# Berlin Orchestra: Created with Berklee - out now, with a special intro offer



## OrchestralTools (Sep 6, 2021)

Join us once again to hear what we've created with Berklee College of Music—we're announcing live on our YouTube channel.

Set a reminder, save the date, whatever you need to do.

Hope to see you all there!


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## oooooooooooooooooh (Sep 7, 2021)

So...did this get delayed?


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## Adam Takacs (Sep 7, 2021)

oooooooooooooooooh said:


> So...did this get delayed?


They write sept. 9 on facebook


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## oooooooooooooooooh (Sep 7, 2021)

Adam Takacs said:


> They write sept. 9 on facebook


Oh huh, wild.

Part of me is hoping it covers more extended uses of the orchestra...another part of me hopes it's a budget library so I don't have to spend the money, then I can just look forward to TSS and Infinite Strings.


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## Getsumen (Sep 7, 2021)

Curious as to what this will be. I'm guessing it probably won't be a sample library (If so I wonder what it'll be? A budget library would make Berlin Inspire a bit obsolete)

Maybe some tutorial series?


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## mscp (Sep 7, 2021)

Nice! I hope this largely benefits Berklee students. Cool!


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## OrchestralTools (Sep 8, 2021)

Hey everyone, premiere link now available:




Hope to see you all there!


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## Aldunate (Sep 8, 2021)

I'm sure it's a 40% discount on Berklee Tuition fees if you own an Orchestral Tools product.


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## Kabuki (Sep 8, 2021)

Should be a library, at least based on this -
https://www.berklee.edu/news/berklee-now/berklee-and-orchestral-tools-announce-partnership


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## Getsumen (Sep 8, 2021)

Kabuki said:


> Should be a library, at least based on this -
> https://www.berklee.edu/news/berklee-now/berklee-and-orchestral-tools-announce-partnership


Huh ok. I stand corrected. Didn't expect a library. Not exactly sure what that entails. Fully featured virtual orchestra, does that entail an all-in-one type of thing? What exactly entails an educational lib. Perhaps pre-arranged sections? Why am I asking these things when it'll be revealed tomorrow?


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## Toecutter (Sep 8, 2021)

Kabuki said:


> Should be a library, at least based on this -
> https://www.berklee.edu/news/berklee-now/berklee-and-orchestral-tools-announce-partnership


mmmm custom orchestral library specifically for education, intriguing! Thanks for the link!



Getsumen said:


> does that entail an all-in-one type of thing? What exactly entails an educational lib. Perhaps pre-arranged sections?


Wouldn't that be exactly like Inspire? When I read the article I thought about a custom Berlin series.


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## mscp (Sep 8, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> mmmm custom orchestral library specifically for education, intriguing! Thanks for the link!
> 
> 
> Wouldn't that be exactly like Inspire? When I read the article I thought about a custom Berlin series.


Won't be available to us. Only Berklee students, faculty, and staff.


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## yiph2 (Sep 8, 2021)

mscp said:


> Won't be available to us. Only Berklee students, faculty, and staff.


It will, Berklee people have a reduced price


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## mscp (Sep 8, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> It will, Berklee people have a reduced price


Where did you see it? I might have missed it.


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## yiph2 (Sep 8, 2021)




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## Composer 2021 (Sep 8, 2021)

I hope it's something similar to BBCSO Core.


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## gnapier (Sep 9, 2021)

mscp said:


> Won't be available to us. Only Berklee students, faculty, and staff.


It’s obvious you didn’t even read the information available at the link before you posted this.

Negativity as a statement of (incorrect) facts. Classic troll behavior.

If trolling was not the intention, please reflect on this.


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## Justin L. Franks (Sep 9, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> I hope it's something similar to BBCSO Core.


That would be awesome.


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## Futchibon (Sep 9, 2021)

Only 4 and a half hours to go, but it will be 2am Aussie time


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## yiph2 (Sep 9, 2021)

I'm pretty sure I heard somwhere that this library is selected instruments from OT's catalog. Don't quote me on that tho


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## tritonely (Sep 9, 2021)

A 'Berklee Inspire' that's like Berlin Inspire but with a few more articulations, dynamic layers and round robins would be great!


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## Futchibon (Sep 9, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> I'm pretty sure I heard somwhere that this library is selected instruments from OT's catalog. Don't quote me on that tho


Too late, quoted  

Do you remember where? That would be cool as there are heaps of libraries still to be released on Sine and to be able to buy some ala carte would be great.


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## yiph2 (Sep 9, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> Too late, quoted
> 
> Do you remember where? That would be cool as there are heaps of libraries still to be released on Sine and to be able to buy some ala carte would be great.


Just found it, it's:


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## Paul Jelfs (Sep 9, 2021)

I am guessing Education Subscription model - Select SINE libraries that will be available to students for a monthly subscription.


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## Kabuki (Sep 9, 2021)

tritonely said:


> A 'Berklee Inspire' that's like Berlin Inspire but with a few more articulations, dynamic layers and round robins would be great!


Yeah, kinda like the Berlin Series on Staffpad brought to DAWs maybe.


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## dcoscina (Sep 9, 2021)

A BBCSO styled version of OT Berlin Orchestra would be great! I love the selection on StaffPad and it would be great to have an all-in-one library with all of the symphonic choirs represented. Fingers crossed. Also hope it's not too too expensive.


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## Kabuki (Sep 9, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> A BBCSO styled version of OT Berlin Orchestra would be great! I love the selection on StaffPad and it would be great to have an all-in-one library with all of the symphonic choirs represented. Fingers crossed. Also hope it's not too too expensive.


This. Can't imagine the Inspires have been selling like hot cakes since the BBC dropped. An OT offering to match it would be great!


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## muziksculp (Sep 9, 2021)

Maybe a special discount for those who own their Berlin Series Libraries ? 

Still waiting for the SINE versions.


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## OrchestralTools (Sep 9, 2021)

Hey everyone, just a reminder for the premiere where all will be revealed: 

Hope to see you there, we'll be answering any questions on the chat, so feel free to come along and ask!

We're all set and really looking forward to sharing this with you.


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## rrichard63 (Sep 9, 2021)

With 11 minutes to go, here's my guess: they're going to jointly publish online courses on orchestration and/or composition with Berklee providing pedagogical expertise and OT providing cloud-based virtual instruments.


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## yiph2 (Sep 9, 2021)

Berlin Orchestra


A full symphony orchestra with meticulously sampled instruments, all in one place. Developed in collaboration with the world-renowned Berklee College of Music, Berlin Orchestra (by Berklee) gives you everything you need for serious orchestral composition and scoring. Construct individual parts...




www.orchestraltools.com


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## mopsiflopsi (Sep 9, 2021)

So it's essentially the StaffPad versions of the Berlin series but in SINE?


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## KEM (Sep 9, 2021)

What does Berklee have to do with this? I read the product page but I still don’t understand what exactly their involvement was


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## yiph2 (Sep 9, 2021)

KEM said:


> What does Berklee have to do with this? I read the product page but I still don’t understand what exactly their involvement was


I think it was designed specifically for their FS curriculum


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## mopsiflopsi (Sep 9, 2021)

KEM said:


> What does Berklee have to do with this? I read the product page but I still don’t understand what exactly their involvement was


OT gets to use the Berklee name in their marketing, Berklee gets a discount for students (just guessing here). It's a positive branding association for both sides.


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## Kabuki (Sep 9, 2021)

mopsiflopsi said:


> So it's essentially the StaffPad versions of the Berlin series but in SINE?


Nah those don't have full dynamics and RRs, this one does. Fewer articulations. More than enough to make great music imo.


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## dcoscina (Sep 9, 2021)

Kabuki said:


> Nah those don't have full dynamics and RRs, this one does. Fewer articulations. More than enough to make great music imo.


yeah just finished the walk thru. Sounds lovely. The harp and winds in particular knocked me out (mostly because I don't own the full Berlin versions, while I do have BS, BSS, BB, and BP).


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## Aitcpiano (Sep 9, 2021)

I love the look of this. Just wish their was an option to upgrade mics.


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## KEM (Sep 9, 2021)

mopsiflopsi said:


> OT gets to use the Berklee name in their marketing, Berklee gets a discount for students (just guessing here). It's a positive branding association for both sides.



Yeah I figured it was marketing, the product page makes it look like Berklee threw money at them to plaster their name all over it


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## Germain B (Sep 9, 2021)

It includes the upcoming fff layer for the brass.


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## muziksculp (Sep 9, 2021)

So, no special discount for those who own the Berlin Series libraries ?


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## tritonely (Sep 9, 2021)

For those who own a Berlin Inspire, OT said in the Youtube chat there will be a discount for owners of those for this library "soon" @OrchestralTools When can we expect that? After the intro price?


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## muziksculp (Sep 9, 2021)

I'm guessing the release of this library is another sign that the SINE versions of the Berlin series libraries is just around the corner.


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## Toecutter (Sep 9, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> When I read the article I thought about a custom Berlin series.


Yep, wasn't wrong XD 

Does mic merge work out of the box?


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## muziksculp (Sep 9, 2021)

What are the mic options of this library ?


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## tritonely (Sep 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> So, no special discount for those who own the Berlin Series libraries ?


OT said in the Youtube chat there will be a discount when you upgrade from this Berlin Orchestra to a main Berlin library, but not the other way around unfortunately


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## yiph2 (Sep 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> What are the mic options of this library ?


Just 1 mix


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## mopsiflopsi (Sep 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> What are the mic options of this library ?


Appears to be single mic.


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## muziksculp (Sep 9, 2021)

mopsiflopsi said:


> Appears to be single mic.


OK. Thanks

So, I will just have to wait for the SINE versions of the Berlin Series libraries to be released.


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## Kabuki (Sep 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> So, no special discount for those who own the Berlin Series libraries ?


I think I remember reading in the Youtube chat that they'll give upgrades from this one to the flagship libraries but not the other way around. Take a quick scroll through.


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## muziksculp (Sep 9, 2021)

tritonely said:


> OT said in the Youtube chat there will be a discount when you upgrade from this Berlin Orchestra to a main Berlin library, but not the other way around unfortunately


I already have quite a bit of the Berlin Series libraries (Kontakt) , so I will just pass on this library, and wait for the SINE versions to be released. Hopefully they will be released soon.


