# Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread



## NoamL

The new library is strings! https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-appassionata-strings/

*Hype and chatter *on pages 1-18

*Release day discussion* starts on page 18


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## Robert_G

New library after new library and yet people still seem so shocked as to to why the Spitfire player never gets fixed.


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## mussnig

Theremin at Air Lyndhurst? Maybe @Tatiana Gordeeva knows more about this?


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## Jeremy Spencer

Robert_G said:


> New library after new library and yet people still seem so shocked as to to why the Spitfire player never gets fixed.


Fixed? Mine works great, no issues.


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## NoamL

Robert_G said:


> New library after new library and yet people still seem so shocked as to to why the Spitfire player never gets fixed.


What issues are you having with it?


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## Robert_G

There are 100s of posts about it. I dont need to repeat them.


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## muziksculp

That's Air Studios. Lindherst Hall. So it's most likely a Large Section, Epic sounding Orchestral Library. or .... .. ?


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## OHjorth

A cello?


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## Getsumen

Well I guess any Loki watchers know what this library is. (Which wouldn't be me lol)


mussnig said:


> Theremin at Air Lyndhurst? Maybe @Tatiana Gordeeva knows more about this?


Did Loki use a theramin? Interesting lib for Spitfire to put out actually. Interesting


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## KEM

The Loki poster is the only thing that caught my attention, but in the end it’ll probably be something I couldn’t care less about


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## muziksculp

I'm still very excited about the release of Abbey Road-1 Modular Orchestra this year. 

But this is not it.


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## Zanshin

The Loki soundtrack is fantastic.


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## muziksculp

Zanshin said:


> The Loki soundtrack is fantastic.


Natalie Holt


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## CT

I'll take eight!


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## NoamL

muziksculp said:


> That's Air Studios. Lindherst Hall. So it's most likely a Large Section, Epic sounding Orchestral Library. or .... .. ?


Good catch, seems like they are going back to AIR for this one.

The clef is an alto (violas) not tenor clef (cellos & trombones sometimes read it).


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## muziksculp

Heroic Epic Violas


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## Jeremy Spencer

Robert_G said:


> There are 100s of posts about it. I dont need to repeat them.


Those were feature requests, it works just fine.


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## KEM

I’m about to listen to the Loki score


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## labyrinths

NoamL said:


> The clef is an alto (violas)


I've got it! They're the missing violas from Cinematic Frozen Strings.


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## muziksculp

labyrinths said:


> I've got it! They're the missing violas from Cinematic Frozen Strings.


Yup.. They just defrosted them, and they are very upset to be left out from participating in The Frozen Strings library. Watch out.. The Violas can get very aggressive.


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## Baronvonheadless

Violent Violas!


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## muziksculp

Revenge or the Violas !


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## Mornats

Spitfire product announcements are guaranteed to spawn two responses:

1. They shouldn't release anything new until they fix [insert random product here].
2. I came here just to say I'm not interested.


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## KEM

Mornats said:


> Spitfire product announcements are guaranteed to spawn two responses:
> 
> 1. They shouldn't release anything new until they fix [insert random product here].
> 2. I came here just to say I'm not interested.



I, for one, am both lol


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## mussnig

Getsumen said:


> Well I guess any Loki watchers know what this library is. (Which wouldn't be me lol)
> 
> Did Loki use a theramin? Interesting lib for Spitfire to put out actually. Interesting


Yep, the theme of the series features a Theremin and Spitfire haven't done that yet, afaik (would have been a great addition to BHCT though).

But there are also things like a nyckelharpa.


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## ism

Mornats said:


> Spitfire product announcements are guaranteed to spawn two responses:
> 
> 1. They shouldn't release anything new until they fix [insert random product here].
> 2. I came here just to say I'm not interested.



Ever wonder if there's a similar group of people who are as diligent in seeking out every, say, jazz trumpet thread, just to state emphatically how much they don't care about jazz trumpet. And how this jazz trumpet is just not for them. And how disappointed they are that said jazz trumpet making company can't focus on, say, more fff trombones instead of all these jazz trumpets? Because fff trombones, now there's something that the world just doesn't have enough of.


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## ALittleNightMusic

I like that they’re continuing to branch out.

And the player works great (needs purging but they are working on that). Same 3 people complain in every Spitfire thread though - maybe they should fix their systems.


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## Alchemedia

Baronvonheadless said:


> Violent Violas!


Say fear is a man's best friend.


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## Trevor Meier

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Those were feature requests, it works just fine.


Not only. For example, BBCSO 1.5.0 requires you to open the GUI and hit refresh to get sound about 1/3rd of the time. Plus needing to repair libraries about every month or two… etc etc


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## ALittleNightMusic

Trevor Meier said:


> Not only. For example, BBCSO 1.5.0 requires you to open the GUI and hit refresh to get sound about 1/3rd of the time. Plus needing to repair libraries about every month or two… etc etc


I've never had to do that with the 1.5 update. Or ever repair the library in over 12 months of owning it. But then again, I don't mess with moving the library around or changing drive permissions or whatever some folks do.


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## SupremeFist

Add-on pack for AROOF featuring low violas doubled with alto voices 8va, soaring legato, total range 7 semitones.


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## muziksculp

SupremeFist said:


> Add-on pack for AROOF featuring low violas doubled with alto voices 8va, soaring legato, total range 7 semitones.


It's not in Abbey Road 1.

It's in Air .


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## Bluemount Score

muziksculp said:


> It's in Air .


Love?


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## Pappaus

Orchestral Tools will have any of three response:

1. They should fix the Sine Player
2. I love the Sine Player
3. Too Expensive. - When will the next sale be?


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## Trevor Meier

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I've never had to do that with the 1.5 update. Or ever repair the library in over 12 months of owning it. But then again, I don't mess with moving the library around or changing drive permissions or whatever some folks do.


Neither do I. Glad you’ve had a good experience with it.


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## Simeon

liquidlino said:


> well, Simeon just liked my post... and I suspect he's on the inside track with knowledge.... so how's the new Albion Marvel library Simeon? Does it work well with Unify?


Well, no special TVA privileges here, I am guessing along with all of you. I agree with the idea that a Theremin could be a part of the new release, as it was featured so prominently on the Loki soundtrack.
As far as UNiFY, I only remember John mentioning something about wanting the weather to get a little warmer so he could break out the jet ski. 😎

For All Time. Always!


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## rotho

Finally it’s a purely viola library recognising that it is actually the coolest most edgy string instrument after all. 

Sigh.. that recognition could only happen in a parallel universe… like Loki…


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## Justin L. Franks

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I've never had to do that with the 1.5 update. Or ever repair the library in over 12 months of owning it. But then again, I don't mess with moving the library around or changing drive permissions or whatever some folks do.


I've moved my Spitfire player libraries many times (I constantly rearrange which libraries go on each of my external SSDs since some are faster than others), and never had a single issue with the plugin. Also didn't have any issues when moving libraries on external SSDs to a new machine, when my iMac needed a logic board replaced under warranty. I just followed Spitfire's instructions.

But I am on a Mac, and Spitfire definitely seems to be more focused on Macs than PCs.


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## sheen

NoamL said:


> Here it comes...



...I don't tweet, someone else can take this

....(RaVen) String Quartet...


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## Batrawi




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## TomislavEP

My guess is Albion Colossus. Dave the Colossus and company re-amped and recaptured in Lyndhurst Hall...


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## sheen

...or a Nathalie Holt Collaboration..


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## FrozenIcicle

Guessing game = engagement. Spitfire marketing probably


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## Jotto

EPIC FILMSCORE BRASS


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## Evans

Such a lack of respect by Spitfire for the crowd that prefers immediate gratification.


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## holywilly

Aren’t we had enough from AIR? I’m expecting more from Abbey Road.


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## RogiervG

holywilly said:


> Aren’t we had enough from AIR? I’m expecting more from Abbey Road.


No and yes 
They can both exist and developed with.. Air line and AR line..

I guess the AR line is only AROOF, Strings from studio 2 and modular orchestra
Air is still their favorite studio location it appears.


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## Justin L. Franks

TomislavEP said:


> My guess is Albion Colossus. Dave the Colossus and company re-amped and recaptured in Lyndhurst Hall...


That's Aperture: The Stack...


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## Jeremy Spencer

Trevor Meier said:


> Not only. For example, BBCSO 1.5.0 requires you to open the GUI and hit refresh to get sound about 1/3rd of the time. Plus needing to repair libraries about every month or two… etc etc


Strange indeed, I'm on the latest version. Never an issue since the BBCSO release (I'm on Mac).


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## TomislavEP

Justin L. Franks said:


> That's Aperture: The Stack...


Ooops, sorry, my bad... I thought that "The Stack" is a strictly guitar-based library. Frankly, I've stopped the announcement video shortly after the shot of the guitar amps wall..


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## from_theashes

TomislavEP said:


> Ooops, sorry, my bad... I thought that "The Stack" is a strictly guitar-based library. Frankly, I've stopped the announcement video shortly after the shot of the guitar amps wall..


Nope… it’s Dave (and some other HW-synths) through a massive wall of guitar- and bass- amps captured in Air.


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## szczaw

A collaboration with Loki in Lyndhurst ?


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## Saxer

Theremin Flautando


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## Vik

sheen said:


> Nathalie Holt Collaboration


Sure. She composed the music to Loki, and is a viola player.
Viola is one my my absolute favorite instruments. Nevertheless: it's a new year, so it's time to share some viola jokes again:









Vacuum cleaner


What's the difference between a viola and a vacuum cleaner? A vacuum cleaner has to be plugged in before it sucks.




www.classicfm.com


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## Bee_Abney

It is, I am very sure, Tom Hiddlestone’s voice morphed with a theremin and recorded through a stack of guitar amps, one of which was defenestrated whilst recording.

Some articulations include phrases:
‘I love you’
‘I never liked Taylor Swift’
‘You’re beautiful where it counts. On the outside’


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## Raphioli

Massive section of violas sampled from the edge of silence

Edit:BTW, the legato better be good because they specifically used a motif with legato in it as a hint


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## Bee_Abney

Raphioli said:


> Massive section of violas sampled from the edge of silence


The best viola library: sampled on the other side of silence.

(I love violas really...)


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## JTB

It's all a bit of fun I know. But next time SF do this, we should kindly allow the thread to die quickly. Engaging in threads like this, my post included, keeps '*SPITFIRE JANUARY LIBRARY*' at the top of the latest posts list.


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## Bee_Abney

JTB said:


> It's all a bit of fun I know. But next time SF do this, we should kindly allow the thread to die quickly. Engaging in threads like this, my post included, keeps '*SPITFIRE JANUARY LIBRARY*' at the top of the latest posts list.


Bump.


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## liquidlino

Bee_Abney said:


> Bump.


Unpopular opinion. Spitfire make great products and their marketing is fun and keeps the industry interesting.


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## TomislavEP

I'm not really into these "little games", but after my earlier slip up in this thread, I'm now thinking they're perhaps cooking a new version of Iceni. After exploring the edges of silence to the very edges, it is only logical to expect them to go in the opposite direction. And Iceni is one of a few older titles which they still didn't put to pasture or "originalized".


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## Alex Fraser

“Most anticipated library yet…”
But how would they know..? 🧐😅


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## ALittleNightMusic

Alex Fraser said:


> “Most anticipated library yet…”
> But how would they know..? 🧐😅


They asked Paul - and he was very excited.


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## muziksculp

Looks like they have finally perfected their Flautandos, 15 years later ! ... Paul looks seriously excited.


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## Alex Fraser

Well, the tweet caught my eye enough to do a quick dive on the Loki score.
The wiki contains the following:


> Clock sounds were included since the concept of time was central to the series


So that settles it, really. Spitfire Symphonic Clocks. You're welcome.


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## tjr

liquidlino said:


> Unpopular opinion. Spitfire make great products and their marketing is fun and keeps the industry interesting.


I agree.


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## Bee_Abney

Alex Fraser said:


> Well, the tweet caught my eye enough to do a quick dive on the Loki score.
> The wiki contains the following:
> 
> So that settles it, really. Spitfire Symphonic Clocks. You're welcome.


At long last! Not many have been anticipating it; but those who have have been doing a lot of it.


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## KEM

Alex Fraser said:


> “Most anticipated library yet…”
> But how would they know..? 🧐😅




They better be returning to Air for Hans Zimmer Brass


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## ism

muziksculp said:


> Looks like they have finally perfected their Flautandos, 15 years later ! ... Paul looks seriously excited.


Please let this be true!


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## el-bo

Alex Fraser said:


> So that settles it, really. Spitfire Symphonic Clocks. You're welcome.


Simpsons (I mean, 8Dio) already did it:









Clocks


Clocks. Tick. Tock. Kontakt VST / AU / AAX. Includes 780 Unique Clock Samples. Clocks is a Percussive Tool For Driving Motion & Rhythm Including Stop Watches, Egg Timers, Wrist Watches, Grand Father Clocks and hundreds of other unique tick-tocky sound sources.




8dio.com


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## Bee_Abney

el-bo said:


> Simpsons (I mean, 8Dio) already did it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clocks
> 
> 
> Clocks. Tick. Tock. Kontakt VST / AU / AAX. Includes 780 Unique Clock Samples. Clocks is a Percussive Tool For Driving Motion & Rhythm Including Stop Watches, Egg Timers, Wrist Watches, Grand Father Clocks and hundreds of other unique tick-tocky sound sources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8dio.com


It was their finest hour.



It’s alright, I’m going...


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## el-bo

KEM said:


> They better be returning to Air for Hans Zimmer Brass


Yup! And they've already chosen their first Alpha-tester


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## el-bo

Bee_Abney said:


> It’s alright, I’m gong...


FTFY


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## labyrinths

I just finished building a template around my AIR libraries so I'm at least a little bit very excited.


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## Zanshin

KEM said:


> They better be returning to Air for Hans Zimmer Brass


I’d love any new HZ Air library, doesn’t have to be brass even. HZ Woodwinds? Yes! HZ Ethnic Instruments? Sure. HZ Choirs? Oh fuck yeah!


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## KEM

Zanshin said:


> I’d love any new HZ Air library, doesn’t have to be brass even. HZ Woodwinds? Yes! HZ Ethnic Instruments? Sure. HZ Choirs? Oh fuck yeah!



Honestly same, put his name on it and I’m in


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## KEM

el-bo said:


> Yup! And they've already chosen their first Alpha-tester



At least we know it’ll have good quality control!!


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## NoamL

JTB said:


> It's all a bit of fun I know. But next time SF do this, we should kindly allow the thread to die quickly. Engaging in threads like this, my post included, keeps '*SPITFIRE JANUARY LIBRARY*' at the top of the latest posts list.


I'll re-title the thread once the library comes out and this can be the sample talk thread, perhaps?

It does seem like it's coming out soon since they gave a 2nd social media push.


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## el-bo

KEM said:


> At least we know it’ll have good quality control!!


Perhaps... Although, In all seriousness, I can't fathom how crazy it must be trying to keep on top of that many samples. I can barely housekeep my own relatively-small stash.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau

« 15 years in the making »... I don’t know if they’ve been making hyperboles for 15 years but they are definitely experts at this too  Mission accomplished, I’m very curious!


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## muziksculp

" 15 Years in the making " 

Hmmm... I'm very skeptical about that statement.


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## Sarah Mancuso

Spitfire Chamber Strings 2?


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## ism

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Spitfire Chamber Strings 2?


Please let this be true. Also.


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## muziksculp

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Spitfire Chamber Strings 2?


Now that would be awesome 

But 15 years in the making ? If that's a fact, it should be their best sounding strings library.


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## Drundfunk

KEM said:


> They better be returning to Air for Hans Zimmer Brass


I mean, that's Alan Meyerson sitting there at the mix console, right? So it definitely could be possible.

Edit: On second thought, maybe it isn't Alan Meyerson but Jake Jackson


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## Vik

'15 years in the making' is referring to back when they started Spitfire and most likely only created bespoke libraries (and maybe started to work on the first Albion?). Maybe they did stuff without Kontakt back then, and that the 'innovation' refers to something they may have patented later, since it's an innovation... Evo Grid? Swarm? Their own player?

Maybe it's a major update to their own player, which adds new options – like eg. changes some of us (well, I) have been missing for a long time: truly playable evolutions, which don't force us to play notes from the beginning – and/or or ways to jump from one pitch inside an evo or 'arc' to another pitch – in the middle of a legato phrase?

That would revolutionize how we work with arcs and evolutions.

Example: Record a * seconds long arc/evo, and allow users to play this arc in a way which, when we play a new legato note, will jump to the same spot in another evo/arc but with the pitch of the new note. I just came across a couple of Ben Osterhouse libraries – Oscillation Strings and Sospiro Strings – which offer functionality like that (to some degree) within Kontakt.

If there's something that the Spitfire team itself would consider their own most anticipated library, nothing would iMO be more game changing, IMHO, than ways to play through long arcs or evos, using different pitches, but with an end result sounding as if these melodic lines were played that way.

If it's not that, SF team, please consider this a feature request!


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## ism

Vik said:


> and/or or ways to jump from one pitch inside an evo or 'arc' to another pitch – in the middle of a legato phrase?
> 
> That would revolutionize how we work with arcs and evolutions.



Check out how beautifully LSCS does something like this.

How great would it be if SCS could be upgraded with something similar.


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## Alex Fraser

I think the Loki tease is a slight red herring at this point?
The Air Studios website lists it as a project recorded on site, here:








Selected Projects - AIR Studios


Discover our award-winning portfolio




www.airstudios.com





We can probably expect more movie posters taken from that page in the coming days. 
All bets are off? _<Rings hype bell..>_


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## Bee_Abney

ism said:


> Check out how beautifully LSCS does something like this.
> 
> How great would it be if SCS could be upgraded with something similar.



These ones that are 50% off right now? https://www.lightandsoundsamples.com/chamberstrings.html


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## CT

_A library 65 million years in the making._


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## Alex Fraser

More left field thoughts..






Is that an old pic? Looks like it's styled to be historical.

PT has been sporting a beard for a while now. ⬆️ kind of looks like a younger, cleaner shaved gent?
Also, no masks = pre covid?

Would chime with the entire "15 years in the making" thing. Maybe it's not new recordings. Or maybe it's just to emphasise the history angle.

Someone stop me before I start google-diving to work out the vintage of those Macs..


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## ism

Bee_Abney said:


> These ones that are 50% off right now? https://www.lightandsoundsamples.com/chamberstrings.html


Yep. And the arcs, with the legato are just gorgeous.

(Here's a WIP that attempts to really lean into the effect of the arc + legato:


View attachment LSCS - WIP - ism.mp3

)


OT has a fragments of this capacity, for instance when you turn on the legato on portato or swells. And Sarah's Adachi adds something also similar to Adagio via in rescripting the arcs. Although neither are as fully realized the LSCS in the way the legato works with the arcs.

Meanwhile, the arcs (waves) in OACE are were just entirely a revelation.

So here's hoping that there something like this with the sound of OACE / SCS / Neo / Tundra etc is in on the horizon. That would be amazing.


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## ism

Alex Fraser said:


> More left field thoughts..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an old pic? Looks like it's styled to be historical.
> 
> PT has been sporting a beard for a while now. ⬆️ kind of looks like a younger, cleaner shaved gent?
> Also, no masks = pre covid?
> 
> Would chime with the entire "15 years in the making" thing. Maybe it's not new recordings. Or maybe it's just to emphasise the history angle.
> 
> Someone stop me before I start google-diving to work out the vintage of those Macs..


SF started ~15 year ago with, more or less, what became SCS, which then evolved into 4 different volumes, then SCS, then SCS Pro. 

So "15 years in the making" might be taken at least a sort of literally if it turns out to be further volume of SCS. (Which was Sarah's point above I believe).


----------



## Bee_Abney

ism said:


> Yep. And the arcs, with the legato are just gorgeous.
> 
> (Here's a WIP that attempts to really lean into the effect of the arc + legato:
> 
> 
> View attachment LSCS - WIP - ism.mp3
> 
> )
> 
> 
> OT has a fragments of this capacity, for instance when you turn on the legato on portato or swells. And Sarah's Adachi adds something also similar to Adagio via in rescripting the arcs. Although neither are as fully realized as the LSCS in the way the legato works with the arcs.
> 
> Meanwhile, the arcs (waves) in OACE are were just entirely a revelation.
> 
> So here's hoping that there something like this with the sound of OACE / SCS / Neo / Tundra etc is in on the horizon. That would be amazing.


Wonderful! That would be something to celebrate.


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## rocking.xmas.man

You‘re all wrong, it’s going to be an announcement of their subscription. Obviously.
😅


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## Alex Fraser

rocking.xmas.man said:


> You‘re all wrong, it’s going to be an announcement of their subscription. Obviously.
> 😅


Did it really take until page 5 for someone to say the "S" word? Growth!


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## Fever Phoenix

I d'love a new Albion 

or more SCS 


..bring it on!


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## lucianogiacomozzi

rocking.xmas.man said:


> You‘re all wrong, it’s going to be an announcement of their subscription. Obviously.
> 😅


There is a job going for a SaaS Product Manager, to “help create and define a subscription-based product”…






Product Manager (Saas)


Spitfire are recruiting a full-time Product Manager (Saas) position.




www.spitfireaudio.com


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## muziksculp

lucianogiacomozzi said:


> There is a job going for a SaaS Product Manager, to “help create and define a subscription-based product”…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Product Manager (Saas)
> 
> 
> Spitfire are recruiting a full-time Product Manager (Saas) position.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spitfireaudio.com


And that position was open for the last 15 years, and no one has been qualified yet ?


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## KEM

Drundfunk said:


> I mean, that's Alan Meyerson sitting there at the mix console, right? So it definitely could be possible.
> 
> Edit: On second thought, maybe it isn't Alan Meyerson but Jake Jackson



My first thought was Alan Meyerson as well, but I didn’t wanna say that and look like an idiot when I’d inevitably be proven wrong lol, but it definitely looks like Alan which lead me to believe it’s HZ Brass (a man can dream…)


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## jbuhler

KEM said:


> My first thought was Alan Meyerson as well, but I didn’t wanna say that and look like an idiot when I’d inevitably be proven wrong lol, but it definitely looks like Alan which lead me to believe it’s HZ Brass (a man can dream…)


So alto clef is for alto trombone?


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## KEM

jbuhler said:


> So alto clef is for alto trombone?



Something along those lines, yeah

“Innovation” or whatever they say…


----------



## liquidlino

KEM said:


> Something along those lines, yeah
> 
> “Innovation” or whatever they say…


It's 60 trombones. But because of COVID, there's no players, just the trombones resting on chairs, and it's literally recorded "beyond the edge of silence". Truly edgy stuff for the next generation of composers.


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## Drundfunk

KEM said:


> [...] but I didn’t wanna say that and look like an idiot when I’d inevitably be proven wrong lol [...]


Thanks I guess....


----------



## KEM

Drundfunk said:


> Thanks I guess....



Don’t worry we’re both taking the fall now


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## prodigalson

KEM said:


> My first thought was Alan Meyerson as well, but I didn’t wanna say that and look like an idiot when I’d inevitably be proven wrong lol, but it definitely looks like Alan which lead me to believe it’s HZ Brass (a man can dream…)


It's Jake Jackson. Also, check out the guy in the cargo shorts and flip flops in the back left...this pic was not taken in the last 10 years...


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## Inventio

A library of violas, alto trombones and contralti playing 0,1,7 pitch ostinatos, with all the usual transformations and rotations, in a variety of other-worldly articulations.


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## KEM

prodigalson said:


> It's Jake Jackson. Also, check out the guy in the cargo shorts and flip flops in the back left...this pic was not taken in the last 10 years...



You say that, but I sadly see many people in the Midwest still wear cargo shorts, flip flops, and Hollister shirts…


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## mybadmemory

I would love it if they BBCSO-ified SSO with Core and Pro all-in-ones, to make it more accessible to a wider range of people before starting to release the AR modular orchestra that might replace it later this year!

I don’t think that’s it though!


----------



## Alex Fraser

mybadmemory said:


> I would love it if they BBCSO-ified SSS with Core and Pro all-in-ones, to make it more accessible to a wider range of people before starting to release the AR modular orchestra that might replace it later this year!
> 
> I don’t think that’s it though!


😊 I’ve been suggesting this for a while. Some sort of SSO band-in-the-box lite special edition. Aimed at the BBCSO crowd.

This latest Spirfire tease smells a bit like that to be honest, but I’m sure if I suggested it again, I’d get eye rolls in reply. So I won’t. 😅


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## Henu

KEM said:


> cargo shorts


Any day from april to october, thank you. Black.

(In fact, I just realized I'm actually wearing those even in my profile picture here. Proves the point!)


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## Alex Fraser

Henu said:


> Any day from april to october, thank you. Black.
> 
> (In fact, I just realized I'm actually wearing those even in my profile picture here. Proves the point!)


Same. Once you’ve “committed” to wearing shorts, you must see it through until October. That’s the rule.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

Alex Fraser said:


> 😊 I’ve been suggesting this for a while. Some sort of SSO band-in-the-box lite special edition. Aimed at the BBCSO crowd.
> 
> This latest Spirfire tease smells a bit like that to be honest, but I’m sure if I suggested it again, I’d get eye rolls in reply. So I won’t. 😅


Not rolling eyes at all, but what might speak against this is the fact that they had a huge SSO campaign in Spring 2021, so I doubt that it will be something along these lines again.

..then again, who knows with Spitfire 🤷‍♂️

They certainly are creating a buzz every time!


----------



## el-bo

Alex Fraser said:


> Same. Once you’ve “committed” to wearing shorts, you must see it through until October. That’s the rule.


Wimps! The pair of ya. I've been in nothing more than shorts and t-shirts, for 4 years - January to January


----------



## KEM

Henu said:


> Any day from april to october, thank you. Black.
> 
> (In fact, I just realized I'm actually wearing those even in my profile picture here. Proves the point!)



I wear ripped up black jeans and ripped up Slipknot shirts all year, never change


----------



## easyrider

Albion Colossus


----------



## icecoolpool

Their "most anticipated library yet" that´s been 15 years in the making?

A remastered expanded version of their bespoke libraries available, for the first time, for public consumption would fit that description. However:

1) They said they´d never do it (Paul Thomson was clear about this in 2019: "The samples will never be commercially released - that was the agreement with the players and with the licensees.")
2) I´m not sure what that would have to do with Loki specifically

A theremin recorded in Lyndhurst Hall would fit the pictoral descriptions but would surely be more of a "curiosity" rather than a highly anticipated release 15 years in the making. With all that in mind, I suppose a new Albion for Epic Hybrid Cinematic Music will be the release.

For those who have never heard the Bespoke Trumpet before: https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/sf_bond-mp3.20018/ https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/sf_trumpet3_wip-mp3.20019/ (uploaded by @JGRaynaud)


----------



## rottoy

icecoolpool said:


> For those who have never heard the Bespoke Trumpet before: https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/sf_bond-mp3.20018/ https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/sf_trumpet3_wip-mp3.20019/ (uploaded by @JGRaynaud)


Which is a sampling of this late legend. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Murphy_(musician)


----------



## Alex Fraser

I really do think the Loki link is a red herring at this point? Perhaps it was just used in the teaser as a modern example of "something recorded at Air." Could even have been a quick screen grab by a Spitfire marketing intern that we've spent 7 pages over-analysing. 😂

Lyndhurst and Spitfire's history with the place is the hero tease I think.


----------



## Inventio

A new authorization system, iLoki... A cloud service in Asgard. Super safe. 

Though on second thought I don't know if I would give my licenses to Loki...


----------



## Raphioli

My take on "Loki".
Maybe its meant to mean, "Low Key" ?

Ok sorry, I'll see myself out.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Inventio said:


> A new authorization system, iLoki... A cloud service in Asgard. Super safe.
> 
> Though on second thought I don't know if I would give my licenses to Loki...


And Asgard has been known to have the odd security breach. Plus, the foundations are gone.


----------



## Vik

icecoolpool said:


> Their "most anticipated library yet" that´s been 15 years in the making?
> 
> A remastered expanded version of their bespoke libraries available, for the first time, for public consumption would fit that description. However:
> 
> 1) They said they´d never do it (Paul Thomson was clear about this in 2019: "The samples will never be commercially released - that was the agreement with the players and with the licensees.")


The recordings they'll release aren't 15 years old/the library isn't, and not even the innovation is 15 years old, but the innovation has been '15 years in the making'.


----------



## Michel Simons

el-bo said:


> Wimps! The pair of ya. I've been in nothing more than shorts and t-shirts, for 4 years - January to January


You must be English.


----------



## ka00

Alex Fraser said:


> “Most anticipated library yet…”
> But how would they know..? 🧐😅




I really hope this musing comes true:





SCS weaknesses in 2021


Like I said in another thread: I think SCS is hard to beat if you are looking for THAT sound (small chamber section in a big hall). I‘m new to it, so I can’t say anything about inconsistencies… I just can say: the playability for (fast) legato transitions is top notch! And thats what I was...




vi-control.net


----------



## gamma-ut

the Loki bit is referring to how the plugin randomly plays clown-car noises as part of the legato transitions while the plugin flashes up "suck on these sucking sounds!"


----------



## el-bo

Michel Simons said:


> You must be English.


Stupid, more like


----------



## tjr

Could the notes be significant? E-F-B? Epic Flautando Basses? Ensoniq Fizmo Basses? Electric Fretless Basses? Okay, I'm thinking it's not really a collection of only basses. But still. E-F-B?


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Shorts are dumb unless you’re running or on the beach. Jeans and boots for life. If u don’t like it, I’ve got a knife!


----------



## Raphioli

If its an innovation that they've been working on for 15 years,
its gotta be their take on "Power Legato". 

Obviously "Power Legato" is already taken so its going to be named as "Loki Legato".


----------



## Paul Cardon

Alto clef. It better not be another fucking string library.



ka00 said:


> I really hope this musing comes true:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SCS weaknesses in 2021
> 
> 
> Like I said in another thread: I think SCS is hard to beat if you are looking for THAT sound (small chamber section in a big hall). I‘m new to it, so I can’t say anything about inconsistencies… I just can say: the playability for (fast) legato transitions is top notch! And thats what I was...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net


Okay never mind, good legato would be a freaking miracle.


----------



## KEM

Baronvonheadless said:


> Shorts are dumb unless you’re running or on the beach. Jeans and boots for life. If u don’t like it, I’ve got a knife!


----------



## Baronvonheadless




----------



## RogiervG

Alex Fraser said:


>



That might be the long (15 Years!!) awaited, (hah even sso is not 15 years old!) SSO2 (that beats the upcoming AR modular) ?


----------



## Alchemedia

@KEM @Baronvonheadless


----------



## Baronvonheadless

New clue via their Instagram. What’s that behind Paul?


----------



## ka00

Baronvonheadless said:


> New clue via their Instagram. What’s that behind Paul?


Right there in the foreground, next to the coffee mug, there’s very clearly a can of flautando.


----------



## jbuhler

ka00 said:


> Right there in the foreground, next to the coffee mug, there’s very clearly a can of flautando.


With a pop top. Personally, I prefer my flautandos spray on.


----------



## ashX

Albion Colossus a hybrid synth library


----------



## Baronvonheadless

ka00 said:


> Right there in the foreground, next to the coffee mug, there’s very clearly a can of flautando.


At the edge of the frame at the edge of silence.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Honestly tho, I love spitfire. And I don’t mind their marketing. Sometimes it’s super fun and keeps things moving imo. Over the top but such is life. And I like the tag edge of silence for tundra enough. 

Although sometimes it’s too much. Sometimes it’s a bit over self hyped. Although it’s the game we’re all in. 

Like Dan Keen’s recent video showcasing frozen strings and him saying at the edge of silence just felt so forced and cringe and you can def tell he had to meet a quota and say it at least more than once throughout hahahaha. 

I don’t like scripts.


----------



## Alex Fraser

New teaser. Go!






(Probably summit to do with strings/orch then.)


----------



## RogiervG

Baronvonheadless said:


> New clue via their Instagram. What’s that behind Paul?


back of a chair


----------



## Studio E

My wallet as I reach for another Spitfire strings library:


----------



## jamessy

spitfire chamber evos?


----------



## Alex Fraser

The background and general colour palette of the vid looks like stylised Spitfire “House Green”..ie strings.


----------



## dunamisstudio

well I guess we'll find out this thursday (1/20) since original post says winner will be contacted 1/25. It would be dumb to release new library on 1/27 after telling someone they won it couple days before.


----------



## muziksculp

I hear Strings !  

Maybe an improved next generation version of their Symphonic Strings, or Chamber Strings or maybe both. 

I will be super excited if any of this is what they will be releasing this month. Kind of what CineSamples is doing to their CineStrings Core, CineBrass, CineWoodwinds, ..etc.


----------



## Go To 11

dunamisstudio said:


> well I guess we'll find out this thursday (1/20) since original post says winner will be contacted 1/25. It would be dumb to release new library on 1/27 after telling someone they won it couple days before.


Thursday 5pm UK time is the one!


----------



## europa_io

muziksculp said:


> I hear Strings !
> 
> Maybe an improved next generation version of their Symphonic Strings, or Chamber Strings or maybe both.
> 
> I will be super excited if any of this is what they will be releasing this month. Kind of what CineSamples is doing to their CineStrings Core, CineBrass, CineWoodwinds, ..etc.


Yeah. My money’s on Chamber Strings now transitioned to the Spitfire Player instead of Kontakt.


----------



## Trevor Meier

Alex Fraser said:


> New teaser. Go!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Probably summit to do with strings/orch then.)



That sounds like SCS to me… !!


----------



## Alex Fraser

europa_io said:


> Yeah. My money’s on Chamber Strings now transitioned to the Spitfire Player instead of Kontakt.


Who’s going to whip out their copy of Chamber Strings and recreate the teaser noodle then? 😅


----------



## Aitcpiano

europa_io said:


> Yeah. My money’s on Chamber Strings now transitioned to the Spitfire Player instead of Kontakt.


I hope it is that!


----------



## muziksculp

europa_io said:


> Yeah. My money’s on Chamber Strings now transitioned to the Spitfire Player instead of Kontakt.


Yes, very likely. 

It could also be their Symphonic Strings, and/or Chamber Strings Libraries. Using the Spitfire Player with some new added features/functionality, and improved legatos, shorts, ..etc.


----------



## Aitcpiano

muziksculp said:


> Yes, very likely.
> 
> It could also be their Symphonic Strings, and/or Chamber Strings Libraries. Using the Spitfire Player with some new added features/functionality, and improved legatos, shorts, ..etc.


That would be ace. I'm really hoping it is that! Some additional shorts and further improvements on the legatos would be amazing!


----------



## muziksculp

Aitcpiano said:


> That would be ace. I'm really hoping it is that! Some additional shorts and further improvements on the legatos would be amazing!


Yup. With a very reasonable upgrade price for owners of their Chamber Strings, and Symphonic Strings Libraries.


----------



## Aitcpiano

muziksculp said:


> Yup. With a very reasonable upgrade price for owners of their Chamber Strings, and Symphonic Strings Libraries.


Yeah I hope so, I've got both SCS Pro and SSS, so it would be very nice if it is at a decent upgrade price. Got my fingers crossed that it is that now.


----------



## filipjonathan

Honestly, I finally decided to get SCS during their next sale and if they port it to their plugin and discontinue the Kontakt version I'll be pretty pissed cause I really dislike their player.


----------



## kro

I have an amazing guess, should I share? I already posted it at their twitter page...

[edit] ok I'll share my guess, drum roll please...

The clef shown is an alto clef
Next photo is the film loki... aka "low key"
low key altos = contraltos

my guess is contraltos recorded at air lyndhurst.
I know, I'm a genius... haha jk.


----------



## muziksculp

filipjonathan said:


> Honestly, I finally decided to get SCS during their next sale and if they port it to their plugin and discontinue the Kontakt version I'll be pretty pissed cause I really dislike their player.


We are just speculating, so it might still be Kontakt based. I personally don't dislike their player, but I'm hoping that they have a new version of their player with more features. Again .. totally speculative. 

Plus, even if the new improved version/s are using their player, you can still use your SCS in Kontakt.


----------



## filipjonathan

muziksculp said:


> Plus, even if the new improved version/s are using their player, you can still use your SCS in Kontakt.


I don't have it yet. I'm planning on getting it in April or whenever they go on sale next. So hopefully they won't discontinue the Kontakt version until then. If it's even that. 

I think it's probably something to do with violas because of the alto clef.


----------



## KEM

muziksculp said:


> Yes, very likely.
> 
> It could also be their Symphonic Strings, and/or Chamber Strings Libraries. Using the Spitfire Player with some new added features/functionality, and improved legatos, shorts, ..etc.



As well as not being able to purge samples or use any keyswitches, awesome!!


----------



## europa_io

ka00 said:


> The first three notes sound like SCS V1 and V2 legato flautando --- REMASTERED!


Although… “NEW library” would be a bit disingenuous I suppose.


----------



## CT

It's the choir finally.


----------



## daan1412

Looks like something more than just an update of SCS. At least that's what I'm hoping. I don't have SCS, but I know it's good and probably one of their best-selling libraries, so taking that, applying certain improvements and marketing as a new product would be... a stretch IMO.

I'd be more interested in something like SSO Core. I've always liked the sound of SSO, but it's too much for me to get on top of another full orchestra I already own. A smaller "core" package is something I would definitely consider. Yeah, it wouldn't be exactly a brand new product either, but still. It's probably not it, though.


----------



## Kevperry777

ka00 said:


> The first three notes sound like SCS V1 and V2 legato flautando --- REMASTERED!


I think you may be right. Hmmmmmm.....


----------



## filipjonathan

But then why Loki and why alto clef if it's SCS?


----------



## daan1412

filipjonathan said:


> But then why Loki and why alto clef if it's SCS?


Not sure why the alto clef, but I'm guessing Loki is there just because it was done at AIR with Jake Jackson, who probably engineered this library.


----------



## Alex Fraser

filipjonathan said:


> But then why Loki and why alto clef if it's SCS?


(Parts of) the Loki score were recorded at Air.


----------



## ka00

daan1412 said:


> Not sure why the alto clef,


ALTO
ALT + O
Alt Mixes + Outrigger included as standard in this new version of SCS, previously only available in the Pro version?


----------



## Jackal_King

I'm going with a Albion cinematic library with Heavyocity-type hybrid patches.


----------



## daan1412

Actually, the clef might mean just legato. If you search "legato" in Google Images, there's the exact same graphic on Wikimedia Commons. Perhaps this means new, improved legato.


----------



## gamma-ut

ka00 said:


> ALTO
> ALT + O
> Alt Mixes + Outrigger included as standard in this new version of SCS, previously only available in the Pro version?


New Super-outriggers with microphones placed at the Royal Free and Richard Burton’s old house, plus 96 other mic combinations. Legato unchanged.


----------



## Jax

I just want an overhauled legato engine for SCS. To me, that is its only weakness.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

The animation looks like fabric / threads - I wonder if it'll actually be a textural library. Whatever it is, I rub my hands with glee anticipating the inevitable disappointment of Vi-C


----------



## AMBi

Jax said:


> I just want an overhauled legato engine for SCS. To me, that is its only weakness.


Agreed. I like most of the library so far, I just can’t help but cringe with certain sections when playing the legato patches.

Even if it isn’t a whole overhaul, bringing the rest of the sections up to snuff with the Violin 1’s would be welcome.


----------



## ka00

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Whatever it is, I rub my hands with glee anticipating the inevitable disappointment of Vi-C


That comes later. But right now, the mood on Vi-C be like…


----------



## kro

daan1412 said:


> Actually, the clef might mean just legato. If you search "legato" in Google Images, there's the exact same graphic on Wikimedia Commons. Perhaps this means new, improved legato.


Good guess! I initially thought the connected notes referred to phrases and loki was tempo "locked" = tempo locked phrases, though probably not from SF.


----------



## Saxer

I think it will be SSO in the Spitfire Player now...


----------



## muziksculp

Saxer said:


> I think it will be SSO in the Spitfire Player now...


And if so, will it sound better, and have better legatos ?


----------



## Justin L. Franks

If it is a new SCS, then maybe they had some extra time booked after completing it to do the recordings for Originals Cinematic Frozen Strings.


----------



## Robo Rivard

FFF Choir, like Strezov's Storm Choir Ultimate.


----------



## sostenuto

Something extra cool _ that I can afford. 💵


----------



## Frederick

Although I don't really want to invest in sample libraries anymore, a new Air Lyndhurst strings library that has important improvements over older libraries is a possible exception. I thought I was safe with them working on a modular orchestra recorded in Abbey Road - and that one I'm planning to skip. My main reasons being that I have so many already and my favorite room sound is Air Lyndhurst anyway. An improved Air library... Let's hope it's going to be a free update kind of deal.


----------



## NYC Composer

EPIC FLATULENT KAZOOS

(recorded at AIR Lyndhurst, of course.)


----------



## Go To 11

daan1412 said:


> Actually, the clef might mean just legato. If you search "legato" in Google Images, there's the exact same graphic on Wikimedia Commons. Perhaps this means new, improved legato.


This is some legit homework.


----------



## Alex Fraser

If it is a new player version of SCS, I wonder if they’ll revisit the SSO after all? I’d hope so. The Air sound is still my favourite.

I’m not convinced these are all brand new samples (never say never..) as surely they’d be diminishing returns starting all over again, not to mention the costs. Perhaps some new samplings of key things like legato?

I am a fan of the SF player though <ducks under desk> so will always welcome updates of older libs.


----------



## RogiervG

Alex Fraser said:


> I am a fan of the SF player though <ducks under desk> so will always welcome updates of older libs.


You always have people being the exception  
(kidding)


----------



## Vik

Frederick said:


> Although I don't really want to invest in sample libraries anymore, a new Air Lyndhurst strings library that has important improvements over older libraries is a possible exception.


They announced a while ago that they have planned a new, modular library based on Abbey Road recordings – so if they were to create a "new SCS" or "new SSS", my guess is that they would do that in AR, and not in Air.


----------



## Alex Fraser

RogiervG said:


> You always have people being the exception
> (kidding)


😂 You know it.

I tend to "drive" the SF player via smart controls/direct host automation, articulation maps etc etc in Logic, rather than being "hands on" with the plugin directly. With this workflow, I bump up against less issues with the SF player than I do with, say, Kontakt.

One day I might shoot a video showing the workflow, but I'm shuffling OT.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

Alex Fraser said:


> One day I might shoot a video showing the workflow, but I'm shuffling OT



and I would be very interested in watching that!


----------



## Trevor Meier

Fever Phoenix said:


> and I would be very interested in watching that!


Me too!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Didn’t Christian say they decided not to port SSO to the new player?


----------



## Alex Fraser

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Didn’t Christian say they decided not to port SSO to the new player?


I believe you're correct.

_If_ this is SCS in new player form though, it might follow that:

Processes and lessons learnt in this conversion could be applied to an SSO upgrade.
_If_ any new SCS sells like hotcakes (and collects significant upgrade income) then there would be a new business case for SSO v.2.
Lots of supposition on my part. But you know, VIC-ing and s**t.


----------



## mussnig

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Didn’t Christian say they decided not to port SSO to the new player?


Exactly, IIRC the reason was that it would be inconvenient for many existing customers to update their templates. But maybe they have changed their minds? Still, I believe that the upcoming release is not an update but something new ...


----------



## Go To 11

mussnig said:


> Exactly, IIRC the reason was that it would be inconvenient for many existing customers to update their templates. But maybe they have changed their minds? Still, I believe that the upcoming release is not an update but something new ...


My hunch is some kind of updated, re-badge or re-package. It specifically harks back to when they started 15 years ago, and all new libraries they release are logically built on 15 years of experience, so to say that now must mean something that was actually first started back then. 

Also, they mention it being highly anticipated, which is the kind of language they used for the extra mics for the winds and brass last year. We can't anticipate something that we don't already, in some way, have or use. You can't anticipate an unknown.


----------



## redlester

Very interesting stuff in this thread. Other than swimming trunks I have not worn shorts since I left junior school in 1971.


----------



## jbuhler

Alex Fraser said:


> I believe you're correct.
> 
> _If_ this is SCS in new player form though, it might follow that:
> 
> Processes and lessons learnt in this conversion could be applied to an SSO upgrade.
> _If_ any new SCS sells like hotcakes (and collects significant upgrade income) then there would be a new business case for SSO v.2.
> Lots of supposition on my part. But you know, VIC-ing and s**t.


I was under the impression that SF ran into some technological problem in porting SSO to the SF player, as the port was supposed to include a bunch of new content that for whatever reason proved incompatible with the existing libraries. If they have managed to port SCS and added content to it that would indeed be promising for the idea of an expanded SSO in the future. 

I also generally prefer the SF player to Kontakt. And I also find myself preferring the sound of Air to AR. 

(There’s a lot of speculation on my part on what happened with the abandoned SSO port but the speculation rests on some comments Christian made about binning large, expensive sessions at Air and the timing of the announcement of the AR modular libraries.)


----------



## ism

muziksculp said:


> And if so, will it sound better, and have better legatos ?



There was a decision made recently to not put SSO in the SF Player. Which strikes me as a good one because there's no obvious benefit, Kontakt works very well in it's current form for SSO in it's current form, and (as we see with OT), there's a lot of risk in putting such flagship workhorses onto a still quite new platform.

But perhaps there are incoming advances to SSO legato, or some other expressiveness, that KSP can't handle well. And here's where having control over the proprietary platform might allow genuine innovation in directions that the monolithic nature of Kontakt might otherwise impede.

Sine does have some real benefits, especially in terms of making some capsule functionality easier to work with. And the Spitfire Player's ability to switch between versions of BBCSO is very suggestive of real user benefits also.

But to date, there all seem to be workflow level benefits. I don't think we've seen an real benefits of these proprietary players to the art of sampling at the level of expressive instruments themselves.

So here's hoping.


----------



## Zanshin

jbuhler said:


> I was under the impression that SF ran into some technological problem in porting SSO to the SF player...


There's this:









LUNA Spitfire Bundle | UAD Audio Plugins | Universal Audio


The LUNA Spitfire Bundle lets you create with world-class, expertly sampled String, Brass, and Woodwind Collections.




www.uaudio.com


----------



## jbuhler

Zanshin said:


> There's this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LUNA Spitfire Bundle | UAD Audio Plugins | Universal Audio
> 
> 
> The LUNA Spitfire Bundle lets you create with world-class, expertly sampled String, Brass, and Woodwind Collections.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.uaudio.com


Yeah, I don’t think the issue was ever porting the libraries as is. I imagine they’ve long had fully functional in-house betas of the port to the player. I think the issue was they found they couldn’t improve them with added content the way they wanted. And so the port would have offered mostly better handling of mics for the pro version. And for that they decided that dealing with the logistics of the port didn’t make sense from a business perspective. Again this is speculation from very limited evidence.


----------



## blaggins

Better mic handling would be very welcome, I hate that they are spread across 3 patches, but sacrificing purge would be a high price to pay for the convenience.


----------



## Aitcpiano

tpoots said:


> Better mic handling would be very welcome, I hate that they are spread across 3 patches, but sacrificing purge would be a high price to pay for the convenience.


Yeah I don't like the mics spread across different patches. Due to that I only really use the extra outrigger mic on SCS Pro.


----------



## Kevperry777

ism said:


> There was a decision made recently to not put SSO in the SF Player. Which strikes me as a good one because there's no obvious benefit, Kontakt works very well in it's current form for SSO in it's current form, and (as we see with OT), there's a lot of risk in putting such flagship workhorses onto a still quite new platform.
> 
> But perhaps there are incoming advances to SSO legato, or some other expressiveness, that KSP can't handle well. And here's where having control over the proprietary platform might allow genuine innovation in directions that the monolithic nature of Kontakt might otherwise impede.
> 
> Sine does have some real benefits, especially in terms of making some capsule functionality easier to work with. And the Spitfire Player's ability to switch between versions of BBCSO is very suggestive of real user benefits also.
> 
> But to date, there all seem to be workflow level benefits. I don't think we've seen an real benefits of these proprietary players to the art of sampling at the level of expressive instruments themselves.
> 
> So here's hoping.



Agreed no obvious benefit with some down side....the SF player really needs purge and multitimbral ability.


----------



## Alex Fraser

ism said:


> There was a decision made recently to not put SSO in the SF Player. Which strikes me as a good one because there's no obvious benefit, Kontakt works very well in it's current form for SSO in it's current form, and (as we see with OT), there's a lot of risk in putting such flagship workhorses onto a still quite new platform.
> 
> But perhaps there are incoming advances to SSO legato, or some other expressiveness, that KSP can't handle well. And here's where having control over the proprietary platform might allow genuine innovation in directions that the monolithic nature of Kontakt might otherwise impede.
> 
> Sine does have some real benefits, especially in terms of making some capsule functionality easier to work with. And the Spitfire Player's ability to switch between versions of BBCSO is very suggestive of real user benefits also.
> 
> But to date, there all seem to be workflow level benefits. I don't think we've seen an real benefits of these proprietary players to the art of sampling at the level of expressive instruments themselves.
> 
> So here's hoping.


Agree with this. They'd have to be a commercial upside to offset development costs. New features, added samples or some sort of special sauce rather than just a straight port.

They could also be offering up a Core version too - Spitfire seem quite into that at the moment - and it would open up a new market price point. <shrug>


----------



## ism

Kevperry777 said:


> Agreed no obvious benefit with some down side....the SF player really needs purge and multitimbral ability.


But I'd happily trade this kind nice-to-have workflow tweaks for any genuinely expressive dimension to the music that could be made.


----------



## jbuhler

Alex Fraser said:


> Agree with this. They'd have to be a commercial upside to offset development costs. New features, added samples or some sort of special sauce rather than just a straight port.
> 
> They could also be offering up a Core version too - Spitfire seem quite into that at the moment - and it would open up a new market price point. <shrug>


I'm almost certain a straight port of SSO was done long ago in house, because most of it for SSO would be quite straightforward, so those development costs are likely already mostly paid for. But there are still logistic challenges to making the change even after the port is done and working. The main advantage to porting as is would be the handling of the mics. Meanwhile there would be a lot of consumer resistance to a port that didn't offer significant new functionality of some sort, and it's not clear that the mics offer enough. Then you have the added difficulty of supporting two distinct lines of the product. And you can declare EOL for the Kontakt version, but that's hard enough when the new ported version offers significant new functionality. I think it would be very hard with limited new functionality (and some deprecation, as in the lack of purge).


----------



## Tusker

It's clearly the notes E F and B, sampled in a lo ki.


----------



## easyrider

ETA?


----------



## NoamL

Go To 11 said:


> It specifically harks back to when they started 15 years ago, and all new libraries they release are logically built on 15 years of experience, so to say that now must mean something that was actually first started back then.


Or it could just be marketing guff!


easyrider said:


> ETA?


Thursday morning this week.


----------



## sheen

AI-r

computer says "legato"


----------



## filipjonathan




----------



## jbuhler

filipjonathan said:


>



This makes me think maybe Intimate Strings Legato?


----------



## Alex Fraser

So it really is Spitfire Power Legato™.


----------



## KEM

Not HZ Brass


----------



## mybadmemory

Starting to sound like a new intimate or chamber string library, returning to their roots with chamber strings at Air, but deploying their latest legato sampling techniques from Abbey Road?


----------



## ka00

At the risk of being disappointed later, I am going to allow myself to get really excited about this now.

That latest tease sounds lovely. Hopefully we'll see this library do fast lines convincingly as well, and that all sections will get the same attention to detail.

Rooting for this to be something special and if it's indeed much better than their past legato patches, then hoping that represents the new standard for their legato patches going forward.


----------



## Go To 11

mybadmemory said:


> Starting to sound like a new intimate or chamber string library, returning to their roots with chamber strings at Air, but deploying their latest legato sampling techniques from Abbey Road?


Yes please!


----------



## Alex Fraser

mybadmemory said:


> Starting to sound like a new intimate or chamber string library, returning to their roots with chamber strings at Air, but deploying their latest legato sampling techniques from Abbey Road?


Sounds like a likely release to me. Perhaps all new recordings or new special sauce legato recordings added to the existing product. Either way, niiiyce.


----------



## jamessy

"You've been waiting awhile for this one" 

free update confirmed


----------



## mussnig

filipjonathan said:


>



So does this mean that my MIDI controller will start to gently vibrate while I play with this library 😁


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I hope this library ONLY has legato so we can get a thread complaining that people don’t even use legato.


----------



## labyrinths

If you look at the links from their Instagram, they're using a URL shortener to redirect to their YouTube. The link is https://spitfire.click/Appassionata-subscribe. Maybe the name of the new release?


----------



## N.Caffrey

labyrinths said:


> If you look at the links from their Instagram, they're using a URL shortener to redirect to their YouTube. The link is https://spitfire.click/Appassionata-subscribe. Maybe the name of the new release?


Very likely


----------



## coprhead6

I’m hoping it’s an updated SCS, but it’s most likely just a one-trick legato library similar to their Symphonic Motions release. Motions filled the gap of short note repetitions in the Air Studios libraries and I think this could be the same but for emotional legato.

Also if this was a whole new strings library I would imagine they would roll out the red carpet of Hype instead of just posting an image riddle.


----------



## Go To 11

labyrinths said:


> If you look at the links from their Instagram, they're using a URL shortener to redirect to their YouTube. The link is https://spitfire.click/Appassionata-subscribe. Maybe the name of the new release?


Damn you’re good.


----------



## digimortal

Ok, i'll play, ignoring the strings clues...

- Paul Thompson used to sing in choir
- Loki is character in Wagner opera's
- Wagner piece in alto clef is 'Die Meistersinger'
- Loki get's summoned in Wagner's 'Wotan's farewell'

My guess is either 'Spitfire Symphonic Choir' or 'Richard Wagner Composer Toolkit'

I might be looking too much into this eheh


----------



## filipjonathan

coprhead6 said:


> Also if this was a whole new strings library I would imagine they would roll out the red carpet of Hype instead of just posting an image riddle.


Yeah, you're right about that.


----------



## Go To 11

digimortal said:


> Ok, i'll play, ignoring the strings clues...
> 
> - Paul Thompson used to sing in choir
> - Loki is character in Wagner opera's
> - Wagner piece in alto clef is 'Die Meistersinger'
> - Loki get's summoned in Wagner's 'Wotan's farewell'
> 
> My guess is either 'Spitfire Symphonic Choir' or 'Richard Wagner Composer Toolkit'
> 
> I might be looking too much into this eheh


You raise a good point though, which is how does this relate to Loki?


----------



## coprhead6

It will be a MARVEL-OUS legato library


----------



## robgb

A Natalie Holt violin library.


----------



## daan1412

labyrinths said:


> If you look at the links from their Instagram, they're using a URL shortener to redirect to their YouTube. The link is https://spitfire.click/Appassionata-subscribe. Maybe the name of the new release?


Nice find! It definitely seems like the name. So at this point I bet it's going to be a library focused on passion and performance. Wouldn't be surprised if it's legato only - one patch per instrument. I wish it wasn't just strings, though.


----------



## digimortal

SA Appassionata?


Could be nothing, but I found SA trademarked "Appassionata" back in December 2020. Is this something they have used yet? The list of goods and services it covers is very wide: Music software;Music-composition software;Computer software for creating and editing music and sounds. Music...




vi-control.net


----------



## jbuhler

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I hope this library ONLY has legato so we can get a thread complaining that people don’t even use legato.


Another fcking string legato library. When will FFF apocalyptic trombones on the edge of noise get some SF love?


----------



## muziksculp

Listening to their latest Instagram teaser video, It sounds more like a chamber sized string section playing slow legato. Could it be a new version of SCS with these new Legatos ? or maybe a new legato only chamber strings library, with a special emotional style legato bowing ? There is surely an emphasis on 'Legato' in the teasers.

I'm happy with either one. Looking forward to see what it is, hopefully this Thursday.


----------



## filipjonathan

muziksculp said:


> hopefully this Thursday


It _is _Thursday.


----------



## muziksculp

filipjonathan said:


> It _is _Thursday.


Great ! Thanks for confirming. 

I was under the impression that it's a maybe.


----------



## muziksculp

So, is this going to be their Legato Strings Game Changer Library ? 

Attention : CSS Fans !


----------



## Fever Phoenix

jbuhler said:


> Another fcking string legato library. When will FFF apocalyptic trombones on the edge of noise get some SF love?


I think this is the first time I've seen you curse!


----------



## liquidlino

muziksculp said:


> So, is this going to be their Legato Strings Game Changer Library ?
> 
> Attention : CSS Fans !


Them's fighting words. They'll have to go some to match the degree of exactness and consistency that CSS has. I'd love an AIR library with CSS level attention to detail, runs & lookahead - now that would be a total game changer.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

SCS update, please! That would be a marvelous thing!


----------



## muziksculp

Fever Phoenix said:


> SCS update, please! That would be a marvelous thing!


Yup. With Game Changing Legatos  Now that would be Awesome !


----------



## Fever Phoenix

muziksculp said:


> Yup. With Game Changing Legatos


and game changing sucking sound removal, too?


----------



## muziksculp

Fever Phoenix said:


> and game changing sucking sound removal, too?


Sure, Yes. They have been working at getting the suction sound removal feature do it's job for the past 15 years, now they have it ready for us.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Simeon




----------



## Fever Phoenix

muziksculp said:


> Sure, Yes. They have been working at getting the suction sound removal feature do it's job for the past 15 years, now they have it ready for us.


marvelous!

So it's SCS, SCS Pro and SCS Pro Suction Cup Edition with game changing Legato!


----------



## Kevperry777

labyrinths said:


> If you look at the links from their Instagram, they're using a URL shortener to redirect to their YouTube. The link is https://spitfire.click/Appassionata-subscribe. Maybe the name of the new release?


Bam. Nice find. I’m guessing Spitfire Vista basically.


----------



## Aitcpiano

It probably wont be a SCS update with improved legatos, new content or ported over to their player. I wish it was but it probably wont be.


----------



## jamessy

The orange and green in the graphic seems to be a nod to the both SSO and the chamber edition. Using the word 'patch' really has me hoping it's an update that's monumental enough to hype up. Because if this is an overhaul of legato scripting then this would be a massive update for a lot of libraries. Perhaps they announce the update, make a big deal out of it, and celebrate the occasion with a huge sale so that I can buy SStS.

I'm speaking it into existence. I know that you can read on page 1 that it is in fact a new library but I choose to remain unreasonable


----------



## filipjonathan

jamessy said:


> The orange and green in the graphic seems to be a nod to the both SSO and the chamber edition. Using the word 'patch' really has me hoping it's an update that's monumental enough to hype up. Because if this is an overhaul of legato scripting then this would be a massive update for a lot of libraries. Perhaps they announce the update, make a big deal out of it, and celebrate the occasion with a huge sale so that I can buy SStS.
> 
> I'm speaking it into existence. I know that you can read on page 1 that it is in fact a new library but I choose to remain unreasonable


If it was possible I would give you my Studio strings as I don't really use them that much.


----------



## muziksculp

Quote from their Instagram Post. 

" Since the early days of Spitfire Audio, @airstudioslyndhurst has been our spiritual home.

The birthplace of countless blockbuster scores and some of our best-selling libraries, we return to Air with our most anticipated library yet,* a major innovation that's been 15 years in the making.** "*


So... If this is a Major Legato Innovation, that took them 15 years to develop, I wonder how does it sound compared to the current breed of Legatos we hear in their current Libraries, and Legatos from other developer libraries ? i.e. CSS ? 

The posted audio accompanying their Instagram teasers don't sound like something very different, or improved compared to what they currently offer. So.. I'm all ears, and super excited to hear this new Legato Innovation. If that's what this is all about.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I dunno much about the process, but I’d imagine you’d have to switch up the sampling (new recordings) to get a quantum leap in legato?

Test will be the agility. How it responds to different playing speeds without the need for keyswitching etc. There’s lots of clever stuff that could happen under the hood that we haven’t seen yet, not forgetting the ability to throw shorts into the same patch.

Also a next gen version of Spitfires “Nearest Neighbour” idea for repeated notes. Lots to play for still in the space I think.

It's looking increasingly like "Spitfire Appassionata Strings" which could be fun.
On the _"15 years in the making"_ thing, I wonder if that simply refers to 15 years of Spitfire doing this or if it means an explicit re-use of existing sample recordings in conjunction with new ones. Or just marketing fluff. 

Thursday comes..


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> Thursday comes..


----------



## ka00

filipjonathan said:


>



This is a bit out of nowhere, but I notice that post has 13 likes on vi-control and 1125 likes so far on Instagram.

Could this indicate there are many, many people outside of vi-control who like virtual instruments?

Maybe ballpark 90x as many people (or more)?

If so, where do all the presumed extra opinions, criticisms, praise and complaints exist? Are they being endlessly expressed and debated on Instagram and Facebook? Or are they not verbalized at that same 90x ratio?? Are those 1125 people just busy making music? Or are they busy scrolling on instagram?

I'm open to theories, since we have time before this library drops.


----------



## RogiervG

labyrinths said:


> If you look at the links from their Instagram, they're using a URL shortener to redirect to their YouTube. The link is https://spitfire.click/Appassionata-*subscribe*. Maybe the name of the new release?


Subscription service confirmed, just like the upcoming (now in beta) "musio" service by Cinesamples. 







"Hi, i am Paul Thomson, and i am very excited to show you our subscription service appassionata.
Now eveyone can enjoy the best sampled instruments for just xxx amount monthly, or xxx amount yearly. It gives a great oppertunity for everyone, from small to bigger budgets to enjoy these sounds we've made the last 15 years"


----------



## davidson

ka00 said:


> This is a bit out of nowhere, but I notice that post has 13 likes on vi-control and 1125 likes so far on Instagram.
> 
> Could this indicate there are many, many people outside of vi-control who like virtual instruments?
> 
> Maybe ballpark 90x as many people (or more)?
> 
> If so, where do all the presumed extra opinions, criticisms, praise and complaints exist? Are they being endlessly expressed and debated on Instagram and Facebook? Or are they not verbalized at that same 90x ratio?? Are those 1125 people just busy making music? Or are they busy scrolling on instagram?
> 
> I'm open to theories, since we have time before this library drops.


If you look at the turnover spitfire have, it's clear that vi-control members make up a tiny tiny fraction of their customer base, unless everyone here is buying 40,000 copies of bbcso.


----------



## Jotto

ka00 said:


> This is a bit out of nowhere, but I notice that post has 13 likes on vi-control and 1125 likes so far on Instagram.
> 
> Could this indicate there are many, many people outside of vi-control who like virtual instruments?
> 
> Maybe ballpark 90x as many people (or more)?
> 
> If so, where do all the presumed extra opinions, criticisms, praise and complaints exist? Are they being endlessly expressed and debated on Instagram and Facebook? Or are they not verbalized at that same 90x ratio?? Are those 1125 people just busy making music? Or are they busy scrolling on instagram?
> 
> I'm open to theories, since we have time before this library drops.


Its also possible to buy likes


----------



## filipjonathan

Jotto said:


> Its also possible to buy likes


They wouldn't???


----------



## Raphioli

There are other similar forums like gear space and kvr, so I wouldn't be surprised.
Then Spitfire also does giveaways on social media, so I would understand the amount of followers and Likes.
I wouldn't even be surprised if someone made multiple accounts, just to win the giveaways.


----------



## Alex Fraser

ka00 said:


> This is a bit out of nowhere, but I notice that post has 13 likes on vi-control and 1125 likes so far on Instagram.
> 
> Could this indicate there are many, many people outside of vi-control who like virtual instruments?
> 
> Maybe ballpark 90x as many people (or more)?
> 
> If so, where do all the presumed extra opinions, criticisms, praise and complaints exist? Are they being endlessly expressed and debated on Instagram and Facebook? Or are they not verbalized at that same 90x ratio?? Are those 1125 people just busy making music? Or are they busy scrolling on instagram?
> 
> I'm open to theories, since we have time before this library drops.


Yeah, compared to social media reach, a fully stacked mailing list etc...VIC is small cheese to SF now I think.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

redlester said:


>


----------



## sundrowned

I can't imagine using VIs and not being on VIC. I'd be so lost.


----------



## blaggins

Alex Fraser said:


> Yeah, compared to social media reach, a fully stacked mailing list etc...VIC is small cheese to SF now I think.





sundrowned said:


> I can't imagine using VIs and not being on VIC. I'd be so lost.



Same. If not here, then where are folks finding out about sample libraries and developers and getting opinions on what to buy and what not to? Gearspace? I needed this place to get started myself, social media would have been woefully insufficient...


----------



## Mornats

I'm sure there are people out there who buy a couple of libraries and then just make music with them. No discussions, debates or GAS! Can't believe it myself but hey ho.


----------



## sundrowned

tpoots said:


> Same. If not here, then where are folks finding out about sample libraries and developers and getting opinions on what to buy and what not to? Gearspace? I needed this place to get started myself, social media would have been woefully insufficient...


Well this thread does have 3k views so they could all be on here


----------



## blaggins

Mornats said:


> I'm sure there are people out there who buy a couple of libraries and then just make music with them. No discussions, debates or GAS! Can't believe it myself but hey ho.


Ha, yeah for me the SF libraries (all of them, with the exception of the Originals series) are too expensive to just buy without hours of "research" beforehand.


----------



## NoamL

sounds good....


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

sundrowned said:


> Well this thread does have 3k views so they could all be on here


I doubt it. SF has thousands of customers. Their Westworld scoring competition a couple years ago had well over 10,000 entries, I'm pretty sure those didn't all come from VI control members.


----------



## Ricgus3

NoamL said:


> sounds good....



Sounds like low strings so far with the highest section being violas I would guess. Probably a revision of inceni!


----------



## Ian Dorsch

NoamL said:


> sounds good....


Sounds REAL good.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

tpoots said:


> Ha, yeah for me the SF libraries (all of them, with the exception of the Originals series) are too expensive to just buy without hours of "research" beforehand.


I think I had less jitters about buying libraries back when I didn't know any different. When I took the plunge on EW Complete Composer Collection (2008?) it was 100% based on the demos on their website and I gambled about $2000. Ignorance was bliss!


----------



## Evans

Ricgus3 said:


> Sounds like low strings so far with the highest section being violas I would guess. Probably a revision of inceni!


Well, this could just be one patch in a product that has five, ten, or 50 patches.


----------



## Chungus

davidson said:


> unless everyone here is buying 40,000 copies of bbcso.


Is this _not _ a thing people do?!


----------



## Go To 11

Ricgus3 said:


> Sounds like low strings so far with the highest section being violas I would guess. Probably a revision of inceni!


Man if this isn't split section patches, but 'low' and 'high' strings... Ngngng. Praying it's an extension of Symphonic and Chamber - sounds like they've finally nailed the legato!


----------



## mybadmemory

sundrowned said:


> Well this thread does have 3k views so they could all be on here


But they have 114k followers on Instagram, and 182k on YouTube.


----------



## RogiervG

Remember they mentioned 15 years in the making statement? For just a string library (all the clips so far are strings) this is very very long.. way too long infact.. It must be something more than that...

My Guess: a new SSO (brand new recordings, new programming (with highly improved legatos), many mics etc)
Why? So they can, in the near future, have two top line NEW orchestras in famous locations: Air Lyndhurst and Abbey Road One exclusively (by contract)

But in reality i think i will be disappointed, just like many times before with how the hyped marketing turned out for the actual product... *sad face*
However, i hope i will be enjoying their launch/reveal this time.. *go Spitfire Go... and make it so!*


----------



## muziksculp

Watching the event tomorrow should be very interesting. Unfortunately, I won't be able to watch it live, but I will watch it later in the day. I hope it's a real Game Changer this time around


----------



## ism

I am feeling that legato. And the dynamics. And that release, almost a decrescendo. Very expressive. And the sound. Sometime there's really just no substitute for AIR.


----------



## coprhead6

The legato in their Instagram post is terrifying good...

- A scared professional violist


----------



## RogiervG

coprhead6 said:


> The legato in their Instagram post is terrifying good...
> 
> - A scared professional violist


WHich one? the last one? or the first clip? the first not so good in contrast of the last one imho (you hear the exact same attack on note start)
The last one sounds way better.

First one:





Last one (as of this writing):


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Raphioli

NoamL said:


> sounds good....



wow, they might have done it.

But at the same time, if they have done it, I hope "Loki" doesn't refer to "Low Key" though...
But I have the feeling it is....

Because with this legato quality, I would want Violins too...

Edit: Oh, wait. Considering the previous snippet, I probably wouldn't have to worry about that.


----------



## coprhead6

Ah I didn't see the cello one yet!
I thought the violins sounded amazing. On further listening, the last transition wasn't super great but the expression is spot on.

The celli still have some sucking between notes but it's WAY better than the SSS celli trying to play that phrase.

I'm scared for my session buddies making their primary living off of TV, Games, and Medium budget films... I jumped ship from that world when I heard samples for the first time in 2016 lol.


----------



## muziksculp

coprhead6 said:


> The celli still have some sucking between notes but it's WAY better than the SSS celli trying to play that phrase.


Really ? The Celli ? I don't hear any sucking between the notes. They just sound like smooth legato transitions to my ears.


----------



## coprhead6

muziksculp said:


> Really ? The Celli ? I don't hear any sucking between the notes. They just sound like smooth legato transitions to my ears.


It’s definitely the smoothest I’ve heard in samples but I can tell the difference as a player. 
Thus me being terrified lol


----------



## Karma

Not to stir up _too_ much hype, but this release is definitely my personal favourite and the one I've been most excited to work on in all of my time at Spitfire (over 4 years now, what?!). Bring on tomorrow


----------



## sheen

...it's gonna knock you off your feet?


----------



## jamessy

this sounds like the SSS bass performance legato but better. We don't need a new library just need the patches updated


----------



## filipjonathan

jamessy said:


> this sounds like the SSS bass performance legato but better. We don't need a new library just need the patches updated


Yes!


----------



## Evans

They won't give us Hans Zimmer Brass, so it's gotta be Junkie XL Strings.


----------



## blaggins

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I think I had less jitters about buying libraries back when I didn't know any different. When I took the plunge on EW Complete Composer Collection (2008?) it was 100% based on the demos on their website and I gambled about $2000. Ignorance was bliss!


I imagine you saved yourself quite a bit of time though, that is time spent agonizing over whether to purchase something or not...


----------



## ridgero

Free for all LABS users 😂


----------



## ism

Ha! 

Yeah, somehow I don't think this one is going to be $29.


----------



## Peter Satera

Nice, would love a vista-like lib in air studios.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

sundrowned said:


> I can't imagine using VIs and not being on VIC. I'd be so lost.


I would lose control.


----------



## artomatic

Hearing these snippets... oh, my wife's gonna be Spitting Fire at me!
But I Gotta Acquire this String library! It's sounding really delicious!!


----------



## prodigalson

DAMMIT!!! I told myself Abbey Road 2 was my last library for a long time…but top-tier string section legatos at AIR Lyndhurst would almost be an instabuy!


----------



## dunamisstudio

Karma said:


> Not to stir up _too_ much hype, but this release is definitely my personal favourite and the one I've been most excited to work on in all of my time at Spitfire (over 4 years now, what?!). Bring on tomorrow


I'm very excited


----------



## Alchemedia

sundrowned said:


> I can't imagine using VIs and not being on VIC. I'd be so lost.


But think of all the time & money you'd save.


----------



## labyrinths

I thought I was done buying libraries for a while, but I'm about to upgrade my RAM, so maybe there's room for another library in my AIR Lyndhurst template (and then I really do need to take a break...)


----------



## muziksculp

prodigalson said:


> DAMMIT!!! I told myself Abbey Road 2 was my last library for a long time…but top-tier string section legatos at AIR Lyndhurst would almost be an instabuy!





labyrinths said:


> I thought I was done buying libraries for a while, but I'm about to upgrade my RAM, so maybe there's room for another library in my AIR Lyndhurst template (and then I really do need to take a break...)



When will you learn this : *" You can never have enough Strings Libraries " *

Also repeated in my Signature below.


----------



## Cdnalsi

Huh I guess I'm not buying BBCSO Core until after 5PM then...


----------



## AEF

After buying SCS pro earlier this year it renewed my love for AIR. Intrigued by this newest addition.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

Karma said:


> Not to stir up _too_ much hype, but this release is definitely my personal favourite and the one I've been most excited to work on in all of my


okay, nothing stirred overhere, like.. at all..


----------



## ka00

16 hours to go.


----------



## Jackal_King

Lets just hope that they don't surprise us with over 300GB of contents that we need to download. I need to save what's left in my SSD for the dozen or so sample libraries on my 2022 wishlist.


----------



## filipjonathan

This sounds beautiful!


----------



## fiction

I'm ready.


----------



## ka00

I love that last tease! Mark my words, for years to come, this will be the industry’s leading alto theremin library.


----------



## fiatlux

All of the teases so far sound really similar to the Minimalist Legato patches in Afflatus.


----------



## Alex Fraser

ka00 said:


> I love that last tease! Mark my words, for years to come, this will be the industry’s leading alto theremin library.


A final nod I guess to what _could _have been.


----------



## juliandoe

Black Friday, Christmas, New year, MacBook Pro-blems, and tax bill... my budget for a library in January is equal to my enthusiasm to pay taxes.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

juliandoe said:


> Black Friday, Christmas, New year, MacBook Pro-blems, and tax bill... my budget for a library in January is equal to my enthusiasm to pay taxes.



VAT?? I mean.. WHAT?


----------



## juliandoe

Fever Phoenix said:


> VAT?? I mean.. WHAT?


LOL eh no my turnover is not that high. I'm still a musician, and my uncle still thinks that I should get a haircut and get a real job...


----------



## Alex Fraser

Funniest thing about these hype threads is that come 5pm release day, the first crowd (predictions, tomfoolery) begins to take leave as the second crowd (opinions, critique) move in. Happens almost every time. No right or wrong, just an interesting dynamic.


----------



## Cdnalsi

Alex Fraser said:


> Funniest thing about these hype threads is that come 5pm release day, the first crowd (predictions, tomfoolery) begins to take leave as the second crowd (opinions, critique) move in. Happens almost every time. No right or wrong, just an interesting dynamic.


I observed this exact behaviour while reading back through the massive BBCSO thread. Quite funny actually!


----------



## juliandoe

Alex Fraser said:


> Funniest thing about these hype threads is that come 5pm release day, the first crowd (predictions, tomfoolery) begins to take leave as the second crowd (opinions, critique) move in. Happens almost every time. No right or wrong, just an interesting dynamic.


well, I believe that it's quite normal. after the announcement you get all the excited people rushing in. so the critical, opinionated, and reflective people, respecting their own nature, read, reflect and wait that the "first crowd" fades away to publish their comment.


----------



## muziksculp

My wallet is not happy this morning.


----------



## Trash Panda

Alex Fraser said:


> Funniest thing about these hype threads is that come 5pm release day, the first crowd (predictions, tomfoolery) begins to take leave as the second crowd (opinions, critique) move in. Happens almost every time. No right or wrong, just an interesting dynamic.


The lemmings just can't help but throw themselves off the hype cliff every. single. time.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Trash Panda said:


> The lemmings just can't help but throw themselves off the hype cliff every. single. time.


Nah, I think just a bit of fun. Thrill of the chase etc.
For clarity, I'm not the behaviour police. We've all sorts around here and it's what makes the forum work.

1 hour..


----------



## labyrinths

Trash Panda said:


> The lemmings just can't help but throw themselves off the hype cliff every. single. time.


----------



## NoamL

Trash Panda said:


> The lemmings just can't help but throw themselves off the hype cliff every. single. time.


Remember when they said BBCSO was the "new universal starting point" or something? And this library is "15 years in the making." Marketing always has to find something cool to say, but honestly, just ignore all that and listen to the sounds and ask yourself if you'd use them every day... 

I think SF are going from strength to strength recently. The Abbey Road libraries that have been released so far really sound good, and this does too.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Only 17 pages?? Guys, we're slacking.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Only 17 pages?? Guys, we're slacking.


To be fair, we've only had a few days run-up. The hype for BBCSO went on for, what, 9 months?


----------



## jamessy

NoamL said:


> Remember when they said BBCSO was the "new universal starting point" or something? And this library is "15 years in the making." Marketing always has to find something cool to say, but honestly, just ignore all that and listen to the sounds and ask yourself if you'd use them every day...
> 
> I think SF are going from strength to strength recently. The Abbey Road libraries that have been released so far really sound good, and this does too.


tbf BBCSO core seems like a pretty good starting point for a first library


----------



## mussnig

There is already a trailer and one can see the GUI:


----------



## Cdnalsi

The interface is beautiful, they've nailed it!


----------



## Zanshin

I feel like the interface might be bespoke.


----------



## filipjonathan

mussnig said:


> There is already a trailer and one can see the GUI:



You kind of spoiled the fun 😂


----------



## mussnig

Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Appassionata Strings






www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## Alex Fraser

Cdnalsi said:


> The interface is beautiful, they've nailed it!


I’m sure someone will complain about the wonderful art taking up gui space. 😅


----------



## ism

30s in .. and these are definitely my dynamics.

Paul is not the only one who's very excited ...


----------



## NoamL

Changed the title from *"Spitfire January Library" *to *"Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread." *And edited the first post with links to the release day.

I'm downloading now so... see ya!


----------



## ism

Waves!


----------



## filipjonathan

Since this is dedicated to legato, it's kind of a bummer it doesn't do polyphonic legato with sustains.


----------



## clonewar

Why use the same name as the VSL library?


----------



## Ian Dorsch

Man, I cannot express how stoked I am to have that gorgeous AIR Studios sound with some actually beautiful string legatos. This has always been the deal-breaker for me with Spitfire's flagship libraries.


----------



## ism

clonewar said:


> Why use the same name as the VSL library?



I don't think that "apassionata" is any more trademark-able than "flautando" or "normale". 

Of course I used to think this about words like "face" and "book" too, so who knows


----------



## Raphioli

Watching now and the legato sounds so nice...
Seems like there are a few other bonus patches.
I can't believe the price though, wow. 

I'm also glad they included the mic positions from SSO.
And glad that they included the legato offset settings and the noise floor feature sounds interesting.


----------



## ummon

This new legato technology should have been itegrated to SSO.


----------



## labyrinths

I didn't have much time to watch the premiere, but I caught about 15 seconds, went to go look at the price and listen to a demo or two, and bought the library instantly. 35% off intro pricing made it an easy decision for me. I appreciate loyalty discounts, and I'd been prepared to consider dropping a few hundred. If it's as good as the demos, then I don't think I'll regret this decision.


----------



## jamessy

SSS pro- $1100
SCS pro - $1000
SStS pro - $500

needing to buy another library to get smooth legatos - priceless (j/k $250)


----------



## Raphioli

Ian Dorsch said:


> Man, I cannot express how stoked I am to have that gorgeous AIR Studios sound with some actually beautiful string legatos. This has always been the deal-breaker for me with Spitfire's flagship libraries.


Couldn't agree more.
This is what's missing from SCS and SSS.
I also wish they'd redo the legatos in Hans Zimmer Strings with this tech.


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> 30s in .. and these are definitely my dynamics.
> 
> Paul is not the one one who's very excited ...


I don't think I've ever hit buy so fast.


----------



## Zedcars

Spotted the name a while back: 






SA Appassionata?


Could be nothing, but I found SA trademarked "Appassionata" back in December 2020. Is this something they have used yet? The list of goods and services it covers is very wide: Music software;Music-composition software;Computer software for creating and editing music and sounds. Music...




vi-control.net


----------



## fiction

Great price! Gonna buy it and see how they blend with SCS.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

This sounds incredible. Sure, I wish this was a free update to existing libraries, but I'm assuming new recording techniques were needed, so I understand. At least we get a 35% loyalty discount for owning SSS, SCS, Symphonic Evos, or Symphonic Motions, so we get almost the same price right now as waiting a year for when it is eligible for 40% off.


----------



## Zanshin

$161.85 with loyalty... I actually may buy this... goddamit.


----------



## NoamL

The price is eye opening if you compare this to Sable Vol1+2 from back in 2013. That was $1200 in today's money, but for more articulations, but not as deeply sampled. The upshot is Appassionata is 1/2 the size on disk, but at 1/7th the price.


----------



## ed buller

Instant buy!.....

best

e


----------



## prodigalson

incredible price with the loyalty discount and this new approach to legato bodes well for the Abbey Road modular line!!


----------



## Raphioli

My excitement while watching their live stream is completely synchronizing with Paul's excitement.
Not sure if this has happened before to me.... wow...


----------



## Alex Fraser

Yeah, new legato specific recording techniques as I understand, so would be impossible to apply to older products.

But Abbey Road modular…


----------



## Scamper

Finally great legatos from Spitfire. Makes me very optimistic for the upcoming modular Abbey Road 1 orchestra.

Hope we'll soon get the purge functionality for the Spitfire Player or this will blow up RAM like nothing with those 5 dynamic layers.

