# Looking to purchase a powerful desktop PC



## Daniel Petras (Feb 13, 2017)

So I have some money that I would like to put towards a PC powerhouse. I've used windows all my life, so I think I would like to stick to that. However, if there is something that sways me into purchasing a mac I'm not opposed.

If anyone would be willing to give some helpful advice on building a something powerful or share their specs, it would be greatly appreciated. Are there any websites, businesses, etc. that are recommended for purchasing parts? I'm not so tech savvy, but I know with the right purchases it will greatly improve my workflow. I'm currently on a laptop and it's beginning to drive me insane.

My budget is between $2000 and $2500 give or take. Thanks!


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Feb 13, 2017)

For under $2000 you can get a PC with an i7-7700k and 64GB as well as SSDs. That's what I'd go with. You can't really top that without spending a significant amount more (at which point you get better performance by getting a second PC). I spent about $3000 on mine as I had to to get 64GB at the time but had I waited a couple of months, I could've saved $1000 from not having to go X99 just to get 64GB. I do have the option of upgrading to 128GB which is nice though. You would need to spend closer to $3000 to have that possibility. 

You can get a remarkably quiet PC. I'd suggest getting a higher end case with a number of large fans (~5) and then replace them all with Noctua fans using the ultra low noise adapter. If you're going for silence you should also get a power supply that keeps the fan off below a certain power usage (the RMi is what I use). Noctua also for the CPU cooler. I couldn't fit it in my case and had to use an intel stock cooler and it's already very quiet. 

From recent discussions here it seems that the onboard graphics work fine which save you some $$.


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## Daniel Petras (Feb 13, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> For under $2000 you can get a PC with an i7-7700k and 64GB as well as SSDs. That's what I'd go with. You can't really top that without spending a significant amount more (at which point you get better performance by getting a second PC). I spent about $3000 on mine as I had to to get 64GB at the time but had I waited a couple of months, I could've saved $1000 from not having to go X99 just to get 64GB. I do have the option of upgrading to 128GB which is nice though. You would need to spend closer to $3000 to have that possibility.
> 
> You can get a remarkably quiet PC. I'd suggest getting a higher end case with a number of large fans (~5) and then replace them all with Noctua fans using the ultra low noise adapter. If you're going for silence you should also get a power supply that keeps the fan off below a certain power usage (the RMi is what I use). Noctua also for the CPU cooler. I couldn't fit it in my case and had to use an intel stock cooler and it's already very quiet.
> 
> From recent discussions here it seems that the onboard graphics work fine which save you some $$.


Thanks. First of all, are you advising to build a PC or buy one that has already been built? I thought it was cheaper to build a PC and wasn't clear if you were talking about building one.

Although I sometimes do a little bit of recording for sound design, having a quiet PC is not a priority at this point as most of my composing has been leaning towards using samples and synths. It's something to think about for the future though.

When you say SSDs how many do you mean? I bought one about 6 months ago to replace the HDD in my laptop and I have to say I bought a bottom of the line one as I foolishly didn't do any research before hand. I'm curious to know if the prices have gone down since then.


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## Tysmall (Feb 13, 2017)

http://www.natex.us/Intel-S2600CP2J-Dual-E5-2670-128Gb-Kit-p/s2600cp-cpu-128gb-12800.htm

server boards have a lot of limitations to look into before purchasing but have insane power per dollar. More ideal for a slave build imo.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Feb 13, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> Thanks. First of all, are you advising to build a PC or buy one that has already been built? I thought it was cheaper to build a PC and wasn't clear if you were talking about building one.
> 
> Although I sometimes do a little bit of recording for sound design, having a quiet PC is not a priority at this point as most of my composing has been leaning towards using samples and synths. It's something to think about for the future though.
> 
> When you say SSDs how many do you mean? I bought one about 6 months ago to replace the HDD in my laptop and I have to say I bought a bottom of the line one as I foolishly didn't do any research before hand. I'm curious to know if the prices have gone down since then.



Building your own. You won't find anything like that on the market without paying a fortune. Almost all computers around that price and using that processor are gaming computers which means they never get 64GB, have graphics cards that are useless for us, and have colorful lights on ridiculous looking cases.

There is a situation where I would recommend buying prebuilt though. That would be for lower end computers. You can get a i7-6700 with 32GB for around $1000. You just can't find the parts for that little if you want to build yourself. The downside is that those don't go past 32GB. Anything above 32GB and you should build yourself (of buy from a DAW PC company although you'll typically spend a lot more). Really great bang-for-your-buck though.

The price difference in making it almost silent will probably be around $100 so I'd say go for it unless you have a machine room. I've gotten so used to it being quiet that I've had to get rid of all HDDs in the room as they're too loud. The only one left is in my Mac mini and it's starting to make scratching noises which is driving me nuts.

I originally got 2 Evo SSDs in mine to complement the ones I already had. For under $2000 you could probably get a 256GB for the OS and a 512GB for samples.

I'd stay away from Xeons and server boards. You'll get better realtime performance from i7's with motherboards that cost 1/4 of what Tysmall suggested.


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## Tysmall (Feb 13, 2017)

I have not ordered mine yet so I cannot comment. My 4790k chokes atm though, I don't think one pc is ideal in most situations for what we do. At least until ryzen brings the intel prices down on the 10 cores


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Feb 13, 2017)

To give you an idea - I just added up some rough parts for a computer with i7-7700k, 64GB, 250GB Evo SSD, near-silent cooling, and W10 Pro and it was $1500. Didn't include the cost of having a shop build it which is usually less than $100.

It'll probably provide a significant improvement over your laptop. You can step up to something higher end with 6 cores and it'll add probably at least $500 but you have to see whether it's actually worth it for you.


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## Tysmall (Feb 13, 2017)

The thing about natex boards, is even if the cpus aren't as powerful as 32 virtual cores sound (Fox body 5.0, if you understand the reference) ... you're still getting 128gb of ram two cpus and a mobo for the price of 128gb ddr4. They are refurbished and have no usb3 though lol. I'll give a thorough review when i pull the trigger on mine.

I don't know how much i'd want it as my main board though... as i stated in my op. Slow boots, awful usb connections, refurbished server parts (that run 24/7 under most conditions, which is very hard on the components) etc etc.

But for a slave with lots of ram and cores for 600 bucks I can't say no.


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## Daniel Petras (Feb 13, 2017)

Although my laptop is decent for a laptop, it's very frustrating trying to work with string samples that are constantly cutting out, and it's also annoying to have to freeze and unfreeze samples to make the smallest of edits.

My currents specs are i7-6500u cpu @ 2.50ghz and 8gigs of ram.

I'll definitely get another monitor if I have left over money, as I can only imagine how much less clicking I'll be doing.


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## Tyll (Feb 14, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen's advices are great. 7700k/68GB RAM/2x500GB Samsung 850Evo/Noctura Fans/a quite case (e.g. FractalD R5) and you should be good to go for years.
Also note that this is probably the highest you can go without the price/value ratio going absurd. You can always go lower and still make great music - as you already noticed. Especially on the RAM and SSDs you can easily save some money and upgrade later without any problems. As you are fine with 8GB RAM, you'd probably be in heaven with 32 and the other 32 would just be wasted money. Just make sure you get 2x16GB instead of 4x8GB so you can upgrade later.
How many monitors do you have? I have three set up as one above the other two and it's the best I can imagine. They are not even expensive anymore.


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## Daniel Petras (Feb 14, 2017)

Tyll said:


> How many monitors do you have? I have three set up as one above the other two and it's the best I can imagine. They are not even expensive anymore.


