# What is your goal in music or have you reached your goal?



## Guy Bacos (Jan 3, 2013)

(You don't need to answer all these questions, just your thoughts on the questions that affects you more.)

I was curious about how others felt about where they are at in their music career. Are you working towards your goal, and if so, what is your goal, specifically? Are you content of where you're at now? Are you frustrated of not going where you would like to go and feel like giving up? If so, why? Are you further ahead than you expected to be? Do you have no goals and take whatever comes your way, which works perfectly well for you? Do you feel it's important to have a goal and is it something that motivates you? Do you feel happy for others, or discouraged, envious or jealous (please be honest) when you see them reaching your goal? Or both. Do you feel, at the end of the line, you get what you deserve? Do you believe luck is involved? etc.


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## Caedwallon (Jan 3, 2013)

This could be interesting! Allow me to chime in, but probably not in that order:

Goals. I don't care for fame, glory or huge monetary gains. I don't care to compete (I'm an artist, not an athlete!); I merely want to express things in my own way. Now that I think about it, my only true "goal" is to express myself in a unique manner. My work is my own reward. I love to experiment, the thrill of trying new things; this is what motivates me the most. For this reason, I can never envy someone for doing something better than I can. 

Am I further ahead than I expected to be? I've learned a lot since I started dabbling in music (and other forms of art that I enjoy and partake in) so, yes!

I've bumped into a lot of difficulties early on. To begin with, I was brought up in a very academic family; there are no artists in my immediate community and they never seemed capable of appreciating art. I didn't know who to look up to or approach for guidance. I was somewhat envious of those who were given freedom to pursue their interests early on. It took me a while to break free and figure things out but in all honesty, I'm still somewhat lost. 

Luck is definitely a factor! There is always something that alters the plan — an unexpected failure or a startling opportunity. Things like these are not predestined. You can't connect the the dots looking forward, they only connect looking back.


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## Arbee (Jan 3, 2013)

Interesting topic Guy. I walked away from music professionally 18 years ago because I had lost my direction and, with a young family and mortgage, found that making a living from music pulled me in too many different directions to the point where I'd completely lost "me" in the process, and I was only enjoying about 5% of the work I was doing.

I'm now in a different place and started putting a new home studio together from scratch 12 months ago. My learning curve is enormous but my goal now is simply to rediscover my own musical identity, to work hard to finesse it, and to reach as many people as possible emotionally with the results, then continuously learn and improve from the feedback that comes with that cyclic process. My goal now is very focused, and I guess I'll know I've reached it if/when there are a growing number of people who value my music enough to pay money for it. Spending time in the "real world" has given me a very different perspective and I'm curious to see how that manifests itself this time around.

Am I envious of others, honestly? There have been a few colleagues over the years with modest talent who landed on their feet being in the right place at the right time with the right contacts. One of them in particular has spent the past 30 years living very comfortably off the royalties from one single TV show theme that still plays many times a day the world over, but hey... :mrgreen: His take on writing music however, which is a bit of a lesson, was "they want crap so I give them crap" 

.


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## rgames (Jan 3, 2013)

I think every true composer has only three goals:

1. Eat something
2. Sleep somewhere
3. Get the music out of his head

Having goals implies strategic thinking - hard-core composers don't care about strategy, they care about the here-and-now and getting the music out of their heads. Then it fills back up again and they're compelled to have another go at it. It's not a conscious, rational decision (though the process of writing music is partly conscious and rational, the decision to do so really is not). It's reactionary.

Regarding your questions about recognition and jealousy - who cares? You know the saying: if you play for the applause, you'll get it because people know that's what you want. But in 100 years nobody will remember who you are.

You can develop strategies and work to win short-term recognition and odds are you'll succeed. It's in some people's nature to cater to those sorts of personalities - you can hunt them down and create a league of followers. But, again, it's not a lasting success, so as I said: who cares?

The irony, of course, lies in the fact that if you really do something remarkable, you will (usually) obtain that recognition. But if your "goal" is recognition, well, you can achieve that without doing anything remarkable. Kim Kardashian, anyone?

So if you want to be a composer or musician then just stick to goals 1-3 above and don't expect much more. That's what I do.

rgames


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 3, 2013)

Right rgames, but you are touching more on the unhealthy side these questions. It can also be used in a healthy way, moderation.... Applause is a very important part of any artist's life, if you are on stage of course, and they are the first to admit that, and they love it! Who wouldn't! But doing it just for the applause, money and fame is where you come quickly to a dead end, and I think that's more your point. But when done in a smart way, keeping your values straight, one wouldn't interfere with the other, and you can enjoy both. I do think we all have thoughts about these things and this is more what I'm asking. And I'm not defining "happiness" through this.


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## Arbee (Jan 3, 2013)

Given how senstive most creative people tend to be (and that includes developers) I would think:

4 Create something that is appreciated, enjoyed and valued by others.

is quite a common goal?

.


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## rgames (Jan 3, 2013)

Guy Bacos @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> Applause is a very important part of any artist's life, if you are on stage of course, and they are the first to admit that, and they love it! Who wouldn't!


I can honestly say that it was never a significant part of the enjoyment for me. Most of my musical career was as performer, not composer, so maybe it's different in that regard. But the rapturous moments I recall occurred during the performances - everything after was of little significance to me. The audience could have stood up and walked out without making a sound - I would have been fine with that (assuming I still got paid, of course).

The accolades I got as a performer were nice but were nothing compared to the sheer joy of making music. The music gives me the buzz, not the applause.

But hey, I've always had a day job outside music. Maybe that's why.

rgames


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 3, 2013)

So what you're saying is, for you it's no different if you perform in front of an empty or full house, as long as you are paid. Right?

Hmm, seems, to me that defeats one essential purpose of music: Communication.

But I'm definitely not saying you can't get high just playing for yourself. However, when there are people listening, I hope the music will connect.


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## rgames (Jan 3, 2013)

The payment is necessary to make it worth everyone's while to keep their chops in shape enough to make music that is worth being part of. The payment is not the motivation, it is simply a necessity to ensure the musical quality is worth coming back for, both as performer and audience.

But, to the point, I never got into the "communicate with the audience" deal. It was enough for me to enjoy it. If the audience does, as well, then that's a bonus. But making the audience happy has never been a motivation for me (as a performer). I think most musicians who are honest with themselves would say the same. Except, of course, those who are in it for the applause.

Of course, if you're making money writing for a film or a commissioned piece of music then the situation is very different. But if you're just doing what you like then the motivation is simply to get the music out of your head, either by writing it down (composer) or performing it (performer). The heck with the audience - they can do what they want with it. Take it or leave it. That's the essence of being an artist: you need to have more belief in your art than anyone else. Otherwise you're not leading anyone anywhere, you're taking orders and seeking approval.

As a business entity working for a film or a commission or whatever, you are, in fact, taking orders. But you are free of that obligation when working on your own time. So, again, if you're an artist then the goal should be simply to get the music out of your head. And eat and have somewhere to sleep.

rgames


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 3, 2013)

rgames @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> But making the audience happy has never been a motivation for me (as a performer). I think most musicians who are honest with themselves would say the same. Except, of course, those who are in it for the applause.



It's not a question of making the audience happy. 

But anyway, thanks for your comments.


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 3, 2013)

*1. Are you working towards your goal, and if so, what is your goal, specifically? Are you content of where you're at now? *
As a writer there are two broad goals: writing and merchandising what you write to have steady income. 

I never allow myself to be content in certain areas because when you do, that's when you let your guard down and you lose your position. 

I will be more content when I overtake Kent Kennan at the college level, and then there's....

