# Have you done your backups?



## Kevin Fortin (Oct 3, 2021)

Just checking. Wouldn't want anyone to lose time and money to an unexpected drive failure.

(This is really just meant as a PSA.)


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## fakemaxwell (Oct 3, 2021)

Got Backblaze going a few years ago and it's been great (along with regular backups onto HDDs). It's pretty quick with new files so I don't have to have a panic attack if something happens mid project.


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## Kevin Fortin (Oct 3, 2021)

I hope everyone has clones of their library drives, too.


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## Bluemount Score (Oct 3, 2021)

Yes, I did one November 2018


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## I like music (Oct 3, 2021)

You mean create copies of my work that someone else might discover after my death, and therefore embarrass myself posthumously with the crap I write?

No, trust me, it is better that no records are left of my 'music'  

Serious answer - I have my 'template' backed up. As long as I have that, I'm alright. Haven't written much/anything that I'd worry about losing. That said, it is simply a case of having Google's Backup & Sync automatically upload from my project folder.


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## NeonMediaKJT (Oct 3, 2021)

What's a good way to do so?
I tried Backblaze but I don't want a copy of my entire computer, just my samples and projects...


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## d.healey (Oct 3, 2021)

We had a discussion about this recently - https://vi-control.net/community/threads/what-do-you-back-up


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## MartinH. (Oct 3, 2021)

On a scale of 0 to 10, how worried should I be about this?


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## Kevin Fortin (Oct 3, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> On a scale of 0 to 10, how worried should I be about this?


If you're a working pro, it would probably be better to clone that drive and replace it just to be safe. (You would still have the old drive on the shelf as a temp backup.)

If you're a hobbyist with important documents already regularly backed up and some time to spare (i.e., you could handle having a few days or more of downtime and the tedium of reinstalling libraries) then maybe budget the cost of a replacement drive for sometime soon.

In my experience, hard drives seem to fail pretty soon after their warranty period expires.

Another component that can fail suddenly after a few years is the power supply, so everyone please keep that in mind.

Also have a spare CR2032 battery on hand to power the CMOS on the motherboard (that's for PC -- I don't know what the current battery type is for Mac systems).


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## d.healey (Oct 3, 2021)

Kevin Fortin said:


> hard drives seem to fail pretty soon after their warranty period expires


A warranty isn't going to retrieve your data. Backup from day 1.


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## LatinXCombo (Oct 3, 2021)

UNRAID for the win.... And yes, I am part of the "back up everything because you never know" school of thought.


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## Kent (Oct 3, 2021)

Kevin Fortin said:


> Just checking. Wouldn't want anyone to lose time and money to an unexpected drive failure.
> 
> (This is really just meant as a PSA.)


Love it


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## fakemaxwell (Oct 3, 2021)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> What's a good way to do so?
> I tried Backblaze but I don't want a copy of my entire computer, just my samples and projects...


You tell Backblaze what to backup, so if you just want certain folders you can select those in the setup.


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## ControlCentral (Oct 3, 2021)

Poster child here for doing backups after the data horse has left the computer barn. I did not have a robust backup plan. I needed to pull some drives to make room for my new backup drive--finally getting a real backup system together!-- and my cat jumped up and knocked the data drive with basically everything on it onto the floor rendering it inoperable. On the plus side it was sort of a Marie Kondo moment because realistically there was a lot of crap on there, but... yeah, don't be me, kids.




.


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## strojo (Oct 4, 2021)

I'm paranoid...

- 3 local copies (same physical location, different machines/NAS setups) of everything at all times. These are updated as needed (usually 1-2 times per week). 
- 1 physical offsite backup (in case of fire, flood, etc.) updated monthly. 
- 1 cloud backup of the super critical stuff only every night.

Why am I paranoid? Because I don't want to lose my data...ever!!! Many years ago my sister lost EVERYTHING (family photos, documents, etc.) because she had NO BACKUP. Three months ago my buddy's hard drive failed and he had NO BACKUP...guess what? He lost ALL of his business documents going back over a decade. Sending the SSD out to a recovery firm didn't do a thing for him.

You don't have to be as nuts as me with the number of copies I keep, but you do need to ask yourself "How would I feel if I lost everything tomorrow?" If that doesn't scare the crap out of you a little, then you can skip the backups.


