# Good library to accompany Albion one?



## Andrew_m (Dec 29, 2016)

I'm looking for a second ensemble library which includes various sections. I was looking at majestica or Albion II as options to give my music more tonal variance. Any feedback given or suggestions to other libraries much appreciated!

EDIT: Here are a few of the libraries I have:

Anthology strings
Olympus Choir
Albion one
Agitato String bundle
Auddict Master brass, Octohorn and violin


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## Lawson. (Dec 29, 2016)

What type of music do you write?


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## Andrew_m (Dec 29, 2016)

Lawson. said:


> What type of music do you write?


I'm attempting to get into TV and Film composition - As of now I'm just a student - I don't have a particular tone I stick to in terms of music. Since Albion one is great for a neutral sound, I'm trying to find a library which can help my music be flexible in either a softer or more 'epic' sense. Whichever library you think has the best bang for buck


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## John Busby (Dec 29, 2016)

East West Composer Cloud


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## robgb (Dec 29, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> I'm looking for a second ensemble library which includes various sections. I was looking at majestica or Albion II as options to give my music more tonal variance. Any feedback given or suggestions to other libraries much appreciated!


I just received Adagietto for Christmas and really love it. And you can't beat the price, which will be gone in a day or two. Full ensembles plus individual patches for each instrument, sustains, legato, spiccato, staccato, trem, portamento, etc., and really gorgeous sordino strings. And it sounds great. I haven't used it with Albion One yet, but here's a very quick and dirty test of the two working together, right out of the box. I'm sure a bit of tweaking would make it sound much better...



https://8dio.com/instrument/adagietto-vst-au-aax-kontakt-instruments-samples/


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## Andrew_m (Dec 29, 2016)

robgb said:


> I just received Adagietto for Christmas and really love it. And you can't beat the price, which will be gone in a day or two. Full ensembles plus individual patches for each instrument, sustains, legato, spiccato, staccato, trem, portamento, etc. And it sounds great. I haven't used it with Albion One yet, but here's a very quick and dirty test of the two working together, right out of the box. I'm sure a bit of tweaking would make it sound much better...


I actually have the anthology collection  thanks to a nice discount from prior purchases. Thanks for the recommendation though, as I know this library - I know it's a good one!


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## robgb (Dec 29, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> I actually have the anthology collection  thanks to a nice discount from prior purchases. Thanks for the recommendation though, as I know this library - I know it's a good one!


I'm drooling over Anthology. Especially after using Adagietto. Congrats.


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## Andrew_m (Dec 29, 2016)

robgb said:


> I'm drooling over Anthology. Especially after using Adagietto. Congrats.


Thank you! I purchased it a week ago and have been on vacation since. Believe you me, I'm drooling just as much as you are to play the dang library!


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## Andrew_m (Dec 29, 2016)

johnbusbymusic said:


> East West Composer Cloud


I heard performance with a lot of EW sounds were rather demanding. I'm working with 16gb intel i7 6700k


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## Mike Fox (Dec 29, 2016)

I can't recommend Majestica at all. I borderline hate that library. Ark 1 would be a much better choice!

If you want an Ensemble library, I recommend getting the other Albions, or Orchestral Essentials 1 and 2. You can get the OE bundle for about $450 from JRR Shop after you add them to your cart. Nothing will beat that for the price, IMHO.


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## Andrew_m (Dec 29, 2016)

mikefox789 said:


> I can't recommend Majestica at all. I borderline hate that library. Ark 1 would be a much better choice!
> 
> If you want an Ensemble library, I recommend getting the other Albions, or Orchestral Essentials 1 and 2. You can get the OE bundle for about $450 from JRR Shop after you add them to your cart. Nothing will beat that for the price, IMHO.


I've heard such good things about Ark 1 - can it perform large-scale orchestra like Majestica can?


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## ctsai89 (Dec 29, 2016)

mikefox789 said:


> I can't recommend Majestica at all. I borderline hate that library. Ark 1 would be a much better choice!
> 
> If you want an Ensemble library, I recommend getting the other Albions, or Orchestral Essentials 1 and 2. You can get the OE bundle for about $450 from JRR Shop after you add them to your cart. Nothing will beat that for the price, IMHO.



hahahaha majestica. I think i know where you're coming from on that. It's quite a simple library tbh. Their demoes made it sound way better (which is possible) but you'd be tweaking EQ/compression and figuring out how much bass to boost up and when to do that for days before it happens.


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## ctsai89 (Dec 29, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> I'm looking for a second ensemble library which includes various sections. I was looking at majestica or Albion II as options to give my music more tonal variance. Any feedback given or suggestions to other libraries much appreciated!
> 
> EDIT: Here are a few of the libraries I have:
> 
> ...



first, I can recommend spitfire symphonic brass. Because the trumpets in Albion One isn't as smooth as some of the notes are softer than another on the sustains. You'll need the performance legato of a6 trumpets from SSB! and its trombone a6 have cuivre programmed into the cc#1 for easy pp > FFF dynamic playing.


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## Andrew_m (Dec 29, 2016)

ctsai89 said:


> hahahaha majestica. I think i know where you're coming from on that. It's quite a simple library tbh. Their demoes made it sound way better (which is possible) but you'd be tweaking EQ/compression and figuring out how much bass to boost up and when to do that for days before it happens.


Seems like the consensus is that majestica sucks.


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## Andrew_m (Dec 29, 2016)

ctsai89 said:


> first, I can recommend spitfire symphonic brass. Because the trumpets in Albion One isn't as smooth as some of the notes are softer than another on the sustains. You'll need the performance legato of a6 trumpets from SSB! and its trombone a6 have cuivre programmed into the cc#1 for easy pp > FFF dynamic playing.


I know their Symphonic brass and woodwinds look simply incredible - sadly they're above my price-range.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 29, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> I heard performance with a lot of EW sounds were rather demanding. I'm working with 16gb intel i7 6700k



They can be _*really*_ demanding.


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## Andrew_m (Dec 29, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> They can be _*really*_ demanding.


Thanks for the warning


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## John Busby (Dec 29, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> Thanks for the warning


with 16gb of ram - put CC on an ssd, you shouldn't have any issues
the sound of blending Albion with HW strings and then adding some Spaces, mmmm so good


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 29, 2016)

johnbusbymusic said:


> with 16gb of ram - put CC on an ssd, you shouldn't have any issues
> the sound of blending Albion with HW strings and then adding some Spaces, mmmm so good



I use those layers all the time, sounds amazing imo. But I have all those on a Samsung TB 500. And they load real nice like that.


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## Andrew_m (Dec 29, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> I use those layers all the time, sounds amazing imo. But I have all those on a Samsung TB 500. And they load real nice like that.


I only have one 2tb HDD available to me - so I must be cautious of size.


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## John Busby (Dec 29, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> I only have one 2tb HDD available to me - so I must be cautious of size.


just food for thought - if you only have 1 hdd, you might need to make your next investment in an ssd of somekind
as it stands right now you have some pretty awesome string libraries
just my 2


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 29, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> I only have one 2tb HDD available to me - so I must be cautious of size.



I strongly recommend an external SSD drive of at least 500 GB. Trust me, investing in that will save you a lot of headaches in the future. It's not cool when you're inspired and are kept waiting for your tools.


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## LamaRose (Dec 29, 2016)

Ark 2 or Tundra.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 29, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> I've heard such good things about Ark 1 - can it perform large-scale orchestra like Majestica can?


Let me put it this way, Ark 1 is what Majestica should have been. Theres some cool things in Majestica, but it's a ridiculously overpriced library.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 29, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> Seems like the consensus is that majestica sucks.


It doesnt suck. Its just not what you hope it to be.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 29, 2016)

mikefox789 said:


> Let me put it this way, Ark 1 is what Majestica should have been. Theres some cool things in Majestica, but it's a ridiculously overpriced library.



Some day I will be completely all over Ark 1, JUST because its so ridiculously good at what it does (consumerism at its most despicable lol!). I need it like a hole in the head, but I imagine the original poster would have a BALL with that library. Anyone just starting out on tools would probably go crazy over it if they love epic music.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 29, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> Some day I will be completely all over Ark 1, JUST because its so ridiculously good at what it does (consumerism at its most despicable lol!). I need it like a hole in the head, but I imagine the original poster would have a BALL with that library. Anyone just starting out on tools would probably go crazy over it if they love epic music.


