# Best online courses for composing?



## Hanu_H (Aug 7, 2017)

Hi guys.

I would like to take my composing to the next level. I have done basic theory lessons years ago and have also studied briefly under a classical composer here in Finland, but it's not option anymore. I know this has been discussed a lot here, but now I see new online courses coming every month and it's getting hard to choose which one is for me. I would like the course to focus on composing, not on the orchestration. Orchestration is of course a big part of composition but now I would like to focus on composing solid pieces first. I would like to learn how to compose classical music and thematic scoring, I already have quite good understanding of trailer/epic music. All advices warmly welcomed.

-Hannes


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## Quasar (Aug 7, 2017)

There's a lot out there, and it can be hard to sort through, especially if you're (like me) neither a beginner nor a master. Anywhere in between and it can be difficult to gauge whether a course is going to speak to one's proficiency level. I would be interested in hearing more experienced thoughts on this too.

I did get Mike Verta's Composition 1 & 2 instructional videos (as well as Orchestration 1 & 2), and I think they're quite good. Though he does seem to center his references around film scoring (which I'm not interested in per se), what he presents is fundamental to music more generally, and can be applied universally IMO.


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## Hanu_H (Aug 7, 2017)

Quasar said:


> There's a lot out there, and it can be hard to sort through, especially if you're (like me) neither a beginner nor a master. Anywhere in between and it can be difficult to gauge whether a course is going to speak to one's proficiency level. I would be interested in hearing more experienced thoughts on this too.
> 
> I did get Mike Verta's Composition 1 & 2 instructional videos (as well as Orchestration 1 & 2), and I think they're quite good. Though he does seem to center his references around film scoring (which I'm not interested in per se), what he presents is fundamental to music more generally, and can be applied universally IMO.


I am with you 100%. I am not a beginner but can't really say that I am master either, so it's difficult to find the right course. I also bought some courses from Mike Verta, I enjoyed watching them but I would like get something more personal this time.

-Hannes


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## Farkle (Aug 7, 2017)

Hanu_H said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I would like to take my composing to the next level. I have done basic theory lessons years ago and have also studied briefly under a classical composer here in Finland, but it's not option anymore. I know this has been discussed a lot here, but now I see new online courses coming every month and it's getting hard to choose which one is for me. I would like the course to focus on composing, not on the orchestration. Orchestration is of course a big part of composition but now I would like to focus on composing solid pieces first. I would like to learn how to compose classical music and thematic scoring, I already have quite good understanding of trailer/epic music. All advices warmly welcomed.
> 
> -Hannes



You might want to look into the Equal Interval System.

www.theequalintervalsystem.com

Mike


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## MatFluor (Aug 7, 2017)

Alain Mayrand has also some nice Courses (I am a big fan of Orchestrating the line).

http://www.scoreclub.net


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## Hanu_H (Aug 8, 2017)

Farkle said:


> You might want to look into the Equal Interval System.
> 
> www.theequalintervalsystem.com
> 
> Mike


Hi Mike,

I've been interested in EIS for a long time. Can you tell me how much it costs for a year? Tried to find the price but could not find it...



MatFluor said:


> Alain Mayrand has also some nice Courses (I am a big fan of Orchestrating the line).
> 
> http://www.scoreclub.net



Hi Matthias,

I looked it up and I think Memorable melodies through motivic mastery and Modal Mastery would be great courses.


-Hannes


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## Puzzlefactory (Aug 8, 2017)

I keep having this pop up on my Facebook feed. Don't know if it's any good or not...

https://cinematiccomposing.com/


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## Paul T McGraw (Aug 8, 2017)

I have tried at least one course from each of these and they are at a minimum entertaining and often illuminating and inspiring.

Art of Composing
Scoreclub.net
Thinkspace Education
AlexanderPublishing.com

Once you get beyond the foundational skills of harmony and orchestration, the next steps are in my opinion
1) quality of the melodic ideas and motives,
2) counterpoint and voice leading
3) form and structure and
4) artistic merit, aesthetics.

Obviously, #4 is probably the most important, and also I do not think it can really be taught. Just my opinion.

