# The Rhapsodillo (for virtual piano and mock-orchestra)



## re-peat (Sep 5, 2021)

*The Rhapsodillo.*

_


----------



## Double Helix (Sep 5, 2021)

. . . exactly (!)
(Also, quite a musical excursion-- was going to add "interesting," but I remembered that it's a loaded term on VI-C)


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva (Sep 6, 2021)

re-peat said:


> *The Rhapsodillo.*
> The rhapsodillo (Phaedrophractus Retusus) is a rarely seen psoridermic tolypeutes of ebullient temperament that lives in moist environments where it feeds on eclectisms and pastichio nuts.
> A musical portrait of this fascinating creature.


I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT !!! Brilliant piece, very well done! Funny intro!


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva (Sep 6, 2021)

Double Helix said:


> . . . exactly (!)
> (Also, quite a musical excursion-- was going to add "interesting," but I remembered that it's a loaded term on VI-C)


It's funny because my husband just told me that the piece reminded him of Emerson Lake and Palmer's album _Works Volume 1_ and especially the piece _Tank_ and the album _Tarkus_ that had this cover:


​Isn't that weird?


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva (Sep 6, 2021)

re-peat said:


> *The Rhapsodillo.*
> 
> _


May I ask: what program do you use for composing? Is it Dorico, Notion, Sibelius, Finale or something else? Not for final engraving but for composing using notation. Also is it VSL libs?


----------



## re-peat (Sep 6, 2021)

Hi Tatiana,

First of all, thanks very much.

The only ELP album I’m familiar with is indeed “Works Volume 1”. Other than that, and excepting the well-known 'greatest hits', the band’s output is largely unknown to me, I must confess. (Rock jazz, jazz rock, prog rock, symphonic rock, … not exactly the types of music I’ve ever been much interested in.)

But ‘Works’ includes Emerson’s Piano Concerto of course, and that’s a piece which has numerous sections I’ve always rather liked. I don’t think it’s one of the great piano concertos, but it’s certainly a piece that contains some wonderful ideas and lots of highly enjoyable music. A pity the actual recording of the concerto is so bad (technically speaking, that is), I always thought.

Anyway, I never had the Emerson concerto in mind when doing this Rhapsodillo piece, but I can hear now how someone would make that connection. (And the armadillo reference is indeed a weird coincidence.)

I don’t use a specific program for composing. I don’t use any notation either. (Entirely self-taught I am, and while I can read and write music — dots on staves, you know — I’m nowhere near fluent enough at it to benefit from it when making music.)
I ‘hear’ the music in my head (as vague a description of my writing process as that is), I do the structuring and orchestration in my head as well. And I record whatever I come up with in Logic. There’s quite a lot of improvisation that enters into it as well. The piano part in this piece, for example, is largely improvised. (I’m not proud of that, because its improvisatory nature is also its biggest weakness, I feel.)

And anything that deviates from what I had in mind, is due to the samples refusing to play ball. A frustration we all know about, I suppose. (There’s several spots in this piece that are not quite what I had imagined them to be, where I was forced to use different instruments only because the sampled versions of the ones I had planned to use just didn’t work.)


Thanks again.
And please, pass on my most grateful sympathies to your amazing husband as well!

_


----------



## Bollen (Sep 6, 2021)

re-peat said:


> is due to the samples refusing to play ball. A frustration we all know about, I suppose


Sigh...! I agree with you about the improvisatory nature of the piano, it's wonderful piece nevertheless!


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva (Sep 6, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Hi Tatiana, First of all, thanks very much.


My pleasure. It's really a wonderful piece. We really loved it!


re-peat said:


> The only ELP album I’m familiar with is indeed “Works Volume 1”. Other than that, and excepting the well-known 'greatest hits', the band’s output is largely unknown to me, I must confess. (Rock jazz, jazz rock, prog rock, symphonic rock, … not exactly the types of music I’ve ever been much interested in.)
> 
> But ‘Works’ includes Emerson’s Piano Concerto of course, and that’s a piece which has numerous sections I’ve always rather liked. I don’t think it’s one of the great piano concertos, but it’s certainly a piece that contains some wonderful ideas and lots of highly enjoyable music. A pity the actual recording of the concerto is so bad (technically speaking, that is), I always thought.


