# [Done] Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1



## Darthmorphling (Mar 27, 2013)

Here are the finished pieces for this go around. If you still want to contribute a piece please feel free to do so. Even if it is after today!



It looks like we have enough interest to get the first Vi-Control Collaborative Learning Project rolling.

It seems as if taking a simple melody, and orchestrating it will be the task for the first go-around. Two weeks seemed to be the consensus for the best time frame for completion, so April 21 is the deadline. This is supposed to be a learning experience so please post what you come up with even if you hate it at the end. I am nowhere near being an expert at this, which is not hard to believe once you see the melody, and I realize this may be the only way to get me to complete my first piece :D

The rules are very simple:


Take the melody that is attached to this post and orchestrate it however you see fit. Add embellishments, change the key, improve upon it, make it mellow, hybrid, chamber, epic, whatever...just make it yours.

Once you are done with your piece, upload it to wherever you host your music and post the link here. The deadline is April 21.

Make sure to list all of the libraries you used. If you have a strong background in theory, maybe explain briefly how you approached the piece.

It would be helpful to post the midi files as well so we can see how you approached your CC data. If you don't want to do so it is not a requirement.

Comment on the pieces by the other contributors. When doing so, please be positive, but do not hesitate to provide honest criticism.[/b]

Also, realize that criticism is the only way to get better so take it as a learning tool.

Anyone can contribute, either with a piece, comments, or both.

Most of all, have fun!

Remember the forum's motto is "musicians helping musicians"

Don


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## Lenny13 (Mar 29, 2013)

Since I'm a beginner in orchestration and composition, I'm in. Great idea !


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## Darthmorphling (Mar 29, 2013)

So what kind of format do you think would be the most beneficial? I was thinking of two week sessions. Regardless we can start one after Easter if you are interested!

I would like it if more people thought it would be worthwhile, but even if it's only two that's one more person than just learning on your own.

I changed the name to make it catchier!


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## Resoded (Mar 29, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project.*

As a fellow newbie I think this is interesting. This could be a great way to get my ass into the composing chair and get more music done. 

I think I'd prefer the compositions to be max 2 minutes, to be able to listen to what everyone are doing and keep up with all other scheduled things. I really like the idea of having a specific set of parameters set beforehand, as you mention, limiting it to certain instruments and such. At least that's what I try doing for myself. There are so many choices that it constrains me, I prefer limiting my choices to get creative.

It would be fun if we do something really crazy. Everybody records something with their phone, send it in and then everybody have to manipulate the sounds with whatever tools they have into music. Anything really, just to get the creativity flowing.


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## Darthmorphling (Mar 29, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project.*

So we have a suggestion for using some sort of found sound to morph into some sort of musical composition. Also a max of 2 minutes has been suggested. Thanks Resoded :D 

Any other suggestions, or desired restrictions before we settle on specifics?

Mine would be a simple melody and then attempt to orchestrate.


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## Lenny13 (Apr 1, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project.*



> Mine would be a simple melody and then attempt to orchestrate.



That would be fun to do.

It would be nice to have more forum users involve.


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## Peter Alexander (Apr 1, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project.*

This is already setup in the Member's Composition section.


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 1, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project.*



Peter Alexander @ Mon Apr 01 said:


> This is already setup in the Member's Composition section.



I envisioned something different than just posting up your own pieces though. Don't you think it would be beneficial to have multiple people working on the same thing? This way each person gets to see multiple approaches to the same problem.

Regardless, it doesn't seem to have caught enough interest to make it useful. I will vow to have a piece posted before my spring break is over though.


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## Cashbrook (Apr 1, 2013)

I find this idea pretty appealing actually . Count me in - ready when you are.


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## Mike Marino (Apr 2, 2013)

Cool idea. My schedule's a bit crazy but I'd be down to give it a shot.


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## groove (Apr 2, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project.*

Why not, it's sounds interesting.

Whenever time permits I'll try participating 

Let's see how it goes.


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## joshua (Apr 5, 2013)

Great idea, especially for me a hobbyist, I really need projects, otherwise, I'm not writing any.

Two-week session is good because that means I have two weekends to work on it. I'm not really productive weekdays due to day job. 

I really like the following ideas.
- This can be as simple as someone contributing a melody, and then we are given the task of orchestrating it however we choose. 
- We can limit ourselves to certain instruments. (for example, string quartet, choir only, pizzicato only)


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## Jonik (Apr 5, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project.*

Orchestrating a designated tune how we see fit sounds like a great idea. Would be really interesting to see how everyone treats the same melody line - even down to which chords are used with it (and why?!)


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 5, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project.*

Since there seems to be some more interest we should do this.

I'll work on a simple melody and get it posted later tonight. Writing melodies is something I am working on improving as well, so it will be a pretty simple one.


