# Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra



## Fleer

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/community/spitfire-audio-events/
Any ideas?


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## Michael Antrum

Their biggest announcement to date.....

Perhaps it's the promised update to the SSO. I don't see it being just anther library launch with a statement like that....


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## Normqn

Michael Antrum said:


> Their biggest announcement to date.....
> 
> Perhaps it's the promised update to the SSO. I don't see it being just anther library launch with a statement like that....


A Live Keynote to talk about an update on pre-existing libraries ?

I don't see the point of doing that


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## Zedcars

A subscription based service?

They actually put together a music album called “This is London Calling” released last year. It’s on every streaming service going. No idea if this announcement is connected with that album in some way.


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## Michael Antrum

Well, I got the impression, maybe mistakenly, that the update will be in the new Spitfire Player. Perhaps this might indicate a move away from Kontakt for some their big libraries.

After all, SSO is their flagship product....

But its all speculation, I know.


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## Michael Antrum

Zedcars said:


> A subscription based service?
> 
> They actually put together a music album called “This is London Calling” released last year. It’s on every streaming service going. No idea if this announcement is connected with that album in some way.




I've never heard of that album before. That is interesting. 

However, someone from Spitfire Support scotched rumours of a subscription service only a couple of days ago....


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## Morning Coffee

An update to Albion III Iceni?

Apparently the line "This is London calling", was used during WWII.


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## Gerbil

A Jason Statham narrated walkthrough about how 'Shit Bollocks Scramble' was composed.


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## Zedcars

Morning Coffee said:


> An update to Albion III Iceni?
> 
> Apparently the line "This is London calling", was used during WWII.


Yeah, it was an opening phrase used in radio broadcasts by the BBC World Service often targeting people in occupied countries. (It was also a punishable offence to listen if the Nazis caught you).

Also, it’s obviously an album by the Clash.


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## Normqn

Zedcars said:


> Yeah, it was an opening phrase used in radio broadcasts by the BBC World Service often targeting people in occupied countries. (It was also a punishable offence to listen if the Nazis caught you).
> 
> Also, it’s obviously an album by the Clash.


I think the sentence is just catchy for teasing and in reference of WWII because the company is called "Spitfire".
There is more things to say about "Biggest announcement to date"


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## jamwerks

I'd imagine that it will be the release (with updates) of several of their older products (SCS?) on their SF Player!


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## Vik

jamwerks said:


> I'd imagine that it will be the release (with updates) of several of their older products (SCS?) on their SF Player!


The would make sense.... and/or they have been updating the player with functions SSS/SCS and the other SF libraries don't have in the Kontakt versions.


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## Ozan Colakoglu

Michael Antrum said:


> Their biggest announcement to date.....
> 
> Perhaps it's the promised update to the SSO. I don't see it being just anther library launch with a statement like that....


My bet is on subscription


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## Morning Coffee

Ozan Colakoglu said:


> My bet is on subscription




Or, conscription!


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## Mornats

Spitfire: We're not doing a subscription.
Everyone at VI-control: It's a subscription.

Maybe it's something else folks...


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## jonathanwright

Morning Coffee said:


> An update to Albion III Iceni?
> 
> Apparently the line "This is London calling", was used during WWII.



And there's me thinking it was when the results of Eurovision are read out.


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## markleake

Ozan Colakoglu said:


> My bet is on subscription


They literally just said they don't intend to do subscriptions 2 days ago. See this linked post...






Spitfire's Inevitable Subscription: How Upset Will You Be?


The subscription model, like credit, makes us obedient wage slaves, dare we miss a payment?!?



vi-control.net


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## jamwerks

If they ever do a subscription, it will probably be later on (2021?) when their complete catalogue is ported to and running on their own SF Player.


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## Mr. Edinburgh

subscription model - gotta be must soon


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## Zedcars

A sample rendering farm and localised app that allows remote control and streaming of any of their samples via servers and then you pay for the stereo (or surround) master?

I dunno, probably talking a load of rubbish...


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## Living Fossil

Fleer said:


> https://www.spitfireaudio.com/community/spitfire-audio-events/
> Any ideas?




I hope it's a serious bug-fixing for their existing libraries.
Maybe they will even add staccato articulations for the Symphonic String library and usable shorts.
That would be terrific.


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## Zee

A new Albion maybe ? it's been a while


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## Denkii

Maybe the official announcement for the roadmap for their products to stop supporting Kontakt and merge over to their own platform, starting with the comeback of Albion II.


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## ProfoundSilence

Morning Coffee said:


> An update to Albion III Iceni?
> 
> Apparently the line "This is London calling", was used during WWII.




Better yet they'll actually sample a Spitfire with 220 round Robins

On a serious note when can we start putting real money on a bet that it's a subscription service


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## shnootre

Great company. Most annoying PR ever tho.


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## jbuhler

If I had to guess: SSO Pro, ported to new player, maybe re-modularized to allow purchase of individual instruments/mic positions. I really can’t see a subscription service until they have a lot more of their catalog ported to the player. But who knows?


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## CoffeeLover

Its gonna be a creative media Linux OS specially designed to handle audio and video application 
and all the other vendors will follow up and design their product for Spitfire Linux OS
it will be stability heaven for all
and it will have the brand new spitfire sampler installed with every Labs instruments 
and try before buy/rent an instrument
it will have all the features Kontakt has 
and their new Air Reverb.


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## Akarin

My guesses:

- Subscription service 
- Leaving Kontakt
- More short articulations for their strings libs
- A "per patch" store (as in "buy only the violas from SSS)


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## Morning Coffee

It must be something drastic because the email says, "Our biggest announcement to date".


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## fiestared

Maybe it has something to do with the UK status in Europe


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## Lionel Schmitt

Spitfire posts "London is calling - biggest announcement yet" - a few hours later we reached page 2 at Vi-Control. haha. :D 
Well, I'll help it to the 3. My guess/hope is: HANS ZIMMER BRASS!!!!!


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## Zedcars

Christian said this on Twitter:

“This is going to be an historic shift for the craft of sampleism.”

Must be something directly sample related. Some kind of new sample/physical modelling hybrid?


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## robgb

Leaving Kontakt. Which I think is a mistake.


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## mikeh-375

fiestared said:


> Maybe it has something to do with the UK status in Europe



It's a plea for help, perhaps a charity for the UK.....we'll need it.


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## Sarah Mancuso

I don't think they're going to spend the entire month of August hyping up an announcement that they're shifting to their own engine, since they've already been shifting to their own engine for quite a while now.

"Historic shift for the craft of sampleism" also implies this is something they consider more significant than an existing product update or rerelease.


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## DavidY

ProfoundSilence said:


> Better yet they'll actually sample a Spitfire with 220 round Robins


I do love the sound of a Merlin engine...


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## fiestared

fiestared said:


> Maybe it has something to do with the UK status in Europe


They'll move to......... Your choice...


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## mikeh-375

fiestared said:


> They'll move to......... Your choice.....



They'll move to Dysons £43 million pad in Singapore. Naaahh these boys are Spitfire and if the name means anything, they'll save us all again, just like 1940.
[/QUOTE]


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## Mornats

Zedcars said:


> Christian said this on Twitter:
> 
> “This is going to be an historic shift for the craft of sampleism.”
> 
> Must be something directly sample related. Some kind of new sample/physical modelling hybrid?



Christian is quite keen on helping us get into sampling (see the Piano Book project as an example). It could be something to do with helping us publish our home-grown libraries maybe?

I'd love to see their engine opened up for general use to help budding samplists find their feet in the industry. The Photosynthesis engine is good but requires full Kontakt, as does the Project Chaos engine so I think we're missing something that everyone could use in this area.

Either that or a subscription


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## ridgero

John Williams Composer Toolkit plz


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## Consona

ridgero said:


> John Williams Composer Toolkit plz


And what would that contain? An extremely playable sampled version of every section?


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## thereus

I am guessing a whole new Symphonic library series featuring Simon Rattle and the LSO. You heard it here first.


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## Tice

A subscription service makes sense after releasing their whole repertoir in one package.


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## GingerMaestro

It's saying "Keynote" so probably announcing various things, much like Orchestral Tools at the beginning of this year. Also probably a while before they roll out whatever they announce...Great Marketing though..


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## Mornats

Tice said:


> A subscription service makes sense after releasing their whole repertoir in one package.



Their "Everything" collection has been out for years.


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## ptram

I don't know what it is. But I know that before evening I’ll be hard pressed to spend the money I don't have.

Paolo


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## TomislavEP

I've learned to take their announcements _cum grano salis _a long time ago, but in this case I agree that it is probably about the major policy change rather than a new product, per se. Most likely subscription service and / or complete departure from Kontakt and Kontakt Player in favor of the new engine. Personally, I'm not keen to either of these.

On the other hand, maybe they're planning a "big gift" for us, but this time in a true sense of the word.  _(Fat chance of that..)_


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## Floris

So, let's do some _digging_ to see what this little teaser might reveal.

The first hint is the text: This is London calling.
A quick search finds
"The words 'This is London Calling …' were used by the BBC World Service during WWII as part of its broadcast to occupied countries."

The BBC link is also in the image's title: Auntie. An informal name for the BBC. Maybe just the name for the inspiration for the quote, _maybe more..._

If you want to be more obscure, conspiracy-style, there was also a _monthly _magazine inspired of it. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Calling_(magazine))

What does this mean? Probably nothing at all! _(Or does it...) ://_

Anyone by chance know what the background of the quote is? I brightened it up a lot and it looks to be a microphone, but perhaps someone can link it to something more.


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## ptram

Maybe they have become the official suppliers of samples for the BBC!

The mic grid seems to recall the typical broadcast mics.

Paolo


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## Zedcars

Floris said:


> So, let's do some _digging_ to see what this little teaser might reveal.
> 
> The first hint is the text: This is London calling.
> A quick search finds
> "The words 'This is London Calling …' were used by the BBC World Service during WWII as part of its broadcast to occupied countries."
> 
> The BBC link is also in the image's title: Auntie. An informal name for the BBC. Maybe just the name for the inspiration for the quote, _maybe more..._
> 
> If you want to be more obscure, conspiracy-style, there was also a _monthly _magazine inspired of it. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Calling_(magazine))
> 
> What does this mean? Probably nothing at all! _(Or does it...) ://_
> 
> Anyone by chance know what the background of the quote is? I brightened it up a lot and it looks to be a microphone, but perhaps someone can link it to something more.


It’s actually a fly’s eye. The sample library will be insect based featuring a solo bumble bee and an angry arachnid (yeah, I know spiders aren’t technically insects!).


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## Alex Fraser

Maybe SF should add “not a subscription” in the thread title..


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## Zero&One

markleake said:


> They literally just said they don't intend to do subscriptions 2 days ago. See this linked post...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire's Inevitable Subscription: How Upset Will You Be?
> 
> 
> The subscription model, like credit, makes us obedient wage slaves, dare we miss a payment?!?
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



Keep this bumped. At least for the next 89 pages until 28th


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## Zero&One

My guess, maybe a collaboration/partnership with another company overseas. Hence the "This is London calling.."


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## cqd

Didn't they suggest a couple of months ago that whatever was coming this summer would actually be a game changer..

So it's hardly just a new library is it?


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## fiestared

Seriously, I think they'll split the company, one for the sampling world, maybe now with their own studio and their own plugin, and the second one will be a kind of "production and edition" company, dealing more with the talents. This could be ingenious, you sell tools and you sell the results of these tools... very smart and everything is done by good and honest people that we love... If it's the case, A sincere GOOD luck to them !


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## Michel Simons

If I had one I would bet my third testicle that it will be a subscription service, in spite of the fact that they themselves have said that this is not going to happen in the foreseeable future. I am just going to ignore that and stick to the subscription service. Yes, I am pretty sure that it is going to be a subscription service. It's as clear as the fact that that Kate Perry song is a complete rip-off from what's his name's song.

And btw, the earth is flat.


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## Robert_G

michelsimons said:


> If I had one I would bet my third testicle that it will be a....



Gambling a testicle you dont have is meaningless. Lets see you gamble your second testicle....then youll have our attention.


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## Alex Fraser

Alright, I’ll shoot. 
“Spitfire London Orchestra”, a new flagship orchestra library. Released in modular sections over the next few years. Price decrease for the exiting symphony line. 

Long shot..


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## Floris

I hear a lot of people still thinking it's a subscription, but I seriously doubt it given that they said 'no intentions' a few days ago, as well as supposedly being in the planning for a long time.


Some of my speculation, some a bit out of the box or unrealistic, but what might be cool is:
-Hardware: A Spitfire keyboard/controller that's tailored to their libraries.
-Software? A mini-daw/sampling platform to make and share your own samples.
-A big change to their old libraries: moved to their new sampler platform, ditching Kontakt.
-A new library? What would be really 'a new chapter the history of sampling' in this area?


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## Hanu_H

Yeah I am pretty sure it's not the subscription service. I think it could be that they are ditching Kontakt and moving everything to their own sampler. Or maybe it is a collaboration with another sample dev? Jumping on board with The Orchestral Tools and their upcoming sample player? Or doing something with VSL and their player? Maybe they think that they have sampled everything that they want to sample at AIR and are starting a new symphonic line in a different hall in Central Europe?


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## jneebz

robgb said:


> Leaving Kontakt. Which I think is a mistake.


Totally agree. I think the fact that they asked about which sampler is preferred in the survey speaks to their wavering on taking the big step away from Kontakt.


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## PaulBrimstone

After his Radio 3 appearance, CH has done a deal with the Beeb for a Spitfire radio show, or the Spitfire Broadcasting Company. Either that or it's a bloody Churchillian Dunkirk-spirit fight-them-on-the-beaches Brexit sample library—mostly winds.


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## mikeh-375

Robert_G said:


> Gambling a testicle you dont have is meaningless. Lets see you gamble your second testicle....then youll have our attention.



yeah but Rob, which one is number 2 ?


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## Bluemount Score

Fleer said:


> https://www.spitfireaudio.com/community/spitfire-audio-events/
> Any ideas?


I've called the Cow Bell library long time ago


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## Bluemount Score

Mornats said:


> Spitfire: We're not doing a subscription.
> Everyone at VI-control: It's a subscription.
> 
> Maybe it's something else folks...


Seriously, where is this idea even coming from? It's not that common at all in the sample world.


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## Robert_G

mikeh-375 said:


> yeah but Rob, which one is number 2 ?



The one that hangs the lowest.....


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## Zero&One

Robert_G said:


> The one that hangs the lowest.....



Can't shift that image from my mind now!


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## rudi

A partnership / cooperation with a larger company?


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## Michael Antrum

Aliens, its definitely something to do with aliens..... and subscription..... possibly Brexit. Have they sampled Boris Johnson ?


Seriously though, I bet the Spitfire crew are pissing themselves laughing reading this thread.....


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## Geoff Grace

Well, if we're going to make _crazy_ predictions, I'll predict that Spitfire are going to retire all their libraries; and we'll have the rest of the calendar year to buy them all at 50% off before they're gone forever.

Best,

Geoff


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## Wolf68

I am so bored from these unsubstantial announcents.


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## ag75

Wolf68 said:


> I am so bored from these unsubstantial announcents.
> 
> I love that they do these. It gets everyone talking and excited. I mean here we are 4 pages deep talking about their company. It’s F’n brilliant.


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## jamwerks

It's possible they'll offer their Player to host other dev's products, kind of a competitor to Kontakt. I always found it a bit strange that both SF & OT announced a proprietary player at roughly the same time. Are they one and the same?


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## ManicMiner

Michael Antrum said:


> I've never heard of that album before. That is interesting.
> However, someone from Spitfire Support scotched rumours of a subscription service only a couple of days ago....


I would love to see a subscription service, but I dont think Spitfire would go for that.
Too many people have too many of their libraries. It might not go down well with people who have paid a high price to own their libs. 
I'd personally like to see it as I only have A1, but I can't see them doing it.


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## VinRice

Gee, I wonder if it's a subscription service? NO ITS BLOODY NOT. Keep up people.

Maybe increased modularity - buy what you need a la Orchestral Tools? (if it ever sees the light of day)

They finalised the purchase of Air Studios?

Biggest announcement, not biggest library, so it's probably something structural.

Bought by Avid? (shoot me now)

50% retrospective discount? (my God I'd be rich)

Whatever, a month's pre-hype is a bit much even by Spitfire standards.


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## Zedcars

So is it a subscription service or not?


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## Jdiggity1

Zedcars said:


> So is it a subscription service or not?


It's inevitable


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## VinRice

Zedcars said:


> So is it a subscription service or not?



Probably.


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## Akarin

Mornats said:


> Christian is quite keen on helping us get into sampling (see the Piano Book project as an example). It could be something to do with helping us publish our home-grown libraries maybe?
> 
> I'd love to see their engine opened up for general use to help budding samplists find their feet in the industry. The Photosynthesis engine is good but requires full Kontakt, as does the Project Chaos engine so I think we're missing something that everyone could use in this area.
> 
> Either that or a subscription



Opening up their engine to other developers could be something. It would be on par with Christian's tweet...


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## jamwerks

People keep repeating the thing about SF going substription. Are there any Kontakt based libraries anywhere that work on subscription? Is that even possible?


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## thereus

If they do insist on teasing a month in advance to get everybody speculating, they can’t really complain when people do. I‘ve heard that they are branching out into selling subscriptions to a new fine wine delivery service.


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## Michael Antrum

Definitely subscription.....








Not


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## Zoot_Rollo

mikeh-375 said:


> yeah but Rob, which one is number 2 ?


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## redlester

Regarding the popular opinion of them ditching Kontakt, it says in the FAQ for Orbis, released only a couple of weeks ago, that they will be continuing to make Kontakt libraries.


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## jaketanner

It's probably going to be the pro version of the symphonic line. I doubt that it will be a subscription...as much as I'd like it to be...unless it's a subscription based off their own player...similar to what EW has, although I think they'd probably lose money. EW did it after they've started dying out...no one was buying their decade old libraries, so why not go subscription in that case...but SF is still very relevant. 

I would however, hate it very much if they hype this BIG announcement and it turns out to be something like another collaboration.


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## constaneum

if it's another new line of symphonic libraries, probably they might make the move like OT ? For example, retiring the old Berlin Woodwinds at lower price (probably half price) and then totally replace it with Berlin Woodwinds 2?


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## Kony

Maybe something to do with this?









Fears zoning dispute may leave London music training project 'homeless'


Tileyard Impact, based in King’s Cross, is in conflict with council about a permanent base




www.theguardian.com





Edit: probably not but the timing of this Tileyard news is interesting


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## kinotone

It's going to be a sausage library. Non-GMO of course. Eventually a full library of meat will be released.


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## Land of Missing Parts

Zedcars said:


> it’s obviously an album by the Clash.


Interesting, I've never heard of this album.
So...subscription, right?


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## Denkii

An open platform for anyone to publish their samples and/or custom patches for the community. Directly downloadable within the software.


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## Random Guy

Hans Zimmer Strings 2?


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## constaneum

Random Guy said:


> Hans Zimmer Strings 2?



rather have Hans Zimmer Brass first? no ?


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## Braveheart

As a recent example of over-the-top hyping, there's Plugin Alliance just a month ago. 

They announced something revolutionary, with "your deal of a lifetime".

It ended up being subscription...


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## NoamL

thereus said:


> If they do insist on teasing a month in advance to get everybody speculating, they can’t really complain when people do. I‘ve heard that they are branching out into selling subscriptions to a new fine wine delivery service.



Collaboration with Alan Silvestri incoming!


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## NoamL

As my serious guess I agree it's likely something that's some kind of upgrade or mod to all their existing libraries. But more likely to be "We're moving all our libraries to the Spitfire player!" than "We're moving all our libraries to a subscription service."


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## Land of Missing Parts

My guess is they're buying VI Control and they'll turn that into a subscription service that uses ILOK, and will ban any negative comments about HZ, and will force you to connect your DAW to the internet by slowing the download speeds of their libraries so they can put only the libraries you bought for full price on flash sale.


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## SoNowWhat?

Zoot_Rollo said:


>


*fires up Iron Maiden*...


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## Tice

Maybe they're moving their HQ into mainland Europe ahead of the brexit debacle. "This is London calling: Spitfire please come back!...". hahaha.


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## joeunsoo

Zedcars said:


> A subscription based service?
> 
> They actually put together a music album called “This is London Calling” released last year. It’s on every streaming service going. No idea if this announcement is connected with that album in some way.





maybe it's Albion III(maybe II+III). ICENI TRAILER said This is London calling.
or collection containing Albion III + BT Phobos + HZ01/02 + SSW and something



same the First song in music album “This is London Calling“


I found same sound demo songs 1/2/5/6/7/8

1. This Is London Calling(Christian Henson) - [Albion III Iceni] Trailer Music
2. Anti Clockwise(Christian Henson) - [BT Phobos] Mayhem
3. Piccadilly Circus(Audio Android & Red Earth)
4. Her Majesty’s Pleasure(Audio Android & Red Earth)
5. Shit Bollocks Scramble(Christian Henson) - [HZ01/HZ02] RAISE THE ALARM
6. Pea Soup(Oliver Patrice Weder) - [BT Phobos] The Fallen
7. Hard Chees(Paul Thomson) - [HZ01] HZ01 Countdown
8. Under the Arches(Oliver Patrice Weder) - [SSW] Symphonic Woodwinds Teaser


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## givemenoughrope

Here’s to hoping it’s 50-100 more articulations added to Sable/Chamber Strings...bc otherwise blah


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## Mornats

Maybe they don't know what they're going to announce yet and they're just going to pick the best one from this thread.


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## Lionel Schmitt

Random Guy said:


> Hans Zimmer Strings 2?


Hans Zimmer Strings 2 with... what?
Well, at least some softly brushed col legno harmonic con sordino tremolos must be included!


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## avocado89

Olafur Arnalds posted a photo from inside Spitfire HQ to his instagram story a few days ago. Could have something to do with that? Another collaboration with him would be amazing!


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## brynolf

fiestared said:


> Maybe it has something to do with the UK status in Europe


Yeah, they're probably gonna beat back ze Germanz. With a sample engine of their own, is my guess.


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## blue book

Zedcars said:


> A subscription based service?
> 
> They actually put together a music album called “This is London Calling” released last year. It’s on every streaming service going. No idea if this announcement is connected with that album in some way.




There's more than one such Spitfire album:








SPITFIRE AUDIO | Extreme Music


Quintessentially British Hybrid Electro-Classical Scores Crafted by England's Gold-Standard Sound-Smiths Spitfire Audio




www.extrememusic.com





Spitfire's composers all over these. And the page references Spitfire Audio as being a label. Agree with Mornats, this looks like Spitfire getting into music publishing and maybe not just from their in-house composers but also from budding composers too. Spitfire could then not only make sample libraries but also publish production music made using those same sample libraries. That might qualify as being a historic shift.


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## N.Caffrey

Floris said:


> So, let's do some _digging_ to see what this little teaser might reveal.
> 
> The first hint is the text: This is London calling.
> A quick search finds
> "The words 'This is London Calling …' were used by the BBC World Service during WWII as part of its broadcast to occupied countries."
> 
> The BBC link is also in the image's title: Auntie. An informal name for the BBC. Maybe just the name for the inspiration for the quote, _maybe more..._
> 
> If you want to be more obscure, conspiracy-style, there was also a _monthly _magazine inspired of it. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Calling_(magazine))
> 
> What does this mean? Probably nothing at all! _(Or does it...) ://_
> 
> Anyone by chance know what the background of the quote is? I brightened it up a lot and it looks to be a microphone, but perhaps someone can link it to something more.



I think you're right, my money is on this. Does the BBC have an orchestra of their own? If so maybe something together with them?


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## Mornats

Yeah, the BBC Symphony Orchestra. They're quite good too.


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## Kony

Plus the BBC Philharmonic


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## CT

N.Caffrey said:


> I think you're right, my money is on this. Does the BBC have an orchestra of their own? If so maybe something together with them?



Christian did mention something about their biggest collaboration yet a while ago. I couldn't think of an individual that would fit that description, but the BBC might....


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## Mornats

I'm Paul Thompson, and I'm very excited to announce our latest collaboration. This is the BBC Proms Toolkit.


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## yellowtone

What are folks thoughts on purchases of Spitfire libraries before the announcement? I just purchased my first SF libraries a couple weeks ago (Albion V and Sound Dust Vol. 1) which I am really enjoying. I see that Albion IV is now on sale and am tempted. But if Spitfire launches either 1) a new sample engine, moving away from Kontakt and potentially adding new functionality exclusive to their new engine, or 2) a subscription service, I see the potential for being very dissapointed in my recent purchases or new ones. Any thoughts?


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## Alex Fraser

To reiterate CH on Twitter: "_This is a massive chapter marker in the history of sampling."_
So this might narrow it down to a new product line, something to do with the Spitfire player or even some sort of massive crowd sourced sampling project. It doesn't sound like a label or subscription service. Still, I like a good tease.

To stop me thinking about this and enable me to actually get on with some proper work today, here are my random brain farts. Some my own, some developed from previous posts.

*Subscription.* I think this one is dead and buried for now. Clearly it's a subscription and the more Spitfire deny it, the more it becomes reality.  <Dons tin hat.>

*Everything to Spitfire Player.* Would be nice, but I'm struggling to see the actual commercial benefit for Spitfire, at least in the short/medium term. Consider too the codebase that'll needed to be ported over and recent Kontakt releases. Perhaps if it was coupled with an OT type modular store then it might have legs?

*They've brought Air.* My own particular far fetched fantasy. Probably safe to ignore.

*New "Spitfire Sampler"* - a free, cross platform sampling plugin complete with associated store/upload facilities. Crowd sourced samples, new home for Labs. Not my idea, but an idea from the thread which sounds rather tasty.

*"Spitfire London Orchestra"* - Spitfire going "back to the start" and "re-imagining" how the orchestra should be sampled. Deeeeeply sampled, a huge collection of mic placements. Spitfire Power Legato™. This would be the new flagship product line, exclusively in the Spitfire Player. First Violins released immediately, the rest over the coming months/years. The new A-List standard. This is where my own bet is, but only because I love the title and want the existing symphony line to descend into my budget and sweaty clutch. Far fetched.

For clarity, I'm not particular wedded to any of these ideas. No doubt with nearly 3 weeks of buildup and such a bold statement, it'll be a biggie. I do think it'll be related to the tech or product line though.

My 2c anyhow.
A


----------



## SpitfireSupport

yellowtone said:


> 1) a new sample engine, moving away from Kontakt and potentially adding new functionality exclusive to their new engine, or 2) a subscription service, I see the potential for being very disappointed in my recent purchases or new ones. Any thoughts?



With an announcement like this, we will leave you to guess what it is until we actually announce it but I do want to answer the occasional concern like this.

1) We already release some products in our own plugin and occasionally we move a product over to our own plugin (Fragile, Woodwind and Angular Evolutions are an example) where that happens, we offer free updates to people if there is no additional content and an upgrade path where there is (Orbis for example which borrowed content from Fanshawe Earth Encounters)

2) As I stated in another thread (admittedly one that was already banished to the Drama Zone) we currently have no intentions to launch a subscription service and while I can't predict the distant future, it's certainly not happening soon.

Something else that's been mentioned is a label of some kind - we already have one of those: https://www.sarecordings.com/

Ben


----------



## yellowtone

SpitfireSupport said:


> With an announcement like this, we will leave you to guess what it is until we actually announce it but I do want to answer the occasional concern like this.
> 
> 1) We already release some products in our own plugin and occasionally we move a product over to our own plugin (Fragile, Woodwind and Angular Evolutions are an example) where that happens, we offer free updates to people if there is no additional content and an upgrade path where there is (Orbis for example which borrowed content from Fanshawe Earth Encounters)
> 
> 2) As I stated in another thread (admittedly one that was already banished to the Drama Zone) we currently have no intentions to launch a subscription service and while I can't predict the distant future, it's certainly not happening soon.
> 
> Something else that's been mentioned is a label of some kind - we already have one of those: https://www.sarecordings.com/
> 
> Ben



Wow, thanks so much for the quick reply - directly from SF, this makes me feel a lot better about my purchases already. I am also now even more glad to have found this forum and started interacting with it given the inclusion of experts and library representatives. Cheers to everyone for your advice and help - both before, now and in the future!


----------



## Denkii

What about a software that helps you creating your own sample libraries for non-programmers. It comes solo and also as a package with Spitfire's own microphone - their entry into the hardware realm which they will build up upon including modular midi controllers etc.

Ah?
Aahh?


----------



## Mornats

Denkii said:


> What about a software that helps you creating your own sample libraries for non-programmers. It comes solo and also as a package with Spitfire's own microphone - their entry into the hardware realm which they will build up upon including modular midi controllers etc.
> 
> Ah?
> Aahh?



That's my bet. Or, you know, maybe a subscr..... :D


----------



## Michael Antrum

SpitfireSupport said:


> 2) As I stated in another thread (admittedly one that was already banished to the Drama Zone) we currently have no intentions to launch a subscription service and while I can't predict the distant future, it's certainly not happening soon.



So it's definitely subscription then...


----------



## mikeh-375

Zoot_Rollo said:


>



I am not a number I am a free(lance) composer. ....(I bet that's foxed some of you younger forumites...  ..)


----------



## Lode_Runner

It's clearly going to be the Joe Strummer Composer Toolkit people


----------



## Mornats

mikeh-375 said:


> I am not a number I am a free(lance) composer. ....(I bet that's foxed some of you younger forumites...  ..)



I got it  plus I've also been to Portmeiron...


----------



## tomosane

If it indeed is a new flagship line of libraries, then the ongoing “Win everything” giveaway makes a lot of sense. Last chance to majorly hype up the SSO and perhaps get someone who doesn’t win pull the trigger on it at its current price


----------



## MauroPantin

In order for SF to offer subscription services as many here have suggested, they would first need to have their entire product line on their own player. So my bet is there, everything is moving to their proprietary player. The LABS releases have been a great freebie but also obviously a test for the basic functions of that platform, IMO. Kontakt is great but costly for developers (and ultimately the customer). It makes sense.


----------



## zimm83

Everything on the new player + 60% off for all the Kontakt libraries until they dissapear.. ......Am i right ???


----------



## Zedcars

Seems pretty clear there is some connection with the Beeb (BBC) here. I say clear, more like I can make out distant shapes through thick London smog before the Clean Air Act.


----------



## Manaberry

I hope for some SSO Pro announcement with bug fixes and rework (new player maybe?)


----------



## Michel Simons

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is a subscription service. Could it be that?


----------



## Mucusman

A game changer: _everyone _who submitted a survey entry in the current "Win Everything" contest actually receives a copy of everything! At least it would guarantee that Spitfire would receive incredible participation numbers in all subsequent surveys!


----------



## windyweekend

yellowtone said:


> What are folks thoughts on purchases of Spitfire libraries before the announcement? I just purchased my first SF libraries a couple weeks ago (Albion V and Sound Dust Vol. 1) which I am really enjoying. I see that Albion IV is now on sale and am tempted. But if Spitfire launches either 1) a new sample engine, moving away from Kontakt and potentially adding new functionality exclusive to their new engine, or 2) a subscription service, I see the potential for being very dissapointed in my recent purchases or new ones. Any thoughts?


You won’t be dissapointed even if they move to a new engine. They upgraded the UI for Hans Zimmer Percussion ages years ago but I still use the original products in Kontakt because the UI was more intuitive. The new interface of theirs is getting better and better and eventually they’ll migrate everything to it. You likely won’t have to pay for it again as they offered cross grades for other products they’ve made improvements to. You can’t go wrong with Albion IV btw - it’s a little immense...


----------



## ptram

Kony said:


> Plus the BBC Philharmonic


And there should also be a BBC Scottish and a BBC Welsh Orchestra.

Also, Paul is building his own studio, that looks a bit more ambitious than a bedroom studio. That could be intended not only as Paul's personal dream studio, but also as a recording and production site for their label.

Paolo


----------



## Michael Antrum

​Spitflyer Audio are pleased to announce their new groundbreaking library. Throb - The European Arthouse Movie Toolkit.

Here at Spitflyer Audio, we understand that all careers have to start somewhere, and we too were once young and needed the money. Now with Throb it’s never been simpler to get that first time under you belt.

Some of the highlights of this new library include:

*Boom Chicka Wah Wah’s -* 16 Gb's worth of the highest finely sampled Boom Chicka Wah Wah's - tempo synced.

*The All New Throb Choir* - We have sampled the Throb Choir with a comprehensive range of oral delights including, Oooh, Ugh, Yes, Faster, Don’t Stop and many, many more. Ride the mod wheel to build up to an earth shattering crescendo.

*Spanish Flamenco Guitar EVO’s* - a comprehensive range of beds.

*FX* - 26Gb of FX Samples that cater to all but the most obscure requirements - Need to underscore a scene of a German plumber wearing lederhosen repairing a washing machine circa 1970 - Throb has you covered. We have even sampled the spin cycle !

*Percussion* - Our all new customer scripted percussion engine will make pulsing beats a cinch. We call it the Rhythm Method Engine.


Throb will be available on 28/8/19 . Unsurprisingly, Throb requires ‘Full Kontakt’.

Video walkthroughs will unfortunately not be available on YouTube as usual, as they apparently breach their terms of service. However, we will update you as soon as we organise alternative hosting. As usual Paul will be hosting a long 60 minute walkthrough, and Christian and Oliver will be presenting a couple of shorter ones later.

Pre-Orders Start 28/8/19….


----------



## MillsMixx

My bet is also on the BBC Symphony Orchestra. I have a lot of Orchestral samples and probably don't need anymore but something like this is downright glorious.


----------



## DavidY

ptram said:


> And there should also be a BBC Scottish and a BBC Welsh Orchestra.


aka the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra and BBC National Orchestra of Wales, I believe. 
There is also the BBC Concert Orchestra.


----------



## Zedcars

Michael Antrum said:


> ​Spitflyer Audio are pleased to announce their new groundbreaking library. Throb - The European Arthouse Movie Toolkit.
> 
> Here at Spitflyer Audio, we understand that all careers have to start somewhere, and we too were once young and needed the money. Now with Throb it’s never been simpler to get that first time under you belt.
> 
> Some of the highlights of this new library include:
> 
> *Boom Chicka Wah Wah’s -* 16 Gb's worth of the highest finely sampled Boom Chicka Wah Wah's - tempo synced.
> 
> *The All New Throb Choir* - We have sampled the Throb Choir with a comprehensive range of oral delights including, Oooh, Ugh, Yes, Faster, Don’t Stop and many, many more. Ride the mod wheel to build up to an earth shattering crescendo.
> 
> *Spanish Flamenco Guitar EVO’s* - a comprehensive range of beds.
> 
> *FX* - 26Gb of FX Samples that cater to all but the most obscure requirements - Need to underscore a scene of a German plumber wearing lederhosen repairing a washing machine circa 1970 - Throb has you covered. We have even sampled the spin cycle !
> 
> *Percussion* - Our all new customer scripted percussion engine will make pulsing beats a cinch. We call it the Rhythm Method Engine.
> 
> 
> Throb will be available on 28/8/19 . Unsurprisingly, Throb requires ‘Full Kontakt’.
> 
> Video walkthroughs will unfortunately not be available on YouTube as usual, as they apparently breach their terms of service. However, we will update you as soon as we organise alternative hosting. As usual Paul will be hosting a long 60 minute walkthrough, and Christian and Oliver will be presenting a couple of shorter ones later.
> 
> Pre-Orders Start 28/8/19….


The question is: Is that yours in the photo or the Mrs?


----------



## Zero&One

If 'Throb - The European Arthouse Movie Toolkit' doesn't land on the 28th I'll be so disappointed.


----------



## windyweekend

James H said:


> If 'Throb - The European Arthouse Movie Toolkit' doesn't land on the 28th I'll be so disappointed.


Might even be an anti-climax...


----------



## Zedcars

Just riffing on the keynote date as if it’s significant (it’s not!) in connection with WW2, seeing as “London calling” was used during that time; this event happened on 28th August 1943:

“August 28: Bulgaria's King Boris III dies following an audience with Hitler, leading to rampant, though unproven, speculation that he was assassinated.”

On 28th August 1941, heavy bombing started during the Merseyside Blitz (Liverpool, England) which lasted for 17 months.

In reference to the BBC and microphones:

On 28th August 1962 they began experimental radio broadcasts in stereo on BBC Radio 3, the home of classical music:









Start of experimental stereo broadcasting


28 August 1962



www.bbc.com





And in other news, it appears I have far too much time on my hands!


----------



## borisb2

Zedcars said:


> “August 28: Bulgaria's King Boris III dies following an audience with Hitler, leading to rampant, though unproven, speculation that he was assassinated.”


geez .. I picked the wrong user name .. even if I'm not from bulgaria, King Boris IV just sounds nicer


----------



## VinRice

Michael Antrum said:


> Spitflyer Audio are pleased to announce their new groundbreaking library. Throb - The European Arthouse Movie Toolkit.



Outstanding work Sir! I snushed in me cornflakes...


----------



## Random Guy

windyweekend said:


> Might even be an anti-climax...


And if not, they can shove it up their...


----------



## jaketanner

NoamL said:


> As my serious guess I agree it's likely something that's some kind of upgrade or mod to all their existing libraries. But more likely to be "We're moving all our libraries to the Spitfire player!" than "We're moving all our libraries to a subscription service."


I think for them to go subscription, they'd almost have to move everything over to their player first.


----------



## jaketanner

Braveheart said:


> As a recent example of over-the-top hyping, there's Plugin Alliance just a month ago.
> 
> They announced something revolutionary, with "your deal of a lifetime".
> 
> It ended up being subscription...


Holy crap how hundreds of angry customers (myself included), ripped the a new one on FB...so much so they have to shut down the comments.. LOL


----------



## Zedcars

Spitfire Radio Station?


Floris said:


> So, let's do some _digging_ to see what this little teaser might reveal.
> 
> The first hint is the text: This is London calling.
> A quick search finds
> "The words 'This is London Calling …' were used by the BBC World Service during WWII as part of its broadcast to occupied countries."
> 
> The BBC link is also in the image's title: Auntie. An informal name for the BBC. Maybe just the name for the inspiration for the quote, _maybe more..._
> 
> If you want to be more obscure, conspiracy-style, there was also a _monthly _magazine inspired of it. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Calling_(magazine))
> 
> What does this mean? Probably nothing at all! _(Or does it...) ://_
> 
> Anyone by chance know what the background of the quote is? I brightened it up a lot and it looks to be a microphone, but perhaps someone can link it to something more.


Isn’t that a close up of a BBC Marconi Type A ribbon microphone?


----------



## AdamKmusic

Something BBC / broadcasting related? I would say a TV orchestra or something but there's already Studio Strings / Bernard Herrmann etc...ain't got a scoobie!


----------



## DavidY

Michael Antrum said:


> *FX* - 26Gb of FX Samples that cater to all but the most obscure requirements - Need to underscore a scene of a German plumber wearing lederhosen repairing a washing machine circa 1970 - Throb has you covered. We have even sampled the spin cycle !


I think this pretty much exists - not tried it myself but Soundiron's Laundronium almost certainly features the odd spin cycle.


----------



## Denkii

A new format sponsored by the BBC, similar to what Beatport is for EDM but it's for music that's composed with virtual instruments only.

...now that I wrote it down I like it more than I thought I would.

Including an online radio livestream with competitions where you can win Spitfire stuff because Christian and Paul are co-hosts. That's why Paul needed the studio.

...yes I like it.


----------



## mikeh-375

Twain could sum up the thread so far, with a little doctoring...

"..how vast a return of speculation for such a trifling investment of fact..."


----------



## Alex Fraser

Denkii said:


> A new format sponsored by the BBC, similar to what Beatport is for EDM but it's for music that's composed with virtual instruments only.
> 
> ...now that I wrote it down I like it more than I thought I would.
> 
> Including an online radio livestream with competitions where you can win Spitfire stuff because Christian and Paul are co-hosts. That's why Paul needed the studio.
> 
> ...yes I like it.


I was thinking along the same lines..some sort of composer training or education where student contributions end up on BBC output. 

But we could be thinking far too literal and the BBC references are simply marketing and a celebration of all things "British" - just like the Spitfire airplane - and a nod backwards to the old school marketing and artwork.

There's also that CH tweet specifically referencing sampling which suggests a product or tech announcement. I wonder if this thread will make a lucky guess?


----------



## fiestared

It's WIN WIN for Spitfire Audio, we talk about them like CRAZY and we give them tons of ideas they could use latter...


----------



## redlester

If it's London related I'd expect a huge library of Honky Tonk piano sounds, ideal for scoring a good ol' cock-er-ney knees-up scene. Free voucher for jellied eels and a West Ham season ticket for the first 100 purchasers. Two West Ham ST's for the rest.


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> If it's London related I'd expect a huge library of Honky Tonk piano sounds, ideal for scoring a good ol' cock-er-ney knees-up scene. Free voucher for jellied eels and a West Ham season ticket for the first 100 purchasers. Two West Ham ST's for the rest.


_<Half of VI Control heads to Google..>_


----------



## Zedcars

According to Wikipedia:

"The BBC-Marconi Type A is a ribbon microphone that was produced by the BBC and Marconi between 1934 and 1959. The microphone has been described as "iconic" and a symbol of the BBC, and has become an interface metaphor for sound recording"

More here.


----------



## mikeh-375

redlester said:


> If it's London related I'd expect a huge library of Honky Tonk piano sounds, ideal for scoring a good ol' cock-er-ney knees-up scene. Free voucher for jellied eels and a West Ham season ticket for the first 100 purchasers. Two West Ham ST's for the rest.



Great post @redlester and then you ruin it by mentioning West Ham...any 'ol iron anybody...for sale dahhn the lambeth walk innit....OIY


----------



## robgb

Junkie XL is switching his brass library over to Spitfire...


----------



## DerGeist

Judge Dread British Reggae Toolkit


----------



## VinRice

DerGeist said:


> Judge Dread British Reggae Toolkit



With a free pack of giant Rizlas...



redlester said:


> Two West Ham ST's for the rest



Cruel, but fair.


----------



## zimm83

Hans Zimmer private collections in one Spitfire package : Strings Brass Woods percs choir and synth!!!!!! For me !!!😀


----------



## halfwalk

Doesn't really matter what it is, everyone here is going to buy it regardless.


----------



## DerGeist

halfwalk said:


> Doesn't really matter what it is, everyone here is going to buy it regardless.


I will cleverly resist until the promotional discount period is over and only then decide I must have it.


----------



## Zedcars

I think someone already said this earlier in the thread, but seems like it might be a deep sampled orchestra - probably the BBC SO. However, a “milestone in sample history”, or whatever the phrase was, sounds like something a bit more unusual. F*** knows \_(“.)_/


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Sorry !


----------



## robgb

halfwalk said:


> Doesn't really matter what it is, everyone here is going to buy it regardless.


Not everyone.


----------



## ism

Without attempting to infer anything from the marketing, it does strike me that Spitfire might be ready for some renewed focus on deep sampling itself.

SSO, with the performance legato and so forth, really represented a step forward in sampling. The studio series, for all its merits, doesn’t attempt to surpass SSO in the depth of sampling.

We’ve also had this incredible string of hugely successful innovations in the form of Tundra, The Evos, EWC, Orchstral swarm and so on.

But as brilliant as all of this has been, not of it has really attempted to surpass SSO in its depth of sampling. Which was the right approach - I’m much happier to expand the SSW palette with Tundra and OACE instead of a VSL-style of focus on ultra deep sampling (ie the ‘now with 8 dynamic layers’ approach - which for me is a focus of severely diminishing returns.)

Still, particularly with solo winds and strings, I think I’m now ready for someone to push the enevelope of deep sampling again. And there are indications that there are things ways to push into a next gen major orchestral sampling project that avoids the 8-dynamic layers trap of diminishing returns. Notably:

- OACE’s waves are just incredible, and in some sense really perfect the established art of sampling arcs. If this could be integrated into a performance legato somehow.

- The virtuosic violin in Spitfire solo strings does some amazing things via time machine to control vibrato without the pitfalls of simulated vibato the you get elsewhere. With the caveat that this comes as a a massive cost in performance, in the erra of 24 core imacs, this might be a technique ready to go a bit more mainstream.

- Light and sound chamber strings has a wonderful little innovation that lets you control dynamic crescendo and decrescendo on a phrase with the suns pedal. it’s reminicent of the dyamic arcs of 8dio Adagio libraries, which were a great idea, but the LS approach, while much more limited, is much more practical, I feel. which suggests ome kind of integration of SCS and the OACE waves might be (relatively) low hanging fruit.

- the Virharmonic approach, which is fundamentally different from Spitfire’s approach, also shows that there are great strides to be made in deep sampling. With the caveat that this has proven to be extremely difficult (although I think the results of the Vl expansion 3 speak for themselves).

- As much as I love SSW, 8dio Claire and Berlin exp Woodwinds also show that a great deal more is possible in winds sampling, their common ingredient again being the inclusion of dynamic arcs (with the Berlin exp b approach again being more refined and practical that the early 8dio experience).

- We’ve also seen a few tiny hints where the Spitfire player allows things to be done that are not possible in Kontakt. Small things only so far. But in so far as Kontakt isn’t really optimized for the orchestral sampling community, there’s the possibility that innovation the sampler level might allow new kinds of deep sampling in ways that Kontakt developers might not have though of. OT seem to have been more explicitly in the way that their new sampler is there to drive innovation in sampling. While Spitfire’s marketing hasn’t mostly focused on how pretty it is. But given that it’s underlying technology is from Hans Zimmer, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to hope that some amazing innovations in orchestral sampling are on the horizon.

So while not predicting at all precisely where Spitfire might focus resources on ‘SSO successor’ (or expansion), assuming they are going down the deeper sampling road. I do think the time is right for a new project to push into deeper sampling, with avoiding the VSL trap of diminishing returns.

(Although I should probably qualify, the VSL style of ever deeper sampling probably isn’t diminishing returns for VSL enthusiasts, just that it would be for myself, and probably a lot of people drawn to what I like to call Spitfire’s rather pragmatic ‘sonority first’ approach).


Or it could be another Studio series style of ‘horizontal innovation’ - much the sample sampling approach, with a slightly different quality of sound.


----------



## halfwalk

robgb said:


> Not everyone.



Right, some reviewers will get free copies


----------



## robgb

halfwalk said:


> Right, some reviewers will get free copies


Well, I'll take a free copy. Guess I should become a reviewer...


----------



## robgb

ism said:


> Spitfire might be ready for some renewed focus on deep sampling itself.


Deep sampling itself strikes me as a marketing term. What exactly does it mean? More velocity layers?


----------



## Karma

robgb said:


> Deep sampling itself strikes me as a marketing term. What exactly does it mean? More velocity layers?


Generally speaking I don't think there's a specific requirement for something to be 'deeply sampled', though around here it's likely referring to a good amount of dynamic layers, round robins, different vibrato layers, multiple types of shorts, as well as just articulations in general.

Saying that, a 'deeply sampled' piano is likely going to be somewhat different in content compared to a deep sampled string library.


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> Without attempting to infer anything from the marketing, it does strike me that Spitfire might be ready for some renewed focus on deep sampling itself.
> 
> SSO, with the performance legato and so forth, really represented a step forward in sampling. The studio series, for all its merits, doesn’t attempt to surpass SSO in the depth of sampling.
> 
> We’ve also had this incredible string of hugely successful innovations in the form of Tundra, The Evos, EWC, Orchstral swarm and so on.
> 
> But as brilliant as all of this has been, not of it has really attempted to surpass SSO in its depth of sampling. Which was the right approach - I’m much happier to expand the SSW palette with Tundra and OACE instead of a VSL-style of focus on ultra deep sampling (ie the ‘now with 8 dynamic layers’ approach - which for me is a focus of severely diminishing returns.)
> 
> Still, particularly with solo winds and strings, I think I’m now ready for someone to push the enevelope of deep sampling again. And there are indications that there are things ways to push into a next gen major orchestral sampling project that avoids the 8-dynamic layers trap of diminishing returns. Notably:
> 
> - OACE’s waves are just incredible, and in some sense really perfect the established art of sampling arcs. If this could be integrated into a performance legato somehow.
> 
> - The virtuosic violin in Spitfire solo strings does some amazing things via time machine to control vibrato without the pitfalls of simulated vibato the you get elsewhere. With the caveat that this comes as a a massive cost in performance, in the erra of 24 core imacs, this might be a technique ready to go a bit more mainstream.
> 
> - Light and sound chamber strings has a wonderful little innovation that lets you control dynamic crescendo and decrescendo on a phrase with the suns pedal. it’s reminicent of the dyamic arcs of 8dio Adagio libraries, which were a great idea, but the LS approach, while much more limited, is much more practical, I feel. which suggests ome kind of integration of SCS and the OACE waves might be (relatively) low hanging fruit.
> 
> - the Virharmonic approach, which is fundamentally different from Spitfire’s approach, also shows that there are great strides to be made in deep sampling. With the caveat that this has proven to be extremely difficult (although I think the results of the Vl expansion 3 speak for themselves).
> 
> - As much as I love SSW, 8dio Claire and Berlin exp Woodwinds also show that a great deal more is possible in winds sampling, their common ingredient again being the inclusion of dynamic arcs (with the Berlin exp b approach again being more refined and practical that the early 8dio experience).
> 
> - We’ve also seen a few tiny hints where the Spitfire player allows things to be done that are not possible in Kontakt. Small things only so far. But in so far as Kontakt isn’t really optimized for the orchestral sampling community, there’s the possibility that innovation the sampler level might allow new kinds of deep sampling in ways that Kontakt developers might not have though of. OT seem to have been more explicitly in the way that their new sampler is there to drive innovation in sampling. While Spitfire’s marketing hasn’t mostly focused on how pretty it is. But given that it’s underlying technology is from Hans Zimmer, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to hope that some amazing innovations in orchestral sampling are on the horizon.
> 
> So while not predicting at all precisely where Spitfire might focus resources on ‘SSO successor’ (or expansion), assuming they are going down the deeper sampling road. I do think the time is right for a new project to push into deeper sampling, with avoiding the VSL trap of diminishing returns.
> 
> (Although I should probably qualify, the VSL style of ever deeper sampling probably isn’t diminishing returns for VSL enthusiasts, just that it would be for myself, and probably a lot of people drawn to what I like to call Spitfire’s rather pragmatic ‘sonority first’ approach).
> 
> 
> Or it could be another Studio series style of ‘horizontal innovation’ - much the sample sampling approach, with a slightly different quality of sound.


It's possible, but I haven't seen any sign that SF is planning to supplant SSO, so if they went this direction, I would say it would be to build out (and complete what they promised with BML) rather than develop an entirely new line. I continue to think that the announcement will focus on SSO Pro, maybe with a substantial increase in new content, and improvements in their player and store, maybe allowing the purchase of individual instruments and mic positions.


----------



## ism

robgb said:


> Deep sampling itself strikes me as a marketing term. What exactly does it mean? More velocity layers?



Perhaps. But at the very least there is a useful distinction between a depth-first approach to sampling a breadth-first approach. OACE, for instance is quintessential breadth first - not a legato script in sight, and not much by way of dynamic layers, mostly just a sprawlingly vast palette of longs. Tundra, though a similarly spectacular innovation in my estimation, is almost as completely breadth first in approach (a couple of string legato patches notwithstanding.)


Conversely, CSS and CSSS are good examples of a depth first approach. Each have a relatively small range of sonority with a laser focus on dynamic layers and legato scripting.

Contrast this to Spitfire solo strings which has one less dyanmic layer (3 to CSSS's 4), a slightly less general purpose take on legato, but in its overall sonority, a vast palette compared to the relatively homogenous (though superbly implemented) of CSS/CSSS.

And similarly SCS which has considerable depth - the 4 dynamic layers, advanced legato sampling and scripting, 3 vibrato types etc - in addition to considerable breadth of sonority across a huge range of articulations.

I just chose the VSL example of 8 velocity layers as an example of something that is clearly an approach to depth first sampling. But while I occasionally think that a 3rd or 4th dynamic layer might be nice for a particular instruments, what's keeping me from writing better sounding music is probably not the absence of a 7th or 8th dyanmic layer.

What I do think might really be the lowest hanging fruit in helping what I write genuinely sound better though is some kind of integration of dynamics arcs. OACE waves and L&S Chamber strings being the libraries that I feel really deliver bread and butter improvement in what I write in this way. While the older 8dio approach to dynamics arcs, while never seeming to work all that well in practice, remains very suggestive of how much value a deep sampling of dynamic arcs could add to a library, if done right.

I'd also add the all of my playing around with Spitfire solo strings suggests that a Solo Strings Vol II might reasonably add more depth of content - progressive vibrato in different speeds and intensities, for instance. The Virtuosic violin also shows how much deeper the cello and viola might reasonably be sampled also.

In the case of solo strings, notwithstanding the fabulous existing breadth of the library, now that we can see how great the OA Chamber Evo can be (I consider OACE to be the pinnacle in execution of the whole evo concept) it becomes obvious that there's no reason you couldn't do this for the solo strings. The Solo string 'Whispering trems' patch suggests what an obviously great idea a solo stings evo is, as does the origional OA evo (although it isn't quite adequately sampled to really work as solo instrument articulations)




jbuhler said:


> It's possible, but I haven't seen any sign that SF is planning to supplant SSO, so if they went this direction, I would say it would be to build out (and complete what they promised with BML) rather than develop an entirely new line. I continue to think that the announcement will focus on SSO Pro, maybe with a substantial increase in new content, and improvements in their player and store, maybe allowing the purchase of individual instruments and mic positions.



I hope this is right. And I don't know that anyone's actually getting tired of the SSO sound - notwithstanding the fact that the 'london calling' + vintage mic imagery does seem to suggest a new sound (perhaps a 'vintage' orchestra?) if one is into deciphering marketing imagery.

And if it is the case that this is a depth-of-sampling driven SSO expansion, I'll be fascinated to see where it goes.

For instance, theres plenty of room to go deeper in, for instance, - the solo winds which could easily benefit from, for instance, another dynamic layer or two, perhaps some more lyrical solo arcs. Of course you could as easily go wider by adding a 2rd and 3rd flute in OT style.

More interesting is SCS - if you were take 4 dynamic layers and 13 types of legato and double them to 8 dynamic layers and 26 types of legato ... I'm not sure that this counts as depth first. Or its a the kind of depth first that would seem to run very seriously into diminishing returns. 


Its not really a question of whether more content could make it better (more content is alway fun) so much as which kind of new content would most spectacularly let people write better music, in Spitfire style - as opposed to create more detail orchestrations, in OT style. And more detail for more precise orchestrations would be fun and let SSO compete with OT in that highly detailed orchestration space ... but I'd be a bit disappointed if this was the extent of the ambition.

* * *


The other possibility that occurs to me - possibly related to the power Sf now has to innovate with the player - is modelling technology.


I suppose I see "deep sampled" vs "modelled" as a dichotomy a bit like the old debate on analog vs digital. 'Digital Video' in 1970, say, was a pretty horrible thing against the warmth of film. And that's kind of where I think we're at today with things like simulated vibrato or dynamics (especially on solo strings).


But at some point "modelling first" techniques are going to surpass "deep sampling" techniques as surely as digital engulfed analogue. More likely the two approaches will merge, once sound modelling can deliver the warmth of actual recorded samples.


I can't say that there's much modelling technology at the moment that I find terribly convincing. So barring a spectacular breakthrough, I doubt this convergence will happen anytime soon.


But still, spectacular breakthroughs do happen. And if there was a company poised to massively invest in it, it might well be Spitfire.


----------



## ism

robgb said:


> Deep sampling itself strikes me as a marketing term. What exactly does it mean? More velocity layers?



Maybe a simpler indicator might just be - the number of sample that need to stitched together to play, for instance a melody on an n note scale. And we say that this number increases with 'depth' of sampling:


Add a release trigger for each note: 2 * n
Add m dynamic layers : m * n 
Add legatos between of the n notes : n * n
Overtones when playing 8ves or 5ths : ...
... etc

A crude metric to be sure. But it does let us define 'deep sampling' in a way that marketing could, at least in principle, be held accountable to.


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> But still, spectacular breakthroughs do happen. And if there was a company poised to massively invest in it, it might well be Spitfire.


True, but I think we would have had some inkling of what they were up to if that were the case. For instance, I would not be surprised at all if they adopted something like treatment of vibrato from the virtuoso violin patch and applied it across SSO. Every single part of SSO could also be usefully expanded in either the detailed orchestration direction or the expanding horizons direction. Expansion packs similar to what OT does with the Berlin series. That would also fit with a re-modularization of SSO, if they decide to use their sample player to go in that direction.

If this is about another orchestra with a vintage sound, that might fit the bill as a replacement for Albion 2, though I think a direct softer side complement to Albion 1 would make more sense.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I think it’s probably something new. Updates to existing product lines would be welcome but worth all the hype and fanfare?

It’s an “announcement” (singular) and the “biggest to date.” If I recall correctly, the biggest announcement so far has been HZ strings. And that included the new player reveal.

This has to top that.  If it’s SSO pro, I’d want more than just mics.


----------



## redlester

Going back to the idea of them converting everything away from Kontakt, I just can't see that. As I said earlier in the thread, they are still stating in their literature that they are going to continue producing Kontakt instruments, and have been doing so right up until very recently.

I could be mistaken on this, I haven't checked, but have a feeling the only instruments which have undergone the conversion to the new player (Labs, the Evo's, the Enigma's* and the Earth Encounters) were ones which were not Kontakt Player libraries but Kontakt full libraries, loaded via the File or Quickload methods. It makes sense to move these over as the non-Player libraries are potentially vulnerable to pirating far more so than Kontakt or Spitfire player libraries. It wouldn't surprise me to see all of the non-Player Kontakt libraries gradually phased out in this way. I would take a guess at Sacconi Quartet being potentially the next.

*Edit: the Enigmas were of course converted to Kontakt player as Ambient Guitars, but the point still stands.

Second edit: now have had time to check - Earth Encounters was a Kontakt Player library prior to becoming Orbis. So far I think the only one converted from Kontakt player to Spitfire player.


----------



## Braveheart

zimm83 said:


> Hans Zimmer private collections in one Spitfire package : Strings Brass Woods percs choir and synth!!!!!! For me !!!😀



Or maybe a new String library by Hans Zimmer and produced by Daniel James entitled "The Grand reconciliation".


----------



## NekujaK

Henry Mancini Strings... or a corporate merger with Native Instruments...

I can't say which


----------



## Random Guy

Braveheart said:


> Or maybe a new String library by Hans Zimmer and produced by Daniel James entitled "The Grand reconciliation".


With more than one round robin, and without the occasional sniff.


----------



## lp59burst

Mornats said:


> Maybe they don't know what they're going to announce yet and they're just going to pick the best one from this thread.


Well then we'd better get to it... 'cause we only have 22 more days left to speculate...


----------



## MOMA

Right, so "the biggest announcement yet"? Well I would go for an extended player - a new platform for the coming product range. Easy to market as a new generation and with free room for Spitfire to develop every angle of the future.

MOMA


----------



## Raphioli

jbuhler said:


> I continue to think that the announcement will focus on SSO Pro, maybe with a substantial increase in new content, and improvements in their player and store, maybe allowing the purchase of individual instruments and mic positions.



That *"substantial increase in new content" *would make me very interested.
SCS is already a very comprehensive library, so maybe make the other symphonic sections the same regarding articulations. And maybe also add "arcs", which Spitfire call "waves" in their Chamber Evo library.
(But maybe it would be technically hard to do it. I have a feeling the new articulations would sound like they were from a completely new recording/library. How likely would it be for every player using the exact same instrument they were using when they recording the BML series.)


----------



## Chungus

Clearly, they're going to announce N. I don't know how this isn't obvious.


----------



## Denkii

That would be the coolest move ever.


----------



## jbuhler

Raphioli said:


> That *"substantial increase in new content" *would make me very interested.
> SCS is already a very comprehensive library, so maybe make the other symphonic sections the same regarding articulations. And maybe also add "arcs", which Spitfire call "waves" in their Chamber Evo library.
> (But maybe it would be technically hard to do it. I have a feeling the new articulations would sound like they were from a completely new recording/library. How likely would it be for every player using the exact same instrument they were using when they recording the BML series.)


Maybe. But the original design of BML was for it to be expanded beyond what ended up in SSO. So I presume they had a plan to do so, whether that proved too difficult to accomplish from a technical standpoint or they just determined it would not be profitable, or a combination thereof, I don't know.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Maybe they're going to announce that Christian and Paul are finally getting married, and all of VI Control is invited to the wedding.


----------



## Mornats

I'm not sure I'd call an expansion of an existing library their "biggest announcement to date". My money is more along the lines of something to enable more people to create and sell/distribute their samples with the help and backing of Spitfire. That's a business shift, an enabler for many people and can only be beneficial to the industry both in providing more unique sample libraries and creating a future generation of samplists. In my humble opinion, that would fit the "biggest announcement to date" label.


----------



## Zero&One

I agree, anything updating a library is just an announcement. Even a new library like the last few are announcements.
"Biggest announcement to date" as previously mentioned has to to surpass the New player/HZ Strings one. So I highly doubt an update to SSO would viewed as such? Maybe I'm wrong...

I'm still sticking with the "This is London calling..." reference to them contacting an overseas partner


----------



## Denkii

Probably they're just trying to open up a platform for user created samples. Give NI some competition. Make it accessible to the masses.
Receive commissions for the sales.

The Steam of sampling.


----------



## mc_deli

Chungus said:


> Clearly, they're going to announce N. I don't know how this isn't obvious.



I heard that N has an announcement at the same time. But it's super hush hush.


----------



## jbuhler

Mornats said:


> My money is more along the lines of something to enable more people to create and sell/distribute their samples with the help and backing of Spitfire.





James H said:


> I'm still sticking with the "This is London calling..." reference to them contacting an overseas partner



I like both of these ideas and the first could complement an announcement about SSO Pro, especially if it involved a significant change in the SF Player, a re-modularization of SSO for individual instruments and mics, an overhaul of the SF Store, and an opening up of the SF Player (and maybe the Store) to other sample library makers. 

The overseas partner makes some sense from the teaser, and something like SF and OT united against NI would be a big change worthy perhaps of the hype, but would a company like OT be willing to let SF do all the planning in this way?


----------



## Jdiggity1

MOMA said:


> Right, so "the biggest anointment yet"?


Sorry, did you say "the biggest annoyance yet?"


----------



## Zedcars

I have more evidence that it is a major sample library in connection with the BBC Symphony Orchestra. Can't share the source. Someone already suggested this in this thread, and it's not that hard following the breadcrumbs they laid in their marketing. There's always a chance I'm wrong, but I found something out today.


----------



## Zero&One

Zedcars said:


> There's always a chance I'm wrong, but I found something out today.



Source aside, what did you find out?


----------



## Zedcars

James H said:


> Source aside, what did you find out?


I really don’t want to say that as it could land someone in hot water. Sorry.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Uh oh... sounds like Christian has been leaking emails again...


----------



## Michael Antrum

It's their new BBC Hybrid library. Some video footage has been leaked....


----------



## Zedcars

I have reason to believe the recordings (of whatever this is), took place at Maida Vale Studios - an iconic and historic collection of BBC studios. There is so much history in those studios going back many decades that I was sad to read the BBC were closing them (due to complete in 2022 apparently).









Maida Vale


The home of the BBC Symphony Orchestra



www.bbc.com





Just wild speculation here, but I was wondering if SA had plans to buy them, or lease out, for their future recording ambitions?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> I have more evidence that it is a major sample library in connection with the BBC Symphony Orchestra. Can't share the source. Someone already suggested this in this thread, and it's not that hard following the breadcrumbs they laid in their marketing. There's always a chance I'm wrong, but I found something out today.


Well if we’re warming to the BBC angle, the Beeb’s orchestra has always been associated with Maida Vale studios in London. It's got a rich recording history and the BBC news was broadcast from here in WW2 (_"This is London Calling!"_)

So, a new orchestra in a new sampled space sounds very much like a Spitfire thing. The cherry on top? The BBC is set to close (and demolish) the facility in the next couple of years, so Spitfire would be capturing a historic recorded space for prosperity. That sounds like the sort of thing they enjoy.

Either this or a subscription.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Well if we’re warming to the BBC angle, the Beeb’s orchestra has always been associated with Maida Vale studios in London. It's got a rich recording history and the BBC news was broadcast from here in WW2 (_"This is London Calling!"_)
> 
> So, a new orchestra in a new sampled space sounds very much like a Spitfire thing. The cherry on top? The BBC is set to close (and demolish) the facility in the next couple of years, so Spitfire would be capturing a historic recorded space for prosperity. That sounds like the sort of thing they enjoy.


Correct. See above (I think we posted at the same time!)


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Correct. See above (I think we posted at the same time!)


This looks and smells right. It would also tie in with CH’s Twitter comments about a historic moment in sampling.


----------



## VinRice

Good catch guys! That sounds exactly the kind of thing Spitfire would be in to.

A guy a few years ahead of me at school managed to land a BBC assistant producer's job and a couple of us blagged a visit to Maida Vale to watch a radio recording. It was like visiting the Queen going down to London into the hallowed BBC. Big impression on me 40 years ago. Very sad to watch all the original studios being broken up.


----------



## Zero&One

Very sad about Maida Vale Studio, listen to several artists play there on Radio 6.


----------



## erica-grace

Good catch indeed!

Anyone know anything about the space, in terms of dimensions, ambience, etc? Looks to be smaller than AIR, but not small and dry.


----------



## Loïc D

My guess : some kind of academy / music school in London, dedicated to VI making, composition, recording, etc.
Christian talks a lot in his vlog how his career start was hard to do without a network and a musical education and that he made all possible mistakes at the time.


----------



## Zero&One

woops


----------



## jamwerks

The ceiling looks surprisingly low !


----------



## Zero&One

is one of the largest recording spaces available in the UK. Equipped with a Studer D950 digital desk


----------



## robgb

Has anyone mentioned a collaboration with The Clash?


----------



## Zedcars

Deleted


----------



## Zero&One

Lets get back on track... surely it's a Subscription service!! How dare they!


----------



## VinRice

jamwerks said:


> The ceiling looks surprisingly low !



It's deceptive - it's a massive room.


----------



## prodigalson

Poor SFA, still another 3 weeks out from just the announcement of the project and VI Control have already figured out what it is.


----------



## VinRice

It can't be refurbished apparently because it contains asbestos and the regulations are extremely strict now. Whoever re-develops the site is going to have to go full haz-mat on its ass.


----------



## VinRice

Spitfire aren't lying when they say say these projects take 18 months to two years to complete...


----------



## VinRice

Confirmed: Subscription service!


----------



## rhizomusicosmos

Well then, I hope they include some Radiophonic Workshop sounds in the library!


----------



## Michel Simons

I have it from a source close to spitfire that it is going to be a conscription service.


----------



## CT

LowweeK said:


> My guess : some kind of academy / music school in London, dedicated to VI making, composition, recording, etc.
> Christian talks a lot in his vlog how his career start was hard to do without a network and a musical education and that he made all possible mistakes at the time.



That would be nice.

I've been absolutely adrift in life for a while now, and the thought keeps popping into my head that maybe I need to stop trying the same old things here in the states, completely pack up, and head over to England, where I've always really wanted to end up anyway. 

For the next few weeks I'm going to choose to believe that Spitfire is doing something that will conveniently facilitate this.


----------



## NYC Composer

miket said:


> That would be nice.
> 
> I've been absolutely adrift in life for a while now, and the thought keeps popping into my head that maybe I need to stop trying the same old things here in the states, completely pack up, and head over to England, where I've always really wanted to end up anyway.
> 
> For the next few weeks I'm going to choose to believe that Spitfire is doing something that will conveniently facilitate this.


Don't just do something, stand there!


----------



## Zedcars

prodigalson said:


> Poor SFA, still another 3 weeks out from just the announcement of the project and VI Control have already figured out what it is.


Well, there’s still plenty left to announce that we don’t know yet. I know they recorded the string section early last year, and the venue we now know, but anything further I don’t know about.

I think there’s still some more to this that will be a surprise on the 28th.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I've been up all night with my 2 month old daughter so I've had plenty of time to chew on this. (There's only so much "Big Bang Theory" you can watch on Netflix at 3am..)

If we're on the money, this could be a really exciting project and there are lots of unanswered questions. How deeply sampled is the orchestra? SSO levels?

Taking a wider picture, what's the working relationship between the BBC and Spitfire? Have they been working together on this with a preservation/arts/education angle? If the project was part funded by BBC Arts for example, it could be much more than just a sample library.

Given the historical status and impending closure of the building, perhaps Spitfire have gone all out and recorded more than an orchestra. A Spitfire re-imagining of NI's Abbey Road series springs to mind.

Exciting stuff. It's not hard to see why this is billed as the "biggest announcement to date."
Let's hope we're in the ballpark.


----------



## thereus

Well, I hope they got everything 100%. They are not going to be able to go back and do pickups if it’s full of problems like HZS.


----------



## jamwerks

Hope they've done all the necessary R & D of this space, that it works well for sampling. And I'd love to have some WW's first. Seems that's the weakest section currently for orchestral libraries.


----------



## Zedcars

DavidY said:


> I do love the sound of a Merlin engine...


Interesting fact...they trademarked the phrase 'Spitfire Merlin' 4 years ago. I'm not aware they ever used it in a product (please correct me here...I'm not certain about that). The description is "Computer software for creating and editing music and sounds;Computer software for processing digital music files."

Seeing as that was 2015, seems unrelated to this upcoming announcement.

EDIT: Seems it’s already a name they use internally.


----------



## Mornats

That would give it four years of development time. Not outrageous to be honest.


----------



## Mornats

You know what? It would be in the spirit of the BBC to provide samples of their orchestra to the public for free (the BBC is funded from public money). So what if this is a Spitfire Merlin engine that allows you to sample and create sample libraries and comes with free orchestral samples from a BBC orchestra recorded at Maida Vale?


----------



## Garry

Christian just confirmed on his vlog that he and Jake Jackson are working on a large orchestral Logic template that they will release in October. This would also be consistent with the idea of the BBC Symphony orchestra being the big reveal on Aug 28th. Sounds exciting.


----------



## Mornats

If you Google Spitfire Audio and Maida Vale this comes up: Edit: a link that confirms the connection (removed).


----------



## VinRice

Eh, yeah. We were trying to not embarrass the poor lady...


----------



## Zedcars

Comment redacted.


----------



## jbuhler

Zedcars said:


> Interesting fact...they trademarked the phrase 'Spitfire Merlin' 4 years ago. I'm not aware they ever used it in a product (please correct me here...I'm not certain about that). The description is "Computer software for creating and editing music and sounds;Computer software for processing digital music files."
> 
> Seeing as that was 2015, seems unrelated to this upcoming announcement.


I thought “Merlin” was the in-house name for the SF player.


----------



## Zedcars

jbuhler said:


> I thought “Merlin” was the in-house name for the SF player.


Fair enough. I thought it might be something already in use, but wasn’t sure.


----------



## Mornats

I've taken the link out, sorry about that. It did appear on the first page when googling so it's in the public domain but I agree with the sentiments on here about it.


----------



## Random Guy

I found it! It's definitely the Spitfire Audio BBC Symphony Orchestra. If you Google 'Spitfire Audio' and 'Maida Vale', there is a link which says that Spitfire carried out recordings at the Maida Vale studio on January 8. It makes sense that they're releasing it 9 months after recording.


----------



## Fleer

You sure ain’t no random guy anymore.


----------



## Random Guy

Fleer said:


> You sure ain’t no random guy anymore.


Oh, I'm just a voice in the wilderness.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Except ... there goes Spitfire’s big reveal. I’m all for the fun of speculation and guesses, but once hard evidence is posted that could effectively eff up what is likely a very expensive marketing campaign, I think our community could have been a little more discreet. I mean, SA only just got back here...


----------



## prodigalson

PaulBrimstone said:


> Except ... there goes Spitfire’s big reveal. I’m all for the fun of speculation and guesses, but once hard evidence is posted that could effectively eff up what is likely a very expensive marketing campaign, I think our community could have been a little more discreet. I mean, SA only just got back here...



I tend to agree. some of us showed a little sensitivity and tact. Others couldn't help themselves.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

PaulBrimstone said:


> Except ... there goes Spitfire’s big reveal. I’m all for the fun of speculation and guesses, but once hard evidence is posted that could effectively eff up what is likely a very expensive marketing campaign, I think our community could have been a little more discreet. I mean, SA only just got back here...


I get the sentiment but spitfire marketing basically invites this sort of dissection and evidence gathering


----------



## jbuhler

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I get the sentiment but spitfire marketing basically invites this sort of dissection and evidence gathering


I tend to agree. I mean once you know what to look for the dropping of the breadcrumbs has seemed pretty deliberate. (I say this as someone who didn’t really pay much attention to those clues.)


----------



## AllanH

It was certainly Spitfire's choice to tease so early. It'll be interesting to see how close the VI-C brain trust got


----------



## Random Guy

What's the big deal? If Spitfire resents people investigating their secret product, I can't imagine what would happen if sales don't meet their expectations. Outing the product isn't going to effect their profit, of which this is all about. So, everyone needs to chill out and just get their wallets ready as they usually do.


----------



## CT

So just to be clear, it's subscription after all right? Spitfire subscription bundled with BBC subscription?


----------



## LamaRose

Spitfire had best heed OT's _a la carte _initiative... this supersedes subscription, imho.


----------



## unclecheeks

LamaRose said:


> Spitfire had best heed OT's _a la carte _initiative... this supersedes subscription, imho.



I like this idea. I also hope that they consider some different mic option packages for those of us with portable/low storage setups. I really only use 1, rarely 2, mics at a time and being able to save on storage space (and possibly cost!) would be a huge plus.


----------



## Zedcars

(Those recordings were 19 months ago, not 9)


----------



## Zedcars

The way I look at it is this: if they didn’t want us to investigate then why lay the breadcrumbs? It’s human nature to be inquisitive. Look at Apple - one of the most secretive companies in the world. There’s a whole second industry that’s been created on the back of gathering Apple rumours. Even they cannot keep a lid on their secrets.

I think my main concern when posting anything was revealing the source as there was almost certainly an NDA in place. That’s why I was cagey about where the info came from. I really hope nothing bad happens to that person, other that a polite message about it.

The other thing is that we still don’t know any of the details, so there is still much to look forward to in the announcement.

I think any company that drums up this much positive interest on the back of such minimal marketing (at this stage) would be very happy.

I don’t think their big reveal has been ruined. It’s been enhanced by more interest and momentum.

And really, how many potential customers are following this thread anyway? I’d think it’s only a minority.


----------



## mikeh-375

That's it @miket . I pay my TV license to the BBC, so I will expect a bigger discount than the poor saps on the other side of the pond. For you guys in Europe, if you tick a "get rid of the backstop" box in your shopping basket, you'll also be entitled to a discount....go SFA....


----------



## Alex Fraser

I’m torn. On the one hand, no one wants to ruin Spitfire’s hard work. On the otherhand, if you post a riddle with a dollop of hype, The Internet will go at it all guns blazing. Difficult.


----------



## mikeh-375

There's absolutely nothing to be torn about Alex imv. You said it, a dollop of hype has generated 13 pages so far...that's a win for a company even _if_ their big day has been sussed out. They can handle it.


----------



## Francis Bourre

So I guess BBCSO will become the next most successful keyword on this forum soon.


----------



## Random Guy

Zedcars said:


> The way I look at it is this: if they didn’t want us to investigate then why lay the breadcrumbs? It’s human nature to be inquisitive. Look at Apple - one of the most secretive companies in the world. There’s a whole second industry that’s been created on the back of gathering Apple rumours. Even they cannot keep a lid on their secrets.
> 
> I think my main concern when posting anything was revealing the source as there was almost certainly an NDA in place. That’s why I was cagey about where the info came from. I really hope nothing bad happens to that person, other that a polite message about it.
> 
> The other thing is that we still don’t know any of the details, so there is still much to look forward to in the announcement.
> 
> I think any company that drums up this much positive interest on the back of such minimal marketing (at this stage) would be very happy.
> 
> I don’t think their big reveal has been ruined. It’s been enhanced by more interest and momentum.
> 
> And really, how many potential customers are following this thread anyway? I’d think it’s only a minority.


No NDA was broken, I believe. The info was available on one of the string player's personal website, which showed their recording schedule.

Everyone needs to calm down and eat some fruit. I'm sure the product is going to be outstanding, as always. And most importantly for Spitfire, it will make them a lot of money, which in turn negates NDA litigation.


----------



## muk

A sample library with the BBC Symphony Orchestra. Very cool. That's actually something I am interested in. And with all the experience Spitfire Audio has with their previous symphonic libraries this could turn out great.


----------



## Random Guy

What would be the difference between SSO and SBBCSO?


----------



## Denkii

I don't see how this should be the biggest announcement to date yet. It's a new library. It's probably less specific and niche than their latest releases, which some people will like. Biggest announcement though? I'd expect something else or something on top of that.

Modular buying approach like OT would spice this up.

Or just literally biggest so that it's a one stop library for all sections? Coming at what...$1500?
Meh.

Give me something more. Don't tease me like that and then reveal "it's what we do all the time but this time it's 'more' because marketing decided to".


----------



## muk

Sampling the BBC Symphony Orchestra is not enough? Gee, some folks are hard to please. A collaboration with the BBC _is_ a pretty big thing. And if this is true, it will most probably not be one library, but a new range of libraries like their previous symphonic range. As long as the specifics aren't known, this could be 'just another' orchestral library - recorded with a damn fine orchestra, though. Or it could be the new standard in orchestral sampling. Who knows. Also, the recordings could be just a part of the collaboration with BBC. We'll see at the end of August.


----------



## blue book

muk said:


> Sampling the BBC Symphony Orchestra is not enough? Gee, some folks are hard to please. A collaboration with the BBC _is_ a pretty big thing. And if this is true, it will most probably not be one library, but a new range of libraries like their previous symphonic range. As long as the specifics aren't known, this could be 'just another' orchestral library - recorded with a damn fine orchestra, though. Or it could be the new standard in orchestral sampling. Who knows. Also, the recordings could be just a part of the collaboration with BBC. We'll see at the end of August.



The BBC Radiophonic Workshop was based in the Maida Vale studios. I wonder if Spitfire will not just launch the BBC Symphony Orchestra recorded in Maida Vale, but also an Orbis-style synthesiser based on the Maida Vale output of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop. The sounds that Delia Derbyshire and co came up with worked into Spitfire's eDNA engine? Nice.


----------



## Zedcars

Random Guy said:


> No NDA was broken, I believe.


Is that a guess? Not saying you are wrong, but I thought it was standard practice to have an NDA for this kind of thing. I could be way off there - I’m only guessing on that too!


----------



## Michael Antrum

Lots of interesting speculation here, but a new SSO Pro was promised for this year - which I understand would be a FOC upgrade for those who bought the expansions for SSO last year.

So if the BBC speculations are correct - that would mean that in the last 4 months of this year Spitfire would be releasing two new full orchestra packages - which doesn't seem to be a particularly smart move from a marketing perspective. (Or at least it doesn't seem that way to me.)

I mean we have the SSO, and the Studio series. Does any other developer have three ranges of full orchestra library ? Not that I'd imagine that would stop them if they really wanted to do it.

Well, I'll be looking forward to seeing what they have cooked up for us at the end of the month, but as I already have SSO Pro and the core versions of the Studio series, and the upgrade to SSO coming this year I couldn't see myself dropping any serious money on a new orchestral library.....


----------



## Zero&One

Random Guy said:


> What's the big deal?



The sales of this will be huge, no doubt. If anything this will increase the want, it certainly has with me.

It's more... without bringing anymore attention to the subject, the potential source of the info and protecting that source from any unwanted attention.


----------



## Zero&One

mikeh-375 said:


> I pay my TV license to the BBC, so I will expect a bigger discount than you poor saps on the other side of the pond.



Yeah! I've paid for that POS for years, only for repeats of Dad's Army (although good). Let's hope there's a vintage style "You paid your licence?" checkbox for an extra 10% reduction.
Hope the TV licence detector van's aren't out!


----------



## mikeh-375

Don't panic, @James H , silly boy, don't PANIC....


----------



## richhickey

Random Guy said:


> What would be the difference between SSO and SBBCSO?



With SBBCSO you just press one key and it spits out an entire soundtrack, the mood of which you can affect with the mod wheel.


----------



## rudi

James H said:


> It's more... without bringing anymore attention to the subject, the potential source of the info and protecting that source from any unwanted attention.




*'Don't tell him, Pike' ** *


----------



## Zedcars

HZ Strings was NDA'd, so I don't see why this would not be.

https://www.leekirbyphotography.com/blog/2018/2/28/inside-hans-zimmers-studio
(An interesting blog article with a ton of lovely photos of HZ's studio.)


----------



## jbuhler

Michael Antrum said:


> Lots of interesting speculation here, but a new SSO Pro was promised for this year - which I understand would be a FOC upgrade for those who bought the expansions for SSO last year.
> 
> So if the BBC speculations are correct - that would mean that in the last 4 months of this year Spitfire would be releasing two new full orchestra packages - which doesn't seem to be a particularly smart move from a marketing perspective. (Or at least it doesn't seem that way to me.)
> 
> I mean we have the SSO, and the Studio series. Does any other developer have three ranges of full orchestra library ? Not that I'd imagine that would stop them if they really wanted to do it.
> 
> Well, I'll be looking forward to seeing what they have cooked up for us at the end of the month, but as I already have SSO Pro and the core versions of the Studio series, and the upgrade to SSO coming this year I couldn't see myself dropping any serious money on a new orchestral library.....


I've wondered a bit about this too. How does this fit in and around their other products, especially SSO, if this is another orchestra? I suppose it could be something more in line with BHCT and there is that hole in the Albion line that will be filled at some point. But as has been pointed out, neither of those ideas fits the hype, and Christian's video talking about building a template certainly makes it seem like this will be a big, detailed library.


----------



## Random Guy

I think it's obvious that Spitfire is going to release the ultra flautando.


----------



## GingerMaestro

It's going to be an expensive Autumn what with Project Sam Symphobia 4, Orchestra tools Pick and Mix Store and a New 'Cello Section from London. Cancel Summer Vacation NOW !


----------



## Denkii

Random Guy said:


> I think it's obvious that Spitfire is going to release the ultra flautando.


Power Flautando in a new N-gine?


----------



## Zero&One

jbuhler said:


> I've wondered a bit about this too. How does this fit in and around their other products, especially SSO, if this is another orchestra? I suppose it could be something more in line with BHCT and there is that hole in the Albion line that will be filled at some point. But as has been pointed out, neither of those ideas fits the hype, and Christian's video talking about building a template certainly makes it seem like this will be a big, detailed library.



Yeah, I was thinking more on the BHCT style too. Hopefully that style but with more individual sections etc

I think with the closure of the Maida Vale, and recording the BBC orchestra in that space makes this library a milestone. Has either been done before? I'm not sure
Capturing these 2 elements together is something that won't be achievable in the near future, sadly :(

Possibly us Brits are more excited with the 2 very British things here. We don't get much to get excited over on this rainy gloomy island


----------



## Michael Antrum

James H said:


> Possibly us Brits are more excited with the 2 very British things here. We don't get much to get excited over on this rainy gloomy island



I’m sorry, but I must protest. Us Brits do not get ‘excited’. 

We may become mildly enthused about something, in an understated way of course. We may even look forward to forthcoming events with interest, but excited ?

Never.


----------



## Zero&One

You are correct sir. I got carried away in the moment.

I think the last time we got enthusiastic was 2012 Summer Olympics.
Even then we complained that "some bloke with a torch" caused traffic jams!


----------



## Zedcars

I used to get excited when Sound On Sound magazine plopped onto my doormat - all that lovely new gear to lust after. Of course, I couldn’t afford it at the time, so it was more of a dream. Now I have an income where I can afford new gear every so often, the excitement has kinda gone a bit. And yet, if my younger self could see how much cheaper and better the gear of today has become, he’d probably wet himself with glee!

I think I’m just too spoilt.

However, this new library has piqued my interest - might be because it’s new and we still don’t know the finer details. When we actually get to see and hear whatever it is, the test will be if the excitement remains (for me).

(I’m a Brit too by the way)


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

James H said:


> ossibly us Brits are more excited with the 2 very British things here. We don't get much to get excited over on this rainy gloomy island


If something as simple as a new library following the same concepts we know from several dozens of libraries over the past decade might be seen as something that is changing the World of sampleism than yes. This must be some strange british over-excitement.

A new library could not be any more underwhelming after the wording of that teaser


----------



## Denkii

I agree with rocking.xmas.man.
Not because I'm personally not interested in a new library but solemnly because of the buildup.
It's like if ford says "biggest announcement" and all we got was a new car. It's what their business is after all. There would have to be something new...automated driving, running on old shoelaces...whatever.


----------



## Michel Simons

Orchestral schmorchestral. It's so damn obvious that it is going to be a prescription service it's not funny anymore.

(Btw, I am not a Brit or Brit.)


----------



## Zero&One

rocking.xmas.man said:


> A new library could not be any more underwhelming after the wording of that teaser



Party pooper!

Anyway, we only know some recording was done there 19 month ago. It might not even be anything to do with this.
I'm sure either way, someone will moan on the day!


----------



## mikeh-375

michelsimons said:


> Orchestral schmorchestral. It's so damn obvious that it is going to be a prescription service it's not funny anymore.
> 
> (Btw, I am not a Brit or Brit.)


I've already got one of those with my chemist and doctor.........so I thought you sent samples to them, looks like they might actually sell them too..what a strange world we live in.
(just joking @michelsimons, your English will be better than my attempts in your native language...guaranteed)


----------



## jbuhler

Michael Antrum said:


> I’m sorry, but I must protest. Us Brits do not get ‘excited’.
> 
> We may become mildly enthused about something, in an understated way of course. We may even look forward to forthcoming events with interest, but excited ?
> 
> Never.


Except Paul, who is always "very excited" about the latest SF library.


----------



## Michel Simons

mikeh-375 said:


> I've already got one of those with my chemist and doctor.........so I thought you sent samples to them, looks like they might actually sell them too..what a strange world we live in.
> (just joking @michelsimons, your English will be better than my attempts in your native language...guaranteed)



You haven't even heard / read my German...


----------



## Zedcars

Do you think this will be a full library covering all the sections or just strings? From the marketing it sounds more ambitious, but you never know if that’s just hyperbole.


----------



## BezO

I'm eyeing SSB&W. Hopefully this means a nice sale on those.


----------



## NYC Composer

I was going to speculate about the speculations of the speculators....but I just made myself a sandwich instead.


----------



## givemenoughrope

I bet it’s a King Buzzo toolkit with Dale Crover megatoms.


----------



## D Halgren

givemenoughrope said:


> I bet it’s a King Buzzo toolkit with Dale Crover megatoms.


The river where your legs meet, sprouts wings and runs, and crawls


----------



## zolhof

givemenoughrope said:


> I bet it’s a King Buzzo toolkit with Dale Crover megatoms.



A wild Trevor Dunn appears!


----------



## givemenoughrope

Taking it way back...
I was thinking a Lustmord/Pigs of the Roman Empire or Ambient Hostile Takeover or even Hung Bunny toolkit. But really, that’s all sort of un-tool kit-able. As are all tool kits imo. 

How about just a George Crumb Black Angels library? 100GB.


----------



## stfciu

Just wanted to point out it's been only 5 days and we have 283 posts. That gives around 56 posts per day.
Get yourself together


----------



## robgb

If anyone thinks Spitfire is upset by all of this free publicity....


----------



## Zero&One

stfciu said:


> Just wanted to point out it's been only 5 days and we have 283 posts. That gives around 56 posts per day.
> Get yourself together



That should be 70 pages by launch.

Then we can start a new thread "Thought's on new SA release?"


----------



## jamwerks

Pretty sure that they got the idea here from me!! Expecting a pm soon from Paul or Christian with links for free products (ah shucks guys, you shouldn't have). 

I "complained" about the Studio series room being overly small whilest the Orcestral series being too ambient (except for SCS). This should fall somewhere in-between and will undoubtedly contain all the orchestral sections. Hope that they've gone all out here (instruments, arts, programming). Wouldn't mind it being expensive if the quality is there. Wouldn't that be cool if in their own player?


----------



## Chungus

jamwerks said:


> Pretty sure that they got the idea here from me!! Expecting a pm soon from Paul or Christian with links for free products (ah shucks guys, you shouldn't have).
> 
> I "complained" about the Studio series room being overly small whilest the Orcestral series being too ambient (except for SCS). This should fall somewhere in-between and will undoubtedly contain all the orchestral sections. Hope that they've gone all out here (instruments, arts, programming). Wouldn't mind it being expensive if the quality is there. Wouldn't that be cool if in their own player?


I'd love if it were all that, but I'm greatly tempering my expectations. Wouldn't be the first time SF flaunted a big name and talked big hype, to ultimately come with a greatly underwhelming product.

And hell, for all we know, this could be another texture pad thing.


----------



## j_kranz

My guess... they are ditching us nerds and going back to making fighter planes.


----------



## angeruroth

James H said:


> Then we can start a new thread "Thought's on new SA release?"


Pretty sure if their next teaser slogan is 'mind the gap' it will be Loegria v2, but if it's 'keep calm' then it will be some kind of Tundra v2. I don't know enough 'typical phrases' to say more silly things about that.

Anyway, I liked the guessing before the diary thing, because a new lib doesn't change the sampling world. It could be awesome, yes, but... Maybe, if that's it, then something else could be going on around the release...


----------



## Zedcars

When I watched the template video from Christian, and they were talking about using two reverbs, one being a convo, I wondered if they might be doing their own dedicated CR plugin with sampled spaces including Maida Vale studios. If they give away this huge template thing, then it seems a bit half-hearted to then have to load up your own CR, when a Spitfire CR could be tailored specifically to their own libraries.


----------



## PaulieDC

My guess is some massive new library specifically with the LSO. We already have a couple LCO choices and for orchestras we have Chamber, Studio and Symphonic plus Hans Zimmer strings. Seems like a huge library specifically working with LSO would appeal to many who want THAT orchestra recorded wet in that hall at their disposal. PreSonus uses LSO samples for built-in sounds for Notion, their notation software, so we know the LSO is OK with working with library creators.

I'm probably WAY off but I can't think of anything else, lol.


----------



## CT

The main thing, if this is true, is the fact that it's an actual established orchestra being sampled, instead of a contracted group. First time that would be done, right?


----------



## PaulieDC

miket said:


> The main thing, if this is true, is the fact that it's an actual established orchestra being sampled, instead of a contracted group. First time that would be done, right?


I don't enough about all the libraries out there, but even SSS's description says they assembled 60 top players, which is what most usually do. To me that would be easier than trying to nail down an entire orchestra who has a live schedule and get them to commit to a long tedious sampling project. IF Spitfire did this, it would be something to have a specific orchestra from Timpani to Piccolos, all being LSO in their home hall.


----------



## Paul Cardon

If this is BBC's Orchestra, I'm wonderfully interested to hear how the performances come together. It's not just the sampling and the scripting and the room that matters, but the balance and techniques of the players themselves.

Lots of sample libraries are recorded with a collection of studio musicians pieced together and those libraries can potentially have wildly varying performances and balance across the sections, room and scripting aside (i.e. some of my issued with the Spitfire Studio Series which was recorded with session musicians IIRC). So I've got myself giddy for the idea of an entire sampled *orchestra*; a group that plays together routinely and knows how to balance with each other and shares techniques and all that good good stuff, yeah?


----------



## jtnyc

It's hilarious to me that some folks think that sleuthing out what Spitfire is going to release is somehow insensitive or unfair to Spitfire. Aww, poor Spitfire. That's.... hilarious! They tease and hype usually with little to no information. They invite speculation, yet if someone figures out what it is they should keep quiet dare they ruin the reveal for Spitfire? If thats the case what's the point of even discussing it?


----------



## Fleer

Not to mention sending prank emails ...


----------



## prodigalson

jtnyc said:


> It's hilarious to me that some folks think that sleuthing out what Spitfire is going to release is somehow insensitive or unfair to Spitfire. Aww, poor Spitfire. That's.... hilarious! They tease and hype usually with little to no information. They invite speculation, yet if someone figures out what it is they should keep quiet dare they ruin the reveal for Spitfire? If thats the case what's the point of even discussing it?



You guys must be great fun at surprise parties. 

Regardless, the discretion was more intended to not embarass the person responsible for unintentionally giving the game away than to not hurt spitfires feelings.


----------



## Fleer

300 and counting


----------



## Alex Fraser

I’m hoping they’ve sampled more stuff in the room. Maida Vale drum sessions please.

Also, I’d like to know if Spitfire are banging their heads on the table or chuckling with glee as this thread blasts past 300.


----------



## Mornats

Isn't Miroslav Philharmonik recorded with an established orchestra though, so Spitfire won't be the first to do so? The Royal Czech Philharmonic if I recall correctly.


----------



## Random Guy

jtnyc said:


> It's hilarious to me that some folks think that sleuthing out what Spitfire is going to release is somehow insensitive or unfair to Spitfire. Aww, poor Spitfire. That's.... hilarious! They tease and hype usually with little to no information. They invite speculation, yet if someone figures out what it is they should keep quiet dare they ruin the reveal for Spitfire? If thats the case what's the point of even discussing it?


It's all about the money. Nothing else matters.


----------



## PaulieDC

Mornats said:


> Isn't Miroslav Philharmonik recorded with an established orchestra though, so Spitfire won't be the first to do so? The Royal Czech Philharmonic if I recall correctly.


Certainly could be. I can't believe by 2019 there isn't a highly sampled established orchestra library out there. I just guessed at LSO because it matches the hint Spitfire put out.


----------



## PaulieDC

jtnyc said:


> It's hilarious to me that some folks think that sleuthing out what Spitfire is going to release is somehow insensitive or unfair to Spitfire. Aww, poor Spitfire. That's.... hilarious! They tease and hype usually with little to no information. They invite speculation, yet if someone figures out what it is they should keep quiet dare they ruin the reveal for Spitfire? If thats the case what's the point of even discussing it?


Ba da bing!
Actually, for me it's intentional... I'm hoping my LSO library guess is IT and they make me sign a non-disclosure agreement and for compensation they hand over a free copy... MUHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Zedcars

Random Guy said:


> It's all about the money. Nothing else matters.


Of course profit is important for any comapany, but I disagree they are entirely profit driven.

Not sure if you’re aware, but their LABS range was donating the proceeds to charity, and although they are now free, Spitfire donate a portion of their overall profits to charity.

Also they support other charities where they can:
https://www.magicbreakfast.com/news/spitfire-audioThey also donate to Safer London and Unicef. I read they donated £100,000 a few years ago, and believe their work in this area is ongoing.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I'd ignore that comment.

In life I have generally found, myself included, that the more financially and professionally successful you become, the more your reputation amongst your peers and clients becomes far more important than a few pounds/dollars here or there.

It's just a typical internet throwaway insult that is all too easy to hurl at those who have become successful. Unless the poster has personal knowledge of the individuals concerned and their personal motives ?

Of course running a company where you are personally responsible for the livelihoods of all your employees - you know - making sure their salaries are in the bank so they can put food on the table, feed and clothe their families etc, tends to focus the mind somewhat.

I wonder if the poster has ever been awake all night staring at the ceiling, worrying if he will manage to make the payroll at the end of the month. I've done that, and I've nothing but respect for anyone that sticks their head above the parapet and tries to build something.

Frankly if someone said that to my face, I'd find it deeply insulting. There again, I doubt that anyone would ever say that to my face, much safer to hurl personal abuse from behind a keyboard.

That's not to say there are not those who run their business in an entirely cynical manner. They exist - but they generally get found out pretty quickly.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

I wasn’t sure about Random Guy’s speculation at first, but after giving it some more thought I’ve come around. The end of capitalism really would be Spitfire’s biggest announcement yet. Really looking forward to this one!


----------



## Michel Simons

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I wasn’t sure about Random Guy’s speculation at first, but after giving it some more thought I’ve come around. The end of capitalism really would be Spitfire’s biggest announcement yet. Really looking forward to this one!



Or maybe it's a subscription service.


----------



## JohannesR

“Hi there! Paul Thomson from Spitfire Audio. I’m very excited today to be able to present to you a total game changer, something truly unique....

Spitfire Staccato Expansion Packs!”


----------



## Chungus

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I wasn’t sure about Random Guy’s speculation at first, but after giving it some more thought I’ve come around. The end of capitalism really would be Spitfire’s biggest announcement yet. Really looking forward to this one!


Good one. I laughed out loud.


----------



## decredis

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I wasn’t sure about Random Guy’s speculation at first, but after giving it some more thought I’ve come around. The end of capitalism really would be Spitfire’s biggest announcement yet. Really looking forward to this one!


And where better than England, the late-mediaeval pioneer of bourgeois commodity relations, for kickstarting the end of capitalism? 

But the innovation that will make this library a real game-changer in the history of sampling will be the massively multi-player key-switched and cc-based democratic control of the development of the new post-capitalist society.

Our mod wheels, for example, will collectively determine the relative preponderance of localised cooperatives vs more centralised state forms of social ownership.


----------



## VinRice

Zedcars said:


> (I’m a Brit too by the way)



I wonder how many people get the Z-Cars reference. I remember when the world was Black & White at 405 lines...


----------



## VinRice

...and we didn't have politics then. The Queen ran everything personally and told us all about it at Christmas.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

VinRice said:


> I wonder how many people get the Z-Cars reference. I remember when the world was Black & White at 405 lines...


Brian Blessed in B/W. And the theme lives on at Everton FC!


----------



## PaulBrimstone

VinRice said:


> ...and we didn't have politics then. The Queen ran everything personally and told us all about it at Christmas.


LOL. Brilliant!


----------



## tomosane

I'm gonna start posting "Hey guys, what if it's a subscription service??? Get it??? LOL :DDDDDD" in this thread every 12 hours starting tomorrow


----------



## D Halgren

tomosane said:


> I'm gonna start posting "Hey guys, what if it's a subscription service??? Get it??? LOL :DDDDDD" in this thread every 12 hours starting tomorrow


Why wait?:dodgy:


----------



## Mornats

PaulBrimstone said:


> Brian Blessed...



Deeply sampled Brian Blessed if you don't mind.


----------



## VinRice

tomosane said:


> I'm gonna start posting "Hey guys, what if it's a subscription service??? Get it??? LOL :DDDDDD" in this thread every 12 hours starting tomorrow



Haven't you heard? It's a _prescription_ service...


----------



## Zero&One

Mornats said:


> Deeply sampled Brian Blessed if you don't mind.



As long as they sample him saying "Hawk men... Diiiiive"


----------



## VinRice

It's a collaboration between Spitfire, The BBC and the _National Health Service. _SA are going full-on misty-eyed Brexit 1950s Utopia.


----------



## VinRice

We'll be eating rats for tea but at least we'll have a Blue Passport™...


----------



## CT

D Halgren said:


> Why wait?:dodgy:



Dodgy question!


----------



## Fleer

Back. Stop. 
London Calling.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I've just been told that there has been a security leak at Spitfire, and that Paul Thompson's walkthrough of their latest product has been leaked - seems to be a new hardware library too....


----------



## Fleer

You shouldn't have shared that. Now the cat's out of the bag.


----------



## Mornats

Think of the NDA!!!


----------



## Zedcars

How are the legato patches on that thing?


----------



## Michael Antrum

Zedcars said:


> How are the legato patches on that thing?




I understand they are more exhausting than exhaustive....


----------



## markleake

Spitfire are moving into the lesser-known fitness segment of the VI sampling market.


----------



## Fleer

markleake said:


> Spitfire are moving into the lesser-known fitness segment of the VI sampling market.


Sure makes VI Control sound like something entirely different.


----------



## GingerMaestro

I’m intrigued to know if anyone has an idea of how long it would take to record a whole sample library with a Symphony orchestra ? This must be a very time consuming and massively expensive project before they even get to the months of editing and scripting etc...Sample libraries are such a niche market, knowing the rough cost of hiring players in London, I’m amazed that this would be a cost effective library to make. I assume they do it section by section in the hall, albeit with the players in their correct seating positions. Although for a library like symphobia some of the tutti hits and multi section patches I understand are recorded at the same time, which is why they sound more realistic. Any insight would be much appreciated..fascinating if nothing else


----------



## jamwerks

Recording individual notes wouldn't be any different with an orchestra that always plays together vs players that don't even know each other.


----------



## Hadrondrift

GingerMaestro said:


> This must be a very time consuming and massively expensive project


Here comes the most expensive sample library of all times.


----------



## Zedcars

Hadrondrift said:


> Here comes the most expensive sample library of all times.


Not if it’s part of a subscription service.


----------



## VinRice

GingerMaestro said:


> I’m intrigued to know if anyone has an idea of how long it would take to record a whole sample library with a Symphony orchestra ? This must be a very time consuming and massively expensive project before they even get to the months of editing and scripting etc...Sample libraries are such a niche market, knowing the rough cost of hiring players in London, I’m amazed that this would be a cost effective library to make. I assume they do it section by section in the hall, albeit with the players in their correct seating positions. Although for a library like symphobia some of the tutti hits and multi section patches I understand are recorded at the same time, which is why they sound more realistic. Any insight would be much appreciated..fascinating if nothing else



Two years and several hundred thousand GBP I imagine.

I hope for Standard and Pro versions of strings, brass, woods and pitched and un-pitched percussion. Above all, I would want it to be comprehensive and _consistent. _This is the last chance with that room so they better have recorded everything.

I can't afford any of it but that's not really the point.


----------



## Alex Fraser

VinRice said:


> I can't afford any of it but that's not really the point.


Fingers crossed I can afford to buy it on Black Friday 2027..


----------



## jbuhler

VinRice said:


> Two years and several hundred thousand GBP I imagine.
> 
> I hope for Standard and Pro versions of strings, brass, woods and pitched and un-pitched percussion. Above all, I would want it to be comprehensive and _consistent. _This is the last chance with that room so they better have recorded everything.
> 
> I can't afford any of it but that's not really the point.


Or maybe, just because so many are saying "subscription," it's a different kind of subscription, the older model of subscription where you receive, say, an instrument a month, which you own to the extent that you own any commercial sample library, for some recurring fee (say $50 or $75) over the term that it takes (2, 3, 4 years) to release the full library. The instruments would also be available for purchase separately at a somewhat higher price. That would be one way of making it at least seem more affordable. I have no special information, of course, and I have doubts it would even be possible to do something like this, but it does manage to combine subscription and a new orchestral library.

For some reason I can't put my finger on, I do feel like there might be something unusual about the way this library is priced, even if this particular speculation is way off base.


----------



## J-M

This thread is still going on?


----------



## D Halgren

MrLinssi said:


> This thread is still going on?


Its gonna be a long month!


----------



## Denkii

Yet everyone knows it's gonna be a subscription.


----------



## DerGeist

Honestly, since Maida Vale has come up a few times my dream would have been for a BBC Radiophonic Workshop Toolkit. The ultimate sound design library.


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

Could you guys enlight me? What is so special about maida vale? Is it as overly reverberant as air lyndhurst?


----------



## JohnG

rocking.xmas.man said:


> What is so special about maida vale



Idle speculation, but was just staying there -- it's near Abbey Road studios. 

It's near the road too. Just FYI

But anyone's guess.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

DerGeist said:


> Honestly, since Maida Vale has come up a few times my dream would have been for a BBC Radiophonic Workshop Toolkit. The ultimate sound design library.


Agreed—so many possibilities, and smack dab in my own field of interest. Put it on the to-do list, Spitfire!


----------



## Zero&One

rocking.xmas.man said:


> Could you guys enlight me? What is so special about maida vale? Is it as overly reverberant as air lyndhurst?



It's getting flattened is one. As for sound, I don't know but numerous artists have performed there, so there's a ton of history... getting flattened


----------



## Alex Fraser

rocking.xmas.man said:


> Could you guys enlight me? What is so special about maida vale? Is it as overly reverberant as air lyndhurst?


The history of the place for one. It’s been used to record some of the biggest acts in history, plus a large number of classical albums. 

That the space will sound amazing is a given I think.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

jbuhler said:


> Or maybe, just because so many are saying "subscription," it's a different kind of subscription, the older model of subscription where you receive, say, an instrument a month, which you own to the extent that you own any commercial sample library, for some recurring fee (say $50 or $75) over the term that it takes (2, 3, 4 years) to release the full library. The instruments would also be available for purchase separately at a somewhat higher price. That would be one way of making it at least seem more affordable. I have no special information, of course, and I have doubts it would even be possible to do something like this, but it does manage to combine subscription and a new orchestral library.
> 
> For some reason I can't put my finger on, I do feel like there might be something unusual about the way this library is priced, even if this particular speculation is way off base.


Maybe it's a subscription where they mail you eight CDs for a penny. Great deal!

...but then they start sending you all these records you don't want and you have to mail them back each time or pay some exorbitant fee. And you can't seem to cancel and now you have all these Def Leppard and Cypress Hill records you didn't really ask for...


----------



## colony nofi

Oh this subscription stuff has me totally mystified. I just don't get why people are so certain given communication from various folks at spitfire at different times.

As for why Maida Vale is important in all this... that the Maida Vale BBC studios are being flattened is most definitely the end of an era. Just when good coffee has begun to be available in the general area too... (I'm not an addict....ha!)

Abbey Road is NOT in Maida Vale (though close, St John's Wood is NW8, BBC is I think W9 from memory). 

I think all the pieces of the puzzle have been put together here long ago. (And if they're indeed wrong, then that particular project will be seen soon enough!). 

As for the subscription service speculation - lets just wait and see shall we? I'm kind of mystified as to why we are seeing so much around it with spitfire and not other large companies that composers use like native instruments, VSL etc etc. (There are TONNES!) Why this rampant fervor? I'm genuinely intrigued by it!


----------



## Zedcars

colony nofi said:


> Oh this subscription stuff has me totally mystified. I just don't get why people are so certain given communication from various folks at spitfire at different times.


At this point, it’s just become a running joke in this thread. I think those that have invested a lot into Spitfire products are against it for obvious reasons. And, as you say, SA have denied it publicly on this forum.

I’m on the fence, since I have a few of their libraries but can’t afford all the stuff that I’m interested in getting. To be able to use anything for a monthly subscription might be interesting.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> At this point, it’s just become a running joke in this thread. I think those that have invested a lot into Spitfire products are against it for obvious reasons. And, as you say, SA have denied it publicly on this forum.
> 
> I’m on the fence, since I have a few of their libraries but can’t afford all the stuff that I’m interested in getting. To be able to use anything for a monthly subscription might be interesting.


But if you believe in a subscription hard enough, wondrous things can happen! Believe!

Running gags aside, I’m not sure I’d want access to all the Spitfire products at once.
First, where would I put them all? Second, I’m still integrating the Studio Orchestra into my template in order to use it in the way I like to work. If I had to do this for every SF product, I’d never get around to composing ever again.

For me, Spitfire products are something to be saved for, a treat to buy and something to explore and use when you finally get them. YMMV etc.


----------



## rudi

Alex Fraser said:


> For me, Spitfire products are something to be saved for, a treat to buy and something to explore and use when you finally get them. YMMV etc.


Well put - the same here... I got several of their libraries in one of the wishlist sales, and I am only now starting to appreciate their depth and character.


----------



## Denkii

As a hobbiest: Let's say you invest 1000,- into spitfire libraries, at 30 bucks a month it would take you 33 months to break even with a subscription. As most of you know, that's not even much with regards to what you can spend for their products over that time period. Looking at how many libraries Spitfire releases over the course of 33 months, I'd much rather pay a subscription fee for as long as they are relevant. If they want to stay relevant, they will have to release new products. If they do, you're better off with a subscription. The moment they stop being relevant, you will want to invest into someone else's products anyway and not being stuck with then outdated libraries you once bought.

As a professional: I can see why you would have a different opinion on this as these are basically your assets for your job and not owning them feels wrong. Generally speaking not owning can put off some folks and I get that. But there are circumstances where it would be beneficial.

Personally? I mean I buy stuff regularly, just not in monthly intervals. So it kinda is...a very expensive subscription with the result of me owning things. But I'd personally be in favor of a subscription because I'd feel like the possible loss of that investment can be justified more easily than say buying Orbis and finding out it's totally useless to what I am doing. Subscription would also enable people to demo stuff first hand and if they still offered buying their libraries in addition to subscriptions, there would be more people who could afford being customers, generating a steady income and everyone else could just buy if they wanted.


----------



## Zero&One

Totally agree @Alex Fraser and @rudi 
I'm still exploring HZ strings from December, the different mics, sections and how they interact with each other. Mind blowing.


----------



## DavidY

Denkii said:


> As a hobbiest: Let's say you invest 1000,- into spitfire libraries, at 30 bucks a month it would take you 33 months to break even with a subscription. As most of you know, that's not even much with regards to what you can spend for their products over that time period. Looking at how many libraries Spitfire releases over the course of 33 months, I'd much rather pay a subscription fee for as long as they are relevant. If they want to stay relevant, they will have to release new products. If they do, you're better off with a subscription. The moment they stop being relevant, you will want to invest into someone else's products anyway and not being stuck with then outdated libraries you once bought.


I think it depends. 
I'm totally a hobbyist and one of my main constraints is not spending enough time on my hobby! 

So I don't spend enough time on it to justify $30/month or whatever. Seeing that go out of the bank account every month would just depress me as I'd never feel I got value from it - a bit like the classic scenario of people having a gym membership which they rarely use.

The libraries which I've bought so far are more than enough to keep me occupied for years.

But for people who want to be able to access the full range of everything, and who can spend enough time on it to justify it, yes I can see the advantages.


----------



## Hadrondrift

Subscription comes with a psychological component, at least for me (non-professional). It feels different to regularly pay a monthly amount than to make a one-time purchase, regardless of the absolute cost of each option. The former involves the feeling of dependence and constant "debt". Direct purchase has something final. It feels good to own something that can't be taken away from you ("For now!", says the philosopher, thinking of the finiteness of life).

Theoretically, in the future I could find myself in a situation where I would no longer be able to pay the monthly amount. I am not so financially secure that this would be unimaginable. In this case, I would lose access to all content. That wouldn't happen if I had bought parts of it. In this sense, a direct purchase can provide for bad times.

On the other hand, as Denkii wrote, subscription would free me from sitting around on completely obsolete libraries that I no longer use anyway. Here I would even be _happy_ if I didn't own them. And what if I lose my hearing? I'm not Beethoven, so I might just quit making music. If I had subscribed, I wouldn't have spent any money for nothing. Hurray, but deaf? Don't know...


----------



## VinRice

jbuhler said:


> For some reason I can't put my finger on, I do feel like there might be something unusual about the way this library is priced, even if this particular speculation is way off base.



I agree actually. I'm hoping there will be a bit more imagination in how this is priced and modularised since the totality is likely to be very spendy.


----------



## Zedcars

Other sample companies price their big libraries in tiers of say basic, standard, and pro where you have access to varying amounts of mic positions, articulation detail depending on which option you go for. I know they have done this to a certain extent, but feel there is still room to offer more options. Seems like a win, since you just upgrade to the next tier when you need to. Practically all the libraries I’ve ever bought have never been fully utilised - I suspect that’s the case for everyone. I’m essentially paying for samples that I will never use.

If there was some technological solution whereby I only paid for the samples I actually want to use, then that’d be amazing. Sounds like that would be very hard to implement. Not even sure it’s possible.


----------



## jbuhler

Kind of off topic here, but received an email from SF a few minutes ago encouraging me to upgrade from Albion One to one of their "scoring" bundles. Nothing so strange about that in itself, except that I already own all the instruments in every one of the bundles they proposed to me. Seems like they should have a better algorithm for bulk email than "let's select everyone who has Albion One," especially if they are going to make it seem like it has been "personalized."


----------



## lucianogiacomozzi

jbuhler said:


> Kind of off topic here, but received an email from SF a few minutes ago encouraging me to upgrade from Albion One to one of their "scoring" bundles. Nothing so strange about that in itself, except that I already own all the instruments in every one of the bundles they proposed to me. Seems like they should have a better algorithm for bulk email than "let's select everyone who has Albion One," especially if they are going to make it seem like it has been "personalized."



Same here! I misread it as "Scoring Brushes" too, so was thinking it was a new library or something...


----------



## ridgero

Same here, impersonal algorithm.


----------



## Mornats

No idea how relevant this is but if you look at the filepath for the image on this page here https://www.spitfireaudio.com/community/spitfire-audio-events (the "London calling..." one) it has "labs page banner" in there (see below). I wonder if this is anything to do with Labs? Spitfire BBC Symphony Orchestra Labs?!



Code:


https://d1t3zg51rvnesz.cloudfront.net/p/images/cms2/876/smc0201_labs-page-banner-v02.jpg


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Mornats said:


> https://d1t3zg51rvnesz.cloudfront.net/p/images/cms2/876/smc0201_labs-page-banner-v02.jpg


I don't think so, @Mornats. It’s just the launch reminder they’ve ben splashing around social media today.


----------



## Mornats

Ah we can but dream though!


----------



## Floris




----------



## Christof

Maybe a new mobile phone?


----------



## Zedcars

It’s all a bit drip-feedy isn’t it. Was hoping for a bit more...maybe a leg shot, or a bit of cleavage? The slowest strip tease in history.


----------



## lpuser

This is slowly going on my nerves. Honestly, I don´t mind a teaser and I don´t mind product infos, but wasting my time with links to Youtube videos which say plain nothing is bad marketing. Over and out.


----------



## shnootre

lpuser said:


> This is slowly going on my nerves. Honestly, I don´t mind a teaser and I don´t mind product infos, but wasting my time with links to Youtube videos which say plain nothing is bad marketing. Over and out.


This x 1000. I refuse to even watch their dumb keynote at this point. What could possibly live up to this prolonged hype anyway?


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

lpuser said:


> This is slowly going on my nerves. Honestly, I don´t mind a teaser and I don´t mind product infos, but wasting my time with links to Youtube videos which say plain nothing is bad marketing. Over and out.



Well, I actually just moved their mail in the junk without opening it. And that I do often and not because I dislike Spitfire but simply because I am bored by their marketing these days. I get simply not excited anymore. Back then, it that was probably like 4 -5 years ago where I opened almost every mail from them, simply because they still had to say something with their mails and I was always interested into there announcements. These days it has become for me also a bit jaring. I think they have their best intentions with their products and mails, but imo their marketing approach is a kind of getting old by using the same nebolous formula over and over again --> which gets then boring. I am very sure they would excite many more people if they would do it like they did back then: Not so many mails, good information and well..good products! I hope they will go or find back their "exploring new water" and "pushing boundaries" fire again. Their old orchestral ranges were great and I would like something like that but with an updated approach regarding programming and deep sampling. You know like a symphonic orchestra 2.0.


----------



## pfmusic




----------



## playz123

19 pages so far of speculation, comments and hyping. Is anyone still not clear that these types of things draw attention whether you agree with them or not?  Carry on...or go make some music, whichever you prefer!


----------



## Manaberry

I agree with most comments here. SA act like all our attention is earned for good. But in fact, it's the job of a company to feed us with decent promo material, not dust.

Here, there is nothing to get hype about. I will wait for a keynote recap instead.
LAMP Teaser went straight to the point, that was quite unexpected!
The company is used to work for gives some information about their upcoming keynote (names of WIP software, so you can get hype about what's coming in the keynote.)

I'm a proud owner of SSO, SSOP, HZPP, Percussion. We all received the "Win everything" survey. They are taking the temperature right now. _Maybe _they do not tease anything yet to carefully select upcoming products to show at the keynote.. based on the survey results.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Definitely some people here who don’t like their good old British Marmite. Come on, what’s wrong with a bit of fun? You can always ignore it...


----------



## borisb2

Hard to ignore it when you get spam-emails (empty email with a link to an empty website is one of the worst kind)


----------



## lpuser

PaulBrimstone said:


> Definitely some people here who don’t like their good old British Marmite. Come on, what’s wrong with a bit of fun? You can always ignore it...



Yes, sure ...  The only thing here is: Many of use are big fans of Spitfire so when they mail something it is hard to ignore it, because at least I would expect some informations associated with it.
First they have sent a huge image with ... nothing. Then they send a video with ... nothing. That is where the fun ends for me, to be honest. And that´s not the first time but it keeps repeating.

Not sure how marketing was done in the past, but when Best Service was still their distributor in Germany, I did enjoy Best Service sending mails whenever there was actually something to announce regarding Spitfire Audio. Now that they have taken over and canceled their relationship, most of the mails I am getting are not worth reading.

Don´t they understand that too much of this could possibly result in less interest? Hmmm ....


----------



## PaulBrimstone

lpuser said:


> Yes, sure ...  The only thing here is: Many of use are big fans of Spitfire so when they mail something it is hard to ignore it, because at least I would expect some informations associated with it.
> First they have sent a huge image with ... nothing. Then they send a video with ... nothing. That is where the fun ends for me, to be honest. And that´s not the first time but it keeps repeating.
> 
> Not sure how marketing was done in the past, but when Best Service was still their distributor in Germany, I did enjoy Best Service sending mails whenever there was actually something to announce regarding Spitfire Audio. Now that they have taken over and canceled their relationship, most of the mails I am getting are not worth reading.
> 
> Don´t they understand that too much of this could possibly result in less interest? Hmmm ....


Good points all. I have to admit Spitfire might have done better to at least hold the marketing until much closer to the event. A month or more is a looooong time to wind people up.


----------



## WindcryMusic

I share many of the sentiments being expressed. I am and will remain a big fan of Spitfire's libraries, as the vast array of them in my template should attest. But they have exhausted me with their recent marketing efforts, and now I find myself just deleting most of their emails as soon as they arrive, which is probably not their intent I think.


----------



## Mornats

I know right? All this for a subscription...


----------



## GingerMaestro

Orchestral Tools began teasing us in January about their new Web Shop and still nothing seems to have be officially announced regarding the release date.They need to time their release carefully, so Spitfire doesn't steal their Thunder _Sheet _(musical joke..not funny I know ! It's the best I could come up with !)


----------



## jamwerks

WindcryMusic said:


> I share many of the sentiments being expressed. I am and will remain a big fan of Spitfire's libraries, as the vast array of them in my template should attest. But they have exhausted me with their recent marketing efforts, and now I find myself just deleting most of their emails as soon as they arrive, which is probably not their intent I think.


There are internet tools that allow Spitfire to see how many of their emails lead to certain actions (not opening, opening, going to their website, watching embeded video, for how long, etc...). If they keep sending out all those emails, they've calculated it's in their favor...


----------



## porrasm

shnootre said:


> This x 1000. I refuse to even watch their dumb keynote at this point. What could possibly live up to this prolonged hype anyway?



Spitfire going free to play? It's popular for games why not sample libraries! /s


----------



## tack

jamwerks said:


> There are internet tools that allow Spitfire to see how many of their emails lead to certain actions (not opening, opening, going to their website, watching embeded video, for how long, etc...).


This is the reason I unsubscribed from Spitfire's bulk mails: they rarely include any actual text, just link to images which my email client blocks anyway as remote content, and I refuse to load images riddled with tracking identifiers. There is less than zero value in receiving completely blank emails, especially at the (IMO unreasonable) frequency Spitfire sends them.

And indeed, _most_ email clients block remote images, so I never really understood the point of Spitfire's email marketing campaigns. Unless the vast majority just blindly loads all remote images without caring about the reason they were blocked to begin with. Sadly, that's probably the case.


----------



## Kony

tack said:


> This is the reason I unsubscribed from Spitfire's bulk mails: they rarely include any actual text, just link to images which my email client blocks anyway as remote content, and I refuse to load images riddled with tracking identifiers. There is less than zero value in receiving completely blank emails, especially at the (IMO unreasonable) frequency Spitfire sends them.


Same here


----------



## DavidY

tack said:


> This is the reason I unsubscribed from Spitfire's bulk mails: they rarely include any actual text, just link to images which my email client blocks anyway as remote content, and I refuse to load images riddled with tracking identifiers. There is less than zero value in receiving completely blank emails, especially at the (IMO unreasonable) frequency Spitfire sends them.


I agree they're very annoying - although I don't think Spitfire are the only company who do this.


----------



## Zedcars

As annoying as some of you find it, the psychology behind this style of marketing is well proven. The aim at the beginning is to reveal enough tidbits to get the conversation started while still leaving most the announcements for the keynote. I think it is actually called drip marketing, because that’s exactly how it works. The idea is to tickle the intrigue neurons in the brain so that you get a dopamine hit when more info is trickled out and the interest grows in the brain - a bit like a tumour, only less painful and non life threatening!

These marketing techniques have been used countless times before by other companies. You may very well piss off a small percentage by tickling the annoyance neurons by mistake, but you will get more hits than misses.

(Disclaimer: I am not a qualified psychologist, or marketing expert, so you may very well find the above to be utter bs! This does not affect your statutory rights. Interest rates may vary)


----------



## JFB

It appears Spitfire marketing is staffed by Behaviorists and VI Control is their Skinner Box


----------



## tack

Zedcars said:


> As annoying as some of you find it, the psychology behind this style of marketing is well proven. The aim at the beginning is to reveal enough tidbits to get the conversation started while still leaving most the announcements for the keynote.


I just want to underline that that's not what "annoying" was referring to in the previous few posts.


----------



## chocobitz825

Maybe they’re releasing a plug-in that makes you feel like you’re sitting in, recording and mixing in a popular British studio....

That revolutionary invaluable tech has never been created before 

*eyeballs waves plugins*

/sarcasm


----------



## ism

Alternate theory: it can sometime be fun to guess what’s coming next even from minimal teasers.

It’s just just that this particular thread for the most part, isn’t fun.

(Or maybe it’s just that the ‘its a subscription model’ get exponentially less funny after the 16th or 17th time).


----------



## Denkii

Symphonic, chamber and studio lines are merged into one giant product, available for their own player. This includes the SSO pro version update.

Also since they don't have to pay NI it'll drop in price compared to the Kontakt equivalents.

A man can dream.


----------



## D Halgren

ism said:


> Alternate theory: it can sometime be fun to guess what’s coming next even from minimal teasers.
> 
> It’s just just that this particular thread for the most part, isn’t fun.
> 
> (Or maybe it’s just that the ‘its a subscription model’ get exponentially less funny after the 16th or 17th time).


So then you're saying it's a subscription?

Sorry, couldn't resist


----------



## ism

D Halgren said:


> So then you're saying it's a subscription?



... and even more exponentially not funny on the 18 or 19th time. 


Ok, I think what I need to do now is abandon this thread and write some actual music ...


----------



## benmrx

Well......, that was a waste of time.


----------



## Raphioli

chocobitz825 said:


> Maybe they’re releasing a plug-in that makes you feel like you’re sitting in, recording and mixing in a popular British studio....



First plugin that'll be compatible with VR.


.......Air Studios VR

/sarcasm


----------



## kevinh

“London calling” will be a partnership with apple/google to release subscription only “evo themed ringtones and swarm busy tones” . Recorded with AIR studio telephones and curated by the AIR studio receptionist who answers all calls.


----------



## Parsifal666

All I can think of is the Clash. Maybe it's a Punk rock niche plug in...Joe Strummer's Punk Band Toolkit.

I want it to be a subscription announcement as well btw.


----------



## Alex Fraser

jamwerks said:


> There are internet tools that allow Spitfire to see how many of their emails lead to certain actions (not opening, opening, going to their website, watching embeded video, for how long, etc...). If they keep sending out all those emails, they've calculated it's in their favor...


Yeah, they use Mailchimp for email marketing and those tools are absolutely available. They know what they're doing and know that their email delivery numbers are sustainable.


----------



## porrasm

"The future of music is with you the composers. That is why we think it's import that you're able to compose wherever you are. All new libraries will be iOS exclusive.

Introducing Spitfire Mobile, this is London calling."


----------



## Eptesicus

The sound after the "This is London Calling" sounds like a subtly masked orchestra tuning up...


----------



## JF

Eptesicus said:


> The sound after the "This is London Calling" sounds like a subtly masked orchestra tuning up...


I thought the same.


----------



## Parsifal666

Alex Fraser said:


> Yeah, they use Mailchimp for email marketing and those tools are absolutely available. They know what they're doing and know that their email delivery numbers are sustainable.



Impressive marketing technique imo.


----------



## ed buller

Bagpipe Library

e


----------



## europa_io

My money is on Hans Zimmer making his famous London orchestral samples available to us via Spitfire. And maybe some part of his special sampling rig maybe via a next generation of the Spitfire VST.


----------



## jamwerks

SF hasn't put out that many libraries lately, considering the number of Sample Choppers that must work there (20?). Hopefully one or more libraries will be ready for purchase already at launch date!


----------



## C.Franzén

Thom Yorke Vocals


----------



## dgburns

-rant on-

21 pages of a thread to talk about a 45 sec Youtube video that is -

'An announcement to say that there will be an announcement'

-rant off-


----------



## lucianogiacomozzi

Constant posts saying "This is London Calling" then £10 to go and see the announcement in person...?


----------



## Fleer

411 posts of sheer mystery.


----------



## germancomponist

So now, where is the best pub in London?


----------



## Chungus

germancomponist said:


> So now, where is the best pub in London?


You'll know it by it having at least three kebab stores in its vicinity.


----------



## tack

dgburns said:


> 21 pages of a thread to talk about a 45 sec Youtube video that is -


Welcome to the thread. As with all other posts here, we value your contribution to keeping the conversation moving.


----------



## erica-grace

europa_io said:


> My money is on Hans Zimmer making his famous London orchestral samples available to us via Spitfire. And maybe some part of his special sampling rig maybe via a next generation of the Spitfire VST.



Almost, not quite.

Hans' modular synth rack:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/12/a2/10/12a210fc032bd72ea7260d282a3616b0.jpg

will be made available to everyone with an internet connection.


----------



## jaketanner

I think we can all agree, that whatever this announcement is, it had better be spectacular.. LOL


----------



## Gerbil

germancomponist said:


> So now, where is the best pub in London?



It was The Pontefract Castle off of Wigmore but they closed it down!


----------



## ed buller

germancomponist said:


> So now, where is the best pub in London?







__





De Hems Dutch Bar, Soho


Dutch-themed, traditional 19th-century pub serving Dutch and Belgian beers, British menu and snacks.



www.dehemspub.co.uk





can't go wrong...big sofa's and oranjeboom

best

ed


----------



## bote

I mean....dammit....was about to punch purchase on a couple of libraries for which I have a more-or-less immediate need. Not enthralled with having to figure out if I should wait for the somewhat unlikely subscription option or just pull the pin. This has not endeared me to to SA, for whom I otherwise have some fondness. Savvy marketing or simple annoyance.....I lean toward the latter.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

bote said:


> I mean....dammit....was about to punch purchase on a couple of libraries for which I have a more-or-less immediate need. Not enthralled with having to figure out if I should wait for the somewhat unlikely subscription option or just pull the pin. This has not endeared me to to SA, for whom I otherwise have some fondness. Savvy marketing or simple annoyance.....I lean toward the latter.



Just to reiterate for anyone that hasn’t seen my earlier posts. It’s not subscription.


----------



## Denkii

SpitfireSupport said:


> Just to reiterate for anyone that hasn’t seen my earlier posts. It’s not subscription.


Mind giving us answers for all the other ideas as well?


----------



## N.Caffrey

everything seems to suggest a subscription at this point


----------



## Guffy

BBC orchestra at Abbey Road 1 with Shawn Murphy, in collaboration with Jasper for the ultimate performances? Sampled deeper than deep itself. With bespoke as an added bonus.
Including multiple IRs of both AR and AIR.
Oh and optional Alan Meyerson mixes.
Plus OT style shop to purchase individual sections.


----------



## Denkii

Guffy said:


> BBC orchestra at Abbey Road 1 with Shawn Murphy, in collaboration with Jasper for the ultimate performances? Sampled deeper than deep itself. With bespoke as an added bonus.
> Including multiple IRs of both AR and AIR.
> Oh and optional Alan Meyerson mixes.
> Plus OT style shop to purchase individual sections.


Something close to this would honestly be the only thing that could live up to the hype they are trying to build.


----------



## Alex Fraser

SpitfireSupport said:


> Just to reiterate for anyone that hasn’t seen my earlier posts. It’s not subscription.








VI control will never let this go... 

Bits and gags aside - if this is what some of us believe it might just be - then SF will have justified the hype and created something that no-one else will be able to replicate.

I'm proper hyped but l'll be on holiday when the news drops. Maybe I can sneak away once the kids are in bed to watch the presentation..


----------



## mikeh-375

germancomponist said:


> So now, where is the best pub in London?



Aaahh now that I need not speculate on...hic...


----------



## jaketanner

Here is the big question. Do I buy SSS now to get the update IF that’s what they’re doing before prices go up, or wait. LOL


----------



## Alex Fraser

jaketanner said:


> Here is the big question. Do I buy SSS now to get the update IF that’s what they’re doing before prices go up, or wait. LOL


Actually, I reckon the price of SSS might go down.


----------



## jaketanner

Alex Fraser said:


> Actually, I reckon the price of SSS might go down.



That would be something...then I will wait..I'm in no rush, but just didn't want it to go up because they added things or made it all PRO versions. Hoping for an update to SCS though which I already have...that would be great.


----------



## porrasm

Just received a 25% discount coupon from Spitfire which expires on Monday. Seems like they really want people to buy something before the announcement.


----------



## jaketanner

porrasm said:


> Just received a 25% discount coupon from Spitfire which expires on Monday. Seems like they really want people to buy something before the announcement.


This tells me then, that they may not be releasing any new library. Because why tempt people to spend their money BEFORE a new library announcement? I think it might just be upgrades.


----------



## D Halgren

jaketanner said:


> This tells me then, that they may not be releasing any new library. Because why tempt people to spend their money BEFORE a new library announcement? I think it might just be upgrades.


Christian already confirmed several times on YouTube that it is a new library.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Trying to get in the mood of the thread...

OR they want you to buy something before the event, knowing that you'll also want to buy something after the event !

OR it's subscription, and they want to offer something to the "loyal customers" before they really feel bad.


----------



## Alex Fraser

....or there's no link to the upcoming event and that a 25% limited run sale makes a bit of money for Spitfire over the weekend. The simplest explanation is usually etc etc..


----------



## GingerMaestro

Does anyone remember what is their normal Black Friday Discount is it 30%-40% I do actually want to pick up SCS, however might be prudent to wait until their new announcement ?


----------



## Zedcars

jaketanner said:


> This tells me then, that they may not be releasing any new library. Because why tempt people to spend their money BEFORE a new library announcement? I think it might just be upgrades.



At 20:35 CH mentions a new library:


----------



## porrasm

GingerMaestro said:


> Does anyone remember what is their normal Black Friday Discount is it 30%-40% I do actually want to pick up SCS, however might be prudent to wait until their new announcement ?



Black Friday was 30% IIRC. On Christmas they did a 40% sale.


----------



## BassClef

I just now purchased Iceni with the 25% off. I chatted live with them and was promised that the big announcement WAS NOT a bigger discount on Iceni!


----------



## VinRice

I'm confused. Hadn't we worked out what this is already? Why is this still going?

London Symphony Orchestra recorded at Maida Vale. The announcement is at the Barbican because thats the LSO's new home and I expect there will also be a hook up between Spitfire and the new music education facility being built there.

Please stop now.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

BassClef said:


> I just now purchased Iceni with the 25% off. I chatted live with them and was promised that the big announcement WAS NOT a bigger discount on Iceni!



ANNOUNCING

ALBION THREE - REBIRTH OF A CLASSIC


----------



## GingerMaestro

I think everyone was speculating the BBC Symphony Orchestra not London Symphony Orchestra (they are very different) The BBC are based in Maida Vale, the LSO at the Barbican. The choice of Barbican is probably not relevant, it's just a venue. Although would have made more sense to use the iconic Maida Vale if that's where it was recorded.


----------



## Dynamoe

I have taken the day of from work and send the wife and kids away for the weekend. So now it better live up to the hype!!


----------



## VinRice

GingerMaestro said:


> I think everyone was speculating the BBC Symphony Orchestra not London Symphony Orchestra (they are very different) The BBC are based in Maida Vale, the LSO at the Barbican. The choice of Barbican is probably not relevant, it's just a venue. Although would have made more sense to use the iconic Maida Vale if that's where it was recorded.



You're absolutely right. My Bad.


----------



## Denkii

So maybe it's SALSO?
This would also be the upgrade from SSO to LSO which would be the promised pro version?
Does this mean buy SSO now or wait for subscription?
Too many questions.


----------



## Digivolt

I wonder what the £10 gets you as it starts at 15:30 but the original announcement was for 19:00 so I guess they will be putting on a show/tech demo for the people getting tickets and then do a big reveal at 19:00 for everyone else ?


----------



## Michel Simons

Alex Fraser said:


> I'm proper hyped but l'll be on holiday when the news drops. Maybe I can sneak away once the kids are in bed to watch the presentation..



Of course you can. The kids can go to bed early, very early. It's a holiday after all.


----------



## Michel Simons

GingerMaestro said:


> Does anyone remember what is their normal Black Friday Discount is it 30%-40% I do actually want to pick up SCS, however might be prudent to wait until their new announcement ?



Christmas wishlist discounts for single products have been mostly 40% last year (and maybe even the year before). Even for fairly new products. I know I am going to wait until the end of the year.


----------



## AdamKmusic

Wonder if this discount means that it’s not a new library?


----------



## CT

SpitfireSupport said:


> Just to reiterate for anyone that hasn’t seen my earlier posts. It’s not subscription.



Ok. But....


----------



## jamwerks

Well for the last 10 years, SF has been pretty synonimus with Air Studios with just a handful of libraries done elsewhere. Announcing a "move" out of that hall would be a major news item in itself!


----------



## Eptesicus

VinRice said:


> I'm confused. Hadn't we worked out what this is already? Why is this still going?
> 
> London Symphony Orchestra recorded at Maida Vale. The announcement is at the Barbican because thats the LSO's new home and I expect there will also be a hook up between Spitfire and the new music education facility being built there.
> 
> Please stop now.



Close, but wrong orchestra.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Working theory = BBC Symphony Orchestra recorded at Maida Vale studios in London.


----------



## Eptesicus

Alex Fraser said:


> Working theory = BBC Symphony Orchestra recorded at Maida Vale studios in London.



It's a good theory. I also reckon it will be this.


----------



## akvalley

What if this is not sample library product launch at all?

My other guess is that Spitfire Audio is expanding its corporate profile beyond the sample library company and the record company (SA_Recordings) into some other area.

Maybe adding a production music library, a line of effects, or some hardware (effects or hybrid synthesis). It's not far-fetched when you consider these few examples: Output has the Platform desk, Movement, and Portal. Heavyocity has Punish. 8DIO has the Sequential Prophet.


----------



## Alex Fraser

akvalley said:


> What if this is not sample library product launch at all?
> 
> My other guess is that Spitfire Audio is expanding its corporate profile beyond the sample library company and the record company (SA_Recordings) into some other area.
> 
> Maybe adding a production music library, a line of effects, or some hardware (effects or hybrid synthesis). It's not far-fetched when you consider these few examples: Output has the Platform desk, Movement, and Portal. Heavyocity has Punish. 8DIO has the Sequential Prophet.


It’s an interesting idea for sure. I like it. CH has offered a “copy of the new thing we’re launching this month” (paraphrase) as a prize in a recent vlog though, so it looks to be a sample library or software of sorts.


----------



## funnybear

GingerMaestro said:


> I think everyone was speculating the BBC Symphony Orchestra not London Symphony Orchestra (they are very different) The BBC are based in Maida Vale, the LSO at the Barbican. The choice of Barbican is probably not relevant, it's just a venue. Although would have made more sense to use the iconic Maida Vale if that's where it was recorded.



The BBC Orchestra actually does a lot of their London concerts at the Barbican. I am a regular especially on their Sunday composer focus days.


----------



## Daniel James

Regardless of what this is, I have had this in my head for days now xD



-DJ


----------



## jaketanner

SpitfireSupport said:


> Just to reiterate for anyone that hasn’t seen my earlier posts. It’s not subscription.



So if someone wanted to buy the SSS now, is it a good idea, or should we wait. Because I gotta tell you, if I do get it, and I should have waited, there's gonna be a major uproar.. LOL And some super disgruntled customers


----------



## pawelmorytko

Just bought the event tickets, very excited! Fingers crossed for a live orchestra performance, but I'm sure it'll an interesting event no matter what.


----------



## Zedcars

SA
BBC
SO​


----------



## Zedcars

pawelmorytko said:


> Just bought the event tickets, very excited! Fingers crossed for a live orchestra performance, but I'm sure it'll an interesting event no matter what.


I’m jealous. I would have gone, but instead I have a 7 hour mandatory health and safety course where I will learn how to wash my hands properly, not leave data sensitive documents lying around and how I must treat everyone with respect regardless of religion, racial background or sexual orientation. If you need a course to tell you those things then you shouldn’t have been employed in the first place!

(I work in the NHS)

Anyway, enjoy!


----------



## PaulBrimstone

pawelmorytko said:


> Just bought the event tickets, very excited! Fingers crossed for a live orchestra performance, but I'm sure it'll an interesting event no matter what.


Well, no matter which stage they use, there is a BIG performance space there. Big enough for ...?


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Zedcars said:


> I’m jealous. I would have gone, but instead I have a 7 hour mandatory health and safety course where I will learn how to wash my hands properly, not leave data sensitive documents lying around and how I must treat everyone with respect regardless of religion, racial background or sexual orientation. If you need a course to tell you those things then you shouldn’t have been employed in the first place!
> 
> (I work in the NHS)
> 
> Anyway, enjoy!


Boris will probably have sold you to Trump by then, so get those tickets. Oops, very, very tasteless and bad joke — sorry!


----------



## Zedcars

PaulBrimstone said:


> Boris will probably have sold you to Trump by then, so get those tickets. Oops, very, very tasteless and bad joke — sorry!


His days are numbered. It’s so absurd that he’s our PM that I think I must have slipped into one of those parallel universe thingy-ma-jobbies. I just need to find the portal like in Dungeons and Dragons and I will find my way back home.


----------



## Morning Coffee

Here we go, bringing politics into a thread. Funny how some people can do it, but others can't or get banned.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Morning Coffee said:


> Here we go, bringing politics into a thread. Funny how some people can do it, but others can't or get banned.


Ah, but a little less, shall we say _harsh_, than the previous miscreant? And maybe I’ll be banned tomorrow.


----------



## VinRice

Eptesicus said:


> Close, but wrong orchestra.



I know. I already 'fessed up...


----------



## borisb2

dgburns said:


> -rant on-
> 
> 21 pages of a thread to talk about a 45 sec Youtube video that is -
> 
> 'An announcement to say that there will be an announcement'
> 
> -rant off-



I don‘t see why that’s ranting. That is brutal reality.


----------



## givemenoughrope

Dynamoe said:


> I have taken the day of from work and send the wife and kids away for the weekend. So now it better live up to the hype!!


Trust me. Those things are fantastic.


----------



## Fleer

Daniel James said:


> Regardless of what this is, I have had this in my head for days now xD
> 
> 
> 
> -DJ



Yep. Keeps crawling back in.


----------



## AllanH

They started recording in the Air Hall, then moved to the Studio. With the " ... calling", I realized they must be recording in a phone booth for their next major releases.


----------



## rudi

Tickets sold out.... oh, well there's still the live streaming


----------



## justthere

I'm complaining - apologies for the rant. TL;DR the hype thing is good to get fans talking but problematic otherwise.

I have to say - less hype would have been nice. They send a 25%-off coupon which expires tomorrow two weeks before the announcement of a new thing? (I know other people do it too - I don't like it when anyone does it.) The problem with hype is that this massive announcement has to be great or I'll feel like I should have used the coupon. And I might feel that way anyway. I felt like that new Kepler thing was a pretty big letdown, and they pitched it pretty hard. Same to me about the Studio Strings. With respect because I dig what he has accomplished in terms of raising the bar for libraries, you do kind of get the same level of intensity from Paul Thomson no matter what it is. So it would have been more considerate of their users to say, "we're about to drop a massive new orchestra on you" rather than saying nothing at all - what if it's some lame one-finger-composer or pre-recorded orchestra moves thing or not even a library at all? What if it's "send us your sequence and we'll have the BBC Orchestra play it for you for too much money via a monthly subscription"? Not likely at all, but that could be considered "big".

Let's say I bought the SSO or the Chamber Strings (or the extra mic positions for what I have so I can really be a "professional"? They should have called those "Extended" - otherwise it's kind of insulting), and then they announced a BBC Orchestra library that included divisi and had all of the same articulations but more of them and sounded better and had better scripting for legato than the older things. Now, we are all told as users that it's great to have more than one string library, but I'm here to tell you that's not as great as it sounds. I don't want three that do it - I want one that does - how many templates am I supposed to maintain? And color me uninterested in layering things. It's not like the older stuff would stop working or be suddenly awful, but it's all about *sonics, usability and workflow* for most of us who make a living at this, and if they have, say, improved their legatos or made larger ensembles more agile via some new recording and scripting tech, wouldn't I be unhappy about what I just bought? Would I be happy to see it sitting in my library stack knowing they could have prevented buyer's remorse simply by not being so vague? If the new thing is good, won't people buy it like crazy anyway without all the fashionable Apple-keynote hype? I watched the OT keynote and really, really wished they hadn't done that. Those kinds of things, like the ones from Apple and OT and virtually everyone else, are really fun if you aren't spending money on the products, and mostly seem designed to exalt the company's "elite" image to the point where their users are willing to throw money out the door at anything - but that model isn't good for pro users - it's good for fans. (Witness the sparse attention to higher-end users at Apple.) I'd like it if a company who makes music products treats us all like pros with the marketing. (Solution: don't buy anything until they announce the new thing. Certainly. At full price.)

Okay, so let's say they go the Orchestra Tools route and combine their own (unproven - great!) sample playback engine with an online store where one could buy individual articulations and so on. (OT hasn't released that yet.) So I didn't buy something at a discount, in exchange for waiting for two weeks to become a beta-tester and have more ways to buy things that I already have. That sounds unappealing to me. 

My real point is that this really does need to be undeniably, game-changingly great (_actually_ game changing, not just a new interface or a dryer room or a different orchestra - wasn't the previous one great? That's what all the shouting about it said) for all the noise generated, or Spitfire might become another one of those companies whose emails get bumped to spam until one actually needs something from them. And I don't think they should have discounts near product announcements - just after them. Who needs that stress? It's a bit about the money involved but mostly that I don't like being treated that way. Hmmm - let's see what they sell that I want that wouldn't be in a new orchestra library. Not ensemble, chamber or first-chair/solo strings, not woodwinds or brass, not orchestra percussion, not harp, not anything done at Air...


----------



## Paul Cardon

justthere said:


> And color me uninterested in layering things. It's not like the older stuff would stop working or be suddenly awful, but it's all about *sonics, usability and workflow* for most of us who make a living at this, and if they have, say, improved their legatos or made larger ensembles more agile via some new recording and scripting tech, wouldn't I be unhappy about what I just bought?



This is falling into a bit of a rabbit hole outside of this specific announcement but:

Most people don't use one library and stick to it, do they? Scripting aside, every library is a unique static capture of a set of performances, players, and space, i.e. the a2 trombone staccatos in one library are often quite different than another. The great advantage to having multiple libraries is the ability to pick and choose performances and techniques. I've never had the best success sticking entirely to one library when creating a piece of music, and otherwise, I tend to pick and choose libraries for a project depending on the project's style and the character of the performances and recording configuration (mics, perspectives, space).

Not trying to dunk on you, but I think most would agree that there's good merit in having a small breadth of libraries for tackling different styles and projects, yeah?


----------



## richhickey

I've got the scoop!

===
London Calling - the world's first library to sample the elusive fahn-boie (from our own collection). Played with a unique technique called 'panting', this is the first library ever to capture the sound of hundreds of fahn-boies panting, captured surreptitiously in the wild over a month-long period. Though fahn-boies only play a few notes, the library features _thousands of repetitions_! In addition to Close, Tree, Outrigger, Wide, Ribbon and M/S, we've added special in the mouth, in the next room, in the street outside and in the next town mic positions. This takes the one minute of actual material and turns it into a whopping 476GB! We've used our physics engine, the next revision of which we've dubbed 'Pavlov', to reproduce the unique sound of fahn-boies spinning in place, a technique they use to fill the void waiting for some actual sound. Also included are tons of EVOs because, well, for no good reason really.
===


----------



## markleake

justthere said:


> I'm complaining - apologies for the rant. TL;DR the hype thing is good to get fans talking but problematic otherwise.
> 
> I have to say - less hype would have been nice. They send a 25%-off coupon which expires tomorrow two weeks before the announcement of a new thing? (I know other people do it too - I don't like it when anyone does it.) The problem with hype is that this massive announcement has to be great or I'll feel like I should have used the coupon. And I might feel that way anyway. I felt like that new Kepler thing was a pretty big letdown, and they pitched it pretty hard. Same to me about the Studio Strings. With respect because I dig what he has accomplished in terms of raising the bar for libraries, you do kind of get the same level of intensity from Paul Thomson no matter what it is. So it would have been more considerate of their users to say, "we're about to drop a massive new orchestra on you" rather than saying nothing at all - what if it's some lame one-finger-composer or pre-recorded orchestra moves thing or not even a library at all? What if it's "send us your sequence and we'll have the BBC Orchestra play it for you for too much money via a monthly subscription"? Not likely at all, but that could be considered "big".
> 
> Let's say I bought the SSO or the Chamber Strings (or the extra mic positions for what I have so I can really be a "professional"? They should have called those "Extended" - otherwise it's kind of insulting), and then they announced a BBC Orchestra library that included divisi and had all of the same articulations but more of them and sounded better and had better scripting for legato than the older things. Now, we are all told as users that it's great to have more than one string library, but I'm here to tell you that's not as great as it sounds. I don't want three that do it - I want one that does - how many templates am I supposed to maintain? And color me uninterested in layering things. It's not like the older stuff would stop working or be suddenly awful, but it's all about *sonics, usability and workflow* for most of us who make a living at this, and if they have, say, improved their legatos or made larger ensembles more agile via some new recording and scripting tech, wouldn't I be unhappy about what I just bought? Would I be happy to see it sitting in my library stack knowing they could have prevented buyer's remorse simply by not being so vague? If the new thing is good, won't people buy it like crazy anyway without all the fashionable Apple-keynote hype? I watched the OT keynote and really, really wished they hadn't done that. Those kinds of things, like the ones from Apple and OT and virtually everyone else, are really fun if you aren't spending money on the products, and mostly seem designed to exalt the company's "elite" image to the point where their users are willing to throw money out the door at anything - but that model isn't good for pro users - it's good for fans. (Witness the sparse attention to higher-end users at Apple.) I'd like it if a company who makes music products treats us all like pros with the marketing. (Solution: don't buy anything until they announce the new thing. Certainly. At full price.)
> 
> Okay, so let's say they go the Orchestra Tools route and combine their own (unproven - great!) sample playback engine with an online store where one could buy individual articulations and so on. (OT hasn't released that yet.) So I didn't buy something at a discount, in exchange for waiting for two weeks to become a beta-tester and have more ways to buy things that I already have. That sounds unappealing to me.
> 
> My real point is that this really does need to be undeniably, game-changingly great (_actually_ game changing, not just a new interface or a dryer room or a different orchestra - wasn't the previous one great? That's what all the shouting about it said) for all the noise generated, or Spitfire might become another one of those companies whose emails get bumped to spam until one actually needs something from them. And I don't think they should have discounts near product announcements - just after them. Who needs that stress? It's a bit about the money involved but mostly that I don't like being treated that way. Hmmm - let's see what they sell that I want that wouldn't be in a new orchestra library. Not ensemble, chamber or first-chair/solo strings, not woodwinds or brass, not orchestra percussion, not harp, not anything done at Air...


No offence intended justthere, but I think you need to relax. Same thing I would say to some others here.

Spitfire are good at marketing, and have a big audience and following. But at the end of the day *this is *_*just an add for an upcoming library, or similar*._ If that's stressful for you, take a break, forget about it... just check back in once it's released.

It's better to go enjoy life than stress about Spitfire announcements.


----------



## jtnyc

I have paid little attention to this and spent no time at all trying to guess what it is. Why, because it’s a waste of my time and really.... who cares. I’ll take a look at it when it comes out. If it’s great, great. If it’s not, no problem. I’m not upset about all the hype because I pretty much ignore it. I mean what is there to get upset about really? If you like the hype and the guessing and the jokes then great, enjoy it, if you don’t, forget about it until it’s released, but why rant and rail against Spitfire? This is how they do it and it seems to work very well for them. Look at this thread.....


----------



## jaketanner

justthere said:


> The problem with hype is that this massive announcement has to be great or I'll feel like I should have used the coupon


I am with you on this...however, I believe that it's possible that they sent the coupon so people can buy cheaper now, then they announce a library-wide upgrade to everything...so what you got, is still worth it, but now you have the upgrade to it. Example..you buy SCS with coupon, then they announce that it's now just the PRO version and you get the extra mics...wouldn't that have been worth it? It could very well be something along these lines...they're due for a major update across the board, and have said so a few times in the past.


----------



## pinki

markleake said:


> Spitfire are good at marketing, and have a big audience and following. B



I think that depends what you mean by good. 
Apple and Spitfire should shag each other senseless and produce overpriced music-boxes that once sounded like the real thing.


----------



## justthere

I don’t feel dunked on in the slightest. Everyone can do this their own way, of course. And I have multiple string libraries, but not because I want to switch between them - it’s because things get superseded by others. My current template is for SSS. I have VSL’s cube, but I don’t use it so much. I’m moving away from 8Dio, I use Audio Modeling sometimes but rarely, Hollywood Strings is off the table, QLSO is off the table, I incorporate bits of the MetArks because speed, but Symphobia and Albion One gather dust. That’s just strings we are talking about. I am looking for a more unified approach but also I’m looking for one thing that doesn’t have the same weak spots and that I can live inside. For some years that was VSL, until the tech improved (in the dynamic cross fading area, for example) and the libraries began to emote more on their own. But while that was going on everything gelled (it was all bone-dry but that’s what Altiverb was for). I’d hoped that SSO would go all the way there, but for me it didn’t. So the reason lots of us use multiple libraries is because of the inherent flaws in each one. I’d like to avoid that. And I don’t know how that can be done, but I’m not making the huge trash announcements - Spitfire are. 

To be clear, also - I’m not saying that I expect a single orchestra library to also sound like Bunker Strings or something. I’m saying I’d like a big orchestra that’s scalable down to solo instruments, and that maybe they should try doing IR’s for the solos so they could be recorded dry but match the big stuff when needed. I want them to figure it out, and if they are going to pitch so heavily, I want it to be great or maybe they should tone it down in the future. 

This is of course based on my personal taste. I’m sure lots of people get results out of only having Albion One, or having that plus solo strings, or the like. What I resist is layering to get something satisfactory (cumbersome) or having to work around incomplete or flawed recordings or weird programming. 



Paul Cardon said:


> This is falling into a bit of a rabbit hole outside of this specific announcement but:
> 
> Most people don't use one library and stick to it, do they? Scripting aside, every library is a unique static capture of a set of performances, players, and space, i.e. the a2 trombone staccatos in one library are often quite different than another. The great advantage to having multiple libraries is the ability to pick and choose performances and techniques. I've never had the best success sticking entirely to one library when creating a piece of music, and otherwise, I tend to pick and choose libraries for a project depending on the project's style and the character of the performances and recording configuration (mics, perspectives, space).
> 
> Not trying to dunk on you, but I think most would agree that there's good merit in having a small breadth of libraries for tackling different styles and projects, yeah?


----------



## jononotbono

SpitfireSupport said:


> Just to reiterate for anyone that hasn’t seen my earlier posts. It’s not subscription.



Are you sure? 😂


----------



## justthere

Ahh, the Internet. Where I can see something that I don’t agree with, and tell readers what I think. And then someone else sees something that they don’t agree with, and tells readers how to act. 

I’m really not in need of calming down further: I’m not talking about how KC barbecue is inferior to Texas barbecue - you know, something of real consequence. I’m saying I don’t like the marketing tactics. Not too upsetting - just wrong. But thanks, markleake! The point of my post was, yes, it is likely a library, but the cagey marketing is trendy and feels juvenile, and is a little insulting _to me. _ I won’t lose sleep over it, but I said what I said. Your mileage may vary. 

It _was_ quite a long post - so long that I have a warning at the top. jtnyc, if you like reading stuff like that post, great. If you don’t, ignore it. That _was_ good advice, wasn’t it?

I’d like for us all to get something good and have our composing needs met, and I’d personally like it done in a less-sensationalistic manner. And I think that if they insist on this kind of marketing that they really should deliver something great - not okay, not a nice supplemental thing, not the same thing in a different room, not with a famous name attached but no greater functionality. I’m not suggesting that readers stop being excited. Or that they do anything at all. My comment is about the company. 

I’m hoping that people who aren’t interested in this kind of response didn’t read it all the way to the end. Sorry about that.


----------



## NYC Composer

25 pages. Obviously, it works.

The first rule of Spitfire is.....talk about Spitfire. The second rule of Spitfire is.....TALK ABOUT SPITFIRE!!


----------



## Denkii

His name was Paul Thomson.
His name was Paul Thomson.
His name was Paul Thomson.


----------



## Zero&One

I love it. Yes it get's on my nerves at times, but it's all part of the build up.

Bit like having a Christmas present in my house for a month, just staring at it. I know when I open it will be something I don't need... but I'll convince myself otherwise.


----------



## Alex Fraser

James H said:


> I love it. Yes it get's on my nerves at times, but it's all part of the build up.
> 
> Bit like having a Christmas present in my house for a month, just staring at it. I know when I open it will be something I don't need... but I'll convince myself otherwise.


Agreed. I'm here for the hype. It's great that Spitfire are able to do the whole keynote/marketing thing. Beats an email press release and I'm all in. Bring it.



justthere said:


> I’m not talking about how KC barbecue is inferior to Texas barbecue - you know, something of real consequence.



Also, what's the difference between KC barbecue and Texas barbecue? Both sound delicious.


----------



## Grilled Cheese

I don’t mind a bit of hype. The only thing I don’t like is when I take the time to watch a company’s promotional video, only to discover that it basically says nothing. Time wasted.


----------



## AndyP

Since I work in marketing I am always surprised how well it works to arouse interest by mysterious announcements alone.
So I think they do it very well.


----------



## mikeh-375

mikeh-375 said:


> Twain could sum up the thread so far, with a little doctoring...
> 
> _"..how vast a return of speculation for such a trifling investment of fact..."_



Good one Mike....well worth a repeat performance on t'internet...


----------



## jbuhler

justthere said:


> I’m not talking about how KC barbecue is inferior to Texas barbecue - you know, something of real consequence.


Fighting words.


----------



## DS_Joost

jbuhler said:


> Fighting words.



As a Dutch guy with an American girlfriend from KC... them's real fighting words indeed!


----------



## justthere

Alex Fraser said:


> Also, what's the difference between KC barbecue and Texas barbecue? Both sound delicious.



Oh, my friend. 

I don’t mean to launch an off-topic discussion, so let’s just say that one is at its worst still pretty great and one is at its best maybe okay and just leave it at that. Though if you are ever in Austin, go get some Franklin barbecue, and then go have what Kansas City or Memphis have to offer, and get back to me.


----------



## jbuhler

justthere said:


> Oh, my friend.
> 
> I don’t mean to launch an off-topic discussion, so let’s just say that one is at its worst still pretty great and one is at its best maybe okay and just leave it at that. Though if you are ever in Austin, go get some Franklin barbecue, and then go have what Kansas City or Memphis have to offer, and get back to me.


I've had a lot of Austin area BBQ (including Franklin's) as well as KC and Memphis. Really, it's not even a competition—I travel through KC all the time and never find it worth the time to stop for its BBQ. I'll also just leave it at that.


----------



## justthere

Out of curiosity - is anyone else interested in having performance legato patches respond to UACC messages such that one could load both core and decorative patches and the performance legato and sul G legato patches in the same Kontakt instance on the same channel and switch between them with articulation switches, and the perf legato patches would respond as the others do, i.e. do nothing until they get their UACC message?

(With the goal being single tracks for everything, and not having to use the less- functional legacy legato perf palette patches.)

Yes there’s a workaround, but I’m hoping that in whatever new product is released this is a possibility. 

Or am I missing something?


----------



## justthere

DS_Joost said:


> As a Dutch guy with an American girlfriend from KC... them's real fighting words indeed!


 Happy to hear she’s teaching you the vernacular.  Here in Austin we argue about barbecue all the time. But it stays civil, of course. We don’t argue about KC barbecue, because there’s no argument.


----------



## jbuhler

justthere said:


> Out of curiosity - is anyone else interested in having performance legato patches respond to UACC messages such that one could load both core and decorative patches and the performance legato and sul G legato patches in the same Kontakt instance on the same channel and switch between them with articulation switches, and the perf legato patches would respond as the others do, i.e. do nothing until they get their UACC message?
> 
> (With the goal being single tracks for everything, and not having to use the less- functional legacy legato perf palette patches.)
> 
> Yes there’s a workaround, but I’m hoping that in whatever new product is released this is a possibility.
> 
> Or am I missing something?


Is this needed if your DAW supports articulation sets? I'm not quite sure what the advantage of having them all be on the same channel, if you have articulations sets that will do the channel routing from a common set of keyswitches/articulation labels.


----------



## Alex Fraser

justthere said:


> Oh, my friend.
> 
> I don’t mean to launch an off-topic discussion, so let’s just say that one is at its worst still pretty great and one is at its best maybe okay and just leave it at that. Though if you are ever in Austin, go get some Franklin barbecue, and then go have what Kansas City or Memphis have to offer, and get back to me.


I love the U.S barbecue culture. Here in the UK, "BBQ" basically means grilling burgers over "briquettes" in the pouring rain, also known as British Summer. "Pitmasters" on Netflix was an eye opener for me..

Anyway.. Spitfire. Not much else to say until the next hype drop I guess. In the meantime, I'm very much enjoying the SF Studio Orchestra.


----------



## justthere

jbuhler said:


> Is this needed if your DAW supports articulation sets? I'm not quite sure what the advantage of having them all be on the same channel, if you have articulations sets that will do the channel routing from a common set of keyswitches/articulation labels.



I often work in Pro Tools, which doesn’t support that (but does support the insanely useful Composer’s Toolkit Pro from MIDIKinetics, which mitigates that somewhat). Cubase supports expression maps of course, so there’s that - but what I like about the single channel thing is that every patch on the channel listens to controllers even if it’s not playing anything, so that when I make an adjustment on that track of, say, mic levels on a patch with five or six different mic perspectives, every patch is changed. So the extended, core, sul G, and legato all change at once. That’s pretty handy. I’m only now setting up Cubase with maps to see if I can get the same behavior. If this is how you use Cubase, when you change to an articulation that’s on another channel, does Cubase also spit a controller update to that target?


----------



## Alex Fraser

justthere said:


> Out of curiosity - is anyone else interested in having performance legato patches respond to UACC messages such that one could load both core and decorative patches and the performance legato and sul G legato patches in the same Kontakt instance on the same channel and switch between them with articulation switches, and the perf legato patches would respond as the others do, i.e. do nothing until they get their UACC message?
> 
> (With the goal being single tracks for everything, and not having to use the less- functional legacy legato perf palette patches.)
> 
> Yes there’s a workaround, but I’m hoping that in whatever new product is released this is a possibility.
> 
> Or am I missing something?


I do just this with Logic's articulation sets and UACC KS. Works fine, for the most part. Load multiple instances in the same Kontakt and use a combination of UACC and/or midi channel to route stuff around.


----------



## justthere

Alex Fraser said:


> I do just this with Logic's articulation sets and UACC KS. Works fine, for the most part. Load multiple instances in the same Kontakt and use a combination of UACC and/or midi channel to route stuff around.



Cool. And you have to use a combo of channel changes and UUAC, because Performance Legato patches don’t respond to UACC, right?

Wish they would fix this instead of my having to use OrangeTree’s MindControl to only enable the perf legato when it sees the UACC command that the legato patch’s creators invented.


----------



## Robert_G

I got the email a while ago....looked at the date for the announcment.....said to myself "come back to VI in 3 weeks and see what it is". Until then i dont care and this upcoming announcement has no bearing whatsoever on any purchases i make between now and then...except at spitfire...lol.

Because spitfire wants us to catch the bones they throw at us for 3 weeks....they are the one company i wont buy from until the announcement happens...so for people like me....they kind of shoot themselves in the foot.


----------



## jbuhler

justthere said:


> I often work in Pro Tools, which doesn’t support that (but does support the insanely useful Composer’s Toolkit Pro from MIDIKinetics, which mitigates that somewhat). Cubase supports expression maps of course, so there’s that - but what I like about the single channel thing is that every patch on the channel listens to controllers even if it’s not playing anything, so that when I make an adjustment on that track of, say, mic levels on a patch with five or six different mic perspectives, every patch is changed. So the extended, core, sul G, and legato all change at once. That’s pretty handy. I’m only now setting up Cubase with maps to see if I can get the same behavior. If this is how you use Cubase, when you change to an articulation that’s on another channel, does Cubase also spit a controller update to that target?


I use Logic. 



Alex Fraser said:


> I do just this with Logic's articulation sets and UACC KS. Works fine, for the most part. Load multiple instances in the same Kontakt and use a combination of UACC and/or midi channel to route stuff around.


This is what I do too, using Logic keyswitches to map to midi channel and to CC32 in order to change articulations within the particular instrument. I haven't encountered any issues with other CCs not being routed properly.


----------



## idematoa




----------



## akvalley

Alex Fraser said:


> It’s an interesting idea for sure. I like it. CH has offered a “copy of the new thing we’re launching this month” (paraphrase) as a prize in a recent vlog though, so it looks to be a sample library or software of sorts.



Spitfire Audio announced that "THE ULTIMATE CINEMATIC ORGAN - Symphonic Organ" is releasing Thursday, August 22. Maybe this is the "new thing" CH was talking about.


----------



## D Halgren

akvalley said:


> Spitfire Audio announced that "THE ULTIMATE CINEMATIC ORGAN - Symphonic Organ" is releasing Thursday, August 22. Maybe this is the "new thing" CH was talking about.


This does put a spin on things.


----------



## justthere

jbuhler said:


> I use Logic.
> 
> 
> This is what I do too, using Logic keyswitches to map to midi channel and to CC32 in order to change articulations within the particular instrument. I haven't encountered any issues with other CCs not being routed properly.



I just got a clue (with help from Stewart at Spitfire) and fixed the issue I was having - the Performance Legato patches in KS lock respond to C-1, but everything else responds to C-2. Don't know why, don't really care, problem solved. So I actually _can_ make global adjustments on all of a section's articulations at once even spread over many patches. Don't need it as a new feature because it does work - just not automatically. 

So I learned something new. It's like that thing we call shopping in the closet, where you find gear you forgot you have that's actually awesome and so you don't have to spend money again.


----------



## Alex Fraser

justthere said:


> Cool. And you have to use a combo of channel changes and UUAC, because Performance Legato patches don’t respond to UACC, right?
> 
> Wish they would fix this instead of my having to use OrangeTree’s MindControl to only enable the perf legato when it sees the UACC command that the legato patch’s creators invented.


Not specifically for the performance patches, but yes. But I see you've solved it, so hurrah!


----------



## Chungus

A new organ? Colour me interested. Although I wonder what's going to set SOrg apart from UCO.


----------



## VinRice

mistermister said:


> There's a reason Apple are the biggest tech company in the world with a customer base that will happily pay $10,000 for something normally $3,000, and it's not because their _new thing is good_ (not saying it isn't, just that other companies without the hype and following of Apple are equally good - sometimes better, but don't have anywhere near the level of success



Nope, that's not it at all. Cart before horse mate....


----------



## VinRice

Chungus said:


> A new organ? Colour me interested. Although I wonder what's going to set SOrg apart from UCO.



Yeah, I've got Union Chapel and I can't imagine wanting anything 'bigger'. It tends to dominate proceedings. I wonder if that's exactly what they are trying to address. I.e. make in more 'Evoed' or Swarmified' so that it can fit into productions more easily.


----------



## Alex Fraser

A new organ?

So, churches have organs.
Churches also have congregations.
Congregations make regular donations to the church.
A regular donation is a kind of ongoing payment.
Another term for "ongoing payment" is...

*...a subscription.* I cracked the code, folks. Thank me later.


----------



## CT

Chungus said:


> A new organ? Colour me interested. Although I wonder what's going to set SOrg apart from UCO.



In pipe organ lingo, "symphonic" refers to a particular instrument design that lends itself to the playing of, well, symphonic music, as opposed to smaller instruments like UCO or those geared towards baroque music, etc.

My guess is that this is more of the typical large English cathedral organ in contrast to UCO's smaller scale, and/or something more EVO/Swarm based as Vin suggested.


----------



## VinRice

We don't need your steeenking subscriptions...


----------



## VinRice

Could be the Albert Hall organ or the Air Studios one (does that even work anymore?) though the teaser does suggest a cathedral monster.


----------



## Zero&One

Sounds like an EVO


----------



## CT

VinRice said:


> Could be the Albert Hall organ or the Air Studios one (does that even work anymore?) though the teaser does suggest a cathedral monster.



The one in the hall at AIR doesn't work anymore. Unfortunately, the Albert Hall's instrument also seems to be in a constant state of disrepair.


----------



## justthere

How lousy would it be if the biggest thing they have ever done is actually just the largest instrument they've ever recorded... though that isn't it.


----------



## Hanu_H

I think everybody should remember that even the Spitfire Studio Strings was advertised as revolutionary new chapter in Spitfire's career. "An incredibly versatile, pro-end dry stage library - giving you total control". And all that after years and years of saying that you can't make a good library from dry recordings. I really think that this thread shows us that Spitfire has become the Apple of sample industry. Apple could probably make a phone that doesn't even work as a phone and the fanboys would call it revolutionary and pay 1500€ for it. I see the same thing with Spitfire, some people don't even know wtf they are buying but it is Spitfire, so I have to have it.


----------



## ism

Hanu_H said:


> I see the same thing with Spitfire, some people don't even know wtf they are buying but it is Spitfire,



In fact, there's lot of people on these pages who have put a great deal of energy into attempting to put in words what they do and don't like about the Studio libraries.



So you can argue that you think there are better libraries that this one or that one, or you can wish that people wrote with a higher level of critical discourse in defending the sound they like. But each time I ask for evidence of these allegedly mindlessly slathering spitfire fanboys among us ... no one seems to answer. 


In fact, spitfire libraries are subject to some of the most intense critical scrutiny on vi-control. Some of it represents a very high quality of technical and artistic engagement. Some of it ... less so. 


So I think that we can all agree that what would be great to see on vi-c is more substantive, critique of the strengths and weaknesses of all the various dimensions of all the various libraries (rather than, for instance, blanket dismissal).


----------



## chocobitz825

ism said:


> In fact, there's lot of people on these pages who have put a great deal of energy into attempting to put in words what they do and don't like about the Studio libraries.
> 
> 
> 
> So you can argue that you think there are better libraries that this one or that one, or you can wish that people wrote with a higher level of critical discourse in defending the sound they like. But each time I ask for evidence of these allegedly mindlessly slathering spitfire fanboys among us ... no one seems to answer.
> 
> 
> In fact, spitfire libraries are subject to some of the most intense critical scrutiny on vi-control. Some of it represents a very high quality of technical and artistic engagement. Some of it ... less so.
> 
> 
> So I think that we can all agree that what would be great to see on vi-c is more substantive, critique of the strengths and weaknesses of all the various dimensions of all the various libraries (rather than, for instance, blanket dismissal).



Tribalism is strong in this forum. Always some lot that want to condemn one brand while saying another can do no wrong. The worst part is this assumption that somehow VI’s will provide some miracle library that should satisfy all people and their various musical needs. It’s like telling a guitarist that all they need is a strat, and it should serve all their musical needs, period. It’s not realistic. Spitfire provides certain kinds of libraries that are great when worked toward their strengths. Where they are not great, other libraries can cover the gap. There is nothing inherently wrong with Spitfire, and what they do well is top quality.


----------



## NYC Composer

ism said:


> In fact, there's lot of people on these pages who have put a great deal of energy into attempting to put in words what they do and don't like about the Studio libraries.
> 
> 
> 
> So you can argue that you think there are better libraries that this one or that one, or you can wish that people wrote with a higher level of critical discourse in defending the sound they like. But each time I ask for evidence of these allegedly mindlessly slathering spitfire fanboys among us ... no one seems to answer.
> 
> 
> In fact, spitfire libraries are subject to some of the most intense critical scrutiny on vi-control. Some of it represents a very high quality of technical and artistic engagement. Some of it ... less so.
> 
> 
> So I think that we can all agree that what would be great to see on vi-c is more substantive, critique of the strengths and weaknesses of all the various dimensions of all the various libraries (rather than, for instance, blanket dismissal).


Or blanket pre-release validation.


----------



## jaketanner

AndyP said:


> Since I work in marketing I am always surprised how well it works to arouse interest by mysterious announcements alone.
> So I think they do it very well.


but if the announcement is anything short of awesome at this point, it will just piss people off, and they probably can't use this tactic again.


----------



## AndyP

jaketanner said:


> but if the announcement is anything short of awesome at this point, it will just piss people off, and they probably can't use this tactic again.


My mom used to say, "Better to attract attention unpleasantly than not at all."


----------



## jamwerks

justthere said:


> Out of curiosity - is anyone else interested in having performance legato patches respond to UACC messages such that one could load both core and decorative patches and the performance legato and sul G legato patches in the same Kontakt instance on the same channel and switch between them with articulation switches, and the perf legato patches would respond as the others do, i.e. do nothing until they get their UACC message?
> 
> (With the goal being single tracks for everything, and not having to use the less- functional legacy legato perf palette patches.)
> 
> Yes there’s a workaround, but I’m hoping that in whatever new product is released this is a possibility.
> 
> Or am I missing something?


You can do that with shared UACC. They have a video on that somewhere...


----------



## muk

ism said:


> So I think that we can all agree that what would be great to see on vi-c is more substantive, critique of the strengths and weaknesses of all the various dimensions of all the various libraries (rather than, for instance, blanket dismissal).



Spitfire is much to blame for that in my opinion. See, Spitfire doesn't market facts, nor strenghts of their products. Instead they habitually spread either no information at all about libraries (like in the present case), or absurd hyperboles like 'changing the world of sampling forever' or some such stuff. They clearly target the 'OMG LOLOLOLOL SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY'-brigade with their marketing, and not the serious audio professionals. For that, their communication would have to be a bit more down to earth and provide some actual information. As long as their marketing doesn't provide anything of substance, it's difficult to have a meaningful discussion about the libraries. Because if people write how intrigued they are by Spitfire marketing blurb, others are going to write blanket dismissals as a reaction. And, frankly, I think the latter are slightly more correct. Because if you take the Spitfire marketing blurb as the measure, no library can actually life up to the hyperbole used in it. In any case I think the hype-train that Spitfire marketing tries to create really does not help bringing up calm, objective discussions about the libraries. And many here seem to be wishing for just that.


----------



## Loïc D

justthere said:


> Out of curiosity - is anyone else interested in having performance legato patches respond to UACC messages such that one could load both core and decorative patches and the performance legato and sul G legato patches in the same Kontakt instance on the same channel and switch between them with articulation switches, and the perf legato patches would respond as the others do, i.e. do nothing until they get their UACC message?
> 
> (With the goal being single tracks for everything, and not having to use the less- functional legacy legato perf palette patches.)
> 
> Yes there’s a workaround, but I’m hoping that in whatever new product is released this is a possibility.
> 
> Or am I missing something?


I just wrote a ticket to SA support yesterday about this.
I got 3 patches in 1 instance of Kontakt, articulations switched in LPX using UACC KS mode and Perf Legato patch keeps playing in addition to the chosen articulation.


----------



## Alex Fraser

LowweeK said:


> I just wrote a ticket to SA support yesterday about this.
> I got 3 patches in 1 instance of Kontakt, articulations switched in LPX using UACC KS mode and Perf Legato patch keeps playing in addition to the chosen articulation.


Have you tried giving the performance legato it's own midi channel?



jaketanner said:


> but if the announcement is anything short of awesome at this point, it will just piss people off, and they probably can't use this tactic again.



Maybe, but some people just like moaning about Spitfire. 
There's a lot of negativity in this thread over a simple teaser for an unannounced product. And if the thread braintrust is correct, IMO this would actually qualify as Spitfire's "biggest announcement ever."


----------



## DerGeist

Daniel James said:


> Regardless of what this is, I have had this in my head for days now xD
> 
> 
> 
> -DJ



Its funny, I didn't know much about Maida Vale so I looked at the Wikipedia page. It indicates that The Clash did half a Peel session there but quit because the studio equipment wasn't up to their standards


----------



## VinRice

Hanu_H said:


> I really think that this thread shows us that Spitfire has become the Apple of sample industry. Apple could probably make a phone that doesn't even work as a phone and the fanboys would call it revolutionary and pay 1500€ for it. I see the same thing with Spitfire, some people don't even know wtf they are buying but it is Spitfire, so I have to have it.



No. I think what it shows is that the leaders in any industry will always attract a lazy and irrational bias against them from a minority who think contrarian cynicism is somehow 'cool'. It's usually simply shorthand for an inability or unwillingness to engage in critical or secondary thinking. 

As @ism states above, both Apple and Spitfire face a level of interest and scrutiny that other, less successful companies simply do not


----------



## VinRice

DerGeist said:


> Its funny, I didn't know much about Maida Vale so I looked at the Wikipedia page. It indicates that The Clash did half a Peel session there but quit because the studio equipment wasn't up to their standards



Ha! This doesn't surprise me. The BBC always had 'their way' of doing things, honed for efficiency and safety over decades. I sat in on a session for JP in that very studio around the same time (observing at the back as an awe-struck student thanks to producer Trevor Dann who had gone to my school). I thought the studio was great but it was very woody and brown with a relatively small Calrec (or maybe Neve) desk. Cutting edge it was not. Produced some amazing sessions though. Somebody like Jack White would probably kill for that studio now.


----------



## Mystic

chocobitz825 said:


> Tribalism is strong in this forum. Always some lot that want to condemn one brand while saying another can do no wrong. The worst part is this assumption that somehow VI’s will provide some miracle library that should satisfy all people and their various musical needs. It’s like telling a guitarist that all they need is a strat, and it should serve all their musical needs, period. It’s not realistic. Spitfire provides certain kinds of libraries that are great when worked toward their strengths. Where they are not great, other libraries can cover the gap. There is nothing inherently wrong with Spitfire, and what they do well is top quality.


And many of those people I've noticed are more plugin collectors with GAS than actual composers or people who utilize this stuff on a professional or even intermediate level. Of course, most companies love these people because they are the loudest form of community based marketing.

That's not to say that Spitfire doesn't make some good libraries but they aren't without their failures, either. Some people however seem to promote that everything they make is gold and that is very far from the truth.


----------



## gh0stwrit3r

A subscription model would be horrible, not the biggest announcement I hope for.

I go for a Spitfire University / Educational Program in .... i don’t know, but everything would be great


----------



## idematoa




----------



## Mornats

I heard the Wells Cathedral organ recently and that thing had some awesome bass on it. Hope this one has too.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

muk said:


> Spitfire is much to blame for that in my opinion. See, Spitfire doesn't market facts, nor strenghts of their products. Instead they habitually spread either no information at all about libraries (like in the present case), or absurd hyperboles like 'changing the world of sampling forever' or some such stuff. They clearly target the 'OMG LOLOLOLOL SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY'-brigade with their marketing, and not the serious audio professionals. For that, their communication would have to be a bit more down to earth and provide some actual information.



Spitfire's walkthroughs are uniformly excellent and give a huge amount of information about their products, and you can watch them before you buy the product. The rest of their marketing is just... marketing, and I don't think it is more egregious than anyone else's. I'm mostly an East-West person as that's what I learned first, but I think this is a bit hyperbolic.


----------



## ism

chocobitz825 said:


> Always some lot that want to condemn one brand while saying another can do no wrong



Well there are certainly people with sharp criticism of certain companies, but who on this forum has ever even suggested that any company can do no wrong?




chocobitz825 said:


> Spitfire provides certain kinds of libraries that are great when worked toward their strengths



True. And Neither have I ever heard anyone on this forum even suggest that it might not be true.





chocobitz825 said:


> It’s like telling a guitarist that all they need is a strat



This is perfectly true.



But again, I see lots of evidence that some people have hostility to one company or another, and lots of evidence that lots of people like spitfire libraries, or east west or Val libraries and are willing to defend their experience of liking libraries when pressed.


I just don’t see any evidence of anyone mindlessly liking any company, for all the constant accusations of a cabal of mindless and uncritical slavering fanboy base among us. Seriously who are these mindlessly slavering fanboys? For all that they appear to upset people, I can’t think of a single point *in favour* of a library that struck me as mindless fanboyism.

If there is a touch of tribalism here, I see it as being expressed negatively - in overly sweeping dismals of libraries or of people who like those libraries.


----------



## ism

Mystic said:


> And many of those people I've noticed are more plugin collectors with GAS than actual composers or people who utilize this stuff on a professional or even intermediate level. Of course, most companies love these people because they are the loudest form of community based marketing.
> 
> That's not to say that Spitfire doesn't make some good libraries but they aren't without their failures, either. Some people however seem to promote that everything they make is gold and that is very far from the truth.



Well at least this is a theory of who these fanboys are - inexperienced composed, who presumably aren’t talented or skilled enough to know the libraries are bad. 

Not a very convincing theory, but at least it’s a theory.


----------



## Loïc D

LowweeK said:


> I just wrote a ticket to SA support yesterday about this.
> I got 3 patches in 1 instance of Kontakt, articulations switched in LPX using UACC KS mode and Perf Legato patch keeps playing in addition to the chosen articulation.


Self-reply. I’ve received an answer from SA support pointing at the transposition of keyswitching, as mentioned in posts above. Will try this.

Back to topic.
After watching the video SA provided me with, the next suggested video was “What happened to Benny Hill ?”.
And then, voilà !
London + BBC + Never done before + Big = The Benny Hill Toolkit !
All that you need for chase scenes and funny frivolous music.
Who wants to bet?


----------



## D Halgren

LowweeK said:


> Self-reply. I’ve received an answer from SA support pointing at the transposition of keyswitching, as mentioned in posts above. Will try this.
> 
> Back to topic.
> After watching the video SA provided me with, the next suggested video was “What happened to Benny Hill ?”.
> And then, voilà !
> London + BBC + Never done before + Big = The Benny Hill Toolkit !
> All that you need for chase scenes and funny frivolous music.
> Who wants to bet?


Boots Randolph Composer Toolkit confirmed


----------



## Paul Cardon

We're 27 pages deep on a banner image and a teaser video. Are we all doing okay? Getting outside? Keeping hydrated?


----------



## jaketanner

Alex Fraser said:


> Have you tried giving the performance legato it's own midi channel?
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, but some people just like moaning about Spitfire.
> There's a lot of negativity in this thread over a simple teaser for an unannounced product. And if the thread braintrust is correct, IMO this would actually qualify as Spitfire's "biggest announcement ever."


I think the moaning is more about this month long tease...SF must have known this would not be well received by everyone, so why risk having angry customers? I can see a week long at best...but what they did (for some people), seems like they're taunting them into these conversations...some negative, some indifferent and others can't wait and are excited. Not everyone's personality lends itself to this type of a marketing strategy, and I think this is one of the issues...NOW, if SF had a track record for announcing big things and actually following through, that's a different story to be excited...but the last few releases for me personally, have been a bit blah.

So in perspective, SF says their biggest announcement to date is coming on the 28th, complete with a keynote address and a live show, then couple of weeks later they throw a 25% discount for everyone and their friends...then a day or two later announce yet another library teaser..I mean, this can have people nuts...and this is all fine and dandy IF, they truly follow through with something that will leave all of our jaws open...which is what I am hoping for.  But honestly, by giving the 25% discount before their announcement says to me, that they're not going to release anything new...I mean what business basically asks people to spend money BEFORE they release a new product? Unless SF thinks we are all loaded and will buy anything at any given moment.. LOL 

Anyway...I'm waiting patiently. No sense in me speculating any more about what this is either, since it can be anything at this point...


----------



## Alex Fraser

Paul Cardon said:


> We're 27 pages deep on a banner image and a teaser video. Are we all doing okay? Getting outside? Keeping hydrated?


Well, my wife has threatened me with a ban from the forum ever since she found me in a corner, huddled and whispering “London is calling?” repeatedly to myself. 

I’m doing fine, thanks.


----------



## prodigalson

jaketanner said:


> I think the moaning is more about this month long tease...SF must have known this would not be well received by everyone, so why risk having angry customers?



Ah but they needed a month to sell tickets to the Barbican! That venue can't be cheap


----------



## EgM

gh0stwrit3r said:


> A subscription model would be horrible, not the biggest announcement I hope for.



Certainly horrible for everyone who has invested thousands. Great for those who thought they were too expensive compared to the competition.


----------



## Denkii

EgM said:


> Certainly horrible for everyone who has invested thousands. Great for those who thought they were too expensive compared to the competition.


I've seen this argument a couple of times now and honestly it does not make sense for the side some people are trying to defend. This logic implies that a subscription is objectively the better method (I understand that some people will disagree and say it isn't) thus they'd be bummed if it happened. But at that point it would mean that one shall prefer that worse method - purchase only - over subscription even in the future to come. I don't get it.
Why couldn't we have both and everyone can choose for themselves whether they want to buy or subscribe?


----------



## Grilled Cheese

jaketanner said:


> So in perspective, SF says their biggest announcement to date is coming on the 28th, complete with a keynote address and a live show, then couple of weeks later they throw a 25% discount for everyone and their friends...then a day or two later announce yet another library teaser...


Spitfire must be feeling a bit “damned if we do, damned if we don’t”. I mean, they are releasing new products and handing out discounts and copping criticism for it.


----------



## CT

chrispire said:


> Spitfire must be feeling a bit “damned if we do, damned if we don’t”. I mean, they are releasing new products and handing out discounts and copping criticism for it.



I doubt it has any real negative impact on business, so they probably tune it out at this point. It's just the inevitable reaction some people have to pretty much anything they do.


----------



## justthere

I hate how simple the fix is. The Perf Legato patches use C-1 for the basis of the KS switching, but EVERYTHING ELSE uses C-2. So if you go into KS lock mode, then drag the KS in the Perf Legato patch to C-2. it all works. What was frustrating was that initially they said the Perf Legato patch didn't respond to UACC - but it was a misunderstanding - they thought I wanted to get to the individual articulations inside it. I just wanted it to do its automatic thing. Anyway that fixed it.

EDIT: I too watched the Benny Hill video. Curious man.



LowweeK said:


> I just wrote a ticket to SA support yesterday about this.
> I got 3 patches in 1 instance of Kontakt, articulations switched in LPX using UACC KS mode and Perf Legato patch keeps playing in addition to the chosen articulation.


----------



## EgM

Denkii said:


> I've seen this argument a couple of times now and honestly it does not make sense for the side some people are trying to defend. This logic implies that a subscription is objectively the better method (I understand that some people will disagree and say it isn't) thus they'd be bummed if it happened. But at that point it would mean that one shall prefer that worse method - purchase only - over subscription even in the future to come. I don't get it.
> Why couldn't we have both and everyone can choose for themselves whether they want to buy or subscribe?



I actually feel the same way as you do. I prefer companies having buy and subscribe options! 

But when EastWest came up with the subscription model it really bummed some people out. I'm not part of that camp since I used the sub to find out what I really wanted to buy and made informed decisions.


----------



## D Halgren

justthere said:


> I hate how simple the fix is. The Perf Legato patches use C-1 for the basis of the KS switching, but EVERYTHING ELSE uses C-2. So if you go into KS lock mode, then drag the KS in the Perf Legato patch to C-2. it all works. What was frustrating was that initially they said the Perf Legato patch didn't respond to UACC - but it was a misunderstanding - they thought I wanted to get to the individual articulations inside it. I just wanted it to do its automatic thing. Anyway that fixed it.
> 
> EDIT: I too watched the Benny Hill video. Curious man.


Wait, so the Benny Hill thing is real?


----------



## Mystic

EgM said:


> Certainly horrible for everyone who has invested thousands. Great for those who thought they were too expensive compared to the competition.


Kinda how I felt with EastWest...


----------



## EgM

Mystic said:


> Kinda how I felt with EastWest...



Haha, yeah.. I only buy stuff when it's stupid not to buy but I understand.


----------



## idematoa




----------



## AdamKmusic

I think this actually might be a community based sample library. The LABS section of the website has the banner for this accouncement on it & below it says “let’s become something” (although that might’ve always been there)


----------



## Zedcars

And in other news; I see they’re doing another Matrix movie. I wonder if any Spitfire libraries will find their way onto the soundtrack? IIRC, Don Davis did the original score for the first 3. I think they used a real orchestra for that. Brilliant score BTW.


----------



## Alex Fraser

AdamKmusic said:


> I think this actually might be a community based sample library. The LABS section of the website has the banner for this accouncement on it & below it says “let’s become something” (although that might’ve always been there)


L.A.B.S = "Let's All Become Something.."

It's a nice idea though and something I considered too. Kind of like a free Kontakt with Spitfire taking a cut from an integrated store, similar to iTunes. To roll that kind of tech though...


----------



## Denkii

Alex Fraser said:


> L.A.B.S = "Let's All Become Something.."
> 
> It's a nice idea though and something I considered too. Kind of like a free Kontakt with Spitfire taking a cut from an integrated store, similar to iTunes. To roll that kind of tech though...


Didn't we drop this idea on like page 3 since it became clear we're talking about a subscription
(Yes...still funny enough)?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Denkii said:


> Didn't we drop this idea on like page 3 since it became clear we're talking about a subscription
> (Yes...still funny enough)?


From now until the end of days, every time Spitfire start a new product teaser thread, everyone is going to hound it with claims of an incoming subscription. They'll never shake it. 

Aside - anyone else feel that they'll be disappointed once the actual surprise is revealed? No more reasons to fool around in the thread..


----------



## Zedcars

If only my music was so amazingly awesome I could have people begging for a subscription to listen to it. Alas...this is only in my dreams...


----------



## ptram

dgburns said:


> 21 pages of a thread to talk about a 45 sec Youtube video


Composers — those odd people capable of developing a one-hour symphony out of a four-note motive.

Paolo


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> From now until the end of days, every time Spitfire start a new product teaser thread, everyone is going to hound it with claims of an incoming subscription. They'll never shake it.
> 
> Aside - anyone else feel that they'll be disappointed once the actual surprise is revealed? No more reasons to fool around in the thread..


I find the imagination is far more appealing than reality. I guess that’s why we spend much of our time watching dramas and films and reading fiction. One of the reasons Apple keynotes are rarely fun any more (although the last one was better than most). Not sure they can compete with everyone’s cool ideas tbh.

EDIt: Also, Steve Jobs’ Reality Distortion Field™ died when he died, and is hard to replicate. But he used to make the most trivial thing ever exciting. Is there such a thing as a Paul Thomson Reality Distortion Field™ or a Christian Henson Reality Distortion Field™?


----------



## Vischebaste

I'm pretty sure this will be the long-awaited Trailer Giant user manual.


----------



## Denkii

Zedcars said:


> If only my music was so amazingly awesome I could have people begging for a subscription to listen to it. Alas...this is only in my dreams...


Step 1: Put it on Spotify.
Step 2: Done.
Step 3: No profit.


----------



## Philip Vasta

VinRice said:


> No. I think what it shows is that the leaders in any industry will always attract a lazy and irrational bias against them from a minority who think contrarian cynicism is somehow 'cool'. It's usually simply shorthand for an inability or unwillingness to engage in critical or secondary thinking.
> 
> As @ism states above, both Apple and Spitfire face a level of interest and scrutiny that other, less successful companies simply do not



Ehhhh, I sort of agree, but this doesn't negate the fact that Apple has a large group of followers who share an elitist notion that anything they do is just better. I don't mind it that someone appreciates good products - and Apple generally makes excellent products - but I do mind snobbish idea that Apple and their hardcore community seem to foster.


----------



## ptram

EgM said:


> Certainly horrible for everyone who has invested thousands. Great for those who thought they were too expensive compared to the competition.


Also horrible for anyone expecting to survive still some years, and with a spreadsheet showing the long-term costs of a rented product.

Paolo


----------



## jaketanner

chrispire said:


> Spitfire must be feeling a bit “damned if we do, damned if we don’t”. I mean, they are releasing new products and handing out discounts and copping criticism for it.


Just blows my mind why they'd give out discount to get people to spend their money before a release...seems counterproductive UNLESS, it's not a new library on the 28th, and maybe just free upgrades to those who purchased already.


----------



## CT

Zedcars said:


> Is there such a thing as a Paul Thomson Reality Distortion Field™ or a Christian Henson Reality Distortion Field™?



The Paul Thomson Very Excited Field will eventually be recognized as the fifth fundamental force.


----------



## Batrawi

I wouldn't be surprised if Spitfire were literally on fire screaming out "LONDON IS CALLING" but thought: hey...let's make a teaser out of it anyways🙄


----------



## Lee Blaske

I'm anxious to hear what we'll find out on the 28th. I'm sure it will be pretty big, and I'm optimistic that it'll be good news. I've only read about half of the 29 pages of this thread so far, but my list of guesses would be...

1. Partnership with a large hardware company (Yamaha, Korg, Roland, etc.) to produce a hardware based instrument like the partnership between 8Dio and Dave Smith.

2. A new line of Eurorack modules, perhaps including some Spitfire content.

3. Some new, radically advanced physical modeling product.

4. SA purchased Air Lyndhurst.

5. SA purchased (or will be partnering with) another big company. Orchestral Tools? VSL? Both OT and VSL have kind of gone a bit silent compared to earlier times for these companies. Maybe SA would like to have the Vienna Ensemble Pro software. Then again, with the way computers are evolving, running multiple computers is getting to be less necessary with every passing day. OT had their major announcement early in the year, but I don't think we've heard much about it since then (I'm surprised OT's video on their major announcement only got a bit over 3,000 views. That doesn't indicate huge interest.) Then again, SA combining with OT or VSL would be a lot of product overlap.

6. Public stock offering

7. The concept of sample libraries being released along with album releases is pretty interesting, but if that were the big announcement, I don't think they would have been talking about it already.

8. SA purchased Greenland. 

9. All new SA sample libraries will be produced at 96khz.

10. Apple is buying SA (they bought Camel Audio in the past).

11. Spitfire Audio's proprietary sample playback engine will be made open to third party developers (I've got a hunch this might be it). Also, Spitfire Audio might take care of the business end of downloading/selling/licensing third party sampling products through their application.

12. Paul is buying Christian out. Or, Christian is buying Paul out. Or, some third party investor is buying both of them out.


Three things that would be my worst nightmare would be if Spitfire Audio has been purchased by Avid, Gibson or Tascam. OTOH, I wouldn't mind if they were purchased by Yamaha. Yamaha's relationship with the former Sibelius team now producing Dorico has been pretty fantastic. I'm guessing Yamaha has concluded it likes working with Brits.


----------



## pawelmorytko

My guess is either a massive all-in-one symphonic library, extensive articulations, with Air hall sound. It would knock Nucleus out of the park, which actually seems like a very incredible library for beginners/on-the-goers. Spitfire could make something similar but more high-end.

The other guess is like mentioned before, some sort of educational programme/school/master classes. Got an e-mail about another event at SA about a string programming masterclass, could this be the start of something bigger?


----------



## JF

pawelmorytko said:


> Got an e-mail about another event at SA about a string programming masterclass, could this be the start of something bigger?


Care to post what the e-mail said?


----------



## Lee Blaske

Has anyone tried listening to the audio of the youtube announcement video backwards?


----------



## Fleer

Yeah, I heard it too: “sub-scrip-tion”.


----------



## JF

Lee Blaske said:


> Has anyone tried listening to the audio of the youtube announcement video backwards?


I think you're on to something...


----------



## Zedcars

JF said:


> I think you're on to something...



Sounds like he’s saying “Get stuffed!”


----------



## Fleer

Nah. “Get subbed”.


----------



## redlester

JF said:


> Care to post what the e-mail said?



“Spitfire 101: Programming with strings. 

Composer insight
Meet the community
Merchandise

4th September 5pm

Spitfire HQ”

And a link to order tickets.


----------



## muk

Apparently some people have missed the actually relevant posts amidst all the jokes about a subscription. So let me repost what currently is known: 

'This is London calling' and the microphone in the background picture both point towards the BBC. 

Evidence has been found that Spitfire recorded with the BBC Symphony Orchestra at Maida Vale Studios last year. 

It's very likely that the announcement has something to do with that.


----------



## JF

Zedcars said:


> Sounds like he’s saying “Get stuffed!”


"N is coming"

Failed joke I'm afraid.


----------



## Lee Blaske

JF said:


> I think you're on to something...




Sounds like "Ben is calling" or "Venice calling" to me. Maybe a new Big Ben library, or a mandolin library.


----------



## RobertPeetersPiano

Too bad SF doesn't give discounts for the true guess and the silliest guess


----------



## ptram

I must be a troubling case, but I hear something like "Hell is down". And they just released a church organ library...

Paolo


----------



## Fleer

Paul is dead?


----------



## Zedcars

JF said:


> "N is coming"
> 
> Failed joke I'm afraid.


That’s what I heard initially and it made me laugh which is why I posted. In Australia and the UK “get stuffed” is light-hearted slang for “get lost” or “go away”, or a milder form of “f off”. Sorry you didn’t find it funny, but it’s probably colloquial and more of an older expression. Not sure why you felt the need to write that really, but the internet I guess.


----------



## Geoff Grace

_"We have really everything in common with America nowadays, except, of course, language."_
- Oscar Wilde (from _The Canterville Ghost_, 1887)

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Ran Zhou

Maybe new version of Albion serious with debut of new Albion TWO towards different road.
Albion One + Three + IV for epic stuff
new Albion TWO Loegria + new ?? for "talking/whispering orchestra".


----------



## Fleer

Geoff Grace said:


> _"We have really everything in common with America nowadays, except, of course, language."_
> - Oscar Wilde (from _The Canterville Ghost_, 1887)
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


A very timely reference indeed.


----------



## colony nofi

Not to mention Mr Henson had a hard drive sized box in his video for last week for an upcoming release they were very excited about....(if link doesn't work properly, go to 20:35 or there abouts)


----------



## Alex Fraser

Fleer said:


> Yeah, I heard it too: “sub-scrip-tion”.


I was going to whip up an audio version of this for giggles. But even I have a limit!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Lee Blaske said:


> 10. Apple is buying SA (they bought Camel Audio in the past).


..and then make SF libraries Mac only. I would fill the cupboard with popcorn for that one. Oh my, the rage..


----------



## Mornats

Alex Fraser said:


> ..and then make SF libraries Mac only. I would fill the cupboard with popcorn for that one. Oh my, the rage..



I feared that when I read the suggestion. There would not be a single benefit to going Mac only. I was going to buy Alchemy just before Apple killed the PC version and I'm still miffed about it!


----------



## angeruroth

Lee Blaske said:


> 11. Spitfire Audio's proprietary sample playback engine will be made open to third party developers (I've got a hunch this might be it).
> Also, Spitfire Audio might take care of the business end of downloading/selling/licensing third party sampling products through their application.


What a veeeery interesting idea  And if the UI and/or the engine are customizable it would be really cool to experiment and try new things.


----------



## ridgero

Hanu_H said:


> I see the same thing with Spitfire, some people don't even know wtf they are buying but it is Spitfire, so I have to have it.



It happens when you have reached a certain level of reputation like Spitfire Audio.


----------



## Fleer

Mornats said:


> I feared that when I read the suggestion. There would not be a single benefit to going Mac only. I was going to buy Alchemy just before Apple killed the PC version and I'm still miffed about it!


I bought Alchemy for my Mac just before it became free within Logic Pro. Somewhat miffed here too


----------



## redlester




----------



## VinRice

BBCSO Strings - pretty obvious by now init?


----------



## Sub3OneDay

Mmmm, there’s a clue in there...

“Sul Tasto.... insane”... at about 17secs...


----------



## Alex Fraser

VinRice said:


> BBCSO Strings - pretty obvious by now init?


"Whilst this release may not be for everyone.." - CH latest vlog.
So, either a Hurdy Gurdy sample library or arse twitchingly expensive?
Either way, sounds fun.


----------



## ism

I do get excited by the prospect of a new Sul Tasto now.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Also, looks pretty much like a Spitfire Player (non Kontakt) library if you pause the first couple of frames. But I'm not going to post a screen grab as I feel embarrassed I even tried it.


----------



## Michel Simons

Alex Fraser said:


> Also, looks pretty much like a Spitfire Player (non Kontakt) library if you pause the first couple of frames. But I'm not going to post a screen grab as I feel embarrassed I even tried it.



Next week is also the release of the first new Tool album in 16 years. So it might be a TOOLkit. (coat grabbing and door slamming noises)


----------



## Digivolt

redlester said:


>




That language at 4 seconds  I wonder what caused him to curse ?


----------



## Leonard Gaspar

Christian is obviously hyped but I'm a bit worried by his statement of this thing may not being everyone's cup of tea ... please don't be a special interests library ...


----------



## 667

Mornats said:


> I feared that when I read the suggestion. There would not be a single benefit to going Mac only. I was going to buy Alchemy just before Apple killed the PC version and I'm still miffed about it!


You should have! It still runs-- they did release final versions you could run without needing Camel Audio for copy protection or whatever, and I was fortunate to have bought nearly all the Alchemy sound packs I wanted. They were not very expensive, either.

I am still sad about it though. Alchemy was a very cool synth/sampler and there were some sound packs I didn't get in time. It was certainly better to use than Kontakt. I don't have it installed right now after rebuilding my DAW recently but I really should. It's still great.

Will be a very sad day when it no longer runs though. :-(


----------



## Digivolt

Leonard Gaspar said:


> Christian is obviously hyped but I'm a bit worried by his statement of this thing may not being everyone's cup of tea ... please don't be a special interests library ...



It doesn't sound like a sample library the way he opens he's talking about revolutionising the way samples are created ? Artificial intelligence based sampling ?


----------



## Raphioli

Leonard Gaspar said:


> Christian is obviously hyped but I'm a bit worried by his statement of this thing may not being everyone's cup of tea ... please don't be a special interests library ...



Maybe its a library which only a limited amount of people could obtain?
Maybe very expensive (so not everyone can afford it) or something like a bespoke thing (wild guess) rather than a special interests library.


----------



## Daniel James

Did London call yet or are we still on hold?

-DJ


----------



## zolhof

That's the piece of paper that was in front of the "checklist guy", after some good old cropping:


----------



## PaulieDC

Digivolt said:


> That language at 4 seconds  I wonder what caused him to curse ?


Tell you what, they are making SUCH a huge deal about this announcement that they'd better bring Beethoven back from the grave to write sequences and loops for us... anything else will be anticlimactic, lol.


----------



## Michel Simons

667 said:


> You should have! It still runs-- they did release final versions you could run without needing Camel Audio for copy protection or whatever, and I was fortunate to have bought nearly all the Alchemy sound packs I wanted. They were not very expensive, either.
> 
> I am still sad about it though. Alchemy was a very cool synth/sampler and there were some sound packs I didn't get in time. It was certainly better to use than Kontakt. I don't have it installed right now after rebuilding my DAW recently but I really should. It's still great.
> 
> Will be a very sad day when it no longer runs though. :-(



I have it installed and used it in a project which I opened yesterday. Still works fine (Windows 10 & Cubase 8.5).

re: Christian's video. Was Oliver talking about doing videos for four different bundles and was that about the big announcement?


----------



## Zedcars

VinRice said:


> BBCSO Strings - pretty obvious by now init?


I feel like we may have only half the information. I think there is more to this than a standard library, even if it’s a big Motherf****** one!


----------



## Zero&One

zolhof said:


> That's the piece of paper that was in front of the "checklist guy", after some good old cropping:



It’s a map to where the level 50 armour and sword are found! 
I can finally beat Dark Souls!


----------



## angeruroth

So... I was thinking about this somewhat strange marketing... One month for this one... And suddenly they release the organ...
I get a new SO is a bigger thing, and that could explain it, but can't shake the feeling that they are just experimenting, like a car maker saying a new car would be released in 2 years, testing the fields... So... I'm even more curious about that than about a breathtaking new lib...
But I'm just guessing like everyone else


----------



## CT

I just don't look forward to whatever new dimension this will add to my lusting for VI's I can't afford.


----------



## synthetic

You drag and drop your DAW project into this app. There are faders for John Williams, Hans Zimmer, Igor Stravinsky, etc. And then a strength slider. So you say “make this sound 35% more like a collaboration between John Powell, Bela Bartok, and Tool.” Then you hit Go and it changes the orchestration, voicings, and mix in your project. 

I’m on the beta, it works great.


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

Pirate radio to mainstream - I reckon it's either some sort of social networky thing - podcasts, a more focused web presence to host their 'journal' content, or a magazine. But obviously with a library launch at the same time to kick things off.


----------



## Loïc D

First the audio “Benny is coming, Benny is coming”.
Then Christian says “This salto is insane” (I think you misheard, sorry)

It’s definitely the Benny Hill Comedy Toolkit (BHCT).
Can’t wait.


----------



## jamwerks

Was hoping for Woodwinds!


----------



## Zedcars

There are pieces of this puzzle that point somewhere.

Christian originally tweeted this:

“This is going to be an historic shift for the craft of sampleism.”

However, the tweet is no longer there. Weird. I copied it in text form, but didn’t take a screenshot. In its place is:

“This is a massive chapter marker in the history of sampling.”



Not much difference. The only reason I can think might be for the change is that Sampleism is actually a company who sell samples, so maybe just avoiding any chance of confusion or issues with that company.

Anyway, all of that is a tangent from my main point. There are hints that this announcement is not a normal sample library release. The tweets and things he’s said in his videos suggest something slightly left field.

“A massive chapter marker in the history of sampling”

A sample library that “may not be for everyone”?

“Pirate radio to mainstream”?

“Something that will knock your bloody socks off”?

Evidence of BBC Symphonic Orchestra string library recorded at the iconic Maida Vale Studios.

Unfortunately I’m not Hercule Poirot, so I’m not getting the bigger picture here. But something is different about this one, that’s all I can conclude at this point.


----------



## VinRice

I believe it may point to a formal agreement with the Beeb going forward. The reference to 'Pirates' is a callback to the time when pirate radio stations eventually became part of the BBC - all the DJs from Radio Caroline moving to BBC Radio One etc. It would be a very Spitfire thing to do.


----------



## J-M

James H said:


> It’s a map to where the level 50 armour and sword are found!
> I can finally beat Dark Souls!



Git Gud mate!


----------



## Alex Fraser

VinRice said:


> I believe it may point to a formal agreement with the Beeb going forward. The reference to 'Pirates' is a callback to the time when pirate radio stations eventually became part of the BBC - all the DJs from Radio Caroline moving to BBC Radio One etc. It would be a very Spitfire thing to do.


Yep, I agree. Here's my prediction:

*What It Is:*
I think it's Spitfire's new flagship _orchestral collection,_ featuring the BBCSO recorded at Maida Vale. We've covered that idea in detail already but I think there's more to be guessed.

It's almost certainly a SF player affair, as grabbed and tweaked from the teaser:






Why the full orchestra? It's hyped as the "biggest announcement to date" and we've already had "strings only" via HZ strings. I think maybe it's time for a pricey new "halo product" - the next generation of orchestra. This would tie in with CH's comments that it's "not for everyone"...it's a wallet destroyer and would serve as a new chapter for Spitfire, much like the BML. We'll see strings next week, the rest to follow.

Releasing a new halo collection would also allow Spitfire to *reduce the price of the existing Air Symphony Orchestra *into a mid tier product, opening it up to a new market, perhaps jettisoning Masse along the way. This would be pretty big news.

Like @VinRice I'm also betting that the development of this collection has been some sort of *joint effort between the BBC, BBCSO, Spitfire *and perhaps some other "names" in the classical music world. Produced by Spitfire, engineered by the BBC and even conducted/directed by a well known veteran. There may be a "preservation" angle to this considering the impending closure and demolition of Maida Vale - a joint funded venture between BBC Arts and Spitfire with a goal to "keep the history and sound of Maida Vale alive in future recordings."

*What about more future products?* Maida Vale has a rich recording history and several sound stages. Spitfire might be announcing and entire "Maida Vale" line in association with the BBC, where the orchestra is just the start. Imagine drums and guitars sampled with John Peel's classic studio setup.

I reckon this all squares with the teasers, Twitter and vlogs. Of course, I could be completely off the mark. It wouldn't be the first time.

Thoughts?


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Alex Fraser said:


> Yep, I agree. Here's my prediction:
> 
> *What It Is:*
> I think it's Spitfire's new flagship _orchestral collection,_ featuring the BBCSO recorded at Maida Vale. We've covered that idea in detail already but I think there's more to be guessed.
> 
> It's almost certainly a SF player affair, as grabbed and tweaked from the teaser:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why the full orchestra? It's hyped as the "biggest announcement to date" and we've already had "strings only" via HZ strings. I think maybe it's time for a pricey new "halo product" - the next generation of orchestra. This would tie in with CH's comments that it's "not for everyone"...it's a wallet destroyer and would serve as a new chapter for Spitfire, much like the BML. We'll see strings next week, the rest to follow.
> 
> Releasing a new halo collection would also allow Spitfire to *reduce the price of the existing Air Symphony Orchestra *into a mid tier product, opening it up to a new market, perhaps jettisoning Masse along the way. This would be pretty big news.
> 
> Like @VinRice I'm also betting that the development of this collection has been some sort of *joint effort between the BBC, BBCSO, Spitfire *and perhaps some other "names" in the classical music world. Produced by Spitfire, engineered by the BBC and even conducted/directed by a well known veteran. There may be a "preservation" angle to this considering the impending closure and demolition of Maida Vale - a joint funded venture between BBC Arts and Spitfire with a goal to "keep the history and sound of Maida Vale alive in future recordings."
> 
> *What about more future products?* Maida Vale has a rich recording history and several sound stages. Spitfire might be announcing and entire "Maida Vale" line in association with the BBC, where the orchestra is just the start. Imagine drums and guitars sampled with John Peel's classic studio setup.
> 
> I reckon this all squares with the teasers, Twitter and vlogs. Of course, I could be completely off the mark. It wouldn't be the first time.
> 
> Thoughts?



I totally agree with you @Alex Fraser and @VinRice, as I've been thinking along the same lines, especially since CH’s pirate radio hint. For sure this is the buccaneer Spitfire crew coming aboard the Beeb mothership, although the extent of the collaboration remains to be seen; Auntie Beeb is not historically prone to giving away the shop to all comers. Also, remember CH got himself an “in” with the BBC via his Radio 3 appearance a few weeks back, and his thespian family has a long history with the Beeb luvvies. Something in my seaweed also tells me that beyond a bold new orchestral library (“those sul tastos”) there will be some historical aspect to this. We shall see...


----------



## PaulieDC

Ah, OK. Several pages back I was speculating it would be the full LSO right down to the dude who turns out the lights in the hall. Being a clueless American, I didn't realize there was also a BBCSO (I know, I know...). So that's a possibility.

Hmmmm, my money is still on LSO AND, before the world loses him, John Williams conducting it all, every last articulation with the worlds best legato samples. You want to recreate Star Wars? Ba da BING, it can't get any closer to that, sitting on an SSD.

*SPITFIRE AUDIO PRESENTS, in a galaxy right here, next Wednesday...

STAR WARS*​
Well, OK, actually the conductor, the orchestra, the hall and mercy sakes alive you'd better order a 4TB SSD because the massive London onslaught unleashes in 5 days...


----------



## PaulieDC

Just for the record, I'd buy that so fast it would be downloading before the PayPal confirmation page refreshes...


----------



## styledelk

I wasn't really intending to jump in on this one, but Christian did camera over a planning board...


----------



## Michael Antrum

PaulieDC said:


> Ah, OK. Several pages back I was speculating it would be the full LSO right down to the dude who turns out the lights in the hall. Being a clueless American, I didn't realize there was also a BBCSO (I know, I know...). So that's a possibility.
> 
> Hmmmm, my money is still on LSO AND, before the world loses him, John Williams conducting it all, every last articulation with the worlds best legato samples. You want to recreate Star Wars? Ba da BING, it can't get any closer to that, sitting on an SSD.
> 
> *SPITFIRE AUDIO PRESENTS, in a galaxy right here, next Wednesday...
> 
> STAR WARS*​
> Well, OK, actually the conductor, the orchestra, the hall and mercy sakes alive you'd better order a 4TB SSD because the massive London onslaught unleashes in 5 days...



John Williams in 87, and he was supposed to conduct his first UK concert in over two decades at the Royal Albert Hall with the LSO last October 26th. I know this because I was there.

Unfortunately, he was taken ill in London, and was flown home and another conductor Dirk Brosse stepped up to the baton - I don't see a return visit on the horizon.

Frankly, what on earth would an artist of his stature and advanced years want to do with creating a sample library......a tedious, time consuming and exhausting procedure at the best of times....

I've a feeling its the the SSO they've been promising for this year.... Or possibly they have bought into a recording venue like VSL have with Synchron....


----------



## PaulieDC

I was kind of thinking that the sampling was being worked on in the past and they are announcing the availability. But how would he keep up that grueling schedule, true... actually it's more just having fun. I don't have a clue what SFA is doing, lol.


----------



## Andrew0568

"four different bundles" coming?


----------



## erica-grace

> _Up until next Thursday, I think the people who make samples have been kinda the pirate radio of sound creation, really. And from Thursday, that changes._



WTH does_ that_ mean????

_Pirate radio or a pirate radio station is a radio station that broadcasts without a valid license._

Ok, so is he saying that SFA are going to change the entire industry?

Anyone want to try and read into that?


----------



## ism

No idea what that could possibly mean.


But it makes me think of Bill Nightly for some reason.


----------



## danbo

<don't have any Spitfire stuff so don't really care but am mildly curious>

They talk about a price and downloading something, so it's some kind of product they want you buy. Subscription has been done by EastWest, as has having a custom sampler (Play). Otherwise no idea.


----------



## SoNowWhat?

erica-grace said:


> WTH does_ that_ mean????
> 
> _Pirate radio or a pirate radio station is a radio station that broadcasts without a valid license._
> 
> Ok, so is he saying that SFA are going to change the entire industry?
> 
> Anyone want to try and read into that?


I think it is hinting at a move to partner with an existing major player (like for example The Beeb as has been suggested by some in this thread). The Pirate radio reference goes back to the UK of 40+ years ago and small scale DIY operations when mainstream wasn’t providing what was wanted. Punk played into that ethos too. Underground. Alternative. Pick your adjective.


----------



## CT

styledelk said:


> I wasn't really intending to jump in on this one, but Christian did camera over a planning board...



There was a lot of interesting stuff visible on that board, but I couldn't make any sense of it into a whole. It does feed my desire to work at Spitfire, though.


----------



## prodigalson

styledelk said:


> I wasn't really intending to jump in on this one, but Christian did camera over a planning board...



Hmmm...MVP....Maida Vale Project?


----------



## D Halgren

prodigalson said:


> Hmmm...MVP....Maida Vale Project?


Minimum viable product. It's business development jargon.


----------



## prodigalson

D Halgren said:


> Minimum viable product. It's business development jargon.



Ah. Boring.


----------



## D Halgren

prodigalson said:


> Ah. Boring.


#corporatecringe


----------



## Zedcars

You can bet your life CH told everyone in that dev room in advance that he was going in to film his vlog, despite how spontaneous and unannounced his arrival seems. They would have been asked to hide anything related to Wednesday’s announcement.


----------



## Zedcars

Christian just retweeted this:





> @chensonmusic did psneurope.com leak your big announcement? "Composer Alev Lenz releases new album and sample library bundle with SA Recordings"



Containing this link:





__





Live Gear - Mixonline






www.psneurope.com





Extract:



> The _3_ sample library features an interactive album element as well as unique sounds inspired by Lenz’s work as a composer. This is the first in a series of products tied in with SA album releases, focused on releasing artist-led libraries for music fans and music makers to create with.
> 
> The bundle that can be pre-ordered features the sample library, a limited edition 12-inch gatefold vinyl and digital download. The first 100 bundle orders will include a signed copy of the vinyl. The album bundle can be pre-ordered here.
> 
> Alev Lenz will release her third album _3_ on September 27, 2019 via SA Recordings (Bespoke 12” & Digital Formats).



It gets curiouser and curiouser!

EDIT: Some info was tweeted by SA Recordings 2 days ago (not sure if that was posted here?):


----------



## redlester

Maybe it’s a massive new orchestral sampling project, BBC or whatever, but the user can pick their own samples/instrumentation/articulations from a vast array comprising everything imaginable, and add to it as and when they require, with the price being calculated automatically at check out.


----------



## Loïc D

Alex Fraser said:


> Imagine drums and guitars sampled with John Peel's classic studio setup.


Ooooooh yes, I can imagine. 
What a fantastic idea you got !


----------



## Francis Bourre

Zedcars said:


> Christian just retweeted this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Containing this link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live Gear - Mixonline
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.psneurope.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Extract:
> 
> 
> 
> It gets curiouser and curiouser!
> 
> EDIT: Some info was tweeted by SA Recordings 2 days ago (not sure if that was posted here?):




This one was already announced on their youtube channel:


----------



## Zedcars

Francis Bourre said:


> This one was already announced on their youtube channel:



Cool. Makes sense they wouldn’t hide that, I just wasn’t paying attention!


----------



## gussunkri

Andrew0568 said:


> "four different bundles" coming?



That just refers to Oliver’s recent videos for some existing bundles.


----------



## styledelk

Zedcars said:


> You can bet your life CH told everyone in that dev room in advance that he was going in to film his vlog, despite how spontaneous and unannounced his arrival seems. They would have been asked to hide anything related to Wednesday’s announcement.



Yep. Anything seen is likely intentional.

On some more inspection, the whiteboard we see there seems like the master plan for publishing infrastructure (stuff like replacing the journal). But I wouldn't be surprised if there's a future announcement about a larger effort for a community for media composers.


----------



## Fleer

I do believe there’s a huge jump in musical experience to be made the following years, where recorded music and sample libraries get intertwined, allowing consumers to “play” their purchase both ways, by listening as well as creatively interacting.


----------



## Mornats

Spitfire emailed the Alev Lenz announcement a couple of days ago. It may have been just to their SA Recordings list though.

I love the concept of it I have to say. Releasing a sample library based on an album at the same time. I remember when Blue Planet 2 was on TV and I bought the soundtrack album and Orchestral Swarm and loved that tie-in.


----------



## DavidY

gussunkri said:


> That just refers to Oliver’s recent videos for some existing bundles.


Yes - if it was on 4th July, I thought 3 of them could be videos for the 3 "Scoring Bundles" which were released recently.


----------



## danbo

Leonard Gaspar said:


> Christian is obviously hyped but I'm a bit worried by his statement of this thing may not being everyone's cup of tea ... please don't be a special interests library ...



Seems likely to be something specialty. 

Consider: I like to study small companies and how they work as a hobby, and have wondered how Spitfire is doing it. Look at their staff, it's huge, and they've remodeled and moved. They've got people doing specialty jobs that a company 100 times their size wouldn't have, I remember a "event planner" to help employees feel part of the (small) company.

Compare to EastWest which has an equal or I think bigger catalog. They co-run a studio, and keep the two running by having a subscription revenue stream along with a studio revenue stream. I would guess their software business has no more than a dozen people working for it. 

In the US a young software engineer costs about $150k/year including overhead. I can't imagine London is much cheaper these days, call it $100k/year/employee average and 10 people gives you a million dollar budget. They've got way more than that. 

Clearly they had a capital infusion from investors, but somehow they have to grow, and given samples are a limited market that inevitably means coming out with lots of specialty things. And lo and behold they already do that with all of these "Hans ZImmer XYZ" composer libraries. Not my cup of tea for sure, in a sample library I want tools, not something that comes with a personality.


----------



## danbo

D Halgren said:


> #corporatecringe



(regarding MVP) - yeah, I'd cringe every time CH used the term. It was big in business like 20 YEARS AGO, all of a sudden Christian discovers it from work and it's the holy grail of getting things done. We abandoned it ages ago.


----------



## AllanH

danbo said:


> ...
> 
> Clearly they had a capital infusion from investors, but somehow they have to grow, ...



I believe they took venture funding in early 2017. Maybe they are going public 

Of course, as Spitfire Audio appears to be profitable, they would never go public in the US


----------



## danbo

AllanH said:


> I believe they took venture funding in early 2017. Maybe they are going public
> 
> Of course, as Spitfire Audio appears to be profitable, they would never go public in the US



Sampling has a small audience and a limited product space. There are maybe 30-50 instruments that people need sampled, beyond that it's just flavor of the month. Spitfire's approach is boutique offerings, unusual recording studio (Air with that nutty reverb that the studio does its best to damp) and composer branded libraries. CH has managed to build up a following which helps. Anyhow their business model doesn't look sustainable FWIW, I wonder how they pitched it to the VC's.


----------



## D Halgren

danbo said:


> Sampling has a small audience and a limited product space. There are maybe 30-50 instruments that people need sampled, beyond that it's just flavor of the month. Spitfire's approach is boutique offerings, unusual recording studio (Air with that nutty reverb that the studio does its best to damp) and composer branded libraries. CH has managed to build up a following which helps. Anyhow their business model doesn't look sustainable FWIW, I wonder how they pitched it to the VC's.


It seems that their plan is to diversify into other areas of the music industry.


----------



## AllanH

2 1/2 years after a round is about when the VCs start nagging you create a liquidity event or at least raise a second round. Fun to speculate ...


----------



## danbo

D Halgren said:


> It seems that their plan is to diversify into other areas of the music industry.



Yeah but what I wonder? I don't buy the idea of releasing albums alongside VI's being profitable. The public doesn't care about VI's, and if they did wouldn't know what to do with it. 



AllanH said:


> 2 1/2 years after a round is about when the VCs start nagging you create a liquidity event or at least raise a second round. Fun to speculate ...



Software projects run on 3 year timeframes these years (I remember when it was 10 years!) So yeah I could see building a project idea for six months or so, going to VC's and getting a chunk of change with a pitch for <GREAT NEW IDEA>, staffing/relocating up the project with a release now. That parts rings true - hard to see VC money on the idea that they've just been doing well so far, you have to show a growth path. 

OK, enough free marketing for Spitfire, time to hit <forgetaboutitdoesn'tmatter>!


----------



## VinRice

danbo said:


> OK, enough free marketing for Spitfire



I'm sure they're grateful for your insights...


----------



## justthere

Since Spitfire seem to like doing colors libraries and phrase-y libraries more and more, I hope that it's not more of that. And I hope it has nothing to do with networking composers or releasing projects created on Spitfire or something like that. 

One thing I was wondering about, though - if this is a BBC product, what if it's a license to have access to samples of BBC players that pays the players more than just for the original session? Sort of a "here's our massive library. The best library ever. It costs x to get in the door but x isn't too much - but if you use it in a commercial situation you have to pay again - so the musicians see a bit more money, but your initial costs are low, and if you are making money with music you can afford it." I mean, I doubt it's that, but I wonder if anyone would ever do that.


----------



## mistermister

danbo said:


> Consider: I like to study small companies and how they work as a hobby


A "young" (junior?, graduate?) software engineer in London is closer to $30-50k/year depending on various factors - Even a senior software developer is usually on much less than $100k+. A quick google of Spitfire Audio jobs finds that they recently advertised a PHP senior developer role for $70k and a senior front-end developer for $60k. For the kinds of rates you're talking about, you're looking at very specialized, very experienced engineers with high pressure jobs, who are on daily contracts. Also, not sure I'd call Spitfire a 'small company' nowadays - a 2019 picture on their website shows 60+ staff and I'd imagine that doesn't include everyone.


----------



## Loïc D

By the way, once the release is disclosed next Wednesday, shall we consider a small ceremony to bury this thread.
Something simple, a candle, a song of Celine Dion, some words from CH.
I’d like to be prepared.


----------



## Alex Fraser

LowweeK said:


> By the way, once the release is disclosed next Wednesday, shall we consider a small ceremony to bury this thread.
> Something simple, a candle, a song of Celine Dion, some words from CH.
> I’d like to be prepared.


No way! We move on to the next stage where we argue that Spitfire should have released the thing we thought it was, not the thing it turns out to be.


----------



## danbo

mistermister said:


> A "young" (junior?, graduate?) software engineer in London is closer to $30-50k/year depending on various factors - Even a senior software developer is usually on much less than $100k+.



Whoa! OK, well you could do something with that. Here were I live in California (North of Bay Area) starting engineers are $60k-$70k, experienced are up to $150, plus overhead (benefits, desk, management). Surprising since London is a major city with a pretty active tech community AFAIK. Certainly real estate isn't cheap, like here. I guess young people are more OK with life in an apartment. The new engineers we're hiring are upset they have no hope of saving up for a $600k starter house. (Edit: when I said a young engineer costs $150 above I was talking about total cost including overhead, $120k-$150k is what we figure for project planning at any rate around here). 



> A quick google of Spitfire Audio jobs finds that they recently advertised a PHP senior developer role for $70k and a senior front-end developer for $60k. For the kinds of rates you're talking about, you're looking at very specialized, very experienced engineers with high pressure jobs, who are on daily contracts. Also, not sure I'd call Spitfire a 'small company' nowadays - a 2019 picture on their website shows 60+ staff and I'd imagine that doesn't include everyone.



There's no definition but the way my day job is considered a medium sized company at some ten thousand people. I'd think it would be a few thousand at least before you break out of small - and ideally you'd have multiple global locations.


----------



## Michael Antrum

danbo said:


> There's no definition but the way my day job is considered a medium sized company at some ten thousand people. I'd think it would be a few thousand at least before you break out of small - and ideally you'd have multiple global locations.



In the UK a medium size company is typically considered to be 100-999 employees.....

A small company is less than 100 employees....

I suppose everything's bigger in Texas......


----------



## erica-grace

danbo said:


> There's no definition but the way my day job is considered a medium sized company at some ten thousand people



There is in fact a definition, and your business is considered large, not medium.

Small businesses are usually defined as organizations with fewer than 100 employees; midsize enterprises are those organizations with 100 to 999 employees.

There are some exceptio0ns for differnet industries and revenue, however.


----------



## VinRice

Alex Fraser said:


> No way! We move on to the next stage where we argue that Spitfire should have released the thing we thought it was, not the thing it turns out to be.



Yes! That's the best bit. Where we get to project our personal fears, desires and inadequacies on a bunch of strangers who are just trying to make a buck. Good times. Personally I hope that they make that big stupid round knob that nobody uses in the Spitfire player even larger - or an expansion pack for Phobos where BT provides another hundred variations on that one drum loop he invented...

...it's been a long day.


----------



## Mark Schmieder

Wow, 34 pages in, and I haven't a clue what this product is, after scanning twelve random pages in the thread! I ignored it until today, thinking it must be a Punk Rock library due to the "London Calling" moniker, and only finally dipped in to the thread to see if it is one of the two that talks about the new organ library, as someone was chastised for starting a new thread about that. When I searched "organ", I certainly did not see two recent threads, just the product announcement in the unpaid section.

Who has the attention span or time, for these long-drawn-out and obtuse product rollouts? It smacks of ego as well. nevertheless, I admire Spitfire as a company and love most of the products of theirs that I bought (and don't dislike the ones I haven't really used much yet). But the hyperbole can be a bit much!


----------



## givemenoughrope

It’s Sable part II with loads of useful long and shorts EVOs/Waves/short articulations. 👍


----------



## Mark Schmieder

Cool; thanks for saving people the trouble of reading 34 pages of speculation and complaints!  

Yeah, I don't use Sable yet, so I'll pass, as the budget is tight right now. One of these days I may find use for it. It's probably the only Spitfire purchase that I literally have not used for anything at all. I can't remember why; it might have been too wet for me.


----------



## givemenoughrope

It is pretty wet but it sounds great. Are there other SF strings you use instead? Just curious.


----------



## Mark Schmieder

Not really. Every time I try other strings, I come back to VSL's Solo Strings and Chamber Strings, but the one exception is the new Spitfire Studio Strings as I find it extremely useful for divisi work in the Violin section and it is now my top choice if I want something other than a chamber-sized ensemble. I find it very flexible too, across many genres.


----------



## givemenoughrope

Interesting. I would have been all over SSS except for the lack of shorts and sound seeming a bit harsh. I'll take another listen.


----------



## jaketanner

Zedcars said:


> Christian just retweeted this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Containing this link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live Gear - Mixonline
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.psneurope.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Extract:
> 
> 
> 
> It gets curiouser and curiouser!
> 
> EDIT: Some info was tweeted by SA Recordings 2 days ago (not sure if that was posted here?):



Man this is getting more disappointing...if it is some weird collaboration, I'm gonna be pissed...LOL The last few releases were nothing short of let downs, and if this doesn't turn out to be a killer library, then I think SFA will lose its hold over those of us who enjoy standard orchestral libraries.


----------



## Mark Schmieder

I like harsh, for strings. Cuts through better. I use Spitfire Studio Strings especially when I have an ostinato pattern, arpeggiated phrases, etc. I find it very warm, with just enough touch of brightness, that note attack and detache both sound very dynamic and convincing to me.


----------



## givemenoughrope

^I lean on 8dio for those kind of strings as well as legato. But that is interesting. Listening to some demos now.


----------



## scoringdreams

Is (the new) Albion 2 Loegria coming out anytime soon?...


----------



## Zedcars

Mark Schmieder said:


> Wow, 34 pages in, and I haven't a clue what this product is, after scanning twelve random pages in the thread! I ignored it until today, thinking it must be a Punk Rock album due to the "London Calling" moniker, and only finally dipped in to the thread to see if it is one of the two that talks about the new organ library, as someone was chastised for starting a new thread about that. When I searched "organ", I certainly did not see two recent threads, just the product announcement in the unpaid section.
> 
> Who has the attention span or time, for these long-drawn-out and obtuse product rollouts? It smacks of ego as well. nevertheless, I admire Spitfire as a company and love most of the products of theirs that I bought (and don't dislike the ones I haven't really used much yet). But the hyperbole can be a bit much!


Evidence seems to point to a new string library featuring the BBC Symphonic Orchestra recorded at Maida Vale Studios. The library may include other sections, but there’s no evidence for that at the moment. Also, there is probably more to the announcement than that judging by things Christian has said.


----------



## Mark Schmieder

Well, they do say it's their "biggest" news yet, so maybe along the lines of those other "super-sized" ensembles (Eric Whitaker Choir, and Hans Zimmer Strings), except maybe phrase-based instead of single-hit.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Here is the info we have:
"Biggest Anouncement"
"Sampling Milestone"
"Sul Tasto"
Vi-Control: 34 pages! 
How do they do that? Every marketing agency or individual needs to study Spitfire!


----------



## LinusW

DarkestShadow said:


> Here is the info we have:


You forgot Christian's vlog.


Christian Henson said:


> Up until next Thursday (SIC! Later corrected as Wednesday), I think people who make samples have been the kind of pirate radio of sound creation really. And from Thursday (SIC! Again, Wednesday) that changes.



Ok, could it be a sampler that is more open to content creators than Kontakt? Lowering the threshold for small third party content creators where Kontakt and Creator Tools are not needed.


----------



## Stevo B

I think it'll be Albion Two as the ensemble patch versions of the full BBCSO along with Edna/Brunel patches etc based on BBC archive material including the radiophonic workshop. And it'll integrate with the new full BBCSO. That's my Christmas stocking wish (in August) anyway. Plus I've had a few ales 👍


----------



## Zedcars

So in addition to the sample library they are announcing, I’ve been thinking about that statement CH made. The BBC have a lot of radio stations. Is there a possibility that Spitfire have negotiated a partnership with them for a radio station (maybe DAB, or web-based), or at least a segment on an existing radio station, where composers can showcase their work and have it broadcast? The statement about the “pirate radio” could just be a metaphor, and I think that’s how people are taking it. But, what if he’s being literal?


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

LinusW said:


> You forgot Christian's vlog.
> 
> 
> Ok, could it be a sampler that is more open to content creators than Kontakt? Lowering the threshold for small third party content creators where Kontakt and Creator Tools are not needed.


Yea, I bet I missed some things... although I bet and it looks like most don't have all the bits from different outlets and we're still hitting page 36 soon. 
Even if you have all the bits, still very nebulous. Would't you say that based on all that's out there, 35 pages is quite extraordinary?  (And it looks like we were already at page 33 or so when Christians vlog came)


----------



## Rey

if its really BBC orchestra anyone dare to say how much its gonna be?


----------



## Mornats

LinusW said:


> Ok, could it be a sampler that is more open to content creators than Kontakt? Lowering the threshold for small third party content creators where Kontakt and Creator Tools are not needed.



They would be amazing and that's what I'm hoping it is. Removing the barrier to entry for creating sample libraries (and buying and using them) would be an announcement that would change the sampling industry in my opinion.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

It's time Kontakt gets some competiton! You get complacent if you are the only one selling/providing something, so - an open sampler would be great!


----------



## jamwerks

I wouldn't be surprised if at some time they let other devs license on their player.


----------



## Denkii

Rey said:


> if its really BBC orchestra anyone dare to say how much its gonna be?


999,- Base
1399,- Pro

749,- intro base
999,- intro pro


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Denkii said:


> 999,- Base
> 1399,- Pro
> 
> 749,- intro base
> 999,- intro pro


At those prices they had better throw in the annual BBC telly licence!


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

What ever it is - I hope the legato will not be broken like in HZ Strings. I'm forever weary of SF and big projects.


----------



## mikeh-375

I hope it comes out before the pound crashes out of existence post-Boris..Brexit


----------



## danbo

Why 35 pages of conjecture? Maybe because VI's are actually a slow moving field so any news is interesting. 

If it is the BBC Orchestra why would that be significant? I don't understand the thinking behind boutique libraries, the point with a VI it seems is to get the distillation of an instrument, without individuality, such that it can be used elsewhere. What makes any orchestra great is how they are able to play some piece together as a group to capture the emotion and spirit. But take the players, split them up and have them play one note at a time as evenly as possible? No difference between one and another, a sampled instrument has to be played without emotion. A studio musician would probably be better than top orchestral because they're used to that kind of thing.


----------



## VinRice

mikeh-375 said:


> I hope it comes out before the pound crashes out of existence post-Boris..Brexit



Don't worry, we'll be switching to USDollars soon...


----------



## danbo

VinRice said:


> Don't worry, we'll be switching to USDollars soon...



<Digression> I was working in Germany when the UK joined in the EU, except they kept the Pound. My German colleagues all muttered "the Brits always feel like they're special ..." Brexit wasn't a great surprise, but one way or another I hope it works out well.

Now in the US we _know_ we're special, just ask our President.


----------



## Fleer

danbo said:


> Why 35 pages of conjecture? Maybe because VI's are actually a slow moving field so any news is interesting.


Maybe it’s just us.


----------



## VinRice

Well, we are about to have that rose-tinted colonial nostalgic fantasy knocked right out of us.

It will not work out well.


----------



## pinki

Want to know why Spitfire are rejoicing right now? David Cameron is lining their coffers. There was never a better time to sell from the UK to the US, ever: the pound has catastrophically collapsed similar to end of era communism scenarios...and still there are people in the UK thinking Brexit is a good thing????????

...and Spitfire are laughing all the way to the bank

(My wife solely imports stock from the US for her business - we are heading towards ruin.)


----------



## VinRice

danbo said:


> <Digression> I was working in Germany when the UK joined in the EU, except they kept the Pound. My German colleagues all muttered "the Brits always feel like they're special ...



That was actually a very sensible strategic decision, nothing to do with attitude. All countries think they are special.


----------



## VinRice

pinki said:


> My wife solely imports stock from the US for her business - we are heading towards ruin.



Same here - my side business has already collapsed.


----------



## pinki

The Torys f--k over the UK yet again..what a surprise.


----------



## danbo

VinRice said:


> That was actually a very sensible strategic decision, nothing to do with attitude. All countries think they are special.



<my naive thinking> but didn't it lay the groundwork for Brexit? Seems like if the UK was on the EU Brexit would be much harder than it already is, or practically impossible. 



pinki said:


> Want to know why Spitfire are rejoicing right now? David Cameron is lining their coffers. There was never a better time to sell from the UK to the US, ever: the pound has catastrophically collapsed similar to end of era communism scenarios...and still there are people in the UK thinking Brexit is a good thing????????



Even with the better exchange I don't find Spitfire a good value (putting aside how much you might like or dislike their offerings). Staying local with EastWest out of Hollywood is a much cheaper proposition, and they have a more expansive catalog too. Catch them on a regular sale and it's even better, I got three vocal libraries for a combined $300 recently, amazing.


----------



## VinRice

Drama


danbo said:


> but didn't it lay the groundwork for Brexit? Seems like if the UK was on the EU Brexit would be much harder than it already is, or practically impossible



No it actually made Brexit less likely at that point in time. In fact Brexit was only a fever dream of a few nutcases at that point. If you remember the Euro came close to a collapse with Portugal, Spain, Greece and Italy all failing to keep their debt commitments. This would have created enormous pressure in the UK had we been part of the Eurozone. Gordon Brown was a terrible Prime Minister but a great Chancellor


----------



## mistermister

pinki said:


> ...and Spitfire are laughing all the way to the bank


Pretty sure based on CH's vlogs, the way he has talked about politics in the past and his general attitude, that's just not true.


----------



## VinRice

I predict a visit to the naughty step (Drama Zone) imminent...


----------



## gsilbers

oh.. seems they opening up a online store for 3rd party developers? like their labs range but anyone can upload. thats my guess after going full on software and leaving kontakt. 
we should start a bet and everyone plays $5 to play and wins it all if they get it!. "vegas is calling"


----------



## pinki

mistermister said:


> Pretty sure based on CH's vlogs, the way he has talked about politics in the past and his general attitude, that's just not true.


Well I'm not implying they are unsympathetic..but they are definitely not in financial trouble like companies who are importing. They fundamentally are exporting and a collapsed pound makes that the best of times.


----------



## VinRice

pinki said:


> ...and Spitfire are laughing all the way to the bank



Spitfire aren't a traditional manufacturing company so the potential for leveraging exchange rate fluctuations isn't as useful as you might think. Depends how the business is structured geographically.


----------



## mistermister

pinki said:


> Well I'm not implying they are unsympathetic..


Then 'Laughing all the way to the bank' and 'Spitfire are rejoicing' are probably not great choices of words. You also make an assumption that their customer base is largely outside the UK, which is probably likely, but still an assumption. Could well be most of their custom is UK and or EU.



coffeecomposer said:


> If they're leaving Kontakt, they'd better refund me the $400 I spent on Kontakt 5 just to use their libraries.


Pretty sure most of their libraries (at least all recent ones) didn't need you to buy Kontakt 5 as they're player libraries.


----------



## DavidY

VinRice said:


> I predict a visit to the naughty step (Drama Zone) imminent...


Isn't there a Forum political area which these posts could be banished to? I admit I don't frequent it much, not least because it doesn't appear in the searches.


----------



## pinki

mistermister said:


> Then 'Laughing all the way to the bank' and 'Spitfire are rejoicing' are probably not great choices of words. You also make an assumption that their customer base is largely outside the UK, which is probably likely, but still an assumption. Could well be most of their custom is UK and or EU.
> 
> Pretty sure most of their libraries (at least all recent ones) didn't need you to buy Kontakt 5 as they're player libraries.



Yes OK- 
But come on, they will be rejoicing- their main customer base is not little old UK, it's the world outside the UK. So..good times for them. Is that better put?


----------



## pinki

DavidY said:


> Isn't there a Forum political area which these posts could be banished to? I admit I don't frequent it much, not least because it doesn't appear in the searches.



Yes but after 36 pages of talking about absolutely nothing, does it matter?


----------



## danbo

pinki said:


> Yes OK-
> But come on, they will be rejoicing- their main customer base is not little old UK, it's the world outside the UK. So..good times for them. Is that better put?



Begs the question: when buying Spitfire with USD do you get the straight up exchange rate? Which one? They detect my region and give me a dollar price which could be anything.

For example HZS is $800 USD right now @1.25 Pound/$, what is the price on 'the inside'?


----------



## VinRice

DavidY said:


> Isn't there a Forum political area which these posts could be banished to? I admit I don't frequent it much, not least because it doesn't appear in the searches.



Yeah you don't want to go in there, it's full of crazy people.


----------



## danbo

I wonder if Spitfire is generating too much hype here, might be in danger of being a big disappointment and turning people off.


----------



## VinRice

danbo said:


> I wonder if Spitfire is generating too much hype here, might be in danger of being a big disappointment and turning people off.



WE'RE generating the hype! Of course there will be disappointment, people love to whinge, but we are but the tip of a much larger iceberg of potential customers. It's the same for leading companies in any industry.


----------



## D Halgren

danbo said:


> Begs the question: when buying Spitfire with USD do you get the straight up exchange rate? Which one? They detect my region and give me a dollar price which could be anything.
> 
> For example HZS is $800 USD right now @1.25 Pound/$, what is the price on 'the inside'?


No, they stopped doing exchange rate, in favor of a flat price, when the pound dropped against the dollar in 2017. At least I got a great deal on the Albion bundle before that transition.


----------



## coffeecomposer

Their marketing is definitely annoying. I use them for my core orchestra because I wanted Lyndhurst (and at the price it was a no-brainer). I personally lump the rest of their products and ignore all the hype. Unless this new change is profound, nothing will change for me.


----------



## Alex Fraser

VinRice said:


> WE'RE generating the hype! Of course there will be disappointment, people love to whinge, but we are but the tip of a much larger iceberg of potential customers. It's the same for leading companies in any industry.


Yep. VI control always thinks it's the epicentre of the sample world. With all due love to the forum, it really isn't.


----------



## danbo

VinRice said:


> WE'RE generating the hype!



Semantics, marketing (of which they have a substantially sized department AFAIK) is the art of generating hype. Our reactions are a result of how good they are at their jobs. For this one they've certainly loaded it to bear with the teasers and hints. Me? I'm between projects and bored


----------



## CT

I've never found SF marketing annoying. Certain repetitive responses to it, however....


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

pinki said:


> Yes OK-
> But come on, they will be rejoicing- their main customer base is not little old UK, it's the world outside the UK. So..good times for them. Is that better put?



Their team is stocked with talent from Europe and beyond, and has benefited hugely from free movement. Also they work in an industry and institutions (studios, orchestras etc) which are largely state-agnostic and progressive, outward-looking, so I very much doubt anyone at Spitfire sees Brexit as 'good times' regardless of any exchange rate-based windfall.


----------



## coffeecomposer

I fail to see how Brexit has anything to do with Spitfire as a company.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

the last BIG ANNOUNCEMENT i was paying attention to was from Plugin Alliance/Brainworx.

after all their blowout sales, i had little interest in signing up - i'm even letting my current vouchers expire.

after last year's SA sale, i am feeling the same way about this announcement.

i am flush with libraries.

and after all this madness, i FINALLY have a DAW/Articulation Management system that is usable, even motivating.

here's hoping for a huge disappointment so i can quit getting distracted by the latest shiny object.

self-control, wha?


----------



## LinusW

danbo said:


> I was working in Germany when the UK joined in the EU, except they kept the Pound. My German colleagues all muttered "the Brits always feel like they're special ..."


Sweden is in the EU but kept the Krona. Not heard anything similar about us from the germs. 

Ok, back to topic!


----------



## Zero&One

I'll be bitterly disappointed is this doesn't hit 40 pages by Wednesday. Be like we failed.


----------



## coffeecomposer

James H said:


> I'll be bitterly disappointed is this doesn't hit 40 pages by Wednesday. Be like we failed.


It will.


----------



## lumcas

James H said:


> I'll be bitterly disappointed is this doesn't hit 40 pages by Wednesday. Be like we failed.



OK, here's one to this great achievement!!! I mean 40p thread, not the news.


----------



## AllanH

let me help get the thread to 40 pages! 

I would love to see Spitfire innovate in a new technical way related to sampling, sample-playback, or the business model. I hope it's more than a big dial in the middle of the UI. The Spitfire team have proven talented over the years and have definitely upped their game, so maybe this is fact a game changer.

Epic has proven that you can do very well with an open source world-class engine (Unreal) and then recoup licensing when used commercially. That would change the field 100%.


----------



## cpaf

Okay my guess! (40 p is a must right?) 

A new way to approach sampling. So a kind of real time generative sample based synthesis where you dont need to make a thousand round Robins and you can record all articulations just one time and have Ai do real time sample based synthesis for naturalism while all the math result in a dramatik fall in RAM usage (as there are way less samples). If you search for "game synth tsugi" you'll follow my thoughts i guess


----------



## VinRice

danbo said:


> Semantics, marketing (of which they have a substantially sized department AFAIK) is the art of generating hype.



No that's only small part of what marketing is - but it's the part that most people see so I can understand the confusion. 

Also, can I start the movement to reclaim the word 'hype' for it's correct meaning? As in hyperbole - an exaggeration not meant to be taken seriously and used for comedic or narrative effect? By definition advertising cannot contain hyperbole (at least in most countries) since it would constitute an illegal untruth unless the comedy/irony was explicit.

In none of Spitfire's pronouncements is there any 'hype'. If they say it is the largest announcement they have ever made - then it is. WE CREATE THE HYPE.


----------



## VinRice

cpaf said:


> A new way to approach sampling. So a kind of real time generative sample based synthesis where you dont need to make a thousand round Robins and you can record all articulations just one time and have Ai do real time sample based synthesis for naturalism while all the math result in a dramatik fall in RAM usage (as there are way less samples)



I think that's definitely a stage for the future. In fact it's almost what Orchestral Tools announced in January (that is still to appear). The legato, head, sustain and release portions of the note are all separate and combined on the fly when a key is pressed. The sustain portion can be synthesised to some extent (because its the least dynamic and the part we are the least sensitive to) allowing notes of any arbitrary shape, length and vibrato without requiring thousands of samples.


----------



## AllanH

cpaf said:


> [...] If you search for "game synth tsugi" you'll follow my thoughts i guess



Interesting. This is a bit like the procedural shaders in 3D rendering with an architecture and workflow on top (i.e. like (in the days) renderman). Fascinating!


----------



## muk

VinRice said:


> Also, can I start the movement to reclaim the word 'hype' for it's correct meaning? As in hyperbole - an exaggeration not meant to be taken seriously and used for comedic or narrative effect? By definition advertising cannot contain hyperbole (at least in most countries) since it would constitute an illegal untruth unless the comedy/irony was explicit.
> 
> In none of Spitfire's pronouncements is there any 'hype'. If they say it is the largest announcement they have ever made - then it is. WE CREATE THE HYPE.



Hard facts need to be true in advertising. With subjective statements, however, you have a lot of freedom. How could anybody ever prove that an announcement was not "our biggest announcement ever"? It's not possible. That means that such a statement is absolutely legal, i. e. it is _not_ forbidden by law. But it does not mean that everybody has to agree with it. When people write that Spitfire marketing frequently uses hyperbolic language, it means that they think that the subjective statements used by Spitfire marketing are, in their opinion, frequently exaggerated.



VinRice said:


> If they say it is the largest announcement they have ever made - then it is.



If Spitfire says something it is automatically true? I hope that's not what you were trying to say. The only meaningful reading I see is this: If they say it is the largest announcment they have ever made - then it is for them. That's very likely true. But it doesn't mean that we all need to share that opinion. Everybody can decide for themselves after the announcement took place.

I think the frequent complaints on this board about Spitfire's marketing strategies show that many people often do not agree with the subjective statements they make, and wish they would tone it down a little, and generally provide more facts and less subjective opinion. If you saw some of their past ads and campaigns I find that a reasonable request. But that is itself a subjective opinion not everybody has to agree with.


----------



## Zero&One

If it truly is their largest announcement, then is it an opinion?


----------



## germancomponist

Zedcars said:


> At 20:35 CH mentions a new library:



The stand for the coffee cup is very cool and on the absolutely best place. Yeah, I remember some sad stories about coffee dripping into my mixer etc. ... .


----------



## muk

How do you define the size of an announcement? Maybe you could do it for the event itself. For the event itself you could say that it is a factual statement. But that's not what is being discussed here most of the time. People are wondering if they will agree with the slogan 'our biggest announcement ever' regarding the product/service/whatever that will be unveiled. And that clearly is an opinion.
On top of that, whether the product/service/whatever will be 'a massive chapter marker in the _history_ of _sampling', _that may be decided after decades, if ever. So for now it's not falsifiable and thus can only be treated as an opinion.


----------



## justthere

I'd like to see this hit 40, and this is entertaining to me. So:

Pirate Radio to me means "thrown together by individuals operating outside a regulatory authority". 

Applied to sampling? It's hard to parse. It's kind of like saying that small developers are like criminals and so are their users, if one is to take the sense of pirate radio as applied to Radio Luxembourg in the sixties, because of the usage being beyond regulations. So it's like he is saying we all have been doing it wrong so far. I'd wondered if it meant that we would pay a fee to the BBC Orchestra every time we used the library commercially - which is certainly a great way to share profits with the musicians that we would have nothing without, and without precedent on this scale. There was a time when if you used some sound libraries - loop-based ones - you would have to credit the creators. That came and went - though it was fair, most users just didn't feel like doing it. But would they object to a very inexpensive entrance to a library that only cost when you were going to make money with it?

The other sense of Pirate Radio I think he might be using is simply that people have been making libraries without standards, and perhaps Spitfire wants to impose some. Beyond UACC, which isn't universal.

I'd really like it if they make an attempt to go the way that SampleModeling and AudioModeling have gone with controllability - and as cpaf says, making use of synthesis for state transitions would be great - if done well - but it seems like RAM is cheap compared to CPU power, so that might not be much of a market motivator - and honestly, given the marketplace and how so many people would rather play a recording of an instrument that sounds kind of emotive than make the instrument actually do that, I would have my doubts. Happy to be wrong about it, though. But that doesn't seem to have anything to do with Pirate Radio.

I need a new library for strings very shortly, and what Spitfire have been putting out isn't quite getting it for me. I like a lot of the detailed character and vitality of the Orchestral Tools things, and really love their idea (upcoming) of being able to make mixes of all the room mics and then render those as a single stereo custom-mix mic position, saving system resources. So that would be a great feature. And I'd really like a dry, forward perspective available, more than what's available. These are things I'm hoping for. If not now then soon.


----------



## lumcas

If everything in life would be as easy as making this thread 40 pages long.... it wouldn't be much fun


----------



## Zero&One

If every previous announcement was a library, or a library and a new player.
Then an announcement of a say a library, collaboration and updates to existing libs would surely be their biggest announcement. 3 things. As it is by fact the biggest one they have done (using that example).

Our biggest announcement doesn't necessarily mean "our best announcement", that being an opinion. Only SA know the answer to this at the moment.
But I'd imagine they have discussed this at length knowing the potential backlash at the sentence.


----------



## jamwerks

SF libraries of late have often been on the inexpensive side. I wouldn't be surprised if this new line is more expensive. But if the sound, arts & programming is innovative & top notch, I'm all in.


----------



## justthere

VinRice said:


> The sustain portion can be synthesised to some extent (because its the least dynamic and the part we are the least sensitive to)



What? No. What?

Attacks are important, releases are important, but they are also the shortest things in a note for anything but spiccato. There ought to be plenty of dynamics in the sustain available. Otherwise it will sound static. It seems to me that they said something about sustains being like that in their keynote, and I didn't buy it there either. I can't think of a single historic example of using great attacks somehow making poor sustains ok. 

When I think of synthesizing sustains, I think of a sort of wavetable interpolation - where one captures several levels of dynamics, aligns them as sort of reference points, and interpolates a continuous morph between those values. The more the better. But that doesn't seem to work for ensembles because of the non-periodic variations that occur over time - random detuning and beatings, and at varying intensities due to varying loudness of individual instruments - and these variations, in order to be simulated, have to have a very intelligent pseudorandomization that constrains itself in varying amounts along different vectors according to the behavior that's being simulated - for example, the spread of vibrato that is similar among a group of people listening to each other without being homogeneous, but is not truly random, and the way that changes over time as a section leans into vibrato, and how that changes as a new note is approached. Like simulating the movements of birds in a flock as they change direction. It's no place to slack off, in other words. The best part of instruments like the SM and AM ones is what you can say with a single held note and all of the things you can do with it.


----------



## VinRice

muk said:


> think the frequent complaints on this board about Spitfire's marketing strategies show that many people often do not agree with the subjective statements they make, and wish they would tone it down a little, and generally provide more facts and less subjective opinion. If you saw some of their past ads and campaigns I find that a reasonable request. But that is itself a subjective opinion not everybody has to agree with.



The point is that such people that complain about the marketing are overly sensitised to it because of the focus of this forum and the fact that Spitfire are the most successful company in the space. In the big wide world where 90%+ of Spitfire's customers exist, there is no such sentiment because the level of exposure is much smaller - a print advert here, a review there etc. Also, complaining about hyperbole in advertising is like complaining about water in the Ocean. It's the system man.

I'm well aware of every single Spitfire campaign from the past 6 years or so and in general they are very good. You could complain about certain aspects of execution from a technical point of view but in general the campaigns are well designed and professional. I think what people actually resent is their own weakness in the face of compelling products. I know I do on occasion (fuck you HZ Strings).

Do I believe Christian when he says that this is their largest announcement to date? Yes of course I do. I think that will turn out to be both objectively and subjectively true.


----------



## VinRice

justthere said:


> Attacks are important, releases are important, but they are also the shortest things in a note for anything but spiccato. There ought to be plenty of dynamics in the sustain available. Otherwise it will sound static



You misunderstand, I mean dynamics in the technical sense of the word. I.e. the difference over time between the loudest and softest signals. Clearly attacks and releases are the most dynamic parts of the note. Yes of course there should be _variation_ in the sustain portion of the note but at the moment we have little control over that apart from crossfading between different samples.


----------



## justthere

I don't think I'm misunderstanding you - I just take issue with the idea that we aren't sensitive to level changes in sustains when it comes to perception of realism. And we do have control over it to a large degree, though not always in the best way in traditional libraries like Spitfire's. It kind of sounded like you were saying if we had good attacks and releases then the sustain wasn't such big deal. I disagree, that's all. 



VinRice said:


> You misunderstand, I mean dynamics in the technical sense of the word. I.e. the difference over time between the loudest and softest signals. Clearly attacks and releases are the most dynamic parts of the note. Yes of course there should be _variation_ in the sustain portion of the note but at the moment we have little control over that apart from crossfading between different samples.


----------



## VinRice

justthere said:


> I just take issue with the idea that we aren't sensitive to level changes in sustains when it comes to perception of realism



Well, I said less sensitive, not insensitive and I don't know what to tell you - it just happens to be a fact.


----------



## Mark Schmieder

It's the first Ragtime library!


----------



## Fleer

Solace, at last.


----------



## danbo

I doubt they'll have some new innovative software technology. 


CH has said that "they're not a sampler company" - e.g. they make VI's not the software. That could change, but ...
There's no way they could go from zero - no sampler - to beating all of their competitors who have been working on this for decades
There's no way they could do that without hiring some industry top talent, which AFAIK they mainly staff with young new folks
They couldn't pull that off in a few short years since getting funding
Unlikely they could do that in parallel with the other libraries they've been releasing
Companies have a DNA, and C & P know nothing about software but lots about sampling, and Spitfire has that written all over it. 

The two key bits are the "London is calling" and "pirate radio" as others have mentioned. So some kind of thing with the BBC seems obvious, like a BBC symphony orchestra library. OTOH this kind of library takes years, given their other releases I don't see how they could have pulled it off.


----------



## danbo

VinRice said:


> the fact that Spitfire are the most successful company in the space



Are they, do you have market share numbers? Not being snide but without hard data that's ill defined. VSO is the big brother, EastWest is the venerable choice been there for years with Spitfire as a relatively new comer. I think of them as the Tesla of VI's - big fan base, lots of attention, but the other companies are probably bigger in terms of customer base and revenue. 

Note I have no idea either, just speculating, but since these are all private companies we don't know their relative popularity. My impression is that the big composers buy stuff from all of them, at least as evidenced by their templates.


----------



## germancomponist

A new library with happy music phrases, called "The Brexit, fuck that german EU"


----------



## jononotbono

Please be HZ Brass. And please be under 1tb 😂


----------



## mistermister

jononotbono said:


> Please be HZ Brass. And please be under 1tb 😂


 Not sure Brass has 'Tasto', unfortunately :(


----------



## jononotbono

mistermister said:


> Not sure Brass has 'Tasto', unfortunately :(



Oh, has Sul Tasto been mentioned? I haven’t read this whole thread. Have I missed much? 😂


----------



## NYC Composer

Page 38.


----------



## D Halgren

39?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

AllanH said:


> Interesting. This is a bit like the procedural shaders in 3D rendering with an architecture and workflow on top (i.e. like (in the days) renderman). Fascinating!




Node based.

The Houdini of sampling.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

geico


----------



## VinRice

germancomponist said:


> A new library with happy music phrases, called "The Brexit, fuck that german EU"



Who says Germans don't have a sense of humour! (?)


----------



## VinRice

jononotbono said:


> Oh, has Sul Tasto been mentioned? I haven’t read this whole thread. Have I missed much? 😂



Didn't you get the memo about a subscription service?


----------



## Mark Schmieder

Sul Tasto is why I said Ragtime BTW. 

Are we on page 39 yet?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

VinRice said:


> Who says Germans don't have a sense of humour! (?)


----------



## Francis Bourre

I'm sure this thread can go even bigger. Sounds like it's the announcement of another announcement. I mean, the library introduced Wednesday will be only released mid October (info taken from latest pianobook video).


----------



## Mark Schmieder

So I think what you're saying, is that we should make this thread even bigger than the announcement itself?

Has anyone mentioned the overused term "game-changer" yet?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo




----------



## cqd

So..Who's going to subscribe?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo




----------



## Zoot_Rollo




----------



## Zoot_Rollo




----------



## Zoot_Rollo




----------



## Zoot_Rollo




----------



## Zoot_Rollo




----------



## Zoot_Rollo




----------



## Zoot_Rollo

miket said:


> Wait... is the page count going down?!



yes


----------



## 0cme

BBC Orch + Chorus running on a new, node-based, free, and open source software sampler


----------



## 0cme

(it also makes toast)


----------



## AdamKmusic

100% BBC related. The latest photo they just added to the commercial announcement thread has the file name of “auntiemicrophone”. Searching Auntie Microphone on google brings this up http://www.grossi.co.uk/auntiebbc.htm


----------



## muk

Let's have another info recap in an otherwise completely useless thread, shall we?


'This is London calling', the microphone in the background picture, and 'auntiemicrophone' all clearly point to the BBC.
In January 2018 Spitfire Audio had a recording session with the BBC Symphony Orchestra cello section at Maida Vale.
Mr. Henson mentioned 'sul tasto' when talking about the upcoming release. So clearly it involves strings.
 Mr. Henson called it their most ambitious project to date.

From all these facts it is reasonable to expect a library with BBC Symphony Orchestra strings, and probably the other sections as well, recorded at Maida Vale. As it is their most ambitious project yet, either the library/libraries with the BBC SO will surpass their current line of symphonic libraries in scale and scope, and/or the collaboration with the BBC goes even further than the recordings with the BBC SO.


----------



## Michael Antrum

/POLITICSON

As someone who was involved in couple of relatively sizeable companies that manufactured both inside and outside the EU, I find it odd that everyone seems to think that the weakness of the pound is down to Brexit alone.

I remember getting over $2 to the pound and it collapsed to around $ 1.50 not because of Brexit, which hadn't even been a consideration back then, but because of the printing presses of Quantitative Easing. It also had the side effect of stealing wealth from all those who'd saved in ISA's and Pensions, and in some part stimulated the buy to let boom.

I don't remember anyone giving us the 'end of the UK economy' speech back then. But then, it has long been thought that the pound is the most overvalued currency on the world...

https://www.businessinsider.com/pound-world-most-overvalued-currency-ubs-2017-11?r=US&IR=T

There are lots of valid arguments for staying in or leaving the EU, but the banking system ? The ticking time bomb that is Deutschebank - well, let's just say it might best to retire to minimum safe distance before that particular situation come to a head.

The only value in fiat currencies is that which people believe it has, and when the EU leadership stop admiring the emperors new clothes, they will have to deal with a problem that is all too likely to be beyond them.



/POLITICSOFF


----------



## Parsifal666

Maybe we should just give 'em enough rope...


----------



## VinRice

Michael Antrum said:


> /POLITICSON
> 
> As someone who was involved in couple of relatively sizeable companies that manufactured both inside and outside the EU, I find it odd that everyone seems to think that the weakness of the pound is down to Brexit alone.
> 
> I remember getting over $2 to the pound and it collapsed to around $ 1.50 not because of Brexit, which hadn't even been a consideration back then, but because of the printing presses of Quantitative Easing. It also had the side effect of stealing wealth from all those who'd saved in ISA's and Pensions, and in some part stimulated the buy to let boom.
> 
> I don't remember anyone giving us the 'end of the UK economy' speech back then. But then, it has long been thought that the pound is the most overvalued currency on the world...
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/pound-world-most-overvalued-currency-ubs-2017-11?r=US&IR=T
> 
> There are lots of valid arguments for staying in or leaving the EU, but the banking system ? The ticking time bomb that is Deutschebank - well, let's just say it might best to retire to minimum safe distance before that particular situation come to a head.
> 
> The only value in fiat currencies is that which people believe it has, and when the EU leadership stop admiring the emperors new clothes, they will have to deal with a problem that is all too likely to be beyond them.
> 
> 
> 
> /POLITICSOFF



I'm really not sure what your point is Michael. We will have to deal with the ramifications of whatever happens in the EU Bloc whether we are inside the tent or outside the tent pissing in. As you alluded economics is all about perception and it's simply a fact that the perceived downsides of Brexit have caused a collapse in the value of the GBP against the USD and EUR.

Justified or not we still have to deal with the consequences. The UK economy is going to shrink in the next couple of years and there is little to be done about that at this point. The political ramifications of Brexit are simply going to compound that situation (Scotland, Northern Ireland, Gibraltar, Fishing Quotas etc. etc. etc.). Of course there are serious problems ahead for bloc as a whole, but frankly there always are, and it will have an impact on us whether we are in or out. The consequences of being on the outside are pretty terrible on myriad levels.


----------



## VinRice

Tell me again, what do we win for getting this thread to 40 pages?


----------



## Jaap

VinRice said:


> Tell me again, what do we win for getting this thread to 40 pages?



VIEXIT


----------



## Zedcars

If Spitfire leaves Britain: Sexit.


----------



## Andrew0568

The newest pic they posted on their promo pages looks like a BBC Marconi type A


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Andrew0568 said:


> The newest pic they posted on their promo pages looks like a BBC Marconi type A



/ Thread closed.


----------



## ridgero

„Truly a chapter change“

Ok I‘m very hyped now :D


----------



## idematoa




----------



## erica-grace

idematoa said:


>




_Truly a chapter change in what we do._

Yep. Subscription service, here we come!!!


----------



## ism

Speculating wildly - an all singing all dancing BBC orchestra - distributed free to all school children and TV license payers ... fits with the sense of BBC ultimately recognizing pirate radio as an essential public service, no?

(Of course Tories would probably hate this, so Bounus for that)


----------



## al_net77

Maybe they started to build microphones...


----------



## jamwerks

danbo said:


> Are they, do you have market share numbers? Not being snide but without hard data that's ill defined. VSO is the big brother, EastWest is the venerable choice been there for years with Spitfire as a relatively new comer. I think of them as the Tesla of VI's - big fan base, lots of attention, but the other companies are probably bigger in terms of customer base and revenue.
> 
> Note I have no idea either, just speculating, but since these are all private companies we don't know their relative popularity. My impression is that the big composers buy stuff from all of them, at least as evidenced by their templates.


They have been working on their sampler for a long time and several of their latest libraries run on it.

As for who is the biggest, Eastwest probably isn't even in the top 5 (how many EW libraries have come out in the past year?).


----------



## Wally Garten

Denkii said:


> Step 1: Put it on Spotify.
> Step 2: Done.
> Step 3: No profit.



Hey! How did you get my secret business plan?


----------



## funnybear

Just announced: 

Stormzy collaborator Jules Buckley joins BBC Symphony Orchestra

Could be related to the SA announcement?


----------



## ptram

I'm a bit tired of the stupid joke about subscription. In any case, do you think they will accept monthly payment via PayPal?

Paolo


----------



## Denkii

ptram said:


> I'm a bit tired of the stupid joke about subscription. In any case, do you think they will accept monthly payment via PayPal?
> 
> Paolo


So that you can pay off your debt at a rate of 150 a month instead of having a subscription for 30 bucks?
And by the speed they release new stuff it's easy to upkeep the payment plan...yeah makes sense.

Jokes aside: I'd welcome that too. Not as much as a subscription but still.


----------



## NYC Composer

:::grunts as he pushes the rock uphill to reach page 39:::


----------



## D Halgren

Revolution number 39


----------



## Fleer

Seven hundred ninety nine


----------



## Jack Mills

So they're making a supposed BBC symphony library?


----------



## NoamL

I believe I've guessed what the announcement will be.

REALLY guessed it, not just a hunch.

"All the letters fit in the crossword space," let me put it that way. I could still be wrong.

But I don't want to ruin Spitfire's big day. If I've guessed correctly this is a massive announcement and they deserve to have their fun with it.

So I will just leave these cryptic initials here

*LONDON CALLING = SLO + MWRS*

and that way, if I'm right I can gloat in two days without ruining Spitfire's announcement, and if I'm wrong, please forget I posted this


----------



## Zedcars

NoamL said:


> I believe I've guessed what the announcement will be.
> 
> REALLY guessed it, not just a hunch.
> 
> "All the letters fit in the crossword space," let me put it that way. I could still be wrong.
> 
> But I don't want to ruin Spitfire's big day. If I've guessed correctly this is a massive announcement and they deserve to have their fun with it.
> 
> So I will just leave these cryptic initials here
> 
> *LONDON CALLING = SLO + MWRS*
> 
> and that way, if I'm right I can gloat in two days without ruining Spitfire's announcement, and if I'm wrong, please forget I posted this


Interesting. I think I can guess what the second bit is. Are the second letters of MWRS iiet, or possibly oiet?

Not sure about the SLO. I’m hoping the first word _isn’t_ synthesised. It can’t be Spitfire London Orchestra as we already have LCO so the names would overlap uncomfortably.


----------



## lwhitehead

I’m not exactly sure how the BBC rumour started, but I think Spitfire are using the microphone picture as 'disinformation' to troll users of this board.

BBCSO at Maida Vale sounds kinda cool, but it doesn’t exactly scream Hollywood film score does it? I couldn’t name a single soundtrack that has been recorded there. Also, their main room is way too small to fit this orchestral layout:



zolhof said:


> That's the piece of paper that was in front of the "checklist guy", after some good old cropping:




If this is going to be Spitfire’s new flagship orchestral package, they will want to one-up the combination of AIR Studios with an Isobel Griffiths contracted band (HZ Strings).

And whilst we know the above is a winning formula in terms of sound, there is a London studio even more prestigious than AIR, and a world-renowned orchestra famous for having recorded many iconic scores in their main room.

It seems like Spitfire partnering with these two musical brands, both of which are household names, would meet the criteria of being their biggest announcement to date.

Seems kinda obvious to me. Though I could be getting my hopes up a little too high…


----------



## Alex Fraser

lwhitehead said:


> I’m not exactly sure how the BBC rumour started, but I think Spitfire are using the microphone picture as 'disinformation' to troll users of this board.
> 
> BBCSO at Maida Vale sounds kinda cool, but it doesn’t exactly scream Hollywood film score does it? I couldn’t name a single soundtrack that has been recorded there. Also, their main room is way too small to fit this orchestral layout:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this is going to be Spitfire’s new flagship orchestral package, they will want to one-up the combination of AIR Studios with an Isobel Griffiths contracted band (HZ Strings).
> 
> And whilst we know the above is a winning formula in terms of sound, there is a London studio even more prestigious than AIR, and a world-renowned orchestra famous for having recorded many iconic scores in their main room.
> 
> It seems like Spitfire partnering with these two musical brands, both of which are household names, would meet the criteria of being their biggest announcement to date.
> 
> Seems kinda obvious to me. Though I could be getting my hopes up a little too high…


The Maida Vale rumour gathered steam after the braintrust started googling BBC Maida Vale etc. 

Also, the original splash imagery on the site had the filename “Auntie” so if SF are trolling, it would be an epic effort. 

I’m still trying to work out @NoamL’s riddle whilst chilling with my baby daughter on holiday. Even if we’re way off, this has been fun regardless!


----------



## europa_io

Barbican = London Symphony Orchestra = John Williams









Super Orchestra: The LSO and the Music of Superman


A brief history of the special relationship between John Williams and the London Symphony Orchestra, followed by the full list of musicians who performed on the soundtrack of Superman: The Movie




thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com










London Symphony Orchestra - Happy 40th birthday Star Wars!


The London Symphony Orchestra performs over 120 concerts a year at the Barbican Centre in London and on tour around the world.




lso.co.uk


----------



## Michael Antrum

europa_io said:


> Barbican = London Symphony Orchestra = John Williams



Well it's certainly a more enticing prospect than Symphonic Bagpipes


----------



## rudi

"A gentleman is someone who knows how to play the bagpipes... but doesn't" 

PS I actually like the bagpipes


----------



## Zero&One

lwhitehead said:


> Also, their main room is way too small to fit this orchestral layout:



Not sure about that. 
This from SOS "Studio One is a vast, 756-square-metre room with a seated balcony, and can accommodate an audience of 220 as well as a 100-strong choir and an orchestra of 150 musicians. "


----------



## lwhitehead

James H said:


> Not sure about that.
> This from SOS "Studio One is a vast, 756-square-metre room with a seated balcony, and can accommodate an audience of 220 as well as a 100-strong choir and an orchestra of 150 musicians. "



Interesting! The shape of the room isn't what's on that particular orchestral layout diagram though.

Perhaps in addition to a new, ££££, flagship orchestral package, the keynote will include "one more thing" and Spitfire will also announce a Labs Orchestra. This would help them meet their mission statement of inspiring a new generation of composers.

Christian mentioned in his "World's Biggest Template" vlog that what he and Jake are putting together (for October launch) will be able to scale down to a laptop.

Unlike with the Whitacre choir, where it was easy to make a Labs instrument from the existing recordings, with a full orchestra it might be better to have dedicated recordings rather than restricting articulations/round robins. So that could be what they’ve been working on at Maida Vale. 

The BBC have done an excellent job inspiring young musicians with their _Ten Pieces_ education scheme, so perhaps a Spitfire/BBC partnership could help empower the next generation by providing a full orchestral palette that fledgling composers can open on their Mum’s laptop!


----------



## Parsifal666

P.S. to @givemenoughrope that's easily my favorite album by the Clash.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Labs Orchestra? Game changer for sure. BBC education program to boot? Sounds cool.


----------



## Kurosawa




----------



## ProfoundSilence

strings I'd imagine. 

little room for breathing between longs, mostly staccato and longs with a ton of automation. 

new player strings? start of new orchestral line? or maybe it's not the mockup using the product at all. 

or its sso with the new player??? oh well 24 hours it is


----------



## AndyP

Weatherforecast evaluation module including new graphic ui! 
I've seen this before at a weather station. At least that's what it looks like!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

AndyP said:


> Weatherforecast evaluation module including new graphic ui!
> I've seen this before at a weather station. At least that's what it looks like!


as a Floridian I just have to hope I get more Dorian mode than hurricane this weekend


----------



## ridgero

Looks like a new Brexit coping strategy


----------



## Zero&One

Looks like my heart rate monitor at the SA checkout cart


----------



## lgmcben

Here's hoping they also have something new to announce for beginners as well. Waiting for Berlin Inspire to go on sale. Would love some competition.


----------



## zolhof

I think Christian accidentally let a big spoiler slip... click at your own discretion:



Spoiler










Half-Life 3 confirmed.



My body is ready!


----------



## D Halgren

40 here we go!


----------



## Karma

Well, you guys made it . Thanks for the fun read!


----------



## D Halgren

There's still time for 50, or at least 42


----------



## europa_io

So the trailer music photo suggests strings (seeing as there are col legno, flautando and VC longs) and the absence of breathing gaps.

Maybe it's strings from an LSO library. (Barbican)
Maybe it's a new Player (next gen sampleism comment)
Maybe the new Player has got some exclusive reverbs (the teaser sounds like a reverb channel) - maybe the proprietary, locked down Spitfire Player has persuaded the likes of Air Studios and Abbey Road to allow their acoustics to be sampled for reverb. (the Coles microphone might hint at Abbey Road).
....
....
....


----------



## ed buller

lwhitehead said:


> I’m not exactly sure how the BBC rumour started, but I think Spitfire are using the microphone picture as 'disinformation' to troll users of this board.
> 
> BBCSO at Maida Vale sounds kinda cool, but it doesn’t exactly scream Hollywood film score does it? I couldn’t name a single soundtrack that has been recorded there. Also, their main room is way too small to fit this orchestral layout:




The Big room at Delaware road is massive. My father recorded both his Orchetarl pieces there in the 80's..8 horns in one piece !!






plenty of room.....


----------



## redlester

Kurosawa said:


>




He put the colour version on Twitter


----------



## Michael Antrum

redlester said:


> He put the colour version on Twitter




It looks like a Spitfire Biorhythm Percussion Library, which makes different noises depending on the time of the month ......

Or their first foray into hardware with a midi CC controller interface......

Or.....

Oh I give up.


----------



## idematoa

MPE Compatiblity ?


----------



## josephspirits

There was a lot of talk in the vlogs about creating a massive template that could be versatile enough for lots of people to use. The idea of a Labs Orchestra could tie into this. Spitfire releasing a massive free orchestral labs library could also have the potential to change the world of sampling, as the marketing suggests.

But I imagine there has to be something for sale, so maybe that's only part of it.


----------



## NoamL

zolhof said:


> That's the piece of paper that was in front of the "checklist guy", after some good old cropping:



The roster appears to include 16 Firsts / 14 Seconds / 12 Violas / 10 Cellos / 8 Basses in traditional left-to-right seating.

Which not coincidentally, is *exactly* the same proportions as Spitfire Symphonic Strings (formerly Mural). 

Also looks like 12 winds in the middle. On the left, 4 horns on the right 3 trumpets and then behind them 3 trombones, 1 tuba. These are different proportions from Spitfire Symphonic Brass - closer to traditional symphonic/Hollywood. Plus timp, harp, percussion, and perhaps a celeste?

So yeah, with this in the wild I'd say that *S*pitfire *L*ondon *O*rchestra is now practically public knowledge. But my guess of "MWRS" remains just a guess....


----------



## NoamL

Zedcars said:


> Interesting. I think I can guess what the second bit is. Are the second letters of MWRS iiet, or possibly oiet?



the e is correct, others are wrong


----------



## DerGeist

redlester said:


> He put the colour version on Twitter



Looks to be in D minor, the saddest of all keys. Nigel Tufnel Composers Toolkit confirmed. Don't even look at it.


----------



## cqd

London Symphony Orchestra Mr. Williams Recording Suite..


----------



## PaulieDC

DerGeist said:


> Looks to be in D minor, the saddest of all keys. Nigel Tufnel Composers Toolkit confirmed. Don't even look at it.


The boxed set comes with a Deli tray and FINALLY... large bread. Let's face it, folding is just too difficult. And of course all output knobs on the UI go to 11. No wait, 13. Forgot about inflation and exchange rate.


----------



## Zedcars

NoamL said:


> the e is correct, others are wrong


It's not "Modelled (or mixed) with real strings" then? I give up...


----------



## Zedcars

From the photo: It says "Col Leg", "VC Longs" (could be wrong) and "[something] Flautando" on the MIDI part headers.

EDIT: Sorry, I missed that’s already been said above!


----------



## ptram

Isn't tomorrow in the evening, around dinner time, the Global Strike of the internet?


----------



## PaulieDC

Hmmmm, back on Aug 9th I was guessing that it's a new library of the entire LSO in their hall (and later added that JW would conduct it which is probably not realistic)… so I just looked at the Audio Event page on Spitfire's site and noticed that they will broadcasting from Barbican Centre. Coincidence? My money is still on a fully and massively sampled LSO and I'm not ruling out JW's involvement.

Maybe MWRS is an acronym for the last names of 4 prominent people involved in the project? Yeah, crazy wild guess, although Williams is letter #2, lol.

Maybe I'd better get back to work so I don't get fired and then can't afford whatever it is they are revealing tomorrow.


----------



## rudi

DerGeist said:


> Looks to be in D minor, the saddest of all keys. Nigel Tufnel Composers Toolkit confirmed. Don't even look at it.


Yes, but will it go to 11?


----------



## stonzthro

I hope it is the LSO!


----------



## DerGeist

PaulieDC said:


> Hmmmm, back on Aug 9th I was guessing that it's a new library of the entire LSO in their hall (and later added that JW would conduct it which is probably not realistic)… so I just looked at the Audio Event page on Spitfire's site and noticed that they will broadcasting from Barbican Centre. Coincidence? My money is still on a fully and massively sampled LSO and I'm not ruling out JW's involvement.
> 
> Maybe MWRS is an acronym for the last names of 4 prominent people involved in the project? Yeah, crazy wild guess, although Williams is letter #2, lol.
> 
> Maybe I'd better get back to work so I don't get fired and then can't afford whatever it is they are revealing tomorrow.



M - Chuck Mangione
W - John Williams
R - Raffi
S - Slayer


----------



## jaketanner

muk said:


> Let's have another info recap in an otherwise completely useless thread, shall we?
> 
> 
> 'This is London calling', the microphone in the background picture, and 'auntiemicrophone' all clearly point to the BBC.
> In January 2018 Spitfire Audio had a recording session with the BBC Symphony Orchestra cello section at Maida Vale.
> Mr. Henson mentioned 'sul tasto' when talking about the upcoming release. So clearly it involves strings.
> Mr. Henson called it their most ambitious project to date.
> 
> From all these facts it is reasonable to expect a library with BBC Symphony Orchestra strings, and probably the other sections as well, recorded at Maida Vale. As it is their most ambitious project yet, either the library/libraries with the BBC SO will surpass their current line of symphonic libraries in scale and scope, and/or the collaboration with the BBC goes even further than the recordings with the BBC SO.


I also believe it's some kind of library or even product...because Christian mentions in one video that they need to make sure the cost is correct before launch. 

Seemingly it's a string library..I hope it's NOT all Sul taste, although that sound is quite nice, I couldn't nor wouldn't need an entire library that focuses on this.


----------



## jaketanner

lwhitehead said:


> I’m not exactly sure how the BBC rumour started, but I think Spitfire are using the microphone picture as 'disinformation' to troll users of this board.
> 
> BBCSO at Maida Vale sounds kinda cool, but it doesn’t exactly scream Hollywood film score does it? I couldn’t name a single soundtrack that has been recorded there. Also, their main room is way too small to fit this orchestral layout:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this is going to be Spitfire’s new flagship orchestral package, they will want to one-up the combination of AIR Studios with an Isobel Griffiths contracted band (HZ Strings).
> 
> And whilst we know the above is a winning formula in terms of sound, there is a London studio even more prestigious than AIR, and a world-renowned orchestra famous for having recorded many iconic scores in their main room.
> 
> It seems like Spitfire partnering with these two musical brands, both of which are household names, would meet the criteria of being their biggest announcement to date.
> 
> Seems kinda obvious to me. Though I could be getting my hopes up a little too high…


I think something like this would take years to complete..how can they keep it such a secret without anyone leaking this info?


----------



## jaketanner

I am also wondering how much $$ am I gonna need to have on my debit card tomorrow.. LOL


----------



## Mornats

Well of it's not something good for me (an amateur bumbling hobbyist) I hope it's something amazing for the rest of you guys.


----------



## Will Blackburn

Really hoping it's LSO. I'll live on bread and water for the next few months if needs be. Say it be so Spitfire


----------



## Zedcars

I mean, there’s been too many hints and leaked info for it to be anything other than the BBCSO at Maida Vale at this point. If that’s wrong then I’ll eat my hat. But, like I said, I don’t think that’s the complete picture.

Less than 22 hours to go...


----------



## Alex Fraser

NoamL said:


> So yeah, with this in the wild I'd say that *S*pitfire *L*ondon *O*rchestra is now practically public knowledge. But my guess of "MWRS" remains just a guess....


If this is true, is there a forum trophy for guessing correctly? I'll graciously accept a free copy of the library if I'm correct.




__





Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


John Williams Composer Toolkit plz :) And what would that contain? An extremely playable sampled version of every section? :grin:




vi-control.net


----------



## Mark Schmieder

I hearby declare that this thread must have as many pages as the USA has had presidents. We're almost there!


----------



## ptram

jaketanner said:


> how can they keep it such a secret without anyone leaking this info?


I think it's called polonium.

Paolo


----------



## Zedcars

NoamL said:


> the e is correct, others are wrong


Hmmm, could it be Meatballs, Wavetable, Reatime, Synthesis? What do I win?


----------



## Mark Schmieder

I must say, it's very brave of Spitfire to set us all up for such a potential disappointment. Isn't is usually better to under-promise and over-deliver?


----------



## Zedcars

Mark Schmieder said:


> I must say, it's very brave of Spitfire to set us all up for such a potential disappointment. Isn't is usually better to under-promise and over-deliver?


Exactly what I say to my wife before sex. (Not the Spitfire bit though!)


----------



## Michael Antrum

Zedcars said:


> Exactly what I say to my wife before sex. (Not the Spitfire bit though!)



I have evidently led a sheltered life, and I hesitate to ask for clarification......


----------



## europa_io

Where has this SLO MWRS magicked from?


----------



## Mark Schmieder

It stands for Symbionese Liberation Organisation's Micro-Wave Resistance Shield.


----------



## justthere

VinRice said:


> Well, I said less sensitive, not insensitive and I don't know what to tell you - it just happens to be a fact.



This is absolutely fascinating to me. I'd love to read some background on this - can you give me some citations?


----------



## europa_io

Mesh Waveguide Reverb Simulator?
Mesh/modelled Waveguide Real-time Synthesis?
Musical Widget for Rescuing Samples?


----------



## Loïc D

ModWheel Realistic Sustain

Now that the Benny Hill Toolkit trail is becoming cold, I get serious. I mean it.


----------



## Iskra

Music Welfare, Recreation & Services?
Make a Wonky Riff, Siri?
Maybe We Ruined Surprise?


----------



## al_net77

Mooing, Whistles and Rants: Synthesizer?
Moog Wannabe Retro Synth?


----------



## Denkii

DerGeist said:


> M - Chuck Mangione
> W - John Williams
> R - Raffi
> S - Slayer


I died a little


----------



## NoamL

europa_io said:


> Where has this SLO MWRS magicked from?



it's just my guess as to what tomorrow is all about and I don't want to say it in case I'm right and it spoils their surprise


----------



## PaulBrimstone

NoamL said:


> it's just my guess as to what tomorrow is all about and I don't want to say it in case I'm right and it spoils their surprise


@NoamL Second letters O O E Y, by any chance?


----------



## Saxer

...whatever will be will be...


----------



## CT

Saxer said:


> ...whatever will be will be...



Yes. But first we'll speculate for about 50 pages.


----------



## Denkii

Jesus reloaded...reloaded.


----------



## Chungus

A thought I had: If this does end up being a library, think it'll be most cost efficient to snatch it up during the intro sale, or wait for a BF sale? Would it even be included in the latter, being newly released?


----------



## MaxOctane

Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com





We all think it's this, right?


----------



## lumcas

Saxer said:


> ...whatever will be will be...



This is a pretty sophisticated and in-depth insight into what might actually happen. Thanks! BTW, we should lock the thread, it's 42 now.


----------



## STec

It’s the Jeremy Soule Composer Toolkit. You heard it first.


----------



## Tice

STec said:


> It’s the Jeremy Soule Composer Toolkit. You heard it first.


That would be the unluckiest timing in their careers.


----------



## Mucusman

Chungus said:


> If this does end up being a library, think it'll be most cost efficient to snatch it up during the intro sale, or wait for a BF sale? Would it even be included in the latter, being newly released?



Spitfire typically releases a product at 25% off list. Then, usually during the next sale, you'll be able to pick it up for 30% off. Sometimes, a but further down the road, you can eventually purchase it for 40% off. So, no, unless you end up using it to make money immediately (that's not my world), it's almost always better to wait for a better sale with Spitfire than the initial release promotion.

So if your primary goal is "most cost efficient," wait. Another reason to wait: let the dust settle on the opinion of how good it is... or not... at least for _you _(HZ Strings comes to mind here).


----------



## CT

It kind of bugs me that, like I said earlier in the thread, I'm more dreading this as something incredible that I won't be able to afford to be a part of, than I am looking forward to it....


----------



## artomatic

Oh boy, a big announcement means a big orchestra and a big chunk of change!
Hoping it's LSO!


----------



## Rey

Mucusman said:


> Spitfire typically releases a product at 25% off list. Then, usually during the next sale, you'll be able to pick it up for 30% off. Sometimes, a but further down the road, you can eventually purchase it for 40% off. So, no, unless you end up using it to make money immediately (that's not my world), it's almost always better to wait for a better sale with Spitfire than the initial release promotion.
> 
> So if your primary goal is "most cost efficient," wait. Another reason to wait: let the dust settle on the opinion of how good it is... or not... at least for _you _(HZ Strings comes to mind here).



HZ Strings is A awesome realistic strings. I have it and bought it during intro. The price during sale vs intro was almost, most of the time the same with only probably $50 saving.It is now my primary go to strings replacing Spitfire Chamber Strings. lets see if BBC or LSO would prove to be better.

The only good deal I got was Eric Whitacre Choir that went to 40% sale last year and I snatched that. That is only because I missed the intro price and product introduction and was not interested much in choir, but after listening and viewing the walkthrough, totally mind blown.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo




----------



## Fleer

Latka!


----------



## constaneum

Today's the day ! =D Excited to know what's gonna be announced.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

constaneum said:


> Today's the day ! =D Excited to know what's gonna be announced.


today's the day I find out how much $$$ I saved by winning the SFA everything package from the survey, because my answers will be the key in their financial success from the moment I sent it in


----------



## Alex Fraser

constaneum said:


> Today's the day ! =D Excited to know what's gonna be announced.


Even if I dislike the reveal, I just want it over. Anything to hush the evil fairies in my head who whisper “London is caaaallling” over and over.


----------



## LudovicVDP

Will the event really happen if we don't get to 50 pages??


(This thread has been my morning read lately. I'm gonna miss it when it stops )


----------



## Chungus

Mucusman said:


> Spitfire typically releases a product at 25% off list. Then, usually during the next sale, you'll be able to pick it up for 30% off. Sometimes, a but further down the road, you can eventually purchase it for 40% off. So, no, unless you end up using it to make money immediately (that's not my world), it's almost always better to wait for a better sale with Spitfire than the initial release promotion.
> 
> So if your primary goal is "most cost efficient," wait. Another reason to wait: let the dust settle on the opinion of how good it is... or not... at least for _you _(HZ Strings comes to mind here).


Right on.



LudovicVDP said:


> Will the event really happen if we don't get to 50 pages??
> 
> 
> (This thread has been my morning read lately. I'm gonna miss it when it stops )


Lol. Same here.


----------



## Zero&One

Alex Fraser said:


> Even if I dislike the reveal, I just want it over. Anything to hush the evil fairies in my head who whisper “London is caaaallling” over and over.



Me too, I have a sinking feeling I'm going to really like it though. Just hoping it's not too expensive and weighs in under 100 exabytes for my poor download pipe


----------



## NYC Composer

(43)


----------



## Alex Fraser

James H said:


> Me too, I have a sinking feeling I'm going to really like it though. Just hoping it's not too expensive and weighs in under 100 exabytes for my poor download pipe


I'd probably make peace with yourself now about the incoming price..


----------



## redlester

So the Barbican event begins at 15.30 BST, and the live announcement comes at 19.00? Are they going to keep the people at the event in the dark for all that time (in which case why have the event), or are they going to confiscate mobile devices on entry? Am a bit confused about those timings.

(Maybe it's going to take 4 hours for Paul to express how excited he is?)


----------



## Denkii

Alex Fraser said:


> I'd probably make peace with yourself now about the incoming price..


What is your guess?
More than $1000?


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Denkii said:


> What is your guess?
> More than $1000?


I'm guessing 799 with an intro of 599

they just released symphonic organ for like 250$ without much of any lead up. would be odd for them to release a cheap product immediately after


----------



## Denkii

I'm still hooked on 999,- with some sort of pro running for 1399,-.
Intro 749,- and 999,- respectively.

I'd imagine if it's their biggest whatever ever, it'll at least match SSO's price. Being supposedly bigger potentially 'legitimates' it being even more expensive though.


----------



## AndyP




----------



## Denkii

@AndyP: you're at least 42 pages late for that


----------



## Normqn

Denkii said:


> I'm still hooked on 999,- with some sort of pro running for 1399,-.
> Intro 749,- and 999,- respectively.
> 
> I'd imagine if it's their biggest whatever ever, it'll at least match SSO's price. Being supposedly bigger potentially 'legitimates' it being even more expensive though.



Or maybe they find a way to drastically down the price by some new groundbreaking way of sampling things ? And this, is part of this big event and could be a gamechanger is the industry ?
This is why they tease with a microphone and London Calling is just about the fact that SA is british

In any case, this was a great thread
I enjoyed following the hype with everyone here


----------



## Alex Fraser

Denkii said:


> What is your guess?
> More than $1000?


Depends - are we talking strings only? £699. CH mentioned on his blog that the incoming release "won't be for everyone" which probably means either bagpipes or an eye watering price.

Either that, or a *£19.99 a month subscription!!!*


----------



## Zedcars

Christmas presents are always more exciting _before _they’ve been opened.


----------



## Zero&One

Pro version is 1 kidney
Barbican Centre folks think they are watching a string quartet for the first 3 hrs... wrong! Snip snip!


----------



## CT




----------



## mikeh-375

LudovicVDP said:


> Will the event really happen if we don't get to 50 pages??
> 
> 
> (This thread has been my morning read lately. I'm gonna miss it when it stops )



We could all post the word 'wibble' repeatedly and get to 100 pages within the hour...easily....a new record thread length.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

mikeh-375 said:


> We could all post the word 'wibble' repeatedly and get to 100 pages within the hour...easily....a new record thread length.


but that would be a shallow victory wouldn't it? might as well type in power overwhelming or pop in your game shark


----------



## Mornats

Alex Fraser said:


> Depends - are we talking strings only? £699. CH mentioned on his blog that the incoming release "won't be for everyone" which probably means either bagpipes or an eye watering price.
> 
> Either that, or a *£19.99 a month subscription!!!*



You mean eye-watering bagpipes.


----------



## CT

Zoot_Rollo said:


>



What the heck is this from? It's familiar but I just can't place it.

EDIT: I found it, but have absolutely no idea why I thought it was familiar. Weird!


----------



## rottoy

I've found another teaser shot on the parking lot outside the Barbican.
Paul seems very excited here.


----------



## borisb2

havent checked this thread over the last days ..

901 posts, huh? ... before any event .. based on a black squared gif

.. unimaginable how this thread will explode when there actually were some news


----------



## lgmcben

Did they announce anywhere how long the keynote is gonna take? Can't find it on their facebook page.


----------



## mikeh-375

Ladies and gentlemen of the British Isles, our Parliament is about to be prorogued over all this speculation. Boris is off to see the Queen to see if she knows anything about this "London Calling" malarkey. Gawd help us all and Gawd bless her - perhaps she'll tell BoJo to f-off.


----------



## Francis Bourre

Don't forget it won't be released before mid October. This thread has time to grow...


----------



## rudi

rottoy said:


> I've found another teaser shot on the parking lot outside the Barbican.
> Paul seems very excited here.



My life feels complete now!!!


----------



## AndyP

rottoy said:


> I've found another teaser shot on the parking lot outside the Barbican.
> Paul seems very excited here.



Oh, a Scotsman on a horse (a Scottish horse) ...


----------



## europa_io

Ooh. Not in the Barbican main hall but in the cinema for a tech rehearsal. Reckon not an LSO library then. Reckon it’s software to use existing samples in a much more expressive and musical way.


----------



## Adam Takacs

I don't know if there is a connection but...


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

I remember someone of the spitfire Team to be working on a preamp taht Paul said would be tailored especially to the need of sampling in a Video they published some years ago. Are they going to indroduce audio Hardware and have us speculate about libraries and stuff just as a side product of their own range of recording Equipment?
Don't think so, but that would be a new chapter and not interesting for everyone


----------



## NYC Composer

44


----------



## danbo

jamwerks said:


> As for who is the biggest, Eastwest probably isn't even in the top 5 (how many EW libraries have come out in the past year?).



Pop Brass, Voices of Opera ... they release a new library about once a year maybe. How many vocal libraries does Spitfire have? Ethnic, Rock, Pop, Choir, Reverbs, custom players? EW has been all over that.


----------



## danbo

I have a feeling I'm going to be underwhelmed, thinking they teased this too heavily

The 'biggest announcement in their history' != 'biggest announcement in sampling history'


----------



## CT

danbo said:


> I have a feeling I'm going to be underwhelmed, thinking they teased this too heavily
> 
> The 'biggest announcement in their history' != 'biggest announcement in sampling history'



Frankly, the way you've been posting in this thread makes being underwhelmed seem absolutely inevitable for you.


----------



## NYC Composer

Now now, there's no need for pessimism.

Or optimism.

You have to do a fearless personal inventory. Do you see:

1. The glass as half full
2. The glass as half empty, or..
3. are you just grateful to have a glass and some water in case you're thirsty?

Ponder all of this while you wait. We're heading for 45, on our way to 50+.


----------



## redlester

AndyP said:


> Oh, a Scotsman on a horse (a Scottish horse) ...



Great Monty Python reference!

Is that what Christian gets up to in Edinburgh? He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy.


----------



## CT

NYC Composer said:


> Now now, there's no need for pessimism.
> 
> Or optimism.
> 
> You have to do a fearless personal inventory. Do you see:
> 
> 1. The glass as half full
> 2. The glass as half empty, or..
> 3. are you just grateful to have a glass and some water in case you're thirsty?
> 
> Ponder all of this while you wait. We're heading for 45, on our way to 50+.



My glass is always half full. Of absinthe, preferably.


----------



## Digivolt

I think it's going to be an announcement of quite a few things with the BBC library just being the flagship for them


----------



## NoamL

I got a piece of info that made my guess seem less likely... so perhaps I'm wrong after all... only one way to find out!


----------



## Zedcars

Have they done product announcement keynotes before? Just wondering what to expect in terms of format, speakers, live music, select press and VIP in attendance? I’ve really only experience of watching Apple keynotes since Steve Jobs’ second coming, but I don’t know if this will have any similarities in presentation style or be very different.


----------



## danbo

miket said:


> Frankly, the way you've been posting in this thread makes being underwhelmed seem absolutely inevitable for you.


That was nice, I don’t see the folks who are gushing with excitement getting called out.


----------



## CT

danbo said:


> That was nice, I don’t see the folks who are gushing with excitement getting called out.



I would think it's less in human nature to decry positivity than negativity.


----------



## Zedcars

*nervously awaits call out for being too excited


----------



## Fleer

Will we get to 1000 posts before we know?


----------



## Zedcars

Fleer said:


> Will we get to 1000 posts before we know?


Was just thinking the same (and excuse to add one more...  )


----------



## Fleer

Well, you did take us to page 45


----------



## Zero&One

Zedcars said:


> *nervously awaits call out for being too excited



Meh. You made me pinch-zoom... happy people


----------



## Zedcars

James H said:


> Meh. You made me pinch-zoom... happy people


Sorry about that.


----------



## CT

Who else plans to watch the livestream draped in a Union Jack, blasting Jerusalem?


----------



## Iskra

danbo said:


> I have a feeling I'm going to be underwhelmed


Don't feel bad, as this forum goes, even if Spitfire announces this evening that their entire catalogue is going to be available to everyone for free, there will be posts over here stating that they're underwhelmed.


----------



## Fleer

Not mine.


----------



## Zedcars

miket said:


> Who else plans to watch the livestream draped in a Union Jack, blasting Jerusalem?


I’m just going to watch it eating popcorn in my underpants.


----------



## CT

Zedcars said:


> I’m just going to watch it eating popcorn in my underpants.



Rule Britannia!


----------



## VinRice

I'm in the very happy position of having no money at the moment so I can watch this all unfold in a calm and relaxed state without the danger of 'sample library intro discount fever' taking hold, (hmm, unless...)


----------



## NoamL

miket said:


> Who else plans to watch the livestream draped in a Union Jack, blasting Jerusalem?


----------



## VinRice

Zedcars said:


> I’m just going to watch it eating popcorn in my underpants.



You keep popcorn in your underpants?!!


----------



## Zedcars

VinRice said:


> You keep popcorn in your underpants?!!


Best place for it I find. Ain’t no-one on earth gonna attempt to steal it!


----------



## lgmcben

Hoping for something in direct competition with Berlin Inspire. Spitfire still have none as far as I'm aware.


----------



## NYC Composer

Iskra said:


> Don't feel bad, as this forum goes, even if Spitfire announces this evening that their entire catalogue is going to be available to everyone for free, there will be posts over here stating that they're underwhelmed.


Ummm. no. There won't.


----------



## Michel Simons

VinRice said:


> You keep popcorn in your underpants?!!



Maybe "eating popcorn" is a euphemism for something naughty?


----------



## Iskra

michelsimons said:


> Maybe "eating popcorn" is a euphemism for something naughty?



Yeah, I actually misred it as 'eating porncop'
go imagine


----------



## Michael Antrum

My hotel has a 55” LED screen all wired up to YouTube. So a quick scoff in the restaurant, and I’ll be watching this in bed, but not in a racy kind of way...

However I’m a bit scared to ask for an extra pillow.....


----------



## rudi

NoamL said:


>



Ah, the sound of massed plastic buckets being struck in unison!!! That's the library we need


----------



## artomatic

GAS in full effect real soon!


----------



## Zoot_Rollo




----------



## AndyP

Zedcars said:


> Best place for it I find. Ain’t no-one on earth gonna attempt to steal it!


Might have a certain flavor ...


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

Zedcars said:


> Best place for it I find. Ain’t no-one on earth gonna attempt to steal it!



too young to remember the movie date technique

Popcorn Surprise

?


----------



## idematoa




----------



## Zedcars

Zoot_Rollo said:


> too young to remember the movie date technique
> 
> Popcorn Surprise
> 
> ?


I’d not heard of it, but what I saw when I Googled will haunt me for the rest of my days!


----------



## idematoa

A little stressed ?


----------



## idematoa




----------



## PaulieDC

What slackers we are... couldn't hit 50 pages.


----------



## NoamL

here we go....


----------



## PaulieDC




----------



## Zedcars

He is very nervous isn't he? I don't blame him, it must be very very hard to present at that level broadcasting over the internet. Props to them both.


----------



## ism

Olafur reference ... promising ...


----------



## LinusW

*BBC Symphony Orchestra!*


----------



## Zero&One

we were right guys


----------



## CT

There you have it. Let's see some details.


----------



## PaulieDC

WELP! I concede... I was sold on LSO. But that's OK, this is pretty huge!


----------



## Zedcars

I'm relieved I don't have to eat my hat!

BBC SO it is - inside their own plugin.


----------



## PaulieDC

PaulieDC said:


> WELP! I concede... I was sold on LSO. But that's OK, this is pretty huge!


Yes, that was an understatement.


----------



## amorphosynthesis

LinusW said:


> BBC Symphony Orchestra!


it will cost both arms and both legs i presume


----------



## NoamL

So far the most interesting thing to me is the screenshot that shows BBC Symphony Orchestra as its own standalone plugin. That goes with my guess.... or at least it's compatible with my guess...


----------



## NoamL

the SLO part of my guess was Spitfire London Orchestra as the product name, interesting that they decided to use BBC branding instead.


----------



## I like music

amorphosynthesis said:


> it will cost both arms and both legs i presume



I pay the license fee. Can I get a discount?!?!? No, didn't think so.


----------



## husselblum

Its starting to sound like it'll be free, labs style! 
(Here's hoping)


----------



## Diablo IV

BBC SO, not bad, sounds good in the video.


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

I'm hoping this is more technically advanced than the other spitfire libraries - not just the old keyswitch, velocity 'dumb' implementation. A bit of innovation and intuitiveness...


----------



## j_kranz

I was hoping for BBE Symphonic Orchestra... run through a Sonic Maximizer


----------



## NoamL

60 strings, string first chairs, woodwind solos & ens, brass solos + ens, "massive perc section."


----------



## AdamKmusic

im gonna bet this will be like £700/800


----------



## NoamL

80 channels of mics?!?!? that is starting to be REALLY comaptible with my guess....


----------



## Diablo IV

I bet it will be 1500 bucks intro price  at least.


----------



## danbo

There you go. BBC orch is cool but doesn’t add much value of itself (it’s samples not a performance), but best part is they recorded solo instruments in addition to ensemble. All orchestral libraries should do this.


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

I reckon either free, or free to educational establishments maybe. Some sense of 'this is for everyone' in the buildup which implies maaaaaybe it'll be a special price point.


----------



## NoamL

bleed mics


----------



## Zedcars

Spill recorded too. Interesting.


----------



## NoamL

BLANEY DEMO


----------



## PaulieDC

Diablo3 said:


> I bet it will be 1500 bucks intro price  at least.


You know it. Look what was invested to make this. I doubt it'll be 50% off on Black Friday.


----------



## PaulieDC

husselblum said:


> Its starting to sound like it'll be free, labs style!
> (Here's hoping)


Not possible, think about how much was invested to get this massive project completed.


----------



## ism

So references to labs, learning and collaboration .... suggests entry level ... also 80 mics, one plugin to rule them all ... not so entry level ...


----------



## NoamL

The most interesting part about this Blaney Demo is that apparently the entire orchestra is close to ready to sell? Woodwinds are there, brass, perc etc.


----------



## Zero&One

sounds... NICE


----------



## rottoy

Damn it, Andy. You really want me to declare bankruptcy, don't you?


----------



## Zedcars




----------



## CT

Andy freaking Blaney.


----------



## redlester




----------



## Lionel Schmitt

BLOODY HELL!! This Andy Blaney demos is incredible!! And the library sounds so fantastic!! Yeeeez!


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

at least they use Reaper with a Logic theme.


----------



## PaulieDC

Wow, if the panning and separation is straight out of the box in Blaney's demo, that's huge. And I keep thinking I'm listening to a stereo recording of a real orchestra. Which it IS, but you know what I mean. This is nuts.

If starting discounted price is $1200 or under, I'm in.


----------



## Zedcars

Jaw, say hello to floor!


----------



## I like music

That Blaney guy could make my kid's toy keyboard sound like a real orchestra. Don't listen to the demo, or it'll cost you a lot of money. You can't do what he can do.

Stop reaching for your wallet. I can see you.

Fucking put it down!


----------



## NoamL

brilliant cue from Blaney.


----------



## Zedcars

TCMQL1 said:


> Are the Violins A Violins B ect divisi sections?


Not sure.


----------



## husselblum

PaulieDC said:


> Not possible, think about how much was invested to get this massive project completed.



Maybe they'll sale it for 100 bucks and the whole worlds gonna buy it and they'll make a shitload of money. Just like Radiohead did with the "In Rainbows" pay-what-you-want thingie....

I know...


----------



## Theodor Andrews

Was hoping for something different. Sure this is a great library...but all the hype... Mh.


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

I hope there's some Adventure Strings/Performance Samples style playable patches... Not just the old standard stuff


----------



## NoamL

1.4 terabytes of uncompressed samples, with a custom audio compression algo to bring it down to 600gb

MSRP 899 pounds 999 in EUR/USD


----------



## NoamL

679 pounds 749 EUR/USD on preorder


----------



## AdamKmusic

£899 pwoar


----------



## ism

a million samples, 1400Gb ... not so entry level is would seem ...


----------



## CT

So... less than the SSO bundle? Ok, that's what makes this such a big announcement. Holy crap!


----------



## Zedcars




----------



## Denkii

I was dead on with the prices except for there is no pro.
What do I win?


----------



## Manaberry

SSO PRO where it is?


----------



## PaulieDC

Holy Moly, $749 USD for the entire Orchestra? #NOBRAINER


----------



## Zedcars

Great new about the templates, but slightly worried they will be Logic only. No love for Cubase et al?


----------



## PaulieDC

EWHO Diamond for sale!


----------



## CT

PaulieDC said:


> Holy Moly, $749 USD for the entire Orchestra? #NOBRAINER



Yeah, tell me about it. Insanely fair for 1.5 TB of the BBC Symphony.


----------



## Manaberry

Ok so. It's finished.


----------



## prodigalson

Instant buy. $749 comes to less than $200 per section. Insane.


----------



## Zedcars

Ahaha...did you hear CH at the very end? He dropped an f bomb just before they cut the feed!


----------



## VinRice

"Sorry for all my fuck-ups..."


----------



## MaxOctane

I like music said:


> That Blaney guy could make my kid's toy keyboard sound like a real orchestra. Don't listen to the demo, or it'll cost you a lot of money. You can't do what he can do.



Truth. His Sacconi quartet is amazing. And, unachievable for the rest of us.


----------



## Lee Blaske

Spitfire Audio knocks the ball out of the park! 

I wouldn't want to be their competition, today.


----------



## LinusW

Zedcars said:


> Great new about the templates, but slightly worried they will be Logic only. No love for Cubase et al?


Expect the community to be working on templates for every DAW. They mention Logic because they are Logic users and work with Apple on optimization.


----------



## Zero&One

Zedcars said:


> Ahaha...did you hear CH at the very end? He dropped an f bomb just before they cut the feed!



Sooo funny


----------



## NoamL

imagine going back to 2007 and telling Old You that one day you could buy deep-sampled orchestral samples for about $1.66 per COMPRESSED GIGABYTE of samples.


----------



## VinRice

Sounds great, good price. DAMMIT!


----------



## akvalley

And just like that, the website crashed


----------



## Jeremy Gillam

Any idea if you'll be able to route discreet mic positions to separate audio outputs from the sampler? The lack of this feature is unfortunate in the HZ Strings plugin.


----------



## Loïc D

That demo of Andy Blaney is mental.
Still, no mention of power legato, lol.


----------



## Lee Blaske

VinRice said:


> "Sorry for all my fuck-ups..."



Christian should have ended with "There, that oughta hold the little bastards!"


----------



## reutunes

Let the badger-baiting commence. Worth remembering that pre-order pricing extends BEYOND the release day. So you can wait and see what all the fuss is about before committing. Classy.


----------



## Dr.Quest

TCMQL1 said:


> Are the Violins A Violins B ect divisi sections?


What are ect divisi?


----------



## rottoy

Dr.Quest said:


> What are ect divisi?


Ectoplasmic Divisi? Ghost notes abound?


----------



## Lee Blaske

LinusW said:


> Expect the community to be working on templates for every DAW. They mention Logic because they are Logic users and work with Apple on optimization.



Sounds like Logic developers will be collaborating, though. That's an advantage. I think SA is now big enough to have Apple's ear. They're pretty big on Logic (with good reason - Logic Pro is fantastic).


----------



## Garry

Watched the big demo - blown away, incredibly excited, perhaps my first pre-order ever!

Tentatively logged on to VI-C, hoping not to have my enthusiasm drained by the nay-sayers, and...

Wow! Everyone agrees, this orchestra for this price for this depth of sampling is just incredible!! We have one happy, united, excited community!!

Bring on Brexit - we vote Remainers can deal with anything now!! We're British and proud!


----------



## Michael Antrum

Well colour me surprised. Especially since the SSO update is also slated for this year. Unless it’s been shelved.....

Mind you it may well have been one of those opportunities that comes along when you least expect and you have to grab it with both hands. Demo sounded stunning on the hotel TV.

I’m going to be very interested in what the early adopters make of this.

Funny thing was that in the recent Spitfire survey I suggested they should build a few templates for their libraries.

Great guess about Maida Vale and the BBC.


----------



## CT

So, N is finally here.


----------



## tomosane

1400GB compressed to 600GB, if I understood correctly, sounds like a pretty big deal in fact, if they can also use this technology going forward. Some people here were expecting something noteworthy in the tech side of things, maybe this is it?


----------



## NoamL

*my guess was wrong btw.* My guess was *S*pitfire *L*ondon *O*rchestra + *M*ark *W*herry's *R*emotecontrol *S*ampler.

As I figured, if they've already recorded an orchestra, already collaborated with HZ on HZ01 and HZS (and Bleeding Fingers' orchestral swarm lib) what is there left that could be the biggest thing yet for them? Licensing or adapting HZ's sampler to be multiplatform.I guess the Spitfire guys think collaborating with the Beeb is a bigger accomplishment than collaborating with :dodgy:. Let's agree to disagree on that one Christian!

Anyway the orchestra sounds very nice, looking forward to walkthroughs of individual sections. And the price is really excellent.


----------



## Ran Zhou

Can SF provide service on replacing :dodgy:strings to this?


----------



## BassClef

...good thing I have 400Mbps download speed!


----------



## Saxer

Preorder is 0,000479 € per sample. I think that's ok


----------



## prodigalson

NoamL said:


> I guess the Spitfire guys think collaborating with the Beeb is a bigger accomplishment than collaborating with :dodgy:.



It is if you're British


----------



## Zedcars

Pre-ordered.


----------



## richhickey

RIP Studio series. _This_ room sounds great.


----------



## Rey

miket said:


> So, N is finally here.


N keynote is next month


----------



## Raphioli

That demo by Andy Blaney sounded sooo good!
But then again, Andy Blaney makes anything sound incredible.

I'd really like to listen to the legatos exposed, because I wasn't impressed with the legatos in HZ Strings.


----------



## MartinH.

Wow, this looks pretty cool! A new player/plugin is not something I'd impulsively jump on before waiting how happy people are with it etc., but I'm definitely more interested in this than anything else they ever made. Price sounds very fair too. I could see myself buying this one day instead of the cinematic studio series. 

Well done Spitfire!


----------



## Zedcars

With the profits from this, will they now buy Maida Vale Studios to prevent it being knocked down? I mean, they may want to record other stuff there in the future to integrate it with this new library.


----------



## Zero&One

Zedcars said:


> Pre-ordered.



Did you SSD also?


----------



## Rey

prodigalson said:


> Instant buy. $749 comes to less than $200 per section. Insane.


It would awesome if they sell sections separately


----------



## CT

richhickey said:


> RIP Studio series. _This_ room sounds great.



Agreed. I wanted to believe in the Studio series, but this is clearly where it's at.

It's so cool to see players in the session photos that I recognize from this amazing performance....


----------



## Digivolt

Sounds good, price is fair considering the size & quality, think it was overhyped though, it's just another sample library and I don't see how it changes anything in the sampling landscape like Christian was hinting at before the announcement.

I was planning on getting Audio Imperia Nucleus, but this is just over twice as much for cost but 30x larger in gigabytes so now I might have to get this instead


----------



## Lee Blaske

Loving listening to the demos. There's a huge amount of depth, complexity and roominess to the sound without it being at all slathered with reverb. I'm sure you can go ahead and slather these sounds with reverb if you wish, but having a library sound rich and present without being overly-reverbed is a huge achievement.


----------



## Wolf68

20 mic positions? 3 of them would be totally OK for me. that makes Price of...
Send me an offer and I'll buy it.


----------



## Zedcars

James H said:


> Did you SSD also?


Yes. I'm running out of space, and it will be good to have it all ready to go.


----------



## Fleer

Samsung SSD, come to mama.


----------



## Lee Blaske

BTW, it kind of is amazing that there wasn't more word out on the street that this was coming. Lots and lots of people were involved in making this, and knew what was going on. SA has got to have some tight security.


----------



## artomatic

Predicted a BIG orchestra. 
But so glad the pricing is not as big as expected.
Well done, Spitfire!


----------



## BezO

Wow!

About the only thing I "need" from this are the solo stings. But I've never graduated from Symphony Series Strings/Brass/Winds. And that price is right.

I'd need a new SSD though. I'm about 100GB short on space.


----------



## husselblum

What does "This is just the beginning" mean then? Sounds pretty complete from where I'm standing.


----------



## Zero&One

Zedcars said:


> Yes. I'm running out of space, and it will be good to have it all ready to go.



Yeah, with the intro discount price I'm looking at the SSD as basically included. It would take me days to download that beast.


----------



## akvalley

husselblum said:


> What does "This is just the beginning" mean then? Sounds pretty complete from where I'm standing.


I understood it to mean more sharing and collaborating around BBC-SO specifically, but also in the SA community as a culture.


----------



## BassClef

600GB... I wonder if the actual download will be that. Or will the download be much bigger and then compressed on my end.


----------



## Zedcars

Lee Blaske said:


> BTW, it kind of is amazing that there wasn't more word out on the street that this was coming. Lots and lots of people were involved in making this, and knew what was going on. SA has got to have some tight security.


Tight security...mostly...


----------



## CT

I've been planning on getting SSO for a while now, and then retiring from the mad dash of VI buying, sticking with SSO for years, barring some other great option coming along. I guess this is some other great option.


----------



## AndyP

Cor Anglais - Asher?


----------



## I like music

Breaking it down by section, that's pretty damn cheap (intro-price). It'll allow a lot of people to dump old templates and start from scratch.


----------



## Michael Stibor

I was expecting to have a snarky reaction, but this actually seems pretty cool. And the price is very reasonable. 

Now, about those legatos. Fingers crossed that they've finally gotten it on par (or even in the ballpark of) the CSS stuff.


----------



## Zedcars

Also, did they just cut their own throats by rendering all their previous orchestral libraries "out of date". No, that sounds disrespectful. Their other orchestral libraries are still great, but surely most people would think that this one is far more integrated, less fiddly, more versatile and complete. You have to wonder if there will be price drops for their older products.

I think they could have charged twice that and people would still pay it. I mean, look at how VSL price their libraries - very much higher.


----------



## Pablocrespo

So, now wondering about this vs waiting to complete cinematic studio orchestra. The quality of the legatos will be a a big defining factor


----------



## VinRice

Andy Blaney is my spirit animal.

I suppose it's to be expected, but it feels weird that it actually does sound like the BBC. It's a sound that British people have heard so much during their lifetimes that it's a bit spooky. Alex, who did those 1950's "Light Entertainment" orchestral skits will be all over that ribbon mic.


----------



## redlester

NKS compatible! Fab. Hopefully they can do the same with their other non-Kontakt instruments as updates.

Also - I wonder if at some point they will issue updates of existing libraries with the new lossless files? Probably not but it would be nice to win back tons of disc space.


----------



## Raphioli

mikefrommontreal said:


> Now, about those legatos. Fingers crossed that they've finally gotten it on par (or even in the ballpark of) the CSS stuff.


Exactly.

Especially because the price is good for a full orchestra library.
And I just listened to Christians demo on their website and it sounds great as well.
So I hope the legatos sound great for all sections.


----------



## Zedcars

I might have to go back to Logic again just for the templates. I've used it on and off, but always felt more at home in Cubase.


----------



## I like music

For some reason, up until now I've never been interested in Spitfire stuff. Couldn't tell you why. But now I am. The sheer _ease_ of having everything just sound the same out of the box is a bigger draw than I had previously imagined. I'm currently trying to balance SM strings, CSS, CSB, Infinite Series, with some EW percussion, Chocolate Audio Harp. All _excellent_ libraries, but man, it is beyond my skill level to bring that all into one nice room.


----------



## Zero&One

VinRice said:


> I'm in the very happy position of having no money at the moment so I can watch this all unfold in a calm and relaxed state without the danger of 'sample library intro discount fever' taking hold, (hmm, unless...)



You buying it then?


----------



## Gingerbread

I like music said:


> Breaking it down by section, that's pretty damn cheap (intro-price). It'll allow a lot of people to dump old templates and start from scratch.


I wonder about that. For a library of this size, with this many patches and 1,000,000+ samples, what is the likelihood of there being many little problems, inconsistencies, etc.? While it absolutely sounds amazing as a whole, will each section really be able to rival the best of what's out there? Could its string patches really rival CSS or Afflatus? Or its brass rival CineBrass or CSB? Its woodwinds rival Berlin Woodwinds?

The strength of this new library is that it is all-in-one, at a very affordable price. But for many of us, we've invested in best-of-class section libraries. I'd be truly amazed if this is truly able to rival them in quality.


----------



## Geocranium

The only thing I find a bit odd is that, according to their list of sampled instruments, they didn't sample a solo bass trombone? I only see bass trombones a2, and then right to the contrabass trombone. Seems a bit odd for such a dedicated product.


----------



## I like music

Gingerbread said:


> I wonder about that. For a library of this size, with this many patches and 1,000,000+ samples, what is the likelihood of there being many little problems, inconsistencies, etc.? While it absolutely sounds amazing as a whole, will each section really be able to rival the best of what's out there? Could its string patches really rival CSS or Afflatus? Or its brass rival CineBrass or CSB? Its woodwinds rival Berlin Woodwinds?
> 
> The strength of this new library is that it is all-in-one, at a very affordable price. But for many of us, we've invested in best-of-class section libraries. I'd be truly amazed if this is truly able to rival them in quality.



Hadn't thought of it this way. In fact, I just posted a comment with the opposite reaction, but interesting point... I guess I don't know about Spitfire's history or ability with keeping things consistent, as I don't have any of their products, so I'll have to wait for release to see.


----------



## BezO

Zedcars said:


> ...You have to wonder if there will be price drops for their older products...


I'm hoping for this, but their similar libraries cost much more. They'd have to be on super sale to want over this.




redlester said:


> NKS compatible! Fab. Hopefully they can do the same with their other non-Kontakt instruments as updates.


1st thing I looked for.


----------



## Zedcars

Geocranium said:


> The only thing I find a bit odd is that, according to their list of sampled instruments, they didn't sample a solo bass trombone? I only see bass trombones a2, and then right to the contrabass trombone. Seems a bit odd for such a dedicated product.


They forgot to do it! 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Denkii

Did I finally find a reason to sell my second near mint Technics SL MK2?
Anyone interested?


----------



## tomosane

I'll have to wonder if it will be possible to only install certain mic positions, bringing the SSD footprint considerably lower than 600GB still. Unless I'm missing something, the list of mics seems -way- overkill for a lot of prospective users


----------



## VinRice

James H said:


> You buying it then?



Of course! 

Happily there's a couple of months to raise the cash.


----------



## redlester

From the FAQ;



> BBC Symphony Orchestra will not be included in our upcoming Black Friday and Christmas sales.



So looks like next spring's wish list sale will be the first opportunity to get 40% off.


----------



## Loïc D

Anyway, I love their subscription model when you pay once for a full orchestra.


----------



## Fysik

So do you think this will just go into epic or we can also use it like a solo string library? Or maybe they hinted that when saying "this is just the beginning" that there'll be more in a solo string, brass, woodwinds direction thing?!


----------



## Denkii

Someone said earlier they are hoping for SA to release some sort of Berlin Inspire rival.
If you think about it...you got your wish granted...kinda.
Intro price is less than BO1+2 and you get so much more.


----------



## zolhof

Zedcars said:


> Also, did they just cut their own throats by rendering all their previous orchestral libraries "out of date". No, that sounds disrespectful. Their other orchestral libraries are still great, but surely most people would think that this one is far more integrated, less fiddly, more versatile and complete. You have to wonder if there will be price drops for their older products.



Imho it's all about having options. No single library will excel in every situation. Sure you can have a solid all-rounder - and I think that's the case with the BBCSO - but I wouldn't dismiss any of my other libraries. A good sounding sample is a good sounding sample, no matter when it was recorded or released. Take the Symphobia series as an example... I still get goosebumps playing those multis.

The BBCSO is the first library in a long time that sounded close to what I expect to hear from a mockup in 2020. Out of the box impressive sound, no bullshit. Andy's demo is brilliant and could be seen as the new standard but Henson's sold it to me. I could talk about depth, clarity, expression, but at this point, I'll just say it sounds like the perfect chocolate cake. If you like chocolate cake as much as I do, you will totally get what I'm saying hehe Congrats, Spitfire!


----------



## Michael Antrum

This is going to have implications for other orchestral sample library developers. The intro price compared to other high end orchestral library manufacturers is stark.

If this library is everything is portends to be, then I can forsee some turbulence.

It certainly sounds impressive and the stats are very impressive.

In some ways it's what Steinberg have tried to do with Iconica - but Spitfire have 'out-appled' them....


----------



## Denkii

I won't consider buying this before @babylonwaves updates cubase conductor for this.



Is what I tell myself.


----------



## robgb

I get the feeling that the BBC means a lot more to them than it does to me. But that Blaney demo was truly amazing. The live demoing was a little underwhelming, however.


----------



## Garry

One of my favorite aspects to this: there is a LONG thread discussing a suggestion I'd made to Christian about asking them to release the Logic files for their demos. Despite Christian replying, saying he thought it was a "great idea", there was lots of polarized discussion about this, with those who disagreed suggesting it wasn't technically possible, shouldn't be expected, and even suggested 'entitlement' for even asking. At the time, I suggested that my anticipation was that this is Spitfire, and I'm sure they'll do something more innovative, than just release the Logic/Midi files. Well, now, here it is... one of the concepts behind having the whole orchestra in one place, was to be able to share precisely this sort of information - Christian & Paul here talked about studying Holst, Debussy etc, using the Logic file, and the BBCSO as a common platform, to be able to share information. For education purposes alone, this is absolutely wonderful! What a great time to be a musician.


----------



## Eptesicus

200 pounds for a 1tb ssd? Are they having a laugh/still living in 2015?

Also, they built this up to be some sort of brand new idea/game changer....its just another orchestral library?!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Michael Antrum said:


> This is going to have implications for other orchestral sample library developers. The intro price compared to other high end orchestral library manufacturers is stark.
> 
> If this library is everything is portends to be, then I can forsee some turbulence.
> 
> It certainly sounds impressive and the stats are very impressive.
> 
> In some ways it's what Steinberg have tried to do with Iconica - but Spitfire have 'out-appled' them....



None of us really know what the library is actually like at this point. You're hearing demos that (like most developers) have been programmed to their maximum potential.....that, plus a live play through of a few patches. I'm sure it will be a great library, but I personally doubt it will create turbulence in the industry. It will be interesting to check out the walkthroughs that emerge online.


----------



## NoamL

Digivolt said:


> I don't see how it changes anything in the sampling landscape like Christian was hinting at before the announcement.




I think that's why some people (myself ruefully included) guessed/speculated that there would be more to this than just announcing an orchestral product. Christian's comments about "moving from pirate radio to mainstream" seem to refer to collaborating with BBC.

On consideration, the fact that they're releasing the ENTIRE ORCHESTRA in one go is kind of a gamechanger. We all just assumed it'd be strings because everyone releases their products in volumes these days.


----------



## Karl Feuerstake

I considered they were going to record the BBC orchestra when I first saw the preview, but I thought this was too far-fetched to be a realistic guess.

Seems like it's gonna be a game changer. Here's hoping.


----------



## Zero&One

I think the Share & Collaborate part was interesting, and maybe a bit rushed and overshadowed by the rest of the presentation.
Be nice to see where they take that...

Users on here being able to slap up a project knowing others can load it, edit, send back is cool.


----------



## Hanu_H

Sounds really good, nothing really groundbreaking but a solid sounding full orchestra in a nice sounding hall. But the most interesting and the most revolutionary thing in it is the pricing. It will put a lot of pressure to other developers and their future library valuations. But how freaking much ram will it take to load the whole orchestra?


----------



## AndyP

I want to see the default settings for patches. How many articulations, how many mics will be activated. 
A big plus is, that you can choose to load all, or just 1 articulation which makes the footprint small, even its a big library.
The moreover a mix out of the box is already a fine thing.
The demo was convincing, but more details are essential to get me to buy.


----------



## ManicMiner

I was actually expecting something completely different and outside the box. Its another orchestral library. Probably a very good one, but... 


robgb said:


> the BBC means a lot more to them than it does to me


The BBC used to be a bastion of objective fairness, decency and quality for us Brits. I think those descriptors have faded somewhat though.


----------



## robgb

miket said:


> I wanted to believe in the Studio series


I love Studio Strings.


----------



## JohnG

robgb said:


> I love Studio Strings.



Yes -- it's very good. Even though I own their chamber strings already, I love having the different sound.


----------



## CT

robgb said:


> I love Studio Strings.



I know you do! I've gotten some good milage out of it too, but ultimately AIR 1 isn't totally my cup of tea. Drop $500 for Studio Orchestra Pro, or another $250 for the BBC Symphony... I'll take the latter.


----------



## Spectator

I'm sorry. This BBC stunt isn't for me. It'll be another HZ Strings style product. All promo and flautando and no real substance. Spitfire Audio are becoming the BrewDog of the Audio world.


----------



## robgb

Karl Feuerstake said:


> Seems like it's gonna be a game changer.


I'm not sure how. The Blaney demo was amazing, but, honestly, it's another symphonic library. There are already tons of those and Blaney could make them all sound fantastic.


----------



## Eptesicus

robgb said:


> I get the feeling that the BBC means a lot more to them than it does to me.



This. The whole thing comes across as quite self absorbant to be honest.

They built it up so much as some ground breaking new thing but it's just another orchestral library that appears to not even have anything interesting or useful like divisi/auto divisi etc


----------



## Sovereign

I'm impressed.


----------



## Eptesicus

Spectator said:


> I'm sorry. This BBC stunt isn't for me. It'll be another HZ Strings style product. All promo and flautando and no real substance. Spitfire Audio are becoming the BrewDog of the Audio world.



BrewDog/Apple....1tb ssd for £199!


----------



## VinRice

Just listened to Andy Blaney's demo again at full volume (sorry neighbours) - it's just fucking awesome.

Interesting thing about the 'acoustic' is, if you get over the BBC connotations, it does have a Hollywood scoring stage vibe to it. They definitely have a winner here.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Hm, I don´t share many of the remarks here. I just listened to the demo on my speakers and imo I have not heard a library which is so pristine, yet reverberant but in your face like that. Imo that demo showcased that pretty clearly that it is not yet another orchestral library. I didn´t dig the composition though but can tell pretty clearly when something sets apart. If the rest is also that great (like legato etc..will show the reviews) but the pure sound is just personally for me the total nuke.


----------



## Ruffian Price

Wait, why are the Atmos mics under "Mixes" on the page? I thought these were just the height channels.


----------



## NoamL

Pablocrespo said:


> So, now wondering about this vs waiting to complete cinematic studio orchestra. The quality of the legatos will be a a big defining factor





Gingerbread said:


> The strength of this new library is that it is all-in-one, at a very affordable price. But for many of us, we've invested in best-of-class section libraries. I'd be truly amazed if this is truly able to rival them in quality.



Agreed. Waiting for walkthroughs of individual sections.



Hanu_H said:


> Sounds really good, nothing really groundbreaking but a solid sounding full orchestra in a nice sounding hall. But the most interesting and the most revolutionary thing in it is the pricing. It will put a lot of pressure to other developers and their future library valuations. But how freaking much ram will it take to load the whole orchestra?



The fact that they released the entire orchestra in one product is a really big deal for their competition. It's Spitfire leveraging their position as the largest sample developer. Think about all the hobbyist composers - they can get what looks sort of like the EWQLSO of 2019 in one package for $1k, or they can buy section by section waiting years for developers to bring out the next section.... As crowded as the orchestral marketplace already was, any developer who is in the middle of bringing out strings "with brass coming later this year/next year" e.g. Synchron, Hyperion, Afflatus, is in trouble from this announcement I believe. Sad, because IMO Afflatus is very advanced - true divisi that is playable and polyphonic, etc.



AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hm, I don´t share many of the remarks here. I just listened to the demo on my speakers and imo I have not heard a library which is so pristine, yet reverberant but in your face like that. Imo that demo showcased that pretty clearly that it is not yet another orchestral library. I didn´t dig the composition though but can tell pretty clearly when something sets apart. If the rest is also that great (like legato etc..will show the reviews) but the pure sound is just personally for me the total nuke.



Everyone has their own ideal sound. Personally I didn't dig it very much - I actually like their AIR Lyndhurst libraries better for the basic sound tone. Now if they recorded in Abbey Road...! For string samples I love the sound of CS2, Afflatus, CSS and Mural, and I haven't yet heard anything that knocked me off my feet like CSS. Waiting for the walkthroughs!

Still, no doubt that the demos showed the cohesion of having all the orchestral samples recorded and edited together.


----------



## rainierjmartin

Though the mic bleed samples and all-in-one interface is definitely great, I want to see their sampling innovations: maybe improved performance legato for all instruments with predictive analysis of notes for example. There's an example of a Prokofiev flute excerpt on their SoundCloud that sounded really promising but nothing progressed out of that. Those are things that I would like to see.


----------



## Garry

$199 for 1Tb is my ONLY complaint, but just confirmed with them that download is an option (though it will surely take forever to download 600Gb).

For now though, not letting that cloud what is otherwise a truly fantastic release - yes, they were entitled to use 'new chapter' for this.


----------



## zolhof

Watching the keynote again, the CPU sits around 1%~4% per instance, which is awesome, but the RAM usage is about 5GB per instance. Can you purge samples in their player?


----------



## NoamL

I asked @Karma about that and he said it's not per instance, it's global RAM - sort of like the PLAY engine it reports all the RAM being used by all instances I suppose.


----------



## Spectator

...wonder if the legato and glissandi on strings actually work this time too. 
Or is it still Longs, Pizz, Spit, Flautando and Whispers again and again again.....


----------



## Eptesicus

NoamL said:


> . As crowded as the orchestral marketplace already was, any developer who is in the middle of bringing out strings "with brass coming later this year/next year" e.g. Synchron,



Lol VSL/Synchron have more to worry about than this. They need to redo the whole string library first before it is even close to being a competitive option against.....well anything.


----------



## Zedcars

The lack of divisi option is a problem. I wonder if there’s any way this can be faked using the leaders’ mics and the pitch shift trick? I guess that only gets you one desk per section though.


----------



## jamwerks

Exciting! I imagine there will be a follow up Chamber Strings, and additional players and instruments of all the sections. Looking forward to the articulation list!


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

This looks good of course, but I promised myself a long time ago never buying any sample library based on a demo by Andy Blaney. The guy could probably do more or less the same mockup with Garage Band.

I am going to wait for more walkthroughs (Paul's quick one wasn't all that convincing) and a complete articulation list.

Price is impressive. I'm still not sure about their player.

And God, they really need to stop swooning over those Sul Tastos. YES it's a beautiful sound, but this is becoming a bit ridiculous.

Anyway ! Back to my bedroom playing with the Metropolis Arks


----------



## NoamL

The following articulations were visible during the keynote. No guarantee that this is a complete list naturally.

Several *Brass *- Legato, Long Cuivre, Long Flutter, Long Sfz, Long (Sustain?), Multitongue, Stacatissimo, Marcato

*Celli* - Legato, Long Con sord, Long Flautando, Long Harmonics, Long Marcato Attack, Long Sul Ponticello, Long Sul Tasto, Long Sustain

EDIT: there's even more UI glimpses on the Spitfire site. So yeah Legatos for every 33 instruments, and lots of long and short variety notes.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> The lack of divisi option is a problem. I wonder if there’s any way this can be faked using the leaders’ mics and the pitch shift trick? I guess that only gets you one desk per section though.



They should release a separate product for this, using black & white Mancunian imagery and a Peter Saville designed GUI. Called "Joy Divisi".


----------



## robgb

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I just listened to the demo on my speakers and imo I have not heard a library which is so pristine, yet reverberant but in your face like that. Imo that demo showcased that pretty clearly that it is not yet another orchestral library.


I agree that the demo sounds AMAZING. But when Paul did the run-through of a few instruments, I found them pretty much the same-old, same-old. So, like any library, it comes down to composition, programming, and expert mixing to get that sound.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

NoamL said:


> The following articulations were visible during the keynote. No guarantee that this is a complete list naturally.
> 
> Several *Brass *- Legato, Long Cuivre, Long Flutter, Long Sfz, Long (Sustain?), Multitongue, Stacatissimo, Marcato
> 
> *Celli* - Legato, Long Con sord, Long Flautando, Long Harmonics, Long Marcato Attack, Long Sul Ponticello, Long Sul Tasto, Long Sustain
> 
> EDIT: there's even more UI glimpses on the Spitfire site. So yeah Legatos for every 33 instruments, and lots of long and short variety notes.



Let's hope it's not the usual "Flautaundo, Harmonic, Con Sord, Sul Tasto, Even Sul Tastier, Sul Ponticello aaaaand.... one "use-time-machine-for-best-results" short that's supposed to do anything


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

robgb said:


> I agree that the demo sounds AMAZING. But when Paul did the run-through of a few instruments, I found them pretty much the same-old, same-old. So, like any library, it comes down to composition, programming, and expert mixing to get that sound.


Yes, defnitely right.


----------



## robgb

Despite my minor criticism, if I were a rich man, I would buy this instantly.


----------



## Adam Takacs

Based on the video, there are both spiccato and staccato


----------



## Lee Blaske

robgb said:


> I agree that the demo sounds AMAZING. But when Paul did the run-through of a few instruments, I found them pretty much the same-old, same-old. So, like any library, it comes down to composition, programming, and expert mixing to get that sound.



Well, it sounded like we were hearing what Paul was playing through the room mics after being pumped through the sound system in the presentation hall. Not at all a good example of what things really sound like.


----------



## MaxOctane

BassClef said:


> 600GB... I wonder if the actual download will be that. Or will the download be much bigger and then compressed on my end.



I think the spitfire player downloads are 1:1, compared with kontakt libs which are 2:1


----------



## Illico

This is the new EWQLSO reference....but without Piano...Gongs, Harpsichord, Sticks... hopefully with True Legato.


----------



## robgb

Lee Blaske said:


> Well, it sounded like we were hearing what Paul was playing through the room mics after being pumped through the sound system in the presentation hall. Not at all a good example of what things really sound like.


Absolutely true. Why they didn't pipe it through the same audio as the video, I'm not sure. But that would have made more sense.


----------



## 667

Andy is good but he's not so good he can make that 3D sound appear out of nothing.

Compare this demo to his Albion ONE demo. They are night and day in terms of realism and it's not the programming, or the legatos, it's the space. This really does sound like a real orchestra, even if some of the legatos are imperfect, they sound like they're really there in the space.

That said I don't plan to buy this because I don't need it right now and I won't pay $1000 when the intro price is over. I already have Albion I-V and SCS (among thousands of $$$ more of orch samples) and while they don't have this sound character that I really really like they do not ever stop me from making music. But I guess that depends on what I hear after release, if the individual sections are also appealing enough I may go for it.


----------



## redlester

Garry said:


> $199 for 1Tb is my ONLY complaint, but just confirmed with them that download is an option (though it will surely take forever to download 600Gb).



Agree. £249 for the non-discounted price! At present I could buy a 1TB Samsung T5 for £133 off Amazon. And they say they are making a loss on them?

A quick calculation at my normal download speed 600GB would take around 35-40 hours. Do-able but a PITA. Need to think about that one.


----------



## Daniel James

Was the game changed? Havn't watched the stream yet, I am about to. People seem hyped tho so i'm hopeful!

-DJ


----------



## Garry

AND... as a Logic user, I finally get to feel some superiority over Cubase! Was not sure this day would ever arrive!!


----------



## MaxOctane

BezO said:


> Wow!
> 
> About the only thing I "need" from this are the solo stings. But I've never graduated from Symphony Series Strings/Brass/Winds. And that price is right.
> 
> I'd need a new SSD though. I'm about 100GB short on space.



Solo strings are usually the weak link in the library like this. I wouldn’t get my hopes up that this will solve your solo string needs.


----------



## noises on

Lee Blaske said:


> Well, it sounded like we were hearing what Paul was playing through the room mics after being pumped through the sound system in the presentation hall. Not at all a good example of what things really sound like.


I am sure that is exactly how we were hearing it....why would they not send a direct feed into the stream?


----------



## robgb

Daniel James said:


> Was the game changed? Havn't watched the stream yet, I am about to. People seem hyped tho so i'm hopeful!
> 
> -DJ


No. But it was impressive.


----------



## Consona

Daniel James said:


> Was the game changed?


Honestly, @AlexanderSchiborr 's mock ups with the libraries that are already available sound way more realistic than the demo in the video, IMO.


----------



## MaxOctane

Zedcars said:


> Also, did they just cut their own throats by rendering all their previous orchestral libraries "out of date". No, that sounds disrespectful. Their other orchestral libraries are still great, but surely most people would think that this one is far more integrated, less fiddly, more versatile and complete.
> 
> I think they could have charged twice that and people would still pay it.



I dont think it works like that. They don’t *need *to keep selling their older orchestral libs. If you dont have any, they want this to be your first. If you already have one or many, they need to give people a reason to buy one more. 

The older ones stop mattering.


----------



## Lee Blaske

robgb said:


> Absolutely true. Why they didn't pipe it through the same audio as the video, I'm not sure. But that would have made more sense.



It was a live presentation. I'm sure they didn't want to have any snafus, and they wanted Paul and Christian to be able to keep speaking as the playing was happening. The playing section was pretty short. No doubt, there will be extensive walk-through demos.


----------



## Digivolt

redlester said:


> Agree. £249 for the non-discounted price! At present I could buy a 1TB Samsung T5 for £133 off Amazon. And they say they are making a loss on them?
> 
> A quick calculation at my normal download speed 600GB would take around 35-40 hours. Do-able but a PITA. Need to think about that one.



£98.50 for a Crucial Mx500, and Spitfire are supposedly selling these at "cost" ? I wonder what brand they are, unless the "cost" includes loading the library on the drive, £80 to drag and drop a file from one folder to another ?


----------



## robgb

Consona said:


> Honestly, @AlexanderSchiborr 's mock ups with the libraries that are already available sound way more realistic than the demo in the video, IMO.


This may be true, but this demo sounded pretty fucking realistic to me.


----------



## Lee Blaske

MaxOctane said:


> I dont think it works like that. They don’t *need *to keep selling their older orchestral libs. If you dont have any, they want this to be your first. If you already have one or many, they need to give people a reason to buy one more.
> 
> The older ones stop mattering.



Different libraries have different sounds. I don't think any of us would ever want to have a situation where every piece of music being realized around the world used the same library. OTOH, having a library that's kind of a world standard for things like score study would be pretty great, and this will be a contender for that.


----------



## Manaberry

It was basically a product presentation but definitely not a key note.
BBCSO sounds cool but it's again another product..
What's going on with the actual product line? Where is SSO Pro? Bug fixes are needed on some patches from Studio Pro and SSO. What's on the pipe?


----------



## Consona

Yea, this library seems "consistent". All sections, with articulations hopefully balanced against each other, recorded in the same space. That's gonna make it way easier to put a track together.

I'm still waiting for the Orchestral Tools a ala carte shopping system + Junkie Brass though.


----------



## redlester

This sounds intriguing and potentially game changing, although am not quite sure what it means yet!:


> Beyond a new standard for orchestral sampling libraries lies a blueprint for an ongoing collaboration with the BBC that will provide resources – online and live – for a community of musicians ready to produce the orchestral music and blockbuster scores of the future. BBC Symphony Orchestra is just the beginning..


----------



## Garry

Oh no, there IS a downside... I would now have all of the resources available to me that Andy Blaney just used in that demo, and now I will have absolutely no excuses, apart from the blindingly obvious, for why mine sounds so utterly shite compared to his!!! What will I blame it now... I wonder if 8Dio has a flash sale on at the moment - I think I must be still missing something...


----------



## Guy Rowland

noises on said:


> I am sure that is exactly how we were hearing it....why would they not send a direct feed into the stream?



Yes, this was a little unfortunate. Amazing Andy B demo, and I am very positive about this release despite many frustrations and disappointments from Spitfire in the past and their shockingly poor QC. Maybe this is the one that will be different? But when you get to that point in the video when you actually hear it, it's...

Oh.

It never ceases to amaze me the basic sound errors that developers make in their promos. How much did that launch cost? Could they not pay for a dedicated sound mixer for the video stream, the part that - you know - the entire world hears except for a few hundred in a room? If this video is to stay up, it will be causing disappointment forevermore. Hopefully they multitracked it and can remix the audio, because its pretty shocking. I can hear primarily what it is - a sound mix issue, not the library, but it doesn't mean I know what the library really sounds like.

Of course more walkthroughs will come, awaiting with interest. This really could be something special, but its just too soon to tell.


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> This sounds intriguing and potentially game changing, although am not quite sure what it means yet!:


I may be interpreting that wrongly, but it sounds like you will be able to have soloists or maybe whole sections play and record live, provided you can afford them!


----------



## Eptesicus

robgb said:


> I agree that the demo sounds AMAZING. But when Paul did the run-through of a few instruments, I found them pretty much the same-old, same-old. So, like any library, it comes down to composition, programming, and expert mixing to get that sound.



This.

To base anything one one demo is a mistake.



redlester said:


> And they say they are making a loss on them?



That is just a lie. Or they are getting conned by their own suppliers.


----------



## Chungus

Mother of God, those mic positions. I hope it'll be possible to not download those. I don't fancy spending dozens of hours downloading things I'm never going to use.

Beyond that, I'm looking forward to seeing the full articulations list and walkthroughs. After, I'll decide if this is something I want or not. The mere announcement itself isn't blowing my mind.


----------



## PaulieDC

Zedcars said:


> Ahaha...did you hear CH at the very end? He dropped an f bomb just before they cut the feed!


He does that in his sleep I'm sure...


----------



## Digivolt

Zedcars said:


> I may be interpreting that wrongly, but it sounds like you will be able to have soloists or maybe whole sections play and record live, provided you can afford them!



I interpret it as educational tutorials which is more interesting to me than the library, if it came as part of the purchase of the library then it would make the library actually unique compared to others but they never really said much about it so I dunno


----------



## Soundhound

Sounds like a binge watching opportunity to me. Breaking Bad, SMILF, Fleabag come to mind. 

I'm here to help.




redlester said:


> Agree. £249 for the non-discounted price! At present I could buy a 1TB Samsung T5 for £133 off Amazon. And they say they are making a loss on them?
> 
> A quick calculation at my normal download speed 600GB would take around 35-40 hours. Do-able but a PITA. Need to think about that one.


----------



## givemenoughrope

Congrats, SF! Just going by the Blaney demo and the fact that it’s BBC (wow)...I mean this is a pretty amazing accomplishment that really only this company could pull off. I probably won’t be buying this for a little while but it seems inevitable that I will. And at $1k for a FULL orch. Cmon. This seems like a product that could be setting the bar (for the kind of product that it is) for a long time.

So, I’m wondering when the entire SF line gets switched over to this player, if they’ll have the same flexibility with managing articulation/mics/options, if the same libraries sound better in their player (ala PLAY ages ago) and if it will play nice VE pro 6.


----------



## 6GeLoENPIK09Pn

Here's what sold it for me.

That screencap of the Andy Blaney demo where he's using the Jake Jackson mic mix - every single fader is at 0 untouched.

If this thing is really that plug and play then I will buy it without hesitation. I guess we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## DerGeist

Soundhound said:


> Sounds like a binge watching opportunity to me. Breaking Bad, SMILF, Fleabag come to mind.
> 
> I'm here to help.


Someday I dream of living in a place where I can download something and stream TV at the same time. Unfortunately I live downtown in the capital city of a major western country so naturally that kind of internet service is not available to me.


----------



## PaulieDC

BassClef said:


> 600GB... I wonder if the actual download will be that. Or will the download be much bigger and then compressed on my end.


Since it is already compressed it's most likely that 600GB+ is the size of the download. HOWEVER, it's a standalone player which means there probably needs to be a couple hundred gigs free on the drive for processing the installation. Berlin Strings and Brass needed that for the install.

SA is charging way too much for a SATA SSD, $249 after the intro? That's double of a Samsung 860. I'm puting the library on an M.2 2280 NVMe SSD which is 7x faster than SATA. If SA was REALLY cool they would offer that option also. SATA SSDs aren't fast anymore, they're normal. Times they are a-changin'!


----------



## MaxOctane

Daniel James said:


> Based on the limited flicking through I guess the best word to describe this would be... consistent? Sounds great together, I'm looking forward to hearing how it blends with other libs.



Consistency would be a huge win. Even the beloved SCS has differences in phase, room, etc.

Sound quality, on the other hand, is (mostly) a solved problem at this point.


----------



## Denkii

DerGeist said:


> Someday I dream of living in a place where I can download something and stream TV at the same time. Unfortunately I live downtown in the capital city of a major western country so naturally that kind of internet service is not available to me.


Hamburg, 1000mbit via cable/ 500mbit via glass fiber no problem.
Consider moving?


----------



## redlester

Soundhound said:


> Sounds like a binge watching opportunity to me. Breaking Bad, SMILF, Fleabag come to mind.
> 
> I'm here to help.



Good idea. I might re-watch all seven series of Mad Men.


----------



## Sovereign

Pretty much sold on a pre-order, since it's so cohesive and I like the sound. Gonna hold out and see if further details and/or demos will make me change my mind. Would like to see information on dynamics too.


----------



## zolhof

redlester said:


> This sounds intriguing and potentially game changing, although am not quite sure what it means yet!:



Maybe remote sessions? Have your BBCSO mockups recorded by the real BBCSO. Sounds like a cool concept and, for the right price, I'd be all over it. 

I remember reading that the Maida Vale changeover isn't expected to happen until 2023 and that the studios wouldn't go down if a new owner was found. Maybe Spitfire is buying MV1? Just spitballing, of course. Dunno if this is even feasible for a company of their size.


----------



## Denkii

Sovereign said:


> Pretty much sold on a pre-order, since it's so cohesive and I like the sound. Gonna hold out and see if further details and/or demos will make me change my mind. Would like to see information on dynamics too.


No need to rush. Introduction price is valid until November 7th.


----------



## Zedcars

zolhof said:


> Maybe remote sessions? Have your BBCSO mockups recorded by the real BBCSO. Sounds like a cool concept and, for the right price, I'd be all over it.
> 
> I remember reading that the Maida Vale changeover isn't expected to happen until 2023 and that the studios wouldn't go down if a new owner was found. Maybe Spitfire is buying MV1? Just spitballing, of course. Dunno if this is even feasible for a company of their size.


My thoughts too.


----------



## redlester

PaulieDC said:


> SA is charging way too much for a SATA SSD, $249 after the intro? That's double of a Samsung 860. I'm puting the library on an M.2 2280 NVMe SSD which is 7x faster than SATA. If SA was REALLY cool they would offer that option also. SATA SSDs aren't fast anymore, they're normal. Times they are a-changin'!



Is it a SATA SSD? I was assuming it would be USB. Perhaps it's a Thunderbolt drive?
You'd think they would provide a bit more technical info on that.


----------



## redlester

givemenoughrope said:


> So, I’m wondering when the entire SF line gets switched over to this player



This often gets mentioned, but even in the FAQ for BBC SO they are still saying that they are not abandoning Kontakt.


----------



## Ihnoc

I think it is interesting that they've recorded such a large _unit_ together. I know the Symphonic series and many others are made up of session players who typically play together in other orchestras, but this _whole library_ is a single orchestral group. It captures the sound of an entire orchestra at a particular time, from a room of a particular time. There's something quite poetic about the immortalisation aspect there, to me.

Sound wise, I'll wait for walkthroughs. I'm not immediately having my socks blown off but I liked the rawness I heard. Bit disappointed by just solo and then a2/a3/a4 sections but maybe I'm spoiled by Berlin Brass/Woodwinds. Percussion sounds interesting to me, as do the strings.

I hope you can download microphone positions individually...


----------



## Scamper

I like the idea of the all-in-one orchestra and it's unfortunate, that Steinberg Iconica is a bit under the radar, but this could be a pretty solid library. Having it all together surely helps to make it more consistent.

Now, I'm curious how performant the Spitfire Player will be with the full orchestral setup compared to the Kontakt libraries.
Also, I'm really hoping for some nice legatos. After having the luxury of CSS, I feel like legatos, that aren't as smooth and advanced, don't cut it quite the same anymore.

The Andy Blaney track surely sounds great and solid. 
Certainly much more excited for this than for the studio series.


----------



## PaulieDC

Lee Blaske said:


> Well, it sounded like we were hearing what Paul was playing through the room mics after being pumped through the sound system in the presentation hall. Not at all a good example of what things really sound like.


Actually, we were hearing a feed from the mixing desk which was in NO doubt broadcast-attenuated to probablt -24 to make absolutely sure the signal didn't overload anywhere along the broadcast chain. Their lapel mics where that same "out of breath" level. Man, I wanted to throw an L2 brickwall limiter on the output and yank that fader down, lol! The demo was GREAT, obviously someone wasn't afraid to ooch up the trim on those channels.


----------



## jamwerks

I don't much care for Synchron, Teldex is good, and Sony is golden. Hopefully I'll fall in love with this room.

They've shown elsewhere they know how to do "playable" patches covering legato, long & short all in one patch. Hoping for advances in programming and playability over older libraries.


----------



## Zedcars

Just listened to the Andy Blaney piece again on headphones. Nice wide and clear stereo image. Deep sound. Brass almost too upfront, but natural sound I guess. However, the sound does die away very quickly at the end. Might need to add another reverb, but then again it will cost clarity.

Edit: Of course, I should be able to adjust the room ambience to suit.


----------



## Michael Stibor

On the one hand, I don't think this was a "game changer". On the other hand, I was convinced that this was going to be the British Flautando Orchestra or something. So I'll consider it a success.

And yeah, be careful with those Blaney demos. They can be deceiving. I loved the one he did for the Herrmann toolkit, but the actual program was a lot less flexible in real life. No knock against the demo. It's truthful. And Andy's talent shines through. But it maybe that the music was written around the program, as opposed to the program being flexible enough to accommodate different styles of music.


----------



## AndyP

PaulieDC said:


> HOWEVER, it's a standalone player which means there probably needs to be a couple hundred gigs free on the drive for processing the installation. Berlin Strings and Brass needed that for the install.


For my understanding its plug and play. Not necessary to install if you go for the ssd option.


----------



## PaulieDC

Guy Rowland said:


> ...How much did that launch cost? Could they not pay for a dedicated sound mixer for the video stream, the part that - you know - the entire world hears except for a few hundred in a room?



Been doing FOH engineer for decades. That issue, which also drove me nuts, was the wizard, not the wand. To have the demo vs mics vs line feed from their onstage library be that out of balance was purely human... error.

Andy Blaney showed what that library can sound like. The rest is up to us. (ugh, that's a distressing thought, lol...)


----------



## BassClef

another thought... considering their primary emphasis on sharing... everyone must always have the same library. So any changes or additions that come along must be FREE, rather than paid "add ons" as in a "pro" upgrade.


----------



## PaulieDC

AndyP said:


> For my understanding its plug and play. Not necessary to install if you go for the ssd option.


You're right, I now remember him saying that. The question to answer will be the utility they use (SpitFire Downloader or whatever else) to see if it needs elbow room during install.


----------



## justthere

I'm coming from the perspective of wanting a new string library - I've been listening to everything out there to see what direction I want to go in. Considering that this is at the outset less than the core Berlin Strings, for example, it merited a look. I think I need a few more demos. Not hearing if I like the legatos yet. Which, to my mind, is to be expected - a $250 string library isn't supposed to be able to do everything (yes, that's what it is, if you take the other stuff out), and this one seems designed to hit the academic/entry level market - hence all of the collaborative emphasis. (Show of hands who in here writes for a living and is looking to collaborate? I'm just not.) To be honest, I'm not that psyched about it. I believe I have read that Andy Blaney's aesthetic is to do demos with the main mics only and no reverb added, and I get that, but that's not how I would ever use it. I feel like I'd rather hear how great it _could_ sound a little now. Blaney is very talented, but I didn't love the balance - it had a jump-scare kind of feel to it to me. The brass are great, and clearly he likes them too, but I really wanted to hear more definition in the other instruments. And though it sounds like the recordings are good, I'd like to see the individual patches in more detail - because what we heard on the keynote video through stage mics wasn't what it might have been and I wasn't that stoked by it. I get that some features may not be ready but if they were both able to make those demos, then I wish there would have been more content available from the jump. But who needs to preorder right now? It took a good amount of time before I started hearing demos from the new SampleModeling stuff, for example, that showed me what it was really capable of. 

By the way, demos are there to be criticized, and this is a commercial product, and I'm not just being hateful, so I'm hoping this won't draw any histrionics. But, you know, the Internet.

I'm glad to hear that comp students (to name a group) will have something better sounding as an option starting out than, say, QLSO or Garritan - that is always a win for everyone -but at the moment I'm not hearing anything that replaces or necessarily improves on what I have, which is okay, really. At that price point, I might get it for the option, but I'm thinking that unless there are more exposed and compelling examples of what it will do (the two demos there are fine and no disrespect intended at all, but they don't tell me enough), it will likely be some other stuff instead for my needs. And when he says it's only the beginning, and says it's not for everyone, and when they have a history of releasing a "pro" version of things, that also dampens my enthusiasm. It makes me wonder how many people they had going on this and for how long, considering that it seems like a rapid turnaround. And if they missed some things that they might not go back for. And what else they might add to it aside from other more exotic or genre-y instruments, since in some ways the product seems to be the platform. If they are touting it as the new standard (their words) before anyone has used it, they have a medium-to-long-term goal for the whole concept. Which is good, but maybe the second bus has better seats than the first one. As an aside - here's a thought experiment: SSO and Spitfire Percussion add up to 436 GB or so uncompressed, with three stereo microphone perspectives. The BBC Library has 20 mic perspectives and takes up 1.4 TB uncompressed. So...


----------



## DerGeist

Denkii said:


> Hamburg, 1000mbit via cable/ 500mbit via glass fiber no problem.
> Consider moving?


My issue is less the city infrastructure than my neighbourhood's. Older neighbourhood so the fibre stops at my street and its 5mbsp copper to my door. Cable provider will only sell cable internet with a cable TV package (which I don't want) to the tune of $120 a month. Sigh.


----------



## PaulieDC

redlester said:


> Is it a SATA SSD? I was assuming it would be USB. Perhaps it's a Thunderbolt drive?
> You'd think they would provide a bit more technical info on that.


You know what? That's a great question. I looked at the picture again and I only see the box. I just assumed that it was a standard 2.5" drive, like buying a bare Samsung drive. But that makes no sense for Mac users. Us Windows dorks with huge towers (mine's 12-bay and weighs 65lbs, lol) can pop a drive in and out easily so I was thinking in that manner, but Apple runs a tighter hardware ship to maintain consistency. So yeah, it probably IS in an external case and may very well have a variety of connection ports like the LaCie externals have. That would explain $249 for a 1TB drive "at their cost". Yes, specs on the drive would be appreciated especially on the day of launching the greatest thing since Edison invented the light bulb. But I was definitely off thinking it was a bare SATA drive.

Someone pass me a glass of water so I can wash down this foot...


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Eptesicus said:


> That is just a lie. Or they are getting conned by their own suppliers.



It depends on what kind of SSD it is. I doubt its an SLC or enterprise-grade SSD, but the fact is, we don't know. 

Probably worth asking what kind of SSD they are shipping though.


----------



## Wunderhorn

They must be getting those $249 SSDs wholesale from Apple.


----------



## Robin

I don't quite understand what exactly the target group is. On the one hand they speak about "game changer" and "new standard", on the other hand it seems quite far from being "deep sampled" (besides the additional mics) - just looking at the instrument list (no divisi strings, no individual chairs on ww/brass, missing standard instruments like alto flute, weird choice of balance with 4 Horns Ensemble vs. 5 Trombones Ensemble (3 Tenor+2 Bass)) and a price tag more targeted towards semipro users and far below their current symphonic series. I guess only time (and more demos) will tell but currently to me it seems more like "just another library"...


----------



## PaulieDC

One thing many of us were thinking was, if I order this now at the discount, will it be half price at the holidays? I was hoping they would say that this library will NOT, making the commitment to the intro price a bit easier.

Well, they DID, in their FAQ. Spitfire states: "BBC Symphony Orchestra will not be included in our upcoming Black Friday and Christmas sales."

_Honey? I NEED this library! And I have to get it by Nov 7th! _


----------



## Michael Antrum

Wunderhorn said:


> They must be getting those $249 SSDs wholesale from Apple.



Yeah, because computer hardware is the same price in the UK as it is in the US, there are absolutely no labour or other costs involved in copying the data, the packaging is of course is supplied free of any cost to Spitfire, and the the couriers are delivering them free of charge too...

Seriously, by the time they've done all that I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were going out at around cost price....


----------



## Uiroo

Game changer? 
A sampler like kontakt but with an undo function would have done it.

I think it sounds nice, but somehow i feel like the other andy blaney demos (like benny and jack in the box)sound better to my ears. Maybe its taste or i just don't get it. Don't know.

Anyway, my compositions aren't on Andys level, so i'll focus on that instead of buying "game changing" plugins.


----------



## KEM

Gotta say I’m quite impressed so far, I love the idea of having this much cohesion across a sample library, will surely make it less of a hassle to try and glue everything together which I can certainly appreciate, but of course I’ll have to wait for the walkthroughs to make a final opinion (gotta make sure the string shorts are ACTUALLY short haha)


----------



## Chungus

justthere said:


> As an aside - here's a thought experiment: SSO and Spitfire Percussion add up to 436 GB or so uncompressed, with three stereo microphone perspectives. The BBC Library has 20 mic perspectives and takes up 1.4 TB uncompressed. So...


This point here is also one of the reasons I decided against Symphonic Organ. It has more than two times the bloat of UCO, for a sonic difference I personally can't discern. Bigger doesn't always mean better.


----------



## PaulieDC

Robin said:


> I don't quite understand what exactly the target group is. On the one hand they speak about "game changer" and "new standard", on the other hand it seems quite far from being "deep sampled" (besides the additional mics) - just looking at the instrument list (no divisi strings, no individual chairs on ww/brass, missing standard instruments like alto flute, weird choice of balance with 4 Horns Ensemble vs. 5 Trombones Ensemble (3 Tenor+2 Bass)) and a price tag more targeted towards semipro users and far below their current symphonic series. I guess only time (and more demos) will tell but currently to me it seems more like "just another library"...


I keep hearing Christian and Paul in their plethora of videos talk about how much more time they spend with ensemble patches for composition, and we've seen an increase in a layout-style library (Albion, Berlin Inspire series, even EWSO as the pioneer of that). This is TOTAL speculation, but it seems like the target audience isn't specific _yet _but will become that IF the industry can start providing bigger more powerful band-in-a-box libraries. Well, today they showed that someone can spin up a massive famous orchestra to take an all-in-one library from notepad level to stage level, and it's entirely possible that people may start changing the way they compose, and not micro-composing by getting 3 notes down from a favored instrument in one of 17 different libraries. Instead, work with what you have if the library has plenty of choices in one box. And since everyone composes different, then multiple people could do what Paul mentioned quickly, each person can work on sections and then putting it al together is easy because it's one universal library. Remember when 4K TVs emerged? There was no audience and no content YET. That's changing or it HAS really, even YouTube is 4K savvy, and now 8K is being pushed with no customer base YET. In that same way, it seems like the Spitfire Duo is attempting to add or change the way film scoring happens. One concerning result of that is, compositions would get done faster theoretically, which can have 2 bad repercussions: Customers will begin to expect completed works done faster, and competition gets tougher all around. That's if band-in-a-box mindset starts sticking with libraries of this nature. In some ways, I believe a fuse of change has been lit... just not sure what bomb it's connected to, lol.


----------



## Rick McGuire

Do the demos sound good?-Incredible (Andy Blaney is a freaking genius)

Is it game changing?-????

It's more orchestral samples... I'm amazed at the size and the detail. I doubt I'll buy it though. Holding out for SSO pro


----------



## borisb2

Manaberry said:


> It was basically a product presentation but definitely not a key note.
> BBCSO sounds cool but it's again another product..
> What's going on with the actual product line? Where is SSO Pro? Bug fixes are needed on some patches from Studio Pro and SSO. What's on the pipe?



very good points .. got StudioStrings - dont use it too often because of inconsitencies. Don't see any support or updates happening.

BBCSO is just another library - not more not less. I like the sound - as I like the sound from all the other libraries I own. I like the consistency (well, after hearing 1 demo - CHs demo doesn't count, that's more sound design to me), having the whole orchestra in 1 GUI is a great thing for sure - but I spent too much time finessing the existing template to get a balanced orchestral sound with VARIOUS sections or moods ready to go (LASS, CSS, SStS, HWS) .. and besides, the Brass was pretty prominent in Blaneys demo.

And Maida Vaile .. I couldn't care less to be honest - even if Churchill himself got married in these halls. I do have libraries from the Sydney sound stage, from the world famous Sony sound stage, from the heart of Hollywood in general where all these colorful blockbusters are being made. In fact, I'm using the same internet as Hans Zimmer or Danny Elfman. Does that make me write better music? .. ehhm, no.

And yes, that was more a product presentation to me, not a key note. Calm down SA. I can understand if the guys are/were super excited working with the BBC together, in a historic hall. But again - it (just) sounds like another library with a distinct sound. Can it do chamber? Can it sound more intimate? Will need to hear more demos to get convinced


----------



## jaketanner

Digivolt said:


> Sounds good, price is fair considering the size & quality, think it was overhyped though, it's just another sample library and I don't see how it changes anything in the sampling landscape like Christian was hinting at before the announcement.
> 
> I was planning on getting Audio Imperia Nucleus, but this is just over twice as much for cost but 30x larger in gigabytes so now I might have to get this instead


Overhyped? Maybe...I don't think there's a plugin/VST that does their entire orchestra from one GUI. There may be all-in-ones, but not even close to the details of this. What underwhelmed me though, is the lack of a good demo. I mean Andy is good, but he's got no focus. Shit is all over the place...like trying to purposely cram as much of the library into one demo, instead of creating separate demos that feature a few of the sections. Hard to hear anything solid really. 

And it's an advancement in sampling because of the dead mics. Meaning they finally recorded the instruments semi-correct. The True way would have been to actually have bodies in those empty seats...sounds bounces and resonates and gets absorbed by the amount of bodies in the hall...they could have just gotten anyone off the streets to fill those chairs..
But in terms of a new concept, having the bleed mics for the entire orchestra is awesome.


----------



## robgb

borisb2 said:


> got StudioStrings - dont use it too often because of inconsitencies


Do you mind pointing out what those inconsistencies are? I have yet to find any and am curious if I'm either lucky or missing something.


----------



## jaketanner

justthere said:


> I'm coming from the perspective of wanting a new string library - I've been listening to everything out there to see what direction I want to go in. Considering that this is at the outset less than the core Berlin Strings, for example, it merited a look. I think I need a few more demos. Not hearing if I like the legatos yet. Which, to my mind, is to be expected - a $250 string library isn't supposed to be able to do everything (yes, that's what it is, if you take the other stuff out), and this one seems designed to hit the academic/entry level market - hence all of the collaborative emphasis. (Show of hands who in here writes for a living and is looking to collaborate? I'm just not.) To be honest, I'm not that psyched about it. I believe I have read that Andy Blaney's aesthetic is to do demos with the main mics only and no reverb added, and I get that, but that's not how I would ever use it. I feel like I'd rather hear how great it _could_ sound a little now. Blaney is very talented, but I didn't love the balance - it had a jump-scare kind of feel to it to me. The brass are great, and clearly he likes them too, but I really wanted to hear more definition in the other instruments. And though it sounds like the recordings are good, I'd like to see the individual patches in more detail - because what we heard on the keynote video through stage mics wasn't what it might have been and I wasn't that stoked by it. I get that some features may not be ready but if they were both able to make those demos, then I wish there would have been more content available from the jump. But who needs to preorder right now? It took a good amount of time before I started hearing demos from the new SampleModeling stuff, for example, that showed me what it was really capable of.
> 
> By the way, demos are there to be criticized, and this is a commercial product, and I'm not just being hateful, so I'm hoping this won't draw any histrionics. But, you know, the Internet.
> 
> I'm glad to hear that comp students (to name a group) will have something better sounding as an option starting out than, say, QLSO or Garritan - that is always a win for everyone -but at the moment I'm not hearing anything that replaces or necessarily improves on what I have, which is okay, really. At that price point, I might get it for the option, but I'm thinking that unless there are more exposed and compelling examples of what it will do (the two demos there are fine and no disrespect intended at all, but they don't tell me enough), it will likely be some other stuff instead for my needs. And when he says it's only the beginning, and says it's not for everyone, and when they have a history of releasing a "pro" version of things, that also dampens my enthusiasm. It makes me wonder how many people they had going on this and for how long, considering that it seems like a rapid turnaround. And if they missed some things that they might not go back for. And what else they might add to it aside from other more exotic or genre-y instruments, since in some ways the product seems to be the platform. If they are touting it as the new standard (their words) before anyone has used it, they have a medium-to-long-term goal for the whole concept. Which is good, but maybe the second bus has better seats than the first one. As an aside - here's a thought experiment: SSO and Spitfire Percussion add up to 436 GB or so uncompressed, with three stereo microphone perspectives. The BBC Library has 20 mic perspectives and takes up 1.4 TB uncompressed. So...


I'm with you about the demo..was not good at all. Totally unfocused and crammed. Didn't let anything shine through, and very unbalanced, yes. My biggest excitement with this, is the bleed mics...I create that with careful reverb placements and lots of bussing...but it's a pain, and of course not true to the actual sound. SO I'm glad they decided to use those mics, but still did it wrong. they needed to FILL those empty seats with bodies, not leave them empty and just turn the mics on...maybe next time.


----------



## borisb2

robgb said:


> Do you mind pointing out what those inconsistencies are? I have yet to find any and am curious if I'm either lucky or missing something.


we talked about this 

I dont like the lack of attack in 1st violins (compared to all other sections) .. maybe I'm doing something wrong there .. does that sound ok to you? :




__





Spitfire Studio strings vs Cinematic Studio Strings vs Chris Hein Ensemble strings


Learn to tweak audio for godsakes. Well there's nothing to be tweaked if the legato in 1st violins in SStS swells in like crazy. it happens only on 1st violins (no idea why they didnt get rid of that when all other instruments transitions fine). Because of that I only used long sustains on 1st...




vi-control.net


----------



## AndyP

If I choose this lib I will download it. SSDs are not so expensive and I can decide how I want to integrate them.
Actually, my needs for the offered instruments are covered as far as possible. VSL, EW, and various Strings and Brass libs. Nucleus is already in the pipeline, and so on. So you can do the same with a little more effort. 
There is no instrument included that I don't have in good or very good quality.
The only advantage I see is that it is a compact thing as a whole orchestra. It just fits together as it looks without you having to screw around a lot.

At the moment I only see VSL and OT as competitors, and the bottom line is that the alternatives cost more. Maybe Iconica, but that didn't convince me about the dynamic range. And SF is competing with itself. It will be interesting to see how and whether the market reacts to this.

On my shopping list are actually quite other instruments, such as solo strings and ethnic instruments, also Spaces II. On the other hand, the entry-level price for a very good sounding and largely complete orchestra of this quality is extraordinarily good. 

But in the end I can only decide when all the facts are on the table. 750€ + extra ssd are also money.
Here I feel a little like with OT and the Arks, of which I actually only find Ark 3 interesting. If I had less librarys to cover the needs already it would be much easier for me to jump on the train, for OT as well as SF.

But maybe the details that convince me will come and there is still a lot of time to decide.

At the end there is another orchestra library, which raises the bar a little bit (maybe more), but we don't know exactly yet.


----------



## ptram

Eptesicus said:


> BrewDog/Apple....1tb ssd for £199!


I suspect filling it with samples, attaching a label, and putting it into a box ready for shipping will be done by greedy people pretending money for this.

Paolo


----------



## NoamL

MaxOctane said:


> Solo strings are usually the weak link in the library like this. I wouldn’t get my hopes up that this will solve your solo string needs.



I wouldn't call these solo strings really; they are first chairs. The comparison point would be CSSS or Berlin Strings First Chairs, not something like Joshua Bell or Virharmonic.


----------



## justthere

I'd like it to get to the point where they ship these on nvme drives, since that's something I won't end up just copying it off of.


----------



## coffeecomposer

Friendly reminder: Shiny new libraries will not improve us as composers. Don't fall for the trick.


----------



## Alex Fraser

If you'd allow me to wallow in my own crapulence for a moment, I wasn't too far off the mark predicting this one: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/spitfire-audio-“this-is-london-calling”.84345/post-4424679

That said, before HZ strings I was sure Spitfire were going to buy Air Lyndhurst, so I was due.

This looks amazing and is exactly the sort of product I wanted from Spitfire. As someone who was looking at the Spitfire SSO + perc + harp package, this turns my head somewhat.

But...I can't help thinking that it's going to cannibalise Spitfire's other products, especially at that amazing price. I'm sure SF have built all this into the plan going forward.

This might be a day one purchase. Exciting times ahead.


----------



## Lee Blaske

Seems like some are breezing by the fact that this is an identified, world-renowned orchestra of people that play together regularly. It's not a dark date recording of available independent contractor musicians that could make it on a certain day (not that good results can't be produced with that). At the end of the day, the sound is the sound, but it sure sounds great to me. We've only heard two demos so far, and people have not had a lot of time to work with the final product. Too quick to be concluding the things it can't do.

What other full orchestra libraries are out there that are actual, standing organizations?


----------



## STec

I was saving to get the Berlin Orchestra from Orchestral Tools but I might get this one instead


----------



## Lee Blaske

Alex Fraser said:


> But...I can't help thinking that it's going to cannibalise Spitfire's other products, especially at that amazing price. I'm sure SF have built all this into the plan going forward.
> 
> This might be a day one purchase. Exciting times ahead.



Things seem to be moving so fast in the sample development world these days that it doesn't take that long for a product to be old enough to be essentially invisible. It would be interesting to know what kind of response VSL has been having to its "Synchron-ized" versions of its legacy content. I'm guessing it's hard to breath a lot of new life into old content.

I'm really interested to see if SA is capable of keeping up the pace of releases in coming years.


----------



## robgb

borisb2 said:


> we talked about this


Ah. Now I remember. I think you said you were using Pro instead of Core, so that might be the difference.


----------



## NoamL

I agree @justthere & @Robin Hoffmann.

This could be a competitor to SSS/CS/EWHO etc or it could be more like a really souped up, amazing, 2019 version of EWQLSO (and in the process blow BOI out of the water hahaha). *Neither of those products would be a disappointment, to be clear*. It's just that most working composers have lots of deep sampled orchestral sections already.

Right now in my mind there are more data points pointing towards it being Spitfire's version of EWQLSO. The price for one thing - as you pointed out it boils down to less than $250 per orchestral section. The RAM loads are very reasonable, you won't need a networked VEPro computer if you don't load large amounts of mics. The true sample size is 1400gb, but divide it by 20 (signals) and then there are 55 different instruments so.... 

On the other hand, the data points that lean towards *"true deep sampled battleship library" *are the involvement of the BBC, the enormous array of mics, the futureproofing with Atmos, and the fact that this is a developer that has sampled an entire orchestral lineup TWICE (BML and then Studio Series) and are now going back to the well a third time with all the lessons they've learned.


----------



## Lee Blaske

coffeecomposer said:


> Friendly reminder: Shiny new libraries will not improve us as composers. Don't fall for the trick.



True. But you could also say that better quality ingredients will not technically improve us as chefs. The end product, however, might be a lot tastier.


----------



## jaketanner

Lee Blaske said:


> Seems like some are breezing by the fact that this is an identified, world-renowned orchestra of people that play together regularly. It's not a dark date recording of available independent contractor musicians that could make it on a certain day (not that good results can't be produced with that). At the end of the day, the sound is the sound, but it sure sounds great to me. We've only heard two demos so far, and people have not had a lot of time to work with the final product. Too quick to be concluding the things it can't do.
> 
> What other full orchestra libraries are out there that are actual, standing organizations?


But the BBC is not performing the composition for us. They played one note, together as an ensemble. It’s not a phrase based library, nor did they say they cut the samples from live playing like Performance Samples does. So whether it’s the BBC or a bunch of top tier players, it’s still up to the composer to perform it.


----------



## Noeticus

In regards to the Spitfire BBC Orchestra, it is their capturing of sympathetic resonance from the instruments that are not playing that I am at present most interested in hearing.


----------



## jaketanner

I believe the low price is large in part due to not having to pay NI any licensing fees.


----------



## jaketanner

Noeticus said:


> In regards to the Spitfire BBC Orchestra, it is their capturing of sympathetic resonance from the instruments that are not playing that I am at present most interested in hearing.


But without actual bodies in those chairs, it’s still not a true representation of what the Mics would actually pic up.


----------



## coffeecomposer

Lee Blaske said:


> True. But you could also say that better quality ingredients will not technically improve us as chefs. The end product, however, might be a lot tastier.


Fair, but I guess I have to couple my previous statement with the following statement: the professional libraries now are all so good that any great composer who is skilled with midi will succeed in the ultimate goal which is to move people. I understand Spitfire's thinking with this product, but unless the actual end result is seriously better than their symphonic line (doubtful), I personally wouldn't jump on it. Of course, if one has the dough to blow, then by all means. 

I do believe that if this truly is a comprehensive, pro library for under $800, it will absolutely dominate the market for the foreseeable future. As someone who already owns the symphonic series + percussion + harp + orchestral grand, I'm not so quick to hop on board, but were I just getting into the game while this thing is coming out you could be 100% sure I'd pick it over SSO, given it truly is a serious-ass library.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Lovely event, thanks Spitfire for hosting, had a great chat with Christian and then off to the pub with some fellow composers to get drunk afterwards, discuss the new library and do some networking. Seems like most people had this announcement figured out, had many BBC Orchestra guesses and all-in-one guesses.


----------



## DerGeist

AndyP said:


> If I choose this lib I will download it. SSDs are not so expensive and I can decide how I want to integrate them.
> Actually, my needs for the offered instruments are covered as far as possible. VSL, EW, and various Strings and Brass libs. Nucleus is already in the pipeline, and so on. So you can do the same with a little more effort.
> There is no instrument included that I don't have in good or very good quality.
> The only advantage I see is that it is a compact thing as a whole orchestra. It just fits together as it looks without you having to screw around a lot.
> 
> At the moment I only see VSL and OT as competitors, and the bottom line is that the alternatives cost more. Maybe Iconica, but that didn't convince me about the dynamic range. And SF is competing with itself. It will be interesting to see how and whether the market reacts to this.
> 
> On my shopping list are actually quite other instruments, such as solo strings and ethnic instruments, also Spaces II. On the other hand, the entry-level price for a very good sounding and largely complete orchestra of this quality is extraordinarily good.
> 
> But in the end I can only decide when all the facts are on the table. 750€ + extra ssd are also money.
> Here I feel a little like with OT and the Arks, of which I actually only find Ark 3 interesting. If I had less librarys to cover the needs already it would be much easier for me to jump on the train, for OT as well as SF.
> 
> But maybe the details that convince me will come and there is still a lot of time to decide.
> 
> At the end there is another orchestra library, which raises the bar a little bit (maybe more), but we don't know exactly yet.


You make a good point regarding VSL and OT costing more. S


NoamL said:


> I agree @justthere & @Robin Hoffmann.
> 
> This could be a competitor to SSS/CS/EWHO etc or it could be more like a really souped up, amazing, 2019 version of EWQLSO (and in the process blow BOI out of the water hahaha). *Neither of those products would be a disappointment, to be clear*. It's just that most working composers have lots of deep sampled orchestral sections already.
> 
> Right now in my mind there are more data points pointing towards it being Spitfire's version of EWQLSO. The price for one thing - as you pointed out it boils down to less than $250 per orchestral section. The RAM loads are very reasonable, you won't need a networked VEPro computer if you don't load large amounts of mics. The true sample size is 1400gb, but divide it by 20 (signals) and then there are 55 different instruments so....
> 
> On the other hand, the data points that lean towards *"true deep sampled battleship library" *are the involvement of the BBC, the enormous array of mics, the futureproofing with Atmos, and the fact that this is a developer that has sampled an entire orchestral lineup TWICE (BML and then Studio Series) and are now going back to the well a third time with all the lessons they've learned.


Its useful to remember that EWQLSO is still perfectly usable. Its not my go to but there are some patches in there that are still pretty amazing.


----------



## CT

NoamL said:


> The following articulations were visible during the keynote. No guarantee that this is a complete list naturally.
> 
> Several *Brass *- Legato, Long Cuivre, Long Flutter, Long Sfz, Long (Sustain?), Multitongue, Stacatissimo, Marcato
> 
> *Celli* - Legato, Long Con sord, Long Flautando, Long Harmonics, Long Marcato Attack, Long Sul Ponticello, Long Sul Tasto, Long Sustain
> 
> EDIT: there's even more UI glimpses on the Spitfire site. So yeah Legatos for every 33 instruments, and lots of long and short variety notes.



It looks like they probably followed the same articulation setup that they used for the Studio series, which was similar to the Symphonic list with a few more added in. I doubt many of us will be wanting for this or that articulation, if nothing else.


----------



## CT

robgb said:


> this demo sounded pretty fucking realistic to me.



Agreed. All due respect to the fine people of VI-Control, but it was in a very different league than anything I've ever heard here.


----------



## AllanH

I'm looking forward to seeing the full articulation list. The Andy B demo was very clear and resonant at the same time without a lot of room-verb. Fascinating ... and a marked improvement over Air Hall (imo). I am definitely looking forward to the details.


----------



## coffeecomposer

Can I just get something off my OCD chest? Their symphonic line is marketed separately from their percussion, so it looks bad in Kontakt were one to follow proper winds/brass/percussion/strings score order in Kontakt's library list. 

And now this:





I'm sorry this just bugs me horribly.


----------



## NoamL

Noeticus said:


> In regards to the Spitfire BBC Orchestra, it is their capturing of sympathetic resonance from the instruments that are not playing that I am at present most interested in hearing.



