# Embertons Joshua Bell or Virharmonic Bohemian Violin?



## Maxfabian (Sep 25, 2017)

Hey!

I would like to get myself a new VI Violin library. I guess these two are among the best out there and I would like to here what u think. Have you tried them both and which one did u prefer? I know there is some other options out there but what i have heard thru demos I think these are the once that sounds most convenient. Any thoughts?

Cheers


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## PeterN (Sep 25, 2017)

Good question.

I was curious about same, but also about Cinematic Studio Strings violin that just came out, how all three would compare.

I already bought one of them, but still curious what someone would think, who have tried them all three. Maybe not too many out there. Someone with a violin library fetish?


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## Phryq (Sep 25, 2017)

I have Joshua Bell but not Virharmonic.

My impression is that Virharmonic is easy to use, but Joshua Bell also has tons to 'automatic' presets that make it sound good out of the box, plus it has waaaaay more. I'd strongly recommend Joshua Bell (hence my own decision).


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## noises on (Sep 25, 2017)

Wait a few weeks for Emotional Violin from Harmonic Subtones. In the meantime listen to its sibling Emotional Cello here.  and . Beautifully recorded and vast in terms of articulations.


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## fiestared (Sep 25, 2017)

Maxfabian said:


> Hey!
> 
> I would like to get myself a new VI Violin library. I guess these two are among the best out there and I would like to here what u think. Have you tried them both and which one did u prefer? I know there is some other options out there but what i have heard thru demos I think these are the once that sounds most convenient. Any thoughts?
> 
> Cheers


I've got both. One is finished, the other one is still not finished (after month If not years of delaying, delaying, we had the first extension and now We're again waiting for the second one ) So you can make your opinion yourself. 
Regarding the sound, usability, etc... I think the Joshua Bell is in a différent category by itself. It's an absolutely incredible instrument, not a library, "an instrument"


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## gregh (Sep 25, 2017)

I have the Virharmonic instruments and have thought about the Joshua Bell but can't really justify the price. I imagine if I had bought the Bell first and was considering the Virharmonic I would be thinking much the same


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## mac (Sep 25, 2017)

Never used Joshua, but I own Virharmonic and it's brilliant. I have read here that Joshua isn't quite as advanced in it's out of the box playability, and to me that's where Virharmonic really shines, it's playability. Joshua does sound excellent though.


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## gregh (Sep 25, 2017)

I've just posted a piece in the composer section that is purely out of the box Bohemian Violin (two of) and their Cello that I think demonstrates at least some of the range in expressiveness that is possible for someone who cant play piano or violin - strictly software generated notes. I am amazed at how good both the cello and violin are, incredibly easy to use


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## Zhao Shen (Sep 25, 2017)

I have Virharmonic and CSSS and despite the praises being sung about the former, I just can't bring myself to appreciate it. I know it's touted as a fantastically scripted performer, but there's just not enough control over the sound for my tastes, and even when forcing specific articulations, it isn't as fluid as one might expect.

If you are looking to snag a solo violin performer, don't think you'll beat Joshua Bell. If you're looking for solo strings in general, CSSS or CineStrings SOLO might be more your speed.


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## mac (Sep 25, 2017)

I am still tempted to purchase Joshua, as the sound is different enough to justify owning both. Is there anyone who can post demos of each, using the same midi?


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## Ultraxenon (Sep 25, 2017)

I have listen to the demos of Joshua violin and i have to say that i am impressed. I own Bohemian violin, Cinestrings Solo, Friedlander, 8dio violin and my favorit is Bohemian violin, but i also use Cinestrings Solo much. Bohemian has an incredible playabillity. It sounds great out of the box and the different styles you could chose from is almost perfect (not every time) the Cinestrings solo violin vibrato patch is just amazing. If i didn't own those two librarys i think Joshua violin could easily be the right choice, but now when i have those i don't think it brings anything new to the table but the sound. And that could be the thing to consider when makin a choice between those instruments. Which one do you think sound best and fit your music well? The tone sound pretty different to me. 
Good luck with your choice


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## prodigalson (Sep 25, 2017)

Virharmonic's bohemian is "playable" for sure and is impressive right out of the box but, in fact, in many cases for me it requires a little bit of elbow grease to tame it's expression and get a nuanced performance. What you gain in "playability" you sacrifice in flexibility. It is also not a very subtle instrument, generally speaking when it sounds good it has a very expressive and dramatic sound. 

Joshua Bell violin is also very "playable" out of the box and while it isn't as immediately "Expressive", it is just insanely flexible. The ability to go in and out of harmonics seamlessly, go to sul tasto or a sul pont trem and back instantly and choose whether you want to use JB's expression or craft your own. It's all there. 

And not for nothing, in all the samples you have Joshua Bell's performances. This is not a small detail. When you have the highest harmonic sustains, for example, they are Joshua Bell playing them and they sound stunning. 

