# Once Great, Now Unavailable Libraries?



## Lionel Schmitt (Jun 16, 2019)

What are libraries that are now no longer available from the developers and most other places?

I'd list the "Gofriller Cello" by Garritan, SONiVOX Sonic Implants (although still physically available from some shops) and TASCAM/Nemesys Gigastudio Piano (of which I got one of the last copies on DVD).

There are certainly many more that are maybe not up to todays standards technically but still have interesting and inspiring qualities making their disappearance a loss to out sonic palettes...

Which come to your mind?


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## RogiervG (Jun 16, 2019)

garritan stradivarius violin (same tech as with gofriller).


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## MartinH. (Jun 16, 2019)

9 Volt Audio - Taiko


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## Akarin (Jun 16, 2019)

Decimator Drums.


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## Batrawi (Jun 16, 2019)

DarkestShadow said:


> I'd list the "Gofriller Cello" by Garritan,


I could be totally wrong, but for some reason (probably wandering through various forums long time ago) I understand that the Gofriller Cello has been revived (with super powers) as the SWAM Cello? They both do sound very similar to me anyways


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## Lionel Schmitt (Jun 16, 2019)

Batrawi said:


> I could be totally wrong, but for some reason (probably wandering through various forums long time ago) I understand that the Gofriller Cello has been revived (with super powers) as the SWAM Cello? They both do sound very similar to me anyways


Oh that's interesting... it's possible since both Gorfiller and SWAM are the Audio/Sample Modeling guys.


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## charlieclouser (Jun 16, 2019)

"Tsaiko" - an ancient taiko library that has a great, murky sound reminiscent of Clinton Shorter's score for "District 9". I still use those samples from time to time.


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## re-peat (Jun 16, 2019)

*Bardstown Audio* used to have a few pretty good libraries (piano, jazz bass, accordeons). According to the Bardstown website, they're now distributed by Big Fish Audio, but I can't find any trace of them there.

*Wizoo *— if I remember correctly, the company that sampled the original Halion Strings — had a couple of good-sounding libraries, mainly drums.

And talking about drums: the one library that answers best to the thread's title description is *Mixosaurus*. In my opinion, still the best sampled drums ever created and unlikely to be equalled any time soon as no current developer seems to see the point in going the amazing distance that Mixosaurus' developer went.

Another excellent drum library that's no longer available is *Sampleheadz' Peter Erskine Living Drums*. (Some of those samples have ended up, as I understand it, in some IK Multimedia product or other, but the library as a whole has definitely disappeared from availability.)

The very first *Miroslav Vitous String Ensembles* was quite good too, certainly for its day. (I have the EMU E6400 version, which I later translated for Logic's EXS.) And if used wisely, it still qualifies for a place in a mock-up made today, I find.

Which can also be said of *Denny Jaeger*'s string samples.

The reason I became a member of V.I. Control, 16 or so years ago, was to have it out, _en plein publique_, with *Donnie Christian* (who had sold me several libraries but never bothered to send them to me; this was in the days before downloads). Mixed with my extreme annoyance over Donnie's charlatan business practices however, there was always, and still is, a great admiration for his sampling work. Still use many of his woodwinds (despite being very incomplete libraries) frequently, I will never get rid of his percussion samples (many of which sound *exactly* as I want recorded percussion to sound, it's uncanny), and his 'Venus' harp compares favourably with much of what, harp-wise, has been released since as well.
Most of Donnie's percussion samples later found their way, in a cleaned up and remastered version, into Vir2 Elite Percussion, but I always preferred his original release.

And on the subject of wind instruments: *Westgate* is also still an often visited directory on my sample HD. Something about those samples — woodwinds and horns — that seems to fit my music in ways that few other libraries do.

_


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## Leslie Fuller (Jun 16, 2019)

One that comes to mind for me is quite recent, it being Spitfire’s original Solo Strings. Loved Caroline Dale’s Cello, and saw her many times in concert.


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## Gerbil (Jun 16, 2019)

Garritan Steinway. They never did release the final promised update. I re-loaded the library recently and it's still one of the best. Shame I can't find v1.4 though as the discs default back v1.


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## erikradbo (Jun 16, 2019)

Even when competing with other delicate libraries such as Tundra and Ark II I can't get enough of using Loegrias 1/2 section longs. It's retired since a couple of months.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Jun 16, 2019)

erikradbo said:


> Even when competing with other delicate libraries such as Tundra and Ark II I can't get enough of using Loegrias 1/2 section longs. It's retired since a couple of months.


I find there Spitfire retirements just rather bizarre and unfortunate...
I don't even know if it makes sense commercially since the library could still be sold in 20 years, especially when it's timeless well recorded textural stuff.


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## batonruse (Jun 16, 2019)

And on the subject of wind instruments: *Westgate* is also still an often visited directory on my sample HD. Something about those samples — woodwinds and horns — that seems to fit my music in ways that few other libraries do.