Currenly I'm just working off my laptop screen which is very cumbersome. I spend a lot of time opening and closing windows. I don't know if my desk will be big enough for 3 screens. Perhaps if I get stands for my monitors it might.

I wouldn't really say I've been fine with 8gigs of RAM. I've been forced to always have to freeze tracks and then purge the plugins to save for other things. 32 would probably be a good amount to start.


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## Daniel Petras (Feb 15, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> You can step up to something higher end with 6 cores and it'll add probably at least $500 but you have to see whether it's actually worth it for you.



I noticed a lot of the 6 cores were about $100 more. Are you saying $500 because it requires a more expensive motherboard?

On another note, has anyone heard of the AMD Ryzen? I read it was coming out in early 2017. It might be worth it to wait a little bit to see if it effects other prices.


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## Tysmall (Feb 15, 2017)

The high end cpus (6+ cores) don't include heatsinks, as well as motherboards being more expensive. 500 might be an exaggeration unless you want to overclock the hell out of it. Also note ddr4 vs ddr3 and power reqs.

I would wait for ryzen if you were looking at general consumer pcs. Intel will have to respond if amd goes through with their projected prices. ( launch prices will be higher, I don't think anything will happen for a few months).


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## J-M (Feb 15, 2017)

The Ryzen prices have leaked and they are ridiculous for what you get (on paper). I recommend waiting for some benchmarks before deciding.


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## Rohann (Feb 15, 2017)

Good advice here. Building your own is absolutely worth it.

Partslist for my rig:
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/byDFrH

The R5 case is extremely modular, really happy with that decision. I can add memory or HDD's/SSD's very quickly. I also have 2x Seagate Barracuda's in there, one for file storage and less demanding sample libraries, and another for backup. Also have it backing up to a cloud service (Backblaze) for redundancy.

If I had to re-do it, I may have gone for a 5820k, but I don't know about the real-world performance benefits as the 4790k has a significantly higher stock clock speed. 64GB RAM would be nice as a ceiling though; I'll likely be upgrading to 32GB RAM relatively soon here. The Scythe Kotetsu fan is dead quiet, as is the Fractal case with fans going full.

When I was calculating before I found that a 5820k would be around $200-300 more expensive, due to DDR4 RAM costs, the X99 MB and the CPU itself. That said, if you're interested, there's a Reddit group that will proxy-buy CPU's and the like from Microcenters and ship them to you if you don't live near one; that saved me about $100 on my CPU and MB combo.


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## Daniel Petras (Feb 15, 2017)

Rohann said:


> there's a Reddit group that will proxy-buy CPU's and the like from Microcenters and ship them to you if you don't live near one; that saved me about $100 on my CPU and MB combo.



That's good to know. I do believe there are some around where I live. Are you saying they generally sell the components at these stores for cheaper?


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Feb 15, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> The 6 core processors seem to be approximately $100 more. Why are you saying
> 
> 
> I noticed a lot of the 6 cores were about $100 more. Are you saying $500 because it requires a more expensive motherboard?
> ...



Because of the motherboard which can also cost $200 more. With the lower end CPUs you can find cheaper motherboards ($150) but with X99, it's made for higher end gamers so you end up being limited to more high end boards. 

A $500 difference might be exaggerated. I'm just trying to compare with my PC which ended up costing $3300 CAD at the time but I also need to factor in that I could only get 8GB dimms at the time so ram also ended up being more expensive for 64GB and I got a 3 year warranty which was several hundred dollars more. Without that it probably would come to around $2000 USD so you can probably go with X99 for less than a $500 difference. 

I did have a lot of problems initially with X99 (the shop had to completely rebuild the computer twice and replace the mobo 3 times) so I won't be getting X99 again but it seems to work fine for everyone else.


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## Rohann (Feb 15, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> That's good to know. I do believe there are some around where I live. Are you saying they generally sell the components at these stores for cheaper?


Considerably cheaper, yes, depending on the deals available.

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/9874b76e#/9874b76e/33


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## Daniel Petras (Feb 17, 2017)

Hey guys, what are your preferences when it comes to working with monitors? I'm on the fence right now over 2 monitors vs a wide screen.

Also, It's hard to find a definitive answer on whether a six core would be better over the i7 7700k. Are there noticeable benefits that more cores are going to provide when working in a DAW (Reaper for me)?

My number one priority is to work smoothly with a large number of samples making sure they don't cut out.


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## Desire Inspires (Feb 17, 2017)

Get a Razer Blade.


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## Rohann (Feb 17, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> Hey guys, what are your preferences when it comes to working with monitors? I'm on the fence right now over 2 monitors vs a wide screen.
> 
> Also, It's hard to find a definitive answer on whether a six core would be better over the i7 7700k. Are there noticeable benefits that more cores are going to provide when working in a DAW (Reaper for me)?
> 
> My number one priority is to work smoothly with a large number of samples making sure they don't cut out.


Having spent oodles of time researching 6 vs 4 core, the benchmark numbers are better for a hex core, but as many here point out in other threads, it doesn't _necessarily_ equate real world performance. Apparently Logic and other DAWs have constraints about cores used depending on where samples are loaded, how many are loaded into an instrument, how many are utilized during recording/playback, etc. You can OC a 5820k to about 4Ghz depending on whether or not you win the "chip lottery", but you run into other potential issues with trying to build on an X99 platform.

You can still get 4790k processors for under $300, and the RAM is dirt cheap. I think the benefit of a 7700k is more RAM and slightly higher clock speed.
From the general impression I get, having a decent "first computer", i.e. something like a 7700k with a decent amount of memory, is pretty important. If your templates start getting way too large or you need more, I don't know if the difference between that and a hex core will really be all that noticeable. It seems more efficient to just build a slave unit at that point.


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## JohnG (Feb 17, 2017)

Rohann said:


> Logic and other DAWs have constraints about cores used



it varies substantially between DAWs.


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## Daniel Petras (Feb 20, 2017)

I'm currently looking at getting a single 27 inch 1440p screen for my build and then adding a 2nd one over time. Would people say this is a good route to go as opposed to buying two smaller 1080p monitors to begin with? I've seen the comparison between the two resolutions and it almost seems that you can fit the same amount of information if not more on a 1440 vs 2 smaller 1080s. Does anyone see any drawbacks of taking this route?


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## Alohabob (Feb 20, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> Does anyone see any drawbacks of taking this route?


How is your vision? I used to have a monitor with 1200 lines and over time, since the text seemed to be smaller I had to go down to two 1080s.


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## Daniel Petras (Feb 20, 2017)

Alohabob said:


> How is your vision? I used to have a monitor with 1200 lines and over time, since the text seemed to be smaller I had to go down to two 1080s.


Last time I checked it was 20/20 and I eat my veggies, so it should be good for a while.


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## Rohann (Feb 20, 2017)

Have you considered a big 1080p TV? I.e. 40" or similar? Tend to be cheaper than monitors in some cases, especially 1440p.


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## Daniel Petras (Feb 20, 2017)

Rohann said:


> Have you considered a big 1080p TV? I.e. 40" or similar? Tend to be cheaper than monitors in some cases, especially 1440p.



I don't think it's ideal for my setup as my desk is somewhat small, I would be sitting quite close and I'd like to avoid any blurriness.


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## Rohann (Feb 20, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> I don't think it's ideal for my setup as my desk is somewhat small, I would be sitting quite close and I'd like to avoid any blurriness.


Ah I understand, I had the same problem. High res can be a problem at distance but if you're pretty close it might work well. I noticed a 24" 1080p was smaller than I thought mid-workflow.