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## OrchestralTools (Sep 9, 2021)

KEM said:


> What does Berklee have to do with this? I read the product page but I still don’t understand what exactly their involvement was


Berklee designed the exact configuration of the whole library, based around the requirements for their film scoring and contemporary writing and production classes. Their input was essential, and meant that they got exactly the library that they needed.


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## Toecutter (Sep 9, 2021)

mopsiflopsi said:


> Appears to be single mic.


The product page mentions mic merging as one of Sine's features, I thought we'd get more microphones...


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## OrchestralTools (Sep 9, 2021)

tritonely said:


> For those who own a Berlin Inspire, OT said in the Youtube chat there will be a discount for owners of those for this library "soon" @OrchestralTools When can we expect that? After the intro price?


Hi - yes, the intro offer and the discounts don't play very nicely together, so we'll introduce the Inspire deals after the intro offer.


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## tritonely (Sep 9, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hi - yes, the intro offer and the discounts don't play very nicely together, so we'll introduce the Inspire deals after the intro offer.


Thanks for the indication!


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## KEM (Sep 9, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Berklee designed the exact configuration of the whole library, based around the requirements for their film scoring and contemporary writing and production classes. Their input was essential, and meant that they got exactly the library that they needed.



Ok now that makes more sense, thank you for the clarification


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## OrchestralTools (Sep 9, 2021)

KEM said:


> Ok now that makes more sense, thank you for the clarification


You're welcome!


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## muziksculp (Sep 9, 2021)

@OrchestralTools ,

Can you give us an update on the status of your Berlin Series libraries in SINE ? are we getting close ? 

Thanks.


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## OrchestralTools (Sep 9, 2021)

For anyone who hasn't seen it yet, we really recommend watching the walkthrough video:




Big thanks to Andreas Bjørck!


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## OrchestralTools (Sep 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> @OrchestralTools ,
> 
> Can you give us an update on the status of your Berlin Series libraries in SINE ? are we getting close ?
> 
> Thanks.


Hi @muziksculp !

Well, we can't give a date, but yes, we are getting very, very close.


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## muziksculp (Sep 9, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hi @muziksculp !
> 
> Well, we can't give a date, but yes, we are getting very, very close.


OK. That's good enough. (THANKS) 

I'm very happy to know that, and looking forward to their very, very, close release in SINE.


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## OrchestralTools (Sep 9, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> The product page mentions mic merging as one of Sine's features, I thought we'd get more microphones...


Hi @Toecutter - fair point. That's actually just our standard description for SINE that goes on most of our product pages, but yes, it could be misleading in this case. We'll update it!


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## Toecutter (Sep 9, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hi @Toecutter - fair point. That's actually just our standard description for SINE that goes on most of our product pages, but yes, it could be misleading in this case. We'll update it!


No worries, I got a bit confused but thanks for the clarification! Is it really a single mic? Tree?


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Sep 9, 2021)

KEM said:


> Yeah I figured it was marketing, the product page makes it look like Berklee threw money at them to plaster their name all over it


Berlin Orchestra and its release is a first step of a larger scaled collaboration with Berklee College of Music. We decided to start with the layout of a dedicated orchestral template for the curriculum and we're proud to continue with even more programs in the upcoming months.


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## muziksculp (Sep 9, 2021)

This is a very helpful chart :


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## yiph2 (Sep 9, 2021)

Hendrik-Schwarzer said:


> we're proud to continue with even more programs in the upcoming months.


I'm guessing with Glory Days ?


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## KEM (Sep 9, 2021)

Hendrik-Schwarzer said:


> Berlin Orchestra and its release is a first step of a larger scaled collaboration with Berklee College of Music. We decided to start with the layout of a dedicated orchestral template for the curriculum and we're proud to continue with even more programs in the upcoming months.



Well that’s very exciting!! I’ll be keeping a close eye on that for sure


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## tritonely (Sep 9, 2021)

@OrchestralTools Will the discount when you have Berlin Inspire be first deducted of the total price where you can have 40% edu discount of the rest of the price? Or won't the edu discount and Inspire discount be combined?


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## Aldunate (Sep 9, 2021)

Will it have playback templates and expression maps for Dorico or other notation software?


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## Mr Sakitumi (Sep 9, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> For anyone who hasn't seen it yet, we really recommend watching the walkthrough video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1 up on Paul, Andreas is “really excited!” 😊.
well done @OrchestralTools this is an amazing offering 🙌 a full, cohesive orchestra with all the dynamic layers and individual players.
the 1 mic mix sounds great, because of the 5 dynamic layers!
and it’s such a compact footprint with everything on offer 👏


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## Germain B (Sep 9, 2021)

Really nice demo track by Susanne Hardt !


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## mscp (Sep 9, 2021)

gnapier said:


> It’s obvious you didn’t even read the information available at the link before you posted this.
> 
> Negativity as a statement of (incorrect) facts. Classic troll behavior.
> 
> If trolling was not the intention, please reflect on this.


Thanks for being unnecessarily rude. It wasn't trolling, neither it was negative. I read the statement. Yes, my inference was clearly wrong. I highlighted the points to show you the basis of my inference. I'm not in the mood to discuss English semantics and literary devices with someone who clearly doesn't understand it, so I'll leave it at that. Don't bother replying it as I will not either.



> "Berklee College of Music and Orchestral Tools, a leading software company in the media scoring industry, announced a partnership today that *will provide the college’s Film Scoringand Contemporary Writing and Production departments with a unique orchestral sample library that will become part of the curriculum in the fall of 2021.* *The library will be customized to fit the college’s pedagogical needs and made available at a discount to all Berklee students, faculty, and staff.*
> 
> “The partnership between Berklee and Orchestral Tools is one that will benefit our faculty and students for years to come,” said Sean McMahon, chair of the Film Scoring Department at Berklee. “This incredible technology will provide a multitude of opportunities for collaboration, creativity, and innovation here at Berklee that we would not have otherwise—the ability to utilize a full virtual orchestra is more important now than ever before in an environment of remote teaching and learning. I am grateful to Orchestral Tools for this tremendous partnership, and look forward to what’s to come.”
> 
> ...



Congratulations Orchestral Tools for releasing another library. Again, I hope Berklee students highly benefit from this release. Unfortunately, I'll skip it since I already own the entire Berlin Series, but nevertheless, it is a great powerful tool, at a great price, geared towards people who need it. Cheers!


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## Markrs (Sep 9, 2021)

tritonely said:


> @OrchestralTools Will the discount when you have Berlin Inspire be first deducted of the total price where you can have 40% edu discount of the rest of the price? Or won't the edu discount and Inspire discount be combined?


It is 40% of the full price not the intro price


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## tritonely (Sep 9, 2021)

Markrs said:


> It is 40% of the full price not the intro price


Yes but OT said after the intro period there will be a discount for Inspire owners. When I'm buying for example Woodwinds soloists 1, I get the 40% discount after they deduct (a part of) the price of the Bass Clarinet that I already bought earlier on it's own. If that will be the case for the discount for BI that it will be first deducted of the full price and then the 40% edu discount will be charged for the rest of the price, I will wait till the intro price is over and the discounts for Inspire will count. If the discounts won't be together, I could buy it now (if I win the lottery). @OrchestralTools


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## RogiervG (Sep 9, 2021)

@Zanshin: yes, i noticed.. might be my tired eyes... i already had my previous post removed when i saw my oopsie...

anyway..

I would like to have a full walkthrough of each sound, in isolation, all articulations showcased in a meaningful way.
A score breakdown is not indepth enough.


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## Akarin (Sep 9, 2021)

"One Orchestra" 😳

That's ... ballsy!


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## RogiervG (Sep 9, 2021)

Akarin said:


> "One Orchestra" 😳
> 
> That's ... ballsy!


haha, but not from London this time, but from Berlin


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## Rudianos (Sep 9, 2021)

Looking forward to some reviews and demos. Its quite a chunk of change - and thinking I want the full Berlin package when it comes to Sine. But very interesting ... that intro offer ...


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## Composer 2021 (Sep 9, 2021)

Dear Orchestral Tools, there is no way you can compete against BBC Symphony Orchestra Core when this new Berlin Orchestra is 700 dollars. Most people get BBCSO Core for 220 dollars during a sale.


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## RogiervG (Sep 9, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> Dear Orchestral Tools, there is no way you can compete against BBC Symphony Orchestra Core when this new Berlin Orchestra is 700 dollars. Most people get BBCSO Core for 220 dollars during a sale.


who said they compete against that product? Maybe they want their samples to be used broader than the full berlin series are now used, aka giving access to their berlin series (samples are coming from the full series), for cheaper. Not everyone likes the sound of competing products you know..
Tldr: this way they can provide access to more customers, also students and hobbiests with tighter budgets, and for those who want, they can upgrade to the full series for an attractive offer etc etc.


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## ism (Sep 9, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> Dear Orchestral Tools, there is no way you can compete against BBC Symphony Orchestra Core when this new Berlin Orchestra is 700 dollars. Most people get BBCSO Core for 220 dollars during a sale.


Both seem very good value to me for what they are respectively - particular when you remember that BBCSO isn't as deeply sample as SSO or Berlin.

Although I guess there's the question of whether beginners need so many dynamic layers. But still. 

In any event, they each have such unique and distinctive sounds that I really doubt that they're competing on price at all.


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## Composer 2021 (Sep 9, 2021)

Normal price is higher than BBCSO Pro? You get one pic position with this versus _twenty_ on BBCSO Pro.


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## Aitcpiano (Sep 9, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> who said they compete against that product? Maybe they want their samples to be used broader than the full berlin series are now used. (more customers, also students and hobbiests with tighter budgets, later upgrading to the full series for an attractive offer etc etc).


It naturally going to get compared to BBCSO as they are both similar offerings. This also does seem to go into competition with the BBCSO. In my view BBCSO does seem like the better option as this new Berlin orchestra makes compromises in areas that are more important to me such as no runs legato/faster legato, which BBCSO has, no mic options and less articulations for a higher price.


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## RogiervG (Sep 9, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> Normal price is higher than BBCSO Pro? You get one pic position with this versus _twenty_ on BBCSO Pro.


so? Not all products are priced equal, not all products are made equal either. E.g. i find the programming of BBC SO not that great overal (i have core), tone is also in some sections a bit meh.
Sure, it's a nice package, but the quality is mediocre to good.. but what if for a few hundred more you can get good to amazing? (not saying BO is.. but i might be for those who like the sound and programming of OT above e.g. SA)


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## ism (Sep 9, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> Normal price is higher than BBCSO Pro? You get one pic position with this versus _twenty_ on BBCSO Pro.


