# NI's Action Strings is 50% off. Does anyone actually use it? Questions...



## Steve Steele (Jul 22, 2013)

I've thought about getting Action Strings as a time saver. I have a few questions for those of you that have it. 

1) Do you use it in any type of "serious" work on a somewhat regular basis? Or did you give up and set up LASS instead?

2) How do you like the sound? The tone on the demos sounded rather pedestrian, but it's hard to tell.. After Session Strings Pro (I know its a different deal), I'm hesitant of any NI strings. I need to check the specs but the section sounds small.

3) How well does it blend with LASS, CS2, Albion?

4) If you bought it alone at regular price do you regret it?

Thanks for taking the time.


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## bbunker (Jul 22, 2013)

Have you seen Daniel James's video overview on Action Strings? It's a fantastic overview, one of the best gear reviews I've ever seen. Not only does it show the library in action, but it functions as a tutorial for what valuable function AS plays in modern templates, how useful it can be for situations beyond the most obvious HZ modern scoring tropes, and makes a coherent, well-argued case for AS being not a gimmicky score-in-a-box but a valuable tool that does its job better than anything else that doesn't record phrases in situ.

Here's the link to it on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4LoB5ieUxY

I apologize in advance if this isn't helpful; I know that you were looking for owners of AS to give their recommendations, but this video in particular was SO informative to me that I can't help but proselytize on its behalf!

BB


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## Daniel James (Jul 22, 2013)

bbunker @ Mon Jul 22 said:


> I apologize in advance if this isn't helpful



hahaha +1 I guess xD

-DJ


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## RasmusFors (Jul 22, 2013)

I don't like it at all. The idea is great but there are some serious problems. First of they aren't that well recorded (you can always eq them to your taste but that dosen't change the fact that they're clumpsily recorded). The dynamics is pretty off to. Crescendos and diminuendos sounds like volume automation rather than real dynamic changes. Last but most important, you sometimes have to rewrite your lines to awoid phasing. There's quite alot of pitch stretching involved under the hood since the strings haven't been sampled chromaticly. That creates some very awkward problems, bypassable I think but for me it really destroys my workflow.


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## Steve Steele (Jul 22, 2013)

Yeah, I remember the DJ demo. I guess my main question for everyone is are people still using it often it as one of their important string tools, or did the honeymoon end early?

I never thought of it as a "score in a box". I feel like one could do some creative and unexpected work with Action Strings. So it wasn't a function question.

Was just a bit worried about the sound. Anytime I hear questionable string samples I think "Proteus!" (All below par string libs sound like that old wonderful emu hardware string box to me for some reason - I think I still have it). 

Thanks!


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## Steve Steele (Jul 22, 2013)

Daniel James @ Mon Jul 22 said:


> bbunker @ Mon Jul 22 said:
> 
> 
> > I apologize in advance if this isn't helpful
> ...



So do you still use it?


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## Daniel James (Jul 22, 2013)

nightwatch @ Mon Jul 22 said:


> Daniel James @ Mon Jul 22 said:
> 
> 
> > bbunker @ Mon Jul 22 said:
> ...



All the time. Any cue that has fast repeating spics layered in with LASS and/or Symphobia.

-DJ


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## rgames (Jul 22, 2013)

I never thought of AS as a tool for composers. Rather, I see it as a tool for loop-based producers who want that spicc sound in their tracks.

I imagine it would actually take more time to use AS than to write it yourself if you don't normally use loops.

rgames


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## germancomponist (Jul 22, 2013)

rgames @ Mon Jul 22 said:


> I never thought of AS as a tool for composers. Rather, I see it as a tool for loop-based producers who want that spicc sound in their tracks.
> 
> I imagine it would actually take more time to use AS than to write it yourself if you don't normally use loops.
> 
> rgames



+1

And I also do not like the sound of the recordings.... .


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## playz123 (Jul 22, 2013)

I seldom use it....for the same reasons mentioned by others. But at half price, for some, it might be worth considering. DJ's video should help you decide.


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## autopilot (Jul 22, 2013)

I use it often. 

It's a great and useful tool. 

