems Cubase 11 now supports native OS scaling too. My assumption is that Bitwig Studio and REAPER don't support the OS scaling but they just draw their entire GUI bigger and scale everything theirselves. That would be kind of a hacky solution - but at least it works better with plug-ins like KONTAKT that does weird things when the OS tries to scale its GUI 

But again - I'm not a Bitwig / REAPER programmer so it's just an assumption.



Allegro said:


> Every time I enable a VEP plugin instance through Cubase+Lemur, an asterisk gets appended to my track name in Cubase, indicating that it's loaded in RAM. It gets removed when I disable it.
> 
> Using this method with PLE, I can quickly filter by tracks that have corresponding VEP instances loaded in RAM. This way I can manage my RAM better and potentially add thousands of tracks to my template without any RAM overhead.
> 
> Is there a way for me to achieve something similar in S1?


I'm not quite sure what the advantage of the appended asterisk is. Has it another benefit than just having it in the track name so you can input "*" into your track filter textbox?

In Studio One 5 there's a "Hide disabled tracks" command that can do that without any track name filtering.






If you need the asterisk for other reasons too, maybe I could write a script for this at some point that adds and removes the trailing asterisk. Then you could use a macro to 1) enable the track and 2) add the asterisk or 1) disable the track and 2) remove the asterisk from the track name.


----------



## MarcusD

Lukas said:


> You need to hold Ctrl (Cmd on Mac) while dragging. The same can be done with groups.
> 
> [edit]Oh you already found it... too late  [/edit]
> 
> 
> You can even insert a new track, name it, add an instrument (or an instrument preset) and insert any FX chain to this track (channel) afterwards.
> 
> 
> I thought I had explained it to you multiple times in the other thread.  Studio One supports OS window scaling natively. That's what I can tell... I can only guess what the other DAWs do. Seems Cubase 11 now supports native OS scaling too. My assumption is that Bitwig Studio and REAPER don't support the OS scaling but they just draw their entire GUI bigger and scale everything theirselves. That would be kind of a hacky solution - but at least it works better with plug-ins like KONTAKT that does weird things when the OS tries to scale its GUI
> 
> But again - I'm not a Bitwig / REAPER programmer so it's just an assumption.
> 
> 
> I'm not quite sure what the advantage of the appended asterisk is. Has it another benefit than just having it in the track name so you can input "*" into your track filter textbox?
> 
> In Studio One 5 there's a "Hide disabled tracks" command that can do that without any track name filtering.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you need the asterisk for other reasons too, maybe I could write a script for this at some point that adds and removes the trailing asterisk. Then you could use a macro to 1) enable the track and 2) add the asterisk or 1) disable the track and 2) remove the asterisk from the track name.



Is there anyway to do advanced naming like in Cubase? In Cubase you can create logical function that lets you Prepend, Amend & Replace any text for any channel. You can also use to select channels and make specific alterations to naming. 

For example I could use a macro to replace patche names containing Strings Portamento, to Strings Port.


----------



## Lukas

MarcusD said:


> Is there anyway to do advanced naming like in Cubase?


Not out of the box but I wrote a script for this kind of replacements.


----------



## shponglefan

Lukas said:


> My assumption is that Bitwig Studio and REAPER don't support the OS scaling but they just draw their entire GUI bigger and scale everything theirselves.



The size displayed in Reaper and Bitwig Studio seems to be directly based on Windows scaling as well. If I change the Windows scale setting, the resulting DAW and plugin displays scale accordingly. Ditto for running Kontakt in stand-alone mode.

You can try it for yourself if you don't believe me. Just grab a demo of Reaper or Bitwig Studio and compare to Studio One or Cubase.

It's also worth noting that Reaper supports multiple High DPI mode options, as well as internal scaling for certain controls. So it's not just a singular implementation of HDPI support.


----------



## Lukas

shponglefan said:


> The size displayed in Reaper and Bitwig Studio seems to be directly based on Windows scaling as well. If I change the Windows scale setting, the resulting DAW and plugin displays scale accordingly.


Yes, they may *read* the Windows scaling *setting *but that does not mean the actual scaling is *done by the OS*. That's not the same thing.

It's not a matter of belief. Don't confuse the result with the underlying technique behind it. Of course, I believe that the scaling looks correct with REAPER and Bitwig Studio.


----------



## shponglefan

Lukas said:


> Yes they may *read* the Windows scaling *setting *but that does not mean the actual scaling is *done by the OS*. That's not the same thing.
> 
> It's not a matter of belief.



Even if this were true (and the reality is we just don't know), this still doesn't explain why Kontakt displays fine in stand-alone mode though, per Windows OS scale settings.

Do you think that Native Instruments has Kontakt handle its own display scaling, yet haven't given users the option to pick their own scale settings for it?

Obviously there is something wonky going on between how each DAW and stand-alone Kontakt is implementing scaling, but I still wouldn't necessarily absolve Presonus or Steinberg of however they implemented it.



> Don't confuse the result with the underlying technique behind it.



I'm not, but without more information I'm not going to necessarily speculate on what may or may not be causing the real issue. It could be any number of things.


----------



## Lukas

I don't know what REAPER and Bitwig do or what Kontakt does and I don't want to speculate wildly. It's a fair question of why OS scaling seems to be fine with KONTAKT running stand-alone or as a plug-in. I really can't answer it.

Everybody in the world is waiting for Native Instruments to implement VST 3, implement High DPI, implement modern VST features, etc. I think people should rather blame the plug-in manufacturers for that than PreSonus and Steinberg for not driving even more effort to support some few plug-ins that are at the state of 2010, technically.


----------



## chocobitz825

ALittleNightMusic said:


> S1 still needs some basics:
> - Ability to nudge notes in milliseconds (if you like to use Cinematic Studio Series)
> - Ability for key switches to have multiple output commands (if you like to use VSL / Synchron Player)
> - More flexible color palette and UI customization (like opacity and contrast)
> 
> It's getting there though.



looks like someone added a nudge by ms macro to presonus exchange


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

chocobitz825 said:


> looks like someone added a nudge by ms macro to presonus exchange



Interesting - how does it do it? Does it create a huge backlog in the undo history?


----------



## chocobitz825

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Interesting - how does it do it? Does it create a huge backlog in the undo history?



it seems to apply the nudge function 10 times, so I imagine this would impact undo history. For the sake of precision, this seems to function, but if you're just looking to move it a bit, the humanize/quantize option is probably quicker.


----------



## pinki

I am a very recent adopter of S1 after 20 years of Digital Performer. The thing I miss the most is DP‘s Chunks feature. Having multiple sequences switch between the same mixer output section was soo useful. Apart from that the transition has been pretty painless. And the Faderport 8...a dedicated hardware controller with proper faders and proper buttons, that’s a big deal. Bought one and like it a lot.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Another amazing feature
Ripple Editing (especially when used on voice over!)


----------



## HotCoffee

I downloaded the S1 demo a few days ago, but I just can't seem to get along with it. To me, it feels clunky compared to Cubase, which is odd given everyone's praise of its workflow enhancements when compared to Cubase. Perhaps I need to spend a few more days with it. I really want to like since I am itching to abandon Steinberg (I really like Cubase, but the company bothers me). For now, I sold myself out and updated to 11 (main reasons being SuperVision and the improved Sampler track), and the hope that the UI freeze bug had been resolved (nope!).


----------



## ReleaseCandidate

HotCoffee said:


> I downloaded the S1 demo a few days ago, but I just can't seem to get along with it. To me, it feels clunky compared to Cubase, which is odd given everyone's praise of its workflow enhancements when compared to Cubase.



For me it missed the goal too. They want to be something like a middle ground between Cubase and Live (with many features of Tracktion's Waveform), but it feels like a too 'dumb' Cubase and a overly complex, not elegant Live to me. Don't get me wrong, i still prefer S1 to Cubase's way of doing things (any DAW except Reaper and Sonar and FL is better , but when I need more features than Live it doesn't cut it, and it's still _way_ too unelegant to use compared to Live. Bitwig is actually the better mixture of both, although it lacks way more features.