But 5 dynamic layers vs. 3 . I wonder if this is the just the brass or if the strings have 5 layers also?


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## b_elliott (Sep 9, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> For anyone who hasn't seen it yet, we really recommend watching the walkthrough video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First of all the sound is absolutely gorgeous. I'd love to buy it but I actually don't compose with orchestral as yet. 

Bear with me on further need for clarification. I saw your response to KEM on how Berklee fits into the picture. I am still muddled -- is it really just one professor and OT marketing exchanging e-mails on how to repackage OT Berlin samples? Is it true that NO Berklee music students were recorded on the Berlin stage? No Berklee Music Engineering staff/students produced this product? Outside of some e-mails/Zoom calls, I don't get the Berklee connection.

Sorry to be dull witted; but, what am I missing?

Sincerely, Bill


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## RogiervG (Sep 9, 2021)

Aitcpiano said:


> It naturally going to get compared to BBCSO as they are both similar offerings. This also does seem to go into competition with the BBCSO. In my view BBCSO does seem like the better option as this new Berlin orchestra makes compromises in areas that are more important to me such as no runs legato/faster legato, which BBCSO has, no mic options and less articulations for a higher price.


I disagree. They might not want to compete against BBC SO, at all. They might be willing to provide an entry level Berlin series, just like VSL (synchron-ized) SE series is for the full packages. For those who love the berlin series sound (teldex) better. Having Berkely behind it, make it easier to do (student support etc).
Lower price doesn't mean competition goals against competitors per se. They might want everyone to eventually upgrade to the full thing (having more customers paying bigger amounts over time)
Nothing wrong with that! A product for each wallet so to speak.
BBC SO doesn't have bigger packages available (except for install size  ) e.g. only more mics and just a few instruments (not special).. but no new articulations e.g., better quality samples or more dynamic layers. (which you get with VSL and OT)


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## Emmanuel Jacob (Sep 9, 2021)

Greetings everyone. In case you are interested, I'm sharing my custom-made collection of instrument pictures for Berlin Orchestra. Those were made during my demo writing process for Berlin Orchestra, and I always find it helpful to see “what's going on” in the mixer panel with instrument pictures.

Note: I've included a Cubase project, running it, will prompt to import all track pictures at once, since Cubase doesn't bulk import track pictures, and I'm sure those PNG files could work in every DAW.

Here's a preview and Download below in *.zip file.


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## Aitcpiano (Sep 9, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> I disagree. They might not want to compete against BBC SO, at all. They might be willing to provide an entry level Berlin series, just like VSL SE is. For those who love the berlin series sound (teldex) better. Having Berkely behind it, make it easier to do (student support etc).
> Lower price doesn't mean competition goals against competitors per se.


They may not be directly aiming to compete against BBCSO but it is essentially going to get compared to BBCSO as they are such similar offerings.


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## daviddln (Sep 9, 2021)

I have just purchased the library but it doesn't appear in "My Licenses". Is anyone else having this problem?


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## richhickey (Sep 9, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> Dear Orchestral Tools, there is no way you can compete against BBC Symphony Orchestra Core when this new Berlin Orchestra is 700 dollars. Most people get BBCSO Core for 220 dollars during a sale.



At 91GB for one mix, this has _3 times the sampling_ of BBCSO. This manifests in more instruments and/or more dynamics. It's sampling, and the corresponding editing, that determines the cost of producing a library, and in many ways what you are getting for your money. Not more mics.


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## Aitcpiano (Sep 9, 2021)

For me, at the price range that it's at I would have liked some mic options and a few more articulation options in the strings/possible the options for a faster legato and portato. If It had that then I would have purchased it. Just the compromises made for this particular orchestral package are in areas I would want.


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## Casiquire (Sep 9, 2021)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> “Mic merging
> 
> Preserve your system resources: Fine-tune your mix using multiple mic positions, then merge into a single channel within the player.”


Given that there's only one mic, their claim of merging mics however you wish in SINE is accurate with this library lmao but I'm glad they're removing the text anyway.

This looks great! Wish i had this last year, but I'm glad to have the full libraries. I'd strongly suggest discounts for owners of the full library though, and then you can fill out your collection over time. I'd probably upgrade and i think a lot of others would too.

Anyway this came along a little late for me personally but it still looks and sounds awesome


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## mscp (Sep 9, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Berklee designed the exact configuration of the whole library, based around the requirements for their film scoring and contemporary writing and production classes. Their input was essential, and meant that they got exactly the library that they needed.


Exactly, hence the partnership. Crystal clear marketing, good PR, and release. Hope for the best!


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## Aitcpiano (Sep 9, 2021)

richhickey said:


> At 91GB for one mix, this has _3 times the sampling_ of BBCSO. This manifests in more instruments and/or more dynamics. It's sampling, and the corresponding editing, that determines the cost of producing a library, and in many ways what you are getting for your money. Not more mics.


But at same time your getting compromises in other things such as no mic options, less articulations and also only 1 leg type with no faster legato/runs legato options in the strings.


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## Markrs (Sep 9, 2021)

richhickey said:


> At 91GB for one mix, this has _3 times the sampling_ of BBCSO. This manifests in more instruments and/or more dynamics. It's sampling, and the corresponding editing, that determines the cost of producing a library, and in many ways what you are getting for your money. Not more mics.


It is 40gb compressed and BBCSO Core is just under 30gb compressed


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## ism (Sep 9, 2021)

Markrs said:


> It is 40gb compressed and BBCSO Core is just under 30gb compressed


And I'd further texture the size comparison noting that, as is typical between OT and SF, SF prioritized being a bit more broadly sampled (flautando etc) and OT being a bit more deeply sampled (up to 5 dynamic layers etc). 

So at some point you just need give up and get both. (Sigh)


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## kmm08 (Sep 9, 2021)

I don't really understand why they are selling a new version of the Berlin Orchestra for SINE player before actually updating the existing Berlin Series libraries first. Is the idea to try an get users who already own the full Berlin series to re-buy the same sounds in a smaller package? I've used Berlin series for years now and own most of them, however, this doesn't really seem like a good business strategy to me, unless you consider selling to new students (with little money to invest) more important than to your professional users.


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## richhickey (Sep 9, 2021)

ism said:


> And I'd further texture the size comparison noting that, as is typical between OT and SF, SF prioritized being a bit more broadly sampled (flautando etc) and OT being a bit more deeply sampled (up to 5).
> 
> So at some point you just need give up and get both. (Sigh)


There are so many more instruments in this it's really apples and oranges. If you want to write idiomatic multipart brass or woodwind pairs this has what you need.


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## Daren Audio (Sep 9, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> Dear Orchestral Tools, there is no way you can compete against BBC Symphony Orchestra Core when this new Berlin Orchestra is 700 dollars. Most people get BBCSO Core for 220 dollars during a sale.


They don't need to compete. This is part of the Berklee structured curriculum so students enrolled in this program will need to buy Berlin Orchestra just like the required textbooks. This is a guaranteed revenue stream. It's a primer. Once these students graduate, they more or less will upgrade to the full OT libraries. If regular customers buy the library, that's great too. It's a win-win.


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## KEM (Sep 9, 2021)

Daren Audio said:


> They don't need to compete. This is part of the Berklee structured curriculum so students enrolled in this program will need to buy Berlin Orchestra just like the required textbooks. This is a guaranteed revenue stream. It's a primer. Once these students graduate, they more or less will upgrade to the full OT libraries. If regular customers buy the library, that's great too. It's a win-win.



Another example of why I can’t stand higher education in the US, and music schools are among the biggest offenders. I don’t want to start an argument or derail this thread but I just had to get it out there how much it frustrates me


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## RogiervG (Sep 9, 2021)

kmm08 said:


> I don't really understand why they are selling a new version of the Berlin Orchestra for SINE player before actually updating the existing Berlin Series libraries first. Is the idea to try an get users who already own the full Berlin series to re-buy the same sounds in a smaller package? I've used Berlin series for years now and own most of them, however, this doesn't really seem like a good business strategy to me, unless you consider selling to new students (with little money to invest) more important than to your professional users.


It's the other way round. They want people to become berlin series users/customers.. And offering an introduction product, makes it reachable for a whole lot more people. (taken from the same samples, lesser dynamics, lesser articulations and lesser mics: but still the berlin sound for less money)
Once they are hooked, they can upgrade for attractive prices to the full berlin series.

The same situation is with VSL, their Special editions are (also made of the sample from the big packages, but more limited in several things) introduction products, and you can upgrade to the full series for cheaper.


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## Fidelity (Sep 9, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> It's the other way round. They want people to become berlin series users/customers.. And offering an introduction product, makes it reachable for a whole lot more people. (taken from the same samples, lesser dynamics, lesser articulations and lesser mics: but still the berlin sound for less money)
> Once they are hooked, they can upgrade for attractive prices to the full berlin series.
> 
> The same situation is with VSL, their Special editions are (also made of the sample from the big packages, but more limited in several things), and you can upgrade for cheaper because you won't pay for what you have already. Not sure OT let's not pay twice for the same sample though... since the upgrade pricing is not known yet.


The a-la-carte store already offers that, though. It also offers microtransaction and "whoops where'd my wallet go" mentality, but that's a separate thread in and of itself.


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## RogiervG (Sep 9, 2021)

Fidelity said:


> The a-la-carte store already offers that, though. It also offers microtransaction and "whoops where'd my wallet go" mentality, but that's a separate thread in and of itself.


Al la carte is not suitable for all scenarios though.. sometimes you want an all inclusive package (whole orchestra), not just one instrument here and there.. also ala carte is more expensive overall (if you buy all instruments for the full orchestra offering)


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## wlinart (Sep 9, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> It's the other way round. They want people to become berlin series users/customers.. And offering an introduction product, makes it reachable for a whole lot more people. (taken from the same samples, lesser dynamics, lesser articulations and lesser mics: but still the berlin sound for less money)
> Once they are hooked, they can upgrade for attractive prices to the full berlin series.
> 
> The same situation is with VSL, their Special editions are (also made of the sample from the big packages, but more limited in several things) introduction products, and you can upgrade for cheaper because you won't pay for what you have already. Not sure OT let's not pay twice for the same sample though... since the upgrade pricing is not known yet.


