# Where to start with Big Band transcribing?



## Kralc (Feb 27, 2013)

I've been wanting to start transcribing some big band/jazz, but not sure where/who to start with.
Who are some good big bands or ensembles to look at? And possibly any books with arrangements to check with?

Thanks!


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## Jerome Vonhogen (Feb 27, 2013)

Here you go:

_Jazz-Arranging-Online-by-Prof-Chuck-Israels_

Enjoy!

- Jerome


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## Kralc (Feb 27, 2013)

Thank Jerome, seems like a lot of info there!


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## bryla (Feb 27, 2013)

The Bibles of Jazz arranging:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inside-The-Score-Book-CD/dp/B001446OBA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361969029&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inside-The-Scor ... 029&amp;sr=8-1)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Complete-Arranger-Revised-Edition/dp/1424331218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361969049&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Complete-Ar ... 049&amp;sr=8-1)
The last one even teaches you JW secrets....

After listening to the scores in those books, you could try transcribing Glenn Milles, Count Basie, and that generation of big bands to the hang of it.


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## windshore (Feb 27, 2013)

If you are really wanting to learn through transcribing as opposed to studying a book, you might start with some of the pre-big band music. If you try with the more contemporary big bands, the voicings and complexity make it a huge challenge, but if it interests you at all go back and find recordings from the 20's era. A lot of groups were smaller in size and the writing and harmonization was much more vocal-like that what it was like later in the 40's and on. 

I think this is a brilliant and worthwhile method for learning. (I wish I did more of it myself!)


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## composeradrian (Feb 27, 2013)

Mike Tomaro and John Wilson's book _Instrumental Jazz Arranging_ is pretty helpful too. Though it kind of reads like a car manual since it covers everything... and I mean EV-RY-THING! Of course, from the colleagues that have studied with Mike, that's his philosophy.

http://www.amazon.com/Instrumental-Jazz-Arranging-Comprehensive-Practical/dp/1423452747/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361975308&sr=8-1&keywords=instrumental+jazz+arranging (http://www.amazon.com/Instrumental-Jazz ... +arranging)


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## wst3 (Feb 27, 2013)

what worked for me - and I no where near competent yet - 

1) play in a big band, or at least go out to hear a few (more than a few?) live.

2) read the books<G>... Wright's Inside the Score series blew me away, and I go back to it often. Mancini, Baker, and the rest too. Read them, listen to the examples, and then go to the piano or guitar and try out some of the ideas. And the Chuck Israel course is good - I find the on-line thing to be a bit of a drag, and eventually purchased the book. 

3) If you like Chicago or BS&T there are some reasonably accurate transcriptions available. Small sections yes, but it was really helpful for me because I could follow along, and I was familiar with the tunes.

4) Practice... pick one or two tunes, and just work on them. This is where I fall down, because after a while I become frustrated with the parts I can't figure out, and I abandon them. I really need to work on that.

5) I'm not sure about this, but for me I find I progress much more quickly when I'm not distracted by sample libraries, so I tend to check most of my transcriptions on guitar or piano.

6) Steal - ok, ugly word, but take a tune you've transcribed, or even just a chorus, and write something similar. Now's the time to break out the libraries.

7) re-read the books

8) practice some more!

To me, the art of transcription is learning to recognize things you hear. Sounds simplistic, but as I continue my listening/transcribing it seems like I build my vocabulary.

Another source - a lot of highschool big band arrangements now come with recordings. For a while I was helping with the local HS band, and I spent some time with their arrangements, score in hand, listening to the recordings. The arrangements may not be as slick, but they are educational.


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## antoniopandrade (Feb 27, 2013)

For that classic Big Band sound, I'd say anything from Duke Ellington circa 1950s is golden. Also, the Thad Jones / Mel Lewis Orchestra is phenomenal to listen to and learn, for a more 1960s approach. In modern jazz, imo nothing beats the Maria Schneider Orchestra, but then again, that's not really a style of music generally associated with Big Band music (even though she does write more traditional swinged tunes once in a while).


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## Kralc (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestions guys!


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## Jerome Vonhogen (Feb 27, 2013)

I've learned a lot from listening to Walter Murphy's scores. His orchestration skills are excellent. However, I don't know how his big band arrangements compare to the traditional big band sound of the 1950s, since I'm not an expert in this genre (yet).