*2. Are you frustrated of not going where you would like to go and feel like giving up? If so, why? *
This is hard to write. I'm frustrated that I'm not where I want to be because of a disease, not my ability. It's difficult being a champion in a body that doesn't respond properly. Being a fierce competitor I have an insane desire to _waterboard_ those who say or suggest to me, "those who can - do, those who can't - teach," because I don't want the L'il Academic hung on me. But right now that pays the freight. In 2013, musical things I write will begin paying the freight. And once those skills are up, I will unrelentingly press forward to the high mark.

Re: Giving up. I've learned when you're handed extreme challenges you have to adopt the Stockdale Paradox:

_You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end – which you can never afford to lose – with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be._

In short - here's where it's at, and here's what I'm going to do.

*3. Are you further ahead than you expected to be? *
In some areas, yes, others no. A compositional career is a business in which you merchandise different aspects of your talent and skills. Bloody wheelchair or not, in every area I compete in I shoot to be #1 or #2. 

*4. Do you have no goals and take whatever comes your way, which works perfectly well for you? *
I have 7 year goals through 2020. What I take on has to fit in with where I'm going or I say, "no." 

*5.Do you feel it's important to have a goal and is it something that motivates you?* As a Christian, I have more than a goal, I have Ephesians 2:10 which tells me that in pre-history a set of great and noble works for me to walk in was established. In the Valley of the Shadow of Death, it's that small light you aim for and keep pressing towards because you know your life has purpose, and all you have to do is to keep pressing forward. 

*6. Do you feel happy for others, or discouraged, envious or jealous (please be honest) when you see them reaching your goal? Or both.*
Most of the time I feel legitimately happy for others. My job is to work the plan for my life, and not to get jealous (KJV - covetous) of the path that God set forth for others. 

The only things I've only ever really been jealous over are:

a. Henry Mancini's writing desk;
b. those who use Aeron chairs as Herman Miller won't put the kind of wheels on them I need;
c. guys who don't shave but have "that" look, whereas I just look like a vagrant.

Overall, I'm guided by a statement Mancini once made to me: _Don't criticize the composer who got the film you didn't._

*7. Do you feel, at the end of the line, you get what you deserve?*
Hell, _no_! You get what you plan and execute for. 

*8. Do you believe luck is involved? etc.* In the Sermon On the Mount, it starts off with the Beattitudes and the first word used is Blessed. That's actually a mistranslation. Makarios, the word used there, means happy/lucky/fortunate stemming from the Hebrew word asher which means happy. etc. When you maintain that level of personal happiness, and you have the craft necessary to fulfill the assignments, opportunity comes to you.

From Hebrew, the healed _nephesh_ attracts opportunity, while the damaged _nephesh_ repels it. 

The more the nephesh is healed, the more of a whole person you are with decidedly better people skills to work with, which always enables luck a great deal.


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## dgburns (Jan 3, 2013)

to Peter A.

Deep respect for what you wrote.I wish you godspeed.

david


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## Arbee (Jan 3, 2013)

Thanks for sharing such a heart-felt and authentic response Peter.

While I made the decision that I could provide better for my family away from full time music, in the 18 year gap I never lost faith once that I would return to it one day, and in a more mature and settled frame of mind on my own creative terms.

I like the saying "the harder (and smarter) I work, the luckier I get", and my observation of life is that people tend get what they expect (law of attraction) more than what they deserve.

.


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 3, 2013)

Interesting thread and responses.

As often on VI-C (or any other forum for that matter) I feel a little out of place. My goals I guess aren't really musical, not directly. My primary work goal is to help tell great stories - I use words, sounds and music.

I guess I am further on than I thought I'd be, and pretty content in as much as I've had a ton of work this past year. Best of all, I've been working with some great talented and decent people... I'm kind of a "journey is often more important than the destination" kinda guy. A lot of what I've been doing lately hasn't been scoring to picture though, my favourite thing - lots of theme tunes and so on, which is still a different kind of storytelling I guess. So although I don't really have rigid goals, I'd like proportionately more of that. And I'd love to write more (words).

So that's where I'm different. Music is a crucial part of my life.... but it's only a part. I wanna have fun, work with great people, help tell great stories and get paid. And in my own modest way, I know I'm doing pretty well - just to have work fall in my lap puts me in a better position than so many more talented than I, and I'm very grateful for that. Yes I get what I deserve and luck definitely plays a part, though I do think I've worked hard to get where I am. If I made one smart decision though, it was simply make the most of where I am rather than aim in a direction where I had no contacts and high ambitions, so its certainly not all luck either.

And the point about all that is - by not setting unrealistic goals, I tend not to suffer the frustrated artist thing. I did 10 years ago, very much.... but not any more. Perhaps its an age thing too - if you watch the news for long enough, and if you're financially doing ok working in an industry you love and yet you're not grateful for it, something's gone wrong somewhere.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 3, 2013)

Thanks, and keep 'em coming, good stuff to read. Feels like chatting over a few beers. o-[][]-o

Peter, much appreciated!


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 3, 2013)

> As often on VI-C (or any other forum for that matter) I feel a little out of place. My goals I guess aren't really musical, not directly. My primary work goal is to help tell great stories - I use words, sounds and music.



You shouldn't feel out of place at all. Your primary work goal is excellent. And it's so concisely worded it helps you decide where you should be growing and what you should be studying to become even better at helping to tell great stories. 


You're dead on! Good for you!


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 3, 2013)

Guy, sounds like you've made realistic and wise choices.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 4, 2013)

I don't know about others, but one thing I don't like is when people say things like: "I don't know why you're not already scoring the big films in Hollywood." or "You should be in Hollywood..." or "This piece belongs in a Hollywood picture..." and tons of variations of that sort. And while I love the compliment, at the same time it makes me feel I'm failing somewhere. Of course, there is a lot more to film music than writing good music, so it's not that obvious. Sure, I'd love to score a major film with a full orchestra, so it seems, what I do falls in the shadow of that glamor side of Hollywood. Personally, I don't think about it, but regularly others bring it up and pressure you with that, and that's when it bothers me more. So if I don't get to Hollywood big time, I feel I'll be under expectations.


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 4, 2013)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> I don't know about others, but one thing I don't like is when people say things like: "I don't know why you're not already scoring the big films in Hollywood." or "You should be in Hollywood..." or "This piece belongs in a Hollywood picture..." and tons of variations of that sort. And while I love the compliment, at the same time it makes me feel I'm failing somewhere. Of course, there is a lot more to film music than writing good music, so it's not that obvious. Sure, I'd love to score a major film with a full orchestra, so it seems, what I do falls in the shadow of that glamor side of Hollywood. Personally, I don't think about it, but regularly others bring it up and pressure you with that, and that's when it bothers me more. So if I don't get to Hollywood big time, I feel I'll be under expectations.



Yes, I agree. Your stuff, Guy, is frequently very different / better than much of Hollywood of course. My dad is a longtime fan of orchestral music, and he's really not fussed about anything I do at all, because it all "sounds like film music"! It's a constant reminder to me about a) what I personally like and b) it's such a small subset of what orchestral music is all about. That's what Hollywood is... sadly I like it though!

The other side of it though is that there's such a wide market for filmic music now, outside film itself, and there are real benefits from keeping away from the madness. Chirs Nicolades (posting here as Chris Axia) is one example I always hold in very high regard - he makes excellent original music for high quality TV documentaries on the BBC. To me, that's such a vaild end position. Quality of life-wise, I bet he's happier than most composers in Hollywood who are treated like muck. If you are one of the tiny handful right at the top of the tree I'd imagine things are better, but often working Hollywood composers seem to have a terrible time of it. So if it makes you unhappy / wrecks your life... what's the point? That's very important to me in focusing my aim... to deliberate choose something that seems likely to make me unhappy even if I succeed seems odd.

