# Which classical scores have you studied - with sheet music?



## RiffWraith (Dec 21, 2014)

Just wondering what classical scores with sheet music some others around here have studied. Due to the severe lack of sheet music for film scores (time for a revolt I say!!!), finding the right classical pieces to study is - _I think _- the way to go. And when I say "right" - I mean pieces that are not too far off from film score music. Of course we are talking about two different animals here, but for someone like myself who is trying to better his chops writing and orchestrating film scores, I don't think studying one of Mozart's piano concertos is the way to go. So, I am not looking for classical/romantic/whatever pieces that really could never be film scores; but am looking for something that is not too far off. 

Two things come to mind for me:

1) The Planets - have studied that score a bit in the past
2) The Ring - a HUGE body of work, a ton to plow through, and most of what I heard is not really "film score-ish"

What have the rest of you studied?


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 21, 2014)

Ravel's Daphnis et Chole. The bible.


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## Alastair (Dec 21, 2014)

Gerald Finzi - Eclogue. Modern classical but fantastic string work in that. Reminds me of a lot of Morricone's work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZJDCjSN_Go


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## Stiltzkin (Dec 21, 2014)

The rite of spring

Ravel: Jeux d'eau, gaspard de la nuit (ondine/legibet/scarbo - orchestrated versions), rhapsodie espagnole


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## Farkle (Dec 21, 2014)

First, I agree 1000% with Jay Asher. Ravel's Daphnis And Chloe (the full Ballet, not the suites) are almost required for contemporary scoring.

So, I've studied Daphnis and Chloe. Other scores that I studied for "cinematic" style orchestration and composition:

Stravinsky: Rite of Spring, Firebird (1919 Version ballet)
Samuel Barber: Overture to the School for Scandal, Symphony No. 1
Respighi: Pines of Rome
Tchaikovsky: Sleeping Beauty Ballet Suite, Nutcracker Suite (don't knock it, the orchestral colors in there are sick)
Prokofiev: Romeo And Juliet Ballet Suites No. 1 and 2 (a Gold Mine of stuff).
Mendelssohn: Hebrides Overture, Incidental Music to a Midsummer Night's Dream.

Currently, I'm re-studying Tchaikovsky, Ravel (Daphnis, AGAIN), and I'm checking out Sibelius's tone poems (En Saga, and one other that escapes me).

That oughta get you started! 

Mike


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## patrick76 (Dec 21, 2014)

All great suggestions so far. I would add Gorecki's Symphony No. 3 as it is similar to the Hans Zimmer piece Am I Not Merciful from Gladiator. Also would recommend checking out the book On The Track by Fred Karlin and Rayburn Wright as it has a good amount of music excerpts from films, including some John Williams stuff. Not sure if they have an updated edition... mine is from early 90's I think.


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## joed (Dec 21, 2014)

I would add these to the excellent suggestions everyone else has already made:
Ravel: Mother Goose Suite
Copland: Appalachian Spring
Vaughan Williams: The Lark Ascending
Stravinski: Petrushka


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## Farkle (Dec 21, 2014)

joed @ Sun Dec 21 said:


> I would add these to the excellent suggestions everyone else has already made:
> Ravel: Mother Goose Suite
> Copland: Appalachian Spring
> Vaughan Williams: The Lark Ascending
> Stravinski: Petrushka



Oooo, nice additions; I forgot how important Copland is. Yes, I've studied his Appalachian Spring and Billy the Kid. It's critical for Americana stuff.

Funny enough, I haven't studied Mother Goose Suite, I'll add that to my list. Also, I haven't studied NEARLY enough Vaughn Williams. Thank you for the addtl. scores to check out!

My wife's gonna hate me over the holidays, I'm going to be a hermit! 

Mike


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## wst3 (Dec 21, 2014)

I have several Copland and Barber scores that I return to regularly. While not strictly cinematic, much of my writing is for live theatre, and these guys offer me tons of cool ideas!

If you want to study the Mother Goose Suite may I humbly suggest "How Ravel Orchestrated Mother Goose" - still available at Alexander Publishing. I have a very old copy, and should revisit it.

Another favorite of mine is Dvorak's New World Symphony.

I recently picked up the Alex North cue that Alexander Publishing is selling, I've had very little time to spend on it, but it certainly appears to offer a wealth of ideas for film music.

So much to study, so little time!


