# Constant Crashing VEPro7 with Logic Pro (18 crashes today)



## gst98 (Jan 31, 2020)

I bought VEPro7 2 weeks ago and it has been so unstable that it is pretty much unusable. If anyone could help me it would be greatly appreciate because I need to know before the 30 days return policy if I want to keep the software. Sorry for the block of text, but just want to make sore I’m saying everything.

I’ve been in contact since day one with the VSL support, but although they reply every couple of days (and are very nice), they haven’t been able to help me other than accept my crash reports. No pro-active pointers on how to improve.

On a good day, VEPro crashes every 30 mins to 45 mins, however it can be after just 5 minutes of use too. One day I had 15 crashes, and the only reason it was 15 was because I couldn’t bring myself to open it for a 16th time. 



There are several crashes I’m having - I’m aware that some of the crashes are caused by Kontakt 6, and it’s unfair to blame VSL for that, however Kontakt seems to crash way more in Vienna than when its just loaded into Logic. (kontakt inside logic only ever crashes if its loading something, not ever when its close and I'm triggering samples - and that almost never happens anyway)

The second type is it crashes when I’m triggering sounds into it. This is the worst one and it could happen at any time.

The third is that it never lasts longer than 45 minutes. Even If nothing its being trigged inside VEPro (or even if I've gone to get a drink), it just gives up after said time. Usually the crash reports indicate that it runs out of threads. Or so VSL have told me.

But that’s not it! 50% of the time, when I try to load up Vienna again, it just will get stuck half way and have to be force quit. Sometimes it is nice and just crashes during loading so I don’t have to quit it myself!





I’m running this all inside a single system: a 2020 MacBook Pro 16-inch [32GB RAM running off 2TB internal SSD, 8-core i9) with logic 10.4.8. This of course means I’m forced to run macOS Catalina. VSL have assured me that Catalina is not a problem, but I’m not ready to dismiss it yet. 
From research on VI Control, I’m running VEPro with 1 Kontakt instance per Vienna Instance. Each instance of Kontakt is for an individual instrument (I.e. Violins 1, which may have 3 or 4 articulations built in). There are 85 instances of Vienna and therefore 85 instances of Kontakt 6. I gathered from many threads that this was the most efficient way of running VEPro and Logic, unlike Cubase.

I have tried several different versions of Kontakt 6 to make sure it wasn’t a bad release. Maybe Kontakt 5 would be more stable, but certain libs need K6. I have tried running it in single thread mode, 8 thread mode and then 16 thread mode. No difference. 

VEPro is running at 2 threads per instance. The latest version. When it IS working, a full template of 250 tracks uses 40% CPU during playback of an average project. I don’t think it’s because the laptop is being pushed too hard. Most things are purged and are loading in real time off the SSD, but I have tried with them all loaded in too. 
I’ve also tried with really small templates of just a full set of strings and drums and brass so it doesn't seem liek its due to large templates.

I’m fully aware of how many people swear by this software and how well it runs for them, and I know there is no way it would be so widely used if this was normal for most people. 


I’ll include some crashes. Thanks so much for any help or advice you can give me. 


P.s. I must have been brave today becuase I just checked and have had 18 crashes today so far.

————————————————————————————————————————————————
Crashed Thread: 1037

Exception Type: EXC_BAD_INSTRUCTION (SIGILL)
Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000001, 0x0000000000000000
Exception Note: EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY

Termination Signal: Illegal instruction: 4
Termination Reason: Namespace SIGNAL, Code 0x4
Terminating Process: exc handler [5030]

Application Specific Information:
BUG IN CLIENT OF LIBPTHREAD: Unable to allocate thread port, possible port leak
————————————————————————————————————————————————
Crashed Thread: 6 com.apple.NSEventThread

Exception Type: EXC_BAD_INSTRUCTION (SIGILL)
Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000001, 0x0000000000000000
Exception Note: EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY

Termination Signal: Illegal instruction: 4
Termination Reason: Namespace SIGNAL, Code 0x4
Terminating Process: exc handler [4555]
————————————————————————————————————————————————
Crashed Thread: 47 bg jobs

Exception Type: EXC_CRASH (SIGABRT)
Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000000, 0x0000000000000000
Exception Note: EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY

Application Specific Information:
abort() called
Vienna Ensemble Pro(11196,0x700003f58000) malloc: *** error for object 0x600167bfc240: pointer being freed was not allocated
————————————————————————————————————————————————
Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Exception Type: EXC_CRASH (SIGABRT)
Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000000, 0x0000000000000000
Exception Note: EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY

Application Specific Information:
abort() called
Vienna Ensemble Pro(11497,0x10f84adc0) malloc: *** error for object 0x600124e43500: pointer being freed was not allocated
————————————————————————————————————————————————
Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000100000014
Exception Note: EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY

Termination Signal: Segmentation fault: 11
Termination Reason: Namespace SIGNAL, Code 0xb
Terminating Process: exc handler [1366]
————————————————————————————————————————————————


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## Kent (Aug 24, 2020)

Just wondering—did you ever get this resolved?


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## gst98 (Aug 24, 2020)

No, afraid not. Trouble is, using it to maximise the quantity of tracks when using logic then results in huge numbers of threads. VSL support were really helpful but it ended up with them saying that if I run it like this the number of threads will crash VEPro.

In the end I just started using a disabled template in Logic. I'm getting about 30-40% more performance now becuase of how efficient logic is. And much fewer crashes. For whatever reason the number of threads logic creates doing the same thing is far fewer, or that it desn't crash under the number of threads.

Native instruments stopped helping me because I wasnt comfortable with them running a scan of my computer. Never had worse support than them.


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## Kent (Aug 24, 2020)

@Dewdman42 have you seen this?


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## Kent (Aug 24, 2020)

@gst98 I'm sorry to hear that. That sort of behavior can be very frustrating.

Have you tried to make things granular and start testing from a blank Logic project? Then working up toward adding various instruments natively in Logic? Then, finally, starting to add in VEP instances and connections?

At what point do the troubles start to emerge?


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## gst98 (Aug 24, 2020)

kmaster said:


> @gst98 I'm sorry to hear that. That sort of behavior can be very frustrating.
> 
> Have you tried to make things granular and start testing from a blank Logic project? Then working up toward adding various instruments natively in Logic? Then, finally, starting to add in VEP instances and connections?
> 
> At what point do the troubles start to emerge?



Yeah I tried building smaller templates that worked much better. It seemed to be purely down to thread count so If I didn't have too many tracks it worked okay. 

It was a while ago, but I do seem to remember having a problem with even the samller templates the thread count got too high.

I think if I ran it with multiple midi ports then that would lower the thread count, but from all I've heard, Logic isn't very happy with this method and it doesnt run as smoothly.


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## Kent (Aug 24, 2020)

gst98 said:


> Yeah I tried building smaller templates that worked much better. It seemed to be purely down to thread count so If I didn't have too many tracks it worked okay.
> 
> It was a while ago, but I do seem to remember having a problem with even the samller templates the thread count got too high.
> 
> I think if I ran it with multiple midi ports then that would lower the thread count, but from all I've heard, Logic isn't very happy with this method and it doesnt run as smoothly.


I'm almost positive we can solve this issue. Sometimes it's gremlins, or a bad install, or a greedy program somewhere, but most of the time it's down to finding the right settings for your system. Unfortunately, as you've discovered, there is no one-size-fits-all solution...


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 24, 2020)

kmaster said:


> @Dewdman42 have you seen this?



I haven't been having that problem no. Seems like I did have a problem a few months ago about the time people were reporting this and I was able to narrow it down to this, I had a default setting in VePro somehow where by default it would create a new instance with MirPro room tone enabled on a channel. That's all fine and good, but I found that if I didn't have an actual ROOM selected, this would cause problems..I think I was getting noise bursts, not crashes, but I can't remember now. Anyway, I changed my default to not add the room tone by default...and also I make sure to choose a MirPro room right away whenever I create a new VePro instance. But anyway, it has not been crashing on me at all, but I haven't been using it a lot lately either.


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## BrightFutureInc (Nov 1, 2020)

gst98 said:


> I bought VEPro7 2 weeks ago and it has been so unstable that it is pretty much unusable. If anyone could help me it would be greatly appreciate because I need to know before the 30 days return policy if I want to keep the software. Sorry for the block of text, but just want to make sore I’m saying everything.
> 
> I’ve been in contact since day one with the VSL support, but although they reply every couple of days (and are very nice), they haven’t been able to help me other than accept my crash reports. No pro-active pointers on how to improve.
> 
> ...