I have both and all things being equal did not need another solo violin. But I'm glad I have this one, I'm going to be using it a lot. 

I'll try and post some comparisons of both later.


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## LamaRose (Sep 25, 2017)

Considering that I picked up the Bohemian at the initial $99 offer - which includes all future additions/updates - I have zero reservations about the purchase... an amazing "instrument" that fires the melodic spirit. And as mentioned, it's still a work-in-progress as new samples/articulations/player-styles are in the pipeline.

With that said, I love and have used the Embertone intimate series strings, so I have good idea what the Joshua will bring to the table. Wonderful tone, playability, and flexibility to set it up just as one desires.

Both are great companies to work with. If you're only getting one... well, you'll have to judge both tone and set-up options for yourself to decide as there is a definite gulf between the two libraries. For myself, once the funds come available, I can easily see myself snatching the Joshua for further inspiration.


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## Trusong (Sep 25, 2017)

Both do looks tempting. Not an easy choice.


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## musicalweather (Sep 25, 2017)

Just got the Joshua Bell violin. Haven't explored it enough to write any sort of review. What I like so far: a beautiful tone, rebowing (nice! Friedlander has rebowing, too, though it doesn't seem to work as easily as it does here, IMO) and a manual with a sense of humor. An example: "Make your own presets (saved as NKA files), share them with your friends. We think a set of presets would be the PERFECT birthday present for your parents."


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## Maxfabian (Sep 26, 2017)

Thanks all of you!!! I really appreciate all your thoughts here For me it is leaning towards Bohemian Violin and thats just because I prefer that sound and that many of you are praising the playability of it. I am not so much into tweaking I just love libraries that sounds nice out of the box. Thanks again everyone!!

Cheers


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## PhilipJohnston (Sep 26, 2017)

The piece below uses the Bohemian Violin, pretty much played straight out of the box - I'm downloading Joshua Bell now, will re-record the same piece if it's useful for a comparison.


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## mac (Sep 26, 2017)

PhilipJohnston said:


> The piece below uses the Bohemian Violin, pretty much played straight out of the box - I'm downloading Joshua Bell now, will re-record the same piece if it's useful for a comparison.



That'd be really useful if you could do that, thanks!


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## Maxfabian (Sep 26, 2017)

PhilipJohnston said:


> The piece below uses the Bohemian Violin, pretty much played straight out of the box - I'm downloading Joshua Bell now, will re-record the same piece if it's useful for a comparison.




Wow!! You convinced me even moor now. What a wonderful piece and the violin sounds very very good! It would be very interesting to hear the difference with the Joshua Bell violin. Please do if you have the time, I think a lot of us would find that very helpful. Thanks again for sharing your wonderful piece of music with us!

Cheers


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## Mystic (Sep 26, 2017)

I have two problems with Bohemian Violin which I've mentioned before:

1. It's essentially "early access" and is falling into the same problem that early access videogames have in that they delay, then delay again, then delay some more. I expect it will be a long time before the next expansion comes and while I appreciate them being a bit transparent with their scheduling, it means absolutely nothing if they can't reach the deadlines they are setting. I'm all for delaying a product in order to make sure it's working properly but where is the line drawn to what is acceptable when delaying?

2. It's a little too expressive for most things. I had the same issue with Tina Guo Cello in that, while it's a beautiful instrument, it just doesn't sit in most projects well. Expansion 1 made it a bit easier but I still have issues with it when I've tried using it in certain projects. It's the nature of the beast. It doesn't make it bad by any means by being so expressive but it does make it less useful in many situations.

Joshua Bell Violin has been incredible to work with so far and is the clear winner in my eyes. I'm still in the process of learning all of it but the control you have over it is out of this world and the tone is quite frankly, the best I've ever heard for a sampled violin.


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## imagegod (Sep 26, 2017)

Mystic said:


> I have two problems with Bohemian Violin which I've mentioned before:
> 
> 1. It's essentially "early access" and is falling into the same problem that early access videogames have in that they delay, then delay again, then delay some more. I expect it will be a long time before the next expansion comes and while I appreciate them being a bit transparent with their scheduling, it means absolutely nothing if they can't reach the deadlines they are setting. I'm all for delaying a product in order to make sure it's working properly but where is the line drawn to what is acceptable when delaying?
> 
> ...



I don't own the bohemian, however...

'Early access' is only a problem if the instrument is less than useful (however defined) as it presently exists. If an expressive instrument is your goal (and it's definitely mine), then this is less a problem than a greater 'solution in waiting'.

Re: Too expressive...seriously, that's way too easy to mitigate. For example, use a (free) violin from
http://virtualplaying.com/virtual-playing-orchestra/

It has a beautiful sound (that in no meaningful way compares to the Bohemian)...it is however much less expressive. There are a ton of similar options.