Oh, completely! My only gripe is that it is a wet library, and you're pretty much stuck with that. It works incredibly well with stacking with dryer libs though!


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## Andrew_m (Dec 29, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> Some day I will be completely all over Ark 1, JUST because its so ridiculously good at what it does (consumerism at its most despicable lol!). I need it like a hole in the head, but I imagine the original poster would have a BALL with that library. Anyone just starting out on tools would probably go crazy over it if they love epic music.


I wouldn't say I'm too inexperienced with production - I'm looking primarily for greatest flexibility yet with a less neutral sound you get from Albion One. Ark one seems to fit this case. I'm not looking for novelty here. It's all about practicality.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 29, 2016)

ctsai89 said:


> hahahaha majestica. I think i know where you're coming from on that. It's quite a simple library tbh. Their demoes made it sound way better (which is possible) but you'd be tweaking EQ/compression and figuring out how much bass to boost up and when to do that for days before it happens.


The problem with those demos is that they are the same ones for 8W, which utilizes the included close mic. That makes a world of difference. If Majestica included the close mic, I might feel a little differently about it. But yeah, who the hell knows what kind of eq, compression, etc. they added.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 29, 2016)

Oh yeah, completely forget Majestica If you only have 16gb.


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## Andrew_m (Dec 29, 2016)

mikefox789 said:


> Oh yeah, completely forget Majestica If you only have 16gb.


Yet ark1 should be fine for 16 gigs? Also - would you happen to have V8P access? - I've always been curious what they had in there


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## Mike Fox (Dec 29, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> Yet ark1 should be fine for 16 gigs? Also - would you happen to have V8P access? - I've always been curious what they had in there


Well, I have 16gb on my machine, and it struggles after several instances. I have zero problems with Ark 1.

I dont have V8P access, but I know people that do. From what I understand, it was a major slap in the face, because the two main libraries were basically released to the general public (Majestica and Lacrimosa). The only main difference is that they have an extra mic position and a couple of other bells and whistles. After spending 2K to get access to V8P, I believe they wanted an extra couple of grand for 8W. Pricing could have changed by now though. Regardless, 8dio screwed their V8P members over by releasing Majestica and Lacrimosa. "What happens in V8P, stays in V8P" was their slogan for it. I never would have bought Majestica in the first place had I known about their little shenanigans.


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## robgb (Dec 29, 2016)

ctsai89 said:


> but you'd be tweaking EQ/compression and figuring out how much bass to boost up and when to do that for days before it happens.


Isn't that what getting the right sound is all about? If you aren't EQing and compressing your mixes, you're doing something wrong...


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## ctsai89 (Dec 29, 2016)

robgb said:


> Isn't that what getting the right sound is all about? If you aren't EQing and compressing your mixes, you're doing something wrong...



you could pull up spitfire products, not mix or EQ at all nor use anything but everything straight out of the box, FRESH and sound like you're not doing something wrong.


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## robgb (Dec 29, 2016)

ctsai89 said:


> you could pull up spitfire products, not mix or EQ at all nor use anything but everything straight out of the box, FRESH and sound like you're not doing something wrong.


We'll have to disagree about that. Mixing is an art and anyone doing orchestral mockups should take the time to learn that art.


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## ctsai89 (Dec 29, 2016)

robgb said:


> We'll have to disagree about that. Mixing is an art and anyone doing orchestral mockups should take the time to learn that art.



i.e. bumping the volume up for woodwinds when they have melody over the strings? that won't sound good by the way. You can CC#1 down all the way for strings to let the woodwinds out. If you want your mockups to sound like you're sitting at the center mid front of the hall and listening to an actually orchestra playing, only use the tree mics and the voluems aren't normalized. Any unwarranted extra mixing/EQing will likely mess up your mix if you don't know what you're doing.


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## Andrew_m (Dec 29, 2016)

mikefox789 said:


> Well, I have 16gb on my machine, and it struggles after several instances. I have zero problems with Ark 1.
> 
> I dont have V8P access, but I know people that do. From what I understand, it was a major slap in the face, because the two main libraries were basically released to the general public (Majestica and Lacrimosa). The only main difference is that they have an extra mic position and a couple of other bells and whistles. After spending 2K to get access to V8P, I believe they wanted an extra couple of grand for 8W. Pricing could have changed by now though. Regardless, 8dio screwed their V8P members over by releasing Majestica and Lacrimosa. "What happens in V8P, stays in V8P" was their slogan for it. I never would have bought Majestica in the first place had I known about their little shenanigans.


Wow! how upsetting - They must release some more exclusive incentive instruments that are complementary for V8P customers. Who knows - maybe they've since increased the v8p releases yet haven't advertised them to the public less.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 29, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> Wow! how upsetting - They must release some more exclusive incentive instruments that are complementary for V8P customers. Who knows - maybe they've since increased the v8p releases yet have advertised them to the public less.



I hope so! The V8P members definitely deserve those "exclusive" libraries.


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## robgb (Dec 29, 2016)

ctsai89 said:


> Any unwarranted extra mixing/EQing will likely mess up your mix if you don't know what you're doing.


The point is that you SHOULD know what you're doing, or at least work with someone who does.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 29, 2016)

robgb said:


> The point is that you SHOULD know what you're doing, or at least work with someone who does.



Most folks here probably know (and are sick to death of hearing) how much in agreement I am over this. Engineering ups your game to elite level imo. Don't laze out, there are TONS of great learning resources. Be great, learn how to mix your stuff.


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## ctsai89 (Dec 29, 2016)

robgb said:


> The point is that you SHOULD know what you're doing, or at least work with someone who does.



it's pretty easy to know what you're doing if you're only working with spitfire-only-orchestral products. But it's quite hard to know what you're doing even if you're a pro when you've got 3 different products from 3 different library makers to mix together, let alone their CC's are different plus all have different playability and sensitivity of dynamics. Majestica however, the bass of even the basses of the strings and the lowest notes on brass/woodwinds and the grand casa drums are Low Cut literally everything below 100hz. You not only have to know what you're doing, you'd better have good monitors that lets you hear everything below 60 hz or else you gonna take your track to a real studio and find out you're missing the low end (or if you boosted it up you'll find out it's too much)


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## ctsai89 (Dec 29, 2016)

robgb said:


> The point is that you SHOULD know what you're doing, or at least work with someone who does.



you don't need to know what you're doing in terms of mix engineering, you would only need a brain to know what ppp and fff and how much cc#1 to achieve either and everything in between for spitfire products. You can of course enhance it by volume mixing but i wouldn't recommend adding or subtracting anymore than 4 dbs relative to each other unless you really want someone else to believe that it was a "midi mockup".


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## robgb (Dec 29, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> Most folks here probably know (and are sick to death of hearing) how much in agreement I am over this. Engineering ups your game to elite level imo. Don't laze out, there are TONS of great learning resources. Be great, learn how to mix your stuff.


 Whether or not they're sick of it, it needs be said. If you spend hours composing a piece, why wouldn't you also want to take the time to present it in its best light? Great music is a combination of a number of factors, all of which are crucial to the final product. A proper mix is a crucial component.


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## robgb (Dec 29, 2016)

ctsai89 said:


> you don't need to know what you're doing in terms of mix engineering, you would only need a brain to know what ppp and fff and how much cc#1 to achieve either and everything in between for spitfire products. You can of course enhance it by volume mixing but i wouldn't recommend adding or subtracting anymore than 4 dbs relative to each other unless you really want someone else to believe that it was a "midi mockup".


 With all due respect, this is a sadly naive statement.


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## ctsai89 (Dec 29, 2016)

robgb said:


> With all due respect, this is a sadly naive statement.





^ perfect example of why he shouldn't have mixed with automation. Besides the fact that he used orchestral brass (not orchestral tools), Berlin woodwinds and Berlin strings is already mixed well with eachother but he had to up the volume whenever woodwinds had its runs/melody, just made it sound very unrealistic. He also panned the strings a bit. Would you say it would've been better off if he just mocked it up straight out of the box (for woodwinds and strings at least because that was before berlin brass was released).?

edit: my point was that, more often times or not, mixing somethign that's supposedly already been mixed, will go wrong more often than it would sound better, EVEN if you think you knew what you were doing.