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## gjelul (Feb 20, 2017)

Slick Audio PC's.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Feb 20, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> I'm currently looking at getting a single 27 inch 1440p screen for my build and then adding a 2nd one over time. Would people say this is a good route to go as opposed to buying two smaller 1080p monitors to begin with? I've seen the comparison between the two resolutions and it almost seems that you can fit the same amount of information if not more on a 1440 vs 2 smaller 1080s. Does anyone see any drawbacks of taking this route?



I prefer to go with a larger display over multiple displays. 40" 4k is my number one suggestion. A single 1440 or 2 1440 would be my next suggestion. I wouldn't go with 1080. Personally I'm not a fan of the widescreen monitors. For not much more you can get a 40" 4k which is twice the resolution of those anyways.


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## Fab (Feb 20, 2017)

^ Yeah, but only problem I have found with larger 40" monitors is the viewing angle. because they are so tall its not always easy getting it at the right height or distance. There are ways around it sure, but yeah...just a thing to keep in mind. Especially for eye sight


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## Rohann (Feb 20, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I prefer to go with a larger display over multiple displays. 40" 4k is my number one suggestion. A single 1440 or 2 1440 would be my next suggestion. I wouldn't go with 1080. Personally I'm not a fan of the widescreen monitors. For not much more you can get a 40" 4k which is twice the resolution of those anyways.


Not much more? Are 4k's that cheap now? I haven't looked in a while but about a year ago a decent 40" 4k would run around $2000 at least.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Feb 20, 2017)

Rohann said:


> Not much more? Are 4k's that cheap now? I haven't looked in a while but about a year ago a decent 40" 4k would run around $2000 at least.



I got my Philips monitor for under $700. It was on sale but it was just a random sale and not one of the major sales like boxing day. Most of the widescreen ones start at around $500. Especially for the curved ones. With this you're getting twice the resolution. I don't know why people go for those monitors when you can get these for not much more. It can be a problem if you have a center channel though. Mine is raised quite high to be above the monitor but I still get some "masking" by the monitor (maybe not the correct term).


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## Rohann (Feb 20, 2017)

That's actually quite reasonable.

That said, if budgetary restrictions are a reality, a display is easily something that can be upgraded later. Plenty of composers have created and mixed amazing records on small 1080p or less screens. For $500 a 4k TV is pretty reasonable, but that would likely be in the "upgrade" category for myself.


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## Daniel Petras (Feb 20, 2017)

The majority of 1440 27 inch seem to be out of my budget at this point, so I'm hoping maybe I'll find a deal somewhere. Has anyone had any experience with the budget monitors at this size? This for example: 

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/YZn2FT/benq-monitor-gw2765ht

It's $400.00 Canadian. specs look good, but it's kind of ugly.


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## Rohann (Feb 20, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> The majority of 1440 27 inch seem to be out of my budget at this point, so I'm hoping maybe I'll find a deal somewhere. Has anyone had any experience with the budget monitors at this size? This for example:
> 
> https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/YZn2FT/benq-monitor-gw2765ht
> 
> It's $400.00 Canadian. specs look good, but it's kind of ugly.


Decent reviews from the looks of it. Look up the monitor on Amazon and look for reviews there too. BenQ monitors are popular with gamers -- if you're going to to any video or anything and want something more precise for colour editing, they're not really the greatest. For DAW work exclusively you don't need anything like that though.


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## tigersun (Feb 21, 2017)

Just threw this together... https://pcpartpicker.com/list/V3vFpb

Didn't see you're in Canada so who knows on the price. And no monitor. I put in two 1TB Samsung M.2 SSDs just because. I really want one of those - the read speed is ridiculous.

Also see if you can find the LG 34UM95 I got mine a couple years ago for like $450 but they've been replaced by newer models and they aren't as available as they used to be. Just avoid the UM67 that's 1080p.


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## Daniel Petras (Feb 21, 2017)

Thanks for that!

This is my current working build if anyone would be kind to point out any faults: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/4MQnM8

$2200 USD is a little steep for me at this point. Also I think I'll be comfortable with 32gb of RAM right now

My main concern is if a graphics card will be necessary. My main use will be composing with a ton of samples. On top of that I'm getting into a bit of game development in Unity, but nothing heavy in terms of graphics (mostly just scripting for audio and whatever art assets there might be). I might also do some light video editing, but nothing serious. Does having a 1440p monitor and doing the stuff I mentioned above justify buying a graphics card or will the on-board of the i7 7700k suffice?

Also there always seems to be deals happening, so perhaps that will open up my budget a bit to upgrade other things.


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## tigersun (Feb 22, 2017)

You could definitely save a bit by going with a Hyper 212 Evo or Cryorig H7 instead of the Noctua cooler. $300 for the RAM seems pricey. On the GPU I would say skip it at first, I think the newer iGPUs are supposed to do 4K and 1440p should be fine. Don't bother with the 850 Evo M2, it's literally just a 2.5" SSD put into the M2 format (unless you just want some minimalism in your case). Probably should save up to get the 1TB 960 Evo since you will probably want as many libraries on that as possible once you get it.


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## passsacaglia (Feb 23, 2017)

tigersun said:


> You could definitely save a bit by going with a Hyper 212 Evo or Cryorig H7 instead of the Noctua cooler. $300 for the RAM seems pricey. On the GPU I would say skip it at first, I think the newer iGPUs are supposed to do 4K and 1440p should be fine. Don't bother with the 850 Evo M2, it's literally just a 2.5" SSD put into the M2 format (unless you just want some minimalism in your case). *Probably should save up to get the 1TB 960 Evo* since you will probably want as many libraries on that as possible once you get it.


What he said.


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## Daniel Petras (Feb 24, 2017)

Those SSDs are painfully expensive!

Also it looks like the US price of the i7 7700k has fallen while the CAD price has risen. What is this black magic?


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## Rohann (Feb 24, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> Those SSDs are painfully expensive!
> 
> Also it looks like the US price of the i7 7700k has fallen while the CAD price has risen. What is this black magic?


The nonsense of exchange prices. If you're in Canada, get yourself an Amazon Visa card. No USD exchange fee, I'm getting 1.31 as opposed to 1.35 for USD purchases and when you're spending 3k this amounts to quite a bit. And again, Microcenter proxy buying is your friend if they're far away.

Have a look at Samsung Evo 850's and the like. I don't think massive SSD capacity is really all that necessary -- the only thing I have that needs an SSD so far is EW HW Strings. It's something you can progressively add. I also think 1TB SSDs will likely get much cheaper over time as it's relatively new tech to the mainstream market. Keep in mind there are core things you'll need and things you can gradually add while already working. 7200RPM drives are decently fast for a lot of samples, only really demanding ones will make use of an SSD. Some will rely more heavily on RAM.

PC Part Picker is great for finding deals. Remember to check Amazon.com as well as Newegg Canada. Also try and look at open box deals on Newegg or Canada Computers -- I found a GTX960 for less than 200 there. I should mention that I ran into a weird CPU spiking issue with the onboard GPU on my 4790k specifically with EastWest instruments that needed an aftermarket GPU to fix.


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## tigersun (Feb 24, 2017)

On the 850 Evo SSDs, just get whichever interface is cheaper - SATA or M2. 960 Evo M2 have a new memory stack and/or new controller that allows it to actually take advantage of the bandwidth M2 can support. 850 Evo use the same controller on the SATA and M2 versions.

