# Piano Exercises for VI Composers?



## Prockamanisc (Jul 19, 2017)

I went to school for classical guitar and have minimal piano chops. I can afford to give about 30-60 minutes every morning to the piano. What sorts of exercises would be good to do? I've got kind of a 3-pronged approach: 1) practice technique, 2) apply theory/concepts on piano, and 3) learn repertoire.

Is this a good approach? I notice that when I play stuff in the velocities are all over the place, and I have to fix them by hand. Can anyone recommend a technique exercise for that?

How would one go about applying theory to piano? I'm formally trained as a composer, but getting it out onto a piano is different than what I'm used to. How would I do this?

My main goal would be versatility on the piano so that I'd be able to write and record MIDI as quickly and efficiently as possible.


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## passsacaglia (Jul 19, 2017)

Just for a quickie I am thinking of the E-book Music Theory for Computer Musicians, but maybe that won't help you much. Personally I'd like to learn or "know what chord I can play next" harmony wise to spice the chord pattern a little. 

But all major, minor scales of course (music theory) then all the 7th and 9th etc and different scales. That's always a good start!


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## bbunker (Jul 19, 2017)

I think any time spent is going to be rewarded, but I'd probably recommend spending a bit more time getting your chops up first. It isn't tough to maintain some degree of technique once it is there, but that technique has to be learned and ingrained first, right? And I'd probably get a teacher - because a lot of what's going to help you the most is having someone sit with you while you play Hanon and nag you with corrections until you internalize those corrections and can self-correct your playing better.

Honestly, scales and arpeggios will you get you a long way here - with a seriously critical ear. Just plowing notes won't help, but a constant attention to tone, touch, balance and color is what you're looking for. And how a teacher can help a lot. Maybe some Hanon to get some passagework together - just ignore any of the directions Hanon gives, because his ideas on technique are pretty dated.

There are some books that you'd probably get a lot out of that focus on things like 'Functional Harmony at the Keyboard' or 'Functional Keyboard.' Variations on that theme. The basic idea is that you should be playing and internalizing basic cadences, scales and progressions in all keys, in various inversions. Start with I-IV-V's with good voice leading, with the left hand just playing roots and the right playing three-note triads above it.

Repertoire: Honestly I'd get something like the Bastien series' Elementary and Intermediate books. They're cheap, full of the stuff most people learn at those stages, and you can use more time playing and less looking for music to play.

There are some exercises that would really work well for you, but are harder to find (they're in books with etudes that will be way too hard for you!) and will take some work on basic scale work before you can approach them. Dohnanyi has a lot of exercises that use five-finger patterns that keep the same shape in all keys, with different patterns in left and right hands simultaneously. Once you get to the level where you can get near those, your velocities will be right where you want them.  Assuming your controller is decent!!!


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## Prockamanisc (Jul 19, 2017)

This is great, thank you.


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## chimuelo (Jul 19, 2017)

Hanon and Czerny.
They've worked for over 150 years.
And Chopin is the next step.
Check back in 2 years and let us know how it goes.


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## bbunker (Jul 19, 2017)

Bach! Bach is the next step!!

Sorry...force of habit...


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## agarner32 (Jul 19, 2017)

All of the above suggestions are fine, but I'd add that you should be practicing on a real piano. Maybe start with a Steinway B or Yamaha C7 - okay just kidding. Even just an inexpensive console would be better than a keyboard. Most cities have places to rent them pretty cheaply and you can buy them used on craigslist for very cheap if you're patient.


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## Prockamanisc (Jul 19, 2017)

I think my girlfriend would kill me if I brought a real piano into our apartment. But yeah, it would be great. I've got a Roland F-20. I bought it because I fell in love with the touch and the sound, it was really something that I could get lost in while I'm playing it. It happened for me when I bought it 3 years ago and it still happens for me now. Sure, I'd love a real piano, though. But I'd also love an SSL board too. And maybe a house of my own.


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## agarner32 (Jul 19, 2017)

I totally understand, I used to live in apartments at one time too although I always found a way to have a small piano to practice on. It really depends on how much you want your skills to develop. I think you'd be fine with a keyboard and can really improve a lot, but you're limited in terms of development. Being able to afford one or having the space doesn't change the facts. Anyway, it sounds like you are motivated so you'll only get better over time.


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## chimuelo (Jul 20, 2017)

You do these on several keyboards if possible.
I did my exercises on accordion with my left hand as a kid.
It made woodshedding Keith Emersons Take A Pebble a breeze.