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## robgb (Dec 29, 2016)

ctsai89 said:


> ^ perfect example of why he shouldn't have mixed with automation.


So you're basing your thesis on one person's mix? Oooookay. Look, just because one guy may not have figured out how to mix orchestral mockups doesn't mean a) he shouldn't try (we learn by trying); or b) that everyone else should simply rely on the samples and call it a day.

Mixing is an essential component of recorded music. It doesn't matter if you're mixing live instruments or fake, or you're mixing pop, country, R&B or orchestral, understanding how to mix audio is a vital part of the finished results. When it's done wrong, yeah, it can sound bad. But based on what you've said above, I'd respectfully suggest that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Do you think a live orchestral piece—recorded in the same space—isn't carefully mixed before it's released? There are guys who make a lot of money by specializing in orchestral mixing.

Someone who KNOWS how to mix, who takes the time to learn about EQ and compression and how to use them to create space and separation and color, and how to work with reverb and delay and a hundred other decisions that go into a good mix, will be someone who knows how to take samples from any library and make them work together, or will find samples that DO work together. That's what an education in audio engineering will get you.

Sure, you can be lazy and say, "I don't need to mix because Spitfire does it for me," but if you don't care enough to learn every facet of your craft—whether you do the actual mixing yourself or hand it off to someone else—then one has to wonder how much care you put into the music itself.


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## Vastman (Dec 29, 2016)

mikefox789 said:


> I can't recommend Majestica at all. I borderline hate that library. Ark 1 would be a much better choice!
> 
> If you want an Ensemble library, I recommend getting the other Albions, or Orchestral Essentials 1 and 2. You can get the OE bundle for about $450 from JRR Shop after you add them to your cart. Nothing will beat that for the price, IMHO.


All good points... I have OE 1&2 and they are full of goodies....

Be sure to google the reviews... Guy has done 5 on OE 1/2...
He's also done one on Ark 1

I would suggest you go thru the original HUGE ARK1 Thread... You'll see loads of stuff and yes, it can do HUGE


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## ctsai89 (Dec 29, 2016)

robgb said:


> So you're basing your thesis on one person's mix? Oooookay. Look, just because one guy may not have figured out how to mix orchestral mockups doesn't mean a) he shouldn't try (we learn by trying); or b) that everyone else should simply rely on the samples and call it a day.
> 
> Mixing is an essential component of recorded music. It doesn't matter if you're mixing live instruments or fake, or you're mixing pop, country, R&B or orchestral, understanding how to mix audio is a vital part of the finished results. When it's done wrong, yeah, it can sound bad. But based on what you've said above, I'd respectfully suggest that you have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> ...



I think you're making this argument a big deal. 

i hope you're not assuming that i don't want mix or don't know how to mix. I'm not even saying anyone should be lazy and not mix or what not. Believe me or not,i think having a proper mix is too important, i probably do think it's more important than you think it is, thus it's why i'd suggest not mixing if your template contains only spitfire products. Most of the time their products don't require mixing at all, they do screw up sometimes making the violins sound softer than viola and etc but then they updated the SSS right after it came out to fix that. If you were to EQ it sure you can if you want, just to enhance it.

This isn't even about myself and you don't need to tell me how important it is, but i'm a trance-head I understand the importance of a well engineered track. 

sounds awfully a lot like you're speaking for yourself because you're probably an audio engineer or you have a degree in that so you're emphasizing it to no end. 

Majestica needs a lot of EQ and volume adjustments, even if you just use it alone without any other products in a template.


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## Vastman (Dec 29, 2016)

Boy this thread has gone off topic...I'll just say that I have most high end mixing./mastering tools {all ff, ik, isotope and many more} but it'll be years before I'm satisfied... Same with orchestrating tools. It is a process... A learning process and each gets to different places at different times. 

Foremost I'm a songwriter... Very happy with this part of my being... The rest is practice and having the time to hone skills... Lots of egos flying around here... Not what the OP asked about


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## ctsai89 (Dec 29, 2016)

Vastman said:


> Boy this thread has gone off topic...



well i hope i helped you confirm that majestica is a no bueno. The ensemble does kind of sound cool sometimes though, not going to lie.


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## robgb (Dec 29, 2016)

ctsai89 said:


> sounds awfully a lot like you're speaking for yourself because you're probably an audio engineer or you have a degree in that so you're emphasizing it to no end.


Funny, because it sounds to me as if you're not much interested in mixing and don't want to be bothered with it.

For the record, I'm not a mixing engineer (at least not beyond mixing my own stuff, a skill that I'm sorely lacking in and still trying to learn), and I don't have any kind of music degree. But I do understand the vital role that mixing plays in any kind of music.

And if I'm making a big deal of it, it's because it IS a big deal.


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## Vastman (Dec 29, 2016)

ctsai89 said:


> well i hope i helped you confirm that majestica is a no bueno. The ensemble does kind of sound cool sometimes though, not going to lie.


I bypassed on it immediately... Sounded crass to me. No comparison to the beauty of the Ark (luv um both...)


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## Vastman (Dec 29, 2016)

And the topic was... Oe1/2, Ark 1/2 are great! 

Give it a rest people... It's embarrassing


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## ctsai89 (Dec 29, 2016)

robgb said:


> Funny, because it sounds to me as if you're not much interested in mixing and don't want to be bothered with it.
> 
> For the record, I'm not a mixing engineer (at least not beyond mixing my own stuff, a skill that I'm sorely lacking in and still trying to learn), and I don't have any kind of music degree. But I do understand the vital role that mixing plays in any kind of music.
> 
> And if I'm making a big deal of it, it's because it IS a big deal.



and i already confirmed that it is a big deal and that i suspect that i think having a properly mixed track is more important than you think it is. 

thus is why i keep emphasizing that Majestica isn't good because it's not cool that Majestica has its bass notes cut out at around 100hz. 

So assuming that even pre-mixed-engineered libraries (like spitfire) would still need mixing/EQ to be done, I would still choose it over, lets say, Majestica. Because the adjustments taht i would be making from a spitfire template out of the box wouldn't be as dramatic as what i would be doing for Majestica. This is all to avoid having the risk of completely messing up your mix (and then you'd be spending hours to adjust everything else to it) just because you had to make huge adjustments in other sections of the track, etc.


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## Vastman (Dec 29, 2016)

Majestica... Ok... I'm not an orchestrator but own dozens of libraries and have spent countless hours listening to them all... In a word, I think it sucks. After listening to everything about it my ears just said, really? I'm out


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## Andrew_m (Dec 29, 2016)

So.... I think I'm going to go for Ark 1 to accompany my Albion one library - my only fear in this being that I already have albion one, Anthology strings, and agitato for strings - I don't know how useful a 3rd string section would be.


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## Andrew_m (Dec 29, 2016)

Vastman said:


> I bypassed on it immediately... Sounded crass to me. No comparison to the beauty of the Ark (luv um both...)


So Ark 1 should be my go to? I have two 25% discounts on Albion II and III and wondered if sticking within the same company could be beneficial for themeing.


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## Vastman (Dec 30, 2016)

Gosh Andrew... Only you can answer that! I have All the Albions but personally am gravitating to OT these days... Love both Arks! But equally I dislike spitfire GUI and love the power of OT 's Capsule GUI

Of the Albions I love iceni the most but that's cause of the thrust of my songwriting. 

Too bad u missed out on the ark1 sale... Then I'd say yea! But hopefully they'll do it again next year.. Give ARK 2 a careful listen... A great way to give OT's capsule a try and its on sale too... Maybe 1 spit 1 OT? What about the OS 1/2 project Sam 450$deal at jrr? Lots of combos to think on 

Only you can hear what your spirit wants to play... And which library gets close! 

Good night all


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## markleake (Dec 30, 2016)

The Spitfire GUIs are great, they are very usable... straight forward, not cluttered, easy to understand the articulations, only use up the space they need, etc... I think Vastman is just getting old and loosing his eyesight. 

The Albions all have a fairly specific use-case in mind. Albion II is focused on soft. Nothing beats that smaller string section still for a more delicate sound. It can't really do big sound, except for some of the percussion. Albion III is focused on low end instruments and covers a moderate to aggressive sound, which it does really well. Most of the Spitfire stuff will work well together with no effort, but that doesn't mean you can't get other libs to mix well with Spitfire also.


