# Next hardware synth?



## StillLife (Nov 5, 2022)

Hi,

I have a small home studio where I like to combine some hardware instruments with VI’s. For the hardware I like to buy quality, instruments that will last me years and years (or: my lifetime). For synths, I now have a Polybrute and a Minilogue xd. Both are great, and inspirational, and relatively easy to program. Still, one yearns for yet another, different sound source… Here is my list of synths I consider to complete the synth trio (I don’t think I have room for more than 3 hardware synths) and my reasons to buy them or not. All have to at least tick the following boxes: knob per function (the more immediate, the better), mono and/or paraphonic. What do you think? Any arguments I missed?

1. Moog
Because its Moog, and you can’t seem to get that sound elsewhere. Also: holds value very well, so easy to sell when they do not bring me the joy I had hoped for. I have three contenders: 
- Subsequent 37. Seems perfect, ticks the boxes and has presets. Also small enough to fit in the studio. However, might be a bit less immediate than… 
- The Grandmother. Seems an inspirational synth and one that begs to be experimented. Also: I do not have a synth with patch cables yet… Still, no presets… I never had a synth without presets… and if I am considering the Grandmother than why not…
- The Matriarch. Played one in store. Lovely sound, very immediate indeed. Still, double the price of the Grandmother, and again, no presets, which fears me as well as intrigues me: how would such an instrument fit in my workflow?

2. Sequential
Because of…
- the Pro 3. Played one in store. Very nice distortion and tuned feedback. Deep sequencer, seems easy to program, though a bit less immediate than the Matriarch maybe. Presets! But, I am not sure about how it sounded and I am actually not a big fan of extra digital oscillator. I already have one in the minilogue and do not use it that often. Also, I’d like the special edition, which is pretty expensive, but then again, so is the Matriarch.

3. Boutique, smaller brands.
Because it might be inspirational to have something unique in my studio. Thinking about..
- erica synths syntrx 2. Sounds lovely, but might be a bit too deep for me, I fear I will feel lost soon, and then No Presets is a big con. And we can go even more boutique…
- Majella audio Implexus. Looks great, sounds very good, from what I hear on youtube, and I like the rhythmic focus. But no presets and no keys.

4. Not yet 
Maybe I should wait, there could be a better synth on the horizon? In the meantime, with my polybrute and minilogue there should be few sounds I cannot make. Still, the immediacy of a true mono / paraphonic synth might spark new ideas and I do have room for one more…


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Nov 5, 2022)

Have you played the Hydrasynth yet?


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## StillLife (Nov 5, 2022)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Have you played the Hydrasynth yet?


A little bit. It does allure to me! But I wonder: maybe I’ve got its possibilities already covered with the Polybrute. And it is not a mono/para synth, and not knob per function.


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 5, 2022)

I'd look at something other than analog if the sole reason is a sound source/timbre that will differ from what you already have. Look into FM, additive or wave table synths. These will give you a really different flavor over the analogs you mentioned.


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 5, 2022)

Maybe you’ve already looked at the following to get to your list, in which case ignore my post!

Consider a Studio Electronics SE-3X instead of the Pro3 (since you have keybeds already) - it even has more filters. Or a Motas 6. Both seem exceptional as mono synths. And more interesting, to me, than a stodgy Matriarch. Even a Leipzig v3 seems more interesting. But Moog has never been a sound I crave to have.

A Waldorf M could be interesting, or a Super6 for crispy or clean.

Alternatively, add a Digitone for FM and sequencing (it leads to different results than using only a DAW). I went this route. It also pairs incredibly well with a mono synth down the road, as well as with a DAW via Overbridge. Also has 2 independent inputs.

Of the ones you listed, I’d personally go for the Pro3 SE.


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## rgames (Nov 5, 2022)

I think it comes down to flexibility. 

Pro3 provided a wider range of sounds than the Moogs but Subsequent 37 gets you part of the way there. Matriarch sounds phenomenal but is limited in what it can do.

Another consideration is quality of the hardware - I vastly prefer Sequential hardware (i.e. keybed, knobs, etc). It just feels more premium and has some increased inspirational value in that regard. The Subsequent37 is probably the biggest disappointment there.

If you're thinking sound palette then I'd say the Subsequent37 is the hardest to reproduce in software.


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## Alex Temple (Nov 8, 2022)

I have the Matriarch and think it is an awesome, deeply inspiring synth. It's hard to make it sound bad, and the sound you get from overloading the mixer is so satisfying in a way I haven't been able to replicate on my other hardware or software synths. That being said, while I went pretty wild with it for the first year or so that I had it, I now find myself falling into the trap of having patched it in a way that works _so well_ for bass lines or mid-register leads (depending on ADSR/filter position) that I am actually reluctant to change the patching on it at all. Even if I painstakingly save "preset" pictures of this setup, there's no guarantee I'll be able to entirely find my way back... and I use this patch all the time. I've heard similar stories of other folks with their MS-20s and the like.


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## StillLife (Nov 8, 2022)

Alex Temple said:


> I have the Matriarch and think it is an awesome, deeply inspiring synth. It's hard to make it sound bad, and the sound you get from overloading the mixer is so satisfying in a way I haven't been able to replicate on my other hardware or software synths. That being said, while I went pretty wild with it for the first year or so that I had it, I now find myself falling into the trap of having patched it in a way that works _so well_ for bass lines or mid-register leads (depending on ADSR/filter position) that I am actually reluctant to change the patching on it at all. Even if I painstakingly save "preset" pictures of this setup, there's no guarantee I'll be able to entirely find my way back... and I use this patch all the time. I've heard similar stories of other folks with their MS-20s and the like.