They already commented that there won't be a crossgrade price from the main berlin series to the berklee "light" version.

I also think that's a shame. I would love this compact version on my laptop, with still all the instruments and just the basic articulations. But i'm not planning on paying €700+ for it


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## richhickey (Sep 9, 2021)

The demos sound excellent (although I wish the demo page would transition from one demo to the next rather than loop each one until you realize you've listened to the same thing for 5 minutes, having to babysit the whole process).

The dynamics in particular are a standout. Still itching for the port of the rest of the Berlin Series...


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## RogiervG (Sep 9, 2021)

wlinart said:


> They already commented that there won't be a crossgrade price from the main berlin series to the berklee "light" version.


No no... It's geared for people who DON'T have the full berlin series, not for the who HAVE.  Hence the berkeley joint venture.. Students being poor etc...



wlinart said:


> I also think that's a shame. I would love this compact version on my laptop, with still all the instruments and just the basic articulations. But i'm not planning on paying €700+ for it


it's easier to shelf out 700 instead of 4K excl. vat (for in essence the berlin series, with some limitations) (in contrast: bbc so pro is almost 1000 (incl vat) and VSL SE vol1 and 2 are combined 600-ish incl. vat), so this price is not too far off imho
If the sound and abilities suit the need, is up to the buyer..


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## Composer 2021 (Sep 9, 2021)

How much of a discount do we get toward the full Berlin series sections if we get Berlin Orchestra?


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## Mr Sakitumi (Sep 9, 2021)

I wonder what the ram footprint size will be with a fully loaded template of this orchestra?
btw Benny Oschmann’s demo is such a standout for me!
he goes from a type of John Barry score to John Williams (where the dynamics really shine out)


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## RogiervG (Sep 9, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> How much of a discount do we get toward the full Berlin series sections if we get Berlin Orchestra.


Unknown as of yet.. "coming soon" states the website


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## davidanthony (Sep 9, 2021)

b_elliott said:


> I don't get the Berklee connection.


Berklee has a strong brand in the music education space. Orchestral Tools now shares in a bit of that brand recognition by licensing the Berklee name for use on this suite. 

In exchange, Berklee gets a set of custom tools that help them continue to educate and strengthen their own brand.

Marketing wins for both parties, and, if the product is good, a win for everyone else! Congrats on the release OT.


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## dcoscina (Sep 9, 2021)

Not all libraries are for all people. This release was designed for Berklee students. If some folks think it's too cost prohibitive, there is always competitors' libraries out there for you. I do like the idea of the all-in-one approach for laptop composing mind you, even though I have a few of the full Berlin libraries. 

OT have mentioned there will be discounts for BOI users so it appears that they are also trying to accommodate various demographics.


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## Germain B (Sep 9, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> It's the other way round. They want people to become berlin series users/customers.. And offering an introduction product, makes it reachable for a whole lot more people. (taken from the same samples, lesser dynamics, lesser articulations and lesser mics: but still the berlin sound for less money)


OT said in the chat of the premiere that they didn't cut on dynamics and round robins from the original Berlin's libraries.


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## wlinart (Sep 9, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> it's easier to shelf out 700 instead of 4K excl. vat (for in essence the berlin series, with some limitations) (in contrast: bbc so pro is almost 1000 (incl vat) and VSL SE vol1 and 2 are combined 600-ish incl. vat), so this price is not too far off imho
> If the sound and abilities suit the need, is up to the buyer..


Yeah, sure, that's an amazing price. I i didn't already had the full version, i would jump on that chance. Now, i do want the library as a compact library to use on my laptop, for when my vepro server isn't near. But I was hoping that for current users there would be a discount as well, to not pay twice for the same samples


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## OleJoergensen (Sep 9, 2021)

Im soooo slooow, I thought it was a new library recorded with students from Berkley….
ha ha old fool . I wondered why it was called Berlin orcehstra, when recorded with American musician )…
So its like old vine on new bottles….maybe more functional bottles…


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## CT (Sep 9, 2021)

Given the dynamic detail and all the individual section players, I think it's a pretty fair price. Articulations are quite basic but sometimes that's all you need. Interesting! I'll have to listen to demos. If the single mix is to my taste, this might be a worthwhile investment along with some other Teldex stuff.


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## RogiervG (Sep 9, 2021)

Germain B said:


> OT said in the chat of the premiere that they didn't cut on dynamics and round robins from the original Berlin's libraries.


ok, well even better!  considering


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## RogiervG (Sep 9, 2021)

i need more demos and end user reviews.. indepth walkthroughs etc.. the pro's and cons in the hands of end users so to speak. However, for now, i keep it on my radar... i just might... well... pull the trigger before the intro pricing ends.. Having Spitfire Audio BBC SO (core) and Vienna Symphonic library Special Edition volume 1 (with the plus addon), and some other orchestra's (Chris hein, East West Hollywood Orchestra Diamond, Some libs sectional libs from here and there), more sonic options in the orchestral spectrum AND with the prospect of a "cheap" buy into the full Berlin series (upgrade path).. hmm tempting i think...
but as said... i await reviews... first.

I still hate it..i didn't pull the trigger on the 50% discount deal last year on the (rather expensive) full Berlin series *sobs*, especially when the last time they did that discount was in 2016! now i need to wait multiple years again for that same discount (unless the upgrade path from BO is cheaper)


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## Pier (Sep 9, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> Students being poor etc...


I seriously doubt someone without means would enroll in Berklee as it is one of the most expensive music schools in the world.

Spending say $1k in software is nothing compared to the money students spend on a complete Berklee course.


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## eakwarren (Sep 9, 2021)

Emmanuel Jacob said:


> Greetings everyone. In case you are interested, I'm sharing my custom-made collection of instrument pictures for Berlin Orchestra. Those were made during my demo writing process for Berlin Orchestra, and I always find it helpful to see “what's going on” in the mixer panel with instrument pictures.
> 
> Note: I've included a Cubase project, running it, will prompt to import all track pictures at once, since Cubase doesn't bulk import track pictures, and I'm sure those PNG files could work in every DAW.
> 
> Here's a preview and Download below in *.zip file.


Thank you for these beautiful icons @Emmanuel Jacob! Any chance you could share PNGs without the BO corner triangles? I'd love to use these instead of the black pencil-thin BBCSO icons that are difficult to see in Logic's mixer.


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## Saxer (Sep 9, 2021)

Nice package, especially the single instruments. It's made for writers with a score setup in mind. I would have been totally happy owning this library 30 years ago (and a computer that could handle it).

But I don't buy it. I already payed for the same samples three times (Inspire 1&2, Berlin Series, StaffPad). So I wait for Berlin Sine.


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## prodigalson (Sep 9, 2021)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I wonder why OT decided against offering a discount to owners of the full Berlin series. Wouldn’t that be a slam dunk opportunity for extra sales?
> 
> Maybe they’re counting on that these people will go ahead and buy this new cut down version anyway.


I'm not sure why anyone who already owns the full Berlin series would buy this. Why would you pay almost 700 euro for less layers, less articulations, less mics, less instruments than you already have?


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Sep 9, 2021)

prodigalson said:


> I'm not sure why anyone who already owns the full Berlin series would buy this. Why would you pay almost 700 euro for less layers, less articulations, less mics, less instruments than you already have?


I was thinking for laptop use, sketching etc. But yeah, it’s a lot of money!


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## wlinart (Sep 9, 2021)

prodigalson said:


> I'm not sure why anyone who already owns the full Berlin series would buy this. Why would you pay almost 700 euro for less layers, less articulations, less mics, less instruments than you already have?


to have a compact laptop version, to have an easier to use package in quick situtions,... for example.
But yeah, i don't want t pay 700€ for that


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## RogiervG (Sep 9, 2021)

Pier said:


> I seriously doubt someone without means would enroll in Berklee as it is one of the most expensive music schools in the world.
> 
> Spending say $1k in software is nothing compared to the money students spend on a complete Berklee course.


i wasn't talking about berkely students per se. just students in general


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## micrologus (Sep 9, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hi @muziksculp !
> 
> Well, we can't give a date, but yes, we are getting very, very close.


Berlin Series libraries in SINE: very very close.  @wlinart : then you can download just what you need.


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## Daren Audio (Sep 9, 2021)

b_elliott said:


> I don't get the Berklee connection.





davidanthony said:


> Berklee has a strong brand in the music education space. Orchestral Tools now shares in a bit of that brand recognition by licensing the Berklee name for use on this suite.
> 
> In exchange, Berklee gets a set of custom tools that help them continue to educate and strengthen their own brand.
> 
> Marketing wins for both parties, and, if the product is good, a win for everyone else! Congrats on the release OT.



If you’re not familiar with Berklee’s reputation, you’re more likely familiar with the top-tier talent alumni that graduated or attended Berklee. They span from Grammy, Emmy, Golden Globe and Academy (Oscars) award-winning & nominated artists, songwriters, composers, producers and sound engineers, etc. Here’s a short-list of notables:

Alan Silvestri (Avengers, Back To The Future, Forest Gump)
Howard Shore (Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit Trilogy)
Pinar Toprak (Marvel’s Captain Marvel, DC's Krypton & Stargirl)
John Mayer
Charlie Puth
Steven Tyler (Aerosmith)
Melissa Etheridge
Quincy Jones
Tony Bennett
Psy (Gangnam Style)
Chaka Khan
Meghan Trainor
Lisa Loeb
Bruce Hornsby
Joe Satriani
Branford Marsalis
BT
Ramin Djawadi (Iron Man, Pacific Rim, HBO’s Game of Thrones S3, Westworld)
Simply put: Berklee pumps out the hitmakers! ....And now with Orchestral Tools! With that said, looking forward to hearing the next generation of graduate hitmakers in the music, tv & film industry!


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## Aldunate (Sep 9, 2021)

@OrchestralTools Are there plans for integration with notation software?


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## Composer 2021 (Sep 9, 2021)

Aldunate said:


> @OrchestralTools Are there plans for integration with notation software?


Yeah, this would win me over. StaffPad integration is cool but it is not good with detecting my handwriting. Full integration with Finale from any sample company would be a miracle for me.