I'm not totally sure how the size fits in with SCS and SSS. 8/6/6/6/4 is right in between the others and it might not be so seamless to use it just as the SCS/SSS legato. Otherwise, a lovely size for string sections - broad, yet detailed.

Also, I'm very curious what this "impulse legato" actually means in the way it's recorded.


----------



## Aitcpiano

I was going to be holding back from buying any more sample libraries but think I am going to have to make an exception with this one.


----------



## Simon Lee

Wow I love the sound of this library instant buy


----------



## Aitcpiano

Scamper said:


> Finally great legatos from Spitfire. Makes me very optimistic for the upcoming modular Abbey Road 1 orchestra.
> 
> Also I hope we'll soon get the purge functionality for the Spitfire Player or this will blow up RAM like nothing with those 5 dynamic layers.
> 
> I'm not totally sure how the size fits in with SCS and SSS. 8/6/6/6/4 is right in between the others and it might not be so seamless to use it just as the SCS/SSS legato. Otherwise, a lovely size for string sections - broad, yet detailed.


It should fit in really well i'd imagine with SCS and SSS. A nice in between section size. Not too small but not too large.


----------



## mussnig

Aitcpiano said:


> It should fit in really well i'd imagine with SCS and SSS. A nice in between section size. Not too small but not too large.


Same as Spitfire Studio Strings. And I found that one to be nicely balanced (but I'm an amateur ...).


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

NoamL said:


> The price is eye opening if you compare this to Sable Vol1+2 from back in 2013. That was $1200 in today's money, but for more articulations, but not as deeply sampled. The upshot is Appassionata is 1/2 the size on disk, but at 1/7th the price.


I literally could not believe it when I saw people saying what price it was set at in the chat.


----------



## Casiquire

Am i crazy or are there no shorts?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I'm the police of the legato police - and y'all can go home, suckers!


----------



## Robert_G

2 years ago I said I wouldn't buy anything ever again from Spitfire. This one might break me. 
My concern is the room. It will be hard to mix with other libraries. If there is a whole Appassionata series to follow, I might get this one.


----------



## filipjonathan

What happened with the giveaway?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Casiquire said:


> Am i crazy or are there no shorts?


If you're looking for spiccatos in a legato library, you might be looking in the wrong place lol. They have recorded many shorts over the years in AIR that can blend with this though.


----------



## fiction

The demos sound really good too, not used to hearing this consistency from spitfire audio. 

The sound has always been there but this type of soaring lines required much attention to detail. 

I think many people will be happy with this release.


----------



## jbuhler

Casiquire said:


> Am i crazy or are there no shorts?


There are glancing attacks listed in the articulation list. I didn't watch the walkthrough carefully enough to know if Paul demonstrated them.


----------



## NoamL

Scamper said:


> 8/6/6/6/4 is right in between the others


I'd call it "studio size" strings - anything from 25 to 45 players... here's some points of comparison:

Cinematic Strings 2.1 ------ 12 / 8 / 7 / 7 / 6
Cinematic Studio Strings --- 10 / 7 / 7 / 6 / 5
Soaring Strings ------------- 10 / 0 / 6 / 5 / 4
Con Moto --------------------- 8 / 6 / 6 / 6 / 6
Nashville Scoring Strings ---- 8 / 0 / 6 / 5 / 4
Appassionata ----------------- 8 / 6 / 6 / 6 / 4
Berlin Strings ----------------- 8 / 6 / 5 / 5 / 4
Venice Modern Strings ------- 8 / 6 / 5 / 5 / 3
8dio Century Ensemble ------ 6 / 4 / 6 / 4 / 4
Synchron Elite ---------------- 6 / 5 / 4 / 4 / 3

Sorry, I'm just waiting for the download to finish


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Robert_G said:


> 2 years ago I said I wouldn't buy anything ever again from Spitfire. This one might break me.
> My concern is the room. It will be hard to mix with other libraries. If there is a whole Appassionata series to follow, I might get this one.


Paul showed something about how you can “dial down” the release.


----------



## jamessy

would love to hear some demos of it blending with SSS and SCS


----------



## filipjonathan

Also, it would be nice to hear if it can do fast legato.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

NoamL said:


> I'd call it "studio size" strings - here's some points of comparison:
> 
> Cinematic Strings 2.1 ------ 12 / 8 / 7 / 7 / 6
> Cinematic Studio Strings --- 10 / 7 / 7 / 6 / 5
> Soaring Strings ------------- 10 / 0 / 6 / 5 / 4
> Con Moto --------------------- 8 / 6 / 6 / 6 / 6
> Nashville Scoring Strings ---- 8 / 0 / 6 / 5 / 4
> Appassionata ----------------- 8 / 6 / 6 / 6 / 4
> Berlin Strings ----------------- 8 / 6 / 5 / 5 / 4
> Venice Modern Strings ------- 8 / 6 / 5 / 5 / 3
> Synchron Elite ---------------- 6 / 5 / 4 / 4 / 3
> 
> Sorry, I'm just waiting for the download to finish


I’d love to hear it blended with SCS, if you please 🙂


----------



## Robert_G

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Paul showed something about how you can “dial down” the release.


I'm not sure that will be enough. Spitfire's other Air Studio libs are notoriously difficult to mix other libs with.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

filipjonathan said:


> What happened with the giveaway?


happened in the live chat as usual


----------



## filipjonathan

Fever Phoenix said:


> happened in the live chat as usual


Ah, didn't even read the chat


----------



## RogiervG

Not really impressed with the violins.. the celli sound good though.
low dynamic Violins have a repeating attack that doesn't appear to be round robin. (gives a sort of sucking effect) Higher dynamics sound better.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Robert_G said:


> I'm not sure that will be enough. Spitfire's other Air Studio libs are notoriously difficult to mix other libs with.


I have the same problem but then again I’m no good at mixing 🙂


----------



## gst98

Sounds pretty incredible, SF knocked this one out of the park, downloading now! And awesome to see an @Blakus demo for this one!


----------



## Fever Phoenix

gst98 said:


> Sounds pretty incredible, SF knocked this one out of the park, downloading now! And awesome to see an @Blakus demo for this one!


the blakus demo is beautiful!


----------



## Raphioli

filipjonathan said:


> Ah, didn't even read the chat


It was the year of their first recording at AIR Studios.

I didn't bother to answer though. Because I was like, take my money!
This library definitely deserves it. This really makes me want to look forward to AR module series.


----------



## RogiervG

is it free for people who own sss pro and scs pro?  or bought it the last few months.. haha


----------



## Casiquire

ALittleNightMusic said:


> If you're looking for spiccatos in a legato library, you might be looking in the wrong place lol. They have recorded many shorts over the years in AIR that can blend with this though.


I don't own their other libraries


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

RogiervG said:


> is it free for people who own sss pro and scs pro?  or bought it the last few months.. haha


Totally new recordings - but you do get an extra 10% off for owning those.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Spitfire’s player is the only one of all these new propriety players that I like using too 🙂


----------



## Fleer

Anyone know the size (or did I miss that)?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Fleer said:


> Anyone know the size (or did I miss that)?


82 GB









Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Appassionata Strings






www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## mixedmoods

Was there any mention of Vibrato options? I didn't hear much in the demos but would expect some vibrato an library focussed on passionate / emotional writing ...


----------



## jbuhler

Robert_G said:


> I'm not sure that will be enough. Spitfire's other Air Studio libs are notoriously difficult to mix other libs with.


I don't find this to be the case. It's hard to mix Air libraries to other spaces, but I don't find it all that difficult to get other libraries to sit in Air. The OT Teldex stuff, for instance, plays very nicely as Air supplements.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

Fleer said:


> Anyone know the size (or did I miss that)?


82 GB


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Casiquire said:


> I don't own their other libraries


Sounds like an opportunity to change that!

They have recorded a couple of shorter arts, which Paul demonstrated. But this library's focus is not on short notes. It's on rich, expressive legato.

Glancing Attack
Hairpin (Short)


----------



## Bee_Abney

Scamper said:


> Finally great legatos from Spitfire. Makes me very optimistic for the upcoming modular Abbey Road 1 orchestra.
> 
> Hope we'll soon get the purge functionality for the Spitfire Player or this will blow up RAM like nothing with those 5 dynamic layers.
> 
> I'm not totally sure how the size fits in with SCS and SSS. 8/6/6/6/4 is right in between the others and it might not be so seamless to use it just as the SCS/SSS legato. Otherwise, a lovely size for string sections - broad, yet detailed.
> 
> Also, I'm very curious what this "impulse legato" actually means in the way it's recorded.



At a guess, I'd think that the impulse element of the legato involves some form of sound morphing in the manner of echoing one sound (the first note?) through another (the second note?). But more complex than that, including samples of the changeover.

I could only watch the beginning of the video, so this may conflict with what was said later.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

mixedmoods said:


> Was there any mention of Vibrato options? I didn't hear much in the demos but would expect some vibrato an library focussed on passionate / emotional writing ...


No direct vibrato control, but you get more vibrato with the higher dynamic layers.


----------



## Robert_G

jbuhler said:


> I don't find this to be the case. It's hard to mix Air libraries to other spaces, but I don't find it all that difficult to get other libraries to sit in Air. The OT Teldex stuff, for instance, plays very nicely as Air supplements.


Where can you purchase the AIR room to use with other drier libraries?


----------



## LTS

Sounds incredible! Tears in my eyes... thank you Spitfire!


----------



## RogiervG

Bought them. Nice price, Lyndhurst hall (fits nicely with many other libs from SF), and the demo songs sound very good (strings wise):









Now to find free disk space


----------



## Consona




----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Not sure I need a legato only library though tbh, no matter how great it sounds.


----------



## borisb2

Oh..
my..
god..

these strings sound so good! Instant buy..

@Spitfire Team .. pleeeeeeease for StaffPad as well


----------



## Justin L. Franks

Robert_G said:


> Where can you purchase the AIR room to use with other drier libraries?


You just need to use a touch of the same external reverb on both libraries (a bit more depending on the dryness of the other library) as 'glue'. Don't overthink it.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Instant buy! I was about to pull the trigger on VSL Appassionata, but the Legatos in this are exquisite and the intro price is a no brainer.


----------



## jbuhler

Robert_G said:


> Where can you purchase the AIR room to use with other drier libraries?


I tend not to use dry libraries, so that is part of it. But Teldex, for instance, with choice of mics and a bit of reverb can "borrow" from the sound of other Air libraries to sit reasonably well in it. Well enough that I really don't much think about it. For whatever reason, I find the two sounds of the two spaces are quite complementary. But in my experience it's far more difficult to mix an Air library into something set up to the Teldex sound. Fortunately, I really like the Air sound...


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

How are you gonna play a passage with mixed articulations with a blend of AS and SCS or SSS, when AS only has legato?


----------



## jbuhler

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Not sure I need a legato only library though tbh, no matter how great it sounds.


I paid less for it with the discount than I paid for legato only Vista on sale, and Vista doesn't have second violins.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

jbuhler said:


> I paid less for it with the discount than I paid for legato only Vista on sale, and Vista doesn't have second violins.


Yeah the price (especially for SSO / SCS owners) is a no brainer - $161! Glad I didn't buy Vista.


----------



## Cdnalsi

Would this library work alright as "leaders" on top of BBCSO?

I also wonder if it's cheaper than BBCSO's Core to Pro upgrade?


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

If only I could edit the legato like in Kontakt :(


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> How are you gonna play a passage with mixed articulations with a blend of AS and SCS or SSS, when AS only has legato?


Separate tracks? Just like folks do today that use one track per articulation.


----------



## Evans

Sounds like if you _are_ invested in AIR - especially, any of the libraries that earn you a discount on this one - it's one of those possible "no brainer" prices.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> How are you gonna play a passage with mixed articulations with a blend of AS and SCS or SSS, when AS only has legato?


It has legato, longs, and two shorts. I don't know the full list.

It doesn't match their other libraries articulation for articulation, or in section size. Perhaps that isn't necessary.


----------



## aka70

Audio Imperia and Performance Samples released a story in FB and Instagram. Now that's what I'd call amazing sound and legato. You have to listen to that.


----------



## CT

Well this one seems made just for me, thank you. 

It is one thing to call your library "Appassionata," but it is another to deliver something living up to the name... from the amount of thought and work that seems to have gone into this, and the demos (!), I'd say it has been delivered.


----------



## jbuhler

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> How are you gonna play a passage with mixed articulations with a blend of AS and SCS or SSS, when AS only has legato?


For a mixed line, you might have to use a different library. (Don't know yet since I'm still waiting for the download to finish.) But in the context of a larger piece you can move in and out of various libraries. If I can keep the image relatively consistent, I find I can move pretty freely among various string libraries without it sounding like I'm changing orchestras from phrase to phrase.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Separate tracks? Just like folks do today that use one track per articulation.


I mean, so you blend legato SCS with legato AS - fine, no problem. But when you want to play a passage alternating between legato, staccato etc., you can’t really do that since AS has no shorts??


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

jbuhler said:


> For a mixed line, you might have to use a different library. (Don't know yet since I'm still waiting for the download to finish.) But in the context of a larger piece you can move in and out of various libraries. If I can keep the image relatively consistent, I find I can move pretty freely among various string libraries without it sounding like I'm changing orchestras from phrase to phrase.


I was thinking about simple lines with not too much going on, that’s why. I can see how it can work in busier passages 🙂


----------



## Karma

DarkestShadow said:


> If only I could edit the legato like in Kontakt :(


In this case I'd be very surprised if you needed to


----------



## jamessy

Would it be unfair to compare this to something like Solos of the Sea violins from PS? It seems like it does one thing really well but how often do you need legato and nothing else?


----------



## mybadmemory

Cdnalsi said:


> Would this library work alright as "leaders" on top of BBCSO?
> 
> I also wonder if it's cheaper than BBCSO's Core to Pro upgrade?


It’s not leaders. It’s sections.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

jamessy said:


> Would it be unfair to compare this to something like Solos of the Sea violins from PS? It seems like it does one thing really well but how often do you need legato and nothing else?


More like Vista


----------



## Cdnalsi

mybadmemory said:


> It’s not leaders. It’s sections.


I know, but they're a smaller section, that's why I was thinking of using them_ as if _they're leaders.


----------



## CT

jamessy said:


> Would it be unfair to compare this to something like Solos of the Sea violins from PS? It seems like it does one thing really well but how often do you need legato and nothing else?


Quite often, depending on your manner of writing!


----------



## Casiquire

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Sounds like an opportunity to change that!
> 
> They have recorded a couple of shorter arts, which Paul demonstrated. But this library's focus is not on short notes. It's on rich, expressive legato.
> 
> Glancing Attack
> Hairpin (Short)


I was hoping this would be a good entry point, but without any other libraries recorded there I'd really like to have some more shorts. Spitfire always makes one huge glaring obstacle from getting me to buy lol!


----------



## jbuhler

jamessy said:


> Would it be unfair to compare this to something like Solos of the Sea violins from PS? It seems like it does one thing really well but how often do you need legato and nothing else?


If you are going to compare it to something it would be to Soaring Strings or Vista, I think.


----------



## yiph2

Casiquire said:


> I was hoping this would be a good entry point, but without any other libraries recorded there I'd really like to have some more shorts. Spitfire always makes one huge glaring obstacle from getting me to buy lol!


Its from AIR studios so theres loads (unless you are joking  )


----------



## jamessy

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> More like Vista


Much more appropriate comparison thank you. Can you tell I have one and not the other? lol


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

APPENDIX B — TECHNIQUES/MICS/MIXES

TECHNIQUES

LEGATO
LEGATO SLURRED
SUSTAIN
HAIRPIN SHORT
HAIRPIN MEDIUM
HAIRPIN BOW CHANGE
GLANCING ATTACK

MICROPHONES

MIX 1
MIX 2
MIX 3
MIX 4
STEREO ROOM
MIDS
CLOSE
CLOSE RIBBON
TREE
AMBIENT
OUTRIGGERS


----------



## Manaberry

Did SA rename to "Strings Audio"?


----------



## ism

Robert_G said:


> I'm not sure that will be enough. Spitfire's other Air Studio libs are notoriously difficult to mix other libs with.


Yes and no. I'd say that AIR lyndhurst libraries have the most spatially distinct sound. But this is a lot more that just wetness. I find it perfectly easy to blend OT libraries with it. But it comes out more like the OT musicians have joined the SF musicians in AIR more than the other way around ... if that makes any sense?


----------



## gst98

So there are 3 Legato dyn and 5 Sustain - does anyone know if the legato articulation uses the 3 Leg mapped to 5 Sus or to 3 Sus? The manual makes me think its 3 mapped to 5: 

LEGATO INFORMATION 
CC1 Dynamic peak points:

ff - 127 (100%) f - 95 (75%) mf - 64 (50%) mp - 31 (25%) pp - 9 (7.5%)


----------



## Casiquire

yiph2 said:


> Its from AIR studios so theres loads (unless you are joking  )


Not on my hard drive 😉 so I'd have to spend another few hundred bucks which defeats the purpose


----------



## Karma

gst98 said:


> So there are 3 Legato dyn and 5 Sustain - does anyone know if the legato articulation uses the 3 Leg mapped to 5 Sus or to 3 Sus? The manual makes me think its 3 mapped to 5:
> 
> LEGATO INFORMATION
> CC1 Dynamic peak points:
> 
> ff - 127 (100%) f - 95 (75%) mf - 64 (50%) mp - 31 (25%) pp - 9 (7.5%)


5!


----------



## ModalRealist

I'm interested in knowing up to what kind of tempo the legato holds up for quarter and eights notes (and indeed how it sounds doing runs and/or ornaments), for those of you who've bought it!

Either which way, the sound is lovely.


----------



## Zanshin

Casiquire said:


> I was hoping this would be a good entry point, but without any other libraries recorded there I'd really like to have some more shorts. Spitfire always makes one huge glaring obstacle from getting me to buy lol!


Intimate Strings would you get you shorts in Air that would sound the part for cheap, but if you want section shorts no bueno


----------



## gst98

Karma said:


> 5!


Thank you!


----------



## Casiquire

Zanshin said:


> Intimate Strings would you get you shorts in Air that would sound the part for cheap, but if you want section shorts no bueno


Ah good call! I might genuinely look into that. Air sounds lovely and if the focus is on legato I think we can safely expect them to be solid


----------



## robgb

I watched the run-through. I honestly can't see how this legato is any better than the legato I have in other libraries. I'm getting to the point where I've run out of excuses to buy new libraries.


----------



## jbuhler

robgb said:


> I watched the run-through. I honestly can't see how this legato is any better than the legato I have in other libraries. I'm getting to the point where I've run out of excuses to buy new libraries.


If you aren't hearing it or feeling it, then you don't need it!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

TECHNIQUES

LEGATO

The core legato technique - a combination of slurred & détaché intervals, in up to 3 dynamics (pp, mf, ff), with repetition based alt-attacks, vibrato and velocity controlled switching between legato types.

Violins 1, Violins 2 and Cellos also include a particularly unique and intense Portamento, on the top string (from high E on Violins, from high A on Cellos) for intervals over a 5th.

LEGATO INFORMATION

CC1 Dynamic peak points:
ff - 127 (100%)
f - 95 (75%)
mf - 64 (50%)
mp - 31 (25%)
pp - 9 (7.5%)

Slurred transitions for all instruments sections occur between Velocities 1-99 and overlapping the MIDI notes.

Détaché transitions for all instruments occur between Velocities 100-127 and overlapping the MIDI notes.

Portamento transitions are available for Violins 1, Violins 2 and Cellos between Velocities 120-127 and overlapping the MIDI notes, but only from E4 on Violins for intervals over a 5th, and from A2 on Cellos for intervals over a 5th.

The Legato Offset control changes all interval types so you can go from 100ms (responsive) to 150ms (more latency but sounds more natural).

LEGATO SLURRED

A slurred legato, with 3 dynamics of slurred intervals and repetition based alt-attacks.

SUSTAIN

A sustained note, recorded at 5 discrete dynamics (pp, mp, mf, f, ff) with Vibrato, and 4 round robbins.

HAIRPIN SHORT

A short hairpin, utilising the alt-attacks.

HAIRPIN MEDIUM

A medium hairpin, utilising the body of the alt-attacks.

HAIRPIN BOW CHANGE

A long hairpin, featuring the bow-change used in capturing the sustain.

GLANCING ATTACK

A short brushed bow, ideal for accenting notes.

APPASSIONATA STRINGS 23
USER MANU


----------



## RogiervG

robgb said:


> I watched the run-through. I honestly can't see how this legato is any better than the legato I have in other libraries. I'm getting to the point where I've run out of excuses to buy new libraries.


the character/room info is also important. Not only legato playing/programming .
Air lyndhurst has something special in it.. Abbey Road 1 also. Both make the sound getting lush/wider/warm. it gives it a certain filmic character. Less boxy studio sound. You like it or you don't  (matter of taste in the end)


----------



## Bee_Abney

jbuhler said:


> If you aren't hearing it or feeling it, then you don't need it!


But what about your audience?


----------



## AMBi

robgb said:


> I watched the run-through. I honestly can't see how this legato is any better than the legato I have in other libraries. I'm getting to the point where I've run out of excuses to buy new libraries.


I’ve been feeling the same
But for such a great price it’s pretty much in perfect impulse buy territory so I’ll most likely pick it up regardless haha


----------



## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> But what about your audience?


Just asked. Mum says Soaring Strings are just fine.


----------



## juliandoe

How to buy: 
1. Watch your library catalog first and tell yourself that you need a new library. 
2. Watch your wife/husband/fiancè/parents, and tell her/him/them that you really need a new library.
3. Watch your bank account and tell yourself that you really really need a new library.

if you're still alive, you haven't received a death threat, and nobody is screaming in the house, you can buy the library.

Enjoy

...and wish me luck. I'm at point 2.


----------



## doctoremmet

juliandoe said:


> How to buy:
> 1. Watch your library catalog first and tell yourself that you need a new library.
> 2. Watch your wife/husband/fiancè/parents, and tell her/him/them that you really need a new library.
> 3. Watch your bank account and tell yourself that you really really need a new library.
> 
> if you're still alive, you haven't received a death threat, and nobody is screaming in the house, you can buy the library.
> 
> Enjoy
> 
> ...and wish me luck. I'm at point 2.


At this point:

Step 1-A: check the hall and whether you are collecting stuff from that place. I’m in camp AR - ah chill…. /process-ended


----------



## RogiervG

juliandoe said:


> How to buy:
> 1. Watch your library catalog first and tell yourself that you need a new library.
> 2. Watch your wife/husband/fiancè/parents, and tell her/him/them that you really need a new library.
> 3. Watch your bank account and tell yourself that you really really need a new library.
> 
> if you're still alive, you haven't received a death threat, and nobody is screaming in the house, you can buy the library.
> 
> Enjoy
> 
> ...and wish me luck. I'm at point 2.


lol, passed all three (and four)


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Casiquire said:


> Not on my hard drive 😉 so I'd have to spend another few hundred bucks which defeats the purpose


Were you really expecting a fully comprehensive (in terms of articulation) library for less than $200?

I called it!


ALittleNightMusic said:


> I hope this library ONLY has legato so we can get a thread complaining that people don’t even use legato.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

gst98 said:


> So there are 3 Legato dyn and 5 Sustain - does anyone know if the legato articulation uses the 3 Leg mapped to 5 Sus or to 3 Sus? The manual makes me think its 3 mapped to 5:
> 
> LEGATO INFORMATION
> CC1 Dynamic peak points:
> 
> ff - 127 (100%) f - 95 (75%) mf - 64 (50%) mp - 31 (25%) pp - 9 (7.5%)


I’m confused too 😃


----------



## SupremeFist

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I’m confused too 😃


So the legato patches only have 3 dynamic layers, or they have 5 dynamic layers in the sustain portion but only 3 layers in the legato transition?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I mean, so you blend legato SCS with legato AS - fine, no problem. But when you want to play a passage alternating between legato, staccato etc., you can’t really do that since AS has no shorts??


That's where you'll want to use SSS or SCS shorts - Paul mentioned that it should blend well (despite the different section sizes).


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

“The core legato technique - a combination of slurred & détaché intervals, in up to 3 dynamics (pp, mf, ff)“

…then right below:

“LEGATO INFORMATION
CC1 Dynamic peak points:
ff - 127 (100%)
f - 95 (75%) 
mf - 64 (50%) 
mp - 31 (25%) 
pp - 9 (7.5%)”


----------



## NYC Composer

doctoremmet said:


> Just asked. Mum says Soaring Strings are just fine.


Which I already have, and which is going to be my comp.


----------



## Brasart

This 160€ price point makes it quite enticing now doesn't it... And those demos!


----------



## artomatic

Such a pleasant surprise from SA. And a lovely library.
And the price is so good, I think I'll buy 3!!


----------



## Fry777

I'm actually curious to hear from people who were recently claiming that "legato is not everything"


----------



## NYC Composer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> That's where you'll want to use SSS or SCS shorts - Paul mentioned that it should blend well (despite the different section sizes).


SCS are my favorite shorts. I hope this is true in terms of matching sizes.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

SupremeFist said:


> So the legato patches only have 3 dynamic layers, or they have 5 dynamic layers in the sustain portion but only 3 layers in the legato transition?


Yep. Thanks 🙂👍


----------



## Baronvonheadless

This looks amazing, but I don’t know if it makes vista not worth having. Like vista is romantic and sweeping but is also pretty fast and agile. I wonder how fast these strings can be? So far I’ve only heard slow and sweeping but not necessarily quick and agile?


----------



## zeng

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> More like Vista


Anyone have Vista in library buying also this one?


----------



## RogiervG

While soaring strings (which i have too) is good (as some here mentioned)... this Appassionata library is rather cheap currently, has the Lyndhurst room, and sounds great too..

and besides: YOU CANNOT HAVE ENOUGH STRING LIBRARIES


----------



## zeng

Baronvonheadless said:


> This looks amazing, but I don’t know if it makes vista not worth having. Like vista is romantic and sweeping but is also pretty fast and agile. I wonder how fast these strings can be? So far I’ve only heard slow and sweeping but not necessarily quick and agile?


Do you have Vista?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

ALittleNightMusic said:


> That's where you'll want to use SSS or SCS shorts - Paul mentioned that it should blend well (despite the different section sizes).


Yes, use AS for legato and then SCS for shorts, that I can see.

But if you want to blend AS legato and SCS legato, then play short notes afterwards….guess transposition trick with SCS shorts could work, or layer RR x 2.


----------



## robgb

RogiervG said:


> the character/room info is also important. Not only legato playing/programming .
> Air lyndhurst has something special in it.. Abbey Road 1 also. Both make the sound getting lush/wider/warm. it gives it a certain filmic character. Less boxy studio sound. You like it or you don't  (matter of taste in the end)


I prefer dry libraries, personally. To each his own.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

zeng said:


> Do you have Vista?


Yeah I have vista. I wanted something sweeping and heavy vibrato to compliment MSS.


----------



## DID CHOI

Honestly disappointed again. It's improved from their previous legatos, but it still sounds like Spitfire Legato. The demos still have the trademark "humps" that other libraries like CSS, Vista, MSS have gotten rid of. 
I adore the tone, but think it'll be a pass for me once again


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

zeng said:


> Anyone have Vista in library buying also this one?


Vista has fewer articulations recorded, fewer dynamic layers / legato RR / attack options, no second violins, and is not recorded at AIR Studios.


----------



## robgb

AMBi said:


> I’ve been feeling the same
> But for such a great price it’s pretty much in perfect impulse buy territory so I’ll most likely pick it up regardless haha


If it were $49, I might agree. But for library that does only legato, the price seems steep to me.


----------



## RogiervG

robgb said:


> I prefer dry libraries, personally. To each his own.


Indeed, which is actually a good thing! Otherwise we would all be the same in preferences.  
There are so many beautiful libraries, each can pick the libs that suits best.


----------



## zeng

Baronvonheadless said:


> Yeah I have vista. I wanted something sweeping and heavy vibrato to compliment MSS.


I also have Vista and thinking if I should buy this one or not...not because of the money, it is getting harder to choose a library combination when starting a new project  should I use Vista, or this one, both of them...combinations combinations ) well, really, what do you think?


----------



## NYC Composer

Baronvonheadless said:


> This looks amazing, but I don’t know if it makes vista not worth having. Like vista is romantic and sweeping but is also pretty fast and agile. I wonder how fast these strings can be? So far I’ve only heard slow and sweeping but not necessarily quick and agile?


I’ve never owned nor heard an agile Spitfire string library, so I’d be pleasantly surprised if this one is.


----------



## doctoremmet

zeng said:


> I also have Vista and thinking if I should buy this one or not...not because of the money, it is getting harder to choose a library combination when starting a new project  should I use Vista, or this one, both of them...combinations combinations ) well, really, what do you think?


Diminish your option stress and do not buy this one. You’ll be fine.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

@Blakus First time I've seen you do a demo for Spitfire - please tell us your honest opinions!


----------



## Noeticus

I love "Appassionata Strings"........ ahh from VSL.

From Monty Python... "Have you confused your cat recently?"


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

robgb said:


> If it were $49, I might agree. But for library that does only legato, the price seems steep to me.


Vista was $339 at launch though, $249 during intro


----------



## RogiervG

doctoremmet said:


> Diminish your option stress and *do* buy this one. You’ll be fine.


there i corrected it for you


----------



## ashX

Am I the only one not amazed or 'excited' by that legato sound? I mean it is much better than previous legatos made by Spitfire but still not as good as in Vista, CSS, Soaring Strings etc.
And also they didnt show fast runs, fast legato passages.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

robgb said:


> If it were $49, I might agree. But for library that does only legato, the price seems steep to me.


It has more thank legato. For example, it also has sustains.


----------



## Scamper

I don't know if the legato beats CSS or Vista, but I know the sound of AIR is by far my favorite of those three.
F it, I'll get it for the crossgrade price. If it hasn't happened yet, I'll try to post demos integrating it with SCS and SSS.


----------



## robgb

Fry777 said:


> I'm actually curious to hear from people who were recently claiming that "legato is not everything"


I think there's quite an obsession with legato, and I'm not sure why. How often do we really need legato? How often do orchestras or scores actually use it? I honestly don't know the answer, but it seems to me that it's far less than our obsession with it would suggest.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ashX said:


> Am I the only one not amazed or 'excited' by that legato sound? I mean it is much better than previous legatos made by Spitfire but still not as good as in Vista, CSS, Soaring Strings etc.
> And also they didnt show fast runs, fast legato passages.


From what I heard in the video demo, one of the best I've heard IMO. I don't think it's a library meant for fast runs, but more lush, emotional pieces.


----------



## AMBi

robgb said:


> If it were $49, I might agree. But for library that does only legato, the price seems steep to me.


I agree to an extent since I passed on Vista for that price recently, but these feel more “neutral” sounding so I think I’ll get more use out of them.

Affirm + 6 month payment makes it feel like I spent nothing at all since I don’t feel the hit of my wallet for a while
…or so that’s what I like to tell myself since it totally adds up over time


----------



## robgb

Jeremy Spencer said:


> It has more thank legato. For example, it also has sustains.


Oh, in that case $69.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Scamper said:


> I don't know if the legato beats CSS or Vista, but I know the sound of AIR is by far my favorite of those three.
> F it, I'll get it for the crossgrade price. If it hasn't happened yet, I'll try to post demos integrating it with SCS and SSS.


Thank you! Taking one for the team 😎❤️


----------



## RogiervG

robgb said:


> How often do orchestras or scores actually use it?


More than you think! If you look at many scores, you will see quite a lot of legato parts throughout.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

robgb said:


> How often do orchestras or scores actually use it?


A lot.


----------



## Noeticus

VSL has a library coming out later today called "Spitfire Strings"!

That was an attempt at humor.

🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷


----------



## Jett Hitt

This seemed like a no brainer at $161.85. Combined with SSS or SCS, this should be pretty powerful. I have lots of shorts. Maybe I will feel differently after it downloads, but at this price, I can take the chance. I will be curious to play with it and compare the cellos to BSS.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

RogiervG said:


> More than you think! If you look at many scores, you will see quite a lot of legato parts throughout.


@JohnG 🙂


----------



## zeng

robgb said:


> I think there's quite an obsession with legato, and I'm not sure why. How often do we really need legato? How often do orchestras or scores actually use it? I honestly don't know the answer, but it seems to me that it's far less than our obsession with it would suggest.


I like to write chords with legato patches instead of sustain patches especially if the piece has lots of chord transitions...so legatos are important for me in that way.


----------



## robgb

Jeremy Spencer said:


> A lot.


I'll take your word for it, but I remain unconvinced that it warrants our obsession with it.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Well, for the less than nothing it is worth, my opinion is positive based on what I've heard and read. The price is of a piece with Spitfire's generally, as is the 25% off intro price (rising to 35% as a loyalty bonus).

Good stuff all round. Did the advance advertising say fifteen years in the making? That's rot, of course. But we knew that!

I hope it proves a great new addition for those who buy it.


----------



## Iskra

I think the legato sounds great, and have the shorts (and all the rest of stuff) covered by SCS and SS.
Price is really good owning the other libraries (very nice touch from Spitfire), and honestly, even for a higher price, Dan Keen's demo convinced me in a heartbeat. Amazing piece.
Also I have fast & runs legato covered by SCS (best fast legato ever).
I don't own Vista or CSS though, so YMMV


----------



## Casiquire

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Were you really expecting a fully comprehensive (in terms of articulation) library for less than $200?
> 
> I called it!


I wasn't expecting anything for under 200


----------



## NoamL

This is really good. More review later. This is probably gonna be my workhorse strings moving forward though, side by side with CSS.


----------



## Raphioli

Noeticus said:


> VSL has a library coming out later today called "Spitfire Strings"!
> 
> That was an attempt at humor.
> 
> 🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷


In that case, it should be named "Game Changer Strings "


----------



## RogiervG

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> @JohnG 🙂


Not sure what you imply here?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

NoamL said:


> This is really good. More review later. This is probably gonna be my workhorse strings moving forward though, side by side with CSS.


Wow, sounds good


----------



## robgb

I'm also amazed by our obsession with Spitfire, but then as most of you know, I'm a contrarian by nature.


----------



## Zanshin

robgb said:


> I'm also amazed by our obsession with Spitfire, but then as most of you know, I'm a contrarian by nature.


It is good to know our own nature


----------



## Wagnersliszt

NoamL said:


> The new library is strings! https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-appassionata-strings/
> 
> *Hype and chatter *on pages 1-18
> 
> *Release day discussion* starts on page 18





Robert_G said:


> 2 years ago I said I wouldn't buy anything ever again from Spitfire. This one might break me.
> My concern is the room. It will be hard to mix with other libraries. If there is a whole Appassionata series to follow, I might get this one.


It's a very interesting point. I'm just starting out and there are some very obvious libraries on my shortlist (CSS, Berlin Woodwinds, Cinematic Brass etc - i've already got BBCSO pro) so this is ever so important. I need to know it's not going to turn into a 'swamp' (overly wet) the more spitfire I add, and if it starts to go that way is there a way out.


----------



## prodigalson

Fry777 said:


> I'm actually curious to hear from people who were recently claiming that "legato is not everything"


Legato is not everything but it is, in fact, a thing. 

Meaning, its important to have good legatos in your toolbox but not every library needs to have legato to be useful.


----------



## PaxJupp

ashX said:


> Am I the only one not amazed or 'excited' by that legato sound? I mean it is much better than previous legatos made by Spitfire but still not as good as in Vista, CSS, Soaring Strings etc.
> And also they didnt show fast runs, fast legato passages.


Nah same here. No shade towards SA intended, but I listened to the demos and watched the walkthroughs and meh not for me. Vista, CSS are still better in my books. 

I feel like SA does so many things well, the evo grid was a game changer, the OA chamber waves, etc. But they just can’t seem to crack the legato code - in my opinion. Which is honestly fine with me as the stuff I score never really calls for legato, I just don’t make that kind of music. Only very rarely do I need to reach for it, and then I’ll use CSS.


----------



## Scamper

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Thank you! Taking one for the team 😎❤️


Good legato - often a cause for GAS relapse.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

robgb said:


> I'll take your word for it, but I remain unconvinced that it warrants our obsession with it.


I agree there is an obsession! We are spoiled with choices now, and take the tech for granted (me included).


----------



## el-bo

That Dan Keen piece is beautiful. 

Library sounds lovely, to my newb-ears


----------



## filipjonathan

robgb said:


> I think there's quite an obsession with legato, and I'm not sure why. How often do we really need legato? How often do orchestras or scores actually use it? I honestly don't know the answer, but it seems to me that it's far less than our obsession with it would suggest.


Are you sarcastic or?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

robgb said:


> I think there's quite an obsession with legato, and I'm not sure why. How often do we really need legato? How often do orchestras or scores actually use it? I honestly don't know the answer, but it seems to me that it's far less than our obsession with it would suggest.


You're asking "How often do you play two notes next to each other?"

"Legato" in sample library terminology does not mean the same thing as "legato" in performance/notation terms. In sample terms, it means _any _kind of recorded transition between notes.

If you want to just play old-style sustain patches without recorded transitions, though, you'll save a lot of money that way.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

prodigalson said:


> Legato is not everything but it is, in fact, a thing.
> 
> Meaning, its important to have good legatos in your toolbox but not every library needs to have legato to be useful.


Having good legatos is most important with strings, enough to really be a requirement IMO. Woodwinds it is still fairly important, but not quite as necessary as strings. Brass on the other hand, with the possible exception of the horns, I would prioritize good multitongues and shorts over good legatos.

Of course, what counts as "good" legato can vary greatly from person to person. I actually really like the legatos in SCS. Appassionata does a better job at the expressive, soaring lines, but that is its basic purpose, so of course it is. But I think SCS does quite well with fast and agile legatos. Other people strongly disagree.


----------



## RogiervG

Sarah Mancuso said:


> You're asking "How often do you play two notes next to each other?"
> 
> "Legato" in sample library terminology does not mean the same thing as "legato" in performance/notation terms. In sample terms, it means _any _kind of recorded transition between notes.
> 
> If you want to just play old-style sustain patches without recorded transitions, though, you'll save a lot of money that way.


Well.. Real world legato has connecting notes (which sustain does not), which in many instruments result in a transition "artifact " sound between the notes, even ever so slightly (often a kind of little portamento like artifact: again KIND of.. thus not portamento). Listen very carefully to a legato phrase with a real string section, vs that same phrase played non legato.. you can hear a difference (from very little to quite a bit, still different sonic effect), same with woodwinds (like an oboe).


----------



## mybadmemory

Cdnalsi said:


> I know, but they're a smaller section, that's why I was thinking of using them_ as if _they're leaders.


But they don’t sound like leaders at all. They sound like sections. Very nice sections, but a very different sound from a single instrument.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

gst98 said:


> Vista is 4 leg dynamics + 5th for violins, compared to this with 3 (but 5 sus), so no, not really. SF does not have leg RR, but sus RR. They both have attack options, vista has varied attacks styles, whereas SF has RR attacks. The violin and viola sustains JB gave out for free have 9 dynamics. At the end of the day they both sound great and sound different enough to both get use.


Yes, really.

From the Vista page:

4 dynamic layers, from PP to FFF
From the Spitfire page:

5 discrete dynamic levels (pp, mp, mf, f, ff) with 4 Round Robin ‘Impulse Attacks’
Slurred and Bowed Legato *intervals* with up to 3 dynamic levels
Vista never sounded good to me, the legato was nothing special compared to CSS and other libraries - lot of hype from the Jasper Blunk lovers. The demos for AS sound incredible, much better.


----------



## Jackal_King

Definitely getting this library this weekend. I just wished that the legato in SStS was this fluid and good. It's a good library for almost every other articulation, but the legato and weird volume jumps on notes seems to be its struggles. This should hold me off for awhile until I get Synchron Strings Pro later this year.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

robgb said:


> I watched the run-through. I honestly can't see how this legato is any better than the legato I have in other libraries. I'm getting to the point where I've run out of excuses to buy new libraries.


You're running out of gas. My recommendation is to eat more beans.


----------



## coprhead6

coprhead6 said:


> I’m hoping it’s an updated SCS, but it’s most likely just a one-trick legato library similar to their Symphonic Motions release. Motions filled the gap of short note repetitions in the Air Studios libraries and I think this could be the same but for emotional legato.
> 
> Also if this was a whole new strings library I would imagine they would roll out the red carpet of Hype instead of just posting an image riddle.



Nailed it


----------



## RogiervG

Justin L. Franks said:


> Having good legatos is most important with strings, enough to really be a requirement IMO. Woodwinds it is still fairly important, but not quite as necessary as strings. Brass on the other hand, with the possible exception of the horns, I would prioritize good multitongues and shorts over good legatos.
> 
> Of course, what counts as "good" legato can vary greatly from person to person. I actually really like the legatos in SCS. Appassionata does a better job at the expressive, soaring lines, but that is its basic purpose, so of course it is. But I think SCS does quite well with fast and agile legatos. Other people strongly disagree.


Yes, indeed SCS has good legato's, though not a passionate type (pun intended) 
Appassionata strings fills that gap for the... *drumroll* soaring/passionate needs.. (it bet it works well together, heck even with SSS, as a soaring divisi line here and there)


----------



## Sunny Schramm

F... new Legatos - bought it just for the beautiful colored GUI 😊


----------



## borisb2

el-bo said:


> That Dan Keen piece is beautiful.


the only "artefact" is that one string run in the middle of the piece .. that sounds a bit thin

to me Pauls "Twilight Of The Shades" was the selling piece .. absolutely magical. I'm not the biggest fan of Spitfires marketing .. but these beautiful written notes played by those stunning samples was an instant order "you need to buy this ..now!"

.. download is pretty slow though .. wonder why


----------



## mussnig

DarkestShadow said:


> If only I could edit the legato like in Kontakt :(


Since when can you edit the legatos in Spitfire’s Kontakt patches. Usually they are locked ...


----------



## RogiervG

Sunny Schramm said:


> bought it just for the beautiful colored GUI 😊


The best reason the buy it.. it should match you tshirt color.


----------



## Bluemount Score

I think the price is fair and it's the best legato I've heard from Spitfire Audio yet. Sounds very good to me in fact - what I don't know is what gap it would fill in my template


----------



## robgb

Sarah Mancuso said:


> In sample terms, it means _any _kind of recorded transition between notes.


Well, actually, it can also mean scripted transitions...


----------



## coprhead6

I bought Vista specifically to blend with SCS and SSS and it sounds AMAZING with SCS. It's a bit overwhelming with SSS because the sections become too big, but it's incredible with with SCS because it warms them up and hides some of the poor legato transitions. However, the softer dynamics are not there. This will fill that gap wonderfully.


----------



## el-bo

borisb2 said:


> the only "artefact" is that one string run in the middle of the piece .. that sounds a bit thin


Didn't hear it. I clicked on it to hear the library, but got completely swept away by the music. The library disappeared...which I think is a good sign


----------



## robgb

mussnig said:


> Usually they are locked ...


As if that means anything to enterprising people...


----------



## toomanynotes

robgb said:


> I think there's quite an obsession with legato, and I'm not sure why. How often do we really need legato? How often do orchestras or scores actually use it? I honestly don't know the answer, but it seems to me that it's far less than our obsession with it would suggest.


The reason for the obession is, that composers who have had a swimmingly good life and good up bringing; with nice parents don’t have a sad story to tell and therefore their music is usually totally devoid of emotion. Fustrated with this fact, they hope better emotional strings will make them sound more like they’ve had a tragic life. That in itself is sad.


----------



## RogiervG

robgb said:


> As if that means anything to enterprising people...


lol, it means paying more...


----------



## Rudianos

Sounds lovely. But I need some VI member snippets and if possible a comparison to Vista and BSS. Thanks in advance.


----------



## RogiervG

toomanynotes said:


> The reason for the obession is, that composers who have had a swimmingly good life and good up bringing; with nice parents don’t have a sad story to tell and therefore their music is usually totally devoid of emotion. Fustrated with this fact, they hope better emotional strings will make them sound more like they’ve had a tragic life. That in itself is sad.


Not sure if sarcatic/joking.. but.. in any case you are more serious:
no obsession here though... but like real strings section can, you have multiple interpretations in legato playing, and not every library offers them all (and even if they do, they won't sound the same between libs, just like different orchestra's sound different in character).. and then you have the programming, the lack or present of a room etc... Choice gives you more sonic abilities when rendering your music.


----------



## Andrew0568

The library sounds awesome, but the song demos by Blakus and Luke Olney are _incredible_


----------



## Sunny Schramm

Andrew0568 said:


> The library sounds awesome, but the song demos by Blakus and Luke Olney are _incredible_


yep - the second half of blakus demo gives me the last kick buying it.


----------



## OleJoergensen

I think it sounds good! Very expressive. 
I wish it was also done with bbc for the more classical sound. 
I like Paul’s walk through, so excited and exciting . Also his Twilight!


----------



## Composer 2021

I like the legato. It certainly is the best from Spitfire. And the price is very affordable, and will be an easy buy in an upcoming sale. I’m not thrilled that the demos have the very ugly center-heavy Remote Control Productions string sound. Hopefully it can sound wider with some mixing adjustments. Spitfire should listen to some Harry Potter scores to see what strings in Air Lyndhurst properly sound like.


----------



## ism

zeng said:


> Anyone have Vista in library buying also this one?


Yep!



ashX said:


> Am I the only one not amazed or 'excited' by that legato sound? I mean it is much better than previous legatos made by Spitfire but still not as good as in Vista, CSS, Soaring Strings etc.
> And also they didnt show fast runs, fast legato passages.


I'd argue that Vista and CSS and Soaring Strings are better at their style of legato, and SAS is better at it's style of legato. The former are Uber-high-romantic interpretations of legato and suture the legato inseparably to the uber-high-romantic progressive vibrato arc. The result is a kind of "basketball player" romantic subjectivity - every line is rising in intensity, inexorably pressing towards scoring the next climactic point. This is lovely, when it's what you want, but just kind of god awfully painful and exhausting when you want literally any other kind of romanticism other than basketball player romanticism.

Vista is my absolute go-to for this kind of line (and soaring strings for a super extra-aggressive variant of the Uber-high-romantic basketball player arc). And it's unbeatable for this to my ear. But for the remaining 99% of what I actually like to write, if I didn't have alternatives, having to always use Vista would make me want to slam my head in a door as much as the pre-Synchorn VSL sometime used to make me want to slam my head in a door for it's pristine lack of lyricism.



robgb said:


> I think there's quite an obsession with legato, and I'm not sure why. How often do we really need legato? How often do orchestras or scores actually use it? I honestly don't know the answer, but it seems to me that it's far less than our obsession with it would suggest.


I sort of agree with you. Legato is unquestionably fetishized. But I think the solution is that we need to obsess more over things like decrescendos to bring balance to our obsessions with legato, rather than in any way easing up on our obsession with legato.



PaxJupp said:


> Vista, CSS are still better in my books.
> 
> I feel like SA does so many things well, the evo grid was a game changer, the OA chamber waves, etc. But they just can’t seem to crack the legato code - in my opinion.


I'd argue that they've just cracked a different code that Vista and CSS.



RogiervG said:


> Appassionata strings fills that gap for the... *drumroll* soaring/passionate needs.. (it bet it works well together, heck even with SSS, as a soaring divisi line here and there)


I think "soaring" isn't quite the right nuance, at least not if this implies the same concept of "soaring" as Soaring Strings, CSS & Vista, which remain much better at doing what they do.

I think that what we hear here is a much more lyrical legato, which I suppose does involve a certain amount to soaring, but not inexorable perpetual "must-soar" single mindedness.

Conversely, this is not quite so introspective a lyricism as, say, The OT special Bows Sul tasto's much more textural lyricism. But still a very lovely, perhaps slightly more "Tintern Abbey" (so still pretty frikking introspective) colour of lyricism.


----------



## modularg2

RogiervG said:


> lol, passed all three (and four)


Guess You're not married or engaged...and wealthy too


----------



## blaggins

Composer 2021 said:


> I like the legato. It certainly is the best from Spitfire. And the price is very affordable, and will be an easy buy in an upcoming sale. I’m not thrilled that the demos have the very ugly center-heavy Remote Control Productions string sound. Hopefully it can sound wider with some mixing adjustments. Spitfire should listen to some Harry Potter scores to see what strings in Air Lyndhurst properly sound like.


Can you go into this more? This is interesting to me as I have never picked up on this nuance before, though I do love the Harry Potter scores (who doesn't?)


----------



## chapbot

Casiquire said:


> Am i crazy or are there no shorts?


You are crazy and there are no shorts 😂


----------



## Guffy

Composer 2021 said:


> I like the legato. It certainly is the best from Spitfire. And the price is very affordable, and will be an easy buy in an upcoming sale. I’m not thrilled that the demos have the very ugly center-heavy Remote Control Productions string sound. Hopefully it can sound wider with some mixing adjustments. Spitfire should listen to some Harry Potter scores to see what strings in Air Lyndhurst properly sound like.


If you listen to Luke's demo.. you're telling me it's not wide enough?


----------



## Composer 2021

tpoots said:


> Can you go into this more? This is interesting to me as I have never picked up on this nuance before, though I do love the Harry Potter scores (who doesn't?)


The way Remote Control Productions mixes strings makes them sound artificially thin. Spitfire does their strings this way a lot. Of the HP scores, Goblet of Fire is the best example of a proper recording at Air. HZ himself talked on VIC about the differences between his mixers and the mixer who did Goblet of Fire in terms of how they approached recording at Air. Obviously, I think the HZ way is dead wrong and doesn’t sound good.


----------



## Casiquire

chapbot said:


> You are crazy and there are no shorts 😂


Confirmed lol!


----------



## Composer 2021

Guffy said:


> If you listen to Luke's demo.. you're telling me it's not wide enough?


Absolutely. It sounds way too thin to me. The sound of these demos reminds me of Berlin Symphonic Strings, which is also too thin based in the demos.


----------



## Guffy

Composer 2021 said:


> Absolutely. It sounds way too thin to me. The sound of these demos reminds me of Berlin Symphonic Strings, which is also too thin based in the demos.


you're talking about width in your first post though? and it being center heavy?


----------



## toomanynotes

When will anyone ever make a decent glissando string library????


----------



## chapbot

Is there a legato offset number mentioned for playing on the grid?


----------



## Karma

chapbot said:


> Is there a legato offset number mentioned for playing on the grid?


There's a control for this. Defaults to 125ms, can be tweaked from 150-100ms


----------



## Composer 2021

Guffy said:


> you're talking about width in your first post though? and it being center heavy?


Yes


----------



## Getsumen

Composer 2021 said:


> Absolutely. It sounds way too thin to me. The sound of these demos reminds me of Berlin Symphonic Strings, which is also too thin based in the demos.


BSS being thin? Doesn't BSS have over sized ensembles as well (18 first violins). I've never really looked at it but that seems surprising


----------



## Composer 2021

Thin means the mixing, not the number of players. It means a mix that does not take advantage of the full stereo field.


----------



## Guffy

Composer 2021 said:


> Yes


I think you need to re-listen to Goblet of Fire. Even now just checking "Death of Cedric" it's way less pleasing to me... and not nearly as wide.


----------



## rottoy

Composer 2021 said:


> The way Remote Control Productions mixes strings makes them sound artificially thin. Spitfire does their strings this way a lot. Of the HP scores, Goblet of Fire is the best example of a proper recording at Air. HZ himself talked on VIC about the differences between his mixers and the mixer who did Goblet of Fire in terms of how they approached recording at Air. Obviously, I think the HZ way is dead wrong and doesn’t sound good.


Just going to quote you for bringing attention to one of my favourite scores of all time.
Goblet of Fire is a real gem, for sure. Beautifully orchestrated, performed, recorded and mixed.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

gst98 said:


> Please re-read my post as it says what you have there. 3 dynamics were recorded on the legatos, the same as SSS was. Only the sustains they're attached to are 5, as confirmed by SF in this thread. Vista is 4 + additional overlay. Not sure why you're always so combative and defensive.


I'm not defensive - just like facts.

You keep stating 3 dynamics were recorded on the legatos - but it is the *interval* (which in most libraries have a single dynamic recorded for them). Using the legato patch, you will get 5 dynamic layers to move through with modulation.



> This is pure cringe. Don't like vista? Don't buy it and move on. But for someone apparently so uninvested in them, you sure do like to spend a lot of time complaining about them. I mean, how do you get so upset about other people enjoying a different product to the one you like? And in what way are you not guilty of the same hyping of SF? Just yesterday you were trying to invalidate a composer's criticism of SF on the basis that Charlie Clouser uses it therefore it _must_ be perfect. Hope you're invoicing SF for the hard work



You seem very defensive when somebody says they don't like Vista - just as somebody will say they don't like AS or CSS or whatever. It's all subjective - why are you so invested in me not expressing my opinion the same way you are expressing yours? Vista came up in this thread (as it would be expected since it is a valid comparison). I expressed my opinion on it - just like others have. Did I say that you are not allowed to like Vista? And I didn't invalidate criticism of SF - I just pointed out the FACT that the Spitfire player had custom work under the hood that would not be possible with Kontakt. Now please go back to your Spitfire hating and Jasper Blunk fandom.


----------



## Composer 2021

rottoy said:


> Just going to quote you for bringing attention to one of my favourite scores of all time.
> Goblet of Fire is a real gem, for sure. Beautifully orchestrated, performed, recorded and mixed.


Oh yes, I absolutely love it!


----------



## RogiervG

modularg2 said:


> Guess You're not married or engaged...and wealthy too


haha.. well.... indeed not married or engaged, but she's my partner for many many many years 
As for wealthy.. depends... i just saved up quite a bit, and am spending it here and there when i see something i like enough. (ofcourse i have my limits, like everyone)


----------



## robgb

Composer 2021 said:


> Absolutely. It sounds way too thin to me.


So we're talking a matter of personal preference. Everything is subjective. An opinion said with authority is still just an opinion.


----------



## Composer 2021

Making a mix sound thin and fake is disrespectful to the musicians and immoral. That’s my “opinion”, lol.


----------



## Paul Cardon




----------



## Zanshin

I feel like Jesus has room in his heart for narrow AND wide stereo mixes.


----------



## rottoy

I'm awaiting the inevitable food and wine analogies when it comes to sound mixing practice.
A chad Châteauneuf-du-Pape Alan Meyerson mix vs. the virgin Merlot Jake Jackson mix.
For some reason things always circle back to snifters in composer circles.


----------



## Loerpert

I hope someone can make some nice comparisons to other legato strings


----------



## Raphioli

I came back to this thread, jumped to the newest page.
And I thought I opened the wrong thread for a second and had to re-check the thread title.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

does it have a rebowing feature?


----------



## Composer 2021

Zanshin said:


> I feel like Jesus has room in his heart for narrow AND wide stereo mixes.


Nah


----------



## rottoy

Zanshin said:


> I feel like Jesus has room in his heart for narrow AND wide stereo mixes.


And yet you try to narrow it down to this.


----------



## Paul Cardon

Also, worth calling out that Blakus seems to have done 2 demos? This one's only on their Soundcloud at the moment but I think it does the better job of showing off Appassionata of his two.


----------



## rottoy

Paul Cardon said:


> Also, worth calling out that Blakus seems to have done 2 demos? This one's only on their Soundcloud at the moment but I think it does the better job of showing off Appassionata of his two.



That demo should be shuffled in amongst the others on the frontpage, wow! 
Great writing, shows off the library well.


----------



## Tekkera

Composer 2021 said:


> Making a mix sound thin and fake is disrespectful to the musicians and immoral. That’s my “opinion”, lol.


I don't think you understand how things work


----------



## Lars Hogendoorn

Hi everybody,
What do you all make of that ‘noise floor’ thing. I am a relative amateur, but it struck me as a bit silly. Or is that really an option a lot of you are excited about? Would you really use it? I would think, the next librairy would incorporate the ticking of the heating system. I could provide samples for that… 😉


----------



## Casiquire

Lars Hogendoorn said:


> Hi everybody,
> What do you all make of that ‘noise floor’ thing. I am a relative amateur, but it struck me as a bit silly. Or is that really an option a lot of you are excited about? Would you really use it? I would think, the next librairy would incorporate the ticking of the heating system. I could provide samples for that… 😉


I often do add in noise. I think it's great. Digital silence is so unnatural; a noise floor helps set a baseline for what silence is, especially since there will be noise buildup from multiple samples playing at the same time, sounding pretty weird in some situations if it all fades to silence


----------



## Zanshin

Composer 2021 said:


> Nah


LOL.

I do prefer wide myself, like Synchron wide. Berlin for example is easy to match up with Synchron width by using VSL PowerPan Pro, or Ghz Panpot. I don't see why that wouldn't work here as well.


----------



## blaggins

This is getting way off topic, but is thin really the opposite of wide?


----------



## Zanshin

tpoots said:


> This is getting way off topic, but is thin really the opposite of wide?


Could be a language barrier? thin = narrow.


----------



## chapbot

What interesting times we live in! 10 years ago my string library choices could be counted on one hand with a few fingers left over. Now I have so many good ones, some purchased within the past year, that even with the cheap price I don't think I'll buy these as I feel my current libraries match the tone if not sound better. Hard drive space is even a consideration, what am I going to have to delete to make room for these!


----------



## Lars Hogendoorn

Casiquire said:


> I often do add in noise. I think it's great. Digital silence is so unnatural; a noise floor helps set a baseline for what silence is, especially since there will be noise buildup from multiple samples playing at the same time, sounding pretty weird in some situations if it all fades to silence


I guess this is the point where the Men/Women are separated from the sheep… I hope to someday reach the level of expertise on which this is something I would take notice of… I learned something today - thx!
[Continues eating grass & growing woll]


----------



## Zanshin

Casiquire said:


> I often do add in noise. I think it's great. Digital silence is so unnatural; a noise floor helps set a baseline for what silence is, especially since there will be noise buildup from multiple samples playing at the same time, sounding pretty weird in some situations if it all fades to silence


I saw this documentary on early days of Hip Hop sampling where this one artist went to all the unused channels of the desk and maxed the levels to add noise and glue it all together. It was a brilliant inspired move IMO.


----------



## Lars Hogendoorn

tpoots said:


> This is getting way off topic, but is thin really the opposite of wide?


I am really trying not to make improper jokes about this… Thus far, I succeeded… Biting my tongue off here… 😏


----------



## muziksculp

Congratulations, and a Big Thank You to Spitfire Audio on their new and wonderful sounding *Appassionata Strings* Library, specializing in producing very lyrical and emotive Legato Strings.

I would love to see VSL do a very Lyrical Legato Strings Library like this one, to complement their Synchron Strings Pro, and Elite Strings libraries. Actually, I suggested this on one of VSL threads of this forum. I hope they didn't totally dismiss it, and are seriously looking into making something like this in the future. Maybe Orchestral Tools should also think about doing this as well.


----------



## Tekkera

tpoots said:


> This is getting way off topic, but is thin really the opposite of wide?


It is neither thin (as in body of sound), nor thin (as in stereo image).
It is thin as in, ensemble size. It is a half size ensemble. Apparently people don't understand how section sizings work and the way things are performed will affect the outcome of such things.


----------



## Zanshin

muziksculp said:


> Congratulations...


About time you get here. WTF.


----------



## doctoremmet

Ever the lobbyist #howcanimakeasalespitchoutofthis #lookingforward
#butsecretlyjustworkingforthessdindustry


----------



## muziksculp

Zanshin said:


> About time you get here. WTF.


LOL.. Just came back from my Dr.'s Visit. and straight to VI-Control


----------



## Zanshin

Tekkera said:


> It is neither thin (as in body of sound), nor thin (as in stereo image).
> It is thin as in, ensemble size. It is a half size ensemble. Apparently people don't understand how section sizings work and the way things are performed will affect the outcome of such things.


@Composer 2021 did mention he thought BSS was thin too, I'm pretty sure he is talking about stereo in situ.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Casiquire said:


> I often do add in noise. I think it's great. Digital silence is so unnatural; a noise floor helps set a baseline for what silence is, especially since there will be noise buildup from multiple samples playing at the same time, sounding pretty weird in some situations if it all fades to silence


CineSamples used to have a “room tone” patch available which was the noise floor from the Sony stage. Pretty handy.


----------



## EgM

muziksculp said:


> LOL.. Just came back from my Dr.'s Visit. and straight to VI-Control


If your doctor is not talking about a recent Spitfire release, I think it's time to look for a new one 


These sound awesome though! I'm thankful for my very good G.A.S. control and the fact that I already have a million string libraries


----------



## muziksculp

ALittleNightMusic said:


> CineSamples used to have a “room tone” patch available which was the noise floor from the Sony stage. Pretty handy.


Yes, it's in CineStrings Core. Still available.


----------



## jbuhler

zeng said:


> Anyone have Vista in library buying also this one?


Yes. Besides Vista, I also have Soaring Strings. I haven't finished downloading yet, but the walkthroughs suggest Appassionata Strings does things that neither Vista nor Soaring Strings can touch.


Justin L. Franks said:


> Of course, what counts as "good" legato can vary greatly from person to person. I actually really like the legatos in SCS. Appassionata does a better job at the expressive, soaring lines, but that is its basic purpose, so of course it is. But I think SCS does quite well with fast and agile legatos. Other people strongly disagree.


I'm with you on SCS and liking the legatos of SCS.


----------



## Calagan

I'm watching the walkthrough : Am I the only one to hear this very strange (and disturbing) noise coming with some lines and suddenly disappearing as soon as Paul Thomson release the keys ?
A kind of "noise floor" noise, but sometimes completly unlinked from the levels/dynamics of the sample played. This is truly disturbing.


----------



## Casiquire

ALittleNightMusic said:


> CineSamples used to have a “room tone” patch available which was the noise floor from the Sony stage. Pretty handy.


And MIR provides it for every room which is great!


----------



## Peter Satera

jbuhler said:


> Yes. Besides Vista, I also have Soaring Strings. I haven't finished downloading yet, but the walkthroughs suggest Appassionata Strings does things that neither Vista nor Soaring Strings can touch.


I agree, I have Soaring Strings and CSS. The hairpin articulations look very beneficial to have. I love CSS and Soaring, and I don't have a studio sized string lib from Spitfire, im quite interested in seeing how this pairs with HZ strings, as those are massive, and this is quite tight.

At £129 for me, definitely worth the price compared to other comparable legato-only string libs. Downloading now.


----------



## Evans

I will say this is kind of BS because I'm still waiting on a shouty choir from Spitfire Audio at AIR with plenty of syllables.


----------



## Kent

This thread is cracking me up. Thank you all for your service


----------



## filipjonathan

I'm surprised no one has done a live stream noodling with it yet


----------



## Trash Panda

Evans said:


> I will say this is kind of BS because I'm still waiting on a shouty choir from Spitfire Audio at AIR with plenty of syllables.


Spitfire doesn't exceed dynamics of mf outside of Abbey Road, and even then, only in the shorts. 

I fear you'll be waiting a very long time. :(


----------



## madfloyd

filipjonathan said:


> I'm surprised no one has done a live stream noodling with it yet


Still downloading?


----------



## Mithnaur

For my part, I have never been tempted so quickly. The hardest part is waiting for the end of the download 
I knew right away that this library was going to fill the hole I had been trying to fill for a few months in my template.
For once I'm as excited as Paul and I can't wait to get started.
I was hesitating to buy Soaring Strings instead of SCS, finally it will be Appassionata 
And I'd be curious to try them in layer with my VSL App Strings and Dim Strings.
And the introductory price quickly convinced me!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Of the various Spitfire libraries I have, I've never bought a single one on launch day - until now. Great walkthrough and demos made for an easy sell.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> LOL.. Just came back from my Dr.'s Visit. and straight to VI-Control


Oh no, now you'll need your enema!


----------



## borisb2

filipjonathan said:


> I'm surprised no one has done a live stream noodling with it yet


download done .. did some private noodeling:

compared violins1 to BS, BSS, SCS and CSS .. honestly I'm blown away .. for less than $200.- this library blows every other legato patch out of the water .. at least in my template. It's so defined, agile, balanced and convincing - awesome! ... Imagine a beautiful tone like BS and BSS but more defined (not blurry) with playability and convincing legato like CSS but more subtle vibrato


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

borisb2 said:


> download done .. did some private noodeling:
> 
> compared violins1 to BS, BSS, SCS and CSS .. honestly I'm blown away .. for less than $200.- this library blows every other legato patch out of the water .. at least in my template. It's so defined, agile, balanced and convincing - awesome! ... Imagine a beautiful tone like BS and BSS but more defined with playability and convincing legato like CSS but more subtle vibrato


Oh come on, post some MP3s dude!🙂😎


----------



## Loerpert

borisb2 said:


> download done .. did some private noodeling:
> 
> compared violins1 to BS, BSS, SCS and CSS .. honestly I'm blown away .. for less than $200.- this library blows every other legato patch out of the water .. at least in my template. It's so defined, agile, balanced and convincing - awesome! ... Imagine a beautiful tone like BS and BSS but more defined with playability and convincing legato like CSS but more subtle vibrato


Okay that kinda may have sold me. Been looking for a CSS / Vista quality legato with more tamed down vibrato


----------



## Lars Hogendoorn

borisb2 said:


> download done .. did some private noodeling:
> 
> compared violins1 to BS, BSS, SCS and CSS .. honestly I'm blown away .. for less than $200.- this library blows every other legato patch out of the water .. at least in my template. It's so defined, agile, balanced and convincing - awesome! ... Imagine a beautiful tone like BS and BSS but more defined with playability and convincing legato like CSS but more subtle vibrato


Is it suitable for a bit faster passages as well? Or just the longer, lyrical stuff? If you could let us hear a small taster of what you are hearing... That would be swell!


----------



## Lars Hogendoorn

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Oh come on, post some MP3s dude!🙂😎


Pleaaaaase...?


----------



## RMH

Justin L. Franks said:


> waiting a year for when it is eligible for 40% off.


40% of individual products were sold at discount events, right?


----------



## filipjonathan

borisb2 said:


> download done .. did some private noodeling:
> 
> compared violins1 to BS, BSS, SCS and CSS .. honestly I'm blown away .. for less than $200.- this library blows every other legato patch out of the water .. at least in my template. It's so defined, agile, balanced and convincing - awesome! ... Imagine a beautiful tone like BS and BSS but more defined with playability and convincing legato like CSS but more subtle vibrato


Maybe post a short demo? A faster one


----------



## Francisco Lamolda

From the manual: "with repetition based alt-attacks"

What does this mean? A legato for repeated notes similar to the legato of CSS?


----------



## Sunny Schramm

is it possible to get the bow change patch synced to the daw-tempo? otherwise it fits only one tempo or did I get something wrong?


----------



## molemac

borisb2 said:


> download done .. did some private noodeling:
> 
> compared violins1 to BS, BSS, SCS and CSS .. honestly I'm blown away .. for less than $200.- this library blows every other legato patch out of the water .. at least in my template. It's so defined, agile, balanced and convincing - awesome! ... Imagine a beautiful tone like BS and BSS but more defined with playability and convincing legato like CSS but more subtle vibrato


That’s what you said after buying scs , are you sure you’re not sufffering from immediate Ive bought it so it must be great ? Actually from what I have heard, it does sound lovely especially at lower dynamics , very warm sounding . Nottotally convinced by the high soaring lines which still sound a bit samply compared to a real section playing a specific melody together but its getting close.


----------



## borisb2

Lars Hogendoorn said:


> Pleaaaaase...?





filipjonathan said:


> Maybe post a short demo? A faster one



View attachment ASV1.mp3


this is some live noodling .. no tweaks (!) .. tried to play some faster notes at the end - big failure (in my playing




)
- Slurred Legato articulation, Tree Mic + a bit of Close Mic, 1.12 GB, no extra reverb


----------



## muziksculp

Quote from Spitfire's Appassionata Strings Webpage. 

"Spitfire Appassionata Strings has been recorded using our new "Impulse Legato" technique – the culmination of years of intensive research and development at Spitfire Audio HQ. Delivering flowing and emotive lines, these new legatos offer perfectly balanced vibrato, enabling composers to intuitively write in a beautiful, soaring melodic style in stunning detail."

Any guesses what this new Impulse Legato technique is all about ?


----------



## Loerpert

borisb2 said:


> View attachment 68841
> 
> 
> this is some live noodeling .. no tweaks .. tried to play some faster notes at the end - big failure (in my playing )


Thanks! Your playing is fine . I'm not entirely sure if I like the samples though, will listen again tomorrow with better headphones.


----------



## PaulieDC

I must be living under a rock, I had no idea this existed until I got the email today, lol. I think that's a first with Spitfire for me. Then again, I didn't even know the time changed this past Fall until the day after. Oh boy... getting old is speeding up!

So I almost hit BUY NOW before even listening to the walkthrough... are we conditioned or what? I'll hit buy now AFTER I watch the walkthrough...


----------



## ism

muziksculp said:


> Any guesses what this new Impulse Legato technique is all about ?


Maybe it just refers to the fact that make a good enough legato and people will trip over themselves to buy it?

Curious myself, but not much idea what "impulse legato" might actually mean.


----------



## borisb2

Loerpert said:


> Thanks! Your playing is fine . I'm not entirely sure if I like the samples though, will listen again tomorrow with better headphones.


I'm sure by that time people will have posted better demos


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I doubt Spitfire will divulge too much on their technical approach here - trade secrets and all that. I do wonder how scalable it is, in a cost-effective manner. Clearly this library has a lot of material recorded and scripted - seems hard to include that in a full fledged library where you also need to record and script the other articulations (not to mention the editing time and costs to do everything). Will be interesting to see what they do in AR1 and if they utilize the same technical approach there.


----------



## muziksculp

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Will be interesting to see what they do in AR1 and if they utilize the same technical approach there.


Yes ! That would be awesome, and I don't see why they won't do it for AR-1 Modular Orch.


----------



## Lars Hogendoorn

ism said:


> Maybe it just refers to the fact that make a good enough legato and people will trip over themselves to buy it?
> 
> Curious myself, but not much idea what "impulse legato" might actually mean.


The full name is “People-buying-it-in-an-impulse-“ legato, I think


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

muziksculp said:


> Yes ! That would be awesome, and I don't see why they won't do it for AR-1 Modular Orch.


And whether they will include it in the standard library of the modular orchestra - and if so, the cost. I imagine things are going to be pretty pricey going forward given the amount of recording and editing time needed for these types of patches.


----------



## ism

Lars Hogendoorn said:


> The full name is “People-buying-it-in-an-impulse-“ legato, I think


Well, whatever it's doing, it's clearly working.


----------



## josephwmorgan

I'd buy this library just from listening to Blake's demo(s) alone. Once again showing what proper orchestration/arrangement can do to bring VI's to life @Blakus - mind blowing as always.

That said, this does also legitimately feel like a big step forward for VI development today. Not since the first Tina Guo CS library have I felt like a sample lib properly (and easily) captures portamento the way this library seems to. Great price + great sound = instant buy for me

-Matt/JWM


----------



## Martin S

borisb2 said:


> View attachment ASV1.mp3
> 
> 
> this is some live noodeling .. no tweaks (!) .. tried to play some faster notes at the end - big failure (in my playing
> 
> 
> 
> )


Sounds very nice!

I haven’t seen this information posted yet, but what is the RAM footprint per instrument?


----------



## borisb2

Martin S said:


> Sounds very nice!
> 
> I haven’t seen this information posted yet, but what is the RAM footprint per instrument?


I have 1.12 GB for V1 using Tree + close mic .. so a lot less than BS, BSS, CSS etc. (using more than 1 mic)


----------



## Architekton

No shorts or…? :/


----------



## ed buller

It's bootiful. Celli and Viola's panned right,,,,might need to fiddle. Sound is sublime and the legato is very good. no blurring

e


----------



## mixedmoods

muziksculp said:


> Yes ! That would be awesome, and I don't see why they won't do it for AR-1 Modular Orch.


Yeah, I thought the same – maybe thats one of the reasons why they havent released any proper string legato for AR-1 yet.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Can anyone confirm if this has repeated note rebowing?


----------



## Tekkera

Trash Panda said:


> Spitfire doesn't exceed dynamics of mf outside of Abbey Road, and even then, only in the shorts.
> 
> I fear you'll be waiting a very long time. :(


That's untrue


----------



## ism

Tekkera said:


> That's untrue


I think he means a "Daniel James mf". Which is like an ff for anyone else. 

So just a confusion of terminology, really.


----------



## josephwmorgan

Also- the graphics/UI for this are absolutely GORGEOUS. Spitfire better not let go of whoever their designer is!


----------



## Tekkera

ism said:


> I think he means a "Daniel James mf". Which is like an ff for anyone else.
> 
> So just a confusion of terminology, really.


LMFAO


----------



## CT

Offset at minimum makes it plenty agile, just map it to a knob or fader and adjust based on context. Works quite nicely!


----------



## molemac

borisb2 said:


> View attachment ASV1.mp3
> 
> 
> this is some live noodeling .. no tweaks (!) .. tried to play some faster notes at the end - big failure (in my playing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> - Slurred Legato articulation, Tree Mic + a bit of Close Mic, 1.12 GB, no extra reverb


Dont do yourself down , sounded great. Any chance of a quick version blending with scs to see if there is more realism to be had From the samples. I should imagine they work well together same studio etc. and Appasionata would smooth out scs.


----------



## borisb2

molemac said:


> Dont do yourself down , sounded great. Any chance of a quick version blending with scs to see if there is more realism to be had From the samples. I should imagine they work well together same studio etc. and Appasionata would smooth out scs.


I'm sure they will blend well together .. can do tomorrow


----------



## angeruroth

Just one simple question: can the note velovity be used to control the dynamics? Like, I want to ignore the faders and wheels and just focus on playing the keyboard, harder and softer... Could that work?


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> Quote from Spitfire's Appassionata Strings Webpage.
> 
> "Spitfire Appassionata Strings has been recorded using our new "Impulse Legato" technique – the culmination of years of intensive research and development at Spitfire Audio HQ. Delivering flowing and emotive lines, these new legatos offer perfectly balanced vibrato, enabling composers to intuitively write in a beautiful, soaring melodic style in stunning detail."
> 
> Any guesses what this new Impulse Legato technique is all about ?


My speculation is just something similar to performance sampling playing actual musical material


----------



## Lars Hogendoorn

borisb2 said:


> View attachment ASV1.mp3
> 
> 
> this is some live noodeling .. no tweaks (!) .. tried to play some faster notes at the end - big failure (in my playing
> 
> 
> 
> )
> - Slurred Legato articulation, Tree Mic + a bit of Close Mic, 1.12 GB, no extra reverb


Sounds lovely to me! Thx!


----------



## dzilizzi

borisb2 said:


> View attachment ASV1.mp3
> 
> 
> this is some live noodeling .. no tweaks (!) .. tried to play some faster notes at the end - big failure (in my playing
> 
> 
> 
> )
> - Slurred Legato articulation, Tree Mic + a bit of Close Mic, 1.12 GB, no extra reverb


No synthy buzz. That little run near the end. Yes. This sounds really good for $162. I just need to check if I can get it this week or if I have to wait until next week.


----------



## Tekkera

angeruroth said:


> Just one simple question: can the note velovity be used to control the dynamics? Like, I want to ignore the faders and wheels and just focus on playing the keyboard, harder and softer... Could that work?


I don't think so. Also, that doesn't work with any sort of sustained articulation, especially this library. You can't change the dynamics mid note with velocity so that just can't really fly


----------



## Casiquire

Lars Hogendoorn said:


> I guess this is the point where the Men/Women are separated from the sheep… I hope to someday reach the level of expertise on which this is something I would take notice of… I learned something today - thx!
> [Continues eating grass & growing woll]


Oh I'm pretty firmly still in the Sheep camp, but it's a learning process. You don't become really good overnight, you learn one thing at a time, and that just happens to be one thing I've learned.


----------



## Jackdnp121

borisb2 said:


> View attachment ASV1.mp3
> 
> 
> this is some live noodeling .. no tweaks (!) .. tried to play some faster notes at the end - big failure (in my playing
> 
> 
> 
> )
> - Slurred Legato articulation, Tree Mic + a bit of Close Mic, 1.12 GB, no extra reverb


that actually sounded pretty good .. thanks for your demo mate


----------



## filipjonathan

borisb2 said:


> View attachment ASV1.mp3
> 
> 
> this is some live noodeling .. no tweaks (!) .. tried to play some faster notes at the end - big failure (in my playing
> 
> 
> 
> )
> - Slurred Legato articulation, Tree Mic + a bit of Close Mic, 1.12 GB, no extra reverb


This actually sounds good! Thanks!


----------



## SomeGuy

Anyone running spitfires player on an M1 Mac? How well does it run?


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

mussnig said:


> Since when can you edit the legatos in Spitfire’s Kontakt patches. Usually they are locked ...


well, was a bit of a general comment about in-house players. But locked patches can also be opened - just with the legal version of Kontakt.
Kinda funny when pirate stuff is more useful than the legit version.

Although in some cases Spitfire prevents even that by making those versions crash, no idea how but it looks like that's where they spend their time rather than getting it right themselves.
Not like other developers are better, but at least one can still edit the patches somehow. I think in Spitfires case they only impliment that crash thing when there is that performance legato technique involved. Regular legato like in Albion5 can be opened.


----------



## Camus

@Spitfire:
Seems like there´s a bug in the microphone consistancy: when turning off the Mix-Sets and using the tree, Amb, Mics: then KSW from any Art to F-2 KSW, the sound is very dry. I huess the release samples aren´t involved properly.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

RMH said:


> 40% of individual products were sold at discount events, right?


Correct, like the spring and winter sales. Libraries less than a year old go back to the intro pricing (typically 20-25% off), and only qualify for the full 40% off discount after being out for at least one year.

With the loyalty discount, Appassionata is 35% off right now, so you can get almost the same deal without having to wait.


----------



## Karma

Here's a Shawshank mockup I did during the development stage for this one. Modwheel doesn't even hit higher than mf in this example too. Really shows off the beautiful soft side I feel!


----------



## Jackdnp121

Karma said:


> Here's a Shawshank mockup I did during the development stage for this one. Modwheel doesn't even hit higher than mf in this example too. Really shows off the beautiful soft side I feel!


Thanks for you all's demo ... just brought it :D


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Karma said:


> In this case I'd be very surprised if you needed to


I can imagine. That doesn't mean I don't need to. I think there is a lot to be improved here.
There is no perfect legato scripting, even if it's great there can still be a bit here and there to be tweaked. Especially since legato reacts very differently depending on what you play/program. A legato can sound perfect for a slow passage and horrific for anything faster. That can be altered by changing the sample start of the transitions for instance. More offset/delay for slow passages, less offset/delay for fast passages for instance. Spitfire had that control on a lot of Kontakt libraries and it's great, at least in the case of their Chamber Strings which is one of the few I have.
In the case of the new player there is next to no control unfortunately, which makes it about 50-80% less likely for me to buy a library.
In some cases the legato might be great, except on a few notes and in some dynamic ranges, which can be hard to hear in demos and walkthroughs since they of course don't show every transition at every dynamic and pitch. Since there seem to be 5 dynamics in this case a lot can go wrong.
Given the horrific/broken legato on the initial HZ Strings release you never know!

EDIT: In this case and perhaps other cases there is a legato offset, in generalized because HZ Strings doesn't have that control.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Karma said:


> Here's a Shawshank mockup I did during the development stage for this one. Modwheel doesn't even hit higher than mf in this example too. Really shows off the beautiful soft side I feel!


Sounds lovely!


----------



## PaulieDC

The demos of Blakus and Luke Olney sold me. That's a sound I've been wanting in addition to all the "realistic" libraries I own. And for that price, NO brainer. In fact, someone very kindly gave me an SA gift card for helping them so out the door it's 111 bucks... I spent more than that on mogami cables. 

Zipping up my sheep costume and logging into PayPal. Ba ha haaa haa ha.


----------



## Go To 11

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Can anyone confirm if this has repeated note rebowing?


I asked in the chat but the person didn't know what that was, so has escalated the question to support, and will get back to me. I'll paste the reply when I get it.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

Karma said:


> Here's a Shawshank mockup I did during the development stage for this one. Modwheel doesn't even hit higher than mf in this example too. Really shows off the beautiful soft side I feel!


Whoa. Not quite the same style as the original, but stunning in its own way.


----------



## Go To 11

Karma said:


> Here's a Shawshank mockup I did during the development stage for this one. Modwheel doesn't even hit higher than mf in this example too. Really shows off the beautiful soft side I feel!


Stunning!


----------



## Justin L. Franks

Go To 11 said:


> I asked in the chat but the person didn't know what that was, so has escalated the question to support, and will get back to me. I'll paste the reply when I get it.


There is the hairpin articulation with a rebow.


----------



## cedricm

muziksculp said:


> Any guesses what this new Impulse Legato technique is all about ?