But yeah, as Rohann mentioned an SSD isn't critical so you can wait. I just think if you're going to get an M2 SSD you should get the sweet new 960 Evo with as much space as you can afford


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## sazema (Feb 25, 2017)

Does anyone has experience with HP Z210 i7 2600 workstations? Is it worth? Is it possible to put 32Gb of ram? I can get it at price of 300 EUR.
I am also at the stage of replacement and I have 2 choices:
- completely switch my machine
- keep existing parts (case, PSU, graphic card, etc...) and just buy new motherboard, cpu and RAM.
As I am still on Dual Core E8400 I have no idea what to do. Buy this Z210 or ...


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## Rohann (Feb 26, 2017)

tigersun said:


> On the 850 Evo SSDs, just get whichever interface is cheaper - SATA or M2. 960 Evo M2 have a new memory stack and/or new controller that allows it to actually take advantage of the bandwidth M2 can support. 850 Evo use the same controller on the SATA and M2 versions.
> 
> But yeah, as Rohann mentioned an SSD isn't critical so you can wait. I just think if you're going to get an M2 SSD you should get the sweet new 960 Evo with as much space as you can afford


I think it's important to remember that benchmarks aren't _necessarily_ the greatest thing to pay attention to with in/out speeds. The major benefit of an SSD is non-existent seek times. That said, I'm not overly familiar with the newer 960 series or the like, but what I do know is that an 850 EVO or similar will already put you far ahead of an HDD.


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## Daniel Petras (Mar 1, 2017)

Rohann said:


> I don't think massive SSD capacity is really all that necessary -- the only thing I have that needs an SSD so far is EW HW Strings.


Completely agree, it always seems to be the string libraries


Rohann said:


> And again, Microcenter proxy buying is your friend if they're far away.


It seems like that has been shut down as it wasn't a very lucrative business. The Amazon visa thing seems interesting though.


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## Rohann (Mar 1, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> Completely agree, it always seems to be the string libraries
> 
> It seems like that has been shut down as it wasn't a very lucrative business. The Amazon visa thing seems interesting though.


The Amazon Visa already saved me $20 on a sample library. Not a ton of money, but significant when added up over time with zero extra effort once the card is had, especially considering it's just a bank charge.

Different format now but still significantly cheaper:
http://gift-thrift.com/

Search a processor or the like.


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## Daniel Petras (Mar 12, 2017)

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/8hNGNN

So this looks like it will be close to resembling my final build. I guess the next step is to seek out and buy the parts. I'm still a little hesitant on the SSD purchase, but I don't think I can go any higher than the 850 Evo. I also have another 1T HDD for the less intensive samples. Does anyone have any experience running their samples, DAW and OS all on one 850 Evo?


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## Rohann (Mar 12, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/8hNGNN
> 
> So this looks like it will be close to resembling my final build. I guess the next step is to seek out and buy the parts. I'm still a little hesitant on the SSD purchase, but I don't think I can go any higher than the 850 Evo. I also have another 1T HDD for the less intensive samples. Does anyone have any experience running their samples, DAW and OS all on one 850 Evo?


A few points:
-Get the R5 case. Wait for a sale if necessary. The modular nature of the case will save you a great deal of time and headache and the thing is reeeally quiet. So easy to hide cables, make modifications and clean it. I got mine for $125CAD I think.
-How important is a quiet PC for you? I ended up with a Scythe Kotetsu fan and a Rosewill (Superflowet) PSU and they're both really quiet, though I'm not familiar with what you've picked. Might be worth looking up just in case. You've got a good PSU picked there though: (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2547993/psu-tier-list.html)
-850 Evo's are great from what I read. My 250GB is plenty fast; remember, the most important thing is nonexistant seek times. I'd add some HDD's for backup and for saving projects onto (you don't really need them streaming from SSD, the need for SSD is often exaggerated).

I (out of necessity not choice) run my OS and DAW and some samples off one SSD for noe and it's honestly fine. You could always add a 250GB SSD for your DAW and OS though, not super expensive and worth it in the long run.


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## Daniel Petras (Mar 12, 2017)

Rohann said:


> A few points:
> -Get the R5 case. Wait for a sale if necessary. The modular nature of the case will save you a great deal of time and headache and the thing is reeeally quiet. So easy to hide cables, make modifications and clean it. I got mine for $125CAD I think.
> -How important is a quiet PC for you? I ended up with a Scythe Kotetsu fan and a Rosewill (Superflowet) PSU and they're both really quiet, though I'm not familiar with what you've picked. Might be worth looking up just in case. You've got a good PSU picked there though: (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2547993/psu-tier-list.html)
> -850 Evo's are great from what I read. My 250GB is plenty fast; remember, the most important thing is nonexistant seek times. I'd add some HDD's for backup and for saving projects onto (you don't really need them streaming from SSD, the need for SSD is often exaggerated).
> ...


Thanks. A quiet PC is not a priority for me at this time, so as long as there isn't anything that gets in the way of my mixing, it should be okay. Yes, it seems many are recommending a separate SSD for OS and DAW, so I might get a smaller 850 evo for that (I think a 250gb and 500gb combo should actually be enough for me, but we'll see what kind of deals there are). I do have a 1TB HDD for more space.


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## Daniel Petras (Mar 12, 2017)

Is there any info out on the Ryzens compared to the i7s for DAW work yet? I'm thinking I'll stick to the 7700k, but damn I don't know what I'm doing when it comes to building computers lol. I hope this first build ups my PC build intellect.


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## Rohann (Mar 12, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> Thanks. A quiet PC is not a priority for me at this time, so as long as there isn't anything that gets in the way of my mixing, it should be okay. Yes, it seems many are recommending a separate SSD for OS and DAW, so I might get a smaller 850 evo for that (I think a 250gb and 500gb combo should actually be enough for me, but we'll see what kind of deals there are). I do have a 1TB HDD for more space.


Fair enough. Still get the R5 case though, it's very much woryh it and often cheaper than the R4. A friend who builds PCs for a living can't say enough good about it.
That kind of combo sounds good. Would still suggest another HDD for redundancy (they're really cheap), and probably a Cloud backup service like Backblaze ($5/month).



Sonorityscape said:


> Is there any info out on the Ryzens compared to the i7s for DAW work yet? I'm thinking I'll stick to the 7700k, but damn I don't know what I'm doing when it comes to building computers lol. I hope this first build ups my PC build intellect.


Hmm, not sure. That said, I've been adamantly dissuaded from using AMD processors for DAW work by professional and home DAW builders alike so never considered it.


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## Daniel Petras (Mar 17, 2017)

the i7 6700k is on sale for 379.99 CAD. I'm thinking of pulling the trigger. Any thoughts?

https://www.mikescomputershop.com/product/5516043


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 17, 2017)

> https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/8hNGNN
> 
> So this looks like it will be close to resembling my final build.



Note that you'll save over $200 by choosing a different brand of SSD than Samsung.



> I also think 1TB SSDs will likely get much cheaper over time



Right now there's a flash RAM shortage, apparently. I paid $200 for my 1TB Mushkin drive last summer, and they're about $260 now.


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## Daniel Petras (Mar 17, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Note that you'll save over $200 by choosing a different brand of SSD than Samsung.



What would you suggest? I thought Samsung had the best speeds. I recently changed my plan from a 1tb 850 evo to a 500g 850 EVO and a 250g 960 EVO m.2 - will save about 100 dollars at a 250g loss which I don't really need.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 18, 2017)

I have one SSD on a SATA 3 card, the others are on my Mac's built-in SATA 2 bus ("limited" to 300 megs/sec). It takes about eight seconds to load a Quantum Leap Bosendorfer on the SATA 3 vs. ten on the SATA 2 bus. BFD

Samsung may have the best speeds, but given that halving the bandwidth makes so little difference, I can't imagine you'd notice their better specs. What they do have is the best warranty (5 years vs. 3), but... let's put it this way: I've had no SSD failures in the couple of years I started adding them, and I have two Crucials, a Mushkin, a San Disk, and a PNY.