Concerning #1 there are books and courses on writing melody, but I really enjoyed the course on Scoreclub.net the excellent Memorable Melodies through Motivic Mastery. I would very highly recommend that course. It is by far the best online course I have taken, and changed the way I think about melody.

For counterpoint and voice leading there is a lot of material available to support college courses in counterpoint. But once again I would recommend the Scoreclub.net course as having the advantage of both being succinct and practical.

For #3 the Art of Composing course on Sonata form is excellent and well worth the time.

Good luck. I look forward to hearing some of your compositions.


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## Farkle (Aug 8, 2017)

Hanu_H said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> I've been interested in EIS for a long time. Can you tell me how much it costs for a year? Tried to find the price but could not find it...
> 
> ...



EIS is taught by individual instructors, and it's a "per lesson" rate. Each instructor sets his own rate, but on average, each lesson costs about 100$. The first two books comprise 26 lessons. Most students do one lesson a week, so you can get through the first two books in about 6 months, and it should be about 2600$.

Also, FWIW, I also bought Orchestrating the Line, and found Alain Mayrand's style and content to be exceptional. He is a gifted composer, and a thoughtful instructor. Thumbs up to his content as well.

Mike


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## Hanu_H (Aug 8, 2017)

Farkle said:


> EIS is taught by individual instructors, and it's a "per lesson" rate. Each instructor sets his own rate, but on average, each lesson costs about 100$. The first two books comprise 26 lessons. Most students do one lesson a week, so you can get through the first two books in about 6 months, and it should be about 2600$.
> 
> Also, FWIW, I also bought Orchestrating the Line, and found Alain Mayrand's style and content to be exceptional. He is a gifted composer, and a thoughtful instructor. Thumbs up to his content as well.
> 
> Mike


Thanks Mike, I am thinking about doing 1 or 2 courses by Alain first to get my basics covered and then possibly go for EIS. 400$ a month is a lot of money and I want to make sure I am up for it.

Thanks everyone for your helpful answers.

-Hannes


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## Leandro Gardini (Aug 8, 2017)

One more for EIS!
There has never been so many options out there but with EIS you cannot go wrong.


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## Farkle (Aug 8, 2017)

Hanu_H said:


> Thanks Mike, I am thinking about doing 1 or 2 courses by Alain first to get my basics covered and then possibly go for EIS. 400$ a month is a lot of money and I want to make sure I am up for it.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your helpful answers.
> 
> -Hannes



Absolutely, Hannes. I mean, the best part about any learning, is you can scale to your investment. Dropping 100-200$ on a couple of MV masterclasses and Alain Mayrand's classes will give you a lot of strategy and education, and give you tons to develop your composing chops with.

EIS is incredibly deep and thorough, but it's basically a degree in composition. Takes most people 5 years to complete it, took me 8. Over 900 pages of content, plus one on one teaching. Great course, but it is not for everyone. But, man, the things you can do with it.... 

Mike


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## Aquatone (Aug 8, 2017)

Hannes,

You are right. There are many options, now. It does seem like there is a new course every week. We are fortunate to live in this time. I echo the sentiments about EIS. I will add that it is deep but very streamlined. For me, it was an investment in many ways that I will never regret and forever be thankful for.

You may have already done this but I find making a good old fashioned list of personal strengths, weaknesses, and goals I want to achieve no matter how weird is the best place to start. Beyond that, personally contact these courses and talk to them.

Matt


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## Ken Still (Aug 13, 2017)

Hanu_H said:


> Thanks Mike, I am thinking about doing 1 or 2 courses by Alain first to get my basics covered and then possibly go for EIS. 400$ a month is a lot of money and I want to make sure I am up for it.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your helpful answers.
> 
> -Hannes



Hi, Hannes,

I am currently studying EIS under Glenn Jordan. I am only doing 2 lessons a month, so the cost is only $200. Having a lesson every week is certainly not a requirement. If you are interested in EIS I would urge to contact Lilith Murphy using the email link on the website. She will put you in touch with a couple of teachers. Have a chat with them and see what would be possible. You might be pleasantly surprised.


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## Blackster (Oct 28, 2017)

Btw, sign up for free to http://musicintervaltheory.academy/m-i-t-a-magazine/ (M.I.T.A. Magazine) and you'll receive tons of information right away! :D


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## jononotbono (Oct 28, 2017)

Blackster said:


> Btw, sign up for free to http://musicintervaltheory.academy/m-i-t-a-magazine/ (M.I.T.A. Magazine) and you'll receive tons of information right away! :D



Thanks! Just signed up for it!