Same here. Not familar with prog rock, etc. but my husband has a fairly extensive knowledge of many genres so I rely on him a lot in those areas 


re-peat said:


> Anyway, I never had the Emerson concerto in mind when doing this Rhapsodillo piece, but I can hear now how someone would make that connection. (And the armadillo reference is indeed a weird coincidence.)


I think he was thinking more about the piece _Tank_ although he really likes the Concerto too. The armadillo was just, as you say, a weird coincidence! 


re-peat said:


> I don’t use a specific program for composing. I don’t use any notation either. (Entirely self-taught I am, and while I can read and write music — dots on staves, you know — I’m nowhere near fluent enough at it to benefit from it when making music.)


It makes it makes the whole thing even more impressive! Bravo!


re-peat said:


> I ‘hear’ the music in my head (as vague a description of my writing process as that is), I do the structuring and orchestration in my head as well. And I record whatever I come up with in Logic. There’s quite a lot of improvisation that enters into it as well. The piano part in this piece, for example, is largely improvised. (I’m not proud of that, because its improvisatory nature is also its biggest weakness, I feel.)


Still, again, very impressive! 


re-peat said:


> And anything that deviates from what I had in mind, is due to the samples refusing to play ball. A frustration we all know about, I suppose. (There’s several spots in this piece that are not quite what I had imagined them to be, where I was forced to use different instruments only because the sampled versions of the ones I had planned to use just didn’t work.)


Strange sounding samples or refusing to cooperate is indeed still a too common occurance regardless of the amazing progress made in the last few years. People from outside of our field, even pro musicians, cannot sometimes believe that what they hear is virtual. It seems that not so long ago the slogan was:




​


re-peat said:


> Thanks again. And please, pass on my most grateful sympathies to your amazing husband as well!


My pleasure, really. And my husband sends his kind salutations accompanied by a resounding *Bravo!*


----------



## Rob (Sep 6, 2021)

Wish the music I have to deal with every day was half as good as yours Piet... love the integrity of your productions, the rhythmic impulse, how you manage to be delicate and touching without any hint of sentimentalism. Thank you for an enjoyable listen


----------



## Iskra (Sep 7, 2021)

Wonderful piece Piet, I enjoyed it since the 1st bar. Great rhythmic drive and wonderful textures from the orchestra. Plus, great to hear a lot of dynamics in the piece, that bring it incredibly close to a real orchestra and pianist performing - and something I surely miss in a lot of virtual orchestral pieces
Bravissimo!


----------



## re-peat (Sep 7, 2021)

Rob, Iskra, 
Thanks very, very much!

_


----------



## dariusofwest (Sep 7, 2021)

What a lovely track! Great writing and programming!


----------



## Dan (Sep 7, 2021)

Wow, great piece! I enjoyed it immensely. Just a joy to listen to and very well done in terms of realism. The pure energy of it all reminds me of some of Prokofiev's concertos. Very impressive.


----------



## re-peat (Sep 7, 2021)

Thanks verrrrry much, Darius and Dan!

_


----------



## nanotk (Sep 7, 2021)

Wonderfull piece, I definitively love it !


----------



## Guy Bacos (Sep 7, 2021)

This is top-notch music. I agree with Dan about a reminder of the energy of Prokofiev's concertos.
I was surprised to hear a genuine coda; I remembered that your pieces rarely had an ending. Also, the sound is great.


