# Mid-Side M/S Processing



## synthpunk (Mar 22, 2016)

Sort of the mixing catch phrase of the month of late. Good explanation here. Please feel free to add info/comments/questions/etc.

https://www.izotope.com/en/community/blog/tips-tutorials/2014/06/what-is-midside-processing/


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## wst3 (Mar 23, 2016)

Not to be all picky and "get off my lawn"... mid/side processing is not something new! To their credit (and for the most part Izotope publications are pretty darned good) they don't claim to have invented it - unlike a couple other developers, at least one of which knew it was an old technique.

There is an popular saying among audio professionals: "The ancients are stealing our ideas!"

OK, enough curmudgeon mode...

Processing a L/R mix as Mid/Side offers all sorts of possibilities. I use it frequently for dynamics processing, and from time to time for equalization? I've also used it - to good effect - with modulation effects, delays, and even reverb (try reverb!!!)

All good fun!


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## Ethos (Mar 23, 2016)

For a long time in my mixes I've been using it to pull the bass more center. Low frequencies in stereo always seem to cause funny problems. Once you get that pulled into the middle, you tend to reach for that high pass filter a little less.


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## karelpsota (Mar 23, 2016)

What do people think about mono and low end?

From my experience (in stereo mixes):

The EDM world tends to mono everything under 120-160 Hz. Which makes sense for tuned kicks, bass lines and club speakers.
However, when I listen to some heavy orchestral music, the low end is still pretty wide. The cello, bass, percussion (and reverb) take so much stereo down there. The only thing that is mono is the probably the 0.1 from the pre-existing 5.1 sub.


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## neblix (Mar 23, 2016)

wst3 said:


> Not to be all picky and "get off my lawn"... mid/side processing is not something new! To their credit (and for the most part Izotope publications are pretty darned good) they don't claim to have invented it - unlike a couple other developers, at least one of which knew it was an old technique.
> 
> There is an popular saying among audio professionals: "The ancients are stealing our ideas!"
> 
> ...



Do you respond to any and all learning resources with "this isn't anything new"? Maybe consider there are some people who don't already know everything like you.  Even says right in the article: "The concept of Mid/Side Processing comes from a mic technique patented by Alan Bluemlein in 1934."


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## synthpunk (Mar 23, 2016)

Yep, never said it was new, just getting popular (and being added to many new and old plugins).



neblix said:


> Do you respond to any and all learning resources with "this isn't anything new"? Maybe consider there are some people who don't already know everything like you.  Even says right in the article: "The concept of Mid/Side Processing comes from a mic technique patented by Alan Bluemlein in 1934."


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## Ethos (Mar 23, 2016)

karelpsota said:


> What do people think about mono and low end?
> 
> From my experience (in stereo mixes):
> 
> ...


Yeah. Generally speaking anything below 80 goes to the sub. That's about the point where I like to start pulling it into the middle. Cellos and basses have so many harmonics reaching up into the "hundreds" of Hz that you can still get a nice wide stereo sound, but with a nice focused bottom end.


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## rayinstirling (Mar 24, 2016)

As important or probably more important than the crossover frequency when using a sub is 'not hearing the join'.
You just shouldn't ever detect it's (or their) existence when the relative output levels are set correctly.
For me, mid/side processing is used mainly to correct something that perhaps should have been picked up at the mixing stage.


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## Ethos (Mar 24, 2016)

Very true. I am also spoiled by my Rythmik D15SE subs. They are so musical and tight, they make everything sound amazing.


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## synthpunk (Mar 24, 2016)

I will start another thread on mono, as this is another subject I am studying and experimenting with.


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## synthpunk (Mar 24, 2016)

Free M/S Plugins:

Brainworx BX Solo
https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/bx_solo.html

Voxengo MSED
http://www.voxengo.com/product/msed/

Mid-Side processing can really help elements of your mix when you have pumping.


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## woodsdenis (Mar 24, 2016)

Check out the Dan Worrell Fabfilter vids on YT for loads of info.


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## KEnK (Mar 24, 2016)

Just wanna add my 2¢

I almost always use a bit of m/s eqing on my master bus. (not for orchestral though)
For just about any kind of 'pop', (meaning funk, rock, latin, jazz, even "world music")
I find that w/ judicious use I can tighten up the low end and expand the width w/o causing phase problems.

My go to tool has been the brainworx digital. Love the thing.
It took me a while to get a decent handle on not only the concept of m/s, but also the interface.
Now I'd miss it if I didn't have it.
I've also begun to get used to the SPL Passeq.
This one is also a strange interface,
but here it seems that you're getting the benefits of a Pultec type eq w/ the m/s possibilities.
I reach for the Voxengo MSED, just for testing my m/s balance-
it's very simple, I just use it for mutes and changing gain,
sometimes I'll use those features to route only mid or side to an aux.

I begun to explore m/s compression too-
This seems like a really useful concept I'm starting to use.

k


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## chimuelo (Mar 24, 2016)

Ethos said:


> For a long time in my mixes I've been using it to pull the bass more center. Low frequencies in stereo always seem to cause funny problems. Once you get that pulled into the middle, you tend to reach for that high pass filter a little less.



Exactly why Brainrox BX Digital Mid/Side Masreing EQ has the Mono Maker.
There are many uses for Mid/Side in live applications too.
I have a CPS Technology Stage Monitor that is a single cabinet.
I use Brainrox with it and it is the most incredible stereo sound I have.
Tight round lows from mono maker and when I use my hardware Leslie/Hammond module its hard to visualize this small cabinet has so much projection.

So if you are using 2.1 you are getting a real treat.
But even just a stereo nearfield set up you can really make it big wide and full...

I use the original DSP Version from 12 years ago.
Some plugs never need updating.
This is one of them.


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## emid (Mar 24, 2016)

Another recommendation for Bx Digital. It is an amazing tool for m/s technique. It takes time to learn but then get the job well done. As for the Pultec vibe I am blown away by the quality of Acustica Audio Cooltec EQP-1. Also Trinity Eq by the same company literally opens up the mixes - however EQP-1 has amazing warm/harmonic low end. The only complain is latency.


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## Dietz (Mar 24, 2016)

Ethos said:


> Yeah. Generally speaking anything below 80 goes to the sub. That's about the point where I like to start pulling it into the middle. Cellos and basses have so many harmonics reaching up into the "hundreds" of Hz that you can still get a nice wide stereo sound, but with a nice focused bottom end.


Could it be that you´re mixing up LFE and subwoofer?  

The former is a dedicated channel, with dedicated, ideally fully decorrelated content; this is what the .1-channel of a surround production is intended for. 

The latter is just the bass extension of a monitor setup. The bass-management will take care for the signals that get fed into it, not the .1 of a surround mix.

Kind regards,


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## Ethos (Mar 24, 2016)

I'm not mixing it up. I don't often mix for a dedicated LFE channel. When that's required I just hire someone to do the mix. But you can't rely, or even always predict, how your mix will be reproduced on the listener's - or even sometimes the theater's - end. So I like to pull around 80 and below to the middle. The mixes just sound better across the board.


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