# Advice for a synth newbie



## sIR dORT (Feb 13, 2019)

So....... I'm currently trying out the Zebra 2 demo right now, and as a person with almost no previous experiences with synths, I am having trouble get something different then a normal kind of boring 2 dual oscillator sound with some filters, combs, and shapers. Is a synth like that too tall of an order for a synth newb to tackle (i.e. is starting out with Omni a better idea), or is it good to slog through it.

Sincerely,
A broke teenager


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## dgburns (Feb 13, 2019)

The Logic Pro X stock synths are FANTASTIC, maybe even better then most bought synths. Why not use that?


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## sIR dORT (Feb 13, 2019)

dgburns said:


> The Logic Pro X stock synths are FANTASTIC, maybe even better then most bought synths. Why not use that?


I have Ableton Live 9, not Logic :/ Their synths aren't great. Interesting about Diva/Repro5 tho.


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## MaxOctane (Feb 13, 2019)

Every minute spent asking about soft synths, when you haven't already bought Diva, is a minute wasted for yourself and others. Seriously it's that good.

_To be a bit more specific_: it's fantastic for smooth sounds, retro-80s, Blade Runner, etc.


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## wst3 (Feb 13, 2019)

Zebra is a deep synth, I've owned it for a little over a year now, and I still feel like I am scratching the surface. (And I've been at this since synthesizer meant large, monophonic, patch cords, etc<G>!)

Repro and Diva may be better starting points. A lot depends on what you want to do with synthesizers.

Also, don't look down on the "standard" architecture. People have made absolute magic with two oscillators, a filter or two, and a VCA (and a noise generator, and a ring moderator, and...)

I have been known to suggest the ARP 2600 manual as a fantastic starting point. It is available from the author HERE.

And the nice folks at Wayoutware share their ARP 2600 manual freely. (Jim M had a hand in this one too)

Sam Ecoff has a couple excellent books as well, and he shares them freely too:
Fundamentals of Music Technology
Basics of Music Technology I
Basics of Music Technology II
(the later two cover other studio gear, but it's all good to know)

There is also an on-line course - Syntorial - that I am really enjoying. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I highly recommend checking it out.

Lots of great resources, and do not give up on Zebra - it is a remarkable synth!


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## kgdrum (Feb 13, 2019)

+1 Diva & Repro is a great way to go!


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## String-for-sale (Feb 13, 2019)

At the same price range, you can also look at Synthmaster.


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## sIR dORT (Feb 13, 2019)

wst3 said:


> Zebra is a deep synth, I've owned it for a little over a year now, and I still feel like I am scratching the surface. (And I've been at this since synthesizer meant large, monophonic, patch cords, etc<G>!)
> 
> Repro and Diva may be better starting points. A lot depends on what you want to do with synthesizers.
> 
> ...


I'll try not to - can't/unrealistic to compare myself to synth masters like Zimmer. Thanks for the input, this is what I needed guys.


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## jmvideo (Feb 13, 2019)

If you can afford it, get an analogue hardware synth. The difference in sound quality is night and day. I used to think DIVA sounded pretty good until I A/B'd with a hardware synth. Aint nothin like the real thang, bay-bee....


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## kgdrum (Feb 13, 2019)

String-for-sale said:


> At the same price range, you can also look at Synthmaster.




I have Sythmaster and I couldn’t disagree more Diva & Repro are in a different class.
I only got Synthmaster because it was on sale for about $20 and I can’t remember the last time I used it.
U-he all the way!


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## Jeremy Gillam (Feb 13, 2019)

Dear broke teenager,

Something I wish I'd done sooner when I was first getting into making my own sounds with synthesizers (and not just flipping through presets) is to have gotten my hands on an analog synth with actual knobs, buttons, and patch cables. The first synth I bought that wasn't included with a DAW or a bundle was Zebra2, because Hans Zimmer said it was the best (and it is), but I was in way over my head at first when it came to actually programming it. When I eventually did get an Arturia Microbrute and learned how to make horrible and beautiful noises with that in combination with effects in my DAW, I found when I went back to Zebra all of a sudden everything started to make a whole hell of a lot more sense. 

