# Cubase 8 and Disabled Tracks in Templates



## jonathanwright (Oct 3, 2015)

Hello all,

I've been recently putting together a large modular template together using VEP5 and Cubase 8.0.30.

I set up all the tracks I could possibly need, along with connections to VEP instances (using track, not rack instruments), all of them disabled after being configured.

The idea being that I could open whichever pre-built VEP instances I'd need when starting a project, then enable the appropriate tracks in Cubase without having to set them up.

I've come up against a stumbling block though. When I enable a track, often the midi channels have 'no midi input' and if they do, they'll be from the wrong VEP instance.

Is this a limitation of VEP/Cubase? Shouldn't Cubase remember the assignments?

If I approach it slightly differently and start with a blank template and add multiple VEP tracks from a Track Preset, they connect without a hitch.

I read that there were issues with disabling tracks, but that they were fixed in the latest version, is this not the case or is it just me?


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 3, 2015)

8.0.30 improved this greatly. The bad news... I had to redo all those tracks in 8.0.30, updating the software and using pre-existing template didn't work for me.

I've had it once I think where it reverted to no midi input in 8.0.30, but most of the time it's fine. Occasionally I've had a crash when I've enabled lots of tracks simultaneously.

I'm using the enable tracks feature a lot in a new template for non-orchestral work, and its quite revolutionary (it was fun to add a mini orchestra to my non-orchestral template, entirely on disabled tracks... I'm forever just needing an instrument or two and loading the whole bloody lot is a sledgehammer to crack a nut). It doesn't feel quite stable or mature enough to me to think about doing an entire orchestral template this way (and of course there is a few seconds wait as you enable each track), but it's a very useful feature.


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## InLight-Tone (Oct 3, 2015)

I have a 1500+ track template that is all individual instrument tracks, all disabled with everything pre-routed to groups and what not. I do this to avoid having to use VEPro as well as run and maintain multiple computers which I'm allergic too. 

It's pretty nice with Lemur, just push a button and the track is ready. In the mixer all you see are your emabled tracks and the group tracks and everything ends up in proper order in the VST rack. Since it's all instrument tracks I don't have to mess with extra midi tracks and there's a stereo out for each track, simple and clean.

8.0.30 fixed the midi midi input and quick controls as Guy mentioned though Cubase does not properly recall expression maps unfortunately. I have saved all the tracks as track presets and just have to hit the reload button and the expression map pops back in, all ion all a fast and simple way to maintain and work a large template.

One big drawback to this is that when saving, Cubase takes some 15 seconds probably due to the huge amount of Kontakt instances it's keeping track of. We have filed the issue of saving and expression maps with Steiny.


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## jonathanwright (Oct 3, 2015)

Thanks for the replies guys.

It certainly has the potential to be an amazing useful feature. Just a bit frustrating at the moment.

Guy, when you said you had to build a new template, do you mean it was from a completely blank project?

I ask as it's just occurred to me that this whopper I've just 'finished' was based on a template a built in version 8.0.20 that simply contained a few group tracks, is that not fresh enough or would you recommend I start with a completely blank slate?

That's an interesting approach you've taken there InLight-Tone and quite tempting to try as despite being a huge track count, the actual routing is nice and neat.


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## jonathanwright (Oct 3, 2015)

Urgh, it now appears even the Track Presets have decided not to connect correctly either.


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## Rv5 (Oct 3, 2015)

I've also heard mention that templates are often having to be rebuilt at every .5 release? So to CuBase users, come December when there may be the 8.5 update is it likely a template will be needed/recommended?


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## InLight-Tone (Oct 3, 2015)

jonathanwright said:


> Thanks for the replies guys.
> 
> That's an interesting approach you've taken there InLight-Tone and quite tempting to try as despite being a huge track count, the actual routing is nice and neat.



With the hide track features it's quite manageable and I'm only using an Android phone and Lemur at the moment to interact with it all. I'll make a video about it soon. I really hope they fix the bugs soonish...


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 3, 2015)

jonathanwright said:


> Guy, when you said you had to build a new template, do you mean it was from a completely blank project?