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## mac (Sep 26, 2017)

Mystic said:


> I have two problems with Bohemian Violin which I've mentioned before:
> 
> 1. It's essentially "early access" and is falling into the same problem that early access videogames have in that they delay, then delay again, then delay some more. I expect it will be a long time before the next expansion comes and while I appreciate them being a bit transparent with their scheduling, it means absolutely nothing if they can't reach the deadlines they are setting. I'm all for delaying a product in order to make sure it's working properly but where is the line drawn to what is acceptable when delaying?
> 
> ...



How do you find the playability between the two? From the vids, it seems there's a lot of keyswitching and triggering having to be done with Joshua? I'm more or less one-handed now, so limiting the amount of on-the-fly keyswitching I have to do, the better.


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## gregh (Sep 26, 2017)

mac said:


> How do you find the playability between the two? From the vids, it seems there's a lot of keyswitching and triggering having to be done with Joshua? I'm more or less one-handed now, so limiting the amount of on-the-fly keyswitching I have to do, the better.


i asked the same and embertone said that you can assign articulations to things like velocity so that you dont need much in the way of keyswitching to get a good performance.


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## mac (Sep 26, 2017)

gregh said:


> i asked the same and embertone said that you can assign articulations to things like velocity so that you dont need much in the way of keyswitching to get a good performance.



Ja, I did notice there was a page in the library where you could customise velocity switching etc, but I'm thinking more along the lines of the intelligent scripting found in bohemian (and possibly Joshua, hence me asking!)


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## SoNowWhat? (Sep 26, 2017)

prodigalson said:


> Virharmonic's bohemian is "playable" for sure and is impressive right out of the box but, in fact, in many cases for me it requires a little bit of elbow grease to tame it's expression and get a nuanced performance. What you gain in "playability" you sacrifice in flexibility. It is also not a very subtle instrument, generally speaking when it sounds good it has a very expressive and dramatic sound.
> 
> Joshua Bell violin is also very "playable" out of the box and while it isn't as immediately "Expressive", it is just insanely flexible. The ability to go in and out of harmonics seamlessly, go to sul tasto or a sul pont trem and back instantly and choose whether you want to use JB's expression or craft your own. It's all there.
> 
> ...


I have Bohemian, Bell and CSSS and I think you've nailed the comparison between Bohemian and Bell. You've managed to say what I was thinking and probably more clearly than I could have managed.

They are both very good and I fired up Bohemian when I first opened Bell for a comparison. They have their individual tone/style and that for me is the big difference. They are both wonderful but, it depends on where/how you want to use them, they could both do a good job as an exposed solo. I would say that the sounds that come out of the Bell vi make me want to weep. It's beautiful. And on the playability front, Bohemian is excellent though perhaps less curatable, while the Bell is astonishingly good and seems to know what I want to do before I do it. Fantastically fun to play.

On a more mundane matter, the Bohemian requires iLok (soft or dongle) for licensing. Bell goes through Native Access. 

If I had to choose only one of those two right now, it would probably be Bell but Bohemian is in no way bad. 

CSSS I feel is different again. I'm thinking it's strength is in first chair application and solo line within orchestral context rather than fully exposed solo. Having said that I've no doubt at all it could be used for exposed and in skilled hands would sound amazing. 

And after all of that I am still waiting on Emo Violin because I enjoy Emo Cello so much. Will be interesting to see what it delivers.


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## SoNowWhat? (Sep 26, 2017)

gregh said:


> I have the Virharmonic instruments and have thought about the Joshua Bell but can't really justify the price. I imagine if I had bought the Bell first and was considering the Virharmonic I would be thinking much the same


I also agonised over this. And all I'd say is that after pushing the button on Bell I am in no way sorry. So I guess that's another plus for Bell.


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## dtcomposer (Sep 26, 2017)

One other thing to consider is that the Bohemian strings are not complete yet. The advances from the first update were pretty substantial, so at some point you are going to have even more great features and articulations tacked on in upcoming expansions. They have one or two more expansions planned as far as I remember, and though they are not releasing them extremely quickly, they seem to be delivering great new content with each update.


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## SoNowWhat? (Sep 26, 2017)

Maxfabian said:


> Thanks all of you!!! I really appreciate all your thoughts here For me it is leaning towards Bohemian Violin and thats just because I prefer that sound and that many of you are praising the playability of it. I am not so much into tweaking I just love libraries that sounds nice out of the box. Thanks again everyone!!
> 
> Cheers


In no way should you think that Bell is not good "out of the box". It's phenomenal. In no way should you think it requires endless tweaking to get a decent performance from Bell. As far as those things go both instruments are good and I wouldn't use those features to make your decision. They are both very competent, out of the box but, IMHO Bell is slightly ahead. And if you feel you need to tweak the performance, you have that option in both though again IMHO the Bell wins for ease of flexibility.