+1 for Westgate


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## styledelk (Jun 16, 2019)

Native Instruments' Spektral Delay. Feels like an era of music in the late 90s and early 2000s


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## chillbot (Jun 16, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> 9 Volt Audio - Taiko


This would be sad if not for Taiko Creator has the same sound but a hundred times better.


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## SoundChris (Jun 16, 2019)

Premier Sound Factory - Cembalo / Harpsichord. Thank god I purchased it in the past... ^^


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## wcreed51 (Jun 16, 2019)

Westgate is still available...

http://www.westgatestudios.com/home.htm


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## labornvain (Jun 16, 2019)

re-peat said:


> *Bardstown Audio* used to have a few pretty good libraries (piano, jazz bass, accordeons). According to the Bardstown website, they're now distributed by Big Fish Audio, but I can't find any trace of them there.
> 
> *Wizoo *— if I remember correctly, the company that sampled the original Halion Strings — had a couple of good-sounding libraries, mainly drums.
> 
> ...


Westgate. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread. Beautifully recorded samples. And not just the wind and Brass, but the timpanis as well.

This is something that doesn't get mentioned too much around here. The recording quality of the samples. I mean the choice of microphones, mic preamps, etcetera. I've heard people comment over the years about the magic of the original East West symphonic orchestra Library without actually recognizing the fact that it was engineered really well. I wish I could remember the guys name.

I think the Westgate libraries are like that, just recorded really really well. I wish someone would take those samples, which are quite extensive, and reworked them into a modern scripted Library.

Another long-lost Library worthy of mention is the original Miroslav Vitous solo instruments Library for gigastudio.


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## Loïc D (Jun 16, 2019)

Original Albion 1


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## Lionel Schmitt (Jun 16, 2019)

labornvain said:


> Westgate. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread. Beautifully recorded samples. And not just the wind and Brass, but the timpanis as well.
> 
> This is something that doesn't get mentioned too much around here. The recording quality of the samples. I mean the choice of microphones, mic preamps, etcetera. I've heard people comment over the years about the magic of the original East West symphonic orchestra Library without actually recognizing the fact that it was engineered really well. I wish I could remember the guys name.
> 
> ...


The engineer of EWSO is Prof Keith O Johnson. Credited in the description.
I'm actually not a big fan of the EWSO sound. Very plasticy, with shrill hi-end and the strangest horns I ever heard.
Some of it I love, but mostly due to the performance (nice emotive vibrato on some of the strings) or character of the instrument (harp!).
Some of the other patches I love I mostly use in trailer music/electro-heavy scores interestingly haha. Despite Proj Johnson being a classical music engineer.
I find the sound extremely modern to an extent that I can only hear it in extremely modern productions.


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## dexterjettser (Jun 16, 2019)

+1 for decimator drums. Not that I don’t love Cerberus. Would love AI to at least make the sound design from decimator drums available again


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## Lilainjil (Jun 16, 2019)

Two already mentioned:
Wizoo Darbuka. Well recorded and programmed Arabic percussion loop library. Clever GUI. 

NI Spektral Delay. Peter Max and orange sunshine in a plug-in. Instant psychedelia


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## mouse (Jun 16, 2019)

dexterjettser said:


> +1 for decimator drums. Not that I don’t love Cerberus. Would love AI to at least make the sound design from decimator drums available again



Why was decimator drums ever removed in the first place? @audioimperia


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## robgb (Jun 16, 2019)

DarkestShadow said:


> SONiVOX Sonic Implants


Isn't the current Sonivox Orchestral Companion series basically their Sonic Implants offering in a different package?


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## robgb (Jun 16, 2019)

Batrawi said:


> I understand that the Gofriller Cello has been revived (with super powers) as the SWAM Cello?


I don't think so. The SWAM Cello is modeled. The Garritan Cello was sample-based.


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## David Cuny (Jun 16, 2019)

robgb said:


> I don't think so. The SWAM Cello is modeled. The Garritan Cello was sample-based.


That's my understanding as well. SWAM strings use digital waveguides to physically model string response - basically digital delays simulating impulses moving along the strings.


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## Niah2 (Jun 16, 2019)

Prime sound session strings, very old library. I think I remember that the official demos didn't convince me but these by @dcoscina changed my mind http://northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php/27602-Prime-Sounds-Session-Strings-Excellent!

I still use the sustains from time to time.


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## AllanH (Jun 16, 2019)

re-peat said:


> * [...]*
> 
> The very first *Miroslav Vitous String Ensembles* was quite good too, certainly for its day. (I have the EMU E6400 version, which I later translated for Logic's EXS.) And if used wisely, it still qualifies for a place in a mock-up made today, I find.
> [...]


Every so often I go back to IK's Miroslav I and II and attempt to make them more workable. The tone is generally excellent, but the programming especially at it relates to dynamics, is difficult to make work for me.

Q @re-peat : do you know if the original Miroslav Vitous String Ens. is the same or share recordings with Miroslav I from IK?


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## Ashermusic (Jun 16, 2019)

robgb said:


> Isn't the current Sonivox Orchestral Companion series basically their Sonic Implants offering in a different package?



