# Ark 2 - extreme noise



## Nils Neumann (Dec 22, 2016)

Just finished downloading Ark 2, and right now I'm extremely disappointed.
Many patches have a huge noise build in, you can hear the players moving and so on. Here is a quick example with the high strings.



This is not playable out of the box. Is this a installing problem? Or did I get a wrong version for download? Anyone experienced something smilliar?
Many thanks in advance for your help!


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## samy (Dec 22, 2016)

I posted this in the Commercial Ark 2 thread, but maybe it makes more sense to add this here 

Just a quick question guys. I downloaded and installed it. Everything worked fine (the download was really quick).
I played around with the patches and noticed a really strange thing with the three string patches.
1) There seems to be kind of an odd background noise when you release the keys and the samples fade out. Almost like OT sampled the room with some background noises like the players moving on a chair, kind of breathing or putting down the instrument. I hear that on several sounds on all of the three string patches. I found out that in a few string patches is a "Purge Release" button, it seems that it will cut away some of the release noises and shortens the sample, but I still noticed some kind of noise in the samples. Not sure if this is intended. If you play several sounds and blend them, for me this noisy release sound is really annoying because it makes the whole sound unclean with these little crackles (in the example the release noise from 0:55 plays into the new note of 0:56). (See example 1)
2) And about noise. It somehow seems the overall noise level of the string recordings is much higher. I compared it to Ark 1 and to my ears, it sounds that there is so much more noise in the samples. The Ark 1 strings are so crisp and clean, I actually directly noticed that when I first played the Ark 2 patches. Maybe this is because of the lower volumes of the recordings, but still, I am not sure if this has to be this way?! I attach a file (example 2) with a comparison to the string patch in Ark 1. (The first is Ark2, the second Ark 1).
3) I also noticed several smaller crackles in some of the string patches. I just attach one example from the low legato patch. Also the release noise is so strange again 0:16-0:20 (See example 3)
4) In the Room Piano I can also hear kind of crackles (check out example 4 at second 3-4 mainly on the left side). And the G2 has kind of a different attack sound compared to the rest. I noticed that the first time I played the patch. Kind of like a double triggered sound. It sounds like a played it twice, but I just played it once, I promise  (Example 4 and 4-2).

I made five quick examples and attach them here.

Am I just to picky about that stuff? I have been mixing and recording music for a several years now, so my ears got better to hear these kind of noisy detailed sounds. I know there is always kind of noise and also background noise from instruments and the mechanics of the instruments, musicians and so on. But compared to Ark 1 there is a hugh difference in my opinion which makes me a pretty sad (I especially wanted to use Ark 2 for the soft and quiet parts but with that noise and crackles I don`t know how). I don`t care if there is some noise in a big piece with different string patches layered, but I thought this was a library for a deep and detailed sound. Just by playing through it for an hour I found these things that make me quiet disappointed.

The brass and choir patches sounded really great though. Also the percussions sounds good when I played through it the first time.
So what do you think? I love OT and the stuff they do and maybe it is just me. I don`t want to say anything bad about Ark 2, just mention what I noticed. But I don`t think I can use these patches with this sound.

[AUDIOPLUS=http://vi-control.net/community/attachments/1-release-noise-mp3.6936/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=http://vi-control.net/community/attachments/2-overall-noise-mp3.6937/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=http://vi-control.net/community/attachments/3-crackles-low-mp3.6938/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=http://vi-control.net/community/attachments/4-piano-mp3.6940/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=http://vi-control.net/community/attachments/4-2-piano-mp3.6941/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## mac (Dec 22, 2016)

There is a hell of a lot of noise on the tails, but I kinda like it. Gives it a Tron Legacy vibe! I doubt it'll be such a problem once it's in the mix.


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## dcoscina (Dec 22, 2016)

Yes I also noticed the noise and weird ambient noises in the releases- there's also some of this in the harp sustain patch. No doubt a revision will come out to address some of this stuff. Still sounds fabulous to me overall however.


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## zeng (Dec 22, 2016)

I don't have Ark 2 yet but don't these background noises add realism?


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## Rodney Money (Dec 22, 2016)

Ah, that's not noise, that's just the samples speaking to you, lol. Check out the piccolo from BWW. https://app.box.com/s/12ggmzkvyh78ugrt20ubu8ees35p655l


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## Nils Neumann (Dec 22, 2016)

zeng said:


> I don't have Ark 2 yet but don't these background noises add realism?


not if you have huge noise build up in for example fast staccato phrases
I like noise like that on 1 of 4 RR but not on every sample.


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## desert (Dec 22, 2016)

Great spotting, I'm sure OT will fix this.

P.s Those pianos sound amazing (ignoring the noise)


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## Vastman (Dec 22, 2016)

No humans allowed, say the machines!
Must stamp out all evidence of real human beings!
All that noise once called living... Erase it! RIGHT NOW!
Although we're still creatures please don't let it show,
We're becoming machines! Don't spoil our new glow!

Just sayin...not necessarily disagreeing...
Which is kinda scary to me... Just sayin...


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## samy (Dec 22, 2016)

Well, I mean some sort of realism is okay. But this kind of noise level is really too much. Check out the comparison I posted between Ark 1 and Ark 2 (example 2) above.
Also these noise build ups that Nils mentioned, they are in a lot of patches and this wasn`t in Ark 1 at all.
And we all know noise can be really cool if used subtle. But I think there is a point where it is hard to ignore the noise because it is too present, and for me this is the case.
Also the piano note that is clearly sampled wrong (try to play that piano and everytime you hit that G2 you think wtf).
And another thing. The Women Choir Sustain patch, when you play a D4 there is kind of a crackle about half a second after you trigger it. (See attached) If I use this choir in a quiet piece and give it a melodic line, this will definitely be heared.

[AUDIOPLUS=http://vi-control.net/community/attachments/choir-mp3.6943/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## procreative (Dec 22, 2016)

I am sure they will do what they can to improve the noise if possible, however with lower dynamics this is always going to be a trade off. I suspect its less of a problem with the close mics as low dynamics means lower signal levels.

CineWinds had terrible noise problems on release, but the fix involved denoising which also impacts the natural tails and the sound.


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## procreative (Dec 22, 2016)

samy said:


> And another thing. The Women Choir Sustain patch, when you play a D4 there is kind of a crackle about half a second after you trigger it. (See attached) If I use this choir in a quiet piece and give it a melodic line, this will definitely be heared.



To me that sounds like one of the singers moving. Unless they have another take the only thing they could do is repitch another note to replace it.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 22, 2016)

zeng said:


> I don't have Ark 2 yet but don't these background noises add realism?



I thought that kind of thing was a plus. I get that from some of my EW samples. Absolutely no noise is when things start sounding too synthy/fake (don't hate me, folks, but some of the Spitfire samples can come across that way...keep in mind I'm usually their biggest fan).

There's _noise_ during a live performance.

That said, and it bears repeating ad infinitum: if it doesn't suit your music then sure, it's bad.


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## samy (Dec 22, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> I thought that kind of thing was a plus. I get that from some of my EW samples. Absolutely no noise is when things start sounding too synthy/fake (don't hate me, folks, but some of the Spitfire samples can come across that way...keep in mind I'm usually their biggest fan).
> 
> There's _noise_ during a live performance.
> 
> That said, and it bears repeating ad infinitum: if it doesn't suit your music then sure, it's bad.



Yes, I agree. Noise is good in some cases. But this just so much noise that it sounds like a recording with a really cheap mic or bad processing. I can`t really use that for what I have in mind to be honest.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 22, 2016)

samy said:


> Yes, I agree. Noise is good in some cases. But this just so much noise that it sounds like a recording with a really cheap mic or bad processing. I can`t really use that for what I have in mind to be honest.



WOW, that DOESN'T sound good, especially for the price.


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## samy (Dec 22, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> WOW, that DOESN'T sound good, especially for the price.



Yes, I am bit disappointed right now. I Have a new project where I definitely planned on using it, but not sure if that will work :/. I love Ark 1 and OT. When I played Ark 1 the first time I was like "Oh..wtf! Amazing!"
Yesterday I reinstalled Kontakt, changed my interfaces, connected 3 different headphones (an not the cheap ones) until I realized it were the actual samples and the library that sounded like this. I directly thought "..where is this noise coming from, this can`t be right...".
Well maybe it is just me (well I know Nils has the same problem). Unfortunately Ark 2 did not give me this magic Ark 1 did :(


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## Vastman (Dec 22, 2016)

First of all... This is NOT noise in the technical sense.. And Ark 1 was a loud high dynamic library which masks real sounds made by players... 

I have to say, earlier when listening to these tracks IN ISOLATION, thru my krk cans at high volume I could.make out human sounds, some more than others. Now, on my nexus 6P via Plantronics bt, not at all. 

Every library is going to have some real flaws... Identify them so OT can take a look... Although a number of these don't bother me at all! 

OT could sanitize every sample... Takes loads of time but they could... Sure it could b automated I imagine. Finding the happy realizem balance within a billion samples... Is a judgement... And will always be a bad call to some one. I doubt most of this was overlooked.


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## StatKsn (Dec 22, 2016)

I really LOVE that noise.

Edit: I think the player/ambience noise is apparent not because they used a cheap mic or a bad signal path, but because instruments are played quiet and samples are pumped up to compensate the gain - it does sound like the "hidden" noise coming out when you compress the pluck out of actual orchestral recordings. Could definitely be too much when a big chord is hit.


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## Vastman (Dec 22, 2016)

"Sounds like a recording with a really cheap mic"
That statement is ridiculous... And wrong... You're ranting. I use and love my eqitek e100s mic which has the lowest noise floor in its class... It picks up lots of sounds... It is very good. 

"bad processing "? Maybe limited... But not bad... The sound of this library is stunning. This is a judgements call... To leave room sounds in to an amount you don't agrees with... At least I'll assume this is the case until we hear from OT. I could just as easily surmise that they left the library more "raw" to capture the sense of the underworld... BRAVO!

Stuff the ranting, raise the issues that concern you and see what OT says... You're entitled to ur opinion of the level of room sounds but it's important to decern intent rather than blather about cheap mics and sloppy processing...I have no PROBLEM with room noise as I poetically stated earlier. Maybe they made this library for me not you!