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## markleake (Dec 30, 2016)

Also... I'd suggest Albion V should be on your list.

It has a more airy sound due to what it is, so you have to be a bit careful and not have too many instruments from it layered together, but it sounds beautiful. If you want another ensemble library, then Albion V would arguably add more variation to what libraries you already have than Albion II or III.

You should also look at the ProjectSam ensemble libs. I don't have them myself, but I know many people like them, and they are good quality.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 30, 2016)

robgb said:


> Funny, because it sounds to me as if you're not much interested in mixing and don't want to be bothered with it.
> 
> For the record, I'm not a mixing engineer (at least not beyond mixing my own stuff, a skill that I'm sorely lacking in and still trying to learn), and I don't have any kind of music degree. But I do understand the vital role that mixing plays in any kind of music.
> 
> And if I'm making a big deal of it, it's because it IS a big deal.



It is. But you know, I learned that quite a large percentage of folks here are doing this as a hobby, which explains in part why they don't want to put the effort forth toward learning a tool that will make their music stand out. Most hobbyists (even the ones that won't admit they are) just want to be able to make instant music, and that's fine for them.

It's when I start reading about people who proclaim their seriousness in regard to making music and then get very defensive (see pretty much all the above negativity toward the art of engineering in this and other threads) that I start cracking up and waving my hand at my computer in a dismissive manner.

If you want your music to be all about you, you have to learn engineering. The more you want to be heard and remembered out of a business whose likelihood of financial success is about that of a prospective pro athlete, there are no shortcuts.

I make money from my music, and also know a lot of people making money in the business...there are few consistently and enduringly paid composers out there (and I'm including the vast majority of major film trailer composers) who don't have a firm understanding of the craft.

You want to be a financially successful composer? Learn engineering. You'll be so grateful to people that recommended that tool...just trust me, because I truly want to help.

But that's enough from me, it's a waste of time, and breaks up the pipe smoke for certain others. I mostly, honestly just want people to have fun with their music and lives. I'll try not to pay attention to or aggravate the people who want to live in a bubble. And that's the end for me at least. I won't bother anyone anymore on the engineering subject. So there!


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## markleake (Dec 30, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> It is. But you know, I learned that quite a large percentage of folks here are doing this as a hobby, which explains in part why they don't want to put the effort forth toward learning a tool that will make their music stand out. Most hobbyists (even the ones that won't admit they are) just want to be able to make instant music, and that's fine for them.
> 
> It's when I start reading about people who proclaim their seriousness in regard to making music and then get very defensive (see pretty much all the above negativity toward the art of engineering in this and other threads) that I start cracking up and waving my hand at my computer in a dismissive manner.
> 
> ...


I'm one of those damn hobby people, and I mention it routinely so that people don't think I'm good at this yet. 
I really do appreciate the advice people sometime give here on mixing and engineering. It is very useful.

For me I can tell a big difference between a track that has been well produced vs. one that wasn't, or had little effort put into that side of it. It's clear to me that people often underestimate the positive effect that more production/engineering can have. But I would also say many people who present their own original work here are actively looking to improve and are not dismissive of the need to.... so all is not lost!


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 30, 2016)

Oh I didn't mean to seem condescending to hobbyists at all, I want people to do what makes them happy! This world would be a whole lot better if there were more happy people imo.

I'm probably just being too uptight.


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## robgb (Dec 30, 2016)

Different libraries serve different purposes.


Parsifal666 said:


> It is. But you know, I learned that quite a large percentage of folks here are doing this as a hobby, which explains in part why they don't want to put the effort forth toward learning a tool that will make their music stand out. Most hobbyists (even the ones that won't admit they are) just want to be able to make instant music, and that's fine for them.t of people making money in the business...there are few consistently and enduringly paid composers out there (and I'm including the vast majority of major film trailer composers) who don't have a firm understanding of the craft.



I make my living as a novelist, but have been a musician all my life. I consider music to be a hobby at this point, but that doesn't keep me from wanting to present it in the best light I'm capable of. So, toward that goal, I have been devouring mixing tutorials and forums, all of which are available online. I can see a lack of interest if you're simply sitting down at your piano or with your guitar and writing and playing a few tunes. But if you've spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on orchestral libraries and your goal is to one day be a professional, then BE a professional and learn every aspect of audio that you can.

I suspect that Hans Zimmer and Harry Gregson-Williams know quite a bit about EQ and Compression and the art of mixing.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 30, 2016)

robgb said:


> Different libraries serve different purposes.
> 
> 
> I make my living as a novelist, but have been a musician all my life. I consider music to be a hobby at this point, but that doesn't keep me from wanting to present it in the best light I'm capable of. So, toward that goal, I have been devouring mixing tutorials and forums, all of which are available online. I can see a lack of interest if you're simply sitting down at your piano or with your guitar and writing and playing a few tunes. But if you've spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on orchestral libraries and your goal is to one day be a professional, then BE a professional and learn every aspect of audio that you can.
> ...



I read that Mr. Zimmer often has just as much fun finding the "perfect kick sound" as composing . Once you learn the art, things can indeed get really fun. I know I've had a ball messing about with delay (Valhalla Uber Mod=YAY!), flange, and all kinds of other effects. It's not the pedantic, Fux Counterpoint brain drain many might think.

Oh no, I'm doing it again! Shutting up.


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## robgb (Dec 30, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> So Ark 1 should be my go to? I have two 25% discounts on Albion II and III and wondered if sticking within the same company could be beneficial for themeing.


While I drool over sample libraries as much as the next guy, there came a point when I had to ask myself, is this something I really need to spend money on? I mentioned my desires toward Anthology, yet I've resisted that desire because, honestly, I have at least four string libraries and don't really need another one at this point. If I can't make beautiful music with the libraries I have, maybe I'm doing something wrong. And all the sample lust in the world is not going to help me.

Hell, I've heard some people make pretty amazing music using only Kirk Hunter or Garritan libraries and nothing else.

So, if I were you, I'd step back and ask myself WHY do I need this library? Especially if you already have several in your arsenal. Ark is not cheap. And maybe the money spent on it could be better spent elsewhere.

Sorry to be a buzzkill—believe me, I understand the temptation—but it's something to consider.


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## robgb (Dec 30, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> I read that Mr. Zimmer often has just as much fun finding the "perfect kick sound" as composing . Once you learn the art, things can indeed get really fun. I know I've had a ball messing about with delay (Valhalla Uber Mod=YAY!), flange, and all kinds of other effects. It's not the pedantic, Fux Counterpoint brain drain many might think.
> 
> Oh no, I'm doing it again! Shutting up.


It isn't just the fun (and it's a lot of fun), but the ability to find that harsh frequency in, say, the violins, and cut it out, or understanding when to roll off the low frequencies in the basses, that can make all the difference in quality of your recording.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 30, 2016)

robgb said:


> While I drool over sample libraries as much as the next guy, there came a point when I had to ask myself, is this something I really need to spend money on? I mentioned my desires toward Anthology, yet I've resisted that desire because, honestly, I have at least four string libraries and don't really need another one at this point. If I can't make beautiful music with the libraries I have, maybe I'm doing something wrong. And all the sample lust in the world is not going to help me.
> 
> Hell, I've heard some people make pretty amazing music using only Kirk Hunter or Garritan libraries and nothing else.



Except for one short solo violin part, my entire first album was orchestrated with GPO. And the genre fans it was written for couldn't tell the difference. They all assumed it was a real orchestra. Really.


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## rottoy (Dec 30, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> I read that Mr. Zimmer often has just as much fun finding the "perfect kick sound" as composing .


One could even say he's writing music just for "kicks".


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## robgb (Dec 30, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> Except for one short solo violin part, my entire first album was orchestrated with GPO. And the genre fans it was written for couldn't tell the difference. They all assumed it was a real orchestra. Really.


