# Live 10 - What are your impressions so far?



## jcrosby (Feb 9, 2018)

Curious what people think of Live 10 now that it's out in the wild...


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## krops (Feb 9, 2018)

If you're already a hardcore seasoned Live user, it's a great upgrade. If you're used to other, more linear DAWs, some of the new features will seem rather half-baked. The multiple clip editing feature, for instance, lets you select up to 7 clips, but you can still only edit one at a time. In essence, it's more of a visual reference tool. The new way of handling automation has infuriated many users, because you can no longer collapse and expand individual automation tracks - you can only remove them (which doesn't delete the automation itself, but removes the track you add by clicking the + symbol). Instead, the hotkey A toggles the automation view, which reveals or hides all automation on all tracks. Additionally, S hotkey collapses all tracks to their smallest size, but amazingly is NOT a toggle, so if you want to return to the previous state, you need to alt+click one track's arrow, like before.

All this being said, like the update, and pre-ordered a while ago. I was surprised by how much I like the new devices (Wavetable, Pedal and Drum Bus) and the little tweaks to EQ8 and Utility are nice. The Capture feature, which let's you grab notes you've played without recording, is great. Collections is a nice way to add shortcuts to browser items you use a lot.

I can understand why many users would decide to stay on version 9 (or jump ship, if they're tired of waiting for particular features), but I'm very happy with 10.


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## Puzzlefactory (Feb 9, 2018)

Bit expensive for an upgrade. Would have paid £100 but not 2. At least not right now. 

I’m personally more interested in the Reason 10 upgrade.


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## Matt Riley (Feb 9, 2018)

krops said:


> If you're already a hardcore seasoned Live user, it's a great upgrade. If you're used to other, more linear DAWs, some of the new features will seem rather half-baked. The multiple clip editing feature, for instance, lets you select up to 7 clips, but you can still only edit one at a time. In essence, it's more of a visual reference tool. The new way of handling automation has infuriated many users, because you can no longer collapse and expand individual automation tracks - you can only remove them (which doesn't delete the automation itself, but removes the track you add by clicking the + symbol). Instead, the hotkey A toggles the automation view, which reveals or hides all automation on all tracks. Additionally, S hotkey collapses all tracks to their smallest size, but amazingly is NOT a toggle, so if you want to return to the previous state, you need to alt+click one track's arrow, like before.
> 
> All this being said, like the update, and pre-ordered a while ago. I was surprised by how much I like the new devices (Wavetable, Pedal and Drum Bus) and the little tweaks to EQ8 and Utility are nice. The Capture feature, which let's you grab notes you've played without recording, is great. Collections is a nice way to add shortcuts to browser items you use a lot.
> 
> I can understand why many users would decide to stay on version 9 (or jump ship, if they're tired of waiting for particular features), but I'm very happy with 10.


Thanks for this thoughtful review. Do you use other DAWs or is Live the main one? For me, I had to switch to another DAW and use Live for performance and sound design only. I'm still on Live 9. I guess I don't find the new features tempting enough to upgrade.


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## krops (Feb 9, 2018)

Matt Riley said:


> Thanks for this thoughtful review. Do you use other DAWs or is Live the main one? For me, I had to switch to another DAW and use Live for performance and sound design only. I'm still on Live 9. I guess I don't find the new features tempting enough to upgrade.


Stick with Live 9 for performance, and use the other DAW for arranging, no doubt. There's no way Ableton are winning back anyone who found its arrangement features too limiting with this update.

FWIW, Live is my only DAW; I switched from Reason many years ago, because Reason didn't have audio tracks at the time. While I acknowledge the shortcomings of Live, I have no major beefs with the "Live way" - it's kind of in my blood, and there's no way I have the time or the will to learn a new DAW at this point.


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## Daniel James (Feb 9, 2018)

Really wanted it to be amazing. Its a bit of a let down and too expensive of an upgrade for me.