They're not capturing resonance between instruments. What they're capturing is sound bleed (or as the Spitfire folks call it sound spill). Imagine you have a real live orchestral session and for some reason you want to turn up the cello spot. So you do, but the cello spot captures more than just the cello section, it also faintly records the violas, basses, trumpet, trombones, timpani... - everyone on that side of the stage - and these instruments sound different because they're NOT recording into their respective spot mics, nor into the Decca tree, but into the cello spot (from however far away they are from that mic, naturally). Thus when you turn up the cello spot you are adding some of that signal. Whereas when you turn up a cello spot in a VI session you are turning up just the isolated sound of the cellos because nobody else is playing.

Now let's imagine that you have a session of VI recordings and you are setting up a mic mix "as intended," for example you build your woodwind sound by using the woodwind section mic + the Decca tree + the hall surrounds, and you build your trumpet sound out of the brass section mic + the Decca Tree + the hall surrounds. In this instance, the brass will sound more realistic if you add a bit of the woodwind section mic to your brass - even though that section mic was not intended to record the trumpets, nor even aimed at them, but if you have a live recording session, you will hear at least a little of the trumpets in the woodwind section mic. This was John Powell's point about "recording the mics that aren't being played into" or however Paul T. put it 

If you have a recording setup with no section/spot mics at all, for example you are recording an orchestra with just the Decca tree and some ambient mics, then there is no sound bleed/sound spill; the phenomenon happens when you have a mic aimed at just part of the orchestra that is still recording the rest because mic/sound isolation can't be perfect.



DerGeist said:


> Its useful to remember that EWQLSO is still perfectly usable. Its not my go to but there are some patches in there that are still pretty amazing.



Yep especially some of the percussion.


----------



## Noeticus

NoamL said:


> They're not capturing resonance between instruments. What they're capturing is sound bleed (or as the Spitfire folks call it sound spill). Imagine you have a real live orchestral session and for some reason you want to turn up the cello spot. So you do, but the cello spot captures more than just the cello section, it also faintly records the violas, basses, trumpet, trombones, timpani... - everyone on that side of the stage - and these instruments sound different because they're NOT recording into their respective spot mics, nor into the Decca tree, but into the cello spot (from however far away they are from that mic, naturally). Thus when you turn up the cello spot you are adding some of that signal. Whereas when you turn up a cello spot in a VI session you are turning up just the isolated sound of the cellos because nobody else is playing.
> 
> Now let's imagine that you have a session of VI recordings and you are setting up a mic mix "as intended," for example you build your woodwind sound by using the woodwind section mic + the Decca tree + the hall surrounds, and you build your trumpet sound out of the brass section mic + the Decca Tree + the hall surrounds. In this instance, the brass will sound more realistic if you add a bit of the woodwind section mic to your brass - even though that section mic was not intended to record the trumpets, nor even aimed at them, but if you have a live recording session, you will hear at least a little of the trumpets in the woodwind section mic. This was John Powell's point about "recording the mics that aren't being played into" or however Paul T. put it
> 
> If you have a recording setup with no section/spot mics at all, for example you are recording an orchestra with just the Decca tree and some ambient mics, then there is no sound bleed/sound spill; the phenomenon happens when you have a mic aimed at just part of the orchestra that is still recording the rest because mic/sound isolation can't be perfect.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep especially some of the percussion.


Hello Noam,

Thanks for this. I guess my dream of a library that captures sympathetic resonance will have to wait, as I misinterpreted the spill comments.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

I was hoping for a hardware merger

Spitfire Audio/Behringer

One can dream

Looks like i'll be getting those Bare Knuckle Warpigs


----------



## Noeticus

On second thought... In the Spitfire Keynote video Paul mentions that with a flute solo you could access the mics from the other instruments not being played, so wouldn't that mean that the mic would pick up sympathetic resonance from the instrument near the mic that is not being played, but is affected by the flute via sympathetic resonance??? Obviously you would still hear the flute as well. If the player AND their instrument are not there then obliviously there would be no sympathetic resonance.


----------



## TomaeusD

Sounds stellar to me and is a killer deal for someone who has not yet invested in Spitfire yet.



Noeticus said:


> On second thought... In the Spitfire Keynote video Paul mentions that with a flute solo you could access the mics from the other instrumnets not being played, so wouldn't that mean that the mic would pick up sympathetic resonance from the instrment near the mic that is not being played, but is affected by the flute via sympathetic resonance??? Obviously you would still hear the flute as well.



I'm not sure it works that way, since there are no other sounds to resonate with, or at least the engine would have no idea without any other samples being played. In this case it has to be in isolation with whatever instrument is playing, and the other microphones are "borrowing" from that sound source. But I could be misunderstanding how sympathetic resonance really works. I think the reason it can be sampled in something like a piano is because each note is easily determined and never changes.


----------



## justthere

I doubt that they had all the other players sitting there quietly while they were recording French Horn shorts. You have possibilities - either you are hearing a recording of the selected instrument also from the perspective of other mics, or you are hearing the other instruments you are using from the point of view of the selected instrument mic. Since they all seem to share a sample pool in RAM, each instrument could be aware of the others present. It sounds like a massive voice count to me. 



TomaeusD said:


> Sounds stellar to me and is a killer deal for someone who has not yet invested in Spitfire yet.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure it works that way, since there are no other sounds to resonate with, or at least the engine would have no idea without any other samples being played. In this case it has to be in isolation with whatever instrument is playing, and the other microphones are "borrowing" from that sound source. But I could be misunderstanding how sympathetic resonance really works. I think the reason it can be sampled in something like a piano is because each note is easily determined and never changes.


----------



## CT

My Wish List is suddenly much smaller, and cheaper.


----------



## constaneum

how's the performance of SA's own player? Is it better than Kontakt ?


----------



## erica-grace

constaneum said:


> how's the performance of SA's own player? Is it better than Kontakt ?



If we can't get inside the instrument to edit the patches, then it is in no way better than Kontakt*, it is, then inferior.

If, however, we can, than it might be! 



*Not talking the player


----------



## jononotbono

Just watched the keynote. Sounds and looks so good! Very excited about this. Atmos! So good! And the bleed mics! Brilliant!


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

jononotbono said:


> Just watched the keynote. Sounds and looks so good! Very excited about this. Atmos! So good! And the bleed mics! Brilliant!




Atmos = significant


----------



## jononotbono

Zoot_Rollo said:


> Atmos = significant



I work in an Atmos studio so I agree.


----------



## 0cme

Love the sound. I really want to see an articulation list, and hope the range on the instruments is truly full (going up 2 octaves on the e string on the violins, etc.)


----------



## Mason

I’m impressed but also a bit ambivalent. Since BBC is the main point here and the brand they are selling, there’s a chance people will start thinking they can now make music that sounds as good as the BBC orchestra but it still requires a lot of orchestration and programming skills. Just like the HZ piano doesn’t make you a better pianist or the Whitacre library a better choral writer. 

I hope it’s great and look forward to more demos, but it isn’t necessarily better than any other library just because it’s the BBC.


----------



## NYC Composer

41 pages to go.

Btw-repeat after me...”I am not Andy Blaney. I am NOT Andy Blaney.”


----------



## Geoff Grace

coffeecomposer said:


> Lee Blaske said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> coffeecomposer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Friendly reminder: Shiny new libraries will not improve us as composers. Don't fall for the trick.
> 
> 
> 
> True. But you could also say that better quality ingredients will not technically improve us as chefs. The end product, however, might be a lot tastier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fair, but I guess I have to couple my previous statement with the following statement: the professional libraries now are all so good that any great composer who is skilled with midi will succeed in the ultimate goal which is to move people. I understand Spitfire's thinking with this product, but unless the actual end result is seriously better than their symphonic line (doubtful), I personally wouldn't jump on it. Of course, if one has the dough to blow, then by all means.
> 
> I do believe that if this truly is a comprehensive, pro library for under $800, it will absolutely dominate the market for the foreseeable future. As someone who already owns the symphonic series + percussion + harp + orchestral grand, I'm not so quick to hop on board, but were I just getting into the game while this thing is coming out you could be 100% sure I'd pick it over SSO, given it truly is a serious-ass library.
Click to expand...

I think we're talking bout the law of diminishing returns.

It gets harder to justify buying yet another orchestral library for those of us who already have a number of them. Nonetheless, there is a marginal benefit in adding things that are special in new ways.

I agree that BBC Symphony Orchestra could well be a no-brainer for someone jumping into the game now, but does it offer even $750 worth of improvement when I already have a lot of orchestral libraries? The answer to that does require a bit of thinking.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## jbuhler

Geoff Grace said:


> I think we're talking bout the law of diminishing returns.
> 
> It gets harder to justify buying yet another orchestral library for those of us who already have a number of them. Nonetheless, there is a marginal benefit in adding things that are special in new ways.
> 
> I agree that BBC Symphony Orchestra could well be a no-brainer for someone jumping into the game now, but does it offer even $750 worth of improvement when I already have a lot of orchestral libraries? The answer to that does require a bit of thinking.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


I don't think we'll be able to answer this question until SF releases walkthroughs and more demos.


----------



## X-Bassist

TomaeusD said:


> Sounds stellar to me and is a killer deal for someone who has not yet invested in Spitfire yet.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure it works that way, since there are no other sounds to resonate with, or at least the engine would have no idea without any other samples being played. In this case it has to be in isolation with whatever instrument is playing, and the other microphones are "borrowing" from that sound source. But I could be misunderstanding how sympathetic resonance really works. I think the reason it can be sampled in something like a piano is because each note is easily determined and never changes.


There are simply spill mic mixes on each instrument (looks like 3 channels, so perhaps a mic for each section you are not in- so a percussion instrument might have a string, brass, and woodwind spill channels). Perhaps each is a mox of that sections spill mics. So it’s not a million voices, just a few extra mic mixes.

And is it less CPU intensive than Kontakt? Good question. It has the potential to be since it doesn’t need the extra fx in Kontakt and scripting overhead. But it may take them a while to debug the engine/library. The intro is tempting.


----------



## chocobitz825

jaketanner said:


> I'm with you about the demo..was not good at all. Totally unfocused and crammed. Didn't let anything shine through, and very unbalanced, yes. My biggest excitement with this, is the bleed mics...I create that with careful reverb placements and lots of bussing...but it's a pain, and of course not true to the actual sound. SO I'm glad they decided to use those mics, but still did it wrong. they needed to FILL those empty seats with bodies, not leave them empty and just turn the mics on...maybe next time.



I’m very glad to hear someone else notice this flaw of libraries. I’ve also simulated this process with bussing and it always makes a significant difference but is not natural. I think most ensembles can survive with current methods but solo strings and quartets sound so thin if people don’t try to compensate for mic bleed.


----------



## ism

jaketanner said:


> they needed to FILL those empty seats with bodies, not leave them empty and just turn the mics on...maybe next time




Do you really think that would make a perceptible difference over and above the 80 mic setup?


----------



## constaneum

I wonder will we be able to split out the samples across multiple drives? like brass on drive A, strings on drive B, Woodwinds on drive C and percussions on drive D?


----------



## NYC Composer

I would gladly pay less on Tuesday for three mic positions today.


----------



## TomaeusD

@X-Bassist Right, those mixes are for each instrument/section in isolation, not related to sympathetic resonance which is what Noeticus was asking about - that would require insane amounts of recording and programming, I believe. But having access to mic bleed in a mix is a fantastic feature.

@justthere You don't think they recorded the articulations separately for each section or solo instrument? If you had everyone playing at once, wouldn't you have unwanted bleed without control in a number of the mics?


----------



## ProfoundSilence

coffeecomposer said:


> Can I just get something off my OCD chest? Their symphonic line is marketed separately from their percussion, so it looks bad in Kontakt were one to follow proper winds/brass/percussion/strings score order in Kontakt's library list.
> 
> And now this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry this just bugs me horribly.


 Not to insult them, but the bulk of SFA public figures seem to be into keyboard music, rather than traditional orchestration. 

At this point, it's not a surprise at all - since when you see them use it, it'll probably be "this keyboard patch adds a little movement here" way of thinking. This new generation of zimmer inspired composers probably don't care either, and if you think about order of importance to that crowd - imagine how less interesting it seems to them if it's 

"Woodwinds! Brass! Percussion! Strings!"

they'll probably think the strings are weak, or an afterthought... 

That said, I applaud the more traditional orchestration sizes, however I'll wait to see if this library has all the common sense articulations before I investigate further. Given a release of a string library without staccato samples - and another string library that cost similar amounts that shipped without functioning legato and spotty articulations, That's going to be the focus here. 

And considering just how big my berlin series sample pools are, compared to the space they take up - and the microphones, 600 gb for 20 mics is quite slim for an entire orchestra. That's about 30 gb per microphone, and I'd think even EWQL HWO gold takes up more than 30 gb(I don't have it, so i can't tell you). This means less than 1 gb per instrument per microphone worth of sample content. 

Berlin strings(Core) for instance has about 8 gb per instrument/per microphone. (160 gb/almost entire 4 microphones = 40 gb / 5 instruments = 8gb each)

Spitfire Chamber strings has about 5g sample content per instrument per microphone (75 gb /3 mics/5 instruments)


It does seem like a really good(and good sounding) starter library, but unless they have some insane harmonic resampling algorithm under the hood - this seems like it's going to be slim on actual sampled round robins/articulations. This is, however a MUCH better starting point for new composers than paying 1,000$ for komplete.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Life is good, and it keeps getting better!

Seeing as to how Paul mentioned using BBC SO to study Debussy, he might want to look into releasing some additional expansion for divisi strings. Otherwise, some of these string counts could get out of control, like this measure in Debussy's Nocturnes:






Mocked up with BBC SO's string count would be
16 + 16 + 16 + 16 + 14 + 14 + 14 + 12 + 12 + 12 + 10 + 10 + 8 + 8 = *178 Strings*


----------



## synthetic

I like the sound of this library, Kinda has that mostly-dry "Wiliams at Anvil Studios" sound. I just played "Desert Chase" from Raiders and and "TIE Fighter Attack" from Star Wars and it's not a million miles away (though much narrower mix?) Not so dry to sound artificial, but not so wet that you can't play 16th notes like some of their Air libraries. And Christian's demo shows it can sound modern, too.

I'll reserve judgement for the walkthrough video. But the price is pretty great too, assuming they've covered the basics. Can their VI host do multitimbral or are you expected to have one instance per channel? Trying to imagine how this would look in VE Pro.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Daniel James said:


> ....if i'm doing a intimate indie film I can load up my chamber


bruhhh "Daniel James trying out different plugins [S*XTAPE XXX iCloud LEAKED NSFW]"

I guess that's one way to get famous in this saturated industry


----------



## Rey

constaneum said:


> how's the performance of SA's own player? Is it better than Kontakt ?


This is one reason I’m holding back. The player is ok but the spitfire app might be a bit problematic, hence affecting the player, example I get a lot of authorisation and reauthorisation problem from time to time. Problem for example I already have hz strings, one month later somehow the spitfire audio app detect it as not installed, and now an install button pop up and I have to either reinstall or relocate the library and reauthorise it. Reauthorization has limits. Like 3. After u used up 3 they always limit you to one authorisation to protect you from hackers. One month or few weeks later problem occurs again and now I you cannot repair because you run out of authorisation. Plz contact spitfire support has been like 4-5 times for me now. for such a simple problem of authorisation.

For Kontakt it was so easy and no authorisation nonsense I have to deal with. Too bad


----------



## reimerpdx

ProfoundSilence said:


> Not to insult them, but the bulk of SFA public figures seem to be into keyboard music, rather than traditional orchestration.
> 
> At this point, it's not a surprise at all - since when you see them use it, it'll probably be "this keyboard patch adds a little movement here" way of thinking. This new generation of zimmer inspired composers probably don't care either, and if you think about order of importance to that crowd - imagine how less interesting it seems to them if it's
> 
> "Woodwinds! Brass! Percussion! Strings!"
> 
> they'll probably think the strings are weak, or an afterthought...
> 
> That said, I applaud the more traditional orchestration sizes, however I'll wait to see if this library has all the common sense articulations before I investigate further. Given a release of a string library without staccato samples - and another string library that cost similar amounts that shipped without functioning legato and spotty articulations, That's going to be the focus here.
> 
> And considering just how big my berlin series sample pools are, compared to the space they take up - and the microphones, 600 gb for 20 mics is quite slim for an entire orchestra. That's about 30 gb per microphone, and I'd think even EWQL HWO gold takes up more than 30 gb(I don't have it, so i can't tell you). This means less than 1 gb per instrument per microphone worth of sample content.
> 
> Berlin strings(Core) for instance has about 8 gb per instrument/per microphone. (160 gb/almost entire 4 microphones = 40 gb / 5 instruments = 8gb each)
> 
> Spitfire Chamber strings has about 5g sample content per instrument per microphone (75 gb /3 mics/5 instruments)
> 
> 
> It does seem like a really good(and good sounding) starter library, but unless they have some insane harmonic resampling algorithm under the hood - this seems like it's going to be slim on actual sampled round robins/articulations. This is, however a MUCH better starting point for new composers than paying 1,000$ for komplete.


They mentioned their new algorithm, which decreases the sample by 50%. Iirc.


----------



## reimerpdx

6GeLoENPIK09Pn said:


> Here's what sold it for me.
> 
> That screencap of the Andy Blaney demo where he's using the Jake Jackson mic mix - every single fader is at 0 untouched.
> 
> If this thing is really that plug and play then I will buy it without hesitation. I guess we'll have to wait and see.


The faders were at 0, but the midi cc’s were moving.


----------



## Robo Rivard

From what I understand, the BBC orchestra always recorded in the Maida Vale Studios, having developped their own signature sound. The orchestra is supposed to move to a new location, so their "sound" will be lost forever... This is Spitfire take at immortalizing this sound. Just imagine CineSamples recording in a different studio... I don't have an opinion about all this, but I do like what I'm hearing. I'm curious about the overall timbre at low velocity.


----------



## synthetic

ProfoundSilence said:


> imagine how less interesting it seems to them if it's "Woodwinds! Brass! Percussion! Strings!" they'll probably think the strings are weak, or an afterthought...



That's the answer. It's marketing. I wouldn't read too much into it. And honestly if I look at how much I've spent on libraries over the years, it's more or less in that order.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

reimerpdx said:


> They mentioned their new algorithm, which decreases the sample by 50%. Iirc.



there are 33 legato instruments, and 30 gb of content worth of articulations/round robins - even if you double that, it's still relatively low compared to a dedicated solution. This means tons of pitch shifting the same samples - and most articulations might not even have round robins, or there are only 1 or 2 "short" articulations with like 3 round robins.


----------



## constaneum

It's actually sad to hear but things need to pass on for better. It's great that SA took the approach to preserve the legendary sound before it's gone forever.


----------



## reimerpdx

ProfoundSilence said:


> there are 33 legato instruments, and 30 gb of content worth of articulations/round robins - even if you double that, it's still relatively low compared to a dedicated solution. This means tons of pitch shifting the same samples - and most articulations might not even have round robins, or there are only 1 or 2 "short" articulations with like 3 round robins.


Just double checked. The original sample size is 1.4 TB.


----------



## Fleer

Geoff Grace said:


> I think we're talking bout the law of diminishing returns.
> 
> It gets harder to justify buying yet another orchestral library for those of us who already have a number of them. Nonetheless, there is a marginal benefit in adding things that are special in new ways.
> 
> I agree that BBC Symphony Orchestra could well be a no-brainer for someone jumping into the game now, but does it offer even $750 worth of improvement when I already have a lot of orchestral libraries? The answer to that does require a bit of thinking.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


True, even if competitive, $750 is a lot of money. And with 20 mics those 600GB are not that ginormous when compared to the comparable size (680GB) of EW Hollywood Orchestra, yet with only 5 mics. 
As such, if EWHO would have 20 mics, its (compressed) size would add up to almost 3TB. 
I don’t think a higher efficiency of any new sampling process could bridge that gap.


----------



## TomaeusD

I'd hate for this to be the first thing you see after stumbling on the site:





October 24th sure arrived fast.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

reimerpdx said:


> Just double checked. The original sample size is 1.4 TB.




??????? the math is the exact same, like I said, even if you doubled it - it's only like 1.5 gb worth of sample material for an entire instrument worth of articulations.

As someone else stated - if EWQL HWO had 20 mics it would be over 3TB. if they also had spitfires compression it would be 6 TB to compare to the 1.4 tb uncompressed. 

Not saying it's not a lot of content - but it's divided up into so many instruments that articulations/layers/round robins will suffer


----------



## Robo Rivard

About the GUI: stop wasting space! Make the fonts 2-3 times bigger!!


----------



## 667

jaketanner said:


> But without actual bodies in those chairs, it’s still not a true representation of what the Mics would actually pic up.


Spitfire does indeed use use mass to simulate bodies. They do it in the seats at Air. I don't know first hand whether they did it here, in the orchestra seats, for players not present. But would not surprise me-- they've known and cared about this for a long time now.


----------



## robgb

Daniel James said:


> For example I tend to work in multitimbral setups with custom multis in Kontakt.


I do the same. I also extensively tweak some libraries via Kontakt's back end. The move away from Kontakt is not a welcome one for me. I've never been a fan of romplers.


----------



## NoamL

you guys are comparing apples to oranges. Uncompressed sample size vs compressed vs Spitfire's new compression algorithm. Best to not assume and just wait for the actual specs that matter - number of articulations, round robins & dynamic layers. We'll probably get more info before another week.


----------



## JeffvR

NoamL said:


> you guys are comparing apples to oranges. Uncompressed sample size vs compressed vs Spitfire's new compression algorithm. Best to not assume and just wait for the actual specs that matter - number of articulations, round robins & dynamic layers. We'll probably get more info before another week.


If you compare apples to apples, the uncompressed size of the data, the complete orchestra will be 70GB/mic. Spitfire Chamber Strings is 35GB/mic. So maybe they've sampled in minor thirds, left out dynamic layers, left out round robins, articulations or all of it.


----------



## Zedcars

jaketanner said:


> But without actual bodies in those chairs, it’s still not a true representation of what the Mics would actually pic up.


From a noise reduction perspective, extra people in the room would add a lot of extra noise just by breathing no matter how quiet they all tried to be. Their best bet is to use dummies filled with water or something to simulate the denseness, absorption and reflective qualities of a real person. It would also cost a lot less than a real person. Maybe they could make a deal with the Church of England to supply cadavers!


----------



## Zero&One

Zedcars said:


> Their best bet is to use dummies filled with water or something to simulate the denseness, absorption and reflective qualities of a real person. It would also cost a lot less than a real person.



There's a few people in my town fit this description perfectly! 
Just give them a train ticket to London, 4 cans of Stella and 20 Benson & Hedges and you have them for a full day recording.


----------



## Zedcars

James H said:


> There's a few people in my town fit this description perfectly!
> Just give them a train ticket to London, 4 cans of Stella and 20 Benson & Hedges and you have them for a full day recording.


I can just imagine a bunch of comatose drunks all sitting there stinking of piss while the BBC SO and Spitfire painstakingly record each sample. At least they’d be contributing something positive to society.


----------



## Zedcars

667 said:


> Spitfire does indeed use use mass to simulate bodies. They do it in the seats at Air. I don't know first hand whether they did it here, in the orchestra seats, for players not present. But would not surprise me-- they've known and cared about this for a long time now.


Interesting. I’d not seen your post until after I wrote mine above. And I was only being semi-serious.


----------



## Saxer

30% sample space of SSO is probably the Air reverb ringing out. No wonder BBC needs less RAM.


----------



## axb312

Spitfire chamber strings - 107 GB of samples with 3 mics or around 35 GB per mic.

Here, we have about 70 GB per mic for four sections.

So, no, I'm not expecting it to be as detailed as the symphonic series or even the cinematic studio series.


----------



## Rey

constaneum said:


> I wonder will we be able to split out the samples across multiple drives? like brass on drive A, strings on drive B, Woodwinds on drive C and percussions on drive D?


That and split of sections for purchase would help a lot those who don’t need full orchestra and save some bucks


----------



## CT

axb312 said:


> Spitfire chamber strings - 107 GB of samples with 3 mics or around 35 GB per mic.
> 
> Here, we have about 70 GB per mic for four sections.
> 
> So, no, I'm not expecting it to be as detailed as the symphonic series or even the cinematic studio series.



I don't know, given the much shorter releases that these samples probably have compared to AIR, and the fact that the strings are always the most sizable section, the numbers all seem more or less right to me.

Even if the strings take up the same 35 GB as SCS, another 35 for the other three sections, including the percussion which has no sustains outside of rolls, is reasonable.

The SSO winds, brass, and percussion come out to about 55 GB total per compressed mic position. Since BBCSO has a slightly smaller instrument selection, and Maida Vale is much less reverberant, yeah, it all squares away pretty sensibly, unless my late night math is off.


----------



## constaneum

the leader of each strings section is basically first chair right ?


----------



## ProfoundSilence

NoamL said:


> you guys are comparing apples to oranges. Uncompressed sample size vs compressed vs Spitfire's new compression algorithm. Best to not assume and just wait for the actual specs that matter - number of articulations, round robins & dynamic layers. We'll probably get more info before another week.




I'm not trying to say it's bad - only that people should be realistic. Compare the amount of sample depth of their previous libraries - and the amount of time it took to edit each sample. No real reason to think this wont be 1,000$ worth of sample editing. How much this impacts it remains to be scene, but spitfire has never really been known for clever scripting


----------



## Zedcars

I think we have to remember that there will be more on the way next year probably in the way of a “pro” version with divisi sections, extended techniques etc. They have said themselves there will be more, but no specifics yet. While it may not be as fully fledged as I’d like, I know this was a massive undertaking which takes a lot of time to record and edit. No way they can cover every nuance in the first release of a new library like this.


----------



## lgmcben

Just managed to find time to watch the keynote. 

Are you serious? 

I'm just starting out. Having my eyes on something like Berlin Inspire. I know it's a different kind of products and can't be directly compared but...

You're telling me you sell this beast for cheaper than Berlin Inspire 1 + 2 ?? Give my credit card back you beautiful bastards.


----------



## KEM

Zedcars said:


> I think we have to remember that there will be more on the way next year probably in the way of a “pro” version with divisi sections, extended techniques etc. They have said themselves there will be more, but no specifics yet. While it may not be as fully fledged as I’d like, I know this was a massive undertaking which takes a lot of time to record and edit. No way they can cover every nuance in the first release of a new library like this.



But when will we get the Pro versions of the SSS line...


----------



## ProfoundSilence

lgmcben said:


> Just managed to find time to watch the keynote.
> 
> Are you serious?
> 
> I'm just starting out. Having my eyes on something like Berlin Inspire. I know it's a different kind of products and can't be directly compared but...
> 
> You're telling me you sell this beast for cheaper than Berlin Inspire 1 + 2 ?? Give my credit card back you beautiful bastards.


inspire is a lightweight sketch library designed to work on systems with 8 gb of ram.


----------



## KEM

I noticed while skimming through the keynote that some of the patches had keyswitches? Is this something that we can program ourselves in the SF Player? If so I am most certainly in!!


----------



## Zedcars

JeffvR said:


> If you compare apples to apples, the uncompressed size of the data, the complete orchestra will be 70GB/mic. Spitfire Chamber Strings is 35GB/mic. So maybe they've sampled in minor thirds, left out dynamic layers, left out round robins, articulations or all of it.


They haven’t omitted RR as it’s written right there on the GUI.


----------



## JeffvR

miket said:


> I don't know, given the much shorter releases that these samples probably have compared to AIR, and the fact that the strings are always the most sizable section, the numbers all seem more or less right to me.
> 
> Even if the strings take up the same 35 GB as SCS, another 35 for the other three sections, including the percussion which has no sustains outside of rolls, is reasonable.
> 
> The SSO winds, brass, and percussion come out to about 55 GB total per compressed mic position. Since BBCSO has a slightly smaller instrument selection, and Maida Vale is much less reverberant, yeah, it all squares away pretty sensibly, unless my late night math is off.



Ok let's do some real math. The BBC orchestra includes first chairs for strings and a harp. Let's look at the uncompressed data, that's what you get in the end and a fair comparison.

BBC = 1,4 tb across 20 mics = 70 GB/mic

Spitfire Symphonic Strings = 147,6 GB across 3 mics = 49,2 GB/mic
Spitfire Solo Strings = 66,2 GB across 3 mics = 22,06 GB/mic
Spitfire Symphonic Brass = 96,7 GB across 3 mics = 32,23 GB/mic
Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds = 103,4 GB across 3 mics = 34,47 GB/mic
Spitfire Percussion = 55,8 GB across 3 mics = 18,6 GB/mic
Spitfire Harp = 12,8 GB across 3 mics = 4,27 GB/mic

Makes a total of 160,8 GB/mic. So there's almost 2,5 times more data within the AIR version.


----------



## Francis Bourre

KEM said:


> Is this something that we can program ourselves in the SF Player?


Yes, check the UI screenshots on the website.


----------



## Kurosawa

Oh this is truly amazing. I'm curious for future walkthroughs and demos.

If I had known that this is coming, I would have been more cautious with my money last year.. Maybe next year then..


----------



## KEM

Francis Bourre said:


> Yes, check the UI screenshots on the website.



Sweet! That definitely has me excited, I think if they can keep the resource usage low then I personally won't miss Kontakt that much.


----------



## Zedcars

KEM said:


> But when will we get the Pro versions of the SSS line...


I know I’m missing something. I thought there was a Pro version.








Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Studio Strings Professional







www.spitfireaudio.com




Are you saying it’s not really Pro enough? Sorry to be so dense.

EDIT: It’s ok, I worked it out. You’re talking about the Spitfire Symphonic Strings right? I’m still trying to get up to speed on these confusing abbreviations.


----------



## KEM

Zedcars said:


> I know I’m missing something. I thought there was a Pro version.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Studio Strings Professional
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spitfireaudio.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying it’s not really Pro enough? Sorry to be so dense.
> 
> EDIT: It’s ok, I worked it out. You’re talking about the Spitfire Symphonic Strings right? I’m still trying to get up to speed on these confusing abbreviations.



Yeah I was referring to the Symphonic Series (can't fault you on the confusion as I fall to it myself sometimes), I think most people agree that it's in need of an update, there's been complaints about the lack of proper shorts in the strings for awhile now among other things, I still love the product and it's my main writing/arranging library in final mixes but whenever I have a fast ostinato or runs I have to use the Albion One shorts to get them tight and clean. I'm hoping this BBC library has the breadth of articulations to eliminate the need to grab other libraries as I prefer using one library for the sake of cohesion.


----------



## lgmcben

Lee Blaske said:


> Seems like some are breezing by the fact that this is an identified, world-renowned orchestra of people that play together regularly. It's not a dark date recording of available independent contractor musicians that could make it on a certain day (not that good results can't be produced with that). At the end of the day, the sound is the sound, but it sure sounds great to me. We've only heard two demos so far, and people have not had a lot of time to work with the final product. Too quick to be concluding the things it can't do.
> 
> What other full orchestra libraries are out there that are actual, standing organizations?


Now that you said this. I was under an automatic assumption that OT Berlin series was performed by Berliner Symphoniker? Seems I was wrong.


----------



## LudovicVDP

And is this beautiful product going to be included in their new subscription model??
(We still on that joke, right?)



Joke aside: Looks very nice. 
No brainer if you start. Intro price is really good (except for the SSD !). 
Or if buying sample libraries is part of your daily life.

But I think I'm not at a place where I can afford this. I can't spend 1K that easily and I already have some strings, brass, woodwinds and percs libraries. There are still a few other things on my to-buy list before I want to spend 1K on instruments I already have (yeah, I know, one can't have too many libraries ^^)

And I'm curious to see if this is really a game changing library or if it will just be yet another orchestral library. After all, it's not like beautiful music didn't exist before that. I must say, with all that hype, I was expecting something else than "just" a library.


Don't get me wrong: I'd pre-order it today if I could. But I can't. So I'm trying to convince myself not to be too sad :-D


----------



## tomosane




----------



## redlester

Not just Spitfire this also applies to Apple and probably others, but am not keen on this new trend of big fanfare presentations for something that’s not actually ready to buy yet. Just wait until the thing is ready then do it.


----------



## colony nofi

JeffvR said:


> Ok let's do some real math. The BBC orchestra includes first chairs for strings and a harp. Let's look at the uncompressed data, that's what you get in the end and a fair comparison.
> 
> BBC = 1,4 tb across 20 mics = 70 GB/mic
> 
> Spitfire Symphonic Strings = 147,6 GB across 3 mics = 49,2 GB/mic
> Spitfire Solo Strings = 66,2 GB across 3 mics = 22,06 GB/mic
> Spitfire Symphonic Brass = 96,7 GB across 3 mics = 32,23 GB/mic
> Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds = 103,4 GB across 3 mics = 34,47 GB/mic
> Spitfire Percussion = 55,8 GB across 3 mics = 18,6 GB/mic
> Spitfire Harp = 12,8 GB across 3 mics = 4,27 GB/mic
> 
> Makes a total of 160,8 GB/mic. So there's almost 2,5 times more data within the AIR version.


If we're doing the math...
I think we need to wait a little longer to truly work this out.

But a few things. The symphonic strings = 6 mics - 3xstereo pairs. 
There doesn't seem to be 20 mics for this new library either.
From the website:

Mono
Close
Tree
Out
Ambient
Balcony
Leader
Stereo
Mids
Sides
Close Wide Pan
5 Spill Mics
Thats 26...

*MIXES*

Mix 1 (Full)
Mix 2 (Jake Jackson)
Atmos (2 — front & rear)
Thats 8.
Maybe I'm missing something - but that is 34mics compared to 6 - which is quite different from 20 compared to 3. (more like 17 compared to 3 if we are talking stereo paths...so 15% less)

Unless I missed something in the keynote / website / the pages of discussion here.

The length of many of the articulations will be much less than air by nature of the studios. I wouldn't be surprised if in a lot of cases, that is a 33-50% saving.

We are speculating at this point, and I really don't feel like any of these kinds of discussions bring much to the table right now. Everyone's looking for a "gotcha" or a "this can't be any good for xxx reason". I get it. But at the same time its not terribly useful chat in an already crowded thread.

And @Daniel James : I feel you for your workflow. Are you in cubase?
I've started saving track archives (er, XML) for this purpose. Sure - its not as super clean as a multi in kontakt - but it ends up being almost as quick!


----------



## Zero&One

Thread has gone all maths on our ass.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

colony nofi said:


> If we're doing the math...
> I think we need to wait a little longer to truly work this out.
> 
> But a few things. The symphonic strings = 6 mics - 3xstereo pairs.
> There doesn't seem to be 20 mics for this new library either.
> From the website:
> 
> Mono
> Close
> Tree
> Out
> Ambient
> Balcony
> Leader
> Stereo
> Mids
> Sides
> Close Wide Pan
> 5 Spill Mics
> Thats 26...
> 
> *MIXES*
> 
> Mix 1 (Full)
> Mix 2 (Jake Jackson)
> Atmos (2 — front & rear)
> Thats 8.
> Maybe I'm missing something - but that is 34mics compared to 6 - which is quite different from 20 compared to 3. (more like 17 compared to 3 if we are talking stereo paths...so 15% less)
> 
> Unless I missed something in the keynote / website / the pages of discussion here.
> 
> The length of many of the articulations will be much less than air by nature of the studios. I wouldn't be surprised if in a lot of cases, that is a 33-50% saving.
> 
> We are speculating at this point, and I really don't feel like any of these kinds of discussions bring much to the table right now. Everyone's looking for a "gotcha" or a "this can't be any good for xxx reason". I get it. But at the same time its not terribly useful chat in an already crowded thread.
> 
> And @Daniel James : I feel you for your workflow. Are you in cubase?
> I've started saving track archives (er, XML) for this purpose. Sure - its not as super clean as a multi in kontakt - but it ends up being almost as quick!


how is it not useful? 

so people dont get their Hope's up and buy a significantly slimmed down all in 1 when they have a full set of dedicated libraries? 

Ark 1 for instance sounds great, but corners were cut everywhere across the board. That's the trade off with these all in 1 libraries, and there is 0 evidence to support the idea that this isn't going to suffer to some extent from the same drawbacks

look at all the people who bought LA modern percussion assuming it had all the percussion elements/round Robin's ect. 

how many people were angry when they got the piecemeal articulation mix and matching of the HZS, or though HZS would be big and epic and nasty with those 60 celli... 

it's literally the wrong kind of expectations that cause people to buy libraries they will regret, so it's worth figuring out who this is good for, and who its not

I mean SFA did release a library with the word professional without a staccato articulation, speculation is literally all we have to go by. Some people are going to buy it after Andy's demo and figure out if it was a good idea later l


----------



## Michael Antrum

James H said:


> Thread has gone all maths on our ass.


----------



## Michael Antrum

What I would like to know is when is the promised SSO update coming ?

When Spitfire had the close out sale last year on the expansions, we were told there would be an FOC upgrade to the SSO before the end of next year.

I don't see the point in spending this kind of money just yet when this upgrade '_should'_ be with us in a matter of months....

It's not as if I'm really needing a new orchestral library just now. I am, as I suspect many others here are, pretty well loaded up with libraries, and anything I buy now is more for giggles than any real need.

Although there has been absolutely no suggestion that this is the case, I would be very disappointed if the SSO upgrade does not come in a timely manner.

Having said that, if I were looking for a new library now, this would be top of the list....


----------



## jamwerks

Pretty sure The Andy B demo didn't use any external reverb, and it seems to sound like a large space but not that reverberant, which is exactly what I was hoping for. His string writing was very much "writing for real players" and not for samples (sustains), and the legato and shorts seemed to pull it off pretty convincingly. Pretty sure I'm hearing some "playable" patches (here's to hoping!), lots of legato lines end with pretty convincing shorts, etc.

Articulation wise, it'll probably be the usual set of SF arts.

The real quality test for me will be in the solo woodwinds and brass, if they are able to keep phasing to a minimum while cross-fading between the layers. Others (8Dio) are getting really good with this, hopefully SF is too!! Would be great if there were 4 or even 5 dynamic layers, but they might have just done 3.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Michael Antrum said:


>


Haha, yeah pretty much. So many unknown variables this far out. I see we’re at stage 2, aka “there must be something wrong with it!”

Bottom line is this library is a bit special and changes the game. Just look at the content for the price. Look at the expertise and experience of those involved. The mind boggles. I can’t wait to get my grubby hands all over it.

I can see the library being pigeonholed into a “starter band in the box” solution which would be grossly unfair. It’s waaay too advanced to be simply that. I’m also sure it will be vastly more capable then many of the composers who buy it..


----------



## colony nofi

ProfoundSilence said:


> how is it not useful?
> 
> so people dont get their Hope's up and buy a significantly slimmed down all in 1 when they have a full set of dedicated libraries?
> 
> Ark 1 for instance sounds great, but corners were cut everywhere across the board. That's the trade off with these all in 1 libraries, and there is 0 evidence to support the idea that this isn't going to suffer to some extent from the same drawbacks
> 
> look at all the people who bought LA modern percussion assuming it had all the percussion elements/round Robin's ect.
> 
> how many people were angry when they got the piecemeal articulation mix and matching of the HZS, or though HZS would be big and epic and nasty with those 60 celli...
> 
> it's literally the wrong kind of expectations that cause people to buy libraries they will regret, so it's worth figuring out who this is good for, and who its not
> 
> I mean SFA did release a library with the word professional without a staccato articulation, speculation is literally all we have to go by. Some people are going to buy it after Andy's demo and figure out if it was a good idea later l


because it is speculation at this point.
It is very possible that this is just as detailed as SSS or the like - and we've just got it wrong. In which case there's mis-information out there. 
We just don't know yet. 
So why not wait till we do?


----------



## KEM

Michael Antrum said:


> What I would like to know is when is the promised SSO update coming ?
> 
> When Spitfire had the close out sale last year on the expansions, we were told there would be an FOC upgrade to the SSO before the end of next year.
> 
> I don't see the point in spending this kind of money just yet when this upgrade '_should'_ be with us in a matter of months....
> 
> It's not as if I'm really needing a new orchestral library just now. I am, as I suspect many others here are, pretty well loaded up with libraries, and anything I buy now is more for giggles than any real need.
> 
> Although there has been absolutely no suggestion that this is the case, I would be very disappointed if the SSO upgrade does not come in a timely manner.
> 
> Having said that, if I were looking for a new library now, this would be top of the list....



Any word on what the SSO update will entail...?


----------



## jamwerks

All or almost all of their existing catalogue will probably be updated when ported to their new SF player, which seeing how advanced it looks, will probably be soon.

One thing I was hoping to see but didn't, the upcoming OT player will reportedly be able to use any combo of mic's you want, and funnel that into a unique stereo pair when processing. So you can have 4 mic positions open without the 4 x cpu required. Not sure how all that plays into ram usage. SF hasn't made any mention of this or similar...


----------



## KEM

jamwerks said:


> All or almost all of their existing catalogue will probably be updated when ported to their new SF player, which seeing how advanced it looks, will probably be soon.
> 
> One thing I was hoping to see but didn't, the upcoming OT player will reportedly be able to use any combo of mic's you want, and funnel that into a unique stereo pair when processing. So you can have 4 mic positions open without the 4 x cpu required. Not sure how all that plays into ram usage. SF hasn't made any mention of this or similar...




Very interesting, and it seems like the ability to program keyswitches will be pretty easy and intuitive, hopefully everything goes as planned.


----------



## redlester

KEM said:


> Any word on what the SSO update will entail...?



About 75 pages on here!


----------



## Sovereign

I downloaded the Admiral Benbow track and added some extra S7H reverb to it, sounds absolutely awesome.


----------



## redlester

jamwerks said:


> All or almost all of their existing catalogue will probably be updated when ported to their new SF player, which seeing how advanced it looks, will probably be soon.



From the BBC SO FAQ, issued last night:



> *DOES THIS MEAN YOU ARE NO LONGER RELEASING LIBRARIES IN KONTAKT?*
> No. We will still be making Kontakt libraries.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I also wonder what commercial imperative Spitfire would have moving across everything to the new player. I can't think of much.


----------



## Robin

Lee Blaske said:


> Seems like some are breezing by the fact that this is an identified, world-renowned orchestra of people that play together regularly. It's not a dark date recording of available independent contractor musicians that could make it on a certain day (not that good results can't be produced with that). At the end of the day, the sound is the sound, but it sure sounds great to me. We've only heard two demos so far, and people have not had a lot of time to work with the final product. Too quick to be concluding the things it can't do.
> 
> What other full orchestra libraries are out there that are actual, standing organizations?



I think the fact of this being a fixed ensemble that has been playing together for years is a little too overhyped here. Sure, you get consistency in sound by having the same player on every sample that is recorded. However, that has been done before (OT). 
The romantic idea that this library will be better because the ensemble has a history of playing together will in my opinion not bring any benefit to individual samples. The strength of an established ensemble lies in playing together and interacting with each other. This is where you get a benefit over session musicians that need to find their role on the spot. 
However this factor is ruled out by sampling them individually. So yeah, it's probably a nice marketing idea to imply that this might give you the edge over "session player" libraries, but I seriously doubt any advantage from this in this particular configuration...


----------



## Saxer

Robin said:


> I think the fact of this being a fixed ensemble that has been playing together for years is a little too overhyped here.


That's my opinion too. A lot (if not most) movie soundtracks are played by a pool of experienced session players instead of existing orchestras. Didn't hurt anyone.
What makes the library interesting for me is the shorter room and the meanwhile very experienced sampling team. I hope they use their knowledge wisely. And I like that there are no "chapters" of single sections etc. but just one sampling project for the whole thing. So the hope for a consistent complete orchestra library.


----------



## I like music

Robin said:


> I think the fact of this being a fixed ensemble that has been playing together for years is a little too overhyped here. Sure, you get consistency in sound by having the same player on every sample that is recorded. However, that has been done before (OT).
> The romantic idea that this library will be better because the ensemble has a history of playing together will in my opinion not bring any benefit to individual samples. The strength of an established ensemble lies in playing together and interacting with each other. This is where you get a benefit over session musicians that need to find their role on the spot.
> However this factor is ruled out by sampling them individually. So yeah, it's probably a nice marketing idea to imply that this might give you the edge over "session player" libraries, but I seriously doubt any advantage from this in this particular configuration...



Yeah, that one I don't quite buy either, since it isn't a whole performance that they're giving on the fly. 

What I _am_ interested in is to see if there is internal consistency between sections etc. because then you can that "one balanced room" sound hopefully, which would save those of us who aren't good mixers and matchers, a lot of time and tears. Given that I've never used a library like that, I have no idea if that is also some kind of a theoretical-romantic idea, but it is certainly appealing to me, given that literally every section on my computer, was sampled by a different company, in a different space, using different techniques.


----------



## chocobitz825

I like music said:


> Yeah, that one I don't quite buy either, since it isn't a whole performance that they're giving on the fly.
> 
> What I _am_ interested in is to see if there is internal consistency between sections etc. because then you can that "one balanced room" sound hopefully, which would save those of us who aren't good mixers and matchers, a lot of time and tears. Given that I've never used a library like that, I have no idea if that is also some kind of a theoretical-romantic idea, but it is certainly appealing to me, given that literally every section on my computer, was sampled by a different company, in a different space, using different techniques.



whatever the differences, they would be subtle. The fact that they've played together for a long time would at least imply that for something as simple as sampling, this group of performers were tighter and more in tune with each other than session musicians. Hardly a large difference, but it might show in the articulations how in sync they really are. I wouldn't say its groundbreaking or revolutionary, but perhaps the process of making this library felt significantly different to the team because of how tight the orchestra was, and they're riding that high.

still for me, ill pass on this. As others have said we already have so much and it's not quite clear yet what makes this that much different than what we have. That and I'm holding out for Aaron Venture strings.


----------



## Gerbil

So people paid to go and watch a product launch. Way out.

Based on the demos it sounds superb and I really like the overall concept. The problem is that I prefer to be able to get under the hood and tweak. There isn't a single Spitfire library I own where I haven't needed to do that. 

Maybe in the future when the flaws have been ironed out I'll bite as the price is very generous.


----------



## Robin

chocobitz825 said:


> The fact that they've played together for a long time would at least imply that for something as simple as sampling, this group of performers were tighter and more in tune with each other than session musicians.



Nothing that you don't get with good session musicians at the same level.


----------



## chocobitz825

Robin said:


> Nothing that you don't get with good session musicians at the same level.



mmm Again, I'm not saying its groundbreaking and sets it massively apart from sessions players. However, even on single notes and legato, or portamento movement, there are noticeable differences in players who know each other well. At least in my experience with randomly gathered session players vs. established teams/orchestras, the speed of the work, the accuracy of their timing and expression were all very different. I don't at all expect that to make this library sound drastically different, but to some that subtle difference may come through. It's not as great a selling point as spitfire makes it out to be, but I understand their excitement.


----------



## Zero&One

Robin said:


> Nothing that you don't get with good session musicians at the same level.



But are these session musicians at this level used in every other product? We know for a fact these guys are half decent.
If there was 2 versions available, I'd pick the BBC everyday no matter what anyone told me about the other guys.


----------



## Denkii

Alex Fraser said:


> I also wonder what commercial imperative Spitfire would have moving across everything to the new player. I can't think of much.


Saving licensing fees for their Kontakt Player libraries would be one.


----------



## jamwerks

An orchestra that plays together can perform music (phrases, expression, musicality, etc) better than just session players. In a sample library though, they're just performing isolated notes and/or transitions, and they're doing that alone (not with the other groups). And those players also play often in other halls, with different seating, with dozens of different conductors. So talking about any advantages is just marketing (that SF does know something about)!


----------



## Manaberry

Michael Antrum said:


> What I would like to know is when is the promised SSO update coming ?
> 
> When Spitfire had the close out sale last year on the expansions, we were told there would be an FOC upgrade to the SSO before the end of next year.
> 
> I don't see the point in spending this kind of money just yet when this upgrade '_should'_ be with us in a matter of months....
> 
> It's not as if I'm really needing a new orchestral library just now. I am, as I suspect many others here are, pretty well loaded up with libraries, and anything I buy now is more for giggles than any real need.
> 
> Although there has been absolutely no suggestion that this is the case, I would be very disappointed if the SSO upgrade does not come in a timely manner.
> 
> Having said that, if I were looking for a new library now, this would be top of the list....



Sadly it is not coming this year.

On SA website, there is the following note:



> *Note: Currently the additional microphones are only available in Chamber Strings Professional, with Symphonic Strings, Woodwinds and Brass Professional coming in 2020.*



A year ago, they told us SSO Pro would come in 2019. Now, it is coming in 2020. Looking forward to be in summer 2020 to see that it is actually coming in 2021.

Unless they are moving SSO to their new engine (and if it's the case, it would have been nice to get this information on the key note), I don't see why it takes so much time, and why they are so silent about that.


----------



## KEM

Manaberry said:


> Sadly it is not coming this year.
> 
> On SA website, there is the following note:
> 
> 
> 
> A year ago, they told us SSO Pro would come in 2019. Now, it is coming in 2020. Looking forward to be in summer 2020 to see that it is actually coming in 2021.
> 
> Unless they are moving SSO to their new engine (and if it's the case, it would have been nice to get this information on the key note), I don't see why it takes so much time, and why they are so silent about that.



Yeah but will we get proper shorts finally?!


----------



## axb312

colony nofi said:


> If we're doing the math...
> I think we need to wait a little longer to truly work this out.
> 
> But a few things. The symphonic strings = 6 mics - 3xstereo pairs.
> There doesn't seem to be 20 mics for this new library either.
> From the website:
> 
> Mono
> Close
> Tree
> Out
> Ambient
> Balcony
> Leader
> Stereo
> Mids
> Sides
> Close Wide Pan
> 5 Spill Mics
> Thats 26...
> 
> *MIXES*
> 
> Mix 1 (Full)
> Mix 2 (Jake Jackson)
> Atmos (2 — front & rear)
> Thats 8.
> Maybe I'm missing something - but that is 34mics compared to 6 - which is quite different from 20 compared to 3. (more like 17 compared to 3 if we are talking stereo paths...so 15% less)
> 
> Unless I missed something in the keynote / website / the pages of discussion here.
> 
> The length of many of the articulations will be much less than air by nature of the studios. I wouldn't be surprised if in a lot of cases, that is a 33-50% saving.
> 
> We are speculating at this point, and I really don't feel like any of these kinds of discussions bring much to the table right now. Everyone's looking for a "gotcha" or a "this can't be any good for xxx reason". I get it. But at the same time its not terribly useful chat in an already crowded thread.
> 
> And @Daniel James : I feel you for your workflow. Are you in cubase?
> I've started saving track archives (er, XML) for this purpose. Sure - its not as super clean as a multi in kontakt - but it ends up being almost as quick!


There's 20 mic options in that list. Donno where you got 34 from.


----------



## jaketanner

erica-grace said:


> If we can't get inside the instrument to edit the patches, then it is in no way better than Kontakt*, it is, then inferior.
> 
> If, however, we can, than it might be!
> 
> 
> 
> *Not talking the player


It's this the same player that HZ strings uses? If not, that's really dumb...so people that have HZS, can probably comment as to how editable it actually is. Like being able to use MIDI transpose and such..but SFA's old Kontakt GUI had a lot of editable options that I love, and transpose was right there in their GUI...didn't have to search. Hoping that this new player will have more of the same, but better.


----------



## jaketanner

ism said:


> Do you really think that would make a perceptible difference over and above the 80 mic setup?


absolutely. It's similar in comparison of being in a large empty room with one person...clap your hands and it echos...fill that room more than half with bodies, and clap again...the reverb is a lot less, thus making it a cleaner sound. Orchestras work the same way...sound bounces off any and everything in different degrees. Having open mic into empty space, just creates more ambience...open mics with bodies to absorb the ambience, gives a more true sound.


----------



## jaketanner

robgb said:


> I do the same. I also extensively tweak some libraries via Kontakt's back end. The move away from Kontakt is not a welcome one for me. I've never been a fan of romplers.


this is a double edged sword IMO...in one way, the developers are weathered to Kontakt for life, to keep composer's templates and workflow intact...the other...developers should be allowed to create their own player...without having to PAY NI for any licensing, thus pass that savings onto us. However, I believe that the second option should have been done early on, if not from the get-go of the libraries...so that people don't have to conform to a different workflow years later after the comfort of Kontakt.


----------



## Zedcars

I work with Kontak because I have to, but I've never enjoyed the interface that much. No undo, tiny writing, tiny interface, functionlity not always intuitive, strangely placed menus. I know it has a large number of users, but then so does Windows and that isn't the most user friendly either. I think it would be great to work with a tailer made plugin that has the user and the useability of the library as its priority, but with tweakability still available. I think the Synchron player GUI is great design - everything logically laid out and accessible.

Edit: I've just learned there is undo and redo in Kontakt. I did not know that (should probably have investigated before posting misinformation). Is it a fully functional undo, or restricted in some way?


----------



## robgb

jaketanner said:


> this is a double edged sword IMO...in one way, the developers are weathered to Kontakt for life, to keep composer's templates and workflow intact...the other...developers should be allowed to create their own player...without having to PAY NI for any licensing, thus pass that savings onto us. However, I believe that the second option should have been done early on, if not from the get-go of the libraries...so that people don't have to conform to a different workflow years later after the comfort of Kontakt.


I have a number of instruments that aren't Kontakt instruments. I find I rarely use them because they're inconvenient for me. I suppose I could explore ways of layering them with Kontakt instruments, but it just doesn't seem worth the effort. That said, as a mentioned earlier, I would probably buy this if I were a rich man.


----------



## mistermister

KEM said:


> Yeah but will we get proper shorts finally?!



What are you talking about when you say 'proper shorts'? The way you've worded that, it sounds like there's a single shorts patch, or something. For example,

in SCS:
Short Staccato
Short Staccato Dig
Short Spiccato
Short Spiccato Feathered
Short Pizzicato
Short Bartok
Short Col Leg
Short CS

In SSS:
Short 0'5
Short 1'0
Short Spiccato
Short Harmonics
Short Pizzicato
Short Bartok
Short Col Leg
Short Brushed
Short CS
Short Brushed CS

In SSW and SSB they mostly have Staccato, Tenuto and Marcato, Multitongue (which has two types per tongue) and sometimes Staccatissimo.

Not going to complain if they add more, but what is meant by 'proper shorts'?!


----------



## Saxer

jaketanner said:


> It's similar in comparison of being in a large empty room with one person...clap your hands and it echos...fill that room more than half with bodies, and clap again...the reverb is a lot less, thus making it a cleaner sound. Orchestras work the same way...sound bounces off any and everything in different degrees. Having open mic into empty space, just creates more ambience...open mics with bodies to absorb the ambience, gives a more true sound.


That means a full orchestra sounds always dry in a scoring stage because they are so many and a solo player is roomy as hell? That way you could never do section or solo overdubs without everybody sitting there and wait... funny, except for the one who has to pay the musicians 
A room filled with an audience covering the whole floor from wall to wall can make a difference. But not 50 musicians in the middle of a high ceiling scoring stage.


----------



## gpax

jamwerks said:


> All or almost all of their existing catalogue will probably be updated when ported to their new SF player, which seeing how advanced it looks, will probably be soon.


You simply do not have knowledge as to whether this will or will not happen, so why propagate such as probabilities? In fact, there is explicit mention on the SA FAQ page which states they will continue to develop products for Kontakt as well.


----------



## KEM

mistermister said:


> What are you talking about when you say 'proper shorts'? The way you've worded that, it sounds like there's a single shorts patch, or something. For example,
> 
> in SCS:
> Short Staccato
> Short Staccato Dig
> Short Spiccato
> Short Spiccato Feathered
> Short Pizzicato
> Short Bartok
> Short Col Leg
> Short CS
> 
> In SSS:
> Short 0'5
> Short 1'0
> Short Spiccato
> Short Harmonics
> Short Pizzicato
> Short Bartok
> Short Col Leg
> Short Brushed
> Short CS
> Short Brushed CS
> 
> In SSW and SSB they mostly have Staccato, Tenuto and Marcato, Multitongue (which has two types per tongue) and sometimes Staccatissimo.
> 
> Not going to complain if they add more, but what is meant by 'proper shorts'?!



SSS lacks a tight staccatissimo which doesn’t allow for fast/tight passages like the Albion One shorts do, for example. It’s not a massive complaint, just a minor nuisance that I’d like to see resolved in a future update, and most people seem to agree. But other than that I love SSO and don’t really have any desire to use anything else.


----------



## TomislavEP

So it's a BBC Symphonic Orchestra after all.. Although the concept of all-in-one orchestral library that delivers all of the official members of symphonic orchestra on a platter, including the solo instruments and tonal percussion, not to mention the most widely used articulations for each instrument is nothing new, it is certainly a new chapter for Spitfire and it will be definitely interesting to observe the possibilities of this product considering the quality of Spitfire Audio orchestral libraries, their experience in this department, not mentioning the available resources.

I'm looking forward to the customary playthrough video from Paul Thomson; for me this is the best and most "unbiased" presentation of every new product from Spitfire. But I can sadly say with certainty that I won't be able to afford myself a copy of BBCSO in any foreseeable future.


----------



## Billy Palmer

KEM said:


> SSS lacks a tight staccatissimo which doesn’t allow for fast/tight passages like the Albion One shorts do, for example. It’s not a massive complaint, just a minor nuisance that I’d like to see resolved in a future update, and most people seem to agree. But other than that I love SSO and don’t really have any desire to use anything else.



Time machine's awesome, but I do see that.

I'm curious how/why Spitfire are able to charge almost half the price of SSO.
Is development more efficient these days?
Or maybe it's a strategy to make BBCSO ubiquitous as possible - especially when there are now so many orchestral libraries to choose from?


----------



## redlester

Maybe Maida Vale is a lot cheaper than Air?

Incidentally, right at the start of the Live video did anyone else think it was going to be the BBC SO at the Albert Hall due to the clips of the Proms, or was that just me?


----------



## did

William Palmer said:


> Time machine's awesome, but I do see that.
> 
> I'm curious how/why Spitfire are able to charge almost half the price of SSO.
> Is development more efficient these days?
> Or maybe it's a strategy to make BBCSO ubiquitous as possible - especially when there are now so many orchestral libraries to choose from?


As they said it's the beginning of a new collaboration. Today we don' t have the details of the all articulations. I hope we'll have a really complete orchestra at the beginiing, and not have to wait and pay for new future articulations ( for example "con sordino" in a next update etc...)


----------



## I like music

redlester said:


> Maybe Maida Vale is a lot cheaper than Air?
> 
> Incidentally, right at the start of the Live video did anyone else think it was going to be the BBC SO at the Albert Hall due to the clips of the Proms, or was that just me?



First thing that went through my head.


----------



## Salorom

One element that needs light shed upon in my opinion is the studio being decommissioned soon, and the consequences on the recording of material for potential expansions.


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> Maybe Maida Vale is a lot cheaper than Air?
> 
> Incidentally, right at the start of the Live video did anyone else think it was going to be the BBC SO at the Albert Hall due to the clips of the Proms, or was that just me?


Yes, it gave me that impression too. What would be cool is if they could repeat the entire sampling process in some wetter venues, but that’s probably asking too much for such a massive project such as this. I’m not sure adding a Convo on top would sound quite the same.


----------



## BassClef

did said:


> As they said it's the beginning of a new collaboration. Today we don' t have the details of the all articulations. I hope we'll have a really complete orchestra at the beginiing, and not have to wait and pay for new future articulations ( for example "con sordino" in a next update etc...)



Given Spitfire’s criteria of collaboration and sharing of projects, I do not see how they could charge for any future additions or upgrades. If you and I (1000 miles apart) are working on a project together, we must use the same DAW and the library. Otherwise unless everyone purchased the same updates or “pro” versions, collaboration goes out the window!


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> What would be cool is if they could repeat the entire sampling process in some wetter venues, but that’s probably asking too much for such a massive project such as this. I’m not sure adding a Convo on top would sound quite the same.



I wondered that. Maybe they would only need to sample the ambience mics at other venues?


----------



## Living Fossil

mistermister said:


> In SSS:
> Short 0'5
> Short 1'0
> Short Spiccato
> Short Harmonics
> Short Pizzicato
> Short Bartok
> Short Col Leg
> Short Brushed
> Short CS
> Short Brushed CS
> ...
> Not going to complain if they add more, but what is meant by 'proper shorts'?!



It's meant that none of these articulations equals to the articulation called "staccato".
The 0'5 sec short is maybe one of the most useless sounds ever sampled.
There's really absolutely no point in defending the situation as it is.
While i really like the sound of this library, the lack of staccati (together with the absence of a useable marcato) is somehow an act of castration for SSS.


----------



## prodigalson

Salorom said:


> One element that needs light shed upon in my opinion is the studio being decommissioned soon, and the consequences on the recording of material for potential expansions.



It's possible they've already recored material they intend to release as future expansions.


----------



## Salorom

prodigalson said:


> It's possible they've already recored material they intend to release as future expansions.



Let's hope they have a lot of ground covered already, as this project is now effectively set in stone.
I would bet it's a major concern for everyone at Spitfire.

You have to factor in the unplanned updates, for instance, like the ones VSL had to provide for Synchron Strings recently.


----------



## robgb

TomislavEP said:


> I'm looking forward to the customary playthrough video from Paul Thomson;


You know what I'd like? Since they are using their own proprietary player, then they should have the ability to provide a limited or time-restricted demo version for customers to get a taste on their own machines, under their own hands instead of having to rely on video of Paul Thompson. The "Kontakt can't do timed demos" excuse is no longer valid for any developer who bypasses Kontakt.


----------



## cqd

Does it annoy anyone else that the mod wheel and expression are arseways on the spitfire player?


----------



## mistermister

Living Fossil said:


> It's meant that none of these articulations equals to the articulation called "staccato".


That only applies to SSS - my point was that 'proper shorts' were being asked for in SSO, when there are proper shorts galore. It just happens that they didn't record any for SSS. I'd assume that if they haven't released any by now, recordings just don't exist to release. Also, I use 0'5 and 1'0 in tons of my work - far from useless, let alone 'the most useless'.

Sure I wouldn't say no to SSS getting staccato, but feels disingenuous to make it sound like there are 'no proper shorts'.

What are you meaning by Marcato? There are Marcato attacks in SCS and SSS to play Marcato.


----------



## wbacer

redlester said:


> Is it a SATA SSD? I was assuming it would be USB. Perhaps it's a Thunderbolt drive?
> You'd think they would provide a bit more technical info on that.


I asked Spitfire via their chat, their SSD is a USB 3 drive.


----------



## J-M

Daniel James said:


> Hey thanks for the tip, is there a good YouTube vid on it? I will def look into it as I’ll take anything that makes my workflow faster! I wish more people understood the power and speed of multis. It’s the exact reason I moved away from EW when they went to play, it just doesn’t work for the way I work. Which sucks cause the sounds are good!
> 
> -DJ



All hail multis!


----------



## Ashermusic

MrLinssi said:


> All hail multis!



I use multis in Play all the time, easy with Articulation IDs in Logic.


----------



## Adam Takacs

I don't have SSS but in BHCT short 0'5 and 1'0 are my favorite articulations. Very useful.


----------



## Begfred

I only wish they put as much effort on creating many articulations (consistency, different shorts lengths, good legatos, sordinos) as they've done capturing all those mics. Mixing capabilities is really nice the articulations choice is the raw material for programming realistic mockups.

I bought the Studio Strings Pro and Brass Pro wich I really like for the its unique sound compared with other orchestral libraries. But imo they're missing some shorts lengths options and performance legatos.


----------



## jbuhler

wbacer said:


> I asked Spitfire via their chat, their SSD is a USB 3 drive.


Inside the USB3 enclosure, it is SATA drive. I also asked chat and they say it can be removed from the enclosure but that would void the warranty.


----------



## Fry777

Begfred said:


> I only wish they put as much effort on creating many articulations (consistency, different shorts lengths, good legatos, sordinos) as they've done capturing all those mics. Mixing capabilities is really nice the articulations choice is the raw material for programming realistic mockups.
> 
> I bought the Studio Strings Pro and Brass Pro wich I really like for the its unique sound compared with other orchestral libraries. But imo they're missing some shorts lengths options and performance legatos.



From the trailer, we can see several types of shorts, so there's hope


----------



## star.keys

Is anyone clear about what is the value proposition / what is different here, let's say compared with SSO?

Why is this library cheaper (means inferior?) than SSO and priced similar to Studio series (which I had decided to pass even at 40% discount)? Very confusing positioning...

Price point looks interesting though, for those who don't own existing fantastic libraries such as SSO / SCS, OT Berlin etc.


----------



## Celestial Aeon

One thing that came to my mind is that would the price of the library be somehow subsidised by BBC? That would make the price tag lower than the actual value / quality is. But this is pure speculation.



star.keys said:


> Is anyone clear about what is the value proposition / what is different here, let's say compared with SSO?
> 
> Why is this library cheaper (means inferior?) than SSO and priced similar to Studio series (which I had decided to pass even at 40% discount)? Very confusing positioning...
> 
> Price point looks interesting though, for those who don't own existing fantastic libraries such as SSO / SCS, OT Berlin etc.


----------



## Alex Fraser

star.keys said:


> Is anyone clear about what is the value proposition / what is different here, let's say compared with SSO?
> 
> Why is this library cheaper (means inferior?) than SSO and priced similar to Studio series (which I had decided to pass even at 40% discount)? Very confusing positioning...
> 
> Price point looks interesting though, for those who don't own existing fantastic libraries such as SSO / SCS, OT Berlin etc.


Could be as simple as it’s where SF believe the most profitable price point is. Put it this way, there’s no way I could justify SSO with matching percussion and harp libraries. But £700 for the lot? Perhaps..


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

[QUOTE="star.keys, post: 4427248, member: 6082"
Why is this library cheaper (means inferior?) than SSO and priced similar to Studio series (which I had decided to pass even at 40% discount)? Very confusing positioning...
[/QUOTE]

That could just be an aggressive pricing trying to push competitors out of the market, or at minimum set them under immense pressure.


----------



## Mornats

As I guessed earlier, this isn't a library for me but that because it's above my hobbyist price point. To be honest, it's above my skill level too. I have Hyperion Strings Elements to start learning about how to put together the individual sections but Albion One and V are still in my zone.

Super excited to hear what you folks do with BBCSO though. The demos sounded great. It sounded like you were in the hall with the orchestra.

The bit I'm looking forward to is the collaboration and "more to come" aspect of this. Even I will admit they've hammered the price down as low as they can to open this up to more people but another, more accessible layer would be great.

I'd still very much like to see them develop their player and open it up to all for their own samples. This would fit right into what Christian is doing with Pianobook and for me, would be the part that matched their claims of doing something big in sampling. Unfortunately for me, an orchestral sampling company sampling an orchestra isn't really the game changer I was hoping for!


----------



## jtnyc

Daniel James said:


> When did PLAY get multis? Maybe I should take another look xD
> 
> -DJ


Always has as far as I know. At least since version 5, but I believe even earlier...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

robgb said:


> Since they are using their own proprietary player, then they should have the ability to provide a limited or time-restricted demo version for customers to get a taste on their own machines, under their own hands instead of having to rely on video of Paul Thompson.



Great idea! The only drawback is that 600GB would need to be downloaded first, but I'd do it.


----------



## Living Fossil

mistermister said:


> That only applies to SSS
> ...
> I'd assume that if they haven't released any by now, recordings just don't exist to release. Also, I use 0'5 and 1'0 in tons of my work - far from useless, let alone 'the most useless'.



Yes, i was only speaking about SSS (don't have their other string libraries)
What's specially annoying in the 0'5s is the fact that their is no useable control over the note length.
But if it fit's your music, that's great. It rarely fits mine... 




mistermister said:


> What are you meaning by Marcato? There are Marcato attacks in SCS and SSS to play Marcato.



VSL and LASS both are much older libraries and both contain useable marcati.
The "Marcati" in SSS are a joke. One harsh layer and the only control is cc11.
(in fact, what bothers me most is that because of the incompleteness of SSS i usually still have to add LASS or VSL. A bit more effort, and SSS would be a really great library that can stand on its own feet.)


----------



## AndyP

Ashermusic said:


> I use multis in Play all the time, easy with Articulation IDs in Logic.


Sometimes I wonder how hard it must be to activate multiple tracks in a DAW to play multis this way. There are so many ways to Rome.


----------



## AndyP

Wolfie2112 said:


> Great idea! The only drawback is that 600GB would need to be downloaded first, but I'd do it.


600 GB and more than a dozen microphones are not a real innovation in my eyes.


----------



## sostenuto

Timing is everything here _ tons of fine content, but no single, main Orch lib, yet. 
Can add SA _ BBC + 2TB QVO 860 for < $ 1K. Feeling very attractive _ _so far_


----------



## visiblenoise

Looking forward to getting this in several years when I can justify the cost! Not that it isn't a reasonable price, but that I only bought my first set of more-professional starter libraries this year. Wish this was available at the time.


----------



## muk

Listened a few more times to Andy Blaney's demo. The sound of the orchestra and the room are very nice. It does not have a long reverb tail, but a lot of depth. Great.
Other than that it seems to be one library that consolidates the experiences of their Symphonic Line into one product, at an affordable price. Very nice too.
As that, it's not a be-all-end-all kind of sample library. Only one soloist with the winds (as opposed to the specialist libraries by OT, for example), no divisi strings, and I expect an articulation list that is in line with Spitfire's other offferings.
Another thing that caught my ear is that, from the little we have heard of it so far, it could be a library that is suitable for classical concert music. For me that would be great, though I know that most users here probably are looking for a cinematic kind of sound.

As @Mornats I'm curious to see how the collab with the BBC develops. I don't expect any additions to this BBC SO library. For one, Maida Vale is closing down in the not too distant future. Secondly, Spitfire are not a company known for expanding upon released libraries. Will see what else springs from the collaboration.

'A massive chapter marking in the history of sampling? That's silly. It seems to consolidate Spitfire's past experience with sampling into one orchestral library. Nothing revolutionary about it. Not one single aspect where I though: wow, that's something completely new here. It certainly seems to be a competent and interesting product, but truly innovative it is not.


----------



## danbo

I've been skeptical on this release, but now will say Spitfire has finally created a product I'm interested in. The big pluses are ...

Price (their other stuff is overpriced IMO)
Dual computer use! This is insane that the others don't support this, sure you can pull your iLok but it's nuts!
Solo string instruments!
Using FLAC, or OK 'SFLAC' which probably just adds encryption
The mic onslaught isn't a biggie for me, I don't want that many more choices, there's already so much to manage. 

On negatives is 

New plugin (will have bugs no doubt)
New plugin looks to have a somewhat imited interface (e.g. Play has much more you can do)
And ...



Salorom said:


> One element that needs light shed upon in my opinion is the studio being decommissioned soon, and the consequences on the recording of material for potential expansions.



That's a great point. I'm mostly Play/East West, which has the advantage of consistence across all my libraries in tonality (recording studio and techniques), mic positions, etc.


----------



## ism

Celestial Aeon said:


> One thing that came to my mind is that would the price of the library be somehow subsidised by BBC? That would make the price tag lower than the actual value / quality is. But this is pure speculation.




Very unlikely, as a) the BBC is at the very least not going to subsidize American purchases, and b) this would drive Tories crazy (though if there were a channel 4 orchestra, that might be a different story).


What is possible however, is that there's a really substantive education component of this to come - and we seen some hints of that already in the form of discussion of Debussy etc (presumably with mock ups and openly midi/logic data). Perhaps combined with free/ discounted copies to (British) schools.

In that the BBC has a fundamental public service mandate, I do think its possible that part of the 'royalties' for its brand and musicians and such might at least conceivably be realized in the form access to the library for educational purposes (maybe an 'educational' version with only 70 mics, you know, for beginners). This could be a real win-win for everyone.


I still wouldn't use the word 'subsidized', but the net effect might still be that its more affordable to the rest of us.

In any event, I'm getting quite excited to see what this educational component of the project will be. There were a lot of hints and innuendos in the keynote (and claims that don't really make sense unless something more substantial is coming) but little detail.


----------



## CT

JeffvR said:


> Ok let's do some real math. The BBC orchestra includes first chairs for strings and a harp. Let's look at the uncompressed data, that's what you get in the end and a fair comparison.
> 
> BBC = 1,4 tb across 20 mics = 70 GB/mic
> 
> Spitfire Symphonic Strings = 147,6 GB across 3 mics = 49,2 GB/mic
> Spitfire Solo Strings = 66,2 GB across 3 mics = 22,06 GB/mic
> Spitfire Symphonic Brass = 96,7 GB across 3 mics = 32,23 GB/mic
> Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds = 103,4 GB across 3 mics = 34,47 GB/mic
> Spitfire Percussion = 55,8 GB across 3 mics = 18,6 GB/mic
> Spitfire Harp = 12,8 GB across 3 mics = 4,27 GB/mic
> 
> Makes a total of 160,8 GB/mic. So there's almost 2,5 times more data within the AIR version.



And again, given the differences in available instruments, the fact that Solo Strings probably has far more content than the Leaders in BBCSO, and the presumably far shorter release time required for each sample, that sounds about right to me. But if course, we're all speculating pointlessly for now. 

As for how they've managed to keep the price so low, I'd imagine that not having to pay NI fees is a big part.


----------



## Sovereign

danbo said:


> On negatives is
> 
> New plugin (will have bugs no doubt)


That plugin is not really new, it is the same plugin used in Hans Zimmer Strings which has been on the market for quite some time now. I expect it to work just fine.


----------



## Noeticus

Slightly off topic, but I really look forward to LASS 3.0, as I am a slight bit unhappy that as of now this BBC Orchestra offering does not have Divisi.


----------



## justthere

danbo said:


> Dual computer use! This is insane that the others don't support this, sure you can pull your iLok but it's nuts.



It would be if that were true. It’s not. 

Also: glad you like the price but the others aren’t outrageous or even particularly high if you have bought others in the past. Not saying you are doing this but lots of people say “overpriced” when they mean “I can’t afford it”. No shame in the second but there are actual ways of weighing the first.


----------



## Mornats

I do think great things are coming, especially with the educational aspect of the BBC collaboration and I don't want to appear to be knocking BBCSO as it sounds bloody marvelous to me


----------



## curtisschweitzer

AndyP said:


> 600 GB and more than a dozen microphones are not a real innovation in my eyes.



You know, I was really skeptical of the large mic array approach of HZS and EWC, thinking I would mostly use the same ones, but I actually have come to really love the flexibility it gives you in terms of shaping the sound and extending the possible venues for the library. (Especially the "weird" mics in HZS like Riser and Bottle).

Also, Hollywood Orchestra Diamond is 680 GB, so it seems like a reasonable size for a full orchestral kit. Innovative? I won't know until I try it.


----------



## justthere

Of course it's vapor at the moment, but one thing that OT's new engine promises that I think is terrific is the ability to make your own mic mixes that will be bounced down to a stereo pair and thus save resources. Takes time, but you get your mix, do it once and move on. That's what would make a 20-perspective library more usable to me.


----------



## fiestared

Lee Blaske said:


> BTW, it kind of is amazing that there wasn't more word out on the street that this was coming. Lots and lots of people were involved in making this, and knew what was going on. SA has got to have some tight security.


Totally agree, it's very surprising that there wasn't more word out on the street that this was coming ? :emoji_gun:


----------



## Zero&One

fiestared said:


> Totally agree, it's very surprising that there wasn't more word out on the street that this was coming ? :emoji_gun:



i just watched CH's video last night on the HZ release. And he says then he was surprised that it didn't leak due to 344 musicians and the booked studio time.
He also mention vi-c and some people thought he had bought Air Studios, sure that came up again this time :D


----------



## jtnyc

Daniel James said:


> I knew it could do multi timbral for a while but I mean saving out multis, with all your instrument line up and tweaks saved in a reloadable file (like Kontakt or Omnipshere).
> 
> Can't believe I overlooked that, can you point me to a video or walkthrough on how to do it please
> 
> -DJ


I just took a closer look and you haven't overlooked anything. I was wrong. Multi timbral, yes, save a multi file, no, not that I can see. Weird that. You could set up a multi timbral instance and save it as a track preset (depending on what DAW your using) or save it in a dedicated session and import the instances from there as needed. .


----------



## DenisT

It sounds really really good, and quite cheap when you look at the amount of instruments you get.

The SSD is more expensive than other 1To SSD on the market though. Not sure if there is a real interest in buying it except for the download time. What do you think?


----------



## mistermister

Living Fossil said:


> What's specially annoying in the 0'5s is the fact that their is no useable control over the note length.
> But if it fit's your music, that's great. It rarely fits mine...


You can set the 0'5s to stop whenever you want by switching 'No Short artic RTs' to 'Timed Short artic RTs'. Marcatos have never been a problem for me because I tend to want Marcatos to be marcatos, louder than what's round them.



danbo said:


> On negatives is
> 
> New plugin (will have bugs no doubt)


It's not exactly new. They've used it on several products and it has powered tons of their labs releases.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

DenisT said:


> It sounds really really good, and quite cheap when you look at the amount of instruments you get.
> 
> The SSD is more expensive than other 1To SSD on the market though. Not sure if there is a real interest in buying it except for the download time. What do you think?



I'm sold on the intro price. If the walkthroughs sound good, I'll be buying it. My biggest concern right now are the "horn" patches...I'm praying they're better than the Studio series.

IMO, the supplied SSD is overpriced. One would be better off buying a 1TB Samsung T5, that has Thunderbolt 3 and USB 3 compatibility. I recently grabbed one for under $200.


----------



## fish_hoof

Manuel Stumpf said:


> [QUOTE="star.keys, post: 4427248, member: 6082"
> Why is this library cheaper (means inferior?) than SSO and priced similar to Studio series (which I had decided to pass even at 40% discount)? Very confusing positioning...



That could just be an aggressive pricing trying to push competitors out of the market, or at minimum set them under immense pressure.
[/QUOTE]

This is what has me kind of stopped in my tracks... To buy the Symphonic Orchestra as a bundle (with only 3 sections mind you) is $1699!! And under 300 GB's? Then if you bought the percussion library... its over $2000. Something that is being released, that is 600gb, for $749 intro? Even $1k at after? I mean, the chamber strings professional is more than the BBC Orchestra!

Looking forward to more demos and walkthroughs...


----------



## Zedcars

It’s a shame there’s no Beta program so I can use the library now while testing the software. I don’t mind working around the bugs and such.


----------



## Ashermusic

AndyP said:


> Sometimes I wonder how hard it must be to activate multiple tracks in a DAW to play multis this way. There are so many ways to Rome.



Not hard at all, just takes a bit of time.


----------



## Ashermusic

Daniel James said:


> Time is money Jay!
> 
> -DJ



But as you know DJ, sometimes time spent on the front end, saves you money on the back end. Or you can hire me to do it for you :


----------



## jamwerks

Zedcars said:


> It’s a shame there’s no Beta program so I can use the library now while testing the software. I don’t mind working around the bugs and such.


You can test the software by downloading any of the free Labs.


----------



## jaketanner

robgb said:


> I have a number of instruments that aren't Kontakt instruments. I find I rarely use them because they're inconvenient for me. I suppose I could explore ways of layering them with Kontakt instruments, but it just doesn't seem worth the effort. That said, as a mentioned earlier, I would probably buy this if I were a rich man.


I’m waiting for the actual walkthrough. I’m pretty set with everything but I am looking for a Symphonic string library. Was gonna do SSS but I can wait until November for this.


----------



## AndyP

curtisschweitzer said:


> Also, Hollywood Orchestra Diamond is 680 GB, so it seems like a reasonable size for a full orchestral kit. Innovative? I won't know until I try it.



That's right what you're writing, but HO is 10 years on the market and superficially considered hasn't changed much at the basic technique of combining samples and different mic positions, using keyswitches, and so on.

I don't want to criticize SF or other manufacturers in general, I'm sure the BBC package will be very good and I don't generally rule out a purchase.

But it was so sensationally announced, groundbreaking, and unfortunately I don't (yet) see it that way. Getting a self-contained orchestra that sounds good without much effort is definitely a plus.

I'm waiting for the day when the first manufacturer creates a hybrid of sample modeler and real samples, with a scripting that significantly increases the playability of natural instruments, and has a much smaller memory footprint.

Samplemodelling is an interesting approach and maybe the future. I don't see this as an adequate replacement yet, but as a good addition. 

For a long time I was looking for a choir that I could play variably and powerfully staccato, and at the same time sustain, without needing key switches, editing release notes and so on. Performance Samples Oceania was a revelation, and also other instruments of this manufacturer did what I have wished for a long time. That's what I think of as innovation.

I am eager to see what technical innovations the future will bring. 

I think it's a bit like buying a car. They all drive (more or less), some faster, some slower, with more comfort, or spartanly furnished. A car may be bought every 5 - 10 years or leased (see EW composer cloud). In the sample market, new librarys come onto the market almost every month and it's like a bottomless barrel. The half-life of purchased librarys is felt to be getting shorter and shorter, and yet you usually do the same thing with them as with the previous library, and the one before and so on. The sound may change, improved legatos, better shorts, but basically they do the same, based on more or less the same technology.

And no one has yet managed to produce all the attributes so satisfactorily that you can say, yo, that's it now. Maybe it's the BBC Collection, maybe not, but who knows now? Perhaps they will never exist because the requirements and tastes are far too different. How long have we been using midi as standard?

Those are just my thoughts that come to me when sensations are announced because marketing in an overcrowded market demands it.

Sorry for this long execution ....


----------



## Zedcars

jamwerks said:


> You can test the software by downloading any of the free Labs.


I think I have that but haven’t played with it yet. Well I was really just day-dreaming about beta testing as a way to get my grubby little mits on the library early. No lofty altruistic goal for the betterment of humanity; just plain selfishness born of sample lust I’m afraid.


----------



## BassClef

Daniel James said:


> Time is money Jay!
> 
> -DJ



If your multis are to be used as individual instruments for recording, like a combination of low strings and trombones and contra bassoons, then creating multis in the E/W PLAY browser is easy and fast! After that the time depends on how much tweaking you want to spend in the E/W PLAYER adjusting parameters before saving.

The real time consumer however is if you are creating a multi of various articulations for key switching and articulation sets in Logic. (the only DAW I know) Then you have to spend a lot of time in Logic setting them up to work with your multi.


----------



## MaxOctane

I gotta say, this discussion about recording empty chairs, and capturing the sound of players breathing ("_does it add too much noise?_") is, truly, P*eak Spitfire*.


----------



## robgb

AndyP said:


> I don't want to criticize SF or other manufacturers in general, I'm sure the BBC package will be very good and I don't generally rule out a purchase.


I think if Spitfire isn't careful it will become a victim of its own hype. Their new(ish) CEO has a background in brand partnerships and marketing. Which is probably why we're hearing phrases like "game changing" (or whatever it was). They are certainly experts of the tease. Whether the library lives up to it is another matter. Time will tell. In the meantime, it has what every company on earth wants. People talking about it.


----------



## Fleer

I don’t know. How many are we, participating in this thread? 20? 30? 50, maybe?


----------



## emasters

Daniel James said:


> a custom sampler sort of forces you into the companies way of working, which after working with a couple of libraries in their engine, doesn't quite work with my workflow, so it unfortunately doesn't get used as often as I would want.



Same situation here -- my biggest frustration with the Spitfire player is lack of Multis thus requiring individual instruments for each instance. Sub-mixing within Kontakt is fast and and lends itself to being creative within and across different products. With the Spitfire player, one must deal with sub-mixing at the DAW level -- which is slower, and as a result, I don't use their custom products that much. Given the level of investment they make with sound libraries, I wish they would get serious about their player and invest in enhancing it to provide one player instance for all their supported products. Frankly, I'm indifferent whether they offer a custom player or not. That said, for a $1,000 library requiring 600 GB of storage, hosting it in a basic player seems inconsistent.


----------



## PaulieDC

DenisT said:


> It sounds really really good, and quite cheap when you look at the amount of instruments you get.
> 
> The SSD is more expensive than other 1To SSD on the market though. Not sure if there is a real interest in buying it except for the download time. What do you think?


I think the download time is still WAY faster than waiting for a box to be put in the Post, lol. If you have the bandwidth, download speed and existing backup drive space (which I do), the download is just fine. 
Instead, if you are on Windows spend the money a https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MFZY2F2/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_3?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 (1TB NVMe SSD) (plus $18 for the https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01798WOJ0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (PCI adapter)), and the library will load about 500% faster than a standard SSD. And you'll have room for a couple other libraries. Plus the adapter card holds a second M.2 _SATA _drive, you just plug in a SATA cable to the mobo for the second drive. A good 1TB SATA M.2 is https://smile.amazon.com/Crucial-MX500-NAND-2280SS-Internal/dp/B0784SY515/ref=sr_1_4?crid=383NU2PNW6LBS&keywords=m.2+sata+ssd&qid=1567121666&s=electronics&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&sprefix=m.2+sata%2Celectronics%2C200&sr=1-4 (about $100) and all of a sudden you have 2TB of library drive space from a PCIe x4 slot, 1TB of screaming fast NVMe and 1TB of SATA SSDs. NO power cables from the PSU required, just a PCIe slot that runs at X4 (or faster).


----------



## colony nofi

axb312 said:


> There's 20 mic options in that list. Donno where you got 34 from.


Mic options on their own don't tell us enough to meaningfully do any math on this.
The total number of mics do (as you measure data-usage on a per mic basis, not on a choice base. And since spill are mono, and mono is 1 channel, I make it 34 mics or the equivelent of 17 stereo stems (if you want to do that math that way)


----------



## Alex Fraser

James H said:


> He also mention vi-c and some people thought he had bought Air Studios, sure that came up again this time :D


<Sheepishly raises hand.>
At least I was more on the money this time around!


----------



## 5Lives

Any more info on the SSD? A 1TB Samsung EVO is $140, but that is just the drive. Does Spitfire include an enclosure? If so, that's around another $20 and then I imagine shipping costs, so not quite the $200 they are charging, but getting closer. If on the other hand it is just the SSD, significantly cheaper to buy your own and download.


----------



## JEPA

do the _empty_ chairs samples occupy space on the SSD? just wondering...


----------



## Ashermusic

Daniel James said:


> Na im good. I use a proper DAW  I KID I KID!!!!
> 
> -DJ
> [/QU
> Cueball...I mean Cubase?


----------



## jaketanner

JEPA said:


> do the _empty_ chairs samples occupy space on the SSD? just wondering...


I would imagine so. It's still a recording. if I record a minute of silence in my DAW, and export that out, it's will have the same size as if there were content.


----------



## jaketanner

5Lives said:


> Any more info on the SSD? A 1TB Samsung EVO is $140, but that is just the drive. Does Spitfire include an enclosure? If so, that's around another $20 and then I imagine shipping costs, so not quite the $200 they are charging, but getting closer. If on the other hand it is just the SSD, significantly cheaper to buy your own and download.


It's the SSD WITH the entire library pre-loaded...so that takes time as well I'd imagine, although for them, it might be a simple drag and drop...not nearly as long as it would take to download...but I get what you're saying. And it's an external drive...it would have to be.


----------



## jbuhler

5Lives said:


> Any more info on the SSD? A 1TB Samsung EVO is $140, but that is just the drive. Does Spitfire include an enclosure? If so, that's around another $20 and then I imagine shipping costs, so not quite the $200 they are charging, but getting closer. If on the other hand it is just the SSD, significantly cheaper to buy your own and download.


Yes, the SSD is SATA and includes an enclosure and seems to come from the manufacturer that way. In any event, SF Support told me that the warranty would be voided if you removed the SSD and loaded it into a bay.


----------



## prodigalson

First thoughts on listening to the demos. Tight and punchy while also being rich and deep. There's a transparency and natural sound that feels almost classical and while still being silky and lush at times. Mahleresque. 

Almost like the Berlin Orchestra but less roomy. 

Reminds me actually of some of the classic 80s scores of JW. E.T. And Close Encounters comes to mind. 

Anyway, it remains to be seen what this library really will bring to the table


----------



## axb312

colony nofi said:


> Mic options on their own don't tell us enough to meaningfully do any math on this.
> The total number of mics do (as you measure data-usage on a per mic basis, not on a choice base. And since spill are mono, and mono is 1 channel, I make it 34 mics or the equivelent of 17 stereo stems (if you want to do that math that way)



Each mic option is one sample set. Doesn't make sense to count stereo pairs as 2 mics.


----------



## VinRice

prodigalson said:


> Reminds me actually of some of the classic 80s scores of JW. E.T. And Close Encounters comes to mind.



My impressions exactly.


----------



## Zedcars

PaulieDC said:


> I think the download time is still WAY faster than waiting for a box to be put in the Post, lol.


Paul said if you order the SSD you get it delivered before October 24th, so that when the activation code arrives you can start using it almost immediately.


----------



## constaneum

VinRice said:


> My impressions exactly.



spot on. The classic John Williams' sound. By the way, if you download, dont forget to x 2? You need 1.2TB of space for download+unpack. I dont think it'll be just downloading a straight away usable 600GB library right?


----------



## colony nofi

axb312 said:


> Each mic option is one sample set. Doesn't make sense to count stereo pairs as 2 mics.


Unfortunately, from a data perspective (which is how this all started) it ONLY makes sense to count the total number of independent signals.
If we need to work out how much data is being used (people earlier in the thread were trying to compare this to other libraries / how "detailed" it is), then we need to make sure we know how much data is being used per instrument per position like you say - but it HAS to take into account the number of mics for each mic position.

Any mono mic will only take up half the data of a stereo position. The math will go out of wack completely if you count the mono position in the same way as for stereo.

I still think this is all terribly premature - but if we're going to go there, we may as well be as accurate as possible.

Therefore - to compare two libraries, we need to add up the total number of channels for each instrument. mono+stereo+full 5.1 surround would be 9 channels for instance.
or mono + quad would be 5.
In the case of some other spitfire libraries it is 3 * stereo - or 3 * 2 so 6.
And if I haven't mucked up the math, for these "20" positions there are 34 channels of audio.
This changes the math by 15% in favour of the new lib.

And as mentioned earlier, given the shorter RT time on the space it was recorded in, each sample may well be 33-50% shorter as well - which has to be taken into account for any comparison of detail. 

Although there again the math is skewed. A sample length = length of note sampled (shorts won't change the math but longs will!) PLUS the tail time. In the sampling I've done, this tail is not to be underestimated in terms of the amount of data it takes up. I can imagine somewhere like air would have at minimum 4 or 5 seconds of sample at the end of a note. In Maida Vale, perhaps 2.5 or 3 would do it!


----------



## Zero&One

jbuhler said:


> Yes, the SSD is SATA and includes an enclosure and seems to come from the manufacturer that way. In any event, SF Support told me that the warranty would be voided if you removed the SSD and loaded it into a bay.



That's interesting thanks. So explains how they are more expensive than the norm bare SSD's?

As BHCT took me a day to download, I'll probably have to go this option. Maida Vale will be rubble before I even get to install it!


----------



## Alex Fraser

I’ve only got thunderbolt 1 as a high speed input option, so I’m starring down the barrel of a looong download..

Looking at a couple of docks but TB1 is slim pickings and pricey..


----------



## Zero&One

Alex Fraser said:


> I’ve only got thunderbolt 1 as a high speed input option, so I’m starring down the barrel of a looong download..
> 
> Looking at a couple of docks but TB1 is slim pickings and pricey..



Do you think they would consider pre-load like games companies are doing? I'd need a good week run at this thing.


----------



## Raphioli

Since theres a lot of conversation regarding the amount of content (RR,dynamic layers, every semitone/whole tone sampled), I hope Spitfire can clear this up a bit.

I'm not talking about "up-to", but in more detail.
Because any developer can say, for example "up-to 7 RRs" as long as theres a single patch in the library which has 7RR. (In other words, it wouldn't be lying even if the other patches only have 2RRs)

Really looking forward to a detailed walkthrough, but also a detailed spec sheet (RR, dynamic layers etc.)
Especially since its nonrefundable. I'd really like to know what I'm getting.


----------



## Alex Fraser

James H said:


> Do you think they would consider pre-load like games companies are doing? I'd need a good week run at this thing.


That’s not a bad idea actually. I assume the preloaded ssd has the library waiting to go anyhow, so as long as we couldn’t authorise it before the date..

I think the issue is the SF software authorises *before* downloading..


----------



## Pianolando

This is much more interesting to me than I thought it would be. Demos sound awesome, but they often do when they are written by Yoda-level composers/library tweakers. 
Looking forward to detailed walkthroughs so I can get these questions answered:
1. How good are the string legatos?
2. Are the woodwinds dynamic enough and do the solo ones phase when riding CC1?
3. Can the brass pull off both chorale writing and real ff?


----------



## TomislavEP

robgb said:


> I think if Spitfire isn't careful it will become a victim of its own hype. Their new(ish) CEO has a background in brand partnerships and marketing. Which is probably why we're hearing phrases like "game changing" (or whatever it was). They are certainly experts of the tease. Whether the library lives up to it is another matter. Time will tell. In the meantime, it has what every company on earth wants. People talking about it.



Personally, I often find it difficult to link the unquestionable quality of Spitfire Audio products, which is, among the other things, closely related to the certain "traditionalism", and this overly aggressive, bombastic, social media driven marketing campaign they've been pushing in the last few years. IMHO, they're also an absolute elitists when it comes to endorsing certain artists, styles and institutions. I wholeheartedly agree that all the collaborators of the sample library developer companies should be adequately recognized, rewarded, honored and mentioned, but with Spiftire, this is (also) something else.


----------



## CT

Alex Fraser said:


> I’ve only got thunderbolt 1 as a high speed input option, so I’m starring down the barrel of a looong download..
> 
> Looking at a couple of docks but TB1 is slim pickings and pricey..



I think we're the only ones still on 2011 iMacs, hah. I can always count on you having the same problems I do.


----------



## Francis Bourre

I found some interesting insights in this new https://www.soundonsound.com/news/introducing-bbc-symphony-orchestra-spitfire-audio?fbclid=IwAR0rpbRRFBRkguB5OhX5wbhPTP1MlSB6GytYzJ3YZj7O1NmMlxp0IJbrqgc (article).

*There were many hints during the keynote and my subsequent conversation with Henson and Thomson that the launch of BBC Symphony Orchestra will not be the end of Spitfire's collaboration with the BBC. *


----------



## jamwerks

They've got about 2 years of sampling time there to put out lots more libraries. Talking like that, they must already be very happy with the sound of that room! Listening again to the two demo's, sounds similar to the room where Cinematic Studio stuff is recorded but just a bit bigger.


----------



## mikeh-375

The Blaney demo is excellent writing, reminiscent of Britten, especially Peter Grimes and the Sunday Morning mvt from the Sea Interludes, the overlapping horns and staccato strings in particular.
I need to know about dynamic layers before I commit.
It'll be a bit weird, playing on a keyboard notes played by players I knew at my Alma Mater, who'd have predicted such a thing all that time ago....


----------



## dcoscina

This all sounds very promising. At the risk of sounding to idealistic, I’m kind of hoping the BBC Orchestra will end up replacing much of my other libraries. As I get older I’m looking to streamline and simplify my writing rig. While it’s nice to have selection, I’m attracted to the prospect of having a single entity that sounds great out of the box, mixes well together and let’s me focus on the music aspects more than twiddling with samples or mixes between various libraries to achieve some organic cohesion.


----------



## johanholmstrom

No divisi. Why!?


----------



## MatteoCarlito

Hi everybody.
First of all: I am a movie director, not a musician, so please don't kill me 
Here's my impressions on the keynote:

1. Guys know how to deal with marketing, but a live show it's a different animal. It was not good, at all. Lots of chatting, bad scenography, they are very nice people by the way. It helps, but that does not change the facts. They need a Director, me .
2. The Demo. As I said, I am no expert, but i have never listened to something more "real" then this VST. And, also, strictly on the composition, it was simply great. A lot of fuzz and grandeur, of course, but musically speaking a masterpiece.
3. Spitfire in my opinion is the "Apple" of Vst, they have style, they are elegant.

Cheers!


----------



## mikeh-375

johanholmstrom said:


> No divisi. Why!?


Indeed Johan, a major disappointment for me too. Perhaps there'll be more product to come in time.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

MatteoCarlito said:


> Hi everybody.
> First of all: I am a movie director, not a musician, so please don't kill me
> Here's my impressions on the keynote:
> 
> 1. Guys know how to deal with marketing, but a live show it's a different animal. It was not good, at all. Lots of chatting, bad scenography, they are very nice people by the way. It helps, but that does not change the facts. They need a Director, me .
> 2. The Demo. As I said, I am no expert, but i have never listened to something more "real" then this VST. And, also, strictly on the composition, it was simply great. A lot of fuzz and grandeur, of course, but musically speaking a masterpiece.
> 3. Spitfire in my opinion is the "Apple" of Vst, they have style, they are elegant.
> 
> Cheers!



You have style too and definitely you seem to understand the elegance of Spitfire. Thank you. And Apple is such a great example, yes. I am so stoked to read that. Can´t wait to see one of your movies. Thank you again.
:dodgy:


----------



## GingerMaestro

They mentioned that this is the beginning of a partnership with the BBC..I wonder what else they have in store..BBC Big Band could be amazing !?


----------



## Parsifal666

I've been asking for a John Williams (as well as Maher and Goldsmith) Composer's Toolkit for some time now.

I'd buy that in a heartbeat.


----------



## jamwerks

johanholmstrom said:


> No divisi. Why!?


Listen to Andy's demo. He has some divisi in there. Does that not sound right?


----------



## Zero&One

MatteoCarlito said:


> 1. Guys know how to deal with marketing, but a live show it's a different animal. It was not good, at all. Lots of chatting, bad scenography, they are very nice people by the way. It helps, but that does not change the facts. They need a Director, me .



I agree, I love CH's YouTube and their general running of Spitfire. But they seriously need experienced guys to do these presentations.
This is big league stuff with BBC, and it turned into a few plinky plonk notes demonstration. For all the hype surrounding this, the actual product was lost in the presentation for me. I only remember the audio demo and f bomb.
Even get Oliver and Homay to do demos, as they have it nailed way more. Christian and Paul should open/close these events.


----------



## mikeh-375

jamwerks said:


> Listen to Andy's demo. He has some divisi in there. Does that not sound right?



So there is divsi then? Or is it just the main patch used chordally or contrapuntally? The latter uses might sound allright in some contexts but for me, as a writer who sometimes divides as much as Ravel in my serious music, and not always just in half, having a diminished sound is important for a proper representation in the absence of a real band. So if there is divisi......


----------



## Zedcars

James H said:


> I agree, I love CH's YouTube and their general running of Spitfire. But they seriously need experienced guys to do these presentations.
> This is big league stuff with BBC, and it turned into a few plinky plonk notes demonstration. For all the hype surrounding this, the actual product was lost in the presentation for me. I only remember the audio demo and f bomb.
> Even get Oliver and Homay to do demos, as they have it nailed way more. Christian and Paul should open/close these events.


It sounded to me like they were slightly winging it. Paul seemed much calmer and better rehearsed, but Christian was facing away from the audience for quite a bit of it, and seemed to be saying things that had just popped into his head, rather than sticking to a well rehearsed script. And I'm not saying this is easy. I commend anyone willing to get up on a stage like that and present at that level. But projecting a professional and competent image is important. I feel they do need to work on that much more, or find someone else to do it. As much as people like to compare them to Apple, they certainly have not got the same perfectionist approach to their keynotes that Apple has, although they've had decades of practice so maybe the comparison is a little unfair.

Having said all that, sometimes micromanaged stage presentations can come across as bland and insincere. Their keynote was neither.


----------



## redlester

The presentation was spot on for what Spitfire are. It was full of the little mistakes and the nervousness of real people. Making it glossier would ruin it for me.


----------



## I like music

Parsifal666 said:


> I've been asking for a John Williams (as well as Maher and Goldsmith) Composer's Toolkit for some time now.
> 
> I'd buy that in a heartbeat.



So you're asking for a world class live orchestra that lives in your house, then?


----------



## redlester

GingerMaestro said:


> They mentioned that this is the beginning of a partnership with the BBC..I wonder what else they have in store..BBC Big Band could be amazing !?


----------



## redlester

MatteoCarlito said:


> 3. Spitfire in my opinion is the "Apple" of Vst, they have style, they are elegant.



I think of them more as the Factory Records of VST...


----------



## jamwerks

mikeh-375 said:


> So there is divsi then? Or is it just the main patch used chordally or contrapuntally? The latter uses might sound allright in some contexts but for me, as a writer who sometimes divides as much as Ravel in my serious music, and not always just in half, having a diminished sound is important for a proper representation in the absence of a real band. So if there is divisi......


Pretty sure I saw two patches for each V1 & V2 in Andy's demo. When you have such big ensembles such as this BBC library (16 14 12 10 8) doing traditional divisi sections would sound so close to the originales that it would make little sense to sample them (8 violins sounds very close to 16). So when V1 or V2 splits into divisi, in the sample world, using two full patches works just fine. When you start having 3 or even 4 notes in the V1 or V2 , then a smaller library like SCS (5 4 4 4 3) would be handy and correspond more to we are used to hearing (in Debussy &Ravel for example).

Live orchestras are different animals with other factors involved that don't come into play in the sample world.


----------



## mikeh-375

2 full patches for divis isn't fine for my ears and I can't quite agree that 8 vlns is very close in sound to 16 neither, especially at extremes. I do agree though that in the faux world we inhabit, you can get away with 2 full patches for one section divisi in half. But the subtlety in the diminished timbre and how it meshes with the other strings via interlocking say, is an essential trait in divisi and full patches will not give you that sound.

I have every library under the sun (except for ironically sfa's studio strings!!!) and resort to much mixing and matching for divisi, so much so that it can be a pain at times, but I persist. That's why I for one am disappointed there is no obvious divisi.

I hope you are right about there being 2 patches that are each half of the section as that would help me decide on this product, but somehow I don't think they are divisi patches....hope I'm wrong and you are right.


----------



## jamwerks

As for the live presentation, I too was just a little surprised at the "non professional" nature of it. Not that that diminishes them or the product in any way. I think it's important that these presentations be done by P & C. The are the faces of SF and incarnate everything positive that they've painstakedly created (dedication, passion, excellence, smiles).

The "show" should be written with a Copyrighter and then rehersed several times.

OT has gone a bit in that direction with their voice-over walk-throughs.


----------



## Garry

Have to disagree with the comments about needing a more polished presentation. Spitfire are already criticized enough, wrongly in my opinion, for their focus on marketing, but I can almost guarantee, that had they done so for this event, and gone for something more slick, we'd be reading comments on here, along the lines: "I wish they'd spent the money on another spiccatto, rather than those ballet dancers they brought in!". So basically, they can't win either way. Personally, I prefer the authenticity: in fact, it's in keeping with their brand that Christian's tangible disbelief at having produced something associated with the BBC, was almost palpable, because it reinforces the aspirational sense that anyone can make inspiring things happen with music.


----------



## I like music

Garry said:


> Have to disagree with the comments about needing a more polished presentation. Spitfire are already criticized enough, wrongly in my opinion, for their focus on marketing, but I can almost guarantee, that had they done so for this event, and gone for something more slick, we'd be reading comments on here, along the lines: "I wish they'd spent the money on another spiccatto, rather than those ballet dancers they brought in!". So basically, they can't win either way. Personally, I prefer the authenticity: in fact, it's in keeping with their brand that Christian's tangible disbelief at having produced something associated with the BBC, was almost palpable, because it reinforces the aspirational sense that anyone can make inspiring things happen with music.



100% what I was thinking. His voice stayed his voice, unconstrained. They came across like excited kids who couldn't believe what they were involved in, and that enthusiasm is infectious. I felt the content (especially the live demo part) could have been punchier, or maybe they could have made sure we could hear it clearly, but the presentation was excellent.


----------



## Garry

One other thing I think is notable about the process they've undertaken for BBCSO: I do think they've done a good job of taking control of the message this time around, probably having learned from the HZS experience. With HZS, the product was released at the time of the announcement, and that meant that any negative feedback, justified or not, had the potential to drown out the anticipation and excitement. This time around, they've separated the release of the concept from the release of the product, and as such, there isn't much to go on to critique it, so all you're left with is a prolonged and building sense of anticipation (I'm probably not the only one keeping up probably an unhealthy level of intensity in watching out for YouTube notifications for the next piece of information, such as the walkthrough). This provides the company an opportunity to get some additional last minute feedback from potential users, on the types of things people will be looking for and focussing in on immediately after release, and thereby some time to ensure these things are addressed (where there is time to do so). If that was their plan, it was a good one, because I'm probably not alone in feeling a building sense of anticipation for this. Of course, that can be dangerous too, so let's hope this thing lives up to our impossibly high expectations! Otherwise, reserve a big slot in the Drama Zone!


----------



## jamwerks

mikeh-375 said:


> I hope you are right about there being 2 patches that are each half of the section as that would help me decide on this product, but somehow I don't think they are divisi patches....hope I'm wrong and you are right.


I don't think there are half sections (we'll see). And if there were 2 discrete patches of 8 each, that wouldn't sound like an ensemble of 16 (in the sample world).

If your 5 part orchestral writing at times needs to split into 6 (let's say the V2 line splits) in a real orchestra the sound of the 2 V2 lines continues to come from the same stage position (as it does in the sample world) but suffers a slight timbral change (7 fundamental frequencies [players] each, instead of 14). In the context of a full mix that's unpersivable.

"Reality" is actually weaker and wronger than samples. In this real world example timbrally we now have in the top 4 voices: 16 7 7 12, in numbers of players. Beethoven would have prefered to hear 16 14 14 12, but that wasn't possible in the real world. If Ludwig were to write with samples he would have prefered using two times the full patch, knowing that his old divisi was just the necessary weakness of a physical orchestra. So why complain that in the sample world we're actually better off?!


----------



## I like music

Reckon they'll do the "Brexit Toolkit" next?

A library that keeps changing which instruments are in it, and you just never know when it'll get released?


----------



## Garry

I like music said:


> Reckon they'll do the "Brexit Toolkit" next?
> 
> A library that keeps changing which instruments are in it, and you just never know when it'll get released?


Then all the people who initially proposed the idea resign when it goes forward, and you're left with a bumbling buffoon called Boris, to present it. Despite being warned that the Brexit Toolkit will trash your hard drive, nothing will work for months or years after it, and your only 2 friends in the world will also leave you for doing such a stupid thing, bumbling Boris will say such talk is 'project fear', and you shouldn't wait and get a receipt for your stupid purchase, but trash your hard drive now anyway, just to show how British the Brexit Toolkit is, and how proud you are of how utterly insane the whole idea is!


----------



## BassClef

constaneum said:


> spot on. The classic John Williams' sound. By the way, if you download, dont forget to x 2? You need 1.2TB of space for download+unpack. I dont think it'll be just downloading a straight away usable 600GB library right?



Not so fast. There is no reason that their download would not be the compressed file along with their new player. It will likely be the same exact file they will be burning to the SSDs they will be selling.


----------



## mikeh-375

jamwerks said:


> So why complain that in the sample world we're actually better off?!



Well I wasn't really complaining about anything, just expressing disappointment about SFA's BBC string divisi thing. I suppose it's because after 30 years of live sessions from solo to full orchestra, accuracy of sound (so far as it's possible) is important to me. I was also trained in a manner that gives me control over scoring that has melded it with the process of composing, so one is influenced by the other, as it should be of course - the composing exploits the timbre and the timbre and idiomacy of instruments and combinations influences the composing. So the closer the timbre to reality equates to being closer to the compositions emotional and musical aim too, as well as being more aurally accurate to my ears. I'm not talking media music here btw and God knows I understand that anything goes there.

Anything I can do to impinge the flawed real world onto superior samples and degrade them is fine by me regardless of Ludwig VB's opinion on this... ...he's a crap programmer anyway.....
We have no truck here Jamwerks, but we seem to disagree on a few points eh?


----------



## Digivolt

MatteoCarlito said:


> 3. Spitfire in my opinion is the "Apple" of Vst



I'd hope they're not, Apple are a pretty atrocious customer unfriendly company selling overpriced machines, their OS is good but as a company they're pretty crap


----------



## prodigalson

BassClef said:


> Not so fast. There is no reason that their download would not be the compressed file along with their new player. It will likely be the same exact file they will be burning to the SSDs they will be selling.



The download will be the compressed samples but generally you need twice the space of the actual download as it'll use another 600gb to unpack. hence, 1.2tb disk space needed total for install. once install is done, it'll only take up 600gb space. 

FWIW, I asked Spitfire and they confirmed that those who download will be able to do it per section. i.e. you don't have to download the whole 600gb to start playing.


----------



## Digivolt

prodigalson said:


> hence, 1.2tb disk space needed total for install.



How are they installing it on a 1tb drive then ?


----------



## jamwerks

mikeh-375 said:


> Well I wasn't really complaining about anything, just expressing disappointment about SFA's BBC string divisi thing.


Got you! Complaining wasn't an acurate discription. It's nice having a discussion!


----------



## danbo

justthere said:


> It would be if that were true. It’s not.



From the FAQ

*"CAN I USE THIS LIBRARY ON MORE THAN ONE COMPUTER?*
Yes, this is a single user license, but our EULA allows for installation on up to two computers at a time."



> Also: glad you like the price but the others aren’t outrageous or even particularly high if you have bought others in the past. Not saying you are doing this but lots of people say “overpriced” when they mean “I can’t afford it”. No shame in the second but there are actual ways of weighing the first.



I can more than afford it. People who have money don't get there by being spendthrifts.

Compared to EastWest Spitfire is expensive, for example.


----------



## prodigalson

Digivolt said:


> How are they installing it on a 1tb drive then ?



you only need the 1.2 tb if you're downloading. it's because it downloads it in compressed files and then unpacks the files to your location so by the time it's finished you'll have the unpacked samples (600gb) plus the original downloaded files (600gb). Then it deletes the original files. 

When it comes on the hard drive there's nothing to unpack, it's already there.


----------



## redlester

Garry said:


> One other thing I think is notable about the process they've undertaken for BBCSO: I do think they've done a good job of taking control of the message this time around, probably having learned from the HZS experience. With HZS, the product was released at the time of the announcement, and that meant that any negative feedback, justified or not, had the potential to drown out the anticipation and excitement. This time around, they've separated the release of the concept from the release of the product, and as such, there isn't much to go on to critique it, so all you're left with is a prolonged and building sense of anticipation (I'm probably not the only one keeping up probably an unhealthy level of intensity in watching out for YouTube notifications for the next piece of information, such as the walkthrough). This provides the company an opportunity to get some additional last minute feedback from potential users, on the types of things people will be looking for and focussing in on immediately after release, and thereby some time to ensure these things are addressed (where there is time to do so). If that was their plan, it was a good one, because I'm probably not alone in feeling a building sense of anticipation for this. Of course, that can be dangerous too, so let's hope this thing lives up to our impossibly high expectations! Otherwise, reserve a big slot in the Drama Zone!



This is a really excellent point. I posted earlier in the thread that I wished they wouldn't announce it until it was ready, but from the way you put it above I can see logic in that - assuming that's why they've done it.

Doesn't diminish my annoyance at other things like Apple announcing products with the full and final set-in -stone specifications, months before they are actually ready.


----------



## VinRice

Digivolt said:


> I'd hope they're not, Apple are a pretty atrocious customer unfriendly company selling overpriced machines, their OS is good but as a company they're pretty crap



Must be why they are doing so badly...


----------



## Chungus

jamwerks said:


> OT has gone a bit in that direction with their voice-over walk-throughs.



I, for one, miss Sasha in the walkthroughs. They just don't sound right without a speaker bearing a thick German accent.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

prodigalson said:


> The download will be the compressed samples but generally you need twice the space of the actual download as it'll use another 600gb to unpack. hence, 1.2tb disk space needed total for install. once install is done, it'll only take up 600gb space.
> 
> FWIW, I asked Spitfire and they confirmed that those who download will be able to do it per section. i.e. you don't have to download the whole 600gb to start playing.


You won't actually require double the download size with this library, only a little more than the download size itself. The "double" size required for install was from an older unpacking process which these libraries do not use (Hans Zimmer Strings & Eric Whitacre Choir among those).

Luke


----------



## Zedcars

Digivolt said:


> I'd hope they're not, Apple are a pretty atrocious customer unfriendly company selling overpriced machines, their OS is good but as a company they're pretty crap


My experience is that they have one of the best customer support of any large company. The price of their computers has long been high. I’m not happy about it, but it takes some hassle out of the problems I’ve had when I used to use Windows, so I put up with it.


----------



## mangopositive

prodigalson said:


> you only need the 1.2 tb if you're downloading. it's because it downloads it in compressed files and then unpacks the files to your location so by the time it's finished you'll have the unpacked samples (600gb) plus the original downloaded files (600gb). Then it deletes the original files.
> 
> When it comes on the hard drive there's nothing to unpack, it's already there.



So I can get a nice 1 TB m.2 drive, download the program to my 4 TB backup, and unpack & install to the m.2 drive without issue, right?


----------



## jbuhler

prodigalson said:


> you only need the 1.2 tb if you're downloading. it's because it downloads it in compressed files and then unpacks the files to your location so by the time it's finished you'll have the unpacked samples (600gb) plus the original downloaded files (600gb). Then it deletes the original files.
> 
> When it comes on the hard drive there's nothing to unpack, it's already there.


This hasn’t been true for SF libraries for awhile. It may be true for this library because the compression algorithm is new, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it only requires 600GB on the download drive.

ETA: I see that SF Support answered above.


----------



## redlester

5Lives said:


> Any more info on the SSD? A 1TB Samsung EVO is $140, but that is just the drive. Does Spitfire include an enclosure? If so, that's around another $20 and then I imagine shipping costs, so not quite the $200 they are charging, but getting closer. If on the other hand it is just the SSD, significantly cheaper to buy your own and download.



Spitfire told me it's a USB-C SSD, which can be opened and put into a dock (they didn't mention warranty invalidation). I asked if it comes with a USB-C to USB-3 cable and the answer was yes.


----------



## jbuhler

VinRice said:


> Must be why they are doing so badly...


Also Apple’s customer service is not atrocious. I’ve had some bad experiences with it but i’ve mostly had excellent experiences with it and the support I’ve gotten for Logic Pro has always been fabulous. There are other large companies in this business I’ve had much worse customer support experiences with.


----------



## VinRice

I liked the presentation. Relatively short and to the point. Characterful and very Spitfire. I went to the HZ Strings one and that was way overblown for what ended up being a disappointing product for me. It even had a commemorative brochure F.F.S. Having a two month grace period to raise the money is fine by me.


----------



## jbuhler

redlester said:


> Spitfire told me it's a USB-C SSD, which can be opened and put into a dock (they didn't mention warranty invalidation). I asked if it comes with a USB-C to USB-3 cable and the answer was yes.


I was specifically told it would void the warranty to remove the SSD from the enclosure.


----------



## redlester

jbuhler said:


> I was specifically told it would void the warranty to remove the SSD from the enclosure.



I know, that's why I mentioned that they hadn't mentioned that to me. Probably just an oversight.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Just a reminder about that divisi talk...you can make divisi work without dedicated smaller sections..I read so many times..divisi..divisi..in the end the orchestration has to sound fine, programming, expression. If you layer 2 string ensembles on top of each other doesn´t matter at all. Don´t get trapped with all that divisi talk. We are working here with samples not with a real orchestra.


mangopositive said:


> So I can get a nice 1 TB m.2 drive, download the program to my 4 TB backup, and unpack & install to the m.2 drive without issue, right?


Did you read the spitfire comment? You can download it directly to your 1TB drive as it requires just a little more size than the download itself.


----------



## jamwerks

Chungus said:


> I, for one, miss Sasha in the walkthroughs. They just don't sound right without a speaker bearing a thick German accent.


I kind of do too. But thinking of their vast customer base that is not first-language-english, it's probably a very smart move, though you can tell it's still written by Germans.

The ones that are not well done imo are the 8DIO videos. Trolls makes lots of mistakes in english and regularily says incoherent things. Not to mention that there's always 5 minutes too much talking at the beginning.


----------



## AndyP

jamwerks said:


> The "show" should be written with a Copyrighter and then rehersed several times.
> 
> OT has gone a bit in that direction with their voice-over walk-throughs.


I think the way of presentation is fine. I found the OT keynote very artificial and acted. I like what SF did much more because it also reflects their natural way and enthusiasm.
I only find that the product presentation was much too short and the information content too low. That's my only criticism of the show.


----------



## MatteoCarlito

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> You have style too and definitely you seem to understand the elegance of Spitfire. Thank you. And Apple is such a great example, yes. I am so stoked to read that. Can´t wait to see one of your movies. Thank you again.
> :dodgy:



Thank you so much  probably you can get for free on youtube my first movie, independent, 10 years ago, still in a good shape, search for "young europe sub eng"
My last movie, "Lovers" won also a festival in London, but i don't think it will be released outside Italy, anyway, trailer here : 

Regarding the presentation, again, i didn't wanted to criticise, simply a live event is a very difficult "beast". My advice in these situation is talk less, play more. But, again, Spitfire in my mind is the queen of VST, Elegant, posh, noble, great in everything. I can also remember a female musician from Spitfire (maybe from Israel) doing an INCREDIBLE piece of music. And, also, she was beautiful.
This is people to trust, they are really great.


----------



## Eptesicus

Will wait to hear what the legatos are like. Nothing shown so far has demonstrated the legatos. Any library can do shorts etc well.

Where the realism shines or dies is in the legato and in a library's ability to replicate a strong and prominent melody well.

Would also like to hear a strong theme with switches between shorts and longs.


----------



## Symfoniq

Eptesicus said:


> Will wait to hear what the legatos are like. Nothing shown so far has demonstrated the legatos. Any library can do shorts etc well.



This has always been my frustration with Spitfire libraries (and I own many of them, including SSO). Numerous other (and mostly smaller) companies simply do legato much better.

Perhaps AIR Studios is just a difficult room for legato sampling. The BBCSO samples sound like they have less room tail. Here's hoping that translates into better legato.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Eptesicus said:


> Will wait to hear what the legatos are like. Nothing shown so far has demonstrated the legatos. Any library can do shorts etc well.


I don't agree with that at all.

_Variety and consistency_ of shorts are certainly more important for brass and, for my money, more important in winds as well. For brass, it's not uncommon to go entire pieces without needing legato at all, and for winds you can get pretty far with shorts and polyphonic longs that have no connected notes. It's because players breath that not everything is connected.

It's true that legato matters quite a bit for strings, but I certainly don't agree that any library can do shorts well. Didn't Spitfire's most recent string library not have any staccatos?


----------



## Eptesicus

Land of Missing Parts said:


> but I certainly don't agree that any library can do shorts well.



Well, any good library...of which we have many already.

Legato is incredibly important, especially for thematic/film/TV work because the connections _between_ the notes is everything and what makes it sound like an actual performance. It also helps in being more realistic/convincing. One dodgy/bad note transition can end the illusion and immediately make a piece sound fake.

I am sorry but until i hear more and can hear the legatos in full swing, i seriously fail to see the excitement here.

Don't get me wrong though, Blaney's demo does sound fantastic, and very promising. However, one good demo from a very accomplished composer is not enough to get excited about.


----------



## Zedcars

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Just a reminder about that divisi talk...you can make divisi work without dedicated smaller sections..I read so many times..divisi..divisi..in the end the orchestration has to sound fine, programming, expression. If you layer 2 string ensembles on top of each other doesn´t matter at all. Don´t get trapped with all that divisi talk. We are working here with samples not with a real orchestra.


But if your aim is to sound like a real orchestra, which is not always the case, then I think it would matter to some, myself included. With strings, I hear a thinner more intimate sound when I hear a divisi section, whether performed live or with divisi samples. If that’s not something that matters to you, or there is some trick to recreate a divisi sound then that’s perfectly ok. I’m just saying I don’t know of anything that would give me that intimate divisi sound and would definitely be interested in a future update if that is planned.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Zedcars said:


> But if your aim is to sound like a real orchestra, which is not always the case, then I think it would matter to some, myself included. With strings, I hear a thinner more intimate sound when I hear a divisi section, whether performed live or with divisi samples. If that’s not something that matters to you, or there is some trick to recreate a divisi sound then that’s perfectly ok. I’m just saying I don’t know of anything that would give me that intimate divisi sound and would definitely be interested in a future update if that is planned.



My aim is to sound like a real orchestra and realism is very important for me, and still I don´t find that divisi are such of an importance at least to me, bc there are certain techniques in order to make that work also without having dedicated divisi small sections. Sure if you like your divisi thats fine. 

I hope they concentrate on things like recording quiter dynamics properly, having more than just one round robin on sustained, marc etc. articulations, have proper run sections, portamento, and a proper fluid legato. And a cohsive balance within the sections through the range of all the registers and that the new engine lets you mutilate the patches in order to make custom performance patches (like I did with the whole berlin range)


----------



## Zedcars

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> My aim is to sound like a real orchestra and realism is very important for me, and still I don´t find that divisi are such of an importance at least to me, bc there are certain techniques in order to make that work also without having dedicated divisi small sections. Sure if you like your divisi thats fine.
> 
> I hope they concentrate on things like recording quiter dynamics properly, having more than just one round robin on sustained, marc etc. articulations, have proper run sections, portamento, and a proper fluid legato. And a cohsive balance within the sections through the range of all the registers and that the new engine lets you mutilate the patches in order to make custom performance patches (like I did with the whole berlin range)


I agree that all those other things are important.


----------



## jamieboo

Very curious about this!

I know everything is speculation at the moment but what do you think...

I use EW Hollywood Orchestra Diamond pretty exclusively - so I already have the benefit of a whole orchestra in one package (although it seems willfully unbalanced - sometimes different articulations of the same instrument are at unrealistically different volumes!)
I, unlike many, have never had any huge problems with PLAY.
Certain inconsistencies with Hollywood have irritated me. ie, C11 controls dynamics/expression for some instruments, CC1 controls it for others.
I tend to write dense, busy, John Williams wannabe style music!

Given all this stuff - and again, this requires silly speculation - but do you think BBC SO might be a good upgrade for me?
I mean, Hollywood is getting on a bit now, so just the improvement in methods/tech/programming might lead to a 'better' virtual orchestra, right?

What do you think?


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> My aim is to sound like a real orchestra and realism is very important for me, and still I don´t find that divisi are such of an importance at least to me, bc there are certain techniques in order to make that work also without having dedicated divisi small sections. Sure if you like your divisi thats fine.
> 
> I hope they concentrate on things like recording quiter dynamics properly, having more than just one round robin on sustained, marc etc. articulations, have proper run sections, portamento, and a proper fluid legato. And a cohsive balance within the sections through the range of all the registers and that the new engine lets you mutilate the patches in order to make custom performance patches (like I did with the whole berlin range)


Divisi becomes more noticeable if you divide your strings more than just once though. If you mock up this Debussy passage with BBC SO you'd have _178 strings playing_!

_



_


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Divisi becomes more noticeable if you divide your strings more than just once though. If you mock up this Debussy passage with BBC SO you'd have _178 strings playing_!
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _


Yes, and then you should make plans and thoughts how to make that work. And please don´t count that sample stack, that is theory and it doesn´t work like you might think. Go by what you hear in a reference and don´t repeat what others say. It falls totally apart, believe me. Its again not a live orchestra. I can assure you that I have done a lot of experiments with such things and mocked up 100s of pieces and know exactly that this number counting system:" oh don´t do this because you have now 48 violins" is ..imho total crap and it is not how you make great mockups.


----------



## rottoy

Land of Missing Parts said:


> you'd have _178 strings playing_!


A wise man once told me that all you need to keep everybody happy is 69 strings.
No more, no less.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

jamieboo said:


> Given all this stuff - and again, this requires silly speculation - but do you think BBC SO might be a good upgrade for me?
> I mean, Hollywood is getting on a bit now, so just the improvement in methods/tech/programming might lead to a 'better' virtual orchestra, right?



I'm on the same train of thought, but really, the Hollywood stuff is still IMO one of the best out there. Without having heard the walkthroughs yet, it's hard to know how BBC actually sounds at the individual patch level. I will always use Hollywood Strings/Brass, but have been wanting to invest in another high quality orchestral library. I have a strong felling that this is the one. For $750 USD, it seems almost too good to be true, especially since they allow two licenses; in my case, one for each machine (master/slave). So if I hear enough to be satisfied, I'll definitely be buying this.


----------



## Digivolt

prodigalson said:


> you only need the 1.2 tb if you're downloading. it's because it downloads it in compressed files and then unpacks the files to your location so by the time it's finished you'll have the unpacked samples (600gb) plus the original downloaded files (600gb). Then it deletes the original files.
> 
> When it comes on the hard drive there's nothing to unpack, it's already there.



That doesn't make any sense, you're downloading compressed samples, to uncompress them to be exactly the same size as the compressed size ?

It's worth noting I've never noticed any kind of unpacking/installing when I download Labs stuff, it just downloads and it's ready to go, I'd imagine (having not bought any Spitfire products yet) it's the same process ?


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Digivolt said:


> That doesn't make any sense, you're downloading compressed samples, to uncompress them to be exactly the same size as the compressed size ?
> 
> It's worth noting I've never noticed any kind of unpacking/installing when I download Labs stuff, it just downloads and it's ready to go, I'd imagine (having not bought any Spitfire products yet) it's the same process ?



The old process was that the samples were compressed already but downloaded as a kind of compressed archieve which wasn´t increasing the effectiveness much more to lower thieir size, so it was more of a thing not to have to deal with downloading so many single files which was then handled with the decompression routine after the download was done.

Probably they developed a better routine with the new player and while downloading that chunks get decompressed and deleted while the new files are downloaded. Its like a fifo system + deleting the files once they are not anymore in use. But thats an assumption.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

rottoy said:


> A wise man once told me that all you need to keep everybody happy is 69 strings.
> No more, no less.


Are you sure that "wise" man wasn't just Troels pitching his new legion series library?


----------



## jamwerks

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Divisi becomes more noticeable if you divide your strings more than just once though. If you mock up this Debussy passage with BBC SO you'd have _178 strings playing_!
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _


That's where a library SCS sounds great. Both Berlin Strings & Century Strings that have 8 V1's might sound odd here, as would a half BBC V1 section of 8 players.


----------



## redlester

MatteoCarlito said:


> Regarding the presentation, again, i didn't wanted to criticise, simply a live event is a very difficult "beast". My advice in these situation is talk less, play more.



If it were a product demonstration, I would agree. But this was an announcement of a future product, not a full blown demo. The demo's are still to come. When they've finished the actual product!


----------



## Digivolt

jbuhler said:


> Also Apple’s customer service is not atrocious. I’ve had some bad experiences with it but i’ve mostly had excellent experiences with it and the support I’ve gotten for Logic Pro has always been fabulous. There are other large companies in this business I’ve had much worse customer support experiences with.



Without turning this into an Apple thread, just go watch some Louis Rossman vids to see how awful Apple actually are or read up on their lawsuit with Henrik Huseby which they lost, that's all I'll say on this matter as I'm not getting into a debate over whether Apple or good or bad I've seen enough to know they're terrible and very anti-consumer and absolutely detest any independent electronics repair folk who dare try to repair their products


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Eptesicus said:


> Legato is incredibly important, especially for thematic/film/TV work because the connections _between_ the notes is everything and what makes it sound like an actual performance. It also helps in being more realistic/convincing. One dodgy/bad note transition can end the illusion and immediately make a piece sound fake.


Interesting, I've never heard of this.


----------



## rottoy

Everyone knows "legato" was invented by Leonard Bernstein back in the 50s, to cover up deficiencies in the orchestration of West Side Story.


----------



## 667

Digivolt said:


> That doesn't make any sense, you're downloading compressed samples, to uncompress them to be exactly the same size as the compressed size ?
> 
> It's worth noting I've never noticed any kind of unpacking/installing when I download Labs stuff, it just downloads and it's ready to go, I'd imagine (having not bought any Spitfire products yet) it's the same process ?


It is indeed the process for some of the libraries. Basically the samples are wrapped in RAR files which need to be downloaded as a full set and then extracted. This is extremely common with many downloading systems all over the software world. Even with Native Access, I just bought Audiobro Genesis and it required 2x the sample size to download and install.

LABS instruments are small but you will notice when you go to download something big.


----------



## jbuhler

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I don't agree with that at all.
> 
> _Variety and consistency_ of shorts are certainly more important for brass and, for my money, more important in winds as well. For brass, it's not uncommon to go entire pieces without needing legato at all, and for winds you can get pretty far with shorts and polyphonic longs that have no connected notes. It's because players breath that not everything is connected.
> 
> It's true that legato matters quite a bit for strings, but I certainly don't agree that any library can do shorts well. Didn't Spitfire's most recent string library not have any staccatos?


SCS is a great library and that’s not due to its legato. At the same time legato is often overemphasized in the evaluation of the utility of sample libraries.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

rottoy said:


> Everyone knows "legato" was invented by Leonard Bernstein back in the 50s, to cover up deficiencies in the orchestration of West Side Story.


Pop quiz. Which brass library has the best legato: Forzo, Caspian Brass, Angry Brass Pro, Trailer Brass, Adventure Brass, or Metropolis Ark 1?


----------



## jbuhler

Digivolt said:


> Without turning this into an Apple thread, just go watch some Louis Rossman vids to see how awful Apple actually are or read up on their lawsuit with Henrik Huseby which they lost, that's all I'll say on this matter as I'm not getting into a debate over whether Apple or good or bad I've seen enough to know they're terrible and very anti-consumer and absolutely detest any independent electronics repair folk who dare try to repair their products


So you don’t like Apple. Noted.


----------



## Chungus

jamwerks said:


> I kind of do too. But thinking of their vast customer base that is not first-language-english, it's probably a very smart move, though you can tell it's still written by Germans.
> 
> The ones that are not well done imo are the 8DIO videos. Trolls makes lots of mistakes in english and regularily says incoherent things. Not to mention that there's always 5 minutes too much talking at the beginning.


English isn't my native language, either. I'm Dutch.

I'm definitely with you in not caring for 8Dio's walkthroughs. I've also seen a few from Virharmonic that while not_ bad_, contained a couple of awkward hiccups.


jamieboo said:


> Very curious about this!
> 
> I know everything is speculation at the moment but what do you think...
> 
> I use EW Hollywood Orchestra Diamond pretty exclusively - so I already have the benefit of a whole orchestra in one package (although it seems willfully unbalanced - sometimes different articulations of the same instrument are at unrealistically different volumes!)
> I, unlike many, have never had any huge problems with PLAY.
> Certain inconsistencies with Hollywood have irritated me. ie, C11 controls dynamics/expression for some instruments, CC1 controls it for others.
> I tend to write dense, busy, John Williams wannabe style music!
> 
> Given all this stuff - and again, this requires silly speculation - but do you think BBC SO might be a good upgrade for me?
> I mean, Hollywood is getting on a bit now, so just the improvement in methods/tech/programming might lead to a 'better' virtual orchestra, right?
> 
> What do you think?


I'd say the best thing to do, would be to wait until more information is available on how BBCSO sounds exposed, and how it handles.



rottoy said:


> _A wise man once told me that all you need to keep everybody happy is 69 strings.
> No more, no less._



( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I'm wondering which brass library has the best legato--Forzo, Caspian Brass, Angry Brass Pro, Trailer Brass, Adventure Brass, or Metropolis Ark 1?



Don´t forget old HWB :dodgy: 

Still imo some very exquisite 6 French Horn Patch (both normal and slurred)


----------



## rottoy

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I'm wondering which brass library has the best legato--Forzo, Caspian Brass, Angry Brass Pro, Trailer Brass, Adventure Brass, or Metropolis Ark 1?


I've heard some good things about Angry Trailer by Caspian Ark.


----------



## jamieboo

Wolfie2112 said:


> I'm on the same train of thought, but really, the Hollywood stuff is still IMO one of the best out there. Without having heard the walkthroughs yet, it's hard to know how BBC actually sounds at the individual patch level. I will always use Hollywood Strings/Brass, but have been wanting to invest in another high quality orchestral library. I have a strong felling that this is the one. For $750 USD, it seems almost too good to be true, especially since they allow two licenses; in my case, one for each machine (master/slave). So if I hear enough to be satisfied, I'll definitely be buying this.



Thanks for the response Wolfie2112
Yeah, we need to hear more.
I feel very naïve though - I've only ever used EastWest stuff. I might try a Spitfire product like this and be instantly exhilarated by comparative ease of use as well as the sound!

Any other thoughts on this?
Ludicrously speculative of course, and we need to hear much more demo, but is this likely to be a step up from the venerable Hollywood Orchestra Diamond?


----------



## Ruffian Price

I sure hope Spitfire includes Maida Vale IRs for blending other libraries. I get that it's _the complete package_, but you'll still want to mix stuff in.

...and a positioning chart for close microphones, if they want this to be used in object-based workflows. I guess you can figure that out trial-and-error from the bed channels, so that's optional. But it'd be a bummer if they didn't record any IRs.


----------



## rudi

Digivolt said:


> Without turning this into an Apple thread, just go watch some Louis Rossman vids to see how awful Apple actually are or read up on their lawsuit with Henrik Huseby which they lost, that's all I'll say on this matter as I'm not getting into a debate over whether Apple or good or bad I've seen enough to know they're terrible and very anti-consumer and absolutely detest any independent electronics repair folk who dare try to repair their products



Yes, they have been making life more and more difficult for independent repair shops, but it looks like they are about to relax their policy somewhat which is good news:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/29/20838307/apple-iphone-repairs-parts-independent-shops


----------



## Vik

I'm impressed with the sound (in terms of realism, clarity, depth and more), and like many others I look forward to more demos. The almost monophonic-ish examples I heard on the YouTube presentation (YT combined with mixing room sound and direct sound of course has its limitations) sounded a lot less favourable than the Andy B demo not on YouTube.

Having a the-truth-is-in-the details approach to orchestral libraries, I'm really curious about dynamic layers, vibrato, note starts and endings – and legatos, of course. Also, I wonder if this lib mainly is meant as a brilliant starting point for new VI users or if it tries to compete with the really great libraries out there.... can it, for instance, compete with great string libraries like SCS, CSS, BS and Afflatus in terms of expressivity and nuance? My main hope for this library (and I'm not optimistic about this) is that it at some point in the future will be sold in a modular way, as I don't need brass samples much and already have some really good string libraries.


----------



## 5Lives

One of the bigger benefits for me with this library is the support system Spitfire is building around it - pre-made Logic templates, MIDI mockups that you can just load up and play and learn from - no programming necessary, etc. Nobody else is doing anything close to that. It’s almost like creating a full fledged “composing environment” (like a development environment). Christian mentioned multiple times of how he hasn’t been formally trained and he doesn’t want the lack of formal training to block people from making music.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Digivolt said:


> Without turning this into an Apple thread, just go watch some Louis Rossman vids to see how awful Apple actually are or read up on their lawsuit with Henrik Huseby which they lost, that's all I'll say on this matter as I'm not getting into a debate over whether Apple or good or bad I've seen enough to know they're terrible and very anti-consumer and absolutely detest any independent electronics repair folk who dare try to repair their products



Well, for what it's worth, I've earned decent money over the years thanks to my Mac. I'm not concerned if Apple as a company is good or bad, and I don't really care. I have always met my deadlines and the Mac has been a reliable tool for my studio.


----------



## Alex Fraser

miket said:


> I think we're the only ones still on 2011 iMacs, hah. I can always count on you having the same problems I do.


Haha, yep! The machine is still capable though. Getting stuff in and out is the issue..


----------



## jaketanner

MaxOctane said:


> I gotta say, this discussion about recording empty chairs, and capturing the sound of players breathing ("_does it add too much noise?_") is, truly, P*eak Spitfire*.


Yeah, empty chairs is half the picture. Those chairs needed bodies in them to truly capture what they intended. It’s like they couldn’t go that extra mile to get anyone off the streets to fill those seats. Empty chairs doesn’t give the right ambience for what those bleed Mics intentions are. Unfortunately.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

jaketanner said:


> Yeah, empty chairs is half the picture. Those chairs needed bodies in them to truly capture what they intended. It’s like they couldn’t go that extra mile to get anyone off the streets to fill those seats. Empty chairs doesn’t give the right ambience for what those bleed Mics intentions are. Unfortunately.


I think most of the bleed mic input comes from instruments bleeding into mics of other instruments. Not sure if people on the chairs really play such a big role in that regard.


----------



## jaketanner

Manuel Stumpf said:


> I think most of the bleed mic input comes from instruments bleeding into mics of other instruments. Not sure if people on the chairs really play such a big role in that regard.


They do in terms of ambience. More bodies in the hall suck up more reverb as this is the natural decay of the room as it was intended. To be filled with musicians and not empty. Empty it would have more ambience and I’m suspecting that Air studios is the same. The libraries might actually be wetter than they normally would be when filled with a full orchestra.


----------



## BassClef

jaketanner said:


> They do in terms of ambience. More bodies in the hall suck up more reverb as this is the natural decay of the room as it was intended. To be filled with musicians and not empty. Empty it would have more ambience and I’m suspecting that Air studios is the same. The libraries might actually be wetter than they normally would be when filled with a full orchestra.



Exactly... just like throwing a full carpet on the floor would have a large impact on room dynamics!


----------



## ism

jaketanner said:


> They do in terms of ambience. More bodies in the hall suck up more reverb as this is the natural decay of the room as it was intended. To be filled with musicians and not empty. Empty it would have more ambience and I’m suspecting that Air studios is the same. The libraries might actually be wetter than they normally would be when filled with a full orchestra.




Do an extra 20 or so people in the audience make a similar difference? I understand your acoustic argument, but I'm still curious if this is really a first, or even second, or third order effect.

For it would be a very easy thing to do it was really that important - just use sacks of flour or something with simply acoustic reflective properties to musicians.

Going to be diminishing returns on this. Like do musicians wearing tweed have the same acoustic reflective properties as musicians wearing polyester?

(I quite like acoustics, although I've tend to work myself more with things quantum fields more that relatively pedestrian things like wobbly air. So not sure how much my expertise really transfers usefully here.  )


----------



## richhickey

Vik said:


> I'm impressed with the sound (in terms of realism, clarity, depth and more), and like many others I look forward to more demos.
> 
> Having a the-truth-is-in-the details approach to orchestral libraries, I'm really curious about dynamic layers, vibrato, note starts and endings – and legatos, of course. Also, I wonder if this lib mainly is meant as a brilliant starting point for new VI users or if it tries to compete with the really great libraries out there.... can it, for instance, compete with great string libraries like SCS, CSS, BS and Afflatus in terms of expressivity and nuance?



Exactly my concern. After all, the product page says:

*BBC SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA*
A UNIVERSAL STARTING POINT

"Starting point" seems not something one would say about a complete, workhorse, pro-oriented library.


----------



## Ruffian Price

ism said:


> Going to be diminishing returns on this. Like do musicians wearing tweed have the same acoustic reflective properties as musicians wearing polyester?


Also, there's the instruments. I'd wager a double bass player is more reflective than absorbent.

Still, just imagine paying all these people to be present on every section's recording session.


----------



## erica-grace

Has SFA said that they seated an entire orchestra for each session? Or are we just speculating?


----------



## Fleer

Speculating? Us?


----------



## jaketanner

ism said:


> Do an extra 20 or so people in the audience make a similar difference? I understand your acoustic argument, but I'm still curious if this is really a first, or even second, or third order effect.
> 
> For it would be a very easy thing to do it was really that important - just use sacks of flour or something with simply acoustic reflective properties to musicians.
> 
> Going to be diminishing returns on this. Like do musicians wearing tweed have the same acoustic reflective properties as musicians wearing polyester?
> 
> (I quite like acoustics, although I've tend to work myself more with things quantum fields more that relatively pedestrian things like wobbly air. So not sure how much my expertise really transfers usefully here.  )


I think it's much more than 20 people. A full orchestra is a minimum of 80 people. So if 80 people were to fill the seats that the mics are pointing at, I am sure there would be a difference in ambient reverberation. However, I get your point also, perhaps it was tried before? Not sure...but it seems to me that if they open the mics of empty seats...makes more logical sense to have them filled as well.


----------



## robgb

Ruffian Price said:


> I sure hope Spitfire includes Maida Vale IRs for blending other libraries. I get that it's _the complete package_, but you'll still want to mix stuff in.
> 
> ...and a positioning chart for close microphones, if they want this to be used in object-based workflows. I guess you can figure that out trial-and-error from the bed channels, so that's optional. But it'd be a bummer if they didn't record any IRs.


Agreed, but you could always make your own.


----------



## Zedcars

jaketanner said:


> Yeah, empty chairs is half the picture. Those chairs needed bodies in them to truly capture what they intended. It’s like they couldn’t go that extra mile to get anyone off the streets to fill those seats. Empty chairs doesn’t give the right ambience for what those bleed Mics intentions are. Unfortunately.


But we don’t know that they didn’t do that, or have they stated as much? 667 said they have done it before at Air:





__





Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


how's the performance of SA's own player? Is it better than Kontakt ? This is one reason I’m holding back. The player is ok but the spitfire app might be a bit problematic, hence affecting the player, example I get a lot of authorisation and reauthorisation problem from time to time. Problem...




vi-control.net





Maybe with a comparatively dry room such as this one they felt it would sound too dry with extra absorbency, even if more true to reality. The ears are the final judge, rather than a more accurately simulated environment (the best sound isn’t necessarily dependent upon that).

Or perhaps they did use dummies or sacks of sand or whatever in those empty seats. It would be nice to get more detail on this.


----------



## VinRice

jaketanner said:


> Not sure...but it seems to me that if they open the mics of empty seats...makes more logical sense to have them filled as well



... but it clearly makes no practical or financial sense for a minuscule potential increase in 'realism' or we would be swimming in such libraries.


----------



## NoamL

VinRice said:


> ... but it clearly makes no practical or financial sense for a minuscule potential increase in 'realism' or we would be swimming in such libraries.



Auddict has woodwind spots in their brass libraries.

EDIT: from their Master Brass product: _"You might have noticed that one of the perspectives included is "woodwind spots". While this is not a woodwind library, the mics that spot the woodwinds were set up and included in the recording. The reason for this, is that a lot of the brass sound bleeds heavily into the woodwind mics in scoring sessions, adding to the perceived depth of the sound, so whilst pushing to achieve the most versatile, we felt that this absolutely had to be included."_

This [i.e. woodwind spots recording the brass] is also the perspective that I'd expect to be the most crucial, and it's the specific example Paul & Christian brought up in their anecdote with John Powell.

If you think about it -

the strings are mostly recording directly into the Decca tree and there is no intervening instrument section or mic set up.

the woodwinds are also recording straight ahead, any sound cast backwards is incidental and could be caught with the ambient/rear mics anyway. The woodwinds will get picked up by the string spots a little (especially viola).

In real life it's the spill from the brass & percussion that is probably hardest to avoid, first because of sheer volume and second because they are recording forward over and across the other instruments (albeit indirectly in the case of the horns). Therefore to replicate real life scoring conditions you need woodwind and string mics to be open when recording brass and perc.


----------



## 667

Engineers have been correctly mic'ing these rooms for literally generations. They do not bring in 200 people and tell them to be a silent audience when recording a film score. They manipulate the room, mics, treatment, mass, etc. so it sounds the way they want it to sound in the recordings. Air for example you can literally raise/lower the ceiling to modify the sound, get the sound you want. So it's been a solved problem for a long, long time and I doubt very much SFA would have overlooked it for BBCSO.


----------



## SomeGuy

Sorry if this has been asked already. I know you can install it on two computers, but the checkout page has options for Mac and PC. I own/use both formats. Would I be able to install and use this on both my machines?


----------



## jcrosby

Somehow I get the impression that Joe Strummer wouldn’t approve.


----------



## AEF

Brilliant concept that seems to be the groundwork for a new ecosystem. 

Strings seemed a bit hidden in the demos, and wasn’t in love with what I heard when exposed briefly, despite Andy’s work being otherworldly as usual.


----------



## jamwerks

I don't get the importance of including mic bleed for orchestral recording. The brass and/or woodwinds are often isolated from the strings hoping to avoid this. The brass sounds that bleed into mono spot mic's for the woodwinds have no meaningful left-right front-back room information. It would seem to me that the more of the bleed you include, the less 3d becomes the soundstage?


----------



## Sovereign

ism said:


> Do an extra 20 or so people in the audience make a similar difference? I understand your acoustic argument, but I'm still curious if this is really a first, or even second, or third order effect.


You might find this interesting: "Most stages show a reduction in the average reverberation time T20 of 5%–10% after putting the orchestra on stage as can be expected."

So while I'd say the difference is not necessarily insignificant, I'm not really worried. The reverberation time sounds fine based on what I heard. And we still don't know if Spitfire did indeed account for this.


----------



## Parsifal666

I like music said:


> So you're asking for a world class live orchestra that lives in your house, then?



Wait, that's _*NOT*_ what we all want?

















lol


----------



## meradium

I hope they will give us some demo patches (e.g. 3 consecutive notes to also test the legato) to get a feel for the real thing. I am loaded with stuff... unless there is a really compelling reason to "upgrade" or "side-grade" there is no way I am going to spend more money any time soon...


----------



## jaketanner

VinRice said:


> ... but it clearly makes no practical or financial sense for a minuscule potential increase in 'realism' or we would be swimming in such libraries.


You say clearly, but to me it was very clear, being a recording engineer, that you should have had open mics this whole time, yet SF JUST implemented this based off what Powell said...after how many years? So I think that it's not something that they've ever considered and probably should experiment with. As for financial sense, how would it cost to have ANY bodies in those seats? just sitting there...really it's not a financial issue but one they simply didn't think of I'd imagine. Imagine a brass section in the back of the room playing their instruments...wouldn't you think the sound would vary from the conductor's perspective if there were bodies in-between the brass and the conductor?


----------



## rudi

Sovereign said:


> You might find this interesting: "Most stages show a reduction in the average reverberation time T20 of 5%–10% after putting the orchestra on stage as can be expected."
> 
> So while I'd say the difference is not necessarily insignificant, I'm not really worried. The reverberation time sounds fine based on what I heard. And we still don't know if Spitfire did indeed account for this.


I love academic papers and the way they devise and carry out objective measurements. One little gem from the above paper:

"...the sound absorption of people is mostly dependant on the clothing. Men wearing a suit absorb sound up to two times more than women wearing a summerdress, and persons in bathing suits absorb very little..."

They go on to experiment with various combinations, including dummies.

I think the next step is to account for the above and add some more variables.
I propose the following for starters:

- audience numbers (full house, monday matinee, friday evening in Blackpool )
- audience clothing based on the season (winter clothing would absorb more than summer clothing)
- musician clothing (casual, semi-casual, full concert regalia)
- musician acoustic absorption (based on gender mix, corpulence and average height)
- a choice of padding for the seats (wood, wood with thin cushion, silk cushions, thin and thick damask)
- material for the music stands (plastic, wood, metal frame, flat metal with circular holes, metal, aluminium)
- a choice of floor an wall materials (solid wood, vintage wood, treated wood, draps, loose fabric, to keep it simple)
- atmospheric temperature and humidity, with an optional air conditioning setting

_I am sure I missed some really important other factors... _


----------



## styledelk

SomeGuy said:


> Sorry if this has been asked already. I know you can install it on two computers, but the checkout page has options for Mac and PC. I own/use both formats. Would I be able to install and use this on both my machines?



Their store interface doesn't make this clear-- that's just for the SSD option, to get the SSD formatted for Mac or PC. If you were downloading it, it's just the Pre Order button above it (which will be essentially universal, since it's downloading through the Spitfire library tool on either mac or PC).


----------



## infomason

jamwerks said:


> I don't get the importance of including mic bleed for orchestral recording. The brass and/or woodwinds are often isolated from the strings hoping to avoid this. The brass sounds that bleed into mono spot mic's for the woodwinds have no meaningful left-right front-back room information. It would seem to me that the more of the bleed you include, the less 3d becomes the soundstage?



I think what Spitfire was shooting for was to connect the instrument sound waves across the room as you might experience them from an audience perspective. At a concert when a trumpeter plays a solo part from the back of the room, you're hearing some of the direct sound, but you're also hearing what bounces off the cello and bass section to the front right, the second violins on the front left, the wall behind the trumpet, acoustic treatments, and so on. 

That seems to be a key difference between hearing samples mixed together in post production, versus live concerts where you're basically hearing all instruments bleeding into each other from everywhere. Post production engineers strive to make sampled instruments sound like they were played at the same time, in effect simulating mic bleed and cross vibration, usually with a common reverb. Spitfire has gone the distance by seeking to do it with those extra mic perspectives. 

I did A/B comparisons between the BBC demos and some of my favorite Prokofiev recordings and found them to be the closest match yet. Revisiting the now somewhat legacy SSO, even with the room's natural reverberation, it's sections sounded more like separate entities within the larger ensembles. 

The effect of having sections that don't quite sound like they were played together may be a plus in some film scoring scenarios, but for sounding like you're at a concert hall where everybody is playing in close proximity at the same time, the BBC orchestra seems to be a breakthrough in sampling tech. I can only imagine what the soloists and sections sound like when used individually, but clearly the full orchestral scores by Andy and Christian sounded great. 

As Paul Thompson mentions in regard to sections, the instruments vibrate off each other and further enhance the overall sound. It would seem that the entire orchestra also excites cross-vibration from the Contra-bass tubas up to the piccolos. Maybe that's something that sample tech will tackle in future, striving for absolute realism. All above said, it must be nice for the folks that can hire the London symphony for their scores.


----------



## Zedcars

rudi said:


> I love academic papers and the way they devise and carry out objective measurements. One little gem from the above paper:
> 
> "...the sound absorption of people is mostly dependant on the clothing. Men wearing a suit absorb sound up to two times more than women wearing a summerdress, and persons in bathing suits absorb very little..."
> 
> They go on to experiment with various combinations, including dummies.
> 
> I think the next step is to account for the above and add some more variables.
> I propose the following for starters:
> 
> - audience numbers (full house, monday matinee, friday evening in Blackpool )
> - audience clothing based on the season (winter clothing would absorb more than summer clothing)
> - musician clothing (casual, semi-casual, full concert regalia)
> - musician acoustic absorption (based on gender mix, corpulence and average height)
> - a choice of padding for the seats (wood, wood with thin cushion, silk cushions, thin and thick damask)
> - material for the music stands (plastic, wood, metal frame, flat metal with circular holes, metal, aluminium)
> - a choice of floor an wall materials (solid wood, vintage wood, treated wood, draps, loose fabric, to keep it simple)
> - atmospheric temperature and humidity, with an optional air conditioning setting
> 
> _I am sure I missed some really important other factors... _


Funny you should mention the player's clothing affecting the sound absorption. I did some digging and it turns out there is another page on the Spitfire plugin which allows detailed control of the orchestra's attire, but I think it's still under development:


----------



## jamwerks

To give the sound of the trumpet from a listening perspective, you need mic's in key listening spots. That's exactly where the tree, outrigger and surround mic's are. The placement of the woodwind mic's are like off directional mid-mic's to the brass. What's that bring to the sound? Mid-mic's (between close & tree) are an interesting perspective, so why not just include properly placed mid-mic's? Since when are unproperly placed mic's suddenly desired?

In the course of a full orchestra performance, sound waves from certain nstruments interact with those from others, and some of that picked up in across-stage close mic's during a performance could prove "musical" and useful. But none of that is going on when sampling individual notes, one player or section at a time...


----------



## David Gosnell

Apologies in advance for what is likely to be unfiltered opinion-vomit. 

I guess first, I did really like the sound of the demos. I always felt with SF's Air recordings that what I really wanted was a button which kept the early reflections and got rid of the tails. Recording in highly reverberant spaces which are largely empty does produce sounds that are tough to wrangle if you are trying to write speed and detail. The BBC recording do seem to have captured space with much less mud. TBF - and I'd love to know how he does it - Andy has always been able to get a clarity out of the SF libraries that no-one else comes even close to. I'm not sure how much is the way he writes (there is mostly a section focus at any one moment with very little tutti) and how much is the way he mixes. The SF Albion and Symphony series always had patches that sounded great on their own, but the more you added together the more the headaches begin. It is kind of the converse to OT, where individual patches can sound a bit thin, but then when you add them together it all starts to come to life.

I can't imagine too many of us have been sitting in studios really hoping someone would come out with a new sample player. Kontakt for all it's issues does have a lot of good points. I too make use of the Multis, and treasure the fact I can swap different string sections - combining VEP and Kontakt multis - with a couple of clicks, knowing I've already done all the tweaks before that will make everything just balance. And, I guess if the SF/BBC 'out of the box' is a sound I really love then it will only take about 6 months of tears to get everything reset to blend well with it. VEP should be able I hope to remember all the settings for SF/BBC and kind of take the place of the Kontakt Multi capability.

I assume what seems to be a very attractive price point is to get people like me, who own pretty much all the SF Kontakt based orchestral stuff, to adopt and use their new player. If I get on with it, then I won't be bitching 12 months down the line when they announce switching all their future library updates away from Kontakt. If they did that today, when I've never used their player, I would probably just switch to a template that excluded SF going forward. If this tactic convinces me to adopt their player - I guess I don't have a problem with that if they're giving me a year to get used to it - and sweetening the deal with a very useful BBCSO sample kit.

I've been trying to think of a diplomatic way to put this - so here goes. If I go to the Proms to hear Mahler 2 performed by The Berlin Phil under Rattle, I get excited. If I go to the proms to hear Mahler 2 performed by The BBCSO under Oramo - I get there early to have a couple of extra drinks at the bar before kick-off.

The idea of an orchestra which performs well together as an ensemble is theoretically attractive. However, I'm kind of uncertain about the whole 'big name' thing that has influenced orchestral sample library marketing for the last 10 years. Orchestra A in Room B with engineer C works really well for performance D. But I'm not hiring a room and orchestra and an engineer to record a musical performance - I'm laying a tonne of audio files on top of each other and trying to fake it. I need players who are really good at recording individual notes in a very consistent way (volume, pitch, timbre etc.,) - despite the boringness of the task - and injecting a little humanity into their individual notes. I want a room and a mic set up that allows me a lot of flexibility as well as having as realistic a sound as possible baked in. I need a recording engineer who understands the challenges of composing and mixing with samples, and gets exactly how to record individual instruments so they can sound good solo and stacked as well. I appreciate that Grammy winning engineers, hallowed studios and world class orchestras are very special - but I also think the recording sessions part of creating great sample libraries requires a whole other set of skills and knowledge as well.

If I sit down to write a cue today - I probably spend 10% of my time composing, 20% programming, 60% on mixing and 10% on mastering. Pretty much every instrument needs it's sends tweaked, needs a unique EQ and then on top of that, everything needs to be automated as the cue goes on so I retain clarity, balance and realism across all volume levels. For example, SF timpani would need pretty careful mic settings, automated reverb send, automated eq, automated volume, a gate to cut back on the huge early reflections and tail and parallel multiband compression to give it more clarity and punch. Multiply that by every instrument. If SF/BBC starts to reduce the mixing element of my workflow so I could spend more time on the composition - I would let Paul and Christian use my buttocks as a toast rack.

The devil is of course in the detail. Andy's demo had pretty close percussion and brass, with kind of distant high strings and woodwind and very distant low strings. Hopefully that was a stylistic choice rather than hiding things the library isn't so good at (I would love to see one of his DAW files! ). In terms of both this launch and other launches in general; demos can certainly be misleading - but walk-throughs where the presenter kind of noodles around in an unprepared way can also sell a library short. I kind of like the Daniel James approach of sitting down and actually trying to do the job with a library. Writing a track before your eyes really tells you a lot about what a library can and cant do.

I don't mind if developers do this in a really slick and prepared way rather than Daniel's live 'trial and error' style, if they want to show their products in the best light. I don't need to see them inputting the data, I'm happy to be presented a completed track and then be talked through how they put it together. So long as there's no cheating and the end result shows us exactly what programming and plug ins were used to create the final track - I think that's fair. I don't even need a walkthrough - in an ideal world, they would provide me with a Cubase file that I can just load up and connect to their libraries and it sounds the same in my studio as it does on their demo (maybe just using built in DAW plug-ins?). In fact, just a file with midi and stems that doesn't connect to libraries would tell me a lot - on the understanding that the stems were 'out-of-the-box'. I'm sure there are even guys out there who would do this for them in return for a free copy of the product; I don't see a conflict of interest there - the composer is just doing their best with the tools provided, they're not endorsing it - just like any other job we do. Maybe I'm just riding a unicorn with that suggestion tbf.

Apologies once again for the opinion-laden stream of consciousness - just felt it was my duty to the community to push this thread toward 100 pages before any of us really knows what we're talking about.


----------



## Garry

Zedcars said:


> Funny you should mention the player's clothing affecting the sound absorption. I did some digging and it turns out there is another page on the Spitfire plugin which allows detailed control of the orchestra's attire, but I think it's still under development:


Is there a prize for best comment of the year!!!! THIS is my nomination!!


----------



## rudi

David Gosnell said:


> If I sit down to write a cue today - I probably spend 10% of my time composing, 30% programming, 60% on mixing and 10% on mastering. Pretty much every instrument needs it's sends tweaked, needs a unique EQ and then on top of that, everything needs to be automated as the cue goes on so I retain clarity, balance and realism across all volume levels. For example, SF timpani would need pretty careful mic settings, automated reverb send, automated eq, automated volume, a gate to cut back on the huge early reflections and tail and parallel multiband compression to give it more clarity and punch. Multiply that by every instrument. If SF/BBC starts to reduce the mixing element of my workflow so I could spend more time on the composition - I would let Paul and Christian use my buttocks as a toast rack.



I am a beginner when it comes to VI composition -- I have mostly played keyboards and drums with live bands where you concentrate on the music and performance and let the mixing engineer deal with the sound balance and EQ. One of the most difficult area I have encountered is the mixing stage, trying to achieve a realistic sound and balance. 

One of the attractions of BBCSO for me, is having a homogeneous starting point instead of trying to blend several different libraries. I realise that there will still be the need to refine any mix, but having a decent, comprehensive, well balanced library at a reasonable cost appeals to me. 

I have already spent a fair amount on other sample libaries, so I will wait and evaluate the walkthroughs when they come before I take the plunge, but it sounds promising. Looking forward to exploring and refining my compositions.


----------



## rudi

Garry said:


> Is there a prize for best comment of the year!!!! THIS is my nomination!!



Seconded!!!


----------



## mikeh-375

@Zedcars - I've never ever seen sartorial elegance in a live room, so the effect will be a cheap one, jeans, trainers etc. What the hell is a Farthingale?????


----------



## Garry

mikeh-375 said:


> @Zedcars - I've never ever seen sartorial elegance in a live room, so the effect will be a cheap one, jeans, trainers etc. What the hell is a Farthingale?????


Google tells me (yes, I had no idea either!): "

a hooped petticoat or circular pad of fabric around the hips, formerly worn under women's skirts to extend and shape them.
You really have to admire that degree of attention to detail!!!


----------



## VinRice

NoamL said:


> Auddict has woodwind spots in their brass libraries.





jaketanner said:


> You say clearly, but to me it was very clear, being a recording engineer, that you should have had open mics this whole time



I have no issue at all with the open mic concept - I understand that completely having been a sound engineer for many years in my first career, that's a question of phase and delay and reflection. I have a practical and financial issue with the concept of putting dummy bodies in 80 odd seats for an absorption effect that can easily be achieved by other means.


----------



## VinRice

Zedcars said:


> Funny you should mention the player's clothing affecting the sound absorption. I did some digging and it turns out there is another page on the Spitfire plugin which allows detailed control of the orchestra's attire, but I think it's still under development:



Outstanding...


----------



## Zedcars

mikeh-375 said:


> @Zedcars - I've never ever seen sartorial elegance in a live room, so the effect will be a cheap one, jeans, trainers etc. What the hell is a Farthingale?????


The farthingale was a 15th and 16th century supported skirt. The Great Farthingale was a favourite of Queen Elizebeth I. Though rather ungainly, they were notable for their large supporting frame which substantially increased the surface area. This seemed like a suitable candidate for sound dampening purposes, and I’m surprised it is not a regular addition to every recording engineer’s toolkit.


----------



## VinRice

We demand our Farthingales Spitfire!!!!!


----------



## Zero&One

David Gosnell said:


> If I sit down to write a cue today - I probably spend 10% of my time composing, 30% programming, 60% on mixing and 10% on mastering.



There's always that guy that puts in 110% effort isn't there... Show off


----------



## dzilizzi

jaketanner said:


> You say clearly, but to me it was very clear, being a recording engineer, that you should have had open mics this whole time, yet SF JUST implemented this based off what Powell said...after how many years? So I think that it's not something that they've ever considered and probably should experiment with. As for financial sense, how would it cost to have ANY bodies in those seats? just sitting there...really it's not a financial issue but one they simply didn't think of I'd imagine. Imagine a brass section in the back of the room playing their instruments...wouldn't you think the sound would vary from the conductor's perspective if there were bodies in-between the brass and the conductor?


You are forgetting all the noise these people will make. the extra cost to get takes without accidental coughs, chair movements, talking, etc... Customers complain about the noise now, it will be worse with more people. 

Now maybe sacks of beans or something in the chairs would work without noise. but you'd have to move them around...


----------



## Living Fossil

mistermister said:


> You can set the 0'5s to stop whenever you want by switching 'No Short artic RTs' to 'Timed Short artic RTs'.



Could you please elaborate where to find this? Couldn't find the info in the manual & via Google search. Thanks in advance.


----------



## David Gosnell

James H said:


> There's always that guy that puts in 110% effort isn't there... Show off



I don't know if you remember the TV series 'Monk' - about a detective with OCD who always remembered every detail he observed. When people commented on it, he always responded "It's a blessing ... and a curse"' 😂

I also wish they hadn't changed the theme music after the first series! 😪 And that I had proof checked my previous post!🤦‍♂️


----------



## redlester

Living Fossil said:


> Could you please elaborate where to find this? Couldn't find the info in the manual & via Google search. Thanks in advance.



Click on the spanner symbol to show the options view. In the column headed "Round Robins" there is a dropdown at the bottom, set by default to "No short artic RT's". Click on the downward arrow to the right of it and the options list opens up.

Actually I just found it in the SSS manual. It's on page 17, right hand column, third paragraph.

Haven't checked properly but I assume SSS is not the only library which features this, I notice BHCT does.


----------



## redlester

Not sure anyone has commented yet (amongst all the excitement) on the latest Labs release “London Atmos”. I assume this is the same samples as the identically named instrument in their old Labs system, but it’s one I didn’t have. Had a short play with it last night and there are some really lovely pad sounds in there. Hats off to them once again.


----------



## JohnG

Andy's demo sounded quite cohesive to me. Plus I love his composing.


----------



## Zedcars

I take back what I said about CH winging it. It’s a project they clearly believe in and have worked hard on. The nervousness during the presentation was completely understandable:


----------



## jaketanner

dzilizzi said:


> You are forgetting all the noise these people will make. the extra cost to get takes without accidental coughs, chair movements, talking, etc


you mean like in a real recording? LOL There are always chairs moving about and I would have to assume that people can keep quiet during a take...not like they're sitting there in silence for a long time. I think anything but an actual body won't be true to the source...but it's an experiment I think SF should conduct at some point.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

People moving around during an entire recorded performance aren't quite the same as hearing the same cough or chair squeak every time you hit a certain round robin, though.


----------



## jaketanner

JohnG said:


> Andy's demo sounded quite cohesive to me. Plus I love his composing.


I don't know...didn't feel like it went anywhere at all...like it wouldn't have been written in the context of an actual score...and I get that it was to show as much of this library as possible, but for me, it was overkill. Brass was glaringly loud and just as a whole, I didn't truly enjoy it. I'd love to see what Andy can do if it were for his own personal use, not just a be-all demo. I also think that walkthroughs should have been ready to go day one...and on their site it says "available now", which clearly it isn't...not sure why the month long hype, then tell us it's still 2 months away.


----------



## jaketanner

Sarah Mancuso said:


> People moving around during an entire recorded performance aren't quite the same as hearing the same cough or chair squeak every time you hit a certain round robin, though.


yes, that's true.


----------



## Zedcars

But noises on samples have a habit of multiplying up when layering, so it is no longer a desirable quality even if they are natural noises that would occur in a live recording. Plus any noises may get repeated over the course of a piece and other pieces which use the library.


----------



## jaketanner

Zedcars said:


> But noises on samples have a habit of multiplying up when layering, so it is no longer a desirable quality even if they are natural noises that would occur in a live recording. Plus any noises may get repeated over the course of a piece and other pieces which use the library.


yes, point taken. But I also wasn't suggesting that they keep the noises, or even attempt at recording them...I am sure that a bunch of adults can sit in a chair quietly. besides, a solid chair doesn't really make any noise at all...we are not talking about some cheap Walmart chairs here. I use to work for the hit Factory studios, NY back in the day, and those chairs were built well, and not noisy.


----------



## Alex Fraser




----------



## Zedcars

Anyone here with a day job who’s thinking of taking time off to play with this new toy? I know I am...that’s not too sad is it? 🤓


----------



## NoamL

looking forward to @christianhenson & Jake's further template adventures, I'm sure they will be super educational!


----------



## Alex Fraser

NoamL said:


> looking forward to @christianhenson & Jake's further template adventures, I'm sure they will be super educational!


Indeed. With Logic’s new dynamic plugin loading and the forthcoming pre made mixes in BBCSO, the template should work on even the lowliest rigs. 

And if they add articulation maps, I’ll personally drive down to Spitfire HQ and leave a tin of Quality Steets at reception.


----------



## sIR dORT

This thread is too long.


----------



## JohnG

Alex Fraser said:


> leave a tin of Quality Steets at reception



Que? Quoi? Huh?


----------



## Alex Fraser

JohnG said:


> Que? Quoi? Huh?


The most British of British chocolate treats. Eaten everywhere from October onwards. Superior to Roses and Celebrations. The Emperor of multi selection confectionary.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Alex Fraser said:


> Superior to Roses and Celebrations. The Emperor of multi selection confectionary.



That's the most contentious statement I've read in the entire thread. I always draw quote marks round the word "Quality" in Quality Street.

Basic rule - Cadburys > Any Other Christmas Tin.

I feel I should now probably add something about this BBC thing, but I think it's all been said 'til the proper walkthroughs come out.


----------



## redlester

Galaxy > Cadbury’s. 

Caramac used to be king, but it tastes different now, they’ve ruined it.


----------



## Zedcars

Guy Rowland said:


> That's the most contentious statement I've read in the entire thread. I always draw quote marks round the word "Quality" in Quality Street.
> 
> Basic rule - Cadburys > Any Other Christmas Tin.
> 
> I feel I should now probably add something about this BBC thing, but I think it's all been said 'til the proper walkthroughs come out.


Don’t really know why they include those flat and long toffee ones. All they do is get stuck in your teeth and you end up having to fish around with a finger to dislodge the damned things. They are always get left in the tin. There - I said it. Anyone want to take me on - go for it!


----------



## mikeh-375

Alex Fraser said:


> The most British of British chocolate treats. Eaten everywhere from October onwards. Superior to Roses and Celebrations. The Emperor of multi selection confectionary.



Naah... don't listen to Alex, John...Liley O'Briens are better... 

https://lilyobriens.co.uk/all-chocolates/chocolate-collections/desserts-collection?gclid=CjwKCAjwtajrBRBVEiwA8w2Q8AmeHVvYcVScH_2ZA2auwoyUMb6EedYBOWMVReZoeffC2mHuCgoPShoC3IQQAvD_BwE


----------



## Living Fossil

redlester said:


> Click on the spanner symbol to show the options view. In the column headed "Round Robins" there is a dropdown at the bottom, set by default to "No short artic RT's". Click on the downward arrow to the right of it and the options list opens up.



Thanks a lot for that hint, i finally figured it out. 
It's a bit a pity though that this option is only available in the Time Machine presets.


----------



## Zedcars

Garry said:


> Is there a prize for best comment of the year!!!! THIS is my nomination!!


Thank you. As a prize, can I suggest a copy of a new library by the little known company called ‘Spitfire Audio’. Something to do with the British Broadcasting Corporation and an orchestra of some kind. Sounds promising.


----------



## VinRice

Guy Rowland said:


> Basic rule - Cadburys > Any Other Christmas Tin.



I have to concur. I've spent many, many Christmas's in lab condition experimentation and these too are my findings. I'm willing to resort to violence to defend this assertion.


----------



## Chungus

No sarcasm, I love the massive tangents this thread goes on.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I bet John wished he’d never asked about the chocolate. You’re all wrong though. Open a tin of Quality Street and take a good sniff. Smells like Christmas. Enough said. (Drops mic.)

Chocolate aside, what do we think SF will do about SSO? Surely the new library is going to steal sales, even if the articulation menu and sampling doesn’t turn out to be quite as deep..


----------



## I like music

Alex Fraser said:


> Indeed. With Logic’s new dynamic plugin loading and the forthcoming pre made mixes in BBCSO, the template should work on even the lowliest rigs.
> 
> And if they add articulation maps, I’ll personally drive down to Spitfire HQ and leave a tin of Quality Steets at reception.



Would you mind elaborating on the dynamic plugin loading, what it is/means? Curious as in the future I was considering a Mac & Logic setup perhaps ...


----------



## ed buller

everything else is just brown sweet stuff !

e


----------



## Mornats

I can't forgive either for dropping the coffee creams.


----------



## BassClef

And if they add articulation maps, I’ll personally drive down to Spitfire HQ and leave a tin of Quality Steets at reception.
[/QUOTE]

I hadn't thought of that. Logic templates preloaded with articulation sets for each instrument! That would be great.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I like music said:


> Would you mind elaborating on the dynamic plugin loading, what it is/means? Curious as in the future I was considering a Mac & Logic setup perhaps ...


Sure. With the feature on, when loading a project (e.g a template) Logic will only load a plugin and it's sample data if there are active midi regions on the track. As soon as you select a track to add midi data, it's plugin are loaded. You can also enable/disable tracks manually. I believe Cubase has something similar.

So in the case of a Spitfire BBC template, you could load it up in seconds with all tracks in place. The SF player instances would be deactivated upon load, loading into memory only when selected. The idea is quicker loading and better memory usage. In practice it works a treat.


----------



## Alex Fraser

BassClef said:


> I hadn't thought of that. Logic templates preloaded with articulation sets for each instrument! That would be great.


Yep, hopefully if SF weren't on it already, their conversations with Apple would (ahem) bear fruit on this. Or maybe @babylonwaves is on the case.


----------



## ManicMiner

redlester said:


> Galaxy > Cadbury’s.
> Caramac used to be king, but it tastes different now, they’ve ruined it.


I used to love Caramac. And Galaxy. Then I moved to the U.S. and there's nothing special here in terms of chocolate. But Walmart does have Lindt. I think Boris is trying to negotiate a U.K.->U.S. new chocolate trade deal.


----------



## VinRice

Alex Fraser said:


> I bet John wished he’d never asked about the chocolate. You’re all wrong though. Open a tin of Quality Street and take a good sniff. Smells like Christmas. Enough said. (Drops mic.)
> 
> Chocolate aside, what do we think SF will do about SSO? Surely the new library is going to steal sales, even if the articulation menu and sampling doesn’t turn out to be quite as deep..



Cannibalising your own products is the best possible situation to be in. Stops anybody else doing it. Apple 101. I'm sure the mic update will come in due course, but because it will likely drop with a healthy discount (a la Chamber Strings) it probably isn't a business priority at the moment. Doesn't mean it won't happen though.

Cadburys to the death.


----------



## Alex Fraser

VinRice said:


> Cadburys to the death.


_Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - Drama Zone chocolate spinoff._


----------



## Geoff Grace

jaketanner said:


> I use to work for the hit Factory studios, NY back in the day, and those chairs were built well, and not noisy.


I was lucky enough to work on a project there a quarter-century ago. Beautiful facility. Six stories of rooms, IIRC.

We recorded a string section. You're right, I don't recall hearing the chairs at all from the control room.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## dzilizzi

Alex Fraser said:


> I bet John wished he’d never asked about the chocolate. You’re all wrong though. Open a tin of Quality Street and take a good sniff. Smells like Christmas. Enough said. (Drops mic.)
> 
> Chocolate aside, what do we think SF will do about SSO? Surely the new library is going to steal sales, even if the articulation menu and sampling doesn’t turn out to be quite as deep..


I saved and bought SSO last Xmas wishlist sale. So this might be really disappointing to me if it is better. I am happy with SSO generally. But it isn't a full orchestra. 

Which of the chocolates are milk? I only know Cadbury and it is okay. I still like plain Nestles best, but it is really hard to find. We have See's Candies for boxed chocolates. Those are so good.


----------



## Noeticus

I love Malteasers and Crunchy Bars by Cadbury. Both of which are not VST Libraries.


----------



## dzilizzi

Noeticus said:


> I love Malteasers and Crunchy Bars by Cadbury. Both of which are not VST Libraries.


Wouldn’t it be cool if they were?


----------



## Geoff Grace

_"Hey, you got music on my chocolate!"

"Well, you got chocolate on my music!"_

Reeses Music Butter Cups



Best,

Geoff


----------



## Alex Fraser

dzilizzi said:


> I saved and bought SSO last Xmas wishlist sale. So this might be really disappointing to me if it is better. I am happy with SSO generally. But it isn't a full orchestra.
> 
> Which of the chocolates are milk?


Well you’ll always have the “air” sound on tap. Still sounds great with so much depth. Have both!

Some milk, some dark. Quality Street 4 Lyfe/Down with Cadburys. Maybe we should update our sigs with our chocolate preferences so we all know where we stand..😅


----------



## Ashermusic

Milk chocolate is not really chocolate but another product. It will do in a pinch but in general it’s similar to the difference between a real composer like me and a bunch of posers like you lot. 🤪


----------



## Fleer

Everyone comes when you yell Leo.


----------



## Geoff Grace

LOL! I pity the person who discovers this thread a few years in the future and searches it for meaningful conversation about Spitfire's BBC Symphony Orchestra! 

Of course, I'm a guilty party.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa




----------



## Denkii

ManicMiner said:


> I used to love Caramac. And Galaxy. Then I moved to the U.S. and there's nothing special here in terms of chocolate. But Walmart does have Lindt. I think Boris is trying to negotiate a U.K.->U.S. new chocolate trade deal.


Caramac


----------



## Van

I’m nobody...but I do have $0.02. All I can say is, way to swing for the fences SPITFIRE! You not only sampled a world class orchestra, but they _signed off_ on it. Monumental in my book. I wanna buy it just for the sheer monumentocity of the endeavor and brass it took to put what must have been an insane measure of capital on the line to do it. 
I think we forget that we’re a niche market and for people with kids and a payroll to have achieved real success, and then put it on the line, to some degree anyway time and again, is admirable. And here we are with libraries ‘blessed’ by HZ, Whitacre, and the frickin BBC. Boggles my mind anyway. (Yes, CH did give me a Mac Pro but I was a fanboy long before that...)


----------



## justthere

That's as may be, but there's no iLok involved.



danbo said:


> From the FAQ
> 
> *"CAN I USE THIS LIBRARY ON MORE THAN ONE COMPUTER?*
> Yes, this is a single user license, but our EULA allows for installation on up to two computers at a time."


----------



## noah90210

Fairly new forum member here (long time lurker/second post)... but it feels worth mentioning that, as a person who works with a large group of writers on production music, the *all in one*, balanced out of the box aspect is very intriguing. Most of the people I work with and for are way more experienced than me. 

When I need help on a cue I have to stem it all out in sections and send it to them. Then they have to open their own libraries and add to or replace stuff as necessary. When that's all done we can discuss mix. It's a slow process. This seems like it could save precious hours with only a small investment.


----------



## KEM

Alex Fraser said:


> I bet John wished he’d never asked about the chocolate. You’re all wrong though. Open a tin of Quality Street and take a good sniff. Smells like Christmas. Enough said. (Drops mic.)
> 
> Chocolate aside, what do we think SF will do about SSO? Surely the new library is going to steal sales, even if the articulation menu and sampling doesn’t turn out to be quite as deep..



Apparently we’ll get the long awaited “Pro” version of SSO, sometime next year...


----------



## lgmcben

My apology if this has been asked before. I checked Spitfire FAQs page to make sure it's not there either.

( https://www.spitfireaudio.com/info/faq/bbc-symphony-orchestra/ )

After buying this package, can you download the sample for just one mic position? I'm thinking of somewhere around 30gb for 1 mic position to use on my laptop.

Thank you in advance.


----------



## redlester

VinRice said:


> I have to concur. I've spent many, many Christmas's in lab condition experimentation and these too are my findings. I'm willing to resort to violence to defend this assertion.



Absolutely fine, no problem. Can you send me your unwanted Quality Street please?

Just a shame both QS and Roses both now come in plastic containers rather than tins.


----------



## Alex Fraser

lgmcben said:


> My apology if this has been asked before. I checked Spitfire FAQs page to make sure it's not there either.
> 
> ( https://www.spitfireaudio.com/info/faq/bbc-symphony-orchestra/ )
> 
> After buying this package, can you download the sample for just one mic position? I'm thinking of somewhere around 30gb for 1 mic position to use on my laptop.
> 
> Thank you in advance.


Not sure about the mics, but I think it can be downloaded in 4 sections (strings, brass etc)

I have to say, I'm massively excited about this library. It's what I always wished Spitfire would make. I'm all in on the concept as it's the way I prefer to work. I think SF are going to sell a fair few copies. With this release and following on Black Friday for everyone else...fun times at VI control ahead!

My favourite QS are the orange crunch ones. The kids eat the toffees, so everybody wins.


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> Not sure about the mics, but I think it can be downloaded in 4 sections (strings, brass etc)
> 
> I have to say, I'm massively excited about this library. It's what I always wished Spitfire would make. I'm all in on the concept as it's the way I prefer to work. I think SF are going to sell a fair few copies. With this release and following on Black Friday for everyone else...fun times at VI control ahead!
> 
> My favourite QS are the orange crunch ones. The kids eat the toffees, so everybody wins.



The coconut ones are always the ones left at the end in my house.

BBC SO won’t be part of the Black Friday sales or Christmas sale, so if you want it before next spring I would get it during the intro.


----------



## KEM

I just hope we get a good set of articulations for each instrument, I can already tell the sound itself is great


----------



## JeffvR

colony nofi said:


> If we're doing the math...
> I think we need to wait a little longer to truly work this out.
> 
> But a few things. The symphonic strings = 6 mics - 3xstereo pairs.
> There doesn't seem to be 20 mics for this new library either.
> From the website:
> 
> Mono
> Close
> Tree
> Out
> Ambient
> Balcony
> Leader
> Stereo
> Mids
> Sides
> Close Wide Pan
> 5 Spill Mics
> Thats 26...
> 
> *MIXES*
> 
> Mix 1 (Full)
> Mix 2 (Jake Jackson)
> Atmos (2 — front & rear)
> Thats 8.
> Maybe I'm missing something - but that is 34mics compared to 6 - which is quite different from 20 compared to 3. (more like 17 compared to 3 if we are talking stereo paths...so 15% less)
> 
> Unless I missed something in the keynote / website / the pages of discussion here.
> 
> The length of many of the articulations will be much less than air by nature of the studios. I wouldn't be surprised if in a lot of cases, that is a 33-50% saving.
> 
> We are speculating at this point, and I really don't feel like any of these kinds of discussions bring much to the table right now. Everyone's looking for a "gotcha" or a "this can't be any good for xxx reason". I get it. But at the same time its not terribly useful chat in an already crowded thread.
> 
> And @Daniel James : I feel you for your workflow. Are you in cubase?
> I've started saving track archives (er, XML) for this purpose. Sure - its not as super clean as a multi in kontakt - but it ends up being almost as quick!


I've based the 20 on what they've said in the presentation and on facebook: "20 mic signals". I presume it's 20x stereo. I also think the 33-50% less space because of hall reverb is waaaaaayyyy overrated. Most of the data will be in the long articulations anyway.

Doesn't mean I'm not excited by this product. The sound is absolutely great and I like the idea of spill mics. If the programming is great, the articulations are consistent and the amount of dynamic layers, rr's are enough it's a killer product. But before getting too excited we have to wait and see first what Spitfire delivers. There seems to be a focus on rushing and bringing out new content instead of make perfect products or make older products better with updates. I guess that's why I like the Cinematic Studio Series so much. No rush in putting out new content, just a focus on making a great product from version 1.0.


----------



## Loïc D

Aaah Quality Street, cheap sugar rush with british style. 
It was very popular here in France too, on par with Lindt chocolate box. You could see a QS tin can in every house. Less popular now I’m afraid...

I think Spitfire should create a QS tin box / candy unwrapping LABS instrument.


----------



## Vik

Alex Fraser said:


> Sure. With the feature on, when loading a project (e.g a template) Logic will only load a plugin and it's sample data if there are active midi regions on the track. As soon as you select a track to add midi data, it's plugin are loaded. You can also enable/disable tracks manually. I believe Cubase has something similar.
> 
> So in the case of a Spitfire BBC template, you could load it up in seconds with all tracks in place. The SF player instances would be deactivated upon load, loading into memory only when selected. The idea is quicker loading and better memory usage. In practice it works a treat.


Also new: whenever you freeze a track, your sampler and it's samples is also unloaded from memory, meaning that you actually can have all the tracks except the one you work on frozen. This would free up a lot of sample memory (and sample player memory).


----------



## dzilizzi

Just checked. Quality Street is a Nestles product meaning I will probably like it also. And I can buy it on Amazon. A little pricey but I may have to remember to try it. Not now though. 104 degree F during the day means melted chocolate arriving at the house. I learned my lesson a few years ago.


----------



## redlester

Living Fossil said:


> Thanks a lot for that hint, i finally figured it out.
> It's a bit a pity though that this option is only available in the Time Machine presets.



Are you sure? We are talking about Spitfire Symphonic Strings, yes? On mine it's available on multiple different presets, including the main ones and the Core Techniques.


----------



## Alex Fraser

dzilizzi said:


> Just checked. Quality Street is a Nestles product meaning I will probably like it also. And I can buy it on Amazon. A little pricey but I may have to remember to try it. Not now though. 104 degree F during the day means melted chocolate arriving at the house. I learned my lesson a few years ago.



Maybe in tribute to this thread - 1610 posts and counting - Spitfire should offer a tin of Quality Street/Other inferior chocolate tin as part of their Black Friday tombola raffle.


----------



## Living Fossil

redlester said:


> Are you sure? We are talking about Spitfire Symphonic Strings, yes? On mine it's available on multiple different presets, including the main ones and the Core Techniques.



Hi Redlester, thanks for responding!
I have this window:





My guess is that it could be a Native Access related problem; while i have updated to the newest version of SSS, Native Access still shows version 1.0. maybe it's the best thing to reinstall the whole library.


----------



## D Halgren

Living Fossil said:


> Hi Redlester, thanks for responding!
> I have this window:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My guess is that it could be a Native Access related problem; while i have updated to the newest version of SSS, Native Access still shows version 1.0. maybe it's the best thing to reinstall the whole library.


It's under the No extra functionality drop-down.


----------



## redlester

Living Fossil said:


> Hi Redlester, thanks for responding!
> I have this window:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My guess is that it could be a Native Access related problem; while i have updated to the newest version of SSS, Native Access still shows version 1.0. maybe it's the best thing to reinstall the whole library.



You have Spiccato selected there, what happens if you select Short 0.5, the one to the right of it?


----------



## dzilizzi

Alex Fraser said:


> Maybe in tribute to this thread - 1610 posts and counting - Spitfire should offer a tin of Quality Street/Other inferior chocolate tin as part of their Black Friday tombola raffle.


And maybe this year I will actually win it. 

LOL! And pigs might fly. No, really, it may depend on the country of whomever wins. Food items can be a pain to ship to non local places.


----------



## VinRice

My position may be softening on certain items in the Quality Street offering. Further research required. Developing...


----------



## Living Fossil

D Halgren said:


> It's under the No extra functionality drop-down.



No, it's not. That's the problem.


----------



## Living Fossil

redlester said:


> You have Spiccato selected there, what happens if you select Short 0.5, the one to the right of it?



That doesn't change a thing.

I guess i will reload the complete library. Somethings corrupted.


----------



## muk

Until the list of articulations is published, here is what can be seen on screen during their presentation:

Horn a4: legato, long cuivre, long flutter, long sfz, long con sord., staccato, marcato, trill maj 2nd,

- a second page with maximum 8 more articulations indicated

Violins 1: legato, long harmonics, short harmonics, pizz., spiccato, staccato, tremolo sul pont., tremolo - a second page with maximum 8 more articulations indicated

Tenor Trombone: legato, long cuivre, long flutter, long szf, long con sord., marcato, staccatissimo

One articulation slot remained blank and no second page with additional articulations indicated

Flute: legato extended, legato, long flutter, long con sord. (sic)*, marcato, staccatissimo, tenuto, trill maj 2nd - a second page with maximum 8 more articulations indicated

Clarinet: legato, long flutter, long con sord, marcato, staccatissimo, tenuto, trill min 2nd, trill maj 2nd - no second page of articulations indicated

Timpani: rolls soft,rolls, short damped soft, short damped, hits soft, hits damped, hits

*This indicates that even when the GUI showed “Woodwinds Flute - All in One” at the top and articulations selection at the bottom, it’s not actually flute articulations we are seeing here, as a flute is never played with a sordino.

In the patch walkthrough, for the cello section a few more articulations show up: flautando, long sul ponticello, long sul tasto. Here, three pages of articulations are indicated, meaning that there are at least 17 articulations for the celli.


In addition, Spitfire published a page describing the differences between BBC SO and their Symphonic Orchestra:









BBC Symphony Orchestra vs Symphonic Orchestra: What are the differences?


Whilst both of these products are Symphony sized sections, there are still some significant differences to note when comparing the libraries. This article bullet points a list of key differences be...




spitfireaudio.zendesk.com





The main point seems to be the sound. For the Symphonic Orchestra: 'This hall [Air Lyndhurst] is known for it's large and reverberant sound, very modern and "hollywood-esque".' 

And for BBC SO: 'The sound is very open and characteristic, but well treated and not as reverberant as AIR Lyndhurst. Think more 'classic' Orchestra rather than instant film score!'

Boiling down to Spitfire seeing their Symphonic Orchestra line to sound modern, 'hollywood-esque', and instant filmscore. While the BBC SO will be 'more 'classic' Orchestra'.


----------



## D Halgren

Living Fossil said:


> No, it's not. That's the problem.


Can you take another screenshot with the drop-down open?


----------



## Sovereign

muk said:


> Boiling down to Spitfire seeing their Symphonic Orchestra line to sound modern, 'hollywood-esque', and instant filmscore. While the BBC SO will be 'more 'classic' Orchestra'.


Don't like the Air hall at all, which seems far more reverberant than many other scoring stages.


----------



## D Halgren

Living Fossil said:


> That doesn't change a thing.
> 
> I guess i will reload the complete library. Somethings corrupted.


Sorry, I'm at my computer now. You have to uncheck the round robin button, and then the option shows at the bottom of the options.


----------



## jbuhler

muk said:


> Until the list of articulations is published, here is what can be seen on screen during their presentation:
> 
> Horn a4: legato, long cuivre, long flutter, long sfz, long con sord., staccato, marcato, trill maj 2nd,
> 
> - a second page with maximum 8 more articulations indicated
> 
> Violins 1: legato, long harmonics, short harmonics, pizz., spiccato, staccato, tremolo sul pont., tremolo - a second page with maximum 8 more articulations indicated
> 
> Tenor Trombone: legato, long cuivre, long flutter, long szf, long con sord., marcato, staccatissimo
> 
> One articulation slot remained blank and no second page with additional articulations indicated
> 
> Flute: legato extended, legato, long flutter, long con sord. (sic)*, marcato, staccatissimo, tenuto, trill maj 2nd - a second page with maximum 8 more articulations indicated
> 
> Clarinet: legato, long flutter, long con sord, marcato, staccatissimo, tenuto, trill min 2nd, trill maj 2nd - no second page of articulations indicated
> 
> Timpani: rolls soft,rolls, short damped soft, short damped, hits soft, hits damped, hits
> 
> *This indicates that even when the GUI showed “Woodwinds Flute - All in One” at the top and articulations selection at the bottom, it’s not actually flute articulations we are seeing here, as a flute is never played with a sordino.
> 
> In the patch walkthrough, for the cello section a few more articulations show up: flautando, long sul ponticello, long sul tasto. Here, three pages of articulations are indicated, meaning that there are at least 17 articulations for the celli.
> 
> 
> In addition, Spitfire published a page describing the differences between BBC SO and their Symphonic Orchestra:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC Symphony Orchestra vs Symphonic Orchestra: What are the differences?
> 
> 
> Whilst both of these products are Symphony sized sections, there are still some significant differences to note when comparing the libraries. This article bullet points a list of key differences be...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spitfireaudio.zendesk.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The main point seems to be the sound. For the Symphonic Orchestra: 'This hall [Air Lyndhurst] is known for it's large and reverberant sound, very modern and "hollywood-esque".'
> 
> And for BBC SO: 'The sound is very open and characteristic, but well treated and not as reverberant as AIR Lyndhurst. Think more 'classic' Orchestra rather than instant film score!'
> 
> Boiling down to Spitfire seeing their Symphonic Orchestra line to sound modern, 'hollywood-esque', and instant filmscore. While the BBC SO will be 'more 'classic' Orchestra'.


I find it a bit odd that, as with SSB, SF apparently chose not to record muted shorts for the brass—at least they don’t seem to be included in the visible articulations.


----------



## redlester

Living Fossil said:


> That doesn't change a thing.
> 
> I guess i will reload the complete library. Somethings corrupted.



We shouldn't dwell too much on this as this thread has stayed strictly on topic so far rolleyes but I would ask Spitfire for advice before reinstalling the whole thing.

The function is not there for Spiccato, it only appears (underneath "Reset on Transport") when I select the Short 0.5.

It's not under the No Extra Functionality drop down.


----------



## D Halgren

Living Fossil said:


> No, it's not. That's the problem.


So oddly, it wasn't there for me until I unchecked the round robin button, but now that I did it shows up every time, and I can have the round robin button checked. Also mine shows as 1.0 in native access, so I think that's normal.


----------



## redlester

D Halgren said:


> Sorry, I'm at my computer now. You have to uncheck the round robin button, and then the option shows at the bottom of the options.



It works on mine with the Round Robin button still selected.


----------



## D Halgren

redlester said:


> It works on mine with the Round Robin button still selected.


See my last post. You are correct on all your assertions. I was going from memory at first.


----------



## redlester

D Halgren said:


> See my last post. You are correct on all your assertions. I was going from memory at first.



Am glad this topic was raised, because I never realised it existed until yesterday!

Chocolates all round!


----------



## muk

jbuhler said:


> I find it a bit odd that, as with SSB, SF apparently chose not to record muted shorts for the brass—at least they don’t seem to be included in the visible articulations.



The fact that they were not visible does not necessarily mean that they will not be there. Apparently the player allows to load only the articulations that you want. So maybe Andy Blaney simply didn't use muted brass shorts in his demo, thus they were not loaded. Or they were loaded on page two of the articulation list, which was not visible during the demo. Or they were indeed not sampled. All possible. But I agree that it would be a regrettable omission if they have been left out.


----------



## redlester

I would add, in my opinion this thread has been one of the most enjoyable on VI-Control in a very long time. 

Perhaps (when one thinks of the HZS drama) it helps that the product is not actually available yet?


----------



## Zedcars

VinRice said:


> My position may be softening on certain items in the Quality Street offering. Further research required. Developing...


I tell you what’s not softening - those horrible hard as f*** toffees - harder than Vinnie Jones in a cement factory!


----------



## D Halgren

redlester said:


> Am glad this topic was raised, because I never realised it existed until yesterday!
> 
> Chocolates all round!


@thesteelydane had shown me this a while back. Very helpful!


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> I tell you what’s not softening - those horrible hard as f*** toffees - harder than Vinnie Jones in a cement factory!



Always left, alongside the coconut ones.


----------



## Living Fossil

D Halgren said:


> Sorry, I'm at my computer now. You have to uncheck the round robin button, and then the option shows at the bottom of the options.



Thank you very much @D Halgren and also @redlester . 
Unchecking and rechecking the round robin button finally solved the problem...
Also the info about Native Access showing vs 1.0 is really helpful!


----------



## D Halgren

Living Fossil said:


> Thank you very much @D Halgren and also @redlester .
> Unchecking and rechecking the round robin button finally solved the problem...
> Also the info about Native Access showing vs 1.0 is really helpful!


Glad to hear. It's weird that we had to do that, but at least it works. Cheers!


----------



## jbuhler

muk said:


> The fact that they were not visible does not necessarily mean that they will not be there. Apparently the player allows to load only the articulations that you want. So maybe Andy Blaney simply didn't use muted brass shorts in his demo, thus they were not loaded. Or they were loaded on page two of the articulation list, which was not visible during the demo. Or they were indeed not sampled. All possible. But I agree that it would be a regrettable omission if they have been left out.


I was thinking of the trombone specifically, which does not have a second page of articulations. But I did forget that the new version of the plugin will have the capability of setting up articulations any way you like.


----------



## Sovereign

jbuhler said:


> I was thinking of the trombone specifically, which does not have a second page of articulations. But I did forget that the new version of the plugin will have the capability of setting up articulations any way you like.


They should really post the articulation list asap rather than keep everyone in suspense.


----------



## BassClef

With all this talk of recording the ambient sounds or lack there of... I was just listening to John Williams' 2012 score of film "Lincoln." There is a beautiful brass choir in the middle of the cue "The American Process" where you clearly hear the brass players sucking in air between the long phrases!


----------



## VinRice

Zedcars said:


> I tell you what’s not softening - those horrible hard as f*** toffees - harder than Vinnie Jones in a cement factory!



We used to put those on Grandmas's eyes after she fell asleep during the Queen's speech. 

Oh how we laughed!


----------



## PaulieDC

Zedcars said:


> Paul said if you order the SSD you get it delivered before October 24th, so that when the activation code arrives you can start using it almost immediately.


Oh, right, I remember that now. Please pass the ketchup.


----------



## VinRice

Wait, what?!! Spitfire announced a new sample library???


----------



## dcoscina

JohnG said:


> Andy's demo sounded quite cohesive to me. Plus I love his composing.


The guy is otherworldly insofar as his technique and application of contrapuntal harmonies


----------



## JohnG

dcoscina said:


> The guy is otherworldly insofar as his technique and application of contrapuntal harmonies



"Otherworldly" is an interesting epithet, since I find he somehow draws a sense of the past, even history, in his pieces. I'm not surprised, David, that you would like that, given your predilections, including (if I remember correctly) a love of Prokofiev.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Pop quiz. Which brass library has the best legato: Forzo, Caspian Brass, Angry Brass Pro, Trailer Brass, Adventure Brass, or Metropolis Ark 1?


tied for 1st and last place at the same time


----------



## ProfoundSilence

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Don´t forget old HWB :dodgy:
> 
> Still imo some very exquisite 6 French Horn Patch (both normal and slurred)


I think it was sarcasm, they dont have legato. 

at least I dont think ark 1 is sampled legato


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

ProfoundSilence said:


> I think it was sarcasm, they dont have legato.
> 
> at least I dont think ark 1 is sampled legato



Yeah for most of the part not except the French Horns A9.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Yeah for most of the part not except the French Horns A9.


I couldn't remember if it was the a9 or a3, but yeah that's what I'm referencing


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> I would add, in my opinion this thread has been one of the most enjoyable on VI-Control in a very long time.
> 
> Perhaps (when one thinks of the HZS drama) it helps that the product is not actually available yet?


Absolutely. I was considering giving the forum a long break but this thread has been a spot of fresh air. Positive discourse all round. And as we say in the UK, great bantz (playful joking) too.

Like you say, I’m hoping the library meets expectations and that the conversation doesn’t turn sour after release day. I remain positive that this is going to be a library people like.

I will have a tin of Quality Street on my desk to keep me occupied during the epic download.😉


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

There are two new demo tracks on the Spitfire homepage.


----------



## Symfoniq

Manuel Stumpf said:


> There are two new demo tracks on the Spitfire homepage.



Wow. I could listen to Homay's demo all day...


----------



## AllanH

Symfoniq said:


> Wow. I could listen to Homay's demo all day...



Agreed - that is a beautiful piece. The orchestra sounds pristine (deep and clear) and the room sounds very good. I'd be interested in knowing if she uses any reverb or if this is the room "as is".


----------



## Sovereign

AllanH said:


> Agreed - that is a beautiful piece. The orchestra sounds pristine (deep and clear) and the room sounds very good. I'd be interested in knowing if she uses any reverb or if this is the room "as is".


Andy's demo certainly sounds different in terms of reverberation, I'm not too fond of the mixes of these two pieces to be honest.


----------



## Garry

Wow, if I write anything close to any one of those 4 demos, then it means BBCSO comes with a button labelled 'talent override - hit in emergency'! 

These are stunning!


----------



## CT

I think Andy's is the only one that doesn't have any external processing. It sounds like BBCSO responds better to reverb than the Studio series does (to my ears, at least). 

I get more excited about this with each new update!


----------



## ism

Symfoniq said:


> Wow. I could listen to Homay's demo all day...



Yes. It's not that Oliver and Paul and Andy's demo don't also suggest that they're intent on bankrupting me, but when Christian and Homay write demos like this it really suggest that they're *particularly* intent on bankrupting me.


A beautiful composition, with, I don't quite know how to express it, but just a textual quality of ... not sure what the word is, is kind of a simultaneous sense of clarity and space ... or something ... that I've not heard with other libraries.


----------



## Noeticus

Wow, Homay Schmitz can be beyond pround of "Sadie's Waltz".

It sounds like a classic!


----------



## jamwerks

Great pieces by both Patrice and Homay!


----------



## dcoscina

JohnG said:


> "Otherworldly" is an interesting epithet, since I find he somehow draws a sense of the past, even history, in his pieces. I'm not surprised, David, that you would like that, given your predilections, including (if I remember correctly) a love of Prokofiev.


I still do love Prokofiev. I was just commenting on how Blaney seems to occupy a strata with respect to composition/orchestration that very few others can dream of attaining. His music is complex but not to the point where it is superficially showy or without context. In this age of endless uninspired ostinati and harmonically stripped down "epic" music (with everything doubled all to hell), it's refreshing to hear contrasting textures in the orchestration and expansive development of musical ideas. 

Not to diss anyone who has to produce this music- sadly this is what employers demand (ie directors, game developers, etc). I'm just observing what a departure Blaney's music is from the status quo.


----------



## dcoscina

Oh I'm also still hoping this BBC Orchestra release will be so well thought out and executed that I can seriously dump a lot of my libraries. I think that's another factor that plays in when we hear these lovely demos from Blaney (Spitfire), Sascha (Orchestral Tools), Guy Bacos (VSL) etc. They don't have a million different libraries- they work within the realm of a single one so the focus moves away from production quality and more on the music content, something I myself have found challenging these days. In fact, I'm content to work in Dorico and NotePerformer when developing any serious ideas then exporting them because I look at my drop-down menu of VIs and it's endless.... sometimes it's like "where do I being??". Sorry for the OT in this thread but to bring it back to the topic, or more of a recapitulation, I'm really looking forward to this one and have high hopes it will deliver what I'm looking for as a one-stop shop type of thing.


----------



## Zedcars

Homay Schmitz’s piece is exquisite in a subtle, haunting way. It’s very nice to hear something more dreamy and restrained, rather than everything going twenty-nine to the dozen.

I would love to know how much finessing it took to produce these pieces, and what effects were used. Without knowing how the mixes were produced we won’t know how easy or hard the library is to work with until we get it.


----------



## NoamL

It could be the demos aren't through an external reverb. Spitfire usually doesn't do that, and there's a load of ambient mics in the specs. Very interesting to see how sonically flexible this is.


----------



## CT

Zedcars said:


> Homay Schmitz’s piece is exquisite in a subtle, haunting way. It’s very nice to hear something more dreamy and restrained, rather than everything going twenty-nine to the dozen.
> 
> I would love to know how much finessing it took to produce these pieces, and what effects were used. Without knowing how the mixes were produced we won’t know how easy or hard the library is to work with until we get it.



I think the fact that Andy's was unprocessed, and seemed to have very little control tweaking going on beyond dynamics, if any, shows that this will be *very* easy to work with if you're after a natural orchestral sound. Performance will be the only thing you have to focus on.

For me at least, because that's how my brain thinks about the orchestra, that reliable and natural starting point also makes any further processing that much easier.


----------



## JohnG

Zedcars said:


> I would love to know how much finessing it took to produce these pieces, and what effects were used. Without knowing how the mixes were produced we won’t know how easy or hard the library is to work with until we get it.



As others have speculated, I would be surprised if there is anything on these demos beyond reverb, if that. Andy takes good advantage of mic positions, from what I think he's said around here some time in the past. Or maybe on his Soundcloud page(?).

You never know. To get a natural sound like that, though, it certainly hasn't been tortured too much.


----------



## Alex Fraser

If memory serves, Andy was using one of the pre made mixes in the demo, as mentioned in the keynote.


----------



## Zedcars

That’s exciting news to me because it means that my mixes will no longer sound like they were recorded in a toilet bowel after a particularly long but successful session on the throne.


----------



## David Gosnell

In my ongoing search for Andy's 'secret sauce' and to try and get my head around why the 'in house' demos often sound so different, I thought I'd take a look at the 'Energy' analysis. I suppose as you would guess with your ears, Christian and Andy's have similar curves - but Andy has a bit more air. I also normalised before running the tool - Andy's was not unsurprisingly louder 😉. I guess the similarities hint at the characteristics of the library and the differences at the chosen processing - the collective peak at around 460 is 'interesting'. The sharper decrease in high frequencies of the in house demos could hint at added reverb as well as lower dynamics? Either way, no-one has chosen to expose the strings much so far ... 😟 (in fairness to Andy, his strings aren't too prominent in his SSO demos either)


----------



## David Gosnell

While I'm on a 'nerdgasm' - this is interesting. This is a comparison of Andy's demo with the prologue from Planet Earth (series 1) - in blue & pink - which was I believe the BBCSO recorded at Maida Vale 🙂






To be fair to Christian actually - his curve is pretty darn close!


----------



## JohnG

does this tell you anything about processing, or just reveals the result of the notes / orchestration choices and mic positions?

Put another way -- and I don't mean to jump on you -- what do these curves tell us that's useful / actionable?


----------



## JohnG

I'm all for analysis, by the way. But not sure I understand what this reveals.


----------



## AllanH

David Gosnell said:


> In my ongoing search for Andy's 'secret sauce' and to try and get my head around why the 'in house' demos often sound so different, I thought I'd take a look at the 'Energy' analysis. ...



Really curious -

Q: What do the two curves for each track capture?


----------



## mikeh-375

Blaney's demo is well scored and musically balanced...er..that's mostly it I'd say.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

JohnG said:


> does this tell you anything about processing, or just reveals the result of the notes / orchestration choices and mic positions?
> 
> Put another way -- and I don't mean to jump on you -- what do these curves tell us that's useful / actionable?



My thinking exactly.


----------



## Zedcars

David Gosnell said:


> While I'm on a 'nerdgasm' - this is interesting. This is a comparison of Andy's demo with the prologue from Planet Earth (series 1) - in blue & pink - which was I believe the BBCSO recorded at Maida Vale 🙂
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair to Christian actually - his curve is pretty darn close!


That's amazing. I actually found something else hidden in the spectrogram. Looks like some kind of message...


----------



## David Gosnell

AllanH said:


> Really curious -
> 
> Q: What do the two curves for each track capture?


Left and right channels:

Andy - white left, green right
Christian - orange left, grey right
BBCSO - pink left, blue right

I wonder if the 460-ish peak is BBCSO horns + room? Either way, there are resonance similarities which seem to support SF's claim to have accurately captured the signature sound.



mikeh-375 said:


> Blaney's demo is well scored and musically balanced...er..that's mostly it I'd say.



I think maybe Andy's forward brass placement and the general raucous nature of the piece explains the odd 'bulge' here and there 😉. Not sure my ears would tolerate a whole album of it 😂


----------



## Alex Fraser

mikeh-375 said:


> Blaney's demo is well scored and musically balanced...er..that's mostly it I'd say.


That’s my take also. Andy’s music features traditional orchestration, hence naturally balanced.


----------



## David Gosnell

JohnG said:


> I'm all for analysis, by the way. But not sure I understand what this reveals.





AlexanderSchiborr said:


> My thinking exactly.



I could talk about chocolate if you'd prefer? 🤷‍♂️


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

David Gosnell said:


> I could talk about chocolate if you'd prefer? 🤷‍♂️


----------



## AndyP

I understand that differently placed microphones influence the sound, especially spatially.
But is it really possible to create a completely realistic surround sound without using further reverbs? What about stereo processing, normalizing?
Percussion is always my main problem, because for example timpani have quite long sustains.
Out of the box, I didn't even manage it with VSL Synchron. However, the final mix is generally not my strength.


----------



## borisb2

AlexanderSchiborr said:


>


Ohh menno, keiner mag mich... darf ich jetzt mal käptn sein oder was, oder wie?

Klassiker


----------



## David Gosnell

AlexanderSchiborr said:


>


Surely, "Tee, Earl Grey, Heiß"?


----------



## AndyP

borisb2 said:


> Ohh menno, keiner mag mich... darf ich jetzt mal käptn sein oder was, oder wie?
> 
> Klassiker


oder wat!


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

AndyP said:


> oder wat!


Oder wie oder watt oder weshalb oder warum überhaupt. Ich geh mir jetz ma en kaffee kochen. Und dann muss ich Euch nämlich echt mal meinen neuesten Fausttanz vorführen.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Show of hands then: Who’s brushing Spitfire’s palm with silver? Anyone placed a pre order?


----------



## Zedcars

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Oder wie oder watt oder weshalb oder warum überhaupt. Ich geh mir jetz ma en kaffee kochen. Und dann muss ich Euch nämlich echt mal meinen neuesten Fausttanz vorführen.


I really don’t think Google Translate got this right at all, or else you guys have the weirdest conversations...



> Or how or wat or why or why at all. I'm going to cook coffee now. And then I really have to show you my latest fist dance.


----------



## Noeticus

Still waiting for the Full Articulations list.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Show of hands then: Who’s brushing Spitfire’s palm with silver? Anyone placed a pre order?


*puts hand up excitedly


----------



## yellowtone

Definitely still waiting on the articulations list and the walk through. One question I have, as someone still new to midi orchestration, I've read multiple concerns about the computer requirements for this library but I don't understand why this library would require any more computer processing/RAM, etc. than getting SCS, SSB, SSW and Percussion. Would they have the same requirements or is it all the extra mics in this BBC version that would require more speed/RAM? I have an iMac with all the minimum requirements listed on the product, but not the "recommended" specs as my computer is too old to have the 6-core processor. Should I be worried? I'm hoping this might be my bread and butter library, pending articulations and walk through, but if I need a new computer as well that might change my decision...


----------



## David Gosnell

Still waiting for:


Articulations list (could I use it as the core of my template?)
Walk-throughs (what do the individual instruments sound like?)
More demos (have they been hiding stuff so far or just 'artistically' choosing to forefront brass and perc?)
The DJ 'first look' on Twitch (what's it like to work with when you go 'off script'? And are there any challenges with the Spitfire player?)
I still need to work out what I'd use it for? Andy's demo sounds great - but it also sounds like concert music. How flexible will it be to help me write stuff I might actually get paid for?

I dropped $1,000 on Hollywood Strings after I heard Thomas Bergersen's 'Love Suspended' - I'm older and wiser now, my wallet stays shut until November 😘


----------



## AndyP

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I really don’t think Google Translate got this right at all, or else you guys have the weirdest conversations...


New dubbed german Star Trek parody in dialect.
That means with a rather exotic accent in germany. This happens when you drink too much black coffee before going to sleep.


----------



## Daniel James

David Gosnell said:


> The DJ 'first look' on Twitch (what's it like to work with when you go 'off script'? And are there any challenges with the Spitfire player?)



I'm on it


----------



## sinkd

I think I am going to have to dive in for this purchase. I keep thinking how powerful an all-in-one like this would be if it were properly scripted to use in Finale, Sibelius or Dorico.


----------



## David Gosnell

Daniel James said:


> I'm on it


I was never in any doubt mate! 😂😂😂 Maybe this time you'll be expecting to be hit in the face by George Fenton's genitalia? (TBH I think that's what I'm hoping for, something that would sound like his work on Planet Earth I)


----------



## Daniel James

David Gosnell said:


> I was never in any doubt mate! 😂😂😂 Maybe this time you'll be expecting to be hit in the face by George Fenton's genitalia?



My expectations are well and truly tempered this time XD my face is ready.

-DJ


----------



## Zero&One

Alex Fraser said:


> Show of hands then: Who’s brushing Spitfire’s palm with silver? Anyone placed a pre order?



Yup, can't wait!
Have you bought it?


----------



## jamwerks

I would have loved for them to have done variable attacks for the longs and legato (like OT does), might be asking to much...


----------



## David Gosnell

jamwerks said:


> I would have loved for them to have done variable attacks for the longs and legato (like OT does), might be asking to much...


Listening to 'Your Majesty' - I fear you might be right. The attacks all sound pretty similar. I figure in that kind of writing you'd want to show them off if you had them?


----------



## Alex Fraser

James H said:


> Yup, can't wait!
> Have you bought it?


Nope. Will make a decision when October rolls around. I’ve wanted a general purpose orchestra from Spitfire for a while now. This looks very much to be it. I just need to find a work angle to justify spending the coins!

Ironically, outside my usual bread and butter, the last two shorts I scored were for BBC Arts. I’ve been given the nod that there are more headed my way, but the shorts rarely require the sound of a 100 piece orchestra. :-(


----------



## Michael Antrum

sinkd said:


> I think I am going to have to dive in for this purchase. I keep thinking how powerful an all-in-one like this would be if it were properly scripted to use in Finale, Sibelius or Dorico.



There’s a big Dorico announcement on Thursday........ and they were saying there would be working in a link with Iconica......


----------



## NoamL

David Gosnell said:


> Surely, "Tee, Earl Grey, Heiß"?



Mach es so!


----------



## Symfoniq

Alex Fraser said:


> Show of hands then: Who’s brushing Spitfire’s palm with silver? Anyone placed a pre order?



I used to only pre-order from a very short list of "trusted" vendors.

After the VSL Synchron Strings debacle, I no longer pre-order anything.


----------



## CT

I don't have the cash to pre-order, but it would take some really egregious flaws for me to not be a buyer sooner than later.


----------



## dzilizzi

yellowtone said:


> Definitely still waiting on the articulations list and the walk through. One question I have, as someone still new to midi orchestration, I've read multiple concerns about the computer requirements for this library but I don't understand why this library would require any more computer processing/RAM, etc. than getting SCS, SSB, SSW and Percussion. Would they have the same requirements or is it all the extra mics in this BBC version that would require more speed/RAM? I have an iMac with all the minimum requirements listed on the product, but not the "recommended" specs as my computer is too old to have the 6-core processor. Should I be worried? I'm hoping this might be my bread and butter library, pending articulations and walk through, but if I need a new computer as well that might change my decision...


I'm also new to orchestration, but not new to crashing my computer with VI's. I believe the issue with this is that it is not Kontakt and allows only one instrument per instance. If you use key switches, you may be fine. If not, you may be in trouble RAM-wise, as I'm not sure the SA player purges when not in use. You would need multiple instances of each instrument to cover the needed articulations.


----------



## 5Lives

Homay's and Christian's demos sound beautiful to me. The strings have a great tone. Haven't heard demos for other full packages that sound quite like this.


----------



## constaneum

5Lives said:


> Homay's and Christian's demos sound beautiful to me. The strings have a great tone. Haven't heard demos for other full packages that sound quite like this.



i on the other hand prefer Andy's demo for clarity. The latest 2 demos, somehow the strings arent' that great. Overall, the latest 2 demos somehow showcased the sound of the the strings' long patches which don't seem to interest me. Not sure this is due to the mic preference used by the demo composers. i believe it can sound better than that. hmm...


----------



## OleJoergensen

Alex Fraser said:


> I bet John wished he’d never asked about the chocolate. You’re all wrong though. Open a tin of Quality Street and take a good sniff. Smells like Christmas. Enough said. (Drops mic.)
> 
> Chocolate aside, what do we think SF will do about SSO? Surely the new library is going to steal sales, even if the articulation menu and sampling doesn’t turn out to be quite as deep..


Maybe we should have a thread something like “which coffee, tea and chocolate brand, speed up your workflow?”....


----------



## Nyran

Andy's demo is on another level of orchestration, composition and technical fluidity. I think all the other demos don't really show the same strengths. We have a long way until the release. I am too eager to listen to the walkthrough and first impressions. It seems impressive for a full orchestra package but we have to see, at least in terms of playability and articulations.


----------



## Alex Fraser

We need spitfire to publish that articulation list. That’ll fuel another 30 pages. 😎


----------



## Zero&One

dzilizzi said:


> I'm also new to orchestration, but not new to crashing my computer with VI's. I believe the issue with this is that it is not Kontakt and allows only one instrument per instance. If you use key switches, you may be fine. If not, you may be in trouble RAM-wise, as I'm not sure the SA player purges when not in use. You would need multiple instances of each instrument to cover the needed articulations.



The player uses global memory sharing voodoo I believe, Andy's track weighed in at 5.8GB memory so that might give an indication of requirements. 
At 26:43 on the video you can see where he deletes articulations, so I guess you could tailor a template for a struggling system and use freeze tracks/bounce etc as usual in low performance cases. But hopefully they introduce some purge function at some point.


----------



## rudi

Alex Fraser said:


> We need spitfire to publish that articulation list. That’ll fuel another 30 pages. 😎


I think you underestimate the VI-Control community


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Nyran said:


> Andy's demo is on another level of orchestration, composition and technical fluidity. I think all the other demos don't really show the same strengths. We have a long way until the release. I am too eager to listen to the walkthrough and first impressions. It seems impressive for a full orchestra package but we have to see, at least in terms of playability and articulations.



I mean he is very good of course,and there comes the point also that I say a way way better re-creating performance through his meticously programming and knowledge how to use samples to their most strenghts. 
And so all those other demos reveal how that library would sound in the hands of the common crowd, you know. And I think that this is good and fair because only listening to his demos would create a slight wrong expectation what you guys would sound like when working with that library. 

There are only a very few people out there who are that good like he is and so I appreciate that SFA puts up not only his demos. But it also shows me one thing: While I love the sound of the BBC Orchestra so far, comparing the demos to some of the best OT demos, they are in particular not better, I mean they sound different, but better in terms of realism. Not for me. You know checking out old H.Schwarzer demos for Berlin Strings (which are old) they still sound absolutely fantastic. But it is the guy behind it, not the library only. What I personally like on this one is the very pristine in your face yet deep Z-Depth sound with a short reverbtime which is a bit of unique thing for me. 

But again: Take those other demos as a general guideline so then you know how you would sound when working with the BBC Orchestra.


----------



## MartinH.

Zedcars said:


> I really don’t think Google Translate got this right at all, or else you guys have the weirdest conversations...



It is remarkably accurate considering how far removed the language is from "regular" German.
They are quoting ancient German memes back and forth. That's why it makes no sense to anyone who doesn't know "Sinnlos im Weltraum".




OleJoergensen said:


> Maybe we should have a thread something like “which coffee, tea and chocolate brand, speed up your workflow?”....



Like the caffeine infused chocolate used by the Nazis in WW2? They are still manufacturing it.


----------



## muk

Concur with @Nyran and @AlexanderSchiborr While the other demos are very good, to my ears they don't have that 'not from this world'-quality of Andy Blaney's piece. In fact, personally I do hear some less convincing passages. Yes, the demos do sound very good. But to me they don't suggest that the library will be way better than all the competition. As Alexander wrote, to me they sound different, but not more realistic than competitors demos.

That being said, I do very much like the 'classical orchestra' sound. The rather dry sound with a lot of depth is something I don't hear in any competitors product.

Ironically I also prefer the mix in Andy Blaney's demos over the other mixes, despite - or precisely because of - it not having additional reverb on it. To me it uses the strengths of the classical orchestra sound, while the other demos try to slightly change it towards a film score sound.


----------



## yellowtone

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> But it also shows me one thing: While I love the sound of the BBC Orchestra so far, comparing the demos to some of the best OT demos, they are in particular not better, I mean they sound different, but better in terms of realism. Not for me. You know checking out old H.Schwarzer demos for Berlin Strings (which are old) they still sound absolutely fantastic. But it is the guy behind it, not the library only. What I personally like on this one is the very pristine in your face yet deep Z-Depth sound with a short reverbtime which is a bit of unique thing for me.



This is a super insightful way to think about BBCSO. I agree that to my ear I'm not hearing anything in these demos that is "better" than other products from SA or OT for example. The member compositions on this forum from @Ben E, @Saxer and @AlexanderSchiborr, to name only 3 examples, prove to me that existing libraries have plenty to offer in creating the quality and realism that I'm looking to do. That said, I'm in the same boat as @muk :



muk said:


> Concur with @Nyran and @AlexanderSchiborr
> That being said, I do very much like the 'classical orchestra' sound. The rather dry sound with a lot of depth is something I don't hear in any competitors product.
> 
> Ironically I also prefer the mix in Andy Blaney's demos over the other mixes, despite - or precisely because of - it not having additional reverb on it. To me it uses the strengths of the classical orchestra sound, while the other demos try to slightly change it towards a film score sound.



I also think that the member compositions I referenced above are great examples of getting that 'classical orchestra sound' with current libraries. But if it's easier, with the same amount of articulations and options, with BBCSO, then I'm definitely all in. Sort of losing my mind waiting for the articulation list and walk throughs...


----------



## Alex Fraser

yellowtone said:


> This is a super insightful way to think about BBCSO. I agree that to my ear I'm not hearing anything in these demos that is "better" than other products from SA or OT for example.


Perhaps we should define _"better."_

BBCSO won't let anyone create a more realistic or "better" mockup than using another library. That - as always - is down to talent and knowledge. We shouldn't get hung up comparing the library to others in terms of realism.

The USP here is the "BBC experience" with all parts of the orchestra bundled into a single plugin with the promise of further support via templates, sharing etc. That and the million or so mic sources.

Those who can create Andy Blaney style masterpieces will always be able to create them no matter what library is used. I think Spitfire are simply suggesting you'll have an easier and more pleasant time composing with BBCSO, with a workflow designed around integration and ease of use.

That works for me. And the library sounds _great._


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Alex Fraser said:


> Perhaps we should define _"better."_
> 
> BBCSO won't let anyone create a more realistic or "better" mockup than using another library. That - as always - is down to talent and knowledge. We shouldn't get hung up comparing the library to others in terms of realism.
> 
> The USP here is the "BBC" sound with all parts of the orchestra bundled into a single plugin for ease of use. And a promise of further support via templates, sharing etc. That and the million or so mic sources.
> 
> Those who can create Andy Blaney style masterpieces will always be able to create them no matter what library is used. I think Spitfire are simply suggesting you'll have an easier and more pleasant time composing with BBCSO, with a workflow designed around integration and ease of use.
> 
> That works for me. And the library sounds _great._



Yes exactly, it depends so much on the input and the libraty itself. My point was merely that people should buy BBCO when they want exactly that kind of sound but not because they feel that it makes their mockups more realistic. Because that´s a trap where many fall in unfortunately (myself years and years ago). BBCO has a very disctinctive special sound as I described and its great definitely.
But if someone just wants to have realism..OT does very well too, as older SFA libraries as well or even old HW orchestra too. As you said: Some people can let sound a 100 Dollar Guitar totally awesome. Its like great vocalists who sing over a cheap SM 58 and you wonder why that sounds good. Well, it is the voice and performance.


----------



## Sovereign

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Yes exactly, it depends so much on the input and the libraty itself. My point was merely that people should buy BBCO when they want exactly that kind of sound but not because they feel that it makes their mockups more realistic.


It is almost as if some people expect these new libraries to be magical, where with one press of a button they become master composers. Doesn't work that way. The demos, especially the one by Andy, shows what is possible. But many will have to work hard to get there to acquire those skills.


----------



## rudi

Yes, totally. When I started playing the drums years ago, the drummer in our band had a go on my portable Arbiter Flats drums (think the sound of Tupperware containers being hit by a wooden spoon in terms of tonality and quality). He sounded far better than me by a factor of at least a hundred. He let me have a go on his super-expensive Pearls Masters, drum kit... I sounded like... well, let's just say not good at all. A good musician will make good music on a whole range of different quality instruments... a beginner not so.

I would also point out that Mr Blaney probably didn't have much time to put his demo together. I am sure I could spend six months and come nowhere near his level of skills or musicianship. It reminds me of a possibly apocryphal quote about an artist quickly drawing a sketch and his client complainng it only took him a few minutes... "yes, but it took me lifetime of experience to be able to do that" the artist replied.


----------



## rudi

Sovereign said:


> It is almost as if some people expect these new libraries to be magical, where with one press of a button they become master composers. Doesn't work that way. The demos, especially the one by Andy, shows what is possible. But many will have to work hard to get there to acquire those skills.


Darn... I wanted so much to believe in magic


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Sovereign said:


> It is almost as if some people expect these new libraries to be magical, where with one press of a button they become master composers. Doesn't work that way. The demos, especially the one by Andy, shows what is possible. But many will have to work hard to get there to acquire those skills.



Yeah and tbh with you: I can understand that, when you are starting out and have not much experience, it is normal. Also the companies out there makes your life not easier because they suggest that too, I mean they don´t say it..but the demos and walktrhoughs are very tempting, lets put it this way. So buying their sound gives you that sound. In theory..yes, in theory....unfortunately..its not quite like that..otherwise 1000s of blaneys would run around.

I remember back in 2012 where I bought Hollywood Strings Diamond boxed..I was stoked by the demos. (still sound good). I was so excited to use that library

Then I started using the library and my stuff didn´t sound good at all. Why was that:

1. My writing was shit (check)
2. My orchestration was shit (check)
3. My productions skills were shit (check)
4. My programming was kindergarten level. (check)
5. The library has a longer learning curve (Check)
6. My expactations were wrong set. (double check)

Result: Frustration (Triple check)


----------



## David Gosnell

Orchestration and composition skills are obviously hugely important in creating an enjoyable musical performance - and a sense of realism where it comes to using instruments idiomatically. When I talk about Andy's 'secret sauce' it is more about how he can make one note sound.

When I play a Bb2 with SSB trombone it sounds like it does when Homay, Oliver, Paul and Christian use it. Its tough to tell where it is on the stage in terms of stereo placement. It's quite brittle at high dynamics and you fight a constant battle with phasing issues - the more mics you use the less the phasing, but the more it kind of bleeds over everything else spatially - with the left channel often louder than the right. When Andy plays a Bb2, the sound is clear, clean and shiny, it is sitting exactly where it should be both left to right and front to back and phase-free and I can easily picture exactly where the whole section is sitting. The whole thing just has an amazing clarity and space that doesn't seem to come out of the box.

Is it EQ and PowerPan, is he using MIR, what mic mix is he using? I guess I would just love to look under the hood to see the entire processing chain for that one Bb2 and discover the recipe for the secret sauce! 🤷‍♂️ 😂


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

David Gosnell said:


> Orchestration and composition skills are obviously hugely important in creating an enjoyable musical performance - and a sense of realism where it comes to using instruments idiomatically. When I talk about Andy's 'secret sauce' it is more about how he can make one note sound.
> 
> When I play a Bb2 with SSB trombone it sounds like it does when Homay, Oliver, Paul and Christian use it. Its tough to tell where it is on the stage in terms of stereo placement. It's quite brittle at high dynamics and you fight a constant battle with phasing issues - the more mics you use the less the phasing, but the more it kind of bleeds over everything else spatially - with the left channel often louder than the right. When Andy plays a Bb2, the sound is clear, clean and shiny, it is sitting exactly where it should be both left to right and front to back and phase-free and I can easily picture exactly where the whole section is sitting. The whole thing just has an amazing clarity and space that doesn't seem to come out of the box.
> 
> Is it EQ and PowerPan, is he using MIR, what mic mix is he using? I guess I would just love to look under the hood to see the entire processing chain for that one Bb2 and discover the recipe for the secret sauce! 🤷‍♂️ 😂



Listen: It is programming mostly. Learn how to program a sample to create a peformance.


----------



## Ihnoc

I enjoyed Oliver and Homay's demos. They both felt like the kind of thing I would write (or hope to write) including some of the orchestration choices.

I'm liking the strings, percussion and harp. Somewhat sorted for brass and winds but the depth of mutes for strings will put things in competition to Berlin Strings and Percussion that I've yet to purchase.

Looking forward to Paul being excited and showing us the patches, as well as an articulation list!


----------



## redlester

yellowtone said:


> Sort of losing my mind waiting for the articulation list and walk throughs...



I get the feeling they are still compiling it, and basing the decisions partly on what they are reading people want on here.


----------



## David Gosnell

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Listen: It is programming mostly. Learn how to program a sample to create a peformance.


When you use the word 'programming' are you referring to midi CC or the entire process of programming mixing and mastering? I'm not sure wiggling CC: 10 will guarantee a perfect 3D stereo placement? I am suggesting that in addition to knowing 'how to programme a sample to create a performance', Andy has a unique signal chain between Kontakt and the master bus that is more effective than anyone else's. If it were just about programming chops, a lot more people - especially employees of Spitfire - could create the sound Andy creates - even if the compositions weren't of the same quality - but they don't.


----------



## Zero&One

Alex Fraser said:


> Those who can create Andy Blaney style masterpieces will always be able to create them no matter what library is used.



It's a heavy cross for me to bear, but I keep myself grounded and humble.


----------



## Alex Fraser

David Gosnell said:


> Orchestration and composition skills are obviously hugely important in creating an enjoyable musical performance - and a sense of realism where it comes to using instruments idiomatically. When I talk about Andy's 'secret sauce' it is more about how he can make one note sound.
> 
> When I play a Bb2 with SSB trombone it sounds like it does when Homay, Oliver, Paul and Christian use it. Its tough to tell where it is on the stage in terms of stereo placement. It's quite brittle at high dynamics and you fight a constant battle with phasing issues - the more mics you use the less the phasing, but the more it kind of bleeds over everything else spatially - with the left channel often louder than the right. When Andy plays a Bb2, the sound is clear, clean and shiny, it is sitting exactly where it should be both left to right and front to back and phase-free and I can easily picture exactly where the whole section is sitting. The whole thing just has an amazing clarity and space that doesn't seem to come out of the box.
> 
> Is it EQ and PowerPan, is he using MIR, what mic mix is he using? I guess I would just love to look under the hood to see the entire processing chain for that one Bb2 and discover the recipe for the secret sauce! 🤷‍♂️ 😂


If we're talking about the BBCSO Mr Blaney masterpiece, it was done using one of the pre-made mixes with some of the spill mics added. So in this instance, it's down to musical talent and knowledge. 

Edit: Such as that displayed by @James H, apparently. 😅


----------



## David Gosnell

Alex Fraser said:


> If we're talking about the BBCSO Mr Blaney masterpiece, it was done using one of the pre-made mixes with some of the spill mics added. So in this instance, it's down to musical talent and knowledge.
> 
> Edit: Such as that displayed by @James H, apparently. 😅


In this instance, Christian's demo sounded quite similar in terms of clarity and 3D space. With previous SF libraries, that has not been the case. Did they actually state Andy had used no additional processing in the presentation, or just that there was no additional reverb?

To be clear, I'm not dissing Andy in any way - if you are writing music as a job using samples, a mastery of signal processing is an integral part of 'musical talent and knowledge' as far as I'm concerned!


----------



## Alex Fraser

David Gosnell said:


> In this instance, Christian's demo sounded quite similar in terms of clarity and 3D space. With previous SF libraries, that has not been the case. Did they actually state Andy had used no additional processing in the presentation, or just that there was no additional reverb?


Erm, from memory, the demo was "what it sounds like out of the box.." if that helps?


----------



## Parsifal666

David Gosnell said:


> When I play a Bb2 with SSB trombone it sounds like it does when Homay, Oliver, Paul and Christian use it. Its tough to tell where it is on the stage in terms of stereo placement. It's quite brittle at high dynamics and you fight a constant battle with phasing issues - the more mics you use the less the phasing, but the more it kind of bleeds over everything else spatially - with the left channel often louder than the right. When Andy plays a Bb2, the sound is clear, clean and shiny, it is sitting exactly where it should be both left to right and front to back and phase-free and I can easily picture exactly where the whole section is sitting. The whole thing just has an amazing clarity and space that doesn't seem to come out of the box.
> 
> Is it EQ and PowerPan, is he using MIR, what mic mix is he using? I guess I would just love to look under the hood to see the entire processing chain for that one Bb2 and discover the recipe for the secret sauce! 🤷‍♂️ 😂



Congratulations you made me feel better. I thought I was the only poor fool stuck with Spitfire Studio Brass (translated: UGH).

No offense.


----------



## Scamper

Alex Fraser said:


> Erm, from memory, the demo was "what it sounds like out of the box.." if that helps?



Right, out of the box and using just one of the Jake Jackson mixes with some spill mics.


----------



## David Gosnell

Alex Fraser said:


> Erm, from memory, the demo was "what it sounds like out of the box.." if that helps?


Well, that's got to be a plus I think! 🙂


----------



## David Gosnell

Parsifal666 said:


> Congratulations you made me feel better. I thought I was the only poor fool stuck with Spitfire Studio Brass (translated: UGH).
> 
> No offense.


Sorry - I should have been more specific - I was talking about SF Symphonic Brass. Studio Brass may have some issues, but stereo placement isn't really one of them. It's one of the interesting features of Christian's demo which combines the two that you can spot the Symphonic brass because you can't really tell where they are in the room whereas the Studio brass pretty much stay where you put them. They (Studio) are a bit more 2 dimensional - but for modern film scoring that's not really such an issue as 'forward brass' are pretty much the norm I think.


----------



## Parsifal666

David Gosnell said:


> Sorry - I should have been more specific - I was talking about SF Symphonic Brass. Studio Brass may have some issues, but stereo placement isn't really one of them. It's one of the interesting features of Christian's demo which combines the two that you can spot the Symphonic brass because you can't really tell where they are in the room whereas the Studio brass pretty much stay where you put them. They (Studio) are a bit more 2 dimensional - but for modern film scoring that's not really such an issue as 'forward brass' are pretty much the norm I think.



Ewwps, sorry.


----------



## rudi

David Gosnell said:


> Is it EQ and PowerPan, is he using MIR, what mic mix is he using? I guess I would just love to look under the hood to see the entire processing chain for that one Bb2 and discover the recipe for the secret sauce! 🤷‍♂️ 😂


Yes! We want to know Andy's secret sauce recipe (or at least a bit of it) 

On a more serious note, part of the BBCSO brief is to create a common ground from which people can share orchestration and performance snippets without having to worry about using different and incompatible libraries, something which is not easily feasible at the moment.

It would be great to have access to maybe 4-8 bars of Andy's, or other masters of music to be able to study and learn how they achieve their results. Likewise with mockups of classics etc. Paul and Christian were very intent that this was one of the goals (education) of BBCSO.


----------



## Garry

I just posted this in Christian's thread, but re-posting here, so that as many people as possible see it: it would be great to show some appreciation to Andy, and maybe, if we can get enough votes, he can be persuaded to give us some insight, using the new BBSCO.

-----------------

Hi Christian,

Given all of the well-deserved and universally positive praise of Andy Blaney on the BBCSO thread in response to his most recent demo (but actually in response to seemingly every demo he does!), I started to Google him, and found there's surprisingly little to be found, for someone of such obvious talent. There's even an Andy Blaney appreciation thread on VI-C here, from 4 years ago, but again, surprisingly little follow up of this elusive genius!

Any chance of a future crib or composer focus - perhaps this would be a good topic as part of the revamp of the Journal you mentioned that you and Paul will be taking over?

Or here's an idea - how about Andy does a walkthrough of his demo, as part of the promo for BBCSO?

*What does the VI-C community think - would this be of interest, if Christian could persuade Andy to do it?? 'Like' if you agree, so that we can count up the votes. *


----------



## KEM

Garry said:


> I just posted this in Christian's thread, but re-posting here, so that as many people as possible see it: it would be great to show some appreciation to Andy, and maybe, if we can get enough votes, he can be persuaded to give us some insight, using the new BBSCO.
> 
> -----------------
> 
> Hi Christian,
> 
> Given all of the well-deserved and universally positive praise of Andy Blaney on the BBCSO thread in response to his most recent demo (but actually in response to seemingly every demo he does!), I started to Google him, and found there's surprisingly little to be found, for someone of such obvious talent. There's even an Andy Blaney appreciation thread on VI-C here, from 4 years ago, but again, surprisingly little follow up of this illusive genius!
> 
> Any chance of a future crib or composer focus - perhaps this would be a good topic as part of the revamp of the Journal you mentioned that you and Paul will be taking over?
> 
> Or here's an idea - how about Andy does a walkthrough of his demo, as part of the promo for BBCSO?
> 
> *What does the VI-C community think - would this be of interest, if Christian could persuade Andy to do it?? 'Like' if you agree, so that we can count up the votes. *



I’m definitely in


----------



## rudi

Count me in too!

PS or maybe we find out that Andy Blaney has been an alter-ego all along... or a nom-de-plume for various members of the Spitftire Audio team... or JW moonlighting as a demo writer...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Ihnoc said:


> I enjoyed Oliver and Homay's demos. They both felt like the kind of thing I would write (or hope to write) including some of the orchestration choices.
> 
> I'm liking the strings, percussion and harp. Somewhat sorted for brass and winds but the depth of mutes for strings will put things in competition to Berlin Strings and Percussion that I've yet to purchase.
> 
> Looking forward to Paul being excited and showing us the patches, as well as an articulation list!



I feel the opposite. IMHO, I don't think the demo "Your Majesty" is doing them any favours. The piece is really good, but to me the patches sound somewhat synthetic, especially the brass during the intro.


----------



## CT

Wolfie2112 said:


> I feel the opposite. IMHO, I don't think the demo "Your Majesty" is doing them any favours. The piece is really good, but to me the patches sound somewhat synthetic, especially the brass during the intro.



Yes, there's a brief passage at the beginning that is the weakest BBCSO has sounded yet to me, but it's obviously a programming issue. The performance just needs to be smoothed out.


----------



## PaulieDC

rudi said:


> Count me in too!
> 
> PS or maybe we find out that Andy Blaney has been an alter-ego all along... or a nom-de-plume for various members of the Spitftire Audio team... or JW moonlighting as a demo writer...


First thing that hit me too, lol!
+1 from me.


----------



## bvaughn0402

I debated the purchase ... but the (potential) promise of sharing MIDI performances and templates was a huge draw for me. I really hope I understood their intention on that (i.e., something they are planning on doing, not just a "hey this would be cool if our users ended up doing it").


----------



## VinRice

Yeah, Mr Blaney is an elusive character, and that of course is up to him. I would kill for the MIDI file of that demo though. His orchestration is obviously great but it's the harmonic language and pacing that gets me. 

It's pretty sophisticated and I'm assuming it's off an octotonic scale which allows both the dissonant (dare I say it EIS style) structures and the slides into major and dorian tonalities during the piece whilst remaining a coherent whole. 

I believe he also plays everything in using legato patches where available, which explains the very natural flow. Love it. I'm pushing myself in a similar direction but with the increased freedom of an 8-note scale comes greater risk of it being complete chaos. 

Don't you just love music?


----------



## Denkii

When you google Andy Blaney composer and search for pictures, then scroll down a bit, this comes up:





Alter ego confirmed.


----------



## David Gosnell

According to VSL...






At least, that's how he is alleged to have looked 13 years ago - before he moved his studio into a hollowed out volcano on a small island 15 miles outside of Poole harbour...

Of course - there might be a slightly more orthodox way to stalk him  



https://vi-control.net/community/members/andy-b.98/


----------



## Symfoniq

I believe one of Christian's template videos featured Andy Blaney not too long ago.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Symfoniq said:


> I believe one of Christian's template videos featured Andy Blaney not too long ago.


Actually, I’ve changed my mind. I don’t want to know any more about Andy Blaney. It would spoil the mystery.

Let him remain a mythical composer who occasionally descends from upon high and blesses us with midi magic.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Denkii said:


> When you google Andy Blaney composer and search for pictures, then scroll down a bit, this comes up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alter ego confirmed.


----------



## JEPA

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> 1. My writing was shit (check)
> 2. My orchestration was shit (check)
> 3. My productions skills were shit (check)
> 4. My programming was kindergarten level. (check)
> 5. The library has a longer learning curve (Check)
> 6. My expactations were wrong set. (double check)
> 
> Result: Frustration (Triple check)


that's a good list Alexander, specially because all depend on ourselves!


----------



## Denkii

AlexanderSchiborr said:


>


That's why I said alter ego confirmed...as in half life 3 confirmed.
Schwarzer heißer Kaffee Junge! Werd mal wach.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

JEPA said:


> that's a good list Alexander, specially because all depend on ourselves!


Yepp :D


Denkii said:


> That's why I said alter ego confirmed...as in half life 3 confirmed.
> Schwarzer heißer Kaffee Junge! Werd mal wach.


bin schon auffer couch und glotz bloodsport


----------



## VinRice

I think I've gone spontaneously dyslexic...


----------



## David Gosnell

OK, I promise - my last bit of Fanboi - I just think it kind of ties up some of the stuff we have been discussing. This is a classical mock up that Mr. Blaney did I assume around 2005:

Jupiter from Holst's Planets Suite (sorry, VSL demo player doesn't give me an easy way to embed)

It was created using VSL, when VSL was a mix of Kontakt and GigaStudio! But, it speaks to learning your chops by programming classical stuff, and if you are trying to make old skool VSL midi sound convincing, you have to know your EQ, reverb and stereo placement - because none of that stuff was coming out of the box in those days. [I'm guessing he later bought MIR Pro when it came out 🙂] Even then, Andy knew how to create a space for the performance to breathe in and in which details could shine through. Skills that apparently serve him well to this day - unless of course SFBBCSO makes them no longer necessary


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

David Gosnell said:


> OK, I promise - my last bit of Fanboi - I just think it kind of ties up some of the stuff we have been discussing. This is a classical mock up that Mr. Blaney did I assume around 2005:
> 
> Jupiter from Holst's Planets Suite (sorry, VSL demo player doesn't give me an easy way to embed)
> 
> It was created using VSL, when VSL was a mix of Kontakt and GigaStudio! But, it speaks to learning your chops by programming classical stuff, and if you are trying to make old skool VSL midi sound convincing, you have to know your EQ, reverb and stereo placement - because none of that stuff was coming out of the box in those days. [I'm guessing he later bought MIR Pro when it came out 🙂] Even then, Andy knew how to create a space for the performance to breathe in and in which details could shine through. Skills that apparently serve him well to this day - unless of course SFBBCSO makes them no longer necessary


Again one last try: its not the space which creates the performance and the effect of liveliness. But man you win. Cheers


----------



## Sovereign

David Gosnell said:


> OK, I promise - my last bit of Fanboi - I just think it kind of ties up some of the stuff we have been discussing. This is a classical mock up that Mr. Blaney did I assume around 2005:


The mockup he did of Debussy's La Mer is way more stunning. Still have that mp3 somewhere.


----------



## Zedcars

Sovereign said:


> The mockup he did of Debussy's La Mer is way more stunning. Still have that mp3 somewhere.


I was just going to mention that.

There is an ancient thread on Northern Sounds from 2004 that discusses it. If anyone is interested, here is the link to the archive:

http://northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php/12510-Debussy-Mockup
Seems like everyone was blown away back then too.


----------



## CT

Andy's VSL demos are great in most of the ways that Andy's demos are usually great, but I do think it's very telling hearing certain VI's in his hands compared to others.


----------



## Sovereign

Zedcars said:


> There is an ancient thread on Northern Sounds from 2004 that discusses it. If anyone is interested, here is the link to the archive:


Ah, the fond memories of Northern Sounds.


----------



## David Gosnell

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Again one last try: its not the space which creates the performance and the effect of liveliness. But man you win. Cheers


OK, can't resist: if you don't create space for the sampled instruments to sit in, tame resonances, eq out harsh mids and low-mid room build up, it doesn't really matter what you write or how finely crafted your 'performance' is - because when you layer up lots of samples, half of it will be trampling all over the other half - rendering it inaudible 😘 

Of course, Plan B - don't try to write stuff with a lot of fast detail - then it doesn't matter.

Lets hope Plan C is buy SFBBCSO?

Prost!


----------



## rudi

VinRice said:


> It's pretty sophisticated and I'm assuming it's off an octotonic scale which allows both the dissonant (dare I say it EIS style) structures and the slides into major and dorian tonalities during the piece whilst remaining a coherent whole.


I am not really sure I understand the above... but I am impressed


----------



## Zedcars

Sovereign said:


> Ah, the fond memories of Northern Sounds.


I remember being a lurker back in the day, but I think I was far too scared to post anything lol


----------



## Scamper

David Gosnell said:


> OK, I promise - my last bit of Fanboi - I just think it kind of ties up some of the stuff we have been discussing. This is a classical mock up that Mr. Blaney did I assume around 2005:
> 
> Jupiter from Holst's Planets Suite (sorry, VSL demo player doesn't give me an easy way to embed)



Wow, that's quite the mockup considering the old samples.
Are those actually the VSL samples, that are now part of the Kontakt factory library?


----------



## zolhof

Oh the Debussy, I remember that one. Andy broke our little corner of the Internet with that mockup haha Here are a couple of quotes to put things into perspective:

_"All of the VSL instruments are running on a P4 2.4gHz, using Giga Studio and Kontakt. My sequencer (DP) is running on a G4 and, you guessed it, running 2 instances of Altiverb."

"Yes it is possible to run both Giga and Kontakt on a single machine and if you have something like V-Stack you can get more than 1 instance of Kontakt."
_
It's not about the fastest computers, magical plugins or shiny new libraries... the limitation is often elsewhere. A teacher once told me: "learn the technical aspects but don't be fooled by it: that's not music". Transcribe your favorite pieces, watch a real orchestra perform regularly, get to know the musicians and listen to their experiences, train your ears to understand what makes an authentic performance sounds the way it does. Be water, my friends.


----------



## dzilizzi

Alex Fraser said:


> Perhaps we should define _"better."_
> 
> BBCSO won't let anyone create a more realistic or "better" mockup than using another library. That - as always - is down to talent and knowledge. We shouldn't get hung up comparing the library to others in terms of realism.
> 
> The USP here is the "BBC experience" with all parts of the orchestra bundled into a single plugin with the promise of further support via templates, sharing etc. That and the million or so mic sources.
> 
> Those who can create Andy Blaney style masterpieces will always be able to create them no matter what library is used. I think Spitfire are simply suggesting you'll have an easier and more pleasant time composing with BBCSO, with a workflow designed around integration and ease of use.
> 
> That works for me. And the library sounds _great._


No, this can't be correct. If I buy BBCSO, I should be able to make amazing pieces that I can't do with SSO or EWSO. Or any other orchestra. Or really any VI. But, yeah, it will fix everything I do wrong. 

It will be MAGIC!


----------



## ism

David Gosnell said:


> evious SF libraries





Alex Fraser said:


> Perhaps we should define _"better."_
> 
> BBCSO won't let anyone create a more realistic or "better" mockup than using another library. That - as always - is down to talent and knowledge. We shouldn't get hung up comparing the library to others in terms of realism.
> 
> The USP here is the "BBC experience" with all parts of the orchestra bundled into a single plugin with the promise of further support via templates, sharing etc. That and the million or so mic sources.
> 
> Those who can create Andy Blaney style masterpieces will always be able to create them no matter what library is used. I think Spitfire are simply suggesting you'll have an easier and more pleasant time composing with BBCSO, with a workflow designed around integration and ease of use.
> 
> That works for me. And the library sounds _great._



Yes, and there an important nuance to keep in mind regarding the maxim that 'libraries don't make you a better composer".

One obvious case: I can compose far more beautiful with Tundra that I with my old VSL, just because that's how Tundra works.

It is of course also true that an only averagely talented cat playing Tundra with only a minimum of discernment of where she steps while walking across a keyboard could also compose more beautiful music with Tundra that I could with my old VSL library. But this in no way dilutes the point.


----------



## Geoff Grace

Okay, I can see that it's time to remind people of this thread:

My Big Fat Guide to Using a Virtual Orchestra

Lots of great suggestions in the accompanying video by *Alex Ball *(@alexballmusic):



Best,

Geoff


----------



## jamwerks

In 2019 we should have control over the attacks of the notes, and we should also be able to end legato passages with short notes, accents, etc. OT has had this covered for several years. Hopefully this new SF is on the same level....


----------



## KEM

jamwerks said:


> In 2019 we should have control over the attacks of the notes, and we should also be able to end legato passages with short notes, accents, etc. OT has had this covered for several years. Hopefully this new SF is on the same level....



If only OT recorded their samples at AIR...


----------



## Chungus

KEM said:


> If only OT recorded their samples at AIR...


I personally much prefer the sound of Teldex over AIR. The former is in the Goldilocks zone of reverberance for me, while the latter is just drowning in it.


----------



## jamwerks

KEM said:


> If only OT recorded their samples at AIR...


At AIR? The exciting thing for me about the BBC is that it's not in AIR. You have the SSO for that...

I'd love to see the midi files for both Oliver and Homays pieces. Apart from their abilities to program all that with top notch results, they show very advanced harmonic palets, and imaginative and knowledgeble orchestration technics. There's a lot of mid-ground and back-round movement going on there that's very well done!


----------



## yellowtone

Geoff Grace said:


> Okay, I can see that it's time to remind people of this thread:
> 
> My Big Fat Guide to Using a Virtual Orchestra
> 
> Lots of great suggestions in the accompanying video by *Alex Ball *(@alexballmusic):
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff




Holy crap! This should be a sticky thread at the top of the Newbie Questions forum. This is my first time seeing this and I wish I had started with this video at the very beginning. What an amazing tutorial, thanks for creating and sharing this @alexballmusic. Are there other tutorials like this I should be aware of?? I learned more in this 60 minutes than weeks reading this forum and trial and error.


----------



## dcoscina

Alex Fraser said:


> Perhaps we should define _"better."_
> 
> BBCSO won't let anyone create a more realistic or "better" mockup than using another library. That - as always - is down to talent and knowledge. We shouldn't get hung up comparing the library to others in terms of realism.
> 
> The USP here is the "BBC experience" with all parts of the orchestra bundled into a single plugin with the promise of further support via templates, sharing etc. That and the million or so mic sources.
> 
> Those who can create Andy Blaney style masterpieces will always be able to create them no matter what library is used. I think Spitfire are simply suggesting you'll have an easier and more pleasant time composing with BBCSO, with a workflow designed around integration and ease of use.
> 
> That works for me. And the library sounds _great._


Totally agree. It’s about compositional ergonomics more than anything, at least for me. Will this library be easier to translate what I hear in my head out into the world? As it stands now, it takes several libraries and mixing/matching to achieve what I want and I get bogged down with the logistics of grabbing an oboe here, a horn trill there...


----------



## prodigalson

jamwerks said:


> In 2019 we should have control over the attacks of the notes, and we should also be able to end legato passages with short notes, accents, etc. OT has had this covered for several years. Hopefully this new SF is on the same level....



This is what Spitfire's performance legato patches do and have done for a few years now.


----------



## Sovereign

prodigalson said:


> This is what Spitfire's performance legato patches do and have done for a few years now.


As far as I can tell not in Hans Zimmer Strings though. I do hope this is worked into the BBC orchestra.


----------



## JohnG

"Composers are baffled by this One Simple Trick..."

It's the composer AND the sounds.  Why do HZ, James Newton Howard, John Williams etc. work with the same people, in particular halls, over and over? Why does HZ seem to create new libraries for himself and use so much technology? Because 'that sound' is part of the deal.

It's nonsense to state that the technical / sonic elements don't matter -- of course they do.

But I think Andy demonstrates that it's mostly the composer.


----------



## rudi

JohnG said:


> "Composers are baffled by this One Simple Trick..."
> 
> It's the composer AND the sounds. Why do HZ, James Newton Howard, John Williams etc. work with the same people, in particular halls, over and over? Why does HZ seem to create new libraries for himself and use so much technology? Because 'that sound' is part of the deal.
> 
> It's nonsense to state that the technical / sonic elements don't matter -- of course they do.
> 
> But I think Andy demonstrates that it's mostly the composer.


Absolutely... and by way of illustration I never managed to produce anything even remotely orchestral on my Casio VL-Tone VL-1... but then it could be me


----------



## I like music

rudi said:


> Absolutely... and by way of illustration I never managed to produce anything even remotely orchestral on my Casio VL-Tone VL-1... but then it could be me



You must not have orchestrated it properly.


----------



## jamwerks

prodigalson said:


> This is what Spitfire's performance legato patches do and have done for a few years now.


Does the new Studio series have those, BHTK etc. ? Not sure SF Solo Strings has it. Hopefully BBC will !


----------



## gussunkri

jamwerks said:


> Does the new Studio series have those, BHTK etc. ? Not sure SF Solo Strings has it. Hopefully BBC will !


Studio series do not have them, nor does BHCT. However, the SF Solo Strings have the most advanced form of them, but only for one of the violins.
I have a feeling that BBC will not have them. At least, there was no sign of them during the presentation.


----------



## prodigalson

jamwerks said:


> Does the new Studio series have those, BHTK etc. ? Not sure SF Solo Strings has it. Hopefully BBC will !



The studio series strings do and the Solo Strings Virtuoso violin does too. Not sure about BHCT.


----------



## jamwerks

prodigalson said:


> The studio series strings do and the Solo Strings Virtuoso violin does too. Not sure about BHCT.


Do the Studio Strings have varied attacks (depending on the velocity iinm) like SSS does?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

JohnG said:


> It's the composer AND the sounds.



Yep! If you were to replace all of those patches with a "cheaper" library, even those BBC demos would sound inferior. The orchestration would still be there, but it wouldn't sound very appealing when judging whether or not to purchase. Orchestration and programming are definitely factors, but a great sounding library is just as important.


----------



## AndyP

Wolfie2112 said:


> Yep! If you were to replace all of those patches with a "cheaper" library, even those BBC demos would sound inferior. The orchestration would still be there, but it wouldn't sound very appealing when judging whether or not to purchase. Orchestration and programming are definitely factors, but a great sounding library is just as important.


The clarity of the sounds in the demos is what makes me consider this lib.
All in one, in the same room is already very attractive in comparison to matching several different librarys.
Whether my compositions do justice to this is another topic.


----------



## PaulieDC

Hey All, this is off-topic from the last few replies and it's very likely this has been talked about 14 times over... so here's 15. 

It's simply about the SSD the Spitfire is selling. I chatted with someone when the chat window popped up on the BBCSO page and they told me that the drive is native USB-C which is _great_. AFAIK they don't mention that on the webpage. If they do, then I need to pay more attention, lol.

I've been doing testing on my Win10-based Tower and 2019 laptop which both have a native USB-C port and found out some interesting stuff. First, using a good quality native (no adapters) USB-C to USB-C cable (I bought https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q7P1YQ9 (this one)) makes my current SSD-based external drive run pretty much like an internal SSD on my tower and laptop, speed-wise. For the first time it appears we can be assured an external drive won't slow load times down. But get this: when I used the cable that the external drive maker _provided _which is a USB-C to USB 3 with a C adapter, it slowed down to USB 3 speeds! So I tried other USB-C to USB 3 cables like that all with C adapters, and they all ran like slower USB 3. The takeaway is to always use a native all USB-C cable with the Spitfire drive if you choose to keep the library external AND your motherboard has a USB-C slot. This is huge for laptop users who have USB-C ports! I hope Spitfire supplies a native cable but for compatibility they probably won't. Stuff it in a drawer and get a native if they do.

MAC USERS: I don't have a Mac to test any of this but I would imagine the same holds true, don't use regular USB3 cables with an adapter.

Final note for those with a Windows tower that doesn't support USB-C: There's a great $23 solution which even works with low-profile PCs. Pop in https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Express-Expansion-Asmedia-Computer/dp/B07RZZBHZP (this PCIe card) on your motherboard and boom, you have native USB-C 10gbps speeds for the Spitfire Drive.

Quick tech bit if you are thinking of doing this and don't normally open your case and touch anything: It's super easy to install, you basically need at least a 4X PCIe slot... Your motherboard will most likely have two physical sizes of open slots, one about an inch long which is only 1X speed, and the other about 3-4" long which is 4-16X speed. You'll see that this card has a short 1 inch connector, but you plug it into the 4" slot. It will fit and* it needs to for the speed*. Don't plug it into the 1-inch PCIe slot. It will work but speed will be choked. Motherboard makers will say you can't plug 1X cards into a longer 4X slot blah blah blah. Hogwash, I run several short connector PCIe cards in longer PCIe 4X/8X/16X slots and they always work. Slots are rated differently but the minimum that the Spitfire drive will need is 4X so any of your longer slots will work just fine, pick one and go. Installation: Remove the screw and dust cover plate on the case that lines up with the slot you will use, pop in the card, replace the screw and you are good to go. if they provide a CD with drivers, toss it in the garbage and go to the website and download the latest drivers. But chances are Win 10 will find them.

At first I said NO WAY, I'll just buy an 1TB Samsung 860 and download the library. But I'm rethinking that because we can now get internal drive speeds and I can easily switch between tower and laptop. Plus Spitfire is using a Samsung 860 thankfully, best SATA SSDs available IMO, and they are branding it, sticking it in a case and shipping it. The bare drive is $139, the total Spitfire solution is $199. Looks like Vader is drawing me to the dark side. Help me Obiwan...


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

PaulieDC said:


> Hey All, this is off-topic from the last few replies and it's very likely this has been talked about 14 times over... so here's 15.
> 
> It's simply about the SSD the Spitfire is selling. I chatted with someone when the chat window popped up on the BBCSO page and they told me that the drive is native USB-C which is _great_. AFAIK they don't mention that on the webpage. If they do, then I need to pay more attention, lol.
> 
> I've been doing testing on my Win10-based Tower and 2019 laptop which both have a native USB-C port and found out some interesting stuff. First, using a good quality native (no adapters) USB-C to USB-C cable (I bought https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q7P1YQ9 (this one)) makes my current SSD-based external drive run pretty much like an internal SSD on my tower and laptop, speed-wise. For the first time it appears we can be assured an external drive won't slow load times down. But get this: when I used the cable that the external drive maker _provided _which is a USB-C to USB 3 with a C adapter, it slowed down to USB 3 speeds! So I tried other USB-C to USB 3 cables like that all with C adapters, and they all ran like slower USB 3. The takeaway is to always use a native all USB-C cable with the Spitfire drive if you choose to keep the library external AND your motherboard has a USB-C slot. This is huge for laptop users who have USB-C ports! I hope Spitfire supplies a native cable but for compatibility they probably won't. Stuff it in a drawer and get a native if they do.
> 
> MAC USERS: I don't have a Mac to test any of this but I would imagine the same holds true, don't use regular USB3 cables with an adapter.
> 
> Final note for those with a Windows tower that doesn't support USB-C: There's a great $23 solution which even works with low-profile PCs. Pop in https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Express-Expansion-Asmedia-Computer/dp/B07RZZBHZP (this PCIe card) on your motherboard and boom, you have native USB-C 10gbps speeds for the Spitfire Drive.
> 
> Quick tech bit if you are thinking of doing this and don't normally open your case and touch anything: It's super easy to install, you basically need at least a 4X PCIe slot... Your motherboard will most likely have two physical sizes of open slots, one about an inch long which is only 1X speed, and the other about 3-4" long which is 4-16X speed. You'll see that this card has a short 1 inch connector, but you plug it into the 4" slot. It will fit and* it needs to for the speed*. Don't plug it into the 1-inch PCIe slot. It will work but speed will be choked. Motherboard makers will say you can't plug 1X cards into a longer 4X slot blah blah blah. Hogwash, I run several short connector PCIe cards in longer PCIe 4X/8X/16X slots and they always work. Slots are rated differently but the minimum that the Spitfire drive will need is 4X so any of your longer slots will work just fine, pick one and go. Installation: Remove the screw and dust cover plate on the case that lines up with the slot you will use, pop in the card, replace the screw and you are good to go. if they provide a CD with drivers, toss it in the garbage and go to the website and download the latest drivers. But chances are Win 10 will find them.
> 
> At first I said NO WAY, I'll just buy an 1TB Samsung 860 and download the library. But I'm rethinking that because we can now get internal drive speeds and I can easily switch between tower and laptop. Plus Spitfire is using a Samsung 860 thankfully, best SATA SSDs available IMO, and they are branding it, sticking it in a case and shipping it. The bare drive is $139, the total Spitfire solution is $199. Looks like Vader is drawing me to the dark side. Help me Obiwan...


----------



## Geoff Grace

yellowtone said:


> Holy crap! This should be a sticky thread at the top of the Newbie Questions forum. This is my first time seeing this and I wish I had started with this video at the very beginning. What an amazing tutorial, thanks for creating and sharing this @alexballmusic. Are there other tutorials like this I should be aware of?? I learned more in this 60 minutes than weeks reading this forum and trial and error.


There are more tutorials and guides at *Alex*'s YouTube site, but the one I linked to is the big one. For all things Spitfire and more, *Christian* has helpful videos at his YouTube site as well, as does Spitfire Audio's YouTube site and *Paul Thomson*'s YouTube site.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

PaulieDC said:


> Hey All, this is off-topic from the last few replies and it's very likely this has been talked about 14 times over... so here's 15.
> 
> It's simply about the SSD the Spitfire is selling. I chatted with someone when the chat window popped up on the BBCSO page and they told me that the drive is native USB-C which is _great_. AFAIK they don't mention that on the webpage. If they do, then I need to pay more attention, lol.
> 
> I've been doing testing on my Win10-based Tower and 2019 laptop which both have a native USB-C port and found out some interesting stuff. First, using a good quality native (no adapters) USB-C to USB-C cable (I bought https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q7P1YQ9 (this one)) makes my current SSD-based external drive run pretty much like an internal SSD on my tower and laptop, speed-wise. For the first time it appears we can be assured an external drive won't slow load times down. But get this: when I used the cable that the external drive maker _provided _which is a USB-C to USB 3 with a C adapter, it slowed down to USB 3 speeds! So I tried other USB-C to USB 3 cables like that all with C adapters, and they all ran like slower USB 3. The takeaway is to always use a native all USB-C cable with the Spitfire drive if you choose to keep the library external AND your motherboard has a USB-C slot. This is huge for laptop users who have USB-C ports! I hope Spitfire supplies a native cable but for compatibility they probably won't. Stuff it in a drawer and get a native if they do.
> 
> MAC USERS: I don't have a Mac to test any of this but I would imagine the same holds true, don't use regular USB3 cables with an adapter.
> 
> Final note for those with a Windows tower that doesn't support USB-C: There's a great $23 solution which even works with low-profile PCs. Pop in https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Express-Expansion-Asmedia-Computer/dp/B07RZZBHZP (this PCIe card) on your motherboard and boom, you have native USB-C 10gbps speeds for the Spitfire Drive.
> 
> Quick tech bit if you are thinking of doing this and don't normally open your case and touch anything: It's super easy to install, you basically need at least a 4X PCIe slot... Your motherboard will most likely have two physical sizes of open slots, one about an inch long which is only 1X speed, and the other about 3-4" long which is 4-16X speed. You'll see that this card has a short 1 inch connector, but you plug it into the 4" slot. It will fit and* it needs to for the speed*. Don't plug it into the 1-inch PCIe slot. It will work but speed will be choked. Motherboard makers will say you can't plug 1X cards into a longer 4X slot blah blah blah. Hogwash, I run several short connector PCIe cards in longer PCIe 4X/8X/16X slots and they always work. Slots are rated differently but the minimum that the Spitfire drive will need is 4X so any of your longer slots will work just fine, pick one and go. Installation: Remove the screw and dust cover plate on the case that lines up with the slot you will use, pop in the card, replace the screw and you are good to go. if they provide a CD with drivers, toss it in the garbage and go to the website and download the latest drivers. But chances are Win 10 will find them.
> 
> At first I said NO WAY, I'll just buy an 1TB Samsung 860 and download the library. But I'm rethinking that because we can now get internal drive speeds and I can easily switch between tower and laptop. Plus Spitfire is using a Samsung 860 thankfully, best SATA SSDs available IMO, and they are branding it, sticking it in a case and shipping it. The bare drive is $139, the total Spitfire solution is $199. Looks like Vader is drawing me to the dark side. Help me Obiwan...



They have the 1TB EVO in my neck of the woods for $125, so to me it doesn't make sense to buy BBC already on the SSD.


----------



## Adam Takacs

SAMSUNG 1TB T5 USB 3.1 Type C 1.8" MU-PA1T0B/EU costs 64000 HUF which is cca. 194 €. 
Hungary - 27% VAT rate...:(
I can order the Spitfire SSD for 199€ which is a very fair price.


----------



## PaulieDC

Wolfie2112 said:


> They have the 1TB EVO in my neck of the woods for $125, so to me it doesn't make sense to buy BBC already on the SSD.


Which is what I originally thought too, but then the library would only be on my tower. With the C port I could run an external drive on both machines. A Samsung 1TB SSD external is $180, so call me a dork, I'd like the Spitfire branding for 19 more bucks.


----------



## dzilizzi

PaulieDC said:


> Which is what I originally thought too, but then the library would only be on my tower. With the C port I could run an external drive on both machines. A Samsung 1TB SSD external is $180, so call me a dork, I'd like the Spitfire branding for 19 more bucks.


You know you can get an enclosure for around $9. Though it will probably be USB 3.0.


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> You know you can get an enclosure for around $9. Though it will probably be USB 3.0.


You have to be careful with some of those ‘cheapo’ enclosures. I’ve had so many problems with mine (Ugreen). Even the supplied cable was bad. Also, be careful to get a high quality shielded USB3 cable because I’ve found that they actually can pick up interference from WiFi. This sounds like I’m making $h1t up, but there is a published paper about it:








Intel | Data Center Solutions, IoT, and PC Innovation


Intel's innovation in cloud computing, data center, Internet of Things, and PC solutions is powering the smart and connected digital world we live in.




www.intel.com





I’ve had to turn off my WiFi and use a Ethernet connection.


----------



## NYC Composer

I think Andy B went down to the crossroads and made a deal. That’s why I’m too afraid to listen to his demos.


----------



## Parsifal666

I have BHCT, Albions I-IV, all the Hollywood Diamonds...I see no need for this new library.

Might be one heck of a lot better than Albion One for newbs...but that's not saying much at all imo.

I'm disappointed 

a) because I feel like this is well tread ground in the Spitfire line-up already and

b) the failure to give us fans a Williams, Goldsmith, Mahler, etc. Toolkit. I know the Bernard Herrmann library did quite well, clueless as to why this new library is much of a thing at all.

Spitfire's last relevant release was Spitfire Studio Woodwinds Pro (though I haven't really checkout the St Strings yet). Just my opinion, and let's try to forget the damage to my wallet the abysmally mediocre (at best) St Brass did (junk imo).


----------



## redlester

New template video is now up. Am sure it will be on the video cast thread shortly but for those who can’t wait...


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> You have to be careful with some of those ‘cheapo’ enclosures. I’ve had so many problems with mine (Ugreen). Even the supplied cable was bad. Also, be careful to get a high quality shielded USB3 cable because I’ve found that they actually can pick up interference from WiFi. This sounds like I’m making $h1t up, but there is a published paper about it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel | Data Center Solutions, IoT, and PC Innovation
> 
> 
> Intel's innovation in cloud computing, data center, Internet of Things, and PC solutions is powering the smart and connected digital world we live in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.intel.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve had to turn off my WiFi and use a Ethernet connection.


I usually buy the Sabrent ones. They are pretty reasonably priced in the US and I have not had any problems with them so far.


----------



## dzilizzi

redlester said:


> New template video is now up. Am sure it will be on the video cast thread shortly but for those who can’t wait...



Well, now I really want a Hackingtosh. I think that is the only way I can afford a Mac that will support this type of template.... 

Hopefully another DAW will get a template soon.


----------



## redlester

The product page has already had a few tweaks, including slightly more info on the SSD...



> The best way to use this library is to buy our SSD — a sleek 1TB Samsung 860 EVO drive  housed in our bespoke Spitfire Audio hard case, giving you instant playability. *Unlike our standard hard drive*, the SSD allows you to instantly use the library without having to download — just as fast and reliable, while saving you a huge amount of internal hard drive space. The library is still available to buy on our standard hard drive — you can add this to your cart at checkout.



The part in bold is a bit misleading, surely with the standard hard drive you just have to copy the library over to your working sample drive. So technically, yes, you can't use it "instantly" but you don't have to download it. (I know you could run it off the supplied HDD but they don't recommend that)


----------



## redlester

dzilizzi said:


> Well, now I really want a Hackingtosh. I think that is the only way I can afford a Mac that will support this type of template....
> 
> Hopefully another DAW will get a template soon.



I do have Logic, but doubt the fully loaded template is going to run on my 16GB Mac Mini!


----------



## dzilizzi

redlester said:


> The product page has already had a few tweaks, including slightly more info on the SSD...
> 
> 
> 
> The part in bold is a bit misleading, surely with the standard hard drive you just have to copy the library over to your working sample drive. So technically, yes, you can't use it "instantly" but you don't have to download it. (I know you could run it off the supplied HDD but they don't recommend that)


If it is loaded properly on an SSD, you should be able to use it out of the box. Most of the drives that are installers are spin drives and 5400 RPM, so you wouldn't want to use them. The whole point of an SSD drive would be to have it user ready. And? I would back it up as soon as I got it to a backup drive. Just in case.


----------



## Garry

This new Logic template is really very cool! You may recall the long (and heated) discussion some months ago about whether Spitfire would share Logic files to support their products. "Great idea" said Christian, and now, here it is: this is the perfect vehicle to do so, and entirely negates any further concern about the technicality of doing so.

Right there in front of me now, loaded on my computer, is a template that would have taken me forever to build, and was built by Jake Jackson! How cool is that?!! Imagine the next step: I load up a file into this template that Christian, Paul, Homay or Oliver have produced, and not only can I listen to the track, but I can fully admire and learn from their composition, orchestration, etc. The sharing of these types of files will be of huge benefit for the community, and quite rightly, of huge benefit to Spitfire, because the more we can learn to get the most out of their products, the better for them and for us. Win-win!

Huge thank you Spitfire! I love how this journey is starting off. This blazes a trail that others will likely also jump on board, and really does move us all forward.


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> I do have Logic, but doubt the fully loaded template is going to run on my 16GB Mac Mini!


Dynamic plugin loading might well be your friend here...


----------



## NYC Composer

dzilizzi said:


> If it is loaded properly on an SSD, you should be able to use it out of the box. Most of the drives that are installers are spin drives and 5400 RPM, so you wouldn't want to use them. The whole point of an SSD drive would be to have it user ready. And? I would back it up as soon as I got it to a backup drive. Just in case.



I dunno...is backing up so necessary these days? I would think that if you have a proper license, most companies would allow you to re-download the content. More time consuming, surely, but still.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

erica-grace said:


> Has SFA said that they seated an entire orchestra for each session? Or are we just speculating?



I was at the event and asked this question directly. They did not seat the entire orchestra for each session, just the relevant section they were recording for each day. They only had 3-hour sessions spread over 40 days in a 2-year period, and given the BBC orchestra's busy schedule, it wasn't feasible to get everyone together anyway.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Garry said:


> This new Logic template is really very cool! You may recall the long (and heated) discussion some months ago about whether Spitfire would share Logic files to support their products. "Great idea" said Christian, and now, here it is: this is the perfect vehicle to do so, and entirely negates any further concern about the technicality of doing so.
> 
> Right there in front of me now, loaded on my computer, is a template that would have taken me forever to build, and was built by Jake Jackson! How cool is that?!! Imagine the next step: I load up a file into this template that Christian, Paul, Homay or Oliver have produced, and not only can I listen to the track, but I can fully admire and learn from their composition, orchestration, etc. The sharing of these types of files will be of huge benefit for the community, and quite rightly, of huge benefit to Spitfire, because the more we can learn to get the most out of their products, the better for them and for us. Win-win!
> 
> Huge thank you Spitfire! I love how this journey is starting off. This blazes a trail that others will likely also jump on board, and really does move us all forward.


And this is the point I start hassling Christinan about articulation maps.. 

The template looks ace but it's gonna take a while to get my head around. It's not the way I usually work but I'm going to give it a good go and try to learn 'summit. Looking forward to the sharing aspect of this library too.

Hmmn. _<Checks bank account>_


----------



## Alex Fraser

jamwerks said:


> Do the Studio Strings have varied attacks (depending on the velocity iinm) like SSS does?


No, but it has a legato techniques patch that triggers portamento via velocity.


----------



## redlester

Garry said:


> I load up a file into this template that Christian, Paul, Homay or Oliver have produced



Don’t forget Stig! I mean Andy.


----------



## redlester

dzilizzi said:


> If it is loaded properly on an SSD, you should be able to use it out of the box. Most of the drives that are installers are spin drives and 5400 RPM, so you wouldn't want to use them. The whole point of an SSD drive would be to have it user ready. And? I would back it up as soon as I got it to a backup drive. Just in case.



Indeed but my point was that if you read it a certain way it implies that you still have to download the library if you’ve bought the HDD. Which of course is crazy. I think it’s just worded poorly.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Hi guys, just to address some of the comments in regards to the RAM usage in Andy's demo:

There's only 8 instances of the plugin loaded in the video, so the global RAM is reflecting this value rather than that of the whole project. The project came to a total of 33GB with the final mics loaded. These are a combination of a stereo mix, spill mics, as well as some balcony in places. 

Andy uses Digital Performer and sets up his own custom keyswitches, so in transferring his project over to Logic we used 8 of his custom presets, these are the ones that we focus in on in the video.

Luke


----------



## christianhenson

...and to throw this into the mix...


----------



## barteredbride

christianhenson said:


> ...and to throw this into the mix...




@christianhenson please tell us there will be a Cubase version!!


----------



## barteredbride

But totally hats off to you and Jake for doing this in the first place. Very very kind and all is greatly appreciated.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

This is the part where being a loyal Reaper user has its detriments...


----------



## Noeticus

Thanks, Chris!


----------



## dzilizzi

NYC Composer said:


> I dunno...is backing up so necessary these days? I would think that if you have a proper license, most companies would allow you to re-download the content. More time consuming, surely, but still.


Yes and no. It is 600 GB - well maybe less compressed - and it may be easier to have a backup than download it again. SSD drives are fairly good these days, so maybe not a necessity. I just like a back up of everything since so many times I have not been able to redownload something when I eventually need it. Normally, the install drive is my backup.


----------



## redlester

Regarding the template; have just loaded this up and had a look and am blown away. Being a complete novice regarding track stacks etc. this is going to teach me an awful lot of useful stuff about the more advanced workings of Logic!

Thank you so much for this Christian.


----------



## Zedcars

barteredbride said:


> @christianhenson please tell us there will be a Cubase version!!


He said on in the YT comments section that they had no plans to do other DAWs but was happy to open it up to the community. I suspect someone will sort that out soon, if it’s not already being worked on as I type.

I’m a Cubase user too so I’d also be interested.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

redlester said:


> Indeed but my point was that if you read it a certain way it implies that you still have to download the library if you’ve bought the HDD. Which of course is crazy. I think it’s just worded poorly.



Agreed, I will get that bit reworded. Ben


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Some information about the SSDs if I may. They will be, as discussed, 1TB Samsung 860 Evo drives housed in our custom case and packaging and shipped out (if purchased more than 2 weeks before the release date) in time for the release so that you can plug the drive in, complete the authorisation process with the Spitfire app and get started almost immediately.

It is worth mentioning that it is possible to buy the library on a standard hard drive if you wish, this option is available in the cart during checkout and unlike the SSD, can be used to get your whole order on a drive if you’ve not just bought BBC SO (just don’t buy an SSD and a regular hard drive unless you really want both). If you buy the standard drive, you’ll want to copy it off onto a better performing drive before installing.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Sorry for the barrage - just one more thing. People have discussed Black Friday and Christmas wishlist earlier in the thread and I wanted to let you know that we’ve reworded one of the FAQs because it wasn’t quite accurate. BBC SO will return to its promo price during Black Friday and Christmas wishlist but will not be discounted to the same extent as older libraries. Ben


----------



## redlester

SpitfireSupport said:


> Some information about the SSDs if I may. They will be, as discussed, 1TB Samsung 860 Evo drives housed in our custom case and packaging and shipped out (if purchased more than 2 weeks before the release date) in time for the release so that you can plug the drive in, complete the authorisation process with the Spitfire app and get started almost immediately.
> 
> It is worth mentioning that it is possible to buy the library on a standard hard drive if you wish, this option is available in the cart during checkout and unlike the SSD, can be used to get your whole order on a drive if you’ve not just bought BBC SO (just don’t buy an SSD and a regular hard drive unless you really want both). If you buy the standard drive, you’ll want to copy it off onto a better performing drive before installing.



Thanks for that. I was told on the web site chat that the drive in it’s case is USB-C but comes with a USB 3 adaptor cable. Can you confirm that’s correct?


----------



## Noeticus

SpitfireSupport said:


> Sorry for the barrage - just one more thing. People have discussed Black Friday and Christmas wishlist earlier in the thread and I wanted to let you know that we’ve reworded one of the FAQs because it wasn’t quite accurate. BBC SO will return to its promo price during Black Friday and Christmas wishlist but will not be discounted to the same extent as older libraries. Ben



Will it be discounted just enough to equal what the sale price is now?


----------



## jamwerks

Kudos to SF for providing midi files and templates. Strange imo to favor one daw over the others though.


----------



## Noeticus

It looks like it is.... 

"BBC Symphony Orchestra will be included in our upcoming Black Friday and Christmas sales at the introductory price. " 

Good move!


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Daniel James said:


> Could you take a swing at my question above before you bow out for the day please?
> 
> -DJ



Sorry Daniel, that’s Luke you’re responding to, not me - I’ll let him carry that topic on. We should probably post from different accounts!


----------



## SpitfireSupport

redlester said:


> Thanks for that. I was told on the web site chat that the drive in it’s case is USB-C but comes with a USB 3 adaptor cable. Can you confirm that’s correct?


Correct, the case has a USB-C connector and we provide a USB-C to USB-A cable with it.


----------



## lp59burst

redlester said:


> The product page has already had a few tweaks, including slightly more info on the SSD...
> 
> The part in bold is a bit misleading, surely with the standard hard drive you just have to copy the library over to your working sample drive. So technically, yes, you can't use it "instantly" but you don't have to download it. (I know you could run it off the supplied HDD but they don't recommend that)



"a bit misleading..." really...? that's a stretch...  

It says "Plug in and play on SSD"... that's pretty specific on the "instantly" front...


----------



## redlester

lp59burst said:


> "a bit misleading..." really...? that's a stretch...
> 
> It says "Plug in and play on SSD"... that's pretty specific on the "instantly" front...



Read my post. It’s the part in bold that’s misleading, which Spitfire themselves agree with me on if you read the posts above!


----------



## Tilt & Flow

Noeticus said:


> Will it be discounted just enough to equal what the sale price is now?


He said “return to its promo price” so I would assume same price as now during sale period.


----------



## KEM

barteredbride said:


> @christianhenson please tell us there will be a Cubase version!!



In our dreams...


----------



## David Gosnell

Daniel James said:


> No worries mate. Ok in that case for Luke. I will repost the question here so that it doesnt get buried too quick.
> 
> Sorry for extra questions but your post confused me a touch on a few things.
> 
> So if Andy's video is 39 tracks but only 8 instances does that mean all we have to do to use different instruments/sections in a single instance is point a bunch of empty midi channel to it like one would in a Kontakt multi? OR do you have to do some keyswitch trickery in order to only have 8 instances spread over multiple tracks? And if the latter is true and you _have_ to essentially set up a template in order to use all of the sounds in fewer instances of the player what would Andy's memory footprint have looked like if he would have used one instance of the player per track (39 instances of Spitfire player) would the memory usage be about the same or would it be far greater? And the same question for CPU usage.
> 
> Also is the player split into multiple section versions IE one player for strings, one for brass, one for perc etc or is _everything _loaded into the same sampler? and IF all sounds come from the same player how would you set up say, all strings longs, in a timely manner? are there presets built in that will build a 'multi' of all the longs for strings so all I have to do is load that then point midi at it? or would I have to set up special keyswitches and routing everytime I used the plugin in order to use more than one section/instrument at a time?
> 
> I apologise if this has been covered already. Its very possible if it has, I missed it among the mammoth size of this thread
> 
> -DJ


My interpretation of the earlier SF response was that Andy wrote the demo in DP and the whole project required 33GB Ram. I assumed they exported the midi and stems into logic and just picked 8 instances to set up for us to watch, and changed Andy’s custom key switches for those 8 instances into something that worked in Logic with the ‘factory key switch settings’ for the SF player - just to show how Andy was using the different articulations - as an illustration. Still an assumption, but I’m assuming that what we were listening to was Andy’s stems (maybe even just the final mix?) - and those 8 instances were just there for illustration and not connected to the main out.

At least, that’s how I think I’d have done it in the same circumstances for a big launch event - saves time setting it up and reduces the risk of something glitching or crashing during playback. We see pretty midi data and hear lovely sounds - the audio part is ‘off screen’ 🤷‍♂️


----------



## dzilizzi

SpitfireSupport said:


> Sorry for the barrage - just one more thing. People have discussed Black Friday and Christmas wishlist earlier in the thread and I wanted to let you know that we’ve reworded one of the FAQs because it wasn’t quite accurate. BBC SO will return to its promo price during Black Friday and Christmas wishlist but will not be discounted to the same extent as older libraries. Ben


That was probably me. I'm expecting to wait at least a year on this and more likely a year from this Christmas wishlist. No worries. 

As a hobbyist, I have time on my side. Though I am really looking forward to eventually buying this. Unless, of course, I will the lottery between now and November.....


----------



## dzilizzi

jamwerks said:


> Kudos to SF for providing midi files and templates. Strange imo to favor one daw over the others though.


Unfortunately, it is probably the only DAW Christian works in. Hopefully others with different DAWs will share theirs. I do wish Logic could be run in Windows.


----------



## Noeticus

dzilizzi said:


> Unfortunately, it is probably the only DAW Christian works in. Hopefully others with different DAWs will share theirs. * I do wish Logic could be run in Windows.*



I wish that Logic ran in Windows as well.


----------



## Geoff Grace

Noeticus said:


> I wish that Logic ran in Windows as well.


Of course, once upon a time it did. Atari too.

That said, the cost of Logic back then—along with all of the goodies that now are part of the program—cost roughly what Logic Pro X and an entry level Mac do today, so the new equation isn't all bad. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Zero&One

SpitfireSupport said:


> BBC SO will return to its promo price during Black Friday and Christmas wishlist but will not be discounted to the same extent as older libraries. Ben



I'll refrain making any comment on that "change". What's that song by The Who?


----------



## bvaughn0402

I debated this library, especially before a walk through. But this idea of sharing templates and MIDI files was the seller for me. It may seem trivial, but to me it was a huge selling point.


----------



## jamwerks

Everybody has a different way to set things up & work especially regarding articulations. What's the value in getting a template belonging to someone else?


----------



## Jdiggity1

jamwerks said:


> Everybody has a different way to set things up & work especially regarding articulations. What's the value in getting a template belonging to someone else?


We composers are riddled with self-doubt in almost everything we do. So much so that we'll put more confidence into something said by a random person on the internet than our own thoughts on the subject.


----------



## Saxer

I often work in collaborations. It's no fun with Kontakt, even if both parties own the same sample libraries. Kontakt asks for each and every instance and patch where the samples are when you get a song from elsewhere. It's done by a simple "Search Spotlight" click but it's a click for every loaded patch. No problem with all other samplers like VSL, Falcon, and the Spitfire player, as long as the libraries are installed on the target system too. So yes, a compatible one package orchestra library with no extra template building time is a big plus.

Every collaborator knows this discussions... "Do you have LASS? - Yes, but only LASS light. - Ok, I have the Full 2.5 version, that doesn't load. What about VSL Special Edition? - Yes I have it but not the extended plus version. - Great, I don't have that too. Do you have the VSL Player *PRO*? - No. - Damn, that wouldn't load then. - Dimension Strings? - Yes, but needs the pro player too... - Oh, ok. What about CSS? - Yes, I have that too! - _days later..._ Why doesn't it load here? - Kontakt 5 - No, I saved it in Kontakt 6. - Ah, that's why... can't you make an update? - Yes, but waiting for the discount date... what about Cinebrass? - Yeah! - Pro? - No, core only...


----------



## Ashermusic

Saxer said:


> I often work in collaborations. It's no fun with Kontakt, even if both parties own the same sample libraries. Kontakt asks for each and every instance and patch where the samples are when you get a song from elsewhere. It's done by a simple "Search Spotlight" click but it's a click for every loaded patch. No problem with all other samplers like VSL, Falcon, and the Spitfire player, as long as the libraries are installed on the target system too. So yes, a compatible one package orchestra library with no extra template building time is a big plus.
> 
> Every collaborator knows this discussions... "Do you have LASS? - Yes, but only LASS light. - Ok, I have the Full 2.5 version, that doesn't load. What about VSL Special Edition? - Yes I have it but not the extended plus version. - Great, I don't have that too. Do you have the VSL Player *PRO*? - No. - Damn, that wouldn't load then. - Dimension Strings? - Yes, but needs the pro player too... - Oh, ok. What about CSS? - Yes, I have that too! - _days later..._ Why doesn't it load here? - Kontakt 5 - No, I saved it in Kontakt 6. - Ah, that's why... can't you make an update? - Yes, but waiting for the discount date... what about Cinebrass? - Yeah! - Pro? - No, core only...



Exactly!


----------



## bvaughn0402

jamwerks said:


> Everybody has a different way to set things up & work especially regarding articulations. What's the value in getting a template belonging to someone else?



Mostly education ... sometimes it's nice to see how people set things up. Especially with people who make money in the industry.

Some of it probably laziness too ... :D


----------



## dzilizzi

Well, as a newbie and hobbyist, any time I can see midi and the related modulation stuff, it helps with my understanding of how to work with VI's. I learn a lot from it.


----------



## NYC Composer

Forced to work with someone else’s template rather than tediously setting up my own over days-jeez. Sounds like hell on earth.

OR -start with that one and modify it over an hour or two. Torture!


----------



## Geoff Grace

And of course, anyone who does this full-time probably has developed a template worth looking at. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## yellowtone

jamwerks said:


> Everybody has a different way to set things up & work especially regarding articulations. What's the value in getting a template belonging to someone else?


 One huge benefit is for people like me who are new to VI. I downloaded the template last night and while I definitely don’t understand 80% of what it does yet, I learned a lot just by seeing how it’s setup. Will I likely make alterations in the future once I learn to use it, of course. But it’s a great learning tool.


----------



## AndyP

If SF does not have a template for Cubase, or VEP, or ... or will offer, then we have to build one ourselves.

It would be interesting to rebuild the Logic Template 1:1.
Unfortunately I don't have a Logic ...


----------



## Francis Bourre

If Spitfire doesn't provide Cubase and VEP templates, it means as well they will only share Logic BBCSO projects/resources in the future. Sounds strange to me, as an effort of education and opening to the media composers community. Logic is not even a crossplatform software.


----------



## AndyP

Francis Bourre said:


> If Spitfire doesn't provide Cubase and VEP templates, it means as well they will only share Logic BBCSO projects/resources in the future. Sounds strange to me, as an effort of education and opening to the media composers community. Logic is not even a crossplatform software.


Lots of question marks with this BBCSO ...


----------



## Alex Fraser

To be fair, CH mentioned in the video that no-one at Spitfire really uses DAW software other than Logic. 

That, and we’re talking about a freebie here..


----------



## EvilDragon

Alex Fraser said:


> To be fair, CH mentioned in the video that no-one at Spitfire really uses DAW software other than Logic.



Except Andy Blaney uses DP and Blake Robinson uses FL Studio


----------



## jamwerks

Alex Fraser said:


> To be fair, CH mentioned in the video that no-one at Spitfire really uses DAW software other than Logic.
> 
> That, and we’re talking about a freebie here..


Doesn't Andy B use DP? I would have thought they'd purposely hire people coming from all the big 5 or 6 daws. The world over Logic is what 15-25% of users?


----------



## mistermister

Alex Fraser said:


> That, and we’re talking about a freebie here..


A freebie based on the sharing/community aspect that is quite clearly, based on feedback here, factoring into people's decision to buy into the BBCSO.


----------



## constaneum

jamwerks said:


> Doesn't Andy B use DP? I would have thought they'd purposely hire people coming from all the big 5 or 6 daws. The world over Logic is what 15-25% of users?



so FL Studio isn't one of the big 5/6? I ever recalled someone told me before that FL Studio isn't suitable for orchestra work and advised me to move to other softwares....hmmmm....However, i ignored and keep on using FL Studio happily ever after.


----------



## Guffy

Alex Fraser said:


> To be fair, CH mentioned in the video that no-one at Spitfire really uses DAW software other than Logic.
> 
> That, and we’re talking about a freebie here..


.. or atleast that no one is a wizard at it, to his knowledge.

I know of at least one guy there using Cubase. He's done some nifty John Williams mockups


----------



## Alex Fraser

Guffy said:


> .. or atleast that no one is a wizard at it, to his knowledge.
> 
> I know of at least one guy there using Cubase. He's done some nifty John Williams mockups


Yes, thanks for clarifying the quote. (no sarcasm!)


----------



## Alex Fraser

mistermister said:


> A freebie based on the sharing/community aspect that is quite clearly, based on feedback here, factoring into people's decision to buy into the BBCSO.


Sure, but it's just a template - and one that's designed around a workflow that won't suit everyone. I had a play with it but will probably end up creating my own. Not a criticism at all, just a preference thing and I'm glad to have seen it.

I think the sharing/comminuty angle comes from the idea that the library is "all in" - every voice of the orchestra in one plugin. You won't need a particular template or setup in order to share stuff. Just the one plugin and a matching DAW. (Or midi files and a lot of patience..)

Perhaps Spitfire could create an online portal where we can share and upload templates, articulation maps, projects etc. Perhaps it's even incoming..

A


----------



## mistermister

Alex Fraser said:


> Sure, but it's just a template - and one that's designed around a workflow that won't suit everyone. I had a play with it but will probably end up creating my own. Not a criticism at all, just a preference thing and I'm glad to have seen it.


I completely agree - it's interesting to open and look at and might give some ideas. I'll be using it as more of a case study and a glimpse into the workflow of two professionals.


----------



## christianhenson

Hi there, The reason we're favouring Logic is Spitfire is largely a Logic company so we have little to no expertise with Cubase, DP et al. Its important for me that whenever Spitfire does anything it does it with a fighting chance of being top of the game, so not doing it for other DAWs is simply an admission of knowledge and experience deficiency with those technologies. 

I haven't got my logic chops from reading the manual I've got them from 20 years of working at the sweaty coalface, but also the rarest of things; Spitfire has meant I have got to watch and understand other composers Logic chops and needs. So I'm bringing that with Jake's very particular approach to stemming based on his huge biography of work. So my answer to us doing Cubase versions is "what right do we have? We have no experience with that platform".

We're all super Pro Tools ninjas but not as a sequencer so again could bring our bussing and routing chops to that table but not best case uses as a sequencing engine. The rare opportunity that BBCSO gives us is the ability to share, so I do hope people jump on that opportunity, even if they want to monetise it, we'll be all for it and support people being rewarded for the time and effort they put into making our lives just that bit more enlightened. I've always said "wouldn't it be great if BBCSO created new youtube stars" because of this ability to collaboratively learn together. Rick Beato has shown us there is a huge hunger for seriously deep analysis and investigation for example, so I hope people take what I think is a great opportunity to bring all of our orchestration chops on a notch.

Thanks for all the kind words on this thread. This has been a huge labour of love and beyond anything we have done scale-wise. We just can't wait to get it to you so you can see what an orchestra sample-set sounds like when it is people who have worked together, sitting at the same desks week in week out year after year. 

A very special sound.

C. x


----------



## christianhenson

Alex Fraser said:


> Sure, but it's just a template - and one that's designed around a workflow that won't suit everyone. I had a play with it but will probably end up creating my own. Not a criticism at all, just a preference thing and I'm glad to have seen it.
> 
> I think the sharing/comminuty angle comes from the idea that the library is "all in" - every voice of the orchestra in one plugin. You won't need a particular template or setup in order to share stuff. Just the one plugin and a matching DAW. (Or midi files and a lot of patience..)
> 
> Perhaps Spitfire could create an online portal where we can share and upload templates, articulation maps, projects etc. Perhaps it's even incoming..
> 
> A



Yes, one thing that is handy is you have a Logic template to suck huge amounts of preloaded instruments in from.


----------



## Alex Fraser

christianhenson said:


> Yes, one thing that is handy is you have a Logic template to suck huge amounts of preloaded instruments in from.


You mean importing from the mega template? I didn't think of that. That would be very useful. I doff my hat. A


----------



## Alex Fraser

mistermister said:


> I completely agree - it's interesting to open and look at and might give some ideas. I'll be using it as more of a case study and a glimpse into the workflow of two professionals.


Yep, I agree and will be watching the development of the template with interest. Fun times ahead.

Now, it's time I stopped procrastinating here (fast becoming my favourite place on the 'net to do so) and get on with some actual work stuff!


----------



## Garry

*Spitfire*: Here, we've created a template that will make it easier to load our new software, coming shortly. It's free to use - let us know your thoughts, and we'll try to improve it to suit the community better, based on your feedback. We're even getting input from Apple too - exciting eh? Many of you had asked for something along these lines (sharing MIDI files/templates), and we've gone much further. We hope you're as excited as us.

*VI-C #1*: _[adopt whiney-ass voice for effect]: _Huh, can't believe that free thing they're giving away can't be used by absolutely everyone. How short-sighted! Yeah - Apple fanboys! Capitalists!

*Spitfire*: Oh, sorry, it's just that we're not Cubase experts, but since we're making this free of charge, we'd be happy for someone to create a version in Reaper or Cubase, and even make money from it, and will support you the best way we can. 

*VI-C #2: *Huh, I see they don't mention FL
VI-C *#3*: Yeah, and no multis/articulation maps _[insert favorite highly specific aspect of YOUR particular workflow] _in version 1.0 - what are they thinking?! Amateurs!

*Spitfire*: By the way, although this is developed with the intention to support our upcoming library, feel free to use it on any libraries you own. 

*VI-C* *#4: *Huh, can't believe they've released the template already, and we haven't even seen a walkthrough video yet.

*Spitfire*: er... did we mention it's free. You do know you don't HAVE to use this, right? It's just that we thought it might be helpful to many, though we appreciate, not everyone - sorry about that.

*Spitfire customer*: well, I think this is great: it allows us to share and collaborate across a common platform, avoiding the problems we typically run into when we try to do so. It solves a problem many of us experience.

*VI-C* *#5: *Fanboy!


----------



## Guffy

Seriously?

No Ejay templates?

Looks like i'll have to rethink this one..


----------



## redlester

Last night I began, just for fun and learning, to attempt to use this template as a starting point to build a template for the Spitfire Symphonic libraries.

Am using Kontakt multi's loaded with the individual articulations, all purged. Have only done the woodwind longs so far, and I expect it will max out before I can complete it, although am hoping dynamic plugin loading will help, but by far the most important thing is it's teaching me so much about all aspects of this stuff. I can't express how grateful I am for this, even if it just ends up as being the kick up the arse I need to sort things out my own way to suit my limitations.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

David Gosnell said:


> My interpretation of the earlier SF response was that Andy wrote the demo in DP and the whole project required 33GB Ram. I assumed they exported the midi and stems into logic and just picked 8 instances to set up for us to watch, and changed Andy’s custom key switches for those 8 instances into something that worked in Logic with the ‘factory key switch settings’ for the SF player - just to show how Andy was using the different articulations - as an illustration. Still an assumption, but I’m assuming that what we were listening to was Andy’s stems (maybe even just the final mix?) - and those 8 instances were just there for illustration and not connected to the main out.
> 
> At least, that’s how I think I’d have done it in the same circumstances for a big launch event - saves time setting it up and reduces the risk of something glitching or crashing during playback. We see pretty midi data and hear lovely sounds - the audio part is ‘off screen’ 🤷‍♂️


Pretty much this! Although we actually got Andy to send over his specific settings for these instances, so the keyswitches reflected are those that Andy set up. 

Luke


----------



## Alex Fraser

SpitfireSupport said:


> Although we actually got Andy to send over his specific settings for these instances..


Were they delivered to Spitfire on a USB stick placed on a velvet pillow, accompanied by a chorus of angels? I'd like to think so.


----------



## KEM

Wait a minute... there are people who don’t use Cubase? I thought we have to use whatever Hans uses?!


----------



## lumcas

I can't believe Spitfire template doesn't support SAW Studio. That's an inexcusable omission.


----------



## Jack Mills

KEM said:


> Wait a minute... there are people who don’t use Cubase? I thought we have to use whatever Hans uses?!


Why not? it's always better to follow the master. (Sarcasm)


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

jamwerks said:


> Everybody has a different way to set things up & work especially regarding articulations. What's the value in getting a template belonging to someone else?



For me, it's 100% pure laziness and procrastination on my part. It take a TON of time to build a template like this, including the FX busses, etc. This is a huge timesaver for me, and I'm very grateful for the offer.


----------



## 5Lives

Love this approach from Spitfire! Can’t wait to see some MIDI mockups they share for this as well - I could use the hands on education! Time to upgrade to a new Mac I think...


----------



## NoamL

@christianhenson I can tell this is a passion project for you and you're doing such a service to the VI community. As a suggestion, why not include the Bricasti M7 SDIRs for Space Designer? I believe the pack is legal freeware. It even includes the Mechanics Hall which JJ has mentioned at some point is one of his faves. Certainly it is a small step away from a "purely stock" Logic template (Spitfire would have to release a small video tutorial about where to unpack an SDIR to make it work, etc) but I think it's worth it, the impulses sound great and much better than Chromaverb IMO.

Other than that, I loaded up the template this morning and looked around. Very cool, very neat and organized, and I like the way the buses are nested inside the bus folder! I gotta learn how to do that... there's always 1 more thing to learn in LogicX isn't there?


----------



## Noeticus

christianhenson said:


> So my answer to us doing Cubase versions is "what right do we have? We have no experience with that platform".



I assume a company of your stature would simply hire someone who does have the expertise...???


----------



## VinRice

Noeticus said:


> I assume a company of your stature would simply hire someone who does have the expertise...???



I'm sure they could - how much are you willing to pay for a template?


----------



## EwigWanderer

VinRice said:


> I'm sure they could - how much are you willing to pay for a template?


I’m in the fence about getting this. I’m a hobbyist but I have done a few sountracks and get paid for them. Nowadays I have a day job and two under two years old baby’s so time for writing is unfortunately limited. I cannot afford to by Mac so I could use logic. I know Cubase so for me a template would be a lifesaver. I just want to load up a template and use my time writing and not trying to get different libraries to sound good. 

Would I pay for Cubase template? Hell no if logic users gets one for free!!!!!


----------



## zolhof

This thread now:


----------



## Noeticus

VinRice said:


> I'm sure they could - how much are you willing to pay for a template?



Shouldn't the question be, how much is Spitfire willing to pay?


----------



## Zedcars

Funny how they’d get less flack if they hadn’t done any templates. I would like a Cubase one, but I’m not going to complain. I’m happy they are doing the Logic one and I’m confident someone will make one for Cubase based on that.


----------



## EwigWanderer

Zedcars said:


> Funny how they’d get less flack if they hadn’t done any templates. I would like a Cubase one, but I’m not going to complain. I’m happy they are doing the Logic one and I’m confident someone will make one for Cubase based on that.


For that I might be willing to pay.


----------



## VinRice

Noeticus said:


> Shouldn't the question be, how much is Spitfire willing to pay?



Huh?

The point is, this template is a freebie from Christian, possible because of his implicit knowledge of Logic and his experience as a working composer. If Spitfire has to pay experts to produce a series of templates (can you imagine the whining if they didn't cover everybody's favourite) then it becomes a Spitfire product and the costs have to be accounted for, either by making the templates chargeable or increasing the cost of the associated library.

It's a freebie for educational purposes. Use it or don't use it but treat the gesture for the way it was intended for fuck's sake.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Zedcars said:


> Funny how they’d get less flack if they hadn’t done any templates. I would like a Cubase one, but I’m not going to complain. I’m happy they are doing the Logic one and I’m confident someone will make one for Cubase based on that.



LOL! Of course, the typical Lynch Mob's that you see here. SF offers a free template and is already getting in s++t because they excluded a certain demographic. Unreal.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Daniel James said:


> So the video we saw wasn't actually playing in real time from the sequencer (by that I mean not all of the tracks were playing back live)? It was an audio playback showing just a few of the instruments loaded for example....in which case we shouldn't expect it to be that smooth in our own DAWs? (I mean if it was why wouldn't you just run the sequence live, is my thought there).
> 
> Also that doesn't quite answer my question. Are we able to assign different instruments to different midi channels in a single instance and point empty midi channels at it so we can load less instances of the player? Or do we have to load an instance of the player per track? ....So for example in Andy's video, in the real world, would he have had 39 instances of the player (one per track)? and if so how does that affect performance compared to the, I guess smoke and mirrors video, showing performance of just 8 instances.
> 
> To me its still not clear if we can load fewer instances of the sampler and send multiple midi tracks to it like a Kontakt multi *or* if we need one player per track *or* if we can have fewer instances of the player but have to do some routing or keyswitch trickery + template to recall our set up.
> 
> I would like to hear an explanation from support directly if thats possible, I appreciate you referencing someone else's answer to this but I just wanted to get the clear answer from you guys directly if I can please
> 
> -DJ


Hey DJ - I'm pretty sure you'll be able to load whatever articulations you want into the (one) plugin and switch between them via midi channel. If you're talking about a full multi-timbral setup like Kontakt...I'm not sure.
A


----------



## zolhof

EwigWanderer said:


> For that I might be willing to pay.



I use @MarcusD 's icons all the time and he also offers a variety of templates for Cubase, very reasonably priced:








PoundSound


Professional Cubase pro templates, video tutorials and more. 👊




poundsound.co.uk





@SpitfireSupport maybe get in touch with Marcus and have something ready for launch?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Funny how they’d get less flack if they hadn’t done any templates. I would like a Cubase one, but I’m not going to complain. I’m happy they are doing the Logic one and I’m confident someone will make one for Cubase based on that.


Indeedy. Perhaps we should take a bit of collective responsibility instead of the usual VIC entitlement.
For my part, I'll be whipping up a "Low End Mac" Logic template for myself, complete with articulation ID mapping and will gladly share with the community.


----------



## VinRice

Having looked through the template it's interesting but nothing earth-shattering. There are no instrument tracks, you would have to add your own, it's simply a logical hierarchy of sub-groups and stems and automation groups that make sense from a mixing point of view.

It's useful to see how a ProTools-centric professional film music mixer likes to organise things and the naming convention is notable but I would simply keep it in mind when organising your own templates.

I wouldn't use it personally and I would organise thing differently in Cubase anyway because of that programs different organisational ethos. It's not specific to BBCSO or anything and each project will tend to have different stemming requirements anyway. 

Interesting but nothing to get your knickers in a twist about.


----------



## D Halgren

Noeticus said:


> Shouldn't the question be, how much is Spitfire willing to pay?





Daniel James said:


> Yeah thats what I am trying to figure out. They keep saying the video is 8 instances of the plugin but there are 39 tracks in the sequence. So do we have 8 instances and route the 39 tracks among them?
> 
> Is the video making it look like that is the performance you will get with the full orchestra when in reality its only the performance of 8 instances not 39....and in your own sequencer you will need to either load one instance per instrument or do some crazy routing and templates to recall settings.
> 
> Its just unclear at present what we are looking at, and what performance we will actually get. The video was clearly presented, and taken by most as, 'this is how smooth it will run with everything loaded' but I am starting to worry that the video was only showing the performance of 8 of the 39 instances.
> 
> Also if you CAN load multiple instruments per instance of the player, can you point to them with empty midi tracks, multitimbrally like a Kontakt multi? I saw in the video you can load and unload articulations as keyswitches, and it looks like you can include other instruments in that list, but they keep taking about that as 'keyswitches' but what, for example, would happen if I wanted _all_ articulations for all of my string sections? would I have to load all of them into one keyswitch setup, leading to most of the keyboard being used up keyswitches? In comparison to Kontakt where I would just load the 1st violins on channel 1 (with all articulations) cellos on channel 2 (with all articulations) French horns on channel 3 (with all articulations) etc etc.
> 
> I am just trying to get the clearest possible idea of what its actually going to be like to use, not the positive spin version.
> 
> -DJ


I think you could just load up HZ Strings or Whitacre and do some tests. It should be the same. Still, it is a bit odd that they haven't answered you about any of this yet.


----------



## Geocranium

For those users out there familiar with Github and version control, I think it would be neat if someone set up a public VI Control template repository, with templates for this library for every popular DAW. Users could clone, add, remove, make edits to their own versions, and push new "improved" versions to the repo.

Would be an interesting experiment, and if it worked, an easy way to set up a central hub for access to all the community's templates.


----------



## paulthomson

Hey just to clarify - no "positive spin" or indeed "smoke and mirrors" here DJ....!! simply that Andy uses VE Pro and DP. We don't use that in the studios at the office, we had very little time to create the midio as Andy wrote the piece in 48h a couple of days before the announcement - so as explained above by support, we picked 8 representative tracks and recreated them in Logic so you could see how he was keyswitching. Theres a more detailed version coming with everything recreated in Logic. I think support actually posted above the exact details of how much memory etc was loaded.

Thanks,
Paul


----------



## CT

I don't imagine I'll use this template as released, just because I prefer a much more stripped down approach that sticks as close to a written score as possible, but it's very useful to see how it's put together.

I'm also interested to see if they include a score editor template as I think Christian implied in the last video. That would be *extremely* welcome, given how I gave up on doing that myself due to sheer clumsiness, and I would be open to at least trying to fit that into my writing process again. 

The only thing I've ever wanted from an orchestral VI is to feel like I could sit down, write anything that came to mind out on paper, and be confident that I could then produce a mock-up with great sound and consistency, no missing articulations or instruments, and an absolute minimum of technical tweaking. No mixing and matching, no absurd experiments and calculations to get things to sound natural, yada yada yada. 

I am cautiously letting my hopes build that BBCSO is finally the answer for me. I already feel certain that SSO and its related AIR libraries are, but the lower price point here, the all-in-one plugin, and the BBC pedigree edge it out, for the moment.


----------



## MarcusD

Geocranium said:


> For those users out there familiar with Github and version control, I think it would be neat if someone set up a public VI Control template repository, with templates for this library for every popular DAW. Users could clone, add, remove, make edits to their own versions, and push new "improved" versions to the repo.
> 
> Would be an interesting experiment, and if it worked, an easy way to set up a central hub for access to all the community's templates.



This would be super awesome. However, from some of the conversations I've had with developers, you simply can't do this with certain samplers (i.e Kontakt) because of how sampler files get embedded into project files. Things can be pulled and its classed as re-distribution. There are ways around it but depends on the sampler. How this applies to other DAWS I don't know, purely speaking from a Cubase perspective. I'm assuming the new player for Spitfire does not suffer the same issue.


----------



## lp59burst

christianhenson said:


> Hi there, The reason we're favouring Logic is Spitfire is largely a Logic company so we have little to no expertise with Cubase, DP et al. Its important for me that whenever Spitfire does anything it does it with a fighting chance of being top of the game, so not doing it for other DAWs is simply an admission of knowledge and experience deficiency with those technologies.
> 
> I haven't got my logic chops from reading the manual I've got them from 20 years of working at the sweaty coalface, but also the rarest of things; Spitfire has meant I have got to watch and understand other composers Logic chops and needs. So I'm bringing that with Jake's very particular approach to stemming based on his huge biography of work. So my answer to us doing Cubase versions is "what right do we have? We have no experience with that platform".
> 
> We're all super Pro Tools ninjas but not as a sequencer so again could bring our bussing and routing chops to that table but not best case uses as a sequencing engine. The rare opportunity that BBCSO gives us is the ability to share, so I do hope people jump on that opportunity, even if they want to monetise it, we'll be all for it and support people being rewarded for the time and effort they put into making our lives just that bit more enlightened. I've always said "wouldn't it be great if BBCSO created new youtube stars" because of this ability to collaboratively learn together. Rick Beato has shown us there is a huge hunger for seriously deep analysis and investigation for example, so I hope people take what I think is a great opportunity to bring all of our orchestration chops on a notch.
> 
> Thanks for all the kind words on this thread. This has been a huge labour of love and beyond anything we have done scale-wise. We just can't wait to get it to you so you can see what an orchestra sample-set sounds like when it is people who have worked together, sitting at the same desks week in week out year after year.
> 
> A very special sound.
> 
> C. x


Great detailed response and I agree that if Spitfire puts their name on something it's expected to be top shelf.

Knowing ones limitations and accepting them while still welcoming advice and assistance from others who _*are*_ experts is one of the most valuable lessons I've learned in my life. I only wish I had been more receptive to that at a younger age when I knew everything... until life taught me that I didn't...

Cheers and welcome back to VI-C... you were missed.


----------



## paulthomson

SpitfireSupport said:


> Hi guys, just to address some of the comments in regards to the RAM usage in Andy's demo:
> 
> There's only 8 instances of the plugin loaded in the video, so the global RAM is reflecting this value rather than that of the whole project. The project came to a total of 33GB with the final mics loaded. These are a combination of a stereo mix, spill mics, as well as some balcony in places.
> 
> Andy uses Digital Performer and sets up his own custom keyswitches, so in transferring his project over to Logic we used 8 of his custom presets, these are the ones that we focus in on in the video.
> 
> Luke



Just to draw your attention to this ealier post about 3 pages back.

So in the keynote you can see the usage in that session (with just 8 "real" instances) was about 5.82 GB - and above as Luke says the actual DP/VEP project used 33GB with all the mics Andy used.


----------



## lp59burst

Noeticus said:


> Shouldn't the question be, how much is Spitfire willing to pay?


Why? As far as I can tell they don't need one... generally the person "in need" of a product or service is expected to pay for it, not the other way 'round.


----------



## Denkii

Since this is a whole orchestra in one package, wouldn't it be rather easy for a dev...anyone really...to create a template for Cubase (any other DAW) and sell it for a couple of bucks?
I won't blame them for coming up with a template for the system they are most comfortable with.
There are people out there who create generic templates for multiple purposes and I'm sure this would be picked up if the users communicated a need.


----------



## David Gosnell

SpitfireSupport said:


> Pretty much this! Although we actually got Andy to send over his specific settings for these instances, so the keyswitches reflected are those that Andy set up.
> 
> Luke


Yeah, that only occurred to me later that it wasn’t as simple as I said - Andy would metaphorically have to send you text instructions for the keyswitching as there is t really a way to export/import that kind of info. If only you shared a common platform for collaboration ... 🤔


----------



## David Gosnell

Daniel James said:


> Ok so that video was NOT representative of how the library will actually run with that project and all 39 of those tracks having their own player?
> 
> I understand what you are saying Paul but by 'positive spin' I mean that you show the video *as if *it is running live in the sequencer, but there are actually only 8 of the 39 tracks you show on screen running live correct? Meaning that the sequence you showed in your video is running considerably smoother than the *actual *project would. Thats also what I mean by smoke and mirrors, its never mentioned or hinted that what we saw was a totally stripped down version of that cue (system resource wise) but it is presented as if that is what the user will experience. The video is presented as if what we are seeing is what we are hearing, when in actual fact it isn't? (the sequence we are seeing isnt whats generating all of that audio) That's textbook smoke and mirrors
> 
> So again I am still not sure what the actual work flow was like. Did Andy in his project have midi channels pointing to a reduced amount of Spitfire players (over his VEPro) or did every track of the 39 on screen have to have its own instance?
> 
> Just to avoid what happend last time, these are genuine questions that I want to clear up before I do my walkthrough video upon release
> 
> -DJ


As my guessing has been OK so far, I figure the Spitfire player is a bit like an instance of Capsule. One midi channel but you can load a certain number (?) of keyswitchable articulations in to it. I guess by habit we would have one instrument per channel so there is the potential to write for tutti. Based on the template video, and if you have publishers who want short and long articulations separate or if you are like Christian and like to bus sends for pizz and spic separately, you could end up having 60+ instances on a classic trailer track? 

I think I’m a bit less worried about multi-timbral ala Kontakt as in VEP for Orchestra I only have one instrument per instance of Kontakt anyway - the issue is, what is the processor/RAM load of 80 instances of the Spitfire player. If it has a low footprint and you use VEP then you can probably still have a manageable project in Cubase?

On the subject of Cubase templates, free or otherwise, I guess the issue is - how much of an obstacle do they see adoption of the player as being, and how crucial is wide adoption of the player to their business plan for the future. Free templates for all widely used sequencers would be worth farming out to get made to make adoption of their concept easier for current Kontakt users if they think it will make early adoption more likely. Common ground for bussing etc., would also make collaboration easier. A version where everything is loaded into VEP wouldn’t hurt in that regard either?


----------



## dzilizzi

Isn't it the same player used for HZ Strings and EW Choir? I don't have either, but I would think it would work similar to the way they work as far as what you can load and what you can't. 

I do have it for the Lab stuff. But truthfully, I had most of the old labs in Kontakt, so I still use those. I do need to try it out soon though. Oh wait, I have probably a year and a half to wait. Sigh....


----------



## Geocranium

MarcusD said:


> This would be super awesome. However, from some of the conversations I've had with developers, you simply can't do this with certain samplers (i.e Kontakt) because of how sampler files get embedded into project files. Things can be pulled and its classed as re-distribution. There are ways around it but depends on the sampler. How this applies to other DAWS I don't know, purely speaking from a Cubase perspective. I'm assuming the new player for Spitfire does not suffer the same issue.



Yeah I figured there was some form of trickery with samplers like Kontakt, which is why I was thinking it would have to be for Spitfire's libraries, or at least other samplers that allow for the use of loading other peoples' projects.

If Spitfire can distribute a template others can freely download and use with no issue, then I don't see why it wouldn't also work as a communal repository.

Imagine a new composer comes to the forum, is recommended BCC orchestra as their first orchestral library purchase, and then gets to choose from an entire repository of templates created by professional composers for every DAW out there. What a cool intro experience to the world of composing with virtual instruments.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

I don't have Logic. But from the videos to me the overall routing look just like:
The template is grouping all instruments to a group channel, from there go sends to 2 reverbs and 3 FX tracks. Summing those all together to a stem. Summing all stems for the full mix output.
And sending all worthwhile tracks through a "print" track for audio recording.
Setting this overall channel routing up in a different DAW should be pretty easy. In principle my Cubase stuff appears to be almost identical, except the naming.

Of course the predefined reverb plugins need to be replaced.
The only thing making a lot of work is setting up all the different instrument tracks themselves, or better to select the articulations inside the Spitfire player for each instance, as can be seen in their latest template building video. It seems as if indeed every track has its own player instance.

It should be fairly straight forward in building the exact same thing in another DAW.


----------



## Garry

Daniel James said:


> Ok so that video was NOT representative of how the library will actually run with that project and all 39 of those tracks having their own player?
> 
> I understand what you are saying Paul but by 'positive spin' I mean that you show the video *as if *it is running live in the sequencer, but there are actually only 8 of the 39 tracks you show on screen running live correct? Meaning that the sequence you showed in your video is running considerably smoother than the *actual *project would. Thats also what I mean by smoke and mirrors, its never mentioned or hinted that what we saw was a totally stripped down version of that cue (system resource wise) but it is presented as if that is what the user will experience. The video is presented as if what we are seeing is what we are hearing, when in actual fact it isn't? (the sequence we are seeing isnt whats generating all of that audio) That's textbook smoke and mirrors
> 
> So again I am still not sure what the actual work flow was like. Did Andy in his project have midi channels pointing to a reduced amount of Spitfire players (over his VEPro) or did every track of the 39 on screen have to have its own instance?
> 
> Just to avoid what happend last time, these are genuine questions that I want to clear up before I do my walkthrough video upon release
> 
> -DJ



Have to say, with accusations of "positive spin" and "smoke and mirrors", it's a little hard to read this as anything other than one small time developer trying to gain attention (again), by running down the products & reputation of a larger one. I would be more inclined to give benefit of the doubt, but for 3 reasons: (i) this sort of language is deliberately incendiary, and not an innocent inquiry, (ii) this is not the first time (have we finally now decided free LABS isn't some evil plan after all?), but perhaps most galling and dripping in hypocrisy, (iii) in response to one of his own disgruntled customers regarding the lack of transparency over his own product, and the failure to produce walkthrough videos he had promised them, he spectacularly claims his lack of transparency is in fact a feature, not a bug:



Daniel James said:


> Sure I can put a few more videos together and a 3 week fancy marketing campaign promising the second coming of our lord and savior to drive more sales but I sort of like that it’s like a hidden secret weapon for those who have it ... Those who have it know its power, and right now I like the fact that those who have trusted in us have a secret weapon others don't
> 
> -DJ



So where's the customer trust now, or is that only meant to apply in one direction??!!

This was posted only this week, despite simultaneously calling out another developer for lack of transparency! A developer who hired the frickin' Barbican to provide insight into their product, and is still some six weeks from their release date!! Not 12 months after release, and still failing to provide a promised walkthrough, and then bragging about not doing so!!

Perhaps before you do a walkthrough of BBCSO, you might do the one you promised your customers?


----------



## rlw

barteredbride said:


> @christianhenson please tell us there will be a Cubase version!!


Jake, Thank you so much for your template. This is a great help


----------



## Jdiggity1

Garry said:


> Have to say, with accusations of "positive spin" and "smoke and mirrors", it's a little hard to read this as anything other than one small time developer trying to gain attention (again), by running down the products & reputation of a larger one. I would be more inclined to give benefit of the doubt, but for 3 reasons: (i) this sort of language is deliberately incendiary, and not an innocent inquiry, (ii) this is not the first time (have we finally now decided free LABS isn't some evil plan after all?), but perhaps most galling and dripping in hypocrisy, (iii) in response to one of his own disgruntled customers regarding the lack of transparency over his own product, and the failure to produce walkthrough videos he had promised them, he spectacularly claims his lack of transparency is in fact a feature, not a bug:
> 
> 
> 
> So where's the customer trust now, or is that only meant to apply in one direction??!!
> 
> This was posted only this week, despite simultaneously calling out another developer for lack of transparency! A developer who hired the frickin' Barbican to provide insight into their product, and is still some six weeks from their release date!! Not 12 months after release, and still failing to provide a promised walkthrough, and then bragging about not doing so!!
> 
> Perhaps before you do a walkthrough of BBCSO, you might do the one you promised your customers?


Let's not turn this thread into attacks.
I think everybody has worked out the answer to DJ's question on multi-timbral support in Spitfire's player, even though it hasn't specifically and directly been answered in this thread by a Spitfire rep (that I've seen).Though it would be nice if we didn't need to 'read between the lines' so much.


----------



## Geoff Grace

Deep breath. Relax...

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Alex Fraser

C’mon guys. This thread has been grump free for nearly 2k posts..


----------



## 5Lives

This thread is not customer support. This thread is not where all questions will be answered. This thread is not where Christian and Paul need to spend their time when they have many other things to do.

And yet, they and Spitfire support have graciously tried to answer some early questions while we all await the official walkthrough. I think some folks need to chill with the accusatory tones and entitled mindsets.


----------



## MarcusD

Geocranium said:


> Imagine a new composer comes to the forum, is recommended BCC orchestra as their first orchestral library purchase, and then gets to choose from an entire repository of templates created by professional composers for every DAW out there. What a cool intro experience to the world of composing with virtual instruments.



Totally! Wanted to be able to help provide such a thing for a while (for any dev), but held back purely because most libraries have revolved around Kontakt (which is a great piece of software) but the security of the libs and your personal watermark is put at risk in a project file. That being said Its nice to see devs creating their own samplers.

All in all its good for everyone! BBCSO sounds awesome, can't wait to see/hear more about the product. David Attenborough needs to narrate the next promotional video. lol


----------



## rlw

NoamL said:


> @christianhenson I can tell this is a passion project for you and you're doing such a service to the VI community. As a suggestion, why not include the Bricasti M7 SDIRs for Space Designer? I believe the pack is legal freeware. It even includes the Mechanics Hall which JJ has mentioned at some point is one of his faves. Certainly it is a small step away from a "purely stock" Logic template (Spitfire would have to release a small video tutorial about where to unpack an SDIR to make it work, etc) but I think it's worth it, the impulses sound great and much better than Chromaverb IMO.
> 
> I would very much love the SDIRs for Space Designer you mentioned. That would be a big win for me. I am also very excited about the template. Can't wait to add my VEP 7 instances. Because the HZ Strings did not let me add and subtract articulations, I chose to set up very sophisticated VEP Instances with multiple channels so that I could emulate the Multis like Kontakt. With VEP 7 I can now copy an instance from another project and this really helps after I have already setup Lemur automation with Articulations and ability to also automate all the Mic options in HZ Strings. This template will really help my workflow. Thank @Spitfire Team and @Jake for all this free work.


----------



## Garry

Daniel James said:


> ... its more I want to get a better understanding of the workflow of the engine.



No problem - ask away - we'll all benefit from respectful questioning - Spitfire included.

Just leave the "smoke and mirrors' accusations, because that's clearly not innocently asking questions, that's insinuating corrupt intent, with no basis, and that will be called out, because it's unnecessary and unhelpful.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I gotta admit, I’m kind of glad it turns out the Andy B track wasn’t running off just 6gig. I was wondering what corners Spifire would have had cut to get such a low footprint. 😎


----------



## Geoff Grace

I think if you want to load all mic positions, all instruments, and all articulations at once from a 600 GB library that you'd be looking at a very heavy performance hit.

On the other hand, the library could be workable on even an entry level system, as long as you're willing to only load what you need and freeze tracks along the way.

But Yeah, Andy's demo required 33 GB. If you hope to achieve similar results, then the path of least resistance would be to have more RAM than that on your system.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## 5Lives

Even if Andy's demo required a lot of RAM, you could still run it on a lower spec'd system using things like freeze. I don't see any malicious intent by the Spitfire folks.


----------



## Zero&One

5Lives said:


> Even if Andy's demo required a lot of RAM, you could still run it on a lower spec'd system using things like freeze. I don't see any malicious intent by the Spitfire folks.



But it would have been worth mentioning it surely? Or isn't performance a concern to people?


----------



## Geoff Grace

5Lives said:


> Even if Andy's demo required a lot of RAM, you could still run it on a lower spec'd system using things like freeze. I don't see any malicious intent by the Spitfire folks.


Sure you could. I used to get by with 32-bit DAWs that could only use 4 GB. I'd load one section at a time, track it, and move onto the next section. It was a slower process, but it worked.

And yes, I think Spitfire have done a good job so far in sharing details. I understand that it takes awhile to get all of the information out for a yet-to-be-released library, especially information that relates to the final product, as the product still isn't final.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## jamwerks

@Daniel James For the live launch show it's logical to do an audio stream and not a real-time playback. That's simply good business practice for that situation. The visual was a nice added touch.


----------



## AndyP

My answer to the many questions is: I will not order until I know all the facts.
This decision is not that difficult for me.

Whoever is familiar with SF and is well equipped in terms of hardware, maybe has one or more VEP servers, will probably not have to worry so much about whether the whole thing will run as well as it should.

It is more problematic for the people who have e.g. older computers that are possibly already scratching today at the limit.

There is still a lot of time until the pre sale ends, so I don't quite understand the sharpness of the discussions and questions.

If SF wants to play his game, they should play it. I only play when the conditions to participate in the game are the same for all players.


----------



## dzilizzi

Alex Fraser said:


> C’mon guys. This thread has been grump free for nearly 2k posts..


And there's been chocolate!


----------



## Zero&One

Daniel James said:


> I can't be the only one who thought it was being played back live...



No, I also thought that as well. As many in the live chat did.

I find it amusing people don't think stating "the next piece of music used 33GB RAM and most of what you'll hear isn't from the live plugin" wouldn't have had an impact on peoples reaction. Does every musician read this thread?


----------



## Geoff Grace

I don't know what people think, but I think it would have been helpful to have that information at the outset. 

Nonetheless, I give Spitfire the benefit of the doubt regarding their intent. They've released the information now, and that's the best that can be done at this stage.

Personally, my top concern is the sound, which I like very much. It's a redundant purchase for me, as I have a lot of orchestral libraries; but I'll probably buy it eventually. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Fleer

dzilizzi said:


> And there's been chocolate!


Yeah, there’s been chocolate. 
This is a quality street thread. 
Let’s indeed keep it grump free.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Geoff Grace said:


> It's a redundant purchase for me, as I have a lot of orchestral libraries; but I'll probably buy it eventually.


That’s peak Vi control, Geoff! Setting an example for us all. 😉


----------



## paulthomson

Never mind


----------



## Geoff Grace

paulthomson said:


> Never mind


That happens to me sometimes. I'll go into a room and I can't remember what I came there for.

Relax. Have some chocolate. Some of us have Quality Street.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Geoff Grace

...And some of us have Cadburys.

Just saying...

Best,

Geoff


----------



## jamwerks

I've been hoping for a SF orchestral library done on a scoring stage for a long time. I just wasn't expecting to get them all at once. They could have easily released 4 separate libraries but have gone with a novel approach. They must be confident that we're going to love the sound of the room and confident about the legato scripting and other features.

If it goes over well, we're all going to want the probable off-shoots of this (chamber strings, full percussion, added WW's and Brass).

I haven't even downloaded any of their Labs stuff so this will be my first SF player library. I use and love the Synchron percussion, so I know that getting used to a new Player will really take just a couple of hours.

The advent of the SF player is good for all involved. From a purely bussiness perspective they will now be copy protected, and those savings can be passed-on to us. NI had their hands tied when re-writing K6. Backward compatability probably kept them from doing lots of innovating. SF has been free to do a custom build here, so it will ultimately easily out-perform Kontakt by quite a margine, VIP & Synchron already do...


----------



## mikeh-375

Geoff Grace said:


> ...And some of us have Cadburys.
> 
> Just saying...
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff



you people and your cheap chocolates...jeez.....


----------



## Geoff Grace

One more (mostly) off topic post..

There's this Star Trek episode that's somewhat appropriate to overheated threads, called _Day of the Dove_. (No, not the chocolate kind.) Here's the last few minutes in case anyone is interested:



Live long and prosper,

Geoff


----------



## CT

Bear in mind that I might be crazy and not at all representative, but those of you who don't have experience with the Spitfire player, I have found it to be so much more enjoyable to work with than Kontakt....


----------



## Alex Fraser

Geoff Grace said:


> ...And some of us have Cadburys.
> 
> Just saying...
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


Paul strikes me as a Quality Street man..


----------



## christianhenson

Amazing thread chaps and chapesses! Its given me a great idea for a future vlog "How to use sample libraries on older computers" is there Volkswagon Golf of computers which would represent a fair specimen? I'll jump on ebay, to get one, load up BBCSO and give you my thoughts.

I suspect that I will show that the restrictions of a lesser spec'd computer can result in much better mix hygiene which we should all think about adopting?


----------



## Zero&One

miket said:


> Bear in mind that I might be crazy and not at all representative, but those of you who don't have experience with the Spitfire player, I have found it to be so much more enjoyable to work with than Kontakt....



I agree, it feels much more part of the project. Changing instruments and settings is really easy, and these new additions look to make it even better. 
Will HZ eventually have the same add/remove articulation anyone know?


----------



## Zero&One

christianhenson said:


> is there Volkswagon Golf of computers which would represent a fair specimen? I'll jump on ebay, to get one, load up BBCSO and give you my thoughts.



Old 2009 Mac Pro cheese grater


----------



## Zedcars

Geoff Grace said:


> One more (mostly) off topic post..
> 
> There's this Star Trek episode that's somewhat appropriate to overheated threads, called _Day of the Dove_. (No, not the chocolate kind.) Here's the last few minutes in case anyone is interested:
> 
> 
> 
> Live long and prosper,
> 
> Geoff



“Video unavailable”


----------



## Geoff Grace

James H said:


> Old 2009 Mac Pro cheese grater


I'd love to see Logic running on an Atari again! 

Okay, I realize that's too far back. Yeah, those old cheese graters should suffice. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Zedcars

Geoff Grace said:


> One more (mostly) off topic post..
> 
> There's this Star Trek episode that's somewhat appropriate to overheated threads, called _Day of the Dove_. (No, not the chocolate kind.) Here's the last few minutes in case anyone is interested:
> 
> 
> 
> Live long and prosper,
> 
> Geoff






Zedcars said:


> “Video unavailable”


I found a loophole, and jumped through it. Thanks for sharing - love the original series!


----------



## Geoff Grace

Zedcars said:


> “Video unavailable”


I suppose you need a VPN to fool the server into thinking you're in the US.

Here's a plot summary:





__





Day of the Dove - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Edit: Glad to see you found a loophole. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Zero&One

I think it would be a good candidate as they have been the staple of music production for years. Even mac haters agree it was a good machine.
It's the 10 year anniversary. You can still pick them up on fleaBay. Very affordable purchase for someone on a budget. Simple for CH to slap in the new template.


----------



## Zedcars

Geoff Grace said:


> I'd love to see Logic running on an Atari again!
> 
> Okay, I realize that's too far back. Yeah, those old cheese graters should suffice.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


Those Atari’s had rock solid MIDI timing. I bet there are people still using them for that very reason.

The old cheese graters were a great design. Still have my Quad. It still works but it’s unfortunately just become a table. Very occasionally I’ll fire it up to do something with old software. I’m lusting after the new Mac Pros but they’re a bit out of my price range.


----------



## Zedcars

(P.S. I wonder if we are getting close to the longest thread in the known universe?)


----------



## Sovereign

Zedcars said:


> (P.S. I wonder if we are getting close to the longest thread in the known universe?)


No, Synchron Strings thread had 160 pages.


----------



## Zedcars

Sovereign said:


> No, Synchron Strings thread had 160 pages.


Dang it. Well, I think when a library generates some negative opinions, which that one did, it tends to generate more comments than something which is more positively received. So far people seem pretty positive about the BBCSO library, although obviously it’s early days.


----------



## Geoff Grace

One possible hitch: can a 2009 Mac Pro run a macOS that's compatible with the current Spitfire Player and Logic Pro X?

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Francis Bourre

christianhenson said:


> Amazing thread chaps and chapesses! Its given me a great idea for a future vlog "How to use sample libraries on older computers" is there Volkswagon Golf of computers which would represent a fair specimen? I'll jump on ebay, to get one, load up BBCSO and give you my thoughts.
> 
> I suspect that I will show that the restrictions of a lesser spec'd computer can result in much better mix hygiene which we should all think about adopting?


I guess, because it's how it's mentioned on the product page, it could be a good candidate:
*Recommended: 2.8GHz I7 (six-core), 16GB RAM*


----------



## Zero&One

Geoff Grace said:


> One possible hitch: can a 2009 Mac Pro run a macOS that's compatible with the current Spitfire Player and Logic Pro X?



It would need the firmware upgrade tweak 5,1 Many available second hand would have done this already.
But yeah, as you say out of the box I'm not sure


----------



## Alex Fraser

christianhenson said:


> Amazing thread chaps and chapesses! Its given me a great idea for a future vlog "How to use sample libraries on older computers" is there Volkswagon Golf of computers which would represent a fair specimen? I'll jump on ebay, to get one, load up BBCSO and give you my thoughts.
> 
> I suspect that I will show that the restrictions of a lesser spec'd computer can result in much better mix hygiene which we should all think about adopting?


Great idea. I have some (bitter) experience in that regard - I'm still rolling a 2011 iMac with 20mb as my daily driver, which falls *just* short of your minimum specs for BBCSO. Nico from support does assure me that it'll run though..

If we're talking Logic, then dynamic plugin loading is going to be the way forward for a low end Mac, coupled with manually turning tracks on and off. It might be cheating somewhat for the experiment, but whacking an SSD out the back to load samples makes all the difference.

Also, the forum needs to know if you're a Quality Street man or a Cadbury's man. Get the answer right and I'll 'prime a tin to the team at Spitfire HQ..


----------



## Zedcars

Geoff Grace said:


> One possible hitch: can a 2009 Mac Pro run a macOS that's compatible with the current Spitfire Player and Logic Pro X?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


Officially no. The minimum OS for Logic X is macOS 10.13.6, and the 2009 Mac Pro’s only go up to 10.11. However, it is apparently possible to install 10.14 on an old unsupported Mac through some jiggery pokery:



The other ways would be to use Virtualisation software, or an older version of Logic. No idea if any of that would work in practice though.


----------



## Saxer

christianhenson said:


> "How to use sample libraries on older computers" is there Volkswagon Golf of computers which would represent a fair specimen?


MacBook Pro i7 Quadcore with 16 GB or a comparable PC Laptop would be interesting as a lot of those machines are in use for composing on the go. I think they are around since 2012 and still an average mobile configuration. They can use current operating systems. And their specs are comparable to iMacs and smaller studio PCs.


----------



## JEPA

yellowtone said:


> I downloaded the template last night


where to download?


----------



## Zedcars

Logic template link:








CH JJ Template 1.8 Stripped.logicx.zip


1 file sent via WeTransfer, the simplest way to send your files around the world




we.tl


----------



## JEPA

Zedcars said:


> Logic template link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CH JJ Template 1.8 Stripped.logicx.zip
> 
> 
> 1 file sent via WeTransfer, the simplest way to send your files around the world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we.tl


THXXXXXX


----------



## rudi

Geoff Grace said:


> One more (mostly) off topic post..
> 
> There's this Star Trek episode that's somewhat appropriate to overheated threads, called _Day of the Dove_. (No, not the chocolate kind.) Here's the last few minutes in case anyone is interested:
> 
> 
> 
> Live long and prosper,
> 
> Geoff



The best video about Brexit I have come across so far


----------



## christianhenson

Sorry to stalk you all but I answer some more questions here.... oh and if any of you are in LA on the 22nd?


----------



## TeamLeader

christianhenson said:


> Sorry to stalk you all but I answer some more questions here.... oh and if any of you are in LA on the 22nd?




Love UACC here Chrisitian. Do NOT want ind arts per track. Hate that. I can live with regular key switches but much prefer UACC!


----------



## ed buller

Hi Christian


i'll be in LA ( live here) i've signed up for the walk. Would love separate Articulations per track. John Powell has shown me the way !!!

best


ed


----------



## kgdrum

christianhenson said:


> Amazing thread chaps and chapesses! Its given me a great idea for a future vlog "How to use sample libraries on older computers" is there Volkswagon Golf of computers which would represent a fair specimen? I'll jump on ebay, to get one, load up BBCSO and give you my thoughts.
> 
> I suspect that I will show that the restrictions of a lesser spec'd computer can result in much better mix hygiene which we should all think about adopting?





My vote is a 2010-12 Mac Pro
Cheese-grater


----------



## Zedcars

Talking about running this on an older system, I came across this Emagic Notator tutorial. Takes me back to my GCSE Music days. Seems rather quaint now doesn’t it?!


----------



## Ashermusic

Zedcars said:


> Talking about running this on an older system, I came across this Emagic Notator tutorial. Takes me back to my GCSE Music days. Seems rather quaint now doesn’t it?!





Love it. Notator is where I began. I was the first composer in LA to use it both for MIDI and printing out parts for real players when I did the music for "Zorro."


----------



## AllanH

I would prefer something like the “Total Performance” Legato patch in the Virtuoso Solo Strings. The intelligent scripting lets me use this single patch in lieu of many individual articulations. I'm currently doing a mix of Cubase expression maps and individual tracks.


----------



## Saxer

Articulations:
I love the Performance Legato patches on an extra track for 70% of the music.
Everything else on a second track via Logic Articulation Set.

If there are no "Performance" patches: one track for longs/legatos and one track for shorts/one shots. Also switching by Logic's Articulation Set.


----------



## CT

Alex Fraser said:


> Nico from support does assure me that it'll run though..



It was the same situation for me with the choir, which had the same minimum specs initially. Sandy felt confident it would work for me (2.5 i5), and I've never had an issue. The tempo-synced patches drive the CPU up a bit. The specs listed on the site have since become more relaxed.


----------



## Alex Fraser

miket said:


> It was the same situation for me with the choir, which had the same minimum specs initially. Sandy felt confident it would work for me (2.5 i5), and I've never had an issue. The tempo-synced patches drive the CPU up a bit. The specs listed on the site have since become more relaxed.


Ah, wicked. Cheers Miket. I expect to remain in single mic purgatory until upgrading the Mac next year. Hopefully, those Jake Jackson mixes will do the trick.


----------



## babylonwaves

TeamLeader said:


> Love UACC here Chrisitian. Do NOT want ind arts per track. Hate that. I can live with regular key switches but much prefer UACC!


unless this will change, the SF player cant handle UACC. at least that's true for e.g. the Hans Zimmer strings. instead key switches are being used for articulation control.


----------



## D Halgren

100


----------



## VinRice

So close...


----------



## cqd

Ahem..


----------



## EwigWanderer

If this goes to 100 I just might buy this library.


----------



## mcalis

@EwigWanderer now you're just asking for it...

EDIT: after the 100th page the new milestone will be the 2000th posts, only 33 to go... I have faith in you all xD


----------



## Iskra

Are we there yet?


----------



## hawpri

EwigWanderer said:


> If this goes to 100 I just might buy this library.


For an instant I thought this was in reference to a distant-future sale price. That would have to be a few good Black Fridays from now.


----------



## lp59burst

Zedcars said:


> We have a winner! Congratulations, you have one absolutely nothing except the admiration of your fellow composers.


Hmm... well, actually... if you're "ignoring" anyone then maybe you're not quite yet to 100...


----------



## Karma

100


----------



## artomatic

Geoff Grace said:


> One possible hitch: can a 2009 Mac Pro run a macOS that's compatible with the current Spitfire Player and Logic Pro X?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff





I'm running my VEP slave, a 2009 Mac Pro with High Sierra. I suppose it's upgradable to Mojave.


----------



## Michael Antrum

artomatic said:


> I'm running my VEP slave, a 2009 Mac Pro with High Sierra. I suppose it's upgradable to Mojave.



It is. I have a Mac Pro 2009. I stuck a pair of 3.46 Ghz 6 core Xeons in it, 64gb from eBay and an RX580 GPU. I flashed it to a 5,1 and its running Mojave like a champ.

I stuck a couple of dual SATA III PCI cards in it with 4 x Crucial 2tB SSD's, and its pretty damn powerful VEPro slave.


----------



## ridgero

I think I can‘t resist to buy 

Btw, whats the point about spamming around here? nice... and you people wonder why someone doesn‘t „read“ the whole thread.

Create your own thread in the offtopic sub.


----------



## Leslie Fuller

christianhenson said:


> Sorry to stalk you all but I answer some more questions here.... oh and if any of you are in LA on the 22nd?




Hey Christian, has Daniel James signed up for your walk by any chance? I’m sure you’d have some interesting discussions!
How about another in the Creative Cribs series with DJ?


----------



## 5Lives

This is a nice offer from Christian but I don’t understand this mass interest in running a brand new piece of software on a nearly 10 year old machine. What are people expecting? This library will outlast your computer unless you just stubbornly refuse to upgrade and keep up with the hardware advancements. I’d rather see how this performs on something like a recent i7 laptop with 16GB of RAM as that feels more realistic and representative of the next couple of years out for a minimally spec’d machine.


----------



## AllanH

I'm with @5Lives on this: If I can load key articulations from all sections and keep it under 16GB of instrument-RAM with the JJ mix, I'd consider that more than acceptable. It will be interesting to see how deep the realtime optimizations go (memory, CPU, multi-processing/threading, etc.).


----------



## Digivolt

+1 for an i7 and 16gig of ram for a bench test


----------



## kgdrum

5Lives said:


> This is a nice offer from Christian but I don’t understand this mass interest in running a brand new piece of software on a nearly 10 year old machine. What are people expecting? This library will outlast your computer unless you just stubbornly refuse to upgrade and keep up with the hardware advancements. I’d rather see how this performs on something like a recent i7 laptop with 16GB of RAM as that feels more realistic and representative of the next couple of years out for a minimally spec’d machine.




The unfortunate reality for many users, myself included is many of us don't have the newest rigs don't use VEP with multiple slave machines etc.....
The only music we've heard was rendered down and the individual tracks were not actually played live during the demo IIRC.
IMO whether this test is performed on a MPro cheese-grater(which many people still use) or a i7 laptop w/16gig ram both will give users a better sense of the real demands of this gorgeous new release.
As a user and a potential buyer,I want to know what kind of setup it will really take to work with BBCSO.
IMO the real world *minimum requirements* to use BBCSO will benefit more potential buyers.


----------



## CT

Exactly. Obviously we all get new machines when we're able, but it's still useful to know if something will work with what we have now. For some, that means a more current specification, for others, it's something more dated. I don't see the harm in trying out both, if it's not too much of a hassle.


----------



## Geoff Grace

I also have a quad core i7 laptop with 16 GB RAM, so I'd be happy to see *Christian* go with that spec. In fact, unless he got rid of his old MacBook Pro, I think he already has a machine that fits that description.

Alas, my 2008 Mac Pro cheese grater isn't as upgradable as the 2009 model...

Best,

Geoff


----------



## babylonwaves

kgdrum said:


> As a user and a potential buyer,I want to know what kind of setup it will really take to work with BBCSO.


look at how the hans zimmer strings perform. if you switch on a couple of mics, it _is_ getting expensive because the voice count increases, obviously. if you're happy with a stereo mix, you can instantiate a lot of players without a performance penalty. but you need ram for all that. so, looking at the specs in your sig, i don't think that 32gb will do for an entire orchestra of that kind. also, the HZ Strings edition of the SF payer doesn't purge (but you can load smaller section presets). maybe that will have changed for the BBC player to help to bring the RAM requirements down. btw: i've never benchmarked the I/O performance of the SF player against Kontakt but it feels similar.


----------



## emasters

Similar perspective here -- having an older class machine, one wonders to what extent BBCSO will actually be usable. Kepler was a bit of a surprise given the heavy resource demands. With a moderate system running an older CPU, is it one track at a time, freeze, on to the next?


----------



## Noeticus

Just a clarification... I was just suggesting earlier that if Spitfire had paid someone to create a Logic Template as perhaps an incentive to increase sales of their Spitfire BBC Orchestra, then perhaps they could pay someone else to create other DAW Templates.


----------



## rlw

TeamLeader said:


> Love UACC here Chrisitian. Do NOT want ind arts per track. Hate that. I can live with regular key switches but much prefer UACC!




I agree, I like UACC, it was a little more difficult to achieve with HZ Strings because I wanted only 1 UACC for each articulation. But for my workflow I prefer the UACC rather than key Switches.


----------



## kgdrum

babylonwaves said:


> looking at the specs in your sig, i don't think that 32gb will do for an entire orchestra of that kind. also, the HZ Strings edition of the SF payer doesn't purge (but you can load smaller section presets). maybe that will have changed for the BBC player to help to bring the RAM requirements down. btw: i've never benchmarked the I/O performance of the SF player against Kontakt but it feels similar.




Honestly I totally expect the real demands to use BBCSO far exceeds my rig as well as many other users current setups(16gig i7 laptops)included.
When I first saw the stream before spec requirements were released I immediately assumed a user would need a VEP master/slave setup or a crazy new(next MacPro or a PC equivalent)maxed out rig.
Then the minimum specs were published, my 1st reaction was how could this be possible?
Yeah a user can use any library a section at a time, render to audio and continue step by step but who really wants to work that way.
That's why I'd love to see what a modest rig can actually handle.
I have numerous Spitfire libraries but I haven't used any Spitfire non-Kontakt releases yet so I'm curious to understand the limitations of Spitfires new player.
Unfortunately from my perspective the new free lab minis will not give me any real sense of how working w/BBCSO would be on my modest rig.


----------



## Fleer

Like it’s 1999.


----------



## ridgero

kgdrum said:


> Honestly I totally expect the real demands to use BBCSO far exceeds my rig as well as many other users current setups(16gig i7 laptops)included.
> When I first saw the stream before spec requirements were released I immediately assumed a user would need a VEP master/slave setup or a crazy new(next MacPro or a PC equivalent)maxed out rig.
> Then the minimum specs were published, my 1st reaction was how could this be possible?
> Yeah a user can use any library a section at a time, render to audio and continue step by step but who really wants to work that way.
> That's why I'd love to see what a modest rig can actually handle.
> I have numerous Spitfire libraries but I haven't used any Spitfire non-Kontakt releases yet so I'm curious to understand the limitations of Spitfires new player.
> Unfortunately from my perspective the new free lab minis will not give me any real sense of how working w/BBCSO would be on my modest rig.



I don't get the point about the new MacPro. I think many current setups could handle it quite well. I personally think the iMac i9 is one of the best machines for music production atm. Honestly, how many people here need more than 128 GB RAM? Most of the people here have around 32-64 GB and are fine with it.


----------



## CT

100 pages, 2000 posts... what a day.


----------



## JohnG

ridgero said:


> how many people here need more than 128 GB RAM? Most of the people here have around 32-64 GB and are fine with it.



IDK how many, but I have a lot more than that over several computers. Computers are a lot cheaper than time.


----------



## kgdrum

ridgero said:


> I don't get the point about the new MacPro. I think many current setups could handle it quite well. I personally think the iMac i9 is one of the best machines for music production atm. Honestly, how many people here need more than 128 GB RAM? Most of the people here have around 32-64 GB and are fine with it.




Well I agree and suspect there aren't many people out there that have a maxed out i9 w/128 gig rig.
Until people start using BBCSO we will really not know, maybe a 32-64gig(1 computer) setup will be enough, maybe not.
Of course it all depends on a users expectations and preferred workflow.
But IMO seeing what a user with a modest rig can actually work comfortably w/ BBCSO will be beneficial for the community at large.


----------



## Geoff Grace

I'd go as far as to say that 16 GB is fine for almost any VI work that doesn't involve orchestral mockups.

(Of course, I realize that's moot for the purposes of this thread.)

Best,

Geoff


----------



## dzilizzi

So I finally get a computer with 64GB RAM and now I need double? Sigh.... I'm hoping Andy's 33GB usage is more normal for the full library.


----------



## David Gosnell

babylonwaves said:


> look at how the hans zimmer strings perform. if you switch on a couple of mics, it _is_ getting expensive because the voice count increases, obviously. if you're happy with a stereo mix, you can instantiate a lot of players without a performance penalty. but you need ram for all that. so, looking at the specs in your sig, i don't think that 32gb will do for an entire orchestra of that kind. also, the HZ Strings edition of the SF payer doesn't purge (but you can load smaller section presets). maybe that will have changed for the BBC player to help to bring the RAM requirements down. btw: i've never benchmarked the I/O performance of the SF player against Kontakt but it feels similar.


Hmmm, if the SF Player can’t purge unused samples - that does make the RAM loading for the full orchestra a far more crucial stat to get our heads around, in addition to understanding what the real-time load is on the system of a large number of instances.

As for a ‘lowest common denominator’ rig, not sure how that works for other DAWs, but for Cubase it’s not a simple question. All sorts of things unique to each build can affect the system latency, even down to graphics cards, soundcards and so forth. The processor and RAM are only the start of the story. I’d be happy with a manufacturer’s minimum requirements on the product page accurately reflecting a rig that can run BBCSO as a full orchestra template without significant issues.


----------



## jaketanner

I am betting that SF will soon be releasing the BBC orchestra in sections. You get the GUI and then you buy your choice of library...and can always add more to it later on...I just can't see them only offering all or nothing..that's is a terrible business idea. They may get 1000 people wanting the strings @ $250, or 100 people buying the whole thing at $750...as an example...makes no sense not to split it. But that's my prediction...the sections are coming.


----------



## Ashermusic

jaketanner said:


> I am betting that SF will soon be releasing the BBC orchestra in sections. You get the GUI and then you buy your choice of library...and can always add more to it later on...I just can't see them only offering all or nothing..that's is a terrible business idea. They may get 1000 people wanting the strings @ $250, or 100 people buying the whole thing at $750...as an example...makes no sense not to split it. But that's my prediction...the sections are coming.



I have to say that I am always surprised when people tell really successful companies with long track records, be it Spitfire or EW or whichever, how they should and should not market their products.

It either demonstrates remarkable self-confidence or hubris, but you will never catch me doing it.


----------



## jaketanner

Ashermusic said:


> I have to say that I am always surprised when people tell really successful companies with long track records, be it Spitfire or EW or whichever, how they should and should not market their products.
> 
> It either demonstrates remarkable self-confidence or hubris, but you will never catch me doing it.


I am not going to stop either. This is what this thread is about. Regardless if they do or not, I, as a SF customer would not but the entire library. Don’t need it. So my opinion. Like I said, not gonna stop predicting, and voicing opinions. I can guarantee you that I am not the only one who feels this way.


----------



## Ashermusic

I wrote songs with Paul Jabara for app 15 years before he died from AIDS. He used to get annoyed by people telling him how to do things as if he was not successful or knew anything.

Once when I arrived at his place to write, he said, “Jay we need to write a song called “Everybody’s An Authority On Everything.”

I think that’s even more true now.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Geoff Grace said:


> I'd go as far as to say that 16 GB is fine for almost any VI work that doesn't involve orchestral mockups.
> 
> (Of course, I realize that's moot for the purposes of this thread.)
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff



Yeah. I think people are are making a mountain out of a mole hill here. You don’t need to load everything into RAM these days, you can even just enable the actual tracks (instruments) you’re actually going to use. I’m more interested in what BBC actually sounds like.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Geoff Grace said:


> I'd go as far as to say that 16 GB is fine for almost any VI work that doesn't involve orchestral mockups.
> 
> (Of course, I realize that's moot for the purposes of this thread.)
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


Agreed. On holiday last month, I coerced my wife's 4GB MacBook Air into service as a remote rig. For general composing with a splash of SF Studio Orch, it was just about doable.

I wouldn't make a habit of it though..
A


----------



## Alex Fraser

Wolfie2112 said:


> Yeah. I think people are are making a mountain out of a mole hill here. You don’t need to load everything into RAM these days, you can even just enable the actual tracks (instruments) you’re actually going to use. I’m more interested in what BBC actually sounds like.


This new library appears to offer further flexibility here too - the ability to choose your own articulations per plugin is going to be a boon for those of us with lower end hardware.


----------



## jaketanner

Ashermusic said:


> I wrote songs with Paul Jabara for app 15 years before he died from AIDS. He used to get annoyed by people telling him how to do things as if he was not successful or knew anything.
> 
> Once when I arrived at his place to write, he said, “Jay we need to write a song called “Everybody’s An Authority On Everything.”
> 
> I think that’s even more true now.


Just don't see why I need to feel defensive for saying what is most likely on many people's minds here. I think it's inevitable for them to split it out...that's my stance. From the marketing perspective, or rather consumer perspective as I am not a marketing professional...it makes sense to me to test the whole library and see how it does...then when enough people complain about why they can't just buy the sections, they'll do it. Audio Imperia did it with Jaegar and gave us the solo voice. 

But again this is a prediction and speculation...and I made some observations as a consumer. 

Do I know for sure why SF did it this way...of course not. I also didn't want to start a whole thing here either...LOL


----------



## Zero&One

Can't see them splitting it into sections, at least for 10 years. It would go against everything they are marketing BBCSO for.
You send someone a project and they reply "sorry mate, I only bought the flutes!"


----------



## jaketanner

James H said:


> Can't see them splitting it into sections, at least for 10 years. It would go against everything they are marketing BBCSO for.
> You send someone a project and they reply "sorry mate, I only bought the flutes!"


LOL..yes I get that part of course. But then they are banking that people will want to only use SF libraries in projects...I do get what you're saying and that part makes sense..but then the whole concept of this library is not making sense to me.. LOL. I know Christian said it wasn't for everyone, but I am still trying to have an open mind about this library and it's functionality. 

What I then see happening, is that people will love the strings or even the brass (which sounded great in the demo), and buy it for that...still a good deal for those two sections.


----------



## Fleer

Okay, let’s close that inroad for a while, as all we have are conjectures. On with the show, I’d welcome some more news.


----------



## CT

Homay's demo is so damn lovely....


----------



## Fleer

Always preferred hubris to arrogance 
Point n’est besoin d’entreprendre pour espérer ni de persévérer pour réussir.


----------



## christianhenson

When I close the competition next week I'll do a more detailed performance analysis. Kontakt is a sampler which we observed (from our own behaviour) was being used 99% of the time by us Orchestral bods as a plugin player. So with our dedicated plugin players because you're not loading a sampler every time you need an orchestral instrument with all the redundant functionality that offers it means the GB and Ghz footprint is considerably smaller. 

In Jake and my template we have 141 instances of BBCSO and my system didn't even blink, it also loads on my laptop just fine (I've got 32GB of RAM in that). 

As a poster above suggests (and as Jake and I have done) each track is powered down in Logic so it doesn't load into memory until you need it so we were able to also load the entire template onto Jake's much older laptop (don't have spec for that).

With regards Andy's demo, by simply reducing the mic count you would be able to reduce the RAM footprint by half in an instant. I will show in a future vlog how I work when I'm on the road with orchestral templates and have created very hygienic workflows that I believe actually deliver a better end-mix as a consequence.


----------



## ridgero

christianhenson said:


> In Jake and my template we have 141 instances of BBCSO and my system didn't even blink, it also loads on my laptop just fine (I've got 32GB of RAM in that).



Thats very promising! 

Btw, that means I lost the competition :D


----------



## christianhenson

141 tracks all on and loaded both into my iMac Pro and MBP, seem to be working without blinking, writing nice chunky tracks, no crashes, freezes or drops in the 2 weeks that I've had the beta. Worth bearing in mind our plugin player is a modular system so has the advantage of loading all you need to run BBCSO and nothing more whilst also being (relatively) brand spanking new code, so very lean on system resources indeed. No multi support for BBCSO at this time, it is something we're considering, but I can't offer up any more news than that.


----------



## Pianolando

christianhenson said:


> 141 tracks all on and loaded both into my iMac Pro and MBP, seem to be working without blinking, writing nice chunky tracks, no crashes, freezes or drops in the 2 weeks that I've had the beta. Worth bearing in mind our plugin player is a modular system so has the advantage of loading all you need to run BBCSO and nothing more whilst also being (relatively) brand spanking new code, so very lean on system resources indeed. No multi support for BBCSO at this time, it is something we're considering, but I can't offer up any more news than that.



BAM! Very good news. Looking forward to some walkthroughs, seems likely that I will finally jump aboard the Spitfire ship.


----------



## AndyP

ridgero said:


> I don't get the point about the new MacPro. I think many current setups could handle it quite well. I personally think the iMac i9 is one of the best machines for music production atm. Honestly, how many people here need more than 128 GB RAM? Most of the people here have around 32-64 GB and are fine with it.


+1 I can confirm that! Since I have the iMac i9 I start the VEP slaves much less often.
Currently there are 72 GB ram installed and that's mostly enough so far. An upgrade to 128 GB is easy and cheap.


----------



## Loïc D

christianhenson said:


> 141 tracks all on and loaded both into my iMac Pro and MBP, seem to be working without blinking, writing nice chunky tracks, no crashes, freezes or drops in the 2 weeks that I've had the beta. Worth bearing in mind our plugin player is a modular system so has the advantage of loading all you need to run BBCSO and nothing more whilst also being (relatively) brand spanking new code, so very lean on system resources indeed. No multi support for BBCSO at this time, it is something we're considering, but I can't offer up any more news than that.


Aaaaaawesome !
Good job guys. 
Can’t wait to see the walkthrough


----------



## Zero&One

@christianhenson will this new player just home BBCSO for now and possibly upgrade HZ Strings etc at a later date? Or will the new version support all the existing 'player' products?


----------



## christianhenson

As far as I know we've done a shit ton of material for HZ which he is going to allow us to put into a very chunky upgrade, it would make sense to me that we also update the plugin at that point with all these enhancements. Whilst I take that as a given James I thank you for reminding me to check this with the team...


----------



## Karma

christianhenson said:


> With regards Andy's demo, by simply reducing the mic count you would be able to reduce the RAM footprint by half in an instant. I will show in a future vlog how I work when I'm on the road with orchestral templates and have created very hygienic workflows that I believe actually deliver a better end-mix as a consequence.


To further add to this, Andy also increased his preload buffer size as well. I've just loaded up his demo using the default preload size and his project sits at only 23.1GB. No issues at all with playback, and this is on Windows 10 with Cubase.

In reducing his mics to half as Christian has said, I've brought the project down to this...






Bear in mind that Andy hasn't loaded up every single instrument and some of the ensemble patches aren't in use (as displayed in the keynote track list). But by loading those in as well you'd only be looking at a couple GB more using the same mic setup.

Luke


----------



## Geoff Grace

This is all very helpful. Thanks, *Christian* and *Luke*!

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Zedcars

I must say, I think the communication Christian, Paul and the Spitfire team are putting out is absolutely outstanding and really help make this feel like they are listening. I really appreciate them taking the time to talk through any misunderstandings or queries, even though the library is still being completed behind the scenes. There is no corporate brick wall causing rampant speculation or distrust. If only more companies would communicate this well I think we’d all have much better products and services across all industries.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Karma said:


> To further add to this, Andy also increased his preload buffer size as well. I've just loaded up his demo using the default preload size and his project sits at only 23.1GB. No issues at all with playback, and this is on Windows 10 with Cubase.
> 
> In reducing his mics to half as Christian has said, I've brought the project down to this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bear in mind that Andy hasn't loaded up every single instrument and some of the ensemble patches aren't in use (as displayed in the keynote track list). But by loading those in as well you'd only be looking at a couple GB more using the same mic setup.
> 
> Luke


Thanks Luke. Is this memory footprint using the premade JJ mixes or similar?


----------



## D Halgren

@christianhenson What does all this mean for the legacy products? I own just about all of your orchestral products, but what is the incentive for a new person to buy any of your legacy products, if the new products perform so much better? What is going to happen with SSO, etc. Truly curious about this.


----------



## Karma

Alex Fraser said:


> Thanks Luke. Is this memory footprint using the premade JJ mixes or similar?


That's right, it's one of the premade stereo mixes.


----------



## Fleer

D Halgren said:


> @christianhenson What does all this mean for the legacy products? I own just about all of your orchestral products, but what is the incentive for a new person to buy any of your legacy products, if the new products perform so much better? What is going to happen with SSO, etc. Truly curious about this.


Knowing those fine people from Spitfire, I’m pretty sure they’ll graciously take care of us.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Karma said:


> That's right, it's one of the premade stereo mixes.


Thanks mate, and props for working on a Sunday. 😎


----------



## christianhenson

D Halgren said:


> @christianhenson What does all this mean for the legacy products? I own just about all of your orchestral products, but what is the incentive for a new person to buy any of your legacy products, if the new products perform so much better? What is going to happen with SSO, etc. Truly curious about this.



These libraries are made with every effort we can muster and every inch of love we can offer. Something we have always believed in is choice. Whether it be recorded at the hall in Air, the studio at Air, or our own tiny studio in KX, with Hilary's band, the LCO or indeed the BBCSO, by giving our profession choice we give ourselves the chance of finding our own individual voices. What we learn from BBCSO we will apply to Albion, what we learn from recent Hall recordings we will apply to BBCSO and HZS. What we learn from Kontakt we apply to our software, what we learn from our software we apply to what we do in Kontakt. We're not stopping any of these adventures, we're simply broadening our, and we hope everyone else's horizons.


----------



## funnybear

christianhenson said:


> What we learn from BBCSO we will apply to Albion, what we learn from recent Albion recordings we will apply to BBCSO and HZS.



New Albion recordings? Please do tell us more!!!


----------



## D Halgren

christianhenson said:


> These libraries are made with every effort we can muster and every inch of love we can offer. Something we have always believed in is choice. Whether it be recorded at the hall in Air, the studio at Air, or our own tiny studio in KX, with Hilary's band, the LCO or indeed the BBCSO, by giving our profession choice we give ourselves the chance of finding our own individual voices. What we learn from BBCSO we will apply to Albion, what we learn from recent Hall recordings we will apply to BBCSO and HZS. What we learn from Kontakt we apply to our software, what we learn from our software we apply to what we do in Kontakt. We're not stopping any of these adventures, we're simply broadening our, and we hope everyone else's horizons.


So then, are you saying that the more expensive, both in terms of cost and CPU/RAM legacy products, will eventually be reworked into the new engine?


----------



## christianhenson

I'm merely allaying concerns about this newer sample tech being more hungry than Kontakt where the reverse is true.


----------



## D Halgren

D Halgren said:


> So then, are you saying that the more expensive, both in terms of cost and CPU/RAM legacy products, will eventually be reworked into the new engine?


And to clarify, I for one, really like the new engine.


----------



## christianhenson

Thats great news Halgren, becoming a software developer has been a pretty hefty endeavour!


----------



## D Halgren

christianhenson said:


> I'm merely allaying concerns about this newer sample tech being more hungry than Kontakt where the reverse is true.


That is exactly my point. How will your legacy products fair, if the new stuff is more efficient and less expensive? I'm really not trying to break your balls, I'm more interested in the possibility of things being ported over to the new engine


----------



## dzilizzi

christianhenson said:


> I'm merely allaying concerns about this newer sample tech being more hungry than Kontakt where the reverse is true.


This makes BBCSO more interesting as, though I love SSO's sound, I do have issues if I want to load a full template. I can't use it on my laptop without bouncing tracks. I understand that because it is not a player, you can reduce the footprint needed to make it work. This is really cool. Thanks! 

I may end up not waiting for it to be in the wishlist sales.


----------



## jamwerks

Regarding articulation management, UACC is great, and together with the "group" function is very powerfull. That lets me control the 38 arts of SCS with 9 slots in expression maps, with each slot containing 2-8 arts that I get to via a CC fader. 

Hopefully similare funcions will be present on the new SF Player. Can't wait !


----------



## JoeHidden

@christianhenson I find the template / collaboration part super interesting. Primarily I work with Cubase on Windows 10, but I also own a MacBook Pro with Logic. I wonder if I can buy the Windows version and still participate in the collaboration and learning aspects on the Macbook. May the second personal computer also be cross-platform?


----------



## Geoff Grace

D Halgren said:


> I'm more interested in the possibility of things being ported over to the new engine


Judging from the posts I've read here and elsewhere, it seems that you're in the minority, for now at least. People are very used to their workflow with Kontakt, after all. 

BBCSO will provide more experience with Spitfire's new platform, at which point you may have more company, and the demand for porting older products over may increase. If that happens, there will be less resistance—and more support—from the customer base for Spitfire to migrate at that time than there would be now. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## D Halgren

Geoff Grace said:


> Judging from the posts I've read here and elsewhere, it seems that you're in the minority, for now at least. People are very used to their workflow with Kontakt, after all.
> 
> BBCSO will provide more experience with Spitfire's new platform, at which point you may have more company, and the demand for porting older products over may increase. If that happens, there will be less resistance—and more support—from the customer base for Spitfire to migrate at that time than there would be now.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


To be fair, they already started the process with the Evos and Labs. If this new library is better in every way, not just a different sound/hall, then how can they continue to sell the legacy orchestra at twice the price? I don't plan on buying the BBCSO because I already have SCS and SSO and the Studio Orchestra, but if the programming is so superior, then I will be jealous of the new product's performance.


----------



## KEM

christianhenson said:


> As far as I know we've done a shit ton of material for HZ which he is going to allow us to put into a very chunky upgrade, it would make sense to me that we also update the plugin at that point with all these enhancements. Whilst I take that as a given James I thank you for reminding me to check this with the team...



Ok now I’m excited...!!


----------



## synthetic

Just did a bit of research and answered my own question, maybe this is useful to someone else. In the EW Choir manual, the FAQ says, "With our products you have two licenses." 

But what if you want to instal on one Mac and one Windows computer, the buy page says Mac or Windows? Derp, that's for the format of the SSD if you order it.


----------



## jamwerks

As for porting older libraries to the new sampler, if it provides new features and better performance, why not? What's so reassuring about Kontakt? All sample Players UI's work in pretty much the same way, they just look different. Seems as if some here get a hard-on just thinking about the Kontakt UI...


----------



## BassClef

@christianhenson A thought about collaboration and effects processing. Since the goal here is to have all involved "hearing" the same music, have you thought about effects processing which of course greatly effects the final product. Especially in "educational" sharing with the general public, and since you are a Logic user, perhaps you could create your BBCSO "training" pieces for your blogs using ONLY Logic's built in effects processors.


----------



## zolhof

I'm all up for Spitfire gradually moving away from Kontakt. Other than the obvious performance improvements, they don't need to pay NI a dime and that is reflected on the final price. I don't think they coul drop a full symphonic library with the BBC name attached for $750 if they were releasing it for Kontakt. Another good reason is piracy. Fuck piracy.

Their player still has a lot to mature, it lacks basic features such as purge, multi channels, and something similar to the wrench tool, for those who need to go under the hood. But in time, why not?


----------



## Noeticus

I would like all the Spitfire plugin apps to allow us to control the color of the app. I hate the white background on the labs app.

And Kontact needs to allow us to change the size/scaling of the app, and the color.


----------



## KEM

My only question about the SF Player is if I can load up all articulations in a single instance of the player but route each of them to a different MIDI channel within Cubase (or any DAW) like you can do in Kontakt, if so I am all for it, that's probably the most important feature for me personally.


----------



## Jdiggity1

KEM said:


> My only question about the SF Player is if I can load up all articulations in a single instance of the player but route each of them to a different MIDI channel within Cubase (or any DAW) like you can do in Kontakt, if so I am all for it, that's probably the most important feature for me personally.


Christian answered this already: "No multi support for BBCSO at this time, it is something we're considering, but I can't offer up any more news than that."


----------



## KEM

Jdiggity1 said:


> Christian answered this already: "No multi support for BBCSO at this time, it is something we're considering, but I can't offer up any more news than that."



Awwww RIP


----------



## erica-grace

So, if I want: Picc, Flute, Oboe, Eng Hn, Clar, B.Clar, Bassoons, CBassoons, Horns, Trumpets, Trombones, BTrombone, Tuba, V1, V2, Vla, Celli, DBass, Tymp, BDrum, Snare - I have to have 21 Instances of the SFA player loaded?


----------



## Jdiggity1

erica-grace said:


> So, if I want: Picc, Flute, Oboe, Eng Hn, Clar, B.Clar, Bassoons, CBassoons, Horns, Trumpets, Trombones, BTrombone, Tuba, V1, V2, Vla, Celli, DBass, Tymp, BDrum, Snare - I have to have 21 Instances of the SFA player loaded?


Is that such a bad thing?


----------



## CT

I've pretty much never used Kontakt in anything but an instance-per-instrument (sometimes per articulation!) way, often with large, full orchestral setups, and I've never run into a problem, even on my rather outdated computer.

The Spitfire player seems at least as efficient as Kontakt in my experience, so I can't imagine that it will be a huge deal to load a bunch of instances in the same way. I'm sure it'll be a workflow complaint for some people, but I doubt it'll be a performance issue.


----------



## Denkii

Im currently sitting at around 80 instances of Kontakt pre loaded, another 30 or so disabled. I would never want to go back to having multis, only if it's a deliberate choice because I want that exact multi as one patch.

Edit: forgot the ethnic folder. There's another 43 instances of Kontakt purged and roughly double the amount of engine2 disabled.


----------



## CT

Denkii said:


> only if it's a deliberate choice because I want that exact multi as one patch.



Yeah, that's the only time I ever use multis. I honestly don't get the appeal of working that way otherwise. It seems so much more convoluted, and Kontakt invariably gets sluggish when I've tried.


----------



## Denkii

miket said:


> Yeah, that's the only time I ever use multis. I honestly don't get the appeal of working that way otherwise. It seems so much more convoluted, and Kontakt invariably gets sluggish when I've tried.


I agree but I like that people can choose to set it up how they want it.


----------



## Denkii

The only thing that's annoying is having freshly added instances in the wrong order in the instrument rack...it hurts my ocd.


----------



## KEM

I just like having multis cause that’s how I learned to use VEP and I have a better understanding of how it works, and wouldn’t an instance by instance method take up much more RAM than a multi setup? I only have 32gb so I’m trying to limit my memory usage as much as possible.


----------



## rlw

D Halgren said:


> That is exactly my point. How will your legacy products fair, if the new stuff is more efficient and less expensive? I'm really not trying to break your balls, I'm more interested in the possibility of things being ported over to the new engine


I am an owner of SSO with the extended mics. I love that sound and I also love the sound of the BBCO. I know that each sound inspires different creative processes and for me will inspire different compositions. Both libraries will have their place and fine music will come from both. One does not replace the other.


----------



## 5Lives

I also never use multis in Logic - one instance per track (plus articulation maps). Keeps my template clean and easy to manage / understand. I’m sure Spitfire will add multi support later as it seems like a popular request.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Personally, if I relied on multis (I don't), I'd probably change my workflow for this.


----------



## VinRice

Just to keep everybody up-to-date with the real subject of this thread - some chocolate news:

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...tmas-shrinkflation-trims-quality-street-again


----------



## Peter Satera

I don't use logic/cubase, but for me every extra kontakt instance is around 60mb of Ram. It mounts up unfortunately.


----------



## redlester

VinRice said:


> Just to keep everybody up-to-date with the real subject of this thread - some chocolate news:
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/busines...tmas-shrinkflation-trims-quality-street-again



Thanks, this is critical information!

Less weight..but more chocolates and less toffee's? What you lose in chips you gain in beans....


----------



## paulthomson

Hi all - 

Just got a bit of extra info from Andy about his demo. 

He has a mac pro 2012, 2 x 3.46GHz 6 core Xeon, with 96GB 1333MHz DDR3 ram. 

His workflow is running the sample content inside VEP and midi in DP.

He played the demo mix out live on the machine. 

Strings were mostly the first JJ mix plus Woods and Perc spill (3 "mics" active). Woods were mainly the mix plus a bit of Balcony mic on Flute. Brasswas mainly the mix plus Perc Spill and a little Balcony here and there. Perc mainly the mix plus some Brass spill.

Hope that provides a bit more context, a decent sized full orch track running live with multiple mics on a 2012 machine.

All best,

Paul


----------



## paulthomson

And some more truly important info, at Christmas its always Quality Street at ours, although the kids always nick the toffee pennies first.


----------



## KEM

Peter Satera said:


> I don't use logic/cubase, but for me every extra kontakt instance is around 60mb of Ram. It mounts up unfortunately.



Especially when you’re using each articulation per MIDI channel instead of keyswitches, which is how I prefer to work. That’s where multis come into play.


----------



## Alex Fraser

KEM said:


> Especially when you’re using each articulation per MIDI channel instead of keyswitches, which is how I prefer to work. That’s where multis come into play.


In the HZ player, you can trigger articulation via midi channel. Depending on your workflow, that may be a solution?


----------



## Alex Fraser

VinRice said:


> Just to keep everybody up-to-date with the real subject of this thread - some chocolate news:
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/busines...tmas-shrinkflation-trims-quality-street-again


Excellent. The good news that BBCSO will run well on older machines is topped only by the news that there's less toffee in a tin of Quality Street this Christmas.


----------



## VinRice

Alex Fraser said:


> Excellent. The good news that BBCSO will run well on older machines is topped only by the news that there's less toffee in a tin of Quality Street this Christmas.



Swings and roundabouts as always Alex, what are going to use to prop up that wobbly table now huh?


----------



## KEM

Alex Fraser said:


> In the HZ player, you can trigger articulation via midi channel. Depending on your workflow, that may be a solution?



Was not aware of that actually, I’ll have to take a look!


----------



## D Halgren

rlw said:


> I am an owner of SSO with the extended mics. I love that sound and I also love the sound of the BBCO. I know that each sound inspires different creative processes and for me will inspire different compositions. Both libraries will have their place and fine music will come from both. One does not replace the other.


I own SSO with the extended mics as well. I understand the difference in sound and options. I think my question is really what makes SSO more expensive than BBCSO? Is it the NI fees?

Anyway, I'm a fan of your work, Rob! Everything that I hear from you is great!

I am also very excited about the HZ Strings update!


----------



## Cat

Excellent thread, I read most of its posts, but I haven't seen asked what I believe is one of the most important questions;

*How many dynamic layers do the instruments have?* Because if it is on par with Symphonic Orchestra then it is bad, bad, bad! If it is on par with Cinematic Studio Strings/Brass and Hollywood Strings/Brass then it is good news.


----------



## Sovereign

Cat said:


> *How many dynamic layers do the instruments have?* Because if it is on par with Symphonic Orchestra then it is bad, bad, bad! If it is on par with Cinematic Studio Strings/Brass and Hollywood Strings/Brass then it is good news.


SO is that bad then? Either way, I think everyone here wants to know the answer.


----------



## axb312

Cat said:


> Excellent thread, I read most of its posts, but I haven't seen asked what I believe is one of the most important questions;
> 
> *How many dynamic layers do the instruments have?* Because if it is on par with Symphonic Orchestra then it is bad, bad, bad! If it is on par with Cinematic Studio Strings/Brass and Hollywood Strings/Brass then it is good news.


Asked this many posts ago. No response yet. How many dynamic layers and how many round robins...?


----------



## mikeh-375

I'll bet it's the usual boring 3 layers....I hate cc11.


----------



## Fleer

Any professional knows Quality Street tins are full of dynamic layers and round robins.


----------



## jamwerks

I didn't really use much the SSO Brass or Woodwinds. But I doen't remember hearing problems. Berlin Woodwinds Revive did only two layers for the majority of the instruments, and I found that to be too little. And brass instruments have so much of a timbral change that the more layers the better. Didn't CSB do up to 5 layers?

Anyway, here I'm hoping for at least 3 for the WW's !


----------



## Noeticus

A "Game Changing" VST should have lots of round robins, dynamic layers, various length shorts etc. etc.


----------



## mikeh-375

Fleer said:


> Any professional knows Quality Street tins are full of dynamic layers and round robins.



That maybe true @Fleer. One things for sure, the tins aint full of Quality chocolate (see what I did there)......reaches for hard hat....and ....ducks.....


----------



## Cat

mikeh-375 said:


> I'll bet it's the usual boring 3 layers....I hate cc11.



That would be terrible! I mean for Strings (longs/legatos) you might *barely* get by with only 3 layers (and use CC11), for Woodwinds and especially Brass (longs/legatos) it is, in my personal humble opionin, very bad! (I decided not to use "unusable", just to be polite). Well, depends on the music you want to write, of course, but considering this is a "stellar" BBC orchestra library, providing only 3 dyn layers would be un-excusable! Hope it is at least 4 dynamic layers, like other mainstream libraries.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Fleer said:


> Any professional knows Quality Street tins are full of dynamic layers and round robins.



All top tier creatives know that sweets like Quality Street are for big girls blouses and girly swots.

Real creatives know that true inspiraition and enlightenment is only reached with the consumption of Chocolate HobNobs.....








Nom Nom Nom.....​


----------



## Fleer

Indeed. But in the end, happiness is a cigar called Hamlet.


----------



## mikeh-375

That remark ages you @Fleer....the fact that I said that ages me too..shit.


----------



## redlester

Yet again further proof that whatever Spitfire do they will never please everyone - I hate Hob Nobs. The most over-rated biscuit ever.

Chocolate Digestive's all the way (milk or plain, either will do).


----------



## redlester

Fleer said:


> Indeed. But in the end, happiness is a cigar called Hamlet.



Indeed, and of course...Roses grow on you - OOH. (One for the over-55's I reckon).

https://www.hatads.org.uk/catalogue/record/9545b843-4a89-4980-ae6a-228c624ce2e7


----------



## Fleer

You've got to love Johann Sebastian Bach.


----------



## mikeh-375

So do you want just 2 or 3 dynamic layers of taste ladies and gents, or a full dynamic range of explosive aural oral beauty....."This is Ireland Calling"


----------



## Cat

jamwerks said:


> I didn't really use much the SSO Brass or Woodwinds. But I doen't remember hearing problems. Berlin Woodwinds Revive did only two layers for the majority of the instruments, and I found that to be too little. And brass instruments have so much of a timbral change that the more layers the better. Didn't CSB do up to 5 layers?
> 
> Anyway, here I'm hoping for at least 3 for the WW's !


Try to program a swell with SSO Horns a6 and you will hear how terrible it sounds. Or the Bones...


----------



## VinRice

redlester said:


> Yet again further proof that whatever Spitfire do they will never please everyone - I hate Hob Nobs. The most over-rated biscuit ever.
> 
> Chocolate Digestive's all the way (milk or plain, either will do).



Ahh, a man of taste and sophistication. Chocolate Digestives...Grandpa's cocaine.


----------



## Denkii

Grandparents flashbacks are made of these...


----------



## jbuhler

Cat said:


> Try to program a swell with SSO Horns a6 and you will hear how terrible it sounds. Or the Bones...


TBH, I've never had much of a problem with either of these patches in SSB, at least for the kinds of swells I typically write. (I have all kinds of problem with swells in Spitfire Studio Brass). And more dynamic layers are liable to cause more problems because more transitions between layers have to be negotiated. I'm not really a fan of the a6 horn patch in SSB, but it's not because of how it manages swells.


----------



## jonvog

Oh maaaan. Special educational discount until October 21st (back to school). I am more than tempted to pull the trigger on BBCSO, as I don't have any orchestral library worth mentioning, and I need the whole thing. But it is a very hard decision, without knowing more details (having to make the decision before it comes out on oct 24th anyways)... It almost certainly can't be that bad, that it isn't worth 600 bucks. But than again the other spitfire libraries are discounted too. And after oct 21st I still should get the normal 30% discount. 

And Cinematic Studio Series are still tempting as well (only, nobody knows when CSW comes out...).

Any suggestions?

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/back-to-school/


----------



## Bluemount Score

jonvog said:


> Any suggestions?
> https://www.spitfireaudio.com/back-to-school/


Nah, I feel that. Just wondering why they now even give us 40% discount on pre-order.
But I'm still waiting for that articulation list. 21st October? Still got time to decide.


----------



## gussunkri

Meetyhtan said:


> Just wondering why they now even give us 40% discount on pre-order.