----------



## chocobitz825

it should be noted that every DAW feels pretty awful at first because you won't be accustomed to what it does well, and you'll always compare it to the system you know better. The only real solid comparison is after you've done the work to understand all its features, set up your preferred templates/macros/workflow, and give it a few projects worth of time. Still, in the end, it just might not do what you need. 

The number one reason I love S1, is the lack of drop-down menus. I cannot stand how much other DAWs rely on clunky drop-down menus for their workflow. I'm a visual person, and the more menus I have to suffer through, the less inspired I feel. I used Cubase for years on windows until I switched to mac and got into logic, which never felt right. S1 felt like home very quickly. My last dabble into Cubase had me feeling that S1 and Cubase are like cousins. They are similar in many ways but just vary ever so slightly. You cant go wrong with either really.


----------



## ReleaseCandidate

chocobitz825 said:


> it should be noted that every DAW feels pretty awful at first because you won't be accustomed to what it does well, and you'll always compare it to the system you know better.



No, that's not true. The first time I used Live has been a revelation from Cubase's way of doing things. I guess people now coming from Cubase to S1 feel (almost  the same as I felt more than a decade ago. 
The problem _for_me_ with S1 is that it is almost as bad as Cubase but with many lacking and halfway implemented features, so no Reason[TM] to use it. DP, for example, feels way better than both for me and would be my 'all-in-one'-DAW (no Apple for me).




chocobitz825 said:


> it should be noted that every DAW feels pretty awful at first because you won't be accustomed to what it does well, and you'll always compare it to the system you know better. The only real solid comparison is after you've done the work to understand all its features, set up your preferred templates/macros/workflow, and give it a few projects worth of time.


My problem with new programs generally is the opposite, that I'm way to enthusiastic (you know, love at first sight and stuff...) at the beginning and later on, with and after real use, encounter their problems.


----------



## Lukas

shponglefan said:


> That's interesting since the same issue is present in Studio One. Yet Bitwig Studio, Reaper, and standalone mode all work fine with Windows OS scaling and Kontakt.
> 
> So what are Cubase and Studio One doing that is different?





shponglefan said:


> but I still wouldn't necessarily absolve Presonus or Steinberg of however they implemented it.





shponglefan said:


> I'm not, but without more information I'm not going to necessarily speculate on what may or may not be causing the real issue. It could be any number of things.


As I said it's a KONTAKT issue and NI needs to solve it. Perhaps you will believe it now that NI has made an official statement. Seems they received many complaints from Cubase and Studio One users in the last weeks so they will work on it.









My NI Plug-in Appears Broken on Windows 10


Symptom When opening an NI plug-in in a DAW on Windows 10, the plug-in window appears broken / with glitches. Cause On Windows 10 some DAWs (e.g. Ableton Live 10 and Cubase 11) support multiple dis...




support.native-instruments.com





_"On Windows 10 more and more DAWs (e.g. Ableton Live 10 and Cubase 11) support multiple display scaling factors for non-HDPI plug-ins. HDPI stands for "High Dots per Inch" image resolutions. Since not all NI plug-ins support HDPI yet, we are working on full compatibility.

Our developers are currently working hard on ensuring compatibility with our plug-ins which are not yet HDPI ready. We are confident to achieve compatibility before _*end of the year 2020*_."_


----------



## pixel

I gave up on Studio One. I'm "too old" to change DAW (now i can even understand PT users a bit :D) and all what I'm doing in SO is trying to make it be Cubase. Which is pointless. For me SO is still missing several "tiny" features but I have them in Cubase.
It was interesting experiment to try SO. Now I just have hope that further Cubase updates will bring something interesting for me. Other way I can still do everything what I want in Cubase 10.5 and Live 10.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

pixel said:


> I gave up on Studio One. I'm "too old" to change DAW (now i can even understand PT users a bit :D) and all what I'm doing in SO is trying to make it be Cubase. Which is pointless. For me SO is still missing several "tiny" features but I have them in Cubase.
> It was interesting experiment to try SO. Now I just have hope that further Cubase updates will bring something interesting for me. Other way I can still do everything what I want in Cubase 10.5 and Live 10.


That's fair enough. 

I paid for 10.5 and have not been able to use it the entire time because of the exp map bug and now they are onto 11. That's more than enough for me to ditch them.


----------



## EgM

pixel said:


> I gave up on Studio One. I'm "too old" to change DAW (now i can even understand PT users a bit :D) and all what I'm doing in SO is trying to make it be Cubase. Which is pointless. For me SO is still missing several "tiny" features but I have them in Cubase.
> It was interesting experiment to try SO. Now I just have hope that further Cubase updates will bring something interesting for me. Other way I can still do everything what I want in Cubase 10.5 and Live 10.



That's your mistake right there, you found a new partner and you want it to be like your ex 

Many users think that SO is missing some features but more than 80% of the time it's just designed in another way.


----------



## Lukas

EgM said:


> That's your mistake right there, you found a new partner and you want it to be like your ex
> 
> Many users think that SO is missing some features but more than 80% of the time it's just designed in another way.


Exactly. Trying to make Studio One behave like Cubase won't work. That's why it's not Cubase.


----------



## shponglefan

Lukas said:


> As I said it's a KONTAKT issue and NI needs to solve it. Perhaps you will believe it now that NI has made an official statement. Seems they received many complaints from Cubase and Studio One users in the last weeks so they will work on it.



Yup , I saw that! It's great news, since the NI plugins are long over due for proper HDPI support.

I assume this means we'll be getting native scaling in their plugins including Kontakt?


----------



## Lukas

shponglefan said:


> I assume this means we'll be getting native scaling in their plugins including Kontakt?


I assume they fix the compatibility issue first that causes the black GUI. Can't imagine that will re-build their GUIs until end of 2020  But let's see what happens.


----------



## PJMorgan

shponglefan said:


> Yup , I saw that! It's great news, since the NI plugins are long over due for proper HDPI support.
> 
> I assume this means we'll be getting native scaling in their plugins including Kontakt?



No for now they're making sure that all their current non hidpi plugins scale properly on 4k monitors in DAW's like Cubase & Ableton Live without cutting the gui in half like it does now. The gui's will still be a bit on the blurry side but I can definitely live with that more than the tiny gui's we have now.

There's no mention of when NI will have updated hidpi versions of their plugins but I imagine there'd need to be a lot of work done especially on the likes of Kontakt. We probably won't see a hidpi version of Kontakt until version 7 but NI could prove me wrong & I hope they do because even on a 1080p monitor some of Kontakt can be hard to make out at least for people with specs like myself.


----------



## InLight-Tone

There's no way to be comfortable and master a DAW in a week. These programs take time, and it takes quite a few tracks written to be able to truly see their strengths and weaknesses...


----------



## MarcusD

Lukas said:


> Not out of the box but I wrote a script for this kind of replacements.



Is this available for a small coffee donation?


----------



## shponglefan

PJMorgan said:


> There's no mention of when NI will have updated hidpi versions of their plugins but I imagine there'd need to be a lot of work done especially on the likes of Kontakt. We probably won't see a hidpi version of Kontakt until version 7 but NI could prove me wrong & I hope they do because even on a 1080p monitor some of Kontakt can be hard to make out at least for people with specs like myself.



I'd hope they'd come out with proper HDPI support before Kontakt 7. Last time between versions 5&6 was ~7 years IIRC. With 4k monitors and laptops becoming increasingly common, they're just going to fall further and further behind if they can't deliver proper support for those resolutions.

I can appreciate it's a non-trivial challenge given how old Kontakt is. At the same time, they've had years to work on this. Most other major plugin developers have been delivering, it's time for NI to do the same.