From both perspectives, people are in thrall of Hollywood. It's easy to see why - the cultrual impact of film is huge, and when it's good its like nothing else. But the times they are a changin', I think. When I saw a big budget Hollywood trailer for a serious reboot of - wait for it - Jack and the Beanstalk - it seems liked the Rubicon had been well and truly crossed. TV drama, meanwhile can be superior to film. For me, it's really about where the good stories are... chances are the best music will follow. LOST had some of the best "film" music of the past decade, imo.

Although concert music isn't really my thing, I'd hope that there would be a rennaisance here. In the popular imagination, I think great damage has been done by what is thought of as "modern music" - experimental and atonal stuff that has only a limited appeal. It would be fantastic to hear someone break into public consciousness who reflected the greats but was not a media composer. I know that's a big subject all of its own though and I've rambled long enough....


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## Dan Mott (Jan 4, 2013)

Cool thread

Maybe people can relate to what I write.

I don't know where I want to be.

I don't know what music I want to write.

Though I do feel like I need to write something. I need to keep sane and writing what I want to hear certainly does the trick because I do not like much that I hear from other artists. It's very few tracks that I will love and those are keepers and are on my hard drive forever.

Sometimes I think I'm not a musician, but I have written a lot of decent tracks in the past that were pop songs that are long gone deleted because I began to hate them. 

I'm pretty lazy too, which get's in the way. Every idea I come up with, I scrap. Though, because we have great samples, it's too easy to get fooled by thinking you have made something great, but really, anyone with decent samples can sound great out of the box and then you think you are awesome because of what you have done.

I have no direction. Only visions and the world of sound I'd like to be in.

I don't really have a goal on what to write, but I have a goal to eventually one day make an album and be truly proud of what I have done and hopefully perfrom them and sell them AND! share them with anyone. I'd like to them to relate to my music and feel something different.... What ever the hell that may be. I may never find it.


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## Daryl (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm not sure that I have long term goals, other than to write what I want, when I want. If it gets to a stage where I am not happy with what I am being asked to write, not happy with the way I'm being treated, or not happy with the projects I'm working on, I just say "no" and move on.

I suppose that the only goal that I have is to write better music, but of course the day that I feel that I will never do anything better is the day to quit. :lol:


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 4, 2013)

Dan-Jay @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> I don't really have a goal on what to write, but I have a goal to eventually one day make an album and be truly proud of what I have done and hopefully perfrom them and sell them AND! share them with anyone. I'd like to them to relate to my music and feel something different.... What ever the hell that may be.



Excellent! When are you starting?


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## Waywyn (Jan 4, 2013)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> Applause is a very important part of any artist's life, if you are on stage of course, and they are the first to admit that, and they love it!



This may sound a bit braggy, but I was standing in front of 9000 people cheering and applauding to us while in my good ole band times. Did I feel good? Hell, yes! Was it awesome? Hell, absolutely? Do I need it? Not really! I absolutely don't wanna miss this experience and it is nice to get such a wealthy feedback from so many people at once, ... but do I need it once in a while? No!

The things which make me happy is when I was able to feed my family at the end of the months. THIS is what makes my life worth more. Being able to feed and support someone with my creativity. What really touched me, if I receive emails of people telling me that if they heard track x or y they instantly started crying, got goosebumps, felt influenced and because of this started something in their life or simply burned tracks on CD in order to listen to it every morning when they drive to work.

This to me is much more than if lots of people cheering up to me ... and to be honest, lots of people just applause because others do it! Writing honest emails coming from the heart, not because being triggered by some mass effect! 

What my personal goal is? Keep exploring and trying out new things, approaches and ways of experiencing music. Basically the same what applies to life and (my personal) reason why I am on this planet and what it is all about: Enjoying every day and appreciate the privilege to be alive which many others didn't get!


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## Stiltzkin (Jan 4, 2013)

Kind of still in the beginning for what I want to do - I'm nowhere near where I want to be, but I'm still young and I have time, I have a plan and I'm sticking to it.

Once I get my studio finished and the film I'm working on gets released, I think I'll have a little bit of a shot to do what I want to do, which is just earn enough from composing to live as I do now, on a full time job salary.

I'd be happy if I were able to do that, but a true dream would be to meet a director that I can sort of go on a journey with, that has an idea about something that I can musically interpret in a unique way, and they would be happy and/or excited to allow these weird musical ideas to be in their film, rather than looking for clichés.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 4, 2013)

Waywyn @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> This to me is much more than if lots of people cheering up to me ... and to be honest, lots of people just applause because others do it! Writing honest emails coming from the heart, not because being triggered by some mass effect!



It's funny, because when I talk about applause, In some ways, I don't make the distinction between that and people telling you directly how your music touched them. If they applaud or cheer, it's because you touched them, so it has to be positive. But all we know is that they appreciated you, we don't know what specifically. Most of us here are composers and not stage performers and we deal much better with personal and direct comments than a cheering crowd of 10,000. Other types of artists, who spend their life in front of large audiences, they feed from that, they absorb it on the spot, it's a magic moment for them. I've heard too many stories about that to not know what I'm talking about. I've been a performer myself most of my life, never 9,000, but can't say I've ever been quite comfortable with the applause and cheering, in fact, I was more looking forward to getting off the stage, getting home with my loved ones and watching a good movie, but still, it always made me happy to know they enjoyed it, it's hard to digest this much appreciation at once, and if we were comfortable with that we probably wouldn't be doing what we do now.


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## Waywyn (Jan 4, 2013)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> Waywyn @ Fri Jan 04 said:
> 
> 
> > This to me is much more than if lots of people cheering up to me ... and to be honest, lots of people just applause because others do it! Writing honest emails coming from the heart, not because being triggered by some mass effect!
> ...



Nicely put! Got ya! 
Don't get me wrong, I think applause is something awesome. I just played so many concerts back then and even though the feedback was mostly great, it felt like many people just applauding because it is a standard behaviour ... and if they don't applaud you, maybe the get affected by the guys standing next to him. You know those overexaggerated situations of when there is total silent after the music has stopped and one guy leads applauding while the crowd simply follows ... I sometimes think if the very first one started booing very self confident, others would rather follow this ... but that may be too much prejustice! Anyway ... totally dig your comment!


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 4, 2013)

I had cheering crazy fans screaming from the top of their lungs, and girls throwing their panties on stage while I was playing Moonlight Sonata. Wait, no that was a dream I had.


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## Waywyn (Jan 4, 2013)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> I had cheering crazy fans screaming from the top of their lungs, and girls throwing their panties on stage while I was playing Moonlight Sonata. Wait, no that was a dream I had.



Hahahaha! Well, we played that other stuff where it was supposed to happen ... didn't happen!


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## KEnK (Jan 4, 2013)

Guy-

It's interesting to me that you put this thread in the "Working in the Industry" subforum, 
rather than in "Composition" or "Universe Repair", 
where it would be more in line w/ my thinking on "Music Related Goals". 

I'm in the unusual and fortunate position of having a Wonderful Wife w/ a successful career,
so I get to be "Artist in Residence". 
This is a Primary Life Goal that has been Achieved! (Thanks to her generosity- but Artists have always needed Patrons)

I come from a family of Multi-Instrumentalists, and adopted that path early in life.
Guitar is my main instrument, followed by keys and percussion.
I look at these as instrument groups- 
so within each group are several instruments, each with different but related technical criteria.