In the end, the decision is yours and I don't think you can go wrong with either Bell or Bohemian for exposed solo work. I have both and I'm very happy to have both options.


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## Mornats (Sep 26, 2017)

Anyone else thinking they'd love to hear these two play a duet?


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## Craig Sharmat (Sep 26, 2017)

I like JB for flexibility but in general for the cues I write Bohemian is what i like as it sounds more natural to me.


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## muziksculp (Sep 26, 2017)

I purchased Embertone's JB Violin last night, imho. it has a wonderful timbre, very musical, and expressive for a virtual sampled instrument as complex as a violin. I'm very impressed after jamming with it for a few hours last night. Couldn't resist, but sleep finally won the battle. 

I don't have Bohemian Violin, listening to many of the demos of Bohemian Violin, It has a very different character to JB Violin, but I still prefer the JB Violin's timbre, which to my ears is richer, and has a more expressive sound, especially the sustained / Legato articulations.


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## Maxfabian (Sep 29, 2017)

SoNowWhat? said:


> I have Bohemian



Is it possible to get the Bohemian violin dry? Or is it very wet out of the box? 

Cheers


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Sep 30, 2017)

SoNowWhat? said:


> In no way should you think that Bell is not good "out of the box". It's phenomenal. In no way should you think it requires endless tweaking to get a decent performance from Bell. As far as those things go both instruments are good and I wouldn't use those features to make your decision. They are both very competent, out of the box but, IMHO Bell is slightly ahead. And if you feel you need to tweak the performance, you have that option in both though again IMHO the Bell wins for ease of flexibility.
> 
> In the end, the decision is yours and I don't think you can go wrong with either Bell or Bohemian for exposed solo work. I have both and I'm very happy to have both options.



I read this whole post. Nobody seemed to have both. It was all about opinions "If I had both." Really what you said is exactly correct. I have both, so I decided to do a shootout. My shootout is not about which one sounds better. It is about which more fun to play. I am not even a violinist. I am a woodwind player and a bassist hoping beyond hoping to get a solo violin library that will convince even me that it sounds like the violinists that I played with in orchestras years ago. But my my main goal is to have fun, even if I do stuff that real violinists can't do. I want to have fun with these libraries and create music that sounds like what I want my music to sound like, even if I don't make any money doing it. I want to have fun.

So this shootout comparing what I did using Virharmonic and Embertone is all about me telling other musicians which one was more fun for me. I am a bass player and I learned piano by taking my guitar and transposing note for note what I could play on guitar onto the keyboard as a child, so I don't know doodley squat about keyboards, but I know have to have fun with music. To me, the keyboard is just another outlet to have fun with music. 

OK, I used the same bass track to demonstrate the subtle difference between Bohemian and Embertone Joshua Bell. I am jamming with myself, so to speak.

Here is Embertone Joshua Bell with the bass jam: 



Here is Virharmonic Bohemian Violin with the same bass track jam: 



They are both excellent and most fun, so either one you decide on will be total fun for you. There are two subtle difference I noticed. With Embertone, there were many happy accidents. Being not such a precise keyboard player, the accidents did something wonderful. They gave me a surprise, almost as if Embertone had planned on my accidents. That inspired me to keep going ore and want more accidents.

Virharmonic Bohemian, I had to stop a few times and start over. But the learning curve was small and I was able to make a track just as good as with Embertone Joshua Bell library with maybe 10 minutes of rehearsal.

But in the end, I will reach for Joshua Bell for this one reason. My friends at Virhamonic maybe focused on portamento too much. To be fair, they gave me the original version, so maybe many non-violinists requested "Please give me portamento glides, because I like that." To me way overused.

OK I am telling you, they both sound great and you will have fun with either, but lets get practical and talk about the sampler. Embertone uses Kontakt. Virharmonic uses UVI. Rather than describe it, I made a video comparing load times for them both.

Everyone realize, This is a review right out of the box. It is possible that UVI had editing capabilities that I did not or could not explore that would blow Kontakt right out of the water. Being an engineer, I had to include this, but no effects were added to the sounds. This both right out of the box. Both fun, but the loading time for Virhamonic kills it for me. I have a state of the art computer. My operating system is not just on an SSD. It is on a special SSD stick that uses 8 busses to the memory and PCI rather than one. I have 128 GB of memory with the ability to go to 256 GB. Both of the libraries are on the same SSD. The chip is 10 CPUs with 20 threads. The video card is to die for. It is powerful.

It was the perfect computer for this load test. With it, I can lay in front of a fire for the evening in 3 minutes! ☺

OK, with that load of bullocks in mind, here is the load time comparison (you be the judge... both the same fun!):

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=fPaYmL8ixDc 

With UVI, you can always go clean you bathroom or give your fish a bath, oops, I meant give you cat a bath while you wait, so equal fun equals buy the one that you like. If you are having fun, chances are that one day I will have fun listening to your music.