----------



## Lukas

MarcusD said:


> Is this available for a small coffee donation?


Yes, absolutely... I only have to make my scripts shareable  But I'm working on it... write me a message so that I let you know when it's ready.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Does S1 key switching support changing MIDI channels or just notes on the existing MIDI channel?


----------



## DS_Joost

ka00 said:


> Only switches on the same channel unfortunately (as far as I’ve been able to tell).



Yup, unfortunately. Should be able to switch channels with it too, so you can actually create maps for EastWest. Hope that isn't too far away. I would guess this shouldn't be too difficult to implement though.


----------



## José Herring

Is there a way to setup S1's Keyswitch lane to act like Cubase's Expression maps? I think the only thing I would miss is having the names of the articulations attached to the keyswitchs. So much easier for me rather than trying to figure it out on the spot through the note names of the Kewswitches.


----------



## ReleaseCandidate

ka00 said:


> As already mentioned, you cannot specify different channels the articulations will trigger. And as far as I can tell, you can only send one midi note on message with a value of 128 (which won't help you trigger CSS, CSB shorts, etc) and you can't send midi CC messages as keswitches either.



What the articulation management in S1 does, is name the notes in the piano roll (they're in special, red, lanes) and exclude them from some note actions, but not from all - a 'Select All' selects the keyswitches too. And you see them in the special automation lane, but in the automation lane your editing possibilities are more limited as in the piano roll. You do not get the right preview sound. I've never tried, but I guess you can assign the velocities like for normal notes in the piano roll (don't have S1 any more to try for myself).


----------



## ReleaseCandidate

ka00 said:


> Thanks for the additional info. I think until there's an expansion of the articulation mapping features in S1, I will just avoid that feature in favour of a track per articulation template approach.



Oh yeah, I forgot a thing: when you're setting the keyswitches in the piano roll, you can actually set 2 (or more) keyswitches at the some time, which doesn't work in the keyswitch lane.


----------



## Lukas

ka00 said:


> Edit: if anyone knows of any feature requests, specifically helpful to orchestral composers, that need upvoting on the Presonus support forums (because apparently that's how they decide which features to add/improve) feel free to post links here!


Here you are:





__





 Sound Variations as Note Attributes / Attach Sound Variations to Notes - Questions & Answers | PreSonus


Currently, Sound Variations are time-based, separate from notes and can be inserted at a ... copied and would always keep their Sound Variation.



answers.presonus.com








__





Sound Variations: Make multi instruments key-switchable / change MIDI channel by keyswitch [Completed 5.3] - Questions & Answers | PreSonus


It would be great if it would be possible to define Key Switches in Multi Instruments to ... that can send each articulation to different effects.



answers.presonus.com








__





Momentary Keyswitches / Hold Mode [Completed 5.2] - Questions & Answers | PreSonus


Keyswitch lane should allow for some keyswitches to engage when pressed and then disengage as soon ... putting in keyswitches in the piano roll view.



answers.presonus.com


----------



## DS_Joost

Macros as they are implemented in Studio One are a game changer. Reaper might have originated customizable toolbars, but Studio One does it so much more intuitively. And it goes deeper than Reaper even, out of the box (without scripting). 

Macro's are what the logical editor is in Cubase, but much more intuitive to use and a lot more organizable. I feel every compliment is an understatement to this feature, it's so good!


----------



## DS_Joost

Lukas said:


> Here you are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sound Variations as Note Attributes / Attach Sound Variations to Notes - Questions & Answers | PreSonus
> 
> 
> Currently, Sound Variations are time-based, separate from notes and can be inserted at a ... copied and would always keep their Sound Variation.
> 
> 
> 
> answers.presonus.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sound Variations: Make multi instruments key-switchable / change MIDI channel by keyswitch [Completed 5.3] - Questions & Answers | PreSonus
> 
> 
> It would be great if it would be possible to define Key Switches in Multi Instruments to ... that can send each articulation to different effects.
> 
> 
> 
> answers.presonus.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Momentary Keyswitches / Hold Mode [Completed 5.2] - Questions & Answers | PreSonus
> 
> 
> Keyswitch lane should allow for some keyswitches to engage when pressed and then disengage as soon ... putting in keyswitches in the piano roll view.
> 
> 
> 
> answers.presonus.com



Voted you beautiful bastard!


----------



## DS_Joost

ka00 said:


> Thanks for the additional info. I think until there's an expansion of the articulation mapping features in S1, I will just avoid that feature in favour of a track per articulation template approach.
> 
> Edit: if anyone knows of any feature requests, specifically helpful to orchestral composers, that need upvoting on the Presonus support forums (because apparently that's how they decide which features to add/improve) feel free to post links here!



Agreed. Keyswitches are a little undercooked as of now, but I don't doubt they won't expand on it. It's such a fresh breath of air to use a program by a developer that actually listens.


----------



## studioj

I added a request for alternate tempo maps. This feature has proven surprisingly useful in Logic.





__





Alternative tempo maps - Questions & Answers | PreSonus


Hello, I'd love to see the ability to have multiple temp maps, perhaps selectable like different ... to implement this. Thanks for reading / voting!



answers.presonus.com





These are some other things I'd like to see in Studio One...things that I've taken notes on as I've been exploring it over the last week. Please speak up if I've missed that some of this is possible! I'll add as requests in the presonus forum as time allows. but please feel free to add yourself if you'd like.

*******

CC Labels in MIDI editor - allow to rename them (so instead of “General Purpose 1” it can say cc16, or “Vibrato”…etc. - also it oddly increments the labels by 1, ie expression shows as control 12 rather than 11. 

Allow saving of automation lane view presets - ie to show a specific set of MIDI cc’s in the lanes. ie one preset would be Velocity, Modulation, Expression… another might be Velocity, Sustain… etc. 

Keyswitches - allow to send multiple keyswitches at once(some kontakt inst need this), allow to send keyswitches at specific velocity values, allow to send on specific MIDI channels or select specific MIDI channels, allow program changes and Continuous Controllers as switches (instead of keys) and specific values of each (ie cc32 at value 42 would trigger the articulation. Allow input trigger and output trigger to be different for all parameters. ie: a cc value could be used on input, but this would send a keyswitch on output to the VI. this allows for the most flexibility. 

Would like to see something like a Knife/slice tool to swipe attacks and/or releases of midi chords to create glisses, stagger start / end times. This functionality could be built into the current cut tool using modifiers I think. 

Key commands to show specific cc parameters as automation in the main tracks window - ie “show cc1, show cc11, etc”

Are cc’s being properly chased? it seems if there is a break between the regions, the following region ignores the previous regions cc settings when starting playback between the regions or on the second region. There needs to be a setting for “chase part automation”.

Need easy way to set more than one MIDI destination for a track for sophisticated controller setups (see MIDI Kinetics Composer Tools Pro). Multi Instruments don’t quite work for this because you lose the channel setting (can’t set MIDI channel). On MIDI Out setting just add a + to add MIDI Outs… and each midi destination for the track would have the destination and MIDI channel setting. Or as an alternative a command or control click on another output setting would add it rather than changing to it. 

Would love to see a new Bounce Multiple queue for stems like was just introduced in Cubase 11. Basically a batch queue that automates the solo - bounce process of exporting stems where all combined tracks feed through the master bus processing and any sends etc. Check off the channels/tracks to combine for each entry in the queue and then go get a coffee!!!!

Keyboard Shortcuts need other possible triggers, like MIDI and/or OSC. just keystrokes not enough. 

Need ability to change multiple selected tracks to cascading (ascending) MIDI channels. It’s not enough to allow this on new tracks, we need to be able to do it after the tracks are added as templates are constantly evolving and changing. There should be a universal function in S1 to change all selected tracks to same or cascading inputs/ outputs/ midi channels. Using modifiers for this is well adapted across many platforms (see Vienna, Logic, Pro Tools). Pro Tools has the best implementation IMO. 