Long ago I played Alto Sax, I stopped that because my sax needed more repair than it was worth,
and I decided at that time to focus on my primary instrument for some years.

Recently I acquired a clarinet, so I'm beginning to play reeds again.
When I play the clarinet well enough, I'll get a sax again.

A few years ago I began playing the erhu.
This has lead me to trying my hand at a crappy but forgiving e-viola.
I did try violin long ago but never got very far w/ it. The viola seems more suited to my finger size.
Pretty sure I'll be getting a real viola in the next year or 2, with a cello perhaps on the horizon.

I've also begun playing wood flutes again. (One Indian, a set of Dizi's, and an African flute or 2)
And oh yes- the accordion! (Somehow different enough from the keyboard family to deserve it's own sentence)

The only way to keep on top of that many instruments is through a system of rotation.
Some instruments go on the back burner while other are being "dusted off" or diligently worked on.

Playing reasonably well is an achievable goal on most of these, 
but I need to continuously revise and set goals to keep up with all of them.

Guitar always remains Primary, percussion and keys usually rotate as Secondary.
Right now I'm working w/ the e-viola and wood flutes at the expense of the clarinet, keys and accordion.
But once I achieve the technical goals I've set for the flutes and viola, I'll swap them out w/ something else.

So I'm a Life Long Learner, always w/ a new set of rotating achievable goals.
Another goal I've set is to be able to Compose only w/ paper- no instrument references.
This requires more time than I give to it, but also deserves mention.

Over time, I've become completely repulsed by the rat race known as the Music Industry.
I took my ball and went home a long time ago.

I still get paid gigs, but mostly do only what I want to do.
My main love is performing. (mostly jazz)
For me it's about the possibility of reaching someone emotionally in a very profound way.
This happens occasionally, and it is it's own reward.

For me Music is more of a Sacred Calling than a Commodity.
So you can guess that I can be somewhat put off by the blatant commercialism 
that this Wonderful Forum often reeks of.

There is such an orientation here to "Film Music" that sometimes I think the name of the forum should be changed
from "Virtual Instrument Control" to "Visual Impediment Complex", :wink: 
which I see as a disease infecting the Art I love. :roll: 

It is refreshing to see that there are a couple of people here who see themselves as Artists.

k


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 4, 2013)

KEnK @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> so I get to be "Artist in Residence".
> This is a Primary Life Goal that has been Achieved! (Thanks to her generosity- but Artists have always needed Patrons)



How true.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 4, 2013)

Parents, also influence our way of thinking. There's not one time I see my dad where he doesn't bring up: "What you need is a big film contract", so every time I see him, it's again, in my head, not reaching your expectation dad, sorry.

I should become a buddhist.


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## KEnK (Jan 4, 2013)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> I should become a buddhist.



I've naturally evolved towards a Buddhist philosophy.
It's a very helpful frame of mind,
especially if you're involved in the music industry.

k


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## impressions (Jan 4, 2013)

*1. Are you working towards your goal, and if so, what is your goal, specifically? Are you content of where you're at now? *

I'm always working to my goal/s- working as a musician, which i am, trying to earn more money than i had, which is improving but not to a content level. 
I have tons of goals- economically, professionally, spiritually.
the economical goal is self explanatory. make money through music, live by the art as much as possible, and see how far goes the rabbit hole.

professionally, i think its every composer or musician goal, to reach mastery level.
I'm too far away from any of that, and I most probably will never get there, but it's a very good motivator, especially since there is so much i can learn from.

spiritually, I want my music to move me, when it doesn't happen, i can feel like a failure, as harsh as it sounds. i want every project to have a meaning to me, emotionally. and usually it does. even if it seems like a mundane "Assignment" for cash, i cannot be at my best when I'm not involved wholly. 
so my goal in this area would be to get a project that can get the best of my abilities, one that i can enjoy and strive for greatness in it-and it will manifest by the music i create, or help others get to it(like performance).


*2. Are you frustrated of not going where you would like to go and feel like giving up? If so, why? *
always. the market is saturated, tough, and elusive. supporting a family with this unstable profession is almost like suicide, and i don't have those iron nerves. it takes away the fun when you need money and afraid to lose clients etc. its just so unstable and unrewarding in so many ways it makes me want to quit ever so often.
but so far i've only did leave once.


*3. Are you further ahead than you expected to be? *

Nah, there are guys in my country with half of my abilities that get more money and gigs than me, while there are others that are incredibly better and do get by though. so no, I'm somewhere in the beginning. but not at level 1.

*4. Do you have no goals and take whatever comes your way, which works perfectly well for you? *
It never works perfectly, but it works out usually, sometimes it doesn't too. 
but It's like 3% of my work, so I'm guessing i'm doing things right. and yeah i need the money, and am fully aware i'm in no position to take only gigs that seems "cool". and besides, I don't buy that approach at all, i think we can learn from just about anything we come by, if we try to make the best of it.
only once i had to turn down an offer which was in a conflict of morals(not interests) for me, but professionally, (and financially) was very interesting. i hope those won't return alot.

*5.Do you feel it's important to have a goal and is it something that motivates you?*
I don't know, i've never had a feeling of "no goal", I know people that live their lives like that, and they're pretty cool about it. i guess it has a much more relaxing attitude to life than setting out on a mission to conquer the world of composition.
what can I say? i'm screwed up. 

*6. Do you feel happy for others, or discouraged, envious or jealous (please be honest) when you see them reaching your goal? Or both.*
depends-i always get discouraged when someone else gets the gig i was after for sure-especially if i put my best to it. but-i got to hear some of the tracks that got accepted and I can appreciate their talent and not being envious, just accept this as a challenge to improve my art.
i get jealous of people with same abilities or less than mine that get more money.
should i feel happy for them? maybe, at least someone is getting by. easier said than done.

*7. Do you feel, at the end of the line, you get what you deserve?*
for sure, If i tried this 10 years earlier and not trying to conquer a jazz scene, I might have been in a much better place. or on a more negative note-yes i got what i deserve, hah. 

*8. Do you believe luck is involved? etc.* 

yes, there is certain approach that helps, but luck is a factor. you have to be good-sorry, really great to succeed, it can't be just "ok" job to get it done. it has to be great to amazing so that someone will be willing to pay you or hire you. but- to be heard and getting a good opportunity get take years of promotions, and to some just 1 lucky day.
that's the way of things, i'm not so sure all the talented people out there in the industry are better than the people that are still trying to break in. breaking in has many factors, but luck is also some of it-maybe not even 30% but it's there.
even when someday you will get to be hans zimmer, do you really think you can control the directors mood in that particular day when he heard your shot of your pitch? maybe the other guy struck a more sensitive nerve for the director? there are just too many factors that just being amazing will do.


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## mverta (Jan 4, 2013)

My goal is to be the greatest composer in the entire universe, or die trying. Vegas odds on the dying first.


_Mike


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks impressions, cool and honest responses.

and thanks KEnK, Waywyn, Stiltzkin and the others.


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## rgames (Jan 4, 2013)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> I don't know about others, but one thing I don't like is when people say things like: "I don't know why you're not already scoring the big films in Hollywood." or "You should be in Hollywood..." or "This piece belongs in a Hollywood picture..." and tons of variations of that sort. And while I love the compliment, at the same time it makes me feel I'm failing somewhere.


Don't worry about it. As I said above, everyone can find people who say similar things to them. Actually making it happen is something entirely different.

If your goal is commercial success then ignore the people who say great things but don't offer any cash to make it happen.

If your goal is artistic success then stick to your convictions and be true to your musical instincts.