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## Maxfabian (Sep 30, 2017)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> I read this whole post. Nobody seemed to have both. It was all about opinions "If I had both." Really what you said is exactly correct. I have both, so I decided to do a shootout. My shootout is not about which one sounds better. It is about which more fun to play. I am not even a violinist. I am a woodwind player and a bassist hoping beyond hoping to get a solo violin library that will convince even me that it sounds like the violinists that I played with in orchestras years ago. But my my main goal is to have fun, even if I do stuff that real violinists can't do. I want to have fun with these libraries and create music that sounds like what I want my music to sound like, even if I don't make any money doing it. I want to have fun.
> 
> So this shootout comparing what I did using Virharmonic and Embertone is all about me telling other musicians which one was more fun for me. I am a bass player and I learned piano by taking my guitar and transposing note for note what I could play on guitar onto the keyboard as a child, so I don't know doodley squat about keyboards, but I know have to have fun with music. To me, the keyboard is just another outlet to have fun with music.
> 
> ...




Thanks so much for that detailed information and the effort making the test tracks. I get the essence of your message and personally still think the sound of the Bohemian violin sounds more alive to me. 
Thanks again

Cheers!


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Sep 30, 2017)

Maxfabian said:


> Thanks so much for that detailed information and the effort making the test tracks. I get the essence of your message and personally still think the sound of the Bohemian violin sounds more alive to me.
> Thanks again
> 
> Cheers!



They are both excellent. This post was all about "If I can only afford only one, which one should I get?" Of course everyone should have them both. But if you were looking for a classic violin and asked me should I buy a Stradivarius or an Amati, I'd say splurge, but one of each. Virharmonic made an excellent and very fun to play instrument. I have everything that they ever made. They are true craftsmen! So they are Stradivarius and Embertone is Amati. Which one should you buy? I say save up your money and get one of each. But out of the box, I could play double stops with Embertone. Bohemian, out of the box, one note at a time. That was the real edge for fun for me. Alive to your ears is a good thing. You made the right choice! When you are comparing 2 excellent products and pick one, there is no bad choice, so you made the right choice!


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Sep 30, 2017)

Mystic said:


> I have two problems with Bohemian Violin which I've mentioned before:
> 
> 1. It's essentially "early access" and is falling into the same problem that early access videogames have in that they delay, then delay again, then delay some more. I expect it will be a long time before the next expansion comes and while I appreciate them being a bit transparent with their scheduling, it means absolutely nothing if they can't reach the deadlines they are setting. I'm all for delaying a product in order to make sure it's working properly but where is the line drawn to what is acceptable when delaying?
> 
> ...



Yes, I agree with you 100% Mystic, which is why I say that today that I would reach for Joshua Bell first myself, but, the the differences you suggest are subtle things. Things that only a fine tuned ear and years of musical training can detect. Virharmonic will tweak their library because of what you say and then it will be impossible to choose. I again say, we all know that there will never be a library that will please a real violinist. But both of these libraries, to a non-violinist are excellent fun, as is! Both Embertone and Virharmonic are at the genius level. They will drive each other to excellence trying to outdo the other one. They are both fun now, but trust me, there is more fun on the way. Alexander Bell is competing with Thomas Alva Edison. But in the background, Albert Einstein is making his own nuclear solo violin library Haha


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Sep 30, 2017)

I got challenged about my last video. It is possible that there is a setting in UVI that I am unaware of to make the loading times better. I am just showing you out of the box results. This limit that I present is probably a problem with UVI, not Virharmonic, but they did choose UVI, so I rest my case. Also, I accidentally lied in a prior post. I only have 64 GB of RAM, expandable to 128 GB. I think that I was having a techno future fantasy before. LOL


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## Mystic (Sep 30, 2017)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> Yes, I agree with you 100% Mystic, which is why I say that today that I would reach for Joshua Bell first myself, but, the the differences you suggest are subtle things. Things that only a fine tuned ear and years of musical training can detect. Virharmonic will tweak their library because of what you say and then it will be impossible to choose. I again say, we all know that there will never be a library that will please a real violinist. But both of these libraries, to a non-violinist are excellent fun, as is! Both Embertone and Virharmonic are at the genius level. They will drive each other to excellence trying to outdo the other one. They are both fun now, but trust me, there is more fun on the way. Alexander Bell is competing with Thomas Alva Edison. But in the background, Albert Einstein is making his own nuclear solo violin library Haha


I hope Virharmonic does tweak it. It will become that much more valuable to me since I own both. Always good to have multiple options to choose from.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 30, 2017)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> It is possible that there is a setting in UVI that I am unaware of to make the loading times better.