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## Farkle (Dec 21, 2014)

Sam Barber is a forgotten gem, IMO, in terms of emotional orchestral scoring. Everyone knows his "Adagio for Strings", and it's amazing, but his score to "Overture to School for Scandal" has some brilliantly dramatic orchestration, and an absolutely stunning secondary theme (straight americana). Check it out.

http://youtu.be/8yF1QT60ibk?t=1m55s

That classic, delicate, solo-wind-over string-accompaniment figure that just pulls at your heart strings. And then, the strings answer it with closed voicings, pizz bass... just perfectly scored for the emotion of that theme.

Mike


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## The Darris (Dec 21, 2014)

Anything from IMSLP.

I've also acquired the score to Aftertones of Infinity by Joseph Schwanter who won the Pulitzer in 1978 for it. It is a very 20th century score with a lot of texture, colors, and complex rhythms. It is a great reference for creating aleotoric music in a very traditional way. I believe the score was retrieved from the UC Berkeley Library but I am guessing at this point.


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## Peter Alexander (Dec 21, 2014)

Mother Goose Suite
Bruckner 6th
Lark Ascending
Carmen Suites 1 & 2
Danse Profane
The Red Pony
Pictures At An Exhibition


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## Peter Alexander (Dec 21, 2014)

Off Topic - but has anyone heard Gabriel Yared's rejected score to Troy? Just heard it last night. Amazing richness and textures.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmp93BlXPOQ&index=1&list=PL22ED34F65EBC1B33 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmp93Bl ... F65EBC1B33)


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## KEnK (Dec 21, 2014)

I read scores all the time for fun
All the suggestions here are spot on.

I'll add Haydn Symphonies to the mix.
He's often overlooked these days,
but he's an absolute master of motivic development.
Entire movements unfold from the tiniest kernels.
Amazing to read.
Also they used a smaller orchestra in his day,
so it's easier to follow than the Big Boys

This is of course not at all similar to film music-
but there are things to learn from developmental writing.
Thematic development- how get a lot from practically nothing

I wouldn't discount the 19th century masters either.
That's where it all comes from.
Although the tonalities are not the same, 
This is where you can study the use of color.
Instrument combining and shifting.

Tons and tons to glean from the 19th century

k


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## daviddossett (Dec 21, 2014)

Right now it's Mahler 2 and anything Debussy for me.

Also John Adam's 'City Noir' is a good ol' time!


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## Living Fossil (Dec 21, 2014)

...there are countless great scores that one should study.

In addition to the already mentioned ones some of my favorites:

- Alban Berg: Wozzeck, Lulu
- Bartok: Music for strings, perc and celesta, Concerto for Orchestra
- Debussy: La mer, L'après midi d'un faune
- Bruckner: all symphonies, Te Deum
- Schubert: symphonies
- Beethoven: symphonies
- Mahler: Das Lied von der Erde
- Wagner: die Meistersinger von Nürnberg, Tristan
- Puccini: Turandot
- Mozart: Ave Verum, symphonies, Requiem
- Schostakowitsch: symphonies
- Gubaidulina: Offertorium, Johannes-Passion
- Ives: The unanswered question
-Lutoslawski: Jeux vénitiens

and for solistic writing:
- Berio: Sequenze (1-14)

...they don't sound as most of today's filmscores. But i'd be lucky if todays scores would sound more as the mentioned ones...


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## bryla (Dec 22, 2014)

I've studied a lot of what has been mentioned already but would like to add:

Bartók: Concerto for Orchestra
Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schostakowitch and Mahler Symphonies
Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique
Tchaikovsky: Nutcracker Suite


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## muk (Dec 22, 2014)

Erich Korngold, Die tote Stadt (or any of his works you can find, really). And Living Fossil's suggestions! Even if you probably won't apply textures par to par for film scores these are invaluable sources for learning and inspiration.


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## SymphonicSamples (Dec 22, 2014)

A wealth of great examples so far . I know Wagner has been mentioned but given what your focus is , (and if you haven't) , spending time just listening to a collection of Wagner's Overtures alone can be a musical life changing journey .


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## chibear (Dec 22, 2014)

There's already about 2-3 years of score study listed above 

To fill it out a bit more, try

Bruckner 8
R Strauss Die Frau Ohne Schatten
Hovhanness Mysterious Mountain
Mahler 9
Stravinsky Symphony of Psalms


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## wst3 (Dec 22, 2014)

Farkle @ Sun Dec 21 said:


> Sam Barber is a forgotten gem


Not where I grew up<G>... he wrote my high school "Alma Mater" in fact, and was always lingering in the background.