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## Lke (Apr 6, 2013)

I'd like to join this project too!


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 6, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project.*

Here is the melody I came up with. It's very simple and waiting to be improved. I will update the original post with the guidelines for this first project.

If someone has a better melody they would like to share, please feel free to post it. Maybe we can have two melodies for people to choose from this time.

I'm also hoping my bicep, which I partially tore yesterday, improves, as playing the keyboard is uncomfortable right now. Doctor says I am fine to play, but boy is it not fun!

Don


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## Anonymous (Apr 6, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project.*

This is a GREAT idea! :D Can i join? but i do not have my orchestration tools yet :( would be glad to learn something from you guys!

musicians helping musicians,

music2emotions


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 6, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project.*



music2emotions @ Sat Apr 06 said:


> This is a GREAT idea! :D Can i join? but i do not have my orchestration tools yet :( would be glad to learn something from you guys!
> 
> musicians helping musicians,
> 
> music2emotions



You can join. There are various libraries you can use. Try searching for the Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra and run it in Plogue's sforzanda sampler. All legal and free!


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## joshua (Apr 6, 2013)

This is awesome. Next time be sure the assignment is more focused, say, take this theme and make it epic. Right now if I did chamber and everybody else did epic, I probably wouldn't learn much from others. I want to compare my work with others-- apple to apple, epic to epic.

That said, let's stick with one theme you already provided for the same aforementioned reason.


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## MrVoice (Apr 8, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

I have a simular story as you guys. This seems to be a great and fun idea. 
I want to join in and for once try to finish something.

/Nick


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## Mike Marino (Apr 8, 2013)

What's the timeline to work something up on this melody?


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 8, 2013)

Mike Marino @ Mon Apr 08 said:


> What's the timeline to work something up on this melody?



April 21 is the deadline. It seems like two weeks was the preferred timeline.


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## G-Sun (Apr 8, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Cool. I'm in


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## dimtsak (Apr 9, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Can anyone play and record just the melody,
for those who have problems reading notes?

Thanks


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 9, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*



dimtsak @ Tue Apr 09 said:


> Can anyone play and record just the melody,
> for those who have problems reading notes?
> 
> Thanks



I'll try and get something posted up later this evening. You could download Musescore and input the notes into that. I forgot to put the bpm on the score as well, I wrote it at around 60bpm.

I will also say that I am absolutely certain that the way the notes were transcribed is not the correct way. I simply quanitzed my midi and then imported that into Musescore to get the printout.


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## Chriss Ons (Apr 9, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

You could also download thefree "Notepad" version of _Finale_, it allows you to create / play back scores of up to eight instruments.


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 9, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Here is a midi file with notes as exported from Musescore.


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## Lenny13 (Apr 10, 2013)

Can we modify the melody ? I mean not transforming completely the theme but change some note lenght or pitch.


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 10, 2013)

Lenny13 @ Wed Apr 10 said:


> Can we modify the melody ? I mean not transforming completely the theme but change some note lenght or pitch.



This was really about learning, so feel free to modify it to your tastes. This is not a composer giving an orchestrater a detailed sketch, but rather a very newbish composer who wrote a very simple melody for us to use.

Please make it the best that you can as we can learn from everything. Now, it should probably be kept in a minor key, but other then that have at it.

I have already changed it around a bit just to give it some variation, but I do plan on keeping the original in there somewhere. Also, I can read music, but am not very adept at writing notation so my notation isn't exactly how the melody sounds in my DAW.

This really has the been a good thing for me. I now have a crapload of ideas in a file and have to decide which particular direction to go. That has never happened before as I have always just given my work up as crap and moved on to the next idea. It might still be crap, but this will be finished crap :mrgreen: 

Don


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## Resoded (Apr 10, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

I'm having some problems with the computer that I need to sort out first, but as soon as that's fixed I'll be ready to rumble with the learning projects.

A bit silly perhaps, but knowing that you guys are working on this too is motivating.


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 17, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Just bumping the thread as a reminder that the deadline is approaching. 

I am still having a hard time with the direction my ideas are taking. On one hand I have some piano and strings and then I have some traditional "big" sounding stuff.

I may actually end up with two different pieces, but do not want to get ahead of myself.

Don


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## Lenny13 (Apr 17, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

I'm struggling with the piece. Try to make my first orchestral piece so I'm going through a lot of difficulties : Orchestral template from scratch, articulations, midi, mixing and the fact that I'm using Studio One for the first time. In the end, even though I'm in a hurry and I'm frustrated to have so little time ahead, I think the deadline is a great thing.


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## BenG (Apr 17, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Just saw this and love the idea! I will try an orchestrate something quick by Sunday.