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## thevisi0nary (Oct 7, 2021)

I think I spend more time tweaking / organizing my set up and backing up my files than I do making music =(


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## Muchogrande (Oct 19, 2021)

I'm using Backblaze on-demand & Macrium Reflect for nightly. I do a bootable clone of my OS drive too. Being bailed out once with that clone was enough to give me religion.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 19, 2021)

Just in the last year, I've lost 2 drives that weren't fully backed up, as in I do have backups, but they weren't as recent as I would have liked. What's worse is one I was going to backup after I cloned another drive. The drive cloned to the wrong drive - something about sector sizes not matching on the new drive. Sigh. 

The other was my studio computer. Fortunately, there weren't a whole lot of changes since my last backup. It crashed during a Windows update. Not planned as I normally make a system image before running the update.


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## SuperD (Oct 20, 2021)

fakemaxwell said:


> Got Backblaze going a few years ago and it's been great (along with regular backups onto HDDs). It's pretty quick with new files so I don't have to have a panic attack if something happens mid project.


Do you backup your libraries on Backblaze as well? Can you back up any files from external drives? What's the best software for regular HDD backups? I think last I heard it was Carbon Copy Cloner... Need to sort out some new solutions. I'm tired of replacing old drives and always upgrading sizes. Might just go for Backblaze.


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## MusiquedeReve (Oct 20, 2021)

I backup everything (including all sample libraries) to iDrive


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## PaulieDC (Oct 20, 2021)

Always a good reminder, thanks! I do have a QNAP with 4 WD Red drives set up striped and mirrored, so even if two drives go, I’m still good. That’s a huge archive warehouse really and every Library I’ve every downloaded plus all EW stuff that I bought on a drive gets backed up there. To protect against any ransomware attack, I also have four 5TB Seagate externals, plugged into a power strip with individual switches for each outlet. One is dedicated to photos, one to video projects, one to all music projects other than libraries, and one for all general files including QuickBooks and all that. Once I run the backup, I “eject” the drive from Windows then power it off. My biggest place for all files (not Cubase Projects) I use is OneDrive. No matter what it is, it goes into OneDrive so I have everything on every device. Every PDF with an article or sheet music, every training vid, installers for all the libraries, manuals, MIDI files to check out, Orchestration instruction, EVERYTHING. it syncs to my desktop, laptop and iOS devices so I always have copies. THEN I also back it up to one of the 5TB Seagates and then unplug it. Last, I take a system image of my C drive every so often, which has every program installed but zero user files. That also gets stored on an offline drive.

If you’ve read this far you’re probably screaming at me, asking HOW do I run backups, lol. Well, I’ve created several .BAT batch files that contain ROBOCOPY scripts to copy one drive or set of folders to the backup drives. ROBOCOPY is built into Windows and since it runs in a DOS window it flies, and it only copies new or changed files. You manually have to run these batch files but I prefer to do that. So if I work on a Cubase project I’ll quickly run the files to the QNAP, then once a week or so do the offline Seagates.

Sorry this was so long, I saw several asking how to actually backup, so I started blabbing it out. My apologies that none of this is for the Mac.

Actually, as Windows users we should be using File History, I’m not even sure why I have not set that up as I write this. All you do is take your folder where you keep all your projects, can be any drive on your system, And add it to a library on windows. Then you can tell file history to constantly back that library up to whatever connected backup drive you use whether it be USB plug-in or internal or Network external or whatever. The beauty of that is that it’s a repository database, which means that if you are working on a project for a month and you’ve hit save 127 times, you can go back to any one of those 127 versions and retrieve it from your external drive. I must be nuts, why am I not using that?

Anyway, a typical ROBOCOPY script looks like this… note that my Cubase project folder is on a dedicated SSD which I assigned the letter U: to. My backup QNAP is letter E:, so this will copy EVERYTHING the first time you run it, then each subsequent time it will only copy changes, and those backups go super fast. *Usual disclaimer, run this at your own risk, *there’s no Are You Sure to save you:


Right click the Start button and select Command Window AS ADMINISTRATOR. It might say Powershell, not Command, that’s fine, pick that. If you’re on Win 11 it’ll be called Windows Terminal, all the same thing as far as this goes.
Type this and hit enter. Obviously replace my paths with yours:
*ROBOCOPY /e /w:1 /r:1 “U:\Cubase\Projects” “E:\Backups\Cubase\Projects”* (all one line with a space between paths)

That copies everything in the project folder from the U: drive to the E: drive. The */e* tells it to copy all subdirectories, empty or not. The other two “switches” tell it to ignore extra Windows hidden files that can’t be copied anyway. Again—after the first time you run it which copies everything, rerunning it only does changes.

