# Music in your mind.



## a7 (Jul 14, 2010)

How does it work for you? Do you compose music in your mind? Do you focus the music, or do you just let what comes through come through? What do you do when all that is coming through is Cat Scratch Fever?

I've never paid alot of attention to the music I might hear in my mind, mainly because I thought you had to be a musical genius to be able to transcribe what you hear into notation. Silly idea, I know. Anyway, the only other method available to me was working the music out on an instrument, but the instrument always seemed to just get in the way causing me to lose the music that was floating around in my mind.

Now, I've started studying the art of hearing with the intent of developing my transcription abilities so that I may just jot down what I'm hearing without messing around with an instrument. So, I'm starting to actively listen to the music that is floating around upstairs and I might as well be listening to the radio, since all I'm hearing is other peoples music. 

Anyone else have experience with this and if so, how do you get your mind to focus on something original?


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## wst3 (Jul 15, 2010)

a7 @ Thu Jul 15 said:


> How does it work for you? <snippity>
> Anyone else have experience with this and if so, how do you get your mind to focus on something original?


How does it work for me??? Too many ways<G>!

The whole stream of consciousness thing is great, when it works. I don't really differentiate between what is purely in my head and what gets from my head to an instrument (usually guitar, sometimes piano or electronic keys). I'm not claiming that I can play everything I hear in my head, far from it I'm afraid, but I can almost always get enough of the idea down to go to the next step.

Some of the stuff that I am most proud of came about as the result of just noodling around - often while watching whatever it is I am trying to write for, but sometimes just sitting around will do the trick. Once I get the basic idea, or I suppose once I recognize the basic idea, then it is time to become more disciplined and really think about it. It's that germ of an idea thing that gets tricky.

When that doesn't work (the muse is visiting the islands or whatever) then I like to play "math games". What would it sound like if I tried to build chords off this particular bass line, or what happens if I use this mode, or any other silly idea that just pops into my head. These are strictly theory exercises, but they will often attract the muse.

For these sorts of things I work almost exclusively with pencil and paper, and work at hearing it in my head. I think that works for me because it's a kind of comfort zone, it's how I started.

Really, I still find the whole thing to be a complete mystery! Where do the ideas come from, and the corollary of course: "was that the last musical idea I'll ever have?"

The trick to transcribing what you hear in your head, I believe, is to make the transcription process itself disappear. I was fortunate, as a student, to have teachers that gave me lots of transcription exercises. I am by no means a black-belt transcriber, but I have a decent sense of relative pitch, and don't usually have to focus on the process. This is especially true if it is just music in my head - ironically I find it much more difficult to transcribe from a recording. Weird eh?

So my suggestion would be to develop your transcription chops by transcribing stuff from recordings, and then as that starts to become natural try to transcribe someone else's pieces from memory instead of the recording. When you get to that point I'll bet you'll be able to transcribe your own ideas quickly.

The rabbit hole in all of this is the tendency to start composing or arranging - at least that's a trap I fall into a lot. I'll be transcribing a melody and I'll start thinking about this line or that... a complete distraction!

Have fun!


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## bryla (Jul 15, 2010)

wst3 @ Thu Jul 15 said:


> This is especially true if it is just music in my head - ironically I find it much more difficult to transcribe from a recording. Weird eh?


It's not really weird. In a recording you have to transcribe someone elses mind. What comes out of your mind is limited to what you can hear yourself.


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## EthanStoller (Jul 15, 2010)

99% of my compositions come from improvising aimlessly on the keyboard until something sticks. Once in a while, I'll hear a bassline in my head. In that case, I let technology help me. Here's an example where I was hearing a bassline and I left myself a voicemail so I wouldn't forget, followed by the recording I made with the idea:
http://www.dynamiteham.com/vmmusic.mp3 

Not a great piece of music really, but a good illustration of the process for me.


