# Which piano samples?



## dman007 (Sep 9, 2017)

Which piano samples virtual instrument and why?


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## Kubler (Sep 9, 2017)

Fat and powerful sound to add weight and color to cinematic-like pieces > *The Giant* by Native Instruments. Perfectly suited for action cues and blaring epicness, but it sounds a bit too processed for classical and lighter writing.

Said classical and lighter writing, emotional parts > *Berlin Concert Grand* by Native Instruments. There's a lot of other libraries out there but BCG is the one I usually chose, as I find it quite balanced in terms of dynamics and sound definition within its whole range (and it has a pretty sound, of course.) I tried *Aria Silk Piano* by Aria Sounds but it sounded kind of artificial in my opinion.


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## germancomponist (Sep 9, 2017)

https://www.vi-control.net/communit...rgrand-hybrid-piano.53995/page-2#post-4127646


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## lastmessiah (Sep 9, 2017)

I've been playing the Air Mini Grand through some reverb and quite like the sound: 

http://www.airmusictech.com/product/mini-grand#.WbQqmBNSyL8

Dynamics are excellent.


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## Quasar (Sep 9, 2017)

I've never said this before, but I'm a newly converted Pianoteq fan, and now believe it to be superior to any of the humongous sample library pianos I've tried. (Not that I've tried most of them.) And I still really like both the sonic quality and flexibility of Galaxy Vintage D.


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## Lotias (Sep 9, 2017)

Pianoteq for me.


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## thereus (Sep 9, 2017)

Summary (after a few edits).


If you want cheap but passable:

*Waves Audio Grand Rhapsodie
AIR MINI
Ivy Audio Piano in 162* is free!

Otherwise, first buy Pianoteq and then if you have the cash to burn, work out what else you need. No need to buy more than one of each category:


Soft and intimate cinematic:
*Native Instruments Una Corda* [simply amazing]
*Spitfire Audio *_*Olafur Arnolds Toolkit *_[also nice]
*Spitfire Audio Felt Piano*


Big and dramatic cinematic:
*Spitfire Audio Hans Zimmer Piano* [big soundscapes, single piano, insane number of mics]
*Native Instruments Giant *[lots of drama from very variable sounds]


Classical detail in playing:
*SonicCouture Hammersmith *[My personal goto]
*Garritan CFX
Vienna Imperial* [super detailed, super expensive]
*Sampletekk Black Grand 2* or *TVBO* [nice and not too pricey, UI looks ugly]


Other character (ok, so you might need more than one of these for specific things depending on what you do):
*Soundiron Emotional Piano* [Designed to tug heart strings in a certain way but lacks something for me]
*Cinesamples Piano in Blue* [if you need that blue sound, this is the only place to get it.]
*Native Instruments Alicia's keys* [Meh...]
*Spectransonics Keyscape *[infinitely more than just a piano]
*8DIO Estonia* [unusual with a hint of exotic]
*Art Vista Malmsjo* [old, smooth, warm]
*Sampletekk Rain Piano* [beat up upright - there are a bunch of these around]
*Sound Dust ShipsPiano3 *[Pendle always delivers from the left field]
_*Cinematic Studio Piano *_[erm...]


Effects
*Audio Imperia Klavier* and *Red *[modern sound design]
*Spectransonics Keyscape/Omnisphere* [you can really change stuff up with this combination]


After that then you are in buying for pleasure mode. Consider the rest of the others and the below (in rough descending order of awesomeness. Actually, I have no idea of ranking of some of these. Indeed, I don't have every on but have listened to as much of the others that I can find and read many many threads and reviews. Some-much-of-a-muchness products seem to have landed in the middle. It really depends what you like.)

*Bechstein Digital Grand* [next paycheque will go here]
*Synthology Ivory II* [very accurate sounds]
*VI Labs Audio Ravenscroft 275* [workhorse but never makes it to final mix for me]
*Imperfect Samples (Lots of them)* [beautifully all over the shop]
*Production Voices Production Grand 2
EastWest QL Pianos
Galaxy Vintage D* [may be in playing category above for some, nice samples but too few of them in my view]
*UVI* _*Grand Piano Collection*_
*Accoustic Samples (various)
VI Labs Audio Truekeys
Orange Tree Rosewood* [nice but goes thin sometimes]
*8DIO* *(1990 Studio, 1969 Steinway, 1928 Steinway)*[I don't own these - reports differ wildly]
*Arturia V *[Not really there yet. Will no doubt improve]
*Sampletekk WG2
Sonivox Eighty Eight* [underrated]
*Native Instruments Definitive Piano Collection* [never managed to make these feel special]
*XLN Audio Addictive Keys* [lots of people rave but i don't...]
*WavesFactory Mercury* [disappointing to me. Dull high range, HQ mode squeaks and spits on my system (i7 970)]


Others that I don't know enough to comment on.
*Fluffy Audio Scoring* [don't know it, personally - anyone else wish to comment?]
*Impact Sound Works Pearl Concert Grand *[don't know it, personally - anyone else wish to comment?]
*Pro Audio Vault Bluthner One
Cinesamples Abbey Road Uprights*[don't know it, personally - anyone else wish to comment?]

