# Do you block ads on VI-C?



## Markrs (Sep 3, 2021)

Blocking ads came up on another thread and I have always chosen not to block them on here. The adverts are selected and not Google Ads which means they are unlikely to be scams and are likely to be very relevant. The other reason is that I want to support this forum and ensure it stays viable through advertising revenue.

I am curious if others do the same?


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## RogiervG (Sep 3, 2021)

I don't block ads on this site.
I support Mike by letting ads show in my browser. (and the ads are musical instrument related, so no problem for me)
Mike get's payed by advertisers, so he can host/maintain this forum from that income. Yes mike also owns his sample lib company, but this forum is not part of that business.
If the majority of users/visitors here block ads, i bet the advertisers will not want to pay the amount they do now, or not at all. And that could mean, either the forum goes behind a paywall for certain features (or fully) OR stops to exist. I've seen this happen a few times in the past with other forums.

One note though, 4 is a bit much imho. 2 would be better, one on top, on at the bottom or right side.


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## Double Helix (Sep 3, 2021)

I use AdBlock on my Firefox, but I think everything on VI-C is coming through; if not, I would not have known about Sunset Strings, for example, and certainly others.
Agree that the content of this forum is plenty valuable enough to me to allow the ads, and as @Markrs mentioned, the ads are for developers I might well have interest in.


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## Trash Panda (Sep 3, 2021)

I don't use Ad Blockers on sites that aren't over-the-top with them (pop ups that block the rest of the screen until you close it, endless videos, etc.).


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## RonOrchComp (Sep 3, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> I support Mike by letting ads show in my browser.


Letting ads show does not support Mike. Mike is going to have the same amount of ads up, and the same amount of revenue regardless of whether or not you block them. Furthermore, he will never know who is blocking and who is not. 

Blocking ads does not hinder Mike's ability to run the forum. Mike is going to have the same amount of ads up, and the same amount of revenue regardless of whether or not you block them.


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## Markrs (Sep 3, 2021)

RonOrchComp said:


> Letting ads show does not support Mike. Mike is going to have the same amount of ads up, and the same amount of revenue regardless of whether or not you block them. Furthermore, he will never know who is blocking and who is not.
> 
> Blocking ads does not hinder Mike's ability to run the forum. Mike is going to have the same amount of ads up, and the same amount of revenue regardless of whether or not you block them.


Not sure that makes sense, as with ads you track impressions, which is how many times they are loaded, which if you block them is zero. Plus he will earn money from click throughs which again require you to see the ads for you to click on them.

Only if companies get plenty of impressions and click throughs do they pay to advertise on a site, otherwise they use the money elsewhere


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## Giovanni dall Camera (Sep 3, 2021)

I LOVE blockinnig Youtube Ads! Before, I almost quit watching YouTube because it was so annoying. I hadn't thought it was that easy ...it woks for several months, now. My ad-blocker doesn't seem to block the ads on this site, though.


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## Markrs (Sep 3, 2021)

Giovanni dall Camera said:


> I LOVE blockinnig Youtube Ads!


I actually pay the premium subscription as I also hate YouTube ads. I could block them instead, but I use YouTube all the time and like that my subscription should mean some revenue to those I watch.


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## Giovanni dall Camera (Sep 3, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Not sure that makes sense, as with ads you track impressions, which is how many times they are loaded, which if you block them is zero. Plus he will earn money from click throughs which again require you to see the ads for you to click on them.
> 
> Only if companies get plenty of impressions and click throughs to they pay to advertise on a site, otherwise they use the money elsewhere


The most lucrative thing in the internet is data mining. I wouldn't be surprised, if that was the case here as well.


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## RogiervG (Sep 3, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Not sure that makes sense, as with ads you track impressions, which is how many times they are loaded, which if you block them is zero. Plus he will earn money from click throughs which again require you to see the ads for you to click on them.
> 
> Only if companies get plenty of impressions and click throughs to they pay to advertise on a site, otherwise they use the money elsewhere


yep, that how many ad systems work. Clicks and views/renders per vistor per month. Many allow pre pay (you buy x shows and x clicks) as advertiser. Not sure if VIC does advertiser paying after or before the month.

Secondly, sites are able to know which client has an ad blocker, many sites even have a popup when you do block ads. (ad blocker detected warning popup, with a kind request to disable it for that site)


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## Markrs (Sep 3, 2021)

Giovanni dall Camera said:


> The most lucrative thing in the internet is data mining. I wouldn't be surprised, if that was the case here as well.


Could be though, YouTube is notoriously expensive to run, more so than many other "social media" sites.