Page 32 of the User Manual:
*Impulse Legato(*)* = SQRT( GAS^2 + FOMO^3 + COUNTOF(VICPOSTS)^4 )
- SUM(PURCHASES(2021))/1000

(*) Patent pending.


----------



## Go To 11

Justin L. Franks said:


> There is the hairpin articulation with a rebow.


That's not the same as bow change legato. That usually involves being able to hold down the sustain pedal and hit the same note over and over again, and each time hear a bow change connected note, rather than a new start note, or overlapping notes. Cinematic Studio Strings does this perfectly.


----------



## Karma

DarkestShadow said:


> I can imagine. That doesn't mean I don't need to. I think there is a lot to be improved here.
> There is no perfect legato scripting, even if it's great there can still be a bit here and there to be tweaked. Especially since legato reacts very differently depending on what you play. A legato can sound perfect for a slow passage and horrific for anything faster. That can be altered by changing the sample start of the transitions for instance. More offset/delay for slow passages, less offset/delay for fast passages for instance. Spitfire had that control on a lot of Kontakt libraries and it's great, at least in the case of their Chamber Strings which is one of the few I have.
> In the case of the new player there is next to no control unfortunately, which makes it about 50-80% less likely for me to buy a library.


I mean you're talking to a guy that programmed it so... I'm not going to quite agree! I feel like you're generalizing based on other content/legatos you've heard, though I can assure you any decisions to make this as good as possible were made. There is a legato offset control given to the user for that very thing.


----------



## Elfen

Glad to see Spitfire having a new legato library. This one was an instant buy. 
Here's a quick demo to test its agility, all played live no edit. Violins 1, Mics on Mix 2.


----------



## filipjonathan

Elfen said:


> Glad to see Spitfire having a new legato library. This one was an instant buy.
> Here's a quick demo to test its agility, all played live no edit. Violins 1, Mics on Mix 2.


Damn it, it's so good. I have to resist even harder now


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Karma said:


> I mean you're talking to a guy that programmed it so... I'm not going to quite agree! I feel like you're generalizing based on other content/legatos you've heard, but I can assure you any decisions to make this as good as possible were made. There is literally a legato offset control given to the user for that very thing.


oh, if there is a legato offset in this library it's great of course! Shall edit the post  That's of course a bit of a problem if the Spitfire's players features vary so much depending on the library. At least there is none on the HZ Strings legato and a general scarcity of controls, like a basic ADSR.
But of course legato offset is only one thing, in Kontakt it can be entirely revamped, including moving the offset further back than possible on the interface even if there is such a control (of course if the audio samples allow to get back further). And of course changing the ADSR of the different assets of the legato. The cellos really make me want to play around with the ADSR on the assets :D But of course it's hard to tell without trying. Maybe the settings indeed can't be improved. Just can't tell if it's locked away hehe. It's a matter of taste too so definitions of "best" will vary.


----------



## Karma

DarkestShadow said:


> oh, if there is a legato offset in this library it's great of course! Shall edit the post  That's of course a bit of a problem if the Spitfire's players features vary so much depending on the library. At least there is none on the HZ Strings legato and a general scarcity of controls, like a basic ADSR.
> But of course legato offset is only one thing, in Kontakt it can be entirely revamped, including moving the offset further back than possible on the interface even if there is such a control (of course if the audio samples allow to get back further). And of course changing the ADSR of the different assets of the legato. The cellos really make me want to play around with the ADSR on the assets :D


More control is always something that I agree with too, and as time goes on we'll keep adding it where we can


----------



## tcb

86664
frozen strings was 22022
I realized where the violas players went!


----------



## from_theashes

So it’s legato only (and some Hairpin)… nothing that SCS doesn’t cover. So why bother? I don’t get it tbh^^


----------



## Cdnalsi

SomeGuy said:


> Anyone running spitfires player on an M1 Mac? How well does it run?


Between Opus, Kontakt, and sforzando, the Spitfire player runs the smoothest on my M1 Pro 16" (10CPU/16GPU, 16GB RAM) MBP. Running BBCSO Core on it flawlessly with the whole orchestra loaded on ~45% RAM pressure and CPU meters at about 15-20% when playing in Logic Pro. It's silky smooth.


----------



## Daniel James

Putting aside this being like the 31st string library from Spitfire, this one sounds _really_ really nice! Hopefully a reflection of a more modern and quality-focused approach, instead of just wacking brand names on phoned in packages!

Keep this momentum up!

-DJ


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

from_theashes said:


> So it’s legato only (and some Hairpin)… nothing that SCS doesn’t cover. So why bother? I don’t get it tbh^^


This one has a warmer, more romantic sound


----------



## colony nofi

from_theashes said:


> So it’s legato only (and some Hairpin)… nothing that SCS doesn’t cover. So why bother? I don’t get it tbh^^


Have you taken a listen to the walkthrough video yet?
It makes life SO much easier to write legato type lines that are far more believable. So much more emotion. I really don't like gushing, but the sound of the legato seems so much more believable than anything else in my colleciton - spitfire OR other companies. 
I'm not one to use much legato at all for mockups - if I was doing a series where there was no time to record, it would be a gift from heaven.

Edit : Put my money where my mouth is - its downloading!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Daniel James said:


> Putting aside this being like the 31st string library from Spitfire, this one sounds _really_ really nice! Hopefully a reflection of a more modern and quality-focused approach, instead of just wacking brand names on phoned in packages!
> 
> Keep this momentum up!
> 
> -DJ


This must be the closest we’ll ever get to seeing a Spitfire compliment from this gentleman! 🙂


----------



## Tekkera

from_theashes said:


> So it’s legato only (and some Hairpin)… nothing that SCS doesn’t cover. So why bother? I don’t get it tbh^^


It is programmed way, way, way better. Very consistent, and it has more dynamics. Articulations and dynamics are also consistent across each section. Also, it doesn't even sound the same... SCS is very dodgy


----------



## Daniel James

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> This must be the closest we’ll ever get to seeing a Spitfire compliment from this gentleman! 🙂


I'll compliment them when they nail it, I'll give them shit when they are not. The way it should be. 😂


----------



## RMH

Karma said:


> Here's a Shawshank mockup I did during the development stage for this one. Modwheel doesn't even hit higher than mf in this example too. Really shows off the beautiful soft side I feel!


Really nice!


----------



## Robert_G

Karma said:


> ......


So the burning question: Is Appassionata going to be a series of orchestral libraries including Brass and Woodwinds, or is this just a random library up for sale.


----------



## Daniel James

ism said:


> I think he means a "Daniel James mf". Which is like an ff for anyone else.
> 
> So just a confusion of terminology, really.


If one can go much louder (as proved by competing libraries), how can you say an mf is an ff though?.... by definition if other stuff goes bigger you cant call it ff. That's why I say most Spitfire stuff tops out at mf generally...because there are numerous examples of competing libraries taking to an actual ff. So is it actually just me saying that or could it be that you are fooling yourself into thinking that because spitfire called it ff...when in actual fact and in* practical* usage it is an mf when compared to various other libraries?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Great job programming this one @Karma - I’m sure it took a lot of effort and was no easy task!


----------



## Scalms

Robert_G said:


> So the burning question: Is Appassionata going to be a series of orchestral libraries including Brass and Woodwinds, or is this just a random library up for sale.


don't forget Appassionata Percussion!  taikos, snares, cowbells, triangles, etc with extra passion!


----------



## Baronvonheadless

View attachment AS test .mp3

First test with it ^^ pretty much loudest dynamic layer across the board


View attachment AS test 2.mp3


^^ This version softer to medium across the board

Thoughts?

I love it, although I feel like the portamento and dynamic touch is not as intense as what I remember from the walkthrough. Feels kind of samey across the board in ways...


----------



## Jdiggity1

Well, here's my "test run" with it. Tried to incorporate everything it offers.

View attachment Jaypassionata.mp3


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

The tone of this library is so emotional. I played one note and started crying.


----------



## Karma

Jdiggity1 said:


> Well, here's my "test run" with it. Tried to incorporate everything it offers.
> 
> View attachment Jaypassionata.mp3


----------



## Joël Dollié

Jdiggity1 said:


> Well, here's my "test run" with it. Tried to incorporate everything it offers.
> 
> View attachment Jaypassionata.mp3


Superb!


----------



## meradium

Jdiggity1 said:


> Well, here's my "test run" with it. Tried to incorporate everything it offers.
> 
> View attachment Jaypassionata.mp3


Really nice! Great work!


----------



## FireGS

Anyone else notice a super resonant fundamental B4/C4 on Violins 1/2?


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic

Mmm I'd like some strawberries with that cream please...


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Jdiggity1 said:


> Well, here's my "test run" with it. Tried to incorporate everything it offers.
> 
> View attachment Jaypassionata.mp3


Great work! Which mics did you use? or are vibing with the most here?


----------



## MDP

Jdiggity1 said:


> Well, here's my "test run" with it. Tried to incorporate everything it offers.
> 
> View attachment Jaypassionata.mp3


wasn't too sure about it before but after hearing this i have to say it sounds great


----------



## Dr.Quest

Jdiggity1 said:


> Well, here's my "test run" with it. Tried to incorporate everything it offers.
> 
> View attachment Jaypassionata.mp3


Finally someone bought a new library and actually used it! And used it well. Beautiful and nicely done!


----------



## liquidlino

Baronvonheadless said:


> View attachment AS test .mp3
> 
> First test with it ^^ pretty much loudest dynamic layer across the board
> 
> 
> View attachment AS test 2.mp3
> 
> 
> ^^ This version softer to medium across the board
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> I love it, although I feel like the portamento and dynamic touch is not as intense as what I remember from the walkthrough. Feels kind of samey across the board in ways...


Not trying to be negative here, it does sound great in those examples, really lovely. But... in the mix like that, SAS (Spitfire Appassionata Strings) doesn't sound very different to, say, CSS. If I already own CSS, I'm not hearing much reason to get SAS? Or are you seeing a lot of benefit?


----------



## ChickenAndARoll

liquidlino said:


> Not trying to be negative here, it does sound great in those examples, really lovely. But... in the mix like that, SAS (Spitfire Appassionata Strings) doesn't sound very different to, say, CSS. If I already own CSS, I'm not hearing much reason to get SAS? Or are you seeing a lot of benefit?


I'm having the same dilemma right now, this library sounds fantastic but I'm worried that it might be redundant since I already have CSS


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

liquidlino said:


> Not trying to be negative here, it does sound great in those examples, really lovely. But... in the mix like that, SAS (Spitfire Appassionata Strings) doesn't sound very different to, say, CSS. If I already own CSS, I'm not hearing much reason to get SAS? Or are you seeing a lot of benefit?



I think you'll find that from a lot of string libraries honestly - in a dense mix, hard to tell them apart. But I think the benefit lies in 1) ease of use and programming (no messing with variable delays here for example) and 2) does the sound inspire you _while_ writing?

Also, it's nice AS includes some unique articulations you don't find in many other places like the hairpin short / med / long and the glancing attack. You could simulate that with CSS for example, but nice to have it recorded.


----------



## studioj

Baronvonheadless said:


> View attachment AS test .mp3
> 
> First test with it ^^ pretty much loudest dynamic layer across the board
> 
> 
> View attachment AS test 2.mp3
> 
> 
> ^^ This version softer to medium across the board
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> I love it, although I feel like the portamento and dynamic touch is not as intense as what I remember from the walkthrough. Feels kind of samey across the board in ways...


I'm having the same reaction to the portamento... its a lovely warm beautiful spitfire sound, but I'm remembering the ability to do more exaggerated portamento from the videos / Paul's example than what is possible with the library as downloaded. but tbh it doesn't matter much. after some quick comparison, I think CSS still has a more realistic legato but also is a little harder to work with because of the extensive and varied delays. but I generally prefer the spitfire string and room sound. which in reality is more critical over all in a production to me. The legatos are def an improvement over SSS and SCS and I look forward to some combo work.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

liquidlino said:


> Not trying to be negative here, it does sound great in those examples, really lovely. But... in the mix like that, SAS (Spitfire Appassionata Strings) doesn't sound very different to, say, CSS. If I already own CSS, I'm not hearing much reason to get SAS? Or are you seeing a lot of benefit?


Yeah not sure, don't have css but have vista and at the moment I'm having a hard time getting it to sound as good as everyone else it feels like.


----------



## Noeticus

Jdiggity1 said:


> Well, here's my "test run" with it. Tried to incorporate everything it offers.
> 
> View attachment Jaypassionata.mp3


This is truly IMPRESSIVE!

Wow!!!

🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷


----------



## Noeticus

Dear @Jdiggity1 ,

Spitfire should hire you and have this wonderful piece of music on their site, as it is the BEST demo I have heard so far.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

PaulieDC said:


> I must be living under a rock, I had no idea this existed until I got the email today, lol. I think that's a first with Spitfire for me. Then again, I didn't even know the time changed this past Fall until the day after. Oh boy... getting old is speeding up!
> 
> So I almost hit BUY NOW before even listening to the walkthrough... are we conditioned or what? I'll hit buy now AFTER I watch the walkthrough...


you must have a life! not coming here and speculating with us for days!


----------



## alcorey

Noeticus said:


> This is truly IMPRESSIVE!
> 
> Wow!!!
> 
> 🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷


Absolutely!  ( On a side note - Noeticus, you had 5 full wine glasses back in Post #491, so from what I can tell, you're not drinking fast enough....... or these have been refilled


----------



## Noeticus

alcorey said:


> Absolutely!  ( On a side note - Noeticus, you had 5 full wine glasses back in Post #491, so from what I can tell, you're not drinking fast enough....... or these have been refilled


Ever since I discovered the wine glass icon here on VI-Control, I have been out of control with the virtual drinkin'.

🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷


----------



## Joël Dollié

liquidlino said:


> Not trying to be negative here, it does sound great in those examples, really lovely. But... in the mix like that, SAS (Spitfire Appassionata Strings) doesn't sound very different to, say, CSS. If I already own CSS, I'm not hearing much reason to get SAS? Or are you seeing a lot of benefit?


The room, and especially the highs aren't even comparable to CSS imo. CSS is noise in the highs especially on lower dyns wheras this has great higher air harmonics that extend. Tip for AS, don't use close mics unless you're going for something specific, and create your mic mix around the outrigs


----------



## MaxOctane

Daniel James said:


> Putting aside this being like the 31st string library from Spitfire, this one sounds _really_ really nice! Hopefully a reflection of a more modern and quality-focused approach, instead of just wacking brand names on phoned in packages!
> 
> Keep this momentum up!
> 
> -DJ









(_70s kids get it_)


----------



## Fever Phoenix

Jdiggity1 said:


> Well, here's my "test run" with it. Tried to incorporate everything it offers.
> 
> View attachment Jaypassionata.mp3


my man.. 


...very beautiful


but that is you


not the library


(it probably helps though)


----------



## prodigalson

Compared a quick improvised line to Vista and CSS trying to go through the dynamic layers. see what you think for yourself? 

To me they're all pretty good. CSS may seem smoother overall but is definitely "behind" expressively even when on the grid and correct offsets are applied. It also doesn't have the detail or tone of SFAS. It also has that strong vibrato that people may or may not be into. Vista also has that vibrato and sounds good but, to me, I've always chafed at the way Vista has so much vibrato and intensity right on the transitions. There's no room for the notes to breathe even on the lowest dynamics as you get the impression they're just sawing away no matter the dynamic. 

SFAS has more dynamic range to me. the pp sounds more pp and the f sounds more f. There's also user controllable slurred vs. bowed transitions that I used to effect here. Bowing when appropriate and slurring when appropriate. Neither Vista nor CSS have this. 

YMMV. Horses for courses and all that.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

Noeticus said:


> Ever since I discovered the wine glass icon here on VI-Control, I have been out of control with the virtual drinkin'.
> 
> 🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷



me and my gin tonic are approving this message


----------



## jbuhler

MaxOctane said:


> (_70s kids get it_)


Mikey!


----------



## MaxOctane

Purchased and downloading!

Now, @Karma, since we're all in a good mood today, let me propose something. We all know Paul and Christian won't let you shrink the big knob and sliders. I get it, it's how it was designed, a lot of thought went into it, a lot of people like it -- I get it.

But... what if you make the knob and the sliders just_ 3 pixels smaller with every Spitfire Player update_? What's the harm? Paul and Christian won't even notice. No one has to know.

_Think about it._


----------



## MA-Simon

It does sound very nice. Love the vibrato style and sound of this library!

I Played arround with it a bit. Have to admit that I am a bit dissapointed that there is no sampled samenote rebows (I could find), which is weird for a dedicated legato library. Or again no release length controls. Makes it very hard to play stuff in live.


----------



## muziksculp

Jdiggity1 said:


> Well, here's my "test run" with it. Tried to incorporate everything it offers.
> 
> View attachment Jaypassionata.mp3


This Sounds Wonderful 😎👍🧡 imho. Much richer timbre, and has more presence than CSS. and no need for fiddling with the multiple legato delays. I Love the mids and highs, very nice definition and very rich, and lyrical sounding. 

We have a Legato winner !


----------



## Baronvonheadless

My second test with it. How's this?

I think I need to write better string lines with more space honestly to get the most out of this library. But this is always my favorite piece to test with!


View attachment AS LP test .mp3


----------



## prodigalson

MA-Simon said:


> It does sound very nice. Love the vibrato style and sound of this library!
> 
> I Played arround with it a bit. Have to admit that I am a bit dissapointed that there is no sampled samenote rebows (I could find), which is weird for a dedicated legato library. Or again no release length controls. Makes it very hard to play stuff in live.


Agreed it would be nice to have same note legato. There is a control for release length though


----------



## MA-Simon

prodigalson said:


> There is a control for release length though


Nope, just loudness, but it does not have the desired effekt of making the release longer to blend into the next sample.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

prodigalson said:


> Compared a quick improvised line to Vista and CSS trying to go through the dynamic layers. see what you think for yourself?
> 
> To me they're all pretty good. CSS may seem smoother overall but is definitely "behind" expressively even when on the grid and correct offsets are applied. It also doesn't have the detail or tone of SFAS. It also has that strong vibrato that people may or may not be into. Vista also has that vibrato and sounds good but, to me, I've always chafed at the way Vista has so much vibrato and intensity right on the transitions. There's no room for the notes to breathe even on the lowest dynamics as you get the impression they're just sawing away no matter the dynamic.
> 
> SFAS has more dynamic range to me. the pp sounds more pp and the f sounds more f. There's also user controllable slurred vs. bowed transitions that I used to effect here. Bowing when appropriate and slurring when appropriate. Neither Vista nor CSS have this.
> 
> YMMV. Horses for courses and all that.


Really like SFAS (is that the official acronym now? AS? SAPPY?) here - perfect amount of vibrato IMO. Vista sounds like somebody put an LFO on it - intense! All the time! CSS sounds good too but I like the tone of SFAS better.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jdiggity1 said:


> Well, here's my "test run" with it. Tried to incorporate everything it offers.
> 
> View attachment Jaypassionata.mp3


Really nice!


----------



## Justin L. Franks

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Really like SFAS (is that the official acronym now? AS? SAPPY?) here - perfect amount of vibrato IMO. Vista sounds like somebody put an LFO on it - intense! All the time! CSS sounds good too but I like the tone of SFAS better.


SAS I think.


----------



## Virtuoso

Am I doing something wrong, or can you not switch between Legato and Slurred Legato without err... letting go of the note? (so it's no longer legato)


----------



## labyrinths

Virtuoso said:


> Am I doing something wrong, or can you not switch between Legato and Slurred Legato without err... letting go of the note? (so it's no longer legato)


I hope I'm not missing something here but AFAICT the main legato technique includes the slurred transitions from velocities 1-99 so I'm not sure you'd ever need to switch between these.


----------



## Flyo

Justin L. Franks said:


> No direct vibrato control, but you get more vibrato with the higher dynamic layers.


Sadly there it’s no way to dial in vibrato switch! Is baked on dynamics but lower dynamics with full amointof
Vibrato is a passionate style also so much useful. Great sounding lib, wish they release HiLegato for ABOne first.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

So it can actually do pretty good agile lines for the most part actually...

I've got the legato offset at 140ms here

(I also figured out the portamento thing, its not just when the velocity is hit hard, but it's when you're in the loudest dynamic of the mod wheel and hit the velocity hard)

Please excuse my shit playing haha

View attachment fast string test .mp3


----------



## muziksculp

Baronvonheadless said:


> (I also figured out the portamento thing, its not just when the velocity is hit hard, but it's when you're in the loudest dynamic of the mod wheel and hit the velocity hard)


Yes, Paul Thomson mentions this in his walkthrough video.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Baronvonheadless said:


> Great work! Which mics did you use? or are vibing with the most here?


Thanks! This was mostly just the outriggers, with a _teensy_ bit of mids that are automated to help different lines pop out at different times. And by teensy, I mean "fader is down at about -30" levels of teensy. Turn 'em down when you want lush, turn 'em up when you wanna bring in a bit of focus.



ChickenAndARoll said:


> I'm having the same dilemma right now, this library sounds fantastic but I'm worried that it might be redundant since I already have CSS


I'm a pretty big CSS fanboy, and it will still be my "desert island" library, but Appassionata is going to be my first choice for legatos from here on, for what that's worth. I'll use CSS only when Appassionata can't do something that CSS can do (like slower portamentos at low dynamics).
I see them both as having different personalities, so they lend themselves to different things better. My demo would not have been written the way it was if I were using CSS.



Noeticus said:


> Dear @Jdiggity1 ,
> 
> Spitfire should hire you and have this wonderful piece of music on their site, as it is the BEST demo I have heard so far.


That is very kind of you to say. It's funny you should think of it as a demo, as I wrote it with "demo" in mind. It's what I like to do when I get a new library. Try and milk it, explore all the 'features' of it in one go. It helps learn it quicker and ingrain the strengths of it into your brain so you know when to call it up.
In the context of this one, that meant making use of all the recorded dynamics (I start at pp, build up to ff by the middle of it.) Using the portamentos (Violins 1 at 0:55, 0:58. Violins 2 at 1:03, downward celli slide at 1:09, etc.), using the hairpins (bow change) at 0:38 and 1:48, layering the "glancing attacks" over the low strings scales at 1:18..... you get my point.  



Fever Phoenix said:


> my man..
> ...very beautiful
> but that is you
> not the library
> (it probably helps though)


Thank you. But I'd say this one's a 50/50 split



MA-Simon said:


> It does sound very nice. Love the vibrato style and sound of this library!
> 
> I Played arround with it a bit. Have to admit that I am a bit dissapointed that there is no sampled samenote rebows (I could find), which is weird for a dedicated legato library. Or again no release length controls. Makes it very hard to play stuff in live.


The re-bows are possible with the use of a separate hairpin track and a CC dip, but I agree it'd be phenomenal if I could rebow within the one track.
The release control does change the length as well as the volume, but the longest release is still quite short. That's where I'd recommend using a "hairpin" artic at the end of phrases to get a more natural sounding note-off. 



Virtuoso said:


> Am I doing something wrong, or can you not switch between Legato and Slurred Legato without err... letting go of the note? (so it's no longer legato)


Slurred legato below velocity 100, detache above velocity 100.
The separate slurred legato articulation is just a limited version of the main legato artic. (admittedly a slightly confusing inclusion)


----------



## Jackal_King

I went ahead on pulling the Affirm trigger and just purchased it. May take all night and tomorrow morning to download it. But at least it'll give me the entire weekend to play with it.


----------



## blaggins

Just noticed this from the user manual. 



> Choose from 12 different reverbs curated using the Abbey Road Studio 2 Plates and Chambers. Use the Large Hall Impulse to blend with Abbey Road ONE.


Pretty interesting, looks like blending with AR1 is a built-in option. Although I would note that in the plugin there are only 3 options (St. Lukes, Gilded Hall, and Stage).


----------



## EgM

Jdiggity1 said:


> Well, here's my "test run" with it. Tried to incorporate everything it offers.
> 
> View attachment Jaypassionata.mp3


Nice! Any way I could get my hands on a midi of that track so I can compare how it feels to what I already have?...


----------



## KEM

Can we expect updates to legatos on previous libraries then? Or is it too late for that and they’d have to do new recordings?


----------



## Justin L. Franks

tpoots said:


> Just noticed this from the user manual.
> 
> 
> Pretty interesting, looks like blending with AR1 is a built-in option. Although I would note that in the plugin there are only 3 options (St. Lukes, Gilded Hall, and Stage).


Looks like they just copy-pasted that part of the manual from Abbey Road Two: Iconic Strings. There are several copy-paste issues like that in other Spitfire product manuals.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

KEM said:


> Can we expect updates to legatos on previous libraries then? Or is it too late for that and they’d have to do new recordings?


This was done with new recording techniques.


----------



## chapbot

MA-Simon said:


> It does sound very nice. Love the vibrato style and sound of this library!
> 
> I Played arround with it a bit. Have to admit that I am a bit dissapointed that there is no sampled samenote rebows (I could find), which is weird for a dedicated legato library. Or again no release length controls. Makes it very hard to play stuff in live.


No rebows? In 2022? This _is_ a nice sounding library and at a good price with the discount, but I'll patiently wait for Pacific.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Getting a bit more comfortable with the library! 
View attachment AS Melody .mp3
Mostly Mix 3 here


----------



## labyrinths

I'm not sure if this will be useful to anyone here (and there's not much to it with so few articulations), but I threw together a Reaticulate bank while adding this to my template and figured I'd share:


----------



## KEM

Justin L. Franks said:


> This was done with new recording techniques.



I know I was moreso thinking about the new things they learned about programming legatos, they could potentially go back and change them in older libraries


----------



## Kent

KEM said:


> I know I was moreso thinking about the new things they learned about programming legatos, they could potentially go back and change them in older libraries


That would likely require recordings that don’t exist. (Not to say it’s necessarily impossible, but I’d wager incredibly highly unlikely)


----------



## PaulieDC

Fever Phoenix said:


> you must have a life! not coming here and speculating with us for days!


OH yeah, I absolutely have a life, pontificating in the OTHER threads in the forum to the point of missing this one!


----------



## tmhuud

Great library chaps. Carry on.


----------



## KEM

Kent said:


> That would likely require recordings that don’t exist. (Not to say it’s necessarily impossible, but I’d wager incredibly highly unlikely)



That’s what I figured, I’m sure they could benefit from updated scripting but I figured they would have to do more recordings to really get them to the level of this library


----------



## PaulieDC

Joël Dollié said:


> The room, and especially the highs aren't even comparable to CSS imo. CSS is noise in the highs especially on lower dyns wheras this has great higher air harmonics that extend. Tip for AS, don't use close mics unless you're going for something specific, and create your mic mix around the outrigs


Excellent tip, thank you. I've been doing mixing and live sound for decades but not in orchestral, and when I heard your mix on Luke Olney's _Man's Best Friend_, and then discovered you have an orchestral mixing & mastering course on Teachable, I bought that course in a New York minute. After I finish my current Berklee course in April, that's my next training to go through (already watched some, itching to get back to it). 👍🏼

Anyone else reading this who wants great instruction in this area, you'll want to check out his course. I don't know Joel personally, this is just me sharing something when you find a good thing.


----------



## PaulieDC

Jdiggity1 said:


> The re-bows are possible with the use of a separate hairpin track and a CC dip...


Boy, I'd love to see a short video or even a screen shot on how you actually execute that.




*HUGE HINT*


----------



## MelodicAdagio

I think this is a really beautiful sounding library. Hats off to Spitfire. I hadn't planned on getting any more libraries so soon after all the Black Friday and holiday sales, but at $162, I couldn't pass it up. It's still downloading for me now, but it sounds like it will be great for lyrical and emotive stuff. Can't wait to try it out.

Predicatably in a VI Control thread about a legato product, responses pretty much divided neatly into three categories: the impressed ("Wow!"), the unimpressed (yawn) and the critical ("Here's what's wrong with it..."). I think sometimes people are chasing a legato ideal like someone chasing a rainbow.


----------



## Evans

PaulieDC said:


> Boy, I'd love to see a short video or even a screen shot on how you actually execute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *HUGE HINT*


Experiment.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Why do people keep saying SF legato were so bad before AS? How could Ch. Strings become so popular if the legatos are so bad? 😕


----------



## Tekkera

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Why do people keep saying SF legato were so bad before AS? How could Ch. Strings become so popular if the legatos are so bad? 😕


Because of the room and recordings, spaces this good and recordings this good are extremely uncommon in samples. SF had (now past tense) a notorious reputation at times especially for some artics/patches for shoddy work, and shoddy legato scripting and sampling. Phasey, bumpy, inconsistent, you name it they've done it.


----------



## ism

prodigalson said:


> Compared a quick improvised line to Vista and CSS trying to go through the dynamic layers. see what you think for yourself?
> 
> To me they're all pretty good. CSS may seem smoother overall but is definitely "behind" expressively even when on the grid and correct offsets are applied. It also doesn't have the detail or tone of SFAS. It also has that strong vibrato that people may or may not be into. Vista also has that vibrato and sounds good but, to me, I've always chafed at the way Vista has so much vibrato and intensity right on the transitions. There's no room for the notes to breathe even on the lowest dynamics as you get the impression they're just sawing away no matter the dynamic.
> 
> SFAS has more dynamic range to me. the pp sounds more pp and the f sounds more f. There's also user controllable slurred vs. bowed transitions that I used to effect here. Bowing when appropriate and slurring when appropriate. Neither Vista nor CSS have this.
> 
> YMMV. Horses for courses and all that.




This is a fun and illuminating comparison.

The contrast with Vista is particularly interesting. To my ear, Vista is full of latency, maybe trepidatious in it warblyness, but also just needing to really let loose and hit that ff layer. It’s beautiful in it’s own right, if it fits the context of the piece. (And that it still sounds good in lower dynamics is a real strength of Vista over Soaring string, in which the lower dynamics feel like they’re only there as a speed bump to the soaring effect in the higher dynamics.

Buy AS really feels lyrically realized at these lower dynamics. The f layer (does the legato even have a ff layer?) is there for emphasis, and expressive effect, not an mandatory destination. Very much my thing, most of the time. 

CSS is nice too … but it’s a bit harder to place. Knowing the library, I know that if you were to let loose with a soaring line, CSS would sound as good as Vista, and probably better than AS. But in a line with this kind of expressively lyricism rather than a more bombastically romantic or soaring varian … it fells a bit … flat.

And CSS also just can’t compete with AIR for sheer sonority, which I feel really start to matter a *lot* more in this kind of lyricism than in a more soaring type of high romanticism. 

All great libraries. But AS is an extremely welcome addition to the expressive palette.


----------



## PaulieDC

cedricm said:


> Page 32 of the User Manual:
> *Impulse Legato(*)* = SQRT( GAS^2 + FOMO^3 + COUNTOF(VICPOSTS)^4 )
> - SUM(PURCHASES(2021))/1000
> 
> (*) Patent pending.


I put my total library purchases for 2021 in the last segment and smoke started emanating from my TI-83 calculator.


----------



## ism

Tekkera said:


> Because of the room and recordings, spaces this good and recordings this good are extremely uncommon in samples. SF had (now past tense) a notorious reputation at times especially for some artics/patches for shoddy work, and shoddy legato scripting and sampling. Phasey, bumpy, inconsistent, you name it they've done it.



+1 to the first part. But at least a part of that reputation has arisen from a tenancy to misapply the aesthetics of CSS-like libraries to libraries that really aren’t, and never have been, trying to do the whole soaring romanticism thing.


----------



## Jdiggity1

PaulieDC said:


> Boy, I'd love to see a short video or even a screen shot on how you actually execute that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *HUGE HINT*




This is just using the CC1 "dip" trick - no layering. (A pointy dip in CC data half-way through the long notes.)
Slower passages tend to get away with the dip trick more as you can "swell" back into the next note.
Faster passages will need a layer of either hairpin or glancing attack on top to add attack without so much swell.


----------



## Tekkera

ism said:


> +1 to the first part. But at least a part of that reputation has arisen from a tenancy to misapply the aesthetics of CSS-like libraries to libraries that really aren’t, and never have been, trying to do the whole soaring romanticism thing.


I wasn't referring to that


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh




----------



## prodigalson

OK, I couldn't help myself with trying to put this in the room with other players right away and noodled a little cue. SFAS fits right in (unsurprisingly) with various articulations from all sorts of SF's catalogue. All sounds are from SF libraries recorded at AIR. various Albions, SCS, Symphonic Evos and SF Harp and Perc. With the exception of the low pad, and high harmonics all longs/legatos are from SFAS.


----------



## PaulieDC

Jdiggity1 said:


> This is just using the CC1 "dip" trick - no layering.
> Slower passages tend to get away with the dip trick more as you can "swell" back into the next note.
> Faster passages will need a layer of either hairpin or glancing attack on top to add attack without so much swell.



Wow! Thank you!!


----------



## PaulieDC

Stephen Limbaugh said:


>


LOVE it! In Garritan CFX I always turn off the pedal noise, lol! I was JUST thinking about that last night... we drove ourselves bonkers 30 years ago to try and cut that out, and now we add in pedal, bowing, the flautist breathing in, somebody coughing in the third row, you name it.

Don't ask me, i just lurk here.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

prodigalson said:


> OK, I couldn't help myself with trying to put this in the room with other players right away and noodled a little cue. SFAS fits right in (unsurprisingly) with various articulations from all sorts of SF's catalogue. All sounds are from SF libraries recorded at AIR. various Albions, SCS, Symphonic Evos and SF Harp and Perc. With the exception of the low pad, and high harmonics all longs/legatos are from SFAS.


I could see this slot right into the Downton Abbey score. VERY EMOTIONAL. This library has such a gorgeous tone to it.


----------



## liquidlino

We are all missing the most important thing here. What. The. Fuck. Did. Loki. Have. To. Do. With. This?


----------



## holywilly

Did a speed writing using Appassionata:

View attachment 68880


A little help with Elite, adding more definitions.
View attachment 68881


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Jdiggity1 said:


> This is just using the CC1 "dip" trick - no layering.
> Slower passages tend to get away with the dip trick more as you can "swell" back into the next note.
> Faster passages will need a layer of either hairpin or glancing attack on top to add attack without so much swell.



Wait so what is this dip trick?


----------



## PaulieDC

Evans said:


> Experiment.


I was too stupid to know what I didn't know, so I had no idea what was being explained. But the video he shared explained it.


----------



## jazzman7

SF had a BIG hole to fill when it came to legato. They hit the target dead center and didn't kill us on the price side to do it. I feel MUCH more confident that their upcoming AR Modular will be up to snuff with Legato now. Spitfire has upped their game (and my GAS, Dammit!)

I have Vista and CSS. This is it's own beast and sounds wonderful! I will probably pull the trigger tonight or tomorrow. I wouldn't be surprised if this winds up being my go to legato VI now. Stunning!


----------



## jazzman7

liquidlino said:


> We are all missing the most important thing here. What. The. Fuck. Did. Loki. Have. To. Do. With. This?


The ability to make me believe SF can do Legato in a top notch way and make off with my wallet while doing it...that's gotta be where He comes in!


----------



## wunderflo

In the specs it says..



> Legato (Combo): The core legato technique - a combination of slurred, bowed and intense Sul I intervals with repetition based alt-attacks. (with Vibrato, 5 Dye, 4 RR, velocity controlled switching between Legato Types)


Does this mean, it has RR legato that allows going back and forth between two notes more convincingly? I didn't hear that in the walkthrough or demos, so I can't really imagine they accomplished such a rare feature without making a bigger deal out of it?


----------



## Ricgus3

Jdiggity1 said:


> Well, here's my "test run" with it. Tried to incorporate everything it offers.
> 
> View attachment Jaypassionata.mp3


Wow at 1:00 those high notes!


----------



## Inventio

Zanshin said:


> Intimate Strings would you get you shorts in Air that would sound the part for cheap, but if you want section shorts no bueno


Good idea


----------



## muziksculp

Wow ! Spitfire Audio has been on a Strings Roll this Jan. 2022 (I love it) 🧡 🎻🎻🎻👏👏👏 

AR2 Iconic Strings
Originals Frozen Cinematic Strings
Appassionata Strings 

Looking forward to AR-1 Modular Strings 😎👍


----------



## Getsumen

wunderflo said:


> In the specs it says..
> 
> 
> Does this mean, it has RR legato that allows going back and forth between two notes more convincingly? I didn't hear that in the walkthrough or demos, so I can't really imagine they accomplished such a rare feature without making a bigger deal out of it?


RR isn't on the transitions I believe if I'm reading that right


----------



## borisb2

Take me away, SAS …


----------



## Loerpert

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Every time I think of your comment about HZS on release, I can’t help laughing! That was so funny 😎👍


You mean about Jack Sparrow slapping his private parts in your face? xD


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Lars Hogendoorn

Karma said:


> Here's a Shawshank mockup I did during the development stage for this one. Modwheel doesn't even hit higher than mf in this example too. Really shows off the beautiful soft side I feel!


OK. That was totally convincing. I’m sold.


----------



## Lars Hogendoorn

Karma said:


> Here's a Shawshank mockup I did during the development stage for this one. Modwheel doesn't even hit higher than mf in this example too. Really shows off the beautiful soft side I feel!


And this is just right out of the box? No added EQ, fx etc?


----------



## jononotbono

Just listened to Blakus’ piece. Sounds amazing!


----------



## Lars Hogendoorn

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Mmm I'd like some strawberries with that cream please...


Hey Chris, are you going to do a YT vid about this? Just asking on behalf of all your followers (but mainly for myself)…


----------



## holywilly

Oh God, can't stop noodling with Appassionata strings, here's another quick write. 
Noodling done, back to work.

View attachment Appassionata_Orch.mp3


----------



## jamwerks

They sound great ! Do the arcs have release samples that let you stop or change note at any point ? VSL's latest libraries have that feature ! 

The obvious follow-up to these would be the same but with mutes !!


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

I wonder how long legato's transitions are? What's their delay?


----------



## Banquet

These demos sound wonderful! I haven't had the chance to read all the comments yet but how do people feel these would blend with SSS and SCS? All recorded at Air, but with SSS being 16 violins, SCS being 4 and this being 8 - it kind of sits in the middle.... is that great, or does it mean possible issues getting them to play together? 

I was waiting for Pacific, but could jump ship!


----------



## AdamKmusic

I am quite tempted! £125 is an absolute bargain, I bet these will play very nicely with the OAEvo libraries


----------



## holywilly

I did some editing to the first piece. I use MIX 4 as the default in my template, then apply Cinematic Room Professional on the string bus, no extra processing are added.

View attachment Appassionata_Str.mp3


----------



## Flyo

Being a more smaller section size and recorded in another hall of course, this could be blend good with BBC Pro? not to layering but to replace strings legatos arregments of BBC with Passionata and use all the others arts from BBC?


----------



## Mithnaur

Download complete! First hot tests very conclusive. Sound, size, fluidity, mics, everything is there!
Obviously you should not take this lib for something else than it is, but I find that it fulfills its role wonderfully.
After all, I'm not as technical and demanding as some people, but for sure I don't regret my purchase.
And for the moment I've only scratched the surface.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

wunderflo said:


> In the specs it says..
> 
> 
> Does this mean, it has RR legato that allows going back and forth between two notes more convincingly? I didn't hear that in the walkthrough or demos, so I can't really imagine they accomplished such a rare feature without making a bigger deal out of it?


I'm thinking an 80 GB sample library for legato strings only has got to have RR legatos. Either that or it has way too many mic options.


----------



## Eptesicus

These do sound very nice (perhaps the nicest strings sound Spitfire have released thus far). However, I feel like they are redundant for myself as a CSS and Vista owner. I still think they both have the slight edge in realism from listening to the demos of these.

The intro price is really good though for those that don't have something like CSS/Vista already.


----------



## paularthur

That Paul Thomson demo is beautiful!


----------



## Brasart

jamwerks said:


> They sound great ! Do the arcs have release samples that let you stop or change note at any point ? VSL's latest libraries have that feature !
> 
> The obvious follow-up to these would be the same but with mutes !!


Yes, you can almost play them like a "short" patch, even though it doesn't sound as good as a dedicated staccato patch


----------



## sundrowned

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I'm thinking an 80 GB sample library for legato strings only has got to have RR legatos. Either that or it has way too many mic options.


There are 11 mics/mixes so presumably it works out at 7.5gb per signal. Unless the mixes happen on the fly but I doubt it.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

How good is Legato repetition?


----------



## Ricgus3

Karma said:


> Here's a Shawshank mockup I did during the development stage for this one. Modwheel doesn't even hit higher than mf in this example too. Really shows off the beautiful soft side I feel!


Wow! This sold it to me! Will get it next month though  January is not easy on the wallet. Such a beutiful string sound! Would this blend well with SStS? Or Albion NEO?


----------



## wunderflo

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I'm thinking an 80 GB sample library for legato strings only has got to have RR legatos. Either that or it has way too many mic options.


well there are indeed many mic/mix options. 

So I asked support and there seem to be no real RR legatos (as for example in Afflatus). However, you can automate the legato offset and also use different dynamic layers to get some variations on the transitions. Would anyone mind to please confirm whether that works when playing back and forth between two notes? (something similar to what the chord patches do in ARK 5)


----------



## Marco_D

wunderflo said:


> So I asked support and there seem to be no real RR legatos (as for example in Afflatus).


That's confusing, because the manual seems to say the exact opposite:

7. ROUND ROBINS Round robins are a way to ensure that repeated notes don’t sound robotic and unnatural. We record the same note multiple times and then cycle through them. Here you can choose to reduce the number of round robins that are being used.

Can anyone clarify this? RR on legato is rare and it's a major factor for me in deciding whether to buy this.


----------



## wunderflo

Marco_D said:


> That's confusing, because the manual seems to say the exact opposite:
> 
> 7. ROUND ROBINS Round robins are a way to ensure that repeated notes don’t sound robotic and unnatural. We record the same note multiple times and then cycle through them. Here you can choose to reduce the number of round robins that are being used.
> 
> Can anyone clarify this? RR on legato is rare and it's a major factor for me in deciding whether to buy this.


there are surely RRs, but probably only on notes that aren't connected?


----------



## FireGS

FireGS said:


> Anyone else notice a super resonant fundamental B4/C4 on Violins 1/2?


No one?


----------



## iMovieShout

Really - yet another string library, that for most is likely overkill for most projects.
I think Spitfire Audio will now be considering seriously about renaming their business to String Audio !!

That said, I suppose with so many staff these days, they need to find a way to keep them engaged and productive, and by producing lots and lots of libraries, they can keep their staff employed.
The money in the music industry is perhaps to be found in selling as many libraries to students as is possible in the smallest amount of time.
Too cynical? Well it is Friday


----------



## mussnig

Ricgus3 said:


> Wow! This sold it to me! Will get it next month though  January is not easy on the wallet. Such a beutiful string sound! Would this blend well with SStS? I don't own any AIR products (yet) but I own thhe Studio Strings from the other room


Obviously you will have to bring the sound of Studio Strings more towards Air Lyndhurst. That's usually not a problem but it's much easier to do if you have Studio Strings Pro.

Use Mix 2 or blend C1, C2, T2 and O mics to taste (maybe a bit of A if you like) and use some nice reverb. In the end, add a bit of reverb tail to both libs and maybe a bit of compression (also try parallel compression). Depending on your taste, apply some EQ first (tip: play a usual long with both libs and look at the spectrum, try to bring SStS towards the other one) and depending on your reverb, using something like Panagement could help as well. Also, when you want to determine the right amount and length of the reverb tail, it is sometimes helpful to listen to everything in mono.


----------



## juliandoe

Being an owner of ARO I was wondering how Appassionata would blend with it and if it would make more sense to wait for the release of the string legato modules...


----------



## Vik

NoamL said:


> Remember when they said BBCSO was the "new universal starting point" or something? And this library is "15 years in the making."


Sure, and also: Abbey Road Orchestral Foundations 'shall take take sampling to new heights', and bring us 'an amazing range of new products'. Nevertheless, all of that was probably true when they wrote it. The fact that SF now releases an appassionata library with up tp 5 dynamic layers is still great news, especially for those who wondered why it took them so long to catch up with products like CSS, Vista, Con Moto and Soaring Strings.

The Abbey Road platform seems to be their main focus now, but that wouldn't be a good reason to not release an Air based library they have worked on for several years; one which offers more believable legato and dynamics solutions than they have offered in most of theuir libraries, I'd probably have bough SF Appassionata immediately if I hadn't already bought several of the other mentioned libraries.

Edit: If the Spitfire Studio Strings legatos could be updated/elevated to the SAS standards, SStS would probably get a lot more users as well.


----------



## rottoy

Karma said:


> Here's a Shawshank mockup I did during the development stage for this one. Modwheel doesn't even hit higher than mf in this example too. Really shows off the beautiful soft side I feel!


I love that this library might be the only time, from a Spitfire Audio offering,
that my ears are inclined to just forget that I'm listening to sampled instruments. Stunning.

It being a Thomas Newman piece probably also helps.


----------



## Trevor Meier

jazzman7 said:


> SF had a BIG hole to fill when it came to legato. They hit the target dead center and didn't kill us on the price side to do it. I feel MUCH more confident that their upcoming AR Modular will be up to snuff with Legato now. Spitfire has upped their game (and my GAS, Dammit!)


I feel the same. If this is a preview of AR1 modular, I’m all in.


----------



## Trevor Meier

Karma said:


> Here's a Shawshank mockup I did during the development stage for this one. Modwheel doesn't even hit higher than mf in this example too. Really shows off the beautiful soft side I feel!


God that is spine-tinglingly good… well done mate


----------



## Ricgus3

thought about getting intimate string with appassionata to get a Air hall string sections with shorts and longs and legato ( cheapest way in?) I own Albion NEO which is recorded in Air. Anyone would be kind enough to use NEO strings A+B (same size together as apassionata right?) and record some legato lines with NEO shorts to see if it blends well?


----------



## Ricgus3

mussnig said:


> Obviously you will have to bring the sound of Studio Strings more towards Air Lyndhurst. That's usually not a problem but it's much easier to do if you have Studio Strings Pro.
> 
> Use Mix 2 or blend C1, C2, T2 and O mics to taste (maybe a bit of A if you like) and use some nice reverb. In the end, add a bit of reverb tail to both libs and maybe a bit of compression (also try parallel compression). Depending on your taste, apply some EQ first (tip: play a usual long with both libs and look at the spectrum, try to bring SStS towards the other one) and depending on your reverb, using something like Panagement could help as well. Also, when you want to determine the right amount and length of the reverb tail, it is sometimes helpful to listen to everything in mono.


Thank you! I remembered I have Albion NEO so I was now thinking if that works well enough


----------



## Sunny Schramm

Has to be an not updated manual from an earlier product right? I can only see "three" reverbs to choose from. The "stage"-reverb should be AIR Studios right?


----------



## Justin L. Franks

Sunny Schramm said:


> Has to be an not updated manual from an earlier product right? I can only see "three" reverbs to choose from...


Yup, it's a copy-paste from the Abbey Road Two: Iconic Strings manual.


----------



## Sunny Schramm

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I'm thinking an 80 GB sample library for legato strings only has got to have RR legatos. Either that or it has way too many mic options.


would be cool to be able to delete mic-positions you or the pre-mixes dont need to safe space.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Karma said:


> Here's a Shawshank mockup I did during the development stage for this one. Modwheel doesn't even hit higher than mf in this example too. Really shows off the beautiful soft side I feel!


Thanks! A very good demonstration of soft dynamics. This is exactly what some libraries lack. CSS is a rare case where it is just as great in this regard. Could you tell me how good Legato repetition is?


----------



## Joël Dollié

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Thanks! A very good demonstration of soft dynamics. This is exactly what some libraries lack. CSS is a rare case where it is just as great in this regard. Could you tell me how good Legato repetition is?


I'll have to disagree with that, CSS on soft dynamics (especially swells) can be so noisy it's almost unmanageable and I find myself going as far as low pass filtering to mitigate that. Appaassionata doesn't have that noise issue. CSS legato is also extremely good though.


----------



## Jdiggity1

wunderflo said:


> there are surely RRs, but probably only on notes that aren't connected?





Marco_D said:


> That's confusing, because the manual seems to say the exact opposite:
> 
> 7. ROUND ROBINS Round robins are a way to ensure that repeated notes don’t sound robotic and unnatural. We record the same note multiple times and then cycle through them. Here you can choose to reduce the number of round robins that are being used.
> 
> Can anyone clarify this? RR on legato is rare and it's a major factor for me in deciding whether to buy this.


There are round robin *attacks* for the legato articulation. Not round robin legato transitions.

So, playing the same note will trigger a different attack to the last time, but the legato transitions between two notes will still be the same.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Joël Dollié said:


> I'll have to disagree with that, CSS on soft dynamics (especially swells) can be so noisy it's almost unmanageable and I find myself going as far as low pass filtering to mitigate that. Appaassionata doesn't have that noise issue. CSS legato is also extremely good though.


I know about the noise in the area of low dynamics, there are fewer of them on the other microphones, but that's not what I'm talking about at all.


----------



## Karma

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Thanks! A very good demonstration of soft dynamics. This is exactly what some libraries lack. CSS is a rare case where it is just as great in this regard. Could you tell me how good Legato repetition is?


I feel like it manages really well. The Shawshank demo has a bit more of this so I'd give that another listen, but you can also hear another example in the exposed Cello line from my demo @0:27:


----------



## VVEremita

This increases the value of the whole SSO series, at least from my personal perspective. 

I am happy about this addition. I just recently revisited Andy Blaneys demos for SSO. After some research on this forum I found some older posts by him in which he stated that he does not use additional reverb, compression etc... just the mics. For me, they are some of the most convincing demos for any virtual orchestra, sonically and in terms of artistic value / craftsmanship.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

VVEremita said:


> This increases the value of the whole SSO series, at least from my personal perspective.


I‘m waiting to hear how things work using SAS for legato and SCS/SSS for the other bread and butter articulations like shorts and so on.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Karma said:


> I feel like it manages really well. The Shawshank demo has a bit more of this so I'd give that another listen, but you can also hear another example in the exposed Cello line from my demo @0:27:



Thank you, but in the examples, one repetition of one note is not enough for me, I need more repetitions.


----------



## Karma

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Thank you, but in the examples, one repetition of one note is not enough for me, I need more repetitions.


In that case I'd say just remember there's 4RR of alternate attacks at every dynamic, which is hopefully enough!


----------



## redlester

Sunny Schramm said:


> would be cool to be able to delete mic-positions you or the pre-mixes dont need to safe space.


I would imagine it can be done, in a similar way as with BBC SO.


https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002636258-How-to-remove-microphones-from-BBC-Symphony-Orchestra-Professional


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

@Karma Any tips on achieving a realistic rebow of the same note? Would replaying the note be better as to trigger another attack (maybe with high velocity) or is a mod / exp dip your preference?


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Karma said:


> In that case I'd say just remember there's 4RR of alternate attacks at every dynamic, which is hopefully enough!


I would like to hear examples of this, both in solo and in polyphony. It's very important for writing like a chorale. My fear is that there may be voids between these transitions if each new note is just an attack, and not real performances of changing the bow on the same repeating note. Is it so?


----------



## rottoy

VVEremita said:


> This increases the value of the whole SSO series, at least from my personal perspective.
> 
> I am happy about this addition. I just recently revisited Andy Blaneys demos for SSO. After some research on this forum I found some older posts by him in which he stated that he does not use additional reverb, compression etc... just the mics. For me, they are some of the most convincing demos for any virtual orchestra, sonically and in terms of artistic value / craftsmanship.


Andy Blaney more importantly dabbles in black magic when it comes to creating mockups.
The man is a skilled composer and a masterful sample wrangler.

He drives us crazy.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

Karma said:


> I feel like it manages really well. The Shawshank demo has a bit more of this so I'd give that another listen, but you can also hear another example in the exposed Cello line from my demo @0:27:



very well written, orchestrated and programmed!


----------



## Zanshin

My quick honeymoon review: Fantastic! Spitfire nailed it with this release, the strings feel alive under my fingers. I love how you can play spirited detache (with fast strong attacks - unusual for SF) and then go right into legato. The mixes and mics are all great and useful. I think this a is a must have if you are invested in Air at all, and a worthy contender if you are not.


----------



## szczaw

cedricm said:


> Page 32 of the User Manual:
> *Impulse Legato(*)* = SQRT( GAS^2 + FOMO^3 + COUNTOF(VICPOSTS)^4 )
> - SUM(PURCHASES(2021))/1000
> 
> (*) Patent pending.


If legato_police then
random_legato()
elseif DJ then
explode_CPU()
end


----------



## szczaw

Latest addition to Spitfire script (we toned it down a bit):
if DJ and velocity > 100 then
volume = volume * 1000
end


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic

Lars Hogendoorn said:


> Hey Chris, are you going to do a YT vid about this? Just asking on behalf of all your followers (but mainly for myself)…


Absolutely.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

Since I don't plan to watch a gazillion demos and walkthroughs (as I do far too often) I just bought it and will do all that by myself


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

MA-Simon said:


> It does sound very nice. Love the vibrato style and sound of this library!
> 
> I Played arround with it a bit. Have to admit that I am a bit dissapointed that there is no sampled samenote rebows (I could find), which is weird for a dedicated legato library. Or again no release length controls. Makes it very hard to play stuff in live.


Thanks for the answer, and I was just looking for it. Very sorry. However, THE NEXT GENERATION OF STRING LEGATOS is a strong word!


----------



## AudioLoco

Wow! It's kind of a PS Vista recorded at Air.....

Heavily considering and hovering....

Demos sounding nice....


----------



## RogiervG

VVEremita said:


> This increases the value of the whole SSO series, at least from my personal perspective.
> 
> I am happy about this addition. I just recently revisited Andy Blaneys demos for SSO. After some research on this forum I found some older posts by him in which he stated that he does not use additional reverb, compression etc... just the mics. For me, they are some of the most convincing demos for any virtual orchestra, sonically and in terms of artistic value / craftsmanship.


Wait what? is Blaney on this Forum?! got a link?


----------



## Baronvonheadless

^^ yes. It’s me, Andey Blaney. 

Venmo Baronvonheadless $500 and I’ll send you my template and all my other secrets!


----------



## RogiervG

if you pay me 1000$ i am willing to pay you 500, how nice a guy i am!


----------



## Baronvonheadless

I’m willing to pay you $1000 but I’m short half. If you can send me $500 then I’ll be able to pay you the full $1000.


----------



## RogiervG

Baronvonheadless said:


> I’m willing to pay you $1000 but I’m short half. If you can send me $500 then I’ll be able to pay you the full $1000.


I tried.. but My bank says no...  they found it too suspecious somehow.
I told them.. but it's Andey Blaney.. Blaney!.. they still said no..

update: they said: Andey Blaney is not Andy Blaney..


----------



## Loerpert

Tried comparing Appassionata to CSS. They sound different but both have their kind of magic if you ask me. Appassionata is the default mix and for CSS I used close and tree mics to match Appassionata a bit. I used no effects. It's out of the box sound. Oh and CSS has no hairpins so I used Sfz.


----------



## mussnig

Today I found this nice comparison on YouTube: 

However, I think for a completely fair comparison, the MIDI would need more adjustments for each lib and also the balances between the sections are a bit off sometimes.

Also, SStS Pro should probably have been used with the "standard" section sizes of the lib. Would be the same as Appassionata and would also provide Portamentos.

Still a great video to better get a feeling for the sonic differences between the libs.


----------



## Inventio

Go To 11 said:


> That's not the same as bow change legato. That usually involves being able to hold down the sustain pedal and hit the same note over and over again, and each time hear a bow change connected note, rather than a new start note, or overlapping notes. Cinematic Studio Strings does this perfectly.


I think effective bow change over the same note would be a great feature for this type of library. I have a few libraries that do rebow and I see that suddenly my melodies could have repeated notes, too - that's funny to say, as a composer but you know what I mean: with sample libraries you always have something that can't be done effectively, and so you avoid that until you cannot have it right (if you don't record with live musicians).


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

I think rebowing of the same note should be a requirement with modern string libraries. It's not a decoration, it's a technique. It opens up so many more possibilities.


----------



## RogiervG

Just realised something: Why isn't there a Blaney demo for Appassionata on the spitfire site?


----------



## zolhof

Does the "hairpin bow change" articulation work like polyphonic arcs in 8Dio libraries?


----------



## Batrawi

ism said:


> Yep. And the arcs, with the legato are just gorgeous.
> 
> (Here's a WIP that attempts to really lean into the effect of the arc + legato:
> 
> 
> View attachment LSCS - WIP - ism.mp3
> 
> )
> 
> 
> OT has a fragments of this capacity, for instance when you turn on the legato on portato or swells. And Sarah's Adachi adds something also similar to Adagio via in rescripting the arcs. Although neither are as fully realized the LSCS in the way the legato works with the arcs.
> 
> Meanwhile, the arcs (waves) in OACE are were just entirely a revelation.
> 
> So here's hoping that there something like this with the sound of OACE / SCS / Neo / Tundra etc is in on the horizon. That would be amazing.


that was LSCS😯?!!!


----------



## Loerpert

RogiervG said:


> Just realised something: Why isn't there a Blaney demo for Appassionata on the spitfire site?


Because then they would never sell any future libraries


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I think rebowing of the same note should be a requirement with modern string libraries. It's not a decoration, it's a technique. It opens up so many more possibilities.


Absolutely! Even if this (re blowing of the same note) would be included, it can't be the next generation, because we don't see anything evolutionarily new in legato. For the Spitfire it is possible, but not for the market as a whole. We are marking time, reveling in the sounds of the hall, nothing more.


----------



## ism

Batrawi said:


> that was LSCS😯?!!!


Yes it was  

But it really leans in to just how powerfully expressive the arcs are, while the official demos are perhaps, at least arguably, a little more ... mainstream ... or something.

It was really only after OACE that I was alerted to just how powerful waves/arcs and other recorded dynamics are (especially decrescendos - see Sunset Strings, because holy crap the Sunset decrescendos are gorgeous).

So I'm entirely enthralled by just how beautiful the hairpins are in Appassionata, and can't want to get stuck into all the expressive space they open up.


----------



## RogiervG

Loerpert said:


> Because then they would never sell any future libraries


Oh you mean all those other libraries they sell, where there IS a blaney demo?


----------



## Saxer

zolhof said:


> Does the "hairpin bow change" articulation work like polyphonic arcs in 8Dio libraries?


No. They are one-shots.


----------



## Scamper

I tried the library now. Here's just a quick demo for a short legato comparison with SCS, SSS, BBCSO, CSS and Vista.

Compared to SCS and SSS, I think the legato is much better and it's very playable and emotive. Despite the 5 dynamic layers, it doesn't have quite the dynamic range of SCS/SSS though and doesn't really get into FF. CSS and Vista might have still better legatos for me, but overall, they're all somewhat different beasts with their own feel.

Is it worth it, if you have SCS or SSS? You decide...





Later, I'll finish and post my integration demo with SCS and SSS.


----------



## molemac

One thing I would miss from SAS is the ability to add or subtract vibrato Intensity. I realise no string library has managed this successfully (ie its either a cross fade or a choice none or regular molto etc..)
Can anyone confirm if in SAS there is less vib on lower dynamics and more on higher as would naturally happen. Playing in midi string lines with a breath controller or an ewi sending out cc1 and cc2 for vib at the same time always gives me a more realistic control of expression, in my mind anyway.


----------



## Brasart

Scamper said:


> I tried the library now. Here's just a quick demo for a short legato comparison with SCS, SSS, BBCSO, CSS and Vista.
> 
> Compared to SCS and SSS, I think the legato is much better and it's very playable and emotive. Despite the 5 dynamic layers, it doesn't have quite the dynamic range of SCS/SSS though and doesn't really get into FF. CSS and Vista might have still better legatos for me, but overall, they're all somewhat different beasts with their own feel.
> 
> Is it worth it, if you have SCS or SSS? You decide...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later, I'll finish and post my integration demo with SCS and SSS.



Really great comparison tracks, thank you!
I enjoy so much hearing how every string library has its own personality, sometimes we wonder if maybe there are too many string libraries, or if they all start to sound the same... but short excerpts like those make us realize that more choice is always better.

As for SAS, it has a unique tenderness and feeling of being "alive" that shines in your comparison, really like it and glad I've bought it


----------



## Ian Dorsch

Scamper said:


> I tried the library now. Here's just a quick demo for a short legato comparison with SCS, SSS, BBCSO, CSS and Vista.


This is terrific, thank you for sharing this.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Scamper said:


> Is it worth it, if you have SCS or SSS? You decide...


It's tough - I'm not sure. (Btw. I'm reminded how much I just love the scale of SSS)



Scamper said:


> Later, I'll finish and post my integration demo with SCS and SSS.


Looking very much forward to this.

Thanks for doing these comparisons. Edit: Love your string writing too @Scamper 👍


----------



## Loerpert

RogiervG said:


> Oh you mean all those other libraries they sell, where there IS a blaney demo?


Sorry I kinda completely messed that comment up. I meant that if they put an Andy Blaney on the store front, everyone would spend all their money. I meant it in a positive way haha.


----------



## AudioLoco

It is great and all ....
Now SF, please do it for Abbey effing Road Foundation pliiiiiiiiizzzz!!!!!


----------



## RogiervG

Scamper said:


> I tried the library now. Here's just a quick demo for a short legato comparison with SCS, SSS, BBCSO, CSS and Vista.


SAS sound very good indeed.. (same for SCS and SSS in these examples)

However i am wondering about a comparison between lyrical phrases (with counterpoint), instead of chords playing a progression..
I have these libs (SCS, SSS, SAS and BBC core and CSS, not vista).. but still need to download SAS 
So if you would do a comparison... i give you a big thank you


----------



## filipjonathan

Scamper said:


> I tried the library now. Here's just a quick demo for a short legato comparison with SCS, SSS, BBCSO, CSS and Vista.
> 
> Compared to SCS and SSS, I think the legato is much better and it's very playable and emotive. Despite the 5 dynamic layers, it doesn't have quite the dynamic range of SCS/SSS though and doesn't really get into FF. CSS and Vista might have still better legatos for me, but overall, they're all somewhat different beasts with their own feel.
> 
> Is it worth it, if you have SCS or SSS? You decide...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later, I'll finish and post my integration demo with SCS and SSS.



Oh gosh, this made me fall in love with SCS AGAIN!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

mussnig said:


> Today I found this nice comparison on YouTube:
> 
> However, I think for a completely fair comparison, the MIDI would need more adjustments for each lib and also the balances between the sections are a bit off sometimes.
> 
> Also, SStS Pro should probably have been used with the "standard" section sizes of the lib. Would be the same as Appassionata and would also provide Portamentos.
> 
> Still a great video to better get a feeling for the sonic differences between the libs.



Thanks, great video. My favourites are Appassionata, CSS and HS. I’m actually surprised at how “nasally” Berlin Strings sounded....and Cinestrings has those sloppy transitions (maybe it’s just the programming).


----------



## Zanshin

RogiervG said:


> However i am wondering about a comparison between lyrical phrases (with counterpoint), instead of chords playing a progression..


Yeah I have a feeling the more exposed it is the better SAS will do.

Strings in Air is a perfect combination to my ears. People love CSS but I can't get past the musty armpit of a room. Different strokes...


----------



## Vlzmusic

Some nice legato chops on this one, but frankly, the BBCSO strings in their current state are not bad either


----------



## Marco_D

Scamper said:


> I tried the library now. Here's just a quick demo for a short legato comparison with SCS, SSS, BBCSO, CSS and Vista.
> 
> Compared to SCS and SSS, I think the legato is much better and it's very playable and emotive. Despite the 5 dynamic layers, it doesn't have quite the dynamic range of SCS/SSS though and doesn't really get into FF. CSS and Vista might have still better legatos for me, but overall, they're all somewhat different beasts with their own feel.
> 
> Is it worth it, if you have SCS or SSS? You decide...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later, I'll finish and post my integration demo with SCS and SSS.



Thanks. What I find surprising, especially in the second demo, is how well CSS does dynamics. Super soft whispery attack, smoothly rising to F/FF. I was thinking SAS would have the upper hand in that regard, given the 5 dynamic layers... Is this just the way it is, or is it the programming, do you think?


----------



## dylanmixer

Scamper said:


> I tried the library now. Here's just a quick demo for a short legato comparison with SCS, SSS, BBCSO, CSS and Vista.
> 
> Compared to SCS and SSS, I think the legato is much better and it's very playable and emotive. Despite the 5 dynamic layers, it doesn't have quite the dynamic range of SCS/SSS though and doesn't really get into FF. CSS and Vista might have still better legatos for me, but overall, they're all somewhat different beasts with their own feel.
> 
> Is it worth it, if you have SCS or SSS? You decide...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later, I'll finish and post my integration demo with SCS and SSS.



The issue with this is... you make all of these libraries sound good!


----------



## jazzman7

Zanshin said:


> musty armpit of a room.


Haha! I'm gonna have a hard time forgetting that moniker! 

"Just give it a little musty armpit, and it'll be perfect!"


----------



## blaggins

Scamper said:


> I tried the library now. Here's just a quick demo for a short legato comparison with SCS, SSS, BBCSO, CSS and Vista.
> 
> Compared to SCS and SSS, I think the legato is much better and it's very playable and emotive. Despite the 5 dynamic layers, it doesn't have quite the dynamic range of SCS/SSS though and doesn't really get into FF. CSS and Vista might have still better legatos for me, but overall, they're all somewhat different beasts with their own feel.
> 
> Is it worth it, if you have SCS or SSS? You decide...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later, I'll finish and post my integration demo with SCS and SSS.



Thanks for doing this, very helpful. Right now I'm feeling *really* pleased that I have so far avoided buying Vista and CSS. All these libs are all lovely in their own way but SAS is easily my favorite. Not just from this comparison but from all of them in this thread so far. I've been forcing myself to listen to all the comparisons blind (as much as possible) so I generally don't know which is which. Took me quite a few listens to pick a favorite with yours but I'm pleased to admit it was SAS both times.


----------



## juliandoe

Sunny Schramm said:


> Has to be an not updated manual from an earlier product right? I can only see "three" reverbs to choose from. The "stage"-reverb should be AIR Studios right?


great news!
or maybe not... does this mean that we'll never see an ARO module with legato strings?


----------



## jbuhler

Saxer said:


> No. They are one-shots.


Also they aren't very long and they don't seem to have a lot of recorded swell in them, relying on the modwheel for dynamic shaping. (Paul says something about this in the walkthrough.) To me, the short and medium hairpins are more like a short and medium short, resembling the OT short and long portatos, and the glancing attack has a bit more bite.


----------



## MOMA

As I´m in a deep abyss of writing block I know this would not change the status of my composing. And I do believe that CSS still has the edge over the rest of the bunch when it comes to legato. Having said that, I do respect the members that still struggles with the legato delay. 
I always look into new libraries and love Thompson and his emotional presentations of a new products hitting the shelf. But I have to face the reality and return to the hard work of breaking trough the block, without new sparkly offers from this lovely industry

Best to you all, stay safe

MOMA
Stockholm, Sweden


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## cedricm

Would you say this library is a boon for beginners?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

muziksculp said:


>



Hmmm, not sure I like this demo (the actual piece is beautiful), the transitions have that classic “whom whom” between notes that I really hate. Maybe it’s a programming issue, I don’t know.


----------



## MA-Simon

cedricm said:


> Would you say this library is a boon for beginners?


No. Way to limited.


----------



## robgb

Lars Hogendoorn said:


> What do you all make of that ‘noise floor’ thing.


I think if you're writing for other composers and looking for "realism," then it's probably a good thing. If you're writing for a director, producer or the general public, chances are good they won't know the difference unless they have the uncanny ability to spot fakery...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cedricm said:


> Would you say this library is a boon for beginners?


I’d say it’s more geared towards users who already own a good bread & butter string library(s) that are looking to add some additional tools to their pallet.


----------



## MA-Simon

I like the noice floor feature. I think it is great!


----------



## muziksculp

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Hmmm, not sure I like this demo (the actual piece is beautiful), the transitions have that classic “whom whom” between notes that I really hate. Maybe it’s a programming issue, I don’t know.


Yeah.. I know what you mean. It's most likely programming. 

I'm guessing he is still very new to the library, and didn't have much time working with it.


----------



## Jax

Got it and played around with it a bit— it sounds absolutely fantastic. Nice that they finally addressed a lingering critique!

I wish it had some dedicated runs features, but I’m sure those are reserved for Spitfire _Allegro Strings _(coming Q3 2022)…


----------



## ummon

Scamper said:


> Is it worth it, if you have SCS or SSS? You decide...


Thanks! What a bunch of great sounding string libraries! As I'm in the camp of 'legato is overrated', I'm perfectly happy with SSS.


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> Yeah.. I know what you mean. It's most likely programming.
> 
> I'm guessing he is still very new to the library, and didn't have much time working with it.


The library has a great sound and it takes to legato shapes that my other libraries don't handle all that well. But if I'm honest, I'm not finding it the easiest library to program, and it's taking some adjustments from usual habits. I'm also not completely sure I yet have a handle on all the functionality of the library. 

The releases, or lack thereof even when release is turned all the way up, are also driving me a bit nuts. Why do you record in Air and then depend on an external reverb to finish the note? Maybe there's a setting I missed.


----------



## Flyo

jbuhler said:


> The library has a great sound and it takes to legato shapes that my other libraries don't handle all that well. But if I'm honest, I'm not finding it the easiest library to program, and it's taking some adjustments from usual habits. I'm also not completely sure I yet have a handle on all the functionality of the library.
> 
> The releases, or lack thereof even when release is turned all the way up, are also driving me a bit nuts. Why do you record in Air and then depend on an external reverb to finish the note? Maybe there's a setting I missed.


There is no natural releases are of the samples recorded on air studios??


----------



## ism

jbuhler said:


> The releases, or lack thereof even when release is turned all the way up, are also driving me a bit nuts. Why do you record in Air and then depend on an external reverb to finish the note? Maybe there's a setting I missed.


Is there any difference between the legato and sustains releases?

I know this is something that drives me crazy about SStS and Tundra - you can crank up the release on the sustains, and even in the dry SStS, this works to very good effect. But there's no option to do this in the legato, which leaves your lines just kind of ... ending. And unnecessarily, it would seem to me. You can work around it, but it's still a niggle.


----------



## Flyo

If there is no natural releases on legatos scripting is an insta no buy for me


----------



## MA-Simon

Flyo said:


> If there is no natural releases on legatos scripting is an insta no buy for me


There are, but they are so short. CSS does this better because you can lengthen releases until they blend musically.


----------



## doctoremmet

ism said:


> But there's no option to do this in the legato, which leaves your lines just kind of ... ending.


Is this what causes the phenomenon that is commonly referred to as the sucking effect?


----------



## easyrider

Does this do multichannel out?


----------



## ism

doctoremmet said:


> Is this what causes the phenomenon that is commonly referred to as the sucking effect?


I think the sucking effect is more about the lead into legato transitions when the line hasn't been shaped in a way that the legato accommodates. 

This (and you can read all about it in my upcoming "The Decrescendo Manifesto") strikes me more as the industry wide effect of us all focusing so single mindedly on legato that the fabulousness of the humble decrescendo has criminally neglected!


----------



## Karma

Flyo said:


> If there is no natural releases on legatos scripting is an insta no buy for me


Ha I feel like it'd be a sin to record at AIR and not have natural releases, so yes, they're definitely in there!

The release slider works as follows:

0-50% adjusts the volume of the release, dial this back if you want to dry the sound up. 50-100% does not change the volume, but instead increases how much release you're hearing.

50% is set at the moment the bow leaves the string, whereas 100% is 150ms prior to that, which is actually pretty significant. At this point if we bring it back further you're really just getting more "pre-note", which I feel has somewhat diminishing returns.

And yes, of course the release slider works on the legatos!


----------



## mussnig

ism said:


> Is there any difference between the legato and sustains releases?
> 
> I know this is something that drives me crazy about SStS and Tundra - you can crank up the release on the sustains, and even in the dry SStS, this works to very good effect. But there's no option to do this in the legato, which leaves your lines just kind of ... ending. And unnecessarily, it would seem to me. You can work around it, but it's still a niggle.


Same with BBCSO. I even asked support about this but they told me it was a deliberate choice and that I shouldn't use legato all the time. Was a bit disappointed to hear that because I was really shaping some legato line and then had to either skip the last transition in order to switch to a usual sustain or do some crossfading trickery (or completely rely on external reverb).


----------



## RogiervG

muziksculp said:


>



For a short as the lib is out.. this is quite good (many parts sound authentic, if you close your eyes.. however there is some strong attacks here and there that develop in sucking effect.. but i bet if the programming of cc data and some skewing of midi notes in tempo, doing some legato offset/release changes and perhaps some hairpain articulations is applied properly, it would be very very close to a real string ensemble playing)


----------



## Maxfabian

muziksculp said:


>



Beautiful music!! Bravo!!


----------



## muziksculp

Maxfabian said:


> Beautiful music!! Bravo!!


It's not my music. I just posted it.  

You can add a comment on his YouTube Channel. Which I subscribe to.


----------



## akak

Could someone compare it to VSL Elite/Pro Strings performance legato?


----------



## Baronvonheadless

View attachment Harry Melody.mp3


New mock up with SAS!


----------



## filipjonathan

Baronvonheadless said:


> View attachment Harry Melody.mp3
> 
> 
> New mock up with SAS!


Hm. Not really liking it here.


----------



## MA-Simon

Baronvonheadless said:


> View attachment Harry Melody.mp3
> 
> 
> New mock up with SAS!


Nice, but the sucking is way to evident. Just feels unmusical. Not your fault thought. It's the library programming.


----------



## Henu

Baronvonheadless said:


> New mock up with SAS!


At 0:22 there are some weird resonances which appear again at 0:31 again with the same note. I suspect that those have to be due to being a part of the sample?


----------



## jbuhler

Flyo said:


> There is no natural releases are of the samples recorded on air studios??


There is a some natural release, but even at its longest extent, it shuts down sooner than I'd like and sooner than SF's earlier Air libraries.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

jbuhler said:


> There is a some natural release, but even at its longest extent, it shuts down sooner than I'd like and sooner than SF's earlier Air libraries.


Which mics are you trying? The outriggers might be a good option from my testing.


----------



## MA-Simon

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Which mics are you trying? The outriggers might be a good option from my testing.


Imho that should not matter. But if you mention mics. Frustratingly and unusable so, close mics are still mono. I hate it.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

MA-Simon said:


> Imho that should not matter. But if you mention mics. Frustratingly and unusable so, close mics are still mono. I hate it.


A close mic vs a mic placed further away that captures more of the room will have different release tails, no?


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> Is there any difference between the legato and sustains releases?
> 
> I know this is something that drives me crazy about SStS and Tundra - you can crank up the release on the sustains, and even in the dry SStS, this works to very good effect. But there's no option to do this in the legato, which leaves your lines just kind of ... ending. And unnecessarily, it would seem to me. You can work around it, but it's still a niggle.


Not really much difference as far as I can hear, and there is considerably more release sample at higher dynamic layers, as you would expect. But anything below mf just sort dies with note off, no matter where you have the release set. That's a slight exaggeration. There is something ringing out, but it's less than I expect and less than what's in other SF libraries. It's something I noticed already on the teaser videos, the final note of a phrase simply stopping rather than sounding into the hall on note off. You can use the medium hair pin as a final, but that note is quite short.


----------



## MA-Simon

ALittleNightMusic said:


> A close mic vs a mic placed further away that captures more of the room will have different release tails, no?


... but this is about lenght. A tail is just the hall release noise. But that is never the problem. It is about the fade-out time of the sustain sample. It needs to be adjustable and be about 300% longer to be musical.


----------



## easyrider

Baronvonheadless said:


> View attachment Harry Melody.mp3
> 
> 
> New mock up with SAS!



That’s not played in is it? It’s not musical at all it’s sounds robotic.


----------



## jbuhler

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Which mics are you trying? The outriggers might be a good option from my testing.


I was testing with mix 1, and it's true that other mics and mixes have more release to them.

ETA: while the other mixes and mics have more release to them, I still would not classify the releases as robust, considering that I have them all the way up.


----------



## jbuhler

MA-Simon said:


> ... but this is about lenght. A tail is just the hall release noise. But that is never the problem. It is about the fade-out time of the sustain sample. It needs to be adjustable and be about 300% longer to be musical.


I think it works fine as configured if you pass the signal to an external reverb, which most people I think do, but it's not ideal if you want to work only with the mic signals.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Haha damn y’all. Ok then. It is played in. My timing might be a little off I guess. Played with no click. 

Rough day for me.


----------



## RogiervG

MA-Simon said:


> Nice, but the sucking is way to evident. Just feels unmusical. Not your fault thought. It's the library programming.


or the wrong parameters used in this example.. e.g. offset setting, release setting, etc..


----------



## MA-Simon

Baronvonheadless said:


> Rough day for me.


You did good.  In my opinion it is just the librarie, which did not connect properly. Your mockup is fine!


----------



## Baronvonheadless

I didn’t touch the offset or release. Just used the outriggers and mid mics and played it live with the mod wheel very low and then built it up louder for the repeated part/ ending because the walkthrough specified not needing much mod wheel work in this library.


----------



## Jotto

250€ for legato strings only? Makes me wonder how much the whole orchestra would cost.


----------



## Evans

Jotto said:


> 250€ for legato strings only? Makes me wonder how much the whole orchestra would cost.


Seems about right. For comparison, Performance Samples Vista is $339 USD out of sale and Musical Sampling Soaring Strings is $249 USD out of sale.

And as an owner of other Spitfire Audio strings products, my price was $161.85 USD.


----------



## RogiervG

Jotto said:


> 250€ for legato strings only? Makes me wonder how much the whole orchestra would cost.


If there is going to be an appassionata orchestra at all  i highly doubt that.


----------



## chapbot

Keep those demos coming! The more I hear the less I like 😂


----------



## tcb

I am not a native English speaker but I think here should be "Can"


----------



## Igorianych

Scamper said:


> I tried the library now. Here's just a quick demo for a short legato comparison with SCS, SSS, BBCSO, CSS and Vista.
> 
> Compared to SCS and SSS, I think the legato is much better and it's very playable and emotive. Despite the 5 dynamic layers, it doesn't have quite the dynamic range of SCS/SSS though and doesn't really get into FF. CSS and Vista might have still better legatos for me, but overall, they're all somewhat different beasts with their own feel.
> 
> Is it worth it, if you have SCS or SSS? You decide...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later, I'll finish and post my integration demo with SCS and SSS.





Of course, I apologize, but Cinematic Studio Strings sound most realistic and musical...
While the others are good too.
There is some strange liveliness in the CSS... I don't know...


----------



## RogiervG

Igorianych said:


> Of course, I apologize, but Cinematic Studio Strings sound most realistic and musical...
> While the others are good too.
> There is some strange liveliness in the CSS... I don't know...


you're forgiven (blind listening is harder when you are used to a certain vi sound) *j/k*

CSS is good though, but it has a very distinct legato (most suitable for romantic era phrasing)
SAS is more for the expressive (not romantic per se) type of legato.
There are quite a few ways to do legato's on strings, all sounding different in the end (but still it's legato nonetheless). I used to like CSS for that romantic legato (molto vibrato slurred legato type), however these days.. i am not so much anymore (i like a bit more tamed down legato playing, or a bit more neutral, yet expressive: by the sound of it, SAS delivers that quite well)..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

easyrider said:


> That’s not played in is it? It’s not musical at all it’s sounds robotic.


I was thinking the same thing…almost sounds like a weird pipe organ.


----------



## muziksculp

Igorianych said:


> I apologize, but Cinematic Studio Strings sound most realistic and musical..


No, not to my ears, it sounds the least defined, almost like a pad.

SAS sounds the best to me.

The BBCSO in the second round of demos has a lot of sucking happening, I'm sure it's the programming (not the library).


----------



## borisb2

Jotto said:


> 250€ for legato strings only? Makes me wonder how much the whole orchestra would cost.


260.-


----------



## Paul Cardon

MA-Simon said:


> ... but this is about lenght. A tail is just the hall release noise. But that is never the problem. It is about the fade-out time of the sustain sample. It needs to be adjustable and be about 300% longer to be musical.


I think there's a misunderstanding here about programming vs. recorded performance. Spitfire's libraries generally always use real releases, but the releases are standard note offs, so if you're up at 100 on CC1 and you release a note, those players are stopping and you get the real sustain end recording, and depending on what you're trying to write, that release might be rather quick. If you go behind the wrench in any longs patch on any Spitfire Kontakt library, you'll see they're using real releases sample from the sustains sampled from the corresponding dynamic layer you're at, and the release slider just shifts the start point of that release. (Although worth noting that in some Spitfire libraries, release slider down all the way switches over to releases sourced from shorts, not sustains, just depends on the library) Pretty damn sure that SAS works the same. Even when you shift the enter point of the release farther back into the sourced sustain note, you still get a short but totally real release, just delayed a little longer. Again, programming vs. recorded performance.