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## scoringdreams (Jul 20, 2017)

Why don't you start with Hanon and Czerny?


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## Amadeus (Jul 20, 2017)

This thread is awesome. Thanks so far for the great inputs. I really would like to read more.


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## mikeh-375 (Jul 20, 2017)

Don't forget Dohnanyi Erno....
'Essential finger exercises for obtaining a sure piano technique'.

(the only way fingers can experience their own unique S+M)


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## ironbut (Jul 20, 2017)

I agree.
This is great stuff and exactly what I need to hear.
I've been doing scales and arpeggios for a while now but I was just using my Impulse 61 key and any Kontakt piano I liked at the time.
I picked up SC Hammersmith a few weeks ago and now I'm listening and concentrating on stuff like balance and tone so much more.
I'm still a total beginner but I'm getting to the point that I don't have to scale the tempo down just to get the rhythms correct very often anymore. 
Not that I find anything immoral about doing that but it does break the flow.


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## bbunker (Jul 20, 2017)

This is probably preaching to the choir - but slowing down the tempo is never quite the same as playing it in as it is. Because the 'feel' of how heavily you play notes at 120 bpm and 60 bpm is completely different. That, and it's just hard to hear what should feel right unless you've actually done it. And so it becomes discouraging when people complain about it not sounding as natural, but you feel like you're doing everything you can to make it work.

In the same vein - I do really think it's better to practice as much as you can on the real thing. The thing about scales and arpeggios is it is programming in the relationship between your hands and fingers, keyboard, ear, and musical memory. Because the piano keyboard is an analogue mechanical device, literally every variable you introduce will change the balance of things. So - you have much more room for subtlety, and also there are much greater demands in balance, tone, etc. So there's always a danger that using a software instrument will program into your aural instincts the feel of something that hides flaws that come out on other instruments, or the real thing.

Don't mean to be discouraging at all - obviously (ok, maybe it isn't...) everyone would love a 9-footer in a custom-built room whenever practicing calls, but we have to make do with what we can get. I'm just saying it's worth the time to look around and see if there are pianos available to you to get some time in on. There usually are!


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## Will Blackburn (Aug 5, 2017)

bbunker said:


> I think any time spent is going to be rewarded, but I'd probably recommend spending a bit more time getting your chops up first. It isn't tough to maintain some degree of technique once it is there, but that technique has to be learned and ingrained first, right? And I'd probably get a teacher - because a lot of what's going to help you the most is having someone sit with you while you play Hanon and nag you with corrections until you internalize those corrections and can self-correct your playing better.
> 
> Honestly, scales and arpeggios will you get you a long way here - with a seriously critical ear. Just plowing notes won't help, but a constant attention to tone, touch, balance and color is what you're looking for. And how a teacher can help a lot. Maybe some Hanon to get some passagework together - just ignore any of the directions Hanon gives, because his ideas on technique are pretty dated.
> 
> ...



Thanks bbunker. Just found a load of tuts on Functional Harmony on youtube.


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## Tiko (Aug 7, 2017)

My 2 cents would be to use some of the time to improvise every time you play. That's the best way to develop your ear, dynamics, articulation and musicality. It also doesn't hurt to be able to come up with any kind of music on the fly either, which will be the result of practicing improvisation  This develops your composition skills as much or more than piano chops.


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## gsilbers (Aug 7, 2017)

Prockamanisc said:


> I went to school for classical guitar and have minimal piano chops. I can afford to give about 30-60 minutes every morning to the piano. What sorts of exercises would be good to do? I've got kind of a 3-pronged approach: 1) practice technique, 2) apply theory/concepts on piano, and 3) learn repertoire.
> 
> Is this a good approach? I notice that when I play stuff in the velocities are all over the place, and I have to fix them by hand. Can anyone recommend a technique exercise for that?
> 
> ...




Im on the same boat! Classical guitar is my main instrument. 

Two thoughts i can share. one is that as it was mentioned above and in that YT video, the I-IV-V chord helps.. but doing it for all notes of the scale AND also doing them inversion has helped me getting to chords and voice leading faster. 
There another video where i got it from but cant find it now, but its the above but getting faster and faster so it becomes muscle memory. 

The second (and more controversial) thing is... 