No.


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## artomatic (Jun 16, 2019)

Peter Siedlaczek's Strings


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## Lionel Schmitt (Jun 16, 2019)

robgb said:


> Isn't the current Sonivox Orchestral Companion series basically their Sonic Implants offering in a different package?


Based on what I heard in some examples it's either extremely limited compared to Sonic Implants (sample wise) or it has nothing to do with it.


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## lux (Jun 16, 2019)

Niah2 said:


> Prime sound session strings, very old library. I think I remember that the official demos didn't convince me but these by @dcoscina changed my mind http://northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php/27602-Prime-Sounds-Session-Strings-Excellent!
> 
> I still use the sustains from time to time.



yeah, I used those for such a long time layered with Sonic Implants Sordinos.

Some of the freebies at the time were great as well, like the classic Gtown percussion samples, the original Project Sam free instruments and the fun R.A.W. Ethnic collection by Herman Witkam


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## Batrawi (Jun 16, 2019)

robgb said:


> The Garritan Cello was sample-based.



Well that must be impressive for a sample-based vsti then.


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## robgb (Jun 16, 2019)

Batrawi said:


> Well that must be impressive for a sample-based vsti then.



This sounds absolutely nothing like the SWAM Cello. But there are hybrid, sample-based instruments that use modeling for playability.

From Emusician.com:

"That's why I was eager to learn about the technology behind the Garritan Stradivari Solo Violin and Gofriller Solo Cello libraries. Though these libraries are based on samples of real instruments, advanced signal processing is used to give electronic musicians greater freedom of expression and to reproduce details of string performance that would be difficult or impossible to achieve using standard sample-playback techniques."


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## robgb (Jun 16, 2019)

DarkestShadow said:


> Based on what I heard in some examples it's either extremely limited compared to Sonic Implants (sample wise) or it has nothing to do with it.


Interesting. I heard they were one and the same, although with fewer articulations. When Guy Michelmore used them in a tutorial video he mentioned that they were very old but still sounded wonderful. But maybe I'm wrong.


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## Leslie Fuller (Jun 16, 2019)

Lilainjil said:


> Two already mentioned:
> Wizoo Darbuka. Well recorded and programmed Arabic percussion loop library. Clever GUI.
> 
> NI Spektral Delay. Peter Max and orange sunshine in a plug-in. Instant psychedelia



Yes, Wizoo! I still have Darbuka and Latigo stored away somewhere! 

I needed Latigo for a number of Latin Jazz and Afro-Cuban projects years ago, and it certainly got some use!


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## Mike Fox (Jun 16, 2019)

Truse Strike Tension was really cool. It was basically a consolidated version of TS2 where the samples were mangled, distorted, etc.


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## Zee (Jun 16, 2019)

The Wavelore Guitars


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## Hanu_H (Jun 16, 2019)

robgb said:


> Interesting. I heard they were one and the same, although with fewer articulations. When Guy Michelmore used them in a tutorial video he mentioned that they were very old but still sounded wonderful. But maybe I'm wrong.


Yeah, it's same samples but Sonivox version is more limited, no different dynamic layers in sustains, less articulations, etc. If they would start selling them for Kontakt once more with better scripting and simulated legato, it would make a really nice starter orchestra. The sound of the samples is still beautiful.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 16, 2019)

Larry Seyer's drums and acoustic bass.

Notre Dame de Budapest pipe organ (although I think that may be in Kontakt now).


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## Saxer (Jun 16, 2019)

Synful Orchestra - https://www.synful.com/SynfulOrchestra.htm

Still available but a dead product since ten years. The concept was really interesting, a bit like Noteperformer. The last update included a horn that is still today a great and very playable sound. I expected the rest of the orchestra to follow (as it was announced that way) but then the development was discontinued.


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## chocobitz825 (Jun 16, 2019)

DarkestShadow said:


> I find there Spitfire retirements just rather bizarre and unfortunate...
> I don't even know if it makes sense commercially since the library could still be sold in 20 years, especially when it's timeless well recorded textural stuff.



I think its ultimately bad for business. Maybe remastering and applying the samples to a more modern engine if possible is great, but you risk turning people off with outdated products. If an outdated product was the first one you bought from a developer, and their cost, it might end up being the last one you buy from them. I get this feeling constantly with EastWest. If not for their composer cloud, I doubt I'd ever buy another library from them because their engine is so outdated compared to everyone else's. Honestly it's very rarely that I pull from EW anymore and I'm always considering dropping my subscription. If old recordings can be salvaged, great. If not, then retirement of old libraries is the best way to maintain quality and innovation as a key point in one's brand.


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## StillLife (Jun 16, 2019)

Steinberg virtual guitarist, virtual bassist and original Groove Agent (2).
Broomstick Bass


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## chapbot (Jun 17, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> No.


Ashermusic - I read in an old post here that you used to love the Sonic Implants Strings (SISS). Do you still use them? What happened to that library?