----------



## servandus (Sep 7, 2021)

Indeed, a pleasure to listen. It's thoroughly enjoyable, but I think the brief fugato section starting at 1:30 struck me the most, both as an isolated fragment and in context. It really works wonderfully. After the contrasting section introduced by the "Stravinskyan" solo trumpet, one of course expects the soloist to build up tension again before relaxing into the beautiful middle section at 1:54... but the sudden caesura with which the fugato starts, and how freely it then unfolds, I really find that a brilliant decision. Love it.


The way the material is treated after the slow section in order to start moving things forward again at 2:28 is also very refreshing... and I actually laughed because I just couldn't avoid hearing Ravel's Jeux d'eau  At that point I didn't know if it was intentional or not, but I found it witty and funny. The fact that you used precisely that material at the end of the coda just before freely quoting the closing gesture of the first movement of his first piano concerto, and the fact that you wrote it precisely in G, more or less confirmed my suspicions 


I don't know, even if you mention the improvisatory character of the piece, and in spite its obvious rhapsodic ways, I hear so many right, conscious decisions, both in the structure/narrative of the piece and the material used, that it's hard to imagine such a thing coming out in real time without any careful planning. I guess that's the reason why the feeling of it being a part of a larger structure, i.e. a full piano concerto, was very strong.


Congratulations and thanks for sharing it. Left me wanting more


----------



## re-peat (Sep 7, 2021)

Thanks very much, *Guy*. Your words mean a lot, coming as they do from someone whose every work shared with us is a true masterclass in writing, orchestrating and programming. Really much appreciated.

*Servandus*, a huuuge thanks too! And your insightful comments on the ingredients of the music are all so right, so well-informed and so perceptive that it almost sounds as if were you sitting at my side for much of the time during which this piece was made. My head was constantly nodding agreeingly reading your post.

The outer movements of the Ravel concerto and much of Ravel’s other (piano) music are a major inspiration, and every reference, literal or otherwise, to those masterpieces and its composer is indeed wholly intentional. It’s nice that someone notices because these things were put in there to be noticed (as are the influences from Stravinsky, Shostakovitch and Prokofiev.)

When I said earlier that the piano part is largely improvised — which, in essence, it is —, perhaps I should have added that after the improvisation stage comes a rather long and work-intensive time during which I re-organize the material (looking at it from a distance in order to get some angle on the organization of the piece in its entirety, rather then remaining focused on the various sections in isolation), work on the transitional episodes, and gradually mould the lot into something that has what I consider logic, coherence and structure and that also unfolds in a to my mind satisfying way.

Thanks gain!

__


----------



## Loïc D (Sep 8, 2021)

Wow, impressive and very enjoyable.
I can see myself listening to it performed by an orchestra in a concert hall.
Considering you’re self-taught I’m a bit speechless 

Bravo !


----------



## re-peat (Sep 8, 2021)

Big thanks, Loïc!

_


----------



## kgdrum (Sep 8, 2021)

@re-peat 

I always eagerly look forward to hearing new musical compositions you share with us here but this? WOW! 
This is really beautiful,the arrangement,colors,use of dynamics,pacing and orchestration are really superb!
Yeah I really like your music but this? 
WOW! 🎶❤️🎶


----------



## b_elliott (Sep 8, 2021)

Wow indeed.

Your mixing skills are superior.

For fun I compared your offering to my .flac Decca Recordings of Leopold Stowkowki (Stravinsky, Dance of The Firebird).

Your track sounds just as rich as the Decca which is saying something.
I also threw your track up on Master Match to compare the EQ curves. Yours has more bass, otherwise a similar EQ curve. My Decca recording shows 1965-72, so this shows the advantage of current technology.

As Oliver Twist once said, "Please Sir, I want some more."

Cheers, Bill


----------



## re-peat (Sep 8, 2021)

Bill, kg, many-many-many thanks!

It could be more a case of good luck and fortunate choices than proof of whatever skills I may have that this mix came out as well as it did, because, to tell the truth, I didn’t do all that much this time — maybe arriving at that decision is a skill too — and there’s surprisingly few plugins at work here. Really very few.