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## Giovanni dall Camera (Sep 3, 2021)

Well, I suppose you and I have a vastly different philosophy altogether here. You seem to think Google, Facebook, etc are your friend. I rather believe they are public enemy No 1. I wouldn't give them a dime!


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## gamma-ut (Sep 3, 2021)

RonOrchComp said:


> Letting ads show does not support Mike. Mike is going to have the same amount of ads up, and the same amount of revenue regardless of whether or not you block them. Furthermore, he will never know who is blocking and who is not.
> 
> Blocking ads does not hinder Mike's ability to run the forum. Mike is going to have the same amount of ads up, and the same amount of revenue regardless of whether or not you block them.


A lot depends on how the adblocking works and whether the ads are sold as per-impression, per-click or for a period of time. If an ad is blocked, it may or may not show as an impression - it depends on whether it blocks the adserver accesses or the displaying of the ads and how the Javascript in the ads or server code behaves if it is or isn't displayed. So, if ads are being sold on a per-impression basis then that is going to have an effect. Per-click obviously doesn't matter as you weren't going to click on them anyway (or maybe you were and that's why you're blocking them).

Also advertisers do monitor impression and click rates so sites that claim some visitor numbers per month that don't tally with the impressions they see compared to other sites will wind up getting penalised. Now this may not matter if adblocking rates are consistent within a market. But the idea that it has no effect on publishers is naïve to say the least.


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## RogiervG (Sep 3, 2021)

Giovanni dall Camera said:


> Well, I suppose it is a different approach you and I have. You seem to think Google, Facebook, etc are your friend. I rather believe they are public enemy No 1. I wouldn't give them a dime!


And yet, they likely know quite a bit about you, via data mining your friends, family etc...


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## Colin66 (Sep 3, 2021)

My browser blocks ads on every site I visit.


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## Giovanni dall Camera (Sep 3, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> And yet, they likely know quite a bit about you, via data mining your friends, family etc...


Sure! That is why I try to use alternatives as much as possible. I totally quit WhatsApp, I almost never use Facebook anymore and use alternative search engines. But I know they still track me quite a lot and that is why I think they are the biggest crime operations behind a legal facade in history. What can one man do about that? Well, at least he can choose to not give them money on top!


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## MartinH. (Sep 3, 2021)

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ADVERTISING ON VI-CONTROL







vi-control.net






Iirc the settings my adblocker has never blocked the banners here, but unblocking the whole site allows those amazon link embeds to actually be loaded. Otherwise no posted amazon links are visible at all.


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## Giovanni dall Camera (Sep 3, 2021)

Colin66 said:


> My browser blocks ads on every site I visit.


Tor?


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## Polkasound (Sep 3, 2021)

I use an ad blocker on my browser, and I run it all the time. I disable it on VI-Control, but now and then I will manually block an animated ad on VI-Control if the animation is annoying.


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## Colin66 (Sep 3, 2021)

Giovanni dall Camera said:


> Tor?


It's called Brave.


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## Markrs (Sep 3, 2021)

Colin66 said:


> It's called Brave.


Brave is a nice browser using Chromium as its base (same as google chrome) but has a lot of privacy built in. It also has Tor Onion built in for added privacy if you decide to use it.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 3, 2021)

Markrs said:


> I actually pay the premium subscription as I also hate YouTube ads. I could block them instead, but I use YouTube all the time and like that my subscription should mean some revenue to those I watch.


+1. No ads and the ability to listen to YT playlists while doing other things on my phone is worth it for me.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Sep 3, 2021)

I block everything everywhere.

I'm just not interested in ads. I don't buy anything based on advertising. And I'm not interested in being treated like this Piñata that's just there for everybody to throw their shit at. Not talking about just the internet either. It's just a point which our world is currently at where I personally need to tune out.


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## Colin66 (Sep 3, 2021)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I block everything everywhere.
> 
> I'm just not interested in ads. I don't buy anything based on advertising. And I'm not interested in being treated like this Piñata that's just there for everybody to throw their shit at. Not talking about just the internet either. It's just a point which our world is currently at where I personally need to tune out.


That's basically how I feel.


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## d.healey (Sep 3, 2021)

I use uBlock (sounds like something I'd call a plumber about). I have it disabled on VI-Control though, I like to see what the competition is up to


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## emilio_n (Sep 3, 2021)

I am ok with the ads on VI-C. I think are not too invasive and always related to the thematic of this forum. I can say that even sometimes they were useful to discover new things.
Even if I don't like the ads here, VI-C game a lot of info and fun during the last 2 years, so the minimum that I can do is keep the ads to support the job of Mike keeping this forum tidy and working.