This is a summary of the state of the market.

Everyone has an opinion. One of the other commenters has described my list as "questionable" and I absolutely agree. Question away. This is a highly subjective personal opinion about a highly subjective subject. Hell, I doubt even the categories above will mean the same things for everyone. For instance, I have a passionate hatred of having too few velocity layers which does not seem to be universally shared. Also, everyone gets attached to things - sounds, products etc. particularly those they buy and use. People are making different sorts of music with differing keyboard and programming skills, have affinities to different real-world pianos, are using different monitors/effects/controllers, have different needs in terms of flexibility and different budgets. Another total wildcard is "mixability" which depends so much on the particular situation that to me every template needs a new rehearsal for the piano parts. There is huge overlap between what individual products can do also, so different people will have different combinations to cover the same territory.

If anyone wants to "correct" me/make the list better, let me know.


Anyway...


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## Vanni (Sep 9, 2017)

Pianoteq if you want the best sound, Pianoteq if you want the best playability, Pianoteq if you want best loading times.


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## CGR (Sep 9, 2017)

thereus said:


> My summary. (Everyone has an opinion.)
> 
> If you want cheap but passable:
> 
> ...


Very comprehensive and well-informed summary!


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## CGR (Sep 9, 2017)

Vanni said:


> Pianoteq if you want the best sound, Pianoteq if you want the best playability, Pianoteq if you want best loading times.


Best loading times: I agree. Best playability: ditto. Best sound: Depends greatly on personal taste & musical context, hence the multitude of virtual pianos on the market. Unfortunately for our wallets, there is no one-size-fits-all product out there in my opinion.


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## thereus (Sep 9, 2017)

CGR said:


> Best loading times: I agree. Best playability: ditto. Best sound: Depends greatly on personal taste & musical context, hence the multitude of virtual pianos on the market. Unfortunately for our wallets, there is no one-size-fits-all product out there in my opinion.



One other benefit. It takes very little HD space and you don't need an SSD.
Agree about sound being more about personal taste. It isn't my absolute favourite, but you have to hand it to them in terms of what they have achieved with modelling.


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## Arbee (Sep 9, 2017)

Ivory American D - great sound (esp bottom end), lots of flexibility for tweaking the timbre, ability to add pads is useful. Best all rounder by far for me.

I went and listened to Pianoteq again after all the praise here of late, and while it gets closer with each release, it's still not quite there yet to my ears.


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## Quasar (Sep 9, 2017)

Arbee said:


> Ivory American D - great sound (esp bottom end), lots of flexibility for tweaking the timbre, ability to add pads is useful. Best all rounder by far for me.
> 
> I went and listened to Pianoteq again after all the praise here of late, and while it gets closer with each release, it's still not quite there yet to my ears.


I can't argue with that. A few versions ago, I tried the demo and was really turned-off by the tonal character of the various instruments, as much as I liked the superior touch response and the expressiveness of the action. When I tried the v6 demo, to me it has at least approached the level of a decent sample library, to the point where maybe becomes a matter of subjective judgment and taste. 

But I couldn't boldly assert that it's all the way there either. For me though, it's enough "in the neighborhood" that the touch response aspect pushes it over the top.


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## Lotias (Sep 9, 2017)

I've never heard anything in Pianoteq that said "fake piano" specifically to me - there are of course differences in sound, but it's definitely there for me. Some of the things in Pianoteq just aren't there yet though - the marimba is much better in v6 but not there yet, and I'm still not sure about the glockenspiel. The celesta is basically there for me though.


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## lastmessiah (Sep 9, 2017)

I actually like the ever-so-slightly synthetic tone of Pianoteq, it adds a neat futuristic character to the piano. Plus you can send through all kinds of reverb and effects to make it sound however you like, to say nothing of the technique used by the player himself.


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## Fleer (Sep 9, 2017)

If you go Pianoteq, check out Blüthner and Grotrian. 
If not, Bechstein Digital is the best IMO. Also dearly love Wavesfactory Mercury and ImpactSoundworks Pearl, as well as the TrueKeys trio, Soundiron Emotional and OrangeTreeSamples Rosewood.