Some string libraries, like CSS with legato turned off and its release turned up, don't use real releases for the majority of their release curve. Some libraries can get away with this, i.e. CSS in its small room.

@Baronvonheadless Part of what I think you're running into and what @MA-Simon is wanting from you is that your note endings should be a bit more... "morendo", a smoother sort of hairpin at the end of notes. SAS has 5 dynamic layers, so I really encourage you to create those yourself. Ride down the dynamics CC at the end of a line instead of holding it up and letting off the key at a higher volume. The best part about this is that you have full control over the shape of your dynamics. Libraries that cheat it by milking the release times of the main sustain loop rob you of some flexibility, or even worse, libraries that record long "morendo" style releases rob the users AND the programmers of flexibility.

EDIT: Oh, speak of the devil, just check out @Karma 's video below.


----------



## lumcas

Polyphonic legato?


----------



## Karma

The above discussion re: releases is pretty interesting, so I thought I'd clarify a fair bit by just making a video. I'm not showing anything here that is considered "secret sauce" (anyone can look under the hood at a Longs patch), it's fairly standard. But hopefully it helps to explain what the release slider is doing from 50-100% in Appassionata:


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

This thread ain’t called “Release Thread” for nothing, eh!


----------



## jbuhler

Paul Cardon said:


> There's a misunderstanding here about programming vs. recorded performance. Spitfire's libraries generally always use real releases, but the releases are standard note offs, so if you're up at 100 on CC1 and you release a note, those players are stopping and you get the real sustain end recording, and depending on what you're trying to write, that release might be rather quick. If you go behind the wrench in any longs patch on any Spitfire Kontakt library, you'll see they're using real releases sample from the sustains sampled from the corresponding dynamic layer with respect to your dynamics position, and the release slider just shifts the start point of that release. Pretty damn sure that SAS works the same. Even when you shift the enter point of the release farther back into the note, you still get a short but totally real release. Again, programming vs. recorded performance.


Except the release isn't working the same way that it does in SCS, SSS, HZS, or even AROOF, which has a shorter release, but not so short as SAS.


----------



## daan1412

It's a great sounding library, congrats to Spitfire. The introductory price tag is also pretty nice. But having CSS and BBCSO (and HS, which I'm not really using) I feel pretty well-covered. I also want to learn more about Pacific and AI's upcoming library before I buy my next strings. Not to mention AR modular, which I'm going to get 100%...


----------



## jbuhler

Karma said:


> The above discussion re: releases is pretty interesting, so I thought I'd clarify a fair bit by just making a video. I'm not showing anything here that is considered "secret sauce" (anyone can look under the hood at a Longs patch), it's fairly standard. But hopefully it helps to explain what the release slider is doing from 50-100% in Appassionata:



Thanks for making and posting this!


----------



## Casiquire

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I'm thinking an 80 GB sample library for legato strings only has got to have RR legatos. Either that or it has way too many mic options.


At this point gigs are meaningless. There seems to be only a very foggy correlation between gigs and content


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> At this point gigs are meaningless. There seems to be only a very foggy correlation between gigs and content


Mixes, and Mic Options. Not the core musical sample content.


----------



## lettucehat

I think this is the first time a library has matched the realism and quality of CSS and Performance Samples legato without being as overtly romantic. I think a lot of just-ok legatos have been defended with the "not every library is trying to be CSS" thing but this actually gets it right while having a different character from CSS/Vista/Con Moto. Also think the price is totally fair, list price as always should be considered meaningless. When its 40% off it's a no-brainer for owners of either Air string library. And I would hope some sort of ongoing discount emerges, but either way.


----------



## StillLife

Baronvonheadless said:


> Haha damn y’all. Ok then. It is played in. My timing might be a little off I guess. Played with no click.
> 
> Rough day for me.


Just remember your demo’s for AR2. Brilliant!


----------



## tack

Karma said:


> But hopefully it helps to explain what the release slider is doing from 50-100% in Appassionata


The tooltip in Appassionata says that the release dial affects volume, not duration. From your video I'm guessing that's an inaccuracy, and it actually is affecting the duration of the release sample? (I suppose this is self evident: adjusting the _volume_ of the release would be quite wonky. But the tooltip did initially confuse me.)


----------



## Karma

tack said:


> The tooltip in Appassionata says that the release dial affects volume, not duration. From your video I'm guessing that's an inaccuracy, and it actually is affecting the duration of the release sample?


It does affect the volume from 0-50%, but 50-100% is where it changes how much release you're hearing. I'll let the guys know about the information box!


----------



## Martin S

tack said:


> The tooltip in Appassionata says that the release dial affects volume, not duration. From your video I'm guessing that's an inaccuracy, and it actually is affecting the duration of the release sample?


I think it’s only volume that is affected in the 0-50 % range


----------



## liquidlino

Karma said:


> The above discussion re: releases is pretty interesting, so I thought I'd clarify a fair bit by just making a video. I'm not showing anything here that is considered "secret sauce" (anyone can look under the hood at a Longs patch), it's fairly standard. But hopefully it helps to explain what the release slider is doing from 50-100% in Appassionata:



Thanks for taking the time to make this - makes a lot of sense. One thought I have, is could a slider (in KOntakt or SF Player) control the "speed" of the sample for the release - sounds like people want unnaturally long releases, and not have to use reverb to do it, so perhaps a speed slider, that changed the time machine length of the release sample might work? Has that been tried? What was the outcome? Straight away I'm thinking not just the string sound, but also the room sound would get stretched, and this might sound very strange indeed...


----------



## Karma

liquidlino said:


> Thanks for taking the time to make this - makes a lot of sense. One thought I have, is could a slider (in KOntakt or SF Player) control the "speed" of the sample for the release - sounds like people want unnaturally long releases, and not have to use reverb to do it, so perhaps a speed slider, that changed the time machine length of the release sample might work? Has that been tried? What was the outcome? Straight away I'm thinking not just the string sound, but also the room sound would get stretched, and this might sound very strange indeed...


Yeah, it's an interesting idea but I feel we're very much in the boat of keeping things true to the space!

As soon as you start time stretching things it can introduce all sorts of artifacts, and I can only imagine that being a bit more drastic during a decaying note


----------



## soulofsound

lettucehat said:


> I think this is the first time a library has matched the realism and quality of CSS and Performance Samples legato without being as overtly romantic. I think a lot of just-ok legatos have been defended with the "not every library is trying to be CSS" thing but this actually gets it right while having a different character from CSS/Vista/Con Moto. Also think the price is totally fair, list price as always should be considered meaningless. When its 40% off it's a no-brainer for owners of either Air string library. And I would hope some sort of ongoing discount emerges, but either way.


Yes lovely sound. It also sounds richter than CSS or Con Moto. SF did a great job here.


----------



## jbuhler

Karma said:


> The above discussion re: releases is pretty interesting, so I thought I'd clarify a fair bit by just making a video. I'm not showing anything here that is considered "secret sauce" (anyone can look under the hood at a Longs patch), it's fairly standard. But hopefully it helps to explain what the release slider is doing from 50-100% in Appassionata:



That's very helpful explanation. I'm still not sure why the behavior feels so different compared to the other SF libraries I have (where I don't generally touch the releases at all) and this one. It might just be the difference itself that is confusing me, in that I'm expecting it to do something it doesn't do and it doesn't do it for good reasons having to do with the design of the instrument, and I need to adjust my workflow to the SAS behavior. I'm certainly willing to accept that my difficulties here are my user error. Also, for me the behavior only becomes an issue on notes that finish into silence (e.g., last note of a phrase), usually as I'm riding a note down in volume, and they sound like they just sort of fall of a cliff with note-off. Again, that's a bit of an exaggeration. It's not that drastic, but it's a tendency. And it makes me feel like I need an external reverb to have those finishes sound right.


----------



## Karma

jbuhler said:


> That's very helpful explanation. I'm still not sure why the behavior feels so different compared to the other SF libraries I have (where I don't generally touch the releases at all) and this one. It might just be the difference itself that is confusing me, in that I'm expecting it to do something it doesn't do and it doesn't do it for good reasons having to do with the design of the instrument, and I need to adjust my workflow to the SAS behavior. I'm certainly willing to accept that my difficulties here are my user error. Also, for me the behavior only becomes an issue on notes that finish into silence (e.g., last note of a phrase), usually as I'm riding a note down in volume, and they sound like they just sort of fall of a cliff with note-off. Again, that's a bit of an exaggeration. It's not that drastic, but it's a tendency. And it makes me feel like I need an external reverb to have those finishes sound right.


I think that as this library is so dynamic sometimes tailing off CC1 at a release point may result in that effect, though as @Paul Cardon said above in some ways that can be a good thing (depending on the desired result). Perhaps in this case see if keeping CC1 a bit more 'true' to the dynamic at the end of the phrases will help?

It's worth noting that CC1 won't change the levels/dynamic of a release after you've let go of the note, so it's always going to be that final CC1 point at the note-off that decides what release you're hearing.


----------



## soulofsound

Anyone notice Paul nearly doesn't play any of the cellos in the walkthrough? Anyone test these cellos? The small snippet sounds great, but it would be helpful to hear a little more?
And how does it hold up with ostinato phrases?


----------



## Go To 11

Inventio said:


> I think effective bow change over the same note would be a great feature for this type of library. I have a few libraries that do rebow and I see that suddenly my melodies could have repeated notes, too - that's funny to say, as a composer but you know what I mean: with sample libraries you always have something that can't be done effectively, and so you avoid that until you cannot have it right (if you don't record with live musicians).


Almost every melody I write has repeated notes! So for me it’s a must. Sad it isn’t included in this legato specific library. I think they could script it into an update though as they have the rebow samples…?


----------



## blaggins

Any tutorials out about the ways in which the "glancing attack" articulation can be best utilized to create realistic lines? Paul mentioned this is what it was for in his walkthrough but then didn't really show what they had intended with the glancing attack in an example. Is it really just a generic short to connect some longer notes together as part of a melody line ("a passionate"
short, if you will)?


----------



## EricValette

I"m currently working on a mockup of the main theme of Star Wars inspired by the work of Blakus and it seems that AS is a very good complement for the CSS/SCS, and more generally, fits well in a template mainly based around the Performance Samples and SF libraries.

AS complete CSS and SCS here between 00:27 and 00:48.

The programming will have to be refined a bit as the learning curve progresses for AS, but I find it already rather promising... congratulations Spitfire Audio for this very useful and inspiring tool!




edit - modified mix + altered volume balance between string sections


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Paul Cardon said:


> I think there's a misunderstanding here about programming vs. recorded performance. Spitfire's libraries generally always use real releases, but the releases are standard note offs, so if you're up at 100 on CC1 and you release a note, those players are stopping and you get the real sustain end recording, and depending on what you're trying to write, that release might be rather quick. If you go behind the wrench in any longs patch on any Spitfire Kontakt library, you'll see they're using real releases sample from the sustains sampled from the corresponding dynamic layer you're at, and the release slider just shifts the start point of that release. (Although worth noting that in some Spitfire libraries, release slider down all the way switches over to releases sourced from shorts, not sustains, just depends on the library) Pretty damn sure that SAS works the same. Even when you shift the enter point of the release farther back into the sourced sustain note, you still get a short but totally real release, just delayed a little longer. Again, programming vs. recorded performance.
> 
> Some string libraries, like CSS with legato turned off and its release turned up, don't use real releases for the majority of their release curve. Some libraries can get away with this, i.e. CSS in its small room.
> 
> @Baronvonheadless Part of what I think you're running into and what @MA-Simon is wanting from you is that your note endings should be a bit more... "morendo", a smoother sort of hairpin at the end of notes. SAS has 5 dynamic layers, so I really encourage you to create those yourself. Ride down the dynamics CC at the end of a line instead of holding it up and letting off the key at a higher volume. The best part about this is that you have full control over the shape of your dynamics. Libraries that cheat it by milking the release times of the main sustain loop rob you of some flexibility, or even worse, libraries that record long "morendo" style releases rob the users AND the programmers of flexibility.
> 
> EDIT: Oh, speak of the devil, just check out @Karma 's video below.


Good points here. So I haven't watched the walkthrough since before I got the library but that's the way I usually use spitfire libraries, riding the mod and expression wheels, but I thought Paul was saying this new library doesn't require such finessing so I find it weird that everyone disliked the lack of finessing haha! So business as usual still then?


----------



## muziksculp

OH no, not again. One More Star Wars demo, and I will


----------



## Go To 11

Has anyone asked yet whether this next gen legato style is the way they have approached Abbey Road modular across strings, woods and brass? If that were true, wowee.


----------



## Paul Cardon

Baronvonheadless said:


> Good points here. So I haven't watched the walkthrough since before I got the library but that's the way I usually use spitfire libraries, riding the mod and expression wheels, but I thought Paul was saying this new library doesn't require such finessing so I find it weird that everyone disliked the lack of finessing haha! So business as usual still then?


Well of course! Use those ears and play your instruments. I think it's maybe better to say that this library doesn't require as much finessing to mask funky legato problems/humps and dips in note transitions, but commanding the dynamics to do what sounds best is gonna be a given with any library, regardless of legitimate issues.


----------



## muziksculp

ka00 said:


> Or imagine if every new Spitfire library had legato patches like this?!


Why not.

I wonder if this new legato Technique is also easier to implement than the traditional legato transitions they have been accustom to use in their libraries ?


----------



## Scamper

RogiervG said:


> However i am wondering about a comparison between lyrical phrases (with counterpoint), instead of chords playing a progression..
> I have these libs (SCS, SSS, SAS and BBC core and CSS, not vista).. but still need to download SAS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if you would do a comparison... i give you a big thank you


Yeah, a demo with more freeflowing legato would be better than just moving chords. I've planned to do this after the SCS/SSS integration demo. Will do this tomorrow with alle the same libraries.



Brasart said:


> As for SAS, it has a unique tenderness and feeling of being "alive" that shines in your comparison, really like it and glad I've bought it


Right, next to the legato itself, that's one of the best things about those "legato libraries" CSS, Vista and SAS. They really feel alive and it lifts the emotional impact on another level.



Marco_D said:


> Thanks. What I find surprising, especially in the second demo, is how well CSS does dynamics. Super soft whispery attack, smoothly rising to F/FF. I was thinking SAS would have the upper hand in that regard, given the 5 dynamic layers... Is this just the way it is, or is it the programming, do you think?


Totally, CSS is super smooth in every way and the slow and soft legato transitions help even more.
I'm not totally sure why it's that good, but I think the main part is in the way the samples are performed and what dynamics are chosen for each layer. The attacks are softer than SAS, the quietest dynamic layer is softer than SAS.
I've also expected a bit more of the 5 dynamic layers, but well. Still great.


----------



## jbuhler

tpoots said:


> Any tutorials out about the ways in which the "glancing attack" articulation can be best utilized to create realistic lines? Paul mentioned this is what it was for in his walkthrough but then didn't really show what they had intended with the glancng attack in an example. Is it really just a generic short to connect some longer notes together as part of a melody line ("a passionate"
> short, if you will)?


I take the glancing attack to be a kind of staccato, the hairpin short to be akin to what OT calls a short portato and the hairpin long to be the portato long.

Here's some short and medium hairpins mixed with glancing attacks for cello.

View attachment SAS Noodle 5 (cello shorts).mp3


Not the most colorful shorts ever, but not unusable. And some glancing attacks used for an ostinato for low strings. Short and medium hairpins used for longer notes/different color. Different tempos, ostinato is in eighth notes. 112, 130, 144, 160, 180. It gets machine-gunny at the faster tempos, likely because it's only four RRs, maybe because I'm not changing velocity enough to be triggering different dynamic layers. But also because fast ostinato repetitions isn't really what the library is designed to do.

View attachment SAS Noodle 6 (low ostinato shorts) No Reverb.mp3


----------



## Vik

Scamper said:


>



Thanks for taking time to make such comparisons, Scamper. Are you using the transpose trick or in other ways layering stuff in SCS, or reverb? Or is it just the arrangement itself which causes that full sound?


----------



## Raphioli

Scamper said:


> Right, next to the legato itself, that's one of the best things about those "legato libraries" CSS, Vista and SAS. They really feel alive and it lifts the emotional impact on another level.


I really agree with this.

I see some people comparing these libraries, but I *personally *feel that at least with this library,
Spitfire nailed it and feel like they're now up there with Cinematic Studios and Performance Samples.
And I'm a person who has been saying that "legatos aren't Spitfires strength" multiple times in the past.
When it came to legatos, CSS or PS was my go-to, but now I can add SAS.
They are all special in their own way and are competitive regarding legato and having that performance baked in and sounding "alive" (not sounding static), so I have an additional library I can choose from when it comes to legato.

This library really wants to make me look forward to their AR modular series.


----------



## Peter Satera

I really like what I've been hearing so far by playing. I cant agree more with Paul that this just blends with other libs without issue.


----------



## Scamper

Vik said:


> Thanks for taking time to make such comparisons, Scamper. Are you using the transpose trick or in other ways layering stuff in SCS, or reverb? Or is it just the arrangement itself which causes that full sound?


Gladly. Except for some minimal louder high strings, this is pretty much SCS out of the box with CT mics and no layering or reverb. There's also no divisi, so the voicings certainly help to make it sound fuller.


----------



## MA-Simon

Karma said:


> The above discussion re: releases is pretty interesting, so I thought I'd clarify a fair bit by just making a video. I'm not showing anything here that is considered "secret sauce" (anyone can look under the hood at a Longs patch), it's fairly standard. But hopefully it helps to explain what the release slider is doing from 50-100% in Appassionata:



Thank you, this does help a lot. Funnily in your video you can see clearly why unlocked libraries are such a boon. I could edit this stuff in seconds to my liking, like in your video. Not so much with the spitfire player or with locked libraries like Albion Solstice.
For me the attack has to much of a curve and the releases are to short at max setting to connect properly. That may not be how strings behave realistically, but it shure makes things easier when writing flowing underscore lines. We are talking about virtual strings here. My scores will never get printed. I am not writing for live strings. I am playing things in live. The line I play will not get edited.

*I don't want to give the wrong impression here, I really do like the library*. The samples are fantastic, the new legato direction is good. But the controls feel limiting. It feels frustrating when these controls are removed and you only get the choice to do it one way. I hope you understand that. I like the round robin attacks, but they do feel out of place if the legato samples are not also round robin. The Kontakt player had the option to choose neighboring samples to make these more varied.

+ If it is that easy to lenghten the releases then why not make that slider about 2-300% ?  That would be super cool. We are talking about *virtual* libraries here. They do not have to behave like live strings. They only have to be playable.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

So one thing, I wonder why they switched this.

In BBCSO port is triggered by softly touching the keys, regular legato by slightly harder dynamics.

The ports in this new library are triggered by hitting the keys harder, and also you have to slam them. It doesn't make sense from a tactile sense does it? 

Thoughts?


----------



## MA-Simon

Baronvonheadless said:


> Thoughts?


Slurred has it's own articulation. With no options to edit these triggers (Maybe there are, I am new to the spitfire player) I don't understand why bowed does not have it's own articulation also. In my opinion bowing is played more often then slurred.


----------



## jazzman7

I've been playing with Vista (CL & DECCA) and SAS (Ribbon & 50% Tree) Cellos. Layering them together yielded some nice results to my ear. Putting Vista out front gave me a warmer, fuller, enhanced VISTA. With SAS out front, I got a more Emotional SAS. Very unscientific, and I recognize that this could blur the transitions, but overall, I felt like there were some interesting possibilities. I might post them later


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Baronvonheadless said:


> So one thing, I wonder why they switched this.
> 
> In BBCSO port is triggered by softly touching the keys, regular legato by slightly harder dynamics.
> 
> The ports in this new library are triggered by hitting the keys harder, and also you have to slam them. It doesn't make sense from a tactile sense does it?
> 
> Thoughts?


In the player you can adjust velocity response. Can you invert it too? So it will work as in BBCSO.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Baronvonheadless said:


> So one thing, I wonder why they switched this.
> 
> In BBCSO port is triggered by softly touching the keys, regular legato by slightly harder dynamics.
> 
> The ports in this new library are triggered by hitting the keys harder, and also you have to slam them. It doesn't make sense from a tactile sense does it?
> 
> Thoughts?



It felt unintuitive to me at first, too, based on how other libraries work.

But it's to do with the style of how they're played, being only available at fortissimo and at larger interval jumps - more like a "quick slide" than what other libraries regard as a "portamento", which is typically much slower and available at lower dynamics and smaller intervals.

So ideally, you should already be playing at the top of the dynamic range and in a "push it to the next level!!" state of mind when you want those slides.
If you think of a conductor in this situation, they're not going to be gesturing something small or soft in order to get an appassionata slide.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Jdiggity1 said:


> It felt unintuitive to me at first, too, based on how other libraries work.
> 
> But it's to do with the style of how they're played, being only available at fortissimo and at larger interval jumps - more like a "quick slide" than what other libraries regard as a "portamento", which is typically much slower and available at lower dynamics and smaller intervals.
> 
> So ideally, you should already be playing at the top of the dynamic range and in a "push it to the next level!!" state of mind when you want those slides.
> If you think of a conductor in this situation, they're not going to be gesturing something small or soft in order to get an appassionata slide.


That's true, I forgot he does cite rachmaninoff or maybe the manual did...makes sense.

I'll just imagine my mother talking with her hands with great passion when I'm going for it haha


----------



## jbuhler

Baronvonheadless said:


> So one thing, I wonder why they switched this.
> 
> In BBCSO port is triggered by softly touching the keys, regular legato by slightly harder dynamics.
> 
> The ports in this new library are triggered by hitting the keys harder, and also you have to slam them. It doesn't make sense from a tactile sense does it?
> 
> Thoughts?


Port is restricted to E string on violin and, I believe, the highest dynamic layer. So under those circumstances it makes sense, I suppose, for it to be triggered by high velocity. Except if I was reading the manual right detache is also triggered by high velocities so not sure how that all is supposed to work.

ETA: Also what @Jdiggity1 said.


----------



## Futchibon

Zanshin said:


> My quick honeymoon review: Fantastic! Spitfire nailed it with this release, the strings feel alive under my fingers. I love how you can play spirited detache (with fast strong attacks - unusual for SF) and then go right into legato. The mixes and mics are all great and useful. I think this a is a must have if you are invested in Air at all, and a worthy contender if you are not.


Looks like I'll have to get it then!


Zanshin said:


> People love CSS but I can't get past the musty armpit of a room.


LOL, I think we need a full 'Zanshin vst description index'. So far:

CSS - mushy armpit of a room
MSS - milktoast
Genesis - Pedo choir


----------



## Justin L. Franks

jbuhler said:


> Port is restricted to E string on violin and, I believe, the highest dynamic layer. So under those circumstances it makes sense, I suppose, for it to be triggered by high velocity. Except if I was reading the manual right detache is also triggered by high velocities so not sure how that all is supposed to work.
> 
> ETA: Also what @Jdiggity1 said.


Detache is 100-127.

*Except:*
On the high E string on violins or high A string on cellos
*AND* mod wheel is at/very near maximum (it crossfades out as you go lower than 127, I think 100 is the minimum)
*AND* velocity is 120-127
*AND* interval is greater than a perfect 5th

Which is then the portamento/slide.


----------



## Zanshin

Futchibon said:


> Looks like I'll have to get it then!
> 
> LOL, I think we need a full 'Zanshin vst description index'. So far:
> 
> CSS - mushy armpit of a room
> MSS - milktoast
> Genesis - Pedo choir


Musty, not mushy!!! I can’t help myself haha.

I still may buy MSS at some point too, milk, toast, and all


----------



## Baronvonheadless

So what's up bastards, do I still suck with this library? Should I give up and go back to AR2 haha.
Key switched to the different short articulations to achieve that portato vibe and switched to the long hairpins on my end notes...rode the mod wheel like a wild bull too...

Mixed with Symphonic Motions as a test for the continuity of that AIR sound.

& slight BBCSO Pro pizzicatos because its a chameleon with the right mics.


View attachment SAS_Symphonic Motions Test.mp3


----------



## jbuhler

Justin L. Franks said:


> Detache is 100-127.
> 
> *Except:*
> On the high E string on violins or high A string on cellos
> *AND* mod wheel is at/very near maximum (it crossfades out as you go lower than 127, I think 100 is the minimum)
> *AND* velocity is 120-127
> *AND* interval is greater than a perfect 5th
> 
> Which is then the portamento/slide.


So if you want detache and an interval greater than P5 with modwheel at the top then you need to keep velocity between 100 and 120?


----------



## Justin L. Franks

jbuhler said:


> So if you want detache and an interval greater than P5 with modwheel at the top then you need to keep velocity between 100 and 120?


Correct.


----------



## holywilly

Here is another test of SAS of the dynamic ranges, repeated notes, and legato transition variations. 

I created my own mix which is:
Stereo Room: -7.0 dB
Close: -7.0 dB
Close Ribbon: 0 dB

And I tweak the setting (same to all sections):
Tightness: 50%
Release: 50%
Legato offset: 100ms

View attachment Appassionata_Str_2.mp3


I'm quite happy with this setting. Now porting them into my template.


----------



## liquidlino

Quick self-plug for those that have CSS and Reaper and are very jealous of the consistent legato timings in SAS, I just posted my first beta of my new CSS Reaper JSFX Legato Lookahead - BETA testers needed please!






CSS Advanced Legato Lookahead JSFX for Reaper (BETA Testers Wanted)


Hi All, v0.1 of my brand new CSS Advanced Legato Lookahead JSFX for Reaper is attached. Demonstration video below. I'm looking for people to help me beta test this and iron out kinks etc. Please don't go using this on time-critical projects just yet, as it's only been tested by me so far, and...




vi-control.net


----------



## Zanshin

holywilly said:


> Here is another test of SAS of the dynamic ranges, repeated notes, and legato transition variations.


Sounds lovely!


----------



## Inventio

Go To 11 said:


> Almost every melody I write has repeated notes! So for me it’s a must. Sad it isn’t included in this legato specific library. I think they could script it into an update though as they have the rebow samples…?


That would be a nice update. I suggested it to support while enquiring about bow change in the live chat that pops up while browsing on the website. 

I'll probably buy this soon as I have an Air Lyndhurst template but rebow would be my first feature request, too. 

I expect that this library could do well as a divisi a 2 or la metà library for SSS, too, at least if the style of legato is appropriate for the passage. 
The size of the section would fit well. 

Anyone tried it in this fashion?


----------



## Inventio

Baronvonheadless said:


> So one thing, I wonder why they switched this.
> 
> In BBCSO port is triggered by softly touching the keys, regular legato by slightly harder dynamics.
> 
> The ports in this new library are triggered by hitting the keys harder, and also you have to slam them. It doesn't make sense from a tactile sense does it?
> 
> Thoughts?


I noticed that too and thought that it goes against a kind of standard for string libraries since LASS. Even SWAM or SM strings are mapped like that. 

I wonder if this will be harder to assimilate into our performing, for those who like to play and record lines live.


----------



## Inventio

Jdiggity1 said:


> It felt unintuitive to me at first, too, based on how other libraries work.
> 
> But it's to do with the style of how they're played, being only available at fortissimo and at larger interval jumps - more like a "quick slide" than what other libraries regard as a "portamento", which is typically much slower and available at lower dynamics and smaller intervals.
> 
> So ideally, you should already be playing at the top of the dynamic range and in a "push it to the next level!!" state of mind when you want those slides.
> If you think of a conductor in this situation, they're not going to be gesturing something small or soft in order to get an appassionata slide.


Now I see it, it makes sense, thanks.


----------



## Harry

How does Appassionata compare to Spitfire Solo Strings?


----------



## Akarin

Harry said:


> How does Appassionata compare to Spitfire Solo Strings?



Appassionata has 7 more first violins than Solo Strings.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Akarin said:


> Appassionata has 7 more first violins than Solo Strings.


How many more than Berlin Woodwinds, please ?


----------



## Akarin

Emmanuel Rousseau said:


> How many more than Berlin Woodwinds, please ?



Blue. Nearly purple, depending how you look at it.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Akarin said:


> Blue. Nearly purple, depending how you look at it.


I am colorblind anyway.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

liquidlino said:


> Eight. It has eight more first violins than Berlin woodwinds. In fact, probably than any woodwinds library, unless it's a very very special library indeed.


What if they're playing flautando ?






(Sorry guys. I'm done !)


----------



## Harry

Akarin said:


> Appassionata has 7 more first violins than Solo Strings.


In legato playability ....


----------



## holywilly

I really want to see Appassionata Strings with comprehensive articulations beside the Godly legatos. The timbre is warm, lush and detailed, and the ensemble is just right.


----------



## ridgero

I don't know if this was already answered:

Are the Appasionnata Strings completely new recordings or were the old samples simply reprogrammed?

I hope they will do this with the Chamber Strings as well, that would be the bomb!


----------



## mussnig

ridgero said:


> I don't know if this was already answered:
> 
> Are the Appasionnata Strings completely new recordings or were the old samples simply reprogrammed?
> 
> I hope they will do this with the Chamber Strings as well, that would be the bomb!


Completely new recordings - otherwise it would most likely be a free update (as they have done with other libs in the past).


----------



## ridgero

@Karma 
Hey Luke

Thanks for your song "Going Home Again" - It's just brilliant, I like your classic filmscore style very much.

Would it be possible that you upload it to YouTube like you did with "Mans Best Friend"?

Thank you very much, I appreciate it very much


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

ridgero said:


> I don't know if this was already answered:
> 
> Are the Appasionnata Strings completely new recordings or were the old samples simply reprogrammed?
> 
> I hope they will do this with the Chamber Strings as well, that would be the bomb!


Paul said it‘s completely new recordings in the chat on release.


----------



## Mike Stone

Great thread, very interesting to read about this new library!

I've listened to the demos, and so far it's slow moving and soaring lines (which obviously is the library's main strength). Can this library also pull off faster and "snappy" lines, even some runs?

I'm seriously looking into buying this library, but my funds are limited. Thanks.


----------



## holywilly

Mike Stone said:


> Great thread, very interesting to read about this new library!
> 
> I've listened to the demos, and so far it's slow moving and soaring lines (which obviously is the library's main strength). Can this library also pull off faster and "snappy" lines, even some runs?
> 
> I'm seriously looking into buying this library, but my funds are limited. Thanks.


Yes, appassionata is also agile and able to do runs.


----------



## Mike Stone

holywilly said:


> Yes, appassionata is also agile and able to do runs.


Thanks for the reply. It would be great to hear a demo of this, but seems like I'm probably getting this library then.


----------



## d4vec4rter

Yet another comparison to CSS using the CSS demo midi available from their site. No processing, default settings. I like both of them as much as each other to be honest.


----------



## Mike Stone

d4vec4rter said:


> Yet another comparison to CSS using the CSS demo midi available from their site. No processing, default settings. I like both of them as much as each other to be honest.


Thanks for the demos, appreciated. I easily prefer the tone of SAS, but the CSS strings seem more agile here. Maybe CSS was the original version of the piece, then only changed the samples with SAS? There are some weird/unrealistic transitions between notes in the SAS example.


----------



## Peros

d4vec4rter said:


> Yet another comparison to CSS using the CSS demo midi available from their site. No processing, default settings. I like both of them as much as each other to be honest.


Thank you for the comparison but the mixing is not the same, CSS is mixed with better hierarchy with the main line clearer than the rest - in SAS example what is supposed to be in the back, sounds a bit too loud so the main melody isn't heard as clearly


----------



## OleJoergensen

holywilly said:


> Here is another test of SAS of the dynamic ranges, repeated notes, and legato transition variations.
> 
> I created my own mix which is:
> Stereo Room: -7.0 dB
> Close: -7.0 dB
> Close Ribbon: 0 dB
> 
> And I tweak the setting (same to all sections):
> Tightness: 50%
> Release: 50%
> Legato offset: 100ms
> 
> View attachment Appassionata_Str_2.mp3
> 
> 
> I'm quite happy with this setting. Now porting them into my template.


Wonderful!
I feel like Im in Love 🎵🎶


----------



## d4vec4rter

Peros said:


> Thank you for the comparison but the mixing is not the same, CSS is mixed with better hierarchy with the main line clearer than the rest - in SAS example what is supposed to be in the back, sounds a bit too loud so the main melody isn't heard as clearly


Yes, I agree with you but I left the levels exactly the same (faders all on 0 dB). I should have, perhaps spent more time achieving a more closer matching mix with SAS.

UPDATE: Here's the SAS demo mid with V1 level increased. Second half dynamics would need to be controlled a little more but the melody is now more apparent. Of course, alternatively, I could have reduced the levels of the other sections.


----------



## holywilly

OleJoergensen said:


> Wonderful!
> I feel like Im in Love 🎵🎶


Thanks! I had great time noodling.


----------



## Mike Stone

d4vec4rter said:


> Yes, I agree with you but I left the levels exactly the same (faders all on 0 dB). I should have, perhaps spent more time achieving a more closer matching mix with SAS.
> 
> UPDATE: Here's the SAS demo mid with V1 level increased. Second half dynamics would need to be controlled a little more but the melody is now more apparent. Of course, alternatively, I could have reduced the levels of the other sections.


Thanks, that's definitely better. Great sounding library for sure.


----------



## davidson

Has anyone had chance to A/B with soaring strings?


----------



## Gabriel S.

d4vec4rter said:


> Yes, I agree with you but I left the levels exactly the same (faders all on 0 dB). I should have, perhaps spent more time achieving a more closer matching mix with SAS.
> 
> UPDATE: Here's the SAS demo mid with V1 level increased. Second half dynamics would need to be controlled a little more but the melody is now more apparent. Of course, alternatively, I could have reduced the levels of the other sections.


Thanks for doing this!

I definitely I prefer CSS in your demo. The transitions and sustain sound more natural to me. The tone in SAS is nice though, but overall the CSS convinced me more.


----------



## RMH

d4vec4rter said:


> Yes, I agree with you but I left the levels exactly the same (faders all on 0 dB). I should have, perhaps spent more time achieving a more closer matching mix with SAS.
> 
> UPDATE: Here's the SAS demo mid with V1 level increased. Second half dynamics would need to be controlled a little more but the melody is now more apparent. Of course, alternatively, I could have reduced the levels of the other sections.


Thank you for making a good comparison.👍
Balance during(ex. mix) the each part is also important, but SAS has some mistimed parts, perhaps because midi editing is the original CSS.

If you wrote a note based on the CSS, it doesn't seem like you're moving the area and comparing it.

Basically, I think the score remains the same and some adjustment to the instrument is necessary.

So I will choose CSS in this comparison.😉
But SAS sound is good!

P.S. The song is so good. I want to compare other string instruments I have, so can I get a midi file?


----------



## Jackal_King

Harry said:


> How does Appassionata compare to Spitfire Solo Strings?


I got up extra early this morning to mess around with it on my composition that has Spitfire Violin Solo Strings in it (plus I have a bowling tournament in two hours is another reason). It goes quite nicely together even when I experimented with layering the melody track. It really brings a more defined tone to them when I did that. Legato in Appassionata is smoother and can skip down a few notes with ease unlike that weird volume jump that the violin solo and SStS sometimes do. Still messing with the mics and reverb options to get a feel of the sound that I want. Will try the outrigger mics when I get home later. Overall, I am extremely impressed with this library.


----------



## Gabriel S.

Here


RMH said:


> Thank you for making a good comparison.👍
> Balance during(ex. mix) the each part is also important, but SAS has some mistimed parts, perhaps because midi editing is the original CSS.
> 
> If you wrote a note based on the CSS, it doesn't seem like you're moving the area and comparing it.
> 
> Basically, I think the score remains the same and some adjustment to the instrument is necessary.
> 
> So I will choose CSS in this comparison.😉
> But SAS sound is good!
> 
> P.S. The song is so good. I want to compare other string instruments I have, so can I get a midi file?





Here this guy created the midi based on Appassionata and then installed the rest of the libraries. Still...I find the CSS more convincing, specially the dynamics and consistency. BUT I very much like the low mids in the Appassionata, it sounds muscular compared to CSS.

Go to the *minute 1:39* when the Violins 1 hit that C#. Why does it sound louder than the previous D# and even previous ones? The dynamics doesn't suggest that...


*Question for those who bought it:* have you experienced any consistency problems when playing with it or do you think is just an isolated case? Maybe I am too picky.


----------



## d4vec4rter

RMH said:


> Thank you for making a good comparison.👍
> Balance during(ex. mix) the each part is also important, but SAS has some mistimed parts, perhaps because midi editing is the original CSS.
> 
> If you wrote a note based on the CSS, it doesn't seem like you're moving the area and comparing it.
> 
> Basically, I think the score remains the same and some adjustment to the instrument is necessary.
> 
> So I will choose CSS in this comparison.😉
> But SAS sound is good!
> 
> P.S. The song is so good. I want to compare other string instruments I have, so can I get a midi file?


The demo midi file I used can be found on the CSS site. They have a Legato Tutorial video and you can download the midi file just beneath it.


----------



## RMH

d4vec4rter said:


> The demo midi file I used can be found on the CSS site. They have a Legato Tutorial video and you can download the midi file just beneath it.


I heard it somewhere and it was that. Thank you.😉


----------



## Stephen Baysted

Very impressed with it - legatos are superb as are the sustains. Slotted straight into my template and blends extremely well with other Spitfire string libraries.


----------



## d4vec4rter

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I haven't heard a single demo where I'd prefer SAS to CSS tbh.
> 
> It's different, more appealing on some points, but I get more emotional reaction from listening to a good piece made with CSS than with SAS.


CSS, without doubt, has a more emotional, romantic character to its tone. SAS seems, to me, more cinematic.


----------



## odod

it is almost the same as Berlin Symphonic to my ears .. awemazing with a fraction of a price


----------



## Karma

ridgero said:


> @Karma
> Hey Luke
> 
> Thanks for your song "Going Home Again" - It's just brilliant, I like your classic filmscore style very much.
> 
> Would it be possible that you upload it to YouTube like you did with "Mans Best Friend"?
> 
> Thank you very much, I appreciate it very much


Thanks a lot! A lot of Silvestri/Horner/Menken inspiration in that one 

I'm sure we'll do something at some point soon yes!


----------



## jbuhler

Gabriel S. said:


> *Question for those who bought it:* have you experienced any consistency problems when playing with it or do you think is just an isolated case? Maybe I am too picky.


Overall, the library seems very consistent but not robotically so. I haven’t had time yet to really test that though and the additional dynamic layers does mean you are hitting up against more dynamic layer boundaries, which means more places where things can go wrong. Partly because it is so dynamic I find the library harder to program right now. Hopefully that will change as I get used to its quirks. 

It’s an exaggeration to say it doesn’t require any CC attention and it still benefits from a constantly moving CC1 and 11 but it requires less than other SF libraries, and indeed the number of dynamic layers means that there is less space on the modwheel to work within a layer. Smaller moves do more. But it also plays better without any moves at all, especially at the lower dynamic layers. If I’m going I play without moving the modwheel I set it low, usually below 50. 

With the dynamic smoothing set to agile you can make very aggressive moves on the modwheel and it’s pretty smooth. But you can also find situations where a small change on the modwheel has a bigger than expected effect leaving notes sticking out. Usually that just requires reducing CC1 a bit for the offending note. And in general I find I have to reduce the modwheel rather a lot when I try to reuse midi from other libraries. That will likely be the biggest issue in managing layering with it. 

That said, so far, like BSS, it plays really well with other libraries. Which given that SAS is a legato library and so will generally be used as a supplement or require some supplementation is a necessary quality.


----------



## sundrowned

Someone was after faster cello passages. Here's a quick noodle straight out of the box with no adjustments. Played in slower without click then increased and a CC1 pass. Other than normalising the midi note lengths no midi editing (it could probably do with some) And I'm not much of a keyboard player. 

View attachment Cello1.mp4


Transposed down a few notes

View attachment Cello2.mp4


And yes there is a click between C3 and D*#*3 in the first one.


----------



## FireGS

Gabriel S. said:


> Go to the *minute 1:39* when the Violins 1 hit that C#. Why does it sound louder than the previous D# and even previous ones? The dynamics doesn't suggest that...


Because there's a really resonant fundamental in the B-C# range for both violins. I asked if anyone else heard it earlier in the thread to cricket responses.


----------



## N.Caffrey

I caved in, for £129 it was too good to pass. I know css is good, but after playing with it for 5 years I’m kind of looking forward to have a different sound as a go-to for legato


----------



## Evans

sundrowned said:


> Someone was after faster cello passages. Here's a quick noodle straight out of the box with no adjustments. Played in slower without click then increased and a CC1 pass. Other than normalising the midi note lengths no midi editing (it could probably do with some) And I'm not much of a keyboard player.


Thanks for this example. This is helpful. I've heard far worse from mid- to high-tier VIs, even after lots of adjustments.


----------



## synthnut1

I sure wish that BBCSO core had the same sense of dynamics that this library has….I could more deal with 1 mic position a lot easier when I get it…These strings have a nice tone !!


----------



## Scamper

Here are two more demos, testing SAS in combination with each SCS and SSS.
Same track for both SCS and SSS. Three times - SCS/SSS on their own, then layered with SAS and finally SAS only for the legatos.

Note - there is this small passage in the violin line (0:14) that combines legato and spiccato. For only the third variant, I'm layering the "glancing attack" shorts of SAS with the other libraries.
Also... after those spiccatos SCS/SSS can pick up very well with a harder attack by higher velocity. This doesn't work with SAS, there you have to start with a higher CC1 value and velocity doesn't seem to have any effect on attack.





Personally, I think SAS is quite lush for the size and a bit too large to work seamlessly with SCS. With SSS though, it's much closer, but SAS is still softer and lusher.


----------



## novaburst

Over on the Spitfire webpage listening to the demos from Blakus and others, also listening to Pauls walkthrough then listening to samples of the same library on this thread feels like two different library's are being used entirely, what i hear on the Spitfire webpage are very smooth legatos, agile movement, and lots of life, and a great tone,

But on this thread especially the comparison with CSS SAS sounds so out of place and messy, so what's going on is Paul and his team using a different library, is it their skill and playing style because in the tutorial Paul did not use reverb or any mic mixes until halfway through then what sounded very good sounded even better, 

Then the demos sound so good so what are they doing that this thread is not, am i missing something.

I am just being honest seems like two different library's


----------



## madfloyd

We also don't know what other libraries they used in those demos.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Is it just me or or is the download very slow?


----------



## storyteller

Gabriel S. said:


> Here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here this guy created the midi based on Appassionata and then installed the rest of the libraries. Still...I find the CSS more convincing, specially the dynamics and consistency. BUT I very much like the low mids in the Appassionata, it sounds muscular compared to CSS.
> 
> Go to the *minute 1:39* when the Violins 1 hit that C#. Why does it sound louder than the previous D# and even previous ones? The dynamics doesn't suggest that...
> 
> 
> *Question for those who bought it:* have you experienced any consistency problems when playing with it or do you think is just an isolated case? Maybe I am too picky.



and


novaburst said:


> Over on the Spitfire webpage listening to the demos from Blakus and others, also listening to Pauls walkthrough then listening to samples of the same library on this thread feels like two different library's are being used entirely, what i hear on the Spitfire webpage are very smooth legatos, agile movement, and lots of life, and a great tone,
> 
> But on this thread especially the comparison with CSS SAS sounds so out of place and messy, so what's going on is Paul and his team using a different library, is it their skill and playing style because in the tutorial Paul did not use reverb or any mic mixes until halfway through then what sounded very good sounded even better,
> 
> Then the demos sound so good so what are they doing that this thread is not, am i missing something.
> 
> I am just being honest seems like two different library's


The dynamics crossfade has 3 settings. Agile is the default but would probably not translate well for people who are posting demos of one library vs SAS or are used to performing with CC1 in a certain way. You would need to choose the relaxed dynamic setting... which seems to be the most “traditional” way dynamics have been mapped over other libraries. That is probably a big piece of it.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

novaburst said:


> Over on the Spitfire webpage listening to the demos from Blakus and others, also listening to Pauls walkthrough then listening to samples of the same library on this thread feels like two different library's are being used entirely, what i hear on the Spitfire webpage are very smooth legatos, agile movement, and lots of life, and a great tone,
> 
> But on this thread especially the comparison with CSS SAS sounds so out of place and messy, so what's going on is Paul and his team using a different library, is it their skill and playing style because in the tutorial Paul did not use reverb or any mic mixes until halfway through then what sounded very good sounded even better,
> 
> Then the demos sound so good so what are they doing that this thread is not, am i missing something.
> 
> I am just being honest seems like two different library's


Sounds like the same library to me. It’s only been out a couple of days, we need to give composers a chance to learn SAS and then you’ll hear proper demos.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> This thread ain’t called “Release Thread” for nothing, eh!


where is my airhorn?

...!


----------



## zwhita

Interested in getting this to layer with Afflatus Lush strings, since Afflatus is drier and less warm sounding. Some of it reminds me of Howard Shore's soundtracks before 1992. Seems great for more slow and somber pieces. Thus far, I'm not convinced it would be of any use for runs or quick, agile playing.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Scamper said:


> Here are two more demos, testing SAS in combination with each SCS and SSS.
> Same track for both SCS and SSS. Three times - SCS/SSS on their own, then layered with SAS and finally SAS only for the legatos.
> 
> Note - there is this small passage in the violin line (0:14) that combines legato and spiccato. For only the third variant, I'm layering the "glancing attack" shorts of SAS with the other libraries.
> Also... after those spiccatos SCS/SSS can pick up very well with a harder attack by higher velocity. This doesn't work with SAS, there you have to start with a higher CC1 value and velocity doesn't seem to have any effect on attack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I think SAS is quite lush for the size and a bit too large to work seamlessly with SCS. With SSS though, it's much closer, but SAS is still softer and lusher.



Thanks for doing this 🙂 I am on iPad right now, can’t get to desktop pc atm. But my immediate reaction is that SAS and the pizzicatos of both SCS and SSS do not go seamless together. Pizzicato in SCS sound “too small” compared to the sound of SAS, and Pizzicato in SSS sound ”too big” to match well with SAS.


----------



## Brasart

^ To be honest this sounds like quite an easy fix using different mics and some reverb


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## novaburst

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Sounds like the same library to me. It’s only been out a couple of days, we need to give composers a chance to learn SAS and then you’ll hear proper demos.


That's kind of a fair answer but maybe it may be a good idea to get to grips with it first before before its compared with a top library like CSS if that makes sense


----------



## LamaRose

Strange about all the comments regarding the releases... they sound pretty natural in Paul's walkthrough... but yes, short/funky releases are gremlins to work with.


----------



## wayne_rowley

Caved.

They sound so good!


----------



## LamaRose

novaburst said:


> Over on the Spitfire webpage listening to the demos from Blakus and others, also listening to Pauls walkthrough then listening to samples of the same library on this thread feels like two different library's are being used entirely, what i hear on the Spitfire webpage are very smooth legatos, agile movement, and lots of life, and a great tone,


Hearing the same thing.


----------



## RogiervG

again, people have the library just 2 days now (i haven't got time to really play with it yet e.g.)... it takes time to learn the library and use it as should.
Paul and Blakus had it ofcourse longer, so they know how the library works, it's pros and cons and how to to deal with certain phrasing correctly. Also do take in mind, users might unknowingly (for now), use wrong EQ or third party fx on the tracks because they got used to do that for the libs they have. But not all libraries are the same, and require the same treatment.

All in all.. just wait a bit longer.. and more high(er) quality demos will be available.
I must say, most demos posted here, are (for the short time they had their hands on the lib) quite good actually


----------



## jbuhler

novaburst said:


> That's kind of a fair answer but maybe it may be a good idea to get to grips with it first before before its compared with a top library like CSS if that makes sense


I would say it is not a simple library to program, or rather it requires learning new habits and new shapes for your CC1 and CC11 moves, and especially staying away from the top dynamic layers, particularly the top one (but even the second to top is comparatively intense) except to just touch on them, even when the music grows expansive. I don't find the library exactly plonkable in the way Paul suggests, though it is quite playable and with the lower dynamic layers especially you need much less movement of CC1 and CC11 than other SF libraries, and you can indeed sometimes almost go without moving them without the samples dying of looping sameness on you. At the same time, especially in the agile mode of the dynamic smoothing, you can make very aggressive moves with CC1 that are quite dramatic and musically effective. I'm still getting a handle on that.

Also the hairpins, situated between long shorts and short longs, offer real opportunities for crafting lyrical lines as well. (Here, I really wish that the SF Player had the capability of Sine to attach legato to other articulations.)


----------



## jazzman7

novaburst said:


> Over on the Spitfire webpage listening to the demos from Blakus and others, also listening to Pauls walkthrough then listening to samples of the same library on this thread feels like two different library's are being used entirely, what i hear on the Spitfire webpage are very smooth legatos, agile movement, and lots of life, and a great tone,
> 
> But on this thread especially the comparison with CSS SAS sounds so out of place and messy, so what's going on is Paul and his team using a different library, is it their skill and playing style because in the tutorial Paul did not use reverb or any mic mixes until halfway through then what sounded very good sounded even better,
> 
> Then the demos sound so good so what are they doing that this thread is not, am i missing something.
> 
> I am just being honest seems like two different library's


Seen some killer demos on this thread. Some of the ones that show it to bad effect are most often those that simply copy MIDI over from CSS and throw it up. Every VI has it's own personality and we all have to learn to work around the uneven spots. I love the tone, but there are a few inconsistent notes. A deal breaker? Nope. Every VI I own has issues to work around. 

My daughter has a beautiful Violin. When I show her something in the studio, I can't make it sing like she can. She has trained on her instrument and it shows.

I am expert at making a decent instrument sound bad...So I know whereof I speak!


----------



## jadedsean

labyrinths said:


> I'm not sure if this will be useful to anyone here (and there's not much to it with so few articulations), but I threw together a Reaticulate bank while adding this to my template and figured I'd share:



Hi there, i'm new to Reaticulate could you tell me how to install it?

Edit, i figured it out. Thanks for this its most helpful.


----------



## novaburst

jazzman7 said:


> Some of the ones that show it to bad effect are most often those that simply copy MIDI over from CSS and throw it up.


This.

So sorry for the rant but we do have ears if it does not sound good why post it, 

I am a little direct so sorry for that, but the user has ears


----------



## Roger Newton

May I ask how long it takes to download this library. It seems to be taklng quite a long time here. Over 10 hours.


----------



## Mike Stone

Roger Newton said:


> May I ask how long it takes to download this library. It seems to be taklng quite a long time here. Over 10 hours.


It took me about an hour here.


----------



## RogiervG

Roger Newton said:


> May I ask how long it takes to download this library. It seems to be taklng quite a long time here. Over 10 hours.


I think more and more people are downloading it concurrently.. so the upstream start to get full from the content servers perpective (they bought certain bandwidth capacity most likely)

My download yesterday was between 500 and 600 Mbps. (took me 20-ish minutes)


----------



## Banquet

RogiervG said:


> I think more and more people are downloading it concurrently.. so the upstream start to get full from the content servers perpective (they bought certain bandwidth capacity most likely)
> 
> My download yesterday was between 500 and 600 Mbps. (took me 20-ish minutes)


Holy Moly! I'm getting 7.5 Mbps and have been downloading for 13.5 hours, with an ETA of 11 hours 43 minutes to go. I'd have been quicker to order it by post!


----------



## jazzman7

Banquet said:


> Holy Moly! I'm getting 7.5 Mbps and have been downloading for 13.5 hours, with an ETA of 11 hours 43 minutes to go. I'd have been quicker to order it by post!


Something has to be wrong. Took an hour here. USA North Carolina


----------



## Roger Newton

RogiervG said:


> I think more and more people are downloading it concurrently.. so the upstream start to get full from the content servers perpective (they bought certain bandwidth capacity most likely)
> 
> My download yesterday was between 500 and 600 Mbps. (took me 20-ish minutes)


Ok thanks. Hadn't thought of that.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but I just noticed Paul has the master volume of the plugin at like 25% or lower it looks like, not the regular 100% level, that's why he's barely touching the expression. I'm going to experiment with that, perhaps that's why it seems too loud when people are making demos with it?

I usually never touch that on my spitfire libraries.

EDIT: Just tried it, and it's waaaay quieter, so I don't know if that is an accurate representation on his screen or if he's just mastering it to hell and back?


----------



## Banquet

jazzman7 said:


> Something has to be wrong. Took an hour here. USA North Carolina


I just have a crap internet connection. I live in a rural area and the connection has been getting worse lately...


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Banquet said:


> Holy Moly! I'm getting 7.5 Mbps and have been downloading for 13.5 hours, with an ETA of 11 hours 43 minutes to go. I'd have been quicker to order it by post!


Or fly to England and pick it up


----------



## RogiervG

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Or fly to England and pick it up


And say Hi to Paul, Chriss and the rest of the SA crew  (make a little video of that, or at least pictures.. i want to see that)


----------



## Banquet

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Or fly to England and pick it up


Lol, and as I live in England, I think it would literally be quicker!


----------



## holywilly

@novaburst 
I was kinda crazy that bought the library without listening any demos or watching premiere, just by reading the word “Appassionata” makes me an early adopter, I found this is quite a deep library to work with, different midi programming approach from what I had for years. 

I did put up 3 speed noodlings solely using Appassionata, that was my first day exploring this library. I think Appassionata is an inspiring library that doesn’t need to being compared or competed, although I have most of the strings libraries mentioned as competitors. 

Please grant us some times, I’m sure more quality demos, mock-ups are more to come.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Sa


Roger Newton said:


> May I ask how long it takes to download this library. It seems to be taklng quite a long time here. Over 10 hours.


me here. Longest download I’ve experienced


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

novaburst said:


> This.
> 
> So sorry for the rant but we do have ears if it does not sound good why post it,
> 
> I am a little direct so sorry for that, but the user has ears


It's a damn if you do damn if you don't kind of situation. I mean people are eager to hear user demos and some posters were kind enough to give us that. With more or less mix results... But i think most people here understand it's a new library and can read between the lines.


----------



## novaburst

@holywilly i love your music, was not referring to yours,

But think it unfear to call names, 

The trend i was seeing was they would knock the ball out the park with the comparison library so that told me they are pretty good, but when it came to SAS to compare it was obvious it sounded off and unbalanced but yet it was still posted and not only on this thread.

Its just something i noticed not a big deal


----------



## novaburst

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> It's a damn if you do damn if you don't kind of situation. I mean people are eager to hear user demos and some posters were kind enough to give us that. With more or less mix results... But i think most people here understand it's a new library and can read between the lines.


Double edge sword i guess


----------



## OleJoergensen

A short classical sounding divisi except.
Mics: st room -7, close -7, close ribbon -1, tree -9
release 30 %
tightness 50%
noise floor -20 db
Dynamic smoothing- relaxed

A bit of E.Q., compression and reverb.


-------------------------------------------------
Edit: I made some new test.

This time dynamic smoothing is agile and no reverb ,except from the first one.
1 new: mid -5, close ribbon-7 , tree -5, outriggers -5 (reverb)
2 new: mid -7, outriggers 0
3 new: tree 0
4 new: Mix 1


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Scamper said:


> Personally, I think SAS is quite lush for the size and a bit too large to work seamlessly with SCS. With SSS though, it's much closer, but SAS is still softer and lusher.


It was disappointing to read that for me cause i was thinking SCS and AS would be a killer combo. And then i went and listen a second time and i have to disagree. I think it works perfectly when AS is sort of the start of the show and play the melody above SCS arrangement where you want the section playing the melody to be a bit ticker. Works especially well layered but also not layered.

You're demos have been the most useful for me and others I'm sure. Much appreciated. 🍻


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

OleJoergensen said:


> A short classical sounding divisi except.
> Mics: st room -7, close -7, close ribbon -1, tree -9
> release 30 %
> tightness 50%
> noise floor -20 db
> 
> A bit of E.Q., compression and reverb.


Beautiful!


----------



## alcorey

sundrowned said:


> Someone was after faster cello passages. Here's a quick noodle straight out of the box with no adjustments. Played in slower without click then increased and a CC1 pass. Other than normalising the midi note lengths no midi editing (it could probably do with some) And I'm not much of a keyboard player.
> 
> View attachment Cello1.mp4
> 
> 
> Transposed down a few notes
> 
> View attachment Cello2.mp4
> 
> 
> And yes there is a click between C3 and D*#*3 in the first one.


Sundrowned thanks for that - may I ask which mics or mix you used for this example?


----------



## Baronvonheadless

OleJoergensen said:


> A short classical sounding divisi except.
> Mics: st room -7, close -7, close ribbon -1, tree -9
> release 30 %
> tightness 50%
> noise floor -20 db
> 
> A bit of E.Q., compression and reverb.


Nice, what's the legato offset and dynamic smoothing set to here?


----------



## OleJoergensen

Baronvonheadless said:


> Nice, what's the legato offset and dynamic smoothing set to here?


The offset I didnt change. The smoothing I changed (forgot what its called) but its what Paul shows in the walk through.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

OleJoergensen said:


> The offset I didnt change. The smoothing I changed (forgot what its called) but its what Paul shows in the walk through.


Right on, I think relaxed. The smoothest one.
Thank you!

I'm currently experimenting building different templates.


----------



## Scamper

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> It was disappointing to read that for me cause i was thinking SCS and AS would be a killer combo. And then i went and listen a second time and i have to disagree. I think it works perfectly when AS is sort of the start of the show and play the melody above SCS arrangement where you want the section playing the melody to be a bit ticker. Works especially well layered but also not layered.


With SAS and SCS, I certainly like, that the SAS violins are thicker. I think that's a big plus, since SCS is quite nasal. You can probably also make it sound better with different mic options - pretty much used Close + Tree on everything. With less Close on SCS and less Tree on SAS for example, it might be better.

But if you like it as it is, that's great too.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Baronvonheadless said:


> Right on, I think relaxed. The smoothest one.
> Thank you!
> 
> I'm currently experimenting building different templates.


Yes, relaxed .


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Scamper said:


> With SAS and SCS, I certainly like, that the SAS violins are thicker. I think that's a big plus, since SCS is quite nasal. You can probably also make it sound better with different mic options - pretty much used Close + Tree on everything. With less Close on SCS and less Tree on SAS for example, it might be better.
> 
> But if you like it as it is, that's great too.


Yes i forgot to mention about the mics option. I think somebody else mentioned it too earlier. But the point is your demo showed me enough that i think it would work. Also forgot to mention that, in a worse case scenario, one can double SCS with the tuning trick if needed? That's what I'm thinking for now. Thanks again.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

View attachment SAS Cinebrass Test.mp3

Today's experiment with SAS.
Mixed with Frozen Strings, BBC Core Timpani, and CineBrass Core.

Settings roughly:
Mics: st room -7, close -7, close ribbon -2, tree -8
release 35 %
tightness 50%
noise floor 15%
Reverb 30%


----------



## jazzman7

Banquet said:


> I just have a crap internet connection. I live in a rural area and the connection has been getting worse lately...


Bummer!


----------



## PaulieDC

novaburst said:


> Over on the Spitfire webpage listening to the demos from Blakus and others, also listening to Pauls walkthrough then listening to samples of the same library on this thread feels like two different library's are being used entirely, what i hear on the Spitfire webpage are very smooth legatos, agile movement, and lots of life, and a great tone,
> 
> But on this thread especially the comparison with CSS SAS sounds so out of place and messy, so what's going on is Paul and his team using a different library, is it their skill and playing style because in the tutorial Paul did not use reverb or any mic mixes until halfway through then what sounded very good sounded even better,
> 
> Then the demos sound so good so what are they doing that this thread is not, am i missing something.
> 
> I am just being honest seems like two different library's


Seems like this library will take a bit of time to work out execution, just like a new car when you first climb in. Blakus and the Spitfire team have _had_ that time, who knows how long this has been in development. If Blakus did a demo which is not often, and he’s getting good results, we know two things: 1) he’s had access for quite a while and 2) it’s a library worth working with because if it was a pile of schmootz, he wouldn’t have done it.


----------



## sundrowned

alcorey said:


> Sundrowned thanks for that - may I ask which mics or mix you used for this example?


Mix 1. Straight out of the box no adjustments.


----------



## jazzman7

OleJoergensen said:


> A short classical sounding divisi except.
> Mics: st room -7, close -7, close ribbon -1, tree -9
> release 30 %
> tightness 50%
> noise floor -20 db
> Dynamic smoothing- relaxed
> 
> A bit of E.Q., compression and reverb.


Excellent! Sounds like you took a bit of the harshness out of the Hi's, unless you just avoided the top dynamic on the Vlns. Either way, Wonderful!


----------



## jazzman7

PaulieDC said:


> Seems like this library will take a bit of time to work out execution, just like a new car when you first climb in. Blakus and the Spitfire team have _had_ that time, who knows how long this has been in development. If Blakus did a demo which is not often, and he’s getting good results, we know two things: 1) he’s had access for quite a while and 2) it’s a library worth working with because if it was a pile of schmootz, he wouldn’t have done it.


Good. Because I always try to avoid the schmootz whenever possible!


----------



## Ian Dorsch

Speed write with SAS Vln 1 & 2 (Mix 1), Symphonic Motions, and some Tundra Low Shorts. Really stoked to dig deeper into SAS - what a musical-sounding library.


----------



## thereus

Very very tasty...


----------



## OleJoergensen

jazzman7 said:


> Excellent! Sounds like you took a bit of the harshness out of the Hi's, unless you just avoided the top dynamic on the Vlns. Either way, Wonderful!


Thank you.
You have good ears, I lowered around 3.2 khz 1.5 db. But also added Clariphonic…


----------



## Joël Dollié

novaburst said:


> Over on the Spitfire webpage listening to the demos from Blakus and others, also listening to Pauls walkthrough then listening to samples of the same library on this thread feels like two different library's are being used entirely, what i hear on the Spitfire webpage are very smooth legatos, agile movement, and lots of life, and a great tone,
> 
> But on this thread especially the comparison with CSS SAS sounds so out of place and messy, so what's going on is Paul and his team using a different library, is it their skill and playing style because in the tutorial Paul did not use reverb or any mic mixes until halfway through then what sounded very good sounded even better,
> 
> Then the demos sound so good so what are they doing that this thread is not, am i missing something.
> 
> I am just being honest seems like two different library's


That's because they are using really good mic mixes in the demos, and also spent time tweaking the dynamic curves and have really good arrangements. It's still possible to make great libraries sound bad, if you play them through sibelius for example..


----------



## Blakus

PaulieDC said:


> Seems like this library will take a bit of time to work out execution, just like a new car when you first climb in. Blakus and the Spitfire team have _had_ that time, who knows how long this has been in development. If Blakus did a demo which is not often, and he’s getting good results, we know two things: 1) he’s had access for quite a while and 2) it’s a library worth working with because if it was a pile of schmootz, he wouldn’t have done it.


To address a few questions I've had:

In my demo(s) I only used the outrigger mics, with some subtle mid-mics. No panning, just a bit of Gullfoss and verb on the string bus. Personally, I find the included mixes too forward and narrow - but everyone has their own taste.

I had this library for maybe a week before it was released? Most of my time was spent trying to figure out how to write non-crap music (still trying to figure that out ), not working out how to use the library. If something doesn't sound correct, I fix it with midi CC - most of the time sample libraries need to be finessed somewhat to maintain the 'illusion', this is not new.

I think these legatos are quite a step up for Spitfire, it's also nice hearing some vibrato and emotion in the top layers. Here's another demo not yet listed on the site where I was exploring the softer dynamics of the library in a more exposed way, for anyone interested.


----------



## legacy

Blakus said:


> To address a few questions I've had:
> 
> In my demo(s) I only used the outrigger mics, with some subtle mid-mics. No panning, just a bit of Gullfoss and verb on the string bus. Personally, I find the included mixes too forward and narrow - but everyone has their own taste.
> 
> I had this library for maybe a week before it was released? Most of my time was spent trying to figure out how to write non-crap music (still trying to figure that out ), not trying to figure out how to use the library. If something doesn't sound correct, I fix it with midi CC - most of the time sample libraries need to be finessed somewhat, this is not new.
> 
> I think these legatos are quite a step up for Spitfire, it's also nice hearing some vibrato and emotion in the top layers. Here's another demo not listed on the site where I was exploring the softer dynamics of the library in a more exposed way for anyone interested.



My friend, this is lovely.


----------



## Scamper

RogiervG said:


> However i am wondering about a comparison between lyrical phrases (with counterpoint), instead of chords playing a progression..
> I have these libs (SCS, SSS, SAS and BBC core and CSS, not vista).. but still need to download SAS
> So if you would do a comparison... i give you a big thank you


Maybe not quite what you hoped for, but I quickly put together another legato piece. Maybe it helps a bit to get an impression of the library. There are also some attemps at repeated notes in there. I think it can work well enough, even without a dedicated feature.




I didn't have time to fully adjust the MIDI for the other libraries, but I'll still add the rough versions. Maybe it's a bit useful, but certainly not an even comparison.

CSS
View attachment Flow Demo - CSS.mp3

Vista
View attachment Flow Demo - Vista.mp3

SCS
View attachment Flow Demo - SCS.mp3

SSS
View attachment Flow Demo - SSS.mp3


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Scamper said:


> Maybe not quite what you hoped for, but I quickly put together another legato piece. Maybe it helps a bit to get an impression of the library. There are also some attemps at repeated notes in there. I think it can work well enough, even without a dedicated feature.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't have time to fully adjust the MIDI for the other libraries, but I'll still add the rough versions. Maybe it's a bit useful.
> 
> CSS
> View attachment Flow Demo - CSS.mp3
> 
> Vista
> View attachment 69077
> 
> SCS
> View attachment Flow Demo - SCS.mp3
> 
> SSS
> View attachment Flow Demo - SSS.mp3



Whoa something really nasty in vista around 16 seconds. Maybe a bouncing glitch?


----------



## PaulieDC

Blakus said:


> ...I had this library for maybe a week before it was released? Most of my time was spent trying to figure out how to write non-crap music (still trying to figure that out ), not working out how to use the library. If something doesn't sound correct, I fix it with midi CC - most of the time sample libraries need to be finessed somewhat to maintain the 'illusion', this is not new.



A week. Oy vey. You da MAN.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Blakus said:


> I had this library for maybe a week before it was released?



Yeah but did you write it on paper?


----------



## jazzman7

OleJoergensen said:


> Thank you.
> You have good ears, I lowered around 3.2 khz 1.5 db. But also added Clariphonic…


That is often the trouble spot! Love that KUSH stuff. I have Blyss myself. My new fav EQ tone-wise. If I could fine a more surgical EQ with an X/Y interface with that kind of tone... instant GAS


----------



## Scamper

Ian Dorsch said:


>



Lovely. It seems to go really well with Symphonic Motions.



Baronvonheadless said:


> Whoa something really nasty in vista around 16 seconds. Maybe a bouncing glitch?


Ah yes. Not a bouncing glitch - just horrible MIDI for note repetitions in Vista. I fixed it a bit now.


----------



## jazzman7

Baronvonheadless said:


> Whoa something really nasty in vista around 16 seconds. Maybe a bouncing glitch?


Nothing quite like VISTA for aching emotion. I have to keep a sharp eye on it tho, it can misbehave every now and then. Not for Purists! SAS is more restrained, but has a lovely tone. Layering it under VISTA is something I've been playing with. I like what I'm hearing so far


----------



## jazzman7

jazzman7 said:


> Good. Because I always try to avoid the schmootz whenever possible!


This thread has added a couple of new items to my Lexicon. Musty Armpit, and Schmootz. Neither of which has anything to do with SAS!


----------



## NoamL

Jdiggity1 said:


> Yeah but did you write it on paper?


very important to have an eraser on hand too, just in case you write something that isn't antediluvian!


----------



## FireGS

Blakus said:


> In my demo(s) I only used the outrigger mics, with some subtle mid-mics. No panning, just a bit of Gullfoss and verb on the string bus. Personally, I find the included mixes too forward and narrow - but everyone has their own taste.


Yeah, this. Almost all of the demos posted (all over the forum) that I haven't liked the sound have been with a priority of the close mics (by wayyy too much). I'm not sure why people don't understand the point of close mics -- they're not there to carry the sound, they're there to enhance it, if needed. The further mics are where the magic is at... if the room sounds good, and the recording/engineering of the samples are good, too.

Prioritizing close mics will get you a very mono sound (kinda cool for certain vintage effects?), and a very collapsed stereo image that's not that pleasing or modern. Panned close mics are still just mono spots moved around a stereo field and not the same at all as a real stereo pair recorded at a distance.


----------



## Grilled Cheese

Appasionata Woodwinds. I know I’m getting ahead of myself but I would very VERY much like to have this too. 

I value expression, realism and good acoustics much more than huge articulation sets. Appasionata seems to have hit the nail on the head here. The thought of this approach being applied to winds has me drooling. 🤤


----------



## muziksculp

So, is their new 'Impluse Legato' the secret sauce of this library's wonderful sounding legatos ? 

Any guesses what Impulse Legato is ? 

I would love an Appassionata Solo Strings library, that uses this new Impulse Legato tech.


----------



## holywilly

How about emote Appassionata orchestra.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

muziksculp said:


> So, is their new 'Impluse Legato' the secret sauce of this library's wonderful sounding legatos ?
> 
> Any guesses what Impulse Legato is ?
> 
> I would love an Appassionata Solo Strings library, that uses this new Impulse Legato tech.


Yeah I wish they could have implemented this legato (and dynamic smoothing) into ABBEY ROAD 2 because at the moment I'm not sure why I spent all this money on that portamento, with all its bugs and weird volume jumps and it jumping down octaves depending what mic you use. I love the extra mics, I love the library, made some killer stuff with it already. But holy SHIT is it buggy as hell...
The mod wheel dynamics are weird, really jump a lot. 

I love the shorts and flautando of AR2 tho.


----------



## Akarin

Scamper said:


> Maybe not quite what you hoped for, but I quickly put together another legato piece. Maybe it helps a bit to get an impression of the library. There are also some attemps at repeated notes in there. I think it can work well enough, even without a dedicated feature.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't have time to fully adjust the MIDI for the other libraries, but I'll still add the rough versions. Maybe it's a bit useful.
> 
> CSS
> View attachment Flow Demo - CSS.mp3
> 
> Vista
> View attachment Flow Demo - Vista.mp3
> 
> SCS
> View attachment Flow Demo - SCS.mp3
> 
> SSS
> View attachment Flow Demo - SSS.mp3




Wow... Vista sounds like someone rubbing a wet cloth on a metal pot. I really like CSS here and SAS comes as a close second.


----------



## muziksculp

Baronvonheadless said:


> Yeah I wish they could have implemented this legato (and dynamic smoothing) into ABBEY ROAD 2 because at the moment I'm not sure why I spent all this money on that portamento, with all its bugs and weird volume jumps and it jumping down octaves depending what mic you use. I love the extra mics, I love the library, made some killer stuff with it already. But holy SHIT is it buggy as hell...
> The mod wheel dynamics are weird, really jump a lot.
> 
> I love the shorts and flautando of AR2 tho.


I didn't realize AR-2 Iconic Strings is that buggy. Hopefully they will improve it via updates.

The new Impulse Legato is very interesting, and I'm very surprised it has not gotten more attention on this thread. How does it work ? what makes it superior to their standard legato techniques ? and how likely is it to be used in future libraries ? all very important questions imho.


----------



## Noeticus

muziksculp said:


> So, is their new 'Impluse Legato' the secret sauce of this library's wonderful sounding legatos ?
> 
> Any guesses what Impulse Legato is ?
> 
> I would love an Appassionata Solo Strings library, that uses this new Impulse Legato tech.


Perhaps they recorded the legatos in motion during normal playing, you know, like Vista.


----------



## Lazeez

Just out of curiosity, what is range for legato offset? Also, can it be mapped to a CC midi channel for automation? Thanks.


----------



## muziksculp

Noeticus said:


> Perhaps they recorded the legatos in motion during normal playing, you know, like Vista.


Maybe, but we really don't know.


----------



## NoamL

Lazeez said:


> Just out of curiosity, what is range for legato offset? Also, can it be mapped to a CC midi channel for automation? Thanks.


100 to 150 ms, it is controllable by CC16 or can be reassigned.

EDIT: @Jdiggity1 reminded me there's a bug with cc re assignment right now. Hopefully fixed soon.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Man, the more I get used to it...this library can REALLY sing. I thought MSS was my favorite legato to do this mock up with...and does sound very good, but this one sounds absolutely identical when I was playing along to the Fellowship soundtrack to test it...so I recorded it.


View attachment LOTR.mp3


----------



## Lazeez

NoamL said:


> 100 to 150 ms, it is controllable by CC16 or can be reassigned.
> 
> EDIT: @Jdiggity1 reminded me there's a bug with cc re assignment right now. Hopefully fixed soon.


Thanks.


----------



## muziksculp

NoamL said:


> EDIT: @Jdiggity1 reminded me there's a bug with cc re assignment right now. Hopefully fixed soon.


Any idea what the bug/issue is right now ?


----------



## Jdiggity1

muziksculp said:


> Any idea what the bug/issue is right now ?


Enabling the "Learn MIDI CC automation" results in a rather impressive fader dance:

View attachment c3c07f277cc41570166f7cef1f528b2b.mp4


The issue has been logged with Spitfire, so it should only be a matter of time until fixed.


----------



## muziksculp

Jdiggity1 said:


> Enabling the "Learn MIDI CC automation" results in a rather impressive fader dance:
> 
> View attachment c3c07f277cc41570166f7cef1f528b2b.mp4
> 
> 
> The issue has been logged with Spitfire, so it should only be a matter of time until fixed.


THANKS


----------



## Baronvonheadless

I also really like how it combines with MSS Shorts.


Ok, I'm probably done testing for now. And need to get back to writing actual music haha.

View attachment SAS:MSS .mp3

Here I'm using the MSS surround and stage mic with a dash of close mixed with SAS with the Outriggers and a dash of mids. Seventh heaven scoring stage verb on MSS and no verb on SAS.




View attachment Mss_SAS close .mp3

And here is a version with a more Close mic centric/stage mic focus. A lot cleaner





View attachment Mss_SAS medium.mp3

& then finally, one where SAS is outriggers only and MSS shorts are close mic heavy. Maybe my favorite.


EDIT: I would love any feedback as to which combo y'all think sounds best?


----------



## rrichard63

muziksculp said:


> The new Impulse Legato is very interesting, and I'm very surprised it has not gotten more attention on this thread ...


I think the reason for the lack of commentary about this is that none of us know what to say, other than whether we like it or not. (It sounds good to me, but I'm not a deputized legato cop.)

The only explanation I can think of -- and it's pure speculation -- is that "impulse" refers to using IRs of the recording space in some way to make the transitions between notes sound smoother. Whatever they're doing, it's very subtle and doesn't sound at all like a programming trick.


----------



## storyteller

Jdiggity1 said:


> Enabling the "Learn MIDI CC automation" results in a rather impressive fader dance:
> 
> View attachment c3c07f277cc41570166f7cef1f528b2b.mp4
> 
> 
> The issue has been logged with Spitfire, so it should only be a matter of time until fixed.


Haha. Yeah - I noticed this too. I thought there must be something weird on my end. If you are actively moving a fader or knob when you try to map it, you have a much better chance of it catching that CC rather than it doing its dance with CC122. But you have to keep trying until you get it.


----------



## CT

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> I would like to hear 1sts and 2nds only from the top of the page to rehearsal 23. ...if anyone has time.


Hi Stephen. Here’s part of what you asked for (the first 16 bars), and some of what you didn't ask for (the violas, celli, and basses). I’m not sure this passage is really within the purview of the library, at least in the way it is phrased in many performances, although I think it works nicely enough for the weird world of fake orchestras.

I’ve not gone further than this, since it doesn’t seem like a very useful exercise to push the “Glancing Attacks,” which are lovely as quavers here, into semiquaver territory. It just doesn't work sensibly. I would likely reach for Chamber Strings to fill out those bits.

You’ll have to forgive the general sloppiness; I really didn’t feel like playing something as elastic as this with a click.

View attachment berlioz.mp3


----------



## Banquet

Scamper said:


> Maybe not quite what you hoped for, but I quickly put together another legato piece. Maybe it helps a bit to get an impression of the library. There are also some attemps at repeated notes in there. I think it can work well enough, even without a dedicated feature.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't have time to fully adjust the MIDI for the other libraries, but I'll still add the rough versions. Maybe it's a bit useful.
> 
> CSS
> View attachment Flow Demo - CSS.mp3
> 
> Vista
> View attachment Flow Demo - Vista.mp3
> 
> SCS
> View attachment Flow Demo - SCS.mp3
> 
> SSS
> View attachment Flow Demo - SSS.mp3



Thanks for doing this comparison. SAS is my clear favourite here.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Baronvonheadless said:


> I also really like how it combines with MSS Shorts.
> 
> Here I'm using the MSS surround and stage mic with a dash of close mixed with SAS with the Outriggers and a dash of mids. Seventh heaven scoring stage verb on MSS and no verb on SAS.
> 
> Ok, I'm probably done testing for now. And need to get back to writing actual music haha.
> 
> View attachment SAS:MSS .mp3
> 
> 
> And here is a version with a more Close mic centric/stage mic focus. A lot cleaner
> 
> 
> View attachment Mss_SAS close .mp3
> 
> 
> & then finally, one where SAS is outriggers only and MSS shorts are close mic heavy. Maybe my favorite.
> 
> 
> View attachment Mss_SAS medium.mp3


Sounds lovely!


----------



## Jackdnp121

so I layered Appassionata Strings with ABBEY ROAD 1 High Strings Patch ....

Short demo test with Hans Zimmer - Tennesse 

I have to say I'm really liking the sound ... I'm looking forward for the proper Abbey Road Legato


View attachment Tennesse Hans Zimmer - Strings Test.mp3


----------



## RogiervG

Scamper said:


> Maybe not quite what you hoped for, but I quickly put together another legato piece. Maybe it helps a bit to get an impression of the library. There are also some attemps at repeated notes in there. I think it can work well enough, even without a dedicated feature.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't have time to fully adjust the MIDI for the other libraries, but I'll still add the rough versions. Maybe it's a bit useful, but certainly not an even comparison.
> 
> CSS
> View attachment Flow Demo - CSS.mp3
> 
> Vista
> View attachment Flow Demo - Vista.mp3
> 
> SCS
> View attachment Flow Demo - SCS.mp3
> 
> SSS
> View attachment Flow Demo - SSS.mp3



a big thank you! i shall listen to it later on proper monitors


----------



## zeng

jazzman7 said:


> Nothing quite like VISTA for aching emotion. I have to keep a sharp eye on it tho, it can misbehave every now and then. Not for Purists! SAS is more restrained, but has a lovely tone. Layering it under VISTA is something I've been playing with. I like what I'm hearing so far


are you blending Vista with SAS? If so what are your thoughts? I am trying to decide which one to use in a project, but layering them might be an good idea!


----------



## ForestGoat

Who could resist at that price? Replaced and reworked some SSS legato lines on a couple of existing mockups as an initial experiment. It's certainly an upgrade in most respects, however the limited implementation of the portamento is extremely frustrating. Hope this might be expanded in a future update.


----------



## OleJoergensen

I tired some new mic mixes....





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


Holy Moly! I'm getting 7.5 Mbps and have been downloading for 13.5 hours, with an ETA of 11 hours 43 minutes to go. I'd have been quicker to order it by post! Or fly to England and pick it up :)




vi-control.net


----------



## jonathanwright

I was half way through composing a track so decided to try out SAS instead of my usual libraries. The MIDI took a bit of massaging initially, but overall once I found the mic settings I liked the library become fairly intuitive to use.

This is more of a hybrid track, with the strings in context rather than a naked legato demo.


----------



## Simon Ravn

It's a nice addition to my string arsenal, but it has its pros and cons. Pros are the size, the detail of the sound. I think the cons are mainly that lower layers are lacking emotion (vibrato), especially for violas+cellos, but generally. For violas you have to go really high in the dynamics to get any noticeable vibrato. I know it's about striking a balance, but I really wish SF had done regular and molto vib for ALL layers in this, it could have been a much more versatile library!

I tried mocking up the beginning of a track from John Williams' "Empire of the Sun" (I stopped right where it gets really hard).

I think it sounds decent but it is as much a testament to the composition and orchestration skills of Williams. I actually had to layer CSS violas to give just a hint of the VERY vibrato/emotive sound of the original here. With SAS alone it would have been much more stale regarding the violas.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I've been having my music room decorated, and I've only just got the basics plugged back in so I can listen the samples on proper monitors. It does sound rather good, and at that price it seems rude not to.....


----------



## Henu

I've been really trying to want to buy this for two days. But all the naked demos make me just feel this sounds generally mushy with awkward tails reminding me more of pads than actual strings. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with the demos, quite the contrary. @Scamper especially has done a wonderful job comparing libraries together.