Anything viewed under a microscope that is different than you'd like stands out. There are flaws and there are judgements calls... Especially in a library this huge.


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## samy (Dec 22, 2016)

Vastman said:


> "Sounds like a recording with a really cheap mic"
> That statement is ridiculous... And wrong... You're ranting. I use and love my eqitek e100s mic which has the lowest noise floor in its class... It picks up lots of sounds... It is very good.



I did not say it was a cheap recording or bad processing. I just wanted to state that in my subjective perception with all that noise, one could assume that it sounds like one. It was just a comparisson to say that I am suprised by all this noise in the recordings and the different crackles and background noises.
I know the OT guys know what they are doing and they use high quality stuff. Just wanted to hear your opinions. But okay, I shut up now (Just thought there might be a few things that can be improved. Not sure what you think about that G with the piano that is triggered twice, interesting to see how one can compose a song with that).


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## procreative (Dec 22, 2016)

Like I said earlier, if you record low dynamics you will hear more ambient noise, it unavoidable. If you play low dynamic recordings loud you will notice this noise more.

You cannot compare MA1 and MA2 for noise as MA1 was played at high dynamics.

There may be things OT can do to reduce the perceived noise. But what will be the cost? Reduced realism?

I think those that have grown up in the digital era are spoiled, hiss, noise and dropouts were the mainstay of analogue recording and if you soloed any multitrack you would hear hiss from amps etc. We would noise gate amps to minimise, but then you would hear the cutoff when the noise gate threshold kicked in, so we often did edits and clean ups over a beat to mask it.

Its not fantastic, but its not unusable used as what it is intended, as low dynamic material ie lower volume.


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## dcoscina (Dec 22, 2016)

I also don't mind a little noise here and there because I agree it adds realism. If it's only at a certain velocity setting then it will sound random and organic.

I'm not too bothered to be honest. It's a great library and the little niggles we have will most likely be addressed in an update so it's all good.


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## tomaslobosk (Dec 22, 2016)

It's a ppp library for god's sake, that level of noise is absolutely normal and unavoidable, specially if recording on a hall.
I just hate when developers de-noise their samples, they sound awful and washed out.
This has been always an issue on heavy polyphonic instruments, like pianos, harps, and stuff... and yes, there are script-level solutions for those.

EDIT: BTW, could someone please upload some unprocessed legato demos of women and basso profundo choirs?, I'm not quite happy with the ones I heard from the OT walkthrough.


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## Saxer (Dec 22, 2016)

The malediction of sample world.
In a conventional orchestra session this kind of noise is absolutely normal. It appears in every microphone. Half of repeated live recordings are done because of weak timing or disturbing noise. You'll never get a recording completely without it. But unlike a sample library it's never the same twice.
In mockups you just have to mask the noise by musical action or just cut it out. There's no way around. Your turn.


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## erica-grace (Dec 22, 2016)

This noise is normal, and is present in A LOT of libraries. Have a listen to Tundra.

There is really very little you can do there, save for some serious NR, which will kill the original samples. Not what we want to see happen. Therefore, don't xpect OT to do too much - is anything - here.

The other thing is that this type of noise absolutely does NOT add realism. Not whan you have several samples playing at once.


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## jules (Dec 22, 2016)

StatKsn said:


> I really LOVE that noise.


+1. Too much denoising is just a pain in the ass. By the way ark 2 is the QUIET twin, so noise is part of the sound.


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## StatKsn (Dec 22, 2016)

I think Capsule allows you to disable certain RR (so is Spitfire) it might help a bit for some cases - i.e. loading multiple instances and selectively use a sample with less noise or just a different noise. I don't really think you can cut out the release and add reverb or something without sounding strange when it comes to gain compensated ppp sample.


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## benmrx (Dec 22, 2016)

Whenever this issue pops up, I always have to wonder....., did the demos have too much noise? Too much noise in the patch walk-thru? Inevitably Ark2 will have more noise than Ark1. That's just the way microphones work. Keeping in mind that playing soft dynamics in a big room will exploit the noise issue, just like playing loud will exploit the size of the room.


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## rottoy (Dec 22, 2016)

The title of this thread really should be changed. EXTREME noise levels?
I'm all for accepting the subjective opinions that us homo sapiens have all been cursed / blessed with, but really? As others have already stated, this is a ppp library and with that comes noise floor, player noises and other colours not as easily perceived in other libraries.

Get over it.


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## NoamL (Dec 22, 2016)

The quality of the noise is not bad, but the levels seem out of whack especially in @samy's examples. There is a perceptible "rise" in the level over time, as if the noise is crossfaded with the note itself. It makes me wonder if they (either samy or OT!) applied some kind of compression or volume ride to the samples to bring out the tails, which would also bring out the noise.

This library is objectively at a higher dynamic level than Tundra (not really _ppp)_ and in a dryer hall so I don't see why it has as much or more noise than Tundra! I guess more players being recorded is a factor too?

Noise doesn't add realism to samples because it isn't controllable. Having a chair creak _every_ time the violins play a particular note is not a great idea. Also the noise fades out with the release tail of a sample, so you lack noise during rests. I like adding noise to my mockups but I prefer doing it with a room tone.

TBH, I'm kind of disappointed that Ark 2 came out at all as it seems OT is moving towards Spitfire's "We released that, what's next?" philosophy. There are numerous problems and even glitches with Berlin Brass which still need fixing.

Unfortunately with samples being samples, there is not much a developer can do to fix samplesets without distorting the sound or paying the players a fortune to come back and re-record. I do not think I will take up OT on any more preorder offers, instead I'll wait to hear what other people think.


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## rottoy (Dec 22, 2016)

Balefire said:


> Damn, that first one is really bad.


 Missed that example. Yeah, that's kind of pushing it.


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## Gabriel Oliveira (Dec 22, 2016)

NoamL said:


> I guess more players being recorded is a factor too?



more players = more volume = less noise floor


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## MrCambiata (Dec 22, 2016)

I heard that noise in the walkthrough and decided not to buy, although the samples do sound amazing. I know it will bother me but each his own..


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## benmrx (Dec 22, 2016)

Gabriel Oliveira said:


> more players = more volume = less noise floor


Less noise floor, yes..., more chance of hearing chair squeaks, player noise, 'humans', .....also yes.


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## Vastman (Dec 22, 2016)

iZotope's RX can delete these noises without impacting the musical elements of samples...It is very good at this sort of thing... so it is eminently doable if that is requested by enough folks. Indeed, I'm sure it's used quite frequently for such purposes...

FWIW, it DOES seem as if there is some level bumps in the tails (companding?)which are ultimately released/soft gated/DSed out...imo very poorly in some of the samples given... when viewed in isolation...

I would NOT fix this stuff in scripting... it is better to tame some of this at the sample level... for any "EXTREEME" noise in tails.

Personally, it doesn't bother me for the reasons others mentioned and I don't do the stuff this might be a bother about... I can see a few "extreemes" could easily be re-tweaked... it just takes time...and ultimately, in the mix, it becomes a bit of subliminal reality...


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## Strezov (Dec 22, 2016)

Hey guys,

I decided to chime into the discussion to let you know how I feel about this sample library. I have to point out in advance that I was one of the demo writers for Ark 2 and made this demo - 

I will start a bit in advance - a couple years ago when I, still student, saved every penny I had and bought everything there was at that time of East West. Hollywood strings, brass, percussion - I had it all! However there was something bothering me during the entire period of me using those instruments (and that was not PLAY!). The first library outside of East West I got was ERA by Tari. Then I understood that it is the tiny imperfections that make a library great - not the tons of processing afterwards. We are all musicians and partially mixing/mastering engineers - when you're working on a master (or even mix with a limiter at the master channel) and you have a crushing limiter on top do your ears get tired more quickly? At least mine do. So imagine what compression, de-noising, tuning, EQ-ing do to your creative process. Just my humble opinion.

Anyway, when I worked at the demo I *never *for once stopped to think about the noises and noise build-up. I even put some UAD Manley massive passive high frequencies on the strings to get more definition in the 'staccato' passage. You also have an option in the engine to decrease the release tails if you want to.
The most important thing for me is that the actual content of the library just makes you fly. My personal opinion is that this is far superior than Metropolis Ark 1. Here's why I think this - nowadays basically everyone goes for loud and epic (yes, yes, guilty as charged!). But crushing and distorting sounds and reversing them is much easier than doing something soft and gentle. Ark 1 has fabulous sounds (I personally adore the Cimbassi) but they are in my humble opinion part of a sonic trend that has grown very commercial the past 10 or so years. Yet Ark 2 offers something fresh and unique, something that actually *inspires *you to write music! My main job is writing music for a living and I can't stress enough how painful it is to be in a dark hole, depressed, with countless deadlines ticking over your neck and NOT being able to do anything apart from staring at the blank Cubase window. 

I have to hand it out to Hendrik and his team that they managed to just capture that - liveliness and inspiration within the samples themselves. The combinations are unheard of (OK, apart from strings - we don't have contrabass violins ) and would provide a fresh look on your personal sound. 

And with Capsule you have tons of possibilities in front of you to edit and tweak the samples themselves. Not to mention that you have quite a lot of microphone positions as well! 

This post became a bit bigger than I first anticipated it to be so excuse me for that. I wish you festive and happy holidays - and may all of you surprise yourselves with the music you'll write!

-George


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## novaburst (Dec 22, 2016)

NoamL said:


> Unfortunately with samples being samples, there is not much a developer can do to fix samplesets without distorting the sound or paying the players a fortune to come back and re-record.



Well there is something they can do they can make sure it's done correctly in the first instance do a few checks and redo it if it is not sounding good, I think it's called something like quality control.

With some developers they will get away with it becuase of some crazy deal or cheap price, but the higher you get in the food chain the more users will expect from you.

So I think I would expect first class sampling the only noise I think I would want to hear is the bow, the string, and the note.

Nothing more.