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## a7 (Jul 15, 2010)

No one else hears or has issues hearing music in their head?


Ethan, that's pretty much the same for me at this point. 

wst3, I still need to work on the relative pitch, but the math games sound interesting.


When you do those math games, how do you hear the result? does it just pop up, or do you have to force the sound in your head?


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## rgames (Jul 15, 2010)

I definitely hear the music in my head - not always, sometimes it emerges from screwing around - but I'd say I almost always start out with a mental concept. I even "dream" music sometimes.

However, I don't often write down note-for-note transcriptions, mainly because I'm not very good at it - no formal training there and I never bothered to try to train myself - maybe someday...

Rather, I get the music down in broader strokes: e.g. let's say I'm hearing something in my head that's in a major key, sort of a soaring melody with a busy bassline. I'll start with the "major", "soaring melody", and "busy bassline" parts and use that to guide my writing or playing as I try to match what I was hearing in my head. Might not be note-for-note what I was hearing in my head, but it's the same basic musical construct: major, soaring melody, busy bassline. Knowing what a major key is and what intervals are associated with a soaring sound helps land the notes in about the right spot.

It's kind of like doing quick math in your head: sometimes it's too tough to do the details so you work with something similar that's easier to compute and gets you to about the right answer. For me it seems like it's the same mental gymnastics. (Gotta say, though, the math part pays a LOT better!)

That's the roughing-in part. From there I'd say 90% of the rest of it comes straight from my head. As I play back through a piece, my brain starts inserting or correcting certain elements that I then adjust or add by hand (in the score or MIDI editor - almost never played in). Used to be a lot of hunt and peck during that process but I'm much better at doing that now.

That second part can be dangerous, though, because you can get stuck hearing things that aren't actually there. Or ignoring things that are there but shouldn't be. That's why I never send off a track that's very fresh in my head - I make sure I get it out of my head then come back fresh for another listen after a few days of working on other tracks.

rgames


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## poseur (Jul 18, 2010)

it's an odd, but important, set of questions you're asking.....
at least, for me:
as it relates to what has seemed to be at the core of the general nature of my own music-making process.

i often compose away from instruments, away from pencil & paper, away from computer;
in the car (if necessary), on planes etc, and very often while walking & sitting.

i always take note of what i suspect will be the basic orchestration, time signatures, tempii
of what i'm hearing & developing.
if what i'm hearing is in any way reminiscent of any piece that i already know well,
i'll use sections of that piece as mnemonic-triggers for anything i might forget:
a similar rhythmic figure, a similar harmonic structure or density, similarities in melodic shape/intensity/arc,
and mark where the differences lie, in my memory, attached to the appropriate musically mnemonic device.

as well, i always sing what is singable to myself, repetitively,
and often tap-out the notable rhythmic grids.....
sometimes in my head, sometimes aloud (mostly, softly).

if it's a particularly complex bit of stuff,
i'll just jot down the core ideas, or explain it/play it/sing it into my always-handy voice-recorder
(whose recordings are easily transferable into my composing computer).

while walking, i tend to use the recorder:
tap out the tempo, & sing the horizontal parts individually, each separated by Nn beats of "tempo tapping".

at some point, owing to the nature of film-composing,
i'll start playing parts on instruments:
if there's an actual (ie, non-virtual) instrument involved in the piece that i can play,
eg piano, guitars & textures, mandolins, ouds, harmonium, cumbus, saz, steel guitar, bass, etc,
i'll extemporise on the parts right away, & record that.
of course: sometimes, it'll just be virtual instruments, at first.
c'est tout!
that's it, for me.

as well:
like rgomes, i think, i lean towards approaching composition as, essentially, improvisational,
albeit improvisations that might withstand & benefit from post-facto direction & development,
improvisations that might also withstand the injection of systemic limitations to-be-imposed.