There’s a small handful of instances of the Crave EQ (all of them used for corrective purposes), all the reverberation is taken care of by a couple of instances of the Phoenix, except for the piano which was sent through IrcamSPAT (and nothing else), and at the end of the chain there’s a Sonnox limiter (with very modest settings). That’s all. No compressors, no expanders, no tape- or saturation plugins, no maximizers, … I’m a little surpised myself when I look at my Logic document and see how few of the slots have a plugin in them.

Oh, wait, I forgot, there's one instance of the Clariphonic too, inserted just before the Sonnox.

A thing that might have made a difference — difficult to say that with any certainty though — is that I took some time to do proper gain staging. A first for me. Saw a video on that a few weeks ago, and decided to give it try with this mix. Undoubtedly an advantage, and this I *am* sure about, is that you seem to have much more headroom for the dynamics if you do some gain staging prior to mixing. So, I’m pretty sure I’m going to keep doing that in future projects.

Thanks again very much.

_


----------



## b_elliott (Sep 8, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Bill, kg, many-many-many thanks!
> 
> It could be more a case of good luck and fortunate choices than proof of whatever skills I may have that this mix came out as well as it did, because, to tell the truth, I didn’t do all that much this time — maybe arriving at that decision is a skill too — and there’s surprisingly few plugins at work here. Really very few.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for taking the time to relay this info. 

Your minimalist approach would strike a huge note of agreement from Lee Sklar (bassist on @5000 records) who ̶g̶r̶i̶p̶e̶d̶ was frustrated with how much mixers/engineers would ruin the sound of products he worked on. Produce Like a Pro graciously posted the interview; but, it got me to thinking like Sklar, like you.

May I ask a favor? Since I am learning the art of mixing, I posted a question about the VU meter response between two different recordings. If you have a chance, I would love to have some clarification. 

Cheers, Bill


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva (Sep 8, 2021)

I might have missed it but what instrumental libraries did you use for this piece? It sounds amazingly good. Again, thank you for sharing!


----------



## re-peat (Sep 8, 2021)

Tatiana, it’s a mix of some _very_ old and some very new libraries, and some others from the years in between.

The oldest one, and we're talking the almost pre-historic days of orchestral sampling here, is the library I used for the flügelhorn solo, and that’s Nick Phoenix Quantum Leap Epic Brass for … the Akai S-1000. (The library was released sometime around the year 2000, if I remember correctly). Sure, there have been much better and more expressive virtual flügelhorns released since, but somehow this primitive old thing came closest to what I had in mind for that solo. There’s no predicting what will or won’t work, is there? And specs don't matter much if an instrument's character and timbre just won't match with the music. I tried many virtual trumpets, cornets and flügelhorns, all of them objectively better in every way than the one I ended up using, but only when I heard the Quantum Leap instrument rendering the notes, did I say: “That’s the one.”

The other brass is all BBCSO (Pro). A few trombones, a cimbasso, and some horns. Not totally pleased with them because since a few years, Spitfire seems to have gone into the habit of recording most of their instruments as if intended exclusively for very slow music, whereas I prefer my instruments, especially when playing staccato, to have a bit of snap and crispyness. (I had to do a few audio editing tricks to give the BBC Brass a bit more pizzazz.) But the sound of BBCSO is stellar of course.

Woodwinds are all BBCSO too. (Same misgivings as I have with the brass.) Except those four chords in the middle of the piece which were ‘painted’ with a combination of several popular libraries. I can't recall precisely which ones because that bit is also rendered to audio, but it can't have been any other than the well-known ones cause those are what I have. (I’m still not satisfied with any sampled woodwinds, so I fumble around with everything I got until I hear something that’s reasonably acceptable.)