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## zolhof (Dec 22, 2016)

Strezov said:


> This post became a bit bigger than I first anticipated it to be so excuse me for that. I wish you festive and happy holidays - and may all of you surprise yourselves with the music you'll write!



I'm still recovering from the Black Friday massacre and I'm glad I didn't listen to your demo until now... I wouldn't be able to resist the pre-order temptation  Awesome piece! Happy holidays!


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## Mike Fox (Dec 22, 2016)

I don't own Ark 2, so I may not be at liberty to chime in, but I will say this...

I can't stand any kind of hiss or extra noise in samples. I find it incredibly distracting. I understand how minor imperfections can bring about "character", and "realism", but honestly, that should be achieved through the sample quality itself, and player performance, not by hiss, random room noise or odd imperfections. Obviously, some people love that stuff. At the end of the day I don't want a "live" sound. I want a clean, and polished studio sound, and I don't think that's too much to ask for when I'm paying top dollar. Some libraries are meant to sound live, and I get that, but they're not for me...most of the time.


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## rottoy (Dec 22, 2016)

mikefox789 said:


> I don't own Ark 2, so I may not be at liberty to chime in, but I will say this...
> 
> I can't stand any kind of hiss or extra noise in samples. I find it incredibly distracting. I understand how minor imperfections can bring about "character", and "realism", but honestly, that should be achieved through the sample quality itself, and player performance, not by hiss, random room noise or odd imperfections. Obviously, some people love that stuff. At the end of the day I don't want a "live" sound. I want a clean, and polished studio sound, and I don't think that's too much to ask for when I'm paying top dollar. Some libraries are meant to sound live, and I get that, but they're not for me...most of the time.


Do you have an example of a "clean polished studio sound" library to clarify your point?


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## C-Wave (Dec 22, 2016)

rottoy said:


> Do you have an example of a "clean polished studio sound" library to clarify your point?


VSL.. PERIOD.


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## samy (Dec 22, 2016)

mikefox789 said:


> I don't own Ark 2, so I may not be at liberty to chime in, but I will say this...
> 
> I can't stand any kind of hiss or extra noise in samples. I find it incredibly distracting. I understand how minor imperfections can bring about "character", and "realism", but honestly, that should be achieved through the sample quality itself, and player performance, not by hiss, random room noise or odd imperfections. Obviously, some people love that stuff. At the end of the day I don't want a "live" sound. I want a clean, and polished studio sound, and I don't think that's too much to ask for when I'm paying top dollar. Some libraries are meant to sound live, and I get that, but they're not for me...most of the time.



This is exactly why I am disappointed. I did not know that Ark 2 has this raw and kind of "live" sound (that a lot of people here seem to love though). I like if one can hear that it is still played by humans, and if there are some rr that are a bit more noisy or different okay. But not a noisy reverb tail on every patch or these strange crackles or noises from the recording space in the samples itself. Of course one can say, that nobody can hear the noise later if you layer different instruments. But the problem is, I can`t control the noise. I just have to hope it works and this is what bothers me.


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## Rodney Money (Dec 22, 2016)

C-Wave said:


> VSL.. PERIOD.


I was getting ready to say that, lol.


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## rottoy (Dec 22, 2016)

C-Wave said:


> VSL.. PERIOD.


Touché.


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## C-Wave (Dec 22, 2016)

samy said:


> This is exactly why I am disappointed. I did not know that Ark 2 has this raw and kind of "live" sound (that a lot of people here seem to love though). I like if one can hear that it is still played by humans, and if there are some rr that are a bit more noisy or different okay. But not a noisy reverb tail on every patch or these strange crackles or noises from the recording space in the samples itself. Of course one can say, that nobody can hear the noise later if you layer different instruments. But the problem is, I can`t control the noise. I just have to hope it works and this is what bothers me.


Wrote a long complaint then decided it's not going to be productive.. long story short: imho it's not about the noise, it's about quality control! Imagine this kind of active discussion in any mission critical industry.. words like lawyers and court would start showing up I'm glad we're not in one.. although many people pay really dearly for these libraries.


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## SirKen (Dec 22, 2016)

Is it me or is G4 on the Mid Strings patch has a soft thumping sound in the looped sample?


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## Kony (Dec 22, 2016)

Strezov said:


> I was one of the demo writers for Ark 2 and made this demo


Nice demo!


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## humco (Dec 22, 2016)

Vastman said:


> "Sounds like a recording with a really cheap mic"
> That statement is ridiculous... And wrong... You're ranting. I use and love my eqitek e100s mic which has the lowest noise floor in its class... It picks up lots of sounds... It is very good.
> 
> "bad processing "? Maybe limited... But not bad... The sound of this library is stunning. This is a judgements call... To leave room sounds in to an amount you don't agrees with... At least I'll assume this is the case until we hear from OT. I could just as easily surmise that they left the library more "raw" to capture the sense of the underworld... BRAVO!
> ...




Can't read page 2-3 atm.. but wanted to add that MA1 had some similar issues and it's infuriating but... never really that big a deal. Guitar patches (I didn't like their tone in the first place) are the most easy to recognize, weird noises on certain keys that totally ruin anything you tried to make. I'm away from the pic, but there is one bad key in particular in MA1 that was just garbage, can't remember the patch or the key but I could find it if I had to... don't have to, and won't.

My post is about this: did OT ever update MA1? I'm pretty sure we're all stuck with MA2 as it is now, how many companies actually continually update these products beyond the projectsams out there who are selling 6 year old samples like symphonia 1 as 2016 editions? Does spitfire even heed big reports and release updates? I've seriously never seen it. And through what mechanism do they deliver the updates? You get an email saying "new update" download this patch? I have about 2000$ in spitfire and 1000$ in OT and have never received such an email.

Anyway it's great to point out these problems, but step two is figuring out how to work around them or embrace them, because I doubt we'll see any updates for things unless they're flat out broken.


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## Vastman (Dec 22, 2016)

Strezov said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I decided to chime into the discussion to let you know how I feel about this sample library. I have to point out in advance that I was one of the demo writers for Ark 2 and made this demo -
> 
> ...





WoW! Stunning, amazing, and really wonderful, George....
But all that noise really bummed me out! 

In my ancient life I've come to accept that we all come from different places... Those upset should stop pre-buying till their expectations are confirmed... in this case, it would have cost you another 50e to be cautious... although you would have saved MORE if you'd learned these choices were made and didn't buy in. OR you would have taken the opportunity to weigh the value of this creation and whether you can work around the things you don't like...

We have yet to hear from OT on this... I'm quite sure they are reading every word...I'm equally certain they chose to let it all hang out in this library... whether there was a lapse in QA IDK... Whether they RX the noise/humans (easy these days with izotope's tools) on the samples where this may have gone overboard or not will likely change how some of you preorder. I'm very curious how they respond...

I just keep thinking about every Ark 2 composition I've heard... and keep feeling the need to say, "WoW!"

good night... I apologize for making light of something that REALLY matters to some of you... maybe many of you! But after listening to the Strez... I couldn't resist. And there's no right or wrong here... there's just different strokes for different folks!


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## benmrx (Dec 22, 2016)

Kota said:


> Why would they use the noisy samples in their marketing campaign?


So, you think there's some kind of conspiracy here?? What about the 5 different composers that made demos? Did they have strict orders to not use certain patches???


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## C-Wave (Dec 22, 2016)

Kota said:


> Yeah I can kind of hear it, but it wasn't enough to notice the first time I went through. D3 has a loud "psh" right at the beginning. Do the Mid Strings dynamics seem normal to you?


Which articulation you are talking about ? 
Don't know what you're talking about guys..


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## afterlight82 (Dec 22, 2016)

Would love to hear anybody record a pianissimo library with 10+ bodies in the room and NOT get little noises like that. People have to breathe and playing instruments requires motion which means stage noises are a reality. Unless you're going to clamp everybody in place and surgically pipe air into their lungs via tube silently...c'mon. It's like the people complaining about pedal noise/bumps on very close mic'd piano....


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## NoamL (Dec 22, 2016)

rottoy said:


> Do you have an example of a "clean polished studio sound" library to clarify your point?



CSS.

This is me trying to make the library as noisy as possible: short articulations with lots of space, lowest velocities but amped up to hit the limiter, spot mics only, multiple overdubs... talk about "designed to fail"!



And with all that, it's still pretty damn pristine. Roll off some highs and you're good to go.


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## Strezov (Dec 23, 2016)

benmrx said:


> So, you think there's some kind of conspiracy here?? What about the 5 different composers that made demos? Did they have strict orders to not use certain patches???


I can guarantee that at least I had no such orders. I received a version of the library, opened it up, drank my 6th cup of coffee and began writing... 

Anyway, thanks for the kind words guys - you're waaay too kind. Merry Christmas, I'll probably turn off all my devices for the weekend. (I don't promise though).


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Dec 23, 2016)

Strezov said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> I will start a bit in advance - a couple years ago when I, still student, saved every penny I had and bought everything there was at that time of East West. Hollywood strings, brass, percussion - I had it all! However there was something bothering me during the entire period of me using those instruments (and that was not PLAY!). The first library outside of East West I got was ERA by Tari. Then I understood that it is the tiny imperfections that make a library great - not the tons of processing afterwards.
> ...



I agree with your whole dissertation, George. This one point in particular. I have deleted almost all of my EastWest libs because I found them not too fun to play. Actually more work than fun. Tari's lbs are totally fun, although maybe not perfect in the naysayers eyes. I find Ark 2 to be very inspiring. I looked at the samples being complained about here and I can hear it, but so what is what so. Music is about fun, not perfection. Ark 2 is pure fun, as is your new library, Arva. Nice post. I had to chime in too to agree with you.

"Never surrender your hopes and dreams to the fateful limitations others have placed on their own lives. The vision of your true destiny does not reside within the blinkered outlook of the naysayers and the doom prophets. Judge not by their words, but accept advice based on the evidence of actual results. Do not be surprised should you find a complete absence of anything mystical or miraculous in the manifested reality of those who are so eager to advise you. Friends and family who suffer the lack of abundance, joy, love, fulfillment and prosperity in their own lives really have no business imposing their self-limiting beliefs on your reality experience' Anthon St. Maarten


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## Consona (Dec 23, 2016)

Nils Neumann said:


> Just finished downloading Ark 2, and right now I'm extremely disappointed.
> Many patches have a huge noise build in, you can hear the players moving and so on. Here is a quick example with the high strings.
> 
> 
> ...