put simply:
i'm not ever interested in "finishing" pieces which i cannot continuously feel, somehow,
in one way or another.....
and, withing those "feelings", i include all of the spin from my own more intellectualised faculties of analytical consideration, comparative assessment, & etc.
this, whether the piece is for a film, or simply as a piece of music.
i gotta respect the music & my commitment to it, whether or not i like the final result.

hearing & writing _internally_ is, for better or worse,
a key to persevering towards further forging that commitment, for me,
as it has been for most of my life.

d


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## lux (Jul 18, 2010)

nice thread.


i have to say this quote by poseur made me think a bit:



> while walking, i tend to use the recorder:
> tap out the tempo, & sing the horizontal parts individually, each separated by Nn beats of "tempo tapping".



mostly because i tend to not keep track of what comes in mind even when in front of my computer with sequencer open and a vst loaded. Thinking at me recording while walking is something almost sci-fi.

Sometimes i think i should change my way of thinking about that. Maybe i just victim of a form of limited self respect but i always think that something which comes in my mind at a wrong time doesnt worth it. I'll have maybe another idea sooner or later.

Luca


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## Lex (Jul 18, 2010)

I hear music, and other stuff in my head since I was 4 years old.

And I like composing while riding bicycle or taking walks, or sitting on bench and observing people....


aLex


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## Dan Mott (Jul 19, 2010)

Folmann @ Mon Jul 19 said:


> Great topic.
> 
> We all have our individual ways/patterns of approaching composition due to our backgrounds.
> 
> ...




I love this!!

So true.


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## Narval (Jul 19, 2010)

Folmann @ Sun Jul 18 said:


> I don't think about rules/theory/conventions anymore - things just happen now and if it sounds good - it is good.
> 
> Its all about the ear ... and the fear.


And the gear.


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## StrangeCat (Jul 19, 2010)

writers block can make you do crazy stuff!!!

it's all in your mind.... (o) composing I mean.


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## poseur (Jul 19, 2010)

Narval @ Mon Jul 19 said:


> Folmann @ Sun Jul 18 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think about rules/theory/conventions anymore - things just happen now and if it sounds good - it is good.
> ...


and, maybe the beer.
or, the way you steer.
or, who is near,
or, a will that's sheer, with a pill that's dear.....
and, certainly, some bills-in-arrears.....

so, it might appear.....
that this may end in tears,


cheers,
d


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## Narval (Jul 19, 2010)

poseur @ Mon Jul 19 said:


> Narval @ Mon Jul 19 said:
> 
> 
> > Folmann @ Sun Jul 18 said:
> ...


That's oh so clear.

The sign of good poetry is that it looks/sounds like mere play on words while in fact telling truths that would otherwise remain untold. You sir are a Poet.


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## David Story (Jul 19, 2010)

Go with a feeling, send your mind reeling
Focus on your gear, to heart draw it near
To be original, begin aboriginal
Remember music is beyond the notes

And thanks to poseur and all good artists that show the way by example.


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## poseur (Jul 21, 2010)

lux @ Sun Jul 18 said:


> thinking at me recording while walking is something almost sci-fi.



it's not at all sci-fi, for me.....
just an easy, technological extension of what i was already doing
when using my mnemonics-"system"..... which i also continue to employ, regularly.
and, fwiw:
i do NOT record _every_ bit of music that i hear;
i select & choose what i'll record,
& it's then only the bits that i _feel_ strongly enough to develop, internally.



lux @ Sun Jul 18 said:


> Sometimes i think i should change my way of thinking about that. Maybe i just victim of a form of limited self respect but i always think that something which comes in my mind at a wrong time doesnt worth it. I'll have maybe another idea sooner or later.


well --- certainly, i discard more than i actually use.
and, i'm neither _flippant towards_ nor _precious about_ the music that emerges internally:
no matter:
i hear it, nonetheless,
and proceed in attempting to sharpen the keenness-of-my-ear-for-it:
it's there..... and,
i do believe that it's for me to decide whether-or-not it's "worthy" of my attention.