Click the wrench button in top left, Preferences->Streaming, make sure it's set to "Very fast - SSD". To me it looks like you didn't even go here and left it at default (which is "intended for" 5400 RPM drives).

The big problem is that UVI Workstation/Falcon doesn't support background loading like Kontakt does (though JB still loads for some time after the GUI is shown, it DOES have a lot of samples, but you can at least partially play it even though not all samples are loaded - with Bohemian or any other UVI library you just can't). UVI has been aware of this for quite some time now, but nothing happened on that front just yet...


Also, you're using the 96k version in the video, which WILL use up much more RAM and take more time to load, so in that regard it's a very unfair comparison... To be on equal footing with JB, use the other version to compare RAM usage.


Bohemian Violin *fully *loads in 23 seconds over here on a Samsung 850 EVO (48k version, using the SSD streaming setting).


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Sep 30, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> Click the wrench button in top left, Preferences->Streaming, make sure it's set to "Very fast - SSD". To me it looks like you didn't even go here and left it at default (which is "intended for" 5400 RPM drives).
> 
> The big problem is that UVI Workstation/Falcon doesn't support background loading like Kontakt does (though JB still loads for some time after the GUI is shown, it DOES have a lot of samples, but you can at least partially play it even though not all samples are loaded - with Bohemian or any other UVI library you just can't). UVI has been aware of this for quite some time now, but nothing happened on that front just yet...
> 
> ...




Goodness Mario. I am so happy that you jumped in. I am your biggest fan. I have every library that you ever programmed. I am not saying UVI is bad, but people are making it sound like I an disrespecting UVI. I love UVI and Falcon, but the person who started this thread was simply asking "I cannot afford both Virharminic Bohemian and Embertone Joshua Bell." I seemed to be the only person who had both so I did scientific tests The person wanted to know which one to buy. I kept saying over and over again is buy the one hat you like. They are both incredible.

But if we are going to get into this setting debate, I flipped that switch in UVI Falcon and it was much better, but still not as fast as Kontakt. You are right. What's so is so what regarding the original question from the user. People only notice the words that I wrote that are controversial to them Nobody has noticed that I keep saying to everyone over and over again, "Both libraries are incredible! So buy either and you will have so much fun!

Damn. I was trying to answer a simple question from a peer and I suddenly got into a fight. I was trying to answer the user's question and the next thing I know, the Internet cops are at my house and I am in jail just for having an opinion. WTF! I live in America. Where the hell did my freedom of speech go? Not allowed in this new world, apparently.

Here is your flip switch idea in action. It did help and it made Falcon reasonable to use, but we can we not appease UVI by saying that they are just a good as Kontakt just we think that they are nice humans?


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## Lode_Runner (Sep 30, 2017)

noises on said:


> Wait a few weeks for Emotional Violin from Harmonic Subtones.


Are you sure it's only a few weeks away? They said on Facebook in June that it'd be out in August and have been silent since then.


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## SoNowWhat? (Sep 30, 2017)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> Goodness Mario. I am so happy that you jumped in. I am your biggest fan. I have every library that you ever programmed. I am not saying UVI is bad, but people are making it sound like I an disrespecting UVI. I love UVI and Falcon, but the person who started this thread was simply asking "I cannot afford both Virharminic Bohemian and Embertone Joshua Bell." I seemed to be the only person who had both so I did scientific tests The person wanted to know which one to buy. I kept saying over and over again is buy the one hat you like. They are both incredible.
> 
> But if we are going to get into this setting debate, I flipped that switch in UVI Falcon and it was much better, but still not as fast as Kontakt. You are right. What's so is so what regarding the original question from the user. People only notice the words that I wrote that are controversial to them Nobody has noticed that I keep saying to everyone over and over again, "Both libraries are incredible! So buy either and you will have so much fun!
> 
> ...



I don't think anyone was having a go at you or your posts. I took your message as you intended it and I appreciated the comparison from your end including technical aspects. @EvilDragon was just pointing out a way to make that comparison more appropriate. 

BoVo and JBV are both tremendous and fun as you say. I'm away on holidays now but can't wait to get back and play some more.


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## EvilDragon (Oct 1, 2017)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> Here is your flip switch idea in action.



You're still loading the 96k version. There are two versions of Bohemian and they are separate downloads. So replace your 96k version with 48k one, in your Virharmonic account.







That will give you a much fairer comparison. Also, while the GUI shows up very fast in Kontakt, it is NOT done loading. Wait until all samples are loaded (you have that meter below instrument header filling up with white that will disappear once all samples are loaded), time it, then compare. The only difference is that with UVI you don't have background loading so you really have to wait before playing. But with 48k version this really isn't a lot.