For comparison's sake, Cinematic Strings 2, Drums of the Deep or Albion II Loegria have more noise in their samples than what can be heared in your Ark 2 example.


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## Vastman (Dec 23, 2016)

"Never surrender your hopes and dreams to the fateful limitations others have placed on their own lives. The vision of your true destiny does not reside within the blinkered outlook of the naysayers and the doom prophets. Judge not by their words, but accept advice based on the evidence of actual results. Do not be surprised should you find a complete absence of anything mystical or miraculous in the manifested reality of those who are so eager to advise you. Friends and family who suffer the lack of abundance, joy, love, fulfillment and prosperity in their own lives really have no business imposing their self-limiting beliefs on your reality experience' Anthon St. Maarten

My life long journey... It has been challenging, at times but I've mostly been able to look myself in the mirror by living the above mantra...I think this is the most significant statement that has been made in this entire post... I love it. I carry it within my genes and now it'll be an Evernote!

Thank you Speaker...


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## Vastman (Dec 23, 2016)

NoamL said:


> CSS.
> 
> This is me trying to make the library as noisy as possible: short articulations with lots of space, lowest velocities but amped up to hit the limiter, spot mics only, multiple overdubs... talk about "designed to fail"!
> 
> ...




Not to be harsh, but...I don't think this is a comparable test *at all*... it is full of sound, no space between the next hit, no empty "space" to discern artifacts or humans doing what humans do. The FLAWS being touted are single notes, held, in isolation and thus we can jack up the gain enough to pick out the room noise... NOTHING ELSE... To be comparable, you'd have to pick thru the library, looking for them, and use single hits, sustained to show the entire tail (not shorts) with the level of THAT SINGLE NOTE jacked up to normal full orchestra playing level...and held for the entire tail...with NO OTHER competing sounds...

Regardless, either you're bothered by the room noise or you are not (or not enough to find it unacceptable, in the grander scheme of what OT is offering here)...*if it REEEEEEAAALY bugs you, don't buy the library and/or avoid presales in the future if you did buy it...and do better homework first.* If it bugs you a bit but you still find enough to wet your pants, I'm quite sure it will become a totally irrelevant aspect of anything you create with this magical library...

Personally, I would not want the "cleaners" rofl to run OT's show... Technically flawed bits _should be_ addressed but the concept... the overall choices... and what can be created with MA2 is fantastic and I defer to the wisdom of those exploring new territories.

Note... I do apologize for "wet your pants" which some might consider off topic but it's something I nearly did the first time I heard Sascha's composition...


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## sinkd (Dec 23, 2016)

tomaslobosk said:


> It's a ppp library for god's sake


this.


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 23, 2016)

I sent in a track some time ago and it was rejected instantly because of noise. Not sure the noise on this library is that critical because don't have it. But you will soon find out if you're sending in tracks.
Music editors generally don't like extraneous noise, but again, would need to hear some examples where it sounds really obvious.


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## SirKen (Dec 23, 2016)

Just found other thumping sounds for Mid Strings Fast Tremolo patch (TRM-F) on the notes D#3, E3, and F3. They are quite audible if the modwheel is 70% or below. If I play them in succession, I do not need a percussion on the background to keep the ryhthm 

Seems Mid Strings patch has to be carefully exposed and preferably hidden behind other instruments to suppress the noise issues. This nki and the Pianos a3 patch are the most disappointing in the whole library so far. The crackling voice in the sustain patch in Women Choir is disturbing but still workable. Thankfully, the Brass and Winds have been fine so far. They were my main reasons for pre-ordering.

Speaking about pre-ordering, this might probably be my last time pre-ordering from OT unless some of the issues are fixed. That being said, I don't even know how they could go about that since the issues seem to be with the quality control of the samples themselves. I mean, wouldn't it make sense to do another take when the attack of a piano ensemble sounds out of sync?

I hope OT can take a second look at this library once they get their rest after this release.


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## rpaillot (Dec 23, 2016)

C-Wave said:


> VSL.. PERIOD.



Yeah. So clean (and dull sounding) that you need tons of EQs and reverbs processing to bring them a tiny bit of life.


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## humco (Dec 23, 2016)

Does anyone know what kind of updates OT released for ARK 1? I think it's on version 1.1, but I'm curious to see a list if anyone has it. 

I know at some point capsule was updated to 2.5, I have that email and updated my capsule, but I don't see anything in my email history about an update the sample library. The only reason I know the sample library is at version 1.1 is because I reformatted for 2017 and had to redone load all my libraries.


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## C-Wave (Dec 23, 2016)

SirKen said:


> Just found other thumping sounds for Mid Strings Fast Tremolo patch (TRM-F) on the notes D#3, E3, and F3. They are quite audible if the modwheel is 70% or below. If I play them in succession, I do not need a percussion on the background to keep the ryhthm
> 
> Seems Mid Strings patch has to be carefully exposed and preferably hidden behind other instruments to suppress the noise issues. This nki and the Pianos a3 patch are the most disappointing in the whole library so far. The crackling voice in the sustain patch in Women Choir is disturbing but still workable. Thankfully, the Brass and Winds have been fine so far. They were my main reasons for pre-ordering.
> 
> ...


You should give Low Strings a try; pretty much all articulations have background noise.. It's worth mentioning to people watching this thread that, at least from what I found, "background noise" are mainly crackling sound of moving chairs at sample tails.


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## Reactor.UK (Dec 23, 2016)

This is my own opinion (right or wrong). It would be nice if OT could give some interest and feedback on the points raised within this thread. Without which, I can't imagine it will help those feel confident to purchase future libraries from OT, nor those who may have shown interest.


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## lp59burst (Dec 23, 2016)

Reactor.UK said:


> This is my own opinion (right or wrong). It would be nice if OT could give some interest and feedback on the points raised within this thread. Without which, I can't imagine it will help those feel confident to purchase future libraries from OT, nor those who may have shown interest.


Since it's Christmas Eve morning in Germany I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that any time soon...  

I wonder, has anyone who believes this is an issue needed to be addressed opened one with OT on their *Support* site?


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## procreative (Dec 23, 2016)

They are aware of this thread and from what they said to me dont consider any of these issues serious. Apart from the choir glitch.

I see what you mean about noises from players fidgeting or putting their bows down, Spitfire have some of this in their samples too especially Albion.

However unless they have extra takes I cannot see that ever getting fixed as re-editing will lose the natural tails. And there is no way they are going to re-record those.

But unless you play the same notes over and over and over again, its probably not going to be that bad. I mean in isolation sure, but none of the demos jumped out and shouted these issues.


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## samy (Dec 23, 2016)

SirKen said:


> Just found other thumping sounds for Mid Strings Fast Tremolo patch (TRM-F) on the notes D#3, E3, and F3. They are quite audible if the modwheel is 70% or below. If I play them in succession, I do not need a percussion on the background to keep the ryhthm
> 
> Seems Mid Strings patch has to be carefully exposed and preferably hidden behind other instruments to suppress the noise issues. This nki and the Pianos a3 patch are the most disappointing in the whole library so far. The crackling voice in the sustain patch in Women Choir is disturbing but still workable. Thankfully, the Brass and Winds have been fine so far. They were my main reasons for pre-ordering.
> 
> ...



I totally agree. It is not just the noise from the string patches, but also different crackling noises in a lot of other patches. I can already name more than 10 different of these in under an hour of going through the patches. And these are not like a bit of noise, but like real annoying stuff like a crackle noise that gives the attack of the note a different sound than the others or that double trigger piano note I wrote before. Or also all that noise on the low patches that C-Wave wrote above.
Some of the patches I can only use for a quiet layer on top of other instruments where these noise problems aren`t audible. This is not why I actually bought it.
I still understand the different opinions here and agree with most of them, also the point that the whole library is a fantastic concept and has a lot of inspiration in it. Also that some kind of noise in a low level recording is normal.

I am just a disappointed in the fact, that OT wasn`t able to remove these different noise and crackle problems before the release. A bit of imperfection in samples is cool, but if it gets this obvious, I am really irritated (and I know my clients might be too).
Probably won`t pre-order again too. I better pay a bit more for a library that I can fully use.


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## aelwyn (Dec 23, 2016)

Do you know what this thread reminds me of? As an avid photography hobbyist, I'm a frequent reader on some photography forums... and every time there's a new lens or a new body that comes out, there are folks who pore over every technical detail and endlessly debate the relative merits and compromises of the equipment. They'll view a photo at 100% ("pixel peeping" as it's called, which, unless you're printing a billboard, is more or less pointless) and find something to complain about, without fail. I'm not saying it's a bad thing — on the contrary, I think it keeps the manufacturers honest to know they're being scrutinized so closely.

But at the same time... no matter the technical shortcomings, it's still possible to make beautiful photos with that equipment. It's entirely in the skill and eye of the person operating it. In other words, it's not the _gear _that would be holding someone back.

The parallels here are obvious. You can take a sample from the library, remove it from all context and criticize it to death. Or you can _use _the library and write something beautiful if you have the talent. We've listened to the demos, and we KNOW it's capable of sounding amazing in skilled hands. 

Show me a well-written piece mocked up with this library that is ruined by extraneous noise. If that happens, then I'd wholeheartedly agree OT needs to address it. Until then, I think they're right in considering this a nonissue.

Go forth and write... and don't miss the forest for the trees.


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## lp59burst (Dec 23, 2016)

aelwyn said:


> Do you know what this thread reminds me of? As an avid photography hobbyist, I'm a frequent reader on some photography forums... and every time there's a new lens or a new body that comes out, there are folks who pore over every technical detail and endlessly debate the relative merits and compromises of the equipment. They'll view a photo at 100% ("pixel peeping" as it's called, which, unless you're printing a billboard, is more or less pointless) and find something to complain about, without fail. I'm not saying it's a bad thing — on the contrary, I think it keeps the manufacturers honest to know they're being scrutinized so closely.
> 
> But at the same time... no matter the technical shortcomings, it's still possible to make beautiful photos with that equipment. It's entirely in the skill and eye of the person operating it. In other words, it's not the _gear _that would be holding someone back.
> 
> ...