If your goal is verbal recognition from someone, well, it appears you've got it. So quit writing music and go do something else.

rgames


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## Lunatique (Jan 5, 2013)

I just spent over an hour typing up my answers, and the damn forum asked me for my user name/password when I hit submit, losing everything I typed. 

I think that's universe trying to tell me I shouldn't have come back to VI Control. :D


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## Jerome Vonhogen (Jan 5, 2013)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> Parents, also influence our way of thinking. There's not one time I see my dad where he doesn't bring up: "What you need is a big film contract", so every time I see him, it's again, in my head, not reaching your expectation dad, sorry.


The fact that you are able to write this down in this forum and be cool about it, probably means your dad's expectations didn't affect you in an unhealthy way, like it did with so many other musicians in history (like Paul Wittgenstein and his brothers and sisters!).

However, it leaves open the more important question:
what would you tell your kids, Guy?

:wink: 

- Jerome


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## MichaelL (Jan 5, 2013)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> Parents, also influence our way of thinking. There's not one time I see my dad where he doesn't bring up: "What you need is a big film contract", so every time I see him, it's again, in my head, not reaching your expectation dad, sorry.
> 
> I should become a buddhist.




So true Guy. My late father was a film-maker, but not the Hollywood kind. He was very successful at making, documentaries, educational films and "industrial" films. Never did I hear him lament not being a theatrical / Hollywood film producer, quite the opposite. He had a great life. He traveled the world and made hundreds of interesting films. He was recognized by his peers. Most of all, he was happy doing what he did. 

Most likely because of his influence, I found the same kind of work fulfilling. I realized early on that I was more interested in composing for documentaries, and that quality of life, as Guy Rowland pointed out so well is what matters to me. 
"*Quality of life-wise, I bet he's happier than most composers in Hollywood who are treated like muck.... but often working Hollywood composers seem to have a terrible time of it. So if it makes you unhappy / wrecks your life... what's the point? That's very important to me in focusing my aim... to deliberate choose something that seems likely to make me unhappy even if I succeed seems odd.*"

But, more to the point, I think that your father is a bit misguided in assuming that composing for feature films is, or should be, the goal of every composer. Be honest, how many films are there that you want to watch once, let alone the number of times it takes in order to compose the score? Not enough to earn a living.

@Peter...please don't belittle your role a teacher. You have shared your knowledge (including recipes) to benefit of many. For that, I thank you my friend. In a world where sanctimonious and pompous posts sometimes prop up bloated egos, you are a breath of fresh air and civility. 

As far as my goals go, they have changed with time. At 56, I've done many of the "ego" things that I wanted to do when I was younger (including a venture into law). I'm getting ready to make a major "quality of life" move to the country where, like Daryl, I plan to "write what I want." 

Frustrations: I wish that I could play the piano half as well as Guy Bacos. Seriously.

_Michael


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 7, 2013)

It's funny, just a few days ago, someone asked me for a 10 sec intro music for a film review video. Going though my music, the only really cinematic pieces I found was from my bank of when I was doing commercials. I definitely don't have a cinematic style, in the traditional sense. Is that good or bad? I guess both. Film makers are more comfortable with styles they can identified with, until one film maker is ready to take a chance with your style, then if it works out, people say, where have you been hiding all this time? This is where luck comes in I guess, but along with a lot of "not giving up".

Some important things were mentioned along this thread. As for me, music is NOT the most important thing in my life, it's bowling, just kidding, but music is a close 2nd. 

This thread has seemed to wind down, so thanks for the participation!


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## midphase (Jan 7, 2013)

My goal this year is actually to finish transitioning out of composition into another creative field (mostly writing/directing). I've been working my ass off for almost 20 years trying to follow the path that seemed the most sensible and logical way to arrive at a good career as a film and television composer. 

In recent years I have reached the conclusion that such a goal might simply not be achievable anymore, and that continuing on that path would not provide adequate fulfillment and satisfaction. 

Good news is that I'm having way more fun coming up with films myself, so as long as I'm fortunate to keep on being creative I'm going to crank cool stuff out (or at least stuff that I think is cool). I don't know what the future has in store, but I've always believed strongly in pursuing one's passions so my goal is to keep on doing that!


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## Farkle (Jan 7, 2013)

Kays, it's interesting that you made that decision, I made a similar decision about 2 years ago.

I was working my butt off to try to "break into" the film, tv, and video game industry. Worked super hard, got some legit credits, but it got very unsatisfying for me. I kept meeting people who wanted me to work for pennies, promising "a great career boost", etc. Uh-huh... :? 

Plus, I ended up working on more and more projects where the music requested was not stuff that I like to write. Like Mike Verta, I'm a big fan of the great film score sound of the Golden and Silver age, and I basically study and write that stuff. Well, that's not very in vogue right now... 

Long and short is, two years ago, I decided that, instead of looking for, and waiting for, great projects to work on, that I (and several others) would just build those damn great projects!  

That's why our team formed Play Eternal, so that we could build the projects we wanted to build, and I can score and SFX them the way I want to. So, Kays, like you, I made the decision to be creative in a way that lets me control the product, AND the music for the product.

Guy, to your original post; no, I'm not at all where I thought I would be in my career; if you had told me 8 years ago that I would be owning a video game studio, and pitching our titles to major publishers, I would have laughed. A lot. 

But, this is the happiest and most creatively fulfilled I've been in a while. I do some occasional contract work, but basically, I am either writing music for our video games and other media products, or I'm doing passion projects where I get to say what the music is, and how it should speak. 

The only thing I miss is writing for TV; I loved hitting those beats on a TV show, and those royalty checks... ooo, they are nice. 

Mike


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## Lunatique (Jan 7, 2013)

midphase @ Mon Jan 07 said:


> My goal this year is actually to finish transitioning out of composition into another creative field (mostly writing/directing). I've been working my ass off for almost 20 years trying to follow the path that seemed the most sensible and logical way to arrive at a good career as a film and television composer.
> 
> In recent years I have reached the conclusion that such a goal might simply not be achievable anymore, and that continuing on that path would not provide adequate fulfillment and satisfaction.
> 
> Good news is that I'm having way more fun coming up with films myself, so as long as I'm fortunate to keep on being creative I'm going to crank cool stuff out (or at least stuff that I think is cool). I don't know what the future has in store, but I've always believed strongly in pursuing one's passions so my goal is to keep on doing that!



(I wasn't going to rewrite what the forum ate up, since it took so long, but reading your post, I felt I had to at least condense what I originally wrote.)

This seems to be a trend (career change), as the market for music continues to become more devalued and saturated at the same time. 

I'm currently focused on writing novels (that's why I haven't been around for so long), as I realized it's one thing I can do that don't need to rely on others to make happen (relatively speaking). Unlike with other entertainment/arts that I've been working in (film/TV, video games, music), you write what makes you tick, and you don't need to keep up with constant upgrades of hardware and software, troubleshooting glitches, begging for gigs or funding, being told what to do by clients or investors, have collaborators/team members bail on you, have to deal with the logistics of big commercial productions as well as personality clashes, etc. 

You also have full control of the creative direction at the root level, because you are the creator and storyteller, instead of someone who's working on other people's creative vision. You don't need to filter your creative vision through lots of layers of translation via visual or audio mediums--it's all very straightforward--just you and your command of the language. 

I had long realized that the heart and soul of my creative vision has always been the storytelling, and my inspirations for all the other creative endeavors I've been spending time on (art, music, film/animation, games) originates in storytelling. Take away the story and there's not much left. (Although I do love some works that don't have narrative qualities). As I enter middle-age, I decided I should just focus on the root/core of my inspiration and passion, and storytelling is it. As much as I love film/TV/games, the logistics of production is something I'm so tired of, because so much is out of your control, and they can sink your entire project while you feel helpless to do anything about it. I was tired of complications--I wanted to simplify my life and focus on storytelling in the most direct way possible.

