# Whats your recommendation for a good "mid-range" set of mics for recording piano / guitar ?



## ManicMiner (Oct 24, 2019)

How many microphones would you recommend to capture a piano well in one session.
Also, might be looking at capturing a guitar and other stringed instruments too.

Whats a good all-rounder mic(s) that you would recommend - price range around $300 per mic.
(Would love some Coles : ) but price range is too high atm... )


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## wst3 (Oct 24, 2019)

There are so many variables - probably the most important would be what kind of sound are you trying to capture. You mentioned Coles, which suggests you are interested in a ribbon microphone vibe?

I don't usually suggest ribbon microphones to folks without (a) a reasonable quiet room, (b) a very quiet preamplifier, and (c) some time/experience with placing microphones. If you're good with all that I'd suggest the Royer R10, but it is well above your budget. Still, it is a really flexible ribbon microphone.

As a rule I like small capsule condensor micrphones for piano and especially acoustic guitar. With some care in placement you can use them to record mandolin too.

My favorites include:

Telefunken M60 - roughly $600/pc - flexible, and difficult to place badly.
Warm Audio WA-84 - roughly $750 for a pair - disclosure, I've only had these on loan for a week or so, but thus far I am impressed.
AKG C-451b - roughly $450 each, and a real workhorse that you'll find everywhere. They are available used for around $300 each on eBay and Reverb, and this is one of the few that I have no concerns about purchasing used.
All of which are higher than your budget, but they are all great microphones. Almost as great, and closer to your target:

Shure KSM137 - this is a very neutral microphone, some folks like that, some don't, I do.
Studio Electronics SE8 - only used it once, in a live setting, and was really pleased with the results
Audio Technica ATM450 - sounds a lot like their AT-4031, which I use for acoustic guitars a lot
Rode NT5 - a real workhorse, I find it to be finicky for placement, but that's not always a deal breaker
Audix ADX51 - another one I've only used a couple times, but really liked.
Maybe give these a listen as a starting point.

Bill


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## MaxOctane (Oct 24, 2019)

Another vote for SE8. 

I highly recommend a *pair* of mics for acoustic guitar, especially if it will be very exposed in the mix. I'm just a hobbyist, but it wasn't until I used a stereo pair that the guitar ever sounded "present".

I just picked these up and really enjoying them:








sE Electronics sE8 Stereo Pair


Small-diaphragm Cardioid Condenser Mic with Gold-sputtered Capsule, 80Hz and 160Hz Highpass Filters, 10dB and 20dB Pads, and Gold-plated XLR - Stereo Pair with Mic Clips, Wind Screens, Stereo Bar, and Metal Storage Case




www.sweetwater.com


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## CGR (Oct 24, 2019)

Great suggestions here. I'd suggest also the Rode NT4 (stereo XY mic - same capsules as the NT5). Built like a tank, very low self noise, 20Hz - 20kHz frequency range & 143dBSPL so handles piano well. I use one on my small acoustic grand pointing into the harp above the hammers from about the height of the music rest, and it captures a natural sounding, mono-compatible stereo image. Around $520 USD.


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## VinRice (Oct 24, 2019)

Everybody should have a pair of small condensers. Lewitt 340's get a lot of love.


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## JohnG (Oct 24, 2019)

I would rent (hire) them. Then you can get great mics.

Owning mics doesn't really pay that well unless you record a fair bit. I have some nice ones I use, but honestly when I have the budget for more than one or two players -- I usually hire a studio anyway.


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## MaxOctane (Oct 24, 2019)

JohnG said:


> I would rent (hire) them. Then you can get great mics.
> 
> Owning mics doesn't really pay that well unless you record a fair bit. I have some nice ones I use, but honestly when I have the budget for more than one or two players -- I usually hire a studio anyway.



From where? Last I looked into renting high-end Neumanns, I only found a crazy expensive service.


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## BlackDorito (Oct 24, 2019)

I would start by considering whether your goal is to record a particular piano in a particular room, or if you want a pair of all-around good spot mics for various purposes. If it's a particular piano, and especially if it is a large grand, recording it can be tricky. [I'm concentrating on the piano because if you get a pair of decent condensers, they'll work well for the guitar too.] If you want to close-mic a specific piano (perhaps because you want an immersive wide stereo sound) then there is the issue of getting an even tone between the treble and bass, and the possibility of mechanical noise. If you find there are frequency peaks (like my piano), you can consider using a pair of omni's (omnidirectional) like Earthworks which will minimize this. If OTOH you want a sound that is less wide/immersive because you want the piano to share sonic space with other instruments, then you would want a pair of mics that will be situated further away and can pick up the piano within the room. Mic'ing a piano can be more challenging than the typical Close-Tree-Ambient choices you get with a VI library .. but the idea is generally the same.

The above considerations are just some of what you will deal with, so it's complicated. There are several forums where people argue about mics and many YouTubes explaining where to place mics for recording piano. The info you can get is actually quite confusing and contradictory - there is no one way to mic a piano. Generally the mics in question are $500+. If you don't want to mess with expensive stuff and complicated setups but just want to connect two mics and then sit down and play, then you can get a pair of small diaphragm condensers for $300, e.g. Shure, as long as you don't intend to scrutinize the sound too much.

What I've discovered after years of trying loads of different mic types and configurations, is that the new VI piano libraries are pretty awesome and much easier to use. For this reason (sadly), I rarely mic my own piano any more.


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## JohnG (Oct 25, 2019)

MaxOctane said:


> From where? Last I looked into renting high-end Neumanns, I only found a crazy expensive service.



Probably depends on where you live. In Los Angeles there are good options.

But the main thing for me is that I end up going elsewhere to record most of the time, so my nice mics sit on the shelf most of the year.