I've heard the autosave feature can be problematic when session size gets large ... i haven't pushed it hard enough to see this, but I will probably avoid doing real projects in Studio One until that is addressed. 

I’d like to see a slightly quicker way to get to the automation lane for a parameter. instead of clicking on the parameter and hitting the little A in the top left corner, how about a click on the parameter with some modifier keys? and it pops the lane up. Such as control command click, or control option command click. However I think there are some options here that I haven't fully discovered yet with automation.


----------



## Lukas

studioj said:


> Keyboard Shortcuts need other possible triggers, like MIDI and/or OSC. just keystrokes not enough.


You can assign commands to buttons on your MIDI controller once you have set them up as control surface in your external devices list.



studioj said:


> I've heard the autosave feature can be problematic when session size gets large ...


What does "problematic" mean?


----------



## studioj

Lukas said:


> You can assign commands to buttons on your MIDI controller once you have set them up as control surface in your external devices list.
> 
> 
> What does "problematic" mean?


ah cool, thanks for the tip on the commands! I was reading that autosave is really disruptive ... ie as session size grows it can beachball the session for long periods of time when it activates. VS other DAWs that are less disruptive and are able to keep the autosave as unnoticeable. And that deactivating tracks doesn't change this behavior. Is that accurate?


----------



## Lukas

Well, autosave will take the same time as when you save manually.

One thing everyone can try is the "Use cached plug-in data on save" option in the Options. This usually decreases the save times a lot. But make a backup of your song and test it a few times with your template and instruments and make sure every instrument works correctly with this setting turned on.


----------



## studioj

Lukas said:


> Well, autosave will take the same time as when you save manually.
> 
> One thing everyone can try is the "Use cached plug-in data on save" option in the Options. This usually decreases the save times a lot. But make a backup of your song and test it a few times with your template and instruments and make sure every instrument works correctly with this setting turned on.


great tip, thank you!


----------



## MarcusD

@Lukas

I'll ask you this question because you seem to know Studio One very well!

Lets say I've exported an .XML file from Cubase containing 1 instrument track (with Kontakt on) and 15 MIDI channels (to control the other patches). I then open the .XML in Studio One. It'll give me 16 empty instrument channels (which is expected) however all my naming schemes remain which is the main reason for doing so and means I only need to load / connect, samplers / patches / outputs - back together.

On the 1st instrument track I load Kontakt and the patches, created the outputs etc... Now, when I go to select the remaining 15 instrument channels to control the patches and rout them to the 1st track with Kontakt, I can't find a way to select the outputs so they batch connect in ascending order. Is this only possible when creating new instrument tracks and using the options provided?

I've noticed there's a feature on the channel output that says "Assign in Ascending Order" however when using this it just disconnects the outputs to everything selected, instead of assigning them in ascending order. Is there a way to get this working for outputs?


----------



## Lukas

MarcusD said:


> Now, when I go to select the remaining 15 instrument channels to control the patches and rout them to the 1st track with Kontakt, I can't find a way to select the outputs so they batch connect in ascending order. Is this only possible when creating new instrument tracks and using the options provided?


I'm not quite sure which outputs you mean. Are you talking about the MIDI channel assigned to each of your 16 tracks and you want to batch-assign them with values 1..16? There's no command for that yet - but I already created a feature request for that some months ago so I hope we get an easier way to assign MIDI CHs in ascending order.

Or are you talking about the audio outputs coming from the Kontakt instance and you want to connect the tracks to the mixer channels? (Although the answer is probably the same I guess - feature request exists).

I must say I kind of stopped using multitimbral instruments, I use them as single instances most of the time. Once it's set up, it works pretty well but I like to have independent instruments and channels so I can duplicate them, remove them without getting gaps... and I still hate multi out routing in Kontakt. It's way easier in Omnisphere but I got used to single instrument instances and it simply feels more flexible. But if course that's a matter of taste and personal workflow.


----------



## MarcusD

Lukas said:


> I'm not quite sure which outputs you mean. Are you talking about the MIDI channel assigned to each of your 16 tracks and you want to batch-assign them with values 1..16? There's no command for that yet - but I already created a feature request for that some months ago so I hope we get an easier way to assign MIDI CHs in ascending order.



Exactly that, but for audio outputs so the 15 instrument tracks sharing the same instance of Kontakt can map the stereo outputs from 1 - 16 also. Was also going to ask about MIDI being able to do this because those two features would make template building really quick. Shame it's not implemented yet, that'd be super handy.

Sorry about the crude ms paint image. lol


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Lukas said:


> I'm not quite sure which outputs you mean. Are you talking about the MIDI channel assigned to each of your 16 tracks and you want to batch-assign them with values 1..16? There's no command for that yet - but I already created a feature request for that some months ago so I hope we get an easier way to assign MIDI CHs in ascending order.
> 
> Or are you talking about the audio outputs coming from the Kontakt instance and you want to connect the tracks to the mixer channels? (Although the answer is probably the same I guess - feature request exists).
> 
> I must say I kind of stopped using multitimbral instruments, I use them as single instances most of the time. Once it's set up, it works pretty well but I like to have independent instruments and channels so I can duplicate them, remove them without getting gaps... and I still hate multi out routing in Kontakt. It's way easier in Omnisphere but I got used to single instrument instances and it simply feels more flexible. But if course that's a matter of taste and personal workflow.


cann you link the request so i can vote plz


----------



## chocobitz825

EgM said:


> That's your mistake right there, you found a new partner and you want it to be like your ex
> 
> Many users think that SO is missing some features but more than 80% of the time it's just designed in another way.



I felt like a dope when I bought pluginguru’s unify plugin only to remember later that studio one natively supports creating multi instruments.


----------



## Lukas

MarcusD said:


> Exactly that, but for audio outputs so the 15 instrument tracks sharing the same instance of Kontakt can map the stereo outputs from 1 - 16 also. Was also going to ask about MIDI being able to do this because those two features would make template building really quick. Shame it's not implemented yet, that'd be super handy.


Ah I see. This used to work - seems it's currently broken. I just reported that.


----------



## muziksculp

chocobitz825 said:


> I felt like a dope when I bought pluginguru’s unify plugin only to remember later that studio one natively supports creating multi instruments.



Hope to see them add a Velocity/Velocity X-Fade parameter for multi-Instruments in S1 Pro 5 via a future update. That would make using them so much more versatile.


----------



## R.Cato

Some missing features for me would be:


ability to save a bunch of instrument tracks including group busses as one easy to recall preset
in the midi editor it would be great to have an active chord display as in Cubase, makes finding wrong notes way easier
better video integration
faster scrolling as mentioned before
5.1 is a great update of Studio One and it's almost there to leave Cubase behind. Nearly every feature Studio One has, which is also in Cubase, is more pleasing to use imo, but it's not quite there yet.


----------



## EgM

R.Cato said:


> faster scrolling as mentioned before



If they'd speed up the scrolling without any slider option, I'd be mad as hell... I left Cubase partly because I hated its super-speed scrolling


----------



## chocobitz825

R.Cato said:


> Some missing features for me would be:
> 
> 
> ability to save a bunch of instrument tracks including group busses as one easy to recall preset



Does drag&drop from a song file in the browser not cover this?


----------



## Phillip Dixon

5.1.1. They get these out quick


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Of all the features,

I honestly think I could point to this video and say this is why I am moving to S1


----------



## brek

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Of all the features,
> 
> I honestly think I could point to this video and say this is why I am moving to S1




That looks slick, curious how it handles MIDI that is not 100% quantized. That's the true bane of my existence when it comes to MIDI editing.


----------



## Lukas

brek said:


> That looks slick, curious how it handles MIDI that is not 100% quantized.


What do you expect? How should it handle notes differently when they're not quantized?