For the last few years, I've been focusing more and more on writing novels, and I built up so much momentum that I finally realized that's what I want to do from now on. But novelists starve easily just like composers or artists, so it's going to be an uphill battle to not only write great books, but to be able to make a living at it. Out of the tens of thousands of writers you see on the bookshelves in big bookstores, only a small minority of them can make a living from writing (much like how it is with musicians/composers), so I basically have to be not only really good, but also very lucky. Fortunately, I've built up a career as a visual artist and am currently teaching an online workshop--that's how I make ends meet, while I write my books. 

As for music, it was never a full-time job. I've written songs for popstars, composed for film and games, but they were always moonlighting gigs while I worked as a visual artist and creator/writer in comic books, video games, and film/TV. I still love music passionately, but because of how our civilization has evolved and how music is no longer valued, to make music professionally has turned into a source of anguish for a lot of people. It's really the lucky ones that get to do it for a living. I look at very talented guys right here in VI Control--those who are way more accomplished musically than I am, and they can't make a full-time living by composing either. That was a sign for me--that maybe it's okay for me to simply love music without having to make money from it, otherwise I'd end up living in anguish like so many frustrated composers do.

Maybe writing won't turn into a full-time job either, but I do enjoy teaching art and if I have to do that for a living for the rest of my life while I keep writing novels and composing music for my own creative fulfillment, that's not such a bad way to live a life.


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## Farkle (Jan 7, 2013)

Well said, Lunatique! 

I definitely feel the same way, in terms of all the creative things I do and have done (compose music, improvisational comedy, and now game design) all are drawing from that same creative well.

I want to have people experience some cool emotion. It can be narratively generated, visually generated, or musically generated, but I want to create things that make people feel something.

Definitely, I'm a storyteller at heart as well, and my music tends to be pretty narrative. But I also taught seminars on how to build a story in improv, how to use Campbell's Hero of a Thousand Faces to create a story flow, etc. 

So, creativity for me is more than just through music. And, my best friend sent me an article that says that creative people shouldn't necessarily feel like they have to express their creativity through one outlet.

Look at Dan Inosanto; he's a martial artist, a drummer, a poet, and a writer. He never let himself be pigeonholed.

So, I'm definitely feeling, as I approach 40 (yikes!!), that I'd rather be in control of the creative product, and if that means composing a bit less, but making the music more meaningful, I'm very okay with that.

Mike


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 7, 2013)

Interesting. I doubt very much I'll do anything than music, however, in the last year, I've been saying to myself, if I had the choice of doing something else, I would of liked to make movies. It's amazing how many terrible movies are made.


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 8, 2013)

Wow - Lunatique and Mike - I am not alone! Soulmates! A passion for storytelling is it for me, totally, of which music is only one part. I get why some folks are despondent with composing - I'm not (yet), but I can't seem to limit myself to just one outlet. I used to be hung up on that, now I embrace it. I means I won't get to the very top in any one area - with very rare exceptions, folks at that level are obsessed about their one thing - but I'm having a blast really, which is more important I figure.


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## Ganvai (Jan 8, 2013)

Really crazy. Last year I started a project for myself cause I felt like something was missing when I was writing music. So I invented an idea where I can connect my passion for storytelling and music.

I'm really happy that there are some people out there, feeling the same way too.


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## Daniel James (Jan 8, 2013)

My main goal is very spesific, I want to score a Metal Gear Solid game...If I get to that point I could feel I really accomplished something  

I am most certainly not there yet however I feel like I am progressing at a steady rate. I am never happy at where I am right now, that isn't necessarily a negative though, I want to be better tomorrow than I am today...if I'm not, then I am not trying hard enough.

Do I get discouraged? Sometimes. Envious? Sometimes. Jealous? Everyday.

I think having a goal helps drives me towards what it is I want. I have passed on some things in my career which others call a golden opportunity, but if its not taking in the right direction, its someone elses opportunity. 

I truly believe that if you want something you can get it if you stick at it and work hard.

-DJ


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## Ganvai (Jan 8, 2013)

Daniel James @ 8th January 2013 said:


> My main goal is very spesific, I want to score a Metal Gear Solid game...If I get to that point I could feel I really accomplished something



Maybe you should ask Harry Gregson-Williams to do you a favour that he gives you the phonenumber of Kojima. :mrgreen:


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## Daniel James (Jan 8, 2013)

Ganvai @ Tue Jan 08 said:


> Daniel James @ 8th January 2013 said:
> 
> 
> > My main goal is very spesific, I want to score a Metal Gear Solid game...If I get to that point I could feel I really accomplished something
> ...



Haha...I imagine calling Harry and asking for his job wouldn't come across too well. I am aware that he scores those games because he is perfect for the role, which is of course hard to compete with thats why I am trying to improve my overall composition skills while at the same time develop my own 'thing' in the hope that makes me appealing to the Metal Gear team at some point.

Haha fun little story here...I once met Harry at a party, we spoke for a while about stuff when our conversation was cut short by a bellydancer with a snake wrapped around her neck. A few weeks later I met Harry again, I was all like "Hey Harry, how are you, we met not long back at that party, remember me?   " He just replied. "Nope" I was devastated....haha only joking, I was ok, it was actually pretty funny to those around me xD It must have made me look like a nutter when I just started talking to him though :

-DJ


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## Ganvai (Jan 8, 2013)

Is he still doing the soundtracks for the actual Metal Gear projects? I did not know that.

If he still does, I agree, it wouldn't be a good Idea. Also Harry Gregson-Williams did a great job. I love the Metal Gear Solid 2 opening. It's still one of my altime favourite track.


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## Kralc (Jan 8, 2013)

Daniel James @ Tue Jan 08 said:


> My main goal is very spesific, I want to score a Metal Gear Solid game...


That's a damn cool goal. Preorder me the soundtrack.

Is HGW even doing Ground Zeroes?


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## Daniel James (Jan 8, 2013)

I havn't seen his name attached yet. IT would be a shame if they dropped him. He was a perfect fit.

-DJ


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## doctornine (Jan 8, 2013)

Guy Bacos @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> (You don't need to answer all these questions, just your thoughts on the questions that affects you more.)
> 
> I was curious about how others felt about where they are at in their music career. Are you working towards your goal, and if so, what is your goal, specifically? Are you content of where you're at now? Are you frustrated of not going where you would like to go and feel like giving up? If so, why? Are you further ahead than you expected to be? Do you have no goals and take whatever comes your way, which works perfectly well for you? Do you feel it's important to have a goal and is it something that motivates you? Do you feel happy for others, or discouraged, envious or jealous (please be honest) when you see them reaching your goal? Or both. Do you feel, at the end of the line, you get what you deserve? Do you believe luck is involved? etc.



Interesting thread.

Personally, I spent the bulk of the nineties on the record company: release album, promote album, repeat.
That stemmed from my goal of releasing a record, but once you start you do another and so on. I spent all that time vainly trying to get into tv/film scoring with no luck and then fell into library music by sheer blind luck in 2001.

From that point it became my goal to do library for a living. I went full time at it about 4 or 5 years ago.

My goal now is simply to stay in business. Its getting harder and harder as the industry is very much in a state of continual evolution, and the market place is just saturated with music and people who are willing to sell their work for peanuts. Thats a whole other thread though.
What does make my day, still, is just happening upon a tv show and hearing my music on it. Still, after all this time, it's just such a blast.