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 17, 2019)

Albion Legacy. One is fine (more than that for a noob), but upon buying it I realized how little more I'd be using it than Legacy. Just a few extra, select patches.

Just me.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 17, 2019)

dexterjettser said:


> +1 for decimator drums. Not that I don’t love Cerberus. Would love AI to at least make the sound design from decimator drums available again



Wow, I didn't know anyone else besides me really used DD.


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## ionian (Jun 17, 2019)

From Gigasampler - Larry Seyer's Acoustic Bass. I still listen to some jazz stuff I did with it and in my opinion, there's still not a single Acoustic jazz bass VSTi or sample library that can touch it.

Lol I feel old...does anyone even remember that library? Geez...it's been ages since I used gigasampler.


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## rottoy (Jun 17, 2019)

ionian said:


> From Gigasampler - Larry Seyer's Acoustic Bass. I still listen to some jazz stuff I did with it and in my opinion, there's still not a single Acoustic jazz bass VSTi or sample library that can touch it.
> 
> Lol I feel old...does anyone even remember that library? Geez...it's been ages since I used gigasampler.


Speaking of the Larry Seyer bass, isn't it featured in this old TV ditty by the lovely Jeff Beal?


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## vienthousiast (Jun 17, 2019)

DarkestShadow said:


> The engineer of EWSO is Prof Keith O Johnson. Credited in the description.
> I'm actually not a big fan of the EWSO sound. Very plasticy, with shrill hi-end and the strangest horns I ever heard.
> Some of it I love, but mostly due to the performance (nice emotive vibrato on some of the strings) or character of the instrument (harp!).
> Some of the other patches I love I mostly use in trailer music/electro-heavy scores interestingly haha. Despite Proj Johnson being a classical music engineer.
> I find the sound extremely modern to an extent that I can only hear it in extremely modern productions.



I always looked for who did the recordings, as I find the samples sounding very natural.
Strange horns? I find some of the 6 horn patches like the stacc or also their crescendos excellent!

However, I still miss 9Volt Taikos and speaking of EW: the Kontakt patches... Using their player isn't that cool.


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## Saxer (Jun 17, 2019)

I'd love to get the Sonic Implant Strings for the EXS. Does someone owns it and wants to sell?


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## andreasOL (Jun 17, 2019)

labornvain said:


> Westgate. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread. Beautifully recorded samples. And not just the wind and Brass, but the timpanis as well.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



Just to mention it:

https://vi-control.net/community/th...tgate-modular-series-crossfade-patches.19760/


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## rollasoc (Jun 17, 2019)

StillLife said:


> Groove Agent (2).


Still have GA2 installed in an old version of Cubase. Great way of getting grooves up quick and easy and add fills.

I was so disappointed when I got GA4 and found it was totally different and didn't even have the kits from 2.

What I would like to see re-issued is Joe Barresi's Evil Drums for Superior Drummer. It seems to have dropped off the face of the world.


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## Vardaro (Jun 17, 2019)

Dan Dean solo strings.
I was about to buy them, but was a week or two too late..
Lovely viola and cello.


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## LHall (Jun 17, 2019)

Batrawi said:


> Well that must be impressive for a sample-based vsti then.



The Gofriller, like the Garritan Strad, were among the first of the phase alignment sample-based products on the market. Created primarily by Giorgio Tommasini, they are still among the most incredible instruments I've every used. I still have them as well as all the SWAM strings, which are purely modeled. While the SWAM instruments have more player customization features, I still almost always go back to my Gofriller when I really want something to sound like a cello. I can play it with lots of feeling in one pass without having to use dozens of inspiration-killing keyswitches. As much as I wanted the SWAM strings to be as good, they stop short for my ears.

Good news is that Giorgio, who is also the genius behind all the Sample Modeling Brass (stunning), is hard at work on new strings, using the sample-based/modeling approach. I can say for certain that these are going to be truly incredible instruments.


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## Wolf68 (Jun 17, 2019)

the full Garritan Orchestral Strings. If someone wants to sell for a reasonable Price, please let me know.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Jun 17, 2019)

chocobitz825 said:


> I think its ultimately bad for business. Maybe remastering and applying the samples to a more modern engine if possible is great, but you risk turning people off with outdated products. If an outdated product was the first one you bought from a developer, and their cost, it might end up being the last one you buy from them. I get this feeling constantly with EastWest. If not for their composer cloud, I doubt I'd ever buy another library from them because their engine is so outdated compared to everyone else's. Honestly it's very rarely that I pull from EW anymore and I'm always considering dropping my subscription. If old recordings can be salvaged, great. If not, then retirement of old libraries is the best way to maintain quality and innovation as a key point in one's brand.


