# An educational thread to learn about Anime/Jrpg writing style



## Pier-V (Nov 6, 2021)

_The idea behind this thread was inspired by the generosity that @Sarah Mancuso showed us when she publicly shared Adachi on the forum. If you still don't know what this is all about and you're into orchestral vsts, I higly suggest you to visit_ _*this thread*_.

What is this thread about?

- This thread will contain a list of "chapters" where it will be possible to listen to various tracks from the anime/jrpg world, to obtain a partial MIDI transcription of every composition linked in order to better follow the music, and ultimately to discuss one or more significant characteristics of those tracks with a bit of theoretical analysis whenever useful.
At the same time it will function just like any other thread, and anyone who wants to give any kind of feedback or suggestion is higly encouraged to do so.

- Please keep in mind that the files shared below were originally intended as simple sketches for personal use and not as official transcriptions - they have been transcribed by ear and may contain small mistakes or missing details. However, if enough interest emerges around this initiative, maybe I will consider the idea of improving both the quality and the quantity of the files provided.
Note as well that I will often discuss theory concepts from an unusual, maybe even surprising perspective. *I want to clearly state that what you will read here does not intend to substitute what's written in theory books, and that I firmly believe that traditional theory is still one of the most powerful tools to learn composition on a deep level*. At the same time, though, I don't want to be limited by its limits.

Why is now the perfect time to talk about this style of music?

- Tokyo Scoring Strings is approaching its official release date. This vst was conceived in a very specific way, being recorded in Japan with Japanese musicians and engeineers, and it is already generating an ever increasing interest towards the unmistakeable world of anime/jrpg music.
However, while many people on this forum are incredibly passionate about this topic already, others have just started to show curiosity and would hopefully appreciate a dedicated thread.


Who can join this project?

- *Anyone is invited*: It doesn't matter if you are a complete beginner, an amateur or a professional who is passionate about this topic - here everyone will hopefully find something useful or interesting. I will try to keep things simple at the core, while also providing an extra layer where I'll discuss known theory concepts _from a different angle_.
In addition to that, please _*feel free to attach your own transcriptions/analysis*_ if you so desire: at the time of writing I'm alone in this project and therefore limited in its development - even a small help would be really appreciated and, most importantly, it would be beneficial to everyone.
There are no particular restrictions on what is allowed to talk about and how to approach the topic, as long as the title of the thread is respected and all the conditions for *fair use* are fulfilled.

_What counts as fair use?

- The material included on this post and on the following ones is intended for educational and/or informational purpose only. If you want to contribute, as long as the names of the both the work and the author are clearly stated and as long as a work is not uploaded in its entirety, every condition for fair use should be fulfilled.
Please keep in mind that some uses of the material provided outside of personal use for score study may be considered inappropriate and/or require permission from the original authors. I (we) do not take any responsibility for such improper uses._

- - - - - - - - - - - - 

*Given that I want to keep things ordered but I also want any user to feel free to give any kind of reply any time they like, I opted for what I consider the best possible compromise:
The opening post will be treated as an index where I'll link all the major topics and their position inside the thread (post and page number).*

COMPOSITIONS AND TOPICS LIST

0. I've already attached two transcriptions (and a brief analysis) to two mockups I've already posted here on the forum. I won't post them again to avoid redundancy - if you are interested, visit _*this thread*_ instead. 


1. Cyrus the Scholar (Octopath Traveler/Yasunori Nishiki)
Imitative counterpoint in progressions over the circle of fifhts

Post #2, Page 1


(1b? How to build a double canon on those progressions, AND/OR further examples of such progressions in the anime/jrpg repertoire and in what they are different compared to the classical counterpart) 


2. How clever, lyrical voice leading enhances simple chorale writing for strings, from three different anime osts
[Work in progress! - may take a while...]

Post #?, Page ?


3, 4 and more... - Depends on response


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## Pier-V (Nov 6, 2021)

*Composition: Cyrus the Scholar, from the Octopath Traveler OST. Composed by: Yasunori Nishiki
Topic: Imitative counterpoint in chord progressions over the circle of 5ths*

- The transcription (attached below) of this beautiful track is actually a _piano reduction_ - some parts may require four hands. I've also included a cover for accordion made by the youtuber _*Mr.ACCORDION*_, which brilliantly showcases how this composition can be easily rearranged for other instruments without losing its peculiar character.
I'd like to focus mainly on the second half, where you can hear a technique used often in baroque music and loved by many Japanese composers for its ability to mantain a lively counterpoint while also preserving harmonic order: this technique is called *"harmonic progression over the circle of fifths"*.
It is especially useful to preserve the answer/response mechanism so crucial in many jrpg osts and can be either used rather freely, like in this specicific case (*), or elaborated to the extreme using another technique called *"double canon"*. If you are interested in how to add a double canon to this progression I may consider the idea of explaining it in another post, but for now it's beyond the scope of this topic - I'll just give some examples instead.

