# Interstellar :reason for minor/major alternation



## blougui (Feb 20, 2018)

I've been thinking about this since I've watched Interstellar : one theme is alternating from major to minor. I was wondering if it was a metaphore of the 2 options the team have to reach to right planet.This crucial choice they have to make :one is the good one, the other destination would mean their mission is a total failure.

Do you come to the same conclusion ? Have a different explanation ?


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## Darren Durann (Feb 20, 2018)

It sounds like you might be pulling off a college student's folly and overthinking a device that is very, very old. Try reading most books about Wagner's operas and that's practically ALL they do (to a much more extreme and silly degree). Btw, I'm not saying you're silly, because I used to do the same thing until I realized it was eating its way into my studies.

Maybe you'd benefit more checking into other works that employ a similar change (films, concert pieces, etc.). I'll leave it to you to find them for yourself...it's more likely you'll find something you like that way.


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## Rctec (Feb 20, 2018)

The idea was quite simple: that an experience could have an ambiguous and emotionally unstable outcome based on the human choices you made about one note. Nothing more...oh, and the accenting counterline gives me a better choice in the minor key.


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## Darren Durann (Feb 20, 2018)

Rctec said:


> The idea was quite simple: that an experience could have an ambiguous and emotionally unstable outcome based on the human choices you made about one note. Nothing more...oh, and the accenting counterline gives me a better choice in the minor key.



That is _*really*_ cool.


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## mac (Feb 20, 2018)

It still kinda blows my mind a little every time Hans replies in here.


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## Darren Durann (Feb 20, 2018)

Rctec said:


> The idea was quite simple: that an experience could have an ambiguous and emotionally unstable outcome based on the human choices you made about one note. Nothing more...oh, and the accenting counterline gives me a better choice in the minor key.



This blows my mind, _*whichever* _composer wrote it about his or her music. It comprehensively answered the question, and was inspiring.


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## NoamL (Feb 20, 2018)

I don't know about music theory but story-wise I always got the idea that there were two Coopers in this scene? Since Cooper "re-observes" all of these events, the second Cooper is in the bookcase right now telling Murph not to let Cooper 1 go, we just don't know it yet. The side by side major/minor 3rds also appears in the "Dust" scene where again there are two Coopers, we just don't know one exists yet.

I mean the movie does not have a happy ending. Sure he is reunited with Murph for 5 minutes at the end but he basically missed out on raising his family. It's like the twin paradox turned into a tragedy.

EDIT: and while I was looking up twin paradox the actual composer replied!


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## CT (Feb 20, 2018)

Rctec said:


> The idea was quite simple: that an experience could have an ambiguous and emotionally unstable outcome based on the human choices you made about one note. Nothing more...oh, and the accenting counterline gives me a better choice in the minor key.



That rising "accenting counterline" during the climax of the piece (the launch scene, for instance) totally makes it for me. It's thrilling!


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## blougui (Feb 21, 2018)

@Darren Durran : thanx for chiming in ! Sure, despite not being as fluent in theory nor in practice as you are (I'm not having a piss at you, I genuily mean it because I read your posts now and then - and saying so I would like to get the chance to listen to your work one day, at least because you are not in the competition for the New Loud and I have much respect for that) I have the knowledge of that 

In fact, I was asking because Mr Zimmer admited somewhere on this forum there was some reasoning behind the 60 bpm some of his Interstellar cues were based on (shifting to 120). Reading interviews as everyone, I understand there's from time to time some "subtext" at play between MM Nolan and Zimmer.

Considering that, when listening back to the score back then, it striked me this alternation could well be funded on the dilemma of choosing the right destination between the 2 left :one is right, one is death. I don't know why I decided to ask yesterday a couple of years afterward I'm not a fan of the movie ; but it's one of this rare occasion when the score was responsible for more than half my interest (or emotional response, call it however you like) during the screening. As far as I'm concerned, the whole thing falls apart without it. To each his own...