The edit multiple midi 'feature' which should be standard in all DAWS by now isn't fully functional. You can SEE multiple midi clips at once but you CANT edit them all at once. So if you wanted to select a whole section and transpose it as one block of midi, go fuck yourself. You still have to do it all individually.

The graphics update makes it harder to decern what is going on in the arrangement window. It used to be the midi clip would have a colour at the top and the midi information in a clear block that matched the background. Now with the big block colours its like a fucking rainbow at times and just feels messy.

The FX units are great and all but I already have those kinds of FX in abundance.

As with any upgrade there are bugs here and there.

Still no extra composer focused feature like the ability to enter specific tempo information, surround sound, decent video features.

I'm glad I jumped ship a couple years back, Ableton just doesnt seem focused on working composers, more towards the kind of person who would own a lauchpad.

-DJ


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## elpedro (Feb 9, 2018)

too expensive for me to even consider, looks more like an update to me, rather than a new version.not enough there for me to spend AUD 419.Would have jumped in at half the price, maybe....


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## jcrosby (Feb 11, 2018)

krops said:


> If you're already a hardcore seasoned Live user, it's a great upgrade. If you're used to other, more linear DAWs, some of the new features will seem rather half-baked. The multiple clip editing feature, for instance, lets you select up to 7 clips, but you can still only edit one at a time. In essence, it's more of a visual reference tool. The new way of handling automation has infuriated many users, because you can no longer collapse and expand individual automation tracks - you can only remove them (which doesn't delete the automation itself, but removes the track you add by clicking the + symbol). Instead, the hotkey A toggles the automation view, which reveals or hides all automation on all tracks. Additionally, S hotkey collapses all tracks to their smallest size, but amazingly is NOT a toggle, so if you want to return to the previous state, you need to alt+click one track's arrow, like before.
> 
> All this being said, like the update, and pre-ordered a while ago. I was surprised by how much I like the new devices (Wavetable, Pedal and Drum Bus) and the little tweaks to EQ8 and Utility are nice. The Capture feature, which let's you grab notes you've played without recording, is great. Collections is a nice way to add shortcuts to browser items you use a lot.
> 
> I can understand why many users would decide to stay on version 9 (or jump ship, if they're tired of waiting for particular features), but I'm very happy with 10.



Logic's my main DAW for heavy duty work, but use Live for non-orchestral production music or sound-designy trailer type stuff... Also like Live for sketching, really haven't found another program that lets me sketch as quickly... Totally agree with DJ though, with groups in groups they could have expanded it to be more useful for media composition but they didn't add anything else that bridged the gap...

I'm in the camp of users infuriated by automation changes. I tested 10 and it was easily the most commented on aspect of the upgrade. Even testers who liked the new automation didn't see any logic to removing the disclosure triangles. Why they changed something that was done well in the first place, (at least for Live), I don't know... The whole removing a lane to hide it is just a weird choice.


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## karelpsota (Feb 11, 2018)

Been using Live for 10 years now.

I pre-ordered... got access to the Beta... cancelled my pre-order.

Nothing in this update will speed up my workflow.
It seems to slow me down actually.

Automation requires extra steps now (hitting A).
EQ8 has widen its spectrum within the same UI space - making it less precise in the mid-range.
The font is so thin and tiny, that I had to raise the %. Hence making my overview smaller.
CPU hit is equally as bad as 9 (perhaps worse).

Multi-clip, as others have mentioned, is half assed.
The color selector makes no damn sense. (Just do rainbow horizontally and shades vertically, c'mon)
Generally UI lacks contrast. It looks like "ungraded RAW video footage". They got rid of black bars that were kind of nice.
On the upside:

Group withing groups - nothing new if you know how to bus.
Retrospective record - ok that's actually nice.
It closes "faster". Instead of waiting 2 minutes to close 100 track, I now "only" wait 30 sec.
At this point, I seriously believe that Live needs to be re-built from the ground up.