Because they’re nice and BBCSO makes a lot of sense for students given that it is a complete orchestra and they have a lot of educational material planned?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

jonvog said:


> Oh maaaan. Special educational discount until October 21st (back to school). I am more than tempted to pull the trigger on BBCSO, as I don't have any orchestral library worth mentioning, and I need the whole thing. But it is a very hard decision, without knowing more details (having to make the decision before it comes out on oct 24th anyways)... It almost certainly can't be that bad, that it isn't worth 600 bucks. But than again the other spitfire libraries are discounted too. And after oct 21st I still should get the normal 30% discount.
> 
> And Cinematic Studio Series are still tempting as well (only, nobody knows when CSW comes out...).
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> https://www.spitfireaudio.com/back-to-school/



BBC educational discount is the same as the intro price anyways (which is good until Nov 7).


----------



## Saxer

I hope the BBCSO strings will include Performance Legatos. SCS and SSS have those and as far as I know Andy Blaney made them. Those Performance Legatos are a big step forward in playability. Andy Blaney is the only guy at Spitfire who uses their libraries like an orchestrator. That's kind of different from Christian Hensons and the younger employees approach using samples as a sound source to use in different ways (like playing ensemble sustain pads and doubling flautandos on top while the same string instruments play a pizz rhythm part). Both are legit ways of making wonderful music but the demands to patch programming are quite different.

I work, think and feel more like an orchestrator, so I'm not a fan of ensemble patches, presampled octaves, instrument doublings or EVOs. All that is a nice and useful add on but I need the clean sections and solo instruments as playable as possible as a basis. And as far as I know I'm not the only one. I think the claim of compatibility as an all in one orchestra library will rise and fall with it.


----------



## JEPA

how to compute the discounts? I read intro price €749

edit: Ok, I got it, the information was misleading first I saw 30% at the BBCSO main page but when I log in then I see 40% EDU discount.


----------



## sIR dORT

Why is this thread one hundred and 5 freaking pages long?


----------



## Cat

jbuhler said:


> TBH, I've never had much of a problem with either of these patches in SSB, at least for the kinds of swells I typically write. (I have all kinds of problem with swells in Spitfire Studio Brass). And more dynamic layers are liable to cause more problems because more transitions between layers have to be negotiated. I'm not really a fan of the a6 horn patch in SSB, but it's not because of how it manages swells.


Well, I would have to disagree with that regarding the number of layers as many other libraries do that perfectly. However what it really matters here is the fact that this info (number of dynamic layers of the library) should be made available! Each one of us will then make their own assessment if the layers’ number is enough or not, if will buy the library or not. The fact that, despite many people asking about this detail, there is still no info anywhere is somewhat troublesome.


----------



## jonvog

Wolfie2112 said:


> BBC educational discount is the same as the intro price anyways (which is good until Nov 7).


It is 40% off now. Intro price is 749, EDU back to school price 600. That's quite a difference...


----------



## VinRice

sIR dORT said:


> Why is this thread one hundred and 5 freaking pages long?



It's like a filibuster, designed to distract from all rational thought until the thing is released


----------



## pawelmorytko

Really want to see the list of full articulations so I can decide whether I might actually be getting this with student discount, or picking orchestral sections from different developers such as True Strike from Project Sam, Cineharp from Cinesamples, Strings from Cinematic Studio... it would make it so much easier having everything in one plug in, but it has to be the right one, with the right tone. I really hope it can do the big Hollywood, marvel superhero kind of music, and John Williams/John Powell kind of scores.


----------



## CT

I also need to see the articulation list, and of course, hear some isolated examples in walkthrough form, before firmly deciding anything, but I am already leaning heavily in favor of buying. 

Right now my only complaints are about instrumentation. I'll miss alto/bass flutes, I'd trade the bass trombones a2 and the non-contrabass tuba for a solo bass trombone and euphonium, and in general I'd rather have a2 winds/trombones than the a3 listed... but these are, relatively, nitpicks about what could be a fantastic toolkit.


----------



## KEM

sIR dORT said:


> Why is this thread one hundred and 5 freaking pages long?



Because Spitfire


----------



## Geoff Grace

sIR dORT said:


> Why is this thread one hundred and 5 freaking pages long?


I expect it to wind up much longer than that because of the long gap between teasers and announcement followed by another long wait between announcement and release. 

Nonetheless, it’s been a fun ride for the most part, including a lively discussion about chocolate to pass the time. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

jonvog said:


> It is 40% off now. Intro price is 749, EDU back to school price 600. That's quite a difference...



I’m seeing it as $749 for the educational discount. Unless they are offering the edu discount while the promo is in effect...which would be really cool.


----------



## rlw

D Halgren said:


> I own SSO with the extended mics as well. I understand the difference in sound and options. I think my question is really what makes SSO more expensive than BBCSO? Is it the NI fees?
> 
> Anyway, I'm a fan of your work, Rob! Everything that I hear from you is great!
> 
> I am also very excited about the HZ Strings update!


Thanks for your kind words @D Halgren. And I too am very excited about the HZ update in the works. Thank you @Spitfire for being so diligent to push the envelope.


----------



## dzilizzi

Wolfie2112 said:


> I’m seeing it as $749 for the educational discount. Unless they are offering the edu discount while the promo is in effect...which would be really cool.


If I remember correctly, they will get the 40% off the full price - so about $/£600. I was able to do it last year. This year there aren't enough evening classes I can take at my local community college. :( I may have to take some classes at a different school next year if I want to continue music classes. They used to have a bigger selection.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Wolfie2112 said:


> BBC educational discount is the same as the intro price anyways (which is good until Nov 7).


Wait, I thought it's 600 on educational discount (-40%) and 749 regular intro price?


----------



## muk

Cat said:


> The fact that, despite many people asking about this detail, there is still no info anywhere is somewhat troublesome.



There's plenty of time still before the release. I'm sure this info will be available in due time. I think Christian mentioned in one of his videos that they have learned not to promise features before they are airtight. So maybe they are holding back technical informations until the beta is closed. Just to make sure there are no last-minute surprises. Makes good sense in my opinion.


----------



## christianhenson

Cat, I point you to the answer I gave in this video: 



The library is still in development.

• Full specifications / articulation list not made public yet for fear that people buy based on this and then certain specs / artics don't make release version.

• Full walkthroughs and detailed tutorials not recorded yet because GUI not finalised by ourselves, BBCSO and BBC Studios. This is a joint venture with the BBC so requires just that little bit more of an approvals process.

I have recorded and edited a contextual video showing how I made the trailer music which will date because of the old GUIs but I think will be useful to us all as an interim video not-least because I'm sure it will raise questions which the SF team can address in future videos / text.

I can confirm though that prior to release in October all the usual suspects will be in place for you to peruse alongside an extended promo price period both as pre and post release.

We understand that at this PP it is a SERIOUS investment for people so have opted for giving people an extended promo period to consider it as opposed to just letting it drop and going "go on then, you've got two weeks before it goes full price".


----------



## AndyP

I rarely need keyswitches, but it's nice to have the flexibility to use both.


----------



## Adam Takacs

muk said:


> There's plenty of time still before the release. I'm sure this info will be available in due time. I think Christian mentioned in one of his videos that they have learned not to promise features before they are airtight. So maybe they are holding back technical informations until the beta is closed. Just to make sure there are no last-minute surprises. Makes good sense in my opinion.



It makes sense and I absolutely agree but I can't find clear informations about dynamic layers in the manuals of older products.
I think the number of dynamic layers are not consistent across the different instrument sections, not even at the various articulations and that is also understandable, but it's important to know. I'm excited about the details but there is plenty of time indeed. It is a great move that Spitfire has left so much time for consideration and decision. (Although I think I've already made the decision)


----------



## jamwerks

If the SF Player gui is not yet finalized, I'd vote for a little larger font sizes (and maybe less empty space), than what I've seen so far. 

Would love to have a "BBC large ensembles" library following this main one. Things like: 3 Tubas, 3 Cimbassi, 3 Contrebassons, etc...


----------



## KEM

jamwerks said:


> If the SF Player gui is not yet finalized, I'd vote for a little larger font sizes (and maybe less empty space), than what I've seen so far.
> 
> Would love to have a "BBC large ensembles" library following this main one. Things like: 3 Tubas, 3 Cimbassi, 3 Contrebassons, etc...



I would kill to have a 3 tubas patch in the Symphonic Series, that would be amazing.


----------



## Garry

Articulation list released!






Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra


The heart of British musicBBC Symphony Orchestra represents a new standard in orchestral sampling. A whole orchestra at your fingertips, spanning strings, brass, woodwinds and percussion. With three editions to choose from, each fully interoperable, BBCSO is a universal starting point for music...



www.spitfireaudio.com





Just looking through the strings (focussing on violins for sake of comparison), and comparing to SSO: 32 articulations in SSO, 20 in BBCSO (for section; 16 for leader); main difference is lack of shorts (no short 0'5, short 1'0, brushed), no measured trems and no 3rd trills (maj/min on 2nd only).

It's not a fair comparison of course (SSO is $800 just for the strings; BBCSO is 999 for the whole orchestra), but just as a point of comparison, to understand what compromises were necessarily made to be able to get this into a single library.

Comparing to SCS, no portamento, and in particular, 1 legato vs 13 legato patches in SCS! I wonder is there more to that legato patch in BBCSO that covers a broader range? Perhaps they've done this somewhat differently this time around - that will be interesting to hear more about...

Compared to SStS: no FX in violins (11 in SStS, 0 in BBCSO), in addition to those omissions mentioned above.

As Christian mentioned, they've learned a lot from these previous libraries, so it will be interesting to hear his perspective on the choice of articulations, and how it compares to the other libraries. I guess you can't expect any section of a whole orchestral library to match up to a dedicated section library. But this does make the choice clearer: do you want/need all those additional articulations (if so, then get the dedicated section libraries), or do you value the cohesiveness of BBCSO being a single library. I'm leaning towards the latter at this point.

Would definitely like to hear what that single legato patch is about, but notwithstanding this, in general I'm personally ok with the articulation list - covers my needs.

EDIT: since clarified: the legato is Portamento & slurred.


----------



## L-A Desire

Thanks for the alert @Garry. Have to say, I'm sad there aren't any measured trills or trems :( Makes the choice a bit harder!


----------



## redlester

sIR dORT said:


> Why is this thread one hundred and 5 freaking pages long?



I know, it should be much longer! 
And am sure it will be now that people have an articulation list to get their teeth into...


----------



## jamwerks

The "show full list" button isn't working for me (using MS Edge).


----------



## Denkii

> (using MS Edge).


Problem solved.


----------



## Garry

Denkii said:


> Problem solved.


Not working for me (Safari), whereas it was earlier, so I'll leave the list posted for now...

EDIT: could be while they make amendments, as noted by Christian below, so bear this in mind when look at the listed I posted above.


----------



## jamwerks

That's a very(!) generous combo of arts given the price.


----------



## christianhenson

I've sent some notes into the team to detail which spill mics and also mark which legatos have different legato types and are selectable via velocity.

**EDIT** Also worth noting that the leaders are separate recordings not just leader mics.


----------



## redlester

Working fine on Firefox.


----------



## Chungus

I'd assume the portamento is incorporated into the legato patch. Possibly triggered via velocity or the like.
(Edit: I was late on the draw, but right, it seems.  )

Still, again no full set of short artics on the brass/wind. (This time lacking staccatos) And with that, I've decided this library isn't for me.


----------



## mikeh-375

christianhenson said:


> I've sent some notes into the team to detail which spill mics and also mark which legatos have different legato types and are selectable via velocity.
> 
> **EDIT** Also worth noting that the leaders are separate recordings not just leader mics.



When do we get to know about dynamic Layers?


----------



## Garry

christianhenson said:


> I've sent some notes into the team to detail which spill mics and also mark which legatos have different legato types and are selectable via velocity.
> 
> **EDIT** Also worth noting that the leaders are separate recordings not just leader mics.


Is the legato like the Performance Legato, as described here? Or more akin to Legato Performance (confusing - but difference described here).

EDIT: legato is now listed as portamento & slurred, so assuming this will be similar to the Performance Legato - is that correct?


----------



## Adam Takacs

I asked the support team about short articulations RT function and portamento.
Both will be part of the BBCSO


----------



## Sovereign

tadam said:


> I asked the support team about short articulations RT function and portamento.
> Both will be part of the BBCSO


RT function?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Those articulations look great. Would be interesting to know what forms the untuned percussion comes in - I don't see articulations like snare/cymbal rolls etc. Perhaps they're simply part of the one patch, ie: the triangles patch contains hits on the first key, rolls on the second etc.


----------



## Adam Takacs

Sovereign said:


> RT function?


A very-very useful part of the Spitfire Kontakt libraries:
SHORT ARTICULATIONS RT - This option allows you to toggle whether staccato/tenuto/marcato notes have a release trigger that plays on release. This lets you tighten up staccatos or end marcatos/tenutos earlier than they were recorded.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Garry said:


> EDIT: legato is now listed as portamento & slurred, so assuming this will be similar to the Performance Legato - is that correct?


I'm guessing it's more like the studio series ones - portamento triggered on lower velocities.
Maybe it's something not seen before - those Andy Blaney runs sound quite speedy.


----------



## jamieboo

I've only ever used EW orchestras, so have no idea how Spitfire have previously handled such things, but I'm wondering about playable runs and things like that for the more agile instruments (flutes, violins, etc).
EW Hollywood Orchestra has 'Run Simulator' patches for such moments, but I see there is nothing obviously comparable to that in the articulation list.
Any ideas?


----------



## synthetic

I don't think most libraries advertise the number of RR and dynamic layers? 

List looks good to me. I wish there were a few more tenuto recordings, I don't use them often but sometimes they're just right. But otherwise it looks great. I was expecting fewer articulations than the original sections at the price/size, but they have all the ones I really use regularly.


----------



## gtrwll

For 600€ this is starting to sound more and more compelling... I'm more than covered when it comes to orchestral sample libraries, but a whole, cohesive library would be something else.


----------



## Zero&One

Nice! Do me just fine.
Just waiting for that "Your SSD is on it's way!" email. Hits F5


----------



## jbuhler

I thought an earlier version of the articulation list had long muted brass. But now there seems to be no muted brass at all. I hope they plan to add that at a later date.


----------



## zolhof

Nice compromise between price and bulk. Template updated, boss is happy:






Now we play the waiting game...


----------



## Sovereign

jbuhler said:


> I thought an earlier version of the articulation list had long muted brass. But now there seems to be no muted brass at all. I hope they plan to add that at a later date.


Well as long as we're talking about missing articulations, I'd have liked to see horns glissando too and regular staccato for brass and woodwinds. Mutes would be welcome too.


----------



## Denkii

zolhof said:


> Nice compromise between price and bulk. Template updated, boss is happy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now we play the waiting game...



May I Ask what I am looking at?
It is shiny...what is it?
Do I want it?


----------



## Spitfire Team

Updated Articulations List for BBCSO! 






Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra


The heart of British musicBBC Symphony Orchestra represents a new standard in orchestral sampling. A whole orchestra at your fingertips, spanning strings, brass, woodwinds and percussion. With three editions to choose from, each fully interoperable, BBCSO is a universal starting point for music...



www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## richhickey

jamwerks said:


> If the SF Player gui is not yet finalized, I'd vote for a little larger font sizes (and maybe less empty space), than what I've seen so far.



Yes please. If you are going to replace Kontakt the _first_ thing to replace is the microscopic UI.


----------



## Bluemount Score

christianhenson said:


> • Full specifications / articulation list not made public yet for fear that people buy based on this and then certain specs / artics don't make release version.



That's fine, just PM it to me then 

Seriously though, thanks for the heads up, Christian!

EDIT: Whoops, I'm too late, it's public now


----------



## Bluemount Score

richhickey said:


> Yes please. If you are going to replace Kontakt the _first_ thing to replace is the microscopic UI.


Just buy yourself some kontakt lenses

For clarification... The leader patches mean that we get 5 Solo Strings as well, fully functional without the ensembles? How freaking cool is that?


----------



## Kurosawa

Mhmm.. a sustained Celeste patch. 

Sadly no measured trills...


----------



## barteredbride

Spitfire Team said:


> Updated Articulations List for BBCSO!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra
> 
> 
> The heart of British musicBBC Symphony Orchestra represents a new standard in orchestral sampling. A whole orchestra at your fingertips, spanning strings, brass, woodwinds and percussion. With three editions to choose from, each fully interoperable, BBCSO is a universal starting point for music...
> 
> 
> 
> www.spitfireaudio.com



Cooooool cheers!!


----------



## christianhenson

Meetyhtan said:


> Just buy yourself some kontakt lenses
> 
> For clarification... The leader patches mean that we get 5 Solo Strings as well, fully functional without the ensembles? How freaking cool is that?



This is correct... it is a fecking massive library. All in one swoop, booom!


----------



## CT

Ok... I'll miss: larger trills, measured trems, woodwind harmonics and/or multiphonics, bells up for the horns, harp harmonics, bowed vibraphone, muted brass.

But, like my gripes about instrumentation, these are pretty minor if what this product *is* is as incredible as I suspect it will be. I don't think I'll ever have my dream orchestral VI unless I strike it rich and do it myself, so the best compromise is always of interest to me.

Regarding measured trems, I never listened to Andy's demo closely enough to realize that those Adams-esque strings weren't measured, but apparently just regular tremolos. Goes to show how much some of these distinctions really matter in a well-written context.


----------



## Bluemount Score

christianhenson said:


> This is correct... it is a fecking massive library. All in one swoop, booom!


Dang... I see people missing the measured trems and brass mutes but looking at "the rest" of the patch list I'm close to saying that I barely mind about those at this point


----------



## JF

Any details on how fast these legato patches will perform?


----------



## pawelmorytko

I really hope Spitfire releases an essentials pack taking things from the SSO, but say only the Longs, Legato, Pizz, Spiccato, Staccato, Tremolo, Trills, Harmonics, Col Legno, Bartok, Marcato for strings for example with limited mic positions. I can't imagine I'll ever use all of the Sul ponts and Sul tastos and con sordinos, so an essentials only library would be perfect for me, and save a lot of money. Just a personal little wish of mine that would help the students/newer composers/tight budget people, who still want the beautiful Air hall sound, but don't have the experience to write for Long Super Sul Taste strings just yet.


----------



## Portland

I will miss brass mutes, but for the price this library looks amazing!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

pawelmorytko said:


> I really hope Spitfire releases an essentials pack taking things from the SSO, but say only the Longs, Legato, Pizz, Spiccato, Staccato, Tremolo, Trills, Harmonics, Col Legno, Bartok, Marcato for strings for example with limited mic positions. I can't imagine I'll ever use all of the Sul ponts and Sul tastos and con sordinos, so an essentials only library would be perfect for me, and save a lot of money. Just a personal little wish of mine that would help the students/newer composers/tight budget people, who still want the beautiful Air hall sound, but don't have the experience to write for Long Super Sul Taste strings just yet.



Even at the current educational discount (you're a student), it's a steal for $600.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Wolfie2112 said:


> Even at the current educational discount (you're a student), it's a steal for $600.



Well personally I'm at a very awkward stage with my orchestral template where all I need is a nice choir, harp, percussion and woodwinds, and at the minute it seems better to just pick things from other developers than buy a whole new all in one that I might not even be 100% happy with and not use 100% of it.


----------



## dzilizzi

pawelmorytko said:


> Well personally I'm at a very awkward stage with my orchestral template where all I need is a nice choir, harp, percussion and woodwinds, and at the minute it seems better to just pick things from other developers than buy a whole new all in one that I might not even be 100% happy with and not use 100% of it.


The thing that is nice about this is you will have everything in one room. And it is very likely it will be a decent sounding product for everything. Unlike other products (coughEWHOcough) who have some great parts but others that just aren't good. It's also a full orchestra with all the percussion, first chairs, etc... It is really a great deal. 

The good thing about buying parts as you need them, you don't overspend. At first. The bad thing is that you eventually end up buying something like BBCSO anyway because you can't easily get your miscellaneous parts to work well together no matter how hard you try. So you end up with over 100 libraries on 5 various drives that don't quite do the work of one like this.

And? I might wait for the walkthrough...

Edit: Wait..am I getting paid for this? I really should be getting paid for this....


----------



## Michel Simons

dzilizzi said:


> The thing that is nice about this is you will have everything in one room. And it is very likely it will be a decent sounding product for everything. Unlike other products (coughEWHOcough) who have some great parts but others that just aren't good. It's also a full orchestra with all the percussion, first chairs, etc... It is really a great deal.
> 
> The good thing about buying parts as you need them, you don't overspend. At first. The bad thing is that you eventually end up buying something like BBCSO anyway because you can't easily get your miscellaneous parts to work well together no matter how hard you try. So you end up with over 100 libraries on 5 various drives that don't quite do the work of one like this.
> 
> And? I might wait for the walkthrough...
> 
> Edit: Wait..am I getting paid for this? I really should be getting paid for this....



Or maybe you are trying to talk yourself into buying this library.


----------



## Garry

Just watching the Apple presentation of their new iPhones. Spitfire should totally be on stage for this next year, with their BBCSO library and the Logic template that they’re working with Apple on. How cool would that be - I think we’d all feel a sense of pride, like watching a family member graduate: it’s not exactly your own success, but you feel like you played a small part.


----------



## Zedcars

Nice art list for the price.

I’m guessing not many people use timp glissandi, but I do. It does not sound right if you try to use pitch-bend. I will just have to use another library for those, but it means I will have to use another timp entirely or it will sound odd. I totally understand why it’s not been recorded though.

*I am hoping as hard as I can that there will be a “Pro” version further down the line that will ‘fill in the gaps’ so to speak.*


----------



## jamwerks

All of those more speciality arts (muted brass, timpani gliss, more shorts, TM patches, etc.), will undoubtedly be available at some time soon with add-on libraries. I'm guessing (and hoping) that some kind of variable attack for legato & sustain patches will be included in upcoming add-ons. Also hoping the Player will at some time have an on-board stretching function, for varying tempi of trems, trills, etc. !


----------



## dzilizzi

michelsimons said:


> Or maybe you are trying to talk yourself into buying this library.


I will be buying it eventually. Maybe not until it makes it to a wishlist sale! 

No really, I bought SSO last Christmas and regretted all the money I spent on other orchestral parts that don't sound half as good together as the full SSO does. I think HW would be good, but the winds aren't so great. So still not a full good orchestra.


----------



## Geocranium

I still find it a bit bizarre that there's no sampled solo bass trombone, only two bass trombones in unison. Is that a more common orchestration choice than solo B Bone?


----------



## babylonwaves

I applaud SF for releasing a new orchestral library which such a coherent list of non BS articulations. it'll be more than doable to move a phrase utilising multiple articulations from one instrument to another, independently of its' type.


----------



## redlester

Garry said:


> Just watching the Apple presentation of their new iPhones. Spitfire should totally be on stage for this next year, with their BBCSO library and the Logic template that they’re working with Apple on. How cool would that be - I think we’d all feel a sense of pride, like watching a family member graduate: it’s not exactly your own success, but you feel like you played a small part.



And instantly my iPhone Xs is now obsolete, already removed from the Apple site!

I was wondering if the new Mac Pro might have the price options up on the site after tonight, but not yet. I guess it will come after the next one, usually in October. Not that I will be buying one I hasten to add, am just interested in playing the game of looking at the price for the maxed out version.


----------



## CT

Geocranium said:


> I still find it a bit bizarre that there's no sampled solo bass trombone, only two bass trombones in unison. Is that a more common orchestration choice than solo B Bone?



Maybe it is in the scoring world now; Spitfire would know that better than I do, but it's definitely not more common in the classical world. It's the most perplexing choice on the instrument list, for me, but there's a contrabass in there, so I can just use that. Lower is better anyway!


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> And instantly my iPhone Xs is now obsolete, already removed from the Apple site!
> 
> I was wondering if the new Mac Pro might have the price options up on the site after tonight, but not yet. I guess it will come after the next one, usually in October. Not that I will be buying one I hasten to add, am just interested in playing the game of looking at the price for the maxed out version.


I’m still rocking the 6S and it’s working fine. I’ll be staying on this until it gives up the ghost. It does everything I need. I used to be wowed by Jobs’ Reality Distortion Field™, but that died with him. Thank goodness - more money for sample libraries 

BTW, what’s up with those stupid naming schemes now - iPhone 11 Pro Max? Really?

I do that maxing out thing on their site too - it’s crazy how quickly everything adds up.


----------



## Ihnoc

Quite impressed by the consistency of articulations here which is my main gripe with Symphonic Brass. I want to see tenutos on all the winds, more than long, short and tremolo con sordino for the strings and mute articulations for brass.

The thing is though, as a package at the price point, I don't think those things are really necessary at all. This feels like a consistent blank palette, just as the design direction detailed.

I'm interested in hearing the strings now, with so many effects and leader instruments. The harp and celeste options look great.

I'd like to see what hits and/or rolls there are for the percussion, in time.


----------



## AEF

I find myself rooting for it to be bad so I dont have to buy it, but no such luck. Looks really great, Spitfire!


----------



## Architekton

Articulations list looks great, but where are brass staccatos? Also, will strings/woodwinds legato be fast enough to do some realistic runs?


----------



## STec

Hey Spitfire, the Harp is not a percussion instrument!


----------



## rlw

STec said:


> Hey Spitfire, the Harp is not a percussion instrument!


Not a big issue and an easy mistake to make but Harp and Piano are both Tuned Percussion


----------



## Dave Connor

I was thinking about how much music lives on short notes in the strings: i.e. longer than typical spicc and stacc samples. So I simply grabbed the closest score to me - a Purcell string piece. It’s almost nothing but those lengths of shorts beyond the clipped ones so abundant these days. So, my first request for BBC expansion would be those additional lengths since the room is ideal for the Classical style. (Which is done in film these days by the ton by countless composers.)

And yes, I am hoping BBC becomes the acronym for this library as it won’t be confused with anything else; is shorter, and of course hipper.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Dave Connor said:


> And yes, I am hoping BBC becomes the acronym for this library as it won’t be confused with anything else...


...


----------



## Dave Connor

... or will it?


----------



## Fleer

Don’t ask Google. Don’t.


----------



## synthetic

They did say in the launch that "this is only the beginning." So maybe we'll see some of those other articulations in an upgrade or update. Maybe they recorded them but can't finish them in time for the launch. 

Also, is anyone seriously thinking "this is the last sample library I'll ever buy?" If so, realize you are reading "Sample Talk" on VI-control so that is probably not the case.


----------



## CT

I don't think it's the last one I'll *ever* buy, but I do have hopes that it could be the last significant one I buy for a long time. Believe it or not, I'm not a gear junkie, even though I'm here! I'd love to be able to settle down with a virtual orchestra and take myself off the market.


----------



## Dave Connor

Fleer said:


> Don’t ask Google. Don’t.


I know it’s tough. Folks get confused. Particularly within the context of a 108 page thread on a single library recorded at the BBC. Add to that my discussing articulations right after an articulation list is released and yes: People may have no clue what you’re referencing if you type BBC. I get that. Spicc, Stacc, Purcell, Strings... Those terms are interchangeable with sound fx samples and perhaps even snow boards. Who can know? I’ll keep up my experiment though, in the spirit of musicians helping sound designers.


----------



## Dave Connor

synthetic said:


> Also, is anyone seriously thinking "this is the last sample library I'll ever buy?" If so, realize you are reading "Sample Talk" on VI-control so that is probably not the case.


Haha! I read that as “Sample Tank” and thought it made your point even better.


----------



## lp59burst

STec said:


> Hey Spitfire, the Harp is not a percussion instrument!


Clearly you've never seen/heard me play one...


----------



## jamieboo

Sorry to bump my own post, but does anyone have any thoughts on this?...



jamieboo said:


> I've only ever used EW orchestras, so have no idea how Spitfire have previously handled such things, but I'm wondering about playable runs and things like that for the more agile instruments (flutes, violins, etc).
> EW Hollywood Orchestra has 'Run Simulator' patches for such moments, but I see there is nothing obviously comparable to that in the articulation list.
> Any ideas?


----------



## zolhof

Denkii said:


> May I Ask what I am looking at?
> It is shiny...what is it?
> Do I want it?



Sure man! It's a controller app based on Open Stage Control. I had to come up with an all-in-one solution after we switched to AVB, so OSC was a natural choice. We are able to control the entire studio with any touch device. It also does MIDI, allowing full communication with Cubase, including dynamic track selection and articulations/CC. It's web-based, hence the streamlined look that I put a lot of thought into.

The composer I assist atm is not a fan of gear cluttering up his desk and asked me to include a shortcut management system as well, similar to the Stream Deck but with dropdown menus, modal windows, dynamic lists and MIDI/OSC integration. It's in a whole different level of what the Elgato can do, though I still miss the physical buttons.

I'm going way off topic here but do check OSC, it's free and awesome.


----------



## dzilizzi

jamieboo said:


> Sorry to bump my own post, but does anyone have any thoughts on this?...


I haven't really tried making runs with SSO yet, but others do it so I would think it is quite possible. It may just take more work than using a run maker. I would probably use the longs articulations because it should flow without being too legato-y.


----------



## Adam Takacs

I work with Cubase Artist. 
The VST rack can handle 32 plugins.
So if I understand it well if I'd like to make a full BBC SO template I need to buy
Vienna Ensemble Pro. (?)
It's not a bad thing, but an additional € 195 outlay.
I didn't need it so far, because with Kontakt I can use the maximum of virtual instrument stereo channels allowed by Cubase Artist.
Of course that doesn't change my decision, BBC SO seems too good to miss.


----------



## al_net77

The real nuisance of having so many mics choice in a relative big template is that when you want to change the mics af *all* tracks/instruments you have to do it one by one... Maybe the new app can "centralize" it?


----------



## christianhenson

dzilizzi said:


> I haven't really tried making runs with SSO yet, but others do it so I would think it is quite possible. It may just take more work than using a run maker. I would probably use the longs articulations because it should flow without being too legato-y.



A lot of people aren't aware of the massive range of runs articulations in Albion ONE?

I use trems with shorts, but also trills are great at making runs, that way your orchestrator can see what you're actually trying to make and your director gets a good idea of how the blurring effect of an ensembles works.


----------



## Zedcars

al_net77 said:


> The real nuisance of having so many mics choice in a relative big template is that when you want to change the mics af *all* tracks/instruments you have to do it one by one... Maybe the new app can "centralize" it?


Yeah, very good point. You would need a ‘mothership’ plugin could talk to the other ‘satellite’ plug-ins in much the same way iZotope Neutron 3 and Mix Assistant does.


----------



## christianhenson

Zedcars said:


> Yeah, very good point. You would need a ‘mothership’ plugin could talk to the other ‘satellite’ plug-ins in much the same way iZotope Neutron 3 and Mix Assistant does.



Yes was thinking about this today... I think there's a few different ways we may be able to help here in future updates.


----------



## tomosane

@christianhenson Can you say at this point whether it will be possible to only install some subset of the mic positions to conserve SSD space?

(Sorry if this has already been discussed, the thread is too long at this point to look through it)


----------



## José Herring

After 108 pages of indepth critique I'm going to chime in with the most profound post.

I really like it.


----------



## muk

Concur with @Dave Connor. For classical music more variations for the short articulations would be needed. Several lenghts of tenuto would be nice. As the sound of the library leans towards that direction, rather than a Hollywood film sound, it would have been cool if the list of articulations had reflected that. Instead, about half the articulations are effects typically used in filmscores (sul pont, harmonics, flautando etc.). In classical scores they appear very rarely. That being said, the articulations list contains most of the bread and butter, and is rather comprehensive for the price.


----------



## Denkii

zolhof said:


> Sure man! It's a controller app based on Open Stage Control. I had to come up with an all-in-one solution after we switched to AVB, so OSC was a natural choice. We are able to control the entire studio with any touch device. It also does MIDI, allowing full communication with Cubase, including dynamic track selection and articulations/CC. It's web-based, hence the streamlined look that I put a lot of thought into.
> 
> The composer I assist atm is not a fan of gear cluttering up his desk and asked me to include a shortcut management system as well, similar to the Stream Deck but with dropdown menus, modal windows, dynamic lists and MIDI/OSC integration. It's in a whole different level of what the Elgato can do, though I still miss the physical buttons.
> 
> I'm going way off topic here but do check OSC, it's free and awesome.


Thanks for the explanation!
It's way too sophisticated for my little brain but it sounds really cool.
Good job!


----------



## redlester

Dave Connor said:


> And yes, I am hoping BBC becomes the acronym for this library as it won’t be confused with anything else; is shorter, and of course hipper.



I can see it now, a few years on from now... Spitfire BBC 2, BBC 3 & BBC 4.
All the BBC's will be known as The Reith Orchestra.


----------



## Bluemount Score

redlester said:


> I can see it now, a few years on from now... Spitfire BBC 2, BBC 3 & BBC 4.
> All the BBC's will be known as The Reith Orchestra.


...and this is just the beginning!


----------



## Ihnoc

tadam said:


> I work with Cubase Artist.
> The VST rack can handle 32 plugins.
> So if I understand it well if I'd like to make a full BBC SO template I need to buy
> Vienna Ensemble Pro. (?)
> It's not a bad thing, but an additional € 195 outlay.
> I didn't need it so far, because with Kontakt I can use the maximum of virtual instrument stereo channels allowed by Cubase Artist.
> Of course that doesn't change my decision, BBC SO seems too good to miss.



Note that Cubase Artist also supports 32 Rack Instruments, so you could create MIDI tracks to feed to those instead, effectively given you 64 possible Instruments within Artist.

In your case I would recommend saving your money for Cubase Pro, instead of Vienna Ensemble. A lot of people here are looking at the large multi library template on single machine or slaves as use cases, which might be overkill for what you need? I found ditching Vienna Ensemble very liberating, personally. Expression maps in Pro are vastly more valuable to me than the routing afforded by Ensemble.



tomosane said:


> @christianhenson Can you say at this point whether it will be possible to only install some subset of the mic positions to conserve SSD space?
> 
> (Sorry if this has already been discussed, the thread is too long at this point to look through it)



I've made the assumption, but I would love to know this too.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Having listened (again!) to the Andy Blaney demo...those string legatos sound quite flexible with a turn of speed. Add an extensive yet sensible set of articulations, the mics, the new player...
...well, with typical British understatement, I'm quite excited.

Appropriately, my first use of the library will be to do a mockup of the BBC news theme, circa 1990.


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> ...well, with typical British understatement, I'm quite excited.



Be honest. You’re about to have a cup of tea and I think you like it!


----------



## jonvog

what is your guess about the hollywood-compatibility? i like the overall sound very much, but i am wondering, if it's possible to achieve the more modern film-style sound as well...


----------



## mikeh-375

I remember that BBC theme Alex, a much better theme than the surreptitious disco track they have now,
Wow 110 pages, is it a record?, do we need to prorogue this thread? Will there be any news on dynamic layers before Oct 31st?


----------



## redlester

The original Grandstand theme would be good!


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> Be honest. You’re about to have a cup of tea and I think you like it!


Indeed, old chap. Reading that articulation list has me all of a flutter again. A nice cup of tea (and a couple of custard creams) might just be the ticket to calm things down. 



mikeh-375 said:


> Wow 110 pages, is it a record?, do we need to prorogue this thread? Will there be any news on dynamic layers before Oct 31st?


Well, the PM might be locked up and lorries backed up to Paris, but they'll be a new flagship Spitfire library! Tally ho!


----------



## dzilizzi

christianhenson said:


> A lot of people aren't aware of the massive range of runs articulations in Albion ONE?
> 
> I use trems with shorts, but also trills are great at making runs, that way your orchestrator can see what you're actually trying to make and your director gets a good idea of how the blurring effect of an ensembles works.


Thank you! I will have to try that. 

And I seem to have missed the runs in Albion ONE as well. I will go check it out....


----------



## Bluemount Score

110 pages and this is just the beginning


I'll stop now.


----------



## Bluemount Score

dzilizzi said:


> I seem to have missed the runs in Albion ONE as well. I will go check it out....


You should! They are pretty hidden. There are quite some string runs as well as woodwind runs in the legacy folder (if I remember correctly).


----------



## jamieboo

Meetyhtan said:


> You should! They are pretty hidden. There are quite some string runs as well as woodwind runs in the legacy folder (if I remember correctly).



Interesting to know there are options in Albion and SSO, but I'm wondering how we suspect BBCSO will handle such passages. And if they have to be cobbled together by blending trems and trills etc I wonder if Hollywood Orchestra is still the better option if striving for swirly Williamsy music.


----------



## Bluemount Score

jamieboo said:


> Interesting to know there are options in Albion and SSO, but I'm wondering how we suspect BBCSO will handle such passages. And if they have to be cobbled together by blending trems and trills etc I wonder if Hollywood Orchestra is still the better option if striving for swirly Williamsy music.


Can't comment on that. At this state, nobody can (but the Spitfire team).
However, looking at the articulation list, there seem to be dedicated fast run legato patches, for piccolo and flute at least.


----------



## synthetic

jonvog said:


> what is your guess about the hollywood-compatibility? i like the overall sound very much, but i am wondering, if it's possible to achieve the more modern film-style sound as well...



If you're looking for 12 horns bleating away, this is probably not the library for you.


----------



## Bluemount Score

jonvog said:


> what is your guess about the hollywood-compatibility? i like the overall sound very much, but i am wondering, if it's possible to achieve the more modern film-style sound as well...


I'm not british, neither I know BBC too good. But what I've seen and heard, this orchestra is used to make lots of music for film which might indicate it could be overall great for cinematic writing.
Isn't the score for e.g. Planet Earth (II) played by the BBC orchestra?


----------



## redlester

christianhenson said:


> Yes was thinking about this today... I think there's a few different ways we may be able to help here in future updates.



The UAD Studer A800 plugin also has this facility to synchronise settings over several instances on different tracks, so it's definitely do-able. Although that and Neutron are effects plugins, not sure I've ever seen it on an instrument plugin. Yet.


----------



## 5Lives

The more I think about this, the more I like the concept. Some people relish the freedom of piecemeal-ing their template together from various developers and libraries. Strings from X, solo strings from Y, woodwinds from Z, etc. I personally find that somewhat annoying and cumbersome - especially when it comes to blending it all together. BBCSO will finally be a holistic solution, delivered all at once (vs. over years like Cinematic Studio). Hollywood Orchestra did this but I’m not a fan of their approach to patches and the Play engine.


----------



## rudi

redlester said:


> The original Grandstand theme would be good!



I wonder what sample library they used?


----------



## PaulBrimstone

redlester said:


> The original Grandstand theme would be good!



This looks like a job for @alexballmusic !


----------



## MaxOctane

5Lives said:


> Strings from X, solo strings from Y, woodwinds from Z, etc. I personally find that somewhat annoying and cumbersome - especially when it comes to blending it all together.



I like Berlin Inspire 1+2 for this. All instruments sit well together.


----------



## sostenuto

redlester said:


> The UAD Studer A800 plugin also has this facility to synchronise settings over several instances on different tracks, so it's definitely do-able. Although that and Neutron are effects plugins, not sure I've ever seen it on an instrument plugin. Yet.



All credit to UAD top-tier products, but are there respected alternatives to Studer A800 as for other top UAD plugins ? Neutron 3 (Demo) very new to me, but interested if capable solution per this Thread.


----------



## Zedcars

Hello,

I’ve made a countdown timer for the release/activation day...

https://www.arewethere.yt/Spitfire-Audio-BBC-Symphony-Orchestra/105798.htm

I’m not sure what time on the 24th October will actually receive our activation codes, but set it for midnight BST. I can amend the time if anyone knows?

Also, I hope I’m not contravening any rights issues here by using the background image (I can delete it if I am).


----------



## Michael Antrum

Th


rudi said:


> I wonder what sample library they used?



The Frank Bough Composer Toolkit.


----------



## Adam Takacs

Ihnoc said:


> Note that Cubase Artist also supports 32 Rack Instruments, so you could create MIDI tracks to feed to those instead, effectively given you 64 possible Instruments within Artist.
> 
> In your case I would recommend saving your money for Cubase Pro, instead of Vienna Ensemble. A lot of people here are looking at the large multi library template on single machine or slaves as use cases, which might be overkill for what you need? I found ditching Vienna Ensemble very liberating, personally. Expression maps in Pro are vastly more valuable to me than the routing afforded by Ensemble.



Great tip!
I didn't know I can use 32 instrument tracks and 32 rack VST plugins, independently from each other.
So I can do the full BBC SO template in Artist, thank you so much!


----------



## barteredbride

5Lives said:


> The more I think about this, the more I like the concept. Some people relish the freedom of piecemeal-ing their template together from various developers and libraries. Strings from X, solo strings from Y, woodwinds from Z, etc. I personally find that somewhat annoying and cumbersome - especially when it comes to blending it all together. BBCSO will finally be a holistic solution, delivered all at once (vs. over years like Cinematic Studio). Hollywood Orchestra did this but I’m not a fan of their approach to patches and the Play engine.


But...and forgive my naivety, you can already do this with something like Spitfire Symphony Orchestra. 

Or am I missing something?

They both had to be sampled over a number of months, by section, and it's pretty much the same instrumentation.

Apart from (obviously) the different space and players, how is this so different?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

barteredbride said:


> Apart from (obviously) the different space and players, how is this so different?



For starters, it has many different mic positions, and doesn't need Kontakt.


----------



## jamwerks

Not sure we will be wanting the same mic's used across all instruments anyway. Yeah surely same mic's for the 5 string parts, but then WW's would often have a different amount of close mic, and Brass yet still a different amount. So not sure we want to a centralized control on this.

If I like one of the (2) mix mic's, I'll probably use that for strings, with everybody else getting tree mic full up & close mic's on CC automation for per instrument control.


----------



## redlester

barteredbride said:


> But...and forgive my naivety, you can already do this with something like Spitfire Symphony Orchestra.
> 
> Or am I missing something?
> 
> They both had to be sampled over a number of months, by section, and it's pretty much the same instrumentation.
> 
> Apart from (obviously) the different space and players, how is this so different?



The price!


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Hello,
> 
> I’ve made a countdown timer for the release/activation day...
> 
> https://www.arewethere.yt/Spitfire-Audio-BBC-Symphony-Orchestra/105798.htm
> 
> I’m not sure what time on the 24th October will actually receive our activation codes, but set it for midnight BST. I can amend the time if anyone knows?
> 
> Also, I hope I’m not contravening any rights issues here by using the background image (I can delete it if I am).



Think most new Spitfire products go live around late afternoon or early evening, at least in the recent past.


----------



## Zero&One

barteredbride said:


> Apart from (obviously) the different space and players, how is this so different?



For me, they are the 2 main reasons to buy.
Also the price, no Kontakt, templates and other community offerings.


----------



## christianhenson

Having a single universal core that other people have is the biggest selling point for me, I'll get my orchestrator a copy and boom, finish a cue, bam, send it over. I give my assistant a copy, need it track laying, boom bang it over with all stems prepared.... all I have to do is include audio. It means if I'm working on a big series and need someone offsite to make 1m43 from ep1 into 7m11 in ep 7 then all I need to check is if they have a copy of BBCSO (oh and a good sine wave).


----------



## redlester

James H said:


> For me, they are the 2 main reasons to buy.
> Also the price, no Kontakt, templates and other community offerings.



Yeah but apart from the room, the players, the price, the GUI, the templates and the other community offerings....what have Spitfire ever done for us?! (Don't say "the aqueduct").


----------



## Garry

christianhenson said:


> Having a single universal core that other people have is the biggest selling point for me, I'll get my orchestrator a copy and boom, finish a cue, bam, send it over. I give my assistant a copy, need it track laying, boom bang it over with all stems prepared.... all I have to do is include audio. It means if I'm working on a big series and need someone offsite to make 1m43 from ep1 into 7m11 in ep 7 then all I need to check is if they have a copy of BBCSO (oh and a good sine wave).


For me as a hobbyist, this makes sense that it would be extremely useful to composers and adds a lot of value, but it's something I'll personally never need. However, the potential universality of the platform is still the main selling point to me, but it depends on the extent to which it will be utilized, both by Spitfire and by the user community.

If Spitfire release demos, tutorials, etc on this platform, then I can load it up, and boom, I have exactly what they have on their screen - that's enormously valuable. They have mentioned several times that this is their intention, and what gives me confidence that they will follow through on this sort of sharing and community engagement? 1. LABS. 2 PianoBook. 3. BBC: education/entertainment is their stated purpose, so the collaboration with Spitfire, who have followed a similar ethos, is really exciting. Christian - I wonder if you can, either here or in a future vlog, give us a little more detail of your plans in this regard?

So the other aspect is the community: rather than releasing member compositions as audio files, people could, in theory at least, share their Logic BBSCO files. Perhaps not your latest and greatest, but snippets, illustrating a particular feature/progression/articulation. This would really stimulate the community if it happens, but I'm much less confident of this, based on previous discussions here of sharing such information.

I'm not sure this will happen on VI-C; ok, realistically, it will never happen here! A composers' forum, with professional musicians, is probably not the place, because the concern of plagiarism will be too great. But look at PianoBook, where people are sharing their own frickin' pianos! Painstakingly sampled, and freely shared, for the enjoyment of the community. I could imagine something similar, in which the community share musical ideas as BBCSO files, and other hobbyist composers, adapt them and re-share, and something interesting happens as the result of such collaboration, that wouldn't have happened with a single composer. Perhaps think of it along the lines of Eric Whitacre's online choir!

My other hope is YouTube: people like Ashton Gleckman have generously shared midi/Cubase/Logic files for their mockups; might this platform encourage Ashton and others to use BBCSO and share their files for educational purposes? I guess we'll see...


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Wow . 111 pages and counting . Did anyone convert or make a template for this for Cubase ? 

Consider doing one myself, but so many choices - articulation per midi track, multi, Ve Pro on host, ve pro on slave...... too much choice is definately not conducive to creative production ! 

What does the community thing , separate midi track per articulation or multis? I am more interested in the final composition but realise many do like the score at the end to be uncluttered with key switches


----------



## Alex Fraser

barteredbride said:


> But...and forgive my naivety, you can already do this with something like Spitfire Symphony Orchestra.
> 
> Or am I missing something?
> 
> They both had to be sampled over a number of months, by section, and it's pretty much the same instrumentation.
> 
> Apart from (obviously) the different space and players, how is this so different?


The concept has been around for a while. But to put things in perspective, this is the last "orchestra in a box" I purchased, around 10-15 years ago:






That's MOTU's Symphonic Instrument. Fun for the time, some limited articulations, no mics, no legato...and clocking in at 8gb.

I've always loved the concept of an orchestral library recorded in one place, designed to work as a cohesive whole. I hate attempting to "glue" different products together. That's why I brought the weirdly red thing above and why I'm looking forward to seeing what BBCSO can do. I reckon it'll be the ultimate example of the "all in" orchestra to date. Spitfire seem to be taking the concept and going several steps further.

Bring it.


----------



## Zero&One

Garry said:


> This would really stimulate the community if it happens, but I'm much less confident of this, based on previous discussions here of sharing such information.
> 
> I'm not sure this will happen on VI-C; ok, realistically, it will never happen here!



You are probably right, but we could change that is the other answer? 
Realistically you would need 2 threads. One for links/files only and the other for discussion and reference the #post number from there. Otherwise the community thread would quickly become a mess between files/discussion and quickly fall apart.


----------



## FinGael

christianhenson said:


> Having a single universal core that other people have is the biggest selling point for me, I'll get my orchestrator a copy and boom, finish a cue, bam, send it over. I give my assistant a copy, need it track laying, boom bang it over with all stems prepared.... all I have to do is include audio. It means if I'm working on a big series and need someone offsite to make 1m43 from ep1 into 7m11 in ep 7 then all I need to check is if they have a copy of BBCSO (oh and a good sine wave).



My suggestion: if possible, you could include a sine wave patch in the package too (as a tool), for the process to be as fluid as possible.


----------



## staypuft

Daniel James said:


> But what happens if they don't?



You beg at Twitch huh 
jk



Daniel James said:


> We don't all have a spare couple of grand laying around to get our orchestrator and assistant a copy, I guess it helps when you own the company huh



Spitfire libraries were never aimed at the hobbyist market. A real working composer is used to much higher figures. Back in the day it would cost you no less than $30,000 to have copies of Symphonic Cube for your small team of one assistant and one orchestrator. $749 is a bargain for what we are getting now.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Daniel James said:


> But what happens if they don't? We don't all have a spare couple of grand laying around to get our orchestrator and assistant a copy, I guess it helps when you own the company huh
> 
> -DJ



Small beans these days, especially for a working composer (just another tool of the trade).


----------



## yellowtone

What do folks think of how BBCSO sounds in the demos and how this library might layer with other SA products (BHCT is of particular interest for me), or other libraries (OT Berlin series for example)? I really found the comparison track and YouTube video @christianhenson did for BHCT and SSO (with SCS) to be super helpful in thinking about these libraries, and I'm curious about something like this for BBCSO. This would be helpful to understand how libraries we already have might interact with BBCSO, and also help inform future purchase decisions - such as maybe wanting additional articulations for solo instruments and how a relevant library would sound with this new library.

For reference, the BHCT/SSO layer video:


----------



## Garry

yellowtone said:


> What do folks think of how BBCSO sounds in the demos and how this library might layer with other SA products (BHCT is of particular interest for me), or other libraries (OT Berlin series for example)? I really found the comparison track and YouTube video @christianhenson did for BHCT and SSO (with SCS) to be super helpful in thinking about these libraries, and I'm curious about something like this for BBCSO. This would be helpful to understand how libraries we already have might interact with BBCSO, and also help inform future purchase decisions - such as maybe wanting additional articulations for solo instruments and how a relevant library would sound with this new library.
> 
> For reference, the BHCT/SSO layer video:



Yes, yes, yes; completely agree!! Need many more comparisons - that is key to making decisions on these libraries.


----------



## Spitfire Team

NEW VIDEO!

Christian takes us through the creative process behind writing his score for the BBC Symphony Orchestra trailer.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

yellowtone said:


> What do folks think of how BBCSO sounds in the demos



The demo "A New Chapter" is what has sold me so far on purchasing BBC. My only concern (with the sounds) at this point is the brass. In particular, the opening brass at 0:11 in the "Your Majesty" demo. I don't know if it's just the programming, but it sounds really synthetic to my ears. I'm anxious to hear a walkthrough.


----------



## Sovereign

Spitfire Team said:


> NEW VIDEO!
> 
> Christian takes us through the creative process behind writing his score for the BBC Symphony Orchestra trailer.



Gives good insight into the sounds used, I think it sounds awesome.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Spitfire Team said:


> NEW VIDEO!
> 
> Christian takes us through the creative process behind writing his score for the BBC Symphony Orchestra trailer.




That whole project was only 5.29GB with one mic position? That is promising!! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Wolfie2112 said:


> That whole project was only 5.29GB with one mic position? That is promising!! Thanks for sharing.


Yep - considering CH used mostly "all in one" patches. That's the bit that made me sit up in my seat. Impressive stuff all round.


----------



## jamwerks

Room sounds interesting!


----------



## KEM

Garry said:


> For me as a hobbyist, this makes sense that it would be extremely useful to composers and adds a lot of value, but it's something I'll personally never need. However, the potential universality of the platform is still the main selling point to me, but it depends on the extent to which it will be utilized, both by Spitfire and by the user community.
> 
> If Spitfire release demos, tutorials, etc on this platform, then I can load it up, and boom, I have exactly what they have on their screen - that's enormously valuable. They have mentioned several times that this is their intention, and what gives me confidence that they will follow through on this sort of sharing and community engagement? 1. LABS. 2 PianoBook. 3. BBC: education/entertainment is their stated purpose, so the collaboration with Spitfire, who have followed a similar ethos, is really exciting. Christian - I wonder if you can, either here or in a future vlog, give us a little more detail of your plans in this regard?
> 
> So the other aspect is the community: rather than releasing member compositions as audio files, people could, in theory at least, share their Logic BBSCO files. Perhaps not your latest and greatest, but snippets, illustrating a particular feature/progression/articulation. This would really stimulate the community if it happens, but I'm much less confident of this, based on previous discussions here of sharing such information.
> 
> I'm not sure this will happen on VI-C; ok, realistically, it will never happen here! A composers' forum, with professional musicians, is probably not the place, because the concern of plagiarism will be too great. But look at PianoBook, where people are sharing their own frickin' pianos! Painstakingly sampled, and freely shared, for the enjoyment of the community. I could imagine something similar, in which the community share musical ideas as BBCSO files, and other hobbyist composers, adapt them and re-share, and something interesting happens as the result of such collaboration, that wouldn't have happened with a single composer. Perhaps think of it along the lines of Eric Whitacre's online choir!
> 
> My other hope is YouTube: people like Ashton Gleckman have generously shared midi/Cubase/Logic files for their mockups; might this platform encourage Ashton and others to use BBCSO and share their files for educational purposes? I guess we'll see...



Ashton said he isn’t getting it haha


----------



## BassClef

Quoting Christian from the video, after reinforcing that this release is ONLY the beginning... "Momentous announcements coming early next year!"


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Fair enough, but IMO $750 is hardly a deal breaker for any serious hobbyist or pro alike. Jeez, I remember shelling out $1500 ten years ago for the old EWQL Composer Collection. When you look at all of the top all-in-one orchestral libraries out there (of this quality), it's competitive.


----------



## Garry

Spitfire Team said:


> NEW VIDEO!
> 
> Christian takes us through the creative process behind writing his score for the BBC Symphony Orchestra trailer.



I'm left with only one question: where do I put all my other libraries now that I'll no longer be needing them!

I've been eagerly looking forward to this, and it did not disappoint - that was [email protected]£%in' amazing. Beautiful sound, but incredibly, with so little needed in addition - touch of reverb here and there, a dash of EQ - but next to nothing. You can really see how it allows you to just focus on the composition, and let the tech get out of your way. Love it.

Finger poised over 'pre-order', but the rationalist in me won't pull the trigger until we get the full walkthrough, but realistically, it's a done deal!

And... one more time: thank you Christian. I know I'm harping on this point (so I've put my FULL comment in the drama zone thread, "A Plea to Spitfire"), but here we got the first confirmation on releasing the demo Midi/Logic files. If anyone is interested in the discussion, you'll find it in the Drama zone, because there were plenty who disagreed vehemently that the request for Midi/Logic files was unlikely to happen, not technically feasible, unfair to the originating artist, even 'entitled' for merely asking the question. *But you Christian, said 'Great idea', and wow, how you have delivered*. Thank you!


----------



## Garry

KEM said:


> Ashton said he isn’t getting it haha


Yeah right, that's what they all say!!  He'll break!!


----------



## pawelmorytko

Does the harp glissandi fx patch cover major/minor scale glisses in up/down/up+down motion?


----------



## axb312

Spitfire Team said:


> NEW VIDEO!
> 
> Christian takes us through the creative process behind writing his score for the BBC Symphony Orchestra trailer.




@christianhenson Would you mind posting a little snippet of the horns A4 going through the dynamics? I believe you covered most of it in the video except the highest dynamic...


----------



## meradium

Are you really sure this was the RAM footprint all in? To me it sounded more like the size of the shown patch given that he had loaded all available samples.... that would add up though with that many instances...

**

Lust listened again... so apparently really all on and shared across the instances? Kind of acting like Kontakts Sample Server? That would be pretty cool!


----------



## yellowtone

meradium said:


> Lust listened again... so apparently really all on and shared across the instances? Kind of acting like Kontakts Sample Server? That would be pretty cool!



I too have Lust listening when I watch this video...


----------



## Architekton

Maybe next video will show some runs and brass section more detailed?


----------



## AndyP

Alex Fraser said:


> The concept has been around for a while. But to put things in perspective, this is the last "orchestra in a box" I purchased, around 10-15 years ago:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's MOTU's Symphonic Instrument. Fun for the time, some limited articulations, no mics, no legato...and clocking in at 8gb.
> 
> I've always loved the concept of an orchestral library recorded in one place, designed to work as a cohesive whole. I hate attempting to "glue" different products together. That's why I brought the weirdly red thing above and why I'm looking forward to seeing what BBCSO can do. I reckon it'll be the ultimate example of the "all in" orchestra to date. Spitfire seem to be taking the concept and going several steps further.
> 
> Bring it.


That was my first or second Orchestra Library and I still have it ... somewhere ... but I guess it doesn't work anymore on my systems. Yeah, the concept was great, but the library was really full of bugs.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Daniel James said:


> Indeed! This isn’t something I need and had no intention to buy it personally (although I am more interested nowadays to give it a go) but my followers really wanted me to do a first look as they appreciated my HZ Strings one, so I said I would if they wanted to fund raise it, and so far they seem into it, and I am happy to do so.
> 
> Secondly yes the price of sample libraries has dropped considerably but that’s sort of irrelevant, all that matters is how much it costs, and for many of the people who watch my streams that is still a lot of money. Sure it’s not a lot for people like us who do this professionally and already have careers but unless I am mistaken this is also pitched as a great starting point for new composers, many of whom watch my content and requested I cover this library. So again it doesn’t matter how expensive samples used to be, all my viewers care about is how much it is now. (Keep in mind there is competition with full orchestral offerings and more than half the price, so my viewers are curious to see if this is worth the extra cash).
> 
> So that’s actually going to be the point of my first look I guess, is this for pros who will have no problem with buying a copy for every member of their team. Or is it for new composers who may have to save up for a bit to jump in AND is it worth doing so, or looking elsewhere. There are more composers out there who are not as well off as the esteemed members on this forum and I try to look out for them too.
> 
> -DJ


Sounds like a plan to me.

But DJ...a day to shoot the walkthrough, followed by a solid week of "spirited" discussion on the forum and a possible rebuttal video..

Surely it would be easier and less stress to buy the library yourself! 😂😉


----------



## AEF

Seems to have a lot of what I like about SCS and SSS without the things I dislike. Very warm sound. Id love to hear more shorts and more linear as opposed to chordal stuff, but wow Im really really impressed.


----------



## Denkii

Paul Jelfs said:


> Wow . 111 pages and counting . Did anyone convert or make a template for this for Cubase ?
> 
> Consider doing one myself, but so many choices - articulation per midi track, multi, Ve Pro on host, ve pro on slave...... too much choice is definately not conducive to creative production !
> 
> What does the community thing , separate midi track per articulation or multis? I am more interested in the final composition but realise many do like the score at the end to be uncluttered with key switches


+1 for multis, no VePro


----------



## CT

After the Studio series, I was most concerned about hearing the horns and oboes here... they don't seem to disappoint, especially that horn section.


----------



## Fleer

Whatever happens or surmises, this Spitfire BBC is pretty pretty good.


----------



## Zedcars

As has been widely reported, the UK government was forced to release highly sensitive information about Operation Yellowhammer - the plans for a 'No Deal Brexit' 'worst case' scenario. However, this document contained redacted paragraphs. I have been in touch with a high ranking government official who has today leaked redacted paragraph 15:



> There is predicted to be a shortage of sample libraries leading to panic buying. Local authorities have been advised to stockpile sample libraries in the event of a no deal Brexit. In particular, Spitfire Audio will be hardest hit due to extraordinarily high demand. If the public cannot obtain a copy of BBCSO library there will be widespread unrest and civil disobedience across the country. Rationing is likely with only 1 articulation permitted per person. Those with confirmed sample library addiction, or members of the SAA (Spitfire Audio Anonymous) will be permitted 2 articulations, although this must only be administered intravenously by a specialist doctor. In extreme emergencies rectal administration may be necessary.


----------



## ridgero

I'm pretty sure that the Spitfire BBC SO will be the standard for many composers in the future. I can imagine that there will be another version for a chamber sized orchestra in about 2 years.

I am looking forward to working with other composers online. The best thing: Without much effort


----------



## Zero&One

Sounds excellent, that countdown timer can’t move fast enough


----------



## Lee Blaske

I think all of it is going to be impressive. The percussion really stood out to me in this video. I'm pretty persnickety about timpani, and while I have a LOT of timpani samples, I stick to just a few. What I'm hearing here might rival my current go-to.


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> As has been widely reported, the UK government was forced to release highly sensitive information about Operation Yellowhammer - the plans for a 'No Deal Brexit' 'worst case' scenario. However, this document contained redacted paragraphs. I have been in touch with a high ranking government official who has today leaked redacted paragraph 15:


But, but, but what if you don't live in the UK?


----------



## JEPA

how is the orchestral positioning? in the video I am hearing violins right side also or lots in the middle of the stage? (not only but also)


----------



## Portland

Totally new to all of this, as BBCSO will be my first orchestral VI purchase. (save for some NI Essentials included with Komplete, which are...um...)

What Spitfire is doing here seems pretty special to me. I'm curious if there are any other companies doing this kind of meticulous sampling, who are engaged with the composer community to the same degree as Christian and the gang? My gut instinct tells me probably not. I'm not trying to come off as a blind fanboy, I've never even used any of their products. But I just get a good feeling watching that demo video; Christian's excitement is palpable and you can tell he has a passion for all of this. And I know he's a good salesman, and I'm falling for the hype and all that. I just want to express my excitement as well. This library sounds damn fine!


----------



## Saxer

Everybody praising the library here as a new standard in orchestral sampling... but it isn't even out yet? I also preordered and have high hopes but I'll wait until I have it under my fingers before doxology.


----------



## CT

Portland said:


> Totally new to all of this, as BBCSO will be my first orchestral VI purchase. (save for some NI Essentials included with Komplete, which are...um...)
> 
> What Spitfire is doing here seems pretty special to me. I'm curious if there are any other companies doing this kind of meticulous sampling, who are engaged with the composer community to the same degree as Christian and the gang? My gut instinct tells me probably not. I'm not trying to come off as a blind fanboy, I've never even used any of their products. But I just get a good feeling watching that demo video; Christian's excitement is palpable and you can tell he has a passion for all of this. And I know he's a good salesman, and I'm falling for the hype and all that. I just want to express my excitement as well. This library sounds damn fine!



I think it's fair to say that Spitfire is good people. No doubt.


----------



## jamwerks

I'm a bit surprised by how short the reverb seems to be at MV and how little of it there is. As such it will definitely be manageable, but will most of us say its a beautiful sounding room for sample recording? I hope so! It's amazing to me just how much different a sonic signature each recording space has.

When the recent Studio series came out, I remember "asking" SF (indirectly, here on the forum) if the B room at Air was really the best place in all of England they could have found to record such a library? Judging only from the numerous videos, I thought that it sounded exceptionally unpleasant. That room has extremily reflective walls, so much so that there is often a rug on the floor to compensate.

Anyway, so SF wanted to record new libraries in a scoring stage. BBC wanted to do a project with SF. That's a happy coincidense already. But does it just so happen to also be the best sounding room possible for sample recording, the rare pearl? I hope so! I'm intrigued by what I've heard so far!


----------



## Alex Fraser

jamwerks said:


> I'm a bit surprised by how short the reverb seems to be at MV and how little of it there is. As such it will definitely be manageable, but will most of us say its a beautiful sounding room for sample recording? I hope so! It's amazing to me just how much different a sonic signature each recording space has.
> 
> When the recent Studio series came out, I remember "asking" SF (indirectly, here on the forum) if the B room at Air was really the best place in all of England they could have found to record such a library? Judging only from the numerous videos, I thought that it sounded exceptionally unpleasant. That room has extremily reflective walls, so much so that there is often a rug on the floor to compensate.
> 
> Anyway, so SF wanted to record new libraries in a scoring stage. BBC wanted to do a project with SF. That's a happy coincidense already. But does it just so happen to also be the best sounding room possible for sample recording, the rare pearl? I hope so! I'm intrigued by what I've heard so far!


There’s a lot of criticism of the Studio Series around these parts. I love it. It’s the “red headed stepchild” of the Spitfire lineup and does it’s own thing. Amazingly versatile for all manor of genres. If you use it exposed, it really needs ‘verb by design.


----------



## ed buller

Alex Fraser said:


> There’s a lot of criticism of the Studio Series around these parts. I love it. It’s the “red headed stepchild” of the Spitfire lineup and does it’s own thing. Amazingly versatile for all manor of genres. If you use it exposed, it really needs ‘verb by design.


Reverb works well with it. No that room at Air isn't great. I have avoided it over the years , although it does have one of the greatest mixing consoles ever made, but the Studio series isn't compromised by it at all.

best

ed


----------



## christianhenson

Yeah the studio series is like using a v-log profile in photography where you need to add a LUT. Its a raw tool that takes to production very well, EQ, reverbs, delays etc. Where the hall materials are much more fait accompli "don't like this sound, go elsewhere". 

Maida Vale is a nuts space because it gives everything you get from the Hall in the sense of scale whilst not having the huge tail caused by the enormous ceiling at Air. For me this means MV is both spring out of the box friendly and can handle a bit of production too.


----------



## synthetic

I'm really excited about what I'm hearing so far. And that room sounds perfect. The thing about having the Symphonic (Air) stuff in my template is that I need to make all of the other instruments sound like they're in that space. Even with the close mics, that cathedral is all over it. I'm glad to have that sound but excited to have something dryer.


----------



## Noeticus

christianhenson said:


> Yeah the studio series is like using a v-log profile in photography where you need to add a LUT. Its a raw tool that takes to production very well, EQ, reverbs, delays etc. Where the hall materials are much more fait accompli "don't like this sound, go elsewhere".
> 
> Maida Vale is a nuts space because it gives everything you get from the Hall in the sense of scale whilst not having the huge tail caused by the enormous ceiling at Air. For me this means MV is both spring out of the box friendly and can handle a bit of production too.



Ahh, but at Air there is a movable ceiling of sorts, that I assume you guys at Spitfire lowered until the reverb tail was close to 3 seconds. Yes, no...???


----------



## christianhenson

Yeah, its about halfway down usually for us.... but you can never get rid all of that air.


----------



## artomatic

Such an exciting time!
Just amazing that we'll all actually "own" and get to "conduct" the BBC SO!
Thanks Spitfire team and BBC for collaborating on this prodigious and most rewarding project!
And yes, that countdown timer is slowly ticking by...


----------



## dzilizzi

artomatic said:


> Such an exciting time!
> Just amazing that we'll all actually "own" and get to "conduct" the BBC SO!
> Thanks Spitfire team and BBC for collaborating on this prodigious and most rewarding project!
> And yes, that countdown timer is slowly ticking by...


Ooohh! Should I get a podium and baton???!!!??? 


Sorry couldn't resist.


----------



## rlw

Well Done @christainhenson. Loved seeing the creation of the trailer. Very moving. Magical! Thrilling actually.


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> But, but, but what if you don't live in the UK?


Thank your lucky stars?


----------



## lgmcben

Someone talked about 5.2gb BBC SO in the latest spitfire YouTube clip. Can anyone clarify what that means please? I'm not in a place where I can watch that clip right now(and maybe for a whole day today T_T)

Do you mean RAM usage? Or HDD space usage if you choose to download only 1 mic position(if that can be done)?


----------



## Jdiggity1

lgmcben said:


> Someone talked about 5.2gb BBC SO in the latest spitfire YouTube clip. Can anyone clarify what that means please? I'm not in a place where I can watch that clip right now(and maybe for a whole day today T_T)
> 
> Do you mean RAM usage? Or HDD space usage if you choose to download only 1 mic position(if that can be done)?


I'm led to believe that it was the RAM usage across all the instances of BBCSO that are loaded within the project.


----------



## Zedcars

Zedcars said:


> Thank your lucky stars?


Just to qualify my flippant comment above (and I hope you’ll forgive me for getting political); I love my country (UK). It’s a beautiful country with beautiful, kind people. But what is happening to it now is heartbreaking and frightening.

Amongst this turmoil, I think British companies like Spitfire are hugely important in showing how collaboration, openness, boldness and creativity are forces for good. Yes, Spitfire and this new library may be steeped in Britishness, but it is a Britishness that is both proud if its heritage, while also
openly welcoming teamwork within the community of composers across the globe, wherever or whomever they may be. Inclusivity and diversity make us stronger. I believe sharing ideas, working together and helping each other is what advances our species beyond our ancient tribal beginnings and transports us into a future of truly remarkable achievements.


----------



## Daniel James

Jdiggity1 said:


> I'm led to believe that it was the RAM usage across all the instances of BBCSO that are loaded within the project.



How does that work? Literally I mean. I loaded up 44 instances of HZ strings to get an idea of the footprint of the SF Player and the memory usage on the UI was showing 1.5gig but in the activity monitor it was adding more like 10-12gig. Are there any programmers who can explain it in an easy to understand way? I ran the same test with a comparable library in Kontakt and it was a similar actual footprint but the memory usage shown on the UI was per patch the way Kontakt usually does.

-DJ


----------



## mikeh-375

Zedcars said:


> As has been widely reported, the UK government was forced to release highly sensitive information about Operation Yellowhammer - the plans for a 'No Deal Brexit' 'worst case' scenario. However, this document contained redacted paragraphs. I have been in touch with a high ranking government official who has today leaked redacted paragraph 15:



Brilliant @Zedcars. Did your source mention anything about dynamic layers?


----------



## Jdiggity1

Daniel James said:


> How does that work? Literally I mean. I loaded up 44 instances of HZ strings to get an idea of the footprint of the SF Player and the memory usage on the UI was showing 1.5gig but in the activity monitor it was adding more like 10-12gig. Are there any programmers who can explain it in an easy to understand way? I ran the same test with a comparable library in Kontakt and it was a similar actual footprint but the memory usage shown on the UI was per patch the way Kontakt usually does.
> 
> -DJ



No idea. I'm just relaying the Chinese whispers I heard from here:



NoamL said:


> I asked @Karma about that and he said it's not per instance, it's global RAM - sort of like the PLAY engine it reports all the RAM being used by all instances I suppose.



And what Christian said in the video here: 

I assume it would be possible with a very small sample cache size, relying on SSD streaming speed, but I do notice the RAM footprint does move up and down _ever so slightly _throughout Christian's video (5.26 for woodwinds, 5.33 for strings, etc). So it might not be as simple as it's being made out to be.


----------



## Zedcars

mikeh-375 said:


> Brilliant @Zedcars. Did your source mention anything about dynamic layers?


Highly classified. MI5 is monitoring this thread. I have to tread carefully.


----------



## NoamL

Jdiggity1 said:


> No idea. I'm just relaying the Chinese whispers I heard from here:
> 
> 
> 
> And what Christian said in the video here:
> 
> I assume it would be possible with a very small sample cache size, relying on SSD streaming speed, but I do notice the RAM footprint does move up and down _ever so slightly _throughout Christian's video (5.26 for woodwinds, 5.33 for strings, etc). So it might not be as simple as it's being made out to be.



Yeh but we've since learned that not all the instruments were loaded during the Logic version of the playback; the audio is from the DigiP session.


----------



## Daniel James

Jdiggity1 said:


> No idea. I'm just relaying the Chinese whispers I heard from here:
> 
> 
> 
> And what Christian said in the video here:
> 
> I assume it would be possible with a very small sample cache size, relying on SSD streaming speed, but I do notice the RAM footprint does move up and down _ever so slightly _throughout Christian's video (5.26 for woodwinds, 5.33 for strings, etc). So it might not be as simple as it's being made out to be.




Yeah I noticed that on HZ strings too, they don't always match up so its hard to know what the number is. And I guess it changes depending on the preload buffer (can you change that in SF play, I think you can I just never have).

Also napkin math if you have 5300mb spread over 44 instances thats like 121meg per patch. And if I heard correctly in the video there is only one articulation and mic loaded per instance. I am curious to see how much it starts to add up when you bring in more stuff. Should be interesting to see how it gets on.

-DJ


----------



## Adam Takacs

Untuned percussion details have been added to the articulation list.


----------



## christianhenson

From our chief developer:

_"There are some parts that are shared between instances of the same plugin: the preload buffer (which is the main component) plus the pool of voices and stream buffers (this is a much smaller proportion). Then there is also a relatively small amount that is needed by each instance. The figure in the ui is the sum of these two. Which is why sometimes the values will be different in different instances. For example, an all in one might need a bit more than a preset with only one techniqu"_


----------



## gussunkri

If Paul, Christian, Spitfire take requests, I would love to have a slightly more detailed walkthrough than usual this time of the various mic positions. Perhaps in addition to Paul playing some shorts with various mic options, as he usually does in the walkthrough, you could have a short piece of music with a full orchestra and demonstrate the same snippet with various mixes and mics? Just from reading the list I find the range of choices somewhat bewildering. I tend to use just the tree mic, or the tree mic with some close, and it would be a shame not to use the various mics to their full potential. I guess, one of the major factors behind it being 600 GB in size is the large selection of mics so it would be nice to see how and why one would use them.


----------



## paulthomson

Hey Gussunkri - I just recorded a walkthru of mic positions yesterday - its being edited Monday so I think that should be available to watch on Tuesday. Its actually really fascinating seeing how the sound changes - there are a lot of options in here. 

Thanks!

Paul


----------



## rudi

Thanks @paulthomson and @christianhenson ... really looking forward to it!


----------



## Alex Fraser

tadam said:


> Untuned percussion details have been added to the articulation list.


Ah, sleigh bells. The final bit of the puzzle. I’m sold now.


----------



## gussunkri

paulthomson said:


> Hey Gussunkri - I just recorded a walkthru of mic positions yesterday - its being edited Monday so I think that should be available to watch on Tuesday. Its actually really fascinating seeing how the sound changes - there are a lot of options in here.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Paul


Fantastic! Looking forward to it!


----------



## gussunkri

EDIT: I see that this has now already been fixed.


******

Spitfire, the chat wasn't open on your homepage so I'll just add this here:

The articulation list for the untuned percussion looks really impressive. Just a minor bug report. I believe that the articulation list for Bass drum 1 and the cymbal may have been reversed. Right now you have the following:

*CYMBAL*

Hit
Hard Sticks
Hit Damped
Hand Muted Hit
Roll Hard
Roll Soft

*BASS DRUM 1*

Crash
Crash Muted
Crash Hard Stick
Crash Hard Stick Muted
Roll
Bowed
Crescendo


----------



## jamwerks

paulthomson said:


> I just recorded a walkthru of mic positions yesterday - its being edited Monday so I think that should be available to watch on Tuesday. Its actually really fascinating seeing how the sound changes - there are a lot of options in here.


Will be excited to hear all the mic's !!

On other upcoming video's, in addition to the out-of-the-box sounds of the library, it would be interesting to hear what different reverb plugins do to the sound. That's really the final product we'll all be working with!


----------



## christianhenson

Funny you should say that, Jake and I have just done a reverb challenge with the BBCSO!!!

No prizes for guessing the theme:


----------



## lgmcben

paulthomson said:


> Hey Gussunkri - I just recorded a walkthru of mic positions yesterday - its being edited Monday so I think that should be available to watch on Tuesday. Its actually really fascinating seeing how the sound changes - there are a lot of options in here.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Paul



My finger is on the 'Buy' button. Only waiting to confirm if you need to download the whole 600GB for this to work. Or can you just selectively download the instruments, articulations and mic positions you want. 

As the lib is not out yet no one seems to be able to 100% answer this question. I hope your video on Tuesday clarify this for many laptop users out there.


----------



## Øivind

Will all the articualtions and instruments be correctly leveled against each other as it would be when actualy played by a live orchestra?

If there is any 1 educational component i would want from BBCSO, it would be to teach us on how an actual orchestra sounds. Correct/natural volume for all articualtions within an instrument/section (like pizzicato vs staccato vs trems vs longs etc) and correct/natural volume for an instrument/section against all other instruments/sections (like lead violin vs violins vs violas vs celli vs bass vs flute vs flutes vs clarinet vs clarinets vs horn vs horns vs trumpet etc etc.)

I would rather have it be natural, as if i was listening at a concert or being the conductor, than for it to be mixed by someone for a specific medium or genre. In which the later seems to be the standard for some reason. In my oppinion, the BBCSO is the 1 library where this would be worth the extra months of finetuning the volume for each sample for each articullation for each instrument for each section on each microphone so it sounds like a natrual live orchestra.


----------



## Adam Takacs

Alex Fraser said:


> Ah, sleigh bells. The final bit of the puzzle. I’m sold now.


Details so far, demos, Christian's trailer video, this huge articulation list below this amazing price tag.
I might look sentimental, but now a dream really comes true.
I look forward to more details, but I'm sold too, no doubt.
All I need is a few more weeks to save money. (it's great to have time for this)


----------



## redlester

On Tuesday am heading off for two weeks, first cruising the coast of Alaska then trying to photograph whales and bears at the north end of Vancouver island. Will have very iffy internet signal (if any at all) just at the time when all the walkthroughs will probably be coming along. I’m going to have some catching up to do in early October!


----------



## pawelmorytko

christianhenson said:


> Funny you should say that, Jake and I have just done a reverb challenge with the BBCSO!!!
> 
> No prizes for guessing the theme:




A Spitfire office up in Edinburgh? Since I just happen to live here in this beautiful city, I really hope you guys set up camp in here and I would love to apply for any potential jobs!


----------



## CT

I'm still hoping for the New York operation to expand... I'll sweep the damn floors if that's what it takes!


----------



## christianhenson

oivind_rosvold said:


> Will all the articualtions and instruments be correctly leveled against each other as it would be when actualy played by a live orchestra?
> 
> If there is any 1 educational component i would want from BBCSO, it would be to teach us on how an actual orchestra sounds. Correct/natural volume for all articualtions within an instrument/section (like pizzicato vs staccato vs trems vs longs etc) and correct/natural volume for an instrument/section against all other instruments/sections (like lead violin vs violins vs violas vs celli vs bass vs flute vs flutes vs clarinet vs clarinets vs horn vs horns vs trumpet etc etc.)
> 
> I would rather have it be natural, as if i was listening at a concert or being the conductor, than for it to be mixed by someone for a specific medium or genre. In which the later seems to be the standard for some reason. In my oppinion, the BBCSO is the 1 library where this would be worth the extra months of finetuning the volume for each sample for each articullation for each instrument for each section on each microphone so it sounds like a natrual live orchestra.



We have made our best efforts in this respect to making the whole thing balanced from the recording set up to Jake mixing the entire orchestra before it was edited. We've also had hardcore orchestrators working with the library with this very specifically in mind. With collaboration being at the heart of this libraries my dream is that a MIDI file opened in cubase should sound the same as my logic session sans plugins. That is if I don't alter any faders but simply and puritanically program using expression and modulation.

On the download front CX may correct me here, but I think you download by section. It is important for the plugin that all mics are present for each section so that it doesn't get confused.

I would strongly consider the SSD option here, not only will you be able to plugin and play on the day of release, but also we're losing quite a few quids (depending on where you live) on each purchase to make it as cost effective as humanly possibly. They're in rugged beautiful cases so well worth considering....; Right I'm going to shut up now and take the dogs for a walk, they're giving me "that look".


----------



## Øivind

That is excellent news! 

And because i had so much GAS, i just pre-orderd with the SSD.


----------



## KEM

Excited for the walkthrough, don’t think I’ll ever leave the Symphonic Orchestra line but I’m excited to see this anyways


----------



## SpitfireSupport

christianhenson said:


> On the download front CX may correct me here, but I think you download by section. It is important for the plugin that all mics are present for each section so that it doesn't get confused.
> 
> I would strongly consider the SSD option here, not only will you be able to plugin and play on the day of release, but also we're losing quite a few quids (depending on where you live) on each purchase to make it as cost effective as humanly possibly. They're in rugged beautiful cases so well worth considering....; Right I'm going to shut up now and take the dogs for a walk, they're giving me "that look".



That's right! The plan is to have Strings, Brass, Woods and Percussion as separate downloadable sections. There's also the option of buying on a regular hard drive (added at the cart stage) if you already have all the SSD space you need.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Any updates on how the BBCO would run on a 16gb ram machine? I guess with limited articulations loaded and only one mic on it shouldn't be too bad? It's been the freeze/bounce in place life for me as of late...


----------



## Alex Fraser

pawelmorytko said:


> Any updates on how the BBCO would run on a 16gb ram machine? I guess with limited articulations loaded and only one mic on it shouldn't be too bad? It's been the freeze/bounce in place life for me as of late...


I'm in the same boat with 20gb. I'm thinking that it might well be doable, providing you're not expecting to use 5 mics per instrument. The pre-made mixes will help.

A "disabled tracks" template coupled with some custom, sensible multi-articulation BBCSO instances might get the job done. Perhaps with a smaller pre-load buffer and fast SSD.

I'll be putting together a template myself and will be happy to share if I can make to work. I'm looking forward to CH's findings in his incoming blog post.


----------



## staypuft

christianhenson said:


> From our chief developer:
> 
> _"There are some parts that are shared between instances of the same plugin: the preload buffer (which is the main component) plus the pool of voices and stream buffers (this is a much smaller proportion). Then there is also a relatively small amount that is needed by each instance. The figure in the ui is the sum of these two. Which is why sometimes the values will be different in different instances. For example, an all in one might need a bit more than a preset with only one techniqu"_



Hello @christianhenson thank you for taking the time to address our questions. As a potential BBCSO buyer, the quality of costumer support presented here is duly noted and appreciated.

Can you further expand on the RAM subject? I still cannot understand what that means in practical end user terms. Using your brilliant demo as an example, what was the actual RAM usage of the 44 instance project? Better yet, can you open the Logic session and show us the Memory tab in Activity Monitor? That will put the speculations at rest. Cheers.


----------



## christianhenson

I'll do that later


----------



## Will Wilson

Really need a Spitfire buy back program so I can sell back to them all the other libraries that will hardly get used after this!


----------



## AllanH

Regarding the SSD: I asked support last week, and they informed me that the SSD will ship from the UK.


----------



## richhickey

Saxer said:


> Everybody praising the library here as a new standard in orchestral sampling... but it isn't even out yet? I also preordered and have high hopes but I'll wait until I have it under my fingers before doxology.



It certainly looks promising, and the room sounds _wonderful_. But, this only makes me feel that much more burned by my experience buying their Studio series (Strings Pro and Brass Pro - fool me twice). Why did they even bother with Studio with this in the wings?

That library suffered from a dearth of raw samples (in both number and duration, and no, more mics are not more samples) being stretched too far, and a reliance on playback tricks to try to cover it up, and failing at that. Plus a room sound that, while working quirkily for BHCT, just serves as a basketball court taint you can't remove/improve in the studio series. Forcing that library to completion with that room sound is like finishing a movie when you know the lighting was inadequate.

I'm still on pause with Spitfire purchases until a lot of actual user feedback indicates they've changed their ways. I want a better product and less breathless marketing.


----------



## Architekton

christianhenson said:


> I'll do that later



Dear Christian, can you pls shows some runs (strings, brass, ww) and brass section from quietest to loudest? Just to get the feel of the library before pre-ordering. Thank you!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Regarding those who choose to download.....will BBC require more than 600GB of drive space?


----------



## AndyP

I hope the Brexit will not interfere with the download. Who knows how many controls the files have to pass through before they can cross the border.


----------



## axb312

paulthomson said:


> Hey Gussunkri - I just recorded a walkthru of mic positions yesterday - its being edited Monday so I think that should be available to watch on Tuesday. Its actually really fascinating seeing how the sound changes - there are a lot of options in here.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Paul



@paulthomson Do you by any chance go through the dynamic layers on the brass...looking forward to that in particular...

I would also like to know if the samples can be split across drives...


----------



## Alex Fraser

Wolfie2112 said:


> Regarding those who choose to download.....will BBC require more than 600GB of drive space?


I believe the reply from support was akin to "a little bit more than 600GB is required to install" as they've improved the download and unpacking process.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Alex Fraser said:


> I believe the reply from support was akin to "a little bit more than 600GB is required to install" as they've improved the download and unpacking process.



Sweet, thanks!


----------



## meradium

christianhenson said:


> From our chief developer:
> 
> _"There are some parts that are shared between instances of the same plugin: the preload buffer (which is the main component) plus the pool of voices and stream buffers (this is a much smaller proportion). Then there is also a relatively small amount that is needed by each instance. The figure in the ui is the sum of these two. Which is why sometimes the values will be different in different instances. For example, an all in one might need a bit more than a preset with only one techniqu"_



But that actually sounds more like the RAM usage will add up just like James was seeing using the HZ player, no?


----------



## Zero&One

This may or may not help... but this is HZ with every articulation loaded using SA template ( so there's 14 reverbs loaded also). Tried to get the player MEM and OSX Memory in 1 screen grab. Just 1 mic per.
Hopefully gives some people some idea until we get official walkthrough etc etc


----------



## sostenuto

dzilizzi said:


> Ooohh! Should I get a podium and baton???!!!???
> 
> 
> Sorry couldn't resist.



Whaat !!! You don't have either ?? 

BTW _ CH hall comments are cool insight into AIR and MV, for those few who are not familiar.


----------



## Daniel James

James H said:


> This may or may not help... but this is HZ with every articulation loaded using SA template ( so there's 14 reverbs loaded also). Tried to get the player MEM and OSX Memory in 1 screen grab. Just 1 mic per.
> Hopefully gives some people some idea until we get official walkthrough etc etc



I did a quick load of 41 instances of HZ strings (not that you would load that many but in Christians video he had a similar number.) But I still don't get what the number represents. I sped the video up 300% after I click the add instrument button to save you a couple of minutes. BTW this isnt just a Spitfire player question its a memory loading question in general. Pay attention to how much the UI says its using then how much 'memory used' on the activity monitor is showing. It's all well and good to say its only using one gig of ram across all instances but it doesnt look like thats reflected on memory usage (or are they not related? actual genuine question as I would like to understand this)



-DJ


----------



## christianhenson

It is Logic management... You load in Jake and my template without any instance of BBCSO you'll get a massive GB hit immediately. Logic goes "ok, this kid is doing some shit I'm gonna nab a whole lotta RAM".. I'm just editing a film where I demonstrate how this works to my very limited understanding. The take away is memory usage very low on BBCSO, if you create crazy routing + lots of instances of tracks Logic will bagsie RAM like families putting towels on deck chairs before going to breakfast. HOWEVER, I can report that Jake and my template (which is effing massive) has a BBCSO plugin hit of less than 15GB and an Activity monitor hit of less than 30GB. My trailer, once everything I'm not using is stripped is less than 2GB...

Trying to edit this bloody video but playing VI-C is so much fun.... feels like the good ol' days.


----------



## Zero&One

@Daniel James I haven't a clue to honest :D
Mine is similar as in the player reports 3.86GB but activity monitor showing 10GB. Memory manangment in osx is a dark art as there's all sorts of wizardry happening and not all is what it appears to be... (edit see above lol)

I think the thing to take away is it doing a good job as I have 160 or so instances loaded and most decent laptops could handle that ok. And my example is an over the top example.

So I've no doubt BBCSO and the new player will be just as good if not way way better


----------



## yellowtone

Hi @christianhenson, now that you've had more time with BBCSO, any thoughts on how it would layer with other SA libraries, BHCT, and the SCS and SSO libraries in particular? Would love to know your thoughts, really loved the SSO (with SCS) + BHCT sound you achieved in the comparison video you did and curious how BBCSO + BCHT for example would sound. Would be particularly interesting for those who have already invested in multiple SA libraries and who might want to layer or combine these. I know you used Albion 1 a bit in your latest but that was really just at the beginning, not really layered in with the BBCSO.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Daniel James said:


> I did a quick load of 41 instances of HZ strings (not that you would load that many but in Christians video he had a similar number.) But I still don't get what the number represents. I sped the video up 300% after I click the add instrument button to save you a couple of minutes. BTW this isnt just a Spitfire player question its a memory loading question in general. Pay attention to how much the UI says its using then how much 'memory used' on the activity monitor is showing. It's all well and good to say its only using one gig of ram across all instances but it doesnt look like thats reflected on memory usage (or are they not related? actual genuine question as I would like to understand this)
> 
> 
> 
> -DJ



Mmm i just did a similar test with eric whitacre choirs in Cubase on Windows 10.

Here's my very basic understanding of how it's working....

*TL;DR: The readout in the spitfire player IS accurate regarding how much sample content is loaded into the preload buffer. It is not representative of the overall plugin use.*

NOTE: The following is based on Cubase Pro 10 running in Windows 10.

HOW IT WORKS:
Loading the first instance of the plugin (or any plugin) will load all of the necessary graphics and coding into ram that will be shared across all instances of the plugin. For me, this was roughly 725 MB. Each additional instance then adds ~80 MB.
The sample buffer (how much audio samples are loaded into memory) is additional to this, and THAT number is reflected in the Spitfire Player.

If you remove an instance of the Spitfire Player, the sample buffer remains loaded in RAM until you close your DAW. So if you load one instance that uses 150 MB of memory, there will still be 150 MB of memory used once you remove that instance. ie. The PLUGIN was unloaded, but the samples were not. This is normal, and how other samplers work too.




Spoiler: The boring tests



Empty Cubase with no instances of anything:





With one instance of EWC:





Two instances (duplicates):





Four Instances:





TWELVE instances:






The obvious thing you notice is that the EWC instances say "150 MB" usage at all times, across all instances. Yet clearly there is being more ram added.
The first instance of EWC added ~850mb (including sample data of 150 MB)
Adding a second instance added ~77mb
Adding two more instances used up ~82mb each
Adding 8 more (for a total of twelve) added ~81mb for each new instance.

If I increase the preload buffer to about double the default setting, it adds 110mb of memory to the interface readout. This is also reflected in the task manager, reporting ~110mb extra memory used by cubase.
If I change patch in one of the instances, it increased memory usage by 100mb. This was also reflected accurately in task manager.
So the interface IS an accurate representation of *something*. There's just a big chunk of memory loaded in the beginning that is not reflected in the interface.

Once I remove all instances of EWC, the same memory usage that was reported in the player is still loaded into ram. For example, the player stated "360 MB" was loaded into memory, and task manager indicates that 360 MB is still loaded into memory, but all of the other bloat memory usage is gone. So the initial hit of ~700 MB from the first instance is Cubase's management of the Plugin (all of the graphics, etc.) A new instance of the plugin does not need to load all of its graphics and code into RAM since it has already been loaded.

My conclusion: After the initial plugin is loaded into memory, each additional instance will use roughly 80 MB, not including samples.
As CH previously stated, the sample usage (preload buffer) is shared across instances.
Which would mean that 12 instances = ~960 MB + the initial load amount for the player itself, no samples.



Of course, the usage differs a little bit every time I run the same tests, but it generally indicates the same thing each time. I'd be interested what other user's results show, particularly across different systems and DAWs.


----------



## Daniel James

Jdiggity1 said:


> Mmm i just did a similar test with eric whitacre choirs in Cubase.
> Empty Cubase with no instances of anything:
> View attachment 22483
> 
> With one instance of EWC:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two instances (duplicates):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four Instances:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TWELVE instances:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The obvious thing you notice is that the EWC instances say "150 MB" usage at all times, across all instances. Yet clearly there is being more ram added.
> The first instance of EWC added ~725mb
> Adding a second instance added ~77mb
> Adding two more instances used up ~82mb each
> Adding 8 more (for a total of twelve) added ~81mb for each new instance.
> 
> So after all of that, what I suspect is happening is that the plugin itself is using ~80mb of memory, not including samples. As CH previously stated, the sample usage (preload buffer) is shared across instances.
> Which would mean that 12 instances = ~960mb for the player itself, no samples.
> But that leaves ~650 MB of sample data (or unexplained memory usage), while the interface reads 150 MB.
> 
> Oof.... maybe it's best i don't try to understand these things.
> 
> EDIT: If I increase the preload buffer to about double the default setting, it adds 110mb of memory to the interface readout. This is also reflected in the task manager, reporting ~110mb extra memory used by cubase.
> If I change patch in one of the instances, it increased memory usage by 100mb. This was also reflected accurately in task manager.
> So the interface IS an accurate representation of *something*. There's just a big chunk of memory loaded in the beginning that is not reflected in the interface.



Ok so is the memory shown on the UI representative of how much its _actually_ using or not really? Like when Christian says in his video its only using 5gig of Ram is that accurate or is the actual memory higher? Also in AndyB's 33gig demo would that then be closer to a higher actual ram usage like 60gig?

When I load up a Kontakt patch I usually get a closer (although still not 100% accurate) activity monitor usage to the represented ram indicator on the Kontakt patch. I guess its easier to see because you get the ram usage per patch.



christianhenson said:


> HOWEVER, I can report that Jake and my template (which is effing massive) BBCSO plugin hit of less than 15GB and an Activity monitor hit of less than 30GB. My trailer, once everything I'm not using is stripped is less than 2GB...



I get that the usage is smaller once you strip everything away, but that wont help you much when writing, unless you purge everything from the get go right? and even then you would be taking RAM from all the instances?

And does that mean that for people using Laptops with 16gig of ram, your JJ + CH template might be too big to work in?

Even still it seems like its pretty lite on resources which is good, although I can't seem to work out how much memory its actually using. And if its more beneficial to me to have lots of instances running or less instances (like kontakt) with more patches, from a memory standpoint.

-DJ


----------



## staypuft

christianhenson said:


> It is Logic management... You load in Jake and my template without any instance of BBCSO you'll get a massive GB hit immediately. Logic goes "ok, this kid is doing some shit I'm gonna nab a whole lotta RAM".. I'm just editing a film where I demonstrate how this works to my very limited understanding. The take away is memory usage very low on BBCSO, if you create crazy routing + lots of instances of tracks Logic will bagsie RAM like families putting towels on deck chairs before going to breakfast. HOWEVER, I can report that Jake and my template (which is effing massive) has a BBCSO plugin hit of less than 15GB and an Activity monitor hit of less than 30GB. My trailer, once everything I'm not using is stripped is less than 2GB...
> 
> Trying to edit this bloody video but playing VI-C is so much fun.... feels like the good ol' days.




Thank you. It's not a Logic thing or voodoo. It's how the plugin was set to report memory usage, which can be a bit misleading, otherwise we would see similar low numbers in the Activity Monitor or Task Manager.

It does not make sense that a large session uses 5GB across 44 instances. Or that a 200 track template is under 15GB. I would prefer that the plugin reported the actual RAM usage instead of whatever is doing. Looking forward to the video.


----------



## Alex Fraser

christianhenson said:


> It is Logic management... You load in Jake and my template without any instance of BBCSO you'll get a massive GB hit immediately. Logic goes "ok, this kid is doing some shit I'm gonna nab a whole lotta RAM".. I'm just editing a film where I demonstrate how this works to my very limited understanding. The take away is memory usage very low on BBCSO, if you create crazy routing + lots of instances of tracks Logic will bagsie RAM like families putting towels on deck chairs before going to breakfast. HOWEVER, I can report that Jake and my template (which is effing massive) has a BBCSO plugin hit of less than 15GB and an Activity monitor hit of less than 30GB. My trailer, once everything I'm not using is stripped is less than 2GB...
> 
> Trying to edit this bloody video but playing VI-C is so much fun.... feels like the good ol' days.


I’ve also noticed some plugin loading voodoo in the latest version of Logic: Enabling a patch in Kontakt via activating a track that’s “off” is much faster than loading the same patch from scratch in an already loaded instance of Kontact. If that makes any sense.

I’ve tested it several times between reboots and it seems to hold true. So it might go a little way to explaining Logic’s greedy memory grab upon loading a template? That some of the plugin data is lurking ready in the background?


----------



## Jdiggity1

Daniel James said:


> Ok so is the memory shown on the UI representative of how much its _actually_ using or not really? Like when Christian says in his video its only using 5gig of Ram is that accurate or is the actual memory higher? Also in AndyB's 33gig demo would that then be closer to a higher actual ram usage like 60gig?
> 
> When I load up a Kontakt patch I usually get a closer (although still not 100% accurate) activity monitor usage to the represented ram indicator on the Kontakt patch. I guess its easier to see because you get the ram usage per patch...
> 
> 
> -DJ



Sorry I've updated my post to be more clear with my findings.

I also did the same tests with Kontakt just now....

First instance of *empty *kontakt used 175mb, each additional instance used ~75mb.
Loading one instance of Albion ONE strings used an additional 700 mb, kontakt tells me 448 mb.
Loading a second Albion ONE strings in a separate instance used an additional 182mb.
Loading a second Albion ONE Strings in the SAME first instance as another used an additional 153mb. (Kontakt still says 448 mb for each instance of Albion ONE.)

12 Empty instances of kontakt used 1025 mb. When compared to EWC (which used roughly 960mb for 12 instances) it's not a big difference.
12 instances of Albion ONE Strings used 3017 mb. Take out the kontakt interface part of it (1025) and we're left with 1992 mb used by 12 instances of Albion ONE. Each instance says 448 mb, which would equal 5376 mb if all 12 instances loaded what they said they did.
Instead, it's actually only using 166 mb per instance.

So uhhh.... I don't know what you make of that. But I can't make any sense of it.
Whereas with the spitfire player, I feel like I could at least get an idea of what was going on.

Oh and btw none of this is very scientific... to anybody reading this, please don't treat it as any sort of authority or conclusive findings. I'm just having fun nerding out for a minute...


----------



## Alex Fraser

Daniel James said:


> And if its more beneficial to me to have lots of instances running or less instances (like kontakt) with more patches, from a memory standpoint.


My takeaway is that you’ll use less resources by stuffing your player instances with articulations. i.e Less instances, but more audio data in each one.


----------



## staypuft

Alex Fraser said:


> I’ve also noticed some plugin loading voodoo in the latest version of Logic: Enabling a patch in Kontakt via activating a track that’s “off” is much faster than loading the same patch from scratch in an already loaded instance of Kontact. If that makes any sense.



That's because it's not loading the GUI. The same happens with Vienna Ensemble Pro. Once you load a patch, disable the track and load it again (different day, different session) it's faster and easier on the RAM.


----------



## Daniel James

Jdiggity1 said:


> Sorry I've updated my post to be more clear with my findings.
> 
> I also did the same tests with Kontakt just now....
> 
> First instance of *empty *kontakt used 175mb, each additional instance used ~75mb.
> Loading one instance of Albion ONE strings used an additional 700 mb, kontakt tells me 448 mb.
> Loading a second Albion ONE strings in a separate instance used an additional 182mb.
> Loading a second Albion ONE Strings in the SAME first instance as another used an additional 153mb. (Kontakt still says 448 mb for each instance of Albion ONE.)
> 
> 12 Empty instances of kontakt used 1025 mb. When compared to EWC (which used roughly 960mb for 12 instances) it's not a big difference.
> 12 instances of Albion ONE Strings used 3017 mb. Take out the kontakt interface part of it (1025) and we're left with 1992 mb used by 12 instances of Albion ONE. Each instance says 448 mb, which would equal 5376 mb if all 12 instances loaded what they said they did.
> Instead, it's actually only using 166 mb per instance.
> 
> So uhhh.... I don't know what you make of that. But I can't make any sense of it.
> Whereas with the spitfire player, I feel like I could at least get an idea of what was going on.
> 
> Oh and btw none of this is very scientific... to anybody reading this, please don't treat it as any sort of authority or conclusive findings. I'm just having fun nerding out for a minute...


----------



## Denkii

EvilDragon could probably shed some light on the Kontakt part.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Denkii said:


> EvilDragon could probably shed some light on the Kontakt part.


Probably. But it's probably also not worth fussing about is it?
Maybe for another thread.


----------



## Ihnoc

Certainly within Cubase working with Kontakt, it was more RAM efficient to work with as few multi out instances as possible. Depending on the complexity of the patch one would incur a significant RAM impact even if the same patch was being loaded.

From my testing regarding the impact of Orchestral Tools' heavier libraries, Kontakt's RAM impact comes down to:

Sample Memory, which is shared across instances
Time Machine memory, which I can't recall, but I believe is per patch
Object memory, which is separate per patch for functional elements like scripts, zones and groups, but shared across instances for things like graphics from the same resource
Some general memory that is allocated by the DAW
Kontakt gives you the impact of the instance in the Expert Tab, except its DAW impact, but misleadingly shows you the shared memory instead in the same window.

My point is that the RAM impact shown on a patch in Kontakt is one number just for samples but it has a larger impact as seen by the process manager or whatever Mac calls it. The Spitfire player looks to be representing the information in the same way. I believe Play does exactly the same too...

Invoking @EvilDragon for corrections.


----------



## Alex Fraser

staypuft said:


> That's because it's not loading the GUI. The same happens with Vienna Ensemble Pro. Once you load a patch, disable the track and load it again (different day, different session) it's faster and easier on the RAM.


I understand what you're saying but I explained myself poorly. (Not for the first time!)

Consider the following vids which I created just now to check I wasn't going insane. *Before each example was screengrabbed, the Mac was rebooted.* It's a MacBook Air with 4GB of ram (belonging to my wife..) and most certainly passes the "low end Mac" test.

First up, loading the Albion ONE strings patch normally in Kontakt, in a new project file. Yep, the gap in the middle isn't a playback issue...




And now the same patch, but loaded as part of a "disabled tracks" template:



The difference is crazy and I've no idea how it's happening. It's absolutely revolutionised my workflow. I'm not sure what voodoo is going on here, but it's nuts. The difference isn't as drastic with many other libraries, but it really does speed up loading the worst offenders.

Shuffling back OT, the point I'm making - albeit laboriously - is that if you're a Logic user looking to create a BBCSO template, dynamic plugin management is clearly the way to go, and maybe, possibly (a little) explains Christian's post load buffer.

And also - if you have't tried the workflow yet, you really should..


----------



## Denkii

Jdiggity1 said:


> Probably. But it's probably also not worth fussing about is it?
> Maybe for another thread.


I find calming my curiosity very worthwhile.


----------



## Daniel James

Ihnoc said:


> Invoking @EvilDragon for corrections.



Haha that sounds like summoning a demon.


----------



## Loïc D

Daniel James said:


> Haha that sounds like summoning a demon.


It does, does it ?


----------



## redlester

The longer things take to load, the more Quality Street can be eaten while waiting.


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> The longer things take to load, the more Quality Street can be eaten while waiting.


<Deletes all template files..>


----------



## Denkii

redlester said:


> The longer things take to load, the more Quality Street can be eaten while waiting.


Looking forward to downloading BBCSO.
I don't think quality street produces enough for my needs.


----------



## Zero&One

@Alex Fraser maybe that's why my HZ template is so efficient? I would swear my Mac couldn't load all those instances as fast pre Logic update.


----------



## Alex Fraser

James H said:


> @Alex Fraser maybe that's why my HZ template is so efficient? I would swear my Mac couldn't load all those instances as fast pre Logic update.


It's not just me going mad then! I though someone had swapped my Mac for a new one the first time I loaded a template.

I've setup a key command for "hide all unused tracks" (or something along those lines) so when I'm done arranging and want to clean things up, it's done. Looking forward to seeing how BBCSO works in such a setup.


----------



## sIR dORT

My only conclusion so far from this thread is that the Spitfire marketing team is genius.


----------



## cqd

sIR dORT said:


> My only conclusion so far from this thread is that the Spitfire marketing team is genius.



Yeah, Mr. Henson is some salesman alright..
I can imagine him selling you white noise drenched in reverb.."..and you hear that beautiful reverb..it really is quite lovely.."

But, having said that, I'm going to buy it..Once the spitfire fanboys don't get as bad as the slate fanboys it won't be too bad..

Having said that, I've already bought an SSD..I'm going to buy this..


----------



## jononotbono

So excited about this I've just applied to raise my credit card limit to buy it. What can I say. I'm British and I need the BBC in my life (And Cadbury's Roses NOT Quality Street you philistines). God save the Queen.


----------



## VinRice

jononotbono said:


> And Cadbury's Roses NOT Quality Street you philistines



Ahh, a fellow traveler. Congratulations on your good taste. I think we may have to start a sub-forum.


----------



## VinRice

cqd said:


> Yeah, Mr. Henson is some salesman alright..
> I can imagine him selling you white noise drenched in reverb.."..and you hear that beautiful reverb..it really is quite lovely.."
> 
> But, having said that, I'm going to buy it..Once the spitfire fanboys don't get as bad as the slate fanboys it won't be too bad..
> 
> Having said that, I've already bought an SSD..I'm going to buy this..



Fanboys? Flippant lazy language. Not a fan.


----------



## cqd

VinRice said:


> Fanboys? Flippant lazy language. Not a fan.



Well, I am generally quite flippant and rather lazy..
There are a few around the place though..


----------



## dzilizzi

VinRice said:


> Fanboys? Flippant lazy language. Not a fan.


LOL! Maybe a fan here but not a boy. 

The "problem" with Mr. Henson is that he is actually excited about his products and has an infectious way about him that makes us excited about it. I am also excited about the learning opportunities being offered. So if that makes him a great salesman, well, that's great for Spitfire. 

Generally, I don't follow these long pre-sale threads, but this one has been a lot of fun and I've learned a few things, including that Amazon sells Quality Street Chocolates. Got to have priorities straight.


----------



## Garlu

Alex Fraser said:


> I'm not sure what voodoo is going on here, but it's nuts.



Have you tried "batch resaving" your patches? To me, when you put it as inactive, Kontakt already knows where the samples are and goes directly into loading mode... not into "let's see where the samples live on your hard drive..." 

Maybe it could be that. Not sure!


----------



## KEM

Alex Fraser said:


> My takeaway is that you’ll use less resources by stuffing your player instances with articulations. i.e Less instances, but more audio data in each one.



So, like Kontakt multis then?


----------



## EvilDragon

Ihnoc said:


> Sample Memory, which is shared across instances



Sample memory is shared within the same instance of Kontakt, not between multiple instances AFAIK. But I am not 100% sure, I have to verify when I'm back home. 

You're correct on all other accounts.


----------



## Zero&One

@christianhenson I know you mentioned you'll be kindly sharing your demo project at some stage. Will the Oliver and Homay projects be available in the future?
Us "fanboys" would appreciate it.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Unashamed fanboy here too.

I daydream about Christian doing a "creative cribs" in my studio (I'd make sure there was a tin of Quality Streets available for us to share, of course..)

I make my children watch all of Paul's walkthrough videos too. My son, 6, has Paul's Studio Series walkthroughs memorised word for word.

I'm also thinking of getting a tattoo of the HZ strings interface.
It causes tension with my wife, but hey...you like what you like, right?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Garlu said:


> Have you tried "batch resaving" your patches? To me, when you put it as inactive, Kontakt already knows where the samples are and goes directly into loading mode... not into "let's see where the samples live on your hard drive..."
> 
> Maybe it could be that. Not sure!


Thanks Garlu, I'll give it a shot.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Unashamed fanboy here too.
> 
> I daydream about Christian doing a "creative cribs" in my studio (I'd make sure there was a tin of Quality Streets available for us to share, of course..)
> 
> I make my children watch all of Paul's walkthrough videos too. My son, 6, has Paul's Studio Series walkthroughs memorised word for word.
> 
> I'm also thinking of getting a tattoo of the HZ strings interface.
> It causes tension with my wife, but hey...you like what you like, right?





Spoiler: My butt tattoo - enter at your own risk!


----------



## christianhenson

A glimpse into the wonderful mind of Andy Blaney:


----------



## al_net77

Since I have access to a very fast connection (not at home), is it possible to download the BBCSO *without* installing it on the PC?


----------



## NoamL

!!!! 

When people wonder why Andy's demos sound so real....


----------



## Denkii

NoamL said:


> !!!!
> 
> When people wonder why Andy's demos sound so real....


What am I looking at?
A tempo track?


----------



## al_net77

Denkii said:


> What am I looking at?
> A tempo track?



Yep


----------



## Alex Fraser

NoamL said:


> !!!!
> 
> When people wonder why Andy's demos sound so real....


----------



## christianhenson

Does Spitfire get a prize when we break the thread length record BTW?


----------



## Alex Fraser

christianhenson said:


> Does Spitfire get a prize when we break the thread length record BTW?


Yes, a bumper tin of Quality Street. Appropriately.


----------



## Zero&One

christianhenson said:


> A glimpse into the wonderful mind of Andy Blaney:




That's some great video editing there, top notch. 
And that demo... as my teacher reports used to say "could try harder". Nah seriously, it's amazing and the sound is incredible.


----------



## ridgero

christianhenson said:


> Does Spitfire get a prize when we break the thread length record BTW?



I wonder if the replies correlate with the sold copies.


----------



## rlundv




----------



## Loïc D

christianhenson said:


> Does Spitfire get a prize when we break the thread length record BTW?



« Let us all become 150 pages »

If you come to Paris, I’ll bring you a box of homemade macarons & chocolates


----------



## JoeHidden

@christianhenson would you or @SpitfireSupport be so kind to answer my question? Thank you 🙏



JoeHidden said:


> @christianhenson I find the template / collaboration part super interesting. Primarily I work with Cubase on Windows 10, but I also own a MacBook Pro with Logic. I wonder if I can buy the Windows version and still participate in the collaboration and learning aspects on the Macbook. May the second personal computer also be cross-platform?


----------



## ridgero

@JoeHidden: Please correct me, if I have misunderstood your question:

AFAIK the collaboration is just a template thing. You can collaborate with everyone you want as long you have the same DAW. The main idea behind that concept is that you only need one package installed (BBC SO) to collaborate. I think it will have nothing to do with OSX/Windows.

Spitfire products are allowed to be installed on 2 computers.

I don't think Spitfire will do Cubase templates in the near future. I have never seen any SA walkthroughs / tutorials on Cubase.


----------



## JoeHidden

@ridgero Spitfire said, that they will share the projects from the demos and maybe more in the future as logic projects. I think it is a great chance to learn from people like Andy how to master a virtual orchestra. As Cubase user that part will not available. 

That is the reason for my question.


----------



## Zero&One

NoamL said:


> !!!!
> 
> When people wonder why Andy's demos sound so real....



Could someone explain this witchcraft to me?

I understand the concept that the tempo is changing/evolving.
Is he doing these manually? Or is there some process within Logic I'm missing out?
I've seen @christianhenson projects with similar. I've added a few before manually but just major tempo shifts. This is something I've never really explored coming from a rock/EDM background.


----------



## Zedcars

christianhenson said:


> A glimpse into the wonderful mind of Andy Blaney:



Magnifico!

I truly feel if this was performed in a concert setting it would get a standing ovation. Just the sort of thing that a Proms performance would suit perfectly. Assuming you have everything notated corrected, and there are no ‘impossible’ sections/notes/transitions, what is the secret to having a real orchestra take you seriously and agree to perform your piece? I understand we are approaching this from a digital mock-up perspective, and the very notion of sample libraries is to enable composers the freedom to compose without a hiring expensive orchestra, and to do things electronically with samples that is impossible with acoustic instruments. But, with a piece such as this, it practically cries out for a real performance.

I wonder if the elitist mindset in the classical world would prohibit a performance of a work from a composer who does not go the traditional route via an education at a top Conservatoire, getting commissions, and building a name for yourself. I wonder if there are any established orchestras would take on a performance from somebody outside of that world.

EDIT: I should add that I do not know anything about Andy Blaney so I do not know his educational background. I am only talking in general terms should someone be self-educated.


----------



## christianhenson

That old guard is dying or dead, you only need to see Johnny Greenwood's performance at this year's proms to prove that alongside the multitude of composers creating "concert" music who are traditionally trained, notwithstanding my brother Keaton Henson.

Here's a video that will stoke the RAM debate here (from around 7 minutes in):


----------



## Sovereign

Zedcars said:


> EDIT: I should add that I do not know anything about Andy Blaney so I do not know his educational background. I am only talking in general terms should someone be self-educated.


Andy does have an academic background in composition as far as I can remember.


----------



## Zedcars

James H said:


> Could someone explain this witchcraft to me?
> 
> I understand the concept that the tempo is changing/evolving.
> Is he doing these manually? Or is there some process within Logic I'm missing out?
> I've seen @christianhenson projects with similar. I've added a few before manually but just major tempo shifts. This is something I've never really explored coming from a rock/EDM background.


I can only talk from my own perspective, but personally, and depending on the piece, I try to ‘perform’ as much as possible on the piano with the click track turned off. Then you go through and match up the tempo to your performance. I would also tweak the tempo slightly after that, sometimes several times once the orchestral instruments have been filled in.


----------



## ridgero

christianhenson said:


> Here's a video that will stoke the RAM debate here (from around 7 minutes in):




Holy moly, 11.4 GB for such a huge template is nothing !!! Thanks for sharing :D


----------



## staypuft

Alex Fraser said:


> I understand what you're saying but I explained myself poorly. (Not for the first time!)
> 
> Consider the following vids which I created just now to check I wasn't going insane. *Before each example was screengrabbed, the Mac was rebooted.* It's a MacBook Air with 4GB of ram (belonging to my wife..) and most certainly passes the "low end Mac" test.
> 
> First up, loading the Albion ONE strings patch normally in Kontakt, in a new project file. Yep, the gap in the middle isn't a playback issue...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now the same patch, but loaded as part of a "disabled tracks" template:
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is crazy and I've no idea how it's happening. It's absolutely revolutionised my workflow. I'm not sure what voodoo is going on here, but it's nuts. The difference isn't as drastic with many other libraries, but it really does speed up loading the worst offenders.
> 
> Shuffling back OT, the point I'm making - albeit laboriously - is that if you're a Logic user looking to create a BBCSO template, dynamic plugin management is clearly the way to go, and maybe, possibly (a little) explains Christian's post load buffer.
> 
> And also - if you have't tried the workflow yet, you really should..





Now I understand, thanks for explaining. It looks like you didn't batch resave Albion. Also make sure you add the samples location to the exclusion list of your antivirus.

What is going on is that Kontakt already knows where the samples are in the disabled track (vid #2) so you will get much faster times, compared to loading a new instrument from scratch (vid #1).

I agree, it's a great workflow.


----------



## staypuft

christianhenson said:


> That old guard is dying or dead, you only need to see Johnny Greenwood's performance at this year's proms to prove that alongside the multitude of composers creating "concert" music who are traditionally trained, notwithstanding my brother Keaton Henson.
> 
> Here's a video that will stoke the RAM debate here (from around 7 minutes in):




Thanks mate. 25GB for the entire template is very impressive. And 7GB for your demo session is even more impressive considering you can strip out the articulations and have such a low memory footprint in a 44 instance project. That should shut put the RAM discussion to an end. I know I will shut up now.

Best costumer support. The owner of the company is giving answers himself and even going to the extent of recording video examples. That's why you are so successful.


----------



## gpwilliams

Alex Fraser said:


> Yes, a bumper tin of Quality Street. Appropriately.



After 112 pages I finally “caved-in”. I preordered BBCSO!
Yesterday I had by weekly appointment with my therapist.

Therapist: you what! Bought another VI! I thought we had this under control.

Me: That’s not all (hesitating) ........ (continuing softly) I also preordered TIME Micro

Therapist: Get out of my office! You are UNTREATABLE. NEVER COME BACK!

who needs a therapist. What a waste of time.

In the US See’s dark chocolates are top quality! So to celebrate, I treated myself to a few. Life is good.


----------



## Fleer

christianhenson said:


> Does Spitfire get a prize when we break the thread length record BTW?


Only if Spitfire shares its price with the thread starter


----------



## jononotbono

When is BBCSO going to be released into the wild?

Also, can I split it across 4 computers (one section per computer)?


----------



## VinRice

The flat version is the video to study. I'll be going through that with a microscope. What's interesting is that the only control modulations going on are Dynamics and Tempo. No Expression or fader movements. Sounds extremely well balanced, like a scoring session, not a concert stage where the woods can get lost.

I don't know how the tempo map is created. I remember his Bernard Hermann mock-up and the tempo map was nuts. Is it adjusted by hand or beat-mapped on the fly? Enquiring minds need to know. I think Andy writes in Digital Performer so this is a transfer to Logic. It's decades since I used DP so I don't know how tempo maps are handled there.

Reminds me of the 50s Hollywood post-romantic 'Viennese School' style (Max Steiner?). Great stuff.


----------



## Tilt & Flow

gpwilliams said:


> After 112 pages I finally “caved-in”. I preordered BBCSO!
> Yesterday I had by weekly appointment with my therapist.
> 
> Therapist: you what! Bought another VI! I thought we had this under control.
> 
> Me: That’s not all (hesitating) ........ (continuing softly) I also preordered TIME Micro
> 
> Therapist: Get out of my office! You are UNTREATABLE. NEVER COME BACK!
> 
> who needs a therapist. What a waste of time.
> 
> In the US See’s dark chocolates are top quality! So to celebrate, I treated myself to a few. Life is good.


I'm in the same boat... both pre-ordered! And yes, See's IS wonderful but got to say Cadbury in UK and Canada is very very good too! Not so in the US though... they give us an inferior Cadbury :/


----------



## dzilizzi

JoeHidden said:


> @christianhenson would you or @SpitfireSupport be so kind to answer my question? Thank you 🙏


The BBCSO is cross platform. The SSD is not. That's a file format thing, not a program thing. You may be better off downloading for each computer. Though I think the OS's can read each other's drives now for copying purposes, you can't run the samples from the same drive, if that makes sense. So buy the Mac format and copy the files to your PC?


----------



## dzilizzi

jononotbono said:


> When is BBCSO going to be released into the wild?
> 
> Also, can I split it across 4 computers (one section per computer)?


Why would you need to? It is not RAM hungry.


----------



## TGV

christianhenson said:


> Here's a video


that touched me. It was a bit rambly, and I'm nowhere in the same situation as you, but it did feel as if you hit a few true notes. Yours is a rare voice. Don't let it get lost in the insanity that is online business.

Now back to our main program: GAS.


----------



## dzilizzi

gpwilliams said:


> After 112 pages I finally “caved-in”. I preordered BBCSO!
> Yesterday I had by weekly appointment with my therapist.
> 
> Therapist: you what! Bought another VI! I thought we had this under control.
> 
> Me: That’s not all (hesitating) ........ (continuing softly) I also preordered TIME Micro
> 
> Therapist: Get out of my office! You are UNTREATABLE. NEVER COME BACK!
> 
> who needs a therapist. What a waste of time.
> 
> In the US See’s dark chocolates are top quality! So to celebrate, I treated myself to a few. Life is good.


You know, they money you save not paying a therapist will cover the cost of both.... just saying.


----------



## Daniel James

christianhenson said:


> Here's a video that will stoke the RAM debate here



Actually I think quite the opposite, lovely video mate and perfectly clarified the info I was looking for. Also really happy to see the AndyB demo running smooth too. My hype is back on the rise.

-DJ


----------



## JoeHidden

dzilizzi said:


> The BBCSO is cross platform. The SSD is not. That's a file format thing, not a program thing. You may be better off downloading for each computer. Though I think the OS's can read each other's drives now for copying purposes, you can't run the samples from the same drive, if that makes sense. So buy the Mac format and copy the files to your PC?



Thanks for your answer. Yes that is fine. My concern was, that there is an activation process or something like that, which prevent the use on my MacBook if i bought the Windows Version or vice versa.

Edit: Ok, and after i visited the Spitfire Page again - I saw that the question Windows / Mac is only applicable if you order the ssd. Sorry guys - I was distracted with all the beautiful demos  Thank you @dzilizzi


----------



## jononotbono

christianhenson said:


> A glimpse into the wonderful mind of Andy Blaney:




If I could write just 1 bar of music that sounds as good as that I’d be feeling pretty positive about things! Truly amazing.


----------



## prodigalson

jononotbono said:


> If I could write just 1 bar of music that sounds as good as that I’d be feeling pretty positive about things! Truly amazing.



To add insult to injury, I believe CH mentioned at some point that he only had the library for 48hrs before sending that in?...seems miraculous to me


----------



## jononotbono

prodigalson said:


> To add insult to injury, I believe CH mentioned at some point that he only had the library for 48hrs before sending that in?...seems miraculous to me



FFS. I would love to see a video on him writing and using samples. Obviously he’s a brilliant composer and orchestrator but he can manipulate samples like a boss. One of the best that’s for sure!


----------



## Zedcars

prodigalson said:


> To add insult to injury, I believe CH mentioned at some point that he only had the library for 48hrs before sending that in?...seems miraculous to me


Yes, but it may have been simmering before that until the finest ingredients became available to finish it. Or it could indeed have been all conceived and written in that 48 hour period. I’ve heard great things are achieved when under the pressure of a deadline - sometimes better than something which is crafted over a much longer period. It would be interesting to find out.


----------



## rlw

christianhenson said:


> A glimpse into the wonderful mind of Andy Blaney:



Bravo ! I can hear the audience clapping .


----------



## JoeHidden

Yes, it is really stunning.


----------



## smoothielova

The sound is incredible. I just wish there was playable string runs patches like Mural or Chamber. I wanted dedicated woodwind playable runs patches for the longest time with their AIR series for years and now they have that for the fltue and piccolo here which is awesome. I know you can use trills and do quick runs. I just wish they had playable runs for all the instruments like other devs out there for each section. That would create so much more realism. Still I am excited for the product and will definitely purchase.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

christianhenson said:


> A glimpse into the wonderful mind of Andy Blaney:




Thanks for sharing. Sounds nice.

May I ask a question: How expressive are the long articulations on both violins 1+2, Violas and cellos. Did you have molto vibrato in the sense that you can a create expressive soaring lines? In the demo I sense a bit of a more restrained typical tamed filmsound playing(which is nice, don´t get me wrong), just interested if you recorded also lets say that overly expressivo vibrato? Nobody probably cares here for that, but I do..and can´t get enough of those 40s soaring stuff as this is what I personally write.


----------



## FinGael

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Thanks for sharing. Sounds nice.
> 
> May I ask a question: How expressive are the long articulations on both violins 1+2, Violas and cellos. Did you have molto vibrato in the sense that you can a create expressive soaring lines? In the demo I sense a bit of a more restrained typical tamed filmsound playing(which is nice, don´t get me wrong), just interested if you recorded also lets say that overly expressivo vibrato? Nobody probably cares here for that, but I do..and can´t get enough of those 40s soaring stuff as this is what I personally write.



Interested in this too. One can always layer other libraries with a strong and expressive vibrato for those parts, but would be nice if it is possible to do it using only BBCSO strings.


----------



## Alex Fraser

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Thanks for sharing. Sounds nice.
> 
> May I ask a question: How expressive are the long articulations on both violins 1+2, Violas and cellos. Did you have molto vibrato in the sense that you can a create expressive soaring lines? In the demo I sense a bit of a more restrained typical tamed filmsound playing(which is nice, don´t get me wrong), just interested if you recorded also lets say that overly expressivo vibrato? Nobody probably cares here for that, but I do..and can´t get enough of those 40s soaring stuff as this is what I personally write.


If you check CH’s trailer walkthrough video, he details the vibrato on the violins. If memory serves, V1 has the more intensive vibrato.


----------



## JF

Alex Fraser said:


> If you check CH’s trailer walkthrough video, he details the vibrato on the violins. If memory serves, V1 has the more intensive vibrato.


Here is the segment on vibrato:


----------



## Zedcars

Oh man, why did I spend a $tup1d fortune on VSL stuff?! I should have just waited for this. 🤦‍♂️😭


----------



## CT

Ah, VSL regret. I'm familiar with that. I think BBCSO is much more likely to be the answer I hoped VSL could be years ago.


----------



## Zero&One

Zedcars said:


> I’ve made a countdown timer for the release/activation day...
> 
> https://www.arewethere.yt/Spitfire-Audio-BBC-Symphony-Orchestra/105798.htm



It's in the 30's!


----------



## Noeticus

I too spent a fortune on the complete VSL Library (VI Series), but I still think it sounds fantastic! I just never liked their player.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Thx so much guys.will check out the video.


----------



## Zedcars

Sorry to spam the thread...I’ll try and post a bit less. Just wanted to ask if anyone is watching the Last Night of the Proms featuring the BBC Symphony Orchestra. It really is a glorious sound and so wonderful to see so many nationalities represented in the audience.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Sorry to spam the thread...I’ll try and post a bit less. Just wanted to ask if anyone is watching the Last Night of the Proms featuring the BBC Symphony Orchestra. It really is a glorious sound and so wonderful to see so many nationalities represented in the audience.



Saw bits of it, yes. Great to see the amount of European flags as well. It occurred to me they are the BBC Symphony Orchestra _and Chorus._ I wonder if in a year or two there will be a massive thread about an upcoming expansion pack for the Chorus...


----------



## CT

I love seeing how little Andy is tweaking in that video beyond dynamics. No crazy expression rides, no automating track levels or anything, everything sounding natural and balanced out of the box. Gives me hope that I'm on the right track with my similarly straightforward approach to all this.


----------



## 5Lives

Love the content Spitfire is putting out on this - especially the study MIDI files. I’m most excited about the educational opportunities (as I’m not a professional). Will order the hard drive post release once people get it in their hands. I wish the new iMacs had more than 2 USB-C ports. Sticking with my 2015 iMac for now and will need to get a USB-C to TB2 connector for this hard drive.

@christianhenson You don’t have to do your vlogs but you take the time to share your knowledge and experience with all of us. Thank you so much.


----------



## AEF

Would love to hear the first chairs and how they sound leading sections. I'm a big fan of using First chairs, and have OT Berlin FC but would love a more integrated approach.


----------



## Fleer

Last Night of the Proms was glorious indeed. Kudos to the BBC Symphony Orchestra.


----------



## redlester

christianhenson said:


> That old guard is dying or dead, you only need to see Johnny Greenwood's performance at this year's proms to prove that alongside the multitude of composers creating "concert" music who are traditionally trained, notwithstanding my brother Keaton Henson.
> 
> Here's a video that will stoke the RAM debate here (from around 7 minutes in):




I absolutely love the fact that in the User column of Activity Monitor it says “MacPro-Christ”.


----------



## barteredbride

Christian, I'm on the fence on buying the library, but is there a performance legato patch for the Sleigh Bells? Also, any 'hooves on snow' samples for added Rudolf realism?

I've just started to write my Christmas number 1 record, so this could be just what I'm looking for.


----------



## Karma

5Lives said:


> Sticking with my 2015 iMac for now and will need to get a USB-C to TB2 connector for this hard drive.


Not sure if you're referring to the SSD or the standard HDD here, but if it's SSD I'll be able to confirm this for you tomorrow. I believe the SSD's are USB-C to USB3, with the USB-C being the connection to the SSD.


----------



## Zero&One

Karma said:


> I believe the SSD's are USB-C to USB3, with the USB-C being the connection to the SSD.



That's what support told me the other day


----------



## al_net77

al_net77 said:


> Since I have access to a very fast connection (not at home), is it possible to download the BBCSO *without* installing it on the PC?



Bump the question...


----------



## JoeHidden

@al_net77 - What Do mean exactly? Unsing the samples directly from the Internet without storing it on the local system? I guess this option will not be available. But what should work, is to install the library to a mounted network share, which off course could be "off site" in a cloud datacenter.

But honestly, what is a fast internet access? Your need a dedicated link with 4.4 Gbit / sec. just to be equal with a normal SATA-SSD with brings around 550 MByte / sec. And if you compare it with an PCIE SSD - no way 

Br Joe


----------



## Sovereign

JoeHidden said:


> @al_net77 - What Do mean exactly?


I think he wants to download it at some other place (work I presume) and take the downloaded copy home.


----------



## JoeHidden

@Sovereign - Yeah, that sounds a lot more logical than my "interpretation".


----------



## redlester

al_net77 said:


> Bump the question...



If it were Kontakt I think the answer would be yes, because you download first to a specified folder then finalise the install through Native Access.

But for a Spitfire stand-alone plugin I doubt it, because I think it will install the plugin on the computer you use to download? 

Spitfire would need to confirm.


----------



## Fleer

Personally looking forward to seeing more of that Spitfire stand-alone plugin. Really like the GUI. Makes me conclude that Kontakt’s is getting old in the tooth by the look and feel of it.


----------



## jamwerks

If doable by SF, I'd like to be able to download and use parts of the library on 2 different computers: brass & perc on one and strings & winds on the other. No biggie if not possible, but would be cool...


----------



## al_net77

Sovereign said:


> I think he wants to download it at some other place (work I presume) and take the downloaded copy home.



This.

Just wondering if the Spitfire app does permit a "download only" option.


----------



## christianhenson

Our FAQ section of the site has a lot of answers to the kind of questions being posed here.


----------



## mikeh-375

I'd still like to know about dynamic layers....is it the usual 3?


----------



## christianhenson

To my knowledge it depends on the instrument and articulation style which is why the question is difficult to answer!


----------



## mikeh-375

fair enough. How about simple sustains then?


----------



## Sovereign

christianhenson said:


> To my knowledge it depends on the instrument and articulation style which is why the question is difficult to answer!


I think it's rather important to know if the strings or brass stop at f or go ff, for example. Don't think it's difficult to answer, since the answer is right there, in the recordings and what you asked the players to play.


----------



## paulthomson

Sovereign said:


> I think it's rather important to know if the strings or brass stop at f or go ff, for example. Don't think it's difficult to answer, since the answer is right there, in the recordings and what you asked the players to play.



I think you can hear the answer to that in Andy Blaney’s demo! 

There’s no great secret about it, it just varies from instrument to instrument and articulation to articulation - we’ve used our experience of recording orchestral samples to get the maximum flexibility without making your machine fall to its knees because it’s playing back more layers than necessary. 

There will be quite a few videos coming over the next few weeks so you can see and judge whether you like the sound using the most valuable critic - your ears..!


----------



## mikeh-375

Paul, will you at some stage publish a breakdown of the dynamics available for each artic? I for one as a trained composer and scorer am extremely interested in what can be done and as you know, realism is inextricably bound to balance and therefore dynamics.


----------



## Noeticus

Why not just list all the info that will be included? As in, a very detailed list of what each instrument offers from dynamics to how many round robins etc. etc...


----------



## 5Lives

Noeticus said:


> Why not just list all the info that will be included? As in, a very detailed list of what each instrument offers from dynamics to how many round robins etc. etc...



I believe they've answered this previously - they are still finishing up the instrument and programming, and thus don't want to promise something that won't make the release.


----------



## 5Lives

Has anybody streamed large sample libraries off of USB 3? Wondering if it'll work well.


----------



## lp59burst

Yes, please divert folks away from working on the core library to spend significant time documenting every single nuance of the library before it's released (or even finalized and out of beta), no matter how subtle or esoteric...

Every articulation, every dynamic layer, every round-robin, every mic used on every mic position on every articulation, all of the midi data on every channel / bus on every DAW with all settings for every plug-in used on every demo, you know... just the basics, etc...


----------



## jamwerks

In understanding the expressive-ability of the library, it's probably just as much about how and what they've recorded, and how all that has been pieced together script-wise, as how many raw layers were used to achieve that sound. Imo we should judge the library on it's sound more so than on it's specs. If I were a developer, not sure I'd want to talk about specs and give away all my secrets.


----------



## ridgero

5Lives said:


> Has anybody streamed large sample libraries off of USB 3? Wondering if it'll work well.



USB 3.1. (Gen 2) works fine here on a Mac mini 2018

Christian Henson uses a 2 TB 860 Evo via USB C for his entire sample library on his MacBook Pro.


----------



## Noeticus

I would have thought that a complete list would have been created before they started recording? 

Well, at least a what-they-want-to-record wish list.


----------



## JF

New info on legato from the FAQ: 
Each of the main instruments (leader and group) includes a legato patch. The strings legato patches include both portamento and slurred transitions, as well as short notes, for a more agile, varied performance. The flute and piccolo ‘Extended’ legato patches include normal slurred transitions, fast run transitions and short staccato notes, all in one patch.


----------



## rottoy

JF said:


> Here is the segment on vibrato:



I must say that I'm far less enthused about the sound signature of the library after watching that video. My wallet is relieved!  (Although that bass trombone is pure sex!)
That being said, this seems to be a phenomenally comprehensive set of orchestral samples.
I wish you all the best with the release! @christianhenson @paulthomson


----------



## lp59burst

Noeticus said:


> I would think that a complete list would have been created before they started recording?
> 
> Well, at least a what-they-want-to-record wish list.


I quite sure they did but, what if some of them didn't make the cut and ended up on the the "to record" list but are not in the final product at release... that would not go well over here on VI-C if that happened.

I agree with @jamwerks we should go by the sound for now and then once they have a more finalized product we see what they provide regarding the details of that product and then each of those who're interested decide if it's for them or not...


----------



## Sovereign

jamwerks said:


> In understanding the expressive-ability of the library, it's probably just as much about how and what they've recorded, and how all that has been pieced together script-wise, as how many raw layers were used to achieve that sound. Imo we should judge the library on it's sound more so than on it's specs. If I were a developer, not sure I'd want to talk about specs and give away all my secrets.


Paul Thomson wrote on the previous page how "there’s no great secret about it", so arguing the number of dynamic layers recorded is or should be a "secret" is undoubtedly more than silly.


----------



## jononotbono

dzilizzi said:


> Why would you need to? It is not RAM hungry.



How much RAM does it take to have every single patch loaded and using multiple Mic Positions? I don't know because I haven't tried it yet... because it's not released yet. Perhaps you know something I don't regarding RAM usage?


----------



## lp59burst

Sovereign said:


> Paul Thomson wrote on the previous page how "there’s no great secret about it", so arguing the number of dynamic layers recorded is or should be a "secret" is undoubtedly more than silly.


I think you may have missed the main thrust of his post... from my reading of it he's saying _sound_ over _sight_... the "secret" part seems to be more of an "oh and by the way..." point


----------



## jbuhler

5Lives said:


> Has anybody streamed large sample libraries off of USB 3? Wondering if it'll work well.


Yes, it’s worked fine with SSDs. i avoid running them through hubs and try to distribute my most often used libraries across drives. I don’t know if that is necessary.


----------



## Sovereign

lp59burst said:


> I think you may have missed the main thrust of his post... from my reading of it he's saying _sound_ over _sight_... the "secret" part seems to be more of an "oh and by the way..." point


Nothing was missed, that seemed more of an easy way out to not tell specifics, a deflection. It's not a secret but we're not telling you anyway because "we" don't think it matters. That would be disappointing if that's the real stance. They might as well come out now and say they will not reveal details about dynamics, which as far as I'm concerned is a major thing.


----------



## JohnG

I am surprised by what some people focus on when buying a library.

I listen to the demos, carefully, through good speakers and sometimes headphones. That's pretty much it. 

I doubt that every single instrument has the same specs regarding legato, velocity layers, and all that. For any library company -- EW, 8dio, SF, Audiobro -- documenting all that and keeping it accurate enough to avoid fusses -- too much brain damage.

I keep buying from companies that put out libraries that sound great when I'm writing a whole piece. I don't really care how many layers there are. There are some libraries with tons of layers that, nevertheless, sound artificial when writing for a full orchestral or orchestral-plus piece.

So at this point I've had awesome results with a few companies, including Spitfire, EW, Spectrasonics, and a few others, and so I trust them and buy if the demo hits something I don't have.

The biggest advantage I'm thinking here is collaboration.


----------



## Zedcars

Spoiler: Thread length record breaking nonsense.



Estimation of No. of Days Until Breaking of Thread Length Record

This is post 2434.

Thread post record = 3199.

Difference of 765.

Therefore, 766 replies required to break the longest thread record.

Average post per day within this thread = 2434/42 = 58.
Approx no. of days until record broken = 766/58 = 13.21

Rounded up = approx 14 days (+- 2 for post fluctuation) until longest thread record broken.

Estimation of thread length on release day = 38 (days) x 58 (post av.) + 2434 = 4638

Yes, I have too much time on my hands and should get on with writing music and stop posting crap.


----------



## Noeticus

I keep wondering if the strings vibrato is a recorded real vibrato or a programmed vibrato, as their articulations list does not even mention vibrato?


----------



## Karma

Noeticus said:


> I keep wondering if the strings vibrato is a recorded real vibrato or a programmed vibrato, as their articulations list does not even mention vibrato?


Very much real!


----------



## Noeticus

Karma said:


> Very much real!



Thanks, plus that's what I thought, but wish was written on the articulation page.


----------



## jononotbono

JohnG said:


> I listen to the demos, carefully, through good speakers and sometimes headphones. That's pretty much it.



This. No regrets yet. Some stuff gets used more than other things but it all gets used if it’s needed. This BBCSO is going to be a fantastic addition to the musical arsenal!


----------



## christianhenson

Very much looking forward to sharing session files for the first time... I'm going to try a hybrid piece with it where everything is BBCSO, even the synthy, bass stuff and by keeping it all native to logic anyone with BBCSO and Logic should be able to load it... We're setting something up as a go-to for all this additional material, more news next week... Right I'm off to tidy my trailer music so when I share it you don't see all my horrid little errors.


----------



## CT

I also agree with JohnG.

At one point, it was probably useful to know all the dynamic/round robin counts in a library, but it seems to get less common for developers to specify this stuff as VI's become more advanced.

I tend to think it's now a given that each playing style will be sampled with as much detail as necessary to create a reasonably playable and expressive patch. The ultimate test of this is, of course, just how the thing sounds. The demos so far tell me that this virtual orchestra is quite expressive.

I would expect BBCSO to be in line with most others on this. 3 or 4 for regular longs and shorts, 2 for the more "niche" sounds, and 1 for those that realistically only have a single "dynamic layer" in the real world. The RR count is clearly indicated on a number of short patches in the videos we've seen.


----------



## mikeh-375

It looks like me and a few others are in the minority at this point re. dynamic layers. A glance through any score tells the true story, so I'll hold out hope that one day it'll be done well enough to achieve maximum expression in a more realistic and musical way. I'm guessing @miket is right about what we can expect so it'll be back to our ol friend CC11....yes, yes, I know none of it's real, but it could all be better, why settle for less?...still, why the evasions?


----------



## ERIC VALETTE

@christianhenson I noticed that in the old non-detailed version of the list of articulations and in the videos on the construction of the trailer and the demo of Andy Blaney, it was a question of a trumpets a2 patch. In the detailed list of articulations, it is now mentioned a3. What about in the end? 
If both versions exist, could we benefit in the end, which would be very useful in terms of choice of orchestration...  Thank you for your clarifications and congratulations already for this exciting new product!


----------



## babylonwaves

miket said:


> At one point, it was probably useful to know all the dynamic/round robin counts in a library, but it seems to get less common for developers to specify this stuff as VI's become more advanced.


i was biting my tongue when I saw all the comments re. number of layers and RRs. in fact, i have absolutely no clue as for those specs in all the libs I own. i simply don't care. all that counts for me is that it feels and sounds right. and i know a couple of libs with impressive specs which are just useless in the real world, at least for me. spitfire libs are not among those.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Great to hear about the community sharing repository. I’m looking at doing a full on Christmas track for which I’ll share the logic files. Hence my insistence that the library has sleigh and tubular bells. Which it does. 😎


----------



## Zedcars

Re: this no. of dynamic layers and RR question:

Isn’t it more a question of having enough information to decide to purchase based on whether you feel this library will fit your needs?

Perhaps impressive demos are not enough. Personally I find the information provided and the demos compelling enough for me to have already preordered. But if you are still on the fence and would like to have more detailed info, perhaps it would help make a good decision.


----------



## Noeticus

More information is better than less in regards to VST Libraries.


----------



## jamwerks

In addition to the usual walk-through, I'd love to see a video with some short idiomatic examples (reworked & polished rather than just live playing), that really showcase the express-ability of the library. The two biggies are Horns & Trumpets from pp to FF, there are so many timbral possibilities here. Also String FF melodies like in 8dio Agitato Grandioso. And very soft melodies on Flutes & Clarinets. 

Also simulating grace note figures with the legato, and lastly showing how controlable the short notes are (length wise via the release trails). Those are the "layer-specs" I'm interested in!


----------



## barteredbride

Re: dynamic layers. Orchestral Tools berlin oboe in the expansion pack, is only ONE single dynamic layer (mf), but that patch regulary wins votes for the most expressive oboe out there.

So it's not that the most dynamic layers possible = more realism.

It's more about how it was recorded, the player, the scripting, etc. And yes, your ears are the best judge. I don't think i've ever seen a Spitfire walkthrough that wasn't honest about what the library can and can't do.


----------



## synthetic

8dio also has great patches with a single dynamic layer and programmed/filtered dynamics from that. I think "specs" like that and library size miss the point.

My new acid test is repeated notes in legato. If you play the same note twice, does it go "nnah-dah" or "nnah-nnyaah"? Seems obvious but almost every library I own has this problem. (I guess few companies record "0 semitone" transitions?)


----------



## South Thames

Spitfire folks -- Homay's demo is absolutely mind bogglingly exquisite. Probably the most beautiful thing ever written to demo a library. I always look forward to her more poetic take on your products, but this was something else.

It would be great to have a walkthrough of this! -- it uses the library in a way that's much more in tune with how some of like to use these tools than the typical Spitfire walkthroughs.


----------



## Sovereign

barteredbride said:


> Re: dynamic layers. Orchestral Tools berlin oboe in the expansion pack, is only ONE single dynamic layer (mf), but that patch regulary wins votes for the most expressive oboe out there.


I believe you misunderstood the praise it gets, since only having a very good solo mf legato does not mean the patch is not limited in any serious way. You’re making it sound like one layer is adequate. So when you conclude this:



> So it's not that the most dynamic layers possible = more realism.


You start from a false assumption, no one is arguing for “most dynamic layers possible”. One does need a certain amount of real recorded dynamics to get a decent form of realism in there. If you believe a single layer with a filter is an adequate substitute then you’ve lost me, sorry.


----------



## Sovereign

synthetic said:


> My new acid test is repeated notes in legato. If you play the same note twice, does it go "nnah-dah" or "nnah-nnyaah"? Seems obvious but almost every library I own has this problem. (I guess few companies record "0 semitone" transitions?)


Jaeger, Synchron and CSS/CSB do this, not sure about Cinesamples.


----------



## ism

South Thames said:


> Spitfire folks -- Homay's demo is absolutely mind bogglingly exquisite. Probably the most beautiful thing ever written to demo a library. I always look forward to her more poetic take on your products, but this was something else.
> 
> It would be great to have a walkthrough of this! -- it uses the library in a way that's much more in tune with how some of like to use these tools than the typical Spitfire walkthroughs.


+1


----------



## Mishabou

christianhenson said:


> Very much looking forward to sharing session files for the first time... I'm going to try a hybrid piece with it where everything is BBCSO, even the synthy, bass stuff and by keeping it all native to logic anyone with BBCSO and Logic should be able to load it... We're setting something up as a go-to for all this additional material, more news next week... Right I'm off to tidy my trailer music so when I share it you don't see all my horrid little errors.



This is great, being able to load the session and learn from other experienced composer is a major selling point for me.


----------



## VinRice

I confess I have absolutely no idea what the obsession is with the number of dynamic layers. 'Sufficient' is the answer. An increased number bears no relationship to increased realism. The smoothness and phase coherence of the crossfade, and the quality of your writing and orchestration are the paths to enlightenment.

Some people seem to enjoy searching for cudgels to attack or concoct conspiracy theories.


----------



## barteredbride

Sovereign said:


> If you believe a single layer with a filter is an adequate substitute then you’ve lost me, sorry.


I didn´t actually say at any point that a single layer with a filter is an adequate substitute for dynamic layers, I only made the point that there are products out there that don´t have multiple dynamic layers and they work very well.


----------



## Noeticus

Sometimes... Negative comments can be helpful in pushing VST developers to provide better content.


----------



## Noeticus

I believe that a VST library should have a minimum of 3 dynamic layers for instruments where this is applicable, but 5 would be preferred. Same goes for Round Robins.


----------



## ism

VinRice said:


> An increased number bears no relationship to increased realism.



This is an overstatement also. It's a relationship very much dependent on the instrument and very many other things besides. But its still an important relationship.

I've bough string libraries only realize that they lack a decent soft layer, and that therefore the instrument just doesn't hold up for any soft exposed passages.


Worse, the fake dynamics then give it this uncanniness that your average listener wouldn't necessarily understand as unrealistic, but the uncanniness has this, kind of ... unpleasant ... quality.


And at least arguably worse still, I've bought instrument that sounded in the demos like they had decent dynamics, but that turn out to have simulated dynamics on 1 or two dynamic layers. And so again when I try to write something in a style that doesn't minimize the dyanmics as in the demos, its not that its obviously 'unrealistic', but that this is the fake dynamics can really give this quality that I find particularly unpleasant in its uncanniness - precisely because its not always immediately obvious that its the 'fake' dyanmics giving rise to this uncanny quality. Its like an itch that you can't quite locate in order to scratch it.


Of course, there are lots of contexts in which the number of dynamic layer don't matter. I mean you can always just add lots of fff trombones, in which case the dynamic nuances of the p -> mp of your lyrical oboe isn't going to matter so much. But I find I tend to like to (try to) write in a way to leans on dynamics perhaps a bit more that your average demo.

Similarly, the OT exp B winds do sound truly wonderful - so long as you play within the constrains of the single dynamic layer. But this is a constraint that I think would really bother me at times given how I like to write - not that I wouldn't also love to have them for the times I would be ok with staying within those dynamic constrains.

So in this context, I'm sure you'll agree that 'how many dynamic layers?' it at least a fair question, no?


----------



## cola2410

@christianhenson et al...Sorry for asking if I missed anything but... could you Spitfire folks please also create a BBCSO template for Cubase? I would also pay for it instantly.


----------



## ed buller

VinRice said:


> I confess I have absolutely no idea what the obsession is with the number of dynamic layers. 'Sufficient' is the answer. An increased number bears no relationship to increased realism. The smoothness and phase coherence of the crossfade, and the quality of your writing and orchestration are the paths to enlightenment.
> 
> Some people seem to enjoy searching for cudgels to attack or concoct conspiracy theories.



Respectfully this is just not the case. One of the reasons ( among many ) that Mr Zimmer's Personal Sample Library is something from Olympus is the number of dynamics. 10 + among the Brass and strings....and the cross fades are seamless...........unbelievable .

Best

ed


----------



## CT

mikeh-375 said:


> yes, yes, I know none of it's real, but it could all be better, why settle for less?



I agree completely, but as I don't have the cash to send to Spitfire or any developer, with the condition that it be used to record dozens of extra dynamic layers that are blended seamlessly together, I will indeed have to settle for less.

I hesitate to call it settling, though. What we are able to do with virtual instruments is astonishing to me, and though I was initially very skeptical about all this, coming from a more or less classical background, I've long since accepted that this is a different world that operates by different principles. 

I will always write with real players and instruments in mind, but I know that my route to a satisfying virtual performance is going to have to detour around certain "realisms." As long as the final result sounds musical and satisfying, I'm not too bothered.

As for why developers might be evasive about this information... well... I doubt the answer is ever as extravagant as some would hope. Better to let ears decide whether ppp and fff are proper or not, than list dynamic layers and by default alienate those who are going to judge based on that.


----------



## dzilizzi

jononotbono said:


> How much RAM does it take to have every single patch loaded and using multiple Mic Positions? I don't know because I haven't tried it yet... because it's not released yet. Perhaps you know something I don't regarding RAM usage?


Sorry, I'm only going by Christen's YouTube video. It doesn't sound like it is going to be a problem for a normal studio computer. Maybe for a laptop with 16 GB RAM. But I would think multiple mic positions wouldn't be a problem for a 32 to 64 GB RAM computer. Maybe I'm assuming too much?


----------



## jononotbono

dzilizzi said:


> Sorry, I'm only going by Christen's YouTube video. It doesn't sound like it is going to be a problem for a normal studio computer. Maybe for a laptop with 16 GB RAM. But I would think multiple mic positions wouldn't be a problem for a 32 to 64 GB RAM computer. Maybe I'm assuming too much?



Guess its best to be safe and get a computer for each articulation.


----------



## jamwerks

ed buller said:


> 10 + among the Brass and strings....and the cross fades are seamless...........unbelievable .


10 layers on longs? I'd love to hear what that sounds like !


----------



## Geoff Grace

ridgero said:


> I wonder if the replies correlate with the sold copies.


Oh man, I sure hope not! I can't afford to buy a copy for each post I've made in this thread so far.

Oh no! There goes another $999!

Best,

Geoff


----------



## dzilizzi

jononotbono said:


> Guess its best to be safe a get a computer for each articulation.


That's going to be a lot of computers...


----------



## VinRice

ed buller said:


> Respectfully this is just not the case. One of the reasons ( among many ) that Mr Zimmer's Personal Sample Library is something from Olympus is the number of dynamics. 10 + among the Brass and strings....and the cross fades are seamless...........unbelievable .



I'm sure it sounds amazing because... Hans, and if anybody is going to have the largest, most expensive sample library on the planet then it will be Mr Z, but that's not actually a 'proof' that it is superior because of having 10 layers as opposed to say, 5. 

Totally impractical for a commercial orchestra product of course.


----------



## VinRice

miket said:


> As for why developers might be evasive about this information... well... I doubt the answer is ever as extravagant as some would hope. Better to let ears decide whether ppp and fff are proper or not, than list dynamic layers and by default alienate those who are going to judge based on that.



Exactly so.


----------



## VinRice

Noeticus said:


> Sometimes... Negative comments can be helpful in pushing VST developers to provide better content.



Well I think constructive criticism would be a better tactic if you want to be taken seriously.


----------



## KEM

ed buller said:


> Respectfully this is just not the case. One of the reasons ( among many ) that Mr Zimmer's Personal Sample Library is something from Olympus is the number of dynamics. 10 + among the Brass and strings....and the cross fades are seamless...........unbelievable .
> 
> Best
> 
> ed



Wait... seriously?


----------



## ed buller

Standard Orchestral Dynamic markings. PPP PP P MP MF F FF FFF and a couple for extra !

makes sense to me

best

ed


----------



## ed buller

VinRice said:


> I'm sure it sounds amazing because... Hans, and if anybody is going to have the largest, most expensive sample library on the planet then it will be Mr Z, but that's not actually a 'proof' that it is superior because of having 10 layers as opposed to say, 5.
> 
> Totally impractical for a commercial orchestra product of course.



the dynamic range of strings and brass can not really be expressed accurately in 5 dynamic layers. It's obviously a compromise that has to be made for a commercial product Perhaps no one will notice but I suspect a player would !

best

ed


----------



## mikeh-375

VinRice said:


> I confess I have absolutely no idea what the obsession is with the number of dynamic layers. 'Sufficient' is the answer. An increased number bears no relationship to increased realism. The smoothness and phase coherence of the crossfade, and the quality of your writing and orchestration are the paths to enlightenment.
> 
> Some people seem to enjoy searching for cudgels to attack or concoct conspiracy theories.



Vin, just for the record, I for one am not attacking anyone, my questions about dynamic layers are valid on several counts - as a customer and as a trained composer - I trust you can appreciate that. I hesitated to use the adjective 'trained', as it sounds poncy, but it is perhaps a distinction worth mentioning. My needs are admittedly different in that I now use samples as a way of writing concert music, my media days are behind me. I understand and accept that this is at odds with the main thrust SFa's philosophy, their product(s) being promoted for a specific purpose and I certainly have no truck with that whatsoever and love what they do. As Ed and others say above, the line probably has to be drawn somewhere commercially speaking, but the actual compromise erodes the credibility and efficacy for me, restricting the full potential.

I'd also agree that "sufficient" layers are enough and you can certainly do well with three, but I dispute absolutley, the notion that more layers has no bearing on realism. Issues of balance, proportion and timbre are (as you probably know) vital for successful scoring in the real world and a dynamically expressive template that does not rely on a CC11 cresc or dim for more extreme dynamics is essential for heightened realism and more potent aesthetic expressivity. Besides, if extra layers where baked in, there'd be less bloody work to do...

If realism is the goal, more dynamic layers will get you even further along the line if you know what you are doing. I do and it can be frustrating at times but I do acknowledge that my needs are in the minority.


----------



## jononotbono

I’m pretty sure HZ has said on here that he’s up to 56 layers in his personal library. I could have been drunk though and remembering this wrong.


----------



## KEM

jononotbono said:


> I’m pretty sure HZ has said on here that he’s up to 56 layers in his personal library. I could have been drunk though and remembering this wrong.



Wait, 56 dynamic layers in one patch?


----------



## al_net77

KEM said:


> Wait, 56 dynamic layers in one patch?



And it was only the triangle...


----------



## mikeh-375

miket said:


> ...........I hesitate to call it settling, though. What we are able to do with virtual instruments is astonishing to me, and though I was initially very skeptical about all this, coming from a more or less classical background, I've long since accepted that this is a different world that operates by different principles.



We'll have to disagree there @miket (respectfully of course). It _is_ 'settling' imv (I'm now speaking generally about samples and not SFA exclusively) but worse still, it impinges on what can be musically done convincingly by limiting options, therefore stymieing creative breadth. Limitations like this tend to dictate too much imv when all that's needed really as a minimum is perhaps 5 layers, not 3. 

We of course agree that its a different beast from reality and compromise is essential, I just don't agree as to where the cut is made. To my consumer mind, I'd rather see less mic options and a company selling the acoustics as a separate plug -in perhaps,(if possible) to make way for more layers if space, practicality or other considerations are an issue. I'd rather see a product like this rolled out with serious intent and commitment over a length of time, perhaps in sections as they did with their earlier series, but with just 2 more layers - is that too much to ask for? That'd do me as a compromise, but then again it's a lovely day here with a beautiful vanilla sky...oh...hang on...and of course, I like the other billion of us here, despite the posturing, am still thinking of getting it...oh gawd.


----------



## muk

Number of velocity layers is a relevant technical information in my opinion. I'm sure Spitfire Audio can provide the info if asked nicely and given the time to compile the list. A decision has to be made for each instrument and each articulation: where is the sweet spot between the depiction of timbral nuances of an instrument, and resource consumption (cpu, ram, and disk space)? As is obvious by the discussion above, not every person has the same preference here. Thus it's relevant info to know how Spitfire decided, so each person can make up their minds whether that decision fits their needs.

That being said, it is not as simple as more dynamic layers automatically being better. The crossfade point between two layers could be audible, for example. In that case three layers may be better than five. Or there could be an abundance of velocity layers, but they still don't really catch the timbral varieties of the instrument/section. As being the case with VSL Synchron Strings in my opinion. That library has 8 dynamic layers, yet the timbre sounds uniform and flat to me. There is definitely such a thing as too little layers, though. Only two for the brass, for example, are never going to catch the huge timbral varieties of that instrument family.


----------



## mikeh-375

true enough @muk, but all things being equal and competently programmed and executed then more layers = more creative options and realism. It surely will be do-able one day. VSL's intention was admirable and one hopes the idea will be perfected at some stage.


----------



## scoringdreams

So now I have a Spitfire Symphony template, Studio template, Albion template, and next up, a BBC template?...


----------



## redlester

Well am about to leave for two weeks holiday on other side of the world. So at bedtime last night I finally ordered it. Standard hard drive option. 😊


----------



## Sovereign

barteredbride said:


> So in this context, I'm sure you'll agree that 'how many dynamic layers?' it at least a fair question, no?


Dynamics recorded are equally as important as the articulations, to me at least. I doubt they went in and told the players "just play at whatever dynamic you want, it's all fine".


----------



## jamwerks

By the going standards, BBC is essentially 6 libraries (including Solo strings and Harp) in one package, all for 750 euros. Expression-wise 3 or 4 layers would cover about 95% of musical situations. I would be happy with those as long as the scripting is well done (as will surely be the case with SF).

Pretty sure CSB has 5 dynamic layers, and I find even that to be too few for those rare cases where exposed brass parts have lots of timbral moves. For those situations, phase aligned libraries might be (currently) the best solution. In the future, multiple types of recorded crescendi & decrescendi followed by matched sustain releases might be possible too. Anyway, I'm sure that SF will always be pushing the bar to the highest possible.

They've said many times "this is just the beginning". I for one would be interested in future add-ons that could cover those 5% extreme cases, even at a high price.


----------



## Alex Fraser

8 round robins for the sleigh bell or no sale.


----------



## Olfirf

Knowing the number of dynamical layers would certainly help as a decider of how much the BBC library is just a flavor of something we already have or indeed a next step. Having lots of dynamic layers in a library is of course not a warranty it will turn out very well (VSL DS), but it certainly is something great when it is executed very well (CSB). Judging from the size, scope and number of mic positions of this library, the first offering will certainly not be something as detailed, as eight dynamic layers! It would need to have the same size for strings only with less mic positions included to make sense ...
In that aspect, it is probably going to be rather underwhelming. But since they said, it is only the first step, maybe some later products will deliver something truly new ... who knows!


----------



## Loïc D

Alex Fraser said:


> 8 round robins for the sleigh bell or no sale.


Then you'd be disappointed anyway since truly REALISTIC sleigh bells would have been recorded on reindeers. In Maida Vale.
And I saw none on the pictures.
Of course, YMMV but I'm pretty specific about sleigh bells, being related to Mr. S. Claus at the 11th degree and a half.


----------



## rudi

... and I hope we also get a choice of different sleigh bell diameters, weights, AND materials as well... plus at least a hundred hand performances, palm mutes, different tunings, close, ultra-close, hyper-close miking as well as the usual orchestral ones, at least a dozen character mikes too... and that's just for starters!


----------



## Alex Fraser

rudi said:


> ... and I hope we also get a choice of different sleigh bell diameters, weights, AND materials as well... plus at least a hundred hand performances, palm mutes, different tunings, close, ultra-close, hyper-close miking as well as the usual orchestral ones, at least a dozen character mikes too... and that's just for starters!


Haha! All jokes aside - what we *will* get is the sound of a sleigh bell recorded close, and from several meters away from a variety of different mic perspectives. Pretty cool. 😎

Also, I can't wait to hear what the orchestra sounds like through the one vintage mono mic.


----------



## Zedcars

I was interested in the possibility of Spitfire recording IRs in Maida Vale because a) it will be flattened in a year or two, and b) it will enable me to record my own sleigh bells and have them sound like Santa is indeed sitting in the same venue as the rest of the orchestra.

Seriously though, it would be amazing if we could blend in other dry libraries seemlessly to this one with a good convo. I did a quick search for Maida Vale IRs but it came up blank.


----------



## Loïc D

Zedcars said:


> I was interested in the possibility of Spitfire recording IRs in Maida Vale because a) it will be flatterned in a year or two,


I thought the same. Spitfire has to rush to record any possible extension before it's closing.
Then, this library will become a UNESCO world heritage...


----------



## PerryD

I have 2 Thunderbolt / usb 3.1 ports on my PC. Both are in use but one is connected to a Thunderbolt drive bay that has two slots that accept HD or SSD. As I understand it, BBCSO comes on an EVO 860 Pro SSD that is _built into_ a Spitfire case. I wonder if it can be removed from the case, so I can use my HD/SSD bay? I understand you can also order on a standard HD but I would rather have a bare SSD if possible.


----------



## Zero&One

PerryD said:


> I wonder if it can be removed from the case, so I can use my HD/SSD bay?



I'm sure @jbuhler asked support and they said it would void the warranty if removed.


----------



## jbuhler

PerryD said:


> I have 2 Thunderbolt / usb 3.1 ports on my PC. Both are in use but one is connected to a Thunderbolt drive bay that has two slots that accept HD or SSD. As I understand it, BBCSO comes on an EVO 860 Pro SSD that is _built into_ a Spitfire case. I wonder if it can be removed from the case, so I can use my HD/SSD bay? I understand you can also order on a standard HD but I would rather have a bare SSD if possible.


I asked support about this and you can remove the drive (it’s SATA) but you void the warranty for the drive if you do. ETA: Also what @James H said.


----------



## rudi

Zedcars said:


> I was interested in the possibility of Spitfire recording IRs in Maida Vale because a) it will be flattened in a year or two, and b) it will enable me to record my own sleigh bells and have them sound like Santa is indeed sitting in the same venue as the rest of the orchestra.
> 
> Seriously though, it would be amazing if we could blend in other dry libraries seemlessly to this one with a good convo. I did a quick search for Maida Vale IRs but it came up blank.


When filling in the Win Everything questionaire from Spitfire Audio, one of the suggestions I made was about having IRs made available, to blend dry libraries in... I didn't win anything


----------



## Zedcars

rudi said:


> I didn't win anything


Tiny violins are playing...with only 1 dynamic layer!


----------



## Leslie Fuller

cola2410 said:


> @christianhenson et al...Sorry for asking if I missed anything but... could you Spitfire folks please also create a BBCSO template for Cubase? I would also pay for it instantly.



I’m sure @christianhenson said earlier in this thread that it is not something SA would do, as none of them have extensive knowledge of Cubase. He said they hoped the community would built a BBCSO Template.


----------



## rudi

Zedcars said:


> Tiny violins are playing...with only 1 dynamic layer!


----------



## VinRice

ed buller said:


> Standard Orchestral Dynamic markings. PPP PP P MP MF F FF FFF and a couple for extra !
> 
> makes sense to me
> 
> best
> 
> ed



I don't have enough experience working with seasoned players to understand whether this is correct or not but, "as quiet as possible" and "as loud as possible" are really the only constants in this context are they not? In a live piece the ones in between are relative to what else is going on. We have to quantise them in some way for the abstraction of scoring and the further abstraction of mock-ups but these levels of timbre/volume are contingent.

I'm not arguing, I really would like to know.

What I do know is that every library I have has a different concept of what those levels are (I remember somebody doing an excellent comparison illustrating this) which points to how contingent these judgements are. The end result is surely far more dependent on the skill of the sample editors and instrument programmers. I suspect that until the process is automated and AI driven (knowledge of relative spectra and loudness over time, integrated over thousands of players and instruments) 'perfection' will always be elusive. In the meantime we can only judge by the sound itself and whether the instrument is suitable for our needs and desires. The number of recorded timbre/volume layers is probably not a sensible metric for judgement.

Spitfire, and every other company in the space it seems, have determined that controlling the acoustic is more useful and attractive to their customers and a better use of finite corporate resources.

We buy into that or we don't.


----------



## mistermister

VinRice said:


> What I do know is that every library I have has a different concept of what those levels are


An issue is more that dynamics are largely based on player's experience, what everyone else is doing in the section, and context of the music at the time of playing. As you demonstrated with different libraries, one player's _mf_ isn't the same as another's - it's not even necessarily even the same _mf_ they played early depending on what else is going on with the orchestra at the time. Labeling as such is difficult because of this. I find it as more of a rough guide in orchestral libs.

Plus this is part of the fun in writing music (and with samples) in the first place - learning to write for context, with the tools you have. AI-perfect libraries will just likely result in horribly sterile sounding work.


----------



## VinRice

Zedcars said:


> I was interested in the possibility of Spitfire recording IRs in Maida Vale because a) it will be flattened in a year or two, and b) it will enable me to record my own sleigh bells and have them sound like Santa is indeed sitting in the same venue as the rest of the orchestra.
> 
> Seriously though, it would be amazing if we could blend in other dry libraries seemlessly to this one with a good convo. I did a quick search for Maida Vale IRs but it came up blank.



I think this is a fantastic idea. We know it's _verboten_ at Air but the BBC needs every penny it can scrounge for its music program and that building is definitely coming down, so they may well be up for it. Interesting to know what Spitfire's attitude to this is/would be.


----------



## Noeticus

The IMPULSE RESPONSE that many are looking for from inside the MAIDA VALE STUDIO space already exists, as in, you can use the already recorded tail of a glockenspiel strike, or the hit of a triangle, from the BBCSO VST to import into Altiverb.

But then, I could be wrong. 

see...


----------



## Ruffian Price

It's sweep from a studio monitor or bust for me, I never get the same results with just capturing transient sounds. AFAIK Altiverb only has correction for standardized clapperboards.


----------



## Zedcars

Can’t we just sneak in there at night with a dictaphone, clap a few times and leave? 🤔


----------



## Ruffian Price

Definitely get some IRs after Maida Vale gets demolished. Could go great with Pripyat Pianos.


----------



## AndyP

Alex Fraser said:


> 8 round robins for the sleigh bell or no sale.


Are you sure that's enough?


----------



## gtrwll

I'm not really that interested in sleigh bells...as far as I know, this whole library was recorded at Maida Vale, and everyone knows that the real name of Santa Claus is Joulupukki and he lives in Korvatunturi, Finland, and THAT's the place you write letters to when in need of authentic sleigh bell samples.


----------



## ed buller

VinRice said:


> The number of recorded timbre/volume layers is probably not a sensible metric for judgement.




On it's own perhaps not but I can assure you the most realistic Library I have ever used is Hans's. And in no small measure that is due to the fantastic programming that went into the samples and the number of those samples. The velocity layers in particular. If you had a violin player in your house and asked them to go from very soft to very loud you'll hear how different the sound is. It's not just a volume thing. The entire nature of the instrument changes. This is also true of Brass. Less in the woods but still. The dynamic markings used are there for a reason. Just listen to some good recordings 



Just listen to the opening. Very low dynamic markings

best

ed


----------



## CT

mikeh-375 said:


> To my consumer mind, I'd rather see less mic options



Again, I agree! This is definitely where I would suggest things be trimmed to make room for other content. They can even still be available, individually downloadable for those with the drive space and the need, but I'll take a great stereo mix in most cases.


----------



## Zedcars

rudi said:


>



I remember that advert! Funny how I recall useless junk like old adverts, yet I struggle to locate my car keys sometimes.


----------



## Loïc D

gtrwll said:


> I'm not really that interested in sleigh bells...as far as I know, this whole library was recorded at Maida Vale, and everyone knows that the real name of Santa Claus is Joulupukki and he lives in Korvatunturi, Finland, and THAT's the place you write letters to when in need of authentic sleigh bell samples.


Are there Quality Street out there ?


----------



## rudi

Salty liquorice?


----------



## Zedcars

This is the earliest filmed recording of the BBC Symphony Orchestra from 1932, conducted by Adrian Boult, performing part of Elgar’s First Pomp and Circumstance March which includes Land of Hope and Glory:



I’m not sure if any restoration work has been done on the sound, but it is exceptionally clear considering the recording equipment is ancient. This is even before the ‘BBC Type A Marconi’ microphone circa 1934 which was used in Spitfire’s marketing for this library.

Interesting to compare the sonic properties of those older microphones with those of today. I think they hold their own and have immense character.


----------



## jbuhler

Film recordings of orchestra from even the late 1920s can sound surprisingly good. I've found this to be true of both Vitaphone discs, which can sound exceptional, and with Movietone sound on film. Since this film dates from 1932 it was likely sound on film, though I don't know for certain what British Pathé was using at that point or if New Empire Review was an imprint of British Pathé. 

I'll add that these recordings likely sound far better today than they ever did at the time, not because the recordings have been cleaned up (though that might have happened too) but because reproducing sound in theaters designed for live musical performance was a much larger problem. The reproducing equipment was also a lot more finicky and required an experienced operator to run it effectively.


----------



## AndyP

gtrwll said:


> I'm not really that interested in sleigh bells...as far as I know, this whole library was recorded at Maida Vale, and everyone knows that the real name of Santa Claus is Joulupukki and he lives in Korvatunturi, Finland, and THAT's the place you write letters to when in need of authentic sleigh bell samples.


So this man here posed as a Finn, and he swore they were original Finnish sleigh bells with at least 127 layers. But his strange British accent seemed strange to me.


----------



## Fleer

gtrwll said:


> I'm not really that interested in sleigh bells...as far as I know, this whole library was recorded at Maida Vale, and everyone knows that the real name of Santa Claus is Joulupukki and he lives in Korvatunturi, Finland, and THAT's the place you write letters to when in need of authentic sleigh bell samples.


Worse even, I had to visit him with the faculty dean when I lectured at the Arctic Circle's Rovaniemi University and each of us had to sit on one of his knees. Visited the man's post office as well:
https://santaclausvillage.info/arctic-circle-rovaniemi-finland/


----------



## synthetic

Doubling the dynamic layers doubles the development cost of the library. Twice as much recording and editing. While adding mics... well it's not free, someone has to cut the samples and they have to host the data. But it's much more economical. And I don't think this thread would have 126 pages if the library cost $1750.


----------



## KEM

Ruffian Price said:


> Definitely get some IRs after Maida Vale gets demolished. Could go great with Pripyat Pianos.



I just looked up Pripyat Pianos and now I have to buy it, thanks a lot lol


----------



## VinRice

synthetic said:


> Doubling the dynamic layers doubles the development cost of the library. Twice as much recording and editing. While adding mics... well it's not free, someone has to cut the samples and they have to host the data. But it's much more economical. And I don't think this thread would have 126 pages if the library cost $1750.



Don't come here with your fancy financial realities. We demand perfection!


----------



## FinGael

AndyP said:


> So this man here posed as a Finn, and he swore they were original Finnish sleigh bells with at least 127 layers. But his strange British accent seemed strange to me.



The person you are looking for is not available at the moment.

_"Have been really busy with putting the Finnishing touches to the library, and building an office for mr Claus in Edinburgh. See you all soon! Best regards, Rodney the Christmas Dinosaur, Rudolf and the rest of the team.

PS. Christmas may come sooner this year than you had expected."_


----------



## Denkii

The FAQ page now mentions, that BBCSO will indeed be part of the upcoming black Friday and Christmas sales. Didn't it specifically state the opposite earlier?


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

Denkii said:


> The FAQ page now mentions, that BBCSO will indeed be part of the upcoming black Friday and Christmas sales. Didn't it specifically state the opposite earlier?



Not really. They stated it will be part of the sale, but it will only go down to the introduction / pre-order price.


----------



## Zero&One

Denkii said:


> The FAQ page now mentions, that BBCSO will indeed be part of the upcoming black Friday and Christmas sales. Didn't it specifically state the opposite earlier?



It did yes, but was changed a few days later. It was very clear.
They said to me it was originally to give users the reassurance it wouldn’t drop further in price come sale time.
So good for late adopters.


----------



## Denkii

James H said:


> It did yes, but was changed a few days later. It was very clear.
> They said to me it was originally to give users the reassurance it wouldn’t drop further in price come sale time.
> So good for late adopters.


Thank you. I thought I was going mad.
So no need to rush. Let those reviews roll in.
@Cory Pelizzari any chance you plan on picking this up? :emoji_angel:


----------



## Alex Fraser

VinRice said:


> Don't come here with your fancy financial realities. We demand perfection!


----------



## Ruffian Price

Is the mic perspectives overview video landing this week? I'm still curious about the target Atmos workflow. If the quad height channels are pre-mixed, there has to be a specific mic blend they're meant to be used _with. _Having a premade 5.1.4 setup would be downright glorious.


----------



## BassClef

So... the introductory price of $749 runs through 11/04, and then drops back to that price again on Black Friday?


----------



## Noeticus

Ruffian Price said:


> Is the mic perspectives overview video landing this week? I'm still curious about the target Atmos workflow. If the quad height channels are pre-mixed, there has to be a specific mic blend they're meant to be used _with. _Having a premade 5.1.4 setup would be downright glorious.



And, let's hope there is also a 7.1.4 as well.


----------



## Noeticus

BassClef said:


> So... the introductory price of $749 runs through 11/04, and then drops back to that price again on Black Friday?



Should be a YES.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

BassClef said:


> So... the introductory price of $749 runs through 11/04, and then drops back to that price again on Black Friday?



They should just keep the intro price right through until Black Friday, which is Nov 29.


----------



## Noeticus

But then Black Friday would not be special.


----------



## Hadrondrift

Maybe it comes with a free Henson action figure when at full price.


----------



## Zero&One

BassClef said:


> So... the introductory price of $749 runs through 11/04, and then drops back to that price again on Black Friday?



Then again at Christmas.

I think this BBC version should be a hard fixed price personally, the one it's at now. It would fit with the whole community vibe thing and "universal starting point" they are promoting.


----------



## sostenuto

Seems strong offering and good Intro pricing .... _but_ size /cost makes me wish for Lite version with minimal Upgrade cost .... _a la SF _ Core / Pro, or Audiobro._

Purchase at Intro requires large new SSD(s),


----------



## Noeticus

And...


----------



## paulthomson

Hey all; - when making an atmos mix we suggest - 

"Atmos front and rear" are designed to go into the x.x.4
Essentially the "Sides" can go where ever the mixer feels good to them
Tree/Outs in the LCR and Amb/Balcony in the rear. 
Close/Mids in LR

But of course - its horses for courses, its like you have the multitrack right there and you can mix it to your taste.

Thanks,

Paul


----------



## Fleer

sostenuto said:


> Seems strong offering and good Intro pricing .... _but_ size /cost makes me wish for Lite version with minimal Upgrade cost .... _a la SF _ Core / Pro, or Audiobro._
> 
> Purchase at Intro requires large new SSD(s),


I’m closely watching Samsung T5 SSD pricing 
Then again, that Spitfire SSD contains one of the latest and greatest Samsung drives.


----------



## BassClef

For BBCSO... I'm running low on storage... rather than drop $200 on the Spitfire SSD, I'll likely buy another one of these... (see below) I already have one with two 1TB SSDs. And then pick up a 2TB 2.5" SSD for around $200-225. So for 50% more than the Spitfire SSD, I'll have 2TB and can later drop in another 2TB for a total of 4TB in that enclosure. I have pretty fast internet speeds so downloading is of no concern.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1297767-REG/owc_other_world_computing_owcmemdc2kit_mercury_elite_pro_dual.html/?ap=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A514&gclid=Cj0KCQjwiILsBRCGARIsAHKQWLM1Gbf5TNjTEL05gYDYLiUQ83T5fBzZHoBELTb8F8aynojHuhd5u6waAv-vEALw_wcB


----------



## CT

It looks like this library is what has finally backed me into a corner with my current iMac. The CPU is under minimum specification, my internal SSD will lose a lot of breathing room with this installed, and as far as I understand it, streaming samples from an external SSD via USB 2.0 or Thunderbolt (my only options on a 2011 machine) is a fool's errand. 

Hope family is generous this Christmas....


----------



## sostenuto

Fleer said:


> I’m closely watching Samsung T5 SSD pricing
> Then again, that Spitfire SSD contains one of the latest and greatest Samsung drives.



Also watching SanDisk 2TB Extreme USB-C, USB 3.1 @ $280. 

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sandisk+2+tb+ssd+usb-c&ref=nb_sb_noss_2


----------



## Alex Fraser

miket said:


> It looks like this library is what has finally backed me into a corner with my current iMac. The CPU is under minimum specification, my internal SSD will lose a lot of breathing room with this installed, and as far as I understand it, streaming samples from an external SSD via USB 2.0 or Thunderbolt (my only options on a 2011 machine) is a fool's errand.
> 
> Hope family is generous this Christmas....


Hey Miket. As you know, we’ve got the same machine. I have an SSD on thunderbolt (gen 1) and it works great. Maybe not as rapid as newer standards but perfectly useable. If you want I’ll post a video of a large library loading so you can get a feel for the speed. 
A


----------



## CT

I had a feeling I'd been wrong about that all this time... that changes everything! Are you using an enclosure, or just an adapter cable?


----------



## Ruffian Price

Thunderbolt definitely wins on I/O latency, if you compare results from CrystalDiskMark USB 3 SSDs will have drastically reduced performance on the "4kB files at random positions" test because of the interface's access delays (I actually have the SanDisk Extreme 2TB - bandwidth for copying a large file is comparable to internal SATA3, while the 4K test is ~10x slower). I haven't found it to be too much of a problem with Kontakt streaming though - that's what the preload buffer is for.


----------



## Sovereign

Just upgraded the internal drive of my 2013 Mac Pro with a 2TB NVME Samsung 970 EVO Plus, in anticipation of this library. I'm just not so sure an external drive is the best option in terms of speed in this case.


----------



## Alex Fraser

miket said:


> I had a feeling I'd been wrong about that all this time... that changes everything! Are you using an enclosure, or just an adapter cable?


One of these:




Not the cheapest option (there's the Thunderbolt "tax") but it's also USB3.1 so I can use it on the MacBook and when I eventually upgrade. There's always the Thunderbolt dock solution too. If you find a cheaper solution, I'm all ears! Right now though, the 1TB option is only £26 more than the Spitfire custom, so...

Whilst I realise that our 2011 machines are never going to be running 5 mic full-on orchestras, I'm betting there's enough spare CPU and I/O to get some work done if using just the tree or pre-made mixes.


----------



## Denkii

Streaming from external SSD via USB 3 works perfectly fine for me.


----------



## jonvog

I got this one like a year ago in a sale for about 180€ (1TB). Works nicely so far.








<p>G-Technology G-DRIVE Mobile SSD robuste mobile externe Festplatte USB-C</p> | Western Digital Speichern


Die G-DRIVE Mobile-SSD ist eine robuste, zuverlässige Speicherlösung mit Schutzart IP67 (Wasser und Staub), Fallsicherheit aus 3 Metern Höhe3 und einer Stoßsicherheitsklassifizierung von 500 kg. Übertragungsgeschwindigkeiten von bis zu 560 MB/s2 ermöglichen das schnelle Speichern, Bearbeiten und...




shop.westerndigital.com


----------



## Zedcars

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the demos must have been created with an incomplete/unfinished library, seeing as SA are still feverishly editing, scripting and ironing out bugs for release day. Whether this is normal practice I don’t know. So it seems to me those demos are an even more remarkable achievement, and yet despite those amazing demos we still have not yet heard the full potential of what will be possible.


----------



## dzilizzi

Well, you didn't hear the sleigh bells, and those things take a lot of work to get right.


----------



## FinGael

dzilizzi said:


> Well, you didn't hear the sleigh bells, and those things take a lot of work to get right.



I respectively suggest the sleigh bells to be officially declared as the new cowbell. One simply can't have too much of them (in a song/mix/your home/studio).


----------



## Alex Fraser

dzilizzi said:


> Well, you didn't hear the sleigh bells, and those things take a lot of work to get right.


Can I request the first forum member to get the library installed head straight to the percussion section and give us some detailed examples of the sleigh bell? We need to know. There's much hype and too much at stake now.


----------



## Zedcars

You have to question some people’s devotion to their craft when they would rather use a sampled sleigh bell than spend a tenner on a real set - especially when said samples have no playable legatos or fast runs. I mean, come on guys, someone has to feed the poor sleigh bell maker’s kids right...RIGHT?! FFS!


----------



## Fleer

jonvog said:


> I got this one like a year ago in a sale for about 180€ (1TB). Works nicely so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <p>G-Technology G-DRIVE Mobile SSD robuste mobile externe Festplatte USB-C</p> | Western Digital Speichern
> 
> 
> Die G-DRIVE Mobile-SSD ist eine robuste, zuverlässige Speicherlösung mit Schutzart IP67 (Wasser und Staub), Fallsicherheit aus 3 Metern Höhe3 und einer Stoßsicherheitsklassifizierung von 500 kg. Übertragungsgeschwindigkeiten von bis zu 560 MB/s2 ermöglichen das schnelle Speichern, Bearbeiten und...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shop.westerndigital.com


High quality indeed, but not as nicely looking or feeling as those from Samsung.


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> You have to question some people’s devotion to their craft when they would rather use a sampled sleigh bell than spend a tenner on a real set - especially when said samples have no playable legatos or fast runs. I mean, come on guys, someone has to feed the poor sleigh bell maker’s kids right...RIGHT?! FFS!


I actually have sleigh bells. I hang them from my front door to let me know if someone is going in or out. Never thought about sampling them. *dreams of becoming the next big sample maker based on sleigh bells* Yeah this could work.


----------



## I like music

dzilizzi said:


> I actually have sleigh bells. I hang them from my front door to let me know if someone is going in or out. Never thought about sampling them. *dreams of becoming the next big sample maker based on sleigh bells* Yeah this could work.



Don't try to sample them in an anechoic chamber. Apparently the way they excite the room simply cannot be captured this way.


----------



## xanderscores

I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread, but can anyone recommend a machine that is up to the task of hosting a decent amount of the BBC samples at once? I studied the screenshots and it seems that one "all articulation"-instrument ranges from 200 to 600 MB. I'm not talking all articulations however, but rather all instruments with their main articulations. 
I'm considering buying a new PC (Dell Precision 7YDHY with 32 GB RAM), will this one for instance do its job or is it 64 GB and no less?
btw: Will the new sample engine work in Vienna Ensemble? As a VST3 it probably should, but who knows? Any thoughts? Thanks!


----------



## al_net77

Will work in VEPRO, the description says _"VST2, VST3, AU, AAX & NKS ready"_


----------



## Fleer

Would also like to know what would be the ideal (yet still reasonable) Mac configuration.


----------



## Noeticus

xanderscores said:


> I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread, but can anyone recommend a machine that is up to the task of hosting a decent amount of the BBC samples at once? I studied the screenshots and it seems that one "all articulation"-instrument ranges from 200 to 600 MB. I'm not talking all articulations however, but rather all instruments with their main articulations.
> I'm considering buying a new PC (Dell Precision 7YDHY with 32 GB RAM), will this one for instance do its job or is it 64 GB and no less?
> btw: Will the new sample engine work in Vienna Ensemble? As a VST3 it probably should, but who knows? Any thoughts? Thanks!



Look at some of the HP Workstations. I cannot recommend Dell.


----------



## barteredbride

SPOILER - Leak of Spitfire walkthrough script:

Hi...Paul Thomson here from Spitfire Audio. I´m very excited today to show you a new and exciting library in collaboration with the BBC Symphony Orchestra. I´m just gonna jump right in first of all, and load up the Sleigh Bells patch.


----------



## rottoy

I think Paul is, at this very moment, running to Maida Vale Studios with a set of sleigh bells, a packet of crisps and some Red Bull to get it recorded and edited in time for the release of BBCSO.
Am I wrong? @paulthomson


----------



## JF

Any word on the video that was mentioned to be released earlier this week?


----------



## vdk-john

JF said:


> Any word on the video that was mentioned to be released earlier this week?



I was wondering the same; hope it comes out tomorrow! 

Also I'd hope for a walkthrough video of the main solo instruments (e.g. lead violin, etc.), especially to showcase the legato


----------



## gussunkri

I'm somewhat puzzled by the photo of a bass flute for the BBC orchestra on Spitfire's facebook page. There is no bass flute in the BBCSO as announced. So I take it that this implies expansions are coming. In one sense, that sounds great, but in another sense I feel that that takes away slightly from the idea of a universal starting point. Collaborators need to have the same expansions. Still, cool with more instruments. I guess I will need an Eb clarinet for my Shostakovich mock ups.


----------



## Noeticus

I wish there where no instruments missing.


----------



## barteredbride

gussunkri said:


> I'm somewhat puzzled by the photo of a bass flute for the BBC orchestra on Spitfire's facebook page. There is no bass flute in the BBCSO as announced. So I take it that this implies expansions are coming. In one sense, that sounds great, but in another sense I feel that that takes away slightly from the idea of a universal starting point. Collaborators need to have the same expansions. Still, cool with more instruments. I guess I will need an Eb clarinet for my Shostakovich mock ups.


Interesting!

Maybe this might be a late addition to the main library.

What other instruments are 'missing'?

Bass Flute
Alto Flute
Wagner Tuba?

BBC Symphony Orchestra Choir ??!


----------



## Noeticus

Euphonium, Bass Triangle, ContraBass Sleighbells, and Saxaphones etc.


----------



## dzilizzi

Do they have a Wagner Tuba in the BBC Orchestra? I'd be interested to see a list of all the instruments in the actual BBC orchestra and see how it compares to the Spitfire version. Though there are probably "standard orchestra" and "we need a few unusual instruments for this piece" orchestras


----------



## dzilizzi

Noeticus said:


> Euphonium, Bass Triangle, ContraBass Sleighbells, and Saxaphones etc.


Ooooo I want some ContraBass Sleighbells. I need to search online for that......

Edit - Did you know there is a band called Sleigh Bells? I didn't. However, no big huge bass sleigh bells. I'm disappointed.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, it's definitely the choir next march direction too..


----------



## brenneisen

barteredbride said:


> Bass Flute


----------



## jamwerks

barteredbride said:


> What other instruments are 'missing'?
> 
> Bass Flute
> Alto Flute
> Wagner Tuba


I'd say... :

Flute 2
Alto Flute
Bass Flute
Oboe 2
Oboe d'amour (Alto Oboe)
Hecklephone (Bass Oboe)
E-flat Clarinet
Cl 2
Basset horn
Contrebass CL
Basson 2

BBC Orchestral Saxophones

Horn solo 2 (7 velocity layers)
Horns a2
Horns a8
Piccolo Trumpet
Trumpet solo 2 (7 velocity layers)
Bass Trumpet
Bass Trombone
Contrebass Trombone
Cimbasso solo & a3
Tenor Tuba (Euphonium)

BBC Harps ( 1 more harp + extended arts)

BBC Orchestral Piano

BBC Chamber strings

BBC Percussion (complete orchestral percussion)

BBC Choir

BBC Epic ensembals (Arc 1 on steroids)

Extended arts for all BBC Orchestra instruments


That should keep their sample slicers busy for 2-3 years!


----------



## CT

Alto/bass flutes and a solo bass trombone would cement this as an absolute all-in-one contender. Wouldn't complain about even more expansions too though!


----------



## dzilizzi

It sounds like they may have recorded all this based on how many samples Paul stated they got. So maybe extensions eventually? Kind of like how OT does their stuff? It would make sense that you get a full base orchestra for $799/$999 and the not so necessary extras will cost some more? As in most people, especially those starting out can have a decently complete orchestra, which can be added to if and when needed? Hopefully the additional instruments and articulations were recorded.


----------



## Lady Gaia

There was always going to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere. This can’t possibly be the last collection of samples you’ll ever need, but rather a good universal starting point for expressing and exchanging ideas. Final, polished works are likely to bring in additional elements that appeal to a given composer, but a solid shared starting point still makes for a compelling package.

I’ll be curious to see whether any planned expansions are as aggressively priced.


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> Ooooo I want some ContraBass Sleighbells. I need to search online for that......
> 
> Edit - Did you know there is a band called Sleigh Bells? I didn't. However, no big huge bass sleigh bells. I'm disappointed.


According to the description, this has a nice deep sound:

Giant Christmas Polar Sleigh Bell, Jingle Bell Express From Santa's Sleigh Bells 






Diameter: 2-7/8 inch or 7.3cm
(6 year old’s hand in photo)


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> According to the description, this has a nice deep sound:
> 
> Giant Christmas Polar Sleigh Bell, Jingle Bell Express From Santa's Sleigh Bells
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Diameter: 2-7/8 inch or 7.3cm
> (6 year old’s hand in photo)



Okay, I want this! The #15 is supposed to have the lowest tone. It's going to be about $30 with tax. I guess if I'm going to be the next big sleighbell VI company, I would need it, right?


----------



## kgdrum

@dzilizzi
When I was in college I used to go to a local pawn shop hunting for forgotten dusty musical gems.
They had a cowbell that was about 4 or 5 times the size of a normal cowbell.
It had a funky deep tone that was horrible and extremely cool at the same time.I couldn't get them to sell it at a price I liked,so I passed on it.
After leaving school I went back about 2 years later and asked them about the monster cowbell.
They still had it,dug it out of the back room and I finally bought it.
To make a long story short I had my magic cowbell for about 5 years before it was lost............
Please follow your heart on your big sleighbell VI company,if you add a monster cowbell,I will certainly buy it!
Who doesn't want or need more cowbell?
Yes I'm a bit disappointed that Spitfire overlooked a good cowbell for BBC 🤪


----------



## barteredbride

When they finally demolish Maida Vale studios in a couple of years, hopefully we can add Dynamite (a8), sledgehammer hits and wrecking ball evo grid.

I don't see too many VIs out at the moment with Canon (a3) booms, so this would be a welcome addition if Spitfire could get around some London laws about firing canons in a dense urban area.


----------



## Zedcars

barteredbride said:


> When they finally demolish Maida Vale studios in a couple of years, hopefully we can add Dynamite (a8), sledgehammer hits and wrecking ball evo grid.
> 
> I don't see too many VIs out at the moment with Canon (a3) booms, so this would be a welcome addition if Spitfire could get around some London laws about firing canons in a dense urban area.


Perfect timing for my 1812 Overture mock-up.


----------



## MaxOctane

Here you go folks. Enjoy.









Holiday


The Holiday drum sample library is a concise percussion library with jingle bells, sleigh bells, bell trees, finger cymbals, wood blocks and more.




store.iwantthatsound.com


----------



## kgdrum

MaxOctane said:


> Here you go folks. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holiday
> 
> 
> The Holiday drum sample library is a concise percussion library with jingle bells, sleigh bells, bell trees, finger cymbals, wood blocks and more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> store.iwantthatsound.com




Unfortunately I don't see any cowbell!


----------



## Ruffian Price

MaxOctane said:


> Here you go folks. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holiday
> 
> 
> The Holiday drum sample library is a concise percussion library with jingle bells, sleigh bells, bell trees, finger cymbals, wood blocks and more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> store.iwantthatsound.com


All joking aside, that library is fantastic. Perfect for Christmas mockups.


----------



## Rey

is 1tb space enough for BBCSO? or I need more when installing and using?


----------



## muk

Could we please stop the cowbell/sleighbell sillyness? It stopped being funny 25 pages ago. Now that everyone has had a crack at it, or two, or five, maybe we can we revert back to actually discussing the BBC SO library?

Anyway. Any ideas how the spill mics are supposed to work? If the whole orchestra is being recorded at the same time, a bit of the brass will spill into the mics that are picking up the strings. How do you similate that when the sections have been recorded separately? In a mockup situation, can the spill mic of the strings cross-reference what woodwinds, brass, and percussion are doing at any given time in my mockup and blend a bit of that into the strings? I hope the mic positions walkthrough will shed some light on this.

@Rey 1tb should be enough. I remember Spitfire posting that you need a bit more disk space than the 600gb to extract and install the library, but not that much more.


----------



## Jdiggity1

muk said:


> Could we please stop the cowbell/sleighbell sillyness? It stopped being funny 25 pages ago. Now that everyone has had a crack at it, or two, or five, maybe we can we revert back to actually discussing the BBC SO library?


Speaking of which... I'd like to take this opportunity to talk about "N"


----------



## muk

Jdiggity1 said:


> Speaking of which... I'd like to take this opportunity to talk about "N"



Guess I had it coming.


----------



## Ruffian Price

muk said:


> Any ideas how the spill mics are supposed to work? If the whole orchestra is being recorded at the same time, a bit of the brass will spill into the mics that are picking up the strings. How do you similate that when the sections have been recorded separately?


Yeah, drum libraries that do this have the advantage of running the entire drumkit in a single instance, which is why I think it's going to work the other way around here. In plugins like Superior Drummer every close mic's spill knob affects the sound of _other drums going into this mic_, here, the way the spill perspectives are listed, it looks like you'll be using _the other close mics getting sound from this instance_ as you would any other perspective, and they're mixed per section.
So with the spills disabled, two sections playing and Close+Tree mics enabled Section A's instance is summing its own Close mics and the overall Tree mics (which are shared across the whole orchestra and don't need spill control), so is Section B. Then to simulate a real session you'll enable the Section B category's spill mics in Section A's instance and the other way around in Section B's instance. It should work even if you're only using a few select instruments for each section, since all of the mics for the close perspective will be summed anyway.

This is, of course, half-conjecture based on what we've seen so far. Let's see that video.


----------



## Alex Fraser

That Bass flute insta has been removed, and..







So there's more coming! Excellent.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> That Bass flute insta has been removed, and..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So there's more coming! Excellent.



I sometimes feel like this thread is good ‘in the field’ training for getting a job at a national intelligence agency.


----------



## Alex Fraser

muk said:


> Could we please stop the cowbell/sleighbell sillyness? It stopped being funny 25 pages ago. Now that everyone has had a crack at it, or two, or five, maybe we can we revert back to actually discussing the BBC SO library?


I suppose the gag is starting to _ring hollow._ I guess when Spitfire _chime _in with some new updates, it'll _ring in_ some new conversation.


----------



## dzilizzi

barteredbride said:


> When they finally demolish Maida Vale studios in a couple of years, hopefully we can add Dynamite (a8), sledgehammer hits and wrecking ball evo grid.
> 
> I don't see too many VIs out at the moment with Canon (a3) booms, so this would be a welcome addition if Spitfire could get around some London laws about firing canons in a dense urban area.


That would work well for the 1812 Overture, I think. Yes! we need canons too! Actually, Boom Library has some of those.


----------



## dzilizzi

muk said:


> Could we please stop the cowbell/sleighbell sillyness? It stopped being funny 25 pages ago. Now that everyone has had a crack at it, or two, or five, maybe we can we revert back to actually discussing the BBC SO library?
> 
> Anyway. Any ideas how the spill mics are supposed to work? If the whole orchestra is being recorded at the same time, a bit of the brass will spill into the mics that are picking up the strings. How do you similate that when the sections have been recorded separately? In a mockup situation, can the spill mic of the strings cross-reference what woodwinds, brass, and percussion are doing at any given time in my mockup and blend a bit of that into the strings? I hope the mic positions walkthrough will shed some light on this.
> 
> @Rey 1tb should be enough. I remember Spitfire posting that you need a bit more disk space than the 600gb to extract and install the library, but not that much more.


It is really hard to discuss anything real when there isn't anything to base the discussion on. 

And I am trying to figure out how the spill mics would work if the mic doesn't know what the other instruments are playing. Or if the other instruments are playing? Would you need to link your tracks? Would you send the signal to the other track's mic? That would be cool if they could link up the instances somehow. But I don't think the technology is there yet. :(


----------



## Ruffian Price

dzilizzi said:


> Would you send the signal to the other track's mic?


I'm pretty sure all major DAWs allow routing additional outputs from multiple plugins to the same mixer track.


----------



## Lady Gaia

muk said:


> @Rey 1tb should be enough. I remember Spitfire posting that you need a bit more disk space than the 600gb to extract and install the library, but not that much more.



It‘s definitely more than sufficient for the core library, but with expansions in the works, what are the odds that 1TB will remain sufficient? Not something anyone here can answer, of course, but I’m also concerned about ordering the library on a 1TB SSD only to find out I need something larger before long.

It would be one thing if I could thin out the collection of mic placements I intend to actually use after some initial experimentation, but it sounds like that won’t be an option (a decision I hope they’ll revisit, as sometimes having a reduced subset on a laptop’s internal drive would be valuable.)


----------



## BassClef

gussunkri said:


> I'm somewhat puzzled by the photo of a bass flute for the BBC orchestra on Spitfire's facebook page. There is no bass flute in the BBCSO as announced. So I take it that this implies expansions are coming. In one sense, that sounds great, but in another sense I feel that that takes away slightly from the idea of a universal starting point. Collaborators need to have the same expansions. Still, cool with more instruments. I guess I will need an Eb clarinet for my Shostakovich mock ups.



Good point, and one I’ve made before. That is why I believe that future upgrades will be free, just like one I recently received for Albion.


----------



## dzilizzi

Ruffian Price said:


> I'm pretty sure all major DAWs allow routing additional outputs from multiple plugins to the same mixer track.


Well, yes, but will the instrument pick up the spill?


----------



## dzilizzi

BassClef said:


> Good point, and one I’ve made before. That is why I believe that future upgrades will be free, just like one I recently received for Albion.


I can't see them all being free. I really think there will be some kind of reasonably prices extension packs, like they used to have for the SSO extra mics (that I never got, darn it!)


----------



## Alex Fraser

dzilizzi said:


> I can't see them all being free. I really think there will be some kind of reasonably prices extension packs, like they used to have for the SSO extra mics (that I never got, darn it!)


<randomspeculation>
I agree and I reckon they'll simplify things too. My guess is they'll be the "core" package (the one we're all frothing at the mouth for) and extra instrument packages e.g "BBCSO Woodwinds Expansion"

They might even be packaged as individual instruments, eg: "BBCSO Bass Flute." at impulse buy prices. That would be pretty cool...

My thinking is SF have focused on providing the most used instruments for the "core" package - to keep the competitive price - and the less used stuff (eg. bass flute, piano, sleigh bells stick, sleigh bells ring, sleigh bells star) as optional add-ons.

I'm not sure SF would mix things up further with extra articulations and mic options for existing instruments. That would fracture the concept of "one library for everyone." The more esoteric articulations could remain with the Studio and Air series, providing further product differentiation.
</randomspeculation>


----------



## Ruffian Price

dzilizzi said:


> Well, yes, but will the instrument pick up the spill?


It can't, for the same reason crosstalk in console emulations is smoke and mirrors - you can share information between plugin instances, but not input audio (buffers are processed sequentially depending on your routing, can't go back in time (I mean, technically you can... by increasing latency exponentially with each new track)). This is why I think the spills work like all other mic perspectives and you simply route, say, the brass spill FROM your string track TO your brass track. This approach will exclude spot mics, but I don't see that as too much of a problem. Close perspective spill should be enough to increase realism.

And again, this is still spitballing - maybe they'll surprise us!


----------



## Zedcars

Well they said there’ll be more to come so, makes sense it will be extra instruments and maybe more arts.

Personally I think it will just be a Pro library with everything but could be wrong.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Personally I think it will just be a Pro library with everything but could be wrong.


<Nods thoughtfully.>
It would make sense from a simplified collaboration angle. i.e do you have the "normal" or "pro" version. If this were the case, I'd bet the differentiation would be the extra instruments only though.

Also. Me trying to work out the spill mics:


----------



## dzilizzi

It makes sense that the majority of the people don't need a flugelhorn or sleighbells. So why make everyone pay for instruments that only a few need?


----------



## babylonwaves

dzilizzi said:


> It makes sense that the majority of the people don't need a flugelhorn or sleighbells. So why make everyone pay for instruments that only a few need?


if you let people buy per instrument you'd need to make the ones which just a few people use more expensive to recoup your costs for those. of course you can also just don't do it and take the loss. but strictly from an economical point of view, you better should. i'm not sure if that would be to good in the end ...


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> It makes sense that the majority of the people don't need a flugelhorn or sleighbells. So why make everyone pay for instruments that only a few need?


And yet they’re forcing* sleigh bells on me when all my hard drives are crammed full of them! 

Sorry, I went _there_ again...naughty me.

*(ok, forcing is bit strong considering I chose to buy it)


----------



## axb312

Zedcars said:


> Well they said there’ll be more to come so, makes sense it will be extra instruments and maybe more arts.
> 
> Personally I think it will just be a Pro library with everything but could be wrong.



I hope these updates are free. Gels with the unified platform for all theme.


----------



## Michel Simons

dzilizzi said:


> It makes sense that the majority of the people don't need a flugelhorn or sleighbells. So why make everyone pay for instruments that only a few need?



Who doesn't need a flugelhorn?


----------



## CT

Well the fact that there are more instruments coming has given me the final push I needed to commit to this.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, I would imagine the updates will be free..the choir library will be a paid add on..


----------



## Zedcars

Hmmm, I’d love them to be free. But, the library as it stands is already amazing value for what you get is it not? I mean, updates to the existing instruments as they have always done would be free. But extra instruments that have not been officially announced yet? I’d be surprised.

I suppose they do have a history of giving away instruments. It would be an unusual idea to have some extra fully sampled instruments given away as part of the core BBCSO package at _a later date_ and would definitely cement it as an almost universally owned library. Commercially would it work? Possibly.


----------



## Noeticus

Does anyone have a list of all the instruments that the BBC orchestra have, or hire, so that perhaps we can see what might be coming? I know it really is a silly question.


----------



## prodigalson

cqd said:


> Yeah, I would imagine the updates will be free..the choir library will be a paid add on..



Extra instruments will certainly not be free, whether a bass flute or a choir...


----------



## VinRice

dzilizzi said:


> And I am trying to figure out how the spill mics would work if the mic doesn't know what the other instruments are playing. Or if the other instruments are playing? Would you need to link your tracks? Would you send the signal to the other track's mic? That would be cool if they could link up the instances somehow



I can't tell if you are joking or not! 

If not, its surely that ALL the orchestra mics were recorded all the time for every section and then a suitable stereo mix was created for the mics NOT associated with the section being performed so that you could mix that spill in if required. I.e. for the string section you can mix in a bit of the brass mics or the woods mics etc.


----------



## dzilizzi

VinRice said:


> I can't tell if you are joking or not!
> 
> If not, its surely that ALL the orchestra mics were recorded all the time for every section and then a suitable stereo mix was created for the mics NOT associated with the section being performed so that you could mix that spill in if required. I.e. for the string section you can mix in a bit of the brass mics or the woods mics etc.


Actually, I'm not really joking. I understand what a spill mic is, concept wise, but as a VI the instruments would be playing different parts. So how would you use it? I guess that is my question. Your spill mic would be on the winds, say, but you want it from the violin's perspective? But without the violin? I just don't get how it would work. Is it just a semi far mic with a bit of a delay, but not as much as a room mic? And why bother? It would make it all messy sounding.


----------



## Paul Cardon

dzilizzi said:


> Actually, I'm not really joking. I understand what a spill mic is, concept wise, but as a VI the instruments would be playing different parts. So how would you use it? I guess that is my question. Your spill mic would be on the winds, say, but you want it from the violin's perspective? But without the violin? I just don't get how it would work. Is it just a semi far mic with a bit of a delay, but not as much as a room mic? And why bother? It would make it all messy sounding.


They aren't special "spill mics" exactly. They're the close and section mics of the rest of the orchestra. So they set up all the micing for the entire orchestra and when they recorded strings, they also recorded the section mics on the winds and brass to pick up the strings that naturally spill into those mics. In a real full orchestra recording, each section is picked up at least a little bit in pretty much every mic in the room. The "spill mics" are the isolated recordings of that bleed into other sections.

And no, in a real full orchestra recording, it doesn't make it all messy sounding.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Paul Cardon said:


> They aren't special "spill mics" exactly. They're the close and section mics of the rest of the orchestra. So they set up all the micing for the entire orchestra and when they recorded strings, they also recorded the section mics on the winds and brass to pick up the strings that naturally spill into those mics. In a real full orchestra recording, each section is picked up at least a little bit in pretty much every mic in the room. The "spill mics" are the isolated recordings of that bleed into other sections.
> 
> And no, in a real full orchestra recording, it doesn't make it all messy sounding.



Yes, this seems to be exactly what they described. I think the confusion comes in as to *where* you mix in those spill mics-- the answers seems to me to obviously be within that section. So when you are writing a string part, a string spill mic is one of your string mic options, and you can mix it in as you see fit *from the string VST instance*. If you do this for each section, it is just like-- or at least convincingly close to-- having that bleed when they are all playing together. When done to all sections, the idea is that it gives a more convincing sense of space.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Lol! It’s just funny how we all take these VI’s for granted now, forgetting about the technological miracle that they are. I remember when a few mic positions were only available as an option in premium libraries....and now we’re debating on things like spill mic’s and umpteen dynamic layers in the samples. Humans are funny creatures


----------



## Paul Cardon

curtisschweitzer said:


> Yes, this seems to be exactly what they described. I think the confusion comes in as to *where* you mix in those spill mics-- the answers seems to me to obviously be within that section. So when you are writing a string part, a string spill mic is one of your string mic options, and you can mix it in as you see fit *from the string VST instance*. If you do this for each section, it is just like-- or at least convincingly close to-- having that bleed when they are all playing together. When done to all sections, the idea is that it gives a more convincing sense of space.


Honestly, in the string example, I'd LOVE to send the mics out on different channels and route them to my wind and brass busses to mimic how this stuff would go down in an actual recording session and mix.


----------



## tcb

Alex Fraser said:


>


hahahahahaha.That's me


----------



## dzilizzi

Okay, I kind of get that you use it to give the illusion of space. I think about all the noise floor with all those mics not actually doing what they should be doing, if that makes sense. So you have a string mic, then a woodwind mic but only playing strings, then a woodwind mic playing woodwinds, then a string mic playing only woodwinds, etc... Lots of RAM, lots of hiss. But! it feels like an orchestra in an orchestra space! I don't know. I guess I will have to test it out. 

And then again, it will sound like a real record of a real orchestra! (not a digital one)


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Paul Cardon said:


> Honestly, in the string example, I'd LOVE to send the mics out on different channels and route them to my wind and brass busses to mimic how this stuff would go down in an actual recording session and mix.



Could just load up a second instance of say, Violin 2 with only the spill mic, copy your sequence data from the Violin 2 track, and route it wherever? Could get messy with duplicates, but would do what you want here.


----------



## dzilizzi

Daniel James said:


> So they recorded it in the same session, but are going to release it separately? Man that kinda sucks (so much for the FULL orchestra thing). This feels like how EA nickel and dimes you with micro transactions by scooping parts of the game out and selling it to you later for another fee. It used to be you would make a thing, and if people wanted more you went and did more. Not make a thing then take bits out to sell separately for more.
> 
> Also not a fan that they promoted that pic with letting people know they can pre-order the BBC orchestra now, knowing full well the instrument they were promoting was going to be an extra cost down the road. You would think with all their marketing experience by now they would know that would leave a sour taste.
> 
> With over a million samples you know that the bulk of the sample editing has be automated, so I can't see the reason its being sold separately being a time or workload issue. It has to just be a straight up cash thing. Again, bit of a sour feeling with that one.
> 
> So hey its gunna be great for collaborating...unless of course one of you has the PRO and one has the basic huh XD
> 
> -DJ


 I agree in some ways. They shouldn't have had a picture of an instrument not in the initial offering. But if MV is being demolished, they would have to record EVERYTHING all at once. It will take them years to go through all those samples to make something out of it. So I'm guessing that is the ultimate plan. Get the basics done first, a good solid orchestra, then do the extras. It makes sense that way and I don't have a problem as long as they have the basics of a full orchestra in the BBCSO.


----------



## Zedcars

Wolfie2112 said:


> Lol! It’s just funny how we all take these VI’s for granted now, forgetting about the technological miracle that they are. I remember when a few mic positions were only available as an option in premium libraries....and now we’re debating on things like spill mic’s and umpteen dynamic layers in the samples. Humans are funny creatures


I think I’m safe in saying we are the only creatures in the universe who make lots of funny shaped objects to make lots of funny noises and then try to replicate the funny noises from the funny shaped objects using funny metal boxes to generate lots of ones and zeros which go out the funny metal boxes in a different order to how they went in the funny metal boxes which then causes two other funny metal boxes to make more funny noises which sound almost the same as the funny noises the funny shaped objects made in the first place. And we think we’re the superior species?


----------



## prodigalson

Daniel James said:


> So they recorded it in the same session, but are going to release it separately? Man that kinda sucks (so much for the FULL orchestra thing). This feels like how EA nickel and dimes you with micro transactions by scooping parts of the game out and selling it to you later for another fee. It used to be you would make a thing, and if people wanted more you went and did more. Not make a thing then take bits out to sell separately for more.
> 
> Also not a fan that they promoted that pic with letting people know they can pre-order the BBC orchestra now, knowing full well the instrument they were promoting was going to be an extra cost down the road. You would think with all their marketing experience by now they would know that would leave a sour taste.
> 
> With over a million samples you know that the bulk of the sample editing has be automated, so I can't see the reason its being sold separately being a time or workload issue. It has to just be a straight up cash thing. Again, bit of a sour feeling with that one.
> 
> So hey its gunna be great for collaborating...unless of course one of you has the PRO and one has the basic huh XD
> 
> -DJ



I have to be honest, this is going a bit overboard and pretty unfair in my opinion.

They're offering you an entire, deeply sampled STANDARD full symphonic orchestra for $749. Thats pretty incredible. From what I can tell, every instrument in the standard, commonly accepted line up of the modern symphony orchestra is included. And even some that arguably aren't that standard, like a contrabassoon or bass clarinet. If they offered a full orchestra and said the trombones weren't included, or the oboes, you'd have a point but not including a BASS FLUTE in the original standard package is hardly nickel and diming by "carving out the game".

You also make a pretty big leap in assuming negative intent by promoting the BBCSO with the bass flute picture ("knowing full well") when in actual fact it's a lot more likely that whoever runs their instragram didn't realize the bass flute wasn't in the original package. Sloppy communication and business practice, maybe. An innocent mistake, more likely. But certainly not "knowing full well what they were promoting was going to be an extra cost"

I think offering the entire standard orchestra for $749 and then giving the option of paying more for less common instruments is entirely reasonable. You want a deeply sampled instrument for every single instrument the members of the BBCSO can play for $749 ($999)??


----------



## dzilizzi

Daniel James said:


> For every recording...be that a different instrument or a different mic, the noise floor will be the same and will therefor stack. Multiple mics works great here or there but I imagine the more you load, the more hiss you will introduce. So its a great idea in theory but when you record sections together in the real world your one room mic would only be one noise floor, but if you have a room mic on each of the strings and each of the woods you might end up with 5+ room mics all with the same noise print which will be even more noticable if you start introducing multiple mics and bleeds.
> 
> -DJ


That's how I understood it. A live orchestra wouldn't need the mics a virtual one has because only one instance of each, not one for each instrument you are running. And spill mics would just add to the noise. So they have to be used very judiciously.


----------



## NoamL

Paul Cardon said:


> Honestly, in the string example, I'd LOVE to send the mics out on different channels and route them to my wind and brass busses to mimic how this stuff would go down in an actual recording session and mix.



What I would like most of all for this workflow, is if when you turned up the woodwind spot mics you were also turning up the woodwind spill mics for the strings, brass and percussion. 

And vice versa all around. As this most closely mimics what would happen in a real recording session. In a real recording session you can't turn up a spot/section mic without introducing some degree of bleed from the other instruments.

Dunno if this is possible inside the player. You could probably figure it out by grouping busses together though!

I'm open-minded but agnostic re: how much this spill mic stuff actually helps. I assume John Powell knows what he's talking about though!!!


----------



## prodigalson

Daniel James said:


> They used that picture to promote the upcoming library, in which that instrument isnt featured. It may not be ill intended but they have so much marketing experience between them I can't believe they were naive to the fact it would get people hyped (as you see in this thread with people getting excited for the bass flute) when they already knew it wasnt going to be included. Again it doesn't prove ill intent but it also, as I phrased it, leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
> 
> And yes there is a good deal on what we are going to get for the $999 price (sale price wont be what everyone gets) but lets not act like they are doing us a favour. Thats a pretty penny, the least they could do is at least not hype it up with content we wont get for that 'bargain' price.
> 
> -DJ



I never suggested they were doing anyone a favor, only that accusing them of nickel and diming is equally unreasonable.


----------



## dzilizzi

NoamL said:


> What I would like most of all for this workflow, is if when you turned up the woodwind spot mics you were also turning up the woodwind spill mics for the strings, brass and percussion. And vice versa all around. As this most closely mimics what would happen in a real recording session. Dunno if this is possible inside the player. You could probably figure it out by grouping busses together though!


I think the way to do it is when you say bounce the winds to audio, you also bounce the spill mics from the other instruments that are the winds spill mics with it. So your winds bounce would have woodwinds with the lowered sound of the other instruments that would have been picked up by the woodwinds' mics. It could be interesting to try it.


----------



## Portland

I'm a naive nobody, but just my two cents here. I don't think SA are trying to screw anyone over. It's a huge undertaking they've...undertaken...and you're free to buy it, free to ignore it.

But I get it, people rely on these tools for their livelihood, so its important to know what to expect. I guess I'm just curious if there are examples, or claims, of SA having screwed people over in the past?


----------



## prodigalson

Daniel James said:


> but *chose* to put it in a different version (PRO perhaps?), while using it to market the one it isn't in.



But all of this implies intent. they didn't CHOOSE to use the bass flute picture to market it. It was a mistake, they clearly rectified and the actual included instruments are clearly described on the website and, I assume, will also be in a walkthrough. If the picture hadn't been posted, you wouldn't have known any different. 

Orchestral Tools released Berlin Woodwinds with all standard instruments and then released several other packages of auxiliary instruments at additional cost, even though I guarantee you they recorded them in the same sessions. Is OT nickel and diming by doing this? 

EW have the HO Gold and the Diamond but obviously all the mics were recorded in the same sessions. 

The only difference here it seems is the supposed marketing, i.e. that SF briefly posted the bass flute picture, even though it was clearly a mistake and they clarified that the bass flute wasn't in the original package. 

mountain out of a mole hill if you ask me.


----------



## Paul Cardon

Daniel James said:


> And I disagree. They recorded it at the same session it seems, but chose to put it in a different version (PRO perhaps?), while using it to market the one it isn't in. Making it _feel_ like it was scooped out like EA do in their video games, to sell later for more money (hence the nickel and dime / microtransaction comparison). Thats what I see and I don't think its unreasonable to share that observation. You may do, but that won't change how it feels to me.
> 
> -DJ


They're already releasing a huge swath of stuff for a really good price. Of course they're doing this for money, but how is this nickel and diming? We don't lose the main experience of a full standard orchestra in one package as advertised EVERYWHERE else except this one instance, and to compare to EA, the main package price isn't some standard set by the industry (i.e. EA game for the standard $60 but adding a ton of microtransactions).

I guess expecting Spitfire to go into the more alternative and unique instruments/styles for a bit more doesn't seem at all sneaky with the price they've set for the main thing. The rest of the industry does it like this.

Everyone in this thread has known the articulations and instruments provided for weeks and been terribly happy with the price. Now it's revealed there's some alternative content for the future and that undoes that?

ALSO, it just feels a bit extra to drive down on what was likely a simple mistake by a single person running their social media with access to a big shared folder of pics from the session. They have realized the mistake now and removed it. Ain't it easier to close the issues with a, "oh, they removed it! Good to hear," instead of digging deeper? To hold onto a "sour taste in your mouth" even after a mistake is noticed and fixed is a bit funky, init


----------



## VinRice

@Daniel James - You are being obviously aggressive in your criticism DJ and suggesting some sort of nefarious intent on Spitfire's part. It seems unnecessary and silly.


----------



## Sovereign

VinRice said:


> @Daniel James - You are being obviously aggressive in your criticism DJ and suggesting some sort of nefarious intent on Spitfire's part. It seems unnecessary and silly.


I agree, it is rather obvious.


----------



## AndyP

dzilizzi said:


> It makes sense that the majority of the people don't need a flugelhorn or sleighbells. So why make everyone pay for instruments that only a few need?


That's something I really appreciate about VSL.


----------



## Noeticus

I'm not going to single anyone out, but there are some assumptions being made here about what has been recorded and when. If you do not know the facts, then perhaps best not to jump on the criticisms until perhaps later.


----------



## dzilizzi

Noeticus said:


> I'm not going to single anyone out, but there are some assumptions being made here about what has been recorded and when. If you do not know the facts, then perhaps best not to jump on the criticisms until perhaps later.


I have no criticism against SA. I do remember Paul or Christian saying they recorded something like 200 hours? 20,000 samples? It was a big number and seemed to indicate there would be follow-up libraries. I think it is great. Make a basic library everyone can use for a reasonable price. I don't consider it nickle and dime-ing to have additional sections that can be added as they complete them. I may not want the bass flute. Or maybe I do. My choice.


----------



## Jdiggity1

You know, they might have been intending on releasing this stuff as free updates down the line, but now you guys are giving them ideas!!


----------



## dzilizzi

Jdiggity1 said:


> You know, they might have been intending on releasing this stuff as free updates down the line, but now you guys are giving them ideas!!


Well, it is work. They should get a reasonable amount of money for it. I like to be fair. I'm hoping they will be reasonable about the prices for these. Based on past personal experience, they have been a very fair company to deal with.


----------



## NoamL

Suppose -

Developer A releases a "main"/"full" orchestra and then expansion packs with auxiliary instruments...

Developer B releases an orchestra lineup in "volumes" (strings/brass/perc) some of which are auxiliary...

Seems like the same thing in the long run?

IMO -

Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Bassoon solos & a3 patches = core

EHn, BassClar, CBsn, Picc, AFl = technically auxiliary instruments but from a VI perspective practically necessary for a "full" woodwind section

Eb Clar, Contrabass Clar, Bass Flute, Bass Oboe etc = auxiliary

Related to this whole discussion I'm very interested where *Cinematic Studio Woodwinds* will draw the line


----------



## Paul Cardon

Daniel James said:


> Relax guys, you can disagree, no need to come out in force on this xD
> 
> I am completely outnumbered on this issue on VI control, I get that and I am just saying how I feel. But I know there are people outside of the Spitfire hive mind who share my stance (and people _here_ who don't want to get all the flame). And so I don't mind pointing it out here so that I can address the responses later to my audience, it allows for all opinions to be voiced without one side being beaten down by numbers.
> 
> My point is they put out the marketing on their social showing a bass flute, which forwarded to a product in which it was not. I and others here got excited (I wasn't even the first to bring up excitement about the extra instruments not mentioned). It turned out that even though it was insinuated by the post that there would be a bass flute in the library that there is not. This is not the first time Spitfire has made 'mistakes' in their marketing, and every time it leaves a sour taste in my mouth, I don't think its unreasonable to feel that way.
> 
> So again my hype level was raised, by Spitfire, only for it to be reduced again (hence the sour taste). Its not the first time and I doubt it will be the last.
> 
> Yes other companies do multiple libraries in the same session but they don't promote the core package with the extended purchases, like what happened in this specific situation, and I am not trying to make it a mountain I am just defending my stance against the pile on of people trying to tell me how I _feel_ is wrong.
> 
> Sure it might have been yet another marketing mistake, but you would think that with all that marketing experience and Spitfire being run by a old marketing manager they would have a tighter grasp on these schoolboy errors by now. Again not saying ill intent but they obviously knew the bass flute wasn't going to be in the base package but they promoted it that way regardless, its sort of a backhanded compliment because I don't actually believe they are that sloppy with marketing. Again not saying ill intended but they knew it would raise the hype, why else post it.
> 
> I don't think I am being aggressive either, just disappointed again due to Spitfires over eager marketing arm.
> 
> The post was literally 'here is a bass flute from our BBC Orchetra library, go to this link now where you can preorder' - 'oh but the bass flute isnt in that library, its coming later, most likely for an extra fee'. That got me hyped and then disappointed. I am just pointing that out that disappointment. It wasn't a war cry! Or are we not supposed to share any disappointments anymore? With Spitfire I never know anymore.
> 
> -DJ


There are always people outside the hive mind that agree with you, though. Of course there are always going to be people that agree with you. There's a lot of us. You have an online presence. You have fans.

A single marketing person makes a mistake. They're real people. You're almost certainly drumming up controversy against a single person at Spitfire right now. You've got fans. The anti-Spitfire fans can latch on to this talking point. "Spitfire's marketing is deceptive and big and bad." It's so menial.

Acting like, "oh but everyone else I know is talking about this, Spitfire really needs to watch their back, they don't know what they're in for outside of the VI-C hivemind..." (hyperbole, yes, but it's definitely how the intent reads)

It's chill. We're calming down now... The sour taste is subsiding...


----------



## dzilizzi

I have no problem with you stating your feelings on the matter DJ. I think it is just sometimes your wording is a little more inflammatory than you mean to be. And sometimes people take things personally when they maybe shouldn't? The bass flute was a bad idea if it isn't in the initial offering, whether on purpose or because marketing thought it was a cool picture and no one paid attention. It could be considered false advertising, though I doubt it was meant to be.


----------



## NoamL

Daniel... I admire your work you know. But I don't believe anyone here is disagreeing with you out of a desire to protect Spitfire from your criticism. Just saying that your criticism is pretty fierce for what was a social marketing flub that stayed up for a few hours at most. Anyone can go to the BBCSO website and see exactly what instruments are in the package.


----------



## prodigalson

Daniel James said:


> I am completely outnumbered on this issue on VI control, I get that and I am just saying how I feel. But I know there are people outside of the Spitfire hive mind who share my stance (and people _here_ who don't want to get all the flame). And so I don't mind pointing it out here so that I can address the responses later to my audience, it allows for all opinions to be voiced without one side being beaten down by numbers.



Very predictable here.

Person A makes comment critical of spitfire

Person B argues the merits and substance of the comment

(handful of others concur)

Person A: SPITFIRE HIVE MIND! OUTNUMBERED! THOSE WHO AGREE WITH ME TOO AFRAID TO COMMENT!

give me a break.


----------



## Paul Cardon

Daniel James said:


> I'm not trying to drum anything up. I was sharing my disappointment at the post, it could have been left at that. But am now defending myself from people who are seemingly telling me I am either A. Not be allowed to be disappointed or B. Not allowed share that disappointment, and how it feels to me.
> 
> -DJ


Your posts have had a lot more words than "I'm disappointed in this."

And even then, the disappointment is totally misplaced. "This is just another example of Spitfire overreaching in their marketing."

No, it's a quick mistake by a social media manager.

Doesn't matter if it's free or not. This stuff takes AGES to edit and program. They're getting out a fully standard orchestra in one big package and probably leaving some time to work on the rest. Wait until an announcement at least. If anything, it's exciting to hear that there's even more in the pipeline, right?


----------



## AndyP

First of all I see it positively that a manufacturer brings a complete ochestrasetup on the market. 
Especially SA, because in the packages before you had to buy percussion extra.

I get the impression that they are constantly learning and taking the feedback of the users seriously.
Marketing mistakes happen, it's not nice, but it's not just SA. 

What I find more problematic is to go to the presale without making all the facts known. This is a risk for those who present themselves in confidence, especially as a right of return is excluded.

I wait until either all the facts are on the table, or until enough authority has been sold and the appropriate user experience is available. 

So also those who pre-order under these circumstances must be aware that the expectations might be disappointed.

It will probably not become a diesel affair, that would be under circumstances also for SA a possible beginning of the end. So they will try not to disappoint the users. At least that's what everyone who is interested in this library hopes.

I neither follow the videos nor the always hidden hints, this is too exhausting for me. There is still enough time to make a decision.

But if you plan your budget and think about where you want to invest it, it's an even more annoying game because some of you are holding back your money, would maybe buy something else, but it comes BBCSO. So the money stays in your pocket and you wait.

I don't think much of this kind of marketing, which doesn't stop me from being interested in this new library.


----------



## NoamL

Paul Cardon said:


> If anything, it's exciting to hear that there's even more in the pipeline, right?



With regard to the bass flute specifically, yeah. it's always of interest when developers sample rarely-sampled instruments and combinations.

I just wish we get a high quality heckelphone library one of these days!!






AndyP said:


> What I find more problematic is to go to the presale without making all the facts known. This is a risk for those who present themselves in confidence, especially as a right of return is excluded.




Completely agree. After pre-ordering Berlin Brass I will never pre-order another library again no matter what the financial temptation. There is plenty of time after release day to make up your mind, too. But if people want to pre-order that's up to them 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Paul Cardon

Daniel James said:


> Posts like this really help dialogue. Thanks for posting.
> 
> Threads like this only seem to happen around Spitfire, thats my point with the hive mind comment. Any cristism of anything they do is defended by multiple people against the one person who said it (not just me, but in this case it is). That one person then responds to the people who attempt to refute their point of view. Which is met by multiple people telling them that they are being unreasonable and why are they posting so much, meaning they now have more defences of their point to make, which leads to more people defending Spitfire agreeing that the person making the crisism is wrong because look how many of us agree that their opinion is wrong. And then we end up here where people start making it go down this shit hole (thats where your post comes in)
> 
> So yes, very predictable indeed.
> 
> -DJ


See this is what I mean. You keep dragging this out bigger and bigger, like rejection of your arguments is a chance to fall back on wide arguments that can’t be quickly rejected. We were just talking about the social media post at first. Now, because of you, we’re talking about fucking hive minds and Spitfire’s broad marketing strategies and expectations and assumptions and the history of this whole Spitfire v. Daniel mess.

You're dictating the ways this thing is opening up by bringing in more baggage and wide arguments. You feel me?


----------



## cqd

They've said it's going to be an all in one standard, so I can't see there being a woodwinds expansion for instance.. maybe they were just giving us a taste of what is to come as it wasn't on the list..

I do think there's a choir coming too, that will be a paid upgrade..


----------



## prodigalson

Daniel James said:


> Posts like this really help dialogue. Thanks for posting.
> 
> Threads like this only seem to happen around Spitfire, thats my point with the hive mind comment. Any criticism of anything they do is defended by multiple people against the one person who said it (not just me, but in this case it is). That one person then responds to the people who attempt to refute their point of view. Which is met by multiple people telling them that they are being unreasonable and why are they posting so much, meaning they now have more defences of their point to make, which leads to more people defending Spitfire agreeing that the person making the criticism is wrong because look how many of us agree that their opinion is wrong. And then we end up here where people start making it go down this shit hole (thats where your post comes in)
> 
> So yes, very predictable indeed.
> 
> And I would happily give you a break, you just don't seem to want one xD
> 
> -DJ



Lol "shithole"? jeez, my post was simply intended as a succinct and, IMO, accurate representation of what is happening here (and often happens on VI control). That is: someone says something critical of spitfire, someone else disagrees and legitimately (and in this case, respectfully) argues the merits of the point and that person and others who agree get branded as a hive mind and fanboys etc etc.

And my "give me a break" comment was solely in response to this idea that theres some silent majority that are too afraid to speak out at the terrible spitfire fanboys. That's ridiculous, in my opinion.

I'm not a Spitfire fanboy, I have made many comments supporting them and in favor of their products but I also have made many comments critical of them when disappointed with products or aspects of them. What I DO take issue with, especially when the point is being argued substantively and in good faith, is this notion that as soon as someone disagrees with a criticism of spitfire there's this persecution complex that kicks in and everyone gets labeled a fan boy and spitfire hive mind. 

You could look at it like, "Any criticism of anything they do is defended by multiple people against the one person who said it", or you could look at it like, "several people agreeing simply means that several people agree on the merits". Simply because several people disagree with you doesn't necessarily mean that theres some hive mind, mob mentality at play.


----------



## Tice

It's the kind of thing that makes me completely blind to marketing. It's background noise to me. I just look at the technical specs of a product, it's list of instruments and articulations, mic positions, etc. and that's it. All the rest is static noise in the ether.


----------



## Fleer

Back on sound, love those horns at 25:25 and the bass trombone at 25.55


----------



## Noeticus

Since the product has not been release yet, it can not be said with certainty that the Bass Flute is not included, even though it probably isn't.


----------



## Architekton

Back on topic, guys, you are like okd grandmas!!! Hopefully we will see strings and wws video which covers runs...


----------



## lp59burst

Noeticus said:


> I'm not going to single anyone out, but there are some assumptions being made here about what has been recorded and when. If you do not know the facts, then perhaps best not to jump on the criticisms until perhaps later.


Oh now, where's the fun it that...


----------



## Daniel James

Sorry about all that guys. You are right. I'm out.


----------



## boxheadboy50

Alex Fraser said:


> That Bass flute insta has been removed, and..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So there's more coming! Excellent.



Hey that’s me!

...wait.

That means I started this whole pissing match. Oops...


----------



## kgdrum

For the record I like Spitfire & I have tons of their libraries.
But for me the more recent focus on pre-release hype & marketing has become way to over the top.
Here we are approaching 134 pages and 2700 posts for a library that hasn't even been released.
Yes we get a few demos & a walkthrough but IMO a 6-8 week buildup of conjecture,people guessing about content,efficiency and possible future BBC editions gets quite tedious,it becomes 2700 posts of pure speculation.

Yes the Spitfire team are smart,very talented and know how to maximize their profitability.
IMO as successful & talented as they are,they could have had their event & released BBC within 2 or 3 weeks and still have an incredible release.
The dragged out timeframe of the announcement and the eventual release of w/ all of this hype,conjecture and speculation actually turns me off and often makes me leery of preordering.
Lately I've become more comfortable waiting for the release,see real world user comments about quality,limitations,bugs etc.... and buy later if I want it during a sale.
A case in point couple of their recent hyped big releases I skipped after hearing users gripes and disappointments and I was thrilled I held off,the more hype the less I feel comfortable preordering.
As talented and successful that Spitfire is I wish they'd trust their talent and their clientele to make a decision without the 2 month hype train.

This of course is just my opinion.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Jeez, I can’t say I’ve ever been so disappointed (or excited) about a bass flute. Unreal.


----------



## Jdiggity1

kgdrum said:


> For the record I like Spitfire & I have tons of their libraries.
> But for me the more recent focus on pre-release hype & marketing has become way to over the top.
> Here we are approaching 134 pages and 2700 posts for a library that hasn't even been released.
> Yes we get a few demos & a walkthrough but IMO a 6-8 week buildup of conjecture,people guessing about content,efficiency and possible future BBC editions gets quite tedious,it becomes 2700 posts of pure speculation.
> 
> Yes the Spitfire team are smart,very talented and know how to maximize their profitability.
> IMO as successful & talented as they are,they could have had their event & released BBC within 2 or 3 weeks and still have an incredible release.
> The dragged out timeframe of the announcement and the eventual release of w/ all of this hype,conjecture and speculation actually turns me off and often makes me leery of preordering.
> Lately I've become more comfortable waiting for the release,see real world user comments about quality,limitations,bugs etc.... and buy later if I want it during a sale.
> A case in point couple of their recent hyped big releases I skipped after hearing users gripes and disappointments and I was thrilled I held off,the more hype the less I feel comfortable preordering.
> As talented and successful that Spitfire is I wish they'd trust their talent and their clientele to make a decision without the 2 month hype train.
> 
> This of course is just my opinion.


I hear ya. Can easily turn somebody cynical.
"Oh they're just hyping this so much because they have a massive cost to recoup, which needs to happen on pre-orders and early adopter sales because once it's out for a while people will realize it actually isn't all that magnificent."
I'll admit, that sort of thinking has crossed my mind (not exclusive to the sample library world).
But, I just hold off on the pre-orders now, keep calm, and carry on.


----------



## Fleer

Now I know why I love the GUI of Spitfire’s dedicated plugin. It’s made in collaboration with ustwo, the design company behind that wonderful Monument Valley game app.


----------



## MaxOctane

kgdrum said:


> But for me the more recent focus on pre-release hype & marketing has become way to over the top.
> Here we are approaching 134 pages and 2700 posts for a library that hasn't even been released.
> Yes we get a few demos & a walkthrough but IMO a 6-8 week buildup of conjecture,people guessing about content,efficiency and possible future BBC editions gets quite tedious,it becomes 2700 posts of pure speculation.
> 
> Yes the Spitfire team are smart,very talented and know how to maximize their profitability.
> IMO as successful & talented as they are,they could have had their event & released BBC within 2 or 3 weeks and still have an incredible release.
> The dragged out timeframe of the announcement and the eventual release of w/ all of this hype,conjecture and speculation actually turns me off and often makes me leery of preordering.



I'll just point out that there's been cases recently where other, smaller library developers have pre-announced their products weeks in advance, with teasers etc, and they generated just one or two pages of posts, if lucky. 

So I don't put it on Spitfire -- we're the ones hyping BBCSO, not them.


----------



## barteredbride

You see...look what happens when we stop talking about Sleigh Bells.


----------



## Zedcars

MaxOctane said:


> I'll just point out that there's been cases recently where other, smaller library developers have pre-announced their products weeks in advance, with teasers etc, and they generated just one or two pages of posts, if lucky.
> 
> So I don't put it on Spitfire -- we're the ones hyping BBCSO, not them.


If I may make a small correction: I think both parties are guilty.

Some reasons for the difference in hype levels:

Firstly, the smaller developers are smaller, so the interest is therefore smaller. Secondly, SA are using every trick in the book to build momentum and generate interest. And thirdly, the release is a big one from a well respected orchestra, has potentially wide appeal and great bang for your buck.


----------



## Alex Fraser

kgdrum said:


> For the record I like Spitfire & I have tons of their libraries.
> But for me the more recent focus on pre-release hype & marketing has become way to over the top.
> Here we are approaching 134 pages and 2700 posts for a library that hasn't even been released.
> Yes we get a few demos & a walkthrough but IMO a 6-8 week buildup of conjecture,people guessing about content,efficiency and possible future BBC editions gets quite tedious,it becomes 2700 posts of pure speculation.
> 
> Yes the Spitfire team are smart,very talented and know how to maximize their profitability.
> IMO as successful & talented as they are,they could have had their event & released BBC within 2 or 3 weeks and still have an incredible release.
> The dragged out timeframe of the announcement and the eventual release of w/ all of this hype,conjecture and speculation actually turns me off and often makes me leery of preordering.
> Lately I've become more comfortable waiting for the release,see real world user comments about quality,limitations,bugs etc.... and buy later if I want it during a sale.
> A case in point couple of their recent hyped big releases I skipped after hearing users gripes and disappointments and I was thrilled I held off,the more hype the less I feel comfortable preordering.
> As talented and successful that Spitfire is I wish they'd trust their talent and their clientele to make a decision without the 2 month hype train.
> 
> This of course is just my opinion.


Sure, but to be fair, the amount of postings is nothing to do with Spitfire. And at least 700 of those posts have been spent arguing about Christmas chocolate and a certain type of bell often heard around the festive season.

Personally, I don’t have an issue with the pre release hype. It’s all part of the fun. Note this isn’t even the “official thread” on the subject. That’s elsewhere and has had much less traction.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Sure, but to be fair, the amount of postings is nothing to do with Spitfire. And at least 700 of those posts have been spent arguing about Christmas chocolate and a certain type of bell often heard around the festive season.
> 
> Note this isn’t even the official thread on the subject. That’s elsewhere.


Woah...700? Definitely a lot of heated debates have been had on the two polarising topics, but no way is it 700 posts. I’d count them but feel my soul would die a little trying.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Woah...700? Definitely a lot of heated debates have been had on the two polarising topics, but no way is it 700 posts. I’d count them but feel my soul would die a little trying.


Haha, well it seems like it!
This thread was originally about trying to decipher the marketing clues and work out what the library actually was. (And we were pretty good at that 😉)

And we’re probably not even halfway yet. Don’t forget, we’ve got the release, the inevitable “problems with my download” posts, then initial impressions, then that moment when someone finds a faulty legato transition on the tuba patch (whilst doing something weirdly specific to trigger it) and starts another almighty argument. 😎


----------



## Jdiggity1

The post number is in the top right corner of every post.



Spoiler: Post count



There's more than 700


----------



## Zedcars

Jdiggity1 said:


> The post number is in the top right corner of every post.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Post count
> 
> 
> 
> There's more than 700


I think we were referring specifically to the chocolate and sleigh bell topics, not the overall total. Sorry I wasn’t clear.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Zedcars said:


> I think we were referring specifically to the chocolate and sleigh bell topics, not the overall total. Sorry I wasn’t clear.


You are absolutely correct. And Alex was absolutely clear. And I am absolutely padding out this response with nonsense as I have nothing significant to say.
Don't mind me


----------



## Alex Fraser

Jdiggity1 said:


> You are absolutely correct. And Alex was absolutely clear. And I am absolutely padding out this response with nonsense as I have nothing significant to say.
> Don't mind me


Let’s all hold hands.


----------



## Zero&One

Alex Fraser said:


> And we’re probably not even halfway yet.



Maybe we should list what we've previously discussed, like our own unofficial FAQ?

I remember bass flutes, SSD's, price, water filled dummy's, "that demo", the SA player, Pro and Welfare versions, RAM, RAM and RAM, chocolate, hive minds, SA's evil intent, and Christmas No.1's. And RAM


----------



## Jdiggity1

Alex Fraser said:


> Let’s all hold hands.


This is all happening so fast.



But I think I like it.


----------



## Francis Bourre

paulthomson said:


> Hey Gussunkri - I just recorded a walkthru of mic positions yesterday - its being edited Monday so I think that should be available to watch on Tuesday. Its actually really fascinating seeing how the sound changes - there are a lot of options in here.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Paul


So, what's happened to this walkthrough? Any news?


----------



## ptram

I don't remember if I have posted in this thread, so I’ll remedy by posting to ask where I can find those SA chocolate bells everybody were discussing about.

Paolo


----------



## Zedcars

So I went looking for bass flute videos, then came across the contrabass flute, only to be confronted with the subcontrabass flute with 15ft of tubing. Then I clapped my eyes on the double contrabass flute with 22ft of tubing! Wow. I thought it couldn’t get any bigger and deeper. I was wrong!

I present to you the extraordinary sight and haunting sound of the 49ft tube Hyperbass Flute 😯


----------



## Adam Takacs




----------



## Alex Fraser

tadam said:


>



<thread goes silent for 30 mins>


----------



## Denkii

Architekton said:


> Back on topic, guys, you are like okd grandmas!!! Hopefully we will see strings and wws video which covers runs...


After reading "grandmas", my head replaced "wws" with "world wars" and the entire post became weird.
I need help.


----------



## ridgero

Listening to it, Its such a lovely sound. Love the sul tasto Cello very much!


----------



## Spitfire Team

BBC Symphony Orchestra Overview Out Now!

https://youtu.be/2q22_plC6ow


----------



## ridgero

Besides the lovely overall sound -> The sound quality of the different mic positions is exceptionally good, just wow.


----------



## alfred tapscott

Wow, it's sounding really beautiful!

Just had a question, seems a bit confusing to me, when he talks about controlling vibrato...but it seems more like just the traditional dynamics with some extra vibrato when you push it up, not a real vibrato control, am I wrong?

Later Paul plays flutes a3 chorale, the mod control is all the way down and there is vibrato on it, for something that I might not want vibrato for. 

What do you guys think?

Thanks!


----------



## RogiervG

so far i am not that impressed. Comparing it to e.g. SSO/SCO. it's not bad, however, it's not that innovative either in sound (i do not hear difference in room sound, sound much like lyndhurst air)
Maybe, i need more demos to really get convinced this is the new era of sampling realism?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Well, I was sold in the first 10 seconds with the agility of those violins.
(Sigh)
_<Cracks open "budget" spreadsheet>_


----------



## Bear Market

May I ask a question to those that have more experience with the SF Player than I do (I only have a few of the labs products)? Is it really the case that many cc controllable parameters (e.g. release, vibrato, what have you) are by default not visible on the UI but you have to click that big fat knob to select which parameter it should modulate? If that it the case, I would find it somewhat disappointing. Why obfuscate all that information when the UI is so big and has ample space available?


----------



## AndyP

I was waiting for this overview. Very impressing sound!


----------



## AndyP

Bear Market said:


> May I ask a question to those that have more experience with the SF Player than I do (I only have a few of the labs products)? Is it really the case that many cc controllable parameters (e.g. release, vibrato, what have you) are by default not visible on the UI but you have to click that big fat knob to select which parameter it should modulate? If that it the case, I would find it somewhat disappointing. Why obfuscate all that information when the UI is so big and has ample space available?


I've had a similar thought to mics. Left below is so much space, why not take advantage?


----------



## Bear Market

AndyP said:


> I've had a similar thought to mics. Left below is so much space, why not take advantage?



Yes, it does give a slight impression of "form over function" having been favoured in the development process, doesn't it? 

I really enjoy the "expert view" on SF's SSO Kontakt libraries. All parameters are right there and, in my opinion, SF has achieved a great balance between legibility and function.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Spitfire Team said:


> BBC Symphony Orchestra Overview Out Now!



Wow, I read "BBC Symphony Orchestra Out Now!" at first and almost got a heart attack.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

mostly sounds good, but one of the things I'm most worried about seems like it was mostly skipped over. 

the amount of round robins on the shorts look like 4, which is less than I'd like - but it's important to hear.


----------



## Bluemount Score

One thing I was wondering is why the "great short staccatissimos" aren't very short at all (14:00 in the video)
Maybe, just like with the marcato, you need to play faster for short notes and it matches the length automatically, at least I hope so!



I loved the sound of the strings sections... especially the violin!


----------



## ridgero

ProfoundSilence said:


> mostly sounds good, but one of the things I'm most worried about seems like it was mostly skipped over.
> 
> the amount of round robins on the shorts look like 4, which is less than I'd like - but it's important to hear.



Why skipped? The purpose of the video is to give a brief overview about the whole package. The video is not about the technical background at all.


----------



## Ruffian Price

ProfoundSilence said:


> the amount of round robins on the shorts look like 4, which is less than I'd like - but it's important to hear.


I've seen posts calling this a _deeply sampled_ library which kinda weirded me out, since I'm going by the Tonehammer definition, and nobody was promising ridiculous amounts of RR and dynamic layers here, just the instruments and mics. I can imagine working out the sweet spot to maximise the potential of every expensive recording session was already plenty work.


----------



## Chungus

Zedcars said:


> So I went looking for bass flute videos, then came across the contrabass flute, only to be confronted with the subcontrabass flute with 15ft of tubing. Then I clapped my eyes on the double contrabass flute with 22ft of tubing! Wow. I thought it couldn’t get any bigger and deeper. I was wrong!
> 
> I present to you the extraordinary sight and haunting sound of the 49ft tube Hyperbass Flute 😯



Oh my sweet Jesus. I had to change the EQ profile on my speakers to avoid them crackling under the roar of that beast.

I want this sampled! I'd have no use for it, but I want it! xD


----------



## Zedcars

That pianissimo bassoon ensemble at 23:31


----------



## Bluemount Score

Ah I wished he would show us the Piccolo, or did I miss is it?

Otherwise I'm very convinced about this sound!


----------



## Ganampf

To me, in comparison to real recordings the whole orchestra sounds to dull and a bit muddy/undefined..
Anyone else get that expression? And do you think this can be counteracted b a different EQ style?
Really thinking about switching from EW Hollywood Diamond here...


----------



## Alex Fraser

I love the Jake Jackson mixes here. They're a boon for users like myself with crusty old Macs, but such a timesaver if you're up against it.


----------



## GtrString

I love the idea of having everything in one library, especially with a Spitfire library with all of the baked in room sound. Seems what you get is a bargain, but I wonder if we are to think of this as a “starter” version, and then later there will be a “pro” upgrade or something?


----------



## ProfoundSilence

ridgero said:


> Why skipped? The purpose of the video is to give a brief overview about the whole package. The video is not about the technical background at all.



on the contrary - they took the time to play short notes, but almost never play the same note twice.


----------



## styledelk

The mixes are great. And the multitongued horns sound fantastic. Well, the horns in generally sound great.


----------



## Sovereign

I have judged this latest video and found SFA guilty of robbing my wallet.


----------



## xanderscores

Noeticus said:


> Look at some of the HP Workstations. I cannot recommend Dell.



Why not Dell? Is there anything wrong with them?


----------



## cqd

I think i saw the bass flute in one of the menus..


----------



## gtrwll

To my ears the sound is great, and consistent throughout what's been shown. Will wait for the legato video, but strongly leaning towards getting this on launch, as it won't get any cheaper for me in the future sales.


----------



## KEM

Really love that multi tongued brass patch, sounds awesome!!


----------



## Bluemount Score

cqd said:


> I think i saw the bass flute in one of the menus..


Looking at the official articulations list, there shouldn't be a bass flute included.


----------



## gtrwll

BTW, anyone else impressed with the first chair violin? Would love to have a deeper walkthrough on that and other leaders.


----------



## ridgero

Bluemount Score said:


> Looking at the official articulations list, there shouldn't be a bass flute included.


----------



## gussunkri

As far as I can tell this sounds amazing. The Jackson mixes sound especially good.


----------



## GingerMaestro

Could someone with more experience mixing than I,advise if this would mix well with other sample libraries, or does it sound like the kind of library, that is a stand alone library for making mostly strictly "traditional" Orchestral music, all in one in a box ? That's kind of what it says on the tin, but wondered how it might blend with other stuff. i.e. writing pop/studio/hollywood etc...Thanks


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

GingerMaestro said:


> Could someone with more experience mixing than I,advise if this would mix well with other sample libraries, or does it sound like the kind of library, that is a stand alone library for making mostly strictly "traditional" Orchestral music, all in one in a box ? That's kind of what it says on the tin, but wondered how it might blend with other stuff. i.e. writing pop/studio/hollywood etc...Thanks



Sure, you have a high control over the mixing aspect with all that different micings. I would even say that this is monkey approved and dead simple to mix it with other libraries.

The brief overview sounded good, definitely a waay better what I heard from a couple of their previous outputs. It feels here a bit like going back to good old BML series but with the new Orchestra Hall. It has not an epic sound in terms of that epic music but man..you know what..its so welcome.


----------



## jaketanner

Is it me, or are the Horns not great? Seems that SF had some issues with the horn recording and even with the Studio Brass there seems to be issues. The Celli also sounded very synth like to me. I can get the EDU instructor discount but still debating this one. Hopefully the discount and the walkthrough legato will overlap a bit.


----------



## Sovereign

jaketanner said:


> Is it me, or are the Horns not great? Seems that SF had some issues with the horn recording and even with the Studio Brass there seems to be issues. The Celli also sounded very synth like to me. I can get the EDU instructor discount but still debating this one. Hopefully the discount and the walkthrough legato will overlap a bit.


Uhm I think the horns and celli sounded great.


----------



## mangopositive

You wouldn't really record the horns and celli as he was demoing them. I kind of see the synthiness there, but that's not the end result you would get when putting together a piece of music.


----------



## Zero&One

ProfoundSilence said:


> the amount of round robins on the shorts look like 4, which is less than I'd like - but it's important to hear.



The GUI was showing 5 on shorts


----------



## Sovereign

James H said:


> The GUI was showing 5 on shorts


With every patch as far as I could tell.


----------



## CT

Wow. I don't think I have any reservations about anything I heard in there. That doesn't happen very often....


----------



## Zero&One

miket said:


> Wow. I don't think I have any reservations about anything I heard in there. That doesn't happen very often....



Me either. All sounded great and he didn't really push the library anywhere near it's capability. Simmering on 40% throttle I feel.

I think Paul done an excellent job with the overview, pitching it just right so any potential newcomers weren't overloaded with details like layers, round robins and mics. Just pick a sound and slap on JJ's mix and you are good to go.
Future videos should hopefully please more seasoned composers as he mentioned, covering those aspects in detail.


----------



## christianhenson

Thanks so much for all your positive responses. It is such a daunting undertaking and your enthusiasm is helping us get not across the finish, but across the start line! As we said throughout the launch campaign this is just the beginning and if I have anything to do with it, this is going to be our most collaborative library to date. The Spitfire community is a unique opportunity to create something wonderful together and I look forward to doing that with you over the forthcoming weeks months and years.

...and yes the content surrounding release is going to be next level detailed. You're gonna get a deluge!!!


----------



## VinRice

Sounds fantastic. Undoubtedly the best orchestral recordings they have done - which you would expect really. Looks like Spitfire are going to steal my wallet yet again.

I'm a bit disappointed for my sleigh-bell and bass flute album that I was planning though.


----------



## Bluemount Score

jaketanner said:


> Is it me, or are the Horns not great? Seems that SF had some issues with the horn recording and even with the Studio Brass there seems to be issues. The Celli also sounded very synth like to me.


I thought I was alone.. In fact, horns and trumpets are the only two instruments I didn't liked that much, at least in Paul's short demo here. That's not my final statement of course.
Celli were fine. I actually _really_ liked the strings in general, woodwinds as well.



VinRice said:


> I'm a bit disappointed for my sleigh-bell and bass flute album that I was planning though.


Ah, nevermind, we don't need yet _another_ album like that


----------



## VinRice

There's another aspect to this which is that Spitfire also has to satisfy the bigwigs at BBC Music, who I imagine could be seriously finicky luvvies. Adds another layer of 'cannot fuck this up' to the mix. All to our benefit of course.


----------



## Alex Fraser

James H said:


> Me either. All sounded great and he didn't really push the library anywhere near it's capability. Simmering on 40% throttle I feel.
> 
> I think Paul done an excellent job with the overview, pitching it just right so any potential newcomers weren't overloaded with details like layers, round robins and mics. Just pick a sound and slap on JJ's mix and you are good to go.
> Future videos should hopefully please more seasoned composers as he mentioned, covering those aspects in detail.


Agreed. I was excited to hear about the forthcoming video on the legatos too. A good sign they’re something special and Spitfire aren’t shying away from showing them off. 

The room sounds great too. I’m looking forward to this one and now have to start the long purchase justification process. 😂


----------



## VinRice

...and BBC Management will be taking a full 360 on sustainability/legacy synergies and a deep dive into the social engagement matrix looking for geo-demographic/skillset correlation nuggets.


----------



## Alex Fraser

VinRice said:


> There's another aspect to this which is that Spitfire also has to satisfy the bigwigs at BBC Music, who I imagine could be seriously finicky luvvies. Adds another layer of 'cannot fuck this up' to the mix. All to our benefit of course.


Yeah, the Beeb have technical standards that have to be met for broadcast. (My own output has been subject to them, though I couldn’t tell you what they are.)

I wonder if they applied them to this.


----------



## VinRice

Alex Fraser said:


> The room sounds great too. I’m looking forward to this one and now have to start the long purchase justification process. 😂



I find the best policy is to think about the next project/competition/spec that I have planned and work out just how great this would be on it. By the end of the week I will be convinced that said project/competition/spec will be just *impossible* without this product. I will then convince the good lady wife that we really don't need a new stove/fridge/front door and that this is such a great *investment *for the future. I've been pretty successful so far, though living in the garden shed does have its challenges.


----------



## jaketanner

How quickly will the sound of the BBC be played out at this point? A year or two and they’ll become easily recognizable. Not sure if that’s good or bad. I can see clients saying u don’t want the “sound” of the BBC.


----------



## jaketanner

Bluemount Score said:


> I thought I was alone.. In fact, horns and trumpets are the only two instruments I didn't liked that much, at least in Paul's short demo here. That's not my final statement of course.
> Celli were fine. I actually _really_ liked the strings in general, woodwinds as well.
> 
> 
> Ah, nevermind, we don't need yet _another_ album like that


Hope I’m wrong about the brass as this would be my go to if the whole library works out.


----------



## Alex Fraser

VinRice said:


> I find the best policy is to think about the next project/competition/spec that I have planned and work out just how great this would be on it. By the end of the week I will be convinced that said project/competition/spec will be just *impossible* without this product. I will then convince the good lady wife that we really don't need a new stove/fridge/front door and that this is such a great *investment *for the future. I've been pretty successful so far, though living in the garden shed does have its challenges.


I know, right?
Very little of the musical work I do for ££ requires a symphonic orchestra. So this one would be just for me. And the last library I brought “just for me” was VSL Special Edition 1, over a decade ago. So maybe I’m due. 😏


----------



## Sovereign

VinRice said:


> I find the best policy is to think about the next project/competition/spec that I have planned and work out just how great this would be on it. By the end of the week I will be convinced that said project/competition/spec will be just *impossible* without this product. I will then convince the good lady wife that we really don't need a new stove/fridge/front door and that this is such a great *investment *for the future. I've been pretty successful so far, though living in the garden shed does have its challenges.


You guys have strange wives. Mine has no say in what I buy whatsoever, I decide if I get her stuff.


----------



## VinRice

Sovereign said:


> You guys have strange wives. Mine has no say in what I buy whatsoever, I decide if I get her stuff.



Hyperbole for comedic purposes. My wife earns more than me. She buys whatever she wants (which is usually for the house thank goodness. Gets me off the hook)


----------



## dzilizzi

My wife, um I mean husband, doesn't really get any say. Just like I don't for his next $200 plane. But we have a bill fund and an each of ours fund. And no kids. 

I tell you, when Paul did the strings at the beginning without using the mod slider and it sounded that good, I wanted it. I am trying hard to make myself wait for the wishlist. Hoping it will be on the May one. I know I will have to wait. But I really don't need it. So it is easier to justify as a wishlist. If I didn't have 6 orchestras already, I would grab it. Okay, not really 6. Maybe 5?


----------



## axb312

So, do we basically have performance legato for every legato patch in this library?


----------



## dzilizzi

The articulations I could see seemed to indicate that. Looking forward to the legato walkthrough.


----------



## Noeticus

xanderscores said:


> Why not Dell? Is there anything wrong with them?



There are many better options, so no reason to go with Dell.

HP workstations are used all over the film and music industry, and are great!


----------



## vdk-john

Hi,
If I'm going to get this I'll download it, probably a few days after release. But I never witnessed previous releases, in particular from spitfire.

With my connection it takes less than 24h to download 550GB when connection speed is close to the max (around 70mbps / 8.75MBps). However I wonder what type of download speeds we'll be able to get in the first few days...

I saw that it's possible to get it on a non SSD drive for about £80 but I recently bought a 6TB external (non SSD) drive for less than £100 so I'm not too keen 

Thoughts?


----------



## dzilizzi

Dell's are okay. They tend to be hit or miss. If you get a good one, they will last and do an okay job.


----------



## Leslie Fuller

VinRice said:


> There's another aspect to this which is that Spitfire also has to satisfy the bigwigs at BBC Music, who I imagine could be seriously finicky luvvies. Adds another layer of 'cannot fuck this up' to the mix. All to our benefit of course.



Yes, With all the fuss over the BBC’s finances in relation to the license fee and everything that has gone before. The BBC have to “dot the i’s and cross the t’s” with everything they do these days, and I imagine a BBCSO joint venture with Spitfire Audio falls under a “value for money” scrutiny.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Although the strings didn't give me any "wow" factor, the rest sounded stunning, including the brass which I was hoping would be an improvement over the studio series. Looking forward to more walkthroughs! 

@paulthomson I really enjoy your approach to these Spitfire walkthroughs, you explain the patches in Layman terms which is very helpful.


----------



## christianhenson

Leslie Fuller said:


> Yes, With all the fuss over the BBC’s finances in relation to the license fee and everything that has gone before. The BBC have to “dot the i’s and cross the t’s” with everything they do these days, and I imagine a BBCSO joint venture with Spitfire Audio falls under a “value for money” scrutiny.



Hi there,

This is a joint venture with BBC Studios (formerly BBC Worldwide) they're the commercial wing of the BBC. So the Spitfire / BBC Studios put in a joint investment into employing the players of BBCSO and the use of studios. 

I have to say that the musicians were so up for it, they totally got what we are trying to achieve and the deep pride that runs through the Orchestra means that everyone turned up not only with their performing game on but these were some of the greatest collaborative sessions we have ever worked on.

It does feel different from anything I've used, and whilst I couldn't describe sonically what I mean by it, the feeling is that of unparalleled cohesion.


----------



## VinRice

I think questions of whether 'the sound' of each section is great or not are purely subjective. What's more important here is whether it's a convincing capture of the instruments, the quality of the mic options (which looks exceptional, frankly), the consistency and accuracy of the articulations, the quality of the room ambience and the cohesion of the orchestra as a whole. Will it sound like a real orchestra in a real place? From what we have seen this looks like Spitfire's best project so far.


----------



## Zero&One

vdk-john said:


> With my connection it takes less than 24h to download 550GB when connection speed is close to the max (around 70mbps / 8.75MBps). However I wonder what type of download speeds we'll be able to get in the first few days...



I've personally never had any problems downloading and that's many times during sales. I'd imagine that's when they are getting the most hammering. So can't see you having many issues tbh, also several (me included) will have the SSD so the load should be even less.


----------



## jamwerks

Sounds lovely. Great mic options. I was wrong, those spill mics do sound interesting! Great sounding stereo mixes also. Can't wait!


----------



## pawelmorytko

I would really have to be sold on every single instrument in this library to buy it, because if I'm not happy with the strings for example, I'll end up using another library, which will defeat the whole purpose of having a whole all-in-one cohesive orchestra in the same room with the same players. 

I'm really looking forward to more demos and reviews once the library is out. Walkthroughs are great and all, finding out the technical details about the library, but I'm most interested in the sound of the library.

I might leave it till next year's sale anyway before thinking about getting this library. Will give it more time for walkthroughs, reviews, and non-spitfire demos to emerge, and will be able to see how the whole collaborative idea will turn out, if people are still using and raving on about this library a year later, and what the updates will have to offer.


----------



## vdk-john

James H said:


> So can't see you having many issues tbh, also several (me included) will have the SSD so the load should be even less.



Thanks James.
Early this year I bought a 2TB SSD so that's also one reason I will in case download it. But it's nice that people ordering the SSD will get it on day one if I remember/understood correctly


----------



## Zero&One

jaketanner said:


> How quickly will the sound of the BBC be played out at this point? A year or two and they’ll become easily recognizable. Not sure if that’s good or bad. I can see clients saying u don’t want the “sound” of the BBC.



That's the same as wondering if Orchestral Tools stuff get's dismissed by the Epic genre though? And they seem to be doing ok still.
I think BBCSO has lots of versatility and those mic options gives the library a load of *cough* space to be used in, especially with additional reverb sends or layering with LCO/BHCT etc etc


----------



## Noeticus

I think the strings would sound better in Paul's video demo if there was more reverb added.

May I also suggest that everyone here BUY the Spitfire BBCSO Library as it is indeed awesome, and a dream come true.


----------



## Chungus

🤔 Got around to watching the video, and, is it just me, or is the timpani kinda all over the place in the stereo field? Like it sounded as if the bottom end was panned far to the left, while the top end is about the right.


----------



## Ruffian Price

The Close Wide mix had the different drums at different spots in the stereo field, which made sense to me.


----------



## Zero&One

Chungus said:


> 🤔 Got around to watching the video, and, is it just me, or is the timpani kinda all over the place in the stereo field? Like it sounded as if the bottom end was panned far to the left, while the top end is about the right.



If you watch 10:28 Paul explains it better than I could


----------



## Øivind

Chungus said:


> 🤔 Got around to watching the video, and, is it just me, or is the timpani kinda all over the place in the stereo field? Like it sounded as if the bottom end was panned far to the left, while the top end is about the right.


Sounded like it was 2 handed and each hand had a mic that was strongly panned left and right. There did seem to be options on some mics to adjust the width, but it was indeed strange, sounded like if there where 2 differently placed timpanist. Usually I hear them placed dead center.


----------



## Zedcars

Chungus said:


> 🤔 Got around to watching the video, and, is it just me, or is the timpani kinda all over the place in the stereo field? Like it sounded as if the bottom end was panned far to the left, while the top end is about the right.


Yes, I see/hear what you mean. It’s a very wide stereo spread. I understand they would be some spread due to the different timpano sizes, but it sounds like the timpanist has extraordinarily long arms. Maybe it just depends on the mic choices.


----------



## Noeticus

So.... If Spitfire sells 1000 units of its BBCSO Library globally at the $750. into price, then that's $750,000., which is more than enough money to pay to record more instruments etc. and buy a cup of tea.


----------



## Zedcars

Re Timp Wide Stereo Field

I think what we’re hearing there is Jake’s ‘Mix 2’ alternative mix which is purposefully wider (“hyped” as Paul calls it), and the ‘Wide Close’ mic which is also wider by design. The Decca tree is narrower, as is Mix 1.


----------



## Zero&One

"Close Wide Pan" mix from what I understand, is the perspective as if I was sitting right in front of the section. So in reality it's a few feet of sound and not 100ft wide "Stretch Armstrong" version.


----------



## Architekton

Gonna preorder for sure, this sounds amazing! Well done, Spitfire!!!


----------



## tabulius

I don’t know much about the Spitfire player but can we assign the articulations to velocity? I really like to play shorts live with shorter spiccatos triggered lower velocities and marcatos higher velocities. Mod wheel controls dynamics. If this is possible now or possibly with future updates that would be awesome.

I didn’t expect to be amazed by the woodwinds but in this first walkthru there was something special and I really liked the sound of the players combined with that space. I don’t know is this a ”game changing” sample orchestra but there are gems for sure and value is great. I wish I didn’t buy ”that one brass library”, and now I could have bought a well balanced full orchestra for the same money...


----------



## VinRice

Noeticus said:


> So.... If Spitfire sells 1000 units of its BBCSO Library globally at the $750. into price, then that's $750,000., which is more than enough money to pay to record more instruments etc. and buy a cup of tea.



I think they would be in serious trouble if they only sold 1000 units.


----------



## Zedcars

James H said:


> "Close Wide Pan" mix from what I understand, is the perspective as if I was sitting right in front of the section. So in reality it's a few feet of sound and not 100ft wide "Stretch Armstrong" version.


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

I'm honestly very very tempted to buy this even if I don't want to and most importantly I don't need it. What is tempting me is not just the sound which is obviously quite impressive, but the flexibility and consistency across sections and different articulations (except for those crazy loud violas pizzicatos maybe). 

If all legatos will turn out to be as playable as the violins seem to be, in my opinion it would be quite a big improvement from what Spitfire had ever done before. The only thing that worries me a little is whether or not it is possible to purge unused samples and how that would affect the performance of a big template with one track per articulation. Except for this this though, I'm secretly hoping the next walkthroughs will unlikely turn out to be a let down, just because I'm really not looking forward to spend a grand for something I had not at all planned


----------



## jononotbono

NoamL said:


> What I would like most of all for this workflow, is if when you turned up the woodwind spot mics you were also turning up the woodwind spill mics for the strings, brass and percussion.
> 
> And vice versa all around. As this most closely mimics what would happen in a real recording session.



That would be amazing!


----------



## Begfred

jaketanner said:


> How quickly will the sound of the BBC be played out at this point? A year or two and they’ll become easily recognizable. Not sure if that’s good or bad. I can see clients saying u don’t want the “sound” of the BBC.


A decade ago most of the orchestral programming was made with VSL cube and EWSO. I never saw a client who even knows what was VSL. I think most “natural” orchestral libraries are future proof unlike other kind of pre-processed or phrase based libraries that could become overused. Of coarse they can become limited compared to the fresh new libraries but soundings outdated I doubt.


----------



## borisb2

Noeticus said:


> HP workstations are used all over the film and music industry


Using HP Z-workstations here for vfx (and music) .. really rock-solid machines


----------



## NoamL

I'm probably not a buyer just because I'm all set for orchestra but here are some honest thoughts anyway.  

*Likes:* 

Start with the microphone positions. Wow. The spill mics really do make a difference compared to the tree. It feels like the sound is captured as it goes across the entire stage. JJ's mixes sound great and probably they'll do the trick 90% of the time which means this library might be quite accessible even on stock computers. The close mics are REALLY nice and close and capture a great sound. Not at all like the C mic in Albion or the Cr (close ribbon) in Mural. Can picture some really nice 70s/80s style mixes if you want to mix in the close mics more.

The hall simply sounds wonderful on the brass and woodwinds. It made me look forlornly at some of my favorite instruments, it's hard to achieve that "opened up" hall sound with plugin reverb sometimes, and here with BBCSO it's the real thing. I like the space QUITE a bit more than Air (bet HZ disagrees!).

The woodwinds feel REALLY good. They have a musical, liquid and lively sound not at all like bored players recording one note at a time. Plus a beautiful and appropriate depth to the sound.

The brass sounded pretty darn good too, with a full capture of the dynamics and a nice variety of note-attack styles. Keep in mind we were mostly hearing the 4-horn patch so triads were 12 horns, etc.

As always one of the strongest aspects of Spitfire is their attention to auxiliary instruments. Loved the blatty contrabass tuba - and the contrabass clarinet really extends the range! 

Similarly there's a thorough attention paid to auxiliary articulations here, like a full setup of true con sord strings, very nice.

You can't argue with the value. There was Composer Cloud, and the Albion redo, and Berlin Orchestra Inspire, and SSO/Masse - it seems like year upon year there are deeper and cheaper "all in one" products from every developer and Spitfire have nosed ahead once again with BBCSO. 

*Concerns:* 

I have to admit as a strings guy, the strings didn't feel too special. In part because it feels like kind of standard post-Eastwest-quality sampling and in part because the performance legato didn't convince me. I wouldn't expect it to, tbh, because Paul was playing some quite challenging passages for VI strings and performing live. I know there's a full legato video coming so this is more of a "reserve judgement" than a "dislike."

Feels like we got a demo of everything but the legatos - again I know there's a video coming - but it'll be really crucial to learn how many dynamics of recorded legato transitions there are, etc. Some people think this is number crunching. It's really about whether the legato transitions can fit into every dynamic of performance. For example if you listen to the legatos in Hollywood Brass, to pick on an older library, they sound quite good at _mf_ and _f_ but if you try to play at _mp_ the legato transitions pop right out and sound glurpy, you have to work around it or use fewer transitions when writing quietly.

In the end a lot of what I look for in a VI is just the sustains and legatos, not a highly varied palette of "sound pad colors." It seems like a wide and growing difference with the philosophy of Spitfire's products unfortunately. 

I wanna make a point here for clarity's sake - I certainly do not care so much about legatos because I'm a fascist for realism or because I have a fetish for sounding like John Williams. It's simply because it is the main use case in my work. Legato strings - sometimes lyrical, sometimes emotional, sometimes fast, sometimes non vib, but the same basic articulation - accounted for 75% of the string writing I either write on assignment or am asked to synthestrate. Another 20% would be string motor stuff using a combination of spiccato, staccatissimo and staccato - so those articulations are crucial as well, especially their interchangeability. And the final 5% would be tremolos and harmonics. Everything else is used less than 1% of the time. 

So, there's quite a hierarchy there. 

I don't even have pizzicatos loaded in my synthestration template, if I write some I'll throw some in from my favorite library or even whatever library I scroll down to first. And while, as an ex string player, I do regret the clunkiness of "emulated" con sord and I'd probably write for muted strings MUCH more often if my template had true samples of 'em, that consideration doesn't trump using the library with the best out of the box sustains and legatos.


----------



## zolhof

Here's a multitrack recording of http://www.multitracks.cambridge-mt.com/GnessinAcademyOrchestra_PianoConcertoK414_Full.zip (Mozart's Piano Concerto no. 12) for those who are curious to hear how "bleed" is a big thing in live orchestral recordings.

I'm very optimistic that the bleed microphones in the BBCSO will allow great sonic flexibility that before we had to fake with plugins. Folks got so used to striping that this "new" workflow should be approached carefully to prevent phase issues or messed up stereo image. For this exact reason that in Sonokinetic's Tutti and Vivace you cannot toggle the spots if you have the Tutti channel activated.

I like to use the mains and have the spots to highlight the nuances of specific instruments. A cool trick I learned from Steve Colby (Boston Pops) is to leave the piccolo, bass clarinet and contrabassoon unmiked (no spots), and picked up as bleed into nearby microphones, thus creating the impression of depth. Also, most of the Pops rich horn sound comes from bleed into the winds microphones. It will be really cool to finally be able to do such things on a sample level, instead of faking it with busing.


----------



## Pablocrespo

I would like more simple and exposed melodies in the next Paul’s walkthrough.

It always seems to be random notes, and I never grasp what the library can do in a lyrical manner.

Also a good measure in the legato video would be alternating thirds in 8ths. (Like Mahler’s 9th beginning)

Just a small request @paulthomson to show more of the library which sounds very good!


----------



## Eric G

Pablocrespo said:


> I would like more simple and exposed melodies in the next Paul’s walkthrough.
> 
> It always seems to be random notes, and I never grasp what the library can do in a lyrical manner.
> 
> Also a good measure in the legato video would be alternating thirds in 8ths. (Like Mahler’s 9th beginning)
> 
> Just a small request @paulthomson to show more of the library which sounds very good!



And we wonder why Paul Thomson has expressed performance anxiety about his demos. Geez


----------



## Zero&One

BBCSO "Our most scrutinised announcement to date" 2019


----------



## Alex Fraser

NoamL said:


> I wanna make a point here for clarity's sake - I certainly do not care so much about legatos because I'm a fascist for realism or because I have a fetish for sounding like John Williams.


I'm looking forward to the legato video too, because I _do _have a fetish for sounding like John Williams. 😀

The other thing that struck me on a second viewing this evening (I know, judge all you want) is how integrated and fuss free everything is. I'm not sure I've ever seen a library that makes getting up and running with the full orchestra look quite so painless, especially with the pre-made mixes.

Whilst I can _do_ the technical stuff, I _hate_ doing it. A library that doesn't kill the creative process stone dead every five minutes has always been "the dream." That it's Spitfire who appear to have solved the riddle is a massive bonus.


----------



## Pablocrespo

Eric G said:


> And we wonder why Paul Thomson has expressed performance anxiety about his demos. Geez


Maybe my post came out too harsh because english is not my first language, so I do apologize. 

Don’t get me wrong, I love Paul’s walkthroughs, I just wished to hear simpler melodies, given that this orchestra is also targeted for “classical” writing, so if he hadn’t made the legato videos, that was my suggestion. 

I am very excited about this one, but halfway thru the cinematic orchestra investment so every detail is welcomed to tip me over!

Again @paulthomson sorry if I came too harsh! (Manners maketh man, they say)


----------



## Eric G

Pablocrespo said:


> Maybe my post came out too harsh because english is not my first language, so I do apologize.
> 
> Don’t get me wrong, I love Paul’s walkthroughs, I just wished to hear simpler melodies, given that this orchestra is also targeted for “classical” writing, so if he hadn’t made the legato videos, that was my suggestion.
> 
> I am very excited about this one, but halfway thru the cinematic orchestra investment so every detail is welcomed to tip me over!
> 
> Again @paulthomson sorry if I came too harsh! (Manners maketh man, they say)



No need to apologize. I wasn't trying to respond harshly either. It was meant to be light hearted. We are all pretty excited


----------



## PerryD

I've been recording with keyboards since the mid 1970's. I remember how excited I was when this all-in-one orchestra came out.


----------



## PerryD

PerryD said:


> I've been recording with keyboards since the mid 1970's. I remember how excited I was when this all-in-one orchestra came out.



So yes, I am onboard for ordering BBC SO.


----------



## Fleer

Man, that Proteus does bring back memories.


----------



## dcoscina

Fleer said:


> Man, that Proteus does bring back memories.


Yeah I jumped on that too but it was soooo dry. It needed midiverb or some processing. And even then it was a bit harsh compared to the Roland U20.


----------



## borisb2

Fleer said:


> Man, that Proteus does bring back memories.


And then the E-mu ProFormance piano came out (1/2 19“ 😋 ).. I was so blown away


----------



## AllanH

I really like the sound in Paul's play-through. JJ's stereo mix is (again) golden, it would appear. The Maida Vale Studio really gives the brass the a good space to ring out in and the Woodwinds sound beautiful. I'm very much looking forward to this.


----------



## Fleer

Yeah, sounds pretty, pretty good. Physically dedicated space, artistically dedicated players, and the masterful recording skills of Spitfire Audio. Unbeatable combination.


----------



## artomatic

It's a yes for me! There's something special about this library. 
Looking forward to the next video.


----------



## jononotbono

Come on guys. This thread is turning out to be really positive now. It just feels weird.


----------



## markleake

Just to add some uncomfortable positivity... it sounds fantastic to me.

All the instruments demonstrated sounded great, nothing strange or unexpected. I had lots of "oh, that sounds beautiful" moments when watching the walkthrough, especially the brass and woodwinds. The articulations are not only consistent through the instruments, they sound like they're recorded very consistently too. And those mic positions... just wow. This looks like an improvement on SSO even (a big feat), and I think sets a new benchmark for Spitfire.

Congrats to the Spitfire team!


----------



## Zedcars

jononotbono said:


> Come on guys. This thread is turning out to be really positive now. It just feels weird.


You can take your opinionated views on thread positivity and shove it right up your...

Is that better now? 😜


----------



## Zedcars

On a serious note, as these guys (Paul and Christian) are so active here and on YouTube etc, you really get the feeling they care deeply about this release in a way that is rare in business. I’m pleased for them that the buzz seems to be positive. Respectful criticism and valid concerns are also important, but so far it is very promising.

I can’t imagine how depressing it must be to have released a painstakingly created sample library only for it to be received badly.

I’m very positive about this release and excited about related future announcements.


----------



## Zero&One

Me too. It's a shame passion, excitement and dedication can be attributed to fan boy and borg like behaviour, but it's expected these days on tinternet I guess.

I really hope the community embraces the sharing aspect for learning. Many of the instruments I have little to no experience with in real life like a harp, and most winds to be honest. So having more experienced guys drop short midi examples of these would be gold dust to many folk. Otherwise I'll keep writing harp parts for an octopus.


----------



## Sovereign

markleake said:


> All the instruments demonstrated sounded great, nothing strange or unexpected. I had lots of "oh, that sounds beautiful" moments when watching the walkthrough, especially the brass and woodwinds.


The woodwinds surprised me the most, I was afraid these would disappoint. But they really captured a great, lively sound. Awesome.


----------



## Denkii

Alex Fraser said:


> The other thing that struck me on a second viewing this evening (I know, judge all you want) is how integrated and fuss free everything is. I'm not sure I've ever seen a library that makes getting up and running with the full orchestra look quite so painless, especially with the pre-made mixes.


I remember being excited about Edirol Orchestral for that exact reason half a lifetime ago.


----------



## jaketanner

I hope they don’t forget about their other libraries and the little tweaks they need once this is released. I feel like BBC is going to take priority. As it is now, I can’t even chat with them on their site like before.


----------



## VgsA

jaketanner said:


> I hope they don’t forget about their other libraries and the little tweaks they need once this is released.


This, please. This.


----------



## meradium

VgsA said:


> This, please. This.


However, I fear this is just the "law of business"...


----------



## VgsA

meradium said:


> However, I fear this is just the "law of business"...


Yeah... I'm afraid you're right.


----------



## Zedcars

Evidence that they are not abandoning other libraries:



christianhenson said:


> As far as I know we've done a shit ton of material for HZ which he is going to allow us to put into a very chunky upgrade, it would make sense to me that we also update the plugin at that point with all these enhancements. Whilst I take that as a given James I thank you for reminding me to check this with the team...



That was in reference to a question about HZ Strings.

And this, in this thread also:



christianhenson said:


> These libraries are made with every effort we can muster and every inch of love we can offer. Something we have always believed in is choice. Whether it be recorded at the hall in Air, the studio at Air, or our own tiny studio in KX, with Hilary's band, the LCO or indeed the BBCSO, by giving our profession choice we give ourselves the chance of finding our own individual voices. *What we learn from BBCSO we will apply to Albion, what we learn from recent Hall recordings we will apply to BBCSO and HZS. What we learn from Kontakt we apply to our software, what we learn from our software we apply to what we do in Kontakt. We're not stopping any of these adventures, we're simply broadening our, and we hope everyone else's horizons.*



(Emphasis mine)


----------



## jaketanner

Zedcars said:


> Evidence that they are not abandoning other libraries


Abandoning no...back burner for a while is what I'm afraid of. There are issues with the Studio Brass that needs to be addressed and others from what I hear...just don't want to feel like owners of other libraries are on the back burner because of this new one. Many developers do this...instead of fixing and updating products that customers have, they introduce new ones and updates get put off...I love SF, and hoping their team is large enough to handle all their libraries.


----------



## Zedcars

jaketanner said:


> Abandoning no...back burner for a while is what I'm afraid of. There are issues with the Studio Brass that needs to be addressed and others from what I hear...just don't want to feel like owners of other libraries are on the back burner because of this new one. Many developers do this...instead of fixing and updating products that customers have, they introduce new ones and updates get put off...I love SF, and hoping their team is large enough to handle all their libraries.


I take your point. It must be a fine balancing act. They obviously do need to release new products to keep money flowing. A huge resource intensive project such as this will likely draw resources away from other areas. But, at least the suggestion is that they are aware of issues that need addressing.

Have you had any luck getting your issue(s) with Studio Brass at least acknowledged with support?


----------



## Sovereign

Not to curb any of the wonderful enthusiasm, but I do feel it is lacking a bit of technical innovation we see in other libraries. Stuff like polyphonic legato and/or auto divisi, legato repetition (I really hope I'm wrong on this one and it is in there), additional bowings, etc. should really be on their list of things to add eventually.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

As far as the importance of short round robins : it's much easier to program multi-tongue patterns with short notes. Also allows for more intricate tonging rhythms. 

Might sound a little weird mix wise(im playing with some stuff) but this is just step entered in, with 0 humanization. I can create more intentional rhythmic patterns/accents/ect this way - over using a dedicated multitongue patch.

And to prove that even without time machine this can still work at multiple speeds - I pushed it up to 180bpm(probably the farthest I'd push it, but honestly pretty fast for tonguing anyways) and down to 84 bpm. I'd much rather the extra sampling time either go to shorts, or sampling multi-tonging and then slicing them up into round robins.


----------



## jaketanner

Zedcars said:


> I take your point. It must be a fine balancing act. They obviously do need to release new products to keep money flowing. A huge resource intensive project such as this will likely draw resources away from other areas. But, at least the suggestion is that they are aware of issues that need addressing.
> 
> Have you had any luck getting your issue(s) with Studio Brass at least acknowledged with support?


Actually don’t have the library yet. But I will soon, and I think SF already acknowledged the issues and it will be addressed. I just want it now while it’s on sale. Lol


----------



## jamwerks

Just speculation here but I'm thinking SF will port most of their libraries to the SF player (does it have an official name yet?) at which time they would be doing enhancements, new material, bug fixes etc.

As for BBC, hopefully we won't have to wait too long for the expansions and/or "Pro" version. With so many major devs (VSL, OT, 8Dio) being relatively quiet of late, our alloted sample funds are piling up with nowhere to spend. So bring them on!


----------



## jaketanner

jamwerks said:


> Just speculation here but I'm thinking SF will port most of their libraries to the SF player (does it have an official name yet?) at which time they would be doing enhancements, new material, bug fixes etc.
> 
> As for BBC, hopefully we won't have to wait too long for the expansions and/or "Pro" version. With so many major devs (VSL, OT, 8Dio) being relatively quiet of late, our alloted sample funds are piling up with nowhere to spend. So bring them on!


If the other developers are gonna come out with something, it would make sense to have them come out with it before the holidays or before Black Friday otherwise people will spend their money elsewhere. Makes no sense to come out with a library after a big sale like that. As far as Audio bro, and LASS3, they won’t be available until after the new year for sure so they’re out LOL


----------



## dzilizzi

I remember the last time I signed on to my Spitfire account a number of the libraries had updates (and may still - I don't think I had time to update them at the time. I was doing a quick download of a Lab library for something I was working on. I don't remember which ones though, so it may or may not have included Studio Brass. I do remember one of the symphony series was being updated. So they do continue to update way after release. They are very quiet about it though. I only knew because I signed on.


----------



## Fleer

Same here. Got updates for Albion One and Tundra.


----------



## jaketanner

dzilizzi said:


> I remember the last time I signed on to my Spitfire account a number of the libraries had updates (and may still - I don't think I had time to update them at the time. I was doing a quick download of a Lab library for something I was working on. I don't remember which ones though, so it may or may not have included Studio Brass. I do remember one of the symphony series was being updated. So they do continue to update way after release. They are very quiet about it though. I only knew because I signed on.


That’s an issue with lots of developers. If there’s an update, an email for courtesy needs to go out.


----------



## servandus

I wonder if the vib/non vib crossfade is also available for the woodwinds (clarinets aside). It's mentioned in the video for the strings only, but it would also be appreciated for common woodwind pedals/pads/choral writting etc., and to allow more control on legato lines. The overall sound is fantastic, but I especially love the WWs.


----------



## lp59burst

PerryD said:


> I've been recording with keyboards since the mid 1970's. I remember how excited I was when this all-in-one orchestra came out.



Sounds a bit synthy to me... does it have true legato? How many RR's per articulation?


----------



## synthetic

Really sounds incredible, I'm sold. The winds are just lovely and the strings sound agile in that first example. Looking forward to more walkthroughs. 

The Proteus/2 is actually a fun comparison. They both cost $999 and came with their own sample player. Probably an 8MB sample library on the Proteus though.


----------



## Dr.Quest

synthetic said:


> Really sounds incredible, I'm sold. The winds are just lovely and the strings sound agile in that first example. Looking forward to more walkthroughs.
> 
> The Proteus/2 is actually a fun comparison. They both cost $999 and came with their own sample player. Probably an 8MB sample library on the Proteus though.


Ha! I think you’re right, it was 8mb. I had the Orchestral and the World one. Used it all the time.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Dr.Quest said:


> Ha! I think you’re right, it was 8mb. I had the Orchestral and the World one. Used it all the time.



The Proteus was great. I bought an Ensoniq ASR10 sampler....with a whopping 16MB (yes, MB!), for $3000 in 1992. That's why I'm always baffled at people complaining about paying $750 for an epic VI that is 600GB.


----------



## Dr.Quest

Wolfie2112 said:


> The Proteus was great. I bought an Ensoniq ASR10 sampler....with a whopping 16MB (yes, MB!), for $3000 in 1992. That's why I'm always baffled at people complaining about paying $750 for an epic VI that is 600GB.


Same here. They don’t realize how far we’ve come. Anything is possible now.


----------



## dpasdernick

synthetic said:


> Really sounds incredible, I'm sold. The winds are just lovely and the strings sound agile in that first example. Looking forward to more walkthroughs.
> 
> The Proteus/2 is actually a fun comparison. They both cost $999 and came with their own sample player. Probably an 8MB sample library on the Proteus though.



A big difference is you could sell the Proteus 2 if you wanted to.


----------



## kriskrause

One of Christian’s recent videos showed a recording session at Air with Leon Bosch, which I am hopefully will be a part of a Solo Strings update that includes bass legato. It seems like working on existing libraries and new, unannounced ones is still very much a priority for them.


----------



## Ihnoc

Quick questions for @SpitfireSupport:

Can you force the dynamics of short notes to be controlled by CC1/dynamics CC? You can do this in the Kontakt libraries but I haven't seen much of the new player to know.
I think it was answered but can we download just certain microphone positions such as the mixes? As great as the granularity is, I would rather just use the mix for portable work.
Thanks!


----------



## Geoff Grace

dpasdernick said:


> A big difference is you could sell the Proteus 2 if you wanted to.


Well, the difference isn't so great in this case because you'd be lucky to find a buyer for the Proteus at any price; but I get your point: Spitfire doesn't allow resale of its products, and it may be wise to factor that into your purchasing decisions if that's important to you.

Noted.

It also may be worth considering that today's software is cheap enough that the loss of not being able to resell is somewhat comparable to the depreciation loss of selling hardware back in the old days. For example, I bought my OB-8 in 1983 for $3,200 and sold it for $750 in 1990 to help finance my M1. Granted, it was seven years old at that point, and I got my money's worth out of it; but the loss was sizable—$2,450 in '83-'90 dollars—and worth factoring into purchasing decisions as well.

As long as we go into these purchases with our eyes open, we're more likely to make choices that are best for us.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## dzilizzi

The other thing to think about is that anything electronic may need repairing, if it still works, whereas the BBCSO will sound the same in 10 years as it sounds today.


----------



## borisb2

dzilizzi said:


> The other thing to think about is that anything electronic may need repairing, if it still works, whereas the BBCSO will sound the same in 10 years as it sounds today


Well, you could accidently delete the library.. and at the same time your internet provider goes down so you can‘t download it again - but you can‘t delete a piece of hardware .. ok, unlikely case 😋😋


----------



## KEM

jamwerks said:


> Just speculation here but I'm thinking SF will port most of their libraries to the SF player (does it have an official name yet?) at which time they would be doing enhancements, new material, bug fixes etc.
> 
> As for BBC, hopefully we won't have to wait too long for the expansions and/or "Pro" version. With so many major devs (VSL, OT, 8Dio) being relatively quiet of late, our alloted sample funds are piling up with nowhere to spend. So bring them on!



Honestly wouldn’t mind that at all so long as we actually get fixes and enhancements


----------



## GingerMaestro

As SF seem to be teaming up with Apple & Logic Pro X, does anyone think it likely that they will set up some Articulation Sets ? It seems to take me a long time to type these in each time I buy a new library. I think there is one company that makes these already, but would make more sense if they came with the original library. Any thoughts ?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

GingerMaestro said:


> As SF seem to be teaming up with Apple & Logic Pro X, does anyone think it likely that they will set up some Articulation Sets ? It seems to take me a long time to type these in each time I buy a new library. I think there is one company that makes these already, but would make more sense if they came with the original library. Any thoughts ?



They’re teaming up with Apple? Highly unlikely. It just happens they prefer Logic.


----------



## dpasdernick

Geoff Grace said:


> Well, the difference isn't so great in this case because you'd be lucky to find a buyer for the Proteus at any price; but I get your point: Spitfire doesn't allow resale of its products, and it may be wise to factor that into your purchasing decisions if that's important to you.
> 
> Noted.
> 
> It also may be worth considering that today's software is cheap enough that the loss of not being able to resell is somewhat comparable to the depreciation loss of selling hardware back in the old days. For example, I bought my OB-8 in 1983 for $3,200 and sold it for $750 in 1990 to help finance my M1. Granted, it was seven years old at that point, and I got my money's worth out of it; but the loss was sizable—$2,450 in '83-'90 dollars—and worth factoring into purchasing decisions as well.
> 
> As long as we go into these purchases with our eyes open, we're more likely to make choices that are best for us.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff



You should have held on to the OB-8. It's worth a fortune today. 

It's not really apples to apples to talk about selling a 30 year old rompler box with a brand new piece of software. I you threw down a grand buying the Proteus 2, 30 years ago, and decided you didn't like it you could have sold it privately for around $800 even a month later. A month from now, or even 30 years from now, you will not be able to sell the SpitFire software. 

A really interesting point as far as I am concerned is that both "instruments" basically have the same technology. Sampled musicians trying hard to replace an orchestra.


----------



## Alex Fraser

GingerMaestro said:


> As SF seem to be teaming up with Apple & Logic Pro X, does anyone think it likely that they will set up some Articulation Sets ? It seems to take me a long time to type these in each time I buy a new library. I think there is one company that makes these already, but would make more sense if they came with the original library. Any thoughts ?


I asked support and they thought it wasn’t likely. If there’s a place we can share them, we can all contribute.


Wolfie2112 said:


> They’re teaming up with Apple? Highly unlikely. It just happens they prefer Logic.


Spitfire mentioned they’d been talking with the Logic developers during the development of the library. (Keynote) Not so much a team up but probably advice.


----------



## Mason

Sovereign said:


> Not to curb any of the wonderful enthusiasm, but I do feel it is lacking a bit of technical innovation we see in other libraries. Stuff like polyphonic legato and/or auto divisi, legato repetition (I really hope I'm wrong on this one and it is in there), additional bowings, etc. should really be on their list of things to add eventually.



I agree, and at the moment I don’t see the big need of this since having their SSO already. Even if it’s the BBC it won’t make your performance sound anything like it.


----------



## Zedcars

^ Anyone hear an owl?



Spoiler: Eh?



Post number two eight two oh just flew by. :emoji_owl:


----------



## prodigalson

GingerMaestro said:


> As SF seem to be teaming up with Apple & Logic Pro X, does anyone think it likely that they will set up some Articulation Sets ? It seems to take me a long time to type these in each time I buy a new library. I think there is one company that makes these already, but would make more sense if they came with the original library. Any thoughts ?



In theory, if the library is as consistent articulation wise as it seems it might be you might just need to create one or two articulation sets and copy them across the orchestra. You may need to reorder the articulations in each preset though to standardize how they respond to the articulation set


----------



## NoamL

Was anyone else at the Spitfire Hike this evening? Very cool! Met @christianhenson so that's one bucket list item ticked off  he was filming one of his vlogs too! Sounds like there's more about BBCSO soon!!

The idea of articulation sets is an interesting one... initially I thought "nah, for this to be universal Spitfire can't be relying on users to learn/understand the articulation set feature." But, then again, they have tried this before with UACC back in the BML era. And the whole sampling world would be better off if some universal but flexible standard had been adopted years ago!


----------



## Geoff Grace

NoamL said:


> Was anyone else at the Spitfire Hike this evening? Very cool! Met @christianhenson so that's one bucket list item ticked off  he was filming one of his vlogs too! Sounds like there's more about BBCSO soon!!


I signed up for the hike but decided to pass as I wasn't feeling up to it. I also wondered whether a group hiking up a dry hill might create an unhealthy amount of dust to breathe in.

I met *Christian* at last year's Spitfire LA event. It would have been nice to see him again and to have met you, *Noam*. I hope you had fun!

Best,

Geoff


----------



## IvanP

Ok I'm definitely sold!

Just one question though, if it has been addressed in the 142 pages (couldn't manage to find it though!)

The library CAN still be DOWNLOADABLE, can't it?

I'd rather use it with a portable, external SSD in order to be able to use it too on a portable rig. Installation and Ram memory management would work exactly the same as in the pre-installed SSD Drive, wouldn't it?

Maybe @christianhenson can chime in?

Thank you!

And please....make Cubase Templates too!!

Thank you!!


----------



## dzilizzi

borisb2 said:


> Well, you could accidently delete the library.. and at the same time your internet provider goes down so you can‘t download it again - but you can‘t delete a piece of hardware .. ok, unlikely case 😋😋


I'm more likely to drop a piece of hardware. Or worse, drop water on it. Then it will be deleted in the real trash can or recycle bin.


----------



## Zero&One

IvanP said:


> The library CAN still be DOWNLOADABLE, can't it?



It's a download like all of their products. 600GB
The SSD option allows instant play on release and helps people with slower download speeds like myself.


----------



## star.keys

I like what I hear in the walkthroughs. Well done @christianhenson, @paulthomson and the Spitfire team.


----------



## star.keys

IvanP said:


> Ok I'm definitely sold!
> 
> And please....make Cubase Templates too!!
> 
> Thank you!!



I agree, it would be helpful to have Cubase templates. That's fairly wide spread mainstream DAW.


----------



## Zero&One

star.keys said:


> I agree, it would be helpful to have Cubase templates. That's fairly wide spread mainstream DAW.



Well volunteered, thanks


----------



## marcodistefano

James H said:


> Well volunteered, thanks


Hey guys, do you know FLOW Orchestral Template?
Is a ready to use orchestral template for cubase, lemur, and spitfire audio libraries using vienna ensemble.

and of course adding BBC is in the roadmap for the end of the year

Learn more about it here!









Artificial harmonics • Professional solutions for modern composers


Artificial harmonics provides smart and professional solutions for modern composers aiming at improving the composition workflow




marcodistefano.art





by purchasing the PRO version you can then keep it updated with the new added libraries with just an upgrade fee.

This is the rite of spring developed using FLOW


----------



## Denkii

marcodistefano said:


> by purchasing the PRO version you can then keep it updated with the new added libraries with just an upgrade fee.


I'm sorry but you have to work on your marketing text. If this is supposed to be a USP, it's horrible. It sounds as if paying premium allows you to pay even more down the road (and only if you already paid premium in the first place). I hope that's not what you meant. If it is like that, it would physically hurt me.


----------



## marcodistefano

Denkii said:


> I'm sorry but you have to work on your marketing text. If this is supposed to be a USP, it's horrible. It sounds as if paying premium allows you to pay even more down the road (and only if you already paid premium in the first place). I hope that's not what you meant. If it is like that, it would physically hurt me.



Probably I am a better composer and programmer than marketeer, but this is the consequence of being a one man activity 

The standard edition is a custom build I make which requires me some time to prepare, you can choose the libraries you want in the package and there is a fee to pay for the customization.

The Pro version is a bundled product with lower price and all libraries (about 40) because there is no customization to do. When I add minor libraries or fix things these are available as free downloads (you can see from the change log), but for bigger libraries like the BBC (which programming will take at least 1 month) a new version will be released and there will be an upgrade cost.

Also, I will propose a new product which will contain only the BBC library (or libraries as it seems there will be more).

Nothing exotic here, just the standard software lifecycle that any other software vendor applies (cubase, vienna ensemble pro...).

Thanks for the feedback and hope it clarifies,
Marco


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

Not to criticize your product, or the Logic templates by Spitfire. But I'm just curious..
Apart from being lazy, why would you buy a template with someone else deciding on your workflow, instead of just structuring it the way you like it yourself?

Am I missing something here, or is it just the hassle of creating the template? 
For me, that's part of the fun.


----------



## Zero&One

I find no fun in them 
Weirdly though, I can spend countless hours editing a 4 sec vocal. We are a funny breed


----------



## JoeHidden

From my point of view this only makes sense if a Cubase template or at least importable tracks are freely available. The whole idea of collaboration is based on the idea that everyone has the same basis. In fact, it doesn't matter who creates these tracks, but at the end you should download them from @Spitfire Team. In any other case it will be a mess again.

I really like the flow template of Marco, even though I personally prefer to use OSC, but for the support of the collaboration a commercial template makes hardly sense. It would be cool if Marco and other template builders would import the same tracks (Spitfire). Then we would have a common ground again.

Just my two cents / BR Joe


----------



## marcodistefano

Sjoerd Visser said:


> Not to criticize your product, or the Logic templates by Spitfire. But I'm just curious..
> Apart from being lazy, why would you buy a template with someone else deciding on your workflow, instead of just structuring it the way you like it yourself?
> 
> Am I missing something here, or is it just the hassle of creating the template?
> For me, that's part of the fun.



You can read what customers say about it here 








Flow 2 Professional Bundle - Best Deal! • Artificial harmonics


Save 75% with this bundle that contains all libraries! Flow Professional Bundle is the solution for modern composers who own multiple sound libraries. The bundle includes: License to activate Flow+ app in one machine Cubase Pro/Nuendo Template with generic remotes, presets and expression...




marcodistefano.art





FLOW is the result of one year of development and testing to build a template which can be used as a starting project for any orchestral score. It gives you access to all your libraries, articulations, mics, faders and VST attributes just using the lemur app.
If you would like to build something similar with all the 40 libraries integrated it will not take less than an year 
And believe me I am a composer and a software architecture at the same time...

Of course if you like to build it on your own is great and you can still watch the videos on my Youtube channel where I explain how I have built it, many people have used it as an inspiration.

Also is not about being lazy, just that to build an integrated orchestral template that makes Cubase, Vienna Ensemble Pro and Lemur seamlessly talk each other requires certain architectural skills that most composers do not have. And this is why FLOW exists 

Marco


----------



## marcodistefano

JoeHidden said:


> I really like the flow template of Marco, even though I personally prefer to use OSC, but for the support of the collaboration a commercial template makes hardly sense. It would be cool if Marco and other template builders would import the same tracks (Spitfire). Then we would have a common ground again.
> 
> Just my two cents / BR Joe



Hi Joe,
can you elaborate that sentence? what do you mean the same tracks?
In FLOW there is one cubase track for each of the instrument with all its articulations loaded and with expression maps setup.

Would like to understand more what you have in mind


----------



## Øivind

I am sure there will be loads of templates for every DAW available once BBCSO ships. 

I am going to make a non-keyswitch template in Cubendo soon. Meaning i won't use expression maps. I'll happily share the project file, as i am sure many otheres will as well, once we get BBCSO up and running.

But with some note-taking and pausing, you can within an hour or so, figure out how it's done and translate it to most other DAWs by wathcing this excellent video on Christians channel. Have a glass or cup of your favourite beverage ready and dive inn.



You can use LABS instruments as placeholders if you want to get started right away.


----------



## christianhenson

servandus said:


> I wonder if the vib/non vib crossfade is also available for the woodwinds (clarinets aside). It's mentioned in the video for the strings only, but it would also be appreciated for common woodwind pedals/pads/choral writting etc., and to allow more control on legato lines. The overall sound is fantastic, but I especially love the WWs.



I don't know if anyone has responded to this already but crossfade vibrato is something we're definitely underselling at the moment. Yes clarinets and all other instruments that "do" vibrato have this function (so not available on the marimba).


----------



## gussunkri

christianhenson said:


> I don't know if anyone has responded to this already but crossfade vibrato is something we're definitely underselling at the moment. Yes clarinets and all other instruments that "do" vibrato have this function (so not available on the marimba).


How did you deal with the tremolo on the vibraphone? I couldn't quite make out this from Paul's walkthrough. Was the motor on or off?


----------



## Zedcars

gussunkri said:


> How did you deal with the tremolo on the vibraphone? I couldn't quite make out this from Paul's walkthrough. Was the motor on or off?


I’d like to know this also.


----------



## Denkii

marcodistefano said:


> The standard edition is a custom build I make which requires me some time to prepare, you can choose the libraries you want in the package and there is a fee to pay for the customization.
> 
> The Pro version is a bundled product with lower price and all libraries (about 40) because there is no customization to do. When I add minor libraries or fix things these are available as free downloads (you can see from the change log), but for bigger libraries like the BBC (which programming will take at least 1 month) a new version will be released and there will be an upgrade cost.


So the PRO version actually ends up being the cheaper one because it's not customized?
Oh boy. I'm open for hire.


----------



## JoeHidden

marcodistefano said:


> Hi Joe,
> can you elaborate that sentence? what do you mean the same tracks?
> In FLOW there is one cubase track for each of the instrument with all its articulations loaded and with expression maps setup.
> 
> Would like to understand more what you have in mind



Hi Marco,

I meant the use of track archives in Cubase. If Spitfire provided a template or track archive, these tracks could be imported into various templates. No doubt that after the release of the library, templates will be available from different people. But than the interchangeability decreases again.

That's why I'm pleading for Spitfire to provide something.

BR Joe


----------



## marcodistefano

JoeHidden said:


> Hi Marco,
> 
> I meant the use of track archives in Cubase. If Spitfire provided a template or track archive, these tracks could be imported into various templates. No doubt that after the release of the library, templates will be available from different people. But than the interchangeability decreases again.
> 
> That's why I'm pleading for Spitfire to provide something.
> 
> BR Joe


I see, but building a template like FLOW requires more than just tracks, there are several settings on midi sends, generic remotes to configure, midi out, vst rack connected to hosts, not to talk about all the programming done in Vienna Ensemble with automation and programming in lemur 

of course it will be possible for two people having the same template to just share a cubase file and have everything working, not sure it might ever work between different templates produced by different persons though


----------



## ridgero

Oh yes, exploit the thread to market your own things.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

I'd like to address a few recent subjects that have come up:

The Bass Flute appearing in an Instagram post: This was a genuine error - when pictures are taken for marketing purposes we don't know at that stage exactly what was and wasn't going to in the initial product and that photo was pulled out of a batch of photos that hadn't been filtered. This was all by mistake, we did not mean to deceive.

Now this has raised the question of future paid-for expansions - this is not our intention and certainly not with material that has already been recorded. If we decided to go back into Maida Vale and record an entire choir, that could be a different story but for already recorded material that didn't make it into the initial product, this is excluded purely to get the product released on time, not so we can make you pay more later.

Are we abandoning other libraries? Absolutely not, you should be well convinced of that when you see what we have in store for you.

"Can you force the dynamics of short notes to be controlled by CC1/dynamics CC? You can do this in the Kontakt libraries but I haven't seen much of the new player to know." - Yes you can.

"I think it was answered but can we download just certain microphone positions such as the mixes? As great as the granularity is, I would rather just use the mix for portable work." - You will be able to download the separate sections (Strings, Brass, Winds, Percussion) individually but not the microphones. Once downloaded however, you can go into the samples folder and delete things you don't want (admittedly more arduous than being able to simply download the microphones you want).

Will we be porting all libraries to the new player? Not any time soon for sure - currently we're still RELEASING libraries on Kontakt let alone thinking about moving our entire back catalogue over from it.

"The library CAN still be DOWNLOADABLE, can't it?" Someone else already covered this but yes, it can. You can choose to download, get it on a standard HD or get it on an SSD. If you have it on an SSD you'll be able to go through the install process on the day of release (assuming you bought it in time) and be playing pretty much straight away.

As for speed of download on day of release, we use Amazon S3 which should scale with demand, so any bottleneck is more likely to be related to something local whether that be your children streaming netflix or your neighbour torrenting Game of Thrones. That said, we do sometimes have issues that we can resolve in our support department so if you are struggling, do get in touch.


----------



## Tilt & Flow

SpitfireSupport said:


> I'd like to address a few recent subjects that have come up:
> 
> Thank You!


----------



## IvanP

JoeHidden said:


> Hi Marco,
> 
> I meant the use of track archives in Cubase. If Spitfire provided a template or track archive, these tracks could be imported into various templates. No doubt that after the release of the library, templates will be available from different people. But than the interchangeability decreases again.
> 
> That's why I'm pleading for Spitfire to provide something.
> 
> BR Joe



Exactly! For interchangeability purposes, don't forget Cubase plz!!


----------



## Zero&One

I love how 1 accidental picture of a bass flute instantly meant paid DLC.

Even though SA commented on the same picture saying it wasn't so.


----------



## CT

James H said:


> I love how 1 accidental picture of a bass flute instantly meant paid DLC.
> 
> Even though SA commented on the same picture saying it wasn't so.



You're just a fanboy!


----------



## Zero&One

miket said:


> You're just a fanboy!



I prefer the term Hive Minded thank you


----------



## dzilizzi

I'm very happy they aren't planning on paid updates. I seem to remember saying paid extensions to the library, which technically isn't the same, were understandable. I am very happy to hear extra instruments will be added at a later date


----------



## oboemaroni

So the bass flute was sampled but won't ever be a part of the library? That seems a shame...


----------



## oboemaroni

dzilizzi said:


> I'm very happy they aren't planning on paid updates. I seem to remember saying paid extensions to the library, which technically isn't the same, were understandable. I am very happy to hear extra instruments will be added at a later date


Oh wait, maybe I misunderstood, it might be added for free?


----------



## Zero&One

oboemaroni said:


> Oh wait, maybe I misunderstood, it might be added for free?



Yeah it sounds like there's future free instrument(s) as this is the initial release. Sounds exciting!


----------



## Noeticus

Dear Spitfire,

Please clarify if and when, and how, we can get the Bass Flute.


----------



## Alex Fraser

James H said:


> Yeah it sounds like there's future free instrument(s) as this is the initial release. Sounds exciting!


So the library will grow with free updates? That’s next level stuff. Just wow.

FWIW, IMO Spitfire would have been well within their rights to offer extra chargeable stuff. Classy move.


----------



## cqd

Did they clarify this?..knew it..definitely a choir in march too..


----------



## jamwerks

Alex Fraser said:


> So the library will grow with free updates? That’s next level stuff. Just wow.


?? That's not how I read the SF post...


----------



## Alex Fraser

cqd said:


> Did they clarify this?..knew it..definitely a choir in march too..


Well, there’s a BBC choir based at Maida Vale..


----------



## Zero&One

jamwerks said:


> ?? That's not how I read the SF post...



"but for already recorded material that didn't make it into the initial product, this is excluded purely to get the product released on time, not so we can make you pay more later"


----------



## Noeticus

The Hive Mind is buzzing with uncertainty, possibly because the Spitfire clarification is a bit unclear.

Bzzzz, Bzzzz.


----------



## oboemaroni

I think spitfire's comms ppl might want to clarify their statement before the idea of bbcso as a constantly expanding single-fee library-to-end-all-libraries takes root.


----------



## Alex Fraser

My reading: All the instruments have been recorded but not all have been edited and prepped for release. So, to meet a release window, Spitfire are releasing the instruments that are ready and the remaining will be finished and added as (free) updates.

That about right?


----------



## jamwerks

They've said from the start, "This is just the beginning". Not sure how this statement fits in :_Now this has raised the question of future paid-for expansions - this is not our intention and certainly not with material that has already been recorded._


----------



## Noeticus

And now, the Hive and its Mind present their uncertainty with this...


----------



## Jdiggity1

Alex Fraser said:


> My reading: All the instruments have been recorded but not all have been edited and prepped for release. So, to meet a release window, Spitfire are releasing the instruments that are ready and the remaining will be finished and added as (free) updates.
> 
> That about right?


I think you're bang on.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Alex Fraser said:


> My reading: All the instruments have been recorded but not all have been edited and prepped for release. So, to meet a release window, Spitfire are releasing the instruments that are ready and the remaining will be finished and added as (free) updates.
> 
> That about right?



I am talking about a few things that didn't make the initial release, I'm not talking about a huge number of instruments or features here.


----------



## Daniel James

SpitfireSupport said:


> I am talking about a few things that didn't make the initial release, I'm not talking about a huge number of instruments or features here.



So will we be getting free content updates for the library down the road? Like the bass flute for example? (fingers crossed)

-DJ


----------



## cqd

That was always going to be the case..especially with the BBC involved..

I'm expecting to get the BBC iplayer working in Ireland as well after spending 700 bloody quid on this..


----------



## Geoff Grace

Noeticus said:


> Please clarify if and when, and how, we can get the Bass Flute.


Here you go:

Bass Flute

Available now. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Zedcars

"...in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and Spitfire releases."


----------



## Alex Fraser

SpitfireSupport said:


> I am talking about a few things that didn't make the initial release, I'm not talking about a huge number of instruments or features here.


You mean that there aren't pan flutes, a piano, buckets, taikos and a complete drum kit incoming for free? <cancels preorder> 

Kind of what I expected. Still classy. Thanks for clarifying!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Daniel James said:


> So will we be getting free content updates for the library down the road? Like the bass flute for example? (fingers crossed)
> 
> -DJ


I think that's what support were suggesting. The bass flute looks to be incoming later (as a free update) with perhaps a couple of other treats that weren't ready for initial release. But not a rolling monthly bonanza of free instruments.


----------



## Noeticus

I have seen butter have more clarity. But, then I was eating lobster at the time.

Listen... Holst's NEPTUNE has the Bass Flute, so I just gotta have the Bass Flute!


----------



## CT

It's actually an alto flute part, erroneously listed as bass flute. Holst probably mislabeled it in his template.


----------



## Zedcars

Noeticus said:


> I have seen butter have more clarity. But, then I was eating lobster at the time.
> 
> Listen... Holst's NEPTUNE has the Bass Flute, so I just gotta have the Bass Flute!


It also has a bass oboe and a female choir in an adjoining room. Could we ask Santa for those too?


----------



## Zedcars

miket said:


> It's actually an alto flute part, erroneously listed as bass flute. Holst probably mislabeled it in his template.


Interesting. Did not know that. Just looking at the score now.

Edit: Seems to be to do with old terminology, according to Wikipedia:
Prior to the mid-20th century, the term "bass flute" was sometimes used, especially in Great Britain, to refer to the alto flute instead (for example: the part for "bass flute in G" in Gustav Holst's The Planets).


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Alex Fraser said:


> I think that's what support were suggesting. The bass flute looks to be incoming later (as a free update) with perhaps a couple of other treats that weren't ready for initial release. But not a rolling monthly bonanza of free instruments.



That's pretty much exactly it. What I don't have for you today are dates.


----------



## Noeticus

Dear Spitfire,

Please, also record the BBC Choir with them in an adjoining room, ah, with the door left open.

(However, a IR of another room would be acceptable).


----------



## Noeticus

miket said:


> It's actually an alto flute part, erroneously listed as bass flute. Holst probably mislabeled it in his template.



Thanks for this!


----------



## BassClef

Today's info from Spitfire Support confirms what I have been saying since day one. I took Christian and Paul at their word as they have so heavily emphasized sharing and collaboration. And to me that meant that future instruments, articulations, player features, etc... would have to remain part of the same package...not upgrades to be purchased.


----------



## Architekton

BBC choir would be amazing to have as well, be it free update or paid product!!!


----------



## jamwerks

BassClef said:


> Today's info from Spitfire Support confirms what I have been saying since day one. I took Christian and Paul at their word as they have so heavily emphasized sharing and collaboration. And to me that meant that future instruments, articulations, player features, etc... would have to remain part of the same package...not upgrades to be purchased.


You take them for what words? As is the package is extremely generous. They've never infered free stuff was coming.


----------



## Pablocrespo

christianhenson said:


> I don't know if anyone has responded to this already but crossfade vibrato is something we're definitely underselling at the moment. Yes clarinets and all other instruments that "do" vibrato have this function (so not available on the marimba).



Christian please oversell this! Just a simple video with a very simple and lyricial melody going from non vib to molto vib slowly. 

This is one hard nut to crack in sampling. Would like to see how bbcso handles this!!


----------



## cqd

BassClef said:


> Today's info from Spitfire Support confirms what I have been saying since day one. I took Christian and Paul at their word as they have so heavily emphasized sharing and collaboration. And to me that meant that future instruments, articulations, player features, etc... would have to remain part of the same package...not upgrades to be purchased.



Exactly..


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Architekton said:


> BBC choir would be amazing to have as well, be it free update or paid product!!!



Hold on, hold on, that was just an example!


----------



## Bluemount Score

James H said:


> Yeah it sounds like there's future free instrument(s) as this is the initial release. Sounds exciting!


Maybe we get a free choir, piano and harpsichord as well at a later point! Not to mention the legendary concert kazoo! I'm so excited!

Honestly, though... ^^
But I still missed the piccolo in the walktrough.


----------



## Daniel James

SpitfireSupport said:


> Hold on, hold on, that was just an example!



Haha, Ok so to be _crystal_ clear can we please have a clear answer on the following? 

A. The instruments that were already recorded but are not currently included due to time restraints will be released later as a free update? (ie the infamous bass flute). 

B. If they are already recorded, can we please have the list of what the extra instruments are so we can get excited knowing what else we already have to look forward too at the buy in price...as it will actually make the buy in price feel like it has even more value!

C. Will there be paid for expansions coming down the line of instruments that are not already recorded ie Choir?

-DJ


----------



## cqd

Ah Jesus, you'll ruin it.. just wait to be pleasantly surprised..


----------



## staypuft

Daniel James said:


> Haha, Ok so to be _crystal_ clear can we please have a clear answer on the following?
> 
> A. The instruments that were already recorded but are not currently included due to time restraints will be released later as a free update? (ie the infamous bass flute).
> 
> B. If they are already recorded, can we please have the list of what the extra instruments are so we can get excited knowing what else we already have to look forward too at the buy in price...as it will actually make the buy in price feel like it has even more value!
> 
> C. Will there be paid for expansions coming down the line of instruments that are not already recorded ie Choir?
> 
> -DJ









They already answered all your questions, like LITERALLY answered every single one of your questions before. Several times.

A. FREE YES
B. INTERNAL
C. "IF" THEY RETURN TO THE MAIDA VALE: NEW BATCH OF RECORDINGS: PAID EXPANSION

At this point it seems you are trolling or exploiting the thread to have your little show like you did with HZS and Labs. Either way, it's annoying as fuck.


----------



## Daniel James

SpitfireSupport said:


> I am talking about a few things that didn't make the initial release, I'm not talking about a huge number of instruments or features here.





SpitfireSupport said:


> That's pretty much exactly it. What I don't have for you today are dates.





SpitfireSupport said:


> Hold on, hold on, that was just an example!



I just wanted clear answer if one was going. 'Pretty much' is close but I just wanted to know what extras were on the horizon, if they were happy to share. Its ok if not, am just as excited as everyone else for new things.



staypuft said:


> At this point it seems you are trolling or exploiting the thread to have your little show like you did with HZS and Labs. Either way, it's annoying as fuck.



Calm down, I wasn't asking you, I was asking _them_ as politely as I can. Thats as un-trolling as I can be while asking a question I wanted *clarifying* if they were willing to do so.

-DJ


----------



## gussunkri

I've watched Paul's walkthrough three times already. It's a new record. I know I asked for a video going over the mic positions in greater detail, and I am happy that one is coming, but I feel like Paul's walkthrough already sells the advantage of the various positions quite well. The orchestra sounds very different through the various mics it seems.


----------



## Portland

Thanks, Spitfire! You guys are awesome.


----------



## NoamL

Let whatever they release free-or-paid be a PLEASANT SURPRISE! 

Here are some woodwind comparisons.






Of course what this doesn't compare is price - Berlin Woodwinds alone is barely $40 cheaper right now than the entire BBCSO, strings brass winds perc the whole thing.

If you look at *John Williams* scores... he very often calls for woodwinds in 3s... because they are session musicians he doesn't just stick to the conservative standard lineup either, he can also ask them to do cool extensive doublings, for example there are a few cues in _*Harry Potter*_ where all three flutes are playing alto, or all three clarinetists are playing their Eb & Bb contra (!) clarinets. But I don't remember any cues I've seen where he calls for bass flute, bass oboe/heckelphone, or anything else rare like that. Maybe a woodwind player can offer more correct information, but from what I'm able to figure out, the following instruments are considered "standard" studio auxiliaries now i.e. you can safely call for a2 or even a3 because pro musicians will have this instrument in their arsenal - alto flute, piccolo, Eb clar, bass clarinet. The contrabassoon by itself seems like a special case - I think most bassoonists do not double it regularly? Could be wrong there.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

NoamL said:


> Let whatever they release free-or-paid be a PLEASANT SURPRISE!
> 
> Here are some woodwind comparisons. Of course what this doesn't compare is PRICE - Berlin Woodwinds alone is barely $40 cheaper right now than the entire BBCSO, strings brass winds perc the whole thing.
> 
> View attachment 22729



Yep. And if BBC was $100, certain people would still be bitching.


----------



## Daniel James

Wolfie2112 said:


> Yep. And if BBC was $100, certain people would still be bitching.



I wouldn't, that would be a fucking bargain xD

-DJ


----------



## Alex Fraser

NoamL said:


> Of course what this doesn't compare is price - Berlin Woodwinds alone is barely $40 cheaper right now than the entire BBCSO, strings brass winds perc the whole thing.


Yep. It's really aggressive pricing against even Spitfire's own offerings. I do wonder what Spitfire's plans for SSO will be going forward - it suddenly looks a lot more pricey.


----------



## Zero&One

staypuft said:


> At this point it seems you are trolling or exploiting the thread to have your little show like you did with HZS and Labs. Either way, it's annoying as fuck.



Don't think that's called for. Can't people ask questions?
There's been several questions asked in this thread that are even on the official FAQ, but people aren't pouncing on them.


----------



## CT

NoamL said:


> I don't remember any cues I've seen where he calls for bass flute



There's some bass flute action in the deplorably underappreciated A.I. Artificial Intelligence! I rarely hear anyone mention that score, let alone with as much enthusiasm as I have for it. 

:dodgy:


----------



## Noeticus

To: Paul, Christian, and the entire Spitfire Audio Team.

Thank you so much for all your fantastic work on the BBCSO Library. The Library sounds exemplary and your efforts on it are greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Noeticus


----------



## ed buller

miket said:


> There's some bass flute action in the deplorably underappreciated A.I. Artificial Intelligence! I rarely hear anyone mention that score, let alone with as much enthusiasm as I have for it.
> 
> :dodgy:





bliss

e


----------



## staypuft

bass oboe 2:54


----------



## Jdiggity1

miket said:


> There's some bass flute action in the deplorably underappreciated A.I. Artificial Intelligence! I rarely hear anyone mention that score, let alone with as much enthusiasm as I have for it.
> 
> :dodgy:


Mecha World is my jam


----------



## lp59burst

Daniel James said:


> Haha, Ok so to be _crystal_ clear can we please have a clear answer on the following?
> 
> A. The instruments that were already recorded but are not currently included due to time restraints will be released later as a free update? (ie the infamous bass flute).
> 
> B. If they are already recorded, can we please have the list of what the extra instruments are so we can get excited knowing what else we already have to look forward too at the buy in price...as it will actually make the buy in price feel like it has even more value!
> 
> C. Will there be paid for expansions coming down the line of instruments that are not already recorded ie Choir?
> 
> -DJ


Can we get a list of your subsequent D, E, F, G, H, I, J... follow-on questions first please.


----------



## Daniel James

miket said:


> There's some bass flute action in the deplorably underappreciated A.I. Artificial Intelligence! I rarely hear anyone mention that score, let alone with as much enthusiasm as I have for it.
> 
> :dodgy:



This is the piece that gets me particularly hyped for a bass flute: 



-DJ


----------



## CT

Jdiggity1 said:


> Mecha World is my jam



_headbangs in 7/8_


----------



## Zedcars

Less than 30 days to go, and approaching the 4 week remaining mark...  






Free Online Countdown Timer for Christmas, vacation and other events







www.arewethere.yt


----------



## meradium

It's really fascinating to see how much hype can be created surrounding a product by carefully curating your messaging.

At the same time I'm grateful for those who already bought into this new toy to offer some real-world perspective once the library is released.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Daniel James said:


> This is the piece that gets me particularly hyped for a bass flute:
> 
> 
> 
> -DJ



Great legato!


----------



## styledelk

So how long until they release the first Spitfire LABS BBCSO variant? I imagine it's going to be before the full release. Maybe this is where they put the warps, EDNA, and EVO treatments.

And now I realize how badly I want there to be EVOs from these sessions.


----------



## Bluemount Score

styledelk said:


> So how long until they release the first Spitfire LABS BBCSO variant? I imagine it's going to be before the full release. Maybe this is where they put the warps, EDNA, and EVO treatments.


Did they ever announce a free LABS variant? Sounds a little too good to be true for me, or must otherwise be reduced to an absolute minimum. I might have missed something, but this seems pretty big if you ask me.


----------



## styledelk

Bluemount Score said:


> Did they ever announce a free LABS variant? Sounds a little too good to be true for me, or must otherwise be reduced to an absolute minimum. I might have missed something, but this seems pretty big if you ask me.



They haven't, but it seems pursuant to the overall mission. It's a fantastic "demo" marketing tool that will further drum up interest.


----------



## VinRice

I think this thread should be prorogued, I'm off to chat to the Queen...


----------



## Bluemount Score

styledelk said:


> They haven't, but it seems pursuant to the overall mission. It's a fantastic "demo" marketing tool that will further drum up interest.


Which is what would fit Spitfire's marketing quite well in my opinion, not meant in any negative way. LABS is already amazing how it is and I recommended it as a decent free starting point for new composers before. There is barely anything comparable out there, a great marketing tool indeed.


----------



## muk

Here are two short, unscientific audio files to give a bit of context on where the BBC SO strings are tone-wise. I've taken two snippets from Paul's walkthrough, and played the same notes with four other strings libraries. I did that for the violin 1 sustains, and the celli legato. I played each library individually, so not just copying midi data. Then tweaked articulations and midi data where necessary. I didn't go deep with tweaking. Only corrected the most glaring problems.

The violin 1 sustains are straightforward. It's just that one articulation. All the libraries I used are completely out of the box.

BBC SO (taken from Paul's walkthrough), Cinematic Studio Strings, Hollywood Strings, Spitfire Chamber Strings, Light and Sound Chamber Strings:





__





Box







app.box.com





The cello legato needed a bit more tweaking. Paul used a performance legato patch. The other libraries don't have that, so I manually chose the articulations I saw fit. So various articulations and keyswitching on the other libraries. Except for SCS, where I only used the performance legato patch. Again, the other libraries are completely out of the box.

Same order as with the violins one. BBC SO, CSS, HS, SCS, L&S CS:





__





Box







app.box.com


----------



## Zedcars

muk said:


> Here are two short, unscientific audio files to give a bit of context on where the BBC SO strings are tone-wise. I've taken two snippets from Paul's walkthrough, and played the same notes with four other strings libraries. I did that for the violin 1 sustains, and the celli legato. I played each library individually, so not just copying midi data. Then tweaked articulations and midi data where necessary. I didn't go deep with tweaking. Only corrected the most glaring problems.
> 
> The violin 1 sustains are straightforward. It's just that one articulation. All the library I used are completely out of the box.
> 
> BBC SO (taken from Paul's walkthrough), Cinematic Studio Strings, Hollywood Strings, Spitfire Chamber Strings, Light and Sound Chamber Strings:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> app.box.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The cello legato needed a bit more tweaking. Paul used a performance legato patch. The other libraries don't have that, so I manually chose the articulations I saw fit. So various articulations and keyswitching on the other libraries. Except for SCS, where I only used the performance legato patch. Again, the other libraries are completely out of the box.
> 
> Same order as with the violins one. BBC SO, CSS, HS, SCS, L&S CS:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> app.box.com


The comparison, for me, is slightly unfair in that a) there may (or may not) be more editing/tweaking to do to the strings before release day b) Paul was playing live so I don't think he was doing any keyswitching.

Going on just the sound in the comparison, CSS takes it, followed by SCS, then BBCSO. However, I still think it's too early to make that call definitively or fairly.

Thanks for taking the time to do that though. It will be interesting to see/hear comparitively on a more level playing field.


----------



## AllanH

muk said:


> Here are two short, unscientific audio files to give a bit of context on where the BBC SO strings are tone-wise. ...



Interesting, thank you for doing that. To me, it sounded as if the Hollywood Strings patch had little, if any, vibrato, whereas the others had plenty. 

The BBCSO will likely make life very difficult for other developers, as it sounds very good and is priced aggressively. Resistance if futile, I think.


----------



## Zero&One

Thanks for that muk. I spliced them up in Logic and I'm happy with my pre order 
I think considering it's (I assume) from the youtube audio and played in live whilst having the pressures of world scrutiny, it sounds mighty fine.

They all do to be fair, we are very lucky these days to have such dedicated and talented devs/musicians/staff.


----------



## muk

Zedcars said:


> The comparison, for me, is slightly unfair in that a) there may (or may not) be more editing/tweaking to do to the strings before release day b) Paul was playing live so I don't think he was doing any keyswitching.



Indeed. The only thing these comparisons can be used for is to get an idea of the sound. That's why I used all the other libs raw out of the box. Legato, performance, velocity response etc. can all still be tweaked. Thus, these can only be after the release. The overall sound of the library, however, that will not change. It can be tweaked with the mic mixes you set up. But the overall timbre of the strings and sound of the room will stay the same.
With well recorded material - as it is the case with all the libraries used here - the overall sound is a matter of taste, not of objective judgment. That's where I thought this quick and dirty comparison would come in handy.



AllanH said:


> To me, it sounded as if the Hollywood Strings patch had little, if any, vibrato, whereas the others had plenty.



That is true. For Hollywood Strings I used vibrato so that it roughly corresponded to velocity xfade. It's in the lower half of the scale mainly. In hindsight it would have been better to add more vibrato to match it more closely to the other libraries.


----------



## Noeticus

Golly gee, what a coincidence that "Orchestral Tools" is just now having a sale.


----------



## Fleer

Noeticus said:


> Golly gee, what a coincidence that "Orchestral Tools" is just now having a sale.


Yep, I think they try to sell a few libs before everyone gets Spitfire BBCSO.


----------



## gpax

Noeticus said:


> Golly gee, what a coincidence that "Orchestral Tools" is just now having a sale.


Might I suggest that the OT promotion is not juxtaposed (or in response) to Spitfire BBCSO in anyway? Specifically, Orchestral Tools is not having a sale: Native Instruments is, featuring the OT products to promote the NKS standard and NI hardware which supports that protocol. These things are generally planned months in advance, btw. Any competition here is being generated by the posts, the respective offerings by each developer simply a scheduling overlap.


----------



## Zedcars

gpax said:


> Might I suggest that the OT promotion is not juxtaposed (or in response) to Spitfire BBCSO in anyway? Specifically, Orchestral Tools is not having a sale: Native Instruments is, featuring the OT products to promote the NKS standard and NI hardware which supports that protocol. These things are generally planned months in advance, btw. Any competition here is being generated by the posts, the respective offerings by each developer simply a scheduling overlap.


Probably right. Although, there’s no certainty either way. But, their reasons here don’t really matter do they. If it helps generate more interest in OT then it’s good for them, and obviously good for customers too.


----------



## cqd

Ah, OT had a sale around this time last year too.. same format..


----------



## Noeticus

gpax said:


> Might I suggest that the OT promotion is not juxtaposed (or in response) to Spitfire BBCSO in anyway? Specifically, Orchestral Tools is not having a sale: Native Instruments is, featuring the OT products to promote the NKS standard and NI hardware which supports that protocol. These things are generally planned months in advance, btw. Any competition here is being generated by the posts, the respective offerings by each developer simply a scheduling overlap.



Yes, this could also be true. Thanks.


----------



## artomatic

Curios to know how many here preordered with SSD/HD...?


----------



## Zedcars

SSD here.


----------



## Tilt & Flow

artomatic said:


> Curios to know how many here preordered with SSD/HD...?


Yes, SSD


----------



## ridgero

Going to order tonight, SSD.


----------



## Zedcars

I’ve always wondered what the notated parts look like for orchestral sampling sessions. I would guess they would be musically mundane seeing as they are recording individual notes and transitions etc. But from a technical perspective I’d find it fascinating.

This blurry shot of the french horns parts seems to be legato transitions perhaps:


----------



## Ruffian Price

Cinesamples had some high-res photos of their sessions and the legato scores looked exactly as you'd imagine.


----------



## Zedcars

Ruffian Price said:


> Cinesamples had some high-res photos of their sessions and the legato scores looked exactly as you'd imagine.


Cool. Do you have a link? Wasn’t able to find it myself.


----------



## jononotbono

I’m not going to be able to cope if a Bass Flute gets released. It’s not on my newly printed Spectrotone chart.


----------



## redlester

artomatic said:


> Curios to know how many here preordered with SSD/HD...?



HD here. 
Over the next year or so I need to reorganise my sample drives so there was no point spending on the SSD for me.


----------



## Noeticus

And... The Bass Flute is not on this poster/chart either.


https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/665442-REG/Vienna_Symphonic_Library_VSLPOST_Range_Poster_Orchestral.html


----------



## PerryD

redlester said:


> HD here.
> Over the next year or so I need to reorganise my sample drives so there was no point spending on the SSD for me.


 Was the HD option less expensive than the SSD?


----------



## Denkii

jononotbono said:


> I’m not going to be able to cope if a Bass Flute gets released. It’s not on my newly printed Spectrotone chart.


What format did you print it?
It looks bigger than 16x24 and I'm trying to figure out if it would still look ok if I get a bigger version.


----------



## Noeticus

PerryD said:


> Was the HD option less expensive than the SSD?



I think the HDD option is $99.


----------



## redlester

Noeticus said:


> I think the HDD option is $99.



That sounds about right. Can’t check right now but it was about £75 GBP I think. A price I could just about justify to avoid having a 600gb download.


----------



## Gingerbread

Denkii said:


> What format did you print it?
> It looks bigger than 16x24 and I'm trying to figure out if it would still look ok if I get a bigger version.


I had mine printed at 24 x 32 (the largest size offered by Staples), and it's sharp as a tack. No fuzziness at all. I highly recommend this size.


----------



## Denkii

Gingerbread said:


> I had mine printed at 24 x 32 (the largest size offered by Staples), and it's sharp as a tack. No fuzziness at all. I highly recommend this size.


Thank you so much!
I'll try that out.
Sorry for my off topic post but I couldn't resist.


----------



## synthetic

Buying a 2TB SSD and downloading. Hopefully. If all else fails, my wife works for NASA/Caltech and they have pretty good internet.


----------



## Fleer

Sure hope they do. If they don’t, we’re lost.


----------



## Lady Gaia

They’ve already said it’s backed by Amazon S3, so bandwidth should be the least of their worries. Much larger companies rely on the same hosting service to host and deliver huge volumes of data to customers.

I’m still torn whether to order the 1TB drive, or pick up a 2TB of my own and do the download over my residential “business class” service. I routinely download 50+ GB packages, but 600GB is no joke.


----------



## Fleer

True, would love that SSD too, but it’s an additional expense.


----------



## EwigWanderer

I still don’t know should I get this or not. I have a day job so I can provide food to my family and two under two years old baby’s makes my days too busy. It’s been over a year since I opened Cubase 😐

I used to write music regularly and also get money for it but not enough to pay my bills.

If this honestly would be a library that I can load up and trust that all the instruments will sound correctly in their own place in the sound field and that I wouldn’t have to spend hours in the mixer page...this might then be what I have looked for ages.

I own many libraries including Berlin Strings and BWW and I thought they would sound good together but no. Maybe with the new version of BWW but I’m done spending more money on woodwinds.

@christianhenson will you give me your word that I can just load up some instruments and start writing instead of tweaking the sound so they will sound correctly on their natural places in the hall? 😉


----------



## TomislavEP

styledelk said:


> So how long until they release the first Spitfire LABS BBCSO variant? I imagine it's going to be before the full release. Maybe this is where they put the warps, EDNA, and EVO treatments.
> 
> And now I realize how badly I want there to be EVOs from these sessions.



I sure hope they'll release some kind of Labs variant of BBCSO so I can at least have a souvenir as I doubt I'll be purchasing the library even in the long run. First of all, the price is too hefty for me and I've never really liked working with the traditional orchestral libraries. Tools like Albion series seem to fit my personal workflow much better, probably also due to the fact I'm not classically trained. So even if by chance I somehow be able to afford myself a copy of BBCSO, I'm not sure would I've be inspired while working with it, despite its unquestionable sound quality and comprehensiveness.

BTW, I agree with the thought that the Labs program is the ultimate demo tool for Spitfire, but I also think that these products have such quality that they should also be considered as the valuable addition to every composer's toolkit, not only for those who're just starting out building their arsenal.


----------



## Loïc D

TomislavEP said:


> Tools like Albion series seem to fit my personal workflow much better, probably also due to the fact I'm not classically trained


That’s funny because I switched from ensemble libraries to “full” orchestral ones not so long ago and after feeling overwhelmed first, I find my much more creative and inspired. I can pretty much try anything with any instrument and see how it sounds.
(I’m half-baked classical trained)


----------



## Alex Fraser

EwigWanderer said:


> I still don’t know should I get this or not. I have a day job so I can provide food to my family and two under two years old baby’s makes my days too busy. It’s been over a year since I opened Cubase 😐


Haha, I feel you there. My participation in this thread has been fuelled by evenings pacing the house, baby in one arm, phone and VIC in the other. It's proved to be the ideal time killer. 



LowweeK said:


> (I’m half-baked classical trained)


That's how I'd describe myself too. I'll remember that term for future reference..


----------



## TomislavEP

LowweeK said:


> That’s funny because I switched from ensemble libraries to “full” orchestral ones not so long ago and after feeling overwhelmed first, I find my much more creative and inspired. I can pretty much try anything with any instrument and see how it sounds.
> (I’m half-baked classical trained)



I see what you mean. But for me personally tools like Albion are more inspiring to work with, not only due to my lack of classical training but even more so due to the fact I've discovered over time I'm actually much more interested in creating music that feature certain orchestral elements rather than doing precise and "realistic" orchestral pieces. I also like the additional features outside the orchestral scope included in the libraries such as Albion and also the certain modular approach they provide (I have Legacy, Loegria and Tundra in my collection and can combine different elements from each of them). But there is no doubt that BBCSO sound gorgeous so maybe this fact alone would motivate me if my financial situation was / would be a bit different.


----------



## PerryD

I have ordered BBCSO and am excited for the release. Please excuse (or ignore) the following 90 seconds of loving parody. caution: involves sleighbell dry humor.


----------



## Bluemount Score

PerryD said:


> I have ordered BBCSO and am excited for the release. Please excuse (or ignore) the following 90 seconds of loving parody. caution: involves sleighbell dry humor.



I... can't even xD

EDIT: Where can I buy?


----------



## Loïc D

Alex Fraser said:


> That's how I'd describe myself too. I'll remember that term for future reference..


You're welcome. 

_(I've learned piano for 7 years for the sake of being able to play accurately piano pieces
I've learned theory for 8 years for the sake of sight reading in 5 keys, chords dictations, and tonal theory.
All this time, I had no clue what I was actually learning. Piano was disconnected from theory and vice versa. 
My musical creativity was not going beyond punk riffs on cheap guitar and major / minor triads on a cheap synth.
It's only years after that I self-studied & began to undertand composition and the link btw instruments & theory (don't laugh!).
I'm still learning of course, reading books, going to concerts, listening lots and having fun with samples.
Those sample libraries are a child dream come true to me.

Enough for personal things)_


----------



## rottoy

PerryD said:


> I have ordered BBCSO and am excited for the release. Please excuse (or ignore) the following 90 seconds of loving parody. caution: involves sleighbell dry humor.



The Spill microphone sold me on this. I'm weeping and whining with the audience!


----------



## Hadrondrift

PerryD said:


> 90 seconds of loving parody.


Those bells sound so realistic, Santa Claus just materialized next to my desk. »Ho, ho, ho!«, he shouted, »you'll never guess what I have in my bag for you, my friend.« - »A subscription for a premium christmas service?« - »Wrong«. Then he reached back into his sack, pulled out a long object and, with a friendly smile, gave it to me: A beautiful and shiny golden bass flute.

Only 28 days left for the accompanying instruments.


----------



## RogiervG

PerryD said:


> I have ordered BBCSO and am excited for the release. Please excuse (or ignore) the following 90 seconds of loving parody. caution: involves sleighbell dry humor.




Damn.. no cowbell, no BBCSO....


----------



## Zedcars

PerryD said:


> I have ordered BBCSO and am excited for the release. Please excuse (or ignore) the following 90 seconds of loving parody. caution: involves sleighbell dry humor.



Very nice work indeed. I think Spitfire should give you a job in marketing. I think you’ve just given them another 10,000 sales at least.


----------



## gtrwll

I'm pretty certain that the best marketing stunt at this point would be that Spitfire released the BBCSO sleigh bells as a LABS freebie.

I'm also ordering a blank SSD and downloading the library. Should be done overnight, if the servers truly scale up.


----------



## Ruffian Price

Honestly I just want the Spitfire-branded enclosure. I'm the worst.


----------



## Tilt & Flow

Ruffian Price said:


> Honestly I just want the Spitfire-branded enclosure. I'm the worst.


Sadly, I feel the same way :/


----------



## CT

I'd be getting it too, if I had USB 3 on my iMac. Alas.


----------



## GingerMaestro

Samsung 2TB SSD are only $279 on Amazon/B&H at the moment, it seems much more cost effective and useful to buy one of these and figure out the download. Are there internet shops with very fast internet where you could go for a couple of hours to download ?


----------



## Tilt & Flow

GingerMaestro said:


> Samsung 2TB SSD are only $279 on Amazon/B&H at the moment, it seems much more cost effective and useful to buy one of these and figure out the download. Are there internet shops with very fast internet where you could go for a couple of hours to download ?


Of course that’s the most practical solution, but does it have the spitfire branding? Noooo....


----------



## Zero&One

GingerMaestro said:


> Are there internet shops with very fast internet where you could go for a couple of hours to download ?



If I used an internet cafe close by to download, I would be medically 89% coffee by the time it downloaded.
So it's an SSD for me.


----------



## Fleer

Spitfire coffee







spitfirecoffee.com


----------



## Rey

Lady Gaia said:


> They’ve already said it’s backed by Amazon S3, so bandwidth should be the least of their worries. Much larger companies rely on the same hosting service to host and deliver huge volumes of data to customers.
> 
> I’m still torn whether to order the 1TB drive, or pick up a 2TB of my own and do the download over my residential “business class” service. I routinely download 50+ GB packages, but 600GB is no joke.


I have never downloaded anything the size of 600gb in my life before


----------



## Bluemount Score

Sorry if this was answered before, but is the Spitfire SSD just a common (branded) SSD on which you can load and delete whatever you want? Or is BBSCO a fixed software?


----------



## Jdiggity1

Bluemount Score said:


> Sorry if this was answered before, but is the Spitfire SSD just a common (branded) SSD on which you can load and delete whatever you want? Or is BBSCO a fixed software?


It's a 1TB Samsung 860 Evo drive that you can use like any other drive you connect to your computer.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Jdiggity1 said:


> It's a 1TB Samsung 860 Evo drive that you can use like any other drive you connect to your computer.



That's right - it'll have a folder on it called "Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra" and inside that will be thousands of .part files. Once the product is released you'll be able to load the Spitfire App, choose to install the library and point it at the folder. This will download and install the plugin, download the encrypted patches and presets and convert all the .part files to sample files and then it'll be ready to use.

Other than the data on the drive, it's an SSD like any other as you say.


----------



## Hadrondrift

SpitfireSupport said:


> it's an SSD like any other


So it doesn't come inside a case with an USB controller? That is, I additionally would need one of those (inexpensive) external cases or otherwise have to connect the SSD directly to a free SATA III port inside my computer?


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Hadrondrift said:


> So it doesn't come inside a case with an USB controller? That is, I additionally would need one of those (inexpensive) external cases or otherwise have to connect the SSD directly to a free SATA III port inside my computer?



Sorry, I wasn't clear. Yes it comes inside a Spitfire branded enclosure which has a USB C (female) connector on it and a USB C to USB A cable comes with it.


----------



## madfloyd

I own many Spitfire libraries but don't think I've ever pre-ordered before. Can someone tel me whether your credit card is charged immediately or later (e.g. upon shipping/release)?

Thanks!


----------



## erikradbo

Wooo, almost 150 pages, don't think I've read them all so might repeat what others has said.

I picture how the marketing team at SA sat down and tried to figure out a new angle to stand out in a crowded market. The "universal starting point" which translates to "a sample library for everyone" is pretty smart. Not really One Library to Rule Them All which was the aim of Hollywood Orchestra when it came out, but rather One Library that's in Every House. They're not trying to make exclusive Danish furniture, but rather to become the IKEA of sampling libraries (Affordable but high quality Swedish furniture, that everyone has and recognizes). The result seems to be really good judging by the demos, and - of course - affordable. Also there are hints that there is more to come, which gives me the fear of being left out if I don't get it.

In summary a very affordable, high quality - it seems - library with everything you need to get started making orchestral music, and to make it more relatable Spitfire is back here on the forum (they were gone for a couple of years, no?) to emphasize the mentioned approachability. They also help out with things such as templates to make the transition into using it easier.

But, I don't get how it's more than that though? How will it become easier to collaborate? Is it when everyone has bought the library (in which case, any library will make collaboration easier, as long as everyone owns it), or are there special functions baked in?

I think it's brilliant idea and the marketing is very well done, hopefully the product will live up to the hype. I have everything I need, but I'm still very tempted.

Edit: Was hoping I was going to be the one breaking page 150. Very close, no?


----------



## SpitfireSupport

madfloyd said:


> I own many Spitfire libraries but don't think I've ever pre-ordered before. Can someone tel me whether your credit card is charged immediately or later (e.g. upon shipping/release)?
> 
> Thanks!



You'll be charged immediately (I'm afraid). That's mostly just down to the fact that we don't have a system set up that's capable of taking an order and then collecting the money later.


----------



## PerryD

madfloyd said:


> I own many Spitfire libraries but don't think I've ever pre-ordered before. Can someone tel me whether your credit card is charged immediately or later (e.g. upon shipping/release)?
> 
> Thanks!


 I pre-ordered yesterday and my card was indeed charged.


----------



## PerryD

It will be interesting to create something _entirely_ with this library. I of course have many libraries that I really like and will try to use along with BBCSO. I am not overly concerned with _absolutely_ matching the hall ambience of BBCSO. That being said, does anyone know of an IR that is available for that hall?


----------



## Zedcars

PerryD said:


> It will be interesting to create something _entirely_ with this library. I of course have many libraries that I really like and will try to use along with BBCSO. I am not overly concerned with _absolutely_ matching the hall ambience of BBCSO. That being said, does anyone know of an IR that is available for that hall?


I did a search a few weeks back and found nothing. Not to say it doesn’t exist though. I’ve said it before but I think there’d be a lot of interest in Spitfire recording some IRs for that space. It won’t be around much longer. Fingers crossed it’s at least being considered.


----------



## ridgero

SpitfireSupport said:


> Sorry, I wasn't clear. Yes it comes inside a Spitfire branded enclosure which has a USB C (female) connector on it and a USB C to USB A cable comes with it.



Thanks, very important fact! You should add this info on your FAQ! The USB connection hasn't been mentioned at all.

I pre-ordered it with the SSD one minute ago ))


----------



## Denkii

ridgero said:


> Thanks, very important fact! You should add this info on your FAQ! The USB connection hasn't been mentioned at all.
> 
> I pre-ordered it with the SSD one minute ago ))


It had. Admittedly easy to overlook between 150 pages of chocolate and hive mind.


----------



## Noeticus

Does anyone know the physical dimensions of the BBC Maida Vale Studios? 

If I have the dimensions I can ask the Audioease Altiverb folks what the closest IR match is.


----------



## ridgero

Denkii said:


> It had. Admittedly easy to overlook between 150 pages of chocolate and hive mind.



I mean on their website.


----------



## Zero&One

Hopefully this is footage from a future MV Studio 3 expansion pack:


----------



## cqd

Yeah, I pulled the trigger today too..I might unsubscribe from this thread now I think..


----------



## Jdiggity1

Luke at SFA just published a placement diagram to show how the BBCSO was recorded (https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002621377) :






Quite interesting to see how they utilize the space and the distance between the different microphone configurations


----------



## dzilizzi

cqd said:


> Yeah, I pulled the trigger today too..I might unsubscribe from this thread now I think..


But what will you do to keep you occupied until the library becomes available? And while it downloads?


----------



## cqd

dzilizzi said:


> But what will you do to keep you occupied until the library becomes available? And while it downloads?



I'll probably still check it 8 times a day..Just could do without 30 emails an hour..


----------



## CT

Jdiggity1 said:


> Luke at SFA just published a placement diagram to show how the BBCSO was recorded (https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002621377) :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quite interesting to see how they utilize the space and the distance between the different microphone configurations



This is awesome to have, for people like me who are really into these little details.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jdiggity1 said:


> Luke at SFA just published a placement diagram to show how the BBCSO was recorded (https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002621377) :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quite interesting to see how they utilize the space and the distance between the different microphone configurations


But where are the spill mics????? They are not listed!


----------



## dzilizzi

cqd said:


> I'll probably still check it 8 times a day..Just could do without 30 emails an hour..


Yeah, I need to get off the email train. I come here without it.


----------



## Zedcars

Jdiggity1 said:


> Luke at SFA just published a placement diagram to show how the BBCSO was recorded (https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002621377) :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quite interesting to see how they utilize the space and the distance between the different microphone configurations


Plenty of space on there for a piano, full choir and saxophone quartet (oh and bass flute).


----------



## Ruffian Price

Jdiggity1 said:


> Luke at SFA just published a placement diagram to show how the BBCSO was recorded (https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002621377) :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quite interesting to see how they utilize the space and the distance between the different microphone configurations


That's just wonderful, exactly what I wanted!


----------



## Lady Gaia

Rey said:


> I have never downloaded anything the size of 600gb in my life before



Thankfully, the entire library broken down into sections (as described earlier in the thread by Spitfire representatives), so you download the strings and start using them before downloading the woodwinds, etc. Just as importantly, the Spitfire Audio app downloads everything as a series of smaller chunks so a failure partway through won’t mean starting from scratch.

I expect it to be a relatively straightforward, if lengthy, process. Depending entirely on your Internet connection, of course. I routinely download ~50GB packages so I have some idea of what this should be like.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, I'm expecting it to take around a day..one more won't hurt


----------



## NoamL

Couldn't find any information on exact dimensions but SoundOnSound says that MV1 has a total floorspace of *756* square meters. If true that would be much larger than AIR (*300* sqm) or Trackdown (*440* sqm) or Teldex (*455* sqm) or MGM/SONY (*570* sqm)... and around the same size as the old Todd/AO (*720* sqm).

It's odd because the recordings in MV1 really feel fresh and direct to me, much less of the cinematic lushness/fogginess (depending on your view) of AIR Lyndhurst. I suppose the shape of the hall and the ceiling height also plays a role?


----------



## Paul Cardon

NoamL said:


> Couldn't find any information on exact dimensions but SoundOnSound says that MV1 has a total floorspace of *756* square meters. If true that would be much larger than AIR (*300* sqm) or Trackdown (*440* sqm) or Teldex (*455* sqm) or MGM/SONY (*570* sqm)... and around the same size as the old Todd/AO (*720* sqm).
> 
> It's odd because the recordings in MV1 really feel fresh and direct to me, much less of the cinematic lushness/fogginess (depending on your view) of AIR Lyndhurst. I suppose the shape of the hall and the ceiling height also plays a role?


While the floorspace in Lyndhurst measures in at 300 sqm, that's only talking about the center hexagon, ignoring the height and the balconies. Those are where all the tail comes from. MV1 is def much more akin to a standard scoring stage but with less height (and much less than Lyndhurst).


----------



## colony nofi

NoamL said:


> Couldn't find any information on exact dimensions but SoundOnSound says that MV1 has a total floorspace of *756* square meters. If true that would be much larger than AIR (*300* sqm) or Trackdown (*440* sqm) or Teldex (*455* sqm) or MGM/SONY (*570* sqm)... and around the same size as the old Todd/AO (*720* sqm).
> 
> It's odd because the recordings in MV1 really feel fresh and direct to me, much less of the cinematic lushness/fogginess (depending on your view) of AIR Lyndhurst. I suppose the shape of the hall and the ceiling height also plays a role?


Its not just shape and ceiling height. These two play a role, but there's many many parts to it.
Materials used play a massive role. Absorbancy vs reflectiveness. Acoustic interventions. (Various kinds of frequency trapping). Convex and Concave curves. Which is related to the principles of types of diffusion and how they are employed.

It is relatively straight forward to make a 5000cubic meter room have a 3 second RT60 or a 10 second RT60! Thats a massive difference in acoustic for the same volume.


----------



## Noeticus

NoamL said:


> Couldn't find any information on exact dimensions but SoundOnSound says that MV1 has a total floorspace of *756* square meters. If true that would be much larger than AIR (*300* sqm) or Trackdown (*440* sqm) or Teldex (*455* sqm) or MGM/SONY (*570* sqm)... and around the same size as the old Todd/AO (*720* sqm).
> 
> It's odd because the recordings in MV1 really feel fresh and direct to me, much less of the cinematic lushness/fogginess (depending on your view) of AIR Lyndhurst. I suppose the shape of the hall and the ceiling height also plays a role?




*756* square meters is about 8137 square feet.


----------



## Fleer

3000 and counting


----------



## Noeticus

3001.... hahahahahah


----------



## CT

The Final Odyssey....


----------



## cqd

3003..

Like the BEEB..except it's the BOOB..


----------



## NoamL

Never been to AIR but this photo really shows what a volume of space they have, together with the drop ceiling:


----------



## prodigalson

As you can see above, Lyndhursts characteristic tail comes from the concave arches as it was a church.


----------



## jamwerks

At MV, I wonder if they recorded as when they played there (as pictured, with the conductor mid-room, percussion against the wall, and the narrow sides as left and right). At Sony seems the conductor has his back against the wall (the opposite of the MV photo), and VSL has turned things around 90° at the Synchron stage and records with the widest sides left and right (again the opposite of the MV photo).

Looking forward to the announced BBC & reverb video!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Jdiggity1 said:


> Luke at SFA just published a placement diagram to show how the BBCSO was recorded (https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002621377) :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quite interesting to see how they utilize the space and the distance between the different microphone configurations


Interesting. Am I reading this right?
Balcony mics are basically super-far-mics? Sides can probably sound super-panned (for some sections)?
Where are the other mic positions, named in the articulation list?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Considering the emphasis on collaboration with this library - is anyone planning to share anything post release? Maps? Templates? DAW files?


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Bluemount Score said:


> Interesting. Am I reading this right?
> Balcony mics are basically super-far-mics? Sides can probably sound super-panned (for some sections)?
> Where are the other mic positions, named in the articulation list?


Some didn't make as much sense to include as their placement would change depending on the section. I made sure to include all of those that are in a set position though!

Luke


----------



## Bluemount Score

SpitfireSupport said:


> Some didn't make as much sense to include as their placement would change depending on the section. I made sure to include all of those that are in a set position though!
> 
> Luke


Alright, seems logical. Mic techniques are a really interesting topic for me right now and I can't wait to play around with BBCSO's options.


----------



## yellowtone

Alex Fraser said:


> Considering the emphasis on collaboration with this library - is anyone planning to share anything post release? Maps? Templates? DAW files?


I will happily share any and all questions, frustrations and enthusiasm. 🤪 But also happy to share learnings and templates if anyone would find them of value. I will have less than the desired RAM and processor power to run the full gamut so I’ll need to build a workflow that accommodates this. I’m hoping others in the same situation will be willing to share tips/tricks too.


----------



## CT

Alex Fraser said:


> Considering the emphasis on collaboration with this library - is anyone planning to share anything post release? Maps? Templates? DAW files?



I've got a long list of unrealized symphonic pieces that will finally come to life thanks to this. I'll definitely think about sharing project files, etc., so people can see exactly how not to use BBCSO.


----------



## PerryD

PerryD said:


> I have ordered BBCSO and am excited for the release. Please excuse (or ignore) the following 90 seconds of loving parody. caution: involves sleighbell dry humor.



Ha! I'll have to redo this with BBCSO. It uses most of what I currently have.


----------



## Zedcars

PerryD said:


> Ha! I'll have to redo this with BBCSO. It uses most of what I currently have.



Cool. Would have liked much more rall at the end, but was pretty good. Nice bright trumpet tone.


----------



## Zedcars

The following is the BBC Symphony Orchestra rehearsing Ravel’s Bolero at Maida Vale Studios, with commentary (2014).

The commentary was irritating me at first because I only wanted to hear the sound of the orchestra and the room. But, in the end I found the commentary very interesting. The piece is famous for his imaginative use of orchestral colours which shift as the piece progresses. It would be interesting to hear a mock-up of Bolero with this library to compare with the sound in the video.

The room provides a warm plume of reverb enveloping the orchestra but with a short decay which keeps the sound focused.


----------



## synthetic

Love the horn player checking Facebook at 3:15. You can see they all looovve playing this piece.


----------



## dzilizzi

synthetic said:


> Love the horn player checking Facebook at 3:15. You can see they all looovve playing this piece.


I noticed that. At least in practice they can do this. 

I was watching another YouTube of Bolero in an actual concert recently. I didn't realize it was so long. The version I saw was much shorter. I'm thinking it is not popular with the string players either as they spend most of the time plucking their instruments. Great piece though.


----------



## Zedcars

synthetic said:


> Love the horn player checking Facebook at 3:15. You can see they all looovve playing this piece.


I feel sorry for the poor snare player - he can’t even scratch his nose for 16 minutes! I wonder how many hours of practice he put in - I bet it takes a lot of concentration to play the same thing over and over.

I mean, it’s a hypnotic piece to listen to, but must be very uninteresting to play. That’s one of the things you are taught as a student of Orchestration - try to make the lines interesting for the performer. I guess Ravel can get away with it because, well he’s Ravel.


----------



## Fleer

Beats listening to Caroline Rae.


----------



## MaxOctane

Alex Fraser said:


> Considering the emphasis on collaboration with this library - is anyone planning to share anything post release? Maps? Templates? DAW files?



I don’t understand why Paul and Christian say this library is designed for collaboration (apart from being all-in-one?). Lots of us have SCS, or the Arks, or full SpitfireSymphonic Orch, and so on, and we could all be sharing templates and DAW files and all the rest but we aren’t.

I’m ALL for sharing files... I just mean there’s nothing so much more collaborative about this lib.


----------



## Alex Fraser

MaxOctane said:


> I don’t understand why Paul and Christian say this library is designed for collaboration (apart from being all-in-one?). Lots of us have SCS, or the Arks, or full SpitfireSymphonic Orch, and so on, and we could all be sharing templates and DAW files and all the rest but we aren’t.
> 
> I’m ALL for sharing files... I just mean there’s nothing so much more collaborative about this lib.


Well I guess everyone has different versions of Kontakt for starters, then there’s the full/player only thing. Maybe not an issue, haven’t thought it through. 

I think the idea is that DAW + stock plugins + BBCSO is an easy baseline to work with.


----------



## rudi

MaxOctane said:


> I don’t understand why Paul and Christian say this library is designed for collaboration (apart from being all-in-one?). Lots of us have SCS, or the Arks, or full SpitfireSymphonic Orch, and so on, and we could all be sharing templates and DAW files and all the rest but we aren’t.
> 
> I’m ALL for sharing files... I just mean there’s nothing so much more collaborative about this lib.


For a start it is a complete library, and it includes multiple mic positions. Secondly, it packs a lot at this price point. Thirdly, it has the imprimatur of the BBCSO - part of its design brief was to enable lots of musicians to take their first foray into orchestral music and composition.

The other issue is one based on simple maths and probabilty. I don't have any idea of how many composers have the exact same "base" set of libraries... but my guess is that because of the huge variety of libraries available to us, their varying degree of completeness, and price points the number of possible combinations is huge.

In my case I don't own any of the libraries you own. I have several Spitfire ones, a few entry level ones like Cinesymphony Lite, The Orchestra, a few Orchestral Tool woodwind extensions etc. I am sure there are probably lots of people with very different combinations.

Having a "standard" library with a good set of instruments and a large user base could work really well.
As Alex wrote it makes for an easy baseline.

Of course there is the issue of costs, and whether the sounds are to your (and mine) liking


----------



## AllanH

MaxOctane said:


> I don’t understand why Paul and Christian say this library is designed for collaboration (apart from being all-in-one?). Lots of us have SCS, or the Arks, or full SpitfireSymphonic Orch, and so on, and we could all be sharing templates and DAW files and all the rest but we aren’t. ...


There is certainly (imo) an element of Marketing Genius in making collaboration a key selling point. 

However, if I look at the "competition", I'd say that Hollywood Orchestra is missing ensemble woodwinds, 8DIO Century is missing woodwinds and percussion, Cinematic Studio is missing woodwinds and percussion, OT Berlin is complete but expensive etc. If Spitfire continues to drive sharing and education as part of the BBCSO release, they will be very difficult to compete with. 

On top of all of that, the early demos seem to indicate a very-good-sounding symphonic orchestra.


----------



## Zero&One

The all-in-one part is the heart of it. So saying apart from that removes the whole concept 

EWHO has the same (ish) content/price. But the player is a massive no go for many folk. Shame.
I do agree though to an extent, only time will tell if the sharing aspect comes off. And that relies 100% on us *gulp*.


----------



## Fysik

James H said:


> [...] But the player is a massive no go for many folk. [...]



I actually feel the same for BBCSO. While the interface looks much better and approachable to me, I have a hard time liking to work with it (at least from the work I have to do with LABS).
But that's probably because - like many others here - I hate change. Change that gets me away from Kontakt.


----------



## BassClef

synthetic said:


> Love the horn player checking Facebook at 3:15. You can see they all looovve playing this piece.



...former Horn player here... before cell phones... sometimes exciting and sometimes boring for sure!


----------



## christianhenson

Here's something for ya!


----------



## Sovereign

The solo cello appears to sound awesome as well, sound has a very nice character. And the brass, just excellent IMO. Can't wait.


----------



## TGV

That *does* sound good. (The solo cello's sul tasto was indeed an ear opener).

Must. Constrain. Self!


----------



## JoeHidden

MaxOctane said:


> I don’t understand why Paul and Christian say this library is designed for collaboration (apart from being all-in-one?). Lots of us have SCS, or the Arks, or full SpitfireSymphonic Orch, and so on, and we could all be sharing templates and DAW files and all the rest but we aren’t.
> 
> I’m ALL for sharing files... I just mean there’s nothing so much more collaborative about this lib.



Well, it's a full orcherster at an affordable price. A good opportunity for students and hobbyists. 

Just my two cents.


----------



## ridgero

christianhenson said:


> Here's something for ya!





Oh dear, I‘have to admit I really like the sound of those Spill mics. Jake‘s mix is perfect as a starting point.


----------



## Alex Fraser

This is looking like an incredible library that should scale from laptops to full on power rigs. Loving the sound of the room, so much flexibility. 

Clever folks, that Spitfire lot.


----------



## Bluemount Score

ridgero said:


> Oh dear, I‘have to admit I really like the sound of those Spill mics. Jake‘s mix is perfect as a starting point.


I agree! I found the leader mic very cool as well and how the solo chello stood out of the ensemble.
The more I hear about this library, the more I like it.


----------



## Zedcars




----------



## jamwerks

Sounds awesom ! So many sonic combo's to choose from.


----------



## meradium

If this is really as nice as it appears to be, makes me wonder why I spend so much money on all their other (also) recent libraries?


----------



## RogiervG

awaiting the legato video... because legato's are very much important for e.g. woods and strings.


----------



## vdk-john

JoeHidden said:


> Well, it's a full orcherster at an affordable price. A good opportunity for students and hobbyists.
> 
> Just my two cents.



If I remember correctly there are also licensing limitations involved in sharing projects online that include kontakt libraries because of how the data is saved when saving the project? Can anyone confirm if this is the case?


----------



## Denkii

Does anyone know if the only option in the Spitfire Player to show the keyswitches for different articulations is on the bottom right tab via the equivalent key?
There is no way to add those keys so that the bottom keyboard shows where the keyswitches are? :(


----------



## jamwerks

Hope there will be something similare to the UACC + groups on the new player. The Synchron player did something similar with their "Tree". Don't know if it was mentioned in the video if we can assign mic faders to CC's?


----------



## dzilizzi

vdk-john said:


> If I remember correctly there are also licensing limitations involved in sharing projects online that include kontakt libraries because of how the data is saved when saving the project? Can anyone confirm if this is the case?


It's not Kontakt, so this isn't an issue.


----------



## vdk-john

dzilizzi said:


> It's not Kontakt, so this isn't an issue.



Sorry I was answering to the original question that asked how this allows collaboration more compared to other libraries. Replied from my phone so there was some context missing.

edit:
the original question was:


MaxOctane said:


> I don’t understand why Paul and Christian say this library is designed for collaboration (apart from being all-in-one?). Lots of us have SCS, or the Arks, or full SpitfireSymphonic Orch, and so on, and we could all be sharing templates and DAW files and all the rest but we aren’t.
> 
> I’m ALL for sharing files... I just mean there’s nothing so much more collaborative about this lib.



I'm still curious if someone could confirm licensing is a limitation when sharing project files that includes other libraries. Thanks


----------



## Karma

Denkii said:


> There is no way to add those keys so that the bottom keyboard shows where the keyswitches are? :(


These are shown, it is similar to Kontakt in that you may need to transpose the keyboard to see the lowest keyswitches. Of course you can move these yourself too!








jamwerks said:


> Hope there will be something similar to the UACC + groups on the new player.



Whilst there isn't currently UACC (as in a global CC32 value set for specific articulations), there's still plenty of ways to customize articulation switching:


----------



## Denkii

Karma said:


> These are shown, it is similar to Kontakt in that you may need to transpose the keyboard to see the lowest keyswitches. Of course you can move these yourself too!


Nice!
That's all I need. I get lost without visual representation


----------



## cqd

Hopefully this revision of the player will be more stable than the HZ version, and won't be deleting all the patches whenever it sees fit..


----------



## widekeys

Karma said:


> These are shown, it is similar to Kontakt in that you may need to transpose the keyboard to see the lowest keyswitches. Of course you can move these yourself too!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whilst there isn't currently UACC (as in a global CC32 value set for specific articulations), there's still plenty of ways to customize articulation switching:



Does "MIDI Channel" mean every articulation responds on a different channel? That would be very useful for cubas expressionmaps since the midi channel will be traced but keyswitches will not.


----------



## Zero&One

cqd said:


> Hopefully this revision of the player will be more stable than the HZ version, and won't be deleting all the patches whenever it sees fit..



Can't say I've come across this? Mine are all still there, in the player.

Is this a common thing happening to several users?


----------



## Tilt & Flow

James H said:


> Can't say I've come across this? Mine are all still there, in the player.
> 
> Is this a common thing happening to several users?


not a problem for me...


----------



## cqd

I've had it happen a couple of times..had to be reinstalled..


----------



## Karma

widekeys said:


> Does "MIDI Channel" mean every articulation responds on a different channel? That would be very useful for cubas expressionmaps since the midi channel will be traced but keyswitches will not.


Yup, that's exactly it! It's my preferred workflow too.

I believe for Expression Maps "CC Range" switching would perhaps be most useful, especially if you wanted to replicate UACC in some form:


----------



## christianhenson

vdk-john said:


> Sorry I was answering to the original question that asked how this allows collaboration more compared to other libraries. Replied from my phone so there was some context missing.
> 
> edit:
> the original question was:
> 
> 
> I'm still curious if someone could confirm licensing is a limitation when sharing project files that includes other libraries. Thanks



For me it is the single package POV and no need for a sample player. Aside from licensing issues with Kontakt, owning different versions of different iterations of libraries being used with presets being saved down from different versions of Kontakt is a major blocker. Having no sampler to consider eradicates this.

Just within the Spitfire catalogue if you wanted to share files you would need to own the following (all pro editions where appropriate to give you even a semblance of the same number of mics)

Symphonic strings
Symphonic woods
Symphonic brass
Solo strings
Skaila Kanga Harp
Joby Burgess percussion

Whilst I’m not allowed to tell you exactly how many people own that exact combo I know the exact number and on checking log files there is only a hand full of people who have this collection fully up to date... whether they’re on Kontakt 5+ well your guess is as good as mine.

Every time we update, you’ll need one update not 6 and the version of the sample player is immaterial. 

I have tried to collaborate with Paul, Homay and Oliver and we struggle even though we make these things! I’m about to start a job with Homay and I’ll just suggest we use BBCSO so there are no surprises.


----------



## synthetic

I would love a list of default keyswitches so I could get started on Expression Maps. Are the ones in the video final? Maybe I'll just try to peep those.


----------



## Alex Fraser

synthetic said:


> I would love a list of default keyswitches so I could get started on Expression Maps. Are the ones in the video final? Maybe I'll just try to peep those.


Good idea - I get the impression that the key switches are universally linked to the articulation style? So, legato is always C-1, Long C#-1 etc, and the same pattern follows across all instruments.
It would mean that whichever selection you choose from the articulation picker, the switches would remain consistent.

Grateful if anyone could confirm or elaborate.


----------



## AllanH

christianhenson said:


> Here's something for ya!
> ...



It sounds absolutely extraordinary! I had not really anticipated how much of a difference the various microphones make. The hall projects both a resonant and clear sonic image while staying vibrant. No rumble, mud or long messy tails. Quite a game changer, imo.

Everything seems to be coming together with this release - world class players, fantastic room (Maida Vale), and the talented Spitfire Team. 

I'm impressed.


----------



## AEF

the hall and mics are first class.l, extraordinarily convincing, and tons if flexibility for mixing.

but I’m not sure im sold on the samples themselves being any more realistic or an upgrade over SSS and SCS and SSB which I already own.


----------



## Fleer

I’m particularly sold on the way the Maida Vale venue and the numerous mics allow for a controlled sound with limited reverb, quite different from the libraries recorded in the Air church environment.


----------



## VinRice

christianhenson said:


> Whilst I’m not allowed to tell you exactly how many people own that exact combo I know the exact number and on checking log files there is only a hand full of people who have this collection fully up to date.



That would be me then...

So I get BBCSO for free right?


----------



## Noeticus

I assume I am not the only one here who does not need the BBCSO Library, but just has to have it!

In other words, I am addicted to quality symphonic VST libraries like they were a drug.


----------



## Fleer

If I understand the list of solo strings correctly there’s a solo violin (leader), solo violin 2 (leader), solo viola (leader) and solo bass (leader), yet no solo cello but rather celli (leader). Or would this be an accidentally plural noun? Is there indeed a solo cello? I’m an avid amateur of those.


----------



## Lady Gaia

Fleer said:


> If I understand the list of solo strings correctly there’s a solo violin (leader), solo violin 2 (leader), solo viola (leader) and solo bass (leader), yet no solo cello but rather celli (leader). Or would this be an accidentally plural noun? Is there indeed a solo cello? I’m an avid amateur of those.



I'm assuming it's the solo leader of the celli, just inconsistently named. All other group recordings have the number of members in the group listed in parenthesis, even for 2 or 3 as with the trumpets and trombones. Of course it would be ideal to have confirmation one way or another.


----------



## prodigalson

Noeticus said:


> I assume I am not the only one here who does not need the BBCSO Library, but just has to have it!
> 
> In other words, I am addicted to quality symphonic VST libraries like they were a drug.



A drug addiction would be cheaper


----------



## Noeticus

Cellos or Celli, same thing.


----------



## cqd

If you pre-order it now..by the time it comes out you won't have bought something in a month..by black Friday it will have been nearly 2 months.. you'll deserve something..


----------



## Fleer

Noeticus said:


> Cellos or Celli, same thing.


My point exactly. One cello, two celli 
Sure hope Lady Gaia is right.


----------



## synthetic

Spent the day building a new template snd keyswitches, based on the videos and articulation lists on their site. #getalife


----------



## Anders Wall

christianhenson said:


> I have tried to collaborate with Paul, Homay and Oliver and we struggle even though we make these things! I’m about to start a job with Homay and I’ll just suggest we use BBCSO so there are no surprises.


Funny thing, apparently all of the above are occupied with other things.
Might as well send me that copy...
/Anders


----------



## christianhenson

Lady Gaia said:


> I'm assuming it's the solo leader of the celli, just inconsistently named. All other group recordings have the number of members in the group listed in parenthesis, even for 2 or 3 as with the trumpets and trombones. Of course it would be ideal to have confirmation one way or another.



There is a solo leader, thanks for raising this point I have posted a ticket to the team to check that it is clear on our literature.


----------



## BassClef

synthetic said:


> Spent the day building a new template snd keyswitches, based on the videos and articulation lists on their site. #getalife



That is great. I have Babylonwaves “Art Conductor” articulation sets for Logic. I wonder if he has started on an update yet for BBCSO.


----------



## Fleer

christianhenson said:


> There is a solo leader, thanks for raising this point I have posted a ticket to the team to check that it is clear on our literature.


Swift and clear, thank you.


----------



## Denkii

BassClef said:


> That is great. I have Babylonwaves “Art Conductor” articulation sets for Logic. I wonder if he has started on an update yet for BBCSO.


I hope for Babylonwaves to extend support for BBCSO as well. The ultimate thing was if they also come up with a Cubase template for it including articulate maps.


----------



## Alex Fraser

synthetic said:


> Spent the day building a new template snd keyswitches, based on the videos and articulation lists on their site. #getalife


Not judging at all. If I had the opportunity to do it, I would too. 

I'm curious to know - did you find a pattern between the articulations and key switches? Is it a universal thing? (i.e legatos are always C-1 etc)

Thanks - A


----------



## synthetic

Alex Fraser said:


> I'm curious to know - did you find a pattern between the articulations and key switches? Is it a universal thing? (i.e legatos are always C-1 etc)



I hope so. It seemed to be that they all started from C-1, and the order on their website articulation list seemed to match the screens I saw in the video. I expect there will be some bug-fixing and changes, but at least I got it started. Also made assumptions like trombones and basses will not make it up to C5 so I put my keyswitches there, but we'll see when it's released.


----------



## pfmusic

christianhenson said:


> Here's something for ya!




Oh! That small snippet from the Cello leader sounds brilliant!

I wonder if all the string leaders would make a nice quartet? Especially with those mic options.

@christianhenson @paulthomson


----------



## Portland

I can't wait to hear some more percussion, especially exploring the options with those spill mics. Very exciting!


----------



## Pablocrespo

@paulthomson another question, do the jake jackson mixes have spill mics? because in the video you add them to that mix.

the leader mic in the cellos sounds like beautiful way to have a chamber string sound!


----------



## Piano & Strings

@christianhenson One of the aspects of the Studio series that I like is that there is a separate vibrato control, assignable to a fader. I'm curious if the BBCSO has this feature also and if so, on which instruments? Thanks!


----------



## ridgero

Pablocrespo said:


> @paulthomson another question, do the jake jackson mixes have spill mics? because in the video you add them to that mix.
> 
> the leader mic in the cellos sounds like beautiful way to have a chamber string sound!



Nope, Jake‘s mixes are without the spill mics. Jake commented that on youtube.


----------



## christianhenson

Piano & Strings said:


> @christianhenson One of the aspects of the Studio series that I like is that there is a separate vibrato control, assignable to a fader. I'm curious if the BBCSO has this feature also and if so, on which instruments? Thanks!



Yes BBCSO has this feature, PT will explain in a future video.


----------



## wbacer

Regarding the SSD option, like some of you, I use VEPro with some samples hosted on a Mac and some on a PC.
I emailed Spitfire and asked how the Mac and PC SSDs were formatted. They replied that the Mac SSD is formatted with Mac OS and the PC is formatted with NTFS. For example, I'd like to able to plug their SSD into my Mac and transfer the Winds, Brass and Perc to my Mac then plug it into my PC and transfer Choirs and Strings. With the way their SSDs are formatted, that's not possible but they said they could custom format an EXFAT SSD so that I could use it cross platform. I suggested that they offer an EXFAT formatted SSD as a third option. Would anyone else benefit from this?


----------



## dzilizzi

wbacer said:


> Regarding the SSD option, like some of you, I use VEPro with some samples hosted on a Mac and some on a PC.
> I emailed Spitfire and asked how the Mac and PC SSDs were formatted. They replied that the Mac SSD is formatted with Mac OS and the PC is formatted with NTFS. For example, I'd like to able to plug their SSD into my Mac and transfer the Winds, Brass and Perc to my Mac then plug it into my PC and transfer Choirs and Strings. With the way their SSDs are formatted, that's not possible but they said they could custom format an EXFAT SSD so that I could use it cross platform. I suggested that they offer an EXFAT formatted SSD as a third option. Would anyone else benefit from this?


At that point, you might as well buy the HDD version if you don't want to download. ExFAT is not readily usable for streaming, from what I understand. I could be wrong, but this was what I was told when I first started. And? I always have a FAT32 section on my drive that moves between computers in order to transfer current projects.


----------



## barteredbride

BassClef said:


> That is great. I have Babylonwaves “Art Conductor” articulation sets for Logic. I wonder if he has started on an update yet for BBCSO.


I´m sure it´ll happen, but I doubt they are planning a Cubase template. Unless @babylonwaves is thinking about this?!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Denkii said:


> I hope for Babylonwaves to extend support for BBCSO as well. The ultimate thing was if they also come up with a Cubase template for it including articulate maps.


This would be cool. But would it then prevent us from sharing the DAW files? Technically it would be possible but perhaps it would cause licensing issues as we'd be re-distributing them to non Babylonwaves users. 🤔


----------



## Denkii

Alex Fraser said:


> This would be cool. But would it then prevent us from sharing the DAW files? Technically it would be possible but perhaps it would cause licensing issues as we'd be re-distributing them to non Babylonwaves users. 🤔


Fair point.
Maybe some people could pledge together for a one time creation fee?


----------



## BassClef

Alex Fraser said:


> This would be cool. But would it then prevent us from sharing the DAW files? Technically it would be possible but perhaps it would cause licensing issues as we'd be re-distributing them to non Babylonwaves users. 🤔



I'm sure it would. You must have the articulation sets loaded on your computer in the articulation folder, or they will not show up in Logic, unless they are saved with a project even if you did not already have them... I DOUBT THAT, but it could be easily tested.


----------



## Pablocrespo

ridgero said:


> Nope, Jake‘s mixes are without the spill mics. Jake commented that on youtube.



That’s too bad because adding spills to the JJ mix sounds gorgeous, and if it came premixed it would be better for memory saving. 

Which video are you referring to?


----------



## Saxer

Articulation Sets in Logic are saved with the song. I think I remember in one of CH's template video he mentioned they would maybe add Articulation Sets for BBCSO in the public template. But I may be wrong.


----------



## synthetic

I'm surprised so many people want to use a prefab template. I like putting together my template. Besides, what about your mega horns and thunder toms and apocalypse choir and everything else not in this library? 

Or have we all agreed to go back to 1985 scoring? I'm actually cool with that if we shake on it.


----------



## Portland

Anybody recognize what MIDI faders Paul is caressing in the overview video? Apologies if this has already been asked. My wonderful satellite internet can scarcely load 240p so I can't make out any details. 

I've been on the hunt for a good simple control surface without an ocean of dials and gizmos. There seems to be a dearth of them, or I'm just not looking in the right places.


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

wbacer said:


> Regarding the SSD option, like some of you, I use VEPro with some samples hosted on a Mac and some on a PC.
> I emailed Spitfire and asked how the Mac and PC SSDs were formatted. They replied that the Mac SSD is formatted with Mac OS and the PC is formatted with NTFS. For example, I'd like to able to plug their SSD into my Mac and transfer the Winds, Brass and Perc to my Mac then plug it into my PC and transfer Choirs and Strings. With the way their SSDs are formatted, that's not possible but they said they could custom format an EXFAT SSD so that I could use it cross platform. I suggested that they offer an EXFAT formatted SSD as a third option. Would anyone else benefit from this?


Exfat is like a lottery. It May be accessed quite fast or it May be very slow. You ne er know. While Windows wont read nor write on hfs or apfs, mac OS actually should be capable of reading a ntfs formatted drive. Surely not suitable for Sample streaming but likely enough for copying them


----------



## Jdiggity1

Portland said:


> Anybody recognize what MIDI faders Paul is caressing in the overview video? Apologies if this has already been asked. My wonderful satellite internet can scarcely load 240p so I can't make out any details.
> 
> I've been on the hunt for a good simple control surface without an ocean of dials and gizmos. There seems to be a dearth of them, or I'm just not looking in the right places.



That would be a Kenton Control Freak Studio Edition


----------



## Portland

Jdiggity1 said:


> That would be a Kenton Control Freak Studio Edition



Thanks.


----------



## Noeticus

Jdiggity1 said:


> That would be a Kenton Control Freak Studio Edition



Do you know of a good alternative, as I don't think they sell it anymore?


----------



## cqd

Noeticus said:


> Do you know of a good alternative, as I don't think they sell it anymore?



Check out nakeboards..


----------



## BassClef

I am considering these... https://palettegear.com/midi

You can see in his videos that Christian at Spitfire uses a set of these with only two sliders and a couple of buttons./knobs... all modular and you mix and match. But I'm also considering a breath controller.


----------



## Zedcars

cqd said:


> Check out nakeboards..


I’m interested in a MIDI controller too. They look nice, although disappointed there are no knobs.



https://www.nakedboards.org/mc8.html



My keyboard has faders but they are not smooth at all.


----------



## Tilt & Flow

BassClef said:


> I am considering these... https://palettegear.com/midi
> 
> You can see in his videos that Christian at Spitfire uses a set of these with only two sliders and a couple of buttons./knobs... all modular and you mix and match. But I'm also considering a breath controller.


Looks like they have a new model coming in feb 2020...


----------



## Jdiggity1

Noeticus said:


> Do you know of a good alternative, as I don't think they sell it anymore?


The closest alternative to the Kenton is the Peavey PC1600X. Other popular alternatives include the JL Cooper FaderMaster Pro, the CME Bitstream 3x, Doepfer Pocket Fader, Behringer BCF2000, Evolution UC-33.... All of which are quite old these days and increasing in rarity.
But there's really no shortage of fader controllers these days.
Nektar Panorama P1, iCon Platform, Korg NanoKONTROL Studio, StudioLogic SL MixFace, Akai MIDImix, Behringer X-Touch Compact, Palette Gear, Novation Launch Control XL, Novation Zero SL mkii, iControls Pro, Encore Slidemate, FaderFox UC44, and so on, and so on...


----------



## yellowtone

Does anyone find they need more than 2 faders? I'm super torn between buying a fader controller or just upgrading my keyboard to one that has faders. In the event that I go with the keyboard I would want 9 faders to be used as Hammond drawbars, but for playing in midi I think I'd only ever need 2 - one for dynamics and one for expression. My workflow is looking more and more like Spitfire demos where I'd use both at the same time. The problem is that some fader controller options, like Icon's or Behringer BCF2000 which look great, have only 8 faders - so won't do me any favors for drawbars, and I can't imagine I'll ever use more than 2 or 3. Options like Palette which look great and offer only 2 fader options, are expensive and just make me think I should get a new keyboard. I see the Behringer x-touch has 9 faders, but at 250 eur (compact) to 380 eur (regular), I'd already be 15-20% into a new keyboard - and.... it's Behringer.


----------



## dzilizzi

I have a launchkey with 8 sliders plus a master slider and 8 knobs. Although there are only 8 sliders, I think you can increase this to at least 16 sliders with the < > track buttons. I haven't really tried it yet. They may just work for the midi tracks. I've used the midi learn for both sliders and knobs and find they work well. Maybe they could be a little smoother. The ones on my older 49 key are easier to move than my new 61 key one, but this could be a use thing.


