# Reverbs: Is what I have sufficent and which one for my purposes?



## widescreen (Apr 13, 2021)

As my first songs/pieces arise(d) while building the "perfect" template I come to refine them, especially with reverbs. I spared that totally until now as the ideas had first to be spilled. Perhaps someone can guide me being in my musical toddlerhood (though I'm a Middle Aged Man ).

Here's what I have in my collection so far:

Stock FX within Studio One 5 Pro

*AIR*
AIR Reverb (Creative FX Collection Plus)

*Eventide*
Blackhole

*iZotope/Exponential*
Nimbus
R4
NeoVerb

*Lexicon*
MPX-i Reverb

*Native Instruments*
RC 24
RC 48
Raum
Reflektor (in Guitar Rig 6 Pro)

*Valhalla*
Supermassive

My music is a wider range between guitar/band stuff (from Shoegaze to Progmetal) to cinematic/orchestral stuff, gladly combined if it fits.

As I have very little time for music (  ) I'd like to spend it only on the most promising reverbs (so many other topics on Mixing/Mastering to follow).
As far as I already have dived into the topic I'd start with Raum and Reflektor as Convolution Reverbs. Blackhole (I "accidentally" got it on a deep discount) should be more for the sound design part, as I have made out so far. Supermassive should be similar to it?

Neoverb looks promosing, too. More visual kind of work. Or should I prefer to begin with the "older" stuff like Nimbus and R4?

AIR seems more of a filler, or are there users that swear on it?

Do I have any need for RC 24 or 48 besides the marketing waffle?

Will Valhalla Room, EW Spaces II or 7th Heaven (I have an eye on it) bring substantial improvement to my setup?


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## doctoremmet (Apr 13, 2021)

widescreen said:


> from Shoegaze


❤️

You have great reverbs, no worries there. So I’d argue you don’t strictly “need” anything more than Nimbus and R4.

I’d add you may like 7H. I have the non-pro version and it won’t hurt the bank too much. To me it is one of the greatest sounding reverbs, and I find it’s easy to use. I typically grab that for any and all orchestral mixes.

I also quite like Denise PerfectPlateXL these days, for (shoegaze) vocals. (And I still use and love Waves H-Reverb too, for shoegaze type stuff).

Maybe add a good convolution reverb to your arsenal. Convology and/or Melda ConvolutionEZ are free, and I also like Waves IR1. Can also be really fun for sound design purposes as you can drop in any WAV and have your orchestra play in a beer can and silly stuff like that.


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## Consona (Apr 13, 2021)

> Is what I have sufficent


Yes.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 13, 2021)

And I will randomly just drop this here. Because I love shoegaze, I love this band and it is a disclaimer that I am nothing but an autodidact so never believe a syllable I utter when it comes to mixing!


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## storyteller (Apr 13, 2021)

What you have is more than sufficient. You have an excellent collection of tools that could work for the best engineers!

Now if you are doing engineering work and expect to have all of the plugins a client would send you or request, you'd also probably have some requests for (or receive sessions with) Lexicon PCM, Eventide SP2016, Relab 480, TC6000/TC4000, Valhalla Room/Plate/Vintage Verb, Abbey Road Plates, and Seventh Heaven among a few others.

Would I buy those I just listed if owned specifically what you owned? No.

The only other reverbs that I consider indispensable (for my tastes) compared to what you have on your list are my beloved SP2016 and Waves IR1 (but any IR plugin will work for you... I just like the included IRs with it).


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## vitocorleone123 (Apr 13, 2021)

Reververate3 can use the Waves IRs, I believe. It seems like the no/brainer IR machine to get.


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## widescreen (Apr 13, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> ❤️
> 
> You have great reverbs, no worries there. So I’d argue you don’t strictly “need” anything more than Nimbus and R4.
> 
> ...


OK, so +1 for 7H. I'll keep an eye on it. Are there regular sales?

Will definitely check out Denise and H-Reverb. If it's good for Shoegaze... 

So I assume Raum and Reflektor aren't good (enough) convolution reverbs?


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## widescreen (Apr 13, 2021)

storyteller said:


> What you have is more than sufficient. You have an excellent collection of tools that could work for the best engineers!
> 
> Now if you are doing engineering work and expect to have all of the plugins a client would send you or request, you'd also probably have some requests for (or receive sessions with) Lexicon PCM, Eventide SP2016, Relab 480, TC6000/TC4000, Valhalla Room, Valhalla Plate, Abbey Road Plates, and Seventh Heaven among a few others.
> 
> ...


OK, thanks.  So I was lucky getting these mostly with hardware or in some bundles. I think Blackhole was the only one I paid extra for.

Oh no, I am the most far of doing engineering for others. Only hoping some day I will be good enough to do my own stuff to be not recognized as a bumbler's work in the first 5 seconds. 