To me, Walter Murphy is one of the few (well-known) composers who are able to combine several different musical styles into one coherent orchestral language. He combines traditional large scale orchestra with big band in a seemingly effortless way, and he has a gift for melody as well. Too bad he didn't win the Oscar for Best Song this year.

- Jerome


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## bryla (Feb 27, 2013)

+1 on Walter Murphy. Precisely this is also true with Sammy Nestico.


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## trumpoz (Feb 27, 2013)

If you are looking to only transcribe then I would start with early Count Basie Orchestra recordings and some of his smaller ensemble stuff as well. 

Don Sebesky has a great book out on big and arranging, and the Nestico book is brilliant as well.


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## Peter Alexander (Feb 27, 2013)

Kralc @ Wed Feb 27 said:


> I've been wanting to start transcribing some big band/jazz, but not sure where/who to start with.
> Who are some good big bands or ensembles to look at? And possibly any books with arrangements to check with?
> 
> Thanks!




At the link below books by Lowell and Pease are from the Berklee curriculum which I went through. 

http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/Departments/Composing-and-Film-Scoring/Arranging.aspx (http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/Depa ... nging.aspx)

The Dick Grove book is still considered a classic by many.

Here are a few tips for you, though.

1. Pick out an arrangement based on a widely known pop song to start.

2. Work out the form of the song, then the form of the arrangement.

3. Write down in prose statements what happens at each section in the form so you can see how the instrumentation builds.

4. On six staves, 2 lines for the piano, 1 line for the bass, then 1 line each for the tpts, bones, saxes.

5. Get the bass line and the melody down first. Then write down the counterlines for each section. Once you've done this you're now seeing the "counterpoint" of the arrangement with the melody and bass line highlighted. In short - 2-part counterpoint. 

6. Now go back and work out the voicings.

HTH

PA


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## Eric (Feb 28, 2013)

Here's some generalizations....

A big band is an orchestra. You've got 4 sections: trumpets, trombones, saxes, and rhythm.

trumpets: Your lead trumpet player is the top of your big chord melodies, considering his/her articulations and shakes will be essential to getting the ensemble sound you desire. However, you'll usually want to assign solos to your 2nd trumpet player. In both "traditional" and "modern (meaning 60's still to many college professors), it's often desirable to voice this 4 piece section in triads.

trombones: This is your low end. Writing for bass trombone can be fun. But watch out for dense voicings unless that's really the sound you're going for - the more open voicings should help keep you out of the mud. 4 piece section, lead trombones generally play the rare solos.

saxes: You've got 5 here, and they play pretty different roles. Your lead alto player sits in the middle - assign him/her the top note of your sax voicing. Lead alto is one of the most important chairs in your band, but sax solos are more often than not the domain of both tenor players - still, it's not uncommon for either alto to solo either. Bari sax can also be lots of fun to write for, that's your low voice for this section. 5 note chords can work great here, as can 4 noters with lead alto & bari playing an octave apart. Sax solis can also be fun - lead alto plays a soloistic melody, with the other 4 voicing a different chord behind him/her with each note. Saxes are also your most versatile sections - you can feel free to have them switch to flutes or clarinets in the middle of the composition if you like.

rhythm: Back in Count Basie's time, guitar played an essential role in the rhythm section, but not so much today. Typically write chords with melodic cues for piano, chord changes and essential notes for bass, as well as a specific chart for your drummer which highlights the "hits" - generally big chords voiced for the entire band that you'd like the drums to accentuate.

For writing style, you can think of Sammy Nestco as jazz's version of Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys. Mostly triads and diatonic movement. Thad Jones represents the "modern" (again, if the '60's are to be still considered modern today). You can think of him kind of like the vocal group Take 6 - lots of "upper structure" harmonies (where your trumpets still spell out triads, but your lower voices define these with alterior 3rds & 7ths). For example, a typical final chord for a big band of that era might be C7 #11. If your lower voices provide your C E & Bb (leave out the 5th), your trumpets can play a D triad, which provides your extentions (natural 9, #11, and natural 13).

Good luck and enjoy!!!


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