I'm not saying that analog is better than digital, it's just that for me the experience of having something physical to touch and play with was more deeply instructive than any mouse-clicking or manual-reading or YouTube-tutorial-viewing at the beginning. Just something to think about!

JG


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## jcrosby (Feb 13, 2019)

Zebras definitely a bold 1st move... lots of great advice in this thread, as others have said the current NI/u-he deal is great. Although Duvas approachable, it isn’t short on power features either... 

Abletons synths are pretty mediocre, but wavetables actually pretty good...


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## DS_Joost (Feb 14, 2019)

sIR dORT said:


> So....... I'm currently trying out the Zebra 2 demo right now, and as a person with almost no previous experiences with synths, I am having trouble get something different then a normal kind of boring 2 dual oscillator sound with some filters, combs, and shapers. Is a synth like that too tall of an order for a synth newb to tackle (i.e. is starting out with Omni a better idea), or is it good to slog through it.
> 
> Sincerely,
> A broke teenager



What you are doing is trying to find a synth to makes you a better programmer, instead of what you should do, look at it exactly the other way around. And yes, Zebra isn't well suited for those just starting out programming synths. Omnisphere is nice, but not good if you really want to become a good synth programmer (if that is exactly what you want). It has many samples, and that offers really great possibilities, but what it does is also kinda hide that people can't model sounds worth a grain of salt. What I mean with that is, you can take an interesting sample, put a filter on it, some ADSR, and call it a great synth patch. But, ask yourself, have you actually made it yourself, or was the sample great to begin with? Omnisphere is great for inspiration, but not for learning actual SYNTHESIS (yes, it can do great synthesis, indeed, but it's not a good for learning it), in my opinion. It's also not a very well laid out synthesizer in my opinion (if you really want to do the programming part, not tweaking part). It's feature packed, yes, and that is great. But for true synth programming there are much leaner, much more ideal alternatives.

What you need is a simple synth, with 2-3 oscillators, a filter, ADSR, some LFO's, and preferably an assignable Mod Envelope. Combine that with some FX in your DAW and go to town! That's it. If you think that's limiting, consider that many of the most iconic synth sounds were made back when most synthesizers were really, really simple (albeit expensive!) affairs. Thing is though, back then, people didn't have the moolah to buy lots of synths, and VST's were unheard of. So if you bought a synth, what you saw is what you got, and what you got is what you used. Take a simple synth, and use the heck out of it until it's run completely dry (and some simple looking synths are deeper than you think!).

That last part is the most important part. One very prevalent part of this forum is the constant presence of GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome). Proof is in some posts in this thread as well (buy X synth! Buy that one, it's sooooo good).

Don't listen to that. Whilst some of the suggestions are indeed good synths, look at what your DAW offers. Which DAW do you use? I know that Mai Tai in Studio One is fantastic. Retrologue in Cubase is also really great. Heck, Reaper has this thing called ReaSynth that would be suitable to your needs if you stack some instances. Logic has some great ones as well. As does Ableton, and Digital Performer, and FL Studio, and on and on and on...

Don't buy things if you haven't even touched what you might already have.

Here's a free synth that will suit your needs just fine:

https://tal-software.com/products/tal-noisemaker







Is it the best synth you can get? The answer to that is in the eye of the beholder, but it IS a good starting synth to learn the ropes. And believe me, like I said, many iconic patches were created on synths that weren't much different in features from this one. Think to yourself: if they could do it, so can I. If you can't get interesting sounds out of this one, you won't make yourself a better programmer by buying another synth. Oh, and if you're doubting, it does sound seriously good!