Half price is close to no-brainer.


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## MA-Simon (Jul 22, 2013)

Edit: Ugh, sorry didn't notice the Kontakt 5 topic at all...



> Is it just me or is the Kontakt 4 -> 5 update option blocked off?
> I was hoping for a half price update option. :?
> 
> http://www.native-instruments.com/de/pr ... 5/pricing/


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## germancomponist (Jul 22, 2013)

autopilot @ Tue Jul 23 said:


> I use it often.



Interesting. Can you perhaps post an example?


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## Greg (Jul 22, 2013)

Tried it, never used it. Daniel makes a good argument for using it however I still think it sounds worse than lines with Adagio and LASS played via midi.


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## marcotronic (Jul 23, 2013)

I'm totally pissed off as I just bought it last week for the full price and totally regretted it after playing with it for an hour or so. I find the contents MUCH too less for this high price. A handful of phrases for 300 bucks. I have regrettet buying a lot of libs in the past but this one is really the one I regret most. And yesterday evening I read that it's 50% off now! I guess even for 50% less I would have regretted the buy. I am sure that I'll never use it - I'm much more flexible in LASS for what I usually do.

marco


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## Steve Steele (Jul 23, 2013)

marcotronic @ Tue Jul 23 said:


> I'm totally pissed off as I just bought it last week for the full price and totally regretted it after playing with it for an hour or so. I find the contents MUCH too less for this high price. A handful of phrases for 300 bucks. I have regrettet buying a lot of libs in the past but this one is really the one I regret most. And yesterday evening I read that it's 50% off now! I guess even for 50% less I would have regretted the buy. I am sure that I'll never use it - I'm much more flexible in LASS for what I usually do.
> 
> marco



Sorry to hear that Marco. I had the same experiance when I bought Session Strings Pro. I paid full price, was on sale soon after. I played it for about an hour and put it away, frustrated in the knowledge that I could have spent my $250 on so many other worthy libraries. With SSP I let myself get fooled by that pretty sequencer interface that I thought would be really useful and I also believed that its small size meant I could use it for chamber work. Wrong. It's way too ham-handed for anything like that.

If companies like NI have the ability to lock their files and the program itself with the Service Center then they should also be able to take a refund or an exchange on software for people that have proof of purchase.


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## kitekrazy (Jul 23, 2013)

nightwatch @ Tue Jul 23 said:


> marcotronic @ Tue Jul 23 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm totally pissed off as I just bought it last week for the full price and totally regretted it after playing with it for an hour or so. I find the contents MUCH too less for this high price. A handful of phrases for 300 bucks. I have regrettet buying a lot of libs in the past but this one is really the one I regret most. And yesterday evening I read that it's 50% off now! I guess even for 50% less I would have regretted the buy. I am sure that I'll never use it - I'm much more flexible in LASS for what I usually do.
> ...



or this ability to install it as a timed demo


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## Steve Steele (Jul 23, 2013)

rgames @ Mon Jul 22 said:


> I never thought of AS as a tool for composers. Rather, I see it as a tool for loop-based producers who want that spicc sound in their tracks.
> 
> I imagine it would actually take more time to use AS than to write it yourself if you don't normally use loops.
> 
> rgames



Yeah, true. But, I guess using it to improvize could be interesting. For example, loading up phrases, maybe with different time signatures (I think that's possible, anyone know?), switching between them within measures or over bar lines to get some interesting accidents. I know this can be done with LASS, but I guess it's a different element of chance.

Only two dynamic layers and the overuse of TM bothers me. It just makes it seem like a half hearted project. 

It's either AS, Damage or Evolve. I hope I don't regret this!


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## marcotronic (Jul 23, 2013)

Get Damage!


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## TSU (Jul 23, 2013)

Thinking to get AS for half-price too... but after some research about it changed my mind. I think they sound even more mechanical than a non-phrase libraries for many reasons. And the main is that they always play straight by grid. It is like drawing with mouse on grid. Lifeless. Just my opinion.


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## germancomponist (Jul 23, 2013)

Interesting: Now more and more people have the same opinion what I had when this lib came out. 

Huh.... .