I almost exclusively work with piano parts that are not quantized and MIDI editing is a blast  (even more with the music editing toolbar)


----------



## brek

Lukas said:


> What do you expect? How should it handle notes differently when they're not quantized?
> 
> I almost exclusively work with piano parts that are not quantized and MIDI editing is a blast  (even more with the music editing toolbar)



It's another one of those unicorn features in DP - it can apply some fuzzy logic when editing MIDI parts - that I keep hoping will show up somewhere else. I haven't touched DP in over 10 years so obviously it's not a deal-breaker feature (and I may not be remembering it exactly)!


----------



## Lukas

brek said:


> it can apply some fuzzy logic


Okay, that's not that detailled


----------



## dcoscina

Lukas said:


> What do you expect? How should it handle notes differently when they're not quantized?
> 
> I almost exclusively work with piano parts that are not quantized and MIDI editing is a blast  (even more with the music editing toolbar)


5.1.1 fixed the issue with the notation editor held notes not showing properly. Awesome


----------



## studioj

brek said:


> It's another one of those unicorn features in DP - it can apply some fuzzy logic when editing MIDI parts - that I keep hoping will show up somewhere else. I haven't touched DP in over 10 years so obviously it's not a deal-breaker feature (and I may not be remembering it exactly)!


Yeah DP was really good at recognizing "phrases" ... so when editing sections it would always pull over notes that started before your edit point and continued into the section you were cutting, as well as notes that extended beyond the edited section. No other DAW really does this quite as well. I think S1 gives you the choice of either slicing overlapping notes at edit points, or erasing the overlapping portions? I saw that in a video anyway.... maybe not ideal for music not quantized to the grid. But I haven't gotten into this kind of editing with it yet. Curious how it works!


----------



## MarcusD

Another thing to add to the positives list:

The Fat Channel plugins that emulate classic hardware are surprisingly, really good sounding. Better than Steinberg's vintage stock offerings in C11. Although the caveat is you have to purchase the extras with S1, however they're very cheap and if you're on the subscription plan they're included anyway.


----------



## DS_Joost

MarcusD said:


> Another thing to add to the positives list:
> 
> The Fat Channel plugins that emulate classic hardware are surprisingly, really good sounding. Better than Steinberg's vintage stock offerings in C11. Although the caveat is you have to purchase the extras with S1, however they're very cheap and if you're on the subscription plan they're included anyway.



Also, the included (and updated) Ampire is seriously one of the best amp plugins I've ever heard... if not just the best. The way it reacts to incoming audio is next level really.


----------



## MarcusD

DS_Joost said:


> Also, the included (and updated) Ampire is seriously one of the best amp plugins I've ever heard... if not just the best. The way it reacts to incoming audio is next level really.



Yet to try it out, but I've downloaded the update ready for a play later. Also noticed there's an IR maker in the plugins list, so you can build your own custom IRs?? 

The more I dive into S1 the more I'm impressed by how much thought has gone into the little things to keep it simple, sure there's a couple features that are not there yet but overall the experience has been head-ache free.


----------



## DS_Joost

MarcusD said:


> Yet to try it out, but I've downloaded the update ready for a play later. Also noticed there's an IR maker in the plugins list, so you can build your own custom IRs??
> 
> The more I dive into S1 the more I'm impressed by how much thought has gone into the little things to keep it simple, sure there's a couple features that are not there yet but overall the experience has been head-ache free.



Yes, you can create your own IR's indeed. You can't, however, load them into Ampire. For that you need the convolution reverb within Studio One. Ampire might seem a bit light featured compared to something like Amplitube. However, if you add to that the splitter, you can have two Ampire's, one for left and right independendly. The implications for this in terms of creativity are endless.

And there you have what's so impressive about Studio One. It's more than the sum of it's parts. It feels cohesive, like one feature flows into the next. It's an incredibly well designed full package that also has an incredibly bright future.


----------



## Trash Panda

I’ve read the version comparison, but don’t understand the lingo very well yet.

What are the biggest features that warrant getting Professional instead of Artist?

I have plenty of VIs, sample libraries and effects, so those aren’t really a selling point for me.


----------



## MarcusD

OK, another huge + is the mix splitter (after spending more time with it). You can theoretically build your own plugin from within the splitter using what ever plugins you already own (as you have full control over the signal chain) It's so quick to use it blows my mind.

Not only can you split the signal in a number of ways, but being able to adjust frequency crossover for each split means you can create your own "signature plugin" by processing each cross over point before it's summed back together.

This breaths new life into existing plugins you may own that lack certain features. For example, you could build a multiband compressor using an 1176, or a mix of different compressors together to create something different. Or build your own FabFilter Saturn plugin using lots of different distortion plugins...

From a sound design P.O.V it's a big thumbs up because trying to set something like that up in Cubase means you'd have to spend ages creating a bunch of duplicates, groups, sends etc.. etc.. It makes building some crazy Diego Stocco styled processing chains, for live instrument performances, really easy. Having it all on one fader with no additional tracks needed.

The only thing I wish was better, is to have a way to solo and mute the splits as a global panel from within the GUI. It's kind of annoying having to select the splitter box to get the mute options up..


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Hey I am getting a little confused here.

Lets say I insert a kontakt instance with 2 instruments (channel 1 and 2). If I solo 1 of the tracks it solos all channels however, if I mute 1 track it only mutes that track.

Is this usual?


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

I am also finding that CSS struggles to keep up with chased midi ccs in S1. Works fine with everything else.

No idea why


----------



## Ozinga

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Hey I am getting a little confused here.
> 
> Lets say I insert a kontakt instance with 2 instruments (channel 1 and 2). If I solo 1 of the tracks it solos all channels however, if I mute 1 track it only mutes that track.
> 
> Is this usual?




No, Solo and Mute works normal here with multi.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Ozinga said:


> No, Solo and Mute works normal here with multi.



really? Hmm.

no idea what this is doing
View attachment 2020-11-26 18-32-10.mp4


----------



## Ozinga

Yeah that is weird. Does it still happen when you create it from scratch on a new session?


----------



## Kony

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I am also finding that CSS struggles to keep up with chased midi ccs in S1. Works fine with everything else.
> 
> No idea why



I think I've found out why it's not working


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Ozinga said:


> Yeah that is weird. Does it still happen when you create it from scratch on a new session?


Yeah every time.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Kony said:


> I think I've found out why it's not working


Your favourite meme. He haunts me.


----------



## Lukas

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Lets say I insert a kontakt instance with 2 instruments (channel 1 and 2). If I solo 1 of the tracks it solos all channels however, if I mute 1 track it only mutes that track.
> 
> Is this usual?


You need to assign the output "Channel" for your second track in the inspector. Then the tracks and channels should be linked correctly. If you open the mixer it's easier to see what's actually going on when you mute / solo tracks or channels


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Lukas said:


> You need to assign the output "Channel" for your second track in the inspector. Then the tracks and channels should be linked correctly. If you open the mixer it's easier to see what's actually going on when you mute / solo tracks or channels


Even if I do that and solo 1 of the channels, in the mixer I can see that it's soloing everything related to that VST


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Okay wait - that's confusing. Even if I have the VST running through different channel strips (outputs) I still need to select the channel in the info area?

Ugh still not working. Mute works fine.


----------



## chocobitz825

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Okay wait - that's confusing. Even if I have the VST running through different channel strips (outputs) I still need to select the channel in the info area?
> 
> Ugh still not working.



i see you're using kontakt. have you set the output channels within kontakt and then activated those outputs?


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

chocobitz825 said:


> i see you're using kontakt. have you set the output channels within kontakt and then activated those outputs?


Yeah

I tried in sine same result


----------



## chocobitz825

do you have _Cue Mix Follows Channel _enabled_?_


----------



## Lukas

We can't see the Mixer. How does the Mixer look like? And is your Listen Bus activated?


----------



## telecode101

FWIW. the more I use Cubase the more I am happy I use. I just had a eureka moment using it this week. There is a feature I never knew was there and it below me aware. It's such a great DAW (at least for the type of music I do).