"Any IR" would be Reflektor for me, as it has 300 IRs, right?


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## widescreen (Apr 13, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Reververate3 can use the Waves IRs, I believe. It seems like the no/brainer IR machine to get.


You ment Reverberate 3, right? Are there any hidden salesmen for LiquidSonics in here?  You are the third that's recommending a product of them... 

I assume the Waves IRs can be downloaded somewhere freely to be inserted into Reverberate?

Seems to better check LS's website and get the Ultimate-Bundle on sale next week for just $19...


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## Trash Panda (Apr 13, 2021)

The reverb rabbit hole seems to go just as deep as the sample library rabbit hole. Seventh Heaven standard is very nice. I’ve noticed that I’ve ignored it and all other reverbs since getting Cinematic Rooms Pro. Best to use the trials, figure out which one you like best on your tunes and wait for a sale.


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## Markrs (Apr 13, 2021)

widescreen said:


> You ment Reverberate 3, right? Are there any hidden salesmen for LiquidSonics in here?  You are the third that's recommending a product of them...
> 
> I assume the Waves IRs can be downloaded somewhere freely to be inserted into Reverberate?
> 
> Seems to better check LS's website and get the Ultimate-Bundle on sale next week for just $19...


You can covert the Waves IRs (.wir) to .wav format that can then be used by any convolution reverb plugin you want to use

You can get the Waves IR library here: 









IR Convolution Reverb Library (4.8 GB) | Downloads | Waves


Download for free this massive library of high-definition impulse responses for the Waves IR-series reverb plugins, for optimal sonic depth and dimension.




www.waves.com





To convert them to wav use:









GitHub - opcode81/wir2wav: a simple tool for the conversion of .wir impulse response files into standard PCM .wav files


a simple tool for the conversion of .wir impulse response files into standard PCM .wav files - GitHub - opcode81/wir2wav: a simple tool for the conversion of .wir impulse response files into standa...




github.com





it is a simple command line utility.


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## Markrs (Apr 13, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> The reverb rabbit hole seems to go just as deep as the sample library rabbit hole. Seventh Heaven standard is very nice. I’ve noticed that I’ve ignored it and all other reverbs since getting Cinematic Rooms Pro. Best to use the trials, figure out which one you like best on your tunes and wait for a sale.


Guy Michelmore has done the same. He only uses Cinematic Rooms Pro now.


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## storyteller (Apr 13, 2021)

widescreen said:


> OK, thanks.  So I was lucky getting these mostly with hardware or in some bundles. I think Blackhole was the only one I paid extra for.
> 
> Oh no, I am the most far of doing engineering for others. Only hoping some day I will be good enough to do my own stuff to be not recognized as a bumbler's work in the first 5 seconds.
> 
> "Any IR" would be Reflektor for me, as it has 300 IRs, right?


No problem! You will love blackhole. It isn’t for use on everything, but when you discover its right use case, it is irreplaceable.

IR plugins are not really unique. It is the IRs that are unique. For example EastWest Spaces is an IR player with proprietary IRs. The same thing goes for the pricey Altiverb. If you want that sound, then you have to buy their plug-in. However, any IR plug-in should be able to playback generic IRs... so in that use case, they are all on an even playing field when it comes to 3rd party impulse responses.

You can grab Waves IR1 for $29-$39 pretty regularly. There is another plug-in by waves called IRL that is more often found in the $29 sale category, but it doesn’t offer independent early reflection control compared to its big brother. I’d skip that one and get IR1 between the two. Waves has been updating their plug-in GUIs, but these have t been touched yet... so they are a little dated visually, but will be updated soon I suspect.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 13, 2021)

widescreen said:


> OK, so +1 for 7H. I'll keep an eye on it. Are there regular sales?
> 
> Will definitely check out Denise and H-Reverb. If it's good for Shoegaze...
> 
> So I assume Raum and Reflektor aren't good (enough) convolution reverbs?


They're perfectly fine. I like the Waves IR1 because it has a bunch of useful IRs and I'm used to it. Stock DAW convo's are as good or maybe even better. I just don't know them - that's all!


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## doctoremmet (Apr 13, 2021)

This one's good too - and free.






Convology XT Plugin | Impulse Record







impulserecord.com





The free Melda reverbs are excellent too:









MFreeFXBundle


The biggest and the most powerful FREE plugins pack available



www.meldaproduction.com





(MCharmVerb is an algo taken from MTurboReverb - sounds great to be honest - and MConvolutionEZ is pretty much my go to fast convolution "drag-and-drop" option these days)


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## X-Bassist (Apr 13, 2021)

It’s surprising people commonly ask about reverbs but never talk about what kind of music they do. Really makes a difference. I wouldn’t use the same reverbs in orchestral as I do in rock or metal or jazz. Some info would be helpful.