Have you looked into Midi guitars? Its been a pet peeve of mine to check all of them and I think your post , which might be the same reasoning as mine, its that its very very hard to sequence orchestral stuff with a guitar while in keyboard its a breeze. And imo , its mainly because midi guitars have been mostly tailored to electric guitar cats who wanna wail on 70's era moog solos... so a roland GR3 note to midi pickup system is completly useless for us. it would be the same as having a audio to midi convertion in a steinway piano and trying to sequence for orchestral music with it. 

There are a few midi guitars that kind of work. The latest one is the lineage guitar from yourock and also the ztars. I found that a good and very cheap one is the fender mustang midi guitar. looks just like a toy but the right hand sensitivity has been the closest to a classical guitar ive found. This enables me to hold some notes and changing others while using a pedal for expression. This is something you cant do with the roland /audio to midi conver systems. The ztar and lieange do the same but the right hand sensitivit is not that great. again, de in fact because they think people will play with a pick rather with fingers. 
If your idea of this piano thread is not for sequencing... then forget what i wrote for my second thought


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## Prockamanisc (Aug 7, 2017)

gsilbers said:


> If your idea of this piano thread is not for sequencing... then forget what i wrote for my second thought


I appreciate the thoughts, but yeah, composing on piano is like "cooking with grease", as they say. You can conceptualize the full spectrum and play everything much more easily.


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## gsilbers (Aug 7, 2017)

Prockamanisc said:


> I appreciate the thoughts, but yeah, composing on piano is like "cooking with grease", as they say. You can conceptualize the full spectrum and play everything much more easily.



Its true, its eaiser to view for composition. although i went to heitor pereiras studio at remote control and he does everything with guitar. midi guitar, and a odd guitar with a lot more strings, for what i assume is for the orchestral range. 
and he composes those very hard animated features from universal. very inspiring to see he didnt use the piano that much and relied more on guitar to compose. which for me its still hard to translate from the guitar neck to orchestral arragements. knowing several instrument does enhance musical knowledge i think. different vewpoints etc etc like a bilingual person i guess.


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## Tiko (Aug 8, 2017)

bbunker said:


> This is probably preaching to the choir - but slowing down the tempo is never quite the same as playing it in as it is. Because the 'feel' of how heavily you play notes at 120 bpm and 60 bpm is completely different. That, and it's just hard to hear what should feel right unless you've actually done it. And so it becomes discouraging when people complain about it not sounding as natural, but you feel like you're doing everything you can to make it work.



I think the whole start slow thing is because many times beginners try to play way faster than their ability, resulting in a sloppy mess. And if they keep practicing like that they'll develop bad habits in their technique. Other than that I do agree. You can't learn playing fast by playing slow, but the more you play slow and scrutinize every single note while doing it the better your playing will sound when you play fast. Just a thought!


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## Eric (Aug 9, 2017)

First, I'd really define your goal. Do you want to learn repertoire because that's the way you approached learning classical guitar? Realizing you'll grow over time as a composer, how much (at least initially) do you intend to include "piano" in your compositions? Not orchestral samples, not necessarily synth, or other keyboard instruments, but piano? And if you do intend to write piano music, how much would you say will be classical in nature, as opposed to other styles?

Think about what will make for the best use of your time, moving directly toward your compositional goals. If you're primarily comfortable with composing on guitar, and entering in single notes at a time on the keyboard, then I'd really focus on right-hand single lines (Hanon would work). If your left hand will mostly be working a mod wheel anyway, then don't be afraid to practice riding mod-wheel while playing single notes in your right hand - if that's a more direct path to your goal. You can always fill in the gaps later, gradually, as desired.

As for your question about applying theory to piano, are you really talking about voicings? 

There are idiomatic piano voicings to different styles of music. Rock players usually play octave roots in the left hand, with straight stacked triads in the right (maybe a sus2 or sus4 if it's advanced). Jazz depends on the era - traditional jazz voicings are usually tightly stacked, and add a 6th or 7th when appropriate; or there's McCoy Tyner style, with root-5th in the left hand, and stacked 4ths in the right; or Bill Evans / Herbie Hancock, getting into upper structures (3rd/7th in the left hand, triads in the right); or Thelonious Monk, who might just play 2 notes a minor 2nd apart, and imply the rest of the harmony. But if writing for individual single-note instruments, not piano, I'd just go with voice leading and counter-point.

When practicing, respect the ability to play at all tempos - don't just push for fast, placing notes where you want them at slow tempos can also be a challenge. Concentrate on dynamic control, and of course on time. And don't forget time feel - learn to lay back a note or phrase when desired, learn to push a phrase, get comfortable with pushing / pulling in musical ways.


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