(*) Other famous examples where this technique is used: many compositions by Joe Hisaishi and, in an even more "anarchic" way, many tracks from the various Pokemon osts (yes, they STILL count as jrpg). Providing more details and examples could be another way to expand this topic in future posts.



_(MIDI files attached at the bottom)_





- - - - - - - -

*Bonus: Beauty and limits of this chord progression*

- _The following examples have been purposefully conceived in the most academic way possible, and they also bring counterpoint exploitations to the extreme - *they aren't and shouldn't be expected to be aesthetically meaningful*. _On the other hand, their voice leading should be correct (listen to them at a much slower tempo if you have trouble following), and they provide an original perspective on this topic which is probably difficult to find elsewhere. They also all feature the use of double canon, and if you liked the progression used in Cyrus the Scholar and you want to understand it, I encourage you to "decipher" the "stricter and uglier" version first like you would do in a puzzle game. If you want to write your own progressions, remember that _*breaking these rules (after they have been understood)*_ _*is actually a good thing!*_

I will now briefly explain their structure:

The first and third example have a descending model, while in the second example the model ascends. The third one is composed of a _"progression of progressions"_, where the imitations rotate between the first three voices while the bass proceeds in contrary motion.

And now the _"original perspective"_ I talked about above: all theese progressions explore the usual modes of the white keys first (**), then they modulate in order to experiment with the modes of the white keys with an E flat (***). Finally, they modulate again and return to their home key, concluding with a short chorale. The second set of modes (***) has a more exotic sound and is harmonized with _two diminished triads and one augmented triad_ in addition to the usual major/minor chords: notice how that DRASTICALLY impacts this kind of chord progression, and notice also how - ironically - theese progressions have a tendency to temporarily suspend any sense of modality.

(**) Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Misolydian, Aeolian, (Locrian)
(***) Melodic minor, Dorian b2, (Lydian #5), Lydian b7, Misolydian b6, (Eolian b5), (Locrian b4)


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## Pier-V (Nov 6, 2021)

*Look, there's a dungeon - oh no, a maze! Where should we go next?*

_- Double canon on circle of 5th progressions... Sounds like fun, let's proceed that way!

- Other examples from the repertoire!? That's amazing - count me in!

- I've always wondered how Japanese composers manage to get that familiar yet so unique strings sound... You know what? I hate secondary quests, let's just focus on the main storyline!

- Actually, hear my suggestion first..._


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## jeremyr (Nov 9, 2021)

I think other examples would be great, especially stuff from the late 80s and early 90s when the JRPG sound was just taking shape. On more than one occasion while listening to the Octopath soundtrack I noticed similarities with early Uematsu and Sugiyama works. It's interesting to see what aspects of RPG music have changed over the last 35 years and what's stayed pretty much the same.

There's a really neat youtube channel that compiles 100 examples in the different RPG styles (town themes, battle themes, etc.) that's very educational on this subject:


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## Pier-V (Nov 9, 2021)

@jeremyr Thanks for your feedback! I'm really appreciating the video you posted (I'm 31 minutes in right now) and I'm already learning a lot. By the way, your preference is noted - meanwhile, I suggest you to give a closer look to what's happening at 11:28, just to give a small example


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## jeremyr (Nov 9, 2021)

The progression at 9:11 is also very common: IV V iii vi

In this case it's Bb C7/Bb Am Dm

There's an article on it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IV△7–V7–iii7–vi_progression


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## Pier-V (Nov 9, 2021)

Oh yes, I know that topic very well, and in the future I will DEFINETLY talk about that because... to be honest, I don't like how it is presented at all! Now I won't go in all the details, but just let me ask you a question: how can a progression lack a "I" or "i" chord and sound stable at the same time? Maybe, just maybe... it is still tonal (meaning it has a key center), but actually in the _Lydian_ mode, and reads as _*I II vii iii *_? Or, depending on the case, it is in the _Eolian mode, _where it reads _*VI VII v i *_?

If you expand this concept further to *any* mode, especially the ones which don't use only the white keys (like the (***) I mentioned in the second post), how many new ways to modulate to _close _keys emerge? Cheers!


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## Desertanu (Jun 2, 2022)

This sounds like a cool project. I hadn't heard of a double or single cannon around the circle of fifths. Something I've often wondered is how composers decide on which key or mode to modulate to over another.


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## Pier-V (Jun 11, 2022)

Hi @Desertanu , sorry for the late reply, I just wanted to say I really appreciate you find this thread useful - thanks for passing by!
I've been inactive during the latest months and, to be completely honest, I'm a bit out of shape at the moment. However, I'd like to reassure anyone interested on the fact that this isn't a dead project.