Here's a free (and gaudy looking, but don't be fooled) and seriously in depth synth that also sounds bullocks good. I suggest learning this one as well, you'd be surprised how many professionals are using it (secretly of course). Perhaps use this once the above one has worn it's course:

https://www.kvraudio.com/product/synth1-by-ichiro-toda






Here's a good, very well known and seriously in-depth course on synthesis. Don't be mistaken by it's age, synthesis hasn't changed that much since, especially not the basics. Gordon Reids Synth Secrets takes you from the absolute basics of sound to the very complex all in one series. For me, there's no better reading resource:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/7w2dcsqmkbeduea/Synth+Secrets+Complete.pdf

For the absolute basics, watch these. They're old, but good. And the humor is really dry. What the guy says though, is absolute truth:



Don't forget there's a part two as well.

Moral to this story: don't listen to people telling you to buy x or y or z. Learning synthesis is done by learning synthesis, not by being a new synthesizer. Once you got that down, you know yourself what synthesizer you want and need. One man's trash is another man's treasure and all that...

So here, broken teenager. All of this, before you've even spend a single dime. Isn't the internet awesome?


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## babylonwaves (Feb 14, 2019)

whatever you do, get a synth with substractive synthsis like diva or repro - both are fantastic offers. I probably would gravitate towards repro, because it is less flexible (which is good when you start out).

and of course starting out with a free synth is never wrong unless the synth is so shitty that you give up after a while for the wrong reasons


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## vitocorleone123 (Feb 14, 2019)

Great post above. Start free. Read. Watch videos. Use free synths (the 2 listed are good). Also really good advice that I'd echo: save up and get an analog hardware synth. I made music for a long time with soft synths, but didn't really start to understand until I bought a used Roland SE-02 last year that's loaded with knobs. Diving straight into something like Zebra will result in a lot of frustration and potentially not a lot of learning - ultimately, music should be enjoyable, not a chore (at least not a chore if it's a hobby!). I started with found/made samples in a free "DAW".

Alternatively, if you already have an iOS device, that's another path for getting into music for relatively little money (compared to PC or hardware). Visit the audiobus forums if you go this direction. You can make whole songs on an iPhone. Or use an iPhone and iPad as separate outboard effects to your PC DAW that your hardware synth is connected to. Lots of fun.


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## ed buller (Feb 14, 2019)

Lot's of great advice:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BehringerD--behringer-model-d-analog-synthesizer

Surprisingly good......


best

ed


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## Cinebient (Feb 14, 2019)

Maybe first you should post what kind of sounds you are wanting or which genre you want to produce.
Then do not buy all "our" favorites but just demo the synths you think are good and then decide.
But just for interest, my favorites would be P900 (sound better as hardware for me even but mac/AU only) and Dune 3 (beside Alchemy inside Logic).
U-he synths are great as well and they also offer things like microtuning. Repro sounds really good and is easy to use as well.
There are just so many good synths out there today and almost all sound good in one or the other
way. You could also start with some better free synths like U-he Zebralette, Podolski, TyrellN6 etc.
Also in most cases no one will hear a different between great and good synths or even hardware in a mix, with added FX etc.
You also could look into you-tube tutorials how to program synths or consider something like syntorial.


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## vitocorleone123 (Feb 14, 2019)

Oh, forgot to mention that the best (arguably?) overall free DAW is Tracktion 7.
https://www.tracktion.com/products/t7-daw

Learning, skill and experience is more important than the "quality" (expense) of the tools. Learn to make music, have fun, then think about what areas you want to spend (more) money in.

If I was ONLY going to do software (again, I think a hardware monosynth can really help with learning), AND i'd already gotten to know the good free stuff, THEN I'd probably actually buy Dune 3 as of now myself as my first paid synth. It sounds really good and is quite well-rounded and modern. I already have my needs covered, so I personally opted for Diva+Repro+Hive instead of Dune 3. Massive X would also be interesting when available.

If you do go hardware: If you learn best in life by starting from scratch and experimenting and figuring things out that way, a Behringer D is a great start. However, if you're like me, and learn best by dissecting and analyzing and then tweaking, then I suggest getting a hardware synth that has patch memory and a desktop editor so you can load/store your patches and see how others are constructed. No right or wrong - just think of how you best learn.