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## Sasje (Apr 17, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Great idea... I tweaked (completed?) the melody a bit! :shock: hope you like it.  I just read this, I don't think I will have enough time to cook something up before the 21st though...
just penned down two bars of chords beneath it and added a cello, but it's far from finished. The attached file is the melody midi.


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 18, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

@Sasje

The deadline is not a contract, just a simple way to get us into writing to a timeframe. Please feel free to finish when you finish. 

My hope is also to start a new one as soon as this one is complete. I haven't had time to listen to your melody. I will try it out during lunch on our school's really bad piano. It looks interesting!


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## Sasje (Apr 18, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Only added 4 notes


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## dimtsak (Apr 20, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

I just finished my orchestration at the melody.

Any comments and mistakes, 
especially from the more experienced ones, would be nice to hear.

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F88693116&secret_url=false[/flash] 

The libraries i've used:
Kirk Hunter Pop Rock Strings
Wivi Band
Sonivox-DVI symphonic Harp
Imperfect Samples- Steinway Walnut Grand


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## Lenny13 (Apr 20, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Done finally ! 

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F88737929&secret_url=false[/flash]

Libraries used :

LAss 1
ProjectSAM Orchestral Brass Classic
ProjectSAM Concert Harp
Drums of War


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## Resoded (Apr 20, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Dimtsak, Lenny, I enjoyed both of your cues. It's great to hear the different results coming from the same melody.


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## uCtaudio (Apr 20, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

and now something completely different!

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F88776325&secret_url=false[/flash]]


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## joshua (Apr 20, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F88798529&secret_url=false[/flash]

LASS 2
Piano in Blue
ArtsAcousticReverb

The idea was to have the piano play the given theme and the string section play completely another theme altogether, providing the counterpoint to the piano part.

The second part of the piece (pizzicato) was supposed to be another variation of the given theme. I'm not really happy with the transition between the first part and second parts. The change sounds unpleasantly abrupt or incoherent to me, but, yeah, there was that deadline.


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 21, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%88823469&secret_url=false[/flash] 

https://soundcloud.com/darthmorphling/b ... dilacerata

I am going to mix it a bit better tomorrow. The hi strings seem to be buried a bit and I'm going to try and find some time to mix with my monitors, as opposed to the headphones.

Libraries:
Spitfire Audio's Albion 1, Sable V1, and Felt Piano
PocketBlakus Solo Cello
Project Alpha's Sad Piano
Subaqueous's Taiko
Recorded in Reaper.

I will upload the midi files tomorrow and go into some thoughts about this piece. It has been a long day!

I listened to all of the pieces and am amazed at what you all came up with! I have a lot to learn.

Would you all be interested in another project? If so we should come up with the criteria for the next one.


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## joshua (Apr 21, 2013)

Yeah, I need to do some write-up for my piece, too. It'll be nice if you can update the first post with all the submissions.

And, yes, we should do another one, starting next weekend as we gather feedback this next few days. Like I said before, the assignment should be more focused so that when listening to the submissions we could look for a *specific* thing.


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## Resoded (Apr 21, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Absolutely, and this time I will be able to participate.


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## Lenny13 (Apr 21, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*



> Would you all be interested in another project? If so we should come up with the criteria for the next one.



Yes ! I think we will have more people involved next time. Can't wait.


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## Farkle (Apr 21, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*



Lenny13 @ Sun Apr 21 said:


> > Would you all be interested in another project? If so we should come up with the criteria for the next one.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes ! I think we will have more people involved next time. Can't wait.



I definitely will be involved in future projects. I'm just in the middle of crunch at work, but once Mid-May hits, I have time, and would love to contribute to these future projects. Count me in for the summer. 

Mike


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## Sasje (Apr 21, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Since I just chimed in, I wasn't able to create a complete composition. :( anyway, I made this last night. I uploaded what I managed to do with the melody in a very small timeframe.
I didn't pay attention to aligning notes, has many flaws, yada yada yada, just straight from Reaper. :D o 


[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F88896338&secret_url=false[/flash]

Used VI's:

Big Fish's London solo strings: Cello Arco Patch.
Kontakt factory library: Timpani.
Various free NKI's & soundfonts: Bassoon, Guitar, C-bass, basic string patch for background.
FX: iZotope Ozone 5 (Orchestral master preset. dynamics: 188, maximizer: 154) on master alone.

I attached the project as a midi.


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 21, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Here is my 2nd attempt at mixing. I think it sounds better, but mixing is even harder than composing!

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F88900896&secret_url=false[/flash]

A piece written for Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project 1.

Libraries:
Spitfire Audio's Albion 1, Sable V1, and Felt Piano
PocketBlakus Solo Cello
Project Alpha's Sad Piano
Subaqueous's Taiko loaded into ProjectAlpha
Recorded in Reaper 4

I ended up having about a 22 minute long project with a lot of incoherent ideas. There were a few that I liked and they ended up making it in the piece. I started out trying to do some counterpoint, but reading about it and putting it into practice are two very different things. That might be an area that we do down the line.