Ironically enough, for my ears this library sounds rather _emotionless_ and even nihilistic than "passionate" compared to that parkinson- type of vibrato and overexaggerated legatos which I love. :D But that's actually the main thing which keeps me still checking the new posts and demos you peeps have kindly posted because I think I could also use a bit more "normal" legatos in my arsenal compared to vistas and soaringstrings and whatnot!


----------



## N.Caffrey

I've played with it briefly today and I really like it!


----------



## zeng

Don't you think that missing of portamento (as an articulation) is one of cons of this library?


----------



## ism

Henu said:


> Ironically enough, for my ears this library sounds rather _emotionless_ and even nihilistic than "passionate" compared to that parkinson- type of vibrato and overexaggerated legatos which I love. :D But that's actually the main thing which keeps me still checking the new posts and demos you peeps have kindly posted because I think I could also use a bit more "normal" legatos in my arsenal compared to vistas and soaringstrings and whatnot!


That's an interesting take. I'd be very interested to see what you make of the library should be pick it up.

It's also interesting, that I tend to think of the CSS kind of legato + progressive vibrato arcs as what's "normal" in these parts. And the kind of very lyrical emotion of SAS as much more niche. But perhaps that's changing as the universe expands.

Where I do feel that SAS can lack emotion, is when it tries to compete with CSS Vista et al on those soaring lines. Where I'm really feeling the emotion of SAS is in subtler lines, and generally at lower dynamics, where the f layer is used as emphasis, and not an inexorable destination (as it, almost by definition, is in the musicality of a soaring line). 

Or course, SAS has some capacity in the soaring - those portamentos/slides in the higher dynamics are vary nice. And this can be a very nice emotional gesture as a kind of punctuation or emphasis to enhance the nuances of the softer lyrically. But it's never going to compete with CSS or Vista within this musicality. Though it's interesting to see the demos in when it's attempted, and they're really not bad at all.

I've also been playing along with Berlin Strings to some of the SAS walkthoughs. And it strikes me that BS Vl I sits more closely to the soaring musicality, although to the extreme of CSS. And VL II is more closely adjacent to the soft lyricism spectrum, much closer to SAS.

I find all these different perspectives on the instrument very interesting, and the more libraries we have to play with, the more it all seems to make sense to me.


----------



## aeliron




----------



## blaggins

Anyone have Cubase expression maps for SAS before I go making my own?


----------



## zwhita

Henu said:


> all the naked demos make me just feel this sounds generally mushy with awkward tails reminding me more of pads than actual strings.


Funny, my impression hearing the demos has consistently been one of improved realism in legatos and clarity of Air studio. I also passed on CSS, Vista and Soaring Strings last year in part due to the baked-in amount of vibrato and the "sucking" effect on the transient. The tone of SAS beats all three of these, imo. More to the point, I can already hear compositions in my head with what has been presented thus far, and I owe that to members here who have posted lovely work with a library that isn't even 2 weeks old yet!


----------



## jbuhler

Simon Ravn said:


> It's a nice addition to my string arsenal, but it has its pros and cons. Pros are the size, the detail of the sound. I think the cons are mainly that lower layers are lacking emotion (vibrato), especially for violas+cellos, but generally. For violas you have to go really high in the dynamics to get any noticeable vibrato. I know it's about striking a balance, but I really wish SF had done regular and molto vib for ALL layers in this, it could have been a much more versatile library!
> 
> I tried mocking up the beginning of a track from John Williams' "Empire of the Sun" (I stopped right where it gets really hard).
> 
> I think it sounds decent but it is as much a testament to the composition and orchestration skills of Williams. I actually had to layer CSS violas to give just a hint of the VERY vibrato/emotive sound of the original here. With SAS alone it would have been much more stale regarding the violas.


I agree that the violas are comparatively dull but I honestly don’t think it’s the vibrato that’s at issue. (I’m not sure what the issue is and I was trying to puzzle it out myself last night, and I wonder if it’s just that the viola here has been engineered for its typical role of unobtrusively playing inner parts.) In any case, I like the low vibrato on the low dynamic layer of the violins and I don’t think we could get the same effect dialing it in ourselves. The built in vibrato is part or what makes the patch so dynamic. And having non-vib, vib, and molto-vib samples would increase the legato and sustain patches by three times, greatly enlarging the library and likely making it more expensive. And they seem to have been quite keen on hitting the price point on this. And so far I mostly like the choices they made on the tradeoffs to bring it in at a comparatively affordable price.


----------



## blaggins

tpoots said:


> Anyone have Cubase expression maps for SAS before I go making my own?


Actually I don't even know why I asked, that took like 5 min. If anyone wants a Direction-style map that is generic for SFAS (all patches use the same keyswitches and articulations after all) here it is:









cubase-expression-maps/SFAS Direction.expressionmap at main · tpoots/cubase-expression-maps


Expression maps I have made, tested with Cubase Pro 11 - cubase-expression-maps/SFAS Direction.expressionmap at main · tpoots/cubase-expression-maps




github.com


----------



## jbuhler

zeng said:


> Don't you think that missing of portamento (as an articulation) is one of cons of this library?


Yes, I’d prefer to have portamento throughout, but it’s also not a deal killer for the kind of legato this is.


----------



## Aitcpiano

I've briefly tried it out and I really like it, great library, great sound, good price, and nice legatos with effective bow change and slurred legato. I would like an update though to include rebow repeated notes. Could this be added in an update?

I really like the direction Spitfire is taking with this and like this approach of easy to use and effective playable patches. Would be amazing if they also incorporated faster legatos and runs into these new legatos. I'd like to see these types of legatos and improved performance legato type patches in their upcoming AR libraries.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

Michaelt said:


> I’m not sure this passage is really within the purview of the library,


Got it! Yeah trying to determine what the purview of a library is can be difficult without trying it yourself, so I was curious to hear if it is more of an ‘adagio’ kind of library or one that attempts to tackle all manner of musical figures. 

Thank you for whipping that up real quick!


----------



## doctoremmet

@Daniel James dropped this:


----------



## Baronvonheadless

One thing I wish spitfire would let you choose as an option, is how the notes connect. I really like how in vista, cinebrass and OT libraries if you are playing legato u can just hit the next note, keep holding down the prior and let go of the note and it jumps back to the prior if you’re still holding it. 

As someone who’s not a great keyboardist, it helps achieve smoother/faster legato lines versus having to press every key you want to trigger. 

I wonder why some libraries choose not to program like this (spitfire and audiobro etc).


----------



## RogiervG

Henu said:


> I've been really trying to want to buy this for two days. But all the naked demos make me just feel this sounds generally mushy with awkward tails reminding me more of pads than actual strings. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with the demos, quite the contrary. @Scamper especially has done a wonderful job comparing libraries together.
> 
> Ironically enough, for my ears this library sounds rather _emotionless_ and even nihilistic than "passionate" compared to that parkinson- type of vibrato and overexaggerated legatos which I love. :D But that's actually the main thing which keeps me still checking the new posts and demos you peeps have kindly posted because I think I could also use a bit more "normal" legatos in my arsenal compared to vistas and soaringstrings and whatnot!


i think your hearing is adjusted to the vibrato heavy legato's (romantic era, tear jerker movie score/scene). So your brain thinks that's a normal legato for expressive/dynamic playing. But in reality this isn't the case with strings. Molto vibrato playing is only applied when needed (on notation). That "normal" legato is the ... well.. normal thing  And each lib/real strings ensemble sounds different doing normal legato (if they are doing normal that is).  But your ears are not used to that sound, hence the "emotionless" feeling. I was in the same boat for years.. untill i recently listened to many orchestral recordings (with ofcourse expressive playing), and i noticed that the vibrato was present, but kind of slightly, not strong. Expressive seemed to be more about dynamic flowing, than vibrato. (exceptions not taken into account)


----------



## Batrawi

holywilly said:


> Here is another test of SAS of the dynamic ranges, repeated notes, and legato transition variations.
> 
> I created my own mix which is:
> Stereo Room: -7.0 dB
> Close: -7.0 dB
> Close Ribbon: 0 dB
> 
> And I tweak the setting (same to all sections):
> Tightness: 50%
> Release: 50%
> Legato offset: 100ms
> 
> View attachment Appassionata_Str_2.mp3
> 
> 
> I'm quite happy with this setting. Now porting them into my template.


whait, those repeated notes right at the beginning of the piece are simply triggered by repeating same note with the legato articulation?!!

(beautiful music by the way!)


----------



## Henu

RogiervG said:


> untill i recently listened to many orchestral recordings


Ah, don't worry- I'm very accustomed with how real orchestra sounds like. I've been listening to orchestral music since my childhood and have a background with classical piano as well.  It's just that I _love_ that romantic era sound so much, hah! But as said, I'm interested getting this one, and @ism pointed out it seems to work even better on lower dynamics where you don't necessarily want those tear-jerking crescendos leading into a grandiose explosion of galaxies, haha!


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

i'm getting processing overload in Cubase using Appassionata while just playing in certain legato phrases. Not sure why. Any tips on optimising the Spitifre player? I'm running from an M.2 SSD, 64GB RAM and I7 8700k


----------



## holywilly

Batrawi said:


> whait, those repeated notes right at the beginning of the piece are simply triggered by repeating same note with the legato articulation?!!
> 
> (beautiful music by the way!)


Yes.


----------



## Batrawi

holywilly said:


> Yes.


ok, buy now.... I mean bye now!


----------



## RogiervG

Batrawi said:


> ok, buy now.... I mean bye now!


or both


----------



## Zanshin

NeonMediaKJT said:


> i'm getting processing overload in Cubase using Appassionata while just playing in certain legato phrases. Not sure why. Any tips on optimising the Spitifre player? I'm running from an M.2 SSD, 64GB RAM and I7 8700k


Make sure your cpu is not being throttled (power options) and the sample directories are excluded from anti virus. Your set up should be more than enough for this.


----------



## jbuhler

NeonMediaKJT said:


> i'm getting processing overload in Cubase using Appassionata while just playing in certain legato phrases. Not sure why. Any tips on optimising the Spitifre player? I'm running from an M.2 SSD, 64GB RAM and I7 8700k


I was noticing that my 2020 i9—no slouch of a machine—was having issues when I had more than 4 mics open in all of the 5 sections doing speed tests on the legato (only the violins were using legato though). This is in Logic. A couple of the cores (probably those associated with the violins) end up saturated here and there even when I select a disabled audio track (which usually solves these kinds of issues). It makes me wonder what's going on with the dynamic smoothing and impulse legato math, since it seems almost as taxing on the CPU as stretching samples for tempo syncing, and the CPU hit seems to increase with the number of mics.


----------



## jamwerks

Baronvonheadless said:


> View attachment SAS Cinebrass Test.mp3
> 
> Today's experiment with SAS.
> Mixed with Frozen Strings, BBC Core Timpani, and CineBrass Core.
> 
> Settings roughly:
> Mics: st room -7, close -7, close ribbon -2, tree -8
> release 35 %
> tightness 50%
> noise floor 15%
> Reverb 30%


Nice melody & progression. Would be killer by adding some WW's !!


----------



## holywilly

jbuhler said:


> I was noticing that my 2020 i9—no slouch of a machine—was having issues when I had more than 4 mics open in all of the 5 sections doing speed tests on the legato (only the violins were using legato though). This is in Logic. A couple of the cores (probably those associated with the violins) end up saturated here and there even when I select a disabled audio track (which usually solves these kinds of issues). It makes me wonder what's going on with the dynamic smoothing and impulse legato math, since it seems almost as taxing on the CPU as stretching samples for tempo syncing, and the CPU hit seems to increase with the number of mics.


This is weird, I ran all 5 sections (5 instrument tracks) with 3 mics enable in Cubase Pro 11 on my ancient 2013 Mac Pro (12cores) without any performance issues.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I've also run all 5 sections with 2 mics enabled in Cubase on my i9 iMac without issues (plenty of CPU headroom left).


----------



## Baronvonheadless

jamwerks said:


> Nice melody & progression. Would be killer by adding some WW's !!


Thank you so much. I really like it too. I’m actually in the process of writing a piece around it. I think it sounds like a good ending for something. Any idea on how to implement woodwinds nicely to that part? Can’t decide if they should reinforce the melody or do like an arpeggio or something.


----------



## jamwerks

I hear WW's at the end of that passage in kind of a tutti fashion (Bassoons w/Horns or Celli, Clarinets in the middle and Flutes w/high violins.


----------



## jbuhler

holywilly said:


> This is weird, I ran all 5 sections (5 instrument tracks) with 3 mics enable in Cubase Pro 11 on my ancient 2013 Mac Pro (12cores) without any performance issues.


Well, it only exhibits issues when I have more than 4 or more mics, agile (default) dynamic smoothing, and I'm running lots of sixteenth note legato patterns at a fast tempo, though if I'm reading the meters right, oddly the main spikes come when I shift from legato articulation to straight sustain. Relaxed dynamic smoothing seems less taxing on the CPU, maybe 10% less.


----------



## jazzman7

zeng said:


> are you blending Vista with SAS? If so what are your thoughts? I am trying to decide which one to use in a project, but layering them might be an good idea!


My original idea was that it might be possible to 

1) Layer VISTA in to give SAS more emotion or

2) Layer in a way give VISTA some of that SAS tone. 

An all VISTA track tends to be a bit muffled sounding at times from what my ear tells me, but my attempts to EQ have yielded only incremental results, but layering SAS changes the sound in a pretty pleasing way. 

Adding SAS tone under VISTA is the easier job than adding VISTAS emotion to an SAS line since it gets pretty easy to blur up the transitions if I get too trigger happy. 

On top of that, with all the mic positions available, there are a million options. My experiments show me that I do best when I write my best line with one or the other, then blend to taste.

I'm building a template getting the NEG delays lined up nicely for both, and then experimenting away!


----------



## jazzman7

Henu said:


> I've been really trying to want to buy this for two days. But all the naked demos make me just feel this sounds generally mushy with awkward tails reminding me more of pads than actual strings. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with the demos, quite the contrary. @Scamper especially has done a wonderful job comparing libraries together.
> 
> Ironically enough, for my ears this library sounds rather _emotionless_ and even nihilistic than "passionate" compared to that parkinson- type of vibrato and overexaggerated legatos which I love. :D But that's actually the main thing which keeps me still checking the new posts and demos you peeps have kindly posted because I think I could also use a bit more "normal" legatos in my arsenal compared to vistas and soaringstrings and whatnot!


That's EXACTLY why I added it to the arsenal. Until there is "One Ring to rule them all" layering and swapping (With all the work that entails) seems the way to go from over here


----------



## jazzman7

NeonMediaKJT said:


> i'm getting processing overload in Cubase using Appassionata while just playing in certain legato phrases. Not sure why. Any tips on optimising the Spitifre player? I'm running from an M.2 SSD, 64GB RAM and I7 8700k


1st step for me would be to unload all unused Arts in any instance


----------



## jazzman7

muziksculp said:


>



Interesting to watch. DJ seemed pretty comfortable with SAS. I noticed he did pull off some mids and lo mids and just a bit of that pesky 3k range on the hi stuff. I was also intrigued by the Waves sound shifter he used for a bit there. Think I'll demo that. I would love to learn more about the particular reasons He uses this himself, but I could see possibilities!


----------



## Kevperry777

Love the lib….great deal for what you get. This is so well done…makes me lament even more the legatos in Solstice.

Someone help me with the hairpins. Not exactly hairpins?


----------



## jbuhler

Kevperry777 said:


> Someone help me with the hairpins. Not exactly hairpins?


Not really, though you can use the modwheel to shape them into traditional hairpins. But the short ones actually work very nicely as longer shorts/short longs, and they do generally take well to shaping with the modwheel.


----------



## stephane_f

Is there a significant difference between performance legato from chamber strings library and the one from Appassionata strings. If someone could post any audio comparison.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

stephane_f said:


> Is there a significant difference between performance legato from chamber strings library and the one from Appassionata strings. If someone could post any audio comparison.


Scamper has posted comparison on page 51 and 54. You should be able to hear what you want.


----------



## CT

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Got it! Yeah trying to determine what the purview of a library is can be difficult without trying it yourself, so I was curious to hear if it is more of an ‘adagio’ kind of library or one that attempts to tackle all manner of musical figures.
> 
> Thank you for whipping that up real quick!


No problem, just a matter of reading off the page. I would say that the library is most squarely aimed at flowing, lyrical lines, yes. If you're in a bind, it can be pretty nimble, but that's more like an ease of use bonus. 

The various performance-based legatos in SSS and SCS always felt to me a bit prohibitively designed for nimble, agile lines with a lot of length variations and quick gestures. They're not _incapable_ of anything more long and fluid, but the methodology behind these new legatos shows what a difference is possible when something is really purpose-built. 

At this point I'd not want to be without either, but I must say, the musicality captured in this instance is just immensely valuable for me. Makes this whole process more joyful.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Hey guys,

I tried to record my problem. It seems the clicks and pops don't show in the recording in OBS, what could that mean? towards the end I open the performance meter and you can see how the maximum bar is maxing out every few transitions and that is where there is an audible click. I check the processor usage in task manager and the CPU usage stays below 20%. Not sure what the problem is?
View attachment appassionata.mp4


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Michael Antrum

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I tried to record my problem. It seems the clicks and pops don't show in the recording in OBS, what could that mean? towards the end I open the performance meter and you can see how the maximum bar is maxing out every few transitions and that is where there is an audible click. I check the processor usage in task manager and the CPU usage stays below 20%. Not sure what the problem is?
> View attachment appassionata.mp4


----------



## Robo Rivard

Lovely, warm sound. Something tells me it would sit well with OT Miroire and Tallin.


----------



## colony nofi

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I tried to record my problem. It seems the clicks and pops don't show in the recording in OBS, what could that mean? towards the end I open the performance meter and you can see how the maximum bar is maxing out every few transitions and that is where there is an audible click. I check the processor usage in task manager and the CPU usage stays below 20%. Not sure what the problem is?
> View attachment appassionata.mp4


Just a quick "managing expectations" post for you.
DAW's rarely (especially in midi mockup mode) utilise the full CPU that is shown in performance meters of an OS.
Audio is a realtime system, meaning bottle necks can occur WELL before all cores are saturated (or in some cases, even used) on a modern CPU. Its sometimes referred to as the core zero problem... where the first core becomes overwhelmed well before others. It isn't the fault of the DAW or the CPU. Its the nature of realtime audio.
So don't look at task manager much more than a cursory glance. It won't tell you what you need to know to diagnose your problem.

That being said, your issue is interesting. We'd need far more info on what your computer is, how it is setup, chipset, cpu, ram etc etc before starting to figure out if this is plugin performance related or just reaching the edge of what your system can handle. I'd be jumping straight into a chat with spitfire support. They're generally quite responsive and knowledgable.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

colony nofi said:


> Just a quick "managing expectations" post for you.
> DAW's rarely (especially in midi mockup mode) utilise the full CPU that is shown in performance meters of an OS.
> Audio is a realtime system, meaning bottle necks can occur WELL before all cores are saturated (or in some cases, even used) on a modern CPU. Its sometimes referred to as the core zero problem... where the first core becomes overwhelmed well before others. It isn't the fault of the DAW or the CPU. Its the nature of realtime audio.
> So don't look at task manager much more than a cursory glance. It won't tell you what you need to know to diagnose your problem.
> 
> That being said, your issue is interesting. We'd need far more info on what your computer is, how it is setup, chipset, cpu, ram etc etc before starting to figure out if this is plugin performance related or just reaching the edge of what your system can handle. I'd be jumping straight into a chat with spitfire support. They're generally quite responsive and knowledgable.


Yeah I’m currently moving it to my other ssd just to see if that makes a difference. I recall synchron strings did something similar and when I relocated it, it worked as normal. I have also sent a message to spitfire.


----------



## ThatAdamGuy

jbuhler said:


> [...] I don't find the library exactly plonkable in the way Paul suggests, though it is quite playable and with the lower dynamic layers especially you need much less movement of CC1 and CC11 than other SF libraries, and you can indeed sometimes almost go without moving them without the samples dying of looping sameness on you. [...]


Hope y'all will forgive the slight digression, but...

One thing that's fascinated / vexed me about Spitfire libraries in particular is that *they apparently all basically require two sliders (or a slider and a mod wheel) to simultaneously massage CC1 and CC11 in live playing*; I think even Paul noted this in one of his videos. This in contrast with, say, Aaron Ventures' libraries, which seem to do fine with just a mod wheel + crafty velocity.

*Alas, my Komplete Kontrol keyboard has no sliders, just a single mod wheel.* I have enjoyed using my TEC breath + bite controller to tackle expression + vibrato and such for brass [example], but I'm loathe to rely on this breath controller for string work as you can imagine.

Should I just suck it up and buy a separate set of sliders or something like that if I want to make the most of my Spitfire libraries (AR1, EWC, etc.)?


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Yeah I’m currently moving it to my other ssd just to see if that makes a difference. I recall synchron strings did something similar and when I relocated it, it worked as normal. I have also sent a message to spitfire.


ok, just did a quick bit of troubleshooting. I relocated the library to my other SSD. Loaded up the same mic position on each patch and played all the patches together at the same time just as before. Same clicking and popping (unusable). Then I decided to try the same thing in Reaper instead of Cubase and it runs like butter! So there is something about this library on my system that doesn't like Cubase.

Is anybody here who owns the library who uses cubase able to just try playing all the legato patches together at once through midi keyboard on mic mix 2?

Cheers!


----------



## Robo Rivard

I'm not really sure what Appassionata means. Is it the same thing as "soaring"?... 
I have always been a fan of the film "Brigadoon". I remember crying as a kid watching it, because the music was "sooooo beautiful". What label would you give to the strings performance in this track?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Robo Rivard said:


> I'm not really sure what Appassionata means. Is it the same thing as "soaring"?...


I'm pretty sure it mean with passion.


----------



## colony nofi

NeonMediaKJT said:


> ok, just did a quick bit of troubleshooting. I relocated the library to my other SSD. Loaded up the same mic position on each patch and played all the patches together at the same time just as before. Same clicking and popping (unusable). Then I decided to try the same thing in Reaper instead of Cubase and it runs like butter! So there is something about this library on my system that doesn't like Cubase.
> 
> Is anybody here who owns the library who uses cubase able to just try playing all the legato patches together at once through midi keyboard on mic mix 2?
> 
> Cheers!


PM me your cubase project. I have test systems I can try this out on.


----------



## colony nofi

Robo Rivard said:


> I'm not really sure what Appassionata means. Is it the same thing as "soaring"?...
> I have always been a fan of the film "Brigadoon". I remember crying as a kid watching it, because the music was "sooooo beautiful". What label would you give to the strings performance in this track?



Now I took music history 25+ years ago, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think Beethoven was one of the first to use the "Appassionata" marking on a score. On piano sonata # 25 (nope : looking it up, it was 23. Look, I was close!). Here's a lovely little bit of info on that piece.


----------



## colony nofi

colony nofi said:


> Now I took music history 25+ years ago, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think Beethoven was one of the first to use the "Appassionata" marking on a score. On piano sonata # 25 (nope : looking it up, it was 23. Look, I was close!). Here's a lovely little bit of info on that piece.



Hm. I was wrong. Beethoven didn't mark his score with it at all, but it was his publisher (and not a direct musical direction) nicknaming the piece. 

So I haven't really brought much to the conversation at all. Just a brain fart.


----------



## Robo Rivard

I guess I will figure out by myself what that "Appassionata" term refers to... Downloading! 

But with 82.4 GB of drive space for slightly more than ONE articulation, I don't see much reason to celebrate the "next generation" of Spitfire products.


----------



## storyteller

Just out of curiosity - does anyone have any Cinematic Rooms Pro presets already designed to simulate the different mic positions in Air Lyndhurst? That would be a big help for blending with other (non spitfire/dry) libraries for the missing articulations...I mean, I can set this up if no one has done it, but would rather not reinvent the wheel...

That said, I kinda like this approach with Spitfire, but I certainly hope they add a shorts/ostinato library and an advanced techniques library with the same players. This one sounds soooo good...


----------



## composerguy

I just got it and used it on this:


----------



## colony nofi

storyteller said:


> Just out of curiosity - does anyone have any Cinematic Rooms Pro presets already designed to simulate the different mic positions in Air Lyndhurst? That would be a big help for blending with other (non spitfire/dry) libraries for the missing articulations...I mean, I can set this up if no one has done it, but would rather not reinvent the wheel...
> 
> That said, I kinda like this approach with Spitfire, but I certainly hope they add a shorts/ostinato library and an advanced techniques library with the same players. This one sounds soooo good...


Hm I don't have a specific preset, but I don't find getting granular close is needed. Just similar vibe kinda works for me. Though I don't aspire for complete realism. There's so many other parts of using sample libs that mean thats not the style of workflow I want to go down, so I just embrace the nature of the "its samples not real" paradigm.

Having said that, I'd certainly have fun mucking around with such a preset if anyone makes one....


----------



## Daniel James

jazzman7 said:


> Interesting to watch. DJ seemed pretty comfortable with SAS. I noticed he did pull off some mids and lo mids and just a bit of that pesky 3k range on the hi stuff. I was also intrigued by the Waves sound shifter he used for a bit there. Think I'll demo that. I would love to learn more about the particular reasons He uses this himself, but I could see possibilities!


I mostly use the sound shifter to pitch the whole track up or down a few semitone so that I can listen to the track from a different perspective, after a while your ears start ignoring things they have heard a few times. If you pitch everything down you start hearing them again and your brain goes "oh yeah I still need to fix that shitty bit" . Once my ears are reset to the track again I switch it off.

Also sometimes I put it across my entire system audio and listen to my favorite soundtracks in different keys. It also sort of pull mixes apart in weird ways, so sometimes you can hear aspects of mixes you thought you knew inside and out, because now they are in a more audible range (particularly high instruments start appearing more when you pitch down)

It really is a useful plugin for reference. It also has its own texture when pitching down melodic and rhythmic material, it softens transients too sometimes. So good for sound design too. Definitely worth picking up I would say.

-DJ


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Damn, I'm tired. Ok, just fleshed out and finished my recent idea with SAS.
They are the only strings in this piece, but I filled it with a whole lot of stuff!

Was going for a Handel/Mozart kind of vibe, (the shorts remind me of them at least) taking advantage of the limited shorts where I could. I think it turned out pretty well? I don't know, ear fatigue and crazy neck pain. This was about 7 hours front to back


----------



## NoamL

storyteller said:


> Just out of curiosity - does anyone have any Cinematic Rooms Pro presets already designed to simulate the different mic positions in Air Lyndhurst? That would be a big help for blending with other (non spitfire/dry) libraries for the missing articulations...I mean, I can set this up if no one has done it, but would rather not reinvent the wheel...
> 
> That said, I kinda like this approach with Spitfire, but I certainly hope they add a shorts/ostinato library and an advanced techniques library with the same players. This one sounds soooo good...


There are some good presets in the Halls folder - have a listen to "Score Stage," "Spot Mic Hall," (pretty good on really dry material) "Orchestration Hall" and "Rich Medium."


----------



## NoamL

Daniel James said:


> Also sometimes I put it across my entire system audio and listen to my favorite soundtracks in different keys.


Yes!!! or even time warping to listen to a favorite piece in a slightly different tempo!


----------



## Jdiggity1

NoamL said:


> Yes!!! or even time warping to listen to a favorite piece in a slightly different tempo!


Transcribe, trrannscriibe, trrrraaaaannnnnssssccrrrriiibbbeeee.....


----------



## NoamL

Laughing my head off, it's hilarious how we came up with the same techniques independently.


----------



## storyteller

NoamL said:


> There are some good presets in the Halls folder - have a listen to "Score Stage," "Spot Mic Hall," (pretty good on really dry material) "Orchestration Hall" and "Rich Medium."


Thanks! I’ll check those out. That will be my homework for tomorrow. If nothing else, they might be a great starting point.



colony nofi said:


> Hm I don't have a specific preset, but I don't find getting granular close is needed. Just similar vibe kinda works for me. Though I don't aspire for complete realism. There's so many other parts of using sample libs that mean thats not the style of workflow I want to go down, so I just embrace the nature of the "its samples not real" paradigm.
> 
> Having said that, I'd certainly have fun mucking around with such a preset if anyone makes one....


Depending on how these go with Noam’s recommendations, this might just happen. I’ll try to share them here once I get something I’m confident in… unless someone else chimes in.


----------



## jazzman7

Daniel James said:


> I mostly use the sound shifter to pitch the whole track up or down a few semitone so that I can listen to the track from a different perspective, after a while your ears start ignoring things they have heard a few times. If you pitch everything down you start hearing them again and your brain goes "oh yeah I still need to fix that shitty bit" . Once my ears are reset to the track again I switch it off.
> 
> Also sometimes I put it across my entire system audio and listen to my favorite soundtracks in different keys. It also sort of pull mixes apart in weird ways, so sometimes you can hear aspects of mixes you thought you knew inside and out, because now they are in a more audible range (particularly high instruments start appearing more when you pitch down)
> 
> It really is a useful plugin for reference. It also has its own texture when pitching down melodic and rhythmic material, it softens transients too sometimes. So good for sound design too. Definitely worth picking up I would say.
> 
> -DJ


Appreciate the input. I already loved the way you transpose in the middle of writing. That makes for a nice reset. Regular viewer here by the way. Excellent!


----------



## jazzman7

Baronvonheadless said:


> Damn, I'm tired. Ok, just fleshed out and finished my recent idea with SAS.
> They are the only strings in this piece, but I filled it with a whole lot of stuff!
> 
> Was going for a Handel/Mozart kind of vibe, (the shorts remind me of them at least) taking advantage of the limited shorts where I could. I think it turned out pretty well? I don't know, ear fatigue and crazy neck pain. This was about 7 hours front to back



Excellent!


----------



## Brasart

ThatAdamGuy said:


> Hope y'all will forgive the slight digression, but...
> 
> One thing that's fascinated / vexed me about Spitfire libraries in particular is that *they apparently all basically require two sliders (or a slider and a mod wheel) to simultaneously massage CC1 and CC11 in live playing*; I think even Paul noted this in one of his videos. This in contrast with, say, Aaron Ventures' libraries, which seem to do fine with just a mod wheel + crafty velocity.
> 
> *Alas, my Komplete Kontrol keyboard has no sliders, just a single mod wheel.* I have enjoyed using my TEC breath + bite controller to tackle expression + vibrato and such for brass [example], but I'm loathe to rely on this breath controller for string work as you can imagine.
> 
> Should I just suck it up and buy a separate set of sliders or something like that if I want to make the most of my Spitfire libraries (AR1, EWC, etc.)?


I've never gotten used to moving 2 sliders at the same time either, even with a korg nanoKontrol2, and I really don't think you are obligated to.
What I do is record using modwheel, and sometimes adjust volumes curves on the track afterwards if I feel like it's necessary


----------



## colony nofi

Brasart said:


> I've never gotten used to moving 2 sliders at the same time either, even with a korg nanoKontrol2, and I really don't think you are obligated to.
> What I do is record using modwheel, and sometimes adjust volumes curves on the track afterwards if I feel like it's necessary


For writing with a tonne of moves, I wrote a bome script a couple of years ago that auto does the volume for me. Funnily enough, it takes another fader to scale how much it works... still two faders, but hey.
It never worked just straight copying one to another. Always needed a bit of a lag (I never did get around to making the lag tempo dependent) and for me the volume change never needed to be as extreme as mod changes. Setting it so it would go between 64-127 for mellower pieces, and 96-127 at othertimes seemed to work well. YMMV. Bome is amazing for this kind of thing.


----------



## mussnig

Regarding that CC1 + CC11 discussion: Sometimes it can happen that a particular group of samples at a particular point gives not so nice results when changing between dynamic layers via CC1 (crossfade is not smooth, weird sounds etc.). In that case you can usually do a couple of things (probably there are more of which I don't know - would be interesting to hear):

If you can edit the Kontakt patch, you might be able to change the samples' starting or loop points and see if that solves your problems (tedious task for sure and doesn't work with every library).
Layer another library.
Use only CC11 at that particular point to shape your dynamics.
I usually use option 2, 3 or a combination of both. So sometimes I will need to have CC11 not at maximum for most of the piece so that I can use it better at those points where CC1 alone isn't an option.

Another point (especially with some Spitfire Strings Patches) where CC11 can be helpful is towards the end of a phrase when CC1 isn't enough to get a desired "al niente".


----------



## Reznov981

A lot of people have been comparing this library with “Vista” “CSS” and “Soaring Strings.” The last of these I can google, but with the first I assume y’all ain’t talking about the windows operating system. What is Vista and what is CSS? I know they’re libraries, but can I get a brand name or equivalent, because I’m curious.
My finger is practically hovering over the buy button and I want to know if I’m about to do it and then immediately go “oh dang, this is apparently inferior to Vista… the windows operating system.” 😂


----------



## mussnig

Reznov981 said:


> A lot of people have been comparing this library with “Vista” “CSS” and “Soaring Strings.” The last of these I can google, but with the first I assume y’all ain’t talking about the windows operating system. What is Vista and what is CSS? I know they’re libraries, but can I get a brand name or equivalent, because I’m curious.
> My finger is practically hovering over the buy button and I want to know if I’m about to do it and then immediately go “oh dang, this is apparently inferior to Vista… the windows operating system.” 😂


Performance Samples - Vista
Cinematic Studio Strings


----------



## liquidlino

Reznov981 said:


> A lot of people have been comparing this library with “Vista” “CSS” and “Soaring Strings.” The last of these I can google, but with the first I assume y’all ain’t talking about the windows operating system. What is Vista and what is CSS? I know they’re libraries, but can I get a brand name or equivalent, because I’m curious.
> My finger is practically hovering over the buy button and I want to know if I’m about to do it and then immediately go “oh dang, this is apparently inferior to Vista… the windows operating system.” 😂


Well... my 2c on this. I only have CSS and BHCT so far in terms of things that have string bands. CSS has legato, multiple shorts, harmonics, marcarto and sustains with ADSR controls. So it's a fairly well rounded set of articulations for strings, across Violins, Violins2, Viola, Cello, Bass. BHCT the same, tons of articulations, but is an "ensemble", meaning you can't pick just violins or just violas, it's "high strings" and "low strings".

This library, Appassionata, is like CSS, but just the legato and sustains, and some extra unusual articulations like hairpins. So it's not an all rounder library on its own. But on the other hand, it's half the price (or less) than other well rounded libraries. You could round out Apassionata with some fairly cheap add ons from Spitfire, including Originals Intimate Strings and/or Originals Frozen Strings. But then you're starting to edge ever closer in combined cost to buying a full well rounded library that is all meant to go together.

Some things to think about.

And then... the grand prize. If you don't have an orchestra yet at all... EastWest orchestra just went on sale at JRR for $419. That's 940Gb of a full orchestra. Doesn't ahve the high passion level of legato of Appasionata, but... a full orchestra for just over twice the price of just strings legato alone thats in Apposionata.


----------



## RogiervG

liquidlino said:


> And then... the grand prize. If you don't have an orchestra yet at all... EastWest orchestra just went on sale at JRR for $419. That's 940Gb of a full orchestra. Doesn't ahve the high passion level of legato of Appasionata, but... a full orchestra for just over twice the price of just strings legato alone thats in Apposionata.


GB's tell not the whole story though.. i find that it's way too big for what it offers (like the sample data isn't compressed or something). 
Price is fine.. although you could also go for BBC SO (core), or even Pro (when on sale).
There are quite a bit of orchestras to choose from under 1000 bucks (normal or on sale).

@Reznov981 : Appassionata is not a generic workhorse library, as been pointed out, at least not in the playing techniques it covers. It can be a workhorse for legato use (incl hairpin options), depending on the needs. CSS is heavy on the vibrato, has good transitions for legato.. it's a specific sound, yet it includes all the fundamental (most used) playing techniques. But for a dedicated strings workhorse lib, there are many many many choices, each with it's own weaknesses and strongpoints. Being it programming, workflow, sound.. or combinations. There is no perfect library, that does everything perfect for everybody.

I have other string libraries (workhorses), and bought Appassionata strings as an extension, specifically for the soaring/expressive/appassionata play type use. (i also have soaring strings for that, but it sounds different character wise, i prefer appassionata strings more)
For 180 bucks (or 162 bucks when you have SCS and/or SSS, which i have both) it's not super cheap but also not very expensive  imho: a good legato is always welcome if the price is right 
But again, it's legato purpose only.. take that in account.


----------



## Gerbil

NoamL said:


> Yes!!! or even time warping to listen to a favorite piece in a slightly different tempo!


I've been doing that since I was a kid, putting 45rpms on 33. So many secrets were revealed. Plus it was fun getting Barry Gib to sound like Paul Robeson.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

colony nofi said:


> PM me your cubase project. I have test systems I can try this out on.


I'm actually just using an empty project with all four patches loaded to the mix 2 preset.


----------



## jbuhler

Brasart said:


> I've never gotten used to moving 2 sliders at the same time either, even with a korg nanoKontrol2, and I really don't think you are obligated to.
> What I do is record using modwheel, and sometimes adjust volumes curves on the track afterwards if I feel like it's necessary


When I don’t just draw in the automation, I usually follow this procedure myself: set cc11 at a fixed level; record modwheel along with recording the part; trim cc11 by hand as needed. Sometimes I couple cc11 and modwheel together with cc11 following the same basic curve as modwheel but only varying between, say, about 50-100%.


----------



## zwhita

Is there any way to only download the non-mix mics? Thinking I would just want CTMO, actually. I don't have 80GB of SSD space to spare on such a limited library.


----------



## Rudianos

zwhita said:


> Is there any way to only download the non-mix mics? Thinking I would just want CTMO, actually. I don't have 80GB of SSD space to spare on such a limited library.


if its anything like AR2 then no - I believe its all or nothing. One may be able to remove the files after the fact. They are labeled. But I can def see the UI getting angry with that.


----------



## ummon

zwhita said:


> Is there any way to only download the non-mix mics? Thinking I would just want CTMO, actually. I don't have 80GB of SSD space to spare on such a limited library.


It's crazy how much those mic signals take space. If there was Apassionata core with one mic signal, it'd take only about 11GB - and cost 35€


----------



## AEF

I have a mockup thread of Downton Abbey, which I started by using CSS , then Berlin, and now this is Appassionata with both libraries (one after the other) as the shorts while Appassionata carries the Legatos. I attached the original (CSS first then Berlin) too for comparison.


----------



## soulofsound

Robo Rivard said:


> I'm not really sure what Appassionata means. Is it the same thing as "soaring"?...
> I have always been a fan of the film "Brigadoon". I remember crying as a kid watching it, because the music was "sooooo beautiful". What label would you give to the strings performance in this track?



Molto vibrato ? Lovely film.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

soulofsound said:


> Molto vibrato ? Lovely film.


I'm pretty sure the background is a giant painting. Pretty amazing what they did back then.


----------



## davidson

ummon said:


> It's crazy how much those mic signals take space. If there was Apassionata core with one mic signal, it'd take only about 11GB - and cost 35€


That'd be sufficient for 98% of customers


----------



## soulofsound

AEF said:


> I have a mockup thread of Downton Abbey, which I started by using CSS , then Berlin, and now this is Appassionata with both libraries (one after the other) as the shorts while Appassionata carries the Legatos. I attached the original (CSS first then Berlin) too for comparison.


I think John Lunn would be pleased.


----------



## muziksculp

AEF said:


> I have a mockup thread of Downton Abbey, which I started by using CSS , then Berlin, and now this is Appassionata with both libraries (one after the other) as the shorts while Appassionata carries the Legatos. I attached the original (CSS first then Berlin) too for comparison.


@AEF ,

Thanks for posting this.

Appassionata Strings sound fuller, richer, more detailed, and more expressive to my ears than both CSS, and BS.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

AEF said:


> I have a mockup thread of Downton Abbey, which I started by using CSS , then Berlin, and now this is Appassionata with both libraries (one after the other) as the shorts while Appassionata carries the Legatos. I attached the original (CSS first then Berlin) too for comparison.


I feel SAS’s tone is perfect for this type of music. Well done!


----------



## AEF

I would love if Spitfire did Appassionata Sordinos Strings as well. And not just to be able to call it ASS.


----------



## RogiervG

AEF said:


> I would love if Spitfire did Appassionata Sordinos Strings as well. And not just to be able to call it ASS.


So now it's AS?


----------



## noises on

ThatAdamGuy said:


> Hope y'all will forgive the slight digression, but...
> 
> One thing that's fascinated / vexed me about Spitfire libraries in particular is that *they apparently all basically require two sliders (or a slider and a mod wheel) to simultaneously massage CC1 and CC11 in live playing*; I think even Paul noted this in one of his videos. This in contrast with, say, Aaron Ventures' libraries, which seem to do fine with just a mod wheel + crafty velocity.
> 
> *Alas, my Komplete Kontrol keyboard has no sliders, just a single mod wheel.* I have enjoyed using my TEC breath + bite controller to tackle expression + vibrato and such for brass [example], but I'm loathe to rely on this breath controller for string work as you can imagine.
> 
> Should I just suck it up and buy a separate set of sliders or something like that if I want to make the most of my Spitfire libraries (AR1, EWC, etc.)?


Very interested in this topic. I use a Yamaha EX5 (20 years old now) as my controller. It has 2 modwheels next to one another.....definitely makes for smoother (simultaneous) control of two parameters. It also has a breath controller for use with BC mouth piece which with a little practice does make control of string patches quite realistic. Not sure what scope there is with the TEC to adjust settings to work better with strings as apposed to wind instruments. But worth an attempt at tweaking thresholds etc to make for a more ergo playing experience.


----------



## MusicStudent

Newbee question folks. Does this do short staccato phrases? Or maybe the question is better put ".. what does "hairpin" mean?.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

I actually love Appassionata. The legatos sound super natural and you can be extremely expressive with it if you use the modwheel just right. I've been using CSS since 2016 and I'm gonna be using Appassionata, hopefully. Just wish I could use it.


----------



## rrichard63

MusicStudent said:


> Does this do short staccato phrases. It that what "hairpin" means?


I don't think so. The hairpin symbols (< and >) indicate changes in volume -- crescendo and de-crescendo respectively. Apparently, though, there's some history behind this. In older scores the same symbol could mean to change the tempo. I don't know who or what caused the change of meaning. Are there any music historians lurking here?


----------



## RogiervG

MusicStudent said:


> Newbee question folks. Does this do short staccato phrases? Or maybe the question is better put ".. what does "hairpin" mean?.


'Hairpin' is (as i've learned it) very simply put the crescendo and decrescendo flow control. e.g. m > F > pp
It says nothing about the articulation/bowing technique in play. Although a too short articulation won't have a noticable effect.


----------



## MusicStudent

Thanks guys, that helped. So this term deals with dynamics (crescendo, diminuendo). Got it now. Therefore SAS is restricted to legato play. So for a first string library investment should I be looking for something more comprehensive/flexible? Or is this the way to go.


----------



## Batrawi

RogiervG said:


> So now it's AS?


that's half ASS


----------



## muziksculp

Batrawi said:


> that's half ASS


Left or Right side ?


----------



## Batrawi

MusicStudent said:


> Thanks guys, that helped. So this term deals with dynamics (crescendo, diminuendo). Got it now. Therefore SAS is restricted to legato play. So for a first string library investment should I be looking for something more comprehensive/flexible? Or is this the way to go.


For someone like me who's compositions are mainly around lyrical melodic lines, I would consider SAS a workhorse library. Especially that it's even equipped with those short notes that are designed to fit between those melodic lines, so it's more than enough in this case, especially with that intro price its a steal!


----------



## jbuhler

MusicStudent said:


> Newbee question folks. Does this do short staccato phrases? Or maybe the question is better put ".. what does "hairpin" mean?.


The glancing attack is the closest to a staccato. Hairpin short is a bit more rounded but can be used for a bit of a bouncing staccato effect. Hairpin medium can be used as a marcato-like effect, if you start with a high enough setting on the modwheel and then pull it down some right after the attack. 

The hairpins in this library don't have a lot of arc built into them, but they do produce what might be called a rounded shape. Or you might say that the attack is on the long side for a short, a bit like an OT portato. But you can overcome that attack with the modwheel and then get the hairpin to behave a bit more like staccato with a less sharp attack than the glancing attack. 

The forte of this library is not shorts obviously, but these will generally get you through if you have a smattering of staccatos in your broader tune.


----------



## tc9000

I like these a lot. Simple arc noodling - outriggers only + gullfoss:

EDIT - warning - it gets a lot louder around 30 seconds in.


----------



## Batrawi

tc9000 said:


> I like these a lot. Simple arc noodling - outriggers only + gullfoss:
> 
> EDIT - warning - it gets a lot louder around 30 seconds in.


is that with legato or sustains patch?


----------



## tc9000

Batrawi said:


> is that with legato or sustains patch?


This is all the default legato. I wrote arcs in with simple curves (a bit clumisly  ) on CC1 and 11.

Ha - you are right though - im barely using the legato hehe


----------



## Batrawi

tc9000 said:


> This is all the default legato. I wrote arcs in with simple curves (a bit clumisly  ) on CC1 and 11.
> 
> Ha - you are right though - im barely using the legato hehe


I asked coz that would be REALLY impressive to acheive with just the legato patch which -to my understanding- only has 3 dynamics vs 5 in the sustains. Now I'm not exaggerating if I say that this is the most natural sounding strings I've heard in the sampling world... really hats off to SF!


----------



## jbuhler

Batrawi said:


> I asked coz that would be REALLY impressive to acheive with just the legato patch which -to my understanding- only has 3 dynamics vs 5 in the sustains. Now I'm not exaggerating if I say that this is the most natural sounding strings I've heard in the sampling world... really hats off to SF!


I don’t think this is right. When you hold down a legato note, there are 5 voices sounding per loaded mic once the legato samples run their course. That suggests to me that the sustain portion of the legatos has 5 dynamic layers since there are not different vib samples. I think there are three dynamic layers for the legato transition. 

So for legato when you press down a note when no other note is sounding you get first 10 voices, before it settles on 5. Likewise if you end the note it goes first to 7 voices then to 2, presumable the 2 additional voices are loud and soft release tail samples. 

When you play a legato interval after the original note settles to 5 voices it goes briefly to 15 voices then longer to 10 then to 8 before finally settling at 5. And it takes several seconds for this to settle out. 

For sustain the behavior is similar except the 2 voices of the release tails are triggered on each note off. 

My conclusion is that note attack and sustain both have 5 dynamic layers. Legato interval has 3 dynamic layers. And the release tail has 2 dynamic layers.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

liquidlino said:


> How about Spitfire Appassionata Sordinos Strings Yearning - SASSY.


+1 to this! Maybe they'll do a sord edition, or even a simulated sord setting in a future update.


----------



## Jack Weaver

Ya know... since it's called Appassionata, I was a bit worried that it could only handle long, slow, arcing phrases, and that it was unlikely to handle faster, more agile stuff. So I put it to the test with some fast phrases and at every part of its range and volume level. 

Here's a very short example (_40 secs. of Vln 1 with only the Mix 1 mic and no fx whatsoever_) of what I could get it to do: the legato is the _Legato Slurred_ articulation and the handful of short notes are actually _Hairpin Shorts_ in which I hand-edited the lengths of the MIDI notes to get the effect I was looking for.

.


----------



## AEF

After more playing with SAS, there are two things I would criticize:

1) there is a difference in the amount of reverberation between the different articulations. This is a common issue with other libraries such as CSS.

2) the sustains patches have more vibrato, and I would prefer the opposite where the Legatos are more molto and the sustains are more reserved.

Other than that I am really REALLY liking this.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

jbuhler said:


> I don’t think this is right. When you hold down a legato note, there are 5 voices sounding per loaded mic once the legato samples run their course. That suggests to me that the sustain portion of the legatos has 5 dynamic layers since there are not different vib samples. I think there are three dynamic layers for the legato transition.
> 
> So for legato when you press down a note when no other note is sounding you get first 10 voices, before it settles on 5. Likewise if you end the note it goes first to 7 voices then to 2, presumable the 2 additional voices are loud and soft release tail samples.
> 
> When you play a legato interval after the original note settles to 5 voices it goes briefly to 15 voices then longer to 10 then to 8 before finally settling at 5. And it takes several seconds for this to settle out.
> 
> For sustain the behavior is similar except the 2 voices of the release tails are triggered on each note off.
> 
> My conclusion is that note attack and sustain both have 5 dynamic layers. Legato interval has 3 dynamic layers. And the release tail has 2 dynamic layers.


This is right - I tried to explain this earlier in this thread, but the person kept arguing without understanding. You've explained it well!


----------



## jbuhler

Jack Weaver said:


> Ya know... since it's called Appassionata, I was a bit worried that it could only handle long, slow, arcing phrases, and that it was unlikely to handle faster, more agile stuff. So I put it to the test with some fast phrases and at every part of its range and volume level.
> 
> Here's a very short example (_40 secs. of Vln 1 with only the Mix 1 mic and no fx whatsoever_) of what I could get it to do: the legato is the _Legato Slurred_ articulation and the handful of short notes are actually _Hairpin Shorts_ in which I hand-edited the lengths of the MIDI notes to get the effect I was looking for.
> 
> .


Yes, I've generally been pleased with SAS at fast tempos, though the runs can seem a bit clinical. The arpeggios seem better. I've found short hairpin an excellent and very useful articulation once I got the hang of it. On the other hand playing fast passages with legato puts a real hit on my CPU. Given the CPU hit, I'm wondering if the instrument is doing some sample stretching to make the legato more adaptive depending on playing speed. The only sample instruments I have that behave like this with respect to CPU are tempo synced patches that use time machine in Kontakt or things like Symphonic Motions in the SF Player. This isn't quite as bad as those, but I have a 2020 i9 iMac, so it's rare that I have CPU issues at all.


----------



## Reznov981

liquidlino said:


> Well... my 2c on this. I only have CSS and BHCT so far in terms of things that have string bands. CSS has legato, multiple shorts, harmonics, marcarto and sustains with ADSR controls. So it's a fairly well rounded set of articulations for strings, across Violins, Violins2, Viola, Cello, Bass. BHCT the same, tons of articulations, but is an "ensemble", meaning you can't pick just violins or just violas, it's "high strings" and "low strings".
> 
> This library, Appassionata, is like CSS, but just the legato and sustains, and some extra unusual articulations like hairpins. So it's not an all rounder library on its own. But on the other hand, it's half the price (or less) than other well rounded libraries. You could round out Apassionata with some fairly cheap add ons from Spitfire, including Originals Intimate Strings and/or Originals Frozen Strings. But then you're starting to edge ever closer in combined cost to buying a full well rounded library that is all meant to go together.
> 
> Some things to think about.
> 
> And then... the grand prize. If you don't have an orchestra yet at all... EastWest orchestra just went on sale at JRR for $419. That's 940Gb of a full orchestra. Doesn't ahve the high passion level of legato of Appasionata, but... a full orchestra for just over twice the price of just strings legato alone thats in Apposionata.


Thank you for the detailed response, I always appreciate that a lot! And thanks to you too @RogiervG! 
I probably misled a little bit by accident in that I currently have BBC pro, so I’m only looking for high quality legatos and not a full set of articulations. For THAT purpose, which I wasn’t great at specifying (sorry oops) I was wondering if Appassionata is not as great as other options (at similar price marks).

What Rogier has said does give me an inkling that Spitfire’s Appassionata is good enough that it’s only a matter of taste between it and it’s competitors, rather than a clear difference in sample/transition quality. 
So thanks again guys, both of you! I think I might pull the trigger here 😅


----------



## Karma

jbuhler said:


> I'm wondering if the instrument is doing some sample stretching to make the legato more adaptive depending on playing speed


Oh no certainly not. Though it is a lot of dynamics and intervals triggering!


----------



## Reznov981

davidson said:


> That'd be sufficient for 98% of customers


I have to agree, but I guess I can somewhat empathise with Spitfire trying to get their money’s worth for the work they put in? I say this in complete ignorance of exactly how many hours go into making a library, or even the ballpark 😂
And I suppose there’s something to be said for establishing/maintaining your reputation as the place for superior samples AND quality mic positions. Possessing that kind of status would attract the bigger spenders. 

That’s just my totally unsolicited 2 cents of rambling for you 😛


----------



## jbuhler

Karma said:


> Oh no certainly not. Though it is a lot of dynamics and intervals triggering!


Any idea why the CPU is going so nuts when I play legatos at fast tempo? As I said, I have a 2020 i9 iMac, and the only libraries that challenge it in this manner are things like Symphonic Motions that have to tempo sync.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

jbuhler said:


> Any idea why the CPU is going so nuts when I play legatos at fast tempo? As I said, I have a 2020 i9 iMac, and the only libraries that challenge it in this manner are things like Symphonic Motions that have to tempo sync.


Are you using Mix 2? That seems to be giving me most issues with Cubase. I've had to stretch my buffer size to 2016


----------



## Reznov981

Karma said:


> Oh no certainly not. Though it is a lot of dynamics and intervals triggering!


Are you actually from SA? 😱
If what you said is true (and I believe you lol) how does one procure transitions of different lengths, to match different tempos or feels and emotions, almost like a… transition tenuto 😂


----------



## MusicStudent

Jack Weaver said:


> Ya know... since it's called Appassionata, I was a bit worried that it could only handle long, slow, arcing phrases, and that it was unlikely to handle faster, more agile stuff. So I put it to the test with some fast phrases and at every part of its range and volume level.
> 
> Here's a very short example (_40 secs. of Vln 1 with only the Mix 1 mic and no fx whatsoever_) of what I could get it to do: the legato is the _Legato Slurred_ articulation and the handful of short notes are actually _Hairpin Shorts_ in which I hand-edited the lengths of the MIDI notes to get the effect I was looking for.
> 
> .


That sold it for me. thanks for this excellent and unique demo.


----------



## Karma

jbuhler said:


> Any idea why the CPU is going so nuts when I play legatos at fast tempo? As I said, I have a 2020 i9 iMac, and the only libraries that challenge it in this manner are things like Symphonic Motions that have to tempo sync.


I mean it'd be triggering voices a lot quicker, but in truth the programming is as streamlined as possible in Appassionata, so I'd suggest playing around with some different preloads in settings etc too!



Reznov981 said:


> Are you actually from SA? 😱
> If what you said is true (and I believe you lol) how does one procure transitions of different lengths, to match different tempos or feels and emotions, almost like a… transition tenuto 😂


Ha, I'm not sure what you specifically mean - are you asking how we'd record it? Afraid we can't give much away about the process itself!


----------



## jbuhler

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Are you using Mix 2? That seems to be giving me most issues with Cubase. I've had to stretch my buffer size to 2016


The CPU spike happens whatever mics I use. But it only becomes critical to the point of getting pops and clicks if I have 4 or more mics open. So none of the mixes is giving me an issue. And changing to Relaxed dynamic smoothing seems to take a bit of pressure off the CPU as well. 

It also only happens at very fast tempos—say running sixteenth notes in excess of 150 bpm. At tempos lyrical playing is usually happening at, it's no issue whatever I throw at it. CPU rarely exceeds 10%



Karma said:


> I mean it'd be triggering voices a lot quicker, but in truth the programming is as streamlined as possible in Appassionata, so I'd suggest playing around with some different preloads in settings etc too!


Doubling the preload buffer does seem to help. Interesting that this is manifesting as a CPU problem rather than a disk I/O problem. Will have to do some further tests.


----------



## Trevor Meier

For anyone like me who uses multi-outs, looks like there’s a bug in Appassionata where turning off the global mix and assigning outputs to articulations doesn’t stick. Filed a bug report, but if you experience this it might be worth sending a report in as well.


----------



## muziksculp

Jack Weaver said:


> Ya know... since it's called Appassionata, I was a bit worried that it could only handle long, slow, arcing phrases, and that it was unlikely to handle faster, more agile stuff. So I put it to the test with some fast phrases and at every part of its range and volume level.
> 
> Here's a very short example (_40 secs. of Vln 1 with only the Mix 1 mic and no fx whatsoever_) of what I could get it to do: the legato is the _Legato Slurred_ articulation and the handful of short notes are actually _Hairpin Shorts_ in which I hand-edited the lengths of the MIDI notes to get the effect I was looking for.
> 
> .


@Jack Weaver ,

Wow ! I'm glad you posted this, I was under the impression that SAS is not suitable for producing such agile, and fast phrases. Now I know better. 

Q. Are you layering the short notes with the Legato Slurred articulation ? or just switching the articulations on one track from the various shorts to the legato slurred ? 

Thanks


----------



## Larry Dickstein

Do these samples have more direct presence and ability to cut through a mix better than the SSS library recorded in the same studio?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

jbuhler said:


> The CPU spike happens whatever mics I use. But it only becomes critical to the point of getting pops and clicks if I have 4 or more mics open. So none of the mixes is giving me an issue. And changing to Relaxed dynamic smoothing seems to take a bit of pressure off the CPU as well.
> 
> It also only happens at very fast tempos—say running sixteenth notes in excess of 150 bpm. At tempos lyrical playing is usually happening at, it's no issue whatever I throw at it. CPU rarely exceeds 10%
> 
> 
> Doubling the preload buffer does seem to help. Interesting that this is manifesting as a CPU problem rather than a disk I/O problem. Will have to do some further tests.


I tried this in Logic and Cubase on my i9 iMac and once you start enabling more mics and you have a lot of notes happening almost concurrently, the voice count, naturally, goes up significantly - like I can hit 450, almost 500 voices when running 16th notes at 160bpm. I don't think this is unexpected to stress the CPU. You could change the max voice limit in the plugin if you want (default is 512 I believe).


----------



## Murphy

tc9000 said:


> I like these a lot. Simple arc noodling - outriggers only + gullfoss:
> 
> EDIT - warning - it gets a lot louder around 30 seconds in.





MusicStudent said:


> That sold it for me. thanks for this excellent and unique demo.


Yes, this example sold it for me too. Excellent example. Thank you for creating a passage that sounded very realistic.


----------



## Jack Weaver

muziksculp said:


> @Jack Weaver ,
> 
> Wow ! I'm glad you posted this, I was under the impression that SAS is not suitable for producing such agile, and fast phrases. Now I know better.
> 
> Q. Are you layering the short notes with the Legato Slurred articulation ? or just switching the articulations on one track from the various shorts to the legato slurred ?
> 
> Thanks


I was simply going between articulations. No layering. 

.


----------



## muziksculp

Jack Weaver said:


> I was simply going between articulations. No layering.
> 
> .


Thank You for the helpful feedback 

They fit very nicely together with the legato. Spitfire Audio did a wonderful job with this library.


----------



## AMBi

Phew.. this thread has made the decision all the harder since I’ve loved a lot of the examples here!

Was pretty much set on getting it since the intro price + extra discount feels impossible to pass up

But having just got SCS and TSS last month I think I’ll feel too guilty getting it, so I’ll try to be responsible with my money for once since I don’t feel I’ve spent enough time with those yet to make another string library purchase for now.

I’m thankful it’s full price is still an excellent value so once the urge comes around again in a few months I’ll be as excited as ever to pick it up!


----------



## molemac

soulofsound said:


> I think John Lunn would be pleased.


He was very pleased when I recorded a version of the Downton song . Strings and horns recorded at Air . Appassionata for real ie not the sampled version but same lineup .https://open.spotify.com/track/17Xgh317sgctJKOdcZyRj9?si=zksCpEEOT6OtecUGFPSrDw


----------



## jbuhler

AMBi said:


> Phew.. this thread has made the decision all the harder since I’ve loved a lot of the examples here!
> 
> Was pretty much set on getting it since the intro price + extra discount feels impossible to pass up
> 
> But having just got SCS and TSS last month I think I’ll feel too guilty getting it, so I’ll try to be responsible with my money for once since I don’t feel I’ve spent enough time with those yet to make another string library purchase for now.
> 
> I’m thankful it’s full price is still an excellent value so once the urge comes around again in a few months I’ll be as excited as ever to pick it up!


It will be available on sale again soon enough and SCS and TSS are great libraries to keep you busy!


----------



## CT

AEF said:


> 1) there is a difference in the amount of reverberation between the different articulations. This is a common issue with other libraries such as CSS.


This is not too surprising. Certain gestures will excite the room more. Rather soft, long playing is not going to include a great big bloomin' reverb tail.



AEF said:


> 2) the sustains patches have more vibrato, and I would prefer the opposite where the Legatos are more molto and the sustains are more reserved.


I'm not sure how this could be, as the sustain samples in both patches are the same....


----------



## Jdiggity1

AEF said:


> 2) the sustains patches have more vibrato, and I would prefer the opposite where the Legatos are more molto and the sustains are more reserved.





Michaelt said:


> I'm not sure how this could be, as the sustain samples in both patches are the same....


Interesting observation AEF.
I imagine that would be due to the legato patch using the round robin attacks (hairpins) stitched at the front of each note, so you're not getting the full intensity of the sustain until the hairpin has fully cross-faded out.
I guess that could be a neat tip for anybody wanting a little more vib at the beginning of the note - try the sustain instead.

EDIT: Never mind. I believe the hairpin attacks are part of the sustain patch too. The case of your variable vibrato remains open and mysterious


----------



## Igorianych

Robo Rivard said:


> I'm not really sure what Appassionata means. Is it the same thing as "soaring"?...
> I have always been a fan of the film "Brigadoon". I remember crying as a kid watching it, because the music was "sooooo beautiful". What label would you give to the strings performance in this track?



I think it sounds closer to Vista


----------



## Inventio

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I'm pretty sure it mean with passion.


I confirm!

At least that's what the term means in Italian...


----------



## Inventio

Daniel James said:


> I mostly use the sound shifter to pitch the whole track up or down a few semitone so that I can listen to the track from a different perspective, after a while your ears start ignoring things they have heard a few times. If you pitch everything down you start hearing them again and your brain goes "oh yeah I still need to fix that shitty bit" . Once my ears are reset to the track again I switch it off.
> 
> Also sometimes I put it across my entire system audio and listen to my favorite soundtracks in different keys. It also sort of pull mixes apart in weird ways, so sometimes you can hear aspects of mixes you thought you knew inside and out, because now they are in a more audible range (particularly high instruments start appearing more when you pitch down)
> 
> It really is a useful plugin for reference. It also has its own texture when pitching down melodic and rhythmic material, it softens transients too sometimes. So good for sound design too. Definitely worth picking up I would say.
> 
> -DJ


Hi Daniel,

I was surprised to see that Appasionata Strings react decently well to faster lines, like arpeggios as was the case of your piece. Not perfect, not like real runs but better than I expected. 

Cheers


----------



## Inventio

Batrawi said:


> that's half ASS


Isn't half ASS for divisi...?


----------



## jbuhler

Jdiggity1 said:


> Interesting observation AEF.
> I imagine that would be due to the legato patch using the round robin attacks (hairpins) stitched at the front of each note, so you're not getting the full intensity of the sustain until the hairpin has fully cross-faded out.
> I guess that could be a neat tip for anybody wanting a little more vib at the beginning of the note - try the sustain instead.
> 
> EDIT: Never mind. I believe the hairpin attacks are part of the sustain patch too. The case of your variable vibrato remains open and mysterious


@Karma said there’s no stretching going on with legato. But there is the legato interval itself and so the way it is being crossfades into the sustain is likely affecting the impression of the vibrato.


----------



## Fry777

@Karma I'd be curious to know the design decision behind the chosen section size, since it doesn't line up exactly with any other SFA string Air library. Was it chosen deliberately as a compromise between chamber and symphonic, in order to make Appassionata easily "blendable" with most of your Air string libs, or is there more to it than that ?
(not that these is anything wrong with the chosen size, don't get me wrong )


----------



## 2112

Fry777 said:


> @Karmait doesn't line up exactly with any other SFA string Air library.


The section sizes are the same as SStS and close enough to Intimate Strings.


----------



## Karma

Fry777 said:


> @Karma I'd be curious to know the design decision behind the chosen section size, since it doesn't line up exactly with any other SFA string Air library. Was it chosen deliberately as a compromise between chamber and symphonic, in order to make Appassionata easily "blendable" with most of your Air string libs, or is there more to it than that ?
> (not that these is anything wrong with the chosen size, don't get me wrong )


Certainly an intentional decision by Paul. I personally find it to be a healthy balance between the 2, it can sound pretty big but you can also hear a lot of individual detail which is great for samples.


----------



## Fry777

Karma said:


> Certainly an intentional decision by Paul. I personally find it to be a healthy balance between the 2, it can sound pretty big but you can also hear a lot of individual detail which is great for samples.


It indeed seems to be a good section size in relation to what the lib is aiming for!


2112 said:


> The section sizes are the same as SStS and close enough to Intimate Strings.


I'm aware there's a couple of Air Hall libs that are/could be made close to that size (and would be impossible to distinguish in a mix), I was just curious about the design decision on picking THIS size in particular...

... or maybe I was fishing for info about an hypothetical future lineup based on this section size and recorded in Air Studios, who knows


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Fry777 said:


> @Karma I'd be curious to know the design decision behind the chosen section size, since it doesn't line up exactly with any other SFA string Air library. Was it chosen deliberately as a compromise between chamber and symphonic, in order to make Appassionata easily "blendable" with most of your Air string libs, or is there more to it than that ?
> (not that these is anything wrong with the chosen size, don't get me wrong )


It is kind of the perfect size to enhance both SCS and SSS in a way. Small enough to act as divisi with SSS and bigger/fuller to carry the melody when SCS is just to small for this task. That's how i look at it anyway...


----------



## Jack Weaver

Spitfire should be popping champagne corks. Appassionata shows that they have definitely moved forward in the development of their legato techniques.

It seems that they may now move forward with a whole new generation of what is their true calling - string ensemble products.

The recording costs of the relative conservative size of the Appassionata ensemble allowed them sufficient time to experiment in a hall they know very well – all without breaking the bank on an experimental recording (and editing) procedure.

Now they can create an entire new product roadmap based upon this success. They can produce a whole string product based on the Appassionata-sized ensemble using this legato technique - with a full set of articulations, possibly divisi, runs builder, etc. Then they can use the knowledge learned from that whole set and create a bevy of differing ensemble-sized libraries. Then they can use differing studios/sound stages for all of these same ensemble sizes.

So they can do what they’re known for and best at – and sell all of us the next generation of what we all bought from them in the first place.

Hopefully, they will work on the GUI of their player as this process goes on.

Congrats Spitfire.

.


----------



## muziksculp

Jack Weaver said:


> Spitfire should be popping champagne corks. Appassionata shows that they have definitely moved forward in the development of their legato techniques.
> 
> It seems that they may now move forward with a whole new generation of what is their true calling - string ensemble products.
> 
> The recording costs of the relative conservative size of the Appassionata ensemble allowed them sufficient time to experiment in a hall they know very well – all without breaking the bank on an experimental recording (and editing) procedure.
> 
> Now they can create an entire new product roadmap based upon this success. They can produce a whole string product based on the Appassionata-sized ensemble using this legato technique - with a full set of articulations, possibly divisi, runs builder, etc. Then they can use the knowledge learned from that whole set and create a bevy of differing ensemble-sized libraries. Then they can use differing studios/sound stages for all of these same ensemble sizes.
> 
> So they can do what they’re known for and best at – and sell all of us the next generation of what we all bought from them in the first place.
> 
> Hopefully, they will work on the GUI of their player as this process goes on.
> 
> Congrats Spitfire.
> 
> .


@Jack Weaver ,

Yes, surely Spitfire Audio have a winner on their hands with Appassionata Strings, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes one their best selling strings libraries !

I also wouldn't be very surprised if they plan to implement this new 'Impulse Legato' technique into their upcoming Abbey Road One Modular Orchestra. Which will be Totally Awesome. 

AR-1 Modular Orchestra is the most exciting release for me this year.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## dylanmixer

Ugh, I'm going to have to get this one, aren't I.


----------



## muziksculp

dylanmixer said:


> Ugh, I'm going to have to get this one, aren't I.


Yes, and There are only a few of them left, hurry up before they are compeltely sold out.


----------



## MelodicAdagio

I finally got a chance to play around with Appassionata Strings a little. I kind of hesitate to post anything here, but here's a quick noodle with it. It's just the default Mix 1, which is described as a cinematic mix. I made liberal use of CC1 and CC11 but didn't do anything at all fancy. I'm still trying to learn how to use the library.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jack Weaver said:


> Spitfire should be popping champagne corks. Appassionata shows that they have definitely moved forward in the development of their legato techniques.
> 
> It seems that they may now move forward with a whole new generation of what is their true calling - string ensemble products.
> 
> The recording costs of the relative conservative size of the Appassionata ensemble allowed them sufficient time to experiment in a hall they know very well – all without breaking the bank on an experimental recording (and editing) procedure.
> 
> Now they can create an entire new product roadmap based upon this success. They can produce a whole string product based on the Appassionata-sized ensemble using this legato technique - with a full set of articulations, possibly divisi, runs builder, etc. Then they can use the knowledge learned from that whole set and create a bevy of differing ensemble-sized libraries. Then they can use differing studios/sound stages for all of these same ensemble sizes.
> 
> So they can do what they’re known for and best at – and sell all of us the next generation of what we all bought from them in the first place.
> 
> Hopefully, they will work on the GUI of their player as this process goes on.
> 
> Congrats Spitfire.
> 
> .


Including shorts by the same ensemble, special techniques by the same ensemble, solo instruments…and eventually, they’ll have sold us 1k worth of the same strings. Genius.


----------



## MusicStudent

MelodicAdagio said:


> I finally got a chance to play around with Appassionata Strings a little. I kind of hesitate to post anything here, but here's a quick noodle with it. It's just the default Mix 1, which is described as a cinematic mix. I made liberal use of CC1 and CC11 but didn't do anything at all fancy. I'm still trying to learn how to use the library.


You are well on your way. Nice job...


----------



## Jack Weaver

NYC Composer said:


> Including shorts by the same ensemble, special techniques by the same ensemble, solo instruments…and eventually, they’ll have sold us 1k worth of the same strings. Genius.


Exactly. 

Job well done Spitfire. Both your customers and ownership group thank you. 

.


----------



## toneage

I wonder how well they would perform together with Abbey Road Two? I'm quite satisfied with the strings from Abbey Road Two and don't need SCS or SSS. I know that the libs are sampled in different rooms but still any opinion on how they would perform together is welcome, those legatos sound astonishing!


----------



## artomatic

toneage said:


> I wonder how well they would perform together with Abbey Road Two? I'm quite satisfied with the strings from Abbey Road Two and don't need SCS or SSS. I know that the libs are sampled in different rooms but still any opinion on how they would perform together is welcome, those legatos sound astonishing!



I was just testing the AR2 and SAS combo yesterday.

View attachment AR2 and SAS.mp3


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

artomatic said:


> I was just testing the AR2 and SAS combo yesterday!
> 
> View attachment AR2 and SAS.mp3


Not sure what's going on there, but the transitions between notes (around 0:04) have that "sucking" effect. Did you you use the legato patches?


----------



## muziksculp

artomatic said:


> I was just testing the AR2 and SAS combo yesterday!
> 
> View attachment AR2 and SAS.mp3


They sound wonderful together. Thanks for sharing this.


----------



## artomatic

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Not sure what's going on there, but the transitions between notes (around 0:04) have that "sucking" effect. Did you you use the legato patches?


Yes, legato for the most part.
I purposely did not connect the notes that may have sounded, as you described, by using the hairpin patches instead.


----------



## toneage

artomatic said:


> I was just testing the AR2 and SAS combo yesterday.
> 
> View attachment AR2 and SAS.mp3



thank you very much! Just bought it


----------



## Baronvonheadless

MelodicAdagio said:


> I finally got a chance to play around with Appassionata Strings a little. I kind of hesitate to post anything here, but here's a quick noodle with it. It's just the default Mix 1, which is described as a cinematic mix. I made liberal use of CC1 and CC11 but didn't do anything at all fancy. I'm still trying to learn how to use the library.


Nice! Above all else, just enjoy the library and enjoy creating! Sounds good, keep at it.
No need to hesitate! 
Worst that can happen is everyone praises you one day and then the next everyone says your mock up is trash 

I should know.


----------



## cornelisjordaan

Bonus thing I just noticed - Studio One builds the Sound Variations set automatically for you with this one, just like the VSL libraries... noice! I didn't see it talked about anywhere, so it was a nice little surprise when I sat down to quickly build them only to see that it was already done for me.


----------



## easyrider

cornelisjordaan said:


> Bonus thing I just noticed - Studio One builds the Sound Variations set automatically for you with this one, just like the VSL libraries... noice! I didn't see it talked about anywhere, so it was a nice little surprise when I sat down to quickly build them only to see that it was already done for me.


@Lukas is this a thing ?


----------



## Baronvonheadless

A new Test!

So not an AIR recording obviously, but at the moment, I really like how SAS sounds with Performance Samples free Violin shorts demo!

Very Nice!
View attachment Performance Short_SAS legato test.mp3

Hive mind thoughts?


----------



## muziksculp

cornelisjordaan said:


> Bonus thing I just noticed - Studio One builds the Sound Variations set automatically for you with this one, just like the VSL libraries... noice! I didn't see it talked about anywhere, so it was a nice little surprise when I sat down to quickly build them only to see that it was already done for me.


Really ? That would be awesome.

So, did Spitfire Audio implement Studio One Pro 5 Sound-Variations just like VSL Synchron Player, and EW Opus Player do ?

If Yes, it should work with all their Spitfire Player libraries, i.e. BBCSO Pro, AR-2 IS, ..etc.

A bit odd that Spitfire Audio didn't announce this important new feature.

Thanks for the heads up. 

Hopefully OT's SINE Player will be next to implement Sound-Variations.


----------



## MelodicAdagio

dylanmixer said:


> Ugh, I'm going to have to get this one, aren't I.


Yes, you are.  Fortunately it's inexpensive.


----------



## sundrowned

cornelisjordaan said:


> Bonus thing I just noticed - Studio One builds the Sound Variations set automatically for you with this one, just like the VSL libraries... noice! I didn't see it talked about anywhere, so it was a nice little surprise when I sat down to quickly build them only to see that it was already done for me.


But only in the vst2 version, not the vst 3 one it seems.


----------



## jadedsean

Not sure if this is known here but, i read recently the Spitfire player is non multitimbral. However, i just found this today for anyone that doesn't know. Also, it is well worth subscribing to this channel as they give plenty of good tips for Spitfire users.



Also, Paul just put this up too.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

Jack Weaver said:


> Ya know... since it's called Appassionata, I was a bit worried that it could only handle long, slow, arcing phrases, and that it was unlikely to handle faster, more agile stuff. So I put it to the test with some fast phrases and at every part of its range and volume level.
> 
> Here's a very short example (_40 secs. of Vln 1 with only the Mix 1 mic and no fx whatsoever_) of what I could get it to do: the legato is the _Legato Slurred_ articulation and the handful of short notes are actually _Hairpin Shorts_ in which I hand-edited the lengths of the MIDI notes to get the effect I was looking for.
> 
> .


Q: Short notes ~0:12.... is the note release setting set higher than normal or is that the unaffected short note sample? Also appears to be a "pulse" or "bump" at 0:29, and at 0:08.


----------



## Jack Weaver

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Q: Short notes ~0:12.... is the note release setting set higher than normal or is that the unaffected short note sample? Also appears to be a "pulse" or "bump" at 0:29, and at 0:08.


Yeah, totally aware of those pulses while doing it. I was only cranking out a fast note demo for proof of concept purposes, not creating a magnum opus. 

Just had a colonoscopy today. Wasn’t expecting a second one. (Insert proper passive aggressive sarcasm emoji).

.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

Jack Weaver said:


> Yeah, totally aware of those pulses while doing it. I was only cranking out a fast note demo for proof of concept purposes, not creating a magnum opus.
> 
> Just had a colonoscopy today. Wasn’t expecting a second one. (Insert proper passive aggressive sarcasm emoji).
> 
> .


Sure... but are those things that can be fixed or are they inherent?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Jack Weaver said:


> Just had a colonoscopy today. Wasn’t expecting a second one. (Insert proper passive aggressive sarcasm emoji).


----------



## Jack Weaver

Henrik B. Jensen said:


>


Actually… I do have pics. Butt if I sent them you’d never look at me the same way. 
I don’t want to be thought of as an asshole. LOL

.


----------



## mussnig

sundrowned said:


> But only in the vst2 version, not the vst 3 one it seems.


That's a bit strange considering that Studio One automatically unlists the VST2 version in case there is a VST3 version available. So this is also working with BBCSO now? So you are telling me, that creating the Sound Variations by hand was not necessary 😐


----------



## Jack Weaver

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Sure... but are those things that can be fixed or are they inherent?


No, it was just some MIDI slop on my part. 

I might recommend you breaking loose $168.25 and have it on hand in your template. It’s a lot more luxurious and smooth sounding legato than I can get from Synchron Elite or Pro, for example. And I’ve spent a lot of time with both of those. Smoother than Afflatus. I don’t like Vista. 

Apologies for getting a little sparky on my last reply. As someone said very recently, ‘It’s not personal, Pal.’

.


----------



## Casiquire

Well it's been a few days and I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around this library. I feel like it's really just their way of doing SCS again but with better legato. It's called Appassionata but doesn't sound particularly passionate and expressive to me by comparison. There are some demos where i prefer it over others but more often than not i feel like it isn't offering anything special. Am i missing anything?


----------



## Zanshin

Casiquire said:


> Well it's been a few days and I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around this library. I feel like it's really just their way of doing SCS again but with better legato. It's called Appassionata but doesn't sound particularly passionate and expressive to me by comparison. There are some demos where i prefer it over others but more often than not i feel like it isn't offering anything special. Am i missing anything?


You have successfully fought off GAS for the billionth time (yes I am jealous of your fortitude!!).


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Casiquire said:


> Well it's been a few days and I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around this library. I feel like it's really just their way of doing SCS again but with better legato. It's called Appassionata but doesn't sound particularly passionate and expressive to me by comparison. There are some demos where i prefer it over others but more often than not i feel like it isn't offering anything special. Am i missing anything?


You’re not missing anything if those are your opinions on the demos. If you’re asking people who own it and like it if you’re missing something from your take, then yes…you are


----------



## Casiquire

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You’re not missing anything if those are your opinions on the demos. If you’re asking people who own it and like it if you’re missing something from your take, then yes…you are


That is sort of what I'm asking, yeah!


----------



## sundrowned

mussnig said:


> That's a bit strange considering that Studio One automatically unlists the VST2 version in case there is a VST3 version available. So this is also working with BBCSO now? So you are telling me, that creating the Sound Variations by hand was not necessary 😐


Oh wow. I've just tested the vst2 BBCSO and Abbey Road and they do automatic sound variations!

I'm....confused.


----------



## jbuhler

Casiquire said:


> Well it's been a few days and I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around this library. I feel like it's really just their way of doing SCS again but with better legato. It's called Appassionata but doesn't sound particularly passionate and expressive to me by comparison. There are some demos where i prefer it over others but more often than not i feel like it isn't offering anything special. Am i missing anything?


No, I wouldn't say it is redoing SCS, even with respect to the legatos—the larger section size is a subtle difference but real: SAS doesn't sound especially chamber-like even if it also doesn't sound as massive like SSS or HZS. I find SAS quite expressive—the dynamic layers are a real boon to its expressivity—but it shows a different expressive face than most libraries available—especially those focused on legato—and one that fits as neatly with the low vib. Tallinn strings as it does with other SF libraries. I find the lower dynamic layers for instance exquisite, but they don't have tons of vibrato, so that might not suit your idea of expressive, or your idea of appassionato. Which I think is a fair assessment, in the sense that I'm not sure the library, and not just the soft dynamic layers, fits my idea of appassionato either, even if I don't want equate expressive with passionate.

I have way too many string libraries, and I'm fully capable of using GAS to convince myself that a library has enough difference that it is worth purchasing, but SAS so far is an excellent fit to my music, and for me I feel like it is filling the hole that I bought first Soaring Strings and then Vista to try to fill. Soaring Strings hasn't worked out well for me (don't get me wrong, it's a good library, just not a good match to what I needed), Vista works a bit better, but it still didn't really cover the ground. SAS is a much better match on its own, and so far it seems a good overlay to SSS on top of that, which makes it even more valuable. It's also a very good overlay to BSS, which so far is my favorite combination.


----------



## muziksculp

It seems the automatic sound-variations appear only with the VST2 versions of the Spitfire Audio Player. It works with AR2 IS, since I have a VST2 version, but my BBCSO Pro is VST3, and it doesn't work with it. Is there a VST2 version for the BBCSO Pro that I can install for Windows 10 ?


----------



## sundrowned

muziksculp said:


> It seems the automatic sound-variations appear only with the VST2 versions of the Spitfire Audio Player. It works with AR2 IS, since I have a VST2 version, but my BBCSO Pro is VST3, and it doesn't work with it. Is there a VST2 version for the BBCSO Pro that I can install for Windows 10 ?