----------



## PerryD

yellowtone said:


> Does anyone find they need more than 2 faders? I'm super torn between buying a fader controller or just upgrading my keyboard to one that has faders. In the event that I go with the keyboard I would want 9 faders to be used as Hammond drawbars, but for playing in midi I think I'd only ever need 2 - one for dynamics and one for expression. My workflow is looking more and more like Spitfire demos where I'd use both at the same time. The problem is that some fader controller options, like Icon's or Behringer BCF2000 which look great, have only 8 faders - so won't do me any favors for drawbars, and I can't imagine I'll ever use more than 2 or 3. Options like Palette which look great and offer only 2 fader options, are expensive and just make me think I should get a new keyboard. I see the Behringer x-touch has 9 faders, but at 250 eur (compact) to 380 eur (regular), I'd already be 15-20% into a new keyboard - and.... it's Behringer.


 I got a used Behringer x-touch compact for a good price that was like new. I wouldn't own any Behringer stuff to pass audio.  Since they partnered with Midas Consoles, the 100mm faders are fairly nice quality.


----------



## jamwerks

yellowtone said:


> Does anyone find they need more than 2 faders?


I would think you'd want at least 4. In addition to CC 1,11, & 7, you'll probably want at least 1 or two more faders to control things like vibrato and other (legato speed, variation, etc.).


----------



## Portland

Damn, that Nakedboards MC-8 is precisely what I'm looking for. I think I'll have to grab one.


----------



## synthetic

I picked up the Peavey for cheap and usually use four faders when I play (if the sample supports it.) I ride CC1&11 with one finger and vibrato depth and rate with the other. (Sample Modeling supports rate) I also use three faders for mic mixes, close/tree/ambient or something like that. I have other faders for attack, release, legato transition volume/speed but those are the ones I use most.

Having both CC1 and 11 means you can make something quieter without making it darker, etc.


----------



## Noeticus

I just ordered a Nakedboards MC-8 off of eBay as the Nakedboards site has perhaps security issues.


----------



## MaxOctane

I keep meaning to buy a USB expression pedal, to control the CCs by foot. Anyone do this today?


----------



## AllanH

yellowtone said:


> Does anyone find they need more than 2 faders?



I'd say at least three for dynamics, volume and vibrato. That's generally what I use.

I've used an Akai Pad contoller with 8 sliders for several years and like it (MDP 232)


----------



## AllanH

MaxOctane said:


> I keep meaning to buy a USB expression pedal, to control the CCs by foot. Anyone do this today?




I have a regular expression pedal that goes into my Kurzweil and generates CC11. That has proven completely useless for me; I by far prefer faders.


----------



## prodigalson

FWIW The palette gear allows you to have several “pages” of controller settings so even with just two faders you can theoretically have many more. for example, I have just two faders with the main page being CC 1 and 11, then I just hit a button and those faders become vibrato and CC32. Hitting the same button then jumps back to CC 1 and 11. Not perfect if you like to ride vibrato at the same time as dynamics but for me it works great as I usually just record in the vibrato data after recording dynamics


----------



## AllanH

prodigalson said:


> FWIW The palette gear allows you to have several “pages” of controller settings so even with just two faders you can theoretically have many more. for example, I have just two faders with the main page being CC 1 and 11, then I just hit a button and those faders become vibrato and CC32. Hitting the same button then jumps back to CC 1 and 11. Not perfect if you like to ride vibrato at the same time as dynamics but for me it works great as I usually just record in the vibrato data after recording dynamics


Interesting ... thank you for the details.


----------



## yellowtone

Thanks @AllanH and @prodigalson - the Palette gear option is sounding more interesting. Just so I understand from a workflow perspective, when you're playing in, are you using more than 2 faders? Or do you use the additional faders for post recording editing? From my perspective, I can't imagine using more than 2 faders while playing in, so I'm just curious if there's an alternate workflow that I haven't tried. I have tried using an expression pedal, and this is OK, but I can't combine it with a fader or a second pedal effectively, and I'm finding faders are much better for me. Thus, needing either a new fader controller or getting a different keyboard.

EDIT: just saw @synthetic 's response, it sounds like some people are indeed able to use more than 2 faders during play in... I'll have to think about that. I think for me 2 will be the max, but am beginning to appreciate why I might want more than 2 (or something like the Palette gear option).


----------



## Loïc D

Christian Henson mentionned on his vlog a while ago that his palette gear faders were not ageing very well, ending with sloppy cc curves.
So, it’s maybe not the most durable option for an intensive use over time.


----------



## AndyP

I've got a BC2000 in some box. The faders are not bad, for automation the thing rattles too loud, and it is much to big.
I am still satisfied with the Korg Nanocontrolls.
I would like an extra 3D touchpad for vibrato, expression and crossfade control.


----------



## AllanH

Since we're already off in "controller weeds", I also think https://www.keithmcmillen.com/ is worth looking at. The products get mixed reviews, but if he had something like the boppad but as X-Y with pressure, I'd be thrilled.


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

AndyP said:


> I've got a BC2000 in some box. The faders are not bad, for automation the thing rattles too loud, and it is much to big.
> I am still satisfied with the Korg Nanocontrolls.
> I would like an extra 3D touchpad for vibrato, expression and crossfade control.



Funny to read this. Same situation here for the exact same reasons. BC2000 in a box and actually using the Korg Nanocontrol. Got a Korg Nanopad next to it for switching between my most popular KS / articulations.


----------



## Hadrondrift

Sjoerd Visser said:


> using the Korg Nanocontrol.


Korg nanoKontrol Studio here, does its job, wireless (MIDI over Bluetooth, setting that up under Win10 was a pain, though), slightly longer faders than the normal nanoKontrol2. Tried a BC2000 as well a long time ago, was way too noisy for me.


----------



## Loïc D

I’ve got a Playful Music Joué controller.
It’s not plugged now but I plan to use it intensively very soon.
The concept behind Joué is quite amazing : it’s programmable & removable rubber pad modules on a board with magnets.


----------



## wolb1

I had a nakedboards and the MIDI resolution was not good. Now I’m using a trackpad and Audioswift set to 4 faders which is great


----------



## AndyP

I just loaded ribn for iOS. I'll try that tonight.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Korg Nano Kontrol is a great Swiss army knife for pennies. The fader throw is a little short but it's fine for things like vibrato, tightness etc which don't require the same finesse as dynamics. 
And if/when it breaks, Amazon Prime a replacement.


----------



## Zedcars

I use one of these. Has served me well over the years...


----------



## Loïc D

Zedcars said:


> I use one of these. Has served me well over the years...


Oh, and it comes with onboard libraries !


----------



## Zedcars

LowweeK said:


> Oh, and it comes with onboard libraries !


Yes! Even has a built-in mic for making your own sample libraries. Surprised Christian and Paul don’t have one tbh.


----------



## AndyP

Zedcars said:


> I use one of these. Has served me well over the years...


How long does it take to understand how to operate it? I prefer simple devices with just one button, max.


----------



## gsilbers

i wish spitfire and large expensive libraries would consider rent to own options. i would totally buy BBC at $30-50 bucks a month for a year or so. instead of using CC with large interest %.
kontakt was the holdback but w the new players around, seems possible.


----------



## dzilizzi

I bet you get great sound out of that!


----------



## Zedcars

AndyP said:


> How long does it take to understand how to operate it? I prefer simple devices with just one button, max.


Bit like Logic’s environment. At first you’re like, WTF? Then after about 10 years it finally clicks.


----------



## PerryD

My PC has two Thunderbolt 3 ports. 1 goes to my audio interface and 1 goes to a drive bay that can accommodate 2 HD's or 2 SSD's. I intend to disconnect the drive bay and use the Spitfire SSD in its place. I wonder if there is a "hub" that could provide an additional TB3 port from my PC? I may also consider removing the Spitfire SSD from its case at some point and using it directly in the drive bay. I heard this will void the Spitfire warranty. I hope it is not difficult to remove the SSD from its case...screws are better than glue. :/


----------



## prodigalson

LowweeK said:


> Christian Henson mentionned on his vlog a while ago that his palette gear faders were not ageing very well, ending with sloppy cc curves.
> So, it’s maybe not the most durable option for an intensive use over time.




Interesting...I’ve had mine for about a year and haven’t noticed any issues yet. I do know that the company is planning a new version of it early next year. 

I also suspect that the palette gear was not actually intended for music production off the bat (even though it works great for it) but found an unexpected market in music producers. The sense I get from the info they’ve provided is that this new surface will be designed from the get go for a wider variety of purposes.


----------



## prodigalson

It also looks like they intend to debut a new disc controller called Orbiter which could provide interesting control opportunities for certain instruments. It has a pressure sensitive center disc with an infinite-turn encoder ring. Assuming you can assign MIDI CC assignments to both of these, controlling Sample modeling and similar instruments could be interesting in combo with their regular faders


----------



## dzilizzi

Christian travels a lot with his Palette gear. It could be they are just not up to that kind of travel. I've had some things deal better with being packed into a case that isn't overly padded than others. If you just sit it on your desk and don't move it much? It may last a lot longer.


----------



## synthetic

They’re copying the library onto drives according to Christian’s insta:



I assume that means it’s finished? Or maybe this is just the sample data and they’re still tweaking the instrument data.


----------



## Zedcars

synthetic said:


> They’re copying the library onto drives according to Christian’s insta:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume that means it’s finished? Or maybe this is just the sample data and they’re still tweaking the instrument data.



Mine’s over there on the left I think...looks a bit sickly and special...like one of those mutated Frankenstein spermatozoas with a funked up tail.

Somehow, no matter what I buy, I usually get a funky one. But hopefully not.


----------



## PerryD

synthetic said:


> They’re copying the library onto drives according to Christian’s insta:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume that means it’s finished? Or maybe this is just the sample data and they’re still tweaking the instrument data.



Very cool to see this in progress! I somehow imagined a more automated process. This is more like a boutique cookie company that still bakes in their home kitchen. Those are always the best cookies!


----------



## ridgero

LowweeK said:


> Christian Henson mentionned on his vlog a while ago that his palette gear faders were not ageing very well, ending with sloppy cc curves.
> So, it’s maybe not the most durable option for an intensive use over time.



And he mentioned connection problems sometimes. When I remember correctly he said he maybe go back to his old controller at some point.


----------



## AEF

Im really angry with Paul. His mic demo was so effing good that Im going to have to buy this library. 

I wasnt certain Id need to upgrade from SSS SCS and SSW but Paul Thompson just ruined that for me. 

In seriousness, Bravo guys.

Im curious to hear about how the Logic Template will look. Articulation sets? Shorts and longs split?


----------



## VinRice

Zedcars said:


> I use one of these. Has served me well over the years...



Show-off. We can't all afford the "Rolls-Royce' of controller keyboards you know.


----------



## BassClef

AndyP said:


> I just loaded ribn for iOS. I'll try that tonight.



I also just downloaded it and can not get to work with Logic on my Mac.


----------



## BassClef

wolb1 said:


> I had a nakedboards and the MIDI resolution was not good. Now I’m using a trackpad and Audioswift set to 4 faders which is great



I'm doing a trial period of AudioSwift now. It works well and gives me MUCH smoother curves than the faders on my Nectar Panorama P1 keyboard controller. I had some problems at first and emailed the developer... got back to me within an hour... FANTASTIC SUPPORT!


----------



## Odum Abekah

AEF said:


> Im really angry with Paul. His mic demo was so effing good that Im going to have to buy this library.
> 
> I wasnt certain Id need to upgrade from SSS SCS and SSW but Paul Thompson just ruined that for me.
> 
> In seriousness, Bravo guys.
> 
> Im curious to hear about how the Logic Template will look. Articulation sets? Shorts and longs split?



Haha right? I’m very excited to purchase this library - I’ve been collecting some production libraries over the past year - this and Superior Drummer 3 with the Percussion SDX are my next purchases. I want to have something capable of making convincing orchestra mockups and this fits the bill the more I get to hear it!

Now if only I was good at programming 😂😭. Any starter tutorials/resources?


----------



## gpax

PerryD said:


> My PC has two Thunderbolt 3 ports. 1 goes to my audio interface and 1 goes to a drive bay that can accommodate 2 HD's or 2 SSD's. I intend to disconnect the drive bay and use the Spitfire SSD in its place. I wonder if there is a "hub" that could provide an additional TB3 port from my PC? I may also consider removing the Spitfire SSD from its case at some point and using it directly in the drive bay. I heard this will void the Spitfire warranty. I hope it is not difficult to remove the SSD from its case...screws are better than glue. :/


I was told directly, via a support ticket, that it will void the warranty to take the SSD out. Tech support also discussed that it’s not difficult to remove the screws, and arguably it is low risk. However, if the drive becomes faulty, SA will not consider it under warranty.

My situation is that I would prefer to put the SSD directly into one of my two Blackmagic docks, both of which are connected to my two USB-C/TB 3 ports.


----------



## prodigalson

gpax said:


> I was told directly, via a support ticket, that it will void the warranty to take the SSD out. Tech support also discussed that it’s not difficult to remove the screws, and arguably it is low risk. However, if the drive becomes faulty, SA will not consider it under warranty.
> 
> My situation is that I would prefer to put the SSD directly into one of my two Blackmagic docks, both of which are connected to my two USB-C/TB 3 ports.



Worst case scenario the drive becomes faulty and you have to download the library again (or pay for the ssd again)...


----------



## Zedcars

Time marches on. 3 weeks and counting...





__





Free Online Countdown Timer for Christmas, vacation and other events







www.arewethere.yt


----------



## AndyP

BassClef said:


> I also just downloaded it and can not get to work with Logic on my Mac.


I answered you in the other thread. I haven't tried BT yet, but with lightning cable it wasn't a problem.


----------



## Alex Fraser

(rubs hands together)


----------



## madfloyd

Wasn't one of Paul's videos the walkthrough?


----------



## prodigalson

madfloyd said:


> Wasn't one of Paul's videos the walkthrough?



"Strings Walkthrough"


----------



## madfloyd

prodigalson said:


> "Strings Walkthrough"



Ahh, thanks. The video I was thinking of was an overview of the entire orchestra... doh!


----------



## Noeticus

I hope Spitfire releases an expansion to the BBCSO that has Divisi Strings, as I am just a bit sad that it does not already have Divisi. So I hope they add in 2 player, 4 player, and 8 player violins etc.


----------



## Zedcars

Noeticus said:


> I hope Spitfire releases an expansion to the BBCSO that has Divisi Strings, as I am just a bit sad that it does not already have Divisi. So I hope they add in 2 player, 4 player, and 8 player violins etc.


This.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

this thread has over 3k replies and it's not even out yet. won't be surprised if it hits 4k before it comes out


----------



## Bluemount Score

ProfoundSilence said:


> this thread has over 3k replies and it's not even out yet. won't be surprised if it hits 4k before it comes out


Bot comments, bought by Spitfire, cheap trick


----------



## cqd

I think Christian said in one of his vlogs that there's an octobass that may or may not have been recorded being added to the library if it hits 5000 posts by the 24th..


----------



## Bluemount Score

cqd said:


> I think Christian said in one of his vlogs that there's an octobass that may or may not have been recorded being added to the library if it hits 5000 posts by the 24th..


Cool! (+1 hehe)


----------



## Hadrondrift

Noeticus said:


> I am just a bit sad that it does not already have Divisi.


I am more lacking an E-flat clarinet and con sordino brass articulations, but well, you can't have it all


----------



## synthetic

New BBC Philharmonic album that sounds incredible for those with Apple Music:









British Tone Poems, Vol. 2 by BBC Philharmonic & Rumon Gamba


Album · 2019 · 8 Songs




music.apple.com


----------



## Adam Takacs




----------



## Alex Fraser

Paul is seriously underselling those legatos. The agility of the leaders...wow.


----------



## ridgero

The legatos = OMG


----------



## Bluemount Score

Alex Fraser said:


> Paul is seriously underselling those legatos. The agility of the leaders...wow.


I'm really fascinated how the legato patch alone almost seems sufficient even for very short notes / staccato parts. Too good to be true?


----------



## AndyP

There is no reason for me not to buy this library anymore.
Especially in the lower registers the sound can convince me.
This was already the case with the BHCT, and is no different here. Looks like I'll be going into it soon.


----------



## JoeHidden

Alex Fraser said:


> Paul is seriously underselling those legatos. The agility of the leaders...wow.



Amazing ❤️


----------



## MartinH.

Has anything about the DRM that is going to be used revealed yet? With the recent reports about issues with NI Native Access deactivating random products ( https://vi-control.net/community/th...-in-demo-mode-ni-support-is-inexistent.84022/ ) this is becoming more and more of a factor in my purchases and one of the possible dealbreaker criteria for me. I'm not planning to buy anything new soon, but BBCSO is a serious contender for my next string-/full-orchestra library.


----------



## xanderscores

I've been working with VSL samples for almost 20 years now and it always took me hours and days to get the sound right. In today's video it's all there IN AN INSTANT, right at one's fingertips, playable and authentic. This is amazing. I'm definitely in.


----------



## TGV

Holy Menuhin! They do know how to make sample libraries.

But what does that "Global" switch do on the mixer page? I've missed that in the discussion. Does that make all plugins have the same mic mix?


----------



## redlester

MartinH. said:


> Has anything about the DRM that is going to be used revealed yet? With the recent reports about issues with NI Native Access deactivating random products ( https://vi-control.net/community/th...-in-demo-mode-ni-support-is-inexistent.84022/ ) this is becoming more and more of a factor in my purchases and one of the possible dealbreaker criteria for me. I'm not planning to buy anything new soon, but BBCSO is a serious contender for my next string-/full-orchestra library.



They just sent out an email advising not to install Catalina when it comes out, other than that I can’t see there could be any such issues with BBCSO as it’s stand alone and doesn’t need Native Access. 

Personally I’ve never had any problems with Native Access, on Windows 10, High Sierra or Mojave.


----------



## Zedcars

Yay...I’m so excited! I had a big cheesy grin on my face listening to that. It’s made me so happy...sounds like heaven and no more fighting to get a good sound!


...and I think a little bit of wee came out.


----------



## Noeticus

Does the BBCSO allow you to play polyphonic legato with the strings?


----------



## ridgero

Legato can never be polyphonic? So I guess not


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

ridgero said:


> Legato can never be polyphonic? So I guess not


It's a rare feature but it does exist. Ventus Duduk has a polyphonic legato mode that works quite nicely, even from live keyboard input.


----------



## zolhof

This and Red Dead Redemption 2 coming to PC on Nov 5th... life is good


----------



## alfred tapscott

Noeticus said:


> Does the BBCSO allow you to play polyphonic legato with the strings?


Doesn't seem so. I guess I'll continue with Afflatus for moving chords and things that need polyphonic legato, but for the rest this seems pretty awesome. Hope to trash a lot of kontakt stuff after this!


----------



## Noeticus

Part of "Game Changing" would be to at least offer Polyphonic True Legato!


----------



## Sovereign

Noeticus said:


> Part of "Game Changing" would be to at least offer Polyphonic True Legato!


Would rather see legato repetition, which I fear is absent.


----------



## Zedcars

Noeticus said:


> Part of "Game Changing" would be to at least offer Polyphonic True Legato!


Perfection takes time. It may come but I think the sound is the most important thing, and they seem to have pretty much nailed it.


----------



## Pablocrespo

Sovereign said:


> Would rather see legato repetition, which I fear is absent.


I hope they address it in an future update, CSS handle this very nicely


----------



## yellowtone

The Violin 1 Leader longs, played as chords, sound so good to me. Seems like you could mimic some chamber sounds using the leaders for each group this way. Overall, the versatility of this library seems fantastic over the various videos they've already released, and at the price point this is a clearly impressive option. I'm definitely not getting any less excited about my pre-order.


----------



## Noeticus

Sovereign said:


> Would rather see legato repetition, which I fear is absent.



I see Round Robins in the legatos in the video.

But where are the portamentos and glissandi.


----------



## AndyP

ridgero said:


> Legato can never be polyphonic? So I guess not


More examples: VSL Strings, 8Dio Anthology ...


----------



## AndyP

Noeticus said:


> I see Round Robins in the legatos in the video.
> 
> But where are the portamentos and glissandi.


I think I heard a portamento at the beginning of the video.


----------



## Sovereign

Noeticus said:


> I see Round Robins in the legatos in the video.


probably just for the short overlayed staccato notes at high velocities.


----------



## Adam Takacs

Sovereign said:


> probably just for the short overlayed staccato notes at high velocities.


I think so


----------



## xanderscores

TGV said:


> But what does that "Global" switch do on the mixer page? I've missed that in the discussion. Does that make all plugins have the same mic mix?



I noticed it too and I sincerely hope it does just that. That would be exactly what I've missed all along with their Symphonic series in Kontakt.


----------



## styledelk

xanderscores said:


> I noticed it too and I sincerely hope it does just that. That would be exactly what I've missed all along with their Symphonic series in Kontakt.



If I remember from HZS, this is exactly what it does. Syncs all instances to the same.


----------



## yellowtone

styledelk said:


> If I remember from HZS, this is exactly what it does. Syncs all instances to the same.


Just so I understand, if you have 20 tracks, each with their own instance of the player, all using just a single close mic, and then you create a 21st track, with its own instance of the player, using close, tree and ambient mics... then you hit the global button all 21 tracks suddenly have close, tree and ambient mics? Wouldn’t that potentially have a massive impact on RAM and crash your rig? What happens if you use the global button on a track with all the spill mics?


----------



## zolhof

Unless they changed how the global switch works, if set to on, it makes the mixer changes persistent across articulations, not instances.


----------



## madfloyd

OK, I'm sold. I was worried about the strings - the tonality almost seemed off in the first audio demos, but between Paul's overview video and this latest one focused on strings, they sound excellent.


----------



## styledelk

zolhof said:


> Unless they changed how the global switch works, if set to on, it makes the mixer changes persistent across articulations, not instances.



That seems more reasonable


----------



## lumcas

ridgero said:


> Legato can never be polyphonic? So I guess not





AndyP said:


> More examples: VSL Strings, 8Dio Anthology ...



I think Audiobro Genesis is also a good example, so yes, It's more and more common to include this feature in newer libraries when appropriate.


----------



## tmhuud

xanderscores said:


> I noticed it too and I sincerely hope it does just that. That would be exactly what I've missed all along with their Symphonic series in Kontakt.



THAT would be a TREMENDOUS time saver. How I wish I could do that with ALL libraries, especially Orchestral.


----------



## CT

Man, they've really knocked this one out of the park.


----------



## artomatic

The string section alone is worth the price. 
So looking forward to its release!


----------



## dzilizzi

Why did I watch this???? I still have to wait until it is on a wishlist sale. It does sound lovely.


----------



## Odum Abekah

dzilizzi said:


> Why did I watch this???? I still have to wait until it is on a wishlist sale. It does sound lovely.


In the same boat - with the introductory price and being lucky to get an EDU discount, 40% off is crazy to pass; it’s important for me to purchase it in the preorder time frame. I’m continually encouraged by what I’m hearing, so that helps!


----------



## dzilizzi

If I had the edu discount I would get it.


----------



## jaketanner

Odum Abekah said:


> it’s important for me to purchase it in the preorder time frame.


but the EDU discount is not off the intro price, it's off the original price no?


----------



## dzilizzi

jaketanner said:


> but the EDU discount is not off the intro price, it's off the original price no?


Yes, but it makes it $600 not $749.


----------



## jaketanner

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, but it makes it $600 not $749.


right, but then why the rush to get it during intro price ?


----------



## lumcas

jaketanner said:


> right, but then why the rush to get it during intro price ?



You are thinking too logically for this age.


----------



## gpax

jaketanner said:


> right, but then why the rush to get it during intro price ?


Because the current 40 percent off EDU promotion SA is running ends soon. Then it will go back to 30 percent EDU. I should know ; )


----------



## jaketanner

gpax said:


> Because the current 40 percent off EDU promotion SA is running ends soon. Then it will go back to 30 percent EDU. I should know ; )


Ah damn, I completely forgot about that. They’re 30% for regular edu. Sorry. Lol. Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## Zedcars

They just passed another milestone. Congrats guys.


----------



## smallberries

Sarah Mancuso said:


> It's a rare feature but it does exist. Ventus Duduk has a polyphonic legato mode that works quite nicely, even from live keyboard input.


This is a real puzzler for me (what you mean by polyphonic legato, I mean). 

Do you mean, given a sequence of chords in a homophonic texture, assign a voice to each note in a chord and perform the legato transition as the voices change to the next chord? (I guess while obeying standard voice-leading rules, you did not specify, or specify what should be done when substantial revision is needed to accomplish voice leading rules).

Or do you mean, given a keyboard fugue, split that into voices and perform legato transitions within each line? That is super-easy, until it's not.

Each has "obvious" cases, and each is nuts in the general case; I'm just wondering which case you are unhappy about not having, and what failures you have been willing to tolerate. This seems like a fine feature for making improvised sketches sound "better" (yay, legato), but a hopeful abandonment of responsibilities as an arranger/composer if you decide you are unhappy with what came out of the speakers when you said "go for it".


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> They just passed another milestone. Congrats guys.


Needs to be pinned to thread top. 😅


----------



## Alex Fraser

Just some random observations on this library as I wait for an upload to complete..

I've watched over an hour of footage of this library. Usually at this point, you can hear the "cracks". Maybe some questionable legato/bumpy transitions/not a great sounding room. I don't recall hearing anything like this for BBCSO so far. I'm sure there's something to be heard but it hasn't jumped out at me yet.
For me, BBCSO totally vindicates a move to the Spitfire player. The Kontakt equivalent would be a hodgepodge of multiple patches and a bit of a nightmare, frankly.
I thought Spitfire would cut corners on the legato but it appears they've done the opposite. I can hear multiple speed transitions and the sort of "performance" features found in the high end SSO. Very impressive.
The leaders. Enough said.
Still waiting on sleighbell examples though.


----------



## FinGael

Alex Fraser said:


> Just some random observations on this library as I wait for an upload to complete..
> 
> I've watched over an hour of footage of this library. Usually at this point, you can hear the "cracks". Maybe some questionable legato/bumpy transitions/not a great sounding room. I don't recall hearing anything like this for BBCSO so far. I'm sure there's something to be heard but it hasn't jumped out at me yet.
> For me, BBCSO totally vindicates a move to the Spitfire player. The Kontakt equivalent would be a hodgepodge of multiple patches and a bit of a nightmare, frankly.
> I thought Spitfire would cut corners on the legato but it appears they've done the opposite. I can hear multiple speed transitions and the sort of "performance" features found in the high end SSO. Very impressive.
> The leaders. Enough said.
> Still waiting on sleighbell examples though.



A very nice summary.

I am happy that you listed the last one, because we all know that the sleigh bells are the most important and the cream of the crop as well.

Dear Santa, please bring me a t-shirt with a text: "I bought this library to have (more) sleigh bells".


----------



## pfmusic

tadam said:


>




BBCSO strings sound amazing. This looks as if it's going to be Spitfires best product to date.

Looking forward to hearing the other sections!


----------



## pawelmorytko

Very excited to hear the brass/woodwinds walkthrough. Strings are great and all but having 3 string libraries already, I am not too bothered about them. Much more excited to hear those farty tubas and mellow trombones and lyrical horn melodies and lovely woodwind runs and textures!


----------



## Bluemount Score

pawelmorytko said:


> Very excited to hear the brass/woodwinds walkthrough. Strings are great and all but having 3 string libraries already, I am not too bothered about them. Much more excited to hear those farty tubas and mellow trombones and lyrical horn melodies and lovely woodwind runs and textures!


Yes! And some love for Celeste and Harp as well please!


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Cowbells.


----------



## Odum Abekah

lumcas said:


> You are thinking too logically for this age.


An additional $100 off is still a fair amount of change for me and I lose that opportunity after the 23rd. Logical for me!


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> They just passed another milestone. Congrats guys.



Zedcars, are you @Coldwar_Steve in disguise?


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> Zedcars, are you @Coldwar_Steve in disguise?


Have you ever seen us both in the same room together? 

(the answer to your enquiry is no, but I’ll take it as a compliment.)

P.S. Maybe I should have squeezed Steve McFadden in there somewhere! lol


----------



## madfloyd

Still can't decide whether to purchase one of the hard drive options or just download....


----------



## Hadrondrift

Alex Fraser said:


> I'm sure there's something to be heard but it hasn't jumped out at me yet.


Hmmm... Mr. Thomson presented the Marcato articulations rather hastily. I had the feeling the video had been edited there.. 
Nah, just kidding, not the guy who keeps looking for mistakes. That library really impresses me - and after each demo a little more.

Longest Thread Award - And I have no feeling at all that it is nearing its end.


----------



## mikeh-375

This product is a leveller in one respect only. Who's gonna make it sing people....????


----------



## mikeh-375

@Zedcars, no, nooooo, Liz II does not like Quality St. Jeez if it wasn't for that obvious photoshopping mistake, you'd have had me.


----------



## PerryD

mikeh-375 said:


> This product is a leveller in one respect only. Who's gonna make it sing people....????


 I know it's a great "all-in-one" library but I will definitely be incorporating some of my favorite existing libraries with it. People that do likewise better mention, "I also used..." when they present BBCSO examples.  "Wow...how are they getting _*that*_ sound with the same tools I have?!" I have a big enough inferiority complex already!


----------



## Alex Fraser

mikeh-375 said:


> @Zedcars, no, nooooo, Liz II does not like Quality St. Jeez if it wasn't for that obvious photoshopping mistake, you'd have had me.


Actually true, as it's Cadbury's who hold the Royal Warrant of Appointment.


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> Actually true, as it's Cadbury's who hold the Royal Warrant of Appointment.



Another reason to prefer Quality Street!


----------



## Noeticus

smallberries said:


> This is a real puzzler for me (what you mean by polyphonic legato, I mean).
> 
> Do you mean, given a sequence of chords in a homophonic texture, assign a voice to each note in a chord and perform the legato transition as the voices change to the next chord? (I guess while obeying standard voice-leading rules, you did not specify, or specify what should be done when substantial revision is needed to accomplish voice leading rules).
> 
> Or do you mean, given a keyboard fugue, split that into voices and perform legato transitions within each line? That is super-easy, until it's not.
> 
> Each has "obvious" cases, and each is nuts in the general case; I'm just wondering which case you are unhappy about not having, and what failures you have been willing to tolerate. This seems like a fine feature for making improvised sketches sound "better" (yay, legato), but a hopeful abandonment of responsibilities as an arranger/composer if you decide you are unhappy with what came out of the speakers when you said "go for it".



If a solo violinist can play legato, then polyphonic legato would be multiple players also playing legato.

Easy, yes?


----------



## dzilizzi

I think in this case it means that the player will basically only play one note at a time. Whereas, if it were polyphonic, you could play multiple notes and still have legato through the chord changes. I can see how polyphonic legato would be difficult to program as the player wont know which note you want to legato from-to, if that makes sense.


----------



## Zedcars

mikeh-375 said:


> @Zedcars, no, nooooo, Liz II does not like Quality St. Jeez if it wasn't for that obvious photoshopping mistake, you'd have had me.


Funny the Quality Street should tip you off and not the levitating Queen or the Michael Jordan of the sleigh bell world!


----------



## prodigalson

dzilizzi said:


> I think in this case it means that the player will basically only play one note at a time. Whereas, if it were polyphonic, you could play multiple notes and still have legato through the chord changes. I can see how polyphonic legato would be difficult to program as the player wont know which note you want to legato from-to, if that makes sense.



Several products have polyphonic legato including Strezov Afflatus Strings, several cinesamples products and Audiobros libraries. They script it based on a number of rules but mostly just when you transition multiple voices at once each voice will have a legato transition to the nearest note. I’m not totally sure why this is a mind blowing concept for some. It’s been a feature of certain libraries (with varying success) for quite a while.


----------



## Zedcars

So, just to speculate for fun, my estimate is they will start mailing out the SSDs/HDDs towards the end of the coming week or the beginning of the week after. They showed us they are being preped, so other than packaging, labelling and logistics (not easy when you have hundreds (or thousands?) to send) it sounds like they are very close to ship date. My guess is shipping will start week of 14th.


----------



## dzilizzi

prodigalson said:


> Several products have polyphonic legato including Strezov Afflatus Strings, several cinesamples products and Audiobros libraries. They script it based on a number of rules but mostly just when you transition multiple voices at once each voice will have a legato transition to the nearest note. I’m not totally sure why this is a mind blowing concept for some. It’s been a feature of certain libraries (with varying success) for quite a while.


Not mind blowing, just that I could see how it might not sound the way you want it to sound.


----------



## yellowtone

Zedcars said:


> So, just to speculate for fun, my estimate is they will start mailing out the SSDs/HDDs towards the end of the coming week or the beginning of the week after. They showed us they are being preped, so other than packaging, labelling and logistics (not easy when you have hundreds (or thousands?) to send) it sounds like they are very close to ship date. My guess is shipping will start week of 14th.


In order to make the October 24 release date they I would think will definitely want to start shipping soon to ensure everyone who preordered has their drives in hand. I managed international transportation logistics for a very large retailer and all I can say is ship early if you can as delays are bound to happen. In this type of scenario, where customers are on the edge of their seats waiting for the product, it’s key to be early. It’s always a tough balance between wanting to provide the best/most complete product, keeping shipping costs low (using standard shipping services, not premium), and meeting deadlines.


----------



## Fleer

I just want BBCSO to be as perfect as can be.


----------



## AllanH

Fleer said:


> I just want BBCSO to be as perfect as can be.


Agreed - I'm very much looking forward the release.


----------



## bricop

Can someone please help me with a question about drive size? I have an SSD drive with around 650GB available. Will this be enough to install the library or do we need some additional memory to download, unpack and install? Hoping to save myself the price of buying the pre-installed drive. Thanks


----------



## al_net77

It has not been specified, but usually Spitfire libs based on their player does require the same amount fo disk space during install of the declared lib size (look at Eric Whitacre Choir specs). Kontakt libs needs twice the space to decompress after download.
Keep in mind that the 600 GB size was specified somewere here in the thread but does not appear in the BBCSO page yet, so maybe 650 GB could be too near to the real size.


----------



## jamwerks

Polyphonic legato probably lots of special scripting to program, when in the end, not many would use it. Might be useful on an ensemble patch for sketching?


----------



## Geoff Grace

christianhenson said:


> Just within the Spitfire catalogue if you wanted to share files you would need to own the following (all pro editions where appropriate to give you even a semblance of the same number of mics)
> 
> Symphonic strings
> Symphonic woods
> Symphonic brass
> Solo strings
> Skaila Kanga Harp
> Joby Burgess percussion
> .



I can't believe poor Paul Clarvis didn't make the cut! His contribution costs a small fraction of the others and is even on sale this month:

Scraped Percussion

Best,

Geoff


----------



## widekeys

Yes, ensemble patches for strings, winds, brass and percussion would be very useful. Just longs with short attacks in one patch for quick orchestration sketching.


----------



## mikeh-375

Alex Fraser said:


> Actually true, as it's Cadbury's who hold the Royal Warrant of Appointment.



Damn you Alex ( ) ....no wait, you trust Wiki? Your brain is addled with too much poor quality (ha) chocolate sir....oh all right I concede, Cadburys it is then.


----------



## dzilizzi

bricop said:


> Can someone please help me with a question about drive size? I have an SSD drive with around 650GB available. Will this be enough to install the library or do we need some additional memory to download, unpack and install? Hoping to save myself the price of buying the pre-installed drive. Thanks


You should be fine with that size. Their downloader unpacks as it goes so you won't need a lot of extra space. And SSDs used for samples can be almost full and run fine because you are just reading the information not read/writing it.


----------



## porrasm

The site says that the minimus requirements CPU is (for AMD) Amd Ryzen 5. I have an older CPU, AMD FX6300, I wonder how it will perform on that. It can run the Symphonic Series so BBCSO should run on it as well?


----------



## synthetic

Different player. Have you tried some of the free Labs instruments?


----------



## constaneum

pfmusic said:


> BBCSO strings sound amazing. This looks as if it's going to be Spitfires best product to date.
> 
> Looking forward to hearing the other sections!



indeed sounds amazing. Actually, i think the main selling point of this library is the various mic which allows you the flexibility to tweak the sounds to what you like or sound different from other ppl as different ppl have different preferences. The strings so far sounds amazing from the walkthrough. The legato sounds awesome...to me, it seems like performance legato. 

The overview video of the brass and woodwinds sound good as well but during the brass and woodwinds sessions, not much legato articulation is being shown. It's mainly showing other articulations. strange...would like to hear more during the next upcoming detailed walkthrough videos of the woodwinds and brass sections.


----------



## Zedcars

Hey Spitfire guys and gals,

I was wondering if there were any plans afoot 🦶 to release any more audio demos for this library. The ones on the site are great, but it’d be really useful to be able to hear some more with some exposed or solo lines so we can hear individual instruments more clearly in a musical context.

Thanks so much for the detailed videos you’ve been releasing, and for all your hard work on it thus far.


----------



## christianhenson

Yes, loads coming! At the moment every time we're given a new version we have to re-load every patch, once we have a release candidate we won't need to do this so we're just waiting on final versions. Indeed I have the latest version being shipped up to me as we speak so I can do a couple of contextuals.


----------



## Jerry Growl

Small question: is there an auto-gain option in the mic mix window? The more mics you add the louder the signal gets (usually). OT e.g. has an auto-gain option that let's you change the balance of the mics front to back without getting your mix out of control? ... especially helpful when using automation.


----------



## christianhenson

Something for us to look into definitely... There's a whole bunch of features we're writing in that exploit us having a dedicated plugin which are really exciting.


----------



## constaneum

christianhenson said:


> Something for us to look into definitely... There's a whole bunch of features we're writing in that exploit us having a dedicated plugin which are really exciting.



May we know what's the library size ? Until today there's no mention of library exact size. We're only guessing here and there. 600GB, 700GB and etc. For those of us who wanna buy without the SSD drive, it'll be good for us to know whether we have sufficient space or how to reorganise our libraries. Thanks


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

constaneum said:


> May we know what's the library size ? Until today there's no mention of library exact size. We're only guessing here and there. 600GB, 700GB and etc. For those of us who wanna buy without the SSD drive, it'll be good for us to know whether we have sufficient space or how to reorganise our libraries. Thanks



I was told by support that it's 600GB, I wanted to make sure I had enough room on my new T5.


----------



## jamieboo

Hello folks

This is all looking excellent!
I may well jump on this, but I'm just wondering whether I'll go for the SSD deal or not.
In terms of real world performance, what would the practical difference be between an SSD connected via USB3 and an SSD connected internally via SATA3?

Thanks


----------



## Ruffian Price

I/O latency. The performance difference isn't high with tasks like copying large files, but becomes significant when accessing random sectors fast (in benchmarks like the CrystalDiskMark you can see USB3 drives match performance with internal on the Sequential 500MB test and tank to ~10x slower on the Random 4kB test). I haven't had much issue keeping Kontakt libraries on USB3 drives though, only had to raise the preload buffer once.


----------



## PerryD

I would guess (after seeing SSD cloning in progress) that drives being shipped will contain final samples but probably not the latest Spitfire player. I have heard _Kontakt_ library updates involving samples can be costly, as NI charges the developers a significant amount. I suppose Spitfire having their own player would encourage more frequent updates.


----------



## jamieboo

Ruffian Price said:


> I/O latency. The performance difference isn't high with tasks like copying large files, but becomes significant when accessing random sectors fast (in benchmarks like the CrystalDiskMark you can see USB3 drives match performance with internal on the Sequential 500MB test and tank to ~10x slower on the Random 4kB test). I haven't had much issue keeping Kontakt libraries on USB3 drives though, only had to raise the preload buffer once.


So, theoretically, and even though you personally haven't run into issues with USB3, a SSD connected internally via SATA3 would be faster for the kind of usage that a sample library demands?


----------



## dzilizzi

jamieboo said:


> So, theoretically, and even though you personally haven't run into issues with USB3, a SSD connected internally via SATA3 would be faster for the kind of usage that a sample library demands?


Yes. Theoretically, it is faster. In real use? It might not matter. Similar to an HDD is slower than an SSD, but it may not matter depending on how you are using it.


----------



## Michael Stibor

Just to be clear, what is the advantage to getting their SSD as opposed to just buying my own? Wouldn't it be cheaper that way?


----------



## synkrotron

mikefrommontreal said:


> Just to be clear, what is the advantage to getting their SSD as opposed to just buying my own? Wouldn't it be cheaper that way?



Time and convenience, I would imagine.


----------



## Michael Stibor

synkrotron said:


> Time and convenience, I would imagine.


Oh, really. That's not a good reason to pay twice as much imo.


----------



## dzilizzi

mikefrommontreal said:


> Just to be clear, what is the advantage to getting their SSD as opposed to just buying my own? Wouldn't it be cheaper that way?


It says "Spitfire Audio" on it! Does that make it a collector's edition? 

It may be worth it if you have a bad connection and were planning on buying a new SSD for it anyway. For some, the cost is about the same, depending on where you live.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

mikefrommontreal said:


> Oh, really. That's not a good reason to pay twice as much imo.



You can get that drive for $99?


----------



## BassClef

mikefrommontreal said:


> Just to be clear, what is the advantage to getting their SSD as opposed to just buying my own? Wouldn't it be cheaper that way?



No advantage other than getting it early so you can use it day one. Otherwise just download it. If you need more storage space you can get an external 1TB ssd much cheaper than theirs. Or get a 2TB and have room to grow.


----------



## synkrotron

mikefrommontreal said:


> Oh, really. That's not a good reason to pay twice as much imo.


I agree.

And if memory serves it is an EVO drive and not the PRO.

Personally, if I go for this library I will be downloading and getting a 1tb PRO SSD


----------



## Zero&One

dzilizzi said:


> It may be worth it if you have a bad connection and were planning on buying a new SSD for it anyway. For some, the cost is about the same, depending on where you live.



Exactly my decision.
Internet is poor. Need a new drive, saved on promo to offset ssd price. SSD bay is full, so I'll use USB3. Day 1 insta-start.
And I get a delivery parcel from Spitfire. Who doesn't like a parcel?


----------



## constaneum

James H said:


> Exactly my decision.
> Internet is poor. Need a new drive, saved on promo to offset ssd price. SSD bay is full, so I'll use USB3. Day 1 insta-start.
> And I get a delivery parcel from Spitfire. Who doesn't like a parcel?



My internet speed is like 100Mbps. I've wanted to purchase with the drive but afraid of getting heavily taxed on import tax and etc. Dont wanna pay so much taxes. Zzzz


----------



## cqd

I'm hoping the download is good to go at midnight.. I know I'm being sort of awkward or something, but I'm working that Thursday, and if it's good to go at midnight it'll be down pretty much when I get back as opposed to just being started then..


----------



## synthetic

I picked up a WD Blue 2TB internal for $215 on the Amazon. Room for the next two libraries.


----------



## Portland

Well, I've pre-ordered the thing at last. Chose the SSD which should do just fine for my kind of minimalist usage. If the library proves to be as phenomenal as we're all hoping, then I might have to clear out some space on my internal NVMe, or just lay down the cash for an X5 thunderbolt drive. Either way, super excited...definitely an early Christmas this year.


----------



## jamieboo

Another query for those familiar with Spitfire products...

There's lots of mention of playability etc, which is great, but I have a slightly odd workflow: I enter my music note by note via mouse in the Cubase score editor (and then finesse it up afterwards with CC curves etc). I know it's a ridiculous method but it works for me, and my composition is better this way (it's not limited to what my hands find comfortable on a keyboard).

I use EW Hollywood Orchestra Diamond at the moment.
With EW legato patches, for example, the legato transitions are triggered when there are no gaps between notes. So I can enter, say, two consecutive minims in score editor - which will automatically 'abut' each other and so legato will trigger.

But with Spitfire, judging by the demos, different durations of legato/portamento are triggered in accordance with the length of overlap.
So in my example, I'd enter my two minims and then need to stretch them a bit in key editor to create an overlap.
I think!
A slightly more cumbersome process.

So I'm just wondering how well a Spitfire product like BBCSO will fit with my workflow?

Thanks


----------



## Sovereign

jamieboo said:


> But with Spitfire, judging by the demos, different durations of legato/portamento are triggered in accordance with the length of overlap.


Portamento is triggered by velocity, not note duration.


----------



## yellowtone

jamieboo said:


> Another query for those familiar with Spitfire products...
> 
> There's lots of mention of playability etc, which is great, but I have a slightly odd workflow: I enter my music note by note via mouse in the Cubase score editor (and then finesse it up afterwards with CC curves etc). I know it's a ridiculous method but it works for me, and my composition is better this way (it's not limited to what my hands find comfortable on a keyboard).
> 
> I use EW Hollywood Orchestra Diamond at the moment.
> With EW legato patches, for example, the legato transitions are triggered when there are no gaps between notes. So I can enter, say, two consecutive minims in score editor - which will automatically 'abut' each other and so legato will trigger.
> 
> But with Spitfire, judging by the demos, different durations of legato/portamento are triggered in accordance with the length of overlap.
> So in my example, I'd enter my two minims and then need to stretch them a bit in key editor to create an overlap.
> I think!
> A slightly more cumbersome process.
> 
> So I'm just wondering how well a Spitfire product like BBCSO will fit with my workflow?
> 
> Thanks



I'm interested in this as well, I'm just learning but using the manual entering method 70% of the time. I use BHCT and Albion V and I don't have any issues with the legato but I typically let the samples do what they do. That said, I do overlap the notes sometimes to get the right transition. I think the best person to comment on this would be @Ben E as his workflow is also manual and he uses a lot of Spitfire libraries.


----------



## babylonwaves

christianhenson said:


> Something for us to look into definitely... There's a whole bunch of features we're writing in that exploit us having a dedicated plugin which are really exciting.


@christianhenson - can you please consider to NOT use the Enter/Return key for the plug-in UI? You do that in HZ Strings and when used with Logic, you cannot start (or stop/rtz, depending on your KCs) the DAW with the Enter/Return key anymore when the plug-in is in focus. Now you might think an easy solution would be to just leave the UI closed. But that's kind of difficult when you rely on the articulation dropdown menu ...


----------



## jamieboo

Sovereign said:


> Portamento is triggered by velocity, not note duration.


Interesting. That's the same as EW then.
For some reason I had the impression that degree of overlap determined degree of legato/portamento.


----------



## Vik

Does anyone know if there's any manual control of portamento speed/length/volume in this library?


----------



## mikeh-375

Vik said:


> Does anyone know if there's any manual control of portamento speed/length/volume in this library?



good question Vik, I hate having to use uncontrollable port as it limits its use.


----------



## muk

Being more interested in sample libraries that work for concert music, rather than film or epic music, the BBC SO branding caught my interest. Unfortunately, what is currently known is not too encouraging. So far, it looks like it is going to be a library that will be tailored to film music.

The selection of articulations is one such sign. Paul mentioned that the most commonly used articulations are on page one. These include flautando, col legno, and con sordino. While these may be techniques that Christian and Paul use often in their writing, they are used very sparsely in classical music (con sordino is used rarely, the other two very rarely).

Then there are the demos posted. These are great pieces that all fall in the category of film/media/trailer. No demo of classical music posted, which is slightly odd considering the BBC SO branding.

Finally, and most importantly, going by the walkthrough video, the timbral range of the strings seems to be a bit limited. Right at the beginning of the video it looks like Paul is playing the first violins legato patch with both cc1 and vibrato cranked to the max. The timbre sounds like a forte at best:



I couldn’t find a true pianissimo passage in the videos either, nor a fade through the dynamics from zero to 127. This makes me fear that there are maybe only three dynamic layers, ranging from piano to forte.

I hope there will be more information on this in the future. Right now, I am not convinced that it will be both, a library for film/media _and _for concert music. Given the BBC SO monicker, it would be a pity if it the library served only for the former.


----------



## Ruffian Price

jamieboo said:


> Interesting. That's the same as EW then.
> For some reason I had the impression that degree of overlap determined degree of legato/portamento.


This is impossible to implement without a global track delay. The plugin can't see your piano roll - it receives MIDI events as they're played, so having received the Note On for your new note it only has its velocity (and the current state of your CCs) to go on until it gets the Note Off from your old note.


----------



## mikeh-375

We might be in the minority here @muk given our concert work requirements are different to the market SFA is in and yes, given the BBCSO's standing, I'd like to hear more classical mock-ups. The Blaney demo was promising and undoubtedly played to strengths so a few contrasting classical demos would be welcome.
I began to lose interest when chords where played with a full section patch. I'm still on the fence mind...not fallen off just yet. The dynamic range is disappointing so far though.


----------



## jamwerks

I've listened to all the videos several times and am pretty satisfied with the dynamic possibilities of the different instruments. Sounds like a true pianissimo was captured, and the mezzo-piano timbre seems correct (not just a loud PP). Not sure if they did that with 3 or 4 dynamic layers but in the end, who cares? It sounds great.

I was most "worried" about horns and Trumpets as those have a huge range a timbral nuance, but these sound good to me. Seems as if the PP to F is covered in the normal arts, then you use the "cuivré" (brassy) art for the over-the-top load stuff.


----------



## synthetic

I think they're working on classical demos. Christian posted the cover of some score, Planets maybe? Still kinda filmy but they're trying  

It appears that the expression slider is at max when they demo these, so that you can hear the loud and soft layers over laptop speakers/Youtube. In practice you might ride those two together or link them. 

What articulations are missing for Classical composition? If you're looking for more extended techniques, check out their LCO. (Which I'm hoping will blend well with BBC.)


----------



## yellowtone

synthetic said:


> What articulations are missing for Classical composition?



I'm curious about this as well. I hope to compose more Classical-style works, vs. film, but as I'm still new to this I'd be very interested to know which articulations would be critical? I'm curious if these articulations are available with other SA libraries (SCS and SSS in particular). Any concerns with the brass or ww arts too?


----------



## mikeh-375

jamwerks said:


> ....... Not sure if they did that with 3 or 4 dynamic layers but in the end, *who cares?* It sounds great.



Me and probably @muk for definite, there might well be more.... . 4 true layers makes a difference but 5 would be better still.

@synthetic,
There are plenty of things that can't be done well - just try mocking up Daphnis and Chloe and the fabulous string divisi's. The dynamic layers are an issue for me given the expressive timbral breadth exploited in concert musics orchestration (and the composing thereof). Re articulations, more variants on length of notes (is the time machine in the new plug-in?)and more varied accents, better programmable vib of differing intensities and I still haven't found multiple stops for strings that are fully programmable and convincing and flexible enough to be bowed fast or slow and arpeggiated quickly, but now I'm being greedy and undoubtedly impractical..one can dream though...right?


----------



## Adam Takacs

synthetic said:


> I think they're working on classical demos. Christian posted the cover of some score, Planets maybe? Still kinda filmy but they're trying
> 
> It appears that the expression slider is at max when they demo these, so that you can hear the loud and soft layers over laptop speakers/Youtube. In practice you might ride those two together or link them.
> 
> What articulations are missing for Classical composition? If you're looking for more extended techniques, check out their LCO. (Which I'm hoping will blend well with BBC.)


It would be so nice to have various portatos for example. Not so difficult sampling process but a very useful and wonderful articulation


----------



## jamieboo

Ruffian Price said:


> This is impossible to implement without a global track delay. The plugin can't see your piano roll - it receives MIDI events as they're played, so having received the Note On for your new note it only has its velocity (and the current state of your CCs) to go on until it gets the Note Off from your old note.



Excellent! So, it sounds like it will fit with my current workflow!
Thanks for the clarification folks.

Also...
I too am interested in a more 'Classical/Concert' orchestra (or film style if it is the more symphonic end of scoring). Ideally I'd like a library that could handle Stravinsky, Rimsky Korsakov, Debussy and Holst, plus J Williams and Korngold.
I have EW Hollywood Diamond at the moment, I'm very excited by BBCSO, but I'm going to wait to hear more classical demos before I even think about committing.


----------



## Sovereign

muk said:


> Finally, and most importantly, going by the walkthrough video, the timbral range of the strings seems to be a bit limited. Right at the beginning of the video it looks like Paul is playing the first violins legato patch with both cc1 and vibrato cranked to the max. The timbre sounds like a forte at best:


This is something I noticed as well and was going to post about. I too doubt it goes above forte. Which might explain why questions regarding the recorded dynamics have been avoided so far.


----------



## muk

synthetic said:


> I think they're working on classical demos.



Cool. That's great to hear. Looking forward to hearing these.



synthetic said:


> What articulations are missing for Classical composition?



Some semi-short articulations are important for concert music. Portatos, as @tadam wrote, and maybe two different lengths of détaché ideally. Some dynamic articulations too, like fortepiano, sforzato, sforzatissimo etc. For woodwinds and brass it is the same. They don't have staccato, only staccatissimo, for example. Keep in mind that BBC SO's list of articulations is nice, especially considering the price.

The timbral range of the strings seems to be limited though. As written, they don't seem to go above forte, and for the lower dynamics I am unsure. Will be interesting to hear a slow fade from 0 to 127 once it has been released. For concert music a lack of timbral range would be a limitation.


----------



## Adam Takacs

I'm really looking forward to it and probably buying it, but it would be great to have a truly Symphony Orchestra from Spitfire Audio, instead of another "Cinematic orchestra".


----------



## mikeh-375

^^^looks like we are on the same page @muk


----------



## CT

I'm probably repeating myself, but while this plugin likely won't do everything just the way I'd like it to from a "classical" standpoint, I do think it's already easily outclassing all of the other partial solutions out there. 

The disclaimer is that I'm more interested in something that sounds satisfying and musical than I am in something with a dozen sloppy dynamic layers or that sounds like it was recorded in a closet.


----------



## Denkii

While it may be true that it might lack ff and above, at least you could beef it up by bringing in the hyped mix and go from there.

For me personally, dynamic range will be more interesting once we have a look at the brass section.


----------



## jamwerks

This library isn't lacking any arts needed for traditional (classical) work. For that you'd proàbably be using mainly legato and short notes.

The strings sounded lovely. I was a bit disappointed however with the harmonics for the basses (and probably the others). Only the higher artificial harmonics were done, leaving out the even more used natural harmonics, which would include the lower strings stopped at half string, giving the octave above that open string. Orchestrators who know their craft use these tones, usually as a lesser concrete version of a longer note (Ravel used them frequently). That would have been just 5 or 6 more notes to sample per instrument. I've complained about that here before, apparently to no avail, oh well ! BTW OT does sample the harmonics correctly iinm.

I'm not clear if here there are two separate pizz's for the celli & basses (secco and "let ring" versions). The strings on the basses being so long, the pizz's can ring-out for several seconds, and it's nice to have that option, that seeming no dev ever does (except maybe SsS, I'll have to check). Couldn't tell if the pizz's had release triggers or just faded out. Not a deal breaker, but would be nice for whatever "Pro" version might be coming!

And iinm, the art management capabilities of the SF player seems to have excluded the "group" feature, which would be a small step backwards imo. VSL seemed to have copied the great SF Kontakt gui when they did the Synchron player "Tree" function. That yeilds ultimate art management flexibility.


----------



## Michael Stibor

The more I listen to their walkthrough videos, the more intrigued I am by the sound. It almost sounds a little squished, or mushy (that's my professional terminology). At first that put me off, but to be honest, I prefer its more 'vintage' sound the more I listen to it. I use CSS and CSB a lot and while I still love it, sometimes it's a little TOO cinematic, or a little TOO clean for my preference.
But yeah, will be interesting to see how flexible this library is. Some more classical style demos will make it or break it for me.


----------



## Architekton

mikeh-375 said:


> ^^^looks like we are on the same page @muk



Than look for other library.


----------



## madfloyd

I too hope the library performs well on classical music like Stravinsky, Debussy, Holst, etc.


----------



## Adam Takacs

In the Bernard Herrmann Composer Toolkit there are two extremely useful patches on the high strings: Short 0'5 and Short 1'0. 4xRRs are available and with the timed short artic RTs function it's possible to write very convincing musical lines.
These patches also work very well if you blend with the normal sustains, because add a great, smooth, not too pronounced but pure attack to sustained notes with RRs.

So I miss the Short 0'5 and Short 1'0 a lot on the BBC SO Strings Section.

As I see, the BBC SO string sustain notes don't have RRs, Marcato either. Blending sustain with staccato is not my favorite solution to add attack. Short 0'5 and Short 1'0 would do this job very well.

These patches were sampled with 3 dynamic layers, not chromatically in BHCT, so it's
not a very big deal in terms of work and data, but musically... very, very useful.

I think these articulations would have added a lot to the musicality of the BBCSO's strings.


----------



## Fleer

madfloyd said:


> I too hope the library performs well on classical music like Stravinsky, Debussy, Holst, etc.


JS Bach. There can be only one.


----------



## mikeh-375

Fleer said:


> JS Bach. There can be only one.



Bach sounds good on kazoos...


----------



## Fleer

Yep. Bach sounds good on anything.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

muk said:


> Finally, and most importantly, going by the walkthrough video, the timbral range of the strings seems to be a bit limited. Right at the beginning of the video it looks like Paul is playing the first violins legato patch with both cc1 and vibrato cranked to the max. The timbre sounds like a forte at best.



That's what bothers me, too. It's the same with Studio Strings (Pro), and I think it's common with Spitfire string libraries in general. I don't know for sure, I'm only guessing: the legatos have less velocity layers than the sustains, the latter go louder.

While I really like the overall sound and agility of the strings, there are two things I don't like:

The legatos (and sustains) only go up to the high C. Is this correct? Is there an option for extending the range?
I'm looking forward to the separate legato walkthrough video in order to get more information on what's going on. It's great to have a kind of "performance legato", but, for me, the faster passages doesn't sound realistic, they sound like only short notes. I think short notes are layered on the legatos, which is great for the attacks, but not for faster playing. Maybe it's a just a velocity-related thing so that Paul played at higher velocites resulting in more pronounced (marcato-ish) transitions.


----------



## porrasm

Does anyone know if the plugin supports purging unused samples like Kontakt? Not just purging a single articulations but individual notes within them.


----------



## Noeticus

How about...

Spitfire Audio introduces the SPITFIRE AUDIO ARTICULATION DATABASE.

An open online database where people can request articulations that they are looking for, and also a database where people can see what articulations Spitfire already has available.

By the year 2029 you will be able type in what articulation you want and then wait a few minutes while the "Spitfire Bohemian Online Orchestra" creates the bespoke articulation for you.


----------



## synthetic

tadam said:


> So I miss the Short 0'5 and Short 1'0 a lot on the BBC SO Strings Section.



Buy both! And two others. Then repeat in a few months or years.


----------



## synthetic

Noeticus said:


> How about...
> 
> Spitfire Audio introduces the SPITFIRE AUDIO ARTICULATION DATABASE.



Link isn't working. 

 

Or how about, you write the music you want and submit it! Then they sample it and send it to you. Wait, that's just source direct with extra steps.


----------



## Adam Takacs

synthetic said:


> Buy both! And two others. Then repeat in a few months or years.


That's a brilliant idea! Problem seem to be solved! Thank you so much!


----------



## Adam Takacs

Noeticus said:


> How about...
> 
> Spitfire Audio introduces the SPITFIRE AUDIO ARTICULATION DATABASE.
> 
> An open online database where people can request articulations that they are looking for, and also a database where people can see what articulations Spitfire already has available.
> 
> By the year 2029 you will be able type in what articulation you want and then wait a few minutes while the "Spitfire Bohemian Online Orchestra" creates the bespoke articulation for you.


The point is not articulations what people want, but articulations that are important in classical music.


----------



## coprhead6

I had finally splurged on the full Spitfire Symphony Orchestra package just before this was announced.... 
Can someone please make me feel better about my purchase? :/


----------



## mikeh-375

Architekton said:


> Than look for other library.



That sounds a bit tetchy....  (I do have most of the other libraries available btw).


----------



## muk

Seems like we are in the same boat @Pixelpoet1985. These are exactly the two points that did not convince me so far: the timbral range of the strings, and the fast legatos. All the rest sounds really nice.


----------



## constaneum

coprhead6 said:


> I had finally splurged on the full Spitfire Symphony Orchestra package just before this was announced....
> Can someone please make me feel better about my purchase? :/



it has that air lyndhurst r_oom sound which you can't find elsewhere. there....feel much better already? hahaha_


----------



## Geoff Grace

coprhead6 said:


> I had finally splurged on the full Spitfire Symphony Orchestra package just before this was announced....
> Can someone please make me feel better about my purchase? :/


You ought to be able to make yourself feel better about your purchase within minutes after firing it up. It's still all the things it was when you bought it: top session players in a great room, sampled with care by Spitfire Audio. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## constaneum

Geoff Grace said:


> You ought to be able to make yourself feel better about your purchase within minutes after firing it up. It's still all the things it was when you bought it: top session players in a great room, sampled with care by Spitfire Audio.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff



one thing i felt about the Symphony series (my own personal view) and the Chamber strings libraries are these libraries to me are considered as experimental. They were the big things back then when they've started orchestra sampling....Before they were released and known as Symphony series, they were released per instrument section and then you have what mural strings, BML Phalanx series an etc. Then they constantly experiment new things and released as updates...such as the performance legato patch. Once everything seems solid, they've repackaged everything as Symphony series.

With all these knowledge gained throughout the years and as they've improved progressively over the years, here there are, BBC orchestral and the Studio Series are born. BBC orchestral may or may not sound better than Symphony series....It all depends on the quality of the recordings and the players recruited for the recording sessions. Symphony may even sound better than BBC but the only thing with Symphony is lack of flexibility in terms of choosing the mics. Not everyone is happy with Air Lyndhurst's wetness in Symphony series and there's nothing much you can do to control that sound. It's roomy...either you take it or leave it. On the other hand, BBC you can have it as dry as the Studio series and you can make it as wet as Air Lyndhurst with either its own mic since they offer lots and lots of mic options or use 3rd party reverb to simulate Air Lyndhurst hall


----------



## idematoa




----------



## Adam Takacs




----------



## jamwerks

Sounds great ! But hasn't the pan been reversed here? The Horns sound panned right and Trumpets on the left...


----------



## Symfoniq

Nice tone, but I'm surprised how quiet these instruments sound with the mod wheel maxed out.


----------



## cqd

Why is he playing chords with the solos?


----------



## cqd

It's going to be 4 different plug ins by the looks of things?..
That's good anyway.. not too gone on the preset scrolling/saving in the spitfire plugin..


----------



## SpitfireSupport

cqd said:


> It's going to be 4 different plug ins by the looks of things?..


Single plugin!


----------



## mralmostpopular

muk said:


> Seems like we are in the same boat @Pixelpoet1985. These are exactly the two points that did not convince me so far: the timbral range of the strings, and the fast legatos. All the rest sounds really nice.



I’m a little concerned about the fast legato myself. It sounds like notes may be slightly overlapping each other on fast passages, which sounds unrealistic. I noticed it in the Blaney demo. The runs sounded kind of programmed.

I’m hoping for a good demo of the library doing runs. The rest of the library sounds fantastic. It has a certain separation between the various instruments that I haven’t really heard much from other libraries. Overall, I think it’s going to be a great product to have.


----------



## Scamper

Symfoniq said:


> Nice tone, but I'm surprised how quiet these instruments sound with the mod wheel maxed out.



I'd think it's to preserve the consistency between sections, since, according to the walkthrough, the strings also aren't putting out a high level and the brass is quite a bit further back.


----------



## Jonas Hallstrom

Sounds good but, yeah panning seems to be reversed.


----------



## prodigalson

Did they take the video down? I could have sworn I saw it on YouTube but now its gone and the link posted above doesn’t work. Damn it, was very much looking forward to the brass video.


----------



## Denkii

Maybe they realized the panning is reversed and they fix it before reuploading?


----------



## Zedcars

Close enough, damn it!

*Two Weeeeeeeks!*​
Compilation of “Two Weeks’s”:



Original Total Recall “Two Weeks”:



Did I mention, it’s only two weeks to go...?  





__





Free Online Countdown Timer for Christmas, vacation and other events







www.arewethere.yt


----------



## Denkii

Pfff. We won't even make it to 5000 posts.
Spitfire should really up their marketing game


----------



## vdk-john

Denkii said:


> Maybe they realized the panning is reversed and they fix it before reuploading?



Yeah when I watched it a the beginning it was clipping on the right channel looking at Paul's meter but I could hear it clip on my left monitor so I also wondered that


----------



## CT

The audio was flipped, and I thought I noticed a contrabass trombone playing when it was supposed to be a contrabass tuba. Taken down for a little more editing, probably.

As for the lower levels, and splitting the top _cuivre_ layer into its own patch, I actually really like that. Maybe it has to do with the BBCSO being, well, a symphony orchestra, rather than a session group. They don't necessarily play with the more hyped dynamics that have become common in media music recording, and I'm all for that in this seemingly more classically orchestral context. 

The warmth and blend that allows is well worth it, as evidenced by many recordings, or by what Cinesamples did with 90's Retro Trumpets.


----------



## staypuft

Was it mentioned anywhere which dynamics were recorded? For USD 999 I was wondering where corners were cut.


----------



## Adam Takacs

staypuft said:


> Was it mentioned anywhere which dynamics were recorded? For USD 999 I was wondering where corners were cut.


unfortunately there is no information on that


----------



## widekeys

staypuft said:


> Was it mentioned anywhere which dynamics were recorded? For USD 999 I was wondering where corners were cut.


If you watch the voice count in the walk through videos, right at the start of a phrase that he plays, you can see the number of layers used for the patch. The long brass patches have a voice count of 3 plus the cuivre makes 4 dynamic layers which should be good to capture the various timbral changes. 
For the strings it will be harder to estimate the layers since the instruments have vibrato control. If we assume a recorded nonvibrato and vibrato per layer we may estimate the dynamic layer count by simply dividing by 2. Of course the staccato attacks add to the voice count so I'd use the sustain showcase for this instead of the legato patches. However since string sections do have a pretty homogeneous timbre across dynamic layers I'd be ok with 3.


----------



## dzilizzi

staypuft said:


> Was it mentioned anywhere which dynamics were recorded? For USD 999 I was wondering where corners were cut.


I kind of got the impression that the BBC SO was maybe subsidizing a bit of this? They said it was a collaboration?

I could be wrong, of course.


----------



## BassClef

Agreed. I’ve thought from the first announcement that the BBC had skin in this game!


----------



## Alex Fraser

dzilizzi said:


> I kind of got the impression that the BBC SO was maybe subsidizing a bit of this? They said it was a collaboration?
> 
> I could be wrong, of course.


It's something along the lines of a joint venture. Both the BBC (commercial) and Spitfire have put money into the pot to pay for the studio, musicians etc. Presumably the profits are split too.


----------



## Adam Takacs

widekeys said:


> If you watch the voice count in the walk through videos, right at the start of a phrase that he plays, you can see the number of layers used for the patch. The long brass patches have a voice count of 3 plus the cuivre makes 4 dynamic layers which should be good to capture the various timbral changes.
> For the strings it will be harder to estimate the layers since the instruments have vibrato control. If we assume a recorded nonvibrato and vibrato per layer we may estimate the dynamic layer count by simply dividing by 2. Of course the staccato attacks add to the voice count so I'd use the sustain showcase for this instead of the legato patches. However since string sections do have a pretty homogeneous timbre across dynamic layers I'd be ok with 3.



Great observation!

So for example, here is only one note and the value of the voice counter is 6



On that given note there is the portamento sample at the beginning, 1 non-vib, 1 vib layer, 1 release so there are only 2 dynamic layers on the legato patches?

Or the plugin is able to respond so quickly to unused layers that it takes out of memory?
Maybe I misunderstand it, I don't know.

It would be great a comment from Spitfire about dynamic layers of legato, long, staccato, spiccato, at least.


----------



## widekeys

tadam said:


> Great observation!
> 
> So for example, here is only one note and the value of the voice counter is 6
> 
> 
> 
> On that given note there is the portamento sample at the beginning, 1 non-vib, 1 vib layer, 1 release so there are only 2 dynamic layers on the legato patches?
> 
> Or the plugin is able to respond so quickly to unused layers that it takes out of memory?
> Maybe I misunderstand it, I don't know.
> 
> It would be great a comment from Spitfire about dynamic layers of legato, long, staccato, spiccato, at least.



I'm just assuming they trigger the sustain samples for a played note all at the same time and release or legato when necessary, not taking into account the current relevant CC value which is how East West seem to do it. At ~50 seconds it shows 5 voices. So maybe 3 dynamic layers and 2 of them have crossfadeable vibrato?


----------



## Adam Takacs

widekeys said:


> I'm just assuming they trigger the sustain samples for a played note all at the same time, not taking into account the current relevant CC value which is how East West seem to do it. At ~50 seconds it shows 5 voices. So maybe 3 dynamic layers and 2 of them have crossfadeable vibrato?


When Paul starts to play the normal long, he plays a triad if I can see well and the counter shows 12 voices. The number of layers of dynamics from this is not clear to me. But yes, it makes sense: "So maybe 3 dynamic layers and 2 of them have crossfadeable vibrato?"


----------



## jamwerks

That's all pertinent info, but the most final test of course comes from our ears.


----------



## muk

Listening through the videos once more, it sure sounds like the number of velocity layers is on the low side throughout. Timbrally the strings go from piano to forte, but not above or below. That is audible not only in the legato demo, but in the spiccato demo as well I am afraid. In the brass video, it was the same. Some very beautiful sounds in the piano range that will be great to have. But the lowest and the highest dynamics seemed to be missing. To my ears the cuivré articulation didn’t help, as it, curiously, didn’t go above forte either. I can’t double check until the video is re-uploaded though.
So far, I am most taken by the bits of the woodwinds that we heard, and the timpani as well. These sounded fantastic. Some of the brass was beautiful. So, it looks to me like there will be plenty of gorgeous material in this library. However, going by the walkthroughs, they did not capture enough dynamic layers and short articulations for me personally. Mind you, the amount that is included is still stunning, especially considering the price. What’s there sounds top notch too. However, if it was the only library I had, I feel that its limitations would be frustrating to me.
If the woodwinds and percussion are all that they promise to be by the bits I heard so far, I might get the library just for those sections, plus some of the brass.


----------



## Adam Takacs




----------



## Adam Takacs

muk said:


> Listening through the videos once more, it sure sounds like the number of velocity layers is on the low side throughout. Timbrally the strings go from piano to forte, but not above or below. That is audible not only in the legato demo, but in the spiccato demo as well I am afraid. In the brass video, it was the same. Some very beautiful sounds in the piano range that will be great to have. But the lowest and the highest dynamics seemed to be missing. To my ears the cuivré articulation didn’t help, as it, curiously, didn’t go above forte either. I can’t double check until the video is re-uploaded though.
> So far, I am most taken by the bits of the woodwinds that we heard, and the timpani as well. These sounded fantastic. Some of the brass was beautiful. So, it looks to me like there will be plenty of gorgeous material in this library. However, going by the walkthroughs, they did not capture enough dynamic layers and short articulations for me personally. Mind you, the amount that is included is still stunning, especially considering the price. What’s there sounds top notch too. However, if it was the only library I had, I feel that its limitations would be frustrating to me.
> If the woodwinds and percussion are all that they promise to be by the bits I heard so far, I might get the library just for those sections, plus some of the brass.


Brass walktrough is online again.


----------



## Zedcars

muk said:


> Listening through the videos once more, it sure sounds like the number of velocity layers is on the low side throughout. Timbrally the strings go from piano to forte, but not above or below. That is audible not only in the legato demo, but in the spiccato demo as well I am afraid. In the brass video, it was the same. Some very beautiful sounds in the piano range that will be great to have. But the lowest and the highest dynamics seemed to be missing. To my ears the cuivré articulation didn’t help, as it, curiously, didn’t go above forte either. I can’t double check until the video is re-uploaded though.
> So far, I am most taken by the bits of the woodwinds that we heard, and the timpani as well. These sounded fantastic. Some of the brass was beautiful. So, it looks to me like there will be plenty of gorgeous material in this library. However, going by the walkthroughs, they did not capture enough dynamic layers and short articulations for me personally. Mind you, the amount that is included is still stunning, especially considering the price. What’s there sounds top notch too. However, if it was the only library I had, I feel that its limitations would be frustrating to me.
> If the woodwinds and percussion are all that they promise to be by the bits I heard so far, I might get the library just for those sections, plus some of the brass.


BBCSO Pro? 🤞

Although that might hurt the collaborative approach. I would definitely be interested in either an expanded Pro version, or future Expantions. I think it sounds great, but I really need extremes of dynamics. I do have other libraries that could compensate but was looking forward to the plug and play approach of this library.


----------



## muk

tadam said:


> Brass walktrough is online again.



Yeah, I can confirm my first impressions. If you listen to this section it's rather apparent. It's the long cuivré, cc1 at 127. Sounds like a forte to me:


----------



## Alex Fraser

I don't believe making the "ultimate mockup tool" has been Spitfire's goal for some time now and the BBSO seems to be following that approach with the emphasis on mics etc.

And actually, I think Spitfire are right to do so. I'm only making an assumption but I bet most "real world" use cases for orchestral libraries right now is in some sort of media project, mixed with other sounds and musical styles. There must be a vanishingly small number of users who actually need to create ultra realistic mockups on a daily basis.

Whilst my daily driver is library music, when I do get to score a short film and require orchestral sounds, there's never the time or need to break out every voice and fettle 8 dynamic layers. That's why stuff like Albion ONE is so popular. I think that's the area where this library is aimed: Composers who want an easy to use orchestra on hand when a project requires some orchestra juice, hence the emphasis on common articulations, mics and surround rather than 13 dynamic layers and 47 round robins.

That said, in the right hands (Andy Blaney) this library is capable of some devastatingly good "pure orchestra" music. I reckon BBCSO is going to hit the sweet spot for an enormous amount of people. That Spitfire rabble know what they're doing.


----------



## Sovereign

For me the absence of FF would be significant, it's not a dynamic which is rarely used and it has nothing to do with modern scores either. And the lack of it would - to me - defeat the purpose of the library as a "universal starting point". If BBCSO averages around 3 layers, we would hardly need 8 (or 13) layers to get FF, Alex. No one is asking for that. Imagine telling a composer you can't write for very loud. Albion should hardly be the measure here, I doubt Albion is popular precisely because it has a tough time doing loud stuff.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Sovereign said:


> For me the absence of FF would be significant, it's not a dynamic which is rarely used and it has nothing to do with modern scores either. And the lack of it would - to me - defeat the purpose of the library as a "universal starting point". If BBCSO averages around 3 layers, we would hardly need 8 (or 13) layers to get FF, Alex. No one is asking for that. Imagine telling a composer you can't write for very loud. Albion should hardly be the measure here, I doubt Albion is popular precisely because it has a tough time doing loud stuff.


When I say 13 layers, I'm being facetious - hopefully that was clear. 

I don't wish to start pin-pointing what BBCSO can (or can't do) - I haven't listened deeply enough to the videos to know either way. The wider point I'm trying to make is that the library probably won't cover every dynamic base and articulation by design. As always, it's up to the user to decide if his or her bases are covered. I'm sure VI control is ready and waiting to pick apart all the details.


----------



## Ruffian Price

So THAT'S what the problem was!


----------



## Sovereign

Alex Fraser said:


> When I say 13 layers, I'm being facetious - hopefully that was clear.


Obviously, but let us be honest here, it is one extra dynamic they would need. Just one! I'd rather have a few less articulations (to hell with the bartok pizz or the sul tastos) and better dynamics. The whole cuivre articulation as a separate patch is also weird.



> I don't wish to start pin-pointing what BBCSO can (or can't do) - I haven't listened deeply enough to the videos to know either way. The wider point I'm trying to make is that the library probably won't cover every dynamic base and articulation by design. As always, it's up to the user to decide if his or her bases are covered. I'm sure VI control is ready and waiting to pick apart all the details.


I'm still getting it as it sounds great, but at this day and age not having ff in a modern library would be a sin as far as I am concerned. Covering all the most-used dynamics is a necessity. Owning BBCSO should not make me need to use other libraries! Wasn't that the whole point? I'm guessing this is also the reason the SFA guys are sidestepping the issue of clearing up which dynamics were recorded.


----------



## jamwerks

Given the amount of content here (essentially 6 libraries), for 750 euros, it's just not possible to do 4-5 velocity layers. If BBCSO doesn't do it for you, Synchron strings has 5-8 dynamic layers, but costs about 5 times as much.


----------



## Mihkel Zilmer

Sovereign said:


> I'm still getting it as it sounds great, but at this day and age not having ff in a modern library would be a sin as far as I am concerned.



Based on a lot of productions I hear these days, I'd say a number of customers would be happy if _ff_ is the *only* dynamic


----------



## Alex Fraser

I can't really wade too far into the debate about the library specifics as I've only skimmed the videos, stopping occasionally to mutter "that sounds nice." 😎

I'll only say that everyone's individual idea of what any given library "should do" is always the core of most arguments. Really, all we can do is is listen and decide if the sound and features on offer match up to what our composer goals are and buy accordingly. I'm absolutely not referring to anyone in this thread, but it's this reality that's often ignored on the forum.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Well. Why don't any developers make round robins for sustain, legato patches and other long articulations? Why only for short ones? Can anyone answer?


----------



## Sovereign

jamwerks said:


> Given the amount of content here (essentially 6 libraries), for 750 euros, it's just not possible to do 4-5 velocity layers. If BBCSO doesn't do it for you, Synchron strings has 5-8 dynamic layers, but costs about 5 times as much.


I guess that would depends on a lot of things we don't know (such as the nature of the agreement with the BBC and costs). And it also depends on how you spread time and budget. As I wrote just a moment ago, I'd rather have a more accurate representation of dynamics. Not more articulations which are rarely used. And you don't need Synchron level of detail to include ff.


----------



## Ruffian Price

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Well. Why don't any developers make round robins for sustain, legato patches and other long articulations? Why only for short ones? Can anyone answer?


It does occur from time to time. 4xRR for longer marcatos is fairly common, Spitfire's Alternative Solo Strings has 2xRR for the longs, 8dio Adagio introduced recorded legato roundrobin and Embertone's woodwinds do borrowed round robin for legatos (using transposed samples for the same interval transition between neighboring notes). What it comes down to for the most part is maintaining a balance between your target mockup realism (where the machine gun effect isn't usually much of an issue outside of short articulations) and the library cost and system requirements.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

And what's about repeated notes? Ability to perform a rearticulation
of the same note. I am watching many developers for some reason ignore this important and integral part in musical instruments. This should be basic. In the case of strings this must be achieved by the players performing a re-bowing of the same note. For brass and woodwinds, it is a re-tonguing of the
same note. The only place you can see it on the market is the Cinematic Studio Series. All instruments in the Cinematic Studio Series range include this feature, across multiple dynamics and with 3 x Round Robins. Again, instead of a scripted emulation, you’re actually hearing a sampled performance.

It's a shame that in other libraries, and also excellent spitfire libraries, this function is missed🙁


----------



## Adam Takacs

Sovereign said:


> Obviously, but let us be honest here, it is one extra dynamic they would need. Just one! I'd rather have a few less articulations (to hell with the bartok pizz or the sul tastos) and better dynamics. The whole cuivre articulation as a separate patch is also weird.
> 
> I'm still getting it as it sounds great, but at this day and age not having ff in a modern library would be a sin as far as I am concerned. Covering all the most-used dynamics is a necessity. Owning BBCSO should not make me need to use other libraries! Wasn't that the whole point? I'm guessing this is also the reason the SFA guys are sidestepping the issue of clearing up which dynamics were recorded.


"Owning BBCSO should not make me need to use other libraries!"
That's the point exactly! And that's why I'm a little sad.


----------



## jaketanner

Holy Hell...I had to stop watching the brass walkthrough half way because I was getting really disappointed that I won't be able to take advantage of any of their sales for this library any time soon...but man, the brass is awesome and exactly what I was looking for in terms of sound. So far, if you use nothing else besides strings and brass, the price for this library is well worth it...it's like getting the rest for free.

Great work @Spitfire Team


----------



## Sovereign

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> And what's about repeated notes? Ability to perform a rearticulation
> of the same note. I am watching many developers for some reason ignore this important and integral part in musical instruments. This should be basic.


The ability to re-articulate a note is especially important for phrasing a melody. But there are plenty libraries that support this feature. Cinesamples does it, Audio Imperia does it, VSL libraries have this, just to name a few. I've emphasised this before, in this regard BBCSO would not be more 'revolutionary' than say Hollywood Strings which is now a decade(?) old and lacks that feature too.


----------



## Gil

Hello,
I was wondering if Spitfire or other third-parties companies plan to develop bridges to notation software for this product (i.e. Sibelius soundest and/or Dorico 3 expression maps)?


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Close enough, damn it!
> 
> *Two Weeeeeeeks!*​
> Compilation of “Two Weeks’s”:
> 
> 
> 
> Original Total Recall “Two Weeks”:
> 
> 
> 
> Did I mention, it’s only two weeks to go...?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Free Online Countdown Timer for Christmas, vacation and other events
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.arewethere.yt




Normally I think they have tended to make new releases available in the afternoon of the day in question, which would be exactly two weeks from now! Maybe they will break with tradition with this one but we shall see. Much refreshing of e-mails will take place on the 24th


----------



## J-M

Mihkel Zilmer said:


> Based on a lot of productions I hear these days, I'd say a number of customers would be happy if _ff_ is the *only* dynamic



I feel attacked.


----------



## Zedcars

MrLinssi said:


> I feel attacked.


Why, is that your forte?

...I’ll see myself out.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Why, is that your forte?
> 
> ...I’ll see myself out.


<Hands Zedcars a medal.>
You win the internet today, sir.


----------



## constaneum

I still see the main selling point of this library is the sonic quality of the sampled sounds as well as mic options offered. Not on how many RR, dynamic layers or what.


----------



## J-M

Zedcars said:


> Why, is that your forte?
> 
> ...I’ll see myself out.



Dude...nice.
<Hands out another medal>


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Sovereign said:


> The ability to re-articulate a note is especially important for phrasing a melody. But there are plenty libraries that support this feature. Cinesamples does it, Audio Imperia does it, VSL libraries have this, just to name a few.


Did not hear anything about it, you need to check and make sure. How and where does it work in Cinesamples and Audio Imperia?


----------



## Sovereign

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Did not hear anything about it, you need to check and make sure. How and where does it work in Cinesamples and Audio Imperia?


Not sure if it is mentioned on the site somewhere, but it is in the manual: "The Legato Retrigger Delay knob allows you to control how long after you release a key the release sample will play. This makes it easier to perform the “retrigger legato sample,” performed by lifting up and then pressing the same note quickly. This is an actual sample of the section re-bowing the same note."

That's from Cinesamples, AI works in a similar fashion.


----------



## Adam Takacs

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Did not hear anything about it, you need to check and make sure. How and where does it work in Cinesamples and Audio Imperia?


I can only confirm it for cinestrings solo, but I think the ability of rebowing is one of the strongest part of the library. Very useful function to write expressive parts on the first violin especially.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

tadam said:


> I can only confirm it for cinestrings solo, but I think the ability of rebowing is one of the strongest part of the library. Very useful function to write expressive parts.


Сool! I will need to check this library.


----------



## Adam Takacs

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Сool! I will need to check this library.


I don't use it very often, but there is simply no better solution for certain parts, except live recording.
1st Violin with vibrato xfade is amazing. (both in musical- and recording quality)


----------



## jonvog

Do you guys have any idea if the multi-tongue feature is tempo synced? I hope so, otherwise I guess it easily could sound odd, don't you think?


----------



## Adam Takacs

jonvog said:


> Do you guys have any idea if the multi-tongue feature is tempo synced? I hope so, otherwise I guess it easily could sound odd, don't you think?


I'm almost sure it's not tempo synced


----------



## CT

Sovereign said:


> The whole cuivre articulation as a separate patch is also weird.



If nothing else, it makes the crossfade of the longs much cleaner, since that's the most likely transition to stick out. 

Besides, how often do you see a brass part rapidly swell into _cuivre_, as opposed to isolated instructions to play that way? Seems sensible as a separate articulation to me.


----------



## madfloyd

From Paul's latest walkthrough of the brass I get the feeling that everything sounds too polite, like there was a focus on sounding pretty at the expense of any aggressive sounds. Can you really express a mood that was 'mean' or ballsy without some more in-your-face sounds?


----------



## Noeticus

The Spitfire BBCSO Brass demo sounded great! But, I still love AudioBro's Modern Scoring Brass, and it has ppp through fff ...





__





Modern Scoring Brass







audiobro.com


----------



## Piano & Strings

For my current orchestral library, I use symbolic links, or symlinks (Windows), so that only the main mics need to be on SSD, since this is what I use for writing 95% of the time. I am curious if @christianhenson can shed light on whether the sample folder hierarchy is such that a single mic sample folder can easily be placed on a separate harddrive? If so, am I correct in my math that with the Spitfire lossless compression, the "Mix 1 (Full)" sample folder would weigh in at around 30gb (600gb ÷ 20)? 

Thanks!

Marc


----------



## jonvog

tadam said:


> I'm almost sure it's not tempo synced


Hmm. So this articulation seems to be of limited use in every context but rubato and a tempo accidentaly matching the tempo the multi-tongues were recorded in. On the other hand one can propably always use the regular shorts to fake a multi-tongue articulation... 
I am concerned about the extreme dynamics too. Propably getting it anyway, it still seems to be a very good deal, I don't have an orchestral library, I need one like NOW and this seems to be a pretty good starting point...


----------



## Zedcars

T minus...







Good luck counting the beats in the bar with this one:




Arnold Schoenberg the triskaidekaphobe: https://www.classicfm.com/music-news/arnold-schoenberg-crippling-fear-number-thirteen


----------



## Adam Takacs

jonvog said:


> Hmm. So this articulation seems to be of limited use in every context but rubato and a tempo accidentaly matching the tempo the multi-tongues were recorded in. On the other hand one can propably always use the regular shorts to fake a multi-tongue articulation...
> I am concerned about the extreme dynamics too. Propably getting it anyway, it still seems to be a very good deal, I don't have an orchestral library, I need one like NOW and this seems to be a pretty good starting point...


Although there are some limitations indeed, I think it is still a very promising library, especially for that price. And which library does not have limitations?
I watched the walkthrough videos many times, it has far more advantages than disadvantages, sounds beautiful, so this weekend I will be installing a new 1TB SSD in my computer.


----------



## Leslie Fuller

Alex Fraser said:


> It's something along the lines of a joint venture. Both the BBC (commercial) and Spitfire have put money into the pot to pay for the studio, musicians etc. Presumably the profits are split too.



If you look back to page 138 (post #2741), Christian replies to my post, and says as such regarding the Joint Venture.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Leslie Fuller said:


> If you look back to page 138 (post #2741), Christian replies to my post, and says as such regarding the Joint Venture.


The fact you had to write “page 138, post #2741” pleases me greatly. Epic thread. 😅


----------



## Adam Takacs

In fact I'm afraid the library has much fewer limitations than me.
I'm sure that the transparent workflow that this library offers will be a great help in my learning process as well, which is an important aspect for me.


----------



## Fleer

tadam said:


> In fact I'm afraid the library has much fewer limitations than me.
> I'm sure that the transparent workflow that this library offers will be a great help in my learning process as well, which is an important aspect for me.


Good point. Feeling the same way.


----------



## synthetic

I’m less interested in things like dynamic layers as the TONE of the thing. And this sounds amazing. Remember that double the dynamics = double the recording/editing = double the cost. I think they made a smart business decision at this price, clearly judging by the 169-page thread.


----------



## Zedcars

synthetic said:


> I’m less interested in things like dynamic layers as the TONE of the thing. And this sounds amazing. Remember that double the dynamics = double the recording/editing = double the cost. I think they made a smart business decision at this price, clearly judging by the 169-page thread.


There is no need to double the number.
I would have been happy to pay extra for just 1 more dynamic layer at ff or fff and that would have delt with the angriest or mightiest of scores.

However, I do think the bang for buck is high. When you compare other orchestra-in-a-box libraries it’s crazily good value. Even more reason why I think most would not have scoffed if it was a bit more expensive for 1 more dynamic layer.

Of course, they are in the business of producing world respected sample libraries, and I’m just a nobody who once badly sampled my dad’s Zampoña.


----------



## dzilizzi

Okay guys. We need to step it up. There are only two weeks or so until the BBCSO comes out and we need 1621 more posts on here. Seriously, we need to step it up.


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> Okay guys. We need to step it up. There are only two weeks or so until the BBCSO comes out and we need 1621 more posts on here. Seriously, we need to step it up.


At more than 115 posts a day, that seems like a tall order. A month ago I estimated the total would be 4638 on launch day, but the average daily post count was much higher then. I think 4000 will even be a struggle. Of course, I could just post even more crap than I have been but I’d quickly end up on everyone’s block list for being the most irritating member ever.


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> At more than 115 posts a day, that seems like a tall order. A month ago I estimated the total would be 4638 on launch day, but the average daily post count was much higher then. I think 4000 will even be a struggle. Of course, I could just post even more crap than I have been but I’d quickly end up on everyone’s block list for being the most irritating member ever.


Well, as they put out more videos hopefully it will get busier? LOL! Actually, I'm sure it will hit over 5K once people start working with it and either love it or have complaints. Or Quality Street chocolates are out for the holidays.


----------



## oboemaroni

Did spitfire say that they will publish any info on the number of dynamic layers before this launches? A lack of clarity on that would hold me back from preordering I think.


----------



## muk

oboemaroni said:


> Did spitfire say that they will publish any info on the number of dynamic layers before this launches? A lack of clarity on that would hold me back from preordering I think.



If I remember correctly, they said that it would be difficult to publish such info because it varied per instrument and articulation. I think it would be nice to have the info. But I don't necessarily need it since it's pretty clear to me from the demos and walkthroughs that pianissimo and fortissimo are missing.

Look at Mr. Henson's trailer, for example. Where the strings come in at the beginning, that would have been such a beautiful spot for a true pianissmo. Than gradually increasing. Instead, we hear a mezzoforte timbre, volume-automated to be quieter. Don't get me wrong, it's still nice and works quite well. Still I feel it is a workaround, and with a true pianissimo-layer it could have been magical. 

At the other end of the dynamic spectrum there is Mr. Blaney's fabulous demo piece. It's fantastic. However, if you want to nitpick: if you listen to the strings at the beginning, and throughout the whole piece, the timbre does not match the loud and bold part they are playing. Next to the loud brass (not a fortissimo timbre there either, by the way), it sounds like these strings played at maybe 75% of the maximum intensity they are capable of, and then were mixed louder. 

How much that bothers you and limits your writing, everyone has to decide themselves. I think it can be worked around, at some cost. Cause I also think that with those dynamics I could have created some moments that I can't without.

Sorry to have harped on this point again. In my opinion it sounds like a gorgeous library. What has been recorded is sonically outstanding. There is a clarity to the sound, and a beautiful sense of depth and room that I don't hear in other libraries. And the content is massive considering the price. But it does have it's limits and omissions. Omissions that are all the more regrettable when the rest sounds so good. And given that it is the BBC SO that has been recorded, and the sound will work very well for concert music, I feel that those two extra dynamics and maybe two or three short articulations more (even at the expense of some of the esoteric effects that are included) could have made it an ultimate go-to for this kind of music.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Of course, I could just post even more crap than I have been but I’d quickly end up on everyone’s block list for being the most irritating member ever.


I'd be disappointed if you stopped!
The banter has been a refreshing change of pace for the forum. It can always be bypassed with a flick of the finger. Let's enjoy the positivity before the inevitable post-release s**tstorm. 😎


----------



## Adam Takacs

muk said:


> If I remember correctly, they said that it would be difficult to publish such info because it varied per instrument and articulation.



That's true and the same goes for other Spitfire libraries.
Mural and Sable (and the new version) videos are still available on youtube and these GUIs have the informations about dynamic layers.

For example:


----------



## Sovereign

oboemaroni said:


> Did spitfire say that they will publish any info on the number of dynamic layers before this launches? A lack of clarity on that would hold me back from preordering I think.


No they dodged the question and I think it is particularly silly (and erodes trust) since most libraries I know inform their customers which dynamics were recorded. That the dynamics vary per instrument and articulation would a reason they cannot tell us seems to be nonsense to me. I'm pretty sure all the legatos have the same amount of recorded dynamics from watching the amount of voices involved, same for the longs and shorts, etc. They could easily give a global indication of the bottom and top dynamics. It would be more than a shame if Maida Vale gets torn down and they did not secure more recordings for what seems to be one of their best products to date.


----------



## JohnG

I think two ideas are getting muddled:

1. The number of velocity layers; and
2. The dynamics.

They are of course related but they are not the same thing. If you have "cuivre" brass, that is usually f or ff, for example. Similarly, in past libraries, "sul tasto" and, sometimes, "flautando" in Spitfire has connoted p or pp (or softer) sounds.

*It Is What It Is*

Overall, I am surprised at the insistence that the library conform to users' preconceived ideas of what they personally think it "should" be.

For the price I would think most beginners and plenty of others are getting a fantastically detailed library. Maybe it doesn't cover everything, but I just glanced through the articulation list and it looks like amazing value. Including things like section leaders and percussion, contrabass clarinet and contrabass tuba, harp, and 10 different timpani articulations goes well beyond what I would think of as typical of "bargain all-in-one" but there they are.

Have at it, but harping on velocity layers seems like a lot of energy spent on what is close to irrelevance. If you really want lots of velocity layers, the bigger patches in Hollywood Strings have, I believe, 13, and that library is very much a bargain these days. Besides, if Spitfire announce "7 velocity layers" and it turns out that the second Bass Drum (yes there are two) only has 4 on some articulation, some jackass is liable to sue under some EU "help the consumer" statute, or create 50 posts on same.

I think perhaps we all learn more about our potential decision by focusing on what it actually is trying to do and what it sounds like, rather than what someone thinks it should try to do.

Put another way, if we all could write something as dazzling as Andy Blaney's "Admiral Benbow," we'd be doing pretty well.


----------



## fiestared

JohnG said:


> I think two ideas are getting muddled:
> 
> 1. The number of velocity layers; and
> 2. The dynamics.
> 
> They are of course related but they are not the same thing. If you have "cuivre" brass, that is usually f or ff, for example. Similarly, in past libraries, "sul tasto" and, sometimes, "flautando" in Spitfire has connoted p or pp (or softer) sounds.
> 
> *It Is What It Is*
> 
> Overall, I am surprised at the insistence that the library conform to users' preconceived ideas of what they personally think it "should" be.
> 
> For the price I would think most beginners and plenty of others are getting a fantastically detailed library. Maybe it doesn't cover everything, but I just glanced through the articulation list and it looks like amazing value. Including things like section leaders and percussion, contrabass clarinet and contrabass tuba, harp, and 10 different timpani articulations goes well beyond what I would think of as typical of "bargain all-in-one" but there they are.
> 
> Have at it, but harping on velocity layers seems like a lot of energy spent on what is close to irrelevance. If you really want lots of velocity layers, the bigger patches in Hollywood Strings have, I believe, 13, and that library is very much a bargain these days. Besides, if Spitfire announce "7 velocity layers" and it turns out that the second Bass Drum (yes there are two) only has 4 on some articulation, some jackass is liable to sue under some EU "help the consumer" statute, or create 50 posts on same.
> 
> I think perhaps we all learn more about our potential decision by focusing on what it actually is trying to do and what it sounds like, rather than what someone thinks it should try to do.
> 
> Put another way, if we all could write something as dazzling as Andy Blaney's "Admiral Benbow," we'd be doing pretty well.


So true...


----------



## Sovereign

JohnG said:


> Overall, I am surprised at the insistence that the library conform to users' preconceived ideas of what they personally think it "should" be.


Oh yeah, it is sooo super weird that people expect it to do ff. Such a ridiculous request, how dare they 'demand' something so ordinary.


----------



## Adam Takacs

Although I agree on many points, but I think it's not a problem at all if someone tells which functions would be important to her or him.
Or what functions are missing that can be successfully used in other libraries from the same developer.
This is not an attack but a feedback and if cowbell and sleighbell deserve a bunch of comments, then relevant things like dynamics and articulations can be discussed as well I think.


----------



## oboemaroni

To each their own, but I don't think it's especially unreasonable to ask for relevant technical information about things like dynamic layers, given that this would be a pre-release purchase of a product for which refunds aren't offered. Even an indication of the layers on the legatos would be useful in helping me decide.


----------



## AndyP

For me it is ok if it is <ppp this year, because I will get along without this library until next year. My priorities at the moment are elsewhere.
By then I will have heard many exciting and exceptionally good sounding new compositions created with the BBCSO.


----------



## Alex Fraser

The library is what it is. I wouldn't sink £700 either way on one tiny aspect of the offering. So, does knowing the details really help anyone? Who stole the last chocolate triangle from the tin?


----------



## mikeh-375

Alex Fraser said:


> .....So, does knowing the details really help anyone? Who stole the last chocolate triangle from tin?



Answer 1....Yes.
Answer 2....Certainly not me....


----------



## jaketanner

jamieboo said:


> Hello folks
> 
> This is all looking excellent!
> I may well jump on this, but I'm just wondering whether I'll go for the SSD deal or not.
> In terms of real world performance, what would the practical difference be between an SSD connected via USB3 and an SSD connected internally via SATA3?
> 
> Thanks


SATA3 should b slightly faster, if not roughly the same as USB 3...however, when I switched from SATAIII to USB C connection, speeds went up for sure. So theoretically, USB 3.1 type II, is faster. Type C is the same connection as TB3, but they only share connection type, NOT in terms of speed.


----------



## jaketanner

jamieboo said:


> Interesting. That's the same as EW then.
> For some reason I had the impression that degree of overlap determined degree of legato/portamento.


That's almost never the case. The overlap simply triggers the legato transitions...portamento is most often velocity based...at least in all my libraries.


----------



## christianhenson

Next instalment of the template build here!


----------



## JohnG

Sovereign said:


> Oh yeah, it is sooo super weird that people expect it to do ff. Such a ridiculous request, how dare they 'demand' something so ordinary.



Naturally, you are free to post whatever you like, but I find it wearing when some (not you necessarily) post the same thing 5-10 times.

Moreover, I disagree with you. 

I just listened again to "Admiral Benbow." If you don't count the bigger passages from that as 'fortissimo,' it appears that your idea of ff differs from mine. Possibly Andy Blaney used different patches than those in the walk-through? IDK. For most of my own writing, this library would cover everything (or almost everything) orchestral, in a musically entrancing way.

And, if not, like most here, I own quite a few orchestral libraries and can always mix in a patch from another library (including some Spitfire offerings) if there's a particular sound or dynamic that is missing. 

Even with my trailer-music hat on, I think this library would cover a great deal, and trailer music is not bashful. Certainly, there are a number of libraries that focus on the ff-ffff dynamics, as you are no doubt aware, so one can either fill in with those or just skip the BBC library and buy something else.


----------



## jbuhler

In terms of standard usage, I miss the muted brass far more than what's missing on fff and ppp end, and I'll miss whatever's missing on the soft end more than the loud. From the walkthroughs, this seems like an exceptionally good deal—not perfect to be sure but a great solid starting point that will cover a lot of ground for $1000, and I've really liked what I've heard so far. My only hesitation is that given the libraries I already own I objectively don't need it unless its standardization across the library makes it considerably easier to use than the libraries I have. And it will be hard to assess that until folks have had a chance to dig into the details.


----------



## Sovereign

JohnG said:


> Certainly, there are a number of libraries that focus on the ff-ffff dynamics, as you are no doubt aware, so one can either fill in with those or just skip the BBC library and buy something else.


Most other orchestral libraries don't "focus" on the harshest dynamics, they include them (can't think of a modern library which does not at least include ff). And even then, BBCSO is supposed to be all share and collaborate, there is supposedly no need to add other libraries to the mix to handle the basics. This is not some obscure articulation. I find it curious that a dynamic which is very ordinary in any sort of orchestral music, would be excluded and would necessitate bringing in other libraries (SFA has not jumped in yet and said 'guys you're wrong, ff is in there, we recorded it'). That's my point of view which I think is very fair. I can't imagine that SFA does not want any sort of reasonable feedback either and that we would all just lean back in a passive way and say 'well it is what it is'. That said, what is there seems like a great product, I hope it sells REALLY well and motivates SFA to do an add-on in the feature alleviating my and others' concerns.


----------



## Noeticus

While I love the sound and price of the Spitfire BBCSO library, I do not view it as "Game Changing".

I would have hoped for ppp through fff for the library to be even slightly game changing, and more Round Robins of course.

I hope that these negative comments promote Spitfire to record all the other dynamics etc. before Maida Vale goes away.


----------



## cqd

The muted brass will surely rock up at some stage as an update..


----------



## jamwerks

I seem to remember Paul showing the low dynamics on the Horns and Trumpets. To me that sounded like their real "come in softly as you can" playing.

And people were saying the same thing about Berlin Brass lacking a true FFF playing style. Orchestral fortissimi seem covered here to me, but maybe not a total balls-to-the-walls FFF needed for Trailer type stuff. That kind of playing would be better served by a dedicated brass library with 3-4 velocity layers just from F to FFFF. No reason they couldn't do that later at some point.


----------



## Pablocrespo

Yes, I am still missing repetition legato, which I use a lot, and I am too concerned about loud dynamics so far.


----------



## ed buller

JohnG said:


> Overall, I am surprised at the insistence that the library conform to users' preconceived ideas of what they personally think it "should" be.


What he said !

e


----------



## jaketanner

Dynamics are relative. You can easily have FF if your softest PP is not at the bare bottom of the spectrum. There is no definitive measurable level of what’s considered pp or ff it’s all relative.


----------



## CT

jaketanner said:


> Dynamics are relative. You can easily have FF if your softest PP is not at the bare bottom of the spectrum. There is no definitive measurable level of what’s considered pp or ff it’s all relative.



This is a point I tried to make earlier. Concert orchestras, as far as I know, have a noticably lower dynamic spectrum relative to those used in an average contemporary scoring session. I could be wrong about that, or it could be irrelevant here, but it might be something to keep in mind.


----------



## lumcas

After watching the brass section walkthrough I can't add anything better than this🤟🤟🤟🤟


----------



## BassClef

lumcas said:


> After watching the brass section walkthrough I can't add anything better than this🤟🤟🤟🤟



As a former horn player... BRAVO!


----------



## JohnG

Sovereign said:


> can't think of a modern library which does not at least include ff



This is where we disagree. Based on what I hear in the "Admiral Benbow" demo, this library _does_ include dynamics that are about as loud as I usually use in scoring to picture, including, to my ear, ff.

No harm in wanting it louder than that, naturally.


----------



## Zedcars

T-Minus...


"12 Monkeys" movie (1995) theme from "Suite Punta Del Este" by Astor Piazolla:




"Music in Twelve Parts - Part 12" (1971-1974) by Philip Glass:




"Music for Orchestra" (1970) - a little known piece by the late great Jerry Goldsmith using the same twelve-tone row over 3 movements. Conducted by Jerry Goldsmith; performed by the London Symphony Orchestra:





12 is the atomic number of magnesium in the periodic table.
The human body has twelve cranial nerves.
Force 12 on the Beaufort wind force scale corresponds to the maximum wind speed of a hurricane.
The Chinese use a 12-year cycle for time-reckoning called Earthly Branches.


----------



## porrasm

Zedcars said:


> There is no need to double the number.
> I would have been happy to pay extra for just 1 more dynamic layer at ff or fff and that would have delt with the angriest or mightiest of scores.
> 
> However, I do think the bang for buck is high. When you compare other orchestra-in-a-box libraries it’s crazily good value. Even more reason why I think most would not have scoffed if it was a bit more expensive for 1 more dynamic layer.
> 
> Of course, they are in the business of producing world respected sample libraries, and I’m just a nobody who once badly sampled my dad’s Zampoña.



They've been hinting at more cooperation with BBC. Perhaps they'll record some add ons later or maybe they will release a pro or an ultimate version of the library.


----------



## Architekton

I believe BBC Pro will contain ppp and fff...and some additional instruments.


----------



## VinRice

Zedcars said:


> Of course, I could just post even more crap than I have been but I’d quickly end up on everyone’s block list for being the most irritating member ever.



Not even close mate...


----------



## Noeticus

The Pro version should have a minimum of 5 dynamics, and also round robins even on the longs.


----------



## Zedcars

I present my poem:

The BBC SO Planets

The ferocity of Mars may be unreachable, but as she is mostly pianissimo, Venus could be within our orbit.

Mercury moves with speed, and her mood swings are fortissimo to pianissimo, but Jupiter is too triumphantly raucous to satisfy his forte fortissimo needs.

Although Saturn is old and steady he can still throw a tremendous triple f punch, but dies away to rest with three p’s.

Neptune is distant and ghostly, as her vastness stretches out to an almost deathly silence of pppp, then nothingness.

Not even the gas giants can match the thunderous ffff winds escaping from Uranus.


----------



## synthetic

Also this release is 4 horns and 3 trumpets, so it's a 'small' brass section compared to 'modern' a12 horn death rays. More John Williams than Lorne Balfe.


----------



## muk

JohnG said:


> Naturally, you are free to post whatever you like, but I find it wearing when some (not you necessarily) post the same thing 5-10 times.



John, I don't find it unreasonable to discuss the features, lacking or included, of a library. The library is just what it is? Well, what do we need this forum for? If you pay a few hundred bucks, can not test, nor return, nor resell, a bit of scrutiny is not out of place in my opinion. But of course I can also just shut up, keep my observations to myself. And leave you to discuss chocolate and sleighbells at great lenght, if that is less wearing to you.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Sure, but I’d make a distinction here. 
Talking about the library specs can be useful, but arguing about what the specs “should be” isn’t. 

The second one is the main cause of (albeit entertaining) forum rumbles.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Just listend to the Brass walkthrough and for my taste, the missing fff+ layer isn't a bigger problem. There are dedicated libraries just for that. E.g. 4 horns couldn't beat 9 horns (MA1) or 12 horns (Cinesamples) even in maxed out dynamics.
You can't expect a $999 library to do everything perfectly from classical mockups to trailer stuff. Even without, this is by far the most complete all-in-one library out there for that price.
And as said before, so far I don't feel like the limitations will be too dramatic in most of what I'm going to use BBCSO for whatsoever.

Let's hear those woodwinds!!!


----------



## Sovereign

Alex Fraser said:


> Talking about the library specs can be useful, but arguing about what the specs “should be” isn’t.


I would beg to disagree here, Alex. That's pretty much saying any criticism, no matter how fair, is off limits.


----------



## Sovereign

Bluemount Score said:


> Just listend to the Brass walkthrough and for my taste, the missing fff+ layer isn't a bigger problem.


We're talking forte fortissimo, not fff+. Why misrepresent the issue? And it's not just a brass 'thing', strings as well. At this point people are disagreeing how loud the library can be, some disagree it can do anything above forte. Given all this confusion, SFA is not clearing up the issue so where does that leave us?


----------



## mikeh-375

I hope an opportunity for "deep sampling" has not been missed solely because the selling price and target market has dictated the musical constraints. Perhaps SFA could confirm or not that a pro version, and/or additional material is available for future releases, or will even be recorded in future. That would help me in my decision to buy, but then again, perhaps they can't make such announcments before judging the success of their initial release. I do appreciate the dichotomies they must face at times and still I live in hope....I mean, the BBCSO in a box!..I went to college with some of those players.

@JohnG says it is what it is, true enough I suppose, but I am of the mind that the prestige of the project should not be short-changed musically, but then again I would say that as a composer, but as a business? As a customer however, I am with others here in that we have a right to question the details and opine as we see fit, especially as there is no recourse once purchased.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Sovereign said:


> I would beg to disagree here, Alex. That's pretty much saying any criticism, no matter how fair, is off limits.


With respect, criticism of a library that doesn't deliver what was promised is valid enough. But the forum is criticising the library for things it clearly wasn't designed to deliver in the first place. Is there much point in doing so? There's the rub I guess.


----------



## Zedcars

Sovereign said:


> ...so where does that leave us?


Up a gum tree without a paddle.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Sovereign said:


> We're talking forte fortissimo, not fff+. Why misrepresent the issue?


Well so or so the main issue for some people seems to be that the library isn't deeply enough sampled (overall?), while in my eyes and from what I've seen so far it is the most consistent and complete orchestral VST available right now in that price range. Tone-wise, I love it. Not a major game changer, but definitely a great "universal starting point", as SFA describes it as well.
I haven't pre-ordered yet. But I'm most likely going to soon, to fill some gaps of my current main template and to build a completely new one just made out of BBCSO patches to achieve that all-recorded-in-one-room-an-correct-place sound.


----------



## Zedcars

Can’t we just ask people to twist their knobs to the right a bit?


----------



## synkrotron

Zedcars said:


> Can’t we just ask people to twist their knobs to the right a bit?



Hmmm... Mine already twists to the left so I am not sure I fancy twisting it to the right...


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> T-Minus...
> 
> 
> "12 Monkeys" movie (1995) theme by Paul Buckmaster (based on Libertango by Astor Piazolla):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Music in Twelve Parts - Part 12" (1971-1974) by Philip Glass:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Music for Orchestra" (1970) - a little known piece by the late great Jerry Goldsmith using the same twelve-tone row over 3 movements. Conducted by Jerry Goldsmith; performed by the London Symphony Orchestra:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12 is the atomic number of magnesium in the periodic table.
> The human body has twelve cranial nerves.
> Force 12 on the Beaufort wind force scale corresponds to the maximum wind speed of a hurricane.
> The Chinese use a 12-year cycle for time-reckoning called Earthly Branches.




If only you’d started doing this when it was 69 days to go! (I can’t be bothered to calculate if it had been announced then).


----------



## David Gosnell

Zedcars said:


> T-Minus...
> 
> 
> "12 Monkeys" movie (1995) theme by Paul Buckmaster (based on Libertango by Astor Piazolla):





Sorry, off topic - but the "12 Monkeys" theme was pure Piazolla - Suite Punta del Este; Introduction.

PIAZZOLLA, ASTOR."SUITE PUNTA DEL ESTE"- INTRODUCCIÓN.OCAZENIGMA.LUIS CARUANA:BANDONEÓN (LIVE)

Back on topic - surely the ultimate, game changing collaboration tool would need to be capable of Nordic Noir to Marvel Trailer; if it can't (or if that isn't the intended endpoint after updates) then - it isn't. Doesn't mean the library won't be good value or useful, just that it isn't the ultimate collaboration tool and hasn't changed any games. You just have to work out if you can replicate the amazing sense of clear 3D space SFA have managed to create with the Maida Vale/spill mics combo with your other libraries and plug-ins to get them to sit together and thereby fill in the gaps in a convincing way.

In terms of who has the right to have an opinion; marketing is defined as _the profitable satisfaction of customer needs_. So any pontifications read on here are useful to any developer (not just SFA) to help them generate profit (because they are statements of _customer needs_) - if you are a professional marketer, you ignore the tone (and respond non-defensively with your best 'innocent face') and pick out the useful information. If 1 person has a gripe you put it to the bottom of the development priority list, if 100 have the same gripe it goes to the top, etc.


----------



## Zedcars

David Gosnell said:


> Sorry, off topic - but the "12 Monkeys" theme was pure Piazolla - Suite Punta del Este; Introduction.
> 
> PIAZZOLLA, ASTOR."SUITE PUNTA DEL ESTE"- INTRODUCCIÓN.OCAZENIGMA.LUIS CARUANA:BANDONEÓN (LIVE)


Noted. Will update my post. Thanks for letting me know.


----------



## David Gosnell

Zedcars said:


> Noted. Will update my post. Thanks for letting me know.


No worries  - I've learned a lot of things in this thread I didn't know about Quality Street!

(and apologies to anyone who is now 4:40 less close to hitting a deadline because they clicked the Piazzolla link - like I just did to be able to paste it in; Jeez I love that piece )


----------



## dreddiknight

I think all opinions count. I also think Spitfire have the right to include or exclude whatever they want to in order to minimise their costs and get it to the price point they want.
At that point we can all make our decisions based on what they've done. 

I get the dissatisfaction at the exclusion of dynamic layers but don't really understand the continual reiterating of the point beyond the first few times...

It's kind of like being a fantasy football manager; we don't know the costs, time restrictions, logistical details etc of putting this thing together so at best we can only make guesses at why "this" is in there it "that" is not, and repeatedly reiterating ones frustration at what is not _is_ tiring to read again and again; I do (I think I could say we here but I only ever speak for my self) actually get it. I also hope it will help one let off enough steam so the conversation can organically move on soon...


----------



## Saxer

I must say that I could never judge a library from some infos and walkthrough videos alone. I deeply admire all those who already know exactly what‘s great and what‘s missing!


----------



## mikeh-375

What's missing is clarity. There aint no mistaking my £'s though.


----------



## redlester

I may be wrong but I don’t think Spitfire publish the dynamics information for any of their libraries? I stand corrected if wrong on that.


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> I may be wrong but I don’t think Spitfire publish the dynamics information for any of their libraries? I stand corrected if wrong on that.


I think BML Sable had a dynamics Matrix showing that info. They also published dynamics info on BDT:









British Drama Toolkit: The Velocity Layers


British Drama Toolkit relies on velocity response to create its dynamic response. This means particular velocities will trigger different samples in different dynamic categories. In British Drama ...




spitfireaudio.zendesk.com


----------



## synkrotron

But! It's the B B C !


----------



## Scamper

Zedcars said:


> I think BML Sable had a dynamics Matrix showing that info.



Yep, Sable and SCS have this, but not on all patches. I don't know, if other symphonic libraries have this, but it's always good to see.

(Seeing the beautiful Sable UI again, I find it again unfortunate, that SCS is not similar.)


----------



## JohnG

Scamper said:


> (Seeing the beautiful Sable UI again, I find it again unfortunate, that SCS is not similar.)


Click on the wrench / spanner


----------



## Scamper

JohnG said:


> Click on the wrench / spanner



Sure, but I rather mean the color scheme.
I just prefer the soft colorful pastels and things like the drop shadow or the different sort of background pictures compared to the vibrant and grey look of the new symphonic line.


----------



## Noeticus

The solution is Einstein's

E=MC2

where E = Emotion, M = Music, and C = Control squared

Unfortunately, if you don't have a particular dynamic, or round robin, or articulation to control then getting the Emotion correct may well be impossible.


----------



## dzilizzi

Scamper said:


> Sure, but I rather mean the color scheme.
> I just prefer the soft colorful pastels and things like the drop shadow or the different sort of background pictures compared to the vibrant and grey look of the new symphonic line.


I'm with you on that. I really find all the white, black and grey color schemes depressing after a while. I like color. I swear I've bought plugins because they were colorful rather than amazing. 

I think it would be great if we could have multiple layers, round robins and dynamics, but I'm guessing they have to limit it to fit the time and price constraints to put out this library. I think no matter what they do, someone will be disappointed.


----------



## Manaberry

Still looking for a 14 days trial. It would be clearly useful to judge by myself the library and how it would fit in my template. I quite like what I've heard yet but...

No one from SA will compose a demo track or use the library the way I would use it. There is a lot of content here in BBCSO, but only a little bit is shown. Looking forward to watching hours of in-depth reviews.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> I think BML Sable had a dynamics Matrix showing that info. They also published dynamics info on BDT:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> British Drama Toolkit: The Velocity Layers
> 
> 
> British Drama Toolkit relies on velocity response to create its dynamic response. This means particular velocities will trigger different samples in different dynamic categories. In British Drama ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spitfireaudio.zendesk.com



Can't comment on Sable as it pre-dates any of my knowledge, but BDT is probably a unique case because in some cases different velocities actually trigger different instruments, also that info is from the Spitfire online support centre, it's not published amongst the marketing material (unless it's mentioned in the walkthrough videos?) - which is what I was getting at, as this is what some people would really like from them with BBC. I think we all would, as it would clarify things even for those for whom it's not a major issue.

Regarding the colours - I much prefer the look of SCS to Sable. Just goes to show you can't please everyone! Quality Street v Roses, all over again!


----------



## dzilizzi

I was going to say that about the BDT but got distracted by the colors. LOL! When the instrument you hear depends on the velocity, it becomes a little more required info.


----------



## Illico

I know it's like asking to a Lion if he has to stop eating croquettes, but rather move to meat ...
But do you think I have to replace my EWQL Symphonic Orchestra library by this BBCSO?


----------



## erica-grace

Illico said:


> But do you think I have to replace my EWQL Symphonic Orchestra library by this BBCSO?



I would say add to, not replace.


----------



## gtrwll

Illico said:


> But do you think I have to replace my EWQL Symphonic Orchestra library by this BBCSO?



Having moved on from SO years ago, I'd say now would be a good time for that.


----------



## Noeticus

The color of the GUI should be user changeble. I assume Kontakt allows for this, but it is not offered?


----------



## lp59burst

Manaberry said:


> Still looking for a 14 days trial. It would be clearly useful to judge by myself the library and how it would fit in my template. I quite like what I've heard yet but...
> 
> No one from SA will compose a demo track or use the library the way I would use it. There is a lot of content here in BBCSO, but only a little bit is shown. Looking forward to watching hours of in-depth reviews.


...some are still looking for the lost city of Atlantis... I'm guessing they'll find it before what you're looking for is found...


----------



## TeamLeader

I am confused. How are all the articulations going to be accessed? Via key switches ? Via UACC? Or something else? And is there a commonality between all the instruments. Like longs articulation on same key?


----------



## Adam Takacs

TeamLeader said:


> I am confused. How are all the articulations going to be accessed? Via key switches ? Via UACC? Or something else? And is there a commonality between all the instruments. Like longs articulation on same key?


Keyswitch option is available for sure and you can customize it, if you wish. Multi keyswitch function also works in my opinion.


----------



## synkrotron

I like black.

It goes with my t-shirt, jeans, undies and socks. For some reason I'm wearing brown shows lately... Need to address that.

Yeah, black... My favourite colour  

Customise-able skins would be nice, though, I suppose


----------



## dzilizzi

synkrotron said:


> I like black.
> 
> It goes with my t-shirt, jeans, undies and socks. For some reason I'm wearing brown shows lately... Need to address that.
> 
> Yeah, black... My favourite colour
> 
> Customise-able skins would be nice, though, I suppose


I went through an all black phase when I was younger. And now I wear it because it makes me look slimmer. If that is possible. 

But my Cubase? It is a little too colorful I think. But more fun to look at than ProTools.


----------



## dzilizzi

Noeticus said:


> The color of the GUI should be user changeble. I assume Kontakt allows for this, but it is not offered?


As far as I know, the GUI is locked in Kontakt. I'm not sure I have the ability to mess with it even if it weren't.


----------



## cqd

dzilizzi said:


> But my Cubase? It is a little too colorful I think. But more fun to look at than ProTools.



What?.. Cubase gives my eyes pains in comparison to pro tools..


----------



## synkrotron

You should all switch to REAPER! Much kinder on the eyes   




(joking... Of course... Or.........)


----------



## synkrotron

So, how many hours left? And who will be the first to report on this Wonder of Wonders? Who has also splashed out on the SSD?


----------



## Zedcars

T-Minus...


"Violin Concerto 'Eleven Eleven'” (2018) by Danny Elfman:




"Bachianas Brasileiras No. 9" (1945) by Heitor Villa-Lobos. Movement II is in 11/8 time:




“Dropping” (2019) by Koras. It uses the 11-EDO (Equal Divisions of the Octave) scale. (More info here):





There are 11 spacetime dimensions in M-theory.
The approximate periodicity of a sunspot cycle is 11 years.
In Igor Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring, there are 11 consecutive repetitions of the same chord.
Dmitri Shostakovich’s Symphony No. 14 (Op. 135) contains 11 movements.
World War I ended with an Armistice on November 11, 1918, which went into effect at 11:00 am—the 11th hour on the 11th day of the 11th month of the year.


----------



## redlester




----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


>



Ah, so obvious!


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


>



Sorry, changed my mind from a like to a laff!


----------



## smoothielova

Alright, took the plunge and pre-ordered with ssd. The sound is gorgeous. Like others have said, any articulation missing you can always mix other articulations from other libraries. For years I've wanted fast wood winds playable runs from Spitfire. I'm happy to have those included. I wish this library had dedicated playable runs patches for the strings and brass as well. The strings dont sound bad when doing runs in the video. They just sound clean and not blurry. Other than that everything else looks awesome and the library just sounds full with those extra mic options.


----------



## dzilizzi

cqd said:


> What?.. Cubase gives my eyes pains in comparison to pro tools..


Using Cubase gives me a headache, but there is no gray any where on my Cubase. Everything is a color. And I change it when I get bored. In PT, only the tracks have color. And I try to group similar colors by instrument class. Still a lot of gray. 

Someday I will try Reaper.


----------



## PerryD

Orchtoberfest is coming! Yah!


----------



## PerryD

PerryD said:


> Orchtoberfest is coming! Yah!


----------



## Geoff Grace

dzilizzi said:


> I think it would be great if we could have multiple layers, round robins and dynamics, but I'm guessing they have to limit it to fit the time and price constraints to put out this library. I think no matter what they do, someone will be disappointed.


To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln:

_“You can satisfy all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot satisfy all the people all the time.”_

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Geoff Grace

redlester said:


>



Yes, but do they go to _*ff*_?

Best,

Geoff


----------



## dzilizzi

Geoff Grace said:


> Yes, but do they go to _*ff*_?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


Isn't 11 supposed to be _fffff ???_

Edit - Oh wait, only one more than 10 so _fff._


----------



## Geoff Grace

dzilizzi said:


> Isn't 11 supposed to be _fffff ???_


Nigel Tufnel voice: _Well, it's one more, isn't it?_

Best,

Geoff


----------



## CT

Geoff Grace said:


> To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln:
> 
> _“You can satisfy all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot satisfy all the people all the time.”_
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff



To also paraphrase Abraham Lincoln:

_"I hope I can get the cash together for BBCSO within the next few weeks."_


----------



## Geoff Grace

Okay, I have one more thing to add about the whole *ff* matter:

Perhaps, Spitfire's approach is, "if it ain't baroque (dynamics), don't fix it."

Ba-dah-dum!

_Thank you! I'll be here all week!_

Best,

Geoff


----------



## MaxOctane

Guys, I'm getting kinda worried here. We're only at 174 pages. If you look at the FAQ for BBCSO, it says that this VI-C thread *must reach 200 pages* or the library won't be released. But at this point there might not be enough left to talk about. Thoughts?


----------



## Michael Antrum

dzilizzi said:


> Isn't 11 supposed to be _fffff ???_
> 
> Edit - Oh wait, only one more than 10 so _fff._



Actually, 11 isn’t ffff.

It’s FFS.


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> Isn't 11 supposed to be _fffff ???_
> 
> Edit - Oh wait, only one more than 10 so _fff._


Just how am I supposed to mock-up my orchestration* of Ligeti’s Etudes if I can’t get to _ffffffff _damn it???! 






Etude 13: L'escalier du diable (The Devil's Staircase).

He also employs _pppppppp _in Etude 9: Vertige. 

(*I haven’t actually orchestrated them but it sounds like it would be an awesome project that would take a lifetime to complete! Any takers...?)


----------



## Illico

Illico said:


> But do you think I have to replace my EWQL Symphonic Orchestra library by this BBCSO?





erica-grace said:


> I would say add to, not replace.





gtrwll said:


> Having moved on from SO years ago, I'd say now would be a good time for that.


Ok, will wait for next sales promotions during Black Friday and Christmas.


----------



## Zedcars

Illico said:


> Ok, will wait for next sales promotions during Black Friday and Christmas.


As I understand it, the sales price during those promotional periods will be the same as the present introductory price.

From their FAQ:

“_BBC Symphony Orchestra will be included in our upcoming Black Friday and Christmas sales at the introductory price._”


----------



## mikeh-375

Geoff Grace said:


> Okay, I have one more thing to add about the whole *ff* matter:
> 
> Perhaps, Spitfire's approach is, "if it ain't baroque (dynamics), don't fix it."
> 
> Ba-dah-dum!
> 
> _Thank you! I'll be here all week!_
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff



Geoff...get to the back of the class, that was truly terrible (and mildly amusing....only mildly though because I had to mis-pronounce.....tut tut)..


Zedcars said:


> Just how am I supposed to mock-up my orchestration* of Ligeti’s Etudes if I can’t get to _ffffffff _damn it???!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etude 13: L'escalier du diable (The Devil's Staircase).
> 
> He also employs _pppppppp _in Etude 9: Vertige.
> 
> (*I haven’t actually orchestrated them but it sounds like it would be an awesome project that would take a lifetime to complete! Any takers...?)



those Etudes are fantastic. I'm just not sure about the accents over the chord. Take the rh, are we meant to only accent the F sharp, D and C and not poor old A flat? oh and I think it could be a bit louder.... You're mistaken about the pppppppp, that's just a written in toilet break for the peeanist.......oh allright, I'll go and join Geoff now


----------



## gtrwll

For those who are downloading, Amazon.de is having a sale on a 1TB SSD:



~90€ (depending on the VAT of your country) is a good price for it, even though it isn't as good as the Samsung Evo-series.


----------



## Alex Fraser

mikeh-375 said:


> Geoff...get to the back of the class, that was truly terrible (and mildly amusing....only mildly though because I had to mis-pronounce.....tut tut)..
> 
> 
> those Etudes are fantastic. I'm just not sure about the accents over the chord. Take the rh, are we meant to only accent the F sharp, D and C and not poor old A flat? oh and I think it could be a bit louder.... You're mistaken about the pppppppp, that's just a written in toilet break for the peeanist.......oh allright, I'll go and join Geoff now


Yep, despite the fact that Geoff is one of the most intelligent and calming forum members, he nearly earned an unfollow for that one.. 😉


----------



## ERIC VALETTE

Hi all,

My post il a little HS but note that if you actually enter the code "score" at the time of payment, you get an additional 30% discount on nearly all Spitfire Audio products on their site, (except the new BBCSO), even those already enjoying a promotional offer ... in fact up to 60% off some products! 

Enjoy!


----------



## cqd

I'm just listening to that Mic signal walkthrough..
Those spill mics are nice..
There does seem to be a shortage of velocity layers though..

I wonder are like extra mixes being released a possibility at some point
in the future..
Like a classic orchestral mix or something along those lines..


----------



## Michael Antrum

I'm kind of getting confused with all these posts about expansion packs being released for this library. You know, extra mics, symphonic Digeridoo and FFFFF layers.

I thought the whole point of this library was that whoever had it would immediately have exactly the same setup as anyone else, making it the ideal tool for collaboration and sharing.

Releasing a series of add on packs would totally defeat the whole point of this.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Michael Antrum said:


> I'm kind of getting confused with all these posts about expansion packs being released for this library. You know, extra mics, symphonic Digeridoo and FFFFF layers.
> 
> I thought the whole point of this library was that whoever had it would immediately have exactly the same setup as anyone else, making it the ideal tool for collaboration and sharing.
> 
> Releasing a series of add on packs would totally defeat the whole point of this.


If I remember correctly, there’s an extra flute (bass?) coming at some point post release plus some unidentified “small” treats which won’t make the first build. 

A lot of stuff mentioned (pro versions, extra dynamics) is speculation and chatter. Spitfire have implied that the library is a single “all in” product and will continue that way. 

I think that’s where we’re at. Will welcome corrections or updates!


----------



## Zedcars

Michael Antrum said:


> I'm kind of getting confused with all these posts about expansion packs being released for this library. You know, extra mics, symphonic Digeridoo and FFFFF layers.
> 
> I thought the whole point of this library was that whoever had it would immediately have exactly the same setup as anyone else, making it the ideal tool for collaboration and sharing.
> 
> Releasing a series of add on packs would totally defeat the whole point of this.


True. I think it’s more a case of one’s desires verses reality.


----------



## synkrotron

No Bell Tree!!


----------



## Aphanasis

ERIC VALETTE said:


> My post il a little HS but note that if you actually enter the code "score" at the time of payment, you get an additional 30% discount on nearly all Spitfire Audio products on their site, (except the new BBCSO), even those already enjoying a promotional offer ... in fact up to 60% off some products!


Thank you so much for this!


----------



## jamieboo

gtrwll said:


> Having moved on from SO years ago, I'd say now would be a good time for that.



I'm in the same quandary.
I graduated from EWQLSO to their Hollywood Orchestra some years ago - I'm now wondering if I should move on to BBCSO?!
Is BBCSO a step up from EW Hollywood Diamond?
I'm toing and frowing on this!!


----------



## AllanH

jamieboo said:


> I'm in the same quandary.
> I graduated from EWQLSO to their Hollywood Orchestra some years ago - I'm now wondering if I should move on to BBCSO?!
> Is BBCSO a step up from EW Hollywood Diamond?
> I'm toing and frowing on this!!



As BBCSO is not out yet, I'm not sure how I can truly offer an opinion, but here we go: I love the sound of HO/D and use it on everything. I very much doubt the BBCSO will lead to the retirement of HO/D. 

However, all the demos of BBCSO seem to indicate a very different orchestral vs. HO/D studio sound, and I'm very much looking forward to adding that to my collection. The demos also indicate a sound I might actually prefer over Air hall, primarily due to the clarity and clear reverberation. 

If I were starting out today, I cannot think of a better starting point than BBCSO.


----------



## constaneum

Zedcars said:


> From their FAQ:
> 
> “_BBC Symphony Orchestra will be included in our upcoming Black Friday and Christmas sales at the introductory price._”



If this is true...might as well wait for year end...who knows we may have other surprise announcements which might hold up this purchase. Hehe


----------



## Noeticus

I just used the "Trinnov D-Mon 8" system to convert a fffff into a fffffffffffffff. The result was so loud that a Stargate opened up in my studio. Dave Bowman appeared and asked me to turn it the hell down.


----------



## Noeticus

From Wikiepedia...

In Holst's The Planets, ffff occurs twice in "Mars" and once in "Uranus", often punctuated by organ. Tchaikovsky marks a bassoon solo pppppp (6 ps) in his Pathétique Symphony and uses ffff in passages of his 1812 Overture and his Fifth Symphony. The baritone passage "Era la notte" from Verdi's opera Otello uses pppp, though the same spot is marked ppp in the full score. 

Igor Stravinsky used ffff at the end of the finale of the 1919 Firebird Suite. Sergei Rachmaninoff uses sffff in his Prelude in C♯, Op. 3 No. 2. Gustav Mahler, in the third movement of his Seventh Symphony, gives the celli and basses a marking of fffff (5 fs), along with a footnote directing 'pluck so hard that the strings hit the wood'. On the other extreme, Carl Nielsen, in the second movement of his Fifth Symphony, marked a passage for woodwinds a diminuendo to ppppp (5 ps), and the original piano version of F. W. Meacham's American Patrol begins at pppp and ends at ppppp. 

György Ligeti uses extreme dynamics in his music: the Cello Concerto begins with a passage marked pppppppp (8 ps) and in his Piano Études Étude No. 9 (Vertige) ends with a diminuendo to pppppppp (8 ps), while Étude No. 13 (L'Escalier du Diable) contains a passage marked ffffff (6 fs) that progresses to a ffffffff (8 fs).


----------



## Bluemount Score

Noeticus said:


> From Wikiepedia...
> 
> In Holst's The Planets, ffff occurs twice in "Mars" and once in "Uranus", often punctuated by organ. Tchaikovsky marks a bassoon solo pppppp (6 ps) in his Pathétique Symphony and uses ffff in passages of his 1812 Overture and his Fifth Symphony. The baritone passage "Era la notte" from Verdi's opera Otello uses pppp, though the same spot is marked ppp in the full score.
> 
> Igor Stravinsky used ffff at the end of the finale of the 1919 Firebird Suite. Sergei Rachmaninoff uses sffff in his Prelude in C♯, Op. 3 No. 2. Gustav Mahler, in the third movement of his Seventh Symphony, gives the celli and basses a marking of fffff (5 fs), along with a footnote directing 'pluck so hard that the strings hit the wood'. On the other extreme, Carl Nielsen, in the second movement of his Fifth Symphony, marked a passage for woodwinds a diminuendo to ppppp (5 ps), and the original piano version of F. W. Meacham's American Patrol begins at pppp and ends at ppppp.
> 
> György Ligeti uses extreme dynamics in his music: the Cello Concerto begins with a passage marked pppppppp (8 ps) and in his Piano Études Étude No. 9 (Vertige) ends with a diminuendo to pppppppp (8 ps), while Étude No. 13 (L'Escalier du Diable) contains a passage marked ffffff (6 fs) that progresses to a ffffffff (8 fs).


I like to have the freedom as well to play my instrument so quite that it isn't audible or so loud that it gets destroyed in the process! 

Honestly though, this is pretty interesting to read! Even though I'm a little like _whaaaat..._


----------



## Chungus

A perfect moment to share these little snippets:


----------



## dzilizzi

I was going to say I could play any instrument at _ppppp. _Really, any instrument. And I don't actually play any instrument well. But I do play a lot of air instruments.


----------



## jamieboo

AllanH said:


> As BBCSO is not out yet, I'm not sure how I can truly offer an opinion, but here we go: I love the sound of HO/D and use it on everything. I very much doubt the BBCSO will lead to the retirement of HO/D.
> 
> However, all the demos of BBCSO seem to indicate a very different orchestral vs. HO/D studio sound, and I'm very much looking forward to adding that to my collection. The demos also indicate a sound I might actually prefer over Air hall, primarily due to the clarity and clear reverberation.
> 
> If I were starting out today, I cannot think of a better starting point than BBCSO.



Yes, of course much is speculative at this stage.
But I'm interested how you would describe the very different sound between these two libraries?
I have a good 'musical' ear - ie pitch, harmony, etc - but I am hopeless at discerning anything to do with acoustics or space or the more technical sonic stuff.
Basically I write wannabe J Williams stuff - speculatively, which is the best library for that?


----------



## dzilizzi

jamieboo said:


> Yes, of course much is speculative at this stage.
> But I'm interested how you would describe the very different sound between these two libraries?
> I have a good 'musical' ear - ie pitch, harmony, etc - but I am hopeless at discerning anything to do with acoustics or space or the more technical sonic stuff.
> Basically I write wannabe J Williams stuff - speculatively, which is the best library for that?


I'm not the best to answer this, but I would think HWO/D would be perfect for J Williams music. The biggest issue with HW is the winds, which is a known problem. 

We don't know yet if there are any problems with BBCSO, but the fact it was recorded all together at the same time frame rather than as separate products makes it less likely to have matching issues that you have with other libraries.


----------



## Hadrondrift

jamieboo said:


> J Williams stuff - speculatively, which is the best library for that?


That would be the nearest library to have a copy of Walter Piston's "Orchestration" in stock. 

Nah, seriously, the BBCSO seems not to be the most epic sounding library, EWHO could be a better choice for Williams and co. But then, what exactly is "epic", if that's what you have in mind? What creates "epicness"?

I think, not only the sound alone plays a role, but also the orchestration and the contrast of a piece. If it moves in the pp-range, low woodwinds etc. for a long time and at the climax goes to f with 3 trombones, that can have the same perceived effect as a piece that moves permanently forte and then needs fff and 10 trumpets at the climax. The art of J. Williams for me comes from his orchestration skills.

That EastWest stuff is a pain in the butt to program, BBCSO seems to be on the easier side. Can make a big difference when it comes to unleashing creativity to create Williamsian stuff.


----------



## Fleer

dzilizzi said:


> I was going to say I could play any instrument at _ppppp. _Really, any instrument. And I don't actually play any instrument well. But I do play a lot of air instruments.


Same here. Flautist by call and formation


----------



## jamieboo

Hadrondrift said:


> That would be the nearest library to have a copy of Walter Piston's "Orchestration" in stock.
> 
> Nah, seriously, the BBCSO seems not to be the most epic sounding library, EWHO could be a better choice for Williams and co. But then, what exactly is epic? What creates "epicness"?
> 
> I think, not only the sound alone plays a role, but also the orchestration and the contrast. If a piece moves in the pp-range with low woodwinds for a long time and at the climax goes to f with 3 trombones, that can have the same effect as a piece that moves permanently forte and then needs fff and 10 trumpets at the climax. The art of J. Williams for me comes from his orchestration skills.
> 
> That EastWest stuff is a pain in the butt to program, BBCSO seems to be on the easier side. Can make a big difference when it comes to unleashing creativity to create Williamsian stuff.



Ha! Yep - got Piston, Adler, etc, even RK's venerable 'Principles of Orchestration' - and you're right, orchestration chops are essential to the sound I'm going for. But then which library is best suited to that kind of dense, kaleidoscopic orchestration?

I no longer think in terms of 'Epic'. A word that once hummed with rich, almost archetypal implication; now cheapened by mis/over -use.



Yeah, EWHO is awkward and inconsistent in it's programming. Just getting a consistently balanced orchestral volume is a struggle.

Oh well. I'll watch this space - and the walkthroughs and eventual reviews - with unexpectedly keen thighs, but I'll probably end up sticking with HO for the time being.


----------



## Zedcars

T-Minus...


"10 Cloverfield Lane" movie soundtrack (2016) by Bear McCreary. Track 10: "The Burn":




"Everything in Its Right Place" (2000) by Radiohead is in 10/4 time (divided in 4 + 4 + 2):




tenThing brass dectet ensemble performing a selection of music at a BBC Proms Chamber Music Concert at Cadogan Hall, London (2014):




Bonus track:
He-Man Sings "Heyeayea" Song for 10 hours straight:





Decapoda, is an order of crustaceans with ten feet.
There are ten spacetime dimensions in some superstring theories.
Messier object M10, a magnitude 6.4 globular cluster in the constellation Ophiuchus.
The Ten Commandments of Exodus and Deuteronomy are considered a cornerstone of Judaism and Christianity.
There are ten official inkblots in the Rorschach inkblot test.
There are ten people reading this wondering what the purpose of my post life is.


----------



## AllanH

jamieboo said:


> [..]
> I have a good 'musical' ear - ie pitch, harmony, etc - but I am hopeless at discerning anything to do with acoustics or space or the more technical sonic stuff.
> Basically I write wannabe J Williams stuff - speculatively, which is the best library for that?



HO has an tremendeous amount of articulations, including a large selection of playing styles and techniques. Quite overwhelming in the begining but of huge(!!!) value when understood. Wihout having hands-on experience with BBCSO, all I can say is that HO is capable of JW style writing, with the exception of the missing ensemble woodwinds. You should add EW Spaces II for an excellent reverb.

It will be interesting to see how well BBCSO handles tempo sync'd double/tripple tongued articulations (HO/D allows you to place the individual notes of the double/triplet). Knowing how sophisticated JW's writing in for Brass, that would likely be important.

EDIT: fixed typos.


----------



## jamieboo

AllanH said:


> HO has an tremendeous amount of articulations, including a large selection of playing styles and techniques. Quite overwhelming in the begining but of huge(!!!) value when understood. Wihout having hands-on experience with BBCSO, all I can say is that HO is capable of JW style writing, with the exception of the missing ensemble woodwinds. You should add EW Spaces II for an excellent reverb.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how well BBCSO handles tempo sync'd double/tripple tongued articulations (HO/D allows you to place the individual notes of the double/triplet). Knowing how sophisticated JW's writing in for Brass, that would likely be important.
> 
> EDIT: fixed typos.



Thanks AllanH

Yeah, I think I am not using HO to it's full potential - due to the aforementioned traditional musical skill as opposed to technical DAWy skill! And I suppose I'm wondering as to the possibility that Spitfire might make it generally easier to edge towards that kind of sound - might sound better out of the box as it were.

I've already got Spaces I, and that seems pretty good - but again I feel I'm using it in a woefully unskilled way!


----------



## gtrwll

So I just did this...






Watched the walkthroughs and listened to the demos again, and decided to take the plunge. The sound is just bloody gorgeus. And now I don't have to think about the pros and cons on a daily basis 

And I admit it felt much better to pay just 479,84€ now, but it will inevitably come back to haunt me when the taxman comes to collect what's due...


----------



## Bluemount Score

gtrwll said:


> And I admit it felt much better to pay just 479,84€ now


Wait, how so cheap? I thought 600 would be possible when you apply for EDU discount.
Or did you mean 749?


----------



## Mike Fox

Zedcars said:


> I present my poem:
> 
> The BBC SO Planets
> 
> The ferocity of Mars may be unreachable, but as she is mostly pianissimo, Venus could be within our orbit.
> 
> Mercury moves with speed, and her mood swings are fortissimo to pianissimo, but Jupiter is too triumphantly raucous to satisfy his forte fortissimo needs.
> 
> Although Saturn is old and steady he can still throw a tremendous triple f punch, but dies away to rest with three p’s.
> 
> Neptune is distant and ghostly, as her vastness stretches out to an almost deathly silence of pppp, then nothingness.
> 
> Not even the gas giants can match the thunderous ffff winds escaping from Uranus.


"I present my poem" 

Bahahahahaha!!!!!!! Pure awesomeness!!!!


----------



## gtrwll

Bluemount Score said:


> Wait, how so cheap? I thought 600 would be possible when you apply for EDU discount.
> Or did you mean 749?



It's the student discount price without VAT, as I have to deduce it from my purchases and pay it directly to my local tax office.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> T-Minus...


Zedcars, please tell us you've actually pre-ordered the library. It would be tragic for everyone else to be having the fun after all the effort you've put into the thread!


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Zedcars, please tell us you've actually pre-ordered the library. It would be tragic for everyone else to be having the fun after all the effort you've put into the thread!


What library?


----------



## synkrotron

Need. Two. Hundred. Pages.


----------



## Saxer

synkrotron said:


> Need. Two. Hundred. Pages.


Why?


----------



## Fleer

Which thread?


----------



## Zedcars

Fleer said:


> Which thread?


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

Here's something I don't think the Spitfire guys have addressed yet. How are the multi tongue articulations set to work with tempo? Are they tempo synced or is there a way to control the the speed? Maybe it's done through scripting. How do other libraries handle this? 

It will be interesting to hear examples of the feature from members once it's released


----------



## synkrotron

Saxer said:


> Why?







__





Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


Isn't 11 supposed to be fffff ??? Nigel Tufnel voice: Well, it's one more, isn't it? Best, Geoff




vi-control.net


----------



## Bluemount Score

Larry Hanshaw said:


> Here's something I don't think the Spitfire guys have addressed yet. How are the multi tongue articulations set to work with tempo? Are they tempo synced or is there a way to control the the speed? Maybe it's done through scripting. How do other libraries handle this?


Usually you got the option to have them played naturally / how they were recorded, and an option for tempo synced playback.


----------



## jamwerks

Bluemount Score said:


> Usually you got the option to have them played naturally / how they were recorded, and an option for tempo synced playback.


Not 100% sure, but don't imagine those are tempo synced. Those are typically "grace-note", quick, before-the-beat type figures.


----------



## Fleer

Zedcars said:


>


May have found one here:




__





Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


https://www.spitfireaudio.com/community/spitfire-audio-events/ Any ideas?




vi-control.net


----------



## thebob

ERIC VALETTE said:


> Hi all,
> 
> My post il a little HS but note that if you actually enter the code "score" at the time of payment, you get an additional 30% discount on nearly all Spitfire Audio products on their site, (except the new BBCSO), even those already enjoying a promotional offer ... in fact up to 60% off some products!
> 
> Enjoy!



what the hell was that and how did it got annoucend ? it seems it has expired already :(


----------



## synkrotron

thebob said:


> what the hell was that and how did it got annoucend ? it seems it has expired already :(











Season 2 Episode 19 | Mac Quayle says Mr. Robot spoke to him


Robert and Kenny start the show discussing the release of Hildur Guðnadóttir ’s score for Joker and the upcoming release of the highly-anticipated film as well as a group of music-related documentaries in theaters. Then, Emmy-winning composer Mac Quayle joins the show to share stories of his...




www.score-movie.com


----------



## thebob

Were you replying to me Synkrotron ? (all I see from your reply is an advertising)


----------



## synkrotron

thebob said:


> Were you replying to me Synkrotron ? (all I see from your reply is an advertising)



The "advertising" is where the promo code for discount on SA products was announced, back at the start of October. The promo code is mentioned near the beginning of the podcast and near the end.


----------



## Zedcars

synkrotron said:


> The "advertising" is where the promo code for discount on SA products was announced, back at the start of October. The promo code is mentioned near the beginning of the podcast and near the end.


Just listening to S2E1 back from April where they interview Bear McCreary. It’s such a fascinating conversation. It’s partly why I posted a track from 10 Cloverfield Lane yesterday because he was taught by one of the greats - Elmer Bernstein. I think it’s so important that these skills are passed on and there is a direct link with past present and future composers. It’s also why I value this forum so highly because it’s populated by so many great talents and the wealth of knowledge, level support and collaboration is invaluable. Yes, I do post too much stupid stuff. But I also read a lot of fantastic posts and value this community very highly. I think there is sometimes too much negativity. It’s important that we remain respectful and helpful, rather than demean and belittle. I have read some very harsh comments on other threads and think they crossed the line. Yes, be honest, but do so without getting personal.

Sorry, went on a bit there haha! 

(P.S. Those last comments are not directed at you synkrotron - just talking generally!)


----------



## synkrotron

Zedcars said:


> Bear McCreary



I hate to say, never heard of him!

My bad  


I'll have a listen to that one while I'm backing up my system


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Zedcars, please tell us you've actually pre-ordered the library. It would be tragic for everyone else to be having the fun after all the effort you've put into the thread!


Prolly should answer your complimentary question.

Yes, yes, and thrice yes I say. 

I take it you have?


----------



## synkrotron

I am not worthy of such a beautiful creation


----------



## Zedcars

Fleer said:


> May have found one here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra
> 
> 
> https://www.spitfireaudio.com/community/spitfire-audio-events/ Any ideas?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net


Looks like a load of old balls to me.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Prolly should answer your complimentary question.
> 
> Yes, yes, and thrice yes I say.
> 
> I take it you have?


Actually, no!
A recent Studio Series purchase plus a new baby in the house has kinda put the brakes on.
As a Spitfire fan, BBC fan and stiff-upper-lip brit, it's 100% inevitable that I'll take the plunge at some point, perhaps later in the year if the music-income gods are kind. 

In the meantime, I'm happy to follow the thread for news and "bantz."
A


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Actually, no!
> A recent Studio Series purchase plus a new baby in the house has kinda put the brakes on.
> As a Spitfire fan, BBC fan and stiff-upper-lip brit, it's 100% inevitable that I'll take the plunge at some point, perhaps later in the year if the music-income gods are kind.
> 
> In the meantime, I'm happy to follow the thread for news and "bantz."
> A


Makes sense. Might be better to jump on it later when some updates and bug fixes have been sorted, and the noise has subsided a bit.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Just listening to S2E1 back from April where they interview Bear McCreary. It’s such a fascinating conversation. It’s partly why I posted a track from 10 Cloverfield Lane yesterday because he was taught by one of the greats - Elmer Bernstein. I think it’s so important that these skills are passed on and there is a direct link with past present and future composers. It’s also why I value this forum so highly because it’s populated by so many great talents and the wealth of knowledge, level support and collaboration is invaluable. Yes, I do post too much stupid stuff. But I also read a lot of fantastic posts and value this community very highly. I think there is sometimes too much negativity. It’s important that we remain respectful and helpful, rather than demean and belittle. I have read some very harsh comments on other threads and think they crossed the line. Yes, be honest, but do so without getting personal.
> 
> Sorry, went on a bit there haha!
> 
> (P.S. Those last comments are not directed at you synkrotron - just talking generally!)



This is absolute bollocks. As far as I’m concerned you’ve NEVER posted anything remotely stupid. 

Lining up a link to “Revolution 9” for later I hope?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Makes sense. Might be better to jump on it later when some updates and bug fixes have been sorted, and the noise has subsided a bit.


Very kind of you to make me try and feel better about it! Genuinely looking forward to the excitement as everyone gets hold of the library for the first time and hoping that things don't take a sharp turn towards the dark side.

I'll be watching. Refreshing the thread whilst troughing on popcorn/a certain brand of chocolate usually purchased around Christmas.


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> This is absolute bollocks. As far as I’m concerned you’ve NEVER posted anything remotely stupid.
> 
> Lining up a link to “Revolution 9” for later I hope?


How dare you...you...oh....was getting ready for a fight after that first sentence...glad I read on. lol Thanks man. 



It’s on the shortlist. We’ll see...


----------



## Loïc D

Alex Fraser said:


> Very kind of you to make me try and feel better about it! Genuinely looking forward to the excitement as everyone gets hold of the library for the first time and hoping that things don't take a sharp turn towards the dark side.
> 
> I'll be watching. Refreshing the thread whilst troughing on popcorn/a certain brand of chocolate usually purchased around Christmas.


We’re on the same boat.

I won’t be buying it right now but probably later, when my I issue my new yearly music budget. Usually around BF/Xmas. 

And also, I bought SStB pro & SStW pro this year and want to use them more before replacing them...


----------



## SupremeFist

ERIC VALETTE said:


> Hi all,
> 
> My post il a little HS but note that if you actually enter the code "score" at the time of payment, you get an additional 30% discount on nearly all Spitfire Audio products on their site, (except the new BBCSO), even those already enjoying a promotional offer ... in fact up to 60% off some products!
> 
> Enjoy!


Doesn't work for me. :(


----------



## thebob

synkrotron said:


> The "advertising" is where the promo code for discount on SA products was announced, back at the start of October. The promo code is mentioned near the beginning of the podcast and near the end.


ah, thanx for clarifying I thought the advertising wan't even your doing. 
still does not explain how it is possible that I've missed a spitfire sale or why I have such a shitty karma that I got the info just after it was out of date..


----------



## AndyP

Zedcars said:


> Bonus track:
> He-Man Sings "Heyeayea" Song for 10 hours straight:


Ok, I've had a complete look at the video now, but I still don't see how you can do the song better with BBCSO. Maybe it'll be better if I watch it again?


----------



## synthetic

Junkie XL is working on a brass library, that should take care of your _ffffff_ needs. I heard they borrowed every tire shop pneumatic air gun in Berlin to hook up to the 28 horns.


----------



## Zedcars

AndyP said:


> Ok, I've had a complete look at the video now, but I still don't see how you can do the song better with BBCSO. Maybe it'll be better if I watch it again?


Yes, some things are always better upon a second listen. Pay particular attention to bar 59,724 - it brought a tear to my eye.


----------



## AndyP

Zedcars said:


> Yes, some things are always better upon a second listen. Pay particular attention to bar 59,724 - it brought a tear to my eye.


Okay, good idea. I'll answer tomorrow ... but first, I have to find some handkerchiefs.


----------



## Hadrondrift

synthetic said:


> Junkie XL is working on a brass library, that should take care of your _ffffff_ needs. I heard they borrowed every tire shop pneumatic air gun in Berlin to hook up to the 28 horns.



Maybe they're using some Japanese war tubas from the 1930s. Not easy to sample true ffffffff legato with those, though.


----------



## Chungus

Hadrondrift said:


> Maybe they're using some Japanese war tubas from the 1930s. Not easy to sample true ffffffff legato with those, though.


Mother of God. The things people come up with. lol.


----------



## yellowtone

Alex Fraser said:


> Actually, no!
> A recent Studio Series purchase plus a new baby in the house has kinda put the brakes on.
> As a Spitfire fan, BBC fan and stiff-upper-lip brit, it's 100% inevitable that I'll take the plunge at some point, perhaps later in the year if the music-income gods are kind.
> 
> In the meantime, I'm happy to follow the thread for news and "bantz."
> A



I'm in a somewhat different situation... I preordered BBCSO, but as my family and I are repatriating back to the US this week, and my computer/keyboard won't arrive until early-mid November, I will have the SSD in my hands and no way to use it while I listen/drool/cry over all the great music starting to appear on VI. I'll will be taking copious notes though... so still very excited for the launch day.


----------



## Zedcars

T-Minus...


Symphony No. 9 in D minor, Op. 125, (1824) 4th Movement (condensed version) by Ludwig van Beethoven.
*Flash Mob* performance in Plaça de Sant Roc, Sabadell, Spain by Vallès Symphony Orchestra, the Lieder, Amics de l'Òpera and Coral Belles Arts choirs on 19th May 2012:




"Blue Rondo à la Turk" by The Dave Brubeck Quartet in 9/8 time, played as 2+2+2+3 and 3+3+3, with some alternating sections of 4/4. Released in 1959; this performance is from 1962:




John Lennon talks about "Revolution 9" (1968) by The Beatles (duh!). Interview from 1974:




Bonus track:
9 Hours of: 639 Hz Solfeggio Frequency to Attract Love ❤ & Raise Positive Energy
(read some of the Youtube comments for a giggle):





9 is the only positive perfect power that is one more than another positive perfect power, by Mihăilescu's Theorem.
In Mesoamerican mythology, The Lords of the Night is a group of nine deities who each ruled over every ninth night forming a calendrical cycle.
The Mayan underworld Xibalba consists of nine levels.
In J. R. R. Tolkien's Middle-earth, there are nine rings of power given to men, and consequently, nine ringwraiths. Additionally, The Fellowship of the Ring consists of nine companions.
There was a superstition among some notable classical music composers that they would die after completing their ninth symphony. Some composers who died after composing their ninth symphony include Ludwig van Beethoven, Anton Bruckner, Antonin Dvorak and Gustav Mahler.


----------



## synkrotron

M81

8+1 = 9

Music in this video has sections = 9 bars rather than 8 (although no one on the Interwebs noticed...)


----------



## MarcHedenberg

Well, I did it. I pre-ordered.

God have mercy on my soul.


----------



## Loïc D

99 Luftballons ? (Yeah I know I'm old...)


----------



## jonvog

ok. did it too. let's hope, it was the right decision  looking forward to the 24th now...


----------



## Fleer

LowweeK said:


> 99 Luftballons ? (Yeah I know I'm old...)


I’ll sing you a song


----------



## NoamL

Finally caught up, reading this thread while nursing a cold, and - hey, maybe my ears are off - but the brass walkthrough sounded pretty damn good! 

if you compare the horns top dynamic at 1:06 (long) vs 0:30 (legato) vs 2:44 (cuivre) you can hear the difference between the top dynamics. Same for comparing the trumpets cuivre (10:02) to normal longs (9:35).

I think the dynamics are widely sampled enough to be serviceable and not limiting. The lowest dynamics are really nice... like they're barely resonating their instruments. Fortissimo seems available unless my sense of balance is all off.


----------



## redlester

Is this the longest this thread has gone without a post? Are we losing interest?

Come on Paul, where are those woodwinds and percussion!?


----------



## jamwerks

If you took out all the BS and "is this the longest thread" posts, there probably wouldn't even be 30 pages...


----------



## dzilizzi

jamwerks said:


> If you took out all the BS and "is this the longest thread" posts, there probably wouldn't even be 30 pages...


Now where would the fun be in that?


----------



## synthetic

The BS is the best part. You can get the specs on their website.


----------



## Zedcars

synthetic said:


> The BS is the best part. You can get the specs on their website.


Who’s website?


----------



## synkrotron

What is BS? I don't think I have that library.


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> Is this the longest this thread has gone without a post? Are we losing interest?
> 
> Come on Paul, where are those woodwinds and percussion!?


Yes, I think the thread needs some fresh walkthrough fodder to get our chops stuck into.

That’s the trouble when you have such a long build up. Has any previous library had this long between announcement and release before?


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Has any previous library had this long between announcement and release before?



Does this count?


> One of the first challenges for the new British Library in 1973 was to find a premises to bring together these disparate collections and institutions.
> 
> An old rail goods yard in St Pancras would become our home. Opening its doors to the public in November 1997...


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> Yes, I think the thread needs some fresh walkthrough fodder to get our chops stuck into.
> 
> That’s the trouble when you have such a long build up. Has any previous library had this long between announcement and release before?


I'm wondering if the reason they announced it so early was because someone let something slip in one of their blogs or posts. They were very excited about it and it is hard to keep a secret when it gets closer to reveal date. Just better to make an official announcement. 

Do they ever send out copies to early reviewers? I know they have enough people in house that can do multiple types of walkthroughs. But I sometimes like an outside perspective.


----------



## jamwerks

There's supposedly a video by Christian & Jake coming discussing reverb technics with this new library. And maybe there'll be' a video accompaying an upcoming classical mock-up?


----------



## synkrotron

The SA Peeps could probably do another five focused tours around BBC SO and still not cover everything...


----------



## Zedcars

jamwerks said:


> There's supposedly a video by Christian & Jake coming discussing reverb technics with this new library. And maybe there'll be' a video accompaying an upcoming classical mock-up?


Sounds exciting. 

I'd love to hear a pro mockup from the classical repertoire. There are tons of those types of things on VSL's website. However, Spitfire tend to have specially composed pieces which are more aimed at film music - understandable considering it's their MO. I'd be surprised, but delighted if there was a classical mockup in the works.


----------



## synkrotron

Zedcars said:


> Spitfire tend to have specially composed pieces which are more aimed at film music



Another reason for sticking to that kind of stuff is they can cover quite a bit of ground in just a short two minute piece, sample wise, and not worry too much about a more longform piece and all that comes with it.


----------



## Zedcars

T-Minus...


"L’ultima diligenza di Red Rock [The Last Stage to Red Rock] (Versione Integrale)" from Tarantino's The Hateful *Eight* movie (2015). Composed, orchestrated and conducted by Ennio Morricone, it was his first score for a Western film since Buddy Goes West (19*8*1). It features notable horror references including Morricone's repurposed score from John Carpenter's The Thing (19*8*2) and "Regan's Theme" from The Exorcist II, which serve the sinister mood:





"Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta" (1936) by Béla Bartók.
Movement I, bars 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 19, 22, 26–27, 29, 3*8*–40, 46, 53, 69, 71, 73, 75, *8*3, and *8*5 are in *8*/*8* interspersed with 5/*8*, 6/*8*, 7/*8*, 9/*8*, 10/*8*, 11/*8*, and 12/*8*.
Movement IV, also has *8*/*8* in bars 204, 207, 210, 213.

I think Movement I is a beautiful, mesmerising piece of music:





Back To The Future - Delorean Time Machine Hits *88* MPH (19*8*5). Music by Alan Silvestri. Listen to the music cue at the 1 minute mark - absolutely nails it! This is my favourite movie of all time, and I think I credit the score to getting me interested in composing for the orchestra. His score for Part II and III are also worth checking out if you haven't already (I suspect you've all heard it though!):





*8* is a Fibonacci number, being 3 plus 5. The next Fibonacci number is 13. *8* is the only positive Fibonacci number, aside from 1, that is a perfect cube.
The dimension of the *octonions* and is the highest possible dimension of a normed division algebra.
In particle physics, the *eightfold* way is used to classify sub-atomic particles.
*8* is the atomic number of oxygen.
Timothy Leary identified a hierarchy of *eight* levels of consciousness.
The number *eight* is considered to be a lucky number in Chinese and other Asian cultures. *Eight* (八; accounting 捌; pinyin bā) is considered a lucky number in Chinese culture because it sounds like the word meaning to generate wealth (發(T) 发(S); Pinyin: fā). Property with the number *8* may be valued greatly by Chinese. For example, a Hong Kong number plate with the number *8* was sold for $640,000. The opening ceremony of the Summer Olympics in Beijing started at *8* seconds and *8* minutes past *8* pm (local time) on *8* *August* 200*8*.


----------



## Zedcars

Posted yesterday on SA’s twitter account...


----------



## synkrotron

Looks very "DIY!"


----------



## jbuhler

synkrotron said:


> Looks very "DIY!"


Cutting edge copying process going on there.


----------



## synkrotron

jbuhler said:


> Cutting edge copying process going on there.



I'll take your word for it


----------



## Portland

If I buy ten copies, will they throw in a USB hub?


----------



## synkrotron

Portland said:


> If I buy ten copies, will they throw in a USB hub?



No


----------



## Portland




----------



## PerryD

I have pre-ordered so I can finally realize my dream of creating an orchestral collection of Marty Robbins' greatest hits.


----------



## PerryD

PerryD said:


> I have pre-ordered so I can finally realize my dream of creating an orchestral collection of Marty Robbins' greatest hits.



I originally wanted to do an orchestral collection of the works of Europe...but hey, tastes change.


----------



## gussunkri

I finally caved and pre-ordered this evening.


----------



## CT

I awoke this morning with a profound sense of longing and dissatisfaction. I can only attribute this to my not having pre-ordered yet.


----------



## synkrotron

miket said:


> I awoke this morning with a profound sense of longing and dissatisfaction. I can only attribute this to my not having pre-ordered yet.



Hi, Mike!

I think I know what you mean... I am somewhat disappointed that I neither have the funds or the skills to own this wonderful collection of instruments and so have resigned myself to basking in the joy of others here who have pre-ordered.

If you are indeed intended to add this to your collection then there is plenty of time left to take advantage of the current discount.

I am listening to a few pieces off your Travelogue album as I catch up here. Lovely stuff 🎶 

cheers

andy


----------



## mikeh-375

yes, I'd love to hear a classical mock-up. Is that on the cards @jamwerks ?


----------



## CT

synkrotron said:


> Hi, Mike!
> 
> I think I know what you mean... I am somewhat disappointed that I neither have the funds or the skills to own this wonderful collection of instruments and so have resigned myself to basking in the joy of others here who have pre-ordered.
> 
> If you are indeed intended to add this to your collection then there is plenty of time left to take advantage of the current discount.
> 
> I am listening to a few pieces off your Travelogue album as I catch up here. Lovely stuff 🎶
> 
> cheers
> 
> andy



Someone mentioning listening to my music in the BBCSO thread is probably as close to "making it" as I'll ever get. Thank you!


----------



## oboemaroni

I had an answer from Spitfire about the dynamic layers, they said it was difficult to say as there's a lot of variation but that "longer techniques can be 2-3 dynamics , depending on the instrument and timbrel range, but the instrument's attack or release can be augmented by additional layers or round robins, as well as techniques under the hood that allow smooth transition between them". Not sure how different this is from their other libraries, hope it's helpful to those of you who were asking about this. I'm actually more interested in the quiet end of the dynamic spectrum, will listen again to what they've posted so far to see if I think it's something I want to invest in or not.


----------



## Sovereign

oboemaroni said:


> I'm actually more interested in the quiet end of the dynamic spectrum, will listen again to what they've posted so far to see if I think it's something I want to invest in or not.


Well let's be realistic. If the dynamics are 2 to 3 layers at most, that leaves little room for the quiet end of the spectrum. A good guess is they recorded P or MP, MF and F at best. 3 layers might just be acceptable. 2 might be acceptable depending on the playing technique. It is still disappointing though given how great everything sounds. I'll hope they will add more dynamics in the future, at least for the regular (legato) longs and shorts.


----------



## synkrotron

miket said:


> Thank you!



Not a problem 

I ended up listening to the complete album. I have to listen to more stuff like this to get an idea of what Peeps are doing with their libraries... I have so much to learn


----------



## widekeys

oboemaroni said:


> I had an answer from Spitfire about the dynamic layers, they said it was difficult to say as there's a lot of variation but that "longer techniques can be 2-3 dynamics , depending on the instrument and timbrel range, but the instrument's attack or release can be augmented by additional layers or round robins, as well as techniques under the hood that allow smooth transition between them". Not sure how different this is from their other libraries, hope it's helpful to those of you who were asking about this. I'm actually more interested in the quiet end of the dynamic spectrum, will listen again to what they've posted so far to see if I think it's something I want to invest in or not.


So it is 2 layers for the strings, if the vibrato was recorded per layer (4 voices played on the long patch per note => 2 per vibrato rate).


----------



## fahl5

I am not already at the point to finally judge the amount of dynamic layers for the following resaons:
1) Of course we need in an orchestra good dynamic layers to come to allow a convincing spectrum of instrumental colours so 2-3 seem not pretty much compared to VSL-Synchron with even 6 more Layers.
2) As we have learned from the obviously also in this Forum pretty unlucky received VSL Synchron-Strings that the number of layers and the GB's spent on your SSD and in your RAM is no garant of getting "the" convincing Sound.
3) If you keep in mind how RAM and CPU-hungry the most ambitious Orchestral libraries nowadays are (EW Hollywood, VSL-Synchron, Spitfire the Pro-Versions or Expansions) than you know, that the RAM and HDD-Space requirements always could make using those libraries the more a clumsy mess as they approach to the limit of your hardware. Therefor it seems to me reasonable to keep things resource efficient. Very good current Libraries like CSS, are not necessarily the largest when it comes to memory and SSD requirements.

So lets pray that enough inspiration came down on to the Spitfire-recording engineers (and Software developpers), while producing this library to let them find the right balance between usability and the rich and versatile spectrum of orchestral colours one would expect to receive from an experienced orchestra like the BBC SO.


----------



## jamwerks

Some instruments don't change timbral color that much between dynamics, so maybe 2 for those. Earlier I stated here CSB was 5 layers. I went back and looked and it's 4 (not 5). I'd say 3 is pretty standard for getting a good picture of the instrument.


----------



## Ruffian Price

Sovereign said:


> I'll hope they will add more dynamics in the future, at least for the regular (legato) longs and shorts.


I'm pretty sure we can only take what's currently there or leave, at least in terms of recordings. We might get some "lowpass filter on 1-32 CC1" patch updates, but nothing that would require Spitfire and BBC to collaborate again to fill possible gaps in an already planned and realized product.

_Get your microphones and assemble everybody on site. We're recording second violins pianissimo._

I mean, Maida Vale Studios are closing down. This is it.


----------



## Alex Fraser

fahl5 said:


> I am not already at the point to finally judge the amount of dynamic layers for the following resaons:
> 1) Of course we need in an orchestra good dynamic layers to come to allow a convincing spectrum of instrumental colours so 2-3 seem not pretty much compared to VSL-Synchron with even 6 more Layers.
> 2) As we have learned from the obviously also in this Forum pretty unlucky received VSL Synchron-Strings that the number of layers and the GB's spent on your SSD and in your RAM is no garant of getting "the" convincing Sound.
> 3) If you keep in mind how RAM and CPU-hungry the most ambitious Orchestral libraries nowadays are (EW Hollywood, VSL-Synchron, Spitfire the Pro-Versions or Expansions) than you know, that the RAM and HDD-Space requirements always could make using those libraries the more a clumsy mess as they approach to the limit of your hardware. Therefor it seems to me reasonable to keep things resource efficient. Very good current Libraries like CSS, are not necessarily the largest when it comes to memory and SSD requirements.
> 
> So lets pray that enough inspiration came down on to the Spitfire-recording engineers (and Software developpers), while producing this library to let them find the right balance between usability and the rich and versatile spectrum of orchestral colours one would expect to receive from an experienced orchestra like the BBC SO.


Good points.

Spitfire, the recording engineers, the musicians (the BBCSO, people!) and developers are all best placed to make the decisions on dynamic layers, sound and all the rest of it. The best approach is to accept this and work with what's on offer. All indications so far is that what's on offer is rather tasty.


----------



## oboemaroni

For me it's this, an NI Kontrol board or money towards a new DSLR... Still haven't decided but with the latter two I can at least return or resell down the line if they don't work out for me.


----------



## Zedcars

Ruffian Price said:


> I'm pretty sure we can only take what's currently there or leave, at least in terms of recordings. We might get some "lowpass filter on 1-32 CC1" patch updates, but nothing that would require Spitfire and BBC to collaborate again to fill possible gaps in an already planned and realized product.
> 
> _Get your microphones and assemble everybody on site. We're recording second violins pianissimo._
> 
> I mean, Maida Vale Studios are closing down. This is it.


The closure is not happening yet. However, the exact date is hard to pinpoint (maybe Christian or Paul know). A Guardian article says the facilities will be relocated by 2023,









BBC to close Maida Vale studios and move live music base to east London


World-famous studios have hosted thousands of performances ranging from the Beatles to Beyoncé




www.theguardian.com





and a Pitchfork article says this:



> BBC director general Tony Hall told staff in an email that Maida Vale will be replaced by a state-of-the-art facility in east London. It’s expected to be ready by 2022.











BBC Closing Its Historic Maida Vale Studios


Artists rally behind London complex that’s hosted BBC performances since the 1930s




pitchfork.com





A BBC article also says 2022.









BBC to leave iconic Maida Vale studios - BBC News


The studios, which have hosted sessions by The Beatles and Adele, will be moved to east London.




www.bbc.co.uk





So there is certainly time to go back and record things. Obviously they wouldn’t go back and just record pianissimo strings. But maybe they could record expansions or even other libraries that could be bought separately. Seems it would be imperative to do so given the fate of the venue.


----------



## Sovereign

fahl5 said:


> Very good current Libraries like CSS, are not necessarily the largest when it comes to memory and SSD requirements.


CSS sampled many articulations (not all) in four dynamics.


----------



## jaketanner

Sovereign said:


> CSS sampled many articulations (not all) in four dynamics.


I have a piano library that has 36 velocity layers..granted not the same as a string section, but this also leads me to believe that there aren't many velocities on strings that are "discernible"? I mean once you hit 5-6 dynamic layers on a violin, from pp to ff, what's left? There are of course various degrees of each, but that's usually covered in the crossfades. If a library does indeed recorded say 20 different layers, is there even room on the mod wheel or most sliders to even be able to get those smoothly?


----------



## synkrotron

BBC Solo Strings would be nice


----------



## JohnG

The comment about three dynamic layers sounded like a minimum, not a maximum. I don't think we can dust off our hands and say, "that's it" from a single forum post about "some" long samples.

Besides, a handful of speculative posts have in some cases evolved into Dead Certainty about layers -- I haven't seen anything from Spitfire that gives detail on the topic.

And anyway -- "Admiral Benbow......"


----------



## Alex Fraser

JohnG said:


> And anyway -- "Admiral Benbow......"


Haha, yep. Anytime the forum gets bogged down in debating specifics, I just flick over to the Spitfire site and listen to that track, thinking: _"Yes. But the library can do this.."_


----------



## fahl5

jaketanner said:


> I have a piano library that has 36 velocity layers..granted not the same as a string section, but this also leads me to believe that there aren't many velocities on strings that are "discernible"? I mean once you hit 5-6 dynamic layers on a violin, from pp to ff, what's left? There are of course various degrees of each, but that's usually covered in the crossfades. If a library does indeed recorded say 20 different layers, is there even room on the mod wheel or most sliders to even be able to get those smoothly?


As soon you can hear the change from dynamic layer to the next, either your way to crossfade them is bad, or you simply have have to few.
@ BBC Solo Strings
It is already very nice to have Firstchair Soloists included, you can already presumably use them in many occasions for what you otherwise would have chosen a solostring-Library


----------



## fahl5

JohnG said:


> And anyway -- "Admiral Benbow......"


A cute and pretty full and vivid demo i must confess, but to be honest, it would be presumably more demanding for a dedicated Orchestra sample library if it would really cover also all the reduced combinations an orchestra should also be able to, to let us hear the Wind soloists the different stringsections if they will still convince, if we hear them allone or nearly allone.
I think however stirring Admiral Benbow might sound, it is at leat not necessary the most "informative" kind of Demo.


----------



## jamwerks

They've got enough time to record 15 or more major libraries in there (MV) before it's over. They probably already have 3 or 4 in the box !


----------



## redlester

I think we may soon be deluged with Spitfire videos, they’ve been relatively quiet for a week or two, especially Christian. The introductory price ends 3 weeks on Monday and you would expect all the marketing material to be out at least a week or more before that. I keep going back to the site to check for the user manual link but nothing so far.


----------



## fahl5

jamwerks said:


> They've got enough time to record 15 or more major libraries in there (MV) before it's over. They probably already have 3 or 4 in the box !


They seem to stress that the BBC SO "is just the Beginning", of whatever might follow. But after what we know is already included in BBC SO, I personally have not the least Idea what that might.


----------



## Bluemount Score

synkrotron said:


> BBC Solo Strings would be nice


There are Solo Strings / leaders in BBCSO included


----------



## synkrotron

Bluemount Score said:


> There are Solo Strings / leaders in BBCSO included



Ah, yes, what I really meant to say, and I was on my phone at the time, in a bit of a rush, is it would be nice if some of those solo instruments in the BBC SO were released as a separate instrument for those of us who cannot justify the full cost of BBC SO similar to how SA released the performance patch of their Solo Strings library.

Ain't gonna happen, I know. And, ironically, I bought the Solo Violin library on October 10th and on the 11th I got the Solo Strings.

cheers

andy


----------



## JohnG

fahl5 said:


> I think however stirring Admiral Benbow might sound, it is at leat not necessary the most "informative" kind of Demo.



Well, suit yourself. I think Andy's demo demonstrates how _musical_ the library can be. Along with the walkthroughs that they usually produce, and coupled with the other demos already available, I find it one of the most convincing and enjoyable libraries I've heard.

If one focuses on maximum layers, go for Hollywood Strings and that 127 layer sampled VSL piano. 

Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of sensitivity too, but I'm sure you'd agree that there is a lot more to making music with samples than the number of layers.


----------



## jamwerks

fahl5 said:


> They seem to stress that the BBC SO "is just the Beginning", of whatever might follow. But after what we know is already included in BBC SO, I personally have not the least Idea what that might.


I'm sorry to see that you're not religously reading all my posts!  See post #2572 on page 129.


----------



## synkrotron

jamwerks said:


> I'm sorry to see that you're not religously reading all my posts!



Neither am I... My Bad!  

So many posts!!






Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


Yeah, it's definitely the choir next march direction too..




vi-control.net





Anyway, I took "just the beginning" to mean, the beginning of the process of collaborating with all the other Peeps who have bought into BBCSO. Perhaps I misunderstood


----------



## fahl5

JohnG said:


> Well, suit yourself. I think Andy's demo demonstrates how _musical_ the library can be. Along with the walkthroughs that they usually produce, and coupled with the other demos already available, I find it one of the most convincing and enjoyable libraries I've heard.
> 
> If one focuses on maximum layers, go for Hollywood Strings and that 127 layer sampled VSL piano.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of sensitivity too, but I'm sure you'd agree that there is a lot more to making music with samples than the number of layers.


Dont get me wrong, I do have also very high hopes in that seemingly as brilliant as promising Library and already preordered it for all the details we already know about it. I just wanted to indicate, that how ever great Andy's Admiral-Demo is, there is very much still left to explore when it comes out, to verify if it meets the high hopes it already has risen. So I am currently pretty optimistic about but still there are many things which could presumably not answered before being able to work with it.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I'm going to sign out of this thread now until release day when I will tune back in, as you lot are attempting to make me buy a library I don't require. 

I'll leave you with this though. Post release, *I promise to Amazon Prime a tin of Quality Street to the first (UK based) member who posts an audio example of the sleigh bells, ALL MICS.*

You can hold me to this. Laters!
A


----------



## dzilizzi

Alex Fraser said:


> I'm going to sign out of this thread now until release day when I will tune back in, as you lot are attempting to make me buy a library I don't require.
> 
> I'll leave you with this though. Post release, *I promise to Amazon Prime a tin of Quality Street to the first (UK based) member who posts an audio example of the sleigh bells, ALL MICS.*
> 
> You can hold me to this. Laters!
> A


Well, darn. That leaves me out. Being as how I am in the US and am not planning on buying the BBCSO until it goes on the wishlist sale. 

I can wait. I have too much stuff as it is and not enough chops to use what I have competently.


----------



## erica-grace

JohnG said:


> The comment about three dynamic layers sounded like a minimum, not a .



No - that's definitely maximum. If they had 5 layers for s few things, they are only going to say 2-3? No - the'd say 5.

Personally, 2 layers (which, if you read into it, is really what it's going to be) is not nearly enough. And for those of you who think there is not that much of a timbral change when the strings play p - f, just have a listen to Cinesamples Cinestrings. Get out the manual, and play so that you hear only one layer at a time (this is possible). Then you will hear a definitive difference between layers.


----------



## AndyP

I thought at some point I'd have to get an update for my sleigh bells in EWHO. But yesterday, when I started a song for the Xmas sale, I was immediately in love with them again.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> I'm going to sign out of this thread now until release day when I will tune back in, as you lot are attempting to make me buy a library I don't require.
> 
> I'll leave you with this though. Post release, *I promise to Amazon Prime a tin of Quality Street to the first (UK based) member who posts an audio example of the sleigh bells, ALL MICS.*
> 
> You can hold me to this. Laters!
> A


You’ve stuck with this mega gargantuan proportion thread for over seven weeks totalling over 3,600 posts and you decide to bow out now?...just as we’re approaching the final week? :emoji_astonished:Think of all those BS posts you’ll miss!

By the way, rumour has it that Paul’s next video will be entitled:

*BBC Symphony Orchestra — Sleigh Bell Walkthrough*

...it _was_ going to be the Woodwinds, but he’s had to hastily reshoot it when he saw your offer!


----------



## oboemaroni

erica-grace said:


> No - that's definitely maximum. If they had 5 layers for s few things, they are only going to say 2-3? No - the'd say 5.
> 
> Personally, 2 layers (which, if you read into it, is really what it's going to be) is not nearly enough. And for those of you who think there is not that much of a timbral change when the strings play p - f, just have a listen to Cinesamples Cinestrings. Get out the manual, and play so that you hear only one layer at a time (this is possible). Then you will hear a definitive difference between layers.


Yeah I think that's the case too, it's a shame as I love the idea of an all-in-one library, but potentially only having 2 layers is I think too much of a risk for me given the lack of a resale option.


----------



## fahl5

dzilizzi said:


> Well, darn. That leaves me out. Being as how I am in the US and am not planning on buying the BBCSO until it goes on the wishlist sale.
> 
> I can wait. I have too much stuff as it is and not enough chops to use what I have competently.


I fear you would not get it that much cheaper on the whishlist as you can get in the preorder. I even would expect, that they would keep such a recently released product of from any Wishlist reductions what would make you wait another year or two.

....and until than (as fast as Spitfire release one sampled Orchestra after another) they would presumably already have released the sampled Version of the american Big Five:
New York Philharmonic
Boston Symphony Orchestra
Chicago Symphony Orchestra
Philadelphia Orchestra
Cleveland Orchestra
while you are still waitung for your BBC SO Whishlistprice.....


----------



## cqd

The layers thing is very disappointing..you can definitely hear it in the strings too..
It'll be a shame if the library lets itself down in this respect...
I'm kind of questioning my pre-order already..


----------



## dzilizzi

fahl5 said:


> I fear you would not get it that much cheaper on the whishlist as you can get in the preorder. I even would expect, that they would keep such a recently released product of from any Wishlist reductions what would make you wait another year or two.
> 
> ....and until than (as fast as Spitfire release one sampled Orchestra after another) they would presumably already have released the sampled Version of the american Big Five:
> New York Philharmonic
> Boston Symphony Orchestra
> Chicago Symphony Orchestra
> Philadelphia Orchestra
> Cleveland Orchestra
> while you are still waitung for your BBC SO Whishlistprice.....


I figured the May sale is earliest it will be on sale. I'm okay with that. I bought SSO last Christmas and HWO Diamond at Black Friday or slightly before. I'm still having fun with them. 

But if they get the Boston Pops that would be really cool.


----------



## Michael Stibor

Without starting a new thread about it, I'm curious what is attracting people to this program since I'm assuming you all have orchestral programs already.

For me it's the tone. It has a vintage quality to it from what I've heard so far, but I might be wrong about that.

Also, as someone that struggles with mixing, EQing, and creating depth, I'm hoping that whole "all in one" aspect and the different mic options can help take a lot of the guess work out of my mixes.


----------



## sostenuto

Zedcars said:


> You’ve stuck with this mega gargantuan proportion thread for over seven weeks totalling over 3,600 posts and you decide to bow out now?...just as we’re approaching the final week? :emoji_astonished:Think of all those BS posts you’ll miss!
> 
> By the way, rumour has it that Paul’s next video will be entitled:
> 
> *BBC Symphony Orchestra — Sleigh Bell Walkthrough*
> 
> ...it _was_ going to be the Woodwinds, but he’s had to hastily reshoot it when he saw your offer!



_Did you mean_ ..... *BBC Symphony Orchestra --- I'm Very Excited Sleigh Bell Wallthrough*


----------



## JohnG

erica-grace said:


> No - that's definitely maximum. If they had 5 layers for s few things, they are only going to say 2-3? No - the'd say 5.



Who is the "they" here? I haven't seen anyone from Spitfire comment in detail on this issue; on the contrary, I see mostly speculation and hearsay. Moreover, if Spitfire were to announce, "each patch has x layers," there's ONE patch that only has "x-minus 1" -- like a drum or something -- there would be some goofball complaining to the EU commissioner over it.

So that would explain why they -- and other libraries -- understandably shy away from giving a specific number.



erica-grace said:


> Personally, 2 layers (which, if you read into it, is really what it's going to be) is not nearly enough. And for those of you who think there is not that much of a timbral change when the strings play p - f, just have a listen to Cinesamples Cinestrings. Get out the manual, and play so that you hear only one layer at a time (this is possible). Then you will hear a definitive difference between layers.



Erica, I'm sure you mean well, but if you think people here can't hear what sounds good or bad, I think you're underestimating your audience.

What I do know is that there are flautando patches, cuivre patches, and others that cover a wide range of playing styles and dynamics. I use that kind of thing every day, as I'm sure many here do.

Besides, irrespective of any technical hoo-ha, the demos show that this library can play a healthy range of music, convincingly.


----------



## dzilizzi

mikefrommontreal said:


> Without starting a new thread about it, I'm curious what is attracting people to this program since I'm assuming you all have orchestral programs already.
> 
> For me it's the tone has a vintage quality to it from what I've heard so far, but I might be wrong about that.
> 
> Also, as someone that struggles with mixing, EQing, and creating depth, I'm hoping that whole "all in one" aspect and the different mic options can help take a lot of the guess work out of my mixes.


This. I haven't got the hang of placement yet. From the way this is recorded, you could potentially not have to worry whether everything is in the right spot. Also, it is a group of players who have worked together for years. I am assuming the sound will go together better than a group of studio musicians who may never have worked together previously in a strange studio and who are recorded separately from the other sections or even other instruments. And it is all in the same hall, probably close in time, so not a lot of changes between recordings. 

Most of your other orchestras, it may be years between sections being recorded. (Thinking of the issues with HWO Woodwinds) I'm expecting Spitfire not to have this type of problem with this orchestra.


----------



## AEF

the selling point IMO is the room, the premade and balanced template offered via Logic, the full orchestra instrumentation, all at a cheap price. looking forward to the WW demo bc from the overview it seemed the strongest section by quite a bit.


----------



## Zedcars

T-Minus...


"The Theme from Magnificent *Seven*" (1960) by Elmer Berstein, performed by The Orchestra at Temple Square, Salt Lake City, Utah (2015):





"Money" (19*7*3) by Pink Floyd is in *7*/4 time. Live performance from 2005, at the 'Live 8 London' event, Hyde Park:





"*Seven* Nation Army" by The White Stripes, live at Rock am Ring, Nürburg 200*7*:





Bonus Track:
*7* hours of Karl Pilkington giving his opinion on things and discussing various topics, with Ricky Gervais & Steve Merchant, from the XFM radio show and podcasts:





There are *7* principal energy levels for electrons around the nucleus.
*7* is the lowest dimension of a known exotic sphere, although there may exist as yet unknown exotic smooth structures on the 4-dimensional sphere.
In Red Dwarf II episode "Parallel Universe", Holly forgets the number *7* in a countdown for the Holly Hop Drive. After Rimmer reminds him, he admits he has "a blind spot for *sevens*".
There are *7* days left until Christian and Paul reveal this was all an elaborate hoax, and instead of a new library, we actually get a lifetime's supply of Quality Street.


----------



## Michael Stibor

AEF said:


> the selling point IMO is the room, *the premade and balanced template offered via Logic*...



Oh yeah, what was that again? Or where can I read/watch more about this feature?


----------



## AEF

mikefrommontreal said:


> Oh yeah, what was that again? Or where can I read/watch more about this feature?



check out christians youtube. 

my understanding is they are giving away a free template, pre routed and balanced. there will be different versions to accommodate 1 track per art, all in articulation tracks, and hybrids of both methods where longs and shorts are separate.

for logic users a truly plug and play system. 

id gladly pay 2 times as much for 2 times the dynamic layers, however.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> There are *7* days left until Christian and Paul reveal this was all an elaborate hoax, and instead of a new library, we actually get a lifetime's supply of Quality Street.



I've given this post a love heart simply because of Karl. Although am wary of mentioning Love Hearts in case the thread veers into discussion of sugary/fruit flavoured confectionary!

There are actually 8 more sleeps before release day (including tonight), are you planning some facts about "zero" for next Wednesday?


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> I've given this post a love heart simply because of Karl. Although am wary of mentioning Love Hearts in case the thread veers into discussion of sugary/fruit flavoured confectionary!
> 
> There are actually 8 more sleeps before release day (including tonight), are you planning some facts about "zero" for next Wednesday?


Thanks. Karl should replace one of the *7* wonders as a wonder in his own right...such a brilliant mind.

Yeah, I’m aware I’m ahead a bit. But, I can do a zero, plus there might be something else coming from me on launch day...


----------



## erica-grace

JohnG said:


> Who is the "they" here? I haven't seen anyone from Spitfire comment in detail on this issue;



"They" means Spitfire. In your post - the one I was responding to - you said, "The comment about three dynamic layers sounded like a minimum, not a maximum." Was that not in reference to something Spitfire said? It sounded like it, especilally withnothing in that post preceding it. If not, I apologize.



JohnG said:


> Erica, I'm sure you mean well, but if you think people here can't hear what sounds good or bad, I think you're underestimating your audience.



Most people here can't hear what sounds good or bad. A few people on here have a good deal of experience with libraries vs. real orchestras, and real orchestras vs. libraries. THOSE people know what sounds good and bad. But the vast majority of the rest of the forum membership doesn't have that experience, and simply does not have a true understanding of what sounds good or bad. Myself included.


----------



## Denkii

Zedcars said:


> Thanks. Karl should replace one of the *7* wonders as a wonder in his own right...such a brilliant mind.
> 
> Yeah, I’m aware I’m ahead a bit. But, I can do a zero, plus there might be something else coming from me on launch day...


Does it contain sleighs?
And bells?


----------



## Zedcars

Denkii said:


> Does it contain sleighs?
> And bells?


Um, it wasn’t going to, but now that you mention it... 🤔


----------



## synkrotron

erica-grace said:


> But the vast majority of the rest of the forum membership doesn't have that experience



guilty as charged


----------



## jamwerks

2 layers for things like "cuivré" " (F & FF) and flautando (PP & MP) would make sense. Contrebasson and Contrebasse Clarinet might need just 2 layers on sustains. Strings I imagine they've done 3. They could have done more layers and less arts or less instruments. I'd bet they've done their homework here on what's needed and what feasible for the price-point they want to hit.


----------



## synkrotron

Denkii said:


> Does it contain sleighs?
> And bells?



I was disappointed to find that there isn't a bell tree.

I mean, there's a cow bell! Why not a bell tree


----------



## JohnG

erica-grace said:


> "They" means Spitfire. In your post - the one I was responding to - you said, "The comment about three dynamic layers sounded like a minimum, not a maximum." Was that not in reference to something Spitfire said? It sounded like it, especilally withnothing in that post preceding it. If not, I apologize.



I can see that -- apologies to have given that impression. In fact, I was quoting someone else's hearsay!

So sorry, Erica.


----------



## CT

synkrotron said:


> Not a problem
> 
> I ended up listening to the complete album. I have to listen to more stuff like this to get an idea of what Peeps are doing with their libraries... I have so much to learn



The whole thing? I'm genuinely touched that you found something worthwhile there, man. I've enjoyed what I've heard from you as well, so there's some shared taste, I think. Not sure anyone should be learning anything from me, though....


----------



## synkrotron

Hi, Mike 



miket said:


> Not sure anyone should be learning anything from me, though



I am on a voyage of discovery at the moment. Much of my musical life has been spent pursuing my love of electronic music, Tangerine Dream in particular and trying to emulating that style. Now that I have invested in a library of a couple of string instruments I feel the need to hear what other people are making with them.

Whether or not I will ever reach that stage remains to be seen, but I would still at least like to use my little string library in my electronic/ambient/soundscape stuff at some point in the near future.

You stuff? Well, I actually find it quite relaxing and I enjoyed listening to all of Travelogue. Currently sampling a couple of tracks off Northern Skies...



Anyway! Back to B B C S O !


----------



## gtrwll

1TB SSD installed - check!
Doubled the amount of RAM - check!

Now I'm all set for my upcoming template with all the sleigh bell articulations loaded - AND with all the mics on!


...I wonder if my CPU can take it though...


----------



## Noeticus

Getting closer to 4000 posts. Ahhhhhhh!


----------



## cqd

Noeticus said:


> Getting closer to 4000 posts. Ahhhhhhh!


Settle down..


----------



## PerryD

Hello support...I can't wrap my head around the whole spill mic thing...and I'm going through a LOT of tea...


----------



## jaketanner

fahl5 said:


> either your way to crossfade them is bad


cossfading is the norm for every library. Its basically like having a volume control for every dynamic later recorded.


----------



## Portland

PerryD said:


> Hello support...I can't wrap my head around the whole spill mic thing...and I'm going through a LOT of tea...



Way to ruin a state-of-the-art workstation! Jeez!


----------



## synthetic

erica-grace said:


> Most people here can't hear what sounds good or bad. A few people on here have a good deal of experience with libraries vs. real orchestras, and real orchestras vs. libraries. THOSE people know what sounds good and bad. But the vast majority of the rest of the forum membership doesn't have that experience, and simply does not have a true understanding of what sounds good or bad. Myself included.



That's the real BS*. You can hear what sounds good and bad. That ability gets better with practice, but it doesn't mean you should trust other people's opinions above your own. And I don't hear anyone saying this "sounds bad." I hear them saying it has X dynamic layers and this other library has Y dynamic layers. But how does it SOUND? A guitar that does only one sound really well is a great guitar. This has thousands of great sounds inside. Incredibly musical tone. I plan to make a lot of cool-sounding music with this. 


* BS is the Brass Spill mic.


----------



## ed buller

don't you think...that if they had gone to ALL the trouble of recording and editing all those mics...they'd have a good handle on the dynamics. I haven't yet bought one of their libraries and felt cheated I have to say !

best

ed


----------



## smoothielova

Are we THERE yet? ;P


----------



## Zedcars

smoothielova said:


> Are we THERE yet? ;P


Nearly 






Free Online Countdown Timer for Christmas, vacation and other events







www.arewethere.yt


----------



## Saxer

Just realized that I'm on the road for half a week exactly from the day BBCSO is available. Damn...


----------



## synkrotron

1356 to go!


----------



## al_net77

Maybe I've missed it before, but it is online the full walkthroughs video...


----------



## synkrotron

al_net77 said:


> full walkthroughs video



There are a number available on the Spitfire Audio YouTube channel:-









Spitfire Audio


Spitfire Audio makes inspiring sounds and scoring tools in collaboration with the world's greatest composers, musicians, engineers and studios. From full orc...




www.youtube.com





and there is a playlist:-


----------



## constaneum

i've followed this thread till i wanna puke...


----------



## CT

constaneum said:


> i've followed this thread till i wanna puke...



Isn't that the "How do you get your drink on?" thread?


----------



## synkrotron

miket said:


> Isn't that the "How do you get your drink on?" thread?



I was thinking about the "other" thread in the Member's Compositions sub-forum...


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

Has anyone who has pre-ordered along with the SSD received a confirmation yet that their order has shipped?


----------



## mikeh-375

Alex Fraser said:


> I'm going to sign out of this thread now until release day when I will tune back in, as you lot are attempting to make me buy a library I don't require.
> 
> I'll leave you with this though. Post release, *I promise to Amazon Prime a tin of Quality Street to the first (UK based) member who posts an audio example of the sleigh bells, ALL MICS.*
> 
> You can hold me to this. Laters!
> A




well, that's me out....


----------



## madfloyd

Did I miss the percussion walkthrough?


----------



## Adam Takacs

madfloyd said:


> Did I miss the percussion walkthrough?


the woodwinds and percussion walkthrough is not online yet.


----------



## redlester

Larry Hanshaw said:


> Has anyone who has pre-ordered along with the SSD received a confirmation yet that their order has shipped?



I've ordered it on the standard hard drive, but haven't had any notification yet.


----------



## al_net77

tadam said:


> the woodwinds and percussion walkthrough is not online yet.



There are, in the full walkthrough


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

redlester said:


> I've ordered it on the standard hard drive, but haven't had any notification yet.


Does your order still show as "pending" when you check the status on their site?


----------



## Adam Takacs

al_net77 said:


> There are, in the full walkthrough


I only see the following walkthrough videos:

Overview
Strings
Brass
Mic signals

If the full winds and perc walkthroughs also available, please, let me know, thank you!

Winds, percussion and legato walkthroughs are missing, as I see.


----------



## redlester

tadam said:


> I only see the following walkthrough videos:
> 
> Overview
> Strings
> Brass
> Mic signals
> 
> If the full winds and perc walkthroughs also available, please, let me know, thank you!
> 
> Winds, percussion and legato walkthroughs are missing, as I see.



I think the previous poster meant that the Woodwinds and Percussion are demo'd in the full walkthrough. Specific videos dealing with them alone have not been released yet.

Am surprised there is no direct link on the Spitfire site to the Strings, Brass and Mic videos or to Christian's video, only indirectly through the main walkthrough video and a YouTube playlist, which could be easily missed - it's not obvious to a casual observer.


----------



## redlester

Larry Hanshaw said:


> Does your order still show as "pending" when you check the status on their site?



It does indeed, on my Order History.


----------



## al_net77

redlester said:


> I think the previous poster meant that the Woodwinds and Percussion are demo'd in the full walkthrough. Specific videos dealing with them alone have not been released yet.



This.


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> It does indeed, on my Order History.


If I camped outside their offices, do you think I could get it sooner? Or maybe I’d just get arrested for loitering with intent.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> If I camped outside their offices, do you think I could get it sooner? Or maybe I’d just get arrested for loitering with intent.



On a serious note, I hope they are dusting down their franking machine. If these drives arrive late they are going to have a lot of people the opposite of gruntled. They will be finding out how many dynamic layers there are to irked customers complaints!


----------



## synkrotron

Zedcars said:


> If I camped outside their offices, do you think I could get it sooner? Or maybe I’d just get arrested for loitering with intent.



The latter, I would imagine


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> If I camped outside their offices, do you think I could get it sooner? Or maybe I’d just get arrested for loitering with intent.



Until recently you could have put an Extinction Rebellion logo on the tent to fox everyone, but the police have been arresting them all so I wouldn't recommend that now.


----------



## Begfred

Question about library updates. 

The problem with library updates in Kontakt when using fixed template is that you have to reload updated patch and resave template each time there's an update.

So what about BBCSO player? I guest it will be different.


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> Until recently you could have put an Extinction Rebellion logo on the tent to fox everyone, but the police have been arresting them all so I wouldn't recommend that now.


Thanks for the useful tip. I wonder what the carbon footprint of a typical media composer is. Prolly on the high side due to all that gear burning 24/7. Let’s not tell the protesters or we’ll find them all chained to our front doors before long!


----------



## Portland

Truth is, they do have an awful lot going on besides BBCSO. I selfishly want them to post _nothing_ but updates & walkthrough videos for this library, but I know they've got plenty on their plates. Sure am looking forward to those woodwinds, though. 😁


----------



## Zedcars

T-Minus...


"O mio babbino caro" ("Oh My Beloved Father") is in *6*/8 time (after a few bars in 3/4). It's a soprano aria from the opera Gianni Schicchi (1918) by Giacomo Puccini to a libretto by Giovacchino Forzano:





"*6* Underground" (199*6*) by Sneaker Pimps. The horns and the harp melody at the beginning of the song are both sampled from "Golden Girl", a track from the 19*6*4 James Bond film Goldfinger (the song plays during a scene when Bond discovers Jill Masterson covered in gold paint):





“You’ve Got To Hide Will Love Away” by The Beatles is in *6*/8 time:





Bonus track:
"The Prisoner" (19*6*7) theme by Ron Grainer and opening titles. Starring the unforgettable Patrick McGoohan as Number *6* ("I am _*not*_ a number - I am a free man!"  ):






*6* is the atomic number of carbon.
*6* is a unitary perfect number, a primary pseudoperfect number, a harmonic divisor number and a superior highly composite number, the last to also be a primorial.
*6* kingdoms in the taxonomic rank below domain (biology); Animalia, Plantae, Fungi, Protista, Archaea/Archaeabacteria, and Bacteria/Eubacteria.
In three-dimensional Euclidean space, there are *six* unknown support reactions for a statically determinate structure: one force in each of the three dimensions, and one moment through each of three possible orthogonal planes.
There are said to be no more than *six* degrees of separation between any two people on Earth.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Begfred said:


> Question about library updates.
> 
> The problem with library updates in Kontakt when using fixed template is that you have to reload updated patch and resave template each time there's an update.
> 
> So what about BBCSO player? I guest it will be different.


People who own Eric W. Choir or Hans Zimmer Strings should know


----------



## MaxOctane

smoothielova said:


> Are we THERE yet? ;P



Almost. Only 16 more pages (_320 comments_) until we reach *200*.


----------



## PerryD

I ordered the SSD at the end of September. I'm still not sure what cable to get. I have a Thunderbolt 3 port, Thunderbolt 2 and a usb 3.1 port available on my PC. Can anyone suggest which would be best? I assume the TB3 has the highest throughput. I also don't know what carrier the SSD will be delivered by here in the US. I've had DHL for other European deliveries.


----------



## vdk-john

I was really hoping that the new walkthrough (woodwinds) would have been out by now, not just for this walkthrough itself (which I'm anyway very much looking forward to) but also because I'd hope they release also the percussions and legato walkthroughs before release day.


----------



## synkrotron

Perhaps we will have to await the "independent" walkthroughs that will undoubtedly be made shortly after its release...


----------



## redlester

PerryD said:


> I ordered the SSD at the end of September. I'm still not sure what cable to get. I have a Thunderbolt 3 port, Thunderbolt 2 and a usb 3.1 port available on my PC. Can anyone suggest which would be best? I assume the TB3 has the highest throughput. I also don't know what carrier the SSD will be delivered by here in the US. I've had DHL for other European deliveries.



It comes with a USB 3.1 cable, I would think you’ll be fine with that.


----------



## colony nofi

PerryD said:


> I ordered the SSD at the end of September. I'm still not sure what cable to get. I have a Thunderbolt 3 port, Thunderbolt 2 and a usb 3.1 port available on my PC. Can anyone suggest which would be best? I assume the TB3 has the highest throughput. I also don't know what carrier the SSD will be delivered by here in the US. I've had DHL for other European deliveries.



There is no such thing as a thunderbolt 3 connector. Thunderbolt 3 is a transport protocol that happens to use a usb-c connector. 

This topic is always complex (thanks tech companies!) but here goes.

A SATA gen 3 (the transport mechanism) based SSD like that used for the spitfire library tops out at around 550MB/s read speed. (theoretical max I believe is 600 just thinking about it... but I've never seen that!)

A SATA based SSD has a maximum IOPS (input outputs per second) of approx 70K for 4k random read tests. 

Compare this to an NVME drive. NVME is a newer protocol than SATA. An SSD utilizing the NVME protocol can achieve approx 3000MB/s read speeds and IOPS in the realm of 700k. 

Now we need to think about how we get that data from the drive to the computer.

USB 3.0 has a theoretical max speed of 640MB/s. 
Our SATA 3 drive has a max of around 600MB/s. So it would seem a perfect fit right? Well, kinda. There are many overheads when it comes to transferring data (and timing issues and the like) which means the max speed you will see from a SATA 3 drive going down a USB3 connection is around 350MB/s. 
Think of the SATA3 drive as a firetruck, and the USB connection as a hose. The firetruck can pump 600litres of water a second, and the hose can carry 640 litres of water a second. But the hose is often bent, or has connectors which are smaller... Its not a great analogy as data is bi-directional, but you get the idea. SATA is just one part of the puzzle. What gets the data into the computer is important.

USB 3.1 (also known confusingly as USB 3.1 Gen 2) doubles the theoretical maximum speed of the data bus to 10Gb/s or 1250MB/s. Using a USB 3.1 cable / connection, I have seen a SATA 3 drive work at very close to its maximum rate. Indeed, I ran 2 SATA drives in a RAID 0 connection over USB 3.1 and got 650MB/s on a test.

What this means is that USB3.1 is perfectly fine for the Spitfire drive. You will get at least 350MB/s transfer rate, and depending on the implementation of the external case, up to 500MB/s. In the real world, this won't make a huge difference to loading times. 

The drive provided by spitfire uses a USB-C connector, but the USB 3.1 protocol. USB-C is NOT a protocol. It is only the name of the connector. (Just like USB-B and USB-A in the past)

Confusingly, thunderbolt 3 also uses a USB-C connector, but just because a drive has that connector does not mean that it can use thunderbolt (ie, a faster connection.)

Now since spitfire are using a SATA drive, putting it on a thunderbolt connection will only see a very small increase in throughput compared to using USB 3.1 gen 2. If any at all. And since there are additional costs associated with creating a thunderbolt connection, its just not worth it using a SATA drive.

Now if the drive were an NMVE drive, then choosing to use thunderbolt instead of USB 3.1 gen 2 might be a good idea. As would the case be if you were using multiple drives in a RAID 0 configuration. 

SO.

For this drive, there is NO point using a thunderbolt 3 cable. It will work, but only because a thunderbolt 3 cable also can be used as a USB-3.1 gen 2 cable. You will plug it in, and the drive will connect to your computer using USB 3.1 gen 2, not Thunderbolt (even if connected to a thunderbolt 3 port on the computer!)

Just use a USB 3.1 gen 2 cable. These come in USB-C and USB-A types, depending on what your motherboard has. So just look at the type of connection on your computer, and get a USB-C to whatever usb 3.1 connector your computer has cable. It'll be cheaper than a thunderbolt cable.

So this cable will either be a USB-C to USB-C cable for USB 3.1 gen 2, OR a USB-C to USB-A cable for USB 3.1 gen 2.

Hope this helps.


----------



## colony nofi

by the way. It seems it comes with a usb-c to usb-a cable, so if you have a usb-c to usb-c lying around, all bases are covered.

Note : I just had another quick look and I cannot see any tech info if this drive enclosure is using USB 3.0 or USB 3.1 Gen 2. There is nothing on their website for that.
All that will change is the theoretical maximum speed through the connection - but you probably won't notice the difference anyway. 
@SpitfireSupport can you confirm the specs of the enclosure you are using?


----------



## artomatic

Got my 2TB SSD all ready for the long download. Anybody know what Spitfire's (server) maximum download speed is?


----------



## CT

This USB/Thunderbolt stuff just goes cleanly over my head for some reason. It all seems needlessly convoluted. 

When I get this, I'll just put it right on my own internal drive rather than risking getting hamstrung by the older connection options on my current computer.


----------



## synthetic

artomatic said:


> Got my 2TB SSD all ready for the long download. Anybody know what Spitfire's (server) maximum download speed is?



I think they said that they're using AWS. If it's good enough for Netflix, it should be able to handle our download for a few days.


----------



## gtrwll

If it works on full speed (real world, not theoretical), my download with a 100Mbps net should take roughly 18 hours. Wasn't it 650GB download size? Or 600? Can't remember correctly, it's early morning here.


----------



## zolhof

artomatic said:


> Got my 2TB SSD all ready for the long download. Anybody know what Spitfire's (server) maximum download speed is?









They use Amazon Cloudfront which can easily max out my connection (240mpbs) even when there are tons of people downloading simultaneously. Does your ISP have any sort of data cap or bandwidth throttling? If not, you should be fine.


----------



## artomatic

Fiber optic here with 100 mbps, no throttling so I'm good.
Thanks for the info, guys! 
Will be doing a Christmas project so this library is a welcome addition - even without the much-sought-after jingle bells! 🎄


----------



## PerryD

colony nofi said:


> There is no such thing as a thunderbolt 3 connector. Thunderbolt 3 is a transport protocol that happens to use a usb-c connector.
> 
> This topic is always complex (thanks tech companies!) but here goes.
> 
> A SATA gen 3 (the transport mechanism) based SSD like that used for the spitfire library tops out at around 550MB/s read speed. (theoretical max I believe is 600 just thinking about it... but I've never seen that!)
> 
> A SATA based SSD has a maximum IOPS (input outputs per second) of approx 70K for 4k random read tests.
> 
> Compare this to an NVME drive. NVME is a newer protocol than SATA. An SSD utilizing the NVME protocol can achieve approx 3000MB/s read speeds and IOPS in the realm of 700k.
> 
> Now we need to think about how we get that data from the drive to the computer.
> 
> USB 3.0 has a theoretical max speed of 640MB/s.
> Our SATA 3 drive has a max of around 600MB/s. So it would seem a perfect fit right? Well, kinda. There are many overheads when it comes to transferring data (and timing issues and the like) which means the max speed you will see from a SATA 3 drive going down a USB3 connection is around 350MB/s.
> Think of the SATA3 drive as a firetruck, and the USB connection as a hose. The firetruck can pump 600litres of water a second, and the hose can carry 640 litres of water a second. But the hose is often bent, or has connectors which are smaller... Its not a great analogy as data is bi-directional, but you get the idea. SATA is just one part of the puzzle. What gets the data into the computer is important.
> 
> USB 3.1 (also known confusingly as USB 3.1 Gen 2) doubles the theoretical maximum speed of the data bus to 10Gb/s or 1250MB/s. Using a USB 3.1 cable / connection, I have seen a SATA 3 drive work at very close to its maximum rate. Indeed, I ran 2 SATA drives in a RAID 0 connection over USB 3.1 and got 650MB/s on a test.
> 
> What this means is that USB3.1 is perfectly fine for the Spitfire drive. You will get at least 350MB/s transfer rate, and depending on the implementation of the external case, up to 500MB/s. In the real world, this won't make a huge difference to loading times.
> 
> The drive provided by spitfire uses a USB-C connector, but the USB 3.1 protocol. USB-C is NOT a protocol. It is only the name of the connector. (Just like USB-B and USB-A in the past)
> 
> Confusingly, thunderbolt 3 also uses a USB-C connector, but just because a drive has that connector does not mean that it can use thunderbolt (ie, a faster connection.)
> 
> Now since spitfire are using a SATA drive, putting it on a thunderbolt connection will only see a very small increase in throughput compared to using USB 3.1 gen 2. If any at all. And since there are additional costs associated with creating a thunderbolt connection, its just not worth it using a SATA drive.
> 
> Now if the drive were an NMVE drive, then choosing to use thunderbolt instead of USB 3.1 gen 2 might be a good idea. As would the case be if you were using multiple drives in a RAID 0 configuration.
> 
> SO.
> 
> For this drive, there is NO point using a thunderbolt 3 cable. It will work, but only because a thunderbolt 3 cable also can be used as a USB-3.1 gen 2 cable. You will plug it in, and the drive will connect to your computer using USB 3.1 gen 2, not Thunderbolt (even if connected to a thunderbolt 3 port on the computer!)
> 
> Just use a USB 3.1 gen 2 cable. These come in USB-C and USB-A types, depending on what your motherboard has. So just look at the type of connection on your computer, and get a USB-C to whatever usb 3.1 connector your computer has cable. It'll be cheaper than a thunderbolt cable.
> 
> So this cable will either be a USB-C to USB-C cable for USB 3.1 gen 2, OR a USB-C to USB-A cable for USB 3.1 gen 2.
> 
> Hope this helps.


 Thank you for the very detailed help! I may eventually take the SSD out of its case and put it in my 3.1 dual dock and transfer to a larger EVO Pro drive.


----------



## PerryD

A friend took me to the Atlanta Symphony last night. I haven't been to a pro symphonic concert in almost 20 years. Great inspiration for using BBC SO.


----------



## constaneum

gtrwll said:


> If it works on full speed (real world, not theoretical), my download with a 100Mbps net should take roughly 18 hours. Wasn't it 650GB download size? Or 600? Can't remember correctly, it's early morning here.



i wonder whether straight away a usable file or a zip file. If zipped, you'll need to ensure 1.3TB of storage space for extraction. However, i recalled SA mentioned the files can be downloaded by sections. hmm..


----------



## dzilizzi

constaneum said:


> i wonder whether straight away a usable file or a zip file. If zipped, you'll need to ensure 1.3TB of storage space for extraction. However, i recalled SA mentioned the files can be downloaded by sections. hmm..


If it is similar to their other products, they unzip and delete as they go. This way, it doesn’t need much more than 2GBs free in addition at any one time. I don’t even think I’ve seen it in the trash.


----------



## TGV

synthetic said:


> If it's good enough for Netflix


Netflix only needs to deliver a sustained 5Mbps, and that's for HD. This lib is 600GB. That would mean 11 days of download time.


----------



## constaneum

dzilizzi said:


> If it is similar to their other products, they unzip and delete as they go. This way, it doesn’t need much more than 2GBs free in addition at any one time. I don’t even think I’ve seen it in the trash.



but the moment they unzip, you'll still need that double storage right ?


----------



## Loïc D

constaneum said:


> but the moment they unzip, you'll still need that double storage right ?


If I remember well, the lib is installed by chunks. No unzipping / double storage needed anymore.


----------



## Kenjoe

can you already download BBCSO?


----------



## Zedcars

Kenjoe said:


> can you already download BBCSO?


Not that I’m aware of. I don’t think the d/l link and activation codes will go live until around 3pm BST on 24th. Could be earlier if we’re lucky.


----------



## redlester

artomatic said:


> Fiber optic here with 100 mbps, no throttling so I'm good.



Very jealous of this. We have "fibre to the cabinet", not into the house, so my maximum download speed averages just over 30Mbps. Hence why I've ordered on a hard drive. I'll be transferring to and using it on a 7,200 rpm USB 3 external drive for the time being, until I save up for a major SSD overhaul.


----------



## AllanH

I've figured it'll take about 1 day to download for me. I rarely get below 100 mb/s but sometimes very long downloads slow down a bit. Not too much of a hassle.


----------



## synthetic

TGV said:


> Netflix only needs to deliver a sustained 5Mbps, and that's for HD. This lib is 600GB. That would mean 11 days of download time.



Times a million users. Netflix accounts for 15% of all internet traffic.


----------



## Michael Stibor

vdk-john said:


> I was really hoping that the new walkthrough (woodwinds) would have been out by now, not just for this walkthrough itself (which I'm anyway very much looking forward to) but also because I'd hope they release also the percussions and legato walkthroughs before release day.


Agreed. I missed out on getting it for the first day because I can't commit until I hear a dedicated winds walkthrough.


----------



## dzilizzi

constaneum said:


> but the moment they unzip, you'll still need that double storage right ?


Yes, but only for the 2gbs or so that is being downloaded at a time. It downloads in small pieces. So the most you should need is the size of the library plus a few more GBs.


----------



## pawelmorytko

I've already decided to wait for all walkthroughs, demos, reviews, external demos and mock-ups, and maybe get it next year instead. I'll let all the pros try it out first and see how they get on. It's too much of a decision trying to simply choose between BBCSO, SSO, and OT Berlin Series


----------



## cqd

I can feel the woodwind walkthrough..


----------



## X-Bassist

cqd said:


> I can feel the woodwind walkthrough..


Luke.... use the force Luke....


----------



## redlester

Still no dispatch confirmations anyone?


----------



## Zero&One

redlester said:


> Still no dispatch confirmations anyone?



Nope. I did think they would have been shipped by now.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Me: Waiting for the Woodwind and Percussion walkthrough before buying

Also me: Bought!


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> Still no dispatch confirmations anyone?


I got one...for my pepperoni pizza 🍕


----------



## cqd

Dammit..I was close..


----------



## Portland

Percussion Walkthrough


----------



## Portland

Harp sounds great.


----------



## cqd

The Celeste (my favourite instrument) is nice too..


----------



## cqd

The different untuned percussion are in the articulation slots?


----------



## Begfred

God with the percussions you can hear how good is the room and the recording in general.
Great stuff Spitfire!


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Beautiful sleighbells, at last.


----------



## Hadrondrift

The sleigh bells gave me one of the most beautiful acoustic experiences of my life.  
Percussion is nice, very versatile!


----------



## CT

Pretty sure I'll be getting this during Black Friday. Can't wait. Apparently we'll get to play around with it a little at Christian's NYC gathering first.


----------



## Portland

All the different mic options really make this a versatile library. I can see that "close-wide" mix being used in all kinds of music.


----------



## CT

The close-wides seem to give the strings a little bit of that particular 8Dio string sound that's so nice and hard to find elsewhere. The very wide image, and individual player detail, I guess.


----------



## Denkii

19:42 ma dudes.


----------



## jbuhler

Denkii said:


> 19:42 ma dudes.


Paul totally undersold the sleighbells.


----------



## CT

He's just holding back until they spring the Sleighbells Total Performance Patch on us.


----------



## Michael Stibor

Regarding that percussion walkthrough. 

First of all, that harp sounds great, and I'm very picky about my harp sounds.

Secondly, I was just thinking as I was walking to work today, that on the template I'm creating that I really want to create on track for normal to loud timpani rolls, and one for soft rolls. It's like Spitfire read my mind and said "Hold my beer..."


----------



## Bluemount Score

But why is the mix called _Jake Jackson_?
I guess a guy (or girl) with that name created it?


----------



## artomatic

Cowbells.
Yeah!!


----------



## jonvog

Bluemount Score said:


> But why is the mix called _Jake Jackson_?
> I guess a guy (or girl) with that name created it?





this guy.


----------



## Denkii

Bluemount Score said:


> But why is the mix called _Jake Jackson_?
> I guess a guy (or girl) with that name created it?


Sherlock approved.





__





LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You


For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than to Google it for themselves.




lmgtfy.com





Oh boy it's been years since I've used that. It still feels nice.

Edit: Holy cow this was meant to be a joke-stab but the snippet text makes it sound way worse than I meant it.


----------



## gtrwll

Portland said:


> All the different mic options really make this a versatile library. I can see that "close-wide" mix being used in all kinds of music.



Had the exact same thought.

What can I say, this just sounds lovely.


----------



## dzilizzi

Denkii said:


> Sherlock approved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You
> 
> 
> For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than to Google it for themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lmgtfy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh boy it's been years since I've used that. It still feels nice.
> 
> Edit: Holy cow this was meant to be a joke-stab but the snippet text makes it sound way worse than I meant it.


We need a sarcastic smiley.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Denkii said:


> Sherlock approved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You
> 
> 
> For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than to Google it for themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lmgtfy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh boy it's been years since I've used that. It still feels nice.
> 
> Edit: Holy cow this was meant to be a joke-stab but the snippet text makes it sound way worse than I meant it.


It's okay.
I first thought the tree mic was invented by a guy called "tree".


----------



## star.keys

Still don’t understand why would someone like me who owns nearly every other Spitfire library should by BBCSO. E.g. Why wouldn’t SCS and SSS provide better possibilities for strings writing than strings in BBCSO. Why wouldn’t a combination of Spitfire Percussion and HZ Percussion a better than percussion in BBCSO. If the later is better, why would anyone buy these prior libraries. This is very confusion pricing strategy.

I feel immensely proud of resisting the temptation of buying BBCSO (yet, things could change!)


----------



## widekeys

star.keys said:


> Still don’t understand why would someone like me who owns nearly every other Spitfire library should by BBCSO. E.g. Why wouldn’t SCS and SSS provide better possibilities for strings writing than strings in BBCSO. Why wouldn’t a combination of Spitfire Percussion and HZ Percussion a better than percussion in BBCSO. If the later is better, why would anyone buy these prior libraries. This is very confusion pricing strategy.
> 
> I feel immensely proud of resisting the temptation of buying BBCSO (yet, things could change!)


Why would anyone need more than one library? I guess it is just antother sound. SSS and SCS will probably stay relevant since they seem deeper sampled.


----------



## pawelmorytko

I've got to say, my least favourite mics are the Ow Triggers


----------



## synthetic

Bluemount Score said:


> I first thought the tree mic was invented by a guy called "tree".



Good old Deckard Tree, what a legend. Everyone called him Decca.


----------



## Bluemount Score

star.keys said:


> Still don’t understand why would someone like me who owns nearly every other Spitfire library should by BBCSO. E.g. Why wouldn’t SCS and SSS provide better possibilities for strings writing than strings in BBCSO. Why wouldn’t a combination of Spitfire Percussion and HZ Percussion a better than percussion in BBCSO. If the later is better, why would anyone buy these prior libraries. This is very confusion pricing strategy.
> 
> I feel immensely proud of resisting the temptation of buying BBCSO (yet, things could change!)


How many people own almost every single library by Spitfire and how many are just starting out, looking for "the best" all in one library, a "universal starting point"?
True, you might totally not be the target group to begin with. Maybe you love the room sound. Maybe you like the new Spitfire player. Or, as you own almost everything, why not take a little step further and own everything


----------



## Bluemount Score

synthetic said:


> Good old Deckard Tree, what a legend. Everyone called him Decca.


Great guy. Wish I knew a little more about him and his amazing career


----------



## synthetic

Was just thinking about my first string library. The Ensoniq Mirage held three sound sets to a 3.5” floppy, PLUS the boot ROM. So it couldn’t have been more than 400kB. BBC is 1.625 million times bigger than that.


----------



## Portland

star.keys said:


> Still don’t understand why would someone like me who owns nearly every other Spitfire library should by BBCSO. E.g. Why wouldn’t SCS and SSS provide better possibilities for strings writing than strings in BBCSO. Why wouldn’t a combination of Spitfire Percussion and HZ Percussion a better than percussion in BBCSO. If the later is better, why would anyone buy these prior libraries. This is very confusion pricing strategy.
> 
> I feel immensely proud of resisting the temptation of buying BBCSO (yet, things could change!)



I mean, maybe there's not really a "strategy," they just record libraries as opportunities arise. (And recording BBCSO isn't an opportunity I think anyone would want to pass up.) The more colors you have at your disposal, the more accurately you can recreate the music you're hearing in your head.

Some things I like about BBCSO...the natural, semi-dry sound, the plethora of mic options, the price for a complete orchestra...and also the fact that these are musicians who play together regularly, which, in my opinion, can affect the nuance of their playing and make it all fit together just a little neater. Not a night & day difference, but subtle.

But yeah, as others have said, it seems like BBCSO is directed, at least in large part, at people like myself who have never owned a full orchestral library before. This is a massive step up for me. I can basically divide my life into two distinct eras: _Before_ being able to make decent orchestral mock-ups, and _after._ 

BTW, I'm definitely jealous of your collection. SCS is next on my list, as is the Herrmann toolkit.


----------



## cqd

synthetic said:


> Good old Deckard Tree, what a legend. Everyone called him Decca.



His brother Mark was cool too..


----------



## Bluemount Score

cqd said:


> The Celeste (my favourite instrument) is nice too..


I liked it too, as everything else, however I'm a little sad that it is pretty "hard" sounding, even in lower dynamics. I was hoping for a soft celeste like the one in the Kontakt Factory Library, but with multiple mics, round robins and so on. This one is, once again, is a little more on the bright, glockenspiel like side of sound.


----------



## synkrotron

B
B
C

nuff said...


----------



## ridgero

star.keys said:


> Still don’t understand why would someone like me who owns nearly every other Spitfire library should by BBCSO. E.g. Why wouldn’t SCS and SSS provide better possibilities for strings writing than strings in BBCSO. Why wouldn’t a combination of Spitfire Percussion and HZ Percussion a better than percussion in BBCSO. If the later is better, why would anyone buy these prior libraries. This is very confusion pricing strategy.
> 
> I feel immensely proud of resisting the temptation of buying BBCSO (yet, things could change!)



I bought it because I hope for a well balanced all in one orchestra plugin, which was recorded in one room and mixed by the same team. I think all sections will have a natural connection to each other, which will it make much easier to mix.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

star.keys said:


> Still don’t understand why would someone like me who owns nearly every other Spitfire library should by BBCSO. E.g. Why wouldn’t SCS and SSS provide better possibilities for strings writing than strings in BBCSO. Why wouldn’t a combination of Spitfire Percussion and HZ Percussion a better than percussion in BBCSO. If the later is better, why would anyone buy these prior libraries. This is very confusion pricing strategy.
> 
> I feel immensely proud of resisting the temptation of buying BBCSO (yet, things could change!)



No one is asking you to buy it. This is the first time Spitfire has ever had me intrigued, I was never a fan of their orchestral libraries. I'm looking for an all-in-one orchestra library as an addition to EW Hollywood Orchestra, and feel this one is the cat's meow (I already pre-ordered it!). It's really all personal preference. Even if you own the other SF libraries, I'm pretty sure BBC will be a different beast altogether.


----------



## Michael Stibor

ridgero said:


> I bought it because I hope for a well balanced all in one orchestra plugin, which was recorded in one room and mixed by the same team. I think all sections will have a natural connection to each other, which will it make much easier to mix.


Please let us know once you get it if it meets those expectations. I want to get it for the same reason.


----------



## robgb

Has the price dropped to $300 yet? Then maybe I can afford it.


----------



## Ruffian Price

Good lord, I've only now noticed the mouseover mic descriptions. That's gonna be useful.


----------



## dzilizzi

robgb said:


> Has the price dropped to $300 yet? Then maybe I can afford it.


Maybe some day it will get down to $500 (50% off), but it is unlikely to be anytime soon. And it will probably be on that one day you are away from your computer on a flash/we're celebrating our anniversary of some big event in Spitfire history sale.


----------



## Loïc D

synthetic said:


> Good old Deckard Tree, what a legend. Everyone called him Decca.


He used to put his tree mics so high that birds could rest on it.
Hence the quote « Mr Decca, do you like our owl? »
10 p(o)ints for getting that geek joke.

Ok, I’ll show myself elsewhere...


----------



## Portland

LowweeK said:


> He used to put his tree mics so high that birds could rest on it.
> Hence the quote « Mr Decca, do you like our owl? »
> 10 p(o)ints for getting that geek joke.
> 
> Ok, I’ll show myself elsewhere...



Is it real?


----------



## Uiroo

ridgero said:


> I bought it because I hope for a well balanced all in one orchestra plugin, which was recorded in one room and mixed by the same team. I think all sections will have a natural connection to each other, which will it make much easier to mix.


But doesn't that already exist with SSS, SCS, SSW and SSB? Spitfire Percussion has also been recorded at AIR.


----------



## Portland

LowweeK said:


> He used to put his tree mics so high that birds could rest on it.
> Hence the quote « Mr Decca, do you like our owl? »
> 10 p(o)ints for getting that geek joke.
> 
> Ok, I’ll show myself elsewhere...



Whoops, I misquoted. The line was, "It's artificial?" 

Anywho...


----------



## synthetic

I think it's more likely that the library will have added value (ore sounds) than reach $500. I mean, someday maybe. But remember it's not just Spitfire setting the price, this is a co-op product. 

I'm a bit confused on how they did percussion. There are multiple percussion instruments, but all under keyswitches. So if I want to play cassa and piatti at the same time, I need two instances. They did the same thing with HZ percussion at first: only 6 keys active times 4 keyswitches times 10 instruments. But then they upgraded to "HZ Percussion Professional" and laid everything on the keyboard at once. Much more useful. 

So why couldn't they do that here?? It looks like it may be achieveable with the shift-click and transpose trick, but they could make that so much easier.


----------



## Zedcars

T-Minus...


"Mars, The Bringer of War" (1914) from The Planets suite (premiered 1918) by Gustav Holst. Performed here by the *BBC Symphony Orchestra*, conducted by Susanna Mälkki at the Proms, Royal Albert Hall, London (201*5*). It’s in *5*/4 and *5*/2 time, and in 3/4 during the final 14 bars:





"Take *Five*" is also in *5*/4 time. It was composed by Paul Desmond and originally recorded by the Dave Brubeck Quartet at Columbia Records' 30th Street Studio in New York City on July 1, 19*5*9 for their album Time Out:





"*Five* Man Army" movie "Main Title" soundtrack by Ennio Morricone (1969). Plot: Mexican rebels hire the "Dutchman" to rob a train carrying $*5*00,000 in gold on behalf of Victoriano Huerta to finance the Mexican Revolution. The Dutchman enlists four other men to assist him:






The most destructive known hurricanes rate as Category *5* on the Saffir–Simpson hurricane wind scale.
There are *five* Lagrangian points in a two-body astronomical system.
Sankara Stones, *five* magical rocks in the movie Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom that are sought by the Thuggees for evil purposes. 👿
In the works of J. R. R. Tolkien, *five* wizards (Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast, Alatar and Pallando) are sent to Middle-earth to aid against the threat of the Dark Lord Sauron.
There are *five* completed, numbered piano concertos of Ludwig van Beethoven, Sergei Prokofiev, and Camille Saint-Saëns.


----------



## PerryD

I was a little disappointed that the Timpani were not set up to play with two hands like many other timpani libraries. They did sound great though.


----------



## Zedcars

PerryD said:


> I was a little disappointed that the Timpani were not set up to play with two hands like many other timpani libraries. They did sound great though.


Yes, and there doesn’t seem to be any gliss. patches.


----------



## gtrwll

synthetic said:


> But then they upgraded to "HZ Percussion Professional" and laid everything on the keyboard at once. Much more useful.



Funny how different opinions can be - when I was watching the walkthrough I was glad that everything was its own patch and not an all-in-one multi 

I think most of my perc libraries are like that, and I never remember which key was what. But I think it would be easy to offer multis as an option for those who like them?


----------



## PerryD

Zedcars said:


> Yes, and there doesn’t seem to be any gliss. patches.


 I have several timpani libraries and I actually like the ones in the Symphony Series (full) the best. Very playable, have a controlled sound, adjustable damping and they are in tune!


----------



## idematoa

*Taiga — Paul Thomson (Solo Cello Total Performance & other libraries)*

This demo also features:
Orchestral Swarm
*BBC Symphony Orchestra*
Eric Whitacre Choir
Albion ONE


----------



## Michael Antrum

star.keys said:


> Still don’t understand why would someone like me who owns nearly every other Spitfire library should by BBCSO. E.g. Why wouldn’t SCS and SSS provide better possibilities for strings writing than strings in BBCSO. Why wouldn’t a combination of Spitfire Percussion and HZ Percussion a better than percussion in BBCSO. If the later is better, why would anyone buy these prior libraries. This is very confusion pricing strategy.
> 
> I feel immensely proud of resisting the temptation of buying BBCSO (yet, things could change!)



I'm with you there. I've got the complete spitfire Symphony series with the expansions, and we are going to be getting an updated version next year. (Originally it was going to be this year, but I have a feeling it was put back by all the work on BBCSO).

My bet is that the Symphony series is going to be ported to the new spitfire player. I understood from the marketing at the time the expansions were discontinued that this would be a free of charge upgrade for anyone with both the main and expansions.

So I'm going to be waiting this one out. I also need to replace my laptop (with a Macbook Pro with 32 gb so not a trifling sum of money).

So I look in on this library with interest, but I've reached the point of saturation with libraries now, and anything I buy now is more for fun and giggles.

However, If I didn't have the Symphonic Orchestra already, I'd be close to buying it.


----------



## JoeHidden

Bluemount Score said:


> It's okay.
> I first thought the tree mic was invented by a guy called "tree".


Yeah, it was the famous Guybrush Threepwood 😂


----------



## TGV

synthetic said:


> It looks like it may be achieveable with the shift-click and transpose trick, but they could make that so much easier.


Do it once, save it as a patch, and you're set. Looks flexible to me.


----------



## ridgero

Uiroo said:


> But doesn't that already exist with SSS, SCS, SSW and SSB? Spitfire Percussion has also been recorded at AIR.



If I would own some of those mentioned libraries, I wouldn’t preorder BBCSO.

Not to forget the price: The SSS & Percussions costs 2100 Euro, on a big 40% sale still 1260 Euro.

I have CSS, CSSS, CSB (+SF WW) The Cinematic Studio Series is a versatile sounding series, but I m not happy with the mic options.

With the BBC I’ll have the chance to adapt it way more to my own taste without a 3rd party tool.


----------



## gtrwll

JoeHidden said:


> Yeah, it was the famous Guybrush Threepwood 😂



"How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if woodchuck could chuck wood?"


----------



## madfloyd

I was hoping for a real bass drum - i.e. with the bass I hear live. These seem weak - like they're timpani... much the same as the Jodi library. :(


----------



## paulthomson

I can assure you it was a real bass drum - our days of TR808 played through a guitar amp are over (mores the pity). 😂


----------



## mikeh-375

Lovely Chocolate (obviously not Cadburys) for the best rendition of Jingle bells or Leroy Andersons Sleigh Ride (or even Prokofiev's Troika)with BBCSO. Quality St for the worst....(does that cover everything?)


----------



## porrasm

synthetic said:


> I think it's more likely that the library will have added value (ore sounds) than reach $500. I mean, someday maybe. But remember it's not just Spitfire setting the price, this is a co-op product.
> 
> I'm a bit confused on how they did percussion. There are multiple percussion instruments, but all under keyswitches. So if I want to play cassa and piatti at the same time, I need two instances. They did the same thing with HZ percussion at first: only 6 keys active times 4 keyswitches times 10 instruments. But then they upgraded to "HZ Percussion Professional" and laid everything on the keyboard at once. Much more useful.
> 
> So why couldn't they do that here?? It looks like it may be achieveable with the shift-click and transpose trick, but they could make that so much easier.



Nope.

You can enable multiple articulations and just transpose the instrument to where you want it in the keyboard. You just need to build your own patch.


----------



## redlester

Still no dispatch email. Are we going to be informed or will it just arrive? The previous occasions I’ve ordered hard drives I have had a dispatch confirmation with order tracking.

Surely non-UK orders must have been dispatched by now.


----------



## Tilt & Flow

redlester said:


> Still no dispatch email. Are we going to be informed or will it just arrive? The previous occasions I’ve ordered hard drives I have had a dispatch confirmation with order tracking.
> 
> Surely non-UK orders must have been dispatched by now.


Not yet but I have faith they know what they’re doing with shipping/timing... I’m in California BTW.


----------



## bricop

The percussion sounds amazing. I would have loved a few toms, congas and bongos so now wondering how best to blend Albion One percussion? Or will there be a pro version with extended percussion and techniques (glissando timps etc)?


----------



## VinRice

mikeh-375 said:


> Lovely Chocolate (obviously not Cadburys)



Blasphemy!


----------



## paulthomson

VinRice said:


> Blasphemy!



hotel chocolat??


----------



## Noeticus

I say, I say... I must say... Godiva Chocolate.


----------



## Bluemount Score

bricop said:


> Or will there be a pro version with extended percussion and techniques (glissando timps etc)?


Nobody knows. There is not gonna be stuff like piano and choir in it either, so you'll have to blend other libraries no matter what from time to time. This library hopefully will be a great blend in itself, but not the end of blending overall. (Bl)end of the story.


----------



## Zedcars

Bluemount Score said:


> Nobody knows. There is not gonna be stuff like piano and choir in it either, so you'll have to blend other libraries no matter what from time to time. This library hopefully will be a great blend in itself, but not the end of blending overall. (Bl)end of the story.


I think there may be other libraries recorded in the same space with the same mic setups but branded as a new separate library, rather than specifically labelled as an extension of this one (even though you could view it like that). I would be surprised if they did not record more instruments in that space before it is demolished. A piano at least - since they are heavily into sampling pianos at the moment with the pianobook project.


----------



## VinRice

paulthomson said:


> hotel chocolat??



Yeah OK Paul. Nobody likes a Smartie™pants...


----------



## paulthomson

VinRice said:


> Yeah OK Paul. Nobody likes a Smartie™pants...



well it is the Topic™ that is on everyone’s lips.


----------



## ridgero

@christianhenson Will there be a chamber sized BBC library in the next 18 months?

Thanks for your answer


----------



## synthetic

After the massive press conference announcing the library in the first place, do you really think they're going to answer that in a 200-page VI thread?


----------



## Zedcars

These puns are getting a bit flakey.


----------



## Denkii




----------



## Karma

And I thought page 40 was a milestone...


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> These puns are getting a bit flakey.



Ripple of applause...


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> Ripple of applause...


You were Bounty say that.


----------



## VinRice

Nope, I got nothin'... (but I really tried, how sad is that?)


----------



## Loïc D

Zedcars said:


> You were Bounty say that.


Tiresome.
I think I will Lindt on my bed now.


----------



## Fleer

Noeticus said:


> I say, I say... I must say... Godiva Chocolate.


Neuhaus. The first. The last.


----------



## madfloyd

paulthomson said:


> I can assure you it was a real bass drum - our days of TR808 played through a guitar amp are over (mores the pity). 😂



I don't doubt that... but it seemed to lack the low end authority that I hear when I go to the Boston Symphony...


----------



## dzilizzi

I'm a big fan of Ghirardelli chocolate. But it's hard to find other than in the baking aisle anymore. Otherwise, Sees is so much better than Godiva. Though I don't think I have ever had fresh Godiva. It may be better if it hasn't sat in a store for a month after traveling overseas.


----------



## prodigalson

the one. the only...


----------



## dzilizzi

prodigalson said:


> the one. the only...


True, these are good. But never the only. Because every day it changes for me. And some days it isn't even chocolate. I just want a jellybean. Or gummy bear.


----------



## dzilizzi

Say, did the Woodwinds walkthrough ever come out? I was watching the brass one yesterday and Paul said something about the Woodwinds walkthrough like it was already out. So I'm figuring it was recorded. I just didn't see it. Was that the one that was reversed?


----------



## constaneum

dzilizzi said:


> Say, did the Woodwinds walkthrough ever come out? I was watching the brass one yesterday and Paul said something about the Woodwinds walkthrough like it was already out. So I'm figuring it was recorded. I just didn't see it. Was that the one that was reversed?



The detailed woodwind walkthrough isn't out yet. I was expecting the woodwinds walkthrough to be out first before the percussion. Surprise it's the other way round.


----------



## Zedcars

T-Minus...


*4*'33" (1952) by John Cage performed by The *BBC Symphony Orchestra* conducted by Lawrence Foster live at the Barbican, 2013. I’m extremely disappointed Spitfire not take the time to sample any multi-bar rests or tacet sections. There are also no fermatas, caesuras, or niente in the dynamic layers! WTF?!  Also utterly ridiculous to release a library without any coughing or rustling going on. I really hope they are planning some more recording sessions so we can finally create a mock-up of this masterpiece:





Symphony No. *4* 'Los Angeles' composed in 2008 by Arvo Pärt. It is the first of his symphonies to be written post-1976 and is in his signature tintinnabuli style. Tintinnabuli was influenced by the composer's mystical experiences with chant music. Musically, Pärt's tintinnabular music is characterized by two types of voice, the first of which (dubbed the "tintinnabular voice") arpeggiates the tonic triad, and the second of which moves diatonically in stepwise motion. The works often have a slow and meditative tempo, and a minimalist approach to both notation and performance. UK Première, BBC Proms 2010:





Vivaldi`s *Four* Seasons, Concerto No. *4* in F minor, "Winter" (L'inverno) Allegro non molto (in F minor), performed on electric guitars by Sinfonity:





Bonus track:
'*Four* Chords’ by Australian comedy group Axis of Awesome. It is a medley of popular songs, set to the I-V-vi-*IV* progression. Performing at the 2009 Melbourne International Comedy Festival:






*Four* Freedoms: *four* fundamental freedoms that Franklin D. Roosevelt declared ought to be enjoyed by everyone in the world: Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, Freedom from Want, Freedom from Fear.
There are *four* terrestrial (or rocky) planets in the Solar system: Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars.
There are *four* giant gas/ice planets in the Solar system: Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune.
Special relativity and general relativity treat nature as *four*-dimensional: 3D regular space and one-dimensional time are treated together and called spacetime. Also, any event E has a light cone composed of *four* zones of possible communication and cause and effect (outside the light cone is strictly incommunicado).


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

dzilizzi said:


> Say, did the Woodwinds walkthrough ever come out? I was watching the brass one yesterday and Paul said something about the Woodwinds walkthrough like it was already out. So I'm figuring it was recorded. I just didn't see it. Was that the one that was reversed?


Woodwinds are introduced at 19:00 of the BBC Symphony Orchestra Overview


----------



## ridgero

dzilizzi said:


> Say, did the Woodwinds walkthrough ever come out? I was watching the brass one yesterday and Paul said something about the Woodwinds walkthrough like it was already out. So I'm figuring it was recorded. I just didn't see it. Was that the one that was reversed?



No, it hasn't been published yet.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> There are *four* terrestrial (or rocky) planets in the Solar system: Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars.



Justice for Pluto!


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> You were Bounty say that.



Wispa it quietly.


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> Wispa it quietly.


I went on holiday to Egypt once and had a sudden craving for chocolate. Luckily I was riding a Caramel at the time.


----------



## Creoin

Calm down people, don't get your Snickers in a Twix, and let's get back to being the Minstrels we're supposed to be!


----------



## muk

constaneum said:


> I was expecting the woodwinds walkthrough to be out first before the percussion. Surprise it's the other way round.



It's consistent with the importance for modern film scoring, isn't it? Strings, then brass, then percussion. At last the woodwinds as the least important section. With this they are underselling the woodwinds in my opinion. From the few bits we heard so far to me the woodwinds were the best sounding.

Regarding chocolate. Cadbury? Quality Street? What's that?? You all should try the chocolate of Swiss boutique chocolatiers. From a brand, this one is seriously good:

https://www.laderach.com/shop/en/full-catalog.html


----------



## L-A Desire

muk said:


> It's consistent with the importance for modern film scoring, isn't it? Strings, then brass, then percussion. At last the woodwinds as the least important section. With this they are underselling the woodwinds in my opinion. From the few bits we heard so far to me the woodwinds were the best sounding.
> 
> Regarding chocolate. Cadbury? Quality Street? What's that?? You all should try the chocolate of Swiss boutique chocolatiers. From a brand, this one is seriously good:
> 
> https://www.laderach.com/shop/en/full-catalog.html




Exactly my thoughts, the woodwinds sounded incredible, and although I've never been a fan of their symphonic woodwinds (trouble with fast passages), the BBC ones seem promising... Last day for me to choose whether or not I'm getting this... The woodwinds were my top priority!


----------



## pawelmorytko

How would one make gliss runs with the harp in BBCSO? The percussion walkthrough didn't show much of the harp, but it did have a nice sound at least. No playable gliss patch, and gliss fx articulation only going up or down with no details on scales, how many notes per gliss or how fast or slow gliss are... Really wanted to see some more harp stuff as I'm looking for extensive glissandos for orchestral mock ups and that's why Cineharp/OT Harp seems to win this when it comes to the harp


----------



## Uiroo

L-A Desire said:


> Exactly my thoughts, the woodwinds sounded incredible, and although I've never been a fan of their symphonic woodwinds (trouble with fast passages), the BBC ones seem promising... Last day for me to choose whether or not I'm getting this... The woodwinds were my top priority!


I know what you mean regarding fast passages, they seem more suited for slow passages.
My hopes would be that the BBC Woodwinds are the fast counter part. We'll see.


----------



## mikeh-375

All this chocolate nonsense just Mar(r)s the thread....wah wah wah.


----------



## Saxer

pawelmorytko said:


> How would one make gliss runs with the harp in BBCSO?


Hand made gliss over the white keyboard keys and changing the needed scale notes. With the right key commands it's 6 clicks at most, depending on the scale. Takes a few seconds only and is the most flexible and editable way for my taste.


----------



## mikeh-375

Saxer said:


> Hand made gliss over the white keyboard keys and changing the needed scale notes. With the right key commands it's 6 clicks at most, depending on the scale. Takes a few seconds only and is the most flexible and editable way for my taste.



That's how I do it too, simple and quick


----------



## redlester

Well I’ve got the Munchies!


----------



## pawelmorytko

Saxer said:


> Hand made gliss over the white keyboard keys and changing the needed scale notes. With the right key commands it's 6 clicks at most, depending on the scale. Takes a few seconds only and is the most flexible and editable way for my taste.


Do you guys do the same for woodwind runs? On the website it says the legato can act as a fast runs patch, I guess I'm just not used to programming my own runs and always found it very unconvincing/clunky, where as performance runs have always sounded realistic and simple to use, you just find the scale, play the root note and voila


----------



## Øivind

I just got an SMS from FedEx in Norway, the need a purchace verification on my order so they can verify the content value. Because the package says HARD DRIVE and probably has the full order price set as Value.

Hopefully they will understand with the information i have given them that the harddrive is not valued at €794


----------



## mikeh-375

pawelmorytko said:


> Do you guys do the same for woodwind runs? On the website it says the legato can act as a fast runs patch, I guess I'm just not used to programming my own runs and always found it very unconvincing/clunky, where as performance runs have always sounded realistic and simple to use, you just find the scale, play the root note and voila



No, my runs are played in and are often not just a simple scale ascending or descending. (I did practise my scales...  )


----------



## constaneum

L-A Desire said:


> Exactly my thoughts, the woodwinds sounded incredible, and although I've never been a fan of their symphonic woodwinds (trouble with fast passages), the BBC ones seem promising... Last day for me to choose whether or not I'm getting this... The woodwinds were my top priority!



Same....the woodwinds...it's actually a very affordable full fledge orchestra, judging from the amount of MIC it comes with as well as the offered articulations regardless of 3 dynamics or what. Berlin woodwinds only has single dynamic right but I didn't hear ppl making a fuss about it?. So why BBC?


----------



## Sovereign

constaneum said:


> Berlin woodwinds only has single dynamic right but I didn't hear ppl making a fuss about it?. So why BBC?


Uhm, because your info is wrong? The regular Berlin orchestra woodwinds have several dynamics. The exceptions are the soloists expansions B and C, which only have a single velocity layer.


----------



## Cat

Woodwinds are more forgiving when it comes to low dynamic layers number, but for Brass - big problem. 
Berlin Winds (first edition) - 3 layers, but Brass , 4!

I listened to the bbcso Horns a4 walkthrough - it is so obvious the top layer is missing. The Cuivre artic is not that!


constaneum said:


> Same....the woodwinds...it's actually a very affordable full fledge orchestra, judging from the amount of MIC it comes with as well as the offered articulations regardless of 3 dynamics or what. Berlin woodwinds only has single dynamic right but I didn't hear ppl making a fuss about it?. So why BBC?


----------



## muk

The soloist expansions for the woodwinds have just one velocity layer to avoid audible crossfading. Instead they use filtering to simulate timbre changes. With woodwinds the number of dynamic layers is the least sensitive. Their timbres don't change as much with volume. Much less so than brass and strings. That's why I am not surprised that so far I found the woodwinds to sound the best.

Some users here heard from the demos and walkthroughs that Spitfire BBC SO does not have many dynamic layers. That shows that it is audible. How much it bothers you, that's up to you. It's a compromise. Considering the huge amount of content and the affordable price, it's not surprising that Spitfire had to draw the line somewhere. Personally, I would have traded in 10 of the 20 mic positions for two more dynamic layers in an instant. Your preferences may differ.


----------



## constaneum

Sovereign said:


> Uhm, because your info is wrong? The regular Berlin orchestra woodwinds have several dynamics. The exceptions are the soloists expansions B and C, which only have a single velocity layer.



Ah.....the expansions eh? My bad. Ahha


----------



## JohnG

Bluemount Score said:


> It's okay.
> I first thought the tree mic was invented by a guy called "tree".



It wasn't?


----------



## PerryD

JohnG said:


> It wasn't?


 Well, if I were mic'ing Mike, who sings in this tree, I would most certainly mic Mike with a tree mic. As Pavarotti once proclaimed, "Decca the halls!"


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

oivind_rosvold said:


> I just got an SMS from FedEx in Norway, the need a purchace verification on my order so they can verify the content value. Because the package says HARD DRIVE and probably has the full order price set as Value.
> 
> Hopefully they will understand with the information i have given them that the harddrive is not valued at €794


Did you get a confirmation from Spitfire that your order shipped? Does it still indicate "Pending" when you check your orders on their website. 

Will be interesting to see who else that ordered by 10/14 receives a notice that their order has shipped and is on the way.


----------



## synkrotron

Larry Hanshaw said:


> Did you get a confirmation from Spitfire that your order shipped? Does it still indicate "Pending" when you check your orders on their website.



Might be worth dropping Spitfire Audio a line. Or try their chat (I think it is closed at the moment but during normal working hours they seem to be on the ball and willing to help).


----------



## Bluemount Score

I went without the Spitfire SSD option. Ordered (...yet another) new external 1TB and am just waiting for the 24th  Actually the 25th or 26th, depending on my download speed. 27th, maybe.


----------



## mikeh-375

PerryD said:


> Well, if I were mic'ing Mike, who sings in this tree, I would most certainly mic Mike with a tree mic. As Pavarotti once proclaimed, "Decca the halls!"




...I dun wanna be miked.


----------



## AndyP

Damn, once too many clicks and already I need a new SSD. I hope I *get used to it*.


----------



## AndyP

Is there a video on the 3 zillion thread pages showing the string leader?


----------



## widekeys

AndyP said:


> Is there a video on the 3 zillion thread pages showing the string leader?




In this video every leader is showcased. In the general overview, there are also some articulations shown.


----------



## jamwerks

Sovereign said:


> Uhm, because your info is wrong? The regular Berlin orchestra woodwinds have several dynamics. The exceptions are the soloists expansions B and C, which only have a single velocity layer.


iinm Berlin WW Revive only does 2 layers except for Clarinets that have 3.


----------



## dzilizzi

jamwerks said:


> iinm Berlin WW Revive only does 2 layers except for Clarinets that have 3.


If that's true, then that is sad considering the price. I bought it at 40% off last black Friday. It sounds really good. But then I got my bonus check and at wishlist prices, the SSO was suddenly affordable. So now I hardly use BWW.


----------



## dzilizzi

LOL! I say that like I actually use any of these libraries on a regular basis. As a hobbyist, I don't use anything on a regular basis.


----------



## synkrotron

dzilizzi said:


> As a hobbyist, I don't use anything on a regular basis.



As you get older you begin to learn how to neglect close family and friends...


----------



## AndyP

widekeys said:


> In this video every leader is showcased. In the general overview, there are also some articulations shown.


Very nice solo sounds. Was about to buy the solo strings, but I decided for BBCSO today. The price and the sound is simply too good. 
I haven't quite understood yet where the difference between the BBCSO legato patches and the performance patches of the solo library is. But I think I get along well with the leader strings.
My neighbours have to do without internet from the 24th ...


----------



## widekeys

AndyP said:


> Very nice solo sounds. Was about to buy the solo strings, but I decided for BBCSO today. The price and the sound is simply too good.
> I haven't quite understood yet where the difference between the BBCSO legato patches and the performance patches of the solo library is. But I think I get along well with the leader strings.
> My neighbours have to do without internet from the 24th ...


I also preordered now, since the educational discount runs out in a short while. I'll wait a few days with the download and listen to user demos. If I really don't like the uncensored reviews, I can still return it within 14 days. I guess I will keep it though to complement Hollywood Orchestra.

The performance legato patches also implemented articulations like tremolo next to longs and short accents. The BBCSO legato seems to have just the long and the accents. Also the solo library seems to be alot deeper sampled in terms of articulations and dynamics.


----------



## AndyP

widekeys said:


> The performance legato patches also implemented articulations like tremolo next to longs and short accents. The BBCSO legato seems to have just the long and the accents. Also the solo library seems to be alot deeper sampled in terms of articulations and dynamics.


Thx. 
I got a couple solo string libraries, let's see how they harmonize.
So far the Fluffy Audio solo violin is my all-purpose weapon, but hard to play live because of the long delay.
A performance patch like the one described above is quite appealing.


----------



## widekeys

AndyP said:


> Thx.
> I got a couple solo string libraries, let's see how they harmonize.
> So far the Fluffy Audio solo violin is my all-purpose weapon, but hard to play live because of the long delay.
> A performance patch like the one described above is quite appealing.


Yes, you may want to listen to this: Violin Total Performance Legato
Impressive. The BBC one did note quite sound like it but its value probably lies in the "blendability" with the whole section as first chair soloist. For expressive solo strings I am waiting for the (hopefully coming) Black Friday sale by audiomodelling.


----------



## dzilizzi

synkrotron said:


> As you get older you begin to learn how to neglect close family and friends...


It's my first hobby of reading that tends to suck my time. And the fact I'm on a computer 8 to 9 hours a day for work. Though I think I sing every day. (My instrument)


----------



## synkrotron

dzilizzi said:


> It's my first hobby of reading that tends to suck my time.



Ah... You can read a Harry Potter book in one sitting  

I read a book at night nearly every night... But I have never considered it to be a hobby... More sort of one of life's essentials like eating and sleeping


----------



## redlester

Larry Hanshaw said:


> Did you get a confirmation from Spitfire that your order shipped? Does it still indicate "Pending" when you check your orders on their website.
> 
> Will be interesting to see who else that ordered by 10/14 receives a notice that their order has shipped and is on the way.



I would expect it to say the order is “pending” until it becomes available in the Spitfire app to install, on release day.


----------



## synthetic

I've never pre-ordered from Spitfire before. When it's released, will the library just appear in the Spitfire app? Or do they email you a serial number or something?


----------



## emasters

synthetic said:


> I've never pre-ordered from Spitfire before. When it's released, will the library just appear in the Spitfire app? Or do they email you a serial number or something?



Typically, they send you an email letting you know it's ready to be downloaded via the Spitfire app. If it's a Native Instruments Player library, they also provide the serial number. If it's a Spitfire Player library (like this one), no serial number needed - authentication is handled behind the scenes. Wil be interested to see what the download speed is -- that's a lot of bits to download


----------



## Zedcars

T-Minus...


'The Matrix Revolutions - Main Title' (200*3*) by Don Davis from the *3rd* Matrix movie (Matrix Revolutions):




'Harry Lime Theme' written and performed by Anton Karas for The *Third* Man movie. It's a 1949 British film noir directed by Carol Reed, written by Graham Greene, and starring Joseph Cotten, Alida Valli, Orson Welles, and Trevor Howard.

The film is set in post–World War II Vienna. It centres on Holly Martins, an American who is given a job in Vienna by his friend Harry Lime, but when Holly arrives in Vienna he gets the news that Lime is dead. Martins then meets with Lime's acquaintances in an attempt to investigate what he considers a suspicious death.

The atmospheric use of black-and-white expressionist cinematography by Robert Krasker, with harsh lighting and distorted "Dutch angle" camera technique, is a major feature of The *Third* Man. Combined with the iconic theme music, seedy locations and acclaimed performances from the cast, the style evokes the atmosphere of an exhausted, cynical post-war Vienna at the start of the Cold War:





Spitfire Audio PP021 Evo Grid 00*3* Strings in Motion (released 2016). Orchestrated by Ben Foskett. Trailer music by Oliver Patrice Weder:





Bonus track:
*3* hours of Erik Satie - Gymnopédie No.1 (1888):






*Three* is the number of dimensions that humans can perceive. Humans perceive the universe to have *three* spatial dimensions, but some theories, such as string theory, suggest there are more.
There is some evidence to suggest that early man may have used counting systems which consisted of "One, Two, *Three*" and thereafter "Many" to describe counting limits. Early peoples had a word to describe the quantities of one, two, and *three* but any quantity beyond was simply denoted as "Many". This is most likely based on the prevalence of this phenomenon among people in such disparate regions as the deep Amazon and Borneo jungles, where western civilisations’ explorers have historical records of their first encounters with these indigenous people.
Aristotle's *3* main modes of persuasion were Ethos, Pathos and Logos.


----------



## dzilizzi

Um, how many days until it comes out again???


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> Um, how many days until it comes out again???


Too many.


----------



## jononotbono

coprhead6 said:


> I had finally splurged on the full Spitfire Symphony Orchestra package just before this was announced....
> Can someone please make me feel better about my purchase? :/



The SSO is one of the best things you can ever spend your money on. You should be feeling splendiferous.


----------



## Fleer

Supercalifragilistic.


----------



## Zedcars

Fleer said:


> Supercalifragilistic.


T. rex had halitosis?


----------



## mikeh-375

Zedcars said:


> T. rex had halitosis?



even though the smell of it was something quite......


----------



## Øivind

Larry Hanshaw said:


> Did you get a confirmation from Spitfire that your order shipped? Does it still indicate "Pending" when you check your orders on their website.
> 
> Will be interesting to see who else that ordered by 10/14 receives a notice that their order has shipped and is on the way.



I have not gotten any confirmation from Spitfire. But FedEX required this info from me beacuse the Harddrive has arrived here in Norway. Delivery date to me set by FedEx is for Thursday 24th. Custom handeling can take a while here in Norway. But the package is currently awaiting customs clearing.


----------



## Creoin

A FedEx package from Spitfire Audio has also arrived in Japan to be delivered this week. Being so far away, I wasn't expecting it to arrive by the release date, but looks like it will!

Edit: As a side-note, the price of the drive includes international postage. I haven't noticed an additional postage charge.


----------



## AndyP

To do list:

1. create download folder
2. inform neighbors that the Internet is down for 2-3 days
3. buy new SSD
4. clean up the backup hard disk
5. buy beer
6. buy popcorn
7. buy frozen pizza
8. buy more beer 
9. *monitor download*


----------



## paulthomson

So just out of interest I was re-downloading the WW section a couple of days ago, I was also downloading some other stuff at the same time so it slowed my connection down a bit.. but its definitely possible to get great speeds from the S3 servers...


----------



## al_net77

I will happily test the 1Gbit S3 stability on release


----------



## AndyP

paulthomson said:


> So just out of interest I was re-downloading the WW section a couple of days ago, I was also downloading some other stuff at the same time so it slowed my connection down a bit.. but its definitely possible to get great speeds from the S3 servers...


Ahhh, good to see that the download is divided into several segments! 👍


----------



## L-A Desire

paulthomson said:


> So just out of interest I was re-downloading the WW section a couple of days ago, I was also downloading some other stuff at the same time so it slowed my connection down a bit.. but its definitely possible to get great speeds from the S3 servers...



So it will take me 7 hours to download the whole library! One will be able to play with the sections pretty fast then. Great stuff, can't wait!!


----------



## Saxer




----------



## pawelmorytko

Pretty please to anyone who has pre-ordered, can we have some delicious quick demos/examples of the library for those who are still considering getting it before the intro price finishes 💜


----------



## synkrotron

pawelmorytko said:


> can we have some delicious quick demos/examples of the library



I doubt very much that the BBC SO owners will be able to hold back their early noodlings


----------



## silouane

Just received SSD !!! But no player yet.


----------



## synkrotron

silouane said:


> Just received SSD !!! But no player yet.



Patience, young Grasshopper


----------



## Zedcars

silouane said:


> Just received SSD !!! But no player yet.


Did you get a dispatch notification email beforehand?


----------



## Sovereign

silouane said:


> Just received SSD !!! But no player yet.


You're not supposed to, you have to destroy it now.


----------



## silouane

Zedcars said:


> Did you get a dispatch notification email beforehand?


No, nothing


----------



## Bluemount Score

L-A Desire said:


> So it will take me 7 hours to download the whole library! One will be able to play with the sections pretty fast then. Great stuff, can't wait!!


Will probably download over night. The worst thing that could happen is indeed that Spitfire's servers are too slow, which for now doesn't seem to be the case.


----------



## redlester

paulthomson said:


> So just out of interest I was re-downloading the WW section a couple of days ago, I was also downloading some other stuff at the same time so it slowed my connection down a bit.. but its definitely possible to get great speeds from the S3 servers...



Wow! What ISP are you with? 

30Mbps here using Sky Fibre, and we don't live out in the sticks.


----------



## redlester

Am actually having pangs of slight disappointment that the sense of anticipation is drawing to a close!


----------



## vdk-john

silouane said:


> Just received SSD !!! But no player yet.



Cool! Mac or Windows?
What's the size of the library folder?
Could you send a couple of screenshots (unless there is something against it in the pre order terms and conditions) of the folders / files list?

(I'm not curious at all, nope)


----------



## silouane

vdk-john said:


> Cool! Mac or Windows?
> What's the size of the library folder?
> Could you send a couple of screenshots (unless there is something against it in the pre order terms and conditions) of the folders / files list?
> 
> (I'm not curious at all, nope)


It's for windows and 527 Go size, nothing more except a video for installation.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Back again.
I'd thought I'd clear a couple of things up before Download Day(™).

From what Paul is saying, the files will be delivered by Amazon S3. This means the Spitfire App will be connecting directly to Amazon AWS to download your sleigh bells and other miscellaneous instruments. In techie terms, it means that you're not downloading from Spitfire directly. You're downloading files that Spitfire have placed on publicly accessible Amazon servers.

I'd imagine that the BBCSO files are already safely nestled on the S3 servers, awaiting download requests. S3 servers scale to demand (and will be already serving millions of data requests from around the internet) so any connection or speed issues you encounter will be local to you and your specific connection to the 'web. The "Spitfire Servers" won't slow due to demand - as there's no such thing.

That's my understanding anyway based on my own work with AWS. Support may have more to say/correct. And if Spitfire are using the Cloudfront delivery network too, then it all gets rather clever. To conclude, there isn't a dusty black box with flashing lights under Paul's desk at Spitfire HQ serving BBCSO files to hungry downloaders..


----------



## AndyP

silouane said:


> It's for windows and 527 Go size, nothing more except a video for installation.


you could send it to me in between, then I save the download ...


----------



## BezO

AndyP said:


> Very nice solo sounds. Was about to buy the solo strings, but I decided for BBCSO today. The price and the sound is simply too good.
> I haven't quite understood yet where the difference between the BBCSO legato patches and the performance patches of the solo library is. But I think I get along well with the leader strings.
> My neighbours have to do without internet from the 24th ...


I'm in the same boat. I've been looking for solo strings for a while. Wanting them to be NKS made it a bit more challenging. I was >this< close to buying the Solo Strings, stacking the SCORE discount on top of the sale. Had they updated the Cello before the SCORE discount expired, I'd own it.

Kinda glad I didn't after hearing the string leaders in BBCSO. They sound great & it seems they received as much attention as the ensembles. And though they've been working fine for me, I've been considering supplementing/graduating from NI's Symphony Series libs. I'll probably wait until folks here provide some feedback, but this is a go.


----------



## silouane

AndyP said:


> you could send it to me in between, then I save the download ...


Sure ! If you have time to wait with my connexion of 6 Mb/s...


----------



## AndyP

silouane said:


> Sure, with a connexion of 6Mb/s...


----------



## Bluemount Score

silouane said:


> Sure ! If you have time to wait with my connexion of 6 Mb/s...


I'm not sure, sorry for asking, but is this even legal in late 2019?


----------



## Fleer

Less than 600 thus. Nice.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Fleer said:


> Less than 600 thus. Nice.


I'll take any gigabyte on top if it contains a bunch of high quality samples!


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Back again.


You didn’t last long did you!  

Welcome back.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> You didn’t last long did you!
> 
> Welcome back.


Haha! Blame it on those pesky red notifications. They're like a siren call and I couldn't work out how to turn them off..


----------



## synkrotron

Alex Fraser said:


> and I couldn't work out how to turn them off



You must have this topic set to "Watch"

Button to the top right of this (or any) post.


----------



## Alex Fraser

synkrotron said:


> You must have this topic set to "Watch"
> 
> Button to the top right of this (or any) post.


----------



## Loïc D

Alex Fraser said:


> Back again.
> I'd thought I'd clear a couple of things up before Download Day(™).


That chocolate shopping took you long time. 
Or maybe you were out to get a super big & heavy SSD ?...


----------



## Alex Fraser

LowweeK said:


> That chocolate shopping took you long time.
> Or maybe you were out to get a super big & heavy SSD ?...


In this house Quality Street is purchased "for Christmas" then immediately eaten, prompting another purchase. And the circle goes around until Christmas Day.

I'll have to wait until later in the year for a BBCSO purchase (blame it on my box-fresh daughter) but it doesn't stop me enjoying the banter and impending post release drama, right?


----------



## AndyP

To do list:

1. create download folder check
2. inform neighbors that the Internet is down for 2-3 days - I'm still struggling with this point, I have nasty neighbors.
3. buy new SSD check
4. clean up the backup hard disk check
5. buy beer check
6. buy popcorn check
7. buy frozen pizza check
8. buy more beer - a question of time
9. monitor download - 👀


----------



## AndyP

I've been ragging about the decision for a long time. But I am honest, at the latest the string leaders convinced me.
Now I have to skip the BF and can start the xmas sale again. Whether my nerves will endure it will be seen. 
I see myself chewing nails the BF offers pull past me ... I need an addiction therapy.


----------



## VinRice

Zedcars said:


> 'Harry Lime Theme' written and performed by Anton Karas for The *Third* Man movie. It's a 1949 British film noir directed by Carol Reed, written by Graham Greene, and starring Joseph Cotten, Alida Valli, Orson Welles, and Trevor Howard.



That film had a profound effect on me as a kid (no I didn't watch it in 1949, I'm not _that_ old). The 'Noir' style and the theme tune knocked me for six. The great un-washed non-musical masses think it's a zither but it's a cimbalom and Spitfire scratched that itch for me a few years ago. I try and squeeze it in somewhere on every gig. It's become my personal Easter egg.


----------



## VinRice

I was in the Czech republic for a design job about a year after the Berlin Wall came down and had a traditional restaurant band play it for me (yes they did know it, unsurprisingly).


----------



## VinRice

Listening to it again it's the traditional line up for band from that region. Cimbalom, Zither, 1 or 2 Acoustic guitars and an Accordion...

and back to the studio for your regular programming...


----------



## VinRice

Maybe a version of a bouzouki/zsoura type instrument instead of a guitar, the memory is hazy... 

sorry, carry on.


----------



## Sovereign

Here's my Already Done list:

1. Upgrade SSD to 2TB. Done
2. Upgrade fiber connection from 200 Mbps to 500 Mbps. Done.

Bring it on.


----------



## Denkii

I'll add shimmer shake strike, damage, genesis and the tarilonte ERAs to the SSD and be happy with my mobile setup.


----------



## JF

Of course my motherboard would die now. :(


----------



## Zedcars

VinRice said:


> That film had a profound effect on me as a kid (no I didn't watch it in 1949, I'm not _that_ old). The 'Noir' style and the theme tune knocked me for six. The great un-washed non-musical masses think it's a zither but it's a cimbalom and Spitfire scratched that itch for me a few years ago. I try and squeeze it in somewhere on every gig. It's become my personal Easter egg.


Great story. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Quick note on SSDs for those asking - If you ordered your SSD on or before Monday 14th October then if you're in the UK they were shipped today, if you're in Europe they were shipped last Friday and if you're anywhere else in the world, they shipped last Thursday.

Your order will remain "pending" until we make them active on Thursday of this week and you will not receive a shipping notification from us.

Ben


----------



## CT

Time to stop following this thread to minimize jealousy.


----------



## Zedcars

SpitfireSupport said:


> Quick note on SSDs for those asking - If you ordered your SSD on or before Monday 14th October then if you're in the UK they were shipped today, if you're in Europe they were shipped last Friday and if you're anywhere else in the world, they shipped last Thursday.
> 
> Your order will remain "pending" until we make them active on Thursday of this week and you will not receive a shipping notification from us.
> 
> Ben


Can you make mine active now please?


----------



## jbuhler

Paul seems to have used BBCSO (in part) to mock up a short bit of Goldsmith's Basic Instinct score: 

ETA: It's interesting to me where he chose to use BBCSO and where he chose other SF libraries.


----------



## Zedcars

Just got this text:


----------



## Zedcars

BTW, I should clarify that’s not come from SA, it’s from Royal Mail.

Looks like Christian was cutting it a bit fine when he went to post mine


----------



## Noeticus

Hello Paul,

Thanks for doing a "Basic Instinct" main theme walkthrough, as the theme is beyond fantastic, and very hypnotic!


----------



## Bluemount Score

miket said:


> Time to stop following this thread to minimize jealousy.


It's still possible to pre-order, so...


----------



## dzilizzi

miket said:


> Time to stop following this thread to minimize jealousy.


But how will you see those first reactions to it?


----------



## paulthomson

jbuhler said:


> Paul seems to have used BBCSO (in part) to mock up a short bit of Goldsmith's Basic Instinct score:
> 
> ETA: It's interesting to me where he chose to use BBCSO and where he chose other SF libraries.




oh!! Well apart from the celli where I wanted small sections - it was a bit random, just trying to spread the love and a bit wary of making like an advert for BBC SO 😂


----------



## Michael Stibor

dzilizzi said:


> But how will you see those first reactions to it?


Personally, I hope a new thread is started for first reactions. Be easier to go back and reference.


----------



## vdk-john

mikefrommontreal said:


> Personally, I hope a new thread is started for first reactions. Be easier to go back and reference.



I had exactly the same thought. Would be cool to have a "no chat" thread with only links to content from the community (YouTube videos / streams / audio tests on SoundCloud / etc.)


----------



## MarcHedenberg

I just got this in the mail. I must now make the difficult choice of turning up tomorrow for class or playing with this library all day.

Like I said...a very difficult choice....


----------



## cqd

MarcHedenberg said:


> I just got this in the mail. I must now make the difficult choice of turning up tomorrow for class or playing with this library all day.
> 
> Like I said...a very difficult choice....



You won't be able to play with it until Thursday..


----------



## MarcHedenberg

cqd said:


> You won't be able to play with it until Thursday..




Oh shit....I just realised that too.

Dammit, class it is.


----------



## José Herring

I have this odd urge to be the one that writes the 4,000th post.


----------



## PerryD

I will be quite impressed if my SSD ariives on time in my little town of Kennesaw, Georgia. I pre-ordered at the end of September. Spitfire did not charge for international shipping and if it was mailed out last Thursday...that would be pretty fast delivery! I'm glad there was no hostility toward all the unnecessary joking in this thread. I certainly contributed to it.


----------



## styledelk

PerryD said:


> I will be quite impressed if my SSD ariives on time in my little town of Kennesaw, Georgia. I pre-ordered at the end of September. Spitfire did not charge for international shipping and if it was mailed out last Thursday...that would be pretty fast delivery! I'm glad there was no hostility toward all the unnecessary joking in this thread. I certainly contributed to it.



Entirely possible that it's sent from Spitfire US in NY or LA.


----------



## PerryD

styledelk said:


> Entirely possible that it's sent from Spitfire US in NY or LA.


 Ah. I had not considered that!


----------



## CT

Bluemount Score said:


> It's still possible to pre-order, so...



For those with money, yes!


----------



## Portland

For my fellow Yanks, here's what I see so far on my USPS dashboard:






Destination is Nevada so I think it'll make it here on time.


----------



## Andrew0568

Just received via USPS in Sacramento, California!


----------



## Manaberry

Please don't mind me. I'm just adding another post to help reaching the 200 pages milestone.


----------



## Zedcars

Andrew0568 said:


> Just received via USPS in Sacramento, California!


Dying to hear some sounds from this thing...could you record yourself tapping the box a few times?


----------



## redlester

If it needs to be signed for that means I will be having to collect it from the Royal Mail depot as nobody will be in. Means I may not get my hands on it until Saturday.


----------



## redlester

SpitfireSupport said:


> Quick note on SSDs for those asking - If you ordered your SSD on or before Monday 14th October then if you're in the UK they were shipped today, if you're in Europe they were shipped last Friday and if you're anywhere else in the world, they shipped last Thursday.
> 
> Your order will remain "pending" until we make them active on Thursday of this week and you will not receive a shipping notification from us.
> 
> Ben



Have HDD’s also been dispatched today or just SSD’s?


----------



## Fleer

Almost there. Almost there. My precious.


----------



## constaneum

Fleer said:


> Almost there. Almost there. My precious.



almost 200 pages????????????????


----------



## Noeticus

Getting closer.... and closer.... to.... Ahhhhhhh!!! 4000 posts!!!


----------



## constaneum

Noeticus said:


> Getting closer.... and closer.... to.... Ahhhhhhh!!! 4000 posts!!!



4000 POSTS !!!! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## Portland

How many posts are we going for?


----------



## Fleer

3916 at least.


----------



## MaxOctane

Portland said:


> How many posts are we going for?



We need 200 pages by the 24th to unlock the release.


----------



## gtrwll

Was there info about what time the download will unlock?


----------



## bricop

Has there been any update on the BBCSO Logic Template that Christian and Jake have made? There was a version downloadable from one of the YouTube videos but wondering if there will be an official ‘release date’ version?


----------



## Maiestic9

Just received mine today is Southern California. Well packaged. Classy operation. Exciting stuff .


----------



## Zedcars

T-Minus...


The *Two* Towers soundtrack 'Foundations of Stone' (*2*00*2*) by Howard Shore from The Lord of the Rings Trilogy performed by the London Philharmonic Orchestra, the London Voices, and the London Oratory School Schola:





'*Two* Sides to Every Story' by Joe Satriani from his 13th studio album 'Black Swans and Wormhole Wizards' album released in *2*010.

Song start at 1:47:





'*Two* Mules for Sister Sara' (1970) movie starring Clint Eastwood and Shirley MacLaine. Soundtrack by Ennio Morricone - 'Main Title' performed by The City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra:





Bonus track:
This has to be the weirdest freakiest thing I have ever come across in my entire life...I bring you...Finger Fluttering for *2* Hours (No Talking). WTAF...? 😯






There are *2* polynucleotide strands in a DNA *double* helix.
*2* Pallas is a large asteroid in the main belt and the *second* asteroid ever to be discovered.


----------



## cqd

There's me watching ASMR finger fluttering for the next two hours..


----------



## SpitfireSupport

redlester said:


> Have HDD’s also been dispatched today or just SSD’s?



I was just talking about the SSDs. The HDDs are also shipping out early this week for everybody but they are being done in order of purchase rather than by location.


----------



## Daniel James

My hard drive order has processed but my library still says processing. Is that the same for everyone or just me?

-DJ


----------



## cqd

@SpitfireSupport Any idea what time we'll be able to begin downloading it?


----------



## erikradbo

Zedcars said:


> Bonus track:
> This has to be the weirdest freakiest thing I have ever come across in my entire life...I bring you...Finger Fluttering for *2* Hours (No Talking). WTAF...? 😯




that's so weird! I watched it for two minutes at work and I feel SO calm now.


----------



## vdk-john

Daniel James said:


> My hard drive order has processed but my library still says processing. Is that the same for everyone or just me?
> 
> -DJ



Hi,
They wrote SSD are being sent out before HDD and you won't get notified by them when it's shipped. The order will stay as pending till release date.

Edit: but you should get notified by the courier


----------



## Daniel James

vdk-john said:


> Hi,
> They wrote SSD are being sent out before HDD and you won't get notified by them when it's shipped. The order will stay as pending till release date.
> 
> Edit: but you should get notified by the courier


Cheers mate! 

-DJ


----------



## vdk-john

Daniel James said:


> Cheers mate!
> 
> -DJ



Np!
Found the post:





__





Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


and I couldn't work out how to turn them off You must have this topic set to "Watch" Button to the top right of this (or any) post.



vi-control.net


----------



## Zedcars

erikradbo said:


> that's so weird! I watched it for two minutes at work and I feel SO calm now.


Watch the rest at home maybe. Lol


----------



## erikradbo

Zedcars said:


> Watch the rest at home maybe. Lol



I'm a doctor and I gave my patients a more calm consultation after watching. Maybe a good start of the day, every day . Or maybe I should prescribe it...


----------



## Saxer

Just recieved my SSD... nice packaging, very Apple like.


----------



## Zedcars

Saxer said:


> Just recieved my SSD... nice packaging, very Apple like.


Me too. I’m gonna sit and stare at it now for the next 48 hours.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Me too. I’m gonna sit and stare at it now for the next 48 hours.


Use the time constructively and watch the new Star Wars trailer 5000 times.


----------



## redlester

cqd said:


> @SpitfireSupport Any idea what time we'll be able to begin downloading it?



You won’t be able to download it until it becomes live in your Spitfire app, because it downloads, installs and authorises all as one process. Which means Thursday at some point.


----------



## vdk-john

redlester said:


> You won’t be able to download it until it becomes live in your Spitfire app, because it downloads, installs and authorises all as one process. Which means Thursday at some point.



Yep, however it would be nice to know the exact time they plan to release it... One minute past midnight? At some point in the morning / afternoon / evening (UTC)?

I'm voting for just after midnight, but purely because I think it's more fair for users in Australia


----------



## Zedcars

vdk-john said:


> Yep, however it would be nice to know the exact time they plan to release it... One minute past midnight? At some point in the morning / afternoon / evening (UTC)?
> 
> I'm voting for just after midnight, but purely because I think it's more fair for users in Australia


According to this totally official  clock it's on the stroke of midnight...





__





Free Online Countdown Timer for Christmas, vacation and other events







www.arewethere.yt


----------



## redlester

vdk-john said:


> Yep, however it would be nice to know the exact time they plan to release it... One minute past midnight? At some point in the morning / afternoon / evening (UTC)?
> 
> I'm voting for just after midnight, but purely because I think it's more fair for users in Australia



Ha ha. As had been said previously new releases have tended to become live during the afternoon of release day (UK time). Who knows this time though.

This video from a few weeks ago describes a typical release day routine from around 2 minutes in.


----------



## redlester

SpitfireSupport said:


> I was just talking about the SSDs. The HDDs are also shipping out early this week for everybody but they are being done in order of purchase rather than by location.



I’m in Nottingham but my wife is in London for work today, just let me know and I’ll ask her to pop in and pick mine up!


----------



## synkrotron

fer fecks sake man, are we there yet?!

well... I should say you, cos I ain't on the same journey, unfortunately


----------



## constaneum

redlester said:


> You won’t be able to download it until it becomes live in your Spitfire app, because it downloads, installs and authorises all as one process. Which means Thursday at some point.



What ???? Does that mean I have to download using my DAW if I've purchased it? Cant do it on my other home PC with constant internet connection?


----------



## I like music

redlester said:


> I’m in Nottingham but my wife is in London for work today, just let me know and I’ll ask her to pop in and pick mine up!



You joke but ... wait, would this work? Ah no, of course, they've already sent them off. Just wondered if you could have mailed them in advance and said "I can pop in Thursday" like when you bought cricket bats...


----------



## I like music

constaneum said:


> What ???? Does that mean I have to download using my DAW if I've purchased it? Cant do it on my other home PC with constant internet connection?



Risk that virus baby...


----------



## synkrotron

constaneum said:


> What ???? Does that mean I have to download using my DAW if I've purchased it? Cant do it on my other home PC with constant internet connection?



You can install the SA app on another PC and copy the downloaded library across to your DAW PC.


----------



## redlester

constaneum said:


> What ???? Does that mean I have to download using my DAW if I've purchased it? Cant do it on my other home PC with constant internet connection?



No, the Spitfire installer app, not the actual DAW plugin.


----------



## Fleer

redlester said:


> This video from a few weeks ago describes a typical release day routine from around 2 minutes in.



Looks like a great team!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Really waiting for the woodwind walkthrough, even if I already pre-ordered...
If I remember correctly, there is only one instrument we yet didn't heared anything of, not even in the main walkthrough released weeks ago...
The mighty piccolo.
And I like my piccolo. Where and why is it hiding? Really hope it's a good choice for fast runs.


----------



## TGV

53 more posts to go. Come on team. We can do it. Especially if synkrotron will start counting down the hours on the last day with one video per hour left.


----------



## I like music

If you have a TV license, does it get you a discount?


----------



## cqd

Bluemount Score said:


> Really waiting for the woodwind walkthrough, even if I already pre-ordered...
> If I remember correctly, there is only one instrument we yet didn't heared anything of, not even in the main walkthrough released weeks ago...
> The mighty piccolo.
> And I like my piccolo. Where and why is it hiding? Really hope it's a good choice for fast runs.



Surely today..probably about 5..


----------



## synkrotron

TGV said:


> We can do it



Easily... Should hit the 4000 target before the day is out...

It's the 5000 target that may prove a bit more difficult


----------



## Bluemount Score

cqd said:


> Surely today..probably about 5..


Could also be the legato video they announced, which would be interesting as well of course


----------



## Saxer

BBC-Control Forum


----------



## Bluemount Score

Saxer said:


> BBC-Control Forum


sponsored by Spitfire Audio

EDIT: Actually it's the other way around, us sponsoring Spitfire if I think about it.


----------



## redlester

Bluemount Score said:


> Really waiting for the woodwind walkthrough, even if I already pre-ordered...
> If I remember correctly, there is only one instrument we yet didn't heared anything of, not even in the main walkthrough released weeks ago...
> The mighty piccolo.
> And I like my piccolo. Where and why is it hiding? Really hope it's a good choice for fast runs.



The woodwinds are featured in the main walkthrough. From 19 minutes in.

But as Paul posted recently indicating his download speed for downloading the woodwinds section, am guessing the detailed walkthrough was precisely what he was up to!


----------



## Bluemount Score

redlester said:


> The woodwinds are featured in the main walkthrough. From 19 minutes in.
> 
> But as Paul posted recently indicating his download speed for downloading the woodwinds section, am guessing the detailed walkthrough was precisely what he was up to!


Yes, but as I said, he forgot to include the piccolo in that video. Everything else is shown and sounds lovely! Looking at what I've seen of this library so far (no final statement should be made before playing on your own ofc), I highly doubt that the piccolo is gonna be a disappointing exception.


----------



## Michael Stibor

synkrotron said:


> Easily... Should hit the 4000 target before the day is out...
> 
> It's the 5000 target that may prove a bit more difficult


Maybe I missed something. What happens if it gets to 4000 posts?


----------



## Michael Stibor

Yeah, seriously. Where's that woodwind walkthrough. It's really the only one I care about.


----------



## synkrotron

mikefrommontreal said:


> Maybe I missed something. What happens if it gets to 4000 posts?



Not telling


----------



## redlester

mikefrommontreal said:


> Maybe I missed something. What happens if it gets to 4000 posts?



It releases the woodwind walkthrough!


----------



## synkrotron

redlester said:


> It releases the woodwind walkthrough!




Oi!


----------



## Bluemount Score

mikefrommontreal said:


> Maybe I missed something. What happens if it gets to 4000 posts?


BBC Piano and BBC Choir will be added for free 


(they will not)


----------



## cqd

Piano should be..

Choir I wont mind paying a small fee for..


----------



## synkrotron

Bluemount Score said:


> (they will not)



good job you added that bit...


----------



## dzilizzi

So it looks like we will hit 200 pages before we hit 4000 posts. Would be fun if they were on the same page.


----------



## Loïc D

At 4000 Nestlé becomes official sponsor of Vi-C and gets a position in board, bribing moderators with Quality Street tin boxes and taking control of the community.
Vi-C becomes an official chocolate community website (who needs music after all?...). Contributors are posting pictures instead of cues, creating a new trends that brings back Flickr from the dead and pushes SoundCloud into oblivion.

Oh my... too much chocolate.

(on a personal side, my wife, former scholar at Alain Ducasse cooking school, creates chocolates & macarons near to perfect. I tried to bribe Christian without luck. I should try Paul...)


----------



## ridgero

dzilizzi said:


> So it looks like we will hit 200 pages before we hit 4000 posts. Would be fun if they were on the same page.



Post 4000 will be the last posting on page 200...


----------



## Zedcars

OT (like everything’s been on topic in this thread!):

Why is everyone obsessed with zero’s? I don’t just mean in this thread, I mean in general - why are humans drawn to numbers ending in zero? Kind of an interesting question from a psychological point of view.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Zedcars said:


> OT (like everything’s been on topic in this thread!):
> 
> Why is everyone obsessed with zero’s? I don’t just mean in this thread, I mean in general - why are humans drawn to numbers ending in zero? Kind of an interesting question from a psychological point of view.


That's a pretty interesting question. Humans like to have things completed, and for somehow every 0 as a last number completes a step, at least in our imaginations that formed what we call mathematics.

However, the only 0 I see right now is my bank account after purchasing BBCSO.


----------



## gussunkri

Zedcars said:


> Why is everyone obsessed with zero’s? I don’t just mean in this thread, I mean in general - why are humans drawn to numbers ending in zero? Kind of an interesting question from a psychological point of view.


They are so beautifully round. See also Aristotle and the idea of the circle as the most perfect shape.


----------



## Noeticus

This is a test of the emergency testing-a-post system.

There is no need to panic.


----------



## synkrotron

Zedcars said:


> why are humans drawn to numbers ending in zero?



An interesting thing indeed, and may partly explain why a high majority of my own creations last whole minutes, sometimes ten, which is just a one and a zero, followed by a decimal point, and then two more zeros.


----------



## Alex Fraser

This thread has *at least* another 1K posts to go. Don't forget, we've got the usual post release Spitfire V.I.C Drama™ to look forward to ("the solo horn patch has tuning issues on the third round robin and SF won't refund me...") and all the rest. 

I'm looking forward to seeing what Zedcars has planned for release day. No pressure, mate.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> OT (like everything’s been on topic in this thread!):
> 
> Why is everyone obsessed with zero’s? I don’t just mean in this thread, I mean in general - why are humans drawn to numbers ending in zero? Kind of an interesting question from a psychological point of view.



It's your job to bombard us with facts about zero, on Thursday!

As a starter, there's enough to go at on the subject of division by zero, let alone any of its other properties.

In music, Martin Hannett, famously the in-house Factory Records producer who created the Joy Division sound amongst other things, was also known as Martin Zero.


----------



## Fleer

redlester said:


> It releases the woodwind walkthrough!


Gas.


----------



## Patrick.K

Bluemount Score said:


> However, the only 0 I see right now is my bank account after purchasing BBCSO.



That's why I'm waiting for next month to invest in BBCSO and Solo Strings .
But during this time, I will have time to read your opinion's, but it will take a long time to wait ...
I hope that with the "Brexit" there will be no additional taxes! ...


----------



## synkrotron

Patrick9152 said:


> "Brexit"




AAAARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Patrick9152 said:


> That's why I'm waiting for next month to invest in BBCSO and Solo Strings .
> But during this time, I will have time to read your opinion's, but it will take a long time to wait ...
> I hope that with the "Brexit" there will be no additional taxes! ...


It's because of the student discount that ended yesterday and got me another $100 or so off.
Brexit on the other hand could mean a couple more years for you to wait, nobody knows 

First feedback from forum members beforehand will be very helpful of course.


----------



## redlester

I'm still convinced it's going to be subscription.


----------



## Soundhound

Because we all feel utterly empty inside?



Zedcars said:


> OT (like everything’s been on topic in this thread!):
> 
> Why is everyone obsessed with zero’s? I don’t just mean in this thread, I mean in general - why are humans drawn to numbers ending in zero? Kind of an interesting question from a psychological point of view.


----------



## synkrotron

Soundhound said:


> Because we all feel utterly empty inside?



That reminds me... Time for Tea


----------



## Alex Fraser

Pointless post other than to say....200 pages!!


----------



## Soundhound

Zero: The Biography of a Dangerous Idea - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org







redlester said:


> It's your job to bombard us with facts about zero, on Thursday!
> 
> As a starter, there's enough to go at on the subject of division by zero, let alone any of its other properties.
> 
> In music, Martin Hannett, famously the in-house Factory Records producer who created the Joy Division sound amongst other things, was also known as Martin Zero.


----------



## Patrick.K

Bluemount Score said:


> It's because of the student discount that ended yesterday and got me another $100 or so off.
> Brexit on the other hand could mean a couple more years for you to wait, nobody knows



Spitfire audio should make a more flexible payment system such as a three-time payment or a monthly subscription, i do not know ...


----------



## synkrotron

Patrick9152 said:


> Spitfire audio should make a more flexible payment system such as a three-time payment or a monthly subscription, i do not know ...



I am sure that Spitfire Audio would reject any kind of flexible payment system.


----------



## redlester

synkrotron said:


> I am sure that Spitfire Audio would reject any kind of flexible payment system.



My credit and debit cards are both quite flexible!


----------



## synkrotron

Anyway... This isn't getting my Tea made... See you on the other side of 3999...

(5000 next)


----------



## dzilizzi

Twelve more posts? I have to guess since it shows someone posted


----------



## vdk-john

Woodwinds!


----------



## jbuhler

Woodwind walkthrough at last:


----------



## CT

Really nice of all of you to hold off on purchasing until I can manage it, but please, go ahead. We should support the fine people of Spitfire.


----------



## artomatic

Just wanting to be part of Page 200!


----------



## Patrick.K

vdk-john said:


> Woodwinds!



Cool...


----------



## cqd

Hey..


----------



## cqd

Is the zeros thing not due to our base 10 decimal number system?..


----------



## cqd

Woods.. finally..


----------



## cqd

Almost..


----------



## widekeys

Wow, the woodwinds sound really great!


----------



## cqd

And..


----------



## vdk-john

Argh you cheated

Uh, now this post is number 4000
Victory is mine :D


----------



## widekeys

cqd said:


> And..


Excuse me. I timed my valuable response to be exactly post number 4000.


----------



## cqd

widekeys said:


> Excuse me. I timed my valuable response to be exactly post number 4000.


I know..I'm glad it was something constructive and not just me being a dickhead..
Congratulations.. you must be very proud..


----------



## blue book

widekeys said:


> Wow, the woodwinds sound really great!



Last post on page 200 was post #4000


widekeys said:


> Excuse me. I timed my valuable response to be exactly post number 4000.


And you were the last post on page 200. A masterpiece of timing!


----------



## Sovereign

Anyway the woodwinds sound great, very lively sound.


----------



## MaxOctane

Damnit, missed it


----------



## widekeys

cqd said:


> I know..I'm glad it was something constructive and not just me being a dickhead..
> Congratulations.. you must be very proud..


I waited 30 minutes for this so yes. This might be the best investment of my time today, I am proud.

However. Finally we got to hear the piccolo. I also quite like the ability to play the marcato at different lengths. I worried a bit that the lack of shorts limit the agile phrases, but the marcato with staccatissimo seems to cover that. Sounds natural to stop it early.


----------



## Patrick.K

widekeys said:


> Wow, the woodwinds sound really great!


They really do a great job, they will soon become leaders, but what are Orchestral Tools doing?


----------



## Noeticus

Can we please talk about the upcoming 5000th post!


----------



## synkrotron

Patrick9152 said:


> Orchestral Tools



Who are the Orchestral Tools?


----------



## Patrick.K

synkrotron said:


> Who are the Orchestral Tools?


----------



## pawelmorytko

The flutes sound gorgeous


----------



## Spitfire Team

The Woodwinds Walkthrough is now live!


----------



## synkrotron

Spitfire Team said:


> Woodwinds Walkthrough



watching now... Very nice...


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> It's your job to bombard us with facts about zero, on Thursday!
> 
> As a starter, there's enough to go at on the subject of division by zero, let alone any of its other properties.
> 
> In music, Martin Hannett, famously the in-house Factory Records producer who created the Joy Division sound amongst other things, was also known as Martin Zero.


That’s just it. Due to a certain thing happening this Thursday, my posts about the number zero will be roughly equivalent to, um...*0*.


----------



## jamwerks

Definitely the best WW's currently available !!


----------



## Noeticus

Was hoping to hear the Legato Flute without vibrato and then with.

It all sounds great though!


----------



## synkrotron

Some great low end textures going on with the Bassoon...

And that Bass Clarinet


----------



## cqd

Dynamic layers seem kind of lacking again though..


----------



## Patrick.K

Very impressive, thank's so much Mr. Paul Thomson, Spitfire has done a great job, because the Woodwinds are difficult to be credible, there are many nuances in the interpretation are made possible now, well done Spitfire..We live a great time and I feel we will have many good surprises who will arrive !.


----------



## José Herring

Nooooo! I went to sleep and missed my chance to be the 4000th post!

Oh well, I can hold out for 5000th now.


----------



## synkrotron

josejherring said:


> Oh well, I can hold out for 5000th now



Yeah, just don't sleep between now and the 5000th post


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> It's your job to bombard us with facts about zero, on Thursday!
> 
> As a starter, there's enough to go at on the subject of division by zero, let alone any of its other properties.
> 
> In music, Martin Hannett, famously the in-house Factory Records producer who created the Joy Division sound amongst other things, was also known as Martin Zero.


Can’t I hand the baton to you for the final leg? You seem to know an awful lot about nothing!


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Can’t I hand the baton to you for the final leg? You seem to know an awful lot about nothing!



That was it! I know nothing else.


----------



## Zedcars

josejherring said:


> Nooooo! I went to sleep and missed my chance to be the 4000th post!
> 
> Oh well, I can hold out for 5000th now.


Don’t worry, all you have to do is just keep reposting that same post another 976 times.


----------



## Michael Stibor

Oh man, not sure about those woodwinds. All the articulations sounds GREAT to me _except_ the legatos. They sound a little synthy to me, just like they do on the studio woodwinds.


----------



## synkrotron

mikefrommontreal said:


> Oh man, not sure about those woodwinds. All the articulations sounds GREAT to me _except_ the legatos. They sound a little synthy to me, just like they do on the studio woodwinds.



Look on the bright side... Do not purchase BBC SO and save a big chunk of money.


----------



## TGV

Does anybody else feel the impulse to click and shift the plugin window when looking at the walkthroughs?


----------



## Bluemount Score

Woodwinds are great. Piccolo included 
This however was the first video where I definitely noticed a missing pp or ff layer. Should help to double with some CC11 (volume) crossfading. A little sad, however not dramatic. That's what you get for <1000 bucks.


----------



## Bluemount Score

mikefrommontreal said:


> Oh man, not sure about those woodwinds. All the articulations sounds GREAT to me _except_ the legatos. They sound a little synthy to me, just like they do on the studio woodwinds.


Didn't bothered me too much honestly. It did at the very beginning when Paul played the flute pretty fast, but not overall.
May I carefully ask if there is a WW library you prefer? I already pre-ordered, so Spitfire can't be mad at me for going with a different option


----------



## dzilizzi

Bluemount Score said:


> Didn't bothered me too much honestly. It did at the very beginning when Paul played the flute pretty fast, but not overall.
> May I carefully ask if there is a WW library you prefer? I already pre-ordered, so Spitfire can't be mad at me for going with a different option


I find they sound like pipe organs to me a lot of the time. The violins will sound synthy. These were pretty good. I have BWW Revive and they can sound just as synthy. You cannot play a standard triad and expect it not to sound a little synthy without doing something to fix it in modulation or adding a little vibrato. People don't blow that steady.


----------



## dzilizzi

I was going to add the Oboes actually sounded good to me. That is a setting on the pipe organ, so it can get very organish.


----------



## Michael Stibor

synkrotron said:


> Look on the bright side... Do not purchase BBC SO and save a big chunk of money.


Ha, if only it were that simple. I'm not prepared to NOT buy the program because of my disappointment over the winds, but at the same time time I have lots of good string and brass samples so strong woodwind legatos were critical in my decision making.


----------



## Michael Stibor

Bluemount Score said:


> Didn't bothered me too much honestly. It did at the very beginning when Paul played the flute pretty fast, but not overall.
> May I carefully ask if there is a WW library you prefer? I already pre-ordered, so Spitfire can't be mad at me for going with a different option


Nope, not really. But they sound the same as their studio woodwinds (which I own) and they're not great. I still use VSL winds over them 90% of the time. For long notes and legatos that is.


----------



## synkrotron

mikefrommontreal said:


> decision making



And your decision is?

If your decision is somehow affected by a wish to have the bright new thing then, yeah, that is problematic.

It seems to me that you should at least wait until some of the independent reviews are posted...


----------



## Michael Stibor

synkrotron said:


> And your decision is?
> 
> If your decision is somehow affected by a wish to have the bright new thing then, yeah, that is problematic.
> 
> It seems to me that you should at least wait until some of the independent reviews are posted...


Oh trust me I am. Nothing is decided. But I'm required to add "poor woodwind legatos" into the CON category. There's a lot of PROs too.


----------



## Bluemount Score

mikefrommontreal said:


> Nope, not really. But they sound the same as their studio woodwinds (which I own) and they're not great. I still use VSL winds over them 90% of the time. For long notes and legatos that is.


Thank you, VSL is not really for me whatsoever. In the meantime, I'm still waiting for that one WW library by a developer who shall not be named but already made some king-of-legato strings and brass


----------



## Michael Stibor

Bluemount Score said:


> Thank you, VSL is not really for me whatsoever. In the meantime, I'm still waiting for that one WW library by a developer who shall not be named but already made some king-of-legato strings and brass


So am I. Literally the same boat. 

And I am definitely not recommending VSL. If I was, then I wouldn't be looking for a new program. But winds are my weakest sounds. Still haven't found what I'm looking for. Hey! That would make a great song title!


----------



## synkrotron

mikefrommontreal said:


> There's a lot of PROs too



There you go, then! Make that purchase


----------



## AndyP

"Brexit" 
[/QUOTE]
Raising download taxes!


----------



## Michael Stibor

synkrotron said:


> There you go, then! Make that purchase


LOL, I have other CONS too. 

Actually that's not completely true. In my case CONs should stand for Concerns. I'm concerned about the cost. Concerned about whether I need it or not, concerned about how other libraries will integrate into the BBC atmosphere, etc.


----------



## synkrotron

mikefrommontreal said:


> I'm concerned about the cost.



Understandable, although, reading the thoughts of other here in this topic, the cost is somewhat reasonable considering what you are getting, regardless of any cons.



mikefrommontreal said:


> Concerned about whether I need it or not



But isn't that always the case? I mean, collectively, how much stuff do we have on our 'Puter that we don't really need in order to be creative.

Further on this, if we had the money we would have everything under the sun and try to use it at least once. A bit like Imelda Marcos' shoes 



mikefrommontreal said:


> concerned about how other libraries will integrate into the BBC atmosphere



Then do not go down that route... Use the BBC SO on its lonesome


----------



## jbuhler

One thing I'm hoping to hear from early adopters is how consistent the library is across instruments. Can you move midi around and not have to make many adjustments to velocities and CCs? Do the articulations line up so again you don't have to make too many adjustments as you move the midi around. Those would be big time savers, and the many inconsistencies of SSO are one of its big drawbacks.


----------



## John R Wilson

Everything sounds pretty good to me. I like the sound of the room. However, my main concern is regarding the legato patches throughout the library. To me the strings legato sounded quite synthy.


----------



## rudi

mikefrommontreal said:


> Maybe I missed something. What happens if it gets to 4000 posts?


A walkthrough + performance of....

*4'33" by John Cage*


----------



## synkrotron

rudi said:


> 4'33" by John Cage



I am wondering if BBC SO could be put to use with this inspirational piece.


----------



## cqd

synkrotron said:


> I am wondering if BBC SO could be put to use with this inspirational piece.



You could probably attempt it, but I suspect you'd be able to tell it was samples a mile off..


----------



## synkrotron

synkrotron said:


> I am wondering if BBC SO could be put to use with this inspirational piece.



On a more serious note... I have been led to believe that you just have to be there when it comes to experiencing 4'33"

All the creaks, coughs and other various ambiences are what this piece is about.


----------



## redlester

At last, have had my tracking number and delivery info. Phew.


----------



## Loïc D

jbuhler said:


> One thing I'm hoping to hear from early adopters is how consistent the library is across instruments. Can you move midi around and not have to make many adjustments to velocities and CCs? Do the articulations line up so again you don't have to make too many adjustments as you move the midi around. Those would be big time savers, and the many inconsistencies of SSO are one of its big drawbacks.


Same in the Studio series (especially on Brass. WW are ok. I don't own Strings).


----------



## Alex Fraser

mikefrommontreal said:


> LOL, I have other CONS too.
> 
> Actually that's not completely true. In my case CONs should stand for Concerns. I'm concerned about the cost. Concerned about whether I need it or not, concerned about how other libraries will integrate into the BBC atmosphere, etc.


I have similar lists. Lots in the pros. Unfortunately, the cons has: _"Need to buy new washing machine." 😡_


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> At last, have had my tracking number and delivery info. Phew.


I thought you said you were going to miss the delivery? If you give the info to me, I can collect it at the depot - it’ll save you all that hassle. Waddaya say buddy boy?  

Edit: If you could also forward your activation code I’ll keep that safe for you too.


----------



## John R Wilson

I'm waiting for the legato video walkthrough before deciding whether to buy. Problem is the educational discount code I've got runs out tomorrow. Also, does anyone know if the legato in the BBC SO is similar to the performance legato in SSO and other spitfire libraries.


----------



## Michael Stibor

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Everything sounds pretty good to me. I like the sound of the room. However, my main concern is regarding the legato patches throughout the library. To me the strings legato sounded quite synthy.


I agree. When will companies learn that top quality legatos are one of (if not THE) most important aspects for potential buyers? It should be priority number one. You can keep your flautandos and your col legnos if you haven't gotten those legatos just right.

Not trying to ponitificate though. I still think that BBCSO seems like a great product and will likely buy it at one point.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Problem is the educational discount code I've got runs out tomorrow.


Hm, the -40% EDU discount offer already ended yesterday, the 21st for me? I'm talking about that "back to school" deal


----------



## thomasjdev

Bluemount Score said:


> Hm, the -40% EDU discount offer already ended yesterday, the 21st for me? I'm talking about that "back to school" deal


If you already had them generate a discount code for you during the EDU offer I think they set it to expire on the 23rd


----------



## al_net77

I like very much the timpani here


----------



## Bluemount Score

al_net77 said:


>



Yes, that's the walkthrough from last week


----------



## al_net77

Bluemount Score said:


> Yes, that's the walkthrough from last week



Argh, did not have the time to add the sentence 
Do you live on VI?


----------



## Bluemount Score

al_net77 said:


> Argh, did not have the time to add the sentence
> Do you live on VI?


Yes! I get paid for that! (I wish)
Got notified there was a new reply and *swoooosh*, there I am!

I really like the timpani as well though.


----------



## PerryD

Patiently waiting for my SSD delivery. If it comes via USPS, I certainly won't get any advance notice. Ha! I was just imagining if CD's or (gasp) floppies were still a delivery option. "Here are your 650 CD's...or 500,000 floppies!" Wouldn't _that _be a fun install.


----------



## José Herring

rudi said:


> A walkthrough + performance of....
> 
> *4'33" by John Cage*



I wonder if John Cage gets royalties for this recording.


----------



## ed buller

Mmmmmmm


----------



## Zedcars

josejherring said:


> I wonder if John Cage gets royalties for this recording.


If he did, he stayed silent about it.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> I thought you said you were going to miss the delivery? If you give the info to me, I can collect it at the depot - it’ll save you all that hassle. Waddaya say buddy boy?
> 
> Edit: If you could also forward your activation code I’ll keep that safe for you too.



I will be at work. Will pick it up Thursday morning from the sorting office, but thanks for the offer. 

Softly softly, Zedcars. 
(A joke for fans of 1960’s UK cop shows).


----------



## Hadrondrift

Zedcars said:


> If he did, he stayed silent about it.


Interestingly, that 4'33'' video is not available for me in my country (Germany), YouTube tells me: "The user who uploaded the video, doesn't make it available in your country." So no silence for me.


----------



## Zedcars

Hadrondrift said:


> Interestingly, that 4'33'' video is not available for me in my country (Germany), YouTube tells me: "The user who uploaded the video, doesn't make it available in your country." So no silence for me.


A VPN would be my suggestion. I sometimes have to use one when certain videos are US only.

Don't suffer in silence...


----------



## Bluemount Score

Hadrondrift said:


> Interestingly, that 4'33'' video is not available for me in my country (Germany), YouTube tells me: "The user who uploaded the video, doesn't make it available in your country." So no silence for me.


Can confirm. BBC seems to be illegal in Germany.


----------



## Zedcars

Anyone else get an email from them saying:

"The Wait Is Almost Over — 48 Hours Until Release"

It was sent at 7:39pm (BST), but I've only just seen it.

So does that mean I can't activate until after 7pm on the 24th? I took the day off work because I wanted to play with it all day.


----------



## synkrotron

If it was me I'd be up a 12:01 on the 24th and I'd keep clicking that button until it registered...


----------



## John R Wilson

thomasjdev said:


> If you already had them generate a discount code for you during the EDU offer I think they set it to expire on the 23rd



Yeah that's what they did with me. I applied for the discount code on the last day, expires on the 23rd


----------



## redlester

I must have cloth ears I think, the legatos sound great to me!


----------



## JohnG

mikefrommontreal said:


> Maybe I missed something. What happens if it gets to 4000 posts?



We each win £5


----------



## dzilizzi

synkrotron said:


> Further on this, if we had the money we would have everything under the sun and try to use it at least once. A bit like Imelda Marcos' shoes


Funny that you mention shoes....that used to be my big buying addiction until I discovered sample libraries (and started having knee problems) Never got up to her level though.....


----------



## synkrotron

dzilizzi said:


> Never got up to her level though...



Shoes or sample libraries


----------



## redlester

As if by magic, a legatos demo!


----------



## Manaberry

I've been told I received something and then...


----------



## BlackCoyote

redlester said:


> As if by magic, a legatos demo!




That is one lovely demo.


----------



## dzilizzi

synkrotron said:


> Shoes or sample libraries


i'm going to guess I have a lot more sample libraries than her. But I don't have as many sample libraries as she had shoes. At least I don't think I do. Wait...no, I'm still a few short....


----------



## Odum Abekah

redlester said:


> As if by magic, a legatos demo!




Fantastic sound - very lush and emotive. Can’t wait to get my hands on it! It seems to do very well with the dynamic layers it does have.


----------



## widekeys

Odum Abekah said:


> Fantastic sound - very lush and emotive. Can’t wait to get my hands on it! It seems to do very well with the dynamic layers it does have.


Yep. Nice and soft here. With some good and firm statements of the whole orchestral string body.


----------



## Loïc D

Man, those libraries can do wonders indeed.
BTW this and Andy's demos, I think we live blessed times.
I would never have dreamt libraries could sound like this 20 years ago (before that I was playing punk music).


----------



## Denkii

Alex Fraser said:


> I have similar lists. Lots in the pros. Unfortunately, the cons has: _"Need to buy new washing machine." 😡_


All these excuses...babies were supposedly born, washing machines need to be bought.
We don't buy it.
PRE!
ORDER!
NOW!


----------



## dzilizzi

I'd say my recently purchased fridge beats your washing machine. But I was waiting for the wishlist sale anyway. I really, really don't need it. It is great sounding and I want to hear the first impressions everyone has. Plus I need to know if the chocolate is worth it.


----------



## gpax

It has arrived.


----------



## Lady Gaia

BlackCoyote said:


> That is one lovely demo.



That‘s a serious understatement. Wow. It’s a really powerful showcase of what a lot of talent and some dedicated effort can tease out of this library.


----------



## Joël Dollié

Lady Gaia said:


> That‘s a serious understatement. Wow. It’s a really powerful showcase of what a lot of talent and some dedicated effort can tease out of this library.



Luke did amazing on this demo ! 

Having mixed it, I can say that this library is truly great when it comes to the quality of the recordings and the mic positions. It takes extra reverb extremely well and the roomier mic positions really give tons of early reflections. You can really decide if you want more of an "air studios style" lush sound or something more upfront. The stereo field is also amazing. Tons of libraries can feel too narrow when you start panning a bit, but this one gives a really wide but natural sound out of the box. From a mix standpoint it might just be my favourite of all time.. With that said it's also worth noting that the arrangement/balance of the dynamics plays a huge role when it comes to how cohesive everything sounds and Luke did a great job with that which made things much easier.

One thing to note is that it's really raw out of the box, and as a result it's quite mid-rangy, so in most cases you'll want to cut quite a bit of mids to get a cleaner sound. Probably moreso than when mixing libraries from other manufacturers. Nothing wrong with that, just something to be aware of.


----------



## jaketanner

Joël Dollié said:


> One thing to note is that it's really raw out of the box, and as a result it's quite mid-rangy, so in most cases you'll want to cut quite a bit of mids to get a cleaner sound. Probably moreso than when mixing libraries from other manufacturers. Nothing wrong with that, just something to be aware of.


Hell...mixing a live recording is way worse than mixing libraries..


----------



## PhilipJohnston

Playability question for the Spitfire Team: Can anyone confirm which instruments in BBCSO ship with Performance Legato scripting? 

(Your Overview video opens with Violins 1 showcasing the scripting in action)

Is this ability to dynamically switch between legato and staccato within a single articulation implemented for all brass, string and woodwind instruments? If, not which ones missed the cut?


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

Joël Dollié said:


> Luke did amazing on this demo !
> 
> Having mixed it, I can say that this library is truly great when it comes to the quality of the recordings and the mic positions. It takes extra reverb extremely well and the roomier mic positions really give tons of early reflections. You can really decide if you want more of an "air studios style" lush sound or something more upfront. The stereo field is also amazing. Tons of libraries can feel too narrow when you start panning a bit, but this one gives a really wide but natural sound out of the box. From a mix standpoint it might just be my favourite of all time.. With that said it's also worth noting that the arrangement/balance of the dynamics plays a huge role when it comes to how cohesive everything sounds and Luke did a great job with that which made things much easier.
> 
> One thing to note is that it's really raw out of the box, and as a result it's quite mid-rangy, so in most cases you'll want to cut quite a bit of mids to get a cleaner sound. Probably moreso than when mixing libraries from other manufacturers. Nothing wrong with that, just something to be aware of.


Amazing composition and performance, amazing mixing as well! Would be great to know where you cut. The sound is so smooth, if you had to tame a lot of the midrange it would be interesting to know what you did and where. Way to go Joël!


----------



## Joël Dollié

Larry Hanshaw said:


> Amazing composition and performance, amazing mixing as well! Would be great to know where you cut. The sound is so smooth, if you had to tame a lot of the midrange it would be interesting to know what you did and where. Way to go Joël!



Thank you so much! I'm planning to make a mix deconstruction type mini course of this which will come out in the near future. Feel free to follow my youtube channel "Joël Dollié" on youtube to be notified if that's something you could be interested in checking out.


----------



## constaneum

i think


PhilipJohnston said:


> Playability question for the Spitfire Team: Can anyone confirm which instruments in BBCSO ship with Performance Legato scripting?
> 
> (Your Overview video opens with Violins 1 showcasing the scripting in action)
> 
> Is this ability to dynamically switch between legato and staccato within a single articulation implemented for all brass, string and woodwind instruments? If, not which ones missed the cut?



i think basically all the legato patches are ?


----------



## synthetic

Didn't they say there was going to be a dedicated video just on the legato technology? The patch seems very playable as they've shown it so far.


----------



## constaneum

synthetic said:


> Didn't they say there was going to be a dedicated video just on the legato technology? The patch seems very playable as they've shown it so far.



I'll say the legato seems good.


----------



## John R Wilson

synthetic said:


> Didn't they say there was going to be a dedicated video just on the legato technology? The patch seems very playable as they've shown it so far.




Yeah I believe Paul said that there will be a video dedicated to just legato across the whole library in the overview video.

I just checked out the new demo, the orchestra does sound lovely and the legato does sound very good in this new piece. As the legato patches were one of my main concerns for the library it would be really useful for a dedicated video on the legato patches across the library as I did feel that some of the legato strings did sound quite synthy in the strings video. However, this new demo piece does suggest that the libraries legato is going to be all good.


----------



## SupremeFist

Any news on how much RAM the official template takes up?


----------



## Zedcars

T-Minus...


Symphony in *One* Movement (*1*936) by Samual Barber. The title given in the printed score of the work is *First* Symphony (in *One* Movement) (Barber’s revised *1*943 score). The symphony is a condensed *one*-movement version of a classical four-movement symphony and is modelled after Sibelius' Symphony No. 7.

In the program notes for the 1937 New York premiere Barber explained:
"The form of my Symphony in *One* Movement is a synthetic treatment of the four-movement classical symphony. It is based on three themes of the initial Allegro non troppo, which retain throughout the work their fundamental character. The Allegro ma non troppo opens with the usual exposition of a main theme, a more lyrical second theme, and a closing theme. After a brief development of the three themes, instead of the customary recapitulation, the *first* theme in diminution forms the basis of a scherzo section (vivace). The second theme (oboe over muted strings) then appears in augmentation, in an extended Andante tranquillo. An intense crescendo introduces the finale, which is a short passacaglia based on the *first* theme (introduced by violoncelli and contrabassi), over which, together with figures from other themes, the closing theme is woven, thus serving as a recapitulation for the entire symphony."

Performed here by Yale Philharmonia in 20*1*4:





'We Come *1*' by Faithless (200*1*):




'Manipulated Living' from the Donnie Darko soundtrack (released 2002) written and performed by Michael Andrews. Donnie Darko received its premiere at the Sundance Film Festival on *January* *1*9, 200*1*, before receiving a limited theatrical release on October 26, 200*1*, by Flower Films. Due to the film's advertising featuring a crashing plane and the September 11 attacks that transpired a month before, the film was scarcely advertised:





Bonus video:
*1* Day of Nothing. Enjoy:






*1* is the atomic number of hydrogen.
Dimensionless quantities are also known as quantities of dimension *one*.
In number theory, *1* is the value of Legendre's constant, which was introduced in 1808 by Adrien-Marie Legendre in expressing the asymptotic behaviour of the prime-counting function. Legendre's constant was originally conjectured to be approximately *1*.08366, but was proven to equal exactly *1* in *1*899. But you knew that...
In the philosophy of Plotinus and a number of other neoplatonists, The *One* is the ultimate reality and source of all existence.


----------



## PerryD

One is the loneliest number...
If you haven't yet received the SSD you ordered! :/


----------



## erikradbo

So, WW walkthrough is out. Someone else definitely posted that somewhere here (on page 158482340 or something) but - in that case - here it is again:


----------



## redlester




----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


>


Do they still use that ridiculous faux-rave music for their news ident? I haven’t watched it in a long time.

Bill Bailey did a musical sketch about it a few years ago.


----------



## constaneum

the woodwinds sound pretty beautiful. the tones are nicely captured, i'll say.


----------



## NYC Composer

constaneum said:


> the woodwinds sound pretty beautiful. the tones are nicely captured, i'll say.


Do you think? Did the clarinet sound nice and woody to you, did the oboe have that sweet lyrical tone? Did you get a nice breathiness from the flute/s? I’m going to listen on a better system tomorrow.

I really wanted to be knocked out this time. Nothing sounds bad, some things sound very good (especially the shorts) but I’m not knocked out so far. Although this can be true of winds in general, at the higher ends I had a hard time distinguishing the instruments.

On the other hand, maybe I’ve forgotten what a real wind instrument sounds like. It’s been two years since I last got to hire a clarinetist.


----------



## Nemoy

Would love to hear some examples of strings runs and woodwinds runs for BBCSO. Any examples so far yet for those? Or someone who got their ssd already can upload a quick improv. Enjoy!


----------



## redlester

Nemoy said:


> Would love to hear some examples of strings runs and woodwinds runs for BBCSO. Any examples so far yet for those? Or someone who got their ssd already can upload a quick improv. Enjoy!



The SSD’s can’t be used until the product is released, tomorrow.


----------



## Nemoy

redlester said:


> The SSD’s can’t be used until the product is released, tomorrow.


Oh ok good to know. Thanks.


----------



## constaneum

NYC Composer said:


> Do you think? Did the clarinet sound nice and woody to you, did the oboe have that sweet lyrical tone? Did you get a nice breathiness from the flute/s? I’m going to listen on a better system tomorrow.
> 
> I really wanted to be knocked out this time. Nothing sounds bad, some things sound very good (especially the shorts) but I’m not knocked out so far. Although this can be true of winds in general, at the higher ends I had a hard time distinguishing the instruments.
> 
> On the other hand, maybe I’ve forgotten what a real wind instrument sounds like. It’s been two years since I last got to hire a clarinetist.



for me, it sounds better than Berlin WW Legacy....at least there's better sense of liveness in the winds. BWW Legacy is great but a bit dull at times.


----------



## constaneum

Nemoy said:


> Would love to hear some examples of strings runs and woodwinds runs for BBCSO. Any examples so far yet for those? Or someone who got their ssd already can upload a quick improv. Enjoy!



only piccolo and flutes can do run legatos as per mentioned in the articulation list. Strings only slurred and portamento.


----------



## Bluemount Score

constaneum said:


> only piccolo and flutes can do run legatos as per mentioned in the articulation list. Strings only slurred and portamento.


There may still be a workaround, or maybe in fact it is possible with the standard leagto patch to some degree. Maybe it works with the marcato patch, however I don't think you can play legato-marcato. It's just that for realistic runs, a fast attack and release time is crucial.


----------



## Øivind

Woho!











Very classy!


----------



## Nemoy

oivind_rosvold said:


> Woho!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very classy!


Lol, while your staring at the drive, just imagine your downloading it right now and it'll be done in about 24 hrs. Haha.


----------



## Nemoy

constaneum said:


> for me, it sounds better than Berlin WW Legacy....at least there's better sense of liveness in the winds. BWW Legacy is great but a bit dull at times.



Ohh a video doing a mock up on a score that many people would be familiar with comparing the OT woodwinds against the BBCSO woodwinds would be fantastic to watch. And great way to really hear the strengths and weaknesses between the two. Anyone kindly willing to show that would be so awesome...in the next few days.


----------



## constaneum

Nemoy said:


> Ohh a video doing a mock up on a score that many people would be familiar with comparing the OT woodwinds against the BBCSO woodwinds would be fantastic to watch. And great way to really hear the strengths and weaknesses between the two. Anyone kindly willing to show that would be so awesome...in the next few days.



for me, i ended using the BWW Exp B more than the main library. the main library's a must use for me is the 8va flute as well as the playable runs transitions patch.


----------



## Zedcars

oivind_rosvold said:


> Woho!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very classy!


Amazing that someone(s) hand wrote all those hundreds (thousands?) of cards.


----------



## bricop

It’s like Christmas Eve 😊


----------



## synkrotron

The British Broadcasting Corporation Symphonic Orchestra


I just wanted to write the whole thing, in full... Looks kinda majestic don't ya think?


----------



## NYC Composer

constaneum said:


> for me, it sounds better than Berlin WW Legacy....at least there's better sense of liveness in the winds. BWW Legacy is great but a bit dull at times.


Can’t comment on those, but I would be happy to be totally off base in this instance.


----------



## Ruffian Price

Here are AmorphousDiskMark results (averaged over four measurements) on a mid-2015 15" MBP:




The 4K random result might change slightly once the library is unpacked (SSDs are finicky like this) but it looks fine overall.



Zedcars said:


> Amazing that someone(s) hand wrote all those hundreds (thousands?) of cards.


They're printed out - there's no _round robin_ between the same letters. There are actually fonts that supply "variation" files for precisely this reason!


----------



## John R Wilson

After much deliberation I've just ended up pre-ordering it.


----------



## José Herring

redlester said:


> As if by magic, a legatos demo!



I dunno. Is it just me? I'm missing the legato connection in the glockenspiel.


----------



## ridgero

redlester said:


> As if by magic, a legatos demo!




I love the sound very much. Which Mic positions were used in this demo? The width & depth are amazing.

James Horner would have loved this composition.


----------



## synkrotron

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> After much deliberation I've just ended up pre-ordering it.



Well done


----------



## Zedcars

Ruffian Price said:


> They're printed out - there's no _round robin_ between the same letters. There are actually fonts that supply "variation" files for precisely this reason!


Are you sure these are printed? I could be wrong, but mine looks like it’s been written by hand - different ink from the rest of the card. I’ll have another look when I get home.


----------



## synkrotron

Just had a thought... Might have been mentioned elsewhere here...

If the library has already been received by Peeps who pre-ordered the SSD version, it seems a shame that those who could not afford the additional expense, who opted for the download, could not download the library beforehand in readiness for Activation Day.


----------



## Ruffian Price

Zedcars said:


> Are you sure these are printed? I could be wrong, but mine looks like it’s been written by hand - different ink from the rest of the card. I’ll have another look when I get home.








There's nothing wrong with that, of course! Hell, it's a premium font instead of "front page of calligraphy category on dafont" like everybody else does


----------



## Pianolando

I think the woodwinds sound beautiful (as have the other sections imo). Great players with great tone in a great room. The selection seems very generous and covers all the basics and more. The legato patches are wonders to me, nothing in Berlin strings, CSS or Cinewinds/Brass (which I usually work with) can pull that versatility off in a single patch. 

As some others, I feel the WW, and the strings as well don’t have a great dynamic range. For what I usually write I’m most concerned with p and pp missing (or at least it sounds like it to me). It is beautifully programmed so maybe it will work the way I want it to anyway. 

I believe I will buy this library and try to use it as a starting point for all sections, even though I hoped that it would be even more dynamic and expressive.


----------



## Zedcars

Ruffian Price said:


> There's nothing wrong with that, of course! Hell, it's a premium font instead of "front page of calligraphy category on dafont" like everybody else does


Fair enough. Had me fooled (not that hard really).


----------



## Hadrondrift

NYC Composer said:


> maybe I’ve forgotten what a real wind instrument sounds like.


For me, the woodwinds are the weak point of this library, judged by the available demos so far. I missed the specific distinct sound character especially of clarinet, flute and oboe. And I definitively missed one or two dynamic layers here. Not really bad, mind you. Great library overall.


----------



## I like music

NYC Composer said:


> Although this can be true of winds in general, at the higher ends I had a hard time distinguishing the instruments.



OK, so it isn't just me then (actually, not talking about BBCSO here, but in general). I'm not that experienced generally, so I wondered if my ears were just unable to distinguish high woods in some of the libraries that I own, or whether it was the libraries.


----------



## Bluemount Score

synkrotron said:


> Just had a thought... Might have been mentioned elsewhere here...
> 
> If the library has already been received by Peeps who pre-ordered the SSD version, it seems a shame that those who could not afford the additional expense, who opted for the download, could not download the library beforehand in readiness for Activation Day.


This made me thinking and I agree. It's not like Spitfire profited from selling those SSDs either, in fact Christian stated that there is even a slight loss for somehow.


----------



## redlester

synkrotron said:


> Just had a thought... Might have been mentioned elsewhere here...
> 
> If the library has already been received by Peeps who pre-ordered the SSD version, it seems a shame that those who could not afford the additional expense, who opted for the download, could not download the library beforehand in readiness for Activation Day.



Once a product goes “live”, if it’s being downloaded, for the Spitfire stand alone instruments the download and activation all happen as one process. It’s not a case of downloading it then activating it. 

If it were a Kontakt library those are downloaded and installed via the Spitfire app but then have to be activated separately using Native Access.


----------



## ridgero

synkrotron said:


> Just had a thought... Might have been mentioned elsewhere here...
> 
> If the library has already been received by Peeps who pre-ordered the SSD version, it seems a shame that those who could not afford the additional expense, who opted for the download, could not download the library beforehand in readiness for Activation Day.



Well, I understand your point, but is really a big deal?

You actually paid less for the library, so whats "a shame"? *You get the same library for less money and even on the same day!*

As soon as it has been released, you can download the library. The installer can not distinguish between advance purchase and purchase, so it does not offer a pre-download. Pre-download would be great for the SA installer as a future suggestion for improvement.


----------



## gussunkri

josejherring said:


> I dunno. Is it just me? I'm missing the legato connection in the glockenspiel.


It's just you.


----------



## synkrotron

ridgero said:


> but is really a big deal?



Not to me, no. I am not investing in the Spitfire Audio British Broadcasting Corporation Symphonic Orchestra library.

As I said, it was just a thought.


----------



## rottoy

redlester said:


> As if by magic, a legatos demo!


 That was absolutely wonderful. More Luke Olney demos from Spitfire!


----------



## Saxer

synkrotron said:


> If the library has already been received by Peeps who pre-ordered the SSD version, it seems a shame that those who could not afford the additional expense, who opted for the download, could not download the library beforehand in readiness for Activation Day.


I can imagine the immediate rant of those who can't activate the library directly after download. So no matter how you turn it: it's ok or not ok depending on your perspective.


----------



## redlester

Saxer said:


> I can imagine the immediate rant of those who can't activate the library directly after download. So no matter how you turn it: it's ok or not ok depending on your perspective.



Anyone downloading won't be able to download until release day, then when they do download it is activated during the same process. So there shouldn't be any ranting.


----------



## synkrotron

I don't see much ranting... 

Me and my thoughts... Should have kept me gob shut


----------



## cqd

I hope they'll sort out the keyswich situation with this library too..that they're either on the 88 keys, or moveable, and they'll be saved..

the keyswitches on HZ strings annoy me whenever I load it up..


----------



## oboemaroni

I've ordered to take advantage of the edu discount but won't be downloading yet as I want to hear more demos, have two weeks in which I can request a refund this way...


----------



## gussunkri

oboemaroni said:


> I've ordered to take advantage of the edu discount but won't be downloading yet as I want to hear more demos, have two weeks in which I can request a refund this way...


Clever!


----------



## Zero&One

Maybe of interest to some:
Brass 92GB
Perc 83GB
Strings 250GB
Woods 140GB

Love the package btw SA


----------



## Bluemount Score

oboemaroni said:


> I've ordered to take advantage of the edu discount but won't be downloading yet as I want to hear more demos, have two weeks in which I can request a refund this way...


Clever indeed, might do so as well. Nah screw it, I won't have the patience to wait even longer.


----------



## Bluemount Score

James H said:


> Maybe of interest to some:
> Brass 92GB
> Perc 83GB
> Strings 250GB
> Woods 140GB
> 
> Love the package btw SA


Interesting. Strings is the biggest of course, also due to the additional leaders. Percussion the smallest.
But why are the WWs so much bigger than Brass? I expected Brass to be bigger, considering my guess that more dynamic layers were recorded for them than for the WWs.


----------



## Alex Fraser

cqd said:


> I hope they'll sort out the keyswich situation with this library too..that they're either on the 88 keys, or moveable, and they'll be saved..
> 
> the keyswitches on HZ strings annoy me whenever I load it up..


Are you using Logic? Pop the key switches into an articulation map and you can move them around whilst composing.


----------



## Saxer

Bluemount Score said:


> But why are the WWs so much bigger than Brass?


More different instruments.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Saxer said:


> More different instruments.


Sure. Just checked and it's 13 woods compared to 10 brass instruments. Still a pretty big difference imo. And as said, I thought an additional dynamic layer for brass, which would be more necessary here than for woods or strings, should make up the difference.
Nevermind, you shouldn't grumple about every little thing. There will be sense to it I don't know about.


----------



## redlester

Bluemount Score said:


> Interesting. Strings is the biggest of course, also due to the additional leaders. Percussion the smallest.
> But why are the WWs so much bigger than Brass? I expected Brass to be bigger, considering my guess that more dynamic layers were recorded for them than for the WWs.



Just checked their other flagship versions:
Symphony Orchestra - woodwinds are slightly larger than brass.
Studio Orchestra Pro - brass slightly larger than woodwinds.

So that's no help at all!


----------



## Phil Harmony

Wow, this is really a lot of content, I guess this will work only if I buy the SSD in addition...

Anyway, this could be my orchestral to-go Library


----------



## redlester

Phil Harmony said:


> Wow, this is really a lot of content, I guess this will work only if I buy the SSD in addition...
> 
> Anyway, this could be my orchestral to-go Library



If you have existing suitable storage on your system you can buy it on a hard drive for much less than the SSD (you select it at checkout). It's not recommended to run it from the hard drive though as its just a 5,400rpm drive.


----------



## Will Wilson

I was going to pre-order but then after watching all the walkthroughs discovered these is no Kazoo patch, for that reason, I'm out.


----------



## gussunkri

I am hopeless. I said to myself that BBCSO would be the last library I bought in quite some time. Of course, yesterday I caved and bought Eric Whitacre with the 50% student discount. Hopeless...

However, I have a fast connection (ranging between 100 and 300 mbps), but I am only downloading Whitacre (the library, not the person) at around 30 mbps. I wonder, and hope, that this is not indicative of te download speeds one can expect for the BBCSO or I'll be downloading it for 1-2 weeks.


----------



## redlester




----------



## al_net77

Mbps or kbps?


----------



## Sovereign

gussunkri said:


> However, I have a fast connection (ranging between 100 and 300 kbps), but I am only downloading Whitacre (the library, not the person) at around 30 kbps. I wonder, and hope, that this is not indicative of te download speeds one can expect for the BBCSO or I'll be downloading it for 1-2 weeks.


Ouch? Fiber? I assume you mean Mbps. There are speedtests available to see how fast the connection is to the S3 Amazon servers. Have you tried those? Where are you located?


----------



## gussunkri

al_net77 said:


> Mbps or kbps?


Mbps... sorry. Will edit my post.


----------



## gussunkri

Sovereign said:


> Ouch? Fiber? I assume you mean Mbps. There are speedtests available to see how fast the connection is to the S3 Amazon servers. Have you tried those? Where are you located?


Yes, mbps! 

I am in Sweden. Will look for the speed tests. Are all Spitfire libraries streaming from the S3 Amazon servers, or only the BBCSO?


----------



## styledelk

I don't want to wait, but I think I'm going to have to wait. I picked the wrong time to start getting into Eurorack.


----------



## redlester

gussunkri said:


> downloading Whitacre (the library, not the person)



Don't go giving Spitfire ideas like this! You know what Christian is like, I can see it now:

_"The Spitfire-Star Trek Transporter library - download your very own musicians, download entire orchestra sections for use in your productions. Just transport them back when you're done!"_


----------



## styledelk

gussunkri said:


> Yes, mbps!
> 
> I am in Sweden. Will look for the speed tests. Are all Spitfire libraries streaming from the S3 Amazon servers, or only the BBCSO?



Typically all of them. I wonder if they are using an AWS region in your zone or not. In NY I have fiber that's advertised up to 700-900 megabit---ends up being closer to 400-500, but even then I get downloads from Spitfire at about 2-3 megabytes per second with bursts better than that.


----------



## AllanH

My Spitfire App had an update when I checked yesterday, but nothing "new" in the App to download  They are getting ready.


----------



## cqd

One Orchestra, One plugin, Two dynamic layers..

Ah no..but like, East west did the one orchestra one plugin ages ago..Too much of this seems like marketing spin..and for them to cheap out on the depth is disappointing..
I hope I'm wrong though..
I'll consider putting a Pro Tools template together for the page though..


----------



## Sovereign

styledelk said:


> Typically all of them. I wonder if they are using an AWS region in your zone or not. In NY I have fiber that's advertised up to 700-900 megabit---ends up being closer to 400-500, but even then I get downloads from Spitfire at about 2-3 megabytes per second with bursts better than that.


I really do hope that is not the case or all downloaders will be waiting for days for it to complete.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

Has anyone else had issues adding files to the SSD that came with the order? I figured that since there's a surplus of 404 GB of disk space, I would take advantage of it, but every time I attempt transferring anything, it automatically disconnects the drive, almost like a fail-safe mechanism. 

Is there a way around that?


----------



## redlester

cqd said:


> Too much of this seems like marketing spin..and for them to cheap out on the depth is disappointing..



They are selling products to customers at the end of the day, so it's entirely marketing spin if you look at it very cynically, but all I can say on that is there are different types of marketing spin, and Spitfire with the Labs products and the amount of customer engagement and encouragement they provide can be hugely positive, as well as bank account emptying. I wish all companies marketing spin was as inspiring as theirs.


----------



## Zero&One

MarcHedenberg said:


> Has anyone else had issues adding files to the SSD that came with the order?



Just tested 1GB folder and no issues. On Mac btw


----------



## Spitfire Team

Today, we launch THE PAGE!

The Page is a brand new concept centered on building a singular knowledge resource for our community. Please leave your thoughts in the comments section about the type of content you would like to see and that you would like to make!


----------



## christianhenson

Just thought I'd throw this into the mix.... comments very much welcomed:



The page is here: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/thepage

use #oneorchestra and we'll find you!


----------



## rudi

@christianhenson Inspiring! Thank you!


----------



## Michael Stibor

synkrotron said:


> Not to me, no. I am not investing in the Spitfire Audio British Broadcasting Corporation Symphonic Orchestra library.



What? You were telling me to buy it, and_ you're_ not buying it?


----------



## staypuft

Let me play devil's advocate here: #oneorchestra sounds like a great way to keep the Spitfire brand relevant while your followers do all the hard work. Oh! you created a webpage and will feature user content... cool but we can do that already on social media, so how about giving something concrete back? Real job opportunities at Spitfire? You and Paul sure need assistants? Industry contacts? Cash prizes?

The sharing aspect that you are suggesting already happens at ViControl, why should we redirect traffic to your website? I know the young inexperienced composers are craving for attention and will do anything to get this false sense of validation, I even saw someone on your channel saying he feels like ``catching somewhat of a revolution early on´´ his words not mine.

I'm not suggesting you are deliberately taking advantage of composers with a dream but I really want to know what else other than a blank page Spitfire can provide for them.


----------



## widekeys

staypuft said:


> Let me play devil's advocate here: #oneorchestra sounds like a great way to keep the Spitfire brand relevant while your followers do all the hard work. Oh! you created a webpage and will feature user content... cool but we can do that already on social media, so how about giving something concrete back? Real job opportunities at Spitfire? You and Paul sure need assistants? Industry contacts? Cash prizes?
> 
> The sharing aspect that you are suggesting already happens at ViControl, why should we redirect traffic to your website? I know the young inexperienced composers are craving for attention and will do anything to get this false sense of validation, I even saw someone on your channel saying he feels like ``catching somewhat of a revolution early on´´ his words not mine.
> 
> I'm not suggesting you are deliberately taking advantage of composers with a dream but I really want to know what else other than a blank page Spitfire can provide for them.


I thought it was a good idea, if it is going to be curated by the spitfire team.


----------



## Tilt & Flow

staypuft said:


> Let me play devil's advocate here: #oneorchestra sounds like a great way to keep the Spitfire brand relevant while your followers do all the hard work. Oh! you created a webpage and will feature user content... cool but we can do that already on social media, so how about giving something concrete back? Real job opportunities at Spitfire? You and Paul sure need assistants? Industry contacts? Cash prizes?
> 
> The sharing aspect that you are suggesting already happens at ViControl, why should we redirect traffic to your website? I know the young inexperienced composers are craving for attention and will do anything to get this false sense of validation, I even saw someone on your channel saying he feels like ``catching somewhat of a revolution early on´´ his words not mine.
> 
> I'm not suggesting you are deliberately taking advantage of composers with a dream but I really want to know what else other than a blank page Spitfire can provide for them.


I don't understand the negativity here. At the very least you are suggesting Christian and Paul (Spitfire, et al.) are insincere and using this platform to increase market share. Did you even watch the video? 

I am excited and intrigued by this development! Why not wait and see (and contribute!) before starting to criticize?


----------



## Zedcars

staypuft said:


> Let me play devil's advocate here: #oneorchestra sounds like a great way to keep the Spitfire brand relevant while your followers do all the hard work. Oh! you created a webpage and will feature user content... cool but we can do that already on social media, so how about giving something concrete back? Real job opportunities at Spitfire? You and Paul sure need assistants? Industry contacts? Cash prizes?
> 
> The sharing aspect that you are suggesting already happens at ViControl, why should we redirect traffic to your website? I know the young inexperienced composers are craving for attention and will do anything to get this false sense of validation, I even saw someone on your channel saying he feels like ``catching somewhat of a revolution early on´´ his words not mine.
> 
> I'm not suggesting you are deliberately taking advantage of composers with a dream but I really want to know what else other than a blank page Spitfire can provide for them.


Seems to me almost everything on the net is generated by people making decisions. There are lots of other websites around that are a sounding board and a way for musicians to communicate and collaborate. I see no harm in creating a new space that could be a great hub for user generated content with a more centralised way of sharing. If people want to go there and share 'whatever' or hang out then why not? It's up to the individual. I see no evil coercing going on.

Things ebb and flow. There was once a time when this website was new and started drawing people away from other areas that they might otherwise have been visiting.

Personally I'm not a massive social network (usual suspects) fan/user. Facebook's ethos and moral compass is pretty eff-ed up so I left that 4 years ago and doubt I'd return.

"...why should we redirect traffic to your website". Traffic=people=using their own decision making to go where they would like and where is a useful or pleasurable or educational place to be. It's not like it's The Page vs VI-C match to the death here (although it might make for a fun WWF showdown!). Surely both can coexist happily.

I think at the moment the subject(s) of the content is fluid. If they went ahead and opened up a new virgin forum with no feedback I'm not sure how well it would do. Always better to make people feel a part of it from the outset.


----------



## SonsofRest

Whoops...






Maybe I should have taken today off work...


----------



## Zedcars

SonsofRest said:


> Whoops...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I should have taken today off work...


Bummer. :(


----------



## SonsofRest

Zedcars said:


> Bummer. :(



Eh, it's alright, it just means I have to go pick it up from the post office tomorrow, unless they lose it (which has happened).


----------



## Zedcars

SonsofRest said:


> Eh, it's alright, it just means I have to go pick it up from the post office tomorrow, unless they lose it (which has happened).


Hopefully you'll get it ok and may even be before the library is activated by HQ.


----------



## synkrotron

mikefrommontreal said:


> What? You were telling me to buy it, and_ you're_ not buying it?



Yeah, well, I am able to make a decision... Unlike some here


----------



## synkrotron

staypuft said:


> young inexperienced composers



what about the old crusty ones?


----------



## redlester

SonsofRest said:


> Whoops...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I should have taken today off work...



Ha ha me too. Although I already knew that would happen. 

I doubt I will get to install mine until Friday night, so I won’t be winning Alex’s box of Quality Street.


----------



## Alex Fraser

staypuft said:


> Let me play devil's advocate here: #oneorchestra sounds like a great way to keep the Spitfire brand relevant while your followers do all the hard work. Oh! you created a webpage and will feature user content... cool but we can do that already on social media, so how about giving something concrete back? Real job opportunities at Spitfire? You and Paul sure need assistants? Industry contacts? Cash prizes?
> 
> The sharing aspect that you are suggesting already happens at ViControl, why should we redirect traffic to your website? I know the young inexperienced composers are craving for attention and will do anything to get this false sense of validation, I even saw someone on your channel saying he feels like ``catching somewhat of a revolution early on´´ his words not mine.
> 
> I'm not suggesting you are deliberately taking advantage of composers with a dream but I really want to know what else other than a blank page Spitfire can provide for them.


I'm not sure there *is* a concrete plan - that's why Spitfire are posing the question. Maybe some of the things you listed might actually happen..

Note that PianoBook started as a singular idea to share some pianos but is starting to grow into something else. I'm sure Spitfire _is_ looking to promote the BBCSO product with the platform somehow, but at this early stage they can't possibly have an ROI worked out. I looks like an experiment to me rather than a hard nosed marketing drive.


----------



## redlester

staypuft said:


> Oh! you created a webpage and will feature user content... cool but we can do that already on social media, so how about giving something concrete back?



Isn't people being encouraged to specify the content of tutorials they would like to see something concrete? Am not aware of many other companies doing that.


----------



## CT

Luke's demo made me tear up. I like dogs....


----------



## Sovereign

miket said:


> Luke's demo made me tear up. I like dogs....


Dogs? It was about cats for sure.


----------



## CT

Cats can be great, but dogs seem to have a few more dynamic layers that I miss with cats.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

I guess I can understand the cynicism, as someone who currently works in a marketing department, but I would pose this question as a devil's devil's advocate: what downside is there to contributing to and consuming content that spawns out of 'the page'? I don't think anyone's blind to that it's a devious way for Spitfire to increase their visibility and engagement from customers. It's just a win-win for both sides, really. If you don't find it useful, you've always got multiple other avenues of learning from other composers. If anything, I wish more companies were as focussed on nurturing a community alongside their customers as Spitfire.

Every company is out to get your money, but intention matters. If the Spitfire team aren't *actually* sincere about their intent with these kinds of initiatives, then they're at least doing a fine job of selling me on their authenticity, and that's gotta count for something.


----------



## Noeticus

Morality and capitalism can co-exist.


----------



## synkrotron

MarcHedenberg said:


> then they're at least doing a fine job of selling me on their authenticity



Absolutely... I am totally sold on Christian's and Paul's enthusiasm with regards to Spitfire Audio and what it is doing.


----------



## Zero&One

staypuft said:


> so how about giving something concrete back? Real job opportunities at Spitfire? You and Paul sure need assistants? Industry contacts? Cash prizes?



Hash tag the ideas, that's what they are asking for. Can't see the issue?


----------



## redlester

miket said:


> Cats can be great, but dogs seem to have a few more dynamic layers that I miss with cats.



The crucial thing though, dogs don’t purr!


----------



## CT

I'll second the jobs thing. I've been bitten by the "work at Spitfire" bug of late. 



redlester said:


> The crucial thing though, dogs don’t purr!



Purring is ok with enough round robins.


----------



## PerryD

Knowledge is power. Power directed at a noble (or at least peaceful) pursuit can't be all that bad. Anything that stimulates good music is welcomed by me. If Spitfire profits from it, great. They can move forward with even grander projects. I am getting up in years...Ha! I started playing trumpet in the mid 1960's. I've done music for a living and as a hobby. I guess it's called a "passion", as I've truly enjoyed it either way. I learn something every day. A new source for learning / sharing? Bring it.


----------



## Craig Sharmat

I'm on the fence, the contrabass Tuba was warm and fat, I thought the low end instruments in general sounded quite good (the whole thing sounds really good but especially the low end). I A/B'd against my other libs and BBC won in that area. There are lots of unexpected instruments like the contrabassoon, bass clarinet, contrabass tuba, full woodwind sections besides just the singular woodwinds, first chairs in strings...etc. The many mic positions are an asset or a curse depending on how you like to work (normally I don't like a ton but I was hearing interesting detail in the walk throughs). All of this makes the library a bargain, especially if one does not have a lot of this stuff already which of course many of us do.

Next...Christian Henson is a marvelous orator and Spitfire has created many beautiful artistic libraries over the yrs of which I happily own many but...

The one orchestra thing I find to be a bit of a turnoff. When I started making custom libraries yrs ago with TJ, Marten, Troels, Simon (though he never became a developer), Andrew K (even Andy Blaney did some editing) and the like there was a joy in creating something that no one else had and even though those libraries are now antiquated they don't sound like everyone else because just simply they are different (so i still use them mostly because of that and a few secret articulations). To have a homogenous melting pot orchestra is to me the antithesis of being a creative modern musician. If SF could open up the architecture and allow 3rd parties in to create content or abuse their content with maybe even have a commission based selling of 3rd party products or roll your own, then it might open it up to being less homogenous.

On a final note In the end though it is really can a library pull off what you hear in your head or inspire you and that is the bottom line.


----------



## redlester

Craig Sharmat said:


> On a final note In the end though it is really can a library pull off what you hear in your head or inspire you and that is the bottom line.



Amen to that. 

I don’t interpret the “one orchestra” line as meaning their aim is for everything to sound the same, I think the intention is more about creating a focal point to kick ideas off and inspire. I would hope it’s about a lot more than simply this one library.


----------



## gtrwll

miket said:


> Cats can be great, but dogs seem to have a few more dynamic layers that I miss with cats.



It was surely about reindeers, they have more sleigh bells.

(Sorry...)

Ahem, it was indeed a fine demo. TBH the woodwinds left me with a few questions, but this piece shows how the library works with this kind of material, which is close to what I'll be doing myself. And it seems to work great.


----------



## staypuft

Guys I have nothing against Spitfire, I use their libraries every day in my work. They seem to be genuinely nice blokes.

Not picking sides but if I had to, I'd be on YOUR side. That was my point. Spitfire is in a position to make an impact on your career. Don't be afraid to ask for more than "exposition" which always ends up in exploitation and no compensation, even if that is not their intention. I believe they are well-intended but they can do much more. Christian asked and I'm giving my sincere opinion.

If this is your hobby sure go ahead and join the party, have fun, use your free time creating content for the community. But for those in for the long haul, this is a great chance to gain more tan "exposition" on a webpage.

Here's another idea: have a BBCSO contest where the winner will co-write a cue or episode with Christian or Paul in one of their TV shows. THAT is making an impact and giving real opportunities to new talents.

If you still think I'm hating.... one day, when you are selling lunch to buy dinner, you will remember old crusty me trying to help and being shoved away. Happened to me and I was too stubborn to realize until it was too late.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

On a sort of related note . Does anyone have any idea of the kind of numbers these relatively expensive, but still obtainable big libraries sell over , say a first year ? Are we talking hundreds, thousands, or maybe even just tens in very niche product cases. 

All sample makers would have to factor how many they expect to sell before even starting a project ,, to see if it is viable. I am genuinely interested ; So on topic, how many "licenses" of say SF BBC SO, do you think they will or expect to sell in the first year or two ?


----------



## Loïc D

Wild guess, I’d say tens of thousands.
But I also wondered and it seems to be the industry’s best secret.


----------



## redlester

staypuft said:


> Guys I have nothing against Spitfire, I use their libraries every day in my work. They seem to be genuinely nice blokes.
> 
> Not picking sides but if I had to, I'd be on YOUR side. That was my point. Spitfire is in a position to make an impact on your career. Don't be afraid to ask for more than "exposition" which always ends up in exploitation and no compensation, even if that is not their intention. I believe they are well-intended but they can do much more. Christian asked and I'm giving my sincere opinion.
> 
> If this is your hobby sure go ahead and join the party, have fun, use your free time creating content for the community. But for those in for the long haul, this is a great chance to gain more tan "exposition" on a webpage.
> 
> Here's another idea: have a BBCSO contest where the winner will co-write a cue or episode with Christian or Paul in one of their TV shows. THAT is making an impact and giving real opportunities to new talents.
> 
> If you still think I'm hating.... one day, when you are selling lunch to buy dinner, you will remember old crusty me trying to help and being shoved away. Happened to me and I was too stubborn to realize until it was too late.



Heartfelt words and clearly sincere. As a hobbyist who craves inspiration and advice, with no intention of ever creating anything for commercial purposes, I have very different feelings. 

Those who do have or desire a career will have to make up their own minds, but I love the fact we can discuss and have different opinions like rational adults, in times like this where the world seems to be lacking in such.


----------



## Jdiggity1

LowweeK said:


> Wild guess, I’d say tens of thousands.


Wild indeed!


----------



## Karma

Sovereign said:


> Dogs? It was about cats for sure.


Ha! I will say that I am a dog person so... 

On another note thank you for all the kind comments on the demo. I just got a moment to read through a bunch of them all now and I'm thrilled to see you guys enjoyed it. I was especially honoured by the Horner comment, as that was very much a big inspiration in the writing, so thanks! 

Someone asked about mics, so here you go:

Strings (sections layered with leaders): Mix 1 + Spill
Woodwinds: Tree and Mids + Spill
Brass: Outriggers, Tree, Sides + Spill
Mallet Perc: Tree with a tad Close + Spill
Other Perc: Tree + Spill


----------



## jaketanner

staypuft said:


> Let me play devil's advocate here: #oneorchestra sounds like a great way to keep the Spitfire brand relevant while your followers do all the hard work. Oh! you created a webpage and will feature user content... cool but we can do that already on social media, so how about giving something concrete back? Real job opportunities at Spitfire? You and Paul sure need assistants? Industry contacts? Cash prizes?
> 
> The sharing aspect that you are suggesting already happens at ViControl, why should we redirect traffic to your website? I know the young inexperienced composers are craving for attention and will do anything to get this false sense of validation, I even saw someone on your channel saying he feels like ``catching somewhat of a revolution early on´´ his words not mine.
> 
> I'm not suggesting you are deliberately taking advantage of composers with a dream but I really want to know what else other than a blank page Spitfire can provide for them.


I asked a similar question on the youtube channel...not really sure what this page really is about...but I for one said I would like to see how to get work, best approaches, where to find it..etc, etc...and also that we all have places similar to share ideas already...but perhaps we are missing the concept, and if so, then I would like some further explanations...just a bit confused I guess. And also, if it purely revolves around the BBC SO, or is this a general SF library discussion? Time will tell I guess.


----------



## José Herring

Craig Sharmat said:


> I'm on the fence, the contrabass Tuba was warm and fat, I thought the low end instruments in general sounded quite good (the whole thing sounds really good but especially the low end). I A/B'd against my other libs and BBC won in that area. There are lots of unexpected instruments like the contrabassoon, bass clarinet, contrabass tuba, full woodwind sections besides just the singular woodwinds, first chairs in strings...etc. The many mic positions are an asset or a curse depending on how you like to work (normally I don't like a ton but I was hearing interesting detail in the walk throughs). All of this makes the library a bargain, especially if one does not have a lot of this stuff already which of course many of us do.
> 
> Next...Christian Henson is a marvelous orator and Spitfire has created many beautiful artistic libraries over the yrs of which I happily own many but...
> 
> The one orchestra thing I find to be a bit of a turnoff. When I started making custom libraries yrs ago with TJ, Marten, Troels, Simon (though he never became a developer), Andrew K (even Andy Blaney did some editing) and the like there was a joy in creating something that no one else had and even though those libraries are now antiquated they don't sound like everyone else because just simply they are different (so i still use them mostly because of that and a few secret articulations). To have a homogenous melting pot orchestra is to me the antithesis of being a creative modern musician. If SF could open up the architecture and allow 3rd parties in to create content or abuse their content with maybe even have a commission based selling of 3rd party products or roll your own, then it might open it up to being less homogenous.
> 
> On a final note In the end though it is really can a library pull off what you hear in your head or inspire you and that is the bottom line.


As always an in depth and informative post Craig.

Really insightful post Craig.

Yes I do notice that even within the same piece I'm grabbing at different libraries because that library is better able to express what I'm hearing at the time.

I also notice though that there are so many libraries that are so distinct in sound that many people are having trouble blending them all in. So the idea of having a base and then augmenting that base with different libraries is definitely a plus point.

I do notice that this library is having a bit of trouble with the lower dynamics. The legato demo posted as good as it is, still is struggling down in the lower dynamic ranges to tame that beast of sound and section sizes. I truth for that style of writing I would start with strings that were lower in number.

I see this library as a new direction for Spitfire. They can build upon it. BBCSO divisi sections, special articulations, playing techniques, ect. That's what I'd like to see. They have the large orchestra bread and butter covered. Now let's get down to getting some diversity going with the BBCSO.

I like your idea of Spitfire partnering with 3rd party developers who can add to this library, but I'd like to see them add to it by recording it in the same room. For me the idea of having things in the same room is appealing.

But you make a good point that hits home for me. I've got so much of the large orchestra that perhaps I should be looking for that which I can't do with my template rather than looking at yet another bread and butter library no matter how good it is.

I am so glad you posted. Took a break from samples to do concert music for a few years. In the end I found that concert music had it own pitfalls and that I missed being the sole master and commander of my at home studio. So when I came back to samples earlier this year I realized that the reason I got frustrated was that my template didn't have enough of a variety of palette to express all of my ideas. Also, many of the libraries weren't programmed in a way that was musical to me. So I started fixing those issues. Pull out older libraries, reprogramming, ect. Has made a world of difference. Now augmenting with boutique libraries that cover stuff the "full package" libraries aren't covering. 

Seem to be getting into long rambling post these days. It's what happens to me when I'm going through a major shift in thought. If you've made it this far, thanks again.


----------



## ed buller

anyone having problems with the app. It says "something wrong" no internet ??

best

ed


----------



## widekeys

ed buller said:


> anyone having problems with the app. It says "something wrong" no internet ??
> 
> best
> 
> ed


I do not have any problems using it.


----------



## synkrotron

ed buller said:


> anyone having problems with the app. It says "something wrong" no internet ??



All okay at my end Ed


----------



## Denkii

SpitfireSupport said:


> Sorry, I wasn't clear. Yes it comes inside a Spitfire branded enclosure which has a USB C (female) connector on it and a USB C to USB A cable comes with it.


I may be blind but I cannot find the cable that was supposed to come with the hard drive. Can someone enlighten me?

Yupp, pretty sure it's just the black wrap and the grey box with a card and the SSD. :(
There is space underneath the drive but that space is empty. I don't have a USB-C cable and o won't be able to get one before the weekend


----------



## ed buller

synkrotron said:


> All okay at my end Ed


re-install works fine

e


----------



## synkrotron

ed buller said:


> re-install works fine


----------



## synkrotron

Denkii said:


> won't be able to get one before the weekend



Oh dear... That is bad news. Finger crossed that you get sorted as soon as possible


----------



## robgb

erikradbo said:


> So, WW walkthrough is out. Someone else definitely posted that somewhere here (on page 158482340 or something) but - in that case - here it is again:



Maybe it's just me, but I don't think these woodwinds sound that great. Maybe the weak point of the library?


----------



## Billy Palmer

MarcHedenberg said:


> Has anyone else had issues adding files to the SSD that came with the order? I figured that since there's a surplus of 404 GB of disk space, I would take advantage of it, but every time I attempt transferring anything, it automatically disconnects the drive, almost like a fail-safe mechanism.
> 
> Is there a way around that?



Anyone found anything on this? ^^

Also, I'd love the option to download just the main mic mixes!


----------



## synkrotron

William Palmer said:


> Anyone found anything on this?



I was wondering if it could be a "read only" flag in the disc properties, but then I thought, no, don't be daft, can't be that...


----------



## synkrotron

robgb said:


> Maybe it's just me



Possibly, Rob... I suppose it could well depend on your own expectations and what you want to do with them. And I don't think you are alone here. But there are also many who are happy, so, year, could be like I said.


----------



## Andrew0568

Just read this article by Luke and how he uses different mics: 








Approaching Microphone Mixes in the SSO


When used effectively, microphone balance can be useful when it comes to adding depth and focus to your compositions. In this article we'll be looking into how you can combine some of these microph...




spitfireaudio.zendesk.com





Something similar for BBCSO would be _fantastic_


----------



## bricop

Did we find out what time download begins? It’s like waiting on Santa 😊


----------



## synkrotron

bricop said:


> Did we find out what time download begins? It’s like waiting on Santa 😊



Is there anyone here from Australia?


----------



## synkrotron

Time in Australia


Australia time now. Australia time zones and time zone map with current time in each state.




www.timeanddate.com


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

robgb said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I don't think these woodwinds sound that great. Maybe the weak point of the library?



All personal preference I guess. It's exactly what I've been after, especially those piccolo's.


----------



## ridgero

Karma said:


> Ha! I will say that I am a dog person so...
> 
> On another note thank you for all the kind comments on the demo. I just got a moment to read through a bunch of them all now and I'm thrilled to see you guys enjoyed it. I was especially honoured by the Horner comment, as that was very much a big inspiration in the writing, so thanks!
> 
> Someone asked about mics, so here you go:
> 
> Strings (sections layered with leaders): Mix 1 + Spill
> Woodwinds: Tree and Mids + Spill
> Brass: Outriggers, Tree, Sides + Spill
> Mallet Perc: Tree with a tad Close + Spill
> Other Perc: Tree + Spill



That was me, thanks alot!!!


----------



## Piano & Strings

I'm not sure if this has been posted already (too much thread to catch up on), but the BBC SO did a live concert at Maida Vale today and it can be streamed in US too. 2.5hrs and includes:

1 Anna Clyne - Abstractions
2 Gustav Mahler - Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen
3 Maurice Ravel - Violin Sonata in G major
4 Benjamin Britten - Les Illuminations
5 Peter Ilyich Tchaikovksy - Francesca da Rimini
6 Benjamin Britten - Rejoice in the Lamb
7 Benjamin Britten - Courtly Dances from Gloriana

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0009kgy


----------



## PerryD

Still no SSD here in Georgia (US). Without any shipping notification, tracking number or even knowing what carrier was used, I'm not sure who to contact, aside from Spitfire, if it doesn't show up by tomorrow. I ordered in late September.


----------



## Saxer

Karma said:


> Ha! I will say that I am a dog person so...
> 
> On another note thank you for all the kind comments on the demo. I just got a moment to read through a bunch of them all now and I'm thrilled to see you guys enjoyed it. I was especially honoured by the Horner comment, as that was very much a big inspiration in the writing, so thanks!
> 
> Someone asked about mics, so here you go:
> 
> Strings (sections layered with leaders): Mix 1 + Spill
> Woodwinds: Tree and Mids + Spill
> Brass: Outriggers, Tree, Sides + Spill
> Mallet Perc: Tree with a tad Close + Spill
> Other Perc: Tree + Spill


Thanks for your infos, that‘s very interesting. How about system recources? Did you use a slave machine or one computer only? How much RAM in use for all the mics? And yes, beautiful demo 😊


----------



## Bluemount Score

Wolfie2112 said:


> All personal preference I guess. It's exactly what I've been after, especially those piccolo's.


The piccolo was my favorite as well. Lovely little thing. And one of the biggest gaps my sample collection had before BBCSO.


----------



## synthetic

If any fellow lowly downloaders have a day job, and want to check on your progress on your home computer, I just discovered Chrome has a remote desktop app that tunnels through a browser connection. Works through your Google ID and a phone app. I’ll probably uninstall once I have this download but it’s handy for this week.


----------



## synthetic

Found a good BBC film music recording. Great sound and great writing/orchestration. 

https://music.apple.com/us/album/gerard-schurmann-film-music/1469606866


The “Prison Revolt” cue is fun.


----------



## Michael Stibor

robgb said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I don't think these woodwinds sound that great. Maybe the weak point of the library?


It's not just you. The long notes in particular.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

I am sure when I messaged spitfire a while back they intend to go live on Thursday , at 5pm time UK- don’t quote me on that but I am sure that was the just.

So those of you anxiously refreshing your browser should probably wait until tomoroww. If it goes live early sure this place will light up like a Xmas tree .

Also I really do feel that spitfire have recorded the Piano with BBC SO far far , Far too quiet


----------



## Karma

Saxer said:


> Thanks for your infos, that‘s very interesting. How about system recources? Did you use a slave machine or one computer only? How much RAM in use for all the mics? And yes, beautiful demo 😊


One computer, i7 8700k with 64GB of RAM.

Here you go, fully loaded with all mics:


----------



## Zero&One

PerryD said:


> Still no SSD here in Georgia (US). Without any shipping notification, tracking number or even knowing what carrier was used, I'm not sure who to contact, aside from Spitfire, if it doesn't show up by tomorrow. I ordered in late September.



Sorry to hear, I know it sounds obvious and maybe insulting (sorry if it does)... but are your details correct on the site?
I would drop SA an email asap


----------



## Tilt & Flow

PerryD said:


> Still no SSD here in Georgia (US). Without any shipping notification, tracking number or even knowing what carrier was used, I'm not sure who to contact, aside from Spitfire, if it doesn't show up by tomorrow. I ordered in late September.


I contacted Spitfire using the chat and got a tracking number. SSD was delivered today. Phew.


----------



## Saxer

Karma said:


> One computer, i7 8700k with 64GB of RAM.
> 
> Here you go, fully loaded with all mics:


That looks great! Thank you!


----------



## Noeticus

And now....


----------



## MarcusMaximus

Can someone tell me what page that demo is on, or post a link? Don’t want to trawl through 200+ pages! Thanks.


----------



## synkrotron

Paul Jelfs said:


> Also I really do feel that spitfire have recorded the Piano with BBC SO far far , Far too quiet


 
Well, turn it up to eleven then


----------



## cqd

5 o clock?...Nooo..I've just installed google remote desktop..If I start it at 9ish in the morning it should be done when I get home from work..


----------



## Zedcars

1 minute to the big day......!!!!





__





Free Online Countdown Timer for Christmas, vacation and other events







www.arewethere.yt


----------



## Zero&One

Launch!


----------



## Zedcars

No fireworks? Canons? Dancing girls and marching band???


----------



## Zero&One

I'm surprised to see it in the App though, too late to make a noise now


----------



## Zedcars

James H said:


> I'm surprised to see it in the App though, too late to make a noise now


What??? It’s ready to go????!!!

OMFG...I’m in bed now though!


----------



## Zero&One

I wish it was April :D


----------



## Zedcars

James H said:


> I wish it was April :D


Are you yanking my chain man?


----------



## Zero&One

Zedcars said:


> Are you yanking my chain man?



hahaha yeah
You can sleep safe 👍


----------



## Zedcars

James H said:


> hahaha yeah
> You can sleep safe 👍


Oh god, I nearly had a flipping heart attack! Was about to run into my studio in my underpants to make a sleigh bell track. Then the Quality Street would be all mine! Mwahahahahaaaa! 👿


----------



## Zedcars

(Too much info?  )


----------



## Zero&One

Zedcars said:


> Oh god, I nearly had a flipping heart attack! Was about to run into my studio in my underpants to make a sleigh bell track. Then the Quality Street would be all mine! Mwahahahahaaaa! 👿



 I was just going to say, I couldn't let you creep into the studio in your underpants with blood shot eyes. Clicking refresh


----------



## Zedcars

James H said:


> I was just going to say, I couldn't let you creep into the studio in your underpants with blood shot eyes. Clicking refresh


Um, how can you see my bloodshot eyes? 😱


----------



## Geoff Grace

I clicked on the video below just now and realized that it displays the words, "PHONY ORCH," at the 22 second mark:



It reminded me that, yes, all sampled orchestras are indeed phony. Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure that's _not_ the message Spitfire intended to drive home.  

Seriously though, wishing Spitfire the best of luck with community building and the product launch.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Nemoy

So how many hours away are we? What timezone is the release set at? @Daniel James , when will you be doing the live stream for BBCSO? And anyone else doing a livestream with the ssd they received the moment this is released? Appreciate any and all videos. Thanks. And enjoy, everyone!


----------



## CT

Looking forward to living vicariously through you early adopters.


----------



## Nemoy

miket said:


> Looking forward to living vicariously through you early adopters.


I'm already set on early adopting. Would just like to watch some more videos from others who got the ssd already because its going to take me soo long sitting around trying to download this thing. Probably a few days to finish the download. Lol


----------



## NoamL

PerryD said:


> Knowledge is power. Power directed at a noble (or at least peaceful) pursuit can't be all that bad. Anything that stimulates good music is welcomed by me. If Spitfire profits from it, great. They can move forward with even grander projects. I am getting up in years...Ha! I started playing trumpet in the mid 1960's. I've done music for a living and as a hobby. I guess it's called a "passion", as I've truly enjoyed it either way. I learn something every day. A new source for learning / sharing? Bring it.



Exactly. People share free knowledge here all the time. Why not one knowledgebase for people who use Spitfire's new flagship product. Makes sense. Thumbs up.



Craig Sharmat said:


> The one orchestra thing I find to be a bit of a turnoff... To have a homogenous melting pot orchestra is to me the antithesis of being a creative modern musician.



I'm not sure what you mean Craig. So many great scores have been written with just the "standard layout" orchestra!


----------



## Alex Fraser

miket said:


> Looking forward to living vicariously through you early adopters.


Come join me on the sofa then. I have popcorn.


----------



## CT

Alex Fraser said:


> Come join me on the sofa then. I have popcorn.



No chocolates?


----------



## Lady Gaia

Woot! My SSD arrived. Mind you, it’s blank. I don’t actually have a lot of time to dive in right away without pushing aside other priorities so I’m holding off for more impressions and keeping an eye on the discount windows before making a final decision. I just wanted to make sure I had the space available to enable an impulse purchase, and went with 2TB for some future proofing.


----------



## Alex Fraser

miket said:


> No chocolates?


You stole all the orange cremes last time. We’re not having that argument again..


----------



## Daniel James

Nemoy said:


> So how many hours away are we? What timezone is the release set at? @Daniel James , when will you be doing the live stream for BBCSO? And anyone else doing a livestream with the ssd they received the moment this is released? Appreciate any and all videos. Thanks. And enjoy, everyone!



Still waiting for my copy. If all goes well I will be streaming Saturday at 12 noon PT.

-DJ


----------



## erica-grace

Daniel James said:


> Still waiting for my copy. If all goes well I will be streaming Saturday at 12 noon PT.



And how long is that going to be? Like, 3 days? 

Looking forward to it!


----------



## Fleer

Night of the Proms coming up!


----------



## Nemoy

Daniel James said:


> Still waiting for my copy. If all goes well I will be streaming Saturday at 12 noon PT.
> 
> -DJ


Not ta'dday or ta'marrow??? OMG!! Really? Lol...Ok thanks Daniel. I was hoping Daniel would say he'd begin live streaming the first minute he gets it from the mail for a first look walk-through. Hahah!


----------



## zolhof

For anyone wondering when the activation emails will start rolling out, a word from your friendly Spitfire support:

"Hi there, the release will be staggered throughout the day, and they will be processed in the order they were placed. You'll receive email notification on Thursday when the download is ready if you have pre-ordered. If you ordered on an SSD you'll also receive email notification when it is added to your account and ready to install.

The orders are processed in the order that the pre-orders were placed and staggered over a number of hours during the day. This will be early in the morning UK time so if you are US based you will likely wake up to the order ready on your account."


----------



## Nemoy

zolhof said:


> The orders are processed in the order that the pre-orders were placed and staggered over a number of hours during the day. This will be early in the morning UK time so if you are US based you will likely wake up to the order ready on your account."



Why would they assume that many of us, and especially those who work professionally actually sleep. Many people in the US are actually quite sleep deprived. Lol!!


----------



## Virtuoso

Damn - I was hoping I could go to bed leaving it downloading and get in before the rush! I have a Gigabit line so _theoretically_ it could download in just 90 minutes! (though it will probably take 2 weeks, based on previous Spitfire download speeds...)


----------



## Portland

Well, goodnight from the US. I hope the library is just as fantastic as we hope! I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts. Buenas noches.

(edit: "hope" twice in one sentence? Must be getting tired. Long day. )


----------



## bricop

Woke up to discover Santa doesn’t deliver at nighttime anymore. Looks like he’s on day shift so we’ll have to be patient a little bit longer.


----------



## gtrwll

bricop said:


> Woke up to discover Santa doesn’t deliver at nighttime anymore. Looks like he’s on day shift so we’ll have to be patient a little bit longer.



I was writing another sleigh bell joke, but refrained myself.


----------



## redlester

The HDD’s are presented just as smartly as the SSD’s


----------



## synkrotron

08:36 here and BBC SO is still on "pre-order"

SA must have to hand crank the website updates and they're not up yet


----------



## redlester

synkrotron said:


> 08:36 here and BBC SO is still on "pre-order"
> 
> SA must have to hand crank the website updates and they're not up yet



See my previous post #3938 indicating the release day actions.


----------



## synkrotron

redlester said:


> See my previous post #3938 indicating the release day actions.



Ha! Yeah... I reacted to it at the time 

Oh well... Memory of a goldfish and all that


----------



## Zedcars




----------



## ERIC VALETTE

Something seems to be happening here: my order status has just changed from "pending" to "processed" 
I am in France (local time 10:00 am)

But nothing yet visible in the Spitfre app... I have not yet received the email...

Edit : I can see it, I can download it !!!!  (527,03 gigs)


----------



## bricop

Zedcars said:


>


did you get an email first or did it just appear?


----------



## Nemoy

Zedcars said:


>


Nice. So how long is it going to take you to finish the download?


----------



## bricop

ERIC VALETTE said:


> Something seems to be happening here: my order status has just changed from "pending" to "processed"
> I am in France (local time 10:00 am)
> 
> But nothing yet visible in the Spitfre app... I have not yet received the email...
> 
> Edit : I can see it, I can download it !!!!  (527,03 gigs)


same here in Scotland although not ready to download yet


----------



## ERIC VALETTE

bricop said:


> did you get an email first or did it just appear?


In my case it just appeared, once the status of the order passed in "processed". I have not received the email yet ...


----------



## Zedcars

Um, something's not right...seems I got too cocky and the 'Cocky God' got angry with me...  





Any ideas @SpitfireSupport


----------



## Zedcars

Nemoy said:


> Nice. So how long is it going to take you to finish the download?


I have the SSD option. But I can't get passed the above screenshot issue :(


----------



## synkrotron

Zedcars said:


> Any ideas @SpitfireSupport



Have you already installed stuff using the Spitfire Audio application?


----------



## Zedcars

bricop said:


> did you get an email first or did it just appear?


No email yet, I refreshed the app and it popped up.

*Remember to REFRESH the app though everyone!*


----------



## Nemoy

Zedcars said:


> I have the SSD option. But I can't get passed the above screenshot issue :(


so maybe its still not available to download for a few more hrs even though its on the app for some people...or the server is overloaded! Lol!


----------



## Zedcars

synkrotron said:


> Have you already installed stuff using the Spitfire Audio application?


I have done before yes, although I used an older version.


----------



## synkrotron

@Zedcars I'm just wondering if it is something to do with Windows Ransomware settings, assuming you are on Windows 10


----------



## Zedcars

Nemoy said:


> so maybe its still not available to download for a few more hrs even though its on the app for some people.


Maybe. I guess patience is the order of the day.

I'll go back to my special Launch day thingy-ma-jig I'm doing


----------



## Zedcars

synkrotron said:


> @Zedcars I'm just wondering if it is something to do with Windows Ransomware settings, assuming you are on Windows 10


I'm on a Mac (Mojave).


----------



## synkrotron

Zedcars said:


> I'm on a Mac (Mojave).



Ah, right... Not that then... Sorry


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Zedcars said:


> I have the SSD option. But I can't get passed the above screenshot issue :(



Can you contact us at spitfireaudio.com/support? It looks like a permissions issue, so if you right click on the disk, choose "info" and check the "sharing and permissions" at the bottom.

Also, just check that the format is Mac OS Extended (Journaled)


----------



## synkrotron

This may also fix a problem someone was having here trying to add other library stuff to the BBC SO SSD...


----------



## ERIC VALETTE

Product info on the Spitfire website has been updated with the following informations :

~1005296 Samples
566.0 GB download size Made up of 4 separate downloads - strings, brass, woodwinds & percussion.
Too large to download? Choose SSD or hard drive delivery at checkout.
568.0 GB disk space required during install
But not yet a user manual...


----------



## Zedcars

SpitfireSupport said:


> Can you contact us at spitfireaudio.com/support? It looks like a permissions issue, so if you right click on the disk, choose "info" and check the "sharing and permissions" at the bottom.
> 
> Also, just check that the format is Mac OS Extended (Journaled)


OK, I used the little help chat thingy on your website.

It looks like permissions and the format are correct. I wonder if it has to do with Mojave's tightened Security and Privacy settings?


----------



## chemie262

Zedcars said:


> OK, I used the little help chat thingy on your website.
> 
> It looks like permissions and the format are correct. I wonder if it has to do with Mojave's tightened Security and Privacy settings?


downloading with 250 Mbps


----------



## Zedcars

The page before the error gives me 2 options, neither of which apply to me. Download or Install via HDD. Am I doing something wrong here?:


----------



## Sovereign

Zedcars said:


> OK, I used the little help chat thingy on your website.
> 
> It looks like permissions and the format are correct. I wonder if it has to do with Mojave's tightened Security and Privacy settings?


I doubt that since that would trigger a warning no? Under sharing and permissions it says "you can only read", are you logged in with administrator privileges?


----------



## ERIC VALETTE

User manual is finally online ... reading to wait during the long download


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Zedcars said:


> The page before the error gives me 2 options, neither of which apply to me. Download or Install via HDD. Am I doing something wrong here?:



It's an HDD install, but in actual fact either should work. However, if the app can't write to the disk neither will work and it's that that we have to work out.

As an experiment, can you try copying a small file TO the SSD and see if your computer will let you?


----------



## Zedcars

Sovereign said:


> I doubt that since that would trigger a warning no? Under sharing and permissions it says "you can only read", are you logged in with administrator privileges?


My other hard drives are set to the same thing though, and I don't have any issues with those. Yes, I'm logged in as Admin.

Maybe i should try to edit the privileges? I don't want to make the problem worse though.


----------



## Sovereign

Zedcars said:


> Maybe i should try to edit the privileges? I don't want to make the problem worse though.


You should just try that you can always set those back easily.


----------



## widekeys

ERIC VALETTE said:


> Product info on the Spitfire website has been updated with the following informations :
> 
> ~1005296 Samples
> 566.0 GB download size Made up of 4 separate downloads - strings, brass, woodwinds & percussion.
> Too large to download? Choose SSD or hard drive delivery at checkout.
> 568.0 GB disk space required during install
> But not yet a user manual...


User Manual is online now.


----------



## Sovereign

chemie262 said:


> downloading with 250 Mbps


Meh, still nothing showing up in the app for me. 

Edit: my hand is hurting now from repeatedly hitting the refresh button.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Sovereign said:


> You should just try that you can always set those back easily.



Yes, you won't make the problem worse by changing the sharing permissions


----------



## Zedcars

SpitfireSupport said:


> It's an HDD install, but in actual fact either should work. However, if the app can't write to the disk neither will work and it's that that we have to work out.
> 
> As an experiment, can you try copying a small file TO the SSD and see if your computer will let you?


I tried and it asked for my admin login password (I don't usually need that when I copy files!) and then once I entered it, it successfully copied over:


----------



## chemie262

Sovereign said:


> Meh, still nothing showing up in the app for me.


250 MBps is maximum of my provider. So download is at maximum possible. I preordered very early. And I got this e-mail:



Dear Herbert,
Your purchase of BBC Symphony Orchestra is ready to download! Step-by-step instructions are shown below, but if you have any problems downloading, please visit our support page to get in touch with us.











*Install the Spitfire Audio App*






Please visit this page to download and install the latest version of the Spitfire Audio App. There is a video on the download process here.​











*Download and install your software*






BBC Symphony Orchestra is a plugin and requires no additional software to run other than your DAW.
Load up the latest version of the Spitfire Audio App on the computer where you want to use BBC Symphony Orchestra and you will see your purchase waiting for download.
To begin downloading, click the 'Install' button. Select the folder where you'd like the sample content, patches and presets to go and the download will begin.
VST, AU and AAX plugin files will be installed in the default system locations.
You can pause and resume downloads at any time.​











*Authorise your Library*






During installation, your software will be automatically authorised for use on the current computer. If you wish to use the software on a second computer, you can copy the BBC Symphony Orchestra folder across and then use the "locate" and "reauthorise" function in the Spitfire Audio App to authorise the plugin.​
















*Discover more*






For more information about your new library including videos, demos, specifications and the manual, please visit: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/​











All the best,
Paul, Christian and the Spitfire Team


----------



## redlester

My order is now listed as processed. But am at work for another 7 hours or so. Amazed we have no sleigh bells yet!!


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Zedcars said:


> I tried and it asked for my admin login password (I don't usually need that when I copy files!) and then once I entered it, it successfully copied over:


Great, so now you can write to the drive, try the install process again


----------



## bricop

Sovereign said:


> Meh, still nothing showing up in the app for me.
> 
> Edit: my hand is hurting now from repeatedly hitting the refresh button.


same here


----------



## Zedcars

SpitfireSupport said:


> Yes, you won't make the problem worse by changing the sharing permissions


I changed the permissions for 'everyone' to 'read and write' and now it seems to be working. Thanks so much for your help everyone, and sorry to be a pain in the bum!


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Zedcars said:


> I changed the permissions for 'everyone' to 'read and write' and now it seems to be working. Thanks so much for your help everyone, and sorry to be a pain in the bum!


No not at all! It helps to find out these things in case anyone else suffers the same problem


----------



## Zero&One

SpitfireSupport said:


> No not at all! It helps to find out these things in case anyone else suffers the same problem



I had no problem installing, but on opening the plugin I have several “overwrite preset” prompts. 
Repaired all sections, still no joy?


----------



## SZK-Max

Mmm I seem to lose the time to take a nap.


----------



## redlester

The user manual looks like it was done quickly on a laptop at 6.30am in Starbucks, not the usual Spitfire formatting. The layout and text size look odd, some of it serif and some sans serif but larger font size than usual, and the page numbers are in red.

Always someone waiting to criticise, eh?

🤣


----------



## redlester




----------



## CT

Ok, now I definitely need to abandon thread....


----------



## SpitfireSupport

James H said:


> I had no problem installing, but on opening the plugin I have several “overwrite preset” prompts.
> Repaired all sections, still no joy?



James, I'm not sure what that could be, could you contact spitfireaudio.com/support with screenshots?


----------



## porrasm

This is getting pretty intense. If the library doesn't appear for me before 15 when I leave home (in 3 hours in my time zone), I won't have time to play with it today. It would be a pain to wait for tomorrow.


----------



## Sovereign

It is coming ...  getting 400+ Mbps on the download.


----------



## synkrotron

miket said:


> Ok, now I definitely need to abandon thread...



Same here... Getting nothing done...


----------



## CT

My lady friend specifically told me not to stay up all night, but here we are at 05:00....


----------



## Saxer

It's working fine here... sounds great so far!

Is the Logic Template already out somewhere (the one that contains the instruments)?


----------



## vdk-john

Could/should we have a "no chat" thread with videos and audio tests from users who already have it?


----------



## cqd

God dammit..I currently regret putting off the pre order for a few weeks..


----------



## Zedcars

SpitfireSupport said:


> No not at all! It helps to find out these things in case anyone else suffers the same problem


A new problem has popped up. The app has been stuck on downloading for about 15 minutes (even though I have the SSD) with no change to the numbers, and the plugin doesn't seem to like me enough to come and live on my hard drive.


----------



## redlester

Saxer said:


> It's working fine here... sounds great so far!
> 
> Is the Logic Template already out somewhere (the one that contains the instruments)?



See my post 4312 above!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> A new problem has popped up. The app has been stuck on downloading for about 15 minutes (even though I have the SSD) with no change to the numbers, and the plugin doesn't seem to like me enough to come and live on my hard drive.


Nooo! Considering the effort you've put into the community, not fair. Fingers crossed for you mate.


----------



## Zero&One

SpitfireSupport said:


> James, I'm not sure what that could be, could you contact spitfireaudio.com/support with screenshots?




Thanks, raised a support call with screens


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Zedcars said:


> A new problem has popped up. The app has been stuck on downloading for about 15 minutes (even though I have the SSD) with no change to the numbers, and the plugin doesn't seem to like me enough to come and live on my hard drive.



Ok, it looks like it's not downloading the data it needs. I'd suggest leaving that to see if it kicks into life. If not, quit the app and try again.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Just a quick thought, having watched Christian's template video: Yes, I know a lot of this is marketing for BBCSO, but still..what an amazing resource. When I was starting out in the nineties, I had nothing like this. Expensive hardware modules that didn't really sound like an orchestra. No internet, vlogs or online help. No direct link to the pros..

I'm looking forward to seeing how all this develops. Keep going, Spitfire.


----------



## Saxer

redlester said:


> See my post 4312 above!


Great! Thanks!


----------



## bricop

Still waiting :(


----------



## jonvog

bricop said:


> Still waiting :(


me too. I want this so badly


----------



## JoeHidden

Me too 😞


----------



## SpitfireSupport

bricop said:


> Still waiting :(



Just a word on people waiting - we're processing orders in the order that people purchased the library, so if you ordered in August or early september, you should have it by now. If not, be patient please!


----------



## bricop

SpitfireSupport said:


> Just a word on people waiting - we're processing orders in the order that people purchased the library, so if you ordered in August or early september, you should have it by now. If not, be patient please!


thanks, mines was 8 October so I'll go put the kettle on


----------



## jonvog

SpitfireSupport said:


> Just a word on people waiting - we're processing orders in the order that people purchased the library, so if you ordered in August or early september, you should have it by now. If not, be patient please!


mid october here. trying to be patient. it's hard


----------



## Zedcars

I think I must be cursed or something. Overcame my second problem to get the app up and running, but now i have problem number 3:


----------



## synkrotron

I doff my cap to all you Early Adopters

I am sure all will be right in the end


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Zedcars said:


> I think I must be cursed or something. Overcame my second problem to get the app up and running, but now i have problem number 3:



I suspect these issues are related. Let's pick this up in the ticket that you created.