I suspect it wasn't only fans who couldn't tell the difference. Recently someone on V.I. did an impromptu blind test of solo violin libraries vs. the real thing, and many people here thought Sample Modeling's violin was the real thing. A skilled musician can not only "fool" the public, but other musicians as well.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 30, 2016)

robgb said:


> I suspect it wasn't only fans who couldn't tell the difference. Recently someone on V.I. did an impromptu blind test of solo violin libraries vs. the real thing, and many people here thought Sample Modeling's violin was the real thing. A skilled musician can not only "fool" the public, but other musicians as well.



I almost hate to mention this...but the fact that both me and my co-producer engineered that album had a lot to with how well and realistic the GPO sounded.

Okay, everyone hates me now lol!

And let's take a second, please, to consider the ramifications of literally mobs of people being fooled by GPO, a relatively inexpensive library. We spend thousands on a "reality" that doesn't exist in the sample world except relatively (though a strong case could be made for the advances in percussion library production).

I said the above, and yet I'll be reimaging that album with East West, Chris Hein WWs, 8dio low strings, and Albion. Why? Obviously I'm not concerned with "realism" (aka the impossible)...I just like the sound of those libraries. A lot.


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## robgb (Dec 30, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> I almost hate to mention this...but the fact that both me and my co-producer engineered that album had a lot to with how well and realistic the GPO sounded.
> 
> Okay, everyone hates me now lol!


Well, by skilled musicians I meant skilled in mixing as well... 

I, frankly, don't understand the "hate." Why would anyone hate hearing about something that can improve their craft? I soak in as much as humanly possible.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 30, 2016)

robgb said:


> Well, by skilled musicians I meant skilled in mixing as well...
> 
> I, frankly, don't understand the "hate." Why would anyone hate hearing about something that can improve their craft? I soak in as much as humanly possible.



There are people here who get a tad defensive about learning engineering. I think there's some kind of stigma involved...I might have mentioned above that I think some it has to do with hobbyists (or people who won't admit to themselves they're hobbyists) wanting everything all at once, not having to work too hard, and not giving a rodent's behind about personal expression. Consumer music making.







I can completely sympathize with folks that just like to show off to non-musicians and family how epic they can write/present samples, and don't want anything more.

I want to help the folks who really care about being good composers on their own, that's all. I care about new composers. It's not that I want them to all "be like me", I want them to be great. Anything I can do to help folks is very gratifying to me.

Anyhoo, enough of my longwindedness (AGAIN!).


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## Vastman (Dec 30, 2016)

markleake said:


> The Spitfire GUIs are great, they are very usable... straight forward, not cluttered, easy to understand the articulations, only use up the space they need, etc... I think Vastman is just getting old and loosing his eyesight.
> 
> The Albions all have a fairly specific use-case in mind. Albion II is focused on soft. Nothing beats that smaller string section still for a more delicate sound. It can't really do big sound, except for some of the percussion. Albion III is focused on low end instruments and covers a moderate to aggressive sound, which it does really well. Most of the Spitfire stuff will work well together with no effort, but that doesn't mean you can't get other libs to mix well with Spitfire also.




It's decimated me... Those aging eyeballs! Why I plan on a 40 in 4k screen... Then I'll b able to use one of my oldies to bring up spitfire's wonderful yet nearly invisible ostinatum generator! They do pack a lot into a small space! 

Still, I have been swayed into a "CAPSULE" of clarity these days... I think this would be the case even if I had "super balls" but alas mine are old 

Have an awesome new year folks... I'm off to wrap up gardening for the year and heading north with the rest of my studio... C U in the flip side!


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## robgb (Dec 30, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> I want to help the folks who really care about being good composers on their own, that's all. I care about new composers.


Exactly.


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## ctsai89 (Dec 30, 2016)

robgb said:


> It isn't just the fun (and it's a lot of fun), but the ability to find that harsh frequency in, say, the violins, and cut it out, or understanding when to roll off the low frequencies in the basses, that can make all the difference in quality of your recording.



thats' basically a very basic thing to do (yes i already do that with some spitfire patches but those are minor adjustments and you sure wouldn't notice much difference or notice any difference at all if i didn't do it on in a spitfire template). And that's not what im talking about when i said majestica needed EQ-ing. It is much more severe than just that.

whether they hate engineering or not, most peoeple would prefer to spend more time on the actual creating a composition rather than being creative by making one track sound louder than another when soul of the music hasn't even came to life.


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## robgb (Dec 30, 2016)

ctsai89 said:


> whether they hate engineering or not, most peoeple would prefer to spend more time on the actual creating a composition rather than being creative by making one track sound louder than another when soul of the music hasn't even came to life.


Well, of course. You compose, you record (or do both together if you're so inclined), THEN you mix. The mix is the last thing you do (or think about), after you've already put down all the tracks. Mixing occupies a different head space and, beyond doing a bit of it on the fly as you record, it really shouldn't interfere with the composing process at all.


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## ctsai89 (Dec 30, 2016)

robgb said:


> Well, of course. You compose, you record (or do both together if you're so inclined), THEN you mix. The mix is the last thing you do (or think about), after you've already put down all the tracks. Mixing occupies a different head space and, beyond doing a bit of it on the fly as you record, it really shouldn't interfere with the composing process at all.



i disagree. You can mix while you compose (especially if you're products that aren't made from the same company, what's wrong about that? lets say I have ark1 but i would like to add an electronic element to it, do i just pull up the sylenth1/zebra2 patch and just compose using it as it is without any volume adjustments right away? you have to mix right away to make it fit into your composition before the huge volume becomes a problem that's going kill any inspiration you had originally.


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## robgb (Dec 30, 2016)

ctsai89 said:


> i disagree. You can mix while you compose (especially if you're products that aren't made from the same company, what's wrong about that? lets say I have ark1 but i would like to add an electronic element to it, do i just pull up the sylenth1/zebra2 patch and just compose using it as it is without any volume adjustments right away? you have to mix right away to make it fit into your composition before the huge volume becomes a problem that's going kill any inspiration you had originally.


Hey, everyone has their own way of working. But I get the feeling that your idea of what mixing is, is far less complicated than my understanding of the process. It isn't just about adjusting volume—as you seem to suggest. This is why guys like Hans Zimmer work with Alan Myserson, who specializes in mixing orchestral work. It's all well and good to do a bit of mixing as you go, but unless you go back and do a full mix after the composing is done, your work will likely only be half-baked and won't reach its full potential.


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## robgb (Dec 30, 2016)

But, hey, in the end, it's only the final results that count. How you get there is your problem.


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## ctsai89 (Dec 30, 2016)

robgb said:


> Hey, everyone has their own way of working. But I get the feeling that your idea of what mixing is, is far less complicated than my understanding of the process. It isn't just about adjusting volume—as you seem to suggest. This is why guys like Hans Zimmer work with Alan Myserson, who specializes in mixing orchestral work. It's all well and good to do a bit of mixing as you go, but unless you go back and do a full mix after the composing is done, your work will likely only be half-baked and won't reach its full potential.



again you're inductively assuming based on my simplified statements (i should blame myself for not typing more than i should and make a longer post to clarify what i know and i don't know because you would only assume the worst case scenario of anyone's knowledge). Obviously anyone would know that engineering is more than just "mixing" but i mentioned other things before in my earlier posts that there were at least 3 things i.e. EQ compression, mixing (and don't just go ahead and assume now that i believe those are the only 3 things).

Look we're talking about music libraries here. My opinion: spitfire > majestica because it's engineered well. ALTHOUGH yes i agree with you, you can enhance spitfire, finalize it, make it more than presentable, shoot it into space or another galaxy. I just wouldn't pay more for Majestica vs albion one knowing that it wasn't engineered as well as spitfire products were and then have to do > 100% of time engineering it than i would've have for spitfire products.


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## Vastman (Dec 30, 2016)

Dear Rob and Parsifal... could you PLEASE take your incessant mixing discussion to another thread. This thread has to do with Andrew's question about an alternative/companion to Albion... You continue to blather on about mixing... lots of nasty/self indulgent rambling which would be totally appropriate in a thread YOU might want to start on mixing but it is really cluttering up this thread and has gotten unnecessarily nasty at times. NO ONE coming to this thread is interested and wtf is your deal? *Start YOUR OWN THREAD, Please!*

Don't mean to be harsh, but I mentioned this before and you've ignored it. You've continued to post ego laden pages on this off topic and it is not in the least relevant to the subject at hand...