Samsung probably is the best. But I'd much rather have $200 and another SSD.

You can probably buy a Samsung sticker for your drive and pretend.


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## lp59burst (Mar 19, 2017)

After a long justification meeting with my CFO (aka my lovely wife... ) I finally received the "go ahead" to upgrade my PC. I already have the case, drives (4x1TB SSD, 4x4TB SSHD, 2x8TB HDD, 4x4TB USB3 Ext.), 1200w PS, high-end water cooling system, etc, so don't need anything there. Besides music I do semi-pro photography and I enjoy playing the occasional high-end game so this upgrade has all of that covered.

Here's what I'm looking at getting (comments / thoughts would be aprrecieted):

Intel Core i7-6900K 3.2GHz 8-Core
Asus Rampage V Edition 10 EATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard
G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 128GB DDR4-3000 Memory
EVGA 11G-P4-6390-KR GeForce GTX 1080Ti 11GB Video Card
I want 8-cores which seems to be the best price / performance for now. The i7-6950 is 10 cores but it's $500+ more and I don't think I'd see a worthwhile benefit from those 2 extra cores. I'd rather get a M.2-2280 for VI's with the extra money. I looked the the AMD Ryzen 1800 but I'm not convinced it's the way to go, too soon to tell imho - and I'm not going rogue on a whim.


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## Daniel Petras (Mar 19, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> You can probably buy a Samsung sticker for your drive and pretend.


Thanks for sharing your expeirnence - definitely not a Samsung fanboy at all!


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## Daniel Petras (Mar 19, 2017)

lp59burst said:


> (4x1TB SSD, 4x4TB SSHD, 2x8TB HDD, 4x4TB USB3 Ext.)


Good luck on your quest to download the entire internet.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Mar 19, 2017)

lp59burst said:


> After a long justification meeting with my CFO (aka my lovely wife... ) I finally received the "go ahead" to upgrade my PC. I already have the case, drives (4x1TB SSD, 4x4TB SSHD, 2x8TB HDD, 4x4TB USB3 Ext.), 1200w PS, high-end water cooling system, etc, so don't need anything there. Besides music I do semi-pro photography and I enjoy playing the occasional high-end game so this upgrade has all of that covered.
> 
> Here's what I'm looking at getting (comments / thoughts would be aprrecieted):
> 
> ...


I would suggest that if it is for Pro purposes to go for the WS Series motherboards.
This will cover you when you want more connectivity, better throughput, performance etc.

Rampage boards are awesome and I have a RoG Maximus Formula VI, but for Pro work I would go with a Workstation series MOBO.

(FYI I work in IT, have built 6-7 PCs and have been a hardware enthusiast for about 7 years now)


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## Rohann (Mar 19, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> the i7 6700k is on sale for 379.99 CAD. I'm thinking of pulling the trigger. Any thoughts?
> 
> https://www.mikescomputershop.com/product/5516043


They look similar. I do remember some issues with Skylake though, so you might want to look into reviews for the 6700 for an audio system, but it should probably be fine.

Re: Samsung. Access speeds are kind of a moot point with SSD's. A second here or there makes no real world difference. What's important is reliability and warranty. I've read some pretty spotty reviews on certain OCZ and Crucial drives having technical issues. Not failing outright, but problems I'd want to avoid personally in an audio PC. The 850 EVO is a pretty fantastic midway for reliability and performance, as well as warranty. Might be worth checking out reviews. WD might be worth examining too, they have a decent reputation when it comes to drive manufacturing (the blue series is what I have in mind). The difference between an OCZ 500GB drive and an 850 EVO (not on sale) looks to be about $30-40. Do keep an eye out for sales, they do often happen around this time of year. Have a look at the price history on PCPartPicker and look at which months significant drops happen on Newegg and the like.


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## Rohann (Mar 19, 2017)

lp59burst said:


> After a long justification meeting with my CFO (aka my lovely wife... ) I finally received the "go ahead" to upgrade my PC. I already have the case, drives (4x1TB SSD, 4x4TB SSHD, 2x8TB HDD, 4x4TB USB3 Ext.), 1200w PS, high-end water cooling system, etc, so don't need anything there. Besides music I do semi-pro photography and I enjoy playing the occasional high-end game so this upgrade has all of that covered.
> 
> Here's what I'm looking at getting (comments / thoughts would be aprrecieted):
> 
> ...


At ten cores you're hitting a major price/performance wall, even 8 cores is getting there. Sometimes not a bad idea to run a slave instead, from what I read. What you need all that space for is beyond me, as well as a 1200w PS and a water-cooling system. This sounds a lot more like a gaming than an audio rig. I'm still able to run max settings with my GTX960 on things like HITMAN. Not super familiar with the needs for pro photography but I'd think a high end screen is probably where a good amount of the budget should go.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 19, 2017)

Rohann, not counting Seagate (a company whose products I avoid entirely, based on lots of experience with both failures and shitty customer service), any company can have issues. There may be certain OCZ and Crucial drives that had problems, but that doesn't mean those are brands to avoid - any more than Samsung's exploding smartphones taints their entire brand.

The Mushkin 1TB SSD I have - and that has been absolutely fine for a year - is now selling on Newegg for $250. Your Samsung 850 is $325. Mushkin has a 3-year warranty, Samsung 5.

I can't justify the extra money, but I don't insult people who do.


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## sostenuto (Mar 19, 2017)

Get Serious !! 

http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-surface-studio-review-2017-3


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## creativeforge (Mar 19, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> So I have some money that I would like to put towards a PC powerhouse. I've used windows all my life, so I think I would like to stick to that. However, if there is something that sways me into purchasing a mac I'm not opposed.
> 
> If anyone would be willing to give some helpful advice on building a something powerful or share their specs, it would be greatly appreciated. Are there any websites, businesses, etc. that are recommended for purchasing parts? I'm not so tech savvy, but I know with the right purchases it will greatly improve my workflow. I'm currently on a laptop and it's beginning to drive me insane.
> 
> My budget is between $2000 and $2500 give or take. Thanks!



I highly recommend you speak to Jim Roseberry at StudioCat. 

http://www.studiocat.com/opencart2/

He crafts machines for professional recording studios, musicians, engineers, prohect studios, for audio, video, etc. Built without weak links in the hardware, tested and guaranteed. Custom-designed to what you would want and need. He never disappoints and fully supports his products! 

Take a look at this tower, starting at $1539.99. You can customize it using the dropdown menus on the right:

http://studiocat.com/opencart2/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_65&product_id=56

Contact him to brainstorm and see what he says.


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## lp59burst (Mar 19, 2017)

Rohann said:


> At ten cores you're hitting a major price/performance wall, even 8 cores is getting there. Sometimes not a bad idea to run a slave instead, from what I read. What you need all that space for is beyond me, as well as a 1200w PS and a water-cooling system. This sounds a lot more like a gaming than an audio rig. I'm still able to run max settings with my GTX960 on things like HITMAN. Not super familiar with the needs for pro photography but I'd think a high end screen is probably where a good amount of the budget should go.


Regarding the space yup it's the photography. I have 10+ years of digital photo's backed up three times - one of which is a remote copy (that's what the USB3 externals are for). I have nearly 2TB's of VI's on 2x1TB SSDs (the rest on the SSHD), I boot from one SSD for OS and the other is to stream audio and video recording to.