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## gregh (Oct 1, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> You're still loading the 96k version. Load the OTHER file, which is 48k version. As mentioned, on my SSD it loads in 23 seconds, fully.


lol - I use this with 16G of RAM off a 7200 drive - takes forever to load but once it is loaded it is fine (in Reaper)


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Oct 1, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> You're still loading the 96k version. There are two versions of Bohemian and they are separate downloads. So replace your 96k version with 48k one, in your Virharmonic account.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



True dat Mario. Goodness gracious, I was just trying to express an opinion, which is what the original poster asked me to do. They might have well asked me "Which color is better red or blue?" Well I would have said "Well blue has a shorter wavelength and gets scattered the most and because of that we are called the blue planet, so I vote for blue. But going to Mars, the red planet, for the first time is not money wasted." I was never trying to present myself as an expert. I am a bass player, not an expert violinist. He was asking which one should I buy? True, my comparison videos were not scientific. If you go under the hood and know how engines work, you can make a 6 cylinder Dodge beat an old fashioned 8 cylinder Dodge Hemi on the strip. But if you don't have that knowledge, buy a Hemi!

To anyone who reads this, my opinion does not matter anyway. I am no expert but I do have an opinion. They are both excellent libraries! You will have fun with either. If you know how to tweak UVI Falcon, then you can make it load as fast as Kontakt. So forget all that I said. I don't know what the hell I am talking about anyway. So forget that I even expressed an uninformed opinion.

By the way, I was not complaining about UVI. My system handles 96K very well and I can load 20 96K libraries all day long. I can load 15 instances of Uhe Diva and my system is barely taking a breath. The original question asker was simply asking what are the differences? So I explored that question because I had both libraries. I never said that one of them was bad. But you are right, I was not scientific in my opinion. I was just saying what I saw, out of the box. I'll shut up and sing now.


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## rottoy (Oct 1, 2017)

Zhao Shen said:


> If you're looking for solo strings in general, CSSS or CineStrings SOLO might be more your speed.


And I would like to add that CSSS and Cinestrings Solo go really well together.


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## EvilDragon (Oct 1, 2017)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> So forget all that I said. I don't know what the hell I am talking about anyway. So forget that I even expressed an uninformed opinion.



Don't feel attacked, bro. I was just correcting information.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Oct 1, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> Don't feel attacked, bro. I was just correcting information.


I was not feeling attacked. I like it when you correct me. You are a guru to me. Typing in a forum is so impersonal. You don't get to hear the excitement in my voice. I liked what you said. Keep correcting me. You always make me a wee bit smarter. Plus, when you lend voice to thought, you teach others on the forum.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Oct 1, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> Don't feel attacked, bro. I was just correcting information.


 By the way, teachers like you have been correcting me all of my life. I never take offense at being corrected. My third grade teacher was named Miss Spell. My fifth grade teacher taught me everything that I know about card games. Her name was Miss Deal. I wish that my sixth grade teacher was named Miss Understood, but sadly she corrected me a lot also. Her name was Miss Spoke.


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## constaneum (Oct 1, 2017)

lol


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Oct 6, 2017)

As a stinger, let me apologize to everyone. My data presented was not scientific as Evil Dragon pointed out. But how many people really know all of those settings in Falcon/UVI? True, I did not look at the sample rate of Joshua Bell before the tests. I tried to say that it was a subtle difference, but when I posted the first loading time video, the thread went astray because of the flaws in my experiment were pointed out by experts and that became important to me, improving the experiment, not how I felt about the 2 libraries.. I am no expert in Kontakt or UVI, but I use them both, as a hobbyist. I do know the settings in Kontakt better because I have had it years longer. People were wondering which one to buy and nobody with both responded, so I did and just tried to say the differences to me. Not scientific absolute differences and what I say is fact, but the differences to me, a regular average musician.

So let me end this thread that I ruined with my ignorance with the only response that I should have posted in the first place.

They are both excellent! If you can buy them both, get them both. I did not make this statement yet. If you cannot afford them both, flip a coin and you will be happy with the one that you got. They are both more fun than a bucket of crawdads are to a child.


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## markleake (Oct 6, 2017)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> But how many people really know all of those settings in Falcon/UVI?


Probably most of us know about it... but no worries. I think we get your point though, you don't need to keep apologising.


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## markleake (Oct 6, 2017)

And on topic, for solo work I think I like the Bohemian slightly better, after having listened to various comparisons/demos. It just sounds more natural to me. But maybe that is my bias speaking, as I don't have the JB. I've had no real problems with UVI, and load times are fine.

I've yet to make my mind up about the other contenders, such as the new CSSS - it isn't as easily playable or striking as the Bohemian, but the two violins (and viola and cello) can sound beautiful in the right context, and so far it seems they work better than the Bohemian or JB at chamber/quartet style or as first chairs. I don't have CineStrings Solo to compare, and have heard less done with that library, but would love to hear what people think on how it compares to the others.