What I learned is that I still have a long way to go with learning to compose. I know a lot more theory than last year at this time, but it is still the thing that is holding me back.

Things I am happy about. I really like the strings and how they blend. With the only exception being the high string part about halfway through. I really like how the Felt Piano and the Sad Piano blend, giving a very distinctive sound.

I'm not completely happy with how the horns came out. I like the blending with the strings, but there are some CC programming tweaks I could do to improve them. The high strings in the second half could be improved. I'm thinking that woodwinds might have been a better choice. I might try that someday.


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 21, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

I have updated the first post with all of our submissions.


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 21, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Remember, it takes people critiquing the pieces for this to work.

@dimtsak

I really liked how you were able to harmonize the instruments. Much better than I was able to do.

The only thing I would say would be to maybe add some reverb. Very nice piece!

@Lenny13
You arranged the strings very well. I though you did a great job varying the piece throughout. You said you were struggling with it, but it doesn't seem that way. There was something about the woodwinds that didn't sound right. Not the playing, or the line, but the sound. Not sure what it could be though.

@uCtaudio

When I heard the first few bars I thought you posted in the wrong thread. Then I heard the melody. I have to say I cannot find anything to suggest to make this better. This is definitely light years beyond my ability! Would you mind posting the midi?

@joshua

I too, had a hard time with my transitions. I ended up using the percussion simply because it was the easiest, and best sounding option I had. I'm not sure what you could put as a transition. Both parts are very different, but there has to be something that could tie them together.

Your piano part is what I was trying to accomplish, but my crappy piano skills wouldn't let me. 

The deadline was always present for me as well. I was presenting to our district's 5th grade teachers yesterday, and my mind kept drifting off to this project.

@Sasje

If you truly just made this last night, then you have a bright future ahead of you in composing. The strings were very ominous sounding. You should definitely try and develop it more since we aren't starting a new one until this weekend.


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## Sasje (Apr 22, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*



Darthmorphling @ Sun Apr 21 said:


> @Sasje
> 
> If you truly just made this last night, then you have a bright future ahead of you in composing. The strings were very ominous sounding. You should definitely try and develop it more since we aren't starting a new one until this weekend.



Thank you!  took me about one hour, all the time I had so far. :D 

If I listen to it now with fresh ears I think I would have done it differently, or move parts around. I think an English horn would have been better instead of a Spanish guitar. I maybe might finish it, not sure yet. I get distracted easily. o


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## Pedro Camacho (Apr 22, 2013)

Am I still in time to make my own take?


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 22, 2013)

Pedro Camacho @ Mon Apr 22 said:


> Am I still in time to make my own take?



Please do as the more that participate the more we can learn!


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## uCtaudio (Apr 22, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*



Darthmorphling @ Mon 22 Apr said:


> @uCtaudio
> 
> When I heard the first few bars I thought you posted in the wrong thread. Then I heard the melody. I have to say I cannot find anything to suggest to make this better. This is definitely light years beyond my ability! Would you mind posting the midi?



hehe thanks , tried to experiment with som rythmic "displacment" 

I used Berlin WW, Lass 2, Emo piano, Damage


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## Sasje (Apr 22, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*



Darthmorphling @ Sun Apr 21 said:


> I too, had a hard time with my transitions. I ended up using the percussion simply because it was the easiest, and best sounding option I had. I'm not sure what you could put as a transition. Both parts are very different, but there has to be something that could tie them together.



I find that progressing is often difficult indeed, there are so many ways of doing something and yet it's limited in the boundaries of the previous bar and used melody/chords. If I'm stuck, I fall back on similitude. Just repeating things but with an octave difference, or just another instrument playing the same thing but slightly different. The ear likes to recognize what it already knows, so that's a small cheat I use. Lately I find that when I insert some silence I can radically change the direction, kinda like a bridge, which would be difficult or would sound strange when it suddenly shifts 180 degrees in a piece. Silence can do so much... Even pulling out most instruments besides a bass and a string layer could spark a whole new direction. But I agree, percussion is a great way to announce a new theme or motif  not sure if it's cheating, it just sounds good naturally/instinctively? 

Anyway, I'm not a theory person. I never had any musical teaching/schooling, so it's all trial and error for me. But that's the fun part, I think.... :D


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 23, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

What do you feel should be the focus for the next session? It seems as if we want to have a more focusued task this time.

I would like to do more of a hybrid/orchestral piece. Not sure how focused we want to make it. Suggestions?