Thank you for this! I have thought about this myself, that semimodular synth without presets might lead you to experiment less once you've found a sound you like very much. However, I have never seen anyone mention this, so I began to think I was wrong. I guess the Matriarch is off the list, then. Beautiful, but too expensive for what it will bring me, I fear.





I find myself drifting mainly between Subsequent 37 and Pro3 now. I saw a used Subsequent 37 for 750 euro's on the Dutch Marktplaats, but I figure it is a scam. The add has been reposted three times now, under different names, and the seller won't sell via Marktplaats pay-links but insists on selling via a weblink. Of course, should have known it was too good to be true when I saw the price...

Edit: I don't know how this VSL add ended up in my reply... And I don't know how to remove it... Sorry!


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## PhilA (Nov 8, 2022)

Whilst the HydraSynth isn’t knob per function its UI is so well thought out that I don’t miss it at all. It will certainly add a huge amount to your sonic pallet and oh Poly aftertouch is so great.
One you haven’t mentioned is the Sequential Take 5 it’s a fantastic and flexibly little beast 👍🏻


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## PerryD (Nov 8, 2022)

I have a Hydrasynth Deluxe and a Prophet 6 Desktop. They compliment each other well.


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## StillLife (Nov 8, 2022)

PhilA said:


> Whilst the HydraSynth isn’t knob per function its UI is so well thought out that I don’t miss it at all. It will certainly add a huge amount to your sonic pallet and oh Poly aftertouch is so great.
> One you haven’t mentioned is the Sequential Take 5 it’s a fantastic and flexibly little beast 👍🏻


Will the Hydrasynth really add much to a Polybrute?


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 8, 2022)

StillLife said:


> Will the Hydrasynth really add much to a Polybrute?


Totally different synths with different synthesis methods and voices/voicing, so it could, if someone liked it. Similar to adding a Digitone, for example.


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## Pier (Nov 8, 2022)

StillLife said:


> maybe I’ve got its possibilities already covered with the Polybrute


The Hydra is nothing like the Polybrute.

It's more like a digital synth with crazy waveform warping options. In fact I've wished someone made something similar in plugin format.



IIRC they keyboard version also has polyphonic aftertouch which is amazing.


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## PhilA (Nov 8, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Totally different synths with different synthesis methods and voices/voicing, so it could, if someone liked it. Similar to adding a Digitone, for example.


Exactly 👍🏻


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## Minko (Nov 8, 2022)

I want to plus one for a hydrasynth (with keys), it's fun to play with the polytouch keyboard. Could be an add on as a input keyboard also. 

I think it is an inspiring piece of gear. But so is the Moog stuff.

And you can do a lot with VST's as well.

In the end it's just a tool.


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## Mindbullets (Nov 15, 2022)

Pier said:


> IIRC they keyboard version also has polyphonic aftertouch which is amazing.


It does, and it is! Just got my Explorer last weekend. The VST control capabilities are pretty neat, and it's arguably worth the $600 for that alone. I primarily bought it for a compact MIDI controller with scribble strips and poly AT keys, but I can't pry myself away from the synth long enough to get it programmed yet. It's too damn fun to play on its own. This thing is wild.

The key action is better than I expected, poly AT works well, too. More info on the VST control:


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## Pier (Nov 15, 2022)

Mindbullets said:


> It does, and it is! Just got my Explorer last weekend. The VST control capabilities are pretty neat, and it's arguably worth the $600 for that alone. I primarily bought it for a compact MIDI controller with scribble strips and poly AT keys, but I can't pry myself away from the synth long enough to get it programmed yet. It's too damn fun to play on its own. This thing is wild.
> 
> The key action is better than I expected, poly AT works well, too. More info on the VST control:



Oh that's cool!

I didn't expect the Explorer to have poly AT.


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## pmountford (Nov 15, 2022)

Each to their own but the Hydrasynth is always the last synth to turn on (although there's no denying that the HS Explorer has got be one of the best values synths currently) - I'm sure I will one day get to grips with it but the other synths like the Polybrute/Pro3/Grandmother/Summit cry out for attention first. I'm sure the HS is great but if I want instant inspiration and hands on fun then its Polybrute with the Pro3 and Grandmother to add a little Moog grit/warmth/depth (which I never quite experienced when I had the Sub37). The Matriarch I'm sure is a fantastic step up from the GM but as you've pointed out there's quite a price hike. BTW another reason I too initially chose the Sub37 over the GM was the patch saving, but sometimes you just can't beat getting your hands dirty and can actually be far more inspirational because it doesn't have patches. You really do need to roll up your sleeves and the GM is not overly complex to help this. 

So if I just wanted to keep one synth I've got here to complement the Polybrute I'd go for the Pro3.

But as I always say it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, if the synth doesn't talk to you then there's no amount of anyone telling you what to choose. Sorry, I hate to say it but the only way is to try and live with whatever choice you make for a few days/weeks!


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Nov 15, 2022)

I really liked the Pro-One and the Pro 2 when I had them. I wouldn't say no to a 3 if one came my way! Great synths.


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## gsilbers (Nov 15, 2022)

I had plenty of synth. Each had its magic but ended up with something a lot more simple and easy to use. I’ll list everything and give my opinion.


Moog sub37: it’s no kidding about the sound that’s just cannot be done with software.
It just has “something”. Just amazing sound. 
But the problem is that it’s duophonic and to me that was too much of an issue for one and only synth. 
The hidden gem is the looping envelopes. Very under appreciated in the film score world. 

Prophet rev2: I couldn’t understand the appeal on this one. It sounded stale and the u-he pro5 got me almost there but with plenty of presets and instances. 
Also the programming is terrible. Dual layer, every knob looks the same. 