----------



## MarcusD

One issue I've run into with S1, there's a random instrument track in my template that can only be seen in the mixer and there's no way to delete it. If I right click on the channel, there's no option to remove track or remove track and instrument. The channel does not show in the main project and also doesn't even show in the track list.

I've even tried deleting it using the Macro short keys for Remove Track, Remove Track and Instrument, Remove Channel... etc... It's like a shit that wont flush.

Also, the template I'm building is currently at 860 tracks with all tracks disabled, however the CPU usage is around 20% in task manger? Cubase uses slightly less CPU with a bigger version of template when everything is disabled. Assuming it's a CPU bottleneck, how does S1 allocate cores compared to Cubase?.

Finally, the Filter function, and macros for search filters, have become very slow (due to the track count), when compared to a bigger version of the template in Cubase.

Any thoughts?


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## Lukas

MarcusD said:


> One issue I've run into with S1, there's a random instrument track in my template that can only be seen in the mixer and there's no way to delete it. If I right click on the channel, there's no option to remove track or remove track and instrument. The channel does not show in the main project and also doesn't even show in the track list.


What you see in the mixer are channels, not tracks. Tracks are these lanes in the arrangement where you add your events, notes, automation etc. Channels is where audio comes in in the mixer.

In your case it sounds like you have an instrument in your instrument rack that appears as a output channel. Instruments that are not used are greyed out in the rack so they are easy to recognize. The easiest way to get rid of them is click the little arrow in the instrument rack and run "Remove unused instruments". This will make your channel disappear...




MarcusD said:


> however the CPU usage is around 20% in task manger? Cubase uses slightly less CPU with a bigger version of template when everything is disabled


What the task manager shows is a very unprecise value... it doesn't really tell anything meaningful about the actual CPU load. You can't compare the CPU meters in different DAWs either. They don't work the same. They only way to compare the "real" CPU load is to create the same song and see when you get actual dropouts in each DAW.


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## MarcusD

Lukas said:


> The easiest way to get rid of them is click the little arrow in the instrument rack and run "Remove unused instruments". This will make your channel disappear...



EDIT : Sorted it... As expected down to my own stupidity. Track numbers and instance numbers weren't correlating because I was renaming the Instruments in the Rack. Every time I added an new instance of Play, it sent the numbers out of sequence with Track numbers, so I'd be continually looking at the wrong thing to remove.

However, the issue with the UI is still a problem if you want to remove it using the drop down arrow. The overlaps are stopping me from doing it that way.


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## Lukas

Maybe there's something wrong with my smartphone browser... but I can't see any UI issue on the screenshot.


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## MarcusD

Lukas said:


> Maybe there's something wrong with my smartphone browser... but I can't see any UI issue on the screenshot.



Because there's an overlap, when I click the arrow it takes me to the track listed underneath. Instead of showing the drop-down menu.

If the names for the rack instruments are long, it causes this to happen. If you use short names it's fine and wont do this overlap.


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## Lukas

You're at the wrong place. The instrument rack is in the mixer.


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## Jerry Growl

I had decided not to upgrade this year... 

I had been checking all Cubase promotion videos. I couldn't detect a single useful improvement (for me).

Then I saw Guy Michelmore's video



So out goes my wallet again


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## Haziel

Wow I just tried the articulation mapper, it's amazingly easy to use. I might subscribe to sphere and leave ol' reaper behind. S1 works so well, I don't need any tutorial to do anything, everything works as most people would expect. And the score editor actually makes sense.  Reaper has more arcane features but I feel like S1 focuses more on features for actual production and implement them right.


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## vitocorleone123

Haziel said:


> Wow I just tried the articulation mapper, it's amazingly easy to use. I might subscribe to sphere and leave ol' reaper behind. S1 works so well, I don't need any tutorial to do anything, everything works as most people would expect. And the score editor actually makes sense.  Reaper has more arcane features but I feel like S1 focuses more on features for actual production and implement them right.



There's software tools that are developed, and others that are designed. I've always felt Reaper to be developed but not designed. I'm painting with broad strokes, but that's how I'd sum it up (I'm a UX designer and Reaper has always looked and felt like a guru developer project).

I'm also new to S1. I have a Groove subscription for a bit longer via izotope and watched (on high speed because the narrator is a very slow talker) their 6hr overview of S1. It helped.


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## Trensharo

For producing electronic music and Hip Hop, Studio One any day. Its Artist SKU is also far superior to Elements at getting people onto the DAW at very low prices. Cubase basically isn't worth it unless you're going straight to Artist, at least, IMHO.

For Film Scoring and Orchestral, Cubase. It's just way better with large templates, and some of the tooling is underrated, but has a big impact on workflow once you get around to adopting them. 

Cubase is better for audio engineering and music design work, as well (though I'd prefer something like Samplitude or Pyramix for that).

I really dislike using Cubase on smaller laptop screens. Studio One is designed to work better on those form factors.


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## Ozinga

Trensharo said:


> I really dislike using Cubase on smaller laptop screens. Studio One is designed to work better on those form factors.



+1

To me that is the biggest problem. Steinberg thinks every user has at least 3 27'' screens.
They did not even implement native pinch zoom in/out or other gestures like Logic have for trackpad.
When using a laptop, with Logic and Studio one you get more information and function without changing the screen set.


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## SimonCharlesHanna

Does anyone know if you can utilise music loops or instrument presets with multiple instrument tracks? I can get them by dragging via "tracks" in another project but I cant figure out a good way to keep them all together.


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## Lukas

You can only use them for one instrument. Of course you could create a Multi Instrument and save it as a multi... but it doesn't really make sense as you would have to drag them out of the Multi Instrument every time you load this patch.

Why not just use the Files tab and create a folder for Rhodope II etc.?


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## samphony

ka00 said:


> Is there a way to make the channel name (at the bottom of each channel) wrap to two lines? A lot of my channel names are long and get cut off.
> 
> My workaround has been to also enable the channel notes section and put the full name there. But it's a lot of typing in a big project.
> 
> Thanks



long standing Feature Request


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## olvra

ka00 said:


> Is there a way to make the channel name (at the bottom of each channel) wrap to two lines? A lot of my channel names are long and get cut off.



we had this then Steiny took it from us :(

6.5, If I remember correctly


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## olvra

Cubase 8 had it for sure:







source: 




edit: resize


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## SimonCharlesHanna

Lukas said:


> Why not just use the Files tab and create a folder for Rhodope II etc.?


How do you do that? In a project under tracks I have everything I need (folder + every channel) but in windows file explorer those files do not appear. 

To clarify, I dont know how to save a multi channel instrument.


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## Lukas

6:00 -> just use Instrument+FX presets or raw presets instead of musicloops.


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## SimonCharlesHanna

Lukas said:


> 6:00 -> just use Instrument+FX presets or raw presets instead of musicloops.



But the instrument + FX preset wont retain the channels, I'd have to create them every time I import the preset correct?

I am either being unclear or getting confused (sorry!)

If I navigate in FILES to my current project which has Rhodope (1 kontakt instance w/6 inserts - channels 1 - 6) set up how I like it, I can drag the contents as you see below and it will re-load the instrument perfectly.

I am just wondering if I can save this somehow in another folder as a preset (it doesn't let me move the file around nor can I find this particular file in FILE EXPLORER).






EDIT: someone asked on S1 forum - it seems if I have a dedicated Template song where I keep all multitimbral instruments and then create a root tab, it will work


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## Lukas

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> But the instrument + FX preset wont retain the channels, I'd have to create them every time I import the preset correct?


That's true... this is hopefully being addressed in a future update. For now, there is a workaround and it seems to work reliably for me:

Insert a Mixtool into every instrument output channel before saving the Instrument+FX preset. If there is at least one insert fx, the multi out channels will be recalled with the Instrument+FX preset. The same works for musicloops.