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## bvaughn0402 (Oct 6, 2017)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> I was not feeling attacked. I like it when you correct me. You are a guru to me. Typing in a forum is so impersonal. You don't get to hear the excitement in my voice. I liked what you said. Keep correcting me. You always make me a wee bit smarter. Plus, when you lend voice to thought, you teach others on the forum.



Yep EvilDragon is the "bomb dot com". I was REALLY worried those forum changes meant him leaving here. I am SO glad he is still here.

He is one of a handful of people here that I always pay attention to when they post.


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## Fleer (Oct 6, 2017)

Okay, I'm a flute player (traverso), not a violinist, but I do have many violin libraries. This one from Embertone is the one that makes me feel like a violinist. That's the highest praise in my book. Congrats on a simply divine Joshua Bell Violin.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Oct 6, 2017)

markleake said:


> And on topic, for solo work I think I like the Bohemian slightly better, after having listened to various comparisons/demos. It just sounds more natural to me. But maybe that is my bias speaking, as I don't have the JB. I've had no real problems with UVI, and load times are fine.
> 
> I've yet to make my mind up about the other contenders, such as the new CSSS - it isn't as easily playable or striking as the Bohemian, but the two violins (and viola and cello) can sound beautiful in the right context, and so far it seems they work better than the Bohemian or JB at chamber/quartet style or as first chairs. I don't have CineStrings Solo to compare, and have heard less done with that library, but would love to hear what people think on how it compares to the others.



Isn't incredible that we can talk about which we like better, when both are so good, or as you point out all 3 are so good? So you have all 3 and your comparison is from personal experience with all 3? I only have two of them. Bohemian is the easiest to play by far and has the lowest learning curve for a non-violinist. In other words, the limitations are on how much time you spend practicing and honing your keyboard skills, less time under the hood. But for me, without lifting the hood on Embertone's, I could play similar music but when I lifted up the hood, there was a Hemi engine in there, begging me "Come on man, let's go to NASCAR! Tweak me" Virharmonic's script is better if you just want to drive a car with a hemi, but Embertone's script is like "OK, you don't have to tweak me and you'll win a few races at the strip. But if you learn who I am and how to get the most out of me, you'll be ready for Daytona!"

But that comes with a learning curve to do that. Both of them take practice to get the best, but if you also put in every other day as a technician, rather than a musician, I think that the Embertone can take one to a higher place.

I was going to stay quiet finally but @markleake, you squeezed another opinion out of me. LOL


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Oct 6, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Okay, I'm a flute player (traverso), not a violinist, but I do have many violin libraries. This one from Embertone is the one that makes me feel like a violinist. That's the highest praise in my book. Congrats on a simply divine Joshua Bell Violin.




Flute rules!


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## Fleer (Oct 6, 2017)

Also have a look at this Washington Post article featuring Joshua Bell:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/pearls-before-breakfast-can-one-of-the-nations-great-musicians-cut-through-the-fog-of-a-dc-rush-hour-lets-find-out/2014/09/23/8a6d46da-4331-11e4-b47c-f5889e061e5f_story.html?utm_term=.cc71652d798a


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## blougui (Oct 7, 2017)

bvaughn0402 said:


> Yep EvilDragon is the "bomb dot com". I was REALLY worried those forum changes meant him leaving here. I am SO glad he is still here.
> 
> He is one of a handful of people here that I always pay attention to when they post.


Same here 
- Erik


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## Fleer (Oct 7, 2017)

And here


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## StillLife (Oct 7, 2017)

Strangest thing... I am really enjoying the Bell Violin, but when I opened it in Komplete Kontrol today the Gui was broken: no pictures, just blank rectangles without text. Tried to load it in Kontakt: same. Anyone else has experienced this and knows how to get the gui back?


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## SGordB (Oct 18, 2017)

I think I've watched all of the Joshua Bell Violin videos and listened to all the demos, but this walkthrough uploaded yesterday by Embertone really knocks it out of the park for me:  It's the best demo I've seen of what the violin is capable of in the hands of someone who knows how to play it. I don't have it - or Bohemian violin - just early gen VST violins: EastWest Gypsy, VSL solo strings... Very tempted to treat myself to one of the new gen VSTs - probably JBV - come the next sale.


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## Vik (Oct 18, 2017)

Impressive.


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## Fleer (Oct 18, 2017)

Great walkthrough, true to tone. Remarkable, highly remarkable instrument.


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## mventura (Jan 5, 2018)

I just got the JB violin and it has blown me away. It can handle fast legatos like butter (doesn't smear or sound synthetic). I have read that the SWAM and CH solo violins also perform great under fast legato. What about the Bohemian violin? Does someone mind sharing a demo of that? I don't care if it sounds great under slow passages, lots of solo violins do that. Thx!


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