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## AdamAlake (Feb 11, 2018)

Love it. As someone who records everything in live, I was not really looking for any midi editing upgrades, but the multi clip window is great for diagnosing inner voice leading issues. Unlimited grouping is great for managing orchestral sections and the entire group can be saved into the user library, which allows me to have a modular template, where I just drag and drop entire pregrouped sections into projects as needed.

The new instrument is top notch, as well as the effects, especially Drum Buss which can almost turn turds into gold, and Echo which is now my goto delay.

Separating automation into its own fast switch view is a big step up, as it adds a lot of clarity and intuitivity into automation management. The new automation node handling system is also an improvement for me, some hate it, but I find it much more straightforward and quick to use.

Lastly, the retroactive record function is super useful, I spend a lot of time refining ideas by playing on the MIDI controller, being able to instantly drop in the finished idea without having to record it again saves a lot of time.

Overall, a top notch upgrade, worth every penny.


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## zadillo (Feb 12, 2018)

karelpsota said:


> At this point, I seriously believe that Live needs to be re-built from the ground up.



Isn't that essentially what BitWig is (I feel like I read it was from a bunch of former Ableton people who wanted to basically do just that, rebuild what Ableton was from the ground up)


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Feb 12, 2018)

zadillo said:


> Isn't that essentially what BitWig is (I feel like I read it was from a bunch of former Ableton people who wanted to basically do just that, rebuild what Ableton was from the ground up)



... in Java. Blergh.


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## n9n9n9 (Feb 12, 2018)

Been using Live since 1.5, as my daily driver DAW since v3. A long ass time.

I can't replace Live as my DAW because of its modular mixer. Almost anything can route to anything, multiple tracks of MIDI or audio into a single track, a single track into other tracks, the Looper's feedback has an insert. It is just very, very rational in how the mixer is set up, especially for live (or improv) sessions.

It's MIDI automation and control abilities are truly remarkable and very well implemented. Especially if you have a Push.

v10 lets me have Groups with Groups in them. For me this is huge. I can now collapse my 100+ track template into eight tracks. 100 tracks you say? More than 100, yes. In Ableton I have built a setup where I have eight tracks of intruments with live monitoring controls, with three MIDI tracks for recording patterns for each instrument track (which can route into each other for sound on sound MIDI looping) with MIDI effects for probability, velocity control and pitch offsets. I have also built a 8-track looping machine that has modular patching and can be used to create a feedback network. And so on. Groups of groups enable me to hide all that complexity. Hiding things like that means that I can turn my display off and do everything from loading instruments, plugins and presets on the fly to recoding complex arrangements all with the Push and a single fader box. It is flexible and articulate in a way that feels like a miracle to me. I've tried to build something better with Reaper, with Bitwig, with Logic and with Cubase and they all end up with my not being able to do the most important bits at all and most of the other bits only with lots of manual slog and clicking on a screen. I suppose my situation is somewhat unique... but it is worth noting that my way of working *grew* over the last 15 years working with this tool... and it was the tool that allowed this.

v10 Session view is improved... there are some good things that you can do that you couldn't before. The new wavetable instrument is ok, but... it doesn't feature a random per note modulation source (as all instruments should) and so it always sounds a bit sterile and in tune. Echo is ok and the new drum bus and pedal effects are top notch. If I bought suite now it is possible that I would have done without Soundtoys and Fabfilter and a number of other plugins and would have saved probably $5000. The suite deal is a good deal. Thinking back to when I had to buy Max/MSP to get max4live and also had to buy a load of effects to have proper sounding tracks... 

If you love Live and you want a flexible, modular tool to build workflows (as opposed to Media Composer Templates) I think that it is the only game in town. If you are a Media Composer it is my guess that you can't use a lot of what makes Live wonderful because you have to stay in Session and think about things differently.

Would I love it if I was only working in Session mode? I don't think so. Would I love it without a Push? Nope. Would I love it if I hadn't built a crazy performance machine in it and found it to be incredibly stable and customizable? Probably not.

But suffice it to say that with Live I can do things that you simply can't do anywhere else AND I can do them quickly and fluidly and with my eyes closed which for me is essential to creativity.