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## Justin L. Franks (Sep 9, 2021)

BBCSO Core: Cheaper, more articulations.
Berlin Orchestra: More dynamic layers, all the individual players along with the full sections.

Each definitely has its place.

I do think that owners of the full Berlin suite really should be given this product. It would be useful to have a "lite" version for less-powerful laptops. Just like if you buy BBCSO Pro, you also get BBCSO Core.


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## holywilly (Sep 9, 2021)

@OrchestralTools the MIX from Berlin Orchestra is the Tree mix from Berlin Series or it's a mix combining all the available mics from Berlin Series?


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## Aitcpiano (Sep 9, 2021)

holywilly said:


> @OrchestralTools the MIX from Berlin Orchestra is the Tree mix from Berlin Series or it's a mix combining all the available mics from Berlin Series?


I think it is a mix of tree and close but not 100 percent on that.


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## Justin L. Franks (Sep 9, 2021)

If it was just the tree mic, wouldn't it just be labeled as "Tree", not "Mix"?


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## emilio_n (Sep 9, 2021)

Looks interesting. I am wondering how will be the discount to Berlin Series if you get the Berlin Orchestra now.


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## Ricgus3 (Sep 9, 2021)

Damn, even with the 40% off Edu discount I have it comes out at 629€ with the tax (25%). As a owner of nucleus I don’t need another full orchestra. Even though this sounds amazing! But at this price, for me as a teacher, it is a bit steep. But it sounds amazing!


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## lgmcben (Sep 9, 2021)

prodigalson said:


> I'm not sure why anyone who already owns the full Berlin series would buy this. Why would you pay almost 700 euro for less layers, less articulations, less mics, less instruments than you already have?


More space for porn, obviously.


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## Aitcpiano (Sep 9, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> Looks interesting. I am wondering how will be the discount to Berlin Series if you get the Berlin Orchestra now.


I'd imagine It won't be cheap to upgrade to the full Berlin series. Unless they are planning on bundling the whole Berlin series together at a big discount.


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## Manaberry (Sep 9, 2021)

Aitcpiano said:


> I think it is a mix of tree and close but not 100 percent on that.


It is.


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## Jorgakis (Sep 10, 2021)

In the Benny Oschmann example(great piece as always): I really love how the brass is piercing through, the trumpets sound great. I wonder if it's due to the mixing or the library itself, but I'd love to get the brass only :D. Also wonder if it's worth checking the old Berlin Brass out now...But great sound overall, wish this would've existed earlier


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## Emmanuel Jacob (Sep 10, 2021)

eakwarren said:


> Thank you for these beautiful icons @Emmanuel Jacob! Any chance you could share PNGs without the BO corner triangles? I'd love to use these instead of the black pencil-thin BBCSO icons that are difficult to see in Logic's mixer.


Hey...
Take a look at this post, since I have included some “unlabeled” collections in v1. See if they suit you, but I think I can easily replace the triangles with BBC and share it in a few days. To my eyes, triangles, visually elevate the icons.


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## b_elliott (Sep 10, 2021)

Daren Audio said:


> If you’re not familiar with Berklee’s reputation, you’re more likely familiar with the top-tier talent alumni that graduated or attended Berklee. They span from Grammy, Emmy, Golden Globe and Academy (Oscars) award-winning & nominated artists, songwriters, composers, producers and sound engineers, etc. Here’s a short-list of notables:


I am familiar with Berklee + OT. No probs with either biz. 
Simply put, all I got from yesterday's release was OT moved into Berklee: it's a marketing re-positioning; not a Berklee product release. 
But, ya, should be fun to hear great tunes down the road.


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## Denkii (Sep 10, 2021)

They missed the opportunity to call it the Berklin Orchestra.
Berkleen Orchestra?
Ahh so many options...

Jokes aside: I like the idea. If I was young and wanted to get into this stuff, I assume it would be very tempting. Compared to Spitfire's offering it is rather expensive and it's a shame that you cannot evaluate the two before you commit to either one so I would assume that naturally more people will gravitate towards SA. Then again if you (or your parents) have the funds to put you in Berklee, you probably don't care about the extra few hundred Dollars.
And due to the nature of the product it makes total sense for everyone who is enrolled.
For everyone else though...I think it is much harder to justify without any means of trying it out first.
The upgrade paths and possibilities will need to be communicated in a clearer manner, too imho.
They are a big part of the USP for this one.

^
I want to make it clear that that's no rant against anyone, just my opinion.


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## Kabuki (Sep 10, 2021)

Denkii said:


> They missed the opportunity to call it the Berklin Orchestra.
> Berkleen Orchestra?
> Ahh so many options...


Berlin Berklee Collaboration Symphony Orchestra. We could even abbreviate it. :D


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## RogiervG (Sep 10, 2021)

Berklee, berkeley.. ugh.. sounding the same if saying it fast.. i always mix them up on how to write it.

Anyway...

Berklee Orchestral Tools Joint Venture Berlin Series Based Compact Orchestra
BOTJVBSBCO (try to remember that... ha!)


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## Futchibon (Sep 10, 2021)

Disappointing there are no ala cart options for this. Does anyone know if the Sine versions of BB and BS will have ala carte options?


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## Andreas Bjorck (Sep 10, 2021)

Mr Sakitumi said:


> I wonder what the ram footprint size will be with a fully loaded template of this orchestra?
> btw Benny Oschmann’s demo is such a standout for me!
> he goes from a type of John Barry score to John Williams (where the dynamics really shine out)


For my demo, the RAM footprint was ~22-23GB. That's every single patch in the library loaded, but I also loaded quite a few of the instruments twice, though (for various layering/divisi stuff). It's about 70-80 individual instances of SINE, so if I had not done all the doubling, and used SINE multi-timbrally, it would of course be significantly less (not sure how much RAM an empty SINE instance uses). That's all with the default preload buffer setting too, btw.


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## davidson (Sep 10, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> Disappointing there are no ala cart options for this. Does anyone know if the Sine versions of BB and BS will have ala carte options?


Remember back when sine was first announced and we all thought it was going to be amazing to purchase single instruments as and when we needed them


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## b_elliott (Sep 10, 2021)

Denkii said:


> They missed the opportunity to call it the Berklin Orchestra.
> Berkleen Orchestra?
> Ahh so many options...


Ha ha, likely the kids will name it BerBer or Brr once winter sets in Boston. Sorry. 
Now back to my coffee to wake up.


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Sep 10, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> BBCSO Core: Cheaper, more articulations.
> Berlin Orchestra: More dynamic layers, all the individual players along with the full sections.
> 
> Each definitely has its place.


Fully get the comparisons with other full orchestra products.

Berlin Orchestra is our take on a full orchestra solution and as you see it led us to different decisions in its creation. Together with Berklee we compiled Berlin Orchestra with the idea to have a full representation of a symphony orchestra with all its containing instruments at an attention to detail in regards of dynamic ranges, round robins, playability and individual voicings.

We see Berlin Orchestra in a larger scope with the ability to extend this complete set of orchestral instruments with full instruments from the Berlin Series, and all the collections we recorded at Teldex.
The list of collections and instruments all recorded consistently in the same space among by far to the most comprehensive ones. And this gives you the ability to build your personal palette of instruments and sections or specific articulations that meets your approach of writing for orchestra. That’s why by design the Berlin Series is so modular with its individual instruments available soon.
Even unusual instruments like baroque violins, various choral ensembles or the 12 horn section from Tom Holkenborg’s Brass can be added to extend Berlin Orchestra. And all that consistently recorded at the same room with a uniform balanced sound.
In this context, Berlin Orchestra is the perfect entry point into the most modular and consistent virtual orchestra you can find.

-Hendrik


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## Paul Jelfs (Sep 10, 2021)

I think this library is aimed at students that are studying Orchestration/ Production as a Degree, so having all the divisi instruments will be useful for them. 

I am sure it will have it will do just fine, even with BBC SO core, because of the above. That said, if it under performs I am sure that O.T. will be aware and may reduce the price. 

For a STUDENT it is the cheapest complete Orchestral library with full divisi available in Brass + WW unless I am mistaken ? (I will be mistaken!)


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## szczaw (Sep 10, 2021)

Sine doesn't have sample purging, right ? How much ram does the entire library occupy ?


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## Germain B (Sep 10, 2021)

szczaw said:


> Sine doesn't have sample purging, right ? How much ram does the entire library occupy ?


@Andreas Bjorck answered to your question here :




__





Berlin Orchestra: Created with Berklee - out now, with a special intro offer


If you’re not familiar with Berklee’s reputation, you’re more likely familiar with the top-tier talent alumni that graduated or attended Berklee. They span from Grammy, Emmy, Golden Globe and Academy (Oscars) award-winning & nominated artists, songwriters, composers, producers and sound...




vi-control.net


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## dzilizzi (Sep 10, 2021)

I think it's a great idea, and if I didn't already have the four sections plus some of the extensions, I would probably be interested.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Sep 10, 2021)

I like the idea, but it is disappointing that owners of one or more of the full Berlin series have no crossgrade option. For example, as an owner of BWW and future owner of Berlin Brass, I would've liked to purchase this - without paying twice for the same samples. I will likely never buy Berlin Percussion or Berlin Strings as standalone purchases given what I already own. Unfortunately there is no option for customers like myself except to re-purchase samples we've already paid for just to get the lite version of libraries we didn't own and were likely not going to own. If anything, having a cross grade option and ability to try the cut down parts of Berlin series I don't own may have convinced me to purchase the full set.


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## szczaw (Sep 10, 2021)

Is it balanced ?


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## dzilizzi (Sep 10, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I like the idea, but it is disappointing that owners of one or more of the full Berlin series have no crossgrade option. For example, as an owner of BWW and future owner of Berlin Brass, I would've liked to purchase this - without paying twice for the same samples. I will likely never buy Berlin Percussion or Berlin Strings as standalone purchases given what I already own. Unfortunately there is no option for customers like myself except to re-purchase samples we've already paid for just to get the lite version of libraries we didn't own and were likely not going to own. If anything, having a cross grade option and ability to try the cut down parts of Berlin series I don't own may have convinced me to purchase the full set.


I read all the way to the bottom. It looks like there might eventually be a crossgrade option for Berlin owners. Just not yet. I bought BWW before Sine/Account tracking. It doesn't always show up as an "owned" library in my account. So they may need to fix things for those who have owned Berlin for a while.