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## re-peat (Sep 10, 2017)

CGR said:


> Very comprehensive and well-informed summary!


Can’t say I agree. Going by my experience, I find that Thereus summary to be as uninformative and misleading as it is questionable.

For example, to say that the Emotional “does everything” is just wrong. In actual fact, the Emotional can do very little, but in that small niche where it works, it can be more satisfying than just about anything else.

Putting the Hammersmith forward as a great piano for classical playing, is also something I find highly disputable. Personally, I think it’s one of the poorest piano emulations for classical playing. Occasionaly a sensible choice for other stuff though.

And calling the Vintage D a ‘character piano’ is yet another of several statements in that summary that make my eyebrows behave like the Leaping Nuns of Norwich.

_


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## CGR (Sep 10, 2017)

re-peat said:


> Can’t say I agree. Going by my experience, I find that Thereus summary to be as uninformative and misleading as it is questionable.
> 
> For example, to say that the Emotional “does everything” is just wrong. In actual fact, the Emotional can do very little, but in that small niche where it works, it can be more satisfying than just about anything else.
> 
> ...


Being a little harsh there Re-peat I feel, for someone going to the effort of offering advice. It seems to me that from some of his quick summaries that Thereus has had hands-on experience with many of these. He did put in the disclaimer "Everyone has an opinion" and for a quick overview I think his thoughts would be quite helpful (and on many points an accurate assessment in my opinion). Each to their own.


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## thereus (Sep 10, 2017)

re-peat said:


> Can’t say I agree. Going by my experience, I find that Thereus summary to be as uninformative and misleading as it is questionable.
> 
> For example, to say that the Emotional “does everything” is just wrong. In actual fact, the Emotional can do very little, but in that small niche where it works, it can be more satisfying than just about anything else.
> 
> ...



Everyone has their opinion. Agree that the comment on Emotional could be misleading. "Everything" is probably not helpful. I will amend. I strongly disagree with you about the Hammersmith. It's the piano that I most enjoy for actual playing. Velocity Layers and raw sound are everything.

It's my best stab. You could provide yours. Alternatively we could see if there is a way to create a collective version.

Where would you put vintage d? I've moved it to the others section where I think you may be right that it fits better. 

I was conscious that I have chosen a particular way of dividing the pianos up by type. There are others ways to divide them. For instance, by brand/model being emulated or by number of Mocs/round robins/velocity layers.

Hope your eyebrows are ok.

Thereus


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## re-peat (Sep 10, 2017)

thereus said:


> Where would you put vintage d?


This post says where, and my following posts in that thread describe some of the problems I'm having with the Hammersmith.

_


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## thereus (Sep 10, 2017)

Wow, 

We will have to agree to disagree.

I would rather have Pianoteq or the Hammersmith for playability over Vintage D any day of the week. They respond to every stroke with the broad palette of a piano in a way that Vintage D does not for me.


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## germancomponist (Sep 10, 2017)

thereus said:


> Wow,
> 
> We will have to agree to disagree.
> 
> I would rather have Pianoteq or the Hammersmith for playability over Vintage D any day of the week. They respond to every stroke with the broad palette of a piano in a way that Vintage D does not for me.


I agree with you about the Pianoteq playability, but the sound is not my cup of tea. Way behind the Vintage D.


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## PaulBrimstone (Sep 10, 2017)

I always enjoy VI-Control’s seemingly endless “which piano” threads, but it always surprises me there is so little mention of Pianoteq’s extensive vintage instrument collection. To me, there is great joy in playing Beethoven on a modelled ancient Erard or Streicher, or Chopin on a Pleyel, and hearing the music as they might have done. That, plus the fabulous job they have done on their modern instruments, is why Pianoteq is at the top of my DAW template of (many) pianos, which includes a great number of those mentioned in this thread. I get it that Pianoteq is not everyone’s cuppa, but it is definitely my go-to. Anyway, the more the merrier...


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## dman007 (Sep 11, 2017)

Which is best for cinematic, film and TV work?


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## Lotias (Sep 11, 2017)

dman007 said:


> Which is best for cinematic, film and TV work?


That is broad. All of the libraries/plugins mentioned here would work just fine for that, _depending entirely on what exactly it is you're composing_.


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 11, 2017)

Well, I have not been much of a Piantoeq fan at all over the years. I bought the stage version and hardly every used it as I did not like the sound very much at all. I have just upgraded to v6, but will have to hold judgement on it untilI get back home (been travelling).