If Live didn't exist my guess is I would be all hardware, mixers and modulars. Which would be a different life, but in this life I can load a program on my computer, then open a patch and have hundreds of hours of development and refinement right there ready to record my ideas... and I can use Spitfire Libraries to boot. I love it -- the best instrument I've ever had.

I want MPE pretty badly though. I thought that we would have it in v10. That it isn't there and it is in Logic is an indicator that there are growing pains in the codebase, I think... so the arguments that something is fundamentally busted may be true. My wild ass guess is that there is a full internal rewrite in progress and that it is taking a lot longer than expected... as these things nearly always do. Perhaps there will be a 10.5 that is like 9.5 was: free and full of amazing features that prompt those holding back to happily upgrade. In the meantime I have nested groups which has already lead to two gigantic positive changes for my way of working...


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## InLight-Tone (Feb 13, 2018)

^^^ AMEN!


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## paulmatthew (Feb 13, 2018)

I'm in a love hate relationship with Live . Things I like in 10 so far: It launches immensely faster than 9 . Able to select and edit and see multiple midi clips stacked on each other. It now plays all sounds when you press play instead of missing ends of pads or drone sounds where the notes start from the play point . The fades are now easier to work with . The drum bus is nice too. My favorite thing is probably the new utility which monos any track and can set mono freq for bass !!!

Wavetable , meh , I'll stick to Serum and other vsts for that . Don't understand why they changed the automation lane workflow , I preferred the Live 9 way of doing things. Haven't tried Max devices yet so it sure about that . 

All in all it's a decent upgrade but not worth the money spent to get it. A lot of the new features are standard in most other DAWs but there's just something about Live that keeps me using it . This update per cost is going to be hit or miss depending on the user.


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## kitekrazy (Feb 13, 2018)

$299 for me to upgrade = I'll stick with Live 9 Suite for awhile. Over the holidays I bought the Reason 10 upgrade, Samplitude Pro Suite, Cubase Elements upgrade for about the same price. I could have gotten the Cubase crossgrade and some change left over to buy another elicenser. I like Live alot but at $299 I'll wait for a sale. Ableton is not generous at discounts. Even Propeller Head finally budged on their $129 upgrade and I bought that for $80.

I think they should ditch the Suite and make everything as add ons. The Suite library has nothing new. 

$199 would be the most I'd give for it. For dance genres I will spend more time in FL Studio and v20 doesn't cost a thing. I leave the orange on the shelf for now and take the apple.


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## kitekrazy (Feb 13, 2018)

Daniel James said:


> Really wanted it to be amazing. Its a bit of a let down and too expensive of an upgrade for me.
> 
> The edit multiple midi 'feature' which should be standard in all DAWS by now isn't fully functional. You can SEE multiple midi clips at once but you CANT edit them all at once. So if you wanted to select a whole section and transpose it as one block of midi, go fuck yourself. You still have to do it all individually.
> 
> ...



I love the honesty in this. I loved what you did with it but I always found the screen real estate small for me without always having to magnify. Usually when a software company starts putting out its own hardware most of the updates become hardware related. 

I read where one user decide to upgrade to 10 and not the Suite 9- Suite 10 upgrade. All of the synths in it are easily replaceable. No need for Sampler when you have Kontakt.


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## Daniel James (Feb 13, 2018)

n9n9n9 said:


> Been using Live since 1.5, as my daily driver DAW since v3. A long ass time.
> 
> I can't replace Live as my DAW because of its modular mixer. Almost anything can route to anything, multiple tracks of MIDI or audio into a single track, a single track into other tracks, the Looper's feedback has an insert. It is just very, very rational in how the mixer is set up, especially for live (or improv) sessions.
> 
> ...



Group within groups was the only real thing that appealed to me. Not worth the $200+ upgrade for that though. I still have live 9 so I have access to all the other Live features you mentioned, this is to me is the first upgrade in a while I'm going to skip.