But get to know what you have. R4 and Neoverb is where I would start. R4 is a basic old school algo reverb that is straightforward to learn and use (check out videos) and will teach you the basics about how most reverbs work.

Neoverb is the next gen reverb that can analyze the material and suggest a reverb (actually 2 reverbs combined) within the plugin. Then you can tweak to taste. Brilliant. Both these verbs can teach you a lot.

But reverb is like strings, layering many works great (esp on orchestral work) and each gives a different flavor, So you may find eventually having a large variety gives you more versatility. But for now, learn R4 and Neoverb. 😄👍


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## dzilizzi (Apr 13, 2021)

My only thought is a good "room" reverb - like 7H or Cinematic Rooms. Spaces is good too. 

And? Some of the ones you have will probably work just fine. It is more for the orchestral. You sometimes need a bit of ER's to go with the reverb. (early reflection to place the instrument on the stage) A spatial reverb would also work. Like Breeze + Precedence.


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## widescreen (Apr 13, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> The reverb rabbit hole seems to go just as deep as the sample library rabbit hole. Seventh Heaven standard is very nice. I’ve noticed that I’ve ignored it and all other reverbs since getting Cinematic Rooms Pro. Best to use the trials, figure out which one you like best on your tunes and wait for a sale.


Oh no, do not misunderstand me. I will definitely not buy 50723837646 reverbs in addition to my 5867264654 sample libraries. 
But it seems that in here there are the most folks on earth prone to compulsive hoarding. At least digitally. "Just another garage to store all my newspapers, erm, exhaust pipes, erm, sample libraries..." 

But to be honest, one real (hobbyist) killer like 7th Heaven Standard seems could be interesting enough to buy when it's on a realistic 50% sale. I will only test it thoroughly after I experimented with the lighthouses I already own (like some said).

As I played around with my tracks I came thus far just by using the built-in reverbs in most libs. They can be tweaked to sound somewhat similar to being in one room. More somewhat than similar. But for a noob like me...

Though it is as always. The more you learn the more you want to have. Hey, this thread convinced me (first time since I'm here) that I do not need _much_ more than I already have. So not another Blackhole for my money at least concerning reverbs. Phew! 



(but allow me only one little reverb for my hungry dullness, please)


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## widescreen (Apr 13, 2021)

X-Bassist said:


> It’s surprising people commonly ask about reverbs but never talk about what kind of music they do. Really makes a difference. I wouldn’t use the same reverbs in orchestral as I do in rock or metal or jazz. Some info would be helpful.


I've done that, in my 1st post.  "My music is a wider range between guitar/band stuff (from Shoegaze to Progmetal) to cinematic/orchestral stuff, gladly combined if it fits."



X-Bassist said:


> But get to know what you have. R4 and Neoverb is where I would start. R4 is a basic old school algo reverb that is straightforward to learn and use (check out videos) and will teach you the basics about how most reverbs work.


I have Groove3, so I am covered on these! Cool. 



X-Bassist said:


> Neoverb is the next gen reverb that can analyze the material and suggest a reverb (actually 2 reverbs combined) within the plugin. Then you can tweak to taste. Brilliant. Both these verbs can teach you a lot.


Ah, that seems to be a good onset for me to start since I have already some rudimentary experience in RX and Neutron. suggestions to give a starting point are often helpful.



X-Bassist said:


> But reverb is like strings, layering many works great (esp on orchestral work) and each gives a different flavor, So you may find eventually having a large variety gives you more versatility.


Oh no, one more thing to layer!  Don't go too far with me, I'm just learning to walk. Flying fighter planes comes later. 



X-Bassist said:


> But for now, learn R4 and Neoverb. 😄👍


That's better. I will.


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## widescreen (Apr 13, 2021)

Markrs said:


> You can covert the Waves IRs (.wir) to .wav format that can then be used by any convolution reverb plugin you want to use
> 
> You can get the Waves IR library here:
> 
> ...


Thank you so much, that saves me much time to research.


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## InLight-Tone (Apr 13, 2021)

Didn't know about that Wave Impulse response convertor. Thanks for that!


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## widescreen (Apr 13, 2021)

Holy crap, what did I expect to get when I asked my dumb question just 2 hours ago? I was in doubt my question was asked 50 times before.

But so much useful information even until now...

I remember a newbie saying "Shithole" to our forum the last days. He could not have been more wrong! I cannot appreciate enough the only outcome I got after *two hours*! 

You guys rock! I cannot imagine life anymore without real musicians around not only having answers to nearly every question. But making me feel just better.  

Something that had to be said after 8 months. 

(Just to compare: I started at the same time in a forum about watches (as I have a problem with one of mine). But after 3 trials I gave up. No useful information. Not even a single answer. But OK, guys with watches cannot make music. That seems the cause.)