I'd say a library should never be pulled no matter how outdated. There can still be some great stuff to use. EWSO is massively outdated but I would never want to miss some of the patches... 
I'd rather make a "legacy" section on the page than removing them. Then it's clear that these are older not up to modern standards libraries but some people will still be interested and they'll keep making some money. Excellent business. 
I also don't think some of these Spitfire libraries can be called outdated. Albion Original outdated? I've only heard demos and walkthroughs but what I heard I actually like more than what I heard from Albion One. I've also heard many who have both preferring the original.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 17, 2019)

DarkestShadow said:


> I'd say a library should never be pulled no matter how outdated. There can still be some great stuff to use. EWSO is massively outdated but I would never want to miss some of the patches...
> I'd rather make a "legacy" section on the page than removing them.



Totally! I’m still discovering some gems in the EW Anniversary collection.


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## Ryan99 (Jun 17, 2019)

Camel Audio Alchemy and the expansions on PC. Shame on you, Apple!


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## Ashermusic (Jun 17, 2019)

Ryan99 said:


> Camel Audio Alchemy and the expansions on PC. Shame on you, Apple!



Why blame Apple for buying rather than blaming Camel Audio for selling?


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## Ryan99 (Jun 17, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Why blame Apple for buying rather than blaming Camel Audio for selling?


Then, shame on both!


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## Ashermusic (Jun 17, 2019)

Ryan99 said:


> Then, shame on both!




Ok, that works


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## chillbot (Jun 17, 2019)

ionian said:


> From Gigasampler - Larry Seyer's Acoustic Bass. I still listen to some jazz stuff I did with it and in my opinion, there's still not a single Acoustic jazz bass VSTi or sample library that can touch it.
> 
> Lol I feel old...does anyone even remember that library? Geez...it's been ages since I used gigasampler


Still use it with G-Player.

Still use sonic implants as well, though albion one has since replaced the spiccatos for me (similar dry tone) still haven't found anything to replace the pizz after all these years.


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## Robo Rivard (Jun 17, 2019)

I'm still using Dausenkunz's Early Patches and Banchetto Musicale, as well as Northstar's Ancient World... Before Eduardo Tarilonte, we had very little choice.


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## Niah2 (Jun 17, 2019)

Sonic Implants are still great. Love the espressivo patches and the effects are really well thought out. You can really build something with them.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 17, 2019)

Ryan99 said:


> Camel Audio Alchemy and the expansions on PC. Shame on you, Apple!



We don't know the situation. Often, companies are sold when they need to be bought to survive. That's what happened with most of the major DAWs, for example.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 17, 2019)

Vardaro said:


> Dan Dean solo strings.
> I was about to buy them, but was a week or two too late..
> Lovely viola and cello.



The best thing about them is Dan's demo - the Fawlty Towers theme.


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## chocobitz825 (Jun 17, 2019)

DarkestShadow said:


> I'd say a library should never be pulled no matter how outdated. There can still be some great stuff to use. EWSO is massively outdated but I would never want to miss some of the patches...
> I'd rather make a "legacy" section on the page than removing them. Then it's clear that these are older not up to modern standards libraries but some people will still be interested and they'll keep making some money. Excellent business.
> I also don't think some of these Spitfire libraries can be called outdated. Albion Original outdated? I've only heard demos and walkthroughs but what I heard I actually like more than what I heard from Albion One. I've also heard many who have both preferring the original.




Does that make sense logistically? I get the feeling around always wanting to be able to access great libraries. This thread is no doubt proof that there were some great VIs I never knew about and missed out on..but still, does this make sense from a business perspective? 

Even if you created a separate legacy section on the website to keep these libraries available, then what? You can announce that you no longer support them, but that doesn't mean you don't get continued inquiries about bugs and problems that come up as the library gets older, but the platforms continue to change. At some point, that legacy library becomes a point of frustration for users and can impact the perceived quality of your brand. Maybe not devastating, but not really ideal. Then how do you price these legacy libraries? If they diminish in value, and fewer people buy them over time, does the revenue justify the work and resources for hosting and distributing it? Then how do you deal with royalties? Is it worth it to send out royalties from these libraries that don't generate much in revenue anymore? It just seems like more of a hassle than its worth. 

I would hope that if the idea is to maintain old libraries, they do so in a way that is already in practice. 8DIO updates the engines, cut some of the fat and rereleases them. As does Spitfire. Orchestral Tools just packaged the legacy woodwinds with the new one and sold them together. Any of these seem like fine compromises to me.


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## Guffy (Jun 17, 2019)

DarkestShadow said:


> TASCAM/Nemesys Gigastudio Piano (of which I got one of the last copies on DVD).



Funny how different tastes we can have.. 

I really like the brass in QLSO, even the horns! (Have you tried the power sustains?)

I'm not extremely fond of Nemesys gigapiano though. It sounds quite good tonewise but it's jumpy and uneven across the dynamics. It shows its age. I think theres plenty of piano samples on the market that sounds just as good if not better while being highly playable with more mixing options etc (that goes for QLSO as well but i still find quite a few of the patches useful to this day)


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## bigcat1969 (Jun 17, 2019)

If no one mentioned it Westgate winds seem to still be available
https://www.bigfishaudio.com/Westgate-Studios.html

In the distant past I seem to have made Kontakt instruments from the G Town church samples.
https://bigcatinstruments.blogspot.com/2016/01/g-town-church.html


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## David Cuny (Jun 17, 2019)

Wolf68 said:


> the full Garritan Orchestral Strings. If someone wants to sell for a reasonable Price, please let me know.