In terms of music, I've been playing an instrument since I was 7 and creating music since I was a teenager. I'm now somewhat older and realise that I learn more about music with every passing day. You never stop learning.

~o)


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## MichaelL (Jan 8, 2013)

Daniel James @ Tue Jan 08 said:


> I have passed on some things in my career which others call a golden opportunity, but if its not taking in the right direction, its someone elses opportunity.



Good choice Daniel. Those "opportunities" often turn out to be distractions that keep us from our main goals.

Cheers,

Michael


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## Alex Cuervo (Jan 8, 2013)

My goal as a composer is to be part of a team that makes something great. First and foremost. If I could score a film like Moon, It would be a dream fulfilled. I'm obsessed with genre films, especially arthouse leaning ones.

When I was a teenager and started playing in bands, my only aspirations were to play on an LP and to someday tour Europe. With 8 LPs, over a dozen singles and 2 European tours under my belt - I'm happy with that outcome, so now I'm onto the new dream.

I've never deluded myself into seeking fame and fortune - I do this because, in the words of John Lee Hooker, "It's in him, and it's got to come out". I want to participate in something bigger than anything I can accomplish alone. It's not about me having my music heard so much as it's about developing a skill that will allow me to participate in larger artistic endeavors.

I get by just fine doing freelance design and print production. I do some music for an advertising agency and I have music placed in some cool boutique music libraries - so I'll just keep getting by with all that while I work on honing the craft of scoring to picture.


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## JohnG (Jan 8, 2013)

Guy Bacos @ 7th January 2013 said:


> ....Going though my music, the only really cinematic pieces I found was from my bank of when I was doing commercials. I definitely don't have a cinematic style, in the traditional sense. Is that good or bad? I guess both....



Showing personality and individuality has increased in importance, especially as the whole sound of "film music" seems less and less in vogue. Material that would have suited a blockbuster in the 1980s or 90s now sounds almost ridiculous (I generalise -- there are some works from those times that hold up well, of course).

But I think I perceive that, while many of the largest budget films seem, ironically but predictably, follow the most conservative route (i.e. "film music" sound is still very much there), to get hired on a really excellent independent film, one has to compose something idiosyncratic and unusual-sounding. I think this is because filmmakers are aware that cutting through the clutter besieging potential audiences requires a genuinely innovative approach. I am thinking "Silver Linings Playbook," as an example (even though I realise that Danny Elfman scored it).

I know it can be cool in the right hands, but I am disappointed that so much electronica prevails in film music these days. This is going backward into the "cool sounds" school which, for me, is far less interesting than an orchestra. I realise that lamenting a trend is like lamenting the weather -- futile -- but still.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 8, 2013)

I think I have 2 goals, and that I'm just about reaching one of them.

First off, I'd like to compose really experimental electronic/electroacoustic music all day, 5 days a week. Anything I want, long and short pieces, mostly for listening on speakers (not live). But since I don't want to have another job while doing this, I'm saving this goal for when I retire. So that goal is way off. :mrgreen: 

The other goal is my life right now, with just a bit more security long-term. I am fortunate enough to have a regular tv series gig and some added documentary work. I get good royalties from years of service in the trenches (!), so I can handle the inevitable down-time. Directors regularly push me to write better music, I get to throw in some examples of current obsessions (timbral, harmonic, melodic, etc) and to write some emotional, intimate cues, which I know will be part of something viewed by many people. 

I feel so lucky sometimes, choosing sounds from such a full pantry of luscious goodies, I get dizzy. But the best thing is the challenge from others, directors, producers and the occasional editors. And the discerning ears of my peers, of course! :wink:


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## midphase (Jan 8, 2013)

Daniel James @ Tue Jan 08 said:


> Haha...I imagine calling Harry and asking for his job wouldn't come across too well.



Maybe you could ghost-write for him!


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## MacQ (Jan 8, 2013)

Great thread. Timely for me especially, as I've been giving this exact thing a lot of thought recently. 

For too long, my career goals were nebulous. "Success" was what I was looking for. Fame? No thanks. Money? Okay, but I didn't really want to buy anything. Mostly I guess I wasn't sure about the direction I was going, just that I was working my ass off to "get there". Worst idea ever, really. I think you have to put a name on your happiness and be extremely specific. What Dan James says about jealousy and envy ... yeah, I totally get that. I used to think that often. For probably 10 years I expected that I would get "discovered" somehow. That magically I would be plucked from obscurity and made a star. Doesn't every talented person feel that way? Probably.

But when the magic never came and I was left to make my own future (as I always was, but couldn't see) ... I finally got a chance to see that my life is already amazing. I make a modest living with music and I get to work from home, in a beautiful Canadian city with universal health care!

I wonder about those guys at the top, and I realize that I don't WANT to have the life of the A-listers. I look at the hours worked, the stress, the lack of any kind of "life". For what? My name in lights and a stack of cash? Nah, the stress isn't worth it. When HZ started posting on here I felt strange. Part of me was the 17-year-old with a gut reaction of "I'm almost there!" ... but then I was overcome with a similar let-down of reality: Hans is just a dude who writes music and gets stressed about it, and procrastinates on web forums because he's not "feeling it" at the moment on a score or something. And we're all Hans, in one way or another.

So then I thought ... what do I ACTUALLY envy about Hans Zimmer and those at the top. And the answer surprised me: working with OTHER talented people. This can be one of the most lonely professions, as we all know. Ultimately, what I realized is that I just want to work with other people, creatively and collaboratively. On films, on music, on whatever. I should have realized all of this earlier, since I absolutely LOVE singing in choirs with other people, but don't care at all about the "final performance". Even a long, late night rehearsal can be so rewarding. Working with talented people and letting their talent and dedication elevate my own.

It's friendship with talented artistic people and semi-personal confessions on forums that make me happy, and are what I'll continue to pursue, even if music is no longer my main thing.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 8, 2013)

^^ double-like ^^

=o


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 8, 2013)

I have not reached my goals and realistically I will not.

My goal has changed over the years as I started as a singer/songwriter but for the last 25 years it has been to wake up every morning and know that my job was exclusively to write (and perform) music. And while I do not nor have ever cared about fame or being rich, my secondary goal was to have enough money that I always knew I could pay my bills to live a moderate lifestyle without feeling undue stress.

In the 90's, it really looked like I was at that point. I was scoring "Zorro", a few low budget films, a TV movie here and there, orchestrated a mini-series, and was regularly preparing scores for another very busy composer and making good money.

But I could not, for whatever reason or combination of reasons, kick it up to the next level. So now I work 5 times as hard for a third of the money, as the score prep for my friend disappeared as he is no longer getting budgets for orchestra,; the TV movies and low budget films largely went away and the writing work I get pays far less than what it used to; I supplement it with writing books, columns, helping others with Logic Pro, and working part time for EW.

BUT.. in the end, I have made my peace with it. Every cent I earn is music related; I still get decent royalties; none of the work I do is digging a ditch or unpleasant (except the EW gig at times); I am well treated by the people I help and I seem to have their respect; and if you visit the Facebook page From Out Of The Night you will see testimonials to the fact that my music for "Zorro"actually made a difference in some people's lives in a more meaningful way than I would ever have imagined; I at times financially I am stressed but I have survived OK dud eto my versatility;I have my family and my health.

So really, although as I say I have not reached my goals and realistically will not, I know that I am blessed and have much to be grateful for.


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## TheUnfinished (Jan 8, 2013)

I thought I'd join in because I'm interested to discover how I'm about to answer these questions!

*1. Are you working towards your goal, and if so, what is your goal, specifically? Are you content of where you're at now?*

I guess my overall goal is to be able to make a living from working in music. That's the clincher. Getting up every morning and firing up the studio is an amazing feeling, that I am able to do so as my living is wonderful - I hope it lasts.