Right now, Ivory II American Concert D is my go to - with a some QL spaces reverb replacing the built in one. It is sensational (IMO).

I doubt very much that Pianoteq 6 is going to make me change my mind, but I'm hoping that I too will see the big improvements everyone is talking about. But there does need to be be. I really didn't like 5 very much at all. I was very impressed with the reasonable upgrade cost too.

Also the Ivory II uprights collection is my guilty pleasure.


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## SoNowWhat? (Sep 11, 2017)

I love the truekeys (American, German and Italian). Having said that, there's loads out there that I haven't tried yet. I just love these (the first two in particular) and haven't felt the need to look further yet. I'm interested in the Bechstein by Bechstein if I venture further.


...wait, Norwich has leaping nuns? I must pay a visit.


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## Fleer (Sep 11, 2017)

Also check out Roma by Federico Fellini


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## Mike Fox (Sep 11, 2017)

Imperfect Samples. They offer a certain realistic touch that I havent heard in any other piano library.


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## Will Blackburn (Sep 11, 2017)

Soundiron Emo Piano is my bread and butter.
Imperfect Samples Fazioli and Steinway for super realism.
Olafur Arnold Composer Piano for softer/ambient stuff.
Wavefactory Mercury nice for anything Pop / Rock.


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 11, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Also check out Roma by Federico Fellini



If Fellini is involved I bet the samples will be naked......


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## CGR (Sep 11, 2017)

If you're after pianos with character and soul, I recommend checking out the ArtVista pianos (Virtual Grand Piano - 1960 Steinway B, Malmsjo - old Swedish grand piano, and the hybrid of the two - Supergrand). They are also pretty light on computer resources, and very playable too.


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## AllanH (Sep 11, 2017)

One of my favorites that has not been mentioned is SampleTekk: They have a beautiful Black Grand (a German D, I believe) and a Yamaha C7 (C7G, which I won). The MKII editions are much-improved over the older versions.

The black Grand MkII can be made very dynamic with a bit of compression or velocity curve adjustment. At least that's how it works with my midi controller.


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## DMerkel (Sep 12, 2017)

It's been mentioned, but I've come to prefer the UVI True Keys collection as a default piano instrument. I have a couple others for unique sounds, personality and ambiance: Art Vista's Supergrand (love this one); NI's The Gentleman; and, SampleTekk Black.


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## Lode_Runner (Sep 13, 2017)

thereus said:


> Summary (after a few edits).
> 
> 
> If you want cheap but passable:
> ...



Awesome extensive list - you must have got 90% of what's out there in Sample World (no mean feat in this day and age when there are so many piano libraries). I noted a few extras that didn't make the list - I would love to see where you'd rate them:
* Fluffy Audio's My Piano (one of my favourites)
* Galaxy 2 collection
* E-Instruments Session Keys S and Y
* Chocolate Audio's 88 Series Model D, Model 7 and Steinbach Upright 
* Art Vista's Virtual Grand 3
* Steinberg's the Grand 3
* Soundiron's Old Granny Piano, Drinking Piano, Montclarion Hall
* Sampletekk/PMI Emperor and Old Lady (sadly no longer available, but still two of my favourites)


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## dman007 (Sep 13, 2017)

What do you think of the Waves Grand Rhapsody?


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## dman007 (Sep 14, 2017)

SoNowWhat? said:


> I love the truekeys (American, German and Italian). Having said that, there's loads out there that I haven't tried yet. I just love these (the first two in particular) and haven't felt the need to look further yet. I'm interested in the Bechstein by Bechstein if I venture further.
> 
> 
> ...wait, Norwich has leaping nuns? I must pay a visit.



If you had to pick one of the True Keys pianos, which one would it be?


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## Jeast (Sep 14, 2017)

dman007 said:


> If you had to pick one of the True Keys pianos, which one would it be?


American!


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## dman007 (Sep 14, 2017)

Jeast said:


> American!


What makes the American your favourite?


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## Fleer (Sep 14, 2017)

It's huge.


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## ratherbirds (Sep 14, 2017)

Lode_Runner said:


> * Steinberg's the Grand 3
> * Soundiron's Old Granny Piano, Drinking Piano, Montclarion Hall
> * Sampletekk/PMI Emperor and Old Lady (sadly no longer available, but still two of my favourites)


I've tried the C7 in Steinberg's the Grand 3 package and i have feel it was very precise, peaked and with a resonance in medium high very silky. And no key sound does not agree with others. Relaxing.


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## dman007 (Sep 15, 2017)

Does anyone think the mid-range on Emotional Piano is too thick/slightly muddy? 