Take5: not bad but also too expensive for what it is. And the sound also wasn’t anything special. But better then a the rev2


Matrixbrure: i wanted to like this one but the sound wasn’t as “brute” as I wanted. 
For a mono synth it’s a lot of knobs so that’s cool but nothing sounded amazing. Now, for the polybrute I think it might be more on the ballpark that I’d get. Seems the balls for analog might be better on the polybrute than the matrix. Although for mono/duo the sub37 is better. If there was a sub37 that’s 4 voice paraphonic then that be the perfect synth. 

Virus Ti: a secret weapon. Amazing sound. Easy integration (not anymore ).
Tons of 3rd part patches. 
I still keep mine. 

notation peak: this one was a surprise. I wanted some Edm synth but turned out this is amazing for ambient and pads and great for that style of scoring that’s like indie documentary, If u know what I mean. Lo fi but tons of character. Using it with the hologram pedal is the cream of the cream.
At the end the sound was somewhat close to the TI and I love using the plugin.


Deep minds: not bad. But also meh. For the price Is good. Mostly the bad vibes from behringer was a no go for me. 

Arp2500 (behringer) : I realized I hate patch cables and tweaking stuff when actually working with music. 

Korg xd: this is the one i ended up with after all of the above. Crazy to admit it. I needed an analog synth for analog synth sounds and this to me was the best Cross section of price and sound. Plus it was the 3rd oscilator that can be changed to any type of synth. So that gave me what I wanted from the PRO3 at half the price.
The parameters are recordable and can be sequenced which helps a lot since it only has 1 lfo. 
But it’s easy fun and sounds good. 

To me the perfect synth would be a 4 voice paraphonic version of the sub37. 
And in general I was surpised how good u-he synths compared to most synth. 
I got a knob controller and added specific midi cc to change parameters in real-time for Uhe synths and that’s also such a great 
Deal when doing scores.


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## derschoenekarsten (Nov 15, 2022)

FWIW, I think the Bass Station II is still one of the dopest mono synths out there. It's cheap-ish, sounds good enough, has presets, is close enough to knob per function, and blends well. I usually run it through a super fucked up EBS ValveDrive and it sounds 10x more expensive.

Having said that, I've been using the Matriarch for ≈ 1.5 years now and it slams. It's the only synth that's permanently on my desk. I end up using it for rather simple patches often, but having those sound good from the get go is a great quality by itself IMO. Definitely don't feel stuck with "that one patch". Using it as an outboard processor also greatly increases utility.

If I was in the situation that OP describes in the initial post (and if money isn't a factor), I'd just get the synth I feel the most "emotionally drawn" to. There'd be one I really want, and the others that I'm eyeing in order to not make a rash decision.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Nov 15, 2022)

Fantastic bang for the buck with the BS2, for sure. The AFX Station version is very sexy, IMHO.


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## Pier (Nov 15, 2022)

Anyone tried the Behringer Poly D?

I'm considering getting one for my nephew for Xmas as his first synth.


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## styphonthal (Nov 15, 2022)

Pier said:


> Anyone tried the Behringer Poly D?
> 
> I'm considering getting one for my nephew for Xmas as his first synth.


Its paraphonic so it can be a little frustrating if you aren't familar with it.


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## Pier (Nov 15, 2022)

styphonthal said:


> Its paraphonic so it can be a little frustrating if you aren't familar with it.


Damn I thought it was polyphonic. I mean it's right in the name!

Oh well. I'm also looking at the Deep Mind 6 and the Minilogue.


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## sostenuto (Nov 15, 2022)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Fantastic bang for the buck with the BS2, for sure. The AFX Station version is very sexy, IMHO.


First serious hardware synth venture. Watched some YouTube vids re. AFX Station _ concerned with incredibly heavy cranking on '*Frequency*' Knob ( upper right corner ). 
Not likely to purchase used instrument, but is this typical for routine daily_ studio_ usage ??


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## Pier (Nov 15, 2022)

I think I will get my nephew the Hydrasynth Explorer. Affordable. Awesome sound. Super powerful.


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## sostenuto (Nov 15, 2022)

Pier said:


> I think I will get my nephew the Hydrasynth Explorer. Affordable. Awesome sound. Super powerful.


Similar price point to AFX Station. Trust your judgement here _ nephew likely more 'in touch' than I.
Will refocus and consider.


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 15, 2022)

Pier said:


> I think I will get my nephew the Hydrasynth Explorer. Affordable. Awesome sound. Super powerful.


Just a random different take: iPad (basic) + Keystep/ or 37 + apps = portable studio.

I bought a friend the XD when it was only $450 or so (good timing).


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 15, 2022)

gsilbers said:


> Virus Ti: a secret weapon. Amazing sound. Easy integration (not anymore ).
> Tons of 3rd part patches.
> I still keep mine.


As far as I know, there's a software solution that accounts for ~95% of the sound (can't duplicate the A/D conversion etc. but you could probably find additional plugins that get closer) but it's not exactly on the up and up because it uses the actual ROM.


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## utopia (Nov 15, 2022)

It's probably more of a niche thing but my God do I love my Deckard's Dream.


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## pmountford (Nov 16, 2022)

Pier said:


> I think I will get my nephew the Hydrasynth Explorer. Affordable. Awesome sound. Super powerful.


Good choice. Incredible value for money although possibly not the most obvious to learn about synthesis on.


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## gsilbers (Nov 16, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> As far as I know, there's a software solution that accounts for ~95% of the sound (can't duplicate the A/D conversion etc. but you could probably find additional plugins that get closer) but it's not exactly on the up and up because it uses the actual ROM.


yeah, the skibo plugin seem to be good but its only for windows :/

I havent checked the software vs hardware. I do remember trying to use the TI as an audio interface to record mics and the quality was terrible. 