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## BassClef (Apr 13, 2021)

storyteller said:


> No problem! You will love blackhole. It isn’t for use on everything, but when you discover its right use case, it is irreplaceable.
> 
> IR plugins are not really unique. It is the IRs that are unique. For example EastWest Spaces is an IR player with proprietary IRs. The same thing goes for the pricey Altiverb. If you want that sound, then you have to buy their plug-in. However, any IR plug-in should be able to playback generic IRs... so in that use case, they are all on an even playing field when it comes to 3rd party impulse responses.
> 
> You can grab Waves IR1 for $29-$39 pretty regularly. There is another plug-in by waves called IRL that is more often found in the $29 sale category, but it doesn’t offer independent early reflection control compared to its big brother. I’d skip that one and get IR1 between the two. Waves has been updating their plug-in GUIs, but these have t been touched yet... so they are a little dated visually, but will be updated soon I suspect.


So... Spaces IRs are proprietary and therefore WILL NOT work in other reverbs. But are you saying that generic IRs like those in the Waves plugins WILL WORK in Spaces?


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## storyteller (Apr 13, 2021)

BassClef said:


> So... Spaces IRs are proprietary and therefore WILL NOT work in other reverbs. But are you saying that generic IRs like those in the Waves plugins WILL WORK in Spaces?


Waves IRs are not "generic." They are supposed to be proprietary. It just happens that someone decided to create a tool to make them work in other IR plugins by converting them to a wav file. Basically, all IRs are WAVs... but each vendor takes steps to protect those from being made freely available to everyone. Apparently, Waves did not do a great job at encrypting their IRs.

IMHO, I think the "good energy" thing to do is make sure Waves gets their $29 for the IRs by buying their IR1. But that is just my opinion. I fully believe in keeping good energy flowing through to the creators of the tools you use.


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## dzilizzi (Apr 13, 2021)

BassClef said:


> So... Spaces IRs are proprietary and therefore WILL NOT work in other reverbs. But are you saying that generic IRs like those in the Waves plugins WILL WORK in Spaces?


I think they are talking about general IR's you can buy or find free around the web. There's a thread on free IR's somewhere - https://vi-control.net/community/threads/convolution-reverb-impulses.97010/


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## Markrs (Apr 13, 2021)

storyteller said:


> Waves IRs are not "generic." They are supposed to be proprietary. It just happens that someone decided to create a tool to make them work in other IR plugins by converting them to a wav file. Basically, all IRs are WAVs... but each vendor takes steps to protect those from being made freely available to everyone. Apparently, Waves did not do a great job at encrypting their IRs.
> 
> IMHO, I think the "good energy" thing to do is make sure Waves gets their $29 for the IRs by buying their IR1. But that is just my opinion. I fully believe in keeping good energy flowing through to the creators of the tools you use.


Just to say I do own Waves IR-L, I assumed you could only download the IR files if you had either IR-L or IR-1 but that doesn't seem to be the case.


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## storyteller (Apr 13, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Just to say I do own Waves IR-L, I assumed you could only download the IR files if you had either IR-L or IR-1 but that doesn't seem to be the case.


Ha. No worries! I didn't think twice about that. I mean, in theory, if Waves wanted to fully lock it down, they'd make it impossible to download without a purchase... but since they put everything in their installer, that would blow the installer up by 5 more gigs, which is why I assume they keep it separate. But, I figure it is good to buy IR1 or IRL at a minimum. And, if you do own it, you should be able to use those files in whatever way you desire with a converter. I really like IR1 though!


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## jcrosby (Apr 13, 2021)

widescreen said:


> As my first songs/pieces arise(d) while building the "perfect" template I come to refine them, especially with reverbs. I spared that totally until now as the ideas had first to be spilled. Perhaps someone can guide me being in my musical toddlerhood (though I'm a Middle Aged Man ).
> 
> Here's what I have in my collection so far:
> 
> ...


You have some great reverbs. I personally think you have more than enough... You don't need VH Room with what you have. It's a great reverb! But you totally have everything it can do covered with your existing reverbs...

Convolution's nice, but it's not necessary per se, basically depends on what you're after. I don't use it nearly as often as algorithmic... digital reverbs are much easier to mix as all impulses have some kind of modal information baked in that works on some stuff but doesn't always work on others... Really depends on the impulse. (You can pink noise it to smooth them out, but unless I stick to only a few impulses I know how to treat it's one more step in the mix I can avoid with a good algo reverb).

EDIT: Looks like you have NV, must have done a poor job skimming as I thought you said didn't... My bad.... The one thing I'll leave here about it is this:

I't based on R2/R4. Anyone who has EA reverbs already has the same algorithms... NV's also a CPU hog compared to the EA reverbs. Support told me months ago they would be updating it with CPU optimizations but they haven't yet... Given that it's still unclear how updates play out without a subscription I'm not personally holding my breath for one in the near future...


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