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## spyder (Dec 11, 2019)

Just to piggyback on this thread, I am looking for a small diaphragm condenser mic to record my Martin 000-28. I am thinking of a Rode NT4 or NT5 or an AKG C-451b. What is the view on these? Also, I am only considering a single mic but would the advice be to always use pairs on an acoustic guitar?


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## wst3 (Dec 11, 2019)

I am currently playing with the Warm Audio WA-84, which is their take on the KM-84. So far so good, although I am not ready to buy a pair yet. I have used the Rode microphones you mentioned, and I have a pair of C-451s (the original version). I have also used the 451b, and it is different, but not better or worse.

Any of these, and a handful of others could do the trick - other favorites of mine include the Audio Technica AT-4031/51s, and the Earthworks SR-77s.

Since I do not know what your guitar, or your room, sound like everything here is pure speculation!

My first choice for a 000 would be a KM-84, but they are stupid expensive, and 30 years old. So my second choice... probably the AKG C-451. It is a sound that most folks will recognize. Or the AT-4031, which is my favorite on a Larrivee OM that I have.

I would not use the Earthworks, it is almost too clinical, too detailed. And the Rode falls into a similar vein - unless that's the sound you are looking for.

See - it is really difficult to answer questions like this except to say if you can borrow or rent microphones and try them for yourself you'll stand a better chance of making a good choice.

There are two others I should mention - the Telefunken M60 is a really nice sounding microphone - I bought it to take the place of the KM-84s I couldn't justify, and they aren't that. But they are good. The Mojave MA-100, now discontinued, is another good choice, I like it on mandolins a lot, and on some guitars.

These are, of course, all small diaphragm condenser microphones and that is what most folks think of when they want to record an acoustic guitar. Fair enough. For a smaller body I also like ribbon microphones - I mention this because it is a cool sound, but it is probably not the sound you are looking for.

Lastly, one or two microphones. That depends as much on the space in which you record, and your tastes as anything else.

If you are using two microphones you can record in stereo, which can be nice, or you can point one at each end of the instrument (loosely speaking) and blend them together to get the exact sound you want.

I tend to record everything in stereo, half the time I use only one microphone, or collapse them down to mono. Unless you have a reason to record in stereo I think you'll be happier with one really good microphone instead of a pair of good microphones.

Hope that helps


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## spyder (Dec 12, 2019)

Many thanks Bill for that comprehensive and very helpful answer, much appreciated. The Neumann would be nice, but I can't justify that price so you have helped me make my mind up and for now I will go with a single AKG 451. Thanks again.


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## wst3 (Dec 12, 2019)

I don't believe you can go wrong with the C-451 family of microphones. And starting with one lets you get a better microphone, and it eliminates the hassles of recording in stereo. You will probably get there, but you don't have to start there. AND, the "b" version is very consistent, so when you choose to explore stereo recording you can add a second one without worrying too much about a matched pair.

I can't afford, or justify purchasing a pair of KM-84s, I made the grave mistake of borrowing a pair earlier this year to prove to myself that it was all myth and legend - it isn't. They really are remarkable microphones.

But I no longer record others, so there is no way they would pay for themselves, even overtime. $3k is about average for a pair these days - that's a LOT of sessions<G>!

My locker exists solely because I did record folks for years, and as my ears improved (as I gained more experience?) I added different microphones to my collection. I've considered selling them off, I don't use them nearly enough, but they are all paid for (except the recent purchase of the M60s, they are paid for, but haven't earned me any money yet).

I am also old and set in my ways, and selecting the right microphone is just plain habit.

If I were starting now, and I were not recording folks I'd rent. The collection really is pretty silly. Perhaps I can use it for my children's college fund???

Nah - as my late wife pointed out, every time I used the word investment to describe a guitar or microphone, it ain't an investment if you never plan to sell it<G>!


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## spyder (Dec 12, 2019)

Mic ordered, thanks again for your help


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## dohm (Dec 20, 2019)

Check out this thread on the RM BIV ribbon mics (get the matched pair). There are an amazing deal and punch way above their price. I have an amazing Yamaha S7X grand piano and love to record with it. My favorite mics to use on grand piano are DPA 4006s, Schoeps MK21 CMC6, and RM BIV-1. Obviously the RM BIVs are much lower cost than the others. They also work great on upright pianos. Here is a link to some classical recordings using the RM BIV stereo pair. Can't go wrong with the other mics suggested in this thread too.

Piano Recordings


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## Pablocrespo (Dec 20, 2019)

dohm said:


> Check out this thread on the RM BIV ribbon mics (get the matched pair). There are an amazing deal and punch way above their price. I have an amazing Yamaha S7X grand piano and love to record with it. My favorite mics to use on grand piano are DP 4006s, Schoeps MK21 CMC6, and RM BIV-1. Obviously the RM BIVs are much lower cost than the others. They also work great on upright pianos. Here is a link to some classical recordings using the RM BIV stereo pair. Can't go wrong with the other mics suggested in this thread too.
> 
> Piano Recordings


I have the RM BIV but find them a bit noisy with low volume signals, do you use a ribbon preamp or something else to have more clean gain?


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## dohm (Dec 20, 2019)

They are passive, so I like to use a UAD Apollo x8P or Twin X. Sometime I also like to use the Neve unison preamp in the Apollo. I place the mics about 12-18inches above the strings - one near the high strings and the other over the crossover area. I like the silky sound of the RM BIV.


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## D_wave27 (Apr 23, 2020)

Hello all, 
I’m looking to find some good mics for recording myself playing violin. i’m a professional symphony musician but do to Covid I’ll be on my own for awhile! Looking currently at WA-84 and the Telefunken M60. Any thoughts as to what might be best and the difference between these two specifically? Wondering If the extra cost for the M60s are worth it. Thanks so Much for your thoughts!


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