Also, please critique my piece. It can't be so bad that everyone is afraid to tell me how bad it is, right? I like to think my composing is comparable to my teaching level during my second year on the job. Second year teachers see the mistakes they make, but are still not sure of the best way to correct them.

Don


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 23, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*



uCtaudio @ Mon Apr 22 said:


> Darthmorphling @ Mon 22 Apr said:
> 
> 
> > @uCtaudio
> ...



I was looking at your midi file and was able to understand what you were doing a little better. Each of the parts aren't as complicated as I thought, but when you put them all together there is this wonderdul sence of complexity.

Your notes look pretty quantized. Do you enter notes into the piano roll, or do you play the parts and then quantize?

Please, everyone, post your midi files. You can learn a lot from them.


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## Resoded (Apr 23, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Darth: For my part, giving advice feels kind of off since I'm still new myself and don't necessarily know what's wrong or how to correct it.

What I can say about your piece is that I like where it's going. Something that you could perhaps think about is that the start feels, imho, a bit random. I think those double lines are a bit confusing, maybe you could try focusing on one line first and then bring in the other.

Just my 5 cents.


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## Resoded (Apr 23, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

As for future projects, one idea I had just now is to make a piece with only rhythms. Percussion, col legnos, you name it. No tonal instruments whatsoever. Could lead to interesting creative choices.


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## Lenny13 (Apr 23, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Here's mine.

Feel free to comment. I will comment yours later this week


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 23, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*



Resoded @ Tue Apr 23 said:


> Darth: For my part, giving advice feels kind of off since I'm still new myself and don't necessarily know what's wrong or how to correct it.
> 
> What I can say about your piece is that I like where it's going. Something that you could perhaps think about is that the start feels, imho, a bit random. I think those double lines are a bit confusing, maybe you could try focusing on one line first and then bring in the other.
> 
> Just my 5 cents.



i feel the same way about giving advice. I still think it is imortant that we try, because sometimes thinking about how to critique something forces you to look at things differently. Of course I'm not going to tell someone how to fix their counterpoint, but I would tell someone if something sounded off with it. 

Are you reffering to the double piano in the beginning, or the strings?


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## Resoded (Apr 23, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*



Darthmorphling @ 23rd April 2013 said:


> Resoded @ Tue Apr 23 said:
> 
> 
> > Darth: For my part, giving advice feels kind of off since I'm still new myself and don't necessarily know what's wrong or how to correct it.
> ...



Indeed.

I was thinking that you could try playing them in unison the first bar or two just to get the listener more focus and then divide them as you've done now. I like the idea of having two lines at the some time though. Or perhaps play the melody first with only one instrument to introduce the melody by its own first and then build from there with variation and the two lines. It's all a matter of taste though, this was just my first thoughts.


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## Sasje (Apr 23, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*



Darthmorphling @ Tue Apr 23 said:


> Also, please critique my piece. It can't be so bad that everyone is afraid to tell me how bad it is, right? I like to think my composing is comparable to my teaching level during my second year on the job. Second year teachers see the mistakes they make, but are still not sure of the best way to correct them.
> 
> Don



Hi Don!

I hope you don't mind, I downloaded your midi and played a bit with it a moment ago. I really do like the composition you've made! Things that I noticed: as the previous commenter said it sounded a bit random in the first bar, not quite fluid? I adjusted the alignment of the notes a bit and changed the intro also a little bit. I also noticed many CC behaviors, many velocity/modwheel changes on the strings. I usually don't use such a broad velocity interaction on strings, so I removed much of it. Could be personal taste though!  

Let me know what you think! the changed midi is attached as well.

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F89217738&secret_url=false[/flash]


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## Sasje (Apr 23, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*



Darthmorphling @ Tue Apr 23 said:


> What do you feel should be the focus for the next session? It seems as if we want to have a more focusued task this time.
> 
> Don



How about a true collaborative experiment? Something like: everyone writing 8 bars, upload the midi and then everyone can write 8 bars to it? designate applicants to a number of bars, so that no one writes the same bars. Upload and download the current midi that is posted... and in the end everyone can upload their complete version of it.

Sound like fun, also a great way of learning I think? or is it too complicated? not sure...


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 23, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*



Sasje @ Tue Apr 23 said:


> Hi Don!
> 
> I hope you don't mind, I downloaded your midi and played a bit with it a moment ago. I really do like the composition you've made! Things that I noticed: as the previous commenter said it sounded a bit random in the first bar, not quite fluid? I adjusted the alignment of the notes a bit and changed the intro also a little bit. I also noticed many CC behaviors, many velocity/modwheel changes on the strings. I usually don't use such a broad velocity interaction on strings, so I removed much of it. Could be personal taste though!