Edit: From the site:
The essence of the Berlin Series​Berlin Orchestra: Created with Berklee is derived from the acclaimed Berlin Series—the most comprehensive, integrated collection of sampled orchestral instruments available. All Berlin Series libraries were recorded with the finest musicians, in situ, on the same Teldex Scoring Stage in Berlin. Designed for complete consistency across the series, all Berlin Series libraries play together perfectly, enabling you to seamlessly incorporate new sounds and customize your virtual orchestra for each project.

*Coming soon: All Berlin Orchestra owners will qualify for special pricing on the main Berlin Series collections.*


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## Aldunate (Sep 10, 2021)

@Hendrik-Schwarzer 
I see that at the time, you are not offering mappings for notation software.
Is this planned as an add-on as Spitfire and VSL do?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Sep 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I read all the way to the bottom. It looks like there might eventually be a crossgrade option for Berlin owners. Just not yet. I bought BWW before Sine/Account tracking. It doesn't always show up as an "owned" library in my account. So they may need to fix things for those who have owned Berlin for a while.
> 
> Edit: From the site:
> The essence of the Berlin Series​Berlin Orchestra: Created with Berklee is derived from the acclaimed Berlin Series—the most comprehensive, integrated collection of sampled orchestral instruments available. All Berlin Series libraries were recorded with the finest musicians, in situ, on the same Teldex Scoring Stage in Berlin. Designed for complete consistency across the series, all Berlin Series libraries play together perfectly, enabling you to seamlessly incorporate new sounds and customize your virtual orchestra for each project.
> ...


Unfortunately, it was asked during the live stream and OT said there would not be any crossgrade to Berlin Orchestra for those that own any of the Berlin full libraries - only the other way (as you have quoted from the site). It is an unfortunate decision.


----------



## dzilizzi (Sep 10, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Unfortunately, it was asked during the live stream and OT said there would not be any crossgrade to Berlin Orchestra for those that own any of the Berlin full libraries - only the other way (as you have quoted from the site). It is an unfortunate decision.


Reading it again, I'm worried it means we don't get the "free" crossgrade to the Sine version when it comes out. They are going to change the name?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Sep 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Reading it again, I'm worried it means we don't get the "free" crossgrade to the Sine version when it comes out. They are going to change the name?


I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to, but just for clarity:

- Berlin Orchestra and the individual Berlin series (like Woodwinds, Brass, Strings, etc) are _separate products_
- Berlin Orchestra is already in SINE
- If you own a Kontakt-version of the individual Berlin series, you should still get the free SINE upgrade once those are available (TBD when, but OT said soon)
- Purchasing Berlin Orchestra will allow you to cross-grade to the full individual Berlin series libraries at a discount (TBD what that is)
- Owning the individual Berlin series does not qualify you for any discount or crossgrade to Berlin Orchestra.

Hope that clears things up.


----------



## dzilizzi (Sep 10, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to, but just for clarity:
> 
> - Berlin Orchestra and the individual Berlin series (like Woodwinds, Brass, Strings, etc) are _separate products_
> - Berlin Orchestra is already in SINE
> ...


Got it. Not how it reads to me, but OT does make things confusing at times.


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## Getsumen (Sep 10, 2021)

davidson said:


> Remember back when sine was first announced and we all thought it was going to be amazing to purchase single instruments as and when we needed them


Gotta wait until the main Berlin Series I suppose


----------



## Futchibon (Sep 10, 2021)

Hendrik-Schwarzer said:


> That’s why by design the Berlin Series is so modular with its individual instruments available soon.


This is exciting!


----------



## Soundbed (Sep 10, 2021)

szczaw said:


> Sine doesn't have sample purging, right ?


My experience is after you load [something] you can purge it. 

But if you want to use any part of it, it reloads the entire [something]. 

That [something] might be one articulation with three mics or all articulations with one mic or whatever.

It all loads, it all gets purged, it all gets reloaded when you play one note.

Now, if you want to reduce the RAM footprint, you can — in libs with multiple mic positions — merge mics, because that is how SINE attempts to reduce one’s RAM footprint.


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## Loïc D (Sep 10, 2021)

You can also lower preload buffer to dramatically reduce RAM usage.


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## bbrylow (Sep 10, 2021)

Based on the fact that there’s only one microphone position available, for me this is a dealbreaker at that price - no matter what the cross grade options are in the future. I’ll stick with Spitfire


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## Soundbed (Sep 10, 2021)

Loïc D said:


> You can also lower preload buffer to dramatically reduce RAM usage.


Good point!


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## mscp (Sep 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Reading it again, I'm worried it means we don't get the "free" crossgrade to the Sine version when it comes out. They are going to change the name?


I don't think they'd do that. If they did it for the Arks, they will for the Berlin Series. They're professionals.


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## Alexartist (Sep 10, 2021)

Hendrik-Schwarzer said:


> Полностью сравните с другими полными оркестровыми продуктами.
> 
> Berlin Orchestra - это наш подход к полноценному оркестровому решению, и, как вы видите, он привел нас к различным решениям при его создании. Вместе с Berklee мы собрали Берлинский оркестр с идеей получить полное представление о симфоническом оркестре со всеми содержащимися в нем инструментами с вниманием к деталям в отношении динамических диапазонов, круговых алгоритмов, играбельности и индивидуального голоса.
> 
> ...


Adding new tools individually when you need them is very convenient, yes! But what about one microphone position? Or will there be new microphone positions for the Berlin Orchestra later?


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## Justin L. Franks (Sep 11, 2021)

Alexartist said:


> Adding new tools individually, then when you need them - it's very convenient, yes! But what about just one microphone position? Or will there be new microphone positions for the Berlin Orchestra later?


They already exist. In the individual Berlin libraries.

Why the huge text?


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## Casiquire (Sep 11, 2021)

Alexartist said:


> Adding new tools individually, then when you need them - it's very convenient, yes! But what about just one microphone position? Or will there be new microphone positions for the Berlin Orchestra later?​


This was designed with orchestration students in mind. It makes sense for all of them to be using one standard microphone position while learning to balance an orchestra. They can upgrade to the full libraries later if they want


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## Drundfunk (Sep 11, 2021)

I don't understand you guys sometimes. This is a stripped-down all-in-one-package of the Berlin stuff for a fraction of the price. Either that's useful to you or it isn't. I don't really get the fuzz about it. It's a great product. Of course you won't get all the articulations and mic positions as in the full thing. What would be the point of that? You are not supposed to get the whole Berlin series just cheaper. That wouldn't make any sense from a business perspective.... . Keep doing what you doing OT and please stay long in business because I honestly have no idea how to back up my SINE libraries. The folders are just numbers........


----------



## Evans (Sep 11, 2021)

Drundfunk said:


> I honestly have no idea how to backup my SINE libraries. The folders are just numbers.......


I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate this.


----------



## Marsen (Sep 11, 2021)

Evans said:


> I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate this.


Me too!


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## Toecutter (Sep 11, 2021)

@OrchestralTools @Hendrik-Schwarzer @OT_Tobias I'm tagging all of you to BEG again (asked before) that you include a playlist feature to your webpage... I've been listening to the Nils Neuman track for over 20 minutes now while browsing  I just want to press play and forget, have the demos as background music, get to know your new products subconsciously while doing my online business... please ask your web guy to add a simple track jump instead of looping the same 1 minute forever. Good for the first composer on the list tho XD


----------



## Drundfunk (Sep 11, 2021)

Evans said:


> I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate this.


The fact that we can't choose the complete installation path but just the drive is another .


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Sep 11, 2021)

Drundfunk said:


> I don't understand you guys sometimes. This is a stripped-down all-in-one-package of the Berlin stuff for a fraction of the price. Either that's useful to you or it isn't. I don't really get the fuzz about it. It's a great product. Of course you won't get all the articulations and mic positions as in the full thing. What would be the point of that? You are not supposed to get the whole Berlin series just cheaper. That wouldn't make any sense from a business perspective.... . Keep doing what you doing OT and please stay long in business because I honestly have no idea how to back up my SINE libraries. The folders are just numbers........


Totally agree, but I wished that at least the string ensembles had more articulations, portamento and a faster legato.

I'm fine with the other sections and the microphone mix. It seems very consistent across the sections; mostly the dynamic articulations (alongside some others) have been omitted. Also like that all the dynamics have been preserved.

I always wanted to check out the Berlin series, because I looove the sound and the philosophy of having individual instruments. As OT is quite expensive, this is a very good opportunity to explore them, and also help to decide if to buy the bigger libraries later. But I'm not a big fan of the SINE player, don't like the interface at all. Capsule looks nicer with this big dynamic knob.

@Andreas Bjorck Will there be an in-depth walkthrough of all the instruments and articulations? Or is the demo walkthrough the only one? I thought Hendrik mentioned another one in the introductory video.

Also I have some other questions:

Do strings and brass have vibrato control, too? Is this a crossfade or a simple on/off switch?
And what vibrato style is this? Berlin Strings and Woodwinds have various options: non/progressive/romantic/strong vibrato.
What about muted strings? I think Berlin Strings had only a filter. Is this available here, too?
Do strings have portamento on the highest velocity?


----------



## dzilizzi (Sep 11, 2021)

Drundfunk said:


> I don't understand you guys sometimes. This is a stripped-down all-in-one-package of the Berlin stuff for a fraction of the price. Either that's useful to you or it isn't. I don't really get the fuzz about it. It's a great product. Of course you won't get all the articulations and mic positions as in the full thing. What would be the point of that? You are not supposed to get the whole Berlin series just cheaper. That wouldn't make any sense from a business perspective.... . Keep doing what you doing OT and please stay long in business because I honestly have no idea how to back up my SINE libraries. The folders are just numbers........


But, but, but if we don't complain about everything, we will have nothing to talk about.


----------



## holywilly (Sep 11, 2021)

I also second the instruments walkthrough for Berlin Orchestra, so that we can hear what exactly how instrument sound in different articulations and most importantly, the one mix mic position that taken from the combination of Tree and Close of Berlin Series.

I’d love to purchase this collection, the given articulations are sufficient to work on commercial projects.