+1

I'm an amateur photographer too and this happens a lot on PotN... still a fantastic web Forum though.


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## Whatisvalis (Dec 24, 2016)

I would like to see a little more curation from devs on release samples in particular. There are incredible tools such as RX5 available today that can remove transient noise - Alb 5 suffers from poor release regions (in fact it looks like the release points were set via batch processing versus by listening, and adjusting by hand).


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 24, 2016)

There's an old axiom in photography. Never stick a really expensive lens on a crap camera. Why? Because the picture will be worse than if the lens was the same quality as the camera. Because with a really good lens, the camera can't reconcile all the detail that's coming in, and it shows up all the deficiencies of the camera. Like noise.
Equally, a great camera shows up all the deficiencies of a crap lens.
So if you've got a really good monitoring and sound system attached to your DAW, then any extraneous noise in a sample library will be amplified more than if your sound system is crap.
Music editors and sound engineers usually have pretty good sound systems.


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## Vavastrasza (Dec 24, 2016)

Just got this downloaded and installed today and I have to agree: the noise on the string sustains is unbelievable, even on my laptop speakers without headphones.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 24, 2016)

aelwyn said:


> Do you know what this thread reminds me of? As an avid photography hobbyist, I'm a frequent reader on some photography forums... and every time there's a new lens or a new body that comes out, there are folks who pore over every technical detail and endlessly debate the relative merits and compromises of the equipment. They'll view a photo at 100% ("pixel peeping" as it's called, which, unless you're printing a billboard, is more or less pointless) and find something to complain about, without fail. I'm not saying it's a bad thing — on the contrary, I think it keeps the manufacturers honest to know they're being scrutinized so closely.
> 
> But at the same time... no matter the technical shortcomings, it's still possible to make beautiful photos with that equipment. It's entirely in the skill and eye of the person operating it. In other words, it's not the _gear _that would be holding someone back.
> 
> ...



I don't think anyone is denying the fact that you can write incredible music with Ark 2. Just by listening to the demos, one can hear the remarkable potential it has. I think the common theme here is that there are just enough artifacts in this library for it to be distracting, which poses an issue when It comes time to compose, and also causes some regret, because of the money that was spent.

Since you're a photographer, imagine trying to take a shot of a beautiful sunset with a brand new lens, but there are noticeable black spots right in the center of the shot. You may begin to wonder If your lens is defective, or maybe quality control just missed a couple of things, or maybe it actually was purposely designed that way, but knowing that you can't return the lens, you're either stuck with it producing black spots on your photos, or you rely on editing software that compromises the overall quality of the photo. Sure, the overall image that you just took is certainly beautiful, but knowing that there are artifacts in that image, even if they are ones that the general public won't notice, you too may begin to regret your buying decision.

I think it's safe to assume that most people here are certainly aware of the common anomalies found in sample libraries, but every so often, a library comes out that has so many anomalies that it strikes a nerve. I'm not saying that Ark 2 is that library (i dont own it), but I am suggesting that when there are enough complaints about odd noises in sample libraries, I can't help but wonder If statements like, "It adds realism!" or, "It sounds amazing in the right hands!" are being used to dismiss those complaints, or are being used to offer a different perspective.


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## WindcryMusic (Dec 24, 2016)

I just did some testing of the specific noise issues raised in this thread for myself. Speaking only for myself, I don't think the majority of them are any sort of serious impediment to using the library.

However, one glaring exception is the "thumps" in the Strings Mid Tremolo Fast articulation, which appear on most of the notes, not just D#3 thru F3 as was reported here earlier. You have to hold each note for about six seconds before it appears, but frankly it sounds like bad loop points, really bad in fact. I have to agree that this articulation is not usable for any long held tremolo notes in its current state. That's pretty disappointing.

EDIT: Yes, I feel certain the particular problems I mentioned above are due to bad loop points. I opened up the patch editor in Kontakt for the Mid Strings Fast Trems patch and looked at one of the raw samples, and the end loop point was clearly nowhere near a zero crossing even though the loop start was right on a zero crossing, which will inevitably cause a noise. Furthermore, I tried adjusting the end point by hand to a nearby zero crossing and was able to get rid of the noise.

Kudos to OT for making their patches able to be edited. But it is most unfortunate that they didn't deal with these issues themselves before the release. I surely do hope they will do so in an official patch.


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## Consona (Dec 24, 2016)

Cinematic Strings 2 or some Loegria patches have release samples so noisy you have to turn them off or tweak release just to be able to use them, so this Ark 2 situation is not something special. But I agree developers could do something about that.


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## tomaslobosk (Dec 24, 2016)

This is just a general misunderstanding of what signal to noise ratio is.
If you record really quiet stuff, as they did with this release, signal to noise ratio decreases as noise level is fixed (It depends on the equipment used and the environment where the recordings took place)
What they did is to add some gain to those samples to make the library more usable, meaning, signal level increases, but sadly noise level increases too.
What happens here is that those samples should be used as true ppp, while the OT guys are trying to use them in a different context, and that's why this thread exists.
If you want to use ppp samples in loud music, recordings should be done using mics with exceptionally high signal to noise ratios, and in highly anechoic environments.
I personally don't like this approach (like VSL), and it seems that neither the OT guys do, so there's nothing to do here.


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## WindcryMusic (Dec 24, 2016)

tomaslobosk said:


> This is just a general misunderstanding of what signal to noise ratio is.
> If you record really quiet stuff, as they did with this release, signal to noise ratio decreases as noise level is fixed (It depends on the equipment used and the environment where the recordings took place)
> What they did is to add some gain to those samples to make the library more usable, meaning, signal level increases, but sadly noise level increases too.
> What happens here is that those samples should be used as true ppp, while the OT guys are trying to use them in a different context, and that's why this thread exists.
> ...



For the complaints about general background noise level, chairs moving, etc., I pretty much agree with you. I don't agree about the loop point glitches I described in my last message, though …. those aren't acceptable in any sample library (much less a relatively high-end one like this) and really should be fixed.


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## tomaslobosk (Dec 24, 2016)

WindcryMusic said:


> For the complaints about general background noise level, chairs moving, etc., I pretty much agree with you. I don't agree about the loop point glitches I described in my last message, though …. those aren't acceptable in any sample library (much less a relatively high-end one like this) and really should be fixed.



I agree.


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## mac (Dec 24, 2016)

WindcryMusic said:


> For the complaints about general background noise level, chairs moving, etc., I pretty much agree with you. I don't agree about the loop point glitches I described in my last message, though …. those aren't acceptable in any sample library (much less a relatively high-end one like this) and really should be fixed.



Yep, bad loop points are all kinds of bad, a relatively easy fix and should be sorted asap.


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## Anthony N.Putson (Dec 26, 2016)

The noise doesnt bother me at all given when 40 or so tracks are chugging along. As most have said recording soft dynamics will always incure more noise...


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## JeremyWiebe (Dec 26, 2016)

So I've finally had time to play around with Ark II a bit and I agree that in some instruments the noise tends to be a little too much at times, but of course this is expected for a library of low dynamics. I'm not overly concerned, but I do think the High Strings, the Mid Strings, the Room Piano, the Harmonium and the Organ could benefit from some de-noising. The Low Strings, the Harps, the Woodwinds and the Brass all sound fine to me. 

I actually find the mid strings sus almost seem to suffer from the exact opposite problem as the high strings sus, which have a release that seems to last 2-3 seconds. The mid string sus releases feel unusually short and dry to me, especially coming from OT and their characteristically lush Teldex releases, and there is not the build up of noise at the end of them. I even thought at first maybe their was a glitch and the patch loaded with the releases purged, but that wasn't the case. I thought maybe the seconded close mic that comes pre-loaded in the patch maybe affected the sound, but even just using the tree mic I found the mid strings sus releases noticeably short, almost like they had been clipped at the end. Anyone else notice this?

Otherwise I'm happy with the library so far. I hadn't noticed in the patch walkthrough video that the strings come with two vibrato levels (romantic and without), so that was a nice surprise. And the Wagner Tuben come with two sus types, immediate and soft, so that was another bonus. And interestingly, the Mid String sus is sampled at three layers, unlike the rest.

I also find the crossfades in the brass and woodwinds really smooth. I only wish they had sampled the full dynamic range!


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## Clochette (Dec 31, 2016)

Hello everyone, about Metropolis Ark 2, I've got a question and don't know where to post it( new here, speak french from Zwitzerland, sorry.. anyway, my question: I had the opportunity to try the children's sustain choir from Metropolis Ark 2 at a friend's place who owns a studio, playing chords, and could change the velocity only for the whole patch and not of each note,(In logic pro X you have different colours for the velocity) for example, the high notes are much louder than the others which are low, (obviously)and could'nt find where to change velocity of the individual notes, does anybody know how to do that? thanks a lot for your answer and happy new year


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## Saxer (Dec 31, 2016)

Clochette said:


> Hello everyone, about Metropolis Ark 2, I've got a question and don't know where to post it( new here, speak french from Zwitzerland, sorry.. anyway, my question: I had the opportunity to try the children's sustain choir from Metropolis Ark 2 at a friend's place who owns a studio, playing chords, and could change the velocity only for the whole patch and not of each note,(In logic pro X you have different colours for the velocity) for example, the high notes are much louder than the others which are low, (obviously)and could'nt find where to change velocity of the individual notes, does anybody know how to do that? thanks a lot for your answer and happy new year


A polyphonic ensemble patch with dynamic crossfade modulation always controls all notes together. This also concerns ensemble strings, brass etc.
But you can open several instances in Logic and play the voices one by one on different tracks.


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## Kony (Dec 31, 2016)

Saxer said:


> But you can open several instances in Logic and play the voices one by one on different tracks


Or just copy paste the midi track to another instance of the children's choir, remove the top line from one channel, then on the duplicated track remove all notes except the top line. Then adjust volume or velocity levels as required.