I like what you did with it! I am not a piano player, rather a guitarist, so writing convincing parts for me is tough. I am working on it, but really only get about an hour a day to write/practice. It's something I am working on, but slow going

I'm not sure doing eight bars at a time will work as everyone's schedule is different. This time of year is rather hectic at work. Lots of paperwork needs to be completed before summer vacation. I also have five kids, so I cannot guarantee the times I will be available. It might be something to look into down the road if people are still interested in these projects.


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## joshua (Apr 23, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Here's my midi. Not sure if I exported it correctly. Let me know if I missed anything.


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## Sasje (Apr 24, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*



Darthmorphling @ Tue Apr 23 said:


> I like what you did with it! I am not a piano player, rather a guitarist, so writing convincing parts for me is tough. I am working on it, but really only get about an hour a day to write/practice. It's something I am working on, but slow going



I didn't change much in the piece actually. It's still your score, albeit with a difference.  

Not sure if it's due to the midi export, but many notes were shifted the further the score went, as if they were copy/pasted? Copy pasting notes goes right for about two bars, after two bars they will be misaligned and the notes will shift a small step each time. Normally I align each note by hand when I finish something. I zoom in about 5 times and align them. Tedious work, but it's a good way to get it correct. Automatic quantizing doesn't really work for me.

btw anyone may butcher my little score also :D there is a lot to pick on also. >8o 



Darthmorphling @ Tue Apr 23 said:


> I'm not sure doing eight bars at a time will work as everyone's schedule is different. This time of year is rather hectic at work. Lots of paperwork needs to be completed before summer vacation. I also have five kids, so I cannot guarantee the times I will be available. It might be something to look into down the road if people are still interested in these projects.



I really like this project. I'm interested with what you will come up with.


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## Sasje (Apr 24, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

Another idea: how about composing for a short movie?  

For example: Tears of Steel. It is an open source movie, licensed under creative commons:



The source files are found here: http://media.xiph.org/tearsofsteel/

http://tearsofsteel.org/


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## joshua (Apr 24, 2013)

^^ Someone make a one-minute-or-so trailer out of that movie, then we could write some trailer music for it.


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 24, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

That sounds like a really cool idea. I would like to do it, but I don't think I'm even close to ready for it. If that's what you all want to do, it can be the focus. I'll attempt it.

Is anyone capable of editing it down?


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## Sasje (Apr 24, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

:D Another "open movie", which incidentally has a very nice score.



There are also lot of alternatives: http://www.open-video.org/


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## joshua (Apr 24, 2013)

I could try editing the trailer for Tears of Steel. Downloading the .mxf file right now. I don't recognize this file extension, so, I'll see if I could load this up. But I could only edit and finish the trailer on Saturday. If anyone wants to take over just let me know.


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 25, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

I checked out the directory, and the actual movies website, and there does not seem to be seperated stems for audio. Only seperated surround stems. I don't think we will be able to get the music out without removing the dialogue. Perhaps we should put off doing something like this for another session?

Any other ideas?


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## joshua (Apr 25, 2013)

I started the music Reaching by AudioMachine, played the movie muted, jumped from scene to scene, and well, it kinda worked. Try it. See Man of Steel's trailer #1--it's got music only with few narration.


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## joshua (Apr 27, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

OK, here's my trailer edit if it's usable at all. I slapped a Damage loop (130 bpm). Just mute it and write your own music; so will I. Just start a new thread if we wanna do this.



Download link: http://my.rhymedcode.net/files/vi/Tears ... railer.mp4


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 28, 2013)

*Re: Vi-control's Collaborative Learning Project #1*

What is the consensus? Do we want to do the the trailer that Joshua generously edited for us? If so, I humbly request we add an extra week to the deadline. I need to figure out how to add markers, and just generally work with video, in Reaper.

Let me know so I can start the new thread.


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## joshua (Apr 28, 2013)

Well, there are at least two people (you and me) who are gonna do it, so just start the thread. I'm fine with whatever deadline.


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## Lenny13 (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm in too guys


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## Sasje (Apr 28, 2013)

Wow nice Joshua! the trailer looks great!  this will be an amazing thing to try out.


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## joshua (Apr 30, 2013)

OK, I owed you guys this.

@Lenny13
That string pad in the beginning sounds so static and synthy. But then again I've never held a note that long, not sure how it's supposed to sound.

I like how the brass accompaniment in the beginning. I like that lower string starting at :24. I love the arrangement. Plenty of variety. Your ending was somewhat what I tried to accomplish and failed.


@uCtaudio 
Yeah, this is something else and really, really good and more sophisticated than other submissions. I'm not sure about epic-style string playing along with jazz like that. I wanna hear if you do jazz intro and then transform to epic/cinematic style, but never jazz and epic at the same time. Probably just change the string to chamber will do it for me.

@Sasje 
Not fond of the tone of the pad in the first half, but the solo part quickly saves it. Proper percussion tone; it blends nicely.