And yes, I'm in to high end gaming like online car racing that's throwing sync'd video to three 27" screens. Even if I wasn't why buy a 2+ year old video card?

1200W PS was for the SLI setup in my current PC as well as all of those drives. I don't like going beyond 60% of a PS's rated Watts and it was on sale for not much more than most 850W ones were at the time.

Other than that you're right that I don't need all that stuff...


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## Daniel Petras (Mar 19, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> I highly recommend you speak to Jim Roseberry at StudioCat.
> 
> http://www.studiocat.com/opencart2/
> 
> ...



I don't understand. What does he do that others are not able to do? Is it just a service where he puts the components together for people who don't want to do it themselves?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 19, 2017)

Daniel: yup. And there are other people who do a great job of that too. Visiondaw.com (Mark Nagata) has been doing this for years, for example. You pay a premium for their service, and for a lot of people it's worth it. They test what works well with our software and put it together in rack enclosures, etc.; you know you're not going to have to worry about incompatibilities or bad performance.

I actually have two of their machines. One is a Pentium 4 from 2003, a machine I had in for a magazine review and that I ended up buying from them. It still works. The other is one I just bought from a forum member who was downsizing.

Of course most people put machines together themselves, or buy off-the-shelf ones (what I did for my first Giga machine was find out what they were using at Remote Control - whatever it was called then - and buy one of those). But VARs are Value-Added Resellers.


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## creativeforge (Mar 19, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> I don't understand. What does he do that others are not able to do? Is it just a service where he puts the components together for people who don't want to do it themselves?



Daniel, Jim has been building custom systems professionally since the 1990s. So he's not just an Ikea assembler. He designs packages you can pick from and customize, or he builds to specs, everything gets tested and is guaranteed. All his machines are spec'd for audio and multimedia usage. I trust him because I've used his product, as well as others who make a living with music, some well-known. I found it to be very dependable. My next machine upgrade will still be coming from him.

And he is very reasonably priced. No bullshit. No "premium" pricing. He will also tell you why he recommends a certain item over another for your particular needs.

He's not the only one doing this, of course, there's a lot of talent out there. But I think referrals from actual users is a big help. As Nick is doing too.

Daniel, my advice to you is talk to as many shops as possible, find reviews, contact people who use their products, and of course never go on hearsay alone. Good luck on your search.


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## Rohann (Mar 19, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Rohann, not counting Seagate (a company whose products I avoid entirely, based on lots of experience with both failures and shitty customer service), any company can have issues. There may be certain OCZ and Crucial drives that had problems, but that doesn't mean those are brands to avoid - any more than Samsung's exploding smartphones taints their entire brand.
> 
> The Mushkin 1TB SSD I have - and that has been absolutely fine for a year - is now selling on Newegg for $250. Your Samsung 850 is $325. Mushkin has a 3-year warranty, Samsung 5.
> 
> I can't justify the extra money, but I don't insult people who do.


Fair. Not saying those are brands to avoid, but specifically the cheap OCZ that was floating around a few years ago as well as a few of the cheaper 1TB drives I've read about in the same price category were really poorly reviewed. It's not all about namebrand, but Samsung 850's are really quite reasonable and have a well-reviewed track record of reliability. Certainly not the only option, but a good option. I'll have to look into the Mushkin SSD -- I _do _know that cheaper high-capacity SSD's are becoming more and more the norm, and if you're not after insane read/writes, they seem like they're becoming a good option. I'm personally keeping my OS on an Evo (something I consider reliable), as it's an enormous pain to lose in case of some sort of malfunction, but I also own Seagate HDD drives knowing full well they're not great but these particular drives have a 3 year warranty and were dirt cheap. Cloud backup and other redundancy too which circumvents that. I'll certainly look into the Mushkin; $250 for 1TB is a solid price.



lp59burst said:


> Regarding the space yup it's the photography. I have 10+ years of digital photo's backed up three times - one of which is a remote copy (that's what the USB3 externals are for). I have nearly 2TB's of VI's on 2x1TB SSDs (the rest on the SSHD), I boot from one SSD for OS and the other is to stream audio and video recording to.
> 
> And yes, I'm in to high end gaming like online car racing that's throwing sync'd video to three 27" screens. Even if I wasn't why buy a 2+ year old video card?
> 
> ...


Ah, makes a bit more sense now. The "occasional high-end game" doesn't sound quite like what you've described, but if this is all the case then you've done your homework. The water-cooling, SLI setup, etc is all pretty superfluous for audio work but makes sense for gaming. Curious to know how the 1080i works out, looks like a beast. I simply bought a 960 as it was on sale and I needed to replace the stock Intel HD graphics as it was interfering with EW PLAY.


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## Rohann (Mar 19, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> I don't understand. What does he do that others are not able to do? Is it just a service where he puts the components together for people who don't want to do it themselves?


Shops like the aforementioned and DAW Plus aren't doing anything magical. You can put a PC together quite well by yourself. The difference with purchasing from them is that they have years of experience of building PC's specifically for audio work, and they do it well. You'll have support from them for a long time (not like it's often needed with how well some of these shops put PC's together) as well as warranties on the build, and they'll service the PC in ways you might not think of, like adding acoustic foam, optimizing Windows for audio work, amongst a myriad of other things that can be tedious to learn how to do and how to troubleshoot. I put mine together myself, but I'm reasonably knowledgeable about PC's and had a friend helping me. I'm also on my own (with Toms Hardware, Gearslutz and the like, but the process is obviously much more iterative and slow) if things go wrong or if a particular part needs replacing, servicing, etc (i.e. I returned...5 LG screens to Costco because of light bleeding around the edges. Still got a decent IPS for a bargain, but it was a pain). Buying a PC from an audio PC builder basically means paying a premium for someone who knows more than you or I do about audio PC building to do it for you and offer support and guarantees in the process. If I had the money, I'd certainly go that way as it's really quite worry free and many places do an outstanding job, but I didn't in this case and am still happy with my own build. Depends on what you prefer and can afford.
I will say that if you're looking for an audio specific PC I'm not sure I'd recommend a "custom" builder that builds gaming rigs, as you'll probably pay a similar price for an audio DAW builder anyway and they'll be more knowledgeable when it comes to driver compatibility, ideal part value, what's necessary vs. what isn't, etc.

PS -- You're at a disadvantage in Canada, unfortunately. DAW builders up here are expensive in comparison, and while they're certainly still worth it depending on your situation, I found the difference between building and buying to be more significant.


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## creativeforge (Mar 19, 2017)

Well spoken, Rohann. I know a few people who rolled their own, for various needs, and haven't met one who has had a smooth ride. Yes, it's manageable. But as you mention, paying someone who has been on top of things for decades, up to date with various hardware quirks, best hardware combos, and who can tweak an OS to be optimized for an audio dedicated machine, making sure the DAW we use also is playing nice, as well as drivers to use or not, allowing you to be worry-free: that is something to really consider. Which I did, and never looked back.

Canada: what gives me pause right now is how strong the US dollar is compared to the Canadian. That 25% gap is not negligible! I could do a search to find DAW builders here, I haven't bothered at the time (5 years ago).