in any case, i feel quite strongly about some of the music i've "imagined" in this way.

d


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## a7 (Jul 22, 2010)

[quote:e3f1b5efd2="poseur @ Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:25 pm"]it's an odd, but important, set of questions you're asking.....
at least, for me:
as it relates to what has seemed to be at the core of the general nature of my own music-making process.

i often compose away from instruments, away from pencil & paper, away from computer;
in the car (if necessary), on planes etc, and very often while walking & sitting.

i always take note of what i suspect will be the basic orchestration, time signatures, tempii
of what i'm hearing & developing.
if what i'm hearing is in any way reminiscent of any piece that i already know well,
i'll use sections of that piece as mnemonic-triggers for anything i might forget:
a similar rhythmic figure, a similar harmonic structure or density, similarities in melodic shape/intensity/arc,
and mark where the differences lie, in my memory, attached to the appropriate musically mnemonic device.

as well, i always sing what is singable to myself, repetitively,
and often tap-out the notable rhythmic grids.....
sometimes in my head, sometimes aloud (mostly, softly).

if it's a particularly complex bit of stuff,
i'll just jot down the core ideas, or explain it/play it/sing it into my always-handy voice-recorder
(whose recordings are easily transferable into my composing computer).

while walking, i tend to use the recorder:
tap out the tempo, & sing the horizontal parts individually, each separated by Nn beats of "tempo tapping".

at some point, owing to the nature of film-composing,
i'll start playing parts on instruments:
if there's an actual (ie, non-virtual) instrument involved in the piece that i can play,
eg piano, guitars & textures, mandolins, ouds, harmonium, cumbus, saz, steel guitar, bass, etc,
i'll extemporise on the parts right away, & record that.
of course: sometimes, it'll just be virtual instruments, at first.
c'est tout!
that's it, for me.

as well:
like rgomes, i think, i lean towards approaching composition as, essentially, improvisational,
albeit improvisations that might withstand & benefit from post-facto direction & development,
improvisations that might also withstand the injection of systemic limitations to-be-imposed.

put simply:
i'm not ever interested in "finishing" pieces which i cannot continuously feel, somehow,
in one way or another.....
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## poseur (Jul 22, 2010)

a7 @ Thu Jul 22 said:


> Interesting. That is taking "music in your mind" to the extreme, I'm sure.
> 
> I never thought of trying to use some sort of mnemonic to remember parts.



it doesn't feel "extreme" at all, to me, but rather quite a natural development.
fwiw!

d


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## JohnG (Jul 25, 2010)

Philip Glass has quite a bit to say about composing. One that I think is particularly apt:

“Let’s say that you woke up in the morning and you looked out across a field and it’s very foggy and you can’t see very much. If you wait a little bit you start to see the outline of a tree; and maybe, in time, you’ll see a building. And in time you might eventually be able to see everything.“

_ -- Philip Glass_


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## poseur (Jul 25, 2010)

JohnG @ Sun Jul 25 said:


> Philip Glass has quite a bit to say about composing. One that I think is particularly apt:
> 
> “Let’s say that you woke up in the morning and you looked out across a field and it’s very foggy and you can’t see very much. If you wait a little bit you start to see the outline of a tree; and maybe, in time, you’ll see a building. And in time you might eventually be able to see everything.“
> 
> _ -- Philip Glass_



thanks, j!
that is a great quote; no sh•t.

it's true, for me, that the paying-of-attention to my internal music is,
is, in fact,
like looking across such a field.....
the "work" may, indeed, be yet to come, but:
the more i've done this (& the work that follows, itself), 
the more value i've invested in the actuality of the initial moment of recognition.....
and, i seem to be able to "see more" at that first blush, as the "discipline" has progressed.

sometimes?
i'm looking at a veritable nuclear dumping ground.
other times?
it's lovely, powerful, etc (and, maybe _fruitful_) sight.