You should have a vst2 version, it's just that Studio One hides it. I had to remove the vst3 version from the vst3 folder and then the vst2 version showed up in Studio One.


----------



## muziksculp

sundrowned said:


> You should have a vst2 version, it's just that Studio One hides it. I had to remove the vst3 version from the vst3 folder and then the vst2 version showed up in Studio One.


OK. That's what I did. Thanks. 

I removed the VST3 version of the BBCSO Pro, and I have the VST2 version installed, now it shows the Sound-Variations automatically. I wonder why they didn't choose to have it work with VST3 versions ?

I have most of their Player Instruments in VST3 format, so I have to remove them so that the VST2 version is detected by S1Pro 5.5 .


----------



## sundrowned

muziksculp said:


> OK. That's what I did. Thanks.
> 
> I removed the VST3 version of the BBCSO Pro, and I have the VST2 version installed, now it shows the Sound-Variations automatically. I wonder why they didn't choose to have it work with VST3 versions ?
> 
> I have most of their Player Instruments in VST3 format, so I have to remove them so that the VST2 version is detected by S1Pro 5.5 .




I've found the sound variations with the vst2 plugins slightly buggy on my system. They work but don't seem to show up properly in the sound variation window. At least on my system. 

But at least you can save the sound variation files to use in the vst3 versions.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## sundrowned

muziksculp said:


>








In the red window the sound variation doesn't show up properly for me, and looks like for you too.


----------



## holywilly

MelodicAdagio said:


> I finally got a chance to play around with Appassionata Strings a little. I kind of hesitate to post anything here, but here's a quick noodle with it. It's just the default Mix 1, which is described as a cinematic mix. I made liberal use of CC1 and CC11 but didn't do anything at all fancy. I'm still trying to learn how to use the library.


Beautiful writing! I also a fan of Mix 4, more intimate, beautiful AIR tone with more close definition.


----------



## MelodicAdagio

holywilly said:


> Beautiful writing! I also a fan of Mix 4, more intimate, beautiful AIR tone with more close definition.


Thanks! I've also been playing around with the other mixes plus experimenting with some custom mixes. You can definitely shape the sound a lot. I really like this library.


----------



## muziksculp

sundrowned said:


> In the red window the sound variation doesn't show up properly for me, and looks like for you too.


The Articulations show up if I click on the down arrow, I don't see a problem on my system. I will post a pic so you see what I see.

Hope they offer VST3 support for Sound-Variations as well.


----------



## Daniel James

Inventio said:


> Hi Daniel,
> 
> I was surprised to see that Appasionata Strings react decently well to faster lines, like arpeggios as was the case of your piece. Not perfect, not like real runs but better than I expected.
> 
> Cheers


Yeah I totally agree, and its why I picked them up. Performance Samples Vista is also fantastic at this! I wanted more options for that kind of slow arpeggio backdrop, for which these are great at. As you mentioned I probably wouldn't solo it, but in a full mix the fast passages should give you a solid sound I think. I have already used them as such in multiple game cues these passed two days. I guess its nice to have that option at AIR too, setting aside all my bemoaning it being the most commonly sampled room in the world at this point 

Although again Spitfire seem to stumble a bit to the finish line. For example committing the cardinal sin of not aligning the fucking delay offset. IE If I set my track back -125ms for the legato...the shorts that _are _there are now -125ms ahead of the beat. 

I swear no one QA's this shit sometimes 😂

-DJ


----------



## Casiquire

jbuhler said:


> No, I wouldn't say it is redoing SCS, even with respect to the legatos—the larger section size is a subtle difference but real: SAS doesn't sound especially chamber-like even if it also doesn't sound as massive like SSS or HZS. I find SAS quite expressive—the dynamic layers are a real boon to its expressivity—but it shows a different expressive face than most libraries available—especially those focused on legato—and one that fits as neatly with the low vib. Tallinn strings as it does with other SF libraries. I find the lower dynamic layers for instance exquisite, but they don't have tons of vibrato, so that might not suit your idea of expressive, or your idea of appassionato. Which I think is a fair assessment, in the sense that I'm not sure the library, and not just the soft dynamic layers, fits my idea of appassionato either, even if I don't want equate expressive with passionate.
> 
> I have way too many string libraries, and I'm fully capable of using GAS to convince myself that a library has enough difference that it is worth purchasing, but SAS so far is an excellent fit to my music, and for me I feel like it is filling the hole that I bought first Soaring Strings and then Vista to try to fill. Soaring Strings hasn't worked out well for me (don't get me wrong, it's a good library, just not a good match to what I needed), Vista works a bit better, but it still didn't really cover the ground. SAS is a much better match on its own, and so far it seems a good overlay to SSS on top of that, which makes it even more valuable. It's also a very good overlay to BSS, which so far is my favorite combination.


I appreciate those thoughts and maybe the misnomer draws my attention away from the library's actual strengths. Maybe it's more "lyrical" than "Appassionata"? I wouldn't even say that I'm expecting a jackhammer elbow of a vibrato, it just sounds particularly smooth and inoffensive.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Casiquire said:


> That is sort of what I'm asking, yeah!


I mean, it's all subjective ultimately, isn't it. You don't like many of the demos - totally fine and there's no reason to feel you _have_ to like the library. There are many well-received libraries out there that you may not connect with for one reason or another. For example, I don't like the sound of Vista and don't find it particularly special, even after playing with the sample patches extensively. Other's may find VSL sterile or MSS bland, while I love the sound of them. You may feel CSS is annoying to work with, other's may find it too dark and noisy.

My personal take on Appassionata Strings is that it has a really gorgeous tone to it that _isn't_ exactly captured in SCS or SSS (though, you are talking about a string section recorded by the same people in the same hall - there's going to be a generally similar vibe). And yes, the legatos are different - I hesitate to use the term better, because it depends on the context. Playing runs? Want to play shorts with the same patch? SCS and SSS Performance Legato is a better choice. Want to play a beautifully lyrical slow to moderate-paced line (ex. the beginning of Elgar's Nimrod variation) - SAS would be my choice easily amongst the 3.


----------



## easyrider

I’ve asked spitfire to confirm









Feature Request - Support automatic mappings for Studio One Sound Variations.


Presonus have made the API available for devs to implement support for automatic mappings for S1 Sound Variations (Articulations) VSL are leading the way and if you are using the Synchron player Studio one talks to the player sees what articulation mappings it has and automatically updates and...




community.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## lucor

Is there still no way to change the dynamic range in the Spitfire player? Really enjoying these, but I feel they could use a bit more dynamic range (i.e. bigger volume difference between pp and ff) to bring them more in line with my other libraries.


----------



## Karma

lucor said:


> Is there still no way to change the dynamic range in the Spitfire player? Really enjoying these, but I feel they could use a bit more dynamic range (i.e. bigger volume difference between pp and ff) to bring them more in line with my other libraries.


I'm afraid not! We matched the dynamics to be as true to the recorded dynamics as possible. The only real alternative to make it more dynamic is using CC11 in combination.


----------



## lucor

Karma said:


> I'm afraid not! We matched the dynamics to be as true to the recorded dynamics as possible. The only real alternative to make it more dynamic is using CC11 in combination.


Thanks Luke! I can hack my way around it for now by loading the library in UNIFY, but I hope you'll consider adding a dynamic range expansion and compression controller in a future version of the player.


----------



## Karma

lucor said:


> Thanks Luke! I can hack my way around it for now by loading the library in UNIFY, but I hope you'll consider adding a dynamic range expansion and compression controller in a future version of the player.


It's a pretty good idea... I'll pass it along


----------



## SomeGuy

With this spitfire player, is it possible to only install or uninstall specific mics and mixes? For example, where SSD space is at a premium or you simply never use a specific microphone or mix, is it possible to remove those mic positions from your drive?


----------



## Evans

SomeGuy said:


> With this spitfire player, is it possible to only install or uninstall specific mixes? For example, where SSD space is at a premium or you simply never use a specific microphone mix, is it possible to remove those mic positions from your drive?


I haven't checked for Appassionata, but this is the case with others I've downloaded. There's even a specific help topic on this for BBCSO on the Spitfire ZenDesk site.

In short, they name their mics very consistently, so you can easily do a broad search and delete all that appear in the search. What happens after you delete the mics is that the mic on/off toggle simply isn't usable.

With that said, I _swear_ doing this caused an increase in the number of those pesky Error 1/2/3/whatever issues.


----------



## IOnian Streams

Hey all. New VI-C member, first post. Appassionata sounds really good. I really like Paul's demo "Twilight of the Shades". And the demos submitted on this thread sound good too. (I do not -- yet -- own SAS.)

From the demos and as discussed in this thread, SAS may lean more to the lyrical, delicate side than the uber-passionate side, which I really like. But it'd be nice to have the full passion too. Much of the passion in strings is delivered by the vibrato and, as many have commented here, the SAS vibrato is more on the restrained side.

I have SStS (for the acronym-challenged like me -- Spitfire Studio Strings) and its legato patch has a vibrato slider (just like the slider for dynamics and expression). It does help to inject more passion. But, slider notwithstanding, the vibrato is really only off or on (slider < 50 = off; slider > 50 = on); there's no continuous cross-fade vibrato. So the transition can be a bit abrupt.

My question: Is there any way to apply some sort of FX to simulate an ensemble string vibrato? (I can hear the purists gasp!) Maybe some sort of modulation that sounds close to real ensemble vibrato? I fooled around with this in SStS but it's hard to get something that doesn't introduce too much distracting phasing. But don't some other commercial libraries simulate their vibrato (as opposed to recorded vibrato samples)? If so, how?


----------



## doctoremmet

IOnian Streams said:


> Hey all. New VI-C member, first post. Appassionata sounds really good. I really like Paul's demo "Twilight of the Shades". And the demos submitted on this thread sound good too. (I do not -- yet -- own SAS.)
> 
> From the demos and as discussed in this thread, SAS may lean more to the lyrical, delicate side than the uber-passionate side, which I really like. But it'd be nice to have the full passion too. Much of the passion in strings is delivered by the vibrato and, as many have commented here, the SAS vibrato is more on the restrained side.
> 
> I have SStS (for the acronym-challenged like me -- Spitfire Studio Strings) and its legato patch has a vibrato slider (just like the slider for dynamics and expression). It does help to inject more passion. But, slider notwithstanding, the vibrato is really only off or on (slider < 50 = off; slider > 50 = on); there's no continuous cross-fade vibrato. So the transition can be a bit abrupt.
> 
> My question: Is there any way to apply some sort of FX to simulate an ensemble string vibrato? (I can hear the purists gasp!) Maybe some sort of modulation that sounds close to real ensemble vibrato? I fooled around with this in SStS but it's hard to get something that doesn't introduce too much distracting phasing. But don't some other commercial libraries simulate their vibrato (as opposed to recorded vibrato samples)? If so, how?


Chris Hein strings offer a simulated vibrato, but it indeed sounds very artificial to be honest. That whole library has a completely different design philosophy than Spitfire's (the ensembles aren't actually recorded but have rather been created by stacking a bunch of solo player recordings that have been phase aligned).

Check the 9.59 time mark:


----------



## IOnian Streams

doctoremmet said:


> Chris Hein strings offer a simulated vibrato, but it indeed sounds very artificial to be honest. That whole library has a completely different design philosophy than Spitfire's (the ensembles aren't actually recorded but have rather been created by stacking a bunch of solo player recordings that have been phase aligned).
> 
> Check the 9.59 time mark:



Thanks. Yes, a very different approach. A lot going on there. Can't really hear the vibrato in the video as the narrator talks over it. But interesting.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

IOnian Streams said:


> Hey all. New VI-C member, first post. Appassionata sounds really good. I really like Paul's demo "Twilight of the Shades". And the demos submitted on this thread sound good too. (I do not -- yet -- own SAS.)
> 
> From the demos and as discussed in this thread, SAS may lean more to the lyrical, delicate side than the uber-passionate side, which I really like. But it'd be nice to have the full passion too. Much of the passion in strings is delivered by the vibrato and, as many have commented here, the SAS vibrato is more on the restrained side.
> 
> I have SStS (for the acronym-challenged like me -- Spitfire Studio Strings) and its legato patch has a vibrato slider (just like the slider for dynamics and expression). It does help to inject more passion. But, slider notwithstanding, the vibrato is really only off or on (slider < 50 = off; slider > 50 = on); there's no continuous cross-fade vibrato. So the transition can be a bit abrupt.
> 
> My question: Is there any way to apply some sort of FX to simulate an ensemble string vibrato? (I can hear the purists gasp!) Maybe some sort of modulation that sounds close to real ensemble vibrato? I fooled around with this in SStS but it's hard to get something that doesn't introduce too much distracting phasing. But don't some other commercial libraries simulate their vibrato (as opposed to recorded vibrato samples)? If so, how?


I don't know if it's possible to simulate vibrato so it sounds good, but if you're looking for a string library with more vibrato than SAS, here are some options:

- Spitfire Chamber Strings (SCS)

- Spitfire Symphonic Strings (SSS)

- Cinematic Studio Strings (CSS)

- Performance Samples Vista

- Musical Sampling Soaring Strings

Maybe others too, but this is what I can think of right now.


----------



## muziksculp

I requested from @Spitfire Team to add Pitchbend control to this and their other libraries, so we can use alternative HW controllers to generate our own vibrato i.e. via hand or finger gestures. 

I think this would be a big improvement if they can add it via updates to their current instruments that use their player.


----------



## Daniel James

If we are doing fix requests @SpitfireSupport @Spitfire Team 

Could you please make the delay offset for the legato and the shorts the same. If I offset the track by -125ms to make the legato be in time, the shorts on the same track will now start 125ms before the beat and be out of time. You can't have both in time on the same track, which makes the keyswitches useless.

-DJ


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

and please add re-bowing of the same note.


----------



## holywilly

and add extra articulations as extension set, don’t mind paying extra.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Cool video from Dan Keen


----------



## molemac

Very useful video. Would be Interesting to hear it without all the plugins, lots of reverbs stereo widening, mastering etc..


----------



## IOnian Streams

Yeah, great video from Dan Keen. Loved hearing him explain his jazz-inspired harmonies. Nice piece of music.

He hits on a couple items asked about in this thread:

1) Re-bowing of the same note...
9:27 - 9:41
"And we've got some impulse legatos here so when we repeat held notes it sounds like we've re-taken the bow. <live playing example> So that's quite useful."

2) Agility of faster notes...
10:29 - 11:00 
"Normally what happens in legatos is, if the mod wheel is really low, it's not very agile, whereas when it gets up to the top it's a little bit more responsive. It's not really the case in this library. You can do really beautiful, quick moving passages even when the mod wheel is low down. <live playing example> It sounds really reactive, which is nice."

However, I agree with the observation made several pages ago that the fast run which would occur in the video at 19:36 had he not stopped playback, but is heard in the demo on Spitfire's SAS page at 1:24, is a bit weak somehow. Dan says he only used legatos in this piece so maybe this run could be helped with the hairpins (but I'm not really clear on how hairpins might be used exactly).


----------



## Jeremy Gillam

Quite liking the tone of this but not having much luck getting re-bows to sound good. I looked at the Dan Keen video where he says re-bowing should work, but when I try to program it it either sounds a bit janky or the second note is massively delayed. Adding more of a gap between the notes prevents the weird delay but defeats the point of a re-bow. The CC1 dip sort of works but with a library this nice it's a shame the re-bowing isn't better. Agree with DJ's comment about equally delaying the glancing artic with the legatos so KS and Exp Maps are more useful.


----------



## IOnian Streams

How are the hairpins and glancing attacks best used? Obviously, they can be used as standalone shorts. But this being a legato library, is their main "reason-for-being" to add realism to legato by overlaying on the legato samples? As one example, can the glancings be spliced to the beginning of legatos to improve fast runs? As another, could using the hairpin with the re-bow in it surrounded by legato notes create a usable legato re-bow? Spitfire walkthrough video doesn't give much detail on this.


----------



## jbuhler

IOnian Streams said:


> How are the hairpins and glancing attacks best used? Obviously, they can be used as standalone shorts. But this being a legato library, is their main "reason-for-being" to add realism to legato by overlaying on the legato samples? As one example, can the glancings be spliced to the beginning of legatos to improve fast runs? As another, could using the hairpin with the re-bow in it surrounded by legato notes create a usable legato re-bow? Spitfire walkthrough video doesn't give much detail on this.


Overlay to improve runs? I don't know. Here is something of a speed stress test, programming is not optimized. (More judicious use of dynamic layers would likely help.) I made these to explore capabilities. I was actually surprised at what it could handle at this tempo more than I was disappointed by where it stumbled. These have a bit of reverb on them (I forgot to disable it before printing) but no other processing.

Legato:

View attachment SAS Speed Test legato.mp3


Glancing Attack:

View attachment SAS Speed Test Glancing.mp3


Overlay of the two:

View attachment SAS Speed Test Legato + Glancing.mp3


Here are mostly hairpins from an early experiment with SAS to play with repeated melodic notes and dotted rhythms. Again the programming has not been fully optimized, and there is no reverb or other processing:

View attachment SAS Noodle 2 (Hairpin).mp3


----------



## Jeffrey Peterson

A question on Agile vs Relaxed. I have always just ridden the mod wheel. I don't perform both expression and mod at the same time.

Question 1: Should I? Is it better? I feel I get all the expression I need with the mod wheel; unless the libraries modwheel only changes the dynamics without adding the volume/expression change...such is the case with Abbey Road 2s legatos(riding the modwheel doesn't change the volume at all) In that case I route expression to modwheel so I can control both at the same time.

Question 2: If I only use the modwheel is "Relaxed" the better option? It seems like with "Agile" you hear louder dynamics "mf f" quicker as you raise the modwheel. With "relaxed" it seems like "p mp" plays all the way to 65 cc1. 

Question 3: What does Thomas Bergersen do? (if I was a Hedge Fund Manager I would ask what Warren Buffett does so don't get mad at the question


----------



## jbuhler

Jeffrey Peterson said:


> A question on Agile vs Relaxed. I have always just ridden the mod wheel. I don't perform both expression and mod at the same time.
> 
> Question 1: Should I? Is it better? I feel I get all the expression I need with the mod wheel; unless the libraries modwheel only changes the dynamics without adding the volume/expression change...such is the case with Abbey Road 2s legatos(riding the modwheel doesn't change the volume at all) In that case I route expression to modwheel so I can control both at the same time.
> 
> Question 2: If I only use the modwheel is "Relaxed" the better option?
> 
> Question 3: What does Thomas Bergersen do? (if I was a Hedge Fund Manager I would ask what Warren Buffett does so don't get mad at the question


I would try them all out and see which fits what you want the library to do better. Expression can be used to expand the dynamic layers, and when there are five dynamic layers that is often useful to get more control. I have also been using the modifer midi fx plugin in logic to restrict the actual range of the CC1 while being able to make more controlled moves with the modwheel itself. 

Dynamic swells with the modwheel using the same midi, but different dynamic smoothing:

Agile:

View attachment SAS Violin 1 Dynamic Sweep Agile.mp3


Moderate:

View attachment SAS Violin 1 Dynamic Sweep Moderate.mp3


Relaxed:

View attachment SAS Violin 1 Dynamic Sweep Relaxed.mp3


----------



## IOnian Streams

jbuhler said:


> Overlay to improve runs? I don't know. Here is something of a speed stress test, programming is not optimized. (More judicious use of dynamic layers would likely help.) I made these to explore capabilities. I was actually surprised at what it could handle at this tempo more than I was disappointed by where it stumbled. These have a bit of reverb on them (I forgot to disable it before printing) but no other processing.


Wow, OK. Thanks for those demos. That fast legato-only (1st example) is quite good. The glancing attacks by themselves are very smeared. The glancing-legato overlay is better. But to my ears the legato-only does the fast run job quite well. And that's a nice run too! Would be nice to hear the legato-only without reverb.

In your hairpin example I do hear the repeated notes. It's close but doesn't entirely convince me just yet.

So, I'm still wondering exactly how Spitfire intended us to use these hairpin & glancing articulations. (Or they wrongly assume I'm smart enough to know already. Guess I'll have to buy it and learn how!)


----------



## jbuhler

IOnian Streams said:


> In your hairpin example I do hear the repeated notes. It's close but doesn't entirely convince me just yet.


If I'm hearing what you are hearing, some of that could likely be handled with a little more attention to the automation. The effect is more like a connected detache, not a repeated note done all on bow change with maximum connection. I like the dotted rhythm effect of the example, which captures something of the hooked bow technique the string players would likely use. At least as far as I understand it.




IOnian Streams said:


> Would be nice to hear the legato-only without reverb.


Here it is. No reverb.

View attachment SAS Speed Test Legato no verb.mp3


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

jbuhler said:


> I would try them all out and see which fits what you want the library to do better. Expression can be used to expand the dynamic layers, and when there are five dynamic layers that is often useful to get more control. I have also been using the modifer midi fx plugin in logic to restrict the actual range of the CC1 while being able to make more controlled moves with the modwheel itself.
> 
> Dynamic swells with the modwheel using the same midi, but different dynamic smoothing:
> 
> Agile:
> 
> View attachment SAS Violin 1 Dynamic Sweep Agile.mp3
> 
> 
> Moderate:
> 
> View attachment SAS Violin 1 Dynamic Sweep Moderate.mp3
> 
> 
> Relaxed:
> 
> View attachment SAS Violin 1 Dynamic Sweep Relaxed.mp3


i genuinely can't tell the difference. Just me?


----------



## Jeffrey Peterson

NeonMediaKJT said:


> i genuinely can't tell the difference. Just me?


I can't tell the difference either when listening to these. I wish Spitfire included a manual to explain the difference between the 3. Let me know if they did and I just can't find it.
When playing, it feels like "Relaxed" focuses more on the low dynamics? More CC range is dedicated to p, pp, mp, mf?

I'm just finishing up my new template with a new computer build/slave and am adding these in just in time with SSS, CSS, HS, and Abbey Road 2 Legatos. So far any combination of layer with those sounds amazing. I'm adding them as "Agile" for now.


----------



## jbuhler

NeonMediaKJT said:


> i genuinely can't tell the difference. Just me?


You might not be able to hear it in the mp3. The differences are subtle, but in aifs, the transitions between dynamic layers become increasingly bumpy the more relaxed smoothing is. It also seems to me that relaxed is a bit easier on the CPU. Even the bumpiest transition isn't particularly bumpy however.


----------



## muziksculp

Jeffrey Peterson said:


> I wish Spitfire included a manual to explain the difference between the 3. Let me know if they did and I just can't find it.


From the user's manual :

B. DYNAMIC SMOOTHING This setting controls the overall reactivity of the dynamics slider, smoothing out the crossfade between the various dynamics.

Agile (Default) - Allows for fine and precise control of the Dynamics.

Moderate - Gently smooths out the crossfades to allow for a more tactile and expressive performance.

Relaxed - A further increased smoothing perfect for enhanced control over dramatic swells & crescendos.


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> From the user's manual :
> 
> B. DYNAMIC SMOOTHING This setting controls the overall reactivity of the dynamics slider, smoothing out the crossfade between the various dynamics.
> 
> Agile (Default) - Allows for fine and precise control of the Dynamics.
> 
> Moderate - Gently smooths out the crossfades to allow for a more tactile and expressive performance.
> 
> Relaxed - A further increased smoothing perfect for enhanced control over dramatic swells & crescendos.


Weird, my ear tells me it's the opposite.

ETA: In any case, there is not a lot of difference as far as I've been able to tell, so I tend to just leave it on agile, since that's what it defaults to.


----------



## IOnian Streams

jbuhler said:


> If I'm hearing what you are hearing, some of that could likely be handled with a little more attention to the automation. The effect is more like a connected detache, not a repeated note done all on bow change with maximum connection. I like the dotted rhythm effect of the example, which captures something of the hooked bow technique the string players would likely use. At least as far as I understand it.
> 
> Here it is. No reverb.


Thanks. Sounds great. You're clearly higher on the learning curve than I, not only with the virtual instruments but the real ones too. So, I appreciate your input.


----------



## jbuhler

IOnian Streams said:


> Thanks. Sounds great. You're clearly higher on the learning curve than I, not only with the virtual instruments but the real ones too. So, I appreciate your input.


I don’t know. It’s pretty subtle in this case and so easy to convince myself I’m hearing what’s not in fact present. I do feel like I’m hearing these subtle bands of different timbre at layer boundaries, but I might well be hearing the blending algorithm whereas I’ve acclimated myself to the ordinary crossfade and so am hearing its blurring as neutral.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Today's work, experimenting & practicing string writing with the library more and more.


----------



## muk

And another user demo:

Sunt lacrimae rerum for String Orchestra

View attachment Sunt lacrimae rerum for String Orchestra.mp3


This is focusing on the slow, lyrical side of the legato.

The sound of this library is passionate rather than intimate. It has this polished, high-gloss, widescreen kind of sound. Very nice for certain things. But soundwise it's definitely not a library for everything.


----------



## Scamper

NeonMediaKJT said:


> i genuinely can't tell the difference. Just me?


I couldn't even feel a noticeable difference, when I tried to play with all modes and see how they react to slower or quicker modwheel changes. As it is, the feature seems negligible to me.


----------



## jamwerks

SF really has a winner. Glad they didn't try to further develope SSS but hopefully will with this one. I'm sure they'll be doing lots of Strings at Abby Road, but hopefully keep adding on to this one.

Personally I'd love for them to visit some of the innovations that MSS brought, with the ostinati and such, as well as extensive sordino arts!


----------



## RMH

muk said:


> And another user demo:
> 
> Sunt lacrimae rerum for String Orchestra
> 
> View attachment Sunt lacrimae rerum for String Orchestra.mp3
> 
> 
> This is focusing on the slow, lyrical side of the legato.
> 
> The sound of this library is passionate rather than intimate. It has tnis polished, high-gloss, widescreen kind of sound. Very nice for certain things. But soundwise it's definitely not a library for everything.


wow
sound is amazing!
Can I know what kind of mic used?


----------



## jbuhler

muk said:


> And another user demo:
> 
> Sunt lacrimae rerum for String Orchestra
> 
> View attachment Sunt lacrimae rerum for String Orchestra.mp3
> 
> 
> This is focusing on the slow, lyrical side of the legato.
> 
> The sound of this library is passionate rather than intimate. It has tnis polished, high-gloss, widescreen kind of sound. Very nice for certain things. But soundwise it's definitely not a library for everything.


Very nice demo. 

I’m finding the library can lean classical and tender if you stick with the lower dynamic layers. And because its vibrato only kicks into high on the upper dynamic layers it has many faces other than passionate. I’m not sure passionate is even a term I’d use to describe it if I wasn’t cued by the name. But there are certainly limits to the library’s expressive range. 

Your demo, though, captures that passionate face nicely, less because it plays to passion throughout, I think, than because of how it constantly taps into the library’s expressive potential along its passionate face. The result is that you feel this deep well of potential for passion even in the moments where the music isn’t especially passionate. It’s a very fine and moving effect.


----------



## wayne_rowley

I'm having a problem with these and I wonder if it's just me. The demos have some lovely slurred notes in the legato.. but I just can't trigger them *even on the slurred legato patches*. It's supposed to be to do with velocity and overlapped notes, but no matter what velocity/overlap I try the slurred transitions won't trigger.

Logic Pro X on a Mac.

Is this plug-in broken or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks
Wayne


----------



## muk

RMH said:


> wow
> sound is amazing!
> Can I know what kind of mic used?


Thank you RMH! Sure thing. I used the following mic settings on all sections:

Close 0.0 (I wanted to create a direct sound with a certain intimacy. Close is great for that)

Outriggers -3.9 (for ambiance and width)

Tree -4.8 (The tree is not as panned as the close mics, and has less width than the outriggers. So it fills the stereo spectrum nicely and blends the sections together).

That's all, just these three mics used.



jbuhler said:


> Very nice demo.
> 
> I’m finding the library can lean classical and tender if you stick with the lower dynamic layers. And because its vibrato only kicks into high on the upper dynamic layers it has many faces other than passionate. I’m not sure passionate is even a term I’d use to describe it if I wasn’t cued by the name. But there are certainly limits to the library’s expressive range.
> 
> Your demo, though, captures that passionate face nicely, less because it plays to passion throughout, I think, than because of how it constantly taps into the library’s expressive potential along its passionate face. The result is that you feel this deep well of potential for passion even in the moments where the music isn’t especially passionate. It’s a very fine and moving effect.



Thank you James! That's a very eloquent and almost poetic description.
I agree, the library is not suitable for everything. When used in it's sweet spot, it's incredibly good though.


----------



## jbuhler

wayne_rowley said:


> I'm having a problem with these and I wonder if it's just me. The demos have some lovely slurred notes in the legato.. but I just can't trigger them *even on the slurred legato patches*. It's supposed to be to do with velocity and overlapped notes, but no matter what velocity/overlap I try the slurred transitions won't trigger.
> 
> Logic Pro X on a Mac.
> 
> Is this plug-in broken or am I doing something wrong?
> 
> Thanks
> Wayne


My understanding is that the slurred legato patch doesn’t respond to velocity. The main legato patch does, but I can’t say I generally hear a big difference between the bow change (detache) and fingered (slurred) legato, even at the high dynamic layers. 

The portamento is limited, and only triggers at very high velocities (above 120) when the modwheel has the top dynamic layer selected, the interval is greater than a fifth, and on a note that would be played on the E string of the violin or the A string of the cello. You can fake the portamento at lower dynamic levels by triggering it with the modwheel and velocity and compensating with a much lower cc11 setting. It can work reasonably well especially at moderate dynamics, but you are still restricted to intervals greater than a fifth and on the top string. (Violas do not have portamento.)

That said, there are three dynamic layers to the legato (plus the limited portamento) so in searching for a more pronounced slurred sample, sometimes you need to try different settings on the modwheel to trigger different slurred samples. And as generally the case, each interval is a different sample so some will have more pronounced slurs than others. These on the whole are pretty even, but there is some variation.


----------



## wayne_rowley

jbuhler said:


> My understanding is that the slurred legato patch doesn’t respond to velocity. The main legato patch does, but I can’t say I generally hear a big difference between the bow change (detache) and fingered (slurred) legato, even at the high dynamic layers.
> 
> The portamento is limited, and only triggers at very high velocities (above 120) when the modwheel has the top dynamic layer selected, the interval is greater than a fifth, and on a note that would be played on the E string of the violin or the A string of the cello. You can fake the portamento at lower dynamic levels by triggering it with the modwheel and velocity and compensating with a much lower cc11 setting. It can work reasonably well especially at moderate dynamics, but you are still restricted to intervals greater than a fifth and on the top string. (Violas do not have portamento.)
> 
> That said, there are three dynamic layers to the legato (plus the limited portamento) so in searching for a more pronounced slurred sample, sometimes you need to try different settings on the modwheel to trigger different slurred samples. And as generally the case, each interval is a different sample so some will have more pronounced slurs than others. These on the whole are pretty even, but there is some variation.


Thanks!


----------



## Jackal_King

Has anyone mess around with the delay setting on Studio One or any other DAW to find the right negative delay for Appassionata? And do you have to take it in account with adjusting the legato offset?


----------



## MelodicAdagio

muk said:


> And another user demo:
> 
> Sunt lacrimae rerum for String Orchestra
> 
> View attachment Sunt lacrimae rerum for String Orchestra.mp3
> 
> 
> This is focusing on the slow, lyrical side of the legato.
> 
> The sound of this library is passionate rather than intimate. It has tnis polished, high-gloss, widescreen kind of sound. Very nice for certain things. But soundwise it's definitely not a library for everything.


Wonderful piece. Beautifully done.


----------



## RMH

muk said:


> Close 0.0 (I wanted to create a direct sound with a certain intimacy. Close is great for that)
> 
> Outriggers -3.9 (for ambiance and width)
> 
> Tree -4.8 (The tree is not as panned as the close mics, and has less width than the outriggers. So it fills the stereo spectrum nicely and blends the sections together)


Compared to the official demo, the strings are more lively. That goes for vibrato, too. I really love it!


----------



## molemac

muk said:


> And another user demo:
> 
> Sunt lacrimae rerum for String Orchestra
> 
> View attachment Sunt lacrimae rerum for String Orchestra.mp3
> 
> 
> This is focusing on the slow, lyrical side of the legato.
> 
> The sound of this library is passionate rather than intimate. It has tnis polished, high-gloss, widescreen kind of sound. Very nice for certain things. But soundwise it's definitely not a library for everything.


Sweet spot of the library , bravo


----------



## muk

Thank you for your kind words @MelodicAdagio @RMH and @molemac! I appreciate it.



RMH said:


> Compared to the official demo, the strings are more lively.


This could be because of the close mic that I used as the core of the mix. I can only guess, but I assume in the official demos the close mic is mixed in much lower, if at all. Appassionata strings are quite wet and even the tree mics sound rather distant. The close mic is a bit more direct - this might be a difference to the official demos.


----------



## zeng

Why there is no ensemble patch in AS (like in Abbey Road 2 Solo Strings)??


----------



## stephane_f

My contribution: Mendelssohn plays Appassionata with Dorico




Felix Mendelssohn, Symphony for Strings No.5 (Andante)

All done with Dorico 4 and Appassionata Strings + Spitfire Audio Symphonic Strings for pizzicati parts


----------



## star.keys

muk said:


> And another user demo:
> 
> Sunt lacrimae rerum for String Orchestra
> 
> View attachment Sunt lacrimae rerum for String Orchestra.mp3
> 
> 
> This is focusing on the slow, lyrical side of the legato.
> 
> The sound of this library is passionate rather than intimate. It has tnis polished, high-gloss, widescreen kind of sound. Very nice for certain things. But soundwise it's definitely not a library for everything.


Very nice demo


----------



## yiph2

Another demo:


Only SAS for strings


----------



## doctoremmet

yiph2 said:


> Another demo:
> 
> 
> Only SAS for strings



Sounds great - well done.


----------



## dcoscina

I'm still on the fence about this. I'd like to get it because I personally prefer the less affected vibrato sound, especially in the upper register which can end up making a string library sound wobbly and synthy. Thanks to everyone who has provided demos. It's helpful in deciding.


----------



## doctoremmet

I could not resist any longer and decided I will get this. Mostly thanks to the excellent demonstrations by @muk and @yiph2 as well as @Akarin’s most helpful videos. So I didn’t even last one month without buying a new VI. But we all knew that I was bound to fail I guess.

Edit: wait, I know… I’ll get it on tuesday.


----------



## Double Helix

doctoremmet said:


> . . . But we all knew that I was bound to fail I guess.


Temme, there are failures, and then there are "failures"--this might be the latter 8-)
As James Taylor sang long ago, "The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time"


----------



## doctoremmet

I have to say… these sampled strings REALLY speak to me emotionally. So I am sure I will enjoy them David. So a ‘fail’ indeed


----------



## muk

star.keys said:


> Very nice demo


Thank you star.keys!



doctoremmet said:


> I could not resist any longer and decided I will get this. Mostly thanks to the excellent demonstrations by @muk and @yiph2 as well as @Akarin’s most helpful videos.


Thanks for the kind words Temme. I'm glad if my piece helps to make an informed decision.


----------



## jbuhler

doctoremmet said:


> I have to say… these samples strings REALLY speak to me emotionally. So I am sure I will enjoy them David. So a ‘fail’ indeed


SAS can’t handle everything of course, not even everything lyrical. But their expressive range is vast and they can handle a lot. What I especially appreciate about them is that they cover ground my other strings—and I have a lot of other strings—do not cover well, without ever seeming niche or overly affected, so they can and will be used a lot.


----------



## doctoremmet

muk said:


> Thank you star.keys!
> 
> 
> Thanks for the kind words Temme. I'm glad if my piece helps to make an informed decision.


They did for sure. This whole thread is a prime example of musicians helping musicians. I am impressed by the quality of the demos on here.


----------



## dcoscina

What impresses me most is the upper range of the violins. The subtle glide-up for additional expression is really nice. This is something I don't hear in other string libraries which get too thin, or else synthy. SAS really sounds authentic.


----------



## muziksculp

dcoscina said:


> What impresses me most is the upper range of the violins. The subtle glide-up for additional expression is really nice. This is something I don't hear in other string libraries which get too thin, or else synthy. SAS really sounds authentic.


= Buy it


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic

dcoscina said:


> What impresses me most is the upper range of the violins. The subtle glide-up for additional expression is really nice. This is something I don't hear in other string libraries which get too thin, or else synthy. SAS really sounds authentic.


It really does :D


----------



## Batrawi

while I already love the Lyndhurst sound here, It makes me even more hungry to see the @Spitfire Team creating an "Air Studio One" line as well for their Appasionata series in the future!


----------



## TonyZem

Batrawi said:


> that's half ASS


I would say 2/3.


----------



## mussnig

Batrawi said:


> while I already love the Lyndhurst sound here, It makes me even more hungry to see the @Spitfire Team creating an "Air Studio One" line as well for their Appasionata series in the future!


And while they are at it, they should do some Solo Strings as an addition to their Studio series as well!


----------



## TonyZem

dcoscina said:


> I'm still on the fence about this. I'd like to get it because I personally prefer the less affected vibrato sound, especially in the upper register which can end up making a string library sound wobbly and synthy. Thanks to everyone who has provided demos. It's helpful in deciding.


Me too.


----------



## tc9000

Appassionata version of the Chorale from Alex Heppelmann's superb Piano to Orchestra (Episode One).

View attachment appassionata - test 2.mp3


Source:


----------



## jbuhler

dcoscina said:


> What impresses me most is the upper range of the violins. The subtle glide-up for additional expression is really nice. This is something I don't hear in other string libraries which get too thin, or else synthy. SAS really sounds authentic.


The varied vibrato by dynamic layer is indeed very nice, and I also like that the vibrato of the top layer is intense without being overbearing. More than any other library I have this one really pays giving thought and attention to the dynamic layers you want to use for a passage, and five dynamic layers means relatively small moves on the modwheel can have a very large effect on the sound of the library. That means you have to learn a few new habits, and I’d say that, and figuring out what I like and don’t like about various mic configurations, has been the biggest challenge working with the library so far. 

I do miss not having a general portamento. I’m also trying to get more of a string section in a concert hall sound out of it, but Air is heavily imprinted. Oh, and I still haven’t worked out a solution that I really like for getting final notes of phrsses to fade into the hall sound of Air. These are just minor quibbles though.


----------



## dcoscina

jbuhler said:


> The varied vibrato by dynamic layer is indeed very nice, and I also like that the vibrato of the top layer is intense without being overbearing. More than any other library I have this one really pays giving thought and attention to the dynamic layers you want to use for a passage, and five dynamic layers means relatively small moves on the modwheel can have a very large effect on the sound of the library. That means you have to learn a few new habits, and I’d say that, and figuring out what I like and don’t like about various mic configurations, has been the biggest challenge working with the library so far.
> 
> I do miss not having a general portamento. I’m also trying to get more of a string section in a concert hall sound out of it, but Air is heavily imprinted. Oh, and I still haven’t worked out a solution that I really like for getting final notes of phrsses to fade into the hall sound of Air. These are just minor quibbles though.


Great feedback. I feel my wallet burning a hole in my pocket... and a little voice saying "my precioussssssssss"


----------



## Batrawi

jbuhler said:


> and I also like that the vibrato of the top layer is intense without being overbearing


👌Exactly. Spitfire nailed the sweetest vibrato spot with this one IMO. It progresses "elegantly", "without overdoing it" unlike most string libraries... so the passion always sounds true & honest with each dynamic it embraces, and this is why I think the name "Appasionata" is spot on!


----------



## EricValette

I did a new test today with AS on the main title of Star Wars to see if with the trick of transposition we could obtain a fuller symphonic sound, and I am rather satisfied with the result (extract between 0:27 and 0:48). On this part, there is only AS doubled with itself layered with spiccato and marcato patches from NSS/AROOF to accentuate certain attacks. (AS mics are: outriggers 0.0 db, Tree -4.5 db).


----------



## CT

EricValette said:


> outriggers 0.0 db, Tree -4.5 db


Just to chime in... I think this is a pretty great basis for this library when mixing mic signals. The tree sounds a bit on the low/close side to me, with a somewhat boomy sound in the lower strings, and bringing it down relative to the outriggers, without totally killing it, has been working very nicely for me as a starting point rather than the tree on its own, even when using other libraries without outriggers augmenting their trees.


----------



## MusicStudent

SAS Neebee Question if I may. Is there a session template for Reaper and SAS available? Otherwise, can I assume it is one instance of the VST per track per articulation. That could be quite a few occurrences of the plugin. Is that right? I downloaded a few minutes ago


----------



## jamwerks

EricValette said:


> I did a new test today with AS on the main title of Star Wars to see if with the trick of transposition we could obtain a fuller symphonic sound, and I am rather satisfied with the result (extract between 0:27 and 0:48). On this part, there is only AS doubled with itself layered with spiccato and marcato patches from NSS/AROOF to accentuate certain attacks. (AS mics are: outriggers 0.0 db, Tree -4.5 db).



Sounds really good ! But instead of layering it with itself (even transposed), did you try with SCS? That might add "detail" to the full ensemble "body".


----------



## Lee Blaske

Another piece using Spitfire "Appassionata Strings" in context with a bit of Tundra and Aperture to pad things out a bit...


----------



## Scalms

dcoscina said:


> I'm still on the fence about this. I'd like to get it because I personally prefer the less affected vibrato sound, especially in the upper register which can end up making a string library sound wobbly and synthy. Thanks to everyone who has provided demos. It's helpful in deciding.


I’m very much still on the fence about this too. But ironically I was thinking the opposite, that the lack of vibrato makes this library sound synthetic, almost like someone is sitting at a Casio keyboard playing the strings preset. I’ve always thought I would like a library with less vibrato, but now I’m convinced there is a minimum needed to avoid that synthetic appearance, and IMO this library recorded just below that threshold needed. 

theres something almost too sterile about this sound. Sorry everyone I’m just not hearing what you all are hearing, I don’t mean to rain down on your parade. and I’m a big Spitfire fan (love HZS and SCS). I do think this library will serve excellent layering duties, but on its own, I’ve yet to hear a convincing demo (now I will duck from the 🍅 ).


----------



## Flyo

Scalms said:


> I’m very much still on the fence about this too. But ironically I was thinking the opposite, that the lack of vibrato makes this library sound synthetic, almost like someone is sitting at a Casio keyboard playing the strings preset. I’ve always thought I would like a library with less vibrato, but now I’m convinced there is a minimum needed to avoid that synthetic appearance, and IMO this library recorded just below that threshold needed.
> 
> theres something almost too sterile about this sound. Sorry everyone I’m just not hearing what you all are hearing, I don’t mean to rain down on your parade. and I’m a big Spitfire fan (love HZS and SCS). I do think this library will serve excellent layering duties, but on its own, I’ve yet to hear a convincing demo (now I will duck from the 🍅 ).


Thinking the same as you, I would buy it if they include some molto vibrato. At the higher register is where shine most, sound elegant and refined but not passionate in lower dynamics, some times sound like a string pad so many times.


----------



## EricValette

jamwerks said:


> Sounds really good ! But instead of layering it with itself (even transposed), did you try with SCS? That might add "detail" to the full ensemble "body".


Thanks a lot! 

It was just a fun test to see how the library behaved when just doubling it with herself, to see if we could simulate a fuller more symphonic sound. Indeed, the result sounds a bit flat and not very detailed and the addition of another library seems necessary...
On the same mockup, I get much better results by using it as an additional layer of SSS Pro or BBCSO Pro with relatively similar mic positions (+ a little close), or in similar conditions in addition to BS/BSS or Vista/Con Moto. I also have to experiment in addition to Afflatus or CSS...

SCS would most likely be an excellent (the best?) choice for the reasons you state, but unfortunately I don't have it... damn! 

After several days of use, it's more in a layering situation that I plan to use this library in the future rather than solo. It is in this context that I have obtained the best results so far.


----------



## Scalms

Flyo said:


> Thinking the same as you, I would buy it if they include some molto vibrato. At the higher register is where shine most, sound elegant and refined but not passionate in lower dynamics, some times sound like a string pad so many times.


I agree with this, I did forget that i liked what I heard at the very highest dynamic, some nice emotion ringing out there. I will say this library has some excellent clarity in the recordings (which is very important to me), on par with OT and VSL.


----------



## Vik

EricValette said:


> SCS would most likely be an excellent (the best?) choice for the reasons you state


Agree.

In case this Paul Thomson video hasn't already been posted in this thread:


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel

Maybe this could be useful to someone. 
Same simple melody in three octaves, with lots of repeating notes. Programmed with Afflatus, Appassionata and CSS. 
Middle voice (4th oct.) is doubled by tuning and doubling vn2 sections in Appassionata and CSS and by patch layering in Afflatus. It was originally done in Afflatus, so I tried to "match" it with other libraries (not sure if I succeeded).
PS. Sorry for the crescendo at the and of the CSS file - lazy programming.


----------



## Casiquire

Daniel James said:


> If we are doing fix requests @SpitfireSupport @Spitfire Team
> 
> Could you please make the delay offset for the legato and the shorts the same. If I offset the track by -125ms to make the legato be in time, the shorts on the same track will now start 125ms before the beat and be out of time. You can't have both in time on the same track, which makes the keyswitches useless.
> 
> -DJ


The sooner this becomes industry standard the better! Why did we let things get this bad lol


----------



## givemenoughrope

Anyone doing any comparisons to this library with 8dio/Adachi, Sample Modeling or even the LASS update? Just curious thx


----------



## JohnG

IDK -- it sounds great. Maybe it's just the way Spitfire records? Their libraries' aesthetics just strike me right on the money. If that's an expression.

And wonderful demo from @muk -- thank you!


[note: I have received free products from Spitfire Audio]


----------



## dcoscina

Yeah I caved... downloading now. LOL.


----------



## wunderflo

dcoscina said:


> Yeah I caved... downloading now. LOL.


same here, and I'm a bit worried that now Pacific Strings will finally be released and it'll feature great dynamics and great legato, and thus make this release a bit redundant.


----------



## dcoscina

wunderflo said:


> same here, and I'm a bit worried that now Pacific Strings will finally be released and it'll feature great dynamics and great legato, and thus make this release a bit redundant.


the sound of the hall is different for Pacific Strings. I'm sure you can manage to use both.


----------



## muziksculp

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Maybe this could be useful to someone.
> Same simple melody in three octaves, with lots of repeating notes. Programmed with Afflatus, Appassionata and CSS.
> Middle voice (4th oct.) is doubled by tuning and doubling vn2 sections in Appassionata and CSS and by patch layering in Afflatus. It was originally done in Afflatus, so I tried to "match" it with other libraries (not sure if I succeeded).
> PS. Sorry for the crescendo at the and of the CSS file - lazy programming.


I like Afflatus the best in this context. They sound more responsive, and not slow to react, Appassionata sounds out of context, since the attacks are too slow, and more suitable for emotional slower paced phrases. CSS sounds nice, but I still prefer Afflatus in this scenario.

Which patch of Afflatus did you use here ?

Thanks


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel

muziksculp said:


> I like Afflatus the best in this context. They sound more responsive, and not slow to react, Appassionata sounds out of context, since the attacks are too slow, and more suitable for emotional slower paced phrases. CSS sounds nice, but I still prefer Afflatus in this scenario.
> 
> Which patch of Afflatus did you use here ?
> 
> Thanks


Thanks. As I said, Afflatus is what I used initially and probably spent most time with so no wonder.
Afflatus patch rather was complex: 
upper voice: vn1 Scenes d'Amour, middle voice: vn1 Mysterious + vn2 Lush, low voice: va Chamber.

(strangely, CSS sounds out of tune to me, either with itself or with the CSW).


----------



## muziksculp

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Thanks. As I said, Afflatus is what I used initially and probably spent most time with so no wonder.
> Afflatus patch rather was complex:
> upper voice: vn1 Scenes d'Amour, middle voice: vn1 Mysterious + vn2 Lush, low voice: va Chamber.
> 
> (strangely, CSS sounds out of tune to me, either with itself or with the CSW).


THANKS


----------



## muk

JohnG said:


> And wonderful demo from @muk -- thank you!


Thank you John! Knowing some of your work, this means a lot. I appreciate the kind words.


----------



## JBW

A few bars from Holberg Suite:

View attachment Grieg - Air from Holberg Suite.mp3


Spitfire Appassionata Strings for all parts (save 4 CB pizz. in SCS).
Combo & Glancing patches.
Outriggers full on.

An Air in Air... Thank you to everybody at Spitfire!


----------



## JohnG

Nice demo JBW but I guess to me that suite is going to sound better with a bigger ensemble, or maybe sweetened with live players, or maybe alternating with larger / smaller sections. Or maybe a blend?

It is very very difficult to pull off convincingly something slow like that with only samples, even though you did a fine job. After a little while, it just gives itself away.

What you could do however is add either a quintet or even just a solo violinist to sweeten it and it would sound very, very convincing, I suspect.

AS I wrote above, I think this library sounds great. Nevertheless, it's a very particular size (I think 8-6-6-6-4) that really works best with the right material. I'm thinking of Tom Newman (as Spitfire were, apparently) in some of his more emotional works.


----------



## JBW

JohnG said:


> Nice demo JBW but I guess to me that suite is going to sound better with a bigger ensemble, or maybe sweetened with live players, or maybe alternating with larger / smaller sections. Or maybe a blend?
> 
> It is very very difficult to pull off convincingly something slow like that with only samples, even though you did a fine job. After a little while, it just gives itself away.
> 
> What you could do however is add either a quintet or even just a solo violinist to sweeten it and it would sound very, very convincing, I suspect.
> 
> AS I wrote above, I think this library sounds great. Nevertheless, it's a very particular size (I think 8-6-6-6-4) that really works best with the right material. I'm thinking of Tom Newman (as Spitfire were, apparently) in some of his more emotional works.


I agree with you, John. Indeed, recording live players is the best way to make the Holberg sweet! Har har...

It was fun coming up with a different interpretation than the usual symphony recording by playing within the limitations of the sample library. Thank you for your comments!


----------



## Batrawi

muziksculp said:


> Appassionata sounds out of context, since the attacks are too slow, and more suitable for emotional slower paced phrases.


It can respond quite fast when you increase the tightness knob.


----------



## Vik

Agree, John – nice work by JBW, but I've always been thinking that the Holberg Suite must be one of the most difficult pieces to mock up convincingly.

One particular chamber orchestra (they've actually often performed it with between 17 and 21 players) has performed that piece so many times that they most likely could perform it live while being drunk, asleep, lobotomized – and _dancing_, but that's the exception.

I guess a main key to make it sound large enough with few players is to only use one bass player, a trick that I believe Seiji Ozawa was one of the first to pioneer for the Holberg Suite.


----------



## JohnG

Vik said:


> I guess a main key to make it sound large enough with few players is to only use one bass player, a trick that I believe Seiji Ozawa was one of the first to pioneer for the Holberg Suite.



Maybe so. Mr. Ozawa certainly knows a thing or two about the orchestra!

In recording strings for sweetening, I often have used a single bass player even with quite a few others. It's amazing just how much a single player changes the overall feel. Undoubtedly it affects not only the room sound but the way the other players play.


----------



## Vik

JohnG said:


> Mr. Ozawa certainly knows a thing or two about the orchestra!


That's my feeling too. 😆 

Sometimes adding players means less, and not more 'bite' and fullness. And there are some libraries out there which sounds big even with few players (PS Vista has 15-18 players, Tina Guo is one player)... the full sound is probably a result of using a certain distance to the microphones and engineers who know what they do.


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel

muziksculp said:


> I like Afflatus the best in this context. They sound more responsive, and not slow to react, Appassionata sounds out of context, since the attacks are too slow, and more suitable for emotional slower paced phrases.


I wanted to present Appassionata in a better light, so I tried different approach:

Instead of doubling vn2's (with tuning trick), I layered them with various vn2 shorts, in hopes of adding immediacy and general speed. I think, I like it better this way.

(I also learned, that if I'm using 125ms legato and medium dynamics, the best *overall *offset for shorts (to layer with) is about 60ms.)


----------



## muziksculp

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> I wanted to present Appassionata in a better light, so I tried different approach:
> 
> Instead of doubling vn2's (with tuning trick), I layered them with various vn2 shorts, in hopes of adding immediacy and general speed. I think, I like it better this way.
> 
> (I also learned, that if I'm using 125ms legato and medium dynamics, the best *overall *offset for shorts (to layer with) is about 60ms.)


SAS sound better now after you layered them with some short articulations, they sound more acrobatic 

Oh.. if I may ask, what Library, and string short articulation did you layer with SAS Legato ? 

You did a very nice job at keeping the shorts very transparent in the layering, I guess they are mixed in very low volume, but still adding the faster response that is needed. 

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## dcoscina

Just finished downloading. Wow! what a beautiful sound! Totally worth the $162 I paid. A short little thing here using the strings and Phil Glass piano from Labs. Fun.


----------



## JBW

Vik said:


> Agree, John – nice work by JBW, but I've always been thinking that the Holberg Suite must be one of the most difficult pieces to mock up convincingly.
> 
> One particular chamber orchestra (they've actually often performed it with between 17 and 21 players) has performed that piece so many times that they most likely could perform it live while being drunk, asleep, lobotomized – and _dancing_, but that's the exception.
> 
> I guess a main key to make it sound large enough with few players is to only use one bass player, a trick that I believe Seiji Ozawa was one of the first to pioneer for the Holberg Suite.



Thanks, Vik. Great share... That Norwegian group is a lot of fun! I had them in mind while playing in those few bars of Grieg. I'm also partial to the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra recording from the 80's. Both groups are definitely worth a listen for anybody interested in the Holberg suite.

All the big (and small) symphonies have done Holberg... And they're usually good for a listen. I've even enjoyed hearing student performances of the Holberg. What a masterpiece by Grieg! I am keen on chamber orchestra performances for this music. And I suspect Grieg himself considered it an anachronism that belonged in the time of Mozart & Haydn.

And, hey... For me, just about any string band performance beats the original piano version! Perhaps even samples... *gasp*


----------



## JBW

Batrawi said:


> It can respond quite fast when you increase the tightness knob.


Pro tip! Thanks, Batrawi.

This reminds me of when I asked Spitfire customer support for help with one of their libraries... The golden advice was "Have you tried the ADSR knobs?" And it worked a treat! This was not long after I bought my first midi keyboard a few years back. Fortunately they didn't take it for granted that just because I bought their products that I had any idea how to use them! Hahaha! Bless Spitfire Audio and their customer support!


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel

muziksculp said:


> SAS sound better now after you layered them with some short articulations, they sound more acrobatic
> 
> Oh.. if I may ask, what Library, and string short articulation did you layer with SAS Legato ?
> 
> You did a very nice job at keeping the shorts very transparent in the layering, I guess they are mixed in very low volume, but still adding the faster response that is needed.
> 
> Thanks for sharing.


Thank you. Those were shorts from Appassionata's vn2, different ones at different points, at about half velocity, delayed by 65ms (relative to longs).


----------



## muziksculp

dcoscina said:


> Just finished downloading. Wow! what a beautiful sound! Totally worth the $162 I paid. A short little thing here using the strings and Phil Glass piano from Labs. Fun.


Hi @dcoscina ,

Congratulations on your new Strings Library, SAS.

I can see you are really loving the way these strings sound, and Thanks for sharing the short demo you posted using them. Yup. These strings sound wonderful, you made a wise decision to buy them. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## muziksculp

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Thank you. Those were shorts from Appassionata's vn2, different ones at different points, at about half velocity, delayed by 65ms (relative to longs).


Thanks for the helpful feedback.


----------



## dcoscina

Another quick little track using this library (and the Phil Glass piano)


----------



## Jack Weaver

Previously in this thread, I did a little thing showing Appassionata's fast notes capabilities.

Here's a sketch or a start of a longer piece using its slower, quieter side - Mix 1 mic, no layering of other libraries, no fx, a tad of reverb. It's real short so it shouldn't tax anyone's attention span:

.


----------



## CT

I have been feeling quite rusty with composing recently, so this was kind of exhausting... but I love the library.


----------



## dcoscina

Kinda feeling the Lalo Schifrin vibe tonight so I used these strings in a different context. I tried adding some Austin Saxes to this (thanks again @ChrisSiuMusic!!) but I couldn't find room for them to do some fills.


----------



## jazzman7

Michaelt said:


> I have been feeling quite rusty with composing recently, so this was kind of exhausting... but I love the library.



Wonderful!


----------



## CT

jazzman7 said:


> Wonderful!


Thank you. It will be some time before I can hear it clearly enough to like or dislike it, but I do know that the way this library responds to the same old way I've been playing VIs for years is a dream. There is such a feeling of control and expressivity, and I'm realizing that I didn't even make use of all of that dynamic range. Should have cleaned up some pesky frequencies in the tree though, damn. Next time.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Michaelt said:


> I have been feeling quite rusty with composing recently, so this was kind of exhausting... but I love the library.



I feel like a repeating record, Mike...but that's lovely. I wish that was my "rusty" level.


----------



## sinkd

This might be the best $161.85 I have ever spent. Wow.


----------



## Evans

Certainly seeing a lot more user examples for this than other releases. Can't wait to sit down and actually try it out!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

dcoscina said:


> Kinda feeling the Lalo Schifrin vibe tonight so I used these strings in a different context. I tried adding some Austin Saxes to this (thanks again @ChrisSiuMusic!!) but I couldn't find room for them to do some fills.



This was just awesome! I love it 🙂


----------



## dcoscina

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> This was just awesome! I love it 🙂


Thanks for listening. It’s a work in progress


----------



## CT

Alex Fraser said:


> I feel like a repeating record, Mike...but that's lovely. I wish that was my "rusty" level.


Thanks man. It's just been such a drag to finish anything that doesn't _have_ to get done for a while now, a little bit dispiriting. Think I'm coming out of that funk, finally.


----------



## dylanmixer

Is it really THAT good? I already have BBCSO, Chamber Strings, Century Strings 2.0, and Jaeger. I'm quite happy with the sounds that these libraries produce, so my question is does the legato programming and dynamic layers of AS really blow the socks off all of these libraries?


----------



## jbuhler

dylanmixer said:


> Is it really THAT good? I already have BBCSO, Chamber Strings, Century Strings 2.0, and Jaeger. I'm quite happy with the sounds that these libraries produce, so my question is does the legato programming and dynamic layers of AS really blow the socks off all of these libraries?


If you are happy with what you have, I'd say you don't need it. That's a good general principle with buying libraries. If you aren't dissatisfied with what you have and you aren't hearing something that you want that your current libraries can't do as well or as easy, then it's probably best to give the library a pass.

For me, SAS is very good at what it does and has, I think, a distinct aesthetic sensibility that sets it apart even from other SF libraries. But that might not be at all what your music needs.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

dylanmixer said:


> Is it really THAT good? I already have BBCSO, Chamber Strings, Century Strings 2.0, and Jaeger. I'm quite happy with the sounds that these libraries produce, so my question is does the legato programming and dynamic layers of AS really blow the socks off all of these libraries?


Judging from the demos people are posting, SAS just has a different sound compared to SCS etc.; it’s a little more towards CSS/Vista territory. And the legato sounds better. So IMO it’s not about “blowing the socks off” existing SF libraries.


----------



## CT

dylanmixer said:


> Is it really THAT good? I already have BBCSO, Chamber Strings, Century Strings 2.0, and Jaeger. I'm quite happy with the sounds that these libraries produce, so my question is does the legato programming and dynamic layers of AS really blow the socks off all of these libraries?


Yes. Chamber Strings the least so, but still yes.


----------



## jazzman7

Michaelt said:


> Thanks man. It's just been such a drag to finish anything that doesn't _have_ to get done for a while now, a little bit dispiriting. Think I'm coming out of that funk, finally.


I know exactly what you mean. I've been finding it difficult to just sit down and write coherently without some kind of fire being lit under me. That was not always the case. I'm glad to see you create something fine like this in spite of the difficulties. Makes it a little easier for me to KBO!


----------



## gzapper

Given the sale this week, what are peoples views on Abbey Road vs Hans Zimmer vs Appasionata as a general sectional string library vs BBC or other choices?


----------



## cmillar

I'm loving the 'playability' of the strings in Appassionata. 

Very inspiring, and creative, just being able to play/record without having to spend days figuring out a choreographed routine of left-handed key switching and other gymnastics just to play in a convincing string line.

And, with a beautiful string section sound that can cover a lot of ground on it's own or mixed in with some other libraries.

The 'playability' is what attracted me to Kirk Hunter's libraries years ago. So glad to find Spitfire is in tune with what musician/composers need and want.


----------



## babylonwaves

gzapper said:


> Given the sale this week, what are peoples views on Abbey Road vs Hans Zimmer vs Appasionata as a general sectional string library vs BBC or other choices?


a simple comparison of the articulations in all those libraries should give you a good pointer. if you want a generic sectional library, I don't think Appassionata qualifies (or is intended to do so).


----------



## JBW

Holberg Air demo revisited...

View attachment Grieg --- Air from Holberg Suite.mp3


I put some more time into my little contribution to this thread in an attempt to improve the dynamics and balance of this short demo. This was all Appassionata Strings aside from the 4 CB pizz. from SCS.

I really like this new library. Sounds very good on its own. And it really adds something interesting when layering it with long techniques from other libraries. And not just other legato patches... Such as Olafur's chamber evos.


----------



## Vik

babylonwaves said:


> if you want a generic sectional library, I don't think Appassionata qualifies (or is intended to do so).


True, and the same goes for the HZ library as well.


----------



## EricValette

The same mockup project in progress previously posted on this thread but this time with reverb, EQ and mix in a full CS/SF/Performance Samples template.

AS is used here in combination with CSS and CSSS, my best try so far (section between 00:26 and 00:48 mainly).

AS mics positions are Outriggers 0.0 db, Tree -4,5 db.




edit : modified volume balance between string sections


----------



## jbuhler

Vik said:


> True, and the same goes for the HZ library as well.


HZS is far closer than SAS though.


----------



## RMH

Ask the users who purchased this instrument. If you have Nashville Scoring Strings, can you make a comparison?


----------



## doctoremmet

(that’s 17 PM CET)


----------



## lucor

BTW while I'm extremely happy that Spitfire is finally starting to adapt the whole 'offset' technology, the current implementation in Appassionata still seems a bit half baked.

It works just as expected for legato notes, but unfortunately 'non-legato' notes, e.g. the first note of a phrase seem to be not affected by the offset control at all. Meaning I still have to shift the first note of a legato passage to get the timing right, which defeats the whole purpose of having a fixed offset in the first place.

You can mitigate it a bit by dialing the 'Tightness' knob all the way down, which seems to bring the attack time of non-legato notes to about a -105ms offset (at least for Violins 1). But ideally, setting the legato offset knob to e.g. -140ms should also bring the attack time of non-legato notes to -140ms.


----------



## Tom Ferguson

lucor said:


> BTW while I'm extremely happy that Spitfire is finally starting to adapt the whole 'offset' technology, the current implementation in Appassionata still seems a bit half baked.
> 
> It works just as expected for legato notes, but unfortunately 'non-legato' notes, e.g. the first note of a phrase seem to be not affected by the offset control at all. Meaning I still have to shift the first note of a legato passage to get the timing right, which defeats the whole purpose of having a fixed offset in the first place.
> 
> You can mitigate it a bit by dialing the 'Tightness' knob all the way down, which seems to bring the attack time of non-legato notes to about a -105ms offset (at least for Violins 1). But ideally, setting the legato offset knob to e.g. -140ms should also bring the attack time of non-legato notes to -140ms.


Agreed! So close and much better, just not there yet.


----------



## Vik

To SAS owners who think that the legatos are better, but not there yet: does this refer to the actual legato transitions or to the sound/expressivity etc of the legato presets?


----------



## Karma

lucor said:


> BTW while I'm extremely happy that Spitfire is finally starting to adapt the whole 'offset' technology, the current implementation in Appassionata still seems a bit half baked.
> 
> It works just as expected for legato notes, but unfortunately 'non-legato' notes, e.g. the first note of a phrase seem to be not affected by the offset control at all. Meaning I still have to shift the first note of a legato passage to get the timing right, which defeats the whole purpose of having a fixed offset in the first place.
> 
> You can mitigate it a bit by dialing the 'Tightness' knob all the way down, which seems to bring the attack time of non-legato notes to about a -105ms offset (at least for Violins 1). But ideally, setting the legato offset knob to e.g. -140ms should also bring the attack time of non-legato notes to -140ms.


This is actually a fairly simple thing to do, and perhaps an oversight on the tightness controller. I wouldn't personally want the legato offset controller to change the note starts though, I feel like that should be kept separate. It's something I'll note with the guys for the next update.


----------



## Alex2718

SAS sounds great with some James Horner - though sorely missing some nice portamento transitions...


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel

Karma said:


> This is actually a fairly simple thing to do, and perhaps an oversight on the tightness controller. I wouldn't personally want the legato offset controller to change the note starts though, I feel like that should be kept separate. It's something I'll note with the guys for the next update.


I might be misunderstanding, but what I believe many of us want, is not the ability to "cut into" the short articulations, but a way to delay "shorts" so that time offset would be the same for all the articulations (and thus easily correctable in the DAW).


----------



## Karma

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> I might be misunderstanding, but what I believe many of us want, is not the ability to "cut into" the short articulations, but a way to delay "shorts" so that time offset would be the same for all the articulations (and thus easily correctable in the DAW).


That's actually exactly what the Tightness controller does currently, at 100% it is set as far in as you'd want to go, but as you bring the controller back you get more offset. Essentially what I'm noting here is being able to use that to match to the legato offset.


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel

Having used Appassionata for a week now, I really like how different articulations are balanced in terms of volume, it makes transitioning between articulation easier.


----------



## jbuhler

Karma said:


> That's actually exactly what the Tightness controller does currently, at 100% it is set as far in as you'd want to go, but as you bring the controller back you get more offset. Essentially what I'm noting here is being able to use that to match to the legato offset.


I would want what I see in the midi to correspond with what I hear, so if you need a negative track delay to get the notes following the legato to fall properly on the note start of the midi note in the piano roll, that the start of the first note of legato sequence, likewise appears at the start of its midi note and the shorts appear similarly when the notes appear in the midi. So in all cases you set the negative track delay and then all notes sound as they appear in the piano roll. The principle should be is you hear what you see and the negative track delay and scripting takes care of the alignment so I don’t have to worry about moving notes or fiddling with tightness controller on a per articulation basis.


----------



## lucor

Karma said:


> This is actually a fairly simple thing to do, and perhaps an oversight on the tightness controller. I wouldn't personally want the legato offset controller to change the note starts though, I feel like that should be kept separate. It's something I'll note with the guys for the next update.


Thanks again, Luke! Sure, the more control the better!


----------



## artomatic

Boy, am I missing portamento in the lower register!


----------



## Tom Ferguson

Karma said:


> This is actually a fairly simple thing to do, and perhaps an oversight on the tightness controller. I wouldn't personally want the legato offset controller to change the note starts though, I feel like that should be kept separate. It's something I'll note with the guys for the next update.


It would be great if you could also give us the ability to bring back even more of the legato sample via the legato offset for more latency but improved transitions a la cinematic studio libraries (with the tightness controller able to match it). Unless for some reason there is no benefit to be gain with these samples for some reason?


----------



## Casiquire

Tom Ferguson said:


> It would be great if you could also give us the ability to bring back even more of the legato sample via the legato offset for more latency but improved transitions a la cinematic studio libraries (with the tightness controller able to match it). Unless for some reason there is no benefit to be gain with these samples for some reason?


Is that not what's happening? Otherwise i don't see the point of the higher latency


----------



## Tom Ferguson

Casiquire said:


> Is that not what's happening? Otherwise i don't see the point of the higher latency


Sorry, is _what_ not what's happening?


----------



## Casiquire

Tom Ferguson said:


> Sorry, is _what_ not what's happening?


Exposure of more of the legato transition. Isn't there a latency of well over 100ms?


----------



## Tom Ferguson

Casiquire said:


> Exposure of more of the legato transition. Isn't there a latency of well over 100ms?


Up to 150ms. For example CSS' slow legato goes back to 333ms. Maybe there are reasons this isn't applicable with these samples?


----------



## Casiquire

Sure but that much of a delay isn't always necessary, 150 is quite a lot and i think that's the reason for the delay


----------



## jbuhler

Tom Ferguson said:


> Up to 150ms. For example CSS' slow legato goes back to 333ms. Maybe there are reasons this isn't applicable with these samples?


I don’t think SAS has a slow legato like CSS so there’s no need for that kind of delay.


----------



## holywilly

In real world, the noticeable latency for legato transition occurs in larger intervals and crossing strings, at least in my recording experience; and SAS capture this quite natural to my ears. 

Sometimes we are spoiled by how samples sound instead of the performances by real players. And yes, I’m talking about myself.


----------



## Zanshin

holywilly said:


> Sometimes we are spoiled by how samples sound instead of the performances by real players. And yes, I’m talking about myself.


I agree you are spoiled.


----------



## Casiquire

Tom Ferguson said:


> Up to 150ms. For example CSS' slow legato goes back to 333ms. Maybe there are reasons this isn't applicable with these samples?


For context on why i think 150 is more than enough for the benefits of a more exposed transition, Vista has only about a 120ms delay and still gets the benefits. It depends on how the library was designed more than a specific amount of ms


----------



## holywilly

I’m happened to like less delay for legato transitions when I started recording my own scores years ago. 

After years of writing and recording, I realize the expressiveness and emotion of music are coming from the hearts of composers and players, samples are always the tools to translate ideas.


----------



## Tom Ferguson

jbuhler said:


> I don’t think SAS has a slow legato like CSS so there’s no need for that kind of delay.


Well IIRC there is no actual difference in the samples between the slow and faster legatos only how much it's cut into, but do you mean the legato that was recorded is much slower (over 2x slower) I presume?


----------



## Simeon

If you are a Unify user, I have just "Unified" Appassionata.
I have of course provided the factory patches but also separate patches per articulation, along with a full ensemble patch. You can grab it from the Plugin Guru Forum posting here:





More Unified Spitfire Libraries


****Abbey Road ONE and Film Scoring Selections Just Added***** Hello Guru Nation,I am very excited to be learning more about Unify and building "Uni...



forums.pluginguru.com





I am really enjoying using Appassionata, it is a really gorgeous library.

Joyfully,
Simeon


----------



## Tom Ferguson

Casiquire said:


> For context on why i think 150 is more than enough for the benefits of a more exposed transition, Vista has only about a 120ms delay and still gets the benefits. It depends on how the library was designed more than a specific amount of ms


Yep, could well be right. This is what I was wondering. There 'feels' like some sort of pre-transition magic that happens with CSS' slow legato, but that could well just be an aural illusion or something I'm misattributing. And either way it could just be specific to those samples anyway. Like I said I'm not sure!


----------



## Casiquire

Tom Ferguson said:


> Yep, could well be right. This is what I was wondering. There 'feels' like some sort of pre-transition magic that happens with CSS' slow legato, but that could well just be an aural illusion or something I'm misattributing. And either way it could just be specific to those samples anyway. Like I said I'm not sure!


Same, they're a little tight lipped about it all!


----------



## jbuhler

Tom Ferguson said:


> Well IIRC there is no actual difference in the samples between the slow and faster legatos only how much it's cut into, but do you mean the legato that was recorded is much slower (over 2x slower) I presume?


I don’t have CSS, but doesn’t it have two recorded legato speeds and three modes of legato presentation that is determined by whether the long legato sample is cut into?

I think SAS only has one speed, and the full legato is nowhere as long as the longest CSS legato, which is why SAS doesn’t need as much latency. I suspect SAS is cutting into the legato sample adaptively once notes exceed some set speed because while SAS handles speed better than I expected I think SF would advertise a runs mode or some such if it had legato samples that were specifically designed for fast passage work.


----------



## mybadmemory

@Karma

I believe what many in the community want, is to never have to move individual notes. I realize if you play everything in and never quantize, this might not be a problem, since you learn how to play each patch and adapt to the way it’s meant to be played, but many people program their notes in on the grid or hard quantize their recordings.

Those people also tend to work with track-predelays for all tracks in their templates to get the audio from each and every one to always play in time with each other and straight on the grid. Some libraries (like Audio Imperia and Impact Soundworks) have adopted an “always in sync” approach where all samples of an instrument will always use the same amount of pre-delay, regardless of if it’s a long, a short, or a legato transition.

By setting this value to zero you get a very payable patch that you can use to record with, and by setting it to its maximum you get realistic playback with maximum pre-roll for each note. As long as you know the value, you can pre-delay your track with the same amount and any note of any articulation will play in time with the rest of your session.

With Spitfire libraries (at least the ones I own) different articulations tend to use different pre-delays, which basically forces you to split them up to separate tracks if you want to use track-pre-delay and have everything play in time while being quantized. I believe what people is after is a way to just get the same pre-delay on all articulations and transitions on a patch, to be able to use it on one track without having to nudge any individual notes, while key switching between articulations.

This would also be very handy with your extended or performance legato instruments where short notes and legato transitions usually have different pre-delays even within the same patch. I understand this is to optimize for playability (short notes need to respond quicker to be playable, and legato transitions aren’t as fuzzy), but I think many would appreciate the option to just have both short notes and legato transitions play with the same amount of pre-delay, tweakeble with the tightness setting (that should then preferably also tell you the number of ms of the offset so you can compensate on your track with the same value), for these kinds of performance patches as well.

With BBCSO for example. If I want to hard quantize my parts I need to put different articulations on separate tracks with separate pre-delays since all them use a different one. And with the extended or performance legato patches, if a line make use of both short notes (that tigger directly) and legato transitions (that use a longer pre-delay) I will need to manually offset either the shorts or the legato transitions on the grid to get both of them to play in time. The same is also true for the first note of any legato phrase if it uses the staccato overlay.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

jbuhler said:


> I don’t have CSS, but doesn’t it have two recorded legato speeds and three modes of legato presentation that is determined by whether the long legato sample is cut into?
> 
> I think SAS only has one speed, and the full legato is nowhere as long as the longest CSS legato, which is why SAS doesn’t need as much latency. I suspect SAS is cutting into the legato sample adaptively once notes exceed some set speed because while SAS handles speed better than I expected I think SF would advertise a runs mode or some such if it had legato samples that were specifically designed for fast passage work.


CSS has one recorded legato speed, plus portamento.


----------



## Tom Ferguson

Sarah Mancuso said:


> CSS has one recorded legato speed, plus portamento.


Thanks, I was just about to @ you : )


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

With regards to Spitfire Audio's Appassionata Strings 'Impulse Legato' , I asked about it on the Spitfire Forum, and got this feedback from a moderator .

*Quote :*

"_ the Impulse Legato is similar to the Performance Legato found in other libraries, but has a few key differences that are unique to Appassionata. The main difference is that the Impulse Legato in Appassionata plays legato transitions based on interval, as well as playing speed and intensity. This is covered in further detail on page 23 of the user manual._ "

And here is what page 23 of the user manual mentions :

"LEGATO

The core legato technique - a combination
of slurred & détaché intervals, in up to 3
dynamics (pp, mf, ff), with repetition based
alt-attacks, vibrato and velocity controlled
switching between legato types.

Violins 1, Violins 2 and Cellos also include a
particularly unique and intense Portamento,
on the top string (from high E on Violins,
from high A on Cellos) for intervals over a
5th.

LEGATO INFORMATION
CC1 Dynamic peak points:
ff - 127 (100%)
f - 95 (75%)
mf - 64 (50%)
mp - 31 (25%)
pp - 9 (7.5%)

Slurred transitions for all instruments
sections occur between Velocities 1-99 and
overlapping the MIDI notes.

Détaché transitions for all instruments occur
between Velocities 100-127 and overlapping
the MIDI notes.

Portamento transitions are
available for Violins 1, Violins 2 and Cellos
between Velocities 120-127 and overlapping
the MIDI notes, but only from E4 on Violins
for intervals over a 5th, and from A2 on
Cellos for intervals over a 5th.

The Legato Offset control changes all
interval types so you can go from 100ms
(responsive) to 150ms (more latency but
sounds more natural).

LEGATO SLURRED
A slurred legato, with 3 dynamics of slurred
intervals and repetition based alt-attacks.

SUSTAIN
A sustained note, recorded at 5 discrete
dynamics (pp, mp, mf, f, ff) with Vibrato, and
4 round robbins.

HAIRPIN SHORT
A short hairpin, utilising the alt-attacks.

HAIRPIN MEDIUM
A medium hairpin, utilising the body of the
alt-attacks.

HAIRPIN BOW CHANGE
A long hairpin, featuring the bow-change
used in capturing the sustain.

GLANCING ATTACK
A short brushed bow, ideal for accenting
notes."


----------



## jbuhler

Sarah Mancuso said:


> CSS has one recorded legato speed, plus portamento.


Thanks!


----------



## RMH

muziksculp said:


> Portamento transitions are
> available for Violins 1, Violins 2 and Cellos
> between Velocities 120-127 and overlapping
> the MIDI notes, but only from E4 on Violins
> for intervals over a 5th, and from A2 on
> Cellos for intervals over a 5th.


hum…Viola is not included.
Too bad. Why didn't they include it?


----------



## dcoscina

Did another version of my Scorpio with the Austin Saxes, and I added SSW Flutes a2 and BBCSO Horns a4 to double the lower strings part.


----------



## Karma

Tom Ferguson said:


> It would be great if you could also give us the ability to bring back even more of the legato sample via the legato offset for more latency but improved transitions a la cinematic studio libraries (with the tightness controller able to match it). Unless for some reason there is no benefit to be gain with these samples for some reason?


This was indeed an intentional limit in this case, as anything further gave diminishing returns. This kind of thing very much depends on the content recorded as to where the 'limit' is. That's not to say we couldn't do it, but the more you increase this value the more intensive the patches are going to become, so it's more an attempt to find a healthy balance.

CSS is indeed 1 speed of legato, with 3 different sample start positions on the intervals (provided you're using advanced mode).


----------



## Karma

RMH said:


> hum…Viola is not included.
> Too bad. Why didn't they include it?


Only so much we can record! We'll certainly be going far more in depth when it comes to the Abbey Road modular libraries, but for now keeping this one at the price it is means making sure we use the recording time efficiently to capture what we really need first. The Sul's are more a special bonus in this case!

My priority was making sure we got multiple dynamics for every slurred interval before anything else, and then working through detache as 2nd priority.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

@Karma I don't know if you're here "officially" as a Spitfire rep or you're just doing it on your free time, but either way, it is very much appreciated and insightful to have you so willing to answer various questions!


----------



## alcorey

dcoscina said:


> Did another version of my Scorpio with the Austin Saxes, and I added SSW Flutes a2 and BBCSO Horns a4 to double the lower strings part.


@dcoscina - A little OT but may I ask - how do you find the playability and usefulness of the Austin saxes?


----------



## dcoscina

alcorey said:


> @dcoscina - A little OT but may I ask - how do you find the playability and usefulness of the Austin saxes?


Not bad . I haven’t done a full fledged jazz chart but I like them.


----------



## jbuhler

ALittleNightMusic said:


> @Karma I don't know if you're here "officially" as a Spitfire rep or you're just doing it on your free time, but either way, it is very much appreciated and insightful to have you so willing to answer various questions!


+1 Yes, @Karma, very appreciated and very helpful!


----------



## Raphioli

ALittleNightMusic said:


> @Karma I don't know if you're here "officially" as a Spitfire rep or you're just doing it on your free time, but either way, it is very much appreciated and insightful to have you so willing to answer various questions!


I'd like to second this too.
Thank you!


----------



## Casiquire

I'm chiming in on all the thanks! The interaction has been great


----------



## Karma

No problem at all. I am certainly not here officially, but just chiming in where I can


----------



## Tom Ferguson

Karma said:


> This was indeed an intentional limit in this case, as anything further gave diminishing returns. This kind of thing very much depends on the content recorded as to where the 'limit' is. That's not to say we couldn't do it, but the more you increase this value the more intensive the patches are going to become, so it's more an attempt to find a healthy balance.
> 
> CSS is indeed 1 speed of legato, with 3 different sample start positions on the intervals (provided you're using advanced mode).


Thanks for the response! Loving all this communication. It does wonders for building trust and confidence. 

Regarding your response; that definitely makes sense I think. Is that intensive on just ram, or CPU too? 

I guess I'd just like to vote for maybe pushing the balance a touch closer to intensive but a bit more realistic for the more uncompromising modular series. Though I'd imagine if you record faster and slower legatos/portamentos for AR modular, you'll have to allow the tightness settings to go further back for everything to stay in sync anyway?


----------



## Karma

Tom Ferguson said:


> Thanks for the response! Loving all this communication. It does wonders for building trust and confidence.
> 
> Regarding your response; that definitely makes sense I think. Is that intensive on just ram, or CPU too?
> 
> I guess I'd just like to vote for maybe pushing the balance a touch closer to intensive but a bit more realistic for the more uncompromising modular series. Though I'd imagine if you record faster and slower legatos/portamentos for AR modular, you'll have to allow the tightness settings to go further back for everything to stay in sync anyway?