The desktop version with many knobs is also so cool to change sounds and get inspiration.


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 16, 2022)

gsilbers said:


> yeah, the skibo plugin seem to be good but its only for windows :/
> 
> I havent checked the software vs hardware. I do remember trying to use the TI as an audio interface to record mics and the quality was terrible.
> 
> The desktop version with many knobs is also so cool to change sounds and get inspiration.


Not sure what skibo is (I was talking about the DSP56300 emulator that runs on Windows, Mac, and, I think, Linux?). Hardware is definitely more interactive, regardless. You could always use your Virus as a hardware controller for the software 😅


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## sostenuto (Nov 16, 2022)

Searched DSP56300_ maybe watch for future vst release ? No sense yet of best hardware for initial experience. Sometimes eBay has worthwhile options, with inexpensive warranty purchase ??
Never know when one has been hammered for long time with Live performance usage.

ASM - Hydrasynth Explorer remains inf interest _ at least until someting else arises ... 🤪


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## gsilbers (Nov 16, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Not sure what skibo is (I was talking about the DSP56300 emulator that runs on Windows, Mac, and, I think, Linux?). Hardware is definitely more interactive, regardless. You could always use your Virus as a hardware controller for the software 😅


Ah yes the emulator. From what I understood, only the virus c can be emulated but not the TI. Forgot if it was a code/chip issue or legal one. Still cool. There’s other digital synths as well that used the same chip. 

The skihbo is a regular vst but got the go ahead from access to use onboard wavetables and other stuff to make it sound closer so patches are now interchangeable. For some reason the sound wasn’t exactly the same as my ti when I tired it but overall good. Windows only though. I didn’t test it too extensively. 

and yes, I was using the desktop version to control diva and repro


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## styphonthal (Nov 16, 2022)

Pier said:


> Damn I thought it was polyphonic. I mean it's right in the name!
> 
> Oh well. I'm also looking at the Deep Mind 6 and the Minilogue.


I think the minilogue would make a great first synth. Its almost knob per function, and laid out in a sensible fashion. The deep mind 6 has a lot more menus, but does have more effects, more Juno sound if that is what you are going for.


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## Pier (Nov 16, 2022)

styphonthal said:


> I think the minilogue would make a great first synth. Its almost knob per function, and laid out in a sensible fashion. The deep mind 6 has a lot more menus, but does have more effects, more Juno sound if that is what you are going for.


It's not for me but my 19 year old nephew 

The Hydra seems like a better choice. It's not analog but sounds great and will keep him occupied for years.


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## sostenuto (Nov 17, 2022)

Pier said:


> It's not for me but my 19 year old nephew
> 
> The Hydra seems like a better choice. It's not analog but sounds great and will keep him occupied for years.


Jumping far upscale $$ _ before choosing _ what are upper-tier 88-key options, which also offer classic hardware synth capabilities _ as well as excellent keybeds.

One of current Reaper MIDI Keyboards is Roland KR-577, perhaps to be replaced /updated.


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## Pier (Nov 17, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Jumping far upscale $$ _ before choosing _ what are upper-tier 88-key options, which also offer classic hardware synth capabilities _ as well as excellent keybeds.
> 
> One of current Reaper MIDI Keyboards is Roland KR-577, perhaps to be replaced /updated.


He's been playing with VSTs for a couple of years now but wants to try hardware for a more hands-on approach.


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## sostenuto (Nov 17, 2022)

Pier said:


> He's been playing with VSTs for a couple of years now but wants to try hardware for a more hands-on approach.





Pier said:


> He's been playing with VSTs for a couple of years now but wants to try hardware for a more hands-on approach.


Understand, and likely best approach here, just coming from longer period with VSTi(s).
Even so, would a Roland JUNO-DS88 be a top choice in 2022 ??


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## SupremeFist (Nov 17, 2022)

Pier said:


> He's been playing with VSTs for a couple of years now but wants to try hardware for a more hands-on approach.


Possibly out of your intended gift budget but the Take 5 would be perfect.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 17, 2022)




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## sostenuto (Nov 17, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


>



Knew there was a good way to spend that xtra $ 3-grand !!


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## Crowe (Dec 15, 2022)

I just bought a Sound Canvas 88. I think I'm in love.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 15, 2022)

Crowe said:


> I just bought a Sound Canvas 88. I think I'm in love.


A true classic.


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## spektralisk (Dec 15, 2022)

I wanted to get Pro 3 but I got Hydrasynth Desktop for now. I'm happy  Hydra is a beastie. Pro 3 will join later.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 22, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


>



Sean Costello (aka ValhallaDSP) has been posting some lovely, soft explorations with the T6 (sometimes using a soon-to-be-released Vintage Verb mode) on Gearspace.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 22, 2022)

spektralisk said:


> I wanted to get Pro 3 but I got Hydrasynth Desktop for now. I'm happy  Hydra is a beastie. Pro 3 will join later.


Don't forget to check out the SE-3X. I'd take that in a heartbeat over the Pro3, personally, despite the form factor (I'd just get a small, angled desktop wooden rack).


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## sostenuto (Dec 22, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Don't forget to check out the SE-3X. I'd take that in a heartbeat over the Pro3, personally, despite the form factor (I'd just get a small, angled desktop wooden rack).


When up to this $$ level, looking at Sequential Prophet X from 8Dio. No clue comparing to SE-3X, other than obvious keyboard capability. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 22, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> When up to this $$ level, looking at Sequential Prophet X from 8Dio. No clue comparing to SE-3X, other than obvious keyboard capability. 🤷🏻‍♂️


SE-3X is a paraphonic monosynth, like the Pro3. It has no keybed - it's a rack module. It has multiple filters (more than the Pro3), presets, etc. like the Pro3 - but not the arpeggiator. However, to me, it sounds so much beefier and beautiful that, if I had the money, I could forgo a few features for the sound. Oh, the sound!