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## Daniel Petras (Mar 20, 2017)

The problem I find with getting someone else to build my PC is that there is no learning involved. If I want to be an audio professional I don't see the benefit of paying someone $700 to $800 more to do my learning for me, especially when money is tight and there is already an overwhelming amount of helpful information on the internet. On top of that, how does someone know my needs better than I do? He doesn't know know how many gigabytes of samples I have, how many USB slots I'm going to need, what the ideal monitor is for me or what I do outside of audio production. To me the whole point of building a PC is to customize it exactly to your liking and it kind of defeats the purpose when someone else does it for you, whether they know a lot or not. I'm quite okay with making mistakes if it means I'll learn something from it.


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## chimuelo (Mar 20, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> The problem I find with getting someone else to build my PC is that there is no learning involved. If I want to be an audio professional I don't see the benefit of paying someone $700 to $800 more to do my learning for me, especially when money is tight and there is already an overwhelming amount of helpful information on the internet. On top of that, how does someone know my needs better than I do? He doesn't know know how many gigabytes of samples I have, how many USB slots I'm going to need, what the ideal monitor is for me or what I do outside of audio production. To me the whole point of building a PC is to customize it exactly to your liking and it kind of defeats the purpose when someone else does it for you, whether they know a lot or not. I'm quite okay with making mistakes if it means I'll learn something from it.



I pay 160 bucks with OS Install when I'm too busy to do diagnostics and builds.
Go to a local phone repair shop, most guys there also are gadget orientated.
Just buy the parts needed for particular needs.
When I do the OS Install I pay somebody 100 bucks to run diagnostics and build.
Much more fun doing it yourself, but I often travel so using a local guy is convenient.


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## Rohann (Mar 20, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> The problem I find with getting someone else to build my PC is that there is no learning involved. If I want to be an audio professional I don't see the benefit of paying someone $700 to $800 more to do my learning for me, especially when money is tight and there is already an overwhelming amount of helpful information on the internet. On top of that, how does someone know my needs better than I do? He doesn't know know how many gigabytes of samples I have, how many USB slots I'm going to need, what the ideal monitor is for me or what I do outside of audio production. To me the whole point of building a PC is to customize it exactly to your liking and it kind of defeats the purpose when someone else does it for you, whether they know a lot or not. I'm quite okay with making mistakes if it means I'll learn something from it.


I'm not sure I would have been _as_ comfortable had I not had an experienced friend to help. I can almost guarantee they'll do a tighter job than anyone as a first-time builder, so that was never a concern for me, but in the same way I didn't have the cash to justify spending it on someone else building it and doing it with help was something I wanted to learn anyway. I do believe it's worth the money, as they will certainly be able to think of/apply things an inexperienced builder won't, but it's not what I wanted to spend mine on. I've run into a few issues, such as driver problems, but I'm relatively comfortable with troubleshooting and the little I had to do was basic in any case. PC works great and I'm glad I did it.

The reason having someone experienced can help is because they can show you basic methods of application that can save you a lot of headache and potentially money, such as applying the right amount of thermal paste, properly connecting the CPU to the mobo, making sure the PC is grounded and you're always touching it so as to avoid static charges on sensitive parts, etc. I'd agree with the above and say take it to a local computer shop and see if anyone will help you build it for a small fee. It's pretty straight-forward, but little tricks during your first build will make it a lot more enjoyable.
And seriously, get an R5 case over an R4.


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## Rohann (Mar 20, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> Well spoken, Rohann. I know a few people who rolled their own, for various needs, and haven't met one who has had a smooth ride. Yes, it's manageable. But as you mention, paying someone who has been on top of things for decades, up to date with various hardware quirks, best hardware combos, and who can tweak an OS to be optimized for an audio dedicated machine, making sure the DAW we use also is playing nice, as well as drivers to use or not, allowing you to be worry-free: that is something to really consider. Which I did, and never looked back.
> 
> Canada: what gives me pause right now is how strong the US dollar is compared to the Canadian. That 25% gap is not negligible! I could do a search to find DAW builders here, I haven't bothered at the time (5 years ago).


Thanks. I for one mostly have, to be honest. I don't regret my decision, it hasn't been at all like many other "DIY" projects that aren't worth the time or headache. It's been pretty smooth sailing. Again, worth it for the money, but not mandatory by any means. I'm not running Pro Tools though .

And 25% gap? I wish. Try 33%.


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## creativeforge (Mar 20, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> The problem I find with getting someone else to build my PC is that there is no learning involved. If I want to be an audio professional I don't see the benefit of paying someone $700 to $800 more to do my learning for me, especially when money is tight and there is already an overwhelming amount of helpful information on the internet. On top of that, how does someone know my needs better than I do? He doesn't know know how many gigabytes of samples I have, how many USB slots I'm going to need, what the ideal monitor is for me or what I do outside of audio production. To me the whole point of building a PC is to customize it exactly to your liking and it kind of defeats the purpose when someone else does it for you, whether they know a lot or not. I'm quite okay with making mistakes if it means I'll learn something from it.



To answer your question about "How does someone knows my needs better than I do?" I would say that if you have never built a machine, anybody building them would know better than you what you need after you tell them what you will use the machine for. It's a matter of knowing the usage: hobby vs pro, audio or video, only recording or also using VSTis, duplicating CDs/DVDs, gaming, etc. It's why they are still in business. 

But, many of us don't have the luxury of time, or the kind of mind that can process all the technical info and research required to make sure things don't blow up, what components play nice together or not, what difference a letter can make in the name of a particular piece's model, etc. But if learning is what you seek, then you will be best to do it yourself, of course. And like you said, there is plenty of resources online, and even in this forum I'm sure. 

Let us know how you do!


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## creativeforge (Mar 20, 2017)

Rohann said:


> Thanks. I for one mostly have, to be honest. I don't regret my decision, it hasn't been at all like many other "DIY" projects that aren't worth the time or headache. It's been pretty smooth sailing. Again, worth it for the money, but not mandatory by any means. I'm not running Pro Tools though .
> 
> And 25% gap? I wish. Try 33%.



33% Where do you live?


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## creativeforge (Mar 20, 2017)

Now I wonder if I couldn't roll my own, actually, I'll check to see if that would work, and how. Could be fun and rewarding...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2017)

Andre, as a moderator I need to tell you to stop the personal attacks on another member: me. This is how threads get sour, and it's totally unnecessary - and I don't care what your role is on the forum.

And by the way, other than a coincidental email I exchanged with Mark this week, it's been well over ten years since I had any communication at all with Visiondaw!

So no, I don't have an axe to grind at all, nor did I diss your recommendation. I was just explaining what VARs do in response to a different post.


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## Rohann (Mar 20, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> 33% Where do you live?


http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?From=USD&To=CAD


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## SBK (Mar 20, 2017)

wanna buy the best (almost) cpu? 10 cores!
*Core i7-6950X Processor Extreme Edition*


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## Daniel Petras (Mar 20, 2017)

Rohann said:


> http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?From=USD&To=CAD


Dammit Canada!! Get your act together! I'm gonna work in the US for a couple years and then come back a prince.


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## Rohann (Mar 20, 2017)

SBK said:


> wanna buy the best (almost) cpu? 10 cores!
> *Core i7-6950X Processor Extreme Edition*


$1649 for one 10-core processor. Or, for that money, you could buy 3x 6700k's and still have money left over for RAM for each of them, ending up with 12 cores at a much higher clock speed that run independently through VEPro. I wouldn't doubt that even 2x 7700k's or the like with max RAM would run more efficiently.



Sonorityscape said:


> Dammit Canada!! Get your act together! I'm gonna work in the US for a couple years and then come back a prince.


I hear you, though the US is the last place I'd want to make any sort of residence in the western world right now. Google search "usd vs CAD dailyfx" and they'll give you a trend and daily report on the exchange. I often wait for dips which can end up saving you 3-4% depending on the week. Add to that the Amazon no exchange fee Visa and you're saving potentially 5-7% on your build, which at $2000 isn't insignificant.