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## Andrew_m (Dec 30, 2016)

robgb said:


> While I drool over sample libraries as much as the next guy, there came a point when I had to ask myself, is this something I really need to spend money on? I mentioned my desires toward Anthology, yet I've resisted that desire because, honestly, I have at least four string libraries and don't really need another one at this point. If I can't make beautiful music with the libraries I have, maybe I'm doing something wrong. And all the sample lust in the world is not going to help me.
> 
> Hell, I've heard some people make pretty amazing music using only Kirk Hunter or Garritan libraries and nothing else.
> 
> ...


You may be right - whenever I have the money to spend on something, I get the feeling if I'm not hasty with my purchasing decision, the money will just disappear  Taking a step back could be pretty helpful.


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## Andrew_m (Dec 30, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> But that's enough from me, it's a waste of time, and breaks up the pipe smoke for certain others. I mostly, honestly just want people to have fun with their music and lives. I'll try not to pay attention to or aggravate the people who want to live in a bubble.


You say you're done talking about it whilst simultaneously ridiculing those who you deem less proficient at mixing. No one is saying mixing and mastering is unimportant; I don't really understand how this furthers the thread. I've greatly appreciated the advice given to me in this thread so far, and when the time comes that I need help learning mixing and mastering - I'll be sure to post it in this forum


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## robgb (Dec 30, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> when the time comes that I need help learning mixing and mastering - I'll be sure to post it in this forum


Actually, there's a forum here that's actually dedicated to that... 
http://vi-control.net/community/forums/post-prod-mixing-discussion.64/


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## robgb (Dec 30, 2016)

Vastman said:


> Don't mean to be harsh, but I mentioned this before and you've ignored it. You've continued to post ego laden pages on this off topic and it is not in the least relevant to the subject at hand...


With all due respect, this often happens in threads. I've witnessed it multiple times myself. And you know what I do? I skim over the posts I'm not interested in. It's a very simple thing to do. The conversation started here, so this was the place to have it. I don't believe anyone was harmed by us straying off topic and the world is still turning. I don't mean to be harsh, but instead of going out of your way call us out on it, why not simply ignore us?


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 31, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> out of your way call us out on it, why not simply ignore us?





Andrew_m said:


> You say you're done talking about it whilst simultaneously ridiculing those who you deem less proficient at mixing. No one is saying mixing and mastering is unimportant; I don't really understand how this furthers the thread. I've greatly appreciated the advice given to me in this thread so far, and when the time comes that I need help learning mixing and mastering - I'll be sure to post it in this forum



I won't even qualify that stupidity with an answer. I'm not interested in your goofy axe to grind, the one you have with both with me and robgb. It's you who is extending the least helpful part of this thread, son. Grow up.

You're the newbie child who rebels against anyone who knows more about something than he does.

I honestly wish you best of luck in your endeavors, little buddy. In the meantime, I don't care. Run along.


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## jononotbono (Dec 31, 2016)

I do love using M Ark 1 and Albion One together. However, and I know you are asking for ensemble libraries, but I would consider buying Spitfire Chamber Strings. It will blend perfectly, you will have an incredibly versatile String library and although you won't get all the other Orchestral Families, it will be the start of a badass Orchestral Tool box. You can use the Albion Strings (limited but great sounding) for full symphonic touches and then SCS for detail. Unless you're rich and can afford everything, which inevitably makes people just buy stuff and never learn what they have, this all takes time to build and having a great String Library is essential in my opinion. The fact it will blend with Albion One and the sound of Air Lyndhurst is the winner here for me but remember, you can use any library by any dev and if you are not focussing on realism and in fact just focussing on creating, composing and Sound Design, anything goes and anything can be used together. Joe Public will never know. Just whether they feel emotion from the music which is always the most important thing. If it sounds good then it is good (subjective I know). And yes, mixing is incredibly important and yes, mixing on the fly is a perfectly and usually necessary thing to do when you have a 12 hr deadline and you don't have the luxury of time to send to a dedicated mix engineer and Mastering House but I'm not jumping into the mix conversation here as there is so much information and great advice elsewhere on VI Control.

Not to dissuade you from M Ark 1. It's absolutely amazing. Also (and on the other end of the library spectrum) I have just started using Albion V and that is incredible but remember, all these Ensemble libraries have a purpose (I usually love them more when I don't actually use them for their original purpose - (for example - anyone actually use Guitar Rig on Guitars? Only if you want it to sound like Dogs' Brown in my opinion) so when you want to start writing different types of music you soon realise the limits of each library. It's why the dirty gearslutz among us always keep adding more and more and more and... M Ark 2? I need it. Doh, I've just talked myself into another one. 

Of course, everything I have just written is what I would do/have done and thinking about it, could be absolutely useless to you as I have no real idea of what music you are writing.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 31, 2016)

HenryOkazaki said:


> Seems like it's very important to you that everyone knows you are a successful composer who is constantly getting paid to write music.
> 
> Can you share a single track with us? From that GPO album maybe, or any of your "commissioned" pieces. Didn't you "fool" a conductor using HWO? Let's hear that one. Actually, let's hear anything at all.
> 
> ...



I can't do that because I'm an impostor who doesn't know what the heck I'm talking about, son.

Isn't it obvious?


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 31, 2016)

HenryOkazaki said:


> Why don't you tell us why you really can't instead of trying to brush it off with sarcasm? You're not a paid composer dude, and I think everyone is fine with you acting like one as long as _you don't ridicule others_. That's all I'm saying.
> 
> Sorry to help derail this thread, back to lurking!



I completely agree and admit to not only not being a paid composer, but not a composer at all, plus not even owning a DAW. You did it, Gilligan, you found me out. I just come here to troll people.

It took you that long to figure that out, little buddy? Your future is assured on the island.


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## Andrew_m (Dec 31, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> I won't even qualify that stupidity with an answer. I'm not interested in your goofy axe to grind, the one you have with both with me and robgb. It's you who is extending the least helpful part of this thread, son. Grow up.
> 
> You're the newbie child who rebels against anyone who knows more about something than he does.
> 
> I honestly wish you best of luck in your endeavors, little buddy. In the meantime, I don't care. Run along.


Did you mean to quote me? I never said that first quote either - I don't know why it says "Andrew_M said"

Things seem to be getting mixed up.


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## Andrew_m (Dec 31, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> Not to dissuade you from M Ark 1. It's absolutely amazing. Also (and on the other end of the library spectrum) I have just started using Albion V and that is incredible but remember, all these Ensemble libraries have a purpose (I usually love them more when I don't actually use them for their original purpose - (for example - anyone actually use Guitar Rig on Guitars? Only if you want it to sound like Dogs' Brown in my opinion) so when you want to start writing different types of music you soon realise the limits of each library. It's why the dirty gearslutz among us always keep adding more and more and more and... M Ark 2? I need it. Doh, I've just talked myself into another one.


My only limitation with Albion are the fortissimo not being loud enough. I wanted Ark 1 to solve that issue - since albion doesn't have an epic ensemble library yet.


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## robgb (Dec 31, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> My only limitation with Albion are the fortissimo not being loud enough. I wanted Ark 1 to solve that issue - since albion doesn't have an epic ensemble library yet.


Hmmm. It's my understanding that Albion One IS an epic ensemble library. That is, after all, how Spitfire describes it on their website: "Everything you need to make epic modern music in ONE box." I didn't buy it for that myself, but I certainly see that potential there.

That said, Ark 1 is about as loud as you can get.


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## jononotbono (Dec 31, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> since albion doesn't have an epic ensemble library yet.



It's called Albion One


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## Andrew_m (Dec 31, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> It's called Albion One


An expansion that adds higher dynamics would be awesome! But I get you want you mean - it works most of the time


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## Andrew_m (Dec 31, 2016)

robgb said:


> Hmmm. It's my understanding that Albion One IS an epic ensemble library. That is, after all, how Spitfire describes it on their website: "Everything you need to make epic modern music in ONE box." I didn't buy it for that myself, but I certainly see that potential there.
> 
> That said, Ark 1 is about as loud as you can get.


Well when I began this thread, I was considering Majestica. When you compare Majestica to Albion one, my statement makes a lil more sense.


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## robgb (Dec 31, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> Well when I began this thread, I was considering Majestica. When you compare Majestica to Albion one, my statement makes a lil more sense.