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## sIR dORT (Feb 14, 2019)

Here's another example - at 1:52 and 3:44 - not the base or the lead, the middle punchy synths with some sort of percussive noise. I don't think it's synphony, I own it, and can't find a sound like that, but correct me if I'm wrong.


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## DS_Joost (Feb 14, 2019)

Sounds simply like a saw and square wave slightly detuned, with a short mod envelope on the filter to create that thwack sound, no attack, bit of decay, no sustain and a little release on the amp envelope. It's a pretty busy arrangement but it also sounds like the mod envelope is also slightly changing the pitch to make it a little more percussive, but ever so slightly over time. Biggest thing I hear though is filter modulation as described above. Then run through an arpeggiator with a little bit of of syncopation in the rhythm. You could also put an LFO repeating in a slow 2 bar or even 4 bar loop to the filter envelope ever so slightly (which is what I also hear) to make the mod enveloped filter go a little bit more open and then back over time, so the 'percussiveness' opens and closes a bit to make it less static. if you haven't got a mod envelope, you can also simply automate the filter envelope in a pattern. You can do this with the described ADSR on the filter cutoff as well.

Very simple stuff, really. Any synth can do this. All of them (well, unless you've got something really isoteric).

This is why learning this stuff is so important. Go read the Synth Secrets, and watch the videos I send you. They teach you a great deal of 'listening' to what you hear, which is the most important asset of creating synth sounds. 'Listening' closely is something that needs practice, believe me, but it is more important in synth programming than simply turning knobs (which is still a great activity in and of itself).

If you want more practice, Syntorial is a great (albeit not cheap) solution to learn how to 'listen'.


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## ed buller (Feb 14, 2019)

What's your email ?

e


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## Bansaw (Feb 16, 2019)

I can recommend VPS Avenger. You can get a demo of that. Amazing sound right out of the box and very easy and fun to program. Its quite intuitive.

Also, Plugin Boutique are offering a free "_introduction to synthesis_" video course with any purchase. Thats worth a look at.
There is a good VPS Avenger producer course from ProducerTech that is about $10 on sale too.
Good luck!


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## String-for-sale (Feb 18, 2019)

kgdrum said:


> I have Sythmaster and I couldn’t disagree more Diva & Repro are in a different class.
> I only got Synthmaster because it was on sale for about $20 and I can’t remember the last time I used it.
> U-he all the way!


My comment was not about fanboy. Many people are listing Synthmaster as their desert-island synth. I guess to each it's own...


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## S.M Hassani (Feb 18, 2019)

I'm surprised nobody mentioned SERUM yet. I think it can be the ideal gateway synth for you:

You can pretty much learn every synth sound design skill using SERUM. It has a dynamic interface, which actually allows you to see what every element is doing. That's a massive help if you're just getting started.

There are plenty of free tutorials out there. I would also recommend "The SERUM Bible" from Shane aka EchoSoundworks on ADSR Tutorials. He's an excellent teacher and a successful sound designer.

Sonically speaking, SERUM can go anywhere if you dare to explore it. I've had one of the most rewarding journeys doing just that. Once you master it, most other synths will naturally fall into your grasp after a 15 min orientation. After that, making exotic analog patches with Diva or RePro will feel like cheating.

I love my other synths and many of them have been mentioned here. But I really think someone in your position should take a good look at SERUM. You can get it from Splice for around $9 a month (Rent to Own) which shouldn't be a financial hurdle for you.

Best of luck!


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## José Herring (Mar 1, 2019)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> Dear broke teenager,
> 
> Something I wish I'd done sooner when I was first getting into making my own sounds with synthesizers (and not just flipping through presets) is to have gotten my hands on an analog synth with actual knobs, buttons, and patch cables. The first synth I bought that wasn't included with a DAW or a bundle was Zebra2, because Hans Zimmer said it was the best (and it is), but I was in way over my head at first when it came to actually programming it. When I eventually did get an Arturia Microbrute and learned how to make horrible and beautiful noises with that in combination with effects in my DAW, I found when I went back to Zebra all of a sudden everything started to make a whole hell of a lot more sense.
> 
> ...