@Rctec: thanx for clarifying ! Invaluable


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## Darren Durann (Feb 21, 2018)

blougui said:


> @Darren Durran : thanx for chiming in ! Sure, despite not being as fluent in theory nor in practice as you are (I'm not having a piss at you, I genuily mean it because I read your posts now and then - and saying so I would like to get the chance to listen to your work one day, at least because you are not in the competition for the New Loud and I have much respect for that) I have the knowledge of that
> 
> In fact, I was asking because Mr Zimmer admited somewhere on this forum there was some reasoning behind the 60 bpm some of his Interstellar cues were based on (shifting to 120). Reading interviews as everyone, I understand there's from time to time some "subtext" at play between MM Nolan and Zimmer.
> 
> ...



I was at fault for not being up on the context. And I like the Interstellar movie...but I like the score itself_ way_ better. Same with Inception.

I hesitate to post anything because folks like maestro Zimmer are around. I am not even a gnat in comparison. There's no way I could do that, perhaps sometime I'll (to paraphrase Alec Baldwin of 30 Rock) "relax my balls" lol!.

You folks ain't missin' much; at best I echo my idols like Herrmann, Rozsa, Alfred Newman.

I am a modestly successful rock guy and a relatively unknown writer of concert music (I've written and recorded orchestral pieces with chorale and solo singers and just finished writing two symphonies at once...amazing what you can do when you try not to spend too much time at forums lol!).

I do it because I love it, though being able to pay the bills from time to time with it sure feels good, and I hope _*everyone*_ here gets to experience that kind of success. It's can be both gratifying and deeply affirming.

I want all the young composers here to see their dreams come true!


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## LandWaterSky (Feb 21, 2018)

I honestly believe Zimmer's music for Interstellar served the film better than any soundtrack in recent memory.


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## Darren Durann (Feb 21, 2018)

LandWaterSky said:


> I honestly believe that Zimmer's music for Interstellar served the film better that any soundtrack in recent memory.



As I mentioned, both that and Inception. I can't imagine the movie gripping me much at all without that score. It was so different, while staying musically quite engaging. It deepened the movie imo.


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## LandWaterSky (Feb 21, 2018)

Darren Durann said:


> As I mentioned, both that and Inception. I can't imagine the movie gripping me much at all without that score. It was so different, while staying musically quite engaging. It deepened the movie imo.


Absolutely right!


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## JVitolins (Feb 21, 2018)

Interstellar had such profound effect on me that I went science mad and read all of Stephen Hawking’s papers on black holes and a ton of Arthur C. Clarke’s and Isaac Asimov’s books. Definitely the best science fiction film since 2001: Space Odyssey. 
I even read the original Interstellar script that was meant to be directed by Spielberg instead of Nolan. It’s a very different plot with an even more tragic ending. Worth a read if you’re a fan of the movie.


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## LandWaterSky (Feb 21, 2018)

JVitolins said:


> Interstellar had such profound effect on me that I went science mad and read all of Stephen Hawking’s papers on black holes and a ton of Arthur C. Clarke’s and Isaac Asimov’s books. Definitely the best science fiction film since 2001: Space Odyssey.
> I even read the original Interstellar script that was meant to be directed by Spielberg instead of Nolan. It’s a very different plot with an even more tragic ending. Worth a read if you’re a fan of the movie.


Excellent information, thanks for sharing.


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## Darren Durann (Feb 21, 2018)

Yeah, don't anyone miss out on Arthur C. Clarke and Asimov! Childhood's End is the type of book you might NEVER forget. Amazing stuff. Asimov's stories are killer...and may I enter in the hallowed names of Bradbury and Matheson, though they were a bit more spread out in genres?