It was only the disabled tracks I had to redo. It still doesn't feel 100% there yet, I'm not ready to jump in fully like InLight, I can well imagine finding further issues. Incidentally, I mapped enable / disable to E on the keyboard - bang, done.


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## jonathanwright (Oct 4, 2015)

Guy Rowland said:


> It was only the disabled tracks I had to redo. It still doesn't feel 100% there yet, I'm not ready to jump in fully like InLight, I can well imagine finding further issues. Incidentally, I mapped enable / disable to E on the keyboard - bang, done.



In the end I've started completely fresh, adding all of my track presets one by one into a new project, saving as a template then quitting and booting Cubase up again to double check. Keeping _everything_ crossed, it looks like it's working this time.

The keyboard shortcuts in Cubase are fantastic aren't they? I set up a nice iPad template for key commands but it just sits there as using the keyboard feels so much quicker.


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## jonathanwright (Oct 4, 2015)

Quick update.

My new, freshly cooked template is completed and Cubase now connects to the correct VEP instruments.

Unfortunately all of the tracks default to 'Not Connected' when I enable them in a new project created form the template, and I manually have to select 'All MIDI Inputs'. A quick job but apparently it should have been fixed in .30.

I've posted on the Steinberg forums.


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## InLight-Tone (Oct 4, 2015)

Frustrating, but the potential of this feature is great...


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## jonathanwright (Oct 4, 2015)

Very true, hopefully they'll 're-acknowledge' the issue and fix it.


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 4, 2015)

InLight-Tone said:


> Frustrating, but the potential of this feature is great...



Exactly how I feel. If they really sort out all the kinks, I can imagine facing the horror of totally redoing my template with disabled tracks, and no VE Pro. The VE Pro model is incredibly wasteful when you think about it, many of us only using a few percent of the stuff that is available to us and a fair few using multiple machines just to do so.

But, sledgehammer to crack a nut though it is, VE Pro still has its place for now. It's instant access, it works, disabled tracks are still a bit glitchy. But it feels like its days are numbered, perhaps.

One feature I might put in as a request would be to auto-enable disabled tracks when you click on them. This would be really effective if it was truly instant access, and especially if the second or two it takes to enable was a background process that didn't stop you doing anything else. One other refinement (this may be possible now maybe with some macros?) would be a quick toggle between your regular view and just enabled tracks.


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## JT3_Jon (Oct 4, 2015)

Link to your cubase post so that we may support it and maybe cause some waves of change.


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## JT3_Jon (Oct 4, 2015)

Guy Rowland said:


> One feature I might put in as a request would be to auto-enable disabled tracks when you click on them. This would be really effective if it was truly instant access, and especially if the second or two it takes to enable was a background process that didn't stop you doing anything else. One other refinement (this may be possible now maybe with some macros?) would be a quick toggle between your regular view and just enabled tracks.



Great suggestions! If you post them as feature requests in the steinberg forums post the link here so that again we may support it. I especially like the visibility toggle between activated and deactivated tracks. I had a quick look in the project logical editor and it does not seem to be currently possible unless you put all your disabled tracks in a folder. Then you can show/hide the folder easily. I work around, but to have enabled/disabled as properties in the logical editor would be better as I could keep my folder hierarchy instead of having to put all disabled tracks in a dedicated folder. .


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## jonathanwright (Oct 5, 2015)

JT3_Jon said:


> Link to your cubase post so that we may support it and maybe cause some waves of change.



I added a comment to and existing thread in 'Issues'. The thread isn't there currently as it's waiting to be moderated.


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 5, 2015)

Here's my feature request for disabled tracks workflow enhancements - +1s and comments there appreciated.

http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=228&t=86341


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## jonathanwright (Oct 5, 2015)

Done.


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## jonathanwright (Oct 9, 2015)

Thought I'd give a quick update on this (if anyone's interested!).

For some miraculous reason, Cubase decided to start connecting to my VEP instances and instruments and recalling the correct Expression Maps without a hitch. I've no idea why, I didn't change a thing, it just did.

Which of course makes it possible that it'll stop working again at any time, but there we go.