In other words, removing the top line from one channel, and leaving only the top line in another duplicated channel so you can make required adjustments. Hope this makes sense


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## Clochette (Dec 31, 2016)

Thank you Saxer and Kony for your quick respons and explanation, in fact, it's exactly what I tried, but much to long as process, not pratical at all, too bad, won't buy it then...take care and thanks again (-; www.imagineyourmusic.com


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## dpasdernick (Dec 31, 2016)

Vastman said:


> No humans allowed, say the machines!
> Must stamp out all evidence of real human beings!
> All that noise once called living... Erase it! RIGHT NOW!
> Although we're still creatures please don't let it show,
> ...



The idea of these "imperfections" in the samples adding a human element to the sound is understandable the first time you hear it BUT... when you trigger the same Bb in a phrase and hear the exact same chair creak or human breath the "human" goes way out the window and the phrase screams "I'm a sample".

when i first bought Albion there were terrible tuning issues and the developer was telling me "it makes it more human" Again, hearing the same note flat or sharp everytime it's triggered betrays any humanity... 

I too have noticed quite a few 'peculiar ' samples in Ark2. Here's hoping they can clean it up a tad in Rev 2. It's still a wonderful library.


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## samy (Jan 1, 2017)

dpasdernick said:


> The idea of these "imperfections" in the samples adding a human element to the sound is understandable the first time you hear it BUT... when you trigger the same Bb in a phrase and hear the exact same chair creak or human breath the "human" goes way out the window and the phrase screams "I'm a sample".
> 
> when i first bought Albion there were terrible tuning issues and the developer was telling me "it makes it more human" Again, hearing the same note flat or sharp everytime it's triggered betrays any humanity...
> 
> I too have noticed quite a few 'peculiar ' samples in Ark2. Here's hoping they can clean it up a tad in Rev 2. It's still a wonderful library.



I totally agree. The library is great, and some noise is okay. But I also really hope they fix the patches that contain these little glitches that make these patches almost unusable (unless you skip the notes that contain them). Please OT


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## Gabriel Oliveira (Jan 1, 2017)

Clochette said:


> but much to long as process, not pratical at all, too bad, won't buy it then...



no library will have individual dynamic control per voice.


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## Clochette (Jan 1, 2017)

Gabriel Oliveira said:


> no library will have individual dynamic control per voice.


hi again, sorry, didn't know  in the full polyphonic string patch from the "complete orchestral collection" from Peter Siedlaczek for instance, you can change the velocity from each individual note, I thought that it would then be possible with voice libraries.. again, too bad (-;


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## Clochette (Jan 1, 2017)

Gabriel Oliveira said:


> no library will have individual dynamic control per voice.


PS: I found a solution!  in case someone is interested, I saw my friend today, he owns the Symphobia series from Projectsam, and in the Lumina library is a "sustain choir" in the "playable instruments" where you can choose to use or the dynamics or the articulation for the modwheel, so you can change the velocity for each note, it's great, just perfect! (-;


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Jan 1, 2017)

In fact, this is also possible with every Orchestral Tools instrument. If you're using the Single Articulation patch, you just have to click on the big main knob, and switch from Modwheel (Xfade) control to Velocity control.

If you're using the Multis, go to the articulation options (the Tool icon), and check the CC/Vel Xfade switch.

Edit : If you do that, you won't be able to make each voice "evolve" during a note, as you won't have any crossfade through one sample to another. The only option to be able to do that would be, as mentionned before, to create several single instances and control each voice separetely, with Xfade/Modwheel


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## Clochette (Jan 1, 2017)

whitewasteland said:


> In fact, this is also possible with every Orchestral Tools instrument. If you're using the Single Articulation patch, you just have to click on the big main knob, and switch from Modwheel (Xfade) control to Velocity control.
> 
> If you're using the Multis, go to the articulation options (the Tool icon), and check the CC/Vel Xfade switch.
> 
> Edit : If you do that, you won't be able to make each voice "evolve" during a note, as you won't have any crossfade through one sample to another. The only option to be able to do that would be, as mentionned before, to create several single instances and control each voice separetely, with Xfade/Modwheel



thank you so much, very very helpful! happy new year!


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## mark.warman (Jan 2, 2017)

WindcryMusic said:


> the Strings Mid Tremolo Fast articulation...is not usable for any long held tremolo notes in its current state.



I have just fired up my copy of Ark 2 for the first time and something has clearly gone wrong with the loop point programming for this patch. Given OT's reputation for high quality, I'm sure they will issue a speedy fix for this. Not sure they can do anything about the sound of Violas squirming in their seats after each note they record, though!


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## Seamus (Jan 6, 2017)

Overall I'm happy with this library, but I came here to concur that the noise on some of these samples is pretty intense. I was just playing around with the solo piano patch and on some of the sustains, you can definitely hear birds in the background! Try hitting G1 on the sustain solo piano patch to see what I mean...


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## samy (Jan 6, 2017)

Seamus said:


> Overall I'm happy with this library, but I came here to concur that the noise on some of these samples is pretty intense. I was just playing around with the solo piano patch and on some of the sustains, you can definitely hear birds in the background! Try hitting G1 on the sustain solo piano patch to see what I mean...



Yes I know, I noticed that as well the first I played it and hold the sustain pedal down for a few seconds. As a solo piano for me not usable, for layering it might be okay. Unfortunately there are several patches I will not use as main instruments, because there are just to many noises in it. Would also be cool to hear back from OT about these problems.


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## galactic orange (Jan 6, 2017)

Seamus said:


> I was just playing around with the solo piano patch and on some of the sustains, you can definitely hear birds in the background!



Perhaps they took the meaning of Ark too literally.


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## lp59burst (Jan 6, 2017)

samy said:


> Yes I know, I noticed that as well the first I played it and hold the sustain pedal down for a few seconds. As a solo piano for me not usable, for layering it might be okay. Unfortunately there are several patches I will not use as main instruments, because there are just to many noises in it. Would also be cool to hear back from OT about these problems.


Yes, agreed... the silence is deafening... 

106 posts and birds chirping...


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## milesito (Jan 6, 2017)

I'm hoping for a big update. I can't use some of these sample patches due to the noise as well...Quite unfortunate because the concept is great...but it's so inconsistent too and hence too much risk to put into projects with tight time lines these days. I jumped on the early deal price but it was possibly not worth it, as I can't use this yet. Ironically Ii didn't realize a company so reputable could release something so poor, and I have not heard a peep from them on the forum with regards to an acknowledgement, plan, or timeframe to address these issues. Please correct me if I'm wrong and I can update this post.


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## Jaap (Jan 7, 2017)

Hmm though I normally can be annoyed by noise (ranted in the past about the EW solo harp noise), somehow here I don't mind it at all. For me, but that's personal of course, it creates a good ambient and when I incorporate it in a mix with other libraries it is not killing the mix


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## WindcryMusic (Jan 7, 2017)

milesito said:


> I jumped on the early deal price but it was possibly not worth it, as I can't use this yet. Ironically I didn't realize a company so reputable could release something so poor, and I have not heard a peep from them on the forum with regards to an acknowledgement, plan, or timeframe to address these issues.



Understandable. And I'd have to say that the not-quite-as-hoped-for condition of Ark 2 at release and the response from OT thus far has already altered my personal sample library roadmap. Prior to the release of Ark 2 my plan was to wait until I could afford to fully flesh out an OT Symphonic sample library, with the thinking that they were undeniably the elite choice based upon my experience with Ark 1 and the Timpani expansion, plus the prevailing opinion hereabouts. But my Ark 2 purchase caused me to re-evaluate, and now, in the last two weeks, I've purchased two of the three Spitfire Symphonic libraries, and have basically committed in my mind to the goal of a Spitfire-based orchestra instead. I don't think I would have done that if Ark 2 had been equally as glorious as Ark 1 was.


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## lp59burst (Jan 7, 2017)

WindcryMusic said:


> Understandable. And I'd have to say that the not-quite-as-hoped-for condition of Ark 2 at release and the response from OT thus far has already altered my personal sample library roadmap. Prior to the release of Ark 2 my plan was to wait until I could afford to fully flesh out an OT Symphonic sample library, with the thinking that they were undeniably the elite choice based upon my experience with Ark 1 and the Timpani expansion, plus the prevailing opinion hereabouts. But my Ark 2 purchase caused me to re-evaluate, and now, in the last two weeks, I've purchased two of the three Spitfire Symphonic libraries, and have basically committed in my mind to the goal of a Spitfire-based orchestra instead. I don't think I would have done that if Ark 2 had been equally as glorious as Ark 1 was.


Ditto on going all-in with SFA... I have recently chosen SSS, SCS, SSW, SSB, and the Albion's.

Not only because they make fantastic products but also because of their proactive participation on VI-C.


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## Nils Neumann (Jan 7, 2017)

WindcryMusic said:


> Understandable. And I'd have to say that the not-quite-as-hoped-for condition of Ark 2 at release and the response from OT thus far has already altered my personal sample library roadmap. Prior to the release of Ark 2 my plan was to wait until I could afford to fully flesh out an OT Symphonic sample library, with the thinking that they were undeniably the elite choice based upon my experience with Ark 1 and the Timpani expansion, plus the prevailing opinion hereabouts. But my Ark 2 purchase caused me to re-evaluate, and now, in the last two weeks, I've purchased two of the three Spitfire Symphonic libraries, and have basically committed in my mind to the goal of a Spitfire-based orchestra instead. I don't think I would have done that if Ark 2 had been equally as glorious as Ark 1 was.



Yeah, at least a comment about the issues on the forum could have changed my mind, I'm 100% sure that they saw this thread. For me this is a big scratch on their image.


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## jacobthestupendous (Jan 27, 2017)

Today's the last day for the launch special on MA2. Now that folks have had some time to get used to the quirks and maybe mend some initial disappointment over imperfection, would they recommend it or not?


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## Vavastrasza (Jan 27, 2017)

I would recommend it still. I love the tubas. You can get really Wagnerian. The low brass is also very nice. The strings continue to be unusable for me but I imagine they will fix it in time.