-DJ


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## ironbut (Feb 13, 2018)

I do use Live 9 as a sketchpad sort of thing but I'm not that crazy about it. 
The upgrade price is too rich for what I use it for. 
I've heard that Wavetable is cool but I'd rather spend the money on Serum.
I'll keep an eye on this thread though.


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## MillsMixx (Feb 13, 2018)

So far I'm really liking it. I think this video does a really good job at describing all new features. 



There are a lot of subtle little features and workflow improvements that I wasn't aware of that seem to make a big difference for me. Chase midi is great! "Capture midi" of everything you just played even thou you didn't have the record button turned on is stellar! The browser improvements are so much better as you can rename stuff now! Even thou I don't really need another synth I think WaveTable is a pretty cool addition. 

The only real disappointment for me is the lack of multiple midi clip editing. What's the point of seeing the clips all together but not being able to edit them all at once? I think ableton really missed the boat on that one and hopefully it'll be addressed in a future update rather than have to wait for Version 11.


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## NathanRightnour (Feb 13, 2018)

I know this won't be the case for everybody, but the upgrade was a no-brainer for me. I opened the Beta and never went back. My wish list is still quite long, which I will be sending to them soon, but this update checked off more things than I expected.

I personally much prefer the way automation works in 10. This is on top of the fact that Ableton has the fastest automation workflow out of any DAW I've ever seen. Automation in v9 just feels limiting now.

The only thing I didn't appreciate was the performance hit and the new way track heights are handled (it's harder to make all tracks the same height). But I realize that I'm slightly OCD about track heights, and I never max out my system in Live anyway.

For electronic and sample-based music, Live steps ahead of the pack once again.


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## AlexRuger (Feb 13, 2018)

Honestly, it is rocking. My. World. If for only one thing, and that is holding down command/control and zooming in with the scroll wheel. That is an _essential _feature to me when working in Cubase and Pro Tools, and getting around Ableton before always felt like I didn't have thumbs or something, so this one little thing has probably increased my enjoyment of the DAW by about 50%.


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## AdamAlake (Feb 13, 2018)

One more thing, the UI is now fully in 60 fps, which is a pretty nice addition. And a better color palette, even though it is questionably organised.


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## vicontrolu (Feb 13, 2018)

Using it for sound design here and very happy with the upgrade. Totally worth it imo
.


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## jcrosby (Feb 17, 2018)

n9n9n9 said:


> If I bought suite now it is possible that I would have done without Soundtoys and Fabfilter and a number of other plugins and would have saved probably $5000.



Live is missing some important basics. (Especially at its price point...) I can't name another DAW with an $800 price tag that's missing a level meter... (Something they could have hammered together in a weekend...)

Max For Live definitely gives Live some flexibility in the effects/instruments/midi department, but no other DAW makes you build your own effects from the ground up if your missing basics standard everywhere else...

And not to be difficult but nothing in Live can replace FabFilter, UAD or Soundtoys. Maybe for the casual user, but anyone genuinely after what these developers offer, you can look all you want, you won't find it in Live's plugins....

Live's EQ is minimum phase only. You're also limited to 8 bands vs 24, and Pro-Q2 has 'Spectrum Grab', an external sidechain for seeing overlaps, EQ matching, bell shapes EQ8 can't achieve, oversampling...

Drum bus is ok for a DAW plugin, but it isn't UA's VoxBox or API channel, and will never give you the shimmer, oomph and filth the Massive Passive, ATR-102, or Culture Vulture will... Useful for some basic tasks, but no more of a replacement for them than Wavetable is for Serum.

And I have to be a dog with a bone with Live's compressor. Its lookahead isn't lookahead, and anyone who uses it thinking it is is compromising their mix.... Lookahead should just add a buffer and use the buffer to see incoming peaks and reduce artifacts (like clicking or distortion). All compressor's lookahead does is shift the compression backward in time, leaving artifacts in place but out of sync...