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## larry777 (Jan 28, 2018)

Hi what is the difference between EIS and M.I.T.A any expereinces any one ?


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## d.healey (Jan 28, 2018)

larry777 said:


> Hi what is the difference between EIS and M.I.T.A any expereinces any one ?


I don't know but M.I.T.A has two "Master Composers" so it's got to be good


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## MatFluor (Jan 28, 2018)

larry777 said:


> Hi what is the difference between EIS and M.I.T.A any expereinces any one ?



As far as I know, MITA is a "rearranged" and adjusted version of EIS. Both teachers are EIS graduates. The way I see it (without having atken the course), it really is a condensed, less deep form of EIS, aimed at Media composition, whereas EIS is the "full fledged thing" aimed at working composers of all genres.

I'm starting EIS next month, I decided for the big thing. Even though both are "proprietary" courses, you are not obliged to finish it, and especially with EIS, I value the 1-on-1 teaching/lesson to get the maximum out of it for me - since I already know my teacher well (and the teacher knows me and my composing)


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## larry777 (Jan 28, 2018)

Thanks for the answers, i am listening to some examples from eis students ( on the forum ) and what strikes me the most is that it seems to be very jazz oriented ( i already have a good jazz harmony knowledge ) , while i am looking for a more classical / / orchestra / soundtrack kind of knowledge, i am wrong ?


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## Blackster (Jan 28, 2018)

MatFluor said:


> As far as I know, MITA is a "rearranged" and adjusted version of EIS. Both teachers are EIS graduates. The way I see it (without having atken the course), it really is a condensed, less deep form of EIS, aimed at Media composition, whereas EIS is the "full fledged thing" aimed at working composers of all genres.
> 
> I'm starting EIS next month, I decided for the big thing. Even though both are "proprietary" courses, you are not obliged to finish it, and especially with EIS, I value the 1-on-1 teaching/lesson to get the maximum out of it for me - since I already know my teacher well (and the teacher knows me and my composing)



Let me chime in as people don't really seem to know what MITA is! MITA is a complete course on its own that is not related to the other course in any case! Yes, my co-founder and myself are graduates of the other course but your statement about "the full fledged thing" is not true. You've admitted that you don't know what MITA is about, yet you do a comparison. And MITA offers 1-on-1 teaching, that's the only option how to learn MITA right now. 

So, I encourage EVERYBODY who wants to learn more about MITA to get in touch with me personally and I'll offer you a free 1-on-1 session on Skype showing you course materials, giving you in-depth information about WHY we did and HOW we compile lessons and so on. Of course, you are absolutely free to share your experience about MITA later here on VI-Control in public!  .... 

So, please send me a PM or an email and we'll arrange a meeting. But please understand that I won't give comparisons of MITA against other courses and so on (feels like you would ask CineSamples to comment on VSL) :D

So, please get in touch.


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## kurtvanzo (Jan 28, 2018)

Blackster said:


> Let me chime in as people don't really seem to know what MITA is! MITA is a complete course on its own that is not related to the other course in any case! Yes, my co-founder and myself are graduates of the other course but your statement about "the full fledged thing" is not true. You've admitted that you don't know what MITA is about, yet you do a comparison. And MITA offers 1-on-1 teaching, that's the only option how to learn MITA right now.
> 
> So, I encourage EVERYBODY who wants to learn more about MITA to get in touch with me personally and I'll offer you a free 1-on-1 session on Skype showing you course materials, giving you in-depth information about WHY we did and HOW we compile lessons and so on. Of course, you are absolutely free to share your experience about MITA later here on VI-Control in public!  ....
> 
> ...



It’s too bad you won’t explain what the course is. Kind of like the vaccuum guy that won’t explain what’s so great about his product until he comes to your house and throws dirt on your floor. I understand, the customer is more likely to commit if your talking directly to him. He has to turn you down to your face, so to speak, which is more difficult. But writing about how other people don’t know what it is yet not explaining it yourself is a bit of a jerky move, and doesn’t enamour me to contact you.