It's a workaround but it works fine on my end. So I would just create Instrument+FX presets and move them into your custom folders.


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## olvra

ka00 said:


> I'm using Cubase as well, and it does actually wrap to two lines in the mixer if the name is long



Really? 

That's what I get on 10.5, WIN10


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## khollister

Wraps for me with 10.5 and 11 on Mac as well


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## Tren

Ozinga said:


> +1
> 
> To me that is the biggest problem. Steinberg thinks every user has at least 3 27'' screens.
> They did not even implement native pinch zoom in/out or other gestures like Logic have for trackpad.
> When using a laptop, with Logic and Studio one you get more information and function without changing the screen set.


I'm taking back my statement after using the Studio One 5.1 Trial. Tons of small buttons and tabs. Narrow Mixer Lanes. Tiny plug-in thumbnails (and why do I have to click into a menu to generate one?). _VendorPlugin_x64_ for half of my plugins, with no way to set a friendly name. Etc.

I actually kind of hated using it on my 15.6" FHD Laptop.

Too bad, because you can get the cross grade for $169 during the sale. But I doubt I'll ever use it, so I'm passing.

Also, is it just me or does it feel like the Arranger and Mixer are not totally in sync. It feels like some things you do in one don't affect the other, and vice versa. That is very unintuitive.

I do like the _general layout_. Reminds me of ACID Pro. They should put some better metering/analyzers on the Song Page (not just the project page). Maybe that is just my novice level in this DAW getting the better of me, and I couldn't find where this stuff was. I've already uninstalled it, so I can't check again.

I also find the reliance on drag and drop for so much feels awful to use on a Windows Laptop that doesn't have a *gigantic *track pad, never mind the amount of double tapping and dragging you have to do for so much in this DAW. I actually find this works better on a desktop, and on a laptop I tend to prefer more extensive keyboard navigation/triggering. Cubase feels better because it's better designed up for that kind of workflow.

This is why the tiny buttons, tabs, etc. are also such a huge PITA (and the smaller plugin/instrument thumbnails, narrower mixer channels, etc.) - for me.

I think some of the dialogs in Cubase are more of an issue than the actual base DAW interface itself. Those dialogs are pretty huge in some cases. Catches people using older/cheaper 768p displays by surprise (see these complaints every now and then on Reddit and other forums).

Oh... Almost forgot. Studio One takes like 2x as long to load third party plugins as Cubase and Cakewalk by BandLab on my Laptop (i7, 32GB RAM, NVMe SSD). I almost thought the DAW crashed in some cases, due to how long it took to load virtual instruments.

Ignorable, but I'm always triggered when developers default to installing tons of program content to the user documents folder. There is what %ProgramData% and %AppData% are for. It's as if they refuse to pay attention, even though it's been about two decades since NT became the Windows platform for everyone.

DAW Content, Presets, etc. should not be creating tons of folders in the user documents folder. Those are for... user documents.

Every time I set up a new PC, I end up with ~15-20 "configuration data" or "content" folders in my Documents folder because DAW and plugin developers are too clueless to do it the right way.


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## Lukas

Tren said:


> Ignorable, but I'm always triggered when developers default to installing tons of program content to the user documents folder. There is what %ProgramData% and %AppData% are for. It's as if they refuse to pay attention, even though it's been about two decades since NT became the Windows platform for everyone.


In "Studio One" in the user documents folder you find your songs, your macros, your shows, your presets (no stock presets, these are just the presets YOU create in Studio One), user templates and custom plug-in thumbnails. Pretty much user content, right?  Yes, there's also a Sound Sets folder but of course you can have Sound Sets at another location too, you just need to add this path in the options.



Tren said:


> Also, is it just me or does it feel like the Arranger and Mixer are not totally in sync. It feels like some things you do in one don't affect the other, and vice versa. That is very unintuitive.


Sounds pretty much like you haven't understood the concept behind it yet. Because it's actually pretty logical. If you have a specific question about it, I'm sure we can answer it. But since you don't give an example, I'm not sure how to help in this case. The concept of tracks and channels is a bit different than in Cubase or Logic but I'm not sure if this is what you call "not in sync". Would be interesting if you relate to the mute/solo behavior or the 1:1 relationships between tracks and channels.

Here's one of Gregor's videos explaining the tracks/channels concept in Studio One. I made the same video in German last year.


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## khollister

Tren said:


> I'm taking back my statement after using the Studio One 5.1 Trial. Tons of small buttons and tabs. Narrow Mixer Lanes. Tiny plug-in thumbnails (and why do I have to click into a menu to generate one?). _VendorPlugin_x64_ for half of my plugins, with no way to set a friendly name. Etc.
> 
> I actually kind of hated using it on my 15.6" FHD Laptop.
> 
> Too bad, because you can get the cross grade for $169 during the sale. But I doubt I'll ever use it, so I'm passing.
> 
> Also, is it just me or does it feel like the Arranger and Mixer are not totally in sync. It feels like some things you do in one don't affect the other, and vice versa. That is very unintuitive.
> 
> I do like the _general layout_. Reminds me of ACID Pro. They should put some better metering/analyzers on the Song Page (not just the project page). Maybe that is just my novice level in this DAW getting the better of me, and I couldn't find where this stuff was. I've already uninstalled it, so I can't check again.
> 
> I also find the reliance on drag and drop for so much feels awful to use on a Windows Laptop that doesn't have a *gigantic *track pad, never mind the amount of double tapping and dragging you have to do for so much in this DAW. I actually find this works better on a desktop, and on a laptop I tend to prefer more extensive keyboard navigation/triggering. Cubase feels better because it's better designed up for that kind of workflow.
> 
> This is why the tiny buttons, tabs, etc. are also such a huge PITA (and the smaller plugin/instrument thumbnails, narrower mixer channels, etc.) - for me.
> 
> I think some of the dialogs in Cubase are more of an issue than the actual base DAW interface itself. Those dialogs are pretty huge in some cases. Catches people using older/cheaper 768p displays by surprise (see these complaints every now and then on Reddit and other forums).
> 
> Oh... Almost forgot. Studio One takes like 2x as long to load third party plugins as Cubase and Cakewalk by BandLab on my Laptop (i7, 32GB RAM, NVMe SSD). I almost thought the DAW crashed in some cases, due to how long it took to load virtual instruments.
> 
> Ignorable, but I'm always triggered when developers default to installing tons of program content to the user documents folder. There is what %ProgramData% and %AppData% are for. It's as if they refuse to pay attention, even though it's been about two decades since NT became the Windows platform for everyone.
> 
> DAW Content, Presets, etc. should not be creating tons of folders in the user documents folder. Those are for... user documents.
> 
> Every time I set up a new PC, I end up with ~15-20 "configuration data" or "content" folders in my Documents folder because DAW and plugin developers are too clueless to do it the right way.


I'm evalutaing S1 as a Cubase/Logic user. Allow me to point out a couple things.

1) The mixer channel width and height is controlled with buttons in the lower left of the mixer pane that look like arrowheads. One changes from tall/narrow to short with buttons to flyout the inserts and sends. The other toggles between normal and super skinny channel widths.

2) I suspect the disconnect between tracks and mixer channels is due to S1 only displaying a channel strip for audio objects in the mixer, e.g. instruments tracks with no VI inserted (basically a MIDI track in Cubase) will not have a corresponding channel in the mixer. Cubase OTOH creates a mixer channel for MIDI tracks where the fader does nothing and the "VU meter" indicates MIDI activity. S1 also allows you to have multiple instrument tracks all referencing the same VI instance, so there will be a single mixer channel (audio) but multiple tracks (MIDI).

3) A corollary of (2) is there are 2 different delete commands for tracks - one that just deletes the track, leaving the instrument channel (shift-T) and another that tears down the track and instrument channel (Remove Track and Instrument - no default shortcut key).