Even if users think they might not care about this, with sidechaninig this has a negative impact on your mix. It means Compressor's creating artifacts (in the form of clicks) that are 1 or 10 ms out of sync with your music.
This means with 10 ms of lookahead on, you have a rhythm track of clicks 10 ms out of sync with your music... You can hear it in a sparse mix, and even if you don't notice it in a mix you'll hear it when you hit mastering... (In the form of distortion and phase interference with anything being sidechained.) That's kind of a big deal for an $800 DAW...

In contrast pro-C2 (and Pro-MB) make sidechaining clicks disappear... The compression also stays locked to your music, and doesn't create distortion or suck power out of your music from phase interference.

Live's effects may technically get the job done for some, but AFAIC they aren't close to being replacements for any of them. The compressor issue's a big problem for me especially though... That actually does have an impact you can hear, and see on a meter...


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## Alex Niht (Feb 20, 2018)

I'm glad I jumped ship a couple years back, Ableton just doesnt seem focused on working composers, more towards the kind of person who would own a lauchpad.

-DJ[/QUOTE]

Hey Daniel, I am looking for an alternative Daw for film composition and am very interested in Cubase. How long did it take after you jumped ship to Cubase to get to the same workflow level as you had whilst using Ableton?


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## fgimian (Mar 10, 2018)

As a Cubase user (since SL3), I've tried Ableton Live in the past as I always considered switching. With Ableton live 10, they have finally reached a point where I think I will be moving over.

The additional shortcuts and mouse wheel support are great. The automation snapping was something that I was bugged about for ages too and it's now finally here. I really love session view, drum rack and instrument/effect racks, which are some of the big reasons I was interested in Live in the first place.

I won't lie and say that everything is rosy, the multiple MIDI editing is a step backwards from Cubase and I do miss various other aspects from Cubase too (like the way controller editing worked, automation manipulation, and many little things).

However ultimately for me, in the 6 or so days that I've been on my trial of Ableton Live 10 and using it reasonably heavy to learn it, I have had zero crashes and been rather productive. In that same time, with the same plugins and significantly less running time, Cubase has crashed on me 6 times for random and unpredictable reasons.

I'm on macOS High Sierra with the latest of both (Cubase 9.5.20 and Ableton live 10.0.1).

Ableton have already brought back the triangle in automation with the upcoming 10.0.2 update, so it does seem that they're listening.

P.S.: I completely agree that the upgrade price is steep. The equivalent upgrade for Cubase (if you hadn't upgraded for 5 years) is 25% less than the Ableton Live Suite upgrade price.


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## GtrString (Mar 10, 2018)

I think they are pushing the envelope, asking for money for incremental upgrades. One free Presonus Studio One upgrade eats this for lunch. I like whats under the hood, except that everything is soo small. I feelk like Ableton are starting to lag behind now..


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## TheSteven (Mar 10, 2018)

GtrString said:


> I think they are pushing the envelope, asking for money for incremental upgrades. One free Presonus Studio One upgrade eats this for lunch. I like whats under the hood, except that everything is soo small.



Ableton had v9 out for what 5 years? without charging for the various updates.
v9 to v10 is not considered an 'incremental' update by Ableton.
If you considered what Presonus has charged you for during that that same time period to stay current the price for an Ableton v10 update is probably a bargain.


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## gpax (Mar 11, 2018)

I’ve never regarded Live as an either/or decision in terms of using it as my DAW...

I upgraded to Live 10 standard after seeing compelling features already mentioned, including what I personally think is a much better GUI than before. For me, this was not about seeking a new or alternative DAW on par with Logic, per se, or pondering Live for orchestral work; it’s an experimental, if not alter-ego way of exploring beats, and slicing samples, which I find cathartic after I’m done with other things. 

In context, I had not looked at Live in some time, and in fact, taught Live courses about 12 - 13 years ago (version 4 and 5?). I had not really explored 9 since right after it was first released (never upgraded to 9.5). Incidentally, if not ironically, my reaction the first time I ever saw Daniel James was: “why the hell is he using Live for orchestral work?” But it seemed to work for him - at least back then. 