Ben


----------



## Zedcars

SpitfireSupport said:


> I suspect these issues are related. Let's pick this up in the ticket that you created.
> 
> Ben


Jack's got back to me on email. I'm just going through the Repair process (I wish it could repair me...maybe a future update could have this feature?  )


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Just a note on the manual - it has been updated with the correct instrument ranges and details from page 22


----------



## Zero&One

Zedcars said:


> I think I must be cursed or something. Overcame my second problem to get the app up and running, but now i have problem number 3:



I must be lucky, I just went straight to problem 3


----------



## zolhof

SpitfireSupport said:


> Just a word on people waiting - we're processing orders in the order that people purchased the library, so if you ordered in August or early september, you should have it by now. If not, be patient please!


----------



## redlester

SpitfireSupport said:


> Just a note on the manual - it has been updated with the correct instrument ranges and details from page 22



Your website has now crashed! Busy morning?


----------



## SpitfireSupport

redlester said:


> Your website has now crashed! Busy morning?



Oh my. I think it's back now.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

https://www.download-time.com/ 

You can check how long it will take to download the whole SO - My speed is 50mb -still 27 hours !


----------



## Zedcars

No sound.

After repairing everything, the Error 3 has gone away. I have tried loading a few different instruments with the plugin. Unfortunately, none of them produce any sound. I loaded a different 3rd party plugin just to make sure it isn’t anything stupid I’ve done, and the other plugin produces sound.

I’m using Cubase 10 Pro, Mac Mojave.

Also, I cannot adjust any of the mic volumes or switch them on or off.

Confused.com


----------



## idematoa

To wait... 

Source : BBCSO_Manual_v1.3


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Zedcars said:


> No sound.
> 
> After repairing everything, the Error 3 has gone away. I have tried loading a few different instruments with the plugin. Unfortunately, none of the produce any sound. I loaded a different 3rd party plugin just to make sure it isn’t anything stupid I’ve done, and the other plugin produces sound.
> 
> I’m using Cubase 10 Pro, Mac Mojave.
> 
> Also, I cannot adjust any of the mic volumes or switch them on or off.
> 
> Confused.com



We'll get back to you on the ticket. I'm certain that's something specific to you that we can resolve


----------



## redlester

SpitfireSupport said:


> Oh my. I think it's back now.



It is. But the user manual is now a dead link. Not a moan, just so you’re aware.

Edit; it’s sorted now.

Heads up to all: the user manual link now goes to a page with not only the pdf link but a series of videos on how to actually use the plugin.


----------



## Saxer

The Logic template is a really good starting point!


----------



## vdk-john




----------



## Saxer

In the walkthrough videos Paul mentioned the tenuto and marcato articulations are playable in length... so when you release the key they stop playing. That doesn't happen here. All shorts are one shot samples and ring out to the end. Dialing with the release time doesn't change that. Is there a secret envelope switch somewhere?


----------



## Ruffian Price

Damn, I thought the install process would change all those .part files into something more manageable to move files between PCs or keep only a few mic perspectives on the laptop. Looks like it's all or nothing on every computer you use.


----------



## redlester

Saxer said:


> In the walkthrough videos Paul mentioned the tenuto and marcato articulations are playable in length... so when you release the key they stop playing. That doesn't happen here. All shorts are one shot samples and ring out to the end. Dialing with the release time doesn't change that. Is there a secret envelope switch somewhere?



He demonstrates it on the flute near the start of the woodwinds video. Is it just specific to certain instruments?


----------



## PerryD

Whilst you are waiting for downloads... My wife is also a musician but it's nice I can make her leave my studio space shaking her head.  Perhaps the last sleighbells joke? I hope so. My Halloween plans have changed...


----------



## bricop

Can anyone shed some light on what might be going wrong here? Strings are downloading but all other files are asking to be repaired but the system is saying I have no resets left. Thanks

Installation has totally stopped. All files marked as needing repaired. Wondering if I should delete the folder from my external drive and start again?


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Ok guys. I'm afraid that because of the extreme load on our servers, you may be seeing error 3 and/or missing instruments after install.

Please do not panic and above all DO NOT DELETE ANYTHING.

Once our servers are back up off their knees you will be able to log into the app and do the install again.


----------



## cqd

No..stop it and start it again..should take up from where it left off..


----------



## Zero&One

bricop said:


> Can anyone shed some light on what might be going wrong here? Strings are downloading but all other files are asking to be repaired but the system is saying I have no resets left. Thanks



I'm sure the repair you see is just the default options, not really requiring a repair.

I think the servers are getting hammered so hold off deleting stuff


----------



## cqd

@Spitfire..Is there any chance of a routing/ fx diagram/schematic of that template for those of us without logic?


----------



## Zedcars

Oh deary me.

Maybe I should go and play the piano and come back in an hour or two. Can’t even get into the app. Poor guy on the remote chat is struggling too.


----------



## John R Wilson

Looks like their website is down. Just tried to get on there to take a look at the manual.


----------



## bricop

James H said:


> I'm sure the repair you see is just the default options, not really requiring a repair.
> 
> I think the servers are getting hammered so hold off deleting stuff



More patience required, the app won't even open now


----------



## Zero&One

Zedcars said:


> Oh deary me.
> 
> Maybe I should go and play the piano and come back in an hour or two. Can’t even get into the app. Poor guy on the remote chat is struggling too.



Im making the most of my day off with Borderlands 3


----------



## cqd

The remote connection that I was using to download it has gone tits up too..surely down to the spitfire app which was the only thing running..this is taking the whole '..breaks the internet' thing a bit too literally for my liking..ah well..it will have to be overnight tonight so..


----------



## redlester

I'm quite glad I'm at work!


----------



## ed buller

app crashed 3 times installing. Eventually worked. Cubase found it ( BBC ) but said no content. Now app crashes as soon as is launched. Website down....back to bed...


----------



## Bluemount Score

bricop said:


> thanks, mines was 8 October so I'll go put the kettle on


Don't worry, I ordered not even a week ago...


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Zedcars said:


> Oh deary me.
> 
> Maybe I should go and play the piano and come back in an hour or two. Can’t even get into the app. Poor guy on the remote chat is struggling too.



Yep, like I said above, it turns out this is all down to the load on our servers which we are trying to beef up as we speak


----------



## bricop

Should have bought the SSD, benefit of hindsight


----------



## jamwerks

These "legato" patches are a real break-through. Hard to imagine making music with anything less now. Totaly leaves the competition in the dust ! Surprised they aren't communicating more on this. Imo they should come up with a new name also (Improv patch?) ! This really sets them apart!


----------



## SpitfireSupport

bricop said:


> Should have bought the SSD, benefit of hindsight



Unfortunately this is affecting them as well since it still needs to communicate with our site


----------



## Zedcars

I’m gonna go for a you know what and come back later.

Now, where did I put my calming balls?


----------



## John R Wilson

jamwerks said:


> These "legato" patches are a real break-through. Hard to imagine making music with anything less now. Totaly leaves the competition in the dust ! Surprised they aren't communicating more on this. Imo they should come up with a new name also (Improv patch?) ! This really sets them apart!



Have you got it working/ using it? Legato was my main concern for the library so if they are break-through then that is awesome news.


----------



## stigc56

Zedcars said:


> I’m gonna go for a you know what and come back later.
> 
> Now, where did I put my calming balls?


On your piano?


----------



## AllanH

I'll wait a bit then. For me, the Spitfire app typically crashes with a json error (this morning). Once it made it past the json error and the BBCSO showed up. However, the moment I started the download, the Spitfire app crashed. At least it's not 5 AM for the Spitfire crew  I"ll add a ticket later this morning, if it has not been resolved by then.


----------



## redlester

I think I will transfer the files off the HDD to my working drive tonight, but leave it till Friday night to actually activate and run it.


----------



## AllanH

I see a new collaboration between Spitfire and Disney: Spitfire breaks the internet


----------



## PerryD

I have empathy for the Spitfire team. I'm sure they are scrambling about now. I am a little relieved that my SSD has not arrived yet. I'm sure they will get it sorted soon.


----------



## bricop

SpitfireSupport said:


> Unfortunately this is affecting them as well since it still needs to communicate with our site


ah, ok, don't feel so bad then. Thanks


----------



## Zero&One

bricop said:


> ah, ok, don't feel so bad then. Thanks



We get faster errors though  no buffering 
So there!


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> I’m gonna go for a you know what and come back later.
> 
> Now, where did I put my calming balls?



Why not listen to some music to calm you down?


(Seriously - hope you get sorted very soon)


----------



## AllanH

The downloads are running for me now. There must be a number of stressed-out IT guys at this point  Thanks for resolving.


----------



## redlester

The web site seems to be staying functional again, noticed on Twitter they announced it was down.

Still says "Pre-Order" on the BBC SO page though - needs updating to simply "Order"!


----------



## Zedcars

Got it working! Sleigh bells come to papa!


----------



## Patrick.K

Zedcars said:


> Got it working! Sleigh bells come to papa!


finally it works it's great I'm happy for you !.


----------



## Patrick.K

For me, I will wait until next month to order ... with the SSD for more tranquility!


----------



## Ruffian Price

Even started showing up in Komplete Kontrol now. Everything seems fine.


----------



## Zedcars

Patrick9152 said:


> For me, I will wait until next month to order ... with the SSD for more tranquility!


I had the SSD, but the set up was far from tranquil. I don't have any negative feelings - just all part of being an early adopter - which is a new experience for me. Totally understandable there would be teething problems, and the support team were amazing at helping sort my problem out.


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

redlester said:


> Still says "Pre-Order" on the BBC SO page though - needs updating to simply "Order"!



Probably because they are processing pre-orders on a "first come, first serve" basis, and that process is not yet finished.

So if you order now, you will be added to that list (bottom) and have to wait till everything is processed.
Probably saves them some questions via support if they had changed the button to "Order".


----------



## L-A Desire

Sjoerd Visser said:


> Probably because they are processing pre-orders on a "first come, first serve" basis, and that process is not yet finished.
> 
> So if you order now, you will be added to that list (bottom) and have to wait till everything is processed.
> Probably saves them some questions via support if they had changed the button to "Order".



Still says *Product available October 24th... *And I haven't been able to download yet. So one of those texts should be changed  Are we getting picky?


----------



## Ruffian Price

Ruffian Price said:


> Damn, I thought the install process would change all those .part files into something more manageable to move files between PCs or keep only a few mic perspectives on the laptop. Looks like it's all or nothing on every computer you use.


Hey, this is also fixed now! New folder structure with clearly named instruments, groups and signals. I'll check how it works with just a few of those on the PC.


----------



## gtrwll

Downloading now. Seems to work at full speed


----------



## PhilipJohnston

jamwerks said:


> These "legato" patches are a real break-through. Hard to imagine making music with anything less now. Totaly leaves the competition in the dust ! Surprised they aren't communicating more on this. Imo they should come up with a new name also (Improv patch?) ! This really sets them apart!


Jamwerks (or anybody else): can you confirm whether this improv-style legato is available for all string, brass and wind instruments in BBC, or just a select few?


----------



## dzilizzi

idematoa said:


> To wait...
> 
> Source : BBCSO_Manual_v1.3


I've never heard of a Contrabass stringed instrument. Is this correct?


----------



## idematoa

Find on Soundcloud
NB : Rework of a piece I wrote around 2005 using Spitfire Audio's new BBCSO library 

*Sunrise (BBCSO) by Keith Theodosiou*


----------



## redlester

Sjoerd Visser said:


> Probably because they are processing pre-orders on a "first come, first serve" basis, and that process is not yet finished.
> 
> So if you order now, you will be added to that list (bottom) and have to wait till everything is processed.
> Probably saves them some questions via support if they had changed the button to "Order".



But if the release date is the 24th which is today, then you are ordering not pre-ordering. Regardless of when delivery is. Pre-ordering means ordering before release.


----------



## erica-grace

jamwerks said:


> These "legato" patches are a real break-through. Hard to imagine making music with anything less now. Totaly leaves the competition in the dust ! Surprised they aren't communicating more on this. Imo they should come up with a new name also (Improv patch?) ! This really sets them apart!



Care to post an audio ex?


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> I've never heard of a Contrabass stringed instrument. Is this correct?


Yes, just another name for the double basses.


----------



## idematoa

Pre-Order is finish !


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> Yes, just another name for the double basses.


Ah. Usually the Contrabass is in front of a woodwind instrument. Thanks


----------



## Zedcars

It’s all gone awfully quiet around here. Is everybody playing with their new toy?


----------



## JoeHidden

@SpitfireSupport: An ETA when all preorder customer will serverd? The business day is nearly over and still no sign in the app.

Edit: There it is. 🙏


----------



## John R Wilson

Zedcars said:


> It’s all gone awfully quiet around here. Is everybody playing with their new toy?



I've not downloaded it yet and got work in 2.5 hrs :( What's everyones early impressions of the library?


----------



## Sovereign

Zedcars said:


> It’s all gone awfully quiet around here. Is everybody playing with their new toy?


Waiting for download to finish, almost done with 20 GB left or so. Speed dropped a bit during the afternoon (thanks everyone!).


----------



## AEF

Im curious about Jake’s mix. Since the template is setup as all instruments using Mix 1, is Jake’s Mix 1 the balanced relative to all instruments?

In other words, loading up the template with everyone using Mix 1 full, is the orchestra balanced? Or is Mix 1 simply an _individual_ instrument mix?

I ask bc a big selling point I was interested in vs say SSO (which I own 2/3rds of) was the instantly professionally balanced template. Seeing as it is just all instruments using jakes mix 1 however has me questioning if it covers what I was looking for.


----------



## ed buller

it's a mess. I'm waiting to try and re instill. Half the library is missing and the stuff that is there only plays sporadically. Hopefully this will get sorted

best

ed


----------



## Patrick.K

Symphobia 4: Pandora News - ProjectSAM


Welcome to the Symphobia 4: Pandora News section!Here we will collect all S4Pandora pre-release info, artwork, demo and videos leading up to the release of the fourth installment in the Symphobia Series. We’re excited! 11 Nov: Pandora now available! Symphobia 4: Pandora is now available for...




projectsam.com




....
_We have a release date for you! S4Pandora will be unleashed unto the world on *Monday, November 11th 2019*! ..._


----------



## dzilizzi

Patrick9152 said:


> Symphobia 4: Pandora News - ProjectSAM
> 
> 
> Welcome to the Symphobia 4: Pandora News section!Here we will collect all S4Pandora pre-release info, artwork, demo and videos leading up to the release of the fourth installment in the Symphobia Series. We’re excited! 11 Nov: Pandora now available! Symphobia 4: Pandora is now available for...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> projectsam.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> _We have a release date for you! S4Pandora will be unleashed unto the world on *Monday, November 11th 2019*! ..._


I have the 3 Symphobias and never really use them. I pull them up to try them in something, but they have weird mixes of instruments and sometimes limited ranges. So I end up using something else. I think you have to write to them.


----------



## Bluemount Score

I ordered last friday and finally got my mail from Spitfire 
Good thing I was at work the whole day.


----------



## Adam Takacs

Bluemount Score said:


> I ordered last friday and finally got my mail from Spitfire
> Good thing I was at work the whole day.


Great news, I ordered at 19th, then my email will arrive soon as well.


----------



## John R Wilson

Sound on Sound review is out!


----------



## jamieboo

I really want to hear a BBCSO rendition of Hedwig's Theme!
But I guess that's not going to be something new owners are going to be able to toss out in a couple of hours!


----------



## Patrick.K

dzilizzi said:


> I have the 3 Symphobias and never really use them. I pull them up to try them in something, but they have weird mixes of instruments and sometimes limited ranges. So I end up using something else. I think you have to write to them.


It was just to joke, you're right.
I have Symphobia 1 and Orchestral Essentials 1.
I think the same thing, hardly exploitable, and if Pandora is in the same register, then Boff ...


----------



## Saxer

redlester said:


> He demonstrates it on the flute near the start of the woodwinds video. Is it just specific to certain instruments?


Itˋs on all short patches I tried when loading the „hybrid keyswitch“ template. I didnˋt try everything but the flute tenutos and marcatos are defenitely one shots and donˋt react to note off.


----------



## Saxer

I really like the legato patches. The legato is not as smooth as CSS but it‘s a patch that might work on 80% of my needs. It‘s very playable and makes a lot of key switches simply redundant. Even repeated shorts are possible.


----------



## wbacer

Received SSD, installed BBC on my PC (3 minutes) and so far it works. 
Building Cubase Template...


----------



## ERIC VALETTE

Saxer said:


> Itˋs on all short patches I tried when loading the „hybrid keyswitch“ template. I didnˋt try everything but the flute tenutos and marcatos are defenitely one shots and donˋt react to note off.


Exactly the same thing here... Either there is an option to activate somewhere in the plug-in, or we may have to wait for a future fix ...


----------



## Sovereign

For those who want to know, the multi-tongued patches are tempo-synched.


----------



## Sovereign

Saxer said:


> Itˋs on all short patches I tried when loading the „hybrid keyswitch“ template. I didnˋt try everything but the flute tenutos and marcatos are defenitely one shots and donˋt react to note off.


Same here.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

redlester said:


> As if by magic, a legatos demo!




That is a beautiful demo, best I've heard from any developer in quite awhile actually. I wonder if BBCSO was used for all of the instruments??


----------



## Adam Takacs

6mbps / section download speed, while I have 100mbps connection. long days are coming...


----------



## synkrotron

Sovereign said:


> the multi-tongued patches are tempo-synched



What about the trills


----------



## vdk-john

tadam said:


> 6mbps / section download speed, while I have 100mbps connection. long days are coming...



Is it possible to download one section at a time?


----------



## al_net77

vdk-john said:


> Is it possible to download one section at a time?



Yes.


----------



## artomatic

Downloading with 90mbps totaling all sections.
Here we go!!


----------



## Adam Takacs

vdk-john said:


> Is it possible to download one section at a time?


Yes, I tried but the speed does not change.


----------



## Virtuoso

Coming down at 100Mbps per stream here, apart from Percussion which is stubbornly lolloping along at 26Mbps. The Percussion section must still have a hangover from the launch party...


----------



## Spitfire Team

BBC Symphony Orchestra is AVAILABLE NOW

**


----------



## synkrotron

Spitfire Team said:


> BBC Symphony Orchestra is AVAILABLE NOW



Excellent! Thanks


----------



## Sovereign

synkrotron said:


> Excellent! Thanks


If they hadn't told us now I'd never have known.


----------



## Andrew0568

jamieboo said:


> I really want to hear a BBCSO rendition of Hedwig's Theme!
> But I guess that's not going to be something new owners are going to be able to toss out in a couple of hours!


Really like the sound of the celeste! This is the default celeste, nothing else on it


----------



## synkrotron

Sovereign said:


> If they hadn't told us now I'd never have known.



Apologies... I forgot to use the [SARCASM] tags...


----------



## jamieboo

Andrew0568 said:


> Really like the sound of the celeste! This is the default Celeste, nothing else on it




Hey! That celeste is indeed sounding good! But don't stop! Get into the meat of it!


----------



## Zero&One

Sounds great

Gutted I can't use it, mine still doesn't work


----------



## redlester

Saxer said:


> Itˋs on all short patches I tried when loading the „hybrid keyswitch“ template. I didnˋt try everything but the flute tenutos and marcatos are defenitely one shots and donˋt react to note off.



That’s weird. Paul clearly demonstrates it at 2 minutes into the woodwinds walkthrough. So unless he’s using a version of the plugin with extra functionality there must be a way to do it.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

I installed it and things have been pretty smooth sailing for the last hour. Loving the sound of it, but I'm equally impressed by how clean and simple the interface is in terms of navigating. The option to choose between simple and advanced mic settings is really useful for someone like me in the early stages.

My only gripe is that while the plugin and instruments load surprisingly quickly, there are times when 
my clicking of a patch doesn't seem to register and I have to click it again before it loads. It's possible that it *is* actually loading the patch in the background without me knowing it, but some sort of visual feedback for this would be useful so I don't confuse it with the plugin having crashed.


----------



## CT

In their Kontakt libraries, you can toggle the timed releases on and off. I know there's an option for that in their own player, but I can't remember where. One of the menus that drops down from the top, somewhere. Not at my computer right now.


----------



## Saxer

miket said:


> In their Kontakt libraries, you can toggle the timed releases on and off. I know there's an option for that in their own player, but I can't remember where. One of the menus that drops down from the top, somewhere. Not at my computer right now.


Good to know, thanks! I have to wait until next week to try to find that feature.


----------



## Sovereign

miket said:


> In their Kontakt libraries, you can toggle the timed releases on and off. I know there's an option for that in their own player, but I can't remember where. One of the menus that drops down from the top, somewhere. Not at my computer right now.


Correct that solved the issue! Not sure what the difference is between timed and untimed though.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Andrew0568 said:


> Really like the sound of the celeste! This is the default Celeste, nothing else on it



Now let us hear how fast strings sound from the same harry potter theme!🍿


----------



## CT

Sovereign said:


> Correct that solved the issue! Not sure what the difference is between timed and untimed though.



I believe it's "timed" as in timed RT's with you letting go of the keys, and "untimed" just plays the one-shot sample.


----------



## Denkii

jamieboo said:


> I really want to hear a BBCSO rendition of Hedwig's Theme!
> But I guess that's not going to be something new owners are going to be able to toss out in a couple of hours!


This^


----------



## Kenjoe

what rating would you give BBC SO for those who have tested?


----------



## Ruffian Price

Ruffian Price said:


> Hey, this is also fixed now! New folder structure with clearly named instruments, groups and signals. I'll check how it works with just a few of those on the PC.


Got it to work! Was stuck for a while, but it plays fine now on the PC with just the Mix 1, CloseWide and Tree mics. Just copy them over (don't forget about the .dbs and the Maida Vale IR!) and repair *first the plugin, then the four sections* on your target machine. Hell yeah!


----------



## synkrotron

Kenjoe said:


> what rating would you give BBC SO for those who have tested?



Too early, I would have thought... need another few days, but what do I know


----------



## Bluemount Score

Kenjoe said:


> what rating would you give BBC SO for those who have tested?


10/10 download is working


----------



## Tilt & Flow

synkrotron said:


> Too early, I would have thought... need another few days, but what do I know


Just getting started but so far exceeds expectations - which were high. The tone is Beautiful. Playability of legatos is excellent. I'm Very Pleased with this library!


----------



## synkrotron

Tilt & Flow said:


> I'm Very Pleased with this library!



Nice to know


----------



## bricop

tadam said:


> 6mbps / section download speed, while I have 100mbps connection. long days are coming...


same here


----------



## ed buller

working now. I need to move this to a faster drive. It sounds wonderful. Very Old Hollywood , Which is what I'm after. More The Force Awakens than Current trends. The Horns are the only disappointment. Just to small and the Stacc's too Tame...But everything else so far sounds wonderful. The ambience is perfect. Just using the stereo mix is enough really. There are a few bugs here and there. Crossfades and dynamics but really for this sort of money it's an incredible feat. 

Best


ed


----------



## porrasm

ed buller said:


> working now. I need to move this to a faster drive. It sounds wonderful. Very Old Hollywood , Which is what I'm after. More The Force Awakens than Current trends. The Horns are the only disappointment. Just to small and the Stacc's too Tame...But everything else so far sounds wonderful. The ambience is perfect. Just using the stereo mix is enough really. There are a few bugs here and there. Crossfades and dynamics but really for this sort of money it's an incredible feat.
> 
> Best
> 
> 
> ed




Do you have it on a hard drive? I'm thinking of getting an SSD for this but don't know if it's worth it.


----------



## AndyP

bricop said:


> same here


here too


----------



## ed buller

I bought their SSD. But My computers USB ports aren't c sped. So I'm going to transfer to an internal.

e


----------



## Odum Abekah

AndyP said:


> here too


I got 228 hours to go on this download LOL 😂😭


----------



## Guffy

Well the brass downloaded fast. Gotta clear more space out to download the rest


----------



## ed buller

The "Leaders" sound fantastic.....Full of great articulations......The Cello Flat are bliss

e


----------



## TeamLeader

We need to do our download on a non-production mac in other rooms, and then move it to our host mac and a slave. Gonna download onto a 7200 on our biz mac, then move it to studio to the SSD's. What is best way to do that? We only get two licenses correct???


----------



## Bluemount Score

Guffy said:


> Well the brass downloaded fast. Gotta clear more space out to download the rest


Can you use the brass already before downloading the rest?


----------



## Ruffian Price

Couldn't resist.


----------



## Portland

Ruffian Price said:


> Couldn't resist.



Haha! Nice tuba. Kind of "Jabba The Hutt" meets "Hogwarts."


----------



## Bluemount Score

Ruffian Price said:


> Couldn't resist.


The sleighbell killed me


----------



## Guffy

Bluemount Score said:


> Can you use the brass already before downloading the rest?


Yes you can


----------



## CT

If anyone here is running this on a computer below the minimum CPU requirements, I'd love to hear how it's going....


----------



## Adam Takacs

miket said:


> I believe it's "timed" as in timed RT's with you letting go of the keys, and "untimed" just plays the one-shot sample.


Yes, indeed. And this function is available in their own plugin, if you click on that three dots in the top-right corner. My download is too slow, 10% at the moment, so I can't check if it works for every short articulations.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Ruffian Price said:


> Couldn't resist.


Great to see the library is already being put to good use


----------



## ed buller

My Only BIG gripe. These Stacc Horns are dreadfully wimpy....


----------



## Bluemount Score

ed buller said:


> My Only BIG gripe. These Stacc Horns are dreadfully wimpy....


Oof, are those max dynamics?


----------



## dzilizzi

ed buller said:


> My Only BIG gripe. These Stacc Horns are dreadfully wimpy....


They kind of blend in, don't they. I wonder if that is how they mostly play?


----------



## ed buller

Bluemount Score said:


> Oof, are those max dynamics?


yup...127 full MOD...11 basically.............


----------



## AEF

ed buller said:


> My Only BIG gripe. These Stacc Horns are dreadfully wimpy....



That sounds odd to say the least. Are the trombones similar?


----------



## Scamper

ed buller said:


> My Only BIG gripe. These Stacc Horns are dreadfully wimpy....



What mic setting is this and how does it change with different and closer mics?


----------



## Bluemount Score

ed buller said:


> yup...127 full MOD...11 basically.............


Aiaiai... I love my horn staccatos and found it hard to believe that something could replace my current favorite MA1, at least for those very loud fff parts. Sure, fff is NOT what BBCSO was made for. However I thought that everything would be very useful in its own niche, but this is definitely the weakest part I heard from this library so far. My download is still ongoing, will have to check for myself later / tomorrow.


----------



## ed buller

AEF said:


> That sounds odd to say the least. Are the trombones similar?


No Much Better and the Horns Longs are fine...but Staccs are crap...soz

e


----------



## dzilizzi

That was just the French horns, correct? Do they usually get louder than that? I don't know, which is why I ask.


----------



## ed buller

well compared to other Sample Libraries I would say they are a bit lame......

e


----------



## widekeys

ed buller said:


> No Much Better and the Horns Longs are fine...but Staccs are crap...soz
> 
> e


Can you try to layer the French horn solo?


----------



## ed buller

widekeys said:


> Can you try to layer the French horn solo?




Sure

But it's the ferocity..........and perhaps the sound of the French Horns.....Maybe I'm addicted to Amercian French Horns I dunno !


----------



## ed buller

But It really is my only gripe...................the rest sounds fantastic

e


----------



## cqd

Man..why in God's name are the keyswitches down there?
Who the hell had a keyboard that goes down that far?..
The clue is in the name.. they're supposed to be on a key..on a keyboard presumably..


----------



## porrasm

cqd said:


> Man..why in God's name are the keyswitches down there?
> Who the hell had a keyboard that goes down that far?..
> The clue is in the name.. they're supposed to be on a key..on a keyboard presumably..


Which patch and how low?


----------



## dzilizzi

cqd said:


> Man..why in God's name are the keyswitches down there?
> Who the hell had a keyboard that goes down that far?..
> The clue is in the name.. they're supposed to be on a key..on a keyboard presumably..


I guess it doesn't matter on a midi editor. Can you map them elsewhere?


----------



## cqd

I probably can, but it's a pain in the arse..


----------



## babylonwaves

cqd said:


> I probably can, but it's a pain in the arse..


buy a cheap little keyboard (or use a tablet with metagrid/touchosc/lemur etc). use it to switch ...


----------



## Celestial Aeon

I got the preordered SSD and just did a simple straight forward test run and produced two small snippets after setting up a very basic template. If you are interested you can skip around this live stream and hear for yourself. Like I state in the stream working with traditional full orchestra is definitely not my forte but something I am working towards, so I am a bit out of my comfort zone here 

All in all the first impression is that it sounds very good out of the box and seems excellent for softer, not balls to the walls trailer kind of production which I guess is pretty predictable.

I don't own the Spitfire Symphony Orchestra so the main question probably is that how do these two compare and if one owns the SSO already, is there point in getting BBC. But if one doesn't have SSO, at least BBC seems to offer really reasonable "full orchestra" out of the box that is playable and of high quality.

The end outcome snippets can be listened to here for the time being:









Follow the Hidden Path.wav


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com












Beyond the Woods.wav


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Portland

That's odd, the horns a4 staccatissimo sure sounded louder in the walkthroughs.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, the horns stacc and marcato is surely some sort of mistake..


----------



## Zero&One

Regret the ssd purchase sadly.
Plugin is still broke for me and no reply from support since midday. Kinda defeats the object of immediate playability


----------



## redlester

I lied earlier...couldn't resist installing tonight!  
So far it sounds utterly gorgeous.

Re. the staccato horns - try playing around with the mic options, I've got it pretty hefty sounding here using a mix of the JJ Mix 2 and Close Mics.

Just noticed in Logic when loading the plugin it gives the options:
Stereo
Multi-output (16 x stereo)
Multi-output (25 x stereo)
Does this mean we can create Kontakt style multi's with it???


----------



## Bluemount Score

redlester said:


> Just noticed in Logic when loading the plugin it gives the options:
> Stereo
> Multi-output (16 x stereo)
> Multi-output (25 x stereo)
> Does this mean we can create Kontakt style multi's with it???


This is my question as well. I'm a total newbie when it comes to this player and am only used to Kontakt so far.
Therefore and how I understood it, one instance of the BBCSO plugin is necessary for every single instrument?


----------



## synkrotron

James H said:


> Regret the ssd purchase sadly.
> Plugin is still broke for me and no reply from support since midday. Kinda defeats the object of immediate playability



Sorry to hear that, James, I hope it gets sorted.

@SpitfireSupport @Spitfire Team


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Bluemount Score said:


> This is my question as well. I'm a total newbie when it comes to this player and am only used to Kontakt so far.
> Therefore and how I understood it, one instance of the BBCSO plugin is necessary for every single instrument?



I haven't read the manual yet, but in one of Paul's videos he demonstrates how you can select more than one articulation (within an instance), and they show up in various places of the keyboard. I think it was the percussion video.


----------



## synkrotron

Regarding keyswitches.

Does no one here adopt the idea to articulation per track? Is that a big no no?

Asking as a new person to this kind of stuff.

At the moment I appear to be going down the articulation per track path after watching a lot of @christianhenson YouTubes where he appears to be doing that.


----------



## Ruffian Price

You can see the output selector under every mic, it's for mixing.


Wolfie2112 said:


> I haven't read the manual yet, but in one of Paul's videos he demonstrates how you can select more than one articulation (within an instance), and they show up in various places of the keyboard.


They have to stay selected though. If you have another articulation set up on a different MIDI channel, playing it will switch from your multi and you'll need to set it up again. It's a slightly different kind of workflow and I already had to adjust the way I do microedits

The string leader perf legatos are nuts. This is just V1, V2, Va, Vc with the perf legato on a single channel and no CCs (it's a little uninspired, but I'm including the midi in the spirit of ~collaboration~). Love the little breath at the end.


----------



## Portland

I have a theory, and it may or may not hold any water.

If someone is playing around with the library one section at a time _before_ fully downloading it, and certain samples don't sound quite right, is it possible that some programming data required for those articulations is actually stored in a different section of the product that hasn't been downloaded yet, hence the trouble? I'm not real tech savvy so I might not be phrasing the question right.

Although, if BBCSO is designed to be used modularly, say, woodwinds only, then that would negate my idea.


----------



## Scamper

synkrotron said:


> Does no one here adopt the idea to articulation per track? Is that a big no no?



I think both ways have their advantages.

If you put multiple articulations of an instrument on one track, it's easier to put in melodies and the lines of the instrument and then, within the line, you can set the right articulation for each part or note. I prefer this way, because you also see the instrument as part of your virtual orchestra and everything, that it does in this one track.

Using just one articulation per track, it's easier to layer articulations of the same instrument, which can lead to more unrealistic/untypical orchestrations, but is fine, if that's what you're going for. Also you will clearly see what articulation is playing at a certain moment, but it will also bloat your track list.

In the end, if the way that you're using is fine with you and fits your workflow, it should be all good.


----------



## Ruffian Price

Portland said:


> If someone is playing around with the library one section at a time _before_ fully downloading it, and certain samples don't sound quite right, is it possible that some programming data required for those articulations is actually stored in a different section of the product that hasn't been downloaded yet, hence the trouble?


Judging by the folder structure, that's all downloaded with the plugin. Check out them files, the names are quite descriptive. Looks like they had quick patching in mind, change a single small file if there's a shitty legato transition or something, but still keep groups monolithic as copy protection


----------



## Nemoy

Let's hear them fast strings runs and woodwinds runs!!! Keep the demos and quick mock ups coming!! Bring it on. Thanks everyone. Great short demos so far from those who already shared!!


----------



## Scamper

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Now let us hear how fast strings sound from the same harry potter theme!🍿



Yep, here's the MIDI for it, if anybody wants to put this in. Tempo is 160bpm.


----------



## synkrotron

Thank you @Scamper 

Yes, I did think that the multi articulation per track would suit actually playing a line in easier whereas the articulation per tracks suits a kind of programming approach.

I can't play that well so I will more than likely stick to articulation per track as I find it easier to go back and forth between say a pizz articulation then a long.

Then again, the only library I have is the Solo Strings thing so for the cello and violin parts I am find that they work pretty much as intended... A track for all the expected articulations for a solo performance.


I am wondering, then, does the BBC SO library have something similar to the "Total Performance" patched in Solo Strings?


----------



## Nemoy

Scamper said:


> Yep, here's the MIDI for it, if anybody wants to put this in.


you have an mp3 or soundcloud version we can listen to? Or did you already post it somewhere as I dont see it. Thx!!


----------



## Scamper

Nemoy said:


> you have an mp3 or soundcloud version we can listen to? Or did you already post it somewhere as I dont see it. Thx!!



Sorry, it's just the MIDI, since I don't have BBC SO.
For comparison, my version with SCS is here: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/spitfire-symphonic-strings-sss.57362/#post-4016178
A bunch of other versions with different libaries are also there.


----------



## ed buller

James H said:


> Regret the ssd purchase sadly.
> Plugin is still broke for me and no reply from support since midday. Kinda defeats the object of immediate playability


go on line to the chat...they are swamped but they got back to me really quickly 

e


----------



## Ruffian Price

Scamper said:


> Yep, here's the MIDI for it, if anybody wants to put this in. Tempo is 160bpm.


Sounds like any other in that regard, really. I lowered the velocities for the spiccatos to make it more consistent

Also goddamn, those little glisses in your Sable test really sell the part.


----------



## Zero&One

ed buller said:


> go on line to the chat...they are swamped but they got back to me really quickly
> 
> e



I was in mid chat, they said a new plugin was getting dropped very shortly. Then nuttin.
I’d troubleshoot it myself but with the limited “repairs” you get I’m out of luck.
See what tomorrow brings, although I could have downloaded by then sigh


----------



## redlester

Ruffian Price said:


> You can see the output selector under every mic, it's for mixing.



Is this a reference to the multi-output question?
I suppose that means you could put different effects, reverbs, etc. on the different mic signals?


----------



## pawelmorytko

Ruffian Price said:


> Sounds like any other in that regard, really. I lowered the velocities for the spiccatos to make it more consistent
> 
> Also goddamn, those little glisses in your Sable test really sell the part.


Performance legato sounds pretty good!


----------



## Adam Takacs

In the download manager, the full size of the library is 527.14GB but based of Spitfire website, the download size is 566.0GB. Can somebody tell me the reason of the difference?


----------



## redlester

Again regarding the horn staccatissimo:-

Go to the three dots top right of the plug in and under "Dynamics" change it to "Compressed Velocity High" or "Compressed Velocity Low", have a play around with that. The staccato horns a4 sound great to me.


----------



## ed buller

Thanks for this I'll try it....Any body got this to work in VE Pro ?

e


----------



## ed buller

James H said:


> I was in mid chat, they said a new plugin was getting dropped very shortly. Then nuttin.
> I’d troubleshoot it myself but with the limited “repairs” you get I’m out of luck.
> See what tomorrow brings, although I could have downloaded by then sigh


R u running off their SSD

e


----------



## Ruffian Price

redlester said:


> Is this a reference to the multi-output question?
> I suppose that means you could put different effects, reverbs, etc. on the different mic signals?


Well, yeah. Most DAWs will let you route different plugin outputs to different mixer channels and do stuff like putting close section mics on separate tracks, but have a shared "tree signal" for the whole orchestra. This isn't a feature exclusive to BBCSO, either.


----------



## Scamper

Ruffian Price said:


> Sounds like any other in that regard, really. I lowered the velocities for the spiccatos to make it more consistent
> Also goddamn, those little glisses in your Sable test really sell the part.



Sounds alright, but maybe a little clean for the runs.
Maybe the run articulation isn't quite triggered at this tempo. I think in my example with SCS, the run articulation wasn't triggered either, since according to the legato performance setup, it is triggered with less than 89ms between notes and this run is a tad above that, but who knows how it is now.

SCS/Sable has this tad of blurriness in the runs and I think Berlin Strings does this even more, which is nice.


----------



## redlester

miket said:


> If anyone here is running this on a computer below the minimum CPU requirements, I'd love to hear how it's going....



I'm on a 2012 Mac Mini 2.3GHz i7 with 16MB RAM, so right on the borderline really as the minimum spec is a 2.8GHz i5.

Have only loaded individual sounds to audition, haven't used it in anger yet, but the only issue am having so far is that when I load a new instrument it seems to take a while before I can get any sound out of it. Up to about 30 seconds for the default violin. Also some patches, particularly the legatos, are quite glitchy for a similar period of time until fully loaded. I'm assuming this is because I'm not only on the above spec, but also for the time being am running it off a hard drive, not an SSD.

Now, are those new Mac Pro's available to actually buy yet? (If only...!)


----------



## ed buller

redlester said:


> Again regarding the horn staccatissimo:-
> 
> Go to the three dots top right of the plug in and under "Dynamics" change it to "Compressed Velocity High" or "Compressed Velocity Low", have a play around with that. The staccato horns a4 sound great to me.


That just sets it to 127..all the time...sorta useless.....and the same sound I had

e


----------



## redlester

Ruffian Price said:


> Well, yeah. Most DAWs will let you route different plugin outputs to different mixer channels and do stuff like putting close section mics on separate tracks, but have a shared "tree signal" for the whole orchestra. This isn't a feature exclusive to BBCSO, either.



BBC SO is the only one of the Spitfire non-Kontakt plugins which offers the choice of multi-output when selecting the plugin in a Logic track. All the others offer simply "Stereo".


----------



## redlester

ed buller said:


> That just sets it to 127..all the time...sorta useless.....and the same sound I had
> 
> e



Not on mine. The Compressed Velocity Low option makes it extremely velocity sensitive.


----------



## ed buller

not here...it's maxed out...but THAT's not the issue...it's the samples....they only go to 7 not 11...............I mean...they are french horns !!!!!!!!!!!!WTF ??

e


----------



## Architekton

Hopefully those brass stacatos are some sort of bug as that definitely sounds too mellow and soft...


----------



## CT

redlester said:


> I'm on a 2012 Mac Mini 2.3GHz i7 with 16MB RAM, so right on the borderline really as the minimum spec is a 2.8GHz i5.
> 
> Have only loaded individual sounds to audition, haven't used it in anger yet, but the only issue am having so far is that when I load a new instrument it seems to take a while before I can get any sound out of it. Up to about 30 seconds for the default violin. Also some patches, particularly the legatos, are quite glitchy for a similar period of time until fully loaded. I'm assuming this is because I'm not only on the above spec, but also for the time being am running it off a hard drive, not an SSD.
> 
> Now, are those new Mac Pro's available to actually buy yet? (If only...!)



Thanks for that. I'm on a 2011 iMac, 2.5 i5, 32 gigs, I'd probably just put it on my internal SSD... I need to upgrade soon anyway, just wondering how much use I'd be able to get out of this with this setup in the meantime.


----------



## ed buller

Architekton said:


> Hopefully those brass stacatos are some sort of bug as that definitely sounds too mellow and soft...



Yup...i'm with you

e


----------



## redlester

ed buller said:


> not here...it's maxed out...but THAT's not the issue...it's the samples....they only go to 7 not 11...............I mean...they are french horns !!!!!!!!!!!!WTF ??
> 
> e



OK not sure what else to say, except that mine sounds nothing like the mp3 you uploaded!


----------



## ed buller

VEP PRO anybody ??

e


----------



## ed buller

redlester said:


> OK not sure what else to say, except that mine sounds nothing like the mp3 you uploaded!


let's hear it ?

e


----------



## cqd

The trumpets are fine..the horns are, its surely a bug..bbcso 1.0.0.1..


----------



## Portland

Concerning the weak horn staccatos - which mic position is that?


----------



## cqd

All of them..


----------



## Portland

Okay. Just curious. Sounds like a bug then. I'm sure Spitfire will take care of it. Sounds annoying, though!


----------



## Zero&One

ed buller said:


> R u running off their SSD
> 
> e



Yeah


----------



## ed buller

Portland said:


> Okay. Just curious. Sounds like a bug then. I'm sure Spitfire will take care of it. Sounds annoying, though!


It might well be...I'm not hearing the same Bit I hear on the longs at the full dynamic....so It would most likely be a bug

e


----------



## ed buller

James H said:


> Yeah


try quitting everything. Delete the spitfire app .Then re-install the spitfire app. Then find your drive and repair it ussing the app. Make sure it doesn't download all the content..Just repairs stuff

e


----------



## Zedcars

Finally, after a ton of problems today, I've finally finished my belated launch day video:





Just hoping Paul is ok about this. Just a bit of light humour, no harm intended.

Enjoy.


----------



## Zero&One

ed buller said:


> try quitting everything. Delete the spitfire app .Then re-install the spitfire app. Then find your drive and repair it ussing the app. Make sure it doesn't download all the content..Just repairs stuff
> 
> e



That's the problem I'm in, no more repairs left. So I need them to reset the count again.


----------



## Nemoy

Hey @Dirk Ehlert, you plan any time to do a live stream on this as well?


----------



## Nemoy

Zedcars said:


> Finally, after a ton of problems today, I've finally finished my belated launch day video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just hoping Paul is ok about this. Just a bit of light humour, no harm intended.
> 
> Enjoy.



Zed, were you finally able to get the library working?


----------



## Virtuoso

@SpitfireSupport

Found another bug!

*Violins 1 - Tremolo CS articulation - F#4 G4*
Affects all Mics except Mix 1 to varying degrees. F#4 & G4 are much louder on most mics, except Tree and Mono where they are much quieter, and Mix 2 and Out where there's a balance shift from left to right. It's most obvious on Sp. Br.


----------



## Dirk Ehlert

Nemoy said:


> Hey @Dirk Ehlert, you plan any time to do a live stream on this as well?


If someone lets Spitfire know that I'd be willing to do a stream with it if they send it to me


----------



## ed buller

James H said:


> That's the problem I'm in, no more repairs left. So I need them to reset the count again.


Oh crap...i' sorry . That's enormously frustrating !

e


----------



## redlester

ed buller said:


> let's hear it ?
> 
> e



Sorry, am in bed now. 
Can’t recall what these sounded like on Paul’s walkthrough, were they ok on that?


----------



## Zedcars

Nemoy said:


> Zed, were you finally able to get the library working?


Yes, but spent most of the day doing the tribute video! I'm no good at video - wasted time editing it in Cubase, only to discover there are no video export options. WTH!

I'll be playing with it tomorrow though.

Have you got it and is it working for you? Sorry, really hard to remember who's bought it and who hasn't lol


----------



## brenneisen

Virtuoso said:


> @SpitfireSupport
> 
> Found another bug!
> 
> *Violins 1 - Tremolo CS articulation - F#4 G4*
> Affects all Mics except Mix 1 to varying degrees. F#4 & G4 are much louder on most mics, except Tree and Mono where they are much quieter, and Mix 2 and Out where there's a balance shift from left to right. It's most obvious on Sp. Br.








Submit a request – Support Centre







spitfireaudio.zendesk.com


----------



## Virtuoso

Already filed a support ticket, but when I hit submit it just returned a blank page, so I don't know whether it worked or not. Should I submit a support request about the support request page?!


----------



## Pontus Rufelt

Really enjoying BBCSO so far. It has its drawbacks, like any library, particularly some limitations on dynamic range in the legatos. But it's got a lot of really nice material and what strikes me the most is how musical and lively the performances are, and also the cohesion; quite easy to just throw together a little doodle and have it sound lush and full. For me it'll serve as a great bread and butter library. All you need is a few other libraries for the ultra high dynamics and some definition. Great library Spitfire!

A little doodle (only BBCSO).


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Yes, but spent most of the day doing the tribute video!


Now that's commitment to the cause. I doff my cap to you, Zed.


----------



## Fleer

Sound on Sound's review concludes: 
"this is a play-it-yourself collection which experienced composers will relish for its great sound, excellent performances and large, consistent articulation menu."


----------



## Hadrondrift

If you ask me, that Sound on Sound review article seems pre-produced. In any case, the user reviews that are gradually arriving are more informative when it comes to deciding yay or nay or somewhere in between.

(Don't get me wrong, SOS is one of the best original source of information)


----------



## Billy Palmer

Fleer said:


> Sound on Sound's review concludes:
> "this is a play-it-yourself collection which experienced composers will relish for its great sound, excellent performances and large, consistent articulation menu."



Is it online?


----------



## cqd

@Zedcars..thats epic..I was quite excited today too though..
yeah, you'll be able to get a good sound out of the box at a given dynamic..
Quiet to loud not so much maybe..The brass has 2 layers..the strings maybe three..
The strings do sound better than I was expecting from the walkthroughs though..
Hopefully the mystery missing 40 gb or whatever might turn out to be extra dynamic layers after some extra programming..


----------



## Fleer

The SOS review is online. Just checked my subscription issue. I respect and highly appreciate most Sound on Sound reviews. They’re quite deep, like the BBCSO one. For me it’s still the best music mag around.


----------



## Portland

Pontus Rufelt said:


> Really enjoying BBCSO so far. It has its drawbacks, like any library, particularly some limitations on dynamic range in the legatos. But it's got a lot of really nice material and what strikes me the most is how musical and lively the performances are, and also the cohesion; quite easy to just throw together a little doodle and have it sound lush and full. For me it'll serve as a great bread and butter library. All you need is a few other libraries for the ultra high dynamics and some definition. Great library Spitfire!
> 
> A little doodle (only BBCSO).




Hey, nice work! That really sounds fantastic. I'm very excited to go install from my SSD this evening. 

Would you say the limit in legato dynamic range is fairly equal across all sections, or are their some that stand out as a bit weaker?


----------



## ed buller

Not sure about the low foot print claims. I am up to 40g Ram and still have to load up the perc !!!

e


----------



## germancomponist

This library sounds so very good to my ears. Congratulations Spitfire!


----------



## porrasm

Ruffian Price said:


> Sounds like any other in that regard, really. I lowered the velocities for the spiccatos to make it more consistent
> 
> Also goddamn, those little glisses in your Sable test really sell the part.



I still don't have the strings downloaded. Is there someone who has SSO Strings, I'd love a comparison between their performance legatos.


----------



## Virtuoso

Not sure if this is a bug, but I filed a report anyway.

*Trombones (Tenor and Bass) and Contrabass Tuba - Long SFZ articulation*
When chords are played staccatissimo, the note decay cuts dead after a second or so, like it's gated. You can watch the voice count suddenly go to 0. Release envelope might need tweaking.


----------



## John R Wilson

porrasm said:


> I still don't have the strings downloaded. Is there someone who has SSO Strings, I'd love a comparison between their performance legatos.



I'd quite like to hear a comparison between symphonic strings and bbc orchestra legato strings as well. 

How are the instruments in BBC orchestra comparing to the spitfire symphonic orchestra?


----------



## Noeticus

Zedcars said:


> Finally, after a ton of problems today, I've finally finished my belated launch day video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just hoping Paul is ok about this. Just a bit of light humour, no harm intended.
> 
> Enjoy.




This is fucking genius, and it's also about time, as I have also wanted to do an edit just a tiny bit like this!!!


----------



## Noeticus

Also, we are getting closer to 5000 Posts. Ahhhhhhhh!


----------



## MaxOctane

Pontus Rufelt said:


> A little doodle (only BBCSO).




@Pontus Rufelt, this is lovely! The harmonic progression, instrumentation, balance... well done.

The perennial question remains, though: how much of this was BBCSO, and could you have just as easily, more or less, done this with any number of other lib combinations? I'd love to hear your perspective.


----------



## ChrisL

Thanks all for the early demos -- this is looking very tempting!

One question for the early adopters: how consistent are you finding the programming / balance between different patches? I remember in one of the demo videos for CSB, Alex loaded legato patches for a few different instruments, copied the exact same MIDI over to each one, and they all sounded consistent and balanced. Can you do something similar with BBCSO? Or does the MIDI need a lot of tweaking between different patches to sound similar?


----------



## MaxOctane

Noeticus said:


> This is fucking genius, and it's also about time, as I have also wanted to do an edit just a tiny bit like this!!!



Ok, who's gonna volunteer to put together a kontakt or EXS24 instrument of "_I'm very excited today_"?


----------



## cqd

There's no p in BBC..


----------



## AEF

my question regarding BBCSO as a bread and butter library, supplemented by other libraries for size and definition:

doesnt this defeat the whole “recorded by a truly cohesive orchestra in the same space” concept? 

the demos are certainly lovely and its fantastic to hear all the talented composers take it for a spin!


----------



## synthetic

ed buller said:


> yup...127 full MOD...11 basically.............



Turning up the tightness on the horns helps a bit (if anyone hasn't already mentioned that, I'm only catching up to page 224.)


----------



## Karl Feuerstake

Uh, does anyone know how to load multiple instruments per VST and assign them to separate channels?

I can't find a Usermanual in either my downloads or on the website.


----------



## Robert_G

Can you purge samples like kontakt?


----------



## Andrew0568

I'll second what someone else said, that a loading bar would be helpful to know when the patch is fully loaded

I'm away from my keyboard tonight but I've been playing around with loading BBCSO on things I've already made. This is probably a terrible representation, but this is all BBCSO on a MIDI session made in Sibelius:


----------



## Portland

For those of you using PC, how did the installation process go? I'm home now but wondering if I should hold off on installing until some wrinkles get ironed out.


----------



## cqd

I put together a quick template in pro tools.. just one instance per everything pretty much..all a3s, solos leaders etc..went to change the microphones to tree and outriggers on everything and it maxed out my 64g ram.. everything came to a grinding halt..Worse than a big kontakt session.. maybe I'll have a look at the streaming buffers and stuff tomorrow..


----------



## AllanH

I had no issue installing. I downloaded to the default location on C: and then moved the instruments to my SDD. One thing I noticed is that the Spitfire app does not seem to recognize that the library got relocated, even though the Player does just fine with the new location. I'll file a ticket on it tomorrow.


----------



## gtrwll

Downloading took less than I expected, it was around 14 hours. Everything went smoothly, opened it up in Cubase, noodled a bit with the Celli Leader legato patch...and closed the computer. Should have taken a day off from work!


----------



## alfred tapscott

I'm a bit dissapointed, must say. I was hoping for something that would help me get rid of many other kontakt libraries, but doesn't look like.

No sustain pedal control or something on harp or celesta?? come on, they are just one shot samples!! yes, you have damped samples, but no way to truly control what you play there.

Dynamics...just as other Spitfire stuff, no really loud things on brass, guess will stick to CSB/Caspian for brass.

bass drum...pretty bad, no low end.

On the other hand some others sound really nice, but a lot of keyswitching involved sometimes. The legato extended is helpful for some quick sketching, but not for proper midi orchestration, no velocity sensitive on shorts on some of the patches.

funny to hear noises at the end of some samples, like the triangle. Reminds me of old times working at Hans's with their first libraries. 

Don't get me wrong, I guess, for the money it's ok, but was really hoping to dump most of my template, but won't be possible.

The player, though, looks pretty good!


----------



## wbacer

Anyone using BBC with Cubase 10 on a PC?
I've build a lot of expression maps with other libraries and if an instrument articulation indicates C-1 for legato and you set a Cubase expression map to C-1, it works...but with BBC and Spitfire's player if it says Flute legato C-1, to get it to trigger legato you have to set your Cubase expression map to C-2.
Anyone else experience this?


----------



## alfred tapscott

wbacer said:


> Anyone using BBC with Cubase 10 on a PC?
> I've build a lot of expression maps with other libraries and if an instrument articulation indicates C-1 for legato and you set a Cubase expression map to C-1, it works...but with BBC and Spitfire's player if it says Flute legato C-1, to get it to trigger legato you have to set your Cubase expression map to C-2.
> Anyone else experience this?


well, what they call c-1 is totally c-2 in cubase. A bit of a shame, because no way to play from the keyboard then. Yes, can be changed, but manually from each instrument for all the articulations??


----------



## redlester

AEF said:


> my question regarding BBCSO as a bread and butter library, supplemented by other libraries for size and definition:
> 
> doesnt this defeat the whole “recorded by a truly cohesive orchestra in the same space” concept?
> 
> the demos are certainly lovely and its fantastic to hear all the talented composers take it for a spin!



Totally get your drift, but they also advertised it as a “starting point” not a panacea.


----------



## redlester

cqd said:


> I put together a quick template in pro tools.. just one instance per everything pretty much..all a3s, solos leaders etc..went to change the microphones to tree and outriggers on everything and it maxed out my 64g ram.. everything came to a grinding halt..Worse than a big kontakt session.. maybe I'll have a look at the streaming buffers and stuff tomorrow..



I will try Christian’s “minimal” Logic template this weekend on my 16GB machine and report back on what happens.


----------



## redlester

Andrew0568 said:


> I'll second what someone else said, that a loading bar would be helpful to know when the patch is fully loaded



This, very much so.


----------



## redlester

Karl Feuerstake said:


> Uh, does anyone know how to load multiple instruments per VST and assign them to separate channels?
> 
> I can't find a Usermanual in either my downloads or on the website.



Seconded. See my posts from last night about the multi output instances. 

It seems all it does is allow you to route different mic’s to different outputs?


----------



## erikradbo

redlester said:


> I will try Christian’s “minimal” Logic template this weekend on my 16GB machine and report back on what happens.



Where do you find the templates? I only see him link to the hybrid one in the youtube video description.


----------



## Marlon Brown

alfred tapscott said:


> I'm a bit dissapointed, must say. I was hoping for something that would help me get rid of many other kontakt libraries, but doesn't look like.
> 
> No sustain pedal control or something on harp or celesta?? come on, they are just one shot samples!! yes, you have damped samples, but no way to truly control what you play there.
> 
> Dynamics...just as other Spitfire stuff, no really loud things on brass, guess will stick to CSB/Caspian for brass.
> 
> bass drum...pretty bad, no low end.
> 
> On the other hand some others sound really nice, but a lot of keyswitching involved sometimes. The legato extended is helpful for some quick sketching, but not for proper midi orchestration, no velocity sensitive on shorts on some of the patches.
> 
> funny to hear noises at the end of some samples, like the triangle. Reminds me of old times working at Hans's with their first libraries.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I guess, for the money it's ok, but was really hoping to dump most of my template, but won't be possible.
> 
> The player, though, looks pretty good!


There is simply no such thing as a perfect library or the end all library. Each library has there own thing and style and you take what's good and leave the rest.


----------



## babylonwaves

@Karl Feuerstake: you cannot load multiple instruments inside this one instrument and access those through different midi channels. 
@redlester: the output options in logic are extra audio busses. you can use those to isolate mics from the stereo mix or surround purposes.


----------



## redlester

erikradbo said:


> Where do you find the templates? I only see him link to the hybrid one in the youtube video description.



Ah ok. Maybe it’s not all available just yet?


----------



## redlester

babylonwaves said:


> @Karl Feuerstake: you cannot load multiple instruments inside this one instrument and access those through different midi channels.
> @redlester: the output options in logic are extra audio busses. you can use those to isolate mics from the stereo mix or surround purposes.



Yes that’s what I gathered. I wonder if they will update things like HZS and EWC to allow similar. As well as NKS functionality which is great with BBC.


----------



## John R Wilson

alfred tapscott said:


> I'm a bit dissapointed, must say. I was hoping for something that would help me get rid of many other kontakt libraries, but doesn't look like.
> 
> No sustain pedal control or something on harp or celesta?? come on, they are just one shot samples!! yes, you have damped samples, but no way to truly control what you play there.
> 
> Dynamics...just as other Spitfire stuff, no really loud things on brass, guess will stick to CSB/Caspian for brass.
> 
> bass drum...pretty bad, no low end.
> 
> On the other hand some others sound really nice, but a lot of keyswitching involved sometimes. The legato extended is helpful for some quick sketching, but not for proper midi orchestration, no velocity sensitive on shorts on some of the patches.
> 
> funny to hear noises at the end of some samples, like the triangle. Reminds me of old times working at Hans's with their first libraries.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I guess, for the money it's ok, but was really hoping to dump most of my template, but won't be possible.
> 
> The player, though, looks pretty good!




Is there no way to have sustain peday control on the harp or celeste at all?


----------



## Karl Feuerstake

babylonwaves said:


> @Karl Feuerstake: you cannot load multiple instruments inside this one instrument and access those through different midi channels.
> @redlester: the output options in logic are extra audio busses. you can use those to isolate mics from the stereo mix or surround purposes.



What? So if my DAW has a limit to VST's that I can load up, I'm basically fucked? That's terrible!


----------



## CT

Does anyone know yet whether or not it's possible to delete particular mic positions without compromising the whole thing?


----------



## Pontus Rufelt

Another sloppy little doodle. The solo woodwinds are lovely and musical!


----------



## John R Wilson

Pontus Rufelt said:


> Another sloppy little doodle. The solo woodwinds are lovely and musical!




Sounds lovely and lovely piece. What mic positions did you use?


----------



## bricop

Pontus Rufelt said:


> Another sloppy little doodle. The solo woodwinds are lovely and musical!



beautiful!


----------



## bricop

Question about download: i have a connection of 110mbps but I've only been getting between 6-8mbps download speed since midday yesterday. Would I get a faster connection if I quit and reconnected? Afraid to do try it in case I mess up the download. At this rate I'll be lucky to have it all down by Sunday. Thanks


----------



## al_net77

bricop said:


> Question about download: i have a connection of 110mbps but I've only been getting between 6-8mbps download speed since midday yesterday. Would I get a faster connection if I quit and reconnected? Afraid to do try it in case I mess up the download. At this rate I'll be lucky to have it all down by Sunday. Thanks



You can stop and restart download without lose data. I have done so yesterday


----------



## alfred tapscott

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Is there no way to have sustain peday control on the harp or celeste at all?


not that I can see. They are only plucked one shot samples. release trigger just after note on.


----------



## xanderscores

Forgive me if that has been discussed before (230 pages are a lot to read through):
Is no one missing a grand piano? In my compositions, piano always plays an important part, doubling the bass, paired with woodwinds, adding sparkling figures in the upper register - it's so versatile I could never do with out it. Yet it seems it's not part of the BBCSO. Or did I miss something? I can't imagine a symphony orchestra without grand piano.


----------



## widekeys

Pontus Rufelt said:


> Another sloppy little doodle. The solo woodwinds are lovely and musical!



Thank you for another short demo! Is there now actually a bass flute in the delivered product? I thought the BBCSO was sayed to have some "surprise extras" upon release?


----------



## did

[/QUOTE]


Pontus Rufelt said:


> Another sloppy little doodle. The solo woodwinds are lovely and musical!



Hello Pontus Rufelt,
thanks for this nice demo ! Perhaps if you have time , it would be cool to have the same piece but only with closed mic. I think we are several to need to know how the library works with the driest possible sound...
Anyway, thanks again for giving example.


----------



## Zedcars

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Is there no way to have sustain peday control on the harp or celeste at all?


I know Cubase has a Logical Editor preset that allows you to convert pedal CC’s to lengthen the notes accordingly. So a workaround would be to use a piano VST or a third party harp library to record it then switch to the BBCSSO and use the LE preset to convert the CC’s.

I anticipate this missing functionality will be addressed in an update.


----------



## Zedcars

xanderscores said:


> Forgive me if that has been discussed before (230 pages are a lot to read through):
> Is no one missing a grand piano? In my compositions, piano always plays an important part, doubling the bass, paired with woodwinds, adding sparkling figures in the upper register - it's so versatile I could never do with out it. Yet it seems it's not part of the BBCSO. Or did I miss something? I can't imagine a symphony orchestra without grand piano.


No piano is present (yet).


----------



## Bluemount Score

I tried out some brass patches yesterday, everything else was still downloading and will follow later today or tomorrow.
At first I was a little shocked that one instance of BBCSO took 3 - 4 GB RAM immediately. But each more instance only took less than 100MB, so I guess it's fine for me even without MIDI out routing.
I also have the issue that I can't get a sound out of the library when loading a new instrument at first, it appears it is still loading samples in the background, a process you cannot see in this new player. This should definitely be fixed. Otherwise, I didn't yet spend enough time to give proper feedback on the sample quality and such.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Karl Feuerstake said:


> What? So if my DAW has a limit to VST's that I can load up, I'm basically fucked? That's terrible!


Which DAW is that?


----------



## Sovereign

There's a bug in the flute legato when going from non vibrato to vibrato, the middle/second dynamic NV layer appears to be noticeably less loud than the corresponding vibrato layer. It's causing slight volume dips (see quick test below at 0:11s).

I hope SFA is watching this thread and will fix these small bugs.


----------



## vdk-john




----------



## Zedcars

Zedcars said:


> I know Cubase has a Logical Editor preset that allows you to convert pedal CC’s to lengthen the notes accordingly. So a workaround would be to use a piano VST or a third party harp library to record it then switch to the BBCSSO and use the LE preset to convert the CC’s.
> 
> I anticipate this missing functionality will be addressed in an update.


Actually, just thinking...it might be possible to set that up live using the Logical Editor as a MIDI plugin so it lengthens the notes when CC64=127. I’ll give it a try later and report back.

EDIT: Ignore the above. Wrong end of stick!


----------



## porrasm

Bluemount Score said:


> I tried out some brass patches yesterday, everything else was still downloading and will follow later today or tomorrow.
> At first I was a little shocked that one instance of BBCSO took 3 - 4 GB RAM immediately. But each more instance only took less than 100MB, so I guess it's fine for me even without MIDI out routing.
> I also have the issue that I can't get a sound out of the library when loading a new instrument at first, it appears it is still loading samples in the background, a process you cannot see in this new player. This should definitely be fixed. Otherwise, I didn't yet spend enough time to give proper feedback on the sample quality and such.


I have the same loading problem. I thought it was just my HDD but perhaps it's a bug if others are getting it as well.


----------



## widekeys

Zedcars said:


> Actually, just thinking...it might be possible to set that up live using the Logical Editor as a MIDI plugin so it keeps the notes held when using CC64. I’ll give it a try later and report back.


I thought the problem was, that the samples on the celeste/harp are startet with note-on messages but they don't end on note-off or sustain-off?


----------



## Fry777

vdk-john said:


>




He demonstrates the lack of bite (or bug ?) with the Horns staccatissimos 
@ed buller is this similar to what you're getting ?


----------



## Bluemount Score

porrasm said:


> I have the same loading problem. I thought it was just my HDD but perhaps it's a bug if others are getting it as well.


I was still on my HDD as well, gonna switch to my external SSD and see what happens later today.


----------



## Zedcars

widekeys said:


> I thought the problem was, that the samples on the celeste/harp are startet with note-on messages but they don't end on note-off or sustain-off?


You’re right. Sorry, I misunderstood the issue. Only just got around to trying it myself.


----------



## redlester

Bluemount Score said:


> I also have the issue that I can't get a sound out of the library when loading a new instrument at first, it appears it is still loading samples in the background, a process you cannot see in this new player.



This was very much my experience as stated last night. Some of the legato patches take a very long time to fully load, and I get release of notes sounding “gated” for a little while until it completes loading. All probably due to the spec of my machine and disc drive? Is anyone with a “beast” of a machine experiencing this?


----------



## Bluemount Score

redlester said:


> This was very much my experience as stated last night. Some of the legato patches take a very long time to fully load, and I get release of notes sounding “gated” for a little while until it completes loading. All probably due to the spec of my machine and disc drive? Is anyone with a “beast” of a machine experiencing this?


i7 8700k should handle this. I only got 16GB RAM but I don't see this being the problem. As said before, it could rather be the slow HDD I was using.
I hope you can copy the complete BBCSO folder to an external SSD just like that and get it working.


----------



## Robin

I'm continously baffled by the fact that all Spitfire section string libraries I know of have a hard limit for the Violins at the c 3 octaves above middle c. BBC seems to be no exception or can anybody confirm otherwise?


----------



## AndyP

Karl Feuerstake said:


> What? So if my DAW has a limit to VST's that I can load up, I'm basically fucked? That's terrible!


Solution for this: Vienna Ensemble Pro


----------



## staypuft

This is going to sound harsh but I can't sit here and ignore the fact that some broke composer is about to spend all his-her savings on this library.

I'm feeling underwhelmed after paying 750$. My suggestion is that if you have other libraries, save your money. If you don't have any libraries, buy Nucleus or subscribe to EastWest instead. BBCSO sounds great but it isn't better than any other libraries, it's just a different flavor....and one that you can easily replicate with CSS or CSB.

There are too many shortcomings despite the great room tone. The horns sound like mf at their highest value. Annoying intonation issues all over the sample pool // and we can't fix them ourselves like in Kontakt. Legato bumps and volume bursts, release problems, notes getting cut, *WAY* more than I can tolerate from a premium library. Of course, I could will ignore the issues and write music but if I knew beforehand the mess that is to use this I would have saved my money. There's nothing groundbreaking about this library and the "BBC sound" is not worth the hassle. Spitfire didn't hire me to beta test their product. Quite the opposite, I gave them a lot of dough. Since I'm not a dick, I'm preparing a long document that will be sent to Spitfire, but I highly doubt that they will fix even 10% of it. SSO hello?

You get what you paid for. Dedicated libraries are expensive for a reason // the good ones at least. If this was priced at 350$ it would a no brainer purchase just for the template variation, but at soon 1000$ you are better off buying Nucleus, CSS\\CSB, Nashville Strings......

Black Friday is just around the corner, think smart.


----------



## Jannoh

staypuft said:


> This is going to sound harsh but I can't sit here and ignore the fact that some broke composer is about to spend all his-her savings on this library.
> 
> I'm feeling underwhelmed after paying 750$. My suggestion is that if you have other libraries, save your money. If you don't have any libraries, buy Nucleus or subscribe to EastWest instead. BBCSO sounds great but it isn't better than any other libraries, it's just a different flavor....and one that you can easily replicate with CSS or CSB.
> 
> There are too many shortcomings despite the great room tone. The horns sound like mf at their highest value. Annoying intonation issues all over the sample pool // and we can't fix them ourselves like in Kontakt. Legato bumps and volume bursts, release problems, notes getting cut, *WAY* more than I can tolerate from a premium library. Of course, I could will ignore the issues and write music but if I knew beforehand the mess that is to use this I would have saved my money. There's nothing groundbreaking about this library and the "BBC sound" is not worth the hassle. Spitfire didn't hire me to beta test their product. Quite the opposite, I gave them a lot of dough. Since I'm not a dick, I'm preparing a long document that will be sent to Spitfire, but I highly doubt that they will fix even 10% of it. SSO hello?
> 
> You get what you paid for. Dedicated libraries are expensive for a reason // the good ones at least. If this was priced at 350$ it would a no brainer purchase just for the template variation, but at soon 1000$ you are better off buying Nucleus, CSS\\CSB, Nashville Strings......
> 
> Black Friday is just around the corner, think smart.



I'll second that. My initial joy was quickly dampened by the many technical issues i encountered while playing around with all the sections.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

What is the largest RAM draw people are seeing with Many mics used and a full template? 

Hopefully , as this is on topic, i am not breaking any rules and apologise if i am, but would remind people i am selling 128gb of RAM over at the classified if they are finding they want more memory for this the huge Spitfire BBC SO templates. Please remove this comment if it is against house rules


----------



## Sovereign

staypuft said:


> You get what you paid for. Dedicated libraries are expensive for a reason // the good ones at least. If this was priced at 350$ it would a no brainer purchase just for the template variation, but at soon 1000$ you are better off buying Nucleus, CSS\\CSB, Nashville Strings......


This is extremely dishonest as, setting aside potential bugs and issues, nucleus does not even come close in terms of articulations. The cinematic studio series is a better contender but it's most certainly not cheaper. The suggestion that bbcso should cost less than Nucleus is a joke.


----------



## M.Ramillon

Well, I'm not going to sell my VSLs right now, even though I like the general sound of BBC SO.


----------



## Leo

Sovereign said:


> This is extremely dishonest as, setting aside potential bugs and issues, nucleus does not even come close in terms of articulations. The cinematic studio series is a better contender but it's most certainly not cheaper. The suggestion that bbcso should cost less than Nucleus is a joke.


Dishonest? it's his opinion. 
And his opinion has the same weight as yours.
For me is dishonest, when I can't re-sell my license for example Spitfire solo strings, is not my cup of coffee, even though I bought them for the "cheap" price 190-.eur.
Certainly they also have a nice libraries Olafur etc, but when SA comes to their Frankenstein type legato, I don't like them. In this view is Nucleus, Jagger for some people better.


----------



## AndyP

Hmmm, interesting to read what problems there are.
My download will be ready sometime tonight, after about 30 hours.

Maybe a collecting thread for issues makes sense, especially since I would be interested to know if there are differences between PC and Mac, delivered SSDs and download users, DAWs.

This thread has become too big and confusing for me to list technical problems.


----------



## Creoin

The samples take a moment to load. There's a flashing "LED" at the top left of the GUI, when that goes to green, it's loaded in. There's a video about this with the manual videos. You can play before it loads, but sounds will be missing.

There's some scary posts about RAM usage. I've loaded all the instruments into Cubase now, just one mic, and all articulations, and it comes to just under 12GB RAM (default settings). (I guess that means 12GB per mic you load? If you load all articulations)


----------



## staypuft

Sovereign said:


> This is extremely dishonest as, setting aside potential bugs and issues, nucleus does not even come close in terms of articulations. The cinematic studio series is a better contender but it's most certainly not cheaper. The suggestion that bbcso should cost less than Nucleus is a joke.



I would be dishonest if came here trying to justify my purchase. I'm blessed to have the means to buy any library I want and not be attached to them. I don't suffer from after-purchase guilt trip. You may not agree with me but I'm only trying to help......we're on the same side believe it or not.

I work in a highly competitive environment and every single time I have to stop to fix some stupid thing, I'm losing money. The math is simple and at its current state, BBCSO isn't worth 750$. More like 350$ sorry. Look we came to a point where all libraries are "deeply sampled" and sound great in the right hands. Nucleus has all the bread and butter articulations you need for any serious gig. And it works fast, which is the most important aspect if you want to make any money in this industry.

1000$ can buy CCS, CSB, Infinite Winds, PerfSamples Oceania, True Strike. KILLER template.


----------



## Sovereign

Leo said:


> Dishonest? it's his opinion.
> And his opinion has the same weight as yours.


Opinions are not sacred and can be objectively wrong. You seem to have an axe to grind with SFA.


----------



## John R Wilson

Creoin said:


> The samples take a moment to load. There's a flashing "LED" at the top left of the GUI, when that goes to green, it's loaded in. There's a video about this with the manual videos. You can play before it loads, but sounds will be missing.
> 
> There's some scary posts about RAM usage. I've loaded all the instruments into Cubase now, just one mic, and all articulations, and it comes to just under 12GB RAM (default settings). (I guess that means 12GB per mic you load? If you load all articulations)




Is ram effected much if you make another track with another instance of something that has already been loaded. So would 5 violin 1 instances with all articulations loaded take up more ram than 1 track with violins 1 with all articulations loaded?


----------



## MikeRolls

Leo said:


> Dishonest? it's his opinion.
> And his opinion has the same weight as yours.
> For me is dishonest, when I can't re-sell my license for example Spitfire solo strings, is not my cup of coffee, even though I bought them for the "cheap" price 190-.eur.
> ..



Just wondering on your reason for wanting to sell Solo Strings? It's something I've been looking at, but I'm wondering if it would be pointless to get it as well as BCCSO..


----------



## Sovereign

staypuft said:


> I would be dishonest if came here trying to justify my purchase.


Ah no, this one won't fly. You're arguing here your poorly argued examples - of why BBCSO is only worth $350 - are above criticism, because of your criticism. That's a roundabout I won't agree to get on, since it is fallacious. 



> Nucleus has all the bread and butter articulations you need for any serious gig. And it works fast, which is the most important aspect if you want to make any money in this industry.


Nucleus is a beginner library, with a seriously limited articulation list. Pretending otherwise means you are not making or willing to make a fair assessment. I'm not the one trying to argue BBCSO has less value compared to Nucleus, you are.


----------



## axb312

So, to all those who own the library? Are the 20 mics necessary?

Would you rather have the 20 mics or more detailed samples (in terms of disk space...)?


----------



## Creoin

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Is ram effected much if you make another track with another instance of something that has already been loaded. So would 5 violin 1 instances with all articulations loaded take up more ram than 1 track with violins 1 with all articulations loaded?



I'm not too sure, but as I was loading each instrument, Violins 1 popped up as default and it didn't seem to load again. So I would guess it doesn't use much more RAM. Also, you can edit the articulations per instance, in case you want to do one articulation per instance.

I tried to load more Violas just now and it didn't seem to load anything more, but the RAM seemed to go up about 200MB for the new instance.


----------



## Patrick.K

alfred tapscott said:


> Totally get your drift, but they also advertised it as a “starting point” not a panacea.


A starting point for 900 $...!I don't know to buy or not to buy...or waiting for bugs corrections or take a look on others library ?


----------



## Celestial Aeon

My two cents: 

I don't think there ever will be a be all end all library that would allow a broke composer produce everything he needs. Take any library and you will either find glitches and problems that make it less than perfect and usually the more the library has to offer, the more glitches you run into. Specialized libraries are easier and safer because they offer less and focus more.

If you are in a situation where you really need to be careful what library to purchase then only way to go about it is to research carefully and think what will be your current sound you aim for and produce to hopefully get to a point where the music you create brings you stable income which eventually allows you to purchase more options with less careful mentality.

That being said for some composers BBC can be that first library for sure even with the problems. The thing is - does it offer the sound you will be happy with or not? Nucleus sounds way different. CSS sounds quite different etc. There is no exact replica for any library, all libraries have their distinct sound, the differences are either noticeable or less noticeable but still there.

In my opinion the most important thing with any library is: does it inspire you. I have run onto libraries that technically are brilliant but for some reason or other just don't work when I try to play them and use them. It's an intuitive thing. Hence you only know when you finally get to use them.

For me, BBC offers inspiration and I will definitely use it in various ways, but I don't believe I will ever end up in a situation where I would only use specific libraries. Each library gives options and the more options you have the easier it is to look for inspiration.

Entirely different question is what is the right price tag for what library. For some the price doesn't play that big of a part and to others it is the most important question. I don't think there are right objective answers to be found.


----------



## jamwerks

ed buller said:


> Not sure about the low foot print claims. I am up to 40g Ram and still have to load up the perc !!!
> 
> e


With 1 mic position per instrument?


----------



## Patrick.K

AEF said:


> my question regarding BBCSO as a bread and butter library, supplemented by other libraries for size and definition:
> 
> doesnt this defeat the whole “recorded by a truly cohesive orchestra in the same space” concept?


That is the question !...


----------



## ERIC VALETTE

There's actually an update avaible for the BBCSO plugin and for woodwinds section on the spitfire app... but no details on what this fixes...


----------



## Patrick.K

Pontus Rufelt said:


> lovely and musical!


lovely and musical ! Beautiful, but the Orchestral Tools Woodwinds are also beautiful
I do not know what to think anymore ...


----------



## Zero&One

ERIC VALETTE said:


> There's actually an update avaible for the BBCSO plugin and for woodwinds section on the spitfire app... but no details on what this fixes... for the woodwinds, it seems that this has updated the .nks files for piccolo, flute solo and flutes a3 patches...



This update fixed my broken plugin. It was promised yesterday lunch time.

Shameful that I only learn that this fix is available on a forum. Still no replies from SA, either via Support, FB page or here. Literally nothing.
Not impressed, if a future update breaks this plugin again... do I just sit for another day hoping vi-c inform me again. And a total waste of money buying the SSD.

Thanks anyway @ERIC VALETTE for your post.


----------



## al_net77

FYI, the 1.0.2 plugin update does not works on Win10, crashes the DAW (also VEPro) when loaded.
Anyone knows how to reinstall an older version with Spitfire?


----------



## bricop

Brass downloaded and I love it!!


----------



## ridgero

al_net77 said:


> FYI, the 1.0.2 plugin update does not works on Win10, crashes the DAW (also VEPro) when loaded.
> Anyone knows how to reinstall an older version with Spitfire?



That doesn’t mean it won’t work on other Win 10 computers.


----------



## al_net77

ridgero said:


> That doesn’t mean it won’t work on other Win 10 computers.



Does it works for you? Since the dump says it is an heap corruption exception located on some kind of image loading I can suppose it's not only me...
Anyway, is there a way to reinstall old version? I will ask to support, but I think they will take some time to reply in this days...


----------



## Zedcars

James H said:


> This update fixed my broken plugin. It was promised yesterday lunch time.
> 
> Shameful that I only learn that this fix is available on a forum. Still no replies from SA, either via Support, FB page or here. Literally nothing.
> Not impressed, if a future update breaks this plugin again... do I just sit for another day hoping vi-c inform me again. And a total waste of money buying the SSD.
> 
> Thanks anyway @ERIC VALETTE for your post.


Gosh, really surprised about that. My experience was more positive but if that was me I’d also be pissed at them. They should apologise at the very least for your situation and maybe even offer some kind of recompense.


----------



## Zero&One

ridgero said:


> That doesn’t mean it won’t work on other Win 10 computers.



But people need to be aware as we normally just click update these days.
Personally, I wouldn't update or wait until at least a few users report it's fine. Not worth the gamble at this time

I'll be on 1.0.2 for at least 6 years


----------



## Sovereign

ERIC VALETTE said:


> There's actually an update avaible for the BBCSO plugin and for woodwinds section on the spitfire app... but no details on what this fixes...


Installed the update but the plugin still says 1.0.0? Should it say 1.0.2?


----------



## Bluemount Score

James H said:


> But people need to be aware as we normally just click update these days.
> Personally, I wouldn't update or wait until at least a few users report it's fine. Not worth the gamble at this time
> 
> I'll be on 1.0.2 for at least 6 years


That's very true. However I guess that 1.0.0 is most likely to be the most dangerous version of all.
We all are testing a Beta.


----------



## Patrick.K

Bluemount Score said:


> This is going to sound harsh but I can't sit here and ignore the fact that some broke composer is about to spend all his-her savings on this library.
> 
> I'm feeling underwhelmed after paying 750$. My suggestion is that if you have other libraries, save your money. If you don't have any libraries, buy Nucleus or subscribe to EastWest instead. BBCSO sounds great but it isn't better than any other libraries, it's just a different flavor....and one that you can easily replicate with CSS or CSB.
> 
> There are too many shortcomings despite the great room tone. The horns sound like mf at their highest value. Annoying intonation issues all over the sample pool // and we can't fix them ourselves like in Kontakt. Legato bumps and volume bursts, release problems, notes getting cut, *WAY* more than I can tolerate from a premium library. Of course, I could will ignore the issues and write music but if I knew beforehand the mess that is to use this I would have saved my money. There's nothing groundbreaking about this library and the "BBC sound" is not worth the hassle. Spitfire didn't hire me to beta test their product. Quite the opposite, I gave them a lot of dough. Since I'm not a dick, I'm preparing a long document that will be sent to Spitfire, but I highly doubt that they will fix even 10% of it. SSO hello?
> 
> You get what you paid for. Dedicated libraries are expensive for a reason // the good ones at least. If this was priced at 350$ it would a no brainer purchase just for the template variation, but at soon 1000$ you are better off buying Nucleus, CSS\\CSB, Nashville Strings......
> 
> Black Friday is just around the corner, think smart.


Me who thought I had finally found a coherent library "All in one" without worrying about additional reverb, or change the pan eq etc ... just concentrate on the music ... I'm a little disappointed to read this comment, me who thought to invest too...

Thank you for your honesty and very sorry for you .


----------



## Bluemount Score

Patrick9152 said:


> Me who thought I had finally found a coherent library "All in one" without worrying about additional reverb, or change the pan eq etc ... just concentrate on the music ... I'm a little disappointed to read this comment, me who thought to invest too...
> 
> Thank you for your honesty and very sorry for you .


You quoted me but I didn't wrote this post :^)


----------



## Patrick.K

Bluemount Score said:


> That's very true. However I guess that 1.0.0 is most likely to be the most dangerous version of all.
> We all are testing a Beta.


----------



## Leo

Bluemount Score said:


> You quoted me but I didn't wrote this post :^)


oh no, the devil comes to us, you lost your identity!


----------



## Zero&One

Sovereign said:


> Installed the update but the plugin still says 1.0.0? Should it say 1.0.2?



Mine shows 1.0.2 on the GUI
HZStrings also reports as Not Installed (but works), so...


----------



## Zedcars

Bluemount Score said:


> You quoted me but I didn't wrote this post :^)


Glad you said that, thought I was going bananas. Lol


----------



## Bluemount Score

Zedcars said:


> Glad you said that, thought I was going bananas. Lol


Nah, I still have barely tested anything from BBCSO and am still full of hope and curiosity


----------



## Patrick.K

Bluemount Score said:


> You quoted me but I didn't wrote this post :^)


Oh, i am sorry, it's a mistake !.


----------



## ERIC VALETTE

Sovereign said:


> Installed the update but the plugin still says 1.0.0? Should it say 1.0.2?


yes after restarting the DAW, but after a few minutes, the plugin totally crashed and it is currently impossible to restart. It seems that the update is rather unstable, as some other users have also noticed ... any idea @SpitfireSupport ? Thanks!


----------



## Patrick.K

I think that Spitfire audio will correct in a few weeks, they are victims of their success, which gives me time to think again ...


----------



## Sovereign

James H said:


> Mine shows 1.0.2 on the GUI
> HZStrings also reports as Not Installed (but works), so...


Okay, rebooted, shows now. But now getting error #3, shows no patches whatsoever. Gonna try a repair. Edit: well that fixed it for now.


----------



## al_net77

Sovereign said:


> Okay, rebooted, shows now. But now getting error #3, shows no patches whatsoever. Gonna try a repair.



Same here. Repair does not fix.


----------



## AndyP

Sovereign said:


> Okay, rebooted, shows now. But now getting error #3, shows no patches whatsoever. Gonna try a repair. Edit: well that fixed it for now.


Mac or PC?


----------



## Sovereign

AndyP said:


> Mac or PC?


Mac. You?


----------



## ERIC VALETTE

al_net77 said:


> Same here. Repair does not fix.


Same thing here.


al_net77 said:


> Same here. Repair does not fix.


Same thing here. I used the "locate" function of the spitfire application to fix the "error 3" problem (it works!) but after that, the plug in crashed at each launch within the DAW (Cubase 10, Windows 10).


----------



## SpitfireSupport

ERIC VALETTE said:


> yes after restarting the DAW, but after a few minutes, the plugin totally crashed and it is currently impossible to restart. It seems that the update is rather unstable, as some other users have also noticed ... any idea @SpitfireSupport ? Thanks!



So sorry, we released an update (1.0.2) that caused this. We will be releasing 1.0.3 in a few hours to fix the problem


----------



## redlester

James H said:


> This update fixed my broken plugin. It was promised yesterday lunch time.
> 
> Shameful that I only learn that this fix is available on a forum. Still no replies from SA, either via Support, FB page or here. Literally nothing.
> Not impressed, if a future update breaks this plugin again... do I just sit for another day hoping vi-c inform me again. And a total waste of money buying the SSD.
> 
> Thanks anyway @ERIC VALETTE for your post.



This is really unusual in my experience, every time I've ever needed to contact them they have been really responsive.

I do share the frustration regarding the update though - have said before on this site, I really wish they would send e-mails out for all updates to alert people, and also make it clearer precisely what is being updated.


----------



## ridgero

It‘s funny how quickly a product is convicted, btw it's just 24 hours released. Everything is thrown into a pot here. The overloading of the servers, the resulting problems with the download, the application and the obvious bugs seem to have triggered a certain emotionality. In addition there is one or the other dissatisfaction with certain samples, layers, layout, functions. As a result, the entire product is condemned.

It is impossible that any of you know BBCSO already so well to have an overall impression at all, max. scratched the surface.

It is blatant to see how close super and bad are each other. With the hype in this forum, you have certainly not done a favor. Your initial expectations were not fulfilled.

It doesn‘t matter if it's good or bad in the end, but give yourself the freedom and test the program for two weeks and then make your final judgment.

Just my 2 cents


----------



## Zero&One

redlester said:


> This is really unusual in my experience, every time I've ever needed to contact them they have been really responsive.



Me too, and up until they "went dark" yesterday the support guys were great. No beef with the poor support staff, they are just doing their job. Props to Jack.
I do hope they take lessons from this, like giving early adopters 1 week advance use with the disclaimer "there will be issues during this week as we need to test various systems & plugin releases". 

I'm more annoyed I basically spunkered £200 on a SSD for no reason.


----------



## Fleer

Now I know we’ll get to 5000 posts for sure.


----------



## redlester

James H said:


> I'm more annoyed I basically spunkered £200 on a SSD for no reason.



I can understand why. I was going to say "let the reason be love" but suspect it's too soon for joking about it?


----------



## Zedcars

This thread before release vs after release:


----------



## mikeh-375

Oh dear, I'm feeling for you guys atm, SFA have got some work to do.


----------



## cqd

After installing the update on windows 10, now pro tools won't start at all..


----------



## Sovereign

Robin said:


> I'm continously baffled by the fact that all Spitfire section string libraries I know of have a hard limit for the Violins at the c 3 octaves above middle c. BBC seems to be no exception or can anybody confirm otherwise?


No you're right, this seems to be the case. That is a bit of a bummer if you want those high notes.


----------



## Zero&One

redlester said:


> I can understand why. I was going to say "let the reason be love" but suspect it's too soon for joking about it?



I half expected this meme to appear... so I'll post it


----------



## Creoin

Robin said:


> I'm continously baffled by the fact that all Spitfire section string libraries I know of have a hard limit for the Violins at the c 3 octaves above middle c. BBC seems to be no exception or can anybody confirm otherwise?



I'm not sure how playable this range is in reality, but you can access those notes with the harmonics articulation (right up to the end of the keyboard).


----------



## Alex Fraser

Fleer said:


> Now I know we’ll get to 5000 posts for sure.


<Straps self in..>


----------



## Robin

Creoin said:


> I'm not sure how playable this range is in reality, but you can access those notes with the harmonics articulation (right up to the end of the keyboard).



Notes above that c are constantly called for in film music literature. In fact up to the Eb is pretty common. Harmonics don't have the same substance of sound and are considerably softer so they are no option.


----------



## Sovereign

Am I hearing things, or are the violas legato with the modwheel completely up way softer than for example the violins legatos? Can someone confirm?


----------



## Zedcars

Sovereign said:


> Am I hearing things, or are the violas legato with the modwheel completely up way softer than for example the violins legatos? Can someone confirm?


Agreed - they seem softer and lower in volume to me compared to the Violins 1.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Solo strings for me has a very particular tone, which will be to taste. The virtuoso legato patches are great fun to play, but really push Kontakt , and will cause glitches on all but the highest settings. 

I personally quite like them, but are COMPLETELY different in character to say, the VIR Harmonic Soul series.


----------



## jaketanner

cqd said:


> went to change the microphones to tree and outriggers on everything and it maxed out my 64g ram..


That's not good. Isn't there an option to purge samples like in Kontakt? That was one of the best features...all libraries could literally be sitting with zero samples loaded until needed.


----------



## Cat

Spitfire!!! Breakthrough, revolutionary library!!

IT IS THE FIRST PLUGIN IN YEARS TO CRASH VEPRO!!! It makes it poof( disappears). Unbelievable!

You guys didn’t try it on windows 10 yet, correct?


----------



## AndyP

Sovereign said:


> Mac. You?


Mac. My download isn't finished yet, so I won't be able to test it until tonight. But if there are so many problems I think about waiting with potential updates.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Cat said:


> Spitfire!!! Breakthrough, revolutionary library!!
> 
> IT IS THE FIRST PLUGIN IN YEARS TO CRASH VEPRO!!! It makes it poof( disappears). Unbelievable!
> 
> You guys didn’t try it on windows 10 yet, correct?



I believe this would be related to the update to 1.0.2 and should be fixed when we update to 1.0.3. I will let this thread know when that happens (should be very soon)


----------



## AndyP

I understand that after so long of waiting and so many announcements you are disappointed when so many problems occur, but that is the risk you take as a first time customer and first time user. 
after having to wait for weeks for the release, it won't kill anyone if there are still 1-2 days left for corrections.
I can also wait a few days and use my other library until then.


----------



## Cat

SpitfireSupport said:


> I believe this would be related to the update to 1.0.2 and should be fixed when we update to 1.0.3. I will let this thread know when that happens (should be very soon)



Okay, that is good news, thank you.


----------



## MartinH.

There are* 5 threads* on this library on the first page of "sample talk" alone... it's getting ridiculous. I think it's time for a dedicated spitfire subforum that uses a [tag] system to filter threads by library.


----------



## Bluemount Score

MartinH. said:


> There are* 5 threads* on this library on the first page of "sample talk" alone... it's getting ridiculous. I think it's time for a dedicated spitfire subforum that uses a [tag] system to filter threads by library.


Right? These are best signs that Spitfires marketing strategy was a full success


----------



## Cat

Is it going to be soon as in today, or in a few days?



SpitfireSupport said:


> I believe this would be related to the update to 1.0.2 and should be fixed when we update to 1.0.3. I will let this thread know when that happens (should be very soon)


----------



## Bluemount Score

Cat said:


> Is it going to be soon as in today, or in a few days?


Just tell us if it's more a "when is Paul gonna be very excited again - soon", or a "when is SSO getting it's promised update - soon"


----------



## fahl5

Cat said:


> Is it going to be soon as in today, or in a few days?


I dont know what you have done to crahs VE with Spitfire BBC SO. I don't have any problem at all to load BBC SO in VE Pro 7. with Version 1.0.1, but it is true 1.0.2 crashes here VE Pro aswell as Cubase 10.

Is there any chance to went back to 1.0.1 until the crash-Problem is fixed?


----------



## star.keys

MikeRolls said:


> Just wondering on your reason for wanting to sell Solo Strings? It's something I've been looking at, but I'm wondering if it would be pointless to get it as well as BCCSO..


I want to ideally sell (or give it away free and free up my disk space), it it was allowed... very harsh and scratchy sound of violins, legato in general simple doesn’t cut it for me and that over hyped Viola is .. better not to comment


----------



## fahl5

star.keys said:


> I want to ideally sell (or give it away free and free up my disk space), it it was allowed... very harsh and scratchy sound of violins, legato in general simple doesn’t cut it for me and that over hyped Viola is .. better not to comment


Are you talking about Sacconi String Quartet or about the Spitfire Solo Strings, (which in my humble opinion are defenitly a step forward compared to Sacconi and much more useful) keep ion mind, that Solostrings are meant to be more or less the First Chair Soloists for the SSO-Strings, so to be fair, one should judge how they blend with SSO-Strings. However the Soloviolin seem to me much better than the one from Sacconi (which in my impression was indeed a bit harsh & scratchy).


----------



## star.keys

fahl5 said:


> Are you talking about Sacconi String Quartet or about the Spitfire Solo Strings, (which in my hamble opinion are defenitly a step forward compared to Sacconi and much more useful) keep ion mind, that Solostrings are meant to be more or less the First Chair Soloists for the SSO-Strings, so to be fair, one should judge how they blend with SSO-Strings. However the Soloviolin seem to me much better than the one from Sacconi (which in my imprewssion was indeed a bit harsh & scratchy).



Spitfire solo strings


----------



## Zedcars

BBCSO Cubase templates by Alex Watson:


----------



## synkrotron

Fleer said:


> Now I know we’ll get to 5000 posts for sure.



Possibly.

But:-





__





BBC Fever and the Reality of Existing Libraries


@Sears Poncho You'd be hard pressed to find an orchestral library of players that would not get royalties for VI, as i understand it, speaking with an older film composer friend of mine, he was telling me in the late 80s and early 90s none of the players and orchestras wanted to be sampled. they...




vi-control.net


----------



## Leo

star.keys said:


> I want to ideally sell (or give it away free and free up my disk space), it it was allowed... very harsh and scratchy sound of violins, legato in general simple doesn’t cut it for me and that over hyped Viola is .. better not to comment


exactly this, and sound from instruments is so tiny (cello, violin, viola) 
in some MIDI CC steps in vibrato you hear no solo instrument but obviously two etc.
It (SSS sound) has nothing to do with live instruments..
maybe when you play fast staccato, pizz or short line is ok, but forgot on repetitive notes, intervals like Philip Glass etc


----------



## synthetic

Still building my template but I like what I hear so far. Will take a bit of mixing (I hear the midrange that one mixer was complaining about) but it seems that ALL string libraries have a buildup in the hi midrange. 

One thing I noticed is that Cubase and Spitfire disagree on what C3 is. Their keyswitch starts at C-1, but I need to send C-2 from Cubase to make that work. I already created a bunch of keyswitch maps, I can post those if anyone is interested. 

Also a few minor bugs (transpose the triangle and the bottom roll dynamic is pitched down several octaves, the transpose setting seems reversed from what it does) but nothing major. I'll get to use it more this weekend.


----------



## Creoin

Robin said:


> Notes above that c are constantly called for in film music literature. In fact up to the Eb is pretty common. Harmonics don't have the same substance of sound and are considerably softer so they are no option.



FYI, from Walter Piston:


> The E two octaves above the open E-string may be recommended as a good practical upper limit, exclusive of harmonics, for orchestral violin parts.



Piston mentions how it's difficult to play in this range because of the small intervals and the strings are farther apart. Still, that E is given as an upper limit. It's a shame Spitfire didn't record at least that high. I imagine it's difficult to play in that range consistently for concert orchestras though.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

The 1.0.3 update is rolling out now, please check your app in a few minutes


----------



## Robin

Creoin said:


> I imagine it's difficult to play in that range consistently for concert orchestras though.


Nothing that the BBC couldn't pull off though...


----------



## Creoin

synthetic said:


> I already created a bunch of keyswitch maps, I can post those if anyone is interested.



I started doing this too, and also was using from C-2. I was wondering if it might be better to collaborate to get them all done. Seems like a lot of work for one person!


----------



## redlester

MartinH. said:


> There are* 5 threads* on this library on the first page of "sample talk" alone... it's getting ridiculous. I think it's time for a dedicated spitfire subforum that uses a [tag] system to filter threads by library.



Really? I can’t see five threads, I can only see this one and a separate one for users demos, which makes perfect sense. 

There is another thread mostly contributed by people not purchasing the library and their reasons for that, which again is very sensible to keep that separate. There’s another thread with one post and no replies about Catalina.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Creoin said:


> I was wondering if it might be better to collaborate to get them all done. Seems like a lot of work for one person!



And with that one single quote, the whole raison d’etre behind the BBC SO is fulfilled...


----------



## SyMTiK

Cat said:


> Spitfire!!! Breakthrough, revolutionary library!!
> 
> IT IS THE FIRST PLUGIN IN YEARS TO CRASH VEPRO!!! It makes it poof( disappears). Unbelievable!
> 
> You guys didn’t try it on windows 10 yet, correct?



I had issues with HZ Strings on my windows 10 machine causing CPU overloads with no fix in site (i7 9700k). It would grind sessions to a halt with even one patch open. Tried everything, no fix. Installed on my Macbook with a slower processor, no issues whatsoever. I think there is some inherent issue with Spitfire's player on windows, I don't know if anyone else has had similar experiences?


----------



## ridgero

redlester said:


> Really? I can’t see five threads, I can only see this one and a separate one for users demos, which makes perfect sense.



Link?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Fry777 said:


> He demonstrates the lack of bite (or bug ?) with the Horns staccatissimos
> @ed buller is this similar to what you're getting ?



Thanks for the quick preview! I must admit, the brass seems very underwhelming, and I can't believe there's no snares. I thought the percussion would be a little more comprehensive.


----------



## cqd

There's a couple of snares in the unpitched percussion patch..I thought it was weird to have the different drums as articulations, but it works alright.. you can set it up however..


----------



## jonvog

Wolfie2112 said:


> Thanks for the quick preview! I must admit, the brass seems very underwhelming, and I can't believe there's no snares. I thought the percussion would be a little more comprehensive.


the brass is one thing, but there are 2 snares + a military drum...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

jonvog said:


> the brass is one thing, but there are 2 snares + a military drum...



Ah, good catch, thanks.


----------



## erica-grace

To those who have BBC - how's the looping in long, sustained notes, specifically the strings? Looping was always an issue with every orchestral SF library I own; looping was never done properly. Was it done properly here? ie - when you hold down one note for a long time, is it smooth throughout, or do you hear a dip after a bit, as in the other libraries?


----------



## bvaughn0402

So far I'm loving it, and think it is a great purchase.

I would say my only gripes thus far:


No Ensembles ... Mentioned in the SOS article. I generally don't use them, but I do enjoy sketching with them sometimes. I hope that Spitfire might add this in a future update.
Interface hard to read ... also mentioned in SOS article. I actually LOVE the interface, but white text on black, small print ... yeah, gets a little hard to read after a while.
CPU hits ... hoping this is something they will improve over time. While not as bad, I have read that some building templates on this max out their RAM quickly. Guess I'll download Christian's BBC template this weekend and see how it does with my system.
Loving the sounds though.

At this point, has anyone heard if they have plans on moving all their libraries over to this interface? I would welcome a uniform Spitfire experience actually.

Now let's hope they keep with their initial promise to do more 1) MIDI file sharing using BBC, and 2) more orchestral instruction based on BBC.


----------



## porrasm

I made a quick demo comparing BBCSO strings and SSO strings. Same midi for both with minor changes to account for some inconsistencies. This uses only the performance patches. The BBCSO could definitely benefit from using the short patches in the beginning as the performance seems to have some problems with super short notes.

The barber of seville string test. BBCSO first then SSO, V1 patches from both


----------



## mixingvenom

synthetic said:


> One thing I noticed is that Cubase and Spitfire disagree on what C3 is. Their keyswitch starts at C-1, but I need to send C-2 from Cubase to make that work. I already created a bunch of keyswitch maps, I can post those if anyone is interested.


I noticed the same thing when building Cubase expression maps and was confused. Good to hear others confirm as a sanity check for me.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

porrasm said:


> I made a quick demo comparing BBCSO strings and SSO strings. Same midi for both with minor changes to account for some inconsistencies. This uses only the performance patches. The BBCSO could definitely benefit from using the short patches in the beginning as the performance seems to have some problems with super short notes.
> 
> The barber of seville string test. BBCSO first then SSO, V1 patches from both



I don't think that demo does any justice for either library. Both sounded very "synthy" to me.


----------



## Sears Poncho

porrasm said:


> The barber of seville string test. BBCSO first then SSO, V1 patches from both


I prefer the latter.


----------



## MartinH.

redlester said:


> Really? I can’t see five threads, I can only see this one and a separate one for users demos, which makes perfect sense.
> 
> There is another thread mostly contributed by people not purchasing the library and their reasons for that, which again is very sensible to keep that separate. There’s another thread with one post and no replies about Catalina.



You've listed 4 of the 5 that I was referring to. Hope this link works, it should direct you to a search for threads with BBC in the title, limited to the sample talk forum: 





__





Search results for query: bbc






vi-control.net






I'm not saying any of the threads in and of themselves are useless, I'm saying the percentage of BBCSO related threads in this subforum diminishes its usability for talking about any other libraries, and the BBCSO related stuff is harder to find for the people who only care about this at the moment. Imho it makes perfect sense to just admit that the demand for a dedicated spitfire forum is there. I don't see a single other developer being the reason for nearly the same amount of threads and posts.


----------



## L-A Desire

Wolfie2112 said:


> I don't think that demo does any justice for either library. Both sounded very "synthy" to me.


And yet... SSO shines through on this one (without the rhythmic inconsistencies ) !


----------



## dzilizzi

Sears Poncho said:


> I prefer the latter.


Question - as a professional violinist, how high do you like to play? There are some complaints that Spitfire only goes to the C that is 3 octaves above middle C rather than to the E or Eb. Just wondering if this is normal range for a real violin for regular play.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

L-A Desire said:


> And yet... SSO shines through on this one (without the rhythmic inconsistencies ) !



Yes, if I had to pick one (based on that demo), SSO is the better of the two.


----------



## Sears Poncho

dzilizzi said:


> Question - as a professional violinist, how high do you like to play? There are some complaints that Spitfire only goes to the C that is 3 octaves above middle C rather than to the E or Eb. Just wondering if this is normal range for a real violin for regular play.


I would consider E the top. It's a natural harmonic. Listen to the end of Scheherazade, the first stand holds that E for ever. Pieces like Carnival of the Animals use it, The Planets, tons really. 

I have Spitfire LCO Strings currently loaded, it goes to C as well. But yeah, that high E, especially played as a harmonic, is important. There's a student concerto by a composer named Accolay, even it has the "slide up to the high E" and it's clearly a student piece.


----------



## Gingerbread

This has been asked several times, but I haven't seen an answer yet (or maybe I just missed it):

Can the Spitfire player purge RAM?


----------



## Robin

Sears Poncho said:


> But yeah, that high E, especially played as a harmonic, is important.


I'm not speaking about harmonics here (which every amateur violinist should be able to produce without problem at this e) but full bodied violin sound. Think E.T. Main Theme (high d). This is not what would work with the fragile and soft sound of a harmonic but needs a proper tone. One that can not be produced with Spitfire Libraries, alas.


----------



## AEF

Sears Poncho said:


> I prefer the latter.



same, by quite a large margin for me.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Gingerbread said:


> Can the Spitfire player purge RAM?


You probably mean a sample purge function like the one good ol' Kontakt had.
I didn't found an answer in this thread either, searched for myself in the plug-in, couldn't find one, so I guess the answer is sadly no (not yet).


----------



## AndyP

synthetic said:


> One thing I noticed is that Cubase and Spitfire disagree on what C3 is. Their keyswitch starts at C-1, but I need to send C-2 from Cubase to make that work.


That's not only true for spitfire, I've also noticed it in other Libraries with Cubase.


----------



## Zedcars

This may have been covered (apologies if it has) but this quote from the BBCSO manual is really interesting to me, and has me wondering exactly what they are eluding to:



Spitfire Audio said said:


> Beyond a new standard for orchestral sample libraries lies a blueprint for an ongoing collaboration with the BBC that will provide resources – online and live – for a community of musicians ready to produce the orchestral music and blockbuster scores of the future. BBC Symphony Orchestra is just the beginning.



What do they mean by online and live resources from the BBC? 🤔


----------



## cqd

That sounds very interesting..

A kind of scoring/writing/orchestration series online..

Free once you buy BBCSO obviously..


----------



## Barbe Rouge

Midi transcriptions? Tutorials on orchestrating with the plugin? Something involving the orchestra's musicians directly?
Maybe they have something in store my mind is not able to anticipate! It is indeed exciting.


----------



## Zedcars

E7 (where mid C = C4) is considered to be the top note playable for a professional violin group. A soloist can obviously go higher since there is less intonation problems for a soloist compared to a group.


----------



## Gingerbread

Bluemount Score said:


> You probably mean a sample purge function like the one good ol' Kontakt had.
> I didn't found an answer in this thread either, searched for myself in the plug-in, couldn't find one, so I guess the answer is sadly no (not yet).


Thanks for the reply, yep that's definitely what I meant. Yeah, that's something I hope Spitfire addresses, especially with a library like this. I rely on purging samples in Kontakt to make my template and workflow work.


----------



## dzilizzi

Sears Poncho said:


> I would consider E the top. It's a natural harmonic. Listen to the end of Scheherazade, the first stand holds that E for ever. Pieces like Carnival of the Animals use it, The Planets, tons really.
> 
> I have Spitfire LCO Strings currently loaded, it goes to C as well. But yeah, that high E, especially played as a harmonic, is important. There's a student concerto by a composer named Accolay, even it has the "slide up to the high E" and it's clearly a student piece.


Thanks! It is always good to know as although my dad played the violin when I was young, I really know little about it.


----------



## Hadrondrift

dzilizzi said:


> Just wondering if this is normal range for a real violin for regular play.


No Shostakovich Symphony No. 7, op. 60 without that e up there, at least:


----------



## Zedcars

Pitch-bend will get you to high Eb as a workaround. I see no way to adjust the pitch-bend range. Anyone?

Maybe layer that with the leader and it won't sound too bad? Haven't tried it yet.


----------



## Jett Hitt

synthetic said:


> One thing I noticed is that Cubase and Spitfire disagree on what C3 is. Their keyswitch starts at C-1, but I need to send C-2 from Cubase to make that work. I already created a bunch of keyswitch maps, I can post those if anyone is interested.



Cubase is simply wrong. Middle C is C4. It is not C3. I used Cubase for 6 years, and this drove me insane. The standard of Middle C as C4 was set years before DAWs were even a concept. Labeling it as C3 seems to be a Yamaha convention, but according to the rest of the world, Middle C is C4:









Scientific pitch notation - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## redlester

bvaughn0402 said:


> Interface hard to read ... also mentioned in SOS article. I actually LOVE the interface, but white text on black, small print ... yeah, gets a little hard to read after a while



Another example of how people have completely different experiences. I find it much easier to read than EWC, and if the SOS reviewer thinks the text is small I wonder what he thinks of some of their Kontakt products?!


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Something some might want to try - if they have another midi keyboard in their studio - is playing through the articulations and keyswitching on a Semi or non weighted keyboard, if they use , say a Doepfer or Komplete Kontrol S88 as a main (with fully weighted keys). Switching from my KK88 to my Roland System 8 , the library just flows so much better under my fingers. 

Another thing to try is changing the velocity curve on your only one. This may sound like a silly simple thing to say, but it can make a massive difference to the playability of a library .


----------



## meradium

Judging from the early feedback hope is coming back that I can somehow safeguard my wallet... Really curious how the sentiment is going to develop over the next few days and weeks. Right now I am quite surprised that we don't seem to hear too many compositions or even initial doodles from real users  Either everyone is in pure heaven or mental calming I guess?


----------



## Illico

meradium said:


> Right now I am quite surprised that we don't seem to hear too many compositions or even initial doodles from real users  Either everyone is in pure heaven or mental calming I guess?


"Learning curve" of a new library


----------



## Zedcars

*Prob*:

Can someone try this:

In the Celli, hold down note G3 (mid C=C4) on the legato articulation at maximum dynamic level. After about 2 seconds there is a short metallic glitch noise. Anyone confirm this?

EDIT: Also happens on G#3.

EDIT2: Forgot to say Legato art.


----------



## porrasm

Wolfie2112 said:


> I don't think that demo does any justice for either library. Both sounded very "synthy" to me.


I spent around 5 min with both and I'm not very good. It's enough for a rough comparison between the two.


----------



## redlester

Gingerbread said:


> Thanks for the reply, yep that's definitely what I meant. Yeah, that's something I hope Spitfire addresses, especially with a library like this. I rely on purging samples in Kontakt to make my template and workflow work.



You need to use the Techniques Editor in the GUI.

When I open BBC SO in Logic, as the only track loaded, to the default Violins patch it displays (after fully loading) 791MB Memory in the GUI (my Mac activity monitor is at 8.73GB RAM used).

When I go into the Techniques Editor and delete all articulations apart from the Longs, it goes down to 89.5MB in the GUI (activity monitor 7.72GB).

So the answer is you need to set your template up to only use the articulations you want to use. You can actually set it up with no articulations at all and just add them in on an as needed basis. (Which I suppose is the equivalent of purging).


----------



## Zedcars

*Prob 2 (minor)*:

Also, I can hear someone talking (male voice) very faintly on Celli F2 and F#2 (mid C=C4) on the legato art at max dynamic level. Sounds like he's saying "keep quiet". 

Probably wouldn't notice it in a mix though.

EDIT: Seems to be in the vibrato sample(s) only. If I turn the vibrato all the way down, the talking is no longer there. Again, it's very faint indeed - headphones needed to hear it. I'm probably being nit-picky tbh - not going to hear this in a mix!


----------



## cqd

Man..the load times are not good..


----------



## redlester

porrasm said:


> I spent around 5 min with both and I'm not very good. It's enough for a rough comparison between the two.



They both sound fine to me.


----------



## Zedcars

*Prob 3*:

There is a loop point problem on G2 and G#2 (mid C=C4) of the Celli (again max dynamics, legato). Glitch after about 3-4 seconds. At max vibrato, it also has a strange vibrational quality that the neighbouring notes do not have.

EDIT: Only present in the vibrato sample(s). Not very prominent, but there nonetheless.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> *Prob 2 (minor)*:
> 
> Also, I can hear someone talking (male voice) very faintly on Celli F2 and F#2 (mid C=C4) on the legato art at max dynamic level. Sounds like he's saying "keep quiet".
> 
> Probably wouldn't notice it in a mix though.



It's Paul. He was very excited!


----------



## ed buller

SPITFIRE SUPPORT:

I have to say I find their support outstanding. Go On the webpage. Start a chat and within minutes there's someone to talk to. I ve had no problems and nothing but speedy resolutions

best

ed


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> *Prob*:
> 
> Can someone try this:
> 
> In the Celli, hold down note G3 (mid C=C4) on the legato articulation at maximum dynamic level. After about 2 seconds there is a short metallic glitch noise. Anyone confirm this?
> 
> EDIT: Also happens on G#3.
> 
> EDIT2: Forgot to say Legato art.



Just tried this, I can't hear what you're describing.


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> Just tried this, I can't hear what you're describing.


Just before I release the note there's a glitch (loop point issue?). Easier to hear with headphones on.

I hear it in the left of the stereo field.


----------



## babylonwaves

hittjett said:


> Cubase is simply wrong. Middle C is C4. It is not C3.



there are simply different schools. Yamaha defined the middle on their keyboards differently to Roland, back in the days when the first space shuttle launched. and the first actor became potus. nop, not Arnie... but both were governors in CA at some point. and I so wanted a moustache. but i degrees.









What is `Roland's pitch` and `Yamaha's pitch`? and How to convert notes to them?


I have an assign that convert this sheet to 'Roland's pitch' and 'Yamaha's pitch'. I have no idea about what is Roland's pitch and Yamaha's pitch, neither how to do it. Please let me know. using t...




music.stackexchange.com





some DAWs allow you to define the middle C (Roland C4, Yamaha C3). and of course, the KS labelling on orchestra players is either this or that.

happy friday!


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Just before I release the note there's a glitch (loop point issue?). Easier to hear with headphones on.
> 
> I hear it in the left of the stereo field.



You've got me worried now, because I can't hear it in your mp3 file either.
Am sure you're right, and my ears are 60 years old, it might be something to do with that!


----------



## gtrwll

Anyone tested out the vibrato control on the leader/solo instruments? I'm scratching my head, at least the cello and flute seem to be no vibrato from 0 to 50 and a lot of vibrato from 51 to 100, but no crossfade in between. Is it working how it should? The sections crossfade normally.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Just a reminder that this isn't any sort of official support forum, so it would be unfair to expect Spitfire to respond to all queries or reports here.
If you do find a "bug" or require support, the only way to have that officially logged is by going to them directly.
Of course, if you're just sharing to let other forum members know about it, that's fine too.


----------



## ism

gtrwll said:


> Anyone tested out the vibrato control on the leader/solo instruments? I'm scratching my head, at least the cello and flute seem to be no vibrato from 0 to 50 and a lot of vibrato from 51 to 100, but no crossfade in between. Is it working how it should? The sections crossfade normally.



That's pretty normal for solo strings, unless they use simulated vibrato or phase alignment which spitfire, so far as I know doesn't. This is how the spitfire solo strings work, for instance, and also the Joshua Bell violins (with the caveat that the JB has the option to simulate vibrato, though at considerable cost to the sound).

You can just about get away with cross fading vibrato for ensemble strings, but on a solo string instrument, it's just too phasey.


----------



## Hadrondrift

redlester said:


> because I can't hear it in your mp3 file either.


A short crack after about 3 seconds, you indeed have to listen very carefully.


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> You've got me worried now, because I can't hear it in your mp3 file either.
> Am sure you're right, and my ears are 60 years old, it might be something to do with that!


Ok, well maybe others can chime in. It’s not a show stopper.


----------



## Jett Hitt

babylonwaves said:


> there are simply different schools. Yamaha defined the middle on their keyboards differently to Roland,



The problem with this is that one school is a whole lot newer than the other, and in the world of science and music, Middle C is known as C4. Just because some engineer in a lab ignored scientific convention doesn't change that fact.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Jdiggity1 said:


> If you do find a "bug" or require support, the only way to have that officially logged is by going to them directly.


Absolutely! As well as this, we can actually update you on issues much easier this way. 

If you do find anything or have any questions in general, you're always going to get a response by going direct through spitfireaudio.com/support. We respond to everything sent in, and unfortunately cannot guarantee that everything here will be picked up (especially when the threads are moving this fast!). 

Thanks!


----------



## gtrwll

ism said:


> That's pretty normal for solo strings, unless they use simulated vibrato or phase alignment which spitfire, so far as I know doesn't. This is how the spitfire solo strings work, for instance, and also the Joshua Bell violins (with the caveat that the JB has the option to simulate vibrato, though at considerable cost to the sound).
> 
> You can just about get away with cross fading vibrato for ensemble strings, but on a solo string instrument, it's just too phasey.



Ok got it, thanks! I only have Blakus Cello which does let me choose the amount of vibrato, but it's probably a simulated one then.


----------



## ism

gtrwll said:


> Ok got it, thanks! I only have Blakus Cello which does let me choose the amount of vibrato, but it's probably a simulated one then.



Yep, Blakus vibrato is simulated. And surprisingly ok. But that's the best that can be said about the Blakus vibrato.


----------



## prodigalson

gtrwll said:


> Ok got it, thanks! I only have Blakus Cello which does let me choose the amount of vibrato, but it's probably a simulated one then.



Also, I believe from watching the walkthroughs the section strings actually have 3 vibrato layers allowing for more variety in the intensity of the vibrato however the solo strings only have 2 vibrato layers. I’ll be honest, for Spitfire, I’m pleasantly surprised that even the section strings have more than just on and off


----------



## babylonwaves

hittjett said:


> The problem with this is that one school is a whole lot newer than the other, and in the world of science and music, Middle C is known as C4. Just because some engineer in a lab ignored scientific convention doesn't change that fact.



i'm sure you will survive. good luck


----------



## bricop

Should the articulation sets work as they do in Kontakt? I have tried setting them up but the note on messages don't seem to be communicated to the player. They change in the articulation list next to the piano roll when selecting a note but don't seem to be changing in the BBCSO player? Anyone else having trouble with this?


----------



## redlester

hittjett said:


> The problem with this is that one school is a whole lot newer than the other, and in the world of science and music, Middle C is known as C4. Just because some engineer in a lab ignored scientific convention doesn't change that fact.



Logic has the option of either, under Preferences>Display.
By default it seems to be set at "C3 (Yamaha)", the other option is "C4 (Roland)".
Perhaps this explains some of the confusion about key switches and violin range, remember Spitfire is an almost exclusively Logic environment!

This is what the Logic manual has to say on the matter:


> _“Display Middle C as” pop-up menu: _Affects the description of notes in the editors. The bottom C on a five-octave keyboard (note # 36) is labeled C1, and middle C (note # 60) is labeled C3. According to this standard, the lowest MIDI note (note # 0) is called C–2. This is the official standard used by most manufacturers. Use of the C3 (Yamaha) setting sets Logic Pro to this standard mode. If you select the C4 (Roland) setting, the bottom C on a five-octave keyboard is labeled C2, and middle C is labeled as C4. In this standard, the lowest MIDI note is C–1.


----------



## Robert_G

redlester said:


> You need to use the Techniques Editor in the GUI.
> 
> When I open BBC SO in Logic, as the only track loaded, to the default Violins patch it displays (after fully loading) 791MB Memory in the GUI (my Mac activity monitor is at 8.73GB RAM used).
> 
> When I go into the Techniques Editor and delete all articulations apart from the Longs, it goes down to 89.5MB in the GUI (activity monitor 7.72GB).
> 
> So the answer is you need to set your template up to only use the articulations you want to use. You can actually set it up with no articulations at all and just add them in on an as needed basis. (Which I suppose is the equivalent of purging).



That's not fully what we are asking...and what you have replied with is NOT the equivilant of purging samples fully in Kontakt.

Yes...in Kontakt, it's easy enough to just not add the articulations that you won't use, but in Kontakt, you can also finish writing your track....THEN...purge the samples from that instrument....play the track through....and the only samples loaded into RAM are the ones that you actually USED from the loaded articulation(s). That is one of the many reasons Kontakt is #1. *Our question is can this Spitfire Player do that or not?*


----------



## ERIC VALETTE

Finally found a short description of the changes for version 1.0.1 and 1.0.2 of the plug in :

*BBC Symphony Orchestra*

*[1.0.2] - 2019-10-25*
*Summary*


Updated plugin release
Woodwind: updates NKS presets

*Fixed*


Fixed an issue with parsing JSON on older CPUs
Fixed a very rare crashing case on Windows when scanning for patches and presets
Fixed an issue where presets where being marked as modified on load
Fixed a potential crash when loading a large amount of previews and quitting the plugin
Woodwinds:
Corrected the NKS keyswitches on Flutes and Piccolos


*[1.0.1] - 2019-10-24*
*Summary*


Updated plugin release

*Fixed*


Fixed some edge cases where the on-screen dials would not correctly attach to the DAW parameter system
Fixed an edge case where keyswitches would sometimes display using the wrong colour


----------



## redlester

Robert_G said:


> That's not fully what we are asking...and what you have replied with is NOT the equivilant of purging samples fully in Kontakt.
> 
> Yes...in Kontakt, it's easy enough to just not add the articulations that you won't use, but in Kontakt, you can also finish writing your track....THEN...purge the samples from that instrument....play the track through....and the only samples loaded into RAM are the ones that you actually USED from the loaded articulation(s). That is one of the many reasons Kontakt is #1. *Our question is can this Spitfire Player do that or not?*



I have no idea, I'm not an expert in the Spitfire GUI nuances, I was simply trying to assist. It may be useful information for some people.


----------



## zolhof

Robert_G said:


> *Our question is can this Spitfire Player do that or not?*



No. It's on their to-do list. Source: support.


----------



## redlester

Is anyone using 1.0.3 yet and how is it? I'm sticking with 1.0.0 for the time being!


----------



## vdk-john

Someone posted this on YouTube:


----------



## fahl5

redlester said:


> Is anyone using 1.0.3 yet and how is it? I'm sticking with 1.0.0 for the time being!


No Problem here neither with Cubase nor with VE 7 Pro. Looking forward using it in first Projects.


----------



## fahl5

vdk-john said:


> Someone posted this on YouTube:



ugly music but nice Brass + Percussion sound
I would be interested to hear more with Strings and Woodwinds now.


----------



## ERIC VALETTE

redlester said:


> Is anyone using 1.0.3 yet and how is it? I'm sticking with 1.0.0 for the time being!


For my part, this solved the crash problem of version 1.0.2. Everything seems to work correctly for the moment (Cubase 10 / Windows 10).


----------



## al_net77

redlester said:


> Is anyone using 1.0.3 yet and how is it? I'm sticking with 1.0.0 for the time being!



It works.


----------



## Robert_G

redlester said:


> I have no idea, I'm not an expert in the Spitfire GUI nuances, I was simply trying to assist. It may be useful information for some people.



No worries....I think some of us can't figure out for the amount of people who have this by now, that no one has answered this. Purging options are usually pretty simple to figure out what is there and what isn't. How much you can purge out of RAM is like one of the most important things to know for guys with mid level computers.


----------



## cqd

I'd say DJ's review should be good..


----------



## vdk-john

fahl5 said:


> ugly music but nice Brass + Percussion sound



I'm not expert enough to criticize someone's work in such absolute terms but I'm still very grateful to anyone who posts material like this that can give me a better idea of how the library sounds like


----------



## vdk-john

cqd said:


> I'd say DJ's review should be good..



Hopefully he'll get his copy before tomorrow 😝


----------



## Robert_G

zolhof said:


> No. It's on their to-do list. Source: support.



If it is on their to do list and it does get done.....that would be fantastic and makes a big difference whether or not I buy this lib.

Thanks.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Quick update. 1.0.3 works fine for me, no issues so far.
I moved the whole BBCSO to my external SSD and in fact, the extremely slow loading problem I had with my HDD at the beginning is solved now. Great!


----------



## 5Lives

I’m surprised folks would compare this to Nucleus. That’s only 20GB in total and seems like a sketching library (also, personally sounds pretty synthy to me or overly like trailer music from the demos). Spitfire’s stuff always seems more on the softer side (apart from Albion 1 and 3), so would expect the sound of BBCSO to be more that - and more realistic / flexible in general.


----------



## Odum Abekah

Bluemount Score said:


> Quick update. 1.0.3 works fine for me, no issues so far.
> I moved the whole BBCSO to my external SSD and in fact, the extremely slow loading problem I had with my HDD at the beginning is solved now. Great!



That‘s good to hear. Still got a week of downloading to go so I’m living vicariously through everyone here. SSDs tend to be the best place for samples; their streaming speeds make a huge difference!


----------



## AndyP

10 mins download left ...next step .. load update 1.0.3


----------



## Bluemount Score

Odum Abekah said:


> That‘s good to hear. Still got a week of downloading to go so I’m living vicariously through everyone here. SSDs tend to be the best place for samples; their streaming speeds make a huge difference!


Yes, definitely. And I need my libraries to be easily portable as well.
The samples still need to load of course, just as with e.g. any Kontakt Library. But it goes way faster now and doesn't seem to stop in the middle of the process without any obvious reason.


----------



## Adam Takacs

AndyP said:


> 10 mins download left ...next step .. load update 1.0.3


2 days left here... :D


----------



## Lady Gaia

hittjett said:


> Cubase is simply wrong. Middle C is C4. It is not C3.



Sadly, the MIDI standard doesn’t take a position on this and we’re stuck with multiple notation schemes. Worse yet, at least one manufacturer takes a rather literal stance that the specification also doesn’t define the pitch of “middle C.” Their gear produces a 220Hz fundamental for MIDI note #60, which is quite clearly defined as middle C. It’s something of a mess, frankly.


----------



## AndyP

tadam said:


> 2 days left here... :D


Puh, two more days and my liver blows up. Cheers!


----------



## Odum Abekah

Bluemount Score said:


> Yes, definitely. And I need my libraries to be easily portable as well.
> The samples still need to load of course, just as with e.g. any Kontakt Library. But it goes way faster now and doesn't seem to stop in the middle of the process without any obvious reason.



I was just checking out one of your compositions btw - it sounds fantastic! Looking forward to hearing what you make with this library too!


----------



## dzilizzi

I'm guessing Spitfire support is a little overwhelmed trying to keep up. We are probably just a small contingent here of actual users. They seem to be doing pretty well considering.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Odum Abekah said:


> I was just checking out one of your compositions btw - it sounds fantastic! Looking forward to hearing what you make with this library too!


Thanks for the kind words! Lots of projects to complete right now, but I'll do my best to create something with BBCSO as soon as possible. You don't know much about a library before you didn't at least try to compose an actual track with it. And BBCSO inspires me to do so.


----------



## Bluemount Score

dzilizzi said:


> I'm guessing Spitfire support is a little overwhelmed trying to keep up. We are probably just a small contingent here of actual users. They seem to be doing pretty well considering.


I mostly heard very good things about Spitfire support, even though I yet didn't had to contact them. Considering BBCSO, this thread was enough help so far. Proves how useful it is to be part of this forum, informations about updates and hidden features spread far more quickly and are easier accessible. Well, at least if you know in which thread / on what page you'll find what you are searching.


----------



## Noeticus

Forget about 5000 posts. This baby is gonna go the full 6000.


----------



## Odum Abekah

Bluemount Score said:


> Thanks for the kind words! Lots of projects to complete right now, but I'll do my best to create something with BBCSO as soon as possible. You don't know much about a library before you didn't at least try to compose an actual track with it. And BBCSO inspires me to do so.



Of course! I’m just starting out so it’s really encouraging (but daunting!) to see just how far it can go. Step one is making amateur orchestrations for my singer/songwriter material 😅.


----------



## cqd

Just fired up the pro tools template with two mics tree and outriggers on everything to see how quickly it loaded up and you could play every instrument.. said I'd time it.. after 10 minutes after the session starting, I still couldn't play a couple of the instruments..and the memory said 98% of 64 gig of ram..


----------



## Bluemount Score

Odum Abekah said:


> Of course! I’m just starting out so it’s really encouraging (but daunting!) to see just how far it can go. Step one is making amateur orchestrations for my singer/songwriter material 😅.


Speaking for myself, it's not even one and a half years ago since I started composing (orchestral) music this way, or basically at all. Things can escalate pretty quickly, good luck with BBCSO as a universal starting point!


----------



## cqd

All the talk of templates taking up 12g before the launch almost seems like false advertising now..

The Andy Blaney session running on 8 gig almost cynical..


----------



## Odum Abekah

Bluemount Score said:


> Speaking for myself, it's not even one and a half years ago since I started composing (orchestral) music this way, or basically at all. Things can escalate pretty quickly, good luck with BBCSO as a universal starting point!



Thanks! Would you be willing to field some questions about your orchestration journey down the road/when I finally get everything downloaded 😂?


----------



## Karma

cqd said:


> All the talk of templates taking up 12g before the launch almost seems like false advertising now..
> 
> The Andy Blaney session running on 8 gig almost cynical..


What's your preload size set to in the plugin? Sounds like it's probably quite high. I can assure you that nothing was false.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Odum Abekah said:


> Thanks! Would you be willing to field some questions about your orchestration journey down the road/when I finally get everything downloaded 😂?


Sure, go ahead and drop me a PM anytime!


----------



## cqd

Karma said:


> What's your preload size set to in the plugin? Sounds like it's probably quite high. I can assure you that nothing was false.



It's at 4000, and the other one is at 14000..


----------



## cqd

64 Gb maxed out..


----------



## PerryD

cqd said:


> All the talk of templates taking up 12g before the launch almost seems like false advertising now..
> 
> The Andy Blaney session running on 8 gig almost cynical..


 Perhaps by deleting all of the articulations not used? It does seem a stretch that such a great demo is only using 8 gb's. I just received my SSD a few minutes ago. I am grateful for missing 1.0.1 and 1.0.2! I ordered another 32gb of ram (I'll have 64) which will arrive Saturday. Still looking forward to this and how well I can suppliment it with my existing favorite libraries. After initial testing, I will probably (gasp) remove the SSD from the Spitfire case, so I can use it in my usb 3.1 dock. There goes the SSD warranty. :/


----------



## Karma

cqd said:


> 64 Gb maxed out..


Is it displaying as that much memory being used outside of PT?


----------



## cqd

Karma said:


> Is it displaying as that much memory being used outside of PT?



There's nothing else on outside PT..I watched that climb as the instruments became playable..

I'm going to recheck now again with different buffers and restarting everything..


----------



## ed buller

Nearly the whole ORCH loaded. Just not the solo strings yet. 64g ram is my limit

best

e


----------



## Karma

cqd said:


> There's nothing else on outside PT..I watched that climb as the instruments became playable..
> 
> I'm going to recheck now again with different buffers and restarting everything..


I should clarify, I'm referring to an activity monitor outside of PT. I'd consider contacting support if otherwise as that's certainly not right.


----------



## AndyP

I like the strings. the sound is really nice. the playability of the legato makes a lot of sense. is fun until now.


----------



## Bluemount Score

ed buller said:


> Nearly the whole ORCH loaded. Just not the solo strings yet. 64g ram is my limit
> 
> best
> 
> e


What mic settings are included here?


----------



## Markus Kohlprath

hittjett said:


> Cubase is simply wrong. Middle C is C4. It is not C3. I used Cubase for 6 years, and this drove me insane. The standard of Middle C as C4 was set years before DAWs were even a concept. Labeling it as C3 seems to be a Yamaha convention, but according to the rest of the world, Middle C is C4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scientific pitch notation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


If I remember it right you can set this in cubase in the preference menu. Not quite sure about it.


----------



## ed buller

Bluemount Score said:


> What mic settings are included here?


just Mix 1

e


----------



## Zedcars

Markus Kohlprath said:


> If I remember it right you can set this in cubase in the preference menu. Not quite sure about it.


Is this a brand new feature? I don't think they ever added that in as a preference. Very frustrating. Would love to be proven wrong. I hate middle C as C3. C4 all the way.


----------



## fahl5

5Lives said:


> I’m surprised folks would compare this to Nucleus. That’s only 20GB in total and seems like a sketching library (also, personally sounds pretty synthy to me or overly like trailer music from the demos). Spitfire’s stuff always seems more on the softer side (apart from Albion 1 and 3), so would expect the sound of BBCSO to be more that - and more realistic / flexible in general.


I fear you cant get any serious impression about the real sonic potential of a library without seriously working on your own projects.
I really do not count on any five minutes after Download Tests or Demos.
I have no doubt that BBC SO is a large product with many details to explore. All what I have heard now does not sound in any way "synthy" at all. People who talk like that at the same day they installed the library are presumably comunicating their fears more than founded judgement about what you are able to do with this large and important orchestral library. So just have some patience after one or two month it seem to me much more likelöy, that you will hear "Demos" which are really ready to "demonstrate" the potantialo of that library.


----------



## cqd

Memory usage outside of PT seems to be mirroring the usage inside PT.. climbing up a couple of percent behind PT as the instruments load..


----------



## AndyP

Very nice, with the thrills the time of the attack phase, until the thrills start depends on the dynamic.At least with the leaders. 

Leader as first chair yes, soloists, not so much.


----------



## Markus Kohlprath

Zedcars said:


> Is this a brand new feature? I don't think they ever added that in as a preference. Very frustrating. Would love to be proven wrong. I hate middle C as C3. C4 all the way.


I check it tomorrow. I’m not in the studio right now.


----------



## Architekton

Any comments on horn staccatos? Are they really that bad?


----------



## Hadrondrift

Markus Kohlprath said:


> you can set this in cubase in the preference menu


Unfortunately, you still can't. This middle C option is requested since many years, but Steinberg ignores that, maybe it is a Yamaha thing... Same clash with Vienna Instruments btw.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Architekton said:


> Any comments on horn staccatos? Are they really that bad?


They are completely missing bite and sound as if they were only sampled up to mf. Pretty lifeless overall, sadly, which makes them unusable for most of what I like horn staccatos using for. After a little more of testing all patches, still the libraries weakest point. Too weak, if you ask me, I hope it's a bug, but I'm not sure, it could be intended to be this way...


----------



## AndyP

Architekton said:


> Any comments on horn staccatos? Are they really that bad?


Compared to the other articulations yes. Unfortunately. The punch is missing.

Edit: It looks like the higher range have a bit more punch, but the lower ranges are very weak.


----------



## redlester

Ok have installed 1.0.3 for the plugin and noticed there was also a 1.0.2 update of the woodwinds section. No idea what the changes are.


----------



## fahl5

AndyP said:


> Compared to the other articulations yes. Unfortunately. The punch is missing.
> 
> Edit: It looks like the higher range have a bit more punch, but the lower ranges are very weak.


I just tried to compare BBC SO Horns, SSB and VSL Synchronized-Dimension-Brass and dont feel any notable lack of "punch" compared to the others while I would suggest everyone who is looking for "bite" to better go for Trumpets and Trombones and not for Horns which should also be able to pleasant and warm moderate sounds.
In my humble opinion the BBC SO Horns are beautiful in each colour you really would and should expect from Horns. that includes the louder more punchy to.
So I do not consent any doubts about alledged missing Horn Punch. I like them.


----------



## AndyP

Solo Oboe Legato: The dynamic transition is clearly audible. The tone changes quite abruptly when you move the modwheel. Probably negligible in the context of other instruments, but if you play solo you can hear it already.

Edit: There's a few little things, but I think it's high level whining.

The sound is very good and by far not researched yet, and for the price it is a top library.
Strings in the bass range, great sound.

Woodwinds sound very nice, Brass has a nice sound (although I would like to have more dynamics in the horn staccatos).

Percussion also sounds good. So far convincing for a fast walkthrough.
If I consider what the library costs, it's a great package (for a first glance).


----------



## Zedcars

The plugin logfile has this entry:



> Multiple Files found called BBCSO_MV1_IR1.spitfire
> ...
> Impulse response file: <ID:1121547>



*It looks like they already recorded impulse responses in Maida Vale Studios.*






But, why are they using IM's if it's been recorded inside the venue with natural reverb...???


----------



## cqd

fahl5 said:


> I just tried to compare BBC SO Horns, SSB and VSL Synchronized-Dimension-Brass and dont feel any notable lack of "punch" compared to the others while I would suggest everyone who is looking for "bite" to better go for Trumpets and Trombones and not for Horns which should also be able to pleasant and warm moderate sounds.
> In my humble opinion the BBC SO Horns are beautiful in each colour you really would and should expect from Horns. that includes the louder more punchy to.
> So I do not consent any doubts about alledged missing Horn Punch. I like them.



Do you not get a massive volume drop on the stacc and marcato patches?


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> The plugin logfile has this entry:
> 
> 
> 
> *It looks like they already recorded impulse responses in Maida Vale Studios.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, why are they using IM's if it's been recorded inside the venue with natural reverb...???



The FX section of the plugin has reverb as an effect. Could it be for that?


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> The FX section of the plugin has reverb as an effect. Could it be for that?


I guess that could be it. Would sure be nice to be able to use that BBCSO_MV1_IR1 on 3rd party stuff! If only...


----------



## Eldhrimnir

Zedcars said:


> Just before I release the note there's a glitch (loop point issue?). Easier to hear with headphones on.
> 
> I hear it in the left of the stereo field.



To my ears this is simply a bow change. Not a bug. Not unlikely considering it's the top velocity.


----------



## Zedcars

It's just that we were talking about Maida Vale IRs many pages ago and wondering if they would record them. It's really interesting to me that they did indeed record them. I wonder if they'll always be locked away inside the plugin or if they'll allow us to use it more freely?


----------



## Zedcars

Eldhrimnir said:


> To my ears this is simply a bow change. Not a bug. Not unlikely considering it's the top velocity.


Thanks for clearing that up. I think you're right.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> It's just that we were talking about Maida Vale IRs many pages ago



Ah, those halcyon days when we mused over chocolate to while away the hours...


----------



## AndyP

How can I put together a percussion kit in one instance? Do I really have to open an instance for each Percussion instrument? Or do I not understand something?


----------



## cqd

Transpose them to where you want and then shift click to select them all..


----------



## AndyP

cqd said:


> Transpose them to where you want and then shift click to select them all..


Great, thx!


----------



## Zedcars

.


----------



## fahl5

cqd said:


> Do you not get a massive volume drop on the stacc and marcato patches?


That is exactly, what Staccato and Marcato is all about.
If you dont want that you should use Sustain. 
They are not bad either.


----------



## germancomponist

Do u remember the days when EWQLSO came out? I now feel the exactly same feelings ... .


----------



## cqd

fahl5 said:


> That is exactly, what Staccato and Marcato is all about.
> If you dont want that you should use Sustain.
> They are not bad either.



But like..it's not there with the trumpets..


----------



## prodigalson

AndyP said:


> Solo Oboe Legato: The dynamic transition is clearly audible. The tone changes quite abruptly when you move the modwheel. Probably negligible in the context of other instruments, but if you play solo you can hear it already.
> 
> Edit: There's a few little things, but I think it's high level whining.
> 
> The sound is very good and by far not researched yet, and for the price it is a top library.
> Strings in the bass range, great sound.
> 
> Woodwinds sound very nice, Brass has a nice sound (although I would like to have more dynamics in the horn staccatos).
> 
> Percussion also sounds good. So far convincing for a fast walkthrough.
> If I consider what the library costs, it's a great package (for a first glance).



Agree on the oboe legato. For me, it’s especially problematic on the C5 and D5. The rest isn’t is bad. Do you agree? I also really feel the Solo Horn Leg and sustain dynamic crossfades are especially problematic. It’s really clear here that a 3rd dynamic layer would have made a huge difference. As of now, as soon as you get to just half way on CC1, that thin, brassy tone kicks in pretty instantly. Very disappointing as this was a problem in horn libraries 10 years ago. Cinebrass comes to mind. 
That said, below 63 the Solo Horn is really beautiful, just don’t hit that halfway point!


----------



## erica-grace

Anyone care to enlighten me on the looping that I referenced earlier?  How is it?


----------



## AndyP

My solution for he horns staccatos:
The big round knob in the interface can control the tightness. I set this a bit higher.
In Cubase I set the dynamic of the channel to 65. This gives at least a better playability for loud passages.

Edit: Mix 2 ist also better for the horns.


----------



## ed buller

I love this Library...apart from the Horns...The Staccs are unusable. Hopefully a fix is imminent. But the rest is wonderful. Sounds Like the real thing in a decent setting. Beautifully recorded. They best I've heard really across a whole orchestra ( that's not private and German! ). Just Mix1 sounds lush and "Orchestral" I'd add a taste of a big hall just for the Tail in a final Mix...but just a touch. It's a very inspiring sound.

Best

Ed


----------



## ed buller

AndyP said:


> My solution for he horns staccatos:
> The big round knob in the interface can control the tightness. I set this a bit higher.
> In Cubase I set the dynamic of the channel to 65. This gives at least a better playability for loud passages.



Still sounds Lame....I need to Hear Orcs !!

e


----------



## AndyP

ed buller said:


> Still sounds Lame....I need to Hear Orcs !!
> 
> e


That's right. But at least somewhat better than with the standard settings.

I think I will use Caspian, HWB or Action Brass for the Horns.

Or the Schwarzdorn Horns from Ark 1. But I have to work on them a lot on the release ... otherwise they are too wet.


----------



## cqd

The horns is surely just an oversight/mistake..it should be one of the first fixed..


----------



## ed buller

I can't help think that they are Just Missing the Top Two Dynamics !..........i wonder if it's just a programming snafu...None of the other Spitfire Horns sound this weedy .....

e


----------



## ed buller

cqd said:


> The horns is surely just an oversight/mistake..it should be one of the first fixed..


yes I think you are right

e


----------



## AndyP

Even the BHCT horns are way better. Looks like they blend quite good with BBCSO.


----------



## cqd

Even with just the one mic..man, this thing takes its time.. like, tbh, this is close enough to unusable with Pro tools..


----------



## ed buller

cqd said:


> Even with just the one mic..man, this thing takes its time.. like, tbh, this is close enough to unusable with Pro tools..



Are you on a fast Drive ? I was in the wrong port and it took forever

e


----------



## cqd

ed buller said:


> Are you on a fast Drive ? I was in the wrong port and it took forever
> 
> e



It's on an internal ssd..I've a template made, with one instance per instrument..leaders and sections..default mic position..The session loads quickly, but then I've to wait LITERALLY 10 minutes before all the instruments are playable..and everything is still rocky/glitchy..
This is a fairly new i9 system..pt 2019..
And to think I used complain about how long a kontakt template took to load up..


----------



## Kony

Has there been an update for when the bass flute will be released?


----------



## ed buller

cqd said:


> It's on an internal ssd..I've a template made, with one instance per instrument..leaders and sections..default mic position..The session loads quickly, but then I've to wait LITERALLY 10 minutes before all the instruments are playable..and everything is still rocky/glitchy..
> This is a fairly new i9 system..pt 2019..
> And to think I used complain about how long a kontakt template took to load up..


make sure NONE of the spitfire players are flashing red and Green in the top left by the CPU. If you play before then it's horrible. My Template now is close to 55 gb. Takes 40 mins

e


----------



## artomatic

Since there isn't a serial number, how are you guys registering this to NI for VEP use?


----------



## cqd

ed buller said:


> My Template now is close to 55 gb. Takes 40 mins



Takes 40 mins for it to load up?..man..


----------



## ed buller

cqd said:


> Takes 40 mins for it to load up?..man..



My Kontakt temp is an Hour and a half !

e


----------



## Zedcars

.


----------



## AndyP

artomatic said:


> Since there isn't a serial number, how are you guys registering this to NI for VEP use?


Just load the Spitfire player in VEP, like Kontakt, Synchron Player or Play.


----------



## schrodinger1612

This is more of a ‘self contained’ library right? That is, recorded in one space and therefore not designed to be used in conjunction with other libraries? On the one hand, the self contained all-in-one route is more convenient for me, though piecing together individual dry sample libraries offers a bit more flexibility - after all, what if I want more control over a mix...or want to introduce synthetic elements and other acoustic samples?

What is the middle ground between being able to compose traditional orchestral scores where everything sits in a natural space, and being able to deviate from that in the form of a more experimental ‘mix and match’ approach?


----------



## artomatic

AndyP said:


> Just load the Spitfire player in VEP, like Kontakt, Synchron Player or Play.



Many thanks!!


----------



## CT

Frank Costabile said:


> This is more of a ‘self contained’ library right? That is, recorded in one space and therefore not designed to be used in conjunction with other libraries? On the one hand, the self contained all-in-one route is more convenient for me, though piecing together individual dry sample libraries offers a bit more flexibility - after all, what if I want more control over a mix...or want to introduce synthetic elements and other acoustic samples?
> 
> What is the middle ground between being able to compose traditional orchestral scores where everything sits in a natural space, and being able to deviate from that in the form of a more experimental ‘mix and match’ approach?



I don't think I'd say BBCSO is not designed to be used in conjunction with other libraries.

It can serve as a cohesive orchestral core to what you're doing, whether or not you then add other elements into the mix (piano, choir, synths, etc.), but with the variety of mic choices you can probably also swap parts of the orchestra itself in and out with others with relative ease.

Much of the appeal of this library for me is *not* having to do that, but I'm sure most people with several dozen other orchestral selections will do so.


----------



## porrasm

cqd said:


> Even with just the one mic..man, this thing takes its time.. like, tbh, this is close enough to unusable with Pro tools..



Huh, loading all the instruments except percussion took me around 15 mins with 1 mic and I'm on an HDD. Could it be a bug?


----------



## dzilizzi

The RAM usage is a little worrying. I'm on Windows 10 and mostly ProTools. And? It is easy to deactivate tracks until I need them in PT for me.


----------



## D Halgren

Zedcars said:


> There’s lots of references to eDNA in the app code. Could be eDNA integration in a future update.


How do you see the code? Sorry for my stupidity


----------



## Sears Poncho

Robin said:


> Think E.T. Main Theme (high d).


It's a high Eb at the recap. I know the note, it's the one everybody plays out of tune.  Sure, there are plenty of notes in the rep. above C. Richard Strauss has lots. Even the last note of Prokofiev Classical Sym. is a high D. Don Juan first page, the crazy lick ends on D. On and on. All my Spitfire libs. stop at C, even solo strings. Huh. 

Personally, I never write that high. I like people, people seem to like me. I don't want to torture fiddle players. Notes that high cause nosebleeds.


----------



## dzilizzi

Sears Poncho said:


> It's a high Eb at the recap. I know the note, it's the one everybody plays out of tune.  Sure, there are plenty of notes in the rep. above C. Richard Strauss has lots. Even the last note of Prokofiev Classical Sym. is a high D. Don Juan first page, the crazy lick ends on D. On and on. All my Spitfire libs. stop at C, even solo strings. Huh.
> 
> Personally, I never write that high. I like people, people seem to like me. I don't want to torture fiddle players. Notes that high cause nosebleeds.


That answers my question. You can go that high, but do you want to? Maybe not.


----------



## Creoin

Sears Poncho said:


> It's a high Eb at the recap. I know the note, it's the one everybody plays out of tune.



This is good to know! What would you say is a good limit for reliable pitch in performed orchestral music (Violin sections)? I imagine for a soloist or divisi, you could push a little higher?


----------



## Creoin

ed buller said:


> just Mix 1



Are you doing one articulation per track? Did you remove the unused articulations in the instance in that case? Or did you change the settings to load more into RAM? I've loaded all instruments (a few twice), all articulations, on Mix 1 on Cubase and it came to just under 12GB RAM (I'm trying the key switching approach first).


----------



## ed buller

Creoin said:


> Are you doing one articulation per track? Did you remove the unused articulations in the instance in that case? Or did you change the settings to load more into RAM? I've loaded all instruments (a few twice), all articulations, on Mix 1 on Cubase and it came to just under 12GB RAM (I'm trying the key switching approach first).



Almost ALL art per PLUG instance. But midi per articulation . So The Cubase Session is Massive ( track count)...But I'm fed up of switching arts mid track.

e


----------



## Sears Poncho

dzilizzi said:


> That answers my question. You can go that high, but do you want to? Maybe not.


Probably not. Rehearsal time is usually "run it once". I just wrote Christmas orchestrations for a symphony show. 1 rehearsal, right before the gig. Number of string players that will even open the music folder? Maybe 3. 2 of them can't sight-read well and the Concertmaster will look for the word "solo" then close the folder if there aren't any. 


Creoin said:


> What would you say is a good limit for reliable pitch in performed orchestral music (Violin sections)? I imagine for a soloist or divisi, you could push a little higher?


A stand-up soloist i.e. concerto soloist, no real limit. They practice. There's a Paganini Caprice that goes up to C i.e. the C an octave above the Spitfire C. It's the highest I've ever seen written. Some concertos go up to the E or even above.

FOr orchestra, I can't recall writing anything higher than "A", meaning a third below the highest Spitfire C. I do that because I enjoy being hired over and over. If I were Bartok or had some piece on a classical concert with 4 rehearsals, I could write higher if needed. I'm not. I don't want rehearsal to stop and have a conductor yell "Violins, you're out of tune". Because bad. For me. 

JOhn Williams has parts that are extremely high. He's John Williams, he can do whatever he wants. They might sound fine when the London Symphony records them, but they have lots of rehearsal/recording time and they're the LSO. I've played the first 2 Harry Potter films with the movie. I'd never write anything that high or difficult, the fiddle players laugh, a nervous laugh. Again, he's John Williams. People might actually look at the part before the rehearsal.


----------



## bricop

is anybody having trouble getting Logic Articulation Sets working with BBCSO Player? I’ve set mine up as you would with Kontakt but doesn’t seem to communicate with the BBCSO player. Any thoughts?


----------



## ed buller

Finding the Bones wimpy now too !

e


----------



## ed buller

Bass Trombones are Much Better...And changing the mix DOES help, My Bad....Atmos seems to add welli...also a cheeky Pultec top and bottom !

e


----------



## gpax

redlester said:


> Is anyone using 1.0.3 yet and how is it? I'm sticking with 1.0.0 for the time being!



This is the wrong question to ask. Everyone should be using 1.0.3, or whatever the latest update is. These successive versions are not independent entities (like those who swear by an OS). The developer providing the fixes is not disconnected from their own prior efforts, but are addressing the issues being reported since its initial release. It’s not a trick or risk, or regressive experiment, and certainly with this being a new release, that 1.0.0 version you got has issues which were missed.


----------



## mistermister

gpax said:


> This is the wrong question to ask: Everyone should be using 1.0.3, or whatever the latest update is. These successive versions are not independent entities (like those who swear by an OS). The developer providing the fixes is not disconnected from their own prior efforts, but are addressing the issues being reported since its initial release. It’s not a trick or risk, or regressive experiment, and certainly with this being a new release, that 1.0.0 version you got has issues which were missed.


It's also sometimes good to wait on an update, though, in a production environment. New (worse) issues can be introduced ala 1.0.2...


----------



## gpax

mistermister said:


> It's also sometimes good to wait on an update, though, in a production environment. New (worse) issues can be introduced ala 1.0.2...


But this is a product that isn’t yet 48 hours old, the inference of the post being that of not trusting the very developers working to get out early fixes and updates. Your point is well-taken for time-tested configurations. Anyone already hanging their hat or presuming stability on this first take, however, at the expense of these stability improvements, is not understanding the point of these initial tweaks.


----------



## Zedcars

D Halgren said:


> How do you see the code? Sorry for my stupidity


EDIT: I'm not allowed to do this - just read the EULA. So decided to redact.


----------



## Andrew0568

How did people resolve Error #3? 

I accidentally tried loading BBCSO when my hard drive was disconnected. After, I received Error #3 and wasn't able to load any samples. Repaired all the folders in the Spitfire App, now I can load samples, but there is no sound output


----------



## Zedcars

Andrew0568 said:


> How did people resolve Error #3?
> 
> I accidentally tried loading BBCSO when my hard drive was disconnected. After, I received Error #3 and wasn't able to load any samples. Repaired all the folders in the Spitfire App, now I can load samples, but there is no sound output


That’s exactly what happened to me. Support had to remote in and did a load of magic stuff. Unfortunately I can’t recall what that was as he was going like the clappers!
The last thing was to install all the updates again.

I’m sure Support should be able to resolve it for you.


----------



## zolhof

Here are some interesting numbers comparing BBCSO to Berlin Strings. All multis, one section per BBCSO/Kontakt instance:

*BBCSO Strings + Leaders Mix 1*

Default Preload Size 12288
Default Stream Buffer Size 65536
Project file 1,720KB
5.70GB Plugin
25.6GB Resource Monitor (ACTUAL USAGE)
Loading Time 9:24 (Ready to play, glitch-free)









*BBCSO Strings + Leaders Mix 1*

Minimum Preload Size 1000
Minimum Stream Buffer Size 1000
Project file 1,720KB
1.40 Plugin
21.2GB Resource Monitor (ACTUAL USAGE)
Loading Time 7:25










*Berlin Strings (Tree) + First Chairs (C+T)*

Preload Buffer Size 24kb
Project file 77,847KB
16.9GB Resource Monitor
Loading Time 2:30

*Berlin Strings (Tree) + First Chairs (C+T)*

Preload Buffer Size 6kb
Project file 77,843KB
13.9GB Resource Monitor
Loading Time 2:27

*Berlin Strings (Tree) + First Chairs (C+T) PURGED *optimal settings

Preload Buffer Size 6kb
Project file 77,787KB
7.5GB Resource Monitor
Loading Time 1:25






Windows 10 Pro, Cubase 10, Samsung SSD 860 EVO 2TB

Due to limited time, I can't test the entire orchestra, but you get the picture.  Unless there's something wrong on my side (please do let me know), the Spitfire player is in dire need of optimization.


----------



## Soundhound

Does the template have all tracks active? Having them all deactivated would allow the whole thing to load quickly, wouldn't it? Won't have any effect on eventual ram usage of course...


----------



## Andrew0568

Andrew0568 said:


> How did people resolve Error #3?
> 
> I accidentally tried loading BBCSO when my hard drive was disconnected. After, I received Error #3 and wasn't able to load any samples. Repaired all the folders in the Spitfire App, now I can load samples, but there is no sound output



Clicked the gear icon in the Spitfire app next to each BBCSO section. Hit "Locate" and directed each section to its location on my drive. Fixed everything!

Opened up Christian's BBCSO Logic Template--boom, Error #3 back


----------



## justthere

I never had much luck running BS in section-per-instance of Kontakt. I have a template that does it that way, but it drops controllers and is sluggish on my 2013 12-Core MacPro with 128GB of RAM. It runs much better when it's articulation-per-instance. I'm building a new template that does that, though I'm in the middle of a show and haven't much time to do it, but preliminary tests on Violins 1 seem to indicate it's much more stable. 

But... The scripting in Capsule has likely far more calls than the programming in BBCSO. Not super-efficient. And it is curious how hungry BBCSO is for RAM - but I have a feeling that will be improved.

Me? I want to wait until they come out with the "Extreme Dynamics" add on, which has fast marcatos and sfz/martele strings and brass.

Also - in my experience with a lot of these libraries, if you have less RAM it uses less RAM. 



zolhof said:


> Here are some interesting numbers comparing BBCSO to Berlin Strings. All multis, one section per BBCSO/Kontakt instance:
> 
> *BBCSO Strings + Leaders Mix 1*
> 
> Default Preload Size 12288
> Default Stream Buffer Size 65536
> Project file 1,720KB
> 5.70GB Plugin
> 25.6GB Resource Monitor (ACTUAL USAGE)
> Loading Time 9:24 (Ready to play, glitch-free)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BBCSO Strings + Leaders Mix 1*
> 
> Minimum Preload Size 1000
> Minimum Stream Buffer Size 1000
> Project file 1,720KB
> 1.40 Plugin
> 21.2GB Resource Monitor (ACTUAL USAGE)
> Loading Time 7:25
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Berlin Strings (Tree) + First Chairs (C+T)*
> 
> Preload Buffer Size 24kb
> Project file 77,847KB
> 16.9GB Resource Monitor
> Loading Time 2:30
> 
> *Berlin Strings (Tree) + First Chairs (C+T)*
> 
> Preload Buffer Size 6kb
> Project file 77,843KB
> 13.9GB Resource Monitor
> Loading Time 2:27
> 
> *Berlin Strings (Tree) + First Chairs (C+T) PURGED *optimal settings
> 
> Preload Buffer Size 6kb
> Project file 77,787KB
> 7.5GB Resource Monitor
> Loading Time 1:25
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windows 10 Pro, Cubase 10, Samsung SSD 860 EVO 2TB
> 
> Due to limited time, I can't test the entire orchestra, but you get the picture.  Unless there's something wrong on my side (please do let me know), the Spitfire player is in dire need of optimization.


----------



## justthere

Hey folks - do the faders for mic positions have dedicated CC numbers to control them? and are they consistent across instruments? And...if you turn one down all the way does it purge?


----------



## CT

justthere said:


> Hey folks - do the faders for mic positions have dedicated CC numbers to control them? and are they consistent across instruments? And...if you turn one down all the way does it purge?



Yes, yes, and yes.


----------



## redlester

gpax said:


> But this is a product that isn’t yet 48 hours old, the inference of the post being that of not trusting the very developers working to get out early fixes and updates. Your point is well-taken for time-tested configurations. Anyone already hanging their hat or presuming stability on this first take, however, at the expense of these stability improvements, is not understanding the point of these initial tweaks.



Sorry but that was not the inference of my post. I accept this is a behemoth of a thread so you may have missed it, but earlier in the day Spitfire themselves advised people not to update to 1.0.2 as it was problematic, and to wait until 1.0.3. 

My post was merely to enquire if 1.0.3 had cleared up the problems for people.


----------



## justthere

miket said:


> Yes, yes, and yes.


Well, that’s good - it means if you record-enable all instruments, you can choose a different overall mix for everything all at once. Timesaver.


----------



## ed buller

49 Gig Fully Loaded...all instruments ( expect solo strings) with Mix1.

i'm going to bed

e


----------



## cqd

Yeah, I left mine to load up overnight..It's ready this morning..
85% of 64 gig of ram with all instruments.. including solo strings..


----------



## gpax

redlester said:


> Sorry but that was not the inference of my post. I accept this is a behemoth of a thread so you may have missed it, but earlier in the day Spitfire themselves advised people not to update to 1.0.2 as it was problematic, and to wait until 1.0.3.
> 
> My post was merely to enquire if 1.0.3 had cleared up the problems for people.


I absolutely did miss that detail, and the context of your post now makes sense in light of SA advising people to wait for a later patch. In isolation, I couldn’t figure out why the hesitation you expressed. Now I understand (and didn’t mean to ascribe inference). My apologies to both you and @mistermister for jumping the shark. I went straight from getting my SSD yesterday to the latest 1.0.3 update today, oblivious that a short-lived interim update had been problematic. Again, my apologies, though you are gracious in that this crazy long thread is partly to blame. I’m really not a bad guy.


----------



## synkrotron

dzilizzi said:


> The RAM usage is a little worrying. I'm on Windows 10 and mostly ProTools.




Hi 

Erm, would it be too much trouble to install REAPER and report back if RAM usage is "better?" Reason I'm asking is, REAPER is always touted as being "more efficient" (what ever that means).

I realise this is a big ask so please tell me to get lost if you think I'm being a bit too cheeky


----------



## redlester

gpax said:


> I absolutely did miss that detail, and the context of your post now makes sense in light of SA advising people to wait for a later patch. In isolation, I couldn’t figure out why the hesitation you expressed. Now I understand (and didn’t mean to ascribe inference). My apologies to both you and @mistermister for jumping the shark. I went straight from getting my SSD yesterday to the latest 1.0.3 update today, oblivious that a short-lived interim update had been problematic. Again, my apologies, though you are gracious in that this crazy long thread is partly to blame. I’m really not a bad guy.



No worries I did think you must have missed it. Context and nuances, especially on a massive thread like this, can be misleading and misinterpreted very easily. 

I went to 1.0.3 immediately before bed last night, after the positive responses, but have not fired it up yet.


----------



## gpax

redlester said:


> No worries I did think you must have missed it. Context and nuances, especially on a massive thread like this, can be misleading and misinterpreted very easily.
> 
> I went to 1.0.3 immediately before bed last night, after the positive responses, but have not fired it up yet.


And I’m about to sleep better on account of your reply.


----------



## I like music

Sears Poncho said:


> I've played the first 2 Harry Potter films with the movie.


Wait. Do you mean you played on the actual ****ing soundtrack?!?!


----------



## gpax

Where is this Logic template CH mentioned in his video, and which others are now testing?
EDIT: never mind, I found it.


----------



## Zero&One

gpax said:


> Where is this Logic template CH mentioned in his video, and which others are now testing?



https://www.spitfireaudio.com/thepage/


----------



## Sears Poncho

I like music said:


> Wait. Do you mean you played on the actual ****ing soundtrack?!?!


 No. Live in concert. They show the movie and a symphony plays the score live on stage. Doing 3 and 4 in the spring.


----------



## PerryD

SSD arrived last night and I did some stream-of-consciousness "writing" one track at a time. I am legally blind, and I found it not too hard to navigate. It won't replace most of what I have but there is definitely a cool BBC vibe in there. This is only BBC SO


----------



## jamwerks

prodigalson said:


> I also really feel the Solo Horn Leg and sustain dynamic crossfades are especially problematic. It’s really clear here that a 3rd dynamic layer would have made a huge difference. As of now, as soon as you get to just half way on CC1, that thin, brassy tone kicks in pretty instantly. Very disappointing as this was a problem in horn libraries 10 years ago...


That's the very reason I was thinking that even CSB's 4 layers weren't enough. For the horn especially and maybe even the trumpet, seems like 5 or maybe 6 layers would be necessary to catch the whole spectrum of timbral changes.


----------



## al_net77

Some RAM usage data in VEPro7 (Win10):

Template made simple, 4 VEPro instances (Strings, Winds, Brass and Perc), 1 mic for instrument (Mix 1)

All instruments disabled:






Percussions enabled only:






Winds enabled only:






Brass enabled only:






Strings enabled only:


----------



## al_net77

And finally all template loaded:


----------



## erikradbo

PerryD said:


> SSD arrived last night and I did some stream-of-consciousness "writing" one track at a time. I am legally blind, and I found it not too hard to navigate. It won't replace most of what I have but there is definitely a cool BBC vibe in there. This is only BBC SO




How do you navigate at all if blind? Even more impressive!


----------



## PerryD

erikradbo said:


> How do you navigate at all if blind? Even more impressive!


 Thanks.  "legally blind" so I can see stuff a couple inches from my monitor. I can't drive and I bump into things a lot. The Spitfire player is easier to read than Kontakt's micro fonts. :/ I would also like to thank Mike G for the white print on black background in Vi-Control!


----------



## Zedcars

Great interview by Sonicstate:


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Don't know if this has been mentioned - but to use the Marcatos properly - on Brass and Woodwinds at least, and some other arts - there is an option at the top right "..." if you click on that, you can then find an option called Short Releases - and switch from None , to Timed or Un Timed and then you will be able to control the release of the marcatos. Sounds alot better and easier to play this way. 

Also you can adjust other things here, like vel curve etc


----------



## gussunkri

Paul Jelfs said:


> Don't know if this has been mentioned - but to use the Marcatos properly - on Brass and Woodwinds at least, and some other arts - there is an option at the top right "..." if you click on that, you can then find an option called Short Releases - and switch from None , to Timed or Un Timed and then you will be able to control the release of the marcatos. Sounds alot better and easier to play this way.
> 
> Also you can adjust other things here, like vel curve etc


Could it be that Spitfire made a mistake in having this not be the default mode? The way Paul describes that feature in the walkthrough strongly suggest that that is how those articulations work by default.


----------



## PerryD

Zedcars said:


> Great interview by Sonicstate:



He mentions the "Carl Stalling Project". One of my favorite CD's. Session recordings from the original Warner Brothers cartoons. He was a demanding arranger / session master. There are even a couple pics of his scores...simply amazing chicken scratch! Very cool CD if you can find a copy.


----------



## widekeys

Paul Jelfs said:


> Don't know if this has been mentioned - but to use the Marcatos properly - on Brass and Woodwinds at least, and some other arts - there is an option at the top right "..." if you click on that, you can then find an option called Short Releases - and switch from None , to Timed or Un Timed and then you will be able to control the release of the marcatos. Sounds alot better and easier to play this way.
> 
> Also you can adjust other things here, like vel curve etc


Does this also affect the staccato and staccatissimo of the strings/woods/brass?


----------



## Zero&One

Must be weird (and an honour) for the musicians knowing their performances will be on countless tv, game and music productions. I wonder how many of them bought BBCSO to play themselves or friends.
Last part sounded filthy


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Great interview by Sonicstate:




This just illustrates the speed of this thread.

See page 218, post 4,350!


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> This just illustrates the speed of this thread.
> 
> See page 218, post 4,350!


OMG - I thought I'd read every word and seen every post in this gargantuan behemoth!

I might need to go back to the beginning and start again...

Apologies @vdk-john


----------



## redlester

Already am itching to get this moved off my hard disc and onto a SSD.

My only option interface wise is USB3, is there any speed advantage of going for a SATA SSD and a USB caddy or even docking station for future additions, as opposed to just a USB3 external drive?

I should point out the reason I didn't buy the Spitfire SSD was that I need to gradually move things over to a series of 2TB SSD's, so this would include BBC and lots of other libraries.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> OMG - I thought I'd read every word and seen every post in this gargantuan behemoth!
> 
> Apologies @vdk-john



The saddest thing of all is that I remembered that from Thursday!

Given I've just wasted most of Saturday morning having to go into work (after tracking down someone with keys) because I left my wallet in my desk drawer last night, that indicates where my brain is more focussed at present.


----------



## chocobitz825

Can we summarize here? Was it worth the wait?


----------



## Adam Takacs

If you know, please tell me, how can I activate two or more articulations at the same time via keyboard? In kontakt I only need to press two keyswith key, but in this new plugin it does not work for me.


----------



## Zedcars

tadam said:


> If you know, please tell me, how can I activate two or more articulations at the same time via keyboard? In kontakt I only need to press two keyswith key, but in this new plugin it does not work for me.


Shift-clicking works for me on the celli (Mac).


----------



## redlester

Yes, shift-click.

The green dot in the top left of each articulation shows which ones are selected.


----------



## Zedcars

Although, I'm wondering how you achieve the same thing with key-switching now...can't seem to make that work.


----------



## redlester

chocobitz825 said:


> Can we summarize here? Was it worth the wait?



You will probably get dozens of different answers to that. For me, definitely, I love the sound of it.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Although, I'm wondering how you achieve the same thing with key-switching now...can't seem to make that work.



I can't look right now, have agreed to go out with the love of my life to look at wallpaper selections! 

Do you not just press two keys at once (or insert notes for them in the piano roll) like the Kontakt instruments? Is this a "middle C" issue again?


----------



## Adam Takacs

Zedcars said:


> Although, I'm wondering how you achieve the same thing with key-switching now...can't seem to make that work.


Yes, that's the question. Shift click is not a solution, we need to activate the multi articulations via midi keyboard, but it's not working :(


----------



## Zedcars

tadam said:


> Yes, that's the question. Shift click is not a solution, we need to activate the multi articulations via midi keyboard


Sorry, misunderstood you meant MIDI keyboard! 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Adam Takacs

Zedcars said:


> Sorry, misunderstood you meant MIDI keyboard! 🤦‍♂️


Yes, sorry!


----------



## Zedcars

Launching another instance to achieve that would be a PITA. Maybe it's on their 'to do' list.


----------



## redlester

Just had time to check - can confirm it doesn't work for me either.

Doesn't work in Eric Whitacre Choir either, so it must be a limitation of the Spitfire plugin.


----------



## Zedcars

tadam said:


> Yes, that's the question. Shift click is not a solution, we need to activate the multi articulations via midi keyboard, but it's not working :(


Well, you can change the trigger on a per art basis, so, although not ideal, it would be a viable workaround for the moment.

So just change one of them to a CC trigger instead.


----------



## gtrwll

redlester said:


> Just had time to check - can confirm it doesn't work for me either.
> 
> Doesn't work in Eric Whitacre Choir either, so it must be a limitation of the Spitfire plugin.



That shouldn't be too hard (coding-wise) to implement, so hopefully we'll se it in a future update.


----------



## Adam Takacs

Zedcars said:


> Well, you can change the trigger on a per art basis, so, although not ideal, it would be a viable workaround for the moment.
> 
> So just change one of them to a CC trigger instead.


I will try, thank you!


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Zedcars said:


> Great interview by Sonicstate:



When will we see Andy Blaney on any of their videos?


----------



## MarcHedenberg

miket said:


> I don't think I'd say BBCSO is not designed to be used in conjunction with other libraries.
> 
> It can serve as a cohesive orchestral core to what you're doing, whether or not you then add other elements into the mix (piano, choir, synths, etc.), but with the variety of mic choices you can probably also swap parts of the orchestra itself in and out with others with relative ease.
> 
> Much of the appeal of this library for me is *not* having to do that, but I'm sure most people with several dozen other orchestral selections will do so.



I'm in the same boat. I wanted a plugin that I could use exclusively for 100% orchestral/classical compositions, but knowing that I can blend it with other forms of instrumentation for different genres is nice.


----------



## noiseinmymind

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> When will we see Andy Blaney on any of their videos?


Probably never. He seems like a private guy.


----------



## D Halgren

Zedcars said:


> I’m on a Mac, not sure if a similar thing is possible on Windows:
> 
> 1. Find the VST BBCSO plugin.
> 2. Right-click and select ‘Show Package Contents’.
> 3. Find the BBCSO unix executable file within Contents/MacOS.
> 4. Right-click and select Open With.
> 5. Choose Text Edit from the drop-down menu (you can also just drag the file itself onto the Text Edit app, but just be careful!). If Text Edit is not in the list then choose ‘Other’ and find the app when prompted.
> 6. The code will open.
> 7. Hit Command F to open the search bar and search for eDNA (or anything).
> 
> You will see a ton of eDNA effects listed.
> 
> Maida Vale impulse response also listed.
> 
> EDIT: Be careful to not make any accidental changes to the file or it will render it inoperable.


Thanks!


----------



## NoamL

In the spirit of COLLABORATION  but also as a challenge...

Does anyone want to mock up this violin excerpt with BBCSO V1+V2?



I have attached the MIDI excerpt (can't share the whole piece - copyright). It starts on bar 33. If you do mock it up, please delete all my keyswitches and CC data, don't just throw the MIDI at BBCSO and assume it will automatically translate because it won't!

Take some time with it as well - I will be surprised if BBCSO doesn't have to do some key switching to handle this excerpt. I'm just curious about how agile the library is with fast, marcato legatos, as that makes up quite a lot of the high string mockups I'm asked to do.

The original library is CSS. Here's the passage is in the context of a mockup:



and live:


----------



## AllanH

I had not found the helpful small videos covering various aspects of the BBCSO player. Despite the link title, there are also 4 videos:






BBC Symphony Orchestra Manuals







www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## Zero&One

redlester said:


> I can't look right now, have agreed to go out with the love of my life to look at wallpaper selections!



Post the potential samples here, we can vote on what you have shortlisted.
Are stripes back in season yet?


----------



## AllanH

I am doing the unthinkable and reading the manual


----------



## boxheadboy50

PerryD said:


> Thanks.  "legally blind" so I can see stuff a couple inches from my monitor.


Off topic, but are you in the US? If so, are you aware of this foundation?






Able Artist Foundation | Welcome







ableartist.org





It’s a foundation run by my composer friend Stephen Letnes (who is also legally blind) which aims to provide resources for artists with disabilities. It’s an amazing foundation and Steve is a great guy!


----------



## AllanH

Accessibility is really quite good: just grab the resize in the lower right of the player and the entire UI resizes to fit. This is really well done, and any "favorite" size can be made the default in settings.


----------



## Bluemount Score

AllanH said:


> Accessibility is really quite good: just grab the resize in the lower right of the player and the entire UI resizes to fit. This is really well done, and any "favorite" size can be made the default in settings.


Something Kontakt has always been missing. Many people were disappointed it still wasn't added with the release of Kontakt 6. The UI is so small overall... Spitfire Player has done this better right from the beginning. I like!


----------



## redlester

Bluemount Score said:


> Something Kontakt has always been missing. Many people were disappointed it still wasn't added with the release of Kontakt 6. The UI is so small overall... Spitfire Player has done this better right from the beginning. I like!



To be fair the basic design of Kontakt dates from a time when we were on little more than 1024x768 resolution. I've read previously on this subject that they would need to redesign it graphically from the ground up, but it certainly does need doing. How it would affect 3rd party libraries design would also come into the equation.


----------



## dzilizzi

synkrotron said:


> Hi
> 
> Erm, would it be too much trouble to install REAPER and report back if RAM usage is "better?" Reason I'm asking is, REAPER is always touted as being "more efficient" (what ever that means).
> 
> I realise this is a big ask so please tell me to get lost if you think I'm being a bit too cheeky


I don't have BBCSO. It is just a future planned purchase so I'm watching all this so I know what to expect.


----------



## synkrotron

dzilizzi said:


> I don't have BBCSO. It is just a future planned purchase so I'm watching all this so I know what to expect.



Ah! Sorry! When you said you were worried about memory usage I thought it was from experience... I realise now that your worry was based on all the posts about it here...

thanks


----------



## CT

I know this has been discussed before, but I can never get my head around it. 

I have enough space for this on my internal SSD, but it would leave little breathing room. I'm not against the idea of getting it on its own drive, but I'm concerned about whether or not the inputs my computer has will be up to the challenge. I'm still stuck with USB 2.0, and whatever generation of Thunderbolt iMacs had in 2011. 

The way that I work, I don't expect to have RAM problems. It's this storage question, and my pretty outdated CPU, that I'm wondering about, and if they could somehow combine if I don't handle the first one smartly.


----------



## Fleer

You can fill up your SSD if you’re only streaming from it but if it’s also your OS drive, I would keep 15% free to be on the safe side. Hope this helps.


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

Low RAM usage was a huge selling point for this library rollout and hype for the pre-sale. There was even a contest to guess what the preload RAM total would be within a decimal point. Christian said with all 55 instruments and all 418 articulations loaded the total was 11.4GB. The footprint in Logic was 25.25GB. Why are the RAM totals everyone else is seeing exceeding this number? I'd expect a fluctuation of maybe a few gigs depending on how closely the setup of buffer sizes matched Christian's suggested sizes. Why are some maxing out at over 64GB or like Ed mentioned 49GB fully loaded with Mix 1? 

Has anyone been able to replicate Christian's setup and load in Logic to confirm the 11.4GB?


----------



## Zero&One

Larry Hanshaw said:


> Has anyone been able to replicate Christian's setup and load in Logic to confirm the 11.4GB?



I loaded the template last night and it was about 12GB. My entire Mac session was around 22GB ish


----------



## CT

Fleer said:


> You can fill up your SSD if you’re only streaming from it but if it’s also your OS drive, I would keep 15% free to be on the safe side. Hope this helps.



Yeah, it's the system drive, which is why I'm hesitant about that even though there'd be a decent amount of free space still.


----------



## ed buller

Larry Hanshaw said:


> Low RAM usage was a huge selling point for this library rollout and hype for the pre-sale. There was even a contest to guess what the preload RAM total would be within a decimal point. Christian said with all 55 instruments and all 418 articulations loaded the total was 11.4GB. The footprint in Logic was 25.25GB. Why are the RAM totals everyone else is seeing exceeding this number? I'd expect a fluctuation of maybe a few gigs depending on how closely the setup of buffer sizes matched Christian's suggested sizes. Why are some maxing out at over 64GB or like Ed mentioned 49GB fully loaded with Mix 1?
> 
> Has anyone been able to replicate Christian's setup and load in Logic to confirm the 11.4GB?



I dunno what he was using in HIS template. The whole Library minus solo strings is 47Gb. I just did a quick test using an 16th note ositnato on all the strings and woods with stabs on the Brass and a snare and bass drum. And I'm getting unhappy sounds. My CPU is defiantly straining. It's a Four core, about 6 years old. I suspect on a newer i9 this would be fine.....But it's very resource heavy.........sounds wonderful though. Everything balances perfectly. I just send CC data 70 exp 70 Vol to all instances and max velocities and it just sounds real.......................fabulous !

best

ed


----------



## dzilizzi

Larry Hanshaw said:


> Low RAM usage was a huge selling point for this library rollout and hype for the pre-sale. There was even a contest to guess what the preload RAM total would be within a decimal point. Christian said with all 55 instruments and all 418 articulations loaded the total was 11.4GB. The footprint in Logic was 25.25GB. Why are the RAM totals everyone else is seeing exceeding this number? I'd expect a fluctuation of maybe a few gigs depending on how closely the setup of buffer sizes matched Christian's suggested sizes. Why are some maxing out at over 64GB or like Ed mentioned 49GB fully loaded with Mix 1?
> 
> Has anyone been able to replicate Christian's setup and load in Logic to confirm the 11.4GB?


I'm wondering if it is an AU vs VST vs AAX that is causing some of these differences. There are a lot of plugin makers that don't do AAX so I'm guessing it is more complicated?


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

James H said:


> I loaded the template last night and it was about 12GB. My entire Mac session was around 22GB ish


That's the most promising thing I've heard so far regarding RAM!

Are the higher numbers we're hearing from everyone else because they're loading in all the mic positions or is it because they're using a DAW other than Logic? 

Although pre-ordered, my SSD won't be here until sometime next week so I'm living vicariously through this thread. 

Luke's mockup sounded amazing. Probably the first real melodic type track we've heard from Spitfire using all bbcso samples.


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

ed buller said:


> I dunno what he was using in HIS template. The whole Library minus solo strings is 47Gb. I just did a quick test using an 16th note ositnato on all the strings and woods with stabs on the Brass and a snare and bass drum. And I'm getting unhappy sounds. My CPU is defiantly straining. It's a Four core, about 6 years old. I suspect on a newer i9 this would be fine.....But it's very resource heavy.........sounds wonderful though. Everything balances perfectly. I just send CC data 70 exp 70 Vol to all instances and max velocities and it just sounds real.......................fabulous !
> 
> best
> 
> ed


The sound and balance is exactly what I was looking for and hoping for in this library. The memory issue is is what I was most concerned about. Sure hope it gets sorted out soon so you can use it effectively, Ed.


----------



## PerryD

boxheadboy50 said:


> Off topic, but are you in the US? If so, are you aware of this foundation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Able Artist Foundation | Welcome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ableartist.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s a foundation run by my composer friend Stephen Letnes (who is also legally blind) which aims to provide resources for artists with disabilities. It’s an amazing foundation and Steve is a great guy!


 Yes, thank you. I am a member and they have been very helpful!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

NoamL said:


> In the spirit of COLLABORATION  but also as a challenge...
> 
> Does anyone want to mock up this violin excerpt with BBCSO V1+V2?


I'm happy you shared this Noam. I popped the midi into CSS in Logic. It's interesting to get a peek at the choices you made here, particularly the marcatos, when you used overlays, and when you switch to legato sustains for certain longs. It's not often that I get to see how other people approach these things.


----------



## Noeticus

I foresee the 5000th post coming quite soon!


----------



## ricoderks

Anyone knows when 1.0.3 is coming? Cant use it at all right now :-/


----------



## AllanH

Regarding memory use: I think it's worth noting that the default instruments load all articulations for JJ Mix 1. I have found, that memory consumption is cut in about half for strings by loading just the legato articulation. So for now, I'm reducing the template to just the legato articulations and will simply add additional arts, should a particular piece require it.


----------



## AllanH

ricoderks said:


> Anyone knows when 1.0.3 is coming? Cant use it at all right now :-/



For the player, that was released yesterday (Friday). I found a WW 1.0.2 update this morning.


----------



## Zedcars

ricoderks said:


> Anyone knows when 1.0.3 is coming? Cant use it at all right now :-/


It’s been out since yesterday.


----------



## ricoderks

Zedcars said:


> It’s been out since yesterday.


Thats odd. Cant see it. Restarted my computer and everything


----------



## Fleer

It’s a trick or treat thing.


----------



## Zedcars

ricoderks said:


> Thats odd. Cant see it. Restarted my computer and everything


Have you tried the Refresh option in the menu? Command R on a Mac, and presumably Control R on Windows?

The other thing I would try is logging out and in of the app.


----------



## ed buller

ricoderks said:


> Anyone knows when 1.0.3 is coming? Cant use it at all right now :-/


it's out...works fine

e


----------



## NoamL

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I'm happy you shared this Noam. I popped the midi into CSS in Logic. It's interesting to get a peek at the choices you made here, particularly the marcatos, when you used overlays, and when you switch to legato sustains for certain longs. It's not often that I get to see how other people approach these things.



Yep - often do stuff like that. The downside is it takes more time but I like having many options per note for sustain samples in different styles. PS - for non-legato sustains lower the decay/release envelope in the GUI to 65 or so - better for fast passages.


----------



## ricoderks

ed buller said:


> it's out...works fine
> 
> e


It works fine because you have it, i don't. Even repairing the library installs 1.0.2 over here. Loggin out and in does not help.


----------



## ed buller

Uninstall the Spitfire app completely. Make sure it's gone. Re Install then Scan your drive . If you are using the SSD make sure the path is set up in the app properly. Then repair all elements.

best

e


----------



## ricoderks

ed buller said:


> Uninstall the Spitfire app completely. Make sure it's gone. Re Install then Scan your drive . If you are using the SSD make sure the path is set up in the app properly. Then repair all elements.
> 
> best
> 
> e


Thanks for thinking along. Did not help unfortunately


----------



## Zedcars

ricoderks said:


> It works fine because you have it, i don't. Even repairing the library installs 1.0.2 over here. Loggin out and in does not help.


Mac or PC? You might want to try removing the most recent Log file and see if it helps. If it doesn't help, put in back in the folder and wait on tech support.

Mac path: /Users/USERNAME/Library/Logs/com.spitfireaudio
Windows Path: ?


----------



## AndyP

chocobitz825 said:


> Can we summarize here? Was it worth the wait?


Ask again in a couple of weeks ...


----------



## synkrotron

For Windows it could be C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\Spitfire Audio\Settings\lm.log


----------



## AllanH

Zedcars said:


> ...
> 
> Mac path: /Users/USERNAME/Library/Logs/com.spitfireaudio
> Windows Path: ?



I found mine in: 
C:\Users\<USER>\AppData\Roaming\Spitfire Audio\Settings

The lm.log file only seems to contain information from today's install, so that's good place to start looking for error messages.


----------



## MikeRolls

AndyP said:


> Ask again in a couple of weeks ...



By which time the introductory offer will have ended :(


----------



## synkrotron

MikeRolls said:


> By which time the introductory offer will have ended :(



Then follows Black Friday


----------



## PerryD

ricoderks said:


> Anyone knows when 1.0.3 is coming? Cant use it at all right now :-/


 I installed 1.0.3 last night. Working well in Studio One / PC.


----------



## Zedcars

ricoderks said:


> It works fine because you have it, i don't. Even repairing the library installs 1.0.2 over here. Loggin out and in does not help.


Also, Make sure you have the most recent Spitfire Audio App 3.1.7:






Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Audio app


Download the Spitfire Audio App to start your Spitfire journey. This intuitive desktop application enables you to install and update your Spitfire products with ease.




www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## synkrotron

Zedcars said:


> Also, Make sure you have the most recent Spitfire Audio App 3.1.7:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Audio app
> 
> 
> Download the Spitfire Audio App to start your Spitfire journey. This intuitive desktop application enables you to install and update your Spitfire products with ease.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spitfireaudio.com



On Windows, as soon as you open the app, if there is an update, you have to proceed with that before the app opens.

I think...


----------



## Zedcars

AllanH said:


> I found mine in:
> C:\Users\<USER>\AppData\Roaming\Spitfire Audio\Settings
> 
> The lm.log file only seems to contain information from today's install, so that's good place to start looking for error messages.


Pretty sure the app compares the log files with the relevant mothership files. Something may be screwy with them.

EDIT: That's just a guess on my part - may be way off there!!


----------



## TeamLeader

Need some help. How do we unauthorized a mac for BBC? We did our install to an office mac for download speed. Just moved it all to our two production macs, but need to de-auth the office mac now.

THanks!


----------



## TeamLeader

ed buller said:


> Uninstall the Spitfire app completely. Make sure it's gone. Re Install then Scan your drive . If you are using the SSD make sure the path is set up in the app properly. Then repair all elements.
> 
> best
> 
> e


 How is that uninstall app done??? You mean the download manager???


----------



## ed buller

TeamLeader said:


> How is that uninstall app done??? You mean the download manager???


i'm on a pc but this was a suggestion for someone else. To Re-Install the spitfire App

e


----------



## Sovereign

chocobitz825 said:


> Can we summarize here? Was it worth the wait?


It has some obvious shortcomings and to some degree there's a bit of disappointment (for me at least) as I saw them coming from a mile away. You can't really play soft (lyrical) pieces in ppp or pp. The dynamics are just not there. CSS does that kind of stuff better, or even VSL Synchron which sounds really nice in those low dynamics. BBCSO also is stuck in the past for not having sampled any legato repetitions. Any lyrical lines with repeating notes, forget it. There are certain things I've come to expect from a modern library, and some of it is not included. Even if SFA were not to improve on those things it is still a capable library, but be aware of its limitations. The samples, as always, dictate pretty much what you can write.


----------



## dzilizzi

MikeRolls said:


> By which time the introductory offer will have ended :(


And Xmas wishlist sale. Both will be at the intro price per Spitfire.


----------



## babylonwaves

Hey guys,

I just wanted to let you know that *Art Conductor 5.4 supports the BBC library* and is ready for download.

Have a good weekend, Marc


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

NoamL said:


> In the spirit of COLLABORATION  but also as a challenge...
> 
> Does anyone want to mock up this violin excerpt with BBCSO V1+V2?




Wow, the violins excerpt is great. I don't have the library, didn't know that CSS could sound like this ...

Is it possible to have the mp3 excerpt, too? And if you don't mind... which microphones were used?


----------



## ed buller

chocobitz825 said:


> Can we summarize here? Was it worth the wait?



Definitely

this is for me a wonderful Library. Not since the Original QLSO which was way ahead of its time and ruinously expensive has a Full Orch library arrived that sounds like an Orchestra. The room is wonderful. Nice and Tight. On a par with Abbey road 1 ( in fact a bit bigger ) but has none of the wash and Boom of Air. 

Load up the instruments and send vol and exp the same to everyone and ride the mod wheel to taste. It all fits together beautifully. Mix 1 is the most realistic. Mix 2 has a more processed sound to me. 


The Player:

I love the BBC Player. It's easy to use ( much better than Kontakt ) the DUI is Large and friendly and makes total sense. The ease of changing mixes and moving mic levels is fantastic and all CC controllable.
Saving your patches is Very straightforward as is removing arts to save memory.

The Samples:

Corners have been cut. The legato's are fine but basic. The shorts are very good and the distinction between Spicc and Stacc is strong. The Ports and Marcartos are weak, and the releases need tweeking. For the most part cross-fades between layers are opaque with the occasional mess..nothing egregious .

The weakest area is the Perc. This is very basic. You have what you need but there is very little oomph. The harp Celeste and Vibes are JUST what is needed ..nothing more...The glisses are an afterthought.

the Brass lacks the top Dynamics on the shorts for most instruments. It just sounds weak compared to how it could sound.

but none of this detracts from what is there. I have struggled for eons making templates with my pretty exhaustive collection of libraries. I always have to use tons of effects and reverbs and eq's to get everyone to play well together...and still it sounds like animation.........this sounds like a play...just everyone together in a good size room.

i would buy it at full price !

best

ed


----------



## porrasm

Does anyone have this installed on an NVMe drive? My HDD is painfully slow and I need to buy an SSD.


----------



## redlester

OK I haven't fully finished with testing it all but this is my experience of loading Christian's Logic "Hybrid" template, on a 16GB RAM 2012 i7 Mac Mini.

Loaded up the template as supplied, followed his instructions for the custom icons (I normally have icons turned off in my track header options, but what the hell). This loads up with everything ready to go, but all instances turned off.

I then turned on each complete track stack, and as I did so noted down the figures for "Memory Used" in the Activity Monitor, as follows:

Initial load: 7.18GB
Winds stack added: 11.94GB
Brass stack added: 13.30GB
Keys stack added: 13.16GB
Perc stack added: 12.35GB
Strings stack added: 11.88GB

No idea why it went down after some of them.

I then opened an instance of the plugin on one of the tracks and could see it was flashing away top left, in other words samples still loading. At this point I went away and had a meal and watched some TV for an hour.

When I came back it had stopped flashing, and the "Mem" figure on the plugin states 11.5GB, on each individual instance.

My Activity Monitor is now as below:





I seem to be able to play all tracks and hear them, but am not sure if the memory figure is being affected as I do so. There is a bit of glitching each time I play a different track/ articulation for the first time. I don't know enough about memory but guessing that could be to do with the "Swap Used" figure?

In short though, if this is possible on a machine of my low spec, it should easily run on one of your 64 or 128GB i9 monsters!


----------



## PerryD

Really liking BBCSO the more I play with it. I usually do one Christmas piece for friends & family. I was messing with O Holy Night and it sounds really sweet. I will be using a few of my other favorite libraries. I was able to get a Pianoteq Steingraeber grand to blend very well. I was just at an Atlanta Symphony concert a couple weeks ago...getting a very similar sound.


----------



## AndyP

What annoys me is when I connect my external SSD from iMac to the MacBook afterwards, or vice versa, I get error 1 every time and have to repair the lib.


----------



## ed buller

AndyP said:


> What annoys me is when I connect my external SSD from iMac to the MacBook afterwards, or vice versa, I get error 1 every time and have to repair the lib.


Fuck..that's annoying

e


----------



## babylonwaves

redlester said:


> There is a bit of glitching each time I play a different track/ articulation for the first time. I don't know enough about memory but guessing that could be to do with the "Swap Used" figure?


you mac swaps memory to disc. that's why you get the glitches. you can see there is compressed memory, which means the data is not in your RAM at this point (or, if it is, it's not in a linear format). I don't think your template would work with 16GB without issues. if you add up the stacks, you get about 50gb of RAM requirement and that's probably what the entire library needs when loaded fully with the settings you're using.

the SF player allows you to adjust the preload and streaming buffers in a similar way Kontakt does. for instance in the HZ strings library, you can safely reduce those values when you work with an SSD and that will also save you a lot of RAM. i'm pretty sure that's the same with the BBC player but I don't have it in front of me right now, so better check for yourself.


----------



## CT

PerryD said:


> messing with O Holy Night



Heh, I just did an arrangement of that for my father last week, with lots of Albion V, Eric Whitacre Choir, etc... currently writing some more "traditionally" symphonic variations on another Christmas tune to have ready once I get BBCSO, to put it through its paces.


----------



## AndyP

ed buller said:


> Fuck..that's annoying
> 
> e


Repair works, but it's kind of unnecessary. Let's see what support has to say.


----------



## Zedcars




----------



## CT

If my calculations are correct, when this thread hits 5000 posts... you're gonna see some serious shit!


----------



## redlester

babylonwaves said:


> you mac swaps memory to disc. that's why you get the glitches. you can see there is compressed memory, which means the data is not in your RAM at this point (or, if it is, it's not in a linear format). I don't think your template would work with 16GB without issues. if you add up the stacks, you get about 50gb of RAM requirement and that's probably what the entire library needs when loaded fully with the settings you're using.



Understand that, and there is no way I would try to work with it as described in my post, i.e. everything loaded at once. This was an experiment for others to compare, and I was particularly answering post 4,937 from Larry Hanshaw regarding Christian's 11.4GB figure.

If what Christian is referencing is the figure stated in the plugin memory display, I can confirm that's almost spot on. I haven't got time right this moment to go back to Christian's video to check.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

What I found out about RAM usage is: If you open one plugin and play around with different patches, the RAM grows and grows and grows, the more patches I try the higher it goes. The plugin seems to never release memory.
Which means after playing around for an hour the plugin uses up all my memory while at this time for example only the marimba is loaded. So be aware that changing the instrument/patch (or however it is called in SF player) might increase RAM usage despite not being used.
I found this out while testing different instruments in one plugin instance.


----------



## prodigalson

For anyone thinking of using Christians template, the key switches are a mess. They’re all over the place. e.g Long on one patch is totally different on another. No consistency or seemingly any scheme I can deduce. 

I’m going to have to go through each patch and customize all the key switches for each articulation.


----------



## synkrotron

prodigalson said:


> For anyone thinking of using Christians template, the key switches are a mess. They’re all over the place. e.g Long on one patch is totally different on another. No consistency or seemingly any scheme I can deduce.
> 
> I’m going to have to go through each patch and customize all the key switches for each articulation.



I'm surprised, to be honest. I've watched pretty much all of @christianhenson template videos and a lot of time was put into that, and not just Christian.

Might be an idea to raise this directly with the main man?


----------



## jbuhler

ed buller said:


> Definitely
> 
> this is for me a wonderful Library. Not since the Original QLSO which was way ahead of its time and ruinously expensive has a Full Orch library arrived that sounds like an Orchestra. The room is wonderful. Nice and Tight. On a par with Abbey road 1 ( in fact a bit bigger ) but has none of the wash and Boom of Air.
> 
> Load up the instruments and send vol and exp the same to everyone and ride the mod wheel to taste. It all fits together beautifully. Mix 1 is the most realistic. Mix 2 has a more processed sound to me.
> 
> 
> The Player:
> 
> I love the BBC Player. It's easy to use ( much better than Kontakt ) the DUI is Large and friendly and makes total sense. The ease of changing mixes and moving mic levels is fantastic and all CC controllable.
> Saving your patches is Very straightforward as is removing arts to save memory.
> 
> The Samples:
> 
> Corners have been cut. The legato's are fine but basic. The shorts are very good and the distinction between Spicc and Stacc is strong. The Ports and Marcartos are weak, and the releases need tweeking. For the most part cross-fades between layers are opaque with the occasional mess..nothing egregious .
> 
> The weakest area is the Perc. This is very basic. You have what you need but there is very little oomph. The harp Celeste and Vibes are JUST what is needed ..nothing more...The glisses are an afterthought.
> 
> the Brass lacks the top Dynamics on the shorts for most instruments. It just sounds weak compared to how it could sound.
> 
> but none of this detracts from what is there. I have struggled for eons making templates with my pretty exhaustive collection of libraries. I always have to use tons of effects and reverbs and eq's to get everyone to play well together...and still it sounds like animation.........this sounds like a play...just everyone together in a good size room.
> 
> i would buy it at full price !
> 
> best
> 
> ed


This is good to hear. How consistently does the midi port across instruments? Do you have to reprogram everything or do the Modwheel and velocities map relatively consistently.


----------



## bvaughn0402

synkrotron said:


> I'm surprised, to be honest. I've watched pretty much all of @christianhenson template videos and a lot of time was put into that, and not just Christian.
> 
> Might be an idea to raise this directly with the main man?



And it is more like ver 1.0 of it. It took a lot of time/work to get it there. I'm sure with feedback, it will be amazing in a few months.


----------



## jbuhler

prodigalson said:


> For anyone thinking of using Christians template, the key switches are a mess. They’re all over the place. e.g Long on one patch is totally different on another. No consistency or seemingly any scheme I can deduce.
> 
> I’m going to have to go through each patch and customize all the key switches for each articulation.


Yes, this is one of my complaints with many SF libraries. I was hoping BBCSO would be better in this respect.


----------



## Jannoh

Okay, so i encountered a problem which i think i haven't seen anyone mention yet in this thread.
I often get a crackling sound when i change one or multiple notes. 
But since i have a fairly strong pc (128Gb RAM, 2x 2,9GHz CPU, Samples stored on an internal SSD) 
and i never had this issue before with kontakt and other vsts it has to be a problem of the BBC SO plugin.
Does anyone else have the same issue, or knows a possible fix for this ?


----------



## AndyP

Changing the Marcato release, has anyone found out yet?

The Staccato Horns work best when the exponential velocity curve is selected. Since I like to have sustains with the staccatos (selected both articulations) it would be good if the release time could be adjusted. But I don't find the function.


----------



## Zero&One

jbuhler said:


> Yes, this is one of my complaints with many SF libraries. I was hoping BBCSO would be better in this respect.



I think the general patches are consistent, not 100%. The problem I think is the template, as they deleted certain articulations to make generic longs, shorts etc. In doing so, there's different gaps in switches depending on the original patch. If that makes sense?


----------



## Zedcars

AndyP said:


> Changing the Marcato release, has anyone found out yet?


I read that as “Eating macaroni cheese”.

I think I need an early night.


----------



## AndyP

Zedcars said:


> I read that as “Eating macaroni cheese”.
> 
> I think I need an early night.


Not the worst way to read it.


----------



## ed buller

jbuhler said:


> This is good to hear. How consistently does the midi port across instruments? Do you have to reprogram everything or do the Modwheel and velocities map relatively consistently.


They are set for everything. Just ride modwheel

e


----------



## MaxOctane

Zedcars said:


> Hold on to your butts...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...we're about to break 5K!



I think so, yes!


----------



## AndyP

Short release (timed) is nice, but not enough. I would like to adjust the release myself ...


----------



## babylonwaves

prodigalson said:


> For anyone thinking of using Christians template, the key switches are a mess. They’re all over the place. e.g Long on one patch is totally different on another. No consistency or seemingly any scheme I can deduce.


the KS in the download version of the instruments are actually in good shape as far as i can tell, better than older SF player libraries in terms of consistency. I didn't check his template, maybe it contains different versions of the presets?


----------



## jbuhler

James H said:


> I think the general patches are consistent, not 100%. The problem I think is the template, as they deleted certain articulations to make generic longs, shorts etc. In doing so, there's different gaps in switches depending on the original patch. If that makes sense?


Yes, that makes sense.


----------



## Architekton

Free BBCSO for everyone!!! Over 5000 posts


----------



## TGV

Architekton said:


> Free BBCSO for everyone!!! Over 5000 posts


That's a cheap offer: now that we know there's no bass piccolo, that the vibrato of the marimba legatos jumps and that the horns a4 sfz con legno articulation sounds more like a bassoon/trombone ensemble, nobody wants to have it anymore.


----------



## AndyP

I hope SA brings an update for the player where you can paint the velocity curve yourself. This would give the supper a bit more fine-tuning. Even Play can do this.


----------



## synkrotron

MaxOctane said:


> I think so, yes!



Congratulations!


----------



## vash1122

Jannoh said:


> Okay, so i encountered a problem which i think i haven't seen anyone mention yet in this thread.
> I often get a crackling sound when i change one or multiple notes.
> But since i have a fairly strong pc (128Gb RAM, 2x 2,9GHz CPU, Samples stored on an internal SSD)
> and i never had this issue before with kontakt and other vsts it has to be a problem of the BBC SO plugin.
> Does anyone else have the same issue, or knows a possible fix for this ?



Try restarting your computer if you haven't. I was having some crackling issues as well but they cleared up after a restart.


----------



## AllanH

Manuel Stumpf said:


> What I found out about RAM usage is: If you open one plugin and play around with different patches, the RAM grows and grows and grows, the more patches I try the higher it goes. The plugin seems to never release memory.
> Which means after playing around for an hour the plugin uses up all my memory while at this time for example only the marimba is loaded. So be aware that changing the instrument/patch (or however it is called in SF player) might increase RAM usage despite not being used.
> I found this out while testing different instruments in one plugin instance.



My experience is similar, but not entirely: If I disable a track in cubase, the memory is released. If I remove a loaded articulation, some memory is released, but seemingly not all of it.


----------



## Jannoh

vash1122 said:


> Try restarting your computer if you haven't. I was having some crackling issues as well but they cleared up after a restart.


Already tried that, but it didn't help.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

AllanH said:


> My experience is similar, but not entirely: If I disable a track in cubase, the memory is released. If I remove a loaded articulation, some memory is released, but seemingly not all of it.


Disabling a Cubase track usually unloads the complete plugin if I am not mistaken.
But you are right, saying it never releases memory was a little bit exaggerated. When switching off mic positions memory usage falls indeed.
But if I keep noodling around with different instruments within a single plugin instance, in the end the memory shown in the GUI is some 100Mb but it consumes way more than 10GB easily (closing a plugin being in this state takes sometimes minutes). But it does not happen always, so probably difficult to reproduce.


----------



## jononotbono

So... What's the verdict so far... from people that have actually bought it and now tried it? Very much looking forward to buying this within the week.


----------



## porrasm

Manuel Stumpf said:


> What I found out about RAM usage is: If you open one plugin and play around with different patches, the RAM grows and grows and grows, the more patches I try the higher it goes. The plugin seems to never release memory.
> Which means after playing around for an hour the plugin uses up all my memory while at this time for example only the marimba is loaded. So be aware that changing the instrument/patch (or however it is called in SF player) might increase RAM usage despite not being used.
> I found this out while testing different instruments in one plugin instance.


I have this same problem. I had to restart my DAW to continue testing.


----------



## MillsMixx

I see Daniel James is taking it for a test drive on Twitch right now.


----------



## AndyP

jononotbono said:


> So... What's the verdict so far... from people that have actually bought it and now tried it? Very much looking forward to buying this within the week.


I like the library. I can also get used with the horns. With a little screwing on the settings they are ok, not intoxicating, but ok.
The sound is very good, the leader strings, strings in general I like best.

I also have no problems with increasing memory. 

I would still like to have a few possibilities to refine the sounds. For example an ADSR. But on the whole a good buy.


----------



## ed buller

AndyP said:


> I like the library. I can also get used with the horns. With a little screwing on the settings they are ok, not intoxicating, but ok.
> The sound is very good, the leader strings, strings in general I like best.
> 
> I also have no problems with increasing memory.
> 
> I would still like to have a few possibilities to refine the sounds. For example an ADSR. But on the whole a good buy.



yes the strings are sensational. I hope they have more recordings and release some extras...i'd pay real money...they just blend so well and have a lovely full body to them...no need for any eq at all....

e


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> I'm going to sign out of this thread now until release day when I will tune back in, as you lot are attempting to make me buy a library I don't require.
> 
> I'll leave you with this though. Post release, *I promise to Amazon Prime a tin of Quality Street to the first (UK based) member who posts an audio example of the sleigh bells, ALL MICS.*
> 
> You can hold me to this. Laters!
> A



Alex, did anyone win this yet? I've lost track.

Anyway I just very quickly knocked this up just now, this is the sleigh bells with a little bit of all available mics turned on!


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> Alex, did anyone win this yet? I've lost track.
> 
> Anyway I just very quickly knocked this up just now, this is the sleigh bells with a little bit of all available mics turned on!


The news at 10 from the BBC, presented by Santa Claus.


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> Alex, did anyone win this yet? I've lost track.
> 
> Anyway I just very quickly knocked this up just now, this is the sleigh bells with a little bit of all available mics turned on!


The perfect use of your new £700 library! I’ve lost track of the thread but I think this is the first. PM your address! 😅


----------



## Pontus Rufelt

another example with mostly BBC strings. It has one line of Jaeger violins and Scoring Synth bass as well.


----------



## schrodinger1612

is it quite versatile in its style; a good all rounder that can go from ‘edge of silence’ to epic? I prefer the former, and thus was considering Albion V, but I’d like the option to go epic, plus I don’t like how the ambience is baked into the samples on the Albions

The BBC orchestra could be a strong contender for my first orchestral library.

I’m guessing these specs are sufficient...


CPU
Intel Core i7 (2nd Gen) 2720QM / 2.2 GHz
Max Turbo Speed
3.3 GHz
Number of Cores
Quad-Core
RAM 16GB


----------



## cqd

@Frank...I wouldn't recommend it as a first library..16 g nowhere near enough..player is a pain in the hole...


----------



## schrodinger1612

cqd said:


> @Frank...I wouldn't recommend it as a first library..16 g nowhere near enough..player is a pain in the hole...



What would you recommend as a first library? Ideally I’d like something just as comprehensive, that I’m not going to end up replacing further down the line anyway..


----------



## cqd

I dont know..probably nucleus atm..or EW Hollywood Orch..Or well, CSS/CSB/CSWW whenever its out..

But, your system wont handle this..my template of it fills 55gb ram..can only use 1 mic at that..takes ages to load..player's very clunky..


----------



## AllanH

I have an odd experience with the Trumpets a3: To me, they all sound tuned low by ~15-20 cents. Cubase's tuner seems to agree with me, so I was hoping that someone could take a close listen and let me know if I'm totally off or if I somehow changed something.

Horns a4 seems fine and essentially in tune with my pianos.

Very odd.


----------



## CT

Listening to some relevant recordings tonight... I'm an awful tease to myself.


----------



## Grilled Cheese

Sovereign said:


> You can't really play soft (lyrical) pieces in ppp or pp. The dynamics are just not there.


It‘s a shame to hear that, and a surprise. I recall Christian Henson saying in an earlier video that “The magic in sampling happens at the softest dynamics“ (I’m paraphrasing). This is something I’ve always agreed with. I often compose very gentle music and those softer dynamics are so important to me.

Still sitting on the fence with BBCSO.


----------



## chocobitz825

Frank Costabile said:


> What would you recommend as a first library? Ideally I’d like something just as comprehensive, that I’m not going to end up replacing further down the line anyway..



Amadeus or Nucleus are safe bets. Shouldn’t be too heavy on the system, and both have pretty great options.

I still recommend considering Red Room Audio’s Palette with the Melodics expansion. You get full and chamber sizes, solo instruments and a lot of great options within the library, with potential for adding it to instruments you get later down the line. It’s for sketching so the way you compose might be different than other libraries but its a very impressive library Nonetheless.


----------



## ag75

Alex Fraser said:


> The perfect use of your new £700 library! I’ve lost track of the thread but I think this is the first. PM your address! 😅


I love this community.


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

Daniel James just finished up about 7 hours on Twitch going thru the entire library. Should be on YouTube tomorrow broken up into 3 or 4 videos. Definitely worth checking out. It was good to know what to expect when my SSD shows up in a few days


----------



## AllanH

Frank Costabile said:


> What would you recommend as a first library? Ideally I’d like something just as comprehensive, that I’m not going to end up replacing further down the line anyway..



I would seriously consider the Spitfire BBCSO. To me, it's the best all-around value and quality. It has a fantastic tone, imo. I would also take a look at Hollywood Orchestra (my goto). Hollywood Orchestra is not complete and has more of a studio sound.


----------



## schrodinger1612

cqd said:


> I dont know..probably nucleus atm..or EW Hollywood Orch..Or well, CSS/CSB/CSWW whenever its out..
> 
> But, your system wont handle this..my template of it fills 55gb ram..can only use 1 mic at that..takes ages to load..player's very clunky..





chocobitz825 said:


> Amadeus or Nucleus are safe bets. Shouldn’t be too heavy on the system, and both have pretty great options.
> 
> I still recommend considering Red Room Audio’s Palette with the Melodics expansion. You get full and chamber sizes, solo instruments and a lot of great options within the library, with potential for adding it to instruments you get later down the line. It’s for sketching so the way you compose might be different than other libraries but its a very impressive library Nonetheless.



Thanks for the suggestions. Thing is, as good as those libraries probably are, wouldn’t it be preferable to go straight for the ‘big time’ libs if I’m just going to end up upgrading anyway further down the line?

And can anyone else vouch for 16GB of RAM not being enough to run the bbc symphony? I checked their site and the minimum requirement is listed as 8. My laptop has capacity for 32GB...


----------



## dzilizzi

Larry Hanshaw said:


> Daniel James just finished up about 7 hours on Twitch going thru the entire library. Should be on YouTube tomorrow broken up into 3 or 4 videos. Definitely worth checking out. It was good to know what to expect when my SSD shows up in a few days


Thanks, I was going to watch it, but got busy and forgot. He usually posts it on YouTube. 7 hours would have killed me. I don't have that attention span anymore. Was it good?


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

dzilizzi said:


> Thanks, I was going to watch it, but got busy and forgot. He usually posts it on YouTube. 7 hours would have killed me. I don't have that attention span anymore. Was it good?


It was good and it was fair. It was a first use for him, he had just finished downloading and installing before going live. If you want to know what to expect, as if you were going through it yourself, it's worth the time to watch


----------



## chocobitz825

Frank Costabile said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. Thing is, as good as those libraries probably are, wouldn’t it be preferable to go straight for the ‘big time’ libs if I’m just going to end up upgrading anyway further down the line?
> 
> And can anyone else vouch for 16GB of RAM not being enough to run the bbc symphony? I checked their site and the minimum requirement is listed as 8. My laptop has capacity for 32GB...



That’s essentially the problem, a big time library needs a big time system in most cases. If you keep hitting a wall while trying to write, you‘re gonna compensate by writing differently, or wasting time trying to get your tracks to run smoothly. reality is, big time library doesnt mean its the right library for you, and it might take some time to figure out what you really want or not. 

Given how much of this industry is based in Kontakt libraries, I’d say there is a major benefit to starting with a kontakt based library vs. Spitfire’s player as well. BBCSO wont be a bad buy, but you might get it and end up realizing you still want/need something else anyway...

so just dont let temptation drive too much of your decision making process...especially with the reviews here...realistically this is not a perfect, nor revolutionary library contrary to what hype says.


----------



## dzilizzi

Frank Costabile said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. Thing is, as good as those libraries probably are, wouldn’t it be preferable to go straight for the ‘big time’ libs if I’m just going to end up upgrading anyway further down the line?
> 
> And can anyone else vouch for 16GB of RAM not being enough to run the bbc symphony? I checked their site and the minimum requirement is listed as 8. My laptop has capacity for 32GB...


None of the full orchestras will work on 16GB RAM. I have that on my laptop and it freezes. I'd actually recommend VSL SE 1 Plus bundle to start. If you can get 32 GB, BBCSO might worth trying. Depending on your DAW. Some seem to be more efficient than others. If you go with EWHO, stick with the Gold. The Diamond will need a minimum of 32 GB, whereas the Gold, in limited amounts may work with 16GB.

My opinion only: If you can't update to 32GB soon, get an inexpensive library like Amadeus on sale. I think it sounds awful, but it is rather cheap with a low RAM requirement. It's not great but you can learn enough until you can afford a better computer. Buying something that is an expensive starter library, unless it provides something else you can use later will be really annoying when you hit the limits of it. Something like The Orchestra may be good also. Sounds okay, not great. But the engine thing will be useful past the point you upgrade. Then save up for some better libraries. And? No perfect library exists yet. So listen to a lot of YouTube videos and ask questions.

Edit- and always wait for a sale, unless you can get student pricing. There are a lot of sales coming up.


----------



## schrodinger1612

Ok thanks for giving me a little perspective on this...I’ll look into the other options that have been suggested.


----------



## cqd

Just FYI..my i9 64g ram SSD rig is crapping out with BBCSO..


----------



## ed buller

Frank Costabile said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. Thing is, as good as those libraries probably are, wouldn’t it be preferable to go straight for the ‘big time’ libs if I’m just going to end up upgrading anyway further down the line?
> 
> And can anyone else vouch for 16GB of RAM not being enough to run the bbc symphony? I checked their site and the minimum requirement is listed as 8. My laptop has capacity for 32GB...




Get This http://www.soundsonline.com/symphonic-orchestra

still sounds fab

e


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

cqd said:


> Just FYI..my i9 64g ram SSD rig is crapping out with BBCSO..


Are you loading up the articulation patches or are you setting it up with a separate articulations per track? What DAW are you using? Mac or PC?


----------



## cqd

Larry Hanshaw said:


> Are you loading up the articulation patches or are you setting it up with a separate articulations per track? What DAW are you using? Mac or PC?



Yeah, that's all the articulations loaded, 1 instance per instrument..takes ages to load, and even then, has ended up distorting to where I've to restart the session..thats happened a few times at this stage..yeah, I'll have to do a stripped back version..maybe then it'll run..but seriously..there was a lot of talk of full templates not taking up too much space before the launch..all those extra mics are essentially useless when the one mic maxes out the system..


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

cqd said:


> Yeah, that's all the articulations loaded, 1 instance per instrument..takes ages to load, and even then, has ended up distorting to where I've to restart the session..thats happened a few times at this stage..yeah, I'll have to do a stripped back version..maybe then it'll run..but seriously..there was a lot of talk of full templates not taking up too much space before the launch..all those extra mics are essentially useless when the one mic maxes out the system..


I'm gonna be pissed if I can't run it. The whole thing was marketed as being easy on RAM. Won't know until next week when the ssd shows up. Does anything change if you change the buffer settings?


----------



## chocobitz825

Larry Hanshaw said:


> I'm gonna be pissed if I can't run it. The whole thing was marketed as being easy on RAM. Won't know until next week when the ssd shows up. Does anything change if you change the buffer settings?



its probably a statement that comes with an * attached. You probably wont use every single articulation in every project, and the player allows you to remove the ones you're not using. I imagine that helps lighten the load.


----------



## jononotbono

cqd said:


> Yeah, that's all the articulations loaded, 1 instance per instrument



How many articulations/tracks does this amount to?


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

chocobitz825 said:


> its probably a statement that comes with an * attached. You probably wont use every single articulation in every project, and the player allows you to remove the ones you're not using. I imagine that helps lighten the load.


I agree, that's what I'm counting on. Looking forward to other people's experiences over the next few days and weeks


----------



## 5Lives

I thought Christian’s templates had far less RAM usage - are folks not loading those?


----------



## dzilizzi

ed buller said:


> Get This http://www.soundsonline.com/symphonic-orchestra
> 
> still sounds fab
> 
> e


But wait until next month when it's on sale.


----------



## Eldhrimnir

Manuel Stumpf said:


> What I found out about RAM usage is: If you open one plugin and play around with different patches, the RAM grows and grows and grows, the more patches I try the higher it goes. The plugin seems to never release memory.
> Which means after playing around for an hour the plugin uses up all my memory while at this time for example only the marimba is loaded. So be aware that changing the instrument/patch (or however it is called in SF player) might increase RAM usage despite not being used.
> I found this out while testing different instruments in one plugin instance.



I believe I encountered the same issue. After playing around with patches for a while, I started adding 3-4 BBC instances to my VEP template. Then I saw in the task manager (Win 10) that my VEP template only took up around 25Gb, which made sense. But my Windows RAM total usage was suddenly up to around 50Gb. So...around 21 Gb RAM was lost in the aether (Cubase + other tasks take up around 4Gb). Haven't tried restarting the template yet, but I'll try tomorrow, and hopefully the ghost Gb's will be back.


----------



## dzilizzi

5Lives said:


> I thought Christian’s templates had far less RAM usage - are folks not loading those?


Christian's is on a Mac running Logic. So it doesn't work for other DAWs. Also, it seems the Windows version may not be as efficient? Not sure about that. But I think I've seen more complaints from Windows users. But it may be a DAW thing also and whether deactivating a track dumps the memory?


----------



## dzilizzi

I should say I don't own it yet. But I've been watching the comments


----------



## mistermister

Anyone tried different settings for the Preload and Stream Buffer sizes in the Settings dialog yet? I wonder if these will help with RAM usage.


----------



## jonesdip

Cubase Users. Alex Watson @agbwatson has posted the following with links to 3 Cubase Templates based on Christian's Logic Template. There is an All in One version, a Hybrid Version and a Stripped out version of the template which he is making available via links on the video and also on the "The Page" on Spitfire Audio website. Even if you don't have BBCSO they are a brilliant basis for learning Cubase routing and bussing. Thank you Alex.


----------



## Fleer

dzilizzi said:


> Christian's is on a Mac running Logic. So it doesn't work for other DAWs.


Does anyone know which LPX version (and surely not Catalina)?


----------



## Zero&One

Larry Hanshaw said:


> I'm gonna be pissed if I can't run it. The whole thing was marketed as being easy on RAM. Won't know until next week when the ssd shows up. Does anything change if you change the buffer settings?



2009 Mac with 48GB and it runs fine, everything loaded.
There is certainly different performance reports from different OS here. But these are fully loaded templates and not general use of the library. Dropping the buffer settings did reduce load time for me.
It’ll be absolutely fine


----------



## CT

James H said:


> 2009 Mac



Now this gives me hope. What's the CPU in that thing?


----------



## mikeh-375

redlester said:


> Alex Fraser said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to sign out of this thread now until release day when I will tune back in, as you lot are attempting to make me buy a library I don't require.
> 
> I'll leave you with this though. Post release, I promise to Amazon Prime a tin of Quality Street to the first (UK based) member who posts an audio example of the sleigh bells, ALL MICS.
> 
> You can hold me to this. Laters!
> A
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Alex, did anyone win this yet? I've lost track.
> 
> Anyway I just very quickly knocked this up just now, this is the sleigh bells with a little bit of all available mics turned on!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alex Fraser said:
> 
> 
> 
> The perfect use of your new £700 library! I’ve lost track of the thread but I think this is the first. PM your address! 😅
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *I'm going to report this to the CTB * in Whitehall......don't open the box @redlester *
> 
> Oh...and Cadbury's lied about the Queen's Royal Seal...no wait a minute, I mean BoJo lied to the Queen..yeah that's it...so there....
> 
> **Chocolate Terrorism Branch*
Click to expand...


----------



## redlester

For all with questions about RAM, see my posts numbers 4,978 and 4,987. I’m on a 16GB i7 using Logic and Christian’s “hybrid” template loads easily, it then simply is a question of what you turn on simultaneously and what you don’t. 

My first impression is it will certainly be usable with 16GB although obviously not with every patch/articulation loaded and ready to go, but then I never expected for a moment that would be the case. I don’t think I can do that with any orchestral library I own.

As always it will come down to how you like to work and what you want to do with it.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Fleer said:


> Does anyone know which LPX version (and surely not Catalina)?



Catalina wasn’t even released yet when Christian made most of his videos, including the one about RAM usage. His LPX version is likely 10.4.7 in most of the videos about BBCSO templates, but he has been building the templates since March 2018.


----------



## Zero&One

miket said:


> Now this gives me hope. What's the CPU in that thing?



2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon. I find no real difference to any other library I own.

I also think the key here opposed to other libs they release, is they (that's SA) will be actively using this on projects. So bugs & performance will be addressed much faster than others products, as many of them will get used occasionally after release and they revert to using SSO/SCS etc etc.


----------



## AndyP

cqd said:


> I dont know..probably nucleus atm..or EW Hollywood Orch..Or well, CSS/CSB/CSWW whenever its out..
> 
> But, your system wont handle this..my template of it fills 55gb ram..can only use 1 mic at that..takes ages to load..player's very clunky..


I wouldn't see it that way. You can set the default settings to load the SA player to none, or set any patch and load only the articulations you need.

I doubt that Nucleus needs less memory if you load exactly the same articulations in the BBCSO as in Nucleus. I even think you can load more!

With 16 GB you can't build a big template, there is a difference.


----------



## redlester

Frank Costabile said:


> Ok thanks for giving me a little perspective on this...I’ll look into the other options that have been suggested.



I can’t recommend anything to anyone when it comes to spending a lot of hard earned money. What I would recommend is you watch and read every bit of available information and demos, then make a judgement on how it fits with what you personally want, because all opinions you will get - including mine here now - will be based on personal feelings stemming from the nuances of how each individual likes to work.

I will be using it with 16GB (see my post above) for the time being, but I won’t be doing with it many of the things others will be doing. If you plan to upgrade your hardware to a higher spec in future then it may be fine for you to start with while working within the limitations you have. 

But whatever you do I guarantee you will still want whatever comes next as well.


----------



## Zero&One

AndyP said:


> I wouldn't see it that way. You can set the default settings to load the SA player to none, or set any patch and load only the articulations you need.



Exactly, too much emphasis is getting put on loading everything at once. I don't need 80% of the library when I get inspiration, so why would I want to load everything. Having it there routed/available is surely the point of these templates?


----------



## Alex Fraser

James H said:


> Exactly, too much emphasis is getting put on loading everything at once. I don't need 80% of the library when I get inspiration, so why would I want to load everything. Having it there routed/available is surely the point of these templates?


Agreed. With both Logic and Cubase now supporting “load as you go” options and the ability to create custom articulation and mic setups in the BBCSO plugin, with a bit of thought and planning the library should be useable on a variety of rigs.


----------



## gussunkri

Larry Hanshaw said:


> Daniel James just finished up about 7 hours on Twitch going thru the entire library. Should be on YouTube tomorrow broken up into 3 or 4 videos. Definitely worth checking out. It was good to know what to expect when my SSD shows up in a few days


Do people actually spend 7 hours watching someone play around with a sample library?! That’s basically a whole working day!


----------



## synkrotron

gussunkri said:


> working day



What's that?


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Not sure if this has already been highlighted, but Babylonwaves have already added their Cubase Expression maps for exisiting customers, if you prefer 1 instrument , 1 track. 

Downloading now


----------



## gussunkri

About RAM: I have done mock-ups using Spitfire Studio Orchestra on my MacBook Air with 8 gb. In that case I am only loading the articulations I actually use, so the workflow is slower, but surely a similar method would work for BBCSO.


----------



## Zero&One

gussunkri said:


> Do people actually spend 7 hours watching someone play around with a sample library?! That’s basically a whole working day!



1.5 million people watched the Fortnite live "black hole" for a day. I noticed 86,000 viewers on the official page the next day.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

I watched Daniel James' stream, which I thought does a pretty good job of highlighting all the strengths and weaknesses of the library, and definitely recommend everyone on the fence check it out. I'm quite a bit more positive on the library because I only spent £539 on it with the student discount and I also write more classical stuff than I do trailer-y music. It might also just be that my standards aren't that high, but I actually like the sound of the brass for the most part. The dynamics sadly don't go as loud as I would want and the staccatos for the Horns a4 especially are just pitiful, but I love the characteristic of all the brass sounds. Hard to put my finger on why but it just scratches that auditory itch for me.

I'm also not as fussed about having to EQ, say, a tubular bell in the low-mid range, maybe just because I already spend a lot of time processing non-orchestral music as it is, but I sympathise with the argument that those sounds at full premium price should sound great out of the box.

I will also add that I think Mix 2 by Jake Jackson generally speaking sounds superior on almost all the patches. It's louder and a bit more lively, I feel.

I'm hopeful that some of the kinks will be ironed out in upcoming patches. I'm not sure what they could possibly do about dynamics after the fact of releasing this product, but some quality of life improvements like RAM usage and loading times would go a long way. I'm sitting on 40gb of RAM, but after opening up just a few patches and turning off other articulations, I'm already creeping up on 50% RAM usage with no other applications running.


----------



## gtrwll

Has anyone got the RAM working properly? I have only the string section loaded with reduced arts and only Mix1 mic loaded, and my resource monitor shows that 25GB of RAM is being used, while Spitfire Player reports only 5GB used and Cubase shows (for some odd reason) only 1,2GB used. I'm getting a lot of dropouts (and the amount of voices dropping to zero).

I've opened a support ticket, but was wondering if anyone else had solved this.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

Just look at that...

2.01 GB for one patch with one single articulation selected. Is there a way to decrease that usage? That's just ridiculous.


----------



## gtrwll

MarcHedenberg said:


> Just look at that...
> 
> 2.01 GB for one patch with one single articulation selected. Is there a way to decrease that usage? That's just ridiculous.



What's your task manager showing for total memory usage?


----------



## MarcHedenberg

gtrwll said:


> What's your task manager showing for total memory usage?



Now that I look at it....sitting at 5.6GB actually overall for Reaper...but total RAM usage is 52%.


----------



## cqd

I found the windows memory monitor followed PT memory usage exactly..as the BBCSO loaded up it filled the 60gb..


----------



## cqd

Like, really, all the extra mics are f*cking useless if the main one does this..


----------



## synkrotron

Have I missed any REAPER users posting here? I seem to only see Logic, PT or Cubase users commenting on their BBCSO purchase.


----------



## porrasm

Larry Hanshaw said:


> I'm gonna be pissed if I can't run it. The whole thing was marketed as being easy on RAM. Won't know until next week when the ssd shows up. Does anything change if you change the buffer settings?


It does. Going from default to the lowest settings is around a 30-40% decrease in RAM.


----------



## Bluemount Score

synkrotron said:


> Have I missed any REAPER users posting here? I seem to only see Logic, PT or Cubase users commenting on their BBCSO purchase.


FL Studio user here  I'm lonely as well.


----------



## Zedcars

synkrotron said:


> Have I missed any REAPER users posting here? I seem to only see Logic, PT or Cubase users commenting on their BBCSO purchase.


Personally I find Reaper a bit grim.


----------



## thereus

gussunkri said:


> Do people actually spend 7 hours watching someone play around with a sample library?! That’s basically a whole working day!



Could somebody provide a one-paragraph précis, please?


----------



## MarcHedenberg

synkrotron said:


> Have I missed any REAPER users posting here? I seem to only see Logic, PT or Cubase users commenting on their BBCSO purchase.



I use Reaper!


----------



## MarcHedenberg

porrasm said:


> It does. Going from default to the lowest settings is around a 30-40% decrease in RAM.



What buffer size do you reckon I should set it at for optimal balance?


----------



## thereus

I’m going to say this;

I wish Spitfire would stick to using Kontakt and give up with their player. Kontakt is better in every respect. They should concentrate on doing what they do and stop badly re-inventing the wheel. This library would be much more attractive to me if it was in Kontakt.


----------



## Karma

MarcHedenberg said:


> I'm also not as fussed about having to EQ, say, a tubular bell in the low-mid range, maybe just because I already spend a lot of time processing non-orchestral music as it is, but I sympathise with the argument that those sounds at full premium price should sound great out of the box.


This always interests me, I think there's perhaps some mixed opinions on what qualifies as "good out of box" for an Orchestral library. To me, a library that sounds good out of the box means a couple of things:

1) It's recorded in a good space, and the space works great without the need for (but can still benefit well from) any additional processing
2) Things don't need 'warping' to fall into place naturally

I've got to say I don't really understand the whole "having to EQ" as bad thing, because at the end of the day you're working with fairly raw samples in a large hall. Certain instruments will almost always require mid cuts, Horns, Trombones, Clarinets, Celli, etc. Out of the box to me doesn't mean that these things come out of the box scooped, that simply wouldn't make sense, because it's going to vary depending on the piece.

Take any modern live recording and you'll still see that mid cuts are still being made. With samples it's the same, and in a way even more important, because you have multiple individual recordings being stacked on top of each other. You can bet that you're getting some buildup in the process.

If I exported a raw version of my demo there would almost definitely be a bit of mid buildup. The climax of the piece has a lot going on in the mid range. I don't see this as a flaw or limitation of a library, I see it as a pro. You're getting a true representation of that recording in a hall, and are completely free to treat it as you wish.

Good orchestration does help, you'll find things will 'fall' into place more naturally regardless. Ask anyone to try mock-up a John Williams piece and you'll quickly see how things can fall into place, but that still doesn't mean some frequencies won't need taming. Andy's demo is a great example of this with the BBC SO, and is particularly impressive when it comes to an "out of the box" sound as he's also using no reverb. Doesn't really get more out of the box than that.

I don't think I've ever used a sample library that hasn't required some EQ in context.


----------



## Kony

I think Marc was referring to the low thud sound which didn't seem to be a part of the tubular bells unless it was the mic capturing the stand or something. Please check the tubular bells patch with an eq monitor to see what this means. 

Agree with everything you just said about eq-ing btw


----------



## cqd

MarcHedenberg said:


> What buffer size do you reckon I should set it at for optimal balance?



i haven't noticed much difference by changing the buffer..


----------



## synkrotron

Zedcars said:


> Personally I find Reaper a bit grim.



I was more interesting in hearing from a REAPER user that has purchased BBC SO.


----------



## Zedcars

synkrotron said:


> I was more interesting in hearing from a REAPER user that has purchased BBC SO.


Sorry, lame joke.


----------



## synkrotron

MarcHedenberg said:


> I use Reaper!



Nice. I will keep my eye on your progress with BBC SO.

I am especially interested in RAM usage, which seems to be one of the main gripes here.


----------



## synkrotron

Zedcars said:


> Sorry, lame joke.



Ha!

Yeah... I'm a bit slow as well as being a bit dim...

Needless to say, I get it now


----------



## MarcHedenberg

cqd said:


> i haven't noticed much difference by changing the buffer..


Change the preload size. I saw my RAM usage dramatically decrease when I set it to the minimum of 1000. I haven't noticed any difference in loading or playability whatsoever, so take that for what it's worth.


----------



## Karma

Kony said:


> I think Marc was referring to the low thud sound which didn't seem to be a part of the tubular bells unless it was the mic capturing the stand or something. Please check the tubular bells patch with an eq monitor to see what this means.


Ah gotcha - that's my mistake then! Either way still good to make that point I suppose


----------



## cqd

I think the eqing the tubular bells thing comes from DJ's stream..he was giving out about a low bump...I kind of thought there should be a low bump there..I'd kind of associate bass with tubular bells..


----------



## synkrotron

MarcHedenberg said:


> Change the preload size. I saw my RAM usage dramatically decrease when I set it to the minimum of 1000. I haven't noticed any difference in loading or playability whatsoever, so take that for what it's worth.



So is this similar to DFD Preload Buffer in Kontakt?


----------



## Kony

cqd said:


> I think the eqing the tubular bells thing comes from DJ's stream..he was giving out about a low bump...I kind of thought there should be a low bump there..I'd kind of associate bass with tubular bells..


Tubular bells is metal on metal - why would there be a low thud?


----------



## cqd

Well, like a low fundamental frequency..


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

MarcHedenberg said:


> Just look at that...
> 
> 2.01 GB for one patch with one single articulation selected. Is there a way to decrease that usage? That's just ridiculous.


When I open the all in one Oboes a3 and remove all articulations except Legato it shows only 172Mb for me (the task manager RAM however grows by 2.4GB). Is it the only instance of BBCSO you have active?

If I save that single Oboes a3 Legato patch as a preset (so that it appears in the "User" section of BBCSO instrument selection). It only takes 131MB (but still takes 2.4GB). Might have to do what the plugin reserves for itself under different situations. As a software developer myself I can say giving exact memory consumption measures can become very tricky. So no blame here on Spitfire for small deviations.

Kontakt shows the sample pool memory used, not its own memory (which is why this value is predictable and always the exact same number for the same patch).
I am not sure what exactly BBCSO is showing. Is it supposed to be sample pool memory or complete memory usage?

Opening a second BBCSO plugin and loading a patch does not increase task manager RAM by much. So it seems the first BBCSO instance grabs around 2.4GB by default as soon as any patch is loaded.
My task manager RAM used (using Cubase + Windows10) is roughly the value shown in BBCSO+2.4GB it seems.
This also holds true for usage in Studio One. Therefore it is not the DAW taking the 2.4GB.

Indeed sometimes memory usage seems to go haywire. Not sure what the exact situation is, which triggers this.

In comparison loading the Oboes a2 patch of Spitfire SSW in Kontakt shows 60MB in Kontakt (task manager RAM grows by 200MB, the number is so low it is difficult to get an exact number, other processes might run too and change RAM). Roughly Kontakt will take 100MB for itself + samples pool size.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Opening a second BBCSO plugin and loading a patch does not increase task manager RAM by much. So it seems the first BBCSO instance grabs around 2.4GB by default as soon as any patch is loaded.
> My task manager RAM used (using Cubase + Windows10) is roughly the value shown in BBCSO+2.4GB it seems.
> This also holds true for usage in Studio One. Therefore it is not the DAW taking the 2.4GB.


I've noticed this before as well. It's only the first instance that takes very much RAM.


----------



## David Gosnell

Kony said:


> Tubular bells is metal on metal - why would there be a low thud?


If they are using staging to raise the percussion section off the floor, the bells might be standing on what is essentially a large hollow wooden box. A close mic may therefore pick up a low thud as the hammer strikes the bell and the impact is transferred to the 'huge Cajon' it is sitting on - causing a low boom not relating to the bells themselves (especially if the mic stand is on the same bit of staging) - theoretically .


----------



## Kony

David Gosnell said:


> If they are using staging to raise the percussion section off the floor, the bells might be standing on what is essentially a large hollow wooden box. A close mic may therefore pick up a low thud as the hammer strikes the bell and the impact is transferred to the 'huge Cajon' it is sitting on - causing a low boom not relating to the bells themselve - theoretically .


I think that's it - the thud was around 130hz with a frequency gap to 300hz where the bells lower frequency kicks in


----------



## Kony

cqd said:


> Well, like a low fundamental frequency..


I know what you mean, but it didn't sound like a resonant frequency - more like a thud accidentally captured by the mic. Surprised this wasn't picked up at mixing.


----------



## cqd

Tubular Bells


.


----------



## David Gosnell

Kony said:


> I think that's it - the thud was around 130hz with a frequency gap to 300hz where the bells lower frequency kicks in


Yeah, just a theory - and you could ask why they would use staging at all to record samples? - but I guess if you were sampling tubular bells while they were out because the BBC SO was using them for a late romantic symphony session the next day - would you really want to be rearranging all the furniture? I guess the same might also apply to a lesser extent to metal staging too?


----------



## Kony

cqd said:


> Tubular Bells
> 
> 
> .


Thanks for the link - I hadn't realised the fundamental dropped to 220hz - doesn't explain the 130hz thud here though so looks like it may have been a riser. Either way, it's still eq-able


----------



## Zero&One

Anyone got BBC and Logic who could test something with me?


----------



## synkrotron

What are you guys setting Preload Size and Stream Buffer Size to

And why.

I can read what it says in the manual but it only says to "increase for slower hard drives," for both settings. Doesn't say anything about memory.

I've looked at the EW Choir manual too. Same thing there...


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Could someone else please load up the BASS Trombone A2 Legato patch from SSO and see if they do think it sounds off? Like it is missing the Stacatto overlay that most over Legato instruments have. Even the longs attack sound better than the Trombones A2? 

Am i getting "Music Blind" by spending too much time on sounds and templates, or does anyone else hear the problem ? Like the legato sound "Sucks" in too much on the attack


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Edited to clarify its the Bass Bones


----------



## Zedcars

James H said:


> Anyone got BBC and Logic who could test something with me?


Is it a quickie, as I have 3 job applications to do today. So frustrating that I can’t play with the flipping thing I just bought until I’ve finished.


----------



## Zero&One

Zedcars said:


> Is it a quickie, as I have 3 job applications to do today. So frustrating that I can’t play with the flipping thing I just bought until I’ve finished.



Dropped you a PM. No hurry, anytime this month as it's just a weird thing. Cheers dude


----------



## TeamLeader

prodigalson said:


> For anyone thinking of using Christians template, the key switches are a mess. They’re all over the place. e.g Long on one patch is totally different on another. No consistency or seemingly any scheme I can deduce.
> 
> I’m going to have to go through each patch and customize all the key switches for each articulation.



Seriously. that is quite poor. sigh.... Sure wish UACC was available.


----------



## Zero&One

Paul Jelfs said:


> Could someone else please load up the BASS Trombone A2 Legato patch from SSO and see if they do think it sounds off? Like it is missing the Stacatto overlay that most over Legato instruments have. Even the longs attack sound better than the Trombones A2?
> 
> Am i getting "Music Blind" by spending too much time on sounds and templates, or does anyone else hear the problem ? Like the legato sound "Sucks" in too much on the attack



Yep, same here. There's almost nothing on the Stacatto


----------



## IFM

MarcHedenberg said:


> Just look at that...
> 
> 2.01 GB for one patch with one single articulation selected. Is there a way to decrease that usage? That's just ridiculous.



This honestly sounds like the struggles the PLAY had for a long time on the Mac where it would use a ton of 'preload' RAM. Kontakt did not do this and eventually EW figured out how to stop PLAY form doing this. I'm sure they will get it all sorted.


----------



## redlester

thereus said:


> Could somebody provide a one-paragraph précis, please?



“Ta-day! F*ckin’ keep yer tits on, f*ckin’ load time, hard drive, f*ckin’ release times, SSD, lovely, shite” 😊

I’ve only listened to the strings (over 2 hours) so far. Am making a long journey today will listen to more later.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Which Piano are you guys choosing to fill in the missing gaps ? Trying VSL Synchron one that came with special edition package?


----------



## redlester

Paul Jelfs said:


> Which Piano are you guys choosing to fill in the missing gaps ? Trying VSL Synchron one that came with special edition package?



That reminds me, I have a ton of Pianobook downloading I want to do!


----------



## gtrwll

IFM said:


> This honestly sounds like the struggles the PLAY had for a long time on the Mac where it would use a ton of 'preload' RAM. Kontakt did not do this and eventually EW figured out how to stop PLAY form doing this. I'm sure they will get it all sorted.



IMO they should make that sample purge function a top priority. There's something happening in the background that's really f***ing up the RAM usage.


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

Paul Jelfs said:


> Which Piano are you guys choosing to fill in the missing gaps ? Trying VSL Synchron one that came with special edition package?


I'm planning on using Garritan CFX. I think I can get it to sit right with some Eventide 2016 Stereo Room on an insert. The whole bbcso sounds like it will benefit from an overall reverb. I plan on using Spaces II for that. Will know better in about a week.


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

I just finished working on this! I've only used the BBCSO plugin a few equalisers and a touch of verb at the end


----------



## Jonas Hallstrom

I just downloaded bbcso and all the 5 segments need repairs. When i hit repair, it seems to fix it, downloading etc. but then when I look at the menu in the spitfire download-app again it still says repair on all 5 (brass, player, percussion, strings, ww) Anyone got a similar problem? btw it says error #3 when I try to load the spitfire player in cubase 10 (I'm on win 10)


----------



## synkrotron

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I just finished working on this!



Very nice indeed  

How are you enjoying the Spitfire Audio British Broadcasting Corporation Symphony Orchestra library then? Any problems or concerns?


----------



## meradium

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I just finished working on this! I've only used the BBCSO plugin a few equalisers and a touch of verb at the end




This sounds pretty cool! Though somehow I have the feeling something is off here and there but only in terms of volumes of the instruments. And sometimes the releases of notes sound a bit aprupt. Did you heavily work the expression slider by any chance?

What I find fascinating in this demo is the sense of listening to a whole orchestra as a single unit. It is difficult to describe. Quite amazing.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I just finished working on this! I've only used the BBCSO plugin a few equalisers and a touch of verb at the end



Beautiful! Very nice demo.
For a final version, I would probably EQ even more and cut more low mids. The flute partly seemed a little weird to me, like it had no legato. Otherwise, really cool!
What are your early workflow experiences with BBCSO?


----------



## Zedcars

synkrotron said:


> ...Spitfire Audio British Broadcasting Corporation Symphony Orchestra library...


I feel like this could be shortened a bit. Anyone got any suggestions?


----------



## Bluemount Score

synkrotron said:


> What are you guys setting Preload Size and Stream Buffer Size to
> 
> And why.
> 
> I can read what it says in the manual but it only says to "increase for slower hard drives," for both settings. Doesn't say anything about memory.
> 
> I've looked at the EW Choir manual too. Same thing there...


I second this question. For now, I've set both to 10.000, lower than default as my processor (i7 8700k) is strong. Hope that makes sense.
It lowers the RAM indeed by a little amount, which is what I was aiming for. I still had no time to try BBCSO in depth. But I'll probably try to go as low as possible on both settings as my 16GB RAM will surely get me into trouble.


----------



## AndyP

Larry Hanshaw said:


> I'm planning on using Garritan CFX. I think I can get it to sit right with some Eventide 2016 Stereo Room on an insert. The whole bbcso sounds like it will benefit from an overall reverb. I plan on using Spaces II for that. Will know better in about a week.


Spaces II in combination sounds very good. I use it exactly like that.


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I just finished working on this! I've only used the BBCSO plugin a few equalisers and a touch of verb at the end



Outstanding with a very cohesive and open sound. Great work Mattia!


----------



## synkrotron

Zedcars said:


> I feel like this could be shortened a bit.



Well, from now on I will be using its full title... No more acronyms


----------



## mcalis

I don't own this product, so I don't really have a horse in this race but, does anyone else think the GUI is kind of terrible? I know ustwo designed it which I think _perfectly_ explains why the GUI is in the state it's in. It's very designer-y, but it really doesn't seem practical at all.

Just a few things I noticed from various videos:


Heaps of wasted space on both the top and bottom half of the interface, mostly on the top half.
Paginated articulation selection. Why? With a little resizing and reshuffling you could get all the articulations in a single view, no extra clicks needed.
"Always visible" articulation panel on the bottom right hand side. Does this info really always need to be in view? Is knowing how many RRs an art. has so important that it needs to be always directly visible? I'd say having every articulation in a single view is more important.
Paginated microphone selection. Whyyyy? 1/3rd of the right hand view is taken up by a control that only applies to close/spot mics? What? Another 1/3rd is taken up by two toggles? Wouldn't users rather have a complete view of _all_ mics so you don't have to go through extra clicks to get to the one mic you care about?
Gigantic round knob on the top half that controls values like "tightness" and "reverb" which could just as easily fit into a horizontal sliders with text labels to the side (like the old kontakt spitfire UIs). Currently, the user can't see the value of all these different settings at once but has to go through each of them to see their value on the ring (also, there's no visible numerical indicator when a value is set)
Several non obvious hidden menus.
Meaningless symbols for Expression, Modulation and whatever that doodle in the center of the Big Ass Knob is. Why not just label with "Expr." and "Mod."?

From a UX perspective, the paginated articulation and mic selection are really quite egregious. I'm not sure how much ustwo was paid to make this, but... I imagine it's rather a lot and imo these are pretty basic mistakes.

Or am I completely off the mark here?


----------



## Noeticus

Frank Costabile said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. Thing is, as good as those libraries probably are, wouldn’t it be preferable to go straight for the ‘big time’ libs if I’m just going to end up upgrading anyway further down the line?
> 
> And can anyone else vouch for 16GB of RAM not being enough to run the bbc symphony? I checked their site and the minimum requirement is listed as 8. My laptop has capacity for 32GB...



Perhaps just buy more RAM.


----------



## synkrotron

mcalis said:


> does anyone else think the GUI is kind of terrible?



Not me.


----------



## porrasm

Bluemount Score said:


> FL Studio user here  I'm lonely as well.


FL user as well here. Wanna trade templates? I'd like to see what another template looks like. Mine isn't done yet though.


----------



## Bluemount Score

mcalis said:


> I don't own this product, so I don't really have a horse in this race but, does anyone else think the GUI is kind of terrible? I know ustwo designed it which I think _perfectly_ explains why the GUI is in the state it's in. It's very designer-y, but it really doesn't seem practical at all.
> 
> Just a few things I noticed from various videos:
> 
> 
> Heaps of wasted space on both the top and bottom half of the interface, mostly on the top half.
> Paginated articulation selection. Why? With a little resizing and reshuffling you could get all the articulations in a single view, no extra clicks needed.
> "Always visible" articulation panel on the bottom right hand side. Does this info really always need to be in view? Is knowing how many RRs an art. has so important that it needs to be always directly visible? I'd say having every articulation in a single view is more important.
> Paginated microphone selection. Whyyyy? 1/3rd of the right hand view is taken up by a control that only applies to close/spot mics? What? Another 1/3rd is taken up by two toggles? Wouldn't users rather have a complete view of _all_ mics so you don't have to go through extra clicks to get to the one mic you care about?
> Gigantic round knob on the top half that controls values like "tightness" and "reverb" which could just as easily fit into a horizontal sliders with text labels to the side (like the old kontakt spitfire UIs). Currently, the user can't see the value of all these different settings at once but has to go through each of them to see their value on the ring (also, there's no visible numerical indicator when a value is set)
> Several non obvious hidden menus.
> Meaningless symbols for Expression, Modulation and whatever that doodle in the center of the Big Ass Knob is. Why not just label with "Expr." and "Mod."?
> From a UX perspective, the paginated articulation and mic selection are really quite egregious. I'm not sure how much ustwo was paid to make this, but... I imagine it's rather a lot and imo these are pretty basic mistakes.
> 
> Or am I completely off the mark here?


I definitely see where you are going with that, I had some of these thoughts myself. I'm no GUI designer and the only relevant comparison I have is Kontakt.
The paginated stuff - I somehow agree, especially looking at the fact that there would have been much more space to take better use of than being just blank.
The gigantic round knob - agreed. I would have prefered one knob / slider for each CC, not a single big one which results in a lot of switching.
I like the design by itself, even though it's not _the_ most practical one in terms of workflow.
What I like is in fact that overall, everything you need is there, but nothing else or "unnessecary". Kontakt in my eyes always had way too many functions for what most people use it for and for beginners you could easily get lost when searching for a specific function. The Spitfire Player (being just a sample _player_) overall is easy to understand and you'll find what you are searching even as a beginner, so I kinda disagree with point 6. I didn't used it before BBCSO (and a little LABS) and felt right at home very soon. The GUI is scaleable, which is good of course. So overall, it isn't perfect, but I'm fine with it. What I'm in fact missing in comparison to Kontakt (nothing to do with the GUI itself) is a purge sample function and multi racks.


----------



## porrasm

mcalis said:


> I don't own this product, so I don't really have a horse in this race but, does anyone else think the GUI is kind of terrible? I know ustwo designed it which I think _perfectly_ explains why the GUI is in the state it's in. It's very designer-y, but it really doesn't seem practical at all.
> 
> Just a few things I noticed from various videos:
> 
> 
> Heaps of wasted space on both the top and bottom half of the interface, mostly on the top half.
> Paginated articulation selection. Why? With a little resizing and reshuffling you could get all the articulations in a single view, no extra clicks needed.
> "Always visible" articulation panel on the bottom right hand side. Does this info really always need to be in view? Is knowing how many RRs an art. has so important that it needs to be always directly visible? I'd say having every articulation in a single view is more important.
> Paginated microphone selection. Whyyyy? 1/3rd of the right hand view is taken up by a control that only applies to close/spot mics? What? Another 1/3rd is taken up by two toggles? Wouldn't users rather have a complete view of _all_ mics so you don't have to go through extra clicks to get to the one mic you care about?
> Gigantic round knob on the top half that controls values like "tightness" and "reverb" which could just as easily fit into a horizontal sliders with text labels to the side (like the old kontakt spitfire UIs). Currently, the user can't see the value of all these different settings at once but has to go through each of them to see their value on the ring (also, there's no visible numerical indicator when a value is set)
> Several non obvious hidden menus.
> Meaningless symbols for Expression, Modulation and whatever that doodle in the center of the Big Ass Knob is. Why not just label with "Expr." and "Mod."?
> From a UX perspective, the paginated articulation and mic selection are really quite egregious. I'm not sure how much ustwo was paid to make this, but... I imagine it's rather a lot and imo these are pretty basic mistakes.
> 
> Or am I completely off the mark here?


It's pretty but so much space is wasted. Id like to have a few of them open at a time but with a 1080p I can fit max 2 of them in the screen. You can scale it down but the font gets tiny. I wish they kept to a similar GUI than their Kontakt libraries. They were very compact and provided the same info as this new GUI while still looking very good.


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

@Bluemount Score My first impressions are very positive. Differently from many people I had no problem whatsoever working with the Spitfire plugin. I would say on my machine it actually works a bit better than Kontakt. I takes a bit to load the samples but ones it's done no annoying CPU spikes or system overloads. For sure the GUI could be improved but tbh I don't really care since I don't mess with the parameters that much, I'm more like a plug and play kind of guy. In terms of sound, well it takes a bit of work but it's very rewarding in the end. Strings and woods are absolutely fantastic. I wasn't exactly writing for the stenghts of the lib but it actually turned out ok. My wish is they did extended legatos for all instruments

@meradium I just wanted to try this so haven't really built a template for this yet. I was using Christian's for now even though is not really balanced. Everything was on 0 and it'll take some intra/inter family balance to make it behave like a real orchestra. I was mostly trying to balance through dynamics.


----------



## Bluemount Score

porrasm said:


> FL user as well here. Wanna trade templates? I'd like to see what another template looks like. Mine isn't done yet though.


Cool to hear! I yet haven't even started to create my template, but when I find time and it's done, yes sure, why not?  Maybe send me a PM or so so I don't forget.


----------



## redlester

mcalis said:


> I don't own this product, so I don't really have a horse in this race but, does anyone else think the GUI is kind of terrible? I know ustwo designed it which I think _perfectly_ explains why the GUI is in the state it's in. It's very designer-y, but it really doesn't seem practical at all.
> 
> Just a few things I noticed from various videos:
> 
> 
> Heaps of wasted space on both the top and bottom half of the interface, mostly on the top half.
> Paginated articulation selection. Why? With a little resizing and reshuffling you could get all the articulations in a single view, no extra clicks needed.
> "Always visible" articulation panel on the bottom right hand side. Does this info really always need to be in view? Is knowing how many RRs an art. has so important that it needs to be always directly visible? I'd say having every articulation in a single view is more important.
> Paginated microphone selection. Whyyyy? 1/3rd of the right hand view is taken up by a control that only applies to close/spot mics? What? Another 1/3rd is taken up by two toggles? Wouldn't users rather have a complete view of _all_ mics so you don't have to go through extra clicks to get to the one mic you care about?
> Gigantic round knob on the top half that controls values like "tightness" and "reverb" which could just as easily fit into a horizontal sliders with text labels to the side (like the old kontakt spitfire UIs). Currently, the user can't see the value of all these different settings at once but has to go through each of them to see their value on the ring (also, there's no visible numerical indicator when a value is set)
> Several non obvious hidden menus.
> Meaningless symbols for Expression, Modulation and whatever that doodle in the center of the Big Ass Knob is. Why not just label with "Expr." and "Mod."?
> 
> From a UX perspective, the paginated articulation and mic selection are really quite egregious. I'm not sure how much ustwo was paid to make this, but... I imagine it's rather a lot and imo these are pretty basic mistakes.
> 
> Or am I completely off the mark here?



You are absolutely bang on the mark in terms of your own experience of it, because those are clearly your feelings.

But some will feel differently and that’s just as valid. Personally I didn’t like their GUI at all when I first used it (when the new Labs started). But am finding the more I use it the more I like it and the less all the things you mention bother me. 

Regarding the articulation buttons I’ve grown to prefer these to Kontakt because they are bigger and actually labelled with what they are. The way I work changing articulations and/or mic’s will be a slow, considered part of the process (i.e. I’m painfully slow with all this!) so Very quick access speed is not really an issue for me. I can definitely see why it would be for others though, and I think they could do with at least taking these points on board for future.


----------



## Noeticus

mcalis said:


> I don't own this product, so I don't really have a horse in this race but, does anyone else think the GUI is kind of terrible? I know ustwo designed it which I think _perfectly_ explains why the GUI is in the state it's in. It's very designer-y, but it really doesn't seem practical at all.
> 
> Just a few things I noticed from various videos:
> 
> 
> Heaps of wasted space on both the top and bottom half of the interface, mostly on the top half.
> Paginated articulation selection. Why? With a little resizing and reshuffling you could get all the articulations in a single view, no extra clicks needed.
> "Always visible" articulation panel on the bottom right hand side. Does this info really always need to be in view? Is knowing how many RRs an art. has so important that it needs to be always directly visible? I'd say having every articulation in a single view is more important.
> Paginated microphone selection. Whyyyy? 1/3rd of the right hand view is taken up by a control that only applies to close/spot mics? What? Another 1/3rd is taken up by two toggles? Wouldn't users rather have a complete view of _all_ mics so you don't have to go through extra clicks to get to the one mic you care about?
> Gigantic round knob on the top half that controls values like "tightness" and "reverb" which could just as easily fit into a horizontal sliders with text labels to the side (like the old kontakt spitfire UIs). Currently, the user can't see the value of all these different settings at once but has to go through each of them to see their value on the ring (also, there's no visible numerical indicator when a value is set)
> Several non obvious hidden menus.
> Meaningless symbols for Expression, Modulation and whatever that doodle in the center of the Big Ass Knob is. Why not just label with "Expr." and "Mod."?
> From a UX perspective, the paginated articulation and mic selection are really quite egregious. I'm not sure how much ustwo was paid to make this, but... I imagine it's rather a lot and imo these are pretty basic mistakes.
> 
> Or am I completely off the mark here?



I think they want the GUI to attrack customers by looking high-end, but the layout and labeling are a bit poor. I would design a very usable and clear GUI first, and then add the esthetics last.

The hieroglyphics would be gone.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Mattia Chiappa said:


> My wish is they did extended legatos for all instruments


Yeah right? Why does the Oboe have extended legato, but the clarinet doesn't?
Thanks for your feedback, sounds good so far!


----------



## mcalis

Bluemount Score said:


> I definitely see where you are going with that, I had some of these thoughts myself. I'm no GUI designer myself and the only relevant comparison I have is Kontakt.
> The paginated stuff - I somehow agree, especially looking at the fact that there would have been much more space to take better use of than being just blank.
> The gigantic round knob - agreed. I would have prefered one knob / slider for each CC, not a single big one which results in a lot of switching.
> I like the design by itself, even though it's not _the_ most practical one in terms of workflow.
> What I like is in fact that overall, everything you need to control is there, but nothing else or "unnessecary". Kontakt in my eyes always had way too many functions for what most people use it for and for beginners you could easily get lost when searching for a specific function. The Spitfire Player overall is easy to understand and you'll find what you are searching even as a beginner, so I kinda disagree with point 6. I didn't used it before BBCSO (and a little LABS) and felt right at home very soon. So overall, it isn't perfect, but I'm fine with it. What I'm in fact missing in comaprison to Kontakt (nothing to do with the GUI itself) is a purge sample function.


That's fair. It is certainly cleaner looking, I'll give it that. Still, there are plenty of odd design decisions which boil down to the fact that an external company that presumably knows nothing about the needs of VI composers was hired to make this interface.

Like with the "variation" ring slider for multitongue articulations, there is no indication at all to tell you what value corresponds to a double tongue, which value to a triple tongue, and which to a quadruple tonguing. With Kontakt SA was forced to work within the constraints NI provided, but with their own player, there's no good reason to not have this indicated. 

Or what about the instrument selection dropdown that only goes down the half the plugin's height? Thereby imposing another scrollbar on the user when they could've just made the dropdown go down full height.

They might seem like nitpicky things, but if you spend any amount of time within the interface at all, I'd wager these annoyances would start to add up.


----------



## Patrick.K

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I just finished working on this! I've only used the BBCSO plugin a few equalisers and a touch of verb at the end



Whaouh....! Very nice .


----------



## synkrotron

Mattia Chiappa said:


> My first impressions are very positive. Differently from many people I had no problem whatsoever working with the Spitfire plugin.



Erm... Thanks.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

mcalis said:


> Currently, the user can't see the value of all these different settings at once but has to go through each of them to see their value on the ring (also, there's no visible numerical indicator when a value is set)



You only see the numerical values while changing a slider/knob.
There is a view for all parameters however:





What is kind of annoying: you have to click the knob each time to open the side menu, in order to even see what controls exist. Because it differs from articulation to articulation. And this side menu always closes as soon as you select another articulation.

I understand there are 2 GUI wishes:
a) Have a shiny looking interface to attract customers and have a simplified workflow.
b) Have an advanced GUI with lots of parameters shown for quick accessibility.

I'd wish there was just a button letting me switch between some kind of simple/advanced mode.
Thus it'd be possible to use and fill the "wasted" space with something more useful and having a shiny reduced interface as well.

Edit: Corrected typo


----------



## redlester

Noeticus said:


> I think they want the GUI to attrack customers by looking high-end, but the layout and labeling are a bit poor. I would design a very usable and clear GUI first, and then add the esthetics last.
> 
> The hieroglyphics would be gone.



For me too, but once you learn them it becomes less of a problem. I hate the way the articulations in their Kontakt instruments are nothing but heiroglyphics without even hover-over articulation names.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Patrick9152 said:


> I think exactly the same thing !.


I (again) didn't wrote the quoted post... but cool that you agree with my thoughts, I guess...


----------



## Bluemount Score

mcalis said:


> Like with the "variation" ring slider for multitongue articulations, there is no indication at all to tell you what value corresponds to a double tongue, which value to a triple tongue, and which to a quadruple tonguing. With Kontakt SA was forced to work within the constraints NI provided, but with their own player, there's no good reason to not have this indicated.
> 
> Or what about the instrument selection dropdown that only goes down the half the plugin's height? Thereby imposing another scrollbar on the user when they could've just made the dropdown go down full height.


Two valid points, now as you mention them. Nothing dramatic, however I agree that it would have been pretty easy to find something more practical and user friendly.


----------



## synkrotron

Bluemount Score said:


> I (again) didn't wrote the quoted post... but cool that you agree with my thoughts, I guess...



Yeah, but what is @Patrick9152 doing to misquote peeps?

Very weird that...


----------



## Patrick.K

Manuel Stumpf said:


> I (again) didn't wrote the quoted post... but cool that you agree with my thoughts, I guess...


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I just finished working on this! I've only used the BBCSO plugin a few equalisers and a touch of verb at the end




Lovely! Which microphons did you use?


----------



## synkrotron

Patrick9152 said:


>



?


----------



## Zedcars

synkrotron said:


> ?


??


----------



## synkrotron

Zedcars said:


> ??



???


----------



## Bluemount Score

synkrotron said:


> ???


No I'm not writing four question marks, I won't. No.


----------



## Zedcars

synkrotron said:


> ???


Must...resist...the...tempt...ation...to...carry...this...on....


----------



## Patrick.K

synkrotron said:


> Yeah, but what is @Patrick9152 doing to misquote peeps?
> 
> Very weird that...


It's Sunday and I'm tired...Sorry.


----------



## cqd

?????


----------



## synkrotron

Bluemount Score said:


> No I'm not writing four question marks, I won't. No.



A sensible young man


----------



## Saxer

thereus said:


> I’m going to say this;
> 
> I wish Spitfire would stick to using Kontakt and give up with their player. Kontakt is better in every respect. They should concentrate on doing what they do and stop badly re-inventing the wheel. This library would be much more attractive to me if it was in Kontakt.


In Logic the SCS and SSS performance legatos use about 2/3 more CPU than the BBCSO legatos which have more or less the same features. I‘m really happy with the efficiency of the Spitfire player and glad that it isn‘t a Kontakt library.


----------



## Gingerbread

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I just finished working on this! I've only used the BBCSO plugin a few equalisers and a touch of verb at the end



Fantastic work! I know it's 99% because of your obvious composition and orchestration skills, but I'm also curious on the BBCSO side....did you just use the JJ mix mics, or did you use various different mics to achieve this highly cohesive-sounding result?


----------



## Fleer

synkrotron said:


> A sensible young man


----------



## synthetic

I went through all of the instruments I loaded into my template (almost all of them) and nearly every one had the outriggers and Brass Spill mics turned on. (I didn't turn them on, they must have been there by default.) So if you're having performance issues, switch those off and you'll cut your RAM and CPU usage by ~2/3.


----------



## synthetic

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I just finished working on this!



I have the theme stuck in my head, very pretty.


----------



## Patrick.K

So the verdict after 3 days of
criticism, worries, for, against, disappointments and so on...
Is BBCSO good to buy or not? .I have to decide, or wait for the bugs to be solved.
The only product I bought at Spitfire is Jody Burgess Percussions.
Currently I still have a Mac I5 32 GB of ram.What do you think ?.


----------



## cqd

The Burgess Percussion is a gem..That, and CSS/CSB WW would probably be my ideal set up at the minute..


----------



## jbuhler

mcalis said:


> I don't own this product, so I don't really have a horse in this race but, does anyone else think the GUI is kind of terrible? I know ustwo designed it which I think _perfectly_ explains why the GUI is in the state it's in. It's very designer-y, but it really doesn't seem practical at all.
> 
> Just a few things I noticed from various videos:
> 
> 
> Heaps of wasted space on both the top and bottom half of the interface, mostly on the top half.
> Paginated articulation selection. Why? With a little resizing and reshuffling you could get all the articulations in a single view, no extra clicks needed.
> "Always visible" articulation panel on the bottom right hand side. Does this info really always need to be in view? Is knowing how many RRs an art. has so important that it needs to be always directly visible? I'd say having every articulation in a single view is more important.
> Paginated microphone selection. Whyyyy? 1/3rd of the right hand view is taken up by a control that only applies to close/spot mics? What? Another 1/3rd is taken up by two toggles? Wouldn't users rather have a complete view of _all_ mics so you don't have to go through extra clicks to get to the one mic you care about?
> Gigantic round knob on the top half that controls values like "tightness" and "reverb" which could just as easily fit into a horizontal sliders with text labels to the side (like the old kontakt spitfire UIs). Currently, the user can't see the value of all these different settings at once but has to go through each of them to see their value on the ring (also, there's no visible numerical indicator when a value is set)
> Several non obvious hidden menus.
> Meaningless symbols for Expression, Modulation and whatever that doodle in the center of the Big Ass Knob is. Why not just label with "Expr." and "Mod."?
> From a UX perspective, the paginated articulation and mic selection are really quite egregious. I'm not sure how much ustwo was paid to make this, but... I imagine it's rather a lot and imo these are pretty basic mistakes.
> 
> Or am I completely off the mark here?


I find the GUI uncluttered rather than wasting space, and I like its simplicity at that level. That said, the big knob also doesn't work for me. It's the most prominent thing on the GUI and too often it controls nothing that needs that kind of space. Like you, I also don't like the fact that the articulations aren't all on one page when they have the space, and same for the mics. Yes, they bury important functions under a series of menus that makes them hard to find. I really dislike the menu you use to load patches—though that's more a navigation thing than a GUI element.


----------



## Patrick.K

cqd said:


> The Burgess Percussion is a gem..That, and CSS/CSB WW would probably be my ideal set up at the minute..


I've already thought of the same thing, maybe with OT woodwinds ?


----------



## synkrotron

Patrick9152 said:


> So the verdict after 3 days



Still too early in my opinion... Much to be thrashed through and Spitfire Audio could do with at least showing signs that they are listening and reacting to what is being said here, from both the positive and negative perspectives.


----------



## Fleer

They will, I'm sure they will. I'm also sure they're first scanning some of the posts in this thread before they do so


----------



## synkrotron

Fleer said:


> They will, I'm sure they will. I'm also sure they're first scanning some of the posts in this thread before they do so



Yes, I, like you, am sure SA are a watching and reading... Just gone a bit quiet 

I wonder if they have "weekends" haha! Probably not... But they sure should


----------



## Patrick.K

synkrotron said:


> Still too early in my opinion... Much to be thrashed through and Spitfire Audio could do with at least showing signs that they are listening and reacting to what is being said here, from both the positive and negative perspectives.


I noticed that in recent days, no official reaction of Spitfire Audio,
Paul Thomson, is less exited !...


----------



## cqd

Patrick9152 said:


> I've already thought of the same thing, maybe with OT woodwinds ?



CSS Woods will be out in a couple of months..


----------



## Noeticus

Patrick9152 said:


> So the verdict after 3 days of
> criticism, worries, for, against, disappointments and so on...
> Is BBCSO good to buy or not? .I have to decide, or wait for the bugs to be solved.
> The only product I bought at Spitfire is Jody Burgess Percussions.
> Currently I still have a Mac I5 32 GB of ram.What do you think ?.



The verdict is, yes, the Spitfire BBCSO is good enough to buy, but not great enough to inhibit the desire to buy everyone else's VST libraries.

I want them all. And when I say all, I mean just some of them.


----------



## NoamL

thereus said:


> Could somebody provide a one-paragraph précis, please?



Of @Daniel James 's stream? I'll do my best

Bottom line: "It sounds good for what it is, but it doesn't do anything better than what I already have." His view is it's better to buy a cheap all-in-1 library and then augment it with flagship orchestral sections where you feel the all-in-1 has gaps and doesn't achieve what you want. He doesn't like the $1k price and thought BBCSO should be priced more like an Albion (I completely disagree with his view on that! But I'm just passing on his opinion).
He likes many of the sounds, especially the string longs and the percussion. Felt some of the woodwinds were good and others only okay. Didn't like much of the brass at all. Some of the string shorts seemed to have timing problems.
Doesn't like that the Spitfire Player currently has missing features compared to Kontakt like background loading, onboard effects, etc. Several times he compared the SF Player to early versions of EW PLAY. Also repeated his criticism of Spitfire Player UI - unintuitive, lots of empty space, paginated mics, etc.
Likes the JJ Mix sound but would preferred more RR & more layers rather than 20 mics.


----------



## Noeticus

We should all chime in here and say that we have lots of love for Christian Henson and Paul Thomson.

Yes, we really love you guys!!! 

Please take our criticism as just an attempt to help you improve your lovely products.


----------



## Patrick.K

cqd said:


> CSS Woods will be out in a couple of months..


Ok...We will have to wait again


----------



## Noeticus

I'm waiting for Audiobro's LASS 3.0 which might end up being called... "Modern Scoring Strings"


----------



## cqd

Patrick9152 said:


> Ok...We will have to wait again



Probably wont be the developer led hype to deal with though..


----------



## I like music

Noeticus said:


> I'm waiting for Audiobro's LASS 3.0 which might end up being called... "Modern Scoring Strings"



Modern Scoring Cinematic Studio Woodwinds Revive ... Synchornised ... ?


----------



## synkrotron

I'm waiting for the next LABS freebie...


----------



## Patrick.K

Noeticus said:


> We should all chime in here and say that we have lots of love for Christian Henson and Paul Thomson.
> 
> Yes, we really love you guys!!!
> 
> Please take our criticism as just an attempt to help you improve your lovely products.


The unfortunate, they did not go home this weekend and worked night and day with developers, drinking tons of tea, to find solutions !


----------



## Patrick.K

cqd said:


> Probably wont be the developer led hype to deal with though..


----------



## dzilizzi

gussunkri said:


> Do people actually spend 7 hours watching someone play around with a sample library?! That’s basically a whole working day!


I will listen on Monday while at work. Just let it play in the background. Gives me a good idea if anything really stands out as bad or good. Of course, it will get stopped a lot, as work stuff happens. 

Well, maybe I will listen Monday and Tuesday. And maybe Wednesday... I should finish by then.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

Do you reckon it would be a good idea to blend Cinematic Studio Brass with the BBC library to get more bite out of the horns?


----------



## brenneisen

NoamL said:


> Likes the JJ Mix sound but would preferred more RR & more layers rather than 20 mics.



not the same math $, though


----------



## meradium

Quick question regarding the legato strings: These patched only have normal legato and portamento, right? So no third option like in the other libs where you also have a bow change on the highest velocity. I find myself using this quite a lot in the SSO series....


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

I have to agree with the complaints about the GUI. When using Spitfire Plugin libraries, so much screen space is wasted on whitespace and a giant unlabeled knob that just maps to the real controls that are all crammed in the lower half of the UI.

If there's no way to make the useful controls fill the entire window (to reduce the amount of page-swapping you need to do), I'd like to at least be able to fold away the mostly-decorative top half of the window instead of just the bottom half where the actual controls are.

The patch-selection dropdown is quite small, too, as said. It would be a great workflow improvement if the patches could be also provided as standard .fxb VST presets so that we could bypass the built-in browser and load/browse them directly from our DAW.

But I don't anticipate any of this changing at this point. All of the Spitfire Plugin libraries have this GUI, they seem to be satisfied with it, and mercifully at least most of their Kontakt products are still on the market (for now).


----------



## Patrick.K

I still think that SA comes out too many products too quickly, with too many ads effects, spends too much time making videos (that's good), but they should spend more time developing their products , because I think that this is too much noise for a library that is not finished. The law of the market maybe, they must go quickly to occupy the field in front of the competition, money, money ...but there is risks ... a bit like Boeing with his 737 Max ... still a software problem 
They lost a little credibility , they are too hungry for money...But maybe i 'm Wrong ?.
But I still trust them, they are passionate.


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

Gingerbread said:


> Fantastic work! I know it's 99% because of your obvious composition and orchestration skills, but I'm also curious on the BBCSO side....did you just use the JJ mix mics, or did you use various different mics to achieve this highly cohesive-sounding result?


Thank you! I actually went a bit wild with the mics because I was excited about trying them but for strings is pretty much only Jake's 1st mix and leader's mics. For the the rest is a combination of things. Woods mids, tree and ambient about half through way on each and touch of sides. For brass is similar but I used more of the tree and ambient for extra depth. Percussions 100% gallery with a bit of tree, out and sides. For harp and celeste it's tree, stereo and out. Additionally I used on all instruments full spills dialled 100%. Probably uselessly complicated, I doubt I'll go far down this road ever again


----------



## synkrotron

Patrick9152 said:


> a bit like Boeing with his 737 Max



trying to work this one out...


----------



## synthetic

Track using only BBC. Sorry for the dead air, RX isn't seeing my iLok today. I was trying for an Old Hollywood Egyptian Epic.


----------



## synthetic

meradium said:


> Quick question regarding the legato strings: These patched only have normal legato and portamento, right? So no third option like in the other libs where you also have a bow change on the highest velocity. I find myself using this quite a lot in the SSO series....



You can articulate a bow change on a repeated note, IMO. There is a staccato sample (?) when you hit the key harder. The legato patch is more like a performance patch, there is a lot of playability there.


----------



## Hadrondrift

Sarah Mancuso said:


> so much screen space is wasted on whitespace


For a reason unknown to me, this is the current doctrine of a good GUI. "Let it breathe, give it space." You can see it everywhere, Google, Microsoft, web sites and applications. So that is what you get if you let professional designers design your GUI nowadays. Inversion of the principle "form follows function". First comes that eye-catching huge button, and then let's see what we can do with it function-wise.


----------



## Patrick.K

synkrotron said:


> trying to work this one out..


 and the risks are not the same, 
The only danger for us is an HDD crash


----------



## marmalade haze

Hadrondrift said:


> For a reason unknown to me, this is the current doctrine of a good GUI. "Let it breathe, give it space." You can see it everywhere, Google, Microsoft, web sites and applications. So that is what you get if you let your GUI design by professional designers nowadays. Inversion of the principle "form follows function". First comes that eye-catching huge button, and then let's see what we can do with it function-wise.



I agree. It's a common design asthetic. Good God, the Kontakt interface is headache inducing. We've just become accustomed to it. I'm sure it will evolve over time. Also, the tone on this form can be rather acerbic at times and it's no wonder Paul and Christian left for awhile. I'm sure they are taking copious notes, while watching us battling in the trenches playing with their shiny new toy. ; )


----------



## Patrick.K

synthetic said:


> Track using only BBC. Sorry for the dead air, RX isn't seeing my iLok today. I was trying for an Old Hollywood Egyptian Epic.


Very pleasant atmosphere, pleasant to listen to, but can you still work with the interpretation of the strings especially legatos ... But I'm not competent enough


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Hadrondrift said:


> For a reason unknown to me, this is the current doctrine of a good GUI. "Let it breathe, give it space." You can see it everywhere, Google, Microsoft, web sites and applications. So that is what you get if you let your GUI design by professional designers nowadays. Inversion of the principle "form follows function". First comes that eye-catching huge button, and then let's see what we can do with it function-wise.


I just want to be able to see my sequencer while I'm using the plugin... I upgraded to a 1440p display recently and I still have to scale the Spitfire windows way down to make room for anything. And of course there's no option to scale down the giant unlabeled controls and empty space without equally scaling down the already-rather-small controls in the bottom half. If they need to use so much screen space I'd like to at least be able to use that space to see more of the controls.

Their Kontakt UIs aren't perfect either, it's true (I'd prefer to have less paging around in some of those, too) but I find them much better than this -- not only do they stay out of the way instead of dominating my entire screen, but they also let me access more of their controls at once. This just feels like the worst of both worlds: it uses up the entire screen and doesn't do anything useful with all that space.


----------



## thereus

NoamL said:


> Of @Daniel James 's stream? I'll do my best
> 
> Bottom line: "It sounds good for what it is, but it doesn't do anything better than what I already have." His view is it's better to buy a cheap all-in-1 library and then augment it with flagship orchestral sections where you feel the all-in-1 has gaps and doesn't achieve what you want. He doesn't like the $1k price and thought BBCSO should be priced more like an Albion (I completely disagree with his view on that! But I'm just passing on his opinion).
> He likes many of the sounds, especially the string longs and the percussion. Felt some of the woodwinds were good and others only okay. Didn't like much of the brass at all. Some of the string shorts seemed to have timing problems.
> Doesn't like that the Spitfire Player currently has missing features compared to Kontakt like background loading, onboard effects, etc. Several times he compared the SF Player to early versions of EW PLAY. Also repeated his criticism of Spitfire Player UI - unintuitive, lots of empty space, paginated mics, etc.
> Likes the JJ Mix sound but would preferred more RR & more layers rather than 20 mics.


Wow. Thanks. That's completely brilliant.


----------



## thereus

Saxer said:


> In Logic the SCS and SSS performance legatos use about 2/3 more CPU than the BBCSO legatos which have more or less the same features. I‘m really happy with the efficiency of the Spitfire player and glad that it isn‘t a Kontakt library.



OK, well that's interesting. Thanks.


----------



## NoamL

brenneisen said:


> not the same math $, though



I agree. Remember, not _my _opinion


----------



## NoamL

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I just finished working on this! I've only used the BBCSO plugin a few equalisers and a touch of verb at the end




Sounds great; good cohesive sound. I would definitely set all the sample releases to longer values than the default and resave the patches if possible, as the current values are... they're just not very good and detract from realism IMO.


----------



## cqd

Can you resave the patches without creating new ones?


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

NoamL said:


> Sounds great; good cohesive sound. I would definitely set all the sample releases to longer values than the default and resave the patches if possible, as the current values are... they're just not very good and detract from realism IMO.


I already did but unfortunately there isn't much that you can do with the legatos rather smoothing each singles curve at the end, I must have missed a few. That is where the problem originates I believe.


----------



## stigc56

Well I just bought the BBCSO. And the first patch I loaded was the trumpet a3. Sounds fine but problems with tuning between the different articulations. Thats actually the first time I have ever heard that. But I hope this could be resolved by an update.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

I'd like to chime in that I'd encourage people on the fence to watch people-- including Daniel James, a critic of it-- actually use the product in order to come to conclusions about the GUI. I personally greatly prefer it to most Kontakt libraries (since Kontakt has so much 3rd party work, there's a big variation there, so I won't say "better than Kontakt overall"). 

I find criticisms of the Spitfire player's discoverability to be fair, but I think its mostly a product of people who are new to the player itself and don't realize how much hunting they had to do to learn Kontakt, PLAY, etc. Indeed, I don't think Spitfire's player is a whole lot different in this area to their Kontakt libraries, which are largely composed of similar sets of somewhat vague icons and hidden setting pages-- the big change in the new player is the fact that the GUI isn't presented in tiny, barely legible, type, is resizable, and in my opinion, presents the mic options in a much cleaner fashion. 

The new Spitfire player feels like it is trying to get out of your way, Kontakt feels like it is constantly asking you to pay attention to scores of fiddly knobs, tiny text, and obscure icons-- not to mention devoting (at least in its default setting), a huge amount of its limited space to showing you a bunch of libraries that you probably aren't even using at the moment, which is to me at least as egregious as Spitfire's big reverb/tightness/release/vibrato/etc knob. 

In my limited experience playing with it, BBCSO's player is in some need of optimization. I'm running it on dual hexacore Xeons with 96 GB of RAM off of SSD's, and still occasionally hitting some hiccups when using more than a couple of mics. I think the next couple of weeks will be a good test case to see how they tighten up the player. 

As for the quality of the samples, I think time will tell. There's going to be some dislike of the more raw approach to these samples (I'm thinking of DJ's dislike of the orchestral chime specifically), but I frankly appreciate something that starts with how instruments in the orchestra actually sound, giving me the freedom to make my own adjustments as necessary-- others want something that works for them right out of the box, and I get that too. Personally I'd rather start with the raw data and move from there. 

Bottom line, this is a full-orchestral library that's been released for less than a week. I think it is going to take some time before we really know how good it is.


----------



## VinRice

mcalis said:


> I don't own this product, so I don't really have a horse in this race but, does anyone else think the GUI is kind of terrible? I know ustwo designed it which I think _perfectly_ explains why the GUI is in the state it's in. It's very designer-y, but it really doesn't seem practical at all.
> 
> Just a few things I noticed from various videos:
> 
> 
> Heaps of wasted space on both the top and bottom half of the interface, mostly on the top half.
> Paginated articulation selection. Why? With a little resizing and reshuffling you could get all the articulations in a single view, no extra clicks needed.
> "Always visible" articulation panel on the bottom right hand side. Does this info really always need to be in view? Is knowing how many RRs an art. has so important that it needs to be always directly visible? I'd say having every articulation in a single view is more important.
> Paginated microphone selection. Whyyyy? 1/3rd of the right hand view is taken up by a control that only applies to close/spot mics? What? Another 1/3rd is taken up by two toggles? Wouldn't users rather have a complete view of _all_ mics so you don't have to go through extra clicks to get to the one mic you care about?
> Gigantic round knob on the top half that controls values like "tightness" and "reverb" which could just as easily fit into a horizontal sliders with text labels to the side (like the old kontakt spitfire UIs). Currently, the user can't see the value of all these different settings at once but has to go through each of them to see their value on the ring (also, there's no visible numerical indicator when a value is set)
> Several non obvious hidden menus.
> Meaningless symbols for Expression, Modulation and whatever that doodle in the center of the Big Ass Knob is. Why not just label with "Expr." and "Mod."?
> From a UX perspective, the paginated articulation and mic selection are really quite egregious. I'm not sure how much ustwo was paid to make this, but... I imagine it's rather a lot and imo these are pretty basic mistakes.
> 
> Or am I completely off the mark here?



No, you are completely correct. When the HZ Strings came out I had exactly the same reaction. The UX absolutely sucks. I got very angry about it and even produced an 8-page pdf on all the problems, that I sent to Spitfire. A couple of things have been corrected but the fundamental design problems remain.

The underlying problem is that the original designers, USTwo, only had experience with web apps and had never designed a desktop plug-in, and it shows in the 'panelling' of the interface. The second problem is that Paul and Christian had a 'vision' for this IIO layout of the main controls, so of course now the company is politically wedded to this idea, even though it just doesn't work. There was also some bollocks about 'accessibility' which made absolutely no sense for an expensive professional tool.

There are a whole bunch of things that simply don't make sense and it still makes my blood boil. Aesthetics good, usability bad.

As our Lord Steve Jobs once said. "Good design is not about how a thing looks but how it works"

Strings sound amazing though.


----------



## Patrick.K

VinRice said:


> Strings sound amazing though.



Strings sound amazing though.


----------



## NoamL

The hieroglyphics feel designery for sure.

Yes, "CC1" or "Mod." are inscrutable to some people. So why not






or just






instead of






and similarly a clipart of a volume dial for CC11 since that's what expression kind of is.


----------



## Bluemount Score

VinRice said:


> Strings sound amazing though.


Are you talking about HZ Strings or BBCSO Strings? Both?


----------



## Patrick.K

Bluemount Score said:


> Are you talking about HZ Strings or BBCSO Strings? Both?


*BBSO Finally just from what I hear in the videos, for exemple BBSO Finally just from what I hear in the videos, for when it is well articulated, modwell controllers etc ...and talent https://soundcloud.com/mattiachiappa*


----------



## mistermister

NoamL said:


> The hieroglyphics feel designery for sure.
> 
> Yes, "CC1" or "Mod." are inscrutable to some people. So why not
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or just
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> instead of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and similarly a clipart of a volume dial for CC11 since that's what expression kind of is.


From a guess, because you would need to be musically inclined to understand that < is a hairpin, and is related to dynamics. A camera shutter opening and closing seems a more universal approach to describing volume/exposure.

Not saying it's the right symbol - just saying that not using complex notation you take for granted as knowing does line up with the 'accessibility' argument.


----------



## Daniel James

curtisschweitzer said:


> I'd like to chime in that I'd encourage people on the fence to watch people-- including Daniel James, a critic of it-- actually use the product in order to come to conclusions about the GUI. I personally greatly prefer it to most Kontakt libraries (since Kontakt has so much 3rd party work, there's a big variation there, so I won't say "better than Kontakt overall").
> 
> I find criticisms of the Spitfire player's discoverability to be fair, but I think its mostly a product of people who are new to the player itself and don't realize how much hunting they had to do to learn Kontakt, PLAY, etc. Indeed, I don't think Spitfire's player is a whole lot different in this area to their Kontakt libraries, which are largely composed of similar sets of somewhat vague icons and hidden setting pages-- the big change in the new player is the fact that the GUI isn't presented in tiny, barely legible, type, is resizable, and in my opinion, presents the mic options in a much cleaner fashion.
> 
> The new Spitfire player feels like it is trying to get out of your way, Kontakt feels like it is constantly asking you to pay attention to scores of fiddly knobs, tiny text, and obscure icons-- not to mention devoting (at least in its default setting), a huge amount of its limited space to showing you a bunch of libraries that you probably aren't even using at the moment, which is to me at least as egregious as Spitfire's big reverb/tightness/release/vibrato/etc knob.
> 
> In my limited experience playing with it, BBCSO's player is in some need of optimization. I'm running it on dual hexacore Xeons with 96 GB of RAM off of SSD's, and still occasionally hitting some hiccups when using more than a couple of mics. I think the next couple of weeks will be a good test case to see how they tighten up the player.
> 
> As for the quality of the samples, I think time will tell. There's going to be some dislike of the more raw approach to these samples (I'm thinking of DJ's dislike of the orchestral chime specifically), but I frankly appreciate something that starts with how instruments in the orchestra actually sound, giving me the freedom to make my own adjustments as necessary-- others want something that works for them right out of the box, and I get that too. Personally I'd rather start with the raw data and move from there.
> 
> Bottom line, this is a full-orchestral library that's been released for less than a week. I think it is going to take some time before we really know how good it is.



I have been using the GUI since HZ Strings. Wasn't a fan then and nothing overtly changed GUI wise except for the list where you can remove articulations and some pretty BBC logos. Its not a matter of spending time with it. Its a matter of form over function, looks very pretty but its annoyingly tedious to actually work with for longer sessions.

The low energy in the tubular bells just sounds like low resonant mud, cutting it away made the tubular bell sound more clean and it fit in with other instruments much more cleanly IMO. The only problem with this is, had it been a Kontakt library I could just go into the patch and use and EQ to fix the mud then resave the patch so its gone for good. But as we have no EQ options I am stuck with removing that mud every time I want to use that patch. There were a few odd mix issues in there, again all of which I could have fixed myself to make my life easier in Kontakt. Again little annoying things that overtime will add up to a good amount of time just faffing around with the Spitfire GUI to get to where I need to be.

Also I saw some ask if people actually watch someone play with sample libraries for 7 hours. Simple answer yes. Long answer, we had almost 2000 unique people view the stream yesterday over the 7 hours and that worked out as an average 150-200 people watching at any given time. And people do actually enjoy doing so, look how many questions in this thread have about the library, those on the live stream were able to ask in real time and have me go through it for them. They were able to discuss the library in a live chat with over a hundred other composers. And I try the best I can to make it feel like my viewers are there with me as much as I can. It isnt usually just me playing a note then moving on as quick as I can, its about interacting with all the people who came to see it and keep adjusting what we are doing based on my goals and the general mood of the viewers. Its very casual, I do streams on the weekend as my hobby so I enjoy it greatly. Besides I often work longer hours under much more stress so these streams are not that stressful to put on for me.

But anyway my more fleshed out thoughts are below.









-DJ


----------



## NoamL

mistermister said:


> From a guess, because you would need to be musically inclined to understand that < is a hairpin, and is related to dynamics. A camera shutter opening and closing seems a more universal approach to describing volume/exposure.
> 
> Not saying it's the right symbol - just saying that not using complex notation you take for granted as knowing does line up with the 'accessibility' argument.



OH! It's a camera shutter. I thought it was an expanding galaxy or something.

Anyway, it's a $1000 orchestral sample software.... I think it's not terrible to assume your customers have _seen_ music notation...


----------



## mistermister

NoamL said:


> OH! It's a camera shutter. I thought it was an expanding galaxy or something.
> 
> Anyway, it's a $1000 orchestral sample software.... I think it's not terrible to assume your customers have _seen_ music notation...


The sampler hasn't just been used in $1000 software though. It's primarily been the free labs so far with the odd expensive library. Again, not saying it's right or the right image, but for Labs range aimed at completely new users a non-musical, universal symbol makes sense and lines up with 'accessible' reasoning provided (at least to me).

That said, no reason it can't say 'dyn' or 'exp' etc under it just to relay the to the musically inclined users on a product such as BBCSO.


----------



## Patrick.K

Daniel James said:


> Also I saw some ask if people actually watch someone play with sample libraries for 7 hours. Simple answer yes. Long answer, we had almost 2000 unique people view the stream yesterday over the 7 hours and that worked out as an average 150-200 people watching at any given time. And people do actually enjoy doing so, look how many questions in this thread have about the library, those on the live stream were able to ask in real time and have me go through it for them. They were able to discuss the library in a live chat with over a hundred other composers.



Thank you very much Mr James for your work, very interesting, and it allows to see a little clearer, because you take your time.


----------



## cqd

There's no way to get your money back is there?


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Daniel James said:


> I have been using the GUI since HZ Strings. Wasn't a fan then and nothing overtly changed GUI wise except for the list where you can remove articulations and some pretty BBC logos. Its not a matter of spending time with it. Its a matter of form over function, looks very pretty but its annoyingly tedious to actually work with for longer sessions.



I personally disagree, and find most Kontakt UI's significantly more tedious, but I think this might just be a workflow or personal opinion matter. I think its worth hearing your critiques of it, and I especially appreciate how you took such an in-depth look at it, because I think that's more valuable to prospective buyers than a pithy few paragraphs here on VI-Control!



Daniel James said:


> The low energy in the tubular bells just sounds like low resonant mud, cutting it away made the tubular bell sound more clean and it fit in with other instruments much more cleanly IMO. The only problem with this is, had it been a Kontakt library I could just go into the patch and use and EQ to fix the mud then resave the patch so its gone for good. But as we have no EQ options I am stuck with removing that mud every time I want to use that patch. There were a few odd mix issues in there, again all of which I could have fixed myself to make my life easier in Kontakt. Again little annoying things that overtime will add up to a good amount of time just faffing around with the Spitfire GUI to get to where I need to be.



The resonant stuff you're talking about is almost exclusively from the close mic-- I loaded up the same patch and if you load only tree it's basically gone-- which isn't a defense of this necessarily, just a note of where it comes from. (Also, presumably you could save a version of the patch without the close mic loaded, which is to be just as tedious as going into a fiddly Kontakt menu to EQ it yourself). 

Again, my approach/workflow is to have the actual sound of an actual orchestral chime with the same mics available on the rest of the orchestra and make adjustments as needed, but in an environment where you'd like something cleaner out of the box, I get where you are coming from. It might need to be massaged, and for a lot of people that's an understandable mark against it. I think it is valuable to have your perspective on this precisely because some folks shouldn't buy this if that's a dealbreaker for them.



Daniel James said:


> Also I saw some ask if people actually watch someone play with sample libraries for 7 hours.



Personally? I loved it. Thanks for doing it-- I think it is really valuable to have your perspective. It isn't the same as mine on a lot of things, but I can't really argue with you taking the time to delve into it. As far as I'm concerned, why *wouldn't* you want 7 hours of walkthrough on a product this big?


----------



## Bluemount Score

cqd said:


> There's no way to get your money back is there?


Once you downloaded the product, no.


----------



## cqd

Damn educational discount..


----------



## Noeticus

Thank you very much, Daniel James!!!

I watching your BBCSO material on Youtube now.


----------



## Patrick.K

curtisschweitzer said:


> Personally? I loved it. Thanks for doing it-- I think it is really valuable to have your perspective. It isn't the same as mine on a lot of things, but I can't really argue with you taking the time to delve into it. As far as I'm concerned, why *wouldn't* you want 7 hours of walkthrough on a product this big?


----------



## cqd

The memory seems to climb simultaneously across all the plug-ins too, in PT anyway.. like, the 14 articulation violins patch is showing the same memory usage in the plug-in as the Celeste..


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

cqd said:


> The memory seems to climb simultaneously across all the plug-ins too, in PT anyway.. like, the 14 articulation violins patch is showing the same memory usage in the plug-in as the Celeste..


Each plugin is meant to show the memory of all BBCSO plugins together.


----------



## VinRice

Bluemount Score said:


> Are you talking about HZ Strings or BBCSO Strings? Both?



BBCSO. I haven't been able to find a use for HZ Strings, ever.


----------



## cqd

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Each plugin is meant to show the memory of all BBCSO plugins together.



Does that make sense?..but ok..


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

cqd said:


> Does that make sense?..but ok..


Makes it difficult to see which instance consumes how much memory. I would personally prefer that each instance only shows its own memory and not global.


----------



## AllanH

mcalis said:


> ...
> From a UX perspective, the paginated articulation and mic selection are really quite egregious. I'm not sure how much ustwo was paid to make this, but... I imagine it's rather a lot and imo these are pretty basic mistakes.
> 
> Or am I completely off the mark here?



I agree with you. The UX wastes enormous amounts of space, requires otherwise unnecessary user-interaction based on the tabbing (lots of mousing), and chooses to not use color other than in the most rudamentary way. 

This is not a mobile device where there is some value in high contrast and visual simplicity. 

I would have unrolled on the articulations at the bottom, reduced the mega-dial to a fader, used the "freed up" space for some of the misc. stuff currently in the lower half, and found a way to provide some information using color.


----------



## redlester

I doubt I will ever use the big dial or some of the other controls other than to initially set up the sound of a patch. For anything else I tend to draw in automation. So I don’t really care about the wasted space etc. But I can totally understand some of the comments.

As for the colour/contrast, I much prefer BBC to EWC (main plugin, not the Evo’s) which I find horrible to look at.


----------



## dzilizzi

synkrotron said:


> Still too early in my opinion... Much to be thrashed through and Spitfire Audio could do with at least showing signs that they are listening and reacting to what is being said here, from both the positive and negative perspectives.


There have been a few comments. They are using their user accounts rather than the official Spitfire one. I'm sure they are keeping an eye on this. I seem to remember hearing many of these gui complaints with HZS. So not sure how much will change any time soon.


----------



## cqd

Tbh the GUI wouldn't be top of the list of my complaints..


----------



## cqd

I'm thinking I might take up meditation for the time I spend waiting for things to load up..


----------



## CT

GUI: This is pretty low on my list of concerns; actually, it isn't even on the list. I just don't give much thought to this with anything, and I've not yet found myself cursing out any developers over usability. I don't look at the GUI all that much once things are set up.

Raw sound/mellow dynamics: Fine by me. Hyped "cinematic" libraries have their place, but that's not at all what I'm after with this. I want something that sounds accurate and unadorned without being sterile.

Performance: This is what I'm closely monitoring as my mouse hovers over the buy button....


----------



## Zero&One

cqd said:


> I'm thinking I might take up meditation for the time I spend waiting for things to load up..



What are you loading? How many instances?
I can try to emulate and see what timings I get


----------



## Steve Wheeler

I don't have it, but brass doesn't seem to get too loud on a lot of the patches from what I've seen. That's kind of been my experience with most of the Spitfire stuff I've got. I don't know if this is just them not wanting to wear out the players or if they're specifically aiming for a more subdued sound, but it does seem like it'd limit its usage for my purposes.

Sounds like it'd be great for underscore, though. Just probably don't want to get too bombastic with it.


----------



## cqd

James H said:


> What are you loading? How many instances?
> I can try to emulate and see what timings I get



Well, like, a template.. pretty much everything loaded up..
I'm going to have to try to cut everything back next, but, like, there was talk of full templates taking 12 and 24 GB ram..
This is on a fairly new system..i9..SSD.. even when it does load it's just clunky..


----------



## CT

Am I the only one encouraged by the fact that this *isn't* a balls-out, modern cinematic music tool? I honestly never expected/wanted it to be....


----------



## cqd

miket said:


> Am I the only one encouraged by the fact that this *isn't* a balls-out, modern cinematic music tool? I honestly never expected/wanted it to be....



It's not particularly soft either though.. there's just the two dynamic layers pretty much..


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

This might be a newbie question not related to BBCSO.. but how do you in general handle unwanted bow changes in the middle of a sustained note within a Legato patch? Remember I had the exact same struggles with EWQLSO.

I'm playing with the leader patches trying to fit in a lyrical piece, but I'm struggling with the Legato patch when it just changes bow in the middle of a sustained note. It's not like I am trying to fit in unrealisticly long sections.
Weird enough, I'm not hearing the bow changes at lower dynamics, and it almost seems a infinite bow there. Wondering what the actual intended behaviour of the two is.


----------



## CT

cqd said:


> It's not particularly soft either though.. there's just the two dynamic layers pretty much..



On which articulations, though? 

From the voice counts in the walkthrough videos, the fundamental longs, etc., seem to have more than two, which is where it counts. The legatos have that scaled back, as Spitfire always does. I don't know why, but presumably there's a non-arbitrary reason. I never have much need for legato at dynamic extremes, anyway. 

Many of the articulations beyond those core sounds don't really exist, or need to exist, across the same wide dynamic spectrum, so two, or even one, suffices.

In any case, the sound and programming is what matters, not the actual count of these things, and what I have heard so far seems more than adequate for quite a bit of music.


----------



## I like music

Sjoerd Visser said:


> This might be a newbie question not related to BBCSO.. but how do you in general handle unwanted bow changes in the middle of a sustained note within a Legato patch? Remember I had the exact same struggles with EWQLSO.
> 
> I'm playing with the leader patches trying to fit in a lyrical piece, but I'm struggling with the Legato patch when it just changes bow in the middle of a sustained note. It's not like I am trying to fit in unrealisticly long sections.
> Weird enough, I'm not hearing the bow changes at lower dynamics, and it almost seems a infinite bow there. Wondering what the actual intended behaviour of the two is.



Ah wow, you're hearing an audible bow-change? Are you able to post any examples at all? And is this happening on different notes/pitches at high dynamics, or just one/few?


----------



## ed buller

thereus said:


> Could somebody provide a one-paragraph précis, please?


'It's not worth it"

e


----------



## cqd

miket said:


> On which articulations, though?
> 
> From the voice counts in the walkthrough videos, the fundamental longs, etc., seem to have more than two, which is where it counts. The legatos have that scaled back, as Spitfire always does. I don't know why, but presumably there's a non-arbitrary reason. I never have much need for legato at dynamic extremes, anyway.
> 
> Many of the articulations beyond those core sounds don't really exist, or need to exist, across the same wide dynamic spectrum, so two, or even one, suffices.
> 
> In any case, the sound and programming is what matters, not the actual count of these things, and what I have heard so far seems more than adequate for quite a bit of music.



I dunno man..the longs seem lacking tbh.. the programming sucks ass..
Well, don't say I didn't warn you..


----------



## I like music

ed buller said:


> 'It's not worth it"
> 
> e



Sorry to hear that, man. Anytime someone spends more than "8dio sale" levels of money on a library and isn't happy with it, I feel quite sad.


----------



## dzilizzi

As far as all the mics go, Paul said the main reason for that was to allow composers to get a different sound than others so you can't say it all sounds alike. I don't think I said that quite right. But people did have the concern everyone would have the same sound using the BBCSO. Paul's thought was by mixing up the mics, you could have a different sound from everyone else. I'm hoping it works that way.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, if you've 200 gig of ram..


----------



## CT

cqd said:


> Well, don't say I didn't warn you..



Ok, I won't hold you personally responsible if I buy this and it ends my ability to make music.


----------



## synkrotron

I must say that having an orchestra at my finger tips that sounds the same in different hands doesn't worry me at all. At the end of the day, is it not what you do with it? It is an orchestra, strings, woodwinds, brass, all that kind of stuff.

I can understand worrying about getting a "unique sound" when using synths or instruments that rely on original sound design.


Of course, I am still very new to this so I may well be missing something here.

Please, educate me


----------



## Zedcars

Regarding the UI, I did a rough and ready PS edit which shows what an 'Advanced View' _could_ look like should they decide to implement that in the future. All arcs visible, and mixer channels reduced to only 2 pages. I've made the wheel a slider. It's a bit squashed in, but you get the idea:


----------



## Consona

I like music said:


> Sorry to hear that, man. Anytime someone spends more than "8dio sale" levels of money on a library and isn't happy with it, I feel quite sad.


You can mourn for me. I spent too much money on Spitfire and 8dio libraries I've virtually never used. At this point the only thing from these developers that would make me happy is an announcement of the resell option.


----------



## synkrotron

Consona said:


> I spent too much money on Spitfire and 8dio libraries I've virtually never used.



I am only guessing here but, no one made you spend that money.

Correct me if I am wrong...


----------



## I like music

Consona said:


> You can mourn for me. I spent too much money on Spitfire and 8dio libraries I've virtually never used. At this point the only thing from these developers that would make me happy is an announcement of the resell option.



Ouch. What's crazy is that I have some _great_ libraries that I'll not use much at all (BWW etc) just because I realised after doing some testing that I just can't handle the keyswitching side of things. And I sat down and counted how much money I've spent on libraries I'll not use. Makes me shiver, and I've bought far far far less than a lot of people on this forum. At least none of them were terrible. I just don't have enough space on my computer to want them all loaded up.

Your scenario sounds really bad. But you've got some good libraries along the way I assume?


----------



## Consona

synkrotron said:


> I am only guessing here but, no one made you spend that money.
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong...


And that's the reason some companies allow a resell and some don't?


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

I like music said:


> Ah wow, you're hearing an audible bow-change? Are you able to post any examples at all? And is this happening on different notes/pitches at high dynamics, or just one/few?



See attached a dry example. Basically all just legato transitions used here.
Also can hear a very big change in volume in the last note.. but all I'm changing is the vibrato while the expression and modulation stay the same.


----------



## synkrotron

Consona said:


> And that's the reason some companies allow a resell and some don't?



No idea.

But, again, you knew about that before parting with your hard earned.


----------



## Zero&One

cqd said:


> Well, like, a template.. pretty much everything loaded up..
> I'm going to have to try to cut everything back next, but, like, there was talk of full templates taking 12 and 24 GB ram..
> This is on a fairly new system..i9..SSD.. even when it does load it's just clunky..



Mine does on a 2009 Mac to be fair, fully loaded. But I'm still not loading everything up in one go.
A patch takes seconds to load when I need. Can't see the problem?

What's the burning desire to have everything loaded?


----------



## Daniel James

Zedcars said:


> Regarding the UI, I did a rough and ready PS edit which shows what an 'Advanced View' _could_ look like should they decide to implement that in the future. All arcs visible, and mixer channels reduced to only 2 pages. I've made the wheel a slider. It's a bit squashed in, but you get the idea:



You could shrink the needlessly large close spot signal graphicas and move that over to the bottom left, giving you more room for MICS!

-DJ


----------



## AEF

I th


dzilizzi said:


> As far as all the mics go, Paul said the main reason for that was to allow composers to get a different sound than others so you can't say it all sounds alike. I don't think I said that quite right. But people did have the concern everyone would have the same sound using the BBCSO. Paul's thought was by mixing up the mics, you could have a different sound from everyone else. I'm hoping it works that way.



It takes way less studio time (and therefore $$) to record 20 mics and 2 dynamic layers, than it does to record 3 mic positions and 3-4 dynamic layers and twice the arts.

I supposed the extra mics could be used to match other libraries, but ultimately you will probably need to use verbs to make it fit together anyway.

And my issue with using Mix1 for everything is you lose a natural balance and depth of the orchestra. 

It would be a better product IMO if it contained tree, close, and ambient mics alone, with the tree as the default setup. Perhaps even a tree only library, which would come out to a fraction of the gigabyte size and sound probably more balanced out of the box.


----------



## Soundhound

The GUI needs work, but I think they're on the right track. It's good looking and is trying to follow the Jobsian precept of simplicity, but winds up with function following form in too many instances, feeling like the graphic designers were in control when the composers should have been. The big knob is the most obvious. Why would I need a giant knob to control reverb? Or tightness (unless people ride the tightness control as we do Expression and Dynamics??), or anything for that matter?

Someone earlier suggested an option for an 'expert' or 'advanced' etc. option, seems like a great idea. It would serve SA's appeal to a wider audience (the current gui), while giving more experienced composers fast access to the functions they need while working. This is exactly what the Apple interface was always brilliant at; you can dive right in, and once you are comfortable find ways to work more efficiently. SA's design is well considered for the first need, but they need to provide an easily switchable option for the second. They're wagging the dog a bit -- hyped marketing and simple design, check, intriguing product concepts, check, seamlessly executed functionality needs to be next.

I say this all with love. I've been a fan of theirs a long time. I loved the early concept and vibe of their site, and used it as an example of elegant branding any number of times with colleagues and clients. With the period photographs and cheeky copy, it gave a lovely feeling of a company run by people you can relate to (I did anyway) who share your love of music. When they relaunched the marketing (which happened when they were bought, I think?) I understood the need, but always wished they'd kept that feeling, while creating more noise which the new marketing certainly does. It didn't have to lose the sense of humor to be impactful. (See Apple's earlier period of marketing, simple, powerful, while always fun and irreverent). Put the cheekiness back in, boys, it's not going to turn anyone off. Bombast is easy, winning personality is hard if you don't have it, but you guys have it in spades. Bring it back!

Paul and Christian have kept this up with their videos and various projects which I imagine is where the marketing people felt it should be and that's fine. But the hype over function seems to have crept into the product itself, the GUI. It's the steering wheel/gas pedal of the product we all have our hands on all day long, and hype shouldn't be in charge there. That's the challenge of really great design of any kind, get form to follow function while being simple and beautiful.

The 'advanced' or whatever option on the GUI would really be a great approach. CH? PT?

Btw so far I'm not having any trouble at all loading Christian's template and writing my terrible music. I'm on a 2012 imac 3.4ghz i7 with 32 gigs.


----------



## Consona

synkrotron said:


> No idea.
> 
> But, again, you knew about that before parting with your hard earned.


The only think I know is, I was stupid to buy those things, I've learnt from it, and that's that since there's nothing more I can do about it. Yea, I can bitch about it, of course.






Sorry for this off-topic.


----------



## mistermister

cqd said:


> Well, like, a template.. pretty much everything loaded up..
> I'm going to have to try to cut everything back next, but, like, there was talk of full templates taking 12 and 24 GB ram..
> This is on a fairly new system..i9..SSD.. even when it does load it's just clunky..


Have you contacted support? i7 SSD and loading relatively quickly for me. Is it an internal SSD, or external USB?


----------



## Bluemount Score

mistermister said:


> Have you contacted support? i7 SSD and loading relatively quickly for me. Is it an internal SSD, or external USB?


Question back to you, do you use an internal or external SSD? I have an i7 8700k and an external SSD. Loading times are fine now, still you have to be a little more patient than with Kontakt libraries about the same size. Playing some notes sometimes seem to speed up the process (which shouldn't be the case imo).


----------



## synkrotron

Consona said:


> I was stupid to buy those things



Possibly... But I don't think so. Unless you, or someone in your care is suffering as a result. Of course, never will know for sure and we could all say, when sitting in the soup kitchen, "probably shouldn't have bought that flash car/boat/world cruise."



Consona said:


> I can bitch about it, of course



Well, yes, that is true


----------



## cqd

mistermister said:


> Have you contacted support? i7 SSD and loading relatively quickly for me. Is it an internal SSD, or external USB?



No, I will do tomorrow or tuesday..its an interal ssd..is yours actually loading quickly though?, can you play all the instruments before you want to throw something at the screen?..It's caused PT to kind of break up a few times now too, where everything is just kind of distorting..maybe it's something to do with aax..what buffer settigs are you using?

@Consona ..I feel that was quite on topic actually..


----------



## Consona

cqd said:


> @Consona ..I feel that was quite on topic actually..


Really? Then where's my f***ing resell option, hm? Spitfire?


----------



## dzilizzi

cqd said:


> No, I will do tomorrow or tuesday..its an interal ssd..is yours actually loading quickly though?, can you play all the instruments before you want to throw something at the screen?..It's caused PT to kind of break up a few times now too, where everything is just kind of distorting..maybe it's something to do with aax..what buffer settigs are you using?
> 
> @Consona ..I feel that was quite on topic actually..


This is what concerns me. I like ProTools. But the AAX thing. Why can't they be like everyone else and use VST?


----------



## Steve Wheeler

dzilizzi said:


> This is what concerns me. I like ProTools. But the AAX thing. Why can't they be like everyone else and use VST?


Logic uses AU only and no one seems to complain.


----------



## dzilizzi

Steve Wheeler said:


> Logic uses AU only and no one seems to complain.


Ah, but most of the Spitfire guys use AU. 

I have a number of VST plugins that don't come in AAX. And I am PC, so Logic never hits my radar on a normal basis.


----------



## I like music

synkrotron said:


> Possibly... But I don't think so. Unless you, or someone in your care is suffering as a result. Of course, never will know for sure and we could all say, when sitting in the soup kitchen, "probably shouldn't have bought that flash car/boat/world cruise."
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes, that is true



"What brings you to the soup kitchen?"
"Couldn't resell my BBCSO, so I thought I'll buy 96gb of RAM so that I can load all the mics up and play it without a hitch. If I can't sell it, might as well make the most of it. Then realised that the motherboard couldn't handle that much RAM. Thought fuck it, and bought that expensive new Mac. Realised Cubase was misbehaving on Catalina, so got Logic Pro. Anyways, by the time all this was done, OT released Junkie XL Brass, and then CSW came out. So here I am, at the soup kitchen."


----------



## AndyP

Zedcars said:


>


Could you make it less black?
SA has the opinion that they change the black only if they find a darker color.


----------



## Steve Wheeler

dzilizzi said:


> Ah, but most of the Spitfire guys use AU.
> 
> I have a number of VST plugins that don't come in AAX. And I am PC, so Logic never hits my radar on a normal basis.


Honestly, I'm thinking of moving to Cubase when there's a lull in projects. There's lots of good free plugins that seem to be VST only. Gotta demo it thoroughly first though.


----------



## gtrwll

I tried raising the preload size to 20000, and for some odd reason it seems to have worked on my system, at least partially. It doesn't seem to affect RAM that much. I even dared to add an extra mic to a few instruments, although I still have the patches stripped down to a 1-2 articulations. No dropouts or glitches after the change, which is strange as I run the library from an internal SSD (which I wouldn't classify as slow).


----------



## dzilizzi

Steve Wheeler said:


> Honestly, I'm thinking of moving to Cubase when there's a lull in projects. There's lots of good free plugins that seem to be VST only. Gotta demo it thoroughly first though.


I greatly dislike Cubase. It is not intuitive. That said, you may love it. Studio One is much easier. But Cubase is maybe better if you are a composer.


----------



## Zero&One

For info:

I just loaded the full thing to time on:
2009 Mac, 48GB, 2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
7min 40sec
Logic 19GB Memory

Might help people... might not

Not the way I work or will start to either. But even if I did, 8mins isn't anywhere near as bad as some people are making out for a full orchestra? Is it just me?
Make a brew and it's done


----------



## synkrotron

James H said:


> Make a brew and it's done



Not Tetley Tea Bags, then... Takes about fifty seconds...

Must be one of them herbal infusions...


----------



## cqd

James H said:


> For info:
> 
> I just loaded the full thing to time on:
> 2009 Mac, 48GB, 2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
> 7min 40sec
> Logic 19GB Memory
> 
> Might help people... might not
> 
> Not the way I work or will start to either. But even if I did, 8mins isn't anywhere near as bad as some people are making out for a full orchestra? Is it just me?
> Make a brew and it's done



19 gb..there's something different so between logic and everything else..
8 minutes wouldn't be too bad..
But like, isn't it being sold as a full orchestra etc?..
I can watch the memory climb to 60 gig ish as everything loads..


----------



## redlester

AndyP said:


> Could you make it less black?
> SA has the opinion that they change the black only if they find a darker color.



“It’s like how much more black could this be, and the answer is none. None more black”. 🤣


----------



## dzilizzi

synkrotron said:


> Not Tetley Tea Bags, then... Takes about fifty seconds...
> 
> Must be one of them herbal infusions...


Coffee. My machine takes about 5 minutes. My cup is pretty big.


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> I greatly dislike Cubase. It is not intuitive. That said, you may love it. Studio One is much easier. But Cubase is maybe better if you are a composer.


Funny, I’ve found Cubase to be the most intuitive compared to Logic and Ableton. I haven’t tried any others to comment (apart from Opcode Studio Vision back in the day!).


----------



## synkrotron

dzilizzi said:


> My machine takes about 5 minutes



Sounds posh  


We've got one of them Hotel Chocolat Velvetiser things... Very nice, if you like chocolate  





__





Hot Chocolate Machine - The Velvetiser


In-home hot chocolate system. Barista-grade hot chocolate Hotel Chocolat




www.hotelchocolat.com


----------



## Alex Fraser

synkrotron said:


> Not Tetley Tea Bags, then... Takes about fifty seconds...
> 
> Must be one of them herbal infusions...


I don’t want to start another food war in this thread (though maybe I do - it’s starting to get a bit grumpy)

...but Yorkshire Tea is the only brew worth having. Everything else is swill.


----------



## cqd

Lads..Barry's tea..


----------



## Steve Wheeler

dzilizzi said:


> I greatly dislike Cubase. It is not intuitive. That said, you may love it. Studio One is much easier. But Cubase is maybe better if you are a composer.


I am largely a composer. I have an older version of Studio One (version 2 I think?) that I wasn't super into. May check it out again. I realize it's been a couple of versions since my last update. Doesn't seem like it has articulation maps, which is a bummer for me. 

That said, some of the things in Logic are nice, but some things really baffle me (bus behavior is sometimes weird especially).


----------



## Zero&One

cqd said:


> 19 gb..there's something different so between logic and everything else..
> 8 minutes wouldn't be too bad..
> But like, isn't it being sold as a full orchestra etc?..
> I can watch the memory climb to 60 gig ish as everything loads..



Yeah I agree, there's certainly something more optimised for Logic if that's not what you are experiencing.
I'm sure they will address performance over the coming weeks. Drop them support ticket with timings, copy mine in for comparison if that helps.


----------



## synkrotron

Alex Fraser said:


> but Yorkshire Tea is the only brew worth having



In your humble opinion! haha!

Twinings Earl Grey here, black, a couple of Splenda cos I couldn't give up the Evil White Powder.


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> Funny, I’ve found Cubase to be the most intuitive compared to Logic and Ableton. I haven’t tried any others to comment (apart from Opcode Studio Vision back in the day!).


It's little things like having to activate tracks before you can edit them. I've had less problems with each version. But with 8 Pro, it kept doing weird things with my inputs and outputs. I know how to fix Pro Tools and S1 seems to be similar. I've used Reason, Sonar and Ableton as well. Cubase is just different. There are things, like the inspector strip, that I do like.


----------



## Zero&One

synkrotron said:


> ...a couple of Splenda cos I couldn't give up the Evil White Powder.



You have cocaine with Earl Grey? Rock star stuff that man


----------



## dzilizzi

synkrotron said:


> Sounds posh
> 
> 
> We've got one of them Hotel Chocolat Velvetiser things... Very nice, if you like chocolate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hot Chocolate Machine - The Velvetiser
> 
> 
> In-home hot chocolate system. Barista-grade hot chocolate Hotel Chocolat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hotelchocolat.com


Nice. I'm just talking my basic coffeemaker. My fancy espresso machine takes a little longer. And I have to clean it after each use.


----------



## synkrotron

James H said:


> You have cocaine with Earl Grey?



Erm... no, that other Evil White Powder... Sugar


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> It's little things like having to activate tracks before you can edit them. I've had less problems with each version. But with 8 Pro, it kept doing weird things with my inputs and outputs. I know how to fix Pro Tools and S1 seems to be similar. I've used Reason, Sonar and Ableton as well. Cubase is just different. There are things, like the inspector strip, that I do like.


Not quite sure what you mean by having to activate the track before you can edit it. It needs to be enabled if it’s an audio track - is that what you mean? 

In fact, I seem to be able to edit it just fine when it’s disabled, which I didn’t even know until now. Haha


----------



## Fleer

Mariage Frères, bien sûr.


----------



## Steve Wheeler

dzilizzi said:


> It's little things like having to activate tracks before you can edit them. I've had less problems with each version. But with 8 Pro, it kept doing weird things with my inputs and outputs. I know how to fix Pro Tools and S1 seems to be similar. I've used Reason, Sonar and Ableton as well. Cubase is just different. There are things, like the inspector strip, that I do like.


See, I migrated from Sonar earlier on in the X series. There were some fantastic features like the scripting and how busses were laid out in a floating frame beneath the tracks in the arrange view, but the UI was supremely messy. Shortcut keys seemed unintuitive for a lot of stuff. Much slower for me overall. Honestly wish it was different because some things were great.


----------



## cqd

I need someone to set up my midi properly on cubase..every track i record is affected by midi input..it's just arseways anyway..


----------



## Zedcars

Zedcars said:


> Not quite sure what you mean by having to activate the track before you can edit it. It needs to be enabled if it’s an audio track - is that what you mean?
> 
> In fact, I seem to be able to edit it just fine when it’s disabled, which I didn’t even know until now. Haha


Oh, do you mean activate the project?


----------



## Zero&One

dzilizzi said:


> Nice. I'm just talking my basic coffeemaker. My fancy espresso machine takes a little longer. And I have to clean it after each use.



This thread will cost me a fortune. Now I want a "The Velvetiser"


----------



## Zedcars

Just placed a bet at Ladbrokes that this thread will hit 10,000 posts by Christmas. Going to be a nice little earner for me if my horse romps home.


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> Not quite sure what you mean by having to activate the track before you can edit it. It needs to be enabled if it’s an audio track - is that what you mean?
> 
> In fact, I seem to be able to edit it just fine when it’s disabled, which I didn’t even know until now. Haha


If you want to edit a midi track you have to highlight the bars you want to edit first. You can't just click on the midi editor and edit. I've edited unelected areas only to find the don't save the edit. Select All only works if there is something in the bar. Unlike every other DAW where you open the midi editor, edit whatever, and it's done.


----------



## synkrotron

Over the years I have only used three different DAW. Well, four if you count Deluxe Music Construction Set on the Amiga.

Was a faithful follower of Cakewalk which then turned into Sonar. Then when that went a bit pear shaped I tried Studio One 3 for about a year, and I liked it, but then it wouldn't work on my new Surface Pro. So I ended up switching over to REAPER, having already purchased it a couple of years earlier, just to try.

Between the three I always found that I picked them up quite quickly.

Only other one I tried, at the time of Sonar's demise, was Samplitude, cos it was on a deal at the time, and I struggled with that one... A bit different to any of the other DAW I had used, and it was easier to dump that and put all my effort into REAPER.

Only reason I never ventured into Pro Tools is cos I have never considered myself to be a Pro. And way back when it was so damn expensive that it was never, ever an option. I guess that has all changed now.

Cubase... Well, I also tried that out, oh, getting on for well over twenty five years now... Cubasis Lite I think it was. Not a fair comparison, for sure, but it put me off from trying it out again... And then they went all hardware dongle, which was another nail in its coffin for me.

Might try it out some time, if I get bored...


----------



## Noeticus

Zedcars said:


> Regarding the UI, I did a rough and ready PS edit which shows what an 'Advanced View' _could_ look like should they decide to implement that in the future. All arcs visible, and mixer channels reduced to only 2 pages. I've made the wheel a slider. It's a bit squashed in, but you get the idea:


 
This is indeed BRILLIANT !!! Oh, and ever so obvious.


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> If you want to edit a midi track you have to highlight the bars you want to edit first. You can't just click on the midi editor and edit. I've edited unelected areas only to find the don't save the edit. Select All only works if there is something in the bar. Unlike every other DAW where you open the midi editor, edit whatever, and it's done.



Hmmm, well when I want to edit a midi part - I just double click, the part opens in my preferred editor and I can edit to my hearts content. I don’t think I’m quite understanding your point, but maybe it’s because I’m a bit of a thicko


----------



## synkrotron

Fleer said:


> Mariage Frères, bien sûr.



Had to google that


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> Oh, do you mean activate the project?





synkrotron said:


> Over the years I have only used three different DAW. Well, four if you count Deluxe Music Construction Set on the Amiga.
> 
> Was a faithful follower of Cakewalk which then turned into Sonar. Then when that went a bit pear shaped I tried Studio One 3 for about a year, and I liked it, but then it wouldn't work on my new Surface Pro. So I ended up switching over to REAPER, having already purchased it a couple of years earlier, just to try.
> 
> Between the three I always found that I picked them up quite quickly.
> 
> Only other one I tried, at the time of Sonar's demise, was Samplitude, cos it was on a deal at the time, and I struggled with that one... A bit different to any of the other DAW I had used, and it was easier to dump that and put all my effort into REAPER.
> 
> Only reason I never ventured into Pro Tools is cos I have never considered myself to be a Pro. And way back when it was so damn expensive that it was never, ever an option. I guess that has all changed now.
> 
> Cubase... Well, I also tried that out, oh, getting on for well over twenty five years now... Cubasis Lite I think it was. Not a fair comparison, for sure, but it put me off from trying it out again... And then they went all hardware dongle, which was another nail in its coffin for me.
> 
> Might try it out some time, if I get bored...


Pro Tools LE was free*



*with purchase of a somewhat expensive Mbox audio interface


----------



## Steve Wheeler

dzilizzi said:


> Pro Tools LE was free*
> 
> 
> 
> *with purchase of a somewhat expensive Mbox audio interface


*somewhat expensive, and relatively shitty


----------



## cqd

Just a quick tip for anyone concerning how to make a cup of tea..heat the cup first..then put the water in before the teabag..


----------



## synkrotron

dzilizzi said:


> *with purchase of a somewhat expensive Mbox audio interface



Ah, yes, I seem to recall that "deal."


----------



## Alex Fraser

Unpopular opinion: I like the GUI.

Sure, if Paul T phoned me over a cup of tea to ask my opinion, I’d offer up a few tweaks. But generally I find it calming and unobtrusive. Not a huge sea of info at all times. YMMV etc.


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> Hmmm, well when I want to edit a midi part - I just double click, the part opens in my preferred editor and I can edit to my hearts content. I don’t think I’m quite understanding your point, but maybe it’s because I’m a bit of a thicko


No, I think you probably record into the track first. Sometimes i just need to draw in a single note because the VI is an instrument that plays a phrase off of a note. And the manual just says click in the area. But it doesn't work for me. This is normal. Computers don't like my magnetic personality.


----------



## synkrotron

Alex Fraser said:


> I like the GUI



Ditto.

Especially the black.

I wish I could change the LABS GUI to black...


----------



## dzilizzi

Steve Wheeler said:


> *somewhat expensive, and relatively shitty


On a more positive note, my MBox2 still works and I sometimes use it over my Scarlett.


----------



## Noeticus

The GUI color on all apps worldwide should be user settable, and I would set them all to Dark Grey.


----------



## dzilizzi

Noeticus said:


> The GUI color on all apps worldwide should be user settable, and I would set them all the Dark Grey.


I'd probably go with a nice sage green myself. Or bright Orange.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Let’s face it, VST graphic design is pretty bad generally. Skeuomorphism is weirdly still popular.

How many other IT professions are forced to work in low res, Kontakt sized windows? Not many..


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Unpopular opinion: I like the GUI.
> 
> Sure, if Paul T phoned me over a cup of tea to ask my opinion, I’d offer up a few tweaks. But generally I find it calming and unobtrusive. Not a huge sea of info at all times. YMMV etc.


Maybe they should have asked you to help when they designed a plane's cockpit:


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> Maybe they should have asked you to help when they designed a plane's cockpit:


Shoot! Its amazing more planes don't crash. That is way too much to keep track of.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Maybe they should have asked you to help when they designed a plane's cockpit:


Actually I find that beautiful. But that’s an old analogue vintage 747 cockpit!


----------



## GingerMaestro

Could someone explain what Apple AU is and what it means/does. I'm a bit confused by this...Thanks


----------



## dzilizzi

Alex Fraser said:


> Actually I find that beautiful. But that’s an old analogue vintage 747 cockpit!


Ah, so they would have had a flight engineer to help. That's good. 

Though I'm glad the GUI isn't that crowded. Maybe something in between?


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

GingerMaestro said:


> Could someone explain what Apple AU is and what it means/does. I'm a bit confused by this...Thanks


AU = Audio Unit, in principle just another format for plugins besides VST, RTAS or AAX.


----------



## Fleer

Am I the only one liking the graphics of Spitfire’s GUI?
It’s made by UsTwo, the developers of stunningly beautiful games like Monument Valley:





ustwo Games


We want our games to leave a lasting impression so we lean into real life experiences and interests outside of games to create experiences…




www.ustwogames.co.uk


----------



## zolhof

James H said:


> For info:
> 
> I just loaded the full thing to time on:
> 2009 Mac, 48GB, 2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
> 7min 40sec
> Logic 19GB Memory
> 
> Might help people... might not
> 
> Not the way I work or will start to either. But even if I did, 8mins isn't anywhere near as bad as some people are making out for a full orchestra? Is it just me?
> Make a brew and it's done



All tracks ready to play? i.e. you load the template, click on the Violas track, bang some keys and beautiful music comes out of it? If so, that's some voodoo magic right there!

In Windows/Cubase, the strings alone eat 25GB of RAM, and that's with no additional microphone loaded.


----------



## VinRice

Fleer said:


> Am I the only one liking the graphics of Spitfire’s GUI?
> It’s made by UsTwo, the developers of stunningly beautiful games like Monument Valley:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ustwo Games
> 
> 
> We want our games to leave a lasting impression so we lean into real life experiences and interests outside of games to create experiences…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ustwogames.co.uk



The graphics aren't the problem.


----------



## Fleer

Now that’s a relief


----------



## Zero&One

zolhof said:


> All tracks ready to play? i.e. you load the template, click on the Violas track, bang some keys and beautiful music comes out of it? If so, that's some voodoo magic right there!
> 
> In Windows/Cubase, the strings alone eat 25GB of RAM, and that's with no additional microphone loaded.



Yeah, tested a ton of tracks and all played fine. I had a midi part per track to dummy load them
Mind you, beautiful music did not come out though!


----------



## CT

synkrotron said:


> Twinings Earl Grey here,



Here too... I'll pass on the sweetener though. Maybe a little lemon.


----------



## zolhof

James H said:


> Yeah, tested a ton of tracks and all played fine. I had a midi part per track to dummy load them
> Mind you, beautiful music did not come out though!



Thanks a lot man. Just to clarify, because my mind is kinda blown right now, you aren't enabling tracks as you go? The entire BBCSO loads under 20GB and all tracks in Logic are enabled/playable?

If that's really the case and we aren't misunderstanding each other, could someone from @Spitfire Team @SpitfireSupport kindly chime in and let us know if other DAWs/Windows users can expect the same optimization in the near future?


----------



## 5Lives

Any more opinions on how the library is _to use_. Feels like a lot of posts from folks that were complaining before the library came out...still complaining about the same things as some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy and then further complaining they can’t resell or get a refund (which has always been Spitfire policy). Not contributing anything particularly helpful in my opinion.

Seems like plenty of people can load this fine - so how is it to actually work with? The few demos folks have posted sound great! I can’t even tell how many dynamic layers they recorded...


----------



## Architekton

5Lives said:


> Any more opinions on how the library is _to use_. Feels like a lot of posts from folks that were complaining before the library came out...still complaining about the same things as some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy and then further complaining they can’t resell or get a refund (which has always been Spitfire policy). Not contributing anything particularly helpful in my opinion.
> 
> Seems like plenty of people can load this fine - so how is it to actually work with? The few demos folks have posted sound great! I can’t even tell how many dynamic layers they recorded...



Go watch Daniel James' videos and than decide is this something for you or not.


----------



## Zero&One

zolhof said:


> Thanks a lot man. Just to clarify, because my mind is kinda blown right now, you aren't enabling tracks as you go? The entire BBCSO loads under 20GB and all tracks in Logic are enabled/playable?
> 
> If that's really the case and we aren't misunderstanding each other, could someone from @Spitfire Team @SpitfireSupport kindly chime in and let us know if other DAWs/Windows users can expect the same optimization in the near future?



I just had another look and my PreLoad was set to 6000. So I set it back to the default 12288 so I wasn't reporting bogus results
Logic is now showing 23.81GB (the SA Player 11.5GB)


----------



## cqd

Is it fully loaded?..is every plugin gone green?


----------



## dzilizzi

5Lives said:


> Any more opinions on how the library is _to use_. Feels like a lot of posts from folks that were complaining before the library came out...still complaining about the same things as some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy and then further complaining they can’t resell or get a refund (which has always been Spitfire policy). Not contributing anything particularly helpful in my opinion.
> 
> Seems like plenty of people can load this fine - so how is it to actually work with? The few demos folks have posted sound great! I can’t even tell how many dynamic layers they recorded...


I'm guessing the quiet is either everyone finally playing with it or everyone's spouse/SO saying "enough! Spend time with your family!"


----------



## mcalis

Alex Fraser said:


> Unpopular opinion: I like the GUI.
> 
> Sure, if Paul T phoned me over a cup of tea to ask my opinion, I’d offer up a few tweaks. But generally I find it calming and unobtrusive. Not a huge sea of info at all times. YMMV etc.


That's alright, different strokes for different folks. I think, however, that it is entirely possible to keep the current look but make the whole thing a lot more usable. Think of the poor composer assistants who have to make huge templates and will get RSI from all the clicking they'll have to do in the current design


----------



## Nemoy

I am in need of a detailed orchestral percussion library. I had been considering the spitfire percussion joey burgess which has been around for many years now. Does the percussion in BBCSO have more articulations/techniques and more dynamic range than the ones in the original spitfire percussion? Any thoughts and comments are appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## Zero&One

cqd said:


> Is it fully loaded?..is every plugin gone green?



Yeah, again I tried numerous tracks and all play. Even opened several to jump between articulations thinking they might have not loaded. All was there as expected


----------



## ed buller

5Lives said:


> Any more opinions on how the library is _to use_. Feels like a lot of posts from folks that were complaining before the library came out...still complaining about the same things as some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy and then further complaining they can’t resell or get a refund (which has always been Spitfire policy). Not contributing anything particularly helpful in my opinion.
> 
> Seems like plenty of people can load this fine - so how is it to actually work with? The few demos folks have posted sound great! I can’t even tell how many dynamic layers they recorded...



It's great to work with...inspiring really....Sounds like an Orchestra. basic Levels and stereo placement are the best I have heard from a commercial library .

e


----------



## ed buller

Nemoy said:


> I am in need of a detailed orchestral percussion library. I had been considering the spitfire percussion joey burgess which has been around for many years now. Does the percussion in BBCSO have more articulations/techniques and more dynamic range than the ones in the original spitfire percussion? Any thoughts and comments are appreciated. Thanks.


the percussion is very basic

e


----------



## Zedcars

James H said:


> Yeah, again I tried numerous tracks and all play. Even opened several to jump between articulations thinking they might have not loaded. All was there as expected


Show off!


----------



## cqd

Get Joey Burgess..


----------



## Zero&One

5Lives said:


> Any more opinions on how the library is _to use_. Feels like a lot of posts from folks that were complaining before the library came out...still complaining about the same things as some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy and then further complaining they can’t resell or get a refund (which has always been Spitfire policy). Not contributing anything particularly helpful in my opinion.
> 
> Seems like plenty of people can load this fine - so how is it to actually work with? The few demos folks have posted sound great! I can’t even tell how many dynamic layers they recorded...



I've played with it on 2 things this weekend.
First impressions, I love it.
I went in like every other library and just wanted to make music, not concerning over technical details etc etc. It has been a joy and everything just works so well together. Normally I shy away from woods as they never sit right, so I just thought it was me or what I had wasn't great.
One part seemed too up front, so I opened the plug, dropped Mix 1 and used a couple of mics and it just blended in like butter.
I love a few OT Tools multis, the big stacc ones from MA3. Made the BBC version (less piano) and it sounded way better. To my ears like night/day.
The sound doesn't make me want to produce a certain genre either, like say OT or BHCT etc. Seems very generic in a good way and I think would accommodate many other libraries into the mix.

The GUI, I've not really noticed it to be fair. I get and understand peoples complaints and agree with most. But using this template I just click a track and play, go in to change an articulation/tighten and back out. If it wasn't for the comments I wouldn't have even mentioned it.

Very early days, but I'm very happy with it so far (with my limited experience that is). If they do a choir I'd be all over it.

Edit: I agree with ed about the percussion. One part I feel I might be adding some previous purchases to.


----------



## vdk-john

Nemoy said:


> I am in need of a detailed orchestral percussion library. I had been considering the spitfire percussion joey burgess which has been around for many years now. Does the percussion in BBCSO have more articulations/techniques and more dynamic range than the ones in the original spitfire percussion? Any thoughts and comments are appreciated. Thanks.



There is a video that compares them with the Spitfire Percussion, by Nick Murray:


----------



## Nemoy

Well I'd hoped the percussion in bbcso would be a major improvement in every way. Good to know people are still favoring the original percussion by joey.


----------



## vdk-john

Also, since I've got YT open, I also found a video of Kristopher Fisher demonstrating the discrepancy between the RAM allocated (system monitor) and the one displayed in the plugin (and his template takes 21 minutes to load )


----------



## NoamL

Nemoy said:


> Well I'd hoped the percussion in bbcso would be a major improvement in every way. Good to know people are still favoring the original percussion by joey.



Doesn't really seem like a fair comparison. BBCSO has tuned percussion as well - timpani, celeste, harp, xylophone, glockenspiel, marimba, crotales, tubular bells, and vibraphone. 

The celeste is pure wow, it's magical, I think it even sounds better than the CineSamples Harry Potter celeste. The timpani and the harp sounded 'aight as well. 

I think Christian's vision of an all-in-1 orchestra for collaboration is great, but.... if you guys ever start selling that celeste by itself...


----------



## ed buller

NoamL said:


> Doesn't really seem like a fair comparison. BBCSO has tuned percussion as well - timpani, celeste, harp, xylophone, glockenspiel, marimba, crotales, tubular bells, and vibraphone.
> 
> The celeste is pure wow, it's magical, I think it even sounds better than the CineSamples Harry Potter celeste. The timpani and the harp sounded 'aight as well.
> 
> I think Christian's vision of an all-in-1 orchestra for collaboration is great, but.... if you guys ever start selling that celeste by itself...


Actually..the timp IS amazing...best I have ever heard !......still love randy though

e


----------



## NoamL

What timpani options are you comparing it to Ed? Guess the other major option from SFA is the one in HZ Perc?


----------



## Virtuoso

Fleer said:


> Mariage Frères, bien sûr.


Mariage Frères Earl Grey French Blue. The best there is. 

Loading time on my late 2014 iMac seems MUCH faster than Daniel's experience. It only takes 4 seconds for the UI to pop up from cold and 10 seconds total before the default Violins 1 patch is fully loaded and playable. The library is on an external SSD in a Blackmagic Multidock, which are not particularly fast, topping out at 350MB/s.


----------



## Scalms

Nemoy said:


> I am in need of a detailed orchestral percussion library. I had been considering the spitfire percussion joey burgess which has been around for many years now. Does the percussion in BBCSO have more articulations/techniques and more dynamic range than the ones in the original spitfire percussion? Any thoughts and comments are appreciated. Thanks.


There's something about the acoustics in Air Studios which makes the Percussion sound incredible. I haven't heard a Percussion library sound as good, and no 3rd party reverb can replicate this sound, IMHO. You can't go wrong with it.


----------



## ed buller

NoamL said:


> What timpani options are you comparing it to Ed? Guess the other major option from SFA is the one in HZ Perc?


well Berlin for starters. And CINEPERC...this is just perfect. Nice and solid and the two different damped are a nice touch

e


----------



## ed buller

Scalms said:


> There's something about the acoustics in Air Studios which makes the Percussion sound incredible. I haven't heard a Percussion library sound as good, and no 3rd party reverb can replicate this sound, IMHO. You can't go wrong with it.


it has a huge Bottom end....chaos for other things but amazing for Perc

e


----------



## mistermister

Virtuoso said:


> Mariage Frères Earl Grey French Blue. The best there is.
> 
> Loading time on my late 2014 iMac seems MUCH faster than Daniel's experience. It only takes 4 seconds for the UI to pop up from cold and 10 seconds total before the default Violins 1 patch is fully loaded and playable. The library is on an external SSD in a Blackmagic Multidock, which are not particularly fast, topping out at 350MB/s.


I believe Daniel James was running the library from a USB external non-SSD drive, so probably not the best video to take loading times from.



Bluemount Score said:


> Question back to you, do you use an internal or external SSD? I have an i7 8700k and an external SSD. Loading times are fine now, still you have to be a little more patient than with Kontakt libraries about the same size. Playing some notes sometimes seem to speed up the process (which shouldn't be the case imo).


I'm on an i7 8700k, internal SSD (Just a SATA Crucial MX500). I have noticed that it's not quite 'load-and-you-can-play' like Kontakt, but it does not take long at all to load all the patches I've tried (less than 20s to be fully loaded).


----------



## Noeticus

Zedcars said:


> Maybe they should have asked you to help when they designed a plane's cockpit:



This is actually just one of the Mixing Rooms at Hans Zimmer's Remote Control Productions.

Ah hahhahahahhaha!


----------



## Zero&One

The snares are great too. The spill mics work nice on these


----------



## redlester

mistermister said:


> I believe Daniel James was running the library from a USB external non-SSD drive, so probably not the best video to take loading times from.



But as Daniel points out over and over, his Kontakt libraries all run very acceptably off the same hard disc, as Kontakt seems to work differently in the way it allocates samples to required notes while still loading. 

This is speculation but I would imagine based on what we’ve seen that the Spitfire player performs much better with SSD, and while Daniel’s points are all very valid it would be interesting to see a comparison on his own system with BBC running off a USB 3.1 SSD. If that were to be the case it would be an idea if Spitfire stated SSD as the recommended minimum spec.


----------



## cqd

It sucks off an ssd too..


----------



## Nemoy

vdk-john said:


> There is a video that compares them with the Spitfire Percussion, by Nick Murray:




In Nick's video here through his comparison, he mentions a few percussion instruments he liked better on the bbcso even though he said he'd try avoid saying which he liked better between the two libraries. His conclusion also seemed to be that the percussion recordings on bbcso is more updated and superior. Hmmm...well keep your comments and opinions about these two spitfire percussion sections coming. And yes, I'll watch more of the walk throughs between the two. Should I just flip a coin? Lol!


----------



## Noeticus

Buy both.


----------



## Nemoy

Noeticus said:


> Buy both.


That would be nice. I will just choose one I suppose. Many conclusions between 2 libraries usually end with "get both or buy them all"...lol.


----------



## Stevie

Daniel James said:


> The low energy in the tubular bells just sounds like low resonant mud, cutting it away made the tubular bell sound more clean and it fit in with other instruments much more cleanly IMO. The only problem with this is, had it been a Kontakt library I could just go into the patch and use and EQ to fix the mud then resave the patch so its gone for good. But as we have no EQ options I am stuck with removing that mud every time I want to use that patch. There were a few odd mix issues in there, again all of which I could have fixed myself to make my life easier in Kontakt. Again little annoying things that overtime will add up to a good amount of time just faffing around with the Spitfire GUI to get to where I need to be.



Well, I’m constantly adding EQ to instruments to eliminate rumble from high strings, cymbals, etc...
It‘s basically part of my daily work. People might either use a project template or track templates, so that the EQ can be saved with the instrument. I don’t really see that as a valid argument. 
And: I’d take Pro-Q over the Kontakt EQ anytime. For several reasons:
Pro-Q is better, more flexible and it shows a spectrum graph where you can clearly see what’s going on.


----------



## Daniel James

cqd said:


> It sucks off an ssd too..



Phrasing xD

-DJ


----------



## redlester

Going back to the RAM discussions, link here to Christian’s video from a few weeks back which shows the memory usage for the demo piece he had written for the library, useful in that it also displays the activity monitor. From 7’30” in.


----------



## Saigen

I'm impressed with the library's sound, it's simply a dream come true to have a library of this caliber at my fingertips. But I'm facing major issues with the sampler.
It seems like it loads everything into memory, and then out of memory.

For instance, I run Cubase 9.5 PRO, 32gb RAM on Windows 10 with the library on a NTFS Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB.
My template consists of all 55 instruments, resulting at a 27-28gb usage once it's all loaded up.

While it's loaded, I face a click or pop here and there...

But then this happens. It suddenly purges all samples while retaining a memory reservation at 85-90%.
Cubase has dropped from a gigabyte usage of 27-28 to 450 MEGABYTES!! and _every single instrument_ played is clicking and popping like crazy, making the library essentially unusable.

Simply put, and forgive my profane language, but what the actual fuck?

I'm hoping I will have the opportunity to swap this library for something Kontakt-oriented instead, this is preposterous to say the least for a library I was really looking forward to.


----------



## rsg22

Hobbyist/occasional freelancer here. Been scraping by with Miroslav 1 & 2 for years and have been looking forward to BBC SO. I was planning on purchasing before the pre-release discount ends, but I'm going to wait for BF or the holidays to see how some of the issues shake out.

I have a few questions in the meantime, hoping someone can help me out:

It sounds like some are having good results mixing in pieces from other libraries, which I'll need to do with percussion. To get a good mix with BBC SO is it necessary to use close mics only, then blend the libraries together with something like Spaces II?
Is it possible to map CC and play in lines with a wind controller VS a keyboard controller? I wasn't sure if the SA plugin was set up for this
Does SA have a good track record for providing timely fixes? (I don't own any of their products so have no experience to draw from)


----------



## cqd

Saigen said:


> Simply put, and forgive my profane language, but what the actual fuck?
> 
> I'm hoping I will have the opportunity to swap this library for something Kontakt-oriented instead, this is preposterous to say the least for a library I was really looking forward to.



Haha..


----------



## synthetic

Saigen said:


> But then this happens. It suddenly purges all samples while retaining a memory reservation at 85-90%.
> Cubase has dropped from a gigabyte usage of 27-28 to 450 MEGABYTES!! and _every single instrument_ played is clicking and popping like crazy, making the library essentially unusable.



Report it, I wouldn't give up just yet. Remember that this library is a few days old, and certainly their most popular to use their new sample player.


----------



## MaxOctane

Virtuoso said:


> Mariage Frères Earl Grey French Blue. The best there is.




Try Mariage Frères Earl Grey Limerance. I believe it’s their top-line earl grey. One of my favorite MF teas.

https://www.markethallfoods.com/products/earl-grey-limerance-by-mariage-freres


----------



## synthetic

If useful for any Cubase users, here are a bunch of expression maps for BBC: 









bbc_expmap_jlaity.zip


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com





A few notes: 
1. Keyswitches start at either C0 (Cubase C0  ) or C5
2. I followed their previous SSO standard of articulations where possible. Which are: C0 (or C5) legato, C#0 long, F0 Marcato, F#0 tenuto, G0 staccato. Not sure why they changed that. 
3. Strings are divided into Long and Short, just load two instances of the plug-in and unload what you need* 
4. No warranty, keep your complains to yourself, this is free.  

* I'm not sure this matters, once it's loaded in RAM does it matter if it's loaded in more than one instance?


----------



## Saigen

synthetic said:


> Report it, I wouldn't give up just yet. Remember that this library is a few days old, and certainly their most popular to use their new sample player.



I have sent them an email regarding the issue.
I do believe this ought to be tested prior to a release; already in Chris Henson's video the numbers made no sense.


----------



## Saigen

synthetic said:


> If useful for any Cubase users, here are a bunch of expression maps for BBC:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bbc_expmap_jlaity.zip
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few notes:
> 1. Keyswitches start at either C0 (Cubase C0  ) or C5
> 2. I followed their previous SSO standard of articulations where possible. Which are: C0 (or C5) legato, C#0 long, F0 Marcato, F#0 tenuto, G0 staccato. Not sure why they changed that.
> 3. Strings are divided into Long and Short, just load two instances of the plug-in and unload what you need*
> 4. No warranty, keep your complains to yourself, this is free.
> 
> * I'm not sure this matters, once it's loaded in RAM does it matter if it's loaded in more than one instance?



And here are ALL expression maps for BBCSO made by yours truly.
Ignore the untuned percussion ones.


----------



## synthetic

Yeah mine cover everything but the untuned percussion, I have them stretched across the keyboard.


----------



## SZK-Max

Macbook Pro 2018: Core i9 2.9Ghz, RAM 32GB, HDD 1TB
DAW: Cubase10





UI is Japanese language. 

----------------------
Used RAM 17.84GB
Cash 14.16GB
Swap 112.3MB
----------------------

Cubase 12.28GB


SF Player
----------------------
MEM 4.49GB
preload size 4000
buffer size 4000
----------------------


All instruments are Loaded, except for some of leaders and strings articulations (ex. con sort, sul pont, etc). Green lamp will light up in a few minutes, and I can play instrument without problems.

But I don't know what happens when I play the whole...yet

FYI


----------



## SyMTiK

Saigen said:


> I'm impressed with the library's sound, it's simply a dream come true to have a library of this caliber at my fingertips. But I'm facing major issues with the sampler.
> It seems like it loads everything into memory, and then out of memory.
> 
> For instance, I run Cubase 9.5 PRO, 32gb RAM on Windows 10 with the library on a NTFS Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB.
> My template consists of all 55 instruments, resulting at a 27-28gb usage once it's all loaded up.
> 
> While it's loaded, I face a click or pop here and there...
> 
> But then this happens. It suddenly purges all samples while retaining a memory reservation at 85-90%.
> Cubase has dropped from a gigabyte usage of 27-28 to 450 MEGABYTES!! and _every single instrument_ played is clicking and popping like crazy, making the library essentially unusable.
> 
> Simply put, and forgive my profane language, but what the actual fuck?
> 
> I'm hoping I will have the opportunity to swap this library for something Kontakt-oriented instead, this is preposterous to say the least for a library I was really looking forward to.


Are you on Windows 10 by any chance? Had a similar issue with HZ Strings on PC that rendered it unusable, never had the issue fixed. On my Mac I haven't experienced the same problem thankfully.


----------



## Mike Fox

After watching and listening to several walkthroughs/demos, and reading the overwhelming amount of complaints in this thread, I definitely will NOT be buying this library. It just doesn't live up to the hype, imo. 

"A New Standard in Orchestral Sampling". So far, I've yet to be convinced of anything that closely resembles such a bold statement. For those of you who purchased BBC, i hope you feel otherwise!

I think there are some incredibly beautiful patches in BBC, but also some borderline cringeworthy ones as well. No library is perfect, but for a library that fetches a 1k price tag, I'd expect just a bit more. 

I'm sure SF would love to have everyone on board, but BBC seems a bit too narrow in scope in order for it to be universally appealing.

I think Daniel James said it best though. It's a niche library for those seeking a classical BBC sound, and it's too expensive to be a beginner library. Of course, YMMV, but Daniel also brought up a very good point: at least with Kontakt, you have 3rd party options. This isn't a direct downfall of BBC, but rather SF's exclusive player. 

My gut instinct is that if the SF and BBC names weren't attached to this library, it would probably be overlooked, especially with it's current price tag. Brand names and expensive marketing go a long way though. I mean, can you really tell that, 

"for the first time, we have captured a full orchestra: players who have developed a precise musical affinity, rehearsing and performing some of the most challenging orchestral works together, week in, week out, to create a truly cohesive sound"? 

Kudos to you if your ears can detect that, but I certainly don't hear it, as it just sounds like another SF lib to me, but recorded in a different place. 

I think if you LOVE the sound of this library, or need it to collaborate with other composers who also have the library, then it might just be worth it. Neither of those apply to me, so it's a definite pass.

Regardless of my opinion, I wish the very best of luck to those who purchased BBC. I certainly hope you got your money's worth, and that you will get much use out of the library for years to come! 

Cheers


----------



## Zero&One

Saigen said:


> I have sent them an email regarding the issue.
> I do believe this ought to be tested prior to a release; already in Chris Henson's video the numbers made no sense.



Did you raise a support ticket on the website? If not then do so, as there defo seems to be a common theme with Windows version here.
Hope you all get it sorted soon.


----------



## Zero&One

@Mike Fox I think when you use it there is a different feeling of cohesion. It's weird. Maybe it's a marketing plant deep in my brain? I dunno, but for me it certainly pieces together very well and easy.

I think a fair run if/when DJ's loading issue are sorted, would be for him to produce a piece with it on stream. As just playing patches is... well like every other library that gets reviewed. Someone playing lots of patches without context of other instruments.


----------



## Saigen

SyMTiK said:


> Are you on Windows 10 by any chance? Had a similar issue with HZ Strings on PC that rendered it unusable, never had the issue fixed. On my Mac I haven't experienced the same problem thankfully.



I am on Windows 10, yes.
Wow, really? Holy crap. By virtue of the fact that you had to change systems in order to make it work seems awful man.

I don't wanna have to change my OS to compose.



James H said:


> Did you raise a support ticket on the website? If not then do so, as there defo seems to be a common theme with Windows version here.
> Hope you all get it sorted soon.



I did raise one, yeah. Thank you James


----------



## Mike Fox

James H said:


> @Mike Fox I think when you use it there is a different feeling of cohesion. It's weird. Maybe it's a marketing plant deep in my brain? I dunno, but for me it certainly pieces together very well and easy.
> 
> I think a fair run if/when DJ's loading issue are sorted, would be for him to produce a piece with it on stream. As just playing patches is... well like every other library that gets reviewed. Someone playing lots of patches without context of other instruments.


100% 

Observing demos/walkthroughs of any given library is very different from test driving it yourself, and my current feelings towards BBC could be adjusted after doing just that.


----------



## cqd

I dunno..it just feels like they looked at everything and said 'where can we cut corners?'.. like, what good are 20 mics if you cant load more than one without 128 gig of ram..the horn shorts are crap..the releases are weird on everything too.. the strings can sound nice, but can sound awfully synthy too, with weird releases..the brass have 2 velocity layers..the winds are nice, alright, but again,..ah, I dunno..at this point I'm sick of giving out about it..

In a few months time, when the cognitive bias wears off I don't know how it will be viewed..

If they sorted out the memory issues, the player, the obvious sampling mistakes, and added velocity layers it might be salvageable, but I dunno..


----------



## Alex Fraser

James H said:


> As just playing patches is... well like every other library that gets reviewed. Someone playing lots of patches without context of other instruments.


Exactly this James. That first run through post release is always the worst, listening to naked patches whilst battling with buyers remorse. It’s when you hear all the flaws. It’s such a pity that loads of folks use that as a jumping off point to hit the forums.

Once I start working with a new toy, as long as the sounds blend and work as expected, those snags melt away as I work out where the sweet spots are. I care less about the specifics as long as the music is coming together.

I see the BBCSO as a sophisticated reimagining of those orchestral romplers I used to buy. I’m not sure I agree with those who are boxing the library into the “Classical BBC Sound.” I hear an un-hyped sounding orchestra suitable for a whole ton of uses.

Actually, I hate it when the forum brain trust suggests “best practice use cases” for libraries. Example: I use Spitfire’s Studio Series mainly to write music for people to f**k to. I don’t recall seeing that example in the Spitfire marketing blurb. 😉


----------



## Kony

Alex Fraser said:


> Actually, I hate it when the forum brain trust suggests “best practice use cases” for libraries. Example: I use Spitfire’s Studio Series mainly to write music for people to f**k to. I don’t recall seeing that example in the Spitfire marketing blurb. 😉


Funny you should say that, it's how CH started out (porn music)


----------



## gonzalobasterra

If only this would be Kontakt compatible. 

SA sample engine is still far from being acceptable. Not everyone has HZ's computer. I still don't understand how they don't get this. I'd rather pay some extra $$ to get it running on a mature sample engine than getting a cheaper price but having an unusable library.

I was really looking forward to buy it but i'm definitely not doing it after reading all this. What a disappointment.


----------



## emasters

gonzalobasterra said:


> If only this would be Kontakt compatible.
> 
> SA sample engine is still far from being acceptable. Not everyone has HZ's computer. I still don't understand how they don't get this. I'd rather pay some extra $$ to get it running on a mature sample engine than getting a cheaper price but having an unusable library.
> 
> I was really looking forward to buy it but i'm definitely not doing it after reading all this. What a disappointment.



I struggle with this, as well. Had this been released in Kontakt, likely would have purchased it already. With the SA Player, I'm reluctant. And reading the feedback, more-so now. I wish SA would dump their player and support Kontakt for all products again. Clearly, this won't happen. But in my case, it would result in more business for them.


----------



## SyMTiK

Saigen said:


> I am on Windows 10, yes.
> Wow, really? Holy crap. By virtue of the fact that you had to change systems in order to make it work seems awful man.
> 
> I don't wanna have to change my OS to compose.
> 
> 
> 
> I did raise one, yeah. Thank you James


Damn, sad to see they have not resolved that issue. My PC's role in my setup has become that of a VEPro slave these days (switched to Mac because of school mainly, we are required to have a Mac, I annoyingly had built my PC just before going to Berklee and realizing they were going to make me buy one ), but I ended up putting HZ Strings on my Mac itself because of how it behaved on Windows. Hope they resolve this issue! I wish some of these major companies would put equal energy into support for both operating systems.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Anyone using BBCSO with a MacBook Pro yet? I’m wondering if a moderate template is going to be too much for 16GG Ram to handle. I’d be loading from SSD.


----------



## Mucusman

I was never going to buy it at 25% off, so I was safe from the pre-release blitz. I continue to read these posts and listen/watch others using the library. But one thing I can’t shake (at least not yet) is that most of the time listening to pieces composed with this library gives me the impression that I am actually listening to an _orchestra_ playing, and not a sample library. I begin to lose myself in the music. As a hobbyist, I can continue to wait, watch, and learn to see whether to take the plunge sometime in 2020.


----------



## synthetic

Here is my RAM usage. My template: 

* BBC minus VI2 shorts, Viola/Contrabass solo
* Mix 1 loaded only
* Quite a few other Kontakt instruments (several string ensembles, HZ Percussion Pro, bunch of other epic perc, 8dio piano, two 8dio choirs, HollywoodWinds, Sample Modeling brass, Soaring Strings, Adventure Strings...)
* Default settings in plug-in (65536 buffer, 12288 preload)

Comes out to 28GB RAM. Playing back fine. I have 128GB. So I don't question their initial estimate of RAM playback. Again, my instruments all loaded with three mic positions so check that, because it will triple your RAM load.


----------



## brenneisen

NoamL said:


> I agree. Remember, not _my _opinion



I know YOU know


----------



## Fleer

Wolfie2112 said:


> Anyone using BBCSO with a MacBook Pro yet? I’m wondering if a moderate template is going to be too much for 16GG Ram to handle. I’d be loading from SSD.


Taking this to the next page as I’m in a similar boat and would like to know too.


----------



## CT

Mucusman said:


> But one thing I can’t shake (at least not yet) is that most of the time listening to pieces composed with this library gives me the impression that I am actually listening to an _orchestra_ playing, and not a sample library.



Same here! This is one of the biggest draws for me.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Fleer said:


> Am I the only one liking the graphics of Spitfire’s GUI?
> It’s made by UsTwo, the developers of stunningly beautiful games like Monument Valley:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ustwo Games
> 
> 
> We want our games to leave a lasting impression so we lean into real life experiences and interests outside of games to create experiences…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ustwogames.co.uk



Nope


----------



## 5Lives

Many people complained when Play first came out - for years and years. And still do, but EW has held steadfast. I imagine only because the business benefits must be immense in terms of not paying Kontakt fees (and maybe for privacy reasons). I would imagine Spitfire will be much the same.


----------



## dzilizzi

The other thing to think about, and I think OT is looking at this also, if you control your own player, you ca do things like subscriptions, demos, and partial libraries much easier. I don't know if Spitfire has this plan for the future, but maybe they do. 

And it took 5 versions before EW's player really worked well. So growing pains are ahead.


----------



## lucor

I'd be more okay with Spitfire using their own player, if in turn they at least allowed reselling and refunds. I can kind of understand why most developers don't allow it on Kontakt, since there is no way of making sure people don't just keep using it after refunding it, but when you have your own player it's completely inexcusable IMO.

Also I agree about the UI, it's very pretty but from a functional standpoint it's just bad. Way to much clicking around. I think the best compromise would really be an "advanced" toggle, that switches between the current UI and one that has everything on one page, with no clicking and page switching needed.


----------



## IvanP

ed buller said:


> It's great to work with...inspiring really....Sounds like an Orchestra. basic Levels and stereo placement are the best I have heard from a commercial library .
> 
> e




Absolutely agree

Balance and timbre is also stunning. There are some release and volume issues to be handled, but I’m sure these will be sorted out in time (I agree, too, on the missing dynamic layers on some instruments)

Library plays back fine from USB SSD. I’m also on 128 Gig RAM and on MAC.
Haven’t fully tested with a full blown orchestral piece, but I’m really, really liking what I Hear.

I understand some of the complaints, the library needs to be worked out in terms of writing with good Orchestration. It’s not an out of the box symphobia multi.

In order to benefit from the good tonal balance, one needs to write properly balanced for it too.

Another way to think of it would be as an orchestration tool as well: It’s as close to a real orchestra in terms of balance as it can be .


----------



## ed buller

as too releases ...set all of them to "timed"...........makes a huge difference

e


----------



## gpax

IvanP said:


> Absolutely agree
> 
> Balance timbre is also stunning. There are some release and volume issues to be handled, but I’m sure these will be sorted out in time (also miss some dynamic layers on some instruments)
> 
> Library plays back fine from USB SSD. I’m also on 128 RAM.
> Haven’t fully tested with a full blown orchestral piece, but I’m really, really liking what I Hear.
> 
> I understand some of the complaints, the library needs to be worked out in terms of writing with good Orchestration. It’s not an out of the box symphobia multi.
> 
> In order to benefit from the good tonal balance, one needs to write properly balanced for it too.
> 
> Another way to think of it would be as an orchestration tool as well: It’s as close to as real orquestra as it can be in terms of balance.


At one point today, auditioning everything (and I must be fortunate as my system handled the full template without breaking a sweat), I felt myself visualizing the seating while standing there - not that other (all too familiar) sense of hovering 2.1 seconds above in a wash of sound. The perspective and balance here absolutely offset my short list of gripes, I have to say.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Saigen said:


> I'm impressed with the library's sound, it's simply a dream come true to have a library of this caliber at my fingertips. But I'm facing major issues with the sampler.
> It seems like it loads everything into memory, and then out of memory.
> 
> For instance, I run Cubase 9.5 PRO, 32gb RAM on Windows 10 with the library on a NTFS Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB.
> My template consists of all 55 instruments, resulting at a 27-28gb usage once it's all loaded up.
> 
> While it's loaded, I face a click or pop here and there...
> 
> But then this happens. It suddenly purges all samples while retaining a memory reservation at 85-90%.
> Cubase has dropped from a gigabyte usage of 27-28 to 450 MEGABYTES!! and _every single instrument_ played is clicking and popping like crazy, making the library essentially unusable.
> 
> Simply put, and forgive my profane language, but what the actual fuck?
> 
> I'm hoping I will have the opportunity to swap this library for something Kontakt-oriented instead, this is preposterous to say the least for a library I was really looking forward to.


To me, this sounds like a bug. BBCSO is still out for just a few days, I see your argument, but if you like it overall, keep in mind stuff like this might definitely be fixed.
EDIT: Just noticed somebody was faster than me again


----------



## christianhenson

Hi there all, thanks for all your positive responses and sorry for server meltdown, demand was unprecedented even by Black Friday standards.

A big heads up on me which I'll be fixing in future updates / templates are that vibrato can load senza as default which will give you lovely cool tense sounds but not the luxurious sound of the symphony as you would imagine so make sure you have a controller for this or click to it via your mouse. I'll be uploading a more recent template soon alongside the mega mother of all templates, the one track per artic, see if I can break my iMac Pro.

In the intertim here is my template video (click through for links) and.... excited to say this. an AWESOME cubase template (again click through) by the very talented Alex Watson, with expression maps and everything!





...and if you want us to promote stuff that you're doing with BBCSO please use the handle #oneorchestra

Much love.

C. x


----------



## synkrotron

interesting...


----------



## staypuft

christianhenson said:


> Hi there all, thanks for all your positive responses and sorry for server meltdown, demand was unprecedented even by Black Friday standards.
> 
> A big heads up on me which I'll be fixing in future updates / templates are that vibrato can load senza as default which will give you lovely cool tense sounds but not the luxurious sound of the symphony as you would imagine so make sure you have a controller for this or click to it via your mouse. I'll be uploading a more recent template soon alongside the mega mother of all templates, the one track per artic, see if I can break my iMac Pro.
> 
> In the intertim here is my template video (click through for links) and.... excited to say this. an AWESOME cubase template (again click through) by the very talented Alex Watson, with expression maps and everything!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and if you want us to promote stuff that you're doing with BBCSO please use the handle #oneorchestra
> 
> Much love.
> 
> C. x




We can make our own templates. You should make your top priority to fix the Windows VST. I've sent countless bug reports since Thursday and didn't receive a single reply. Sorry but no love from me today. I'm a very disappointed costumer.


----------



## redlester

ed buller said:


> as too releases ...set all of them to "timed"...........makes a huge difference
> 
> e



Good to know but surely if that’s the case they should be on by default? As was implied in Paul’s comment in the woodwinds walkthrough.


----------



## synkrotron

staypuft said:


> What you hear is what you get



I obviously don't have the ear for this stuff because that sounded okay to me.

As does this:-



I'm not challenging what you are saying, just... saying...


----------



## redlester

Regarding the amount of issues people are having with various aspects, as with anything it’s generally true that those who are unhappy are more likely to make the fact known, for obvious reasons. When people are happy with something they tend to have no, or fewer, comments to make unless they are pressed for them. This is reflected very much in another forum I use dedicated to my football team of choice, when we don’t win the threads are miles longer and more emotional than when we win (which means there have been plenty long and emotional threads lately!).

Every one of the posts reporting problems is valid and concerning, but it may not reflect the experience of most. Or it might. Only Spitfire will know the balance between purchasers and support requests.


----------



## porrasm

Saigen said:


> I'm impressed with the library's sound, it's simply a dream come true to have a library of this caliber at my fingertips. But I'm facing major issues with the sampler.
> It seems like it loads everything into memory, and then out of memory.
> 
> For instance, I run Cubase 9.5 PRO, 32gb RAM on Windows 10 with the library on a NTFS Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB.
> My template consists of all 55 instruments, resulting at a 27-28gb usage once it's all loaded up.
> 
> While it's loaded, I face a click or pop here and there...
> 
> But then this happens. It suddenly purges all samples while retaining a memory reservation at 85-90%.
> Cubase has dropped from a gigabyte usage of 27-28 to 450 MEGABYTES!! and _every single instrument_ played is clicking and popping like crazy, making the library essentially unusable.
> 
> Simply put, and forgive my profane language, but what the actual fuck?
> 
> I'm hoping I will have the opportunity to swap this library for something Kontakt-oriented instead, this is preposterous to say the least for a library I was really looking forward to.


Are you using an HDD? I had this problem but fixing to an SSD did the trick for me.


----------



## synkrotron

redlester said:


> Regarding the amount of issues people are having with various aspects, as with anything it’s generally true that those who are unhappy are more likely to make the fact known, for obvious reasons.



True.



redlester said:


> Every one of the posts reporting problems is valid and concerning, but it may not reflect the experience of most. Or it might. Only Spitfire will know the balance between purchasers and support requests.



Also true.

But for people sitting on the fence it is, in my opinion, disturbing.

Plus, with the amount of negative stuff here I was hoping that some of the guys who are reading this and are having positive experiences would throw in a few words here, and some examples.




I am almost tempted to jump of the fence and plummet into the depths just to see for myself... Almost...


----------



## chocobitz825

staypuft said:


> The player seems to have a life of its own. I've never experienced anything quite like it. Are you on Mac or Windows? My MacBook has no issues but my Windows desktop is a mess:: abysmal loading times, random memory leaks and crashes. I had the piccolo once load forever... it kept going and going until my PC froze. Brand new rig, takes everything I throw at it with ease. Until now.




im on a mac. I knew from experience with HZS that this player would be problematic. It'd be great if it was doing something that couldnt be done in Kontakt, but for what its doing, its a bit of a let down...especially since you cant build up multi


----------



## Saxer

staypuft said:


> The player seems to have a life of its own. I've never experienced anything quite like it. Are you on Mac or Windows? My MacBook has no issues but my Windows desktop is a mess:: abysmal loading times, random memory leaks and crashes. I had the piccolo once load forever... it kept going and going until my PC froze. Brand new rig, takes everything I throw at it with ease. Until now.


Maybe some hidden CC's moving the mixer fader in the plugin?


----------



## ERIC VALETTE

Like some here, I'm currently experiencing serious memory management issues with the BBCSO plug-in (my system: PC core I7 5930k, 64 GB RAM, fast internal SSD). Once the plug in loaded in Cubase pro 10 (about 40 instances, for full orchestra works), it consumes about 30 GB of memory at launch, but increases continuously until consuming all of my 64 GB which systematically leads to a freeze or a system crash and even with two or even only one activated microphone per instance...!!!

The product is unusable for me at the moment. Even a "simple" solo flute patch can take up to 7 or 8 GB of memory with only 2 microphones activated... I had never seen this before with Kontakt, Play or the best service engine!

I also have a ticket waiting at Spitfire support... I hope an update will fix it very quickly... Apart from that, I think there is a big potential for this library which I really like the overall sound!

EDIT : loading times are a nightmare too!


----------



## SpitfireSupport

ERIC VALETTE said:


> Like some here, I'm currently experiencing serious memory management issues with the BBCSO plug-in (my system: PC core I7 5930k, 64 GB RAM, fast internal SSD). Once the plug in loaded in Cubase pro 10 (about 40 instances, for full orchestra works), it consumes about 30 GB of memory at launch, but increases continuously until consuming all of my 64 GB which systematically leads to a freeze or a system crash and even with two or even only one activated microphone per instance...!!!
> 
> The product is unusable for me at the moment. Even a "simple" solo flute patch can take up to 7 or 8 GB of memory with only 2 microphones activated... I had never seen this before with Kontakt, Play or the best service engine!
> 
> I also have a ticket waiting at Spitfire support... I hope an update will fix it very quickly... Apart from that, I think there is a big potential for this library which I really like the overall sound!
> 
> EDIT : loading times are a nightmare too!



Thanks everyone, we'll get to all those support tickets, please bear with us.


----------



## Patrick.K

Nemoy said:


> I am in need of a detailed orchestral percussion library. I had been considering the spitfire percussion joey burgess which has been around for many years now. Does the percussion in BBCSO have more articulations/techniques and more dynamic range than the ones in the original spitfire percussion? Any thoughts and comments are appreciated. Thanks.


I bought the percussion of Joby Burgess a few months ago, this is the only product SA that I have.I find that the interface is not very user friendly or very convenient to use, but the sounds are really excellent ... There is really all the percussion of the orchestra, but I still paid 279 Euros ($ 300) promo, which is quite expensive. 
Currently the price of Joby Burgess percussions is 500 $ !


----------



## porrasm

ERIC VALETTE said:


> Like some here, I'm currently experiencing serious memory management issues with the BBCSO plug-in (my system: PC core I7 5930k, 64 GB RAM, fast internal SSD). Once the plug in loaded in Cubase pro 10 (about 40 instances, for full orchestra works), it consumes about 30 GB of memory at launch, but increases continuously until consuming all of my 64 GB which systematically leads to a freeze or a system crash and even with two or even only one activated microphone per instance...!!!
> 
> The product is unusable for me at the moment. Even a "simple" solo flute patch can take up to 7 or 8 GB of memory with only 2 microphones activated... I had never seen this before with Kontakt, Play or the best service engine!
> 
> I also have a ticket waiting at Spitfire support... I hope an update will fix it very quickly... Apart from that, I think there is a big potential for this library which I really like the overall sound!
> 
> EDIT : loading times are a nightmare too!


Have you tried to lower the buffer settings? I managed all instruments with 75% of articulations enabled with 16gb of RAM. I have the settings at 4000 and the other one at 14000. This only helps if you have an SSD.


----------



## AndyP

Mike Fox said:


> "A New Standard in Orchestral Sampling". So far, I've yet to be convinced of anything that closely resembles such a bold statement. For those of you who purchased BBC, i hope you feel otherwise!


I don't see BBCSO as a new standard. There are too many limitations on the part of the Spitfire player and the possibilities to form a sound. The usability is not a revolution either.

The strings are very good, and I would also buy them as a single section. The legato performance patches are great.

The intro price is fair and comes closer to what I consider the library worth than 1000$. I wouldn't buy brass, percussion rather not. Woodwinds ... with VSL in hindquarters also not.

With EWHO I am just as fast at my goal when it comes to composing ... but not mixing. 

I think SA should think about the player and how to improve usability. Style is less important than function.
It's nice to select 2 arcs by mouse click and option. But then why spread arcs over several pages? Why doesn't the feature work with keyswitches?

No envelope adjustable, selecting the dynamic curve is nice, but I don't like the default settings in any case.

So there is light and shadow, and also here I will find a way to use the library sensibly.

Revolution, nope. Another library with a nice sound, yep.

If you already have a good, complete orchestral library and don't want to have the sound in particular, you don't really need BBCSO in my opinion.


----------



## al_net77

AndyP said:


> It's nice to select 2 arcs by mouse click and option. But then why spread arcs over several pages? Why doesn't the feature work with keyswitches?



This.


----------



## AndyP

staypuft said:


> The string legato is unreliable and clunky in places, and the portamento is either full on or off, unlike CSS where you can control it's velocity. The CC1 dynamics on most instruments is clunky. It's soft, then loud, no smooth transition.


That drove me crazy yesterday, too!


----------



## Patrick.K

cqd said:


> Get Joey Burgess..


It's not Joey but Joby  But very expansive currently more than 500 $ !.


----------



## redlester

Have just got round to reading the review in the latest Sound on Sound, which is overwhelmingly positive and very much at odds with a lot of the issues people are mentioning, especially in respect to the brass.

It's notable that the only major criticism in the review is over the GUI which the reviewer really doesn't like, but more for usability rather than for any technical problems with it. On that subject there is nothing about any problems with RAM or loading times. But the reviewer's hardware specification is not listed, nor does it state which DAW was used.

I've asked the question on their forum to try and find out.


----------



## Simon Ravn

I am so glad I didn't pre-order. The hype almost got to me, but I resisted. I might pick it up at a later sale, but what I hear now in walkthroughs and demos is worse than what I already have in pretty much every respect.


----------



## Patrick.K

ed buller said:


> well Berlin for starters. And CINEPERC...this is just perfect. Nice and solid and the two different damped are a nice touch


Cinesample products have good reputation and CineBrass Pro in particular are exellents.
Les percussions must be of good quality also I suppose, but the interface is not very intuitive I think, difficult to program and the design and the colors are ugly, But that's just my opinion


----------



## Sovereign

Simon Ravn said:


> I am so glad I didn't pre-order. The hype almost got to me, but I resisted. I might pick it up at a later sale, but what I hear now in walkthroughs and demos is worse than what I already have in pretty much every respect.


To my shock it appears that the violins, violas and cellos legatos only have 2[!!] dynamic layers (I'm guessing p and f). The lack of dynamic layers is a serious problem throughout the library.


----------



## Consona

cqd said:


> @Consona ..I feel that was quite on topic actually..


After watching DJ's first look, I'd say so.


----------



## Grilled Cheese

Simon Ravn said:


> I am so glad I didn't pre-order. The hype almost got to me, but I resisted.


Same here. My method for reducing temptation was to spend some time playing with CSS, enjoying that clear interface, sonic consistency, and broad dynamic range (especially its lovely pp layers). 

The BBC sound is still quite alluring though. Maybe when it’s a bit more mature...


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Overall i think its a great library - some lovely legato and all sits together...but , there is still work to be done - especially with the brass, and some other instruments. Hopefully spitfire will continue to fix the bugs and add more features as it has alot of potential .


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Just to remind, any user looking for more RAM , i am selling my 128gb over in classified, if that helps anyone .


----------



## Erik

ERIC VALETTE said:


> Like some here, I'm currently experiencing serious memory management issues with the BBCSO plug-in (my system: PC core I7 5930k, 64 GB RAM, fast internal SSD). Once the plug in loaded in Cubase pro 10 (about 40 instances, for full orchestra works), it consumes about 30 GB of memory at launch, but increases continuously until consuming all of my 64 GB which systematically leads to a freeze or a system crash and even with two or even only one activated microphone per instance...!!!
> 
> The product is unusable for me at the moment. Even a "simple" solo flute patch can take up to 7 or 8 GB of memory with only 2 microphones activated... I had never seen this before with Kontakt, Play or the best service engine!
> 
> I also have a ticket waiting at Spitfire support... I hope an update will fix it very quickly... Apart from that, I think there is a big potential for this library which I really like the overall sound!
> 
> EDIT : loading times are a nightmare too!



Same here, PC, Win10, 128 Gb RAM, Intel i9-7920X, CPU 2.90 Ghz. This is a disaster, no matter what settings I used in the buffer etc.. Is is impossible to have a simple chamber orchestra doing a job.

Is this supoosed to be a professional product? 
I have never had this in my life before. What a shame.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

I have an i9 9940x with 256 gb of Ram - Have loaded a modified template that was linked here - using about 17gb of RAM , 20% CPU - Please see image. All 51 instruments .





That is with Just Mix mic 1 - though i have Close mics mapped to a CC , so i will try using them and see if there is a problem . 

So far, the RAM use has not increased, it takes about 5 mins for project to load. Its really odd that most patches say "7gb" of Ram use, but they cant be possibly using that are the overall load is only 17gb.

Will keep an eye on usage, and update


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Erik said:


> Same here, PC, Win10, 128 Gb RAM, Intel i9-7920X, CPU 2.90 Ghz. This is a disaster, no matter what settings I used in the buffer etc.. Is is impossible to have a simple chamber orchestra doing a job.
> 
> Is this supoosed to be a professional product?
> I have never had this in my life before. What a shame.



Do please contact us at spitfireaudio.com/support if you haven't already


----------



## ERIC VALETTE

porrasm said:


> Have you tried to lower the buffer settings? I managed all instruments with 75% of articulations enabled with 16gb of RAM. I have the settings at 4000 and the other one at 14000. This only helps if you have an SSD.


I already tried yesterday indeed. I set the "preload size" and the"stream buffer size" option on 6000, then 3000, 2000 and even 1000, the minimum, without success. I also had to adjust the buffer of my sound card to 2048 to be able to play at least 4 or 5 instruments simultaneously without too many freezes or drops in reading notes ... beyond 5 instruments simultaneously, playing without artifacts becomes impossible... even when the total memory of the system is not fully consumed.
I also tried to remove all the articulations that I don't need often (maybe 25 %...).


Usually, my system runs an Afflatus Strings/CSS, CSB, SOW and many others VST template simultaneously very correctly.

Let's trust Spitfire's technical team to fix these issues as soon as possible


----------



## Henu

Paul Jelfs said:


> I have an i9 9940x with 256 gb of Ram


----------



## micrologus

I love the general sound of the orchestra, in particular the strings and the brass. 
But I see problems in the legato of some instruments. The volume is not homogeneous, some notes are too loud, other are too soft. The clarinet's release is too long. Listen to a) VSL solo clarinet, b) BBC solo clarinet, c) Spitfire Orchestra solo clarinet:




[edited: added c) Spitfire Orchestra clarinet]


----------



## Paul Jelfs

micrologus said:


> I love the general sound of the orchestra, in particular the strings and the brass.
> But I see problems in the legato of some instruments. The volume is not homogeneous, some notes are too loud, other are too soft. The clarinet's release is too long. Listen to a) VSL solo clarinet and b) BBC solo clarinet:



Have you tried changing the SHORT RELEASES option in Settings to TIMED OR UNTIMED? Does that make a difference?


----------



## Grilled Cheese

micrologus said:


> I love the general sound of the orchestra, in particular the strings and the brass.
> But I see problems in the legato of some instruments. The volume is not homogeneous, some notes are too loud, other are too soft. The clarinet's release is too long. Listen to a) VSL solo clarinet and b) BBC solo clarinet:



Oh dear.


----------



## micrologus

Paul Jelfs said:


> Have you tried changing the SHORT RELEASES option in Settings to TIMED OR UNTIMED? Does that make a difference?



Thank you! I tried the two options (timed / untimed) but apparently nothing changes.


----------



## AndyP

Paul Jelfs said:


> Have you tried changing the SHORT RELEASES option in Settings to TIMED OR UNTIMED? Does that make a difference?


This is more like an on/ off function. It would be better if we had the choice to adjust the release ourselves.


----------



## mistermister

AndyP said:


> This is more like an on/ off function. It would be better if we had the choice to adjust the release ourselves.


Not really a concept of 'ADSR' in wet libraries like SF make. You're stuck with the recorded release which is why it's probably a switch.


----------



## micrologus

But in the *Spitfire Orchestra* (c) it sounds correct:


----------



## Tatu

Do Spitfire plugins (HZ Strings, BBC, Labs) share code, or are they all self contained applications/plugins?


----------



## xanderscores

I find this thread highly interesting. I've been looking forward to purchasing the BBCSO for months and even upgraded my computer hardware for that. After reading of bugs and disappointed users I'm considering spending my money on Berlin series.


----------



## paulthomson

Hi Micrologus, 

Just a note from me, unlike the Flute and Oboe for example, the Clarinet does not yet have the short notes and fast legato playing built into the patch - it will do, (I'm working on a few of these patches for an update) and the part you played would really benefit from that extended programming.

The Timed release functionality you've mentioned is the control for Marcatos (for example, or Tenutos) and controls whether its one shot or just the length of time you hold the key down.

All the best! 

Paul


----------



## Barbe Rouge

xanderscores said:


> I find this thread highly interesting. I've been looking forward to purchasing the BBCSO for months and even upgraded my computer hardware for that. After reading of bugs and disappointed users I'm considering spending my money on Berlin series.



Same here. Waiting to see if another miracle happens at BF 🥳 
I'll still keep an eye on BBC though.


----------



## redlester

Paul Jelfs said:


> So far, the RAM use has not increased, it takes about 5 mins for project to load. Its really odd that most patches say "7gb" of Ram use, but they cant be possibly using that are the overall load is only 17gb.



The RAM usage displayed in the plugin is the total for all instances of the plugin in the project I believe, not per instance. Hence, in Christian's Logic template, it displays 11.5GB for every instance when the entire orchestra is turned on.


----------



## cqd

So we should probably be waiting for updates should we?..I haven't opened a ticket yet..I was considering complaining to the BBC too.. Might ask them if there's another series of Line of duty on the way while I'm at it..


----------



## MarcHedenberg

cqd said:


> So we should probably be waiting for updates should we?..I haven't opened a ticket yet..I was considering complaining to the BBC too.. Might ask them if there's another series of Line of duty on the way while I'm at it..



Might be a bit overkill.


----------



## cqd

MarcHedenberg said:


> Might be a bit overkill.



Asking about Line of duty?


----------



## MarcHedenberg

cqd said:


> Asking about Line of duty?



Of course. They've got their hands full with angry emails about the pointlessness of the license fee today.


----------



## zimm83

chocobitz825 said:


> im on a mac. I knew from experience with HZS that this player would be problematic. It'd be great if it was doing something that couldnt be done in Kontakt, but for what its doing, its a bit of a let down...especially since you cant build up multi


That's it. 
STOP leaving kontakt. Spitfire and Orchestral Tools.........Man ....!!!


----------



## micrologus

paulthomson said:


> Hi Micrologus,
> 
> Just a note from me, unlike the Flute and Oboe for example, the Clarinet does not yet have the short notes and fast legato playing built into the patch - it will do, (I'm working on a few of these patches for an update) and the part you played would really benefit from that extended programming.
> 
> The Timed release functionality you've mentioned is the control for Marcatos (for example, or Tenutos) and controls whether its one shot or just the length of time you hold the key down.
> 
> All the best!
> 
> Paul



Thank you Paul, it's very interesting what you wrote. I think this library has a great potential after fixing some little details.


----------



## paulthomson

micrologus said:


> Thank you Paul, it's very interesting what you wrote. I think this library has a great potential after fixing some little details.



You are very welcome - yes there's lots of stuff on the way. 

Just on another note, and super quick as I want to get back to patch tweaking!! - someone mentioned doing HZ style ostinatos? I just whacked up the spiccato and did this, 3 mins flat so no tweaking, just quantised - you could make it tighter than this by increasing the 'Tightness' value in each patch.