Speaking of double canons on the circle of fifhts: it isn't actually too difficult to do and it can definitely be learned, the important thing to know is that *two of the four voices imitate each other by ornamenting the 7th of the chord, while the remaining pair plays a different ornamentation over the resolution of a suspension* (usually this suspension is choosen in a way that would produce only imperfect consonances on the strong beats). This is true for the descending progression - in the other two models I kind of improvised trying to follow the same overall philosophy and making sure to get a clean voice leading counterpoint wise.

The question about how to modulate keeping both mode and key in mind is a very tricky and interesting one, it cannot be answered shortly without oversimplifying but for now I'll point out two very important elements that should always be kept in mind:

*1)* Key and Mode are completely independent of each other, meaning that you change one, the other or both in any combination producing an enormous variety of effects in the process. Below is an example where I apply this principle on a progression. I choose a progression because the repetition of the model makes the melody predictable, allowing the listener to focus purely on the harmony - this, though, is true in general and extends way beyond that!

The only thing I changed in the following progression is how I choose to alter a note. I did it following this criteria:

(A variant) Changes both mode and key, in a way to go darker tonally but brighter modally;
(B variant) Only changes key - basically a series of transpositions;
(C variant) Only changes mode without modulating - a basic progression like the ones in the previous post.

View attachment Modal experiments on progressions - Independence of Mode and Key.mp3


*2)* In some styles the use of cadences, especially *suspended* and *deceptive* cadences, can create a peculiar ambiguity that would suggest an *authentic* cadence in another mode but without any real modulation happening.
Example: a deceptive cadence in the Ionian (major) mode of the V-IV kind could be perceived as an authentic cadence of the II-I kind in the lydian mode. Since an authentic cadence would suggest a different tonic, this creates an unique scenario where you feel "sort of" a modulation (as far as I know this is sometimes called a modalization) but _without introducing any alteration whatsoever: _

View attachment Lydian deceptive cadence.mp3


It's not much, but I hope this helps to get at least an idea of what I'm talking about. If I find some worthy examples of these two principles in jrpg/anime music I will consider a piano reduction of some brief excerpts, but anyone who listens critically and with an open mind will easily find a ton of examples, since these are techniques used nearly everywhere.


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## jeremyr (Jun 11, 2022)

The circle of 5ths progression in this song is pretty nice (at 0:55). Sounds like something you'd hear from Poulenc:


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## Markrs (Sep 11, 2022)

Apologiese that I have read all this thread, so a couple of relevant videos might have been mentioned. If you haven't it is worth checking out Ryan Leeach's videos as he often references things like Cyrus the Scholar. Not sure if music of people like Joe Hisaishi counts as Anime, but if it is relevant, there are some good videos linked below




Gavin Leeper has also done videos on this:


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUHFOcfiUoYHhMhLNuY_dUg/videos



Alex Heppelmann has done a series of videos on Joe Hisaishi:


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## Pier-V (Sep 11, 2022)

@Markrs Sure, I'd say Hisaishi's music definitely counts as anime music 

I haven't watched Ryan Leach's videos yet, but I've watched nearly the entire Alex Heppelmann's series on Spirited Away and I have to say, it's incredibly well made both from a content and from a production value point of view. Highly recommended!

One video I particularly enjoyed is the one called "Orchestrating Polyphonic Textures like Joe Hisaishi (Spirited Away)", and the reason is that it talks about motivic development, but with a focus on how to merge a multitude of motifs together in the same piece. Personally, I've always felt that motivic development and musical form are deeply connected, and since there's so little talk about form in general in the "academic" side of Youtube, I cannot but praise the effort.

Coincidentally, just a couple of months ago I did a very similiar kind of melodic analisys on Bach's first three part invention, where I assigned different melodic blocks - or variations of those blocks - to different midi channels (1st block/variations: ch. 5/7; 2nd block/variations: ch. 9/11; 3rd block/variations: ch. 13/14/15). This analysis was originally intended for personal use, so there may be some inaccuracies, but I'm attaching it here nonetheless because it might still be useful to provide some additional context.
Oh, and just to be clear: Alex's video doesn't need this bonus attachment at all, his analysis is interesting and extensive already, I simply want to show how deeply rooted this technique is in our musical culture, in the hope that as many people as possible will realize that well written "old" music and well written "new" music are not so different, afterall.


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## Markrs (Sep 11, 2022)

Pier-V said:


> @Markrs Sure, I'd say Hisaishi's music definitely counts as anime music
> 
> I haven't watched Ryan Leach's videos yet, but I've watched nearly the entire Alex Heppelmann's series on Spirited Away and I have to say, it's incredibly well made both from a content and from a production value point of view. Highly recommended!
> 
> ...


That's great, I am a big fan of Alex's videos, though his knowledge is so comprehensive it can be sometimes hard to absorb it all so I often have to watch the videos several times and take notes.

Do give Ryan's videos a watch, especially some of the earlier ones that cover a bit in motivic development and form.


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