Tell us what the positives are about the course, or why you and your partner decided after taking other courses to make one of your own. Something that wasn’t covered? Something that you feel could be taught better? Some new ideas or teaching methods?

Giving us nothing except “contact me” is a bit like me saying I’ve got a great new instrument but you have to contact me to find out what it is and why it’s so great. I wouldn’t expect to hear anything back. But thanks for the mystery.


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## MatFluor (Jan 28, 2018)

Blackster said:


> Let me chime in as people don't really seem to know what MITA is! MITA is a complete course on its own that is not related to the other course in any case! Yes, my co-founder and myself are graduates of the other course but your statement about "the full fledged thing" is not true. You've admitted that you don't know what MITA is about, yet you do a comparison. And MITA offers 1-on-1 teaching, that's the only option how to learn MITA right now.



Thank you for the clarification!
Yes, I got by what I saw from MITA and the workshop videos, comparisons are hard anyway 

I wanted to add, that after some EIS I might show up at your door - maybe 

But an explanation what the difference is (hence giving a better insight, since you are an EIS graduate, therefore know both courses) would be very much appreciated!


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## Blackster (Jan 28, 2018)

kurtvanzo said:


> It’s too bad you won’t explain what the course is. Kind of like the vaccuum guy that won’t explain what’s so great about his product until he comes to your house and throws dirt on your floor. I understand, the customer is more likely to commit if your talking directly to him. He has to turn you down to your face, so to speak, which is more difficult. But writing about how other people don’t know what it is yet not explaining it yourself is a bit of a jerky move, and doesn’t enamour me to contact you.
> 
> Tell us what the positives are about the course, or why you and your partner decided after taking other courses to make one of your own. Something that wasn’t covered? Something that you feel could be taught better? Some new ideas or teaching methods?
> 
> Giving us nothing except “contact me” is a bit like me saying I’ve got a great new instrument but you have to contact me to find out what it is and why it’s so great. I wouldn’t expect to hear anything back. But thanks for the mystery.



Fair enough  I'm totally willing to give more information about MITA, that's totally fine. So, I'll take your questions as starting points if you don't mind:

1) MITA has been created because TC and I wanted to organize our musical ideas and ways to get things going. It is all based on practicality and efficiency. Especially TC, who has written music for hundreds of TV shows always had to work under pressure and very tough deadlines contributed so many great ideas to MITA that later became part of lessons (after we've tried it in real application). That is the next point: The course is not finished yet  ... although we have a finite number of ideas collected we are still working our way through them. So, how do we decide what becomes a lesson? - We talk about a musical device or tool . Then, both of us write a piece of music based mostly on that device, often times an orchestral piece. If we both agree that this concept led to great and inspiring musical ideas, it becomes a lesson. If (at least) one of us thinks that this is not good, we disregard that idea. 

2) MITA is completely based on composition and orchestration on a graduate level. That means that lessons are very big (between 20 and 50 pages each) and you get asked to write compositions as assignments right away. Although we cover voice-leading and traditional diatonic theory on an interval point of view, everything is designed to show you how to use that knowledge, NOT to give you that knowledge. In order to study voice-leading it is enough to pick up a book on amazonfor 20 bucks  

3) MITA explains how to use intervals and enhance the use of the Diatonic System. It is not meant to replace it or something. To my knowledge, these concepts are not being taught in any other course out there. We have a dedicated section (6 lessons) about line writing on scales, combining scales, changing scales, etc. .... the overall result is not diatonic anymore (neither horizontally, nor vertically) but you have full control over what you did because you are following guidelines while applying MITA concepts. This enables everybody to re-create ideas, expand on them or even replacing some of them to get to different results. It's all about having an overall methodology that lets you write in an organized way. 

4) Relation between concepts. That is really great because interval connections let you combine and change different musical concepts, even diatonic ones (like 6/4-movements, mediants, II-V-I, resolutions, etc. ...). Looking at intervals as opposed to concepts give you a more detailed grid where you can take control over things and change emotion in a more elegant way. Imagine having only a major triad for happy and a minor triad for sad. Not much control over emotion, right?  ... We can show you a hundred steps in between those emotions. This way you have much more control over what you wanna say emotionally and musically. 