All the best - please keep the feedback (good and bad!) coming, we are listening. And the fab support team are getting back to anyone with problems as fast as they can. 

Its weird that some PC users are fine, and some not - but we'll get to the bottom of it.

Paul


----------



## bricop

Is anyone having success on an i7 MacBook Pro 16GB? Struggling with constant drops outs.


----------



## iliketomusicmusic

Can I just say (as a newbie) thank you very much to everyone who's chipping in with sharing their experience. After much back and forth, I had actually given in to the hype, and purchased the SSD but then I saw some of the first reviews coming through on here, and I was able to cancel the order and get a refund.

It would be great to see a constructive response from SF that addresses the most pressing concerns and I hope that this promising library will become a work in progress and evolve into what it was setting out to do.


----------



## Cormast

Hi everyone,

For me, same issue as many. I can't use more than 4 or 5 instruments together without getting dropouts. I never had this issues with Orchestral Tools or Spitfire kontakt libraries before and I could use way more instruments at the same time. 

My computer : i7-6700k - 54G Ram - Buffers 2048 - Cubase 9 - Library on SSD 1To Nvme - Win 10

The sounds of the library is awsome, i hope Spitfire's team will find a solution to work it out


----------



## AllanH

Spitfire support seems on it. I got feedback yesterday (Sunday) on a ticket I submitted Saturday. Real-time programming on Windows is somewhat unpredictable, in my experience, especially if it involved extensive threading or multi-processing.


----------



## bricop

Wolfie2112 said:


> Anyone using BBCSO with a MacBook Pro yet? I’m wondering if a moderate template is going to be too much for 16GG Ram to handle. I’d be loading from SSD.


I'm using a Macbook Pro with 16GB memory but I think it's too early to say how it is going to run as there are so many bugs to be fixed. I was assured before buying that it would run no problem on my Macbook Pro but so far it's all just clicks and pops so it's no use at the moment. The sound and concept is amazing but feels like it was released too early before serious beta testing.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

bricop said:


> I'm using a Macbook Pro with 16GB memory but I think it's too early to say how it is going to run as there are so many bugs to be fixed. I was assured before buying that it would run no problem on my Macbook Pro but so far it's all just clicks and pops so it's no use at the moment. The sound and concept is amazing but feels like it was released too early before serious beta testing.



Hi there, if you're experiencing clicks and pops, that's not going to be "bugs" but the plugin not working well on your system. Can you contact spitfireaudio.com/support so that we can look into your specific situation? Thanks.


----------



## Bluemount Score

paulthomson said:


> All the best - please keep the feedback (good and bad!) coming, we are listening. And the fab support team are getting back to anyone with problems as fast as they can.


French Horn Dynamics!!!

Thank you Paul, I think we all can just appreciated that you and the Spitfire team care about our feedback!


----------



## Symfoniq

paulthomson said:


> Just a note from me, unlike the Flute and Oboe for example, the Clarinet does not yet have the short notes and fast legato playing built into the patch - it will do, (I'm working on a few of these patches for an update) and the part you played would really benefit from that extended programming.



Good to know! Seeing as there are numerous areas of this library that could use more polish, it'd be greatly appreciated if Spitfire Audio would announce somewhere what fixes and improvements are planned for a future update. Otherwise, it's impossible to be sure if some of these issues will ever be addressed, which will make some potential customers reluctant to pull the trigger.

With this library being under so much scrutiny, I'd greatly appreciate knowing what's "working as intended" and what's "definitely a bug/incomplete."


----------



## mikeh-375

Symfoniq said:


> Good to know! Seeing as there are numerous areas of this library that could use more polish, it'd be greatly appreciated if Spitfire Audio would* announce somewhere what fixes and improvements are planned for a future update. Otherwise, it's impossible to be sure if some of these issues will ever be addressed, which will make some potential customers reluctant to pull the trigger.*
> 
> With this library being under so much scrutiny, I'd greatly appreciate knowing what's "working as intended" and what's "definitely a bug/incomplete."



Bang on...


----------



## bricop

SpitfireSupport said:


> Hi there, if you're experiencing clicks and pops, that's not going to be "bugs" but the plugin not working well on your system. Can you contact spitfireaudio.com/support so that we can look into your specific situation? Thanks.


ticket sent


----------



## davidson

mikeh-375 said:


> Bang on...



This x 2. I'd also appreciate a list for other spitfire libraries, some of my tickets are over 2 years old with no resolve!


----------



## prodigalson

I have a strong suspicion that the long loading times and especially egregious RAM issues are somehow to do with how the player performs on Windows machines and other DAWs other than Logic. It seems like those who aren't experiencing issues are generally using Logic where those who are are often using Cubase or PT? Just a theory?

For example, watching DJ's video at the beginning the very first patch loading time was just not right. It was completely different to my experience in Logic. I believe he was streaming from a HDD but even so, I'm using an SSD via USB 3.0 and my patches load pretty quickly, as fast as Kontakt.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

prodigalson said:


> I have a strong suspicion that the long loading times and especially egregious RAM issues are somehow to do with how the player performs on Windows machines and other DAWs other than Logic. It seems like those who aren't experiencing issues are generally using Logic where those who are are often using Cubase or PT? Just a theory?
> 
> For example, watching DJ's video at the beginning the very first patch loading time was just not right. It was completely different to my experience in Logic. I believe he was streaming from a HDD but even so, I'm using an SSD via USB 3.0 and my patches load pretty quickly, as fast as Kontakt.



What are your computer specs?


----------



## prodigalson

iMac 2013 (i5 quad-core), 32GB RAM, MacOS Mojave. Logic Pro 10.4.6. Streaming from SSDs via Startech USB 3.0 dock. Not exactly a beast by today's standards.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

prodigalson said:


> iMac 2013 (i5 quad-core), 32GB RAM, MacOS Mojave. Logic Pro 10.4.6. Streaming from SSDs via Startech USB 3.0 dock. Not exactly a beast by today's standards.



Nice. If you're having success with that machine, that's a good sign.


----------



## 5Lives

DJ’s walkthrough is pretty great - I should evaluate my other libraries in such detail. Certainly points out a number of recording “issues” in terms of legato transitions, maximum dynamics, staccato sluggishness (though Paul’s demo was pretty bang on in comparison so not sure the difference there). Makes me want to wait until the spring 40% sale at the earliest, assuming they improve the sample content.


----------



## Mike Fox

mistermister said:


> Not really a concept of 'ADSR' in wet libraries like SF make. You're stuck with the recorded release which is why it's probably a switch.


Cinematic Strings 2, a fairly wet library, has the option to adjust the release yourself. I use it quite a bit with the spiccatos.

Also, with most Kontakt libs you can go under the hood and adjust the release.


----------



## redlester

Having a first proper play with it today, and one thing I've already noticed is the wealth of different sounds possible by judicious subtle mixing of the various mic options. I've seen and heard the criticisms about the number of mics over dynamic layers but I have to say I'm loving some of the sounds am getting and it's clear individual articulations can be tailored to sound very different within the mix by experimenting in this way.

Am using the Hybrid Logic template and only turning on what I need. No problems at all with RAM use or loading times. (So far!)

Have to say so far am not regretting for one second being an early adopter, just wish I didn't have to go to work tomorrow.


----------



## Saigen

porrasm said:


> Are you using an HDD? I had this problem but fixing to an SSD did the trick for me.


In my post it says I use an SSD - same one as they export.


----------



## robgb

Well, based on these reports, my rig could definitely not handle BBCSO. Hell, my DAW crashes whenever I try to remove a track with a multi of SStS. I have to disable the plugin before I can remove the track. That said, I love SStS. And I'm sure the kinks in BBCSO will eventually be worked out.


----------



## cqd

You'd think that, if they have any more paid offerings in this series anyway, they'll have to get the kinks ironed out sooner rather than later..

I for one wont be listening to any more spitfire hype anyway..I did on this occasion against my better judgement before the educational discount ran out..Christian had said back in April that it was going to be a game changer, when in reality, its another orchestral library..

I dont think I'm going to buy anything else Spitfire for a while..and I'd my eye on a couple of bits..


----------



## Noeticus

Spitfire Audio really should have had way more BETA TESTING done on the BBCSO before its release to the public because from what I see on this forum it was not at all ready for release to paying customers.

Beta Testers should get the software for free.


----------



## robgb

Mike Fox said:


> Also, with most Kontakt libs you can go under the hood and adjust the release.


One of the many reasons I prefer Kontakt instruments.


----------



## ERIC VALETTE

redlester said:


> Having a first proper play with it today, and one thing I've already noticed is the wealth of different sounds possible by judicious subtle mixing of the various mic options. I've seen and heard the criticisms about the number of mics over dynamic layers but I have to say I'm loving some of the sounds am getting and it's clear individual articulations can be tailored to sound very different within the mix by experimenting in this way.


I totally agree with that  This is really one of the biggest strength of this library!


----------



## MaxOctane

paulthomson said:


> Just on another note, and super quick as I want to get back to patch tweaking!! - someone mentioned doing HZ style ostinatos? I just whacked up the spiccato and did this, 3 mins flat so no tweaking, just quantised - you could make it tighter than this by increasing the 'Tightness' value in each patch.




Paul, this would be a great opportunity to share a Logic file, and put the collaboration idea to the test.


----------



## Erik

SpitfireSupport said:


> Do please contact us at spitfireaudio.com/support if you haven't already


I just did.


----------



## skythemusic

micrologus said:


> I love the general sound of the orchestra, in particular the strings and the brass.
> But I see problems in the legato of some instruments. The volume is not homogeneous, some notes are too loud, other are too soft. The clarinet's release is too long. Listen to a) VSL solo clarinet, b) BBC solo clarinet, c) Spitfire Orchestra solo clarinet:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [edited: added c) Spitfire Orchestra clarinet]





Geez, the VSL sounds radically better than either of those from Spitfire.


----------



## skythemusic

I'm glad I waited and I will not be buying this library, at least for some time. 

This seems similar to the debacle that is the Studio series, whose quality and usability is just so frustratingly inconsistent. I wish I hadn't bought all three pro versions of that as I still find myself wanting a main orchestral library. The only other one I have similar is BHCT. 

Spitfire doesn't seem to address major issues and they just move on to the next hyped product. This is especially troubling because they are moving away from Kontakt which at least is a format that we know works. As someone working in Studio One on a pc maybe these issues make sense given that they are all on Logic in Mac world. Personally I'll never go back to Mac or Logic.

I have far too much invested in Spitfire versus other developers, and that was a mistake. Hopefully someone will come out with something similar to the best of the tones of this library within the Kontakt format featuring more consistency in quality and functionality.


----------



## cqd

skythemusic said:


> Spitfire doesn't seem to address major issues and they just move on to the next hyped product.



If they do that on this occasion I'll be kicking walls..


----------



## AndyP

bricop said:


> I'm using a Macbook Pro with 16GB memory but I think it's too early to say how it is going to run as there are so many bugs to be fixed. I was assured before buying that it would run no problem on my Macbook Pro but so far it's all just clicks and pops so it's no use at the moment. The sound and concept is amazing but feels like it was released too early before serious beta testing.


Yesterday I played 12 instrument simultaneous tracks, 4 of which were legato strings, on my MacBook Pro with 16 GB. Without clicks.

But ... sometimes, when I then go into a track and e.g. want to play the legato strings individually, nothing works anymore and the CPU goes steep. Solo track.


----------



## Uiroo

After having trouble with EWC, where moving the library seemed to just break the library and loading times where troublesome if not broken, AND many problems with the wonderful LABS stuff i'll probably step away from Spitfire's own player. This thread kinda confirms my gut feeling.

I bought loads of libraries from spitfire and had no regrets yet, I want to keep it that way.

And maybe Spitfire will make it a truly better player, who knows. After all the East West's PLAY seems to have improved quite a bit over the years. 

With the little experience Ihave, programming for kontakt seems like a nightmare, there isn't even an undo function?! Feels very outdated, but seems to be solid.


----------



## mistermister

skythemusic said:


> Geez, the VSL sounds radically better than either of those from Spitfire.


Different tools, different methods:


Just a quick 20 second sketch. Could be much improved, but posted to make a point - anyone just copy pasting MIDI and workflow between libraries will make the best of libraries sound terrible, let alone average ones. Libraries like VSL are also much quicker to get a smooth sound with because you're running it through reverb.


----------



## Bluemount Score

mistermister said:


> anyone just copy pasting MIDI and workflow between libraries will make the best of libraries sound terrible, let alone average ones.


Definitely. Let alone the different ways how velocity and legato delay work across different libraries.


----------



## AndyP

skythemusic said:


> The only other one I have similar is BHCT.


Compared to BHCT I find BBCSo a little disappointing.
But I don't regret the purchase, especially since I assume that SA will at least fix the biggest bugs. And they describe it as a new beginning, odyssey, then hopefully they will improve and update it. If they do this consistently, BBCSO will become a great library (which it is not yet).


----------



## Noeticus

GAME CHANGING should perhaps mean that it is a great library... before it is released.


----------



## jbuhler

skythemusic said:


> I'm glad I waited and I will not be buying this library, at least for some time.
> 
> This seems similar to the debacle that is the Studio series, whose quality and usability is just so frustratingly inconsistent. I wish I hadn't bought all three pro versions of that as I still find myself wanting a main orchestral library. The only other one I have similar is BHCT.
> 
> Spitfire doesn't seem to address major issues and they just move on to the next hyped product. This is especially troubling because they are moving away from Kontakt which at least is a format that we know works. As someone working in Studio One on a pc maybe these issues make sense given that they are all on Logic in Mac world. Personally I'll never go back to Mac or Logic.
> 
> I have far too much invested in Spitfire versus other developers, and that was a mistake. Hopefully someone will come out with something similar to the best of the tones of this library within the Kontakt format featuring more consistency in quality and functionality.


This is simply not true. SF is continually updating their libraries. They may not do so as quickly as you like but it happens on a regular basis, and more regularly than many other companies.


----------



## prodigalson

Wolfie2112 said:


> Nice. If you're having success with that machine, that's a good sign.



I will clarify, I haven’t actually made any music with the library yet so have no idea at what point in the process my machine will beg for mercy. All I’m speaking to currently is loading times and general RAM load seem normal and reasonable...as of right now.


----------



## Zero&One

AndyP said:


> Compared to BHCT I find BBCSo a little disappointing.
> But I don't regret the purchase, especially since I assume that SA will at least fix the biggest bugs. And they describe it as a new beginning, odyssey, then hopefully they will improve and update it. If they do this consistently, BBCSO will become a great library (which it is not yet).



I think the library _is_ great. Sure there's things that need sorting, but it's still a great library.
The Plugin though, that's where the issues are for most. Many people agree with DJ that BBCSO in Kontakt would be perfect. So this shows it isn't the library that's the issue

Sadly, the library is getting most of the negative attention. I truly hope the Windows guys get sorted soon, as this library is a joy to use.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

jbuhler said:


> This is simply not true. SF is continually updating their libraries. They may not do so as quickly as you like but it happens on a regular basis, and more regularly than many other companies.




Especially after the update to the Solo Strings library. I don't own that because I'm already covered by CSSS for now, but that's a pretty neat improvement they made.


----------



## clisma

mistermister said:


> Different tools, different methods:
> 
> 
> Just a quick 20 second sketch. Could be much improved, but posted to make a point - anyone just copy pasting MIDI and workflow between libraries will make the best of libraries sound terrible, let alone average ones. Libraries like VSL are also much quicker to get a smooth sound with because you're running it through reverb.



Apologies in advance, I do not mean to denigrate your effort, but in no way does this sound useable. I fear the word "good" is completely out of reach. 

It is slowly but surely becoming apparent that, in its current state, this library can do a reasonably good job of performing slow, pastoral pieces that are neither pp nor ff, as evidenced by the partially successful example Mattia gave us earlier in the thread. This is a promising start, and that cohesive sound really does work, but overall much improvement seems to be needed.


----------



## mistermister

clisma said:


> Apologies in advance, I do not mean to denigrate your effort, but in no way does this sound useable. I fear the word "good" is completely out of reach.


No denigration taken. As I said, I literally spent more time putting it on Soundcloud than I did working on it. It was purely to show that the other example posted just isn't representative of how it sounds, because MIDI was shared between two very different plugins with very different workflows.

Clarinet wise, I believe @paulthomson has already said earlier today that the Clarinet does not yet have the 'fast playing' extended legato, which is coming in an update. Anything like the piece posted is a bit of a stretch to achieve with an all-rounder-generic legato until then.


----------



## José Herring

AndyP said:


> Compared to BHCT I find BBCSo a little disappointing.
> But I don't regret the purchase, especially since I assume that SA will at least fix the biggest bugs. And they describe it as a new beginning, odyssey, then hopefully they will improve and update it. If they do this consistently, BBCSO will become a great library (which it is not yet).


I'm so behind in my abbreviations. What is BHCT?


----------



## Andrew0568

RAM-wise I'm getting really good performance on my Macbook Pro 2.3 GHz i5 quad core with 16GB RAM. It's really helpful on a laptop to be able to purge unused articulations.


----------



## MisteR

josejherring said:


> I'm so behind in my abbreviations. What is BHCT?







__





Spitfire Audio — Bernard Herrmann Composer Toolkit







www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## MisteR

Also: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/glossary-of-vi-c-abbreviations.67167/


----------



## redlester

Fleer said:


> https://www.spitfireaudio.com/community/spitfire-audio-events/
> Any ideas?



Still none the wiser mate!


----------



## Bluemount Score

[


Andrew0568 said:


> RAM-wise I'm getting really good performance on my Macbook Pro 2.3 GHz i5 quad core with 16GB RAM. It's really helpful on a laptop to be able to purge unused articulations.



Simple tune but I really like it!
Is the choir from MA2?


----------



## gtrwll

Just loaded the piece I was working on yesterday, and it seems that it's stable at the moment. I have pretty much the basic orchestral instruments loaded with string leaders, mainly one articulation per instrument loaded and I use Mix1 mic, and RAM is sitting at 25GB. It's definitely too much, but at least I can compose something with it...hopefully these issues get sorted quickly, as it would be nice to try out different mics or articulations...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Andrew0568 said:


> RAM-wise I'm getting really good performance on my Macbook Pro 2.3 GHz i5 quad core with 16GB RAM. It's really helpful on a laptop to be able to purge unused articulations.




Nice piece! If were to add say, ten more tracks of strings and brass, would your system choke?


----------



## AndyP

josejherring said:


> I'm so behind in my abbreviations. What is BHCT?


Spitfire - Bernard Herrmann Composer Toolkit. THIS is a great library, even if it is a niche library. Well balanced, great sound, but the patches are sorted a little weird.


----------



## NoamL

skythemusic said:


> Hopefully someone will come out with something similar to the best of the tones of this library within the Kontakt format featuring more consistency in quality and functionality.



I don't think that'll ever happen; we are stuck with mix-and-matching. For example, this library has *true* con sordinos & *true* con sordino tremolos. If you compare those articulations to the EQ-"emulated" sordino in any other library (such as CSS which is otherwise my very favorite strings, or to the con sordino button in Hollywood Strings which is... not my favorite  ) there's a big difference. BBCSO's true con sordino sounds magical... so do the flautandos... and the sul ponts are appropriately nasty. All of this is only possible because they decided to put those beyond-the-basics articulations in their design doc, and it audibly pays off.

Meanwhile I listened to Daniel James playing the solo horn and a4 horns in BBCSO while playing along at home with the same instruments from CSB and there's _no way_ I'd ever use those horns compared to CSB. 🤷‍♂️

There will never be one library to rule them all. Whenever you buy a really big product that overlaps with stuff you already have, hopefully some of it is better than what you have but also you risk that some of it will not be as good as what you already use.


----------



## Andrew0568

Bluemount Score said:


> [
> 
> Simple tune but I really like it!
> Is the choir from MA2?



It's Jerry Goldsmith's theme from "Rudy"


No modulation as I was just clicking away on my laptop while my daughter watched LEGO Friends, but the flute sounds lovely!

Yup, Ark 2 choir


----------



## I like music

Bluemount Score said:


> Simple tune but I really like it!
> Is the choir from MA2?



You haven't heard or seen Rudy?! One of my all-time favourite scores. And there's a good chance you'll like it too!!! Watch it!!!


----------



## Andrew0568

Wolfie2112 said:


> Nice piece! If were to add say, ten more tracks of strings and brass, would your system choke?



No, I don't think so. Working with 16GB of RAM, I typically work by section and freeze as necessary. Previously I was using Berlin Woodwinds, but my system would crap out really quickly. 

I can load the whole BBCSO woodwind section, each instrument with 1 mic, 1 articulation, and I can play back all 14 instruments _simultaneously_ without my laptop exploding


----------



## Joel Ewers

Here's something I threw together:




My work is pretty messy, but I really dig this library!


----------



## Saigen

After meticulous testing, I've reached a conclusion.



This plugin reserves approximately 21-22gb RAM for the string section (counting in ensembles & solo instruments) alone.
If you're on 32gb RAM and load up the brass, percussion & woodwind section, you'd peak at about 65-70gb RAM in reserved memory or something like that.

Instead what the plugin does (or OS) is to purge it's own data while still retaining a 100% memory reservation.

Keep in mind, this is with the default mic position / mix and with the following audio settings:

Maximum Voices = 512
Preload Size = 1000 (default 12288)
Stream Buffer Size = 3000 (default 65536)
Master Tuning = 440
Maximum Pitch Voices = 1

Everything downseized for a better idea of how consuming it is in reality.

So once again, the numbers do not add up.
Loading in the string section alone (1st chair & ensembles) it reaches *7227 megabytes RAM* -
however, the *memory reservation is at 68% excluding the neccessary windows processes*.

My desktop PC has 32gb RAM installed and is running on Windows 10.

*If the numbers were to add up, then I'd have around 24GB RAM to spare.
But in actuality, due to the insane reservation, I only have 10GB RAM left.

I repeat, this is after loading up the following patches, default mic position, and all included articulations:*
01. Violins I
02. Violins II
03. Violas
04. Celli
05. Basses
06. Violins I Leader
07. Violins II Leader
08. Violas Leader
09. Celli Leader
10. Bass Leader


Jesus christ guys. What the hell is this monster?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Saigen said:


> After meticulous testing, I've reached a conclusion.
> 
> 
> 
> This plugin reserves approximately 21-22gb RAM for the string section (counting in ensembles & solo instruments) alone.
> If you're on 32gb RAM and load up the brass, percussion & woodwind section, you'd peak at about 65-70gb RAM in reserved memory or something like that.
> 
> Keep in mind, this is with the default mic position / mix and with the following audio settings:
> 
> Maximum Voices = 512
> Preload Size = 1000 (default 12288)
> Stream Buffer Size = 3000 (default 65536)
> Master Tuning = 440
> Maximum Pitch Voices = 1
> 
> Everything downseized for a better idea of how consuming it is in reality.
> 
> So once again, the numbers do not add up.
> Loading in the string section alone (1st chair & ensembles) it reaches *7227 megabytes RAM* -
> however, the *memory reservation is at 68% excluding the neccessary windows processes*.
> 
> My desktop PC has 32gb RAM installed and is running on Windows 10.
> 
> *If the numbers were to add up, then I'd have around 24GB RAM to spare.
> But in actuality, due to the insane reservation, I only have 10GB RAM left.
> 
> I repeat, this is after loading up the following patches, default mic position, and all included articulations:*
> 01. Violins I
> 02. Violins II
> 03. Violas
> 04. Celli
> 05. Basses
> 06. Violins I Leader
> 07. Violins II Leader
> 08. Violas Leader
> 09. Celli Leader
> 10. Bass Leader
> 
> 
> Jesus christ guys. What the hell is this monster?



Jeez! I'm now pretty certain that I'd be pissing into the wind with only 16GB. That is insane.


----------



## CT

Andrew0568 said:


> Macbook Pro 2.3 GHz i5 quad core with 16GB RAM



No problems, even with that CPU which is below the listed minimum requirements? Encouraging. Nice Goldsmith, by the way.


----------



## Alex Fraser

miket said:


> No problems, even with that CPU which is below the listed minimum requirements? Encouraging. Nice Goldsmith, by the way.


Should we members of the Low End Mac Club(™) raise our hopes then?


----------



## CT

Alex Fraser said:


> Should we members of the Low End Mac Club(™) raise our hopes then?



That is very much the question of the moment.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Alex Fraser said:


> Should we members of the Low End Mac Club(™) raise our hopes then?



I wouldn't, I chatted with support and they said it's best to hold off until things are sorted.


----------



## CT

Yeah, I'm definitely not committing until there are some developments with all this, but I'm optimistic.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

Joel Ewers said:


> Here's something I threw together:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My work is pretty messy, but I really dig this library!




Ah man, that sounds great! Nicely done. Definitely goes to show how good orchestration can help get the most out of the library.


----------



## Øivind

Just wanted to let people who bought this outside of the UK know, i just got a bill from FedEx for €207 in import taxes for my purchase of the BBSO SSD which cost €199 incl taxes/VAT.

I did contact Spitfire support regarding this when i first got a question from FedEx where i had to give them my purchase info (as i meantioned earlier in this thread). I did specifically point them towards that the package contained the SSD and the full price which included downloadable software should not be considered. But they obviously disregarded this info.

Spitfire support said everything was fine when they contacted FedEx.

I have contacted Spitfire support again now with this new information. It seems like the value for the package was not set to €159 (SSD value without Tax/VAT) but rather £794 (which is the price for BBCSO license and the SSD with EDU discount incl tax/VAT paid during checkout).

Paying way more in import tax than the item you bought is worth, is pretty silly.


----------



## MikeRolls

cqd said:


> You'd think that, if they have any more paid offerings in this series anyway, they'll have to get the kinks ironed out sooner rather than later..
> 
> I for one wont be listening to any more spitfire hype anyway..I did on this occasion against my better judgement before the educational discount ran out..Christian had said back in April that it was going to be a game changer, when in reality, its another orchestral library..
> 
> I dont think I'm going to buy anything else Spitfire for a while..and I'd my eye on a couple of bits..



Yes it's a massive disappointment. This was going to be my first major orchestral library, and thought it would be pretty much all I'd need, for a while anyway. After all that was the hype - no more mixing and matching libraries, one cohesive sound, etc. I'm so glad I didn't buy it in advance, although I did stupidly buy an SSD which I guess is useful to have anyway.

With expectations suitably lowered, I'm thinking it might still be worth it for the intro price, although I don't want to do anything until they've fixed these issues, and just hoping it's still at a reduced rate if/when that does happen.


----------



## Joel Ewers

MarcHedenberg said:


> Ah man, that sounds great! Nicely done. Definitely goes to show how good orchestration can help get the most out of the library.



Thanks for the kind words! This library sounds quite "raw" out of the box, but I think it has massive potential. The stereo placement of instruments is, in my limited experience, really impressive. The mics give you lots of options for shaping your sound.


----------



## Hadrondrift

MikeRolls said:


> although I did stupidly buy an SSD


That's never stupid.


----------



## AndyP

Wolfie2112 said:


> Jeez! I'm now pretty certain that I'd be pissing into the wind with only 16GB. That is insane.


Reducing arcs also makes the library usable on computers with 16 GB ram. My test yesterday was promising.

MacBook Pro late 2013, 16 GB Ram.

But I tend to use VEPro, because at least Cubase requires more cpu than necessary. I think with VEPro it's better, but it'll test itself tomorrow.

RAM is no problem if you don't load a full template with many arcs.


----------



## mixingvenom

bricop said:


> I'm using a Macbook Pro with 16GB memory but I think it's too early to say how it is going to run as there are so many bugs to be fixed. I was assured before buying that it would run no problem on my Macbook Pro but so far it's all just clicks and pops so it's no use at the moment. The sound and concept is amazing but feels like it was released too early before serious beta testing.



Same experience so far as you both — on an i7 16 GB MBP and the library is not usable, it is all clicks and pops. I have tried different stream buffer settings and such but have not been successful at all, even a single instrument with 1 mic position and all arts loaded is not playable.

edit: DAW is Cubase 10


----------



## vdk-john

Hi,
I downloaded the Cubase template created by Alex Watson; I opened it in Cubase 10.0.50 Pro (on Win 10) and didn't load the icons.

It seems to work fine but if I try to enable Harp + Celeste at the same time it freezes Cubase. Enabling those one at a time works fine. Enabling other tracks by selecting multiple ones also work, so not sure what's going on.

If you have that template with Cubase 10 Pro on Windows 10, could you check if the same happens to you?

Thanks


----------



## AndyP

venomisto said:


> Same experience so far as you both — on an i7 16 GB MBP and the library is not usable, it is all clicks and pops. I have tried different stream buffer settings and such but have not been successful at all, even a single instrument with 1 mic position and all arts loaded is not playable.


That's weird. I don't have the problem. 12 tracks without problems with clicks.
Ram consumption was about 8GB, but the cpu consuption in cubase was high with many legato patches and CC controllers. But only with the legato patches. I didn't use an extra audio interface.

It would be interesting to know which conditions lead to them. Audio interfaces and settings in cubase can trigger different behavior.


----------



## AndyP

And it reminds me of what I've found:
If the release is set to normal and you play in quick succession, e.g. marcatos, the cpu load goes enormously high! This reminds me of the behaviour of the short strings in L&S chamber stings when using the ensembles.


----------



## Denkii

paulthomson said:


> just whacked up the spiccato and did this, 3 mins flat so no tweaking, just quantised - you could make it tighter than this by increasing the 'Tightness' value in each patch.
> 
> All the best - please keep the feedback (good and bad!) coming, we are listening. And the fab support team are getting back to anyone with problems as fast as they can.



Since you specifically asked for it, here comes my 2 cents:
1. Strings shorts
The tighten knob does not eliminate timing issues in some of the round robins of shorts (spiccato AND staccato, regardless of what kind of strings).
If you want to impress since this has never been one of your strongest points: please fix shorts (no bashing, just honest opinion).

2. brass
By now you should be very aware of the fact that the brass section is lackluster compared to the rest. Tonewise this should be your top priority section.

3. Dynamic layers
Any chance we will see more layers added into the libraries (especially for brass and strings)?
Brass is again the top of the list, where most instruments are missing a proper transition between the two existing dynamic layers AND all of them need a new top layer. I would be happy if the cuivres are used for this since they often sound pretty good but swapping articulations between legato and cuivre only for the top layer that should've been included in the legato patches in the first place does not only seem like it is a painful workflow - it really is.

These are my absolute main gripes with the library and I don't even need to break them down on a per instrument level since they are obviously apparent no matter what instrument you look at.

Edit:
4. RAM handling
Basically what the people were saying who are experiencing weird ram handling behavior. This should objectively be your technical top priority since it renders customers unable to use your product. Also from a strategic standpoint you would probably be best off to make your own app as accessible as possible so that transitioning other products to your own player will be easier to justify in the future when it comes to your customers opinion about it.

Also if we are already talking about this part: please fix whatever mechanisms you have that are supposedly purging unused samples because - at least for me - they don't seem to work too well. The more you load and swap (instruments and/or articulations), the more data will stay loaded for that instance even if you deactivate articulations or change to another patch. It just grows over time with no way to properly purge unnecessary parts.

Edit 2:
I realised I sound like an old grumpy man and just wanted to also let you know that there is a lot of good stuff to be said about BBCSO.
Personally I really, really like sound of the woodwind section as a whole. Seeing for what it is, just a part of an entire package that comes with way more, I did not expect that I'd end up liking it more than my SA studio woodwinds pro. But that's what happened. It somehow just "clicks" way more with me.
I don't know if it could hold up to your symphonic woodwinds because I don't have those but that would be an unfair comparison anyway. Same goes for competition like BWW or infinite Woodwinds. From the price perspective (with regards to the BBCSO introduction price) these would be unfair comparisons and your new section is very good for what it is.

Also: I love the sound of your string section. It 'melts' together really well and I find the playability of the legato patches to be better than expected. Please just fix the timing issues of the short articulations and this would be an OKish library in of it's own (for it to be REALLY good, you'd need more dynamic layers).

Percussion is limited but I can see myself absolutely using what's included. Most of it sounds very good.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

Thought I'd leave this here.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

MarcHedenberg said:


> Thought I'd leave this here.




Great video. I'd like to know what his system specs are.


----------



## cqd

Was it me or did Guy have a few well placed monologues as things loaded?..


----------



## MarcHedenberg

cqd said:


> Was it me or did Guy have a few well placed monologues as things loaded?..



I was too distracted by the Hans Zimmer cut-out to tell.


----------



## CT

MarcHedenberg said:


> Thought I'd leave this here.




Watching now... who is this guy? He's charming, haha.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

vdk-john said:


> Hi,
> I downloaded the Cubase template created by Alex Watson; I opened it in Cubase 10.0.50 Pro (on Win 10) and didn't load the icons.
> 
> It seems to work fine but if I try to enable Harp + Celeste at the same time it freezes Cubase. Enabling those one at a time works fine. Enabling other tracks by selecting multiple ones also work, so not sure what's going on.
> 
> If you have that template with Cubase 10 Pro on Windows 10, could you check if the same happens to you?
> 
> Thanks



Downloaded the Cubase template from Alex and enabled the Harp + Celeste with no issues.

I'm running an AMD 3700X on Windows 10 and Cubase 10 Pro


----------



## MarcHedenberg

miket said:


> Watching now... who is this guy? He's charming, haha.



The one and only Guy Michelmore. The grandpa I never had.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Andrew0568 said:


> ...the flute sounds lovely!
> 
> Yup, Ark 2 choir


Yes the flute is my favorite from the BBCSO WWs so far.
Oh gosh I love Ark 2! I'll sure notice that children choir anytime


----------



## Bluemount Score

I like music said:


> You haven't heard or seen Rudy?! One of my all-time favourite scores. And there's a good chance you'll like it too!!! Watch it!!!


I haven't  Thanks, added to my watchlist.


----------



## gtrwll

Here's a BBCSO demo that I just finished:



I used BBCSO exclusively for this piece, with a touch of reverb, very little EQ and very light limiting on the master bus. No balancing done on mix faders (all tracks on unison), everything done with the modwheel dynamics.

Cubase 9.5, W10, Ryzen 1700, 32GB RAM and run from a SSD, found a middle road to be able to compose something, but couldn't get creative with arts and mics yet.


----------



## I like music

There are a few things I didn't like in the sound of this library, but there are 'sounds' here that are utterly gorgeous. (I don't own it, but from some of the demos, I can tell there are certain 'sweet spots' and instruments that shine!)


----------



## vdk-john

Benjamin Duk said:


> Downloaded the Cubase template from Alex and enabled the Harp + Celeste with no issues.
> 
> I'm running an AMD 3700X on Windows 10 and Cubase 10 Pro



thanks for trying this!
just to be clear as I forgot to mention it, I was referring to the Hybrid one.

I'm trying a few more things to see if I can find a pattern or something a bit less "random". But this happens every time I try it so 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Benjamin Duk

vdk-john said:


> thanks for trying this!
> just to be clear as I forgot to mention it, I was referring to the Hybrid one.
> 
> I'm trying a few more things to see if I can find a pattern or something a bit less "random". But this happens every time I try it so 🤷‍♂️



Just tried it on the Hybrid one as well and no crash either. Must be something in your system it doesn't like.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Still building my FL Studio template, made specifically for BBCSO. The libraries strongest and weakest parts, based on various opinions, are no secret anymore. Still, I have to get this done and start composing to convince myself.


----------



## mralmostpopular

My take, and I hope I’m right, is that the library simply isn’t finished. This is seemingly confirmed by Paul’s comment about the clarinet. It seems like they likely got a little in over their heads releasing a full library on this new player, and chose to release it partially finished, rather than to delay. Either way, it doesn’t help their reputation. They should’ve had a lot of this worked out before announcing a specific release date.

There are parts of the library that sound bad in every demo that I’ve heard. The releases for many instruments sound very unrealistic. I feel like the hype for this library was huge, and if they don’t get it right, it’s going to taint any future releases from them.

Maybe it’s because I haven’t been burned by Spitfire in the past like some people commenting, but I get the sense that they truly do want to get this right. The sound of the library, especially in the space, is really fantastic, but the the execution needs a lot of tweaking. If they can tighten this up, and solve the memory issues with their player, they may have something really nice here.

Just my opinion, but they should start updating as soon as they can, rather than waiting for some big update. It will go a long way to instilling confidence that they’re working on it.


----------



## Scamper

gtrwll said:


> Here's a BBCSO demo that I just finished:



Nice track, what mics did you use?

Despite some flaws, that were mentioned, I find the sound itself is still fantastic in every demo, that I've heard. For me, this is really a sweet spot of a big and powerful sound, yet without too much reverb to stay detailed and clear still.
Out of all the libraries, that I've heard in different rooms and stages, this is probably my favorite set of samples with this sound character.


----------



## Joel Ewers

Bluemount Score said:


> Still building my FL Studio template, made specifically for BBCSO. The libraries strongest and weakest parts, based on various opinions, are no secret anymore. Still, I have to get this done and start composing to convince myself.
> 
> View attachment 23614
> View attachment 23615



That is utterly fabulous. I use FL as well, and my approach is nowhere near as organized as yours!


----------



## Zero&One

MarcHedenberg said:


> Thought I'd leave this here.




Great video thanks. 
Funny what he managed to create in 36mins with a broken unfinished library


----------



## gtrwll

Scamper said:


> Nice track, what mics did you use?



Thanks! The backbone is Mix1, and I think all had the full spill mics on 100%. Some percussion had the close mics added. Had to freeze quite a few tracks to be able to add the extra mics.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Joel Ewers said:


> That is utterly fabulous. I use FL as well, and my approach is nowhere near as organized as yours!


Thanks! I feel much more comfortable when working with an organized, good looking template.
What's still missing is correct mixer routing and (the biggest part) articulation management using BRSO articulate.
I you want, I can send it to you once it's done.


----------



## vdk-john

Benjamin Duk said:


> Just tried it on the Hybrid one as well and no crash either. Must be something in your system it doesn't like.



Could be however usually Cubase is pretty stable for me with other plugins. Trying again it worked once, and then it crashed when I tried to disable them both at the same time...

Anyway, thanks again for trying. I'll let you know if I find what's causing it


----------



## vdk-john

James H said:


> Funny what he managed to create in 36mins with a broken unfinished library



Hehe,
however for those who don't know him, it's worth checking out the wikipedia page about him. He's super nice and humble in his videos but when I googled his name the first time I was like


----------



## ism

MarcHedenberg said:


> Thought I'd leave this here.




This is such a joy to watch. There’s something in the sound here that somehow feels entirely new, not something that you can approach with SSO or CSS or HW or VSL. Which is what ultimately sells me on Spitfire library after Spitfire librray.

It’s also kind of an ‘anti-‘ Daniel James review. Neither are remotely ‘objective’, but while this one bubbles along with enthusiasm, immersed in feeling the sheer musicality of the lib, Daniel’s (which I’ve only skimmed) feels like it performs a painstaking technical dissection pointing out each and every technical limitation and flaw in exhaustive detail.

Both types of review are great to have. But it’s nice to have this kind of review to go alongside it, as I think it captures something essential.


----------



## schrodinger1612

Bluemount Score said:


> Thanks! I feel much more comfortable when working with an organized, good looking template.
> What's still missing is correct mixer routing and (the biggest part) articulation management using BRSO articulate.
> I you want, I can send it to you once it's done.


I’d appreciate the template file as well if that’s okay? Nice to see another FL user btw


----------



## Bluemount Score

Frank Costabile said:


> I take it none of
> 
> I’d appreciate the template file as well if that’s okay?


Yeah sure. I've noted your name. I'll send it to you if I don't forget, might still take a couple of days.. I'll only use few third party plug-ins. BRSO Articulate will be needed (it's free if you don't have it), but reverb and EQ are kinda replacable.


----------



## MaxOctane

mralmostpopular said:


> My take, and I hope I’m right, is that the library simply isn’t finished. It seems like they likely got a little in over their heads releasing a full library on this new player, and chose to release it partially finished, rather than to delay.



I've stopped believing in the idea of "it will be better (and finished) in future updates." Yes, we've seen many updates for many Spitfire libs, but I can't think of any lib where major usability or sound issues have been completely fixed, turning the product around. Phobos, for example, got some preset management and resizeability (yay!), but then all development stopped, completely (as far as I can tell). Sacconi Quartet still has inconsistent levels across all artics and instruments (not to mention a different reverb tail for Vn2). HZStrings is basically the same today as on week 2 post-launch. And so on.


----------



## Joel Ewers

Bluemount Score said:


> Thanks! I feel much more comfortable when working with an organized, good looking template.
> What's still missing is correct mixer routing and (the biggest part) articulation management using BRSO articulate.
> I you want, I can send it to you once it's done.



That would be much appreciated. Hopefully my 32GB of RAM will be enough to load that up. I must say, with all the Cubase issues going around, I haven't noticed any crazy memory hogging in FL, even loading up 80 instances. Have you hit any big issues yet?

(I should note, I use the clunky method of one articulation per instance. Probably not the most efficient way, but it's how I learned. )


----------



## schrodinger1612

Bluemount Score said:


> Yeah sure. I've noted your name. I'll send it to you if I don't forget, might still take a couple of days.. I'll only use few third party plug-ins. BRSO Articulate will be needed (it's free if you don't have it), but reverb and EQ are kinda replacable.


Thank you


----------



## Denkii

Joel Ewers said:


> (I should note, I use the clunky method of one articulation per instance. Probably not the most efficient way, but it's how I learned. )


Holy hell...how many tracks do you end up with?


----------



## MarcHedenberg

ism said:


> This is such a joy to watch. There’s something in the sound here that somehow feels entirely new, not something that you can approach with SSO or CSS or HW or VSL. Which is what ultimately sells me on Spitfire library after Spitfire librray.
> 
> It’s also kind of an ‘anti-‘ Daniel James review. Neither are remotely ‘objective’, but while this one bubbles along with enthusiasm, immersed in feeling the sheer musicality of the lib, Daniel’s (which I’ve only skimmed) feels like it performs a painstaking technical dissection pointing out each and every technical limitation and flaw in exhaustive detail.
> 
> Both types of review are great to have. But it’s nice to have this kind of review to go alongside it, as I think it captures something essential.



That's why I posted it actually, you hit the nail on the head. Daniel touched on it in his review, but the library definitely caters more to classical sounds, and Guy's background in more classically oriented compositions probably goes a long way to explain why his reception is so much more positive.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Joel Ewers said:


> That would be much appreciated. Hopefully my 32GB of RAM will be enough to load that up. I must say, with all the Cubase issues going around, I haven't noticed any crazy memory hogging in FL, even loading up 80 instances. Have you hit any big issues yet?
> 
> (I should note, I use the clunky method of one articulation per instance. Probably not the most efficient way, but it's how I learned. )


No jokes, my PC has 16GB right now which will be a _huge_ problem. I currently have all instruments loaded, but all mics unloaded. And the library doesn't sound very impressive like that 
BBCSO is the reason why I'll be upgrading to 32GB now. Was about time.
And no, once I swaped from internal HDD to external SSD, the loading times seemed fine to me. Not as fast as Kontakt, but no bigger problem either.
And for the articulations, you need to check out BRSO articulate! It pretty much doubles FL Studios power when it comes to controling orchestral libraries!


----------



## vdk-john

does anyone of you who used the library on day one (from the SSD pre-order) remember the exact version number?

I noticed in Guy Michelmore's video he's using v. 1.0.0 and was wondering if that might be a review copy.

That said I 100% agree with this:



ism said:


> It’s also kind of an ‘anti-‘ Daniel James review. Neither are remotely ‘objective’, but while this one bubbles along with enthusiasm, immersed in feeling the sheer musicality of the lib [cut]
> 
> Both types of review are great to have. But it’s nice to have this kind of review to go alongside it, as I think it captures something essential.


----------



## I like music

vdk-john said:


> Hehe,
> however for those who don't know him, it's worth checking out the wikipedia page about him. He's super nice and humble in his videos but when I googled his name the first time I was like



Wow. Nice!


----------



## Joel Ewers

Denkii said:


> Holy hell...how many tracks do you end up with?



As many as I need! I usually just compose as I go, adding bass pizzicato or horn cuivre where I need them, so it can look quite messy, all said and done. Chalk it up to ADHD but it's what works for me.


----------



## I like music

Joel Ewers said:


> Chalk it up to ADHD



That's the drive Spitfire seem to have sent the library out on, rather than an SSD, based on this thread


----------



## Joel Ewers

Bluemount Score said:


> No jokes, my PC has 16GB right now which will be a _huge_ problem. I currently have all instruments loaded, but all mics unloaded. And the library doesn't sound very impressive like that
> BBCSO is the reason why I'll be upgrading to 32GB now. Was about time.
> And no, once I swaped from internal HDD to external SSD, the loading times seemed fine to me. Not as fast as Kontakt, but no bigger problem either.
> And for the articulations, you need to check out BRSO articulate! It pretty much doubles FL Studios power when it comes to controling orchestral libraries!



That's a clever method. Well, I was feeling insecure about RAM...almost to the point of upgrading to 64GB, but this makes me feel better. And I've heard about BRSO, I think it's time I go check it out.


----------



## Zero&One

vdk-john said:


> does anyone of you who used the library on day one (from the SSD pre-order) remember the exact version number?
> 
> I noticed in Guy Michelmore's video he's using v. 1.0.0 and was wondering if that might be a review copy.



It was v.1.0.0. Remember very well... as it didn't work for me. The v.1.0.2 was my fix


----------



## mralmostpopular

MaxOctane said:


> I've stopped believing in the idea of "it will be better (and finished) in future updates." Yes, we've seen many updates for many Spitfire libs, but I can't think of any lib where major usability or sound issues have been completely fixed, turning the product around. Phobos, for example, got some preset management and resizeability (yay!), but then all development stopped, completely (as far as I can tell). Sacconi Quartet still has inconsistent levels across all artics and instruments (not to mention a different reverb tail for Vn2). HZStrings is basically the same today as on week 2 post-launch. And so on.



I can totally understand that. I don’t think anyone should buy it hoping that it will be better later. It might be, but it might not be. That being said, there are a lot of really disappointed folks in this thread that can feel a little better knowing that Spitfire has seemed to acknowledge some issues and do seem to be working on some of them. Whether or not it will end up with a significantly improved library, only time will tell.


----------



## Zero&One

mralmostpopular said:


> That being said, there are a lot of really disappointed folks in this thread that can feel a little better knowing that Spitfire has seemed to acknowledge some issues and do seem to be working on some of them.



It's worth remembering, there's two issues here. Plugin vs Library

I'm almost certain the plugin will be getting a high degree of attention, as that is actually stopping folk using the product. Take away the memory issue and this thread would read very different.

The library will get updated as per normal schedule I'd imagine. Maybe with a slight higher urgency due to above issue.


----------



## dzilizzi

I've been watching Daniel's videos (and will continue tomorrow) and my takeaway in the strings so far is he really likes the sound, but is frustrated with the slowness of the player - similar to the first impressions a lot of others were giving. Some of that may have to do with the fact he is running it off an HDD rather than an SSD. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people take away that this player sucks and oh, the library sounds good.

But I did enjoy watching Guy and wondered how much he actually cut out of the video. Because his stuff loaded awfully fast compared to everything else I am hearing. It does sound really good, especially with some of the other mic positions. 

I'm actually liking what I am hearing. I just hope they are able to fix the Windows issues, as I will probably be running mostly on Windows 10/Cubase 10. Or worse - Windows 10/ProTools 2019.


----------



## Mike Fox

James H said:


> It's worth remembering, there's two issues here. Plugin vs Library
> 
> I'm almost certain the plugin will be getting a high degree of attention, as that is actually stopping folk using the product. Take away the memory issue and this thread would read very different.
> 
> The library will get updated as per normal schedule I'd imagine. Maybe with a slight higher urgency due to above issue.


I'm sure SF saw all of this coming (both the good and the bad). It just makes me wonder if their thought process was along the lines of "it's better to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission". Just a thought. 

Regardless, i think it would have been better for SF to have worked out the kinks before releasing such a major library.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

I think it is not as bad as it seems. In forums like this sadly most of the time only the negative things are written (and repeated a couple of hundred times). People only tend to write what you cannot do. I mean if I am searching for flaws I will find them in every product (the big hype and expectations created by the marketing backfires a little bit here too).

For me it is:

Strings sound good
Woodwinds are not too bad either
Percussion has some very nice tonal percussion like Celeste...
Brass might lack the ff layer, but most people writing "epic" stuff say this about almost every 2nd lib out there. Lower dynamic layer sounds beautiful, no complaints here.
User interface could take some improvements, but honestly most of the time the user interface will stay closed and you are using modwheel or faders to change parameters while recording.
Problems with low thump on the tubular bells? Come on just pop an EQ. We are doing this all day long. It's not really a problem.
Spill mics: Pretty interesting. I feel like they can indeed make a difference. Not yet enough time to play with them yet, but first impression is good.
Watching Guy Michelmore's first look video: Not touching any fader or EQ and it sounds quite balanced already. Just my impression.
Long loading times: Don't complain unless you use an SSD.
Biggest issue right now is stability/bugs of the Spitfire player.
The hickups in the player need fixing.
It seems to be a little bit rushed out (might as well be on purpose in order to launch it before OT drops their new player to the market). And I bet OT exactly knows why it takes them so long to bring the new engine around.

I still see lots of potential in BBCSO.


----------



## Christopher Rocky

Bluemount Score said:


> Yeah sure. I've noted your name. I'll send it to you if I don't forget, might still take a couple of days.. I'll only use few third party plug-ins. BRSO Articulate will be needed (it's free if you don't have it), but reverb and EQ are kinda replacable.



I would be interested in the FL template as well mate!?! would you be so kind to send to me also?!
I've recently made the transition to cubase from FL, mainly because i found it too hard to manage the mixer with 100's of instances of instruments, cubase definitely has been better in every aspect, except for brso. my god brso is the greatest i miss it dearly.


----------



## ism

Manuel Stumpf said:


> People only tend to write what you cannot do.



Nice overview. 


I guess that since I'm not going to buy this lib anytime soon (not much point with only 8G), what's interesting to me is what kind of new musical worlds does it opens that we get aspire to get to now that we couldn't aspire to get to with sample libraries before this library. 


So I appreciate all the technical information (and sympathize with technical issues) its all perfectly tedious and irrelevant to me at the moment. 


What it does highlight though, is what I like about sample library "reviews" - when they are actually review in the sense of whatever the sample library analogue of literary criticism - is the way they can give a sense of opening musical possibilities.


Respect to Daniel (and I mean this) for single handedly inventing another entirely new genre - which I think I'm going to call the "Sample Library Dissection", and I well appreciate the value of this given the professional and financial stakes of sample libraries. 

But it's also kind of a drag that amidst all this noise, there's only a scattering of reports on what the actual new musical dimensions are that this library is opening. I mean, I can hear them in the demos, and in the above review, and in some of the comments, before they're drown out by technical issues. 

So looking forward to hearing more of this - and not least more demos, for some of them are really sounding great so far.


----------



## CT

dzilizzi said:


> But I did enjoy watching Guy and wondered how much he actually cut out of the video. Because his stuff loaded awfully fast compared to everything else I am hearing.



I specifically watched his computer clock for that reason, and it didn't look like there was much cutting going on in that regard.


----------



## Zero&One

Mike Fox said:


> Regardless, i think it would have been better for SF to have worked out the kinks before releasing such a major library.



100% yeah. I've not forgotten I bought an SSD for "instant playability" but couldn't even load it for over a day.
That easily could have been easily tested pre launch, with a cross section of early adopters on different platforms/systems by releasing the plugin and one section.

I do believe SA when they say they are learning from each stage of their development. They have proven that with the SA App, Black Friday/Christmas, YouTube and hiring dedicated teams and so on.

Want to echo ISM's comments on noise. It's really a shame as this library is simply beautiful, even with the current issues noted. It's a pleasure and joy to use, if you are not hampered by the RAM issue. And that's taking into account I really wanted to punt the SSD out the back door launch day! I'm loving it.


----------



## ed buller

Manuel Stumpf said:


> I think it is not as bad as it seems. In forums like this sadly most of the time only the negative things are written (and repeated a couple of hundred times). People only tend to write what you cannot do. I mean if I am searching for flaws I will find them in every product (the big hype and expectations created by the marketing backfires a little bit here too).
> 
> For me it is:
> 
> Strings sound good
> Woodwinds are not too bad either
> Percussion has some very nice tonal percussion like Celeste...
> Brass might lack the ff layer, but most people writing "epic" stuff say this about almost every 2nd lib out there. Lower dynamic layer sounds beautiful, no complaints here.
> User interface could take some improvements, but honestly most of the time the user interface will stay closed and you are using modwheel or faders to change parameters while recording.
> Problems with low thump on the tubular bells? Come on just pop an EQ. We are doing this all day long. It's not really a problem.
> Spill mics: Pretty interesting. I feel like they can indeed make a difference. Not yet enough time to play with them yet, but first impression is good.
> Watching Guy Michelmore's first look video: Not touching any fader or EQ and it sounds quite balanced already. Just my impression.
> Long loading times: Don't complain unless you use an SSD.
> Biggest issue right now is stability/bugs of the Spitfire player.
> The hickups in the player need fixing.
> It seems to be a little bit rushed out (might as well be on purpose in order to launch it before OT drops their new player to the market). And I bet OT exactly knows why it takes them so long to bring the new engine around.
> 
> I still see lots of potential in BBCSO.




what he said

e


----------



## NoamL

gtrwll said:


> Here's a BBCSO demo that I just finished:
> 
> 
> 
> I used BBCSO exclusively for this piece, with a touch of reverb, very little EQ and very light limiting on the master bus. No balancing done on mix faders (all tracks on unison), everything done with the modwheel dynamics.
> 
> Cubase 9.5, W10, Ryzen 1700, 32GB RAM and run from a SSD, found a middle road to be able to compose something, but couldn't get creative with arts and mics yet.




The word "cohesiveness" keeps getting thrown around, deservedly! It's got such a glued-together sound.

This demo seems to have the same release envelope issues as the other user demos.


----------



## prodigalson

NoamL said:


> The word "cohesiveness" keeps getting thrown around, deservedly! It's got such a glued-together sound.
> 
> This demo seems to have the same release envelope issues as the other user demos.



Unsurprisingly as there is no way (that I can tell) to adjust the releases of the longs or legatos.


----------



## Cat

prodigalson said:


> Unsurprisingly as there is no way (that I can tell) to adjust the releases of the longs or legatos.


I noticed that if I increase CC17 from 64 (default) to 72 or 75, the Strings (longs) sound better. For the Legatos, this is not available.


----------



## cqd

Does anyone else just have random note dropouts?.. either being played or already recorded?


----------



## Zero&One

gtrwll said:


> Here's a BBCSO demo that I just finished:
> 
> 
> 
> I used BBCSO exclusively for this piece, with a touch of reverb, very little EQ and very light limiting on the master bus. No balancing done on mix faders (all tracks on unison), everything done with the modwheel dynamics.




So glad I waited to listen through monitors. Beautiful work and so deservedly bumped back up the thread.


----------



## prodigalson

cqd said:


> Does anyone else just have random note dropouts?.. either being played or already recorded?



Yes, just tried sequencing a phrase that had horn chords alternating via keyswitch between longs and Long Sfz and the Long Sfz has regular dropouts. No apparent reason or conditions that I would expect this to happen. Loud pop and notes drop out but no CPU overload or any scenario in which this would be expected.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, it's happening here across instruments at random..


----------



## Cormast

Bluemount Score said:


> Still building my FL Studio template, made specifically for BBCSO. The libraries strongest and weakest parts, based on various opinions, are no secret anymore. Still, I have to get this done and start composing to convince myself.


Would you share your amazing template ?


----------



## synthetic

I would love a knob and/or MIDI controller to dial out that staccato on the strings when you hit it hard. I keep doing that by accident. Then I back off too much and get the glisses. Maybe the velocity curve to get the staccato overlay just needs to be a bit higher. 

I just played along with Princess Leia's Theme and the releases sounded similar to that to me if you fade out the phrase before you release. Not all the way down like I did in my demo, but 2/3 of the way.


----------



## synthetic

I just noticed that the legato violins 1 have a round robin setting, up to 5, default is 1. I assume these are recorded RRs since neighbor RRs are in the Options menu. If so, why the heck are they turned off? Maybe it was just me but you might wanna check.

Also some of the RR layer settings in the Option menu are kinda cool, check the manual.


----------



## artomatic

I can honestly say that BBCSO, for me, is a winner! What a gorgeous sounding library.
Already used it on a few tracks I'm working on with no significant hiccups (iMac Pro, 64GB, Pro Tools Ultimate). 
There've been buyer's remorse and tons of negative comments in this thread dealing with numerous issues. That's really unfortunate and I hope that Spitfire will quickly provide an update.
So grateful that I now have this wonderful orchestra available to me 24/7.
All the best!


----------



## gtrwll

NoamL said:


> This demo seems to have the same release envelope issues as the other user demos.



Good point, I initially messed with the releases, but this demo has the default ones in place.



James H said:


> So glad I waited to listen through monitors. Beautiful work and so deservedly bumped back up the thread.



Thanks! The sound is a joy to work with, and I'm sure I'll get a good mileage out of this.


----------



## Bluemount Score

ChristopherRock said:


> I would be interested in the FL template as well mate!?! would you be so kind to send to me also?!





Cormast said:


> Would you share your amazing template ?


Yes and yes, I will once it's done,


----------



## christianhenson

If Guy became a youtuber he'd have me as a subscriber, thanks for such a positive first look:


----------



## Erik

cqd said:


> Does anyone else just have random note dropouts?.. either being played or already recorded?


I have.


----------



## redlester

cqd said:


> Does anyone else just have random note dropouts?.. either being played or already recorded?



I’ve had that but only when several instruments are playing at once, so I put it down to my low system spec and HDD.


----------



## Simon Ravn

James H said:


> It's worth remembering, there's two issues here. Plugin vs Library
> 
> I'm almost certain the plugin will be getting a high degree of attention, as that is actually stopping folk using the product. Take away the memory issue and this thread would read very different.
> 
> The library will get updated as per normal schedule I'd imagine. Maybe with a slight higher urgency due to above issue.


But there is no way they will be recording extra dynamic layers, legato interval samples etc... so it’ll be stuck with these fundamental problems.

Listening again to some demos and new walkthroughs/videos I still think this library has/had great potential. The general sound of it is great. It just seems they cut too many corners to keep costs down.

I wish they had gone overboard and done twice the amount of sessions resulting in more dynamic layers, say, deeper sampled strings with RR sustains on violins and cellos at least, at least two types of vibrato etc... they could have done such an amazing, deep sampled collection of a cohesive sounding orchestra, as someone already mentioned. They could have had an absolute winner on their hands.

Maybe they ended up doing this "50% there" solution to avoid crippling the rest of their portfolio, who knows.


----------



## mikeh-375

Simon Ravn said:


> But there is no way they will be recording extra dynamic layers, legato interval samples etc... so it’ll be stuck with these fundamental problems.



Only SA can answer this. I for one am hoping for clarity on this. I just wish I _didn't_ think Simon has a point here. I'd like to be able to buy this, but not as it stands


----------



## Manaberry

I've been reading almost every post since the thread was created (Jesus that's almost 6K posts guys wtf...)

BBCSO has strong points from what I've heard on DJ's review but it has also bad ones..


First, I found that the keynote back in August was actually a product announcement. I felt quite bad about it. It was clearly a 100% commitment to BBCSO over all the rest. I'm not used to this kind of "keynote".

Beta test phase was clearly too short. Unless customers are the beta testers.

Now, I feel that the library has been released right before Black Friday for a reason. People used to save for November crazy deals. This is the sweet spot every year. I see what you did there SA 😉 

A company has to make profits and you format 2019 schedule for BBCSO, I get that. But this release was clearly rushed don't you think SA?
I almost fall for it, but glad I didn't.

Don't get me wrong, I've spent thousands on your products, I like them. Just use some of that money to add a layer or two, improve the UI and fix the shorts.


----------



## Erik

redlester said:


> I’ve had that but only when several instruments are playing at once, so I put it down to my low system spec and HDD.


Don't. 
Specs: PC, Win10, 128 Gb RAM, Intel i9-7920X, 12 cores, CPU 2.90 Ghz. The library sits on a SSD, internal, Samsung EVO 2 Tb.
Suffering badly from known hassle. I sent them a support ticket yesterday. Hope they will sort this out asap.

Please know that I was impressed by the sonical and musical qualities of some of the patches I was able to listen at. Woodwinds are gorgeous sometimes imo.

I will stop complaining now here. Doesn't make me feel happy. They know now at SA, I presume.


----------



## ERIC VALETTE

Erik said:


> Don't.
> Specs: PC, Win10, 128 Gb RAM, Intel i9-7920X, 12 cores, CPU 2.90 Ghz. The library sits on a SSD, internal, Samsung EVO 2 Tb.
> Suffering badly from known hassle. I sent them a support ticket yesterday. Hope they will sort this out asap.
> 
> Please know that I was impressed by the sonical and musical qualities of some of the patches I was able to listen at. Woodwinds are gorgeous sometimes imo.
> 
> I will stop complaining now here. Doesn't make me feel happy. They know now at SA, I presume.


Same thing here, all the time on a powerful system too... even with only one instance of the plugin open and only one microphone position activated.

Spitfire support contact me last night (thanks guys!!!). I reprocduce the message here:

_"Thank you for getting in touch. We have an ongoing high priority case with the developers to try and identify and resolve this issue affecting some Windows users and I have flagged this case so I can update you as soon as there are any further developments. In the meantime please could you screenshot the "system information" for your PC and briefly summarize your spec such as CPU, RAM and disk format where the library is stored?"_

It seems that their technical teams are working hard on the problem. I think we should all wait patiently for their conclusions now


----------



## Benjamin Duk

MaxOctane said:


> I've stopped believing in the idea of "it will be better (and finished) in future updates." Yes, we've seen many updates for many Spitfire libs, but I can't think of any lib where major usability or sound issues have been completely fixed, turning the product around. Phobos, for example, got some preset management and resizeability (yay!), but then all development stopped, completely (as far as I can tell). Sacconi Quartet still has inconsistent levels across all artics and instruments (not to mention a different reverb tail for Vn2). HZStrings is basically the same today as on week 2 post-launch. And so on.



Yeah this is true. No major updates for HZ Strings even though many people were unhappy about certain aspects.

I doubt anything major will change for BBC SO.


----------



## Daniel Stenning

So - as someone about to take a deep dive into orchestral stuff - and having had second thoughts on BBC SO once I watched both Guys and Daniels helpful reviews - I still am wanting to invest and standardise in just one good big orchestral GOTO library.

Currently I have the following - KOMPLETE 11 Ultimate with the Essentials Orchestra stuff one gets with KOMPETE 11 and of course the VSL Factory Kontakt library........AND ..... because I wanted Vienna Ensemble Pro - now have the EPIC Orchestra SE 70GB library that comes with VEP. I actually really like - love sometimes even - the sound and quality of the EPIC stuff in VEP - but its very clear that this is really just a very pared down "taster smorgasbord" collection to lure one into their proper libraries. Which do appear to cost an arm and a leg.

Should I go BIG on one of the Vienna deals then or start with something like Berlin or Cinematic Strings?

At this point I'm not going for jobs yet - I first want to inspire myself and make music that inspires me personally and "reflects" me - ie just for myself. But I want a toolset that doesn't have me hunting myriad different orch libs just to get the right violin or nipple gong... ( memories of the proms there )

any suggestions peeps?


----------



## Zero&One

Daniel Stenning said:


> So - as someone about to take a deep dive into orchestral stuff - and having had second thoughts on BBC SO once I watched bot Guys and Daniels helpful reviews - I still am wanting to invest and standardise in just one good big orchestral GOTO library.



Could literally be a million answers to this, but my 2 cents: 
(taking into account you want "just one good big orchestral GOTO library")

BBC SO

1. Many senior members here say the same thing "if i was starting out again this would be my first purchase"
2. You have one product to use. Nothing more damaging to creativity than library searching/hopping
3. Price. Getting a similar set across other brands will cost more (of the ones you mentioned)
4. Your main focus is on the music, your music. Not getting that amazing Brass sound YouTube sensation TheGuruMoozat gets. Only to find on purchase that it's because he's the real talent... not the product.
5. There is an existing template, designed by knowledgeable guys
6. It sounds incredible. Has some issues atm... they all have.
7. Buy one of the other things mentioned. I will guarantee you will be scanning every sale to compliment Product A with product B within a month. Again, not a creative process.
8. Finally, when you have exhausted this you can still buy products where you feel it is lacking. But your purchases will be enhancing an existing orchestra and not filling in holes of another.

OT, CSS and VSL are amazing, and there's numerous others. None of which you will be disappointed with. Try to stick with one is my advice as it can become very expensive and it isn't good for creativity or your mental health


----------



## MarcHedenberg

James H said:


> Could literally be a million answers to this, but my 2 cents:
> 
> BBC SO
> 
> 1. Many senior members here say the same thing "if i was starting out again this would be my first purchase"
> 2. You have one product to use. Nothing more damaging to creativity than library searching/hopping
> 3. Price. Getting a similar set across other brands will cost more (of the ones you mentioned)
> 4. Your main focus is on the music, your music. Not getting that amazing Brass sound YouTube sensation TheGuruMoozat gets. Only to find on purchase that it's because he's the real talent... not the product.
> 5. There is an existing template, designed by knowledgeable guys
> 6. It sounds incredible. Has some issues atm... they all have.
> 7. Buy one of the other things mentioned. I will guarantee you will be scanning every sale to compliment Product A with product B within a month. Again, not a creative process.
> 8. Finally, when you have exhausted this you can still buy products where you feel it is lacking. But your purchases will be enhancing an existing orchestra and not filling in holes of another.
> 
> OT, CSS and VSL are amazing, and there's numerous others. None of which you will be disappointed with. Try to stick with one is my advice as it can become very expensive and it isn't good for creativity or your mental health



A bleak and at the same time encouraging answer that I agree with. 

While I don't personally own it, I'm told great things about Nucleus. Honestly, the price and footprint of that in terms of memory and disk space usage, it's kinda hard to beat for how good it sounds. Maybe consider that and force yourself to stick with that library while blending in stuff from Komplete 10? Doesn't have to be Nucleus that you purchase, obviously, but I think that approach is sound. Compose first, make it sound as good as you possibly can - after studying orchestration, mixing, etc. - and then figure out what's missing in your arsenal. 

Personally, my first library was Albion One. I got by with that and free samples for a good two years before I even purchased Komplete 11. You'd be surprised by the mileage you can get out of a library.


----------



## paulthomson

Hi Erik,

The team are on it. We'll get you up and running as quickly as humanly possible!


Just for balance to some of the perception here - we've got a ton of PC users with no problems. I'm sure once we've isolated whatever is going wrong with some users that will feed through to performance gains for other users as well. We have PC users in the teams here at SF. and a ton of test rigs. Mac and PC. There are many many variables on the PC side that can lead to some unforeseen problems - we have to then find whats causing these and code around it. We have an incredibly talented software team.

Its entirely my fault that some of the WW/Brass have 'extended' legato functionality but not all. This was not supposed to be in v1.0 - as the patches take a long time to program and perfect. They are super super complex under the hood to allow for multiple dynamics, non vib and vib, fast playing, and so on. However I got the bit between my teeth when I heard Andy's fantastic string legatos - and I just wanted to try and get thru as many as possible before the release.

I guess rather than 'unfinished' you've got part of what was supposed to be a big free update in the launch version.. I guess that can easily confuse the issue so thats mea culpa.. We've actually refined the process some as well so rest assured that these are being worked on and we'll get them to you as soon as we can.

There's also a ton of extra material we'll be releasing but I'm not going to announce all of that as I want that to be a welcome addition and nice surprise when it lands.

Couple of general points, before I get back to work!! If you keep an eye on the Library Manager you'll see we are constantly listening and fixing things, updating libraries, across the board. This won't change of course. Not all updates are like the Solo Strings Total Performance patches - some are more subtle, but every library gets the care and attention - we are in a constant state of updating things in a cycle. Nothing is abandonware.

there’s a huuuuge HZ strings update waiting to drop...

Also - theres a reason we devs don't do "comparison" videos of each others products. One - it would be super disrespectful to a bunch of really talented people - some of whom we are delighted to count as friends - a little friendly rivalry never hurt anyone! - but the main reason, is that even beyond the well accepted fact that you can't just copy paste midi data from one library to another and expect it to sound good, each library is like an instrument you have to learn: but also, its incredibly easy to make something sound bad - and then hone in on that. It would be deeply unfair.

I have a huge respect for the guys at OT, Cinematic, EW, Cinesamples, Embertone and so on. We're journeyfolk, crazy geeks on a passionate drive to make stuff that people can use to be creative. Everyone makes great products that have uses - but you can make all of them sound bad if you want to. What would be the point of that?!! I want all these guys to do well - theres plenty of room for different takes on the same fundamental idea. We're all employing musicians and keeping studios busy.

Anyways - just a few thoughts!! back to work!!!

P


----------



## Erik

Thanks Paul, eagerly waiting....


----------



## MarcHedenberg

Erik said:


> Thanks Paul, eagerly waiting....



You might say we're all very excited to get the next update.


----------



## AllanH

The more I play the BBCSO, the more I like it. The tone of everything is simply gorgeous and everything fits together. 

There is something unique about room, in that it has rich early reflections but very little muddy tail. It just gives so much freedom for strings, brass, and woodwinds. For the perc, the room does not provide a lot of impact (imo), but for more "classical" pieces, the room works well.


----------



## paulthomson

MarcHedenberg said:


> You might say we're all very excited to get the next update.



Haha... touché!


----------



## rudi

A great post by Paul.


----------



## iliketomusicmusic

Hey Paul, it's good to see you reach out and are addressing specific concerns. A question if I may, I know you're probably staying somewhat vague on purpose, but could you comment on some of the specifics of existing sampling issues such as dynamic layers and dynamics especially in brass. Would these been aspects that you can see being tackled going forward or are these fixed?


----------



## redlester

Simon Ravn said:


> The general sound of it is great.
> 
> It just seems they cut too many corners to keep costs down.
> 
> I wish they had gone overboard and done twice the amount of sessions resulting in more dynamic layers, say, deeper sampled strings with RR sustains on violins and cellos at least, at least two types of vibrato etc...



It would be fantastic had they done all that. But the cost would have gone up. When the library was first announced the thing many were most pleased with was the cost, but that seems to have been largely forgotten now and in fact some are claiming it's too expensive.

Your first line is the most important aspect for me. Especially, and I mentioned this yesterday but will be hundreds of posts back now, taking the time to really experiment with the mics can radically alter the sound in immensely pleasing ways.


----------



## fahl5

Here are my RAM-Usage figures
I have loaded literarlly the 43 different available Patches (my system: i7-7820x + 128GB RAM Win 10 Pro)
With the default "mix1" the Windows Taskmanager announces 37% Ram used my Resource monitor Gadget says 47 GB used.
I also was able to unload all mix1 and load the close, tree, Out and Amb Microphones instead with using altogether 114 GB of my system.

To be honest I do not expect, that I would always load litereally everything, that fact will allow me to experiment for instance with adding other microphones.

To sum up so far my first Impression:
OK as many other especially high quality Libraries, this Orchestra is RAM-hungry but still in a way which keeps it usable on a dedicated system. Since we can install and use ist on two System at a time it is realistic to split it over two PC ( for instance with VE-Pro).

What I can hear it sounds quite apealing in nearly every patch I played around with. But to really judge its quality I must have the chance to realise serious project. Thats to early now.
I am still extremly embarrased from what we have got for such a little price.
That is really great and high quality stuff.


----------



## Stevie

Concerning the "missing" crossfade layer in the Horns:

I could see 2 ways to deliver that with the current samples:

1. take the highest velocity layer and process it with a filter so that it fits sonically right between the
mf and ff layer. Of course this is not the real deal, but might be worth trying out if an additional recording session is out of question.

2. implement a special filter in the player that will take care for that: there used to be a filter in Gigasampler, that could create lower dynamics from an ff sample. I can't remember what is what called, but it provided very good results. Many years later, Kontakt introduced something similar with "AET".


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

paulthomson said:


> Its entirely my fault that some of the WW/Brass have 'extended' legato functionality but not all. This was not supposed to be in v1.0 - as the patches take a long time to program and perfect. They are super super complex under the hood to allow for multiple dynamics, non vib and vib, fast playing, and so on. However I got the bit between my teeth when I heard Andy's fantastic string legatos - and I just wanted to try and get thru as many as possible before the release.



That's great news! 

Is there still a legato walkthrough coming? Because I'm not quite sure about the short overlays. For strings it's okay, but for brass you have to alter the velocity response curve or assign it to the modwheel. Thus, some clarification is very welcome.

Also, I haven't figured out yet how to play fast lines with the strings without getting these short overlays. It's very tricky to play in live. Are there some tips?


----------



## Leslie Fuller

cqd said:


> Lads..Barry's tea..



Oh yes, mmm... Barry’s Tea! Not visited our friends in Cork for ages. I know they’ll be coming for their winter trip to London, and must ask for a couple of boxes.


----------



## Sovereign

redlester said:


> It would be fantastic had they done all that. But the cost would have gone up.


Really? I think you are forgetting there are many complete (or sets) orchestral packages out there for around a 1000 bucks, and none of those have only two dynamic layers for the most important articulations. I think it is rather disappointing that a library which appears to strive for more realism in terms of overall cohesiveness and the focus on spill mics, would then cut corners where it matters most. That's like building a beautiful car on the outside, but with a shitty interior.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Sovereign said:


> Really? I think you are forgetting there are many complete (or sets) orchestral packages out there for around a 1000 bucks, and none of those have only two dynamic layers for the most important articulations. I think it is rather disappointing that a library which appears to strive for more realism in terms of overall cohesiveness and the focus on spill mics, would then cut corners where it matters most. That's like building a beautiful car on the outside, but with a shitty interior.



I would rather have had the price 50% higher and have more dynamic layers and more sample content overall. OR, if I knew I was not be able to do more than 2-3 dynamic layers because of time/budget limits, I would have raised that to 4 and cut some of the more less used articulations like sul pont, tremolo sul pont, short harmonics etc. But they obviously wanted to squeeze in all essential articulations and then some, at the expensive of expressiveness and general useability unfortunately.


----------



## synkrotron

christianhenson said:


> If Guy became a youtuber he'd have me as a subscriber



I thought he was a "YouTuber"

Currently has over 22K subs...


----------



## cqd

Yeah, for them to cheap out on the dynamic layers is a shame really..yeah, some of it sounds nice, but if it's not really that expressive, you'd wonder how it will be viewed here for instance in a years time, when people are no longer rationalising buying it to themselves..either pre or post puchase.. When someone asks for a suggestion for a first Orchestra then, will it be mentioned?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Stevie said:


> Concerning the "missing" crossfade layer in the Horns:
> 
> I could see 2 ways to deliver that with the current samples:
> 
> 1. take the highest velocity layer and process it with a filter so that it fits sonically right between the
> mf and ff layer. Of course this is not the real deal, but might be worth trying out if an additional recording session is out of question.
> 
> 2. implement a special filter in the player that will take care for that: there used to be a filter in Gigasampler, that could create lower dynamics from an ff sample. I can't remember what is what called, but it provided very good results. Many years later, Kontakt introduced something similar with "AET".


I still occasionally do this with other libraries, mapping a low pass filter to the mod wheel to ride alongside the dynamic layers. Once you add the mix and 'verb back, it's surprisingly effective.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Has anyone tried loading Christian's Logic template for "A New Chapter"? In the video, Christian says it's just over 7GB, with about 40 tracks loaded (one mic position). Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## TechHarlan

I used mainly the strings legato patches
Mix 1 + String Spills + a touch of balcony


----------



## Fleer

christianhenson said:


> If Guy became a youtuber he'd have me as a subscriber, thanks for such a positive first look:



Wonderful to see how he goes from unpacking to sublime orchestrations in half an hour. Simply wonderful. Thanks indeed.


----------



## Stevie

Alex Fraser said:


> I still occasionally do this with other libraries, mapping a low pass filter to the mod wheel to ride alongside the dynamic layers. Once you add the mix and 'verb back, it's surprisingly effective.



My thoughts exactly! However, with the "custom player" we are unable to do that on our own... 
Spitfire would have to go that route.


----------



## Patrick.K

Finally ! That can close the debate of pros and cons.
Paul Thomson is right when he speaks of those who simply copy a midi file and are unhappy with the result ... An orchestral library does not work like a vulgar CD player! must be tamed, understand his philosophy and for what use it was created.In any case I am more and more enthusiastic for this library, yet I had doubts by reading all the reviews, but listening to some demos, I realize its potential if we have a minimum of knowledge in harmony, orchestration and so on.
Many criticize the brass for example, and the horns in particular (I thought if i understand) ... not enough FF etc .. but how many have really heard horns live in the symphony orchestra?
They are often soft and fluffy, with an attack more often soft than brutal.It is impossible for a musician to hold FF for 50 measures without catching his breath, or playing constantly in the extreme registers of his instrument.Imagine the bass trombonne player !, or the violonist always playing in 8 th or 9th position.
I also think that many are too used to thunderous orchestrations, "blockbuster" sounds, often among young people (it's not a criticism), who do not have the knowledge of what a symphonic orchestra is, limits instruments, all this dynamic, this balance between the different instruments, this "Alchemy" so difficult, impossible to reproduce with samples.
The fundamental mistake is to believe that a symphony orchestra sounds like the over-the-top trailers of some Hollywood movies, always with the same sound and effects that many copy. The music does not stop only in Hollywood and Hanz Zimmer (which I like a lot). When I listen live a symphony orchestra, or a string quartet, I slap each time a slap in the face, I realize the ditch, the distance that there between reality and our virtual orchestras ... It's frustrating, but it opens our ears and also our brain, it's part of learning, it makes us progress enormously.
Nothing is perfect in this world, even the best musicians make mistakes and false notes, they bug, too, but who hears it ?, if the emotion and the intention are there.
We live in a wonderful world with our expensive toys.
We are fortunate to have at our disposal day and night the samples of a world-famous symphony orchestra, played by top musicians, and we are the conductor !.
It's up to us to make it sound, it does not come by itself, we have to work a lot. We are spoiled children, stifled by technology. Let's stop dissecting this library or others
in technical and esoteric terms like numbers of layers, milliseconds latency, shorts not enough shorts , in modweel CC1 to 65 instead of 54, too many microphones, or artifacts on the E4.
At the end we get up and we still applauded SA for taking this risk.
in layers, milliseconds late, in shorts not enough shorts , in modweel CC1 to 65 instead of 54, too many microphones, or artifacts on the E4.
 When I think of the Orchestra Strings srx cards of my Roland U 22O expandeur of the 80's, how lucky we are now !.
At the end we get up and we still applauded SA and Paul Thomson for taking this risk.
Think about music and be creative, and that's the hardest thing.
And even with an old wooden tennis racket, a good tennis player will always be better than me and my racket is carbon !.
PS : Sorry for my bad english !.


----------



## Larry Hanshaw

Well, well, looks like the SSD showed up this morning. I'll get it installed and tested within the next couple days


----------



## mikeh-375

Patrick9152 said:


> Finally ! That can close the debate of pros and cons.
> Paul Thomson is right when he speaks of those who simply copy a midi file and are unhappy with the result ... An orchestral library does not work like a vulgar CD player! must be tamed, understand his philosophy and for what use it was created.In any case I am more and more enthusiastic for this library, yet I had doubts by reading all the reviews, but listening to some demos, I realize its potential if we have a minimum of knowledge in harmony, orchestration and so on.
> Many criticize the brass for example, and the horns in particular (I thought if i understand) ... not enough FF etc .. but how many have really heard horns live in the symphony orchestra?
> They are often soft and fluffy, with an attack more often soft than brutal.It is impossible for a musician to hold FF for 50 measures without catching his breath, or playing constantly in the extreme registers of his instrument.Imagine the bass trombonne player !, or the violonist always playing in 8 th or 9th position.
> I also think that many are too used to thunderous orchestrations, "blockbuster" sounds, often among young people (it's not a criticism), who do not have the knowledge of what a symphonic orchestra is, limits instruments, all this dynamic, this balance between the different instruments, this "Alchemy" so difficult, impossible to reproduce with samples.
> The fundamental mistake is to believe that a symphony orchestra sounds like the over-the-top trailers of some Hollywood movies, always with the same sound and effects that many copy. The music does not stop only in Hollywood and Hanz Zimmer (which I like a lot). When I listen live a symphony orchestra, or a string quartet, I slap each time a slap in the face, I realize the ditch, the distance that there between reality and our virtual orchestras ... It's frustrating, but it opens our ears and also our brain, it's part of learning, it makes us progress enormously.
> Nothing is perfect in this world, even the best musicians make mistakes and false notes, they bug, too, but who hears it ?, if the emotion and the intention are there.
> We live in a wonderful world with our expensive toys.
> We are fortunate to have at our disposal day and night the samples of a world-famous symphony orchestra, played by top musicians, and we are the conductor !.
> It's up to us to make it sound, it does not come by itself, we have to work a lot. We are spoiled children, stifled by technology. Let's stop dissecting this library or others
> in technical and esoteric terms like numbers of layers, milliseconds latency, shorts not enough shorts , in modweel CC1 to 65 instead of 54, too many microphones, or artifacts on the E4.
> At the end we get up and we still applauded SA for taking this risk.
> in layers, milliseconds late, in shorts not enough shorts , in modweel CC1 to 65 instead of 54, too many microphones, or artifacts on the E4.
> When I think of the Orchestra Strings srx cards of my Roland U 22O expandeur of the 80's, how lucky we are now !.
> At the end we get up and we still applauded SA and Paul Thomson for taking this risk.
> Think about music and be creative, and that's the hardest thing.
> And even with an old wooden tennis racket, a good tennis player will always be better than me and my racket is carbon !.
> PS : Sorry for my bad english !.



well Patrick, I'm no slouch when it comes to scoring and imv, a lack of dynamic breadth is a bar to effective and less restrictive composing and scoring. I don't expect ff for 50 bars anywhere in an orchestra, but I should be able to achieve ff when I need it. Likewise, high d's and e's on violins are not completely unreasonable when approached adequately and with care.
Not all of us are trailer composers, some here are classically trained (some trailer guys too no doubt) and yet there is still dissent about this product because it has seemingly cut a corner that impinges directly on expression.


----------



## AEF

Patrick9152 said:


> Finally ! That can close the debate of pros and cons.
> Paul Thomson is right when he speaks of those who simply copy a midi file and are unhappy with the result ... An orchestral library does not work like a vulgar CD player! must be tamed, understand his philosophy and for what use it was created.In any case I am more and more enthusiastic for this library, yet I had doubts by reading all the reviews, but listening to some demos, I realize its potential if we have a minimum of knowledge in harmony, orchestration and so on.
> Many criticize the brass for example, and the horns in particular (I thought if i understand) ... not enough FF etc .. but how many have really heard horns live in the symphony orchestra?
> They are often soft and fluffy, with an attack more often soft than brutal.It is impossible for a musician to hold FF for 50 measures without catching his breath, or playing constantly in the extreme registers of his instrument.Imagine the bass trombonne player !, or the violonist always playing in 8 th or 9th position.
> I also think that many are too used to thunderous orchestrations, "blockbuster" sounds, often among young people (it's not a criticism), who do not have the knowledge of what a symphonic orchestra is, limits instruments, all this dynamic, this balance between the different instruments, this "Alchemy" so difficult, impossible to reproduce with samples.
> The fundamental mistake is to believe that a symphony orchestra sounds like the over-the-top trailers of some Hollywood movies, always with the same sound and effects that many copy. The music does not stop only in Hollywood and Hanz Zimmer (which I like a lot). When I listen live a symphony orchestra, or a string quartet, I slap each time a slap in the face, I realize the ditch, the distance that there between reality and our virtual orchestras ... It's frustrating, but it opens our ears and also our brain, it's part of learning, it makes us progress enormously.
> Nothing is perfect in this world, even the best musicians make mistakes and false notes, they bug, too, but who hears it ?, if the emotion and the intention are there.
> We live in a wonderful world with our expensive toys.
> We are fortunate to have at our disposal day and night the samples of a world-famous symphony orchestra, played by top musicians, and we are the conductor !.
> It's up to us to make it sound, it does not come by itself, we have to work a lot. We are spoiled children, stifled by technology. Let's stop dissecting this library or others
> in technical and esoteric terms like numbers of layers, milliseconds latency, shorts not enough shorts , in modweel CC1 to 65 instead of 54, too many microphones, or artifacts on the E4.
> At the end we get up and we still applauded SA for taking this risk.
> in layers, milliseconds late, in shorts not enough shorts , in modweel CC1 to 65 instead of 54, too many microphones, or artifacts on the E4.
> When I think of the Orchestra Strings srx cards of my Roland U 22O expandeur of the 80's, how lucky we are now !.
> At the end we get up and we still applauded SA and Paul Thomson for taking this risk.
> Think about music and be creative, and that's the hardest thing.
> And even with an old wooden tennis racket, a good tennis player will always be better than me and my racket is carbon !.
> PS : Sorry for my bad english !.



My issue is it still doesnt sound like a real orchestra. So the argument that the fewer dynamic layers somehow makes it more real doesnt hold water for me.

Deeper sampling and less mics and this really would be all you need.


----------



## Sovereign

mikeh-375 said:


> Not all of us are trailer composers, some here are classically trained and yet there is still dissent about this product because it has seemingly cut a corner that impinges directly on expression.


It's almost as if some seem to be moving towards the suggestion you only need to sample one dynamic layer anyway, just throw a filter over it to compensate. Less samples = better.


----------



## synkrotron

Patrick9152 said:


> Sorry for my bad english



English is pretty good.

However, I find it difficult to process the wall of text without a few handy paragraphs here and there.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Simone95 said:


> I used mainly the strings legato patches
> Mix 1 + String Spills + a touch of balcony




Sorry but that is not showing the best side of this library I am sure. It does underline that the legato is pretty badly done though.


----------



## paulthomson

Seems a bit echoey in here.


----------



## cqd

Not as echoey as Air..


----------



## synkrotron

paulthomson said:


> Seems a bit echoey in here. in here in here in here


----------



## mikeh-375

cqd said:


> Not as echoey as Air..



do you mean my wife......(awful I know, sorry, do I get any Quality St?)


----------



## synkrotron

apologies @paulthomson 

couldn't resist...


----------



## Patrick.K

mikeh-375 said:


> well Patrick, I'm no slouch when it comes to scoring and imv, the lack of dynamic breadth is a bar to effective composing and scoring. I don't expect ff for 50 bars anywhere in an orchestra, but I should be able to achieve ff when I need it. Likewise, high D's and e's on violins are not unreasonable when approached adequately.
> Not all of us are trailer composers, some here are classically trained and yet there is still dissent about this product because it has seemingly cut a corner that impinges directly on expression.


You're probably right, 
I trust my ears, but I'm wrong maybe ... In any case BBSO attracts me a lot, because I heard beautiful things ..
But my mastery of composition and bookstores does not allow me to have a reliable opinion, unfortunately I'm just a little amateur musician, with a lot of curiosity and passion since I was late to learn (in addition to the piano and the alto sax which are my basic instruments), the violin and the cello, so back to the music school ... just to understand and suffer too, because it's a lot of work. tells me that I have a beautiful sound, but I am unable to play more than 8 bars without making a mistake, but it does not matter, since I can start again as many times as I want ...
It's just to say that I think the practice of one or more instruments can be useful for composing and using our libraries.
Finally I believe by experience, at my small level.


----------



## Noeticus

Hello Paul,

Can you PLEASE confirm that more dynamic layers are coming as a free update?

Or, even as a paid expansion?


----------



## ridgero

The brass section looks buggy. In addition to the already known Staccatissimo problems, I noticed one more thing:

The Legato notes lacks crispness and can not be played as loud as playing a note individually - It seems like you are playing a different layer

Is that just me or others?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

What is the obsession with dynamic layers??? They would need to re-record everything.


----------



## NoamL

Stevie said:


> Concerning the "missing" crossfade layer in the Horns:
> 
> I could see 2 ways to deliver that with the current samples:
> 
> 1. take the highest velocity layer and process it with a filter so that it fits sonically right between the
> mf and ff layer. Of course this is not the real deal, but might be worth trying out if an additional recording session is out of question.
> 
> 2. implement a special filter in the player that will take care for that: there used to be a filter in Gigasampler, that could create lower dynamics from an ff sample. I can't remember what is what called, but it provided very good results. Many years later, Kontakt introduced something similar with "AET".



If I sample a person shouting and whispering, blending these two layers wouldn't add up to a person speaking normally. That's the best illustration I can think of regarding the solo horn legato. The _p_ layer is very good and the _f_ layer is decent. But when DJ played at around 50-70 on the modwheel it really sounded like those two layers blended (i.e. mostly hearing the forte layer with a volume decrease), rather than a rich and full but _not_-buzzy mezzoforte. Not sure if there are actually 3 dynamic layers. Can people who own the library check? Is it listed in the manual somewhere?

You do not have to take @Daniel James 's word for it. Here is a walkthrough by a different gent, he really likes the library. (*please note that the sound is coming from the speakers in the room, not recorded straight off the computer*).

In any case, it doesn't seem like the 4hns have this problem, only the soloist. And once again, there's lots to love about this library. Those con sordino tremolos and the flautandos and the celeste are just really excellent.


----------



## paulthomson

I cannot.

There is stuff already recorded that we will be adding.

but remember the point of this library was a sub 1k complete orchestral library ina box.

It really is very expressive. There’s a couple of misconceptions.

The horns, were crazy loud in the room playing ff. yes they don’t sound like a 12 horn patch, and we haven’t EQd them to sizzle like a trailer lib - that’s super easy though. I might do a vlog on production techniques and show stuff like that.

Spending a million dollars on a library ain’t “cheaping out”!!

and re the above Quality St ref:

I have CQDs card marked.

It clearly stands for “Chocolate? Qualitystreet Demanded”


----------



## Mike Fox

Daniel Stenning said:


> So - as someone about to take a deep dive into orchestral stuff - and having had second thoughts on BBC SO once I watched both Guys and Daniels helpful reviews - I still am wanting to invest and standardise in just one good big orchestral GOTO library.
> 
> Currently I have the following - KOMPLETE 11 Ultimate with the Essentials Orchestra stuff one gets with KOMPETE 11 and of course the VSL Factory Kontakt library........AND ..... because I wanted Vienna Ensemble Pro - now have the EPIC Orchestra SE 70GB library that comes with VEP. I actually really like - love sometimes even - the sound and quality of the EPIC stuff in VEP - but its very clear that this is really just a very pared down "taster smorgasbord" collection to lure one into their proper libraries. Which do appear to cost an arm and a leg.
> 
> Should I go BIG on one of the Vienna deals then or start with something like Berlin or Cinematic Strings?
> 
> At this point I'm not going for jobs yet - I first want to inspire myself and make music that inspires me personally and "reflects" me - ie just for myself. But I want a toolset that doesn't have me hunting myriad different orch libs just to get the right violin or nipple gong... ( memories of the proms there )
> 
> any suggestions peeps?


Orchestral Essentials 1 & 2. Lots of instruments, fx, and articulations. All recorded in the same hall. Sounds and works great out of the box. Easy on resources. Will cost you a mere $379 for the bundle. One of the best options on the market, imo. Check out Guy Rowland's walkthrough videos!


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Wolfie2112 said:


> What is the obsession with dynamic layers??? They would need to re-record everything.



The obesession with dynamic layers is because it's a $1K library. Not a cheap library. Hence people kind of expect those kind of things to be in an expensive library.


----------



## iliketomusicmusic

paulthomson said:


> I cannot.
> 
> There is stuff already recorded that we will be adding.
> 
> but remember the point of this library was a sub 1k complete orchestral library ina box.
> 
> It really is very expressive. There’s a couple of misconceptions.
> 
> The horns, were crazy loud in the room playing ff. yes they don’t sound like a 12 horn patch, and we haven’t EQd them to sizzle like a trailer lib - that’s super easy though. I might do a vlog on production techniques and show stuff like that.
> 
> Spending a million dollars on a library ain’t “cheaping out”!!
> 
> and re the above Quality St ref:
> 
> I have CQDs card marked.
> 
> It clearly stands for “Chocolate? Qualitystreet Demanded”




Thank you Paul, that's the kind of straight forwardness I'd been hoping for in terms of response to questions and concerns. Gives me a sense of clarity and trust.


----------



## redlester

Sovereign said:


> Really? I think you are forgetting there are many complete (or sets) orchestral packages out there for around a 1000 bucks, and none of those have only two dynamic layers for the most important articulations.



Speaking of the most important articulations, are you certain the sleigh bells only have two? 😁


----------



## Jett Hitt

This thread has some of the most acerbic comments imaginable. I mean seriously, it hasn’t been out for a week yet. Give them some space. I admit I was suspicious because of all the hype—it really was over the top—but I kept telling myself that there was no way Spitfire was going to throw their whole reputation away to sell a medium priced library. Their main mistake was trying to deliver too soon. I bet Paul sees to it that everything is top notch in the end. There’s a reason he hasn’t been very excited lately. He could see the storm coming. In the end, I think we’ll all be glad we own this. It might be six months from now, but in time it’ll be almost as good as the hype. I’m looking forward to some happy years of working with these sounds.


----------



## redlester

Benjamin Duk said:


> it's a $1K library. Not a cheap library.



Some people on the day it was announced were incredulous that they could do it for the price that it is. By the way I agree, it's not cheap, just saying this was not the initial reaction. Presumably those people had preconceptions of certain aspects.


----------



## CT

By today's standards, I think $1k for a full orchestra is absolutely cheap....


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> Speaking of the most important articulations, are you certain the sleigh bells only have two? 😁


..speaking of which, did you get your prize? Amazon says it was delivered.


----------



## axb312

paulthomson said:


> I cannot.
> 
> There is stuff already recorded that we will be adding.
> 
> but remember the point of this library was a sub 1k complete orchestral library ina box.
> 
> It really is very expressive. There’s a couple of misconceptions.
> 
> The horns, were crazy loud in the room playing ff. yes they don’t sound like a 12 horn patch, and we haven’t EQd them to sizzle like a trailer lib - that’s super easy though. I might do a vlog on production techniques and show stuff like that.
> 
> Spending a million dollars on a library ain’t “cheaping out”!!
> 
> and re the above Quality St ref:
> 
> I have CQDs card marked.
> 
> It clearly stands for “Chocolate? Qualitystreet Demanded”



Why don't the horns sound crazy loud in the Lib?


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> ..speaking of which, did you get your prize? Amazon says it was delivered.



Still at work, will let you know later. I would attach a chocolate to a post if only that were possible!


----------



## ridgero

Benjamin Duk said:


> The obesession with dynamic layers is because it's a $1K library. Not a cheap library. Hence people kind of expect those kind of things to be in an expensive library.



I think everyone here has a different approach to this product. For me, this product with this variety is a bargain, especially if you buy it now or during a sale.

You get a complete ensemble of strings, woodwinds, brass and percussions. But that's not all: you get the complete solo instruments! That is gladly forgotten or not mentioned.

You also have the opportunity to put together your own mix. If you do not want to or if you do not have enough resources, you have two ready-made mixes.

For Daniel James this product is worth a maximum of $ 300. For me it is even with the current price an absolute bargain. I know that Paul or Christian mentioned it once that they share a part of the profit with every single player and I think that's absolutely great. In which relation would that stand for a $ 300 product?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

miket said:


> By today's standards, I think $1k for a full orchestra is absolutely cheap....



Especially at the intro price.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

miket said:


> By today's standards, I think $1k for a full orchestra is absolutely cheap....



Yeah you're probably right. I would not say cheap, but more moderately priced. 

It might just be a case of marketing it as a premium library and then not having everything people expect from that expectation.

I think most people would pay $1.5K with all the bells and whistles than to have missing dynamic layers etc.


----------



## Sovereign

NoamL said:


> If I sample a person shouting and whispering, blending these two layers wouldn't add up to a person speaking normally. That's the best illustration I can think of regarding the solo horn legato. The _p_ layer is very good and the _f_ layer is decent. But when DJ played at around 50-70 on the modwheel it really sounded like those two layers blended (i.e. mostly hearing the forte layer with a volume decrease), rather than a rich and full but _not_-buzzy mezzoforte. Not sure if there are actually 3 dynamic layers. Can people who own the library check? Is it listed in the manual somewhere?


No, there's no transparency on the recorded dynamics anywhere and I get why that is. The horn patch has no more than 2 dynamics (this seems to hold true for every legato patch in the library). It's pretty obvious from the voice number shown during playing and listening to the patch. There's no mf layer in between.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I love it when Paul gets chopsy..


----------



## jbuhler

Wolfie2112 said:


> What is the obsession with dynamic layers??? They would need to re-record everything.


It's a metric for people who are unhappy. Dynamic layers are a trade off and not just with respect to cost. Transitions between dynamic layers are a problem—I encounter them all the time in all sorts of libraries. Phase aligning can help the transitions between layers but it often comes at the expense of the sound. 

I've heard more good user demos already with this library than I have with any library in recent memory. I find the overall sound very appealing. Pieces seem to come together quickly. There is a cohesiveness to the sound that is not simply SF marketing talking. That suggests the library itself works well if it works on your system. Are there limitations? Yes, of course. Did SF make reasonable compromises? The quality of the user demos suggests that overall they did, even if they compromised in some places that I would not have. (What does SF have against muted brass!) Will BBCSO replace every other orchestral sample library? No, of course not. Given the business SF is in it would be incredibly weird if that's what they were aiming to do. 

Some of the complaints about this library are on the order of: "for $1000, I don't understand why can't I have the BBC Symphony on call in my studio?"


----------



## Noeticus

jbuhler said:


> "Some of the complaints about this library are on the order of: for $1000, I don't understand why can't I have the BBC Symphony on call in my studio?"



Now, that would be "Game Changing"!


----------



## Mike Fox

Would love to see how BBC performs in the modern/fast paced/intense horror or action genre. Would anyone be willing to post something in that vein, using BBC only? No other libs.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

jbuhler said:


> It's a metric for people who are unhappy. Dynamic layers are a trade off and not just with respect to cost. Transitions between dynamic layers are a problem—I encounter them all the time in all sorts of libraries. Phase aligning can help the transitions between layers but it often comes at the expense of the sound.
> 
> I've heard more good user demos already with this library than I have with any library in recent memory. I find the overall sound very appealing. Pieces seem to come together quickly. There is a cohesiveness to the sound that is not simply SF marketing talking. That suggests the library itself works well if it works on your system. Are there limitations? Yes, of course. Did SF make reasonable compromises? The quality of the user demos suggests that overall they did, even if they compromised in some places that I would not have. (What does SF have against muted brass!) Will BBCSO replace every other orchestral sample library? No, of course not. Given the business SF is in it would be incredibly weird if that's what they were aiming to do.
> 
> Some of the complaints about this library are on the order of: "for $1000, I don't understand why can't I have the BBC Symphony on call in my studio?"



Well said. I totally understand about things like the layers, etc, but like you said, it's not just this library/developer. I have yet to download BBCSO (I'm waiting to hear feedback from other MacBook Pro users), but from what I've soaked in, it sounds absolutely wonderful; I can live with its sonic shortcomings (trust me, I've been using EW SO and HO for years). In that regard, I fell it's a bargain.


----------



## NoamL

@paulthomson point well made about trailer sounds! Super-trailer-guy Mark Petrie often mentions a plugin called "Xfer OTT." It is a multiband dynamic compressor+expander that can turn anything into a brick. Even light settings will turn brass sustains into a very searing and consistent sound.

Some Bruckner very quickly sketched using *Spitfire Albion 1 *strings + *Albion 3* brass -



And now with some Xfer OTT on the brass bus:



Apocalyptic brass sound! :dodgy:

Watch out for noisy decays though, just like any compressor.

PS: Stravinsky once said there are two kinds of music - "the good kind, and Bruckner." Even 100 years ago trailer composers were getting no respect!!!


----------



## jbuhler

NoamL said:


> Stravinsky once said there are two kinds of music - "the good kind, and Bruckner." Even 100 years ago century trailer composers were getting no respect!!!


Trailer music that goes on for hours!


----------



## Daniel James

miket said:


> By today's standards, I think $1k for a full orchestra is absolutely cheap....



In relative terms absolutely. Its much cheaper than recording it all yourself, thats never in doubt. Its just BBCSO doesnt exist in a vaccum, it has considerable competition for what it is, some who do more in certain areas, for less.

So yes its cheaper in the grand scheme of our work but it really comes down to who this is for? If you are a beginner you are so much better off getting Kontakt 6 full. You get a full sampler which has incredible support, you get a full orchestral library to get you started, you have ethnic instruments, choir, band, organs....the works. If you are a professional you probably already have all of these instruments many times over and in most situations, have better options already.

Thats one of the problems with going wide rather than focused in scope, you end up with lots of 'good' patches rather than any 'awesome' patches, like you would get from a dedicated library. And thats the problem also with this library for me personally, if its aimed at beginners then its too expensive as they have cheaper more content rich options out there, if its for pros they already have stuff that is better and more forward thinking.

Which can only leave people who _really_ want this particular sound (which in some sections is a great sound) which is quite niche and would warrant its higher price tag, but I get the feeling its supposed to be for more than that.

But yeah, for those of you who are enjoying the library you are not wrong and you don't have to try to justify it. If you are happy with it I am genuinely super happy for you  When I put out a video and i'm not enjoying something, my opinion isnt the end all be all, its just how I feel about certain things given my experiences, my history and my style. So if how I see the world doesnt match up with how you guys do, it doesn't mean one of us is wrong and we have to fight for the truth, its all subjective and its totally cool for you to like what you like even if its at odds with how I feel! .....just wanted to put that out there for any who may actually be having fun but are scared to share that joy in amongst the support tickets and issues people are having. At the end of the day its only sample libraries and if BBCSO looks like the perfect library to you and you are comfortable with all the technical stuff then 100% go for it. Its not a bad library at all, it has issues but what in the world doesnt. At the end of the day its up to you guys to decide for yourself.

Anyways rant over. Have fun!

-DJ


----------



## MikeRolls

jbuhler said:


> Some of the complaints about this library are on the order of: "for $1000, I don't understand why can't I have the BBC Symphony on call in my studio?"



But isn't that basically what the pre-launch hype was telling us? I certainly had that impression, that we'd no longer need to mix libraries. And in fact looking at the keynote again it states "What if a single product could become the common ground for a generation of composers?"

and the comments certainly were excited about that.

I feel I'll end up getting it anyway, the demos I've heard sound great and I'm sure most of the niggles will be sorted out (although I'm a little concerned how much I'll be able to do with 32Gb RAM) but for a lot of us the feedback we've heard really wasn't what we expected.


----------



## Joel Ewers

hittjett said:


> This thread has some of the most acerbic comments imaginable. I mean seriously, it hasn’t been out for a week yet. Give them some space. I admit I was suspicious because of all the hype—it really was over the top—but I kept telling myself that there was no way Spitfire was going to throw their whole reputation away to sell a medium priced library. Their main mistake was trying to deliver too soon. I bet Paul sees to it that everything is top notch in the end. There’s a reason he hasn’t been very excited lately. He could see the storm coming. In the end, I think we’ll all be glad we own this. It might be six months from now, but in time it’ll be almost as good as the hype. I’m looking forward to some happy years of working with these sounds.



I like this attitude.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Just a quick post on the perceived monetary value of this library.
"Value" is a moving target:

Spend £2K on a library but use it most days for a decade? Good value.

Spend £50 on a library in a Black Friday sale but never use it? Not good value.

Spend £800 on BBCSO and spend hours complaining about it on a forum instead of using it?
Not good value.


----------



## Uiroo

Well, the SSO is at 1700€ right know, if you add Spitfire percussion it's 2100€.
That would be a full orchestra like BBCSO, but without first chairs.

I feel like there where hopes that BBCSO would have the same quality as SSO for half the price.


----------



## sostenuto

Spent $0. __ xxx hours viewing ~6000 posts __ multiple 7-hour stretches watching DJ videos ??
Still not able to 'value' 

_Player may be current issue of most concern._


----------



## Pontus Rufelt

for me BBCSO is looking like it’ll be another lovely color in the palette. It doesn’t cover all bases but does some things very well. It particularly comes together very nicely, sounding lush and full, when putting together all the sections of the orchestra, something a lot of other orchestral libraries don’t really offer the same way.

my doodling continues!


----------



## synkrotron

sostenuto said:


> Still not able to 'value'



You buy it, let us know how you get on


----------



## redlester

MikeRolls said:


> But isn't that basically what the pre-launch hype was telling us? I certainly had that impression, that we'd no longer need to mix libraries. And in fact looking at the keynote again it states "What if a single product could become the common ground for a generation of composers?"
> 
> and the comments certainly were excited about that.
> 
> I feel I'll end up getting it anyway, the demos I've heard sound great and I'm sure most of the niggles will be sorted out (although I'm a little concerned how much I'll be able to do with 32Gb RAM) but for a lot of us the feedback we've heard really wasn't what we expected.



Regarding the pre-launch hype, and as an addendum to DJ’s excellent post above, one of the very first things Christian said in his vlog I think the week before the announcement was “it won’t be for everyone”. Never a truer word!


----------



## Saigen

Alex Fraser said:


> Just a quick post on the perceived monetary value of this library.
> "Value" is a moving target:
> 
> Spend £2K on a library but use it most days for a decade? Good value.
> 
> Spend £50 on a library in a Black Friday sale but never use it? Not good value.
> 
> Spend £800 on BBCSO and spend hours complaining about it on a forum instead of using it?
> Not good value.



Spend £800 on BBCSO and not being able to use it because of RAM issues with Windows 10? Yep. That's where I am right now.

Quality wise of the library itself, I have no complaints in the world. It sounds gorgeous to my ears, and that's all that matters.

I arranged this part of Jenova Complete from the Final Fantasy Distant Worlds Concert using BBC. All the while facing issues of course.


----------



## CT

Daniel James said:


> If you are a beginner you are so much better off getting Kontakt 6 full.



See, but even this isn't really true in every case. When I was a beginner, I had orchestral samples around the level of those in the KFL, and it was a nightmare... it would have been far better for me in a number of ways to have had something like BBCSO available. It all depends on what you're a beginner at, I guess.

I'm not a beginner anymore, and this is still something I'm probably going to invest in as my core tool. There are of course many options out there, all better and worse than BBCSO and each other in different regards, but this one just feels like it's made for me more than any of the rest.


----------



## SupremeFist

Daniel James said:


> If you are a beginner you are so much better off getting Kontakt 6 full. You get a full sampler which has incredible support, you get a full orchestral library to get you started, you have ethnic instruments, choir, band, organs....the works.


If a beginner is interested in doing pro-quality orchestral mockups (which is why they might be interested in BBCSO in the first place), this is really terrible advice. Remember Spitfire still do Albion One for much cheaper.


----------



## Bluemount Score

miket said:


> See, but even this isn't really true in every case. When I was a beginner, I had orchestral samples around the level of those in the KFL, and it was a nightmare... it would have been far better for me in a number of ways to have had something like BBCSO available. It all depends on what you're a beginner at, I guess.


KFL has some gems, but overall is of course waaay below BBCSO. You don't even have different mic positions, let alone legato (except very few exceptions) in KFL. And Kontakt full is still $399.


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> ..speaking of which, did you get your prize? Amazon says it was delivered.



Gratefully received sir, you are an absolute gent.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Just because one’s staring out, doesn’t mean they should settle for an inferior library...like the orchestral sections of Komplete.


----------



## CT

Wolfie2112 said:


> Just because one’s staring out, doesn’t mean they should settle for an inferior library...like the orchestral sections of Komplete.



Exactly. I spent too many years with certain libraries which I won't name... and all this time later, I'm *still* waiting for the right one to come along and sweep me off my feet. BBCSO seems like a lovely lady in this respect....


----------



## redlester

miket said:


> BBCSO seems like a lovely lady in this respect....



Though in some situations she has memory lapses? 🤣


----------



## paulthomson

NoamL said:


> @paulthomson point well made about trailer sounds! Super-trailer-guy Mark Petrie often mentions a plugin called "Xfer OTT." It is a multiband dynamic compressor+expander that can turn anything into a brick. Even light settings will turn brass sustains into a very searing and consistent sound.
> 
> Some Bruckner very quickly sketched using *Spitfire Albion 1 *strings + *Albion 3* brass -
> 
> 
> 
> And now with some Xfer OTT on the brass bus:
> 
> 
> 
> Apocalyptic brass sound! :dodgy:
> 
> Watch out for noisy decays though, just like any compressor.
> 
> PS: Stravinsky once said there are two kinds of music - "the good kind, and Bruckner." Even 100 years ago trailer composers were getting no respect!!!




haha!! This sounds great! I’ll have to check that out - not heard of that plug..


----------



## CT

redlester said:


> Though in some situations she has memory lapses? 🤣



That has the makings of a charming romcom.


----------



## paulthomson

erm..? Months of bad press like the cover story on SOS..?
I’ll take that bad press!


----------



## ed buller

Paul...............I Freaking LOVE this Library ...But Respectfully either something happened to the brightness of the top Horns Stacc layer during programing...................or this was recorded AFTER lunch ?

BBCSO then STUDIO BRASS

all the best

ed


----------



## NoamL

miket said:


> By today's standards, I think $1k for a full orchestra is absolutely cheap....



I think it's super worth it even at $1.5k _if you have nothing else_. I mean look at the competition for deep sampled orchestras and what their prices are (and this _is_ a deep sampled product even if there are some things that could be improved - I don't see the point of comparing it to Nucleus or to Albion for that matter, it's so much deeper than those products).

_If you already have_ other libraries then what you're really buying is either converting your entire sound to this library, or picking and choosing some stuff from this library to add to your template.

Anyway I'm not gonna post more because I decided not to buy and I'm just crowding out posts by people who are trying to bring technical issues to SF's attention. It's good to hear they are working hard on updates like extended legato!


----------



## Jack Weaver

I think any thread that goes anywhere near this long tends to engender posts that tend to bring up issues with products. 

Spitfire has done well to create this much buzz and only have this much blowback. 

Will there always be some drawbacks with such a large collection? Probably, yeah. 

.


----------



## synkrotron

Well, I have nothing else, and therefore the Spitfire Audio British Broadcasting Corporation Symphonic Orchestra library is still very much on my radar.

Just sayin, like.


----------



## ism

Daniel James said:


> If you are a beginner you are so much better off getting Kontakt 6 full.




With respect Daniel, the problem with this over-generalization is that while it's surely true if you're a beginner and you're trying to be the next Daniel James, there are other experiences.

Much as I admire your work, and much as I have learned a lot from your videos, I am simply not trying to be the Daniel James (good thing too, as you, kind of by definition, kind of the Beethoven of the Daniel-James-esque genre, so I wouldn't want to have to try to out Daniel-Jame Daniel James).

And while perhaps a majority of your social media follower are aspiring to the Daniel-James-esque, but I don't think that a majority of vi-c composers necessarily are.


Your review was a superb, skillful, insightful technical dissection of the library. But as you were very clear about earlier on this thread, it never struck you as your type of library - which I totally get. And totally fair - there's nothing that has ever struck me either about this library that makes me think, "hey, you know what this would be great for - A Daniel James track!".


So now we have a thread that's focused (understandably) on some (hopefully ephemeral) technical issues, and (less understandably) on what the library isn't. And I get it - there's a lot of things this library isn't and was never going to be, and was never attempting to be.


But what's interesting about sample library criticism is also the art of digging into the musical possibilities - at least as much as the technical limitations.

And we see in a lot of libraries - especially Spitfire libraries, but certainly not just spitfire libraries, that it sometimes takes a while for composers to really dig into and understand the new musicality of the library. And there's a role for sample library criticism in this process.

And we're starting to hear those possibilities emerging in the demos, and in a couple of reviews that are able to get past the technical lever - and its great that we live in a world with all these different possibilities.


----------



## SupremeFist

Honestly I think what's putting some people off is that they've forgotten what a real orchestra sounds like. And even from the evidence of early demos, BBCSO sounds like an orchestra, not like a Frankenstein's monster of massively overhyped individual sections. Of course the latter has become a sound in its own right, but I think SA have been clear all along that this product isn't for that.


----------



## ism

SupremeFist said:


> Honestly I think what's putting some people off is that they've forgotten what a real orchestra sounds like. And even from the evidence of early demos, BBCSO sounds like an orchestra, not like a Frankenstein's monster of massively overhyped individual sections. Of course the latter has become a sound in its own right, but I think SA have been clear all along that this product isn't for that.



Yes, a terrible library for that hybrid hyper-aggressive sound. Whereas Jaeger and - to my ears at least - even Nucleus have such a different sound (and all respect to Audio Imperia for the vision and artistry of the "Audio Imperia Sound") that I'm baffled why they would even come up in the same discussion, except to point out what this library isn't.

Which is much less interesing that the (tiny, but hopefully growing) fragment of this threat that really starts to dig into what the library actually is. Because when it does what it's good at, wow it sounds great.


----------



## ism

I mean imagine a thread on Jaeger that went on and on about how you can't really do justice to Debussy with it.


----------



## Bluemount Score

synkrotron said:


> Well, I have nothing else, and therefore the Spitfire Audio British Broadcasting Corporation Symphonic Orchestra library is still very much on my radar.


You get a like as I really appreciate your effort of writing SA BBCSO out completely.


----------



## Leslie Fuller

redlester said:


> Regarding the amount of issues people are having with various aspects, as with anything it’s generally true that those who are unhappy are more likely to make the fact known, for obvious reasons. When people are happy with something they tend to have no, or fewer, comments to make unless they are pressed for them. This is reflected very much in another forum I use dedicated to my football team of choice, when we don’t win the threads are miles longer and more emotional than when we win (which means there have been plenty long and emotional threads lately!).
> 
> Every one of the posts reporting problems is valid and concerning, but it may not reflect the experience of most. Or it might. Only Spitfire will know the balance between purchasers and support requests.



Can I ask who you support?


----------



## ed buller

ism said:


> I mean image a thread on Jaeger that went on and on about how you can't really do justice to Debussy with it.


be fun to try !

e


----------



## jbuhler

MikeRolls said:


> But isn't that basically what the pre-launch hype was telling us? I certainly had that impression, that we'd no longer need to mix libraries. And in fact looking at the keynote again it states "What if a single product could become the common ground for a generation of composers?"
> 
> and the comments certainly were excited about that.
> 
> I feel I'll end up getting it anyway, the demos I've heard sound great and I'm sure most of the niggles will be sorted out (although I'm a little concerned how much I'll be able to do with 32Gb RAM) but for a lot of us the feedback we've heard really wasn't what we expected.


I don't know. I certainly didn't hear outrageous claims, especially once it became clear it was an orchestral library and it wasn't going to cost a small fortune. "What if a single product could become the common ground for a generation of composers?" The claim implicit in this comment doesn't seem exaggerated to me. The library has an appealing sound, it has decent coverage, by the speed with which people are producing decent sounding demos it seems like it is not overly complicated to use, it has a reasonably low cost. Without all four of those elements in place, it won't achieve that common ground. 

If enough folks buy it so that it can indeed serve as common ground, it opens up new possibilities. It's hard to share DAW files with other folks even when they have the same libraries because you have to relink the libraries to your own drives. My understanding is that this is not the case with BBCSO, so that would immediately get rid of one major bit of friction for this kind of sharing. That kind of sharing may not prove to be especially valuable (who knows?) but I can see ways that it might indeed be transformative, pedagogically, yes, but also in passing work along a chain of production. It will take awhile for those effects to be seen.


----------



## widekeys

ed buller said:


> Paul...............I Freaking LOVE this Library ...But Respectfully either something happened to the brightness of the top Horns Stacc layer during programing...................or this was recorded AFTER lunch ?
> 
> BBCSO then STUDIO BRASS
> 
> all the best
> 
> ed


Has anybody tried processing the signals? I did not download BBCSO yet (waiting for SSD Deals on Black Friday), so here is a quick eq+multiband compression version of ed's example. There is a lot of "room hiss" and the boost frequencies and compression ratios are just set in "hit and run" fashion. Maybe someone with access to all the mics can give it a try? I'd guess the closer placed mics will be able to add a more clean punch in the 10k+ frequencies.

Edit: Added distortion and high-cut.


----------



## fahl5

Daniel James said:


> ...and if BBCSO looks like the perfect library to you ....


Indeed, SA intended pretty much with BBC SO , and yes they delivered incredible much for an incredibloe affordable price. And yes Daniel is presumably right pointing on the seemingly paradox, that SA works with in many aspects highest quality ambitions while trying to keep the result still for many available.

While honestly it was difficult for me to understand Daniel: what in the first moment appeared to me completly inappropriate criticism lost the adaequate judgment for the whole with focussing on non representative details. But thinking, that this paradox obviously provoked Daniel to prove that what seemed to him impossible realy must be proven impossible. This might have nourished his eagerness to do so.

Still it is in my humble opinion it seems to be completly inadaequat, not to recognize, how much BBC SO has not only promised but as far as I can see for the moment also delivered.

But again Daniel is right, that his judgement is of course determined by what he does. If and how it fit to what I am interested in, is for me at leat currently way to early, since in my humble opinion you need more than one or two days to really seriously explore and discover what and how well a library is able to connect to musical intentions. 

And since he is absolutly right, that there is absolutly no library without problem, the quality of a library is in my humble opinion not defined by the mistakes one might find in one or another Detail, but by the things which are done well.

So for the moment (beside being still spontaneously pretty impressed by many things I can hear and see) I will not judge until I really tried hard to do what I am interested. (And be sure that would not be searching mistakes but exploring which convincing solutions are possible.)


----------



## jbuhler

Daniel James said:


> [snip]
> So yes its cheaper in the grand scheme of our work but it really comes down to who this is for? If you are a beginner you are so much better off getting Kontakt 6 full. You get a full sampler which has incredible support, you get a full orchestral library to get you started, you have ethnic instruments, choir, band, organs....the works. If you are a professional you probably already have all of these instruments many times over and in most situations, have better options already.
> 
> Thats one of the problems with going wide rather than focused in scope, you end up with lots of 'good' patches rather than any 'awesome' patches, like you would get from a dedicated library. And thats the problem also with this library for me personally, if its aimed at beginners then its too expensive as they have cheaper more content rich options out there, if its for pros they already have stuff that is better and more forward thinking.
> [snip]


But you have like 85 billion libraries, Daniel. The marginal utility of this kind of library for you is minimal. For someone looking for a base library—they may have an ensemble library or a dozen, a few scattered solo instruments, maybe a string library, etc, but no orchestra in parts, and say was considering the Berlin series, SSO, etc. or was looking at sections from various developers, this is an attractively priced, good sounding option, assuming they can get the bugs worked out of the SF plug-in.


----------



## 2chris

The idea of this library is phenomenal.

On a sample library, I totally understand having microphone options is super important. I've heard the saying "the room is it's own instrument" and I get it. What I'm at a loss for, is when is there too many microphone positions? I'm a complete newb to traditional orchestration, and while this library sounds fantastic IMHO for strings, woodwinds, and percussion (...and brass sounds great at low volume) - I'm struggling to understand why it was worth having this many microphones with the strain it creates in extra resources. How can you make a full template with this?

It's almost like Spitfire needs a lite (mic 1/2), regular (more), and mix engineer version (what we have now) of this to accommodate people. Maybe I don't understand?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Orchestral composing always felt completely inaccessible, alien, and out of reach to me until I had access to some instruments that sounded good, gave a sense of how these instruments can be played, and _sounded good_. The Kontakt Factory Library definitely does not fit the bill there...


----------



## synkrotron

2chris said:


> Maybe I don't understand?



I dunno... I think you have to at least watch more of the YouTube videos, "hype" or not, in order to get where Spitfire Audio are coming from with all the spill microphones and such.


----------



## porrasm

Bluemount Score said:


> Still building my FL Studio template, made specifically for BBCSO. The libraries strongest and weakest parts, based on various opinions, are no secret anymore. Still, I have to get this done and start composing to convince myself.


Looking good. Mine is a bit simpler. Since I can't load all the instruments at once I've left empty slots so I can just pick and choose from the remaining unloaded instruments pretty fast. Also I almost never use individual tracks for each instruments, I find it easier to put every intstrument (except percussion) in a single pattern.

Still not finished. I will start using this and writing down every hiccup I encounter with it and then after a week or two I fill fix each of those.


----------



## CT

I am definitely on board with the idea of allowing greater flexibility with what mic positions we download/install. I may find some of the different options useful, but almost certainly don't need to have the Atmos mixes, for example.


----------



## Leslie Fuller

ism said:


> This is such a joy to watch. There’s something in the sound here that somehow feels entirely new, not something that you can approach with SSO or CSS or HW or VSL. Which is what ultimately sells me on Spitfire library after Spitfire librray.
> 
> It’s also kind of an ‘anti-‘ Daniel James review. Neither are remotely ‘objective’, but while this one bubbles along with enthusiasm, immersed in feeling the sheer musicality of the lib, Daniel’s (which I’ve only skimmed) feels like it performs a painstaking technical dissection pointing out each and every technical limitation and flaw in exhaustive detail.
> 
> Both types of review are great to have. But it’s nice to have this kind of review to go alongside it, as I think it captures something essential.



Guy’s videos are required viewing for me!


----------



## dzilizzi

paulthomson said:


> The horns, were crazy loud in the room playing ff. yes they don’t sound like a 12 horn patch, and we haven’t EQd them to sizzle like a trailer lib - that’s super easy though. I might do a vlog on production techniques and show stuff like that.


I, for one, would really love to see how you do this. And any other production techniques you care to share. I really learn a lot just watching your walkthroughs. Thanks!


----------



## bricop

While I wait for support to get back to me, has anyone managed to successfully run BBCSO on a MacBook Pro with 16GB ram. I'm running a template which is around 5-6GB registering in the plugin but showing 12+GB in Logic even although I only have BBCSO on its own.

Everything loads fine but there are so many clicks, pops and long notes not sounding. It plays the beginning of notes then passes until the next one. I can run Kontakt-based templates for full orchestra no problem so it does seem to be a plugin problem.

Any configuration settings gratefully received.


----------



## AndyP

For me BBCSO works in combination with BHCT (like horns). I can currently live well with the limitations, especially as I haven't even figured out the subtleties of the BBCSO.

The performance is absolutely fine on my MacBook, not to mention my other computers, and I think the price is reasonable. I'm sorry for the Windows users who have problems, but I'm sure that will be solved. 

I have some wishes for the player, but that doesn't mean I can't use the library.
And if I only had this library, it wouldn't be a big problem, because I couldn't compare. I would even less pre-stressed to work and certainly fewer weak points.

So far I had just 3 hours with this library and I doubt that I have already found an optimal workflow that would be possible with more time. Nucleus has more limitations, and yet I like this library too.

When I think back to what I used to work with over the years, it's a huge leap in terms of sound, playability and ease of use. EWHO cost me a lot more time to get along with the usage. But it also worked. Patience, friends!

The hype was definitely exaggerated, but you don't have to make the library worse than it is.


----------



## dzilizzi

NoamL said:


> @paulthomson point well made about trailer sounds! Super-trailer-guy Mark Petrie often mentions a plugin called "Xfer OTT." It is a multiband dynamic compressor+expander that can turn anything into a brick. Even light settings will turn brass sustains into a very searing and consistent sound.
> 
> Some Bruckner very quickly sketched using *Spitfire Albion 1 *strings + *Albion 3* brass -
> 
> 
> 
> And now with some Xfer OTT on the brass bus:
> 
> 
> 
> Apocalyptic brass sound! :dodgy:
> 
> Watch out for noisy decays though, just like any compressor.
> 
> PS: Stravinsky once said there are two kinds of music - "the good kind, and Bruckner." Even 100 years ago trailer composers were getting no respect!!!



It is a free plugin. They guys at Xfer make some good synths. 





__





VST Plugins, Synth Presets, Effects, Virtual Instruments, Music


VST Plugins, Synth Presets, Effects, Virtual Instruments, Music Plugins from Pluginboutique




www.pluginboutique.com


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

dzilizzi said:


> I, for one, would really love to see how you do this. And any other production techniques you care to share. I really learn a lot just watching your walkthroughs. Thanks!



For all those who need a more brassy sound and want to try themselves:
For Horns you can use Horns a4 patch, activate Legato+Cuivre simultaneously and apply an EQ similar as shown (ok ok looks like a hell of a boost, but works very nice).
If it sounds too thin: add in the "Mids" microphone in addition to the "Mix 1".
This gives you Horn longs having one or two dynamics higher than what comes out per default.
The end result timbre can be compared to CSB Horns a4 on maximum dynamics.






The downside is if you ride the modwheel down at some point you must drop the cuivre articulation -> going through the dynamics is not as smooth as if it would be a single patch.

This works for the longs. Lets see if I can come up with something for the shorts too.


----------



## L-A Desire

SupremeFist said:


> Honestly I think what's putting some people off is that they've forgotten what a real orchestra sounds like. And even from the evidence of early demos, BBCSO sounds like an orchestra, not like a Frankenstein's monster of massively overhyped individual sections. Of course the latter has become a sound in its own right, but I think SA have been clear all along that this product isn't for that.



Had to chime in, this type of comment... Please no! As usual, trying to divert from the real problems which have been shown in several demos. Yes parts of the library sound incredible, but it just isn't cohesive. This shapes the way one works and thus disturbs creativity.


----------



## dzilizzi

Manuel Stumpf said:


> For all those who need a more brassy sound and want to try themselves:
> For Horns you can use Horns a4 patch, activate Legato+Cuivre simultaneously and apply an EQ similar as shown (ok ok looks like a hell of a boost, but works very nice).
> If it sounds too thin: add in the "Mids" microphone in addition to the "Mix 1".
> This gives you Horn longs having one or two dynamics higher than what comes out per default.
> The end result timbre can be compared to CSB Horns a4 on maximum dynamics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The downside is if you ride the modwheel down at some point you must drop the cuivre articulation -> going through the dynamics is not as smooth as if it would be a single patch.
> 
> This works for the longs. Lets see if I can come up with something for the shorts too.


Thanks! This is useful.


----------



## Denkii

paulthomson said:


> haha!! This sounds great! I’ll have to check that out - not heard of that plug..


It's a staple in EDM and it's easy to fall in love with it.


----------



## Mike Fox

ism said:


> I mean imagine a thread on Jaeger that went on and on about how you can't really do justice to Debussy with it.


This is what confuses me. Audio Imperia did a fine job with telling you exactly what Jaeger was all about and who it was for. That's why there is no thread about Jaeger being unable to do Debussy justice (obviously).

In regards to BBC, I don't think I've ever been so confused by a sample library before. From the marketing hype, to the overwhelming amount of performance complaints/issues, to the mixed opinions of the production value, to the inconsistent perspectives of who this library is and isn't for, as well as BBC's role and intent (something i still don't fully understand), the results and conclusions from users have been confusing at best. It's been difficult for me to get a grip on what BBC actually represents, and its sole purpose in the bottomless sea of sample libraries.

But maybe I'm overthinking it? Maybe the reality is that BBC is nothing more than a conventional orchestral sample library with its unique set of pros and cons, yet still possesses the potential to sound quite beautiful in the right hands, just like any other sample library on the market.

Is BBC the game changer that SA wanted everyone to believe it was? Maybe for some individuals, yes. But across the board?...


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

dzilizzi said:


> I, for one, would really love to see how you do this. And any other production techniques you care to share. I really learn a lot just watching your walkthroughs. Thanks!


Knowing spitfire guys, Paul and Christian in particular are usually scoring to picture and the fact that other spitfire libraries often are considered to be too quiet a first step is to work at proper listening levels. You‘ll never be able to produce and work with highly dynamic material if you are listening on a level in which you can listen to -4 LUFs edm tracks without bleeding ears. In addition consider riding both dynamic and expression like Christian, Paul, homay and Patrice advise in every video.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Mike Fox said:


> But maybe I'm overthinking it? Maybe the reality is that BBC is nothing more than a conventional orchestral sample library with its unique set of pros and cons, yet still possesses the potential to sound quite beautiful in the right hands, just like any other sample library on the market.



That's exactly what it is. I mean really, it's no different than say, EW Hollywood Orchestra Diamond. Just has a different sound, it's own special features, but still boasts a proprietary player. The being said, I love what I hear so far, and I'm probably one of the few that totally dig the GUI. I think it looks sleek, sexy, and functional.


----------



## ism

Mike Fox said:


> Audio Imperia did a fine job with telling you exactly what Jaeger was all about and who it was for. That's why there is no thread about Jaeger being unable to do Debussy justice (obviously).



Yes, they did. And with all respect to the superb work and vision of Audio Imperia - and DJ's very fine video on it - I felt I also grasped instantly that it wasn't for me. 


But what is this library (BBCSO) about? Well that's what's interesting. I think from the very first demo, I've had *some* sense of what its about, though I'm not sure how exactly to put it in words.


And the more demos I hear, the more sense I get of the library. 


But for all the very best libraries I have, I'm still learning just what they're about, and don't expect to stop anytime soon. I just figure out a really amazing effect that can be done with Orchestral swarm last week. And a thing you can do with the solo viola in SsS that absolutely gives me goose bumps. 

And Tundra - while a much simpler library that this, despite have watched all the marketing videos a dozen times tying to get my head around it, I'm still constant surprised to find new dimensions from new pieces I hear that use it. I feel I haven't scratched the surface on understanding what Tundra is about - even discovering the effect the upping close mics can have on the woodwinds with like discovering a whole new library ... so I guess this is also a kind of "confusion" about what the library is about. But in the best possible way. 

Also, did SA actually use the phrase "Game Changer" for this lib? "Most ambition" I remember. But not "game changer", but I remember that the debate of "game changer" vis-a-vis LCO being fun, even if not everyone was ultimately convinced - though I was precisely for this same sense of wholly new musical possibilities that it opened up.


Anyway, not having lib, I have no particular opinions on whether anyone should by this library or another. 


I just think that vi-c threads are more interesting and more useful when they leave room for a sense of musical possibility.





That said, this



Daniel James said:


> you are a beginner you are not making pro-quality mockups for a while. You will be better served long term owning Kontakt 6 and all the freebies and 3rd party support than you would just owning BBCSO.



is just silly. 

But hey - at no point has any demo ever made me think "Hey, you know who would love this - Daniel James". Debussy perhaps (though its hard to say what he might have though of sample libraries), but not Daniel James. 

Not that you could mock up the intricacy of a truly great Debussy piece on this or any other sample library in the forseable future. But there is a quality of sonority here that, I'm not quite sure why, but gives me this feeling of at least a certain kinship with the musical spaces of Debussy. (Whatever that means, it's really just a feeling).


----------



## robgb

Mike Fox said:


> Is BBC the game changer that SA wanted everyone to believe it was? Maybe for some individuals, yes. But across the board?...


Don't they have a marketing specialist at the top of their corporate structure? I could be wrong, but I tend to blame all the hype stuff on him.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I don’t think the library was overhyped. Surely we all know marketing prose when we read it? I’m a big SF fan but I also know a Big Mac doesn’t look as good in real life as it does in the pictures.


----------



## ism

Alex Fraser said:


> Surely we all know marketing prose when we read it? I’m a big SF fan but I also know a Big Mac doesn’t look as good in real life as it does in the pictures.



In fairness, Tundra was even better than the Big Mac in the picture.


----------



## ism

Mike Fox said:


> Is BBC the game changer that SA wanted everyone to believe it was? Maybe for some individuals, yes. But across the board?...




The broader point is that if something has to be game changing for everyone, then nothing is ever game changing, for the very simple reason that we’re not all playing the same game.

Was Jaeger game changing? Sure, absolutely, why shouldn’t it be. Was it game changing for my attempts figure out whether there’s anything in what I love about Debussy that might be brought into a neo-classical / filmic form via sample libraries ... not so much.


----------



## dzilizzi

rocking.xmas.man said:


> Knowing spitfire guys, Paul and Christian in particular are usually scoring to picture and the fact that other spitfire libraries often are considered to be too quiet a first step is to work at proper listening levels. You‘ll never be able to produce and work with highly dynamic material if you are listening on a level in which you can listen to -4 LUFs edm tracks without bleeding ears. In addition consider riding both dynamic and expression like Christian, homay and Patrice advise in every video.


I don't actually listen at a high level. I just am interested in learning how to use these libraries to make stuff that sounds good.


----------



## Joel Ewers

Wolfie2112 said:


> That's exactly what it is. I mean really, it's no different than say, EW Hollywood Orchestra Diamond. Just has a different sound, it's own special features, but still boasts a proprietary player. The being said, I love what I hear so far, and I'm probably one of the few that totally dig the GUI. I think it looks sleek, sexy, and functional.



+1 on the GUI. It just clicked with me right away. I like that it has room to breathe.


----------



## Mike Fox

ism said:


> Yes, they did. And with all respect to the superb work and vision Audio Imperia - and DJ's very fine video on it - I felt I also grasped instantly that it wasn't for me.
> 
> 
> But what is this library about? Well that's what's interesting. I think from the very first demo, I've had *some* sense of what its about, though I'm not sure how exactly to put it in words.
> 
> 
> And the more demos I hear, the more sense I get of the library.
> 
> 
> But for all the very best libraries I have, I'm still learning just what they're about, and don't expect to stop anytime soon. I just figure out a really amazing effect that can be done with Orchestral swarm last week. And a think you can do with the solo violin that absolutely gives me goose bumps since then.
> 
> And Tundra - while a much simpler library that this, despite have watching all the marketing videos a dozen times tying to get my head around it, I'm still constant surprised to find new dimensions new pieces I hear that use it, I feel I haven't scratched the surface on understanding what Tundra is about - even discovering the effect the upping close mics can have on the woodwinds with like discovering a whole new library ... so I guess this is also a kind of "confusion" about what the library is about. But in the best possible way.
> 
> Also, did SA actually use the phrase "Game Changer" for this lib? "Most ambition" I remember. But not "game changer", but I remember that the debate of "game changer" vis-a-vis LCO being fun, even if not everyone was ultimately convinced - though I was precisely for this same sense of wholly new musical possibilities that it opened up.
> 
> 
> Anyway, not having lib, I have no particular opinions on whether anyone should by this library or another.
> 
> 
> I just think that vi-c threads are more interesting and more useful when they leave room for a sense of musical possibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That said, this
> 
> 
> 
> is just silly.
> 
> But hey - at no point has any demo ever made me think "Hey, you know who would love this - Daniel James". Debussy perhaps (though its hard to say what he might have though of sample libraries), but not Daniel James.
> 
> Not that you could mock up the intricacy of a truly great Debussy piece on this or any other sample library in the forseable future. But there is a quality of sonority here that, I'm not quite sure why, but gives me this feeling of at least a certain kinship with the musical spaces of Debussy. (Whatever that means, it's really just a feeling).



Taken from the SA website on the main BBC page...

“TO HAVE ALL I NEED AT MY FINGERTIPS IN ONE SINGLE PLUGIN IS A GAME CHANGER.”

— CHRISTIAN HENSON, SPITFIRE AUDIO FOUNDER


----------



## SupremeFist

L-A Desire said:


> Had to chime in, this type of comment... Please no! As usual, trying to divert from the real problems which have been shown in several demos. Yes parts of the library sound incredible, but it just isn't cohesive. This shapes the way one works and thus disturbs creativity.


Hey I've no doubt it has problems and bugs, like 1.0 of anything, but the one thing it does sound is cohesive. That's pretty much its USP as far as I can tell from listening even to hastily made demos.


----------



## ism

Mike Fox said:


> Taken from the SA website on the main BBC page...
> 
> “TO HAVE ALL I NEED AT MY FINGERTIPS IN ONE SINGLE PLUGIN IS A GAME CHANGER.”
> 
> — CHRISTIAN HENSON, SPITFIRE AUDIO FOUNDER



Christian does like that phrase.


----------



## Mike Fox

ism said:


> Yes, they did. And with all respect to the superb work and vision of Audio Imperia - and DJ's very fine video on it - I felt I also grasped instantly that it wasn't for me.
> 
> 
> But what is this library (BBCSO) about? Well that's what's interesting. I think from the very first demo, I've had *some* sense of what its about, though I'm not sure how exactly to put it in words.
> 
> 
> And the more demos I hear, the more sense I get of the library.
> 
> 
> But for all the very best libraries I have, I'm still learning just what they're about, and don't expect to stop anytime soon. I just figure out a really amazing effect that can be done with Orchestral swarm last week. And a thing you can do with the solo viola in SsS that absolutely gives me goose bumps.
> 
> And Tundra - while a much simpler library that this, despite have watched all the marketing videos a dozen times tying to get my head around it, I'm still constant surprised to find new dimensions from new pieces I hear that use it. I feel I haven't scratched the surface on understanding what Tundra is about - even discovering the effect the upping close mics can have on the woodwinds with like discovering a whole new library ... so I guess this is also a kind of "confusion" about what the library is about. But in the best possible way.
> 
> Also, did SA actually use the phrase "Game Changer" for this lib? "Most ambition" I remember. But not "game changer", but I remember that the debate of "game changer" vis-a-vis LCO being fun, even if not everyone was ultimately convinced - though I was precisely for this same sense of wholly new musical possibilities that it opened up.
> 
> 
> Anyway, not having lib, I have no particular opinions on whether anyone should by this library or another.
> 
> 
> I just think that vi-c threads are more interesting and more useful when they leave room for a sense of musical possibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That said, this
> 
> 
> 
> is just silly.
> 
> But hey - at no point has any demo ever made me think "Hey, you know who would love this - Daniel James". Debussy perhaps (though its hard to say what he might have though of sample libraries), but not Daniel James.
> 
> Not that you could mock up the intricacy of a truly great Debussy piece on this or any other sample library in the forseable future. But there is a quality of sonority here that, I'm not quite sure why, but gives me this feeling of at least a certain kinship with the musical spaces of Debussy. (Whatever that means, it's really just a feeling).


Btw, great point on learning your libraries. It's always nice to discover a new use for something that's been collecting dust.


----------



## SupremeFist

In reply to Daniel James's apparently now deleted post: if by "beginner" we mean someone who is literally a beginner at making music with virtual instruments, then they're not even going to be looking at British Broadcasting Corporation Symphony Orchestra, and even Kontakt is overkill: they can start with Garageband. But if by "beginner" we mean someone with musical and computer-composing experience who doesn't yet have a full orchestral library, then it is still a terrible idea to start with something substandard like Kontakt's orchestral stuff, because you'll be forced into bad habits to work around its glaring limitations.


----------



## ism

Mike Fox said:


> Btw, great point on learning your libraries. It's always nice to discover a new use for something that's been collecting dust.



It’s also part of why I’m not buying this one right away - all the riches of game changes still to be discovered in all the library I bought last year calls for a bit of a pause in all game changing purchasing. I did go a bit crazy with sample libraries last year to be honest. (Though I regret nothing)


----------



## Mike Fox

Alex Fraser said:


> I’m a big SF fan but I also know a Big Mac doesn’t look as good in real life as it does in the pictures.



You have no idea how disappointed I was when i first learned that.


----------



## Patrick.K

Pontus Rufelt said:


> for me BBCSO is looking like it’ll be another lovely color in the palette. It doesn’t cover all bases but does some things very well. It particularly comes together very nicely, sounding lush and full, when putting together all the sections of the orchestra, something a lot of other orchestral libraries don’t really offer the same way.
> 
> my doodling continues!



Very nice,
It reminds me of the paintings of John Constable who was a 18 th century landscape painter .


----------



## SupremeFist

Patrick9152 said:


> Excuse me, but I think it's a mistake to think that .
> Think about the soundtrack of the film Metropolis in 1927, where Gottfried Huppertz used a symphonic orchestra, or Bernard Herrmann for the Alfred Hitchcock movies, it's still a great orchestra formation ... It's all about talent again of the composer, his ability to orchestrate to find the right colors, as a painter would.
> BBCSO is only a perfectible tool probably, like other libraries.
> A real orchestra is too, and let's not forget the conductor who also gives his vision of the score.


It's almost like any sampled orchestra will only sound as good or bad as the orchestrations the user feeds it...


----------



## Zedcars

paulthomson said:


> Hi Erik,
> 
> The team are on it. We'll get you up and running as quickly as humanly possible!
> 
> 
> Just for balance to some of the perception here - we've got a ton of PC users with no problems. I'm sure once we've isolated whatever is going wrong with some users that will feed through to performance gains for other users as well. We have PC users in the teams here at SF. and a ton of test rigs. Mac and PC. There are many many variables on the PC side that can lead to some unforeseen problems - we have to then find whats causing these and code around it. We have an incredibly talented software team.
> 
> Its entirely my fault that some of the WW/Brass have 'extended' legato functionality but not all. This was not supposed to be in v1.0 - as the patches take a long time to program and perfect. They are super super complex under the hood to allow for multiple dynamics, non vib and vib, fast playing, and so on. However I got the bit between my teeth when I heard Andy's fantastic string legatos - and I just wanted to try and get thru as many as possible before the release.
> 
> I guess rather than 'unfinished' you've got part of what was supposed to be a big free update in the launch version.. I guess that can easily confuse the issue so thats mea culpa.. We've actually refined the process some as well so rest assured that these are being worked on and we'll get them to you as soon as we can.
> 
> There's also a ton of extra material we'll be releasing but I'm not going to announce all of that as I want that to be a welcome addition and nice surprise when it lands.
> 
> Couple of general points, before I get back to work!! If you keep an eye on the Library Manager you'll see we are constantly listening and fixing things, updating libraries, across the board. This won't change of course. Not all updates are like the Solo Strings Total Performance patches - some are more subtle, but every library gets the care and attention - we are in a constant state of updating things in a cycle. Nothing is abandonware.
> 
> there’s a huuuuge HZ strings update waiting to drop...
> 
> Also - theres a reason we devs don't do "comparison" videos of each others products. One - it would be super disrespectful to a bunch of really talented people - some of whom we are delighted to count as friends - a little friendly rivalry never hurt anyone! - but the main reason, is that even beyond the well accepted fact that you can't just copy paste midi data from one library to another and expect it to sound good, each library is like an instrument you have to learn: but also, its incredibly easy to make something sound bad - and then hone in on that. It would be deeply unfair.
> 
> I have a huge respect for the guys at OT, Cinematic, EW, Cinesamples, Embertone and so on. We're journeyfolk, crazy geeks on a passionate drive to make stuff that people can use to be creative. Everyone makes great products that have uses - but you can make all of them sound bad if you want to. What would be the point of that?!! I want all these guys to do well - theres plenty of room for different takes on the same fundamental idea. We're all employing musicians and keeping studios busy.
> 
> Anyways - just a few thoughts!! back to work!!!
> 
> P


When you’ve finished your WW editing, please could you run as an independent to be our next Prime Minister? Having respect for your rivals is sadly missing in politics right now. Of course, it helps if they have something worth respecting.

Sorry to get political.

I’m really enjoying the library so far. The strings are my favourite part.


----------



## SupremeFist

Zedcars said:


> When you’ve finished your WW editing, please could you run as an independent to be our next Prime Minister? Having respect for your rivals is sadly missing in politics right now. Of course, it helps if they have something worth respecting.
> 
> Sorry to get political.
> 
> I’m really enjoyed the library so far. The strings are my favourite part.


Unfortunately this isn't possible in our system, where technically one votes only for one's local MP. :( But I have no doubt Paul would do a better job than any of the existing candidates...


----------



## MarcHedenberg

Manuel Stumpf said:


> For all those who need a more brassy sound and want to try themselves:
> For Horns you can use Horns a4 patch, activate Legato+Cuivre simultaneously and apply an EQ similar as shown (ok ok looks like a hell of a boost, but works very nice).
> If it sounds too thin: add in the "Mids" microphone in addition to the "Mix 1".
> This gives you Horn longs having one or two dynamics higher than what comes out per default.
> The end result timbre can be compared to CSB Horns a4 on maximum dynamics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The downside is if you ride the modwheel down at some point you must drop the cuivre articulation -> going through the dynamics is not as smooth as if it would be a single patch.
> 
> This works for the longs. Lets see if I can come up with something for the shorts too.



How do you activate two articulations at once?


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

MarcHedenberg said:


> How do you activate two articulations at once?


Holding shift while clicking it.


----------



## Patrick.K

SupremeFist said:


> Honestly I think what's putting some people off is that they've forgotten what a real orchestra sounds like. And even from the evidence of early demos, BBCSO sounds like an orchestra, not like a Frankenstein's monster of massively overhyped individual sections. Of course the latter has become a sound in its own right, but I think SA have been clear all along that this product isn't for that.


Well done ! Exactly what I already said and what I think.
Many should go to the concert to listen to a real orchestra !.
I read a lot of the threads, and I think it's often dismaying, discouraging .


----------



## Zedcars

SupremeFist said:


> Unfortunately this isn't possible in our system, where technically one votes only for one's local MP. :( But I have no doubt Paul would do a better job than any of the existing candidates...


What a shame. The system needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. It’s terribly flawed.


----------



## cqd

Zedcars said:


> What a shame. The system needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. It’s terribly flawed.



Is that British Parliamentary democracy you're talking about?, or the spitfire player?


----------



## rsg22

Anyone using BBC SO with Digital Performer?


----------



## Zedcars

cqd said:


> Is that British Parlimentary democracy you're talking about?, or the spitfire player?


Oh no, the British Parliamentary system! 

The Player is baby that needs to be nurtured so it can grow into a handsome young man, whereas our parliament is an old crusty dithering fool who doesn’t know his arse from his elbow!


----------



## Patrick.K

rocking.xmas.man said:


> Knowing spitfire guys, Paul and Christian in particular are usually scoring to picture and the fact that other spitfire libraries often are considered to be too quiet a first step is to work at proper listening levels. You‘ll never be able to produce and work with highly dynamic material if you are listening on a level in which you can listen to -4 LUFs edm tracks without bleeding ears. In addition consider riding both dynamic and expression like Christian, homay and Patrice advise in every video.


I totally agree...
Listening to high-level music can damage ears and perception. I've never felt the walls vibrate during a concert, even with 80 musicians !.


----------



## Patrick.K

Mike Fox said:


> Would love to see how BBC performs in the modern/fast paced/intense horror or action genre. Would anyone be willing to post something in that vein, using BBC only? No other libs.


Excuse me, but I think it's a mistake to think that .
Think about the soundtrack of the film Metropolis in 1927, where Gottfried Huppertz used a symphonic orchestra, or Bernard Herrmann for the Alfred Hitchcock movies, it's still a great orchestra formation ... It's all about talent again of the composer, his ability to orchestrate to find the right colors, as a painter would.
BBCSO is only a perfectible tool probably, like other libraries.
A real orchestra is too, and let's not forget the conductor who also gives his vision of the score.


----------



## AEF

I’m really curious for any opinions/demos on how easy it is to blend with other libraries.


----------



## MaxOctane

ism said:


> But hey - at no point has any demo ever made me think "Hey, you know who would love this - Daniel James". Debussy perhaps (though its hard to say what he might have though of sample libraries), but not Daniel James.



Jaeger would obviously be terrible for early Debussy (what most people associate him with), but it would fit in with his later works:


----------



## Patrick.K

SupremeFist said:


> It's almost like any sampled orchestra will only sound as good or bad as the orchestrations the user feeds it...


I agree


----------



## haus.media

Such a strange question.....

Is anyone else not getting audio at all from the BBC plugin? I have the library on the purchased Spitfire SSD drive. I load the plugin up on a software instrument track in Logic and....nothing. I can see all the presets and select them but nothing is making noise...much less music. I have routing correct, other VI's work (Miroslav, SF Labs etc...) just no audio from the BBC plug in. I have tried on two separate machines and used the Spitfire Audio app to "repair" the libraries and the plug in.

Help. TIA.


----------



## cqd

Did you check if mics are up?


----------



## Patrick.K

L-A Desire said:


> Had to chime in, this type of comment... Please no! As usual, trying to divert from the real problems which have been shown in several demos. Yes parts of the library sound incredible, but it just isn't cohesive. This shapes the way one works and thus disturbs creativity.


Or especially disrupts non-creativity, so we look for reasons,it's the fault of legatos, or there are not enough layers , the modwheel is not progressive enought, lack of FF and so on...
So we buy another library, and yet another ... and finally, we're not more creative ... let's be honest with us even !.


----------



## sostenuto

jbuhler said:


> But you have like 85 billion libraries, Daniel. The marginal utility of this kind of library for you is minimal. For someone looking for a base library—they may have an ensemble library or a dozen, a few scattered solo instruments, maybe a string library, etc, but no orchestra in parts, and say was considering the Berlin series, SSO, etc. or was looking at sections from various developers, this is an attractively priced, good sounding option, assuming they can get the bugs worked out of the SF plug-in.



..... and _ '_*.. assuming they can get the bugs worked out of the SF plug-in*_' is one key point I noted in DJ(s) video intro. Heckuva library for me, even with large, diverse, existing orchestral content.
Still missing one, integrated, top-tier, all-inclusive Orch lib.

Kontakt 6 capabilities remain impressive, and still hesitant to move away ........


----------



## haus.media

cqd said:


> Did you check if mics are up?


Mix 1 is at 100% and the rest of the mics are not adjustable. Neither is Mix 1. And the slider buttons below the mics and mixes are "dead". They cannot be slid to on. They are all in the off position now (assuming to the left is off).


----------



## Mike Fox

Patrick9152 said:


> Excuse me, but I think it's a mistake to think that .
> Think about the soundtrack of the film Metropolis in 1927, where Gottfried Huppertz used a symphonic orchestra, or Bernard Herrmann for the Alfred Hitchcock movies, it's still a great orchestra formation ... It's all about talent again of the composer, his ability to orchestrate to find the right colors, as a painter would.
> BBCSO is only a perfectible tool probably, like other libraries.
> A real orchestra is too, and let's not forget the conductor who also gives his vision of the score.


Not sure i follow. Are you saying that the conventional nature of BBC is the cause of it not being able to perform something edgy or intense?


----------



## haus.media

haus.media said:


> Mix 1 is at 100% and the rest of the mics are not adjustable. Neither is Mix 1. And the slider buttons below the mics and mixes are "dead". They cannot be slid to on. They are all in the off position now (assuming to the left is off).


I played with the "advanced" and "global" switches and they had no effect but when I went back to both being in the on position, now the tree mic is at 100% and Mix 1 is all the way down. And all mics/mixes are still not adjustable.


----------



## mistermister

haus.media said:


> I played with the "advanced" and "global" switches and they had no effect but when I went back to both being in the on position, now the tree mic is at 100% and Mix 1 is all the way down. And all mics/mixes are still not adjustable.


That sounds like it's not finding the samples. Have you moved the library (or change the drive name/letter) since first installing?


----------



## Patrick.K

Mike Fox said:


> Not sure i follow. Are you saying that the conventional nature of BBC is the cause of it not being able to perform something edgy or intense?


No, I especially want to talk about the incapacity of the one who uses BBCSO, by a lack of knowledge of the orchestration.


----------



## schrodinger1612

Now that I’ve upgraded my laptop, I’m trying to decide between this and the Vienna Special Edition Bundle


----------



## vdk-john

Just found this first impressions video by Joe Rodwell; haven't watched it yet


----------



## jononotbono

christianhenson said:


> If Guy became a youtuber he'd have me as a subscriber, thanks for such a positive first look:




Guy is such an amazing person and composer. Great to see someone actually writing music with the BBCSO. 

Also, VERY excited about the incoming update to HZS!


----------



## PerryD

Ha! I dare anyone (not that you would want to) to offer the BBC Orchestra $1,000 to record this crap arrangement. It's a wonderful age, where we can invite an orchestra into a tiny room and make them play any silly thing that comes to mind. Sleighbells at the end were for you, zedcars.


----------



## haus.media

mistermister said:


> That sounds like it's not finding the samples. Have you moved the library (or change the drive name/letter) since first installing?


That would be my sense as well, I did download the libraries before I received my SSD, but I did not fire up the plugin with the downloaded library. I only tried to use once I received the SSD. And the SF audio app has the correct drive as being designated as the library drive and it is pointed to that drive as such. I'd wipe and reinstall from the ground up but I don't see an option for that in the SF audio app. I have had to "repair" the libraries (and the plugin) a couple of times as I got an red exclamation mark warning that led to an "Error #3" message. 

I have submitted a ticket to SF with no response yet.

Thx.

J


----------



## Mike Fox

Patrick9152 said:


> No, I especially want to talk about the incapacity of the one who uses BBCSO, by a lack of knowledge of the orchestration.


"Excuse me, but I think it's a mistake to think that." , is what you wrote in response to my request to hear something in an intense horror or action fashion. 

What exactly is the "mistake"???


----------



## Iostream

One thing this library is very good for, is a collaborative work environment. You have one library that has a decent number of articulations, sections + solo, etc. I may have 10 different string libraries, while others I collaborate with have only 2 or 3 and not the ones I have. Even if the final print was going to be done with different libraries, or have other bits mixed in, it is very easy to share work with BBC SO, and know they can see the full picture, without having to send stems back and forth. Sure, I could do something similar with one of the sketch libraries, but I wouldn't have the level of detail there in the midi. Buying 1 library, at under $1K seems fairly reasonable for this endeavor, compared to sending out track midi and hoping it is fairly compatible with the libraries they have on hand.

Outside of that, I think it to be a decent value for the money, particularly at the intro price. I mean, you can get EW Hollywood Orchestra for less, but this is much easier to work with after a few hours with it compared to years with HW. If you want to stick with Kontakt libraries, it seems to be either sketch libraries for less money and less control, or several individual libraries to cover the bases at a much higher cost, with a different workflow for each of them. From a workflow standpoint, I can see myself starting an awful lot of projects in BBCSO. While the final result might include other libraries, I will get there more quickly. And there are many places where BBCSO shines, so it will likely end up in the final print.

I am not saying it is the only library you would ever buy, my existing libraries will continue to get a good bit of use, and I am sure I will continue to buy other libraries. But taken for what it is, I am mostly satisfied. Hopefully the updates wipe out the technical issues.


----------



## mistermister

haus.media said:


> That would be my sense as well, I did download the libraries before I received my SSD, but I did not fire up the plugin with the downloaded library. I only tried to use once I received the SSD. And the SF audio app has the correct drive as being designated as the library drive and it is pointed to that drive as such. I'd wipe and reinstall from the ground up but I don't see an option for that in the SF audio app. I have had to "repair" the libraries (and the plugin) a couple of times as I got an red exclamation mark warning that led to an "Error #3" message.
> 
> I have submitted a ticket to SF with no response yet.
> 
> Thx.
> 
> J


Apologies if you already tried, but it might be worth trying the 'Locate' feature (found from the menu when you click the small white cog icon on the BBC Symphony Orchestra panel in the Library manager).


----------



## germancomponist

AEF said:


> My issue is it still doesnt sound like a real orchestra. So the argument that the fewer dynamic layers somehow makes it more real doesnt hold water for me.


No sample library sounds like a real orchestra. The reason why we record it when we need a real orchestra. But still, this library and many others do sound so very very good, if u ask me.


----------



## haus.media

mistermister said:


> Apologies if you already tried, but it might be worth trying the 'Locate' feature (found from the menu when you click the small white cog icon on the BBC Symphony Orchestra panel in the Library manager).


Well, somehow I got it working. I deleted the plug ins from their respective folders on one machine and then copied them from a second machine (which was not working as well). Now it is working. I will now try to go and delete the plug ins from the second machine and copy them back. It shouldn't be this hard. And yes, I had tried the locate and repair options, all to no avail. Thank you for the assistance though!


----------



## AEF

germancomponist said:


> No sample library sounds like a real orchestra. The reason why we record it when we need a real orchestra. But still, this library and many others do sound so very very good, if u ask me.



exactly, but there are degrees of realism. the notion that bc a library has few dynamic layers it makes said library somehow more realistic is absurd. that is what I was commenting on.

it does sound great. but nothing better than anyone else and none of the sections themselves are standouts. the sum is greater than its parts, and is still a sum that is disappointingly average. 

the writing was on the wall when SF was repeatedly asked about the dynamic layers of the library and it was crickets. 

also, if you were to pair the library down to say the three mics, its not even a large library content wise.


----------



## Zero&One

AEF said:


> it does sound great. but nothing better than anyone else and none of the sections themselves are standouts. the sum is greater than its parts, and is still a sum that is disappointingly average.



I totally disagree that it's average.
How long have you had to explore the library, each articulation and mics?


----------



## AEF

James H said:


> I totally disagree that it's average.
> How long have you had to explore the library, each articulation and mics?



what section is above average? I fail to see how this library is anything but a standard fair library in 2019.


----------



## Zero&One

AEF said:


> what section is above average? I fail to see how this library is anything but a standard fair library in 2019.



I'm just asking how long have you used it for?


----------



## chocobitz825

AEF said:


> exactly, but there are degrees of realism. the notion that bc a library has few dynamic layers it makes said library somehow more realistic is absurd. that is what I was commenting on.
> 
> it does sound great. but nothing better than anyone else and none of the sections themselves are standouts. the sum is greater than its parts, and is still a sum that is disappointingly average.
> 
> the writing was on the wall when SF was repeatedly asked about the dynamic layers of the library and it was crickets.
> 
> also, if you were to pair the library down to say the three mics, its not even a large library content wise.




Completely agree. It is not a bad library, but its like the luxury version of Amadeus. Its fine at what it does, but not groundbreaking at all. I’m not even sure why they chose to use their player for this one, unless they have plans down the line for bigger things that Kontakt cant do. Its great strength is the consistency between all of its parts put together, but none of the sections are so great that i would use them in place of more focused libraries. The brand loyalty and fever over spitfire in this case is on par with the kind people acuse apple users of. It’s just a good product. Isn’t that good enough?


----------



## gpax

vdk-john said:


> Just found this first impressions video by Joe Rodwell; haven't watched it yet



I was spooked when Logic suddenly turned to Abelton Live at 2:00, while he was commenting on load times, then it became Logic again, inexplicably. Edit: it’s at the 1:53 mark.


----------



## gtrwll

My experience with the library has been a bit of a rollercoaster, from the initial enthusiasm to a disappointment over the technical issues on my W10 system, over to finding a middle ground that's working on my system and getting to actually compose with it. That's where the magic happens IMO, because it's quite relieving to just add instruments to the mix and having blend in right from the start instead of processing them each differently to get them sit together in the mix. My skills with mixing don't allow me to get a sound so cohesive and together with using different libraries for different sections. Trying out single instruments one by one won't give you this experience - composing a piece will. Now I believe I can concentrate on honing my orchestration skills instead of mixing skills.


----------



## Saigen

gtrwll said:


> My experience with the library has been a bit of a rollercoaster, from the initial enthusiasm to a disappointment over the technical issues on my W10 system, over to finding a middle ground that's working on my system and getting to actually compose with it.


Care to share this "middle ground" you discovered? I'd really like to start as well!


----------



## gtrwll

Saigen said:


> Care to share this "middle ground" you discovered? I'd really like to start as well!



Sure. For the piece I composed the other day I was using a preload size of 20000 and the default stream buffer size 65536. Only the needed articulations loaded (mostly legatos or longs, pizzicato and sul tasto, 1 or 2 depending on the instrument) and mainly just the Mix1 mic loaded. Winds had the ambient mic loaded as well, and marimba and timpani close mics. I added the spill mics when I had finished the composition, and froze tracks as I went on. Not ideal, but workable.

However, the support from Spitfire suggested trying out preload size 7000 or 8000 and stream buffer size of 250000, so I'm testing that out at the moment, if it would improve the performance on my setup.

Hope this helps!


----------



## gpax

gtrwll said:


> My experience with the library has been a bit of a rollercoaster, from the initial enthusiasm to a disappointment over the technical issues on my W10 system, over to finding a middle ground that's working on my system and getting to actually compose with it. That's where the magic happens IMO, because it's quite relieving to just add instruments to the mix and having blend in right from the start instead of processing them each differently to get them sit together in the mix. My skills with mixing don't allow me to get a sound so cohesive and together with using different libraries for different sections. Trying out single instruments one by one won't give you this experience - composing a piece will. Now I believe I can concentrate on honing my orchestration skills instead of mixing skills.


May I say that I regret that this experience has been mixed for you and others, given what you also stated about having a glimpse of its potential through a middle ground workflow. I applaud your tempered posts, though hope that SA indulging your patience does not have to be prolonged.

I agree with your assessment of the library itself, and of it’s cohesive orchestral flow and space. I had no qualms (and offer no justifications) pre-ordering after exhausting what information SA offered online, my years of mixing disparate libraries as I compose needing a creative reprieve that was more than just as sketching tool. My background in musical theatre and composing for stage/choreographed works perhaps was waiting for this, lol. 

With respect to the mics (and more magic that happens), I think there are still forthcoming discussions about how nuanced some of these are, relative to the character of certain instruments. The bassoon is one such instrument/mic combo I explored this past weekend. I realize some are speaking of theses mics as entire arrays, whereas I’m seeing judicious use in specific solo and ensemble contexts, to pull out woodiness and/or resonance in the space.

Greg


----------



## christianhenson

Whilst there are trials and tribulations it is with great pride for me to present this.... (oh and sorry for referring to this place as grumpy).


----------



## vdk-john

gpax said:


> I was spooked when Logic suddenly turned to Abelton Live at 2:00, while he was commenting on load times, then it became Logic again, inexplicably. Edit: it’s at the 1:53 mark.



Haha yes,
Same here. Then I realised he probably just had it open in the background but I had to go back in the video and check a couple of times 😅


----------



## Zero&One

Nice video Christian thanks, always interesting to see the other side of the launch. Congratulations on a massive achievement.

Really enjoying this average product.
But that’s probably a subliminal implanted thought into my ‘Apple like’ brain.
As there’s too many vultures circling this thread I’m bowing out of it. #KeepBeingAverage


----------



## synkrotron

James H said:


> I’m bowing out of it



Noooooo! We have to hit 10,000 posts before Christmas!


----------



## redlester

synkrotron said:


> Noooooo! We have to hit 10,000 posts before Christmas!


----------



## vdk-john

synkrotron said:


> We have to hit 10,000 posts before Christmas!



And... This is just the beginning!

(Sorry, couldn't help it)


----------



## IvanP

chocobitz825 said:


> Completely agree. It is not a bad library, but its like the luxury version of Amadeus. Its fine at what it does, but not groundbreaking at all. I’m not even sure why they chose to use their player for this one, unless they have plans down the line for bigger things that Kontakt cant do. Its great strength is the consistency between all of its parts put together, but none of the sections are so great that i would use them in place of more focused libraries. The brand loyalty and fever over spitfire in this case is on par with the kind people acuse apple users of. It’s just a good product. Isn’t that good enough?




I do think it is groundbreaking in the 3Dimensionality of it. As someone who usually work with both Concert and recording orchestras, It's the 1st time I ever have the feeling of getting that "raw live" sound out of the box. This hasn't been achieved by any commercial library available before. And I only tested a few mics here and there, but there's a live feeling, orchestral balance and cohesion that I haven't found before and make me giggle every single time.

I do agree that the corners cut are tricky and diminish the global usability of the library in terms of using ONLY the library for pro work. I am definitely missing dynamic layers to be able to achieve the same level of expression from my usual Template.

But maybe there's an expansion plan in short-medium term. Cinesamples did exactly that on the Brass (Core VS Pro) by adding more legato and layers. Why wouldn't it be possible to do it as well?


----------



## Alex Fraser

James H said:


> Nice video Christian thanks, always interesting to see the other side of the launch. Congratulations on a massive achievement.
> 
> Really enjoying this average product.
> But that’s probably a subliminal implanted thought into my ‘Apple like’ brain.
> As there’s too many vultures circling this thread I’m bowing out of it. #KeepBeingAverage


No James, we won't let you leave. You've been in here too long. Before even chocolate. We'll just keep tagging you and dragging you back in.


----------



## Simon Ravn

I know I posted earlier that I am gonna pass this... but I am so damn interested in seeing what I can do with it, how it works for me, that I am thinking back and forth whether I should pull the trigger anyway haha!

I know the legato will probably annoy the hell out of me. And in some demos the library sounds INSANELY out of tune, and also I think it sounds pretty mono-ish and not very wide soundstage-wise. And oh, a lot of swelling going on in the longs of strings, flutes etc. that are probably baked into the samples (the natural way to play when you play the FIRST note is to start off gently and build up to a louder dynamic). And obviously that doesn't work for samples, since you are supposed to do that dynamic work yourself with samples that are more or less "flat". So I hear a gazillion problems. But I am still interested in seeing if I might get at least SOME good patches to work with and if I can make it sound wider than all the demos I hear by adding reverb, panning and choosing mics differently.

I just wish ONE demo would convince me before that intro period runs out


----------



## Alex Fraser

Here are my unsolicited-thoughts-that-no-one-asked-for on the library.

As far as I can see, the BBCSO promises three things:

To faithfully deliver the classical sound of the BBCSO playing at Maida Vale.
A whole bunch of signal options to get the best out of point 1.
To deliver an "instant" full orchestra with a baked in cohesiveness and ready-made soundstage.
It's that last point that feel is most relevant. Maybe it's because of Paul and Christian's background as media composers that Spitfire products seem to be all about "rapid deployability." Everything from Albion upwards is designed around a "mic faders up and GO!" mentality. Less fiddling. Production tools for those who want to get writing quickly where the sound and detail is already built in.

I think BBCSO could be better thought of as "Albion Complete Orchestra" rather than something VSL would release. It looks to be a sharp tool for delivering a great sounding orchestral cue in devastatingly quick time. Bring those JJ mixes up and GO. And for those who want to craft the sound further, there's a zillion or so mics to choose from. That we're hearing forum members writing detailed cues within hours of release is testament to this.

I think that complaints about dynamic layers and the like perhaps miss the point of what this library is about. Spitfire already offer the SSO if details like that are your bag - at increased cost of course. If you've been following the thread since the start, you'll know that the forum brain trust ruled out 20 round robins early on based on the stated library size vs mics and instruments.

I've heard enough from the BBCSO to know that it's capable of delivering an amazing range of orchestral cues. The built in sound and cohesiveness is something that people like myself will take any day over mix and matching multiple products for greater detail, at the expense of usability.

And lest we forget..this library includes the leaders too..
A


----------



## bricop

I'd be interested to hear from people with experience of building Sibelius soundsets as to whether or not you think building one for BBCSO would be a worthwhile endeavour? The Sibelius Soundset Project seems pretty dormant at the moment so looks like it might be a DIY project for someone with the necessary skills.

I migrate constantly between Sibelius and Logic but I have to admit that when writing contemporary classical orchestral music I tend to compose on Sibelius but when working in film, I prefer to compose directly into Logic X (and maybe work some things out in Sibelius first). Since my priority is completing a 30-minute orchestral piece for my composition PhD portfolio workflow is of the utmost importance to me. I had hoped to develop some DAW fluency so that I could render a BBCSO performance of the piece so am always faced with the dilemma of either working solely in Sibelius with Noteperformer, exporting from Sibelius to Logic then trying to create a BBCSO performance or lastly, try to somehow connect Sibelius with BBCSO through a soundset or rewiring to Logic. 

I'd love to hear the community's view on solving these workflow issues.


----------



## Loïc D

Alex Fraser said:


> Here are my unsolicited-thoughts-that-no-one-asked-for on the library.
> 
> As far as I can see, the BBCSO promises three things:
> 
> To faithfully deliver the classical sound of the BBCSO playing at Maida Vale.
> A whole bunch of signal options to get the best out of point 1.
> To deliver an "instant" full orchestra with a baked in cohesiveness and ready-made soundstage.
> It's that last point that feel is most relevant. Maybe it's because of Paul and Christian's background as media composers that Spitfire products seem to be all about "rapid deployability." Everything from Albion upwards is designed around a "mic faders up and GO!" mentality. Less fiddling. Production tools for those who want to get writing quickly where the sound and detail is already built in.
> 
> I think BBCSO could be better thought of as "Albion Complete Orchestra" rather than something VSL would release. It looks to be a sharp tool for delivering a great sounding orchestral cue in devastatingly quick time. Bring those JJ mixes up and GO. And for those who want to craft the sound further, there's a zillion or so mics to choose from. That we're hearing forum members writing detailed cues within hours of release is testament to this.
> 
> I think that complaints about dynamic layers and the like perhaps miss the point of what this library is about. Spitfire already offer the SSO if details like that are your bag - at increased cost of course. If you've been following the thread since the start, you'll know that the forum brain trust ruled out 20 round robins early on based on the stated library size vs mics and instruments.
> 
> I've heard enough from the BBCSO to know that it's capable of delivering an amazing range of orchestral cues. The built in sound and cohesiveness is something that people like myself will take any day over mix and matching multiple products for greater detail, at the expense of usability.
> 
> And lest we forget..this library includes the leaders too..
> A



Can't agree more.
This is not made for surgical/classical mockups, this product aims at delivery efficiency.

I'd say - bugs aside - that they hit the target : Guy Michelmore's video is a proof on how you can write 2mins of music that sounds very good & cohesive in 30mins of work (ok Guy's very talented too !).
If you think about it, that ratio is just mad.

The sole fact that everything sounds cohesive out of the box is huge time saver. 
Add some extra libs to your taste (like _ffff_ trailer horns a6  ) and you're done.

I guess this is how Spitfire's "game changing" philosophy should be interpreted, and not as a technical breakthrough in orchestral sampling, which some people might have wanted in the first place.

Which I understand since we're all library geeks here. 

_(Disclaimer : I don't work for SA nor own BBCSO. Probably later. For the latter one)._


----------



## synkrotron

LowweeK said:


> since we're all library geeks here



Can't work out if that was a tongue in cheek statement...


----------



## Fleer

christianhenson said:


> Whilst there are trials and tribulations it is with great pride for me to present this.... (oh and sorry for referring to this place as grumpy).



Such a great team. Thanks for sharing, Mr Henson.


----------



## micrologus

First attempt using the BBC Symphony Orchestra. I need to learn how to "massage" the dynamics.


----------



## schrodinger1612

Does anyone here own both the BBC symphony and the Vienna Symphony Special Edition Bundle? I am trying to decide between the two. I’m kind of leaning toward the bbc as everything blends together ‘out of the box’, while also retaining the ability to add my own reverbs if I want. Whereas the Vienna is recorded almost bone dry, which is great as I can create my own virtual environments, but I’d still like the option to have everything self contained in its own natural space.


----------



## AllanH

I'm enjoying the BBCSO more every day. I think the initial description of "Universal starting point" perfectly describes the product. It has the vast majority, if not all, of the common articulations spread across a huge selection of solo and ensemble instruments. I love the tone, the flexibility of the microphones, and the overall cohesiveness of the sections.

For me, the BBCSO is adding something new to my sonic palette. It isn't as deeply sampled as some of Spitfire's other products, but I think it makes up for it with the microphones and sonic quality. 

I do think the player needs work, and I've submitted several bug reports to assist the development team to get it figured out. Most notably, imo, is the memory leaks associated with loading and unloading of articulations. With today's tools, those types of bugs are relatively easy to track down.


----------



## Stevie

@paulthomson @christianhenson 

How can we file feature requests?


----------



## Bluemount Score

micrologus said:


> First attempt using the BBC Symphony Orchestra. I need to learn how to "massage" the dynamics.



I wanted it to go on but it suddenly stopped.


----------



## KallumS

Every big Spitfire release is a rollercoaster - excitement, outrage, admiration, disappointment, acceptance, contentedness. All in the span of a few weeks.


----------



## redlester

AllanH said:


> I do think the player needs work, and I've submitted several bug reports to assist the development team to get it figured out. Most notably, imo, is the memory leaks associated with loading and unloading of articulations. With today's tools, those types of bugs are relatively easy to track down.



I've barely had time to play with it much yet, but something I noticed last night...
At the weekend I had put together a short 8 bar test piece using Violin 1, Cello, Bass, Horn a4, Trumpet and Trombone. This was done in the CH/JJ Logic template and while I was working on it I had no real problems with loading times, although once the MIDI was all in I did have just one or two occasional notes on the horns not sounding.

When I opened it to have another listen last night, it took absolutely ages before the plugin stopped flashing, as if it were loading far more instances than I had actually used. It must have taken about 20 minutes and went up to 7.2GB on the plugin before I could start playback with everything present and correct. The irony is that once it had fully loaded, I wasn't getting the dropped notes anymore!

I stress I am using HDD not SSD so will do more testing on this, but just wondered how others were experiencing opening times for existing projects created in Logic with the 'hybrid' template?


----------



## Patrick.K

micrologus said:


> First attempt using the BBC Symphony Orchestra. I need to learn how to "massage" the dynamics.


Nice, i like it !


----------



## AndyP

Frank Costabile said:


> Does anyone here own both the BBC symphony and the Vienna Symphony Special Edition Bundle? I am trying to decide between the two. I’m kind of leaning toward the bbc as everything blends together ‘out of the box’, while also retaining the ability to add my own reverbs if I want. Whereas the Vienna is recorded almost bone dry, which is great as I can create my own virtual environments, but I’d still like the option to have everything self contained in its own natural space.


I have BBCSO and VSL SE + Synchron-ized SE, but it is far too early to make a concrete comparison.
They both differ in tone in that I would spontaneously say that the BBCSO sounds more lively, more variable.
Overall, however, the VSL Synchron-ized SE (not the old SE) out of the box seems to me to be more balanced.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

I'll say that I'm starting to get a wee bit frustrated. I have to make a trance track for school and I thought I'd be cheeky and throw in one layer of cellos from the BBCSO. Problem is that at random points Reaper will automute the BBCSO without any way to unmute the track. This was driving me nuts trying to figure it out until I opened up the plugin and saw that it's 100% clipping as far as it will go. I tried turning the release all the way down, which stopped the infinite release notes from looping on their own, but then that results in the sound becoming completely chiseled and distorted even at very low volume. The only temporary solution is restarting Reaper, but after about 5 minutes, the same thing happens again.

I don't understand this at all. I've tested inserting a completely new track with brand new MIDI but it keeps happening.

Edit: From what I can tell, it's only happened so far with the Long CS patch, although I can't tell for sure if it's something I'm doing to it.


----------



## synkrotron

MarcHedenberg said:


> Reaper



Ah, at last, someone who has confessed to using REAPER. Good to know.


----------



## synkrotron

MarcHedenberg said:


> I use Reaper!



Oh, yeah, I forgot about this admission too.

My bad.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

synkrotron said:


> Ah, at last, someone who has confessed to using REAPER. Good to know.



What do you mean 'at last'? I shouted it earlier in this thread several times!


----------



## synkrotron

MarcHedenberg said:


> I shouted it earlier in this thread several times!



Yeah, like I said, my bad.

Anyway, I hope you get your issue sorted.

Have you raised a ticket with Spitfire Audio?


----------



## MarcHedenberg

synkrotron said:


> Yeah, like I said, my bad.
> 
> Anyway, I hope you get your issue sorted.
> 
> Have you raised a ticket with Spitfire Audio?



Not about this particular issue. I've raised some general feedback via support and they got back to me. I'll just have to bug them again.


----------



## Stevie

@synkrotron, I jumped on the bandwagon, too. Using Reaper as well. Only had a quick play with it. But for now the plugin is behaving in Reaper.


----------



## synkrotron

Stevie said:


> @synkrotron, I jumped on the bandwagon, too. Using Reaper as well. Only had a quick play with it. But for now the plugin is behaving in Reaper.



Thanks for letting me know


----------



## Bluemount Score

Just letting you know, I just finished my BBCSO template for FL Studio, if you are interested, check this thread out 






BBCSO (Pro / Core / Discover 1.2.0) - free, complete template for FL Studio (UPDATED January 16th 2021)


Dropbox Links to BBCSO template v2.5.2: Template all mics deactivated Template Mix 1 mics activated Update 2 from January 16th 2021 version 2.5.2 for FL Studio 20.8+ - Bass Flute Long Flutter articulation was missing - Some "extended legato" weren't actually extended, but normal legato...




vi-control.net


----------



## Stevie

So far, I really like the library. I can see DJs points, though.

My first impressions are:

the sound is really good. Playability is also good. I quickly put the string part from Fawkes the Phoenix provided by @NoamL in Reaper.
It sounded really good out of the box, it might need some tweaking, though.


Now to the rather unpleasant things:

the dynamics of the brass are REALLY lacking in the ff range and to add that: I'm not a trailer music composer. 
BUT, ff is essential, if you want to mockup a crescendo. This is just not possible with the brass, because you can't reach the higher levels. The dynamic range is just too small.

The trills and flutter tongues are only recorded in one velocity layer, if I'm not mistaken. The bad thing is: they aren't recorded in f, but something around mf or even lower.
I'm not sure what went wrong here, but you literally can't use these as an effect that's standing out, because it gets burried in the arrangement.
I can't conceive really, why these articulations haven't been recorded in f. You can still put a filter on an f sample to get it smoother. But getting an f out of an mf is just not possible.

Especially with the solo brass instruments I noticed a lack of true legato samples. From what I can hear you mostly get only simple crossfades from one sample to the other. It basically sounds like a SIPS legato. Either, there are no transitions OR they are just too low in volume. You can clearly hear that issue in the clarinet comparison here, that was posted a whole bunch of pages earlier. This exact behavior is heard on the solo brass instruments as well.

Can't really say I dislike the player. I don't get all the fuss about it. It's a solid player, that however, could need some more love
in the usability department. Having to skip thru several pages to see all articualtions is far from being intuitive.

Unless I'm really overlooking something, these features are really needed in the player:

- control for legato amount / volume
- timestretching for short articualtions (staccato, staccatissimo, etc....)


So far my first impressions.


----------



## gussunkri

I am also using Reaper. No problems so far.


----------



## Saigen

Great news!


----------



## Stevie

Had a listen on the Woodwinds. The flute is outstanding. This definitely IS a great library. But it needs some small fixes in terms of consistency.
But this is literally nothing that couldn't be done. I have tons of feedback how to improve things, I hope someone will listen.
How do I go about this, file a ticket?


----------



## Fleer

As a flute player I’m in Spitfire heaven.


----------



## CT

Stevie said:


> How do I go about this, file a ticket?



Yes, the easiest way being through the little chat bubble on the website. I'm sure they'd welcome helpful feedback, and there are apparently some imminent updates that might resolve some things you have in mind anyway.


----------



## Stevie

Thanks! Okay, might hold back with my report then and wait for the update.


----------



## redlester

Saigen said:


> Great news!



What does this relate to? A fix for what?


----------



## synkrotron

redlester said:


> What does this relate to? A fix for what?



It was a question about RAM issues which was raised on Christian's latest video on YouTube

Edit

I should clarify that the question was asked in the comments section of the video not the video itself.


----------



## Denkii

I would be so interested in what specifically caused the problem. Please satisfy my curiosity!


----------



## Daniel James

Saigen said:


> Great news!



Any word on faster load times? That would make the library a whole lot more enjoyable for me personally. Was writing a cue on a game yesterday and just wanted a tubular bell....but as it was the only patch I wanted, it was also the first Spitfire player I loaded, so it took its sweet time before I could even play the one note I wanted. I hope they can figure out a way to make it all load fast or at least stream on command like kontakt so I can just load and go, even if its just one simple sound.

In BBCSO's defence after I waited what felt like a day for the player to load.....it was a fantastic tubular bell sound!

-DJ


----------



## robgb

Daniel James said:


> Any word on faster load times?


In Guy Michelmore's review/demo the instruments were loading very fast. He was loading from SSD.


----------



## cqd

Daniel James said:


> In BBCSO's defence after I waited what felt like a day for the player to load.....it was a fantastic tubular bell sound!
> 
> -DJ



Must have killed you to have to eq out that bump though..


----------



## Daniel James

cqd said:


> Must have killed you to have to eq out that bump though..


You know I didn't want to bring it up, but it was the first thing I noticed and fixed once it finished loading XD

-DJ


----------



## cqd

Haha..yeah, I maintain it's supposed to be there..its a phantom fundamental 1 octave below th root..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Daniel James said:


> Any word on faster load times?



For starters, I would seriously invest in a SSD.


----------



## Stevie

Daniel James said:


> You know I didn't want to bring it up, but it was the first thing I noticed and fixed once it finished loading XD
> 
> -DJ



Track templates dude, track templates...


----------



## Daniel James

robgb said:


> In Guy Michelmore's review/demo the instruments were loading very fast. He was loading from SSD.



Yeah SSD will load faster for sure. But as literally every other library on that same hard drive allows me to load and play more or less instantly. Which suggests to me its not to do with 'just get an SSD', if the competition can load up instantly it must be do-able. I really hope they figure out how to do that.

But also keep in mind I wont be the only person running it off of a HD for now, so its not just me I would want those faster load times for. Also from what I hear, some have been struggling with SSD's too, not that that is my point, just related. And just to re echo the actual point: if you competition does something you can't yet, you can't make out like its the users fault for not using other drives, Kontakt has proved there is a way to make load times irrelevant, I would love to see that implemented before shifting the blame on to the user and telling them the $1000 thing they bought wont work properly unless you put another $200 for drives....

Also its never mentioned that SSD is a requirement, meaning I think its acceptable to expect a decent experience on a HD too, again like every other library does (including lots of Spitfire ones) on the exact same drive running via Kontakt.

But I think you get my point by now 

-DJ


----------



## Noeticus

cqd said:


> Haha..yeah, I maintain it's supposed to be there..its a phantom fundamental 1 octave below th root..



I thought that fundementals (overtones?) were always higher than a root/note....???









Overtone - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## cqd

No..I dunno..I linked to a page explaining the maths on it a few days ago.. anyway.. moving on..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Since placing ALL of my libraries on SSD, everything loads substantially faster...this includes Kontakt and Play libraries. I'll be testing BBCSO this weekend, hopefully I don't experience these long load times. However, in Guy's video they seem to load very fast from the supplied SSD.


----------



## Denkii

Daniel James said:


> Yeah SSD will load faster for sure. But as literally every other library on that same hard drive allows me to load and play more or less instantly. Which suggests to me its not to do with 'just get an SSD', if the competition can load up instantly it must be do-able. I really hope they figure out how to do that.
> 
> But also keep in mind I wont be the only person running it off of a HD for now, so its not just me I would want those faster load times for. Also from what I hear, some have been struggling with SSD's too, not that that is my point, just related. And just to re echo the actual point: if you competition does something you can't yet, you can't make out like its the users fault for not using other drives, Kontakt has proved there is a way to make load times irrelevant, I would love to see that implemented before shifting the blame on to the user and telling them the $1000 thing they bought wont work properly unless you put another $200 for drives....
> 
> Also its never mentioned that SSD is a requirement, meaning I think its acceptable to expect a decent experience on a HD too, again like every other library (including lots of Spitfire ones) on the exact same drive running via Kontakt.
> 
> But I think you get my point by now
> 
> -DJ


Out of curiosity: Do you have the same problem with HZS or EWH?
If no: are they on the same drive? Is something else different?


----------



## Stephen Baysted

Load times from the Spitfire SSD over USB3 are very fast here (Mac Pro Dustbin). 

Had a few hours to play today and I am hugely impressed by the library. Fantastically good value too.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

It's faster on an SSD, but definitely not instant. Even on an SSD I have to wait for patches to load. I also thought the App was broken the first time I loaded patches because no sound was coming through, but realized later it was still loading.

Windows 10 Pro, AMD 3700X.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

I read in the manual (yes, I read the manuals) that you can delete any articulations not being used within an instance. Not only does this save on RAM, but once the project is saved and reopened, it should load a lot faster.


----------



## Joel Ewers

Yep, I've been deleting the articulations I don't need and that helps immensely.

On the topic of loading, it would be nice if they could increase of the diameter of the little indicator light in the top left. From 6 pixels to, say, 60?


----------



## Daniel James

Wolfie2112 said:


> I read in the manual (yes, I read the manuals) that you can delete any articulations not being used within an instance. Not only does this save on RAM, but once the project is saved and reopened, it should load a lot faster.



Yeah although the tubular bells doesn't have that many articulations to begin with! Also, I am not sure, but I feel like the initial load time always takes a while regardless. Might not be so, but feels like it.

-DJ


----------



## Saigen

Daniel James said:


> Any word on faster load times? That would make the library a whole lot more enjoyable for me personally. Was writing a cue on a game yesterday and just wanted a tubular bell....but as it was the only patch I wanted, it was also the first Spitfire player I loaded, so it took its sweet time before I could even play the one note I wanted. I hope they can figure out a way to make it all load fast or at least stream on command like kontakt so I can just load and go, even if its just one simple sound.
> 
> In BBCSO's defence after I waited what felt like a day for the player to load.....it was a fantastic tubular bell sound!
> 
> -DJ



Unfortunately, I know as much as you do in regards to that.
I'm on an SSD, so my loading times aren't as severe as yours.

Do you have an ETA on when the SSD you ordered will arrive through the mail?


----------



## ridgero

Which speed does the Spitfire SSD enclosure support? 3.1. Gen 2? I use it with a USB C / USB C cable. But I was a bit confused because it only comes with a USB C to USB A cable.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

ridgero said:


> Which speed does the Spitfire SSD enclosure support? 3.1. Gen 2? I use it with a USB C / USB C cable. But I was a bit confused because it only comes with a USB C to USB A cable.



It has to be 3.1 Gen2 (10Gb/s), otherwise it will be way too slow. Gen 1 is 5GB/s. Well I hope it will be Gen 2 :D


----------



## Daniel James

Saigen said:


> Unfortunately, I know as much as you do in regards to that.
> I'm on an SSD, so my loading times aren't as severe as yours.
> 
> Do you have an ETA on when the SSD you ordered will arrive through the mail?



I was actually going to get a better SSD to put it on and a few other libraries. Although I don't think I will be using BBC enough to make me rush to get it. I am sort of hoping for a way to move it over with just the mix mics, so I can save space and load times even on the SSD. I do want to use the strings and perc for sure on a few things. Have they ever alluded to any plans to let people move across only the content they want? 600gb is just too big for how much i'll use it.

-DJ


----------



## redlester

My 2012 Mac Mini is only USB 3.0 so I guess I would only have a small speed gain if moving from HDD to SSD, at least until I upgrade to something more up to date?


----------



## ism

Daniel James said:


> Have they ever alluded to any plans to let people move across only the content they want? 600gb is just too big for how much use it will get for me XD



That's a good question. It would in effect save me $100 to be able to put a mix mic (or maybe close + tree) on an SSD and keep the rest on an older HDD for more occasionally use.


----------



## Saigen

Daniel James said:


> I was actually going to get a better SSD to put it on and a few other libraries. Although I don't think I will be using BBC enough to make me rush to get it. I am sort of hoping for a way to move it over with just the mix mics, so I can save space and load times even on the SSD. I do want to use the strings and perc for sure on a few things. Have they ever alluded to any plans to let people move across only the content they want? 600gb is just too big for how much i'll use it.
> 
> -DJ



What makes you think I have all the answers?  I'm not a part of Spitfire, I'm part of that alleged 1% according to Chris Henson that has RAM issues.

I know just as much as you do in regards to their plans.

But fucking hell yea. That's a really good question though. I will be doing some experimenting to see if I can somehow manage that.


----------



## Daniel James

ism said:


> That's a good question. It would in effect save me $100 to be able to put a mix mic (or maybe close + tree) on an SSD and keep the rest on an older HDD for more occasionally use.



Thats EXACTLY how I want to set it up. Put the player, strings and perc on SSD with just mix mics, leave everything else for the HD in the rare chance I use it. I hate the concept of filling valuable SSD space with endless bottle mics I wont use 

-DJ


----------



## haus.media

Can anybody help a newbie? I had some issues initially installing the library, an anxiously downloaded library overpowered the SA SSD (once received) and the machine didn't like it when the DL library disappeared. Cheers to Jack and Luke from SA for helping, through chat, to sort things out. Beyond that...

This is my first real orchestra library (Miroslav 2 previously) and I have what may be an ignorant question. When I play a single violin or even flute note, there is a very distinct separate sound. The best way to describe it is....like someone blowing into a straw at the same pitch as the note played. Is that supposedly the room sound or harmonics? If I put an EQ on it and notch around 1k it disappears but also takes the life completely out of the sample. It is most prevalent in the upper notes, unfortunately where I would consider the sweet spot of a solo instrument, particularly the violin.

When I hit the upper most note in the range of the violin leader 1 preset, it is basically 50% "rushing wind" or white noise and 50% actual instrument sample.

Is it the expectation that the higher the note goes in these libraries, the more they "fall apart" and to expect a true solo performance is unrealistic and only should be used in the context of a full orchestra where perhaps the additional noise is masked?

I'm loving my first moments with the BBCSO so I don't want the honeymoon to end, and yet I hear fantastic pieces that have been created with this and other libraries.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## mistermister

Daniel James said:


> Thats EXACTLY how I want to set it up. Put the player, strings and perc on SSD with just mix mics, leave everything else for the HD in the rare chance I use it. I hate the concept of filling valuable SSD space with endless bottle mics I wont use
> 
> -DJ


You can do that with HZ and BBCSO. The sample files are split out by mic. All I did was move the ones I use regularly onto a new folder on an SSD and add the folder to the spitfire config file (can't remember off hand where that is). Not as simple to do as I'd like but it wasn't difficult.


----------



## jamwerks

So there are professional musicians still using HDD's? Man, even SSD's are old now compared to M.2's !!


----------



## ridgero

Benjamin Duk said:


> It has to be 3.1 Gen2 (10Gb/s), otherwise it will be way too slow. Gen 1 is 5GB/s. Well I hope it will be Gen 2 :D



I am not sure if its that fast at all. I think it's USB 3.0.

I opened a SA support ticket, I'll post the answer into this thread.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

haus.media said:


> This is my first real orchestra library (Miroslav 2 previously) and I have what may be an ignorant question. When I play a single violin or even flute note, there is a very distinct separate sound. The best way to describe it is....like someone blowing into a straw at the same pitch as the note played. Is that supposedly the room sound or harmonics? If I put an EQ on it and notch around 1k it disappears but also takes the life completely out of the sample. It is most prevalent in the upper notes, unfortunately where I would consider the sweet spot of a solo instrument, particularly the violin.


I know what you mean. What you hear is typical. It is like air/hiss or however one can describe it.
It is not a failure of BBCSO. I hear this on all good string sample libraries.
It is especially pronounced in higher pitched notes of the string instruments. The thinner the instrument sounds (for example violin leader compared to a full section) the more pronounced you can hear it.


----------



## Saigen

Alright. So the way to eliminate other mic positions is to simply do the following.
In your BBC folder "*F:\Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra\Samples\_Strings*" you can find all mic positions with their respective samples.

*First, a chart.
CL01 = Close
MI01 = Mix 1
MI02 = Mix 2
TR01 = Tree*

AF01 = AtmosF
AM01 = Ambient
AR01 = AtmosR
BA01 = Balcony
CW01 = Close-Wide
LE01 = Leader
MD01 = Mids
MO01 = Mono (? Even if this is deleted, the microphone position is still an active choice)
OU01 = Outrigger
SB01 = Spill Brass
SF01 = Spill Full
SP01 = Spill Percussion
SS01 = Spill Strings
SW01 = Spill Woodwinds
ST01 = Stereo
SI01 = Sides
SP01 = Spot

*MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT DELETE _IR1 AND THE .DB FILE!!!!*

If we take the file *BBCSO__AUNTIE_BASSES_LONGHARMONICS_RR1_AF01.spitfire* we notice at the end it's labeled AF01 for AtmosF. In order to get rid of this microphone position, *DELETE IT!*

Make sure to do this for every Round Robin (prior to _AF01 you see it's labeled _RR1)

...And you're done.






_(This is with Mix 1, Mix 2, Close, Tree mics only for all instrument sections)_

And most importantly:

_



_
This is the amount of space you save.


----------



## Daniel James

jamwerks said:


> So there are professional musicians still using HDD's? Man, even SSD's are old now compared to M.2's !!



Yes because until this they have not been an issue in anyway. Kontakt's load as you go with instant playability makes load times totally irrelevant. Until they get in the way of writing music HDD's are fine over usb3.1 (for the record I have 3HDDs + 4 SSD's just not 600gig free, and I never notice a difference from those loading off of SSD and those on HDD) Just watch any of my live composition streams to see that in practise.

-DJ


----------



## redlester

redlester said:


> I've barely had time to play with it much yet, but something I noticed last night...
> At the weekend I had put together a short 8 bar test piece using Violin 1, Cello, Bass, Horn a4, Trumpet and Trombone. This was done in the CH/JJ Logic template and while I was working on it I had no real problems with loading times, although once the MIDI was all in I did have just one or two occasional notes on the horns not sounding.
> 
> When I opened it to have another listen last night, it took absolutely ages before the plugin stopped flashing, as if it were loading far more instances than I had actually used. It must have taken about 20 minutes and went up to 7.2GB on the plugin before I could start playback with everything present and correct. The irony is that once it had fully loaded, I wasn't getting the dropped notes anymore!
> 
> I stress I am using HDD not SSD so will do more testing on this, but just wondered how others were experiencing opening times for existing projects created in Logic with the 'hybrid' template?



Just to clear this one up...user error!

I must have saved the project with the strings stack selected, because it was opening with all instances of BBC SO in the strings section loaded! 

In Christian's template video he specifically said this would happen and to select the No Output track prior to saving. Lesson learned.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

I really like this library, but the strings are quite wet for my taste, escpecially the legatos. Maybe it's because I'm used to drier libraries. I wished the close microphones were a bit drier. 

How is this sound compared to the libraries recorded at Air Studios? Similar wet or wetter? Hope someone can chime in.


----------



## ridgero

The Spitfire Studio Series is dry.


----------



## Fleer

London dry.


----------



## Saigen

ism said:


> That's a good question. It would in effect save me $100 to be able to put a mix mic (or maybe close + tree) on an SSD and keep the rest on an older HDD for more occasionally use.


See https://vi-control.net/community/th...ymphony-orchestra.84345/page-292#post-4453241


----------



## ism

Saigen said:


> See https://vi-control.net/community/th...ymphony-orchestra.84345/page-292#post-4453241



Very cool - thanks!


----------



## vdk-john

Found part 2 of the one I posted yesterday:


----------



## MaxOctane

Daniel James said:


> Thats EXACTLY how I want to set it up. Put the player, strings and perc on SSD with just mix mics, leave everything else for the HD in the rare chance I use it. I hate the concept of filling valuable SSD space with endless bottle mics I wont use
> 
> -DJ



I would insta-buy this if the files were broken up by mix/mic, rather than just by strings/brass/winds/etc.

I run off my 2TB laptop and in different rooms. I simply don't have space for 600GB when I'll use 3 mics/mixes, tops.

About 70% of my 2TB macbook pro disk is... Spitfire libs!


----------



## Saigen

MaxOctane said:


> I would insta-buy this if the files were broken up by mix/mic, rather than just by strings/brass/winds/etc.
> 
> I run off my 2TB laptop and in different rooms. I simply don't have space for 600GB when I'll use 3 mics/mixes, tops.
> 
> About 70% of my 2TB macbook pro disk is... Spitfire libs!







__





Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


Alright. So the way to eliminate other mic positions is to simply do the following. In your BBC folder "F:\Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra\Samples\_Strings" you can find all mic positions with their respective samples. First, a chart. CL01 = Close MI01 = Mix 1 MI02 = Mix 2 TR01 = Tree...




vi-control.net


----------



## Mike Fox

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I really like this library, but the strings are quite wet for my taste, escpecially the legatos. Maybe it's because I'm used to drier libraries. I wished the close microphones were a bit drier.
> 
> How is this sound compared to the libraries recorded at Air Studios? Similar wet or wetter? Hope someone can chime in.


Lyndhurst is usually too wet for my tastes, but the smaller studios are pretty dry.


----------



## NoamL

bricop said:


> I'd be interested to hear from people with experience of building Sibelius soundsets as to whether or not you think building one for BBCSO would be a worthwhile endeavour? The Sibelius Soundset Project seems pretty dormant at the moment so looks like it might be a DIY project for someone with the necessary skills.
> 
> I migrate constantly between Sibelius and Logic but I have to admit that when writing contemporary classical orchestral music I tend to compose on Sibelius but when working in film, I prefer to compose directly into Logic X (and maybe work some things out in Sibelius first). Since my priority is completing a 30-minute orchestral piece for my composition PhD portfolio workflow is of the utmost importance to me. I had hoped to develop some DAW fluency so that I could render a BBCSO performance of the piece so am always faced with the dilemma of either working solely in Sibelius with Noteperformer, exporting from Sibelius to Logic then trying to create a BBCSO performance or lastly, try to somehow connect Sibelius with BBCSO through a soundset or rewiring to Logic.
> 
> I'd love to hear the community's view on solving these workflow issues.



I got out of this thread but wanted to answer this question...  Brian I think your 1st plan for the workflow is the best option. Noteperformer will be good enough (plus your ears/training) while you actually write the piece. After that, export it to MIDI and mock it up with BBCSO. I have done mockups this way before for classical composers. The problem with trying to hook up a virtual instrument into Sibelius or Finale is that you won't be able to fine-tune and control the performance as much as if you were directly working with MIDI. You'd probably end up redoing significant amounts of the performance data after exporting it to LogicX anyway. Wallander's Noteperformer is a really nice-performing piece of software for notation programs. No, it doesn't sound super realistic but it makes the most of what options are available within Sibelius while limiting the hassle/interference to a "pen & paper" composer's workflow.


----------



## CT

Saigen said:


> Alright. So the way to eliminate other mic positions is to simply do the following.
> In your BBC folder "*F:\Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra\Samples\_Strings*" you can find all mic positions with their respective samples.
> 
> *First, a chart.
> CL01 = Close
> MI01 = Mix 1
> MI02 = Mix 2
> TR01 = Tree*
> 
> AF01 = AtmosF
> AM01 = Ambient
> AR01 = AtmosR
> BA01 = Balcony
> CW01 = Close-Wide
> LE01 = Leader
> MD01 = Mids
> MO01 = Mono (? Even if this is deleted, the microphone position is still an active choice)
> OU01 = Outrigger
> SB01 = Spill Brass
> SF01 = Spill Full
> SP01 = Spill Percussion
> SS01 = Spill Strings
> SW01 = Spill Woodwinds
> ST01 = Stereo
> SI01 = Sides
> SP01 = Spot
> 
> *MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT DELETE _IR1 AND THE .DB FILE!!!!*
> 
> If we take the file *BBCSO__AUNTIE_BASSES_LONGHARMONICS_RR1_AF01.spitfire* we notice at the end it's labeled AF01 for AtmosF. In order to get rid of this microphone position, *DELETE IT!*
> 
> Make sure to do this for every Round Robin (prior to _AF01 you see it's labeled _RR1)
> 
> ...And you're done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(This is with Mix 1, Mix 2, Close, Tree mics only for all instrument sections)_
> 
> And most importantly:
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _
> This is the amount of space you save.



Are you noticing the player acting up at all as a result of getting rid of those mic positions?


----------



## ERIC VALETTE

Saigen said:


> Great news!


Indeed great news!

SA support also sent me a message a few hours ago which confirms that a solution could be found to the RAM issues on Windows systems...

_"Hi Eric 

Thank you for sending this through, just to keep you updated our developers have identified some possible solutions which they are testing through now and implementing. I will keep you updated as soon as I have any further progress on this. 

Thank you 

Sandy"_

Note: I just tested with the Hans Zimmer Strings plugin (v1.2.7) on the same system and DAW (PC core I7 3930k, 64 Gb, internal SSD, Windows 10 pro and Cubase pro 10), and strangely, in this case, everything works perfectly (sound, memory consumption even with a large number of open instances and microphones positions activated, very fast loading times...). The BBCSO version of the plugin still does not work for me yet...

Wait and see!...


----------



## NoamL

PS @Daniel James when are you getting VEPro, man? I held out against getting it for years until I got a gig that would have been totally undeliverable without a VEP workflow, and now I'll never go back, it's a lifechanger. Did you really load all your instruments every time you opened a project for Monster High or MGS5? Surely not?


----------



## Daniel James

I have VEPro, didn't work with my flow personally, my way of working is very modular, that way I can go wherever the flow takes me...not just where the template takes me.

I did all of Monster High on a 16gb laptop in Tokyo. And yeah unless I want to carry over textures and orchestrations from other cues every scene is scored from scratch. Its not as tedious as you think. I have a pretty good understanding of which libraries do what the best, so if I have a certain idea in mind I will load up the perfect patch for it, rather than just use whatever I might have in a template. Like I said in an earlier post tho, Kontakt makes loading times irrelevant. Case in point, the amount of time I had to sit and wait before I could play a BBCSO patch was more frustrating than doing a full orchestral arrangement on Monster High with a laptop with 16gb of ram.

Metal Gear I did in Battle (the place not in combat) in Ableton Live, although that was the gig where I got Cubase so I could mix 5.1. And every instrument on that was also picked to be the best thing for any given cue. I find templates and preloads to restricting. I hate using up all my system resources before I have even started.

In all instances the project were loaded fully in a minute or so. Again Kontakt background loading doing its magic.

-DJ


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

VEPro isn’t just for templates, you simply open it up like any other VI...and load your VI right into it. Your entire project remains loaded even when you close the project and start/open a new one. A massive timesaver when working on multiple cues. For smaller projects though, I see how it can be a hassle.


----------



## Seycara

synkrotron said:


> I obviously don't have the ear for this stuff because that sounded okay to me.
> 
> As does this:-
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not challenging what you are saying, just... saying...




This demo is average at best, Spitfire is no performance samples when it comes to legato.


----------



## Saigen

miket said:


> Are you noticing the player acting up at all as a result of getting rid of those mic positions?


Not one bit. It works just fine, except for the RAM errors.


----------



## Daniel James

Wolfie2112 said:


> VEPro isn’t just for templates, you simply open it up like any other VI...and load your VI right into it. Your entire project remains loaded even when you close the project and start/open a new one. A massive timesaver when working on multiple cues. For smaller projects though, I see how it can be a hassle.



Yeah actually now I think about it that might have been handy on that live gig I recorded at air studios! All the patches were the same as they were going to be replaced. Mind you saying that, I don't remember it ever being an issue at the time, but in hindsight it could have been quicker! We are gunna get this shit down to Formula1 level time margins 

-DJ


----------



## chocobitz825

Saigen said:


> Not one bit. It works just fine, except for the RAM errors.



At this point, any and all complaints of issues are valid and possible. Part of it might be problems during download. When I first downloaded it, certain instruments would not load up any mics at all. I had to repair the library to get it to work properly. I would start there if people are having problems with the library or player.


----------



## Cormast

Saigen said:


> Alright. So the way to eliminate other mic positions is to simply do the following.
> In your BBC folder "*F:\Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra\Samples\_Strings*" you can find all mic positions with their respective samples.
> 
> *First, a chart.
> CL01 = Close
> MI01 = Mix 1
> MI02 = Mix 2
> TR01 = Tree*
> 
> AF01 = AtmosF
> AM01 = Ambient
> AR01 = AtmosR
> BA01 = Balcony
> CW01 = Close-Wide
> LE01 = Leader
> MD01 = Mids
> MO01 = Mono (? Even if this is deleted, the microphone position is still an active choice)
> OU01 = Outrigger
> SB01 = Spill Brass
> SF01 = Spill Full
> SP01 = Spill Percussion
> SS01 = Spill Strings
> SW01 = Spill Woodwinds
> ST01 = Stereo
> SI01 = Sides
> SP01 = Spot
> 
> *MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT DELETE _IR1 AND THE .DB FILE!!!!*
> 
> If we take the file *BBCSO__AUNTIE_BASSES_LONGHARMONICS_RR1_AF01.spitfire* we notice at the end it's labeled AF01 for AtmosF. In order to get rid of this microphone position, *DELETE IT!*
> 
> Make sure to do this for every Round Robin (prior to _AF01 you see it's labeled _RR1)
> 
> ...And you're done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(This is with Mix 1, Mix 2, Close, Tree mics only for all instrument sections)_
> 
> And most importantly:
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _
> This is the amount of space you save.


Does it work better doing this for you ?


----------



## ridgero

I played around with the BBCSO a bit longer. Previously I mainly used CSB, CSS, CSSS.

For me two things are already outstanding:

1. BBCSO has such a cohesive sound without adjusting the mixer levels or EQ. On the one hand incredibly defined, on the other hand homogenous. Exactly what I was looking for.

2. The all in one package comes handy when you want to change to a different instrument. Changing an instrument is so incredibly easy, with 2 mouse clicks. In Kontakt it took me longer and it was laborious. I like the UI, especially the simplicity and the resizeability.

It would be great if you could adjust the arrangement of the microphones. I like to use Mix 1/2 and Spills, unfortunately this is spread over different pages.


----------



## Saigen

chocobitz825 said:


> At this point, any and all complaints of issues are valid and possible. Part of it might be problems during download. When I first downloaded it, certain instruments would not load up any mics at all. I had to repair the library to get it to work properly. I would start there if people are having problems with the library or player.


You quoted me out of context, FYI.


----------



## Saigen

Cormast said:


> Does it work better doing this for you ?


Daniel James and another person raised the question of minimizing the amount hard drive space required for BBCSO by eliminating mic position options. What my post explains is exactly the process of doing so. The library still works all the same for me, and as for the rest of the people on Windows 10 with RAM issues. Still waiting for that plugin fix


----------



## bricop

NoamL said:


> I got out of this thread but wanted to answer this question...  Brian I think your 1st plan for the workflow is the best option. Noteperformer will be good enough (plus your ears/training) while you actually write the piece. After that, export it to MIDI and mock it up with BBCSO. I have done mockups this way before for classical composers. The problem with trying to hook up a virtual instrument into Sibelius or Finale is that you won't be able to fine-tune and control the performance as much as if you were directly working with MIDI. You'd probably end up redoing significant amounts of the performance data after exporting it to LogicX anyway. Wallander's Noteperformer is a really nice-performing piece of software for notation programs. No, it doesn't sound super realistic but it makes the most of what options are available within Sibelius while limiting the hassle/interference to a "pen & paper" composer's workflow.


Thanks Naom, another reason I am interested in composing contemporary classical music with samples is because I have been studying the works of Anders Hillborg, one of our finest living orchestral composers, and he said in an interview that he creates a mock up using samples before committing anything to notation. I’m not sure how literal he is because when listening to the complexity of his music it’s hard to imagine creating music like that away from the score. I love the level of control that score writing gives me but I also like to be able to respond to music in the moment of its creation. I’d also thought about learning the score writer in Logic X and exporting as music xml into Sibelius so that may be an option. Another option would be Dorico which seems to offer the best of both worlds in that it is a beautiful score writer but also offers DAW-like editing of the midi data. I do have Dorico but it would take time to become fluent in it. The joys of refining workflow to incorporate samples and technology 😊


----------



## robgb

Daniel James said:


> Also its never mentioned that SSD is a requirement, meaning I think its acceptable to expect a decent experience on a HD too,


I don't disagree. I load all my libraries from an HDD and they load just fine. So I get the complaint. But it seems loading from an SSD does make all the difference. It looked like Michelmore got his on an SSD from Spitfire. Maybe it's worth the extra couple hundred bucks (although I think the price of the library, in general, is way too high).


----------



## Noeticus

Gosh... getting nearer to 6000 posts!


----------



## chocobitz825

Seycara said:


> This demo is average at best, Spitfire is no performance samples when it comes to legato.



layer some performance samples on top of BBCSO though and you get some beautiful results!


----------



## robgb

ridgero said:


> Changing an instrument is so incredibly easy, with 2 mouse clicks. In Kontakt it took me longer and it was laborious.


I don't understand this at all. Why was is it laborious to load an instrument in Kontakt? It literally takes two clicks as well. And if there's an instrument you regularly use, create a track template in your DAW and load it instantly with all the parameters you prefer in one click.


----------



## Bansi

2chris said:


> The idea of this library is phenomenal.
> 
> On a sample library, I totally understand having microphone options is super important. I've heard the saying "the room is it's own instrument" and I get it. What I'm at a loss for, is when is there too many microphone positions? I'm a complete newb to traditional orchestration, and while this library sounds fantastic IMHO for strings, woodwinds, and percussion (...and brass sounds great at low volume) - I'm struggling to understand why it was worth having this many microphones with the strain it creates in extra resources. How can you make a full template with this?
> 
> It's almost like Spitfire needs a lite (mic 1/2), regular (more), and mix engineer version (what we have now) of this to accommodate people. Maybe I don't understand?


+1 for a lighter version, fewer mikes and more resource friendly.


----------



## Daniel James

Noeticus said:


> Gosh... getting nearer to 6000 posts!



I sort of dont want it to ever end.

-DJ


----------



## Fleer

Should have started a chocolates thread.


----------



## jononotbono

Fleer said:


> Should have started a chocolates thread.



So, upstate New York... I went to a petrol station yesterday, sorry, Gas station, and got very excited to see a Milky Way on the shelf! "Finally!" I thought. "Some decent chocolate at last". How wrong I was. Utterly disgusted with the disrespect of these heathens disguising a Mars Bar with a Milky Way wrapper.






Still, at least it's not a box of Quality Street.


----------



## CT

jononotbono said:


> So, upstate New York



Oh yeah? Is that where you're based now, or are you just passing through?


----------



## jononotbono

miket said:


> Oh yeah? Is that where you're based now, or are you just passing through?



Depends entirely what their Twix bars taste like.


----------



## clisma

jononotbono said:


> So, upstate New York... I went to a petrol station yesterday, sorry, Gas station, and got very excited to see a Milky Way on the shelf! "Finally!" I thought. "Some decent chocolate at last". How wrong I was. Utterly disgusted with the disrespect of these heathens disguising a Mars Bar with a Milky Way wrapper.
> 
> Still, at least it's not a box of Quality Street.


----------



## Fleer

jononotbono said:


> So, upstate New York... I went to a petrol station yesterday, sorry, Gas station, and got very excited to see a Milky Way on the shelf! "Finally!" I thought. "Some decent chocolate at last". How wrong I was. Utterly disgusted with the disrespect of these heathens disguising a Mars Bar with a Milky Way wrapper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still, at least it's not a box of Quality Street.


Yeah, I remember when I tasted my first Milky Way in the New World. Nothing like that creamy lightweight I was used to in the Old. Didn’t dare to open a Mars bar.


----------



## ed buller

jononotbono said:


> Depends entirely what their Twix bars taste like.


you'll move on !

e


----------



## dzilizzi

Fleer said:


> Yeah, I remember when I tasted my first Milky Way in the New World. Nothing like that creamy lightweight I was used to in the Old. Didn’t dare to open a Mars bar.


What is the difference. I only know our Milky Way. Though I prefer 3 Musketeers myself.


----------



## jononotbono

Fleer said:


> Yeah, I remember when I tasted my first Milky Way in the New World. Nothing like that creamy lightweight I was used to in the Old. Didn’t dare to open a Mars bar.



That's why that job was left to the Rolling Stones. Those Mars Bar parties were legendary!


----------



## clisma

jononotbono said:


> I have to admit. I've been chuckling like a goodun since you posted this. I can't work out whether I'm racist for wanting to try it or whether everyone else is racist for ignoring it. We just can't win. Where's this Bass Flute then? It's been at least 3 days.


Welcome to the US of A.


----------



## synkrotron

Seycara said:


> This demo is average at best, Spitfire is no performance samples when it comes to legato.



Thank you for providing your superior opinion.


----------



## cqd

jononotbono said:


> So, upstate New York... I went to a petrol station yesterday, sorry, Gas station, and got very excited to see a Milky Way on the shelf! "Finally!" I thought. "Some decent chocolate at last". How wrong I was. Utterly disgusted with the disrespect of these heathens disguising a Mars Bar with a Milky Way wrapper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still, at least it's not a box of Quality Street.



What in God's name is that?


----------



## redlester

For Logic users, don't know how good or otherwise this is, but stumbled across this on Twitter - BBC SO articulation sets:


----------



## Christopher Rocky

@paulthomson a little late to the party here, after having some time with bbcso, the absolutely main thing thats lacking is an attack knob/slider for the strings (unless i'm missing something?) this should be easy enough to add to the UI? i think it is really necessary and would make it a much more valuable library if this can be added.

i've had to get around it by mixing longs with a separate instance of the marcatos so i have some attack on the note initially and avoid the long transition of hearing the note being played on the longs.

APART from this... bbcso is an amazing library. i absolutely love it, and i'm so looking forward to the extra content/patch fixes etc.. I'm on pc, win10, cubase 10 and havent had any major issues running with 32gb ram.


----------



## almo

I have a queetstion to all users about delay compensation of this library especially with the legato patches, for example the strings.. How tight is it, compared to other Libraries, Like Hollywoodstrings or CSS?


----------



## LudovicVDP

I don't have the courage nor the time to get through all the posts so sorry if already mentionned here (definitly already mentionned a few time on other threads). And it might not solve the loading time issue at all... and I'm sure you all know that already... but just as a reminder:

If you put your your samples in a new folder/drive/whatever, make sure it is on the exclusion list of Windows Defender.


----------



## Patrick.K

I am still in USB 2. and HDD classic in Firefire 800  Do you think that a SSD will improve things ?


----------



## Bluemount Score

almo said:


> I have a queetstion to all users about delay compensation of this library especially with the legato patches, for example the strings.. How tight is it, compared to other Libraries, Like Hollywoodstrings or CSS?


For me, it can't replace the emotional, great legato quality of CSS, but it sure is my string library with the highest playability and agility.


Patrick9152 said:


> I am still in USB 2. and HDD classic in Firefire 800  Do you think that a SSD will improve things ?


From a logical perspective.. it definitely should. There is a reason most of us use SSDs.


----------



## almo

Bluemount Score said:


> For me, it can't replace the emotional, great legato quality of CSS, but it sure is my string library with the highest playability and agility.
> What is your negative delay value setting?


----------



## Bluemount Score

almo said:


> What is your negative delay value setting?


In CSS or BBCSO?
For CSS usually 300ms (lowest legato speed), for BBCSO I can't name a fixed number yet. It's very short though, probably not higher than 100ms. I'm honestly not even sure how variable it is, depending on velocity and playing speed, due to being so agil.


----------



## Denkii

jononotbono said:


> So, upstate New York... I went to a petrol station yesterday, sorry, Gas station, and got very excited to see a Milky Way on the shelf! "Finally!" I thought. "Some decent chocolate at last". How wrong I was. Utterly disgusted with the disrespect of these heathens disguising a Mars Bar with a Milky Way wrapper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still, at least it's not a box of Quality Street.


This has to be superior. I mean it is N after all.
The new add-on the world did not wait for.
N: chocolate bars.


----------



## Patrick.K

Bluemount Score said:


> From a logical perspective.. it definitely should. There is a reason most of us use SSDs.



I agree, and even in usb 2, I think it will work better, although I have no problem for 9 years with my Imac 27 I5 32 GB ... waiting to change the machine, but it is expensive ... the price of tranquility.


----------



## Fleer

dzilizzi said:


> What is the difference. I only know our Milky Way. Though I prefer 3 Musketeers myself.


Mmmmm, love those 3 men. As for Milky Way in the US, it actually contains a Mars bar, or what is known as such in Europe.


----------



## styledelk

Now considering what equipment/kidneys I can sell before the sale is over.

But maybe I should just get good first. Wyld Stallyns and all of that.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Is it just me or are the strings out of tune?


----------



## Bluemount Score

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Is it just me or are the strings out of tune?


Didn't noticed anything like that so far. The strings in general or a specific patch?


----------



## Noeticus

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Is it just me or are the strings out of tune?



This reminds me of...

What would you do if I sang out of tune? 
Would you stand up and walk out on me? 
Lend me your ears and I'll sing you a song,
and I'll try not to sing out of key.

However, I don't have the answer to your question.


----------



## redlester

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Is it just me or are the strings out of tune?



Given that we heard them tuning up on the Guy Michelmore video that would be surprising!


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Bluemount Score said:


> Didn't noticed anything like that so far. The strings in general or a specific patch?



In general. For example: If you play a legato line, there are some notes slightly out of tune.


----------



## SupremeFist

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> In general. For example: If you play a legato line, there are some notes slightly out of tune.


It's ok cos string players are always out of tune.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

SupremeFist said:


> It's ok cos string players are always out of tune.


Hm... yes, of course, if it were random, but it's always the same notes.


----------



## sostenuto

Daniel James said:


> Yeah actually now I think about it that might have been handy on that live gig I recorded at air studios! All the patches were the same as they were going to be replaced. Mind you saying that, I don't remember it ever being an issue at the time, but in hindsight it could have been quicker! We are gunna get this shit down to Formula1 level time margins
> 
> -DJ



*...... < 2.0 secs ??? *


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Mike Fox said:


> Lyndhurst is usually too wet for my tastes, but the smaller studios are pretty dry.


Thanks. Lyndhurst is also too wet for my taste, this is why I didn't buy SCS or SSS. But after comparing videos of these with BBCSO, the difference is not so extreme, in my opinion.

What do you think of it? Of course, Lyndhurst has a longer reverb tail. SCS/SSS vs. BBCSO in terms of wetness?


----------



## Mike Fox

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Thanks. Lyndhurst is also too wet for my taste, this is why I didn't buy SCS or SSS. But after comparing videos of these with BBCSO, the difference is not so extreme, in my opinion.
> 
> What do you think of it? Of course, Lyndhurst has a longer reverb tail. SCS/SSS vs. BBCSO in terms of wetness?


To be fair, I've yet to play BBC, so I haven't had a chance to see what all the different mic positions can bring about. 

From what I've heard though, it seems like Lyndhurst might have it beat in terms of wetness. 

Maybe someone who has both could chime in?


----------



## Joël Dollié

BBCSO isn't as wet, it has nice early reflections especially if you use the outrigs, but not as much of a tail as air studios stuff. To be honest the roominess/early reflections/recordings is probably the best thing about the library.

You can't really fake a real sense of space and unity with reverbs that well.


----------



## Noeticus

Joël Dollié said:


> BBCSO isn't as wet, it has nice early reflections especially if you use the outrigs, but not as much of a tail as air studios stuff. To be honest the roominess/early reflections/recordings is probably the best thing about the library.
> 
> You can't really fake a real sense of space and unity with reverbs that well.



Have you tried Audioease's Altiverb on Close Mics, or on dry samples like those from VSL? 

It is fantastic!!!


----------



## jamieboo

Hello gang

So to ask again a question I asked a couple of weeks ago - when everything was still rosy-cheeked speculation - would this library serve as a good upgrade from my EW Hollywood Orchestra Diamond?

I am starting to suspect No.
But there's a quality it seems to have that is still very appealing to me, it's balance and spatial fidelity straight out of the box.
With Hollywood I have spent days and days playing with sliders just to get the orchestra to a state of approximate balance, and I've never managed it. 

I don't know, would this merit outway the fact that Hollywood is generally a more comprehensive and deeply sampled library (despite it's quirks. Though I should say I've never had issues with PLAY)?

What do you think?

(The sound I generally strive for is a traditional symphonic/Williamsy kind of thing - definitely NOT hybrid/trailer.
I have a i7 5820, 32GB RAM, and SSDs.)


----------



## porrasm

jamieboo said:


> Hello gang
> 
> So to ask again a question I asked a couple of weeks ago - when everything was still rosy-cheeked speculation - would this library serve as a good upgrade from my EW Hollywood Orchestra Diamond?
> 
> I am starting to suspect No.
> But there's a quality it seems to have that is still very appealing to me, it's balance and spatial fidelity straight out of the box.
> With Hollywood I have spent days and days playing with sliders just to get the orchestra to a state of approximate balance, and I've never managed it.
> 
> I don't know, would this merit outway the fact that Hollywood is generally a more comprehensive and deeply sampled library (despite it's quirks. Though I should say I've never had issues with PLAY)?
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> (The sound I generally strive for is a traditional symphonic/Williamsy kind of thing - definitely NOT hybrid/trailer.
> I have a i7 5820, 32GB RAM, and SSDs.)



I suck at mixing which was one of the main selling points for me. It really sounds good right away and the sections blend together very easily.


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

I'm noticing that when you dial the full spills everything almost sound like is getting closer. Do spills include the spot mics of the selected section as well, or just the rest of the orchestra?


----------



## jbuhler

jamieboo said:


> Hello gang
> 
> So to ask again a question I asked a couple of weeks ago - when everything was still rosy-cheeked speculation - would this library serve as a good upgrade from my EW Hollywood Orchestra Diamond?


I never got the sense that BBCSO was designed to be an upgrade for something like HO Diamond. It will almost certainly be much simpler to use (so long as the plug-in runs well on your rig). From the user demos it seems BBCSO delivers a pretty good sound out of the box without a lot of fussing either on the mixing or programming end. It also has some weak spots that will require other libraries if you need that kind of thing a lot.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Joël Dollié said:


> BBCSO isn't as wet, it has nice early reflections especially if you use the outrigs, but not as much of a tail as air studios stuff. To be honest the roominess/early reflections/recordings is probably the best thing about the library.
> 
> You can't really fake a real sense of space and unity with reverbs that well.



True, the room sound is gorgeous, but it could be closer/drier.  Maybe I have to try with several microphone mixes.


----------



## dzilizzi

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> True, the room sound is gorgeous, but it could be closer/drier.  Maybe I have to try with several microphone mixes.


I don't have this, but I notice it generally loads the mix mic which will be somewhat wet. Have you tried just the close mics? With maybe a few spill mics (since they would be close mics for other instruments)


----------



## Paideia

I do not join this orchestral library any feeling nationalist or cultural in particular, simply because I am not British and not even European. I decided to purchase this library because it represented an opportunity, both for educational and launch discounts and for the product itself: orchestral 'all in one' of respectable quality. I have read all kinds of comments, both positive and negative in some forums, of all kinds. Finally I was able to finish downloading and I tried it for myself. It is a great product, which has to polish some aspects or failures but that is not the case now. I loved its sound, its feeling, etc. I've tried his first strings with the Albion One string ensemble, anyway… it's inspiring, sublime. But what I liked the most, is what I have read that other people dislike: it doesn't sound hyper real, that “HZ” thing, 4000 strings, 800 drums, 2000 timpani, 90 horns, all so much, so that a real orchestra sounds like minor, diminished, poor. This library sounds like an orchestra, wonderfully. Obviously and luckily, it does not sound 'more' than an orchestra, but not less, it is simply the best way to make orchestral mockups that resemble as much as possible a real orchestra, whether or not the BBC. I hope they solve some bugs that I think are real, but in the meantime, I'm enjoying this wonderful library in style. Excuse my lousy 'google English'.


----------



## cqd

*Generic fanboy post*


----------



## CT

Has anyone gotten any further word from support about when the next updates will appear? Trying to be patient and wait for that, to give myself as much chance as possible of actually being able to use this before a much needed computer upgrade... but I am not famously patient.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cqd said:


> *Generic fanboy post*



How so? There are quite a few forum members having success with BBCSO, it's nice to hear some positive reviews for a change. I'm really looking forward to taking it for a test spin tonight.


----------



## cqd

They said 48 hours to me a day or two ago..I was kind of expecting it tomorrow..


----------



## CT

cqd said:


> They said 48 hours to me a day or two ago..I was kind of expecting it tomorrow..



All righty. Thought today might be the day since Thursday is when they typically get things done.


----------



## Zedcars

James H said:


> ...this thread I’m bowing out of it.


Where’s the dislike button when you need it?!


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> Where’s the dislike button when you need it?!


They took it away...along with the No Chilbot one.


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> They took it away...along with the No Chilbot one.


Where’s the dislike button when you need it?!


----------



## SonsofRest

Wolfie2112 said:


> How so? There are quite a few forum members having success with BBCSO, it's nice to hear some positive reviews for a change. I'm really looking forward to taking it for a test spin tonight.



I gave you my review in a PM a couple of days ago, but in the interest of providing another positive review, I'll share it here, too:

The library is on a Samsung external T5 2TB SSD, and I'm running this in Logic 10.4.5 on a 2017 Macbook Pro, 3.5 GHz i7 with 16GB of RAM. Yep, 16 GB. I do a lot of freezing tracks...

*First, the good:*

I can load all instruments with all articulations, with 1 mic position, which is a total of 43 instances. This really surprised me. I assume this is due to the Spitfire plugin handling the RAM/loading differently from Kontakt, because when I try to load a comparable number of instruments in Kontakt, it doesn't end well. I did notice that when I went back to play the first instruments I loaded, it took a few seconds for them to come back to life, so I'm guess it partially unloads them as the RAM starts to fill up.
Unless I'm utterly mistaken, it seems that the Spitfire plugin shares resources across instances. For example, if I load up an instance of Violins 1 with every articulation enabled, and then I create a new track with a new instance, and load up Violins 1 Longs and CS Longs, it doesn't take up any additional RAM.
The individual instruments load pretty quickly from SSD - the larger ones like Violins 1 take about 15 seconds to load (with 1 mic - each additional mic will add to this, obviously).
I think the sound of the library is lovely. As others have stated, it sounds "cohesive". There's an alluring quality to it that I can't quite put my finger on. Also, it's a lot of fun playing with the different mics to shape the sound.

*The not-so-good:*

On a low-spec'd machine like mine, it's difficult to play more than 15 mics at one time (15 instances with 1 mic, 3 instances with 5 mics, etc). Past that point, I start getting note drop-outs. This isn't unique to this library, though - it's pretty consistent with my experience using Kontakt libraries as well. 16GB of RAM just necessitates freezing tracks frequently.
There are a few issues with the scripting/programming. For example, there is a note in the Violins 1 Legato patch which, as the dynamics are lowered, actually swells back UP slightly before dropping again. Presumably this can be fixed with a patch.
There are issues with tuning in the strings in a couple of places. Again, hopefully this can be addressed with a patch.
As many others have noted, the brass doesn't go up to 11. Honestly, I'm fine with this, but I understand how other people might not be. My solution will be to layer in some brass from another library.

Overall, for what it is, I'm very happy with this library, and I say that as an owner of Spitfire's SSO. It truly is a "starting point" for me, because it's the only library I've got that I can completely load in a template.

I hope this helps anyone else with a low-RAM setup who might be considering the library.


----------



## AndyP

For once, a question to someone who's done this before.
I want to save a basissetup with 1-2 mic positions on my mobile hard drive. The hard disk with the complete library stays in the studio.
So I should be able to reduce BBCSO to about, 50 to max 100 GB.
Are there any known problems that await me?


----------



## SonsofRest

AndyP said:


> For once, a question to someone who's done this before.
> I want to save a basissetup with 1-2 mic positions on my mobile hard drive. The hard disk with the complete library stays in the studio.
> So I should be able to reduce BBCSO to about, 50 to max 100 GB.
> Are there any known problems that await me?



I actually asked Spitfire Support this exact question, and was told that it wouldn't work, and that the entire library needs to be present in order to work properly.

However, at least one person in this thread claims to have done it successfully, sooooo....

I'm tempted to try it tonight just to see what happens. If I do, I'll report back.


----------



## AndyP

SonsofRest said:


> I actually asked Spitfire Support this exact question, and was told that it wouldn't work, and that the entire library needs to be present in order to work properly.
> 
> However, at least one person in this thread claims to have done it successfully, sooooo....
> 
> I'm tempted to try it tonight just to see what happens. If I do, I'll report back.


Thanks SonsofRest!


----------



## jonvog

How do you deal with the legatos? I kinda like them, but for example with strings I find it hard to trigger the legato without staccato overlay, but not the portamento. Is there any possibility to change these velocity ranges? Or at least any ressource that says where the crossover-points sit exactly?


----------



## MaxOctane

SonsofRest said:


> Overall, for what it is, I'm very happy with this library, and I say that as an owner of Spitfire's SSO. It truly is a "starting point" for me, because it's the only library I've got that I can completely load in a template.



Can you say more about BBCSO vs SSO?

I'm tempted by the cohesiveness of BBCSO, but I spent over $2000 for full SSO a few years ago (and sadly, haven't used the strings much -- sound was unappealing). 

Is BBCSO just a huge step above SSO in terms of togetherness?


----------



## jbuhler

jonvog said:


> How do you deal with the legatos? I kinda like them, but for example with strings I find it hard to trigger the legato without staccato overlay, but not the portamento. Is there any possibility to change these velocity ranges? Or at least any ressource that says where the crossover-points sit exactly?


If it works like the performance legato of their other libraries, the shorts should not be triggered when notes overlap but only when notes are separate. The first note of a legato series never has portamento, so if you want it to enter without the overlay set velocity low for it, then choose the velocity you want for the legato transition you want on the subsequent notes. If you want the overlay of shorts, make it so notes don't overlap, and then short dynamic should correspond to velocity. I haven't looked at the manual for BBCSO but am only going from the practice of their performance legato patches in other libraries.


----------



## Levon

SonsofRest said:


> I gave you my review in a PM a couple of days ago, but in the interest of providing another positive review, I'll share it here, too:
> 
> The library is on a Samsung external T5 2TB SSD, and I'm running this in Logic 10.4.5 on a 2017 Macbook Pro, 3.5 GHz i7 with 16GB of RAM. Yep, 16 GB. I do a lot of freezing tracks...
> 
> *First, the good:*
> 
> I can load all instruments with all articulations, with 1 mic position, which is a total of 43 instances. This really surprised me. I assume this is due to the Spitfire plugin handling the RAM/loading differently from Kontakt, because when I try to load a comparable number of instruments in Kontakt, it doesn't end well. I did notice that when I went back to play the first instruments I loaded, it took a few seconds for them to come back to life, so I'm guess it partially unloads them as the RAM starts to fill up.
> Unless I'm utterly mistaken, it seems that the Spitfire plugin shares resources across instances. For example, if I load up an instance of Violins 1 with every articulation enabled, and then I create a new track with a new instance, and load up Violins 1 Longs and CS Longs, it doesn't take up any additional RAM.
> The individual instruments load pretty quickly from SSD - the larger ones like Violins 1 take about 15 seconds to load (with 1 mic - each additional mic will add to this, obviously).
> I think the sound of the library is lovely. As others have stated, it sounds "cohesive". There's an alluring quality to it that I can't quite put my finger on. Also, it's a lot of fun playing with the different mics to shape the sound.
> 
> *The not-so-good:*
> 
> On a low-spec'd machine like mine, it's difficult to play more than 15 mics at one time (15 instances with 1 mic, 3 instances with 5 mics, etc). Past that point, I start getting note drop-outs. This isn't unique to this library, though - it's pretty consistent with my experience using Kontakt libraries as well. 16GB of RAM just necessitates freezing tracks frequently.
> There are a few issues with the scripting/programming. For example, there is a note in the Violins 1 Legato patch which, as the dynamics are lowered, actually swells back UP slightly before dropping again. Presumably this can be fixed with a patch.
> There are issues with tuning in the strings in a couple of places. Again, hopefully this can be addressed with a patch.
> As many others have noted, the brass doesn't go up to 11. Honestly, I'm fine with this, but I understand how other people might not be. My solution will be to layer in some brass from another library.
> 
> Overall, for what it is, I'm very happy with this library, and I say that as an owner of Spitfire's SSO. It truly is a "starting point" for me, because it's the only library I've got that I can completely load in a template.
> 
> I hope this helps anyone else with a low-RAM setup who might be considering the library.



Thanks for sharing your review. Before BBCSO was announced I was considering purchasing SSO in the Black Friday/Xmas sale. But BBCSO is now making me question if BBCSO would be a better purchase for my first orchestra package. Any advice?


----------



## cqd

Levon said:


> Thanks for sharing your review. Before BBCSO was announced I was considering purchasing SSO in the Black Friday/Xmas sale. But BBCSO is now making me question if BBCSO would be a better purchase for my first orchestra package. Any advice?



Sso and jb perc..


----------



## dzilizzi

Levon said:


> Thanks for sharing your review. Before BBCSO was announced I was considering purchasing SSO in the Black Friday/Xmas sale. But BBCSO is now making me question if BBCSO would be a better purchase for my first orchestra package. Any advice?


Frankly it depends on your computer. I've found pretty much all of the good libraries - i.e. SSO, Berlin, EWHO, etc... require a better than average computer to work well.


----------



## AndyP

I have only equipped my Test SSD with Mix 1, Tree and Close mics. Additionally the db and IR files. I'm testing this now.

Size 90BG.

The plugin loads ... and it works. The first patch is loaded and only the 3 mics are displayed.
I continue testing.


----------



## AndyP

Interesting, the loading time has shortened considerably. This is logical because only 3 mics are loaded. As it looks, the slimmed down version seems to work without problems, at least until now.
The hard disk has exactly the same name as the main hard disk on which the complete library is located. I didn't even have to repair it. That's very nice, so I have a mobile solution that requires less memory with only 3 mics.


----------



## Denkii

I hope Spitfire does NOT prevent this in a future patch and this turns out to work alright with whatever you throw at the plugin and the remaining mics. Would eliminate the need for an external SSD on my mobile rig.


----------



## jonvog

jbuhler said:


> If it works like the performance legato of their other libraries, the shorts should not be triggered when notes overlap but only when notes are separate. The first note of a legato series never has portamento, so if you want it to enter without the overlay set velocity low for it, then choose the velocity you want for the legato transition you want on the subsequent notes. If you want the overlay of shorts, make it so notes don't overlap, and then short dynamic should correspond to velocity. I haven't looked at the manual for BBCSO but am only going from the practice of their performance legato patches in other libraries.



Thanks! It was me playing sloppily with to little overlap. 
I didn’t have the time yet to do a whole piece with the library, but so far I like most of what I’ve seen and heard.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

jonvog said:


> Thanks! It was me playing sloppily with to little overlap.
> I didn’t have the time yet to do a whole piece with the library, but so far I like most of what I’ve seen and heard.



It's very tricky playing fast lines. How do you manage fast lines without getting the overlays? But maybe this is intended.


----------



## AndyP

Denkii said:


> I hope Spitfire does NOT prevent this in a future patch and this turns out to work alright with whatever you throw at the plugin and the remaining mics. Would eliminate the need for an external SSD on my mobile rig.


I hope not! So this is a great solution. Which mics I keep at the end I still have to try out. But so I don't have to be afraid for the main library when I'm on the road and save myself preparing the hard disk for 2 computers. I continue testing, but don't expect any problems.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

In the manual (page 17) it is said that there is a speed controller. But I think it's not for this library, isn't it? But why mentioning it then? Maybe it's coming later...

I really hoped for that, because I like the speed slider in SCS or SSS for the legatos.


----------



## CT

AndyP said:


> I hope not! So this is a great solution. Which mics I keep at the end I still have to try out. But so I don't have to be afraid for the main library when I'm on the road and save myself preparing the hard disk for 2 computers. I continue testing, but don't expect any problems.



I'm glad to hear this is working for you, and I may try something similar. 

Looking at the samples in the Eric Whitacre Choir, it's a huge list without any kind of subfolders or anything... is BBCSO similar? That must have taken quite a while to comb through and remove what you didn't want.


----------



## AndyP

miket said:


> I'm glad to hear this is working for you, and I may try something similar.
> 
> Looking at the samples in the Eric Whitacre Choir, it's a huge list without any kind of subfolders or anything... is BBCSO similar? That must have taken quite a while to comb through and remove what you didn't want.


In BBCSO this is very well named. At the end of the filename is always which mic it is. So I filtered and only copied the one with the ending I wanted.

CL01 - close mic 1
MI01 - mix 1
TR01 - Tree 1
and so on.


----------



## colony nofi

@AndyP Thanks for all this information. Given I only have a single 4TB SSD for work on the road, this seems like a great solution! I'm watching this with great interest.


----------



## Jett Hitt

I am very happy with the positive feedback that I am starting to hear in this thread and elsewhere. For a while the negativity was deafening. I’m sorry the Windows users have had a bumpy ride, but as a Mac user I can honestly say that this is the first time it wasn’t us—ever, I mean ever as in since the beginning of time. Hopefully when @paulthomson and @christianhenson get things sorted, they’ll start thinking about an expansion pack to fill in a few holes in the percussion and a piano. I haven’t even gotten to play with my copy because it’s harvest time, but I’d already sign up for an expansion.


----------



## VinRice

NoamL said:


> PS: Stravinsky once said there are two kinds of music - "the good kind, and Bruckner." Even 100 years ago trailer composers were getting no respect!!!




Oh good man Igor! I wasn't aware of that quote. I absolutely HATE Bruckner. I've hated his work since I was about six years old.


----------



## EricValette

AndyP said:


> In BBCSO this is very well named. At the end of the filename is always which mic it is. So I filtered and only copied the one with the ending I wanted.
> 
> CL01 - close mic 1
> MI01 - mix 1
> TR01 - Tree 1
> and so on.




Note that the same technique that Andy used for BBCSO can be used without any problem for Hans Zimmer Strings (I don't own EWC). The names of the microphones also appear very clearly at the end of the sample files. For trying a few months ago, it works perfectly and saves a LOT of space. Loading times are also much faster.

The only question I have is whether deleting these sample files could be a problem when applying an update of the library and/or the plugin? In doubt, while waiting to test this, I kept a copy of the deleted files on an old external HD to put them back in case...


----------



## SonsofRest

AndyP said:


> Interesting, the loading time has shortened considerably. This is logical because only 3 mics are loaded. As it looks, the slimmed down version seems to work without problems, at least until now.
> The hard disk has exactly the same name as the main hard disk on which the complete library is located. I didn't even have to repair it. That's very nice, so I have a mobile solution that requires less memory with only 3 mics.



Well, I came back to report success, but looks like you guys are way ahead of me. I'm glad it works!


----------



## SonsofRest

MaxOctane said:


> Can you say more about BBCSO vs SSO?
> 
> I'm tempted by the cohesiveness of BBCSO, but I spent over $2000 for full SSO a few years ago (and sadly, haven't used the strings much -- sound was unappealing).
> 
> Is BBCSO just a huge step above SSO in terms of togetherness?



I'm only a hobbyist, by no means an expert, but it definitely sounds more like a single unit than SSO does to me. Is it a huge step? I'm less certain. I do like the sound of the strings in BBCSO better than SSS by a fair margin, but I don't have the extra mics for SSS. At the same time, I prefer the strings in SCS to BBCSO...it's just so subjective. I'm sorry, I wish I could give you a better answer!


----------



## AndyP

colony nofi said:


> @AndyP Thanks for all this information. Given I only have a single 4TB SSD for work on the road, this seems like a great solution! I'm watching this with great interest.


I have now tested all patches and everything works as usual. Zero problems. This is really cool, so everything I need fits on my mobile ssd. I get by with 3 mics and the loading times are also better. I guess if all mics are there they will be loaded in the background, no matter if you have activated them or not. Something is happening in the background and maybe this explains the long loading times of some users.


----------



## SonsofRest

Levon said:


> Thanks for sharing your review. Before BBCSO was announced I was considering purchasing SSO in the Black Friday/Xmas sale. But BBCSO is now making me question if BBCSO would be a better purchase for my first orchestra package. Any advice?



This would be a difficult decision for me, as I like them both very much. I suppose it would come down to whether you prefer the sound of Lyndhurst or Maida Vale, and whether you prefer SSO's comprehensive articulations or BBCSO's comprehensive mic selection and cohesiveness.

Up above was mentioned the combination of SSO and Spitfire Percussion (Joby Burgess). That's a great set, and I used that for a long time very happily. As great as it is, though, I'm excited to have a library now that I can load completely in a template without my laptop imploding, and it sounds great.


----------



## cqd

So we could knock it down to one mic and it would be ~30gb?


----------



## Cormast

cqd said:


> So we could knock it down to one mic and it would be ~30gb?


Absolutly


----------



## Noeticus

If you knock it down to one mic AND only MONO, then....


----------



## Noeticus

When will the ghost of post 6000 reveal itself on this dark Halloween night?


----------



## SonsofRest

cqd said:


> So we could knock it down to one mic and it would be ~30gb?



Yep! Mix 1 by itself is 33 GB, works great, just gotta remember to also copy over the DB and IR file in each folder of samples.

I'm so glad this works ... I need hard drive space WAY more than I need all 20 mic options...


----------



## dzilizzi

What's nice is it looks like you can choose the mics you want this way for each instrument. So maybe you want the brass spill for the winds only, along with the main mix. Really great.

Edit: auto correct doesn't understand my inability to type


----------



## dcoscina

I went through some of Daniel James’ videos and I do like the tonal quality of the BBC library, especially the strings. Hoping SF releases a lite version with a single mic down the line as that’s the only real avenue I would have to step into this.


----------



## SonsofRest

dcoscina said:


> I went through some of Daniel James’ videos and I do like the tonal quality of the BBC library, especially the strings. Hoping SF releases a lite version with a single mic down the line as that’s the only real avenue I would have to step into this.



I'm not judging, because everyone has their own taste and opinion, and not everything is for everyone (and that's good!), but I'm curious: what kind of tone do you look for in a library, strings or otherwise? What's your favorite or go-to library?


----------



## CT

EricValette said:


> Note that the same technique that Andy used for BBCSO can be used without any problem for Hans Zimmer Strings (I don't own EWC).



I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work for the choir as well. The samples are all named clearly there too, but they're all in the same folder so it just looks a little more daunting to grab every one you want. I might go ahead and remove some of the mic positions from that while I'm at it.



SonsofRest said:


> I'm so glad this works ... I need hard drive space WAY more than I need all 20 mic options...



There's a "completist" part of me that doesn't like getting rid of mic positions like that, but storage space is also much more of a priority for me than some of the options my libraries have.


----------



## SonsofRest

miket said:


> There's a "completist" part of me that doesn't like getting rid of mic positions like that, but storage space is also much more of a priority for me than some of the options my libraries have.



Yeah, it drives me a little crazy, too. I'll keep the full library on an external SSD, but least I can have one of the mixes and a spill mic on my laptop's internal drive, and still have room for a few other things. I like being able to just grab the laptop and be ready to go without hooking up a million little doodads, which is also one of the reasons why I dislike iLok.


----------



## Saigen

AndyP said:


> In BBCSO this is very well named. At the end of the filename is always which mic it is. So I filtered and only copied the one with the ending I wanted.
> 
> CL01 - close mic 1
> MI01 - mix 1
> TR01 - Tree 1
> and so on.







__





Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


Alright. So the way to eliminate other mic positions is to simply do the following. In your BBC folder "F:\Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra\Samples\_Strings" you can find all mic positions with their respective samples. First, a chart. CL01 = Close MI01 = Mix 1 MI02 = Mix 2 TR01 = Tree...




vi-control.net





Make sure you keep the Round robins as well for the mic position


----------



## Stevie

Here's the BBC Strings version of the "Fawkes the Phoenix".
Strings only! And I didn't put a lot of effort in getting the mockup right.
I just took @NoamL MIDI file and rewrote the controller data and edited most of the velocities.


----------



## Saigen

Yesterday Spitfire Support sent me an email with a 1.0.4 patch that would allegedly solve the problem for Windows 10 users. It didn't cause a dent for me - how is it for everyone else?

And also, each time I address the notion of wanting to either get a refund or swap the library for something else since it is unusable for me, Spitfire Support seems to only want to continue troubleshooting with me rather than to give a proper response toward my request. It's almost as if I'm talking to a goddamn bot if anything else. Purchasing something a week ago and having constant clicks and pops and delay due to the RAM overloading is an example of a faulty product, after all. Not that everyone suffers, but even so; the promised product wasn't delivered.

I'm hoping Christian Henson or Paul Thomson (preferably both) sees this post.


----------



## cqd

Saigen said:


> Yesterday Spitfire Support sent me an email with a 1.0.4 patch that would allegedly solve the problem for Windows 10 users. It didn't cause a dent for me - how is it for everyone else?
> 
> And also, each time I address the notion of wanting to either get a refund or swap the library for something else since it is unusable for me, Spitfire Support seems to only want to continue troubleshooting with me rather than to give a proper response toward my request. It's almost as if I'm talking to a goddamn bot if anything else. Purchasing something a week ago and having constant clicks and pops and delay due to the RAM overloading is an example of a faulty product, after all. Not that everyone suffers, but even so; the promised product wasn't delivered.
> 
> I'm hoping Christian Henson or Paul Thomson (preferably both) sees this post.



Didn't cause a dent as in didn't help at all?..I'm waiting for this too..


----------



## Saigen

cqd said:


> Didn't cause a dent as in didn't help at all?..I'm waiting for this too..



Didn't help at all, yeah. Didn't you get a mail as well?

I was told I'd get a VST3 version as well as a VST2 version for it. Turns out the VST3 is still 1.0.3 while the VST2 is 1.0.4. Now that's just sloppy in my honest opinion.


----------



## cqd

No, I got nothing yet..

Sloppy kind of encapsulates the entire affair really at this stage..


----------



## dcoscina

SonsofRest said:


> I'm not judging, because everyone has their own taste and opinion, and not everything is for everyone (and that's good!), but I'm curious: what kind of tone do you look for in a library, strings or otherwise? What's your favorite or go-to library?


I have all of the usual libraries. When Hollywood Strings Diamond first came out, I really was impressed with the tone mostly because you could adjust the vibrato rate. I think static vibrato is a dead giveaway for sampled strings. Additionally, too much of it lends a synthy air to the quality of the string sample. 

I like Audio Imperia's string tone quite a bit. Also a big fan of CSS though I wish Alex would add an incremental knob for vibrato rather than On and Off. 

Let's be clear hear, and no disrespect to DJ- his style of music is not my cup of tea. Andy Blaney's stuff knocks me out because it's informed by 20th century orchestral repertoire which I also dig. However, DJ's walk through allowed for a closer approximation of what the sounds are like when you boot them (but for Pete's sake Daniel, get some SSDs man! Load times were awful because of the HDD- was he even using 7200rmp? Lol). 

There's something very organic and not over produced about the sound of BBC that struck me when DJ was playing through them. As a smaller entity, perhaps down the line, BBC orchestra would fit nicely in my set which is comprised mostly of OT, CineSamples, Project Sam, EW, and a fair bit of SFA. A single mic version or BBC Lite would also cut down on the bulk and memory footprint. I seldom if ever use spot mics even when I have the option.


----------



## dzilizzi

The problem with Windows computers is there are so many permutations you can have and maybe your drivers aren't actually happy but are faking it up until you try to run the Spitfire player. It is very frustrating for all. And probably why Apple limits the computers it makes and how far backwards compatible they will be. 

Unfortunately, I like my permutations. So I'm really hoping they can figure this out so when I buy it next year, it will work perfectly.


----------



## Zedcars

Noeticus said:


> If you knock it down to one mic AND only MONO, then....


I’ve discovered through careful testing that the lowest memory footprint is no Mics at all. I’ll post an example once I’ve finished my 4’33’’ mock-up.


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> I’ve discovered through careful testing that the lowest memory footprint is no Mics at all. I’ll post an example once I’ve finished my 4’33’’ mock-up.


Does it even play? I shouldn't laugh, because if it does play, that would be really cool. And, does I TV give you the IRs for Maida Vale?


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> Does it even play? I shouldn't laugh, because if it does play, that would be really cool. And, does I TV give you the IRs for Maida Vale?


I’ve been feeding in some lovely lines and this mic combo lends a gorgeous velvety quality to the strings. My only complaint is the levels are too low. So I boosted by 180dB and I can now hear the control room...such filthy language!


----------



## PerryD

Zedcars said:


> I’ve been feeding in some lovely lines and this mic combo lends a gorgeous velvety quality to the strings. My only complaint is the levels are too low. So I boosted by 180dB and I can now hear the control room...such filthy language!


 No doubt the folks in the control room were "very excited".


----------



## staypuft

Saigen said:


> Yesterday Spitfire Support sent me an email with a 1.0.4 patch that would allegedly solve the problem for Windows 10 users. It didn't cause a dent for me - how is it for everyone else?
> 
> And also, each time I address the notion of wanting to either get a refund or swap the library for something else since it is unusable for me, Spitfire Support seems to only want to continue troubleshooting with me rather than to give a proper response toward my request. It's almost as if I'm talking to a goddamn bot if anything else. Purchasing something a week ago and having constant clicks and pops and delay due to the RAM overloading is an example of a faulty product, after all. Not that everyone suffers, but even so; the promised product wasn't delivered.
> 
> I'm hoping Christian Henson or Paul Thomson (preferably both) sees this post.



What a trainwreck. So the fix doesn't work.......great. Now what? 

I bought into the whole ::universal starting point:: pitch thinking it would improve my workflow however this has been the worst experience I've ever had with a sample library. 200$ extra expecting to plug the SSD and get right into action. Nope, the only thing this library managed to do was to waste a week of my life. The legato scripting is execrable, the inconsistencies are just too much to keep up with. Shorts are poorly programmed, rendering them almost useless. Brass section is preposterous, how they managed to screwed that one up is beyond me. The best players in the world in one hell of a room......unusable. Don't ask.

While a part of me wants to keep trying to fix their dodgy editing I'm just tired of fighting the Spitfire player. I don't care what Christian or Paul say, whoever coded this has never touched a Windows computer in his::her entire life. The only way to save BBCSO is to hire Alex Wallbank or Jasper Blunk and rework this mess from the ground up. 

If you are used to working with Cinematic Studio like I am, BBCSO will make you look back and realize you already had the perfect library catered to the professional composer. I wish I could go back in time and save myself from all this misery.


----------



## cqd

What were they thinking releasing a sample library going into Mercury retrograde..


----------



## AndyP

Saigen said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra
> 
> 
> Alright. So the way to eliminate other mic positions is to simply do the following. In your BBC folder "F:\Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra\Samples\_Strings" you can find all mic positions with their respective samples. First, a chart. CL01 = Close MI01 = Mix 1 MI02 = Mix 2 TR01 = Tree...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Make sure you keep the Round robins as well for the mic position


So many entries. So I didn't see you posting exactly the same thing shortly before.
Sorry! It works, that helps a lot of users.

Thank you!


----------



## star.keys

staypuft said:


> What a trainwreck. So the fix doesn't work.......great. Now what?
> 
> I bought into the whole ::universal starting point:: pitch thinking it would improve my workflow however this has been the worst experience I've ever had with a sample library. 200$ extra expecting to plug the SSD and get right into action. Nope, the only thing this library managed to do was to waste a week of my life. The legato scripting is execrable, the inconsistencies are just too much to keep up with. Shorts are poorly programmed, rendering them almost useless. Brass section is preposterous, how they managed to screwed that one up is beyond me. The best players in the world in one hell of a room......unusable. Don't ask.
> 
> While a part of me wants to keep trying to fix their dodgy editing I'm just tired of fighting the Spitfire player. I don't care what Christian or Paul say, whoever coded this has never touched a Windows computer in his::her entire life. The only way to save BBCSO is to hire Alex Wallbank or Jasper Blunk and rework this mess from the ground up.
> 
> If you are used to working with Cinematic Studio like I am, BBCSO will make you look back and realize you already had the perfect library catered to the professional composer. I wish I could go back in time and save myself from all this misery.


This echos my experience with HZ Strings. They didn’t seem to have tested it on latest windows machines. Then we fixed these together with their support team and me providing some log files. Finally worked and then happy days ahead. They make an effort to fix issues, although initially they denied Windows issues saying that you are the only one in the works having issues, until more people start creating noise on forum. My suggestion is, since you have burnt your cash already and there is no way to go back (I think there is, but I won’t start that topic here), work with them and make it work for you. They will have to fix these issues anyway because I’m not going to buy until conform that it works on your PC, assuming they want my money.

Despite of that, I think that they are some of the most responsive people when it comes to support. Their management doesn’t seem to be learning from past experience and there is no real solution to address (Windows) incompetence but hiring the right tech and QA people, assuming marketing isn’t overpowering them.
I never get excited when I hear them getting excited. I absolutely get excited when other users get excited. It is far better to spend a little more later than trying to save something and lose everything while Pre-ordering.


----------



## Grilled Cheese

staypuft said:


> If you are used to working with Cinematic Studio like I am, BBCSO will make you look back and realize you already had the perfect library catered to the professional composer. I wish I could go back in time and save myself from all this misery.


This.

CSS sets such a high standard that it has made me really intolerant of imperfection. Alex takes such a long time to release his libraries, but the results speak for themselves. He has built a brand I can trust. 

The BBCSO library has a vibe that I find very enticing, but it will drive me up the wall if it falls short in the areas in which CSS excels - superb consistency, wide dynamics, user friendly GUI, plugin stability.

I hereby vow never to whinge again about how slowly the Cinematic Studio Series is taking to produce. Quality control is so important, and clearly worth waiting for.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Zedcars said:


> I’ve discovered through careful testing that the lowest memory footprint is no Mics at all. I’ll post an example once I’ve finished my 4’33’’ mock-up.


Unloading ALL articulatutions saves lots of RAM to. Seriously, try it!


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

dzilizzi said:


> The problem with Windows computers is there are so many permutations you can have and maybe your drivers aren't actually happy but are faking it up until you try to run the Spitfire player. It is very frustrating for all. And probably why Apple limits the computers it makes and how far backwards compatible they will be.
> 
> Unfortunately, I like my permutations. So I'm really hoping they can figure this out so when I buy it next year, it will work perfectly.


It is true there are lot of possibilities here. But it is not more complex to write software on Windows than on other operating systems. (Not even to talk about many developers put a big warning out for upgrading to the latest Catalina. It seems problems are not bound to the type of OS).

My problem with Apple is: pricing in the Apple world is just not right.
Let's have a look at a Mac Mini:
Basic price with 8GB RAM and 128GB SSD: 900€
This seems fair to me. An Intel NUC8i7HVK or NUC8i7HNK is in a similar range (ok without OS, RAM and SSD).

Now lets upgrade to:
32GB RAM (which has a value of 200€, Apple will get it cheaper)
1TB SSD (market price 100€, Apple can get it cheaper too)
Resulting end price for this Mac Mini? -> 2400€ !!!  (Äh, Apple?, Sorry?)


----------



## Zero&One

staypuft said:


> What a trainwreck. So the fix doesn't work.......great. Now what?



Hmmm maybe they release another fix. That's how these things normally work...


----------



## Zero&One

Anyway, information for others on Mac (sorry PC users)
Done some timing tests removing different mics. Here are my load times:

Loaded Logic
31 instances BBC

2:26 default setup
Closed Logic
Atmos removed
2:10
Closed Logic
mono removed
1:50
Closed Logic
leader removed
1:52
Closed Logic
Mids removed
1:59

All above times under 1 OS session. So system restart done

<Restart>

Logic loaded again
2:54

Added mono, leader, mids back. Essentially back at 2:10 Atmos stage

<Restart>

2:37

Added Atmos back

<Restart>

2:25

So from my system it appears I do save a ton of space but the timings do not improve. As I have the SA SSD the space isn't really an issue. So I'm leaving them.

I'm off before all the CSS crowd grab their pitchforks
Bye


----------



## AllanH

What I've done to speed up load-times and memory consumption is to remove all but the Legato patch from each of the instruments in my template. BBCSO then consumes a bit less than half the memory and loads a lot quicker. I then add articulations as I need them. I generally separate longs and shorts anyway, so this is not a change in workflow.

I can see why Spitfire loads everything, but most of the articulations are not immediately needed all the time.


----------



## Bluemount Score

James H said:


> I'm off before all the CSS crowd grab their pitchforks
> Bye


----------



## Jett Hitt

Manuel Stumpf said:


> My problem with Apple is: pricing in the Apple world is just not right.
> Let's have a look at a Mac Mini:
> Basic price with 8GB RAM and 128GB SSD: 900€
> This seems fair to me. An Intel NUC8i7HVK or NUC8i7HNK is in a similar range (ok without OS, RAM and SSD).
> 
> Now lets upgrade to:
> 32GB RAM (which has a value of 200€, Apple will get it cheaper)
> 1TB SSD (market price 100€, Apple can get it cheaper too)
> Resulting end price for this Mac Mini? -> 2400€ !!!  (Äh, Apple?, Sorry?)



I started using my first Mac in 1988. I love Macs. I love the Mac OS. But Apple? I hate those greedy money grubbing bastards. Tim Cook would raise the price of his grandmother’s insulin if he thought it would make Apple stock go up. One need look no further than the new Mac Pro, which starts at $6k for a totally stripped machine with 8 cores and 32 GB of RAM. If you want a decent machine comparable to the old 5,1 Mac Pro, you’re probably looking at $10k. It has forced me into the world of Hackintosh.


----------



## redlester

Manuel Stumpf said:


> My problem with Apple is: pricing in the Apple world is just not right.
> Let's have a look at a Mac Mini:
> Basic price with 8GB RAM and 128GB SSD: 900€
> This seems fair to me. An Intel NUC8i7HVK or NUC8i7HNK is in a similar range (ok without OS, RAM and SSD).
> 
> Now lets upgrade to:
> 32GB RAM (which has a value of 200€, Apple will get it cheaper)
> 1TB SSD (market price 100€, Apple can get it cheaper too)
> Resulting end price for this Mac Mini? -> 2400€ !!!  (Äh, Apple?, Sorry?)



I can get the i7 6 core Mac Mini with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD for £1,249 in the UK.
I don't need a 1TB internal drive as all my space hungry stuff can sit on external drives.
I don't need the Apple RAM because I can upgrade myself to 64GB for just under £300.
Total price £1,549

That's still expensive to my mind, but nowhere near as bad as paying the Apple tax for RAM and storage drives.

(Similar pricing arguments could be applied to the i9 iMac which can take up to 128GB RAM, although obviously you're paying for a screen you may not need as well in that case).


----------



## redlester

hittjett said:


> One need look no further than the new Mac Pro



I wonder if there is a problem with the release of these - the Apple site still says "Coming This Autumn". It's now November so they haven't got long left.


----------



## dzilizzi

redlester said:


> I can get the i7 6 core Mac Mini with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD for £1,249 in the UK.
> I don't need a 1TB internal drive as all my space hungry stuff can sit on external drives.
> I don't need the Apple RAM because I can upgrade myself to 64GB for just under £300.
> Total price £1,549
> 
> That's still expensive to my mind, but nowhere near as bad as paying the Apple tax for RAM and storage drives.
> 
> (Similar pricing arguments could be applied to the i9 iMac which can take up to 128GB RAM, although obviously you're paying for a screen you may not need as well in that case).


But very few of the Macs have been user upgradeable. At least in the last few years when I could actually afford one. I really like to be able to upgrade my drive as I need to.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

redlester said:


> I can get the i7 6 core Mac Mini with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD for £1,249 in the UK.
> I don't need a 1TB internal drive as all my space hungry stuff can sit on external drives.
> I don't need the Apple RAM because I can upgrade myself to 64GB for just under £300.
> Total price £1,549
> 
> That's still expensive to my mind, but nowhere near as bad as paying the Apple tax for RAM and storage drives.



But if you earn $$ from composing music, and that Mac mini was going to get you through every deadline for the next five years, would you pay it? I certainly would. As a hobbyist, it's a lot of money to justify, but for a professional, I never understood the bickering.


----------



## vitocorleone123

Wolfie2112 said:


> But if you earn $$ from composing music, and that Mac mini was going to get you through every deadline for the next five years, would you pay it? I certainly would. As a hobbyist, it's a lot of money to justify, but for a professional, I never understood the bickering.



Purely devil's advocate type thing here, but the equally viable alternative would be to spend money on a PC (or maybe Hackintosh if you're beholden to Logic), and use the left over money on more instruments/effects that'll help you land the next job or complete the current one faster.

(I'm a hobbyist, though, so ymmv)


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

dzilizzi said:


> The problem with Windows computers is there are so many permutations you can have and maybe your drivers aren't actually happy but are faking it up until you try to run the Spitfire player. It is very frustrating for all. And probably why Apple limits the computers it makes and how far backwards compatible they will be.
> 
> Unfortunately, I like my permutations. So I'm really hoping they can figure this out so when I buy it next year, it will work perfectly.



And here lies part of the issue with Windows users. It's almost a guarantee that every Windows user has a completely different set of components, which is why is often difficult for a developer to pinpoint specific issues. On the other hand, a late 2013 i7 MacBook Pro (for example) is going to have the exact same components as every late 2013 i7 MacBook Pro on the planet. There are just too many things that can go wrong on a Windows machine, especially custom builds. Not saying they aren't good machines, there are just too many things that can go wrong (I've been down that road!).


----------



## redlester

Wolfie2112 said:


> But if you earn $$ from composing music, and that Mac mini was going to get you through every deadline for the next five years, would you pay it? I certainly would. As a hobbyist, it's a lot of money to justify, but for a professional, I never understood the bickering.



Agree. I'm a hobbyist, hence it's a lot of money whatever I get (Mac or PC). Was PC for 30 years but would never go back now I've tried Mac.

Think this is the wrong thread to start yet another Mac/PC debate though. Need to get it back round to chocolate.


----------



## dzilizzi

Wolfie2112 said:


> And here lies part of the issue with Windows users. It's almost a guarantee that every Windows user has a completely different set of components, which is why is often difficult for a developer to pinpoint specific issues. On the other hand, a late 2013 i7 MacBook Pro (for example) is going to have the exact same components as every late 2013 i7 MacBook Pro on the planet. There are just too many things that can go wrong on a Windows machine, especially custom builds. Not saying they aren't good machines, there are just too many things that can go wrong (I've been down that road!).


And this is why I always give companies that normally use Macs a bit of a break when creating a Windows app. I always wonder if it occurs to them there are so many options in PC land after working for years on a Mac. As long as it works on a majority of the PC's and they are willing to work with others, it is good. Frustrating for those with the issues and I can see at some point it will not work on some computer because they can't recreate the error to fix it, depending on how "special" the machine is (aka does this happen with every new app or is this one different?)

Now where's the chocolate? I need to add it to my coffee. It tastes kind of blah today and needs help.


----------



## Bluemount Score

The only complete symphonic orchestral collection I owned before is the NI Symphony Series (e.g. Albion ONE or the Arks doesn't count).
Just compared both woodwind sections to eachother and I honestly don't know how I could ever make good use out of the NISS flute again, after hearing it side by side to the BBCSO flute... such a major difference. Single advantage is the dynamic range of the Symphony Series.
I bought BBCSO for $595. NISS woodwinds alone is $499 (got it in Komplete however).


----------



## Noeticus

Ladies and Gentlemen...

Post 6000 is just moments away!!!


----------



## synkrotron

Noeticus said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen...
> 
> Post 6000 is just moments away!!!



Really?


----------



## Alex Fraser

dzilizzi said:


> Now where's the chocolate? I need to add it to my coffee. It tastes kind of blah today and needs help.


We have stacks in the house. We brought a ton for trick or treat - and no-one knocked on the door.
#winning


----------



## Noeticus

synkrotron said:


> Really?



I'm still not sure what reality is.


----------



## synkrotron

Noeticus said:


> I'm still not sure what reality is.



Remember, there is no spoon...


----------



## Noeticus

synkrotron said:


> Remember, there is no spoon...



But, I just heated up a bowl of Matrix soup....


----------



## Alex Fraser

Noeticus said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen...
> 
> Post 6000 is just moments away!!!


----------



## porrasm

I will try to time this correctly to get the 6000th post
EDIT: I succeeded 👍🏼


----------



## CT

Ok, I'll buy it. Anything less than 6000 and I may as well have gone back to GPO.


----------



## synkrotron

Noeticus said:


> But, I just heated up a bowl of Matrix soup....



That is, unfortunate


----------



## Noeticus

BINGO


----------



## Alex Fraser

miket said:


> Ok, I'll buy it. Anything less than 6000 and I may as well have gone back to GPO.


Cool, you can be my guinea pig!


----------



## vitocorleone123

Wolfie2112 said:


> And here lies part of the issue with Windows users. It's almost a guarantee that every Windows user has a completely different set of components, which is why is often difficult for a developer to pinpoint specific issues. On the other hand, a late 2013 i7 MacBook Pro (for example) is going to have the exact same components as every late 2013 i7 MacBook Pro on the planet. There are just too many things that can go wrong on a Windows machine, especially custom builds. Not saying they aren't good machines, there are just too many things that can go wrong (I've been down that road!).



Yeah. To each their own - you get what works best for you so you can get the job (or hobby) done. I also use an MBP every day as well as a Windows PC I built. I've had as many problems with both Macs and PCs I've built, which is to say very few - and more with Apple lately, honestly, even though years ago it was the other way around. But enough about that - I won't chime in again on that as it's OT.

I really was meaning to agree with you on business expenses.  Here, have some candy...........


----------



## CT

Alex Fraser said:


> Cool, you can be my guinea pig!



I haven't even hit purchase yet, and already the plugin has melted my computer, Paul and Christian appeared and violently mugged me while muttering something about fortissimo horns, and Andy Blaney tore up all my scores.


----------



## Alex Fraser

miket said:


> ..and Andy Blaney tore up all my scores.


You mean you actually saw him? I thought he/she was only a myth..


----------



## Mike Fox

hittjett said:


> I started using my first Mac in 1988. I love Macs. I love the Mac OS. But Apple? I hate those greedy money grubbing bastards. Tim Cook would raise the price of his grandmother’s insulin if he thought it would make Apple stock go up. One need look no further than the new Mac Pro, which starts at $6k for a totally stripped machine with 8 cores and 32 GB of RAM. If you want a decent machine comparable to the old 5,1 Mac Pro, you’re probably looking at $10k. It has forced me into the world of Hackintosh.


It's actually interesting to see the new mac pro going back to the ways of the previous "cheese grater". Makes sense too, since those were the best machines Apple ever produced. 

I've been using a 2008 Mac Pro 3,1 with 4 SSDs, 8 cores, and 64 gb of ram for all less than 1k. It's been a tank. These computers can run off of server ram too, which is dirt cheap.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Mike Fox said:


> It's actually interesting to see the new mac pro going back to the ways of the previous "cheese grater". Makes sense too, since those were the best machines Apple ever produced.
> 
> I've been using a 2008 Mac Pro 3,1 with 4 SSDs, 8 cores, and 64 gb of ram for all less than 1k. It's been a tank. These computers can run off of server ram too, which is dirt cheap.


Oh I’m all about the new MP in every way except price. The machine is a shockingly pleasant surprise after that trash can debacle.


----------



## Patrick.K

Mike Fox said:


> It's actually interesting to see the new mac pro going back to the ways of the previous "cheese grater". Makes sense too, since those were the best machines Apple ever produced.
> 
> I've been using a 2008 Mac Pro 3,1 with 4 SSDs, 8 cores, and 64 gb of ram for all less than 1k. It's been a tank. These computers can run off of server ram too, which is dirt cheap.



Mac it's like a Panzer, or an US Shermanmy... Imac 27 runs like a clock since 2011...
I hope he will take a little more


----------



## Bluemount Score

I wonder if people (especially non-BBCSO-owners) have already muted this thread because it's basically always on top.


----------



## Iostream

Wolfie2112 said:


> And here lies part of the issue with Windows users. It's almost a guarantee that every Windows user has a completely different set of components, which is why is often difficult for a developer to pinpoint specific issues. On the other hand, a late 2013 i7 MacBook Pro (for example) is going to have the exact same components as every late 2013 i7 MacBook Pro on the planet. There are just too many things that can go wrong on a Windows machine, especially custom builds. Not saying they aren't good machines, there are just too many things that can go wrong (I've been down that road!).



As an OS kernel developer for my day job, this is not as relevant as you think. I mean it is to OS X and Windows kernel developers, but not so much for userspace application developers. Userspace applications are accessing disks, memory, etc through systemcalls. Applications themselves don't need to much care what hardware lies underneath. Exceptions here tend to only realy matter in graphics or drivers which don't comply to a standard. An audio application knows how to talk ASIO, it doesn't have to care about the specific hardware underneath. Memory is allocated/freed the same way on whatever hardware lies underneath. Either there is enough there or there is not, and the kernel will tell you. Applications don't have to care about what particular type or speed of memory is present. Different CPUs can have different features/capabilities, but there are standards around all of this, and the application doesn't have to care about the model, as long as the feature set it expects to use is present.
Yes, a lot can go wrong at the OS kernel level, and in userspace for games which use graphics APIs, but writing a stable audio application for Windows is not much more difficult than writing one for Apple, and is actually easier in some ways.


----------



## synkrotron

Bluemount Score said:


> I wonder if people (especially non-BBCSO-owners) have already muted this thread because it's basically always on top.



Not me.

I'm addicted.

In fact I think I need to seek professional help...


----------



## Noeticus

Do I need professional help if I keep refreshing this page?

I'm on a PC, so it's press F5 to refresh, over and over again.


----------



## Noeticus

Also, what Dynamic is this? 

Aaaahhhhhhh !!!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Iostream said:


> As an OS kernel developer for my day job, this is not as relevant as you think. I mean it is to OS X and Windows kernel developers, but not so much for userspace application developers. Userspace applications are accessing disks, memory, etc through systemcalls. Applications themselves don't need to much care what hardware lies underneath. Exceptions here tend to only realy matter in graphics or drivers which don't comply to a standard. An audio application knows how to talk ASIO, it doesn't have to care about the specific hardware underneath. Memory is allocated/freed the same way on whatever hardware lies underneath. Either there is enough there or there is not, and the kernel will tell you. Applications don't have to care about what particular type or speed of memory is present. Different CPUs can have different features/capabilities, but there are standards around all of this, and the application doesn't have to care about the model, as long as the feature set it expects to use is present.
> Yes, a lot can go wrong at the OS kernel level, and in userspace for games which use graphics APIs, but writing a stable audio application for Windows is not much more difficult than writing one for Apple, and is actually easier in some ways.



Of course, but a simple hardware component in a PC can also cause issues, there’s just no universal consistency across the board. There are also a lot of people that monkey around building their own systems, only to be plagued by issues as a result. Yes, I’m one of those who went down that road years ago....live and learn.


----------



## staypuft

star.keys said:


> This echos my experience with HZ Strings. They didn’t seem to have tested it on latest windows machines. Then we fixed these together with their support team and me providing some log files. Finally worked and then happy days ahead. They make an effort to fix issues, although initially they denied Windows issues saying that you are the only one in the works having issues, until more people start creating noise on forum. My suggestion is, since you have burnt your cash already and there is no way to go back (I think there is, but I won’t start that topic here), work with them and make it work for you. They will have to fix these issues anyway because I’m not going to buy until conform that it works on your PC, assuming they want my money.
> 
> Despite of that, I think that they are some of the most responsive people when it comes to support. Their management doesn’t seem to be learning from past experience and there is no real solution to address (Windows) incompetence but hiring the right tech and QA people, assuming marketing isn’t overpowering them.
> I never get excited when I hear them getting excited. I absolutely get excited when other users get excited. It is far better to spend a little more later than trying to save something and lose everything while Pre-ordering.



Thank you. It's hard to have a meaningful conversation when the thread is overrun by aspiring comedians with too much free time and an unhealthy obsession for chocolate. You would think it's in their interest as well to improve the library but I think jokes are more important. It gives the impression that the community does not care, so Spitfire can get away with a half-assed solution like they usually do.

Spitfire should have a 7 day refund period for faulty libraries like BBCSO. It's the honest thing to do. Yet they deny every request. I can't even exchange BBCSO for store credit. What are your thoughts about it?

As for working with them, I've tried I really did. However, it's not fair to expect your costumers to do beta work for you. Looks like all their QA budget went straight to marketing. The days of Bespoke glory are long gone.


----------



## redlester

porrasm said:


> I will try to time this correctly to get the 6000th post
> EDIT: I succeeded 👍🏼



Hmm. Yet there was no excitement at all when we reached page 300 earlier today!

#justice4page300


----------



## dzilizzi

Iostream said:


> As an OS kernel developer for my day job, this is not as relevant as you think. I mean it is to OS X and Windows kernel developers, but not so much for userspace application developers. Userspace applications are accessing disks, memory, etc through systemcalls. Applications themselves don't need to much care what hardware lies underneath. Exceptions here tend to only realy matter in graphics or drivers which don't comply to a standard. An audio application knows how to talk ASIO, it doesn't have to care about the specific hardware underneath. Memory is allocated/freed the same way on whatever hardware lies underneath. Either there is enough there or there is not, and the kernel will tell you. Applications don't have to care about what particular type or speed of memory is present. Different CPUs can have different features/capabilities, but there are standards around all of this, and the application doesn't have to care about the model, as long as the feature set it expects to use is present.
> Yes, a lot can go wrong at the OS kernel level, and in userspace for games which use graphics APIs, but writing a stable audio application for Windows is not much more difficult than writing one for Apple, and is actually easier in some ways.


Ah, but you said it right there - the drivers. This is what I was saying. Sometimes you end up with a driver that mostly works, but is not specific for your equipment. Or is a generic driver. So you go along thinking everything is great, then that one program comes along and the driver says, uh, no, I'm not working with that! 

Usually updating your drivers helps, but not always. Sometimes you need to go back to a previous driver. The driver for my Scarlett causes problems at times with other programs. I have it worked out now, but I never know when it is going to decide to come out fighting again.....


----------



## Denkii

redlester said:


> Hmm. Yet there was no excitement at all when we reached page 300 earlier today!
> 
> #justice4page300


Pssst...you're keeping two gentlemen from having a meaningful conversation. Please go and quietly eat some chocolate in a dark room. Make use of some of that excess free time.
Thank you.

Edit: maybe play around with your new inferior library.


----------



## synkrotron

My wife doesn't find me funny either.


----------



## KallumS

Did someone say chocolate?


----------



## synkrotron

KallumS said:


> Did someone say chocolate?



Yes, but you're not supposed to. This is a serious topic.


----------



## cqd

Can we get back to talking about dynamic layers?


----------



## Zero&One

Look at the layers on that!


----------



## synkrotron

cqd said:


> Can we get back to talking about dynamic layers?



Why?

I mean, do you really think that Spitfire Audio and all concerned are going to go back to Maida Vale Studios?


----------



## KallumS

James H said:


> Look at the layers on that!



Is that the new Chocolate Audio library?

"Sweet strings, caked in reverb..."


----------



## synkrotron

James H said:


> Look at the layers on that!



What on earth is that white blob? I hope it is white chocolate and not ice cream!


----------



## dzilizzi

staypuft said:


> Thank you. It's hard to have a meaningful conversation when the thread is overrun by aspiring comedians with too much free time and an unhealthy obsession for chocolate. You would think it's in their interest as well to improve the library but I think jokes are more important. It gives the impression that the community does not care, so Spitfire can get away with a half-assed solution like they usually do.
> 
> Spitfire should have a 7 day refund period for faulty libraries like BBCSO. It's the honest thing to do. Yet they deny every request. I can't even exchange BBCSO for store credit. What are your thoughts about it?
> 
> As for working with them, I've tried I really did. However, it's not fair to expect your costumers to do beta work for you. Looks like all their QA budget went straight to marketing. The days of Bespoke glory are long gone.


I don't think it is that we don't care. We are actually interested in whether they work it out for you. At least I am. I would like to buy this library in the future, but not so much if it won't work on my machine. Based on what I'm hearing, most PC users have made it work. And? Other than telling you to update your drivers, there is not much most of us can do. It is up to Spitfire. Complaining here over and over without updating the status as to what they are telling you? Makes us ignore you. 

I am assuming you have been in contact with them? The other question is, did you ever try the free Labs stuff that runs in the player before buying this? Does that work?


----------



## cqd

synkrotron said:


> Why?
> 
> I mean, do you really think that Spitfire Audio and all concerned are going to go back to Maida Vale Studios?



I think they should be seriously considering it..
I just wanted to stop the chocolate talk really though..


----------



## synkrotron

cqd said:


> I just wanted to stop the chocolate talk really though



Nice try...



cqd said:


> I think they should be seriously considering it



Erm... Nice try, again.


Seriously, though, can you not do other things to make up for the perceived lack of dynamic layers?


----------



## Denkii

Can Choclegato become a thing?
Is it the evolution of power legato?
Just melting through those dynamic layers.


----------



## cqd

synkrotron said:


> Seriously, though, can you not do other things to make up for the perceived lack of dynamic layers?



It's not just perceived though..
Can you do too much when you can only load one mic due to ram?
What are the chances in six months everyone will be able to spot a piece done in bbcso a mile off..


----------



## synkrotron

cqd said:


> It's not just perceived though



Okay.



cqd said:


> Can you do too much when you can only load one mic due to ram?



I thought that issue was being addressed.



cqd said:


> What are the chances in six months everyone will be able to spot a piece done in bbcso a mile off.



I'm not sure if that matters really.


----------



## dzilizzi

So, if I remember correctly, anything is acceptable in a Sample Talk thread. If you want to stick to BBCSO only, you can go to the official thread here - https://vi-control.net/community/threads/bbc-symphony-orchestra-–-available-to-pre-order.84591/

From what Paul was saying in one of his recent posts, it does sound like they are still working on some samples that will come out in a free update. I doubt it will be more dynamic layers though. And I do have to ask, how many dynamic layers does VSL SE have? Because I think the full bundle of that is what you should be comparing this to, not something like CSS which probably cost the same as the sale price for just the strings. 

i'm still a little concerned about the RAM. I think they used some Logic abilities to release RAM that may not work in other DAWs. I would like to know Andy's RAM in DP for Admiral Benbow (they said he uses DP, correct?)


----------



## Mike Fox

hittjett said:


> Oh I’m all about the new MP in every way except price. The machine is a shockingly pleasant surprise after that trash can debacle.


I agree. Apple's pricing is sickening. I'll have to wait another 10 years before i can buy the new mac pro.


----------



## synkrotron

dzilizzi said:


> So, if I remember correctly, anything is acceptable in a Sample Talk thread. If you want to stick to BBCSO only, you can go to the official thread here - https://vi-control.net/community/threads/bbc-symphony-orchestra-–-available-to-pre-order.84591/



Thanks for the link.

So, yeah, the serious stuff should go in there. Well, without the moaning elements. There is another post here for that.


----------



## Lady Gaia

Iostream said:


> ... writing a stable audio application for Windows is not much more difficult than writing one for Apple, and is actually easier in some ways.



Supporting the users who have a shockingly wide array of hardware isn’t just a matter of writing code that works to spec, though. It’s putting up with substandard drivers because market forces encourage shortcuts and rushing half-baked designs to market so you have to find workarounds. It’s the reality that the operating system is having to work around flaky hardware, because a startling number of Windows machines in the wild have components that would fail any rational quality tests but can be cajoled into working most of the time - but they do randomly fail for reasons that are hard to diagnose and explain. It’s the lowest-price wins mentality loading up Windows machines with factory-installed malware because manufacturers are being paid more by unscrupulous companies than consumers are willing to pay for a decent configuration.

It’s horrifying what “I can get it cheaper over there” has done to the hardware people rely on to get work done.

Full disclosure: I’ve worked at both Microsoft and Apple in a senior technical capacity, and in my current role I see the same ”low cost at all costs” plague affecting Android developers. You wouldn’t believe how bad some of the hardware is out there, and what it does to distort the market as a whole.


----------



## cqd

Lady Gaia said:


> because market forces encourage shortcuts and rushing half-baked designs to market


----------



## Zero&One

dzilizzi said:


> I don't think it is that we don't care. We are actually interested in whether they work it out for you. At least I am. I would like to buy this library in the future, but not so much if it won't work on my machine. Based on what I'm hearing, most PC users have made it work. And? Other than telling you to update your drivers, there is not much most of us can do. It is up to Spitfire. Complaining here over and over without updating the status as to what they are telling you? Makes us ignore you.



Well said, we are not Spitfire Audio Helpdesk. Some people feel complaining on every page will help in some way. It just get's boring really quick, and people just ignore it. It doesn't help anyone.

In a week:
They have released 3 patches and 1 library update.
Guys have shared Logic projects of amazing work
Great post on how to reduce the library size
DJ streamed for 7 hrs
People (some who don't own) have offered great ideas/tips on optimizing the templates and Patches
Someone made a Cubase template
SA have posted updates here, including the actual gaffers.
Me and others have posted load times/memory loads to help others.
Numerous songs have been posted
I PM'd another member my Logic project for testing. Instant test/reply.

In 7 days I'd say that's not bad going, some amazing people around this place.

Let's keep helping each other out yeah? And smiling whilst we do it!


----------



## Alex Fraser

dzilizzi said:


> So, if I remember correctly, anything is acceptable in a Sample Talk thread. If you want to stick to BBCSO only, you can go to the official thread here - https://vi-control.net/community/threads/bbc-symphony-orchestra-–-available-to-pre-order.84591/


There's an official thread?!?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

James H said:


> In 7 days I'd say that's not bad going, some amazing people around this place.



Well said. And it could be worse...look what happens with every single Cubase update over at the Steinberg form. I stopped going there a long time ago. At least SF acknowledges the legitimate issues is working on them.


----------



## synkrotron

Alex Fraser said:


> There's an official thread?!?



Yeah, but, what ever happens, you cannot post anything there about bloody chocolate!


----------



## staypuft

@James H I barely post here and when I do I get instantly attacked by you. What is your problem? Can't you accept that somebody else is having issues? Go enjoy your awesome perfect library! You should read your posts again, you are *NOT *helping. If my comments annoy you that much, I will make it easier for you:: ignored.


----------



## PerryD

synkrotron said:


> Yeah, but, what ever happens, you cannot post anything there about bloody chocolate!


 Yes, comrades. All posts will be scrutinized. Dossiers are being compiled. Light heartedness will not be tolerated.


----------



## synkrotron

PerryD said:


> Light heartedness will not be tolerated


----------



## staypuft

dzilizzi said:


> I don't think it is that we don't care. We are actually interested in whether they work it out for you. At least I am. I would like to buy this library in the future, but not so much if it won't work on my machine. Based on what I'm hearing, most PC users have made it work. And? Other than telling you to update your drivers, there is not much most of us can do. It is up to Spitfire. Complaining here over and over without updating the status as to what they are telling you? Makes us ignore you.
> 
> I am assuming you have been in contact with them? The other question is, did you ever try the free Labs stuff that runs in the player before buying this? Does that work?



Yes, they don't know what the problem is despite what Chrisitan has said two days ago. I won't share what support has told me because I don't want to screw someone earning minimum wage. There is NO fix up to this point. Whatever they say publicly is damage control.

Forum rules don't allow me to show any sort of discontent in the official BBCSO discussion. Please ignore me as much as you want, I only wish that you people could respect those having problems and stop spamming the thread with off-topic blather. It got distracting after the first 4000 messages.....Thanks.


----------



## MaxOctane

Alex Fraser said:


> There's an official thread?!?



The last post was in September. All the cool kids (in fact, everyone) is hanging out here.


----------



## jbuhler

James H said:


> Look at the layers on that!


That's some deep sampled chocolate.


----------



## Iostream

Lady Gaia said:


> Supporting the users who have a shockingly wide array of hardware isn’t just a matter of writing code that works to spec, though. It’s putting up with substandard drivers because market forces encourage shortcuts and rushing half-baked designs to market so you have to find workarounds. It’s the reality that the operating system is having to work around flaky hardware, because a startling number of Windows machines in the wild have components that would fail any rational quality tests but can be cajoled into working most of the time - but they do randomly fail for reasons that are hard to diagnose and explain. It’s the lowest-price wins mentality loading up Windows machines with factory-installed malware because manufacturers are being paid more by unscrupulous companies than consumers are willing to pay for a decent configuration.
> 
> It’s horrifying what “I can’t get it cheaper over there” has done to the hardware people rely on to get work done.
> 
> Full disclosure: I’ve worked at both Microsoft and Apple in a senior technical capacity, and in my current role I see the same ”low cost at all costs” plague affecting Android developers. You wouldn’t believe how bad some of the hardware is out there, and what it does to distort the market as a whole.



Sadly I understand this much more than I would like to. As a linux kernel developer, we write to spec, and then find all of the hardware that doesn't actually work with that spec. I think there is more code in the ACPI quirks table than there is in the actual functionality. Plenty of hardware and firmware misses the spec, and when you complain to the manufacturer, "it works with Windows" is a common answer. But you can buy a crap audio interface of video card for Mac as well. The real difference comes in motherboard/cpu/memory/power supply combos. There are plenty of bad ones out there, but they don't tend to cause issues with a single userspace application. It generally manifests as general system instability that is hard to diagnose. Unfortunately, Apple is just as guilty of some of this. They have manufactured systems that cannot handle the thermal load their parts are designed for too.
Of course, on the technical support side, you don't always have users willing to admit their whole system is unstable when complaining about an app that can reliably crash it. For example, a bad memory chip. Occasioinally you might try to put something there and run into it in daily use, but just as likely you may not. Once you load something that is going to use the majority of your memory, it becomes much more likely that you try to use the bad pages.


----------



## synkrotron

staypuft said:


> Forum rules don't allow me to show any sort of discontent in the official BBCSO discussion.



There is nothing stopping you from creating your own British Broadcasting Corporation Symphony Orchestra related topic here in the Sample Talk forum.

Don't forget to tag the Spitfire Audio Peeps.


----------



## Noeticus

Can we please just be serious for one friggin' moment...


----------



## synkrotron

Noeticus said:


> Can we please just be serious for one friggin' moment...



That's it... I'm outta here!


----------



## CT

staypuft said:


> Thank you. It's hard to have a meaningful conversation when the thread is overrun by aspiring comedians with too much free time and an unhealthy obsession for chocolate. You would think it's in their interest as well to improve the library but I think jokes are more important. It gives the impression that the community does not care, so Spitfire can get away with a half-assed solution like they usually do.



Yeah, you're right, it's all our fault.

Who chose the form of the destructor?!


----------



## Jett Hitt

Mike Fox said:


> I agree. Apple's pricing is sickening. I'll have to wait another 10 years before i can buy the new mac pro.


You and me both. In the meantime I’ll be daisy chaining old 5,1s that I buy off eBay.


----------



## MaxOctane

Iostream said:


> As a linux kernel developer...



Username checks out.


----------



## dzilizzi

staypuft said:


> Yes, they don't know what the problem is despite what Chrisitan has said two days ago. I won't share what support has told me because I don't want to screw someone earning minimum wage. There is NO fix up to this point. Whatever they say publicly is damage control.
> 
> Forum rules don't allow me to show any sort of discontent in the official BBCSO discussion. Please ignore me as much as you want, I only wish that you people could respect those having problems and stop spamming the thread with off-topic blather. It got distracting after the first 4000 messages.....Thanks.


Actually, you can show discontent on the official thread as long as it is related to the product in question and you don't compare it unfavorably to other companies' products. So something like this should be on the official thread. 

I understand your frustration. I really wish we could help. I just don't think the way you have been posting is helpful to any of us - you included. If they aren't getting back to you or they are and nothing is working, that is good for us to know and we are interested in it. If they can't fix the problem and you can't upgrade your computer, maybe they should allow you to return the product, as it is defective. Though I can understand if they don't advertise that they do it or a number of people who regret the purchase will also want their money back. Not because it didn't work or do what it said it will do, just because they realized they spent that much money on another VI. But there should be a "we can't make this work on your machine" refund (or give it to me in Kontakt form)

And? I don't run Spitfire, so I can't make these decisions.


----------



## MaxOctane

Noeticus said:


> Can we please just be serious for one friggin' moment...



This thread is getting out of control (and sexy chocolate girl isn't helping!).

But, we have another 942 posts to go before we hit 700. So let's keep it goin'!!


----------



## DerGeist

Fleer said:


> Yeah, I remember when I tasted my first Milky Way in the New World. Nothing like that creamy lightweight I was used to in the Old. Didn’t dare to open a Mars bar.


I think if you want a proper Mars bar in the US you need to buy a 3 Musketeers. Or just drive a bit farther North to Canada where the candy bars all makes sense again.


----------



## dzilizzi

MaxOctane said:


> This thread is getting out of control (and sexy chocolate girl isn't helping!).
> 
> But, we have another 942 posts to go before we hit 700. So let's keep it goin'!!


7000? I think we hit 700 before the BBCSO was released. 

Edit: I shouldn't laugh. When I sign into my phone, half the time it doesn't register a second same number in a row. So 7000 would be 70. Annoying.


----------



## synergy543

staypuft said:


> @James H I barely post here and when I do I get instantly attacked by you. What is your problem?


It is interesting that James H's avatar is a wolf and your's is a marshmellow. Hmmm... I wonder if a more agressive avatar might deter the wolves? Could be worth a try.


----------



## Zero&One

staypuft said:


> @James H I barely post here and when I do I get instantly attacked by you. What is your problem? Can't you accept that somebody else is having issues? Go enjoy your awesome perfect library! You should read your posts again, you are *NOT *helping. If my comments annoy you that much, I will make it easier for you:: ignored.



I attacked you? Really?
Btw, by ignoring _me_ doesn't stop me seeing *your *annoying comments.


----------



## Mucusman

Not by me, but I love this piece. Here is a mock-up using BBCSO:


----------



## star.keys

staypuft said:


> Thank you. It's hard to have a meaningful conversation when the thread is overrun by aspiring comedians with too much free time and an unhealthy obsession for chocolate. You would think it's in their interest as well to improve the library but I think jokes are more important. It gives the impression that the community does not care, so Spitfire can get away with a half-assed solution like they usually do.
> 
> Spitfire should have a 7 day refund period for faulty libraries like BBCSO. It's the honest thing to do. Yet they deny every request. I can't even exchange BBCSO for store credit. What are your thoughts about it?
> 
> As for working with them, I've tried I really did. However, it's not fair to expect your costumers to do beta work for you. Looks like all their QA budget went straight to marketing. The days of Bespoke glory are long gone.


Exactly the arguments I had during HZ Strings release. My suggestion is, give it a few days and enjoy something else in the meantime. There is good chance that they will fix these issues. Just see that you don’t fall for a trap of typical argument “you are the only one facing these issues”. After all, for you, this is the only product that doesn’t work on your specific PC hence the counter argument stands equally strong  In my case it took over 2 weeks (Windows 1, i9 7900x, 64GB RAM at the time HZ Strings was released and these were the latest and greatest PC machines so I have them a benefit of doubt but if these issues still do exist or have reappeared, that’s just bad tech/QA effort.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Mucusman said:


> Not by me, but I love this piece. Here is a mock-up using BBCSO:




Nice!! Yet another demo showing that this a beautiful sounding library. Well done. I noticed your CPU meter in Logic stayed very low, good to see. If you don't mind me asking, what is the total Ram footprint for that session?


----------



## Mucusman

Wolfie2112 said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what is the total Ram footprint for that session?



I just reposted this video - I didn’t create this mock-up. If you _really_ want to know, go to the YouTube page for the video and you can see how to contact the guy who make the mock-up.


----------



## Jack Weaver

Purchased. 

Strangely enough, it was DJ's run-throughs. He kept saying 'I can use that.' Well, so can I. 

Maybe not perfect yet or even ever. But more than enough inherent beauty.

.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

miket said:


> GPO





miket said:


> Ok, I'll buy it. Anything less than 6000 and I may as well have gone back to GPO.


GPO was my first sample library when I was at College :D
Oh, those were the days... when I had not spent a small mortgage on sample libraries :/


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Mucusman said:


> I just reposted this video - I didn’t create this mock-up. If you _really_ want to know, go to the YouTube page for the video and you can see how to contact the guy who make the mock-up.



I'm sure you would have done just as good!


----------



## CT

All right. Let's see what happens....


----------



## 2chris

All these new resource intensive libraries are a big reason I've moved away from a maxed out Apple Imac to a water cooled micro atx solution I built so I can replace parts as necessary. Now we need whole SSD drives just to house the libraries too


----------



## Zedcars

Mucusman said:


> Not by me, but I love this piece. Here is a mock-up using BBCSO:



I mean, it is very good. The realism and beauty of the strings really shines through.

However, it seems there are a few issues when the notes end; they seem to end unnaturally abruptly in places, which kind of snaps me out of my enjoyment. I'm not certain if this is a MIDI CC programming issue, or a problem with the string patch itself.

Do you guys know what I'm talking about here?

I've had some issues myself with the strings. If I layer some softish horns under the strings then there are some tuning problems. Something is definitely off, but I haven't had time to pinpoint it yet. I think someone else said they had some tuning problems in reference to the strings.


----------



## star.keys

Lady Gaia said:


> Supporting the users who have a shockingly wide array of hardware isn’t just a matter of writing code that works to spec, though. It’s putting up with substandard drivers because market forces encourage shortcuts and rushing half-baked designs to market so you have to find workarounds. It’s the reality that the operating system is having to work around flaky hardware, because a startling number of Windows machines in the wild have components that would fail any rational quality tests but can be cajoled into working most of the time - but they do randomly fail for reasons that are hard to diagnose and explain. It’s the lowest-price wins mentality loading up Windows machines with factory-installed malware because manufacturers are being paid more by unscrupulous companies than consumers are willing to pay for a decent configuration.
> 
> It’s horrifying what “I can get it cheaper over there” has done to the hardware people rely on to get work done.
> 
> Full disclosure: I’ve worked at both Microsoft and Apple in a senior technical capacity, and in my current role I see the same ”low cost at all costs” plague affecting Android developers. You wouldn’t believe how bad some of the hardware is out there, and what it does to distort the market as a whole.


I agree with you, having worked as a systems developer in my past life (right from writing device drivers, assembly code until cross platform design/development before I got bored of programming and decided to move to Consulting), we have examples of good cross platform sampler - which is NI Kontakt. Now one issue. Always seamless. Spot on. Perfect. So I believe that it is possible to write code that works without taking people for granted through an extended beta testing cycle post product release, and debugging buggy products using user machines, using users’ money... that’s just shambolic. Some sample library developers seek to be following the same practices of hw/OS developers you have quoted above - release half baked products and then blame it on 3rd parties and perceived complexity...


----------



## Denkii

staypuft said:


> @James H I barely post here and when I do I get instantly attacked by you. What is your problem? Can't you accept that somebody else is having issues? Go enjoy your awesome perfect library! You should read your posts again, you are *NOT *helping. If my comments annoy you that much, I will make it easier for you:: ignored.


The neckbeard is strong in this one.


----------



## star.keys

Mucusman said:


> Not by me, but I love this piece. Here is a mock-up using BBCSO:



Lovely Strings tone. Flute is a bit in-the-face, probably mixing issue


----------



## curtisschweitzer

star.keys said:


> I agree with you, having worked as a systems developer in my past life (right from writing device drivers, assembly code until cross platform design/development before I got bored of programming and decided to move to Consulting), we have examples of good cross platform sampler - which is NI Kontakt. Now one issue. Always seamless. Spot on. Perfect. So I believe that it is possible to write code that works without taking people for granted through an extended beta testing cycle post product release, and debugging buggy products using user machines, using users’ money... that’s just shambolic. Some sample library developers seek to be following the same practices of hw/OS developers you have quoted above - release half baked products and then blame it on 3rd parties and perceived complexity...



Kontakt is at what, version 6? Comparing that to a player that's much more recent isn't exactly apples to apples. Speaking as someone who learned outside of the NI/Kontakt system of sampler + 3rd party developers, when I initially jumped in somewhere near the start of Kontakt 5's life, my experience was far, far from perfect-- but I gradually came to really appreciate the care and responsiveness of NI (and of some of the 3rd party library developers too). I use Kontakt every day and and love it.

Spitfire's player is basically in its infancy, and speaking as someone who's used it since day 1 (on both Mac and Windows, inside of VE Pro and standalone), I've found it to be pretty great overall-- not perfect, but no worse than any other sample engine I deal with day-to-day. Like Kontakt, I use it every day and love it.

I've been toying with BBCSO over the last week in between game work, and I can definitely see it is going to be an extremely useful library. Like any library, it is a lot like learning a new instrument-- you can't always just sit down and know exactly how to best use it. (Eric Whitacre Choirs was this way too, and so far that is my favorite library of 2019, and has been a godsend on some big projects). I'm sure there's some trade-offs that had to be made getting that many mic positions to fit into 600GB (and probably a lot of CPU optimization that will get done on their Spitfire FLAC file compression/decompression), but like any other trade-off, there's an upside there, too.

I'd probably still recommend Hollywood Orchestra to anyone starting out simply because they've had more time to work out the kinks, (and because I've used it on lower-end consumer systems early in my career) but if you're new and you bought BBCSO, I think you've got a great set of samples to get started with.


----------



## brenneisen

curtisschweitzer said:


> Kontakt is at what, version 6? Comparing that to a player that's much more recent isn't exactly apples to apples.



So a new mobile phone brand can make phones that feel/look/play like Iphone 3 because they're newcomers?


----------



## Saigen

curtisschweitzer said:


> but if you're new and you bought BBCSO, I think you've got a great set of samples to get started with.



Assuming they're on Mac.


----------



## styledelk

brenneisen said:


> So a new mobile phone brand can make phones that feel/look/play like Iphone 3 because they're newcomers?



Anyone making a new phone in 2019 is backed by massive amounts of money, engineers, and a strong fairly open ecosystem and series of innovations to build on.

Spitfire isn't Samsung, HTC, or even Facebook, Amazon, etc. in this metaphor. There's no way you'd expect Joe's Boutique Phones to release an iPhone XS competitor out the gate. But I'm sure it has some unique things that make it a very good phone on its own, and they're trying their best with the limited resources they have.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Saigen said:


> Assuming they're on Mac.





brenneisen said:


> So a new mobile phone brand can make phones that feel/look/play like Iphone 3 because they're newcomers?



My point was that Kontakt has not always been "perfect", and in my experience, it has not always been "good" at various times. It is to be expected that newer engines will have some growing pains. If that's not something you'd like to experience, I think its perfectly fine to wait to see if Spitfire irons out the issues in their player.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Saigen said:


> Assuming they're on Mac.



I'm using it primarily on Windows. (Through VE Pro).


----------



## Saigen

curtisschweitzer said:


> I'm using it primarily on Windows. (Through VE Pro).



How are your RAM thresholds holding up with all instruments loaded?






This is what it's like for me on 32gb windows 10.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Saigen said:


> How are your RAM thresholds holding up with all instruments loaded?



I haven't had a chance to load "all" instruments. I loaded up a string section, a few winds, and some brass with the key switched patches and used maybe 20-30 GB (I don't really keep exact track). I added a lot of mics though, including various spills and some of the more niche stuff like the mono auntie and outriggers.


----------



## Saigen

curtisschweitzer said:


> I haven't had a chance to load "all" instruments. I loaded up a string section, a few winds, and some brass with the key switched patches and used maybe 20-30 GB (I don't really keep exact track). I added a lot of mics though, including various spills and some of the more niche stuff like the mono auntie and outriggers.


How's the memory% looking for you?


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Saigen said:


> How are your RAM thresholds holding up with all instruments loaded?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what it's like for me on 32gb windows 10.



By the way, it isn't like I think the Spitfire player is "done"-- they themselves seem to acknowledge some issues on Windows (I haven't experienced much of them, although you'll note several pages back, when I was working with the earliest released version I did have some bugs). I certainly think it is more than fair for Windows users on the fence to hold off until they've released some more updates to see if they can make improvements for those users, and for current Windows users to expect some improvements.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Saigen said:


> How's the memory% looking for you?



I mean, whatever 20-30 is out of 96.


----------



## mistermister

star.keys said:


> which is NI Kontakt. Not one issue. Always seamless. Spot on. Perfect.


I think you're also looking at Kontakt through rose tinted glasses. There are absolutely issues with Kontakt. Depending on hardware you can have dropped notes. Many third party libraries have random hangs, pops, clicks and hanging notes. Certain DAWs behave different in performance and stability. In certain situations things like loop points within Kontakt will randomly stop playing, or release notes don't work. Libraries randomly disappear from the library pane - and these are just actual issues. There is plenty wrong design/experience wise.

Not to dump on Kontakt - all of the samplers have their issues, good points, bad points. just that it's not quite fair to act as if Kontakt's perfect.


----------



## Saigen

mistermister said:


> I think you're also looking at Kontakt through rose tinted glasses. There are absolutely issues with Kontakt. Depending on hardware you can have dropped notes. Many third party libraries have random hangs, pops, clicks and hanging notes. Certain DAWs behave different performance and stability. In certain situations things like loop points within Kontakt will randomly stop playing, or release notes don't work. Libraries randomly disappear from the library pane - and these are just actual issues. There is plenty wrong design/experience wise.
> 
> Not to dump on Kontakt - all of the samplers have their issues, good points, bad points. just that it's not quite fair to act as if Kontakt's perfect.



I don't think anyone is making a perfection claim. More like, stable over unstable.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Saigen said:


> I don't think anyone is making a perfection claim. More like, stable over unstable.


...


star.keys said:


> ...we have examples of good cross platform sampler - which is NI Kontakt. Now one issue. Always seamless. Spot on. Perfect.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

Question:
I have saved my own instrument preset, that appears in the BBCSO instrument browser in the "User" category.
Now I want to get rid of it. Anyone knows how I can delete it?


----------



## Saigen

curtisschweitzer said:


> ...


My bad.
I missed that part.


----------



## Pianolando

staypuft said:


> Thank you. It's hard to have a meaningful conversation when the thread is overrun by aspiring comedians with too much free time and an unhealthy obsession for chocolate. You would think it's in their interest as well to improve the library but I think jokes are more important. It gives the impression that the community does not care, so Spitfire can get away with a half-assed solution like they usually do.



This is very true and very frustrating. There’s always the ignore function, but I don’t want to put a lot of people on ignore. Sure, there is an official, OT-free, thread, but that doesn’t matter since all the relevant discussion, including the dev responding happens here, buried in chocolate discussions. 

IMHO that kind of spam have no place in this part of the forum at all, it belongs in the OT-section, but the lack of moderation here is sometimes very good and sometimes a curse.


----------



## dzilizzi

curtisschweitzer said:


> My point was that Kontakt has not always been "perfect", and in my experience, it has not always been "good" at various times. It is to be expected that newer engines will have some growing pains. If that's not something you'd like to experience, I think its perfectly fine to wait to see if Spitfire irons out the issues in their player.


Probably would have been better to compare it to Play. When I was first looking at EW, the stories I heard were worse than this about Play 4. Fortunately, Play 5 had recently come out and it actually worked without problems.


----------



## Zedcars

Well, I’ve been with this thread from the beginning. It was fun figuring out what the cryptic marketing meant, with some wild speculation and it was fun experiencing the excitement of launch day. With some good banter great music along the way.

But I think it’s time I bow out too as I don’t want to annoy people any more with my good-natured humour.

I will eventually post a BBCSO piece.

I hope people’s problems get sorted. Remember folks, it’s only ones and zeros - not worth falling out over really.


----------



## Iostream

The decision of some developers to move away from kontakt might have to do with the shake up at NI. While I certainly hope everything goes smoothly, it could be a bumpy road ahead. If you remember from their press release where they had a 20% headcount reduction:



> _The key reason for this difficult decision is to create the right organizational setup to focus on the development of a new, unified and fully integrated platform on which the company's entire portfolio of products and services will be available next year. This change comes despite growing revenues in 2018 and the first half of 2019, but as a response to an increasing cost structure due to the company's previous divisional setup and multi-brand approach._



So it might be that the developers with the means are hedging their bets.


----------



## PerryD

Zedcars said:


> Well, I’ve been with this thread from the beginning. It was fun figuring out what the cryptic marketing meant, with some wild speculation and it was fun experiencing the excitement of launch day. With some good banter great music along the way.
> 
> But I think it’s time I bow out too as I don’t want to annoy people any more with my good-natured humour.
> 
> I will eventually post a BBCSO piece.
> 
> I hope people’s problems get sorted. Remember folks, it’s only ones and zeros - not worth falling out over really.


 Looking forward to hearing your BBCSO music. Creativity usually accompanies a good sense of humor.


----------



## erica-grace

Iostream said:


> The decision of some developers to move away from kontakt might have to do with the shake up at NI.



No way. OT and SFA deciding to have their own player was years in the making - way before NI's announcement.


----------



## dzilizzi

erica-grace said:


> No way. OT and SFA deciding to have their own player was years in the making - way before NI's announcement.


I'm wondering if it might be the other way around? 

Yeah, probably not. I don't think SFA and OT are that big a percentage of their customers. It could also be that NI has automated a lot more of their systems and outsourced their equipment production and shipping to the point they don't need so many people. Because it doesn't sound like they are having money problems.


----------



## Iostream

erica-grace said:


> No way. OT and SFA deciding to have their own player was years in the making - way before NI's announcement.



I am sure NI partners have been given some direction as to what is coming a while ago. For NI to deliver a "_new, unified and fully integrated platform on which the company's entire portfolio of products and services will be available next year_ ", they have to have been working on it for some time. The public announcement happened because they had to give some explanation as to why they were letting go so many people, otherwise customers and potentials might think the company was in trouble, but I am sure the work started long before that.
I don't see Kontakt going away, but I do see how completely changing the architecture might make larger developers want to hedge their bets. 
Still, this was all speculation. It is also entirely possible that people want more control over their product, licensing, and experience. So far, I would rather have BBCSO in Kontakt, but that may change over time. It is at least NKS compatible.


----------



## MaxOctane

Pianolando said:


> IMHO that kind of spam have no place in this part of the forum at all, it belongs in the OT-section, but the lack of moderation here is sometimes very good and sometimes a curse.



That "spam" is what makes VI-C a community and not just a technical support forum. Sure, it occasionally gets very very silly. But we've already gone through thousands of posts of pre-release speculation, and now the SF player, and release tails, and Windows 10 specs, and... well, a bit of good fun won't ruin the thread.


----------



## Noeticus

A community of music and chocolate lovers.


----------



## Grilled Cheese

staypuft said:


> Forum rules don't allow me to show any sort of discontent in the official BBCSO discussion.


Really? I’m surprised to hear that. I have found your input to be meaningful, and your disappointment with this library sounds justified. You don’t deserve some of the snide, uncompassionate comments you have received. All voices deserve to be heard and I really hope you get a solution ASAP. To spend this kind of money on a product that doesn’t work properly and can’t be refunded is fair cause for angst.

Hopefully in a matter of days his will all be an unpleasant memory and you’ll be enjoying the BBCSO like many other users.

Less seriously... you can’t have a marshmallow related name and knock people for talking about chocolate. I mean, rocky road, it’s awesome!


----------



## star.keys

curtisschweitzer said:


> Kontakt is at what, version 6? Comparing that to a player that's much more recent isn't exactly apples to apples. Speaking as someone who learned outside of the NI/Kontakt system of sampler + 3rd party developers, when I initially jumped in somewhere near the start of Kontakt 5's life, my experience was far, far from perfect-- but I gradually came to really appreciate the care and responsiveness of NI (and of some of the 3rd party library developers too). I use Kontakt every day and and love it.
> 
> Spitfire's player is basically in its infancy, and speaking as someone who's used it since day 1 (on both Mac and Windows, inside of VE Pro and standalone), I've found it to be pretty great overall-- not perfect, but no worse than any other sample engine I deal with day-to-day. Like Kontakt, I use it every day and love it.
> 
> I've been toying with BBCSO over the last week in between game work, and I can definitely see it is going to be an extremely useful library. Like any library, it is a lot like learning a new instrument-- you can't always just sit down and know exactly how to best use it. (Eric Whitacre Choirs was this way too, and so far that is my favorite library of 2019, and has been a godsend on some big projects). I'm sure there's some trade-offs that had to be made getting that many mic positions to fit into 600GB (and probably a lot of CPU optimization that will get done on their Spitfire FLAC file compression/decompression), but like any other trade-off, there's an upside there, too.
> 
> I'd probably still recommend Hollywood Orchestra to anyone starting out simply because they've had more time to work out the kinks, (and because I've used it on lower-end consumer systems early in my career) but if you're new and you bought BBCSO, I think you've got a great set of samples to get started with.


I’m not in a mood to give Spitfire another 5 years until their sampler reaches version 6, and pay them to debug issues on my PC 😀 Therefore I made a choice to not to purchase BBCSO until Windows users confirm that the sampler works seamlessly... there is a difference in what you are comparing with and what I’m complaining - Windows 10 / PC bug sounds like a show stopper and I’m not used to my QA guy allowing a product to slip through show stoppers at the time of release (vs. ironing our some ongoing issues with Kontakt...)
I like the tone of strings. Brass is a bit meh to my taste. WW is acceptable. Percussion is again not to my taste. I might still buy BBCSO just for the sound of strings when the price adjusts itself in the future, provided there aren’t any outstanding Windows 10 show stopper issues at that time. Always happy to live with some minor issues / ongoing fixes etc but show stoppers? No, not acceptable...


----------



## Virtuoso

Mike Fox said:


> I've been using a 2008 Mac Pro 3,1 with 4 SSDs, 8 cores, and 64 gb of ram for all less than 1k. It's been a tank. These computers can run off of server ram too, which is dirt cheap.


Wow, no kidding - thanks for the tip! I shuttered my 8 core MP 3,1 a few years ago, but I might dig it out again to use as a slave. I paid $2000 for 16GB back in 2008 but you can get 64GB for $150 now!


----------



## Zero&One

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Question:
> I have saved my own instrument preset, that appears in the BBCSO instrument browser in the "User" category.
> Now I want to get rid of it. Anyone knows how I can delete it?



On Mac:
Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra - Presets - User

BTW
I've attached a mic preset if anyone can test it?
Lives at:
Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra - Presets - Mix

Maybe guys could share interesting or go to presets? Or maybe I can just keep my nose out?


----------



## Mike Fox

Virtuoso said:


> Wow, no kidding - thanks for the tip! I shuttered my 8 core MP 3,1 a few years ago, but I might dig it out again to use as a slave. I paid $2000 for 16GB back in 2008 but you can get 64GB for $150 now!


Or even less! I think i only paid about $100 for 64gb.


----------



## Nemoy

star.keys said:


> I like the tone of strings. Brass is a bit meh to my taste. WW is acceptable. Percussion is again not to my taste. I might still buy BBCSO just for the sound of strings when the price adjusts itself in the future, provided there aren’t any outstanding Windows 10 show stopper issues at that time. Always happy to live with some minor issues / ongoing fixes etc but show stoppers? No, not acceptable...



Price adjusts itself in the future? The price is going up another $250 in about 2 weeks. Lol. And just because its not a great/good product, SA will not adjust their price to reflect even if its poorly accepted by the public.


----------



## Chungus

Are you guys ready for a real hot take?

Ahem.

White chocolate is the only good chocolate.


----------



## John57

Mike Fox said:


> Or even less! I think i only paid about $100 for 64gb.


What!!?? 
I paid over $300 for my Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz C16 just two weeks ago.


----------



## Denkii

Chungus said:


> Are you guys ready for a real hot take?
> 
> Ahem.
> 
> White chocolate is the only good chocolate.


White chocolate isn't even chocolate.


----------



## erica-grace

Iostream said:


> I am sure NI partners have been given some direction as to what is coming a while ago.



Well, I cant know whats going on at NI headquarters of course, but I guarantee you that there is NO WAY that NI, behind the scenes, told sample library developers what was coming. That just does not happen. Especially being that these developers are not partners.


----------



## Mike Fox

John57 said:


> What!!??
> I paid over $300 for my Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz C16 just two weeks ago.


Yeah, as soon as i found out that those mac pros could run off of server ram, i was all over it. It's "technically" slower ram, but not by much, and i don't even notice.


----------



## Stevie

In case you missed it:

I created a feature request thread for the Spitfire sample player. Feel free to add your thoughts/whishes





Feature Request thread for the Spitfire Audio sample player


Hey all, I've been using BBC SO for some days now and I really like the sample player. However, feature wise it is still not on par with SA's Kontakt libraries. Therefore I decided to create this FR thread. Because: who could give Spitfire better feedback than the people who use it? This...




vi-control.net


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Well, I’ve been with this thread from the beginning. It was fun figuring out what the cryptic marketing meant, with some wild speculation and it was fun experiencing the excitement of launch day. With some good banter great music along the way.
> 
> But I think it’s time I bow out too as I don’t want to annoy people any more with my good-natured humour.
> 
> I will eventually post a BBCSO piece.
> 
> I hope people’s problems get sorted. Remember folks, it’s only ones and zeros - not worth falling out over really.


Thanks for all the bantz, Zedcars.

This thread as long been a repository for humour and nonsense. It’s made a pleasant change from the usual forum grumpiness. I shouldn’t worry about annoying anyone with your humour. 

This has always been an unofficial thread and one reason people choose to post here is they want the eyeballs that a 6000 post thread provides. Even if 2000 posts are about food. 😅


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Zedcars said:


> But I think it’s time I bow out too as I don’t want to annoy people any more with my good-natured humour.


Don't kid yourself. You will be back.


----------



## MaxOctane

Chungus said:


> White chocolate is the only good chocolate.



I take back what I said about this being a friendly community. You, sir, have gone too far.

Admins, please block this madman!


----------



## Fleer

Come back in, Zedcars, I started this thread for guys exactly like you.


----------



## redlester

Noeticus said:


> A community of music and chocolate lovers.



Whatever their undoubted benefits I can live without dynamic layers. The same cannot be said of chocolate.


----------



## christianhenson

SO NERVOUS, SO EXCITED.... but this is my first go at a new kind of tutorial, one where you get to download my spoils and try for yourself. I even programmed the whole thing in mix unity so the MIDI files would translate.... let me know what you think!!!

Gulp!



...and download assets here:

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/thepage/


----------



## widekeys

BBCSO Piano? (0:50)

Thank you for putting up content like this, Christian! I hope to see more of this kind coming in the future.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Well, I’ve been with this thread from the beginning. It was fun figuring out what the cryptic marketing meant, with some wild speculation and it was fun experiencing the excitement of launch day. With some good banter great music along the way.
> 
> But I think it’s time I bow out too as I don’t want to annoy people any more with my good-natured humour.
> 
> I will eventually post a BBCSO piece.
> 
> I hope people’s problems get sorted. Remember folks, it’s only ones and zeros - not worth falling out over really.



This is devastating, but if you feel you have to go I've created a farewell in memoriam of your outstanding contributions to this thread. Never forgotten.
(I know this is technically poor, but I've knocked it together very quickly in a state of high emotion...)


----------



## Michael Antrum

I’m holding back the tears here you know....


sob....


----------



## John R Wilson

I've been following this thread for a long time now. I am now in a position were I have paid for the BBC orchestra using the educational discount. However, due to being away for a week after purchasing I was unable to download the software and after reading the problems people are having with windows 10 and Cubase I am now really considering requesting a full refund on it. Whats everyones opinion on this and has Spitfire said anymore about any upcoming updates to resolve the issues that windows users appear to be having?


----------



## christianhenson

It’s all fixed... we’ll be issuing a statement about it once all tests are done. Check out my Satie YouTube vid I’m making a Cubase version of the track this weekend for you to download.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Are their more updates / Downloads coming for BBC SO via your Spitfire App then in the coming days Christian ?


----------



## Fleer

christianhenson said:


> It’s all fixed... we’ll be issuing a statement about it once all tests are done. Check out my Satie YouTube vid I’m making a Cubase version of the track this weekend for you to download.



Wonderful, simply wonderful.


----------



## dcoscina

Wondering how much music everyone could have written during the time they read through or chimed in on this thread...


----------



## joebaggan

dcoscina said:


> Wondering how much music everyone could have written during the time they read through or chimed in on this thread...



What? People on this forum actually write music? I thought it was just folks who like to play with toys and debate software specs.


----------



## John R Wilson

christianhenson said:


> It’s all fixed... we’ll be issuing a statement about it once all tests are done. Check out my Satie YouTube vid I’m making a Cubase version of the track this weekend for you to download.




Sounds great. Can you confirm when you will be issuing the statement and when all the tests will be complete with the fix/update rolled out?

Also, ill check out the video. Sounds great regarding a Cubase version of the track for this weekend


----------



## staypuft

chrispire said:


> Really? I’m surprised to hear that. I have found your input to be meaningful, and your disappointment with this library sounds justified. You don’t deserve some of the snide, uncompassionate comments you have received. All voices deserve to be heard and I really hope you get a solution ASAP. To spend this kind of money on a product that doesn’t work properly and can’t be refunded is fair cause for angst.
> 
> Hopefully in a matter of days his will all be an unpleasant memory and you’ll be enjoying the BBCSO like many other users.
> 
> Less seriously... you can’t have a marshmallow related name and knock people for talking about chocolate. I mean, rocky road, it’s awesome!



Thank you chrispire. This isn't about me against BBCSO. It benefits everyone from owners to potential buyers. Contrary to recent Spitfire claims, *all isn't fixed*







I don't understand why Christian keeps saying otherwise. Well I suppose it's damage control but that's unethical and irresponsible. Some poor kid will spend all his savings and buy a non-refundable product that doesn't work as advertised, after reading that "all is fixed".

With the advent of social media, traditional marketing methods no longer seem enough to sustain a business. Social connectivity has become the key to marketing and building the brand's image for the buyers. It doesn't matter how they try to frame it, at the end of the day Spitfire is just another business trying to sell a product.

Nothing wrong with that if you hold your products to a high standard. Unforunately this is not the case with BBCSO. And I don't appreciate being lied to.

Spitfire will tell you that they are working around the clock in order to address this. They even gave up Halloween !!! due to the urgent nature of the situation. That early adopters are rewarded with a discount to put up with any release bugs....WTF??. That you should just wait and not ask for a refund.

As costumers, we should stick together. That's what I'm doing. Vicontrol is just the tip of the iceberg. I've been talking to an alarming number of BBCSO owners that are on the same boat. It's not only "a few" of us being affected. There is no fix. I wish there was.

I will inform you of any progress.


----------



## 5Lives

How do you know there isn’t a 1.05 they are about to release with the fixes Christian refers to?


----------



## Noeticus

christianhenson said:


> SO NERVOUS, SO EXCITED.... but this is my first go at a new kind of tutorial, one where you get to download my spoils and try for yourself. I even programmed the whole thing in mix unity so the MIDI files would translate.... let me know what you think!!!
> 
> Gulp!
> 
> 
> 
> ...and download assets here:
> 
> https://www.spitfireaudio.com/thepage/




Thanks for this, Christian. 

I love what you have shown here, and I have always loved this piece by Satie.


----------



## christianhenson

Heya Staypuft.... Yes, we have fixed it at our end.... the number of cases is remarkably small compared to the number of new users, but the number of people who have purchased is staggering, literally staggering. As I said we're running tests?

I think what is also a shame is the sheer frenzy of people suggesting people demand refunds for a problem we will of course address and therefore deny people who have taken the early adoption route to get the best deal, have gone to the trouble of downloading it, or indeed paying for a hard drive. Just hang in there chaps, we're on it, its the best library we've ever built, insanely ambitious and we're sorry that we didn't see this issue at our end before launching because it didn't happen on our windows 10 machine, as it is indeed NOT happening on most windows 10 machines!

I had a student earlier who has been away for a week thinking he should ask for a refund without even trying it? Because of the sheer mentalness here.

So why don't we all sit down and have a cuppa and maybe join the other bunfight on VI-C, the one that suggests my arrangement of the 1st Gnossiennes is _"cheesy garbage"_?





__





SAURON - The DAW All Media Composers Must Learn???


Can we try to look at it from a different angle? Each time the elitism-argument comes up the discussion is basically over. And that's a pity in this case, because I think there are a lot of interesting points that can be duscussed regarding Mr. Henson's orchestration. Hopefully that is possible...




vi-control.net





C. xxx


----------



## dcoscina

joebaggan said:


> What? People on this forum actually write music? I thought it was just folks who like to play with toys and debate software specs.


It does beg the question doesn't it?


----------



## oboemaroni

christianhenson said:


> I had a student earlier who has been away for a week thinking he should ask for a refund without even trying it? Because of the sheer mentalness here.



But unless I've misunderstood there is no way to try this library is there? Once you download there's no recourse no matter how well or badly it works for you, that's the problem...


----------



## bvaughn0402

christianhenson said:


> I think what is also a shame is the sheer frenzy of people suggesting people demand refunds for a problem we will of course address and therefore deny people who have taken the early adoption route to get the best deal, have gone to the trouble of downloading it, or indeed paying for a hard drive. Just hang in there chaps, we're on it, its the best library we've ever built, insanely ambitious and we're sorry that we didn't see this issue at our end before launching because it didn't happen on our windows 10 machine, as it is indeed NOT happening on most windows 10 machines!



Christian, please know that there is definitely a "silent majority" on here that really appreciate what you and Paul do.

Part of the amazing aspect of the internet is that *everyone* has a voice. But as such, it can sometimes feel that even 10 negative voices is more like 1000 or even 10,000. 

What you guys have always done, and especially in BBC, is amazing. Is it perfect? Of course not. Is anything? Nope.

This idea of templates and instruction is amazing for most of us here. Yes, the VI forum can be quite grumpy at times, but it really is more a factor of handfuls of users. The majority of us here appreciate your efforts.

Please keep more sharing and instruction coming.

It is amazing as are you guys.


----------



## christianhenson

We have recommended spec and it should work fine within those recommendations, if it doesn’t then we will address those issues. If you’re not sure about buying the library have an older system or are concerned about how the thing will sound and how it will affect your workflow I recommend waiting to purchase until you have seen the insane number of videos we’re making, reading reviews or indeed trying it at a trade show or just jumping on live chat on our site for advice?


----------



## Noeticus

Christian, your Satie orchestration is not cheesy at all.

If I did not know that you had just created it, I might think that it was someting that John Barry had orchestrated for a ambient James Bond background track.


----------



## christianhenson

Mate such flattery but that string bit does have a bit of the Barry about it eh?


----------



## Michael Antrum

christianhenson said:


> Mate such flattery but that string bit does have a bit of the Barry about it eh?



Personally, I do like a bit of Barry. (and no, that is not a euphemism). 

A local boy done good was our Mr Barry.


----------



## 5Lives

christianhenson said:


> SO NERVOUS, SO EXCITED.... but this is my first go at a new kind of tutorial, one where you get to download my spoils and try for yourself. I even programmed the whole thing in mix unity so the MIDI files would translate.... let me know what you think!!!
> 
> Gulp!
> 
> 
> 
> ...and download assets here:
> 
> https://www.spitfireaudio.com/thepage/




THIS is the great promise and potential of BBCSO in my opinion. Christian - thank you for doing this and I hope you do more of these. For those of us that are not trained composers or orchestrators, are learning the basics, etc., this type of educational resource along with the MIDI (might I add for FREE), adds so much value to your product! Thank you!


----------



## ed buller

bvaughn0402 said:


> Christian, please know that there is definitely a "silent majority" on here that really appreciate what you and Paul do.



I'm NOT silent...this is an extraordinary Library !

best

e


----------



## CT

Hi there, miket from VI-Control here. I'm very excited to announce that on my under-spec computer, this plugin is so far running better than some significantly older VI's I have. 

I'm a bit astonished and cautiously awaiting some complications, but I'm thrilled so far. I think my first spin with this will be a Horner mock-up. Hope to share it soon.


----------



## dzilizzi

Dammit! This stuff is making me want to get this now. ..... And Logic. And a Mac.  

It will have to be a Hackintosh, I can't see spending $6k on a hobby computer. 

Really appreciating all these new tutorials coming out. And the downloads.


----------



## cqd

Will the tutorials not be pretty much applicable to any library?


----------



## dzilizzi

The tutorials will, the downloads might not. Only because Christian uses Logic. Can't expect him to do these things in every DAW.


----------



## vdk-john

dzilizzi said:


> The tutorials will, the downloads might not. Only because Christian uses Logic. Can't expect him to do these things in every DAW.



Maybe I misread but I think he posted another message saying the cubase version of that tutorial was also coming?





__





Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


SO NERVOUS, SO EXCITED.... but this is my first go at a new kind of tutorial, one where you get to download my spoils and try for yourself. I even programmed the whole thing in mix unity so the MIDI files would translate.... let me know what you think!!! Gulp! ...and download assets here...



vi-control.net


----------



## jbuhler

dzilizzi said:


> Dammit! This stuff is making me want to get this now. ..... And Logic. And a Mac.
> 
> It will have to be a Hackintosh, I can't see spending $6k on a hobby computer.
> 
> Really appreciating all these new tutorials coming out. And the downloads.


Assuming the memory is still user upgradeable on the 27in iMac retinas, the top of the line consumer grade i9 iMacs would likely be perfectly suitable to your needs, and from what folks have been saying the top of the line Mini would likely serve your needs as well. Assuming this was primarily to run Logic and samples. I can easily load all of SSO plus a bunch of additional libraries into 64GB on my 2015 i7 iMac. From what I've seen of it, I don't think BBCSO would pose any issues to this configuration. For me, the iMac runs silently for all tasks other than rendering audio and video. I don't run many soft synths though, so I don't know how it bear up under the strain of that.

Logic has been like a completely different program since they added the 1000 tracks and auto-disabling of unused tracks.

I've kind of wondered what the lowest spec Mini one might need to effectively host BBCSO in VEPro (and would 64GBs be enough to do it?) and then treat that almost like an external hardware unit.


----------



## Noeticus

christianhenson said:


> Mate such flattery but that string bit does have a bit of the Barry about it eh?



Yes, the strings did indeed hit me as reminiscent of John Barry. And his later orchestral work is beyond fantastic. 

Also, the Satie piece that you choose to orchetsrate is so bally good, that even on a toy music box it would still be sublime.


----------



## 5Lives

cqd said:


> Will the tutorials not be pretty much applicable to any library?



Of course they will be, but there is much value in having the MIDI to follow along with the video. You could translate that to your own template assuming you have all the required instruments and want to adjust everything to suit, but that’s the convenience of having everything all encapsulated in a single library.


----------



## CT

miket said:


> Hi there, miket from VI-Control here. I'm very excited to announce that on my under-spec computer, this plugin is so far running better than some significantly older VI's I have.
> 
> I'm a bit astonished and cautiously awaiting some complications, but I'm thrilled so far. I think my first spin with this will be a Horner mock-up. Hope to share it soon.



Still no issues an hour later. I'm making a list of things to send to support, but so far they're all about functionality of the player, rather than performance. I'm also more taken with all of the mic positions than I expected to be. May not be so quick to part with some, after all....


----------



## oboemaroni

To be honest I really like the sound and concept of bbcso, especially the idea of having a complete orchestra cohesively premixed in a good room to allow more focus on the process of arrangement instead of mixing. For me though it's a shame to have that concept somewhat hobbled by economies made in terms of the depth of sampling, which is what I'm seeing and hearing in user posts and demos so far. I would have paid more to get a really deep sampled version of this library in order to create the most convincing mock ups possible in an easy way. As it is I feel like I'd want to redo my arrangements in more extensively sampled libraries after creating in bbcso to get around its limitations. This combined with potential technical issues and not being able to return or resell means I think I'm going to get a refund, as I got the edu discount version but haven't yet downloaded. It seems like a good product for a lot of people but it's probably not for me.


----------



## cqd

oboemaroni said:


> ..I would have paid more to get a really deep sampled version of this library in order to..



+2


----------



## Zero&One

cqd said:


> +2



Hey... you added a +1... I noticed


----------



## cqd

James H said:


> Hey... you added a +1... I noticed



Is that some subtle 'stop giving out about our new library we all think is amazing' jibe?
I don't blame you..I'm finding the complaining tiresome myself at this stage..


----------



## givemenoughrope

I would buy the hell out of the string leader patches.


----------



## MaxOctane

christianhenson said:


> Check out my Satie YouTube vid...




Funny, I noticed in Christian's last video ("Server Meltdown") that he was playing around with that Satie piece.


----------



## Jett Hitt

The complaints are a bit nauseating at this point. It’s been a week. Spitfire will fix this. So what if it takes a little while to tweak a library that you will use for years? I say more chocolate covered girls while the kinks are worked out.


----------



## Alex Fraser

miket said:


> Still no issues an hour later. I'm making a list of things to send to support, but so far they're all about functionality of the player, rather than performance. I'm also more taken with all of the mic positions than I expected to be. May not be so quick to part with some, after all....


This pleases me greatly. Thanks Miket. Would you say a full orchestration using a single mic mix is in the realm of doable?


----------



## robgb

jononotbono said:


> So, upstate New York... I went to a petrol station yesterday, sorry, Gas station, and got very excited to see a Milky Way on the shelf! "Finally!" I thought. "Some decent chocolate at last". How wrong I was. Utterly disgusted with the disrespect of these heathens disguising a Mars Bar with a Milky Way wrapper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still, at least it's not a box of Quality Street.


American chocolate bars mostly suck. Go to Ikea and get some Swedish chocolate instead.


----------



## CT

Update #3:

Everything is still working fine. Pretty snappy, actually. You should wait until loading is done before playing, but it really isn't more than a few seconds for me. So, on the performance end of things, I'm really pleased, and haven't come across any real bugs yet. Again, my CPU is from 2011, so draw whatever conclusions from that you will.

A few grips about sound... like anything, especially an all-in-one, there are some weak spots. Crossfades on the solo strings (and in some other places) aren't quite as clean as they would be in a perfect world. Oboe and cor anglais are, as almost always, just slightly dodgy in the same way. There's no vibrato on the trumpets, which I think is by design and not a bug. That doesn't particularly bother me, but on the soloist, it might be nice to have the option now and then. I'll live.

"I'll live" is my reaction to everything I just listed, actually. This is not a 100% pristine set of virtual instruments, but lavish thanks to anyone who can point their finger at one that actually is. Nothing I've encountered yet, including the dynamics (which I would welcome more of, as some of you have stressed, but I'm not torn up about it), should stand in the way of anyone making a lot of great music with this. I have to stress that... there are absolutely no "dealbreakers" here, as far as I'm concerned. You can't create perfect mock-ups that will fool experienced listeners with this (or with anything). What you can do is make cohesive, balanced, and musical virtual performances with little to no technical alchemy required. That is what I wanted.

About the many mic positions... I didn't think I'd find them all as individually appealing as I do. I'm going to have to spend more time figuring out how to dial in just the sound that I want. It's also worth noting that some of the dodgyness mentioned above with the crossfades varies from position to position, as you might expect. Closer, dry samples are easier to stitch together.

I'd love to see some additional functionality overall. When keyswitching to an articulation on the next page, it would be nice for the GUI to flip to that page. Not really all that vital. The articulation management is great, and I'd like that integrated into the choir plugin, as well as the option here to turn off the "missing samples" warning, for those of us who are picking and choosing what mic's we keep.

I don't really get the thinking behind the "sustain, medium damped, damped" approach with the harp and celesta. Seems like it would be much easier and more playable if those were integrated together. Maybe I'm missing something.

Finally, what isn't here, that I'd like to see come along in the future? Solo bass trombone, alto/bass flutes, muted/stopped longs and shorts on brass, harp harmonics, bowed vibraphone, piano, and performance patches where not already present. With those additions, this would be an even more incredible collection. Oh, and there's a superball articulation on Bass Drum 2 listed that I don't think I actually saw in there....

Lots of words. The audible results speak for themselves. I'll try to get some decent ones up myself soon.



Alex Fraser said:


> This pleases me greatly. Thanks Miket. Would you say a full orchestration using a single mic mix is in the realm of doable?



I'm going to find out shortly, but at this point I would be surprised if it poses any real problems.


----------



## robgb

christianhenson said:


> SO NERVOUS, SO EXCITED.... but this is my first go at a new kind of tutorial, one where you get to download my spoils and try for yourself. I even programmed the whole thing in mix unity so the MIDI files would translate.... let me know what you think!!!
> 
> Gulp!
> 
> 
> 
> ...and download assets here:
> 
> https://www.spitfireaudio.com/thepage/



I like where @christianhenson talks about thinking of the instruments of the orchestra as separate voices. This is actually how I compose. I sing the melody, then sing the harmonies and countermelodies and translate this to the instruments. A method that has served me well.


----------



## Fleer

robgb said:


> American chocolate bars mostly suck. Go to Ikea and get some Swedish chocolate instead.


Life’s a box of chocolates from Belgium.


----------



## cqd

miket said:


> Update #3:
> 
> Everything is still working fine. Pretty snappy, actually. You should wait until loading is done before playing, but it really isn't more than a few seconds for me.



What are you waiting to load in a few seconds?..any bit of a template?

Anyway, back to complaining..would anyone seriously recommend this over Hollywood Orchestra?..It's about a third of the size without the mics..

Do ye reckon they'll go beyond the three layers for the piano?


----------



## jononotbono

robgb said:


> American chocolate bars mostly suck. Go to Ikea and get some Swedish chocolate instead.



Hey, people are getting very disgruntled with the chocolate talk. How dare you!


----------



## Michael Antrum

Have one of these on me.....


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

James H said:


> On Mac:
> Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra - Presets - User
> 
> BTW
> I've attached a mic preset if anyone can test it?
> Lives at:
> Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra - Presets - Mix
> 
> Maybe guys could share interesting or go to presets? Or maybe I can just keep my nose out?



Thanks, this is a good idea to share microphone mixes, because I don't have a SSD and to try all these microphone combinations it takes years... The only thing with multiple microphones is, of course, it takes much more RAM than one of the standard mixes. So maybe there will be other mixes in the future. I would like to have a drier version.


----------



## Zero&One

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Thanks, this is a good idea to share microphone mixes, because I don't have a SSD and to try all these microphone combinations it takes years... The only thing with multiple microphones is, of course, it takes much more RAM than one of the standard mixes. So maybe there will be other mixes in the future. I would like to have a drier version.



Yeah that's what I was thinking. Almost like low/med/high performance settings
Basic/dry
Classic
Lush/make your system cry


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

James H said:


> Yeah that's what I was thinking. Almost like low/med/high performance settings
> Basic/dry
> Classic
> Lush/make your system cry


Yes, but I mean single-microphone mixes like the JJ mixes. So that "lush" wouldn't make your system cry.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

Hello All,
for those interested I have ported the BBCSO template to Studio One:
https://vi-control.net/community/th...or-studio-one-oneorchestra.86645/post-4455077

@christianhenson: If you have interest in this, you can have a look at it.


----------



## Zedcars

An excerpt from a symphonic work called 'War Child' I started in 1997 and have been slowly orchestrating it since then (not continuously).

This is a work in progress excerpt using only BBCSO. I will try to mock-up more of this piece as the weeks unfold.

© 1997, 2019 Darren J Prescott


----------



## Fleer

Another glowing review, from MusicTech:








Review: Spitfire Audio BBC Symphony Orchestra


Spitfire Audio is an orchestral sample library offering unique capture of the world-renowned BBC Symphony Orchestra recorded at BBC Maida Vale studios, in London.




www.musictech.net


----------



## cqd

Those reviews can be taken with a pinch of salt really..

"deep sampling.."


----------



## Fleer

Absolutely, but I like to read them, especially when they’re as detailed.


----------



## cqd

Ah yeah, but more an extension of the spitfire marketing department than anything else really..


----------



## MaxOctane

cqd said:


> Those reviews can be taken with a pinch of salt really..



I think they've well-intentioned and (probably) honest, but a magazine review these days isn't worth nearly as much as these discussion threads.


----------



## prodigalson

I downloaded Christian's Satie reimagination just to see how my system would handle a fully orchestrated, multi-track project. I haven't had a chance to do that myself yet and thought it would be a good, easy quick test. I was genuinely pretty surprised. The session opened and was fully loaded into RAM in less than 3 minutes. It played back butter smooth with the exception of a very quick dropped voice when the brass comes in. Even then, my CPU stayed under 25% almost the entire time, even when multiple legato patches played concurrently. One spike to 50% when the full brass comes in. Of course, it's not the MOST complicated orchestration and not super demanding but clearly my (not so well spec'd) system handles it well.

My specs: iMac 2013, i5 quad-core, 32GB 1600Mhz DDR3 RAM, streaming from SSDs via startech USB3.0 dock.

total RAM used by Logic: 11.02GB
Spitfire player showed RAM usage at 4.58GB consistently. (not sure what the discrepancy is here)

Again, loaded fully in over 2 minutes, played back almost completely smoothly on first pass. CPU hit less than 25% the entire time.

EDIT: Also wanted to add that my buffer was set to 256


----------



## Fleer

Cheers, good news indeed, as it resembles my next set up.


----------



## bricop

Happy to report that I downloaded both of Christian's templates for his orchestration of Satie (full and laptop versions) and both work seamlessly on my 2015 2.5 i7 16GB Macbook Pro!! Had some problems on launch week but after Spitfire technical advised I change the plugin's streaming buffer to 16384 samples instead of the default 65536 all was fine. Thanks for the video Christian, very very helpful indeed and has restored my faith in the library!!! Would be great to have a version of Andy Blaney's Admiral Benbow to do some analysis.

Edit: it also works without glitch with the trailer track and these are all-in-one patches loaded using one sound!!! What kind of witchcraft is this?!!!  Plugin 5.3GB Logic memory: 16.01GB


----------



## christianhenson

Yes I should do a laptop version of the trailer track. How does your system handle the “full version” of the Satie ie full template and used tracks as all in ones?


----------



## CT

I am having a blast doing Horner with this thing, but I'm not doing the plugin nor the composer justice yet. 

It's not even hitting 9 gigs of RAM using Mix 1 and only the needed articulations, and the CPU is very calm about it, even with lots of legato patches and pretty complex textures.


----------



## christianhenson

Mix 1 is fucking good.... Great to be able to just get into it and worry about mixing to taste later.


----------



## redlester

prodigalson said:


> I downloaded Christian's Satie reimagination just to see how my system would handle a fully orchestrated, multi-track project. I haven't had a chance to do that myself yet and thought it would be a good, easy quick test. I was genuinely pretty surprised. The session opened and was fully loaded into RAM in less than 3 minutes. It played back butter smooth with the exception of a very quick dropped voice when the brass comes in. Even then, my CPU stayed under 25% almost the entire time, even when multiple legato patches played concurrently. One spike to 50% when the full brass comes in. Of course, it's not the MOST complicated orchestration and not super demanding but clearly my (not so well spec'd) system handles it well.
> 
> My specs: iMac 2013, i5 quad-core, 32GB 1600Mhz DDR3 RAM, streaming from SSDs via startech USB3.0 dock.
> 
> total RAM used by Logic: 11.02GB
> Spitfire player showed RAM usage at 4.58GB consistently. (not sure what the discrepancy is here)
> 
> Again, loaded fully in over 2 minutes, played back almost completely smoothly on first pass. CPU hit less than 25% the entire time.
> 
> EDIT: Also wanted to add that my buffer was set to 256



What was your total "Memory Used" figure in Activity Monitor as a matter of interest?


----------



## redlester

christianhenson said:


> Mix 1 is fucking good.... Great to be able to just get into it and worry about mixing to taste later.



True but I love messing about with the mics, I could get lost in that for hours. Yesterday I was trying some sounds using the spill mics only and it was inspiring ideas all the way.


----------



## christianhenson

Would love to hear more, I'm as rookie with this library as you are!


----------



## christianhenson

miket said:


> I am having a blast doing Horner with this thing, but I'm not doing the plugin nor the composer justice yet.
> 
> It's not even hitting 9 gigs of RAM using Mix 1 and only the needed articulations, and the CPU is very calm about it, even with lots of legato patches and pretty complex textures.



We're gonna be making a "user demos" section of the Page for both YouTube and Soundcloud, I know there's a lot of big composers checking all this stuff out.


----------



## ridgero

christianhenson said:


> Mix 1 is fucking good.... Great to be able to just get into it and worry about mixing to taste later.



Mix 1 + Spills = Godmode  

Which Mics were used for Mix1 and Mix2?


----------



## Zedcars

christianhenson said:


> Mix 1 is fucking good.... Great to be able to just get into it and worry about mixing to taste later.


I’m a Mix 2 guy myself... 

I like to add some spill mics which adds another dimension of realism, and if I need more clarity I’ll dial in the Close mic.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> An excerpt from a symphonic work called 'War Child' I started in 1997 and have been slowly orchestrating it since then (not continuously).
> 
> This is a work in progress excerpt using only BBCSO. I will try to mock-up more of this piece as the weeks unfold.
> 
> © 1997, 2019 Darren J Prescott




*wistfully thinks back to the naive times of 1997 and how things could have been as opposed to how they now are. Wipes tear away.


----------



## christianhenson

ridgero said:


> Mix 1 + Spills = Godmode
> 
> Which Mics were used for Mix1 and Mix2?



Andy Blaney mode!


----------



## gussunkri

ridgero said:


> Mix 1 + Spills = Godmode
> 
> Which Mics were used for Mix1 and Mix2?


It’s answered in the manual. Sorry I don’t have it in front of me.


----------



## Karma

Mix 1: Decca Tree, Outriggers, Ambient, Balcony, Mids (not on the Strings!), and Close signals.
Mix 2: Decca Tree, Outriggers, Ambient, Balcony, Sides, Atmos Front, Stereo, Mids and Close signals.

Mix 2 also has a touch of additional reverb and some EQ/Compression.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Is it possible @christianhenson that we can get the articulation icons? I want to use these as my track symbols instead of the instrument icons you made for the templates. I’m a graphic designer, so I prefer vector files, but PNG would be great, too.


----------



## Cormast

Here still get freezes and pops only playing with one patch on big chords (long violin/marcato long etc...)

And yet I run big templates with Orchestral tools Brass/strings/revive. I have loaded big OT patches in the same session I loaded BBCSO to check if they were freezing too, but no problems with them.

My computer : i7-6700k - 56Go Ram - Komplete Audio 6 Buffer 2048 - Win 10 (last version) - cubase 10

It sound amazing but I can't use it properly for the moment. I Hope an update will fix that soon !


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

I've been playing around with the library this week, and do not regret my purchase for one bit. I'm pretty much a beginner with sample music, so as a novice what I like the most so far about this library is the fact that Mix 1 just sounds fantastic out of the box. Mixing and mastering is still a bit of a black box for me, so this saves me a lot of hassle while I still need to learn a lot.

Here is a little simple composition I made this week. (BBCSO only)


----------



## EricValette

Cormast said:


> Here still get freezes and pops only playing with one patch on big chords (long violin/marcato long etc...)
> 
> And yet I run big templates with Orchestral tools Brass/strings/revive. I have loaded big OT patches in the same session I loaded BBCSO to check if they were freezing too, but no problems with them.
> 
> My computer : i7-6700k - 56Go Ram - Komplete Audio 6 Buffer 2048 - Win 10 (last version) - cubase 10
> 
> It sound amazing but I can't use it properly for the moment. I Hope an update will fix that soon !


Exactly the same situation here on a powerful Windows 10 / Cubase pro 10 system and after trying everything that was possible in terms of buffer and
preload settings, cleaning the PC, reinstallation of the plugin, checking the list of exceptions for the antivirus and Windows Defender...

I hope that the fix will arrive quickly next week because the best results I get is summed up with the following two audio examples (template loaded in the DAW with 3 instances of the plugin only and one micro position activated, 39 GB of memory used!!!):

BBCSO Tests

Well I admit, I'm a little jealous when I listen to all these beautiful demos and first tests posted here!  Especially since the sound delivered by BBCSO "out of the box" is a sound that I aspire to for many, many years now... and the mixing capabilities are really impressive, for the little that I've ever been able to try. The most frustrating thing is that the Hans Zimmer Strings and LABS versions of the same plugin work perfectly on my system (normal use of memory, very fast loading time, no freeze or pops...).

To be patient... to be patient...


----------



## gussunkri

Sjoerd Visser said:


> I've been playing around with the library this week, and do not regret my purchase for one bit. I'm pretty much a beginner with sample music, so as a novice what I like the most so far about this library is the fact that Mix 1 just sounds fantastic out of the box. Mixing and mastering is still a bit of a black box for me, so this saves me a lot of hassle while I still need to learn a lot.
> 
> Here is a little simple composition I made this week. (BBCSO only)



That is a nice track Sjoerd! The Mix 1 is indeed very appealing. Out of curiosity, I wonder how your track would sound if all "Mix 1" were changed to "Mix 2". I have yet to hear a track relying just on mix 2. (Yes, I should probably do it myself but I am swamped with non-musical work, and what I produce might not be as nice to listen to as Sjoerd's track.)


----------



## christianhenson

I would love to hear that too.... I’ll do a comparison on my Satie too!!!


----------



## Zero&One

EricValette said:


> I hope that the fix will arrive quickly next week because the best results I get is summed up with the following two audio examples (template loaded in the DAW with 3 instances of the plugin only and one micro position activated, 39 GB of memory used!!!):



FWIW those examples sound like mine when I load in too many mics, my poor old 2009 Mac has a slight seizure. Not that I'm saying that is what you are doing though. Just highlighting there's sadly something going wrong there with default settings.
Got my fingers crossed for you guys with performance issues. I'm sure they'll sort you all out asap.


----------



## dcoscina

Nice to hear some success stories with this library. It sounds quite lovely. I have to live vicariously through you guys.


----------



## christianhenson

Bit of a VI-C exclusive until we get it onto the page CUBASE version of my Satie piece: https://we.tl/t-uAmqxBx56L


----------



## ridgero

It's a strange feeling to open Christian's project file :D

Thank you very much for that!


----------



## styledelk

Sjoerd Visser said:


> I've been playing around with the library this week, and do not regret my purchase for one bit. I'm pretty much a beginner with sample music, so as a novice what I like the most so far about this library is the fact that Mix 1 just sounds fantastic out of the box. Mixing and mastering is still a bit of a black box for me, so this saves me a lot of hassle while I still need to learn a lot.
> 
> Here is a little simple composition I made this week. (BBCSO only)




If this is your beginner sound... just wow.


----------



## christianhenson

ridgero said:


> It's a strange feeling to open Christian's project file :D
> 
> Thank you very much for that!



Sorry about the coffee stains, finger grease and porno mags (shows age).


----------



## Noeticus

christianhenson said:


> Sorry about the coffee stains, finger grease and porno mags (shows age).



I say... good show, old chap!

Oh, and comments like that will cause this marvelous thread to reach 7000 posts rather soon.

Also, Christian, I hope you are a "Monty Python" fan?


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

gussunkri said:


> That is a nice track Sjoerd! The Mix 1 is indeed very appealing. Out of curiosity, I wonder how your track would sound if all "Mix 1" were changed to "Mix 2". I have yet to hear a track relying just on mix 2. (Yes, I should probably do it myself but I am swamped with non-musical work, and what I produce might not be as nice to listen to as Sjoerd's track.)



Thanks for the nice words  I will bounce the track in Mix 2 in a bit when I have time!


----------



## bricop

It's so nice to be able to analyse Christian's midi controller data which seems to show the expression data running almost in parallel with the modulation data. Does anyone know how to copy modulation data to expression data in Logic X? Thinking that copying the data a increasing it by xx% might produce effective expression data.


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

Talking about the "god mode" btw.. how do people go around using the spill mics in addition to Mix 1/2? Not sure which one to pick instead of all, and how much of it. Didn't use any in my track.


----------



## dzilizzi

Aren't the spill mics the close mics on other instruments? So you would want to load the spills from a nearby instrument section first and see how it goes?


----------



## vdk-john

christianhenson said:


> Bit of a VI-C exclusive until we get it onto the page CUBASE version of my Satie piece: https://we.tl/t-uAmqxBx56L



As a beginner and Cubase user this is gold for me and I really appreciate you (/ you folks) finding the time to make this.

Also, don't want to "therape" you, but please make sure you save some time to unplug and rest


----------



## Zero&One

dzilizzi said:


> Aren't the spill mics the close mics on other instruments? So you would want to load the spills from a nearby instrument section first and see how it goes?



Or Spill full, grab em all


----------



## dzilizzi

James H said:


> Or Spill full, grab em all


Well, I'm kind of thinking you don't need the spills from the instrument you are playing. Unless you forget all the regular mics and just use spills. That might be interesting.


----------



## TGV

bricop said:


> Does anyone know how to copy modulation data to expression data in Logic X?


MIDI Transform. Create a new one, and set the top row to status controller, byte 1= 1 (the controller number is the first byte). Set everything in the bottom row on thru, except the first byte, which you fix at 11, and be sure to set the mode to "copy", like in the attached image, only with a more informative name.

Should you wish, you could also change byte 2, e.g. by scaling it by 1.25.

BTW, you can also set a transformer on the input to copy CC1 data to CC11 with a certain scaling.


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

Sjoerd Visser said:


>




Here's the same track with all instruments changed to Mix 2. Didn't expect it to differ this much!


----------



## wbacer

christianhenson said:


> Bit of a VI-C exclusive until we get it onto the page CUBASE version of my Satie piece: https://we.tl/t-uAmqxBx56L


Great job with the Cubase file, thank you Christian. 
Your template works great in its default state but... when I add extra mic positions, I get pops, clicks and voices dropping out. I'm on a Windows 10 - 18 core i9 PC with 128 gigs of RAM. CPU is only at 11% and only using 40% of RAM. Running the latest version of Cubase. Hoping that this week's BBC update will allow for the use of additional mic positions...fingers crossed.


----------



## widekeys

Sjoerd Visser said:


> Here's the same track with all instruments changed to Mix 2. Didn't expect it to differ this much!



Thank you for taking the time to do this! It really is a huge difference.


----------



## gussunkri

dzilizzi said:


> Well, I'm kind of thinking you don't need the spills from the instrument you are playing. Unless you forget all the regular mics and just use spills. That might be interesting.


You might be right, but I was thinking that you would get spill also from these sections. For example, when playing the cello, this would still result in spill in the violin, viola, and bass mics, so the spill mic from the strings would still be relevant.

I would love to learn more about the spill mic full. Is it all the other spill mics at full blast or something else?


----------



## prodigalson

redlester said:


> What was your total "Memory Used" figure in Activity Monitor as a matter of interest?



Memory Used was 20GB. Here is a screenshot of system status at the heaviest point in the playback.


----------



## gussunkri

Sjoerd Visser said:


> Here's the same track with all instruments changed to Mix 2. Didn't expect it to differ this much!



Thank you for taking the time to do this!
I tried to compensate for the difference in volume, but even so the difference was massive. I have been liking mix 1 a lot, but I must say, after hearing mix 2 like this I might prefer it. I thought that mix 2 might make the sound a bit flatter (in that everything sounds closer), but I didn't find that to be the case with your track. I guess that Jake Jackson bloke knows what he is doing...


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

gussunkri said:


> Thank you for taking the time to do this!
> I tried to compensate for the difference in volume, but even so the difference was massive. I have been liking mix 1 a lot, but I must say, after hearing mix 2 like this I might prefer it. I thought that mix 2 might make the sound a bit flatter (in that everything sounds closer), but I didn't find that to be the case with your track. I guess that Jake Jackson bloke knows what he is doing...



Yeah, it was a bit tricky getting the levels right. I've left everything else untouched. In my mastering session I've pushed up the original mix up 8.48db, For mix 2 I've only had to push it up 5.85db to get the peak on the same level. So.. pretty big difference there as well


----------



## zolhof

Sup guys and gals, this is a follow up to a previous post where I compared the BBCSO to Berlin Strings. I had some off time today and benchmarked the sh!t out of CH's Satie project on Windows 10 and Cubase, in case you want to compare notes. Hope that helps!

*Default Preload and Stream buffer



*


5:31 loading time
125MB/s average disk activity while loading
23.0% CPU during the busiest section
No disk activity during playback
Perfect playback

*Stream Buffer @ 16384. Direct comparison to @bricop 's **notes*






5:25 loading time
125MB/s average disk activity while loading
20.5% CPU during the busiest section
No disk activity during playback
Perfect playback

*Minimum Preload/Stream buffer*






4:50 loading time
145MB/s average disk activity while loading
19.2% CPU during the busiest section
No disk activity whastoever, even though we are using the lowest setting possible for disk streaming.
Choppy playback since there is no streaming going on.

There's something very odd with how the player streams (or not) and manages memory. Read @Saigen 's post for more details.

The Satie project is cool to compare notes but anything beefier with lots of microphones is not working very well on the Windows machines I tested.

My template consists mostly of Orchestral Tools, ProjectSAM and Cinesamples. It runs flawlessly, still maintaining a generous memory headroom and blazing fast loading times. That's on 32GB of RAM and an FX8350 @ 4.5Ghz (home rig)

The composer I assist is also experiencing issues with his two 9900K, 128GB each. The Spitfire player is retaining a huge amount of reserved RAM and suddenly purges almost all memory in the middle of a dense cue and we have to reload the project. That's a real pain since the instruments are taking a long time to load off the SSD. Even the preview sounds take almost a minute to load, which is very bizarre.

As part of my job, I've put a lot of energy into this and hit a brick wall. I truly hope that Spitfire manages to fix all isues for Windows users. There's a lot to like about the BBCSO, it's a great jack of all trades and I'll expand more on that when I have a chance. I've learned a long ago to not let any tech frustations get ahead of creativity. Always remember that Sgt Peppers was recorded on a four track...


----------



## Andrew0568

How are people EQ'ing these? I feel like there's a lot of low mids that give it a "real" or "raw" tone if that makes any sense

Very simple test, but this is the Shawshank Redemption prison theme without EQ and then with a fair amount of EQ cutting. All mic Mix 2


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

zolhof said:


> Even the preview sounds take almost a minute to load, which is very bizarre.


The preview sounds might be part of the problem. Because it accesses the sample files for all instruments, even those you don't even load (it does not really load much, but somehow these "touched" files get mapped to memory).
What my experience is: The timeperiod where the player loads the preview sounds (first time you open the instrument dropdown menu in the first opened instance) is extremely fragile. The player has become more stable, when I don't do anything in the player within this timeframe.


----------



## AllanH

I've reported similar oddities regarding reports memory usage inside the player vs. by the host operating system. Using Cubase, I also found that unloading articulations does not release all memory for the articulations. For now, I load the articulations I'm interested in, save and reload the project to get the smallest amount of RAM consumption.


----------



## bricop

TGV said:


> MIDI Transform. Create a new one, and set the top row to status controller, byte 1= 1 (the controller number is the first byte). Set everything in the bottom row on thru, except the first byte, which you fix at 11, and be sure to set the mode to "copy", like in the attached image, only with a more informative name.
> 
> Should you wish, you could also change byte 2, e.g. by scaling it by 1.25.
> 
> BTW, you can also set a transformer on the input to copy CC1 data to CC11 with a certain scaling.


Many thanks for this. I'd love to set up a transformer as you described. Would you mind showing me how this would be set up in the environment? Thanks Brian


----------



## widekeys

Anyone else getting the feeling that a lot of stuff is not chromatically sampled but rather whole-tone and transposed?




In this png you can see chromatically played pitches (each chromatic set played twice), the waveform is clearly the same for neighbouring pitches. This was taken from the Solo Horn Long patch, the same applies to many other instruments (I have not tested all of them). It is very clear on patches without round robin (or turning round robin off).
audio example of horn solo is attached.

I noticed it when I was turning neighbour zone round robin on for the harp long articulation (unfortunately it was not sampled with round robins). The player plays the same sample two times, then another one.


EDIT:
attached a 4 horns chromatic scale picture.


----------



## ridgero

Andrew0568 said:


> How are people EQ'ing these? I feel like there's a lot of low mids that give it a "real" or "raw" tone if that makes any sense
> 
> Very simple test, but this is the Shawshank Redemption prison theme without EQ and then with a fair amount of EQ cutting. All mic Mix 2




Did you use CS?

The original sounds definitely like CS


----------



## gussunkri

widekeys said:


> Anyone else getting the feeling that a lot of stuff is not chromatically sampled but rather whole-tone and transposed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this png you can see chromatically played pitches (each chromatic set played twice), the waveform is clearly the same for neighbouring pitches. This was taken from the Solo Horn Long patch, the same applies to many other instruments (I have not tested all of them). It is very clear on patches without round robin (or turning round robin off).
> audio example of horn solo is attached.
> 
> I noticed it when I was turning neighbour zone round robin on for the harp long articulation (unfortunately it was not sampled with round robins). The player plays the same sample two times, then another one.


Yes, that seems pretty obvious also from listening. But that is true for most (all except symphonic organ) Spitfire library so that was totally expected when buying. I don't think that has been a big secret. (For any of their Kontakt library, for any patch not containing legato, one could just check and see for oneself.)


----------



## widekeys

gussunkri said:


> Yes, that seems pretty obvious also from listening. But that is true for most (all except symphonic organ) Spitfire library so that was totally expected when buying. I don't think that has been a big secret. (For any of their Kontakt library, for any patch not containing legato, one could just check and see for oneself.)


I don't think it is that big of a drawback. Will hardly be noticed in context of an orchestrated piece.


----------



## Jdiggity1

widekeys said:


> Anyone else getting the feeling that a lot of stuff is not chromatically sampled but rather whole-tone and transposed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this png you can see chromatically played pitches (each chromatic set played twice), the waveform is clearly the same for neighbouring pitches. This was taken from the Solo Horn Long patch, the same applies to many other instruments (I have not tested all of them). It is very clear on patches without round robin (or turning round robin off).
> audio example of horn solo is attached.
> 
> I noticed it when I was turning neighbour zone round robin on for the harp long articulation (unfortunately it was not sampled with round robins). The player plays the same sample two times, then another one.
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> attached a 4 horns chromatic scale picture.


I don't know of a single orchestral library that samples chromatically. This is perfectly normal.


----------



## widekeys

Jdiggity1 said:


> I don't know of a single orchestral library that samples chromatically. This is perfectly normal.


I attached the solo horn of HWB. Looks chromatic to me in most places. (this was not the RR patch)


----------



## cqd

You can't really compare it to EWHO though..EWHO is a much more substantial library..


----------



## haus.media

bricop said:


> Happy to report that I downloaded both of Christian's templates for his orchestration of Satie (full and laptop versions) and both work seamlessly on my 2015 2.5 i7 16GB Macbook Pro!! Had some problems on launch week but after Spitfire technical advised I change the plugin's streaming buffer to 16384 samples instead of the default 65536 all was fine. Thanks for the video Christian, very very helpful indeed and has restored my faith in the library!!! Would be great to have a version of Andy Blaney's Admiral Benbow to do some analysis.
> 
> Edit: it also works without glitch with the trailer track and these are all-in-one patches loaded using one sound!!! What kind of witchcraft is this?!!!  Plugin 5.3GB Logic memory: 16.01GB



I was just about to post for help when I read through the @bricop post. The issue I was having was that the Satie piece (either full or laptop version didn't seem to make a difference) would play to about bar 48 where everything (multiple sections and articulations) seems to come in full and the audio would "tear". First I thought it was a clocking issue because that is what it sounded like. But it always happened at the same point (bar 48)...well, actually, in fact if I tried to play the piece immediately again it would exhibit the same behavior from the start. Tearing/buzzing of the audio. Almost like too many voices were being used and the last to the party had to revert to the buzzing noise.

Reading the above post, I dove into the plugin settings and adjusted to the following settings:

Maximum Voices: 768 (Default 512)
Preload size: 6144 (Default 12288)
Stream Buffer Size: 8192 (Default 65536)
Maximum Pitch Voices: 12 (Default 8)

These changes took care of the audio issues and had minimal system impact as far as I can see. All project files, trailer and Satie full and laptop are playing back flawlessly. 

My system is as follows:

iMac Late 2014 - 27" 5K
4 Ghz i7
32 GB Ram
1 TB SSD Internal
1 TB SA SSD (BBCSO Loaded and using this for project files as well

Logic Ram - 15 GB
BBCSO Plugin - 3.15 GB (I assume this is lower because I have lowered the Preload size?)
Logic I /O Buffer Size - 256

@christianhenson - could you elaborate on tweaking the plug in settings for optimal usage? Do the settings above work best when they are some divisible number of the default number in the settings? (i.e. 8 x 8192 = 65536)

I should have said first that I love this plugin (as my first Orchestral collection), I love your videos, I love Spitfire, I love the BBC, I love London, I love Scotland....I could go on.

Thank you so much for not just shoving another piece of software out the door for profit but caring about your user base enough to see that they become a part of the story. From letting us inside to see the people and the processes in developing and supporting something like this to the almost immediate release of project files so us less accomplished musical folks can dissect them and learn from them and thus be miles ahead on creating our own music to accompany our own life story.

I can't wait to see what comes next! (Maida Vale IR's and a BBC piano are on my Christmas list.... 

Cheers!

Jonathan


----------



## widekeys

cqd said:


> You can't really compare it to EWHO though..EWHO is a much more substantial library..


You can't compare them for a lot of reasons. After playing around a bit I see the BBCSO as a very nice addition to my EWHO, it has a very different sound quality.


----------



## Andrew0568

ridgero said:


> Did you use CS?
> 
> The original sounds definitely like CS



Everything is from BBCSO. The first clip is completely out-of-the-box. In the second, I took ~1-4db of low mids out of each instrument to get rid of some of the "woodiness" to see how it translated to my car stereo


----------



## ridgero

Andrew0568 said:


> Everything is from BBCSO. The first clip is completely out-of-the-box. In the second, I took ~1-4db of low mids out of each instrument to get rid of some of the "woodiness" to see how it translated to my car stereo



I mean Con Sordino, not Cinematic Strings 

Con Sordino / Flautando / Sul Tasto -> those will make the difference in this piece.


----------



## Andrew0568

ridgero said:


> I mean Con Sordino, not Cinematic Strings



 lol oops


----------



## cqd

That's another thing..there's very little sordino in the con sordino patches..


----------



## ridgero

Andrew0568 said:


> lol oops



I would love to hear how it went with the CS patches.


----------



## Zero&One

cqd said:


> ..there's very little sordino in the con sordino patches..



But...
Who put the bop in the bop shoo bop shoo bop ?

Sorry


----------



## CT

I've only put a few hours into this over the last two days, so it's hardly the kind of photorealistic mock-up that some are able to pull off, but it's been a fun way to get to know this plugin and how it behaves on my computer (the answer is: just fine).


----------



## curtisschweitzer

miket said:


> I've only put a few hours into this over the last two days, so it's hardly the kind of photorealistic mock-up that some are able to pull off, but it's been a fun way to get to know this plugin and how it behaves on my computer (the answer is: just fine).




What a lovely choice of cue to mockup, and some lovely sounds in it to boot!


----------



## gonzalobasterra

I'm really enjoying the clarity on the mix for all the demos out there. Looking forward to see that fix so I can buy it.
Also do we know if they are going to offer the discount price during black friday?


----------



## emasters

gonzalobasterra said:


> Also do we know if they are going to offer the discount price during black friday?



In an earlier post a few hundred pages ago, they said the same intro price for Black Friday and Holiday Wish List. Not a Spitfire employee, so only repeating what I read. I guess we'll find out later this month....


----------



## NoamL

Sjoerd Visser said:


> Here's the same track with all instruments changed to Mix 2. Didn't expect it to differ this much!




wow. that's eye opening. I like mix 2 a lot for your piece. Mix 1 for more classical pieces. The inter-instrument balance in both mixes is great. I dunno that I'd ever use anything besides JJ-1 and JJ-2!

Do both of these projects have the spills up? or are the spills included in JJ's mix?


----------



## ridgero

Found that on Youtube


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

NoamL said:


> wow. that's eye opening. I like mix 2 a lot for your piece. Mix 1 for more classical pieces. The inter-instrument balance in both mixes is great. I dunno that I'd ever use anything besides JJ-1 and JJ-2!
> 
> Do both of these projects have the spills up? or are the spills included in JJ's mix?



From the manual:

*Mix 1*
_Jake Jackson’s mix, which is a balance of commonly used microphone positions. A great starting point! This is specifically a mix of the Decca Tree, Outriggers, Ambient, Balcony, Mids (not on the Strings!), and Close signals.

*Mix 2*
Jake Jackson’s second mix, which is a bit more ‘hyped’ in sound, with some added Compression, EQ, and Reverb. This is specifically a mix of the Decca Tree, Outriggers, Ambient, Balcony, Sides, Atmos Front, Stereo, Mids and Close signals. 

Neither of Jake’s mixes use the Spill signals, so these can be dialled in as bonus!_

I did not use spills in both of the projects. Probably a good time to start experimenting!


----------



## redlester

zolhof said:


> Sup guys and gals, this is a follow up to a previous post where I compared the BBCSO to Berlin Strings. I had some off time today and benchmarked the sh!t out of CH's Satie project on Windows 10 and Cubase, in case you want to compare notes. Hope that helps!
> 
> *Default Preload and Stream buffer
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 5:31 loading time
> 125MB/s average disk activity while loading
> 23.0% CPU during the busiest section
> No disk activity during playback
> Perfect playback
> 
> *Stream Buffer @ 16384. Direct comparison to @bricop 's **notes*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5:25 loading time
> 125MB/s average disk activity while loading
> 20.5% CPU during the busiest section
> No disk activity during playback
> Perfect playback
> 
> *Minimum Preload/Stream buffer*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4:50 loading time
> 145MB/s average disk activity while loading
> 19.2% CPU during the busiest section
> No disk activity whastoever, even though we are using the lowest setting possible for disk streaming.
> Choppy playback since there is no streaming going on.
> 
> There's something very odd with how the player streams (or not) and manages memory. Read @Saigen 's post for more details.
> 
> The Satie project is cool to compare notes but anything beefier with lots of microphones is not working very well on the Windows machines I tested.
> 
> My template consists mostly of Orchestral Tools, ProjectSAM and Cinesamples. It runs flawlessly, still maintaining a generous memory headroom and blazing fast loading times. That's on 32GB of RAM and an FX8350 @ 4.5Ghz (home rig)
> 
> The composer I assist is also experiencing issues with his two 9900K, 128GB each. The Spitfire player is retaining a huge amount of reserved RAM and suddenly purges almost all memory in the middle of a dense cue and we have to reload the project. That's a real pain since the instruments are taking a long time to load off the SSD. Even the preview sounds take almost a minute to load, which is very bizarre.
> 
> As part of my job, I've put a lot of energy into this and hit a brick wall. I truly hope that Spitfire manages to fix all isues for Windows users. There's a lot to like about the BBCSO, it's a great jack of all trades and I'll expand more on that when I have a chance. I've learned a long ago to not let any tech frustations get ahead of creativity. Always remember that Sgt Peppers was recorded on a four track...



So no matter what you do your initial loading time is 4/5 minutes? 

In Christian's video we see the loading time as 47 seconds, now this is on an iMac Pro with 128GB RAM but is there anything else which could affect this huge discrepancy? Does the nature of the SSD interface (USB, docking station, internal, via a hub etc.) make a big difference to this?

Or is this another Logic/Mac v. Cubase/Windows issue?


----------



## Bluemount Score

Sjoerd Visser said:


> From the manual:
> 
> *Mix 1*
> _Jake Jackson’s mix, which is a balance of commonly used microphone positions. A great starting point! This is specifically a mix of the Decca Tree, Outriggers, Ambient, Balcony, Mids (not on the Strings!), and Close signals.
> 
> *Mix 2*
> Jake Jackson’s second mix, which is a bit more ‘hyped’ in sound, with some added Compression, EQ, and Reverb. This is specifically a mix of the Decca Tree, Outriggers, Ambient, Balcony, Sides, Atmos Front, Stereo, Mids and Close signals.
> 
> Neither of Jake’s mixes use the Spill signals, so these can be dialled in as bonus!_
> 
> I did not use spills in both of the projects. Probably a good time to start experimenting!


Great find, thank you!


----------



## I like music

One thing that draws me to all of these is the sheer clarity of the sound. Nice @miket


----------



## TGV

bricop said:


> Many thanks for this. I'd love to set up a transformer as you described. Would you mind showing me how this would be set up in the environment? Thanks Brian


I said Transformer, but that's the old fashioned way. I'm using a "Modifier" nowadays, which you can insert as a MIDI effect before the plugin. If you set it as in the attached image, it copies the modwheel (CC1) to expression (CC11); you can e.g. add 25% by setting the scale slider to 125%. Save it as a preset for quick recall.


----------



## Hadrondrift

I like music said:


> One thing that draws me to all of these is the sheer clarity of the sound.


Hmmm... For me, "out-of-the-box" mock ups often sound a bit muddy and could at least benefit from EQing the mids. Well, may also depend on which microphones people choose.


----------



## Alex Fraser

emasters said:


> In an earlier post a few hundred pages ago, they said the same intro price for Black Friday and Holiday Wish List. Not a Spitfire employee, so only repeating what I read. I guess we'll find out later this month....


"BBC Symphony Orchestra will be included in our upcoming Black Friday and Christmas sales at the introductory price."








Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra Core


BBC Symphony Orchestra Core is the gold standard in orchestral sampling, featuring essential instruments, one mix signal and the full range of articulations.



www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## Alex Fraser

miket said:


> I've only put a few hours into this over the last two days, so it's hardly the kind of photorealistic mock-up that some are able to pull off, but it's been a fun way to get to know this plugin and how it behaves on my computer (the answer is: just fine).



Lovely stuff. Great to see the 'ol lady iMac is holding up. What storage solution did you settle on for this if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Also, whilst I'm spamming the thread, @redlester found this a few days back on Twitter and I can't begin to explain what a massive boon for BBCSO Logic users this is. I'm surprised it hasn't got more love:



This Twitter user has spent at least 2 days in the (miserable) articulation map editor to create these for the benefit of everyone else. Would love to see them posted on the Spitfire page.


----------



## Brasart

Hello,

I've been lurking from time to time on VI, but this is my very first post.
I've created an account because I really wanted to thank both @christianhenson and @paulthomson for all of the wonderful libraries that have inspired many of my cues, and for the excellent online content you both provide!

I'm having a great time with BBCSO so far (Ableton Live 10; iMac 2017 27", 3,4Ghz i5 quadcore, 40Go RAM).
I can't wait to get more time to do full orchestral music again, but here's a little demo of the library using a cue I'm working on — I really really love the sound of leaders instruments with the array of close mics!

Leaders instruments only, mics mix: Mix1, CloseWide, Stereo, Leader
No additional treatment except a L2 on my master


----------



## thereus

I really like Spitfire's products and I don't mind a bit of even shameless promotion, but I am feeling really quite bugged by this "universal starting point" business. It feels like nothing to do with the library or the library's reason for being created and like complete nonsense designed to "disrupt" rather than contribute something new. The two points of the library is surely preservation of the BBCSO/Maida Vale sound when Maida Vale closes and to present an increased sound-palette by using more mics. What a wonderful idea. However, it is not possible to make such a library into what Spitfire are attempting to claim it is. Sooner or later, it will be impossible to record any more sounds to augment it. Why is EWHO not a universal starting point or SSO? Why not spend the money recording a studio percussion module and make that a universal starting point. It's a load of nonsense and will be forgotten as soon as SA have something new to plug. They increasingly seem to walk a strange tight-rope betwee presenting themselves as honest, trustworthy folk offering those lower down the industry a ladder up and on the other hand, seducing them to hand over the cash on the basis of very unreliable concepts. They have every right to say what they like about their products, but marketing bullshit is marketing bullshit. Let's not be scared of calling it what it is.


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> Also, whilst I'm spamming the thread, @redlester found this a few days back on Twitter and I can't begin to explain what a massive boon for BBCSO Logic users this is. I'm surprised it hasn't got more love:
> 
> 
> 
> This Twitter user has spent at least 2 days in the (miserable) articulation map editor to create these for the benefit of everyone else. Would love to see them posted on the Spitfire page.




I haven’t even had time to actually look into that yet.


----------



## gussunkri

thereus said:


> I really like Spitfire's products and I don't mind a bit of even shameless promotion, but I am feeling really quite bugged by this "universal starting point" business. It feels like nothing to do with the library or the library's reason for being created and like complete nonsense designed to "disrupt" rather than contribute something new. The two points of the library is surely preservation of the BBCSO/Maida Vale sound when Maida Vale closes and to present an increased sound-palette by using more mics. What a wonderful idea. However, it is not possible to make such a library into what Spitfire are attempting to claim it is. Sooner or later, it will be impossible to record any more sounds to augment it. Why is EWHO not a universal starting point or SSO? Why not spend the money recording a studio percussion module and make that a universal starting point. It's a load of nonsense and will be forgotten as soon as SA have something new to plug. They increasingly seem to walk a strange tight-rope betwee presenting themselves as honest, trustworthy folk offering those lower down the industry a ladder up and on the other hand, seducing them to hand over the cash on the basis of very unreliable concepts. They have every right to say what they like about their products, but marketing bullshit is marketing bullshit. Let's not be scared of calling it what it is.


Well, Spitfire can probably answer for themselves, but here is my take on this. Why don't Spitfire plug the universal starting point as EWHO? Well... fairly obvious it is not made by them. Why not the studio orchestra or the SSO? Well, in both cases you would need to buy a whole range of products, whereas the idea with the BBCSO is that you get a complete orchestra in one product. The other thing with the universal starting point is the educational side. I wasn't sure where they were going with "The Page" and I wasn't sure about the concept, but I must say that already what Paul and Christian has provided is really helpful and suggest a very exciting future. 
https://www.spitfireaudio.com/thepage/
Sure, they _also_ do this to sell the product. But all companies use marketing, at least their marketing spin is helpful. (I've learned so much from Christian's, Paul's and Spitfire's youtube channels.) Maybe I am naive (but then again, maaaaaybe you are a tiny bit cynical). I don't know.


----------



## thereus

gussunkri said:


> Well, Spitfire can probably answer for themselves, but here is my take on this. Why don't Spitfire plug the universal starting point as EWHO? Well... fairly obvious it is not made by them. Why not the studio orchestra or the SSO? Well, in both cases you would need to buy a whole range of products, whereas the idea with the BBCSO is that you get a complete orchestra in one product. The other thing with the universal starting point is the educational side. I wasn't sure where they were going with "The Page" and I wasn't sure about the concept, but I must say that already what Paul and Christian has provided is really helpful and suggest a very exciting future.
> https://www.spitfireaudio.com/thepage/
> Sure, they _also_ do this to sell the product. But all companies use marketing, at least their marketing spin is helpful. (I've learned so much from Christian's, Paul's and Spitfire's youtube channels.) Maybe I am naive (but then again, maaaaaybe you are a tiny bit cynical). I don't know.



I very much agree. I think the educational and creative content the provide is wonderful. Absolutely no question. I don't think that's at issue. "Universal Starting Point", however, is what feels cynical to me.


----------



## redlester

gussunkri said:


> Well, Spitfire can probably answer for themselves, but here is my take on this. Why don't Spitfire plug the universal starting point as EWHO? Well... fairly obvious it is not made by them. Why not the studio orchestra or the SSO? Well, in both cases you would need to buy a whole range of products, whereas the idea with the BBCSO is that you get a complete orchestra in one product. The other thing with the universal starting point is the educational side. I wasn't sure where they were going with "The Page" and I wasn't sure about the concept, but I must say that already what Paul and Christian has provided is really helpful and suggest a very exciting future.
> https://www.spitfireaudio.com/thepage/
> Sure, they _also_ do this to sell the product. But all companies use marketing, at least their marketing spin is helpful. (I've learned so much from Christian's, Paul's and Spitfire's youtube channels.) Maybe I am naive (but then again, maaaaaybe you are a tiny bit cynical). I don't know.



Agree. Don’t think Spitfire do any comparible full orchestra other than the Albions which don’t really compare? In that sense, in the context of their own products, it’s fair to suggest it as a “universal starting point” for those who require what it offers. As I’ve said before, the very first thing Christian said about BBC SO was that it “won’t be for everyone”. Of course, they don’t say that in the marketing but nor would I expect them to.