I put several in a batch file so I can copy several folders at once. If you know what a batch file is then you’ll know how to do it. If you don’t, save that for another day. It can be dangerous and we don’t want boo-boos. And PLEASE, if you are trying out ROBOCOPY for the first time, do it on a test folder until you get it right! If there's a syntax error, it'll tell you and nothing will get touched.


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## widescreen (Oct 21, 2021)

I have a backup with several steps:

1. Syncing in real-time everything I work on to my main NAS (8 drives, Virtual RAID5/SHR) with the most reliable NAS drives, I use HGST/WD Ultrastar (former IBM/Hitachi); search for statistics, they beat all. Never had any outage in 20 years. My sample archive is also there. So I can instantly reinstall any of them.

2. Snapshots every night in the file system: 30 daily versions, 4 weekly, 3 monthly.

3. Nightly sync with a smaller backup NAS (2 drives) at my parents-in-law. Same versioning as above. So I'm covered in case of fire or similar.

4. NO EXTERNAL CLOUD! NEVER EVER!

I use Synology and their CloudSync-Software (personal cloud!).


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## Tronam (Oct 21, 2021)

My backup situation is annoyingly messy and complicated, spread out across 4 or 5 drives because I was always too conservative with my storage purchases (the computer version of photographer camera bag/tripod syndrome). I dislike it so much that my next computer purchase will involve spending a ridiculous amount of money on one enormous all-encompassing consolidation drive for absolutely everything which I can then backup to another single drive. The simplicity is so enticing that I can barely contain my excitement.


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## SuperD (Oct 21, 2021)

widescreen said:


> 4. NO EXTERNAL CLOUD! NEVER EVER!


Why not?


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## PaulieDC (Oct 21, 2021)

widescreen said:


> I have a backup with several steps:
> 
> 1. Syncing in real-time everything I work on to my main NAS (8 drives, Virtual RAID5/SHR) with the most reliable NAS drives, I use HGST/WD Ultrastar (former IBM/Hitachi); search for statistics, they beat all. Never had any outage in 20 years. My sample archive is also there. So I can instantly reinstall any of them.
> 
> ...


So there's a robust backup plan that you were able to explain in a few sentences. I seriously think I need an English writing course or something, when I go to explain _anything_, it ends up being long enough to assign an ISBN to it.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 21, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> So there's a robust backup plan that you were able to explain in a few sentences. I seriously think I need an English writing course or something, when I go to explain _anything_, it ends up being long enough to assign an ISBN to it.


My ADHD brain not only makes it long but it doesn't always make sense. At least yours makes sense.


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## PaulieDC (Oct 21, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> My ADHD brain not only makes it long but it doesn't always make sense. At least yours makes sense.


😂 Well that's good to hear... I just need my typing to go on a diet.


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## widescreen (Oct 21, 2021)

SuperD said:


> Why not?



The question is: Why should I even consider external clouds? I only see disadvantages if you have a minimum of technical understanding and time. If you haven't both, external clouds are your thing!

I have only one reason standing over everything else: Control.

- I do not like to see myself naked in celebrity magazines (when I'm rich and famous as soon as I release my first piece of music) when (not if!) Apple, M$ or Google "lose" some data.

- I don't like my data getting scanned (like Apple already does).

- If someone gets my password I can simply pull off the cable and have all hard drives under my control.

- I can physically access my backup just by driving to my parents-in-law. Even if their Internet is down. Or mine. Or both.

- If I decide to delete something permanently, it IS deleted. Hammer proven, if necessary.

- Over time own hard drives are cheaper. Show me a cloud that stores 12TB for a yearly fee of ~ 50€. With a 10GBit connection.

I could go on like that for hours... 😉


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## Tronam (Oct 21, 2021)

I only backup my project files and regular documents to the cloud. There's no way I'm spending a bunch of money on 3rd party services and unlimited broadband connection to archive terabytes of sample data that'll take 6 months to upload.


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## Macrawn (Oct 21, 2021)

I'm using backblaze right now but I want an hdd backup. What do you folks use for that? I need like at least 12 tb but probably more than that. What are my options? 

Anyone with backblaze had to get their data back from them? How did it go?


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## SuperD (Oct 23, 2021)

Macrawn said:


> I'm using backblaze right now but I want an hdd backup. What do you folks use for that? I need like at least 12 tb but probably more than that. What are my options?
> 
> Anyone with backblaze had to get their data back from them? How did it go?