If interested in scores, check out maestro Jerry Goldsmith's Illustrated Man, Alien, Star Trek. Alex North's unfairly (yet rightly) rejected score for 2001 (it's hard to match the music Kubrick did put into that movie, but Alex was an awesome film composer and it says a lot an elite score like that got rejected in favor of acknowledged-as-immortal-even-then concert music). Williams' Empire (of course).


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## JVitolins (Feb 21, 2018)

Darren Durann said:


> Yeah, don't anyone miss out on Arthur C. Clarke and Asimov! Childhood's End is the type of book you might NEVER forget. Amazing stuff. Asimov's stories are killer...and may I enter in the hallowed names of Bradbury and Matheson, though they were a bit more spread out in genres?
> 
> If interested in scores, check out maestro Jerry Goldsmith's Illustrated Man, Alien, Star Trek. Alex North's unfairly (yet rightly) rejected score for 2001 (it's hard to match the music Kubrick did put into that movie, but Alex was an awesome film composer and it says a lot an elite score like that got rejected in favor of acknowledged-as-immortal-even-then concert music). Williams' Empire (of course).


I also read somewhere that Jonathan Nolan was going to adapt Asimov’s Foundation into screenplay. Not sure if it ever went through or not.
I didn’t realise Alex North’s rejected score was available. Must check it out. I hope the late Johann Johannsson’s rejected score for Blade Runner also becomes available.


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## Darren Durann (Feb 21, 2018)

JVitolins said:


> I also read somewhere that Jonathan Nolan was going to adapt Asimov’s Foundation into screenplay. Not sure if it ever went through or not.
> I didn’t realise Alex North’s rejected score was available. Must check it out. I hope the late Johann Johannsson’s rejected score for Blade Runner also becomes available.



Alex was a really accomplished composer (his "Cleopatra" is a monster!). Kubrick also did him an unfair dirty by saying that (paraphrase) "no film composers match up to the greats like Strauss, Penderecki, etc." I don't think as many people would agree with him today as they did then. Shoot, back then you had the powerhouses like Rozsa, Goldsmith (firing on all cylinders with concert-level scores like Planet of the Apes and Freud)...tell me Bernard's score for Psycho won't be remembered more than Penderecki (and this is coming from a Penderecki enthusiast btw).

As far as holding up film music as _absolute music _it's true, we're not going to find Beethoven's late Kammermusik-level stuff there (or anywhere else, really). But film music can be very great music, and more people than ever are hearing that today.

Give Ben Hur a spin sometime, without watching the movie.


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## JVitolins (Feb 21, 2018)

Darren Durann said:


> Alex was a really accomplished composer (his "Cleopatra" is a monster!). Kubrick also did him an unfair dirty by saying that (paraphrase) "no film composers match up to the greats like Strauss, Penderecki, etc." I don't think as many people would agree with him today as they did then. Shoot, back then you had the powerhouses like Rozsa, Goldsmith (firing on all cylinders with concert-level scores like Planet of the Apes and Freud)...tell me Bernard's score for Psycho won't be remembered more than Penderecki (and this is coming from a Penderecki enthusiast btw).
> 
> As far as holding up film music as _absolute music _it's true, we're not going to find Beethoven's late Kammermusik-level stuff there (or anywhere else, really). But film music can be very great music, and more people than ever are hearing that today.
> 
> Give Ben Hur a spin sometime, without watching the movie.


Funnily enough I was listening to Goldsmith’s Planet Of The Apes and Penderecki’s Hiroshima just last week whilst watching over my kids play in playground and yes I loved Ben Hur...still haven’t seen the movie though I’m guessing wouldn’t be the best watch ever.
If you like Pendercki you might enjoy Greenwood’s There Will Be Blood both the score and the movie.


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## SterlingArcher (Feb 22, 2018)

mac said:


> It still kinda blows my mind a little every time Hans replies in here.



It always amazes me that he has time to with what he gets up to everyday.


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## Leon Portelance (Feb 25, 2018)

I bet Foundation will be a great series, when they finally make it.


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