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## IgnasiVelasco (Jul 23, 2013)

When I bought it I thought it would instantly make my string arrangements more efficient in terms of saving time.

After using it for some months, I don't really know what to say... I can build phrases faster, but not better.
Not to mention that since it's included in Komplete, now everyone's strings will sound the same... 

Without a doubt, I would never pay the full price (I did it and I regret it... actually I don't know what the hell I was thinking about...) 50% off might be interesting though, I think I would buy it for that price.

Edit: If you already have LASS, think about it.


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## Steve Steele (Jul 23, 2013)

IgnasiVelasco @ Tue Jul 23 said:


> When I bought it I thought it would instantly make my string arrangements more efficient in terms of saving time.
> 
> After using it for some months, I don't really know what to say... I can build phrases faster, but not better.
> Not to mention that since it's included in Komplete, now everyone's strings will sound the same...
> ...



Hey Ignasi - Not better, because of the sound limitations of the library (two dynamic layers, poor recording, not enough content, having to rely on Time Machine too much)? Or, was it a matter of control, not smooth enough to use? Or not enough phrases to match what you wanted to compose? It seems to need more content. Or I'll just get stuck having to compose to it. yuck.

Actually, I do have LASS, CS2 and Albion. I may get OSR soon too. So I've got some tools to help layer it with. I also use MIR and sometimes Slate VTM on libs that don't have good rooms or sound bland. MIR does n good job of adding life and warmth to boring libs. 

Do you think if I were to do some minor eq'ing, and applied some processing to AS, that it might help it out? You mentioned everyone having that same sound already, so it's an obvious library to point out. Did you ever try to do some processing to it to give it a different sound?

Thanks


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## TSU (Jul 23, 2013)

nightwatch @ 7.24.2013 said:


> Actually, I do have LASS, CS2 and Albion.



I am sure you don't need an AS. Don't have it as I wrote already... but anyway I am sure


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## Daniel James (Jul 23, 2013)

germancomponist @ Tue Jul 23 said:


> Interesting: Now more and more people have the same opinion what I had when this lib came out.
> 
> Huh.... .



You must have converted them 

-DJ


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## Steve Steele (Jul 23, 2013)

Daniel James @ Tue Jul 23 said:


> germancomponist @ Tue Jul 23 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting: Now more and more people have the same opinion what I had when this lib came out.
> ...



DJ - Can you save me a few hours of trying to figure this out please?  Doesn't need to be a long response.

I know from your video that you manipulate the rhythm of the phrases. Great. That's all I'm wanting to do with AS mostly. But do you ever start a cue idea with AS by experimenting, and creating rhythmic phrases to come up with ideas you may not have thought of otherwise by, for example, keyswitching between two or three phrases on odd beats before the phrase ends, etc? Know what I mean? Sort of like you did in the video but maybe to a further extreme. If so is it enjoyable enough to work that way?

Can you mix phrases of different time signatures into the same page? I'd like to have a page with 4/4, 3/4, 5/4, phrases mixed, just to create polyrhythms and syncopations in real time. I can't find that info anywhere but it looked like in your video you almost added a 3/4 phrase into a page of 4/4 phrase. I think I saw a screenshot of a page with all 4/4 phrases and one 6/8 phrase. So I guess it's yes, but I just want to clarify. 

And lastly, is the lower tempo limitation of about 100bpm bother you if you want a lower tempo? I guess you just reach for LASS. 

I don't care about any of the moral arguments about this lib. I just want to know what it can and can't do. Basically I just want to compose and have fun with AS. I'll layer LASS and CS2 when the time comes.

Thank you very much DJ


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## Daniel James (Jul 24, 2013)

nightwatch @ Tue Jul 23 said:


> Daniel James @ Tue Jul 23 said:
> 
> 
> > germancomponist @ Tue Jul 23 said:
> ...



Hey,

Yes you can layer the different time sig parts together. You can have up to 10 key switchable rhythms per patch. Once you get down lower than 100BPM yeah its normally a good idea to switch over to something else.