5) The whole course is splitted into two major sections. The first 32 lessons are connections and branches that are directly connected to the Diatonic System. From lesson 33 on it is all about pure interval theory which can also be used to connect to other diatonic devices but it is really more like focusing only on intervals. We are calling this second section the "TNO series" which means "The Nature of ... - Series". This is dedicated to explain each interval separately and then also interval combinations. And this second part is not finished yet, I'm writing on Lesson 44 right now  ...

To summarize, you need to have a good and solid understanding of music theory before diving into MITA (to really get the most out of it). MITA is not a secret organization or myth  ... there are no secrets as long as you are willing to put in the work - that is true for everything in life, of course. 

And here is even a musical example that I wrote for Lesson 41 which deals with scaling of interval combinations. The track "Good Night, Little Fellow" shows a major triad that has been scaled by the factor x2. So, let's describe a major triad as 4+3 (when you count the chromatic steps from bottom to top). After scaling, it is 8+6. This are the only structures that I've used in that piece. And to give you an idea how much time it took me to do this: This was done in 15-20 minutes, including the mock-up, of course. 

I hope this was helpful and cleared up some of the mystery! :D ...


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## Blackster (Jan 28, 2018)

MatFluor said:


> Thank you for the clarification!
> Yes, I got by what I saw from MITA and the workshop videos, comparisons are hard anyway
> 
> I wanted to add, that after some EIS I might show up at your door - maybe
> ...



Whenever I can be of any help, please contact me!


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## DANIELE (Feb 11, 2018)

Lately I've been looking for orchestration courses because I need to train well on the subject. Looking at scoreclub.net I'm thinking about buying "Orchestrating the Line" and I see these pre requisites:

Music rudiments
Knowledge of notation and reading
Basic harmony and part writing (like Essential Composer here)
Orchestration textbook or course
I think I have the first three but what about the last one? Do I need to have some orchestration textbook to follow this course?

I have orchestration textbooks but I don't have time to deeply study them so I'm going for video courses. So, could somenone explain what this pre requisite means?


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## d.healey (Feb 11, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> Lately I've been looking for orchestration courses because I need to train well on the subject. Looking at scoreclub.net I'm thinking about buying "Orchestrating the Line" and I see these pre requisites:
> 
> Music rudiments
> Knowledge of notation and reading
> ...


No you don't need a textbook but if you did I would recommend the classic Rimsky Korsakov text here - http://northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration-On-line

Also, get Orchestrating the Line 2 as well, it builds on OTL1.


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## jononotbono (Feb 11, 2018)

d.healey said:


> No you don't need a textbook but if you did I would recommend the classic Rimsky Korsakov text here - http://northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration-On-line
> 
> Also, get Orchestrating the Line 2 as well, it builds on OTL1.



Thanks for sharing this. I’m gonna get stuck in with it!


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## DANIELE (Feb 11, 2018)

d.healey said:


> No you don't need a textbook but if you did I would recommend the classic Rimsky Korsakov text here - http://northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration-On-line
> 
> Also, get Orchestrating the Line 2 as well, it builds on OTL1.



Thank you for the link and thank you for the answer.

I'll buy OTL2 for sure, I'll do it after finishing the first one. Do you know if those courses go on sale?


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## d.healey (Feb 11, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> Thank you for the link and thank you for the answer.
> 
> I'll buy OTL2 for sure, I'll do it after finishing the first one. Do you know if those courses go on sale?


I know each course is on sale when first released but I can't remember if there have been any other sales.


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## Desire Inspires (Feb 11, 2018)

https://courses.evenant.com/p/the-aspiring-trailer-music-composer


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## Blackster (Feb 12, 2018)

I'm also a big fan of OTL! Have taken the first course and it is really really useful! Not sure about OTL2 but I would expect great quality from that as well!


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## fixxer49 (Feb 13, 2018)

Desire Inspires said:


> https://courses.evenant.com/p/the-aspiring-trailer-music-composer


 the OP already said in his very first post: " I would like to learn how to compose classical music and thematic scoring, *I already have quite good understanding of trailer/epic music.*"


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## ThomasNL (Mar 9, 2018)

Hey is it me or is the northensounds website offline? anyone knows if it will get back online?


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