Farkle said:


> "Overture to School for Scandal" has some brilliantly dramatic orchestration, and an absolutely stunning secondary theme (straight americana).



Agreed, but I really can't think of anything he wrote, including the Alma Mater, that I didn't like, or learn from.



Farkle said:


> That classic, delicate, solo-wind-over string-accompaniment figure that just pulls at your heart strings. And then, the strings answer it with closed voicings, pizz bass... just perfectly scored for the emotion of that theme.



Funny you mention that - I just used that first device (winds over strings) in a project I'm working on. Didn't even think about from whence I 'borrowed' it<G>!

Take care...


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## kenm (Dec 22, 2014)

High on my list are Shostakovich's symphonies and ballets.


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## JSmit (Dec 22, 2014)

Many of the above mentioned, especially Ravel.

But, would really like to get my hands on Schoenbergs Gurrelieder, that is amazing music.

Talking about Barber, his Summer music for Wind Quintet also could be worth a look.


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## amordechai (Dec 22, 2014)

Mahler and Bruckner, all day, everyday.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 22, 2014)

When you die, if you have been a bad person, you spend eternity listening to Bruckner. Never say in 8 measures what you can say in 80


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## Michael K. Bain (Dec 22, 2014)

I don't remember the first sheet music I studied; that was in Music Theory in my 2nd or 3rd year of college - almost 30 years ago!

However, I do remember my first SATB arrangement assignment: _The Harmonious Blacksmith_ by Handel.

And now that think of it, it's time for a new arrangement of that piece. Wouldn't it sound good with the Balalaika as the melody instrument?


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## RiffWraith (Dec 22, 2014)

Hey guys - thanks so much! 

I am about halfway through the suggestions. I was going to respond to each piece as I listened, but it's way too much. Suffice it to say the solo piano stuff, ballet stuff and Copland is exactly what I am_ not _looking for.

But already I have some good stuff to go and try and find the sheet music for, like *Samuel Barber, Symphony No. 1* and *Respighi: Pines of Rome *.

Thanks again!


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## Marius Masalar (Dec 22, 2014)

One of my favourites to dig into is Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade.

Incidentally, the Toronto Symphony Orchestra recently put out a recording of it that's quickly become one of my favourite renditions.


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## AC986 (Dec 22, 2014)

Pound for pound Stravinsky squeezes arguably the most colour out of any given bar when he was in his heyday. Stravinsky must be a great source of inspiration for anyone who wishes to do filmic scores.

I can't agree that Copland is one not to include. Copland is very filmic although arguably you have to go back to another decade for when it was a really popular sound in films. But Copland's colour is amazing. A really worth while composer to study.

But rather than just checking full scores, it's a worthwhile exercise to reduce scores wherever possible to piano pieces and study the structures in a more simplistic manner.

Bach and Handel on the other hand are not really going get you far in modern day filmic scoring. But there is a lot to say about their dexterity and skill with counterpoint which can obviously be applied and indeed has been applied by all well known modernists in one way or another.


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## JohnG (Dec 22, 2014)

Strauss, Wagner, Bach, Handel, Beethoven, Stravinsky, Debussy, Ravel, Part, Bartok, Penderecki, Adams, Copland, Duruflé, The Beatles songs...

It's a long list and what I study varies depending on what is going on.

If you want a shortcut to learn something about "the repertoire" of western orchestral music, try John Williams' study scores. He knows every trick ever used and invented a lot of them himself.

Also, I sing in a choir every week and we tackle some reasonably challenging material, so that keeps new things coming.


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## Guy Bacos (Dec 22, 2014)

Rachmaninov is one of the best orchestrators and not often talked about in that regard.


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## Felipe Opazo (Dec 22, 2014)

Anything by Richard Strauss, if you don't like opera try his tone poems (Don Juan, Tod ind Verklärung, Till Eulenspieguel, Also Spracht Zarathustra, Don Quixote, Ein Heldeleben) or his Alpine Symphony. Also, Debussy, Mahler, Puccini (Try his latter operas like "La Fanciulla del West" or "Il Trittico" or "Turandot", great orchestration and awesome melodic ideas).