I have only been full-time for three months. So it's all still very much heady stuff for me!

I have small goals, of course. Not the "end game" but targets to be ticked off. I'd really love to score a full feature film at some point (not bothered by Hollywood, an independent or European feature would be cool). I'd also quite like the challenge of writing a television series soundtrack at some point too.

*2. Are you frustrated of not going where you would like to go and feel like giving up? If so, why?*

Nope. I'm still taking my baby steps!

*3. Are you further ahead than you expected to be?*

Definitely. I only really got interested in the idea of doing music properly about two years ago and, as I say above, only went full-time 3 months ago. I've already had some cool projects to work on and some very cool people to work with. And I have some interesting stuff lined up already for this year that I'm really excited about.

*4. Do you have no goals and take whatever comes your way, which works perfectly well for you?*

I'm comfortable doing a number of different things. Writing music, designing samples, producing other people's work, collaborating. And most importantly for my 'career trajectory' I started designing synth sounds. This time last year I was just another preset tweaker, then a friend who did synth sound design suggested I give it a go. Now I've released seven synth soundsets, have designed bespoke sounds for game and film soundtracks, and have plans to do many more this year. I really enjoy it and had no idea how much I would when I started.

So, I think the idea of not trying stuff out because it's not necessarily what you thought you wanted to do can sometimes be a wasted opportunity. If I'd had that attitude, I wouldn't be such a fan of eating sushi!

*5.Do you feel it's important to have a goal and is it something that motivates you?* 

I like short-term goals. I think they're useful. You need a constant sense of achievement to spur you on. A long-game strategy would be very frustrating to me.

*6. Do you feel happy for others, or discouraged, envious or jealous (please be honest) when you see them reaching your goal? Or both.*

Always jealous of others achievements. And if we're really honest, we're most jealous of those closest to us. I'm not that jealous of composers I don't know. But when those I do know well get good gigs, of course I'm jealous! 

That doesn't mean I'm not also extremely pleased for them. A friendship means more than this or that gig. And the most important aspect of being jealous of others' achievements is that it spurs you on. It makes me think that if they can do it, I can do it. And that's reassuring.

*7. Do you feel, at the end of the line, you get what you deserve?*

No. That would imply some kind of world where things are fair. I'm not aware of such a place. But, write what you believe in and be a good person - if the good stuff comes to you, hooray, if it doesn't, you've lived a good life.

*8. Do you believe luck is involved? *

Of course. But I don't believe in good or bad luck, there's just luck. And if you prepare properly you can take advantage of it.

And those are my answers. make of them what you will!


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 8, 2013)

I really appreciate the honesty of everyone's comments. Having done a fair amount of business planning, I'm offering these insights which I hope will be helpful to all.

The language of planning can be ambiguous. 

Generally, the first place to start is creating a mission or purpose statement for yourself out of which you create goals.

I'll pick on Guy Rowland to demonstrate. OK, Guy talked about his goal being to help the story in the best way. That's great BTW! But that's not a goal.

What Guy wrote is his mission - My mission as a composer et al is to help tell the story better (or however Guy phrased it exactly).

Underneath this you create the goals and you can do that by asking yourself and answering a series of questions. For example:

This year, what are 1-3 areas in my musical compositional craft I can learn/improve upon to help tell the story better?

This year, what are 1-3 things in my technology kit (Zephyr, LASS, etc) that I could develop to help tell the story better?

So basically you're filling in an outline::

Mission/Purpose
A. What are...
B. What are...
C. What are...

If any posting here have questions that I can help with, PM me.

And thanks again for the honest sharing.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 8, 2013)

Almost a book in the making with all these great stories. 

It's interesting that the more this thread goes the more people don't mind admitting they do feel envious and jealous of others in work related situations. 

Money and fame is great, if you have it, but it's better not to go after it if adds stress and pressure to your life, and enjoy the smaller things in life, which is really what the definition of a successful musician should be. It's a tough balance to reach, but worth trying, I think. In fact, as much as I love creating music with the compliments and all, I get a bigger kick playing tennis, the feeling I get playing has encouraged me to play not less than once a week now, also getting these endorphins don't hurt. So when I'm on the court and make a winner (by my definition), I like to pretend I'm Roger Federer and that was match point. That is joy! No pressure, no ego, no envying others, just having fun! Even if I'd win an Oscar for best score, knowing me, I'd probably be stressed because some other composer might win a 2nd one. So why look for something you may never find when it's always been right in front of us?


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## Arbee (Jan 9, 2013)

Guy Bacos @ Wed Jan 09 said:


> ....I get a bigger kick playing tennis, the feeling I get playing has encouraged me to play not less than once a week now, also getting these endorphins don't hurt. So when I'm on the court and make a winner (by my definition), I like to pretend I'm Roger Federer and that was match point. That is joy! No pressure, no ego, no envying others, just having fun! Even if I'd win an Oscar for best score, knowing me, I'd probably be stressed because some other composer might win a 2nd one. So why look for something you may never find when it's always been right in front of us?


The great thing about tennis, or golf or any individual competitive sport is that you can quantify how good you are by who you can beat and your ranking. Composing, on the other hand :roll: :wink: 

One thing I often said before I departed music 18 years ago in a shrinking industry (yes, it's been shrinking for a while!) was that if we were as good at anything else as we were at music, we'd likely enjoy much less stress from the income roller coaster and other associated insecurities. I went on to prove how true that was in business software development and later senior management. And I do consider software to be a intellectually creative pursuit not dissimilar to composing in many ways.

But.....here I am again busting to re-learn my earlier craft and passion that gave my life some euphoric moments that nothing else can ever surpass.

So, I guess I have now successfully completed my goal of 18 years ago, now back to unfinished business o=<

Btw - in the interim I also majored in strategic management, so don't get me started on strategy v mission v goals v tactics etc ~o) 

.


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## HDJK (Jan 15, 2013)

My biggest dream used to be to become the greatest pianist that I can possilby be. I wanted to be able to play everything that's in my head. But aside from that, I had no real plan, never cared for money or fame. So where did that lead me? Nowhere!

I have a daytime job that supports myself and my family and for quite a while making music was more frustration than fun, because I didn't go anywhere. 2 main problems:

- not enough time
- no clear plan (the unaimed arrow never misses, it doesn't set you up for failure but not for success either)

The biggest turnaround in that regards was a business coaching I took in order to change my daytime job situation. I ended up not changing my job, but creating a plan for my music, as it turned out, that was and still is the thing I am most passionate about!

So I'm at stage one now, but I took the first step in a direction of my choosing. The result of that (if anyone cares) is my new site http://www.3dsoundcloud.com.

It will be a long way before I even reach step 2, but being on the way feels so much better than dreaming about something without a practical plan to achieve it.

Just my 2 cents :D


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 15, 2013)

Just make sure you have a copyright notice up there so people understand that free isn't public domain!


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## Ciaran Birch (Jan 15, 2013)

> The things which make me happy is when I was able to feed my family at the end of the months. THIS is what makes my life worth more. Being able to feed and support someone with my creativity. What really touched me, if I receive emails of people telling me that if they heard track x or y they instantly started crying, got goosebumps, felt influenced and because of this started something in their life or simply burned tracks on CD in order to listen to it every morning when they drive to work.



Definitely agree with this Alex. Being able to earn a living off *a)* doing something you enjoy. (I did accounting in university, and decided last year to pack it in to pursue composing), and *b)* a job that is always changing and adding new creative challenges.

That is a goal and a half right there.  And I would be very happy with that.


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