It'll be a bit of both RAM and CPU!

I don't think there's a lot we can specify in regards to the modular at this time, but all I can say is it'll be far more comprehensive and detailed. Ideally I think having the "ms" display on the Tightness controller as it does on the Legato Offset would be the best solution here, and as you say, allowing it to go as far back as the legato.


----------



## Tom Ferguson

Karma said:


> It'll be a bit of both RAM and CPU!
> 
> I don't think there's a lot we can specify in regards to the modular at this time, but all I can say is it'll be far more comprehensive and detailed. Ideally I think having the "ms" display on the Tightness controller as it does on the Legato Offset would be the best solution here, and as you say, allowing it to go as far back at the legato.


Awesome stuff. Seriously! Thanks : )


----------



## Scalms

can someone post an example of SAS layered with SCS? perhaps Violins1 melody, and then something with the cellos? I don't think I've seen this test yet, but perhaps I just missed it,

thanks in advance!


----------



## mussnig

Scalms said:


> can someone post an example of SAS layered with SCS? perhaps Violins1 melody, and then something with the cellos? I don't think I've seen this test yet, but perhaps I just missed it,
> 
> thanks in advance!


Well, probably not exactly what you are looking for, but Paul Thomson recently posted a very nice video about this:


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

dcoscina said:


> Did another version of my Scorpio with the Austin Saxes, and I added SSW Flutes a2 and BBCSO Horns a4 to double the lower strings part.


The style reminds me of the intro song for Homeland:




It has the same "chaotic", jazzy musicality in it, at least that's how I hear it


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

If you don't want to go through all 74 pages just to check audio demos, here's a bunch of them. It's the demos I personally found most useful / those that got the most likes. Here goes:

borisb2 - Live noodling





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


From the manual: "with repetition based alt-attacks" What does this mean? A legato for repeated notes similar to the legato of CSS?




vi-control.net





Karma - Shawshank mockup





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


Here's a Shawshank mockup I did during the development stage for this one. Modwheel doesn't even hit higher than mf in this example too. Really shows off the beautiful soft side I feel!




vi-control.net





Jdiggity1





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


So it’s legato only (and some Hairpin)… nothing that SCS doesn’t cover. So why bother? I don’t get it tbh^^ This one has a warmer, more romantic sound




vi-control.net





Jdiggity1 - Re-bow trick





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


I'm not sure if this will be useful to anyone here (and there's not much to it with so few articulations), but I threw together a Reaticulate bank while adding this to my template and figured I'd share:




vi-control.net





holywilly - noodling





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


Oh God, can't stop noodling with Appassionata strings, here's another quick write. Noodling done, back to work.




vi-control.net





Scamper - a short legato comparison with SCS, SSS, BBCSO, CSS and Vista





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


I think rebowing of the same note should be a requirement with modern string libraries. It's not a decoration, it's a technique. It opens up so many more possibilities.




vi-control.net





holywilly - a test of SAS of the dynamic ranges, repeated notes, and legato transition variations





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


So one thing, I wonder why they switched this. In BBCSO port is triggered by softly touching the keys, regular legato by slightly harder dynamics. The ports in this new library are triggered by hitting the keys harder, and also you have to slam them. It doesn't make sense from a tactile sense...




vi-control.net





sundrowned - faster cello passages





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


Thank you for making a good comparison.👍 Balance during(ex. mix) the each part is also important, but SAS has some mistimed parts, perhaps because midi editing is the original CSS. If you wrote a note based on the CSS, it doesn't seem like you're moving the area and comparing it. Basically, I...




vi-control.net





Scamper - "SCS/SSS on their own, then layered with SAS and finally SAS only for the legatos"





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


Thank you for making a good comparison.👍 Balance during(ex. mix) the each part is also important, but SAS has some mistimed parts, perhaps because midi editing is the original CSS. If you wrote a note based on the CSS, it doesn't seem like you're moving the area and comparing it. Basically, I...




vi-control.net





OleJoergensen - a short classical sounding divisi except





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


Holy Moly! I'm getting 7.5 Mbps and have been downloading for 13.5 hours, with an ETA of 11 hours 43 minutes to go. I'd have been quicker to order it by post! Or fly to England and pick it up :)




vi-control.net





Ian Dorsch - Speed write with SAS Vln 1 & 2 (Mix 1), Symphonic Motions, and some Tundra Low Shorts





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


Over on the Spitfire webpage listening to the demos from Blakus and others, also listening to Pauls walkthrough then listening to samples of the same library on this thread feels like two different library's are being used entirely, what i hear on the Spitfire webpage are very smooth legatos...




vi-control.net





Scamper - Legato demo - SAS, CSS, Vista, SCS, SSS





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


Over on the Spitfire webpage listening to the demos from Blakus and others, also listening to Pauls walkthrough then listening to samples of the same library on this thread feels like two different library's are being used entirely, what i hear on the Spitfire webpage are very smooth legatos...




vi-control.net





jonathanwright - a hybrid track, with the strings in context





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


I also really like how it combines with MSS Shorts. Here I'm using the MSS surround and stage mic with a dash of close mixed with SAS with the Outriggers and a dash of mids. Seventh heaven scoring stage verb on MSS and no verb on SAS. Ok, I'm probably done testing for now. And need to get...




vi-control.net





AEF - Downton Abbey - CSS, Berlin, SAS





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


Yes!!! or even time warping to listen to a favorite piece in a slightly different tempo! ;) I've been doing that since I was a kid, putting 45rpms on 33. So many secrets were revealed. Plus it was fun getting Barry Gib to sound like Paul Robeson.




vi-control.net





Jack Weaver - fast VLN1





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


Thanks guys, that helped. So this term deals with dynamics (crescendo, diminuendo). Got it now. Therefore SAS is restricted to legato play. So for a first string library investment should I be looking for something more comprehensive/flexible? Or is this the way to go.




vi-control.net





Baronvonheadless - The Masquerade





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


i genuinely can't tell the difference. Just me? You might not be able to hear it in the mp3. The differences are subtle, but in aifs, the transitions between dynamic layers become increasingly bumpy the more relaxed smoothing is. It also seems to me that relaxed is a bit easier on the CPU. Even...




vi-control.net





muk - Sunt lacrimae rerum for String Orchestra (slow, lyrical side of the legato)





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


i genuinely can't tell the difference. Just me? You might not be able to hear it in the mp3. The differences are subtle, but in aifs, the transitions between dynamic layers become increasingly bumpy the more relaxed smoothing is. It also seems to me that relaxed is a bit easier on the CPU. Even...




vi-control.net





dcoscina - Primal Instinct





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


Maybe this could be useful to someone. Same simple melody in three octaves, with lots of repeating notes. Programmed with Afflatus, Appassionata and CSS. Middle voice (4th oct.) is doubled by tuning and doubling vn2 sections in Appassionata and CSS and by patch layering in Afflatus. It was...




vi-control.net





dcoscina - Minimal





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


Maybe this could be useful to someone. Same simple melody in three octaves, with lots of repeating notes. Programmed with Afflatus, Appassionata and CSS. Middle voice (4th oct.) is doubled by tuning and doubling vn2 sections in Appassionata and CSS and by patch layering in Afflatus. It was...




vi-control.net





Michaelt - The Departure





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


Previously in this thread, I did a little thing showing Appassionata's fast notes capabilities. Here's a sketch or a start of a longer piece using its slower, quieter side - Mix 1 mic, no layering of other libraries, no fx, a tad of reverb. It's real short so it shouldn't tax anyone's attention...




vi-control.net





EricValette - Star Wars





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


if you want a generic sectional library, I don't think Appassionata qualifies (or is intended to do so). True, and the same goes for the HZ library as well.




vi-control.net





dcoscina - Scorpio V2





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


Exposure of more of the legato transition. Isn't there a latency of well over 100ms? Up to 150ms. For example CSS' slow legato goes back to 333ms. Maybe there are reasons this isn't applicable with these samples?




vi-control.net


----------



## dcoscina

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> The style reminds me of the intro song for Homeland:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has the same "chaotic", jazzy musicality in it, at least that's how I hear it



I think this is more modern than mine but it does have some similarities. Sounds like Isham actually. Sorry I’m not familiar with this show so I’m not sure who the composer is.


----------



## RudyS

Ok, I bit the bullet and decided to buy this one. This really will be my last library for a while, but I don't regret it. I get much smoother results than I have with SStS.


----------



## IOnian Streams

RudyS said:


> Ok, I bit the bullet and decided to buy this one. This really will be my last library for a while, but I don't regret it. I get much smoother results than I have with SStS.


I also have SStS and have struggled with its "bumpiness." So, this is good news. Thanks @RudyS.


----------



## doctoremmet

No idea if this was uploaded before (apologies if it was!). I quite enjoyed this demo.


----------



## Evans

doctoremmet said:


> No idea if this was uploaded before (apologies if it was!). I quite enjoyed this demo.


Looks like the user didn't like it so much, based on the video description. Quote from the end:



> It would have been a good library 10 years ago, but not today.


----------



## doctoremmet

Evans said:


> Looks like the user didn't like it so much, based on the video description. Quote from the end:


I noticed. Still, she did a decent job creating a piece that I enjoyed.


----------



## kevjazz

I was curious to see what people thought of this library. I'm primarily a keyboard player who writes. So, I'm somewhat bummed that there are no ensemble patches for strings across the keyboard. that said, I understand why those don't exist as that would be counter to what this library is supposed to do. I get the sense that the best application of this is to write lines in cases where divisi is required in the context of the original Spitfire Symphonic Strings. Am I way off the mark here? too bad there's no sordino in this library. Thoughts? Guidance?


----------



## RSK

Am I the only one who is disappointed in this release? I tried writing a piece with it yesterday, combining it with SCS for shorts and SSO for brass and winds. This should have worked wonderfully but it didn't. In particular there is an intermittent bug where the legato (non-slurred) patch sounds like a severe fortepiano at certain velocities, with a loud attack and then dropping out to almost nothing. I can sometimes re-create the bug, sometimes not.


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel

RSK said:


> ...In particular there is an intermittent bug where the legato (non-slurred) patch sounds like a severe fortepiano at certain velocities, with a loud attack and then dropping out to almost nothing. I can sometimes re-create the bug, sometimes not.


Don't know if it's related, but I found that B4 and C5 on vn2 sound particularly resonant sometimes (I even had to use dynamic EQ on those occasions).


----------



## Batrawi

RSK said:


> Am I the only one who is disappointed in this release? I tried writing a piece with it yesterday, combining it with SCS for shorts and SSO for brass and winds. This should have worked wonderfully but it didn't. In particular there is an intermittent bug where the legato (non-slurred) patch sounds like a severe fortepiano at certain velocities, with a loud attack and then dropping out to almost nothing. I can sometimes re-create the bug, sometimes not.


I don't understand, so you mean it's not working well with SCS and SSO just based on the occasional legato bug you're experiencing? (coz that doesn't make sense to me 🤷‍♂️) Or do you mean they can't be mixed well, coz that also would be strange since they're recorded in the same hall


----------



## RSK

kevjazz said:


> I was curious to see what people thought of this library. I'm primarily a keyboard player who writes. So, I'm somewhat bummed that there are no ensemble patches for strings across the keyboard. that said, I understand why those don't exist as that would be counter to what this library is supposed to do. I get the sense that the best application of this is to write lines in cases where divisi is required in the context of the original Spitfire Symphonic Strings. Am I way off the mark here? too bad there's no sordino in this library. Thoughts? Guidance?


I wouldn't say that it's necessarily for divisi situations; I've found that it combines well with either SSS or SCS. The caveat is that you'll have to level match because Appassionata Strings in the Spitfire Player is significantly louder by default than the Kontakt-based SSS and SCS.


----------



## RSK

Batrawi said:


> I don't understand, so you mean it's not working well with SCS and SSO just based on the occasional legato bug you're experiencing? (coz that doesn't make sense to me 🤷‍♂️) Or do you mean they can't be mixed well, coz that also would be strange since they're recorded in the same hall


Yes, I could have been clearer. In terms of the sound it does mix well (as one would expect) but the levels between AS and the others need to be matched first. Out of the box they don't match at all. 

The legato bug is an issue in terms of playability, making it a difficult replacement for the SCS or SSS legatos. I fully expect that Spitfire will fix this soon, but until then I'll have to keep using SCS.


----------



## Evans

Batrawi said:


> Or do you mean they can't be mixed well, coz that also would be strange since they're recorded in the same hall


Is this truly, always the case? I recall - perhaps I'm wrong - issues with certain buildups when layering Berlin Strings with Berlin Symphonic Strings.


----------



## cmillar

Some pretty 'picky' observations here. Afterall, this IS a sample library, and a damn good one at that.

Try hiring some real musicians for the same price tag that'll give you the same results.


----------



## RSK

cmillar said:


> Some pretty 'picky' observations here. Afterall, this IS a sample library, and a damn good one at that.
> 
> Try hiring some real musicians for the same price tag that'll give you the same results.


"Picky" is when you think the legatos between notes are too long, or too short, or the tonality between the two notes isn't as precise as it should be. Having a long note drop out after the first half second is a flaw.


----------



## Benbln

Another library will be out on the 10th. Oh man there are too much releases. Don’t know if I’ll buy Appassionata in the next two days…


----------



## Noeticus




----------



## jbuhler

RSK said:


> Yes, I could have been clearer. In terms of the sound it does mix well (as one would expect) but the levels between AS and the others need to be matched first. Out of the box they don't match at all.
> 
> The legato bug is an issue in terms of playability, making it a difficult replacement for the SCS or SSS legatos. I fully expect that Spitfire will fix this soon, but until then I'll have to keep using SCS.


Personally I haven't encountered the bug. Yes, SAS requires a different approach to CC1 and CC11 than other SF libraries, and you can't reuse midi the way you can layering SCS and SSS. And so it isn't as effective building a layered multi for real time playing, say. I also found that SAS took a bit of practice to get right because small moves on the modwheel have comparatively large effects and deciding which dynamic layers you want to use is a more important consideration than for other libraries.


----------



## jbuhler

Noeticus said:


>



Some interesting tidbits on the impulse legato in this video. Paul also says that the library itself has been in real development for at least two years.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

BenJbln030 said:


> Another library will be out on the 10th. Oh man there are too much releases. Don’t know if I’ll buy Appassionata in the next two days…


What library will be out on the 10th? Something from Spitfire or what?


----------



## Benbln

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> What library will be out on the 10th? Something from Spitfire or what?


Yes, they have an announcement on YouTube so you can activate an reminder but there is no further information about it just that a new library will be released and Homay Schmitz & Gaika will be part of the upcoming video on the 10th.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

BenJbln030 said:


> Yes, they have an announcement on YouTube so you can activate an reminder but there is no further information about it just that a new library will be released and Homay Schmitz & Gaika will be part of the upcoming video on the 10th.


Thanks


----------



## zwhita

Was about to purchase the library and thought to take notice of the Memory used for each instance in some of the video demos where it's visible.

Perhaps I'm not seeing it well, but it looks like Violins 1 is over 2GB by default? What could I expect for total memory usage of one instance for each section and three microphone/mix selections enabled for each instance? I have 32GB(about 27GB available for the DAW) and feel like I won't be able to use this library without expanding to 64GB.


----------



## RSK

zwhita said:


> Was about to purchase the library and thought to take notice of the Memory used for each instance in some of the video demos where it's visible.
> 
> Perhaps I'm not seeing it well, but it looks like Violins 1 is over 2GB by default? What could I expect for total memory usage of one instance for each section and three microphone/mix selections enabled for each instance? I have 32GB(about 27GB available for the DAW) and feel like I won't be able to use this library without expanding to 64GB.


That brings up a good question; with Kontakt you can control how much of a sample is loaded into memory and how much is streamed, but I've never noticed whether the Spitfire player has a similar feature. Anyone know?


----------



## Karma

zwhita said:


> Was about to purchase the library and thought to take notice of the Memory used for each instance in some of the video demos where it's visible.
> 
> Perhaps I'm not seeing it well, but it looks like Violins 1 is over 2GB by default? What could I expect for total memory usage of one instance for each section and three microphone/mix selections enabled for each instance? I have 32GB(about 27GB available for the DAW) and feel like I won't be able to use this library without expanding to 64GB.


Spitfire Player shares across instances, so in this case it will have been other instances in the background as well. For clarity here's the 1st Violins RAM usage on my system:






As soon as I load another instance and load up the 2nd Violins, it displays as this:






This isn't the 2nd's taking up 1.5GB. It's the combination of both the 1st and 2nd Violins.

You can change these values in Settings to adjust memory allocation:





(You can actually see my preload is higher - so if I had this at the default the RAM values would be even lower)

And finally, here's with a single instance of every instrument:






Considering the number of dynamics and different interval types, it's very streamlined. This was something I was very careful of whilst programming - it's as clean as I could possibly get it, without losing some of the useful functionality from the controllers!


----------



## zwhita

Ok great thanks. Would the 858 MB above for Violins 1 just be the default Mix1? And I assume if that's true, then 3 Mic/Mix sets enabled would be 2.6GB? That's still almost 13GB for all the sections open, half my available system memory. I think my preload size for BBCSO Core is 16,000 so it might be 11GB.


----------



## Karma

zwhita said:


> Ok great thanks. Would the 858 MB above for Violins 1 just be the default Mix1? And I assume if that's true, then 3 Mic/Mix sets enabled would be 2.6GB? That's still almost 13GB for all the sections open, half my available system memory. I think my preload size for BBCSO Core is 16,000 so it might be 11GB.


Yup, but that's a lot of mics across some samples which are very very detailed. Like I say we're talking up to 7 different interval groups in one Instrument, combined with 5 dynamic sustains, 4RR alt attack samples at 5 dynamics, 5 dynamics of releases, etc... I'm afraid with that level of detail comes a little more memory demand. This is why we have 4 mixes though!


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Adam Takacs

I often hear that Appassionata is mainly a legato library which lacks short articulations.
This is true in terms of usual shorts but the Hairpins are real golds, at least for me.
I mean, we have a lot of spiccato and staccato options in other libraries but truly expressive techniques are very rare in today’s cinematic world so I was very happy that Spitfire chose these at this library.
Hairpins function both as beautiful portatos and some kind of marcatos in the higher dynamic ranges.

I'm working on a classical piece, I used only Appassionata Strings so far and mainly the hairpins with glancing attack. There is still a lot of work to be done with it, but I think you can already hear how nicely these techniques can be used.

Appassionata is one of the most inspiring and best libraries I've ever bought. I hope that Spitfire will continue sampling various shorts because these are very-very important in my opinion.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Noeticus said:


>



Is it me, or is there suddenly lots of chatter about Andy Blaney going on? Maybe I am out of the loop on this, did he ever appear in public?


----------



## zwhita

Adam Takacs said:


> I often hear that Appassionata is mainly a legato library which lacks short articulations.
> This is true in terms of usual shorts but the Hairpins are real golds, at least for me.
> I mean, we have a lot of spiccato and staccato options in other libraries but truly expressive techniques are very rare in today’s cinematic world so I was very happy that Spitfire chose these at this library.
> Hairpins function both as beautiful portatos and some kind of marcatos in the higher dynamic ranges.


For approximating shorts, my understanding is to use the Glancing Attack articulation for intermediate quavers between much longer lines, then Sforzando or Marcato can be simulated by maximum velocity and modwheel, at note start on Hairpin Short, but you need modwheel "CC envelopes" that taper down from maximum for each note.
What I wonder is would the Violins 1 seem to have less definition in the attack transient because there are 8 players and not 6? Also would leveraging different Mic positions be useful in accentuating the attack?


----------



## aeliron

muziksculp said:


> Left or Right side ?


No need to be cheeky!


----------



## Adam Takacs

zwhita said:


> For approximating shorts, my understanding is to use the Glancing Attack articulation for intermediate quavers between much longer lines, then Sforzando or Marcato can be simulated by maximum velocity and modwheel, at note start on Hairpin Short, but you need modwheel "CC envelopes" that taper down from maximum for each note.
> What I wonder is would the Violins 1 seem to have less definition in the attack transient because there are 8 players and not 6? Also would leveraging different Mic positions be useful in accentuating the attack?


I didn't use the Glancing attack on its own but blended with haripin short where I needed more attack. It was the starting point by the way and I think Hairpin short with Glancing attack is a great sketching combination. I didn't notice a difference in attack of the Violins 1. I think, trying the different mic positions in that aspect is a good idea! I only used the Mix2 with some additional reverb.


----------



## muziksculp

I came across this Appass. Strings demo, it sounds wonderful


----------



## NoamL

zwhita said:


> Was about to purchase the library and thought to take notice of the Memory used for each instance in some of the video demos where it's visible.
> 
> Perhaps I'm not seeing it well, but it looks like Violins 1 is over 2GB by default? What could I expect for total memory usage of one instance for each section and three microphone/mix selections enabled for each instance? I have 32GB(about 27GB available for the DAW) and feel like I won't be able to use this library without expanding to 64GB.


Appassionata costs ~2 GB of RAM per mic signal - that's loading all 5 string sections, all articulations, with default sample-streaming settings.

This is lighter than, for instance, Cinematic Studio Strings which has more articulations and costs ~3 GB of RAM per mic signal. The difference is, with any Kontakt instrument, you can Global Purge your instances so they cost you next to nothing until you start playing notes. This is still a major advantage of Kontakt for folks with difficult RAM limits.

32GB is a respectable amount of RAM but I suggest setting up a VEPro template with all the libraries you use often, and then do a global purge on all the kontakt instances. You'll have to budget carefully for which instruments you include from samplers that can't yet purge RAM. Personally (with a 64gb VEPro machine) I used to allocate a large part of that budget to the unpurgeable Hollywood Strings, and now it's going to Appassionata.

The advantage of a VEPro template is that you can save it in a completely purged state, load it up each morning, work with it throughout the day, and then close it unsaved in the evening. You could have _way more_ than 32GB of samples in that VEPro template but since the instruments never fully load, you never hit that 32GB limit.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

So I was listening to this Badalamenti masterpiece this morning and thought, hey Appassionata Strings would be great for this. Probably. So gave it a try.


----------



## Vastman

MusicStudent said:


> SAS Neebee Question if I may. Is there a session template for Reaper and SAS available? Otherwise, can I assume it is one instance of the VST per track per articulation. That could be quite a few occurrences of the plugin. Is that right? I downloaded a few minutes ago


I suggest you get Unify from PluginGuru... You can layer sounds/articulations and assign kbd ranges for different instruments & each instance is assigned to a different thread. It's mind blowing and totally resolves All the issues I have with Spitfire half baked player


----------



## Vastman

Michaelt said:


> I have been feeling quite rusty with composing recently, so this was kind of exhausting... but I love the library.



It's obvious the library speaks to you! BEAUTIFUL.& Thank you... Your piece cinched it for me!


----------



## Vastman

Simeon said:


> If you are a Unify user, I have just "Unified" Appassionata.
> I have of course provided the factory patches but also separate patches per articulation, along with a full ensemble patch. You can grab it from the Plugin Guru Forum posting here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More Unified Spitfire Libraries
> 
> 
> ****Abbey Road ONE and Film Scoring Selections Just Added***** Hello Guru Nation,I am very excited to be learning more about Unify and building "Uni...
> 
> 
> 
> forums.pluginguru.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am really enjoying using Appassionata, it is a really gorgeous library.
> 
> Joyfully,
> Simeon


Thanks, Simeon! Skippy's gonna love ya! Unify is such a blessing when using Spitfire's half baked player... Being able to spread the different instruments across my 88 keys and save these presets is just the tip of Unify's awesomeness... Hope to see ur effort the next Livestream Saturday! ❤️


----------



## Vik

Noeticus said:


>



Pardon my lack of knowledge about this, but are these two faders controlling dynamics + vibrato or dynamics (CC1) + expression (CC11)? I'm curious, because I see that Paul Thompson are moving both of them, and since SAS has 5 dynamic laters, I would assume (or at least hope) that there wouldn't be a need to move both the expression and dynamics faders to control dynamics in the best possible way. Anyone?


----------



## CT

Vik said:


> Pardon my lack of knowledge about this, but are these two faders controlling dynamics + vibrato or dynamics (CC1) + expression (CC11)? I'm curious, because I see that Paul Thompson are moving both of them, and since SAS has 5 dynamic laters, I would assume (or at least hope) that there wouldn't be a need to move both the expression and dynamics faders to control dynamics in the best possible way. Anyone?


It's expression not vibrato. I don't personally feel the need to use expression simultaneously with this library in the way many others sort of force you to. It can be useful at the ends of phrases but doesn't feel necessary to me. In my demo a few pages back, I did not touch it at all.


----------



## Trevor Meier

Karma said:


> This is actually a fairly simple thing to do, and perhaps an oversight on the tightness controller. I wouldn't personally want the legato offset controller to change the note starts though, I feel like that should be kept separate. It's something I'll note with the guys for the next update.


Please please please… the unified offsets for every articulation in MSS is such a useful feature! Would love to see this become an industry standard (at least until we find a way for DAWs & libs to have two-way communication)


----------



## MusicStudent

Vastman said:


> I suggest you get Unify from PluginGuru... You can layer sounds/articulations and assign kbd ranges for different instruments & each instance is assigned to a different thread. It's mind blowing and totally resolves All the issues I have with Spitfire half baked player


Thanks for reminding me about Unify. I just need to go pick up the new unified SAS.

By the way, you will find it here.





More Unified Spitfire Libraries


****Abbey Road ONE and Film Scoring Selections Just Added***** Hello Guru Nation,I am very excited to be learning more about Unify and building "Uni...



forums.pluginguru.com


----------



## Roger Newton

Michaelt said:


> I have been feeling quite rusty with composing recently, so this was kind of exhausting... but I love the library.



Very good sound you've got going in this one. 45 seconds in and it really come to life. Very nice.

Did you use much in the way of EQ ect when mixing this track may I ask?


----------



## RonV

Michaelt said:


> I have been feeling quite rusty with composing recently, so this was kind of exhausting... but I love the library.



Beautiful piece! Lots of quiet energy and flow!


----------



## RMH

Adam Takacs said:


>



It's a beautiful song! That's a great way to use it!


----------



## JoeWatkin

Huge win from spitfire on this one, really agile and lush sounding legatos. Would recommend


----------



## Simon Lee

After watching the New video with Paul and Christian, It convinced me to finally pull the trigger. The thing that was putting me of was the synth kind of sound I was hearing in some of the demos in this chat. 
after having a play this morning I’m reassured this is a great sounding library.


----------



## Casiquire

BenJbln030 said:


> Yes, they have an announcement on YouTube so you can activate an reminder but there is no further information about it just that a new library will be released and Homay Schmitz & Gaika will be part of the upcoming video on the 10th.


Another new Spitfire library?! So in three weeks we got Mysterious Reeds, Philip Glass Piano, Appassionata, and a new unnamed library. Expand that to one month and you can include Frozen Strings too. Five libraries in one month? 😯


----------



## N.Caffrey

Casiquire said:


> Another new Spitfire library?! So in three weeks we got Mysterious Reeds, Philip Glass Piano, Appassionata, and a new unnamed library. Expand that to one month and you can include Frozen Strings too. Five libraries in one month? 😯


This can explain a few things, a super successful business model for sure


----------



## Casiquire

N.Caffrey said:


> This can explain a few things, a super successful business model for sure


Oh for sure, they found their formula. Worth note, I'm more impressed than annoyed by it. By all accounts the four libraries we've already seen this past month are well liked and good quality so as far as I'm concerned, power to them


----------



## Karma

Trevor Meier said:


> Please please please… the unified offsets for every articulation in MSS is such a useful feature! Would love to see this become an industry standard (at least until we find a way for DAWs & libs to have two-way communication)


It's very much noted, I promise


----------



## ism

As I suppose was all but inevitable ... I've broken down and convinced myself that I absolute need this library.

So here's of my new favourite things in the world: the Apassionata Vl II dynamics at the boundary of the two lowest dynamic layers and this extraordinary bloom that emerges there, which I think must arise from some combination of the intensifying expressiveness the performances on the different layers, and bloom of that embodied AIR sonority. 


View attachment q23 - Apassionatta - 2022-02-09, 1.25 PM.mp3


Absolutely glorious.


(Noodle repeats with Vl I, which has it's own incredible, but very different sources of nuance to draw on)


----------



## muziksculp

A good review of Appassionata Strings


----------



## CT

Roger Newton said:


> Very good sound you've got going in this one. 45 seconds in and it really come to life. Very nice.
> 
> Did you use much in the way of EQ ect when mixing this track may I ask?


Thank you. No, no EQ at all, though it could probably have used a bit towards the end, or at least a more careful performance in the low strings. 



RonV said:


> Beautiful piece! Lots of quiet energy and flow!


Thank you!


----------



## JBW

A little piece inspired by Paul Thompson's phrase:
(The Very Softest) Whisper Quiet "pp"...

View attachment JBW - (The Very Softest) Whisper Quiet ''pp''.mp3


All of the instruments here are using only the Combo patch from Appassionata Strings. T & O mics.

Thanks to @Noeticus for sharing the Spitfire Appassionata Strings: In Conversation video. I'm grateful to Paul, Christian, the string players, and everybody at Spitfire for bringing us this beautiful strings music maker!


----------



## MusicStudent

ism said:


> As I suppose was all but inevitable ... I've broken down and convinced myself that I absolute need this library.
> 
> So here's of my new favourite things in the world: the Apassionata Vl II dynamics at the boundary of the two lowest dynamic layers and this extraordinary bloom that emerges there, which I think must arise from some combination of the intensifying expressiveness the performances on the different layers, and bloom of that embodied AIR sonority.
> 
> 
> View attachment q23 - Apassionatta - 2022-02-09, 1.25 PM.mp3
> 
> 
> Absolutely glorious.
> 
> 
> (Noodle repeats with Vl I, which has it's own incredible, but very different sources of nuance to draw on)


Yes, sounds wonderful, but that last minute and a half of dead air we will never get back again.


----------



## Soundbed

I didn't read a single page of this thread (too busy).

Downloaded and played around for a few minutes, then hit record on a screen capture and uploaded.

My hope is: someone finds it "not a total waste of time".





0:00 Cellos 
2:30 Violas 
4:30 Basses 
6:05 Violins 1 
7:36 Violins 2 + Glancing Attack


----------



## CT

Vastman said:


> It's obvious the library speaks to you! BEAUTIFUL.& Thank you... Your piece cinched it for me!


Sorry, I missed this earlier. That's very kind and I'm glad it was helpful to you in determining if you'd get something out of the library. Hope it serves you well.


----------



## RMH

View attachment TEST STRINGS.mp3

After repeated conflicts yesterday morning, I decided to buy it, downloaded it, and composed a short song. Contrary to my expectations, I was surprised because the sound was so good.

It's a great stuff if you handle it well.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

what's the best way of getting a natural tail to appasionata without drowning in reverb?


----------



## RMH

NeonMediaKJT said:


> what's the best way of getting a natural tail to appasionata without drowning in reverb?


If you don't want to use reverb, it's best to use a mic combination of instruments.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

RMH said:


> If you don't want to use reverb, it's best to use a mic combination of instruments.


I've stayed away from the mic positions unless it's amix. I have been having some serious performance issues with this library. I tried increasing the release all the way up but it still has this awkward cutoff sound


----------



## jbuhler

NeonMediaKJT said:


> what's the best way of getting a natural tail to appasionata without drowning in reverb?


I find this to be the hardest thing to manage well with the instrument, and you will see me complaining about this way upthread. I end up using the modwheel to guide it down and then take CC11 down as much as needed. But, when you take CC11 down, that also affects the volume of the release tail, of course, so it can be a bit fiddly. And the level of the modwheel at note-off also affects which release tail is triggered. So it's complicated to manage, and I find I need to have some reverb to manage the tapering at the ends of phrases (not drowning in reverb, but I can't just rely on mic positions).


----------



## ism

NeonMediaKJT said:


> what's the best way of getting a natural tail to appasionata without drowning in reverb?


What I do is add a big Valhalla Room cathedral reverb - but with the early reflections turned off completely. This extends the tails without excessively muddying the crucial spatial information of the tree mic (which I take to be the sine quo non of any AIR Lyndhurst library)


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

ism said:


> What I do is add a big Valhalla Room cathedral reverb - but with the early reflections turned off completely. This extends the tails without excessively muddying the crucial spatial information of the tree mic (which I take to be the sine quo non of any AIR Lyndhurst library)


thanks! will try it out


----------



## alcorey

NeonMediaKJT said:


> what's the best way of getting a natural tail to appasionata without drowning in reverb?


One could possibly use automation on a reverb send - you could ride the volume in and out to your liking


----------



## dcoscina

I keep coming back to Appassionata and I really love it. Well worth the $162USD I paid for it. The tone is great. Do I wish there was at least 1 short art to mix longer phrases with? Yeah. But I understand this was never supposed to be a complete string library...


----------



## RSK

N.Caffrey said:


> This can explain a few things, a super successful business model for sure


Only 14% in tax?


----------



## IOnian Streams

dcoscina said:


> I keep coming back to Appassionata and I really love it. Well worth the $162USD I paid for it. The tone is great. Do I wish there was at least 1 short art to mix longer phrases with? Yeah. But I understand this was never supposed to be a complete string library...


Good to hear it's standing up to repeated use. Despite the lack of traditional short articulations (which can be found & mixed in from other Spitfire libraries), is it not true that the shorts that are included -- hairpins & glancing attacks -- are not to be found in other Spitfire libraries?


----------



## NYC Composer

I like Appassionata a lot so far. My main annoyance is the limited portamentos-I'd really like to choose my range and my intervals, but SA has apparently chosen for me.

FWIW, here's a quick short Appassionata demo. AP only until 36 seconds, then Appassionata 1st violins mixed with SCS shorts and tremolo. I think it's a good combo.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/03yj9ia8w52tbsy/A%20Passion%20Project%20rev%202.aif?dl=0


----------



## LinusW

NeonMediaKJT said:


> what's the best way of getting a natural tail to appasionata without drowning in reverb?


iZotope/Exponential Audio R4. Use Tail suppression and Tail recovery to bring the reverb down while playing but pushing the tail up when you release.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

LinusW said:


> iZotope/Exponential Audio R4. Use Tail suppression and Tail recovery to bring the reverb down while playing but pushing the tail up when you release.


is this possible with r2?


----------



## muziksculp

NeonMediaKJT said:


> what's the best way of getting a natural tail to appasionata without drowning in reverb?


Is this the only Strings library you are having this issue with ? or is this something you find hard to accomplish with other libraries ?


----------



## LinusW

NeonMediaKJT said:


> is this possible with r2?


No, that’s one of the feature differences between 2 and 4.


----------



## muk

NeonMediaKJT said:


> is this possible with r2?


Yes it is. It's possible with any reverb, with a technique called reverb ducking. Google it an you should find plenty of how tos. R4 just has it implemented as a feature.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

muk said:


> Yes it is. It's possible with any reverb, with a technique called reverb ducking. Google it an you should find plenty of how tos. R4 just has it implemented as a feature.


This is cool, I've never messed with these features in R4. What settings would you put the tail suppress and tail recovery on to achieve this? If you don't mind taking a minute to walk a noob through it? Thanks!


----------



## muk

Baronvonheadless said:


> This is cool, I've never messed with these features in R4. What settings would you put the tail suppress and tail recovery on to achieve this? If you don't mind taking a minute to walk a noob through it? Thanks!


Unfortunately I can't help you with specific settings - I don't own R4. Reverb ducking is flexible and you can dial in any amount you want. From my experience it starts sounding unatural quite quickly. If you don't want it to sound like an effect you shouldn't actually hear it. Just play around with the parameters in R4 and go with what your ears tell you. When in doubt, dial it back.


----------



## madfloyd

Question for those smarter and more experienced than I:

I am currently doing a course in string section orchestration and have been using CSS. Out of curiosity I tried using Appassionata but encountered an issue that may or may not be a bug:

If there are two identical/sequential notes, the second note is not played. Of course I can simply extend the first note to be longer, but CSS doesn't have a problem with this so I'm curious.

Thoughts?


----------



## AllanH

madfloyd said:


> Question for those smarter and more experienced than I:
> 
> I am currently doing a course in string section orchestration and have been using CSS. Out of curiosity I tried using Appassionata but encountered an issue that may or may not be a bug:
> 
> If there are two identical/sequential notes, the second note is not played. Of course I can simply extend the first note to be longer, but CSS doesn't have a problem with this so I'm curious.
> 
> Thoughts?


This a somewhat common problem and varies a bit from library to library. The "basic" issue that the library does not detect a new note as they are "too close" (whatever that means)

Depending a bit on library, I can think of at least the following approaches.
1) If the library offers a "rebow" feature, this is a place to use it. Appassionata does not have rebow from what I can tell. Other libraries offer dedicated up-bow and down-bow articulations and you can switch between them at the second note.
2) Overlay a marcato (or similar short) articulation at the start of the second note
3) Shorten the first note by e.g. 1/32 or 1/64 or as much as is necessary for the library to have time to detect the second note as new. How well this works and sounds depends on the library.


----------



## CT

Yeah you just need to leave a bit of a gap between repeated notes. It can take a little bit of tweaking to find the right amount to make it sound as natural as possible. 

Given that SCS has its own re-bow function, and the presence of hairpin samples in SAS that have a bow change baked in, I have a feeling we might see that function added which will be very welcome.


----------



## Lee Blaske

Another Appassionata Strings demo... I assembled this using the method Christian Henson outlined in a recent SAS video, playing in the entire section with a different tutti patch (I like using Aperture), and then separating the parts into monophonic lines and adding new expression and dynamics info. A little time consuming, but I like the results.


----------



## muziksculp

Lee Blaske said:


> Another Appassionata Strings demo... I assembled this using the method Christian Henson outlined in a recent SAS video, playing in the entire section with a different tutti patch (I like using Aperture), and then separating the parts into monophonic lines and adding new expression and dynamics info. A little time consuming, but I like the results.



Hi @Lee Blaske ,

It sounds wonderful. I like the Flute you are using in Unison in some measures with Vlns 1. Which library is the flute from ?

As far as the divisi lines, i.e. for Violins 1, and the Violas, did you just add another instance of the Appassionata Strings Violins, or violas, and use it as a divisi section ?

Did you add additional reverb, and EQ to warm up the mix a bit more ?

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## ImJim

Michaelt said:


> Yeah you just need to leave a bit of a gap between repeated notes. It can take a little bit of tweaking to find the right amount to make it sound as natural as possible.
> 
> Given that SCS has its own re-bow function, and the presence of hairpin samples in SAS that have a bow change baked in, I have a feeling we might see that function added which will be very welcome.


Wait, there's a rebow function in SCS?


----------



## CT

ImJim said:


> Wait, there's a rebow function in SCS?


Yes, look for the "bridge repeats" button on the legatos.


----------



## labyrinths

Michaelt said:


> Yes, look for the "bridge repeats" button on the legatos.


I've noticed if you hold the sustain pedal and repeat a note in Appassionata, it _almost _sounds like a rebow, but actually more like the same legato note getting played on top of it? (You can hear the volume levels increase.) If you hit it a bunch of times, it gets silly, but a single repeat almost works, though I'm pretty sure it's an accident that it does and will maybe get fixed down the road (or maybe replaced with a more obvious and deliberate rebowing, given that the sample clearly exists).


----------



## Lee Blaske

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Lee Blaske ,
> 
> It sounds wonderful. I like the Flute you are using in Unison in some measures with Vlns 1. Which library is the flute from ?
> 
> As far as the divisi lines, i.e. for Violins 1, and the Violas, did you just add another instance of the Appassionata Strings Violins, or violas, and use it as a divisi section ?
> 
> Did you add additional reverb, and EQ to warm up the mix a bit more ?
> 
> Thanks for sharing.


Thanks! Flute is from VSL Synchron Woodwinds. 

Regarding the divisi, I just added an additional instance of SAS.

There's a touch of TC Tools VSS3 "Big Warm Hall" on the tracks. Since I was going for an especially warm sound on this, I had an instance of Oeksound Soothe 2 on the output channel (I like the "Orchestral Nose Job" preset as a starting point, then an instance of Waves Kramer Tape, followed by iZotope Imager, and then Ozone 9.


----------



## muziksculp

Lee Blaske said:


> Thanks! Flute is from VSL Synchron Woodwinds.
> 
> Regarding the divisi, I just added an additional instance of SAS.
> 
> There's a touch of TC Tools VSS3 "Big Warm Hall" on the tracks. Since I was going for an especially warm sound on this, I had an instance of Oeksound Soothe 2 on the output channel (I like the "Orchestral Nose Job" preset as a starting point, then an instance of Waves Kramer Tape, followed by iZotope Imager, and then Ozone 9.


Hi @Lee Blaske ,

Thank You for the helpful feedback. 

I love Synchron Woodwinds, and the TC VSS3 'Big Warm Hall' sounds very nice, and warm.

All the other dsp treatments you used are contributing nicely to achieve the warm sound you were able to produce in this track. Also the divisi writing is giving the harmony a lusher and fuller sound. 

Very nicely done. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## NoamL

CSS + Appassionata

Enjoy and let me know your criticisms! There's some sharp ears around here...


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

NoamL said:


> CSS + Appassionata
> 
> Enjoy and let me know your criticisms! There's some sharp ears around here...



One thing I’ve noticed with Appassionata is that sometimes there is too little movement in a sustained note. It’s like you hit the key, the note starts playing, but then it’s like “time stands still” - the note sounds very much “the same” while it’s sustained. An example is in this piece at the climax from 0:22 and a few seconds onwards. I think it could be the vibrato that is kind of simply ”held the same”. Does this make sense? Maybe what I would normally expect was the vibrato to increase along with the duration of the held note. But then again, I’m just a happy amateur  I’ve noticed this before with Appassionata though.

Apart from that it’s hard to hear CSS in there IMO. Either that or I’m just too tired to listen carefully. It sounds like you avoid calling attention to the baked-in vibrato in CSS by combining it with APP the way you do here, but that could also just be the way it’s written. Sometimes when I listen to a piece with CSS and I then happen to focus on the baked-in vibrato then that’s all I can focus on - the ”automatic” vibrato - for the rest of the piece, which is a shame. You avoid that in this piece, that’s what I mean.

Edit:
Ah, I completely forgot to say: The music sounds absolutely wonderful


----------



## Jackal_King

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> One thing I’ve noticed with Appassionata is that sometimes there is too little movement in a sustained note. It’s like you hit the key, the note starts playing, but then it’s like “time stands still” - the note sounds very much “the same” while it’s sustained. An example is in this piece at the climax from 0:22 and a few seconds onwards. I think it could be the vibrato that is kind of simply ”held the same”. Does this make sense? Maybe what I would normally expect was the vibrato to increase along with the duration of the held note. But then again, I’m just a happy amateur  I’ve noticed this before with Appassionata though.
> 
> Apart from that it’s hard to hear CSS in there IMO. Either that or I’m just too tired to listen carefully. It sounds like you avoid calling attention to the baked-in vibrato in CSS by combining it with APP the way you do here, but that could also just be the way it’s written. Sometimes when I listen to a piece with CSS and I then happen to focus on the baked-in vibrato then that’s all I can focus on - the ”automatic” vibrato - for the rest of the piece, which is a shame. You avoid that in this piece, that’s what I mean.


I did a little experimenting with Appassionata layered with CSS yesterday (mix mics for now) and I agree with you, the vibrato from CSS was hardly noticable. Not that the vibrato bothered me that much before but I I'll say this, the combination of the two sounds so full and fluid.


----------



## Vik

Lee Blaske said:


>



Thanks, that's definitely one of the best combinations of good writing, string libraries + plugins I've heard.


----------



## Vik

NoamL said:


> Enjoy and let me know your criticisms!


What you present is brilliant, as usual – but/and ironically, I have the feeling that it would sound 'less processed' (read: more like a great live recording) if you added the five plugins Lee used in his track.


----------



## NoamL

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> One thing I’ve noticed with Appassionata is that sometimes there is too little movement in a sustained note. It’s like you hit the key, the note starts playing, but then it’s like “time stands still” - the note sounds very much “the same” while it’s sustained. An example is in this piece at the climax from 0:22 and a few seconds onwards. I think it could be the vibrato that is kind of simply ”held the same”. Does this make sense? Maybe what I would normally expect was the vibrato to increase along with the duration of the held note. But then again, I’m just a happy amateur  I’ve noticed this before with Appassionata though.


You're right. Appassionata does sound a bit static at the higher dynamics, I'll try to add some more motion.



Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Apart from that it’s hard to hear CSS in there IMO. Either that or I’m just too tired to listen carefully. It sounds like you avoid calling attention to the baked-in vibrato in CSS by combining it with APP the way you do here, but that could also just be the way it’s written. Sometimes when I listen to a piece with CSS and I then happen to focus on the baked-in vibrato then that’s all I can focus on - the ”automatic” vibrato - for the rest of the piece, which is a shame. You avoid that in this piece, that’s what I mean.


It's about 50/50 here. I haven't really nailed down what mics to use though. Kind of torn between going for a Williams / Murphy Star Wars Prequels sound in Abbey Road, versus a more "SONY-esque" sound.

Normally I'm against stacking libraries but with CSS+Appassionata I think you get a lot of great features from the combo: less vibrato than CSS, a bigger sound (more like 60-piece strings) than either library alone, and the ability to split them back apart for "true" divisi.



Vik said:


> What you present is brilliant, as usual – but/and ironically, I have the feeling that it would sound 'less processed' (read: more like a great live recording) if you added the five plugins Lee used in his track.


I try to stay away from plugins! Don't really know what I'm doing haha...


----------



## coprhead6

For what it's worth, I appreciate having both Vista and Appassionata. Vista adds passion and movement to SCS/SSS and Appassionata does the lower dynamic stuff incredibly well. It can also play slow to moderate repeating lines better than OT's pattern legato IMHO.


----------



## Vik

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> One thing I’ve noticed with Appassionata is that sometimes there is too little movement in a sustained note. It’s like you hit the key, the note starts playing, but then it’s like “time stands still” - the note sounds very much “the same” while it’s sustained.


I've noticed this in a lot of libraries, and I wonder of it can be fixed by the user adding movement with some CC or if the strings simply need to be recorded with specific instructions about adding 'movement' (a sometimes vague term) and how to do it. Here's one way to do it.
It's great that an increasing number of library makers seem to focus more on the passionate, soaring and moving sound that's so special for string instruments, and that – until 'the perfect library' one day time will be released by some company – they do it in different ways.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

NoamL said:


> You're right. Appassionata does sound a bit static at the higher dynamics, I'll try to add some more motion.


I read in a post somewhere you can create perceived motion in a "stale" sustained note by making very small, fast fluctations around the CC1 value the note should play at. If the note should sound at CC1 = 70 for example, then the trick is to draw small curves up/down so CC1 ends up fluctating between two values, say, 69 and 71.

It might have been you that posted it - I didn't add a bookmark to the post unfortunately.


----------



## zwhita

NoamL said:


> Appassionata costs ~2 GB of RAM per mic signal - that's loading all 5 string sections, all articulations, with default sample-streaming settings.


Just checked system memory(because Reaper performance meter usage is total unreliable garbage code that should be an embarrassment to Cockos'developers). It's about 13.5 GB for one instance each without the basses, and 3 mics enabled for each. That leaves 15GB of physical memory left on my machine. Unacceptable.

I'm done with Spitfire until they add a purge feature to their player.


----------



## NoamL

zwhita said:


> Just checked system memory(because Reaper performance meter usage is total unreliable garbage code that should be an embarrassment to Cockos'developers). It's about 13.5 GB for one instance each without the basses, and 3 mics enabled for each. That leaves 15GB of physical memory left on my machine. Unacceptable.
> 
> I'm done with Spitfire until they add a purge feature to their player.


That's far too much. You should be at about 5 gigs not 13.5 gigs.... What's your reading with only 1 mic loaded for each section?


----------



## zwhita

About 7GB. Preload size is 16000. This is entirely too much, even for one mix.

Not giving Spitfire audio one more cent/pound/euro whatever until they fix this.


----------



## Jdiggity1

zwhita said:


> About 7GB. Preload size is 16000. This is entirely too much, even for one mix.
> 
> Not giving Spitfire audio one more cent/pound/euro whatever until they fix this.


Are you aware that the default preload size is 12288? 16000 is going to result in more RAM being used, and would only be recommended if you're using a particularly slow drive or you've noticed the player not being able to handle the default values.

I'm not entirely clear on how much memory spitfire plugins use for me, as windows RAM usage shows different readings to the plugin itself, but FWIW my Appassionata plugin shows 4.18GB used, and that's with two mic positions loaded and every section. That's Legato + Glancing attacks + Hairpins for each section (no Legato Slurred or Sustain articulations).


----------



## zwhita

Jdiggity1 said:


> my Appassionata plugin shows 4.18GB used


Check the system memory available. I don't think this is being reported correctly.

When I change preload to 12,288 and remove the two mentioned articulations, it frees up 2GB from the prior 13GB for 3 mics. Doesn't seem to change much for 1 Mic.

The problem there is preload of 12,288 causes the first time a note is played to randomly cause pops, clicks and dropouts. Seems to play glitch free after that. I didn't try a render because I'm under the impression that anytime you hear pops and clicks, you should increase your buffering.


----------



## Batrawi

a bit off-topic: to those who own AR2 as well (@Soundbed maybe?), do you think the legato transition/feel is consistent with that of AS? after listening to some AR2 walkthroughs I got the feeling that the transitions do sound really good and thought to myself that SF may have already applied their "impulse" tech into this library as well despite it came a bit earlier than AS... so possibly that may be the case? or am I just imagining coz I'm heavily leaning to buy AR2 as well?


----------



## CT

I don't know that the interval methodology is the same in both libraries, but AR2 does have very smooth and natural "new Spitfire" ones, yes.


----------



## Saxer

Here's a track where I doubled SAS with three Audiomodeling Solo Strings as 'first' chairs per section.
Some accents were doubled by SCS shorts. The Audiomodeling strings give more playability and vibrato control.






Remember all those beautiful days


Spitfire Appassionata + Audiomodeling (3 first chairs per voice) + SCS (doubling accents) and Pianoteq. The Melodica is a real one: (and of all the instruments it was the cheapest)




vi-control.net


----------



## storyteller

For those looking to supplement SAS with more articulations from other libraries (e.g. shorts, trills, etc), after a lot of experimentation, I arrived at Session Strings 2 Pro as the answer. They are dry and can be manipulated easier than most libraries. It takes a little work to get there. However, the shorts from Session Strings 2 Pro sound really great once you get them blended. Don't skip on the group track plugins which are critical in getting them to sound right.

For SAS, I start out using the Outriggers (midi value: 127), Tree (midi value: 75), and Close Ribbon (midi value: 81).

For Session Strings 2 Pro, it sounds like the stack of each instrument (1+2) has a better tonality and blends best with SAS even though it is technically a larger section size. I'm guessing this is because the library has very little vibrato compared to SAS. In my template, I have 3 variations per instrument for Session Strings 2 Pro (combined, Div 1, Div 2). I also simulate a Violins II section with the pitch shift trick.

On the Session Strings 2 Pro group track:

I start out with SATIN and use my favorite tape preset: RP A800 Vintage (30 or 15ips depending on your taste).
After that, add more saturation with PSP Saturator. I load the default patch, then switch to Hard Valve and push up the softness and the warmth to taste. Oversampling on.
Follow that up with an inline Cinematic Rooms Pro - London Ambience Preset set at 100%
Now you need some light EQ. I like to use PSP e27 here and remove a little honk at 1.2k and adjust a little around 300hz. Perhaps roll a little bit of the top end off as well. Again - depends on your taste with the blend.
Send the group track to reverb. I am using Cinematic Rooms Pro with a modified version of Amethyst Hall. The most important thing is to dial the reverb length down in the under-2s range. I've found somewhere between .95 and 1.7 is best (depending on other reverb settings) since you are running a track with ambience through it already.
Lastly, I like a little saturation after the reverb... so another PSP Saturator instance here. Oversampling on. Warm Tape.
Okay. That's all for me today. The important concept here is using ambience + tape + saturation plugins to get closer to the Spitfire recording process with a traditionally recorded library. Hope this helps someone. The settings above are subject to change in my workflow. It just happens to be what I arrived at today.


----------



## doctoremmet

storyteller said:


> For those looking to supplement SAS with more articulations from other libraries (e.g. shorts, trills, etc), after a lot of experimentation, I arrived at Session Strings 2 Pro as the answer. They are dry and can be manipulated easier than most libraries. It takes a little work to get there. However, the shorts from Session Strings 2 Pro sound really great once you get them blended. Don't skip on the group track plugins which are critical in getting them to sound right.
> 
> For SAS, I start out using the Outriggers (midi value: 127), Tree (midi value: 75), and Close Ribbon (midi value: 81).
> 
> For Session Strings 2 Pro, it sounds like the stack of each instrument (1+2) has a better tonality and blends best with SAS even though it is technically a larger section size. I'm guessing this is because the library has very little vibrato compared to SAS. In my template, I have 3 variations per instrument for Session Strings 2 Pro (combined, Div 1, Div 2). I also simulate a Violins II section with the pitch shift trick.
> 
> On the Session Strings 2 Pro group track:
> 
> I start out with SATIN and use my favorite tape preset: RP A800 Vintage (30 or 15ips depending on your taste).
> After that, add more saturation with PSP Saturator. I load the default patch, then switch to Hard Valve and push up the softness and the warmth to taste. Oversampling on.
> Follow that up with an inline Cinematic Rooms Pro - London Ambience Preset set at 100%
> Now you need some light EQ. I like to use PSP e27 here and remove a little honk at 1.2k and adjust a little around 300hz. Perhaps roll a little bit of the top end off as well. Again - depends on your taste with the blend.
> Send the group track to reverb. I am using Cinematic Rooms Pro with a modified version of Amethyst Hall. The most important thing is to dial the reverb length down in the under-2s range. I've found somewhere between .95 and 1.7 is best (depending on other reverb settings) since you are running a track with ambience through it already.
> Lastly, I like a little saturation after the reverb... so another PSP Saturator instance here. Oversampling on. Warm Tape.
> Okay. That's all for me today. The important concept here is using ambience + tape + saturation plugins to get closer to the Spitfire recording process with a traditionally recorded library. Hope this helps someone. The settings above are subject to change in my workflow. It just happens to be what I arrived at today.


Best post of the week. Thanks!


----------



## Vik

Low dynamics, enough vibrato?

I've tried to figure this out by listening to various demos and walkthroughs, but I'm still a bit confused: How does SAS behave in situations where low dynamics should be combined with an appassionata/espressivo (read: rather intense vibrato) color?

Since – if I have understood this right – SAS doesn't have a separate vibrato control, personally would, if I should design an appassionata kind of library, make sure that it was possible to get that beautiful, expressive sound (again: with vibrato) at all levels. Why? Because, in an 'appassionata situation' I'd want tp hear that soaring sound even if I fade a note down to the most gentle of the (in this case 5) dynamic levels. I'm truly curious about this, since I already have both SSS and SCS, but find SAS with it's 5 dynamic levels for longs and three for legatos be the Spitfire library that's closest to what I'm looking for.

When I've watched stuff on YouTube, including some of what Paul Thompson and Chris Henson has done (thanks a lot to both of you for this great presentation!), I've noticed that several of the demos including using moving both CC1 and CC11 (which maybe should be needed when having 5 dynamic layers?), and that's a little confusing – but one thing that bothers me a little in several YT clips is that the dynamic slider often is in the upper halv of the dynamic range, and the sound still sound 'medium appassionatic'. 

Some of the most beautiful appassionata playing I've heard – most musically and sound wise – is when an orchestra combines low dynamics with high or at least enough vibrato. One example of this can be found in recordings of Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony, in the first couple of minutes in the 1st movement. There's also incredible musicality in the 4th movement in this piece, also relying on low dynamics/plenty vibrato.

Is this doable with SAS? If not, this – of course – isn't a criticism against Spitfire: it's not meant to be a complete string library, it's quite inexepensive, and probably the closest to what I'm looking for in such a library anyway. Plus, I haven't bought it (yet), so I'm not really worried – just curious.

Here are a couple of recordings of the above mentioned 1st movement – which are among the most beautiful minutes I've heard from Tchaikovsky):


----------



## Flyo

Vik said:


> Low dynamics, enough vibrato?
> 
> I've tried to figure this out by listening to various demos and walkthroughs, but I'm still a bit confused: How does SAS behave in situations where low dynamics should be combined with an appassionata/espressivo (read: rather intense vibrato) color?
> 
> Since – if I have understood this right – SAS doesn't have a separate vibrato control, personally would, if I should design an appassionata kind of library, make sure that it was possible to get that beautiful, expressive sound (again: with vibrato) at all levels. Why? Because, in an 'appassionata situation' I'd want tp hear that soaring sound even if I fade a note down to the most gentle of the (in this case 5) dynamic levels. I'm truly curious about this, since I already have both SSS and SCS, but find SAS with it's 5 dynamic levels for longs and three for legatos be the Spitfire library that's closest to what I'm looking for.
> 
> When I've watched stuff on YouTube, including some of what Paul Thompson and Chris Henson has done (thanks a lot to both of you for this great presentation!), I've noticed that several of the demos including using moving both CC1 and CC11 (which maybe should be needed when having 5 dynamic layers?), and that's a little confusing – but one thing that bothers me a little in several YT clips is that the dynamic slider often is in the upper halv of the dynamic range, and the sound still sound 'medium appassionatic'.
> 
> Some of the most beautiful appassionata playing I've heard – most musically and sound wise – is when an orchestra combines low dynamics with high or at least enough vibrato. One example of this can be found in recordings of Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony, in the first couple of minutes in the 1st movement. There's also incredible musicality in the 4th movement in this piece, also relying on low dynamics/plenty vibrato.
> 
> Is this doable with SAS? If not, this – of course – isn't a criticism against Spitfire: it's not meant to be a complete string library, it's quite inexepensive, and probably the closest to what I'm looking for in such a library anyway. Plus, I haven't bought it (yet), so I'm not really worried – just curious.
> 
> Here are a couple of recordings of the above mentioned 1st movement – which, IMHO, are among the most beautiful minutes I've heard from Tchaikovsky):



^This^ 
If they would give us the option to have vibrato control or another patch for recorded vibrato on low dynamics, even in a more subtle way at least, it could become the most expressive string library for sure.


----------



## IOnian Streams

storyteller said:


> For those looking to supplement SAS with more articulations from other libraries (e.g. shorts, trills, etc), after a lot of experimentation, I arrived at Session Strings 2 Pro as the answer.
> [ ... ] The important concept here is using ambience + tape + saturation plugins to get closer to the Spitfire recording process with a traditionally recorded library.


When I read the first sentence, I was enthused. I have Session Strings 2 Pro. When I read the rest, I got discouraged. I have none of those plugins! Do you have any further guidance beyond "using ambience + tape + saturation plugins", especially if using mostly FabFilter plugins?


----------



## IOnian Streams

Also, any advice from you @storyteller (or anyone here) on how to layer something over the SAS legatos to emphasize the beginnings of the legatos on quicker melody "pick-up" notes or repeated notes? I'm struggling to make those type of notes sound out properly when they occur in a longer otherwise legato melody line; the rhythmic element that these notes should contribute gets lost. Basically, I'm looking for a marcato-type of articulation. I've had some success layering SAS's own short hairpins over the legatos, adjusting the CC1 of the hairpins so that they blend better. But it's finicky.


----------



## Saxer

IOnian Streams said:


> Also, any advice from you @storyteller (or anyone here) on how to layer something over the SAS legatos to emphasize the beginnings of the legatos on quicker melody "pick-up" notes or repeated notes? I'm struggling to make those type of notes sound out properly when they occur in a longer otherwise legato melody line; the rhythmic element that these notes should contribute gets lost. Basically, I'm looking for a marcato-type of articulation. I've had some success layering SAS's own short hairpins over the legatos, adjusting the CC1 of the hairpins so that they blend better. But it's finicky.


I added SCS staccatos where needed and also SAS own short 'glancing' attack.


----------



## IOnian Streams

Saxer said:


> I added SCS staccatos where needed and also SAS own short 'glancing' attack.


Thanks @Saxer. I tried the glancing attacks too. For those, the note velocity controls the amount of attack but also the volume. I found it difficult to get the attack I want without too much additional volume against the underlying legato. But I need to experiment more. I don't have SCS but maybe the staccatos from Intimate Strings would work. Any further ideas for this noob?


----------



## storyteller

IOnian Streams said:


> When I read the first sentence, I was enthused. I have Session Strings 2 Pro. When I read the rest, I got discouraged. I have none of those plugins! Do you have any further guidance beyond "using ambience + tape + saturation plugins", especially if using mostly FabFilter plugins?


The thing about Appassionata is that it was recorded to tape with vintage microphones and gear. It is part of what gives Spitfire libs recorded at Air such a smooth and creamy tone - and that is before you even consider the acoustics of the place. So saturation and tape emulation is going to be important to shaping the tone of Session Strings 2 Pro to match anything recorded at Air Lyndhurst.

From the SAS website…

Recorded in situ using priceless valve and ribbon mics
Neve Montserrat Pre-amps into a Neve 88R desk
Recorded digitally at 96k via 2" Studer tape
So that is what you are trying to emulate when blending Session Strings 2 Pro. I’m not sure how it was recorded, but it is fairly dry (e.g. the need to add ambience) and it doesn’t sound like it was recorded to tape… or if it was, the tape has a less-saturated characteristic. My guess is they used good gear, just less vintage-vibey than the gear used on SA…. Probably no tape.

Tape and saturation plugins all behave very differently. They are generally very expensive on the CPU to emulate properly, so every developer makes concessions. Fabfilter has Saturn which could be used in place of the saturation plugins I mentioned... but it will sound different. Of course Pro-R could be used to create an ambience reverb to put inline on the track. How close you get to the similar characteristics of SAS will depend on your skill with those plugins. I'd suggest downloading the demo of Satin from u-He to hear what that tape setting sounds like and see what you can do with Saturn. Perhaps download the demo of Cinematic Rooms as well. I'm not sure if the London Ambience preset requires the regular or pro version. Either way, there are many roads to the destination. I just used the tools that I felt did the job the best to my ear. You could probably use some other plugins like Kazrog True Iron, Waves J37, Lindell 80 etc. and get a similar result. My experience with Fabfilter is that it can take a broad stroke at what other plugins do, but specialty plugins exist for a reason. I did initially try Lindell 80 for the EQ… and it was close, but I thought e27 executed my needs a little better. 

BTW… I didnt originally read the SAS recording technique until I posted this. It was all by ear and - in general - knowing how Air libraries are recorded. But the plugins I chose did seem to line up with their specs pretty darn well  That’s part of the reason the variety of plugins exist. There really is a sonic signature to analog gear that some plugins do better than others.


----------



## IOnian Streams

storyteller said:


> The thing about Appassionata is that it was recorded to tape with vintage microphones and gear. It is part of what gives Spitfire libs recorded at Air such a smooth and creamy tone - and that is before you even consider the acoustics of the place. So saturation and tape emulation is going to be important to shaping the tone of Session Strings 2 Pro to match anything recorded at Air Lyndhurst.
> 
> From the SAS website…
> 
> Recorded in situ using priceless valve and ribbon mics
> Neve Montserrat Pre-amps into a Neve 88R desk
> Recorded digitally at 96k via 2" Studer tape
> So that is what you are trying to emulate when blending Session Strings 2 Pro. I’m not sure how it was recorded, but it is fairly dry (e.g. the need to add ambience) and it doesn’t sound like it was recorded to tape… or if it was, the tape has a less-saturated characteristic. My guess is they used good gear, just less vintage-vibey than the gear used on SA…. Probably no tape.
> 
> Tape and saturation plugins all behave very differently. They are generally very expensive on the CPU to emulate properly, so every developer makes concessions. Fabfilter has Saturn which could be used in place of the saturation plugins I mentioned... but it will sound different. Of course Pro-R could be used to create an ambience reverb to put inline on the track. How close you get to the similar characteristics of SAS will depend on your skill with those plugins. I'd suggest downloading the demo of Satin from u-He to hear what that tape setting sounds like and see what you can do with Saturn. Perhaps download the demo of Cinematic Rooms as well. I'm not sure if the London Ambience preset requires the regular or pro version. Either way, there are many roads to the destination. I just used the tools that I felt did the job the best to my ear. You could probably use some other plugins like Kazrog True Iron, Waves J37, Lindell 80 etc. and get a similar result. My experience with Fabfilter is that it can take a broad stroke at what other plugins do, but specialty plugins exist for a reason. I did initially try Lindell 80 for the EQ… and it was close, but I thought e27 executed my needs a little better.
> 
> BTW… I didnt originally read the SAS recording technique until I posted this. It was all by ear and - in general - knowing how Air libraries are recorded. But the plugins I chose did seem to line up with their specs pretty darn well  That’s part of the reason the variety of plugins exist. There really is a sonic signature to analog gear that some plugins do better than others.


Thank you very much for the detailed answer (the devil's in the details). I haven't experimented with saturation much at all so I'm low on that learning curve. And there's always that elusive time balance between this technical stuff and just making music.

I quickly looked at the Session Strings Pro 2 section sizes: eight violins, six violas, four celli, and four double basses. Quite similar to Appassionata's 8,6,6,6,4 (minus the Vln2's). Another reason Session Strings might be useful is its "rhythm animator" for ostinato patterns; maybe obviates the need for the likes of Spitfire Symphonic Motions(?). Just gotta get that good blend!


----------



## ned3000

I've made an attempt at the deceptively difficult Jurrasic Park theme with this library. Hopefully this is better than the version I did with MSS. I seem to remember one guy specifically saying he wasn't going to buy that based on that one.


View attachment SF_appasionata_jurrasic.mp3


----------



## CT

I think that's a good start. Re-bow updates (hopefully!) will help a good deal of course. I would revisit the mix or mic blend used. It does not sound very natural to me.


----------



## ned3000

Vik said:


> Low dynamics, enough vibrato?
> 
> I've tried to figure this out by listening to various demos and walkthroughs, but I'm still a bit confused: How does SAS behave in situations where low dynamics should be combined with an appassionata/espressivo (read: rather intense vibrato) color?


IMO it kind of fails there. Low dynamics are kind of static and lifeless.


----------



## jbuhler

ned3000 said:


> IMO it kind of fails there. Low dynamics are kind of static and lifeless.


Personally I like the vibrato scheme and especially the low vibe at low dynamics. I know it’s not for everyone. But I actually find myself using the low dynamic layers of SAS quite a lot just because I like the sound.


----------



## Jackal_King

Since Appassionata has been out for a bit now, what mic positions/combo are everyone finding to be the most useful? I've gone back to tinkering with that and the tightness setting while I was messing around with Nucleus the past few weeks.


----------



## holywilly

I use MIX 4, more close sounding and save some CPU and RAM usage by using only one mic.


----------



## MelodicAdagio

Vik said:


> Here are a couple of recordings of the above mentioned 1st movement – which are among the most beautiful minutes I've heard from Tchaikovsky):


Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony is, for my money, his best and most masterful, and it certainly has an appassionata sound that's worth striving to replicate.


----------



## Jackal_King

holywilly said:


> I use MIX 4, more close sounding and save some CPU and RAM usage by using only one mic.


I'm currently using Mix 2 but 4 sounded pretty good, too. I've seen past comments mentioning mainly tree and outriggers but wasn't sure if anyone was making use of the other mics like the ambience or mid mics.


----------



## Vik

MelodicAdagio said:


> Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony is, for my money, his best and most masterful, and it certainly has an appassionata sound that's worth striving to replicate.


Yes. This short minute (from the beginning of the 2nd movement) from his 5th symphony, is also incredible:



Here's another recording:


----------



## MelodicAdagio

Vik said:


> Yes. This short minute (from the beginning of the 2nd movement) from his 5th symphony, is also incredible:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another recording:



Great stuff, no doubt. One of my favorite symphony movements. He was certainly on a roll with his latter day symphonies, both melodically and scoring-wise.


----------



## JBW

JBW said:


> Holberg Air demo revisited...
> 
> View attachment Grieg --- Air from Holberg Suite.mp3
> 
> 
> I put some more time into my little contribution to this thread in an attempt to improve the dynamics and balance of this short demo. This was all Appassionata Strings aside from the 4 CB pizz. from SCS.
> 
> I really like this new library. Sounds very good on its own. And it really adds something interesting when layering it with long techniques from other libraries. And not just other legato patches... Such as Olafur's chamber evos.



So, pardon if this midi programming idea is something that you know about and put to use already... Sharing in case it's useful for somebody.

I had an idea to improve the sound of repeated notes with a legato patch... Since there is no rebow function that I can tell. The problem is not only the gap in the sound between the repeated notes, but also the "banana bow" effect (where the sound is quieter at the start and end of the note). It sounds ridiculous when strings sound like "banana bows" all the time. Unless that's what you're going for... Crescendo/diminuendo on a single note has its place, of course. It's just not the technique used constantly for legato bowing.

This is the way I got it to sound more like a real string section... I did a complete duplicate of the V1 track. Then I deleted notes from either track so that there is only 1 note playing at any time between them. Specifically looking to break up the repeated notes over the two tracks. This way the repeated notes can be full value without the overlap causing the following repeated note to not trigger. If that makes sense...

Listen to the repeated notes in the violin melody at the beginning & at 30 seconds in...

View attachment Grieg ---- Air from Holberg Suite.mp3


I did this quickly with the 1st violin part just to test out the idea. It sounds better! And it could probably sound even better with more effort to fuss about with the programming. Kicking myself for not thinking of this sooner!


----------



## RudyS

Good idea. Thanks.


----------



## Batrawi

For same note rebow/repeated notes, this is one of those super easy "golden" tricks that can do wonders. Don't know how many times I've shared this so far now but I will keep sharing it whenever relevant. Thanks @Saxer 👌



Saxer said:


> Just a little gap in the dynamic CC1 line in the middle of the note simulates rather good rebowing. You have to experiment a bit with the depth and length of the gap to get a natural result.


----------



## ridgero

Appassionata Strings is my favorite Strings library, so wonderful.


----------



## zwhita

Anyone else having random dropouts on transient/attack for the first few notes played, but only during Render? I'm using Reaper 4.78 in Windows 7, 32 GB memory(plenty still available), 6th Gen i5 3.3 ghz, Samsung 870 QVO 4TB SSD, Preload Size 16000, Stream Buffer 65536, memory mapping disabled. Seems to be worse with higher tempos, but I don't know why this would happen only during a Render.


----------



## IOnian Streams

zwhita said:


> Anyone else having random dropouts on transient/attack for the first few notes played, but only during Render? I'm using Reaper 4.78 in Windows 7, 32 GB memory(plenty still available), 6th Gen i5 3.3 ghz, Samsung 870 QVO 4TB SSD, Preload Size 16000, Stream Buffer 65536, memory mapping disabled. Seems to be worse with higher tempos, but I don't know why this would happen only during a Render.


Wish I could help. I have Reaper & SAS, but haven't yet rendered anything. Maybe update Reaper? I'm on version 6.41. I seem to recall recent updates to the render engine.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Vik said:


> Yes. This short minute (from the beginning of the 2nd movement) from his 5th symphony, is also incredible:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another recording:



My favorite movement of one of my favorite pieces. In fact that oboe solo marks quite possibly the best-played phrase I have ever played, … …I need to play some more oboe again :(


----------



## zwhita

zwhita said:


> Anyone else having random dropouts on transient/attack for the first few notes played, but only during Render?


Support has finally gotten back to me and cannot reproduce the issue. Between this and the Spitfire player apparently not reporting CPU and RAM usage correctly to Reaper(version 4.78), I'm thinking the player was never developed with that DAW version's compatibility in mind.

Don't know when I'll be upgrading Reaper, so until there is a fix or workaround, I don't really have a choice: no more new Spitfire products. They've gotten almost $2,000 from me and that's all they will likely ever get for a long time.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

zwhita said:


> Support has finally gotten back to me and cannot reproduce the issue. Between this and the Spitfire player apparently not reporting CPU and RAM usage correctly to Reaper(version 4.78), I'm thinking the player was never developed with that DAW version's compatibility in mind.
> 
> Don't know when I'll be upgrading Reaper, so until there is a fix or workaround, I don't really have a choice: no more new Spitfire products. They've gotten almost $2,000 from me and that's all they will likely ever get for a long time.


I was having issues with the disk meter in cubase spiking. Spitfire support told me that the M.2 SSD the samples were streaming from was too fast for cubase to keep up with which sounded a bit silly to me. Maybe try moving the library to another drive?


----------



## zwhita

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Maybe try moving the library to another drive?


I keep hearing when people do that, the authorization in the Spitfire app sometimes gets messed up. No I'm not going to fuss with it, I'm just a hobbyist and have better things to do than sort technical foibles that the developer doesn't even care about fixing. Better uses of my very limited musical and technical abilities.


----------



## jbuhler

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I was having issues with the disk meter in cubase spiking. Spitfire support told me that the M.2 SSD the samples were streaming from was too fast for cubase to keep up with which sounded a bit silly to me.


Did changing drives fix the problem?


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

jbuhler said:


> Did changing drives fix the problem?


I didn't have a slower drive to put it on haha


----------



## jbuhler

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I didn't have a slower drive to put it on haha


The response you got from support made no sense to me, so I was curious if it worked.


----------



## IOnian Streams

zwhita said:


> Support has finally gotten back to me and cannot reproduce the issue. Between this and the Spitfire player apparently not reporting CPU and RAM usage correctly to Reaper(version 4.78), I'm thinking the player was never developed with that DAW version's compatibility in mind.
> 
> Don't know when I'll be upgrading Reaper, so until there is a fix or workaround, I don't really have a choice: no more new Spitfire products. They've gotten almost $2,000 from me and that's all they will likely ever get for a long time.


I hear ya on the technical issues. Very frustrating.

I did a quick test of rendering my current Appassionata project in Reaper. It rendered fine, no dropped notes. Again, I'm using Reaper version 6.41 while you're on 4.78. And it was just a quick test, nothing exhaustive.

But maybe you just need to upgrade Reaper. If you look at the Reaper changelog, https://www.reaper.fm/download-old.php, you'll see 282 occurrences of the word "render" and 115 changes directly related to rendering. And this is just the changelog for version 6.XX.

Of course, there's no guarantee that the upgrade will fix your issue. But neither would I just assume it's a Spitfire problem. Again, these technical issues are often very difficult to run down, especially for us hobbyists.


----------



## IOnian Streams

Jdiggity1 said:


> Well, here's my "test run" with it. Tried to incorporate everything it offers.
> 
> View attachment Jaypassionata.mp3


Forum newbie question: How do you insert these in-line audio players (as shown in @Jdiggity1's original post)? Help doesn't help. Do I upload the file using "Attach files" button and then do [ATTACH]filename-here[/ATTACH] in the editor? Should I use .MP3 or .WAV? Thanks in advance.

BTW, beautiful music @Jdiggity1.


----------



## jbuhler

IOnian Streams said:


> Forum newbie question: How do you insert these in-line audio players (as shown in @Jdiggity1's original post)? Help doesn't help. Do I upload the file using "Attach files" button and then do [ATTACH]filename-here[/ATTACH] in the editor? Should I use .MP3 or .WAV? Thanks in advance.
> 
> BTW, beautiful music @Jdiggity1.


Upload an mp3 (wav doesn’t work) using attach or dragging it into the editor. Then you should have a button on the file that says “insert” or some such. That will insert the file with the player into the post.


----------



## IOnian Streams

My first attempt with SAS. I resurrected an AABA song form melody that I wrote on guitar many years ago, thought it would be suitable for SAS.

View attachment Demo for VIC.mp3


Notes...

> Mix 1 for everything. A touch (17%) of Fabfilter Pro-R Concert Hall Vienna (like Christian Henson uses) on the master.

> The pizzicato is from Originals Intimate Strings.

> Originals Intimate Strings Long Half Section patch is also used occasionally as a subtle background, partly for some extra "umph" but mostly to fill out the harmonies when 4 voices weren't enough. Maybe this is where one should use divisi but I'm not sure how to do that.

> I struggled to bring out some repeating notes and short pick-up notes. The repeating notes on the cello line in the bridge section were especially difficult. I tried using both the glancing attacks and the hairpins, finally settling on the short hairpins. The attacks on the hairpins are very sensitive to the CC1 level so you have to dial in the hairpin CC1 just right to blend with the adjacent legato track. Usually, the legatos and hairpins are separate but sometimes both are triggered together, overlayed. I didn't try the "CC1 dip" technique yet, but that would only work with re-bowed repeating notes. I had trouble too with some of the short pick-up notes at the beginnings of melody phrases.






> Slight changes in tempo really help!

For the final version I hope to add a track of guitar, a la Rodrigo. For now, just the strings. Any constructive criticism is very welcome.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

jbuhler said:


> The response you got from support made no sense to me, so I was curious if it worked.


Me either lol


----------



## Jackal_King

Getting ready to try mixing my piece with Appassionata. For anyone who's done EQ mixing for this, was it easy/difficult and is there anything I should look out for?


----------



## IOnian Streams

Jackal_King said:


> Getting ready to try mixing my piece with Appassionata. For anyone who's done EQ mixing for this, was it easy/difficult and is there anything I should look out for?


FWIW, I put my faith in Spitfire's mixes which is why I just went with their SAS Mix 1 on my recently posted piece. There's lots of mixing advice on prior pages in this thread. Do what you can, then post your piece here for more feedback from others.


----------



## CT

Jackal_King said:


> Getting ready to try mixing my piece with Appassionata. For anyone who's done EQ mixing for this, was it easy/difficult and is there anything I should look out for?


You may find that the celli and basses in the Tree are a bit bulky frequency-wise. That _could_ call for a bit of EQ, or it might be better mitigated by how you use other mics in combination with the Tree. That's really the only thing I'd say needs to be monitored.


----------



## Jackal_King

Michaelt said:


> You may find that the celli and basses in the Tree are a bit bulky frequency-wise. That _could_ call for a bit of EQ, or it might be better mitigated by how you use other mics in combination with the Tree. That's really the only thing I'd say needs to be monitored.


I happened to notice that with those strings when I was working on the EQ yesterday. Did the high pass filter around 125 hz and it still sounds a little bulky. Gain stage seems to be a real challenge with Spitfire's libraries. On all the strings I had to put around 10-18db of gain. Does that seem a bit excessive, even for their strings?


----------



## CT

Jackal_King said:


> I happened to notice that with those strings when I was working on the EQ yesterday. Did the high pass filter around 125 hz and it still sounds a little bulky. Gain stage seems to be a real challenge with Spitfire's libraries. On all the strings I had to put around 10-18db of gain. Does that seem a bit excessive, even for their strings?


High pass may not be as wise as a more careful notch in that situation! 

As for gain, Spitfire generally delivers their libraries appropriately low in level while other developers may push signals hotter out of the box for instant gratification. I can't give any specific numbers since I'm only using this library with others by Spitfire, so the necessary tweaks to balance are relatively minor, but it doesn't sound too crazy that you may need to give these that much juice, no. 

I do definitely recommend paying as much attention to getting that right as you can though. Balancing a template is a very big part of your different libraries working together as well as they can.


----------



## sumskilz

Jackal_King said:


> Gain stage seems to be a real challenge with Spitfire's libraries. On all the strings I had to put around 10-18db of gain. Does that seem a bit excessive, even for their strings?





Michaelt said:


> As for gain, Spitfire generally delivers their libraries appropriately low in level while other developers may push signals hotter out of the box for instant gratification.


Those here with minimal experience recording acoustic instruments may not be aware that 0dBu analog is equal to -18dBFS in digital. The two scales are not identical in the way they measure, but the loudest portions of an analog single recorded hot will be at -18dBFS in a DAW with perhaps a few peaks exceeding that by a few dB. Typically the way a recording is gain staged during a session is you have the musicians play as loud as they would ever play and set that to 0dBu which would be -18dBFS in a DAW, so that everything else they play will be lower than that. It appears that Spitfire simply leaves their samples at the level they were recorded rather than jacking them up digitally.


----------



## AudioLoco

The problem is that there are instruments that clip internally in Kontakt before even going to the DAW mixer.
It's usually a concious decision rather then a mistake, I believe. To impress with more level when comparing with other products.
So much better to have lots of headroom.


----------



## davidson

How the ram usage on this library? I noticed in the walkthrough its using >11gb!


----------



## Justin L. Franks

davidson said:


> How the ram usage on this library? I noticed in the walkthrough its using >11gb!


When multiple instances are open, that number is the total used across all tracks and instances. He had many instances with a lot of mics open at the time.