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## sostenuto (Dec 22, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> SE-3X is a paraphonic monosynth, like the Pro3. It has no keybed - it's a rack module. It has multiple filters (more than the Pro3), presets, etc. like the Pro3 - but not the arpeggiator. However, to me, it sounds so much beefier and beautiful that, if I had the money, I could forgo a few features for the sound. Oh, the sound!


Takes far more synth chops than available here ! Paraphonic Mono Synth vs Analog Poly Synth .... and the rabbit hole deepens. Could drive SE-3X with existing KK S49, or Axiom Pro61, and let near-term need for replacement MIDI Keyboard Controller wait. Thank-fully, no time pressure, just more coveting.
Trignon-6 notably more $$.


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## Crowe (Dec 22, 2022)

I personally really don't understand the principle behind paying 3000,- for a monophonic (or even paraphonic) synthesizer these days. The SE-02 is around 450 and kicks butt. The Toriaz AS-1 costs about the same for a Pro One with Patch Memory. You could then get a Peak, or even a Summit or Matrixbrute next to one and _have money left over._

I'm sure that if you have that kind of cash the SE-X3 is a really nice synth but I really cannot justify something like that to myself.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 22, 2022)

Crowe said:


> I personally really don't understand the principle behind paying 3000,- for a monophonic (or even paraphonic) synthesizer these days. The SE-02 is around 450 and kicks butt. The Toriaz AS-1 costs about the same for a Pro One with Patch Memory. You could then get a Peak, or even a Summit or Matrixbrute next to one and _have money left over._
> 
> I'm sure that if you have that kind of cash the SE-X3 is a really nice synth but I really cannot justify something like that to myself.


I have an SE-02 + ExtBox (my first hardware synth as of 4 years ago). That's why I want the much better sounding SE-3X! Plus it has the different filters. Truly diminishing returns on investment, like all audio gear after a certain threshold of $$.

Toriaz has a terrible UX to me. Peak has an utterly boring sound to my ears. No space for a Summit or Matrixbrute (and don't like the sound of either).

The only other hardware synth of interest to me right now is the Trigon6 - but no module yet. However, I currently have no way to connect it to my audio interface, as I only have 1 mono input remaining. All that said, I don't expect to have the cash for any of them - I'm looking maybe at adding a Deco v2 or a Digiface USB as my one hardware purchase in 2023 (in addition to the prepaid Midronome to replace my USAMO).


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## sostenuto (Dec 27, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I have an SE-02 + ExtBox (my first hardware synth as of 4 years ago). That's why I want the much better sounding SE-3X! Plus it has the different filters. Truly diminishing returns on investment, like all audio gear after a certain threshold of $$.
> 
> Toriaz has a terrible UX to me. Peak has an utterly boring sound to my ears. No space for a Summit or Matrixbrute (and don't like the sound of either).
> 
> The only other hardware synth of interest to me right now is the Trigon6 - but no module yet. However, I currently have no way to connect it to my audio interface, as I only have 1 mono input remaining. All that said, I don't expect to have the cash for any of them - I'm looking maybe at adding a Deco v2 or a Digiface USB as my one hardware purchase in 2023 (in addition to the prepaid Midronome to replace my USAMO).


Understand personal need to sort issues .... but only get so far without access to playable instruments.

If narrowing down to Trygon 6 versus Sequential Prophet X .... at same cost .... will help to see preference, and related reasons.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 27, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> If narrowing down to Trygon 6 versus Sequential Prophet X .... at same cost .... will help to see preference, and related reasons.


A Trigon 6 is a 3 VCO synth with a ladderfilter. So an analog subtractive synth. 

A Prophet X is a sample based digital synth. Basically it is an 8Dio sample collection-in-a-synth with Dave Smith architecturally involved. Pretty cool sounding stuff, very sound design-y. But still, basically just a high-end rompler *). I recommend the Sonic State review for a good overview. I nearly bought one at launch 

Two entirely different concepts. Choice shouldn’t be hard once you decide which approach you prefer in a hardware machine meant to inspire you to write good music / meant to have fun with.

Do you want to tweak subtractive patches? Or sample based ones?

*) edit: this is hyperbole; the oscillator is digital and loads (8Dio) multisamples from a 255Gb internal HD. The actual synth can act as a proper subtractive synth, including sample import + great modmatrix. Just figured I should mention this.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 27, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> A Trigon 6 is a 3 VCO synth with a ladderfilter. So an analog subtractive synth.
> 
> A Prophet X is a sample based digital synth. Basically it is an 8Dio sample collection-in-a-synth with Dave Smith architecturally involved. Pretty cool sounding stuff, very sound design-y. But still, basically just a high-end rompler. I recommend the Sonic State review for a good overview. I nearly bought one at launch
> 
> ...


Just used a Trigon6 in a shop for 20minutes. It's really nice. I could see myself having one some day (desktop). I don't much care about the classic Minimoog, but modern interpretations are really nice, and the T6 is something special.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 27, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Just used a Trigon6 in a shop for 20minutes. It's really nice. I could see myself having one some day (desktop). I don't much care about the classic Minimoog, but modern interpretations are really nice, and the T6 is something special.


Haven’t tried it yet. My not-very-well-researched notion was this is a bit like a Memorymoog? Demos sound great.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 27, 2022)

@sostenuto


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 27, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Haven’t tried it yet. My not-very-well-researched notion was this is a bit like a Memorymoog? Demos sound great.