GPO 5 lists the addition of "Garritan Orchestral Strings", so it might be included in that package. I'm not sure it's the same thing, but you can check the feature page for a listing of what it consists of.

That said, when I tried using the GPO5 version of the GOS solo strings, I found a bunch of funky samples and bad loop points that make them unusable. I raised a ticket with MakeMusic three years ago, who acknowledged the problem and forwarded the ticket to a black hole.


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## Wolf68 (Jun 17, 2019)

David Cuny said:


> GPO 5 lists the addition of "Garritan Orchestral Strings", so it might be included in that package. I'm not sure it's the same thing, but you can check the feature page for a listing of what it consists of.
> 
> That said, when I tried using the GPO5 version of the GOS solo strings, I found a bunch of funky samples and bad loop points that make them unusable. I raised a ticket with MakeMusic three years ago, who acknowledged the problem and forwarded the ticket to a black hole.


yup it is said to include some content of the GOS, but not in the same depth.


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## Batrawi (Jun 17, 2019)

...and that crazy thing which probably wasn't even released, but always got me intrigued


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## alanb (Jun 17, 2019)

ionian said:


> From Gigasampler - Larry Seyer's Acoustic Bass. I still listen to some jazz stuff I did with it and in my opinion, there's still not a single Acoustic jazz bass VSTi or sample library that can touch it.
> 
> Lol I feel old...*does anyone even remember that library*? Geez...it's been ages since I used gigasampler.




I remember both it and LS' Acoustic Drums *extremely fondly*. They were two of my all-time favorite libraries.

The LS Acoustic Bass was one of the main libraries that I used for beta-testing GS4/GVI4 (RIP) — with it, I caught at least a couple of helpful things that were fixed before TASCAM deep-sixed everything... 

- - - - -

But that was then . . . and _now_ I have so many rock/jazz/metal pieces that I created using LS' Acoustic Drums, however-many years ago, and I would love to rework/revise them , but I've tried manually remapping the extremely complex MIDI parts to my current custom SD3 Drum Maps (in Cubendo) and that has been such a vast exercise in frustration that I've given up every time.

I have SoundLib's G-Player and Chicken System's Sampler Tools, and both provide potentially-viable options for working with the original .gig files (although I can't remember whether LSAD only uses .gsp files, or whether individual single-kit .gig files are accessible), but I'm probably going to just wait impatiently until I can replace my current A/V computer, at which time I'll repurpose the old one to be a permanent GS4 / GVI4 machine* . . .

. . . either I'll be able to cobble the two computers together using the old FX-MAX programs (which the devs graciously left available online when they shut their doors a million years ago), or maybe I can Frankenstein them together via some kind of bare-bones Dante setup, or . . . ? ? ?



* [ assuming, of course that their dedicated dongle hasn't failed from protracted non-use ]


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## alanb (Jun 17, 2019)

charlieclouser said:


> "Tsaiko" - an ancient taiko library that has a great, murky sound reminiscent of Clinton Shorter's score for "District 9". I still use those samples from time to time.



Hmmmmmmmmmm.

The company that made Tsaiko merged with Nine Volt Audio, ca. 2008.

I'm pretty sure that Tsaiko became Nine Volt Audio's "Beat Aesthetic: Taiko Edition," which I got a few years after that . . . and I wonder whether its identical to, or different from (in which case, how?), the original 'Tsaiko' library.

Does anyone know how the two products compare?

Is @Sean Beeson still floating around here? He'd probably know.................???


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 17, 2019)

Ryan99 said:


> Camel Audio Alchemy and the expansions on PC. Shame on you, Camel!



Misquoted for truth. I'm so happy I still have the original Alchemy and a bunch of soundsets to boot.


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 17, 2019)

Ryan99 said:


> Camel Audio Alchemy and the expansions on PC. Shame on you, Apple!


Not a library... but ditto for Emagic Logic on PC. Made me so mad back then. 

But I'm over it... sort of


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## charlieclouser (Jun 17, 2019)

alanb said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmm.
> 
> The company that made Tsaiko merged with Nine Volt Audio, ca. 2008.
> 
> ...



Oh, that's interesting - I did not know that. I believe I have Beat Aesthetic:Taiko, so I will load up both of them and see what's what. I remember that I made a cut-down version of Tsaiko with only the mic positions I liked, and converted it to EXS way back when, so maybe that's why I didn't notice any similarity right off the bat.


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## Farkle (Jun 17, 2019)

Sean Beeson was heavily involved in the production of the original Tsaiko, I believe they recorded it in his area (maybe one of the concert halls at his local uni)? 

I still use Tsaiko all the time. It's very naturally recorded, and has three mic positions. If you have the time to build some midi stacks, it's highly usable.