I think it makes sense if you compare Ark 1, as well, which is probably not a library you'd want for subtleties. What I love about Albion One is that it can do both soft AND loud. And if you want to go even louder, Ark 1 certainly fits the bill.


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## Andrew_m (Dec 31, 2016)

robgb said:


> I think it makes sense if you compare Ark 1, as well, which is probably not a library you'd want for subtleties. What I love about Albion One is that it can do both soft AND loud. And if you want to go even louder, Ark 1 certainly fits the bill.


And Loegria if you want to go softer


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## lp59burst (Dec 31, 2016)

So, 5 pages into this topic... time for a status check... have we reached a consensus...?


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## Andrew_m (Dec 31, 2016)

lp59burst said:


> So, 5 pages into this topic... time for a status check... have we reached a consensus...?


Either I'll stick with the Albion range and find something within there to purchase (Loegria or tundra). Majestica is completely off the table and instead I may purchase metropolis ark 1 instead!


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## lp59burst (Dec 31, 2016)

Andrew_m said:


> Either I'll stick with the Albion range and find something within there to purchase (Loegria or tundra). Majestica is completely off the table and instead I may purchase metropolis ark 1 instead!


Great news, progress... and then there were two...


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## ctsai89 (Dec 31, 2016)

@Parsifal666 lol honestly im waiting to have you show us a track you made too. You've been claiming that east west is pretty good and all well rounded so why not upload a track that's also well engineered? shouldn't be too hard, you don't have to show your true identity either. And no one on this forum's gonna steal your work we're all composers with integrities here i suppose?


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 31, 2016)

Judging by how this thread is going I'd recommend Microsoft Office.

But seriously, I bought Metropolis Ark I during the Black Friday sales, and quite frankly it is bloody fantastic. That is, if you are doing the loud thing. 

There is also Albion Icini which I don't have but I understand is Spitfire's 'Epic' Albion - but I haven't partaken of that particular pleasure so I cannot tell you how good it is. (Probably pretty good indeed) i have two Albion (1 & One) and I really rate them

I still use Project SAM OE1 & OE2 all the time - I absolutely lurve them.

But if you want bigness - Ark I does it in spades.


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## Andrew_m (Dec 31, 2016)

mikeybabes said:


> Judging by how this thread is going I'd recommend Microsoft Office.


Lol this is my first thread in this forum. It's a good first impression. I'm all honesty I'm heading towards Ark 1 due to all of the praise its getting in this thread.


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## Kony (Dec 31, 2016)

I agree that Albion One isn't that "epic" really - not as big sounding as Ark 1 is, and I think you would have no regrets with Ark 1. Of course, this place is good to get advice (mixing talk and egos aside), but Daniel James also provides excellent sample library overviews on his YouTube channel (his overviews are informative and very entertaining as well). If you feel inclined to take a look, here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/user/dazexus/videos


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## jononotbono (Dec 31, 2016)

Epic. Such a funny word to describe music. It's rather vague.


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## Kony (Dec 31, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> Epic. Such a funny word to describe music. It's rather vague.


heroic or grand in scale or character


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## Kony (Dec 31, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> for example - anyone actually use Guitar Rig on Guitars? Only if you want it to sound like Dogs' Brown in my opinion


You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. But I have used Guitar Rig for real guitar played by me plugged into my DAW - go ahead and say it sounds like Dogs' Brown but I've recorded for Paul Weller, Noel Gallagher, Future Sound Of London, Groove Armada and they were all happy with the results. Admittedly, I only used GR when I couldn't get to a studio to record using hardware (amps and fx etc) and had to upload parts due to geographical distance. Often, limitations in technology can be overcome by mixing and performance.... Having said that, I think GR is good and serves its purpose well.


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## Kony (Dec 31, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> I won't even qualify that stupidity with an answer. I'm not interested in your goofy axe to grind, the one you have with both with me and robgb. It's you who is extending the least helpful part of this thread, son. Grow up.
> 
> You're the newbie child who rebels against anyone who knows more about something than he does.
> 
> I honestly wish you best of luck in your endeavors, little buddy. In the meantime, I don't care. Run along.



On far too many occasions, I've seen posters resort to personal attacks and I really wish forum moderators would do something about this. In the one quoted post above, you have called the OP stupid, goofy, a newbie child, a little buddy, and told him to run along. I find this kind of personal attack unwarranted and unnecessary when all the OP is doing is trying to stick to his original query. It would bear remembering that this is his thread, he asked for advice about sample libraries to match Albion One. You said you didn't care so why don't you "run along" instead of telling him to?



Parsifal666 said:


> You did it, Gilligan, you found me out. I just come here to troll people.
> 
> It took you that long to figure that out, little buddy?



Again with the personal attacks on another poster - you are trolling btw


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## jononotbono (Jan 1, 2017)

Kony said:


> You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. But I have used Guitar Rig for real guitar played by me plugged into my DAW - go ahead and say it sounds like Dogs' Brown but I've recorded for Paul Weller, Noel Gallagher, Future Sound Of London, Groove Armada and they were all happy with the results. Admittedly, I only used GR when I couldn't get to a studio to record using hardware (amps and fx etc) and had to upload parts due to geographical distance. Often, limitations in technology can be overcome by mixing and performance.... Having said that, I think GR is good and serves its purpose well.



Guitar Rig sounds nothing like the real thing. At all. It doesn't even react like a Guitar being plugged into an amp. At all. There are many different options for better results when all you can do is DI a Guitar signal but I'm not derailing this thread as it's about libraries to accompany a Albion One. I'm really happy you love Guitar Rig though. It's great finding things that work for your own ears.


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## Kony (Jan 1, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> It's great finding things that work for your own ears


Shame this doesn't work for yours.... If you must continue, feel free to PM me. Thanks


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## Andrew_m (Jan 1, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> Guitar Rig sounds nothing like the real thing. At all. It doesn't even react like a Guitar being plugged into an amp. At all. There are many different options for better results when all you can do is DI a Guitar signal but I'm not derailing this thread as it's about libraries to accompany a Albion One. I'm really happy you love Guitar Rig though. It's great finding things that work for your own ears.


I often use Guitar rig as a large effects module for leads and bass. I find it pretty useful at times.


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## jononotbono (Jan 1, 2017)

Kony said:


> Shame this doesn't work for yours.... If you must continue, feel free to PM me. Thanks



It's not a shame at all. It sounds horrible and no need for any further discussion via PM. Thanks though.




Andrew_m said:


> I often use Guitar rig as a large effects module for leads and bass. I find it pretty useful at times.



I often use Guitar rig but never with a Guitar. Real amplifiers tend to give the best results. Great how different people work though. Have you bought M Ark 1 yet?


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## Andrew_m (Jan 1, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> Have you bought M Ark 1 yet?


Very, very soon!!! Extremely excited and confident in the purchase thanks to this thread and everybody's help!


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## Kony (Jan 1, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> If I must continue?


Yeah, because you'd already stated your opinion about GR, then apparently felt the need to restate your opinion for some reason after I stated my opinion.... By the way, nobody ever said GR would be better than the real thing (amps and fx). You said GR's not good. I disagreed and gave examples of how I used it at what could be considered a high professional level in the UK rock/pop/electronica scene. You didn't need to restate your opinion after that as though this is some kind of contest - which is why I assumed you'd continue. I agree that real amps are always going to be better btw ... I have a lovely Fender Tweed for that. GR also has loads of fx, and a cursory search in these forums will show you how popular it is for both guitar work and sound design. Cheers!


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## jononotbono (Jan 1, 2017)

Kony said:


> Yeah, because you'd already stated your opinion about GR, then apparently felt the need to restate your opinion for some reason after I stated my opinion.... By the way, nobody ever said GR would be better than the real thing (amps and fx). You said GR's not good. I disagreed and gave examples of how I used it at what could be considered a high professional level in the UK rock/pop/electronica scene. You didn't need to restate your opinion after that as though this is some kind of contest - which is why I assumed you'd continue. I agree that real amps are always going to be better btw ... I have a lovely Fender Tweed for that. GR also has loads of fx, and a cursory search in these forums will show you how popular it is for both guitar work and sound design. Cheers!