Hi. Just joined the forum because im having a similar issue. Im running Live 10.1 and Traktor Pro3.4 on a 2020 Mac 13" 2 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5 16gbRAM On Catalina 10.5.7. Live started crashing pretty soon after getting my new MacBook, however, ive upgraded hardware, got a brand new Live licence, interface, the works. I hadn't narrowed down where this was coming from, but as soon a is saw this, one thing stood out. Live isn't crashing much as Logic was for you, but I had only made a Live default project template for the v first time on my new system. I shared a 9 licence with a friend of mine on my last system, and the we worked with a different set up for each project. Now I have A set up of hardware instruments and controllers that I'll require for every project, so ive just saved my default as a project, and set the back to the Standard Live default. If the issue is caused by something as ridiculously simple as setting a custom default template, it wouldn't surprise me. I started out on a G4 PowerMac tower running OS9.1 with Logic back in 2000. Before apple bought Emagic. And I had used Mac studio setups prior to that all through the 90's. Each rock solid never issues 100% of the time Then OSX came along, and There has been stupid bugs like this in every system of mine since on every new version of Mac OS and every set up. Its an infuriating, never ending, and always baffling ass pain that Apple have never fixed these niggling bugs. Thing is, they ARE always niggling, and the hardest part is isolating the cause, and once you do, there's a simple workaround that resolves the issue. And TBH, I think they do it intentionally. God knows why, but they never come to the table 100% with their major software partners. However, its a small price to pay to get the rock solid reliability of MacOS. Id never trust a PC for to run production environment. I need a system that runs solid all; the time every time so I can do my work. I don't have time to be an IT analyst on the side. Because once these this are troubleshot and resolved, every one of those systems I mentioned from 00-20 have run like tanks with no issues for an average of 5 years give or take...

Anyway, ill keep you posted about if its fixed my issue....


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## BrightFutureInc (Nov 1, 2020)

BTW, just on your issue regarding Catalina, I have a lot of software and have always only upgraded the os once the communities give the all clear to run what we all rely on. Catalina was given the all clear quite a while ago. This issue, despite being a Catalina specific issue, appears to be one of those ones Apple just doesn't bother addressing because they have a reliable workaround to resolve it without coding an update. However I am extremely concerned about big sur, and its one of the main reasons Ive upgraded now. It is the first OS11. It is a complete overhaul. I'll be staying far away from it for a lot longer.....


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## Dewdman42 (Nov 1, 2020)

I didn't know they are calling it OS11, that is interesting. PTSD from the transition to OSX is already hitting me as we speak. i guess it is because its the first version that will have all the ARM stuff... 

Anyway, I think generally you should not upgrade to any version of MacOS until the situation comes up that there is some new feature or compatibility that you must upgrade in order to have...otherwise...avoid it. Apple tends to create new features..and new problems along with it. If what you have now is stable, does what you need...then leave it alone! 

When you need a new feature that is only possible with a MacOS update..then consider first whether you will lose any functionality of your existing stuff by updating MacOS and weigh the pros/cons... willing to lose some feature in order to get the new feature. if so.., and everything else is known to work with the new version..then go for it.

People tend to make MacOs updates based on emotional response and need to have the latest warm and fuzzy thing from Apple. Unfortunately Apple has a habit of very very poor backwards compatibility in their updates..so I say, proceed with caution. wait as long as possible before updating. When you do, make sure everything you use will still be working or be aware of what you will lose so that you can consciously let it go in order to get whatever new wiz bang feature that the CEO of Apple made you think you need when he did his speech from the Apple headquarters.

Let other people sweat it out before upgrading and the coast is absolutely clear.


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## BrightFutureInc (Nov 1, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> I didn't know they are calling it OS11, that is interesting. PTSD from the transition to OSX is already hitting me as we speak. i guess it is because its the first version that will have all the ARM stuff...
> 
> Anyway, I think generally you should not upgrade to any version of MacOS until the situation comes up that there is some new feature or compatibility that you must upgrade in order to have...otherwise...avoid it. Apple tends to create new features..and new problems along with it. If what you have now is stable, does what you need...then leave it alone!
> 
> ...