In the end I created a hybrid of _InLight-Tone_'s template and using VEP. All instrument are loaded within Cubase on separate tracks and then disabled. The exception being my Play libraries, which are on a slave PC and so while still disable are hosted outside of Cubase.

I then set up several visibility configurations, so I can easily call up the tracks that I will need on a particular type of project, so in many ways it's an 'all-in-one' template.

It seems to work pretty well. I've discovered a couple of bugs (Cubase on a Mac), if I try to disable a track with an insert effect on it, it will crash. Likewise, if I click on _any_ window outside of Cubase while it's doing anything Enable/Disable track related, it will crash.

One question, does anyone know how to hide folder tracks when viewing tracks with data? Often, when I use 'Show tracks with data' half the track count will be taken up by folder tracks, which aren't necessary?


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## JT3_Jon (Oct 9, 2015)

Thanks for the update. I'm very interesting to see how things progress with you. Quick question, may I ask why you choose to use Instrument tracks instead of instrument racks for your VE pro instruments? I would prefer to use Instrument tracks too for the fact that all the audio inputs back from VE pro are on a single track (makes it easy to find) but the problem is its limits VE pro to a single port, correct, which means more separate instances of VE pro and thus more CPU usage, correct? 

Also I'm still having the bug where if you disconnect a track that uses multiple midi channels (i.e. a VE pro track) when I re-enable the instrument track, midi 1 connects, but midi tracks 2-16 they loose their port connections. Very annoying! Is there a quick way to select all and reassign them?


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## jonathanwright (Oct 9, 2015)

Choosing Instrument tracks has been a bit of an experiment really. Like you, the sheer number of outputs and various routing here and there tends to get a bit unwieldy, so I thought I try this approach - I use Logic X now and again too and this is the optimal way there, so I thought I'd give it a go in Cubase.

I have _lots_ of VEP instances on my slave, one for each instrument (V1, V2, Flute, Oboe etc). In Cubase I'll add the VEP instrument track, then however many MIDI tracks I need. It does keep routing much simpler.

I haven't had any performance issues at all, whether this is because I have a great deal of my tracks disabled at any one time I don't know, but it may be the reason. It's certainly better than having everything loaded, eating up RAM and and CPU.

As I've progressed I've also saved every single instrument as a Track Preset. As I'm also tempted to use the 'blank template - load up prebuilt tracks as I go' route. I've always found the Cubase track Preset system horrible though, I've ended up assigning five stars to everything and using that as a filter so I can find my presets easily.

To change track inputs/midi channels in bulk, hold down Alt/Shift at the same time as making the assignment.


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## synapse21 (Oct 31, 2015)

I have a related question, if you don't mind:

I recently finished setting up my VEP template for orchestral VIs routed into Nuendo 6.5 (same machine) and now I'm adding additional VIs within the Nuendo session (using Instrument Tracks) with the intention of having them deactivated so that they do not use up any memory until activated / used.

The problem is that once I re-load the session, they're slowly loading up in the background anyway, even while deactivated in the VST rack.

Is there another way I should be doing this that I'm overlooking?

Thanks for any help.


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## kavinsky (Oct 31, 2015)

Sometimes the midi tracks in my template randomly reconnect to other instrument tracks after recalling the project. No idea why it happens


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## synapse21 (Oct 31, 2015)

I solved my own problem. I didn't realize that you needed to have *some* MIDI data on a channel in order to freeze it, and once you DO freeze it, only _then _does it it offer up an *Unload Instrument when Frozen* checkbox to tick in Nuendo 6.5.40:






So now I simply have a short quarter-note triad on every Instrument Track that I wish to freeze by default in the project, saved _just outside_ the MIDI event's actual range, so when frozen the VI will not only be unloaded, it also won't play back that frozen chord accidentally:






Doing it this way also keeps all inputs and routing intact once unfrozen. It's also fine for me to have these little frozen MIDI events on each unused Instrument Track as I typically set up each one with customized Expression Maps and continuous controller views anyway, which also remains intact.

If the Disable Instrument Track feature ever comes to Nuendo (maybe it's in v.7?), I will try that, but for now - this works well.

Hope this helps someone!