Has anyone got more thoughts on the Bechstein Digital, VI Keys, Imperfect Samples Ebony Fazioli or Vienna Imperial ?


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## Cdnalsi (Sep 15, 2017)

dman007 said:


> Does anyone think the mid-range on Emotional Piano is too thick/slightly muddy?
> 
> Has anyone got more thoughts on the Bechstein Digital, VI Keys, Imperfect Samples Ebony Fazioli or Vienna Imperial ?



The Bechstein Digital had too loud of note/hammer release sample. That was the only thing bothered me a little. (And quite possibly no way to turn it down other than EQ it out...)

I was lucky to play on a few of these pianos, since my friend runs a pretty big studio.

Galaxy Vienna Grand is the one I like the best so far. A close second is Imperfect Samples' Fazioli and Steinway.

All the others seemed to have no or very little character in the middle. Especially for light or staccato playing. Weird...

But yeah, seasoned jazz pianist for 25+ years here. Vienna Grand and Imperfect Samples' stuff. Those are the best for me so far, minus actually getting a real piano in the studio.

Happy hunting!


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## SoNowWhat? (Sep 15, 2017)

dman007 said:


> If you had to pick one of the True Keys pianos, which one would it be?


If you were to pick just one I'd probably suggest the American.

I need to qualify this though. My favourite is the German (Bechstein), but I have an unhealthy infatuation with Bechsteins so there is definitely some bias there. I think the American is the best all-rounder of the three in terms of tone and versatility and I can think of a couple of pieces where it sounds better than the Bechstein to my ears.

They really are quite different and suit different pieces/styles and I'm glad to have all three. Bechstein is wonderfully warm rounded and voluptuous, the Italian is the brightest and would be good if you wanted to really cut through or maybe for pop while the American sits in the middle, very articulate and quite refined.

They do have una corda option if you want it too.

All my 2 cents worth mind you and as I said earlier in the thread I do not have an exhaustive set of piano samples to compare. I have no trouble believing that some of the instruments mentioned in this thread could/would be better than the true keys but I have been very happy and haven't felt a need to look further just yet.

Edit - @Cdnalsi seems to know their onions and have compared many instruments. I'd read carefully what the ears and fingers of experience have to say. My experience is based on a small sample size.


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## dman007 (Sep 15, 2017)

Anyone for the VSL Vienna Imperial ?


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## CGR (Sep 15, 2017)

dman007 said:


> Does anyone think the mid-range on Emotional Piano is too thick/slightly muddy?
> 
> Has anyone got more thoughts on the Bechstein Digital, VI Keys, Imperfect Samples Ebony Fazioli or Vienna Imperial ?


I can offer an opinion on VI Labs Ravenscroft, Bechstein, Fazioli and the Imperfect Samples Ebony Fazioli Complete edition:

*VI Labs Ravenscroft 275:* Top shelf sampled piano, with all features implemented in great detail. The tone to my ears (and others) is a very modern, polished, clean and somewhat clinical sound. Fantastic for some uses, but lacking warmth and character for some of the more 'heartfelt' type tunes I sometimes write & play.

*VI Labs TrueKeys Bechstein:* Love it, and prefer it to the Ravenscroft. Has more wood/body in the tone to my ears, and not as sterile as the Ravenscroft (but beautifully sampled and programmed).

*VI Labs TrueKeys Fazioli:* Don't play it much to be honest. An acquired taste, and very dynamic with a huge bass (also very well sampled and programmed). Some have complained about some phasing issues with multiple mic sets, but I haven't used it enough to make a call on that. I have played a real Fazioli (210cm grand) and it was stunning. The overall sound signature is not as complex as a Steinway in overtones/harmonics (more pure fundamental tones) but I found that can be a good thing in an accompanying role with a singer, or in a classical piano trio.

*Imperfect Samples Ebony Fazioli Complete:* I entered into the Imperfect world with the Basic version, and soon upgraded to Pro and then Complete (yeah, I'm a sucker, but each upgrade offers more velocity layers and mic perspectives). This would be in the top 3 unique, character-filled sampled grand pianos I own (the others being the *ArtVista VGP3 and Malmsjo*). If you want to fool a listener into thinking your piano solo was recorded on a real acoustic piano (with less complex piano playing I might add), this should be on your list to investigate (along with the ArtVista pianos). Not just for soft playing though - the Imperfect Fazioli can really 'bite' if you need it to (the website demos don't really illustrate this).

Hope that helps.


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## Fleer (Sep 15, 2017)

Bechstein Digital above all, also for its sound shaping. Check out the demo before you buy anything. As for Fazioli, I prefer Wavesfactory Mercury, as it comes closest to the "Queen" sound I wanted and adds wonderful plate reverbs you can even use separately.