And yes many times I have started a cue by playing around with the different rhythms on keyswitch. At the end of the day its all about what you want from it. If you want some fast spics for action cues, this does it perfectly. Its very marmite tho, you either love it or hate it. Ultimatly don't let peoples opinion decide for you, being in the minority doesnt mean you are wrong to like it 

-DJ


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## Martin K (Jul 24, 2013)

Hi Nightwatch!

I upgraded my Komplete to v9 Ultimate a few weeks ago and find Action Strings very nice. So far I really like it and use it  It's a great tool IMHO. 

best,
Martin


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## Marius Masalar (Jul 24, 2013)

For what it's worth, this cue makes pretty extensive use of Action Strings in what I imagine to be their intended context. I think they do a great job and am very happy with the result. 

[flash width=750 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F89988474&secret_url=false&theme_color=c8d1de&color=0066ff&comments_color=0066ff[/flash]

Is it a necessary addition to the arsenal? Nope. Is it a cool convenience and another layering option? Yup. Is that worth money to you at 50% off? Depends on your workflow, priorities, and sonic preferences.


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## wlotz (Jul 24, 2013)

I bought it 3 days ago. Overall it's pretty cool but I use quite a lot of LASS 2 and their A.R.T script for fast spic articulations and although it hasn't been recorded as sequences still sounds pretty amazing comparing to NI product. I don't regret spending my money on AS but am definitely going to use it mainly as layering option.

W


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## Steve Steele (Jul 24, 2013)

Daniel James @ Wed Jul 24 said:


> nightwatch @ Tue Jul 23 said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel James @ Tue Jul 23 said:
> ...



Thanks for the details DJ. I'll use it, process it and layer it like anyone else, but I'm mainly interested in creating or "jamming" with it. I'm also interested in trying things at low dynamics. So you told me exactly what I needed to know. Perfect. 

btw everyone (I just had to renew it so I was thinking about this), I own the domain name schenkeriananalysis.com. At some point I plan on doing something nice with it. I've spoken with a couple of prominent "schenkerianians", and I'd like the site to be an article and forum based site - lots of interaction. Maybe when that time comes, some of you guys will be interested. I was fortunate enough to study Schenkerian analysis with Dr. Kevin Korsyn in college, and although I don't do too many complete reductions these days (in my head though!), it did have a profound impact on the way I approach writing.


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## Steve Steele (Jul 24, 2013)

Mathazzar @ Wed Jul 24 said:


> For what it's worth, this cue makes pretty extensive use of Action Strings in what I imagine to be their intended context. I think they do a great job and am very happy with the result.
> 
> [flash width=750 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F89988474&secret_url=false&theme_color=c8d1de&color=0066ff&comments_color=0066ff[/flash]
> 
> Is it a necessary addition to the arsenal? Nope. Is it a cool convenience and another layering option? Yup. Is that worth money to you at 50% off? Depends on your workflow, priorities, and sonic preferences.



Thanks for the example Marius. Good call on the fade in at 8 seconds. Is that AS alone? Any layering? At the climax at 1:22 is that just AS doing the spicattos for both the low and high parts? The high part sounds a bit brighter. But I can't tell if that's one wide voicing or two parts. I'm listening through iPod phones at the moment so it's hard to tell.


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## j_kranz (Jul 24, 2013)

I've found it useful for sketching things out quickly (as well as Symphobia)... then I'll typically flesh it out with other libraries later, sometimes leaving it in and sometimes not. If you've already got a decent all purpose strings library then this I'd think will still be useful. YMMV


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## Marius Masalar (Jul 25, 2013)

nightwatch @ Wed Jul 24 said:


> Mathazzar @ Wed Jul 24 said:
> 
> 
> > For what it's worth, this cue makes pretty extensive use of Action Strings in what I imagine to be their intended context. I think they do a great job and am very happy with the result.
> ...


Hi! 

In this particular cue, all spiccato rhythms are AS alone if I remember correctly, so the ending is just a wide voicing.


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## korgscrew (Jul 26, 2013)

I think its a great addition! If mixed right, with a nice verb can add some serious movment to a track. 

See what you think to my attempt 

https://soundcloud.com/fracturedmedia/times-a-tickin


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