Nice synth, but I have a MM+ and it's much, much more dangerous than the Trigon.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 27, 2022)

I’m afraid I am not allowed to buy any more hardware synths  

I have encountered many synths in my life, but weirdly (or maybe actually not) I have never been near a Memorymoog Ned. I doubt how many were actually ever around in these parts.

@sostenuto The Prophet X does have a rather nice VCF, a Dave Rossum design apparently. Quite the legend (of Ensoniq fame).


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 27, 2022)

The Memorymoog is amazing, but like a wild horse, or a tough dog, it needs a sure hand, especially with the gain-staging. It always wants to be the king of the party! I tried to make sweet music with it, but...


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## Macrawn (Dec 27, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> A Trigon 6 is a 3 VCO synth with a ladderfilter. So an analog subtractive synth.
> 
> A Prophet X is a sample based digital synth. Basically it is an 8Dio sample collection-in-a-synth with Dave Smith architecturally involved. Pretty cool sounding stuff, very sound design-y. But still, basically just a high-end rompler *). I recommend the Sonic State review for a good overview. I nearly bought one at launch
> 
> ...


I'd like to know more your take on it. It has analog filters but the osc are digital. It has 8 Dio samples, but the appeal of it is running them along side or through the synth engine. To be able to use the sample engine with the synth engine like Soundpaint is sorta the appeal to me. Mixing those together. Just wish the osc were analog. It's a synth I've been coveting and on a list of something I want to get at some point but might not ever get one.


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## sostenuto (Dec 27, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I’m afraid I am not allowed to buy any more hardware synths
> 
> I have encountered many synths in my life, but weirdly (or maybe actually not) I have never been near a Memorymoog Ned. I doubt how many were actually ever around in these parts.
> 
> @sostenuto The Prophet X does have a rather nice VCF, a Dave Rossum design apparently. Quite the legend (of Ensoniq fame).


Sincere thanks guys !! Even with major differences, doubt either 'new' Sequential could be anything but stimulating, and challenging for years ahead.
Totally new experience, apart from ongoing work with (2) Win11 Pro /Desktop PC DAW(s).
Leaning to T6, and trying hard to push aside so many other quality options.

One, final inquiry PLZ ! : Oberheim OB-X8 ?? +$1,500. vs T6. What are notable benefits to consider for this added cost ?


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## doctoremmet (Dec 27, 2022)

Macrawn said:


> I'd like to know more your take on it. It has analog filters but the osc are digital. It has 8 Dio samples, but the appeal of it is running them along side or through the synth engine. To be able to use the sample engine with the synth engine like Soundpaint is sorta the appeal to me. Mixing those together. Just wish the osc were analog. It's a synth I've been coveting and on a list of something I want to get at some point but might not ever get one.


Well, it is almost like a high-end keyboard version of Soundpaint in a way. Now, the filter is the main attraction of the Prophet X I feel. Lovely resonant VCF, all based on me listening to YT demos. 

Downside: 16 note polyphony which is typically cut in half if you want the samples played back in stereo, plus as nice as the filter sounds… it is not a multimode filter, merely a low pass.

So at the end of the day…. it has its limitations. BUT… for me personally…. I LOVE limitations and weird design limits etc. It kind of makes a synth fun to work with. I also have tons of subtractive and very digital synths already. But nothing quite like the X. So I was quite taken by the concept, because I felt it was a fresh take.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 27, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> What are notable benefits to consider for this added cost ?


To me, also looking at specs and actual components…. as much as I LOVE Oberheim…. I don’t see a true justification for the price jump. Other than “premium brand” type of stuff.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 27, 2022)

Macrawn said:


> It's a synth I've been coveting and on a list of something I want to get at some point but might not ever get one.


Same


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 27, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Sincere thanks guys !! Even with major differences, doubt either 'new' Sequential could be anything but stimulating, and challenging for years ahead.
> Totally new experience, apart from ongoing work with (2) Win11 Pro /Desktop PC DAW(s).
> Leaning to T6, and trying hard to push aside so many other quality options.
> 
> One, final inquiry PLZ ! : Oberheim OB-X8 ?? +$1,500. vs T6. What are notable benefits to consider for this added cost ?


Do you love the sound of the OB-8, OB-X and OB-Xa and always wanted one but never could afford the vintage and the upkeep? Well, now you can get a new one of each all in one box. That’s the X8.

The T6 is a modern take on a memorymoog with a modern sound and modern features. It can be gnarly or it can be beautiful. I love it more than the P6 I’d played. It’d definitely compliment my OB-6.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 27, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> never could afford the vintage and the upkeep


Or even if you could, you hate the damn thing breaking all the time, and you feel you have spent your lifetime share of soldering? Get the X8 😂


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## alcorey (Dec 27, 2022)

Man that X8 sure is one sweet synth  - gotta go look for stuff to sell!


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## Macrawn (Dec 27, 2022)

I've got a polybrute as well. I think a pro3 would be good


sostenuto said:


> Sincere thanks guys !! Even with major differences, doubt either 'new' Sequential could be anything but stimulating, and challenging for years ahead.
> Totally new experience, apart from ongoing work with (2) Win11 Pro /Desktop PC DAW(s).
> Leaning to T6, and trying hard to push aside so many other quality options.
> 
> One, final inquiry PLZ ! : Oberheim OB-X8 ?? +$1,500. vs T6. What are notable benefits to consider for this added cost ?


I'd really like an OB-X8 but I think the Behringer clone that is coming out this year (2023 at least I hope. It's production ready) really sounds great and will probably come in at around $2000 or less. Makes getting both a possibility


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## Pier (Dec 27, 2022)

I wanna get the Syntrx II by EricaSynths at some point. Hopefully some local vendor will import it otherwise I might end up paying like 50% in import fees.