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## samphony (Nov 4, 2015)

Disable track is available in nuendo 7 and Cubase 8.


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## stigc56 (Nov 5, 2015)

Are there any advantages in using Nuendo instead of Cubase 8?


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## samphony (Nov 5, 2015)

Yes a lot of them but only if you need them. Like multiple marker tracks, edit mode etc


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## stigc56 (Nov 5, 2015)

Can you advise me where I can get further information?
A table with the differences between Cubase 8 and Nuendo 7, would be great.
I really need to be able to create several mixes of the same project, this is possible in DP9 but very difficult in Cubase 8.


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## IFM (Nov 16, 2015)

I am building my C8 template now too. I thought of using Rack instruments at one point but it seems the best way now is just like I did in LPX before with Instrument Tracks. I assigned COMMAND+D as a shortcut. I like the fact it is fully ready to go but completely unloaded. 

So far I have not had it forget my MIDI in or the Expression Maps. 

Chris


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## samphony (Nov 20, 2015)

stigc56 said:


> Can you advise me where I can get further information?
> A table with the differences between Cubase 8 and Nuendo 7, would be great.
> I really need to be able to create several mixes of the same project, this is possible in DP9 but very difficult in Cubase 8.



The only daw I know that can do what you're looking for is reaper with the SWS extension. Cubase has track versions. Maybe with a couple of macros or key commands you can create a similar workflow?

Otherwise the comparison charts are here (Cubase only)

http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/cubase/line_up.html

Maybe you contact steinberg pre sales to get more info?


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## amitnj29 (Jan 26, 2016)

Hi guys. Is there any way to diable 'rack instrument' too. Or this feature is only for track instruments. Thanks


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jan 26, 2016)

amitnj29 said:


> Hi guys. Is there any way to diable 'rack instrument' too. Or this feature is only for track instruments. Thanks



Not with the same benefits of having a template consisting of instrument tracks. When you disable a rack instrument, you disable everything it contains. For example, if you're having a Kontakt instance loaded with all the string sections, and have those routed to different MIDI tracks - track 1 vor Violins I, track 2 to Violins 2, track 3 to Violas etc., you can't disable the violins, but keep the basses active or something like that. Either the whole rack instrument is active or inactive.


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## amitnj29 (Jan 26, 2016)

Well I am trying to make a template. So its going to be trial and errors before I come to something which I find good for me.
The reason I decided to try it rack way is because I dont have much ram, so having kontakt instance for each single instrument and articulation would be too much for me. 
What you said is true. I thought this could be taken care of by keeping the non used instrument purged.
can you suggest any better way, that would be helpful, and is it possible to disable rack instrument. How I cannot find.


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## muk (Jan 26, 2016)

Only recently I found out that bypassing a plugin in VE Pro frees up the resources the plugin uses. I have a setup with many instances of reverb and other plugins. If everything is enabled my cpu can't handle it in realtime. Easy solution: bypass the plugins when working on a piece, and activate them only for rendering. Maybe you can do the same in Cubase 8.5, but for me it's very easy and efficient to do it in VE Pro. Sorry if that is widely known.


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## 5Lives (Apr 23, 2016)

Anybody have a suggestion on how to fix / avoid the bug in 8.5 where when I re-enable a disabled instrument track and associated MIDI tracks, the MIDI tracks are no longer connected properly?

Thank you! Trying out the Cubase 8.5 trial...


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## 5Lives (Apr 25, 2016)

Decided to just use purged samples instead of disabling. Longer start up time but then everything is instantly playable.


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## jonathanwright (Apr 26, 2016)

I've absolutely no idea why, but after recently adding a few new instruments to my template it appears to be behaving itself with MIDI tracks connecting when enabled.

As I say, this could be just because the wind was blowing in the right direction at the time.


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## Pablocrespo (Apr 26, 2016)

I think one way it works (not fully tested) is making the test from scratch. Using tracks saved (disabled) with older versions don't work. But creating a new template could help....maybe


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## 5Lives (Apr 26, 2016)

I tried with a brand new project on a brand new install of Cubase 8.5 and unfortunately it didn't work. Same bug.