so:
that's why i continue to attend to the activity of the "inner stream"
(for lack a of better terminology for this).

personally, i can't imagine really writing music in any other way,
without some perception/conception/vision to which i'm indelibly "tied";
nor do i (personally) know many composers whom i respect who do not share
something like a similar path,
ranging through both my teachers & friends.

d


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## poseur (Jul 27, 2010)

john's post of the philip glass quote brought this to mind:

an excerpt from an interview with one of my most revered living composers,
*tigran mansurian*.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ_9BPPesKc&feature=related

enjoy, i hope.
d


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## PoppaJimmy (Jul 28, 2010)

Hello All,

Enjoying this thread. I agree that all methods of composing are valid. It really depends on so many aspects of the individual.

poseur: Loved the interview link.

For myself, like Lex above mentioned, I hear music in my head 24/7 and have done since age six. I hear it completely clearly like an orchestra (or band) is playing right next to me. I hear any kind of instrumental combination, can decide which instruments I want to hear in which combinations and what they are playing, can hear more than one line simultaneously and sometimes even more than one piece. It is absolutely clear all the time. I don't have perfect pitch but definitely have well developed relative pitch so most of the time I can write down what I'm hearing with little trouble.

Besides my own composing, I work as an arranger/orchestrator for stage shows (Musical Theatre and Vegas Variety shows) and often have to write a lot and fairly quickly. Many songwriters I work for are wonderfully gifted and creative but not well trained musically so they sometimes sing to me or play on their instument (almost always piano or guitar) and I write down what they are playing. To a great extent, this doesn't require a keyboard.

Since my keyboard playing is fairly mediocre, if I wrote by improvising or playing, I feel I would be limited by my playing ability or habits. The music I hear in my head is WAY beyond my ability to play and when you add counterpoint and modern scales and harmonies, as well as orchestration, there is no way I could play what I hear.

Up until about 4 years ago, I was a pencil and paper writer. I now use Sibelius and find it extemely useful. Because of it, I virtually never need a keyboard anymore since Sib. plays the notes as I enter them. 

My process is usually, that I hear notes, lines or progressions in my head, I type (the note for example) and hear it played back right then. I know immediately if I made a mistake in typing so the process is very fast. I type on the QWERTY keyboard rather than playing the notes in because typing feels the same as writing with a pencil. It feels natural to me and the pace is similar to pencil and paper composing. Mostly I write directly to full score since that is what I'm usually hearing in my head. I rarely do sketches or that sort of thing. 

When writing 'songs' the process is a bit different in that I write the song and lyrics at the piano (still out of what I'm hearing in my head) and usually make a lead sheet by hand. I then think about the arrangement, create a score in Sibelius, transfer the melody and chords to the score and then write/type the arrangement and orchestration into the score.

So, this is the way it works for me. Obviously, all artists are different and it's cool to hear how others work. Thanks for sharing your ways.

Be Well,

Jimmy


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## JohnG (Jul 28, 2010)

At the very end of the Tigran Mansurian interview, he says,

"The whole question is to conceive a work, to clean it, so that its vitality, its elixir, its life, is not destroyed; to leave it alive and breathing, but give it a form, a length; for it to be constructed, but not artificial."

-- Tigran Mansurian

And I think this is one of the main challenges, often emotionally debated, that we all face. How much do we mess about with the original kernel? How easy to spoil or obscure that germ that inspired us to write in the first place, with too many notes, too many "tricks," too much power / polyphony, and so on.

This metaphor of "cleaning" a work of music reminds me of something I read about Michelangelo, who, it was said, felt that he was freeing a statue from the marble around it: 

“In every block of marble I see a statue as plain as though it stood before me, shaped and perfect in attitude and action. I have only to hew away the rough walls that imprison the lovely apparition to reveal it to the other eyes as mine see it.” -- Michelangelo


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