The strings are a mixed bag. The pizzicati were all done with the VSL Elite Strings. (Thanks again to Guy Bacos here, because it was his piece “Race Against Fate” that eventually made me decide to buy the library after all, despite the many doubts I had about the Elites after listening to all the other demos.)
I normally always reach for Spitfire Sable or the Spitfire Bespoke libraries to do all my pizzicato work with — and I still think they have the strongest, most convincing timbre of them all — but when using the Spitfire’s, the piece sort of plodded too much I felt, and I just couldn’t get rid of that heavy-footed feeling no matter what I tried. Things changed immediately however when replacing the Spitfire pizzicati with the VSL Elite ones: all of a sudden, the music got this breezy, up-beat, forward moving quality and energy that had always eluded me before. It still amazes me, even after more than two decades of working with samples, what a change of libraries can do. (It’s like a change of bassdrum in a drumkit. Unbelievable sometimes what a dramatic change to the entire kit that can bring about.)

I did use the Spitfire Bespoke Chamber Strings for most of the other string work though. With a few overdubs from the Orchestral Tools First Chairs here and there. And Spitifre’s Abbey Road One is present too in that its Legendary Low Strings expansion handles all the low strings duties. And does so very well, I find.

What else? Oh, the percussion, yes. Not much to tell. The bassdrum is from the ToonTrack Orchestral Percussion SDX — an excellent library which receives far too little attention, if you ask me —, the timpani hits are Spitfire’s and the timpani rolls were done with Synchron Percussion 1.

And there’s a xylophone too. It only plays three notes in the entire piece, but it took me — again — quite some time to find just the right xylophone for it. You’d think, ooh, any xylophone will do, surely? Nothing could be further from the truth. I tried six or seven different xylophones, none gave me what I wanted. And then I loaded up the old one from ProjectSam’s TrueStrike 1 and that one settled the matter instantly.

Talking about ProjectSam, the harp is Sam’s too.

And lastly, the piano. That’s the Galaxy VintageD. Not completely happy with it, but it’s the one that annoyed me least of all the ones I tried (and I tried a lot of them). I even tried combinations of libraries: a dry-ish one for the main sound combined with the releases and room response from Simple Sam. Didn’t work.

Now, I’m not going to off again here on one of my Synchron Pianos rants, I’ve said enough on the subject already in other threads, but I do want to say one thing: I really feel, strongly feel, that the Synchron Steinway should have worked in this music. It is touted and sold as being the ultimate concert piano and, on paper, it is the ideal instrument for this kind of music. In reality however, it didn’t work at all. Even to the point that I couldn’t even listen my way through the entire piece because the Synchron Steinway was so fatigueing and irritating on the ears. Clangy, harsh, un-nuanced, obnoxious. (And believe me, I tweaked the thing like there was no tomorrow, but I just couldn’t, and still can’t, get a satisfying sound, let alone performance out of it. I really do not like that library. Real shame.)

And that’s it. (I just had a look at the tracklist, and I think I covered everything.)

Thanks again!

_


----------



## b_elliott (Sep 8, 2021)

re-peat said:


> ... fatigueing and irritating on the ears. Clangy, harsh, un-nuanced, obnoxious.


Umm, for a moment there I thought you strayed off topic to discuss something dear to me: my tracks! 

Glad to know we're still cool.  Cheers, B


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva (Sep 8, 2021)

Thank you VERY MUCH Piet for your very detailed reply!! Always fascinating to know how other composers construct and produce their original pieces. You are obviously a perfectionist! The result speaks for itself. Thank you again for your time and effort! Much appreciated and very illuminating!


----------



## Guy Bacos (Sep 10, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Thanks very much, *Guy*. Your words mean a lot, coming as they do from someone whose every work shared with us is a true masterclass in writing, orchestrating and programming. Really much appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> __


I felt a little uneasy responding to this, but it's high praise coming from someone whose talent and skills I admire, especially with compositions like "The Rhapsodillo."


----------



## zah (Nov 6, 2021)

re-peat said:


> *The Rhapsodillo.*
> 
> _


Having trouble with download link... :(


----------