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## Pablocrespo (Apr 26, 2016)

ok, there goes my hope....I think steinberg is fixing this matter, but...who knows


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## InLight-Tone (Apr 26, 2016)

Pablocrespo said:


> ok, there goes my hope....I think steinberg is fixing this matter, but...who knows


They stated recently that they will fix it in an upcoming update, hopefully soon...


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## FriFlo (Oct 20, 2016)

Can anyone tell me, whether all of those re-enabling problems have gone now? I am still on Cubase 8, but am going to get 8.5 soon. Specifically, I am interested in the midi send port settings! These definitively never come back and with my setup, I unfortunately have a midi send on every midi channel I use ... I do that to feed information about the instrument currently selected to my controller, in case anyone wonders.
Could someone try, if those port settings you select there are being remembered correctly after reenabling a track? In Cubase 8 it does remember the send channel, but not the port after closing the program. I really hope, Steinberg will make all of it work fully, finally! It is such a shame, that all of these feature could make it the best DAW, if only they were all thoroughly done ...


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 20, 2016)

It works for me now on instrument tracks, FriFlo, in the latest version. Some still have some glitches in some areas, but it's ok here - the caveat is that you'll initially have to renable and resave them - existing templates don't work by default, only tracks disabled with the new version will open correctly.

Really hoping they increase the functionality of Disabled Tracks in v9 - my feature request thread is here https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=228&t=86341&sid=ca089ee2cb543b01f95294336b4e3e69 .


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## FriFlo (Oct 20, 2016)

Thanks guy! So, you mean, I have to reactivate all the tracks in my project, set the right ports and then it will become permanent? Including expression maps and midi routing? You are on Cubase 8.5, right? 
If you find the time, could just set up an unused midi track in your template and set its midi send to a specific port and channel (e.g., some unused virtual midi port or your Piano VSTi inside Cubase)? Then, you disable the channel and save. After the next program program start, could you see, if those settings will be remembered reactivating the track? Thanks!
I think the whole reactivation problems came from incomplete track presets. Ther, you have the same mess in Cubase 8! Those track presets also remember the plugins used and there settings, but not most of the other inspector settings. I can see, where this could make sense using track presets, but it definitively doesn't with reactivation of tracks! I also hope, Steinberg is going to push those really useful features further with v9 instead of toy stuff that most professionals won't use or another synth VSTi ... Mostly, I hope for a very detailed upgrade of the expression maps, taking all libraries switching methods into account (e.g. Capsule multi dimensional switching)!


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## ZeroZero (Oct 20, 2016)

Hello Folks I am just regungitating some old Cubase orchestral templates I wrote for Halion and EW. At the time they were written we did not have VCA faders. Are there any benefits to using these instead of group tracks?
I am not clear on the difference between routing to a group track andVCA faders in orchestral templates.


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## DR BOOWHO (Oct 20, 2016)

FriFlo said:


> Can anyone tell me, whether all of those re-enabling problems have gone now? I am still on Cubase 8, but am going to get 8.5 soon. Specifically, I am interested in the midi send port settings! These definitively never come back and with my setup, I unfortunately have a midi send on every midi channel I use ... I do that to feed information about the instrument currently selected to my controller, in case anyone wonders.
> Could someone try, if those port settings you select there are being remembered correctly after reenabling a track? In Cubase 8 it does remember the send channel, but not the port after closing the program. I really hope, Steinberg will make all of it work fully, finally! It is such a shame, that all of these feature could make it the best DAW, if only they were all thoroughly done ...


If you are staying on Cubase 8 then it still has many problems when tracks enabled. It is hit and miss on sends, Quick controls, Expression maps, I had a ticket open with Steinberg support but they seem to have washed their hands on a fix. Going to 8.5 seems to provide a more reliable result, but as yet I have resisted as a principle to having to pay out for something that was included in 8 therefore should work. Perhaps 9 maybe the way to go..


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 20, 2016)

FriFlo said:


> Thanks guy! So, you mean, I have to reactivate all the tracks in my project, set the right ports and then it will become permanent? Including expression maps and midi routing? You are on Cubase 8.5, right?



Yes, that's it - enable, fix, disable. My experience anyway. The test you mention should work ok I think - bedtime here I'm afraid! Night night.