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## lp59burst (Sep 15, 2017)

Cdnalsi said:


> The Bechstein Digital had too loud of note/hammer release sample. That was the only thing bothered me a little. (And quite possibly no way to turn it down other than EQ it out...)
> 
> <snip>


On the Bechstein Digital, did you go to the "Details" tab and right up near the top adjust the "Keys", "Pedals", "Dampers", and "String Release" strength? 

Out of the box they're a bit to pronounced for my tastes so I generally set themt to 0 (zero). I'm not trying to make anyone think I'm playing a real one though...


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## keepitsimple (Sep 15, 2017)

Ravenscroft 275. The only piano i use for both inspiration *and* recording.


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## Rob (Sep 15, 2017)

another one not mentioned is the Sonivox 88, an excellent piano...


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## Guffy (Sep 15, 2017)

8Dio's 1990 Studio Piano is sweet.


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## Lotias (Sep 15, 2017)

dman007 said:


> Anyone for the VSL Vienna Imperial ?


Well, since nobody else is talking about it, the Vienna Imperial is just about the most detailed _sample_ library on the market, and features 100 dynamic layers since the piano had built-in playback capabilities. It also has a few microphone positions, simulated sympathetic resonance, and so on. It sounds pretty good.


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## kimarnesen (Sep 15, 2017)

IMO no library is as realistic and good as a real piano yet, but 8dio's 1990 studio and Ravenscroft is my faves.


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## dman007 (Sep 27, 2017)

Does the imperfect samples ebony only have a Kontakt 4 instruments folder? 

Are their no pedal controls?


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## studiostuff (Sep 27, 2017)

dman007 said:


> Has anyone got more thoughts on the Bechstein Digital ?



I have it, I like it, I use it... Got it at the edu discount rate... I have many pianos, and kinda switch around using any particular one depending on what I'm recording and what is hooked up at the moment and how big a hurry I'm in. The Bechstein sounds great. If you're a student or teacher, get it at the edu discount... it's definitely worth that price at the least.


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## dman007 (Sep 27, 2017)

What is good for film/tv work for cues - to sound real ? ...And for pedal controls, round robins?


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## MaxOctane (Sep 27, 2017)

I find all these discussions about the Best Kontakt Piano to be very frustrating, because I've consistently had problems with the sustain pedal with kontakt piano libs. I play with a lot of pedal (think Philip Glass and Debussy) and it consistently crackles when I release the pedal, if there were a lot of notes held. It doesn't happen with every single pedal release, but when it does happen, it's even reproducible during playback. 

I've searched all over the various forums, and other people have reported this too, but no solution. Frankly, I don't understand how people do any serious amount of playing with kontakt pianos.

Maybe it's just the programming on certain instruments? 8Dio's 1970 Estonian has this problem, e.g., which is sad because the sound is very sweet. But I've seen it on other libs too.

I'm looking at getting Pianoteq now....


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## Lotias (Sep 27, 2017)

MaxOctane said:


> I'm looking at getting Pianoteq now....


Well, it can definitely handle the most demanding pedalling techniques you can throw at it.


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## robgb (Sep 27, 2017)

The only correct answer to this is Pianoteq.


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## dman007 (Sep 27, 2017)

For me, it will be for film/tv application for cues (& trailers) - it must sound real ? Need pedal controls, half-pedalling and control over sustains, and sostenuto, soft pedal/dampning. 

I don't think the IS Fazioli has these, does it? 

VI Labs American D sounds good but I'm still doubtful, and torn between their other models.

Then there's the Ivory II Studio Grands... I do like the sound of their Steinway B 

..and the 8dio 1990 studio grand 

..and the Bechstein digital

Any thoughts on the older vsl boesendorfer imperial?


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## dman007 (Sep 27, 2017)

Doesn't Pianoteq use modelling instead of real samples?


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## Lotias (Sep 27, 2017)

dman007 said:


> For me, it will be for film/tv application for cues (& trailers) - it must sound real ? Need pedal controls, half-pedalling and control over sustains, and sostenuto, soft pedal/dampning.
> 
> I don't think the IS Fazioli has these, does it?
> 
> ...


The older VSL library won't have what you're looking for - it's not scripted to play like a real piano IIRC. Their newer much more expensive one would be much closer.



Spoiler



You might also consider Pianoteq, which will have all of those features and sound real.


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## Lotias (Sep 27, 2017)

dman007 said:


> Doesn't Pianoteq use modelling instead of real samples?


Yes, but that shouldn't turn you off from it - that's exactly why it plays so well.