I agree with this a lot.

Hans can say Zebra is the best, but Hans been at it for a very, very long time on synths. He's a great programmer and knows what each thing does. It's astounding really.

I tried for years to grasp complicated soft synths and fell on my face. Even Reason's Thor is way too complicated for a beginner. I poured over manuals, ect. to no avail. Then I too got a microbrute. Mostly because Howard Scar mentioned it. Then it all made sense. Having to mover your own nobs really gets you familiar with what you're trying to do with routing, ect. Then I built a modular synth and that was/is crazy. Patching your own sounds is an eye opener. 

Then, I went back to soft synths and the wealth of options all made sense.


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## spoon (Mar 3, 2019)

Hi 
what about u-he’s Zebralette (Mini-Zebra using one Zebra2 oscillator ) or Podolski?
They are free and maybe a good starting point.

I will check them out (looking to learn this stuff myself). 

https://u-he.com/products/#synths


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## sIR dORT (Mar 4, 2019)

I have Zebralette, does seem like a good starting point, just pretty limited at times. Even though I still don't really know what I'm doing with it yet, I'm enjoying the Zebra2 demo. I still think I need something else, but the wealth of opportunities Zebra2 provides are a blessing when they're not a curse 



spoon said:


> Hi
> what about u-he’s Zebralette (Mini-Zebra using one Zebra2 oscillator ) or Podolski?
> They are free and maybe a good starting point.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the struggle xd 

Also, Diva, Repro, or Serum if I was to get one?


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## spoon (Mar 4, 2019)

sIR dORT said:


> Also, Diva, Repro, or Serum if I was to get one?



Nexus. Nah, just kidding. 

The massive (pun intended) choices today are almost a pain.

I guess it is up to your own liking.

Have you demoed all of the mentioned synths?


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## sIR dORT (Mar 4, 2019)

No, but I will and probably should've before asking my question


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## spoon (Mar 8, 2019)

Hi  
Just wanted to let you know, demoed Serum today...and I really like it a lot. 
There are very good tutorials on YouTube explaining wavetable synthesis. (The manual is superb, too.)

And you can rent to own it for 10 Bucks a month (19 months, splice.com). 

I guess I‘ll stick with Serum.


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## Solarsentinel (Mar 11, 2019)

sIR dORT said:


> I have Ableton Live 9, not Logic :/ Their synths aren't great. Interesting about Diva/Repro5 tho.


Hi , here is a little advice for you: try to learn a little bit about synthesis with free software or soft you already have. And when you will be capable of create sounds you want and learned about the different type of synthesis, you can then choose the right synth for you. This avoid you a lost of money you would spent on synths you don't really want or don't correspond to you at least.

Futhermore there is good synth inside ableton live 9 like operator for analog style. You can do a lot of things with it. But I recommand you to make the update to live 10, and you will benefit the wavetable synth of ableton which is great (like serum) and offer a ton of possibilities.

Finally if you have a little money, you could search a good hardware used synth like korg monologue/minilogue - arturia mini/microbrute - korg volca, etc... it's a good way to learn with an original hardware feeling which you can replicate with you vst synths. It's a good starting point


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## Solarsentinel (Mar 11, 2019)

sIR dORT said:


> I have Zebralette, does seem like a good starting point, just pretty limited at times. Even though I still don't really know what I'm doing with it yet, I'm enjoying the Zebra2 demo. I still think I need something else, but the wealth of opportunities Zebra2 provides are a blessing when they're not a curse
> 
> 
> Welcome to the struggle xd
> ...


3 differents type of synths. Depends of your needs and feelings. That's why i told you to learn first and try the demo inside your project. The most versatile is serum but repro has the sound! 
If you haveto choose, choose the synth which sound the best at your ears, but also very important the one that you feel the most confortable with for create your sounds! Because in fact if a synth is difficult to play, you won't use it even if it sounds great! (This is a personnal thought)


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