SYNTRX II


Based on lessons learned from the SYNTRX, we decided to create an instrument that would integrate even deeper into contemporary electronic and experimental music setups and cover sonic territory from daunting drones to powerful basslines and glitched noisescapes - the SYNTRX II is a new dark horse …




www.ericasynths.lv


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## sostenuto (Dec 27, 2022)

Pier said:


> I wanna get the Syntrx II by EricaSynths at some point. Hopefully some local vendor will import it otherwise I might end up paying like 50% in import fees.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Syntrx II looks interesting, and cool price point. Waay weak Hardware Synth background, and must stay with top, proven options. 
Latest 1 hr+ vid review of Prophet X was very good; yet feels like T6 may be better match for such limited, current skill set. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Watching eBay OB-X8 deal as well.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 27, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Latest 1 hr+ vid review of Prophet X was very good; yet feels like T6 may be better match for such limited, current skill set.


If you like the digital approach, the Waldorf Iridium could be a cool alternative for the X although a “plain” analog synth may indeed be the best first HW synth.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 27, 2022)

Macrawn said:


> I've got a polybrute as well. I think a pro3 would be good
> 
> I'd really like an OB-X8 but I think the Behringer clone that is coming out this year (2023 at least I hope. It's production ready) really sounds great and will probably come in at around $2000 or less. Makes getting both a possibility


B would have to come out with 3 synths to compare (takes up even more space), and, so far, they announced things years ago and haven't finished anything. YMMV etc etc. I'm sure they'll ship something sometime some year.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 28, 2022)

Pier said:


> I wanna get the Syntrx II by EricaSynths at some point. Hopefully some local vendor will import it otherwise I might end up paying like 50% in import fees.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Me 2.


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## sostenuto (Dec 28, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> If you like the digital approach, the Waldorf Iridium could be a cool alternative for the X although a “plain” analog synth may indeed be the best first HW synth.



Appreciate suggestion and vids ! Sweetwater (_ in U.S._ ) has brand new for ~$2,900. including shipping and State sales tax. Big drop from full advertised $$. Will review and learn.
Expect flood of 'deals' as holidays pass. 
THX Temme !


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## Pier (Dec 31, 2022)

Look what showed up today:







It's not for me though 

It's a late Christmas present for my nephew.

Obviously I will give it a try tonight when we open it!


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## doctoremmet (Dec 31, 2022)

Pier said:


> Look what showed up today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are one hell of a cool uncle Pier ❤️


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## sostenuto (Dec 31, 2022)

Trying to be cool 🧑🏻‍🎄 to self !! 
Assuming so very nice offers will start appearing post holidays .....
Trygon 6 or ??????


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## SupremeFist (Dec 31, 2022)

Pier said:


> Look what showed up today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


World's best uncle!


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## Pier (Jan 1, 2023)

I spent about 1 hour on the DeepMind with my nephew last night and it's awesome.

Sounds great. Loved the oscs and filter. It's very easy to get started and the little LCD screen helps a lot. Using the effects is probably the most cumbersome part but I guess that's what the iPad/desktop editor is for.

The build quality is actually decent and the faders are not terrible. I would have preferred to have a knob for the cutoff but it's not the end of the world and you can always use the modwheel or expr pedal for performing.

We were both surprised how nice the keys felt. My nephew has been studying piano for some years now and plays mostly with hammer style keys.

Of course the architecture is rather simple but as a first analog synth it's really a fantastic option. With the deep modulation options and effects it's really a very powerful little machine.

My only real gripe with it is that the filter doesn't have analog feedback/drive, or that there isn't an analog saturation/distortion. That would have been the cherry on top!


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## IFM (Jan 1, 2023)

@Pier I like the DM12 as well. Reminds me of a cress between Roland and Korg. 

I’m sure this was mentioned but the Summit is an awesome synth and has a beautiful sound.


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## soundmind (Jan 5, 2023)

Thinking about either the Jupiter XM, System 8 or Virus. Thoughts anyone? I know Jim Daneker has all three, would really like to get his take. Would be in addition to a Kronos 2, Hydrasynth (keys), Summit, Iridium among others. Thanks in advance!


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## pmountford (Jan 5, 2023)

soundmind said:


> Thinking about either the Jupiter XM, System 8 or Virus. Thoughts anyone? I know Jim Daneker has all three, would really like to get his take. Would be in addition to a Kronos 2, Hydrasynth (keys), Summit, Iridium among others. Thanks in advance!


I can only share my experience but I didn't get on with the XM. I didn't like the interface although I did like the sound. But I moved on to a Fantom 08 so I feel I still have a Roland sound covered to accompany the Hydrasynth/Summit/Iridium here. I would consider adding the System 8 though, partly on Jim's recommendation. No experience of the Virus.


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## sostenuto (Jan 5, 2023)

Feeling like a yo-yo. My lack of chops; previoulsy had Seq Trigon 6 on top of shortlist.
Summit is possibility. Iridium; big cost jump ! Not clear on strengths versus Summit for extra cost.
Watching /learning ..........


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## vitocorleone123 (Jan 5, 2023)

sostenuto said:


> Feeling like a yo-yo. My lack of c hops; previoulsy had Seq Trigon 6 on top of shortlist.
> Summit is possibility. Iridium; big cost jump ! Not clear on strengths versus Summit for extra cost.
> Watching /learning ..........


Big difference between very digital and very analog.

My vote: analog.

Reason: you have software synths already. Mix it up. Also the user experience is very different.

... if you love how the synth sounds, of course!


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## sostenuto (Jan 6, 2023)

Many good softsynths, but not digital versions of top analog hardware. Time to refocus and revisit. 
Appreciate patient guidance.