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## ZenFaced (Sep 27, 2017)

Has anyone mentioned Keyscape C7?


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## sostenuto (Sep 27, 2017)

ZenFaced said:


> Has anyone mentioned Keyscape C7?



What I saw was .... Garritan CFX as very strong. Lite version available too. 

Worth checking out thoroughly .... ?


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## robgb (Sep 27, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> What I saw was .... Garritan CFX as very strong. Lite version available too.
> 
> Worth checking out thoroughly .... ?


The Garritan grand piano in GPO 5 is a fantastic piano. And I suspect CFX is even better.


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## dman007 (Sep 29, 2017)

re-peat said:


> Can’t say I agree. Going by my experience, I find that Thereus summary to be as uninformative and misleading as it is questionable.
> 
> For example, to say that the Emotional “does everything” is just wrong. In actual fact, the Emotional can do very little, but in that small niche where it works, it can be more satisfying than just about anything else.
> 
> ...



What would you recommend?


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## dman007 (Sep 29, 2017)

AllanH said:


> One of my favorites that has not been mentioned is SampleTekk: They have a beautiful Black Grand (a German D, I believe) and a Yamaha C7 (C7G, which I won). The MKII editions are much-improved over the older versions.
> 
> The black Grand MkII can be made very dynamic with a bit of compression or velocity curve adjustment. At least that's how it works with my midi controller.



What compression settings do you normally apply on the Sampletekk?


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## Casiquire (Oct 1, 2017)

I have to agree with all the Pianoteq love. I hated it at first, but then made a few key discoveries. For one, the Bluthner. All that resonance is beautiful, and I tend to turn it up.

Then there's the Condition slider. If you've judged Pianoteq without playing with the Condition slider at the bottom, go back and judge it again! Somewhere around 75% new is nice.

It's an incredible instrument that actually sounds more real to me than other libraries of real instruments.


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## dman007 (Oct 6, 2017)

Has anyone used the impactsoundworks Pearl concert grand ?


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## Fleer (Oct 6, 2017)

dman007 said:


> Has anyone used the impactsoundworks Pearl concert grand ?


Oh yes, I quite like it. It's a modern sounding Yamaha C7 with lots of sound tweakability and it comes with both 16bit and 24bit samples, so you can use the former on your laptop and the latter on your desk. Also, developer Impactsoundworks is top notch with a great account handling website, where you can find your download files whenever you want them. Conclusion: very worthwhile.


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## tack (Oct 6, 2017)

dman007 said:


> Has anyone used the impactsoundworks Pearl concert grand ?


Great character. Excellent tone. Poor playability (pedaling just doesn't feel right) and terrible hiss on many of the round robins that builds up noticeably to a degree that may not be usable in a solo context at softer dynamics. Excellent company though and I was terribly impressed by their response to my criticisms.


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## prodigalson (Oct 6, 2017)

anybody like the imperfect samples walnut grand?

doesn't get mentioned much around here but I've been looking at it a lot lately because I like it's character.


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## jmvideo (Oct 7, 2017)

prodigalson said:


> anybody like the imperfect samples walnut grand?
> 
> doesn't get mentioned much around here but I've been looking at it a lot lately because I like it's character.



The IS pianos sound great, but are not playable. They pass for doing slow ballads or tracks with minimal notes, but break down on anything busier than that.


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## pobsky (Oct 7, 2017)

Hey, i was wondering what you guys thought of Arturias Piano V if you have used it ? im thinking of purchasing the full Arturia bundle for the analogue synths mainly but maybe the piano could be a nice addition to using the east west piano i currently have been using and could persuade me to invest !


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## thereus (Oct 8, 2017)

jmvideo said:


> The IS pianos sound great, but are not playable. They pass for doing slow ballads or tracks with minimal notes, but break down on anything busier than that.


Break down in what sense?


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## SillyMidOn (Oct 8, 2017)

prodigalson said:


> anybody like the imperfect samples walnut grand?
> 
> doesn't get mentioned much around here but I've been looking at it a lot lately because I like it's character.


Out of all the many pianos I have it's my favourite. VI pianos are a tricky subject for anyone who is a pianist, as none of them actually feel like you are playing a real piano, so it's often a case of personal preference, as well as using different pianos for different settings. I tweak the velocity curve quite a bit on the Walnut Grand, and make it work that way for me. I personally don't get along at all with the Artvista ones for example, or the East West Pianos. The Una Corda is great as well, especially for creating interesting effects once you get under the hood, and there is a lot that can be tweaked, but again, it work well in certain scenarios, but not all.