I wouldn't say I like Youtube ads, mainly those you can't skip, but I think you can do only two ethical things about it: live with them or buy a premium subscription. I am not a fan of those big companies like Facebook or Google, but they are just business, not evil. If you use their services, you need to pay back for them. If you don't like them, use your data (I hate it) or send annoying advertisements all the time, pay a fee to avoid or don't use it. As @Markrs pointed, the cost of these services are quite expensive, so saying you will not pay a dime for them and you will find a way to avoid the ads for free, to me look like you say, "The other stupids users will pay for me, I am smarter than them."


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Sep 3, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> the cost of these services are quite expensive, so saying you will not pay a dime for them and you will find a way to avoid the ads for free, to me look like you say, "The other stupids users will pay for me, I am smarter than them."


No, it's saying "you figure your shit out". If it doesn't pay, maybe do something that does. Nobody asks me how I'm gonna pay my rent. In fact, nobody asks millions of full time employed people out there whether their monthly salary actually covers for all their basic expenses. I gotta figure out my shit myself. I'm sure these big tech companies like FB & Google will manage.


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## MikeK (Sep 3, 2021)

I block ads throughout most of the Internet, but I don’t here. And it wasn’t really a conscious decision. I’m sure if my ad blocker blocked them automatically here, I would have voted Yes.

But what I’ve found is that, without thought, I don’t look at the ads. When I’m here, I’m focused on the center of the screen where the content is. I’m aware there are ads on the top, side and bottom, but my gaze rarely goes there.

I think that’s just a simple thing where a lot of us get trained to put our focus on what’s important to us whether that’s when driving or being on websites. Although I appreciate that’s not as simple for some, especially the flashing ads.

And as far as buying stuff, I’m drawn more to a discussion about a product that somebody loves and is talking about here, or even a company that is posting information about their product.


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## NekujaK (Sep 3, 2021)

My VI-C browsing is pretty much split 50-50 between my PC and iPad. The PC is stringently clamped down with every sort of ad blocker, tracker remover, etc. at all times, so no VI-C ads. But the iPad is more open and VI-C ads freely display.

I don't mind the VI-C ads (except for bright animated ones) because they are narrowly targeted at my specific area of interest.


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## RonOrchComp (Sep 3, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Plus he will earn money from click throughs


Really? The owner of a forum makes money from the ads being displayed AND from members who click on those ads? I did not know that.


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## el-bo (Sep 3, 2021)

I use Brave Browser, which I trust to take care of the most heinous affronts to my internet enjoyment. 

What it leaves, in most cases, is fine by me. Certainly on VI-C, the horizontal top and bottom banners are perfectly unobtrusive, as are the side-bar adverts. More importantly, it's all in-line with and supportive of the community, at large. Things start to become problematic when I see adverts related to my Amazon searches thrown all over the screen. Not having to always level-up 3rd-party Adblockers to deal with this type of thing is seemingly one of the benefits of Brave.


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## Markrs (Sep 3, 2021)

RonOrchComp said:


> Really? The owner of a forum makes money from the ads being displayed AND from members who click on those ads? I did not know that.


In the case of VI-C it looks like the advert system is based on a flat fee rather than views or clicks (most ad systems are based on views and click throughs).





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ADVERTISING ON VI-CONTROL







vi-control.net





However most companies only pay for the advertising, because of the views and click throughs. If they didn't get those they wouldn't advertise.


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## gamma-ut (Sep 3, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Things start to become problematic when I see adverts related to my Amazon searches thrown all over the screen.


I find those things useful intelligence. Who is buying targeting? Who is letting them? And are they any good at it? I find it entertaining to be followed around by ads for sheds whenever I go to a particular retailer in the UK (and supplier of sheds). I do not and have never needed a shed.


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## Giovanni dall Camera (Sep 3, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> I wouldn't say I like Youtube ads, mainly those you can't skip, but I think you can do only two ethical things about it: live with them or buy a premium subscription. I am not a fan of those big companies like Facebook or Google, but they are just business, not evil. If you use their services, you need to pay back for them. If you don't like them, use your data (I hate it) or send annoying advertisements all the time, pay a fee to avoid or don't use it. As @Markrs pointed, the cost of these services are quite expensive, so saying you will not pay a dime for them and you will find a way to avoid the ads for free, to me look like you say, "The other stupids users will pay for me, I am smarter than them."


If not paying and blocking ads could bring Google down on its knees, I would celebrate and encourage everyone to join in the effort! Unfortunately, it will only slightly reduce their exorbitant profits.