@Dimtsak 
I wanna hear legato playing from those woodwinds. I really like the notes you played on that harp. The piano sounds don't belong.

@Darthmorphling 
I like the vibe in the beginning and that noise in the background. The string sounds thin.
At 1:07, the taiko cuts off the brass weirdly and sounds like the taiko needs to be played and placed better.


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 30, 2013)

joshua @ Tue Apr 30 said:


> OK, I owed you guys this.
> 
> 
> I like the vibe in the beginning and that noise in the background. The string sounds thin.
> At 1:07, the taiko cuts off the brass weirdly and sounds like the taiko needs to be played and placed better.



Agree about the percussion. Which strings, the solo cello, or the full strings?

And thanks for the critique!


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## joshua (Apr 30, 2013)

Full string, the non-rhythmic section, I thought. But I was on my headphone. It sounds fine on my monitors, after all, it plays high notes.


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## wanmingyan (Jul 21, 2013)

Is it too late for me to start this now?...because it seems like this thread and project initiative was started quite some time ago...

-WMY :(


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## Darthmorphling (Jul 21, 2013)

Feel free to submit a piece, for this or any of these projects. We are currently in the middle of project 5.

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32586

And welcome!

Don


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## presetfreund (Oct 27, 2013)

*My contribution (slightly behind schedule ...) to Cooperative Learning Project 1*

Here is my contribution (slightly behind schedule ...) to Cooperative Learning Project 1: Evolving a motif.

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F117023378&secret_url=false[/flash]

Includes two variations of the motif (one slow, one fast). You will note that the rhythm of the motif remains the same throughout the entire piece while only the tonality/melody varies.

Hope you will enjoy it. Your comments e.g. on how to optimize welcome!


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## Lenny13 (Oct 27, 2013)

Amazing piece ! Great sound, great orchestration ! Which libraries do you use ?


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## presetfreund (Oct 27, 2013)

Lenny13 @ Sun Oct 27 said:


> Amazing piece ! Great sound, great orchestration ! Which libraries do you use ?


Thank you.*
LASS, Cinematic Strings 2 and some older libraries for strings, as well as Sam Horns, default Kontakt Libraries, Ethno World 4, Siedlaczek, Vitous, Percussion & Loops from Storm Drum, Distorted Reality, Percussive Adventures ... I think the oldest patch I use is some odd sf2 (soundblaster) patch which I imported into Steinberg Halion fifteen years ago.

*Listened to your piece, too, and found it very tasteful and emotional - good music in my ears! Thanks for sharing.
If you ask me, the oboe at the beginning should sound more "expensive"
e.g. adding more reverb might work fine, here. All the other elements felt fine in that context.


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## synergy543 (Oct 27, 2013)

Andreas, your first version is a very impressive orchestral adaption of that theme. Nicely done.


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## Darthmorphling (Oct 28, 2013)

*Re: My contribution (slightly behind schedule ...) to Cooperative Learning Project 1*



presetfreund @ Sun Oct 27 said:


> Here is my contribution (slightly behind schedule ...) to Cooperative Learning Project 1: Evolving a motif.
> 
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F117023378&secret_url=false[/flash]



I'm listening to your submission again and I am floored. Just phenomenal writing! I like how you basically did two seperate pieces with the melody, but at the same time they both work together.

I actually listened to my submission, which I haven't done in a while. I really want to revisit it as I have learned so much since starting these.


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## presetfreund (Nov 12, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Wed Mar 27 said:


> Darthmorphling
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F88900896&secret_url=false[/flash]
> 
> 
> ...



@ Darthmorphling
First issues that come into my mind when listening to your submission are 'clarity' and 'increase tension'.


Speaking of clarity.
I like your idea of presenting two variations of the motif in contrapuntal writing (here: cello and high piano). However, in your submission at the beginning it is hard to recognize the two variations in their entirety.

At first, I would refine/optimize primary theme as well as countertheme (your two variations) on the piano, rhythmically. So I would learn/plan how they dovetail/interlock only while having them played back on the piano.

Next would be orchestration: cello and high piano is a good choice although it does not yet really work here: one reason may be that the counterpart is simply too low in volume yet, plus yet not clearly enough reg. rhythm (see above); maybe, too, because they are too far away from each other, regarding pitch.

In general, I would try out some very lush orchestrations because of the dramatic potential of your inventions but thats a matter of taste, knowledge, and last not least, designated use (if there is any). Again, the aim would be to make easy identifying both themes.


Speaking of increase tension.
There is a good opportunity for building up tension starting from 0:25, reaching the climax at 1:07. You already did in part: thickening the counterpoint (0:46), and putting a climax point (1:07).