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## khollister (Oct 9, 2017)

SillyMidOn said:


> Out of all the many pianos I have it's my favourite.



My problem with IS Walnut Steinway is the velocity layers are a) too few and b) too obvious. When I play it at a constant velocity it sounds excellent, but I can hear the layers switch in and out. CFX and Ivory are far better illusions IMHO in that regard. THe CFX response to velocity is pretty much perfect - the tone changes as you expect a real piano to with no detectable steps.


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## dman007 (Oct 9, 2017)

And Synthogy Ivory II? Their Studio Grands?


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## khollister (Oct 9, 2017)

dman007 said:


> And Synthogy Ivory II? Their Studio Grands?



I have Ivory American D (don't have Studio Grands). It is probably my runner-up to CFX, especially as far as playability.


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## SillyMidOn (Oct 9, 2017)

khollister said:


> My problem with IS Walnut Steinway is the velocity layers are a) too few and b) too obvious. When I play it at a constant velocity it sounds excellent, but I can hear the layers switch in and out. CFX and Ivory are far better illusions IMHO in that regard. THe CFX response to velocity is pretty much perfect - the tone changes as you expect a real piano to with no detectable steps.


Intersting - I need to check those two out in more detail. That issue with velocity layers is one I have with all pianos, but with the Walnut I can live best with it. I keep meaning to buy the 127 velocity layer Fazioli that Imperfect Samples do - in theory that one should work best, but that's in theory.

One thing I do dislike about the Walnut Grand is that the samples at very low velocities sound far too different between sustain pedal on and off and there is, on some notes, quite a loud thunk when the pedal moves, on the sample itself, so turning of the pedal noice does not make a difference.


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## dman007 (Oct 9, 2017)

SillyMidOn said:


> Intersting - I need to check those two out in more detail. That issue with velocity layers is one I have with all pianos, but with the Walnut I can live best with it. I keep meaning to buy the 127 velocity layer Fazioli that Imperfect Samples do - in theory that one should work best, but that's in theory.
> 
> One thing I do dislike about the Walnut Grand is that the samples at very low velocities sound far too different between sustain pedal on and off and there is, on some notes, quite a loud thunk when the pedal moves, on the sample itself, so turning of the pedal noice does not make a difference.



No real pedal controls on the IS Fazioli. No half-pedalling.


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## Brian2112 (Oct 9, 2017)

I like the ew pianos, pianoteq, true pianos, and so on. But my favorite for sound has become the Galaxy Vintage D.


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## muziksculp (Oct 10, 2017)

Hi,

My favorite Piano at this time is the_ Classic Philharmonik Grand Piano_ that is a part of the *IK Multimedia Miroslav Philharmonik II* Library. I hear great things about Pinoteq 6 , I might consider it in the future, but for now I'm very Happy with the Miroslav Piano.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## fixxer49 (Oct 10, 2017)

dman007 said:


> And Synthogy Ivory II? Their Studio Grands?


The studio grands are very, _very_ good. It took me a while to warm up to them, but I love the Steinway B model in particular.


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## Fleer (Oct 10, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> My favorite Piano at this time is the_ Classic Philharmonik Grand Piano_ that is a part of the *IK Multimedia Miroslav Philharmonik II* Library. I hear great things about Pinoteq 6 , I might consider it in the future, but for now I'm very Happy with the Miroslav Piano.
> 
> ...


About time I start uncorking that Miro 2.


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## Vardaro (Dec 18, 2017)

Sampletek's Black Grand (SteinwayD), & PMI's much-missed Emperor (Bosendorfer).


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## dman007 (Dec 21, 2017)

Which of these would you prefer? 

C. Bechstein Digital Grand 

or

VI Labs True Keys American Grand 

...and why? 

Thanks in advance


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## studiostuff (Dec 21, 2017)

dman007 said:


> Which of these would you prefer?
> 
> C. Bechstein Digital Grand
> 
> ...



I like the Bechstein. It sounds great to me, and I got it cheap using the edu-discount. I teach music tech at a local college and so, the Bechstein was like $100 if I recall correctly...


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## thereus (Dec 21, 2017)

How lovely that everyone has their favourite. Mine’s the Hammersmith.


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## Fleer (Dec 21, 2017)

studiostuff said:


> I like the Bechstein. It sounds great to me, and I got it cheap using the edu-discount. I teach music tech at a local college and so, the Bechstein was like $100 if I recall correctly...


Love that Bechstein Digital. It’s so ‘spot on’ and comes with unique sound design capabilities.


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## sazema (Dec 27, 2017)

I remember that time when I used mda-piano and it was very good  But that time I had HDD with capacity of 1 Gb


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