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## FriFlo (Oct 22, 2016)

By the was! I just made the Upgrade ... and ... the midi send port will of course NOT be remembered! Thanks Obama! ... no ... Steinberg!


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## Piano & Strings (Mar 6, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> By the was! I just made the Upgrade ... and ... the midi send port will of course NOT be remembered! Thanks Obama! ... no ... Steinberg!


Can anyone report if this was fixed in Cubase 9?


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## Oliver (Mar 6, 2017)

no it isn't. unfortunatley


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 6, 2017)

I can't believe they can't fix this after so many updates!


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## Patrick de Caumette (Mar 7, 2017)

Another case where the inputs are disconnected is when you import tracks from project.


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## mjsalam (Mar 8, 2017)

My experience with 9 has been that the following appear to be fixed/remembered:


Expression Maps
MIDI Input
Channel Output Routing
This is as much as I have needed so far and so it's all I can speak to. I did have to enable/fix/disable as was described previously.


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## Vanni (Mar 8, 2017)

Dear all,
I'm not clear on a simple thing: on a Cubase setup with VEP slave(s), what is the advantage of disabling the midi tracks that route to a given VEP instance? Disabling a midi track does not give any performance advantage, and it does not disable/unload the specific articulation that is routed to within the VEP slave (thus reducing the load on the slave), does it?


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## mjsalam (Mar 8, 2017)

Vanni said:


> Dear all,
> I'm not clear on a simple thing: on a Cubase setup with VEP slave(s), what is the advantage of disabling the midi tracks that route to a given VEP instance? Disabling a midi track does not give any performance advantage, and it does not disable/unload the specific articulation that is routed to within the VEP slave (thus reducing the load on the slave), does it?



Not midi tracks. Instruments tracks. Allows template to have many+ instruments loaded, configured, and ready to go with very little overhead as they are all disabled.


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## Vanni (Mar 9, 2017)

mjsalam said:


> Not midi tracks. Instruments tracks. Allows template to have many+ instruments loaded, configured, and ready to go with very little overhead as they are all disabled.



Ok clear, but if in that Instrument Track i have a VEP plugin loaded that would disable the corresponding VEP instance that is loaded right (VEP and its instance are loaded in a slave)?
Practical example in my template, that would disable i.e. all the "high strings", don't think i can take advantage of that feature (while it would be immensely useful to be able to disable the single tracks/articulations that i am not using).

Thanks,

Vanni


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## mjsalam (Mar 9, 2017)

Vanni said:


> Ok clear, but if in that Instrument Track i have a VEP plugin loaded that would disable the corresponding VEP instance that is loaded right (VEP and its instance are loaded in a slave)?
> Practical example in my template, that would disable i.e. all the "high strings", don't think i can take advantage of that feature (while it would be immensely useful to be able to disable the single tracks/articulations that i am not using).
> 
> Thanks,
> ...



I see it as an alternative to VEP._ (I accept that this only applies to a certain extent)._ The benefit from my perspective is the opportunity to balance convenience with flexibility. The convenience of a single system with your entire palette of sounds/instruments (almost) immediately available and preconfigured to your liking. And the flexibility of being able to use this template between different systems (in my case laptop/desktop). Of course there comes a point where a project may exceed the capabilities of your system at which point VEP re-enters the picture but in my case I find that it's not nearly as often as I might have anticipated.


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## chrisr (Mar 9, 2017)

I use both VEP and disabled tracks.

Some instruments/sounds in my template fall into the category of "not going to require changing/processing other than raise/lower amount of reverb send", for example standard instruments of the orchestra playing standard articulations. These are hosted in VEP and are always on and 'ready to go' in my template.

Other instruments in my template: all synths, guitars, drum kits, specialist sounds (eg. ethnic), rarely used instruments (sfx playing styles etc) and all Play instruments. Are either so rarely used as to be a waste of system resource, or require alterations and processing that may differ from cue to cue - particularly synths and guitars. These are included as disabled tracks in my template.

I could imagine moving over fully to disabled tracks in future templates, if the feature becomes rock solid.

best,
Chris


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