So far I’m enjoying it as a creative outlet. Is that permitted to talk about here, Lol? Is it OK to say I have a piece of hardware for launching Live clips? Is it allowed to say I sometimes dabble in the Maschine environment as well? There is another world which does consume these things, you know, lol. 

I’m experimenting exporting my orchestral comps and then chopping them up to trigger as one shots and pads in Live (along with various orchestral midi instruments and percussion in real time) while also sequencing things via hardware. There’s nothing that radically different with this aspect of Live 10, though subtle things like tagging colors in the browser make it feel more accessible. On screen, I definitely like being able to resize and customize, though agree the fonts seem a bit small. But at least half of Live is best destined for (and unleashed by) tactile, hardware control, IMO.

But I agree about the cost. Yikes. I am relieved i did not pay for the suite, as I have so much already in the way of soft synths and effects processing (and arguably superior); while I find the arrangement side of Live 10 much-improved since I last worked in it, it still seems cumbersome compared to my main DAW, at least in terms of any orchestral MIDI workflow I’m so entrenched in at this point. But I’ve always viewed Live for different kinds of production work and tracks. 

The capture feature is dope.


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## InLight-Tone (Mar 11, 2018)

In my opinion Push 2 is an essential part of the Live experience, Live becomes an instrument you can PLAY. To be able to touch and control most aspects of Live and dive down into racks, devices and sequences quickly, is clunky in most other DAW's Lemur controlled included. Throw in Max, and there is nothing remotely as powerful...


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## gpax (Mar 11, 2018)

InLight-Tone said:


> In my opinion Push 2 is an essential part of the Live experience, Live becomes an instrument you can PLAY. To be able to touch and control most aspects of Live and dive down into racks, devices and sequences quickly, is clunky in most other DAW's Lemur controlled included. Throw in Max, and there is nothing remotely as powerful...


You raise a good point, that Max is a good argument for the Live Suite since it's now included.


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## n9n9n9 (Mar 11, 2018)

ok so here's some more.

live 10's nested groups functionality is a seriously good thing and has changed my entire way of using the DAW. I have now merged my four main templates into one large one to great effect. While at 114 tracks it is getting to the point of being too resource hungry when adding tracks or changing other things it has become so complete that I find myself doing almost none of that. I have my eight track looper bank with tape emulation on the feedback loops. I have my four async loopers, one reproducing the Eno/lanois shimmer, I have my ROLI fake MPE, I have my eight tracks of instruments... but the nested groups allow these all to roll up into just eight top level tracks, with all the complexity folded up behind those. This makes the Push work a lot better, this makes the template much more flexible. For me at least this is a big deal. Before this change navigating across such a complex config on the push just wasn't possible. Now, I shut off the laptop screen and can do everything just using the push.

So that was one thing. The OTHER thing is a change in Max for Live that allows max objects to route audio to and from other tracks. Again, seems like a little incremental change but the ramifications are pretty huge. It is now trivial to make any audio routing, patching or mixing setup that you can imagine. A very simple implementation would be this: a plugin that allows you to patch whatever the state of the audio is *here* in your chain to another track. But you can take this so much further. For my 8 track looper bank I'm implementing things as one mfl object instead of 8 tracks, 8 loopers, 8 inserts, etc. So (and I'm still building) I can start this thing up and select from the list of possible inputs for each of 8 tracks and then select from a list of possible outputs for each as well. Or send them all to one output, or to the master. Having the ability to pull in any input in a session and output to another other track or output all from within a patch is pretty great. They also seem to have changed the way to map automation to the push from maxforlive and I like the result quite a bit... it is easier and clearer now how things work.

Besides these things I have used nothing new about live 10 and think it is a great update. I couldn't go back. Well... I did use one other thing: the pedal audio effect. For what I do it is tremendous. I would have happily paid $80 for it alone. The distortion and saturation that it creates really works for me.


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