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## Felipe Opazo (Dec 22, 2014)

And of course Wagner! Before the Ring i would take a look at Tristan Und Isolde.


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## synergy543 (Dec 22, 2014)

I just heard through the grapevine that something very exciting is coming UP from from *Norman Ludwin*http://www.musicnewapproach.com/ very soon! Keep yours eyes and ears open for this on the forum.

In the meantime, don't forget the offerings from Omni Music (Edward Scissorhand, Back the Future, Matrix, etc.) 

And there are a few from some old time great composers:
Erich Korngold - Sursum Corda is available on IMLSP and material from this was directly used in several of his film scores (Robin Hood). 

And Miklos Roza study score to the *Jungle Book Suite* (based on the same orchestrations as in the movie). *http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/daily/article.cfm/articleID/4859/CD-Review-The-Jungle-Book/ (Review here.)*


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## Ian Dorsch (Dec 22, 2014)

Great thread. A few that haven't been mentioned (or maybe I just missed them):

Prokofiev - Lt. Kije Suite and Symphony #2

Schreker - Vorspiel Zu Einem Drama


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## eric aron (Dec 23, 2014)

So much grateful to all these composers..
Wagner Tristan
Ravel Daphnis / Spanish Rapsody / Mother Goose/ Pavane
Debussy Prelude à l'après midi d'un faune / La Mer
Liszt/Rachmaninov/Brahms/Prokofiev/Tchaikovsky pianos concertos
Rachmaninov Isle of Dead/ 2nd symphony
Bach Art of Fugue
Prokofiev/Beethoven/Brahms/Tchaikovsky/ violin concertos (Brahms conducted)
Beethoven symphonies (4th conducted)
Dvorak Symphonies/Serenade (conducted)
Bartok Strings Divertimento (conducted)
Prokofiev Scytian Suite
Stravinsky Firebird/Jeu de Cartes/Rite of Spring
Rimsky Korsakov Scheerazade
Tchaikovski Nutcracker, 5-6th symphonies
Gabriel Yared/Camille Claudel


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## eric aron (Dec 23, 2014)

Guy Bacos @ Mon Dec 22 said:


> Rachmaninov is one of the best orchestrators and not often talked about in that regard.



oui bien sûr


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## jaredcowing (Dec 23, 2014)

If you're having trouble finding any of these scores, you can always go to your nearest University library with a music program- they often have lots of older and out of print scores, as well as ones from modern composers not on IMSLP like John Adams, and can interlibrary loan anything they don't have. Some schools like USC and UCLA have manuscripts from film composers themselves.

Without repeating some of the suggestions made before, a couple more:
Prokovief Symphony 5, Mvt 2 & 3 (you'll hear some Horner in mvt 2, some John Williams in mvt 3).
For something more modern but accessible, John Adams's Harmonielehre and Shaker Loops (used in Civ 4 game I think)
For some color/orchestration ideas, George Crumb's Haunted Landscape is good too.

And for simple/lyrical, was Lark Ascending by RVW mentioned yet? That style of writing is a guaranteed win even with people who don't like classical- even though it's a classic nobody will hear it and think 'this sounds old/stuffy.'

Have fun!


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## AC986 (Dec 23, 2014)

If you mention VW you also have to mention his friend when they were young and collecting folk songs out and about the English countryside, George Butterfield.

George Butterfield was a genius and a perfectionist. He tore up a lot of his scores unfortunately. One piece that should be studied from the score and highly recommended is The Banks of Green Willow. Very good orchestration and well worth looking at.


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## jaredcowing (Dec 23, 2014)

For George Butterworth, they recently released a critical edition containing the original and revised versions of Banks of Green Willow: http://suncat.csun.edu/record=b2872290
Most University libraries with a decent music program will have this too.


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## Stephen Rees (Dec 23, 2014)

adriancook @ Tue Dec 23 said:


> George Butterfield was a genius and a perfectionist. He tore up a lot of his scores unfortunately. One piece that should be studied from the score and highly recommended is The Banks of Green Willow. Very good orchestration and well worth looking at.



And here's a lovely recording together with the original version of RVW's London Symphony. Well worth a listen.....

https://www.chandos.net/CD_Notes.asp?CN ... HAN%209902


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## AC986 (Dec 23, 2014)

Duh! 

I always call hm George Butterfield because I have friend called that.

:lol:


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