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## zimm83 (Jan 6, 2023)

ROLAND Fantom 8 . Incredibly deep.
Updates, model exp, nzyme expansion. 
A monster .
And 2023 updates coming.....


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## sostenuto (Jan 6, 2023)

zimm83 said:


> ROLAND Fantom 8 . Incredibly deep.
> Updates, model exp, nzyme expansion.
> A monster .
> And 2023 updates coming.....


Longtime Roland fan. Roland KR-577 for decade +. Rodgers Church Organist. Will review current offerings, including Fantom 8. Considering Roland Cloud for near term.


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## SupremeFist (Jan 6, 2023)

sostenuto said:


> Longtime Roland fan. Roland KR-577 for decade +. Rodgers Church Organist. Will review current offerings, including Fantom 8. Considering Roland Cloud for near term.


Just get a Sequential Take 5.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 6, 2023)

SupremeFist said:


> Just get a Sequential Take 5.


Careful now. Poor Thom’s list is now SO long, adding ONE more option to it may cause it to implode due to its immense mass, create a black hole in the process and suck up all hardware synths ever made into non-existence.


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## sostenuto (Jan 6, 2023)

SupremeFist said:


> Just get a Sequential Take 5.


One nagging issue. Asking based on existing Axiom Pro 61 & KK S49. 
If not doing live performances, pros /cons of modules versus keyboards ? No space issue here.


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## SupremeFist (Jan 6, 2023)

sostenuto said:


> One nagging issue. Asking based on existing Axiom Pro 61 & KK S49.
> If not doing live performances, pros /cons of modules versus keyboards ? No space issue here.


The pro (or con, depending on your point of view) is that a module version of the Take 5 does not exist.


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## sostenuto (Jan 6, 2023)

doctoremmet said:


> Careful now. Poor Thom’s list is now SO long, adding ONE more option to it may cause it to implode due to its immense mass, create a black hole in the process and suck up all hardware synths ever made into non-existence.


Fortunate to have so many capable options in 2023 !! Location makes new units the practical choice. Even solid warranties not so helpful, given shipping issues. Get the analog point. Mono /poly not yet so clear. Experience with current KR-577 (88), Axiom Pro (61), KK S (49) at least makes usage imitations known.


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## sostenuto (Jan 6, 2023)

SupremeFist said:


> The pro (or con, depending on your point of view) is that a module version of the Take 5 does not exist.


Yes, but Prophet 6 ? 
$2,300. vs $3,500. 🤔

NOT ignoring Take 5. Trying to narrow choices though.


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## SupremeFist (Jan 6, 2023)

sostenuto said:


> Yes, but Prophet 6 ?


I actually prefer the sound and features of the Take 5, quite apart from the large price difference, but that's up to you!


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## sostenuto (Jan 6, 2023)

SupremeFist said:


> I actually prefer the sound and features of the Take 5, quite apart from the large price difference, but that's up to you!


Helpful; makes for less tedious anaylsis (_paralysis_). Cost point very comfortable.
Notably lower than Trigon 6 considered earlier; with wariness based on recent release.


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## SupremeFist (Jan 6, 2023)

sostenuto said:


> Helpful; makes for less tedious anaylsis (_paralysis_). Cost point very comfortable.
> Notably lower than Trigon 6 considered earlier; with wariness based on recent release.


Honestly I think the Take 5 is the perfect "first analogue synth". I'm biased because it's _my_ first analogue synth, but it has been everything I hoped for and more.


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## sostenuto (Jan 6, 2023)

SupremeFist said:


> Honestly I think the Take 5 is the perfect "first analogue synth". I'm biased because it's _my_ first analogue synth, but it has been everything I hoped for and more.


Instills true confidence for current interest. Location here in southwestern Utah results in very high Amazon Prime activity. They have Take 5 at same cost as Sweetwater. 
Would be very comfortable and confident choice. Many thanks !


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## pmountford (Saturday at 2:12 AM)

sostenuto said:


> One nagging issue. Asking based on existing Axiom Pro 61 & KK S49.
> If not doing live performances, pros /cons of modules versus keyboards ? No space issue here.


Totally personal preference if you have the space. i asked the same question a couple of years ago and you have to work it out for yourself. I lean towards having a keyboard attached so I have direct playability of the synth - its the only downside with my Iridium, I wish I had the keyboarded poly aftertouch version. Maybe an Osmose will sort that?


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## sostenuto (Tuesday at 5:58 PM)

SupremeFist said:


> Just get a Sequential Take 5.


Have solid dealer offer for 'new' Take 5 (full warranty).
Was committing to several softsynth analog clones, but cost would reduce Take 5 to net ~ $1k.
Few hours now to choose.  🏓 🏓 
Diva, Hive 50% deals over tonight.


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## KEM (Tuesday at 7:22 PM)

I’ve always sworn I’d never get any hardware but the Moog DFAM is just so cool and I love the sound of it, it’s not terribly expensive either so maybe one day. Also have a soft spot for the Virus but it’s abandonware at this point and wouldn’t even work on my computer, for its price it’s not at all worth it but it’s so iconic


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## sostenuto (Wednesday at 6:18 PM)

Checked Omnisphere 'approved hardware synths' .... Sequential Take 5 not on list. 
Maybe just time to review and add ?? Sooooo ready to add, but not until on list.

○ Dave Smith OB-6
○ Dave Smith Pro 2
○ Dave Smith Prophet 6

Dave Smith OB-6 breaks my b...s budget !


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## AR (Wednesday at 7:10 PM)

I'm waiting for the Behringer Pro 800 and Solina Strings :D


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## sostenuto (Wednesday at 7:19 PM)

$600. in April, 2024, could heal damaged b...s budget  

_.......... but 90 more days !!!!! _⏲️


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