You could try one of these.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 23, 2021)

SuperD said:


> You could try one of these.


that looks good for simple backup.

reviews complain about it as a working drive - which i would not do.


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## tack (Oct 23, 2021)

widescreen said:


> The question is: Why should I even consider external clouds? I only see disadvantages if you have a minimum of technical understanding and time. If you haven't both, external clouds are your thing!
> 
> I have only one reason standing over everything else: Control.
> 
> ...


These specific points are handily addressed by using client side encryption. Doing this right and understanding where the potential traps may be (such as using first party software by the cloud storage provider) does require the aforementioned "minimum of technical understanding," admittedly.

Cost is certainly a factor too. The very cheap options provide dubious security.

But I see cloud storage as part of an overall balanced backup diet. My approach is:

Bulk data: typically replaceable with effort, e.g. sample libraries
Straight (non-versioned) copies on NAS
Weekly versioned snapshots to external disks in a monthly off-site rotation

Application data / configuration: not irreplaceable but annoying to create
daily versioned snapshots on NAS
daily versioned snapshots on cloud storage
weekly versioned snapshots to external disks (monthly off-site rotation)

Custom data: irreplaceable, like projects
hourly versioned snapshots on NAS
daily versioned snapshots to cloud storage
weekly versioned snapshots to external disks (monthly off-site rotation)


The risk with avoiding cloud storage is that you aren't appropriately resilient against major disasters. Anywhere that is conveniently reachable for a regular disk rotation is susceptible to the same large natural disasters that your off-site location across town is.

Personally I like knowing that should I happen to survive that asteroid turning half my city into a smoking crater, I can still access all my projects.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 23, 2021)

tack said:


> Personally I like knowing that should I happen to survive that asteroid turning half my city into a smoking crater, I can still access all my projects.


if you have power

see my UPS thread


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## widescreen (Oct 23, 2021)

tack said:


> These specific points are handily addressed by using client side encryption.



With the risk that something goes wrong with the encryption. I had that situation twice where people had something encrypted and had to have major efforts to get the encrypted data back.



tack said:


> The risk with avoiding cloud storage is that you aren't appropriately resilient against major disasters. Anywhere that is conveniently reachable for a regular disk rotation is susceptible to the same large natural disasters that your off-site location across town is.
> 
> Personally I like knowing that should I happen to survive that asteroid turning half my city into a smoking crater, I can still access all my projects.


Who said anything "across town"? My data is backed up 15 km away. That's enough for my purposes. An asteroid or atom bomb destroying more than a 15 km radius would get me definitely more problems than lost data as my whole family would be erased like half of the continent. Whole mankind would have great problems then, either. The last asteroid of such a size erased 95% of life on this planet. 

But everyone has a different focus. I just contributed mine to show people without experience a cost effective way that covers _nearly_ every possible situation.

Except that:


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## tack (Oct 23, 2021)

widescreen said:


> Who said anything "across town"? My data is backed up 15 km away. That's enough for my purposes.


Fair enough. I obviously can't argue with the "my purposes" part. For _my_ purposes, if I didn't have copies of my important data spread between different fault lines and floodplains I wouldn't feel comfortable.


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## Kevin Fortin (Oct 23, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> if you have power
> 
> see my UPS thread


Well, I already have a chessboard and my perimeter lights set up. 

Any suggestions about power generators?


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## dzilizzi (Oct 23, 2021)

Kevin Fortin said:


> Well, I already have a chessboard and my perimeter lights set up.
> 
> Any suggestions about power generators?


Might want to look into solar panels and battery banks.


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## MartinH. (Nov 2, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> On a scale of 0 to 10, how worried should I be about this?





Kevin Fortin said:


> If you're a working pro, it would probably be better to clone that drive and replace it just to be safe. (You would still have the old drive on the shelf as a temp backup.)
> 
> If you're a hobbyist with important documents already regularly backed up and some time to spare (i.e., you could handle having a few days or more of downtime and the tedium of reinstalling libraries) then maybe budget the cost of a replacement drive for sometime soon.
> 
> ...




I finally wanted to do that backup of that drive today, but apparently I already have some data loss. HDSentinel rated the drive as 0% healthy for a moment, and now it's back up to 67%. Not sure why. I'm trying to pull what I can from it, and then I'll try to secure erase it and get a warranty replacement. The drive was less than a year old.


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