However there is still more I would do here for a build-up. Most of all, accelerating the pace (speed, not tempo) by applying 16th notes, e.g. 16th strings spiccatos/Staccatos, and or 16t percussion notes, starting maybe from 0:47, or, in order to make the transition not too obvious, one or two bars earlier.

Also, increasing the music in vertical direction, i.e. having stacc.strings play not only one note but chords (only one example) might increase tension.


With your permission, I would like to have a try on your submission and apply my advices to see how it works.


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## harlandsanders (Dec 20, 2013)

*Re: My contribution (slightly behind schedule ...) to Cooperative Learning Project 1*



presetfreund @ Sun Oct 27 said:


> Here is my contribution (slightly behind schedule ...) to Cooperative Learning Project 1: Evolving a motif.
> 
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F117023378&secret_url=false[/flash]
> 
> ...



Hi presetfreund, I really liked your piece! Could you please tell me which library you used for the highest percussion which comes in right at the start of the second variation? Thanks!


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## presetfreund (Dec 20, 2013)

*Re: My contribution (slightly behind schedule ...) to Cooperative Learning Project 1*



harlandsanders @ Fri Dec 20 said:


> Could you please tell me which library you used for the highest percussion which comes in right at the start of the second variation? Thanks!



If you mean the hi-hattish 16th (quarter note = 144bpm):
it´s a slightly edited loop from the "Matrix"- folder of the "Prosamples Vol 04: Percussive Loops from Percussive Adventures" library


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## Darthmorphling (Dec 20, 2013)

presetfreund @ Tue Nov 12 said:


> With your permission, I would like to have a try on your submission and apply my advices to see how it works.



I just realized I never told you it was ok to try the ideas out on my submission. Please do so.

I have often though about going back and redoing some of these submissions, but that seems a little too much George Lucas. I think I may just leave these as reminders of how much I have improved. Of course that will take me actually improving first. :mrgreen:


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## presetfreund (Dec 21, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Fri Dec 20 said:


> presetfreund @ Tue Nov 12 said:
> 
> 
> > With your permission, I would like to have a try on your submission and apply my advices to see how it works.
> ...


Already busily doing it :mrgreen: 
but - thanks for replying



Darthmorphling @ Fri Dec 20 said:


> I have often though about going back and redoing some of these submissions, but that seems a little too much George Lucas.



:D 
i appreciate that idiom, has been new to me



Darthmorphling @ Fri Dec 20 said:


> I think I may just leave these as reminders of how much I have improved. Of course that will take me actually improving first. :mrgreen:



Go ahead!

cheers


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## BKSchatzki (Feb 27, 2014)

Had to join the forum for this! I'm gonna be playing catch-up with this CLP, and I've already decided that my piece is the worst of them all! :oops:

As per the description, this was hardly produced. It sounds like stock music dreaming of greener pastured. I used only ProjectSAM OE libraries for this one; they work very well without manipulation, but they're a little live for me when it comes to serious production. I might run back into the arms of Kontakt's VSL sample for the remaining exercises, particularly for the instruments being all articulations of one instrument rather than one articulation of the entire section. (Hear my clarinet become a flute on the Bb, or F# in my case.)

I juxtaposed the Aolian IV with the Dorian IV in my exits from the given motif, and bonus points for finding the French chord. Instruments play hot potato with the different melodies. I'm composing in my comfort zone right now; overwriting and underproducing is typical for me, and I haven't yet played with something like letting a pad and a reverby piano take up the entire piece.

Enough of my preempting criticism! PLEASE eviscerate it. I'm gonna start catching up with the current lessons, but I'm going to be revising every submission with your advice! :D

https://soundcloud.com/brendan-k-schatzki/v-i-control-clp-1-expanding-a

I'll figure out how to embed SoundCloud files later. 

Happy to be here! Don't go easy on the neophyte; I can take it! o-[][]-o


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## joshua (Feb 28, 2014)

@BKSchatzki,

I really, really, really like the composition/arrangement!

Yup, you need to learn your DAW. Currently it sounds robotic, flat (no dynamic).

It's really a good start!


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## BKSchatzki (Feb 28, 2014)

Pretty much what I expected yeah.  I've done a bit of traditional composing but I've yet to really get my hands dirty on the production side; most automation is a jungle to me and I haven't figured out how to utilize CC11 quite yet. It often seems that my virtual orchestra doesn't understand "mezzo" haha.

Thanks for that though!


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## presetfreund (Oct 17, 2015)

(only one year later)
...i did it again!

http://vi-control.net/community/threads/audiopicture-15.49198/

More versions of the motif!


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## Darthmorphling (Oct 17, 2015)

I r


presetfreund said:


> (only one year later)
> ...i did it again!
> 
> http://vi-control.net/community/threads/audiopicture-15.49198/
> ...



I commented on your member composition post, but again marvelous job!


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