----------



## Nils Neumann (Sep 12, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> @OrchestralTools @Hendrik-Schwarzer @OT_Tobias I'm tagging all of you to BEG again (asked before) that you include a playlist feature to your webpage... I've been listening to the Nils Neuman track for over 20 minutes now while browsing  I just want to press play and forget, have the demos as background music, get to know your new products subconsciously while doing my online business... please ask your web guy to add a simple track jump instead of looping the same 1 minute forever. Good for the first composer on the list tho XD


Thanks for listening! Haha


----------



## MaxOctane (Sep 13, 2021)

@OrchestralTools

It appears that existing Berlin Series owners do not receive additional discount -- is that correct?

It would be great if you could post the discount that Berlin Orchestra owners will receive on future purchase of Berlin Series products, before the end of intro pricing so we can plan out. Thanks.


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## emilio_n (Sep 13, 2021)

MaxOctane said:


> It would be great if you could post the discount that Berlin Orchestra owners will receive on future purchase of Berlin Series products, before the end of intro pricing so we can plan out. Thanks.


Yes... this is a very important point to decided how and when to buy it.


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 20, 2021)

Once again I think I'll have to pass this up like inspire

I own these samples, and buying a slimmed down version is one thing but not getting a discount despite owning every main and expansion except french horn sfx makes this rather hefty tag not worth it

A stacking 10% per main library would make sense, 40% off and I would consider. 

Regardless I'm sure this is attractive for new buyers, it just feels oddly left out that people who own the flesh out versions of this aren't offered a discount


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## Evans (Sep 20, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Regardless I'm sure this is attractive for new buyers, it just feels oddly left out that people who own the flesh out versions of this aren't offered a discount


I'm somewhat in this situation. I have Berlin Strings, Brass, and Woodwinds, but not Percussion. I'd be interested in picking up this release (at a discount) as something to pop on my heftier laptop, _and_ as a way to get some slick percussion.

I admit, however, that I'm not sure what the "right price" would be that would have me 1) wanting to pick this up and 2) still look to buy full Percussion when it comes out on SINE.

Too expensive, and I might simply grab this and never buy BP full due to budget reasons. Or if the Berklee percussion is too darn good, maybe I wouldn't even bother buying SINE percussion.

Tricky situation for OT. I can see why there's not a simple down/cross-grade path.


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## Casiquire (Sep 20, 2021)

I'm with you both. I'd buy it just for the slim, easy, consistent presentation of the samples but it makes no sense for me owning everything but BS to pay almost the same price as BS for it.


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## OrchestralTools (Sep 21, 2021)

Hello!

We've been following the discussion here and it's been interesting reading... we certainly hear you, and we've been working out ways of clarifying things a little around the various upgrade paths. Seeing all the interest, we've also decided to pull the upgrades topic forward.

So here we go...

*Q. Can I get a discount on Berlin Orchestra if I own one or more of the Berlin Series main collections?*

No, but read to the end for the good news. The Berlin Series main collections are much more detailed and have a wider scope than Berlin Orchestra, and we generally don't do 'downgrade' deals. But we already hinted that the Berlin Series main collections will be available very soon on SINE, and you can expect some deals when we launch them. We can't give too many details right now, but the word 'bundle' has been mentioned in the same breath as 'upgrade deals'.

We've also seen people here who already own ALL Berlin Series main collections talk about the Berlin Orchestra being attractive as a mobile setup. This honestly hadn't occurred to us, but it makes a lot of sense. So if you own all 4 Berlin Series main collections, you'll get Berlin Orchestra for free. Give us a day or two to implement the logic in the shop, we'll write to you when it's ready. 


*Q. Can I get a discount on Berlin Orchestra if I own Berlin Orchestra Inspire 1? Or 2? Or both?*

Yes—all Inspire owners get 200 EUR discount on Berlin Orchestra, as of now. We've set it up now so that the discount also applies during the Berlin Orchestra intro offer, which we hadn't originally planned. The discount will be applied automatically in the last step of the checkout process (i.e. on the checkout page).

Important: To apply this discount, the shop needs to be able to recognize your Inspire license, so if you own Inspire 1 or 2 on Kontakt, make sure to activate your Inspire for SINE before you purchase Berlin Orchestra here: https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/licenses


*Q. If I own Berlin Orchestra, do I get a discount on the Berlin Series main collections?*

Yes, you will, as soon as we release them on SINE. Which, as mentioned previously, will be very soon.


OK, hope that helps clarify things a little. Thanks for the lively discussion, the ideas, and the input. More soon!


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## Paul Jelfs (Sep 21, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hello!
> 
> We've been following the discussion here and it's been interesting reading... we certainly hear you, and we've been working out ways of clarifying things a little around the various upgrade paths. Seeing all the interest, we've also decided to pull the upgrades topic forward.
> 
> ...


That sounds promising  Especially Berlin coming to Sine soon. 

One of the things I really like about the Berlin Libraries is the adaptive legato - especially the run legato when you play fast. With this in mind, was there any reason why you decided not to include the run legato patches for the strings, only the WWs? Is this something you could potentially add in the future. I personally feel it would be an even more attractive package with the fast legato included for the strings


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## AEF (Sep 21, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hello!
> 
> We've been following the discussion here and it's been interesting reading... we certainly hear you, and we've been working out ways of clarifying things a little around the various upgrade paths. Seeing all the interest, we've also decided to pull the upgrades topic forward.
> 
> ...


Will the new SINE versions of the Berlin series also include the Mix mics of Berlin Orchestra?


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## Geomir (Sep 21, 2021)

About the strings sections, which ones are included in the Berlin Orchestra Created with Berklee? The original medium sized Berlin Strings, or the larger sized Berlin Symphonic Strings?


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## tritonely (Sep 21, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hello!
> 
> We've been following the discussion here and it's been interesting reading... we certainly hear you, and we've been working out ways of clarifying things a little around the various upgrade paths. Seeing all the interest, we've also decided to pull the upgrades topic forward.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the insight! Does the Inspire discount also stack or combine with edu discount? I only see the edu discount yet on my checkout (and have licensed Inspire 1 and 2


----------



## Germain B (Sep 21, 2021)

Geomir said:


> About the strings sections, which ones are included in the Berlin Orchestra Created with Berklee? The original medium sized Berlin Strings, or the larger sized Berlin Symphonic Strings?


The original medium sized Berlin Strings, they said in the chat during the premiere on Youtube.


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## Paul Jelfs (Sep 21, 2021)

Germain B said:


> The original medium sized Berlin Strings, they said in the chat during the premiere on Youtube.


Does anyone else here wish they had included a faster legato for the strings, like they did for the woodwinds (run patches) or am I in the minority ?


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## Geomir (Sep 21, 2021)

Germain B said:


> The original medium sized Berlin Strings, they said in the chat during the premiere on Youtube.


Oh thanks for that. Great, I like your answer, that's what I was hoping for. Symphonic strings are great (and newer, if that means anything) but the medium sized ones will always have better definition and be more versatile.


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## Geomir (Sep 21, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> Does anyone else here wish they had included a faster legato for the strings, like they did for the woodwinds (run patches) or am I in the minority ?


To be honest I would like to see the exact "opposite" of that: I was surprised by the lack of portamento, which is included in more and more string libraries as a basic strings articulation.


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## Loerpert (Sep 21, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hello!
> 
> We've been following the discussion here and it's been interesting reading... we certainly hear you, and we've been working out ways of clarifying things a little around the various upgrade paths. Seeing all the interest, we've also decided to pull the upgrades topic forward.
> 
> ...



As an owner of all 4 berlin main modules + some expansions it good to hear I can use this as a mobile setup for free. Also extremely excited to get the Berlin modules in SINE soon! Thanks guys!


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Sep 21, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> So if you own all 4 Berlin Series main collections, you'll get Berlin Orchestra for free. Give us a day or two to implement the logic in the shop, we'll write to you when it's ready.


WOOOO


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## Aitcpiano (Sep 21, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> Does anyone else here wish they had included a faster legato for the strings, like they did for the woodwinds (run patches) or am I in the minority ?


I feel exactly the same as you.


----------



## Aitcpiano (Sep 21, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> Does anyone else here wish they had included a faster legato for the strings, like they did for the woodwinds (run patches) or am I in the minority ?


This is one of the main reasons I have not purchased it, alongside no mic options.


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## Getsumen (Sep 21, 2021)

AEF said:


> Will the new SINE versions of the Berlin series also include the Mix mics of Berlin Orchestra?


Mix mic of Berlin are just close + tree, I don't think they added any processing. Could easily just load close + tree (I can't see why one wouldn't) or just merge them into a mix if you really want to.


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## Paul Jelfs (Sep 21, 2021)

Aitcpiano said:


> This is one of the main reasons I have not purchased it, alongside no mic options.


This guy gets it  
It looks so good on paper, I just would want those runs - More mics would be good, but I can live with 1 if they have the fast string legato. Perhaps they can or are thinking on updating on this library


----------



## AEF (Sep 21, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> Mix mic of Berlin are just close + tree, I don't think they added any processing. Could easily just load close + tree (I can't see why one wouldn't) or just merge them into a mix if you really want to.


Would love for OT to confirm this bc it doesnt sound like a simple combo of zeroed out close and tree to me.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Sep 21, 2021)

AEF said:


> Would love for OT to confirm this bc it doesnt sound like a simple combo of zeroed out close and tree to me.


It's probably not, it's probably a combination of close + tree depending on the instrument. 

for the most part it does sound like just a combo of those two mics


----------



## kwencel (Sep 21, 2021)

Great news! Now the only question is whether to buy now using the Inspire discount + the curent intro offer for €449 and then upgrade to full Berlin when the SINE bundle is released or just wait for the SINE release which I believe will also be discounted and it will also give you Orchestra for free as it was just announced...


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Sep 21, 2021)

kwencel said:


> Great news! Now the only question is whether to buy now using the Inspire discount + the curent intro offer for €449 and then upgrade to full Berlin when the SINE bundle is released or just wait for the SINE release which I believe will also be discounted and it will also give you Orchestra for free as it was just announced...




Looks like there is a nice upgrade path no matter what tbh

Inspire to the orchestra, then Berlin down the line

Or incentive to complete Berlin main to get the orchestra as a bonus


----------



## Alexartist (Sep 21, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> Does anyone else here wish they had included a faster legato for the strings, like they did for the woodwinds (run patches) or am I in the minority ?


Yes, I do.


----------



## Casiquire (Sep 21, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> Mix mic of Berlin are just close + tree, I don't think they added any processing. Could easily just load close + tree (I can't see why one wouldn't) or just merge them into a mix if you really want to.