And regarding not using their services: you don't really know what you are talking about, here! First, you do not really stop them from mis-using your data by paying for any of their services. You just stop some commercials you can also stop with ad-blockers. And also, there barely is any way to avoid google these days! You may opt out of some of their services. But, if you have any kind business for example, chances are high that these days you can hardly lead it without using google services like google ad words. Also, you are continuously being tracked by them, even if you avoid their services knowingly. In my case, the data they gathered from me before I even got aware of them will suffice to predict my actions for many years to come with a frightning accuracy.

Did you know that with 500 data nodes (e.g. a like on Facebook) their algorithms figure out things and predict your decisions that otherwise only your wife could? Guess how many data nodes they have from most people? I'll leave it at that, but it always terrifies me, how few people actually know about these dangers!


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## el-bo (Sep 3, 2021)

gamma-ut said:


> I find those things useful intelligence. Who is buying targeting? Who is letting them? And are they any good at it? I find it entertaining to be followed around by ads for sheds whenever I go to a particular retailer in the UK (and supplier of sheds). I do not and have never needed a shed.


I've spent many a hilarious night getting stoned in sheds on the forecourts of various UK retailers. And I be they make very good small studio setups


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## Mike Greene (Sep 3, 2021)

There is an option when posting polls where we can see who voted each way. Unfortunately, Markrs didn't enable it, so I can't see who to ban!!! 

I've tried to be pretty careful with the ads, so they don't get too obtrusive. (Although ironically, there seems to be a quirk where poll threads - like this one - have three sidebar ads, instead of the one skinny sidebar ad that normal threads have.) Still, we run fewer ads than Gearslutz and a _lot_ fewer than KVR.

When I bought the forum four years ago, there was only a single top banner ad. Ad income at that time was a little over $25k/year. (At the time, people thought it was a lot more, but I can tell you for sure that it wasn't.) Expenses aren't too bad, but the forum requires a surprisingly large amount of time to run, and ... I hesitate to say this, but I found myself resenting the time it was taking away from my "real" jobs (Realitone and composing.)

For that matter, not to dredge up old history, but I think this time/reward ratio was at the core of why Frederick kinda lost it at the end. The people here are totally cool, mind you, which mostly makes it worth the effort. But it's still tough to put in a lot of hours every week that could have been spent more profitably. In my own case, it literally caused release delays with Realitone, which was tough to think about. (For those not around at the time, I did *not* buy the forum because I wanted another business. I bought the forum because it was in trouble, and it was a short list of who could do anything about it.)

So I added a few more ad positions, raised the rates, and hired someone to handle the ads, so I now feel good about things, to the point where I've actually told advertisers they don't need to feel obligated to "support the forum" with their ads.

I mention that because I've tried to make the ads more relevant. For instance, the "Feature ad" (the 500x80 ad at the very top) is intended for new releases or significant sales. Granted, I make extra money off of it, but I think it's helpful for advertisers to be able to choose when their ads get seen a lot. In the same way, you may have noticed that at times, certain ads get displayed a lot more than the other ads. (Like OT's Miroire ads last week.) That's an option we give advertisers, so their ads can be more effective (for them) and relevant (to you.) We also give boosts for a few days (for free) when regular advertisers have a new release or sale.

Don't get me wrong, I'm making a bunch of money off of these ads, so I won't pretend it's all just about me being Mr. Nice Guy. But I really am trying to make the ads useful for both developers and members.

With all that said, I've been very fortunate in my career, and if the ad impressions go down a bit because of ad blockers, I'll still be able to keep gas in the Corvette and electricity in the Tesla.  So if people want to use ad blockers, that's totally fine. Really, it is. But as people have already said, the ads here can be pretty useful, even as reminders, so speaking for myself (as a member), even if my own clicks didn't add a few pennies to my bank account, I'd still leave them unblocked.

One last thought - to the people who don't block because they want to support the forum and/or me, I really appreciate that. Again, I'll be fine financially either way, so don't feel obligated. But I love the sentiment. Not to get all sentimental, but the people here are great, because we're such a community and care about each other, and that's what kept me going when the forum wasn't making much money.


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## Markrs (Sep 3, 2021)

@Mike Greene $25K is not very much income in profit for the time you have to spend running a forum like this, I can see how it wasn't something you were necessarily looking to do. I hope the income is now a better balance.

This forum is really special. It is easily the most caring and considerate forum I have been on. It feels so different to the other music forum. Even when user just post an intro, which are ignored on most sites, users on here will comment and welcome the person.


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