I agree that the UI has a lot of small icons/buttons that are not always logically placed IMHO. However the upside is no menu bar diving, unlike Cubase. Cubase is honestly not very obvious at times either but we know it. S1 is growing on me.


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## khollister

And ironically, I have returned to trying on S1 due to some annoying/critical bugs in Cubase on Mac (C11 is unusable at the moment although Steinberg says they are working on a fix). S1 has behaved perfectly on my Macs, contrary to the tribal knowledge over on GS and KVR that S1 is pants on a Mac.

I find that assertion particularly dubious since Gregor, Joe and others that demo/train S1 for Presonus are all using Macs from what I see. A this point in time, S1 5.1.1 is more bug-free on my Macs than either Cubase or Logic (!).

The only major feature I could use in S1 is to finish building out the articulation implementation. I use VSL Synchron player a lot and need more than just single layer key switches.


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## Lukas

khollister said:


> I find that assertion particularly dubious since Gregor, Joe and others that demo/train S1 for Presonus are all using Macs from what I see.


Gregor is using both Mac and Windows... so am I.


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## ReleaseCandidate

khollister said:


> A this point in time, S1 5.1.1 is more bug-free on my Macs than either Cubase or Logic (!).



At least using Windows you're getting crashes when using Melodyne via ARA 2.


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## khollister

ReleaseCandidate said:


> At least using Windows you're getting crashes when using Melodyne via ARA 2.


May happen on Mac as well - I do very little audio recording and almost never use pitch correction, so I wouldn't run into it.


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## Tren

Lukas said:


> In "Studio One" in the user documents folder you find your songs, your macros, your shows, your presets (no stock presets, these are just the presets YOU create in Studio One), user templates and custom plug-in thumbnails. Pretty much user content, right?  Yes, there's also a Sound Sets folder but of course you can have Sound Sets at another location too, you just need to add this path in the options.


The user document folder is the *default installation directory* for all of the sound sets. Unless you manually change this, it will install 37GB+ content to:

C:\Users\<User Name>\Documents\Studio One\Sound Sets

DAW Sound Sets are not "user content." They're program content, and the default installation directory should be something like:

C:\ProgramData\PreSonus\Studio One\Sound Sets

As is the case for many other DAWs and even many Virtual Instruments that include sample libraries.

If someone has their Documents Folder synching to OneDrive or iCloud, and doesn't manually change that installation directory, their PC will start uploading everything and eating 37GB+ of their cloud storage with those files.

And no, I don't consider Plug-In Thumbnails to be User Content, either. The default folder for that stuff should be:

C:\Users\<User Name>\AppData\Local\PreSonus\Studio One\<Sub-Folder>

%AppData% exists to house 90% of the stuff you mention (Plug-In Thumbnails, User Templates, User Macros, User Presets, etc.).

And it isn't a Studio One/PreSonus specific issue - the issue is that so many developers do the same thing, which results in users having massive amounts of files and folders in user documents that really shouldn't be there... which is annoying if you ever have to search for anything and then 50 macros/preset/thumbnail/etc. files are showing up in the list - becuase the Indexer is set to skip directories like %ProgramData% and %AppData%, but not the User Document folder. 

VST Plugins will create preset folders in the user documents folder, as well. Melodyne will create Audio Data folders in the User Music directory (Lol, what?). It's just a really annoying "problem" with Windows developers. They don't really respect these types of guidelines. macOS developers are much better - generally speaking (I never really had this problem on my iMac - not to the extent that I experience on Windows - 27 folders that "shouldn't be there" in my User Documents folder).

As a developer, it's just a pet peeve of mine.


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## Lukas

Tren said:


> DAW Sound Sets are not "user content." They're program content, and the default installation directory should be something like:
> 
> C:\ProgramData\PreSonus\Studio One\Sound Sets


I don't agree. As this is sample content I want this to be stored at a custom location ... in my case it's an own drive / partition for sample libraries. I don't think 37 GB should stored in an ProgramData folder either. The user should specify a custom location. Fortunately Studio One allows to change this in the settings.

The other folders are user data too (songs, shows, projects, templates, macros...) and I do want to have them backupped. The only thing I want to be separated too, as I said, are Sound sets.


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## greggybud

olvra said:


> Really?
> 
> That's what I get on 10.5, WIN10


This is a known issue in C10.5 and C11 under Windows 10. (Did this behavior exist under C10 and Windows 10?) I don't know about Mac. Ironically, iirc it works or worked correctly under Windows 7. When I upgraded from Windows 7 to 10 I then noticed no wrapping. I'm pretty sure this was prompted by the release of Windows 10, but not positive.

Bottom line is it's a known issue.


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## Tren

Lukas said:


> I don't agree. As this is sample content I want this to be stored at a custom location ... in my case it's an own drive / partition for sample libraries. I don't think 37 GB should stored in an ProgramData folder either. The user should specify a custom location. Fortunately Studio One allows to change this in the settings.
> 
> The other folders are user data too (songs, shows, projects, templates, macros...) and I do want to have them backupped. The only thing I want to be separated too, as I said, are Sound sets.


I think your reading comprehension is failing you...

The *Default *Installation directory in Studio One is in the User Documents Folder.

The *default *should be in %ProgramData%. This is where Program Data goes - program data that you need to be available for that application across user accounts, which must be in a directory that allows non-priviledged R/W access (so, "Program Files" is out).

%AppData% exists to hold that other stuff - User-specific Application Data. It is a subdirectory of the User Folder, but hidden by default, and not scanned by the Indexer. It exists for this reason - This is where Application Stock Macro Files, etc should go. https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/appdata-where-to-find-the-appdata-folder-in-windows-10/ (Do you even know what you're talking about?)

Smart developers put everything in ProgramData, and then copy the user stuff to AppData when that user launches the program. This is what, for example, Cakewalk SONAR and DaVinci Resolve does. Lots of Lazy Programmers just abuse the user and public documents folders.

This is not really worth arguing over - and not because I think I'm incorrect. It's mostly a pet peeve, and it's something that I notice a TON more on Windows than on macOS. I get over it by simply using a different drive as my Documents folder, and setting the Indexer to skip the user documents folder (and scan the other drive).

I don't think I've ever set up a Mac for Audio/Video Production and ended up with 15-21 directories in my user documents folder... directories that belonged in the System or User Library Folders.

But developers tend to follow guidance a lot more closely on macOS than they do on Windows. This is mostly just laziness/sloppiness, and you're defending it almost as if I've rebuked your DAW choice.

I don't care what you use, or why you use it. This "issue" is really tangential to the topic - and I indicated it as such when I mentioned it.


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## estevancarlos

God, this thread is making me feel awful about purchasing Nuendo. Although I haven't activated it yet.

I am focusing on scoring. I was using Studio One for several months. There's a lot of bogus advice out there suggesting you can use any DAW you choose. It turns out your DAW needs to support SMPTE which Studio One doesn't. It breaks my heart. I moved over to try the Cubase 11 trial and I can't believe what I'm seeing and experiencing. I've been using modern complex software with decent UI/UX for years. Cubase has been shocking.

I feel like I went on a blind date and they turned out to be much older than I expected, wears mismatched _hip _clothing from the early 2000s, and is confusing to talk to.

I'm at a point where I'm considering selling my Windows system in order to get a Mac and just use Logic Pro instead.


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## samphony

estevancarlos said:


> I feel like I went on a blind date and they turned out to be much older than I expected, wears mismatched _hip _clothing from the early 2000s, and is confusing to talk to.
> 
> I'm at a point where I'm considering selling my Windows system in order to get a Mac and just use Logic Pro instead.


A lot of focus in the Studio One 5 cycle is put onto scoring to picture. So every feedback counts. Just keep in mind the team behind Studio One software is rather small but efficient. As with everything Software development related implementation needs time. 

Also regarding the mac ecosystem i can highly recommend getting a mac mini and keep your windows system. It’s a low expense but a great way to evaluate logic pro.


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