----------



## cqd

The very first thing he said about it was that it was going to be a feckin revolution in sampling..This was back in April..I'd say in some ways the hype has come back to bite them on the ass with this one though..


----------



## gussunkri

cqd said:


> The very first thing he said about it was that it was going to be a feckin revolution in sampling..This was back in April..I'd say in some ways the hype has come back to bite them on the ass with this one though..


I don't know why I feel the need to answer for the Spitfire guys (to be perfectly honest I am probably procrastinating some tedious work I need to do), but perhaps what Christian says makes perfect sense from one perspective. I guess we VI-C geeks tend to think of "revolution in sampling" in terms of the largest number of round robins/dynamic layers, or technically flawless legato, but my hunch (partly based on what Christian tended to say on his youtube channel before the release) is that Christian had something else in mind. The revolution he had in mind is perhaps the official recognition of sampling as a valid approach to music making from a well established institution such as BBC (which I guess will mean much more if you are Brittish), whereas the world of sampling has existed on the fringe of "proper grown up" music making as done by orchestras for national TV.

/Kristoffer


----------



## John R Wilson

thereus said:


> I really like Spitfire's products and I don't mind a bit of even shameless promotion, but I am feeling really quite bugged by this "universal starting point" business. It feels like nothing to do with the library or the library's reason for being created and like complete nonsense designed to "disrupt" rather than contribute something new. The two points of the library is surely preservation of the BBCSO/Maida Vale sound when Maida Vale closes and to present an increased sound-palette by using more mics. What a wonderful idea. However, it is not possible to make such a library into what Spitfire are attempting to claim it is. Sooner or later, it will be impossible to record any more sounds to augment it. Why is EWHO not a universal starting point or SSO? Why not spend the money recording a studio percussion module and make that a universal starting point. It's a load of nonsense and will be forgotten as soon as SA have something new to plug. They increasingly seem to walk a strange tight-rope betwee presenting themselves as honest, trustworthy folk offering those lower down the industry a ladder up and on the other hand, seducing them to hand over the cash on the basis of very unreliable concepts. They have every right to say what they like about their products, but marketing bullshit is marketing bullshit. Let's not be scared of calling it what it is.




I feel that EWHO, SSO and the BBCSO could all be used as a starting point. However, for me it is very enticing to have a whole cohesive orchestra in one singular package that can be used as a starting point for most orchestral arrangements and can then be built upon whenever may be needed, however, at the same time EWHO does provide all the sections of an orchestra in a package for a cheaper price which also includes more dynamic layers and more articulations. So the question for me would be what would make the best starting point between the all in one packages that provide all the main sections of an orchestra such as EWHO, BBSO and SSO?


----------



## redlester

cqd said:


> The very first thing he said about it was that it was going to be a feckin revolution in sampling..



Ha ha I don't remember that but I can imagine. A revolution as in new ways of doing things could be said about their FLAC files, perhaps? I can't be bothered to look but didn't they say it would have taken up 1.5TB without that?

Then again on the down side it could be said to be a "revolution" for some in literal terms of technical issues going round and round in circles!


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

gussunkri said:


> The revolution he had in mind is perhaps the official recognition of sampling as a valid approach to music making from a well established institution such as BBC (which I guess will mean much more if you are Brittish), whereas the world of sampling has existed on the fringe of "proper grown up" music making as done by orchestras for national TV.



What does that even mean? Pay a grand for a product that's not better than our other products, but it says "BBC" so you can feel less inadequate?
In a nutshell, that means "we did this product because we can attach a famous name to it". Which is an OK approach and something SF generally does a lot. It's like signature guitars and stuff. People buy things because it says "Yngwie Malmsteen" or "Cristiano Ronaldo" on them. But there's nothing quantifiably "revolutionary" about that, and most certainly not in a way that would improve your music making.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I think revolution is a fair enough word here:

First time a national broadcaster, orchestra and sample dev have worked together on a large scale product.
The amount of signals recorded. (Did you see the custom recording rig used? Crazy stuff.)
Two years worth of sampling, not to mention the custom tech that must of been involved in the coding and sample chopping.
No matter how you feel about the library, it's fair to say it's introduction marks a few "firsts" if nothing else. Whether those are relevant to individuals as an aid to music making, I guess that's to taste.


----------



## Zero&One

haus.media said:


> Reading the above post, I dove into the plugin settings and adjusted to the following settings:
> 
> Maximum Voices: 768 (Default 512)
> Preload size: 6144 (Default 12288)
> Stream Buffer Size: 8192 (Default 65536)
> Maximum Pitch Voices: 12 (Default 8)
> 
> These changes took care of the audio issues and had minimal system impact as far as I can see. All project files, trailer and Satie full and laptop are playing back flawlessly.



Awesome thanks. I used these settings and zero issues. Previously, if I used a few mics I would get some issues.
Issues be gone!

Slapped several mics on each instance of this and no pops clops pings or pongs!


----------



## Zero&One

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> People buy things because it says "Yngwie Malmsteen" or "Cristiano Ronaldo" on them.




"I do not agree with Jimmy" - _Yngwie J Malmsteen_


----------



## SupremeFist

Starting point does not imply finishing point, sounds fine to me.


----------



## CT

Alex Fraser said:


> Lovely stuff. Great to see the 'ol lady iMac is holding up. What storage solution did you settle on for this if you don't mind me asking?



I just put it right on my internal SSD. Now that I know you can bin samples from the SF Player, I have plenty of space.


----------



## Gerbil

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> People buy things because it says "Yngwie Malmsteen" or "Cristiano Ronaldo" on them.


Imagine a Ronaldo sample library. Patches include: 'Keepy-Uppy', 'Chest thump', 'Lube' and 'Peacock'.


----------



## thereus

Alex Fraser said:


> I think revolution is a fair enough word here:
> 
> First time a national broadcaster, orchestra and sample dev have worked together on a large scale product.
> The amount of signals recorded. (Did you see the custom recording rig used? Crazy stuff.)
> Two years worth of sampling, not to mention the custom tech that must of been involved in the coding and sample chopping.
> No matter how you feel about the library, it's fair to say it's introduction marks a few "firsts" if nothing else. Whether those are relevant to individuals as an aid to music making, I guess that's to taste.



Sure. I don’t disagree with any of that. I am not sure if I will buy this one but recording the BBCSO before they leave MV is awesome. If the musical relationships between the players are recreated, all the better.

That is not what they are plugging though. What they are plugging just feels disingenuous.


----------



## redlester

Gerbil said:


> Imagine a Ronaldo sample library. Patches include: 'Keepy-Uppy', 'Chest thump', 'Lube' and 'Peacock'.



People on here would be having massive bust-up's over whether the Messi library was superior.


----------



## EricValette

1.0.4 version of the BBCSO plugin is downloable on the SA app... but no description of the changes for now...


----------



## redlester

James H said:


> Awesome thanks. I used these settings and zero issues. Previously, if I used a few mics I would get some issues.
> Issues be gone!
> 
> Slapped several mics on each instance of this and no pops clops pings or pongs!




I just tried those same settings on mine, and for the full version of Christian's Trois Gnossiennes it plays on my humble 2.3GHz i7 16GB almost without a glitch, just a couple of missing notes on first run through, which were OK at next play though.

At those settings from @haus.media, once fully loaded I get 2.77GB displayed on the plugin, and 9.77GB Memory Used in Activity Monitor.

My biggest issue remains the load times. It took 19 minutes for the project to load (from HDD) before the plugin stopped flashing at me. I will be interested to check this again in a few days when the 4TB SSD that I've ordered arrives.


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

Brasart said:


> Leaders instruments only, mics mix: Mix1, CloseWide, Stereo, Leader
> No additional treatment except a L2 on my master




Nice track Brasart! Not sure the Leader mic is actually available, thought it was only for non-leader patches if I'm not mistaken. (To push up the leader a bit within the section patches). Think you are able to put it on but it probably doesn't do anything to your mix.


----------



## SupremeFist

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> People buy things because it says "Yngwie Malmsteen" or "Cristiano Ronaldo" on them. But there's nothing quantifiably "revolutionary" about that, and most certainly not in a way that would improve your music making.


Actually I have a Billy Corgan signature Stratocaster and it's the best Strat I've ever played.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Hi all, we've just released version 1.0.4 of the BBC SO plugin which you will see available in your app.

This version contains a fix for the plugin using too much RAM on Windows systems. Please contact support if you continue to see issues.

We have a further update planned for later in the week to improve loading times.


----------



## Brasart

Sjoerd Visser said:


> Nice track Brasart! Not sure the Leader mic is actually available, thought it was only for non-leader patches if I'm not mistaken. (To push up the leader a bit within the section patches). Think you are able to put it on but it probably doesn't do anything to your mix.



You're right, but it does produce sound even when used on a Leader instrument, however I've just went and A/B between mics; it seems the Leader mic is using the same signal as the regular Close mic on leader instruments — at least the Celli Spiccato that I've just A/Bed!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Well, I rolled the dice and downloaded BBCSO, despite the possibility of it being a trainwreck on my machine (late 2013 MB Pro 16GB Ram, Apogee Element 24). First thing I did was load up every instrument (one at a time, not multiple tracks) and play through every articulation. I s++t you not, they all played back perfectly....no clicks or pops. And the best part.....they sound absolutely wonderful. The Sul Tasto's gave me major goosebumps! I immediately incorporated many of the instruments into a professional project I'm currently amidst. Also note that the library is hosted on a Samsung T5 connected to USB 3. The longest load time is the String sections, which takes about 20 seconds. Everything else loads in around 10-15 seconds. I'm running Logic X on Mojave. 

If you're on a system such as mine, the most efficient way (so far) to run the library is to have a separate instance for each instrument articulation....and trash every other articulation within the instance; the problem is that the Spitfire player loads up all of the articulations and this chews up Ram very fast. For example, if you just choose the Viloin 2 Con Sordinos, trash everything else. If you want Violin 2 Legato's, load another instance, etc. This method saves a HUGE amount of resources and therefore allows high track counts. I'm currently building a template around this and will post the Ram footprint once completed (and share if anyone's interested). I found that Mix 1 is my favourite (so far).
Also thanks to the forum members that did a few tests for me, especially @SonsofRest and @AndyP

Anyways, not to sound like a "fan boy", but I haven't been this excited about a library in a while. Despite all the criticism, I'm personally loving this. Worth every single penny. I really hope the bugs get ironed out for the Windows users.

@christianhenson there are quite a few typos in the manual (which was an easy read!). Should I send these to support? Not a big deal, but one of my pet peeves!


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

Brasart said:


> You're right, but it does produce sound even when used on a Leader instrument, however I've just went and A/B between mics; it seems the Leader mic is using the same signal as the regular Close mic on leader instruments — at least the Celli Spiccato that I've just A/Bed!



That's interesting. Wonder if that's intentional


----------



## dzilizzi

thereus said:


> I really like Spitfire's products and I don't mind a bit of even shameless promotion, but I am feeling really quite bugged by this "universal starting point" business. It feels like nothing to do with the library or the library's reason for being created and like complete nonsense designed to "disrupt" rather than contribute something new. The two points of the library is surely preservation of the BBCSO/Maida Vale sound when Maida Vale closes and to present an increased sound-palette by using more mics. What a wonderful idea. However, it is not possible to make such a library into what Spitfire are attempting to claim it is. Sooner or later, it will be impossible to record any more sounds to augment it. Why is EWHO not a universal starting point or SSO? Why not spend the money recording a studio percussion module and make that a universal starting point. It's a load of nonsense and will be forgotten as soon as SA have something new to plug. They increasingly seem to walk a strange tight-rope betwee presenting themselves as honest, trustworthy folk offering those lower down the industry a ladder up and on the other hand, seducing them to hand over the cash on the basis of very unreliable concepts. They have every right to say what they like about their products, but marketing bullshit is marketing bullshit. Let's not be scared of calling it what it is.


It is hard to provide training in orchestration and writing if everyone has different products. SSO is great, but it is also very pricey, even at wishlist prices and it doesn't technically have percussion. This allows them to share their actual sessions, which is really great for us users who are getting started and don't understand how to do things like ride the mod wheel. I, for one, really appreciate this one orchestra idea. And it is a starting point. Once you learn how to do this stuff, you can then add other companies' products and use the stuff you learned on BBCSO. 

And, as someone else said, why would they do this with someone else's product? They created Spitfire to make products they want to use. And to finance that making by selling copies of the products they make.


----------



## dzilizzi

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> I feel that EWHO, SSO and the BBCSO could all be used as a starting point. However, for me it is very enticing to have a whole cohesive orchestra in one singular package that can be used as a starting point for most orchestral arrangements and can then be built upon whenever may be needed, however, at the same time EWHO does provide all the sections of an orchestra in a package for a cheaper price which also includes more dynamic layers and more articulations. So the question for me would be what would make the best starting point between the all in one packages that provide all the main sections of an orchestra such as EWHO, BBSO and SSO?


Thinking about the woodwinds issue, I'm not sure I would call EWHO a cohesive orchestra. Pretty much every other orchestral package was recorded separately at sometimes years apart. I could be wrong, of course, I am somewhat new to this type of music. But it seems to be unusual to basically record a sitting orchestra in, well, not one session, but as close to one session as you can get.


----------



## EricValette

SpitfireSupport said:


> Hi all, we've just released version 1.0.4 of the BBC SO plugin which you will see available in your app.
> 
> This version contains a fix for the plugin using too much RAM on Windows systems. Please contact support if you continue to see issues.
> 
> We have a further update planned for later in the week to improve loading times.


At first glance, this seems to finally work for me! The memory consumption seems much more reasonable on my Windows system and no more pops or freeze when playing even with 3 or 4 microphones activated at the same time on ten instances of the plugin playing simultaneously.

I will test later with a larger template but at first glance it's already very encouraging.

Thank you very much guys for this salutary update!


----------



## EricValette

EricValette said:


> At first glance, this seems to finally work for me! The memory consumption seems much more reasonable on my Windows system and no more pops or freeze when playing even with 3 or 4 microphones activated at the same time on ten instances of the plugin playing simultaneously.
> 
> I will test later with a larger template but at first glance it's already very encouraging.
> 
> Thank you very much guys for this salutary update!


I specify that I use the plugin settings posted by haus.media. Big thanks to him!  

Plugin settings: 
Maximum Voices: 768 (Default 512) 
Preload size: 6144 (Default 12288) 
Stream Buffer Size: 8192 (Default 65536)
Maximum Pitch Voices: 12 (Default 8)


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

SupremeFist said:


> Actually I have a Billy Corgan signature Stratocaster and it's the best Strat I've ever played.



The Billy Corgan one of all things.


----------



## bricop

A reworking of an old piece to get to know the library.


----------



## Zedcars




----------



## John R Wilson

dzilizzi said:


> Thinking about the woodwinds issue, I'm not sure I would call EWHO a cohesive orchestra. Pretty much every other orchestral package was recorded separately at sometimes years apart. I could be wrong, of course, I am somewhat new to this type of music. But it seems to be unusual to basically record a sitting orchestra in, well, not one session, but as close to one session as you can get.



I agree, this is were the BBCSO does seem to set itself apart from other libraries like EWHO, I like how cohesive and real the orchestra sounds in some of the demos. I think I am probably going to download the BBCSO now and give it a run through for myself, I had been holding off due to some of the issues I had been reading. However, it seems to me like they are on top of these issues with this latest update and another one due later this week.


----------



## Cormast

Same for me here ! It seems to finally work perfectly ! Big Thank to Spitfire's Team for having handled these issues so quickly 

My specs : Win 10 - Cubase 10 - i7-6700k - 56Go - Buffers 2048

My Plugin settings: 
Maximum Voices: 900 (Default 512) 
Preload size: 20.000 (Default 12288) 
Stream Buffer Size: 150.000 (Default 65536)
Maximum Pitch Voices: 24 (Default 8)


----------



## SonsofRest

Wolfie2112 said:


> Well, I rolled the dice and downloaded BBCSO, despite the possibility of it being a trainwreck on my machine (late 2013 MB Pro 16GB Ram, Apogee Element 24). First thing I did was load up every instrument (one at a time, not multiple tracks) and play through every articulation. I s++t you not, they all played back perfectly....no clicks or pops. And the best part.....they sound absolutely wonderful. The Sul Tasto's gave me major goosebumps! I immediately incorporated many of the instruments into a professional project I'm currently amidst. Also note that the library is hosted on a Samsung T5 connected to USB 3. The longest load time is the String sections, which takes about 20 seconds. Everything else loads in around 10-15 seconds. I'm running Logic X on Mojave.
> 
> If you're on a system such as mine, the most efficient way (so far) to run the library is to have a separate instance for each instrument articulation....and trash every other articulation within the instance; the problem is that the Spitfire player loads up all of the articulations and this chews up Ram very fast. For example, if you just choose the Viloin 2 Con Sordinos, trash everything else. If you want Violin 2 Legato's, load another instance, etc. This method saves a HUGE amount of resources and therefore allows high track counts. I'm currently building a template around this and will post the Ram footprint once completed (and share if anyone's interested). I found that Mix 1 is my favourite (so far).
> Also thanks to the forum members that did a few tests for me, especially @SonsofRest and @AndyP
> 
> Anyways, not to sound like a "fan boy", but I haven't been this excited about a library in a while. Despite all the criticism, I'm personally loving this. Worth every single penny. I really hope the bugs get ironed out for the Windows users.
> 
> @christianhenson there are quite a few typos in the manual (which was an easy read!). Should I send these to support? Not a big deal, but one of my pet peeves!



I’m happy to hear this! I’m also relieved – I was worried that you would download it based solely on my tests/recommendation and then something would go wrong or you would dislike it…I would have felt awful, honestly. I’m SO glad to hear it’s going well.


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> Also, whilst I'm spamming the thread, @redlester found this a few days back on Twitter and I can't begin to explain what a massive boon for BBCSO Logic users this is. I'm surprised it hasn't got more love:
> 
> 
> 
> This Twitter user has spent at least 2 days in the (miserable) articulation map editor to create these for the benefit of everyone else. Would love to see them posted on the Spitfire page.




@Alex Fraser 
This appears to work great with individual instances of the plugin on a track of a non-template project, but trying to use with the CH Hybrid template it doesn't really work. I think it's been pointed out before the key switches in the template are different to those of the default plugin version?


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> @Alex Fraser
> This appears to work great with individual instances of the plugin on a track of a non-template project, but trying to use with the CH Hybrid template it doesn't really work. I think it's been pointed out before the key switches in the template are different to those of the default plugin version?


I think the maps are designed for the default settings, so they should work with the "all-in-ones" etc. Like you say, I believe the CH templates are using customised keyswitch settings in the BBCSO plugin. The maps could be adapted to work with the CH template without any issues. It just depends on having the will to do it.


----------



## I like music

Alex Fraser said:


> It just depends on having the will to do it.



I think you just described 99% of absolutely everything in music.


----------



## Zero&One

SpitfireSupport said:


> Hi all, we've just released version 1.0.4 of the BBC SO plugin which you will see available in your app.
> 
> This version contains a fix for the plugin using too much RAM on Windows systems. Please contact support if you continue to see issues.



So should Mac users update? I'm concerned due to my initial 1.0.0 'experience'
Are there any tweaks to the Mac version?


----------



## redlester

James H said:


> So should Mac users update? I'm concerned due to my initial 1.0.0 'experience'
> Are there any tweaks to the Mac version?



I've updated to 1.0.4 on Mojave, no problems noticed.


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> The maps could be adapted to work with the CH template without any issues. It just depends on having the will to do it.



I was thinking that too. Would you say modify the articulation set and save as an edited version, or change the key switches within the template to match those of the articulation set?

TBH I will leave it for now, don't think I have the will.


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> I was thinking that too. Would you say modify the articulation set and save as an edited version, or change the key switches within the template to match those of the articulation set?
> 
> TBH I will leave it for now, don't think I have the will.


I feel you there..
FWIW, I'd modify/save the maps and keep the plugin settings intact. It would make things more update friendly.


----------



## redlester

Wolfie2112 said:


> If you're on a system such as mine, the most efficient way (so far) to run the library is to have a separate instance for each instrument articulation....and trash every other articulation within the instance; the problem is that the Spitfire player loads up all of the articulations and this chews up Ram very fast. For example, if you just choose the Viloin 2 Con Sordinos, trash everything else. If you want Violin 2 Legato's, load another instance, etc. This method saves a HUGE amount of resources and therefore allows high track counts. I'm currently building a template around this and will post the Ram footprint once completed (and share if anyone's interested).



You may want to hold off on this because I'm sure Mr Henson said that he and JJ were intending to release such a version of their own template. No idea when that will arrive though.
Edit: it's mentioned at about 1'55" in the template video on The Page.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

James H said:


> So should Mac users update? I'm concerned due to my initial 1.0.0 'experience'
> Are there any tweaks to the Mac version?



There are no changes to the Mac version, so no pressing need for you to update. Essentially you would be downloading the plugin again just so that it says "1.0.4" in the corner


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Thanks for the update Spitfire. Christian /Paul , do you mind giving us a Rough road map of the fixes that are coming over the next few weeks -

The important ones like finishing the playable Extended Legato in the instruments you were not able to make it on time ? Particularly some of the WW (Clarinet , Bassoon) and Brass (Trumpet and Trombones!) 

Even though i am a windows user, its been running glitch free so far. Cubase Pro 10 here with i9. 

One smaller thing to note, you mention in your walk-throughs about controlling the timing of releases for the short articulations , however this is not active as default (as opposed to Timed or Un-Timed) . Is this Intentional, or will the plugin eventually be updated with this feature enabled ?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

redlester said:


> You may want to hold off on this because I'm sure Mr Henson said that he and JJ were intending to release such a version of their own template. No idea when that will arrive though.
> Edit: it's mentioned at about 1'55" in the template video on The Page.



Nice! I'll keep an eye out for those.


----------



## muk

Might anybody care to do a quick mockup of this famous phrase for flute? And render it once with Mix 1, and once with only the Decca Tree?






I'd be much obliged. One of the nice things about Spitfire BBC SO seems to be the sense of depth of the room. This would help me to compare it to my current solutions.


----------



## Loïc D

Wolfie2112 said:


> Well, I rolled the dice and downloaded BBCSO, despite the possibility of it being a trainwreck on my machine (late 2013 MB Pro 16GB Ram, Apogee Element 24). First thing I did was load up every instrument (one at a time, not multiple tracks) and play through every articulation. I s++t you not, they all played back perfectly....no clicks or pops. And the best part.....they sound absolutely wonderful.


I'm on exactly the same configuration (save the interface).
Your post alone is selling BBCSO to me !

That said I'm a UACC KS "power user" and it seems that BBCSO works (and is optimized) differently.


----------



## widekeys

muk said:


> Might anybody care to do a quick mockup of this famous phrase for flute? And render it once with Mix 1, and once with only the Decca Tree?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be much obliged. One of the nice things about Spitfire BBC SO seems to be the sense of depth of the room. This would help me to compare it to my current solutions.


I attached the mix1 and the tree. If you download the zip file, you'll get all the other mics (excluding individual spills and atmos mixes since those are not part of my template yet). This is out of the box, all I did was boost the output volume of my daw since it is really quiet.

It is just my interpretation of the phrase, without caring too much about the dynamic layer cross fade point. I tried to be more expressive with nonvib/vib but it is a hard cut between the samples and I thought it sounded better with vib on throughout. This is also not the quietest the flute can go.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

@christianhenson in your tutorial of "A New Chapter" you mentioned you'd post the project file. I'm not so much interested in the actual MIDI data, but the template itself (would like to test it on my system). Is this available? Thanks.


----------



## muk

Fantastic @widekeys. Thanks a lot!


----------



## Saigen

This update made it even worse for me.


----------



## star.keys

SpitfireSupport said:


> Hi all, we've just released version 1.0.4 of the BBC SO plugin which you will see available in your app.
> 
> This version contains a fix for the plugin using too much RAM on Windows systems. Please contact support if you continue to see issues.
> 
> We have a further update planned for later in the week to improve loading times.



Wonderful. With that status, I have now bought BBCSO. It seems from what I read here, this update seems to be working for some Windows 10 users. Awaiting final confirmation from @staypuft before I start downloading. If his PC is still facing issues, I will stay within my right for refund 

Is there a mix template available for Cubase? I hope so, which is another reason I have bought this library.

-----

Ok, I'm editing this gratitude post. From my understanding, BBCSO does not work on many Windows 10 users here, which is a shame.

Additionally, they have not responded to my question above, seeking confirmation of availability of mix template for Cubase, which probably suggests that there aren't committing to support Cubase users. So, my impression is that this product seems to have been designed primarily for Mac users using Logic. I don't know which PCs in the world do they have have and what kind of testing have they done. Why no Cubase template. I'd be extremely scared to invest in BBCSO since I'm on Windows 10/Cubase platform.

Refund requested.


----------



## Uiroo

This "revolution of sampling" thing is still bugging me, though. 
I just don't see it. Fine, they may have done it better than ever, recorded the BBCSO, added the spill mices. Sounds like an advancement and not like a revolution to me. 

And that will inevitably cause me to go "yeah yeah, sure" the next time they'll talk about something new. That effect is even worse if you actually like the company.


----------



## Paul Cardon

Saigen said:


> This update made it even worse for me.


I don't mean this to be rude, but do you really only have 3GB of RAM?


----------



## Simeon

Just installed the 1.04 update here and can see some improvement in the memory allocation using a test project. Thanks to Spitfire for their support and looking forward to things continuing to improve!

Grateful to have found this forum and seeing some familiar faces.


----------



## jbuhler

Uiroo said:


> This "revolution of sampling" thing is still bugging me, though.
> I just don't see it. Fine, they may have done it better than ever, recorded the BBCSO, added the spill mices. Sounds like an advancement and not like a revolution to me.
> 
> And that will inevitably cause me to go "yeah yeah, sure" the next time they'll talk about something new. That effect is even worse if you actually like the company.


any "revolution" would come from the library's ubiquity—the adoption of it as the standard tool—not from advances in the technology itself. It's too early to say whether it is something more than another (useful) library. I have sincere doubts that it will be, but that doesn't diminish its status as a library that is unusually easy to work with. (That's my impression in any case. I don't (yet) own it.)


----------



## Saigen

Paul Cardon said:


> I don't mean this to be rude, but do you really only have 3GB of RAM? That might be part of your issue.


I'm on a 32gb RAM windows 10 system, sir.
Not only 3GB RAM, that'd make me an idiot complaining here about it.


----------



## Simeon

christianhenson said:


> It’s all fixed... we’ll be issuing a statement about it once all tests are done. Check out my Satie YouTube vid I’m making a Cubase version of the track this weekend for you to download.




Did anyone catch @christianhenson say at around 00:00:57 in his video;
"...I'm going to load up a piano which you don't get with the BBC SO...YET"?


----------



## Zero&One

I watched one of Paul Thompson's videos today, it gave me inspiration. Cracked open some beers and made this.
Spolier: there's no pause scene


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Simeon said:


> Did anyone catch @christianhenson say at around 00:00:57 in his video;
> "...I'm going to load up a piano which you don't get with the BBC SO...YET"?



As he mentions, it's the Soft Piano available (free) as part of the LABS collection.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

star.keys said:


> Wonderful. With that status, I have now bought BBCSO. It seems from what I read here, this update seems to be working for some Windows 10 users. Awaiting final confirmation from @staypuft before I start downloading. If his PC is still facing issues, I will stay within my right for refund



You're going to base your purchase purely on one user's experience? You have an absolute identical PC?


----------



## star.keys

Wolfie2112 said:


> You're going to base your purchase purely on one user's experience? You have an absolute identical PC?


Yes. Lesson learnt from past. It it works for good sample of users, there would be better chance that it might work for me. I've got i9 7900x with 64GB RAM, some 4 x 2TB SSDs etc. Windows 10 problem has been mainly associated with latest multi-core CPUs and also a lot to do with some motherboards with dodgy drivers etc. DAWs such as Cubase and Pro Tools have struggled in the past (CPU throttling etc). I know where it usually goes wrong and if some i9 users have reported success (could be similar, if not identical config), good chance that it will work for me. additionally, Spitfire's sampler has had its own issues in the past so that adds to the complexity. Hence I am always desperate for some user testimonials before I purchase.


----------



## Living Fossil

Uiroo said:


> This "revolution of sampling" thing is still bugging me, though.
> ...
> And that will inevitably cause me to go "yeah yeah, sure" the next time they'll talk about something new. That effect is even worse if you actually like the company.



First of all:
I think BBCSO is a huge step when it comes to the out-of-the-box homogeneity of mockups.
I don't know how drastic the limitations are when it comes to music that's more out of this libraries comfort zone, since haven't bought it yet (no hurry), but some users' demoes are really impressive.

Second:
Yes, Spitfire's marketing methods really upset me.
I'm working with music software since the late 80ies and always liked that in opposition to the commercial world of big companies there was always some kind of mutual confidence.
Every software developer, everyone who creates sample libraries or softsynths etc. is proud of their product.
And everybody wants to sell their stuff.
But almost all companies in this small segment keep their marketing realistic.
I remember when (about 2 years ago their was a question about how deep the viola da gamba in Fluffy Audio's "Rinascimento" is sampled, and the producer [!] of the library himself chimed in and stated that for a more distinct writing the possible user should maybe keep an eye on different libraries.
That was honest and this honesty creates trust and the sense of sitting in the same boat.

Maybe these nerdy-days, where developers and their customers discuss as if they were friends come to an end and neoliberal profit-over-everything-else thinking enters this segment.
It's a pity, and it's somehow off-putting a bit that Spitfire uses this strategies.
They are enthusiastic and they make great libraries (happy owner).

But leave away that terrible marketing methods that the commercial giants (like Nike, Apple for some years etc) apply!!
And please, please: no NLP methods. They are simply disreputable.
If i produce a special running shoe and add a free book called "Can everybody win a marathon?" than no single court on this planet or in any parallel-universe in this timeline could sue me for pretending that this shoes makes you a winner.
However, it would trick lots of young athletes, specially those with some unrealistic ambitions, exactly into thinking this.
That's why NLP is such an enormous factor in politics and advertising. It has the power to manipulate those who are slightly delusional or unsure. (and to adapt a statement by @synkrotron : the stink of delusion is strong here lately)

And sorry for being very clear: the market for musicians and their tools is quite small. Can't we keep it NLP-free?
Call the book "20 tips how to improve your running skills" or similar.

And for the marketing of BBCSO: No problem, if you advertise it with "unprecedented homogeneity straight out of the box". That's cool. But keep it on non manipulative grounds. Since it's good, lots of people will buy it anyhow, and the sense of a community of developers and their consumers is not destroyed.


----------



## VinRice

@Living Fossil I'm sorry but that's just so much over-sensitive horse-shit. We cannot abrogate our own individual responsibility to make informed decisions. If we make a mistake, we learn a lesson - it's called growing up.

You are also assuming that people don't want to be sold to or that they do not enjoy their delusions. Incorrect in my experience.

Delusions and making mistakes are an evolutionary imperative no?


----------



## Living Fossil

VinRice said:


> @Living Fossil I'm sorry but that's just so much over-sensitive horse-shit. We cannot abrogate our own individual responsibility to make informed decisions. If we make a mistake, we learn a lesson - it's called growing up.
> 
> You are also assuming that people don't want to be sold to or that they do not enjoy their delusions. Incorrect in my experience.
> 
> Delusions and making mistakes are an evolutionary imperative no?



@VinRice : i don't even disagree with anything you write.
Nevertheless these marketing methods bother me a lot.
And obviously i'm not the only one who is bothered.
I hope it's ok for you if people might be bothered also if you feel differently.


----------



## ism

Living Fossil said:


> First of all:
> I think BBCSO is a huge step when it comes to the out-of-the-box homogeneity of mockups.
> I don't know how drastic the limitations are when it comes to music that's more out of this libraries comfort zone, since haven't bought it yet (no hurry), but some users' demoes are really impressive.
> 
> Second:
> Yes, Spitfire's marketing methods really upset me.
> I'm working with music software since the late 80ies and always liked that in opposition to the commercial world of big companies there was always some kind of mutual confidence.
> Every software developer, everyone who creates sample libraries or softsynths etc. is proud of their product.
> And everybody wants to sell their stuff.
> But almost all companies in this small segment keep their marketing realistic.
> I remember when (about 2 years ago their was a question about how deep the viola da gamba in Fluffy Audio's "Rinascimento" is sampled, and the producer [!] of the library himself chimed in and stated that for a more distinct writing the possible user should maybe keep an eye on different libraries.
> That was honest and this honesty creates trust and the sense of sitting in the same boat.
> 
> Maybe these nerdy-days, where developers and their customers discuss as if they were friends come to an end and neoliberal profit-over-everything-else thinking enters this segment.
> It's a pity, and it's somehow off-putting a bit that Spitfire uses this strategies.
> They are enthusiastic and they make great libraries (happy owner).
> 
> But leave away that terrible marketing methods that the commercial giants (like Nike, Apple for some years etc) apply!!
> And please, please: no NLP methods. They are simply disreputable.
> If i produce a special running shoe and add a free book called "Can everybody win a marathon?" than no single court on this planet or in any parallel-universe in this timeline could sue me for pretending that this shoes makes you a winner.
> However, it would trick lots of young athletes, specially those with some unrealistic ambitions, exactly into thinking this.
> That's why NLP is such an enormous factor in politics and advertising. It has the power to manipulate those who are slightly delusional or unsure. (and to adapt a statement by @synkrotron : the stink of delusion is strong here lately)
> 
> And sorry for being very clear: the market for musicians and their tools is quite small. Can't we keep it NLP-free?
> Call the book "20 tips how to improve your running skills" or similar.
> 
> And for the marketing of BBCSO: No problem, if you advertise it with "unprecedented homogeneity straight out of the box". That's cool. But keep it on non manipulative grounds. Since it's good, lots of people will buy it anyhow, and the sense of a community of developers and their consumers is not destroyed.


What is NLP is this context?


----------



## cqd

I'm in agreement with the living fossil here, but, like really, the whole targeted psychology thing is so prevalent everywhere at this stage can you really blame the spitfire lads..
Like, when it's contrasted with more honest marketing, I dunno does it work in the long run..
And Christian's videos are good at times, even if I do want to slap him and tell him to stop waving his hands around so much..


----------



## erikradbo

ism said:


> What is NLP is this context?


I'm assuming neuro-lingustic programming, and I agree with this. I am responsible for my actions and choices but I'd still choose a world where I wouldn't have to use a lot of my cognitive capacities to filter messages my brain wasn't really programmed to handle that well in the first place (because my brain is a junkie).


----------



## Brasart

cqd said:


> I'm in agreement with the living fossil here, but, like really, the whole targeted psychology thing is so prevalent everywhere at this stage can you really blame the spitfire lads..
> Like, when it's contrasted with more honest marketing, I dunno does it work in the long run..
> And Christian's videos are good at times, *even if I do want to slap him and tell him to stop waving his hands around so much..*



I don't know if others posters are just accustomed to your behavior or if most have put you on their ignore list, but it has been very painful to read through your posts in this thread and you really need to start taking a step back and thinking about respect and how to interact with other human beings -- absolute negativity, edginess & disrespect doesn't make you look cool nor relevant.

I wish computers were sold with a guide for boomers on how to behave on the internet, it's disheartening to read some people.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, you're probably right..

It was a joke, obviously too though..


----------



## Jett Hitt

Simeon said:


> Did anyone catch @christianhenson say at around 00:00:57 in his video;
> "...I'm going to load up a piano which you don't get with the BBC SO...YET"?


Hmmmm. . . .”yet” . . . . That’s pretty intriguing. My no. 1 complaint is the lack of a piano. But then he says something about a Labs soft piano. Not sure what to make of this, but it sounds promising.


----------



## Loïc D

Yes, there's probably an aggressive marketing strategy at Spitfire.

But also, can we seriously consider that those people, Christian & Paul first, deeply involved in every aspect of this growing company, collaborating with bigger & bigger names in the industry, starting from barely nothing, would then sell their products with a lukewarm message.

Like, "we spent 2 years sampling BBC at Maida Vale, it costed us an eye and a sh*tload of worked hours, and maybe you'd be vaguely interested in this product. Only if you're not too rude with us. Oh BTW we created a dedicated player too."

Also, I was thinking that maybe the limit in (some) dynamic layers come from not only a financial balance, but a technical limitations with the new player in its actual version.

Besides, SA is no exception in the industry. 
How many plugin developers sell their updates / revamped plugins / "name dropping" plugins as "revolutionary tool" ? (looking at you W***s)
Some are indeed good, some not, some just useless.
Every week I've got tens of them in my mailbox but that's the game in the industry. 
I don't get grumpy or pissed every time I get one. I just take it with a pile of salt.
And buy the ones I'll sure use.

Why being bitter at people just doing their job at creating product the best they can ?
Those companies don't kill baby seals, sell weapons to ISIS, or lumber Amazonia, right ?


----------



## Loïc D

hittjett said:


> Hmmmm. . . .”yet” . . . . That’s pretty intriguing. My no. 1 complaint is the lack of a piano. But then he says something about a Labs soft piano. Not sure what to make of this, but it sounds promising.


IIRC, in one of his vlogs, Christian mentioned a piano library he's creating.
Kind of LABS Soft Piano on steroids.


----------



## 5Lives

Some people just aren’t fans of capitalism it seems...

Looks like Spitfire is cranking out the fixes and updates. I’ll wait for Black Friday / Christmas to see how much has improved - price will be the same as pre-order according to their site.


----------



## bricop

TGV said:


> I said Transformer, but that's the old fashioned way. I'm using a "Modifier" nowadays, which you can insert as a MIDI effect before the plugin. If you set it as in the attached image, it copies the modwheel (CC1) to expression (CC11); you can e.g. add 25% by setting the scale slider to 125%. Save it as a preset for quick recall.





TGV said:


> I said Transformer, but that's the old fashioned way. I'm using a "Modifier" nowadays, which you can insert as a MIDI effect before the plugin. If you set it as in the attached image, it copies the modwheel (CC1) to expression (CC11); you can e.g. add 25% by setting the scale slider to 125%. Save it as a preset for quick recall.



Thank you very much. I was dreading the thought of revisiting the logic environment after many years away!! This midi effect works brilliantly!!


----------



## Noeticus

James H said:


> I watched one of Paul Thompson's videos today, it gave me inspiration. Cracked open some beers and made this.
> Spolier: there's no pause scene




This is very, very impressive!!!


----------



## Zero&One

Noeticus said:


> This is very, very impressive!!!



Thanks man! Was really fun making it.
I also noticed she smokes that cigarette really fast!!


----------



## redlester

Some of my favourite comments on marketing, from the late great Bill Hicks.


----------



## Javier Gonzalez

I think the plugin has issues in Windows (10 pro, x64) because all instances are using a single CPU core rather than being distributed among all of them.
This is a screenshot of my CPU usage (studio one 4) after playing a section, which means that when I load multiple mics I get lots of dropouts :(


----------



## Saigen

Javier Gonzalez said:


> I think the plugin has issues in Windows (10 pro, x64) because all instances are using a single CPU core rather than being distributed among all of them.
> This is a screenshot of my CPU usage (studio one 4) after playing a section, which means that when I load multiple mics I get lots of dropouts :(


Glad to see I'm not the only one with this issue. Thank you for this confirmation sir.
I'm on a 32gb RAM setup running Windows 10 as well. And 2,7gb RAM is my limit for some apparent reason I'm unaware of. This is even after updating to the deployed 1.0.4 patch that claims to have the fix we all needed.

This is with BBCSO:






This is with a normal Kontakt-based template:


----------



## Javier Gonzalez

That's weird, on Studio one it seems to be able to use all RAM ok (although it seems to use way more memory than it says on the plugin). Maybe different DAWs have different issues? Although to me it sounds like you are using the 32bit VST rather than the 64bit VST by accident.


----------



## CT

James H said:


> Thanks man! Was really fun making it.
> I also noticed she smokes that cigarette really fast!!



There's a cigarette? There's something other than her legs?


----------



## Bluemount Score

FL Studio Windows user here, using BBCSO 1.0.4.
Mix 1 mics only + all instruments + all articulations = 23GB RAM (just upgraded my PC from 16 to 32).

Can't tell if it's better after the latest update as this is the first I went "all in" with the instances.


----------



## AEF

Does turning off all the mic signals essentially “purge” the player?


----------



## mistermister

Saigen said:


> And 2,7gb RAM is my limit for some apparent reason I'm unaware of. This is even after updating to the deployed 1.0.4 patch that claims to have the fix we all needed.


It might well be that you're experiencing a different issue. I don't think anyone in this thread so far has said that they've had a problem with memory where they're limited to 2.7gb RAM? Have you contacted Spitfire about the issue?

Are you sure that Cubase is hosting the 64bit version of the plugin (I don't use Cubase so not sure if it does bit bridging similar to Bitwig, Reaper, etc.). ~3gb is around the RAM limit of old 32 bit processes which is what made me suspect maybe it's running in the plugin in 32bit mode than than 64bit.



Javier Gonzalez said:


> Although to me it sounds like you are using the 32bit VST rather than the 64bit VST by accident.


I had the same thought!



AEF said:


> Does turning off all the mic signals essentially “purge” the player?


It doesn't unfortunately. I see RAM still being used when I purge all mics.


----------



## barteredbride

SPITFIRE ANNOUNCE SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE !!!


(joke)


----------



## Fleer

You cheeky devil you.


----------



## Saigen

Javier Gonzalez said:


> That's weird, on Studio one it seems to be able to use all RAM ok (although it seems to use way more memory than it says on the plugin). Maybe different DAWs have different issues? Although to me it sounds like you are using the 32bit VST rather than the 64bit VST by accident.





mistermister said:


> It might well be that you're experiencing a different issue. I don't think anyone in this thread so far has said that they've had a problem with memory where they're limited to 2.7gb RAM? Have you contacted Spitfire about the issue?
> 
> Are you sure that Cubase is hosting the 64bit version of the plugin (I don't use Cubase so not sure if it does bit bridging similar to Bitwig, Reaper, etc.). ~3gb is around the RAM limit of old 32 bit processes which is what made me suspect maybe it's running in the plugin in 32bit mode than than 64bit.



Fortunately or unfortunate as things may be, Cubase 9.5 doesn't allow for 32bit plugins. So I am on the 64bit version whether I like it or not :/


----------



## Geoff Grace

Sonic LAB has a look with Ty Unwin:



Best,

Geoff


----------



## whiskers

wow...(not me):


----------



## Grilled Cheese

One of the ads I keep seeing for BBCSO says “BBC Symphony Orchestra is the definitive orchestral sample library of epic proportions, offering control like no other.”

What kind of “control“ does this refer to, and how is it like no other? (Genuine question).


----------



## MaxOctane

chrispire said:


> What kind of “control“ does this refer to, and how is it like no other? (Genuine question).



The number and variety of mics, consistent across all instruments.


----------



## Banquet

Can I just inject a noob question into the proceedings. I am watching Christian Henson's 'Can Anyone Create Orchestal Music?' video using BBCSO (link: )

Christian talks about orchestral voicing as opposed to 'chord' voicing and splits the piano notes into parts for the basses, celli, viola and violins. As each note we play on a keyboard is (say) 6 violinists, if we play a 3 note chord, we're getting 18 violinists, which is bigger than the intended size of the library. So, is it generally the done thing to play each part monophonically, and, if so, when do use use legatos and when do we use longs? 

Also, is it safe to assume the shorts are divisi and split so when you play chords you get the correct amount of players?


----------



## Bluemount Score

AEF said:


> Does turning off all the mic signals essentially “purge” the player?


It lowers the RAM, but most is still being used. It isn't comparable to e.g. the "purge" function from Kontakt. Even if you clear all mics and all articulations, BBCSO is still a pretty hungry plugin.
The first instance takes by far the most RAM, though.


----------



## widekeys

Banquet said:


> Can I just inject a noob question into the proceedings. I am watching Christian Henson's 'Can Anyone Create Orchestal Music?' video using BBCSO (link: )
> 
> Christian talks about orchestral voicing as opposed to 'chord' voicing and splits the piano notes into parts for the basses, celli, viola and violins. As each note we play on a keyboard is (say) 6 violinists, if we play a 3 note chord, we're getting 18 violinists, which is bigger than the intended size of the library. So, is it generally the done thing to play each part monophonically, and, if so, when do use use legatos and when do we use longs?
> 
> Also, is it safe to assume the shorts are divisi and split so when you play chords you get the correct amount of players?



The BBCSO strings are not recorded "divisi", the players are not split amongst the played notes in any of the recorded articulations. However, keep in mind that string players are able to produce multiple notes at the same time in one bow stroke using double, triple or quadruple stops (well, quadruple stops do sound more like an arpeggio and triple stops can only be played from mf-f dynamics if they should not arpeggiate). So in fact playing 2 notes on one shorts or long patch is not unrealistic per se. You'd have to watch fingering and string selection though and fast tempo lines in constantly changing double stops is more solo-concerto level than ensemble difficulty. So when do you decide to use double stops and are able to justify playing two notes? When you feel like the music calls for it. Maybe the climax of your composition or a shimmery 4-part harmony on top of the strings range.

When to use longs and when legato, there is no specific rule. The question is, do you need two notes to be audible connected to each other via ("one-bow") slurred legato or portamento? The answer may be yes if you present the melody in the strings and want to take care of detailed phrasing or if you want a general more connected feel to background parts. Keep in mind that endless bars of ongoing slurred legato are not realistic, insert a small gap here and there to simulate a bow change.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Banquet said:


> Christian talks about orchestral voicing as opposed to 'chord' voicing and splits the piano notes into parts for the basses, celli, viola and violins. As each note we play on a keyboard is (say) 6 violinists, if we play a 3 note chord, we're getting 18 violinists, which is bigger than the intended size of the library. So, is it generally the done thing to play each part monophonically, and, if so, when do use use legatos and when do we use longs?
> 
> Also, is it safe to assume the shorts are divisi and split so when you play chords you get the correct amount of players?


The setup of BBCSO, as a standard symphonic orchestra, is
16 Violins I
14 Violins II
12 Violas
10 Celli
8 Basses

When playing a chord (3 keys), a common apporach would be to let the first violins play the first note, second violins the second and violas the third. Celli play the bass line, which is simple doubled by the basses an octave lower. This of course is just a very basic way, but often just enough.
I generally only play one note per section at once, no matter what it is, long or short. Monophonically, as you say. The long, polyphonic patches are always great for quick sketching. With Divisi sections, there would be much more flexibility. But unfortunately, this is still a pretty rare thing in sample libraries.


----------



## widekeys

Bluemount Score said:


> With Divisi sections, there would be much more flexibility. But unfortunately, this is still a pretty rare thing in sample libraries.


This bugs me the most about string libraries. Audiobro LASS is the only one I know that does properly 3-part divisi and that's the reason I use it constantly. The NI-Symphony Series does 2-part and guess what - audiobro helped develop it.


----------



## Hadrondrift

Banquet said:


> is it safe to assume the shorts are divisi


Nope, BBCSO doesn't have auto divisi, as many (or most) other libraries do not. For me, this wouldn't be a deal breaker.

The lack of auto divisi in ensemble strings of a library is always a weak CON for me. I think that a doubled patch of, say, 16 violins doesn't really sound like 32 violins in the mix. You can't reduce it to a pure mathematical problem, it's more of a perception problem. The more instruments are in a patch, the less distinctly audible is their doubling, I would argue. A doubled clarinet sounds like two clarinets. 2 * 1 = 2, but a doubled 16 violin patch does not really sound like 32 violins. 2 * 16 < 32.

Auto divisi may be more important for choirs, not so much for string libraries. My personal opinion, and of course auto divisi is great when it's there, no question.


----------



## I like music

widekeys said:


> This bugs me the most about string libraries. Audiobro LASS is the only one I know that does properly 3-part divisi and that's the reason I use it constantly. The NI-Symphony Series does 2-part and guess what - audiobro helped develop it.



3-way divisi?!?! Don't say things like that. I don't need more libraries.


----------



## widekeys

I like music said:


> 3-way divisi?!?! Don't say things like that. I don't need more libraries.


Oh boy do I love it: (short divisi legato test of mine)
It is really a stripped down library in terms of articulations (legato, trill, tremolo, spicc, stacc, pizz. Occasionaly harmonics and bartok pizz) and mic selection (spoiler: it has none). But in return you get a well balanced sound on lush orchestrated chords, even in close voicings. Across all the major articulations! I'm awaiting LASS 3, hopefully with more articulations!


----------



## I like music

widekeys said:


> Oh boy do I love it: (short divisi legato test of mine)
> It is really a stripped down library in terms of articulations (legato, trill, tremolo, spicc, stacc, pizz. Occasionaly harmonics and bartok pizz) and mic selection (spoiler: it has none). But in return you get a well balanced sound on lush orchestrated chords, even in close voicings. Across all the major articulations! I'm awaiting LASS 3, hopefully with more articulations!



Wow! That sounds wonderful (nice work). Also, it sounds _right_. Maybe one day (just upgraded to Dominus yesterday, so cash is low)


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

Bluemount Score said:


> With Divisi sections, there would be much more flexibility. But unfortunately, this is still a pretty rare thing in sample libraries.


For sure, though you can fake divisi quite efficiently using softer, less present articulations like Flautando or Sul Tasto. If you also mix in the leader mic, gives you the impression of a much smaller section. You won't have the same results as with proper divisi but that's a simple trick to get closer.


----------



## Cormast

Hi there !

5 legato patches played at the same time, with one mic position. One processor seems to do all the work. Get some pops again finally. The library is hugely more usable than before the last update for me but still get some troubles. I push up the plugin specs to try compensate but no big improvements. Just use more memory.

Plugin specs : preload size = 30.000 / Stream buffer size = 1.000.000


----------



## Noeticus

widekeys said:


> Oh boy do I love it: (short divisi legato test of mine)
> It is really a stripped down library in terms of articulations (legato, trill, tremolo, spicc, stacc, pizz. Occasionaly harmonics and bartok pizz) and mic selection (spoiler: it has none). But in return you get a well balanced sound on lush orchestrated chords, even in close voicings. Across all the major articulations! I'm awaiting LASS 3, hopefully with more articulations!



It is possible that LASS 3 will be called "Modern Scoring Strings", but maybe not.


----------



## mistermister

Saigen said:


> Fortunately or unfortunate as things may be, Cubase 9.5 doesn't allow for 32bit plugins. So I am on the 64bit version whether I like it or not :/


Might be best to contact Spitfire support then. As far as I know, no one here has mentioned this same problem so I would assume the memory bug they released yesterday was not intended to fix this. They might have a better idea of what to try.


----------



## Alex Fraser

If it helps anyone with limited SSD storage..
I chatted to Spitfire support this morning regarding removing mic/signal sample data.

My hairbrained scheme to download each of the four sections individually - removing signal sample data before downloading the next section - was given the nod by support. I was told such a method wouldn't cause any issues with installation or plugin updates, with the caveat that updates might add more sample data (that can be subsequently removed.)

If it helps someone, excellent. Those support folk are great on the chat.
A


----------



## porrasm

I just updated the plugin and it seems to be a major improvement over the 1.0.3 version in terms of load times. The RAM loading bug is still there it seems but at least it doesn't prevent me from loading instruments into RAM anymore so I can get composing far quicker.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Simeon said:


> Did anyone catch @christianhenson say at around 00:00:57 in his video;
> "...I'm going to load up a piano which you don't get with the BBC SO...YET"?


Yep, and "BBCSO Piano" clearly listed as a track.
Unless of course it's a subtle troll..


----------



## christianhenson

Naughty naughty naughty.


----------



## Zero&One

When good project hygiene bites you in the ass!


----------



## brenneisen

so we have bass flute and piano confirmed as future additions


----------



## Alex Fraser

James H said:


> When good project hygiene bites you in the ass!


Are we back to sleuthing again? I’m feeling all nostalgic for the early days of the thread!


----------



## Benjamin Duk

@christianhenson @paulthomson So I've been noticing massive real-time spikes in Cubase Pro 10. 

I've got about 8 active BBCSO plugin tracks, and when I am selecting an instrument track with record enabled I get these massive spikes that cause pops. This makes it hugely difficult to play an instrument alongside other tracks that are playing.

I then also loaded a full Kontakt project with way more tracks active, probably 50+ and though there are some peaks, it does not cause pops and spike out nearly as often.

Something is definitely up with the BBCSO plugin. It seems very CPU hungry.

I'm running an AMD 3700X (8 core, 16 thread) CPU, 64GB 3600mhz ram, samples off an SSD.

Any thoughts?


----------



## PerryD

The "One Orchestra" concept is very cool. I suspect a lot of people here will use BBCSO _with_ their favorite libraries. This work in progress uses mostly BBCSO along with CSB, Pianoteq and SM flugelhorn for the solo. Lots left to do in this track but things seem to blend well.


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> If it helps anyone with limited SSD storage..
> I chatted to Spitfire support this morning regarding removing mic/signal sample data.
> 
> My hairbrained scheme to download each of the four sections individually - removing signal sample data before downloading the next section - was given the nod by support. I was told such a method wouldn't cause any issues with installation or plugin updates, with the caveat that updates might add more sample data (that can be subsequently removed.)
> 
> If it helps someone, excellent. Those support folk are great on the chat.
> A



Useful to know, but am just awaiting delivery of a 4TB SSD. I couldn't hold out any longer.


----------



## synkrotron

Four Freakin Terra Bites!


----------



## synkrotron

Okay, let me rephrase that

Four Freakin Terra Bites!!!


----------



## gussunkri

redlester said:


> Useful to know, but am just awaiting delivery of a 4TB SSD. I couldn't hold out any longer.


Show off!


----------



## Bluemount Score

brenneisen said:


> so we have bass flute and piano confirmed as future additions


Alto Flute and Choir is next  And some BBC Recorders! Oh yeah!! (i hope)


----------



## Joel Ewers

Well, I sure love the sound of this orchestra! Mix 2 is actually my favorite so far. The full spills add a wonderful depth, but they absolutely eviscerate my system when I add too much. 

The plugin is definitely a resource hog, but that SOUND...ahh. That's what I'm after. Many more positives than negatives right now, as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Benjamin Duk said:


> @christianhenson @paulthomson So I've been noticing massive real-time spikes in Cubase Pro 10.
> 
> I've got about 8 active BBCSO plugin tracks, and when I am selecting an instrument track with record enabled I get these massive spikes that cause pops. This makes it hugely difficult to play an instrument alongside other tracks that are playing.
> 
> I then also loaded a full Kontakt project with way more tracks active, probably 50+ and though there are some peaks, it does not cause pops and spike out nearly as often.
> 
> Something is definitely up with the BBCSO plugin. It seems very CPU hungry.
> 
> I'm running an AMD 3700X (8 core, 16 thread) CPU, 64GB 3600mhz ram, samples off an SSD.
> 
> Any thoughts?



Ok so after some additional testing I set all the settings back to default in the plugin. It seems like the Preload Size is the biggest culprit for the pops/crackling. So I set this back to default and seems to help.

Still a very resource hungry plugin though :(


----------



## Noeticus

I want as many ARTICULATIONS as possible... because I love them!

So.... Here is a link to a video demo by Guy Bacos using VSL "Vienna Solo Strings" demonstrating lots of Violin Articulations. (...also can anyone do a mock-up like this with the BBCSO?)


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> Useful to know, but am just awaiting delivery of a 4TB SSD. I couldn't hold out any longer.


----------



## Zedcars

I do actually need a piano for a BBCSO track I’m working on, and if it could have the Maida Vale Studios room baked in then so much the better.

However, I don’t know what I’m going to do about my Pin-Barrel Harp track...is this in your product pipeline Christian?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Benjamin Duk said:


> Ok so after some additional testing I set all the settings back to default in the plugin. It seems like the Preload Size is the biggest culprit for the pops/crackling. So I set this back to default and seems to help.
> 
> Still a very resource hungry plugin though :(



Try trashing all of the articulations you aren’t using. This saves me a TON of resources.


----------



## brenneisen

Bluemount Score said:


> Alto Flute



yeah! alto, not bass, that's what I meant; that bigger flute from the deleted instagram post


----------



## Bluemount Score

brenneisen said:


> yeah! alto, not bass, that's what I meant; that bigger flute from the deleted instagram post


I think that in fact it was a bass flute (I didn't see the post, only heard people talk about it). It's just that I love the Alto Flute sound and would prefer it over bass, personally.


----------



## Loïc D

And Alps horn
And Octabass
And above all : sliding whistle


----------



## chemie262

I did a test based on the Cubase template and a Win10 Computer. After I loaded the template and activated vln1 with all articulations but no microphone I saw a RAM consumption of 2 GB but only 142 MB in the BBC.
Strange enough I had an increase of 200 MB, when I deactivated all articulations but the legato. This is not logic at all.The BBC instead reduced to 58 MB, which makes sense.
Every additional microphone needs about 200 MB in the task manager and about 160 MB in BBC.



Task ManagerBBCTemplate, vln1 activated, all articulations, no microphone2000 MB142 MBTemplate, vln1 activated, only legato, no microphone2200 MB58 MBTemplate, vln1 activated, only legato, 1 microphone2300 MB211 MBTemplate, vln1 activated, only legato, 2 microphones2500 MB362 MBTemplate, vln1 activated, only legato, 3 microphones2700 MB518 MB


----------



## Joel Ewers

As long as we're requesting instruments, I'll say...harpsichord, hurdy gurdy, and Native American flute.


----------



## Zedcars

Yaybahar please... 




Yaybahar is an electric-free, totally acoustic instrument designed by Gorkem Sen. The vibrations from the strings are transmitted via the coiled springs to the frame drums. These vibrations are turned into sound by the membranes which echo back and forth on the coiled springs. This results in an unique listening experience with an hypnotic surround sound.

*What you hear in this performance is captured in realtime with no additional effects and no post audio processing.*


----------



## gussunkri

What the heck, as long as we are generously suggesting material for free updates, I'll take an Eb Clarinet for my Shostakovich mockups!


----------



## 5Lives

Has anybody ”translated” any of the MIDI examples on The Page to their own templates (if you don’t own BBCSO yet)? Thinking of trying that with my CSS / CSB / BWW / CinePerc template.


----------



## CT

Starting to hit some snags as I get more greedy with mic positions. I'm not sure if it's my system choking or the plugin though, because monitoring my RAM and CPU doesn't show any strain higher than I've dealt with before, but I'm getting dropped voices galore. Something to do with the voice count settings?


----------



## gussunkri

5Lives said:


> Has anybody ”translated” any of the MIDI examples on The Page to their own templates (if you don’t own BBCSO yet)? Thinking of trying that with my CSS / CSB / BWW / CinePerc template.


I am slowly doing that for Spitfire Studio Orchestra (augmented with the BHCT). I would like to retain as much of Christian's expression as possible, but because the library is different it is probably unavoidable that I have to go in and tweak the CC information.


----------



## Joel Ewers

miket said:


> Starting to hit some snags as I get more greedy with mic positions. I'm not sure if it's my system choking or the plugin though, because monitoring my RAM and CPU doesn't show any strain higher than I've dealt with before, but I'm getting dropped voices galore. Something to do with the voice count settings?



That's been my experience lately, too. Granted my CPU (i7 8809G) probably isn't ideal for heavy VST use, but I also haven't noticed any abnormal spikes in CPU or RAM. Just a lot of stuttering and dropped notes. For now I'll be limiting myself to the JJ mixes, but that's kinda like eating a steak without butter.


----------



## CT

The mixes seem incredibly useful. The only other combination I see myself using a lot of is the tree/mids. I really love how those work together, even on the strings where the mids are more like another type of spill mic.


----------



## Noeticus

Have you guys and gals seen this midi controller? It's Impressive.









Where to Buy: Europe — Leap Motion Developer


Get started developing with our technology today – use the standalone Leap Motion Controller or add a VR Developer Mount for hands in VR.




www.leapmotion.com


----------



## CT

I promise I'm done fooling around with this now. Back to my own music, or at least recreating other pieces.

This time it's all Tree/Mids (including the ladies of the Eric Whitacre Choir), except for the trumpet which is Mix 2 plus some reverb, and the piano (Piano in Blue x3 via pitch-shift/transposition, surround microphones). Besides that, this is "out of the box." Nothing else added.

I originally did this performance with everything on Mix 1, so it wasn't as naturally balanced as it should have been when I switched the mic positions. I just reduced everything but the strings by 6db to get an approximation.

Those rushing violins are still the weakest part, but that's on me more than it is BBCSO... although I don't know how many libraries could do that convincingly even in the best hands.




Hmm, it sounds like the tubular bell cluster on the first crash drops out. I really hope whatever causes that gets sorted, because it does seem to be something amiss with the plugin itself, or at least my settings.


----------



## donnyluvd2bowl

Hey! Can anyone tell me if the multi-tongue patches sync to your daw tempo or if they're just phrases


----------



## Saigen

While experimenting with this frustration on Windows 10,
I noticed that the Violin I Tremolo CS patch (at least with Mix 2) has two notes that is panned far right; G4 and F#4.

Is anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## Simon Ravn

miket said:


> I promise I'm done fooling around with this now. Back to my own music, or at least recreating other pieces.
> 
> This time it's all Tree/Mids (including the ladies of the Eric Whitacre Choir), except for the trumpet which is Mix 2 plus some reverb, and the piano (Piano in Blue x3 via pitch-shift/transposition, surround microphones). Besides that, this is "out of the box." Nothing else added.
> 
> I originally did this performance with everything on Mix 1, so it wasn't as naturally balanced as it should have been when I switched the mic positions. I just reduced everything but the strings by 6db to get an approximation.
> 
> Those rushing violins are still the weakest part, but that's on me more than it is BBCSO... although I don't know how many libraries could do that convincingly even in the best hands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, it sounds like the tubular bell cluster on the first crash drops out. I really hope whatever causes that gets sorted, because it does seem to be something amiss with the plugin itself, or at least my settings.




Sorry but none of this sounds remotely realistic. And I think it really underlines to me what seems to be the libraries biggest shortcoming: The long notes. Andy Blaneys impressive 1st piece rarely lingers on the same note for more than half a second and uses a lot of the short articulations. But when you try to do something slow it falls apart. This is especially true for woodwinds and strings. I haven't heard a single convincing emotional string line. I mean - just 3-4 notes connected that sound good! Christian's official piece also shows this problem. Legato sounds fake/bad and so do many of the sustains in general. And if you do something medium tempo, like you did with the Horner piece, it gets even worse because you get so much suction effect from the built-in (recorded) crescendos that seem to be in everything.

The shorts sound very good to amazing though! As shown in some videos and Andy Blaneys piece, they can really sound convincing and musical. This goes for woodwinds, strings and brass. And I think, had the brass had more dynamic layers, even the longs would have been very good.


----------



## Bluemount Score

gussunkri said:


> What the heck, as long as we are generously suggesting material for free updates, I'll take an Eb Clarinet for my Shostakovich mockups!


I would even pay for bigger additions like a deeply sampled piano or a a good legato choir, as long as it is a rather fair price compared to what BBCSO already contains for $999. It's all about getting as much instruments as possible in their right place and that great room sound.


----------



## erikradbo

5Lives said:


> Has anybody ”translated” any of the MIDI examples on The Page to their own templates (if you don’t own BBCSO yet)? Thinking of trying that with my CSS / CSB / BWW / CinePerc template.



There is a great BBCSO demo in Members compositions called "Closure" where the composer generously has shared the project files for this purpose. I am currently trying out a CSS / CSB / BWW / HWP , but it will take some time on my end.


----------



## Saigen

Bluemount Score said:


> I would even pay for bigger additions like a deeply sampled piano or a a good legato choir, as long as it is a rather fair price compared to what BBCSO already contains for $999. It's all about getting as much instruments as possible in their right place and that great room sound.


We have yet to see a choir that can do phrasings like this.


----------



## Zero&One

Simon Ravn said:


> Sorry but none of this sounds remotely realistic. And I think it really underlines to me what seems to be the libraries biggest shortcoming...



To be fair, people are still learning the library and there's a load to learn. And most are done solely with BBCSO

One thing I have noticed, is the amount of music made with BBCSO in under 2 weeks. Show's something in my opinion.

You see other products launched, people go crazy about them and say they are amazing... then I hear very few demos (if any). And the rare few are buried between 4 other amazing libraries that have been out for years.
Take the latest NI Orchestral Tools crazy sale, people were hoovering them up. But I'm not sure even 1 demo was posted during the 25 page obsession?


----------



## widekeys

donnyluvd2bowl said:


> Hey! Can anyone tell me if the multi-tongue patches sync to your daw tempo or if they're just phrases


They are tempo synced. It is easy to align them to the beat. In this example you can hear the articulation at 120 bpm double, triple and quadruple tongued. Then at 140 bpm double, triple and quadruple tongued.

This articulation has only the f dynamic layer option and no round robins. If you move the modwheel, it just changes the volume, not the timbre, as you can hear in the end of the mp3.


----------



## mistermister

Saigen said:


> We have yet to see a choir that can do phrasings like this.


I don't see why not, considering that's samples in that example you posted. It's just unconnected random Latin staccato syllables - you could have pulled this off many years ago (SoundIron's Requiem, Mars, Venus, Cinesample's VOXOs. and so on)


----------



## Bluemount Score

Saigen said:


> We have yet to see a choir that can do phrasings like this.



The Ark 1 Choir actually isn't too far away from this imo


----------



## ridgero

Thanks for sharing your wonderful project @Mattia Chiappa!!!

First: I'm a longtime Cubase (Win10) user and new to Logic.

My setup: Mac mini 2018, 64 GB Ram, 1 TB SSD, BBCSO (SO SSD), Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (1st gen)

I've tested the project from Mattia Chiappa. Pops & clicks start to come up in the middle of the track. Does anybody know why this happen?

I don't get any System overload messages, the CPU meter shows there is some headroom left. The fans are still quiet. The project only uses around 10 GB RAM.

I tried to change the buffer size, but the same amount of pop&clicks are still there.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

Did you try to increase the maximum number of voices in the BBCSO player? Maybe it just runs into the limit of maximum polyphony?


----------



## star.keys

erikradbo said:


> There is a great BBCSO demo in Members compositions called "Closure" where the composer generously has shared the project files for this purpose. I am currently trying out a CSS / CSB / BWW / HWP , but it will take some time on my end.


Is is a place on Spitfire website where composers are sharing content?


----------



## star.keys

James H said:


> To be fair, people are still learning the library and there's a load to learn. And most are done solely with BBCSO
> 
> One thing I have noticed, is the amount of music made with BBCSO in under 2 weeks. Show's something in my opinion.
> 
> You see other products launched, people go crazy about them and say they are amazing... then I hear very few demos (if any). And the rare few are buried between 4 other amazing libraries that have been out for years.
> Take the latest NI Orchestral Tools crazy sale, people were hoovering them up. But I'm not sure even 1 demo was posted during the 25 page obsession?


I agree with that view, except for comment for OT - OT Berlin series is a far, far better library than BBCSO (and SSO)... completely different level


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

ridgero said:


> Thanks for sharing your wonderful project @Mattia Chiappa!!!
> 
> First: I'm a longtime Cubase (Win10) user and new to Logic.
> 
> My setup: Mac mini 2018, 64 GB Ram, 1 TB SSD, BBCSO (SO SSD), Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (1st gen)
> 
> I've tested the project from Mattia Chiappa. Pops & clicks start to come up in the middle of the track. Does anybody know why this happen?
> 
> I don't get any System overload messages, the CPU meter shows there is some headroom left. The fans are still quiet. The project only uses around 10 GB RAM.
> 
> I tried to change the buffer size, but the same amount of pop&clicks are still there.
> 
> Thanks for your help!


Try changing the Stream Buffer Size to 16384. Apparently this works but I wasn't able to check for myself yet.


----------



## Zero&One

star.keys said:


> I agree with that view, except for comment for OT - OT Berlin series is a far, far better library than BBCSO (and SSO)... completely different level



The OT reference was pointing at the NI sale of recent, so that would be Arks/Inspire.
I agree the Berlin series are good and get high praise, but I rarely hear these gems on here.

CSS is probably one of the few that gets praised constantly and also delivers results. It's weird, or maybe it's just weird here?


----------



## jbuhler

star.keys said:


> I agree with that view, except for comment for OT - OT Berlin series is a far, far better library than BBCSO (and SSO)... completely different level


Perhaps, but Berlin Strings (the only library of the Berlin series I own) is also a very fussy and tedious library to use and it's an incredible RAM hog. Given the number of user demos that have been released for BBCSO, it seems that the latter produces decent results and a cohesive sound without much fuss.


----------



## erikradbo

star.keys said:


> Is is a place on Spitfire website where composers are sharing content?



That one is at a subforum here at vi-control. 



Mattia Chiappa said:


> Try changing the Stream Buffer Size to 16384. Apparently this works but I wasn't able to check for myself yet.



And here is the composer in this thread replying about those project files.


----------



## madfloyd

gussunkri said:


> What the heck, as long as we are generously suggesting material for free updates, I'll take an Eb Clarinet for my Shostakovich mockups!



Wow, you do Shostakovich mockups? Would love to hear them... Do you think this library would do it justice?


----------



## Creoin

@SpitfireSupport (FYI. I may submit a ticket later)

Upgraded the player to 1.04, on Win10 Cubase 10 Pro. Not sure the RAM usage is any better with a full template. My system RAM is 32GB.

Player seems to load in about "2-8GB," while the system RAM caps at about 32GB (Chrome is using about 6-8GB). The player continues to load, reaching about "11.9GB" (reported in the player) and continues to load without that number changing. After loading the system gradually drops to about 27GB. Maybe from compressing memory and caching/using swap files. System says ~60GB is "committed."

If the system RAM usage should match the player indication at around 12GB, then this update hasn't done that on my system.


----------



## madfloyd

Anyone using BBCSO with Studio One?


----------



## al_net77

madfloyd said:


> Anyone using BBCSO with Studio One?



Yess, me


----------



## gussunkri

madfloyd said:


> Wow, you do Shostakovich mockups? Would love to hear them... Do you think this library would do it justice?


This library is still so new to me that I couldn't say for sure. I have been using Spitfire Studio Orchestra with BHCT. However, I do them simply to learn my libraries and to help balance my mixes (and to study the music that I love!), not because I think the libraries are especially good for doing those mockups (or especially bad). It's more a matter of using and trying to learn what I already have. I am not super experienced with orchestral libraries so the mock up stuff is just a part of me learning.


----------



## haus.media

star.keys said:


> Is is a place on Spitfire website where composers are sharing content?







__





Closure - BBCSO Demo


Hello! I just finished working on this track. I wrote this precisely to test the new BBCSO library. I tried to make it sound the best I could given I only really had a couple of days to play with it. I had a ton of fun making this and I'm curious to know your thoughts! Here's the track...




vi-control.net


----------



## Saigen

Creoin said:


> @SpitfireSupport (FYI. I may submit a ticket later)
> 
> Upgraded the player to 1.04, on Win10 Cubase 10 Pro. Not sure the RAM usage is any better with a full template. My system RAM is 32GB.
> 
> Player seems to load in about "2-8GB," while the system RAM caps at about 32GB (Chrome is using about 6-8GB). The player continues to load, reaching about "11.9GB" (reported in the player) and continues to load without that number changing. After loading the system gradually drops to about 27GB. Maybe from compressing memory and caching/using swap files. System says ~60GB is "committed."
> 
> If the system RAM usage should match the player indication at around 12GB, then this update hasn't done that on my system.



Yup. Same thing happens to me.
The only thing we can do at this point to counteract this *shit* is to split every instrument into multiple patches, and disable/freeze tracks to save our asses the RAM overload. While also having to restart the DAW every 30-60 minutes or so when you get a bunch of sample dropouts.

I swear this is like a "trial period" of sorts.


----------



## Leo

miket said:


> I promise I'm done fooling around with this now. Back to my own music, or at least recreating other pieces.
> 
> This time it's all Tree/Mids (including the ladies of the Eric Whitacre Choir), except for the trumpet which is Mix 2 plus some reverb, and the piano (Piano in Blue x3 via pitch-shift/transposition, surround microphones). Besides that, this is "out of the box." Nothing else added.
> 
> I originally did this performance with everything on Mix 1, so it wasn't as naturally balanced as it should have been when I switched the mic positions. I just reduced everything but the strings by 6db to get an approximation.
> 
> Those rushing violins are still the weakest part, but that's on me more than it is BBCSO... although I don't know how many libraries could do that convincingly even in the best hands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, it sounds like the tubular bell cluster on the first crash drops out. I really hope whatever causes that gets sorted, because it does seem to be something amiss with the plugin itself, or at least my settings.



sorry, this is really bad, strings sounds almost as if played reverse


----------



## star.keys

Oh boy.. I wasn’t hoping to hear that about Windows 10. I’m still within my right to refund as I haven’t started downloading the library yet. I hope, this gets sorted soon and am sure that they are working hard on it.

Spitfire team, if you guys want any help in debugging, feel free to pop over at my place with your tools, I’m 30 mins away, food will be taken care of! In case you want to investigate/ try any fixes on my machine (I haven’t tested it yet), I’d be happy to help out.


----------



## dzilizzi

Creoin said:


> @SpitfireSupport (FYI. I may submit a ticket later)
> 
> Upgraded the player to 1.04, on Win10 Cubase 10 Pro. Not sure the RAM usage is any better with a full template. My system RAM is 32GB.
> 
> Player seems to load in about "2-8GB," while the system RAM caps at about 32GB (Chrome is using about 6-8GB). The player continues to load, reaching about "11.9GB" (reported in the player) and continues to load without that number changing. After loading the system gradually drops to about 27GB. Maybe from compressing memory and caching/using swap files. System says ~60GB is "committed."
> 
> If the system RAM usage should match the player indication at around 12GB, then this update hasn't done that on my system.


Lately, Chrome has made Window 10 unusable for me. Suddenly just eating all available RAM. I switched over to Opera. Though Chrome is not a problem on my Windows 7 computer. You might want to try it with Chrome off.


----------



## Saigen

star.keys said:


> Oh boy.. I wasn’t hoping to hear that about Windows 10. I’m still within my right to refund as I haven’t started downloading the library yet. I hope, this gets sorted soon and am sure that they are working hard on it.
> 
> Spitfire team, if you guys want any help in debugging, feel free to pop over at my place with your tools, I’m 30 mins away, food will be taken care of! In case you want to investigate/ try any fixes on my machine (I haven’t tested it yet), I’d be happy to help out.



I wish I was within my right for a refund still.
Right now I'm an unpaid slave "beta tester" who paid to be gouging my fucking eyes out for the past 13 days to make ends meet with these shitty .vst3 and .dll files. My _unsolicited_ advice to you is, unless you plan on getting a mac, you better get that refund while you still can - as now it's 50/50 whether or not it'll work like a charm for you. And if it doesn't; consider yourself screwed of 750 euro.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

dzilizzi said:


> Lately, Chrome has made Window 10 unusable for me. Suddenly just eating all available RAM. I switched over to Opera. Though Chrome is not a problem on my Windows 7 computer. You might want to try it with Chrome off.



Another of my Windows gripes...there shouldn't be any background programs running when using a DAW, including Chrome.


----------



## dzilizzi

Wolfie2112 said:


> Another of my Windows gripes...there shouldn't be any background programs running when using a DAW, including Chrome.


I just end task it. It was maxing out my RAM on my 16 GB laptop (not my music - I don't leave it on when I'm working usually) Granted some of it was YouTube, I swear a page of YT was 1 GB alone. But that is a little OT except as it affects using BBCSO. 

The other thing to check out is if your Windows 10 is optimized for your DAW. I regularly do this because Windows 10 likes to reinstall crap that it thinks you accidentally deleted or stopped when it updates. https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/pc-optimization-guide-for-windows-10/

I really miss the control I had in Windows 7.


----------



## Andrew0568

miket said:


> I promise I'm done fooling around with this now. Back to my own music, or at least recreating other pieces.
> 
> This time it's all Tree/Mids (including the ladies of the Eric Whitacre Choir), except for the trumpet which is Mix 2 plus some reverb, and the piano (Piano in Blue x3 via pitch-shift/transposition, surround microphones). Besides that, this is "out of the box." Nothing else added.
> 
> I originally did this performance with everything on Mix 1, so it wasn't as naturally balanced as it should have been when I switched the mic positions. I just reduced everything but the strings by 6db to get an approximation.
> 
> Those rushing violins are still the weakest part, but that's on me more than it is BBCSO... although I don't know how many libraries could do that convincingly even in the best hands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, it sounds like the tubular bell cluster on the first crash drops out. I really hope whatever causes that gets sorted, because it does seem to be something amiss with the plugin itself, or at least my settings.




Is this with the legato or long patches? By default the releases on the long patches are wayyyy too short, and it gives this sucking effect. Daniel James shows it off well in his videos. Sounds a lot better when turned up to 3 o'clock or more


----------



## Bluemount Score

Creoin said:


> @SpitfireSupport (FYI. I may submit a ticket later)
> 
> Upgraded the player to 1.04, on Win10 Cubase 10 Pro. Not sure the RAM usage is any better with a full template. My system RAM is 32GB.
> 
> Player seems to load in about "2-8GB," while the system RAM caps at about 32GB (Chrome is using about 6-8GB). The player continues to load, reaching about "11.9GB" (reported in the player) and continues to load without that number changing. After loading the system gradually drops to about 27GB. Maybe from compressing memory and caching/using swap files. System says ~60GB is "committed."
> 
> If the system RAM usage should match the player indication at around 12GB, then this update hasn't done that on my system.


Sadly, I can confirm this exact problem. Windows 10 32GB here as well, 1.0.4 Player.


----------



## synkrotron

I guess that because I have an i9 with 32gb RAM that I rarely even bother to check what tasks are running. Reaper seems to work fine, for what I do with it at the moment.

So I am intrigued with this talk of Chrome taking up a pile of RAM.

I currently have five tabs on the go and its RAM usage is at around half a gig.

Googledrivesync.exe takes up .4 gig, so I could perhaps consider turning that off if I have RAM issues.

I have around 60 background processes running and around 90 windows processes. Is that bad?


----------



## synkrotron

Wolfie2112 said:


> there shouldn't be any background programs running



What? None at all?


----------



## CT

Simon Ravn said:


> Sorry but none of this sounds remotely realistic. And I think it really underlines to me what seems to be the libraries biggest shortcoming: The long notes. Andy Blaneys impressive 1st piece rarely lingers on the same note for more than half a second and uses a lot of the short articulations. But when you try to do something slow it falls apart. This is especially true for woodwinds and strings. I haven't heard a single convincing emotional string line. I mean - just 3-4 notes connected that sound good! Christian's official piece also shows this problem. Legato sounds fake/bad and so do many of the sustains in general. And if you do something medium tempo, like you did with the Horner piece, it gets even worse because you get so much suction effect from the built-in (recorded) crescendos that seem to be in everything.
> 
> The shorts sound very good to amazing though! As shown in some videos and Andy Blaneys piece, they can really sound convincing and musical. This goes for woodwinds, strings and brass. And I think, had the brass had more dynamic layers, even the longs would have been very good.





Leo said:


> sorry, this is really bad, strings sounds almost as if played reverse



Well at least you're both sorry.



Andrew0568 said:


> Is this with the legato or long patches? By default the releases on the long patches are wayyyy too short, and it gives this sucking effect. Daniel James shows it off well in his videos. Sounds a lot better when turned up to 3 o'clock or more



The opening is the regular longs, and yes, the releases are at default and could probably be increased a bit. The fast violin parts are the performance patches played in real time, so you can almost certainly get better out of them.


----------



## Andrew0568

miket said:


> Well at least you're both sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> The opening is the regular longs, and yes, the releases are at default and could probably be increased a bit. The fast violin parts are the performance patches played in real time, so you can almost certainly get better out of them.



I think your demo sounded great! 

The legatos on BBCSO aren't as good as the Cinematic Studio Series, but they're not _terrible

_


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

synkrotron said:


> What? None at all?



Depends on what's running. I'm referring mainly to indexing, anti-virus, Chrome, automatic updates, bloatware, etc.


----------



## CT

Andrew0568 said:


> I think your demo sounded great!
> 
> The legatos on BBCSO aren't as good as the Cinematic Studio Series, but they're not _terrible_



Thanks, I'm glad someone didn't find it to be a totally irredeemable affront to realism.

I agree that the legatos here are a bit more "utilitarian" than those in some more specialized libraries, but the performance functionality is really great. There are just still some things, some very basic, that virtual instruments can't really do yet.


----------



## mralmostpopular

H


christianhenson said:


> We have recommended spec and it should work fine within those recommendations, if it doesn’t then we will address those issues. If you’re not sure about buying the library have an older system or are concerned about how the thing will sound and how it will affect your workflow I recommend waiting to purchase until you have seen the insane number of videos we’re making, reading reviews or indeed trying it at a trade show or just jumping on live chat on our site for advice?



Hey Christian, I’m really wanting to pull the trigger. Are you going to be discounting the SSD again for the Black Friday sale? The website only mentions the library itself. I’d love to try this out in a couple weeks when you come to NY.


----------



## dzilizzi

Wolfie2112 said:


> Another of my Windows gripes...there shouldn't be any background programs running when using a DAW, including Chrome.


Yes and no. There are a lot of background processes that have to run, otherwise your machine doesn't. But having things like sync to the cloud (Apple/Google/Amazon/etc...) should either not be loaded on a music computer or shut off when you are running your DAW. You shouldn't be running things like Outlook either. All these things are constantly dinging the CPU to say "Here I am!" 

On a good machine, it usually isn't a problem. But if you have a borderline one, any non-needed program should be off. Watch the YouTube stuff on your phone or other computer if you need to watch while working. My music laptop is older with only 16 GB of RAM (HP Win 8.1) and I can tell the difference. 

As far as Chrome and Windows 10, it is a known issue just started recently. Doesn't seem to have been fixed on my non-DAW laptop with 16 GB RAM (Lenovo). Chrome will suddenly max out all the RAM and slow the machine down to useless. There are a couple other things that also do it behind the scenes. I'm still trying to figure out how to remove them or if I can. But those usually only run when my computer is idle. So they may not affect DAW use. My new music computer with 64 GB RAM (Dell) doesn't seem to have the issues with Chrome or I'm not noticing it. (I noted the manufacturers in case it is a manufacturer problem.)


----------



## synkrotron

dzilizzi said:


> On a good machine, it usually isn't a problem.



Yeah, this is me, at the moment.

In the past I have had dual-boot workstations, one boot set to only start stuff that is absolutely necessary.

Perhaps I may go back to that one day, but dual-boot setups can be a bit of a pain and I haven't tried that since XP.


----------



## skythemusic

al_net77 said:


> Yess, me



Thoughts??


----------



## al_net77

skythemusic said:


> Thoughts??



Using 1.0.4 *and* default values mods as specified early in this thread I have no issues now (on Win10).
I made a couple of templates and soon I will start to setup some presets, but I have to say that SO seems to work well with BBCSO plugin, slightly better than in VEPro7 (the UI seems more reactive).


----------



## star.keys

Saigen said:


> I wish I was within my right for a refund still.
> Right now I'm an unpaid slave "beta tester" who paid to be gouging my fucking eyes out for the past 13 days to make ends meet with these shitty .vst3 and .dll files. My _unsolicited_ advice to you is, unless you plan on getting a mac, you better get that refund while you still can - as now it's 50/50 whether or not it'll work like a charm for you. And if it doesn't; consider yourself screwed of 750 euro.


I’m sorry to hear that. I suggest you work with them and make it work for you, since you are unfortunately locked into the deal. I’m sure some patience and pressure techniques will help.


----------



## Zedcars

Is anyone else still gobsmacked that this forum allows us to DIRECTLY interact and have a laugh with (like we're down the pub!) such industry heavyweights as Hans Zimmer, Christian Henson, Paul Thomson, amazing musicians, orchestrators, educators and many others from all corners of the music world.

I mean, I'm a nobody (not even a small fish; more like a micro-organism!). I am trying to get somewhere with what I do like we all are. But I just think...I see these amazing people who are making the future as I type these words with all these quality sample libraries, phenomenal movie/TV scores. Just to walk amongst these giants let alone interact with them is absolutely mind-blowing to me. Imagine before the internet existed if you'd told yourself where we would be technologically but also socially your younger self would have told you to go see a shrink!

OK, carry on...


----------



## Akcel

Hi,

The promotion on the BBC Symphonic is coming soon and I would have liked to have your informed opinion on it.

For buyers, what do you think? Is it up to what we can read here or there? Is this really THE bank?

What should you keep in mind before you blow your budget?

Thank you!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Akcel said:


> Hi,
> 
> The promotion on the BBC Symphonic is coming soon and I would have liked to have your informed opinion on it.
> 
> For buyers, what do you think? Is it up to what we can read here or there? Is this really THE bank?
> 
> What should you keep in mind before you blow your budget?
> 
> Thank you!



Are you on PC or Mac?


----------



## ridgero

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Try changing the Stream Buffer Size to 16384. Apparently this works but I wasn't able to check for myself yet.



That worked perfectly fine, thank you


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

ridgero said:


> That worked perfectly fine, thank you


Wonderful! That is great news!


----------



## MaxOctane

Zedcars said:


> Is anyone else still gobsmacked that this forum allows us to DIRECTLY interact and have a laugh with (like we're down the pub!) such industry heavyweights as Hans Zimmer, Christian Henson, Paul Thomson, amazing musicians, orchestrators, educators and many others from all corners of the music world.



We live in wonderful times.


----------



## Iostream

Akcel said:


> Hi,
> 
> The promotion on the BBC Symphonic is coming soon and I would have liked to have your informed opinion on it.
> 
> For buyers, what do you think? Is it up to what we can read here or there? Is this really THE bank?
> 
> What should you keep in mind before you blow your budget?
> 
> Thank you!



TL:DR It isn't perfect, but it is good. I found it worth the money, and do not regret my purchase.

As a buyer (Cubase, Windows 10, i9 9700K 64GB memory), I am happy with my purchase. I still think there is room for improvement in the plugin itself, but it is usable. Everything loaded basically takes all of my memory, but is usable. The sound is really good. Particularly in that it is cohesive, and doesn't require a ton of work to get things to sound good. 

This was not my first orchestral library, and definitely will not be my last. There are things it does very well, and areas where other libraries excel. If this were to be your first library, it is a great starting point, and I think a good value for what you get. A decent number of articulations with all sections plus solos in a balanced and easy to use package. For me, with a number of libraries, I stillI find it much easier to get basic orchestration down with this than say EWHO, or individual libraries. And because it has all sections and solos, it is a better starting point than Albion or the like. It also makes it much easier to collaborate with others as there is a single library that covers the bases.

I still think the plug in should be improved, and there are a few places where the sample content should be improved. I am also interested to see what is introduced in content updates. If you really want to wait and see, they did say it would be on sale at the intro price again for black Friday.


----------



## Noeticus

Zedcars said:


> Is anyone else still gobsmacked that this forum allows us to DIRECTLY interact and have a laugh with (like we're down the pub!) such industry heavyweights as Hans Zimmer, Christian Henson, Paul Thomson, amazing musicians, orchestrators, educators and many others from all corners of the music world.
> 
> I mean, I'm a nobody (not even a small fish; more like a micro-organism!). I am trying to get somewhere with what I do like we all are. But I just think...I see these amazing people who are making the future as I type these words with all these quality sample libraries, phenomenal movie/TV scores. Just to walk amongst these giants let alone interact with them is absolutely mind-blowing to me. Imagine before the internet existed if you'd told yourself where we would be technologically but also socially your younger self would have told you to go see a shrink!
> 
> OK, carry on...



I agree full heartedly, and wish that more people would view the free educational videos, that Christian Henson and Paul Thomson create and share with us, as no ordinary bonus.


----------



## cqd

Paul's last couple of videos have been very good..

In Christian's latest video he makes reference to a certain forum, and the negativity..

Sorry, but, in fairness, this negativity is the consequence of a) aggressive marketing when you b) don't deliver to a large portion of your customer base (windows), c) don't address the negative feedback you recieve (although Paul did, I haven't seen Christian acknowledge any of it..) and d) people can't get their money back when you have delivered something that's unusable..

This is a SIGNIFICANT purchase for a lot of people.. It's not the first Spitfire purchase I haven't necessarily been happy with, but it's the first one I've been so vocally critical of, for these reasons..


----------



## ed buller

Akcel said:


> Hi,
> 
> The promotion on the BBC Symphonic is coming soon and I would have liked to have your informed opinion on it.
> 
> For buyers, what do you think? Is it up to what we can read here or there? Is this really THE bank?
> 
> What should you keep in mind before you blow your budget?
> 
> Thank you!



as long as you have a lot of RAM, it's a wonderful purchase. It just sounds like an orchestra rather than a bunch of samples. It has issues and corners have been cut, but nothing that dent's it's quality and value.

But this is "My" opinion

best

ed


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cqd said:


> Paul's last couple of videos have been very good..
> 
> In Christian's latest video he makes reference to a certain forum, and the negativity..
> 
> Sorry, but, in fairness, this negativity is the consequence of a) aggressive marketing when you b) don't deliver to a large portion of your customer base (windows), c) don't address the negative feedback you recieve (although Paul did, I haven't seen Christian acknowledge any of it..) and d) people can't get their money back when you have delivered something that's unusable..
> 
> This is a SIGNIFICANT purchase for a lot of people.. It's not the first Spitfire purchase I haven't necessarily been happy with, but it's the first one I've been so vocally critical of, for these reasons..



The thing is, you are assuming that pretty much every Windows user is having issues. We are only seeing what's posted here in this thread, there are probably thousands of non-forum members having success. The posts here are probably a very small percentage of what's going on with their customer base. I'm not saying Windows isn't having issues, but surely it can't be across the board. I honestly hope you get your technical issues sorted out, SF seems to be really good about that.


----------



## synkrotron

Well, introductory pricing ends tomorrow... Looks like I made it safely to the other side


----------



## synkrotron

Or have I.........


----------



## dzilizzi

I managed to, but I don't know if I will make it past Christmas. Depends on what else I spend my money on.


----------



## CT

Don't mind me, just butchering more music that I love.


----------



## 5Lives

Saigen said:


> After further troubleshooting I found exactly what the issue is with Windows.
> I'm amazed the technicians haven't. It's got to do with their sloppy design.
> 
> I will elaborate further on a later date, but for now, if I'm going to provide the answer I'll be damned if I do it for free. 14 days of suffering is enough.



So instead of helping fellow composers who may be having a similar problem to you, you’re going to withhold the solution out of spite?


----------



## ism

miket said:


> Don't mind me, just butchering more music that I love.




Some very beautiful, moments in this. 

A couple of minor niggles, the first long note sounds sounds a bit static, and a few places (ie 1:14) where some longer releases might be nice. 

But in general very lovely.

(Also,was just checking out your cosmos album on band camp - gorgeous stuff)


----------



## CT

ism said:


> Some very beautiful, moments in this.
> 
> A couple of minor niggles, the first long note sounds sounds a bit static, and a few places (ie 1:14) where some longer releases might be nice.
> 
> But in general very lovely.
> 
> (Also,was just checking out your cosmos album on band camp - gorgeous stuff)



Thanks!

Yes, that first note is non vibrato. Sounds better when it's actually 30 real violinists doing it....

And I do wish that the legato patches could have their releases adjusted, but I can see how that might be sloppy to program.


----------



## erica-grace

Saigen said:


> And it's not a fix a non-programmer can achieve. So it wouldn't make a difference really.



That implies that you have to be a programmer to fix the issue - but what are you programming if you don't have access to the player's codebase?

Why not just be cool and tell everyone what it is?


----------



## star.keys

cqd said:


> Paul's last couple of videos have been very good..
> 
> In Christian's latest video he makes reference to a certain forum, and the negativity..
> 
> Sorry, but, in fairness, this negativity is the consequence of a) aggressive marketing when you b) don't deliver to a large portion of your customer base (windows), c) don't address the negative feedback you recieve (although Paul did, I haven't seen Christian acknowledge any of it..) and d) people can't get their money back when you have delivered something that's unusable..
> 
> This is a SIGNIFICANT purchase for a lot of people.. It's not the first Spitfire purchase I haven't necessarily been happy with, but it's the first one I've been so vocally critical of, for these reasons..


Link please?l


----------



## cqd

star.keys said:


> Link please?l



To what?..
Check their YouTube channels..


----------



## star.keys

Wolfie2112 said:


> there are probably thousands of non-forum members having success. The posts here are probably a very small percentage


Or, it could be exactly the other way round - there are probably thousands of non forum members experience failure? I usually take safer approach - out of whatever user representation on this forum, I see good sample of users that have reported the Windows 10 issue and from what’s evident from user comments, it hasn’t been resolved?


----------



## ism

star.keys said:


> Or, it could be exactly the other way round - there are probably thousands of non forum members experience failure? I usually take safer approach - out of whatever user representation on this forum, I see good sample of users that have reported the Windows 10 issue and from what’s evident from user comments, it hasn’t been resolved?



Conventional marketing wisdom is that you hear negative reactions much, much more loudly than positive reactions.


----------



## erica-grace

Saigen said:


> Because I didn't sign up to be a beta-tester when I purchased the product. Would you in your right mind troubleshoot for a ton of hours a day 2 weeks straight for free?



Understood.

You still didn't answer the part about programming without access to the codebase.


----------



## erica-grace

I see.

I still say that if you really do have a fix, you should not be spiteful to Spitfire by "punishing" everyone else.


----------



## ism

Saigen said:


> I took a small peek into the .vst3 as well as the .dll file and had a hypothesis, thereafter ran some tests to isolate the issue. I didn't need the codebase for it.




If you’re looking to monetize this diagnosis, this is probably not the best way to market your IP.


----------



## Denkii




----------



## cqd

It's like our very own Bitcoin time-traveller..


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Is anyone else still gobsmacked that this forum allows us to DIRECTLY interact and have a laugh with (like we're down the pub!) such industry heavyweights as Hans Zimmer, Christian Henson, Paul Thomson, amazing musicians, orchestrators, educators and many others from all corners of the music world.
> 
> I mean, I'm a nobody (not even a small fish; more like a micro-organism!). I am trying to get somewhere with what I do like we all are. But I just think...I see these amazing people who are making the future as I type these words with all these quality sample libraries, phenomenal movie/TV scores. Just to walk amongst these giants let alone interact with them is absolutely mind-blowing to me. Imagine before the internet existed if you'd told yourself where we would be technologically but also socially your younger self would have told you to go see a shrink!
> 
> OK, carry on...


Well said, and congrats for making the Spitfire playlist!

Also @SpitfireSupport, regarding the Soundcloud playlist on "The Page":

You should be able to remove the annoying player overlays (open in app/play in browser) on mobile devices by tweaking your HTML embed code to read


Code:


show_teaser=false

providing you're running a pro account. I'll give you this one for free - no blackmailing here.


----------



## MaxOctane

I've enjoyed all the demos posted here. Beautiful sound. _However, _when watching Paul Thomson's section walkthroughs, the individual instruments don't sound great to me, by themselves. The brass is often synthy. The strings are fine but not very remarkable compared to other Spitfire libs. So, is this a case of "the whole" being much more than the parts?


----------



## MaxOctane

Also, may I request for someone who owns BBCSO and also SSO, or SCS/BHCT/HZS/etc, to comment on how they compare?

Is BBCSO sonically a clear step above? Or it the sound unique enough to justify adding BBCSO to one's arsenal? Or playability, or cohesiveness?

I'm heavily inve$ted in Spitfire at this point, but haven't ever been fully satisfied, in part because of the difficulty of fitting together different libs (and even within same lib).


----------



## Akcel

Wolfie2112 said:


> Are you on PC or Mac?



On PC, I have an i7 core 4960 with 32 Go of RAM but I know BBCSO is greedy.


----------



## Akcel

Thank you Iostream and Ed Buller for your feedback


----------



## synkrotron

MaxOctane said:


> Is BBCSO sonically a clear step above?



I don't own any of the libraries you mention but my understanding is that the British Broadcasting Corporation Symphonic Orchestra library isn't supposed to be sonically a "step above" any other library, it is simply different, more "cohesive," (not my words) and everything is in the same room.


----------



## staypuft

@star.keys the update made it worse for me. The spitfire player isn't ready for prime time yet. Even if they eventually fix the software issues, you are left with a library that has too many sample problems to be used on serious work. Am I supposed to keep sending bug reports and hope for the best? No thank you. The files are stored on an external hard drive and I will probably forget I ever bought the BBCSO.

If you own SSO, OT Full Orchestra, EWSO, 8Dio Centure/Adagio, CS1, LASS and Strezov, you have almost everything you need to write commercial music. 750$ and black friday can get you all the Tarilonte libraries. Or Cinematic Studio Series and CinePerc's awesome Sony sound to complement Teldex. Spectrasonics, Heavyocity, Projectsam for all your hybrid needs.

Or if you are feeling bold just download the BBCSO and wait for the two_dynamic layer piano that you will get for //free\\. I bet it has "character" and will make collaborating with other composers a breeze because that's exactly what we need:: another poorly sampled piano with a famous name attached to it.


----------



## AEF

any specific sampling issues you encountered?


----------



## mikeh-375

staypuft said:


> @star.keys
> 
> .....................Or if you are feeling bold just download the BBCSO and wait for the *two_dynamic layer piano* that you will get for //free\\. I bet it has "character" and will make collaborating with other composers a breeze because that's exactly what we need:: another poorly sampled piano with a famous name attached to it.



_Compression of expression!_ I do hope that's just sarcasm above @staypuft


----------



## star.keys

staypuft said:


> @star.keys the update made it worse for me. The spitfire player isn't ready for prime time yet. Even if they eventually fix the software issues, you are left with a library that has too many sample problems to be used on serious work. Am I supposed to keep sending bug reports and hope for the best? No thank you. The files are stored on an external hard drive and I will probably forget I ever bought the BBCSO.
> 
> If you own SSO, OT Full Orchestra, EWSO, 8Dio Centure/Adagio, CS1, LASS and Strezov, you have almost everything you need to write commercial music. 750$ and black friday can get you all the Tarilonte libraries. Or Cinematic Studio Series and CinePerc's awesome Sony sound to complement Teldex. Spectrasonics, Heavyocity, Projectsam for all your hybrid needs.
> 
> Or if you are feeling bold just download the BBCSO and wait for the two_dynamic layer piano that you will get for //free\\. I bet it has "character" and will make collaborating with other composers a breeze because that's exactly what we need:: another poorly sampled piano with a famous name attached to it.



Thank you Staypuft. Refund requested.

I’m not very excited with this situation led by Windows issues.


----------



## I like music

miket said:


> Don't mind me, just butchering more music that I love.




Sounds really nice, that! I tried transcribing this once. Was a terrible effort. Did you do it by ear, or was there a midi floating around on the forums here with some idea of the orchestration etc?


----------



## Creoin

I just want to say that the Windows issues I mentioned were a neutral report. So that people can get a picture of the current state, and I'd like to know if others are having similar issues too. 

I would say if you're wondering about BBCSO, just listen to what people are making with it and decide whether you like the sound or not. There's a Soundcloud playlist on The Page now. Maybe keep an ear on that. (Keeping in mind that people are still learning the library)

I have full confidence that Spitfire will have BBCSO working as intended for Windows users soon. I'm trying to be patient until then, and I can still learn how it works in the meantime.


----------



## chemie262

Wolfie2112 said:


> The thing is, you are assuming that pretty much every Windows user is having issues. We are only seeing what's posted here in this thread, there are probably thousands of non-forum members having success. The posts here are probably a very small percentage of what's going on with their customer base. I'm not saying Windows isn't having issues, but surely it can't be across the board. I honestly hope you get your technical issues sorted out, SF seems to be really good about that.


But there are also thousands of Windows users with issues but do not make this public (like me) and wait for the fix of the problem. (Ryzen Threatripper 2950, 16 cores, 128 GB, EV860 2 TB)
The main problem is, that only 4-5 cores are used and when 1 cores gets to 100 % load I get the drops and this happens already with relatively small orchestration.


----------



## Erik

Hi,

Herewith 2 demo user tracks of the BBCSO strings. First one is a very smooth ensemble setting in a song by Schubert, Litanei. The arrangement has been made bu y Muk, a well known member here. A very well done job by him! Anyway, I was interested in an intimate sort of playing. Added the harp BBCSO (with some EQ to get it less muffled). Some verb applied (Fabfilter).

Second, I did this before with other string libraries: South by South West, from Stephen Barton, a (film score) composer who made this once for the DVZ strings. A complicated product that never reached the clientele I am afraid. However, this piece is full of very agressive moments with ff marcato, ff tremolo, ff spiccato, but nice legato also included. I gave it a try with the BBCSO strings. Personally I think this is a nice version, I kept it bone dry, just mix1 here. It gives the impression of a lively ensemble with players who are inspired to get the job 100% done.

On my PC (Win10, 128Gb RAM, Intel i9-7920X, CPU 2.90 Ghz) it was actually impossible to implement other mics decently without dropouts.

I must say after a week: I like the sound of these strings (and other instruments as well), but loading times are still an issue. In mail contact there has been something mentioned about anb 1.05 version, that would improve loading times. We'll see.

A small detail: it seems to me that the legato patch have other mic settings than the other patches: in the first legato phrase of the Barton piece noticable: more far away (it seems to change even within the phrase itself), anybody agree here, or is it just me?

I hope you'll enjoy these tracks, it can give members more support in their choice of purchasing this product or not.

I hope that SF will improve their player as requested somewhere in the last 6400 posts. I used the settings here of another member: resp. 768, 6144, 8192, 12.


----------



## I like music

Erik said:


> Hi,
> 
> Herewith 2 demo user tracks of the BBCSO strings. First one is a very smooth ensemble setting in a song by Schubert, Litanei. The arrangement has been made bu y Muk, a well known member here. A very well done job by him! Anyway, I was interested in an intimate sort of playing. Added the harp BBCSO (with some EQ to get it less muffled). Some verb applied (Fabfilter).
> 
> Second, I did this before with other string libraries: South by South West, from Stephen Barton, a (film score) composer who made this once for the DVZ strings. A complicated product that never reached the clientele I am afraid. However, this piece is full of very agressive moments with ff marcato, ff tremolo, ff spiccato, but nice legato also included. I gave it a try with the BBCSO strings. Personally I think this is a nice version, I kept it bone dry, just mix1 here. It gives the impression of a lively ensemble with players who are inspired to get the job 100% done.
> 
> On my PC (Win10, 128Gb RAM, Intel i9-7920X, CPU 2.90 Ghz) it was actually impossible to implement other mics decently without dropouts.
> 
> I must say after a week: I like the sound of these strings (and other instruments as well), but loading times are still an issue. In mail contact there has been something mentioned about anb 1.05 version, that would improve loading times. We'll see.
> 
> A small detail: it seems to me that the legato patch have other mic settings than the other patches: in the first legato phrase of the Barton piece noticable: more far away (it seems to change even within the phrase itself), anybody agree here, or is it just me?
> 
> I hope you'll enjoy these tracks, it can give members more support in their choice of purchasing this product or not.
> 
> I hope that SF will improve their player as requested somewhere in the last 6400 posts. I used the settings here of another member: resp. 768, 6144, 8192, 12.



Thanks for adding this. I think the Muk version you're referring to was one that I had downloaded quite a while ago, here. I _think (not sure)_ the version I'm attaching is the same version of @muk's, and it is from CSS. Not sure why I'm posting it, but perhaps doing it just as a point of reference, to help compare a flagship "dedicated" strings library vs the strings that come with BBCSO.


----------



## Dollismine

When you get yours, when you find out in the morning that you have a meeting at 6:30 and your wife has just invited friends to dinner at night !!!

AahahahahAHAHAhahahahAHHAHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

(my confort is that the BBC Contrabass clarinet is a model manufactured by "my" company !)


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

chemie262 said:


> But there are also thousands of Windows users with issues but do not make this public (like me) and wait for the fix of the problem.



But we don’t know that, you are only sssuming based on a handful of reports on this forum. Perhaps there are....or perhaps not. The thing is, there are reported Windows users with success, so it’s not a simple fix. I really hope SF gets it resolved.


----------



## Kony

Windows 10 user here putting off any purchase indefinitely until confirmed that it's working okay on W10. Based on the reports here, there are ongoing bugs for W10 users - particularly related to CPU and RAM issues.


----------



## John R Wilson

I'll be giving the library a try soon and will report back, just downloading it now. I'm hoping I don't have too many issues.


----------



## synthetic

synkrotron said:


> I don't own any of the libraries you mention but my understanding is that the British Broadcasting Corporation Symphonic Orchestra library isn't supposed to be sonically a "step above" any other library, it is simply different, more "cohesive," (not my words) and everything is in the same room.



I love the tone of the instruments and room. That is what sold me, and that is what is most important about an instrument. You can get everything else right, every dynamic layer and scripting trick and 99 round robins. But if the sound isn't there then who cares.


----------



## Jett Hitt

I like music said:


> Thanks for adding this. I think the Muk version you're referring to was one that I had downloaded quite a while ago, here. I _think (not sure)_ the version I'm attaching is the same version of @muk's, and it is from CSS. Not sure why I'm posting it, but perhaps doing it just as a point of reference, to help compare a flagship "dedicated" strings library vs the strings that come with BBCSO.


Oh my. Guess this makes me really glad I own CSS.


----------



## synthetic

Still working great for me on Windows 10/VEP. Guess someone needs to say that once every 30 pages.


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

synthetic said:


> Still working great for me on Windows 10/VEP. Guess someone needs to say that once every 30 pages.



Haha. Yep, luckily no problems for a W10 user here as well.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

synthetic said:


> Still working great for me on Windows 10/VEP. Guess someone needs to say that once every 30 pages.



And that's what I'm talking about....it's not every Windows user. You obviously have a configuration that "works", which is why it's so damn hard to troubleshoot a PC....especially a custom build.


----------



## al_net77

As said no problems now on Win10, both VEPro and Studio One


----------



## 5Lives

hittjett said:


> Oh my. Guess this makes me really glad I own CSS.



I agree...the CSS legato sounds much clearer. The BBCSO version is very mushy and not particularly articulate. Would be great to start seeing more comparisons of BBCSO to other libraries like this.


----------



## John R Wilson

5Lives said:


> I agree...the CSS legato sounds much clearer. The BBCSO version is very mushy and not particularly articulate. Would be great to start seeing more comparisons of BBCSO to other libraries like this.



I agree the CSS version does sound better, however, did this version have any effects and mixing done on it or is it out the box sound like the BBCSO example? Also, it's probably not the best comparison because it sounds as if it has been mixed with more of the close mics, creating quite a detailed and close sound whereas mix one was used in the BBCSO example posted by Erik.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Kony said:


> Windows 10 user here putting off any purchase indefinitely until confirmed that it's working okay on W10. Based on the reports here, there are ongoing bugs for W10 users - particularly related to CPU and RAM issues.



Definitely has CPU uses. If I adjust any settings for the plugin like to have it stream more from the SSD I get pops and crackles. Have to keep it on default, and even then you can see it's very resource hungry in comparison to Kontakt. The plugin definitely needs optimization.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, It appears that if you run it inside a plug-in host, such as vepro, or blue cat patchwork, which I tried with Pro tools, the ram usage and CPU is ok..is everyone that's using it successfully on windows using vepro?


----------



## muk

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> I agree the CSS version does sound better, however, did this version have any effects and mixing done on it or is it out the box sound like the BBCSO example?



If I remember correctly it is CSS out of the box, with just a little reverb added. Maybe I made some subtle eq adjustments (if I did it was nothing drastic). No other treatment. I can check whether I still have the project file if you want to know for sure.

If anybody is interested, I posted the midi file and score here:






Lyrical legato strings comparison


Hello everyone After posting an arrangement of a Schubert song that I had made, @Erik asked me if I would be willing to share the midi files so that we could compare renderings with several string libraries. After giving it some thought, here they are. I can only contribute two libraries...




vi-control.net


----------



## erikradbo

whiskers said:


> wow...(not me):



Hello everyone!

Matti who composed that with BBCSO shared his project files, here is a version I made with CSS/CSB/BWW/HOP for comparison. Bear in mind when comparing that I didn't take the time to redo all the CC data, only some edits where it clearly didn't work. Hope this helps for people wondering about sonic differences.



What you're hearing:
Strings: CSS, close mics, some EQ and Exciter, Spaces So.Cal Strings. +CSSS where BBCSO leader patches was used.
Brass: CSB, ordinary mics, Spaces So.Call Brass
Winds: BWW Legacy, close mics, So.Cal Winds
Percussions: HOP, So.cal percussions
Harp: An Angelic Harp that doesn't sit very well.

Edit: Added details about libraries used.


----------



## John R Wilson

erikradbo said:


> Matti who composed that with BBCSO shared his project files, here is a version with CSS/CSB/BWW/HOP for comparison.





This is an interesting comparison. Do you know if their was any mixing carried out on the CSS/CBS version? The BBCSO version does seems to have parts that do sound fake but maybe this is the way the piece was programmed, However, I love the sense of the room and cohesiveness of the BBCSO which you don't get with the CSS/CSB/BWW/HOP version. On the other hand the CSS/CSB/BWW/HOP version does seem to sound more clear and clean to me while the BBCSO one sounds more muddy.


----------



## erikradbo

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> This is an interesting comparison. Do you know if their was any mixing carried out on the CSS/CBS version? The BBCSO version does seems to have parts that do sound fake but maybe this is the way the piece was programmed, However, I love the sense of the room and cohesiveness of the BBCSO which you don't get with the CSS/CSB/BWW/HOP version. On the other hand the CSS/CSB/BWW/HOP version does seem to sound more clear and clean to me while the BBCSO one sounds more muddy.



Edited my post with some more details. I agree with your analysis, but I think it's possible to get closer to that sound with mixing and reverb, when it comes to cohesiveness though it might be harder.


----------



## ridgero

I wish BBCSO had Legato CS Strings.


----------



## Andrew0568

I don't know why he's not promoting it more, but this is exactly what I was looking for in terms of how to EQ BBCSO: https://joel-dollie.teachable.com/

He goes through how he mixed each instrument. There's quite a bit of low mids in BBCSO, and taking a couple db out of each instrument really makes it less muddy sounding


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

ridgero said:


> I wish BBCSO had Legato CS Strings.


And also for all other libraries. With the exception of Con Moto.

And by the way, at Spitfire chamber strings have excellent patches with runs. And also not a bad legato, not perfect of course. However, I hope that the developers will make good runs for BBS.


----------



## 5Lives

The BBCSO version has a cohesive quality to it as you would hope - maybe a bit of lushness, though the CSS version is very well done as well! Makes me even more hesitant to buy BBCSO though - I imagine there’s a lot of value in learning how to translate these educational and community MIDI files to your own templates.


----------



## star.keys

Wolfie2112 said:


> But we don’t know that, you are only sssuming based on a handful of reports on this forum. Perhaps there are....or perhaps not. The thing is, there are reported Windows users with success, so it’s not a simple fix. I really hope SF gets it resolved.



Hey Just curious, does it work for you? Are you on Mac/PC?


----------



## AEF

erikradbo said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> Matti who composed that with BBCSO shared his project files, here is a version I made with CSS/CSB/BWW/HOP for comparison. Bear in mind when comparing that I didn't take the time to redo all the CC data, only some edits where it clearly didn't work. Hope this helps for people wondering about sonic differences.
> 
> 
> 
> What you're hearing:
> Strings: CSS, close mics, some EQ and Exciter, Spaces So.Cal Strings. +CSSS where BBCSO leader patches was used.
> Brass: CSB, ordinary mics, Spaces So.Call Brass
> Winds: BWW Legacy, close mics, So.Cal Winds
> Percussions: HOP, So.cal percussions
> Harp: An Angelic Harp that doesn't sit very well.
> 
> Edit: Added details about libraries used.




Fantastic job for doing this!

CSS and CSB for some reason for me, don't blend together, IMO. I own both, and often think that I'm crazy bc I really do not enjoy CSB at all. I feel they both can have an unnatural thickness and as a result everything sounds on the same plane. 

If SF had really deeply sampled the BBCSO I really WOULD be a fantastic library bc of the cohesiveness.


----------



## cqd

Yeah..has anyone on windows, using Cubase or Pro tools, without using a wrapper/vepro, got it working correctly?

Anyone?..


----------



## mralmostpopular

Has anyone loaded other libraries on their Spitfire SSD? My other libraries only total like 100 GB, so I’m considering the SSD vs buying one and downloading.


----------



## Jett Hitt

erikradbo said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> Matti who composed that with BBCSO shared his project files, here is a version I made with CSS/CSB/BWW/HOP for comparison. Bear in mind when comparing that I didn't take the time to redo all the CC data, only some edits where it clearly didn't work. Hope this helps for people wondering about sonic differences.
> 
> 
> 
> What you're hearing:
> Strings: CSS, close mics, some EQ and Exciter, Spaces So.Cal Strings. +CSSS where BBCSO leader patches was used.
> Brass: CSB, ordinary mics, Spaces So.Call Brass
> Winds: BWW Legacy, close mics, So.Cal Winds
> Percussions: HOP, So.cal percussions
> Harp: An Angelic Harp that doesn't sit very well.
> 
> Edit: Added details about libraries used.



I prefer the sound of BBCSO in this example. I am sure that it is the room as much as anything. These instruments just seem like they belong together. I am going to have to resist the urge to supplement my gotos and just see if I can get this "cohesion" in my own music. It makes me hopeful for BBCSO.


----------



## Loïc D

cqd said:


> Yeah..has anyone on windows, using Cubase or Pro tools, without using a wrapper/vepro, got it working correctly?
> 
> Anyone?..


Wouldn’t it be useful to start a thread for all PC users with BBCSO where they describe their config and whether it’s working or not.
This would be useful for both users & Spitfire. Maybe a pattern will emerge that would lead to a definite fix

ps: I’m on Mac and don’t own BBCSO. I propose this out of sheer generosity:emoji_angel:


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

star.keys said:


> Hey Just curious, does it work for you? Are you on Mac/PC?



I'm on Mac, works great. As a test though, I might install BBCSO on my salve PC and see what happens (Win 10). I'm also curious as to whether or not VEPro is able to handle the reported core issues more efficiently.


----------



## John R Wilson

hittjett said:


> I prefer the sound of BBCSO in this example. I am sure that it is the room as much as anything. These instruments just seem like they belong together. I am going to have to resist the urge to supplement my gotos and just see if I can get this "cohesion" in my own music. It makes me hopeful for BBCSO.



I agree, it just feels like it is a cohesive orchestra. It would be interesting to see a comparison between spitfire symphonic orchestra and the bbcso.


----------



## chemie262

cqd said:


> Yeah..has anyone on windows, using Cubase or Pro tools, without using a wrapper/vepro, got it working correctly?
> 
> Anyone?..


not yet. I tried a lot of settings. But still struggle with slow loading (and unloading, when I close Cubase) and drops even with only 12 instruments. Never had a similar problem with other libraries.


----------



## erikradbo

hittjett said:


> I prefer the sound of BBCSO in this example. I am sure that it is the room as much as anything. These instruments just seem like they belong together. I am going to have to resist the urge to supplement my gotos and just see if I can get this "cohesion" in my own music. It makes me hopeful for BBCSO.



Yea I agree. However, remember that this is an attempt to imitate something similar to the BBCSO sound with midi files created for that library. There is no doubt ways to come closer and make it more cohesive, I will try a few other mixes and mic choices soon and upload. Then if it's possible to reach the same level of cohesiveness...who knows.


----------



## SweetPIe

If you are trying to use BBCSO in a Windows environment my advice would be to stay well away. We've had the product since release and still haven't got it working. The last patch broke our system. Tech support has been slow and unreliable.


----------



## Zedcars

erikradbo said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> Matti who composed that with BBCSO shared his project files, here is a version I made with CSS/CSB/BWW/HOP for comparison. Bear in mind when comparing that I didn't take the time to redo all the CC data, only some edits where it clearly didn't work. Hope this helps for people wondering about sonic differences.
> 
> 
> 
> What you're hearing:
> Strings: CSS, close mics, some EQ and Exciter, Spaces So.Cal Strings. +CSSS where BBCSO leader patches was used.
> Brass: CSB, ordinary mics, Spaces So.Call Brass
> Winds: BWW Legacy, close mics, So.Cal Winds
> Percussions: HOP, So.cal percussions
> Harp: An Angelic Harp that doesn't sit very well.
> 
> Edit: Added details about libraries used.



To me the individual sections sound amazing and realistic, but I’m still left with the impression my ear is being tricked because they sound like they are not playing within the same space. I mean, I know you were clear about that when you listed the libraries, but still I think the sound, while very very good, still lacks the cohesiveness (there’s that word again!) that the BBCSO has. This is apparent whether you know which libraries were used or not.

Thank you for taking the trouble to post this - it’s great to have this comparison.


----------



## christianhenson

This is a rare gem, first time on camera!!! the original Spitfire bespoke range!!!


----------



## Bluemount Score

christianhenson said:


> This is a rare gem, first time on camera!!! the original Spitfire bespoke range!!!



How can this be a good video if Paul is not very excited today??


----------



## Michael Antrum

I'm surprised. Why wasn't Paul very excited to show us this ? 

Seriously though, this must be a great deal of fun to look back on, and remember all the ups and downs of the ride to get where you are now. 

I sometimes drive past the building where I started my company, and it always brings a wry smile....


----------



## donnyluvd2bowl

WOW

I can't believe Spitfire is ditching UACC? Or for some reason BBCSO doesn't come pre-mapped to UACC? Am I missing something?


----------



## Kony

Wolfie2112 said:


> And that's what I'm talking about....it's not every Windows user


Not worth spending that much to play roulette thanks! Am I right in thinking it works okay across all Macs?


----------



## Saigen

christianhenson said:


> This is a rare gem, first time on camera!!! the original Spitfire bespoke range!!!




Another rare gem is a company that restitutes consumers for a defect plugin.
While we're at it, since fixing memory leaks is too much work for Spitfire -
I'll humbly request a fix the Tremolo CS patch for Violins I (Mix 2).

How the hell could you overlook something like this?


----------



## madfloyd

SweetPIe said:


> If you are trying to use BBCSO in a Windows environment my advice would be to stay well away. We've had the product since release and still haven't got it working. The last patch broke our system. Tech support has been slow and unreliable.



I wanted to buy this so bad but since I’m in a Windows environment I can’t afford to roll the dice.


----------



## Kony

Is there any reason why we don't see these Windows issues with other library developers?


----------



## brenneisen

Saigen said:


> How the hell could you overlook something like this?



an easy fix on Kontakt but they now love their hype-designed player omg we're so cool, we've gone proprietary, we are absolute creators! (now look at our big knob! you can turn it... give it a try)


----------



## Uiroo

Kony said:


> Is there any reason why we don't see these Windows issues with other library developers?


Probably because most of them use Kontakt, I would think. Apart from Kontakt I can only think of PLAY, and it got a lot of hate when it was new.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Kony said:


> Not worth spending that much to play roulette thanks! Am I right in thinking it works okay across all Macs?


It is certainly working on my Mac Pro. @christianhenson's template takes 25.49 GB RAM. I am not sure what happened to the 11.5 GB figure that was quoted in a video, but it isn't a problem for me with Mix 1. I don't know how lesser systems could add spill mics, though. Turning them on for one track seems to use about .5 GB. I have 64 GB, so it isn't crowding me, but for folks running 32 GB, anything other than Mix 1 with a full template seems like a stretch. I suppose that few compositions would require everything to be loaded, so a lot of room could be made by unloading what you aren't using.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

brenneisen said:


> an easy fix on Kontakt but they now love their hype-designed player omg we're so cool, we've gone proprietary, we are absolute creators! (now look at our big knob! you can turn it... give it a try)



For what it’s worth, I actually totally dig the new player. I love the esthetics, and it’s very easy to use for schloops like me. I also really like how I can adjust the size of the GUI by simply dragging the corner.


----------



## dzilizzi

Kony said:


> Is there any reason why we don't see these Windows issues with other library developers?


Probably have based on comments I've heard on EW's original player. This is only the 3rd complicated library on this player. Hopefully it will be fixed by next year when I get it. Though I will be keeping an eye on whether or not it is working. And I do need to try out the Labs stuff. I just have most of them on Kontakt, so I forget to try the player.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

hittjett said:


> I suppose that few compositions would require everything to be loaded, so a lot of room could be made by unloading what you aren't using.



That’s exactly how I’ve been setting up my sessions, I can now run a ton of instances on my MacBook. Haven’t needed to consider the slave yet.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

Windows users don't panic.
I had a memory problem with BBSCO, reported it to Spitfire in a friendly way and sent some debug info.
The 1.0.4 release has solved it .
So they are working on it.
I am sure more improvements and fixes will come.
There is just too much at stake.


----------



## Øivind

Just chiming in, win10/cubendo10 user here. Bought the SSD, slow loading even after the patch.


----------



## ridgero

hittjett said:


> It is certainly working on my Mac Pro. @christianhenson's template takes 25.49 GB RAM. I am not sure what happened to the 11.5 GB figure that was quoted in a video, but it isn't a problem for me with Mix 1. I don't know how lesser systems could add spill mics, though. Turning them on for one track seems to use about .5 GB. I have 64 GB, so it isn't crowding me, but for folks running 32 GB, anything other than Mix 1 with a full template seems like a stretch. I suppose that few compositions would require everything to be loaded, so a lot of room could be made by unloading what you aren't using.



It takes around 12 GB on my Mac.


----------



## ridgero

brenneisen said:


> an easy fix on Kontakt but they now love their hype-designed player omg we're so cool, we've gone proprietary, we are absolute creators! (now look at our big knob! you can turn it... give it a try)



I‘m a big fan.

Sorry for feeding the trolls.


----------



## donnyluvd2bowl

fwiw Win10/ProTools fine loading time as an insert (m.2 ssd)

haven't integrated into VEP template yet though


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ridgero said:


> It takes around 12 GB on my Mac.



Which template?


----------



## Loïc D

Kony said:


> Is there any reason why we don't see these Windows issues with other library developers?



Hmmm, the first version of EW Play drove me mad.
I am an early adopter of Kontakt. Had it since version 1. It was working so bad and so unstable on my PC that I went back... to hardware samplers. It's only when they release the version supporting DFD (maybe Kontakt 2 or 3) that I went again on it and, still, performance was a big issue.
IIRC, Halion was good from the beginning (it's so long ago that I forgot).
Never tried SampleTank but read terrible things about it at the time.
Back then, you had to wait for months to get a fix and it was quite impossible to reach the company - not to speak about developers.

I'm pretty sure SA will fix their player and update the library in the forthcoming weeks.
So far, the most clever thing to do is to report bugs on their website (not here, it's not a support community). Sadly, sarcasm sure helps nobody. 
I've been doing support for my own software product in the past and I hated ppl who were accusing us but not willing to provide any clue (oddly this comes often together). Hopefully most of the customers who had issues were kindly providing me with clues (config, screen caps, Skype sessions) and this is the only way things were fixed.

We will see if future OT player will be flawless.

Besides, performance / stability / auto updates & reboot when you go take a piss / incompatibilities / poor driver performance & behaviour are exactly the reasons why I left PC for Mac 5 years ago. Never had a single issue since then, and even though limited in RAM, my fair MPB late 2013 shows very good performance and is stable all over the (free) updates.
Only issue was the screen film teardown that was replaced for free in 48 hours.

I also use a PC laptop professionally and it's still such a PITA. One day headphone set doesn't work, then it's the graphic card issue crashing AutoCAD, then it does not go into pause, then it's waking up in my bag becoming hot like hell, then it's the bluetooth mouse stutters, then it's updating by itself in the middle of a strategy committee, then it's slow like hell, then it's the power supply blowing the fuse, etc. To me, PC world means _per se _rolling the dice (far too) often.


----------



## ridgero

Wolfie2112 said:


> Which template?



Christian‘s & Jake‘s Logic Template


----------



## Saigen

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Windows users don't panic.
> I had a memory problem with BBSCO, reported it to Spitfire in a friendly way and sent some debug info.
> The 1.0.4 release has solved it .
> So they are working on it.
> I am sure more improvements and fixes will come.
> There is just too much at stake.



Resolved, but how? Can you hook us up with examples of the numbers you see from your system? Below you'll see mine.

As we can observe, the only loaded instruments are 
Violin I, Violin II, Violas, Celli & Doublebasses.
Violin I Leader, Violin II Leader, Viola Leader, Celli Leader & Bass Leader.

Here’s the Cubase Project alongside the buffer & preload:






This is the task manager for the current project.

https://puu.sh/EBntw/fc8d165a92.png (<div class="bbImageWrapper js-lbImage" title="fc8d165a92.png"
data-src="https://puu.sh/EBntw/fc8d165a92.png" data-lb-sidebar-href="" data-lb-caption-extra-html="" data-single-image="1">
<img src="https://puu.sh/EBntw/fc8d165a92.png"
data-url="https://puu.sh/EBntw/fc8d165a92.png"
class="bbImage"
data-zoom-target="1"
style=""
alt="fc8d165a92.png"
title=""
width="" height="" />
</div>)

This is the task manager showing actual memory used.





This is the resource browser alongside the CPU browser from within Task Manager.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Saigen said:


> Resolved, but how? Can you hook us up with examples of the numbers you see from your system? Below you'll see mine.
> 
> As we can observe, the only loaded instruments are
> Violin I, Violin II, Violas, Celli & Doublebasses.
> Violin I Leader, Violin II Leader, Viola Leader, Celli Leader & Bass Leader.
> 
> Here’s the Cubase Project alongside the buffer & preload:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the task manager for the current project.
> 
> https://puu.sh/EBntw/fc8d165a92.png (<div class="bbImageWrapper js-lbImage" title="fc8d165a92.png"
> data-src="https://puu.sh/EBntw/fc8d165a92.png" data-lb-sidebar-href="" data-lb-caption-extra-html="" data-single-image="1">
> <img src="https://puu.sh/EBntw/fc8d165a92.png"
> data-url="https://puu.sh/EBntw/fc8d165a92.png"
> class="bbImage"
> data-zoom-target="1"
> style=""
> alt="fc8d165a92.png"
> title=""
> width="" height="" />
> </div>)
> 
> This is the task manager showing actual memory used.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the resource browser alongside the CPU browser from within Task Manager.



Are you able to use these numbers for Pre-Load and Stream Buffer size without pops and crackles in Cubase? Whenever I adjust these closer to your numbers I get massive real-time spikes every 3 secs on an SSD. I have to leave the settings at default to get any sort of normal behaviour from the SA plugin.


----------



## Saigen

Benjamin Duk said:


> Are you able to use these numbers for Pre-Load and Stream Buffer size without pops and crackles in Cubase? Whenever I adjust these closer to your numbers I get massive real-time spikes every 3 secs on an SSD. I have to leave the settings at default to get any sort of normal behaviour from the SA plugin.


I get lots of cracks and pops if I change and leave it in the same project. I'll have to restart the DAW in order for it to be effective.


----------



## redlester

hittjett said:


> It is certainly working on my Mac Pro. @christianhenson's template takes 25.49 GB RAM. I am not sure what happened to the 11.5 GB figure that was quoted in a video, but it isn't a problem for me with Mix 1. I don't know how lesser systems could add spill mics, though. Turning them on for one track seems to use about .5 GB. I have 64 GB, so it isn't crowding me, but for folks running 32 GB, anything other than Mix 1 with a full template seems like a stretch. I suppose that few compositions would require everything to be loaded, so a lot of room could be made by unloading what you aren't using.



Is that 25.49GB displayed in the plugin or in Activity Monitor? 

On mine the plugin showed 11.4GB with all tracks turned on in the Hybrid template.


----------



## brenneisen

ridgero said:


> I‘m a big fan.
> 
> Sorry for feeding the trolls.



not trolling at all and I actually don't dislike their player that much

I dislike the limitations, the "we know better than you, you can't tweak, you won't know how to do it right" attitude when they've proved themselves very unreliable before


there's round-robin lying (is that a thing?) on Albion ONE, patches that show 8 RRs on gui but when you look inside it's like RR1, RR2, RR3, RR4, RR1, RR2, RR3, RR4


some broken RR7 on SSS and how do they fix it? Duplicate RR2, rename it, substitute. That's not 8 RRs, that's 7 RRs and a lame workaround


some (not many, thankfully) wonky legato transitions that you can't fix using neighbor samples because patches are locked. We get it, we'd melt and die when staring at Andy's sacred code lines but you can lock scripts without locking the whole patch

won't ever trust a work tool where little quirks like these can only be fixed by calling support and hoping they care enough and in time


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

Saigen said:


> Resolved, but how? Can you hook us up with examples of the numbers you see from your system? Below you'll see mine.


Ok. So first of all my problem was that even one patch would fill up my complete 16GB.
So probably others have other problems.
Nevertheless here are my figures for the same patches loaded:


----------



## Iostream

I have done a good bit of messing around with the templates since 1.0.4 came out. With the hybrid Cubase template loaded and all tracks enabled, my task manager shows Cubase sits at roughly 13% CPU and 24.5GB of memory in use, though that isn't the whole story, as my system shows over 90% of my 64GB in use, with nothing showing me what is actually using that much extra memory. That said, it seems fairly responsive. I would consider this usable, if not ideal. Out of curiosity, I also ducplicated that template, but with everything hosted in Komplete Kontrol. This showed similar memory usage, but CPU sitting around 40% even with Cubase idle. Can't really blame Spitfire for that though. Load times with everything enabled are running close to 10 minutes for both versions. This isn't *much* worse than loading my full template which has a mix of Kontakt and Play. Of course with everything disabled, it is considerably less... I have run into issues with Cubase locking up when disabling tracks twice, though I don't know if that is Cubase or Spitfire since I don' t disable tracks often in my workflow.

I also ran the Cubase version of Trois Gnossiennes. Other than taking a long time to load off of SSD, it ran smoothly. Memory usage was closer to 12GB. Moving around inside the project was not an issue, the system felt fairly snappy. But again, this is on a 64GB machine. I think that might be the big difference. Things are better with 1.0.4 than they were with 1.0.3, but something still seems off. My machine just seems big enough to deal with it.


----------



## Saigen

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Ok. So first of all my problem was that even one patch would fill up my complete 16GB.
> So probably others have other problems.
> Nevertheless here are my figures for the same patches loaded:



Okay. I can already tell this isn't fixed for you.
Even if you were to lower the preload size to 1000, you'd see the same figure at the end.
That's because the plugin, after overloading multiple times, forces itself to halt it's processes.

Had you more RAM, you'd see a far higher number than that.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

Saigen said:


> Okay. I can already tell this isn't fixed for you.
> Even if you were to lower the preload size to 1000, you'd see the same figure at the end.
> That's because the plugin, after overloading multiple times, forces itself to halt it's processes.
> 
> Had you more RAM, you'd see a far higher number than that.


Might be.


----------



## mistermister

Saigen said:


> This is the task manager showing actual memory used.


How does your Detailed/Information tab of the task manager look? (sorted by memory use would be handy). The screenshots you've posted aren't really that helpful for diagnosing much.


----------



## lumcas

Saigen said:


> Another rare gem is a company that restitutes consumers for a defect plugin.
> While we're at it, since fixing memory leaks is too much work for Spitfire -
> I'll humbly request a fix the Tremolo CS patch for Violins I (Mix 2).
> 
> How the hell could you overlook something like this?



Is this for real?


----------



## Saigen

mistermister said:


> How does your Detailed/Information tab of the task manager look? (sorted by memory use would be handy). The screenshots you've posted aren't really that helpful for diagnosing much.


----------



## mistermister

Saigen said:


>


Thanks- forgive me for being a bit confused, but what exactly is the issue you're having? Before you had said that you couldn't load more than 3gb into Cubase, but you have 10gb loaded in that picture.

If you close Cubase in that picture, how much memory is Resource Monitor and task manager showing your computer as using?


----------



## Jett Hitt

redlester said:


> Is that 25.49GB displayed in the plugin or in Activity Monitor?
> 
> On mine the plugin showed 11.4GB with all tracks turned on in the Hybrid template.


I hadn't even noticed the info in the plugin, or perhaps I should say "understood." When I looked at that, I only had a few things loaded, and I thought it was showing me the memory usage from just that patch. But it does indeed show 11.5 GB, so @christianhenson is correct (as he should be). However, this is rather misleading because it implies that you could run the whole orchestra with 16 GB. But this isn't the case. Using the template in Logic with Mix 1 requires 25 GB. I saw lots of people expressing delight at the 11.5 GB because they thought that they could run it on their 16 GB laptop. That ain't gonna happen.


----------



## Lady Gaia

Another last-minute purchase here, actively downloading and looking forward to spending time with the library (woodwinds installed over night, percussion coming down while I’m at work, and strings have already started downloading tonight...) As a macOS user, I’m expecting a relatively smooth experience but I’m braced for some early adopter quirks.

I have zero experience composing for a traditional orchestra, though I’ve studied a fair bit of the theory over the years out of curiosity, so I’m planning to put the “anyone can learn” theory to the test. Wish me luck!


----------



## Saigen

mistermister said:


> Thanks- forgive me for being a bit confused, but what exactly is the issue you're having? Before you had said that you couldn't load more than 3gb into Cubase, but you have 10gb loaded in that picture.
> 
> If you close Cubase in that picture, how much memory is Resource Monitor and task manager showing your computer as using?



The issue is being able to load a very limited amount of instruments with nothing but a single mix and low settings prior to running out of RAM, and having it run as a "trial mode'ish" plugin where after 30-40 mins has passed, lots of pops, clicks and distortions begin to flow on playback.

If Cubase is closed, on average it shows my computer is using 1,5gb RAM.


----------



## erikradbo

erikradbo said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> Matti who composed that with BBCSO shared his project files, here is a version I made with CSS/CSB/BWW/HOP for comparison. Bear in mind when comparing that I didn't take the time to redo all the CC data, only some edits where it clearly didn't work. Hope this helps for people wondering about sonic differences.
> 
> 
> 
> What you're hearing:
> Strings: CSS, close mics, some EQ and Exciter, Spaces So.Cal Strings. +CSSS where BBCSO leader patches was used.
> Brass: CSB, ordinary mics, Spaces So.Call Brass
> Winds: BWW Legacy, close mics, So.Cal Winds
> Percussions: HOP, So.cal percussions
> Harp: An Angelic Harp that doesn't sit very well.
> 
> Edit: Added details about libraries used.




Good morning! I tried it with the main mics for all libraries used (CSS/CSB/BWW/HOP/Angelic harp), adjusted the main reverb, placed the harp better and did a little adjusting of the percussions. 



It's better sounding, if not necessarily more cohesive, and compared to BBCSO I'd pick it for many occasions, but it really comes down to sound preferences in the end. What might be lacking in cohesiveness now is down to mainly two things:
- Percussions: Percussions don't fill out the soundscape well here, the HOP sounds a like a late joiner to the party. The BBCSO percussions are said to be one o the great strengths of the library, and the difference is obvious.
- Timing of brass and percussions: Melody lines of brass are a bit skewed due to CSB legato delay, and part of the percussions such as cymbal swells hasn't been perfectly adjusted to the HOP patches.


----------



## redlester

hittjett said:


> I hadn't even noticed the info in the plugin, or perhaps I should say "understood." When I looked at that, I only had a few things loaded, and I thought it was showing me the memory usage from just that patch. But it does indeed show 11.5 GB, so @christianhenson is correct (as he should be). However, this is rather misleading because it implies that you could run the whole orchestra with 16 GB. But this isn't the case. Using the template in Logic with Mix 1 requires 25 GB. I saw lots of people expressing delight at the 11.5 GB because they thought that they could run it on their 16 GB laptop. That ain't gonna happen.



See my posts from a couple of weeks ago regarding my experiences with use on a 16GB machine using the Logic hybrid template (the two previous posts which give details are mentioned in this one)

Short version; you can indeed use it with 16GB but it depends on how you use it. 
https://vi-control.net/community/th...ng”-bbc-symphony-orchestra.84345/post-4450915


----------



## gtrwll

Update improved performance on my setup, it still uses a lot of RAM, but there's something going on under the hood and it never reaches 100% even with a full template loaded. Load times are improved as well, or so it seems. Going to the right direction.


----------



## synkrotron

gtrwll said:


> Update improved performance on my setup, it still uses a lot of RAM, but there's something going on under the hood and it never reaches 100% even with a full template loaded. Load times are improved as well, or so it seems. Going to the right direction.



Hi Janne 

I know you have probably mentioned this before, but with the length of the topic it is hard to search back to find out, what is your workstation and DAW setup?

cheers

andy


----------



## Kiamo

cqd said:


> Yeah..has anyone on windows, using Cubase or Pro tools, without using a wrapper/vepro, got it working correctly?
> 
> Anyone?..


Me nope, yesterday I updated to 1.0.4 but still it's taking around 4 to 5 times more RAM than in the BBCSO indicator shown - with the corresponding load times (from SSD!).
Having a maschine unfortunately limited to 16 GB currently this means max 6 tracks which is ridiculous compared to any other libraries I own.
Maybe it's fine for those having 64 GB.
(And for me in future once I'm willing to take the drag of moving to another machine)

If it took only the amount of RAM as indicated in realitiy - that would be fine for me.


----------



## redlester

hittjett said:


> However, this is rather misleading because it implies that you could run the whole orchestra with 16 GB. But this isn't the case. Using the template in Logic with Mix 1 requires 25 GB. I saw lots of people expressing delight at the 11.5 GB because they thought that they could run it on their 16 GB laptop. That ain't gonna happen.



Further comment on this; watch the template video again, from 7’30” in, with the crucial part being at 9’50”. Christian clearly explains the difference between the plugin memory display and the amount of RAM Logic needs with it all loaded, which he states is 25.25GB. 
Nothing misleading at all.


----------



## chemie262

redlester said:


> Further comment on this; watch the template video again, from 7’30” in, with the crucial part being at 9’50”. Christian clearly explains the difference between the plugin memory display and the amount of RAM Logic needs with it all loaded, which he states is 25.25GB.
> Nothing misleading at all.



But with Win10 and Cubase it eats up close to 128 GB and you still get popouts and cracks...


----------



## barteredbride

Simon Ravn said:


> Sorry but none of this sounds remotely realistic. And I think it really underlines to me what seems to be the libraries biggest shortcoming: The long notes. Andy Blaneys impressive 1st piece rarely lingers on the same note for more than half a second and uses a lot of the short articulations. But when you try to do something slow it falls apart. This is especially true for woodwinds and strings. I haven't heard a single convincing emotional string line. I mean - just 3-4 notes connected that sound good! Christian's official piece also shows this problem. Legato sounds fake/bad and so do many of the sustains in general. And if you do something medium tempo, like you did with the Horner piece, it gets even worse because you get so much suction effect from the built-in (recorded) crescendos that seem to be in everything.
> 
> The shorts sound very good to amazing though! As shown in some videos and Andy Blaneys piece, they can really sound convincing and musical. This goes for woodwinds, strings and brass. And I think, had the brass had more dynamic layers, even the longs would have been very good.




OK, so is this what other people think?


----------



## Sovereign

barteredbride said:


> OK, so is this what other people think?


Well, it is what some think. I would share Simon's view. BBCSO has a lot of shortcomings and I don't see it replacing my default libraries at all at this point. In fact, I'm wondering if I will ever fire it up again anytime soon since it cannot do mockups with the same level of detail my other libraries do.


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

barteredbride said:


> OK, so is this what other people think?


I am quite sure that library would not be my cup of tea since the spitfire video "can anyone create orchestral music". It's exactly what Simon is referring to - on the sustaining articulations the performance captured has to first evolve into its final sound. I don't always recognize such things in a mockup especially (in the example Simon was answering to I surely am noticing what he describes) since you can somewhat wiggle CCs around it. but I dislike the feel when playing with patches like that.


----------



## John R Wilson

Sovereign said:


> Well, it is what some think. I would share Simon's view. BBCSO has a lot of shortcomings and I don't see it replacing my default libraries at all at this point. In fact, I'm wondering if I will ever fire it up again anytime soon since it cannot do mockups with the same level of detail my other libraries do.



What are your go to/default libraries?


----------



## Sovereign

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> What are your go to/default libraries?


CSS, CSB, pretty much everything from Cinesamples, Jaeger, and some additional libraries from performance sampling and Musical Sampling, and a custom library. Those cover the basics for me at this point.


----------



## redlester

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> What are your go to/default libraries?



The Central Manchester library is fabulous.  (sorry)


----------



## styledelk

I made it out the other side without impulse buying. Really, it was because Spitfire didn't get back with my education discount approval in time. 

But I've delighted in hearing so many of these demos.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

And again they focus on sound, not on performance techniques!
Yes, the libraries are different in both performance and sound, and they all sound good enough, so what? There is not much sense from this, for everything is limited only on short and long sustain. Mostly. In other words, everything is just different and for your tasks, something will work better, something worse. But what does it matter if a good legato is out of the question. Legato in all its forms is used in 80% of works, both classical and modern! Really, where is the desire for lively performance? What the hell is this symphonic then?! In *BBSSO*, the legato is hardly audible at all.

The *Sable* came out with their good ones, it should be noted with legato patches with their various types and speed control for transitions from note to note - time has passed. Runs patches for writing fast passages are still the best, leading in their field of *Sable*(now *Spitfire Chamber Strings*). And I'm interested in asking question. What happened to your genius who created and programmed this library? Why is the new libraries so shitty quality control? Why did you remove the handle for legato speed, and indeed, what was the reason for this? Why is there no speed control and types of legato in the new instruments and why are the runs no longer recorded and programmed as it was for *Sable* (*SCS*)? About their ignoring and indifference to the *detache(Repeating Notes)*in general I am silent.
sorry for my french


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> The Central Manchester library is fabulous.  (sorry)


I’ve heard it can be hard to find Good Staccatos 2nd Edition by Prof. Fookedup Memokup.


----------



## synkrotron

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> And again they focus on sound, not on performance techniques!
> Yes, the libraries are different in both performance and sound, and they all sound good enough, so what? There is not much sense from this, for everything is limited only on short and long sustain. Mostly. In other words, everything is just different and for your tasks, something will work better, something worse. But what does it matter if a good legato is out of the question. Legato in all its forms is used in 80% of works, both classical and modern! Really, where is the desire for lively performance? What the hell is this symphonic then?! In *BBSSO*, the legato is hardly audible at all.
> 
> The *Sable* came out with their good ones, it should be noted with legato patches with their various types and speed control for transitions from note to note - time has passed. Runs patches for writing fast passages are still the best, leading in their field of *Sable*(now *Spitfire Chamber Strings*). And I'm interested in asking question. What happened to your genius who created and programmed this library? Why is the new libraries so shitty quality control? Why did you remove the handle for legato speed, and indeed, what was the reason for this? Why is there no speed control and types of legato in the new instruments and why are the runs no longer recorded and programmed as it was for *Sable* (*SCS*)? About their ignoring and indifference to the *detache(Repeating Notes)*in general I am silent.
> sorry for my french



So, you don't like the British Broadcasting Corporation Symphonic Orchestra library then?


----------



## PerryD

Zedcars said:


> I’ve heard it can be hard to find Good Staccatos 2nd Edition by Prof. Fookedup Memokup.


 I am not a fan of Prof. Memokup's work. I bought his book, "Physical Modeling Techniques" for my wife and it did not help her modeling career at all!


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

synkrotron said:


> So, you don't like the British Broadcasting Corporation Symphonic Orchestra library then?


I respect the spitfire team too much to say so directly about this, here on the forum. Still. 🙂
If you want, you'd better ask me about it in private conversation.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

redlester said:


> See my posts from a couple of weeks ago regarding my experiences with use on a 16GB machine using the Logic hybrid template (the two previous posts which give details are mentioned in this one)
> 
> Short version; you can indeed use it with 16GB but it depends on how you use it.
> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/spitfire-audio-“this-is-london-calling”-bbc-symphony-orchestra.84345/post-4450915





redlester said:


> Further comment on this; watch the template video again, from 7’30” in, with the crucial part being at 9’50”. Christian clearly explains the difference between the plugin memory display and the amount of RAM Logic needs with it all loaded, which he states is 25.25GB.
> Nothing misleading at all.




And this is the critical key to loading instances, he clearly explains this (as you mentioned). Once you load an instance, simply remove (trash) all of the other articulations. After he did this for the entire trailer template, it was well under 2GB in the player, and 7.5 GB for the whole Logic session. This is exactly how I have set up my first template, and I can now load quite a bit.


----------



## Alex Fraser

PC performance issues aside, I think some folk have lost perspective on what BBCSO is.

Remember, it's the _complete_ orchestra. Plus solo strings. Plus a couple of instruments yet to come. Plus a million mic options. For around £700 at the sale price. Yes - other products have more dynamic layers, adjustments, round robins etc, but they also cost a _lot_ more. Take your pick, etc.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Alex Fraser said:


> PC performance issues aside, I think some folk have lost perspective on what BBCSO is.
> 
> Remember, it's the _complete_ orchestra. Plus solo strings. Plus a couple of instruments yet to come. Plus a million mic options. For around £700 at the sale price. Yes - other products have more dynamic layers, adjustments, round robins etc, but they also cost a _lot_ more. Take your pick, etc.



Actually, it has somewhat now become my "bread and butter" orchestral library. I just find it so easy to use, and it's very well balanced out of the box. Heaven forbid, I actually don't mind the reverb either.


----------



## jamwerks

VinRice said:


> Oh good man Igor! I wasn't aware of that quote. I absolutely HATE Bruckner. I've hated his work since I was about six years old.


Ouch, if after listening to Bruckner #9, you aren't totally moved and in awe…


----------



## Sovereign

Alex Fraser said:


> PC performance issues aside, I think some folk have lost perspective on what BBCSO is.
> 
> Remember, it's the _complete_ orchestra. Plus solo strings. Plus a couple of instruments yet to come. Plus a million mic options. For around £700 at the sale price. Yes - other products have more dynamic layers, adjustments, round robins etc, but they also cost a _lot_ more. Take your pick, etc.


Cinematic Studio Strings and Brass cost me $399+279 = 678. I'm expecting Woodwinds will cost the same, bringing total costs to $957. You might argue BBCSO has percussion, which is true but the Cinematic Studio collection will not "cost a lot more" than BBCSO's default pricing and it will sound IMO way way better. And it's not so much that "other products have more dynamic layers", but the fact that BBCSO has for all intents and purposes only two, which I consider to be pretty much useless. At best BBCSO would be a sketch pad. But that's not what I wanted and neither what I expected it to be. YMMV.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Sovereign said:


> Cinematic Studio Strings and Brass cost me $399+279 = 678. I'm expecting Woodwinds will cost the same, bringing total costs to $957. You might argue BBCSO has percussion, which is true but the Cinematic Studio collection will not "cost a lot more" than BBCSO's default pricing and it will sound IMO way way better. And it's not so much that "other products have more dynamic layers", but the fact that BBCSO has for all intents and purposes only two, which I consider to be pretty much useless. At best BBCSO would be a sketch pad. But that's not what I wanted and neither what I expected it to be. YMMV.


That's your call, but BBCSO and CSS etc differ in some fairly fundamental ways to make a "verses" argument moot. Consider the price of SSO, Berlin etc.


----------



## gtrwll

synkrotron said:


> Hi Janne
> 
> I know you have probably mentioned this before, but with the length of the topic it is hard to search back to find out, what is your workstation and DAW setup?
> 
> cheers
> 
> andy



I'm on W10, Ryzen 7 1700 (a bit overclocked) with 32GB 2400mhz RAM, running the library from a SSD.




Sovereign said:


> Cinematic Studio Strings and Brass cost me $399+279 = 678. I'm expecting Woodwinds will cost the same, bringing total costs to $957. You might argue BBCSO has percussion, which is true but the Cinematic Studio collection will not "cost a lot more" than BBCSO's default pricing and it will sound IMO way way better.



A small detail, but add CSSS to that.


----------



## Alex Fraser

gtrwll said:


> A small detail, but add CSSS to that.


And CSP..


----------



## Loïc D

Alex Fraser said:


> And CSP..


And you still don’t have harps & chromatic percussions.
Aaaaaand no sleighbells.


----------



## Jett Hitt

redlester said:


> Further comment on this; watch the template video again, from 7’30” in, with the crucial part being at 9’50”. Christian clearly explains the difference between the plugin memory display and the amount of RAM Logic needs with it all loaded, which he states is 25.25GB.
> Nothing misleading at all.



Yep, you're right. @christianhenson states it all right here in this video. Now all I have to do is remember what someone said in an arbitrarily titled video that I saw two months ago--a video on a personal page nonetheless. Even mentioning the 11.5 GB is misleading. It is not a real number that conveys any meaning. The only number that matters is the one that tells me how much total RAM it takes to run this library in my DAW. This 11.5 figure led to endless confusion because I saw many people quoting it and questioning how a complete orchestral library could really be that small. I knew that number wasn't real when I saw it, but others didn't--especially those who heard it from someone else who read it about on a forum about porn music somewhere on the interwebs. I mean seriously, if you were just a casual Spitfire user, would it really occur to you to ask, "Hey, I wonder if one of the founding members of Spitfire has a personal youtube page where he gives additional information about Spitfire products that isn't found on the official page?"


----------



## dzilizzi

LowweeK said:


> And you still don’t have harps & chromatic percussions.
> Aaaaaand no sleighbells.


Let's put it into perspective. The sleighbells are the important part. 

But really. I have SSO, BWW, and HO Diamond. No CS, at least not yet. Never say never with me. What attracts me to BBCSO is not the dynamic layers, etc... it is the sound and the cohesiveness. And I totally get if you are great at putting everything into a space and balancing it, you may not need BBCSO. As separate instruments, it is not a great library. It is good, but definitely not great. It is supposed to be used together. 

I did find Paul's comparison of the bespoked, SSS, & BBC strings to be interesting. At points they all sounded synthy. Not always. Just depending on how they were played. And I think CSS sounds synthy at times. Frankly, I saw a viola and harp video that someone posted and the single viola sounded synthy to me. 

Anyway, if you did buy it, I hope you eventually are able to find something good about it. I've been feeling I wasted money buying Project Sam's stuff in last years' NI sale, but I recently combined two patches in a project for school that sounds perfect. Separately, they didn't work. Together, they were perfect and I'm starting to be happy I have the instruments.


----------



## Robert Casal

erikradbo said:


> Good morning! I tried it with the main mics for all libraries used (CSS/CSB/BWW/HOP/Angelic harp), adjusted the main reverb, placed the harp better and did a little adjusting of the percussions.
> 
> 
> 
> It's better sounding, if not necessarily more cohesive, and compared to BBCSO I'd pick it for many occasions, but it really comes down to sound preferences in the end. What might be lacking in cohesiveness now is down to mainly two things:
> - Percussions: Percussions don't fill out the soundscape well here, the HOP sounds a like a late joiner to the party. The BBCSO percussions are said to be one o the great strengths of the library, and the difference is obvious.
> - Timing of brass and percussions: Melody lines of brass are a bit skewed due to CSB legato delay, and part of the percussions such as cymbal swells hasn't been perfectly adjusted to the HOP patches.




Hey, I love the sound you got. What verb and mics are you using on CSS and CSB?


----------



## Alex Fraser

hittjett said:


> Yep, you're right. @christianhenson states it all right here in this video. Now all I have to do is remember what someone said in an arbitrarily titled video that I saw two months ago--a video on a personal page nonetheless. Even mentioning the 11.5 GB is misleading. It is not a real number that conveys any meaning. The only number that matters is the one that tells me how much total RAM it takes to run this library in my DAW. This 11.5 figure led to endless confusion because I saw many people quoting it and questioning how a complete orchestral library could really be that small. I knew that number wasn't real when I saw it, but others didn't--especially those who heard it from someone else who read it about on a forum about porn music somewhere on the interwebs. I mean seriously, if you were just a casual Spitfire user, would it really occur to you to ask, "Hey, I wonder if one of the founding members of Spitfire has a personal youtube page where he gives additional information about Spitfire products that isn't found on the official page?"


Bit ranty. 

The absolute figures are pretty meaningless IMO. Few computers in existence can run the library with all instruments, mics and articulations loaded. The plugin gives enough options to craft a setup suitable for any system. Couple that with dynamic plugin loading (Logic and Cubase) and most people should be able to find a way to work with the library? I don't get the drama.


----------



## paulthomson

hittjett said:


> Yep, you're right. @christianhenson states it all right here in this video. Now all I have to do is remember what someone said in an arbitrarily titled video that I saw two months ago--a video on a personal page nonetheless. Even mentioning the 11.5 GB is misleading. It is not a real number that conveys any meaning. The only number that matters is the one that tells me how much total RAM it takes to run this library in my DAW. This 11.5 figure led to endless confusion because I saw many people quoting it and questioning how a complete orchestral library could really be that small. I knew that number wasn't real when I saw it, but others didn't--especially those who heard it from someone else who read it about on a forum about porn music somewhere on the interwebs. I mean seriously, if you were just a casual Spitfire user, would it really occur to you to ask, "Hey, I wonder if one of the founding members of Spitfire has a personal youtube page where he gives additional information about Spitfire products that isn't found on the official page?"



surely you were already watching the video if you wanted to know what the track he was demonstrating used in memory terms?


----------



## Zero&One

Wolfie2112 said:


> Actually, it has somewhat now become my "bread and butter" orchestral library. I just find it so easy to use, and it's very well balanced out of the box. Heaven forbid, I actually don't mind the reverb either.



Me too, I enjoy using it. I look forward to using it. Even when I create a turd, it was an enjoyable experience. I just don't get that with any other libraries I own.
I don't really care if there's 2 or 100 layers, honkin' on the hooters, robins on my rounds... I just want to make music, fast, easy and fun. Ticks all the boxes for moi. And it sounds beautiful


----------



## John R Wilson

christianhenson said:


> This is a rare gem, first time on camera!!! the original Spitfire bespoke range!!!




Interesting to hear the differences between the BBCSO, SSO and the bespoke libraries. Would be good to also hear some comparisons between the legato string patches between these libraries and maybe some comparisons between some of the other instrument groups


----------



## gussunkri

James H said:


> Even when I create a turd, it was an enjoyable experience.


Oi! Too much information!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

James H said:


> Me too, I enjoy using it. I look forward to using it. Even when I create a turd, it was an enjoyable experience. I just don't get that with any other libraries I own.
> I don't really care if there's 2 or 100 layers, honkin' on the hooters, robins on my rounds... I just want to make music, fast, easy and fun. Ticks all the boxes for moi. And it sounds beautiful



And really, my clients aren't going to care (or even notice) about dynamic layers. I certainly can't tell the difference once everything's mixed.


----------



## Noeticus

Composition is far far more important than cohesiveness.

If it is a horrible piece of music, but sounds very cohesive, I could care less.

Many great VST compositions use a mix of instruments from various libraries.

But, for the most part I do like the sound of the BBCSO VST.


----------



## Jett Hitt

paulthomson said:


> surely you were already watching the video if you wanted to know what the track he was demonstrating used in memory terms?


You seem to miss the point. But first, understand that I am not unhappy. I love BBCSO. My system handles it just fine--or at least with MIX 1. I love the sound, and I have said so numerous times in this forum and others. I have repeatedly asked people to be patient while the bugs are worked out.

The problem was touting the 11.5 GB number. It has no meaning. It is very misleading. What would have had meaning would have been to show total RAM usage with everything loaded in Logic, or Cubase, etc. The Page should say, "This is how much RAM you need for Mix 1 in the corresponding DAW." And, "This is how much you need if you want to use all the spill mics." Etc. However, the impression that a lot of people were left with is that they could use the BBCSO template, and it would require 11.5 GB.

All of this is above and beyond the fact that this is a great library. I know of no other library that has ever provided a template or spill mics. I know of no other library that has the same cohesion. When I play individual patches along side my other libraries, they don't seem that special. But when you put them all together, it is magical. One can only hope that you guys continue to expand and improve this library so that it really can become a "Universal Starting Point." You're off to a pretty good start.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

hittjett said:


> One can only hope that you guys continue to expand and improve this library so that it really can become a "Universal Starting Point." You're off to a pretty good start.



Yes, and please invite Jasper Blunk and Alex Wallbank to collaborate to create true Legato😉


----------



## vdk-john

Alex Fraser said:


> And CSP..



And VAT if you live in Europe if I'm not mistaken


----------



## star.keys

All 


Alex Fraser said:


> PC performance issues aside, I think some folk have lost perspective on what BBCSO is.
> 
> Remember, it's the _complete_ orchestra. Plus solo strings. Plus a couple of instruments yet to come. Plus a million mic options. For around £700 at the sale price. Yes - other products have more dynamic layers, adjustments, round robins etc, but they also cost a _lot_ more. Take your pick, etc.


all that blah blah... which doesn’t work on Windows 10/Cubase? What’s the point in buying a £10 library that it doesn’t work?


----------



## gtrwll

vdk-john said:


> And VAT if you live in Europe if I'm not mistaken



This is good to consider as well. Spitfire shows the price with VAT by default, which is better than the other way around. After all, so far I've paid only ~470€ for BBCSO (the taxes are due later 😎).


----------



## Zero&One

star.keys said:


> All
> 
> all that blah blah... which doesn’t work on Windows 10/Cubase? What’s the point in buying a £10 library that it doesn’t work?



Buy a Mac. Become one of us


----------



## Alex Fraser

James H said:


> Buy a Mac. Become one of us


<Tries to grab James’s thread grenade. Fails.>
Better come hide behind the table with me, bud..


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

James H said:


> Buy a Mac. Become one of us


And it will help me to create a mockup of Shostakovich and Tchaikovsky?


----------



## ridgero

Sovereign said:


> Cinematic Studio Strings and Brass cost me $399+279 = 678. I'm expecting Woodwinds will cost the same, bringing total costs to $957. You might argue BBCSO has percussion, which is true but the Cinematic Studio collection will not "cost a lot more" than BBCSO's default pricing and it will sound IMO way way better. And it's not so much that "other products have more dynamic layers", but the fact that BBCSO has for all intents and purposes only two, which I consider to be pretty much useless. At best BBCSO would be a sketch pad. But that's not what I wanted and neither what I expected it to be. YMMV.



+ CSSS, CSP and Percussions


----------



## Alex Fraser

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> And it will help me to create a mockup of Shostakovich and Tchaikovsky?


Yep, the “iShostakovich” app. Not sure about the other one.


----------



## Zedcars

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> And it will help me to create a mockup of Shostakovich and Tchaikovsky?


Shostakovich and Tchaikovsky both used Macs - very underpowered by today’s standards of course.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Yep, the “iShostakovich” app. Not sure about the other one.


Disappointed, and feeling trolled...


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

ridgero said:


> + CSSS, CSP and Percussions


Cinematic Studio Woodwind forgot to mention



Alex Fraser said:


> Yep, the “iShostakovich” app. Not sure about the other one.


It is a pity, because I have special feelings for Tchaikovsky as well.


----------



## Bluemount Score

James H said:


> Buy a Mac. Become one of us


The dark side? Oh hell no, this should have never gone this far


----------



## ridgero

Found that on Youtube, really like that style :D


----------



## Noeticus

I don't even view Macs as PCs. 

HAHHAHAHHA!


----------



## Noeticus

ridgero said:


> Found that on Youtube, really like that style :D




Very very impressive!!! And reminds me a bit of "The Omen".


----------



## ridgero

Noeticus said:


> Very very impressive!!! And reminds me a bit of "The Omen".



It reminds me of Final Fantasy :D


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

ridgero said:


> Found that on Youtube, really like that style :D



Nothing special. I'm not impressed sorry. In its way, it's regular trailer music. This can be created with any other libraries. Of which there is a lot on the market.


----------



## AEF

Well I took the plunge yesterday. Downloaded overnight, no issues, easy setup. 

Working in Logic and while there are a few things Im noting to be fixed overall I'm actually surprised at how much I'm enjoying it. Setting up the template as I go, using the babylonwaves art conductor articulation sets which are brilliant and a must have IMO.

I also find this library blends with other libraries very very well, and takes reverb extremely well. Im very happy so far, despite having serious serious doubts at whether I should purchase. Glad I did.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

AEF said:


> Well I took the plunge yesterday. Downloaded overnight, no issues, easy setup.
> 
> Working in Logic and while there are a few things Im noting to be fixed overall I'm actually surprised at how much I'm enjoying it. Setting up the template as I go, using the babylonwaves art conductor articulation sets which are brilliant and a must have IMO.
> 
> I also find this library blends with other libraries very very well, and takes reverb extremely well. Im very happy so far, despite having serious serious doubts at whether I should purchase. Glad I did.



Nice To hear! And remember to purge articulations you aren't using. I find it blends with EW stuff nicely.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

I found this video of the BBCSO (starts at 13:40). I really like the strings in here, but the library doesn't sound like this. The legatos are too wet and not so smooth... is this the right term? Do wet(ter) libraries always sound wetter than in reality? How can one achieve this exact sound?


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Listening to real things is the right approach and the only one if you are going to achieve real things. But I'm afraid to upset you. With the BBC sampler orchestra, this is almost impossible. To our great regret. 

But I'm sure you can always easily make trailer music with this.😉


----------



## MaxOctane

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Listening to real things is the right approach and the only one if you are going to achieve real things. But I'm afraid to upset you. With the BBC sampler orchestra, this is almost impossible. To our great regret.
> 
> But I'm sure you can always easily make trailer music with this.😉



Such a broad statement ("almost impossible") is really not useful, @Vladimir Bulaev. I've heard some very, very lovely demos in this thread, and @Mattia Chiappa's "Closure" track in a separate thread is fantastic. Yes, the demos suffer occasionally from abrupt sample releases and things like that, so I would agree that 100% realism hasn't been met. But certainly, this library (like several others) has already been shown to accomplish (_close-to_)-convincing results for certain styles of music.

_Edit: I don't own this lib. Will probably pick it up on BF._


----------



## mralmostpopular

AEF said:


> Well I took the plunge yesterday. Downloaded overnight, no issues, easy setup.
> 
> Working in Logic and while there are a few things Im noting to be fixed overall I'm actually surprised at how much I'm enjoying it. Setting up the template as I go, using the babylonwaves art conductor articulation sets which are brilliant and a must have IMO.
> 
> I also find this library blends with other libraries very very well, and takes reverb extremely well. Im very happy so far, despite having serious serious doubts at whether I should purchase. Glad I did.



I decided to order it last night. It’s good to hear more people saying that they enjoy it.

I’ve got some great ensemble libraries and some solo instruments that allow me to do some decent mockups, but it was time for me to grab a full orchestral library. Eventually, I’ll probably pair BBCSO with the Cinematic Studio Libraries (I already own CSSS), but the woodwinds and percussion aren’t out, and I’m sitting around waiting. For $750 intro offer, it’s really a good deal for what you’re getting. It won’t cover everything, but it will become a good starting point for me.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> But I'm sure you can always easily make trailer music with this.😉



On the contrary, I would not using BBCSO for trailer music....if you're referring to that big, epic sound. I'm finding it's more geared towards intimate sounding pieces, or that "classical" sound.


----------



## Scamper

NoamL said:


> Some Bruckner very quickly sketched using *Spitfire Albion 1 *strings + *Albion 3* brass -




Can anybody tell me where this part is from?


----------



## star.keys

So it’s been over 2 days I have raised a very legitimate request for refund. Still no luck.


James H said:


> Buy a Mac. Become one of us


i actually moved away from Mac. Had Mac Pro 128GB 12 core etc, had 3 MacBook Pros . Apple introduced FireWire, then thunderbolt. Then thunderbolt 2, usb3. Never ending tech changes. SSL Nucleus struggles to work through Enternet. My i9 7900x is rock solid...


----------



## ZeeCount

Scamper said:


> Can anybody tell me where this part is from?



It's the opening of the fourth movement of his 8th Symphony:


----------



## NoamL

Scamper said:


> Can anybody tell me where this part is from?



Bruckner Symphony #8 Mvt 4


----------



## Noeticus

Ahead.... the dreaded post known only as "Post 7000".

Nooooooooooo!


----------



## 5Lives

Too bad they didn’t release the loading improvement updates this week as they said earlier in the week. Curious to know how that improves things. I’m sure they’re just as eager to get it out there as early adopters are.


----------



## CT

Here's a little work in progress. This is the first (and absolutely last) time that I've put robotic MIDI into a DAW and tried to massage a real performance out of it, so please, for the love of God, don't listen to this and conclude BBCSO CAN'T DO X Y OR Z BLAHHHHH! As soon as I have time, I'd like to properly perform it in. I don't know how anyone can do it this way....

Anyway, I had intended to orchestrate these Bach pieces this Christmas season, and Christian's adventures in orchestration spurred me along to actually do it. I hope that some of you enjoy it, and that those of you who have already written off BBCSO can find further justification for your skepticism here, so everyone benefits.


----------



## AEF

Is there any way to remove the staccato overlay in the legato patches? Its extremely annoying to try to play actual legato lines with it.


----------



## Saigen

AEF said:


> Is there any way to remove the staccato overlay in the legato patches? Its extremely annoying to try to play actual legato lines with it.


Low velocity


----------



## AEF

Saigen said:


> Low velocity



except then you end up in portamento land. also, its natural as a piano player to play with increasing pressure as you play more expressively and ride the mod wheel. it makes the idea of a “performance patch” absolutely useless.

just give me the legato by itself there are already lovely shorts if i need them.


----------



## mralmostpopular

AEF said:


> Is there any way to remove the staccato overlay in the legato patches? Its extremely annoying to try to play actual legato lines with it.



This seems like a good feature request that should be easy to implement. It could just be an on/off switch like the marcato patch in CSSS.


----------



## Saigen

AEF said:


> except then you end up in portamento land. also, its natural as a piano player to play with increasing pressure as you play more expressively and ride the mod wheel. it makes the idea of a “performance patch” absolutely useless.
> 
> just give me the legato by itself there are already lovely shorts if i need them.


If you have the first note set to low velocity and the rest at higher, you get no portamento.


----------



## erikradbo

Robert Casal said:


> Hey, I love the sound you got. What verb and mics are you using on CSS and CSB?



Hi Robert! Check out the post with the first version I posted with this piece, in this thread or in the Closure thread in members composition, and you'll have everything you need.


----------



## redlester

hittjett said:


> The problem was touting the 11.5 GB number. It has no meaning. It is very misleading. What would have had meaning would have been to show total RAM usage with everything loaded in Logic, or Cubase, etc. The Page should say, "This is how much RAM you need for Mix 1 in the corresponding DAW." And, "This is how much you need if you want to use all the spill mics." Etc. However, the impression that a lot of people were left with is that they could use the BBCSO template, and it would require 11.5 GB.



The only reason I chimed in on this was because you mentioned people with 16GB being misled. Clearly we are on different wavelengths on this, but just to clarify again;

There was no "touting" of any figures. The 11.5 became a "thing" because it was the answer to a competition set where someone won a free copy of the library. I think that's fantastic, but a cynic may see it as more evil marketing. The total RAM usage WAS shown in the video - the same video that the 11.5GB came from, and merely seconds later.

As for The Page, well yes point taken however the minimum specifications are stated on the BBC SO product page, which I would expect anyone however out of the loop they are to read before spending all that money. For Mac it says minimum 16GB. I'm using it with that and am very happy with it. Where I will concede a point is that the minimum Windows spec does not mention RAM requirements, and we know that for some (many?) users that's the main issue with it.


----------



## Cormast

Hi everyone !

I've try everything about the plugin specs, but I can't get BBCSO to work proprely on my computer : i7-6700k (quad-core 4.0GHz 8 threads) / 54 Go RAM / CUBASE 10 / Win 10 / Komplete Audio 6 / NVidia GTX 970 / motherboard : Z170A plus pro.

So I was wondering if I should upgrade my hardware and if doing so would solve my problems. More powerfull processor (Ryzen 9) / More RAM -> 64Go / Maybe change NVidia card to AMD if it creates some drivers problems... (Desactivate Nvidia drivers make it worse for me)

Peoples who runs BBCSO without any troubles, can I have a return on your set up to check if my hardware is really the problem  

Thank you for reading and have a nice day !


----------



## ridgero

Cormast said:


> Hi everyone !
> 
> I've try everything about the plugin specs, but I can't get BBCSO to work proprely on my computer : i7-6700k (quad-core 4.0GHz 8 threads) / 54 Go RAM / CUBASE 10 / Win 10 / Komplete Audio 6 / NVidia GTX 970 / motherboard : Z170A plus pro.
> 
> So I was wondering if I should upgrade my hardware and if doing so would solve my problems. More powerfull processor (Ryzen 9) / More RAM -> 64Go / Maybe change NVidia card to AMD if it creates some drivers problems... (Desactivate Nvidia drivers make it worse for me)
> 
> Peoples who runs BBCSO without any troubles, can I have a return on your set up to check if my hardware is really the problem
> 
> Thank you for reading and have a nice day !



What do you mean exactly with „I can't get BBCSO to work proprely on my computer“?

Does it freeze, does it lag, does it max out the CPU etc...?


----------



## Cormast

ridgero said:


> What do you mean exactly with „I can't get BBCSO to work proprely on my computer“?
> 
> Does it freeze, does it lag, does it max out the CPU etc...?


Freezes and pops while trying to play with several patches (Long for example, sometime only one). No processor saturated. No RAM saturated. But Buffer drop-outs. (Only with one mic position loaded)


----------



## Zero&One

Cormast said:


> So I was wondering if I should upgrade my hardware and if doing so would solve my problems.



No, there are reported issues on Windows. Raise a support ticket


----------



## cqd

Hi Cormast..I asked a bit earlier, and it doesn't seem anyone has it running well on Windows,..
If you have a vepro, or bluecat patchwork, to wrap it, it might run better..Maschine might nearly work too I reckon..
And try these settings..
Preload size: 6144
Stream Buffer Size: 8192
Maximum Pitch Voices: 12


----------



## cqd

Or these..

Preload size: 14000
Stream buffer: 16348
Maximum Pitch Voices: 8


----------



## Cormast

James H said:


> No, there are reported issues on Windows. Raise a support ticket


I did it, thank you !


----------



## Cormast

cqd said:


> Or these..
> 
> Preload size: 14000
> Stream buffer: 16348
> Maximum Pitch Voices: 8


I did that already but will retry tonight. Thank you !


----------



## redlester

Logic users using the Hybrid template...

You may be aware that if you want to use the articulation sets which are aligned with the default setup of the plugin, these will not work with the template, because the powered-down instances of the plugin on the vast majority of tracks have the key switches messed up and completely different to the default versions.

I have been exploring creating a version of the articulation set customised for the template keyswitch locations, but have now realised the best way to tackle this is to go through the template and remove each instance of the plugin, and replace it with the default patch for the instrument, delete the articulations not required for that track, power it down and save. I think this is going to be the best way of dealing with it. Laborious task for a day when not feeling inspired, but once its done that should be it.

It's bizarre how they are so mixed up, and Christian even says to Jake on the template video how they are in fixed positions, but somehow they've been totally banjaxed. Some of the plugin instances in the Strings section of the template don't actually have any key switches allocated at all!


----------



## Benjamin Duk

cqd said:


> Or these..
> 
> Preload size: 14000
> Stream buffer: 16348
> Maximum Pitch Voices: 8



Changes these settings to these values will put more strain on the cpu. It will cause even more severe pops and crackles. 

Bottom line is the plugin needs to be written in a better way. If Kontakt can handle more instances on lower systems then it is a fault of the player and not the playback system.


----------



## cqd

Cormast said:


> I did that already but will retry tonight. Thank you !



Yeah, if you have anything you could wrap it in that will probably help more so than anything else..the ram and CPU usage is just all over the place without it..


----------



## cqd

Benjamin Duk said:


> Changes these settings to these values will put more strain on the cpu. It will cause even more severe pops and crackles.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> I got these settings from spitfire support.. I'd try the other ones first..


----------



## Patrick.K

dzilizzi said:


> What attracts me to BBCSO is not the dynamic layers, etc... it is the sound and the cohesiveness


Me too, that's what attracts me too.
But,for the mic positions ... it's way too much, and who will really use them, apart from those who have a powerful machine, but everyone does not have an IMac pro ... since it has not not seem to work well on a pc ?.

I always ask the question for two weeks because I do not have a quality orchestral library.
If I rely on the different opinions, especially those who bought BBCSO (not all), it seems that there is a lot of disappointment about the quality or playability of the instruments ... but I'm wrong maybe because I heard some nice demos!

So in doubt, it may be better for me to invest in safe values, and goodbye this famous cohesion and simplification, 
It will have to play with an external reverb, pan, Eq etc ...

So I'm going to invest starting from the base, and build little by little with proven choices.
The only quality libraries I own are Jody Burgess percussion, a legato patch from ConMoto B violins, and an American Ivory piano D.
It's a good start, but I miss all the rest, namely the violins, the brass, and the winds.
But what to choose ?.

BBCSO would have been so good, but after reading over 6500 thread's, I'm completely lost !.

And during this time, I feel guilty by crossing in the street, the eyes from a wandering man
We really ask ourselves big existential questions !


----------



## Zero&One

Patrick9152 said:


> But,for the mic positions ... it's way too much, and who will really use them, apart from those who have a powerful machine, but everyone does not have an IMac pro ... since it has not not seem to work well on a pc ?.



They do make a huge difference though. I revisited a recent piece and changed the mics and the results were vastly different, for this thing at least. I normally don't bother with other SA stuff too much, so I can see where someone would think these are excess. But in reality they aren't. And I'm on 2009 hardware.



Patrick9152 said:


> But what to choose ?.
> 
> BBCSO would have been so good, but after reading over 6500 thread's, I'm completely lost !.



That's the problem these days...
I want a new Sony BooHovia 50" TV. The worst place to go is review sites, as I will scroll past the 484 positive reviews and focus on the 8 bad ones. I'll then convince myself that the pixel depth doesn't compare with Samsung's or the contrast ratio will ruin my Friends boxset experience.
If 484 people said it was poo poo then that's a different story...


----------



## Zero&One

redlester said:


> I have been exploring creating a version of the articulation set customised for the template keyswitch locations, but have now realised the best way to tackle this is to go through the template and remove each instance of the plugin, and replace it with the default patch for the instrument, delete the articulations not required for that track, power it down and save. I think this is going to be the best way of dealing with it. Laborious task for a day when not feeling inspired, but once its done that should be it.



My thoughts too. Isn't there any logic guru's know of a way to tweak a project to override these to default? My heart sinks at the thought of starting this.


----------



## Kiamo

redlester said:


> The only reason I chimed in on this was because you mentioned people with 16GB being misled. Clearly we are on different wavelengths on this, but just to clarify again;
> 
> There was no "touting" of any figures. The 11.5 became a "thing" because it was the answer to a competition set where someone won a free copy of the library. I think that's fantastic, but a cynic may see it as more evil marketing. The total RAM usage WAS shown in the video - the same video that the 11.5GB came from, and merely seconds later.
> 
> As for The Page, well yes point taken however the minimum specifications are stated on the BBC SO product page, which I would expect anyone however out of the loop they are to read before spending all that money. For Mac it says minimum 16GB. I'm using it with that and am very happy with it. Where I will concede a point is that the minimum Windows spec does not mention RAM requirements, and we know that for some (many?) users that's the main issue with it.



For Mac it says minimum 8 GB recommended 16 GB.
Which let me think Windows would not be so far away but that was wrong thinking.
My personal impression: Windows minimum 32 GB recommended 64 GB


----------



## Patrick.K

James H said:


> That's the problem these days...
> I want a new Sony BooHovia 50" TV. The worst place to go is review sites, as I will scroll past the 484 positive reviews and focus on the 8 bad ones. I'll then convince myself that the pixel depth doesn't compare with Samsung's or the contrast ratio will ruin my Friends boxset experience.
> If 484 people said it was poo poo then that's a different story...



We totally agree !.


----------



## Patrick.K

Zedcars said:


> Shostakovich and Tchaikovsky both used Macs - very underpowered by today’s standards of course.


Do not forget Wolfgang Amadeus who implored his father to buy the new IMac Pro ...


----------



## redlester

James H said:


> My thoughts too. Isn't there any logic guru's know of a way to tweak a project to override these to default? My heart sinks at the thought of starting this.



I just had an exchange on Twitter with Christian where he explained why this has happened, and makes reference to updating the template.


----------



## Patrick.K

mralmostpopular said:


> I decided to order it last night. It’s good to hear more people saying that they enjoy it.
> 
> I’ve got some great ensemble libraries and some solo instruments that allow me to do some decent mockups, but it was time for me to grab a full orchestral library. Eventually, I’ll probably pair BBCSO with the Cinematic Studio Libraries (I already own CSSS), but the woodwinds and percussion aren’t out, and I’m sitting around waiting. For $750 intro offer, it’s really a good deal for what you’re getting. It won’t cover everything, but it will become a good starting point for me.



It's nice to hear finally!


----------



## mikeh-375

Shakespeare wrote Macbeth with Apple....... and the fella Ernst worked out the speed of sound on a Mach.....oh dear...I blame @Zedcars


----------



## Zero&One

redlester said:


> I just had an exchange on Twitter with Christian where he explained why this has happened, and makes reference to updating the template.



That makes sense, would be fantastic if that fixes it.
I did notice their beta version also had the Mix1 & Mix2 at the far right of the mic list originally. So there's hope!
Keep us posted if you hear anything please? I'm not a Twooter


----------



## Jett Hitt

Kiamo said:


> For Mac it says minimum 8 GB recommended 16 GB.
> Which let me think Windows would not be so far away but that was wrong thinking.
> My personal impression: Windows minimum 32 GB recommended 64 GB



@redlester This is the part that I should have mentioned but didn't. The implication is that you can use the library in a skeletal form with 8GB and the full library with 16GB. I don't know how you could interpret this in any other way. I am running 64GB, so it doesn't really affect me personally, but it seems to me that there is a bit of hoodwinking going on here. The fact that they don't even mention the RAM requirements for PC tells you that they absolutely knew there were problems when they went to market. It is the old Microsoft approach: Sell it now, fix it later (or not). It has shaken my faith in Spitfire. Is that cynical? Or is it just the yoke of experience?


----------



## Patrick.K

It's very quiet right now at Spitfire ... No new video, no one is exited, where is Paul?


----------



## dzilizzi

Patrick9152 said:


> It's very quiet right now at Spitfire ... No new video, no one is exited, where is Paul?


Taking a well earned vacation before the holiday rush? Or maybe doing some film/TV work to support the next round of fixes.....


----------



## redlester

hittjett said:


> @redlester This is the part that I should have mentioned but didn't. The implication is that you can use the library in a skeletal form with 8GB and the full library with 16GB. I don't know how you could interpret this in any other way. I am running 64GB, so it doesn't really affect me personally, but it seems to me that there is a bit of hoodwinking going on here. The fact that they don't even mention the RAM requirements for PC tells you that they absolutely knew there were problems when they went to market. It is the old Microsoft approach: Sell it now, fix it later (or not). It has shaken my faith in Spitfire. Is that cynical? Or is it just the yoke of experience?



Not sure what you mean by “use the full library” with 16GB? Do you mean have all instruments turned on at once? 
It would never occur to me for a moment that anyone would even begin to think that possible with 16GB. Perhaps that’s why I didn’t feel hoodwinked.


----------



## PerryD

I like the sound and results of using BBCSO. I'm on a Win 10 system and don't have any regrets in purchasing. I doubled my ram to 64gb for this library. I'm sure upcoming fixes will make me feel even better. An interesting side effect for me...I revisted my other libraries looking for ff contrast. I don't do trailer music. Ha! I did kind of a throwback Star Trek TV cue just for fun. I don't usually write in this style, so BBCSO indirectly helped me appreciate my other tools and think in a new way. "A starting point"  Sorry, no BBCSO in this one minute cue at all.


----------



## Saigen

I'll be getting a 128gb RAM Mac Pro 5,1 setup shortly. That way I won't have to be angry at the Windows VST3 and VST2 anymore.

Can't wait to hear what this will sound like (current has some pretty half-assed modulations going on but still sounds fantastic to my ears) with choirs added and proper percussion.




This one for contrast:



And original:


----------



## Jett Hitt

redlester said:


> Not sure what you mean by “use the full library” with 16GB? Do you mean have all instruments turned on at once?
> It would never occur to me for a moment that anyone would even begin to think that possible with 16GB. Perhaps that’s why I didn’t feel hoodwinked.


I don't personally feel hoodwinked either because I never believed the numbers from the onset, but I saw a lot of googly-eyed comments from people who thought they were going to run this library on their gerbil-powered laptop.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Saigen said:


> I'll be getting a 128gb RAM Mac Pro 5,1 setup shortly. That way I won't have to be angry at the Windows VST3 and VST2 anymore.
> 
> Can't wait to hear what this will sound like (current has some pretty half-assed modulations going on but still sounds fantastic to my ears) with choirs added and proper percussion.
> 
> And original:




A lot of great sounds there! I am running a 5,1 12 core 64GB. There are some upgrade options still available to me, but I probably won't add them until it is necessary. You are probably aware of this, but if not, Apple has abandoned the 5,1s. Catalina won't run on it without some serious hacking. (Actually, rumor has it that Catalina doesn't run well on much of anything. Don't know, haven't tried.) In fact, the 5,1 won't even run Mohave unless you upgrade the GPU. So be aware that there are some upgrade costs that will be necessary in the not so distant future. In its original state, the 5,1 probably has 2 years of life left in it before upgrades are necessary. You'll then get another year by upgrading the GPU. Thereafter is anyone's guess. I will keep mine going as long as possible because I just can't get excited about $6k for an entry-level pro model.


----------



## Robert Casal

erikradbo said:


> Hi Robert! Check out the post with the first version I posted with this piece, in this thread or in the Closure thread in members composition, and you'll have everything you need.


Thank you! Going to fiddle with my template now. 🙂


----------



## Iostream

cqd said:


> Hi Cormast..I asked a bit earlier, and it doesn't seem anyone has it running well on Windows,..
> If you have a vepro, or bluecat patchwork, to wrap it, it might run better..Maschine might nearly work too I reckon..


I would recommend against Maschine for this purpose. It is heavier weight than Komplete Kontrol, and loading a version of the hybrid template with every instance in Komplete Kontrol adds about 30% to the total system CPU usage on an i9 9700K. (not Spitfire's fault, I don't think Komplete Kontrol had 100+ instances in mind)


----------



## redlester

Patrick9152 said:


> It's very quiet right now at Spitfire ... No new video, no one is exited, where is Paul?



The Spitfire channel has been fairly quiet, but Paul himself has released I think three videos in the past week. Which is bordering on hysteria rather than excitement by his standards!


----------



## Saigen

hittjett said:


> A lot of great sounds there! I am running a 5,1 12 core 64GB. There are some upgrade options still available to me, but I probably won't add them until it is necessary. You are probably aware of this, but if not, Apple has abandoned the 5,1s. Catalina won't run on it without some serious hacking. (Actually, rumor has it that Catalina doesn't run well on much of anything. Don't know, haven't tried.) In fact, the 5,1 won't even run Mohave unless you upgrade the GPU. So be aware that there are some upgrade costs that will be necessary in the not so distant future. In its original state, the 5,1 probably has 2 years of life left in it before upgrades are necessary. You'll then get another year by upgrading the GPU. Thereafter is anyone's guess. I will keep mine going as long as possible because I just can't get excited about $6k for an entry-level pro model.



Cheers for the heads up! 
Fortunately, the Mac will have Mojave pre-installed since it's a GeForce GTX 680 which supports it.
I've heard that the 2010-2012 models have the best longevity. Is this not the case at all? :o


----------



## Jett Hitt

Saigen said:


> Cheers for the heads up!
> Fortunately, the Mac will have Mojave pre-installed since it's a GeForce GTX 680 which supports it.
> I've heard that the 2010-2012 models have the best longevity. Is this not the case at all? :o


Oh, I think that it is very much the case. In fact, I think that Apple is annoyed at the longevity of this machine, and that's why they are dropping support. The trash can that followed this machine was a heat generating disaster and wasn't really upgradeable. (Mind you, I know a number of people who are using it very successfully.) It's great that you found one with a metal card already installed. I think you'll be very happy with it as long as you're comfortable with the Mac OS. The trick down the road to keep it going will probably be to rely on someone like dosdude, who makes patches for older Macs to run the latest stuff. Everything is working for me under High Sierra, so I haven't even upgraded my GPU. I am sure there is an RX580 in my future, though. The big problem comes when Logic will no longer run on an unsupported machine.


----------



## gtrwll

FWIW, here's a screenshot of my current project with most of the instruments loaded (the piano is The Grandeur). Using Mix1 and Fl. Spill mics on all channels, removed a few articulations I seldom use. 24GB total memory used at task manager. Playback is fine, so it's definitely a great improvement from 1.0.0, at least on my system.


----------



## John R Wilson

PerryD said:


> I like the sound and results of using BBCSO. I'm on a Win 10 system and don't have any regrets in purchasing. I doubled my ram to 64gb for this library. I'm sure upcoming fixes will make me feel even better. An interesting side effect for me...I revisted my other libraries looking for ff contrast. I don't do trailer music. Ha! I did kind of a throwback Star Trek TV cue just for fun. I don't usually write in this style, so BBCSO indirectly helped me appreciate my other tools and think in a new way. "A starting point"  Sorry, no BBCSO in this one minute cue at all.




Your piece sounds very good, got a great sound. What libaries did you use in this 1 minute cue? How you finding BBCSO overall in comparison to your other libaries?


----------



## AEF

As a follow up to the Legatos and the spiccato overlays.

It's clearly a programming issue with the velocity triggers. You get the overlay with all velocities above 10. Should be more like above 60 to be useable.


----------



## PerryD

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Your piece sounds very good, got a great sound. What libaries did you use in this 1 minute cue? How you finding BBCSO overall in comparison to your other libaries?


 Thanks. Mostly Cinematic libraries. CSB, CSS, Samplemodeling brass, BFD orch percussion, Cinewinds. I consider BBCSO to be a more gentle sounding orchestra that sounds very cohesive. Individual instruments are not outstanding but the results of the whole are uniquely good.


----------



## PerryD

I'm sure it's been mentioned elsewhere. A large template sometimes hangs Studio One 4.5.4 (Win 10 64gb) upon closing a session. it's odd to me that when S1 is ended in task manager, there still appears to be remnants of BBCSO in memory. If I open a fresh session of S1, an instance of BBCSO will open almost instantly. (?) I reported this to SA support. I hope 1.0.5 offers a fix. Being patient, like everyone else.


----------



## andyhy

I'm following your postings especially because, when I'm eventually up and running, I will have a similar system spec to you. Mine will be AMD Ryzen 7, 32GB RAM, Win 10, BBCSO running on a dedicated external 1T Sabrent Rocket Nano connected via USB C. I've removed all unecessary Win 10 bloatware, stopped unwanted startup and background apps and installed XMeters to monitor system perormance. As you can tell I'm a newbie with much to learn from others in this forum. I know I'm taking a big gamble on the BBCSO but I love the sound and will make the most of my limited system spec.


----------



## MaxOctane

A mod should re-title this thread to: "Assortment of Win10 specs (also, new Spitfire lib)"


----------



## Lady Gaia

The last section of the download completed last night, and everything is running well from a 2TB Samsung T5 SSD on my MacBook Pro. It will be a while before I can put in some serious time with it (I had been angling to work on a review, but I'll be tackling another project in the short term and taking my time getting deep into BBCSO in spare moments.) So far, so good. I look forward to seeing what changes and additions are planned.

One open question for me was how best to handle articulation switches and how easy it would be to set up continuous controls to ride expression and dynamics. In practice? It's almost like the Kurzweil Forte was made for it. One custom multi, a little tweaking in BBCSO with some quick MIDI learn configuration, and now the Forte's sliders control every continuously adjustable parameter, and the switches above them send the necessary key switch triggers. Nice. I'm very happy with how that's all shaping up.


----------



## John R Wilson

Not a great start my end. Been downloading the BBCSO for the past 2 days. The download was almost complete and then the bloody spitfire app crashed and now when I log back in all libraries have disappeared and its just saying "you do not have any products". Any one else had this problem before?

Edit: Ignore my post above after re-installing 3 times the library seems to have reappeared.


----------



## redlester

redlester said:


> I just tried those same settings on mine, and for the full version of Christian's Trois Gnossiennes it plays on my humble 2.3GHz i7 16GB almost without a glitch, just a couple of missing notes on first run through, which were OK at next play though.
> 
> At those settings from @haus.media, once fully loaded I get 2.77GB displayed on the plugin, and 9.77GB Memory Used in Activity Monitor.
> 
> My biggest issue remains the load times. It took 19 minutes for the project to load (from HDD) before the plugin stopped flashing at me. I will be interested to check this again in a few days when the 4TB SSD that I've ordered arrives.



As a guide for anyone else still using HDD, I finally got my new SSD up and running tonight. A Samsung 860 Evo via a StarTech docking station (which has USB 3.1 Gen2 but is operating as USB 3.0 until I upgrade my computer). This reduced the loading time to end of flashing on the plugin for Christian's Trois Gnossiennes from 19 minutes via HDD to 3 minutes via SSD. I still need to try tweaking the plugin settings now I have a faster disc drive so it may or may not improve more.


----------



## Noeticus

At this point I'm not too sure if 6682 posts about the Spitfire BBCSO Library and chocolate etc. is a good thing?

Yeah, what the heck, sure, it's all good, righty right.


----------



## Fleer

Best thread ever


----------



## Guffy

Is anyone else getting audio glitches if loading multiple mics and stacking articulations? Might just be something weird going on with my system..


----------



## Zero&One

Guffy said:


> Is anyone else getting audio glitches if loading multiple mics and stacking articulations? Might just be something weird going on with my system..



I did originally, but tweaks to the pre load etc sorted that out.
It's buried way back in the thread, but maybe search 'buffer' for some examples.
On Mac btw

Edit:
Save you the hassle, and bump this gem back up





__





Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


Here's the same track with all instruments changed to Mix 2. Didn't expect it to differ this much! Thank you for taking the time to do this! I tried to compensate for the difference in volume, but even so the difference was massive. I have been liking mix 1 a lot, but I must say, after...



vi-control.net


----------



## robgb

Surprised to see composers blasting BBCSO on a Facebook group I'm in. My enthusiasm for the library has waned considerably.


----------



## ridgero

Guffy said:


> Is anyone else getting audio glitches if loading multiple mics and stacking articulations? Might just be something weird going on with my system..



Increasing the Buffer Size & voices in the BBC plugin can help.


----------



## redlester

robgb said:


> Surprised to see composers blasting BBCSO on a Facebook group I'm in. My enthusiasm for the library has waned considerably.



Perhaps they are Russian bots?  Experience will differ for all but I’m finding the less time I spend reading about it and the more time I spend using it, the more my enthusiasm grows.


----------



## chocobitz825

robgb said:


> Surprised to see composers blasting BBCSO on a Facebook group I'm in. My enthusiasm for the library has waned considerably.



Probably best to take either side with a grain of salt. It's as popular to hate this library as it is to love it. tribalism is intense this time. Its a matter of "do I need this or not?" because so far, it hasn't really proven to be anything more than an alternative for EWHO or a starter library for the ambitious. I still feel it's overpriced and probably not necessary for any professionals who already have what they like.


----------



## cqd

I don't think you can put the negativity down to tribalism.. the reality is that it's just not working well for a lot of people.. and like, there are errors that are glaring, and that you would expect to have been addressed prior to release.. and it's a shame, because some of it does have a lovely tone...


----------



## Zero&One

I'd certainly not use Facebook as a judge for anything. Other than cat videos or how I've been peeling a banana wrong for all these years.
Want a negative review on xxx, seek and ye shall find.


----------



## Zedcars

People still use Facebook? Wow 😯


----------



## Alex Fraser

Technical issues aside, IMO criticism of any library is almost always down to a mismatch of expectation vs reality.

The best question to ask is does the BBCSO deliver on its stated purpose? I reckon the answer is hell yes.


----------



## ridgero

chocobitz825 said:


> Probably best to take either side with a grain of salt. It's as popular to hate this library as it is to love it. tribalism is intense this time. Its a matter of "do I need this or not?" because so far, it hasn't really proven to be anything more than an alternative for EWHO or a starter library for the ambitious. I still feel it's overpriced and probably not necessary for any professionals who already have what they like.



It sucks, when you pre order a SSD and having huge technical problems. Just because you are a Windows / Cubase user.

I feel sorry for everyone who has still troubles.


----------



## synkrotron

What is "Trailer Music?"

I have an idea but wanted to check with the exspurts.


----------



## Alex Fraser

synkrotron said:


> What is "Trailer Music?"
> 
> I have an idea but wanted to check with the exspurts.


“BRRRRAAAAHHHHMMMMMM!!!”
(Music for trailers, film previews. Often requires orchestral instruments turned up to 11.)


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> “BRRRRAAAAHHHHMMMMMM!!!”
> (Music for trailers, film previews. Often requires orchestral instruments turned up to 11.)


Ooooh. I thought you meant Brahms was a trailer music guy.


----------



## Cormast

Impossible to make the library working on the long time without pops and click even on one patch one mic position after 2 weeks of plugin/hardware tweaking. I begin to completly lose hope. Win 10's not friend of BBCSO.

my computer : i7 6700k / 54Go ram / komplete audio 6 (buffers 2048) / Cubase 10 / Win 10 / library stored on NVMe 1To

Maybe i should have considered Spitfire Studio Professional series first.


----------



## Kiamo

synkrotron said:


> What is "Trailer Music?"
> 
> I have an idea but wanted to check with the exspurts.











Trailer Music Weekly


Trailer Music Weekly is about music, theme song, soundtrack, promotion from Trailers, TV Spots, Movies, Video Games, Series...




www.youtube.com


----------



## Bluemount Score

synkrotron said:


> What is "Trailer Music?"


fffffff+


----------



## PeterJCroissant

I’m very much undecided on this, where else could you spend £900 and get a better librarie?

i do love the BBCSO strings though...not feeling the brass...hmmmm 🤔


----------



## star.keys

PeterJCroissant said:


> I’m very much undecided on this, where else could you spend £900 and get a better librarie?
> 
> i do love the BBCSO strings though...not feeling the brass...hmmmm 🤔


It depends on what you already have... However, £900 is a lot of money. I would use it carefully and jump on BF/Christmas promotions to build a pro level pallet of libraries rather than a stater pack...


----------



## Zero&One

star.keys said:


> It depends on what you already have... However, £900 is a lot of money. I would use it carefully and jump on BF/Christmas promotions to build a pro level pallet of libraries rather than a stater pack...



Didn't you return the product?


----------



## John R Wilson

star.keys said:


> It depends on what you already have... However, £900 is a lot of money. I would use it carefully and jump on BF/Christmas promotions to build a pro level pallet of libraries rather than a stater pack...



EWHO diamond is also currently only $372.80 on sale. I've just purchased the BBCSO and have some other spitfire libraries like chamber strings but I've also been considering getting this as its very cheap for what you get. I've also heard that the brass is rather good. How does the EWHO compare to the newer libraries? Would it still be worth getting and who here still likes to use EWHO in their templates?


----------



## star.keys

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> EWHO diamond is also currently only $372.80 on sale. I've just purchased the BBCSO and have some other spitfire libraries like chamber strings but I've also been considering getting this as its very cheap for what you get. I've also heard that the brass is rather good. How does the EWHO compare to the newer libraries? Would it still be worth getting and who here still likes to use EWHO in their templates?


I have both HO and SCS. My problem is, I’m used to the high quality and flexibility of SCS. I’m also after the sound of strings from BBCSO and am planning to buy it once below mentioned issues get resolved. If I were you, I would seriously look at OT and Cinematic Studio Series (I already have these and these libraries are fantastic).



James H said:


> Didn't you return the product?


Yes. Still watching space for Windows/ Cubase issues and am planning to to buy it again once these issues are resolved, hopefully before BF at the launch price. Pass if price is higher than the launch price.


----------



## Cormast

How sound the closes mics on EWHO ? I Found no demo of it.


----------



## 5Lives

Would not recommend EWHO without first testing it yourself via Composer Cloud (sign up for a free month). Nearly $400 is still $400 - you can spend that on many other libraries that are superior in my opinion in terms of usability (if not sound as well). Or you're more than halfway to BBCSO's sale price.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

star.keys said:


> I have both HO and SCS. My problem is, I’m used to the high quality and flexibility of SCS. I’m also after the sound of strings from BBCSO and am planning to buy it once below mentioned issues get resolved. If I were you, I would seriously look at OT and Cinematic Studio Series (I already have these and these libraries are fantastic).
> 
> 
> Yes. Still watching space for Windows/ Cubase issues and am planning to to buy it again once these issues are resolved, hopefully before BF at the launch price. Pass if price is higher than the launch price.



Just tried replacing a full Kontakt project with BBCSO instances and it doesn't look good. Getting spikes that cause the samples to drop out, which eventually come back, but then drop out once again when there's another spike. Makes it impossible for me to work on stuff.

I hope Spitfire are able to fix these performance issues.

I'm on Windows 10 Pro, Cubase 10 Pro, 3700X AMD, 64GB Ram, 2TB SSD.


----------



## KeyMaestro

redlester said:


> Logic users using the Hybrid template...
> 
> You may be aware that if you want to use the articulation sets which are aligned with the default setup of the plugin, these will not work with the template, because the powered-down instances of the plugin on the vast majority of tracks have the key switches messed up and completely different to the default versions.
> 
> I have been exploring creating a version of the articulation set customised for the template keyswitch locations, but have now realised the best way to tackle this is to go through the template and remove each instance of the plugin, and replace it with the default patch for the instrument, delete the articulations not required for that track, power it down and save. I think this is going to be the best way of dealing with it. Laborious task for a day when not feeling inspired, but once its done that should be it.
> 
> It's bizarre how they are so mixed up, and Christian even says to Jake on the template video how they are in fixed positions, but somehow they've been totally banjaxed. Some of the plugin instances in the Strings section of the template don't actually have any key switches allocated at all!



i have a ticket in about this as well as sending a note to Christian. For some reason, in the Template, the Keyswitches react and 8va lower than they should. I’m curious if it’s because of something set up in the Score settings, but I haven’t had time to investigate.

Currently, I’m forgoing the Articulation Sets from Babylon Waves and just doing Keyswitches down an 8va until they have it sorted.


----------



## porrasm

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> EWHO diamond is also currently only $372.80 on sale. I've just purchased the BBCSO and have some other spitfire libraries like chamber strings but I've also been considering getting this as its very cheap for what you get. I've also heard that the brass is rather good. How does the EWHO compare to the newer libraries? Would it still be worth getting and who here still likes to use EWHO in their templates?


I've only played with Hollywood Brass and it is phenomenal. I had it for a few months with ComposerCloud but for some reason never bought it. Some legato patches were broken but the sound was really good. I didn't like Hollywood woodwinds, haven't tested strings.


----------



## redlester

KeyMaestro said:


> i have a ticket in about this as well as sending a note to Christian. For some reason, in the Template, the Keyswitches react and 8va lower than they should. I’m curious if it’s because of something set up in the Score settings, but I haven’t had time to investigate.
> 
> Currently, I’m forgoing the Articulation Sets from Babylon Waves and just doing Keyswitches down an 8va until they have it sorted.



See my post from yesterday with info from Christian on this:
https://vi-control.net/community/th...ng”-bbc-symphony-orchestra.84345/post-4458465

Regarding the octaves, make sure Logic is set to "Middle C = C4 (Roland)" under Preferences>Display. I believe it defaults to C3.


----------



## PeterJCroissant

star.keys said:


> It depends on what you already have... However, £900 is a lot of money. I would use it carefully and jump on BF/Christmas promotions to build a pro level pallet of libraries rather than a stater pack...




do you think Spitfire Studio Orchestra Professional has more value? similar prices, but perhaps better in dynamic layers for example?


----------



## star.keys

PeterJCroissant said:


> do you think Spitfire Studio Orchestra Professional has more value? similar prices, but perhaps better in dynamic layers for example?


I’m sorry I don’t have it. There is a large thread where users have discussed their feedback. I’m always up for dry samples. This library is on my list for their Christmas wish list (usually 40-50% off).


----------



## jbuhler

PeterJCroissant said:


> do you think Spitfire Studio Orchestra Professional has more value? similar prices, but perhaps better in dynamic layers for example?


I only have the brass and strings. I think the strings are better than the brass, but both have a lot of inconsistencies and wonky samples. The longs and shorts are also not well matched out if the box so you’ll need to address that. In the brass the transitions between dynamic layers is very pronounced and I just don’t like the room sound for the longs; even though it is a dry library the longs always sound peculiar to me however I treat the reverb. That said, and as I’ve mentioned before, I use the muted brass extensively. The short muted brass are in my main template as are some of the effects patches like sfz and swells. I also like the euphonium patch quite a lot.

In general, I find SF Studio Pro difficult to program compared to other SF libraries (SSO, SCS, Albions, etc.) Knowing SF had BBCSO in production for much of the time they were working on the studio series, I do now wonder a bit what they were thinking.


----------



## John R Wilson

star.keys said:


> I have both HO and SCS. My problem is, I’m used to the high quality and flexibility of SCS. I’m also after the sound of strings from BBCSO and am planning to buy it once below mentioned issues get resolved. If I were you, I would seriously look at OT and Cinematic Studio Series (I already have these and these libraries are fantastic).
> 
> 
> Yes. Still watching space for Windows/ Cubase issues and am planning to to buy it again once these issues are resolved, hopefully before BF at the launch price. Pass if price is higher than the launch price.



How do you find EWHO? I'm looking for similar and I really like the sound and room of the BBCSO. Im still in the process of downloading it, still got strings, woodwinds and percussion to go. I have had a brief play around with the brass and really like the tone and sound. However, I have come across a couple of issues with the brass so far. Firstly, Their does seem to be some issues with the playability of the legato patches and I can really hear a jump in crossfades of dynamics on the longs articulation on the horns. Its a little early for me to say anymore on the BBCSO as I've only briefly played around with it. I'm hoping that these issues are not present in the strings and woodwinds.


----------



## KeyMaestro

redlester said:


> See my post from yesterday with info from Christian on this:
> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/spitfire-audio-“this-is-london-calling”-bbc-symphony-orchestra.84345/post-4458465
> 
> Regarding the octaves, make sure Logic is set to "Middle C = C4 (Roland)" under Preferences>Display. I believe it defaults to C3.



I was just looking at you post from yesterday! Yeah, I feel they may be investigating a few little things that are misbehaving in the template. I’ve certainly noticed a few things here and there that, even though I’ve used logic for 15 years, I still have to hunt down. Still a great template, though. 

I checked my default template and if I open BBCSO in there, with the setting at C3 (Yamaha), the Keyswitches work appropriately. Doesn’t changing that disrupt playing everywhere else?


----------



## redlester

KeyMaestro said:


> I was just looking at you post from yesterday! Yeah, I feel they may be investigating a few little things that are misbehaving in the template. I’ve certainly noticed a few things here and there that, even though I’ve used logic for 15 years, I still have to hunt down. Still a great template, though.
> 
> I checked my default template and if I open BBCSO in there, with the setting at C3 (Yamaha), the Keyswitches work appropriately. Doesn’t changing that disrupt playing everywhere else?



No idea I haven’t tried it. I will defer to others who know more than I regarding the middle C issues, but I do recall many complaining about octave issues and key switches with Cubase in the days following BBC SO release (somewhere in this thread if you go back to around 24/25/26 October).


----------



## Lady Gaia

KeyMaestro said:


> I checked my default template and if I open BBCSO in there, with the setting at C3 (Yamaha), the Keyswitches work appropriately. Doesn’t changing that disrupt playing everywhere else?



changing the setting should just change the name Logic _displays_ for a note, not the pitch of the notes themselves. The MIDI specification is clear that note #60 is middle C, it’s just a question of whether you call that note C3 or C4. Likewise, the keyswitches start at MIDI note #0 regardless of whether you call it C-1 or C-2.


----------



## Zedcars

*Divisi Strings*:

There were some raised eyebrows 🤨 about the lack of divisi in the strings. I’ve been experimenting today and got pretty good results by using the Leaders and shift-selecting legato, con sordino, sul tasto and flautando (all or different combinations). You obviously have to use dynamics and vibrato to bring it alive. The other thing to do here, which I haven’t tried yet, is to have those different arcs on their own tracks with their own plugin instance so that you can create a unique CC performance for each one. But at the moment I’m happy with how it sounds without that last idea.

I can post some examples when I’ve got a bit more done.

I hope that helps someone.

P.S. I haven’t yet figured out how to select multiple arcs via keyswitching or any other automated way. If anyone has a solution, please let me know.


----------



## 5Lives

I took a crack at roughly translating Christian's Satie MIDI to my template that has CSS (though no flautando), CSB (though no tenor trombones), CinePerc, and Berlin Woodwinds Legacy (though no Flutes a3). I made some different balancing choices than Christian, but it was a nice exercise for me.

If BBCSO accumulates a large wealth of educational MIDIs, I would find it worth it simply for the plug-n-play ability vs. trying to translate the same MIDIs to my template. I don't find my version to sound any better than Christian's certainly, even though my libraries are more "deeply sampled" and offer more functionality. Maybe that is my biggest takeaway.


----------



## Christopher Rocky

Zedcars said:


> *Divisi Strings*:
> 
> There were some raised eyebrows 🤨 about the lack of divisi in the strings. I’ve been experimenting today and got pretty good results by using the Leaders and shift-selecting legato, con sordino, sul tasto and flautando (all or different combinations). You obviously have to use dynamics and vibrato to bring it alive. The other thing to do here, which I haven’t tried yet, is to have those different arcs on their own tracks with their own plugin instance so that you can create a unique CC performance for each one. But at the moment I’m happy with how it sounds without that last idea.
> 
> I can post some examples when I’ve got a bit more done.
> 
> I hope that helps someone.



this is exactly what i have done.

its also why a lot of kontakt template users wont get bbcso, because you have to load in the bbcso vst multiple times just for one articulation if you dont want to use keyswitches, 

the question is, would it be better to load one instance of kontakt/vst and redirect the midi to control each articulation so the memory footprint would 'supposedly' be lower?
say you have all 20 artics for strings in its own vst channel through bbcso, how that would compare to a multi out of one instance of a vst with all 20 loaded. would the spikes go away? one would assume it would be better, this seems to be the biggest downfall of the lib


----------



## animatione

Dear Spiftire PLEASE do you have a VEP template for this> Or AnYONE here?


----------



## animatione

Hello, where we are at what stage? I bought the thing I need to use the template but with the VEP, any template for the VEP?? HOW TO LOAD IT PROPERELY TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE LOGIC THING?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

animatione said:


> Hello, where we are at what stage? I bought the thing I need to use the template but with the VEP, any template for the VEP?? HOW TO LOAD IT PROPERELY TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE LOGIC THING?



I doubt it. VEPro templates are such a personal thing.


----------



## gussunkri

I just made a Little Discovery. It turns out that a few patches have an additional "hidden" legato. I found that both Trumpets a3 and solo horns have, besider the "legato (extended)" that loads with the full patch, an additional non-extended legato (meaning no staccato overlay) accesible in the articulation list, but not present by default.


----------



## staypuft

So Spitfire IS giving refunds


----------



## gussunkri

Another thing, what is your take on the two tubas? I am not sure I can motivate having both in my template by default. My impression is that the regular tuba is quite a bit more aggressive than the contrabass tuba.

Also, bass drum 1 or 2 as favourite?


----------



## mralmostpopular

staypuft said:


> So Spitfire IS giving refunds



Well, probably not now. 😉


----------



## staypuft

mralmostpopular said:


> Well, probably not now. 😉



Why not? Last time I checked Spitfire wasn't run by scammers. If they refunded one person unable to use BBCSO, they should refund everybody else. No questions asked.


----------



## CT

Took another crack at this. It's still not a "live" performance, but I'm a little happier with how I've tweaked the raw MIDI. Or maybe I've just gotten too used to it. Either way, here it is.


----------



## mralmostpopular

staypuft said:


> Why not? Last time I checked Spitfire wasn't run by scammers. If they refunded one person unable to use BBCSO, they should refund everybody else. No questions asked.



If they did issued a refund, it sounds like they did it as an exception.


----------



## cqd

mralmostpopular said:


> If they did issued a refund, it sounds like they did it as an exception.



In this situation isn't everyone who doesn't have a useable plugin an exception?


----------



## porrasm

star.keys said:


> I’m sorry I don’t have it. There is a large thread where users have discussed their feedback. I’m always up for dry samples. This library is on my list for their Christmas wish list (usually 40-50% off).


BBCSO won't be part of the Christmas wishlist. It's been confirmed. It will.be available at the intro price then.


----------



## redlester

Lady Gaia said:


> changing the setting should just change the name Logic _displays_ for a note, not the pitch of the notes themselves. The MIDI specification is clear that note #60 is middle C, it’s just a question of whether you call that note C3 or C4. Likewise, the keyswitches start at MIDI note #0 regardless of whether you call it C-1 or C-2.



Indeed, the key switches don't change position whatever it's set to. I was misunderstanding this.

For me the confusion is because on the BBC SO plugin interface it displays the keyswitch as set for the current note. Taking the legato articulation for each patch as an example, these are set to keyswitch "C -1" on the plugin interface. Logic displays the note information in both the main display at the top, and also on the piano roll notes. The only way to get both of these to tie-in with what is displayed on the plugin is to set middle C as C4. If you set to C3, then Logic displays the key switches as starting from C -2, _however the plugin still states C -1_.

I've just tested using an articulation set where the notes assigned for each articulation actually change octave in the articulation set editor depending on whether you are set to C3 or C4. So it shouldn't be a problem. 

Have also tried this in Ableton Live which appears to be set to middle C = C3, and I can't find a way to change it in there. Logic defaults to the C3 setting I believe. So is C3 the setting most people go with?


----------



## TGV

Another milestone: 500K views.

So, time to fess up: who has been hitting the F5 button hundreds of thousands of times?


----------



## Eptesicus

For me, from listening to many demos (official and user) the strings in this are quite bad and don't sound convincing at all (as in miles away from the likes of CSS and Soaring Strings in terms of lyrical/legato playing). The woodwinds sound really nice and the brass is ok.

Shame.


----------



## PeterJCroissant

Well I took the plunge! BBCSO'd myself up. I’ve tried everything but the strings so far.

no doubt about it, it sounds gorgeous. The wind sections i find particularly lovely.
The brass is very useable, and for the most part sound fabulous. However, there is something I cant put my finger on yet. Probably unfair to say much more until I’ve used it in anger.

is it the lack of vibrato? Do you not have vibrato on Symphonic brass?

I love the fact you have all the tuned and untuned percussion, with a lovely sounding Harp also, which I’ve always struggled to find a good library. So that’s nice.

I get the interface gripes, not sure why things have to be hidden, variation, release etc..of course it looks great, it would be pretty cool if you could arrange the interface to fit your personal preference.


----------



## Zedcars

Eptesicus said:


> For me, from listening to many demos (official and user) the strings in this are quite bad and don't sound convincing at all (as in miles away from the likes of CSS and Soaring Strings in terms of lyrical/legato playing). The woodwinds sound really nice and the brass is ok.
> 
> Shame.


Could you pinpoint what it is you don’t like about the strings? I think they sound really nice if handled well.


----------



## AEF

Eptesicus said:


> For me, from listening to many demos (official and user) the strings in this are quite bad and don't sound convincing at all (as in miles away from the likes of CSS and Soaring Strings in terms of lyrical/legato playing). The woodwinds sound really nice and the brass is ok.
> 
> Shame.



the legato transitions undoubtably are not at CSS level. 

however: the instrument detail, room sound, and for my taste all the shorts are all superior, as are the longs like long CS(real samples not sim), sul pont (CSS doesnt have it) flautando, (CSS doesnt have it) sul tasto (CSS doesnt have it). 

the programming of BBCSO is sloppier, CSS is so neat and clean by comparison, but the trade off is depth of sound. samples sound more “real” when they have depth or dimension baked in. BBCSO IMO brings that. 

In the end, its a matter of taste and what you think is more important. 

I have both libraries and glad I have the option.


----------



## PeterJCroissant

AEF said:


> the legato transitions undoubtably are not at CSS level.
> 
> however: the instrument detail, room sound, and for my taste all the shorts are all superior, as are the longs like long CS(real samples not sim), sul pont (CSS doesnt have it) flautando, (CSS doesnt have it) sul tasto (CSS doesnt have it).
> 
> the programming of BBCSO is sloppier, CSS is so neat and clean by comparison, but the trade off is depth of sound. samples sound more “real” when they have depth or dimension baked in. BBCSO IMO brings that.
> 
> In the end, its a matter of taste and what you think is more important.
> 
> I have both libraries and glad I have the option.




I agree with this also, there is something very inspiring about the sound of BBCSO, it makes me want to write! despite some of the areas that it maybe lacking... but maybe that will come in later updates..who knows. but I'm enjoying it is far, and for reference I have pretty much every string library going!

lets be honest, if you can't make a convincing orchestration with BBCSO...well...maybe I ought to write something first before I say that!


----------



## Noeticus

What the hell...

I just pressed F5 and there was nuthin' new to read.

What's wrong with you musical erudites?


----------



## TGV

Noeticus said:


> I just pressed F5


1M views, here we come!


----------



## Zedcars

Noeticus said:


> What the hell...
> 
> I just pressed F5 and there was nuthin' new to read.
> 
> What's wrong with you musical erudites?


We're busy making music man. 

Besides, there will come a time in the not too distant future when this grand old thread marches off into the sunset like a lonesome (but slightly obese) cowboy slowly disappearing over the horizon. He may be gone but his legend will live on and our grandchildren will gather round to listen to ye olde tales of chivalry, rivalry, friendship and bravery. When the longest thread in the West rode into town and showed 'em who's boss! Quick on the draw, that thread was lightenin' fast make no mistake.

Ah, I see it now..."when I was a youngen we actually had to download our samples, load them varmints up and play the damn pesky things with our hands! Yes, that's right...none of this new-fangled beamed straight into our brains tomfoolery..."


----------



## madfloyd

Spitfire has already moved on to the next product release. Too bad for all us Windows peeps.


----------



## styledelk

That's a silly point of view.


----------



## redlester

At last I had a few hours today to actually try using the damn thing! So this is a test piece (hence the title). Had a lot of fun doing this, no glitches and no long waiting times for things to load, using the CH/JJ Logic hybrid template on a 16GB RAM Mac Mini.


----------



## mralmostpopular

madfloyd said:


> Spitfire has already moved on to the next product release. Too bad for all us Windows peeps.



I don’t fully understand that decision. It seems like it robs a little bit of momentum from BBCSO. You wouldn’t see Apple releasing another iPhone just a few weeks after another one. It would make more sense to space out announcement/releases a bit. You’re going to give people fatigue. Obviously, this isn’t another orchestral library, but it’s still another big marketing announcement shortly after another one.


----------



## South Thames

My first BBC SO endeavour over the weekend was to mock-up (by ear, so not as faithful as it could be) the first part of the 'Finale' from _Silence of the Lambs. _Howard Shore is a great blender of instrument choirs in the mid and low registers, and this cue sort of swells operatically towards the end, so I thought it might be interesting. 

Undoubtedly getting used to the Spitfire plug-in is a huge ball ache (it seems the only way to unload unused articulations is to use the preset editor?), but, by and large, I think the sound is terrific and - after years of working with Spitfire libraries, it's actually a huge relief not to have to be faffing with the tree and close mics constantly to get the desired sound for different instruments. As others have noted, the out-of-the-box cohesion of the sound is a big selling point.


----------



## Joel Ewers

South Thames said:


> My first BBC SO endeavour over the weekend was to mock-up (by ear, so not as faithful as it could be) the first part of the 'Finale' from _Silence of the Lambs. _Howard Shore is a great blender of instrument choirs in the mid and low registers, and this cue sort of swells operatically towards the end, so I thought it might be interesting.
> 
> Undoubtedly getting used to the Spitfire plug-in is a huge ball ache (it seems the only way to unload unused articulations is to use the preset editor?), but, by and large, I think the sound is terrific and - after years of working with Spitfire libraries, it's actually a huge relief not to have to be faffing with the tree and close mics constantly to get the desired sound for different instruments. As others have noted, the out-of-the-box cohesion of the sound is a big selling point.



That sounds fantastic! Great work. I think this library is perfect for Shore-esque film music. May I ask what mic positions you used here?


----------



## robgb

Cormast said:


> Maybe i should have considered Spitfire Studio Professional series first


Well, I have the core studio strings and love them. But I will say that they are the only library I have that seems to fuck with my CPU and crash my DAW every once in awhile—and I'm on a Mac. Not sure why, but they work great until it's time to close a project. Then bam. DAW crash.


----------



## South Thames

Joel Ewers said:


> That sounds fantastic! Great work. I think this library is perfect for Shore-esque film music. May I ask what mic positions you used here?



Thanks. It's all Mix 1, no other mixes. As I say, getting a cohesive, controlled sound without having to micro-manage mic positions is, for me anyway, a huge selling point.


----------



## robgb

South Thames said:


> My first BBC SO endeavour over the weekend was to mock-up (by ear, so not as faithful as it could be) the first part of the 'Finale' from _Silence of the Lambs._


Great job. This is one of my all-time favorite scores.


----------



## Daniel Stenning

Stevie said:


> Having to skip thru several pages to see all articualtions is far from being intuitive.
> 
> Amen - it would help if at least the developers added a display showing which articulation is currently in effect too. In order to test what's going on.


----------



## JJHLH

I pulled the trigger and purchased BBCSO at the introductory price. This is my first library. I have a lot to learn, obviously, but the sound was too wonderful to pass up. I’ve been wanting to learn orchestration for a while now and this seemed like a good place to jump in. 

I will have a lot to keep me occupied this winter haha.


----------



## MaxOctane

\


South Thames said:


> My first BBC SO endeavour over the weekend was to mock-up (by ear, so not as faithful as it could be) the first part of the 'Finale' from _Silence of the Lambs. _
> 
> ...As others have noted, the out-of-the-box cohesion of the sound is a big selling point.



The out-of-the-box balance is truly uncanny here. I can imagine the amount of surgical tweaking of levels and verb (*even just choosing a reverb!*) it would take to get SCS/SSO/HZStrings/SFPercussion to fit together like this . The opening in your peace *feels* effortlessly balanced, with a nice airy tone. 

On the downside, the sustained str+brass in the second half is very synthy. People will say this just needs more CC-riding, but still. The releases are also super abrupt. I hear this in lots of BBCSO demos.

So, this echoes the tradeoff we hear again and again in this thread: excellent effortless balance and the tone is pretty-damn-good, but the tone+release are still overall weaker than other libs.


----------



## Saigen

animatione said:


> Hello, where we are at what stage? I bought the thing I need to use the template but with the VEP, any template for the VEP?? HOW TO LOAD IT PROPERELY TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE LOGIC THING?


Why not just make a VEP template?


----------



## Saigen

Zedcars said:


> We're busy making music man.
> 
> Besides, there will come a time in the not too distant future when this grand old thread marches off into the sunset like a lonesome (but slightly obese) cowboy slowly disappearing over the horizon. He may be gone but his legend will live on and our grandchildren will gather round to listen to ye olde tales of chivalry, rivalry, friendship and bravery. When the longest thread in the West rode into town and showed 'em who's boss! Quick on the draw, that thread was lightenin' fast make no mistake.
> 
> Ah, I see it now..."when I was a youngen we actually had to download our samples, load them varmints up and play the damn pesky things with our hands! Yes, that's right...none of this new-fangled beamed straight into our brains tomfoolery..."



That far into the future there will still be a 80 year old internet troll resurrecting what was, at the time, a 50-60 year old thread.

"LOL :futurespasm: look at this struggle with Windows lmao :teabag:"


----------



## Kony

mralmostpopular said:


> I don’t fully understand that decision. It seems like it robs a little bit of momentum from BBCSO. You wouldn’t see Apple releasing another iPhone just a few weeks after another one. It would make more sense to space out announcement/releases a bit. You’re going to give people fatigue. Obviously, this isn’t another orchestral library, but it’s still another big marketing announcement shortly after another one.


Feels like a rope-a-dope technique - we'll be beaten into submission. I'd understand it if it was the renewed Loegria release!


----------



## Kony

robgb said:


> Well, I have the core studio strings and love them. But I will say that they are the only library I have that seems to fuck with my CPU and crash my DAW every once in awhile—and I'm on a Mac. Not sure why, but they work great until it's time to close a project. Then bam. DAW crash.


That happens to me with SCS - not with Leogria, JB Perc or HZP, only SCS. Doesn't crash though, but takes ages to unload RAM.


----------



## cqd

Kony said:


> Feels like a rope-a-dope technique - we'll be beaten into submission. I'd understand it if it was the renewed Loegria release!



I suppose their previous rope-a-dope was a resounding success..


----------



## Henu

Kony said:


> That happens to me with SCS....



SSB too. That's easily the worst offender for me.


----------



## AEF

Just had a go at playing with the library. Good way to navigate is IMO to mock up a piece you enjoy.

Faders are all at unity gain. Spaces II for verb.


----------



## PeterJCroissant

I wonder if there is a Maida Vale impulse response we could use for non BBCSO instruments? probably a bit unnecessary but...might be nice..


----------



## Zedcars

PeterJCroissant said:


> I wonder if there is a Maida Vale impulse response we could use for non BBCSO instruments? probably a bit unnecessary but...might be nice..


Yes, they have one (probably quite a few in fact). It’s in the BBCSO plugin reverb knob. It would be great to be able to have access to this externally to could use in other libraries etc.


----------



## ridgero

Found that on Youtube today.

I really love the sound.


----------



## PeterJCroissant

Zedcars said:


> Yes, they have one (probably quite a few in fact). It’s in the BBCSO plugin reverb knob. It would be great to be able to have access to this externally to could use in other libraries etc.


exactly...good idea! well if any one knows of an IR we can load up into a convolution reverb I'd love to know..


----------



## John R Wilson

ridgero said:


> I really love the sound.




Was only BBCSO used in this?


----------



## ridgero

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Is this all BBCSO?



In the description it says: „Done with the BBC Symphony Orchestra by Spitfire.“

So I guess all except the Piano


----------



## Hadrondrift

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Was only BBCSO used in this?


Spotted a piano, so at least that has to be non-BBCSO at the moment.


----------



## John R Wilson

ridgero said:


> In the description it says: „Done with the BBC Symphony Orchestra by Spitfire.“
> 
> So I guess all except the Piano



Sounds very good.


----------



## John R Wilson

ridgero said:


> I really love the sound.




What mic positions and processing did you use on the track? Sounds very impressive.


----------



## ridgero

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> What mic positions and processing did you use on the track? Sounds very impressive.


Its not my track, just found that on youtube. I asked the same question on youtube :D


----------



## Zedcars

Is anyone else having a problem with background noise on the upper Violin I Leader, and Violin II Leader notes? It's present whether I choose Legato or Long, mid to max dynamics (worse at max), any mic.

It starts being noticeable from D5 upwards (where C4=Middle C).

It's quite noticeable if you are playing a line that jumps from low to high. I can hear it on my monitors and my headphones.


----------



## PeterJCroissant

Zedcars said:


> Is anyone else having a problem with background noise on the upper Violin I Leader, and Violin II Leader notes? It's present whether I choose Legato or Long, mid to max dynamics (worse at max), any mic.
> 
> It starts being noticeable from D5 upwards (where C4=Middle C).
> 
> It's quite noticeable on if you are playing a line that jumps from low to high. I can hear it on my monitors and my headphones.




yes, that's the noise of the bow, you won't notice that one its in place with other instruments...or you use a hi pass filter if you must, but I wouldn't.. 

you could try MICs that are further away? Tree or Ambiance?


----------



## Zedcars

PeterJCroissant said:


> yes, that's the noise of the bow, you won't notice that one its in place with other instruments...or you use a hi pass filter if you must, but I wouldn't..
> 
> you could try MICs that are further away? Tree or Ambiance?


Ok, well if it's perfectly normal then that's fine. I've just never heard it before on anything else, live or sampled. But maybe I haven't been paying enough attention to exposed lines before.


----------



## Eptesicus

Zedcars said:


> Could you pinpoint what it is you don’t like about the strings? I think they sound really nice if handled well.



They just don't sound convincing. As in every time i hear the strings come in on these demos everyone is posting i immediately think "sample". Simply put - plenty of other products do strings better.

The brass and wind sounds nice (although the horns maybe sound slightly muffled) and i actually think its a good deal for what it is (a big cohesive orchestra with loads of mics etc).

It is sort of a jack of all trades master of none type product though, and for me, having a fair few other libraries, it is a difficult sell.

Undoubtedly it is a great place to start if you don't have a massive budget and want a good full orchestra library though.


----------



## PeterJCroissant

Zedcars said:


> Ok, well if it's perfectly normal then that's fine. I've just never heard it before on anything else, live or sampled. But maybe I haven't been paying enough attention to exposed lines before.



sure, its all quite normal. But the brain is a funny thing, once you hear it, think perhaps it's an issue, then you can't un-hear it! it stands out even more...

its in many recordings of solo instruments...our brains just focus on the nice bit...I think with out it, it might sound a little thin..but you could just gently cut it away a little with EQ..see how you get on..


----------



## Zedcars

Eptesicus said:


> They just don't sound convincing. As in every time i hear the strings come in on these demos everyone is posting i immediately think "sample". Simply put - plenty of other products do strings better.
> 
> The brass and wind sounds nice (although the horns maybe sound slightly muffled) and i actually think its a good deal for what it is (a big cohesive orchestra with loads of mics etc).
> 
> It is sort of a jack of all trades master of none type product though, and for me, having a fair few other libraries, it is a difficult sell.
> 
> Undoubtedly it is a great place to start if you don't have a massive budget and want a good full orchestra library though.


Fair enough. I think convincing lines can be obtained. You do have to take care when programming, that’s what I’ve found.


----------



## Zedcars

Here's another excerpt from my 'War Child' piece. I've simulated divisi by using the legato, con sordino, flautando, and sul tasto arcs from the two violin leaders and put one of each on its own track (new instance). I recorded each track separately to simulate independent players, and also recorded the dynamics and vibrato independently. Mix 2, with some extra IR reverb within the plugin. I also panned some players very slightly away from each other:


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Eptesicus said:


> They just don't sound convincing. As in every time i hear the strings come in on these demos everyone is posting i immediately think "sample". Simply put - plenty of other products do strings better



Yeah, I agree, I’ve only heard one or two demos that don’t sound “synthy”. I can assure you, that with proper programming, the strings do indeed sound amazingly realistic.


----------



## mralmostpopular

Wolfie2112 said:


> Yeah, I agree, I’ve only heard one or two demos that don’t sound “synthy”. I can assure you, that with proper programming, the strings do indeed sound amazingly realistic.



At first, I was thinking it was the library, but I’ve heard fake sounding demos from other libraries, such as some comparisons posted here. I’m now starting to think it has more to do with programming. Many demos don’t feel like they’re being played, but rather had midi dropped in. That has more to do with the skill of the individual than the library.

That being said, I do think some other products are superior for certain styles, such as CSS for slower lyrical lines. But I think some people need perspective.

CSS + CSSS bundled are also $600, which isn’t far off from the intro/sale price of this library. Berlin WW is over $700. CSB is $400. And something like LA Modern Percussion is $400. It just makes little sense to compare.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

mralmostpopular said:


> At first, I was thinking it was the library, but I’ve heard fake sounding demos from other libraries, such as some comparisons posted here. I’m now starting to think it has more to do with programming. Many demos don’t feel like they’re being played, but rather had midi dropped in. That has more to do with the skill of the individual than the library.
> 
> That being said, I do think some other products are superior for certain styles, such as CSS for slower lyrical lines. But I think some people need perspective.
> 
> CSS + CSSS bundled are also $600, which isn’t far off from the intro/sale price of this library. Berlin WW is over $700. CSB is $400. And something like LA Modern Percussion is $400. It just makes little sense to compare.



Yes, ANY library will sound bad if not programmed as they were meant to. I can often tell which composers inputted the notes, as opposed to playing them in with appropriate CC adjustment. There are just too many factors. The two demos that sold me on the library (along with the walkthroughs) were Christian Henson's demo "A New Chapter", and Luke Olney's "Man's Best Friend". I'm glad I bought it, I've already used it for a few professional productions and it just runs like a dream on my system (Mac). I really hope the Windows side of things gets sorted out.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

mralmostpopular said:


> At first, I was thinking it was the library, but I’ve heard fake sounding demos from other libraries, such as some comparisons posted here. I’m now starting to think it has more to do with programming. Many demos don’t feel like they’re being played, but rather had midi dropped in. That has more to do with the skill of the individual than the library.
> 
> That being said, I do think some other products are superior for certain styles, such as CSS for slower lyrical lines. But I think some people need perspective.
> 
> CSS + CSSS bundled are also $600, which isn’t far off from the intro/sale price of this library. Berlin WW is over $700. CSB is $400. And something like LA Modern Percussion is $400. It just makes little sense to compare.



I think Spitfire should have gone for similar approach to their Studio Series lineup. There should have been a Pro version and a Standard version.

The Pro Version should have had deeper sampling, more mics (same as the current one now), higher dynamic ranges etc.

The standard version could be what the current version is now, minus all the 20 mic options. Give like Mix 1, Mix 2, Close, Tree, Ambient.

The Pro version could be the flagship that can also cost like 3 times the amount as the standard, but warranted since it will be the cream of the crop. 

I really like this library, but can't help think that they were a bit short sighted in what they could have delivered. It could have been a perfect library.


----------



## ridgero

Benjamin Duk said:


> I think Spitfire should have gone for similar approach to their Studio Series lineup. There should have been a Pro version and a Standard version.
> 
> The Pro Version should have had deeper sampling, more mics (same as the current one now), higher dynamic ranges etc.
> 
> The standard version could be what the current version is now, minus all the 20 mic options. Give like Mix 1, Mix 2, Close, Tree, Ambient.
> 
> The Pro version could be the flagship that can also cost like 3 times the amount as the standard, but warranted since it will be the cream of the crop.
> 
> I really like this library, but can't help think that they were a bit short sighted in what they could have delivered. It could have been a perfect library.



To have a Pro and Standard would destroy the #oneorchestra thing immediately.

Although my gut feeling says there will be a different version with all the missing articulations.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

ridgero said:


> To have a Pro and Standard would destroy the #oneorchestra thing immediately.
> 
> Although my gut feeling says there will be a different version with all the missing articulations.



It would not destroy it. It would just sound different to the Pro version if you are using different mics and deeper samples.

Think of it like missing a few colors in an image :D


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Benjamin Duk said:


> It would not destroy it. It would just sound different to the Pro version if you are using different mics and deeper samples.
> 
> Think of it like missing a few colors in an image :D



Which would then defeat the whole purpose of the collaboration aspect.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Wolfie2112 said:


> Which would then defeat the whole purpose of the collaboration aspect.



Collaboration was never the biggest selling point of this library to me so would not matter


----------



## Iostream

Wolfie2112 said:


> Which would then defeat the whole purpose of the collaboration aspect.


Not so much, if it were implented correctly you could make the midi from "pro" work in a correct way with standard. The artirculation might not be the same, but grab the closest thing to it, etc. The player could handle the obfuscation there. So it won't sound as good on standard, but close enough for collaboration to be effective.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Iostream said:


> Not so much, if it were implented correctly you could make the midi from "pro" work in a correct way with standard. The artirculation might not be the same, but grab the closest thing to it, etc. The player could handle the obfuscation there. So it won't sound as good on standard, but close enough for collaboration to be effective.



Exactly this! Basically how if you're missing fonts in Word it will just replace with the closest best thing.

Same thing happens in Photoshop. It basically tells you that these layers are missing this font, and asks if you want to replace it with something else.


----------



## Zedcars

Wolfie2112 said:


> Which would then defeat the whole purpose of the collaboration aspect.


Surely if you are serious about collaborating, then you would upgrade to the Pro version. And if that's not doable then all Pro owners would also have, by default, the Standard version. So they can work with non-Pro owners.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Iostream said:


> Not so much, if it were implented correctly you could make the midi from "pro" work in a correct way with standard. The artirculation might not be the same, but grab the closest thing to it, etc. The player could handle the obfuscation there. So it won't sound as good on standard, but close enough for collaboration to be effective.



Like I said, that would defeat the whole purpose....someone would then have to f&*k around making it sound "close enough".


----------



## John R Wilson

Benjamin Duk said:


> It would not destroy it. It would just sound different to the Pro version if you are using different mics and deeper samples.
> 
> Think of it like missing a few colors in an image :D



I don't think they should do a pro version. I think they should be improving the library as it is so it can become an increasingly great library that many more will purchase, rather than adding different versions that will then in my opinion not make it a "universal starting point". Instead of charging more and releasing more orchestral libraries they would be better off improving the apparent issues with BBCSO (bad dynamic crossfades in horns and trumpets, no vibrato crossfades), while including some more patches like a piano (which would be amazing) and ensemble patches to make this the best complete orchestral library package available.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Zedcars said:


> Surely if you are serious about collaborating, then you would upgrade to the Pro version. And if that's not doable then all Pro owners would also have, by default, the Standard version. So they can work with non-Pro owners.



Yeah I kind of see it working like that.

That way you have multiple entry points for this library, which actually increases collaboration if more people can afford the cheaper version, but also have the opportunity to upgrade later when they get more serious.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Wolfie2112 said:


> Like I said, that would defeat the whole purpose....someone would then have to f&*k around making it sound "close enough".



You would not need to mess around if the plugin automatically assigned replacement signals.


----------



## mralmostpopular

Benjamin Duk said:


> I think Spitfire should have gone for similar approach to their Studio Series lineup. There should have been a Pro version and a Standard version.
> 
> The Pro Version should have had deeper sampling, more mics (same as the current one now), higher dynamic ranges etc.
> 
> The standard version could be what the current version is now, minus all the 20 mic options. Give like Mix 1, Mix 2, Close, Tree, Ambient.
> 
> The Pro version could be the flagship that can also cost like 3 times the amount as the standard, but warranted since it will be the cream of the crop.
> 
> I really like this library, but can't help think that they were a bit short sighted in what they could have delivered. It could have been a perfect library.



More than a few people have said that they’d pay more for a pro version. It’s possible that they’re planning an expansion in the future. Their marketing talks about it being a universal starting point, not ending point, so I don’t necessarily think a pro version would kill the collaborative aspect.

With their own player, it could theoretically be as easy as clicking a couple buttons to upgrade right in the player, or download just the necessary instruments that you don’t already have. Imagine that I have a piccolo trumpet in my pro version, and you only have the standard. I send you the session file, and when you try to open it, it asks if you’d like to download X instrument for whatever cost (probably not very much). This seems like the direction Orchestral Tools is going to go with their player.

Obviously, I would love it if they just kept improving this library, but barring that, I think expanding this library in a way that allows me to slowly upgrade is more than acceptable to me.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> I don't think they should do a pro version. I think they should be improving the library as it is so it can become an increasingly great library that many more will purchase, rather than adding different versions that will then in my opinion not make it a "universal starting point". Instead of charging more and releasing more orchestral libraries, in my option they would be better off improving the apparent issues with BBCSO, (bad dynamic crossfades in horns and trumpets, no vibrato crossfades), while including some more patches like a piano (which would be amazing) and ensemble patches to make this the best complete orchestral library package available.



Well this would have been the best outcome, but I think they were stuck in 2 places. How can we make this affordable and also be a great library. Compromises were taken, which caused certain aspects of the library to suffer. Hence the solution for Pro and Standard.

The best solution would have just been one library to rule them all :D


----------



## Zedcars

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> I don't think they should do a pro version. I think they should be improving the library as it is so it can become an increasingly great library that many more will purchase, rather than adding different versions that will then in my opinion not make it a "universal starting point". Instead of charging more and releasing more orchestral libraries they would be better off improving the apparent issues with BBCSO (bad dynamic crossfades in horns and trumpets, no vibrato crossfades), while including some more patches like a piano (which would be amazing) and ensemble patches to make this the best complete orchestral library package available.


Why can’t they do both? Doesn’t have to be now. Maybe a Pro version next Spring/Summer when they have sorted some of the issues out like with the Windows version.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

mralmostpopular said:


> More than a few people have said that they’d pay more for a pro version. It’s possible that they’re planning an expansion in the future. Their marketing talks about it being a universal starting point, not ending point, so I don’t necessarily think a pro version would kill the collaborative aspect.
> 
> With their own player, it could theoretically be as easy as clicking a couple buttons to upgrade right in the player, or download just the necessary instruments that you don’t already have. Imagine that I have a piccolo trumpet in my pro version, and you only have the standard. I send you the session file, and when you try to open it, it asks if you’d like to download X instrument for whatever cost (probably not very much). This seems like the direction Orchestral Tools is going to go with their player.
> 
> Obviously, I would love it if they just kept improving this library, but barring that, I think expanding this library in a way that allows me to slowly upgrade is more than acceptable to me.



I would definitely pay more for more dynamic layers etc, but would mean re-recording some sections, which I'm not sure they will do. Hopefully they will.

Yeah I think Orchestral Tools has the correct approach to this sort of thing. Having a more dynamic player / store opens up way more possibilites.


----------



## John R Wilson

Zedcars said:


> Why can’t they do both? Doesn’t have to be now. Maybe a Pro version next Spring/Summer when they have sorted some of the issues out like with the Windows version.



I just think they should be improving it as it is now to make it an increasingly great library. Why make a pro version when they could improve and upgrade the current one. I think if they where going to do anything then an upgrade option would be a good way forward instead of making pro versions.


----------



## dzilizzi

From things that have been said, I kind of wonder if they did record more dynamic layers and either they weren't ready to be released at the time, or they ended up being unusable. There is definitely a piano out there and a bass flute. Hopefully, they will continue working on this, as even if they do it as a pro version, I would be excited!


----------



## Zedcars

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> I just think they should be improving it as it is now to make it an increasingly great library. Why make a pro version when they could improve and upgrade the current one. I think if they where going to do anything then an upgrade option would be a good way forward instead of making pro versions.


I agree they should be improving it now, and I think that they are. Like I said, the Pro version would be further down the line.

I've no idea if that's even probable. Just saying the two things aren't mutually exclusive.


----------



## christianhenson

This guy is a talent!!!


----------



## John R Wilson

christianhenson said:


> This guy is a talent!!!




Sounds stunning.


----------



## Iostream

Wolfie2112 said:


> Like I said, that would defeat the whole purpose....someone would then have to f&*k around making it sound "close enough".



No, someone wouldn't. The player would. It would have to be updated with a mapping of features in pro which are not in standard, and what is the closest thing in standard, but the point is, the collaborator loading a project in standard doesn't have to do anything, it just interprets, and it would be close enough for useful collaboration. Sure, it is missing dynamic layers, it is using the standard legato patch vs the legato runs patch, etc, but the basics of the composition are there and the users don't have to do anything for them to be compatible.


----------



## jbuhler

Benjamin Duk said:


> I would definitely pay more for more dynamic layers etc, but would mean re-recording some sections, which I'm not sure they will do. Hopefully they will.
> 
> Yeah I think Orchestral Tools has the correct approach to this sort of thing. Having a more dynamic player / store opens up way more possibilites.


Or SF already has the recordings and just hasn't implemented them yet. OT is a mess to work with, especially the Berlin series. It takes me far longer to program anything using Berlin Strings compared to SSS or SCS and BBCSO seems to be easier to program than either of those.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

jbuhler said:


> Or SF already has the recordings and just hasn't implemented them yet. OT is a mess to work with, especially the Berlin series. It takes me far longer to program anything using Berlin Strings compared to SSS or SCS and BBCSO seems to be easier to program than either of those.



If they had the recordings they should have delayed the launch or made a statement that it would be added at a later date because they need more time. 

I was talking more about the flexibility of the new OT system that has not been released yet. It's more a modular system.


----------



## muk

Noeticus said:


> Hello Paul,
> 
> Can you PLEASE confirm that more dynamic layers are coming as a free update?
> 
> Or, even as a paid expansion?





paulthomson said:


> I cannot.
> 
> There is stuff already recorded that we will be adding.
> 
> but remember the point of this library was a sub 1k complete orchestral library ina box.



That statement is pretty clear in my opinion. More dynamic layers are *not *coming, neither in a free nor a paid update.


----------



## mralmostpopular

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> I just think they should be improving it as it is now to make it an increasingly great library. Why make a pro version when they could improve and upgrade the current one. I think if they where going to do anything then an upgrade option would be a good way forward instead of making pro versions.



Spitfire Audio is first and foremost a business. Continuing to expand on a library COULD make money because it could add longevity to the product, and continue sales. At some point, that won’t be true. Only Spitfire can really determine when it doesn’t make sense to add to it for free. That point could be sooner, rather than later.


----------



## jbuhler

Benjamin Duk said:


> If they had the recordings they should have delayed the launch or made a statement that it would be added at a later date because they need more time.
> 
> I was talking more about the flexibility of the new OT system that has not been released yet. It's more a modular system.


Why should they? If they make the promise now they are obligated to go through with it however circumstances may change. In the meantime if they wait until everything is set then those who are happy to work with it as is don’t have that opportunity. If you don’t think BBCSO is worth what they are asking for as is, don’t buy it now. If you think the price is fair as is but would like it to get better it almost certainly will. They’ve already promised additional instruments and adding the performance legato to more instruments.


----------



## jbuhler

Benjamin Duk said:


> I was talking more about the flexibility of the new OT system that has not been released yet. It's more a modular system.


We know what OT has promised. We have no idea what it will look like realized. I have my doubts. They may have something like what they promised two years from now. There will almost certainly be much gnashing of teeth as they get there.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

jbuhler said:


> Why should they? If they make the promise now they are obligated to go through with it however circumstances may change. In the meantime if they wait until everything is set then those who are happy to work with it as is don’t have that opportunity. If you don’t think BBCSO is worth what they are asking for as is, don’t buy it now. If you think the price is fair as is but would like it to get better it almost certainly will. They’ve already promised additional instruments and adding the performance legato to more instruments.



All I'm saying is that transparency goes a long way. This is just my opinion of course.

From reading comments on this thread, the negatives are mostly always about the same issues. All I'm saying is that it could have been avoided.

If you take the FF7 game remake. They were very transparent with the fans saying that "we can release the entire game now, but it won't be polished, but if we split it in 2 we can give you 2 parts that are very polished". It's the same concept for me.


----------



## jbuhler

Benjamin Duk said:


> All I'm saying is that transparency goes a long way. This is just my opinion of course.
> 
> From reading comments on this thread, the negatives are mostly always about the same issues. All I'm saying is that it could have been avoided.
> 
> If you take the FF7 game remake. They were very transparent with the fans saying that "we can release the entire game now, but it won't be polished, but if we split it in 2 we can give you 2 parts that are very polished". It's the same concept for me.


I don't know. It has been very clear to me that SF has planned to do more work on BBCSO, and that what they released was just a starting point. Yes, it's true I don't have any real sense of how they plan to fill it out. (They may not know either because they may be waiting to see what the feature requests are.) But I prefer it this way because I can assess whether the BBCSO as it currently stands is worth the price to me SF is asking for it, rather than me needing to do some sort of calculation about whether promised additions will turn into vaporware (sort of what happened with SF's old BML series and I suspect they are cautious about promises in part because of that).


----------



## mralmostpopular

Anyone know how long it’s taking for them to make the SSDs?


----------



## Benjamin Duk

jbuhler said:


> I don't know. It has been very clear to me that SF has planned to do more work on BBCSO, and that what they released was just a starting point. Yes, it's true I don't have any real sense of how they plan to fill it out. (They may not know either because they may be waiting to see what the feature requests are.) But I prefer it this way because I can assess whether the BBCSO as it currently stands is worth the price to me SF is asking for it, rather than me needing to do some sort of calculation about whether promised additions will turn into vaporware (sort of what happened with SF's old BML series and I suspect they are cautious about promises in part because of that).



Sure you have valid points, but not everyone will share that same opinion.

Also to be fair, this is also not their first rodeo. They have more than 20+ libraries under their belt, so they should know what their client base is expecting.


----------



## jbuhler

Benjamin Duk said:


> Sure you have valid points, but not everyone will share that same opinion.
> 
> Also to be fair, this is also not their first rodeo. They have more than 20+ libraries under their belt, so they should know what their client base is expecting. It should not be a surprise.


I think they know. I mean, they are present here on the forum, they get extensive feedback on their support line, etc. 

Perhaps what SF is doing is not a mistake at all but they are doing what they do because 99% of their customers are reasonably happy and would prefer to have a workable if not fully optimized library six months or a year earlier than they otherwise would? Maybe they find that making substantial updates to a library works better and those updates are greeted more enthusiastically by their customers if they haven't overpromised. Perhaps they like the idea of creating the next version using input from customers and so don't want to be locked into doing one thing when their customers want another thing. I can think of all kinds of non-nefarious reasons they might not want to be completely candid about the future plans for BBCSO. (I can also think of nefarious reasons, so it's not like I believe it's all chocolates.)


----------



## I like music

They also took venture funding, right? Once you get those boys involved, you had better up your sales numbers! At least in the companies where I worked (where VC funding was taken) the culture shift was quite dramatic. Not saying that's happening here, but I _imagine_ that it had an effect on an accelerated product output + bigger marketing budgets. 

Not commenting on the quality of the library here, or even on any business practices. Just conjecture. And certainly no judgment.


----------



## NoamL

christianhenson said:


> This guy is a talent!!!




Sounds brilliant at 2:45 especially!

EDIT: wow, those ending chords, chills.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

jbuhler said:


> I think they know. I mean, they are present here on the forum, they get extensive feedback on their support line, etc.
> 
> Perhaps what SF is doing is not a mistake at all but they are doing what they do because 99% of their customers are reasonably happy and would prefer to have a workable if not fully optimized library six months or a year earlier than they otherwise would? Maybe they find that making substantial updates to a library works better and those updates are greeted more enthusiastically by their customers if they haven't overpromised. Perhaps they like the idea of creating the next version using input from customers and so don't want to be locked into doing one thing when their customers want another thing. I can think of all kinds of non-nefarious reasons they might not want to be completely candid about the future plans for BBCSO. (I can also think of nefarious reasons, so it's not like I believe it's all chocolates.)



True, this could very well be the direction they are taking. Time will tell.


----------



## dzilizzi

jbuhler said:


> I think they know. I mean, they are present here on the forum, they get extensive feedback on their support line, etc.
> 
> Perhaps what SF is doing is not a mistake at all but they are doing what they do because 99% of their customers are reasonably happy and would prefer to have a workable if not fully optimized library six months or a year earlier than they otherwise would? Maybe they find that making substantial updates to a library works better and those updates are greeted more enthusiastically by their customers if they haven't overpromised. Perhaps they like the idea of creating the next version using input from customers and so don't want to be locked into doing one thing when their customers want another thing. I can think of all kinds of non-nefarious reasons they might not want to be completely candid about the future plans for BBCSO. (I can also think of nefarious reasons, so it's not like I believe it's all chocolates.)


Actually, my only complaint about their updates (and they do update) is that I usually only find out about them when I'm downloading a LABS library and see "Update Available" on a library. And maybe they do email me? I swear i am on their email list, but rarely get anything.


----------



## Alex Fraser

If I was betting man, I’d say that the BBCSO is, baring a couple of new instruments and continued bug fixes, done.

No pro, no expansions. Like Paul said, this was designed to be an all in one sub 1k product. Presumably everything from the first session at Maida Vale onwards was designed around that brief.

Perhaps SF still positions SSO as the top tier, detailed library with BBCSO specifically designed to hit a lower price point

It looks like they’ve shifted an insane amount of copies so the last thing Spitfire would consider the BBCSO to be would be a “mistake” 😉


----------



## MaxOctane

Alex Fraser said:


> If I was betting man, I’d say that the BBCSO is, baring a couple of new instruments and continued bug fixes, done. No pro, no expansions.



I agree. We may see a bass flute and some other additions. I could maybe see more mixes coming down the line (though that will really strain the disk size even more).

But... additional dynamic layers? Forget it. That'll be in their *next *major orchestral lib.


----------



## Alex Fraser

MaxOctane said:


> I agree. We may see a bass flute and some other additions. I could maybe see more mixes coming down the line (though that will really strain the disk size even more).
> 
> But... additional dynamic layers? Forget it. That'll be in their *next *major orchestral lib.


Haha, probably.

To get the full "Air Lyndhurst" Spitfire experience with instrument parity, you'll be out £1779 for the "Symphony Complete" package. Add solo strings at £349 and we're squarely into organ donation territory. By comparison, the BBCSO costs £899, less than half the price and looks to be a deliberate attempt to bring the Spitfire orchestra experience to those who can't justify losing a kidney.

(And if you consider a large percentage of BBCSO sales will happen under special offer conditions, the "real" price is probably nearer £750 - 800)

It's also difficult to see what a pro version would offer. I'm not sure there are any corners left in Maida Vale to put a mic. All the base instruments are covered and some less common ones too. Solo strings? Check. Harp? Check. Piano? Soon.

Articulations? Again, the bases are covered and a pro edition would be squarely in "hairpin" territory.

More dynamic layers would be lovely, but they're not the stuff marketing dreams are made of.
My 2c anyway. Consider all the above the ramblings of someone who should be doing actual work. 😎


----------



## MaxOctane

Plus, add a third dynamic layer to all mics, and now the lib is 900gb!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Alex Fraser said:


> More dynamic layers would be lovely, but they're not the stuff marketing dreams are made of.



And I can assure you that none of my clients, who have heard BBCSO my latest productions, have mentioned the lack of dynamic layers . In fact, they would never know the difference. And really, I can't even tell the difference once everything is fully mixed.


----------



## Alex Fraser

MaxOctane said:


> Plus, add a third dynamic layer to all mics, and now the lib is 900gb!


..and dangerously close to eclisping 1TB. Which is a nice round number to ship on an SSD.


----------



## jbuhler

dzilizzi said:


> Actually, my only complaint about their updates (and they do update) is that I usually only find out about them when I'm downloading a LABS library and see "Update Available" on a library. And maybe they do email me? I swear i am on their email list, but rarely get anything.


Yes, I definitely wish they would notify on updates. I too use the Labs libraries as a reminder to check for updates.


----------



## jbuhler

Alex Fraser said:


> If I was betting man, I’d say that the BBCSO is, baring a couple of new instruments and continued bug fixes, done.
> 
> No pro, no expansions. Like Paul said, this was designed to be an all in one sub 1k product. Presumably everything from the first session at Maida Vale onwards was designed around that brief.


This could be. Paul did say there were some more performance legato patches to be delivered (and that none of them were planned for this release), and a few additional instruments. I wouldn't be surprised to see additional articulations (e.g., muted brass), additional round robins, and additional dynamic layers, but I wouldn't be surprised if none of these things appeared. And given the speed at which they make substantial upgrades to their other libraries it may well be years before any additions show up. But I guess I would take the point to be that we should make our choice about whether to buy on what is on offer right now, as is, not on what might be.


----------



## mralmostpopular

Wolfie2112 said:


> And I can assure you that none of my clients, who have heard BBCSO my latest productions, have mentioned the lack of dynamic layers . In fact, they would never know the difference. And really, I can't even tell the difference once everything is fully mixed.



You’re a calm voice of reason here.

Would more dynamic layers have made it sound better? Eh, maybe.

Would it have sold more units? Probably not many in reality. Most of the complaints are about the player. Only a small number seem to be about things like dynamic layers.


----------



## Leslie Fuller

Alex Fraser said:


> If I was betting man, I’d say that the BBCSO is, baring a couple of new instruments and continued bug fixes, done.
> 
> No pro, no expansions. Like Paul said, this was designed to be an all in one sub 1k product. Presumably everything from the first session at Maida Vale onwards was designed around that brief.
> 
> Perhaps SF still positions SSO as the top tier, detailed library with BBCSO specifically designed to hit a lower price point
> 
> It looks like they’ve shifted an insane amount of copies so the last thing Spitfire would consider the BBCSO to be would be a “mistake” 😉



Agree 100%! Given the joint venture with the BBCSO, I hardly think SF would ignore anything being hugely problematic with this library and its users, as it would also reflect on the BBCSO as an organisation.

You have to think that it is a risk for the BBCSO to have this library out in public with their “signature” sound, unless they were confident that it was a quality product.

It is positioned as an “all in one, straight out of the box experience”, and was never ever meant to be the “best in class” for all eventualities. 

The BBCSO is a very busy orchestra in the UK (and probably elsewhere), so unless recordings are “in the can” from the Maida Vale sessions, I doubt SF and the BBCSO would have time to record more material, especially with all the many various requests in this thread for this or that instrument, articulation, round robins, more fffs etc.


----------



## Craig Sharmat

They mentioned this was only the beginning, I believe there will be many (paid) expansions.


----------



## Noeticus

Leslie Fuller said:


> Agree 100%! Given the joint venture with the BBCSO, I hardly think SF would ignore anything being hugely problematic with this library and its users, as it would also reflect on the BBCSO as an organisation.
> 
> You have to think that it is a risk for the BBCSO to have this library out in public with their “signature” sound, unless they were confident that it was a quality product.
> 
> It is positioned as an “all in one, straight out of the box experience”, and was never ever meant to be the “best in class” for all eventualities.
> 
> The BBCSO is a very busy orchestra in the UK (and probably elsewhere), so unless recordings are “in the can” from the Maida Vale sessions, I doubt SF and the BBCSO would have time to record more material, especially with all the many various requests in this thread for this or that instrument, articulation, round robins, more fffs etc.



I wish that the Spitfire BBCSO was "best in class".


----------



## Pianolando

Berlin woodwinds, which is supposed to be a cutting edge library with a high price has 2 dynamic layers. 
Embertones recent bassoon also has only two recorded dynamic layers, the rest is programmed, and that Is an extremely expressive instrument, that to my ears can pull off both romantic legato lines and classic bassoon staccatos very realistically, even when soloed. 

Maybe it’s different for brass but many instruments can be very expressive and realistic with only a few layers if they are very well programmed.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Craig Sharmat said:


> They mentioned this was only the beginning, I believe there will be many (paid) expansions.


I see where you're coming from, but I think SF were really referring to a long term collaboration with the BBC: More training, resources etc with the BBCSO library at the core.

Or maybe a whole line of "recorded at Maida Vale" treats. There's more than one soundstage..


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> I see where you're coming from, but I think SF were really referring to a long term collaboration with the BBC: More training, resources etc with the BBCSO library at the core.
> 
> Or maybe a whole line of "recorded at Maida Vale" treats. There's more than one soundstage..



I agree and I don’t think it needs a “pro” version. The pro version is effectively their other libraries like SSO and Chamber strings etc. 

From my own experience of producing one short test piece, I found my first thoughts were to try the same piece using some of those other libraries. Will probably end up not doing, as next time I have a bit of time I will want to try something new, but the point is I felt while using it that it’s biggest strength was the speed of use as a sketching tool (especially with the Logic template provided), not necessarily for a finessed finished project. Although in skilful hands it obviously can be.


----------



## ed buller

Alex Fraser said:


> Or maybe a whole line of "recorded at Maida Vale" treats. There's more than one soundstage..




They will need to be quick. Its scheduled to be demolished

e


----------



## mralmostpopular

ed buller said:


> They will need to be quick. Its scheduled to be demolished
> 
> e



It’s closing by 2023. That’s plenty of time to record stuff.


----------



## Alex Fraser

mralmostpopular said:


> It’s closing by 2023. That’s plenty of time to record stuff.


Yep. And then there’s the Beeb’s swanky new replacement facility to come.

I reckon SF and the Beeb have their eyes on the education market too. Our local secondary (high) school has a room full of iMacs running Logic. The BBCSO would be a great teaching asset - perhaps an “education” version with less mics. 

I think this is what CH was alluding to way back before the library reveal, when he talked about a new way of doing things as a sample dev. Perhaps the long game is being played here as Spitfire look to widen their market.

The benefit for us, is that the library will continue to get care and attention long past the release date, making it safe long term investment.

Exciting stuff I think.


----------



## Loïc D

Alex Fraser said:


> I'm not sure there are any corners left in Maida Vale to put a mic.


By sheer coincidence, the last 2 concerts I've been attending had their finale played from backstage. The rendering was terrific !
Those were Holst's Planets and Olafur Arnalds.
So there's room for new mics I guess (warning : pun alert)


----------



## CT

Here's something probably without any musical merit that I scribbled out tonight to see how smoothly I could go from paper to a passable mock-up.


----------



## cqd

That's nearly my favourite bbcso track so far..


----------



## Joel Ewers

miket said:


> Here's something probably without any musical merit that I scribbled out tonight to see how smoothly I could go from paper to a passable mock-up.




Now that is a beautiful, sensitive piece. I really love the strings. I get FEELING from this track.


----------



## christianhenson

Yeah stunning, whilst it is clearly a majestic arrangement and composition I think his orchestral programming chops are pretty well honed!


----------



## Phaedraz

@christianhenson: Is there an estimate on when we can expect an update for windows addressing the reported problems in 1.04? As it is now I can only use 1.03 with the huge memory footprint.


----------



## Patrick.K

miket said:


> Here's something probably without any musical merit that I scribbled out tonight to see how smoothly I could go from paper to a passable mock-up.



It is very beautiful, a pleasure to listen !.


----------



## Alex Fraser

christianhenson said:


> Yeah stunning, whilst it is clearly a majestic arrangement and composition I think his orchestral programming chops are pretty well honed!


It's a lovely bit of music, and if I remember rightly from our conversations, Mike did this on a vintage 2011 iMac.


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

I love the humbleness. Beautiful.


----------



## chemie262

Phaedraz said:


> @christianhenson: Is there an estimate on when we can expect an update for windows addressing the reported problems in 1.04? As it is now I can only use 1.03 with the huge memory footprint.


I could test the version 1.05 already and this is really an improvement. I did not see the dropouts and crackles I observed before. But loading times seem still high compared to Kontakt libraries.
I use Win10, Cubase 10, Ryzen Threadripper 2950, 128 GB, 2 TB SSD


----------



## Eptesicus

miket said:


> Here's something probably without any musical merit that I scribbled out tonight to see how smoothly I could go from paper to a passable mock-up.





This is lovely.

The only thing i don't like is the solo cello. That's what lets it down for me.

Everything else is gorgeous though.

Also, "..without musical merit" lol. Dont be coy.


----------



## Patrick.K

Alex Fraser said:


> It's a lovely bit of music, and if I remember rightly from our conversations, Mike did this on a vintage 2011 iMac.


Beautiful music.
I also have a "Vintage" IMac 27 2011 with 32 GB, and it works really well, even with Firewire 800.
This machine always surprises me !.It's a real "Panzer" .


----------



## CT

Man, I can never quite judge what might actually be decent or not. Thanks everyone... glad it seems to be the former! And yes, this is done with a vintage iMac, without a hiccup.


----------



## Bluemount Score

miket said:


> Man, I can never quite judge what might actually be decent or not. Thanks everyone... glad it seems to be the former! And yes, this is done with a vintage iMac, without a hiccup.


It's a very sweet composition indeed!

Maybe they should have delivered BBCSO not just on an SSD, but with a vintage iMac included, yes?


----------



## CT

Ha! This thing is getting a full Viking funeral when it finally goes. It's earned Valhalla.


----------



## PeterJCroissant

Guys - not sure if this adds any value - this is a 30 second brass demo, all stops out. I just wanted to see how it fairs in the style I like to do.

the Chords are just Horns/Trombones/Tuba / whilst the melody is Trumpets and Flutes


----------



## brenneisen

PeterJCroissant said:


> Guys - not sure if this adds any value



the first 3 seconds were terrible, added absolutely nothing; Cage did it better


----------



## Alex Fraser

miket said:


> Ha! This thing is getting a full Viking funeral when it finally goes. It's earned Valhalla.


I know, right? If there ever was a demonstration of the longevity of Macs, this model would be it. To put into perspective, it still has a CD-Rom burner built in..


----------



## Bluemount Score

Alex Fraser said:


> To put into perspective, it still has a CD-Rom burner built in..


A _what_?


----------



## Bluemount Score

PeterJCroissant said:


> Guys - not sure if this adds any value - this is a 30 second brass demo, all stops out. I just wanted to see how it fairs in the style I like to do.
> 
> the Chords are just Horns/Trombones/Tuba / whilst the melody is Trumpets and Flutes



I liked how the chords sounded pretty ff to me in this example. Mostly due to the trombones, of course.


----------



## I like music

Bluemount Score said:


> I liked how the chords sounded pretty ff to me in this example. Mostly due to the trombones, of course.



My first thought also. I had been writing the library off a bit due to some of the comments around the brass not being able to dial it up, but it felt fairly punchy here... punchy enough that a lot of orchestral music could get done with it.


----------



## Zedcars

Can anyone here give me advice about how to create a fff from f in the brass, specifically in the trumpets. Is it even possible? I was thinking of adding some subtle distortion and dialling up the upper partials with some EQ. Would this be effective or not really?

Really what I’m missing in this library is a good powerful brass crescendo (the horns seem better at this). You can create a subtle crescendo, but I’d like give it more welly! I thought if I used some dynamic EQ in the upper range and distortion it might work?


----------



## PeterJCroissant

Zedcars said:


> Can anyone here give me advice about how to create a fff from f in the brass, specifically in the trumpets. Is it even possible? I was thinking of adding some subtle distortion and dialling up the upper partials with some EQ. Would this be effective or not really?
> 
> Really what I’m missing in this library is a good powerful brass crescendo (the horns seem better at this). You can create a subtle crescendo, but I’d like give it more welly! I thought if I used some dynamic EQ in the upper range and distortion it might work?



What articulation are you using? if I recall the Longs go further in raspiness than the legatos.

but you could always add a bit of distortion in parallel, I've never done but I don't see why not.


----------



## Denkii

Alex Fraser said:


> it still has a CD-Rom burner built in..


That's the stuff where you use a pencil to rewind the tape, right?


----------



## Noeticus

miket said:


> Here's something probably without any musical merit that I scribbled out tonight to see how smoothly I could go from paper to a passable mock-up.




This is truly a great composition! 

Wow! 

Reminded me a bit of Vaughan Williams .


----------



## Bluemount Score

Zedcars said:


> Can anyone here give me advice about how to create a fff from f in the brass, specifically in the trumpets. Is it even possible? I was thinking of adding some subtle distortion and dialling up the upper partials with some EQ. Would this be effective or not really?
> 
> Really what I’m missing in this library is a good powerful brass crescendo (the horns seem better at this). You can create a subtle crescendo, but I’d like give it more welly! I thought if I used some dynamic EQ in the upper range and distortion it might work?


Try to use (or layer) the long cuivre patch and boost the hell out of those highs. Can't replace a natural fff recording of course, but the best thing you can do. Play around with distortion, but I'm not familiar with that.


----------



## Zedcars

PeterJCroissant said:


> What articulation are you using? if I recall the Longs go further in raspiness than the legatos.
> 
> but you could always add a bit of distortion in parallel, I've never done but I don't see why not.


Cuivré for the loudest parts, but it still feels like it could have a bit more oomph. I'll give it a try.


----------



## Zedcars

Bluemount Score said:


> Try to use (or layer) the long cuivre patch and boost the hell out of those highs. Can't replace a natural fff recording of course, but the best thing you can do. Play around with distortion, but I'm not familiar with that.


Great, thanks. I'll see if I can give it a bit more bite. It's actually not too bad though. It was more the realistic powerful crescendos which I'm struggling with.


----------



## cqd

Zedcars said:


> Great, thanks. I'll see if I can give it a bit more bite. It's actually not too bad though. It was more the realistic powerful crescendos which I'm struggling with.



This is where this library falls down..range..


----------



## erica-grace

cqd said:


> This is where this library falls down..range..



All libraries do.


----------



## cqd

erica-grace said:


> All libraries do.


I dunno..CSB has like too much range..


----------



## Jett Hitt

miket said:


> Here's something probably without any musical merit that I scribbled out tonight to see how smoothly I could go from paper to a passable mock-up.



When I hear something like this, it makes $750 seem like a no brainer. Granted, Mike is probably a seasoned professional with extraordinary programing powers, but still, the potential is clear. Truth be told, I can't make my higher end libraries sound any better than this. What continues to amaze me about BBCSO is that I can maintain my suspension of disbelief for longer periods than any other library. Somehow it just all goes together. It is a brilliant achievement. I really hope for both us and Spitfire that they continue to improve, develop, and expand this product because, personally, I believe that a year from now it will be a goto for a realistic orchestral sound. After more demos are out there, more people are going to say, "I want that sound." Unless I miss my mark, and I do so on a regular basis, the compulsion to create similar libraries will weigh heavily on other companies.


----------



## Mike Fox

Wolfie2112 said:


> Which would then defeat the whole purpose of the collaboration aspect.


I'm still not understaing this collaboration aspect. Maybe I'm from a different world of composing, but what percentage of composers are actually doing this? I feel like I'm out of the loop on this one.


----------



## Guffy

Zedcars said:


> Can anyone here give me advice about how to create a fff from f in the brass, specifically in the trumpets. Is it even possible? I was thinking of adding some subtle distortion and dialling up the upper partials with some EQ. Would this be effective or not really?
> 
> Really what I’m missing in this library is a good powerful brass crescendo (the horns seem better at this). You can create a subtle crescendo, but I’d like give it more welly! I thought if I used some dynamic EQ in the upper range and distortion it might work?


Use a different library.


----------



## dzilizzi

Mike Fox said:


> I'm still not understaing this collaboration aspect. Maybe I'm from a different world of composing, but what percentage of composers are actually do this? I feel like I'm out of the loop on this one.


I think part of this started at SA when a few of them tried to work together composing something. None of their templates matched up. 

But generally, you probably see this more with composers who do big productions with assistants. And those who are learning. Since it is BBC based, i'm going to guess the main focus is on those who are learning.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Mike Fox said:


> I'm still not understaing this collaboration aspect. Maybe I'm from a different world of composing, but what percentage of composers are actually doing this? I feel like I'm out of the loop on this one.



I suspect the whole premises of that is to have a "universal" library in which composers could post a project (for example) on the "The Page" and it would theoretically load up (and play back) exactly the same in a similar system. I tried this with the downloadable templates currently on there, and it works like a charm. As opposed to, say, downloading a General MIDI file of a project (which we all know creates recipe for disaster).


----------



## Mike Fox

dzilizzi said:


> I think part of this started at SA when a few of them tried to work together composing something. None of their templates matched up.
> 
> But generally, you probably see this more with composers who do big productions with assistants. And those who are learning. Since it is BBC based, i'm going to guess the main focus is on those who are learning.


I guess that makes sense. I just never realized there was really a demand for it.


----------



## CT

Noeticus said:


> This is truly a great composition!
> 
> Wow!
> 
> Reminded me a bit of Vaughan Williams .



Thank you! Yes, I think RVW was hanging around at a few points last night.



hittjett said:


> Granted, Mike is probably a seasoned professional with extraordinary programing powers



I can count the number of paid projects of any sort that I've done on one hand (or less)... far from a professional, though it would be nice.

As for the programming, there's basically none, which was a relief after the last thing I tried where I was endlessly tweaking robotic MIDI and getting nowhere. I just play everything with a keyboard in one hand, vibrato in the other, and dynamics (plus expression on strings) on my breath controller.

There's also no mixing or anything involved, beyond some additional reverb. If something isn't sitting right, I look at it as an orchestration/performance issue, not a reason to grab EQ or compression. When I put the raw audio back into Logic to trim the dead air off the beginning and end, I just slapped Softube's Tape on it with very light settings for some "mojo." And bumped up the gain a little. So this isn't 100% out of the box, but it's damn close.


----------



## erica-grace

cqd said:


> I dunno..CSB has like too much range..



Not in the demos and walkthrough I have heard.


----------



## mralmostpopular

Mike Fox said:


> I guess that makes sense. I just never realized there was really a demand for it.



I’m not sure that there is a demand for collaboration necessarily, but Spitfire is trying something new here. It can be tough for some people to develop their skills because so many people have so many libraries. Sometimes all someone can do is sit and wonder why they can’t get something to sound to like someone else’s.

I can imagine that the BBC really liked the idea of it being used as an educational tool. I don’t foresee a ton of actual collaborative scoring happening in the professional world, but as with most things, only time will tell.


----------



## cqd

erica-grace said:


> Not in the demos and walkthrough I have heard.



It really does..

And as for the whole collaboration thing, it was a marketing ploy, really..


----------



## Phaedraz

chemie262 said:


> I could test the version 1.05 already and this is really an improvement. I did not see the dropouts and crackles I observed before. But loading times seem still high compared to Kontakt libraries.
> I use Win10, Cubase 10, Ryzen Threadripper 2950, 128 GB, 2 TB SSD



Sounds good! So, wonder when it will be out then. I see no update in the Spitfire App yet.


----------



## Noeticus

miket said:


> Thank you! Yes, I think RVW was hanging around at a few points last night.
> 
> 
> 
> I can count the number of paid projects of any sort that I've done on one hand (or less)... far from a professional, though it would be nice.
> 
> As for the programming, there's basically none, which was a relief after the last thing I tried where I was endlessly tweaking robotic MIDI and getting nowhere. I just play everything with a keyboard in one hand, vibrato in the other, and dynamics (plus expression on strings) on my breath controller.
> 
> There's also no mixing or anything involved, beyond some additional reverb. If something isn't sitting right, I look at it as an orchestration/performance issue, not a reason to grab EQ or compression. When I put the raw audio back into Logic to trim the dead air off the beginning and end, I just slapped Softube's Tape on it with very light settings for some "mojo." And bumped up the gain a little. So this isn't 100% out of the box, but it's damn close.



Miket,

I think in the end you could do magic with any decent orchestral VST library because it's not the library but rather your composing skills that are so amazingly great!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Having listened to Mike’s track on repeat this afternoon, I’m blown away by the soundstage of this library. There’s just so much depth to the sound with everything “in place.”

(Great bit of music too!)


----------



## CT

Noeticus said:


> Miket,
> 
> I think in the end you could do magic with any decent orchestral VST library because it's not the library but rather your composing skills that are so amazingly great!



That's too sweet, man. Don't know what to say.



Alex Fraser said:


> I’m blown away by the soundstage of this library. There’s just so much depth to the sound with everything “in place.”



It really is something. Very pristine image.


----------



## Jett Hitt

miket said:


> Thank you! Yes, I think RVW was hanging around at a few points last night.
> 
> 
> 
> I can count the number of paid projects of any sort that I've done on one hand (or less)... far from a professional, though it would be nice.
> 
> As for the programming, there's basically none, which was a relief after the last thing I tried where I was endlessly tweaking robotic MIDI and getting nowhere. I just play everything with a keyboard in one hand, vibrato in the other, and dynamics (plus expression on strings) on my breath controller.
> 
> There's also no mixing or anything involved, beyond some additional reverb. If something isn't sitting right, I look at it as an orchestration/performance issue, not a reason to grab EQ or compression. When I put the raw audio back into Logic to trim the dead air off the beginning and end, I just slapped Softube's Tape on it with very light settings for some "mojo." And bumped up the gain a little. So this isn't 100% out of the box, but it's damn close.



This says almost as much about this library as your piece. "Endlessly tweaking robotic MIDI and getting nowhere" is the perfect description of much of my VST experience. For quite a number of years, I struggled with EWHO both Gold and Diamond. I could never make it sound even remotely convincing. Oh it was listenable, mind you, but no one would ever mistake it for an orchestra. Once I graduated to better libraries, things got better, but I still found myself endlessly tweaking CSS and CSB.


----------



## robgb

hittjett said:


> Oh it was listenable, mind you, but no one would ever mistake it for an orchestra.


Why is this ever the goal? It's an impossible one. Use the tools to a) compose mockups for an actual orchestra; or b) create music that sounds great without the intent of "fooling" anyone.

Yes, laymen are easily fooled, but if your intent is to make those who regularly listen to orchestras believe a sample library is the real thing, you're probably wasting your time.


----------



## chemie262

Phaedraz said:


> Sounds good! So, wonder when it will be out then. I see no update in the Spitfire App yet.


They told me, that the update will come this week.


----------



## Loïc D

Miket, I think your cue is really great and is one of the best to sale the product.

One gripe though, I feel like the strings have a kind of abrupt release. Am I wrong ?


----------



## chemie262

LowweeK said:


> Miket, I think your cue is really great and is one of the best to sale the product.
> 
> One gripe though, I feel like the strings have a kind of abrupt release. Am I wrong ?


you can adjust the release via the big knob.


----------



## muk

Would anybody be so good as to post a simple sustained note, raising cc1 slowly from 0 to 127? One for the oboe, the horn, violins 1, and the celli, that would be awesome.


----------



## Jett Hitt

robgb said:


> Why is this ever the goal? It's an impossible one. Use the tools to a) compose mockups for an actual orchestra; or b) create music that sounds great without the intent of "fooling" anyone.



Because I am an orchestral composer. I am not looking for a finished product, but the more convincing my mockup is, the less studio time I have to waste explaining what I want. It also serves as a very valuable way for conductors to audition pieces that haven't been recorded. The more convincing the mockup, the more likely a conductor is to program the work.


----------



## CT

LowweeK said:


> One gripe though, I feel like the strings have a kind of abrupt release. Am I wrong ?



Yeah, you have to be pretty careful with the legatos, where you can't adjust the releases, or they can stop a little unnaturally. That's probably on me though; I've had that problem for a long time. Part of it is probably that I stay so close to the bottom of the dynamics so often, there's just not much more room to drop for a good _niente_.


----------



## mralmostpopular

hittjett said:


> Because I am an orchestral composer. I am not looking for a finished product, but the more convincing my mockup is, the less studio time I have to waste explaining what I want. It also serves as a very valuable way for conductors to audition pieces that haven't been recorded. The more convincing the mockup, the more likely a conductor is to program the work.



Not only that, but it ignores the reality that a ton of music today is not recorded with an orchestra, but still has an orchestral sound. This often requires you to be less flexible in your orchestrations. The better sample libraries get, the more creative freedom we have to compose how we want without it sounding fake to the average listener.


----------



## cqd

muk said:


> Would anybody be so good as to post a simple sustained note, raising cc1 slowly from 0 to 127? One for the oboe, the horn, violins 1, and the celli, that would be awesome.



OK..This is the oboe, clarinet, horn, violins1 and celli..
The first one is with CC1 rising linearly over 2 bars, the second has CC1 and CC11 both doing it..


----------



## Loïc D

miket said:


> Yeah, you have to be pretty careful with the legatos, where you can't adjust the releases, or they can stop a little unnaturally. That's probably on me though; I've had that problem for a long time. Part of it is probably that I stay so close to the bottom of the dynamics so often, there's just not much more room to drop for a good _niente_.


Thanks for your reply.
My ears are not so bad then.
Yet again, bravo for your piece of music. That’s lovely.


----------



## muk

Thank you @cqd!


----------



## Fry777

chemie262 said:


> you can adjust the release via the big knob.



There seems to be contradicting comments on this, so, is it possible to adjust the release on all the samples in the lib ?


----------



## erikradbo

Hi,

this is a post from "Members compositions" where @Mattia Chiappa has posted and shared the project files of a great composition of his made with BBCSO. It has been posted in this thread before, but here is a couple of versions for comparisons between the libraries.

Listening through the versions today (Original BBCSO, CSS/BWW/CSB/HOP close mics, CSS/BWW/CSB/HOP main mics and SCS JJ mix/BWW/CSB/HOP) here are my 5c:
-* BBCSO still wins the "could this be a real concert"-competition*. With eyes closed, this is the version that's most likely to fool me into being a concert recording.
- *CSS/BWW close mics* is a *close second in the real concert-competition*, except for the harp, but that's and easy fix. This is a good in between the expressiveness of these libraries and the mics/reverb used to make it sound fairly cohesive. Yes *strings are a bit thinner, but could be fattened* to taste with plugins.
- *CSS/BWW main mics* is really expressive, but *more of a soundtrack sound*. Probably *beats BBCSO* with a fine margin when it comes to *pure realism instrument by instrument*, but I could never imagine it being a one take live recording.
- *SCS version has a nice tone* and to me is very* similar in feel to the CSS with main mics*, but with *worse legato *transitions so a bit more machine-like in the melody lines which ruins it for me...but those string lines got much less work and love in the work than the CSS version.

So, with the question being *"do I need BBCSO", I'd say probably not.* Some more detailed work with the CSS close mic template will probably end up 95% satisfactory in terms of - the lately much used word - cohesiveness. But...how much work it takes to get there must also be taken into account, and* it seems like BBCSO is a plug and play route to get that cohesiveness.

Thanks again for a lovely piece Mattia*, I'm still not tired of hearing it, very generous of you to share the project files.


----------



## JJHLH

I agree that the BBCSO version sounds the most realistic out of the 4. 

Lovely piece!


----------



## Fleer

Indeed, BBCSO sounds most convincing.


----------



## WillMah Gold

First of all: it is a wondeful piece, Matti. And thanks to Erik for making the comparison tracks! ♥
I like the BBCSO sound until 1:45min where suddenly the good impression collapses at the climax. From this moment sounds the CSS main mic version for me the best.


----------



## 5Lives

All of those sound pretty great - job well done! Can really make out the “flaws” in BBCSO. Possibly easier to work with as well?


----------



## TeamLeader

miket said:


> That's too sweet, man. Don't know what to say.
> 
> 
> 
> It really is something. Very pristine image.



What mic choices were used on that Mike? Please forgive if already answered. The girth of this thread has killed my elderly eyeballs. (and a bunch of braincells)


----------



## CT

Just Mix 1.


----------



## Brasart

Just downloaded a 1.0.5 version of BBCSO Plugin, you might want to check your Spitfire Audio App guys!
Still no patch notes though


----------



## Zedcars

Do you know what I’d recommend, before anyone updates, is to copy the current version of the plugin safely somewhere else. Then if a new update accidentally breaks anything, you can at least keep on working.


----------



## al_net77

Brasart said:


> Just downloaded a 1.0.5 version of BBCSO Plugin, you might want to check your Spitfire Audio App guys!
> Still no patch notes though



*[1.0.5] - 2019-11-13*
*Summary*

Updated plugin release
*Changed*

Improved performance of disk streaming
*Fixed*

Fixed crash in Pro Tools when duplicating a track containing the plugin
Fixed correct UI colouring when recalling a User preset as a default preset


----------



## Bluemount Score

al_net77 said:


> *Changed*
> 
> Improved performance of disk streaming


Somebody here with an (external) SSD who could check this out? Currently not at home but curious if its loading faster now.


----------



## erikradbo

miket said:


> Here's something probably without any musical merit that I scribbled out tonight to see how smoothly I could go from paper to a passable mock-up.




Ah great piece. And regarding BBCSO, I think the tagline should be "BBCSO - Instant Cohesiveness". If this is indeed with very little programming, I'm getting more and more tempted .


----------



## I like music

We've had "studio" series, "symphony" series, "intimate" series (from different developers).

I predict 2020 will be the year of "cohesive" series. Cinematic Studio Cohesive Orchestra etc etc


----------



## John R Wilson

Just testing the 1.0.5 update. It seems to be an improvement but I'm still getting some crackles and dropouts while multiple tracks are playing. What Preload size and buffer size is everyone using?


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Just testing the 1.0.5 update. It seems to be an improvement but I'm still getting some crackles and dropouts while multiple tracks are playing. What Preload size and buffer size is everyone using?



Are you using Cubase or Logic?


----------



## John R Wilson

Benjamin Duk said:


> Are you using Cubase or Logic?



Cubase in windows


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Cubase in windows



When playing a track are you selecting a track with "record enabled" on?

I've noticed that I also get crackles when doing this, but if I select a track and turn off record enabled or just select a disabled track then the"real-time peak" goes down and you don't get crackles.

Problem with this is that if you want to have a piece play and record something as it plays then it will crackle, which kind of sucks. I have reported this to Spitfire, so hopefully they can still improve on the performance.


----------



## zolhof

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Just testing the 1.0.5 update. It seems to be an improvement but I'm still getting some crackles and dropouts while multiple tracks are playing. What Preload size and buffer size is everyone using?



I'm using Preload Size 6144, Stream Buffer 16384, Max Voices 768, Max Pitch Voices 12.

Not having issues with dropouts but loading times are worse here. The initial plugin launch jumped from 5 seconds to 17 seconds with no presets selected (both in Cubase 10 and VEPro 7, Windows 10). All instruments are taking 3 to 8 seconds longer to load. Memory consumption is exactly the same.

How is the loading time when you first launch BBCSO 1.0.5?


----------



## John R Wilson

zolhof said:


> I'm using Preload Size 6144, Stream Buffer 16384, Max Voices 768, Max Pitch Voices 12.
> 
> Not having issues with dropouts but loading times are worse here. The initial plugin launch jumped from 5 seconds to 17 seconds with no presets selected (both in Cubase 10 and VEPro 7, Windows 10). All instruments are taking 3 to 8 seconds longer to load. Memory consumption is exactly the same.
> 
> How is the loading time when you first launch BBCSO 1.0.5?



Memory consumption is exactly the same as 1.0.4 for me. Loading times when I first launch seem similar to the 1.0.4 update.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, the CPU meter isn't going all over the place, but don't really see any improvement with load times..


----------



## gtrwll

I've been beta testing the 1.0.5. for a few days or so, and it removed virtually all remaining dropouts that occurred on my system, usually on the first time that I run through a cue.


----------



## John R Wilson

Its definitely an improvement in regards to dropouts and crackles my end, especially during playback of already recorded track. The 1.0.4 update was unusable for me when playing multiple tracks. Load times are the same.


----------



## Øivind

not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but seems like The Page will get a forum






Forum — THE PAGE







www.spitfireaudiothepage.com


----------



## Eptesicus

erikradbo said:


> Hi,
> 
> this is a post from "Members compositions" where @Mattia Chiappa has posted and shared the project files of a great composition of his made with BBCSO. It has been posted in this thread before, but here is a couple of versions for comparisons between the libraries.
> 
> Listening through the versions today (Original BBCSO, CSS/BWW/CSB/HOP close mics, CSS/BWW/CSB/HOP main mics and SCS JJ mix/BWW/CSB/HOP) here are my 5c:
> -* BBCSO still wins the "could this be a real concert"-competition*. With eyes closed, this is the version that's most likely to fool me into being a concert recording.
> - *CSS/BWW close mics* is a *close second in the real concert-competition*, except for the harp, but that's and easy fix. This is a good in between the expressiveness of these libraries and the mics/reverb used to make it sound fairly cohesive. Yes *strings are a bit thinner, but could be fattened* to taste with plugins.
> - *CSS/BWW main mics* is really expressive, but *more of a soundtrack sound*. Probably *beats BBCSO* with a fine margin when it comes to *pure realism instrument by instrument*, but I could never imagine it being a one take live recording.
> - *SCS version has a nice tone* and to me is very* similar in feel to the CSS with main mics*, but with *worse legato *transitions so a bit more machine-like in the melody lines which ruins it for me...but those string lines got much less work and love in the work than the CSS version.
> 
> So, with the question being *"do I need BBCSO", I'd say probably not.* Some more detailed work with the CSS close mic template will probably end up 95% satisfactory in terms of - the lately much used word - cohesiveness. But...how much work it takes to get there must also be taken into account, and* it seems like BBCSO is a plug and play route to get that cohesiveness.
> 
> Thanks again for a lovely piece Mattia*, I'm still not tired of hearing it, very generous of you to share the project files.





CSS strings are obviously better strings. The lyrical lines sound so much better and more natural on the CSS versions.

So much so that i'm surprised so many people think the BBCSO is the best version : /

Im not saying the BBCSO version sounds bad. Far from it. It sounds good. But this comparison has further confirmed my feelings towards the strings.


----------



## Ashermusic

Eptesicus said:


> CSS strings are obviously better strings. The lyrical lines sound so much better and more natural on the CSS versions.
> 
> So much so that i'm surprised so many people think the BBCSO is the best version : /
> 
> Im not saying the BBCSO version sounds bad. Far from it. It sounds good. But this comparison has further confirmed my feelings towards the strings.



I am surprised but inclined to agree. There is a warmth to CSS that real strings have that just isn't quite there with BBCSO.


----------



## Zero&One

Eptesicus said:


> CSS strings are obviously better strings. The lyrical lines sound so much better and more natural on the CSS versions.



How is it obvious? Isn’t that an opinion?
CSS versions sound like a promo demo to me. I prefer the natural blended version of BBC.


----------



## Ashermusic

James H said:


> How is it obvious? Isn’t that an opinion?



Of course it's an opinion. Isn't that what we do here, state opinions?


----------



## Eptesicus

James H said:


> How is it obvious? Isn’t that an opinion?
> CSS versions sound like a promo demo to me. I prefer the natural blended version of BBC.



Well, yes obviously it is my opinion.

I was just stating my surprise, as for me the CSS strings, especially when tackling the expressive/lyrical lines, sound much more realistic. It is all (mostly) in the transitions. The BBCSO strings sound a little "cut off" just before each note change which gives the game away badly.


----------



## Zero&One

Ashermusic said:


> Of course it's an opinion. Isn't that what we do here, state opinions?



Exactly. But my answer was to a “it’s obvious”
And it’s not


----------



## Ashermusic

James H said:


> Exactly. But my answer was to a “it’s obvious”
> And it’s not



It's obvious to _him_. You are nitpicking.

And I will differ with him on "gives the game away badly." I would say it is a bit less believable.


----------



## Zero&One

Ashermusic said:


> It's obvious to _him_. You are nitpicking.
> 
> And I will differ with him on "gives the game away badly." I would say it is a bit less believable.



I’m not sorry. I think you’ll find you are nitpicking.
Stating it’s obvious is implying there’s no doubt to everyone.


----------



## Bluemount Score

I tried out the 1.0.5 update and the loading seemed faster to me. Not slower, at least.
After playing around for about 20 minutes, I got constant crackling / artificial noises when playing any note / instrument, made it unusable for the session. The problem began with an EXTREMELY loud distortion noise / crash sound, so loud that I now might be a little deaf and definitely a little afraid to open BBCSO again.
Fl Studio user, Windows 10, 32GB Ram, i7 8700k


----------



## Javier Gonzalez

I didn't really see much of a improvement:
* CPU usage still too high when playing busy parts (though it seems a tiny bit better? not sure)
* RAM usage over the roof (with the plugin reporting 23gb and windows saying all of my 64gb are being exhausted)
* Loading is too slow, using like 10% of the SSD transfer speed most of the time (sometimes it will go up to 50%, sometimes down to 0%, but the average is around 5-10%). It even feels as if there was some kind of speed limiter

The funny thing is that even if you open a first instance empty it will use around 500mb of ram, but as soon as you open the preset loader the RAM usage will jump to like 2.5GB (just to load the sound preview buttons!), only to go back to like 600MB after the previews are loaded.

Windows 10 pro, 64GB ram, AMD 2700x, studio one.

I'm starting to wish they just kept using kontakt... it is not funny to see BBC having pops, crackles and dead samples while the kontakt instruments play flawlessly on the background :(


----------



## AEF

Eptesicus said:


> Well, yes obviously it is my opinion.
> 
> I was just stating my surprise, as for me the CSS strings, especially when tackling the expressive/lyrical lines, sound much more realistic. It is all (mostly) in the transitions. The BBCSO strings sound a little "cut off" just before each note change which gives the game away badly.



yes for legato passages CSS is clearly superior. 

for literally everything else BBCSO gets the win IMO.


----------



## Joel Ewers

Bluemount Score said:


> I tried out the 1.0.5 update and the loading seemed faster to me. Not slower, at least.
> After playing around for about 20 minutes, I got constant crackling / artificial noises when playing any note / instrument, made it unusable for the session. The problem began with an EXTREMELY loud distortion noise / crash sound, so loud that I now might be a little deaf and definitely a little afraid to open BBCSO again.
> Fl Studio user, Windows 10, 32GB Ram, i7 8700k



Thanks for the heads up. I may hold off on updating for now. What mic positions were you using when testing out 1.0.5? Reason I ask is that I had a similar experience about a week ago, where FL crashed with a deafening white noise kind of screech, after I loaded up Mix 2 and full spill mics for all instances of BBCSO. I mean, it was so freaking loud that I ripped off my headphones and jumped back from the desk. Didn't help that I had the volume all the way up because I was fine tuning the dynamics in some soft passages. 

It's a crazy beautiful library and my only obstacles thus far, besides my own lack of orchestration experience, are the glitchy crackling and dropped notes that happen with too many different mics loaded up. So I've learned to just work with one of the mixes and only add the extras when I'm ready to render.


----------



## Jett Hitt

AEF said:


> yes for legato passages CSS is clearly superior.
> 
> for literally everything else BBCSO gets the win IMO.



When I think about the headaches of tweaking CSS legatos, I am not sure that it is worth it. I am also not convinced that the cohesion that is lost makes the better legato a win. When I listen to those 4 samples, BBCSO is the clear winner to me. It sounds remarkably like that British orchestral sound that I have long since loved. I recognized it instantly in the BBCSO track, and it went away instantly when I clicked on the others. I don't know how they did it, but it is a remarkable achievement. Maybe it's the room. Maybe it's just the BBC. Whatever it is, I love it.


----------



## erikradbo

AEF said:


> yes for legato passages CSS is clearly superior.
> 
> for literally everything else BBCSO gets the win IMO.





Ashermusic said:


> I am surprised but inclined to agree. There is a warmth to CSS that real strings have that just isn't quite there with BBCSO.





Eptesicus said:


> CSS strings are obviously better strings. The lyrical lines sound so much better and more natural on the CSS versions.
> 
> So much so that i'm surprised so many people think the BBCSO is the best version : /
> 
> Im not saying the BBCSO version sounds bad. Far from it. It sounds good. But this comparison has further confirmed my feelings towards the strings.



Regardless of opinion, one should keep in mind that this is a piece made with and for BBCSO:
- most of the cc action from BBCSO is kept instead of creating new cc and midi timing optimized for those libraries used for comparison
- a minimum of mixing effort has gone into this to make it more or less an out-of-the-box comparison, so a lower level of cohesiveness is expected with libraries recorded in three different spaces

Someone said they were trying out EWHWO and SSO which would at least make it a more fair comparison on the second point.

It would be great to have a comparison the other way around as well, say with this great CSS Harry potter mockup by @NoamL from a couple of years ago: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/css-williams-magic.64674/ . How would this sound if translated into BBCSO?


----------



## ism

Eptesicus said:


> CSS strings are obviously better strings. The lyrical lines sound so much better and more natural on the CSS versions.
> 
> So much so that i'm surprised so many people think the BBCSO is the best version : /
> 
> Im not saying the BBCSO version sounds bad. Far from it. It sounds good. But this comparison has further confirmed my feelings towards the strings.



There's certainly a technical level on which this is true . But CSS also has a very "studio" sound to it.

At its best, kind of high romantic and entirely wonderful.

But in a context that doesn't call for an Elgar-esque or hollywood-studio-eseque feeling, it sounds kind of , I don't quite know how to express it, but kind of "claustrophobic".

And its in this kind of context where SCS and BBCSO feel so better.

BBCSO especially is very much at the "non-claustrophobic" end of the spectrum. In so far as "claustrophobic" is the right word. Entirely wonderful and entirely a different thing from what CSS is good at.

But its wholly a contextual effect.


----------



## erikradbo

hittjett said:


> When I think about the headaches of tweaking CSS legatos, I am not sure that it is worth it. I am also not convinced that the cohesion that is lost makes the better legato a win. When I listen to those 4 samples, BBCSO is the clear winner to me. It sounds remarkably like that British orchestral sound that I have long since loved. I recognized it instantly in the BBCSO track, and it went away instantly when I clicked on the others. I don't know how they did it, but it is a remarkable achievement. Maybe it's the room. Maybe it's just the BBC. Whatever it is, I love it.


Ah yes, agreed with all the CSS legato fuss. And I do agree with the sound, but I still would like a fair and blind comparison and not just these quick and dirty ones.

Still there's hope I will end up not feeling I need it ...


----------



## Bluemount Score

Joel Ewers said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I may hold off on updating for now. What mic positions were you using when testing out 1.0.5? Reason I ask is that I had a similar experience about a week ago, where FL crashed with a deafening white noise kind of screech, after I loaded up Mix 2 and full spill mics for all instances of BBCSO. I mean, it was so freaking loud that I ripped off my headphones and jumped back from the desk. Didn't help that I had the volume all the way up because I was fine tuning the dynamics in some soft passages.
> 
> It's a crazy beautiful library and my only obstacles thus far, besides my own lack of orchestration experience, are the glitchy crackling and dropped notes that happen with too many different mics loaded up. So I've learned to just work with one of the mixes and only add the extras when I'm ready to render.


All Mix 1
Nah wait, I think I added balcony and ambient mic (while playing solo clarinet legato).


----------



## Living Fossil

erikradbo said:


> Regardless of opinion, one should keep in mind that this is a piece made with and for BBCSO:
> - most of the cc action from BBCSO is kept instead of creating new cc and midi timing optimized for those libraries used for comparison
> - a minimum of mixing effort has gone into this to make it more or less an out-of-the-box comparison, so a lower level of cohesiveness is expected with libraries recorded in three different spaces



Honestly, your rendering of Mattia's great piece "Closure" made it clear to me that i indeed would not need BBCSO as initially planed, or at least not in the near future. 
It seems obvious that BBCSO gives lots of homogeneity out of the box, maybe more than most other libraries.
However, the longer i listen to several (often very good) demos, my impression about this out-of-the-box-homogeneity is, that it's not what i'm after. It's kind of a sonic Fata Morgana, since it first appears to be very real, but soon unveils it's unreal nature.
Where, on the other side, libraries that offer deeper sampling without instant gratification maybe take more effort and give results that don't are necessarily so "naturalistic" in their sense of space, but are somehow sexier sounding. Maybe i do, in fact, prefer more heterogeneity.

I thought a while about how to describe the feeling that the BBCSO sound (as heard on demos) gives me and i think a good comparison (on an emotional level) is the following video, where at some point you realise the colors weren't real.




Nevertheless, the new MacBookPro that can handle 64GB of Ram, indicates where the real value of BBCSO could be: a great sketching tool outside of the studio.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Living Fossil said:


> I thought a while about how to describe the feeling that the BBCSO sound (as heard on demos) gives me and i think a good comparison (on an emotional level) is the following video, where at some point you realise the colors weren't real.


While I don't quite get the comparison to the sound of BBCSO (even on an emotional level), that was a pretty cool optical illusion indeed!


----------



## erikradbo

Living Fossil said:


> Honestly, your rendering of Mattia's great piece "Closure" made it clear to me that i indeed would not need BBCSO as initially planed, or at least not in the near future.
> It seems obvious that BBCSO gives lots of homogeneity out of the box, maybe more than most other libraries.
> However, the longer i listen to several (often very good) demos, my impression about this out-of-the-box-homogeneity is, that it's not what i'm after. It's kind of a sonic Fata Morgana, since it first appears to be very real, but soon unveils it's unreal nature.
> Where, on the other side, libraries that offer deeper sampling without instant gratification maybe take more effort and give results that don't are necessarily so "naturalistic" in their sense of space, but are somehow sexier sounding. Maybe i do, in fact, prefer more heterogeneity.
> 
> I thought a while about how to describe the feeling that the BBCSO sound (as heard on demos) gives me and i think a good comparison (on an emotional level) is the following video, where at some point you realise the colors weren't real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nevertheless, the new MacBookPro that can handle 64GB of Ram, indicates where the real value of BBCSO could be: a great sketching tool outside of the studio.




I totally get what you mean, even though I haven't ended up there yet, and I'm not sure that other libraries actually are truer in their colors. But I do like your analogy.


----------



## ism

Living Fossil said:


> Honestly, your rendering of Mattia's great piece "Closure" made it clear to me that i indeed would not need BBCSO as initially planed, or at least not in the near future.
> It seems obvious that BBCSO gives lots of homogeneity out of the box, maybe more than most other libraries.
> However, the longer i listen to several (often very good) demos, my impression about this out-of-the-box-homogeneity is, that it's not what i'm after. It's kind of a sonic Fata Morgana, since it first appears to be very real, but soon unveils it's unreal nature.
> Where, on the other side, libraries that offer deeper sampling without instant gratification maybe take more effort and give results that don't are necessarily so "naturalistic" in their sense of space, but are somehow sexier sounding. Maybe i do, in fact, prefer more heterogeneity.
> 
> I thought a while about how to describe the feeling that the BBCSO sound (as heard on demos) gives me and i think a good comparison (on an emotional level) is the following video, where at some point you realise the colors weren't real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nevertheless, the new MacBookPro that can handle 64GB of Ram, indicates where the real value of BBCSO could be: a great sketching tool outside of the studio.




I have only a glimmering of what you might mean. The deeper sampling of CSS, for instance, I know to be there on an intellectual level, but I just don't feel it. Emotionally the quality of the sound and the mix is by far the more important effect.

Where perhaps I do feel a need for deeper sampling is perhaps in occasional wind lines to have soloists flourishes that could be played just a little more lyrically. Sounds great on a first pass ... but especially if you compare to a real flautist, for instance, there's a depth of expression that is clearly missing. 


But this is a larger issue in sample libraries in general. A general purpose team-playing library doesn't do what a hyper-lyrical individual soloist library can do and vice versa.

So you could add a hyper lyrical violin (ie the Bohemian, or from Spitfire solo strings) to a piece and it's obviously going to go places the leader Vl of BBCSS isn't. But similarly you wouldn't expect the soloist-oriented library to play well enough with others to sink seamlessly back into the mix when there soloistic moment has passed.

Simply with woodwinds - I love SSW, but occasionally I move to Claire of fluffy (or BWW Exp2 if I had it) when I need something more lyrical. Which isn't quite the same as deeply sampled. The Claire instruments aren't really more deeply sample, just more lyrically sampled. Whereas the fluffy Clarinet, for instance, is legitimately more deeply sampled - though I'm happy not to have a 1G clarinet most of the time, and only bring it out occasionally.


----------



## Guffy

Joel Ewers said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I may hold off on updating for now. What mic positions were you using when testing out 1.0.5? Reason I ask is that I had a similar experience about a week ago, where FL crashed with a deafening white noise kind of screech, after I loaded up Mix 2 and full spill mics for all instances of BBCSO. I mean, it was so freaking loud that I ripped off my headphones and jumped back from the desk. Didn't help that I had the volume all the way up because I was fine tuning the dynamics in some soft passages.
> 
> It's a crazy beautiful library and my only obstacles thus far, besides my own lack of orchestration experience, are the glitchy crackling and dropped notes that happen with too many different mics loaded up. So I've learned to just work with one of the mixes and only add the extras when I'm ready to render.


I've reported this so i know they're aware. 
In the meantime, let me know if you figure out a solution.


----------



## Living Fossil

erikradbo said:


> I totally get what you mean, even though I haven't ended up there yet, and I'm not sure that other libraries actually are truer in their colors.



I think the expression "truer in their colours" is not exactly what i mean...
When i'm listening to music, specially to orchestras, in live concerts, i usually have quite strong synaesthetic perceptions. Which i don't have when i listen to most orchestral recordings.
However, i found out that in the realm of produced music (i.e. music that is not listened to live) i really like things that exceed the mere try to "conserve" a live situation.
(P.S. there was an excellent and very informative post by @Beat Kaufmann some months ago, where he pointed out some techniques that are used in modern orchestral recordings)

When producing music, e.g. i sometimes like to record strings with very closed mic positions. So you can get overtones present that usually would vanish over the distance of a couple of meters. Which is similar to augmented reality of photography.
Or i like the combination of different rooms at one time.
Etc.
Basically, i could say that i prefer non-realism in some aspects* to a photo-copied reality.
The sound of BBCSO reminds me a bit of some classical Decca recordings from the analog era.
(i haven't heard any demos so far that feature more the closed mics, maybe they would change my perception)

*Perfectly pure octaves in strings or brass or woodwinds however is kind of non-realism which i can absolutely not stand. That's maybe the most terrible acoustic thing that can happen in orchestral mockups.


----------



## I like music

Living Fossil said:


> *Perfectly pure octaves in strings or brass or woodwinds however is kind of non-realism which i can absolutely not stand. That's maybe the most terrible acoustic thing that can happen in orchestral mockups.



Would you mind explaining? Would love to know what you mean. Is this something to do with how players who are playing octaves in the same ensemble, would intone differently to if I just took Vlns 1 and Vlns 2 and put them in at octaves in my DAW?


----------



## Living Fossil

I like music said:


> Would you mind explaining? Would love to know what you mean. Is this something to do with how players who are playing octaves in the same ensemble, would intone differently to if I just took Vlns 1 and Vlns 2 and put them in at octaves in my DAW?



In real life, they try to intone in the most perfectly pure possible way. However, they won't reach this perfection. There are always some little fluctuations if played non vibrato. And with vibrato there is no perfection by defnition because the vibratos of the different players are not perfectly synced.
The problem in mockups usually arises with fast runs etc. where the purity that samples offer - even if not perfect - is much too high in comparison to real life. If you analyse sonograms of runs played by real orchestras, you will see kind of blurred lines. Those please our ears, while those exact octaves _jump out of the picture _and suggest to our brain that there is kind of a synth playing.
(however, we went off topic, sorry for that....)


----------



## erikradbo

Living Fossil said:


> I think the expression "truer in their colours" is not exactly what i mean...
> When i'm listening to music, specially to orchestras, in live concerts, i usually have quite strong synaesthetic perceptions. Which i don't have when i listen to most orchestral recordings.
> However, i found out that in the realm of produced music (i.e. music that is not listened to live) i really like things that exceed the mere try to "conserve" a live situation.
> (P.S. there was an excellent and very informative post by @Beat Kaufmann some months ago, where he pointed out some techniques that are used in modern orchestral recordings)
> 
> When producing music, e.g. i sometimes like to record strings with very closed mic positions. So you can get overtones present that usually would vanish over the distance of a couple of meters. Which is similar to augmented reality of photography.
> Or i like the combination of different rooms at one time.
> Etc.
> Basically, i could say that i prefer non-realism in some aspects* to a photo-copied reality.
> The sound of BBCSO reminds me a bit of some classical Decca recordings from the analog era.
> (i haven't heard any demos so far that feature more the closed mics, maybe they would change my perception)
> 
> *Perfectly pure octaves in strings or brass or woodwinds however is kind of non-realism which i can absolutely not stand. That's maybe the most terrible acoustic thing that can happen in orchestral mockups.



I see. What I got from your first post was something along the lines how many felt towards 3D rendering. It was a race towards making it look as real as possible, and since our eyes wasn't used to it at times we thought at time it looked real already back in, say, 1999. But as our eyes got used to distinguish the differences between rendered images and real photos, it fell apart, and now we don't think the renderings from these days look real at all. We therefor often preferred renderings that in obvious ways differed from reality which made us less annoyed with the fake feeling. (Then, eventually, 3D rendering got so good that for certain objects, we now really cannot see the difference).

But that was not at all what you meant. One should always be careful about knowing what someone else means.


----------



## Cormast

1.0.5 make it worse here. Impossible to play correctly with differents patches at the same time. CPU usage much more important, many crackles and pops while trying to play. Library still unusable for me...

My computer : Win 10 / Cubase 10 / i7-6700k / Buffers 2048 / 54Gp RAM

Preload size: 6144
Stream Buffer Size: 8192
Maximum Pitch Voices: 12
Enable memory mappin : off

3 weeks hoping to use it proprely. Still not possible.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Cormast said:


> 1.0.5 make it worse here. Impossible to play correctly with differents patches at the same time. CPU usage much more important, many crackles and pops while trying to play. Library still unusable for me...
> 
> My computer : Win 10 / Cubase 10 / i7-6700k / Buffers 2048 / 54Gp RAM
> 
> Preload size: 6144
> Stream Buffer Size: 8192
> Maximum Pitch Voices: 12
> Enable memory mappin : off
> 
> 3 weeks hoping to use it proprely. Still not possible.



Just curious....what are you using for a sound card/interface?


----------



## mralmostpopular

Just listened to Mattia’s demo. Wow. It’s probably the best example, Ive heard from the library.

When comparing them, I really like BBCSO. The CSS close version sounds very good, but has more of an overdubbed studio recording sound. The libraries don’t sound like they’re in the same space playing together. It’s subtle, and probably largely unnoticeable without the comparison.

I do notice that the expression of CSS seems better. It also sounds like a larger orchestra, whether the actual sections are of similar size or not. I think if Spitfire is able to tweak the playback of BBCSO a tiny bit more to fix the complaints about the strings, you’ll have something really nice.

If I’m choosing a version right now, it would be BBCSO. It just feels a bit more British, and a little less Hollywood.


----------



## Cormast

Wolfie2112 said:


> Just curious....what are you using for a sound card/interface?


Komplete audio 6


----------



## Noeticus

Warning: Warning: POST 7000 ahead.


----------



## Vik

Noeticus said:


> Warning: Warning: POST 7000 ahead.


I wish there was a way to show only posts that contained musical examples (SoundCloud links, YouTube clips etc).


----------



## Noeticus

Perhaps search for BBCSO on SoundCloud???


----------



## NoamL

AEF said:


> yes for legato passages CSS is clearly superior. for literally everything else BBCSO gets the win IMO.



If you listen to the cello section soli at 1:19 in @Mattia Chiappa 's piece you will hear why I love CSS  listen also to the repeated notes in the violin figure at 1:39. In addition what @erikradbo said certainly applies, about the MIDI being adapted.

The two best user demos posted here so far (@Mattia Chiappa & @miket ) are mostly impressive because they are very nice compositions. Well written & well orchestrated by guys who know their craft.

The music is not challenging for VIs though. At all. It's medium-paced legato melodies against homophonic chordal backgrounds or a contrapuntal background of other medium-paced lines. People have been writing this kind of music for VIs since the VSL days. That is why I like mocking up pieces that are either classical or written for live orchestra without an intermediate VI step, because those composers saw that kind of texture as only one element in their palette and they didn't shy away from writing things that turn out to be very difficult for VI's.

Just the old classic John Williams style triplets for example,* GEG GEG GEG GEG* at like 135 bpm, turn out to be a challenge because of so many factors. The repetition of the same legato intervals ("machine gun" effect). The need for a G-G rebow sample. The overall speed of the passage.

There is a reason VI music has those nice paddy homophonic accompaniments and then when you look at Williams you see, like:






and:




And we're all sitting here with our VI's going 


In the end lots of us own lots of samples (too many samples, even!  ) and the appeal of a new library is if it can fill in the cracks and handle a task at which our current tools stumble.


----------



## CT

You're right of course, Noam. Tackling very dense and active classical or "old school" film music quickly shows you how much room there is to grow with virtual instruments. It's all mostly to do with playability, which is why the modeling approach seems so promising, but sonically there is a *long* way to go, there. My money is on advancements in programming with traditional samples over modeling.

Then again, some of Andy's demos show us that such things aren't totally out of reach, even now....


----------



## NoamL

Yes and reading back that post, I didn't mean to imply that CSS/CSB nails everything - there's lots of classical stuff that's a challenge for it as well!


----------



## CT

Those rocking triplet accompaniments that Williams does... as soon as I see that in a score when looking for something to mock-up, I move on to something else.


----------



## CT

Also, Noam... reading you describe me as "knowing my craft" really means a lot. I'm incredibly skeptical about my abilities. The positivity you folks have given me in this thread is deeply appreciated.


----------



## AEF

NoamL said:


> If you listen to the cello section soli at 1:19 in @Mattia Chiappa 's piece you will hear why I love CSS  listen also to the repeated notes in the violin figure at 1:39. In addition what @erikradbo said certainly applies, about the MIDI being adapted.
> 
> The two best user demos posted here so far (@Mattia Chiappa & @miket ) are mostly impressive because they are very nice compositions. Well written & well orchestrated by guys who know their craft.
> 
> The music is not challenging for VIs though. At all. It's medium-paced legato melodies against homophonic chordal backgrounds or a contrapuntal background of other medium-paced lines. People have been writing this kind of music for VIs since the VSL days. That is why I like mocking up pieces that are either classical or written for live orchestra without an intermediate VI step, because those composers saw that kind of texture as only one element in their palette and they didn't shy away from writing things that turn out to be very difficult for VI's.
> 
> Just the old classic John Williams style triplets for example,* GEG GEG GEG GEG* at like 135 bpm, turn out to be a challenge because of so many factors. The repetition of the same legato intervals ("machine gun" effect). The need for a G-G rebow sample. The overall speed of the passage.
> 
> There is a reason VI music has those nice paddy homophonic accompaniments and then when you look at Williams you see, like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we're all sitting here with our VI's going
> 
> 
> In the end lots of us own lots of samples (too many samples, even!  ) and the appeal of a new library is if it can fill in the cracks and handle a task at which our current tools stumble.




I think it comes down to behavior versus instrument sound.

CSS has much better behavior as far as what you can program, particularly with legatos. But it, and more particularly CSB never sounds like an actual real instrument to me. IMO it has to do with these things:

-the room, which doesnt provide enough front to back depth, and not enough frequency content at the high and low edges
-the difficulty in performing a passage versus programming it.

of course these things are the tradeoff, and i do believe it is a real tradeoff, where the amazing legatos are achieved at the expense of being able to as a keyboard player expressively perform the part.


----------



## Cormast

Is there a way of tweaking volumes of the articulations of one instrument in only one instance of the plugin ?

I found out that i could use 10 instances with 10 differents patches (didn't try more, but it seem possible) with no pops or crackles if there is only these 10 instances loaded in the template. But usually when I make a complete template, I load one track per articulation for each instrument, and BBCSSO doesn't allow to tweak volume between articulations in one instance of the plugin (Kontakt does), or I missed something.
It troubles a bit my workflow for now.

My computer : Win 10 / Cubase 10 / i7-6700k / 54 Go RAM / Komplete audio 6 / Buffers 2048


----------



## Bluemount Score

AEF said:


> I think it comes down to behavior versus instrument sound.
> 
> CSS has much better behavior as far as what you can program, particularly with legatos. But it, and more particularly CSB never sounds like an actual real instrument to me. IMO it has to do with these things:
> 
> -the room, which doesnt provide enough front to back depth, and not enough frequency content at the high and low edges
> -the difficulty in performing a passage versus programming it.
> 
> of course these things are the tradeoff, and i do believe it is a real tradeoff, where the amazing legatos are achieved at the expense of being able to as a keyboard player expressively perform the part.


While CSS still is my absolut favorite and I'm really looking forward to get my hands on CSB, I see your points. A different room and / or more mic positions could make an even better / more flexible library out of it. This is where BBCSO really shows off. As well as playability - CSS is the worst when it comes to live performing, BBCSO's extended legato the best. I got used to it. Fairly often by using my mouse instead of my keyboard, though.


----------



## gtrwll

Thought to share this here as well. Here's a theme I finished today, trying out how BBCSO blends with my other libraries (or vice versa).





Piano is The Grandeur and the choir Olympus Elements.


----------



## redlester

Living Fossil said:


> The sound of BBCSO reminds me a bit of some classical Decca recordings from the analog era.
> (i haven't heard any demos so far that feature more the closed mics, maybe they would change my perception)



When I played around with the mono mic I absolutely loved the sound of it. I only had time to play with it for a few minutes and haven't got back to it yet, but mixing the mono mic with some of the spill mics, at least via headphones sounded very inspiring. My thoughts instantly went from colour to black & white.


----------



## ridgero

gtrwll said:


> Thought to share this here as well. Here's a theme I finished today, trying out how BBCSO blends with my other libraries (or vice versa).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Piano is The Grandeur and the choir Olympus Elements.




This is marvelous @gtrwll

Thanks for sharing!


----------



## mobiuscog

Apologies if I've missed it in passing, but has anyone done an example of BBCSO in a 'smaller setting (quarter / chamber) ? I know that's not necessarily what it was aimed at, but wondering how well it can adapt in that respect.

Thanks.


----------



## CT

mobiuscog said:


> Apologies if I've missed it in passing, but has anyone done an example of BBCSO in a 'smaller setting (quarter / chamber) ? I know that's not necessarily what it was aimed at, but wondering how well it can adapt in that respect.
> 
> Thanks.



I've played around with that idea a bit. I think it works very well. The middle section of the Bach orchestration that I did last week is for string quartet, piccolo, oboe, horn, trumpet, harp, celesta, and a couple of percussion instruments. The crisp detail of the string leaders especially sounds great in the context of a smaller ensemble.


----------



## Brasart

mobiuscog said:


> Apologies if I've missed it in passing, but has anyone done an example of BBCSO in a 'smaller setting (quarter / chamber) ? I know that's not necessarily what it was aimed at, but wondering how well it can adapt in that respect.
> 
> Thanks.



I've shared this earlier in the thread : 
It's solo strings only, using mics: Close, CloseW, Mix1 & Mids IIRC
No additional treatment

I'll share more BBCSO tracks as soon as I can, will try to do a full chamber-like arrangement too as I love how close mics and solo instruments are sounding from this library


----------



## Zero&One

Cormast said:


> Is there a way of tweaking volumes of the articulations of one instrument in only one instance of the plugin ?
> 
> I found out that i could use 10 instances with 10 differents patches (didn't try more, but it seem possible) with no pops or crackles if there is only these 10 instances loaded in the template.



Hi

Select 1st articulation. Open Mics page. Set Global slider to OFF
Change volumes & Mics
Select next articulation. Repeat with Volumes/mics
And so on

I just tested it on Mac and works


----------



## Zedcars

mobiuscog said:


> Apologies if I've missed it in passing, but has anyone done an example of BBCSO in a 'smaller setting (quarter / chamber) ? I know that's not necessarily what it was aimed at, but wondering how well it can adapt in that respect.
> 
> Thanks.


I posted a divisi strings example on Tuesday...





__





Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


They just don't sound convincing. As in every time i hear the strings come in on these demos everyone is posting i immediately think "sample". Simply put - plenty of other products do strings better Yeah, I agree, I’ve only heard one or two demos that don’t sound “synthy”. I can assure you...



vi-control.net





So, essentially 8 players (4 on the upper and lower parts), although using the different articulations to try to create a different sound between them.


----------



## Cormast

James H said:


> Hi
> 
> Select 1st articulation. Open Mics page. Set Global slider to OFF
> Change volumes & Mics
> Select next articulation. Repeat with Volumes/mics
> And so on
> 
> I just tested it on Mac and works


Thank you so much !


----------



## Saigen

I wrote a short cue before I went to work yesterday on my new Mac setup since Windows was absolute shite. Took me about 20-30 minutes to cook this up, and I'm very much impressed with how it turned out so quickly as no mixing had to be done whatsoever.


----------



## Øivind

So, i was having really slow load times since the start, around 2mins for the Lead Violin 1 patch via the Spitfire BBCO SSD, it was playable maybe after 1 minute.

Discovered that all my other USB-C cables are utter crap!

Using the cable that came with the SSD increased my read speed 11x (crystaldisk). Loading the whole Lead Violin 1 patch now takes ~15 seconds and is playable within ~7 seconds.

I never used the cable that came with the drive because it is very short.

This is somehting that i should have known and i have contacted the company where i bought my USB cables to hear what they have to say.

Sorry for pestering support about this!


----------



## dzilizzi

oivind_rosvold said:


> So, i was having really slow load times since the start, around 2mins for the Lead Violin 1 patch via the Spitfire BBCO SSD, it was playable maybe after 1 minute.
> 
> Discovered that all my other USB-C cables are utter crap!
> 
> Using the cable that came with the SSD increased my read speed 11x (crystaldisk). Loading the whole Lead Violin 1 patch now takes ~15 seconds and is playable within ~7 seconds.
> 
> I never used the cable that came with the drive because it is very short.
> 
> This is somehting that i should have known and i have contacted the company where i bought my USB cables to hear what they have to say.
> 
> Sorry for pestering support about this!


i really wish there was a reliable way to test cables. I've had this happen a lot where they seem to be working, but not quite good enough that you can tell the problems you are having is because the cable is bad.


----------



## Noeticus

Saigen said:


> I wrote a short cue before I went to work yesterday on my new Mac setup since Windows was absolute shite. Took me about 20-30 minutes to cook this up, and I'm very much impressed with how it turned out so quickly as no mixing had to be done whatsoever.




Wow! This is truly amazing! Awesome work!


----------



## Zedcars

oivind_rosvold said:


> So, i was having really slow load times since the start, around 2mins for the Lead Violin 1 patch via the Spitfire BBCO SSD, it was playable maybe after 1 minute.
> 
> Discovered that all my other USB-C cables are utter crap!
> 
> Using the cable that came with the SSD increased my read speed 11x (crystaldisk). Loading the whole Lead Violin 1 patch now takes ~15 seconds and is playable within ~7 seconds.
> 
> I never used the cable that came with the drive because it is very short.
> 
> This is somehting that i should have known and i have contacted the company where i bought my USB cables to hear what they have to say.
> 
> Sorry for pestering support about this!


This doesn’t surprise me. The drive manufacturers make them short not because they are stingy, but because it really does affect the speed quite drastically. I discovered that my WiFi was interfering with my drive cables so I turned the WiFi off and switched to Ethernet cable for my Internet. It helped immediately. USB SSD cables absolutely must be shielded and the thicker the better.


----------



## haus.media

May I ask, if not a dumb question, at least a very rudimentary question...I believe. Why is the legato articulation limited to one note as opposed to the longs and others which allow multiple notes to be played at once? I thought the polyphony on my new keyboard was whacked...thanks in advance.


----------



## erikradbo

haus.media said:


> May I ask, if not a dumb question, at least a very rudimentary question...I believe. Why is the legato articulation limited to one note as opposed to the longs and others which allow multiple notes to be played at once? I thought the polyphony on my new keyboard was whacked...thanks in advance.



Most legato patches work like that. If you play polyphonically the patch doesn't know which transition to play when you change the notes, since the legato patch tries to emulate the sound of players making transitions between notes. There are a few libraries that have polyphonic legato patches but BBCSO isn't one of them AFAIK.


----------



## haus.media

erikradbo said:


> Most legato patches work like that. If you play polyphonically the patch doesn't know which transition to play when you change the notes, since the legato patch tries to emulate the sound of players making transitions between notes. There are a few libraries that have polyphonic legato patches but BBCSO isn't one of them AFAIK.


Thanks! It makes perfect sense now.


----------



## Saigen

haus.media said:


> Thanks! It makes perfect sense now.



There is a way you can still make it work polyphonically.
If you use expression maps and add legato patch to multiple channels within the same patch, you can make it work without an issue; insofar as you're willing to put in the extra effort for it.

Edit: Forgot to elaborate on this. If the first patch is channel 1, second channel 2, third 3, so on so forth you can simply use expressions to guide them. I don't know what it's like for Logic, but in Cubase it's a real easy feat to accomplish. Write everything out in the sustain patch and then drag the midi data over and assign the channels to the notes.


----------



## haus.media

Saigen said:


> There is a way you can still make it work polyphonically.
> If you use expression maps and add legato patch to multiple channels within the same patch, you can make it work without an issue; insofar as you're willing to put in the extra effort for it.
> 
> Edit: Forgot to elaborate on this. If the first patch is channel 1, second channel 2, third 3, so on so forth you can simply use expressions to guide them. I don't know what it's like for Logic, but in Cubase it's a real easy feat to accomplish. Write everything out in the sustain patch and then drag the midi data over and assign the channels to the notes.


@Saigen I probably have enough to tackle with just the tools that I've been gifted (well, paid for) already but it's good to know that the possibility is there if I feel limited or want to expand my palette. Thanks!


----------



## ridgero

dzilizzi said:


> i really wish there was a reliable way to test cables. I've had this happen a lot where they seem to be working, but not quite good enough that you can tell the problems you are having is because the cable is bad.



Try Blackmagic Disk Speed


----------



## dzilizzi

ridgero said:


> Try Blackmagic Disk Speed


I'm a PC. But actually my problem has been with peripherals, like a keyboard. It works, but not quite as it should. I change out the cable and everything is working fine. But it could also be that they don't carry sufficient power from the USB port but with a powered peripheral, they are fine.


----------



## JJHLH

Would BBCSO pair well with Eric Whitacre Choir?


----------



## CT

It definitely does!


----------



## Noeticus

JJHLH said:


> Would BBCSO pair well with Eric Whitacre Choir?



What doesn't.


----------



## JJHLH

Haha! Awesome, thanks guys!


----------



## erikradbo

Zedcars said:


> Here's another excerpt from my 'War Child' piece. I've simulated divisi by using the legato, con sordino, flautando, and sul tasto arcs from the two violin leaders and put one of each on its own track (new instance). I recorded each track separately to simulate independent players, and also recorded the dynamics and vibrato independently. Mix 2, with some extra IR reverb within the plugin. I also panned some players very slightly away from each other:



Def one of the more convincing string passage so far from this library. There is a lot of that room though, making it both muddy and realistic, which makes comparisons harder. Sounds really nice!


----------



## Fleer

Anxiously waiting for my BBCSO to arrive, particularly in order to play those strings.


----------



## madfloyd

Fleer said:


> Anxiously waiting for my BBCSO to arrive, particularly in order to play those strings.



are you mac or pc?


----------



## Fleer

Mac


----------



## AllanH

Fleer said:


> Anxiously waiting for my BBCSO to arrive, particularly in order to play those strings.


You're in for a treat. Enjoy


----------



## mralmostpopular

Fleer said:


> Anxiously waiting for my BBCSO to arrive, particularly in order to play those strings.



Mine come soon, as well.


----------



## PerryD

I think most of us here intend to use BBCSO with our existing libraries. I used the celeste, celli, pizzicato basses and cor Anglais from BBCSO. Added some CSS marcato ensemble and used SM violin and viola ensembles for the lyrical parts. I think it all blends nicely...BBCSO seems to create a good foundation.


----------



## erica-grace

PerryD said:


> I think most of us here intend to use BBCSO with our existing libraries. I used the celeste, celli, pizzicato basses and cor Anglais from BBCSO. Added some CSS marcato ensemble and used SM violin and viola ensembles for the lyrical parts. I think it all blends nicely...BBCSO seems to create a good foundation.




Very nice! 

I wanted to hear more, however :(


----------



## PerryD

erica-grace said:


> Very nice!
> 
> I wanted to hear more, however :(


 Thanks! Work in progress.


----------



## Jay Panikkar

I'm glad I passed on this at the last moment, I would have deeply regretted it otherwise. I was expecting something more than a loosely put together "sketching" library, so this is not for me.


----------



## erica-grace

Jay Panikkar said:


> I'm glad I passed on this at the last moment, I would have deeply regretted it otherwise. I was expecting something more than a loosely put together "sketching" library, so this is not for me.



I don't have BBSCO. And while I agree that outside of the spill mics, and a different flavor, this brings nothing new to the table, I wouldn't call this a "sketching" library.


----------



## jbuhler

PerryD said:


> I think most of us here intend to use BBCSO with our existing libraries. I used the celeste, celli, pizzicato basses and cor Anglais from BBCSO. Added some CSS marcato ensemble and used SM violin and viola ensembles for the lyrical parts. I think it all blends nicely...BBCSO seems to create a good foundation.



For me, if I got BBCSO, I'd hope it could serve as the base library for the template, which other libraries could supplement to bring more detail and expression but where BBCSO would provide cohesion and basic balance, also (hopefully) a reasonable amount of programming consistency across instruments to speed up the compositional phase. So far, I've been impressed with how the library seems to allow users to get quickly to a reasonably credible sound, even if that sound is somewhat limited. And the sound of the orchestra itself is most appealing. 

Even with all the user demos that have been shared, I'm less sure how well it would take to adding something like say SCS for more detailed articulations but with the strong sonic imprint of Air to it. I can see adding BBCSO to SCS, but going that direction would seem to undo a lot of the advantages of BBCSO. So for those of you who have BBCSO, what's been your experience with layering other libraries with BBCSO in order to get more detail, dynamic layers, expressivity, what not? Is it relatively easy to retain the cohesive quality of BBCSO as you layer those other libraries with it?


----------



## ed buller

Jay Panikkar said:


> I'm glad I passed on this at the last moment, I would have deeply regretted it otherwise. I was expecting something more than a loosely put together "sketching" library, so this is not for me.


that's NOT what it is !

best

e


----------



## AllanH

jbuhler said:


> For me, ... So far, I've been impressed with how the library seems to allow users to get quickly to a reasonably credible sound, even if that sound is somewhat limited. And the sound of the orchestra itself is most appealing.
> ...



This is exactly the "sweet spot" with the BBCSO for me. The tone is beautifully resonant without the fat tail of Air, which allows me to combine it with other libraries fairly easily. I still think Air Hall has a certain magic, especially for brass, but BBCSO can easily stand on its own for the vast amount of music I write.


----------



## ridgero

Jay Panikkar said:


> I'm glad I passed on this at the last moment, I would have deeply regretted it otherwise. I was expecting something more than a loosely put together "sketching" library, so this is not for me.



And that’s exactly what it not is, a sketching library. Is it just trolling or do you have an explanation?


----------



## Fleer

AllanH said:


> This is exactly the "sweet spot" with the BBCSO for me. The tone is beautifully resonant without the fat tail of Air, which allows me to combine it with other libraries fairly easily. I still think Air Hall has a certain magic, especially for brass, but BBCSO can easily stand on its own for the vast amount of music I write.


Man, am I going to enjoy this


----------



## Noeticus

I still believe the consensus on the Spitfire BBCSO library
is that it is definitely good enough to buy, but not great enough
to dissuade you from buying other similar libraries.


----------



## Denkii

7k


----------



## Noeticus

7000 posts... Oh, what fun!


----------



## robgb

hittjett said:


> The more convincing the mockup, the more likely a conductor is to program the work.


Well, that's sad. You would think a conductor would be able to hear it regardless.


----------



## gtrwll

I wanted to try out the less common (at least for me) string articulations, as I've never really used harmonics before. I'm not even sure I have a library that has them, at least not to this extent. In addition I thought to try to compose from a different viewpoint, and try to keep it as minimal as I can. That's hard! 

Anyway, here's the track:


----------



## Noeticus

gtrwll said:


> I wanted to try out the less common (at least for me) string articulations, as I've never really used harmonics before. I'm not even sure I have a library that has them, at least not to this extent. In addition I thought to try to compose from a different viewpoint, and try to keep it as minimal as I can. That's hard!
> 
> Anyway, here's the track:




This is friggin' AMAZING!!!


----------



## Zedcars

gtrwll said:


> I wanted to try out the less common (at least for me) string articulations, as I've never really used harmonics before. I'm not even sure I have a library that has them, at least not to this extent. In addition I thought to try to compose from a different viewpoint, and try to keep it as minimal as I can. That's hard!
> 
> Anyway, here's the track:



Exquisite. Expertly crafted.

Would you mind giving a little detail about what other libraries and what effects you’ve used? Thought I heard some mod chorus in there.


----------



## gtrwll

Zedcars said:


> Exquisite. Expertly crafted.
> 
> Would you mind giving a little detail about what other libraries and what effects you’ve used? Thought I heard some mod chorus in there.



Wow, thanks! 

Actually there's not much going on. The piano (The Grandeur) and the celli leader have NI Replika on them with the diffuse-setting slapped on them, and I added a simple sub bass to give bit more weight to it, as the contrabass is playing higher. I think that's it!


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Hello all. Just a note to say that version 1.0.5 of the BBC SO plugin was released on Friday and includes further RAM improvements. 

We have also released a new version of the Spitfire Audio App which includes an "optimise" button on each library that runs in our own engine. This button will run through the sample files and reorder the data inside them to allow for faster loading time, try it out!


----------



## redlester

SpitfireSupport said:


> Hello all. Just a note to say that version 1.0.5 of the BBC SO plugin was released on Friday and includes further RAM improvements.
> 
> We have also released a new version of the Spitfire Audio App which includes an "optimise" button on each library that runs in our own engine. This button will run through the sample files and reorder the data inside them to allow for faster loading time, try it out!



Will definitely try this later today, not that I'm having any problems as such.

One thing I've noticed at a slight tangent; the item on The Page with the link to Paul's Logic file for the "Best ways to voice strings" video, the WeTransfer link is actually to the woodwinds file instead of the strings...


----------



## Magnord

Another mockup made with BBCSO (not mine, just found it on YouTube):


----------



## CT

Interested in whether or not this optimize function will get annoyed with those of us who have deleted or moved certain mic samples.


----------



## ridgero

Magnord said:


> Another mockup made with BBCSO (not mine, just found it on YouTube):




Wow


----------



## TGV

Sustained strings sound synthy in the Finlandia mockup (there seem to be no dynamics in held note, neither has legato been used, it seems), and the trumpet staccatissimo "calls" lack body, but the rest sounds pretty good.


----------



## Eptesicus

TGV said:


> Sustained strings sound synthy in the Finlandia mockup (there seem to be no dynamics in held note, neither has legato been used, it seems), and the trumpet staccatissimo "calls" lack body, but the rest sounds pretty good.




Yeh not keen on the mock up. I dont think much attention has been given to the programing. The strings especially sound naff. Woodwinds sound ok.

The biggest issue is that loads of the unconnected note have a crescendo which sounds awful and is a dead giveaway that it is a sampled mock up. For example 1.56 - 2.00. Just sounds so unnatural.


----------



## madfloyd

SpitfireSupport said:


> Hello all. Just a note to say that version 1.0.5 of the BBC SO plugin was released on Friday and includes further RAM improvements.
> 
> We have also released a new version of the Spitfire Audio App which includes an "optimise" button on each library that runs in our own engine. This button will run through the sample files and reorder the data inside them to allow for faster loading time, try it out!



Thank you for posting this. I'm a Windows user who is hoping to buy the library once the growing pains of the plugin have been sorted out and this is the thread that I'm reading to try and get a feel for that... so thanks.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

miket said:


> Interested in whether or not this optimize function will get annoyed with those of us who have deleted or moved certain mic samples.



It won't be annoyed at all. It looks at the file that tells the plugin where to find samples and optimises all of those, so if the plugin can see the samples, so can the optimise function.


----------



## PerryD

Trying the new "optimise files" feature for BBCSO in the Spitfire app. Looks like it may take some time. There are 94,005 files and it's doing about 30 files per minute. Spitfire SSD via usb3. 1.0.5 didn't seem to make a huge difference but maybe the optomise process will. Win 10 pro, i7-8700k 64gb ram Studio One 4.5.4


----------



## CT

SpitfireSupport said:


> It won't be annoyed at all. It looks at the file that tells the plugin where to find samples and optimises all of those, so if the plugin can see the samples, so can the optimise function.



Great. Thanks!


----------



## PerryD

PerryD said:


> Trying the new "optimise files" feature for BBCSO in the Spitfire app. Looks like it may take some time. There are 94,005 files and it's doing about 30 files per minute. Spitfire SSD via usb3. 1.0.5 didn't seem to make a huge difference but maybe the optomise process will. Win 10 pro, i7-8700k 64gb ram Studio One 4.5.4


 Hmmm. It's too early after waking up to do proper math but at this rate, I think it would take 50 hours!! I have fast internet and could probably download the entire library in less time. :/


----------



## Tilt & Flow

Forget the math. Took about 10 minutes to optimize.


----------



## PerryD

Tilt & Flow said:


> Forget the math. Took about 10 minutes to optimize.


 It's been 30 minutes and I'm at 1,700 out of 94,000. Nothing is open except the Spitfire app.


----------



## PeterJCroissant

Tilt & Flow said:


> Forget the math. Took about 10 minutes to optimize.




wow you were lucky then... 100 per minute thus far


----------



## Virtuoso

It took an hour to do the first 20% of BBCSO on my system, but then kicked up a gear and finished the last 80% in a couple of minutes. The same happened with EWC which took 10 minutes total.


----------



## madfloyd

PerryD said:


> Trying the new "optimise files" feature for BBCSO in the Spitfire app. Looks like it may take some time. There are 94,005 files and it's doing about 30 files per minute. Spitfire SSD via usb3. 1.0.5 didn't seem to make a huge difference but maybe the optomise process will. Win 10 pro, i7-8700k 64gb ram Studio One 4.5.4



If you could provide feedback when it's done, I'd really appreciate it. You and I have very similar setups. Thanks.


----------



## PerryD

SpitfireSupport said:


> Hello all. Just a note to say that version 1.0.5 of the BBC SO plugin was released on Friday and includes further RAM improvements.
> 
> We have also released a new version of the Spitfire Audio App which includes an "optimise" button on each library that runs in our own engine. This button will run through the sample files and reorder the data inside them to allow for faster loading time, try it out!


 How long should it take? The process has been running for more than 30 minutes and it shows 2,000 of 94,005 files completed. I only have the Spitfire app open. The library is on the Spitfire SSD, connected via usb 3.


----------



## Tilt & Flow

PeterJCroissant said:


> wow you were lucky then... 100 per minute thus far


I guess I was. I optimized all my SF plugin libraries and it all went very fast.


----------



## Øivind

took a while at first here as well for the optimization, but went really fast after a while.


----------



## ridgero

SpitfireSupport said:


> It won't be annoyed at all. It looks at the file that tells the plugin where to find samples and optimises all of those, so if the plugin can see the samples, so can the optimise function.



THIS! Its loading quicker now



Mac mini 2018, i7, 64 GB RAM, BBSCO SSD via USB C


----------



## robgb

Eptesicus said:


> Yeh not keen on the mock up. I dont think much attention has been given to the programing. The strings especially sound naff. Woodwinds sound ok.
> 
> The biggest issue is that loads of the unconnected note have a crescendo which sounds awful and is a dead giveaway that it is a sampled mock up. For example 1.56 - 2.00. Just sounds so unnatural.


This is why I think posting your own music here is a bad idea. There's always someone who will tear it down. Thing is, 99% of the world doesn't give a damn if it's a "dead giveaway" that it's a sample mock up. They don't even know the names of half the instruments. And guess what? The other 1% already KNOW it's a sampled mockup and that it isn't trying to be anything other than that.


----------



## Eptesicus

robgb said:


> There's always someone who will tear it down.



Are we just supposed to say everything is brilliant?

What is the point in mocking something up with VST's if you arent trying to make it sound realistic?

I can understand that ultra realism may not be the be all and end all if composing your own works.

However, what is the point in mocking up a piece such as this, and posting it for others to listen to, if you arent going for realism? 

That piece will have been recorded by real musicians.If mocking it up isnt a task in persuing realism with VST's and making it sound as close to the real thing as possible, then why even do it.


----------



## synkrotron

Eptesicus said:


> Are we just supposed to say everything is brilliant?



Yeah, cos, like, everything we do is just that, right?


----------



## robgb

Eptesicus said:


> Are we just supposed to say everything is brilliant?


No. You could simply not say anything at all.


----------



## Eptesicus

robgb said:


> No. You could simply not say anything at all.



See my elaboration in my reply.

Furthermore, that is stupid. Do you not want anything critical posted, ever?


----------



## cqd

I'd be of the mind that you should say nothing unless your criticism is constructive..


----------



## robgb

Eptesicus said:


> See my elaboration in my reply.
> 
> Furthermore, that is stupid. Do you not want anything critical posted, ever?


If the person who posted asks for an opinion, by all means, go for it. But make it a constructive opinion. Nothing you said was constructive in any way. It was basically, those strings sound like shit, etc. Instead you might have had the courtesy to tell him how he could improve the sound of the strings or whatever.


----------



## Eptesicus

cqd said:


> I'd be of the mind that you should say nothing unless your criticism is constructive..



What was not constructive about it?


----------



## Eptesicus

robgb said:


> If the person who posted asks for an opinion, by all means, go for it. But make it a constructive opinion. Nothing you said was constructive in any way. It was basically, those strings sound like shit, etc. Instead you might have had the courtesy to tell him how he could improve the sound of the strings or whatever.



Rubbish. Why post something on a forum if you arent expecting people to react to it?

I would assume that someone posting a mock up of a classical piece will be doing so to see whether people think it sounds realistic or not.

I also did point out where i thought the failing was as well (implying how it could be improved).


----------



## cqd

Yeah, actually in this instance I'd say criticism of the sound of the library is fair enough..

Considering the thread it's in etc..


----------



## Uiroo

Of course it was constructive.


----------



## AEF

Just a quick comparison of OT Berlin Strings vs BBCSO. Curious to hear peoples preference. For sake of bias I didn't label them:


----------



## gussunkri

AEF said:


> Just a quick comparison of OT Berlin Strings vs BBCSO. Curious to hear peoples preference. For sake of bias I didn't label them:


Interesting! I own BBCSO, but not Berlin Strings, so really my guess is only partially informed by prior experience. My experience of the BBCSO is that it is quite warm sounding (not terribly bright). In this case, I think B sounds slightly more warm (slightly muffled). I would then guess that B is BBCSO and A is Berlin Strings. I think they both sound great, but in this case I have a slight preference for A (which if I am right is Berlin Strings which I do not own), but I would be happy with either. Possibly, my slight preference for A is due to it being (or seeming to be) slightly louder than B.


----------



## Noeticus

I think B is the Berlin strings.


----------



## dzilizzi

I'm thinking the criticism was useless as someone just posted a video they found on Youtube. So the poster was not the person who needs the constructive criticism. 

it is nice to know if it is a quick, throw it out there so see how it sounds, versus this is what it sounds like when you properly use the orchestra aka "I don't know how to properly use this orchestra"


----------



## dzilizzi

Noeticus said:


> I think B is the Berlin strings.


I would agree. And I don't own either.


----------



## TGV

AEF said:


> Just a quick comparison of OT Berlin Strings vs BBCSO. Curious to hear peoples preference. For sake of bias I didn't label them:


The balance between both examples is quite different. In B, the middle voice dominates, certainly in the first half, which (to me) sounds off; it's as if the light crescendo doesn't work the same in both libs. At the end, they're more comparable. A's reverb/room tail is a bit longer, and B has more "mid"; for me there's no winner.


----------



## Noeticus

Also, harsh criticism can sometimes be good. 

For instance I told Beethoven more than once that his 5th symphony was far too repetitive.


----------



## dzilizzi

Noeticus said:


> Also, harsh criticism can sometimes be good.
> 
> For instance I told Beethoven more than once that his 5th symphony was far too repetitive.


I found an 8 minute version of Bolero. Talk about repetitive. Yet, I liked it. Though I felt sorry for the drummer.


----------



## erikradbo

AEF said:


> Just a quick comparison of OT Berlin Strings vs BBCSO. Curious to hear peoples preference. For sake of bias I didn't label them:



B is certainly more consistent, tighter in the shorts, and with eyes closed resembles a real recording much better than A. Yo can hear the bow bouncing off the strings in some of the shorts in B in a great way, and also there is great details in the bass coming in from the right. A doesn't sound bad by no means though. I'm assuming B is Berlin strings...if it's BBCSO this would make me buy it.


----------



## AEF

TGV said:


> The balance between both examples is quite different. In B, the middle voice dominates, certainly in the first half, which (to me) sounds off; it's as if the light crescendo doesn't work the same in both libs. At the end, they're more comparable. A's reverb/room tail is a bit longer, and B has more "mid"; for me there's no winner.



This is my exact opinion. There is no winner. All of these libraries are brilliant, and none of them sound actually real. I think the need to find the be all end all library is totally counterproductive. I say that bc I have chased "the best" over and over, and my wallet hates me for it LOL.


----------



## Bluemount Score

I optimised BBCSO and have to say that loading times seem much faster now. They are at Kontakt-level, imo.
One problem succesfully solved.


----------



## Uiroo

I'd go with B, although the balance seems to work better with A. 
A sounds much less real to me. 

I'd guess B is Berlin Strings.


----------



## cqd

I would have said b was BBCSO, as it seems a lot muddier in the low mids..


----------



## erikradbo

AEF said:


> This is my exact opinion. There is no winner. All of these libraries are brilliant, and none of them sound actually real. I think the need to find the be all end all library is totally counterproductive. I say that bc I have chased "the best" over and over, and my wallet hates me for it LOL.



Certainly there isn't any objective answer regarding a winner, but I would choose B over A for both sound and consistency every day of the week.

I even liked the sound so much that assuming it was Berlin I headed over to orchestraltools.com to only find a front page atm. New player coming?


----------



## MartinH.

AEF said:


> Just a quick comparison of OT Berlin Strings vs BBCSO. Curious to hear peoples preference. For sake of bias I didn't label them:



Thanks for not labeling them! I don't like A and I think B is much better. I don't own either library, but my bet is A is Berlin and B is BBSCO. I draw my conclusion based on my complaints with the MA1 string shorts. Curious to see if I'm right or not.

P.s.: this is exactly the kind of comparison I find interesting because while it might not be very charitable to either library, it's much closer to how I could/would actually use them myself.


----------



## Zero&One

At 0:18 on B is that a twangy sample? I'm on a laptop so its difficult to tell.
If it is then defo B = Berlin


----------



## Bluemount Score

It surprisingly hard to tell, considering Berlin Strings has twice the amount of players if I remember correctly. I don't own Berlin.
My first guess however was that BBCSO is A.


----------



## gtrwll

Listening on a phone I'd say B is BBCSO.


----------



## Zedcars

A= BBCSO
B = Berlin

If I'm wrong, I'll eat my hat.


----------



## prodigalson

Zedcars said:


> A= BBCSO
> B = Berlin
> 
> If I'm wrong, I'll eat my hat.



+1


----------



## Zedcars

And also, I think you thought we would naturally think you would put the non-BBCSO first in slot A, therefore you deliberately counteracted that by putting it where we would least expect it, namely in B. Unless, of course, you already anticipated that, and did a triple bluff by not putting it where we would expect you to have not put it? 

Edit: Or is that a double bluff? Um...


----------



## Noeticus

It is best to eat lots of "Berlin String" VSTs, so as to have immunity in case of the triple bluff.

Also, I told my doctor I had a VST, and he said there was an ointment, I mean, an appointment for that.


----------



## muk

B sounds significantly better to me, even though A has the better mix. In A the first violins lead as they should in this context, while in B the middle voices are overpowering the first violins. Still B sounds better to me as the attacks are much more varied. To my ears the attacks sound repetitive and unnatural in A.

If I had to guess I would say that the example has been created with library A=BBCSO, and then copied over to library B=Berlin Strings with only small adjustments to the midi data.


----------



## AEF

BBCSO is A
Berlin is B

FYI it was mocked up with BBCSO......


----------



## CT

Zedcars said:


> And also, I think you thought we would naturally think you would put the non-BBCSO first in slot A, therefore you deliberately counteracted that by putting it where we would least expect it, namely in B. Unless, of course, you already anticipated that, and did a triple bluff by not putting it where we would expect you to have not put it?
> 
> Edit: Or is that a double bluff? Um...



VI-Control should have game theory listed as a prerequisite.


----------



## Zedcars

AEF said:


> BBCSO is A
> Berlin is B
> 
> FYI it was mocked up with BBCSO......


I’m just relieved I’m not having sautéed sombrero tonight.


----------



## PerryD

I was hoping to do some music today. The "optomise files" app is still running...7 hours so far and I'm up to 17,000 out of 94,005. I don't suppose I could stop and resume later to run while I get some sleep?? Maybe someone will send me a nice European chocolate bar to calm my nerves.


----------



## Øivind

Zedcars said:


> And also, I think you thought we would naturally think you would put the non-BBCSO first in slot A, therefore you deliberately counteracted that by putting it where we would least expect it, namely in B. Unless, of course, you already anticipated that, and did a triple bluff by not putting it where we would expect you to have not put it?
> 
> Edit: Or is that a double bluff? Um...



Inconseavable!!


----------



## MartinH.

AEF said:


> BBCSO is A
> Berlin is B
> 
> FYI it was mocked up with BBCSO......



Thanks! I stand corrected.


----------



## Zedcars

PerryD said:


> I was hoping to do some music today. The "optomise files" app is still running...7 hours so far and I'm up to 17,000 out of 94,005. I don't suppose I could stop and resume later to run while I get some sleep?? Maybe someone will send me a nice European chocolate bar to calm my nerves.


Can’t you leave it running overnight? It should start to accelerate soon.


----------



## PerryD

PerryD said:


> I was hoping to do some music today. The "optomise files" app is still running...7 hours so far and I'm up to 17,000 out of 94,005. I don't suppose I could stop and resume later to run while I get some sleep?? Maybe someone will send me a nice European chocolate bar to calm my nerves.


 Cool! It was up around 18,000 and I left the studio for 5 minutes and it's apparently done! Fingers crossed for testing. No chocolate required.


----------



## Pianolando

Bluemount Score said:


> It surprisingly hard to tell, considering Berlin Strings has twice the amount of players if I remember correctly. I don't own Berlin.
> My first guess however was that BBCSO is A.



Berlin strings is 8,6,5,5,4
BBCSO Strings is 16,14,12,10,8 (plus leaders)


----------



## dzilizzi

I'm curious as to the mics used. The reason I picked B as Berlin was not because it sounded better - they both were good and bad to my ears - but because it sounded louder, like the close mics were used. A sounded like a mix mics version.


----------



## AEF

dzilizzi said:


> I'm curious as to the mics used. The reason I picked B as Berlin was not because it sounded better - they both were good and bad to my ears - but because it sounded louder, like the close mics were used. A sounded like a mix mics version.



BBCSO was close, tree, and outriggers
OTBS was close tree ambient. tree most, then ambient/outriggers, then close.

The outriggers give a nice width.

They were both peak normalized and then dropped by 10db.


----------



## erikradbo

Zedcars said:


> I’m just relieved I’m not having sautéed sombrero tonight.



I'm just disappointed I can't get that string sound in an all in one package for 799...


----------



## Celestial Aeon

another live composing stream on which I'm working on migrating Shenmue theme to BBC SO. However on this session I noticed a weird thing that I couldn't immediately resolve. I opened the official Cubase template and noticed that for some reason the loaded instances where slightly off in tuning in comparison to the reference wav file which should be in standard. No idea where the problem is yet, didn't want to spend time on figuring it out as I wanted to get things done, but just something I hadn't run onto before. If anyone has any good guesses regarding what might cause something like this any pointers are appreciated.

Actually, because I used erhu from Silk and it was in same tuning as the BBC SO:s it's probably somehow related to the Cubase project itself which made the whole project output sound slightly off. Have to check the project settings, maybe some sample rate difference or?

EDIT: gotcha, the template set the project to 48,000 so I just had to switch it to 44,100 all is good.


----------



## PeterJCroissant

Guys - does your BBCSO Anvil patch play? Mine is silent...


----------



## Zedcars

PeterJCroissant said:


> Guys - does your BBCSO Anvil patch play? Mine is silent...


Mine does. Hope you sort it out.


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

Running a Windows 10 system here with Cubase.
After running the optimise function (it took a while) I have noticed a _massive_ improvement in loading times. Pre-saved projects do load a lot smoother.


----------



## ridgero

cqd said:


> Yeah, actually in this instance I'd say criticism of the sound of the library is fair enough..
> 
> Considering the thread it's in etc..



Exactly my experience, it loads pretty quick and I can instantly play the instruments now.



ridgero said:


> THIS! Its loading quicker now
> 
> 
> 
> Mac mini 2018, i7, 64 GB RAM, BBSCO SSD via USB C


----------



## Scamper

AEF said:


> Just a quick comparison of OT Berlin Strings vs BBCSO. Curious to hear peoples preference. For sake of bias I didn't label them:



Just out of curiosity, can you provide a version with CSS or can you share the midi, so I can add it?


----------



## Saigen

My latest project I'm working on with BBCSO.
Thought I'd share my very recent love for this library <3

Still lots more details to add though :(


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

Just finished working on this!



If anyone is interested I'm sharing files and stuff on this thread here:





__





Flying Sleigh - BBCSO


Hello! I've heard quite a lot of slow, intimate music made with this library so I wanted to try something different and I challenged myself with a piece I knew it would be hard to mockup. Here you go! Files and score here...




vi-control.net


----------



## CT

I think that works quite nicely!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Just finished working on this!
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone is interested I'm sharing files and stuff on this thread here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flying Sleigh - BBCSO
> 
> 
> Hello! I've heard quite a lot of slow, intimate music made with this library so I wanted to try something different and I challenged myself with a piece I knew it would be hard to mockup. Here you go! Files and score here...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



Anybody else hear "Test Flight" from How to train your dragon in here?
I really like your track though!


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

Bluemount Score said:


> Anybody else hear "Test Flight" from How to train your dragon in here?
> I really like your track though!



I actually hear "The Whomping Willow and the Snowball Fight" ~ 1:20 onwards
Not sure hearing John Williams influences is a bad thing 
That's great work Mattia!


----------



## Zero&One

James H said:


> Here are my load times:
> 
> Loaded Logic
> 31 instances BBC
> 
> 2:26 default setup



Happy to report after optimise function this same test project loads at 1:46
40 sec saving is very welcome


----------



## Michel Simons

dzilizzi said:


> I found an 8 minute version of Bolero. Talk about repetitive. Yet, I liked it. Though I felt sorry for the drummer.



There is never a reason to feel sorry for the drummer.


----------



## mikeh-375

@Michel Simons we as musicians _should_ feel sorry for them........just joking percussion fellas, I can't resist muso jokes.


----------



## PeterJCroissant

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Just finished working on this!
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone is interested I'm sharing files and stuff on this thread here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flying Sleigh - BBCSO
> 
> 
> Hello! I've heard quite a lot of slow, intimate music made with this library so I wanted to try something different and I challenged myself with a piece I knew it would be hard to mockup. Here you go! Files and score here...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



wow you work quick! can I ask if you use an articulation manager or do you use standard keyswitches?


----------



## Zedcars

I've been unable to use the default (or any) CC's to control the mics. They are just not responding. Has anyone had success with this?

Cubase 10, Mac.


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

PeterJCroissant said:


> wow you work quick! can I ask if you use an articulation manager or do you use standard keyswitches?


I've used key switches for this project but I'm having quite a hard time tbh. I'll likely go back to one track per articulation soon. Excuse my ignorance but what's an articulation manager?


----------



## Zedcars

Zedcars said:


> I've been unable to use the default (or any) CC's to control the mics. They are just not responding. Has anyone had success with this?
> 
> Cubase 10, Mac.



OK, well this is really strange behaviour. If I adjust the CC MIDI value in Cubase in realtime - by selecting the value and moving the mouse up and down, then the mic WILL move. However, If I play the project through this CC event, then it will not respond.

I opened up a blank project and it still does this. I'm wondering if there is something in Cubase settings making this happen, or if it's a problem with the BBCSO plugin.

Please could someone try this out for me?

I'm using CC 24 to try to control the Close mic, but any of the other mic CCs would do.

Also, I CAN send CC data to control the Vibrato, Reverb, Release, Expression, Dynamics and the plugin responds as expected in live playback.

Thanks.


----------



## brenneisen

Zedcars said:


> If I adjust the CC MIDI value in Cubase in realtime - by selecting the value and moving the mouse up and down, then the mic WILL move. However, If I play the project through this CC event, then it will not respond.



I have the same issue with LABS, adding a zero value before should work


----------



## PeterJCroissant

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I've used key switches for this project but I'm having quite a hard time tbh. I'll likely go back to one track per articulation soon. Excuse my ignorance but what's an articulation manager?



well up to very recently there was something called ArtzID, with was a 3rd party plugin /scripting engine which enabled or at least made it much easier using multiple articulations on the same track. you could assign any note to a particular articulation. but that's no longer supported. I might have a play with the inbuilt articulation options with in Logic Pro..

anyway, good luck!


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

PeterJCroissant said:


> well up to very recently there was something called ArtzID, with was a 3rd party plugin /scripting engine which enabled or at least made it much easier using multiple articulations on the same track. you could assign any note to a particular articulation. but that's no longer supported. I might have a play with the inbuilt articulation options with in Logic Pro..
> 
> anyway, good luck!


Thanks, I'll look into that


----------



## Zedcars

brenneisen said:


> I have the same issue with LABS, adding a zero value before should work


Thank you. I've just discovered if I add TWO CC events with the same (or different) value (e.g. CC24 127, then another CC24 127) then it suddenly springs to life and responds. Adding a zero beforehand would have the same effect. I guess it needs the first CC to wake it up, and the second to actually change it correctly. Weird.


----------



## Vik

PeterJCroissant said:


> up to very recently there was something called ArtzID


Isn't it available anymore? What happened?


----------



## Zedcars

Zedcars said:


> Thank you. I've just discovered if I add TWO CC events with the same (or different) value (e.g. CC24 127, then another CC24 127) then it suddenly springs to life and responds. Adding a zero beforehand would have the same effect. I guess it needs the first CC to wake it up, and the second to actually change it correctly. Weird.


*It only works if I send a different value first. I.E. CC24 126, then CC24 127.*


----------



## AEF

Vik said:


> Isn't it available anymore? What happened?



logics own articulation sets replaced it


----------



## PeterJCroissant

Vik said:


> Isn't it available anymore? What happened?



not sure what happened, but if you go to his website it says he is no longer trading..something to that affect...


----------



## PeterJCroissant

AEF said:


> logics own articulation sets replaced it



ahhh that is probably why! of course...thank you


----------



## Levon

Just finished watching Paul Thomson’s Star Wars theme video! I won’t be able to resist purchasing BBCSO in the BF/Xmas sales now!


----------



## 5Lives

Levon said:


> Just finished watching Paul Thomson’s Star Wars theme video! I won’t be able to resist purchasing BBCSO in the BF/Xmas sales now!



Indeed!


----------



## PeterJCroissant

Levon said:


> Just finished watching Paul Thomson’s Star Wars theme video! I won’t be able to resist purchasing BBCSO in the BF/Xmas sales now!



Paul is such an understated genius I wish he was my dad... only I’m older 🤔 ok this is getting weird now..


----------



## redlester

Is that 24 track tape machine behind Paul just for show?


----------



## Patrick.K

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Just finished working on this!
> 
> 
> If anyone is interested I'm sharing files and stuff on this thread here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flying Sleigh - BBCSO
> 
> 
> Hello! I've heard quite a lot of slow, intimate music made with this library so I wanted to try something different and I challenged myself with a piece I knew it would be hard to mockup. Here you go! Files and score here...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



:emoji_trophy:Once again Mattia, I am more than pleasantly surprised by your talent !.
Beautiful orchestration, it's dynamic, aerial, cinematic, it gives the smile.
A lot of fun to listen to!


----------



## Patrick.K

I'm still undecided ... between Amadeus or BBCSO ?


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

I'm still having problems with the string legatos. Do you like it? 

I discovered that the performance (extended) legato programming might be the "problem". If you compare e.g. the flute normal legato to the extended version. It sounds thicker and wetter? Of course, the short articulations are stacked, but it makes really a difference. I wished there was a normal legato for the strings... even though I really like the performance legatos.

What do you think? For the woodwind and brass instruments it's not so important, because I like the sound as is. But for the strings... I'm not sure.


----------



## roby71

Ciao, my first steps with BBCSO...on Christian Henson project Satie "Gnossienne No.1". On SSD everything work well.
.


----------



## ridgero

Another outstandingly sounding Composition by @Mattia Chiappa


----------



## cola2410

Long story short - I'm about to pull a trigger on BBCSO being very late to the introductory price but still have some questions for those who already have the beauty. To be honest, I really appreciate sharing the templates for DAWs and have no clue why other developers still don't do that because it's the most valuable thing when buying the library and the template adds a lot more value.
Judging from the demos - I hear that good old orchestra sound, actually reminds me how old Magnificient Seven score sounds and it's great. But (and it's a big one for me) are there any tricks to make it brighter and sound bigger and more cinematic? I guess it's not a fair question because BBCSO represents The_Sound of Maida Vale and I hope users don't blame me for that too much. EQ? Reverb? Dynamics? Abbey Road mastering plugin or any other fitting channel strip? Maybe even LTL Silver Bullet or something like that? I remember similar discussion about CSS sounding too dark and making EQ adjustments to reveal its highs.
Some may say there are better libraries for that cinematic sound but I really get that One Starting Point thing by SF because we do get full orchestra libraby with the ready_to_go template and I think people just underestimate the endeavor. What if we actually have the full unversal orchestra library for the very first time? And I would imagine then SF might add more colors similar to what Strezov did?
Appreciate the answers in advance, hope other people interested in the same.


----------



## dzilizzi

Is it still at intro price? You may want to wait for BF or Xmas wishlist where it will be back at intro price. 
I think Paul said he would make a video that talks about making it more epic using EQ. Or something like that. maybe it is in his Star Wars video?


----------



## AEF

What ever happened to Christian building a one articulation per track template? Weirdly enough, I think that is the best way to use the library with Logic on a laptop. Massive RAM savings by loading only the arts that you need.

Guess its not happening...


----------



## redlester

AEF said:


> What ever happened to Christian building a one articulation per track template? Weirdly enough, I think that is the best way to use the library with Logic on a laptop. Massive RAM savings by loading only the arts that you need.
> 
> Guess its not happening...



I think seeing as it took months for them to build the hybrid template there could be a wait for it. But I wouldn’t want it now I’ve used the hybrid one, in tandem with dynamic plugin loading it works like a dream and I’m already adapting it for use with other libraries.


----------



## star.keys

What is the latest on Windows 10 / Cubase scene?


----------



## Daniel Stenning

ridgero said:


> Thanks for sharing your wonderful project @Mattia Chiappa!!!
> 
> First: I'm a longtime Cubase (Win10) user and new to Logic.
> 
> My setup: Mac mini 2018, 64 GB Ram, 1 TB SSD, BBCSO (SO SSD), Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (1st gen)
> 
> I've tested the project from Mattia Chiappa. Pops & clicks start to come up in the middle of the track. Does anybody know why this happen?
> 
> I don't get any System overload messages, the CPU meter shows there is some headroom left. The fans are still quiet. The project only uses around 10 GB RAM.
> 
> I tried to change the buffer size, but the same amount of pop&clicks are still there.
> 
> Thanks for your help!



I have had a 3.2 GHz i7 2018 mini with 64GB RAM and 2TB SSD in it for quite a few months now. Up to now I've been running VEP on the one box too - but my templates just has had KOMPLETE instruments plus the EPIC 2 orchestra samples that come with VEP.

This was working fine and no issue with fan coming on with evewerything loaded and Cubase 10 connected to VEP on my one mini.


***However*** ....

.... When it came to my buying the new BBC SO library from Spitfire and loading up that library completely in VEP - this is when the fan came on - and although not a horrid noise I just can't stand any fan noise at all. Its not clear to me at this stage whether the high CPU load ( typically around 70% on all cores- judging from activity monitor - is due to the plugins used in BBC SO being much less efficient than Kontakt or Vienna Syncron plugins - or something else - for example merely the streaming load.. but...

To be fair - I was using 128 buffer size on the whole - for playability on the pianos in my VEP template. But even so this worked ok until BBC SO...

So I had to rethink my setup so now the Mac mini sits in the hallway and connected via gigabit ( soon to be 10gbe ) ethernet to my 2018 MBP as client. This gets over the fan noise issue but does seem a waste of a lovely Mac mini - given its now just an expensive VEP server.

I bought a new Caldigit thunderbolt dock so everything connects to VEP and screens etc via dock and not the 4 tb3 sockets - so the MBP remains a portable unit.

But really I wish I could just have used the one Mac mini for a relatively minimal VEP setup... I'd planned to only be using one orchestra library - the BBC SO for some time in order to develop orchestration skills - and thought a 1 machine setup would work but fan noise with the BBC SO on Mac mini has pushed me to a client server arrangement with all the woes and costs and complexities that involves.

I'd also like to have the lowest buffer sizes - 128 or lower so am looking into 10gbe and in moment of madness even started googling and looking into the state of Infiniband and 100gbe systems.

( NVIDIA just recently purchased Mellanox - which might bring down costs ...for non server-couples users... dunno... )


----------



## Uiroo

cola2410 said:


> Long story short - I'm about to pull a trigger on BBCSO being very late to the introductory price but still have some questions for those who already have the beauty. To be honest, I really appreciate sharing the templates for DAWs and have no clue why other developers still don't do that


I think it's because most professionals (my guess) already have their own template.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Daniel Stenning said:


> I have had a 3.2 GHz i7 2018 mini with 64GB RAM and 2TB SSD in it for quite a few months now. Up to now I've been running VEP on the one box too - but my templates just has had KOMPLETE instruments plus the EPIC 2 orchestra samples that come with VEP.
> 
> This was working fine and no issue with fan coming on with evewerything loaded and Cubase 10 connected to VEP on my one mini.
> 
> 
> ***However*** ....
> 
> .... When it came to my buying the new BBC SO library from Spitfire and loading up that library completely in VEP - this is when the fan came on - and although not a horrid noise I just can't stand any fan noise at all. Its not clear to me at this stage whether the high CPU load ( typically around 70% on all cores- judging from activity monitor - is due to the plugins used in BBC SO being much less efficient than Kontakt or Vienna Syncron plugins - or something else - for example merely the streaming load.. but...
> 
> To be fair - I was using 128 buffer size on the whole - for playability on the pianos in my VEP template. But even so this worked ok until BBC SO...
> 
> So I had to rethink my setup so now the Mac mini sits in the hallway and connected via gigabit ( soon to be 10gbe ) ethernet to my 2018 MBP as client. This gets over the fan noise issue but does seem a waste of a lovely Mac mini - given its now just an expensive VEP server.
> 
> I bought a new Caldigit thunderbolt dock so everything connects to VEP and screens etc via dock and not the 4 tb3 sockets - so the MBP remains a portable unit.
> 
> But really I wish I could just have used the one Mac mini for a relatively minimal VEP setup... I'd planned to only be using one orchestra library - the BBC SO for some time in order to develop orchestration skills - and thought a 1 machine setup would work but fan noise with the BBC SO on Mac mini has pushed me to a client server arrangement with all the woes and costs and complexities that involves.
> 
> I'd also like to have the lowest buffer sizes - 128 or lower so am looking into 10gbe and in moment of madness even started googling and looking into the state of Infiniband and 100gbe systems.
> 
> ( NVIDIA just recently purchased Mellanox - which might bring down costs ...for non server-couples users... dunno... )



In your BBC template, do have all of the other articulations (within a given instance) trashed? I can load up every instrument just fine on my MB Pro using this method.


----------



## Chance Boudreaux

I only have one USB3.0 Type C port left on my machine. If I order this library on SSD does it come with a USB Type C cable?


----------



## mralmostpopular

Chance Boudreaux said:


> I only have one USB3.0 Type C port left on my machine. If I order this library on SSD does it come with a USB Type C cable?



It comes with a USB-C to USB-A, so you’ll need to pick up a USB-C cable.


----------



## Øivind

Chance Boudreaux said:


> I only have one USB3.0 Type C port left on my machine. If I order this library on SSD does it come with a USB Type C cable?



It comes with a USB-C to A cable.
The SSD enclosure is USB-C.
Using the cable that comes with, i get ~450MB/s transfer speeds when conecting it to my USB 3.0 type A connector on the frontpanel of my computer. So if you have any of those ports left over, it should work just fine.


----------



## Chance Boudreaux

mralmostpopular said:


> It comes with a USB-C to USB-A, so you’ll need to pick up a USB-C cable.





oivind_rosvold said:


> It comes with a USB-C to A cable.
> The SSD enclosure is USB-C.
> Using the cable that comes with, i get ~450MB/s transfer speeds when conecting it to my USB 3.0 type A connector on the frontpanel of my computer. So if you have any of those ports left over, it should work just fine.



Ok, thanks for the info. No unused type A ports left on my machine so I'll make sure I get a type C cable.


----------



## Øivind

Chance Boudreaux said:


> Ok, thanks for the info. No unused type A ports left on my machine so I'll make sure I get a type C cable.



You probably already know this, but make shure it's an actual data transfer cable with at least USB 3.0 or 3.1 capablities, i had the missfortune of having major issues with speed on several USB-C cables (40MB/s speeds) i tested because they only had USB 2.0 rating.


----------



## Chance Boudreaux

oivind_rosvold said:


> You probably already know this, but make shure it's an actual data transfer cable with at least USB 3.0 or 3.1 capablities, i had the missfortune of having major issues with speed on several USB-C cables (40MB/s speeds) i tested because they only had USB 2.0 rating.


Good point, I just noticed that difference while browsing for cables. I guess I should also make sure I get one that supports power delivery? And USB-C was supposed to be easy.


----------



## bricop

Here's a little snippet of the much loved Mahler's Adagietto from Symphony No.5


----------



## Øivind

I don't know about the power delivery part tbh. 

Yeah, USB-C is really confusing. XD


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

bricop said:


> Here's a little snippet of the much loved Mahler's Adagietto from Symphony No.5




Not bad, but definitely needs some programming tweaks for more realism. The most obvious point is at 3:00 where those brass notes come in.

But otherwise well done!


----------



## Zedcars

bricop said:


> Here's a little snippet of the much loved Mahler's Adagietto from Symphony No.5



Really nice. Thanks for posting.


----------



## wholeonions

Are people still having issues with this library on Windows? I'm on Win10 w\ 64GB & SSD and looking for a classical sounding library to hook into Cubase and Dorico. I like most of the sounds I've heard from this library, but I don't want to wait 30 min for my template to open.


----------



## Zero&One

wholeonions said:


> Are people still having issues with this library on Windows?



It was asked a few pages back and no replies. The App is at 1.0.5 now so maybe it has?
Would be nice if people who reported issues could also update the thread. I'm on Mac so I can't help you sorry.


----------



## Zedcars

Re: BBCSO Cubase Template

Has anyone noticed this in the Quick Control Assignments:






I don't really understand the Kontakt reference because it's a BBCSO track, but the other bit...not sure whether to laugh or cry at the ingenuity of this Easter Egg! 

Edit: Yeah, it's definitely in the Project Template code...I just had a look inside to make sure it was not anything I'd done:






Didn't @christianhenson famously rail against him in one of his early Spitfire videos, and that's what started him on the road to creating his own YouTube channel? Oops.


----------



## porrasm

Here's a quick piece made I made with BBCSO. It's still unfinished but I still wanted to share it. It also happens to be the first piece I've shared on this forum!



#oneorchestra


----------



## Noeticus

porrasm said:


> Here's a quick piece made I made with BBCSO. It's still unfinished but I still wanted to share it. It also happens to be the first piece I've shared on this forum!
> 
> 
> 
> #oneorchestra




This is truly fantastic! Great work!


----------



## porrasm

Noeticus said:


> This is truly fantastic! Great work!



Thanks :D

Now I just have to finish the piece, which is something I can rarely do as my attention span is too short. I move onto new projects too quickly :/


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

James H said:


> It was asked a few pages back and no replies. The App is at 1.0.5 now so maybe it has?
> Would be nice if people who reported issues could also update the thread. I'm on Mac so I can't help you sorry.



I'm curious as well.

BTW- that template is working great!


----------



## msorrels

I've put together a BBCSO template for Cakewalk by Bandlab (formally SONAR) a free DAW. My template is more of a starter than a clone of the one's on The Page but might save you some work, be sure to read the readme to understand how to use it. You can download it here:



There is a thread on the Cakewalk forum if you'd like to discuss it (I doubt CbB is a very interesting topic for VI). Enjoy.


----------



## playz123

Can someone please point me to the location of the "Optimise" button on the BBCSO interface. I have version 1.05, but am not seeing the button. Perhaps my tired old eyes are too strained looking at that interface to see it.  i'm on a Mac Pro running Mojave.


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

playz123 said:


> Can someone please point me to the location of the "Optimise" button on the BBCSO interface. I have version 1.05, but am not seeing the button. Perhaps my tired old eyes are too strained looking at that interface to see it.  i'm on a Mac Pro running Mojave.


It's not in the BBCSO interface. It runs like an update in the Spitfire app


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Re: BBCSO Cubase Template
> 
> Has anyone noticed this in the Quick Control Assignments:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really understand the Kontakt reference because it's a BBCSO track, but the other bit...not sure whether to laugh or cry at the ingenuity of this Easter Egg!
> 
> Edit: Yeah, it's definitely in the Project Template code...I just had a look inside to make sure it was not anything I'd done:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't @christianhenson famously rail against him in one of his early Spitfire videos, and that's what started him on the road to creating his own YouTube channel? Oops.



Very amusing, but probably just a quirk of character spaces allocated. Similarly it makes me chuckle whenever Christian shows a glimpse of his Activity Monitor and it says “iMac Pro - Christ” 🤣


----------



## AllanH

Running optimize on Windows 10 with Cubase definitely improved loadtimes but did not help with memory consumption.


----------



## wholeonions

AllanH said:


> Running optimize on Windows 10 with Cubase definitely improved loadtimes but did not help with memory consumption.



Thanks for the update Allan. How much memory is it eating up? Do I need 4 machines with 128G each to run a full template?


----------



## AllanH

wholeonions said:


> Thanks for the update Allan. How much memory is it eating up? Do I need 4 machines with 128G each to run a full template?



I don't think you need 4 monsters to run BBCSO, but your template may be much bigger than mine. Let me share tiny bit of data that is part of my working with spitfire.

On Cubase 10, Windows 1o Pro. Focusing on Violin1, the memory consumption measures I get are for single track with a V1 instance loaded:


BBCSO Player reportedTask Manager for CubaseV1, all articulations, Mix 1751MB2,982 MBV1 all but legato removed313 MB2,527 MBV1 all but legato removed. Project closed and reopened272 MB2,372 MB

To me, this mean that a full V1 takes about 800 MB of RAM, which I find completely reasonable. There is clearly a bug in that the BBCSO player is not releasing all memory as articulations are unloaded (lines 2 and 3). I've been assisting Spitfire figuring this out.

Conclusion:
1. just load "what you need" save project, exit, and reload, and you'll have the best-possible memory consumption.
2. BBCSO memory consumption is very reasonable at 800 MB per fully loaded instance.
3. BBCSO is somewhat slow at loading, but it's getting faster, especially after the "optimize" version.

I hope this helps!

EDIT: I erroneously provided data from 1.0.3. The memory data now reflects 1.0.5 after an optimize run. This primarily affect the first row.


----------



## wholeonions

That's great info, thanks! I agree 800M per instance isn't unreasonable with everything loaded. Glad to know they're still working on optimizations too. Maybe I'll only need 3 machines instead of 4.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

wholeonions said:


> That's great info, thanks! I agree 800M per instance isn't unreasonable with everything loaded. Glad to know they're still working on optimizations too. Maybe I'll only need 3 machines instead of 4.



Hell, I can now load every articulation with only 16GB. Just trash all of the other loaded instruments within each instance.


----------



## John R Wilson

Just had an hour to have a bit of a play around with the BBCSO, heres the result of it. It is pretty terribly played in and no where near something that is complete plus its only 25 seconds long :D but here it is:




Its all BBCSO out the box, very little EQ with some additional Reverb.


----------



## dzilizzi

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Just had an hour to have a bit of a play around with the BBCSO, heres the result of it. It is pretty terribly played in and no where near something that is complete plus its only 25 seconds long :D but here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its all BBCSO out the box, very little EQ with some additional Reverb.



That actually sounds like you could do epic with this.


----------



## AEF

Scamper said:


> Just out of curiosity, can you provide a version with CSS or can you share the midi, so I can add it?



ask and you shall receive.

(edit: the basses weren't in the original post, and I replaced valhalla with spaces II.


----------



## AEF

The following are CSS dry without any Hall verb,

and then CSS dry blended with BBCSO using BBCSO for it's room ambience and spill mics only.

and finally CSS + BBCSO and running through Spaces II.


----------



## erica-grace

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Just had an hour to have a bit of a play around with the BBCSO, heres the result of it. It is pretty terribly played in and no where near something that is complete plus its only 25 seconds long :D but here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its all BBCSO out the box, very little EQ with some additional Reverb.




YIKES


----------



## erica-grace

AEF said:


> ask and you shall receive.
> 
> (edit: the basses weren't in the original post, and I replaced valhalla with spaces II.



Did you post this earlier? Sounds pretty good.


----------



## 5Lives

When’s the Spitfire sale start again? Have decided to grab this in the end. Hope the hard drive is also on sale again.


----------



## AEF

erica-grace said:


> Did you post this earlier? Sounds pretty good.



No, this was asked for by another poster to compare.


----------



## Trombking

5Lives said:


> When’s the Spitfire sale start again? Have decided to grab this in the end. Hope the hard drive is also on sale again.


As far as I know BBCSO won't be part of the coming BF sales. So I fear we have to wait longer


----------



## Karma

Trombking said:


> As far as I know BBCSO won't be part of the coming BF sales. So I fear we have to wait longer


It will be!


----------



## porrasm

Trombking said:


> As far as I know BBCSO won't be part of the coming BF sales. So I fear we have to wait longer


It should be on sale at the introductory price, which was 750€/$ IIRC


----------



## prodigalson

porrasm said:


> It should be on sale at the introductory price, which was 750€/$ IIRC




Plus you’ll also get a little gift of Aperture Strings for.....waiting to buy BBCSO during Black Friday instead of during the actual preorder 🤷‍♂️😂👍🏻


----------



## Noeticus

Lieutenant Colonel Bill Kilgore from "Apocalypse Now" says...

*"Someday this thread's gonna end."*


----------



## dzilizzi

Noeticus said:


> Lieutenant Colonel Bill Kilgore from "Apocalypse Now" says...
> 
> *"Someday this thread's gonna end."*


And then 6 months later there will be a sale and this post will get resurrected to ask how the BBCSO is working out.


----------



## mralmostpopular

porrasm said:


> It should be on sale at the introductory price, which was 750€/$ IIRC



The website says the library will be on sale. It doesn't say whether the SSD will, and Spitfire couldn't confirm if it would be.


----------



## Michael Antrum

prodigalson said:


> Plus you’ll also get a little gift of Aperture Strings for.....waiting to buy BBCSO during Black Friday instead of during the actual preorder 🤷‍♂️😂👍🏻



I think it might be best to say that in this situation, I would consider patience to be a virtue.....

Let Spitfire make their announcement. 

In fact I wonder if they will announce when they are making their announcement.....


----------



## Fleer

Hanging by a thread here ...


----------



## mga

Anyone tried moving the library onto an external nvme ssd, like a Samsung X5. Any advantages? I wonder if part of the reason Spitfire has moved over to its own sampler is to futureproof it, and take advantage of nvme, which Kontakt might not be able to do as well? I know this is system dependant, but I'm thinking that thunderbolt and an external nvme ssd might be a good way to go. Anyone with any experience of this? Many thanks.


----------



## Karma

Hello! If anyone's interested I just uploaded a DAWCast of my demo here:


----------



## vdk-john

prodigalson said:


> Plus you’ll also get a little gift of Aperture Strings for.....waiting to buy BBCSO during Black Friday instead of during the actual preorder 🤷‍♂️😂👍🏻



Just saw that too! Would be nice if aperture strings becomes available for free also for BBC SO users during the BF sales 😝 or at least available by spending £100 -150 instead of £299, or something like that if you just got BBC SO / spent more than £500 just a month ago...