Mike


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## Farkle (Jun 17, 2019)

Oh, and BTW, Dan Dean Ensemble Brass and Sonic Implants Brass are my two go to brass libs in my current orch template. Honestly, as good (or better) than anything out there. If you're cool with reprogramming them. 

Only just now has Adventure Brass started making its' way into my template; and that's because it does have that vintage studio sound, and it's so damn FUN to play.

Mike


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## Geocranium (Jun 17, 2019)

Maybe they moved the samples into their newer library "Sharine," but to my knowledge, Wavesfactory doesn't sell their W-Shaker anymore, which is my favorite go-to little shaker. This was back when their libraries were all $10 each.

There are a whole lot of things on their deprecated page that it looks like they've scrapped: https://www.wavesfactory.com/product-category/deprecated/

Some of them were repurposed into better products they sell now, but a lot were simply trashed and aren't available anymore.

I also have their old marxophone and honkey-tonk piano.


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## mojamusic (Jun 17, 2019)

Remember NS Drums and congas? They were a deep sampled percussion that sounded amazing at the time. I remember the company seemed to fall on hard times and closed.


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## IFM (Jun 17, 2019)

Batrawi said:


> ...and that crazy thing which probably wasn't even released, but always got me intrigued



I remember this...and it was going to require several computers and was super expensive. It was at NAMM one year.


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## drumman (Jun 18, 2019)

Several mentions of Larry Seyer's acoustic bass. Wish I had bought it. Lots of character.

But wasn't it converted or sold as a Kontakt library at some time? I don't mean converted through Chicken Systems or something like that (or maybe that had something to do with it). I'm nearly certain I recall some Kontakt version of it. A Google search turned up some heading like "Larry Seyers Upright Acoustic Bass for Kontakt GIGA," but the link went to some unrelated site.

Anyone remember a Kontakt version of some sort after the original library was discontinued?
*

*


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## TomislavEP (Jun 18, 2019)

Without any doubt: Albion Legacy and Albion Loegria.

I've finally purchased Legacy at the very end of its life, paying the full price in GBP + VAT just before Spifire decided to put her to pasture only a few months later. I really didn't expect that move, though I can now understand their motives to some degree.

I still haven't upgraded to One mainly due to the described experience, but I also feel that Legacy is more suitable for my personal style and needs.

I'm perhaps even more surprised they've scraped Loegria as well. It is an unique library in many ways. I especially love its string and percussion sections but also many things from Stephenson Steam Band II. Anyway, Legacy, Loegria and Tundra will certainly remain the cornerstone of my orchestral collection.


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## Silence-is-Golden (Jun 18, 2019)

Denny Jeager’s strings are still available here :
https://www.quparts.com/Apple-Logic-EXS-Instruments-and-loops-s/54.htm

Including other formats


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## Lionel Schmitt (Jun 18, 2019)

chocobitz825 said:


> Does that make sense logistically? I get the feeling around always wanting to be able to access great libraries. This thread is no doubt proof that there were some great VIs I never knew about and missed out on..but still, does this make sense from a business perspective?
> 
> Even if you created a separate legacy section on the website to keep these libraries available, then what? You can announce that you no longer support them, but that doesn't mean you don't get continued inquiries about bugs and problems that come up as the library gets older, but the platforms continue to change. At some point, that legacy library becomes a point of frustration for users and can impact the perceived quality of your brand. Maybe not devastating, but not really ideal. Then how do you price these legacy libraries? If they diminish in value, and fewer people buy them over time, does the revenue justify the work and resources for hosting and distributing it? Then how do you deal with royalties? Is it worth it to send out royalties from these libraries that don't generate much in revenue anymore? It just seems like more of a hassle than its worth.
> 
> I would hope that if the idea is to maintain old libraries, they do so in a way that is already in practice. 8DIO updates the engines, cut some of the fat and rereleases them. As does Spitfire. Orchestral Tools just packaged the legacy woodwinds with the new one and sold them together. Any of these seem like fine compromises to me.


Fewer people will buy and prices will be less but it's still more profitable than pulling the library and making 0$. 
Not sure how much hosting costs there are, certainly depends on how clever you deal with that, but hard to imagine these costs will be more than the library revenues, unless you start to sell a 100GB library for 20$. Although, thinking about it that may actually lead to a lot of purchases haha. 
Royalties can be calculated based on what you're still making from them.
And, if you specify that there will be no support then you may still get some inquiries but those can be disregarded since it was specified previously. + Hopefully people can read and it won't be too many.


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## chocobitz825 (Jun 18, 2019)

DarkestShadow said:


> Fewer people will buy and prices will be less but it's still more profitable than pulling the library and making 0$.
> Not sure how much hosting costs there are, certainly depends on how clever you deal with that, but hard to imagine these costs will be more than the library revenues, unless you start to sell a 100GB library for 20$. Although, thinking about it that may actually lead to a lot of purchases haha.
> Royalties can be calculated based on what you're still making from them.
> And, if you specify that there will be no support then you may still get some inquiries but those can be disregarded since it was specified previously. + Hopefully people can read and it won't be too many.



fair points. in the matter of royalties, I don't mean paying out the fixed royalties, as much as i mean the cost associated with processing fees to various players, and keeping record of their payment info and making sure there are no mistakes in the processing. I mean, at some point its like those cases where you're printing royalties checks for the sum of 10 cents, and it costs you $2 to process and mail the whole thing.