100% agree with your sentiments. And still had the same attitude pre Jobs when I was, not a fanboi so much as belief and faith in the quality of both the OS and the hardware. Ive been using Macs since 1990 when my high school built new computer labs decked out with Macs, so they networked them across the entire school. We were Mac exclusive. Which was rare back then. So I learned the concept of html om hypercard. and ive never owned a PC. Which is weird cuz I worked as an IT analyst for the Govt for 10 years and worked in system server networking and have certs in SAP GUI. which has only made me hate PC;s more

That said, ive never put apple on a pedestal, and having so many years dealing with all the pros and cons of apple over that time, I can remember more failures and mistakes than seeing their legacy as iPod, iPhone wold domination. Ive had the same attitude as yourself for a long time.

Unfortunately, its come to the stage where OS X is still the best OS, but the hardware sucks. And unless you're prepared to look into building a Facintosh, OS users have no choice but to spend ridiculously overpriced shit.


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## BrightFutureInc (Nov 1, 2020)

BrightFutureInc said:


> 100% agree with your sentiments. And still had the same attitude pre Jobs when I was, not a fanboi so much as belief and faith in the quality of both the OS and the hardware. Ive been using Macs since 1990 when my high school built new computer labs decked out with Macs, so they networked them across the entire school. We were Mac exclusive. Which was rare back then. So I learned the concept of html om hypercard. and ive never owned a PC. Which is weird cuz I worked as an IT analyst for the Govt for 10 years and worked in system server networking and have certs in SAP GUI. which has only made me hate PC;s more
> 
> That said, ive never put apple on a pedestal, and having so many years dealing with all the pros and cons of apple over that time, I can remember more failures and mistakes than seeing their legacy as iPod, iPhone wold domination. Ive had the same attitude as yourself for a long time.
> 
> Unfortunately, its come to the stage where OS X is still the best OS, but the hardware sucks. And unless you're prepared to look into building a Facintosh, OS users have no choice but to spend ridiculously overpriced shit.


Speaking of shit. Live crashed for the second time while typing that. I only started looking into the issue today. This was my first piece of troubleshooting. So, the issue lies somewhere else. Im gonna research it more thoroughly tomorrow. Ill let you know what I find


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## BrightFutureInc (Nov 1, 2020)

Can you give me an idea of your set up hardware wise? Interface, controllers, etc?


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## BrightFutureInc (Nov 1, 2020)

BrightFutureInc said:


> Can you give me an idea of your set up hardware wise? Interface, controllers, etc?


Just want to compare your rig to mine across hardware and software, so if theres any other significant software yore using, let me know. I know a lot of good people across a bunch of communities and personally for Mac, hardware, production, software, setups and everything in between. Only reason this was my first point of call is cuz having a custom project default is the only thing about my set up that ive never done on any of my previous ones, and you thought it may have been yours. So, its kinda good you have the issue with logic, cuz I can already rule out Live being the problem and it may be a DAW problem is general, so if I have an idea of yr entire setup, it'll hopefully be a quicker process and benefit both of us sooner...


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## BrightFutureInc (Nov 1, 2020)

BrightFutureInc said:


> Just want to compare your rig to mine across hardware and software, so if theres any other significant software yore using, let me know. I know a lot of good people across a bunch of communities and personally for Mac, hardware, production, software, setups and everything in between. Only reason this was my first point of call is cuz having a custom project default is the only thing about my set up that ive never done on any of my previous ones, and you thought it may have been yours. So, its kinda good you have the issue with logic, cuz I can already rule out Live being the problem and it may be a DAW problem is general, so if I have an idea of yr entire setup, it'll hopefully be a quicker process and benefit both of us sooner...


And sorry if you've already mentioned everything your using, im just doing several things at once and it'll save me going back through the whole thread...


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## BrightFutureInc (Nov 1, 2020)

kmaster said:


> I'm almost positive we can solve this issue. Sometimes it's gremlins, or a bad install, or a greedy program somewhere, but most of the time it's down to finding the right settings for your system. Unfortunately, as you've discovered, there is no one-size-fits-all solution...


Hey. Im new to this forum, so thought my past few replies was to the OP, but, I agree. Its gonna have a workaround im sure. Im using Live. Wont go into my rig, but im on the case. Im going to deep dive on this in the morning. Ill let you know what I find...


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