With all seven articulations loaded and one mic signal:

V1: 658 MB
V2: 642 MB
Va: 510 MB
Vc: 631 MB
Cb: 412 MB


----------



## jneebz

Super late to the party here. I got through half the thread…was wondering if anyone can comment on Afflatus vs. Apassionata? Mostly a room tone preference? Or is the SF legato a new breed of awesome?


----------



## AMBi

Appasionata is eligible for a 20% discount ($200) if anyone’s in a rush to get it.

There’s always a possibility it will be discounted back down to intro pricing some time this year like CDT was in it’s first year, so it might not be the best savings you’ll get but it’s an option.

Just make a new account if you’ve already bought from Spitfire.


----------



## mussnig

AMBi said:


> Appasionata is eligible for a 20% discount ($200) if anyone’s in a rush to get it.
> 
> There’s always a possibility it will be discounted back down to intro pricing some time this year like CDT was in it’s first year, so it might not be the best savings you’ll get but it’s an option.
> 
> Just make a new account if you’ve already bought from Spitfire.


Are you sure about making a new account? I would guess if you already have bought libraries from them that use their player it will get problematic since authorization for such libs is via the Spitfire app.

Not that I would try that though - I am waiting for a least 40 % off to buy it.


----------



## AMBi

mussnig said:


> Are you sure about making a new account? I would guess if you already have bought libraries from them that use their player it will get problematic since authorization for such libs is via the Spitfire app.
> 
> Not that I would try that though - I am waiting for a least 40 % off to buy it.


You can log in and out of the Spitfire App with different logins whenever, so after the initial authorization it should be fine(?)

I have auto-login disabled in my app and it's never asked me to reauthorize any Originals I own.
I don't own any Spitfire Player libraries outside of those but don't think it would be any different, though I could be wrong.


----------



## jamwerks

I didn't buy in but probably should have. I use SCS all the time, but strongly dislike the tone of SSS. I hope they make a full fledged library out of Appasionnata, including extensive muted arts, and I'll undoubtedly get it.


----------



## mussnig

AMBi said:


> You can log in and out of the Spitfire App with different logins whenever, so after the initial authorization it should be fine(?)
> 
> I have auto-login disabled in my app and it's never asked me to reauthorize any Originals I own.
> I don't own any Spitfire Player libraries outside of those but don't think it would be any different, though I could be wrong.


Are you sure it doesn't de-authorize them once you log in with another account?

Anyways, even for a one-time 90 % off discount I wouldn't want to create a new account (apart from the fact that it's probably against Spitfire's terms of use). I already have quite a Spitfire collection and some inner feeling (probably similar to OCD) wouldn't want to destroy the "streak". Besides, I already need to keep track of so many accounts with so many companies. The consequences of GAS ...


----------



## AMBi

mussnig said:


> Are you sure it doesn't de-authorize them once you log in with another account?


Hmm not sure. That would be an interesting outcome since it’s designed to be able to be logged out and doesn’t pop up to run in the background in the DAW like iLok and other elicensers do at startup. 
Might give it a try.


----------



## mussnig

AMBi said:


> Hmm not sure. That would be an interesting outcome since it’s designed to be able to be logged out and doesn’t pop up to run in the background in the DAW like iLok and other elicensers do at startup.
> Might give it a try.


Yes but at least in Windows the authorizations are probably written into the registry. So I could imagine that the Spitfire App updates the registry info based on the last login credentials.


----------



## Evans

Even if such a trick works today, it's entirely within their right and feasibility for the Auth method to be updated.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

AMBi said:


> Just make a new account if you’ve already bought from Spitfire.


Spitfire's EULA says that's a no-no.



Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Audio End User License Agreement



Section 2: _"...to not create additional registration accounts for the purpose of abusing the functionality of the Site or any Content"_

Section 13: _"...not to register more than one account for yourself or anyone else"_


----------



## jneebz

Sorry didn’t read the thread. Lazy and tired but could possibly need this for a project. Just wondering…

1. Does it sit nicely with SCS?
2. Can I get it cheaper than $249 if I own SCS?

TIA


----------



## doctoremmet

1. Yes. 2. No.


----------



## jneebz

doctoremmet said:


> 1. Yes. 2. No.


Thank you!


----------



## PrimeEagle

Evans said:


> Even if such a trick works today, it's entirely within their right and feasibility for the Auth method to be updated.


I'm not even sure how well that would work if you wanted to use it with other Spitfire instruments that are on your other account. You would have to have multiple instances of their player each logged into a different account. I don't know if it's even able to do that.

Besides, it's against their terms to have a second account.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

jneebz said:


> Sorry didn’t read the thread. Lazy and tired but could possibly need this for a project. Just wondering…
> 
> 1. Does it sit nicely with SCS?
> 2. Can I get it cheaper than $249 if I own SCS?
> 
> TIA


Paul made a video explaining how to mix these libraries together i thought might be useful to you.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

jneebz said:


> 1. Does it sit nicely with SCS?
> 2. Can I get it cheaper than $249 if I own SCS?


Yup, it's designed to sit well with either SCS or SSS. Section sizes are right between those two.

There was an crossgrade offer during the intro period, 35% off ($161) for owners of SSS, SCS, Symphonic String Evos, or Symphonic Motions. But right now, no, there's no way to get it cheaper.

But the spring sale is coming soon however (typically end of May). While it won't be eligible for the full sale discount of 40% off due to being a new library, it will go back to its intro price, which I think was 20 or 25% off.


----------



## zwhita

zwhita said:


> Anyone else having random dropouts on transient/attack for the first few notes played, but only during Render? I'm using Reaper 4.78 in Windows 7...





IOnian Streams said:


> Wish I could help. I have Reaper & SAS, but haven't yet rendered anything. Maybe update Reaper? I'm on version 6.41. I seem to recall recent updates to the render engine.


I upgraded to the latest version of Reaper today and the rendering problem seems to have cleared. Now if we could just get the Spitfire player to load samples into memory faster!


----------



## IOnian Streams

zwhita said:


> I upgraded to the latest version of Reaper today and the rendering problem seems to have cleared.





zwhita said:


> Now if we could just get the Spitfire player to load samples into memory faster!


----------



## Flyo

Late here, but I have Appassionata during spring sale! I was almost forced in need to get a better legato option for BBC Pro, I really dislike the fact that every time between lines the first note attack with staccato or spiccato. Besides the different section size between these two, I hope to get ahead with these 2 libraries for get the expression I want for legatos.
Anyone paired well with AS and BBC ?

Updated: Or what other Strings library match like a glove with Appassionata?


----------



## jbuhler

Flyo said:


> Late here, but I have Appassionata during spring sale! I was almost forced in need to get a better legato option for BBC Pro, I really dislike the fact that every time between lines the first note attack with staccato or spiccato. Besides the different section size between these two, I hope to get ahead with these 2 libraries for get the expression I want for legatos.
> Anyone paired well with AS and BBC ?
> 
> Updated: Or what other Strings library match like a glove with Appassionata?


I don’t have BBCSO but have you tried using a low velocity (9 or below) on the first note. In other SF performance legatos that’s how you get rid of the overlay on the first note of a legato. 

I’ve found Appassionata sits well with pretty much everything. My go to combination is pairing it with SCS.


----------



## holywilly

Flyo said:


> Late here, but I have Appassionata during spring sale! I was almost forced in need to get a better legato option for BBC Pro, I really dislike the fact that every time between lines the first note attack with staccato or spiccato. Besides the different section size between these two, I hope to get ahead with these 2 libraries for get the expression I want for legatos.
> Anyone paired well with AS and BBC ?
> 
> Updated: Or what other Strings library match like a glove with Appassionata?


The soft start of the first note is played at very low velocity in BBCSO. 

I like to layer Appassionata with OT Berlin special bows (sul tasto legato) for ultimate expressiveness.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

I got it during the sale as well, very cool library. As @jbuhler said, you can use a tiny velocity on all first notes with BBCSO strings, it will avoid this spiccato layer.
So far, I really like blending Appassionata with Nashville Scoring Strings.
It will blend well with BBCSO but you'd have to make sure to adapt the CC1 / CC11 data.


----------



## Flyo

holywilly said:


> The soft start of the first note is played at very low velocity in BBCSO.
> 
> I like to layer Appassionata with OT Berlin special bows (sul tasto legato) for ultimate expressiveness.


Exactly but, I don’t like this fact when play live at all. The legato on AS are much smooth


----------



## Evans

As an aside, every time I see this thread I think it's going to be about release samples.


----------



## holywilly

Flyo said:


> Exactly but, I don’t like this fact when play live at all. The legato on AS are much smooth


That’s true, spitfire’s performance legatos aren’t preferred in my workflow, it would be better if we are able to set the velocity value to trigger the spiccato layering. 

I do wish spitfire implement this legato technology into their future products, that will be killers.


----------



## jbuhler

holywilly said:


> That’s true, spitfire’s performance legatos aren’t preferred in my workflow, it would be better if we are able to set the velocity value to trigger the spiccato layering.


Or just be able to turn the overlay on and off. Some of the libraries give you access to the legatos outside of the performance legato patches, but not every library gives that option.

That said, because UACC KS doesn't reliably overlay articulations, the performance legato patch is a good way to get medium length notes with the shorts triggered at the beginning and to avoid the machine gun effect for detaché bowing.



holywilly said:


> I do wish spitfire implement this legato technology into their future products, that will be killers.


I think @Karma said that this is the plan. I expect to see it for the strings in the new AR modular library.


----------



## CT

Flyo said:


> Anyone paired well with AS and BBC ?


Yeah. Just make sure you balance them properly! As in, get Appassionata at a volume level that is appropriately matched to the BBCSO strings. Should be fine after that. These two together form the bulk of my template.


----------



## muziksculp

jbuhler said:


> I expect to see it for the strings in the new AR modular library.


Looking forward to the AR1 Modular Orch. Library with their newest legato tech.


----------



## muziksculp

What does AS add to the sound of BBCSO Strings when they are layered together ? does the combo sound richer, and more expressive ? ..... ?


----------



## Flyo

Side note. My intentions is use legato and hairpins AS only (with BBC first chairs as a detail) and others arts from BBC. Not for layering togheter at same phrase


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Flyo said:


> Side note. My intentions is use legato and hairpins AS only (with BBC first chairs as a detail) and others arts from BBC. Not for layering togheter at same phrase


Both libraries are sonically pretty different but I guess it only comes down to your programming and mixing skills then. There are a lot of parameters to make it succeed or fail miserably !


----------



## Flyo

Emmanuel Rousseau said:


> Both libraries are sonically pretty different but I guess it only comes down to your programming and mixing skills then. There are a lot of parameters to make it succeed or fail miserably !


Jajaja Danmm


----------



## CT

muziksculp said:


> What does AS add to the sound of BBCSO Strings when they are layered together ? does the combo sound richer, and more expressive ? ..... ?


I don't think it's any better or worse really, just... mushy. I like to use Appassionata to supplement the BBCSO legatos when I need something more than the latter's fairly utilitarian transitions. I'm not really much of a believer in "layering" anyway though, so, that's just me.


----------



## muziksculp

Michaelt said:


> I don't think it's any better or worse really, just... mushy.


Thanks. 

I love the BBCSO Strings just the way they are, that's why I asked about what AS adds to BBCSO Strings.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I love the BBCSO Strings just the way they are, that's why I asked about what AS adds to BBCSO Strings.


They have incredibly good tone to them. I haven't even heard examples of the legato that sounded bad either. In fact I've been consistently impressed with BBCSO strings in one examine after another after another. It's only two dynamic layers right?!


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> It's only two dynamic layers right?!


I'm not sure if it has 2 or 3 dynamics, but it's quite limited. Yet, they sound wonderful.


----------



## CT

Sections are only 2 on normal sustains, yes. If you add the leaders, which have 3 there, there's a little more wiggle room but it still feels a tad limited. That said, the way they've programmed the crossfades is probably the best you could hope for to really maximize what you get out of what was sampled; they're the best sounding 2-dynamic string sustains I can think of.

And yes, I think Appassionata adds something to BBCSO, there's no doubt. Actually, while layering the full sections together isn't something I'd do, I should experiment with using the BBCSO leaders with Appassionata as I used to with SCS to "unify" the two libraries a bit more.


----------



## Flyo

The tone and detailed sound of BBC for me was the point to get them also. Sounds wonderful, I only hope that strings sections receive a parallel update as Woods for example. Appassionata it’s there for more playing freely and live with a more romantic style I guess, also the hairpins arts are wonderful and it’s an articulation never before approached I think and a most need for my composition for most of the time. So this weekend I will testing as much as I could! 🙏🏽✨ thanks for all the observations here


----------



## Evans

Before we got onto BBCSO, I saw some light conversation in here about blending AIR/Appassionata and Teldex (bringing Teldex into AIR, not the reverse).

My favorite strings libraries right now are SCS Pro and Appassionata, by a very long mile (OACE is also great). But even though I prefer the tone/space of the AIR/SSO woodwinds and brass over Berlin and THB, I prefer many other attributes of the SINE winds.

Beyond trimming some Teldex high end, boosting low-mids, adding some light tail, and maybe a low key glue reverb with some compression, got any tips for bringing BWW, BB, and THB into AIR?

I'm getting closer this morning to being comfortable with Teldex sitting alongside SCS with a little more Close mic detail from Teldex, but I'm getting fatigued.


----------



## Casiquire

Evans said:


> Beyond trimming some Teldex high end, boosting low-mids, adding some light tail, and maybe a low key glue reverb with some compression, got any tips for bringing BWW, BB, and THB into AIR?


That should really be enough. You might be able to do half that and still have a natural sounding mix. Our ears are way more forgiving than we think!


----------



## Evans

Casiquire said:


> That should really be enough. You might be able to do half that and still have a natural sounding mix. Our ears are way more forgiving than we think!


It's tough being so close to it and hearing some transform with ease (THB horns, BB trumpets) and others not as well (THB trombones).

I'm too close to it. It's like spraying texture over drywall repair. I can still see line between old and new, darn it, so I'll retexture the entire dang wall.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Evans said:


> Before we got onto BBCSO, I saw some light conversation in here about blending AIR/Appassionata and Teldex (bringing Teldex into AIR, not the reverse).
> 
> My favorite strings libraries right now are SCS Pro and Appassionata, by a very long mile (OACE is also great). But even though I prefer the tone/space of the AIR/SSS woodwinds and brass over Berlin and THB, I prefer many other attributes of the SINE winds.
> 
> Beyond trimming some Teldex high end, boosting low-mids, adding some light tail, and maybe a low key glue reverb with some compression, got any tips for bringing BWW, BB, and THB into AIR?
> 
> I'm getting closer this morning to being comfortable with Teldex sitting alongside SCS with a little more Close mic detail from Teldex, but I'm getting fatigued.


I can’t make Spitfire‘s AIR strings sit nicely with the other stuff I have due to the amount of reverb that is baked into the samples. It means everything else has to be even wetter to make things sound natural. *)

In the end I gave up and started using CSS instead.

*) To achieve a natural-sounding depth of space, I mean, with strings up front, then WW and so on.


----------



## Zanshin

Isn’t there a way to extract the Air IR from one of the Albions? Shorten the tails and apply the IR?

It sounds like you are making headway already though.


----------



## CT

Casiquire said:


> That should really be enough. You might be able to do half that and still have a natural sounding mix. Our ears are way more forgiving than we think!


Yes exactly. I think proper balance and using equivalent mic signals will be much more important than some of those small details. Oh yes and some additional reverb on the drier short notes since those will expose the acoustics of the recording space much more than long stuff. 

EQ/compression/more reverb should be a last resort in my view, if the above doesn't seem to be enough after letting your ears rest and re-assessing.


----------



## Karma

jbuhler said:


> I think @Karma said that this is the plan. I expect to see it for the strings in the new AR modular library.


Apologies for the delayed response! Yes absolutely, there's plenty of the Appassionata methodology going into the Modular Orchestra. But we're also looking to improve things further as well. I wish I could say more!

As a bit of an aside, I got a few messages requesting this months ago and finally got around to doing a DAWCast of my demo, so for anyone that is curious you can find that here:


----------



## Ricgus3

Karma said:


> Apologies for the delayed response! Yes absolutely, there's plenty of the Appassionata methodology going into the Modular Orchestra. But we're also looking to improve things further as well. I wish I could say more!
> 
> As a bit of an aside, I got a few messages requesting this months ago and finally got around to doing a DAWCast of my demo, so for anyone that is curious you can find that here:



Wow ! So beautiful!


----------



## Stillneon

Karma said:


> Apologies for the delayed response! Yes absolutely, there's plenty of the Appassionata methodology going into the Modular Orchestra. But we're also looking to improve things further as well. I wish I could say more!
> 
> As a bit of an aside, I got a few messages requesting this months ago and finally got around to doing a DAWCast of my demo, so for anyone that is curious you can find that here:



Wonderful piece. Fascinated by the ever changing tempo dial at the bottom. I must try and use that technique more often.


----------



## Zamenhof

Karma said:


> Apologies for the delayed response! Yes absolutely, there's plenty of the Appassionata methodology going into the Modular Orchestra. But we're also looking to improve things further as well. I wish I could say more!
> 
> As a bit of an aside, I got a few messages requesting this months ago and finally got around to doing a DAWCast of my demo, so for anyone that is curious you can find that here:



Thank you for this! Probably my favourite demo ever. It was a major reason why I bought the library since I really didn't need more string libraries (who does?). What I thought was a niche library has now become my main string library or at least a main wingman for SF Chamber Strings. I can't wait to see what's next.

Kind regards
Peter


----------



## Justin L. Franks

Zamenhof said:


> What I thought was a niche library has now become my main string library or at least a main wingman for SF Chamber Strings. I can't wait to see what's next.


Same here! It is such an amazing complement to SCS.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Karma said:


> Apologies for the delayed response! Yes absolutely, there's plenty of the Appassionata methodology going into the Modular Orchestra. But we're also looking to improve things further as well. I wish I could say more!
> 
> As a bit of an aside, I got a few messages requesting this months ago and finally got around to doing a DAWCast of my demo, so for anyone that is curious you can find that here:



The copy protection / activation system in the Spitfire player is becoming a deal breaker for several people in terms of choosing not to buy anything running in that player. So this definitely needs rethinking / changing.

Is that something that is planned? @Karma


----------



## Karma

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> The copy protection / activation system in the Spitfire player is becoming a deal breaker for several people in terms of choosing not to buy anything running in that player. So this definitely needs rethinking / changing.
> 
> Is that something that is planned? @Karma


I'm afraid this is something I'm unaware of, and is certainly a question for the Customer Experience team!



Zamenhof said:


> Thank you for this! Probably my favourite demo ever. It was a major reason why I bought the library since I really didn't need more string libraries (who does?). What I thought was a niche library has now become my main string library or at least a main wingman for SF Chamber Strings. I can't wait to see what's next.


Thanks so much for the kind words! I'm thrilled to hear it.


----------



## muziksculp

Karma said:


> Yes absolutely, there's plenty of the Appassionata methodology going into the Modular Orchestra. But we're also looking to improve things further as well. I wish I could say more!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Mike Stone said:


> Thanks for being here and participating in discussion threads. Not to put words into Henrik's mouth, but I think he's referring to if there are any future performance (CPU, RAM) optimizations planned for the Spitfire player? Especially considering the upcoming next-gen modular orchestral libraries.
> 
> Anyways, great job with Appassionata. Very excited to see what's coming next!


That’s also a problem with the player, however I meant the trouble various people report about getting activation of libraries to work. I have the same experience and it is frustrating.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Karma said:


> I'm afraid this is something I'm unaware of, and is certainly a question for the Customer Experience team!
> 
> 
> Thanks so much for the kind words! I'm thrilled to hear it.


If it’s not too much trouble, could you forward the link to the thread about these problems to the Customer Experience team so they can perhaps comment on the problems? (and hopefully fix the player too)

I will find the link in a sec. and update this post with it.

Thanks @Karma

Edit:
Here’s the thread, it is mostly about optimization issues, but elsewhere on the forum people have reported problems with activating libraries using the Spitfire player.

Thread 'Mac Studio Ultra 126 GB owners with Spitfire BBC Symphony Orchestra PRO: does it solve issues when using multiple mics?'
https://vi-control.net/community/th...solve-issues-when-using-multiple-mics.122741/

Edit II:
Here’s the thread describing people’s problems with activation:

Thread 'Spitfire player needing to be reset..'
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/spitfire-player-needing-to-be-reset.119980/


----------



## Flyo

@Karma Hello, there will be a continuation of Appassionata with more articulations, with same size strings section?


----------



## Daren Audio

Karma said:


> Apologies for the delayed response! Yes absolutely, there's plenty of the Appassionata methodology going into the Modular Orchestra. But we're also looking to improve things further as well. I wish I could say more!
> 
> As a bit of an aside, I got a few messages requesting this months ago and finally got around to doing a DAWCast of my demo, so for anyone that is curious you can find that here:



Nice work!


----------



## Loerpert

Flyo said:


> @Karma Hello, there will be a continuation of Appassionata with more articulations, with same size strings section?


I wouldn't count on it since SCS already covers that part.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

Loerpert said:


> I wouldn't count on it since SCS already covers that part.


No, it doesn't. Appassionata has nearly twice the number of players as SCS (8/6/6/6/4 vs 4/3/3/3/3).


----------



## Loerpert

Justin L. Franks said:


> No, it doesn't. Appassionata has nearly twice the number of players as SCS (8/6/6/6/4 vs 4/3/3/3/3).


Oh I thought it was the same, my bad.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

Loerpert said:


> Oh I thought it was the same, my bad.


Appassionata is designed to complement both SCS and SSS, so they used section sizes around halfway between the two:

SSS: 16/14/12/10/8
Appassionata: 8/6/6/6/4
SCS: 4/3/3/3/3


----------



## Vik

Justin L. Franks said:


> SSS: 16/14/12/10/8
> Appassionata: 8/6/6/6/4
> SCS: 4/3/3/3/3



8/6/6/6/4, used by Appassionata and the SF Bernard Herrmann libraries is pretty much the most perfect string section size for me. 

Talking of section sizes, 5/(4)/4/3/3 (PS Vista), 8/6/5/5/4 (OT Berlin), 8/6/6/6/4 (Spitfire Studio Strings) and 10/7/7/6/5 (CSS) are also great.


----------



## doctoremmet

Vik said:


> 8/6/6/6/4, used by Appassionata and the SF Bernard Herrmann libraries is pretty much the most perfect string section size for me.



I concur. Century Strings is 6/4/6/4/4 (normale) / 6/4/5/4/3 (sordino). Those slightly smaller sections still have a lot of detail in them, that I quite like.


----------



## RogiervG

Vik said:


> 8/6/6/6/4, used by Appassionata and the SF Bernard Herrmann libraries is pretty much the most perfect string section size for me.
> 
> Talking of section sizes, 5/(4)/4/3/3 (PS Vista), 8/6/5/5/4 (OT Berlin), 8/6/6/6/4 (Spitfire Studio Strings) and 10/7/7/6/5 (CSS) are also great.


And SCS too.. 4/3/3/3/3 (yes it's a tad smaller, but i don't hear a problem using them (AS/SCS) combined in an arrangement)


----------



## Akarin

Regarding the section sizes of both AS and SCS, you can use a trick within the SCS UI to double SCS sizes, bringing it close to AS size. 

I've done a video to test various short strings recorded at Air:



Also, Paul Thomson has a video on his channel showing how he blends different string libraries sizes.


----------



## ridgero

Really nice, thanks! Love it :D


----------



## Flyo

Studio Strings are made as same size as Appassionata, besides different rooms, anyone tried with these 2?


----------



## muziksculp

Flyo said:


> Studio Strings are made as same size as Appassionata, besides different rooms, anyone tried with these 2?


Their Studio Strings do not have Staccato, or Staccatisimo articulations, I never bothered buying it because of this, that's a big missing part of a strings library as far as short articulations are concerned. I don't know what Spitfire Development was smoking at the time they developed it.


----------



## RudyS

Yes, it lacks a bit in the short articulations. Together with the different room it is probably not the best to complement appassionata with shorts.

Be that as it may, it really like the raspy sound of SStS. It is maybe more suited for contextual stuff. I also have appassionata, but never really tried to blend them together, because those libraries serve different purposes for me.


----------



## EricValette

Here's the first minute of a mockup (work in progress) of the famous Star Wars main title.

The strings are a combination of CSS (mix 1) and AS (Out 0 db + Mids -12 db).

I love this library for its superb tone and playability.



If video don't work...


----------



## STMICHAELS

jonathanwright said:


> I was half way through composing a track so decided to try out SAS instead of my usual libraries. The MIDI took a bit of massaging initially, but overall once I found the mic settings I liked the library become fairly intuitive to use.
> 
> This is more of a hybrid track, with the strings in context rather than a naked legato demo.



Loved this. Can you tell me a little bit more about this piece? Bass, Rhythm and what is the main Orchestral in conjunction to SAS you used. Also loved the synth sounds...


----------



## STMICHAELS

Karma said:


> Apologies for the delayed response! Yes absolutely, there's plenty of the Appassionata methodology going into the Modular Orchestra. But we're also looking to improve things further as well. I wish I could say more!
> 
> As a bit of an aside, I got a few messages requesting this months ago and finally got around to doing a DAWCast of my demo, so for anyone that is curious you can find that here:




Love it. As I am new to Libraries and a piano player, what is the main orchestral library you are using here in addition to Appassianota and have to ask which Piano is this?


----------



## alcorey

STMICHAELS said:


> Love it. As I am new to Libraries and a piano player, what is the main orchestral library you are using here in addition to Appassianota and have to ask which Piano is this?


You can see all the info if you open the video in youtube
In the video you can see the piano listed as AR Piano on track#66 if you enlarge the vid to full screen
Two Abbey Road pianos from Spitfire are the Mrs. Mills and the Jangle Box in their Original Series.
I imagine Luke will chime in to verify which one though


----------



## jonathanwright

STMICHAELS said:


> Loved this. Can you tell me a little bit more about this piece? Bass, Rhythm and what is the main Orchestral in conjunction to SAS you used. Also loved the synth sounds...


There's a bit of everything in there really.

Winds - Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds
Brass - Junkie XL & Hollywood Brass
Perc - Hans Zimmer & Damage 2
Synths - Primarily Dune 3.


----------



## Karma

alcorey said:


> You can see all the info if you open the video in youtube
> In the video you can see the piano listed as AR Piano on track#66 if you enlarge the vid to full screen
> Two Abbey Road pianos from Spitfire are the Mrs. Mills and the Jangle Box in their Original Series.
> I imagine Luke will chime in to verify which one though


Hey there! You're quite right, though it's not actually a Spitfire library that one! It's the Garritan CFX:








CFX Concert Grand virtual piano - Garritan


Own the revolutionary Yamaha CFX Concert Grand virtual piano, created by Garritan and Abbey Road Studios. Upgrade your virtual piano sound today.




www.garritan.com





A really lovely piano recorded in AR1.


----------



## Vik

ned3000 said:


> IMO it kind of fails there. Low dynamics are kind of static and lifeless.


Since SAS is on sale now: Is this something that's commoinly agreed upon among SAS owners?


----------



## ism

Vik said:


> Since SAS is on sale now: Is this something that's commoinly agreed upon among SAS owners?


No. I *love* the nuance of musicality of the low dynamics especially. It's possibly my favorite library for sheer musicality at low dynamics.

What it doesn't do is the CSS/Soaring Strings/Vista-style in your face progressive vibrato which the legato as the dominant gesture.


----------



## jazzman7

ism said:


> No. I *love* the nuance of musicality of the low dynamics especially. It's possibly my favorite library for sheer musicality at low dynamics.
> 
> What it doesn't do is the CSS/Soaring Strings/Vista-style in your face progressive vibrato which the legato as the dominant gesture.


+1 Excellent. SAS is my first line Legato for most things these days. It's a diff beast than Vista, but I actually like it's tone better TBH


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> No. I *love* the nuance of musicality of the low dynamics especially. It's possibly my favorite library for sheer musicality at low dynamics.
> 
> What it doesn't do is the CSS/Soaring Strings/Vista-style in your face progressive vibrato which the legato as the dominant gesture.


+1 on the low dynamics. It's not an all purpose solution (nothing is) but I think the low dynamics of Appassionata are gorgeous on their own terms and how they sit within the instrument.


----------



## CT

Vik said:


> Since SAS is on sale now: Is this something that's commoinly agreed upon among SAS owners?


Yeah not at all. The performances on the lower end of the dynamic spectrum are especially sensitive and there is a quality to how the vibrato in particular is allowed to naturally unfold that I seriously miss in most other fake strings I can think of.

How much the higher dynamics can open up into a Vista-like "soaring" thing I think depends on orchestration more than anything else.


----------



## Vik

Thanks, guys! Are there any demos or walkthroughs out there which shows cello or viola with high vibrato level in the lower dynamic range? That's needed in pieces like this and this.


----------



## Brasart

Vik said:


> Since SAS is on sale now: Is this something that's commoinly agreed upon among SAS owners?


Absolutely not


----------



## JokerOne

Vik said:


> Since SAS is on sale now: Is this something that's commonly agreed upon among SAS owners?


As per the ULA agreement, we are under contractual obligation to disagree no matter how agreeable it is.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

Vik said:


> Thanks, guys! Are there any demos or walkthroughs out there which shows cello or viola with high vibrato level in the lower dynamic range? That's needed in pieces like this and this.


There isn't direct control over the vibrato. There is less vibrato at lower dynamics, and more at the higher dynamics. It is a very natural effect that I think sounds amazing as you go from the lower dynamics to the higher dynamics, but if you are _specifically_ wanting intense vibrato at low dynamics, then SAS won't do it.


----------



## ism

Justin L. Franks said:


> There isn't direct control over the vibrato. There is less vibrato at lower dynamics, and more at the higher dynamics. It is a very natural effect that I think sounds amazing as you go from the lower dynamics to the higher dynamics, but if you are _specifically_ wanting intense vibrato at low dynamics, then SAS won't do it.


That's true - with the caveat that there being 5 dyamic layers, you do have some control in that you can craft your arcs with attentiveness to when exactly you cross the boundary between layers. 

And each layer really captures an expressive performance in itself.

So while you certainly don't have a cc controller devoted to vibrato (which would come with its own problems), the richness of the performance and the number of layers really do give you some significant - if subtle - control over the performance.


----------



## oboemaroni

How wet was this library recorded? My preference is for smaller rooms.


----------



## doctoremmet

oboemaroni said:


> How wet was this library recorded? My preference is for smaller rooms.


It was recorded in AIR Lyndhurst, so pretty much “wet” and “not small”


----------



## Jdiggity1

oboemaroni said:


> How wet was this library recorded? My preference is for smaller rooms.


It was recorded in AIR Lyndhurst, which is not a small room (it had to fit 30 players, after all). 
But there are 11 mic positions to tailor your desired 'wetness'.

I'd recommend Spitfire's Studio Strings or Tokyo Scoring Strings if you want the sound of a small(er) room.


----------



## Vik

Justin L. Franks said:


> There isn't direct control over the vibrato. There is less vibrato at lower dynamics, and more at the higher dynamics. It is a very natural effect that I think sounds amazing as you go from the lower dynamics to the higher dynamics, but if you are _specifically_ wanting intense vibrato at low dynamics, then SAS won't do it.


I know that SAS doesn't offer vibrato control, and that (combined with what I've heard in demos and walkthroughs) gives me the clear feeling that SAS isn't capable of doing appassionata across all the dynamic layers.



ism said:


> ...each layer really captures an expressive performance in itself.
> So while you certainly don't have a cc controller devoted to vibrato (which would come with its own problems),
> the richness of the performance and the number of layers really do give you some significant - if subtle - control over the performance.


It seems to be a common misunderstanding that 'deeply emotional' is something we only want when played loud. I don't doubt that each layer in SAS 'captures an expressive performance in itself' – what I'm asking about is if it also offers appassionata when not playing loud. I can't think of anything in orchestral music sounding more beautiful and expressive than the sound of string players who are playing relatively quiet but does it as espressivo as it gets. 

Of course SF had to make some decisions when making this library, and unfortunately one of the decisions seems to have been that they tome down the expressiveness (appassionata/vibrato) in the quieter dynamic levels – just like pretty much every other string library does.


There are a few companies out there which have made libraries with a dedicated CC devoted to vibrato, btw. Why do you suggest that offering dedicated vibrato control necessarily comes with 'it's own problems'?


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Vik said:


> Why do you suggest that offering dedicated vibrato control necessarily comes with 'it's own problems'?


Crossfading issues maybe ? Vibrato option, when available, is either a crossfade between two samples, or a simple switch (no vibrato, soft vibrato, molto vibrato etc). I have to say I often prefer the second category, even if less flexible. It sounds cleaner in my ears.

Going back to Apassionnata, I've been a late adopter and indeed I wish they sampled the lower dynamics with more vibrato. I understand why they made this choice, though!

Like all string libraries, depending on the exact musical context it will work or won't, but I've been very pleasantly surprised by Appassionata, working in a majority of scenarios.


----------



## Vik

Emmanuel Rousseau said:


> Crossfading issues maybe ? Vibrato option, when available, is either a crossfade between two samples, or a simple switch (no vibrato, soft vibrato, molto vibrato etc). I have to say I often prefer the second category, even if less flexible. It sounds cleaner in my ears.


I don't know if SAS today uses x-fade or x-switch between the 5 layers, but whatever it does: It's already offering something which sounds quite smooth. If that's due to use of x-switch instead of x-fade, they could have used x-switch to switch between 5 layers even if the vibrato level was kept at an appassionata level in all layers (as an option). Both SSS, SCS. Berlin Strings and other use vibrato x-switch. 


Emmanuel Rousseau said:


> I wish they sampled the lower dynamics with more vibrato. I understand why they made this choice, though!


Here's how I see it: If SF hadn't already made a lot of string libraries (more than any other company out there?), or if this was meant as a general string library, I can also see why they would tone down the appassionata-ness in the lower dynamic layers. But if there's one kind of library that would make user expect / accept 'deeply emotional' expressivity across all layers, that would be in a library called – Appassionata.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Vik said:


> I don't know if SAS today uses x-fade or x-switch between the 5 layers, but whatever it does: It's already offering something which sounds quite smooth. If that's due to use of x-switch instead of x-fade, they could have used x-switch to switch between 5 layers even if the vibrato level was kept at an appassionata level in all layers (as an option). Both SSS, SCS. Berlin Strings and other use vibrato x-switch.
> 
> Here's how I see it: If SF hadn't already made a lot of string libraries (more than any other company out there?), or if this was meant as a general string library, I can also see why they would tone down the appassionata-ness in the lower dynamic layers. But if there's one kind of library that would make user expect / accept 'deeply emotional' expressivity across all layers, that would be in a library called – Appassionata.


Oh yes, I was just talking about how vibrato control is usually implemented in an orchestral library, nothing to do with the dynamic layers. The dynamic layers are obviously crossfading and there is even an option to influence "how" the crossfading behaves (with the Dynamic Smoothing option). I agree with you they could have recorded an appassionata vibrato in all dynamic layers.

About your last point, you're absolutely right! They already have plenty of string libraries out there, and with a product called "Appassionata" you're kind of expecting appassionata playing from pp to ff. But to be honest, I have the feeling this product was mostly released to offer an alternative to Performance Sample's Vista : An attractively priced, good allrounder legato library that sells well. Everything else is probably marketing poetry 


Note : Nothing wrong with that on my side, I was interested in the "good allrounder legato" more than in the appassionata playing.


----------



## Karma

Vik said:


> I don't know if SAS today uses x-fade or x-switch between the 5 layers, but whatever it does: It's already offering something which sounds quite smooth. If that's due to use of x-switch instead of x-fade, they could have used x-switch to switch between 5 layers even if the vibrato level was kept at an appassionata level in all layers (as an option). Both SSS, SCS. Berlin Strings and other use vibrato x-switch.


They are crossfades, but done in such a way that the user can get the 'true' dynamic sample isolated at certain points on the modwheel:

_ff_ - 127 (100%)
_f_ - 95 (75%)
_mf_ - 64 (50%)
_mp_ - 31 (25%)
_pp_ - 9 (7.5%)

This effectively means that if your modwheel is at exactly 50%, you're not hearing anything else but the _mf_ dynamic, rather than there being a lot of overlap between layers (which is actually quite common - as it can really help to smooth things). We intentionally decided against this in Appassionata, as to keep the purpose recorded vibrato as clean as possible across each individual dynamic.

As for vibrato sliders, this is tricky as the vibrato essentially needs to then match the legato intervals - which can double/triple the recording time (which is already very heavy recording this many dynamics). In my experience vibrato control on legatos never quite sounds as convincing as a true performance anyway. The vibrato 'bloom' after moving into an interval is so important, and you can't really fake that very well with crossfades.



Vik said:


> Here's how I see it: If SF hadn't already made a lot of string libraries (more than any other company out there?), or if this was meant as a general string library, I can also see why they would tone down the appassionata-ness in the lower dynamic layers. But if there's one kind of library that would make user expect / accept 'deeply emotional' expressivity across all layers, that would be in a library called – Appassionata.


We had done a few tests and were satisfied with the vibrato changes across each dynamic and the overall feel of it on the modwheel, and that was always the idea with this library. Personally upon some time away and reflecting, I think the _mf_ layer could benefit from being more molto, but I'm still more than satisfied with it! This release did give me quite a few more ideas going forward, which will certainly be in the AR Modular.


----------



## Ricgus3

Karma said:


> They are crossfades, but done in such a way that the user can get the 'true' dynamic sample isolated at certain points on the modwheel:
> 
> _ff_ - 127 (100%)
> _f_ - 95 (75%)
> _mf_ - 64 (50%)
> _mp_ - 31 (25%)
> _pp_ - 9 (7.5%)
> 
> This effectively means that if your modwheel is at exactly 50%, you're not hearing anything else but the _mf_ dynamic, rather than there being a lot of overlap between layers (which is actually quite common - as it can really help to smooth things). We intentionally decided against this in Appassionata, as to keep the purpose recorded vibrato as clean as possible across each individual dynamic.
> 
> As for vibrato sliders, this is tricky as the vibrato essentially needs to then match the legato intervals - which can double/triple the recording time (which is already very heavy recording this many dynamics). In my experience vibrato control on legatos never quite sounds as convincing as a true performance anyway. The vibrato 'bloom' after moving into an interval is so important, and you can't really fake that very well with crossfades.
> 
> 
> We had done a few tests and were satisfied with the vibrato changes across each dynamic and the overall feel of it on the modwheel, and that was always the idea with this library. Personally upon some time away and reflecting, I think the _mf_ layer could benefit from being more molto, but I'm still more than satisfied with it! This release did give me quite a few more ideas going forward, which will certainly be in the AR Modular.


Picked it up now at the sale! Love it! Really great sounding and responsive when playing! And good tips and tricks that are a must know?


----------



## muk

Just had an idea. Vibrato is one of the things we have very little control, and little choice over with sample libraries. The problem is that crossfading vibrato often sounds unsatisfactory. But how about this. Currently we only have libraries with one style of vibrato, and sometimes no vibrato samples. Wouldn't it be great if a developer released a specialty vibrato expansion library with three or four types of vibrato? Say, little vibrato, normale, molto, progressive vibrato. With only legato/sustains that are nedded, it could be doable as an expansion library. And it would fill quite a gap in current sampling libraries, wouldn't it?


----------



## Russell Anderson

muk said:


> Just had an idea. Vibrato is one of the things we have very little control, and little choice over with sample libraries. The problem is that crossfading vibrato often sounds unsatisfactory. But how about this. Currently we only have libraries with one style of vibrato, and sometimes no vibrato samples. Wouldn't it be great if a developer released a specialty vibrato expansion library with three or four types of vibrato? Say, little vibrato, normale, molto, progressive vibrato. With only legato/sustains that are nedded, it could be doable as an expansion library. And it would fill quite a gap in current sampling libraries, wouldn't it?


_aahhhemcoughmodelingaacchhhhinfinite_

Wowee, please excuse me!

Appassionata is good-sounding, maybe I'll give it a spin next sale. Maybe!


----------



## ism

Vik said:


> It seems to be a common misunderstanding that 'deeply emotional' is something we only want when played loud. I don't doubt that each layer in SAS 'captures an expressive performance in itself' – what I'm asking about is if it also offers appassionata when not playing loud. I can't think of anything in orchestral music sounding more beautiful and expressive than the sound of string players who are playing relatively quiet but does it as espressivo as it gets.



Quite right. But what I keep repeating is that I find the soft dynamics especially expressive and emotional.







Vik said:


> Of course SF had to make some decisions when making this library, and unfortunately one of the decisions seems to have been that they tome down the expressiveness (appassionata/vibrato) in the quieter dynamic levels – just like pretty much every other string library does.




Perhaps the confusion is that I don't always equate "deeply emotional" with "molto vibrato" and "soaring-super-extra-high-romantic-CSS-style legato, as there's lots ways way to nuance and perform the deeply emotional.




Vik said:


> There are a few companies out there which have made libraries with a dedicated CC devoted to vibrato, btw. Why do you suggest that offering dedicated vibrato control necessarily comes with 'it's own problems'?



I just mean the usual trade off if you attempt to crossfade vibrato layers. This can give you more control of the expressiveness of course (see all that stuff I've written on solo strings, for instance, where the issue is especially pronounced). But you can't really model all of the nuance and grace textures of really beautiful performed progressive vibrato with crossfades, or any other technique I know of.

SAS isn't trying to be Soaring Strings, especially a the lower dynamics. But I really do find to the nuance and textures captured in the lower dynamics to be especially beautiful, and very deeply emotional. Very few libraries can even begin to compare.

Perhaps there is a useful comparison with Soaring String here's. I find the the lower dynamic layers in Soaring Strings itself tend to be really very flat, presumably because this library exists explicitly for that soaring effect crescendoing to high dynamics, so the lower dynamics don't, imo, contain a great deal of expressiveness, as they tend to feel like they're only there to make the "soaring" effect of the high dynamics look good. Which of course works extremely well in doing exactly what it says on the tin.

But there're really no comparison to the emotional performances you can draw out of Apassionata with the lower dynamic.



muk said:


> Wouldn't it be great if a developer released a specialty vibrato expansion library with three or four types of vibrato? Say, little vibrato, normale, molto, progressive vibrato. With only legato/sustains that are nedded, it could be doable as an expansion libra



Berlin Strings has 3 types of vibrato like this. I don't think they crossfade, but it's very nice to be able to keyswitch between vibrato techniques.

It would be *great* to have this as an Appassionata expansion!

Although @Karma - please finish the Appassionata Flautando expansion before the Appassionata vibrato expansion. Many thanks


----------



## Vik

muk said:


> The problem is that crossfading vibrato often sounds unsatisfactory.


One reason for that is that there often have been only two vibrato levels (+ no vibrato), and that the most intense in many cases has been too intense for a lot of work. With 5 or 7 dynamic layers, that would be less of a problem.
4-5 types or levels of vibrato would be helpful, and there are some libraries which offers more vibrato options than eg. SF and OT. 

I think one of the main problems today is that many libraries seem to ignore that with the amount of RAM and processor power we have in newer computers, they could have gone much further in terms of how deep sampled they make a library.

Having said that, SAS was presented when they launched it as a library that wasn't suitable for all kinds of work, but as a special library that were focusing on offering that beautiful appassionata sound in all dynamic levels – listen to the first 20-30 seconds here:




It's actually quite close to being that special, vibrato oriented library that you may suggest – on paper.


----------



## Vik

ism said:


> I find the soft dynamics especially expressive and emotional.


But can it do this?


----------



## ism

Vik said:


> But can it do this?




It can do maybe 0.01% of that - which is still pretty frikking amazing if you ask me.

EDIT - oh, i didn’t see that there was audio to go with that picture of Tchaikovsky. So more seriously, it would be an interesting mock up to attempt. Appassionata would definitely bring something. Though at times this might call for something more high-romantic.


----------



## Vik

ism said:


> It can do maybe 0.01% of that - which is still pretty frikking amazing if you ask me.


Oh.


----------



## muk

Vik said:


> It's actually quite close to being that special, vibrato oriented library that you may suggest – on paper


Not really, though. What I suggest is a library that lets you choose the amount of vibrato that you want through a selection of patches: legato with little vibrato, legato normale vibrato etc. 

Agree @ism, the selection of vibrato styles in Berlin is great to have. Something like this, but with just a bit deeper selection and variation of vibrato would be fantastic.


----------



## Rob

Vik said:


> But can it do this?



I can't help hearing John Denver "you fill up my senses" in the solo horn


----------



## jbuhler

Vik said:


> I know that SAS doesn't offer vibrato control, and that (combined with what I've heard in demos and walkthroughs) gives me the clear feeling that SAS isn't capable of doing appassionata across all the dynamic layers.
> 
> 
> It seems to be a common misunderstanding that 'deeply emotional' is something we only want when played loud. I don't doubt that each layer in SAS 'captures an expressive performance in itself' – what I'm asking about is if it also offers appassionata when not playing loud. I can't think of anything in orchestral music sounding more beautiful and expressive than the sound of string players who are playing relatively quiet but does it as espressivo as it gets.
> 
> Of course SF had to make some decisions when making this library, and unfortunately one of the decisions seems to have been that they tome down the expressiveness (appassionata/vibrato) in the quieter dynamic levels – just like pretty much every other string library does.
> 
> 
> There are a few companies out there which have made libraries with a dedicated CC devoted to vibrato, btw. Why do you suggest that offering dedicated vibrato control necessarily comes with 'it's own problems'?


Yeah, I don’t think it’s an especially well named library as even full tilt, it strikes me as rather well behaved and restrained. I mean at the higher dynamic layers the vibrato is there but it doesn’t hit you over the head with it. Still, it’s a lovely sounding library and the first library I reach for my lyrical stuff. I happen to like the choices SF made for it, and the way it passes from dynamic/vibrato layer to dynamic/vibrato layer. But it won’t handle everything. 

I agree with @muk that the SAS approach with different scenarios for vibrato would be an excellent addition and am hopefully SF works something along those lines out for the strings of the new modular library.


----------



## Vik

muk said:


> What I suggest is a library that lets you choose the amount of vibrato that you want through a selection of patches: legato with little vibrato, legato normale vibrato etc.


Interesting... I'm trying to figure out why this would be better than simply switching between vibrato levels with a CC? Using a CC (within the same patch) would let use different levels of vibrato within the same piece (or bar) without using a different patch, different track or similar – but what would be the benefits of having to change to a different patch?






Are you thinking of something like this?


----------



## JohnG

*Maybe It’s the Name?*

Not sure about this focus on vibrato. I suppose it’s the name “Appassionata” that is sticking in some people, as they seem to be expecting Rachmaninov or at least a high degree of _espressivo_, or just passion, which in turn some seem to equate with _molto vibrato_. As it happens, Spitfire already have a “Rachmaninov” patch in one of their string libraries (I think Symphonic Strings?).

Appassionata does not necessarily equal _molto vibrato. _Plenty of baroque music can be played expressively, even passionately, with no vibrato at all.

So, leaving aside the name, which I hazard is just decorative and not really intended as an exhaustive description, this string library is ‘just right’ for many, many situations. I love the sound, I love its subtlety, and I LOVE that the transitions are not over-conspicuous.

Besides, half / most of the time I ask the strings for no vibrato or very little. 

*Vibrato and Libraries?*

And where there is vibrato there are complications:

1. I do like what CSS sounds like but it‘s usually “all or nothing” on the vibrato front, at least as far as it hits my modwheel. “In between” doesn’t feel as natural. Mind you, I do like CSS’ sound for some things, but not everything.

2. Hollywood Strings, when first released, was comparatively demanding on computer resources but it does offer quite a bit of control (relatively) over vibrato. Nowadays I don’t find my computers breaking a sweat to use HS, but at first it was quite the resource hog.


[note: I have received free products from Spitfire and East West]


----------



## jbuhler

Vik said:


> Interesting... I'm trying to figure out why this would be better than simply switching between vibrato levels with a CC? Using a CC (within the same patch) would let use different levels of vibrato within the same piece (or bar) without using a different patch, different track or similar – but what would be the benefits of having to change to a different patch?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you thinking of something like this?


I think SAS gets its very smooth transition between dynamic layers and vibrato in part because it is baked in. Crossfading vibrato comes with its own set of issues and would greatly complicate getting right what this library now does so well. So I'm willing to take the limitation. I imagine that SF could set up various other vibrato scenarios without too much trouble. But I'm not sure they can make vibrato an independent variable (as it would need to be to dial it in on a CC) and maintain the quality of the sound they are getting, which seems predicated on having a set design for how the patch is going to work with dynamics and vibrato. Yes, other libraries can do this kind of CC with vibrato on a crossfade, but there is a fuzziness to that crossfade that is not there with SAS.


----------



## muk

What James wrote. Crossfading between vibrato levels never sounds quite convincing to my ears. Either you get the fuzziness that James described. Or you can phase-align the samples foe a smooth crossfade. But that sucks all liveliness out of the recordings somehow.

Hence my idea to get several intensities to choose from. We were then not stuck with either the developers choice of vibrato intensity, or compromised crossfading. Rather we could choose the intensity for each new note. This would greatly increase the variability in our mockups - an orchestra does not play with one fixed vibrato intensity either. It varies for each phrase, or even each note. That's something that we can not do with samples currently. At the most we have no vibrato, normal vibrato, and molto vib. Would be great to have at least little vibrato amd progressive vib as well.

By the way I have no qualms with Appassionata's vibrato. As far as the common approach goes, it's well executed here I find. I'd just like to have more options for vibrato generally.


----------



## MelodicAdagio

Vik said:


> But can it do this?



Tchaikovsky's 5th and 6th Symphonies are amazing. I don't think Appassionata could fully duplicate the Romantic sound in the soft, expressive dynamics, but it would be interesting to see how close a mock up of some sections could come. I do like Appassionata and find it generally very expressive.


----------



## Vik

For the records, I'm _not_ suggesting cross-fade instead of cross-switch, or that the vibrato shouldn't be 'baked in'

And sure – there are other ways to create passion than using vibrato. Adding 'movement'/con moto, for instance. The reason I bring in vibrato is that I've noticed that there are almost no libraries out there which combined the pp℗ range with enough vibrato; the amount of vibrato needed in order to be able to mock up the various examples I've mentioned (Wagner, Tchaikovsky and others). 



muk said:


> Hence my idea to get several intensities to choose from. We were then not stuck with either the developers choice of vibrato intensity, or compromised crossfading. Rather we could choose the intensity for each new note. This would greatly increase the variability in our mockups


With eg. four different levels of vibrato (+non-vib), including for the pp(p)-range, CC1-25 could represent no vib, 25-50 could represent little vibrato and so on. No x-fading involved. VSL, CSS and others offer vibrato x-fade, but I'm not discussing x-fade vs x-swicth – I just think that with so many libraries doing this the same way, it's a market out there for a library which acknowledges that there's sometimes a need for the combination of a generous amount of vibrato and really quiet playing – a tremendously beautiful sound.

I still haven't dropped the idea of buying SF Appassionata – I just need to know what to expect. And that's not because someone wrote earlier in this thread that "Low dynamics are kind of static and lifeless" – I got the same impression from the demos. I'd love to be proven wrong with some pointers to audio examples (or audio examples)!


----------



## STMICHAELS

MelodicAdagio said:


> Tchaikovsky's 5th and 6th Symphonies are amazing. I don't think Appassionata could fully duplicate the Romantic sound in the soft, expressive dynamics, but it would be interesting to see how close a mock up of some sections could come. I do like Appassionata and find it generally very expressive.


Wow that is a beautiful piece. Thank you for sharing and yes those strings sound beautiful.......and the Brass


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Vik said:


> But can it do this?



CSS sounds so much like the strings here!

My goodness Alex really nailed it with that lib.


----------



## ism

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> CSS sounds so much like the strings here!
> 
> My goodness Alex really nailed it with that lib.


This is the LSO.


----------



## CT

CSS and some others do retain a fair bit of vibrato at lower dynamics, but it often still doesn't sound right to me, even when you want that sound, because of the programming of those libraries. As Karma noted, it's not just the amount of vibrato, but how that vibrato is arrived at after the start of a note or the playing of an interval. Oftentimes these "lush" libraries sound quite strange to me, as if you've put a tremolo or chorus effect on soft strings, because that vibrato is quite unrelenting and doesn't feel naturally "placed" within the performance. It's a dated sound, like rompler strings. Unfortunately I don't think crossfades are a solution either, it has to be down to proper performances and clever programming.

I'm happy to err on the side of something like Appassionata, which may at times leave one wanting a tad more weepy expression, but which is utterly authentic in its execution and musicality and does what I want 85% of the time.


----------



## Vik

Karma said:


> They are crossfades, but done in such a way that the user can get the 'true' dynamic sample isolated at certain points on the modwheel:
> 
> _ff_ - 127 (100%)
> _f_ - 95 (75%)
> _mf_ - 64 (50%)
> _mp_ - 31 (25%)
> _pp_ - 9 (7.5%)



Thanks for that info!
So – you are offering the best of both worlds then, by having crossfades between the layers but a way to bypass the sound of crossfades by making sure that the un-crossfaded are available too (and can be achieved, x-switch-style, by typing in the values for the true dynamic samples.


Karma said:


> I think the _mf_ layer could benefit from being more molto, but I'm still more than satisfied with it


I agree that it could have been more molto.



Karma said:


> This release did give me quite a few more ideas going forward, which will certainly be in the AR Modular.


I read that as 'Vik, don't buy Appassionata now, because AR-M will offer something you will be more happy with." 

Regarding future libraries and the dilemma between a library that offers Tchaikovksian amounts of vibrato also at the quietest levels vs the more mainstream approach which SAS has (less vibrato in the quieter layers), why not offer both?

I like the section sizes in SAS, the mic options and the various mic-mixes... and more.
In several ways, such a library would be perfect if came with a version which is like the current one (but with more molto-vib at mf) – but also included a version based on the three most intense levels, but where the two quietest ones were replaced by layers that contained intense amount of vibrato. Not necessarily molto vib, but enough vib to mock up the kind of recordings I have referred to.



Michaelt said:


> CSS and some others do retain a fair bit of vibrato at lower dynamics, but it often still doesn't sound right to me, even when you want that sound, because of the programming of those libraries


That problem would have been sold if CSS included a way to type in the exact value for the each of the 'pure' layers, since this effectively gives us vibrato cross-switch in vibrato crossfade libraries.


----------



## muk

Vik said:


> In several ways, such a library would be perfect if came with a version which is like the current one (but with more molto-vib at mf) – but also included a version based on the three most intense levels, but where the two quietest ones were replaced by layers that contained intense amount of vibrato. Not necessarily molto vib, but enough vib to mock up the kind of recordings I have referred to.


That's just one, very specific usecase though. While this might be perfect for you, why not sample various vibrato levels at all dynamics? That way you can use molto vibrato at the quietest dynamics, or little vibrato at fortissimo. And everything in between. Whatever your music needs at any given moment. It covers your wish too, but is much more flexible overall. I think that would be a great concept for a library.


----------



## Carson

I purchased it bc it’s on sale and the cover art is pretty. 

And it sounds beautiful


----------



## Vik

muk said:


> why not sample various vibrato levels at all dynamics? That way you can use molto vibrato at the quietest dynamics, or little vibrato at fortissimo. And everything in between.


That would, of course, be a better solution.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Vik said:


> I still haven't dropped the idea of buying SF Appassionata – I just need to know what to expect. And that's not because someone wrote earlier in this thread that "Low dynamics are kind of static and lifeless" – I got the same impression from the demos. I'd love to be proven wrong with some pointers to audio examples (or audio examples)!


This example starts off at the lowest dynamic for the first phrase and builds from there. Should give you an idea of vibrato levels.






Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


So it’s legato only (and some Hairpin)… nothing that SCS doesn’t cover. So why bother? I don’t get it tbh^^ This one has a warmer, more romantic sound




vi-control.net


----------



## ism

Vik said:


> But can it do this?



Here's a quick noodling in of the first few bars (followed by isolated Vc, then isolated Va + Vl II)

View attachment noodle - q26 - Tchaikovski V ii - 2022-08-03, 11.05 PM.mp3


----------



## Vik

ism said:


> Here's a quick noodling in of the first few bars (followed by isolated Vc, then isolated Va + Vl II)


Thanks a lot for taking time to do this, ism.


----------



## idematoa

- Spitfire Audio - Spitfire Appassionata Strings - Violins 1 & 2 - Legato
- Spitfire Audio - Spitfire Appassionata Strings - Violas - Legato
- Spitfire Audio - Spitfire Appassionata Strings - Cellos - Legato
- Spitfire Audio - Spitfire Appassionata Strings - Basses - Glancing Attack
- Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra - Flûtes A3 - Legato
- Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra - Flûtes - Legato
- Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra - Oboes A3 - Legato
- Spitfire Audio - Originals - Cinematic Frozen Strings

120 bpm, 4/4


----------



## JokerOne

idematoa said:


> - Spitfire Audio - Spitfire Appassionata Strings - Violins 1 & 2 - Legato
> - Spitfire Audio - Spitfire Appassionata Strings - Violas - Legato
> - Spitfire Audio - Spitfire Appassionata Strings - Cellos - Legato
> - Spitfire Audio - Spitfire Appassionata Strings - Basses - Glancing Attack
> - Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra - Flûtes A3 - Legato
> - Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra - Flûtes - Legato
> - Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra - Oboes A3 - Legato
> - Spitfire Audio - Originals - Cinematic Frozen Strings
> 
> 120 bpm, 4/4



very cool. I like it.


----------



## Tekkera

Vik said:


> Since SAS is on sale now: Is this something that's commoinly agreed upon among SAS owners?


Confirmed, the low dyns are generally pretty yucky. Bottom 3 dyns sound like legato from 2010 sometimes, top 2 dyns kick ass


----------



## Trif

Anyone using this for pop/rock? (In my case with a sort of indie/vintage vibe.) I'm usually very happy with the VI Chamber Strings for that purpose, but not when I need slow legato lines.


----------



## Casiquire

muk said:


> That's just one, very specific usecase though. While this might be perfect for you, why not sample various vibrato levels at all dynamics? That way you can use molto vibrato at the quietest dynamics, or little vibrato at fortissimo. And everything in between. Whatever your music needs at any given moment. It covers your wish too, but is much more flexible overall. I think that would be a great concept for a library.


Some close alternatives are "Hollywood Strings" (I assume it carried into OPUS?) with different patches that reach higher vibrato levels at different dynamic levels giving you great flexibility over the character of your strings. Plus you can force specific strings by using finger positions which affects the color just as much as vibrato level.

VSL and OT products do tend to offer multiple styles in addition to extra flexibility that might not be immediately obvious, such as sul tastos that function as perfect ppp layers if you set things up that way, expressive patches that make a great extra vibrato top layer, and filters and processing that can mimic dynamics well enough for in a mix. These all come together to broaden your vibrato options especially in certain registers


----------



## ism

Vik said:


> Since SAS is on sale now: Is this something that's commoinly agreed upon among SAS owners?





Tekkera said:


> Confirmed, the low dyns are generally pretty yucky. Bottom 3 dyns sound like legato from 2010 sometimes, top 2 dyns kick ass



Well, just for the sake of clarity - confirmed that some people do feel this way about the lower dynamics, which is interesting (if surprising). 

But very far from anything like a consensus. Many other feels the lower dynamics are the best part.


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> Well, just for the sake of clarity - confirmed that some people do feel this way about the lower dynamics, which is interesting (if surprising).
> 
> But very far from anything like a consensus. Many other feels the lower dynamics are the best part.


+1 on preferring the lower dynamics.


----------



## storyteller

Trif said:


> Anyone using this for pop/rock? (In my case with a sort of indie/vintage vibe.) I'm usually very happy with the VI Chamber Strings for that purpose, but not when I need slow legato lines.


I’m finishing up a pop/rock track with it currently. I like it a lot for that purpose.



jbuhler said:


> +1 on preferring the lower dynamics.


Agreed with @jbuhler, @ism and the others that like it at lower levels as well.



Vik said:


> Since SAS is on sale now: Is this something that's commoinly agreed upon among SAS owners?


Something I've noticed among the various opinions posted (and I might have missed something here), but the users that have been on this forum the longest and likely owned and used most of the string libraries out there seem to really like Appassionata at all dynamics (including the lows). The people that tend to dislike the lower dynamics seem to be newer accounts (relatively speaking)... not saying that means anything specifically about the newer members - everyone is entitled to their opinions - but for the ones that have been around here for a while with a lot of experience on here, it seems like like the consensus is almost universally favorable for Appassionata at all dynamics. Anyway... just some food for thought. You've been on the forum for a while, so I am sure you recognize the users posting 

^^^ This last observation isn't necessarily absolute... just something I've been noticing since Appassionata first released


----------



## Tekkera

Do you think the low dyn transitions would sound warmer if I opted for close microphones and set up my own reverb with MIR Pro


----------



## Vik

storyteller said:


> Something I've noticed among the various opinions posted (and I might have missed something here), but the users that have been on this forum the longest and likely owned and used most of the string libraries out there seem to really like Appassionata at all dynamics (including the lows).


Well, let's not make a pseudo-poll out of this – or construct some 'demography' that may not exist. Besides, what if a new, young member here with who always looks like he just came from the hair dresser actually is 26-year old Klaus Mäkelä – artistic director of the Turku Music Festival in Finland, Music Director of Orchestre de Paris and Chief Conductor of the Oslo Philharmonic Orchestra? 

Having said that, I often tend to agree with the senior members here: Like Emmanuel R, I simply wish they had sampled the lower dynamics with more vibrato, and he also confirms the view that with a product called Appassionata, you're kind of expecting appassionata playing from pp to ff. Like jbuhler, I don’t think it’s an especially well named library 'as even full tilt, it strikes me as rather well behaved and restrained'. Both jbuhler, ism, muk and myself (and probably Emmanuel R) thinks that Appasionata would be really well off with an 'expansion' based on Muk's concept (which go way further than my original suggestion).




Michaelt said:


> How much the higher dynamics can open up into a Vista-like "soaring" thing I think depends on orchestration more than anything else.


Hi, 'lurking member'!  If there are no proper samples of intense vibrato at mf, and not at the other 4 dynamic layers, it's unfortunately not dependent on the orchestration (when using this library): if you want to achieve the sound of 'enough vibrato', you need to have recordings with enough vibrato. But like you, I wish Appassionata had a tad more 'weepy expression', and regarding your mentioned 85% of the time: not even Tchaikovsky asked for the combo of low dynamics and appassionata vibrato more than 15% of the time. 15% may not sound like a large 'portion', but it's an.... important one (for some of us).



MelodicAdagio said:


> Tchaikovsky's 5th and 6th Symphonies are amazing. I don't think Appassionata could fully duplicate the Romantic sound in the soft, expressive dynamics



I'm sure you are right, and I think that ism's little audio example illustrates that.



ism said:


> This is the LSO.


Yes, it was recorded with London Symphony Orchestra, and/but I don't think Henrik B. Jensen thought it was done with CSS, but that CSS could do some of what LSO did here. Btw, here's a recording with another orchestra – also beautifully done, and among the most touching 50 seconds of orchestral music ever composed:



Like Karma from Spitfire, I think that the _mf_ layer could benefit from being more molto – and see now that due to the way x-fade between SAS-layers with different amounts of vibrato (and dynamics) can be combined with x-switching (just activate a 'pure layer' with an articulations set/expression map), the future looks rather bright – for Abbey Road modular! 



Finally, regarding this (again):
"They are crossfades, but done in such a way that the user can get the 'true' dynamic sample isolated at certain points on the modwheel:

_ff_ - 127 (100%)
_f_ - 95 (75%)
_mf_ - 64 (50%)
_mp_ - 31 (25%)
_pp_ - 9 (7.5%)"

If only 13 out of 127 CC levels actually does _not_ trigger a mix between several layers (with different vibrato and dynamic intensity), doesn't that mean that what you hear in circa 90% of the 'CC situations', we hear a crossfade between two vibrato levels? It doesn't sound that bad, does it? 

_To noobs/newcomers to this thread: I don't dislike Spitfire Appassionata. It's probably my favorite SF library (but I don't own it). _


----------



## CT

Vik said:


> If there are no proper samples of intense vibrato at mf, and not at the other 4 dynamic layers, it's unfortunately not dependent on the orchestration


Ok....


----------



## Karma

I think that Blakus' demos are 2 great examples of both the more intense higher dynamics of the library, as well as the soft.

For example...



...and then the softer parts in this:


----------



## Markus Kohlprath

Tekkera said:


> Do you think the low dyn transitions would sound warmer if I opted for close microphones and set up my own reverb with MIR Pro


This honestly I would avoid like the plague.


----------



## stigbn

I plan to get Appassionata, but then I saw a review where there a couple of 'false' notes esp. a high g on violins 1, it sounds like some of the players plays a wrong note.
Is that something anyone here has noticed or is it not something I should worry about?


----------



## Scamper

stigbn said:


> I plan to get Appassionata, but then I saw a review where there a couple of 'false' notes esp. a high g on violins 1, it sounds like some of the players plays a wrong note.
> Is that something anyone here has noticed or is it not something I should worry about?


If super clean samples are important for you, than it might be a bit of an issue. Spitfire libraries can have some imperfections, but personally I don't mind it or kind of prefer it that way.
Still, the Appassionata Strings sounds pretty clean to me and I have not heard any wrong notes or samples, that sound really off. Within an arrangement especially, I don't think you'll notice anything.


----------



## Markrs

Karma said:


> ...and then the softer parts in this:



These sound lovely. I have avoided this thread before so I wasn't tempted but now I can get it for 50% during the Edu sale, I have made the mistake of listening to these demos.


----------



## Ricgus3

Markrs said:


> These sound lovely. I have avoided this thread before so I want tempted but now I can get it for 50% during the Edu sale, I have made the mistake of listening to these demos.


It truly is amazing!


----------



## Brasart

Yep, super cool library, I'm using it way more than I thought I would be


----------



## RyanRhea

Brasart said:


> Yep, super cool library, I'm using it way more than I thought I would be


Me too! It's my fav string lib for legato and sustains... all sections put together on the sustain patch is just gorgeous sounding. 👍🏻


----------



## idematoa

released October 11, 2022
01 - Spitfire Audio - Appassionata Strings - Cellos (6) - Legato
02 - Spitfire Audio - Appassionata Strings - Violins 1 (8) - Legato
03 - Spitfire Audio - Appassionata Strings - Violins 2 (6) - Legato
04 - Spitfire Audio - Hans Zimmer Strings - 60 Cellos - Long


----------



## Mike Fox

How’s the low end on these?


----------



## Soundbed

Mike Fox said:


> How’s the low end on these?


Hey @Mike Fox

I was blending the higher Appassionata strings with the newer Fractured Strings (FS) and they blended / transitioned very nicely.

However the cellos did not translate as well. (FS has no legato.)

Appassionata is more subdued, maybe silky, maybe “smoother” or darker, or even — as one commenter on my video stated — muddy sounding (but that’s going a bit far, I think). 

Of course, Fractured Strings is aesthetically sharp and defined in many places. And my comments say more about the high end of the low end, as it were.

But — if I were looking for “great low end strings”, I would not be thinking of Appassionata first. That’s not to say they’re not good, but it might not be their strongest quality.

Other opinions might vary, and a little EQ could go a long way.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Mike Fox said:


> How’s the low end on these?


Perhaps not "monstrous" or "beefy", but controlled and impactful in the right context. Easy to enhance with plugins if needed. 

In my own demo, listen to how it comes in at 0:27 (give yourself 5 seconds lead-in for the impact). That's a soft dynamic, but the low end (sub) is well and truly there. Again at 0:54, slightly louder.
From 1:12, you've got the low strings only playing ascending scales. That should give you an idea of low end.





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


So it’s legato only (and some Hairpin)… nothing that SCS doesn’t cover. So why bother? I don’t get it tbh^^ This one has a warmer, more romantic sound




vi-control.net


----------



## Mike Fox

Thanks so much guys!


----------



## Mike Fox

Jdiggity1 said:


> Perhaps not "monstrous" or "beefy", but controlled and impactful in the right context. Easy to enhance with plugins if needed.
> 
> In my own demo, listen to how it comes in at 0:27 (give yourself 5 seconds lead-in for the impact). That's a soft dynamic, but the low end (sub) is well and truly there. Again at 0:54, slightly louder.
> From 1:12, you've got the low strings only playing ascending scales. That should give you an idea of low end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread
> 
> 
> So it’s legato only (and some Hairpin)… nothing that SCS doesn’t cover. So why bother? I don’t get it tbh^^ This one has a warmer, more romantic sound
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net


Excellent demo, my friend! I think you may have just sold me with that.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

Mike Fox said:


> Excellent demo, my friend! I think you may have just sold me with that.


Go for it! It is one of the best options for legato strings available. And you'd most likely have to wait until at least the spring sale to get it for a lower price (40% off @ $149 instead of the current 30% off @ $179). It's too new for inclusion in a 40% off sale, which only happens after a library has been out for a full year.


----------



## mussnig

Justin L. Franks said:


> Go for it! It is one of the best options for legato strings available. And you'd most likely have to wait until at least the spring sale to get it for a lower price (40% off @ $149 instead of the current 30% off @ $179). It's too new for inclusion in a 40% off sale, which only happens after a library has been out for a full year.


Sometimes -40% happened for sales shortly before the 1 year anniversary of a library's release (e.g. Albion Neo was released in January 2020 and IIRC it got -40% during the Christmas sale of the same year). So there is hope that you can get Appassionata for 40% off next month. And obviously, those with EDU discounts could already get it for 50% off in September/October.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

mussnig said:


> Sometimes -40% happened for sales shortly before the 1 year anniversary of a library's release (e.g. Albion Neo was released in January 2020 and IIRC it got -40% during the Christmas sale of the same year). So there is hope that you can get Appassionata for 40% off next month. And obviously, those with EDU discounts could already get it for 50% off in September/October.


Yes, but it is rare, and only if it is _just_ under a year since release. I checked the release date of Appassionata, I thought it was in March, but it actually was in the end of January. So there is a small chance it will be included @ 40% off during the Christmas sale. That is assuming that it is a 40% off sale, because the current sale is only 25% instead of the 40% it was last year.


----------



## Mike Fox

Justin L. Franks said:


> Go for it! It is one of the best options for legato strings available. And you'd most likely have to wait until at least the spring sale to get it for a lower price (40% off @ $149 instead of the current 30% off @ $179). It's too new for inclusion in a 40% off sale, which only happens after a library has been out for a full year.


My only hesitation is that i have SO many string libs! Berlin, CSS, CS2, Century, SSS, SCS, Afflatus, Soaring Strings, Adventure Strings, Trailer Strings, Areia, Hollywood Strings, LASS, etc. etc., 

Would Apassionata bring something new to the table? Not sure, but I do know that I love the sound of these strings, and the playability seems excellent. 

Also, we all know that you can never have too many string libs!


----------



## borisb2

Mike Fox said:


> i have SO many string libs! Berlin, CSS, CS2, Century, SSS, SCS, Afflatus, Soaring Strings, Adventure Strings, Trailer Strings, Areia, Hollywood Strings, LASS, etc. etc.,
> 
> Would Apassionata bring something new to the table?


Yes - good legato 😎 … fantastic sounding and easy to play


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## Mike Fox

Spent some time with Appassionata this morning, and must say I’m pleasantly surprised! 

I was hesitant at first, mainly because the library requires the SA player (which doesn’t run so great on my machine), and also for the sheer fact that I have a ridiculous amount of string libs as it is. Also, Spitfire’s playability and QC has always been hit and miss, so I was also weary of that. 

But not even a minute into playing Appassionata, I knew that Spitfire had created one of my favorite string libs for soaring lines and romantic passages. Everything from the tone to the playability is just damn near perfect. In terms of programing, this feels like light years ahead of their SCS and SSS libraries, so I have to give credit to SA for stepping things up. 

My only complaint is that I wish the strings had just a touch more vibrato. Some sort of vibrato control would have me giving this library a 10/10, but I realize that there is no perfect string library, and the positive attributes of Appassionata easily outweigh this negative. 

Thanks to everyone who recommended the library to me, as well as Jdog’s gorgeous demo. You guys couldn’t have been more helpful!


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## Jeremy Spencer

Mike Fox said:


> My only complaint is that I wish the strings had just a touch more vibrato. Some sort of vibrato control would have me giving this library a 10/10, but I realize that there is no perfect string library, and the positive attributes of Appassionata easily outweigh this negative.


Ditto! I was also pleasantly surprised. I'm now hoping for a Con Sordino edition.


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## Karma

Mike Fox said:


> Spent some time with Appassionata this morning, and must say I’m pleasantly surprised!


Always appreciate reading comments like this. Really glad you're enjoying the library.  

It's very much noted on the areas we can take this even further, and there has been a _lot_ of work towards that behind the scenes


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## Flyo

Karma said:


> Always appreciate reading comments like this. Really glad you're enjoying the library.
> 
> It's very much noted on the areas we can take this even further, and there has been a _lot_ of work towards that behind the scenes


Thanks
Now we need also shorts articulations for Strings as update, and new releases... 
Woodwinds and Brass sections with same articulations across all sections and same legato approach! 
Even more success


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## Mike Fox

Karma said:


> Always appreciate reading comments like this. Really glad you're enjoying the library.
> 
> It's very much noted on the areas we can take this even further, and there has been a _lot_ of work towards that behind the scenes


I'm happy to see that Spitfire is taking our comments to heart! This is exactly the kind engagement that benefits everyone. And while I have been critical of certain Spitfire libraries in the past regarding programming, and playability, there seems to have been a shift recently, because I first noticed this with Legendary Low Strings, and how playable the library was. It's completely effortless to play, which inspires me to play and compose!

Unfortunately, the SA player caused so many issues on my system that i had to stop using the library altogether. It was disheartening, because I absolutely love the sound of that library. That being said, I was willing to give it another go, because the sound of Appassionata was just too amazing to pass up, and thankfully I haven't experienced any issues yet.

But I'll just say this...

Spitfire has done something truly amazing with Appassionata. This is one of those libraries that not only sounds incredible, but _feels_ incredible to play. The eq is perfect. The mice placement is perfect. The stereo imaging is perfect. The noise floor is perfect, etc., etc.

I know I sound like a fanboy right now (believe me, i'm not), but there is magic is in these strings!

As long as Spitfire continues to make libraries like this, I'll continue to buy them, and i would love nothing more than to see expansions of this amazing library.

Thank you for taking the time to stop and read our comments here. It means a lot!


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## STMICHAELS

Flyo said:


> Thanks
> Now we need also shorts articulations for Strings as update, and new releases...
> Woodwinds and Brass sections with same articulations across all sections and same legato approach!
> Even more succes





Mike Fox said:


> I'm happy to see that Spitfire is taking our comments to heart! This is exactly the kind engagement that benefits everyone. And while I have been critical of certain Spitfire libraries in the past regarding programming, and playability, there seems to have been a shift recently, because I first noticed this with Legendary Low Strings, and how playable the library was. It's completely effortless to play, which inspires me to play and compose!
> 
> Unfortunately, the SA player caused so many issues on my system that i had to stop using the library altogether. It was disheartening, because I absolutely love the sound of that library. That being said, I was willing to give it another go, because the sound of Appassionata was just too amazing to pass up, and thankfully I haven't experienced any issues yet.
> 
> But I'll just say this...
> 
> Spitfire has done something truly amazing with Appassionata. This is one of those libraries that not only sounds incredible, but _feels_ incredible to play. The eq is perfect. The mice placement is perfect. The stereo imaging is perfect. The noise floor is perfect, etc., etc.
> 
> I know I sound like a fanboy right now (believe me, i'm not), but there is magic is in these strings!
> 
> As long as Spitfire continues to make libraries like this, I'll continue to buy them, and i would love nothing more than to see expansions of this amazing library.
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to stop and read our comments here. It means a lot!


Mike, 

I really enjoyed reading your personal experience on Appassionata. 

It is very important to be inspired by the sound and feel inspired when you play the instrument. 

I have no experience with Spitfire products. I actually do not own any libraries as of today. 
Question - have you been able to pair it with CSS and do they blend ok together? 

Would be very interested in your thoughts on that....


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## Mike Fox

STMICHAELS said:


> Mike,
> 
> I really enjoyed reading your personal experience on Appassionata.
> 
> It is very important to be inspired by the sound and feel inspired when you play the instrument.
> 
> I have no experience with Spitfire products. I actually do not own any libraries as of today.
> Question - have you been able to pair it with CSS and do they blend ok together?
> 
> Would be very interested in your thoughts on that....


I haven’t actually tried to pair CSS With Appassionata yet, so I apologize for not being able to provide any info on that. 

But to be totally honest, Appassionata is what I originally wanted CSS to be, so it’s funny you bring it up! 

Unfortunately, I was never a big fan of CSS. Yes, the legato is top notch, and that’s what it’s renowned for, but there are so many more important aspects to a string library than just the legato, like tone and playability, and I could never gel with either of those with CSS. 

Sorry, kind of a buzzkill answer.  

But you know what I’m actually thinking? I wonder how well CSSS would layer with Appassionata. Perhaps the size and vibrato of that library would compliment it nicely.

Maybe someone can speak on this?


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## STMICHAELS

Mike Fox said:


> I haven’t actually tried to pair CSS With Appassionata yet, so I apologize for not being able to provide any info on that.
> 
> But to be totally honest, Appassionata is what I originally wanted CSS to be, so it’s funny you bring it up!
> 
> Unfortunately, I was never a big fan of CSS. Yes, the legato is top notch, and that’s what it’s renowned for, but there are so many more important aspects to a string library than just the legato, like tone and playability, and I could never gel with either of those with CSS.
> 
> Sorry, kind of a buzzkill answer.
> 
> But you know what I’m actually thinking? I wonder how well CSSS would layer with Appassionata. Perhaps the size and vibrato of that library would compliment it nicely.
> 
> Maybe someone can speak on this?


Definately - would be interesting to hear both how Appasionata sits with CSS and CSSS. 

Not sure if there is anyone on this thread that can provide a mockup of those together.... Would be very helpful!


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## ism

The CSS/CSSS vibrato is very different. I don't know how it would blend, but the minute you layer such different phrasings, you loose all the detail of Appassionata's natural voice. I would think.

It might be a pleasant enough effect, but it would be an aggregate blur.


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## Kevperry777

STMICHAELS said:


> Definately - would be interesting to hear both how Appasionata sits with CSS and CSSS.
> 
> Not sure if there is anyone on this thread that can provide a mockup of those together.... Would be very helpful!


Just an opinion…but I don’t find them to blend well at all. CSS has a lot more ‘fuzz’ to the sound and vibrato. That plus the obvious different sounding rooms….they are just tonally in different directions. I do find Appassionata works well with AROOF, Neo, SCS.


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## Jackroberts

STMICHAELS said:


> Definately - would be interesting to hear both how Appasionata sits with CSS and CSSS.
> 
> Not sure if there is anyone on this thread that can provide a mockup of those together.... Would be very helpful!


If anyone's still curious how Appassionata blends with CSS, that's actually become my preferred string library combo and the results have been pretty convincing so far. Here's a work-in-progress demo with those two combined - melody starts at 0:40.
View attachment Paradise Lost v1.18.mp3


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## catibi79

Jackroberts said:


> If anyone's still curious how Appassionata blends with CSS, that's actually become my preferred string library combo and the results have been pretty convincing so far. Here's a work-in-progress demo with those two combined - melody starts at 0:40.


Beautiful ! Thanks for posted.


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## Peter Satera

Jackroberts said:


> If anyone's still curious how Appassionata blends with CSS, that's actually become my preferred string library combo and the results have been pretty convincing so far. Here's a work-in-progress demo with those two combined - melody starts at 0:40.


Ive been using them together too, ive found it to work with pretty much anythin'


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## ism

Jackroberts said:


> If anyone's still curious how Appassionata blends with CSS, that's actually become my preferred string library combo and the results have been pretty convincing so far. Here's a work-in-progress demo with those two combined - melody starts at 0:40.


Lovely piece. That's an interesting, blurry, fantastical, slightly transcendent sound. Very different from what I try to draw out of Appassionata (I'm really not one for layering), and very nice.


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## Jackal_King

For anyone who's uses the built-in reverb in Appassionata, how much (what percentage) of the hall reverb do you put in your composition for this before adding a reverb plugin (ex: Seventh Heaven) during the mixing stage?


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## Jdiggity1

Jackal_King said:


> For anyone who's uses the built-in reverb in Appassionata, how much (what percentage) of the hall reverb do you put in your composition for this before adding a reverb plugin (ex: Seventh Heaven) during the mixing stage?


20-25%


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## Jackal_King

Jdiggity1 said:


> 20-25%


Thanks! Was testing it at 65% but it seemed a bit much. I'm using the tree and outriggers instead of the mix mics this time and just trying to find the right spot of using the reverb without it sounding real muddy.


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