I don't believe it's quite so simple, plus most of them have more than one close mic option.


----------



## Alexartist (Sep 21, 2021)

Geomir said:


> I was surprised by the lack of portamento, which is included in more and more string libraries as a basic strings articulation.


Yes. Portamento is also necessary


----------



## Paul Jelfs (Sep 21, 2021)

Alexartist said:


> Yes. Portamento is also necessary


Well if they used the Berlin Strings as the basis for this library, It should not be too much of a challenge to add both Portamento, and fast string runs. In fact I think if enough of us shout louder enough on here about this, they might be willing to consider adding them. 

I also wish there were more walkthroughs on Youtube, so can really hear each instrument and how it sounds and plays- but other than sample library reviews one, and a couple of OT ones, I can't find any other video showing of this potential amazing, all in one library


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## Alexartist (Sep 21, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> to add both Portamento, and fast string runs


For me, this is more important at the moment than another (or a couple) microphones.


----------



## dzilizzi (Sep 21, 2021)

You have to remember that this is a limited library, made to Berklee's requirements. If they add much more, they will have to increase the price. Which is opposite the "make it affordable for college students with the 40% discount"

When they start sending out the "free for owners of Berlin Series," can someone let us know? Nothing that I bought prior to Sine shows on my account, so I'm not sure I will get the email. It is really nice that they are going to do this. And? I don't have all the extensions, so I don't know if I qualify? I do have all the main libraries.


----------



## Alexartist (Sep 21, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> You have to remember that this is a limited library, made to Berklee's requirements.


That's right, that's clear. But I mean the likely development of the Berlin Orchestra-an update for money-if only this library could be fully used. I am ready to pay extra for fast legato and portamento (strings)!


----------



## Donny Grace (Sep 21, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hello!
> 
> We've been following the discussion here and it's been interesting reading... we certainly hear you, and we've been working out ways of clarifying things a little around the various upgrade paths. Seeing all the interest, we've also decided to pull the upgrades topic forward.
> 
> ...


I have both BOI 1 and BOI 2 registered in SINE and they are also both showing up in my licenses on the website, yet the Inspire discount is not getting applied at checkout.


----------



## Oxytoxine (Sep 22, 2021)

Did someone who also has the Inspires already had a chance to hear whether the mic mix in Berlin Orchestra matches passably well with the one in the Inspires?


----------



## tosvus (Sep 29, 2021)

I guess I will wait for a sale and see. When it was announced I was told AFTER intro pricing was over, I would get a nice big discount on it due to owning Inspire1+2, but confusingly, it doesn't show until you check out, so I just tried, and it is a 200 voucher, which just puts it back down to intro pricing :/


----------



## Paul Jelfs (Sep 29, 2021)

I think something BIG is going to happen soon, with the Berlin Libraries and SINE, so might be a good idea to watch this space.....


----------



## A.Heppelmann (Oct 1, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> So if you own all 4 Berlin Series main collections, you'll get Berlin Orchestra for free. Give us a day or two to implement the logic in the shop, we'll write to you when it's ready.


Has there been any update on this?


----------



## Paul Jelfs (Oct 1, 2021)

A.Heppelmann said:


> Has there been any update on this?


Well I emailed support and they said to hold off buying any other Berlin title right now - Something was happening soon. But I don't know how SOON - So from the fact I own some of the Berlin Main series and was interested in the B.O. it seems like they are bringing out an offer or a crossgrade, probably with the SINE version of the Berlin libraries. 

Its been quite quiet relatively recently for all companies, I think we are about to get an explosion of announcements, updates, and new libraries.


----------



## dzilizzi (Oct 1, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> Well I emailed support and they said to hold off buying any other Berlin title right now - Something was happening soon. But I don't know how SOON - So from the fact I own some of the Berlin Main series and was interested in the B.O. it seems like they are bringing out an offer or a crossgrade, probably with the SINE version of the Berlin libraries.
> 
> Its been quite quiet relatively recently for all companies, I think we are about to get an explosion of announcements, updates, and new libraries.


The calm before Black Friday.....


I'm letting it sit right now because I do have BWW, but bought before they had accounts that showed tracked purchases. When the Sine version comes out, I will be able to input my serial number to get the Sine version, which should then add BWW to my account. The other 3 sections already show in my account. I'm sure there are a whole lot of others in a similar position, so it will be easier for OT if we upgrade to Sine then they can give us the BO version free. No massive sending of serial numbers in to support to get it.


----------



## Casiquire (Oct 1, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> Well I emailed support and they said to hold off buying any other Berlin title right now - Something was happening soon. But I don't know how SOON - So from the fact I own some of the Berlin Main series and was interested in the B.O. it seems like they are bringing out an offer or a crossgrade, probably with the SINE version of the Berlin libraries.
> 
> Its been quite quiet relatively recently for all companies, I think we are about to get an explosion of announcements, updates, and new libraries.


Probably VERY soon. It's rare that a dev encourages a potential customer to wait


----------



## Loerpert (Oct 13, 2021)

@OrchestralTools When do you expect us Berlin owners can get Berklee for free?


----------



## OrchestralTools (Oct 14, 2021)

Loerpert said:


> @OrchestralTools When do you expect us Berlin owners can get Berklee for free?


Hey @Loerpert and everyone else that's been asking - sorry we've been a bit quiet on this topic. Busy times.

The Berlin Series on SINE release is coming soon, and when that's out, we'll be in touch individually about how to get the free Berlin Orchestra. Along with the other upgrade options etc.

Note: We're going to be using our newsletter lists for distributing voucher codes and offers, so if you have any time spare while you're waiting, please make sure you're getting newsletters from us i.e. our mails don't land in your spam folder, your email address is up-to-date, etc.

Thanks very much, more soon.


----------



## OrchestralTools (Nov 5, 2021)

Hi everyone. You probably saw the post from yesterday: What we wanted to say was that we're aware this is taking a little longer than expected, and we're pushing the limits of what 'coming soon' actually means... but we're almost there and you can expect an update before the end of the month.


----------



## Nashi_VI (Nov 5, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hi everyone. You probably saw the post from yesterday: What we wanted to say was that we're aware this is taking a little longer than expected, and we're pushing the limits of what 'coming soon' actually means... but we're almost there and you can expect an update before the end of the month.


you guys should correct the spelling on the post from yesterday, a lot of people are still confused about what it actually meant


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 6, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> but we're almost there and you can expect an update before the end of the month.


@OrchestralTools , 

Thanks.

So, we can expect an update before the end of the month informing us that it is coming very soon ? 

Sorry, don't understand what an update is in your statement above. Hopefully you mean an official statement announcing Berlin Orchestral libraries available in SINE.


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## PaulieDC (Nov 6, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> @OrchestralTools ,
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ...


Sounds like the update is referring to the October 14th post up a few floors, which would/should mean the SINE—>Berlin being released. Hope I’m somewhat accurate! 😀


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## PaulieDC (Nov 6, 2021)

As a software developer by day, I am perfectly fine with them getting it right before it’s released. Even in my job things look like they’re coming together and you try to give positive feedback to those who are waiting and to be honest, pressing you, only to find out there’s a section you have to revisit and possibly re-write. So I know we are all chomping at the bit and believe me I want my entire Berlin collection in one player, I can’t wait for that, but there’s one thing that I have learned in 20 years of software development: everything takes longer than it does.
😁


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Dec 3, 2021)

Does anyone who bought the Berklee version know how much discount you get on the bigger Berlin series collections?


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## holywilly (Dec 3, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Does anyone who bought the Berklee version know how much discount you get on the bigger Berlin series collections?


20% off.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Dec 3, 2021)

holywilly said:


> 20% off.


Damn, I thought it was more... So, the SINE bundle is THE way to save money if one is interested in the entire collection. Or do you know, by the way, if the EDU discount adds up on this? But I can't imagine that.


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## holywilly (Dec 3, 2021)

I bought each section during BF sales, which is 50% plus additional 20% off. Try buying individual section with EDU account, the 20% off voucher applied automatically when checkout.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Dec 3, 2021)

Thanks. The thing is that I don't own the Berklee version. I'm trying to figure out what would be the cheapest option: to upgrade the Berklee version to the bigger collections or to go with the SINE bundle. Maybe I should ask OT's support team.

On the other hand: I would prefer to start with the "smaller" Berklee version to see if I like it. And one has solo strings and harp (which isn't yet SINE'd).


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## FrozenIcicle (Dec 3, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Thanks. The thing is that I don't own the Berklee version. I'm trying to figure out what would be the cheapest option: to upgrade the Berklee version to the bigger collections or to go with the SINE bundle. Maybe I should ask OT's support team.
> 
> On the other hand: I would prefer to start with the "smaller" Berklee version to see if I like it. And one has solo strings and harp (which isn't yet SINE'd).


umm correct my if I'm wrong but the solo strings are just first chair from BS and the harp is the only thing not found in the Berlin Series


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Dec 3, 2021)

FrozenIcicle said:


> umm correct my if I'm wrong but the solo strings are just first chair from BS and the harp is the only thing not found in the Berlin Series


Yes, you‘re right, but I only meant harp(s) with the not-yet-SINE‘d tag. First Chairs are a separate bundle together with the additional articulations for BS.

And compared to Berklee the SINE bundle (the big one) doesn’t have solo strings and harp.


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## FrozenIcicle (Dec 3, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Yes, you‘re right, but I only meant harp(s) with the not-yet-SINE‘d tag. First Chairs are a separate bundle together with the additional articulations for BS.
> 
> And compared to Berklee the SINE bundle (the big one) doesn’t have solo strings and harp.


Oh you're right, I forgot first chairs wasn't included with BS


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## PaulieDC (Dec 7, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Damn, I thought it was more... So, the SINE bundle is THE way to save money if one is interested in the entire collection. Or do you know, by the way, if the EDU discount adds up on this? But I can't imagine that.


Yes, they stack EDU for this...when I put the Berklee Berlin Orchestra in my cart, I get 200 Euros off because I own Berlin Inspire, then I get the 40%EDU stacked on it, and the final result is 309 Euros to buy it outright. FYI.


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## andyhy (Dec 18, 2021)

I use BO Berklee with Dorico 3.5 Pro because it fits very well with my 32 Gb ram limitation. Expression maps currently a WIP in order to create a playback termplate.


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