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## Nils Neumann (Jan 27, 2017)

jacobthestupendous said:


> Today's the last day for the launch special on MA2. Now that folks have had some time to get used to the quirks and maybe mend some initial disappointment over imperfection, would they recommend it or not?


Choirs are excellent 
Brass is good (no noise problems)
Ww are good
Strings have to much noise for my taste, but you can work around that, layering is the key word. But I don't use them at all (except the "special articulations").
Love the harp sound
The keys are ok
The Percussion has a big selection, great sounding.


Most of the staccato articulations have to much noise for me, which kills staccato phrases.
I absolutely love all the special articulations, like the flageolet glissandi in the strings or multiphonics in the ring tubas, they all have a incredible vibe!


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## humco (Jan 27, 2017)

Recommended. If the patch is bad, you'll either have to dig for something else disappointed or just be sure to not play it in isolation. If it's in the mix, you won't notice.

And I don't expect anything to get "fixed". It is what it is and I'm happy with it, even with imperfections.


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## muk (Jan 28, 2017)

'Ark 2 - extreme noise'. Just for a second I thought that was the real title of the library.


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## Fer (Jan 28, 2017)

there are a lot of gems in mark2; choirs brass, special fx are fantastic... woodwinds also, altough they are not for a standard writting. and the whole library is capable of a lot of colours imo. About musicians making noises, thats a matter of personal taste; i like that. about the noise floor.. the only patch that i had problems with for that reason was the solo piano patch. And there are some programing bugs also. i just posted a mark2 track here:
http://vi-control.net/community/threads/abandoned-house.59435/
everything is mark2 except the piano and the harmonics tremolo. i hope that helps


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## Niah2 (Jan 28, 2017)

I love the noise, but I can see it can be a problem for some people...


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## JasonTse (Jan 28, 2017)

I really love the choirs and the brass patches. The string shorts seem to have some real noise though.


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## sazema (Feb 3, 2017)

Definitively not good! If is a matter of taste then they must add option "turn on tasty noise" in config menu 
I checked high strings sustain patch and there is a problem with both close and tree samples (if I solo each group of samples separately). But tree's are even ok what kind of close is .
It's strange type of noise, it's like recorded sound is very low and then is processed with high compression/limiting.
But it's definetively located at tail samples, here I found noise:





From this loop they use only tail at key release and you can see in wave form a noise. Unfortunately it's impossible to add fade out for nkx files :(


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## dog1978 (Feb 3, 2017)

So here is my review:

English:


German:


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## Vastman (Feb 3, 2017)

Nils Neumann said:


> Yeah, at least a comment about the issues on the forum could have changed my mind, I'm 100% sure that they saw this thread. For me this is a big scratch on their image.


I agree... failure to communicate is a factor in my future directions. While I still love the ARKs, and have fallen in love with Capsule, many valid issues have been raised and the lack of ANY communication from OT really sucks. I was holding off on new brass/woods libraries, due to finances but at this point Spitfire will get my duckets for the orchestra upgrade as I already own Symphonic Strings.

Communication is sooooo important. Whether OT folk agree or disagree with specific issues raised, (some of which don't matter to me at all) respectfully engaging in discussions with their users is very important to me. Letting us know what is planned, if anything, would have stopped the growing frustration. It leaves the impression they don't give a frack...

In my mind, OT's heretofore stellar reputation is indeed being seriously tarnished and I will be looking elsewhere until this changes.


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## dcoscina (Feb 3, 2017)

lp59burst said:


> Ditto on going all-in with SFA... I have recently chosen SSS, SCS, SSW, SSB, and the Albion's.
> 
> Not only because they make fantastic products but also because of their proactive participation on VI-C.


I went with SSB because I owned so many of the BML Brass so the price was a no brainer and OT Brass would have been 4 times as much. I have Ark I, horn exp C, Sphere, and their Grand- all terrific instruments. I don't like to complain about product quality But Ark 2 noise levels are very pronounced and I'm also finding it hard to use a lot of the library because of its. The loop point on the bass drum in the percussion patch just cuts off abruptly and forced me to use a Project Sam big bass drum at mp. Bummer,

I really hope they come out with fixes for this....


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## Jack Weaver (Feb 3, 2017)

Actually it doesn't bother me too much. I understood from the beginning that these instruments were meant to be used in an atypical fashion - in very silent music or quiet sections within pieces. So.... I simply use them in the quiet passages so the inherent noise level is in line with the levels of the louder libraries.

OT's contention is that if they apply heavy levels of noise reduction the nature of the sound of the samples will be changed negatively. I'll take them at their word on this. I don't think they are lazy, incompetent or negligent. Could they spend more time communicating with customers on forums? Maybe, but ask CineSamples, Spitfire, 8Dio and several others about that.

That said, I think all of the major developers have blind spots regarding communicating on technical issues with their products. Every one of them.... I have long since tempered my expectations. 

If you want that big, loud sound (and who doesn't?) then use libraries like ARK 1, SF Symphonic Strings, Berlin Strings, etc., etc.

.


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## lp59burst (Feb 3, 2017)

^^^ I agree with you on that assessment for the most part. That being said I have Albion V which is a similarly targeted product (me thinks...) and I'm not hearing the same level of ambient... umm... character...


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## Jack Weaver (Feb 3, 2017)

lp59burst said:


> ^^^ I agree with you on that assessment for the most part. That being said I have Albion V which is a similarly targeted product (me thinks...) and I'm not hearing the same level of ambient... umm... character...



I have Tundra also. I wonder if it's because Spitfire's room is so much bigger than OT's and the distance to the mics is different. But yeah... good point lp59burst!

Still, I like all my new libs from Spitfire and OT - except for the trumpets in Berlin Brass. 

.


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## FriFlo (Feb 4, 2017)

Jack Weaver said:


> I have Tundra also. I wonder if it's because Spitfire's room is so much bigger than OT's and the distance to the mics is different. But yeah... good point lp59burst!
> 
> Still, I like all my new libs from Spitfire and OT - except for the trumpets in Berlin Brass.
> 
> .


I have both and while I have made no scientific comparison it seems to me that Tundra is just very quiet out of the box, while M2 seems to be at a similar level as M1, although in reality, the M2 patches should be a lot more quiet. So, without having tested, I assume you will get pretty much the same noise ratio, when using both libraries at similar volume levels ...


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## Jack Weaver (Feb 4, 2017)

Since we're talking about noise and acceptable levels of noise in certain products....

*Question: Does Spitfire use noise reduction in processing their samples?

Question: Do you want noise reduction in your libraries?*

I'm just musing here so please don't start throwing darts, but Spitfire libraries sound 'softer' to me than OT libraries. I'm sure a lot of that is just the difference in their rooms. 

I have all the SF strings, brass, ww, perc, Albions, Evos, etc. I have the OT strings, brass, perc, ww. I'd generally characterize SF as a bit soft and OT as a bit more 'in your ear'. (I enjoy all these libraries and am happy to use them on a regular basis. I respect both developers and have enjoyed their good support and communication.) 

I'm just wondering out loud if noise reduction could contribute to this difference. I know that some of the SF libraries have been recorded to tape first. That could give a more forward yet softer transient quality to those specific products. But that wouldn't explain them all.

?

.


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## Niah2 (Feb 4, 2017)

I don't know what they do but I wish spitfire was more noisy, I miss that tape feel...


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## Vastman (Feb 4, 2017)

Jack Weaver said:


> Since we're talking about noise and acceptable levels of noise in certain products....
> 
> *Question: Does Spitfire use noise reduction in processing their samples?
> 
> ...


With today's artifact removal systems, such as iZotope's excellent RX-5 Audio Editor noise removal system, there is no need to muck up the original audio. I imagine many are employing this, including spitfire. OT? apparantly not.

RX-5 will NOT impact the signal/dynamics, unless you employ it's many other features like leveling... It should be used, or something like it (if there is anything like it!), and would immediately get rid of most of the complaints folks are voicing here.


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## Jack Weaver (Feb 4, 2017)

As an owner and user of Rx5, I don't really agree that it doesn't affect the quality. Certainly it doesn't affect the signal precipitously but it does to a certain extent.

I was taking Rx into account when I asked those questions.

But still, ARK 2 is noticeably noisier than Tundra - but not in all instrument patches. 

.


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## Vastman (Feb 4, 2017)

Jack Weaver said:


> As an owner and user of Rx5, I don't really agree that it doesn't affect the quality. Certainly it doesn't affect the signal precipitously but it does to a certain extent.
> 
> I was taking Rx into account when I asked those questions.
> 
> ...


Jack.. it CAN change things enormously, depending on what you do with it. However, "quality" is a very subjective word...and it can very easily be used JUST to remove extraneous noises without changing the character of a sample. I bet it is employed by others and may have been on Tundra (who knows???) given it being a quiet library, or on other favorites around here, in finalizing libraries. I doubt you would know or be able to say, "oh, that sample is different, it's been RXed!" The "noise" is just gone and this thread does not happen...Now, going thru individual samples _after the fact_ might be too time consuming for OT or they may just have a different philosophy but it _could_ be done and would not ruin the samples. And I maintain that if they'd done so, on the select samples that folks are complaining about, fewer complaints would be registered...and NO ONE would be saying, "hey, you RXed that sample"


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## Jack Weaver (Feb 5, 2017)

Vastman said:


> And I maintain that if they'd done so, on the select samples that folks are complaining about, fewer complaints would be registered...and NO ONE would be saying, "hey, you RXed that sample"


Agreed. Some developers are sticklers on some points that may or may not be of little import to the rest of us out here. 

.


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## rocking.xmas.man (Feb 6, 2017)

I'm not shure how a good workflow would be for RX-ing multiple mic positions. Wouldn't you want to have the exact same changes to be made in all mics to ensure their phase coherence?


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## mac (Feb 26, 2017)

Is it just me, or do the mid string longs, especially the sustains, have little to no release tail? Sounds like a completely different library, and not for the better...


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## tim727 (Nov 26, 2017)

The last post in this thread was 9 months ago. I'm wondering if anyone can confirm whether or not OT has released an update to fix these issues ... or if they've at least commented on them? I've been considering getting MA2 given the current Black Friday deal but I'm concerned about the issues raised here.