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## creativeforge (Mar 20, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Andre, as a moderator I need to tell you to stop the personal attacks on another member: me. This is how threads get sour, and it's totally unnecessary - and I don't care what your role is on the forum.
> 
> And by the way, other than a coincidental email I exchanged with Mark this week, it's been well over ten years since I had any communication at all with Visiondaw!
> 
> So no, I don't have an axe to grind at all, nor did I diss your recommendation. I was just explaining what VARs do in response to a different post.



My bad. I'm sorry I misunderstood your intentions. I will remove my comment.


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## Daniel Petras (Apr 14, 2017)

Really good deals going on Noctua fans - just bought one myself for 57% off on amazon.ca


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## creativeforge (Apr 14, 2017)

^ Last week I got myself a Noctua fan, and then replaced my PSU with a EVGA 750W G3, and I can't hear anything. The only mystery now is this very quiet low pulsating drone noise. I have a heat sink over the CPU, no fan there.


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## Daniel Petras (Apr 14, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> ^ Last week I got myself a Noctua fan, and then replaced my PSU with a EVGA 750W G3, and I can't hear anything. The only mystery now is this very quiet low pulsating drone noise. I have a heat sink over the CPU, no fan there.


Nice, I just bought the EVGA 650W which was on sale last week for 120CAD with a $20 MIR, which I don't think I'm going to try and claim.


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## creativeforge (Apr 14, 2017)

^ Dang it. That moment when you stop working on your stuff cause you started listening to someone's amazing work on Soundcloud!


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## Daniel Petras (Apr 14, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> ^ Dang it. That moment when you stop working on your stuff cause you started listening to someone's amazing work on Soundcloud!


Thank you, sir! And I very much know that feeling..


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## Phryq (Apr 18, 2017)

As far as samples libraries, I think the most important factor for the CPU is Front Side Bus, right?

And it seems the 7700k, Xeon E3 1200 and Xeon E3 1500 all have the same bus speed; 8 GT/s DMI3. Don't know about Ryzen.


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## Daniel Petras (Apr 18, 2017)

Phryq said:


> As far as samples libraries, I think the most important factor for the CPU is Front Side Bus, right?
> 
> And it seems the 7700k, Xeon E3 1200 and Xeon E3 1500 all have the same bus speed; 8 GT/s DMI3. Don't know about Ryzen.


I've never heard of 'Front Side Bus'. I'm going to have to look into that.


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## Symfoniq (Apr 18, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> I've never heard of 'Front Side Bus'. I'm going to have to look into that.



The front-side bus is no longer used on most modern CPUs.


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## SBK (Apr 18, 2017)

amd ryzen cpus are new and looking powerful in affordable price


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## Phryq (Apr 18, 2017)

Maybe I'm confused,

https://ark.intel.com/products/97129/Intel-Core-i7-7700K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_50-GHz

There's a row "bus speed". If you click the question mark, it mentions the FSB being one of the buses.

Which buses connect the CPU with Ram, PCIe, and disks? That should still be the number 1 factor for us, yes? Maybe scripting-heavy libraries will need more clock speed as well.


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## Symfoniq (Apr 18, 2017)

Phryq said:


> Maybe I'm confused,
> 
> https://ark.intel.com/products/97129/Intel-Core-i7-7700K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_50-GHz
> 
> ...



The bus in that chart is the DMI bus that handles communication between the northbridge and southbridge.

Historically, when people talked about the importance of the front-side bus speed, it was usually in the context of the speed at which the CPU could access RAM, because the memory controller was on the northbridge, which the CPU accessed via the front-side bus.

On most of today's CPUs relevant to this discussion, the northbridge (including the memory controller) is actually on the CPU itself, rather than being a separate component on the motherboard, so the CPU doesn't use a front-side bus to communicate with the memory controller.

As a result, the bus speed data on the chart you linked to isn't especially useful in determining whether that CPU is faster or slower than another in the areas we are most likely to care about for audio production (IPC and memory latency).

As for storage, it is increasingly moving to the PCIe bus, which is more than capable of handling today's fastest NAND memory.


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## JohnG (Apr 18, 2017)

Symfoniq said:


> As for storage, it is increasingly moving to the PCIe bus, which is more than capable of handling today's fastest NAND memory.



true -- speaking of which, what PCIe card are people finding good for attaching SSDs?


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## Phryq (Apr 18, 2017)

Ok. So rather than FSB there's a PCIe Bus goes straight to the CPU, though most M.2 drives will go through the South Bridge. So if I have 3 M.2 drives reading samples (not ram-buffered / purged) will they bottleneck in the South Bridge?

And the PCIe bus will basically never bottleneck? Or maybe I should try one drive going through the PCIe bus and another going through the South Bridge, to 'spread the load'?



JohnG said:


> true -- speaking of which, what PCIe card are people finding good for attaching SSDs?



As far as I know, Samsung 960 Pro is the fastest for random and continuous reads. I plan to get an Evo, slightly cheaper and almost as fast.


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## Daniel Petras (May 10, 2017)

Does anyone have experience with ADATA SSDs? I'm looking to get 2 of these:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ADATA-Ultima...678269836?_trkparms=5373:0|5374:Featured#rwid


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## creativeforge (May 10, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> Does anyone have experience with ADATA SSDs? I'm looking to get 2 of these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ADATA-Ultimate-SU800-512GB-3D-NAND-2-5-Inch-SATA-III-Internal-Solid-State-Drive-/201678269836?_trkparms=5373:0|5374:Featured#rwid



I would suggest starting a new thread with your question, as it won't get lost in this conversation, and will appear in the Recent posts too, drawing more attention.



Andre


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## Daniel Petras (May 10, 2017)

Well I just bought them along with the rest of the parts. 

My final build is (in CAD dollars including all tax and extra fees):

CPU -- i7 7700k -- $518.65 (regret not buying the i7 6700k when it was on sale a couple weeks ago)
MB -- ASUS Prime Z270-A -- $238.18
Case -- Fractal Define R5 -- $166.99 (it was a better price before and then it just jumped up a bit)
PSU -- EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G3 80 Plus Gold 650W Full Modular -- $135.59
RAM -- G.SKILL Aegis 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2133 -- $289.26 (this was a sale, but there were lower sales after)
Cooler -- Noctua NH-U12P -- $56.44 (nice sale for this)
Monitor x 2 -- BenQ GW2470H 23.8 Inch -- $366.66 (wanted bigger, but these were reasonably priced)
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/r.html?C=2JG4V7T7UJ2XJ&K=A1E49QBXYH59LE&R=11XHDUFZSYXYK&T=C&U=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.ca%2Fdp%2FB013GERDME%2Fref%3Dpe_3034960_236394800_TE_dp_i1&A=LMPVXX341TJHEDUAGGMBTYGP9FOA&H=AHFW4QOXEAWQLVNLZO5YRY5MNCOA&ref_=pe_3034960_236394800_TE_dp_i1SSDs x 2 -- ADATA Ultimate SU800 512GB -- $361.58 
Keyboard --Logitech Touch Plus Wireless Keyboard (K400) -- $39.25 (on sale)

Total: $2172.60 CAD

*http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11400.m1842.l5919/7?euid=05919656a816441290a98eb3964895ed&bu=44324560738&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.ca%2Fulk%2Fvod%3Ftransid%3D1523286254010%26itemid%3D201678269836%26qu%3D1&sojTags=bu=bu*


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