I didn't come in this thread to continuously talk about Guitar Rig. Your relentlessness is making me continue. You just don't stop. There is a massive amount of negativity in this thread and I only restated my opinion because someone else spoke to me and would it not be rude to respond? You don't honestly think this whole conversation is about you do you? And "some kind of Contest"? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I know exactly what Guitar Rig's strengths and weaknesses are. Especially for Sound Design. Man, I came here to give advice on accompanying libraries for Albion One. And I did. Not really sure why anymore. Have a nice day! I certainly am. Happy New Year.

Jono


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## markleake (Jan 1, 2017)




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## Kony (Jan 1, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> I only restated my opinion because someone else spoke to me and would it not be rude to respond?


That's not correct. You quoted my first comment about GR and unnecessarily restated your earlier comment as though your word on GR is gospel (it isn't by the way).



jononotbono said:


> Your relentlessness is making me continue.


Not sure what you mean, I didn't ask for you to repeat your original post after my initial post. You made a blase negative comment about GR without backing it up, whereas I stated how I liked it. Really, the posts should have stopped there so not sure why you felt it necessary to repeat yourself quoting my opinion and how you felt I was wrong. After all, I did say it was an opinion. It's like saying I like apples while you don't. It wasn't necessary for you to come back and say apples are crap after you'd already said it ... and then you complain about me being relentless...? If I'd made an original post stating how I disliked a plug-in, and then someone else later quoted me and said how they liked it, I'd leave it at that as I'd already stated my position. Hence my comment about you acting like this is a contest. By the way, if you didn't want to talk about Guitar Rig, why did you bring it up? Please don't answer this, it's a rhetorical question and I'm done here.


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## jononotbono (Jan 1, 2017)

Relentless.


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## fritzmartinbass (Jan 1, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> I would consider buying Spitfire Chamber Strings.



Wonderful library. This would be my choice. It works with large ensemble and chamber pieces quite well.


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## Andrew_m (Jan 1, 2017)

fritzmartinbass said:


> Wonderful library. This would be my choice. It works with large ensemble and chamber pieces quite well.


This used to be their mural strings library correct? How's their legato patches? can you do individual instruments as you can with anthology (cellos, basses, ect)?


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## jononotbono (Jan 1, 2017)

fritzmartinbass said:


> Wonderful library. This would be my choice. It works with large ensemble and chamber pieces quite well.



Definitely man! Ensemble libraries are great, especially when you are in a pinch with a deadline for the morning but they are seriously limited. I've been wondering what my favourite purchase from 2016 has been and I think it has to be SCS. But I might change my mind because choosing between Albion V, CSS... I won't go there, is a bit too difficult.




Andrew_m said:


> This used to be their mural strings library correct? How's their legato patches? can you do individual instruments as you can with anthology (cellos, basses, ect)?



It used to be Sable. Mural is full symphonic which is now SSS (Spitfire Symphonic Strings). The Performance patches are incredible. Designed by Andy Blaney. Worth every single penny!


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 1, 2017)

I apologize for not being more forthright with who I am and what I do. I knew when I first came here that not doing so would lead both to a point of diminishing returns as well as having to leave earlier than those who are upfront. It's definitely not as though I'm famous or even particularly well known, really. I have a _*very*_ tiny following in what I do, and what I do ain't much, if anything, anyway.

I just wanted to be treated like everyone else, with no past accomplishments (and trust me, they are VERY NEGLIGIBLE accomplishments, friends) colouring the way people here saw me.

I learned some great stuff here, enjoyed the members (very much) and their music, but by far the greatest happiness for me was having people tell me I helped them. That made my heart sing...really. For that in particular I owe you all a great debt, one I couldn't possibly pay back.

I personally hope _everyone_ has a wonderful 2017, and that all your dreams come true.


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## Andrew_m (Jan 1, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> I apologize for not being more forthright with who I am and what I do. I knew when I first came here that not doing so would lead both to a point of diminishing returns as well as having to leave earlier than those who are upfront. It's definitely not as though I'm famous or even particularly well known, really. I have a _*very*_ tiny following in what I do, and what I do ain't much, if anything, anyway.
> 
> I just wanted to be treated like everyone else, with no past accomplishments (and trust me, they are VERY NEGLIGIBLE accomplishments, friends) colouring the way people here saw me.
> 
> ...


I haven't been on this forum long but what you said in general wasn't so outstanding. In fact I felt for the most part you were quite helpful and constructive. Although I don't see the need for such a niche community to have people calling each other a "newbie child" (Still not sure if that was directed towards me or someone else)

We're all in this together - in a lot of cases the anonymity helps keep people respectable towards each other, which I find quite nice!


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## lp59burst (Jan 1, 2017)

Can someone please remind me what the original topic was... 

I've gotten lost along the way and some birds ate all my breadcrumbs...


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## Andrew_m (Jan 1, 2017)

lp59burst said:


> Can someone please remind me what the original topic was...
> 
> I've gotten lost along the way and some birds ate all my breadcrumbs...


I was looking for a good library to accompany Albion one


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## lp59burst (Jan 1, 2017)

lp59burst said:


> Can someone please remind me what the original topic was...
> 
> I've gotten lost along the way and some birds ate all my breadcrumbs...
> 
> ...


Ok, great... I'm on the trail again... thanks...


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## robgb (Jan 1, 2017)

lp59burst said:


> Can someone please remind me what the original topic was...
> 
> I've gotten lost along the way and some birds ate all my breadcrumbs...


I believe the OP involved a question about solving a mathematical algorithm.


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## Andrew_m (Jan 1, 2017)

robgb said:


> I believe the OP involved a question about solving a mathematical algorithm.


Spot on


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## jononotbono (Feb 25, 2017)

So...

What did you buy in the end?


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## Andrew_m (Feb 25, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> So...
> 
> What did you buy in the end?


I chose Cinebrass LOL! Don't regret it though.


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## jononotbono (Feb 25, 2017)

Andrew_m said:


> I chose Cinebrass LOL! Don't regret it though.



Good choice. Haha! Look into Spitfire Chamber Strings.


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## Andrew_m (Feb 25, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> Good choice. Haha! Look into Spitfire Chamber Strings.


Oh yes, when I have the money I'm going to buy that so fast! Sounds incredible


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## ctsai89 (Feb 25, 2017)

i found that CH brass is a good library to accompany albion ONE. Since albion's brass aren't separated and for the "high brass" patches, the one's without the octaves, the trumpet only appear in the higher notes. And of course it is always important to have solo brass in template. I can usually live with ensemble strings especially when octave legato v1v2 patches are given


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## Andrew_m (Feb 25, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> i found that CH brass is a good library to accompany albion ONE. Since albion's brass aren't separated and for the "high brass" patches, the one's without the octaves, the trumpet only appear in the higher notes. And of course it is always important to have solo brass in template. I can usually live with ensemble strings especially when octave legato v1v2 patches are given


Well I have the Anthology strings from 8dio to help me with that  But I just loved the sound of the french brass in Cinematic strings and I think it's bombastic fanfare-sound really accompanies well with albion.


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## ctsai89 (Feb 26, 2017)

Andrew_m said:


> Well I have the Anthology strings from 8dio to help me with that  But I just loved the sound of the french brass in Cinematic strings and I think it's bombastic fanfare-sound really accompanies well with albion.



french brass in cinematic strings? lol


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## Michael Antrum (Feb 26, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> french brass in cinematic strings? lol



A 'French Brass' can also mean something else, at least in the East End. However, neither seem particularly germaine to the current discussion....


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## Andrew_m (Feb 26, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> french brass in cinematic strings? lol


Oops! that was a strange mistake, I meant cinebrass - have no clue why I said cinematic strings


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## ctsai89 (Feb 26, 2017)

Andrew_m said:


> Oops! that was a strange mistake, I meant cinebrass - have no clue why I said cinematic strings



yes cinebrass is great but i still find that the solo instruments phases quite a bit between velocity dynamics. Chris Hein brass does not do that, plus you can make it dry and i find it to be easier match to spitfire libraries with the right reverb. Cinebrass on the other hand does not quite match well with spitfire, since we're talkin about matching it to albion ONE here. But 8dio stuff does match well with cinebrass.


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## JTJohnson (Mar 4, 2017)

Out of interest, how are the CS brass working out with Albion? I hear good things about the brass


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