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 27, 2017)

Well if they have, it's the best kept secret I have ever come across....


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## WindcryMusic (Nov 27, 2017)

tim727 said:


> I'm wondering if anyone can confirm whether or not OT has released an update to fix these issues ... or if they've at least commented on them? I've been considering getting MA2 given the current Black Friday deal but I'm concerned about the issues raised here.



Like mikeybabes, I've not heard of anything having been updated in MA2. And quite frankly, both because of some of these issues and in general, MA2 has been one of my least used libraries and one of the few purchases I sort of regret. It was also the purchase that subsequently pushed me into committing to Spitfire rather than OT for the bulk of my symphonic library.


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## rvb (Nov 27, 2017)

WindcryMusic said:


> Like mikeybabes, I've not heard of anything having been updated in MA2. And quite frankly, both because of some of these issues and in general, MA2 has been one of my least used libraries and one of the few purchases I sort of regret. It was also the purchase that subsequently pushed me into committing to Spitfire rather than OT for the bulk of my symphonic library.



I bought MA2 two days ago, and I completely forgot about this thread, when I was playing around with it this thread suddenly came back to me, the noise on some of these patches can get a little bit much.

EDIT: After owning Ark 2 for a while I must say the noise has never been a problem in an actual mix


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Nov 27, 2017)

I guess we don't have the same library... Ark 2 volumes have been raised, but this is still low dynamics.

If you play a pp articulation and try to match it to the volume of a forte in another library.... Yes there will be noise.


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 27, 2017)

In many cases the noise makes it seem to be more life like - but for me the library is JUST on the wrong side of too much noise.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Nov 27, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> In many cases the noise makes it seem to be more life like - but for me the library is JUST on the wrong side of too much noise.



I can understand that and didn't want to offend anyone with my comment, of course.
I just love this library and find it very usable, so it almost makes me sad when I read negative comments about it


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 27, 2017)

No-one here is offended - we don't need safe spaces on VI- Control as we are made of sterner stuff.

(However, gearslutz is a different story altogether...)


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## JeremyWiebe (Nov 27, 2017)

There's some noise in this library, but it's never prevented me from getting very good use out of it. The strings are the worst offenders (particularly the mid strings if I recall). But the brass, woodwinds, and choirs are absolutely gorgeous. There's just so much to love in MA2, that I can't at all say the noise as been a detriment for me. And it's been a very inspiring library for me. 

I hands down do not regret buying MA2.


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## tim727 (Nov 27, 2017)

whitewasteland said:


> I guess we don't have the same library... Ark 2 volumes have been raised, but this is still low dynamics.
> 
> If you play a pp articulation and try to match it to the volume of a forte in another library.... Yes there will be noise.



@whitewasteland does raise an interest point. I guess if you're using pp dynamics on a patch for example, then the volume of said patch should be lower than that of a patch for a similar (or the same) kind of instrument in which you're using ff dynamics. Let's say you do use the MA2 patch at a lower volume though ... will the extraneous noise literally disappear (read: be rendered inaudible) or is it still perceptible albeit at a lower volume? I ask because my thinking is that since I haven't really come across these types of noise when using patches at low dynamics in other libraries then even if we are to "buy" the "there's noise because you're boosting the volume on a ppp patch" argument then that implies that the noise *should be gone if said boosting of volume does *not occur.


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## rvb (Nov 27, 2017)

JeremyWiebe said:


> There's some noise in this library, but it's never prevented me from getting very good use out of it. The strings are the worst offenders (particularly the mid strings if I recall). But the brass, woodwinds, and choirs are absolutely gorgeous. There's just so much to love in MA2, that I can't at all say the noise as been a detriment for me. And it's been a very inspiring library for me.
> 
> I hands down do not regret buying MA2.



The choir is definitely fantastic!


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## sazema (Nov 27, 2017)

For strings, just pull down channel fader to around -10, -12 db and it's ok.
Actually it's explained in documentation, and it's a way how strings are recorded, at very low level.


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## mac (Nov 27, 2017)

The mid strings (for example) are a complete disaster. One key will be a lot louder than the next, with some having sharper attacks and others sweeping in, some with no release tail *at all* - they're completely unusable IMO. I brought it up with support and supplied an audio example, and they agreed it didn't sound right at all and it was getting passed to someone, god knows who, I'm still waiting. Others presets like the choir are fantastic. Still, there are probably better things to spend your money on.


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## tim727 (Nov 27, 2017)

mac said:


> The mid strings (for example) are a complete disaster. One key will be a lot louder than the next, with some having sharper attacks and others sweeping in, some with no release tail *at all* - they're completely unusable IMO. I brought it up with support and supplied an audio example, and they agreed it didn't sound right at all and it was getting passed to someone, god knows who, I'm still waiting. Others presets like the choir are fantastic. Still, there are probably better things to spend your money on.



@mac Thanks for your input. Thanks to everyone actually. It seems that people are pretty hotly divided on this, but since there are enough people that have pretty strongly negative things to say, I've decided not to purchase this library. I did just purchase Metropolis Ark I a few moments ago though, so I'm looking forward to giving that its first test run today


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## emilio_n (Aug 15, 2020)

I want to resurrect this ancient thread from years ago. I am thinking of buying Metropolis Ark 2 for SINE and would like to know if the library has been updated in any way. Especially the Mid Strings and their too short tails and some of the most annoying noises.
I don't know if this library is worth buying today. Can someone with MA2 tell me if something has changed? Has anyone tried the SINE version?

Thanks!


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 15, 2020)

it's important to understand that it's simply a very quiet library. 

as a result, the noise floor will be brought up if you try to use it like it's playing fortissimo by cranking the volume. 

I dont think anything major has been done to the library, you're free to buy a single string section or listen to the demos before taking the plunge


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 15, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> I want to resurrect this ancient thread from years ago. I am thinking of buying Metropolis Ark 2 for SINE and would like to know if the library has been updated in any way. Especially the Mid Strings and their too short tails and some of the most annoying noises.
> I don't know if this library is worth buying today. Can someone with MA2 tell me if something has changed? Has anyone tried the SINE version?
> 
> Thanks!


tbh on my laptop at work i cant really hear anything, but this is copy pasting midi from a short little test i was doing - no idea how it sounds, but it's the mid strings sustain + staccato, using a little close I and II and the tree.


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## MaxOctane (Aug 16, 2020)

I did this test of several libraries' mid-string longs showing a scale, a single held note, and chords. Ark 2 shows noise, but it's not so noticeable in the chords here -- will it matter in a mix? 

I left some gaps between the longs to show releases too.

Tested:
* Ark2 Mid Strings Sustain
* Spitfire Chamber Strings Ensemble Long CS
* Spitfire Chamber Strings Ensemble Long Flaut
* Tundra Hi+Low Str -- Flaut CS
* Inspire2 Mid Str Flaut Sustain Immediate
* Spitfire Symphonic Strings Ensemble Long Flaut


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## emilio_n (Aug 16, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> I did this test of several libraries' mid-string longs showing a scale, a single held note, and chords. Ark 2 shows noise, but it's not so noticeable in the chords here -- will it matter in a mix?
> 
> I left some gaps between the longs to show releases too.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for the test. Really the noise is not noticeable.


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 16, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> Thank you very much for the test. Really the noise is not noticeable.


I wonder if it was the close mics? 


that blend is just a little of the close mics to add some clarity heres a second test, trying to come up with better workflows for sketching on my laptop, there's no CC movement and more close mics here, with all 3 sections


green is low, light blue is mid, darker blue is high


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## TomaeusD (Aug 22, 2020)

I purchased a few instruments from Metropolis Ark 2 and unfortunately the noise is highly noticeable in all of the Keys. It wouldn't be so bad if the noise didn't stack. You can shorten the release time in the envelope controls but this also removes the Teldex character which I like.


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 22, 2020)

TomaeusD said:


> I purchased a few instruments from Metropolis Ark 2 and unfortunately the noise is highly noticeable in all of the Keys. It wouldn't be so bad if the noise didn't stack. You can shorten the release time in the envelope controls but this also removes the Teldex character which I like.


can I ask what mic settings you're using? 

I'd be curious to know exactly how loud you're trying to use them as well


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## TomaeusD (Aug 23, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> can I ask what mic settings you're using?
> 
> I'd be curious to know exactly how loud you're trying to use them as well


Sure, I'm just using the default mic settings. I'm not using them any differently than other libraries, in fact I was just noodling through each instrument without touching the mix and it stuck out to me with the keys (especially the Roon piano, which also has a mixed up sample on one of the staccato Ab2 and A2 round robins that I reported). It's not as bad if you don't use sustain, but even then the samples have abnormally long release tails. Once I get back in my studio I could do some more testing and report back on how specific mics compare.


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## gussunkri (Aug 23, 2020)

TomaeusD said:


> Sure, I'm just using the default mic settings. I'm not using them any differently than other libraries, in fact I was just noodling through each instrument without touching the mix and it stuck out to me with the keys (especially the Roon piano, which also has a mixed up sample on one of the staccato Ab2 and A2 round robins that I reported). It's not as bad if you don't use sustain, but even then the samples have abnormally long release tails. Once I get back in my studio I could do some more testing and report back on how specific mics compare.


I reported that Roon piano staccato bug two days ago too. Not a biggie but I wonder if it was there in the Kontakt version as well or if it happened in the port.


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## jononotbono (Aug 23, 2020)

This is one reason I haven’t yet bought Ark 2. Until I try it though I’ll never know if this “noise” is a big deal or not.

I use Cineperc. I find I have to RX the noise from hits when using that. So I do wonder if I’d have to do something similar?


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## emilio_n (Aug 23, 2020)

I bought finally yesterday.
I think most of the noise is not a big deal but in some patches are quite annoying. Not always the cracks and the sounds appears in the tails, sometimes during the attack of the note...
I am sure when I mix in a real composition with other instruments and move down the volume (now is too loud for a ppp - p library) will be ok.


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## Kirk1701 (Aug 24, 2020)

I had a listen to the earlier clips a week ago and it sounded exactly like a compressor release to me.


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