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## kitekrazy (Jun 18, 2019)

Ryan99 said:


> Then, shame on both!



Alchemy still works on Windows. At least you weren't left out in the cold as far as authorization. I guess if I were a developer and were offered millions for my product I would take it.


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## Ryan99 (Jun 18, 2019)

kitekrazy said:


> Alchemy still works on Windows. At least you weren't left out in the cold as far as authorization. I guess if I were a developer and were offered millions for my product I would take it.


Yes, I can still use it, but no possibilities to get the awesome missing expansions and no more support.


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## kitekrazy (Jun 18, 2019)

Somic Implants had GVI bagpipes that were great.


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## charlieclouser (Jun 18, 2019)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> Denny Jeager’s strings are still available here :
> https://www.quparts.com/Apple-Logic-EXS-Instruments-and-loops-s/54.htm
> 
> Including other formats



I will sheepishly admit to buying the Quparts version of Jaeger strings for EXS - recently. Back in the eighties I was the co-pilot on some TV scores and we booked an afternoon in a Synclavier room to sweeten our cues which were done entirely on a Korg 01/w, Wavestation, S-950, and TX-802. When the operator loaded up the Denny Jaeger strings on the Synclav and I played a chord it was a religious experience that I don't think I've ever recovered from.


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## Silence-is-Golden (Jun 18, 2019)

charlieclouser said:


> I will sheepishly admit to buying the Quparts version of Jaeger strings for EXS - recently. Back in the eighties I was the co-pilot on some TV scores and we booked an afternoon in a Synclavier room to sweeten our cues which were done entirely on a Korg 01/w, Wavestation, S-950, and TX-802. When the operator loaded up the Denny Jaeger strings on the Synclav and I played a chord it was a religious experience that I don't think I've ever recovered from.


And how is it now, playing the denny jeager’s strings?
Still religious or was it one of those moments that we are allowed to experience in our lives from time to time, in which all seems to come together in a way that cannot be planned for?


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## charlieclouser (Jun 18, 2019)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> And how is it now, playing the denny jeager’s strings?
> Still religious or was it one of those moments that we are allowed to experience in our lives from time to time, in which all seems to come together in a way that cannot be planned for?



I do have a few of the sample maps from the current EXS Jaeger strings in my active library. They have something similar to the old Kirk Hunter strings from the Akai era that I still use - a bit of that thick and distant sound quality that made even some crude ROMpler workstation strings work in context. I still use a few Kirk Hunter maps all the time because they're just so darn thick and indistinct - one of the old tremolo strings patches is so nice and blurry that you can barely tell it's a tremolo - it just sounds like sustain strings with a bit of wiggle. Neither the Jaeger or Akai-era Kirk Hunter strings are in the same league as modern libraries in terms of detailed sound or sophisticated mapping, but... there's something about the tone that I like. It's "non-weedy" - not thin at all, and makes very simple parts sound bigger than they are, and the smoothness across the keyboard is often much better than modern libraries that were sampled section-by-section and then combined in the sampler.

Respect to Denny Jaeger for being one of the true pioneers - and getting a great tone.


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## Brian2112 (Jun 18, 2019)

Not an instrument but Wizzoverb W2 and W5 are my favorite reverbs to this day. Gone! Activation servers aren’t even alive anymore.


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## LamaRose (Jun 18, 2019)

Vardaro said:


> Dan Dean solo strings.
> I was about to buy them, but was a week or two too late..
> Lovely viola and cello.



What happened there... did he close up shop?


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## robgb (Jun 18, 2019)

Wolf68 said:


> the full Garritan Orchestral Strings. If someone wants to sell for a reasonable Price, please let me know.


A lot of it is included in GPO 5.


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## storyteller (Jun 18, 2019)

*Native Instruments B4II* (still works in 64 bit emulation mode, but unavailable to purchase). Still my go-to Hammond.
*
Linplug RMIV*... version V was buggy and both are discontinued.

I’ll second both Garritan solo instruments (*Stradivari* and *Gofriller*). I feel lucky to own them. But I love the Bohemian series most today.

On the FX side of things, *URS Channel Strip Pro* (32 bit only)... http://www.ursplugins.com/ursStripPro.php


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## wst3 (Jun 19, 2019)

Brian2112 said:


> Not an instrument but Wizzoverb W2 and W5 are my favorite reverbs to this day. Gone! Activation servers aren’t even alive anymore.


AMEN to that - I really miss WizzoVerb W2.


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## IdealSequenceG (Jul 16, 2019)

Albion Legacy

I prefer the tone of the instrument in Legacy. One is too FF sound for me, so it's hard to use it if it's not an Epic genre.


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