----------



## Technostica

mga said:


> Anyone tried moving the library onto an external nvme ssd, like a Samsung X5. Any advantages? I wonder if part of the reason Spitfire has moved over to its own sampler is to futureproof it, and take advantage of nvme, which Kontakt might not be able to do as well? I know this is system dependant, but I'm thinking that thunderbolt and an external nvme ssd might be a good way to go. Anyone with any experience of this? Many thanks.


Loading files quickly is a very basic part of software so I'd hope Kontakt manages that well enough!
It has had some updates even since V6 was released so it's not as if it's retired-ware.
Using an NVMe drive in an external enclosure shouldn't make any difference as developers have had access to fast internal SSDs for long enough to optimise.


----------



## Technostica

vdk-john said:


> Would be nice if aperture strings becomes available for free also for BBC SO users during the BF sales 😝 or at least available by spending £100 -150 instead of £299, or something like that if you just got BBC SO / spent more than £500 just a month ago...


What about all the other people that have spent £299 in the last month?


----------



## vdk-john

Technostica said:


> What about all the other people that have spent £299 in the last month?



They should have waited black Friday 😜
But with BBC SO being on offer (intro price) at release and then again, for the same price on BF, people would just have blown their "BF budget" on it at release...

P.S. anyway don't take this too seriously, I'm half kidding / don't really mind


----------



## AndyP

Early buyers are therefore the test group that goes away empty-handed.  I am glad to have bought twice an immature software.


----------



## paulwr

Karma said:


> Hello! If anyone's interested I just uploaded a DAWCast of my demo here:



You can almost 'smell ' the room. This certainly demonstrates the cohesiveness of the sound of the orchestra in this library. Thanks for posting.


----------



## Itcantrainallthetime

Hello there, I am a Win10 user on Cubase Pro10. And with v.1.0.5 I was finally able to use BBC S.O..
So I thought I’ll make a mockup of an existing piece of music to get a feeling for this new library.
If you are interested, here it is:


Best wishes to y’all!


----------



## Zero&One

Itcantrainallthetime said:


> Hello there, I am a Win10 user on Cubase Pro10. And with v.1.0.5 I was finally able to use BBC S.O.



Nice!

So did 1.0.5 sort out the PC issues? Nobody has really reported back since.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

James H said:


> Nice!
> 
> So did 1.0.5 sort out the PC issues? Nobody has really reported back since.


Quick summary of the current state from my viewpoint:
My problem of memory growing kind of endless when switching different instruments has been fixed .
Loading times have been improved with the "Optimize" function in the Spitfire App .
For the moment I don't see any showstoppers that prevent Windows users from using it.

What can still be improved in comparison to Kontakt:

Kontakt has much faster loading times. The "Optimize" has improved it. But still.
Kontakt can purge samples (and only load the used ones on the fly). This is a killer feature for all people having little RAM.
Kontakt let's you play something before it is fully loaded. Somehow Kontakt puts the notes you play on top of the loading queue. With the Spitfire player you have to wait. Bad for users with a workflow without big templates who load their instruments on the fly and want to play something while it is loading/partially loaded.
You can't get under the hood and fix a bad sample. I fear this will be the same with OT's new SINE player. A bad development for experienced users.
The RAM usage shown in the plugin is ridiculous (really, it is not even in the ballpark of what is used). You need a ton more of RAM of what is shown in the Spitfire player plugin! When the plugin shows 1GB you can at least take this number multiple times.
Still looking forward for future improvements, but it is usable


----------



## AEF

Im now getting major CPU spikes in 1.0.5 in Logic X, using just a single legato violins I patch.


----------



## funnybear

Karma said:


> Hello! If anyone's interested I just uploaded a DAWCast of my demo here:




Such a great piece. Probably my favourite demo of any of the Spitfire library demos. And shows off BBCSO really well.


----------



## dzilizzi

Just as an FYI, I doubt the actual SSD will be on sale. I believe they said they aren't actually making any money on it. Unless the parts get cheaper for them, it won't go on sale.


----------



## Zero&One

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Quick summary of the current state from my viewpoint:
> My problem of memory growing kind of endless when switching different instruments has been fixed .
> Loading times have been improved with the "Optimize" function in the Spitfire App .
> For the moment I don't see any showstoppers that prevent Windows users from using it.



That's great news  Thanks for the update, great to hear Windows users seem to be sorted.

Yeah, there's a few things that irk me but in general I like the App. Glad they have added the option to delete articulations, and the mic presets are good.


----------



## mralmostpopular

dzilizzi said:


> Just as an FYI, I doubt the actual SSD will be on sale. I believe they said they aren't actually making any money on it. Unless the parts get cheaper for them, it won't go on sale.



I suspect if they’re truly losing money, it’s because of the shipping. Mine came from London to the US in 3 days. I can’t imagine it was cheap. A Samsung Evo is $130 before any kind of bulk discount. The cases and packaging probably didn’t cost very much.


----------



## giwro

Itcantrainallthetime said:


> Hello there, I am a Win10 user on Cubase Pro10. And with v.1.0.5 I was finally able to use BBC S.O..
> So I thought I’ll make a mockup of an existing piece of music to get a feeling for this new library.
> If you are interested, here it is:
> 
> 
> Best wishes to y’all!




hmmm...

for all of the doubts and complaints that the brass might not be “epic” enough, the tutti at the end sounded pretty darn good to me...

(Looks speculatively at business account... pulls out calculator...)


----------



## dzilizzi

mralmostpopular said:


> I suspect if they’re truly losing money, it’s because of the shipping. Mine came from London to the US in 3 days. I can’t imagine it was cheap. A Samsung Evo is $130 before any kind of bulk discount. The cases and packaging probably didn’t cost very much.


I was kind of thinking that also. I think the thunderbolt connection is more than I pay for my usual USB 3.0 enclosures. I think a lot of the shipped drives were to places with slow download speeds.


----------



## dzilizzi

giwro said:


> hmmm...
> 
> for all of the doubts and complaints that the brass might not be “epic” enough, the tutti at the end sounded pretty darn good to me...
> 
> (Looks speculatively at business account... pulls out calculator...)


Wait for BF to get it, if you want it.


----------



## porrasm

James H said:


> Nice!
> 
> So did 1.0.5 sort out the PC issues? Nobody has really reported back since.


No. The Spitfire App optimize update helped alot though. Hoping that they fix this one soon™


----------



## Øivind

At this point, without having fully gone through and used all the instruments yet, the main thing that sticks out in BBCSO is the Solo Horn. Some of it sounds OK, but other parts have some strange issues.

These videos shows the Legato patch from a clean load. No changes to anything.

There seems to be some strange rolling off the top with EQ done on the sustain samples if you trigger a legato, but not if you just play them as a singe sustained notes. This is at max dynamics, which i guess is layer 2 of 2. But it's like this throughout the notes and it's not just E and F3 that sounds less than prestine. Not really a big fan of this sound, EQ or not.

View attachment bbcso_horn.mp4















Also, it seems like this EQ or maybe even a sample change comes inn on some transitions a bit after and gives it a notisable dip in volume and on some areas the reverb seems to get a notisable dip in volume as well. On one line you hear the issue, but using the note below, then the issue is gone, same one octave down.

View attachment BBCSO_solohorn_dips_in_eq_and_verb.mp4


----------



## stevedeath

After playing with it for a few weeks I think overall I'm pretty satisfied. There are some issues with it as others have pointed out, but as a convenient sketching tool where everything just sits together nicely and has a great sound out of the box its perfect!


----------



## TechHarlan

All BBCSO + a Vocal Pad library by Paul Thomson


----------



## Begfred

Simone95 said:


> All BBCSO + a Vocal Pad library by Paul Thomson



Bravo! Love it. Nice impressionist touch.


----------



## gussunkri

Simone95 said:


> All BBCSO + a Vocal Pad library by Paul Thomson



I absolutely loved that! Well done!


----------



## Javier Gonzalez

My turn I guess  All spitfire but for the horns/trumpets/trombones, which is caspian (couldn't get those brassy enough for my taste). Not shy of using EQ and a tiny bit of reverb though.


----------



## zolhof

James H said:


> So did 1.0.5 sort out the PC issues? Nobody has really reported back since.





porrasm said:


> No. The Spitfire App optimize update helped alot though. Hoping that they fix this one soon™



That's my experience as well. 

I've been chatting with support for a month now, testing early builds and trying to sort out some of the remaining issues with the player (not samples).

Even after the optimization, which indeed improved usability by a million, load times are still twice as long compared to a Mac. That's on a Samsung 860 EVO, SATA III port. Not a deal-breaker but something to keep in mind and that support has acknowledged and is actively looking into. Whatever performance boost they can squeeze out at this point it's a win for everyone.

Would I recommend BBCSO to a Windows user now? Absolutely! Don't let any of this distract you from the fact that this is a gem of a library. There's something very special about the Maida Vale sound and imho Spitfire did a superb job capturing it. We still have roughly three years of Maida Vale, so if I were on their $hoe$, I'd do a shitton of extra recordings on that room and future proof the library.


----------



## Karma

Loading times are significantly improved once more in 1.0.6 and 1.0.7. As an example... here's a clip of me loading from a fresh instance of BBCSO in 1.0.7. This is with Cubase freshly opened as well:

View attachment BBCSO Load Time.mp4

















A small disclaimer is that my BBCSO samples are on a m.2 SSD, though it's absolutely still a significant improvement. We're giving 1.0.7 a few sanity checks and then it should be good to make live.

As another example, my demo project now fully loads 27GB into Task Manager in 1 minute 50 seconds.


----------



## I like music

Karma said:


> Loading times are significantly improved once more in 1.0.6 and 1.0.7. As an example... here's a clip of me loading from a fresh instance of BBCSO in 1.0.7. This is with Cubase freshly opened as well:
> 
> View attachment BBCSO Load Time.mp4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A small disclaimer is that my BBCSO samples are on a m.2 SSD, though it's absolutely still a significant improvement. We're giving 1.0.7 a few sanity checks and then it should be good to make live.
> 
> As another example, my demo project now fully loads 27GB into Task Manager in 1 minute 50 seconds.



What! How are you loading 27gb under 2mins? Is that standard for people here? I have a fairly purged project (nothing to do with BBCSO) on Cubase on my laptop and it takes 7 minutes to load up about 15gb on Task Manager.


----------



## Technostica

I like music said:


> What! How are you loading 27gb under 2mins? Is that standard for people here? I have a fairly purged project (nothing to do with BBCSO) on Cubase on my laptop and it takes 7 minutes to load up about 15gb on Task Manager.


Karma did say that they have an M.2 drive so if that means they have a decent PCIe M.2 then that might well improve performance compared to a SATA drive be it M.2 or otherwise.
The fastest ones do have in the region of a 6x read speed plus the latency is better.


----------



## I like music

Technostica said:


> Karma did say that they have an M.2 drive so if that means they have a decent PCIe M.2 then that might well improve performance compared to a SATA drive be it M.2 or otherwise.
> The fastest ones do have in the region of a 6x read speed plus the latency is better.


I have an SSD. I think mine might be a combo of the different libraries and track count that I have (I think Play from Eastwest contributes a bit to the load times)

Anyhow, thanks for the explanation, good to know for future. I'll step back from derailing the thread.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Javier Gonzalez said:


> My turn I guess  All spitfire but for the horns/trumpets/trombones, which is caspian (couldn't get those brassy enough for my taste). Not shy of using EQ and a tiny bit of reverb though.




Beautiful! If I had to suggest anything, it would be to massage that string legato(?) line that happens between 00:19 - 00:30. It just seems to cut off too abruptly, thus giving it a synthetic sound.


----------



## Jett Hitt

AEF said:


> Im now getting major CPU spikes in 1.0.5 in Logic X, using just a single legato violins I patch.


I have this problem in Logic, too. It seems like every time I open the piano roll and fidget with something involving Violin 1 legato, I am then met with pops and cracks during playback on a Mac Pro 12 core. I haven't been able to completely isolate it, but it seems that if I work on another track, say flutes, the problem then goes away until I work on a violin legato again. It is strange. @paulthomson and @christianhenson


----------



## mralmostpopular

hittjett said:


> I have this problem in Logic, too. It seems like every time I open the piano roll and fidget with something involving Violin 1 legato, I am then met with pops and cracks during playback on a Mac Pro 12 core. I haven't been able to completely isolate it, but it seems that if I work on another track, say flutes, the problem then goes away until I work on a violin legato again. It is strange. @paulthomson and @christianhenson



That’s very interesting. I’m having some cpu spikes, as well. I have a 6-core, and thought it was just me.


----------



## Fry777

Wolfie2112 said:


> Beautiful! If I had to suggest anything, it would be to massage that string legato(?) line that happens between 00:19 - 00:30. It just seems to cut off too abruptly, thus giving it a synthetic sound.



Speaking of which, is there any kind of release setting in BBCSO to use when writing these types of legato lines?


----------



## Camus

Javier Gonzalez said:


> My turn I guess  All spitfire but for the horns/trumpets/trombones, which is caspian (couldn't get those brassy enough for my taste). Not shy of using EQ and a tiny bit of reverb though.




Out of curiousity: All Spitfire means BBC only? Or Mural/Sable/Symphonic/Chamber......included ?


----------



## Simon Ravn

Camus said:


> Out of curiousity: All Spitfire means BBC only? Or Mural/Sable/Symphonic/Chamber......included ?



Must be all BBC strings - you can hear how out of tune they are...


----------



## Brasart

I wanted to tried my hand at a quick bombastic track mockup, so I went with recreating "Don't Be Afraid" from the Final Fantasy VIII original soundtrack :



It's a quick rundown of the piece, I'm not used to orchestrating already existing pieces, and I'm not sold on what I've done with the very fast brass/winds staccatos, I think I should have went with a blend of multitongue and staccatos.

Everything is Mix1 except long strings which might have had some spills and amb mics added, some short brass like trumpets are Mix2 too I think.

There are some additional compressors and light EQs, no external reverb.

And here's the wav if you can't stand what Soundcloud does to sound : https://www.dropbox.com/s/r3pnhh37p90d4jo/Don%27t%20Be%20Afraid%20-%20BBCSO%20Orchestral%20Mockup%20Test.wav?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/r3pnhh37p90d4jo/Don't Be Afraid - BBCSO Orchestral Mockup Test.wav?dl=0)


----------



## JT

I've read on different threads that SF will be selling BBCSO at the intro price during BF. I don't see that on their website.


----------



## Brasart

JT said:


> I've read on different threads that SF will be selling BBCSO at the intro price during BF. I don't see that on their website.



Sale is starting on the 28th


----------



## prodigalson

Just wanted to update for those interested that I recently got delivery of the new 16" MacBook Pro. 
8-core i9 with 64GB RAM (I need it to work remotely on a project in the spring). 

it loaded all Christians Satie project in 1 min and 25 seconds. Thats the time from clicking on the project (including Logic opening) and all samples loaded in to RAM...85 seconds. 

BBCSO 1.0.5 and Logic Pro 10.4.7. Samples are on a Samsung external SSD via USB-C.

It ran flawlessly with no dropouts on 128 sample buffer. Every thread happily sitting around 15%. Absolutely incredible machine. It blows my main machine (iMac 2013 Quad core i5) out of the water and I'm genuinely consdering for the first time just using my MacBook Pro as my main machine.


----------



## 5Lives

Great to hear the new MBP handles this without a sweat! Contemplating upgrading to that (or the 2019 iMac, but only 2 TB3 ports on that).


----------



## staypuft

That is how you do it.


----------



## 5Lives

staypuft said:


> That is how you do it.




Do what? You haven't used it so how do you know it is going to work any better or worse? Basically looks like a custom sample player - just like Spitfire's.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

staypuft said:


> That is how you do it.




Do what? Well, at least the dude is super excited.


----------



## Zero&One

Yeah, do what?

He has a nice living room space, I liked his table lamp too. Nice setup.
Other than that, it was a friendly guy talking about something I've yet to see?


----------



## Daniel Stenning

Wolfie2112 said:


> In your BBC template, do have all of the other articulations (within a given instance) trashed? I can load up every instrument just fine on my MB Pro using this method.



no not currently. its all the articulations as they come straight out of box"

And really want to keep that the case if at all possible.


----------



## Fleer

prodigalson said:


> Just wanted to update for those interested that I recently got delivery of the new 16" MacBook Pro.
> 8-core i9 with 64GB RAM (I need it to work remotely on a project in the spring).
> 
> it loaded all Christians Satie project in 1 min and 25 seconds. Thats the time from clicking on the project (including Logic opening) and all samples loaded in to RAM...85 seconds.
> 
> BBCSO 1.0.5 and Logic Pro 10.4.7. Samples are on a Samsung external SSD via USB-C.
> 
> It ran flawlessly with no dropouts on 128 sample buffer. Every thread happily sitting around 15%. Absolutely incredible machine. It blows my main machine (iMac 2013 Quad core i5) out of the water and I'm genuinely consdering for the first time just using my MacBook Pro as my main machine.


Did you get the 5500M with 8GB of VRAM? If yes, why? If not, also why?


----------



## Daniel James

5Lives said:


> Do what? You haven't used it so how do you know it is going to work any better or worse? Basically looks like a custom sample player - just like Spitfire's.



Did you watch the video or are you just blindly making that statement?

The two they talked about so far that interest me are:

Mic Merging, so instead of having to load up multiple RAM hungry mic positions you can find your mix and render it as a new, baked in, custom mic mix....where can I do that in the Spitfire player?

Downloading only the instruments and mics you need meaning you can get going quickly....can the spitfire downloader do that yet?

Now what are some things that the Spitfire player is doing that I can not already do in this or Kontakt? Other than give me a fuck ton of time to think my purchasing decisions.

OT are clearly looking at ways to make the lives of composers easier. From the outset it looks like a composer focused attempt at a player. And when he said in the video its laying the ground work for future innovation, I actually believe him, OT tend not to promise the moon and stars for what ends up being another average library.

So yes that's the way you do it, unless you are actively trying not to see how these _actual _innovations or a good thing for you as a composer.

-DJ


----------



## Michael Antrum

Could not agree more Mr DJ. I am really excited to see this in the flesh, though I’m not sure that Junkie XL bras is quite my thang....

(edit: or even the brass for that matter...)

I’m particularly interestEd to see how it handles system resources, particularly with the Berlin Capsule libraries as in Kontakt they can be, ahem, a little demanding.

However, if they really want the Nobel Prize for sample libraries, wouldn’t it be fabulous if they managed to balance the instruments together unlike the Kontakt versions, where the levels are a little more, erm, uncivilised.

I am looking forward to exploring Sine over the Christmas break, if they hopefully have transferred some of the back catalogue over.


----------



## Michael Antrum

It comes with a large knob.


----------



## mikeh-375

Kontakt with a large knob....?......


----------



## 5Lives

Daniel James said:


> Did you watch the video or are you just blindly making that statement?



Are you blindly accusing me of not watching it? Of course I did. The person I quoted made a vague statement (Though obviously a slight against Spitfire since they came to this thread to post it) and as we’ve all learned, it remains to be seen what performance is like. The things you like about it are not particularly interesting to me as bandwidth speeds are very high these days and will only get higher, and hard drive space is extremely inexpensive, as is RAM (so many of us are running at least 64GB). The thing that IS interesting is the auto-leveling feature but I don’t know what Spitfire or Play or any of these other engines are doing under the hood. Same goes for Kontakt scripting. And above all, it remains to be seen how it actually performs and if it makes a noticeable difference to the sound.

Perhaps put your very apparent biases aside for a second and you can also see that Spitfire recording an entire orchestra and making it available for < $1k is helping composers.

And OT have had their fair share of big launches of what turned out to be disappointing products.


----------



## Oliver

5Lives said:


> Are you blindly me accusing me of not watching it? Of course I did. The person I quoted made a vague statement (Though obviously a slight against Spitfire since they came to this thread to post it) and as we’ve all learned, it remains to be seen what performance is like. The things you like about it are not particularly interesting to me as bandwidth speeds are very high these days and will only get higher, and hard drive space is extremely inexpensive, as is RAM (so many of us are running at least 64GB). The thing that IS interesting is the auto-leveling feature but I don’t know what Spitfire or Play or any of these other engines are doing under the hood. Same goes for Kontakt scripting. And above all, it remains to be seen how it actually performs and if it makes a noticeable difference to the sound.
> 
> Perhaps put your very apparent biases aside for a second and you can also see that Spitfire recording an entire orchestra and making it available for < $1k is helping composers.
> 
> And OT have had their fair share of big launches of what turned out to be disappointing products.



what disappointing products?


----------



## cqd

New collections up?..
Gold for 5k..
I'm starting to think they just take their customers for complete idiots with too much money to spend..
(Could be a reasonable assumption..)


----------



## Michael Antrum

Gold - The Spandau Ballet Toolkit ?


----------



## prodigalson

Fleer said:


> Did you get the 5500M with 8GB of VRAM? If yes, why? If not, also why?



I just got the basic graphics card. Upgrading the CPU and RAM was about as much of the Apple tax as I could bear and I'm not using it for any video production of any kind so its more than enough for me. It's very snappy and havent noticed any graphical issues of any kind.


----------



## cqd

premium

NOUN

1. an amount to be paid for a contract of insurance.

2. a sum added to an ordinary price or charge.

. a sum added to interest or wages; a bonus.

. relating to or denoting a commodity of superior quality and therefore a higher price

3. something given as a reward, prize, or incentive.


----------



## AllanH

I just noticed a 1.0.7 player update. I'm downloading


----------



## Zero&One

cqd said:


> 3. something given as a reward, prize, or incentive.



Aperture is Premium! I knew it was out of my league


----------



## AndyP

cqd said:


> New collections up?..
> Gold for 5k..
> I'm starting to think they just take their customers for complete idiots with too much money to spend..
> (Could be a reasonable assumption..)


This thought can flash up every now and then.


----------



## porrasm

Massive improvements with v1.0.7. Loading speeds are around 3-5 times faster for me than before. Disk utilization also seemed to be better and load times were bottlenecked by my slow CPU instead of the plugin. 

Major improvement for me.


----------



## mistermister

porrasm said:


> Massive improvements with v1.0.7. Loading speeds are around 3-5 times faster for me than before. Disk utilization also seemed to be better and load times were bottlenecked by my slow CPU instead of the plugin.
> 
> Major improvement for me.


RAM usage has just about halved for me too, though the extent of my testing was to open up some of my projects from before and compare memory usage in the task manager.


----------



## Fleer

prodigalson said:


> I just got the basic graphics card. Upgrading the CPU and RAM was about as much of the Apple tax as I could bear and I'm not using it for any video production of any kind so its more than enough for me. It's very snappy and havent noticed any graphical issues of any kind.


Thanks. I’m thinking of doing the same.


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

prodigalson said:


> It ran flawlessly with no dropouts on 128 sample buffer. Every thread happily sitting around 15%. Absolutely incredible machine.


could you state for which of two i9s you went? Great to hear, it's doing fine. How does it perform once you start actually mixing - not only using instruments but third party plugins. You don't have any chance of testing with another DAW?

...is there some other DAW running on catalina anyway?


----------



## SpitfireSupport

As some above have mentioned you should now see 1.0.7 of the plugin available in the Spitfire App.

This one features a few significant changes, notably you should find improvements in the initial plugin loading times, memory usage, as well as sample load times.

Luke


----------



## Daniel James

5Lives said:


> Are you blindly accusing me of not watching it? Of course I did. The person I quoted made a vague statement (Though obviously a slight against Spitfire since they came to this thread to post it) and as we’ve all learned, it remains to be seen what performance is like. The things you like about it are not particularly interesting to me as bandwidth speeds are very high these days and will only get higher, and hard drive space is extremely inexpensive, as is RAM (so many of us are running at least 64GB). The thing that IS interesting is the auto-leveling feature but I don’t know what Spitfire or Play or any of these other engines are doing under the hood. Same goes for Kontakt scripting. And above all, it remains to be seen how it actually performs and if it makes a noticeable difference to the sound.
> 
> Perhaps put your very apparent biases aside for a second and you can also see that Spitfire recording an entire orchestra and making it available for < $1k is helping composers.
> 
> And OT have had their fair share of big launches of what turned out to be disappointing products.





5Lives said:


> Are you blindly accusing me of not watching it? Of course I did. The person I quoted made a vague statement (Though obviously a slight against Spitfire since they came to this thread to post it) and as we’ve all learned, it remains to be seen what performance is like. The things you like about it are not particularly interesting to me as bandwidth speeds are very high these days and will only get higher, and hard drive space is extremely inexpensive, as is RAM (so many of us are running at least 64GB). The thing that IS interesting is the auto-leveling feature but I don’t know what Spitfire or Play or any of these other engines are doing under the hood. Same goes for Kontakt scripting. And above all, it remains to be seen how it actually performs and if it makes a noticeable difference to the sound.
> 
> Perhaps put your very apparent biases aside for a second and you can also see that Spitfire recording an entire orchestra and making it available for < $1k is helping composers.
> 
> And OT have had their fair share of big launches of what turned out to be disappointing products.



Yes I was! because your post was suggesting that Sine was just another player like the Spitfire player. Willingly overlooking the fact they are trying to bring actual innovation to the table. It’s not even about bias when there is actual features to point to as evidence for my statement. One could suggest that bias is coming from those that defend sub par software because of who made it, rather than being able to point to actual features of the engine that actually push the format forward.

If I say something is good or shit I make sure to say why. Make a point of recognizing that before pinning everything on bias.

-DJ


----------



## 5Lives

Daniel James said:


> If I say something is good or shit I make sure to say why. Make a point of recognizing that before pinning everything on bias.



Whatever you say buddy.  Maybe give the rest of us the same recognition. My opinion is SINE is mostly just another sample player that happens to have a shop and download manager built into it. If you want a single mic mix to use for every track you work on, it'll be the perfect tool for you. I don't find that particularly useful vs. having all the mics available to me depending on what the track mix needs. Plenty of developers have been allowing customers to download only "main mix" samples, so this is another spin on that. If it is some way to save RAM in real-time, that's more compelling (unclear from their site). I do think the auto-volume leveling is an interesting piece of tech though, but once again, not sure if OT is the first to do it or just the first to publicize it. Honestly, I think VSL has had the most advanced sample players in the industry for a while. Maybe too advanced for me though. Too many options.

In news for the rest of us, looks like the sales prices are up and they are discounting the SSD again as well https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/bbc-symphony-orchestra/

And seems like the 1.07 update has made significant improvements to their "sub-par" player.


----------



## vdk-john

5Lives said:


> If you want a single mic mix to use for every track you work on, it'll be the perfect tool for you. I don't find that particularly useful vs. having all the mics available to me depending on what the track mix needs. Plenty of developers have been allowing customers to download only "main mix" samples, so this is another spin on that



However DJ was talking about innovation and that's not subjective. If the OT sampler brings new features (from a technical point of view) like generating a mix mic based on your current selection of mics (if I got that right) that's something new that hasn't been done and could change how people use it. Whether you find it useful is not relevant in this context. Same however could be said of having all those mic positions in BBC SO that are not possible in kontakt if I'm right and that would mean spitfire player is also bring innovation


----------



## ridgero

SpitfireSupport said:


> As some above have mentioned you should now see 1.0.7 of the plugin available in the Spitfire App.
> 
> This one features a few significant changes, notably you should find improvements in the initial plugin loading times, memory usage, as well as sample load times.
> 
> Luke



Insanely fast!!!

Thanks for that great update


----------



## 5Lives

vdk-john said:


> However DJ was talking about innovation and that's not subjective. If the OT sampler brings new features (from a technical point of view) like generating a mix mic based on your current selection of mics (if I got that right) that's something new that hasn't been done and could change how people use it. Whether you find it useful is not relevant in this context. Same however could be said of having all those mic positions in BBC SO that are not possible in kontakt if I'm right and that would mean spitfire player is also bring innovation



I do agree that if the mic mix thing is a RAM optimization thing (where you still have downloaded all the mics and then in your project decide on the mic mix but then instead of using samples from all the mics, it "creates" a new set of samples somehow based on the mic mix and only loads that into RAM), that would be pretty killer. Hopefully they'll provide more details on that functionality in the coming weeks.

My original statement still stands though that performance remains to be seen and can be a tricky beast, especially on Windows. So before we all crown SINE the king of all players (or the way to do it), perhaps we should let it come out first and see how it works.


----------



## vdk-john

5Lives said:


> So before we all crown SINE the king of all players (or the way to do it), perhaps we should let it come out first and see how it works.



Yep I also agree on this


----------



## staypuft

5Lives said:


> The person I quoted made a vague statement





5Lives said:


> My opinion is SINE is mostly just another sample player that happens to have a shop and download manager built into it



:dodgy:


----------



## bvaughn0402

I do think SINE is innovative. I don't lament the fact the SpitFire one is not as much.

My HOPE is that SpitFire will take a page from Apple ... take an innovation, incorporate it, and make it even better. 

So now that SpitFire has a player that is improving as we speak ... now maybe they can explore some of the innovative features in SINE and see if they can "SpitFire" them.


----------



## staypuft

Again, that is how you do it:

MULTITIMBRAL
Mic-Merging
RR and extensive dynamic management //LOL
Smart keyswitching, batch-remap
Intelligent envelope //ROFL
Download a la carte
Adaptive volume scaling for fluid legato and convincing releases //RIP

Fast and fluid on Windows 10, Junkie is a Windows-Cubase user. Equaly optimized for macOS. Unlike Spitfire, OT uses both ecosystems and won't be like //oh shit we forgot to test our plugin on Windows.....DAMAGE CONTROL\\

There is more to it but I can't continue without getting people in trouble. You get the idea, if not Sine will be available as a free download on December 16th, you will crap your pants and eat it


----------



## jbuhler

staypuft said:


> Again, that is how you do it:
> 
> MULTITIMBRAL
> Mic-Merging
> RR and extensive dynamic management //LOL
> Smart keyswitching, batch-remap
> Intelligent envelope //ROFL
> Download a la carte
> Adaptive volume scaling for fluid legato and convincing releases //RIP
> 
> Fast and fluid on Windows 10, Junkie is a Windows-Cubase user. Equaly optimized for macOS. Unlike Spitfire, OT uses both ecosystems and won't be like //oh shit we forgot to test our plugin on Windows.....DAMAGE CONTROL\\
> 
> There is more to it but I can't continue without getting people in trouble. You get the idea, if not Sine will be available as a free download on December 16th, you will crap your pants and eat it


I've had enough issues with Capsule over the years that I'll wait to see if their player is functional and doesn't require an absurd amount of RAM before getting excited.


----------



## MartinH.

Can't you guys at least wait till the other player is released and tested by the public, before you start the banter trash-talking about whose favorite team has made the better custom sample player?


----------



## Zero&One

Surprised he didn't just post this... 
vi-c members can see the future now, and everything it will offer. What a place to be!


----------



## CT

staypuft said:


> You get the idea, if not Sine will be available as a free download on December 16th, you will crap your pants and eat it



Do you do that regularly?


----------



## Jdiggity1

staypuft said:


> Unlike Spitfire, OT uses both ecosystems and won't be like //oh shit we forgot to test our plugin on Windows.....DAMAGE CONTROL\\


Just a Public Service Announcement to anybody reading the post quoted above:
This is speculation, and not a fact. I advise you to ignore


----------



## NoamL

Both SINE and SpitfirePlayer are very positive developments from a composer/synthestrator POV 

There are downsides to moving away from Kontakt, but long term it seems like the possibility unlocked when developers create their own players with the features they want, is a positive step.


----------



## bvaughn0402

NoamL said:


> Both SINE and SpitfirePlayer are very positive developments from a composer/synthestrator POV



So true ... how quickly I can get spoiled to advancements that didn't exist 10 years ago.

I was listening to Abbey Road today and wondering how amazed the Beatles would be with EITHER SINE or SF Player back in their days.


----------



## bricop

Just found this in my YouTube feed:


----------



## CT

This seems to have the same issue as my Bach orchestration: MIDI rather than real-time performance, at least in spots. And the mix is oddly wide... but it still shows how effortlessly this thing can usually handle what's thrown at it.


----------



## babylonwaves

Manuel Stumpf said:


> The RAM usage shown in the plugin is ridiculous (really, it is not even in the ballpark of what is used). You need a ton more of RAM of what is shown in the Spitfire player plugin! When the plugin shows 1GB you can at least take this number multiple times.



the plug-ins shows the correct figures here, but there is a baseline of about 2GB you need to add first. So, if you load 5GB worth of samples, spread over multiple instances of the SF player, the memory consumption reported by Logic is around 7GB. If you Load 10GB, Logic will eat around 12GB.

Is that different for you?


----------



## ism

bricop said:


> Just found this in my YouTube feed:





The sound is right for Debussy. Very suggestive of what could be done. Does have a midi feel at time, but in a way that suggests that it's the midi programming that wants a bit of tweaking/ performance capture.

But quite wonderful in parts. And really suggestive of what’s so unique of the sound of the library.


----------



## staypuft

miket said:


> Do you do that regularly?



ROFL!!
It was a first for me! Best sampled brass I've ever heard by a long shot.....that teaser was crap but served its purpose in showing how uncomfortably loud it can go. EPIC...not my thing. JXLB is an all-purpose brass library, it can do delicate and intimate like no other. Dec 16 is just around the corner, wait and hear for yourself.


----------



## CT

staypuft said:


> ROFL!!
> It was a first for me! Best sampled brass I've ever heard by a long shot.....that teaser was crap but served its purpose in showing how uncomfortably loud it can go. EPIC...not my thing. JXLB is an all-purpose brass library, it can do delicate and intimate like no other. Dec 16 is just around the corner, wait and hear for yourself.



What?


----------



## staypuft

miket said:


> What?


It was a first for me! Best sampled brass I've ever heard by a long shot.....that teaser was crap but served its purpose in showing how uncomfortably loud it can go. EPIC...not my thing. JXLB is an all-purpose brass library, it can do delicate and intimate like no other. Dec 16 is just around the corner, wait and hear for yourself.


----------



## dzilizzi

MartinH. said:


> Can't you guys at least wait till the other player is released and tested by the public, before you start the banter trash-talking about whose favorite team has made the better custom sample player?


Now where's the fun in that. Speculation is what's made this thread great! 

Though really, we should give OT their own speculation thread.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

babylonwaves said:


> the plug-ins shows the correct figures here, but there is a baseline of about 2GB you need to add first. So, if you load 5GB worth of samples, spread over multiple instances of the SF player, the memory consumption reported by Logic is around 7GB. If you Load 10GB, Logic will eat around 12GB.
> 
> Is that different for you?


Yup. On Windows it is pulling a lot more memory than your figures. I'd be delighted if 5GB of samples would fit into 7GB of RAM.
Installing the lastest update now, I was still on V1.0.5. We will see. I am sure the programmers are still working hard on improvements.


----------



## CT




----------



## staypuft

dzilizzi said:


> Now where's the fun in that. Speculation is what's made this thread great!
> 
> Though really, we should give OT their own speculation thread.


It's all fun and chocolates until someone shows how limited the Spitfire player actually is. Joke's on the fanboys who will never be able to change simple stuff like legato release or attack length. The outcome is those egregious mockups //ironically by the most vocal here that fail miserably at delivering a single convincing line.


----------



## CT

staypuft said:


> It's all fun and chocolates until someone shows how limited the Spitfire player actually is. Joke's on the fanboys who will never be able to change simple stuff like legato release or attack length. The outcome is those egregious mockups //ironically by the most vocal here that fail miserably at delivering a single convincing line.



Can we hear your gloriously rendered music please?


----------



## staypuft

miket said:


> Can we hear your gloriously rendered music please?


What?


----------



## CT

staypuft said:


> What?



Can we hear your gloriously rendered music please?


----------



## Daniel James

miket said:


> Can we hear your gloriously rendered music please?


I could watch a whole show of you two xD

-DJ


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

staypuft said:


> Joke's on the fanboys who will never be able to change simple stuff like legato release or attack length



Fair enough, call me a fanboy if you like. What I can tell you is....BBCSO has paid for itself a few times over since I installed it (literally) and the customers are happy. I love the simplicity and workflow of the player, I'm one of the few that gets by just fine with the default mic positions and presets of all my VI's. I occasionally adjust the releases BBCSO, but it suits my needs just fine.


----------



## 5Lives

miket said:


> Can we hear your gloriously rendered music please?



You’ll need to wait until December 16. Then you will hear his music, crap your pants, and eat it.


----------



## Alex Fraser

5Lives said:


> You’ll need to wait until December 16. Then you will hear his music, crap your pants, and eat it.


I LOL’d and woke the baby up. Thanks for that. 😉


----------



## Alex Fraser

Fan wankery over tech features of the respective players is fun but ultimately pointless. Both companies have identified their target customers and have designed accordingly.

That said, unless I’m misunderstanding..a shop window in the plugin? No ta.


----------



## CT

staypuft said:


> I think you are trolling however i´ll give you the benefit of the doubt....here´s a track i´m working atm. Strings and brass Strezov. Woods, perc and fx are a mix of Thrill, RRA and Sonokinetic.



Trolling? Not at all. If you are going to dismiss everything you've heard from others, it only seems reasonable to show something of your own.

There are lots of shorts and "FX" in that, and I assume phrases given Sonokinetic. Also some pre-recorded aleatoric stuff from Strezov, RRA, Thrill? Not the most demanding thing to make sound convincing, and clearly not in the mission statement of BBCSO.

How about something that successfully does what you were lamenting others can't achieve with BBCSO? Legato releases, attacks etc.


----------



## Jdiggity1

"Proving yourself" is not a prerequisite for having a whine on a forum.
If staypuft wants to share his works he can do so in the Members Compositions subforum unless directly relevant to this thread.
I think his position is pretty clear to must of us by now and we can choose to ignore it or not.


----------



## Denkii

he DID prove himself very well though.


----------



## CT

Jdiggity1 said:


> "Proving yourself" is not a prerequisite for having a whine on a forum.



A prerequisite? No, of course not. But, a reasonable request, I think, in response to the efforts of the "fanboys" on this forum being summarily dismissed, if for no other reason than to see how wide a gap there is between ability and common decency.


----------



## Brasart

staypuft said:


> It's all fun and chocolates until someone shows how limited the Spitfire player actually is. Joke's on the fanboys who will never be able to change simple stuff like legato release or attack length. The outcome is those egregious mockups //ironically by the most vocal here that fail miserably at delivering a single convincing line.



Is this forum a nursery for frustrated adults? Chill out a bit, hate boners are embarrassing to read


----------



## Denkii

miket said:


> A prerequisite? No, of course not. But, a reasonable request, I think, in response to the efforts of the "fanboys" on this forum being summarily dismissed, if for no other reason than to see how wide a gap there is between ability and common decency.


That would render skill as a prerequisite to enter different spheres where your opinion is only then allowed to exist...if that was the case for our society, most people would not be allowed to vote.
I think it was a bold move of staypuft to upload an example, I do not believe that it was objectively a reasonable request. I will think about it more like a request out of curiosity.


----------



## chemie262

1.07 is really a major step in the right direction for Windows/Cubase users.
I am on vacation with an Asus ZenBook 16 GB, I7 8650U, 4 cores
My project, which used 47 GB RAM on my home system (Ryzen Threadripper 2950, 128 GB, 16 cores),
did run with terrible dropouts and crackles.
Now it runs smoothly and uses only 13.5 GB. 
With version 1.05 I had to freeze all tracks but the one I actually worked on. And it took much longer to load/unload.
Really amazing! Congratulation to the Spitfire team!


----------



## staypuft

miket said:


> Trolling? Not at all. If you are going to dismiss everything you've heard from others, it only seems reasonable to show something of your own.


Not being dismissive at all...after being repeatedly ridiculed by you and others, my only conclusion is that some of you are fanboys who can´t handle criticism. You don´t even work for Spitfire which is nuts to me but ok. The bad mockups are just that....bad mockups that could be improved by having more control //also opinions, if you are happy with your mockups good for you!




miket said:


> There are lots of shorts and "FX" in that, and I assume phrases given Sonokinetic. Also some pre-recorded aleatoric stuff from Strezov, RRA, Thrill? Not the most demanding thing to make sound convincing, and clearly not in the mission statement of BBCSO.
> 
> How about something that successfully does what you were lamenting others can't achieve with BBCSO? Legato releases, attacks etc.



From my experience that´s the most demanding stuff. I don´t use phrase libraries //Symphobia counts?? I have Sonokinetic WW Ensemble. Strezov libs are great for shorts, Infinite Brass too, not an easy feat to pull off, hours of programming... I´m done sharing stuff here, PM me for more and i´ll send ya an autographed headshot as well :D

In any case, you are missing the point which is BBCSO can´t do any of this stuff unless we have control over attacks and releases. Even some basic ADSR per articulation would help to shape individual notes...


----------



## Joel Ewers

chemie262 said:


> 1.07 is really a major step in the right direction for Windows/Cubase users.
> I am on vacation with an Asus ZenBook 16 GB, I7 8650U, 4 cores
> My project, which used 47 GB RAM on my home system (Ryzen Threadripper 2950, 128 GB, 16 cores),
> did run with terrible dropouts and crackles.
> Now it runs smoothly and uses only 13.5 GB.
> With version 1.05 I had to freeze all tracks but the one I actually worked on. And it took much longer to load/unload.
> Really amazing! Congratulation to the Spitfire team!



Wow. This is great news!


----------



## MDMullins

Spitfire website down for everybody? Has Black Friday crashed the site?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

staypuft said:


> Not being dismissive at all...after being repeatedly ridiculed by you and others, my only conclusion is that some of you are fanboys who can´t handle criticism. You don´t even work for Spitfire which is nuts to me but ok. The bad mockups are just that....bad mockups that could be improved by having more control //also opinions, if you are happy with your mockups good for you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From my experience that´s the most demanding stuff. I don´t use phrase libraries //Symphobia counts?? I have Sonokinetic WW Ensemble. Strezov libs are great for shorts, Infinite Brass too, not an easy feat to pull off, hours of programming... I´m done sharing stuff here, PM me for more and i´ll send ya an autographed headshot as well :D
> 
> In any case, you are missing the point which is BBCSO can´t do any of this stuff unless we have control over attacks and releases. Even some basic ADSR per articulation would help to shape individual notes...



I don’t think BBCSO was intended for the type of cue you posted (which sounded pretty cool btw). That’s the beauty of having different libraries for specific tasks/genres.


----------



## Levon

MDMullins said:


> Spitfire website down for everybody? Has Black Friday crashed the site?





MDMullins said:


> Spitfire website down for everybody? Has Black Friday crashed the site?


Yes can’t access it either


----------



## Fleer

Subscription only.


----------



## Technostica

Fleer said:


> Subscription only.


Just to access the website? Jesus, I guess Christian must read The Times online then?


----------



## dzilizzi

Technostica said:


> Just to access the website? Jesus, I guess Christian must read The Times online then?


Joke. They aren't subscription.....yet.


----------



## Zero&One

Jdiggity1 said:


> I think his position is pretty clear to must of us by now and we can choose to ignore it or not.



it's hard to ignore when he's posting these crazy paragraphs. My thumb can't scroll fast enough


----------



## Technostica

dzilizzi said:


> Joke. They aren't subscription.....yet.


Sure, I was joking that it's subscription only just to access the website a la The Times.


----------



## Jdiggity1

James H said:


> it's hard to ignore when he's posting these crazy paragraphs. My thumb can't scroll fast enough


Maybe if we don't make eye contact, he'll leave us alone.... 👀


----------



## Alex Fraser

Jdiggity1 said:


> Maybe if we don't make eye contact, he'll leave us alone.... 👀


I'm sure there's a joke about "choosing the form of the destructor" in there somewhere, but I'm too tired to make the pieces work..


----------



## Cormast

HEY SPITFIRE TEAM ! We need ADSR on labs


----------



## Paul Cardon

I think the thing guys like slaybuff don't understand is... just because I hate the tone and anger doesn't make me a shill. Many of us wouldn't talk about ANY devs in the way these guys talk about Spitfire. It's not a Spitfire-exclusive attitude.

Fuck yeah let's be reasonably critical and smart about this stuff, but y'all can be rude as hell.

As always, there're great concerns and requests all throughout the thread and that's gotta keep happening.

But it's not about being or not being a "shill"; it's about not being an asshole.


----------



## staypuft

Paul Cardon said:


> I think the thing guys like slaybuff don't understand is... just because I hate the tone and anger doesn't make me a shill. Many of us wouldn't talk about ANY devs in the way these guys talk about Spitfire. It's not a Spitfire-exclusive attitude.
> 
> Fuck yeah let's be reasonably critical and smart about this stuff, but y'all can be rude as hell.
> 
> As always, there're great concerns and requests all throughout the thread and that's gotta keep happening.
> 
> But it's not about being or not being a "shill"; it's about not being an asshole.



Classy! More unwarranted insults from someone I never heard of before...you can keep the abuse coming all day, it won´t help you getting more out of BBCSO or whatever library Spitfire decides to port to the merlin engine.

Take the red pill...


----------



## CT

Which one will make me more manly? I can't remember.


----------



## ag75

I kinda do regret preordering the BBC orchestra so close to Black Friday. I didn’t realize it was going back to the pre-order price so soon. I will be more careful next time not to fall for the hype. Actually unless you REALLY need a library it’s foolish to ever purchase outside of BF dont ya think?!


----------



## mralmostpopular

ag75 said:


> I kinda do regret preordering the BBC orchestra so close to Black Friday. I didn’t realize it was going back to the pre-order price so soon. I will be more careful next time not to fall for the hype. Actually unless you REALLY need a library it’s foolish to ever purchase outside of BF dont ya think?!



It’s really not worth regret. I would’ve waited had Spitfire confirmed the SSD price, but they didn’t. Based on the info I had at the time, I made the best decision I could. It’s good not to fall for hype, so just take it as lesson learned.

That being said, the fact that you’re feeling this way kind of shows how silly it is that they’re throwing in an extra freebie on for BF so soon after the pre-order ended.


----------



## ag75

mralmostpopular said:


> It’s really not worth regret. I would’ve waited had Spitfire confirmed the SSD price, but they didn’t. Based on the info I had at the time, I made the best decision I could. It’s good not to fall for hype, so just take it as lesson learned.
> 
> That being said, the fact that you’re feeling this way kind of shows how silly it is that they’re throwing in an extra freebie on for BF so soon after the pre-order ended.


And to throw salt in the wound, I’m out on tour and the BBC is waiting on me at home. So I haven’t even had a chance to play with it at all! 😂 so the only reason I ordered it early was to lock in that price which I thought would never happen again. Lesson learned.


----------



## mralmostpopular

ag75 said:


> And to throw salt in the wound, I’m out on tour and the BBC is waiting on me at home. So I haven’t even had a chance to play with it at all! 😂 so the only reason I ordered it early was to lock in that price which I thought would never happen again. Lesson learned.



Just think of it as something to look forward to when you head back home.


----------



## PerryD

erica-grace said:


> Very nice!
> 
> I wanted to hear more, however :(


 Updated version.


----------



## PerryD

I am still having an issue with BBCSO in Windows 10 64gb ram. Optimized the disk and using 1.0.7, streaming from the Spitfire SSD via USB3.0 A project using a few instances of BBCSO (6.3gb) Studio One 4.5.5 hangs upon closing and has to be ended using task manager. BBCSO loads those 6.3gb in about 5 minutes. It performs well but I certainly don't like the hanging issue. :/


----------



## al_net77

I have a similar configuration (W10 64GB, SO 4.5.5, BBCSO 1.0.7) but no hangs at closing.
My experience is that SO hangs on close for drivers (MOTU) and Sonarworks...


----------



## gtrwll

1.0.7 was a major improvement on loading times here, cut it around 40% shorter. Now I don't even have time to brew my morning coffee while waiting for the template to load.


----------



## Zero&One

Yeah 1.0.7 seems good.
I have a test load project, just to make sure I'm not getting a placebo effect.

Went from 2:26 to 1:44 version 0.3 to 0.5
This now loads at 1:24


----------



## Farkle

staypuft said:


> I think you are trolling however i´ll give you the benefit of the doubt....here´s a track i´m working atm. Strings and brass Strezov. Woods, perc and fx are a mix of Thrill, RRA and Sonokinetic.



I'm not dropping in to contribute to this debate one way or the other. I just wanted to say, @staypuft , I really enjoyed this mockup you posted. I think it's got some great orchestral character, the instruments articulate very well, and it's a very well spatialized result. And, emotionally, it's great, driving, dissonant, dark and energetic. Really nice, and thank you for sharing.

I'm not hopping in to discuss whether this was phrase based, played in, programmed in, etc. I'm just hopping in to say, that's a really well composed and executed mockup. Thank you!

Happy Thanksgiving!

Mike

Ps. This mockup did encourage me to look at Strezov Strings and Brass for the new year... I'm intrigued by them.


----------



## ism

staypuft said:


> Classy! More unwarranted insults from someone I never heard of before...you can keep the abuse coming all day, it won´t help you getting more out of BBCSO or whatever library Spitfire decides to port to the merlin engine.
> 
> Take the red pill...



Clearly, this library isn’t for you. I think we can all respect that,

However, you seem to have joined this thread - and perhaps even this forum - explicitly to attack a single library/developer, and your sweeping accusations of ‘fanboyism’ are being read as attacks on those of us who do work in (or aspire to work in) the kinds of artistic spaces that this library does open up.

You don’t need to share that artistic vision. Or understand it, or care about it. But your only reason to be on this thread/form seems to be to antagonize libraries and composers who do aspire to this space.


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

Hello everybody! Here's something I just finished working on. It features strings and a bit of percussions


----------



## jbuhler

al_net77 said:


> I have a similar configuration (W10 64GB, SO 4.5.5, BBCSO 1.0.7) but no hangs at closing.
> My experience is that SO hangs on close for drivers (MOTU) and Sonarworks...


On the Mac I’ve had hang on close since Studio One 3 and the culprit seems to be Kontakt. At least any project that has an instance of Kontakt that I have open for more than about 15 minutes has to be force closed after I quit the program or close the project.


----------



## JJHLH

staypuft said:


> my only conclusion is that some of you are fanboys who can´t handle criticism.



I don‘t like the term ”fanboy”, since I find it needlessly insulting, but I thought the mix you posted was excellent!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

JJHLH said:


> I don‘t like the term ”fanboy”, since I find it needlessly insulting, but I thought the mix you posted was excellent!



Most of us are running BBCSO with success (and love it), therefore we are "fanboys". Too funny.


----------



## RogiervG

What i don't get is, why is BBCSO so much cheaper compared to SSO or SScO, but has more content overal (even more mic positions). I don't buy the argument "because it's cheaper to not have to have the kontakt libraries signed so it works with the kontakt player too".. sure it might help a bit.. but on the big whole, it's just a financial pocket money investment, considering the sale returns.
So, what is the catch? less quality per instrument? less quality player? special deal with BBC? 

geniune question..


----------



## dzilizzi

RogiervG said:


> What i don't get is, why is BBCSO so much cheaper compared to SSO or SScO, but has more content overal (even more mic positions). I don't buy the argument "because it's cheaper to not have to have the kontakt libraries signed so it works with the kontakt player too".. sure it might help a bit.. but on the big whole, it's just a financial pocket money investment, considering the sale returns.
> So, what is the catch? less quality per instrument? less quality player? special deal with BBC?
> 
> geniune question..


Less dynamic layers is my understanding. They may have gotten a bit of a deal collaborating with the BBC also.


----------



## mralmostpopular

RogiervG said:


> What i don't get is, why is BBCSO so much cheaper compared to SSO or SScO, but has more content overal (even more mic positions). I don't buy the argument "because it's cheaper to not have to have the kontakt libraries signed so it works with the kontakt player too".. sure it might help a bit.. but on the big whole, it's just a financial pocket money investment, considering the sale returns.
> So, what is the catch? less quality per instrument? less quality player? special deal with BBC?
> 
> geniune question..



We’re all going to be guessing, but I think partnering with the BBC helped keep the cost a bit lower. It seems as if they recorded less dynamic layers, as well. They have a different sound from each other, and have somewhat different target audiences.


----------



## Daniel James

RogiervG said:


> less quality per instrument? less quality player? special deal with BBC?


Yes.


----------



## staypuft

ism said:


> Clearly, this library isn’t for you. I think we can all respect that,
> 
> However, you seem to have joined this thread - and perhaps even this forum - explicitly to attack a single library/developer, and your sweeping accusations of ‘fanboyism’ are being read as attacks on those of us who do work in (or aspire to work in) the kinds of artistic spaces that this library does open up.
> 
> You don’t need to share that artistic vision. Or understand it, or care about it. But your only reason to be on this thread/form seems to be to antagonize libraries and composers who do aspire to this space.



That is NOT how things went. To be honest, I was warned about a certain group of individuals and advised to let it go, so that´s what I´m going to do. Any reasonable person can read my posts and the replies I got. None of this came out of nowhere. My gripe was with Spitfire and the BBCSO plugin. It was ok to insult me for an entire month, until yesterday when I came to the realization that some of you are overprotective and obsessed about all things Spitfire, thus the fanboy observation. I get it now, not worth it...over and out.


----------



## sherief83

staypuft said:


> I believe the Strezov brass bundle is on sale right now...Rogue trumpet is one of my most treasured secrets! :D



Hush it!..don't tell them about that! thats the biggest secret ever you know...let them spend thousands of dollars so we can enjoy our $25 secret...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

staypuft said:


> Thanks Mike! I wasn´t expecting such a thoughtful comment, really appreciate that. I´m glad the mockup resonated with you. I believe the Strezov brass bundle is on sale right now...Rogue trumpet is one of my most treasured secrets! :D
> 
> BBCSO is much more restrained in comparison BUT it has a very peculiar ´´readiness`` to it. Most instruments would earn their place in my template if not for the subpar half-baked software. I made this mockup as an exercise before I uninstalled it...headaches aside, I hope you can hear the ´´readiness`` I was talking about.
> 
> All bbc minus percussion, the hits sound like a wet cardbox so thanks a lot but nope LOL I wanted to use the anvil as well but I think they sampled an agogo instead...Wtf?! The untuned stuff is the weakest part of the library along with the brass section.
> 
> Shorts are a NIGHTMARE to work with, very inconsistent timing. Spitfire needs to sift through the samples and do a lot of fixing. Love the sound, can´t stand the inconsistencies.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving for you and the ones you love!
> ps. great Bruce Lee quote



Maybe you're the self-sabotaging type? I dunno. Your demo sounds pretty darn good to me, even the shorts and brass.


----------



## PerryD

al_net77 said:


> I have a similar configuration (W10 64GB, SO 4.5.5, BBCSO 1.0.7) but no hangs at closing.
> My experience is that SO hangs on close for drivers (MOTU) and Sonarworks...


 I am using a Presonus Quantum thunderbolt interface. I wonder if I should report it to Presonus?


----------



## dcoscina

A short little something I cobbled together this afternoon. Just received it yesterday. 



-Disclaimer- This is a review copy sent to me as I will be penning a full review of it for Film Score Monthly Online. 

Initial thoughts- love the sound. I appreciate that everything blends nicely. It's also nice working in a single library rather than futzing around trying to make various developer products work together as one. I am glad that it's not an over hyped sounding orchestra library. It sounds like a real orchestra and not a film score recorded orchestra. Yeah, it's good to have those but we have plenty of them so I will take the more subtle sonorities of BBC. Plus, I think the brass can get pretty loud.


----------



## John R Wilson

staypuft said:


> Thanks Mike! I wasn´t expecting such a thoughtful comment, really appreciate that. I´m glad the mockup resonated with you. I believe the Strezov brass bundle is on sale right now...Rogue trumpet is one of my most treasured secrets! :D
> 
> BBCSO is much more restrained in comparison BUT it has a very peculiar ´´readiness`` to it. Most instruments would earn their place in my template if not for the subpar half-baked software. I made this mockup as an exercise before I uninstalled it...headaches aside, I hope you can hear the ´´readiness`` I was talking about.
> 
> All bbc minus percussion, the hits sound like a wet cardbox so thanks a lot but nope LOL I wanted to use the anvil as well but I think they sampled an agogo instead...Wtf?! The untuned stuff is the weakest part of the library along with the brass section.
> 
> Shorts are a NIGHTMARE to work with, very inconsistent timing. Spitfire needs to sift through the samples and do a lot of fixing. Love the sound, can´t stand the inconsistencies.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving for you and the ones you love!
> ps. great Bruce Lee quote



I have similar feeling towards the BBCSO. It does have a great sound and cohesiveness/readiness to it and everything blends together well. However, I am also finding that their is issues with the releases in the legatos and as you say their does appear to be inconsistent timing when working with shorts. It would really help if their was more control over adsr.


----------



## redlester

gtrwll said:


> 1.0.7 was a major improvement on loading times here, cut it around 40% shorter. Now I don't even have time to brew my morning coffee while waiting for the template to load.



Indeed, on my puny 16GB i7 it feels like it now opens projects and loads all the samples faster than a project with an equivalent amount of Kontakt instances (either individual tracks or multitimbral).


----------



## John R Wilson

staypuft said:


> Thanks Mike! I wasn´t expecting such a thoughtful comment, really appreciate that. I´m glad the mockup resonated with you. I believe the Strezov brass bundle is on sale right now...Rogue trumpet is one of my most treasured secrets! :D
> 
> BBCSO is much more restrained in comparison BUT it has a very peculiar ´´readiness`` to it. Most instruments would earn their place in my template if not for the subpar half-baked software. I made this mockup as an exercise before I uninstalled it...headaches aside, I hope you can hear the ´´readiness`` I was talking about.
> 
> All bbc minus percussion, the hits sound like a wet cardbox so thanks a lot but nope LOL I wanted to use the anvil as well but I think they sampled an agogo instead...Wtf?! The untuned stuff is the weakest part of the library along with the brass section.
> 
> Shorts are a NIGHTMARE to work with, very inconsistent timing. Spitfire needs to sift through the samples and do a lot of fixing. Love the sound, can´t stand the inconsistencies.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving for you and the ones you love!
> ps. great Bruce Lee quote




Also the ROGUE Fanfare Trumpet sounds brilliant in the demos and only €25.00!! I think i'm going to have to get it. However, I'm now tempted by the brass bundle


----------



## gussunkri

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Hello everybody! Here's something I just finished working on. It features strings and a bit of percussions



Very nice! It is always great to hear your compositions.


----------



## staypuft

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Also the ROGUE Fanfare Trumpet sounds brilliant in the demos and only €25.00!! I think i'm going to have to get it. However, I'm now tempted by the brass bundle



It´s a steal! I´d love an Afflatus-like brass library...Abrassus? lol @Strezov throw us a bone here...


----------



## John R Wilson

staypuft said:


> It´s a steal! I´d love an Afflatus-like brass library...Abrassus? lol @Strezov throw us a bone here...



It really is!! I've just got it, cant go wrong at €25.00. What libraries do you use from strezov sampling and whats your go to libraries?


----------



## staypuft

LowweeK said:


> Both of your music cues are nice.
> It’s a shame you’ve got such a gripe against Spitfire / BBCSO.
> Did you try the last update before uninstalling ?
> Will you give another chance to BBCSO later ?...


Thanks. It´s up to Spitfire so I don´t think I will. Look how long HZS´ been out and what was added except for the articulation system. Nothing else? One of the best features of Kontakt is to be able to edit samples and save a new version...I don´t depend on devs to fix stuff. Quick and painless.

The BBCSO demo you heard is the result of me resampling hundreds of shorts RR and aligning them manually...out of the box is unusable for the action//thriller type of score I´m hired for. I was sold on the idea of having a single entity as my workhorse and concluded that I can´t work fast enough with BBCSO. There´s only a handful of guys these days who have the budget to hire a full ens on every project and I´m not one of them...can´t get cues approved unless mockups are polished to a high degree of precision.


----------



## Farkle

staypuft said:


> Thanks. It´s up to Spitfire so I don´t think I will. Look how long HZS´ been out and what was added except for the articulation system. Nothing else? One of the best features of Kontakt is to be able to edit samples and save a new version...I don´t depend on devs to fix stuff. Quick and painless.
> 
> The BBCSO demo you heard is the result of me resampling hundreds of shorts RR and aligning them manually...out of the box is unusable for the action//thriller type of score I´m hired for. I was sold on the idea of having a single entity as my workhorse and concluded that I can´t work fast enough with BBCSO. There´s only a handful of guys these days who have the budget to hire a full ens on every project and I´m not one of them...can´t get cues approved unless mockups are polished to a high degree of precision.




I hear you, man. I do the same thing. I have pulled all of my samples out of the factory .nki's and edited them, both new (Cinesamples, Berlin WW) and old (Sonic Implants, Dan Dean). Just much easier to edit the samples and create a new instrument, that plays the way I want it to.

Another reason I'm loath to buy new libs. I know (almost for a fact) that I'm going to have to pull the samples out and muck with them... and unless the *sound* of the lib wows me, I'm not willing to put that time in to rebuild instruments.

Mike


----------



## dcoscina

I copied the SSD info I received from SFA and put it on my own Samsung EVO which then went into my TB3 external SSD chasis. Very fast load times. Work flow is super great. It's almost spoiling me to use Christian's template. I just arm the track I want and then I record. No searching for sounds from my various sample libraries.


----------



## brenneisen

staypuft said:


> The BBCSO demo you heard is the result of me resampling hundreds of shorts RR and aligning them manually...out of the box is unusable [...]



it's because you're hating, if you were an SF lover the universe would align all those shorts for you.....

stop hating!!1


----------



## dzilizzi

staypuft said:


> Thanks. It´s up to Spitfire so I don´t think I will. Look how long HZS´ been out and what was added except for the articulation system. Nothing else? One of the best features of Kontakt is to be able to edit samples and save a new version...I don´t depend on devs to fix stuff. Quick and painless.
> 
> The BBCSO demo you heard is the result of me resampling hundreds of shorts RR and aligning them manually...out of the box is unusable for the action//thriller type of score I´m hired for. I was sold on the idea of having a single entity as my workhorse and concluded that I can´t work fast enough with BBCSO. There´s only a handful of guys these days who have the budget to hire a full ens on every project and I´m not one of them...can´t get cues approved unless mockups are polished to a high degree of precision.


I think this kind of complaining is useful to hear. And I can understand that this library won't work well for you. It is too bad we can't resell libraries we won't use. I actually haven't bought BBCSO yet, partially because I was concerned about the new player and partially because, as a hobbyist, I am cheap. I don't mind waiting for a wishlist sale in another year. 

Hopefully they will add an ADSR to the player in the future. I think they are concentrating on getting it to work for those for whom it still isn't working correctly. I'm interested to see how OT's new player works out on all these Windows computers. I'm expecting some issues.


----------



## Zedcars

staypuft said:


> I believe the Strezov brass bundle is on sale right now...Rogue trumpet is one of my most treasured secrets! :D



How does it handle softer lines? Would a realistic p or pp not be possible? I was interested in buying it but noticed it said this on their site:



> faux dynamics (lo-pass plus mod wheel filter) allow you to give the illusions of dynamics within the context of a musical piece.




But I guess for that the price it’s still amazing value.


----------



## ridgero

Found that on youtube 



So cool


----------



## Zedcars

ridgero said:


> Found that on youtube
> 
> 
> 
> So cool





I love Tim Shoebridge - he does some amazing YT videos.
I love the Moog Matriarch.
I love the BBCSO library.
I’m just not sure he’s programmed the library in the best way. Did he split the parts up and use the legato patches? Sounds like just block chords played in on a non-legato patch. Also doesn’t sound like much CC data has been used. I could be wrong though (only listening on iPhone!).


----------



## al_net77

PerryD said:


> I am using a Presonus Quantum thunderbolt interface. I wonder if I should report it to Presonus?



I would. Be sure to attach the dump file (in AppData\Local\CrashDumps)


----------



## Paul T McGraw

@staypuft your BBCSO track is marvelous. It sounded extremely realistic. The mix was clear and cohesive. I am confused as to why you find it unacceptable.


----------



## AndyP

staypuft said:


> In any case, you are missing the point which is BBCSO can´t do any of this stuff unless we have control over attacks and releases. Even some basic ADSR per articulation would help to shape individual notes...


I miss that painfully in BBCSO too.


----------



## mikeh-375

Having played the Debussy Suite Bergamasque myself on piano, I found the sound unconvincing in the demo a few pages back. There where issues of clarity in some of the lines for me and the balance was off a lot of the time - hopelessly so in places to the extent that the music was jarring and to its detriment. I don't know if this is a problem of limitations for BBCSO in terms of florid work and fluid dynamic levels or just poor programming for the demo (well the mixing/balancing should have been a lot better at least imv). Anybody got any answers to that as I'm asking for my own information and not causing trouble folks...


----------



## John R Wilson

AndyP said:


> I miss that painfully in BBCSO too.



Same!


----------



## paulthomson

Just so I understand - what situation would you use ADSR for? beyond the shaping that you can do for example with Expression and the Dynamics control?

Not sure I understand the Debussy ref above either - something about mixing and balancing..?


----------



## cola2410

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Same!



Having their own player developed in-house it doesn't sound like a big customization to the engine. Maybe send a petition to SF?


----------



## mikeh-375

paulthomson said:


> Just so I understand - what situation would you use ADSR for? beyond the shaping that you can do for example with Expression and the Dynamics control?
> 
> Not sure I understand the Debussy ref above either - something about mixing and balancing..?



Listening to the Menuet, the lines are unclear and the dynamics are too far apart and that's in the first minute or so - at least that is how it sounds to my ears. I am genuinely interested in whether or not this is simply music that's too much for the product or if it could have been programmed and balanced better (I'm pretty certain it can be btw). I'm still on the fence about BBCSO and am willing to be swayed but hearing work like the Debussy arrangement is not going do it for me, hence asking the guys who have it. And I'd be very interested to also hear from the guys who can score to a high standard and are using it in particularly complicated arrangements or compositions.


----------



## Loïc D

staypuft said:


> The BBCSO demo you heard is the result of me resampling hundreds of shorts RR and aligning them manually...




I wish I had this patience and skill.
As a hobbyist, I cannot think spending so much (unproductive) time.

My approach is to get the best from what I already have and not jump on the train every a fancy product shows up. 
I think I’ll have to invest more time in Kontakt to know how to fix stuff myself (SStB, 8dio, etc.)


----------



## Paul Cardon

paulthomson said:


> Just so I understand - what situation would you use ADSR for? beyond the shaping that you can do for example with Expression and the Dynamics control?
> 
> Not sure I understand the Debussy ref above either - something about mixing and balancing..?


It might be worth talking to some more advanced users about the ways that they would like to tweak patches and seeing how those can become a part of the intentional programming of the Spitfire player. I.e. in your Kontakt releases on non-legato patches, I love the ability to jump behind the wrench and play with things as simple as the attack speed on longs or what have you to turn it into an easily playable pad patch.

Being really intentional and simple with the presentation and usage of libraries in the new player is great for the largest subset of users, but kind of robs the advanced users of previously accessible tweakability, stuff that we sometimes rely on.

Here's the thing: I get that you guys are trying to do more complex things nowadays, and control over the programming is a key part of that. I don't think most people understand how complicated the programming in just legato patches is becoming nowadays. Like the way that releases scale and legatos adapt based on the speed of playing, or even the timed release tails on marcato and tenuto articulations and all that fun stuff isn't compatible with blunt ADSR controls. Global ADSR controls can cause that stuff to break down REALLY quickly. Heck, you can create those issues in lots of Kontakt instruments that let you get behind the wrench by nudging a few things around. Turns things into a mess because it fights the intentional programming. (This isn't exclusive to Spitfire libs. The more advanced programming gets, the less we can just "tweak" fundamental things without breaking everything)

I guess what some people are asking here more than anything is an ability to "scale" some of this programming in a proper way. Manual legato speed (I really miss this one from previous Spitfire libs), release tail volume, attack speed on appropriate articulations, etc.

Then there's the big issue of tweaking the start time on individual samples. Jumping behind the wrench to change a sample start point wasn't too much fuss. Heck, the COG system in your Kontakt player, though a bit funky to use, was at least a nice option.

Obviously you can't let us dig into the nitty-gritty/debug layers of the engine without exposing a mess of custom backend (Kontakt has spent years and years and years developing their editor to be at least semi-usable by laypersons), but more tweaks on the front would be lovely lovely lovely.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Paul Cardon said:


> It might be worth talking to some more advanced users about the ways that they would like to tweak patches and seeing how those can become a part of the intentional programming of the Spitfire player. I.e. in your Kontakt releases on non-legato patches, I love the ability to jump behind the wrench and play with things as simple as the attack speed on longs or what have you to turn it into an easily playable pad patch.
> 
> Being really intentional and simple with the presentation and usage of libraries in the new player is great for the largest subset of users, but kind of robs the advanced users of previously accessible tweakability, stuff that we sometimes rely on.
> 
> Here's the thing: I get that you guys are trying to do more complex things nowadays, and control over the programming is a key part of that. I don't think most people understand how complicated the programming in just legato patches is becoming nowadays. Like the way that releases scale and legatos adapt based on the speed of playing, or even the timed release tails on marcato and tenuto articulations and all that fun stuff isn't compatible with blunt ADSR controls. Global ADSR controls can cause that stuff to break down REALLY quickly. Heck, you can create those issues in lots of Kontakt instruments that let you get behind the wrench by nudging a few things around. Turns things into a mess because it fights the intentional programming. (This isn't exclusive to Spitfire libs. The more advanced programming gets, the less we can just "tweak" fundamental things without breaking everything)
> 
> I guess what some people are asking here more than anything is an ability to "scale" some of this programming in a proper way. Manual legato speed (I really miss this one from previous Spitfire libs), release tail volume, attack speed on appropriate articulations, etc.
> 
> Then there's the big issue of tweaking the start time on individual samples. Jumping behind the wrench to change a sample start point wasn't too much fuss. Heck, the COG system in your Kontakt player, though a bit funky to use, was at least a nice option.
> 
> Obviously you can't let us dig into the nitty-gritty/debug layers of the engine without exposing a mess of custom backend (Kontakt has spent years and years and years developing their editor to be at least semi-usable by laypersons), but more tweaks on the front would be lovely lovely lovely.



I’m a layperson. I realize a lot of users feel the need to get under the hood, but I’m one who likes it just load a patch and get sh$t done. This is why I totally gel with stuff like the SF Player and EW Play, but that’s just me. I say leave it as-is.


----------



## Paul Cardon

Wolfie2112 said:


> I’m a layperson. I realize a lot of users feel the need to get under the hood, but I’m one who likes it just load a patch and get sh$t done. This is why I totally gel with stuff like the SF Player and EW Play, but that’s just me. I say leave it as-is.


If they are able to find a way to expose and program functionality in addition to the current default ease of use, why not? It's not a matter of having your cake and eating it too.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Paul Cardon said:


> If they are able to find a way to expose and program functionality in addition to the current default ease of use, why not? It's not a matter of having your cake and eating it too.



Absolutely, but I don't think it's a necessity for what BBCSO has already.


----------



## Paul Cardon

Wolfie2112 said:


> Absolutely, but I don't think it's a necessity for what BBCSO has already.


Possibly! Extra money and dev time too, but obviously it'd be great moving forward as they mature their player.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Anything that will reduce the moaning, I am in favor of


----------



## seanneyb

redlester said:


> Indeed, on my puny 16GB i7 it feels like it now opens projects and loads all the samples faster than a project with an equivalent amount of Kontakt instances (either individual tracks or multitimbral).



I kind of suspect I might know the answer to this, but I'm wondering if anyone can advise if they think my 2015 13" i5 MacBook Pro with 16 gigs of RAM might be able to provide a decent experience handling this library? It looks like some of you have absolutely MONSTER setups.

I just found out I'm qualified for the educational discount, and that combined with the current sale makes it really affordable - but I'm worried my computer won't be powerful enough.


----------



## paulthomson

Thanks for that Paul - I get what you’re saying. You’re absolutely right in that the legato patches are crazy complex under the hood. There’s a ton of stuff going on. It would be very easy to break.
However - a lot of the things you mentioned are in progress on various forms.

I don’t want to go into specifics for obvious reasons 😂

contrary to some people’s belief (!) we stress test every new thing we do quite comprehensively.

while the player may look user friendly - very deliberately - it’s very very complex under the hood, there’s a ton of very clever tech in there that’s been in development for coming up to 5 years.

lots of exciting plans in progress.

please keep the suggestions and wishes coming. We obviously have our roadmap but it’s great to be able to incorporate great ideas that we might not have thought of.

thanks!

Paul


----------



## node01

Anyone experiencing the Error #3 message when trying to open the BCCSO plugin on a Windows 10?


----------



## Vik

Wolfie2112 said:


> I’m a layperson. I realize a lot of users feel the need to get under the hood, but I’m one who likes it just load a patch and get sh$t done. This is why I totally gel with stuff like the SF Player and EW Play, but that’s just me. I say leave it as-is.


Hi – I'm also a lay person, but 'leave it as-is' doesn't need to be in conflict with adding an option to, in simple ways, tweak some important parameters. With the extreme amount of hours needed to build a library like BBCSO, it would be too bad if some users avoid it due to needing a slightly faster legato portamento transition than the factory presets offer, or a way to reduce the volume of these transitions. I haven't used BBCSO, so this isn't specifically about this library – it's just a general wish about being able to adjust some parameters to ones own taste, or to make a few bars in a mockup work better than they would without tweaking some details. Owning both the samples and the sample player, along with having the resources companies like SF obviously have probably increases the chance that we'll see great libraries in the future and improvements of these which already exist a lot.


----------



## ridgero

paulthomson said:


> please keep the suggestions and wishes coming. We obviously have our roadmap but it’s great to be able to incorporate great ideas that we might not have thought of.
> 
> thanks!
> 
> Paul



I have one suggestion:

An option to change the default velocity curve from „linear“ to „exponential positive“ or whatever you like. It should stay as a default curve on every instance!

I‘m really having trouble to trigger the highest velocity with the short notes / percussions. The noise of my keyboard is getting louder than the samples before reaching 127.

Am I the only one who has problems with that? My fingers get tired or hurt.


----------



## dzilizzi

node01 said:


> Anyone experiencing the Error #3 message when trying to open the BCCSO plugin on a Windows 10?


Do you have the most recent version of the plugin?

You may need to contact Spitfire Support.


----------



## AndyP

ridgero said:


> I have one suggestion:
> 
> An option to change the default velocity curve from „linear“ to „exponential positive“ or whatever you like. It should stay as a default curve on every instance!
> 
> I‘m really having trouble to trigger the highest velocity with the short notes / percussions. The noise of my keyboard is getting louder than the samples before reaching 127.
> 
> Am I the only one who has problems with that? My fingers get tired or hurt.


Nope. Same here.
Setting the curve to exponential has the negative effect that you have much less control over the dynamic.

But otherwise the e.g. short brass sounds are hardly playable.

I would also like to be able to adjust the sample start and at least change the attack and release phase. The possibilities to control this are definitely not there and that's not enough for me. It doesn't help me much if megascripts work under the hood, which are apparently the reason not to have these features built in. Smooth legato control ... nope.

Even Play gives me more control, and that's pretty much how I always get the results I want.

Even if it's a core, beginner library that has an admittedly great sound, the playability doesn't come close to VSL level. One reason why I continue to use VSL as my start and main library.


----------



## John R Wilson

AndyP said:


> Nope. Same here.
> Setting the curve to exponential has the negative effect that you have much less control over the dynamic.
> 
> But otherwise the e.g. short brass sounds are hardly playable.
> 
> I would also like to be able to adjust the sample start and at least change the attack and release phase. The possibilities to control this are definitely not there and that's not enough for me. It doesn't help me much if megascripts work under the hood, which are apparently the reason not to have these features built in. Smooth legato control ... nope.
> 
> Even Play gives me more control, and that's pretty much how I always get the results I want.
> 
> Even if it's a core, beginner library that has an admittedly great sound, the playability doesn't come close to VSL level. One reason why I continue to use VSL as my start and main library.



I agree, it would be very beneficial if they did provide some more control. It can still have an easy and accessible user interface with some more options available if needed. The sound is their but it's just a shame that their is not more control such as control over attacks and release times. Hopefully these are things that spitfire will start to include in the near future.


----------



## node01

dzilizzi said:


> Do you have the most recent version of the plugin?
> 
> You may need to contact Spitfire Support.



Yes, I currently have the ver 1.0.7


----------



## mralmostpopular

So, I finally had some time to sit down and compose a bit with BBCSO. I have to say that I’m pretty happy with the library. It has issues, for sure. The brass shorts are a little soft. I’ve been able to work much faster since I don’t have to spend a lot of time tweaking. I can just play it in, and everything works together. I‘m finding that mixes well with other libraries, so I’m able to cover pretty much everything I want to.


----------



## dzilizzi

node01 said:


> Yes, I currently have the ver 1.0.7


Looking at others who reported the same problem, they either had to redownload or have Spitfire support troubleshoot it. I'd probably go with the Spitfire Support first. Redownloading seemed to only help some of the time.


----------



## sunetti

seanneyb said:


> I just found out I'm qualified for the educational discount, and that combined with the current sale makes it really affordable



I noticed that too last night. Although now the educational discount isn't there anymore (and when I manually add the code in it says "discount not applied because it is inactive"). I wonder if the combined discount was genuine or just a mistake on their end?


----------



## jbuhler

sunetti said:


> I noticed that too last night. Although now the educational discount isn't there anymore (and when I manually add the code in it says "discount not applied because it is inactive"). I wonder if the combined discount was genuine or just a mistake on their end?


Ordinarily they don't stack (and the EDU pricing doesn't apply to the bundle price), but you do usually get the better of the current price on any individual item and the educational discount (30%).


----------



## sunetti

jbuhler said:


> Ordinarily they don't stack (and the EDU pricing doesn't apply to the bundle price), but you do usually get the better of the current price on any individual item and the educational discount (30%).



Yeah that seems more correct. I currently just have the BF discount active (25%) so hopefully I can ask and at least get BBCSO for the edu discount along with Aperture Strings.


----------



## mralmostpopular

seanneyb said:


> I kind of suspect I might know the answer to this, but I'm wondering if anyone can advise if they think my 2015 13" i5 MacBook Pro with 16 gigs of RAM might be able to provide a decent experience handling this library? It looks like some of you have absolutely MONSTER setups.
> 
> I just found out I'm qualified for the educational discount, and that combined with the current sale makes it really affordable - but I'm worried my computer won't be powerful enough.



You may end up struggling a bit with that set-up. The 16GB is fine if you’re working with a scaled back template, but your processor is below the minimum specs that Spitfire recommends.


----------



## Zedcars

To be fair to SA, I think they are the very antithesis of lazy and obstinate. They are very open and welcome legitimate critique of their products as long as it’s respectfully done. It’s clear they are listening. They are still updating older libraries, and I believe they actually do care about user experience beyond the transaction.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Zedcars said:


> To be fair to SA, I think they are the very antithesis of lazy and obstinate. They are very open and welcome legitimate critique of their products as long as it’s respectfully done. It’s clear they are listening. They are still updating older libraries, and I believe they actually do care about user experience beyond the transaction.



I have to disagree slightly with you here and I'll give you a reason for it. Not flame, just pointing it out.

HZ Strings was released on April 2018. This was the first big library to use the new SA player. This player became the building blocks for BBCSO which uses the same player. So from the original release of HZ Strings all the issues that we were having with BBCSO persisted all this time from HZ Strings and no one on the Dev team noticed or fixed this for 1 year?


In other words, a lot of the complaints and issues could have been avoided for BBCSO, because CPU, memory issues were pointed out when HZ Strings got released.


----------



## staypuft

Anyway...since Spitfire is open to suggestions, I have 5 simple suggestions//requests that will radically improve the end-user experience and make the life of the working composer a lot easier:








Thank you.


----------



## paulthomson

staypuft said:


> You should moderate equally and not abuse your moderator privileges. A few examples of the way you treated me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don´t care if you don´t like me but anyone should be allowed to post. Anyone. A moderator must remain impartial and judge people on their forum behavior. My opinion may be unpopular but I never disrespected anyone here and always kept on topic. At the same time I was being repeatedly insulted and you did absolutely nothing about it. Instead you joined the mob to stir things up. Your role as moderator is to set and control the tone of the forum and lead by good examples.
> 
> And also this:
> 
> 
> 
> Weeks prior to release, after a lot of pressure, Christian stated in one of his videos that they didn´t have a Windows//Cubase rig to test BBCSO and compare to his Logic template. It doesn´t take a genius to realize that Spitfire wasn´t prepared for what was coming and it clearly showed during the release fiasco. Breaking issues that prevented Windows customers from using a 1000$ product for weeks*. At least they are sorting people out and we have the owner openly accepting critiques and suggestions. *No thanks to you or the angry mob who promptly attacked anyone who had any negative perception about BBCSO and the merlin engine.



Actually that’s completely incorrect. We have multiple rigs with many configurations. Christian is not bedded into the CX team and made an assumption - mainly based on his experience with the composer team mainly using logic - that we should be looking to the outside for help in constructing the perfect Cubase template. This was certainly a good idea, as we have far more Logic ninjas in the team.
But to extend that to assert as you have done several times that we don’t test on PC is not only incorrect but also provocative and insulting. Do you think we are idiots?
Again - for the sake of balance - very few PC users had issues - we immediately worked round the clock to fix them. This has happily translated to improvements for all - and I’m grateful to those affected who helped us by trying out interim builds while we isolated the specific issues that were causing problems in some machines.

It would be great if you - like I do - could extend the courtesy of respectful discourse to include not only the members of the forum, but also the developers here - we too are human beings and members of the forum just like you.

By the way, I really liked the two pieces you posted up. I’m still interested to read your feedback.
All best,


Paul


----------



## sunetti

sunetti said:


> I noticed that too last night. Although now the educational discount isn't there anymore (and when I manually add the code in it says "discount not applied because it is inactive"). I wonder if the combined discount was genuine or just a mistake on their end?



Just spoke to a lovely fella at customer support and he confirmed that it was a glitch on their end.

I guess some were brave enough to push the purchase button and buy BBCSO for $524 last night. I chickened out and waited 'till the next day. Eh, that's what I get for not being impulsive enough!


----------



## staypuft

paulthomson said:


> Actually that’s completely incorrect. We have multiple rigs with many configurations. Christian is not bedded into the CX team and made an assumption - mainly based on his experience with the composer team mainly using logic - that we should be looking to the outside for help in constructing the perfect Cubase template. This was certainly a good idea, as we have far more Logic ninjas in the team.
> But to extend that to assert as you have done several times that we don’t test on PC is not only incorrect but also provocative and insulting. Do you think we are idiots?
> Again - for the sake of balance - very few PC users had issues - we immediately worked round the clock to fix them. This has happily translated to improvements for all - and I’m grateful to those affected who helped us by trying out interim builds while we isolated the specific issues that were causing problems in some machines.
> 
> It would be great if you - like I do - could extend the courtesy of respectful discourse to include not only the members of the forum, but also the developers here - we too are human beings and members of the forum just like you.
> 
> By the way, I really liked the two pieces you posted up. I’m still interested to read your feedback.
> All best,
> 
> 
> Paul



Paul, I know that you are very passionate about your work and will defend it at all costs //you should!

I don´t want to have the last word and honestly I don´t even know what I´m still doing here. Whatever point I had to make about Windows, Cubase, HZS, the real number of people having issues, improvements etc I already made and we´ll have to agree to disagree.

I don´t think you are idiots, quite the contrary, your success as a company speaks volumes about your character, vision and hard work. As an old peer, I totally respect that.

It would be also great if you could extend this sentiment of respect to whoever pre-ordered under the knowledge that BBCSO wouldn't be discounted in the foreseeable future. The FAQ stated that BBC Symphony Orchestra will not be included in our upcoming Black Friday and Christmas sales. Many of us pre-ordered after the keynote and Hurricane Blaney. Next, the policy was changed and impacted users weren´t notified. Christian even said that the reason for releasing v1.0 with a promo is with the understanding that early adopters are rewarded with a substantial discount in order to mitigate against any v1.0 bugs. And now not only you are including BBCSO in your Black Friday and Christmas sales but you are also rewarding new costumers with a better deal //Aperture Strings. What was even the point of pre-ordering and being used as guinea pigs?

This sort of thing starts to wear on you after a while, you know...

I´m blessed to have the means to buy any library I need and turn a blind eye when something is wrong. I was really sold on the whole one orchestra idea, a single entity where we could share sessions, exchange knowledge...that´s really cool. I was one of your greatest supporters but all that joy was gradually sucked out of my heart and replaced with disappointment.

As for feedback, please
see my previous post https://vi-control.net/community/threads/spitfire-audio-“this-is-london-calling”-bbc-symphony-orchestra.84345/post-4470852
and have a look at Sine, Orchestral Tools is doing a lot of things right https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/get-sine


----------



## Denkii

I have to say I enjoy that the gentlemen handled getting out of what started as a heated personal discussion rather well. I've seen worse and I do appreciate that we can actually have these kinds of conversations here.
I mean that.

We had more destructive criticism going on close after the launch of BBCSO but as of now I feel it turned into more constructive criticism, even from people who openly state they don't like the library/player. At least generally speaking.

And I also believe @staypuft 's argument is valid about imagine being someone who dropped a lot of money on the thing and ends up being disappointed. Of course this criticism will be more cynical at the beginning and it is up to Spitfire to try and please these opinions (or not).

I also don't believe that DJ is having his stance only to be provocative. We know he is someone who doesn't mince words and in his defense he also stated what he liked about the library. I personally enjoy that there are not only people pleasers allowed here 

On the other hand: releasing multiple updates within 2 months on Spitfire's side is actually pretty good and if Paul is to be believed, they will continue optimizing the player (and hopefully some janky samples) which needs credit as well.
I wish my company's IT was able to work as agile.
And Paul is still telling people to give their feedback. If Spitfire wouldn't act upon that in the future, Paul would damage his credibility pretty hard and I don't believe that's his intention, only to act like they are still working on it to shush the critics.


----------



## Uiroo

staypuft said:


> It would be also great if you could extend this sentiment of respect to whoever pre-ordered under the knowledge that BBCSO wouldn't be discounted in the foreseeable future. The FAQ stated that BBC Symphony Orchestra will not be included in our upcoming Black Friday and Christmas sales. Many of us pre-ordered after the keynote and Hurricane Blaney. Next, the policy was changed and impacted users weren´t notified. Christian even said that the reason for releasing v1.0 with a promo is with the understanding that early adopters are rewarded with a substantial discount in order to mitigate against any v1.0 bugs. And now not only you are including BBCSO in your Black Friday and Christmas sales but you are also rewarding new costumers with a better deal //Aperture Strings. What was even the point of pre-ordering and being used as guinea pigs?



I'd like to hear a statement from Spitfire about this, because that's something that was on my mind, too. If that was actually true, that would be quite a disappointment to put it lightly.


----------



## Fleer

I do appreciate the tone of staypuft’s last post and understand his disappointment with regard to his pre-order, particularly as a Windows user.


----------



## John R Wilson

Uiroo said:


> I'd like to hear a statement from Spitfire about this, because that's something that was on my mind, too. If that was actually true, that would be quite a disappointment to put it lightly.



I feel the same, but spitfire hasnt mentioned anything about this. I did also email them about the aperture strings and they just stated that it would only be available for individuals who spend over 300 pounds, they then just closed my case. It's quite evident that it has upset a lot of people and I agree with @staypuft on this point.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

staypuft said:


> It would be also great if you could extend this sentiment of respect to whoever pre-ordered under the knowledge that BBCSO wouldn't be discounted in the foreseeable future. The FAQ stated that BBC Symphony Orchestra will not be included in our upcoming Black Friday and Christmas sales.



Huh? I recall SF posting that it WOULD be available again, for the intro pricing, on BF.


----------



## Denkii

Wolfie2112 said:


> Huh? I recall SF posting that it WOULD be available again, for the intro pricing, on BF.


They changed it. First it said it wouldn't, then they said it would.
That's what was stated on their website at least.


----------



## Zero&One

Wolfie2112 said:


> Huh? I recall SF posting that it WOULD be available again, for the intro pricing, on BF.



I think he's saying, as they initially said it wouldn't go on sale via the official FAQ for 1 week. When they changed this detail a week later, they posted here and didn't contact buyers via email. It was mentioned by him ages ago, that he didn't feel checking in on the mega thread for official announcements was acceptable. He has a point to be fair.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Sorry, I simply don't get the issue at play here.

Early buyers _would indeed_ have cause for complaint if Spitfire had* dropped the price further for Black Friday and Xmas.* But the price remains the same and the library won't be cheaper for a long while yet.

I feel some sympathy with early adopters who ran into difficulty, but that's simply software buying 101. Despite the best efforts of any developer, there are _always_ issues when software is released into the wild. Considering Spitfire have fixed most of the problems.. _inside a month?_ That's as speedy and responsive as software development gets.

TLDR: Price doesn't drop, software issues are fixed. Sun comes up, sun goes down.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Denkii said:


> They changed it. First it said it wouldn't, then they said it would.
> That's what was stated on their website at least.



I must have missed that. I remember seeing the website (from day one) stating it would be available again for the presale price BF. Anyways....


----------



## Alex Fraser

Wolfie2112 said:


> I must have missed that. I remember seeing the website (from day one) stating it would be available again for the presale price BF. Anyways....


That's my memory too. At least I can't be losing my mind just yet. That's a relief.


----------



## Zero&One

Nah it was days later, a week. I even commented in here and spoke with Spitfire support. But as you say it’s no biggie as we had the option to cancel.

I just don’t understand why selling Aperture on its own would have been so hard?
Less drama.
I think people would have paid well up to £100-£150 for it following the demos that are out. How was this missed? Being a LTO it would have been hoovered up!
Just smells of a great idea in a meeting room with pie charts without asking others first. Aka management decisions.

I've never pre ordered before and I'll never do it again.


----------



## AllanH

staypuft said:


> [...]
> 
> It would be also great if you could extend this sentiment of respect to whoever pre-ordered under the knowledge that BBCSO wouldn't be discounted in the foreseeable future. The FAQ stated that BBC Symphony Orchestra will not be included in our upcoming Black Friday and Christmas sales. Many of us pre-ordered after the keynote and Hurricane Blaney. Next, the policy was changed and impacted users weren´t notified. Christian even said that the reason for releasing v1.0 with a promo is with the understanding that early adopters are rewarded with a substantial discount in order to mitigate against any v1.0 bugs. And now not only you are including BBCSO in your Black Friday and Christmas sales but you are also rewarding new costumers with a better deal //Aperture Strings. What was even the point of pre-ordering and being used as guinea pigs?
> ...



I unfortunately agree with this sentiment: I am a now a bit disappointed for pre-ordering and spending all this time helping Spitfire track down the memory issues in the new BBCSO player. First Spitfire changes their stated opinion regarding the BBCSO not being part of upcoming sales, and then they even sweeten the the deal by including additional product with a BF purchase. This seems quite a departure from the corporate persona Spitfire has attempted to build. Anyway ... lesson learned, I guess.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

AllanH said:


> I unfortunately agree with this sentiment: I am a now a bit disappointed for pre-ordering and spending all this time helping Spitfire track down the memory issues in the new BBCSO player. First Spitfire changes their stated opinion regarding the BBCSO not being part of upcoming sales, and then they even sweeten the the deal by including additional product with a BF purchase. This seems quite a departure from the corporate persona Spitfire has attempted to build. Anyway ... lesson learned, I guess.



Yes, that is really my only complaint about pre-ordering BBCSO. There was zero benefit, hence the reason we should get some sort of compensation (for lack of a better term). I am guilty of pressing the buy button for the presale, not even sure why I felt compelled to do so. I'm lucky though, as it works great on my system and I am not disappointed in that regard. Usually, as with any type of product, there's an incentive to a pre-purchase option.


----------



## jbuhler

James H said:


> Nah it was days later, a week. I even commented in here and spoke with Spitfire support. But as you say it’s no biggie as we had the option to cancel.
> 
> I just don’t understand why selling Aperture on its own would have been so hard?
> Less drama.
> I think people would have paid well up to £100-£150 for it following the demos that are out. How was this missed? Being a LTO it would have been hoovered up!
> Just smells of a great idea in a meeting room with pie charts without asking others first. Aka management decisions.
> 
> I've never pre ordered before and I'll never do it again.


Yeah, it seems like it would have made more sense to both offer Aperture for sale (there clearly seems to be a demand) and if SF wanted to incentivize BF purchases, to offer it free for purchases above a certain amount. Or offer it as part of Ton and discount Ton even further to those who make other purchases above a certain amount. 

As for preorders, SF usually discounts between 20-25%. And libraries are usually available for less than preorder price at some point within a year of their release. So if you are looking for best price, ever since they got into doing regular sales, it's always been better to wait.


----------



## Uiroo

Alex Fraser said:


> Early buyers _would indeed_ have cause for complaint if Spitfire had* dropped the price further for Black Friday and Xmas.* But the price remains the same and the library won't be cheaper for a long while yet.


I'd say they still have a good reason to complain because they bought BBCSO without any constumer reviews while they (as it turns out) could've waited for Black Friday when the certain issues were known AND would have gotten Aperture Strings for Free (as a bonus bummer).

And regarding the option to cancel, someone said that was communicated poorly, so that might be part of the frustration caused.

I would have thought that the thought process behind pre-odering is: You get it cheaper than anyone else but you also don't know what you're buying and get to be the guinea pig.

What it became: Thanks for testing the alpha and reporting bugs, the others get Aperture Strings on top.


----------



## mralmostpopular

jbuhler said:


> Yeah, it seems like it would have made more sense to both offer Aperture for sale (there clearly seems to be a demand) and if SF wanted to incentivize BF purchases, to offer it free for purchases above a certain amount. Or offer it as part of Ton and discount Ton even further to those who make other purchases above a certain amount.



I’ll say the same thing I said in another thread. If they offered it as a cheap library and gave it away for free with a certain purchase amount, you’d have a lot less grumbling. People might be annoyed that they should’ve waited, but they would still have an opportunity to get it. Making it an exclusive just needly upsets people who bought one of your top libraries only a few weeks ago.

All that being said, there’s always a better deal. Aperture is neat, but I can live without it. I’m not sure I would’ve purchased it on its own. It’s all good. I’m using BBCSO right now, and probably would be waiting a while longer for the SSD to come had I waited.


----------



## Alex Fraser

But what exactly are the benefits of pre ordering a digital product when customers who order on release day get it for the same price and at the same time?


----------



## mralmostpopular

paulthomson said:


> Again - for the sake of balance - very few PC users had issues - we immediately worked round the clock to fix them. This has happily translated to improvements for all - and I’m grateful to those affected who helped us by trying out interim builds while we isolated the specific issues that were causing problems in some machines.
> 
> It would be great if you - like I do - could extend the courtesy of respectful discourse to include not only the members of the forum, but also the developers here - we too are human beings and members of the forum just like you.



I think this is the thing most people aren’t really appreciating. Features won‘t come overnight. Software development takes time, and a complex system can be hiding behind a simple, clean GUI. 

Fixes started coming in pretty quickly.

Also, 1.07 seems to have made things load a bit faster for me.


----------



## jbuhler

Alex Fraser said:


> But what exactly are the benefits of pre ordering a digital product when customers who order on release day get it for the same price and at the same time?


In this case, there was an advantage in being able to order it on SSD and have that arrive before release day so you could start working with the library immediately. And anyone who had the library clearly had more authority to make comments about it on the Forum. And for those with an EDU discount, it was offered at 40% off during the preorder period. But that was all I could see. So I was quite surprised when I heard reports about the size of the preorder since SF offered a generous time after it was released to buy at the introductory price (and hear reports of other users) and soon after they announced, they also decided to offer it at the introductory price now and again during the Wishlist. So buying on preorder didn't make a lot of sense to me (I still haven't bought it), even though I understand and feel the temptation.


----------



## AEF

i own the library, had doubts about it, and complaints. but i love the library. 

i guess i was a moaner too....oh well.


----------



## jbuhler

mralmostpopular said:


> I think this is the thing most people aren’t really appreciating. Features won‘t come overnight. Software development takes time, and a complex system can be hiding behind a simple, clean GUI.
> 
> Fixes started coming in pretty quickly.
> 
> Also, 1.07 seems to have made things load a bit faster for me.


This is one reason I can't get on the bandwagon for OT's new player yet, even though it does seem to offer a lot. Maybe they'll hit it out of the park on initial release, but the chances of that are not high.


----------



## Zero&One

Alex Fraser said:


> But what exactly are the benefits of pre ordering a digital product when customers who order on release day get it for the same price and at the same time?



I said it to others, they should have sent the pre orders out a week early. Attached with notice "this is a pre release version" so NO forum posts.
Most (sorry some guys) issues were sorted within a week anyway. 
So that would have ironed out the majority of issues, out of public view, AND early adopters got a week bonus usage as a nod for paying early.

Again, so many missed opportunities.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> But what exactly are the benefits of pre ordering a digital product when customers who order on release day get it for the same price and at the same time?


Well the BBCSO libraries were sent out in the order that they were purchased, so there’s the benefit of having it 1-2 days sooner. Also, it’s kind of exciting knowing it will definitely be arriving in the post on or just before the day of release. There’s also the possibility that the money may get sucked into something else, so I guess it’s almost like a commitment that you make because you believe in the company and the product itself.

I think there are a few guys who like to be ahead of the competition with the latest and greatest new releases - so they can ride the coattails of Spitfire and drum up interest in their own composing skills. A few YouTube reviewers also like to get in early.

This release was special because it promised (and I think delivered) ease of mixing with a cohesive sound that makes mock-up creation easier and quicker.

But if none of that is relevant/important to you/one then I guess there isn’t much benefit.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

mralmostpopular said:


> I think this is the thing most people aren’t really appreciating. Features won‘t come overnight. Software development takes time, and a complex system can be hiding behind a simple, clean GUI.
> 
> Fixes started coming in pretty quickly.
> 
> Also, 1.07 seems to have made things load a bit faster for me.



Sure software development does take a lot of time. I think OT's new Sine player took 3 years according to their video.

A clean GUI is nice and all, but SA's player is a lot more form over function currently, where as OT's new player is more function over form if you look at all the tweaks/changes you can make. I for one would always choose function over form.

Having simplicity in the GUI is nice, but if you can't do anything under the hood then it just feels bad. Kontakt being a way older player can do more under the hood, which is what a few people have pointed out.

I'm sure SA's player will get better over time, but we can only judge it in its current form.

I like the GUI of SA's player but there is a lot of wasted space, with a lot of unnecessary options always visible that should be hidden to make way for articulations and mics that are accessed more often.
For example trigger and round robin options. That should be in a button click menu.


----------



## KeyMaestro

Wow... This the first thread I've watched on VI-C and it's really gone through some waves... I'm not sure if the timing is any good, but I'll share this anyway.

I decided to do a mockup for the sake of self-education and to dig into BBCSO - which, so far, I'm really enjoying. There are little things here and there that I wish were in there and some features of the app I'd love to see updated/upgraded/changed, but they're very small things. Also, support has been stellar as far as my experiences have been.

Anyways... comments, questions, feedback - all welcome. Both YouTube and SoundCloud have links in the description to download the Logic file.

Cheers!


----------



## NoamL

I like the 2nd piece you posted @staypuft . Stick around! And hey, maybe re-install BBCSO. They are updating it as fast as they can... I think we should appreciate that they are trawling this giant thread and taking suggestions with good humour.

Probably just got the warm fuzzies because I finally upgraded Mural to SSS and it sounds really good


----------



## NoamL

@KeyMaestro very nice tempo map! That's a key to doing realistic mockups in this style of music


----------



## oks2024

paulthomson said:


> Actually that’s completely incorrect. We have multiple rigs with many configurations. Christian is not bedded into the CX team and made an assumption - mainly based on his experience with the composer team mainly using logic - that we should be looking to the outside for help in constructing the perfect Cubase template. This was certainly a good idea, as we have far more Logic ninjas in the team.
> But to extend that to assert as you have done several times that we don’t test on PC is not only incorrect but also provocative and insulting. Do you think we are idiots?
> Again - for the sake of balance - very few PC users had issues - we immediately worked round the clock to fix them. This has happily translated to improvements for all - and I’m grateful to those affected who helped us by trying out interim builds while we isolated the specific issues that were causing problems in some machines.
> 
> It would be great if you - like I do - could extend the courtesy of respectful discourse to include not only the members of the forum, but also the developers here - we too are human beings and members of the forum just like you.
> 
> By the way, I really liked the two pieces you posted up. I’m still interested to read your feedback.
> All best,
> 
> 
> Paul




I think it can be hard for people to understand what testing really implies and how much work it requires.

I work in the video game industry, and I mainly worked on big open world games. We always have an army of testers, testing the game all day long. But even with 200 testers, sometimes you are going to have bugs happening only once in while, only if you do specific things in a precise (and often unusual) order and timing.
The test team will encounter it maybe two or three times, with limited information, the dev team is going to try to fix it, but you don't have enough information to make sure 100% that it is fixed.

But now when the game is released and you have 10 million people playing it. Let say this bug happens for 1/5000 of the players, it means that 2000 people are going to have the issue.
And that's when people start to insult you, claiming that you do not even test your game, how is it possible to release such a broken game, etc...

The thing is, 2000 is a lot of people, and if 1/10 of them start to complain, even 200 is a lot for a forum/reddit/tweeter. Especially when the other 9 998 000 are too busy playing the game to add their point of view.

Now I am not saying that people should not complain, they bought something that does not work for them, so they need to make sure it's going to be fixed. It's just that often they do not realize there are people behind the game/software and starts to be insulting instead of giving you information on how to improve things.

When you spend multiple months doing overtime, working every week ends to fix bugs, you learn to stay far away from forums/social media/comments on the days following the release.
More people are playing the game, so you are going to receive bug reports, with more information, so you just just focus on fixing the issues one by one, sometimes working with players willing to help you.
And you have a better state of the product this way than reading social media. Because even if the game is globally well received, sold well, etc, reading people saying that everything is broken, and you did not even tried to test it, etc, is not really pleasant, especially when you still need to work on fixing the issue they have.

PC is an other beast. You just can't test all of the configurations. Sure, you can try to have AMD/intel processors, AMD/Nvidia graphics card, but not all of them, there is so many possibilities. And other softwares installed/running at the same time can also be an issue. And drivers, etc.


----------



## Uiroo

oks2024 said:


> I think it can be hard for people to understand what testing really implies and how much work it requires.
> 
> I work in the video game industry, and I mainly worked on big open world games. We always have an army of testers, testing the game all day long. But even with 200 testers, sometimes you are going to have bugs happening only once in while, only if you do specific things in a precise (and often unusual) order and timing.
> The test team will encounter it maybe two or three times, with limited information, the dev team is going to try to fix it, but you don't have enough information to make sure 100% that it is fixed.
> 
> But now when the game is released and you have 10 million people playing it. Let say this bug happens for 1/5000 of the players, it means that 2000 people are going to have the issue.
> And that's when people start to insult you, claiming that you do not even test your game, how is it possible to release such a broken game, etc...
> 
> The thing is, 2000 is a lot of people, and if 1/10 of them start to complain, even 200 is a lot for a forum/reddit/tweeter. Especially when the other 9 998 000 are too busy playing the game to add their point of view.
> 
> Now I am not saying that people should not complain, they bought something that does not work for them, so they need to make sure it's going to be fixed. It's just that often they do not realize there are people behind the game/software and starts to be insulting instead of giving you information on how to improve things.
> 
> When you spend multiple months doing overtime, working every week ends to fix bugs, you learn to stay far away from forums/social media/comments on the days following the release.
> More people are playing the game, so you are going to receive bug reports, with more information, so you just just focus on fixing the issues one by one, sometimes working with players willing to help you.
> And you have a better state of the product this way than reading social media. Because even if the game is globally well received, sold well, etc, reading people saying that everything is broken, and you did not even tried to test it, etc, is not really pleasant, especially when you still need to work on fixing the issue they have.
> 
> PC is an other beast. You just can't test all of the configurations. Sure, you can try to have AMD/intel processors, AMD/Nvidia graphics card, but not all of them, there is so many possibilities. And other softwares installed/running at the same time can also be an issue. And drivers, etc.


I must be brutal working on games. The quality of "discourse" I encounter when pondered through steam forums is painful.


----------



## CT

oks2024 said:


> Especially when the other 9 998 000 are too busy playing the game to add their point of view.



I think this is exactly why some of us "fanbois" try to be just as vocal about our positive experience, so that people stumbling on this thread don't get the impression that everything is total crap.


----------



## Saigen

Uiroo said:


> I'd say they still have a good reason to complain because they bought BBCSO without any constumer reviews while they (as it turns out) could've waited for Black Friday when the certain issues were known AND would have gotten Aperture Strings for Free (as a bonus bummer).
> 
> And regarding the option to cancel, someone said that was communicated poorly, so that might be part of the frustration caused.
> 
> I would have thought that the thought process behind pre-odering is: You get it cheaper than anyone else but you also don't know what you're buying and get to be the guinea pig.
> 
> What it became: Thanks for testing the alpha and reporting bugs, the others get Aperture Strings on top.



Spitfire BBC Plugin on Windows:






I made something new, this time combining BBC with Soundiron's lakeside pipe organ and 8dio's requiem pro. I do really appreciate the cohesive sound though.


----------



## Christopher Rocky

@oks2024 the issues raised come in comparison to having most of SA libraries that run in kontakt and have all the benefits of that sample player taken out and you cant even use a simple ADSR to fix issues with the inconsistencies etc... for me that would fix a lot of the problems with the lib (and quite a few others including @staypuft i'd imagine) they also throw around hype marketing offering the universal starting point of a library, which is not what it is. 

most if not all libraries that are expensive should come with adsr at least, it is the standard that kontakt has set, we expect it when you pay more than $300. 

I was one of the lucky ones who got bbcso to work on my pc with cubase with only issues of the library itself (memory optimization/sample issues) but i guess people would label me a 'fanboy' because i do like bbcso, even with its flaws. I just have more faith and trust SA will fix things. 

I'm also a little annoyed about aperture strings too, considering in september i spent a huge chunk of money on not only bbcso but a few other things. i emailed SA and got the same response others got about 'sorry its only available this weekend if you spend more money'. pretty sh*tty, they should throw it in to all the people who pre ordered BBCSO at least, that would be a great idea, but that aint gonna happen hey.

I think this thread has made another thing poignant, that there isnt anywhere else for composer peers, beginners, experts, hobbiest all rolled into one, to come and vent there thoughts. naturally its going to get emotional and have some heat behind it.

I hope the more experienced people in here would have a little more patience with people who aren't as experienced, like editing inside kontakt, all you pros were begginers once too.

also @staypuft the samples you shared are amazing! we need you in here to keep things on track so @paulthomson can listen to your queries from an experienced composer


----------



## Fleer

I’m pretty sure Spitfire will do you guys right as they care for their customers ❤️


----------



## mralmostpopular

ChristopherRock said:


> @oks2024 they also throw around hype marketing offering the universal starting point of a library, which is not what it is.



I feel like it is. I’ve been able to look at some others’ Logic projects, and go, “So _that’s_ what they doing”. It’s definitely going to be a starting point for me moving forward.


----------



## bvaughn0402

mralmostpopular said:


> I feel like it is. I’ve been able to look at some others’ Logic projects, and go, “So _that’s_ what they doing”. It’s definitely going to be a starting point for me moving forward.



which ones?


----------



## Christopher Rocky

mralmostpopular said:


> I feel like it is. I’ve been able to look at some others’ Logic projects, and go, “So _that’s_ what they doing”. It’s definitely going to be a starting point for me moving forward.


Interesting, maybe thats what i'm missing? does anyone have any cubase sessions to share? i would love to see something like what staypuft did, something i cant pull off!

i took the term universal starting point, in the sense that it encapsulates all the things necessary, which you totally can argue thats what it offers as it has every section, but maybe it just doesnt do it well. or as well as the symphonic series with more dynamic layers.

to be honest about it though, the only thing that is universal is kontakt, and if your missing its features. its not a starting point because you dont have the adsr ability (and saving the patch), thats really the only thing i do with kontakt under the hood, i dont edit samples etc... but i have been inspired to do so now after this thread for sure. i aint gonna knit-pick the product, like i said i actually love the sound of it. its just a little awkward to program. trying to get the shorts in time especially.


----------



## mralmostpopular

bvaughn0402 said:


> which ones?



Have you checked out Mattia’s “Closure“ project file?



ChristopherRock said:


> Interesting, maybe thats what i'm missing? does anyone have any cubase sessions to share? i would love to see something like what staypuft did, something i cant pull off!
> 
> i took the term universal starting point, in the sense that it encapsulates all the things necessary, which you totally can argue thats what it offers as it has every section, but maybe it just doesnt do it well. or as well as the symphonic series with more dynamic layers.
> 
> to be honest about it though, the only thing that is universal is kontakt, and if your missing its features. its not a starting point because you dont have the adsr ability (and saving the patch), thats really the only thing i do with kontakt under the hood, i dont edit samples etc... but i have been inspired to do so now after this thread for sure. i aint gonna knit-pick the product, like i said i actually love the sound of it. its just a little awkward to program. trying to get the shorts in time especially.



Universal Starting Point is definitely a marketing term, but I don’t think it implies that it has everything you could possibly want. Realistically any library could be considered a universal starting point if enough people use it. In this case, it goes hand in hand with the community they’re trying to build.

I can see how some people might want to tweak. I don’t think I have the skill-set to do that, so it doesn’t feel like anything is missing for me. The samples are what they are.


----------



## Zedcars

For the past few days I’ve been trying to figure out how to add vibrato to the solo trumpet legato patch (it doesn’t have it). I’ve tried vibrato plugins but they always sound unnatural. Yesterday I figured I’d try using Melodyne to accentuate the natural vibrato within the notes. They don’t sound like they have any, but if you use the Melodyne modulation tool to add between 200 to 800% you can bring out some ‘hidden’ subtle vibrato. I had to split each note a few times and ramp up the percentages so I could simulate a progressive vibrato.

You might ask why not use a different library? Well I tried and, of the trumpets I have (VSL Cube, VSL Dimension (Synchronized and non-Synchronized), MSB, SStB) the BBCSO one always trump(et)s the others in tone and obviously matches the room ambience 100%.


----------



## Christopher Rocky

mralmostpopular said:


> I can see how some people might want to tweak. I don’t think I have the skill-set to do that, so it doesn’t feel like anything is missing for me. The samples are what they are.


But thats half the problem when the shorts can be out of time with the inconsistencies in the samples, some RR are on the beat then there are a few that are sloppy and off. changing the 'timed' setting helps a bit. I reckon its something they will fix though, they may have already fixed it in 1.0.7? last session i ran with it was the last patch.


----------



## paulthomson

bvaughn0402 said:


> which ones?



you could check out the intro to Star Wars - not very tidy cause I did it super quick in about an hour! But the link is below my YT..


----------



## redlester

mralmostpopular said:


> Universal Starting Point is definitely a marketing term, but I don’t think it implies that it has everything you could possibly want.



Indeed not. In fact “starting point” implies the opposite to that. If it had everything you could want it would be a universal finishing point, now that would be a bold marketing claim!


----------



## Jaap

So far the library is running smooth on windows 10 and Cubase 10.5 - no issues as so far with the 1.07 version.
I love the tone of the library and after some good testing I start to notice that playing with this library needs a slightly different approach then with my other libs. It works much better when you gently use the modwheel instead of the "bigger" leaps. I really love the results I am getting so far.

There is one big concern for me atm and that is the Horn, both solo and the a4 - lots of things to improve there. On some of the lower notes in the solo horn it almost sounds like a flutter and sounds like the player has problems to keep his embouchure up. Also the staccatissimo and marcato patches are a bit too much on the soft side in my opinion.

The overal tone of the library is splendid and incorporating this straight away in a project and glad to see its very stable, which was the reason I held back till now.


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

bvaughn0402 said:


> which ones?


I've also shared the files for this other project





__





Flying Sleigh - BBCSO


Hello! I've heard quite a lot of slow, intimate music made with this library so I wanted to try something different and I challenged myself with a piece I knew it would be hard to mockup. Here you go! Files and score here...




vi-control.net


----------



## ridgero

@SpitfireSupport

Will the SSO transfered to the new Player as well anytime soon (next year or so)?


----------



## mralmostpopular

redlester said:


> Indeed not. In fact “starting point” implies the opposite to that. If it had everything you could want it would be a universal finishing point, now that would be a bold marketing claim!



Exactly. I don’t know why so many people keep thinking starting point means everything you could possibly need. Even some of the videos they’ve put up using BBCSO have other libraries in them (e.g. soft piano).


----------



## Fleer

ridgero said:


> @SpitfireSupport
> 
> Will the SSO transfered to the new Player as well anytime soon (next year or so)?


I wonder if all libraries will eventually be transferred to the new Spitfire player. 
Wouldn’t mind, actually.


----------



## AllanH

Zedcars said:


> For the past few days I’ve been trying to figure out how to add vibrato to the solo trumpet legato patch (it doesn’t have it). I’ve tried vibrato plugins but they always sound unnatural. Yesterday I figured I’d try using Melodyne to accentuate the natural vibrato within the notes. They don’t sound like they have any, but if you use the Melodyne modulation tool to add between 200 to 800% you can bring out some ‘hidden’ subtle vibrato. I had to split each note a few times and ramp up the percentages so I could simulate a progressive vibrato.
> 
> You might ask why not use a different library? Well I tried and, of the trumpets I have (VSL Cube, VSL Dimension (Synchronized and non-Synchronized), MSB, SStB) the BBCSO one always trump(et)s the others in tone and obviously matches the room ambience 100%.



I ended up in the same situation. The lack of vibrato on the solo trumpet makes its difficult to use in an exposed situation. I ended up using Cubase's vibrato plugin and setting the vibrato frequency very low at 1 bar and the keeping the effect down in the 5 to 10% range. This gives the trumpet enough movement to sound a bit alive. It's really a pity that there is no vibrato, as the trumpet sounds cold and clinical without.


----------



## ridgero

The cool r


Fleer said:


> I wonder if all libraries will eventually be transferred to the new Spitfire player.
> Wouldn’t mind, actually.



Neither do I.

I find it quite comfortable to have one big library in one plugin.

The good & odd thing about Kontakt is to scroll through all libraries. It gets quite annoying if you own many libraries.

I would love to have a separate plugin for SSO / Chamber SSO


----------



## jbuhler

I hope SF builds a stand-alone version of the player. I don't like using Komplete Kontrol to host it, and I often like to noodle about with libraries without opening the DAW.


----------



## redlester

jbuhler said:


> I hope SF builds a stand-alone version of the player. I don't like using Komplete Kontrol to host it, and I often like to noodle about with libraries without opening the DAW.



Are you on a Mac? If so, download this free hosting app. Allows you to open any AU plugins without opening the DAW. 
http://ju-x.com/hostingau.html


----------



## brenneisen

redlester said:


> Are you on a Mac? If so, download this free hosting app. Allows you to open any AU plugins without opening the DAW.
> http://ju-x.com/hostingau.html



Komplete Kontrol is also a host and that's exactly what he's trying to get rid of....


----------



## jbuhler

redlester said:


> Are you on a Mac? If so, download this free hosting app. Allows you to open any AU plugins without opening the DAW.
> http://ju-x.com/hostingau.html


Yes, I am on a Mac. Thanks!



brenneisen said:


> Komplete Kontrol is also a host and that's exactly what he's trying to get rid of....


I'd be happy to use Komplete Kontrol if it didn't have to do so much business updating its database every time I opened it. It wouldn't be a problem, I suppose if I used it all the time, but I use it only occasionally, so it seems like I have a five minute wait every time I open it.

ETA: I'm also not fond of the navigation in Komplete Kontrol. I just want something quick and easy, so I can get to noodling without having to wait.


----------



## brenneisen

use Reaper, ready to go in 2 seconds 

(Cubase user here, not preaching Reaperism)


----------



## redlester

brenneisen said:


> Komplete Kontrol is also a host and that's exactly what he's trying to get rid of....



I know but the Hosting AU app opens instantly and will open any plugin, including the stand alone Spitfire ones. Komplete Kontrol won’t open those.


----------



## redlester

jbuhler said:


> . I just want something quick and easy, so I can get to noodling without having to wait.



That’s precisely what the app I linked to will allow you to do.


----------



## jbuhler

redlester said:


> That’s precisely what the app I linked to will allow you to do.


Yup. Downloaded and thanks again for the tip!


----------



## Jett Hitt

paulthomson said:


> Actually that’s completely incorrect. We have multiple rigs with many configurations. Christian is not bedded into the CX team and made an assumption - mainly based on his experience with the composer team mainly using logic - that we should be looking to the outside for help in constructing the perfect Cubase template. This was certainly a good idea, as we have far more Logic ninjas in the team.
> But to extend that to assert as you have done several times that we don’t test on PC is not only incorrect but also provocative and insulting. Do you think we are idiots?
> Again - for the sake of balance - very few PC users had issues - we immediately worked round the clock to fix them. This has happily translated to improvements for all - and I’m grateful to those affected who helped us by trying out interim builds while we isolated the specific issues that were causing problems in some machines.
> 
> It would be great if you - like I do - could extend the courtesy of respectful discourse to include not only the members of the forum, but also the developers here - we too are human beings and members of the forum just like you.
> 
> By the way, I really liked the two pieces you posted up. I’m still interested to read your feedback.
> All best,
> 
> 
> Paul


When I see a reply like this, I am reminded of why I actually follow Spitfire, as opposed to just using their libraries. Both Paul and Christian regularly invite us into their studios, and we feel like we know them. And let's face it, it's almost impossible to not like them. Perhaps because of this perceived relationship with them, some people seem to feel like they have been personally affronted or hoodwinked when something isn't quite the way they think it should be. This has resulted in some rather hateful, nasty comments. I myself am guilty of whipping out a post without fully considering the full impact of the statement. I think everyone does this occasionally. I understand the outrage when you've spent a lot of money for something that doesn't work, but it was clear from the beginning that Spitfire was going to make it work. Until I came to understand just how many configurations there were on the Windows side, I was pretty annoyed myself, and I am a mac user. It had all the appearance of the type of corporate screwing that we've all become accustomed to. And now it is fixed, and we all have a great library. It still needs some work. I find the occasional out of tune note, and the legato on Violin 1 makes Logic go bonkers for reasons that I don't really understand. But in general, aren't we all lucky that there is a Spitfire Audio?

I do think that Spitfire has caused some unintended and unnecessary animosity by allowing people to buy BBCSO on Black Friday at the introductory price and get Aperture Strings. It is hardly fair to the early adopters who put their faith in Spitfire and coughed up the cash. It is kind of a slap in the face. Once the Black Friday sale is complete, it will be very interesting to see how this is handled.


----------



## mralmostpopular

hittjett said:


> I do think that Spitfire has caused some unintended and unnecessary animosity by allowing people to buy BBCSO on Black Friday at the introductory price and get Aperture Strings. It is hardly fair to the early adopters who put their faith in Spitfire and coughed up the cash. It is kind of a slap in the face. Once the Black Friday sale is complete, it will be very interesting to see how this is handled.



I don’t think they’ll do anything, honestly. It’s lose-lose now. They’ll either have BBCSO pre-order people upset, or people who bought something on Black Friday upset. You know if they gave it away to anyone else now, someone will start a thread complaining. At this point, they’ll probably just let it die. I really don’t imagine most being too upset a couple of months from now either way.


----------



## Fleer

Almost, but not entirely so, if they decided to give Aperture Strings to those who pre-ordered BBCSO.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

hittjett said:


> I do think that Spitfire has caused some unintended and unnecessary animosity by allowing people to buy BBCSO on Black Friday at the introductory price and get Aperture Strings. It is hardly fair to the early adopters who put their faith in Spitfire and coughed up the cash. It is kind of a slap in the face. Once the Black Friday sale is complete, it will be very interesting to see how this is handled.



^This. It's water under the bridge at this point, but definitely a slap in the face.


----------



## Uiroo

Fleer said:


> Almost, but not entirely so, if they decided to give Aperture Strings to those who pre-ordered BBCSO.


Yes, but if they'd do that now, people who got it at Black Friday could be pissed because it's not as exclusive anymore.


----------



## Jett Hitt

mralmostpopular said:


> I don’t think they’ll do anything, honestly. It’s lose-lose now. They’ll either have BBCSO pre-order people upset, or people who bought something on Black Friday upset. You know if they gave it away to anyone else now, someone will start a thread complaining. At this point, they’ll probably just let it die. I really don’t imagine most being too upset a couple of months from now either way.


I’m not sure why anyone who bought something on Black Friday should be upset about someone who bought a product being rewarded for doing so. It clearly stated on the website that BBCSO would not be on sale on Black Friday. I preordered thinking this was the case. I later learned in this forum that this decision had been changed. Giving it to early adopters would seem to be a way to make amends for a policy change. I’m not sure why anyone should be upset by Spitfire saying, “Hey, we unintentionally misled you early adopters, and to make up for that, here’s Aperture Strings.”


----------



## Lcas

I just got studio brass in the spring sale so I've been doing a lot of calculation for saving money and getting the whole studio orchestra. Like, I could get The Ton and then actually save a little money on 2018 Core ($505 vs $530) . Then wait till Christmas to complete studio orchestra pro for $500.

Then I decided to look at BBC and I'm like forget it, THIS is the thing I want. Assuming the tradition of the spring sale continues, I can just get it for $600 in a few months. 

Didn't expect studio orchestra to be so incredibly out-valued that quickly, by the same company, and it's not like spitfire is some new guy trying to make a name for itself. 

Got a long thread to skim through, and it looks like more drama but that's part of the fun I guess. 

One thing I will say from just a couple posts I've seen. Who cares about someone's entitlement to being in, or out, of the Aperture Strings Cool Kids Club? Oh no, you missed out on a cool freebie, bfd. But at least I can understand the feeling. The other side of that, to give even the tiniest thought about pre-Black Friday BBC buyers receiving Aperture strings? Do you really value the exclusivity of a freebie? Does it matter to you that this is "exclusive" definition is being diluted?


----------



## Joel Ewers

I wasn't expecting any freebies in the first place, so no expectations dashed. To the people who got Aperture for free, good for you!


----------



## dzilizzi

Uiroo said:


> Yes, but if they'd do that now, people who got it at Black Friday could be pissed because it's not as exclusive anymore.


I got it for Black Friday and I really don't care if it is exclusive. If they decide to give it to people who pre-ordered BBCSO, I don't have a problem.


----------



## madfloyd

dzilizzi said:


> I got it for Black Friday and I really don't care if it is exclusive. If they decide to give it to people who pre-ordered BBCSO, I don't have a problem.


Same here. The only people who might be upset are those who bought BBCSO during the presale and who spent the requisite amount of money on BF to get the exclusive Aperture Strings.


----------



## dzilizzi

madfloyd said:


> Same here. The only people who might be upset are those who bought BBCSO during the presale and who spent the requisite amount of money on BF to get the exclusive Aperture Strings.


There were a couple of collections that were a good price - comparable to the wishlist sale. As long as they spent money on that, they probably weren't really buying something they wouldn't have bought eventually. Me, those strings cost me about $17 - the difference between the discount I paid on one item and how much it would have cost me if I waited. The discount on the other items was equal to or less than what I would have paid next month.


----------



## josephspirits

Lcas said:


> I just got studio brass in the spring sale so I've been doing a lot of calculation for saving money and getting the whole studio orchestra. Like, I could get The Ton and then actually save a little money on 2018 Core ($505 vs $530) . Then wait till Christmas to complete studio orchestra pro for $500.
> 
> Then I decided to look at BBC and I'm like forget it, THIS is the thing I want. Assuming the tradition of the spring sale continues, I can just get it for $600 in a few months.
> 
> Didn't expect studio orchestra to be so incredibly out-valued that quickly, by the same company, and it's not like spitfire is some new guy trying to make a name for itself.
> 
> Got a long thread to skim through, and it looks like more drama but that's part of the fun I guess.
> 
> One thing I will say from just a couple posts I've seen. Who cares about someone's entitlement to being in, or out, of the Aperture Strings Cool Kids Club? Oh no, you missed out on a cool freebie, bfd. But at least I can understand the feeling. The other side of that, to give even the tiniest thought about pre-Black Friday BBC buyers receiving Aperture strings? Do you really value the exclusivity of a freebie? Does it matter to you that this is "exclusive" definition is being diluted?



I think I know how you're feeling. The thing I remind myself though is that the dry sound of the studio series is very different, and can be used in a different variety of ways, so you don't need to see it as out-valued. I do wish I had known something like BBSCO was coming though, I would have liked to have chosen whether I was going to invest more in the studio series or BBCSO. That's how it will always be though, always something new to get excited about.


----------



## gpax

jbuhler said:


> And for those with an EDU discount, it was offered at 40% off during the preorder period.


$600 for educators and students at the time, in fact.


----------



## prodigalson

Personally, I don’t care about aperture. It sounds great but I have no need for a library that goes from 5 players to 60 in one note. However, I understand why people are upset about it.

It’s not simply a case of “someone’s getting something for free and not me”. People who preordered were very specifically told this was the best deal for the foreseeable future. they were encouraged to buy during the preorder. Whatever way you slice it, offering it for the same price only a few weeks later but now bundled with a free library IS objectively a better deal. If you happen to see value in that library and it is given for free to someone who waited to buy only a matter of weeks later then yeah that sucks and feels disingenuous on the part of SFA. They must have known the BF deal would be coming when they released BBCSO and so saying the preorder was the best deal was simply not true. 

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Lcas

josephspirits said:


> I think I know how you're feeling. The thing I remind myself though is that the dry sound of the studio series is very different, and can be used in a different variety of ways, so you don't need to see it as out-valued. I do wish I had known something like BBSCO was coming though, I would have liked to have chosen whether I was going to invest more in the studio series or BBCSO. That's how it will always be though, always something new to get excited about.


I see it like this: I am happy with studio brass pro for the $240 I spent. It has a diversity of instruments and is very flexible since it's dry. If I already had studio orchestra, I'd be fine without BBC.

Now I have a choice between $485 for studio strings and winds, versus $600 (maybe 700 if it's considered a collection) for strings, winds, more brass, and percussion.

There's some other stuff out there and we're at a point where it's all very similar, but everything else is quite a bit more money than BBC.



prodigalson said:


> Personally, I don’t care about aperture. It sounds great but I have no need for a library that goes from 5 players to 60 in one note. However, I understand why people are upset about it.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s not simply a case of “someone’s getting something for free and not me”. People who preordered were very specifically told this was the best deal for the foreseeable future. they were encouraged to buy during the preorder. Whatever way you slice it, offering it for the same price only a few weeks later but now bundled with a free library IS objectively a better deal. If you happen to see value in that library and it is given for free to someone who waited to buy only a matter of weeks later then yeah that sucks and feels disingenuous on the part of SFA. They must have known the BF deal would be coming when they released BBCSO and so saying the preorder was the best deal was simply not true.
> 
> 
> 
> Just my 2 cents.



I get the feeling but it comes down to whether you buy these things because the deal is the absolute best thing it can be for a specified period, or if you buy it because you want it and the price is acceptable.

The price hasn't even come down yet, and you also know it is only a few months before the 40% reduction, or something similar enough.

This is still about exclusivity, whether it is about the intro price club, or the freebie club. Aperture is not tied to BBC in any way, you get it for anything over the threshold.

Honestly, spitfire struck a good balance and has stuck with it. Their prices are stable, but there's the consistency and generosity of the Christmas and Easter sales. Black Friday goes one step further with some time limited stuff.

To feel bad about something so predictable and, if you play your cards right, beneficial to you, is crazy. You can wait and get it cheaper, or you can buy it now. Nobody forcing you, and again, spitfire keeps their prices about as stable as can be without being annoying and un-fun, as goofy as that sounds.


----------



## Uiroo

dzilizzi said:


> I got it for Black Friday and I really don't care if it is exclusive. If they decide to give it to people who pre-ordered BBCSO, I don't have a problem.


And I think almost all people would feel that way. But I think it's still tricky for SF. If ONE person would complain, that person would be a 100% right, even if nobody else cares.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Well the BBCSO libraries were sent out in the order that they were purchased, so there’s the benefit of having it 1-2 days sooner. Also, it’s kind of exciting knowing it will definitely be arriving in the post on or just before the day of release. There’s also the possibility that the money may get sucked into something else, so I guess it’s almost like a commitment that you make because you believe in the company and the product itself.
> 
> I think there are a few guys who like to be ahead of the competition with the latest and greatest new releases - so they can ride the coattails of Spitfire and drum up interest in their own composing skills. A few YouTube reviewers also like to get in early.
> 
> This release was special because it promised (and I think delivered) ease of mixing with a cohesive sound that makes mock-up creation easier and quicker.
> 
> But if none of that is relevant/important to you/one then I guess there isn’t much benefit.


Good points well made. I forgot about the SSD thing which would have been a benefit. (See, the effects of cheap coffee. I'm not on top of my game...)


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Zedcars said:


> Got it working! Sleigh bells come to papa!



Sleigh bells now available: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/labs/

P.S. This is a coincidence, I promise you we didn't do this just because of this thread!


----------



## Alex Fraser

SpitfireSupport said:


> Sleigh bells now available: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/labs/
> 
> P.S. This is a coincidence, I promise you we didn't do this just because of this thread!


...he said, whist reaching into the giant tin of Quality Street chocolates.


----------



## al_net77

SpitfireSupport said:


> Sleigh bells now available: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/labs/
> 
> P.S. This is a coincidence, I promise you we didn't do this just because of this thread!



Doh!


----------



## prodigalson

Lcas said:


> I get the feeling but it comes down to whether you buy these things because the deal is the absolute best thing it can be for a specified period, or if you buy it because you want it and the price is acceptable.



Of course, but I'm talking here specifically of the objective relative value of two different deals offered within mere weeks so let's assume that those that are upset purchased because they believed it was the best deal for a specific period. 

Normally I'd agree with you with respect to spitfires approach to their customers but let's not pretend people are upset just because they bought something in November and it went on sale again in a few months. We're talking about intro ending Nov. 7th and then Nov. 28th going on sale again but now you can get a pretty nice sounding string library. If you purchased because you believed the preorder would be the best way to purchase BBCSO (for a REASONABLE amount of time and as indicated by Spitfire) it would be hard not to feel a bit of a sucker if actually the (objectively) best way was less than 3 weeks later. 

And of course, Aperture is not tied to BBCSO but that's not really the point. It's about the relative value of two different POTENTIAL deals held within a few weeks of each other. If someone was upset because they purchased in November and at Christmas this aperture deal happened, I'd say stop moaning that's how these deals work. But in this case, it does feel a little disingenuous for them to say "this is the best deal" if they also knew that if customers waited just a few more weeks they could also get a pretty sweet string library. 

Again, I personally am not that bothered by it. But objectively, I can understand in this set of circumstances why people are upset about it.


----------



## chemie262

prodigalson said:


> Of course, but I'm talking here specifically of the objective relative value of two different deals offered within mere weeks so let's assume that those that are upset purchased because they believed it was the best deal for a specific period.
> 
> Normally I'd agree with you with respect to spitfires approach to their customers but let's not pretend people are upset just because they bought something in November and it went on sale again in a few months. We're talking about intro ending Nov. 7th and then Nov. 28th going on sale again but now you can get a pretty nice sounding string library. If you purchased because you believed the preorder would be the best way to purchase BBCSO (for a REASONABLE amount of time and as indicated by Spitfire) it would be hard not to feel a bit of a sucker if actually the (objectively) best way was less than 3 weeks later.
> 
> And of course, Aperture is not tied to BBCSO but that's not really the point. It's about the relative value of two different POTENTIAL deals held within a few weeks of each other. If someone was upset because they purchased in November and at Christmas this aperture deal happened, I'd say stop moaning that's how these deals work. But in this case, it does feel a little disingenuous for them to say "this is the best deal" if they also knew that if customers waited just a few more weeks they could also get a pretty sweet string library.
> 
> Again, I personally am not that bothered by it. But objectively, I can understand in this set of circumstances why people are upset about it.


and especially for the poor Windows users, who were beta-testers and could not really use the library.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

prodigalson said:


> Again, I personally am not that bothered by it. But objectively, I can understand in this set of circumstances why people are upset about it.



I think it could could have gone something like this...

"Preorder BBCSO before it's official release, and receive this exclusive one-time-only bonus library, only available to those of preorder".


----------



## Denkii

I moved on. Spent my money elsewhere as promised.
Feels nice.

I still like BBCSO.
I also like my other new shiny toys.

I don't miss aperture strings.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Lcas

prodigalson said:


> Of course, but I'm talking here specifically of the objective relative value of two different deals offered within mere weeks so let's assume that those that are upset purchased because they believed it was the best deal for a specific period.
> 
> Normally I'd agree with you with respect to spitfires approach to their customers but let's not pretend people are upset just because they bought something in November and it went on sale again in a few months. We're talking about intro ending Nov. 7th and then Nov. 28th going on sale again but now you can get a pretty nice sounding string library. If you purchased because you believed the preorder would be the best way to purchase BBCSO (for a REASONABLE amount of time and as indicated by Spitfire) it would be hard not to feel a bit of a sucker if actually the (objectively) best way was less than 3 weeks later.
> 
> And of course, Aperture is not tied to BBCSO but that's not really the point. It's about the relative value of two different POTENTIAL deals held within a few weeks of each other. If someone was upset because they purchased in November and at Christmas this aperture deal happened, I'd say stop moaning that's how these deals work. But in this case, it does feel a little disingenuous for them to say "this is the best deal" if they also knew that if customers waited just a few more weeks they could also get a pretty sweet string library.
> 
> Again, I personally am not that bothered by it. But objectively, I can understand in this set of circumstances why people are upset about it.


I got you and we agree pretty much I would like to just narrow down exactly who we are talking about at this point. 

Someone who wants BBC enough to:

1. Get it right away, knowing there will be issues. It's not even a kontakt lib. From what I've read these issues are resolved. Being an early adopter is a fun, but not necessarily professional, endeavor. People who don't know this find out quick. 

2. Pay $750 for it, knowing they have at most until Spring until that price goes down. Knowing black Friday is a couple weeks away, and that surely there will be more cool stuff happening like the ton and aperture. 

3. Cares about this price club with a 1 month window, but not about a 5 month window whatsoever. 

4. Had $750 lying around for BBC but just can't figure out where to find another $350 for more stuff. For the sake of a freebie no less. Just so they can feel better about buying a great library at a great price just a couple weeks ago. 

5. Is waaaaay too concerned about the quality of the deal, to this specifically ridiculous degree, rather than using the library 


We simply disagree on how much sympathy we have for this miserable unicorn of a sample library collector 😛


----------



## prodigalson

Lcas said:


> I got you and we agree pretty much I would like to just narrow down exactly who we are talking about at this point.
> 
> Someone who wants BBC enough to:
> 
> 1. Get it right away, knowing there will be issues. It's not even a kontakt lib. From what I've read these issues are resolved. Being an early adopter is a fun, but not necessarily professional, endeavor. People who don't know this find out quick.



Yes.



> 2. Pay $750 for it, knowing they have at most until Spring until that price goes down. Knowing black Friday is a couple weeks away, and that surely there will be more cool stuff happening like the ton and aperture.



Not sure I agree that it would have been reasonable to assume "cool stuff" like a free library with qualifying purchase would be on the cards in a few weeks. especially if SFA were actively saying this would be the best "Deal". 



> 3. Cares about this price club with a 1 month window, but not about a 5 month window whatsoever.



Yes. 



> 4. Had $750 lying around for BBC but just can't figure out where to find another $350 for more stuff. For the sake of a freebie no less. Just so they can feel better about buying a great library at a great price just a couple weeks ago.



Whether they have the money to spend or not isn't really relevant. 



> 5. Is waaaaay too concerned about the quality of the deal, to this specifically ridiculous degree, rather than using the library.



You're overstating how "ridiculous" the degree of the concern is when generally we're just talking about people expressing an opinion in good faith on the forum. I'd also argue that it's physically possible to write a couple posts on the Internet while also using the library.  



> We simply disagree on how much sympathy we have for this miserable unicorn of a sample library collector 😛



Yes, but I'd also disagree as to how much he/she is a unicorn. 

I'd also throw out that personally I don't think this will be the last we'll see of the Aperture library anyway. I don't buy the idea that they developed a library only to offer it for free for a few days. I think it will be part of a bigger library down the line, especially if it seems people are responding well to it.


----------



## CT

Wow. I bought BBCSO for sleigh bells, and now they release free LABS sleigh bells? Talk about slimy business practices.


----------



## Lcas

prodigalson said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure I agree that it would have been reasonable to assume "cool stuff" like a free library with qualifying purchase would be on the cards in a few weeks. especially if SFA were actively saying this would be the best "Deal".
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> Whether they have the money to spend or not isn't really relevant.
> 
> 
> 
> You're overstating how "ridiculous" the degree of the concern is when generally we're just talking about people expressing an opinion in good faith on the forum. I'd also argue that it's physically possible to write a couple posts on the Internet while also using the library.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but I'd also disagree as to how much he/she is a unicorn.
> 
> I'd also throw out that personally I don't think this will be the last we'll see of the Aperture library anyway. I don't buy the idea that they developed a library only to offer it for free for a few days. I think it will be part of a bigger library down the line, especially if it seems people are responding well to it.


Money is the most relevant thing here. The way a few very rare people feel about others getting similar and, contextually better in the slightest of ways, deals. Rather than the product itself, that's what I'm saying. 

People who are fans of complaining on forums, rather than the subject matter of the forum. That's the other issue that I really don't care to unpack even though I've cut the tape on the box.


----------



## Hadrondrift

Lcas said:


> Being an early adopter is a fun, but not necessarily professional, endeavor. People who don't know this find out quick.


And pre-ordered Junky XL Brass with OT's new sample player, just to get BBCSO out of focus for now. 


prodigalson said:


> Whether they have the money to spend or not isn't really relevant.


Here I don't agree. It seems to me that some people feel a devaluation of an expensive purchase. They bought early, others buying later get more (Aperture). Even if this freebie is not tied to BBCSO, sort of buyers remorse of early BBCSO adopters kicks in. Them unhappy. To a certain extent, I can understand that. Especially those will develop negative feelings for whom the early BBCSO purchase was close to the financial pain threshold. I assume that there are quite a few of them, as Spitfire's marketing was phenomenal and has certainly moved many people to buy who would not normally buy in this price range.

So it may perfectly be the case that some don't have another $350 lying around and feel "locked out" of Aperture, feel treated unequally. It won't even comfort them that we have probably not seen the last aperturesque offer from SF.


----------



## Lcas

You know what, guys? I had a change of heart.

Last week I went to the local Iced Creame Shoppe, and they had this new $10 chocolate sundae, on a intro price of $7.50. The manager assured me it would be back to $10 until next month when it will cost a mere $6.00 (fingers crossed but no big deal) 

Just got back from there, today's the biggest iced creame event of the year. But wouldn't ya know it? That new $10 sundae was only $7.50 again!

Not only that. Anybody who buys $3.50 of iced creame?

Free miniature candy cane.

What am I supposed to do, buy a sorbet?!

I dunno, friends. Got some negative feelings. Lost a little trust.

One thing that you should know. This is a special type of iced creame. You buy it once, and it lasts forever. Literally a lifetime. And what's more?

People pay me to eat it. I make a living because people love to watch me eat iced creame.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

$7.50 is a far cry from $750 USD....which is $1000 CDN. It's the principle.


----------



## Zedcars

Lcas said:


> You know what, guys? I had a change of heart.
> 
> Last week I went to the local Iced Creame Shoppe, and they had this new $10 chocolate sundae, on a intro price of $7.50. The manager assured me it would be back to $10 until next month when it will cost a mere $6.00 (fingers crossed but no big deal)
> 
> Just got back from there, today's the biggest iced creame event of the year. But wouldn't ya know it? That new $10 sundae was only $7.50 again!
> 
> Not only that. Anybody who buys $3.50 of iced creame?
> 
> Free miniature candy cane.
> 
> What am I supposed to do, buy a sorbet?!
> 
> I dunno, friends. Got some negative feelings. Lost a little trust.
> 
> One thing that you should know. This is a special type of iced creame. You buy it once, and it lasts forever. Literally a lifetime. And what's more?
> 
> People pay me to eat it. I make a living because people love to watch me eat iced creame.


TBH, that sort of offer leaves me cold.


----------



## Lcas

Wolfie2112 said:


> $7.50 is a far cry from $750 USD....which is $1000 CDN. It's the principle.


Eyeroll


----------



## Loïc D

miket said:


> Wow. I bought BBCSO for sleigh bells, and now they release free LABS sleigh bells? Talk about slimy business practices.


It's exactly the reason why I eventually won't buy BBCSO now, and save my money on a bunch of Quality Streets boxes to soften my sorrow...


----------



## Jaap

For the ones that find this usefull information. I created a template in VEP with all the basic articulations loaded and it saved me 17 GB... My Cubase project with instruments tracks started to take 54 GB, looked less at first, but slowly grew. In VEP7 the exact same articulations take only 37 GB


----------



## Jett Hitt

Jaap said:


> For the ones that find this usefull information. I created a template in VEP with all the basic articulations loaded and it saved me 17 GB... My Cubase project with instruments tracks started to take 54 GB, looked less at first, but slowly grew. In VEP7 the exact same articulations take only 37 GB


That is interesting. When I used Cubase on the Mac, I always hosted in VEP for stability. Using VEP with Logic doesn't seem to affect things much with BBCSO, which isn't to say that Mac users needed help with RAM. I generally prefer hosting sounds in VEP, but I have only been able to assign one fader to the Spitfire plugin within VEP. Consequently, I have had to just run everything in Logic.


----------



## Lcas

I got a 2500k and 32gb. Any sandy bridge users in the house?

Saw the cpu requirements and I'm wondering what that's based on. Anybody with lower end cpu get some chuggling and at what point regarding mics/instruments?

Like at what point does this old champion of a cpu finally retire?


----------



## animatione

hittjett said:


> When I see a reply like this, I am reminded of why I actually follow Spitfire, as opposed to just using their libraries. Both Paul and Christian regularly invite us into their studios, and we feel like we know them. And let's face it, it's almost impossible to not like them. Perhaps because of this perceived relationship with them, some people seem to feel like they have been personally affronted or hoodwinked when something isn't quite the way they think it should be. This has resulted in some rather hateful, nasty comments. I myself am guilty of whipping out a post without fully considering the full impact of the statement. I think everyone does this occasionally. I understand the outrage when you've spent a lot of money for something that doesn't work, but it was clear from the beginning that Spitfire was going to make it work. Until I came to understand just how many configurations there were on the Windows side, I was pretty annoyed myself, and I am a mac user. It had all the appearance of the type of corporate screwing that we've all become accustomed to. And now it is fixed, and we all have a great library. It still needs some work. I find the occasional out of tune note, and the legato on Violin 1 makes Logic go bonkers for reasons that I don't really understand. But in general, aren't we all lucky that there is a Spitfire Audio?
> 
> I do think that Spitfire has caused some unintended and unnecessary animosity by allowing people to buy BBCSO on Black Friday at the introductory price and get Aperture Strings. It is hardly fair to the early adopters who put their faith in Spitfire and coughed up the cash. It is kind of a slap in the face. Once the Black Friday sale is complete, it will be very interesting to see how this is handled.


Yes this is sad, is it indeed the case that Aperture Strings comes both with the BBCSO??


----------



## jaketanner

As more and more demos come out solely using the BBC SO...I am finding that the cohesiveness truly comes through. It pays to have one solid orchestra, rather than piecing it together. Whether the library itself is faulty or not, the sound it produces as a whole, is great. Makes me want to complete other libraries I have for cohesiveness now.


----------



## animatione

Dear community, please move it to the right place if this is not the right one. I am having problems with Spitfire Libraries and here I am trying with the BBC. I am using the main legato ext patch, trying to play even notes, then I do quantize them (If I do not it is impossible to play evenly) - I was also trying to change to staccato and it is the same. I was trying to use the CC18 and no luck. I want to play even notes, I am sending you the mp3 what I am getting. I am also sending you the Logic file with 2 tracks, the first one is the quantized one. Please help me as I do not know how to work properly.


----------



## CT

OK NEVER MIND


----------



## mralmostpopular

miket said:


> With all the holiday traveling, I've been away from my music stuff for quite a while now and my brain is trying to cope.
> 
> It occurred to me that I have a few custom EXS24 instruments that I made by warping samples, in the spirit of eDNA and Omnisphere. It also occured to me that instead of dithering about getting Omnisphere or some other quasi-organic textural toolkit, I should just roll some more of my own.
> 
> To that end, I'm going to start building a collection of warped sounds based on BBCSO (and probably some EWC). eDNA: BBCSO edition. If I actually follow through, and they don't suck, and it's cool with Spitfire, I'll share them maybe?



Ooh. That sounds cool. I can see Spitfire possibly being a little grumpy about sharing something based on BBCSO, but if they’re ok with it, definitely share them.


----------



## Jett Hitt

miket said:


> OK NEVER MIND


So I'm guessing the Spitfire legal team has already been in contact?


----------



## Daniel Stenning

Those with VEP 7 and BBC SO - have any of you tried or considered using the DRY close mic versions with the reverb plugins, effects and acoustic "SYNCRON-ised impulses one gets with VEP7?

seems it might add a new sonic element or "best of both worlds"... for those who'd like to hear their BBC SO in a different space.


----------



## ed buller

Jaap said:


> For the ones that find this usefull information. I created a template in VEP with all the basic articulations loaded and it saved me 17 GB... My Cubase project with instruments tracks started to take 54 GB, looked less at first, but slowly grew. In VEP7 the exact same articulations take only 37 GB



are you on windows ? and which VEP ?

Thanks

e


----------



## Jaap

ed buller said:


> are you on windows ? and which VEP ?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> e



Yes Windows 10 and VEP 7 (latest version)


----------



## ed buller

ok..i'm stil 7 and VEP 6 and it can't find spitfire BBCso

e


----------



## Jaap

Ah that is a bummer!


----------



## Jett Hitt

I am curious about how folks are using expression and dynamics with BBCSO. When I watch @christianhenson using his Palette Gear, he seems to be using them in parallel, whereas in most libraries I would just be using expression or modulation, depending upon the library. I am wondering about tying the two together so that they both work off of the same fader. Does this seem plausible? That seems to be the same effect as just moving two faders at the same time. (Yes I suppose some subtly will be lost, but it seems minimal.) Thoughts?


----------



## ridgero

hittjett said:


> I am curious about how folks are using expression and dynamics with BBCSO. When I watch @christianhenson using his Palette Gear, he seems to be using them in parallel, whereas in most libraries I would just be using expression or modulation, depending upon the library. I am wondering about tying the two together so that they both work off of the same fader. Does this seem plausible? That seems to be the same effect as just moving two faders at the same time. (Yes I suppose some subtly will be lost, but it seems minimal.) Thoughts?



It’s Dynamics & Vibrato


----------



## Paul Cardon

ridgero said:


> It’s Dynamics & Vibrato


Actually I'm pretty sure they often use CC1 and CC11 (Dynamics and expression) in combination. Spitfire doesn't program their samples to go silent at a value of 0 on CC1, so extra control on CC11 gives you that ability plus finer volume control across the range. A bit weird, but Spitfire has never done it differently. I've always got CC1 and CC11 as my first two faders on my control surface because of it.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Paul Cardon said:


> Actually I'm pretty sure they often use CC1 and CC11 (Dynamics and expression) in combination.



This is certainly what I have seen. I, too, assign the the first two faders on my controller, but I am wanting to use my expression pedal instead. Perhaps Christian is doing some two finger ninja move, but it appears like they are mostly just moving in parallel. I can imagine that moving them independently with two fingers would be possible with Palette Gear, but no way this works with my crappy little fader board. Hence the reason I asked about tying the two together.


----------



## Billy Palmer

Could I store some of my existing non-spitfire sample libraries on a BBCSO SSD?

I've been out the loop for a while on this thread (sorry if the topic has been covered like 50 times already)!


----------



## Paul Cardon

William Palmer said:


> Could I store some of my existing non-spitfire sample libraries on a BBCSO SSD?
> 
> I've been out the loop for a while on this thread (sorry if the topic has been covered like 50 times already)!


It's just a storage device, so I see no reason why not!


----------



## mralmostpopular

William Palmer said:


> Could I store some of my existing non-spitfire sample libraries on a BBCSO SSD?
> 
> I've been out the loop for a while on this thread (sorry if the topic has been covered like 50 times already)!



Yes, you can. Just keep in mind that if/when they update the library, you may need some of that space. Don’t completely fill up the drive.


----------



## Zedcars

mralmostpopular said:


> Yes, you can. Just keep in mind that if/when they update the library, you may need some of that space. Don’t completely fill up the drive.


That’s exactly why I’m not filling it up. I think there are more goodies on the way like a bass flute and Joanna.


----------



## gpax

Zedcars said:


> That’s exactly why I’m not filling it up. I think there are more goodies on the way like a bass flute and Joanna.


I had to reread your post, as I somehow got it in my head you were implying 400 Gb of goodies yet to come, lol. Caffeine. Hard to now how much room to spare, but there is certainly ample unused room to use, still.


----------



## Jaap

I don't know if more people got this little problem, but when I hit record and use a keyswitch the reverb is always triggered fully and I have to put it down again and then it's ok, but it is quite annoying to do that. Any ideas?
This is in Cubase btw and with use of expression maps.


----------



## madfloyd

Zedcars said:


> That’s exactly why I’m not filling it up. I think there are more goodies on the way like a bass flute and Joanna.



Joanna?


----------



## Jett Hitt

Jaap said:


> I don't know if more people got this little problem, but when I hit record and use a keyswitch the reverb is always triggered fully and I have to put it down again and then it's ok, but it is quite annoying to do that. Any ideas?
> This is in Cubase btw and with use of expression maps.


I haven't noticed this problem in Logic, but you might try setting CC19 to 0 on all of your tracks.


----------



## Denkii

madfloyd said:


> Joanna?


Newsom?


----------



## Jaap

hittjett said:


> I haven't noticed this problem in Logic, but you might try setting CC19 to 0 on all of your tracks.



Yeah started doing that indeed. Cheers!


----------



## Alex Fraser

madfloyd said:


> Joanna?


Cockney rhyming slang for Piano. (Say it in a London accent.)


----------



## Fleer

Anyone else running BBCSO on a new 16” MacBook Pro?


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> Cockney rhyming slang for Piano. (Say it in a London accent.)



As can be heard right near the end of Fodderstompf on the first Public Image Limited album: “Go on John, tickle the old Joanna”


----------



## Fleer

Ahhh, Fodderstompf, my favorite PIL song!


----------



## redlester

Fleer said:


> Ahhh, Fodderstompf, my favorite PIL song!



I love that track, yes, but for me their greatest moment was their first single. John Lydon's greatest achievement lyrically, added to that incredible Jah Wobble bass line and Keith Levine's wonderful guitar which, if I allow myself to be kind of synaesthetic for a moment, sounds like sheets of glass coming out of the speakers. Absolute masterpiece.

Oh and that incredible OGWT appearance doing Poptones and Careering, cue Annie Nightingale "That is the most powerful performance I've ever seen on Whistle Test"...

I might be straying off the subject a bit, forgive me. But the thread is a bit slow now the chocolate chat has stopped.


----------



## vdk-john

Just saw spitfire released an update for HZ Strings. Hopefully it addresses some of the things people mentioned in this thread (I guess that could be a good sign also for BBC SO)


----------



## John R Wilson

vdk-john said:


> Just saw spitfire released an update for HZ Strings. Hopefully it addresses some of the things people mentioned in this thread (I guess that could be a good sign also for BBC SO)



Hopefully it is a good sign for their plans for the BBCSO. The update for hans zimmer strings certainly looks good and if they have done this for hans zimmer strings then hopefully they are planning on doing similar for the BBCSO


----------



## prodigalson

Fleer said:


> Anyone else running BBCSO on a new 16” MacBook Pro?



Yep, works like a dream so far. 8-core i9 with 64gb RAM


----------



## N.Caffrey

prodigalson said:


> Yep, works like a dream so far. 8-core i9 with 64gb RAM


my next macbook! Mine is a 2013 retina. Crazy how well it runs after almost 7 years, but that 16" seems future proof enough


----------



## 5Lives

prodigalson said:


> Yep, works like a dream so far. 8-core i9 with 64gb RAM



Do you run an external monitor with it? How’s the throttling performance once the CPU is taxed?


----------



## Jett Hitt

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Hopefully it is a good sign for their plans for the BBCSO. The update for hans zimmer strings certainly looks good and if they have done this for hans zimmer strings then hopefully they are planning on doing similar for the BBCSO



I very much hope that this is an indication of Spitfire's path forward with BBCSO and other existing libraries. They did just do a similar free update to Solo Strings, so maybe this is a pattern. It is awesome to see them improving older libraries rather than just pushing on to the next new one. 

What worries me the most is that Maida Vale is slated for destruction. Doubt there'll be many improvements after that.


----------



## Iostream

hittjett said:


> What worries me the most is that Maida Vale is slated for destruction. Doubt there'll be many improvements after that.



Not all improvements require getting new samples.


----------



## Loïc D

N.Caffrey said:


> my next macbook! Mine is a 2013 retina. Crazy how well it runs after almost 7 years, but that 16" seems future proof enough



Same setup & project here.
I must say that my MBP still behaves remarkably well.
Only 16GB is too little for my orchestral projects right now.
Other than this (recording / mixing / etc.) it's perfect.


----------



## Fleer

prodigalson said:


> Yep, works like a dream so far. 8-core i9 with 64gb RAM


Thanks. Wondering if 32gb RAM would suffice for smaller projects (BBCSO strings and piano).


----------



## mralmostpopular

Fleer said:


> Thanks. Wondering if 32gb RAM would suffice for smaller projects (BBCSO strings and piano).



I’m using the full orchestra on 32GB, with spill mics. You should be fine.


----------



## newman

N.Caffrey said:


> my next macbook! Mine is a 2013 retina. Crazy how well it runs after almost 7 years, but that 16" seems future proof enough


Apple produced some bulletproof laptops c.2012-2013. With a speedy new SSD and maxed out RAM many are still fine for daily use and more.


----------



## Fleer

True, that’s the one I’m still using, a 2012 MBP 15” 2.6GHz 16gb RAM and 512gb SSD. But I should upgrade now.


----------



## jbuhler

newman said:


> Apple produced some bulletproof laptops c.2012-2013. With a speedy new SSD and maxed out RAM many are still fine for daily use and more.


My mid-2012 15" MacBook Pro i7, 2.7GHz is still the laptop that I use for teaching and almost all my ordinary computer tasks. It's the last of the non-retinas (though it has user upgradeable RAM and SATA internal drive (long since upgraded with an SSD) and the DVD drive). It's still a perfectly serviceable machine and indeed until the latest round of Apple laptops came out I saw nothing from Apple that would have offered a significant improvement and many things that would have been deprecated on the newer machines. The only issues I'm having with it now (knock on virtual wood), is the headphone jack and one of the two USB3 ports are getting a bit wonky and so I need to be a bit careful inserting things into it. I don't use it for music production any longer, but 16GB of RAM was sufficient for almost any task other than working with large sample libraries and the CPU could handle a reasonable number of plug-ins/synths back when I used it that way. I still do quite a lot of rudimentary video editing on it. It's just been a very good machine, and even though the current laptops do look good and now seem like they will overall deliver an improvement in performance, I still would prefer to stick with this machine.

ETA: I should point out this machine goes into my bag every day, and I travel with it all the time as well, so it has proved to be a very rugged machine as well.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Maybe of some use? Found this playlist on Soundcloud earlier where one enterprising and helpful person has complied 70 or so tracks using the BBCSO.
(I'll confess, I was trying to track down @miket's track as I fancied another listen...)


----------



## Brasart

newman said:


> Apple produced some bulletproof laptops c.2012-2013. With a speedy new SSD and maxed out RAM many are still fine for daily use and more.



Same here, still rocking a mid-2012 13" Macbook Pro on the side, had RAM & SSD upgrades and works like a charm — it'll soon be in need of a new battery though!


----------



## jbuhler

Brasart said:


> Same here, still rocking a mid-2012 13" Macbook Pro on the side, had a RAM & SSD upgrade and works like a charm — it'll soon be in need of a new battery though!


Even my battery is still going reasonably strong!


----------



## CT

Alex Fraser said:


> I'll confess, I was trying to track down @miket's track as I fancied another listen...


----------



## Jaap

Alex Fraser said:


> I'll confess, I was trying to track down @miket's track as I fancied another listen



Yeah it is a great piece. His piece and knowing Michael his writing a bit, was for me the final step to get BBC SO


----------



## apollinaire

My BBCSO /SSD should be arriving next week (very excited). My MBP is a late 2013 w 16gigs of RAM (non-upgradable - I think?). I plan to write over the Holidays using BBCSO; are there any tips for setting up a streamlined template with the BBCSO that will enable me to compose modestly? I apologize in advance if this has been answered before in this (long) thread.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

apollinaire said:


> My BBCSO /SSD should be arriving next week (very excited). My MBP is a late 2013 w 16gigs of RAM (non-upgradable - I think?). I plan to write over the Holidays using BBCSO; are there any tips for setting up a streamlined template with the BBCSO that will enable me to compose modestly? I apologize in advance if this has been answered before in this (long) thread.



I have the same laptop if it's the 15" i7. I run BBCSO on it no problem. You can load a lot of instrument, the key is to select the instrument you want (within a single instance), and trash all of the other instruments. It's kind of goofy, but when you load a specific instrument (ie; Violins), it loads up every articulation for that instrument. If you do it like I mentioned, you'll save a HUGE amount of Ram. I can load nearly every single instrument this way, and it only uses around 10GB.


----------



## apollinaire

Wolfie2112 said:


> I have the same laptop if it's the 15" i7. I run BBCSO on it no problem. You can load a lot of instrument, the key is to select the instrument you want (within a single instance), and trash all of the other instruments. It's kind of goofy, but when you load a specific instrument (ie; Violins), it loads up every articulation for that instrument. If you do it like I mentioned, you'll save a HUGE amount of Ram. I can load nearly every single instrument this way, and it only uses around 10GB.


Thanks, Wolfie! I'll do this in the meantime, until early next year, when i will most likely pick up the brand new 16" MBP. The specs on it look killer.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

At the Spitfire Audio Day last week I attended, it was heavily hinted to me that there's more content on the way. I guess we already knew that from the get-go, but....rejoice?


----------



## alfred tapscott

hittjett said:


> This is certainly what I have seen. I, too, assign the the first two faders on my controller, but I am wanting to use my expression pedal instead. Perhaps Christian is doing some two finger ninja move, but it appears like they are mostly just moving in parallel. I can imagine that moving them independently with two fingers would be possible with Palette Gear, but no way this works with my crappy little fader board. Hence the reason I asked about tying the two together.


This is kind something that I saw everybody would do while working at remote control. You get used to writing cc11 with one finger and cc1 with the other. That's cause you usually want more dynamic change that what cc1 will provide, so combining both you can reach the soft and louder parts you'll want, despite theoretically cc1 should give all the dynamic rsnge of the instrument, If you get what I mean


----------



## bak3r

animatione said:


> Yes this is sad, is it indeed the case that Aperture Strings comes both with the BBCSO??





hittjett said:


> When I see a reply like this, I am reminded of why I actually follow Spitfire, as opposed to just using their libraries. Both Paul and Christian regularly invite us into their studios, and we feel like we know them. And let's face it, it's almost impossible to not like them. Perhaps because of this perceived relationship with them, some people seem to feel like they have been personally affronted or hoodwinked when something isn't quite the way they think it should be. This has resulted in some rather hateful, nasty comments. I myself am guilty of whipping out a post without fully considering the full impact of the statement. I think everyone does this occasionally. I understand the outrage when you've spent a lot of money for something that doesn't work, but it was clear from the beginning that Spitfire was going to make it work. Until I came to understand just how many configurations there were on the Windows side, I was pretty annoyed myself, and I am a mac user. It had all the appearance of the type of corporate screwing that we've all become accustomed to. And now it is fixed, and we all have a great library. It still needs some work. I find the occasional out of tune note, and the legato on Violin 1 makes Logic go bonkers for reasons that I don't really understand. But in general, aren't we all lucky that there is a Spitfire Audio?
> 
> I do think that Spitfire has caused some unintended and unnecessary animosity by allowing people to buy BBCSO on Black Friday at the introductory price and get Aperture Strings. It is hardly fair to the early adopters who put their faith in Spitfire and coughed up the cash. It is kind of a slap in the face. Once the Black Friday sale is complete, it will be very interesting to see how this is handled.



I'm trying to follow this thread, as I am an early adopter of the BBCSO too. Does anybody know, how spitfire will handle this Aperture String thread? As mentioned above, we early adopters shouldn't be disadvantaged.

Best Max


----------



## CT

I don't want it. They better not try forcing it on me.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

bak3r said:


> I'm trying to follow this thread, as I am an early adopter of the BBCSO too. Does anybody know, how spitfire will handle this Aperture String thread? As mentioned above, we early adopters shouldn't be disadvantaged.
> 
> Best Max



It's water under the bridge.


----------



## vdk-john

Wolfie2112 said:


> It's water under the bridge.



Well it's probably less on topic than chocolate in this thread and we can surely sail away.

After reading about aperture strings I decided not to check it out and to completely ignore anything from spitfire during the black Friday sale. Not because I was angry at them or anything, I literally didn't want to know nor play that game.

Now I just checked out the walkthrough video and I can say two things:

1) don't feel like I missed out (it's great value for people who got it for free but not something I'd personally use)
2) reading the comments on that video opinions seem quite homogeneous

So yeah water under the bridge and hopefully next time they will come up with something different because I like their products and passion and this isn't doing them justice to my eyes.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

vdk-john said:


> After reading about aperture strings I decided not to check it out and to completely ignore anything from spitfire during the black Friday sale. Not because I was angry at them or anything, I literally didn't want to know nor play that game.



Me too.....except I peeked and ended up buying The Ton. It was too good to pass up!


----------



## dzilizzi

Wolfie2112 said:


> Me too.....except I peeked and ended up buying The Ton. It was too good to pass up!


The Ton is always woth getting.


----------



## redlester

apollinaire said:


> My BBCSO /SSD should be arriving next week (very excited). My MBP is a late 2013 w 16gigs of RAM (non-upgradable - I think?). I plan to write over the Holidays using BBCSO; are there any tips for setting up a streamlined template with the BBCSO that will enable me to compose modestly? I apologize in advance if this has been answered before in this (long) thread.



Will you be using it with Logic? Go to The Page and download/watch the video on Christians “hybrid” template. It opens up with all instances unloaded via dynamic plugin loading, and with the presets already stripped down to save memory once they are switched on. Works a treat with my 16GB Mac Mini.


----------



## bak3r

vdk-john said:


> Well it's probably less on topic than chocolate in this thread and we can surely sail away.
> 
> After reading about aperture strings I decided not to check it out and to completely ignore anything from spitfire during the black Friday sale. Not because I was angry at them or anything, I literally didn't want to know nor play that game.
> 
> Now I just checked out the walkthrough video and I can say two things:
> 
> 1) don't feel like I missed out (it's great value for people who got it for free but not something I'd personally use)
> 2) reading the comments on that video opinions seem quite homogeneous
> 
> So yeah water under the bridge and hopefully next time they will come up with something different because I like their products and passion and this isn't doing them justice to my eyes.


Well i like spitfires libraries too, but actually I didn't spend any money on the BF sale because I was angry about that too. 
Actually I thought while buying BBCSO on presale, that this would be the best option to show spitfire that I (we) have trust in their products. Also they have mentioned that the BF Sale will be the same intro price, so therefore wasn't any advantage to wait till BF. But in the end I should have been waiting for the BF sale because there would have been the opertunity to get a (partly) new library. 

Next time I won't buy any products near BF - lesson learned!


By the way: is there any chance to use the UACC? Normally I am used to use CC messages with lemur to switch articulations


----------



## Jaap

I am starting to get confused by the RAM usage of BBC SO in Cubase. I ran it first as instrument track in Cubase, then experimented with using VEP which seems to be a bit less on the RAM side, but then I started to notice that the task manager in W10 is saying it uses around 37GB till 45GB RAM while VEP only uses 24GB. 
I then loaded it again without VEP, but this time in Komplete Kontrol instances and the task manager is saying again around 45 GB of RAM is used, but this time it shows that under processes Cubase is only using 16 GB or RAM. There is nothing else using big amounts of RAM.

I never have this with my non BBC SO projects.


----------



## redlester

Jaap said:


> I then loaded it again without VEP, but this time in Komplete Kontrol instances



Neither BBC SO nor HZ Strings are showing up in Komplete Kontrol for me. Have asked Spitfire about this. BBC SO was showing up until I think the latest update.


----------



## Jaap

redlester said:


> Neither BBC SO nor HZ Strings are showing up in Komplete Kontrol for me. Have asked Spitfire about this. BBC SO was showing up until I think the latest update.



It shows here in the latest version. Have updated it yesterday. Hope that gets sorted for you then!


----------



## Banquet

Brasart said:


> Same here, still rocking a mid-2012 13" Macbook Pro on the side, had RAM & SSD upgrades and works like a charm — it'll soon be in need of a new battery though!



How did you upgrade the RAM? I've been told it's soldered in and no option to put more in... I have a late 2013 Macbook Pro with 8 gb and would LOVE to get some more RAM in!


----------



## redlester

Jaap said:


> It shows here in the latest version. Have updated it yesterday. Hope that gets sorted for you then!



Am on the latest version of everything, with all libraries optimised. Nothing doing in KK.

Very strange.


----------



## Brasart

Banquet said:


> How did you upgrade the RAM? I've been told it's soldered in and no option to put more in... I have a late 2013 Macbook Pro with 8 gb and would LOVE to get some more RAM in!



I'm not familiar with every Macbook Pro model, but AFAIK RAM has always been upgradable manually up to 2015 models (GPU/CPU are what are soldered to the motherboard) — it's pretty easy to do too, look up your model in youtube/google and you'll see if you're able to change it yourself!


----------



## ridgero

Brasart said:


> I'm not familiar with every Macbook Pro model, but AFAIK RAM has always been upgradable manually up to 2015 models (GPU/CPU are what are soldered to the motherboard) — it's pretty easy to do too, look up your model in youtube/google and you'll see if you're able to change it yourself!


No

The Non-Retina 2012 was the last Macbook with upgradable RAM.


----------



## redlester

This is the best site I’ve found for advice on what can/cannot be user upgraded on any model of Mac. 
https://everymac.com/


----------



## apollinaire

redlester said:


> Will you be using it with Logic? Go to The Page and download/watch the video on Christians “hybrid” template. It opens up with all instances unloaded via dynamic plugin loading, and with the presets already stripped down to save memory once they are switched on. Works a treat with my 16GB Mac Mini.



Thanks, Redlester. I do use Logic and have been meaning to check out Christian's templates. Glad to know there is an optimized template for 16gb Macs. Cheers!


----------



## AllanH

Jaap said:


> I am starting to get confused by the RAM usage of BBC SO in Cubase. I ran it first as instrument track in Cubase, then experimented with using VEP which seems to be a bit less on the RAM side, but then I started to notice that the task manager in W10 is saying it uses around 37GB till 45GB RAM while VEP only uses 24GB.
> I then loaded it again without VEP, but this time in Komplete Kontrol instances and the task manager is saying again around 45 GB of RAM is used, but this time it shows that under processes Cubase is only using 16 GB or RAM. There is nothing else using big amounts of RAM.
> 
> I never have this with my non BBC SO projects.



I've experienced the same (without VEP) and have been working with Spitfire support over the last several weeks to test/validate as they get closer to resolving. My guess is that there is a buffer allocation outside the player that takes a lot a memory. The buffer does not fully get freed as articulations are load and unloaded, so it creeps a bit. It got a lot better with 1.0.7.

Make sure that memory mapping is turned off in the BBCSO player.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Banquet said:


> How did you upgrade the RAM? I've been told it's soldered in and no option to put more in... I have a late 2013 Macbook Pro with 8 gb and would LOVE to get some more RAM in!



The RAM in your laptop is soldered.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

staypuft said:


> Anyone considering buying this library should take BBCSO for what it is today, not tomorrow: great room, great players, unprecedented hype, subpar software, sloppy editing.



Blah, blah, blah. Speak for yourself, BBCSO is everything I expected, and I do not have these issues. Didn’t you move on already?


----------



## Brasart

ridgero said:


> No
> 
> The Non-Retina 2012 was the last Macbook with upgradable RAM.



Ah well that's too bad, makes me want to buy another mid-2012 when I'll update my laptop :-D


----------



## Jaap

AllanH said:


> I've experienced the same (without VEP) and have been working with Spitfire support over the last several weeks to test/validate as they get closer to resolving. My guess is that there is a buffer allocation outside the player that takes a lot a memory. The buffer does not fully get freed as articulations are load and unloaded, so it creeps a bit. It got a lot better with 1.0.7.
> 
> Make sure that memory mapping is turned off in the BBCSO player.



Thanks, will check that out. I am on 1.07 and if it continues I will also reach out to Spitfire for support.


----------



## Lcas

Wolfie2112 said:


> I have the same laptop if it's the 15" i7. I run BBCSO on it no problem. You can load a lot of instrument, the key is to select the instrument you want (within a single instance), and trash all of the other instruments. It's kind of goofy, but when you load a specific instrument (ie; Violins), it loads up every articulation for that instrument. If you do it like I mentioned, you'll save a HUGE amount of Ram. I can load nearly every single instrument this way, and it only uses around 10GB.


Good to know there's nothing cpu-wise mentioned with performance, still just ram stuff like always.

If it runs fine on a i7, something between 4750 and 4960, inside of a laptop no less, a 2500k should be fine.

When I saw hexacore i7 as recommended I started to wonder. Seems more like that just happened to be what they're using over there.

Also, soldered ram? Just ditch that company already. Whatever perceived convenience you're sticking around for is really not an issue when you can just make a hackintosh


----------



## borisb2

paulthomson said:


> you could check out the intro to Star Wars - not very tidy cause I did it super quick in about an hour! But the link is below my YT..



👍👍
Don‘t have BBCSO (don‘t need it at this point), but these are really nice scoring tips - should have gotten more attention here


----------



## Zedcars

Prob:

When I first load my project and wait for the samples to load, I always get some of the samples failing to playback. What I have to do, is play the project through first with glitches and missing samples and then subsequent plays are glitch-free. It’s as if it needs to load the cache first, but needs prompting to do so via MIDI.

Just wondering if anyone else has this issue?

I’m on macOS 10.14.6, Cubase 10.


----------



## 5Lives

Zedcars said:


> Prob:
> 
> When I first load my project and wait for the samples to load, I always get some of the samples failing to playback. What I have to do, is play the project through first with glitches and missing samples and then subsequent plays are glitch-free. It’s as if it needs to load the cache first, but needs prompting to do so via MIDI.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone else has this issue?
> 
> I’m on macOS 10.14.6, Cubase 10.



Are you trying to play the project prior to the instruments being fully loaded? Sounds like you’re trying to play samples that haven’t been loaded yet. Kontakt does this as well from time to time


----------



## Zedcars

5Lives said:


> Are you trying to play the project prior to the instruments being fully loaded? Sounds like you’re trying to play samples that haven’t been loaded yet. Kontakt does this as well from time to time


No. I always make sure the little red flashing light has turned green and the RAM usage has stopped climbing.


----------



## mralmostpopular

Zedcars said:


> Prob:
> 
> When I first load my project and wait for the samples to load, I always get some of the samples failing to playback. What I have to do, is play the project through first with glitches and missing samples and then subsequent plays are glitch-free. It’s as if it needs to load the cache first, but needs prompting to do so via MIDI.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone else has this issue?
> 
> I’m on macOS 10.14.6, Cubase 10.



Have you opened the plug-in to see if the little load light is blinking? On big projects I have to continue to let it load for a minute or two after the project loads. Could it be that i’s just taking time to load and finishes by the time you get to the end of the project?


----------



## Zedcars

mralmostpopular said:


> Have you opened the plug-in to see if the little load light is blinking? On big projects I have to continue to let it load for a minute or two after the project loads. Could it be that i’s just taking time to load and finishes by the time you get to the end of the project?


Not unless that status light is lying to me. Yes, I do leave it to load first and once the status loading light thingy has turned green, then I’ll hit play.

My project is nearly 15 minutes long, but I always have to let it play all the way first before the glitching stops.

It would make sense if the load light was still flashing, but I make a point of checking its status before I do anything at all (although the other day I did eat a chocolate bar while it was loading  ).


----------



## mralmostpopular

Zedcars said:


> Not unless that status light is lying to me. Yes, I do leave it to load first and once the status loading light thingy has turned green, then I’ll hit play.
> 
> My project is nearly 15 minutes long, but I always have to let it play all the way first before the glitching stops.
> 
> It would make sense if the load light was still flashing, but I make a point of checking its status before I do anything at all (although the other day I did eat a chocolate bar while it was loading  ).



That’s very odd. I’m definitely not experiencing that with Logic. You might want to send a note to support.


----------



## Zedcars

Also, does anyone else find it strange that the marcato patches don’t respond to note off messages? Mine insist on playing for the length of the sample. This makes them mostly unusable for me. Probably should open a ticket about that, as well as the other thing. 🤔


----------



## mralmostpopular

Zedcars said:


> Also, does anyone else find it strange that the marcato patches don’t respond to note off messages? Mine insist on playing for the length of the sample. This makes them mostly unusable for me. Probably should open a ticket about that, as well as the other thing. 🤔



I do have an answer for that! In the upper right corner click the “...” and change short notes to “timed”. For some reason they’re not turned on by default.


----------



## Zedcars

mralmostpopular said:


> That’s very odd. I’m definitely not experiencing that with Logic. You might want to send a note to support.


Good to know Logic-land is a happy place. Thanks man, will probably do that.


----------



## Zedcars

mralmostpopular said:


> I do have an answer for that! In the upper right corner click the “...” and change short notes to “timed”. For some reason they’re not turned on by default.


OMG - is that all it is? Blimey O’Reilly - I wish I’d known this yesterday morning as I spent the day working around this problem. Cheers!


----------



## mralmostpopular

Zedcars said:


> OMG - is that all it is? Blimey O’Reilly - I wish I’d known this yesterday morning as I spend the day working around this problem. Cheers!



Should be it. No clue why it’s off by default, and why that particular setting is hidden away in a menu you probably didn’t even notice existed because it‘s three tiny dots.

And don’t feel bad. I just realized tonight that the harp gliss has a variation setting. I kept wondering why they only sampled a minor gliss. My biggest complaint about the library is that so many things are hidden in menus when there so much blank space. And the user manual doesn’t provide much information. It’s really not that big a deal, but I do hope they implement a more advanced view some have suggested sometime in the future,


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Prob:
> 
> When I first load my project and wait for the samples to load, I always get some of the samples failing to playback. What I have to do, is play the project through first with glitches and missing samples and then subsequent plays are glitch-free. It’s as if it needs to load the cache first, but needs prompting to do so via MIDI.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone else has this issue?
> 
> I’m on macOS 10.14.6, Cubase 10.



I was experiencing this in Logic on earlier versions of the plugin, but the latest revision and the Optimise feature seems to have helped in that respect.


----------



## Jaap

mralmostpopular said:


> I do have an answer for that! In the upper right corner click the “...” and change short notes to “timed”. For some reason they’re not turned on by default.



Thank you very much for that!


----------



## gussunkri

I can’t shake the feeling that someone at Spitfire made a mistake with respect to the default state of the timed control. I have a feeling that it was timed as default in Paul’s walkthrough.


----------



## hannawald5

Zedcars said:


> Prob:
> 
> When I first load my project and wait for the samples to load, I always get some of the samples failing to playback. What I have to do, is play the project through first with glitches and missing samples and then subsequent plays are glitch-free. It’s as if it needs to load the cache first, but needs prompting to do so via MIDI.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone else has this issue?
> 
> I’m on macOS 10.14.6, Cubase 10.


I also have the exact same issue on W10, 32gb ram on Cubase 10 and I have also waited for the flashing green/red to finish. It only happens on bigger projects with much Ram being used - not on smaller. 

I think you can start playing it through towards the end of the blinking, however, and get all glitches while it finishes loading instead of waiting all the way to the steady green light.

I have 1.07 with it optimised too.


----------



## Noeticus

I hope Spitfire is still reading this thread.


----------



## synthetic

Zedcars said:


> OMG - is that all it is? Blimey O’Reilly - I wish I’d known this yesterday morning as I spent the day working around this problem. Cheers!



I thought it was
untimed = play the whole sample
timed = play until the beat
off = stop playing when I let go of the keys

I think you want them "off." It's a bit confusing to turn release samples off for normal operation but that's what it means in this context.


----------



## Zedcars

synthetic said:


> I thought it was
> untimed = play the whole sample
> timed = play until the beat
> off = stop playing when I let go of the keys
> 
> I think you want them "off." It's a bit confusing to turn release samples off for normal operation but that's what it means in this context.


Well that would make sense. Except for the fact that they _were_ all off and refused to obey my note off commands. Maybe I need to say please first?


----------



## mralmostpopular

synthetic said:


> I thought it was
> untimed = play the whole sample
> timed = play until the beat
> off = stop playing when I let go of the keys
> 
> I think you want them "off." It's a bit confusing to turn release samples off for normal operation but that's what it means in this context.



I got my info on fixing the issue directly from Spitfire. They don’t work the way you’re describing.

It seems that timed is end on beat, untimed is whenever you let go, and off is the whole sample.


----------



## AndyP

I would like Spitfire to extend the BHTC. Sections for Strings, Woodwinds and Brass.
I like it much better than BBCSO. Of sound and playability.
Both together are in any case better than single but a complete BHTC made in sections knocks BBCSO out of its shoes.
Is my opinion where I can compare both. I use BBCSO as a supplement to BHTC, and that is a huge praise for BHTC.


----------



## D Halgren

AndyP said:


> I would like Spitfire to extend the BHCT. Sections for Strings, Woodwinds and Brass.
> I like it much better than BBCSO. Of sound and playability.
> Both together are in any case better than single but a complete BHCT made in sections knocks BBCSO out of its shoes.
> Is my opinion where I can compare both. I use BBCSO as a supplement to BHCT, and that is a huge praise for BHCT.


Isn't that what the Studio series is?


----------



## JJHLH

AndyP said:


> I would like Spitfire to extend the BHTC. Sections for Strings, Woodwinds and Brass.
> I like it much better than BBCSO. Of sound and playability.
> Both together are in any case better than single but a complete BHTC made in sections knocks BBCSO out of its shoes.
> Is my opinion where I can compare both. I use BBCSO as a supplement to BHTC, and that is a huge praise for BHTC.



BHCT is fantastic. I can’t wait to try it with BBCSO. It sounds like you recommend the combination?


----------



## AndyP

D Halgren said:


> Isn't that what the Studio series is?


I don't know, I don't have it. I'd like to compare them myself. I notice that I prefer the sound of the BHTC and somehow cope better with it.
Maybe someone who has the BHTC and the Studio Series can answer that?


----------



## D Halgren

AndyP said:


> I don't know, I don't have it. I'd like to compare them myself. I notice that I prefer the sound of the BHTC and somehow cope better with it.
> Maybe someone who has the BHTC and the Studio Series can answer that?


I don't have BHCT, but my understanding is that it's the same room.


----------



## AndyP

Excuse me, I always write BHCT and it's called BHTC. It's kind of easier to type on my keyboard.


----------



## AndyP

D Halgren said:


> I don't have BHCT, but my understanding is that it's the same room.


The question is whether it sounds the same and is scripted like BHTC. I can't judge that with the demos on the Spitfire page. But the same room is good.


----------



## JJHLH

D Halgren said:


> I don't have BHCT, but my understanding is that it's the same room.



I think that correct. They were both recorded in the dry room. BHCT has patches where pairs of different instruments were recorded together, unlike the Studio series. The playing may also be slightly more aggressive, or at least recorded that way.


----------



## AndyP

I spent a lot of time liking BBCSO. Somehow it doesn't work yet.
It's a few good things and a few things I don't like.
I haven't done that hard with a library yet, and it has less to do with the sound than with the playability and scripting.
Maybe the Studio series is the better choice for me. 
BHTC was love at first click.


----------



## jamwerks

I checked-out on this thread more than a hundred pages ago, maybe this has been discussed and/or answered ? 

At the announcement of the BBC library, it was said many times "this is just the beginning", suggesting to me that there will be many more libraries coming from MV and the BBC.

I'm wondering if all the new upcoming libraries will be add-ons to the current BBC library, or new completely stand-alone libraries? For example, will an upcoming BBC WW library be an add-on to the current BBC, providing "missing" instruments and arts, or will it be again Flute 1, Oboe 1..., a complete new WW library?

I sill haven't purchased BBC, but fairly sure I'd want the new dedicated libraries that follow, and wondering if I'll wish I had bought the original BBC once those others come out?

The JKLB announcement makes me wonder if SF will respond with a similar library from MV (with 5 velocity layers), or will SF do an add-on to the original BBC with say "mutes", additional instruments, or arts?


----------



## Alex Fraser

jamwerks said:


> I checked-out on this thread more than a hundred pages ago, maybe this has been discussed and/or answered ?
> 
> At the announcement of the BBC library, it was said many times "this is just the beginning", suggesting to me that there will be many more libraries coming from MV and the BBC.
> 
> I'm wondering if all the new upcoming libraries will be add-ons to the current BBC library, or new completely stand-alone libraries? For example, will an upcoming BBC WW library be an add-on to the current BBC, providing "missing" instruments and arts, or will it be again Flute 1, Oboe 1..., a complete new WW library?
> 
> I sill haven't purchased BBC, but fairly sure I'd want the new dedicated libraries that follow, and wondering if I'll wish I had bought the original BBC once those others come out?
> 
> The JKLB announcement makes me wonder if SF will respond with a similar library from MV (with 5 velocity layers), or will SF do an add-on to the original BBC with say "mutes", additional instruments, or arts?


If my ageing memory serves me correctly, so far the position is:

Free additions coming to BBCSO are a bass flute and piano. Maybe some other "small" additions.
SF have implied that the library is "all in" and won't have expansions. This is to keep with the universal sharing idea. Also stated the library was explicitly designed to sit under the 1K price bracket.
To guess, the "just the beginning" part could mean more Maida Vale libraries, more training resources or further collabs with the BBC. I think BBCSO is a safe bet purchase at the moment.


----------



## Fleer

Street Quality (and credibility).


----------



## Noeticus

Fleer said:


> Street Quality (and credibility).




No, no, no... It's "Quality Street".

Yum.


----------



## apollinaire

I just received my BBCSO/SSD and I am off to a rough start it seems. The included video shows the authorizing/installation process as being rather quick. For me, the SF app crashed 4Xs and took about almost 40 minutes to complete, but then crashed before the end. I re-opened the app and it's now "optimizing", which looks like it will take another 30-40 minutes. Does all of this sound normal or is it just my bad luck? Sorry if that has been answered earlier in the thread.


----------



## 5Lives

apollinaire said:


> I just received my BBCSO/SSD and I am off to a rough start it seems. The included video shows the authorizing/installation process as being rather quick. For me, the SF app crashed 4Xs and took about almost 40 minutes to complete, but then crashed before the end. I re-opened the app and it's now "optimizing", which looks like it will take another 30-40 minutes. Does all of this sound normal or is it just my bad luck? Sorry if that has been answered earlier in the thread.



My installation was very quick and painless (did have to download the latest version of the player). I’m on Mac. Maybe reach out to SF support - they’ll be able to assist faster than here.


----------



## apollinaire

5Lives said:


> My installation was very quick and painless (did have to download the latest version of the player). I’m on Mac. Maybe reach out to SF support - they’ll be able to assist faster than here.



I am on a Mac as well and downloaded the latest version of the app. Ugh...


----------



## mralmostpopular

apollinaire said:


> I am on a Mac as well and downloaded the latest version of the app. Ugh...



My app didn’t crash, but it did take a little bit to install. It took about 45 minutes to optimize. As long as it finishes you should be fine.


----------



## apollinaire

Got it working on my MBP mobile rig. For use in my main Mac, do you only install the plug-in on that computer? The manual didn’t seem clear to me on how to setup the BBCSO/SSD on a second computer.


----------



## Jaap

I contacted Spitfire last week, but have not heard back, but this memory thing is getting somehow more problematic. It looked ok in the first days, but now I experience that the memory just keeps rising in the task manager, while funny enough the memory usage of Cubase actually decreases. Had a few times that it caused Cubase to stop working.

Reported also earlier a problem with that the reverb gets triggered (also reported that to Spitfire) and I could nail that down to using the transport buttons on my Komplete Kontrol MKII keyboard. As soon as I hit record, start or stop it triggers the reverb fully, even if I have a midi lane with cc19 on 0.


----------



## brenneisen

Jaap said:


> As soon as I hit record, start or stop it triggers the reverb fully, even if I have a midi lane with cc19 on 0.



you're not the first to report problems with midi chasing

insert a different value before zero to wake SF PLAY¹ up


¹ that's very appropriate given its current state and EW early days, eh?


----------



## dcoscina

The more I work with this library the more I dig it. My thoughts are this: it didn’t dazzle right out of the box the way some other libraries do. However, when applying traditional orchestral writing to the samples, the pay off is rather good. Yes, there are a few things I’d also like addresses in an update but generally I find it a terrific compositional tool. The templates for Cubase and Logic are worth their weight in gold.


----------



## CT

It really is something. There are a few instruments/articulations I'd love to have added, and yes, the longs/legatos do feel like there should be a tad more dynamic headroom, but these are rather minor gripes. 

It's a liberation to have access to something that's so truly "plug and play," from how comprehensive it is, to the natural positioning, sound, and balance out of the box. We live in lucky times, as composers... at least in this sense.


----------



## dcoscina

It also feels like working with a real orchestra and not some massive session group for film. There are many of us who don’t have access to those resources and I’d hate to think the disconnect between someone’s mock ups with Ark (for example) and hitting the scoring stage with a normal sized group. I can imagine directors saying “why don’t the brass sound as big?”. Well that’s because this is what a normal sized orchestra sounds like. And let’s be clear; BBCSO can get loud, just not stupid loud.

Edit/ I didn’t mean to infer OT only make hyped up libraries. I own quite a few of their stuff and even their a Berlin Brass was criticized for sounding too tame. It’s a sad sign of our times when overdone libraries have become the norm. Then again, I’m around orchestras a fair bit so it gives me perspective.


----------



## CBel27

apollinaire said:


> Got it working on my MBP mobile rig. For use in my main Mac, do you only install the plug-in on that computer? The manual didn’t seem clear to me on how to setup the BBCSO/SSD on a second computer.


I have encountered a similar issue. I bought the SSD with the assumption I'd be able to hot swap between my main and portable rigs, but after speaking with someone on the live chat, they said in order to use the BBCSO on two separate machines you have to make a separate copy for each - BEFORE installing it on any machine from the SSD (in other words, you need a 'clean' copy of the SSD contents before opening the Spitfire App). In my opinion, this completely makes the whole idea of having a portable SSD completely redundant.

So I created a 'clean' copy off the SA SSD onto another external drive, used this copy to install and activate the library on my main rig and it's working fine. I then went to set up the official SA SSD on my mobile rig; everything seemingly was working great until I tried the plugin in Logic. For whatever reason, I am getting no audio output from the plugin. The Spitfire App sees the path to the SSD fine, a part from when I try to optimise the files then it complains it can't find the sample content, even though I've directed it to the SSD.

I now have a support ticket in limbo awaiting a response on my issue as I can't seem to figure out what's going on...


----------



## apollinaire

CBel27 said:


> I have encountered a similar issue. I bought the SSD with the assumption I'd be able to hot swap between my main and portable rigs, but after speaking with someone on the live chat, they said in order to use the BBCSO on two separate machines you have to make a separate copy for each - BEFORE installing it on any machine from the SSD (in other words, you need a 'clean' copy of the SSD contents before opening the Spitfire App). In my opinion, this completely makes the whole idea of having a portable SSD completely redundant.
> 
> So I created a 'clean' copy off the SA SSD onto another external drive, used this copy to install and activate the library on my main rig and it's working fine. I then went to set up the official SA SSD on my mobile rig; everything seemingly was working great until I tried the plugin in Logic. For whatever reason, I am getting no audio output from the plugin. The Spitfire App sees the path to the SSD fine, a part from when I try to optimise the files then it complains it can't find the sample content, even though I've directed it to the SSD.
> 
> I now have a support ticket in limbo awaiting a response on my issue as I can't seem to figure out what's going on...



Thank you for this reply, Chris! Bummer, I was under the impression, as you were, that I would be able to use the same drive for both computer systems. I should've looked into this before I ordered their SSD. Now, I'll have to make room for yet another copy of the Lib. on another drive...sheesh. 

As for your new issue, that sounds odd. Did it work fine before you copied the Lib.?


----------



## holywilly

I really hope Spitfire allow us to locate library content directly from the plugin instead of using the Spitfire library manager app.
It took me a while to install library data onto my second machine.


----------



## mralmostpopular

I've just discovered another "easter egg" noise that slipped through. This one isn't quiet like the opera lady. The release on Horns a4 c3 at high dynamic has a someone shuffling and saying "yep" or something like that. These kinds of notes will definitely be any library, but this one in particular should probably be fixed since it's so prominent.


----------



## PerryD

Sounds like a nearby spit valve.


----------



## CBel27

apollinaire said:


> Thank you for this reply, Chris! Bummer, I was under the impression, as you were, that I would be able to use the same drive for both computer systems. I should've looked into this before I ordered their SSD. Now, I'll have to make room for yet another copy of the Lib. on another drive...sheesh.
> 
> As for your new issue, that sounds odd. Did it work fine before you copied the Lib.?


Yes, they don't make it very clear that this is the case if you want to use it on more than one machine. It kind of detracts from the whole package of it being "#oneorchestra".

It's working fine on my main rig, which is a copy from the SSD. But I'm completely baffled as to why it won't work on my mobile rig with the SSD. I installed the plugin, supposedly authorised all the sections, the plugin load fine in Logic with articulations available to select, but no noise! And I made sure I haven't been an idiot and have the wrong output settings, etc..

So it's either a corrupt path file for the plugin to see the sample content on the SSD, or some kind of authorisation error.

It's certainly been far from a smooth setup to use it on two machines.


----------



## jonvog

I guess this has been asked before, but I couldn’t find anything specific: when stacking multiple articulations (for example a long with a staccato or marcato overlay), is it possible to keyswitch this stack? Or make it at least switchable anyhow? I am on cubase using keyswitches via expression maps.


----------



## jonvog

...another ting: I took the hybrid cubase template as a starting point to develop my own template. So far so good. Now with divisimate popping up, I am wondering if an all-in-one template would be the way to go, it would allow for a far easier routing. @Nextmidi, what is your take on this?
I don’t quite get the cons of an all-in-one template anyway, besides being more ressource demanding, because when enabling a track, you load all the articulations at once. Ok, and the possibility to have different processing on shorts and longs. But then again bbcso is so well balanced, I hardly use any external reverb by now anyway.
so, maybe I should’ve taken the AIO-template as a starting point in the first place. 🤷‍♂️

bottomline: I know there are lots of threads about templates, but is there a place, where hybrid vs AIO gets discussed? if so, please point me to it. I am seriously considering rebuilding my template towards the all in one thing. Any reasons why I shouldn’t do this?


----------



## Fleer

I’m thinking a 16” MacBook Pro with base cpu and graphics wil suffice on 32gb RAM.


----------



## donnyluvd2bowl

mralmostpopular said:


> I've just discovered another "easter egg" noise that slipped through. This one isn't quiet like the opera lady. The release on Horns a4 c3 at high dynamic has a someone shuffling and saying "yep" or something like that. These kinds of notes will definitely be any library, but this one in particular should probably be fixed since it's so prominent.



Unreal. This aggression will not stand, man.


----------



## mralmostpopular

Fleer said:


> I’m thinking a 16” MacBook Pro with base cpu and graphics wil suffice on 32gb RAM.



You’ll probably be a bit happier with an 8-core if you can swing it.


----------



## Fleer

mralmostpopular said:


> You’ll probably be a bit happier with an 8-core if you can swing it.


Thanks. What do you think would be more important, an 8-core cpu, higher graphics or more RAM? Trying to keep total cost within budget ...


----------



## mralmostpopular

Fleer said:


> Thanks. What do you think would be more important, an 8-core cpu, higher graphics or more RAM? Trying to keep total cost within budget ...



More RAM, better processor, graphics card, in that order. A better GPU won’t do much for you when composing.


----------



## Zedcars

jonvog said:


> I guess this has been asked before, but I couldn’t find anything specific: when stacking multiple articulations (for example a long with a staccato or marcato overlay), is it possible to keyswitch this stack? Or make it at least switchable anyhow? I am on cubase using keyswitches via expression maps.


I haven’t found a way to do this yet, other than the uneconomical route of duplicating the track and selecting the additional art. from there. I’m hoping a future update will fix this. Obviously it’s possible to shift-click to select multiple arts. in the plugin (not a viable solution), so it’s strange that you can’t trigger more than one at a time via MIDI.


----------



## galactic orange

I was about to add BBCSO to my wish list, but I’m having trouble logging in to the site. At first the site wouldn’t load and now clicking the account icon doesn’t load the login fields. Is anyone else seeing this?


----------



## Zedcars

galactic orange said:


> I was about to add BBCSO to my wish list, but I’m having trouble logging in to the site. At first the site wouldn’t load and now clicking the account icon doesn’t load the login fields. Is anyone else seeing this?


Initially it didn’t work, but I reloaded the webpage and now it’s ok - I can login and view my wish list. I’m on an iPhone. Maybe the hamster took 40 winks. :emoji_hamster:💤


----------



## jonvog

Zedcars said:


> I haven’t found a way to do this yet, other than the uneconomical route of duplicating the track and selecting the additional art. from there. I’m hoping a future update will fix this. Obviously it’s possible to shift-click to select multiple arts. in the plugin (not a viable solution), so it’s strange that you can’t trigger more than one at a time via MIDI.



Ok, I see. Well, then this probably answers my second question, regarding the pros of having separate tracks for longs and shorts: easier stacking.


----------



## gtrwll

I hate it when life and video games get in the way of composing...well, the former at least. Anyway, here's a new track that I composed this morning (it's afternoon here). Mix1 and Fl.Spiil mics on everything, strings with leader mics added. Piano is The Grandeur.





I think someone mentioned a while back that the mod wheel action on this library is different to others, and it certainly is. I've learnt to be much more careful with it, making small adjustments instead of huge leaps.

I love the triangle of this library. Seriously! Adds that extra bit of magic fairy dust whenever I reach for it...


----------



## 5Lives

Not much new content recently on “The Page”. Hope they plan to continue with that experiment after the holidays - was one of the more interesting draws of BBCSO.


----------



## mralmostpopular

5Lives said:


> Not much new content recently on “The Page”. Hope they plan to continue with that experiment after the holidays - was one of the more interesting draws of BBCSO.



Spitfire seems a bit overwhelmed at the moment.


----------



## Fleer

mralmostpopular said:


> Spitfire seems a bit overwhelmed at the moment.


And rightly so 😊


----------



## Brasart

gtrwll said:


> I hate it when life and video games get in the way of composing...well, the former at least. Anyway, here's a new track that I composed this morning (it's afternoon here). Mix1 and Fl.Spiil mics on everything, strings with leader mics added. Piano is The Grandeur.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think someone mentioned a while back that the mod wheel action on this library is different to others, and it certainly is. I've learnt to be much more careful with it, making small adjustments instead of huge leaps.
> 
> I love the triangle of this library. Seriously! Adds that extra bit of magic fairy dust whenever I reach for it...




Very lovely track, congrats!


----------



## gtrwll

Brasart said:


> Very lovely track, congrats!



Thank you!


----------



## Wayne Neilson

Alex Fraser said:


> If my ageing memory serves me correctly, so far the position is:
> 
> Free additions coming to BBCSO are a bass flute and piano. Maybe some other "small" additions.
> SF have implied that the library is "all in" and won't have expansions. This is to keep with the universal sharing idea. Also stated the library was explicitly designed to sit under the 1K price bracket.
> To guess, the "just the beginning" part could mean more Maida Vale libraries, more training resources or further collabs with the BBC. I think BBCSO is a safe bet purchase at the moment.


Would be great to see Brass mutes to the additions and maybe a Mark Tree? (Currently using SSBP and SJBPerc) in Spitfires Logic BBCSO Hybrid template.


----------



## CT

Yeah, mark tree. And in addition to the alto and/or bass flute, and piano, it would be great to have muted/stopped longs and shorts on brass. Also a bowed articulation for the vibraphone, and harmonics on the harp. With those additions, I'm not sure I'd ever want for much.


----------



## Jaap

gtrwll said:


> I think someone mentioned a while back that the mod wheel action on this library is different to others, and it certainly is. I've learnt to be much more careful with it, making small adjustments instead of huge leaps.



Lovely track Janne! I said it for sure and probably also a few others, but indeed riding that modwheel much more gently then normal, makes a lot of difference indeed!

I posted this track also in the composition section, but for anyone interested in hearing it, here a small piece from me. I started yesterday to orchestrate a music theatre piece that I wrote in 2017 for storyteller, piano and alto flute and here a small interlude  All BBC SO


----------



## Jett Hitt

galactic orange said:


> I was about to add BBCSO to my wish list, but I’m having trouble logging in to the site. At first the site wouldn’t load and now clicking the account icon doesn’t load the login fields. Is anyone else seeing this?


It's 2019--nearly 2020--and these people can't make a website work. It's a pretty cool website when it actually works, but that's seldom. I complained to Techsupport months ago, and they claimed nothing had been reported. When a page actually loads, I often have to reload it two or three times before any of the demos will play. Tonight, I can't even bring it up at all. Who has website problems like this in this day and age?


----------



## AEF

Still waiting on that “giant one articulation per track” template that was promised. 

frankly the template they provide is useless bc of the weird keyswitches. 

one of the big ideas of this library was supposed to be plug and play and it really isnt when you have to completely rework the template to make it functional with standard articulation sets.


----------



## Zedcars

AEF said:


> Still waiting on that “giant one articulation per track” template that was promised.
> 
> frankly the template they provide is useless bc of the weird keyswitches.
> 
> one of the big ideas of this library was supposed to be plug and play and it really isnt when you have to completely rework the template to make it functional with standard articulation sets.


I take your point. But the template is free, and as far as I know, it’s unique for a library creator to provide one. I congratulate them for going this extra mile. And if they promised an art. per track template then I’m sure it will come soon. They’ve been very busy of late.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

hittjett said:


> It's 2019--nearly 2020--and these people can't make a website work. It's a pretty cool website when it actually works, but that's seldom. I complained to Techsupport months ago, and they claimed nothing had been reported. When a page actually loads, I often have to reload it two or three times before any of the demos will play. Tonight, I can't even bring it up at all. Who has website problems like this in this day and age?



Can I ask which browser and operating system you were using?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

SpitfireSupport said:


> Can I ask which browser and operating system you were using?



Actually, I get this as well on my surfing computer...an iMac running 10.13.6.

Also, I often have issue on my iPhone X 13.3


----------



## Alex Fraser

Yeah, I'll pile in here too. I get drop outs and connection issues to the site. Latest Safari. I thought it was just me.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> I take your point. But the template is free, and as far as I know, it’s unique for a library creator to provide one. I congratulate them for going this extra mile. And if they promised an art. per track template then I’m sure it will come soon. They’ve been very busy of late.


Thanks for this, Zedcars. I was going to put in a more grumpy reply. Will you be my PR dept?


----------



## AEF

Here are some mockups using Christof's AMAZING piece "the robber"


----------



## AEF

Here are more edited versions:


----------



## CT

These are really very good! I have a ways to go with achieving this kind of agility.


----------



## AEF

miket said:


> These are really very good! I have a ways to go with achieving this kind of agility.



i used the premade midi file which can be found in the “the robber” thread from around 2016. then some really minor massaging and eq/comp. the hard part was already done for me!


----------



## Jett Hitt

SpitfireSupport said:


> Can I ask which browser and operating system you were using?


Absolutely! I have the problem on my Mac Pro 10.13.6 running Safari 13.0.4 and on my iMac 10.14.6 running either Safari 12.1.2 or Firefox 70.0.1. Additionally I have had the problem on my iPhone XR and my iPad mini (ancient). I have sent screen shots to tech support in the past. Website is working fine as I type this, but last night I couldn't even get a page to load for about an hour. I attached the usual error that I get when a page won't open. There is no error page when the videos and sound files won't play. I just click on them and nothing happens. I then have to hold the option key and reload it (often multiple times) to get the example to play. Once one example will play, the whole page works fine.


----------



## CT

I've frequently had the same problem on my Mac with Safari, but have never run into it on my Android phone.


----------



## redlester

AEF said:


> Still waiting on that “giant one articulation per track” template that was promised.
> 
> frankly the template they provide is useless bc of the weird keyswitches.
> 
> one of the big ideas of this library was supposed to be plug and play and it really isnt when you have to completely rework the template to make it functional with standard articulation sets.



Christian explained a while back the reason for this. The Logic hybrid template they published at time of release had been put together with a beta version of the plugin prior to its final release, one where the key switches had not been set up properly yet. Am guessing this slipped through because Christian doesn't use key switches.

I think this could be sorted be replacing each instance of the plugin with the current version then re-saving as your new template, but of course you would also have to replicate which articulations are deleted from each instance. Not a quick job, although one perhaps for a dark, uninspired day over Christmas!

Am not going to attempt in my current state of mind, which is clearly mired in dunderheaded-ness, as last night I used my xmas NI voucher to buy one of their Maschine Expansions, only to realise this morning it was one that I already had!


----------



## SpitfireSupport

hittjett said:


> Absolutely! I have the problem on my Mac Pro 10.13.6 running Safari 13.0.4 and on my iMac 10.14.6 running either Safari 12.1.2 or Firefox 70.0.1. Additionally I have had the problem on my iPhone XR and my iPad mini (ancient). I have sent screen shots to tech support in the past. Website is working fine as I type this, but last night I couldn't even get a page to load for about an hour. I attached the usual error that I get when a page won't open. There is no error page when the videos and sound files won't play. I just click on them and nothing happens. I then have to hold the option key and reload it (often multiple times) to get the example to play. Once one example will play, the whole page works fine.



Thanks, it looks like we might have an issue with certain browsers that I've asked our web team to look into. Safari seems to suffer particularly badly so if you wouldn't mind using a different browser while we look into it.


----------



## Bernard Duc

SpitfireSupport said:


> Thanks, it looks like we might have an issue with certain browsers that I've asked our web team to look into. Safari seems to suffer particularly badly so if you wouldn't mind using a different browser while we look into it.


I remember also having problems playing the demos on Chrome OSX.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

SpitfireSupport said:


> Thanks, it looks like we might have an issue with certain browsers that I've asked our web team to look into. Safari seems to suffer particularly badly so if you wouldn't mind using a different browser while we look into it.



Which is bizarre considering Spitfire seems to be mostly Apple based.


----------



## dzilizzi

Wolfie2112 said:


> Which is bizarre considering Spitfire seems to be mostly Apple based.


Thinking the same thing....


----------



## Alex Fraser

Safari can be a PITA - I've just moved my site servers and bore the brunt of Safari's quirks.


----------



## AndyP

hittjett said:


> It's 2019--nearly 2020--and these people can't make a website work. It's a pretty cool website when it actually works, but that's seldom. I complained to Techsupport months ago, and they claimed nothing had been reported. When a page actually loads, I often have to reload it two or three times before any of the demos will play. Tonight, I can't even bring it up at all. Who has website problems like this in this day and age?


It happens to me regularly with Safari. I don't have that problem with Chrome.


----------



## Karma

Wolfie2112 said:


> Which is bizarre considering Spitfire seems to be mostly Apple based.


I use Chrome... and Windows


----------



## SpitfireSupport

hittjett said:


> Absolutely! I have the problem on my Mac Pro 10.13.6 running Safari 13.0.4 and on my iMac 10.14.6 running either Safari 12.1.2 or Firefox 70.0.1. Additionally I have had the problem on my iPhone XR and my iPad mini (ancient). I have sent screen shots to tech support in the past. Website is working fine as I type this, but last night I couldn't even get a page to load for about an hour. I attached the usual error that I get when a page won't open. There is no error page when the videos and sound files won't play. I just click on them and nothing happens. I then have to hold the option key and reload it (often multiple times) to get the example to play. Once one example will play, the whole page works fine.



Our web team have made a change that should resolve this. I certainly haven't been able to recreate the problem myself since they did so.

Please let me know if you have better luck now


----------



## Jett Hitt

SpitfireSupport said:


> Our web team have made a change that should resolve this. I certainly haven't been able to recreate the problem myself since they did so.
> 
> Please let me know if you have better luck now


Because the problem is somewhat sporadic, it will take a while to know if the complete lack of page load is resolved. I can confirm, however, that I still have trouble getting videos and music files to play. I just pulled up the SCS page, and I had to reload it five times before I could finally get anything on the page to play. I tried multiple other product pages, and the problem seems to be fairly prevalent. So I would say that it is not fixed. Also, the "Products" dropdown menu doesn't seem to work on most pages either.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

SpitfireSupport said:


> Our web team have made a change that should resolve this. I certainly haven't been able to recreate the problem myself since they did so.
> 
> Please let me know if you have better luck now



I just tried again. The sound clips play, but none of the videos will play until I reload the page multiple times.


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Thanks guys, I was specifically talking about the issue where pages wouldn’t load at all on certain browsers. The web team is still looking into the issue where media clips won’t play sometimes.


----------



## CT

I always figured Spitfire was just throttling my connection to the site a bit because of how constantly I'm window shopping on it.


----------



## Zedcars

miket said:


> I always figured Spitfire was just throttling my connection to the site a bit because of how constantly I'm window shopping on it.


I was wondering if they can see what people have in their Wish Lists (and unpurchased basket contents), and whether it’s really just a way of gauging the market better.


----------



## vdk-john




----------



## gussunkri

staypuft said:


> Yes there are issues and you should be grateful that someone else is pointing them out for you. That´s how libraries get fixed in Spitfireland:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Chamber Strings - Performance legato", what happened to the patch?
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong, Sable is gorgeous, but I'd love one of their 70 employees with a good pair of ears and a copy of RX7 to go through the thing When you put it like that, it makes me wonder why they haven't done this already - and fixed what CH used to say was his favourite SA strings library.
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net


Based on Staypuft being caught faking a mock-up in the JXL brass thread (using someone else’s live recording) I think anything he has claimed in this thread and in others ought to be handled with care.


----------



## CT

Indeed.


----------



## Zedcars

gussunkri said:


> Based on Staypuft being caught faking a mock-up in the JXL brass thread (using someone else’s live recording) I think anything he has claimed in this thread and in others ought to be handled with care.


Been out all day. Caught a bit of the drama but not sure what’s been going on exactly. Is this really true? Evidence? Wow.


----------



## Bernard Duc

Zedcars said:


> Is this really true? Evidence? Wow.


Yes


----------



## gussunkri

Zedcars said:


> Been out all day. Caught a bit of the drama but not sure what’s been going on exactly. Is this really true? Evidence? Wow.


Seems so. From the other thread:



Jonathan Moray said:


> Here's the flipped version of the original from YouTube and the one Staypuft posted. The audio you're hearing is mostly artefacts from the difference in bit quality. Or are you going to tell me you know the track so well that you can even make a virtual library recorded in a different room, with different players, and different sections, cancel out the original that well?


----------



## 5Lives

It was clear he was here to troll Spitfire and BBCSO from the beginning.

Hope Christian and Paul see how it turned out for him so as not to take his “feedback” to heart.


----------



## Zedcars

So everything he posted is probably complete bs? Jeez. I mostly take everyone here as genuine and honest. Just goes to show how wrong you can be. I still think this is a great place and 99.99% of users are legit.


----------



## Zero&One

5Lives said:


> It was clear he was here to troll Spitfire and BBCSO from the beginning.



100%
Too many red flags for me. As soon as I called him out, he "ignored" me. 

He ruined what was a good thread here for many. It was his toxic crap that initially started the Drama zone spin-off. Glad he's gone along with his "Playstation 3 Hits Collection"


----------



## Brasart

Hahaha, what an absolute moron, in my experience toxic and supremely negative individuals all ends up being the same kind of people — the worst.

Wasn't following much the JXL thread, but yikes at his language, feels like a youtube comment section gone wrong.


----------



## Zedcars

His pieces actually made me despair a bit because they were so good. I try my hardest to create realistic mockups but his BBCSO and JXLB pieces were so good that I thought why am I even bothering? Feeling a little relieved it was all a big lie tbh.


----------



## Bluemount Score

I see we wanna get to 10k posts here, but maybe we agree on not talking about his bevaviour in yet another thread for much longer?


----------



## Zedcars

Fair enough.

(sneaked another one in hehe  )


----------



## ism

Zero&One said:


> 100%
> Too many red flags for me. As soon as I called him out, he "ignored" me.
> 
> He ruined what was a good thread here for many. It was his toxic crap that initially started the Drama zone spin-off. Glad he's gone along with his "Playstation 3 Hits Collection"



Agreed. I felt there was clearly a lack of good faith from the start.


----------



## dzilizzi

What I do find interesting is that, as I expected, the Sine player is also having some issues. Seems like Cubase is a bit of a problem for them as well. Or VEPro, can't tell for sure. Not hating on OT, just saying it will happen with every new player because there are too many configurations to test them all.


----------



## Bluemount Score

dzilizzi said:


> What I do find interesting is that, as I expected, the Sine player is also having some issues. Seems like Cubase is a bit of a problem for them as well. Or VEPro, can't tell for sure. Not hating on OT, just saying it will happen with every new player because there are too many configurations to test them all.


Sure, it is rather about if the devs listen to constructive reports and act appropriate. I don't own JXL, therefore no testing of the Sine player on my side, I just_ heard _that in FL Studio, there are problems as well.


----------



## dzilizzi

Bluemount Score said:


> Sure, it is rather about if the devs listen to constructive reports and act appropriate. I don't own JXL, therefore no testing of the Sine player on my side, I just_ heard _that in FL Studio, there are problems as well.


I'm actually planning on getting it for the free library and potentially to buy single instruments. So it is good to keep an eye on the progress.


----------



## CT

I did this as a joke for today's drama thread, but I guess I'll put it here too as an example of BBCSO being impolite for the record.


----------



## mralmostpopular

miket said:


> I did this as a joke for today's drama thread, but I guess I'll put it here too as an example of BBCSO being impolite for the record.



I’m curious to know if you’re doing any processing. It sounds great.


----------



## Noeticus

miket said:


> I did this as a joke for today's drama thread, but I guess I'll put it here too as an example of BBCSO being impolite for the record.



Is this really just the Spitfire BBCSO VST?


----------



## CT

Yes, it's Mix 2 and Full Spills. Bit of additional reverb, little bit of mid-scooping and limiting.


----------



## Jdiggity1

miket said:


> I did this as a joke for today's drama thread, but I guess I'll put it here too as an example of BBCSO being impolite for the record.


Yeah but can it do Medal of Honor?


----------



## Brasart

Jdiggity1 said:


> Yeah but can it do Medal of Honor?



Sadly I think it lacks 36 dynamic layers in the sextuple multitongue A27 deep-sampled trombones patch, truly shameful...


----------



## Jdiggity1

Brasart said:


> Sadly I think it lacks 36 dynamic layers in the sextuple multitongue A27 deep-sampled trombones patch, truly shameful...


The corner-cutting is getting out of hand...


----------



## Noeticus

miket said:


> Yes, it's Mix 2 and Full Spills. Bit of additional reverb, little bit of mid-scooping and limiting.



In that case, wow, this is truly amazing! I though you were having us on, as this is so good I thought you were just pretending to be so damn talented!


----------



## mralmostpopular

I posted this in the composition section, but this is almost entirely BBCSO. It also has the LABS Sleigh Bells for extra sleigh bell-y goodness.


----------



## Zero&One

mralmostpopular said:


> I posted this in the composition section, but this is almost entirely BBCSO. It also has the LABS Sleigh Bells for extra sleigh bell-y goodness.



Love it. Highlight for me was 2:47 onwards... and the slide flute 
BTW how do you guys do that angled view effect? Lovely editing


----------



## mralmostpopular

Zero&One said:


> Love it. Highlight for me was 2:47 onwards... and the slide flute
> BTW how do you guys do that angled view effect? Lovely editing



Thanks! I shot the screen at an angle with a camera.


----------



## Mrmonkey

Thought I’d share some thoughts on BBCSO as someone who is a complete newbie when it comes to making music and has no musical training but wanted a new hobby to be creative with. I picked the BBCSO after some research as it was sold as a starting point and I got Ark as well to set myself up with all I thought I needed. 

Anyway from someone whose musical ‘career’ is as long as the time I’ve owned the software I maybe I have a different perspective to all you guys who seem like professionals and maybe got it for different reasons to me.

I found that having all the individual instruments and sections was really daunting at first but I think it’s great for someone new to making music because it forces you to actually think about the sound each instrument makes whereas Ark’s ensemble patches confuse me more.

The logic template that Christian provided was cool but waaaaaay too much for me to get my head around so I made my own simpler one using it as a sort of guide.

The interface wasn’t very helpful because a lot of stuff is hidden and noobs don’t really know what to look for so it slowed me down a little.

I wish there was more explanation or maybe better demos of the different articulations and how they could be used because it was a bit overwhelming for a first timer. Like ‘this articulation is good for this.’

Similar with the microphone positions. There is no explanation and no presets. I have mine set at random and there are too many variables to mess with so I don’t know if I’m doing if right or wrong. It would be nice to have more presets.

I would love to see some more videos from spitfire on orchestration techniques. The one Paul did on strings was amazing but one on brass and woodwinds would save my life. Also maybe one on common scoring techniques (like apparently bass and cello normally play the same lines) things like that would be so helpful. Hell I’d pay money if they did more specialised video tutorials on stuff using BBCSO.

I love all the sounds. I feel inspired to to continue even if it can be a bit frustrating (who invented automation, Satan?) because of the sounds that you hear just pressing one key, and the fact that everything seems to fit together also means I can just experiment and have fun. So I want to say thanks to the spitfire guys because even though I’m not going to be scoring any movies the software allows me to feel excited like a kid and want to be creative.

So any other noobs thinking of getting into making music I think could do a lot worse than BBC and I’d recommend it for sure.

Anyway here is some noob music with a mix of ark and BBC. BBC is all strings, harp, woodwinds and a bit of the brass and percussion while ark is choir and most brass. I know it’s super basic but because the libraries sound so good you don’t need so much the talent to start making something that sounds somewhat musical,which for a beginner matters a lot (I’m looking at you Logic Pro X built in orchestra.)

Hope this helps any beginner who like me was a bit lost on what to get!


----------



## RogiervG

Maybe not a popular opinion.. but... it's mine nonetheless.

not sure what it is.. but this library sound quite weak in the brass.. I hear in many songs weird dynamics, odd attacks, bumpy volume changes, and many "whelp" curves when keeping a note sustained for e.g. 2 or more seconds.
I guess it need a lot of post editing, shifting between articulations, like in the old days.. before it sounds well.. "ok-ish" i guess... (in contrast, while it also needs post editing, i find the sound of symphonic brass more realistic sounding in most demos/songs posted on the internet)

Spitfire need to up their game quite a bit in the brass department of this library.


----------



## Bluemount Score

RogiervG said:


> Maybe not a popular opinion.. but... it's mine nonetheless.
> 
> not sure what it is.. but this library sound quite weak in the brass..
> Spitfire need to up their game quite a bit in the brass department in this library.


You are not the first one to mention this. It is quite a popular opinion. Brass is clearly the weakest part of the library for me too. Especially horns and trumpets.


----------



## paulthomson




----------



## PeterJCroissant

Mrmonkey said:


> Thought I’d share some thoughts on BBCSO as someone who is a complete newbie when it comes to making music and has no musical training but wanted a new hobby to be creative with. I picked the BBCSO after some research as it was sold as a starting point and I got Ark as well to set myself up with all I thought I needed.
> 
> Anyway from someone whose musical ‘career’ is as long as the time I’ve owned the software I maybe I have a different perspective to all you guys who seem like professionals and maybe got it for different reasons to me.
> 
> I found that having all the individual instruments and sections was really daunting at first but I think it’s great for someone new to making music because it forces you to actually think about the sound each instrument makes whereas Ark’s ensemble patches confuse me more.
> 
> The logic template that Christian provided was cool but waaaaaay too much for me to get my head around so I made my own simpler one using it as a sort of guide.
> 
> The interface wasn’t very helpful because a lot of stuff is hidden and noobs don’t really know what to look for so it slowed me down a little.
> 
> I wish there was more explanation or maybe better demos of the different articulations and how they could be used because it was a bit overwhelming for a first timer. Like ‘this articulation is good for this.’
> 
> Similar with the microphone positions. There is no explanation and no presets. I have mine set at random and there are too many variables to mess with so I don’t know if I’m doing if right or wrong. It would be nice to have more presets.
> 
> I would love to see some more videos from spitfire on orchestration techniques. The one Paul did on strings was amazing but one on brass and woodwinds would save my life. Also maybe one on common scoring techniques (like apparently bass and cello normally play the same lines) things like that would be so helpful. Hell I’d pay money if they did more specialised video tutorials on stuff using BBCSO.
> 
> I love all the sounds. I feel inspired to to continue even if it can be a bit frustrating (who invented automation, Satan?) because of the sounds that you hear just pressing one key, and the fact that everything seems to fit together also means I can just experiment and have fun. So I want to say thanks to the spitfire guys because even though I’m not going to be scoring any movies the software allows me to feel excited like a kid and want to be creative.
> 
> So any other noobs thinking of getting into making music I think could do a lot worse than BBC and I’d recommend it for sure.
> 
> Anyway here is some noob music with a mix of ark and BBC. BBC is all strings, harp, woodwinds and a bit of the brass and percussion while ark is choir and most brass. I know it’s super basic but because the libraries sound so good you don’t need so much the talent to start making something that sounds somewhat musical,which for a beginner matters a lot (I’m looking at you Logic Pro X built in orchestra.)
> 
> Hope this helps any beginner who like me was a bit lost on what to get!



Sounds great, you obviously have an ear for things. So I think eventually you will want to add more dynamics and tempo which is where the other articulations will come into play, but keeping that realism is still something to keep your ear on.

good luck

best
pete


----------



## TGV

Mrmonkey said:


> you don’t need so much the talent


It's true, good libraries make creating decent sound music easier, but they only take away a bit of extra training. Some talent is still needed, and for a "newbie", you certainly have some of that. Develop it, and have fun.


----------



## mralmostpopular

Mrmonkey said:


> Thought I’d share some thoughts on BBCSO as someone who is a complete newbie when it comes to making music and has no musical training but wanted a new hobby to be creative with. I picked the BBCSO after some research as it was sold as a starting point and I got Ark as well to set myself up with all I thought I needed.
> 
> Anyway from someone whose musical ‘career’ is as long as the time I’ve owned the software I maybe I have a different perspective to all you guys who seem like professionals and maybe got it for different reasons to me.
> 
> I found that having all the individual instruments and sections was really daunting at first but I think it’s great for someone new to making music because it forces you to actually think about the sound each instrument makes whereas Ark’s ensemble patches confuse me more.
> 
> The logic template that Christian provided was cool but waaaaaay too much for me to get my head around so I made my own simpler one using it as a sort of guide.
> 
> The interface wasn’t very helpful because a lot of stuff is hidden and noobs don’t really know what to look for so it slowed me down a little.
> 
> I wish there was more explanation or maybe better demos of the different articulations and how they could be used because it was a bit overwhelming for a first timer. Like ‘this articulation is good for this.’
> 
> Similar with the microphone positions. There is no explanation and no presets. I have mine set at random and there are too many variables to mess with so I don’t know if I’m doing if right or wrong. It would be nice to have more presets.
> 
> I would love to see some more videos from spitfire on orchestration techniques. The one Paul did on strings was amazing but one on brass and woodwinds would save my life. Also maybe one on common scoring techniques (like apparently bass and cello normally play the same lines) things like that would be so helpful. Hell I’d pay money if they did more specialised video tutorials on stuff using BBCSO.
> 
> I love all the sounds. I feel inspired to to continue even if it can be a bit frustrating (who invented automation, Satan?) because of the sounds that you hear just pressing one key, and the fact that everything seems to fit together also means I can just experiment and have fun. So I want to say thanks to the spitfire guys because even though I’m not going to be scoring any movies the software allows me to feel excited like a kid and want to be creative.
> 
> So any other noobs thinking of getting into making music I think could do a lot worse than BBC and I’d recommend it for sure.
> 
> Anyway here is some noob music with a mix of ark and BBC. BBC is all strings, harp, woodwinds and a bit of the brass and percussion while ark is choir and most brass. I know it’s super basic but because the libraries sound so good you don’t need so much the talent to start making something that sounds somewhat musical,which for a beginner matters a lot (I’m looking at you Logic Pro X built in orchestra.)
> 
> Hope this helps any beginner who like me was a bit lost on what to get!




Sounds great! Rather than watching some videos, you should pick up some books on orchestration. A short video will only be able to give a snapshot.


----------



## bvaughn0402

paulthomson said:


>




yeah ... brass don’t sound weak at all! I think maybe we just need to spend a little more time learning how to use it best. 😀


----------



## RogiervG

bvaughn0402 said:


> yeah ... brass don’t sound weak at all! I think maybe we just need to spend a little more time learning how to use it best. 😀



I agree, the shorts are good in BBCSO.
But still. Legato's are not that great to be honest, compared to say the strings and woodwinds.
(hence still a weak area of the library)


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Mrmonkey said:


> Similar with the microphone positions. There is no explanation and no presets.



There are presets, just look for the descriptions on the mic page. I prefer to just use Mix 1.....which I believe is called "Jakes Mix".


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

Wolfie2112 said:


> There are presets, just look for the descriptions on the mic page. I prefer to just use Mix 1.....which I believe is called "Jakes Mix".


On the lefthand side in the mixer you can load/save presets.
By default only a "Classic CTO" mix is availabe, bringing up a mix of close, tree and outriggers.


----------



## ridgero

RogiervG said:


> Spitfire need to up their game quite a bit in the brass department of this library.



I hope for a HZ Brass announcement at their special event on the 21st of January. )


----------



## Jett Hitt

paulthomson said:


>



I loved this when you first posted it, and it sounds just as good today. Something that I think would be an invaluable addition to The Page is a series of video tutorials that walk through something like this and demonstrate how you got this sound. In fact, a set of tutorials about using the library in general with extensive tips and tricks for achieving the best results would be extremely helpful. The more you can share with users to help them produce tantalizing results, the more people will buy this library.


----------



## Fleer

Have to say that this classic Star Wars opening just sounds absolutely marvelous with BBCSO. I’m stunned each time.


----------



## PCassidy

staypuft said:


> Hello.. This is the REAL Paul Cassidy here! This clown lifted MY demo from MY Soundcloud and passed it off as his own. So don't believe a single word he says...


----------



## Noeticus

:emoji_fireworks:🎆🎇:emoji_fireworks:🎇🎆🎇:emoji_fireworks:
:emoji_fire:🔥:emoji_fire:🔥🔥:emoji_fire::emoji_fire:🔥


----------



## Jett Hitt

@PCassidy should post his BBCSO mockup here that @staypuft posted and claimed was his own.


----------



## Tilt & Flow

hittjett said:


> @PCassidy should post his BBCSO mockup here that @staypuft posted and claimed was his own.


He did. And then deleted it.


----------



## Zero&One

Tilt & Flow said:


> He did. And then deleted it.



I think the poor guy is trying to make the best of a potential disaster for him. I'm sure when he gets his bearings he'll post it.


----------



## Noeticus

Hence the fireworks!


----------



## Jett Hitt

Tilt & Flow said:


> He did. And then deleted it.


That seems odd.


----------



## 5Lives

Does anybody have an all-in-one, single track per instrument template for Logic with the articulation IDs already set up?


----------



## Alex Fraser

5Lives said:


> Does anybody have an all-in-one, single track per instrument template for Logic with the articulation IDs already set up?


This might help?




__





Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


:rofl: lol oops I would love to hear how it went with the CS patches.




vi-control.net


----------



## musicsound

I like the tone of this library and put it already on my x-mas wishlist.

BUT: I am afraid of buying ist after reading some of your posts. Did we already receive the respective updates or is the software still almost unusable (RAM, bad samples, etc. ...). Maybe better to wait for another year ?

I have had very bad experiences with the “Play“ Software from Eastwest and I do not want to repeat this with Spitfires individual player.


----------



## Zero&One

musicsound said:


> I like the tone of this library and put it already on my x-mas wishlist.
> 
> BUT: I am afraid of buying ist after reading some of your posts. Did we already receive the respective updates or is the software still almost unusable (RAM, bad samples, etc. ...). Maybe better to wait for another year ?
> 
> I have had very bad experiences with the “Play“ Software from Eastwest and I do not want to repeat this with Spitfires individual player.



Mac, was fine from day 1 and updates improved performance.
PC, some users had initial issues with RAM. I'm not sure where that situation is now, but from what I've seen most have been sorted with updates.


----------



## musicsound

I am on Windows :-(


----------



## Bluemount Score

musicsound said:


> I am on Windows :-(


It's gotten better, especially loading times. I'm on Windows as well. I still got the feeling that my DAW (FL Studio) has performance issues when too many instances of BBCSO are loaded.


----------



## PCassidy

PCassidy said:


> For what it's worth, here is the demo. It's not even any good. So why that idiot wanted to use it is beyond me. I don't even care that he used it, I care that he has used my name. He has now become a laughing stock, but I've checked in some of the Facebook forums where I am known, and my fear has been confirmed, that many people believe that Staypuft is a pseudonym for me! He's really done some damage, which is going to take me a lot of time and effort to put the record straight.


----------



## 5Lives

Alex Fraser said:


> This might help?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra
> 
> 
> :rofl: lol oops I would love to hear how it went with the CS patches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



@babylonwaves already had released all the Logic articulation maps. However, Christian's template doesn't use any. I was hoping somebody had created a Logic all-in-one template, but if not, I guess I'll have to make my own use the Babylonwaves articulation maps. There's a great one created by the community for Cubase (unfortunately Cubase 10.5 is crashing every 20 min for me).


----------



## AEF

Alex Fraser said:


> This might help?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra
> 
> 
> :rofl: lol oops I would love to hear how it went with the CS patches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



Doesnt contain any articulation sets and the keyswitches are all over the place.


----------



## Zero&One

AEF said:


> Doesnt contain any articulation sets and the keyswitches are all over the place.



Didn't Christian say he was going to re-save the template to fix this on Twotter? As it was done using a Beta, that's why the keyswitches are messed up.
Not sure if this happened or not?


----------



## Alex Fraser

AEF said:


> Doesnt contain any articulation sets and the keyswitches are all over the place.


Cross purposes maybe? I believe the articulation maps I posted work with the stock “all in ones” not Christian’s template.


----------



## AndyP

musicsound said:


> BUT: I am afraid of buying ist after reading some of your posts. Did we already receive the respective updates or is the software still almost unusable (RAM, bad samples, etc. ...). Maybe better to wait for another year ?


The player is not unusable. There are a few things to consider depending on the soundpatch.
The sound is very good, improvements are necessary, but it is usable.


----------



## Ashermusic

AndyP said:


> The player is not unusable. There are a few things to consider depending on the soundpatch.
> The sound is very good, improvements are necessary, but it is usable.



There are very few libraries that are unusable in the right hands and very few that are useable in the wrong hands 😆🤭


----------



## AndyP

Ashermusic said:


> There are very few libraries that are unusable in the right hands and very few that are useable in the wrong hands 😆🤭


Ha! An Asher like I like.


----------



## Zero&One

AndyP said:


> Ha! An Asher like I like.



Screenshot it, those are rare and collectors editions 
JK


----------



## synthetic

musicsound said:


> BUT: I am afraid of buying ist after reading some of your posts. Did we already receive the respective updates or is the software still almost unusable



It’s working well for me. There are a few people having problems, which is not surprising for new software. I think (unless you’re completely ignored) it’s better to contact the support guys than drag the company online but not everyone agrees.


----------



## AEF

Alex Fraser said:


> Cross purposes maybe? I believe the articulation maps I posted work with the stock “all in ones” not Christian’s template.



right so meaning christians template wont work if you want to use those art sets. 

you have to reload every track. 

its not a plug and play template by any stretch as it was promised to be, and they seem to have given up on providing any more templates.


----------



## Zero&One

They just need to resave it as I mention. As they made it with a beta version the key switches are out of whack


----------



## Mike Fox

mralmostpopular said:


> I've just discovered another "easter egg" noise that slipped through. This one isn't quiet like the opera lady. The release on Horns a4 c3 at high dynamic has a someone shuffling and saying "yep" or something like that. These kinds of notes will definitely be any library, but this one in particular should probably be fixed since it's so prominent.


I might just buy this library for all the easter eggs in it!


----------



## paulthomson

AEF said:


> right so meaning christians template wont work if you want to use those art sets.
> 
> you have to reload every track.
> 
> its not a plug and play template by any stretch as it was promised to be, and they seem to have given up on providing any more templates.



I think I’m gonna have to start making use of the forum ignore function 🙄


----------



## AEF

paulthomson said:


> I think I’m gonna have to start making use of the forum ignore function 🙄



Excuse me? I spent 800 dollars on your product on top of thousands on other products. And you have THIS response for me stating that the given template doesnt include proper articulation sets? Please point to me the template you made that includes them, and the one with one articulation per track that you didnt deliver on as well.

Perhaps if you cant stand my honest opinions of your library, you should refund me. I’d be glad to spend that money on OT or Cinematic Studio products.

Please let me know.


----------



## Alex Fraser

AEF said:


> Excuse me? I spent 800 dollars on your product on top of thousands on other products. And you have THIS response for me stating that the given template doesnt include proper articulation sets? Please point to me the template you made that includes them, and the one with one articulation per track that you didnt deliver on as well.
> 
> Perhaps if you cant stand my honest opinions of your library, you should refund me. I’d be glad to spend that money on OT or Cinematic Studio products.
> 
> Please let me know.


With respect, you paid for the library. The template is a free bonus, not something you paid Spitfire for to supply support and updates. Key difference.


----------



## Noeticus

Dear Paul Thomson and Christian Henson,

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

You guys are the best!


----------



## paulthomson

Noeticus said:


> Dear Paul Thomson and Christian Henson,
> 
> MERRY CHRISTMAS!
> 
> You guys are the best!


Merry Christmas to you too! Hope you have a good one!


----------



## dcoscina

paulthomson said:


> Merry Christmas to you too! Hope you have a good one!


I was working with BBCSO last night in Cubase and I was blown away by the workflow. Blending instruments works wonderfully and applying traditional orchestration technique really pays off. There is a lot more power here than advertised. I'm enjoying the process of composing and the templates supplied for both LPX and Cubase are amazing. I like Cubase's expression maps a little better but that's a personal preference insofar as DAWs are concerned. But they are a super bonus and value add. 

Thanks for your hard work in bringing this out. It's a terrific library.


----------



## CT

AEF said:


> its not a plug and play template by any stretch as it was promised to be



I get the impression that people are plugging and playing these templates just fine. I'm sorry you're finding it difficult to adapt to your workflow, but bear in mind that these are being put together for free and are not necessarily going to cover everyone's way of doing things.




AEF said:


> they seem to have given up on providing any more templates



It's been a couple months, with two major holiday breaks, to say nothing of everything else going on for these guys professionally. Patience. Patience for the free resources that people are putting their own time into for you.


----------



## Richard Bowling

I think that complaining about something that was provided for free (that no other developer provides) seems ... _________. (You fill in the blank)


----------



## ed buller

musicsound said:


> I am on Windows :-(



It's working fine on Windows 7. I have 64g ram...it's at 70% fully loaded. Its a really good Library. The only major beef I have is the Horns....but it's well worth getting

best

ed


----------



## JT

I haven't downloaded any template yet. I'm using Logic, but I only have 16 GB of ram. Not sure how that would work with the template. I'm just having a great time with this library, it does everything they said.


----------



## AEF

Alex Fraser said:


> With respect, you paid for the library. The template is a free bonus, not something you paid Spitfire for to supply support and updates. Key difference.



Wrong. The library was specifically advertised to include the balanced template.

It was a HUGE selling point. Its on the main product page as well.


----------



## AEF

Richard Bowling said:


> I think that complaining about something that was provided for free (that no other developer provides) seems ... _________. (You fill in the blank)



It wasnt provided for free.

You had to buy an 800 dollar library to make it work. 

They hyped this library for months with this specific concept as a major part. 

The revisionist history here is hilarious. 

And I didnt say anything that isnt a fact: the template they provided doesnt include any articulation sets. Seems folks got upset for pointing out a fact. 

But Paul can feel free to contact me about a refund. Perhaps he can refund me SSS, SCS, and SStW.


----------



## CT

Ah, the Christmas spirit is alive and well on VI-Control!


----------



## Alex Fraser

AEF said:


> Wrong. The library was specifically advertised to include the balanced template.
> 
> It was a HUGE selling point. Its on the main product page as well.


Are you sure? I'll admit, the video on the product page featuring Christian using the template *might* give that impression, but nowhere is there any text stating that that template (with implicit support) is part of the paid package. In fact, it's a free download that anyone can access - part of the community page.

To be honest, I think you're placing too much emphasis on this template. My understating is that it was something Christian was doing for himself and then decided to share with BBCSO users. The template isn't required in anyway to use or share content created using the library. I'm kind of baffled that some folk place so much importance on it.

I've already posted the links for the free articulation maps. This is 90% of the work done for you. It'll take you a couple of hours - tops - to modify Christians's template to include these. Simply replace the BBCSO instances with the stock "all in ones" and add the maps.

Perhaps when you've done the template, you could enter into the Christmas spirit and share the result with the community!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Oh, and also - *Merry Christmas* to everyone who's posted in what's been a record breaking, fun and banter filled thread (with extra added LARPing from certain users!)

Hope y'all have a good one.
A


----------



## John R Wilson

Has anyone had any problems playing more than one track at a time with the BBCSO? When I play two BBCSO instrument tracks at the same time all I am getting is dropouts and loads of crackles. What I want to do is to be able to play some multi instruments with BBCSO or make some 8va multis, is they're any ways that I can do this without having to make multiple instances of the BBCSO tracks?


----------



## 5Lives

While I wouldn't have phrased it quite the way AEF did, one of the larger selling points of this library was the community support that Spitfire's team would put behind it in terms of sharing templates, MIDI mockups, etc. Now, I'm sure the team has been very busy with day to day business and of course, the holidays, so I think we should cut them some slack. It would be quite disappointing though if they didn't put renewed effort into that stuff in the new year though. "The Page" hasn't been updated in some time (the last feature was the beginning on Nov), so if there is another alternative Logic template out there made by the community, I haven't seen it (the Cubase ones listed on The Page are pretty great though). There have been a few kind members here that have shared their MIDI files and those really should be featured on The Page as well if it is meant to be a single destination for BBCSO.


----------



## CT

By the way, regarding the "balanced" part of "balanced template," BBCSO is largely accurately balanced out of the box. You could probably go in and tweak a couple things here and there if you wanted to be finicky, but it's hardly necessary. You don't need a pre-made template to accomplish this.

In any case, this template business was Christian's way of spearheading the "community" side of this. It's not a part of the product, and no one is owed anything where it's concerned. There's been some very generous sharing from others aside from Christian, it looks like, which is pretty cool, and I am sure that both Christian and the others will continue. If one finds that one's workflow is not served by any of the options yet available, there are surely better solutions than going on a forum and sighing about broken promises and abandoned projects. I would hope it's understandable why that might come off as rather petulant.

Then again, if there's really such a demand for templates, I gladly offer a copy of mine to anyone who wishes, available upon receipt of $800 via PayPal.


----------



## prodigalson

synthetic said:


> It’s working well for me. There are a few people having problems, which is not surprising for new software. I think (unless you’re completely ignored) it’s better to contact the support guys than drag the company online but not everyone agrees.



And some people contact the support guys yet still experience issues so think it might gain more weight with support if there are more people voicing similar issues but not everyone agrees.


----------



## Fleer

Alex Fraser said:


> Oh, and also - *Merry Christmas* to everyone who's posted in what's been a record breaking, fun and banter filled thread (with extra added LARPing from certain users!)
> 
> Hope y'all have a good one.
> A


Merry Christmas indeed. And sorry for the length (as well as chocolatey posting) of this thread. Should have known at OP


----------



## CT

Yeah, by the way, ever figure out what this was?



Fleer said:


> https://www.spitfireaudio.com/community/spitfire-audio-events/
> Any ideas?


----------



## Fleer

Still puzzled


----------



## Alex Fraser

miket said:


> Yeah, by the way, ever figure out what this was?


A subscription!


----------



## AEF

Alex Fraser said:


> Are you sure? I'll admit, the video on the product page featuring Christian using the template *might* give that impression, but nowhere is there any text stating that that template (with implicit support) is part of the paid package. In fact, it's a free download that anyone can access - part of the community page.
> 
> To be honest, I think you're placing too much emphasis on this template. My understating is that it was something Christian was doing for himself and then decided to share with BBCSO users. The template isn't required in anyway to use or share content created using the library. I'm kind of baffled that some folk place so much importance on it.
> 
> I've already posted the links for the free articulation maps. This is 90% of the work done for you. It'll take you a couple of hours - tops - to modify Christians's template to include these. Simply replace the BBCSO instances with the stock "all in ones" and add the maps.
> 
> Perhaps when you've done the template, you could enter into the Christmas spirit and share the result with the community!



Except it was part of the massive marketing campaign. 

You seem to be very defensive about the company at basically every turn. It’s somewhat bizarre. These are tools, not religions. They have flaws. Its ok to discuss them on an independent board.


----------



## AEF

Additionally, all i stated was to a prospective customer that in fact the template provided requires extensive editing to make articulation sets work.

That was enough to draw the ire of Paul Thompson who is so triggered by this matter of fact truth that he decided to openly comment that he wants to block me.

I know its very hard for Paul to read about honest opinions of his product instead of the 24-7 suck off that certain posters feel compelled to provide.

Offer is on the table Paul, ill take a refund of your products gladly. Never have to have my mean scary words comment on them again! A true safe space!


----------



## AllanH

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Has anyone had any problems playing more than one track at a time with the BBCSO? When I play two BBCSO instrument tracks at the same time all I am getting is dropouts and loads of crackles. What I want to do is to be able to play some multi instruments with BBCSO or make some 8va multis, is they're any ways that I can do this without having to make multiple instances of the BBCSO tracks?



No - I have several projects with about 15 BBCSO tracks. The "trick" is to make sure all the instruments have loaded. It may look like they are ready, but until the loading has completed, you will experience pops, missing notes, etc. BBCSO is slow at loading for me, so start by checking that loading has completed (the little "LED" in the top left of the player).


----------



## Fleer

AEF said:


> Additionally, all i stated was to a prospective customer that in fact the template provided requires extensive editing to make articulation sets work.
> That was enough to draw the ire of Paul Thompson who is so triggered by this matter of fact truth that he decided to openly comment that he wants to block me.


No, you literally suggested he had “given up on providing any more templates”.


----------



## Richard Bowling

AEF said:


> It wasnt provided for free.
> 
> You had to buy an 800 dollar library to make it work.
> 
> They hyped this library for months with this specific concept as a major part.
> 
> The revisionist history here is hilarious.
> 
> And I didnt say anything that isnt a fact: the template they provided doesnt include any articulation sets. Seems folks got upset for pointing out a fact.
> 
> But Paul can feel free to contact me about a refund. Perhaps he can refund me SSS, SCS, and SStW.


Technically you can plug any library into this template that they provided. They even provided the “empty” temp as well.

You can use the template without BBC SO.


----------



## bvaughn0402

AEF said:


> Additionally, all i stated was to a prospective customer that in fact the template provided requires extensive editing to make articulation sets work.
> 
> That was enough to draw the ire of Paul Thompson who is so triggered by this matter of fact truth that he decided to openly comment that he wants to block me.
> 
> I know its very hard for Paul to read about honest opinions of his product instead of the 24-7 suck off that certain posters feel compelled to provide.
> 
> Offer is on the table Paul, ill take a refund of your products gladly. Never have to have my mean scary words comment on them again! A true safe space!



I don't think anyone is devaluing your comments. But keep in mind, your comments come on the heals of a massive troll that spread a lot of venom on the forum, specifically toward Spitfire and OT.

I thought the template ... and tutorials ... and file exchanges ... were a HUGE draw for this library. It made this a "must have" library.

But I do think it was more "bonus" ... or Spitfire going "above and beyond".

I mean think about it ... how many other companies are sharing MIDI files? Very few. How many share templates which took them weeks to develop? Very few (if any?).

A template would be a HORRIBLE product ... because which DAW are you going to support?! The fact they only publicly supported Logic shows that this was just a nice gesture. If the template was the "product", then they would need to provide Cubase, Sonar, Studio Pro, Pro Tools, Reaper, ... but they didn't. 

But I get some of what you mean. I have loved the file sharing and the template ... and I'm looking forward to updated templates and the missing templates.

Yet ultimately, I think this was never intended to be part of the product, just an amazing cool bonus that they really won't make money off of.

Personally, I would subscribe to tutorials to Paul or Christian ... even pay for these templates.


----------



## 5Lives

Anybody getting crashes due to the BBCSO plugin in Logic or Cubase? Happening fairly frequently for me.


----------



## mralmostpopular

5Lives said:


> Anybody getting crashes due to the BBCSO plugin in Logic or Cubase? Happening fairly frequently for me.



What are your specs?


----------



## 5Lives

mralmostpopular said:


> What are your specs?



2015 iMac i7, 32GB, Mojave. I’m beginning to suspect it is my Mac itself. Crashing randomly.


----------



## Alex Fraser

AEF said:


> Except it was part of the massive marketing campaign.
> 
> You seem to be very defensive about the company at basically every turn. It’s somewhat bizarre. These are tools, not religions. They have flaws. Its ok to discuss them on an independent board.


Eh, lord knows they’re not perfect.
You’re right though. They are just tools and not worth getting emotional over on a public forum whilst demanding a refund.. 😉

You could have finished that template by now in the time you’ve spent arguing here. Just saying..


----------



## AndyP

Why is it so important to use ready-made templates? It might be a help and time saver, especially if you are not digested, but you learn a lot more about the libraries if you build your own templates.

This applies to the BBCSO just like any other library.

I find some discussions are not at a very constructive level. I don't like everything about the new player, but I don't like everything about Kontakt or Play either. No library I use is perfect, but I use them anyway.

Discussions should take place on a factual level, never on a personal level. This is the only way to achieve a common goal. 

I wish you all a contemplative Christmas time.


----------



## Brasart

I'm also pretty baffled at the vitriol and entitlement over a... template? Something free? Worked on by Christian on the side as a nice gesture to people buying BBC?
Where do you see it mentioned as part of the product you're buying on its product page (hint: nowhere)?

I did my own templates on Ableton, as others did with Reaper, Studio One, Cubase... why is it so hard for you to do your own?


----------



## Brasart

Also on the positive, merry christmas to this thread, its posters & the Spitfire Team!

BBC really is something special, and does give this unique sense of community that we found through Paul & Chritian's videos, this forum, The Page, and anywhere it is used.

I'll be starting pre-production on a game in january, and while it won't be a full on orchestral score, I know I want to use as much BBC as I can; and will probably keep most of it in the final release!

Merry christmas!


----------



## Zedcars

The name’s Plate, Tim Plate.

“Ooh Tim, you’re so well equipped. Your fingered tremolos are amazing! So much better than my vibrato.”

“Just wait until you see my battuto!” 

007. Licence to trill. 

(And I like my maracas shaken, not stirred.)

Coming soon to a DAW near you...

Tim Plate: The Man With The Golden Tongue


----------



## Jaap

Brasart said:


> Where do you see it mentioned as part of the product you're buying on its product page (hint: nowhere)?



The Page is advertised on the product page (under the Learn, Share & Collaborate section) and a direct quote from The Page:
"The Page is a brand new concept centered on building a singular knowledge resource for our community which we will keep updated with exciting new material including tutorials, templates and more, made by us and members of our extraordinary community. "

It was used in the marketing campaigns and hence it is actually part of the product to be honest.

Raising a question and/or concern regarding this matter is legimate in my opinion. Being called out upon that (and even being said to be put on the ignore list by Paul) is not so nice to be honest.
Everyone works differently (I also create my own templates and stuff), but as it IS part of the package, one should be able to talk about it.

Merry Christmas everyone


----------



## Brasart

Jaap said:


> The Page is advertised on the product page (under the Learn, Share & Collaborate section) and a direct quote from The Page:
> "The Page is a brand new concept centered on building a singular knowledge resource for our community which we will keep updated with exciting new material including tutorials, templates and more, made by us and members of our extraordinary community. "
> 
> It was used in the marketing campaigns and hence it is actually part of the product to be honest.
> 
> Raising a question and/or concern regarding this matter is legimate in my opinion. Being called out upon that (and even being said to be put on the ignore list by Paul) is not so nice to be honest.
> Everyone works differently (I also create my own templates and stuff), but as it IS part of the package, one should be able to talk about it.
> 
> Merry Christmas everyone



This is a pretty dishonest answer.
The Page is indeed advertised, but it does produce what it is said to be producing; a ressource hub filled with tutorials, user ressources, templates & audio excerpts — it is part of the product.

I have no issues with raising questions, as it is indeed legitimate, but I do have issues when people are being rude, entitled, mean, toxic or unfair.
You can ask about a product without being an absolute dick.
You don't see me answering every single post of people having issues with BBC or Spitfire, only the ones that I think are absolutely distasteful.

As to being called out; you only get back what you do to others, if you don't want someone to coldly respond back to you, then don't do it to him in the first place?

I think social skills are the most important skills you can have in life, but most importantly *in our industry*, I'm always very puzzled when I see people behave like angry teenagers -- you won't get results, you won't get friends, you won't get jobs.


----------



## Jaap

Brasart said:


> This is a pretty dishonest answer.
> The Page is indeed advertised, but it does produce what it is said to be producing; a ressource hub filled with tutorials, user ressources, templates & audio excerpts — it is part of the product.



Why is my answers dishonest while you are actually saying the same, that it is part of the product?



Brasart said:


> I think social skills are the most important skills you can have in life, but most importantly *in our industry*, I'm always very puzzled when I see people behave like angry teenagers -- you won't get results, you won't get friends, you won't get jobs.



I can only fully agree on this to be honest


----------



## Alex Fraser

Brasart said:


> This is a pretty dishonest answer.
> The Page is indeed advertised, but it does produce what it is said to be producing; a ressource hub filled with tutorials, user ressources, templates & audio excerpts — it is part of the product.
> 
> I have no issues with raising questions, as it is indeed legitimate, but I do have issues when people are being rude, entitled, mean, toxic or unfair.
> You can ask about a product without being an absolute dick.
> You don't see me answering every single post of people having issues with BBC or Spitfire, only the ones that I think are absolutely distasteful.
> 
> As to being called out; you only get back what you do to others, if you don't want someone to coldly respond back to you, then don't do it to him in the first place?
> 
> I think social skills are the most important skills you can have in life, but most importantly *in our industry*, I'm always very puzzled when I see people behave like angry teenagers -- you won't get results, you won't get friends, you won't get jobs.


Absolutely. It’s not the criticism of Spitfire (or any other dev) but the rank entitlement that sometimes comes with it. For my sins, that’s what triggers me.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Jaap said:


> Why is my answers dishonest while you are actually saying the same, that it is part of the product?


I think that was a typo 😀


----------



## Brasart

Jaap said:


> Why is my answers dishonest while you are actually saying the same, that it is part of the product?



The issue of said user wasn't "The Page doesn't exist" but "the template I was promised (?) as part of the product (?) is not there (?), and it must means they gave up on it (?)"

One specific template != everything that's in The Page


----------



## redlester

Some of the comments regarding the template and The Page I fundamentally disagree with, but we all come at things from different angles so I do get how confusion and opinions can differ. I do find it hard to grasp though when people are so vehemently criticising something like this offered for free. It's on record that Christian doesn't use Keyswitches or Articulation Sets, in fact when this was mentioned on Twitter it had to be explained to him what the latter were, so it's no surprise that such an "oversight" might occur.

As I've said before, the articulation sets issue can be solved by simply replacing each plugin instance with the latest version. If it matters that much to someone then why not do just that, then send it back to Spitfire so they can update it on The Page. Would that not constitute what "sharing and collaboration" is all about?

Also, a blank version of the template was issued which can be used for any product you like (including other manufacturers). How they can be criticised for this is completely beyond me. Before someone says "it's only for Logic" then create a Cubase equivalent and share it.

I personally found the templates (BBC version and empty version) incredibly useful and educational as I had never attempted one before but now am grasping the usefulness and have plans to create my own versions. I've been educated in other words - something else which was mentioned in the marketing I believe...


----------



## SZK-Max

I'm Waiting a Christmas gift for more Woodwind Extend Legatos.


----------



## micrologus

Just found this on YouTube: very impressive use of Spitfire BBC Orchestra!


----------



## dcoscina

AEF said:


> I know its very hard for Paul to read about honest opinions of his product instead of the 24-7 suck off that certain posters feel compelled to provide.



Wow that sentiment is really going to get you far on this forum or in life. Maybe some of us haven’t had the same experience you have with BBCSO or have found different means to express concern about a particular issue. 

but you feel the need to piss on everyone else here to validate your own perspective in a manner that will alienate you from this forum. Nice one.


----------



## dcoscina

Brasart said:


> This is a pretty dishonest answer.
> The Page is indeed advertised, but it does produce what it is said to be producing; a ressource hub filled with tutorials, user ressources, templates & audio excerpts — it is part of the product.
> 
> I have no issues with raising questions, as it is indeed legitimate, but I do have issues when people are being rude, entitled, mean, toxic or unfair.
> You can ask about a product without being an absolute dick.
> You don't see me answering every single post of people having issues with BBC or Spitfire, only the ones that I think are absolutely distasteful.
> 
> As to being called out; you only get back what you do to others, if you don't want someone to coldly respond back to you, then don't do it to him in the first place?
> 
> I think social skills are the most important skills you can have in life, but most importantly *in our industry*, I'm always very puzzled when I see people behave like angry teenagers -- you won't get results, you won't get friends, you won't get jobs.


Amen brother


----------



## RogiervG

micrologus said:


> Just found this on YouTube: very impressive use of Spitfire BBC Orchestra!




l keep saying it: the brass section sounds odd, even somewhat synthy when playing in high dynamic (especially the trumpets and horns) on the non shorts

however, the lower dynamics are pretty darn good, as well as shorts (being it high or low dynamics).

I've put it on my Wishlist 
(along with other spitfire audio jewels)


----------



## Alex Fraser

dcoscina said:


> Wow that sentiment is really going to get you far on this forum or in life. Maybe some of us haven’t had the same experience you have with BBCSO or have found different means to express concern about a particular issue.
> 
> but you feel the need to piss on everyone else here to validate your own perspective in a manner that will alienate you from this forum. Nice one.


I had to google “suck off”
😀


----------



## Loïc D

It is irrelevant and insulting to write that we “suck off [SA] 24/7”.

We take rests.

Peace to you, man.


----------



## AndyP

Carols singing everywhere ... a nightmare.
I'm going to the hospital now with my sick mother... there are more important things than sample libraries


----------



## Jaap

AndyP said:


> I'm going to the hospital now with my sick mother... there are more important things than sample libraries



Very sorry to hear that and all the best of luck and I hope it will turn out ok!


----------



## AEF

Alex Fraser said:


> Absolutely. It’s not the criticism of Spitfire (or any other dev) but the rank entitlement that sometimes comes with it. For my sins, that’s what triggers me.



And yet it is only on Spitfire products that this “entitlement” seems to upset you so greatly.

And nobody said they were entitled to it, but when a poster asks about the templates, I provided an answer which is:

the given template has no articulation sets and cannot be used with premade sets.

it is therefore not a ready made template. and so if that was an important selling point to this prospective buyer of this (now) $1000 library, he should know.

I know it is just so mean on the non-commercial page to ::gasp:: discuss the product and provide information. 

The deepest irony is that Alex doesnt own the library. Perhaps his fixation is some strange jealousy, due to him not being able to have it and being furious that the rest of us are “entitled”. It’s bizarre behavior to be honest.


----------



## Alex Fraser

AEF said:


> And yet it is only on Spitfire products that this “entitlement” seems to upset you so greatly.
> 
> And nobody said they were entitled to it, but when a poster asks about the templates, I provided an answer which is:
> 
> the given template has no articulation sets and cannot be used with premade sets.
> 
> it is therefore not a ready made template. and so if that was an important selling point to this prospective buyer of this (now) $1000 library, he should know.
> 
> I know it is just so mean on the non-commercial page to ::gasp:: discuss the product and provide information.
> 
> The deepest irony is that Alex doesnt own the library. Perhaps his fixation is some strange jealousy, due to him not being able to have it and being furious that the rest of us are “entitled”. It’s bizarre behavior to be honest.


I’ve said it before, but it’s worth repeating: Download the free articulation sets and make your own template.

Also, I’m flattered that you’re stalking me across the forum. Merry Christmas!


----------



## Zero&One

Alex Fraser said:


> I had to google “suck off”
> 😀



I almost did... then realised I'm at work. Google it, that is.


----------



## Zedcars

AndyP said:


> Carols singing everywhere ... a nightmare.
> I'm going to the hospital now with my sick mother... there are more important things than sample libraries


OMG. Never a good time to be ill , but definitely not on Christmas Eve. I do hope she recovers soon.

Yes, family and health is far more important than silly sample library arguments and such.

Best wishes!


----------



## John R Wilson

AllanH said:


> No - I have several projects with about 15 BBCSO tracks. The "trick" is to make sure all the instruments have loaded. It may look like they are ready, but until the loading has completed, you will experience pops, missing notes, etc. BBCSO is slow at loading for me, so start by checking that loading has completed (the little "LED" in the top left of the player).



I can have a reasonable amount of tracks playing without clicks, pops and drop outs on playback, it's when I play more than 1 track live that I get lots of issues. Instruments load quite fast on my system but I just can't play more than 1 instrument track at the same time without getting lots of audio drop outs.


----------



## John R Wilson

AndyP said:


> Carols singing everywhere ... a nightmare.
> I'm going to the hospital now with my sick mother... there are more important things than sample libraries



Sorry to hear this. Hope she gets better very soon.


----------



## 5Lives

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> I can have a reasonable amount of tracks playing without clicks, pops and drop outs on playback, it's when I play more than 1 track live that I get lots of issues. Instruments load quite fast on my system but I just can't play more than 1 instrument track at the same time without getting lots of audio drop outs.



I’ve noticed this as well. For example if I have a track stack in Logic with 2-3 winds loaded up and try to play the entire stack live, it’ll give me CPU spikes.


----------



## John R Wilson

Also, in regards to the page and the templates provided by Christian. I do feel that these where a part of the product and its marketing, however, I don't feel that the materials posted on their should necessarily get the same levels of support or updates as the actual libraries and thus Christian has provided a template as promised and this can always be changed and edited to individual users preferences or workflows.

It was my understanding that it was a place to collaborate and share things. I'm also assuming that Christian and Paul will most likely be continuing to add more ane more materials to this. I'm more concerned with improvements to the actual bbcso libary and the spitfire player. 

I view the materials added to the page as a bonus and something to assist in making things a little easier.


----------



## Alex Fraser

5Lives said:


> I’ve noticed this as well. For example if I have a track stack in Logic with 2-3 winds loaded up and try to play the entire stack live, it’ll give me CPU spikes.


Could be the famous Logic issue of single core overloading on live instruments? Does it happen with other VI’s?


----------



## John R Wilson

5Lives said:


> I’ve noticed this as well. For example if I have a track stack in Logic with 2-3 winds loaded up and try to play the entire stack live, it’ll give me CPU spikes.



Exactly the same here. It's very frustrating. I can't even play two tracks at the same time.


----------



## John R Wilson

Alex Fraser said:


> Could be the famous Logic issue of single core overloading on live instruments? Does it happen with other VI’s?



It's happening in Cubase as well.


----------



## 5Lives

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Also, in regards to the page and the templates provided by Christian. I do feel that these where a part of the product and its marketing, however, I don't feel that the materials posted on their should necessarily get the same levels of support or updates as the actual libraries and thus Christian has provided a template as promised and this can always be changed and edited to individual users preferences or workflows.
> 
> It was my understanding that it was a place to collaborate and share things. I'm also assuming that Christian and Paul will most likely be continuing to add more ane more materials to this. I'm more concerned with improvements to the actual bbcso libary and the spitfire player.
> 
> I view the materials added to the page as a bonus and something to assist in making things a little easier.



One suggestion for the Spitfire folks regarding The Page would be to allow the community to actively submit content for it (and then it gets posted publicly after you review it). Templates, MIDI mockups, etc.


----------



## John R Wilson

5Lives said:


> One suggestion for the Spitfire folks regarding The Page would be to allow the community to actively submit content for it (and then it gets posted publicly after you review it). Templates, MIDI mockups, etc.



This would probably be a good idea for them to do. They could also include this as a separate page on the page.


----------



## Brasart

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> I can have a reasonable amount of tracks playing without clicks, pops and drop outs on playback, it's when I play more than 1 track live that I get lots of issues. Instruments load quite fast on my system but I just can't play more than 1 instrument track at the same time without getting lots of audio drop outs.



Did you try to change your BBCSO settings? 
I use one plug-in instance/one articulation per track and I can play like 6-7 tracks live together without any issues, maybe more but I don't remember trying.
I'm running an i5 3,4GHz quad-core from my iMac 2017 (I think it's a 7700k?)


----------



## John R Wilson

Brasart said:


> Did you try to change your BBCSO settings?
> I use one plug-in instance/one articulation per track and I can play like 6-7 tracks live together without any issues, maybe more but I don't remember trying.
> I'm running an i5 3,4GHz quad-core from my iMac 2017 (I think it's a 7700k?)



What settings are you using in bbcso? I haven't edited the default settings in the spitfire player yet so maybe this may help. With the default settings I can't play more than one track at a time without getting issues. I've got a quad core i7, 64gb ram.


----------



## Brasart

Someone posted a recap of what Spitfire Support suggested them to change, so don't hesitate to send them a message with your specs (or trace back the thread to that post, I don't remember where it was unfortunately).

Here are my settings, I followed some of what that user posted at the time:

Maximum Voices = 764
Preload Size = (default)
Stream Buffer Size = (default)
Master Tuning = (default)
Maximum Pitch Voices = 16

I think you have to press "Copy" in "General" to make it apply to all instances, but I'm not 100% sure since it been a while I did it


----------



## John R Wilson

Brasart said:


> Someone posted a recap of what Spitfire Support suggested them to change, so don't hesitate to send them a message with your specs (or trace back the thread to that post, I don't remember where it was unfortunately).
> 
> Here are my settings, I followed some of what that user posted at the time:
> 
> Maximum Voices = 764
> Preload Size = (default)
> Stream Buffer Size = (default)
> Master Tuning = (default)
> Maximum Pitch Voices = 16
> 
> I think you have to press "Copy" in "General" to make it apply to all instances, but I'm not 100% sure since it been a while I did it



Cheers for that. I'll see if I can go back and see what settings were suggested. Hopefully this will solve these issues.


----------



## Zero&One

I got some settings ages ago, link below that also links to original un-edited one. Had no issues after. I've never changed them since.





__





Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


I really like Spitfire's products and I don't mind a bit of even shameless promotion, but I am feeling really quite bugged by this "universal starting point" business. It feels like nothing to do with the library or the library's reason for being created and like complete nonsense designed to...




vi-control.net


----------



## John R Wilson

Zero&One said:


> I got some settings ages ago, link below that also links to original un-edited one. Had no issues after. I've never changed them since.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra
> 
> 
> I really like Spitfire's products and I don't mind a bit of even shameless promotion, but I am feeling really quite bugged by this "universal starting point" business. It feels like nothing to do with the library or the library's reason for being created and like complete nonsense designed to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



Nice one, thanks for that. I'll give those settings a try.


----------



## Fleer

Meanwhile, merry Xmas and lots of QS chocolates.


----------



## AndyP

Jaap said:


> Very sorry to hear that and all the best of luck and I hope it will turn out ok!


Okay for now. Of all the days to be out on Christmas Eve, it's not pretty.
That's how it is when people get old.

Sorry, I shouldn't have written this, it's very personal and it doesn't fit here.

Thanks for the wishes anyway!


----------



## PeterJCroissant

AndyP said:


> Okay for now. Of all the days to be out on Christmas Eve, it's not pretty.
> That's how it is when people get old.
> 
> Sorry, I shouldn't have written this, it's very personal and it doesn't fit here.
> 
> Thanks for the wishes anyway!



sometimes it’s nice to know that even strangers on the internet care..

Hope everything gets better for you


----------



## KeyMaestro

AEF said:


> And yet it is only on Spitfire products that this “entitlement” seems to upset you so greatly.
> 
> And nobody said they were entitled to it, but when a poster asks about the templates, I provided an answer which is:
> 
> the given template has no articulation sets and cannot be used with premade sets.
> 
> it is therefore not a ready made template. and so if that was an important selling point to this prospective buyer of this (now) $1000 library, he should know.
> 
> I know it is just so mean on the non-commercial page to ::gasp:: discuss the product and provide information.
> 
> The deepest irony is that Alex doesnt own the library. Perhaps his fixation is some strange jealousy, due to him not being able to have it and being furious that the rest of us are “entitled”. It’s bizarre behavior to be honest.



So, I’m not sure why I’m adding to this... one reason I’ve avoided this forum for years is how it breaks down into petty and defensive posts.

I have BBCSO. I use Logic. I enjoy Articulation sets, but those sets are a product of Logic, 
not Spitfire.

I have completed quite a few projects for clients as well as myself with this template. While I’ve had to adjust things on the fly, even if the Articulation Sets don’t match the Beta presets that the template was built around, it’s actually quite simple to change articulation KS’s in the plugin.

Templates are personal workflow tools. While it’s nice to think that a pre-made temp will help, there is no such thing as perfect. Even if the functionality pieces were correct, there’s personal workflow based on personal preference, preference of the client, preference of those you’re working on a project alongside, experience, the project itself... To go into someone else’s template expecting it to be perfect for your own workflow is setting unrealistic expectations. If something doesn’t work, fix it or work around it. The job needs to be completed. The music needs to be written and performed.

-Plus the few issues in this template have been acknowledged by one of the creators who has said there will be a later release to follow...

To intimate that anything was promised other than the product advertised on the website (BBC SO) is again, unrealistic expectations. Most of the “marketing” of the template was on Christian’s personal channel and not on Spitfire’s.

In the end, shouldn’t we all be too busy making music to be getting this vitriolic about imperfect artificial instruments and templates made by anyone but ourselves.

I hope my membership on this forum is not something I’ll come to regret. This is the first thread I’ve followed, and so far it’s been disappointing- even with all the side show entertainment.

To those of you sharing legitimate tips, tricks, celebrating cool products and giving feedback free of emotion, thanks for making my visits worth it.

Happy Holidays, everyone!


----------



## gussunkri

I am amazed by how efficient BBCSO is. I completed a full orchestral track yesterday on my MacBook Pro 2019 with *8 GB of RAM*! I used 25 instances of the BBCSO with an average of three articulations per instance. Full string sections, standard woods and brass, along with timpani, snare, glockenspiel, xylophone, bass drum and harp. I can't believe it actually worked. I didn't get a single stutter or crackle.

EDIT: Here is the track I did. Again, all BBCSO on a computer with 8 GB of RAM.


----------



## Fleer

Hershey’s Kisses!


----------



## Zedcars

Fleer said:


> Hershey’s Kisses!


Ewww. They taste like vomit! 🤮

(I’ve read American chocolate has butyric acid in it, which is what vomit smells of. So weird that people buy that stuff  )


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Ewww. They taste like vomit! 🤮
> 
> (I’ve read American chocolate has butyric acid in it, which is what vomit smells of. So weird that people buy that stuff  )



First time I went to USA I tried a bar of Hershey’s just because it’s nice to try the local stuff when abroad. I concur with your review!


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> First time I went to USA I tried a bar of Hershey’s just because it’s nice to try the local stuff when abroad. I concur with your review!


My “review”! lol

Yes, I’ll be posting thorough walkthrough video of the whole experience very soon!


----------



## Fleer

Glad we concur. There’s nothing that beats Neuhaus!


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> First time I went to USA I tried a bar of Hershey’s just because it’s nice to try the local stuff when abroad. I concur with your review!


Not a fan either. Would be interesting to hear from our American friends who've tried the British stuff..


----------



## Noeticus

Hershey's chocolate cannot be sold in England because it does not meet the criteria to be called chocolate there... so I am told.


----------



## Fleer

Herreshy!


----------



## muk

Owning flagship libraries for each section of the orchestra, would Spitfire BBC SO bring something new to the table?

It looks like section for section there are better choices than BBC SO out there (more consistent libraries, better legato, more dynamic layers etc). But I am wondering, when putting together a mockup, does the consistency of the same hall and recording techniques of BBC SO result in something that trumps the greater flexibility and quality of individual sections?

I have a hard time trying to figure that out from demos. Am I better off with the flagship libraries of various developers I already have?


By the way, Hershey's? British chocolate? From memory these taste not dissimilar to the cardboard boxes we use to pack our swiss chocolate in.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

muk said:


> By the way, Hershey's? British chocolate? From memory these taste not dissimilar to the cardboard boxes we use to pack our swiss chocolate in.


----------



## dcoscina

muk said:


> Owning flagship libraries for each section of the orchestra, would Spitfire BBC SO bring something new to the table?
> 
> It looks like section for section there are better choices than BBC SO out there (more consistent libraries, better legato, more dynamic layers etc). But I am wondering, when putting together a mockup, does the consistency of the same hall and recording techniques of BBC SO result in something that trumps the greater flexibility and quality of individual sections?
> 
> I have a hard time trying to figure that out from demos. Am I better off with the flagship libraries of various developers I already have?



I think you’re onto something with this. I’ve spent a bit of time with BBCSO since I’m reviewing it for FSM Online. I own tons of other libraries. I use a lot of them in my professional work. BBCSO sounds good, let’s be clear. Is it as flashy as some other releases? Probably not. But dammed if I’m not more inspired to compose using BBCSO than the other libraries. And the ergonomics is just a dream. The Cubase template is straight out bad ass. I use both Cubase 10.5 and LPX templates but prefer Cubase because of the expression maps. Workflow is about as streamlined as working in Dorico using NotePerformer except with sonically superior results.

and I will reiterate that employing traditional orchestration technique yields a much closer result compared to using multiple orchestral libraries from different developers- or even several releases from the same one to be honest. 

The value of this library is like an iceberg. Much of it is under the surface. 👍
[/QUOTE]


----------



## AndyP

muk said:


> Owning flagship libraries for each section of the orchestra, would Spitfire BBC SO bring something new to the table?


IMO its not a must have library. Even if you already have flagship libs.


----------



## dzilizzi

Alex Fraser said:


> Not a fan either. Would be interesting to hear from our American friends who've tried the British stuff..


I like plain milk chocolate. If I had a choice, I'd go with Ghirardelli. But you can't find their bars anywhere any more. Same with Nestles (plain milk chocolate - crunch bars are everywhere). So most of the time I'm stuck with Hershey's. I'm going to say it tastes so much better than chocolate I've gotten from Europe. However, I will give European chocolate the benefit of the doubt because maybe the reason it tastes like cardboard is because they don't ship it properly. Just nasty flavor and texture. Like it's been melted, frozen, melted and solidified. 

And? If I can get Coffee Crisp from Canada, I will take it over plain milk chocolate.


----------



## mikeh-375

@muk, you are such a show-off with your posh (delicious btw) chocolate. But if it's so good, why were you eating cardboard?......hah.


----------



## muk

mikeh-375 said:


> But if it's so good, why were you eating cardboard?......hah.



Beginners mistake. Out of desperation that the bar was finished.

@dcoscina thanks for your thoughts. Without a demo this one is pretty hard to figure out. Could be that I love the library, as I am looking for a concert hall sound. But it's also possible that I would be unhappy with the corners that have been cut.


----------



## Jaap

dcoscina said:


> I think you’re onto something with this. I’ve spent a bit of time with BBCSO since I’m reviewing it for FSM Online. I own tons of other libraries. I use a lot of them in my professional work. BBCSO sounds good, let’s be clear. Is it as flashy as some other releases? Probably not. But dammed if I’m not more inspired to compose using BBCSO than the other libraries. And the ergonomics is just a dream. The Cubase template is straight out bad ass. I use both Cubase 10.5 and LPX templates but prefer Cubase because of the expression maps. Workflow is about as streamlined as working in Dorico using NotePerformer except with sonically superior results.
> 
> and I will reiterate that employing traditional orchestration technique yields a much closer result compared to using multiple orchestral libraries from different developers- or even several releases from the same one to be honest.
> 
> The value of this library is like an iceberg. Much of it is under the surface. 👍



I completely second this. I have all the major libraries for each sections and though individually they are on most levels better in a lot of things, BBC SO shines though throughout being a consistent complete orchestra.
There are things that annoy me, but truth be told, that is almost with every library. What happened with BBC SO though it that I needed to adjust some working/playing techniques, for example being far more subtle on the cc1 and combine it almost on every patch with cc11 and the vibrato (assigned it to cc2) and using these 3 on a subtle level while entering the midi makes for me all the difference in the world.
The sound, with all the different mic options, as whole just works and I am very happy with this.
The player gives me some issues, but posted that before and won't drag that cat out again and getting good support from Spitfire. The issues itself are not big enough to let it be a letdown.
As @dcoscina posted, the library is just extremely inspiring.


----------



## Lady Gaia

Alex Fraser said:


> Not a fan either. Would be interesting to hear from our American friends who've tried the British stuff..



I would say mass-produced British chocolates aren't anything really remarkable. Being superior to Hershey's is clearing a particularly low bar. It's just another example of how the bell curve in the US tends to be unreasonably wide for a whole bunch of socio-economic and political reasons that are best sidestepped here. Speaking as an American, I'd avoid thinking of Hershey's as representative of American chocolate in the same way I'd advise against considering Bud Lite to be representative of American beer. It's mass market product designed to be as cheap as possible with a longer shelf life and high tolerance for poor shipping and storage conditions.

"The good stuff" is almost invariably small batch, preservative-free, and exquisite examples can be found just about anywhere with a sufficient population. I've lived in Canada, where I enjoyed chocolates hand-made by members of the Callebaut family who brought their tradition from Belgium after selling off the brand originally named after them. After moving back to the country of my birth I've always taken the time to find small, local producers who carry on similar traditions in California, the Pacific Northwest, and thankfully here on Maui as well.


----------



## Fleer

If you can, you should try Pierre Marcolini. Otherwise, get Neuhaus. Those are two of the very best, not unlike BBC S


----------



## redlester

Fleer said:


> If you can, you should try Pierre Marcolini. Otherwise, get Neuhaus.



Sorry, are these sample libraries or chocolate types?


----------



## Oxytoxine

Jaap said:


> I completely second this. I have all the major libraries for each sections and though individually they are on most levels better in a lot of things, BBC SO shines though throughout being a consistent complete orchestra.
> There are things that annoy me, but truth be told, that is almost with every library. What happened with BBC SO though it that I needed to adjust some working/playing techniques, for example being far more subtle on the cc1 and combine it almost on every patch with cc11 and the vibrato (assigned it to cc2) and using these 3 on a subtle level while entering the midi makes for me all the difference in the world.
> The sound, with all the different mic options, as whole just works and I am very happy with this.
> The player gives me some issues, but posted that before and won't drag that cat out again and getting good support from Spitfire. The issues itself are not big enough to let it be a letdown.
> As @dcoscina posted, the library is just extremely inspiring.



So you would say that the often discussed missing dynamic layers / apparent "inability" to reach the low pp and high ff expressions levels is in reality not that much of a problem? 

I ask because I am in the same boat as the person who's question you answered (already have too many libraries, but somehow craving for a coherent / cohesive "all in one experience", hoping that BBCO could give me this without sacrificing too much on other corners / things that specialized and more deep libraries have).

Thanks!


----------



## KeyMaestro

Every library handles the scripting and number of dynamic layers differently. There really no one-size-fits-all library. In the end, I had immense success by incorporating Expression with Dynamics and performing the parts live. 

- - 
I live about an hour and a half from Hershey and we go quite often with my kids. (They’re amusement park is fantastic!) They intentionally add an acidic, cheesy flavor profile to balance the sweetness of the milk chocolate. I did a tasting once and they described it and now I can’t un-taste that part. I’m not a fan of milk chocolate anyway. 

Unfortunately, we don’t import Cadbury into the US anymore - it’s made by Hershey. This, I don’t buy it anymore. (I don’t know if this is a seasonal thing or for the entire product line.


----------



## Jaap

Oxytoxine said:


> So you would say that the often discussed missing dynamic layers / apparent "inability" to reach the low pp and high ff expressions levels is in reality not that much of a problem?
> 
> I ask because I am in the same boat as the person who's question you answered (already have too many libraries, but somehow craving for a coherent / cohesive "all in one experience", hoping that BBCO could give me this without sacrificing too much on other corners / things that specialized and more deep libraries have).
> 
> Thanks!



Good question 

With the use of expression I can reach very subtle and convincing lower dynamics and also by using a far lower starting expression then I normally do, the fortissimo's sound much better.
Still I am not 100% happy about this, specially with the brass.

But what it is nice is that this library shines when you do good and realistic orchestration. I come from a classical background, but worked the last decade more in the games and nowadays also for trailer publishers like Really Slow Motion Music etc. For this kind of stuff you don't need realistic orchestrations and I am working now on a project (one commercial and for myself) that requires again "regular" orchestral writing and then this library just works fine. I realised after a few days that most of my reference came from my not so typical vst orchestration and hence being so used to all these dynamic layers and fffff layers. But it is actually rare and not so common as I started to feel it was. That is also a the big plus as well as the big negative of samples, the perspective shifts.
But with the BBC SO it feels like you should treat it like you should work with a real orchestra.
If you orchestrate a proper fff in all the instruments, it will sound like that and for me the lack of dynamic layers suddenly became far less of a problem.

This is only my own experience though and hopefully more can chime in to give their point of view, but I hope this helps a bit


----------



## Oxytoxine

Jaap said:


> Good question
> 
> With the use of expression I can reach very subtle and convincing lower dynamics and also by using a far lower starting expression then I normally do, the fortissimo's sound much better.
> Still I am not 100% happy about this, specially with the brass.
> 
> But what it is nice is that this library shines when you do good and realistic orchestration. I come from a classical background, but worked the last decade more in the games and nowadays also for trailer publishers like Really Slow Motion Music etc. For this kind of stuff you don't need realistic orchestrations and I am working now on a project (one commercial and for myself) that requires again "regular" orchestral writing and then this library just works fine. I realised after a few days that most of my reference came from my not so typical vst orchestration and hence being so used to all these dynamic layers and fffff layers. But it is actually rare and not so common as I started to feel it was. That is also a the big plus as well as the big negative of samples, the perspective shifts.
> But with the BBC SO it feels like you should treat it like you should work with a real orchestra.
> If you orchestrate a proper fff in all the instruments, it will sound like that and for me the lack of dynamic layers suddenly became far less of a problem.
> 
> This is only my own experience though and hopefully more can chime in to give their point of view, but I hope this helps a bit



Thank you very much for taking the time to share your impressions! 

This sounds very encouraging regarding BBCO, and your explanations with regard to proper writing for an orchestra are very helpful! It's not a bad thing if a library "forces" the user to do so - I must say I am tempted again.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Jaap said:


> If you orchestrate a proper fff in all the instruments, it will sound like that and for me the lack of dynamic layers suddenly became far less of a problem.



This is precisely what I like about it. It really has a very "concert" feel-- probably because it is sampled from primarily concert musicians. There is a lot of expressive writing and interesting musical choices that you can make with that approach that are much harder to achieve with libraries designed for ultra-processed, often ultra-loud modern cinematic scoring in mind. Which doesn't make those libraries bad! It just makes their aspirations and general philosophy different.


----------



## dcoscina

curtisschweitzer said:


> This is precisely what I like about it. It really has a very "concert" feel-- probably because it is sampled from primarily concert musicians. There is a lot of expressive writing and interesting musical choices that you can make with that approach that are much harder to achieve with libraries designed for ultra-processed, often ultra-loud modern cinematic scoring in mind. Which doesn't make those libraries bad! It just makes their aspirations and general philosophy different.


I don't want to generalize but I dare say some of the loudest (and harshest) critics of BBCSO _might_ be folks who have not had the benefit of standing in front of a real group of musicians and know what a real orchestra sounds like? Not to start yet another tree of controversy on this thread but given how hyped and amped up so many libraries are these days, it's not surprising that some find this library to be a little more tame....


----------



## Jett Hitt

dcoscina said:


> I don't want to generalize but I dare say some of the loudest (and harshest) critics of BBCSO _might_ be folks who have not had the benefit of standing in front of a real group of musicians and know what a real orchestra sounds like? Not to start yet another tree of controversy on this thread but given how hyped and amped up so many libraries are these days, it's not surprising that some find this library to be a little more tame....


You've hit the nail on the head. I have spent my life listening to the great orchestras of the world, many of which are British. What grabbed me about BBC was that it sounded more like a real orchestra than any of the usual trailer trash I hear. It's not perfect. It won't replace an orchestra. But it comes as close as anything I have heard. It would be my number one recommendation to anyone starting out, and it might be the only thing they ever need. The trick with any library is to first make sure that the initial orchestration is good. If it is, BBCSO will sound great. I always tell my students, if you can make it sound good in Finale, it is going to sound amazing in real life. Same is true of BBCSO.


----------



## Loïc D

Lady Gaia said:


> I enjoyed chocolates hand-made by members of the Callebaut family who brought their tradition from Belgium


That’s the brand - together with Valrhona - that we use to create homemade chocolates


----------



## muk

dcoscina said:


> I don't want to generalize but I dare say some of the loudest (and harshest) critics of BBCSO _might_ be folks who have not had the benefit of standing in front of a real group of musicians and know what a real orchestra sounds like? Not to start yet another tree of controversy on this thread but given how hyped and amped up so many libraries are these days, it's not surprising that some find this library to be a little more tame....



While there might be truth in this, I think it is too simple an explanation. I have a strong classical background. I hear a classical orchestra live at least once a week. I still think BBC SO misses dynamics. And not only the loud ones, but the really soft ones as well. Had it been recorded with 4 dynamic layers instead of two, in my opinion it would have been an amazing library. As it is, I think I can achieve the sound I am after (which is very much a classical concert hall sound) better with individual flagship libraries for each section of the orchestra. Simply because they have more timbral variation, and more articulations in some cases. Your mileage may vary.


----------



## Sovereign

muk said:


> While there might be truth in this, I think it is too simple an explanation. I have a strong classical background. I hear a classical orchestra live at least once a week. I still think BBC SO misses dynamics. And not only the loud ones, but the really soft ones as well.


This is an objective fact. I find it hilarious how some would tout the expressiveness of BBCSO when it is precisely the expressiveness that was left on the cutting room floor, so to speak. Meh. As if only modern trailer scores would ever call for more dynamics, such a silly notion. It's a nice starter library though. Could have been awesome.


----------



## Alex Fraser

muk said:


> Had it been recorded with 4 dynamic layers instead of two, in my opinion it would have been an amazing library.


Is this true? I was under the impression that whilst some of the solo instruments were limited to two dynamic layers, the ensemble sounds had more. Would be interesting to know.


----------



## dcoscina

muk said:


> While there might be truth in this, I think it is too simple an explanation. I have a strong classical background. I hear a classical orchestra live at least once a week. I still think BBC SO misses dynamics. And not only the loud ones, but the really soft ones as well. Had it been recorded with 4 dynamic layers instead of two, in my opinion it would have been an amazing library. As it is, I think I can achieve the sound I am after (which is very much a classical concert hall sound) better with individual flagship libraries for each section of the orchestra. Simply because they have more timbral variation, and more articulations in some cases. Your mileage may vary.


Fair enough and thanks for replying. My post was definitely speculation hence why I see italics for “might”. 
That said, I’ve been working with real groups more these days and I’ve found that almost all my sample libraries on any given day sound inauthentic. A recent release by another major developer in the brass department continues to baffle me as to its reception since it doesn’t sound good at all to my ears (and I’m a trombone player who’s performed solo and in groups for 15 years so I know what brass sounds like). 

perhaps it’s this perspective that dictates the value I see in BBCSO from a compositional standpoint rather than a production based one (meaning I use it for mockups that will eventually be replaced by a real orchestra). Would I use it for final product recordings? Yes but I would augment it with other SF producta and even other developer libraries but then that’s a different discipline.


----------



## Oxytoxine

I have bought it and played around with it the whole last night. Indeed seems to be very well balanced and a very coherent / consistent package in many regards. I like the general “sound” of it.

On the flipside, I also immediately noticed the “flatness” or lack of dynamic layers on most patches. Indeed probably not more than 2 dynamic layers on many. I understand the point that this also has the positive side of forcing one to write in a more cohesive and “realistic” manner in the sense of that it kind of works like an inbuilt “compressor”, but sadly this really limits the possibilities for expression.

Furthermore, some of the short samples are not properly cutted, there is a rather large amount of “choppiness” when trying to write tight staccato / staccatissimo lines etc.

One can not have everything, I assume it reflects the price point. I have come to the conclusion that, as has been mentioned upthread, I too would have preferred the tradeoff of less microphone positions instead of less dynamic layers, legato transitions etc., but it is as it is. I will have to have a look at SSO (of which I currently I only have Chamber strings).


----------



## muk

Alex Fraser said:


> Is this true? I was under the impression that whilst some of the solo instruments were limited to two dynamic layers, the ensemble sounds had more. Would be interesting to know.







__





Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


:crying:



vi-control.net





According to this, 'longs can be 2-3 dynamic layers'. 

@dcoscina thanks for the additional context. I concur that many current products tend to favour the loud and bold, and it's a nice change that BBC SO doesn't do that. Keep in mind that you have first hand experience with the library, and I don't. So your perspective is valuable to me. 

What made me not buy BBC SO, even though I like the concept a lot, are the walkthroughs showing individual instruments. I have heard mockups made with BBC SO that sound fantastic. But in the walkthroughs, I thought no individual instrument really convinces on its own. The lack of timbral range is audible, and there are other flaws as well (occasional sloppy timing on the shorts, legato transitions that are ok but not more etc.).
I think for every instrument or section, there are better libraries out there.

So I suspect that the best demos were written towards the libraries strengths. That's normal of course. But the walkthroughs make me doubt that it will sound as good with music that isn't specifically designed with the library in mind. And that's how I usually work. So personally I am looking for libraries that are more flexible and versatile than BBC SO seems to be. I admire the concept. This implementation, however, is not for me.


----------



## Ashermusic

muk said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra
> 
> 
> :crying:
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to this, 'longs can be 2-3 dynamic layers'.
> 
> @dcoscina thanks for the additional context. I concur that many current products tend to favour the loud and bold, and it's a nice change that BBC SO doesn't do that. Keep in mind that you have first hand experience with the library, and I don't. So your perspective is valuable to me.
> 
> What made me not buy BBC SO, even though I like the concept a lot, are the walkthroughs showing individual instruments. I have heard mockups made with BBC SO that sound fantastic. But in the walkthroughs, I thought no individual instrument really convinces on its own. The lack of timbral range is audible, and there are other flaws as well (occasional sloppy timing on the shorts, legato transitions that are ok but not more etc.).
> I think for every instrument or section, there are better libraries out there.
> 
> So I suspect that the best demos were written towards the libraries strengths. That's normal of course. But the walkthroughs make me doubt that it will sound as good with music that isn't specifically designed with the library in mind. And that's how I usually work. So personally I am looking for libraries that are more flexible and versatile than BBC SO seems to be. I admire the concept. This implementation, however, is not for me.



I concur.


----------



## Fleer

LowweeK said:


> That’s the brand - together with Valrhona - that we use to create homemade chocolates


They’re even into pink (or ruby) chocolate these days (https://www.barry-callebaut.com/en/...-callebaut-reveals-fourth-type-chocolate-ruby).


----------



## dzilizzi

Fleer said:


> They’re even into pink (or ruby) chocolate these days (https://www.barry-callebaut.com/en/...-callebaut-reveals-fourth-type-chocolate-ruby).


I don't know about this. If it's like that fake white chocolate which is just hard buttercream frosting, it's not really chocolate.  It's sugar butter.


----------



## Loïc D

dzilizzi said:


> I don't know about this. If it's like that fake white chocolate which is just hard buttercream frosting, it's not really chocolate.  It's sugar butter.


Afaik, it’s another kind of chocolate beans that are mostly red.
And it’s good yes. Very different from milk chocolate & black chocolate.


----------



## Lady Gaia

When the Callebaut family sold off their traditional business it wound up being used for a lot of mass-market product. In Canada the hand-made tradition was carried on originally under the brand Bernard Callebaut, which was also lost following financial troubles and no longer does business the same way. I believe today he operates under the name Papa Chocolat.

Back on the BBCSO topic: as this is my first serious symphonic library I'm not in an ideal position to draw comparisons, but I can speak as someone without formal training trying their hand at composing without the crutch of ensemble patches - and I'm having a blast. Sure, the library contributes its own feel and character, and has a considerable influence on what I'm playing as a result. That's also true of all my favorite instruments, so it seems perfectly natural to me.

It will take time for me to learn to use everything I now have available. There are definitely some surprises, such as a lot of the brass articulations responding to velocity the way other articulations respond to CC dynamics. Where I initially found the brass disappointing, this discovery really helped me open up a lot more potential I was missing out on. Better documentation would help, but there's no substitute for actual hands-on experience.


----------



## Fleer

Didn’t know about Callebaut and Canada, great name. They’re still active in Lokeren and Wieze in Belgium but indeed under the French company Barry and incorporated in Switzerland. Says it all.


----------



## Noeticus

Wow.... 7800 Posts!!


----------



## dzilizzi

Noeticus said:


> Wow.... 7800 Posts!!


Only 2200 more to go....


----------



## JT

2199


----------



## Fleer

Had ourselves some fine Neuhaus pralines.


----------



## dcoscina

I began work on a video game score that I’d actually started sketching last year er, 2018. It’s going for that Conan the Barbarian vibe so it bad to be bold and powerful. Composed a bit of it in BBCSO and while I loved the ergonomics of working with it in Cubase, the results just weren’t quite what I needed. I did a similar mock up on Nucleus and yeah it sounded much brighter and bigger. 

HOWEVER- I went back to BBC for another track I was working on And it yielded wonderful results for the music I was after for that track. Completely loved working with it once again. 

moral of the story: it cannot be everything for everyone. For concert works or music that is more classically orchestrated, it does exceedingly well. I think it’s more a statement on how we have all been conditioned to provide over amped music for clients because that’s what they are demanding.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

So I've actually written a piece now but whilst mixing it, I wondered, is it still necessary to pan the instruments? I followed my usual template but it just made everything sound a lot weaker.


----------



## Zedcars

MarcHedenberg said:


> So I've actually written a piece now but whilst mixing it, I wondered, is it still necessary to pan the instruments? I followed my usual template but it just made everything sound a lot weaker.


I would leave the panning alone except for subtle things like Trp 2 and 3, Trmb 2 and 3 etc. It’s all panned perfectly according to the traditional concert soundstage.


----------



## a113jackson

I've not checked on this thread or this library much since its release, and after reading through a few pages here I'm wondering - what's the deal with the horns? People seem to have strong negative opinions on them. Can someone fill me in?


----------



## ed buller

a113jackson said:


> I've not checked on this thread or this library much since its release, and after reading through a few pages here I'm wondering - what's the deal with the horns? People seem to have strong negative opinions on them. Can someone fill me in?



It's the top dynamic......just lame...everything else lovely. But they have no bite at ff-fff...
but we are talking 1 Articulation on 1 Instrument.......the rest of the library is amazing !

Spitfire Studio Brass: Cinebrass : BBCSO

best

e


----------



## a113jackson

ed buller said:


> It's the top dynamic......just lame...everything else lovely. But they have no bite at ff-fff...
> 
> Spitfire Studio Brass: Cinebrass : BBCSO
> 
> best
> 
> e



Ah, that is pretty weak. Thanks, e.


----------



## CT

BBCSO is awesome. Please give me more instruments. Chamber strings?


----------



## Zedcars

a113jackson said:


> Ah, that is pretty weak. Thanks, e.


Layer a sfz or stac and it helps depending on context.


----------



## harmaes

Here's an example of the first 10 bars of JW Star Wars Anakin's theme using only BBCSO. The focus here is to test the woodwinds and strings (violas are really nice in BBCSO) and how the score translates to BBCSO. I tried to stay as close to the OST as possible and IMO BBCSO has a great and cohesive sound!


----------



## Oxytoxine

Does anyone else have BBCSO crash cubase on OS X? 

It happens regularly here, but I can not pin down to what exactly causes it, seems random. It happens especially often when using the Hybrid template from the spitfire page, but also when starting with an empty project. Last night it crashed two times when just trying to add a Kontakt instance to a project consisting otherwise of only BBCSO. To take it with humor - maybe the two players do not like each other 

Otherwise I start to really really like it in many regards!


----------



## Zedcars

Oxytoxine said:


> Does anyone else have BBCSO crash cubase on OS X?
> 
> It happens regularly here, but I can not pin down to what exactly causes it, seems random. It happens especially often when using the Hybrid template from the spitfire page, but also when starting with an empty project. Last night it crashed two times when just trying to add a Kontakt instance to a project consisting otherwise of only BBCSO. To take it with humor - maybe the two players do not like each other
> 
> Otherwise I start to really really like it in many regards!


Mine crashes often at startup with a big project - full template. Weird thing is it will sometimes crash another two times and then, without me doing anything else at all, it will load fine on the 3rd or 4th attempt. No idea what’s going on but no other project does this unless it has BBCSO on it.

Cubase 10, Mojave


----------



## Nemoy

miket said:


> BBCSO is awesome. Please give me more instruments. Chamber strings?



Yes. And we definitely need muted brass. That's a must at some point.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Nemoy said:


> Yes. And we definitely need muted brass. That's a must at some point.


Hoping for that as well, but I kinda doubt it - I'm just waiting for Bass Flute and Piano, but these may take some more time as well, according to my update experiences with Spitfire.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

I love the strings and woodwinds. At lower dynamics, the brass sounds gorgeous. It's at the higher dynamics that I've had to blend in Cinematic Studio Brass, especially when giving a melody line to the horns. If the mix isn't too dense, I think the BBC horns work fine on their own. Not that you should be relying on horns to carry a melody in a densely orchestrated mix anyway, but they get completely lost in there. EQ'ing the high end helps with the presence but also introduces a new problem by making the horns sound brittle.

I'm sure the more qualified mix engineers in here have better solutions though. To me, though, the top dynamic just isn't there and I'm not sure any mix technique can fix that.


----------



## Loïc D

MarcHedenberg said:


> EQ'ing the high end helps with the presence but also introduces a new problem by making the horns sound brittle.


I don’t own BBCSO but I’d avoid EQing which creates a load of artifacts and unbalances the sound (which would be a shame with BBCSO).
Instead I’d use a saturation plugin, not too aggressive and automated so that it’s off on soft passages.
That’s just a cheap workaround to gain some power that will never replace a dynamic layer.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

I suspected that might be the case. This is why I love Supercharger hehe.


----------



## Bluemount Score

MarcHedenberg said:


> I love the strings and woodwinds. At lower dynamics, the brass sounds gorgeous. It's at the higher dynamics that I've had to blend in Cinematic Studio Brass, especially when giving a melody line to the horns. If the mix isn't too dense, I think the BBC horns work fine on their own.


Exactly my thoughts. The winds are currently my favorite out of any library I own. Definitely has to do with the lovely clear room tone. Legato is also fabulous for the most part.


----------



## harmaes

LowweeK said:


> I don’t own BBCSO but I’d avoid EQing which creates a load of artifacts and unbalances the sound (which would be a shame with BBCSO).
> Instead I’d use a saturation plugin, not too aggressive and automated so that it’s off on soft passages.
> That’s just a cheap workaround to gain some power that will never replace a dynamic layer.



Do you think I used EQ in my example I posted above here?


----------



## Bluemount Score

LowweeK said:


> I don’t own BBCSO but I’d avoid EQing which creates a load of artifacts and unbalances the sound (which would be a shame with BBCSO).
> Instead I’d use a saturation plugin, not too aggressive and automated so that it’s off on soft passages.
> That’s just a cheap workaround to gain some power that will never replace a dynamic layer.


I would only partly agree. Too much of anything makes things worse of course and BBCSO sounds very balanced by just using the Mix 1, right out of the box. However, the sound is overall very raw and unprocessed, which generally isn't a bad thing. On some instruments EQing did make things much better, on others it wasn't necessary at all, or barely. You still have to use your ears. Can't go too wrong with e.g. cutting some 350 mud in the bass drum and other low instruments. In some libraries I like to boost lots of air, in BBCSO I barely feel the need to do so. In the end, we shall not forget about personal taste and while I personally barely compress or limit anything, I'm an EQ-freak.
Thanks for the saturation tipp though, might come in handy.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

The clarinet and flute are so good! I even like the piccolo. I'd say the library was worth it just for that whole section.

Oh and the harp. A lot of the percussion has been useful to me too. Bass drums though seem extremely muddy around the lows (mostly bass drum 1). Not sure if they're supposed to be that way? I've been making cuts there so far.


----------



## John R Wilson

MarcHedenberg said:


> The clarinet and flute are so good! I even like the piccolo. I'd say the library was worth it just for that whole section.
> 
> Oh and the harp. A lot of the percussion has been useful to me too. Bass drums though seem extremely muddy around the lows (mostly bass drum 1). Not sure if they're supposed to be that way? I've been making cuts there so far.



I agree, I am a fan of the woodwinds in BBCSO. They sound great to my ears and play well.


----------



## Oxytoxine

Zedcars said:


> Mine crashes often at startup with a big project - full template. Weird thing is it will sometimes crash another two times and then, without me doing anything else at all, it will load fine on the 3rd or 4th attempt. No idea what’s going on but no other project does this unless it has BBCSO on it.
> 
> Cubase 10, Mojave



Thanks! Sad to hear for you, but good to hear that I'm not the only one. Cubase 10.5, Catalina


----------



## Fleer

Any reason to still delay switching to Catalina on Logic Pro?


----------



## Ashermusic

Fleer said:


> Any reason to still delay switching to Catalina on Logic Pro?



None that I have experienced.


----------



## Loïc D

Bluemount Score said:


> I would only partly agree. Too much of anything makes things worse of course and BBCSO sounds very balanced by just using the Mix 1, right out of the box. However, the sound is overall very raw and unprocessed, which generally isn't a bad thing. On some instruments EQing did make things much better, on others it wasn't necessary at all, or barely. You still have to use your ears. Can't go too wrong with e.g. cutting some 350 mud in the bass drum and other low instruments. In some libraries I like to boost lots of air, in BBCSO I barely feel the need to do so. In the end, we shall not forget about personal taste and while I personally barely compress or limit anything, I'm an EQ-freak.
> Thanks for the saturation tipp though, might come in handy.


Don’t get me wrong, I’m EQing also, 90% to cut in the lows & highs.
Sometimes I boost a bit the air too.
But I would not use EQ to boost mids : there are too many instruments in that range.
I think you get more energy with saturation than EQ - if you’re looking for power brass. Maybe a transient designer would do the trick too, but I’m always cautious in using this on non-percussive stuff.


----------



## Bluemount Score

LowweeK said:


> Don’t get me wrong, I’m EQing also, 90% to cut in the lows & highs.
> Sometimes I boost a bit the air too.
> But I would not use EQ to boost mids : there are too many instruments in that range.
> I think you get more energy with saturation than EQ - if you’re looking for power brass. Maybe a transient designer would do the trick too, but I’m always cautious in using this on non-percussive stuff.


Can't remember when I boosted mids last time to a mentionable amount, BBCSO or not. Yes, you gotta be cautious and always bypass the signal now and then to check if you actually improved something, or destroyed it. Besides Pro Q3, I'm using Gullfoss as a very helpful plugin to help me finding frequencies that can either be cut or boosted. This automatic EQ is incredible, however it tends to add more treble than needed for traditional orchestral music.


----------



## Loïc D

Bluemount Score said:


> Can't remember when I boosted mids last time to a mentionable amount, BBCSO or not. Yes, you gotta be cautious and always bypass the signal now and then to check if you actually improved something, or destroyed it. Besides Pro Q3, I'm using Gullfoss as a very helpful plugin to help me finding frequencies that can either be cut or boosted. This automatic EQ is incredible, however it tends to add more treble than needed for traditional orchestral music.


Pro Q3 user too (I'm using more & more dynamic EQ and less compressors). I'll check Gullfoss, thanks for the tip.
I'm using Ozone 8 for mastering and the auto mode always adds treble too.
Generally speaking I feel like libraries have a more "direct" "straight in the face" sound than real orchesta - notably in the low & high register and even with ambient mics. 
I'd often tame the sound of libraries by cutting both ends.


----------



## Fleer

+1 for SoundTheory Gullfoss as a remarkable automatic EQ and FabFilter Pro Q3 for fine tuning


----------



## vdk-john

Bluemount Score said:


> This automatic EQ is incredible, however it tends to add more treble than needed for traditional orchestral music



I'm also pretty happy with gullfoss; btw it's possible to prevent it from touching the higher frequencies by dragging the right edge to the left so that the higher frequencies are excluded


----------



## Bluemount Score

vdk-john said:


> I'm also pretty happy with gullfoss; btw it's possible to prevent it from touching the higher frequencies by dragging the right edge to the left so that the higher frequencies are excluded


I'm aware of that, also you can lower the brightness setting. But it's not like I want to exclude high frequencies completely out of the process. So or so, this is a minor flaw of an otherwise great plugin.


----------



## John R Wilson

vdk-john said:


> I'm also pretty happy with gullfoss; btw it's possible to prevent it from touching the higher frequencies by dragging the right edge to the left so that the higher frequencies are excluded



I've not used gullfoss before, seems interesting. Is it more of a mastering plugin to use on final masters or something that you would use during the mixing process?


----------



## PerryD

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> I've not used gullfoss before, seems interesting. Is it more of a mastering plugin to use on final masters or something that you would use during the mixing process?


 I was wondering as well. I found this on Youtube:


----------



## John R Wilson

PerryD said:


> I was wondering as well. I found this on Youtube:




Sounds interesting. Seems like it might be a good plugin to use in the mastering process to add a little more clarity to a mix.


----------



## NYC Composer

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> Sounds interesting. Seems like it might be a good plugin to use in the mastering process to add a little more clarity to a mix.


Then there’s Clariphonic, one of my desert island plug ins.....


----------



## Fleer

NYC Composer said:


> Then there’s Clariphonic, one of my desert island plug ins.....


All-in-all, I get the most from FabFilter plugins, particularly their Pro-R reverb, Pro-C2 comp and Pro-Q3 EQ.


----------



## Morning Coffee

Fukning hell, this thread is still going! 

Edit: (sorry, had a few too many beers tonight!)


----------



## Fleer

There’s nothing a morning coffee can’t help. And have yourself some chocolates.


----------



## Ashermusic

NYC Composer said:


> Then there’s Clariphonic, one of my desert island plug ins.....



Mine too.


----------



## Morning Coffee

Fleer said:


> There’s nothing a morning coffee can’t help. And have yourself some chocolates.


Hey Fleer, I like your profile picture. I have a Vox AC30 (custom classic), couldn't afford an original AC30, but still, it is a cool guitar amplifier!


----------



## Fleer

Morning Coffee said:


> Hey Fleer, I like your profile picture. I have a Vox AC30 (custom classic), couldn't afford an original AC30, but still, it is a cool guitar amplifier!


Thanks, MC. Vox do great stuff. Love their Continental so much I got a few of them


----------



## Morning Coffee

Fleer said:


> Thanks, MC. Vox do great stuff. Love their Continental so much I got a few of them


Well, there you go! Learn something new every day! I've never heard of such an instrument before, will have to research. I'll kindly bow out of this conversation now so this thread can get back on track! (and so I can drink more beer, and have some chocolates in the morning!)


----------



## haus.media

jonesdip said:


> Cubase Users. Alex Watson @agbwatson has posted the following with links to 3 Cubase Templates based on Christian's Logic Template. There is an All in One version, a Hybrid Version and a Stripped out version of the template which he is making available via links on the video and also on the "The Page" on Spitfire Audio website. Even if you don't have BBCSO they are a brilliant basis for learning Cubase routing and bussing. Thank you Alex.




I'm wondering if someone could point me in the right direction regarding this BBCSO Cubase template. I use the Logic template and have no issues at all with instruments/instances loading. When I load the Cubase template, all the tracks are greyed out and it doesn't look like the actual BBCSO plugin has loaded in the track (Strings long etc.) . In the above video, Alex says to right click on the track to enable it however when I right click, enable track is not an option...and it still looks as though the BBCSO instrument is not loaded in the channel anyway. Nor can I just click on the instrument plugin area to load BBCSO. Sorry if this is rudimentary stuff...Logic is my preferred DAW for BBCSO but I really want to give the Chord Pad feature a workout in Cubase, having owned it for several years. On Cubase ver 10. 

Also, if I simply add a new instrument track with BBCSO as the instrument, there is no issue. I can play via external controller, Chord Pad etc. 

TIA.


----------



## Oxytoxine

haus.media said:


> I'm wondering if someone could point me in the right direction regarding this BBCSO Cubase template. I use the Logic template and have no issues at all with instruments/instances loading. When I load the Cubase template, all the tracks are greyed out and it doesn't look like the actual BBCSO plugin has loaded in the track (Strings long etc.) . In the above video, Alex says to right click on the track to enable it however when I right click, enable track is not an option...and it still looks as though the BBCSO instrument is not loaded in the channel anyway. Nor can I just click on the instrument plugin area to load BBCSO. Sorry if this is rudimentary stuff...Logic is my preferred DAW for BBCSO but I really want to give the Chord Pad feature a workout in Cubase, having owned it for several years. On Cubase ver 10. TIA.



Does Cubase TIA mean cubase artist? If yes, I think that there enable / disable track is not supported, only in Cubase pro. Maybe this could be your issue?


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

haus.media said:


> when I right click, enable track is not an option...


Can you post a screenshot of how that menu looks like for you?
Did Cubase detect the BBCSO plugin (can you create a new instrument track and place a BBCSO instance)?


----------



## haus.media

Oxytoxine said:


> Does Cubase TIA mean cubase artist? If yes, I think that there enable / disable track is not supported, only in Cubase pro. Maybe this could be your issue?



No, sorry....TIA (Thanks in advance.) 

Cubase Pro ver 10.0.20


----------



## haus.media

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Can you post a screenshot of how that menu looks like for you?
> Did Cubase detect the BBCSO plugin (can you create a new instrument track and place a BBCSO instance)?



This board is magic....I went back to grab a screen shot and now everything is working. I was able to enable the individual tracks. I think my issue was that I was just clicking on the Winds, Strings etc. stems. But I could swear I clicked on the individual voicings. Either way....Thank you! 

PS - This is a screen shot of both the stem right click and the individual voicing right click in case someone else makes the same mistake.

PSS - Now in looking at those pics, I see what I did...there is an additional nested folder "BBCSO V1 Leader" etc that holds all the articulations. I was clicking on that "track".


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

By the way:
I used the template on Cubase 10.0.40 and had the problem that all reverb send panners were completely hard panned to the left side by default.
I had to update Cubase to 10.0.50 or above to get that problem fixed (which somehow was a Cubase version incompatibility).
So if you see the reverb is totally left panned update Cubase.


----------



## haus.media

Manuel Stumpf said:


> By the way:
> I used the template on Cubase 10.0.40 and had the problem that all reverb send panners were completely hard panned to the left side by default.
> I had to update Cubase to 10.0.50 or above to get that problem fixed (which somehow was a Cubase version incompatibility).
> So if you see the reverb is totally left panned update Cubase.



Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Lady Gaia

Fleer said:


> All-in-all, I get the most from FabFilter plugins, particularly their Pro-R reverb, Pro-C2 comp and Pro-Q3 EQ.



I picked up that exact combination over the holidays and couldn't be happier. Their user interfaces are incredibly thoughtful and make it trivial to get what I want from the underlying technology. I had to exercise some discipline to avoid getting even more before the sale was over. In particular, their limiter will be on my watch list for some future indulgence.


----------



## JJHLH

Lady Gaia said:


> I picked up that exact combination over the holidays and couldn't be happier. Their user interfaces are incredibly thoughtful and make it trivial to get what I want from the underlying technology. I had to exercise some discipline to avoid getting even more before the sale was over. In particular, their limiter will be on my watch list for some future indulgence.



I did the same, but also couldn’t resist the Limiter, MB, and Saturn.


----------



## Zedcars

​


----------



## Fleer

JJHLH said:


> I did the same, but also couldn’t resist the Limiter, MB, and Saturn.


Got them all in the end. They’re all very good indeed.


----------



## Zedcars

I haven't been able to figure this out yet, but does anyone know if it's possible to alter the volume of individual articulations independently within the same instance? I'm finding the trills on the a3 trumpets and solo are too quiet. I suppose I could add automation to the channel volume, but it would be less hassle to be able to adjust art details as you can with the VSL Synchron Player for example.


----------



## Brasart

Zedcars said:


> I haven't been able to figure this out yet, but does anyone know if it's possible to alter the volume of individual articulations independently within the same instance? I'm finding the trills on the a3 trumpets and solo are too quiet. I suppose I could add automation to the channel volume, but it would be less hassle to be able to adjust art details as you can with the VSL Synchron Player for example.



If you switch the Global setting to OFF in the mixer panel, couldn't you just lower the mic signal of the desired articulation?
I'm never using more than one articulation per track so I'm not sure if that would work as you intend

EDIT : or in your case, add something like 4db to the whole track and then bring everybody down from the mic page except both trills


----------



## Zedcars

Brasart said:


> If you switch the Global setting to OFF in the mixer panel, couldn't you just lower the mic signal of the desired articulation?
> I'm never using more than one articulation per track so I'm not sure if that would work as you intend
> 
> EDIT : or in your case, add something like 4db to the whole track and then bring everybody down from the mic page except both trills


Good idea. Seems obvious now you’ve said it! 

I’ll give it a try.


----------



## Fleer

Will BBCSO be compatible with Albion VI?


----------



## Bluemount Score

Fleer said:


> Will BBCSO be compatible with Albion VI?


What do you mean, compatible? If the sounds will match without mixing effort? I guess nobody here knows.


----------



## Brasart

If there's one thing I love about BBCSO is how I'm able to make it mesh with everything else I own, especially non-orchestral stuff, so I wouldn't worry much about both libraries being able to work together


----------



## Fleer

Thanks. I was thinking of different recording environments between the Albion series and BBCSO.


----------



## gussunkri

On Christian’s vlog he mentioned recording in Air, so no more and no less compatible with BBCSO than other Albion’s.


----------



## Fleer

gussunkri said:


> On Christian’s vlog he mentioned recording in Air, so no more and no less compatible with BBCSO than other Albion’s.


Has anyone successfully combined BBCSO with Albion V Tundra?


----------



## Christopher Rocky

A little late to the party but this is what i came up with using bbcso. all strings, brass, woods and most of the percussion is BBCSO. with plenty of underscore from other libs.


----------



## mralmostpopular

Brasart said:


> If there's one thing I love about BBCSO is how I'm able to make it mesh with everything else I own, especially non-orchestral stuff, so I wouldn't worry much about both libraries being able to work together



I haven’t gotten a chance yet, but I want to try it with some pop/rock stuff. You can really change the sound a lot based on the mic positions.


----------



## Bluemount Score

mralmostpopular said:


> I haven’t gotten a chance yet, but I want to try it with some pop/rock stuff. You can really change the sound a lot based on the mic positions.


Let us know how it went. Even though I really like how Mix 1 and 2 sound out of the box in a complete orchestral-setup-context, I'm starting to like the at first overwhelming possibilities of different mic options. Curious what else you can achieve with them in good hands.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Does anybody remember what mic positions (+ processing) are included in just Mix 1 and 2?


----------



## Zedcars

Bluemount Score said:


> Does anybody remember what mic positions (+ processing) are included in just Mix 1 and 2?







__





Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


:rofl: lol oops I would love to hear how it went with the CS patches.



vi-control.net


----------



## gussunkri

Bluemount Score said:


> Does anybody remember what mic positions (+ processing) are included in just Mix 1 and 2?


It’s in the manual somewhere


----------



## Bluemount Score

gussunkri said:


> It’s in the manual somewhere


Too bad I'm a little lazy and only read manuals if nessecary, instead of trying stuff out whereever possible. Zedcars found it


----------



## Fleer

mralmostpopular said:


> I haven’t gotten a chance yet, but I want to try it with some pop/rock stuff. You can really change the sound a lot based on the mic positions.


Would love to hear.


----------



## Noeticus

Someone must post here at least once a day. Think of it as watering a plant etc.


----------



## John R Wilson

Noeticus said:


> Someone must post here at least once a day. Think of it as watering a plant etc.



This thread must hit at least 8000 posts!


----------



## Fleer

Let’s shut down at 7999. No reason to drag it out unless there are some tasty tidbits, chocolatey or otherwise.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

Has anyone found a mic configuration for the brass in particular that sound good to them? I quite like Mix 2 as it is, but was wondering if someone has had success in experimenting with the positions.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

If anyone is curious, this is what I came up with using mostly the BBCSO.


----------



## AEF

MarcHedenberg said:


> If anyone is curious, this is what I came up with using mostly the BBCSO.




Which mics did you use? I really enjoyed this!


----------



## MarcHedenberg

AEF said:


> Which mics did you use? I really enjoyed this!



For most of the layers, I just used Mix 2. For some of the shorts, particularly the strings, I used a a mixture of close and tree + ambient mics. 

But yeah, Mix 2...can't go wrong with that.


----------



## AEF

MarcHedenberg said:


> For most of the layers, I just used Mix 2. For some of the shorts, particularly the strings, I used a a mixture of close and tree + ambient mics.
> 
> But yeah, Mix 2...can't go wrong with that.



Thanks! Great piece, and really presents the brass well!


----------



## MarcHedenberg

AEF said:


> Thanks! Great piece, and really presents the brass well!



Thanks!!!


----------



## MarcHedenberg

AEF said:


> Thanks! Great piece, and really presents the brass well!



I should actually mention that the brass in the last 30-40 seconds are CSB mixed with BBCSO brass. I needed them to go one dynamic higher and I just couldn't get the sound I wanted without mixing the CSB horns in...


----------



## ed buller

MarcHedenberg said:


> I should actually mention that the brass in the last 30-40 seconds are CSB mixed with BBCSO brass. I needed them to go one dynamic higher and I just couldn't get the sound I wanted without mixing the CSB horns in...


hear your pain !

ed


----------



## mralmostpopular

MarcHedenberg said:


> Has anyone found a mic configuration for the brass in particular that sound good to them? I quite like Mix 2 as it is, but was wondering if someone has had success in experimenting with the positions.



I use a combination of tree, close wide, and spill mics. It gives you a sense of being in the room. Mix 2 with spill is also great.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

mralmostpopular said:


> I use a combination of tree, close wide, and spill mics. It gives you a sense of being in the room. Mix 2 with spill is also great.



Does that kill your memory and CPU usage on a full template?


----------



## mralmostpopular

MarcHedenberg said:


> Does that kill your memory and CPU usage on a full template?



I’ve only had one project that got a little overloaded. I’m working with 32GB. It was fine until I added some kontakt instruments. I ended up freezing the Kontakt tracks and that solved it. To be honest, I hadn’t done a great job of purging articulations on a bunch of tracks, so it probably wouldn’t have hiccuped had I done so.


----------



## AEF

MarcHedenberg said:


> I should actually mention that the brass in the last 30-40 seconds are CSB mixed with BBCSO brass. I needed them to go one dynamic higher and I just couldn't get the sound I wanted without mixing the CSB horns in...



ahh makes sense. really enjoyed the brass in this.


----------



## Fleer

mralmostpopular said:


> I’ve only had one project that got a little overloaded. I’m working with 32GB. It was fine until I added some kontakt instruments. I ended up freezing the Kontakt tracks and that solved it. To be honest, I hadn’t done a great job of purging articulations on a bunch of tracks, so it probably wouldn’t have hiccuped had I done so.


Would you therefore advise 64GB RAM?


----------



## mralmostpopular

Fleer said:


> Would you therefore advise 64GB RAM?



It depends on how many tracks you want to use with a lot of mics. 32GB will work running your tracks efficiently, but 64GB will give you a lot more flexibility. I will probably upgrade to 64GB at some point. I can only speak for Mac, though.


----------



## Christopher Rocky

I have 32gb, on my track i had almost every bbcso instrument loaded (in the cubase template) (then added a few more bbcso instances of my own) 
I did remove any artics i wasnt using, i also had about 10 kontakt instances. 
I used mix 2 and added the close mic on a few solo instruments and string legato. 

but i found that if i wanted to add 3+ mics on one instance with everything in my session loaded, 
that was when the cracks and loading problems started (even running off an SSD) and even though it said i had a handful of GB to spare in task manager. 
there seems to be some sort of phantom GB buffer usage on playback i think?


----------



## MarcHedenberg

ChristopherRock said:


> I have 32gb, on my track i had almost every bbcso instrument loaded (in the cubase template) (then added a few more bbcso instances of my own)
> I did remove any artics i wasnt using, i also had about 10 kontakt instances.
> I used mix 2 and added the close mic on a few solo instruments and string legato.
> 
> but i found that if i wanted to add 3+ mics on one instance with everything in my session loaded,
> that was when the cracks and loading problems started (even running off an SSD) and even though it said i had a handful of GB to spare in task manager.
> there seems to be some sort of phantom GB buffer usage on playback i think?




Now I'm actually kind of curious what CPU you guys are using. I'm on a Ryzen 7 3700x, but I see it maxing out frequently at 100%.


----------



## Bluemount Score

MarcHedenberg said:


> If anyone is curious, this is what I came up with using mostly the BBCSO.



Damn I absolutely love this... that's my genre!! Thank you for sharing!

I found the cymbals / piatti a bit sharp / overwhelming here and there, but overall... amazing. Especially towards the end. Even though it needed CSB's support.

At around 2:30, that's still BBCSO brass?


----------



## Christopher Rocky

MarcHedenberg said:


> Now I'm actually kind of curious what CPU you guys are using. I'm on a Ryzen 7 3700x, but I see it maxing out frequently at 100%.


Ive just got a 6700k overclocked to 4.6khz permanently, due for a dredded upgrade soon. whats getting the 3700x maxing out? bbcso template with everything loaded?


----------



## MarcHedenberg

Bluemount Score said:


> Damn I absolutely love this... that's my genre!! Thank you for sharing!
> 
> I found the cymbals / piatti a bit sharp / overwhelming here and there, but overall... amazing. Especially towards the end. Even though it needed CSB's support.
> 
> At around 2:30, that's still BBCSO brass?



Yeah, I'm working on toning the cymbals down a wee bit.

It's actually both CSB and BBCSO. I needed CSB's higher dynamic, so the volume on that is lower than BBCSO brass. It's taken me a while to get to appropriate levels haha!


----------



## MarcHedenberg

ChristopherRock said:


> Ive just got a 6700k overclocked to 4.6khz permanently, due for a dredded upgrade soon. whats getting the 3700x maxing out? bbcso template with everything loaded?




I've got the template loaded with every instrument, but with a lot of the articulations removed. It's been puzzling me for a while. Sometimes, restarting my computer resolves the issue temporarily. Kinda tells me it's a RAM issue but my memory isn't normally going past 80-90% when all instruments are playing at once (I have 40GB).


----------



## Noeticus

This thread will last a little while longer.


----------



## jonvog

I thought, I'd leave this here. Everything is BBCSO (besides the chimes...). Basically just a little study exploring lydian-b7.


----------



## Brasart

jonvog said:


> I thought, I'd leave this here. Everything is BBCSO (besides the chimes...). Basically just a little study exploring lydian-b7.




Great piece!

Homay's video got me thinking about re-orchestrating with BBCSO the only waltz I've ever written for a game a few years ago, I hope I'll be able to work on it enough to share it here!


----------



## Oxytoxine

Rather superficial, but on the point, good and honest review


----------



## AEF

I would kill for spitfire to give the player a purge function. Would be a huge workflow enhancer, IMO.


----------



## Fleer

^^^This


----------



## Noeticus

Ladies and Gentlemen. Post 8000 will start in quite a few moments.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Noeticus said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen. Post 8000 will start in quite a few moments.


Don’t worry, we’ll get there. There’s still the piano to be released and the resulting arguments about dynamic layers. 😀


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> Unless of course I delete all my posts from this thread. Mwah ha ha ha haaaa.


But just think of the chocolate!!!!!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Unless of course I delete all my posts from this thread. Mwah ha ha ha haaaa.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


>


Might want to check what just happened ^^^


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> Might want to check what just happened ^^^


NOOOOoooooooooo!!!!!!


----------



## Alex Fraser

dzilizzi said:


> NOOOOoooooooooo!!!!!!


Wait, what!?! I feel somehow the loop and myself aren’t in alignment..


----------



## dzilizzi

Alex Fraser said:


> Wait, what!?! I feel somehow the loop and myself aren’t in alignment..


There's an empty spot in the Force, like a post has been deleted....


----------



## Fleer

Wouldn’t that be a thing? Delete all non-chocolatey posts and be done with it.


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> There's an empty spot in the Force, like a post has been deleted....


@Alex Fraser Did you not feel a great disturbance in the Force? As if millions of posts suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced...

(actually it was only 1 but you get the idea lol)


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> @Alex Fraser Did you not feel a great disturbance in the Force? As if millions of posts suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced...
> 
> (actually it was only 1 but you get the idea lol)


I see. I have a new nemesis. His name is Darren. I’ll systematically delete my posts one by one to prevent the thread reaching the mythical 8000.

He will pay. 

You’ll all pay.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> I see. I have a new nemesis. His name is Darren. I’ll systematically delete my posts one by one to prevent the thread reaching the mythical 8000.
> 
> He will pay.
> 
> You’ll all pay.


I can’t actually be arsed...too much work.  

Just keeping the threat there as a means to extract valuable information as to the whereabouts of the secret BBCSO Piano and Bass Flute. I know you’re a double agent for Spitfire HQ, so I suggest you pull a few piano strings my friend or the thread total gets it...

*draws finger across throat*


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> I can’t actually be arsed...too much work.
> 
> Just keeping the threat there as a means to extract valuable information as to the whereabouts of the secret BBCSO Piano and Bass Flute. I know you’re a double agent for Spitfire HQ, so I suggest you pull a few piano strings my friend or the thread total gets it...
> 
> *draws finger across throat*


Haha! If I was a double agent, I’d have the damn library already! 😃


----------



## redlester

Nothing to add really, except we can't have this thread dropping down to page three simply because Spitfire now have an additional toy on show!


----------



## Bluemount Score

redlester said:


> Nothing to add really, except we can't have this thread dropping down to page three simply because Spitfire now have an additional toy on show!


Yes, but it is not the next chapter, like or beloved BBCSO 

...hold on, it is


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> Nothing to add really, except we can't have this thread dropping down to page three simply because Spitfire now have an additional toy on show!


Have you treated yourself to a new toy? 😉


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> Have you treated yourself to a new toy? 😉



Not yet, no panic to pre-order but it reminds me of the days of going into record shops knowing I was going to come out with a load more stuff I wanted whether I needed it or not, and still having not fully listened to the last ten LP’s I bought.


----------



## sunetti

Apologies for interrupting the, uhh, riveting conversation about chocolate.. 

Has anyone had any issues with certain controllers being fully activated when pressing the play, record and stop buttons on their Komplete Kontrol 2 in Cubase 10.5?

- Play triggers release
- Record triggers tightness 
- Stop triggers reverb

This makes it hard to record on the KK when these controls are constantly being turned up all the way.


----------



## redlester

sunetti said:


> Apologies for interrupting the, uhh, riveting conversation about chocolate..



Well it's certainly been a Marathon Topic!



> Has anyone had any issues with certain controllers being fully activated when pressing the play, record and stop buttons on their Komplete Kontrol 2 in Cubase 10.5?
> 
> - Play triggers release
> - Record triggers tightness
> - Stop triggers reverb
> 
> This makes it hard to record on the KK when these controls are constantly being turned up all the way.



Sorry to be vague but am sure I've seen someone else mention this or a similar problem, either on this or another thread. Does it only happen with BBC SO or can you try any other Spitfire stand-alone products?


----------



## Zedcars

sunetti said:


> Apologies for interrupting the, uhh, riveting conversation about chocolate..
> 
> Has anyone had any issues with certain controllers being fully activated when pressing the play, record and stop buttons on their Komplete Kontrol 2 in Cubase 10.5?
> 
> - Play triggers release
> - Record triggers tightness
> - Stop triggers reverb
> 
> This makes it hard to record on the KK when these controls are constantly being turned up all the way.


In the BBCSO plugin CC 17, 18, and 19 controls release, tightness and reverb respectively. It must be either sending those controllers or Cubase it re-interpreting them as those numbers somehow? Sorry, don’t have a more specific answer.


----------



## sunetti

redlester said:


> Well it's certainly been a Marathon Topic!
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to be vague but am sure I've seen someone else mention this or a similar problem, either on this or another thread. Does it only happen with BBC SO or can you try any other Spitfire stand-alone products?





Zedcars said:


> In the BBCSO plugin CC 17, 18, and 19 controls release, tightness and reverb respectively. It must be either sending those controllers or Cubase it re-interpreting them as those numbers somehow? Sorry, don’t have a more specific answer.



Hmm it does the same thing for other Spitfire player products (OPW and LABS). Would it be possible to change/remove those CC values on the respective KK buttons?


----------



## Zedcars

sunetti said:


> Hmm it does the same thing for other Spitfire player products (OPW and LABS). Would it be possible to change/remove those CC values on the respective KK buttons?


This post seems similar to your problem. Hopefully it’s helpful?





__





SOLVED - Issue with Komplete Kontrol MKII S61 and/or Spitfire Player (BBC SO + Eric Whitacre Choir)


When I use the transport (start, stop, sometimes record and also metronome) buttons on my MKII S61 with the Spitifire player, both on BBC SO and with the fresh purchased Eric Whitacre Choir it triggers constantly the reverb (going from 0 to 100 and doesn't matter if I have midi cc active on the...



vi-control.net


----------



## sunetti

Zedcars said:


> This post seems similar to your problem. Hopefully it’s helpful?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOLVED - Issue with Komplete Kontrol MKII S61 and/or Spitfire Player (BBC SO + Eric Whitacre Choir)
> 
> 
> When I use the transport (start, stop, sometimes record and also metronome) buttons on my MKII S61 with the Spitifire player, both on BBC SO and with the fresh purchased Eric Whitacre Choir it triggers constantly the reverb (going from 0 to 100 and doesn't matter if I have midi cc active on the...
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



Oh, I must have missed this thread over the busy holiday period!

Such an easy fix. Thanks guys for the help!


----------



## Jaap

sunetti said:


> Apologies for interrupting the, uhh, riveting conversation about chocolate..
> 
> Has anyone had any issues with certain controllers being fully activated when pressing the play, record and stop buttons on their Komplete Kontrol 2 in Cubase 10.5?
> 
> - Play triggers release
> - Record triggers tightness
> - Stop triggers reverb
> 
> This makes it hard to record on the KK when these controls are constantly being turned up all the way.



Yes I actually had a similar problem

Disable"all midi in" for the Komplete Kontrol EXT and Komplete Kontrol DAW in the midi settings and to restart Cubase after that.
You can read the thread I created about this here: https://vi-control.net/community/th...bc-so-eric-whitacre-choir.88711/#post-4490003

Edit: I see others posted my link also already and that you saw it already  Good luck!


----------



## Fleer

Now about that piano ...


----------



## Zedcars

Fleer said:


> Now about that piano ...


I’ve been thinking about that elusive piano. I wonder if it’s been delayed for technical reasons - maybe there’s a problem with the scripting or some of the samples. Or maybe they are waiting for the right moment to release it in between other big announcements? Or maybe they just decided not to releases it? Although, Christian has said many times there is more to come in relation to this library ( I suppose that could be interpreted in different ways ie more walkthroughs/tutorials).


----------



## Brasart

I think it'll just take time, since the library is out it's probably not the highest priority right now.
I'm guessing they'll first release the next stability update, and then a big content update during the year


----------



## Bluemount Score

Brasart said:


> I think it'll just take time, since the library is out it's probably not the highest priority right now.
> I'm guessing they'll first release the next stability update, and then a big content update during the year


I think so too... NEO was the priority lately and there was lots of new stuff during christmas


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Ashermusic said:


> Mine too.



Hey Jay, do you use Clariphonic with orchestral music? I've had my eye on this.


----------



## alfred tapscott

Hi all! Jumped off the thread some months ago, got to work on some tvshows and used my older template without BBCSO. 

These weeks I got some time to redo the template, and after setting everything out...I get so many clicks and pops is pretty unusable. Have the latest version of the plugin, v1.07, optimized library.

I9 7960X 32 core, 128gb 2666ram, pcie NVME drives for the libraries. win10 ,cubase 10.5. Have problems running from VEP7 and inside Cubase. No issues with kontakt stuff. 

It's a shame that I get such a poor performance after spending many days building the template, even up to 512kb buffer. Any suggestions?? Asio Guard off, multiprocessor on...

Any suggestions??. Went some pages behind but couldn't find solutions, my apologies if it has been widely discussed, It's hard to find with almost 400 pages!

Thanks very much!!

Alfred


----------



## Brasart

alfred tapscott said:


> Hi all! Jumped off the thread some months ago, got to work on some tvshows and used my older template without BBCSO.
> 
> These weeks I got some time to redo the template, and after setting everything out...I get so many clicks and pops is pretty unusable. Have the latest version of the plugin, v1.07, optimized library.
> 
> I9 7960X 32 core, 128gb 2666ram, pcie NVME drives for the libraries. win10 ,cubase 10.5. Have problems running from VEP7 and inside Cubase. No issues with kontakt stuff.
> 
> It's a shame that I get such a poor performance after spending many days building the template, even up to 512kb buffer. Any suggestions?? Asio Guard off, multiprocessor on...
> 
> Any suggestions??. Went some pages behind but couldn't find solutions, my apologies if it has been widely discussed, It's hard to find with almost 400 pages!
> 
> Thanks very much!!
> 
> Alfred



It's hard to tell, what are your BBCSO audio settings?
You should try to contact Spitfire support too with your specs


----------



## Zedcars

alfred tapscott said:


> Hi all! Jumped off the thread some months ago, got to work on some tvshows and used my older template without BBCSO.
> 
> These weeks I got some time to redo the template, and after setting everything out...I get so many clicks and pops is pretty unusable. Have the latest version of the plugin, v1.07, optimized library.
> 
> I9 7960X 32 core, 128gb 2666ram, pcie NVME drives for the libraries. win10 ,cubase 10.5. Have problems running from VEP7 and inside Cubase. No issues with kontakt stuff.
> 
> It's a shame that I get such a poor performance after spending many days building the template, even up to 512kb buffer. Any suggestions?? Asio Guard off, multiprocessor on...
> 
> Any suggestions??. Went some pages behind but couldn't find solutions, my apologies if it has been widely discussed, It's hard to find with almost 400 pages!
> 
> Thanks very much!!
> 
> Alfred


Try these settings:


Maximum Voices: 768 (Default 512)
Preload size: 6144 (Default 12288)
Stream Buffer Size: 8192 (Default 65536)
Maximum Pitch Voices: 12 (Default 8)

Originally posted by haus.media here:





__





Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


Here's the same track with all instruments changed to Mix 2. Didn't expect it to differ this much! Thank you for taking the time to do this! I tried to compensate for the difference in volume, but even so the difference was massive. I have been liking mix 1 a lot, but I must say, after...



vi-control.net





Also, make sure the little green loading light has turned green. Additionally, I actually have to play the samples for a few seconds before they play smoothly.


----------



## alfred tapscott

Zedcars said:


> Try these settings:
> 
> 
> Maximum Voices: 768 (Default 512)
> Preload size: 6144 (Default 12288)
> Stream Buffer Size: 8192 (Default 65536)
> Maximum Pitch Voices: 12 (Default 8)
> 
> Originally posted by haus.media here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra
> 
> 
> Here's the same track with all instruments changed to Mix 2. Didn't expect it to differ this much! Thank you for taking the time to do this! I tried to compensate for the difference in volume, but even so the difference was massive. I have been liking mix 1 a lot, but I must say, after...
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, make sure the little green loading light has turned green. Additionally, I actually have to play the samples for a few seconds before they play smoothly.


Oh, great, thank you very much! Will do! So, in general seems you people are pretty happy with the performance.


----------



## vdk-john

Just found this:


Did anyone else experience similar issues?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

vdk-john said:


> Just found this:
> 
> 
> Did anyone else experience similar issues?




I have not had this happen but looks crazy! I mostly use Cubase though so maybe an AU thing? Hope he reported it directly to Spitfire.


----------



## Zedcars

I did have a similar thing happen a few days ago where a single sustained note on the celli played completely unprompted by any of my MIDI tracks when I tried to play back a woodwind section. I just restarted Cubase and it was ok, but I couldn’t figure out what happened. There were no celli programmed during that section, and I wasn’t accidentally depressing any notes on my keyboard either.

\_(.”)_/


----------



## Zedcars

alfred tapscott said:


> Oh, great, thank you very much! Will do! So, in general seems you people are pretty happy with the performance.


I am for the most part. But I’m on a Mac. I think Windows guys had more issues to begin with but it seems to be mostly ok for them too now.


----------



## Fleer

Another good review (if it wasn’t posted before): https://synthandsoftware.com/2020/01/spitfire-audio-bbc-symphony-orchestra-reviewed/


----------



## brenneisen

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Hope he reported it directly to Spitfire.



youtubers~


----------



## vdk-john

Hope he was being sarcastic 😝


----------



## Brasart

The french review from the cool guys at audiofanzine also just came out; it's the only (french) website from which I read tests and the likes: https://fr.audiofanzine.com/orchest...el-spitfire-audio-bbc-symphony-orchestra.html

It's rated 4,5/5 stars, here's a quick translation of pros and cons:

PROS :

• Complete orchestra
• Audio quality
• Lots of articulations
• Lots of mics
• Nice interface
• Good price in regards to its content

CONS :

• No ensemble patch
• No divisi
• Laborious download _(they comment that it wasn't as fast as it should have been using a fiber connection)_
• Takes up a lot of storage
• Their own plugin needs to be polished


----------



## dcoscina

My review of BBCSO for Film Score Monthly Online should be out in the February issue.


----------



## Loïc D

Brasart said:


> The french review from the cool guys at audiofanzine also just came out; it's the only (french) website from which I read tests and the likes: https://fr.audiofanzine.com/orchest...el-spitfire-audio-bbc-symphony-orchestra.html
> 
> It's rated 4,5/5 stars, here's a quick translation of pros and cons:
> 
> PROS :
> 
> • Complete orchestra
> • Audio quality
> • Lots of articulations
> • Lots of mics
> • Nice interface
> • Good price in regards to its content
> 
> CONS :
> 
> • No ensemble patch
> • No divisi
> • Laborious download _(they comment that it wasn't as fast as it should have been using a fiber connection)_
> • Takes up a lot of storage
> • Their own plugin needs to be polished


Read that too. Nice one !
(Btw: where are you located ?)


----------



## Brasart

LowweeK said:


> Read that too. Nice one !
> (Btw: where are you located ?)



20min ride from Paris in the 78 !


----------



## artomatic

I'm at the point now that I'm really missing additional dynamic layers, especially the "ff"s.
Just sayin'...


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Hi all - curious if there are any Logic users here that would be willing to share their templates? Christian's is nice, but doesn't have articulation maps unfortunately. Cheers!


----------



## dcoscina

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Hi all - curious if there are any Logic users here that would be willing to share their templates? Christian's is nice, but doesn't have articulation maps unfortunately. Cheers!


That’s why I use the Cubase one. I’ve used the Logic one as well but the Cubase expression maps are brilliant.


----------



## dcoscina

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Hi all - curious if there are any Logic users here that would be willing to share their templates? Christian's is nice, but doesn't have articulation maps unfortunately. Cheers!


I bought the Art Conductor thing from Babylon Waves but it doesn’t work right with BBC. I find I have to edit the articulation switches....


----------



## Jaap

dcoscina said:


> I bought the Art Conductor thing from Babylon Waves but it doesn’t work right with BBC. I find I have to edit the articulation switches....



They work fine here for me (also bought them recently).
Edit: or are you talking about Logic?


----------



## Alex Fraser

dcoscina said:


> I bought the Art Conductor thing from Babylon Waves but it doesn’t work right with BBC.  I find I have to edit the articulation switches....


Pretty sure the Babylon maps are designed for the default keyswitch settings in the BBCSO plugin. The CH template uses different keyswitch mappings. 

If I’ve read your post right of course. 😉


----------



## dcoscina

Alex Fraser said:


> Pretty sure the Babylon maps are designed for the default keyswitch settings in the BBCSO plugin. The CH template uses different keyswitch mappings.
> 
> If I’ve read your post right of course. 😉


Oh so that's what it is! Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## babylonwaves

dcoscina said:


> I bought the Art Conductor thing from Babylon Waves but it doesn’t work right with BBC. I find I have to edit the articulation switches....


@dcoscina - send me a PM and let me know what's not working so we can compare findings. I don't have the template they've put out, so I can't comment on that though. Our maps are designed for the instruments which come with the download.

Edit: @Alex Fraser - you were faster


----------



## dcoscina

babylonwaves said:


> @dcoscina - send me a PM and let me know what's not working so we can compare findings. I don't have the template they've put out, so I can't comment on that though. Our maps are designed for the instruments which come with the download.
> 
> Edit: @Alex Fraser - you were faster


Thanks! Alex's post cleared up the confusion.


----------



## Zedcars

*EDIT: SOLVED.*

Please can someone help me figure this out...pulling my hair out. Some weirdness just started happening with BBCSO in Cubase 10, on Mac Mojave.

Only one bassoon MIDI track soloed. There seems to be a ghost MIDI track playing back alongside the actual track MIDI. I looked up and down to see if I've something stupid like left another track soloed. No, all other tracks are muted. No other Parts hidden under the top Part on the track.

I even created a whole new track just to test and same thing. Cannot figure this out. Any ideas?

I'm at such a loss that I made a video:


----------



## Brasart

Zedcars said:


> Please can someone help me figure this out...pulling my hair out. Some weirdness just started happening with BBCSO in Cubase 10, on Mac Mojave.
> 
> Only one bassoon MIDI track soloed. There seems to be a ghost MIDI track playing back alongside the actual track MIDI. I looked up and down to see if I've something stupid like left another track soloed. No, all other tracks are muted. No other Parts hidden under the top Part on the track.
> 
> I even created a whole new track just to test and same thing. Cannot figure this out. Any ideas?
> 
> I'm at such a loss that I made a video:




Super weird indeed, don't think I've ever experienced a similar behavior with anything midi-related before.
Is it only happening with Bassoon? Could it be a Cubase thing? Did you check the midi routing?
Could there be some kind of midi automation being written by your midi controller as you play?


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> Please can someone help me figure this out...pulling my hair out. Some weirdness just started happening with BBCSO in Cubase 10, on Mac Mojave.
> 
> Only one bassoon MIDI track soloed. There seems to be a ghost MIDI track playing back alongside the actual track MIDI. I looked up and down to see if I've something stupid like left another track soloed. No, all other tracks are muted. No other Parts hidden under the top Part on the track.
> 
> I even created a whole new track just to test and same thing. Cannot figure this out. Any ideas?
> 
> I'm at such a loss that I made a video:



This sounds like a Cubase issue to me. I had to hunt down connections the other day to see why something was playing that I didn't expect to be playing. Probably midi is being sent from 2 places.


----------



## Zedcars

Brasart said:


> Super weird indeed, don't think I've ever experienced a similar behavior with anything midi-related before.
> Is it only happening with Bassoon? Could it be a Cubase thing? Did you check the midi routing?
> Could there be some kind of midi automation being written by your midi controller as you play?


Thanks. It's now gone - still mysterious though. I deleted/edited my post as didn't want to bother anyone/cause confusion.

But thanks for replying.


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> This sounds like a Cubase issue to me. I had to hunt down connections the other day to see why something was playing that I didn't expect to be playing. Probably midi is being sent from 2 places.


It's ok now. I think it was to do with a disabled track. I started deleted tracks to see if it would solve it and it seems too. Touch wood.


----------



## Zedcars

*EDIT: SOLVED.*

I spoke too soon. The problem is back! 

I'm going to have to go through this systematically track by track. But, it isn't making any sense at the moment. Maybe a repair in the Spitfire App would help?

Yeah, could be Cubase. But this has never happened before.


----------



## Zedcars

The horns a4 track is now playing back - but nothing is there in that section for it to play back - no MIDI data there, yet the audio is coming through on that track??


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Zedcars said:


> The horns a4 track is now playing back - but nothing is there in that section for it to play back - no MIDI data there, yet the audio is coming through on that track??



Sounds like an issue somebody else posted about earlier (or that YouTube fellow). Hope you report it to Spitfire!


----------



## dzilizzi

Zedcars said:


> The horns a4 track is now playing back - but nothing is there in that section for it to play back - no MIDI data there, yet the audio is coming through on that track??


There's a ghost in the machine!!!! 👻


----------



## gussunkri

Zedcars said:


> I spoke too soon. The problem is back!
> 
> I'm going to have to go through this systematically track by track. But, it isn't making any sense at the moment. Maybe a repair in the Spitfire App would help?
> 
> Yeah, could be Cubase. But this has never happened before.


Maybe, just to see if it is Cubase which is causing the problem, you should download the demo of Reaper (DAW). It has no limitations and it is very small. See if the same problems show up there.


----------



## Zedcars

*EDIT: SOLVED.*

Here is the second video of utter weirdness. No data on the track, yet, as you can see, it is playing something back:


----------



## Zedcars

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Sounds like an issue somebody else posted about earlier (or that YouTube fellow). Hope you report it to Spitfire!


I will do. I promise!


----------



## dzilizzi

On the track, where does it say the input is from? I can't really read it. Also, is there an input on SA's player? I've never actually got it to work on my computer. It thinks it is loaded properly in the SA installer and it does open, but then I always get an error because it can't find the libraries. 

I probably moved them. Or changed the location in the installer. Who knows. There isn't a reconnect to library option which is annoying. But that is another subject.


----------



## Tatu

Chord track?


----------



## Zedcars

Tatu said:


> Chord track?


Oh jeez...you beauty!

 


Apologies to everyone. I only used that for a visual reference - had no idea it actually caused other tracks to play back using the chords. What a dummy!


----------



## barteredbride

Hi everyone, sorry for the basic question...

But while we´re talking about the Cubase BBCSO template, I´m still getting my head around working in this way...but what are the Print tracks for?

How do I exactly print the track? Is it the whole of the midi data from each stem or something?

Many many thanks!! 


EDIT: I´m on PC by the way, if that makes any difference.


----------



## dzilizzi

Isn't a print track just a bounced track with all the FX included? Or is it a freeze track. I know it's used to cut down the RAM. But maybe also for stems.


----------



## redlester

barteredbride said:


> Hi everyone, sorry for the basic question...
> 
> But while we´re talking about the Cubase BBCSO template, I´m still getting my head around working in this way...but what are the Print tracks for?
> 
> How do I exactly print the track? Is it the whole of the midi data from each stem or something?
> 
> Many many thanks!!
> 
> 
> EDIT: I´m on PC by the way, if that makes any difference.



From 7’29” in this video Christian describes how the print tracks work. This is Logic but I assume Cubase is very similar.


----------



## barteredbride

redlester said:


> From 7’29” in this video Christian describes how the print tracks work. This is Logic but I assume Cubase is very similar.



Cool cheers!! Must have missed that bit.


----------



## redlester

The festival of the 400th page approaches. Can we make it before Brexit happens!?


----------



## Brasart

redlester said:


> The festival of the 400th page approaches. Can we make it before Brexit happens!?



I wonder what impact will Brexit have on Spitfire, british composers, british cinema & the real BBC Orchestra.
What a sad day, my sympathies to everyone who didn't want to leave.


----------



## Zedcars

Brasart said:


> I wonder what impact will Brexit have on Spitfire, british composers, british cinema & the real BBC Orchestra.
> What a sad day, my sympathies to everyone who didn't want to leave.


Thanks. Very sad day indeed.

However, whilst all those things are very important, my main concern is whether we’ll still be allowed to enter the Eurovision Song Contest. And even if we are, will we forever suffer the humiliation of nil points [sic] because they hate us even more now, even if the song was a Beatles-esque masterpiece of epic proportions penned by Lennon and Harrison in heaven, and sung by Aphrodite herself with Satan on drums, keys, bass and guitars (and bvox).


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Thanks. Very sad day indeed.
> 
> However, whilst all those things are very important, my main concern is whether we’ll still be allowed to enter the Eurovision Song Contest. And even if we are, will we forever suffer the humiliation of nil points [sic] because they hate us even more now, even if the song was a Beatles-esque masterpiece of epic proportions penned by Lennon and Harrison in heaven, and sung by Aphrodite herself with Satan on drums, keys, bass and guitars (and bvox).



We might actually win it now. Puppet on a String and Congratulations were pre-Common Market!


----------



## vdk-john

redlester said:


> The festival of the 400th page approaches. Can we make it before Brexit happens!?



It won't actually really happen till the end of the year anyway and I can easily see that being postponed, so there's time


----------



## redlester

vdk-john said:


> I can easily see that being postponed, so there's time



If only.


----------



## redlester

Regarding the template and keyswitches issue, I started to experiment earlier with replacing instances of the plugin within the template using the current version of the plugin, then deleting the relevant articulations - but I noticed in some cases the process of deleting articulations actually took out the keyswitches for the remaining ones! If they need to be manually set up for each track after deleting articulations that would be a mammoth task, and perhaps why Spitfire have not done it themselves?


----------



## redlester

I should add to the above, this was happening on the Legato patches, have not had time to try others yet.


----------



## Noeticus

The legendary black beast of the 8000th post is coming!

Aaaaarrrrrrggghhh!


----------



## Fleer

But will we still be on the same page (400)?


----------



## TGV

Fleer said:


> But will we still be on the same page (400)?


It's the last post of page 400. So we'll be one the same page, but fleetingly.


----------



## Fleer

Pardon my nooby French but is it always better to download from Spitfire using a 750 Mbps Ethernet connection than a 100 Mbps WIFI one? Or is there a “Spitfire download speed limit”?


----------



## Zedcars

Fleer said:


> Pardon my nooby French but is it always better to download from Spitfire using a 750 Mbps Ethernet connection than a 100 Mbps WIFI one? Or is there a “Spitfire download speed limit”?


Why not test it?


----------



## Fleer

That’s an idea


----------



## Alex Fraser

Fleer said:


> Pardon my nooby French but is it always better to download from Spitfire using a 750 Mbps Ethernet connection than a 100 Mbps WIFI one? Or is there a “Spitfire download speed limit”?


It’s amazon aws servers anyway, so no limit. Moooarr Powwahh.


----------



## ridgero

What happened to https://www.spitfireaudiothepage.com/ ???

No new content for months now, I thought it was their most ambitious project?

It‘s a pity...


----------



## Brasart

ridgero said:


> What happened to https://www.spitfireaudiothepage.com/ ???
> 
> No new content for months now, I thought it was their most ambitious project?
> 
> It‘s a pity...



I hope they update it soon, maybe there's a lack of engagement from people too, a real dedicated platform like pianobook could be useful


----------



## Oliver

thats also one reason why i didn't get that hype for this library...


----------



## Fleer

Brasart said:


> I hope they update it soon, maybe there's a lack of engagement from people too, a real dedicated platform like pianobook could be useful


Good idea. Love that pianobook platform.


----------



## John R Wilson

Fleer said:


> Good idea. Love that pianobook platform.



I've also been waiting for updates to the page.


----------



## TechHarlan

Made this today. 
All BBCSO Mix 1 except for the low hits and chimes!


----------



## cqd

ridgero said:


> What happened to https://www.spitfireaudiothepage.com/ ???
> 
> No new content for months now, I thought it was their most ambitious project?
> 
> It‘s a pity...



It's almost like it was just a marketing ploy..


----------



## prodigalson

Simone95 said:


> Made this today.
> All BBCSO Mix 1 except for the low hits and chimes!




Lol very nice. BBCSO sounds quite good in this context.


----------



## Alex Fraser

cqd said:


> It's almost like it was just a marketing ploy..


I think there’s good intentions behind the page. As a part time web dev, I can tell you that the page was bolted together in a hurry.

Maybe the idea will be expanded upon into some major community push involving Pianobook too. 

Also, are we there yet?


----------



## Fleer

Close, but no cigar.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I gift the next post..


----------



## cqd

...


----------



## Brasart

... or maybe... things take time to produce... content creation is a full-time job... and they will update it and not the whole world is just some marketing conspiracy... and also there's a 400 page 8000 posts thread of people sharing tips and music... (congrats guys!)


----------



## AEF

Brasart said:


> ... or maybe... things take time to produce... content creation is a full-time job... and they will update it and not the whole world is just some marketing conspiracy... and also there's a 400 page 8000 posts thread of people sharing tips and music... (congrats guys!)



they released it over four months ago. they released an entirely new “game changing” product since then. 

its fairly obvious that part of the deal with bbc was to make it “educational” and they did the bare minimum to keep up that end of the bargain.


----------



## Fleer

I beg to differ. As far as I know this is the first time such a famous orchestra was used for such a v(a)st undertaking, so I feel we’ve only witnessed the beginning of BBCSO.


----------



## John R Wilson

Fleer said:


> I beg to differ. As far as I know this is the first time such a famous orchestra was used for such a v(a)st undertaking, so I feel we’ve only witnessed the beginning of BBCSO.



I hope this is the case. It has already been mentioned that their is lots more planned for the BBCSO.


----------



## jbuhler

Fleer said:


> I beg to differ. As far as I know this is the first time such a famous orchestra was used for such a v(a)st undertaking, so I feel we’ve only witnessed the beginning of BBCSO.


Sure, but SF really should have assigned someone to look after the Page a bit better.


----------



## pfmusic

I see there's an update for BBCSO on the Spitfire app.


----------



## Brasart

Indeed, every instrument is updated to 1.0.8, and BBC plugin is updated to 1.0.9, thanks for the heads up.
I don't see patch notes within Spitfire's installer though, so if anyone has any info please share!


----------



## Cormast

Brasart said:


> Indeed, every instrument is updated to 1.0.8, and BBC plugin is updated to 1.0.9, thanks for the heads up.
> I don't see patch notes within Spitfire's installer though, so if anyone has any info please share!


It's written in your file : Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra/Documents/Release Notes.html


----------



## John R Wilson

There is definitely changes to the tightness setting on the Strings Spic and Stac. Just updated it to 1.0.9


----------



## Brasart

Cormast said:


> It's written in your file : Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra/Documents/Release Notes.html



Thanks, never knew they handle it this way


----------



## Jaap

Checked that release notes file, but it isn't updated yet with the latest release.
I checked the celli leader sustain instrument, as I reported it that on the C#2 and D2 you hear quite a clear "sssttt" paper like sound on release (with cc1 between 0 - 64) and that seems to be a bit less, not fixed, but happily not as audible as it was.

Would be nice if they put up the release notes in the player, so that you can see them before updating.


----------



## AEF

Has the Vln I Leader legato been addressed? its shamefully poor.

spitfire legatos in general are generations behind css, afflatus, and OT. really only useable for sustains.


----------



## jbuhler

AEF said:


> spitfire legatos in general are generations behind css, afflatus, and OT. really only useable for sustains.


I can't speak to the BBCSO Vln I legato, since I don't have it, but this is just not true of SF in general. SF's legatos may not be to your liking, but that's another question. I almost always prefer the SF legatos to the OT legatos, for instance.


----------



## AEF

jbuhler said:


> I can't speak to the BBCSO Vln I legato, since I don't have it, but this is just not true of SF in general. SF's legatos may not be to your liking, but that's another question. I almost always prefer the SF legatos to the OT legatos, for instance.



Which SF library do you find has the best legatos? I think OT is closer to SF in terms of legato, but still superior. The string legato patches in BBCSO in general are poorly scripted.


----------



## John R Wilson

AEF said:


> Which SF library do you find has the best legatos? I think OT is closer to SF in terms of legato, but still superior. The string legato patches in BBCSO in general are poorly scripted.



I do hope that they improve the String legatos on the BBCSO.


----------



## John R Wilson

AEF said:


> Has the Vln I Leader legato been addressed? its shamefully poor.
> 
> spitfire legatos in general are generations behind css, afflatus, and OT. really only useable for sustains.



Believe that the Legatos are the same in the new 1.0.9 update.


----------



## jbuhler

I like legatos when I don't notice them, when the connection between notes just sounds right, and that's the case for almost all my SF legatos, except maybe SSS. The SF legatos don't generally stand up and take bows at how great they sound, that's true, but I also rarely have to think about them. (I do wish they had a rebow legato.) The legatos in Berlin Strings give me issues, as do the strings in the Arks. The legatos in CSS sound great of course (I don't have the library), but you also hear lots of complaints about the delay, and some folks seem not to be able to get them to work in their music.


----------



## apollinaire

Speaking of updates, what's the most efficient way to update this library when there are 2 copies different HD's (for use on 2 separate computer systems)? The SF app shows an update once, so what needs to be copied over to the 2nd HD? Thanks.


----------



## AEF

jbuhler said:


> I like legatos when I don't notice them, when the connection between notes just sounds right, and that's the case for almost all my SF legatos, except maybe SSS. The SF legatos don't generally stand up and take bows at how great they sound, that's true, but I also rarely have to think about them. (I do wish they had a rebow legato.) The legatos in Berlin Strings give me issues, as do the strings in the Arks. The legatos in CSS sound great of course (I don't have the library), but you also hear lots of complaints about the delay, and some folks seem not to be able to get them to work in their music.



I see your point.

I would only say for me the purpose of Legato patches is to play espressivo soli lines. SF performs poorly for those, IMO. For anything else where I dont want a noticeable legato transition, I’ll use a sustains/longs patch.


----------



## jbuhler

AEF said:


> I see your point.
> 
> I would only say for me the purpose of Legato patches is to play espressivo soli lines. SF performs poorly for those, IMO. For anything else where I dont want a noticeable legato transition, I’ll use a sustains/longs patch.


That's one of the functions of legato, I agree, and it can definitely be an important one. But another is to connect the line in a more convincing manner than using a series of longs. The SF legatos sound different from just lining up a series of longs, but they are also mostly unobtrusive. That generally works well for the kinds of things I do.


----------



## AEF

jbuhler said:


> That's one of the functions of legato, I agree, and it can definitely be an important one. But another is to connect the line in a more convincing manner than using a series of longs. The SF legatos sound different from just lining up a series of longs, but they are also mostly unobtrusive. That generally works well for the kinds of things I do.



great post and a testament to the idea that different tools work for different musical visions. thats why unfortunately we have to buy so many smh lol!


----------



## Fleer

Similar “unobtrusive” perspective here, as far as string legato style is concerned.


----------



## zolhof

Jaap said:


> Would be nice if they put up the release notes in the player, so that you can see them before updating.



Yes, a changelog in their Library Manager would be great! It was such an annoyance to have the BBCSO working (and to be fair, it now performs better than any other host I use) that I don't really want to update unless some big feature is added.


----------



## TechHarlan

Does anyone know what are the changes of version 1.0.9 ?


----------



## Fleer

I wonder if using Hollywood Diamond may somewhat cover the few remaining gaps while we’re waiting for coming updates.


----------



## Brasart

Fleer said:


> I wonder if using Hollywood Diamond may somewhat cover the few remaining gaps while we’re waiting for coming updates.



What gaps do you think need filling, except for the piano?


----------



## AndyP

Fleer said:


> I wonder if using Hollywood Diamond may somewhat cover the few remaining gaps while we’re waiting for coming updates.


I would say so. Some gaps can definitely be concealed.


----------



## AndyP

Brasart said:


> What gaps do you think need filling, except for the piano?


Brass shorts for example. I prefer the HO brass shorts over the BBSCO. String runs! The part I like best in BBCSO is the woodwinds. They sound very good. I think HO and BBCSO can be combined well (although HO works well with many libraries).


----------



## Brasart

AndyP said:


> Brass shorts for example. I prefer the HO brass shorts over the BBSCO. String runs! The part I like best in BBCSO is the woodwinds. They sound very good. I think HO and BBCSO can be combined well (although HO works well with many libraries).



I've used the brass fff layer from NI's full Symphony library, it's quite useful because they made alternate individuals articulations with only one layer (mf, ff... etc)
Otherwise I've used a bit of brass from Albion One if need be, but I almost never have to write loud brass parts so yeah.


----------



## Fleer

Albion One’s a good idea. I was also thinking of some quieter passages.


----------



## AndyP

Brasart said:


> I've used the brass fff layer from NI's full Symphony library, it's quite useful because they made alternate individuals articulations with only one layer (mf, ff... etc)
> Otherwise I've used a bit of brass from Albion One if need be, but I almost never have to write loud brass parts so yeah.


I find the dynamic transitions in HO easier to control. I still have problems with BBCSO which is probably due to the bumpy transition of the dynamic steps.


----------



## John R Wilson

Fleer said:


> I wonder if using Hollywood Diamond may somewhat cover the few remaining gaps while we’re waiting for coming updates.



This is exactly what I'm planning on doing  however, I am hoping they release some good updates for it soon.


----------



## John R Wilson

AndyP said:


> Brass shorts for example. I prefer the HO brass shorts over the BBSCO. String runs! The part I like best in BBCSO is the woodwinds. They sound very good. I think HO and BBCSO can be combined well (although HO works well with many libraries).



The woodwinds are also my favourite part of the library and the percussion is very nice as well. As you say HO works well with many other libraries so it should work quite well with the BBCSO.


----------



## Fleer

AndyP said:


> Brass shorts for example. I prefer the HO brass shorts over the BBSCO. String runs! The part I like best in BBCSO is the woodwinds. They sound very good. I think HO and BBCSO can be combined well (although HO works well with many libraries).


Indeed, and while HO doesn’t have great woodwinds, BBCSO is quite welcome there.


----------



## ridgero

I really like the BBCSO, it’s my favorite library at the moment, the overall sound is awesome, but I don’t like everything.

Disappointments: Sound of the Brass, especially Horns (which is usually my favorite instrument, but in BBCSO its my least favorite..., lack of muted Brass, few dynamic layers

Room for improvement: Customizable default settings for the Spitfire player. Its quite limited... I wish I could change the default Mic positions...


----------



## Cormast

Simone95 said:


> Does anyone know what are the changes of version 1.0.9 ?


Written in your file : Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra/Documents/Release Notes.html


----------



## Zedcars

Context to this reply:

In this other thread... https://vi-control.net/community/th...ox-sound-sketching-library.89943/post-4509411 I stated the following:

"I have every BBCSO art loaded using Mix 2, Full Spill mics and a couple of close mics and it’s around 16GB...". This was in reply to South Thames that BBCSO takes "[email protected]@k loads of RAM".

Then I was challenged by my statement by an opposing statement of "that's literally impossible":



ridgero said:


> That's literally impossible
> 
> I have a BBCSO only template with every single articulation incl. 2 Mic positions loaded and it takes 34GB RAM. (Mix 2 + Sp.Fl)
> 
> Christian Hensons full template takes around 16 GB RAM with only Mix 1, so my numbers make more sense.



So I set about going through my template jotting down the BBCSO mic settings for each instance (I understand duplicate instances will not draw extra RAM? Not 100% sure, but that would make sense).

My current RAM usage as displayed in the plugin itself is 16.6GB and that is the figure I was quoting. Doesn't make sense to me to quote the DAW RAM as that includes the DAW itself and you would run that regardless.






I have all articulations loaded and I used the following mics:

*Mix 2 and Sp. Fl:*
Piccolo (2 instances)
Flute (3 instances)
Flute a3
Oboe (2 instances)
Cor Anglais
Clarinet (2 instances)
Clarinet a3
Bass Clarinet
Bassoon (2 instances)
Contrabassoon
Horn (5 instances)
Horn a4 (4 instances)
Trumpet (3 instances)
Trombone (4 instances)
Trombone a3 (2 instances)
Bass Trombone
All untuned percussion - all separate instances: Snare Drum 1, Snare Drum 2, Military Drum, Tenor Drum, Cymbals, Piatti, Tam Tam.
All tuned percussion - all separate instances: Harp, Tubular Bells, Glockenspiel.
Violin 1 Leader (4 instances)
Violin 2 Leader (5 instances)
Viola Leader
Violins 1 (5 instances)
Violins 2 (2 instances)
Violas (2 instances)

*Balcony Mic only:*
Trumpet (2 instances)

*Mix 2, Close and Sp. Fl:*
Contrabass Trombone
Tuba
Contrabass Tuba
Cello Leader
Celli (instance 1)

*Close, CloseW, Stereo and Sp. Fl:*
Bass Drum 1

*Close and Stereo:*
Bass Drum 2

*Mix 1 only:*
Untuned Percussion
Anvil
Triangle
Tambourine
Toys
Crotales
Xylophone
Vibraphone
Marimba

*Close and Sp. Fl:*
Timpani (instance 1)

*Close, Stereo and Sp. Fl:*
Timpani (instance 2)

*Mix 2 and Close:*
Celli (instance 2)
Double Bass Leader
Double Basses

No way I can screenshot every mic position and post it here, so please take my word that this is accurate.

*These are my BBCSO plugin settings:*
Max Voices: 768
Preload Size: 6144
Stream Buffer Size: 8192
Maximum Pitch Voices: 12

@ridgero I think the discrepancy/disagreement is just down to the fact that we are quoting two different RAM amounts. You are quoting your total Logic usage, whereas I'm quoting the figure in the plugin. Also your settings could be different to mine.


----------



## Jaap

Cormast said:


> Written in your file : Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra/Documents/Release Notes.html



Though I updated everything, that file is not updated and only shows for me the info up to 1.0.7
Maybe you can share the update info that is in your file if yours is up to date?


----------



## Brasart

Jaap said:


> Though I updated everything, that file is not updated and only shows for me the info up to 1.0.7
> Maybe you can share the update info that is in your file if yours is up to date?


----------



## Jaap

Thanks!


----------



## Alex Fraser

So, we’re a little down the line since release. There’s nothing but a sad handful of toffee pennies left in the Quality Street tin. (Because I ate the rest..)

Who’s still using the BBCSO? Has it lived up to the hype? Been put to one side in favour of another? Anyone using it daily for commercial work? Who’s still in love?

Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts and insights.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> So, we’re a little down the line since release: The Spitfire marketing machine is directing its Eye of Sauron elsewhere. There’s nothing but a sad handful of toffee pennies left in the Quality Street tin..
> 
> Who’s still using the BBCSO? Has it lived up to the hype? Been put to one side in favour of another? Anyone using it daily for commercial work? Who’s still in love?
> 
> Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts and insights.


I love it. It’s not without its flaws which I’m struggling to sidestep. But it has improved my work considerably and allowed me to concentrate more on composing rather than mixing which I’m not so hot on.

I do have something to share which I plan to do within the next two weeks.

I do find the boundary between vibrato and non-vibrato too abrupt in many of the instruments. In other words, it seems to transition over only a couple of mod CC values so getting any smoothness or subtly is very hard (for me).

I also desperately need some vibrato on the solo trumpet. I’m having to fudge it, and it ain’t pretty.

So, still lots to explore and very happy with how it sounds and the updates that Spitfire have rolled out.

I don’t think SA have moved on from it at all. They just have other plates in the air and they are a business after all.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Alex Fraser said:


> Who’s still using the BBCSO?


Honestly I'm just getting into it, using it more now (bought it at intro price). I just realized two days ago how much I like the spiccato / staccato and general room tone of the strings. Very "classical". Also they fixed some timing issues in the recent update, I think. Didn't had timing problems since - some staccatos were out of tune (had a "pitch-down" feeling to them) but otherwise, great sound.
Before, I only used the (mostly solo) woodwinds, which I liked from the beginning. In fact, they are my main woodwinds now. I don't think I'll be best friends with the brass, ever. Because of the general quality in some patches, but mainly because of the missing ff layer, mentioned countless times before in this thread. And yes, I need it for my music (quite often). Few velocity layers aren't as big of a problem in the other sections, for me.
Had few crashes and a lagging DAW and high CPU since (with many BBCSO instances / a full loaded template) - but all in all, the sound and room tone is just so much my taste, I'll be using it much more in the future.
Still, waiting for the promised updates...


----------



## Bluemount Score

Satan is watching this thread


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> I love it. It’s not without its flaws which I’m struggling to sidestep. But it has improved my work considerably and allowed me to concentrate more on composing rather than mixing which I’m not so hot on.
> 
> I do have something to share which I plan to do within the next two weeks.
> 
> I do find the boundary between vibrato and non-vibrato too abrupt in many of the instruments. In other words, it seems to transition over only a couple of mod CC values so getting any smoothness or subtly is very hard (for me).
> 
> I also desperately need some vibrato on the solo trumpet. I’m having to fudge it, and it ain’t pretty.
> 
> So, still lots to explore and very happy with how it sounds and the updates that Spitfire have rolled out.
> 
> I don’t think SA have moved on from it at all. They just have other plates in the air and they are a business after all.


Thanks Zedcars, great insights. I've edited my original post as it read like I was accusing the BBCSO of being abandonware, which wasn't my intention.


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> So, we’re a little down the line since release: The Spitfire marketing machine is directing its Eye of Sauron elsewhere. There’s nothing but a sad handful of toffee pennies left in the Quality Street tin..
> 
> Who’s still using the BBCSO? Has it lived up to the hype? Been put to one side in favour of another? Anyone using it daily for commercial work? Who’s still in love?
> 
> Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts and insights.



I don't have anything like the amount of time available to play with it as I would like (applies to eveything, not just BBC), but still very impressed with it and it's the first thing I consider if I want to fanny around explore some creative time with any orchestral stuff.

Regarding the marketing, they haven't forgotten it; Spitfire have put out a tweet just an hour or so ago with a link to The Page.

Finally got round to actually finishing a track with it, which started off as a synthy Tangerine Dream rip-off idea but morphed into something completely different. Great fun to do, and I am very comfortable with the Spitfire interface now, despite all the flak it gets.


----------



## Jaap

Alex Fraser said:


> Who’s still using the BBCSO? Has it lived up to the hype? Been put to one side in favour of another? Anyone using it daily for commercial work? Who’s still in love?
> 
> Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts and insights.



Using it daily on a few productions albums I am working on and it I like it, it also blends nicely with other libs that I am using it with such as CSS, Time Macro, HZ Strings, Erich Whitacre Choir and does work well in hybrid situations as well. I really love the woodwinds and also string leader patches. All in all I am happy with the purchase.


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


>



Love this. Really nice mix of electronica and orchestra. Also in awe of your patience in putting together a 9 minute track!


----------



## Brasart

It's part of my day-to-day workflow, I love it and use it almost everywhere I can.

There's also something unique about BBCSO that makes me think about how I orchestrate my pieces - something I would pay way less attention to before -, it feels so positive to me, really makes me happy.

And finally, I welcome every update but wouldn't mind if it stayed the way it is now.


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> I don't have anything like the amount of time available to play with it as I would like (applies to eveything, not just BBC), but still very impressed with it and it's the first thing I consider if I want to fanny around explore some creative time with any orchestral stuff.
> 
> Regarding the marketing, they haven't forgotten it; Spitfire have put out a tweet just an hour or so ago with a link to The Page.
> 
> Finally got round to actually finishing a track with it, which started off as a synthy Tangerine Dream rip-off idea but morphed into something completely different. Great fun to do, and I am very comfortable with the Spitfire interface now, despite all the flak it gets.




Great piece. I'm always partial to a bit of Tangerine Dream myself.  I do think there might be two pieces in there that could be separated out and developed (the second half pretty much there already).

_*"The dream is always the same. Instead of going home, I go to the neighbors'. I ring, but nobody answers. The door is open, so I go inside. I'm looking around for the people, but nobody seems to be there. And then I hear the shower running, so I go upstairs to see what's what. Then I see her; this... girl, this incredible girl. I mean, what she's doing there I don't know, because she doesn't live there... but it's a dream, so I go with it. "Who's there?" she says. "Joel," I say. "What are you doing here?" "I don't know what I'm doing here; what are you doing here?" "I'm taking a shower," she says. Then I give her: "You want me to go?" "No," she says; "I want you to wash my back." So now, I'm gettin' enthusiastic about this dream. So I go to her, but she's hard to find through all the steam and stuff; I keep losing her. Finally I get to the door... and I... find myself in a room full of kids taking their college boards. I'm over three hours late; I've got two minutes to take the whole test. I've... just made a terrible mistake. I'll never get to college. My life is ruined. "*_


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> Love this. Really nice mix of electronica and orchestra. Also in awe of your patience in putting together a 9 minute track!



You can't do anything which is even slightly inspired by Tangerine Dream that isn't a long track!  

What surprised me is how nicely the BBC solo flute sounded alongside chords from the M-Tron flute patch!


----------



## Fleer

Have to say that BBCSO blends pretty well with EastWest Hollywood Brass.


----------



## redlester

Sorry to go off topic but just to conclude the Tangerine Dream references, this is how it’s done. Absolutely love this.


----------



## krockodundee

Edit: I tried this with my other libraries and none do it well! It has been a blind spot for me.Customer service reached out to me and were very helpful.

So - since SA seems to be a bit swamped right now I'll try here if that's ok.

Has anyone else noticed this strange artifact when playing a legato patch?

As soon as I play an interval higher than an octave, the transition is really strange - instead of transitioning from the low note to the high, it transitions from the low note, then to the note one octave above, then the final note. This happens on all the instruments (tried it at least with 15 patches). Some just has the artifact on one direction (like, it sounds good going up but then weird going down).

I've updated BBCSO to the latest version (1.0.9), don't know if it was there before.


----------



## Soundhound

I just used BBSCO on a job, which consisted of two separate pieces, for one they wanted Tangerine Dreamish and the other full on orchestral fireworks bombast-y. (How's that for staying in the flow of the thread!?) The first was synth, sound designy, etc. For the second I tried using BBCSO for the first on time an actual job and it did great! Well, the client was happy anyway, so I'm happy. 

BBCSO really did make things easy for an orchestral ignoramus like myself, much less muss and fuss than I'm used to writing orchestral (or as close as I get to that). Whoops just remembered I think I used some other horns on it, maybe Junkie XL or... not sure. 

It's actually gotten me interested in the whole Staffpad thing: Write notes, press button, hear music. But I need to buy a new mac before getting a new iPad. Plus I suck at writing time. Suck is an understatement. I've managed to get through life so far without writing rests...


----------



## redlester

krockodundee said:


> So - since SA seems to be a bit swamped right now I'll try here if that's ok.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed this strange artifact when playing a legato patch?
> 
> As soon as I play an interval higher than an octave, the transition is really strange - instead of transitioning from the low note to the high, it transitions from the low note, then to the note one octave above, then the final note. This happens on all the instruments (tried it at least with 15 patches). Some just has the artifact on one direction (like, it sounds good going up but then weird going down).
> 
> I've updated BBCSO to the latest version (1.0.9), don't know if it was there before.



I’ve noticed this but what you describe seems to only happen on mine if playing the keys at a reasonably high velocity. If I play more gently, it doesn’t happen. Perhaps something to do with the velocity options?

Edit: Scratch that. I think it's to do with how you play. If I input a legato sequence into the Logic piano roll, using the Force Legato command, it doesn't happen, regardless of velocity or anything else. If I play the keys with crossover of notes, i.e. first note still activated when I press the next, then it happens.


----------



## Gerbil

redlester said:


> Sorry to go off topic but just to conclude the Tangerine Dream references, this is how it’s done. Absolutely love this.



That's a lot of electricity. Could have probably just used a few instances of Omnisphere.


----------



## brenneisen

Gerbil said:


> That's a lot of electricity. Could have probably just used a few instances of Omnisphere.



omnisphere has no blinking lights, tho


----------



## redlester

Omnisphere on a Mac Pro wrapped in christmas tree lights?


----------



## Fleer

Or we could chant “BBCSO” Ottawan-style


----------



## AndyP

BBCSO is driving me crazy after I reorganized my hard drives.
I have two hard drives where the library is. One for my MacBook, one for my studio computer.
Now I wanted to work on the MacBook again and although the library is assigned to the correct path I can't load patches. Error #1, again.
Repair does not work because I supposedly used up all repair attempts.
I completely lose interest in this new player. I am about to delete the library and put Spitfire BBCSO (sorry, the library, not the company) on my blacklist.
How can they create such a user unfriendly system.
Just the fact that I can't use the same hard drive on two machines is an absurdity.
The name of the hard disk is identical and I did not change anything on the MacBook disk, only on the studio computer I copied the library to another hard disk.
Nuts!

And no, I don't use them at the same time.


----------



## AndyP

Alex Fraser said:


> Who’s still using the BBCSO? Has it lived up to the hype? Been put to one side in favour of another? Anyone using it daily for commercial work? Who’s still in love?


I would like to, but the new player makes me constantly a dash through the bill.
Love? Far from it.


----------



## gussunkri

I go back and forth between a MacBook and a stationary PC and I find that using vst3 works better in terms of cross-platform stability.


----------



## Denkii

AndyP said:


> BBCSO is driving me crazy after I reorganized my hard drives.
> I have two hard drives where the library is. One for my MacBook, one for my studio computer.
> Now I wanted to work on the MacBook again and although the library is assigned to the correct path I can't load patches. Error #1, again.
> Repair does not work because I supposedly used up all repair attempts.
> I completely lose interest in this new player. I am about to delete the library and put Spitfire BBCSO (sorry, the library, not the company) on my blacklist.
> How can they create such a user unfriendly system.
> Just the fact that I can't use the same hard drive on two machines is an absurdity.
> The name of the hard disk is identical and I did not change anything on the MacBook disk, only on the studio computer I copied the library to another hard disk.
> Nuts!
> 
> And no, I don't use them at the same time.


Works for me without any problems.


----------



## Brasart

AFAIK repairs are "authorisations" tokens, so if you ran out of them contact Spitfire to explain your issue so that they can give you more and help you with your issue


----------



## jamieboo

krockodundee said:


> So - since SA seems to be a bit swamped right now I'll try here if that's ok.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed this strange artifact when playing a legato patch?
> 
> As soon as I play an interval higher than an octave, the transition is really strange - instead of transitioning from the low note to the high, it transitions from the low note, then to the note one octave above, then the final note. This happens on all the instruments (tried it at least with 15 patches). Some just has the artifact on one direction (like, it sounds good going up but then weird going down).
> 
> I've updated BBCSO to the latest version (1.0.9), don't know if it was there before.



I don't have BBCSO so I don't know for sure, but in EW Hollywood there are no legato transitions larger than an octave. I guess this is because, during production, a line has to be drawn somewhere so as to avoid having to sample a legato transition between _every single note_ across an instrument's entire range.
I imagine the odd transitions you're noticing is just the programming script doing it's best to move between two notes for which there is no single legato transition available.


----------



## Bluemount Score

jamieboo said:


> I don't have BBCSO so I don't know for sure, but in EW Hollywood there are no legato transitions larger than an octave.


This is in fact the case of any true legato library I own


----------



## AndyP

Brasart said:


> AFAIK repairs are "authorisations" tokens, so if you ran out of them contact Spitfire to explain your issue so that they can give you more and help you with your issue


I wrote a ticket but don't expect an answer before Monday and until then I can't use the library mobile.
What annoys me is the maximum cumbersome authorization principle of this new spitfire player. With every third start something is either repaired, updated, reorganized, whatever. 
Other manufacturers show how it works better. Just the fact that you can't use one hard disk on 2 computers is a no go. This is an unnecessary additional cost. 
As long as SA maintains this principle I will not license any additional library that runs on this player.
Why limit the number of possible repairs? If there are only copy protection reasons, then SA has chosen the worst possible variant one can imagine.
This is, excuse me if I make it so clear, an exclusion criterion for me to buy more SA player libraries because it becomes unpredictable and the risk of not being able to use BBCSO on the road is too big for me. 

Everybody has to reorganize libraries and hard disks from time to time and this should be possible with a simple re-linking to the source. The license is on the computer anyway ...


----------



## Brasart

Spitfire Plugins - How do I use one hard drive with two machines?


Spitfire plug-in libraries are authorised per machine when installing. By default, you can not currently share a library between two computers from the same drive. We have detailed a workaround for...




spitfireaudio.zendesk.com





I understand your frustration, but I think you might be overthinking this; pretty much every software company only allows a very limited amount of installations; rarely some are nice enough to give you more if you ask for them, and right now I can only think of Spitfire and Ableton.

It just so happens that "Repair" is the name Spitfire gave to their authorization process, but maybe they could give a better explanation of what it does indeed.


----------



## AndyP

Brasart said:


> Spitfire Plugins - How do I use one hard drive with two machines?
> 
> 
> Spitfire plug-in libraries are authorised per machine when installing. By default, you can not currently share a library between two computers from the same drive. We have detailed a workaround for...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spitfireaudio.zendesk.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand your frustration, but I think you might be overthinking this; pretty much every software company only allows a very limited amount of installations; rarely some are nice enough to give you more if you ask for them, and right now I can only think of Spitfire and Ableton.
> 
> It just so happens that "Repair" is the name Spitfire gave to their authorization process, but maybe they could give a better explanation of what it does indeed.


It doesn't make sense because the software asks me to fix it without moving the library to another disk. 
I don't know why this error #1 occurs so often, it only happens on my MacBook.
The hard drive was not renamed. 
This does not happen on the studio computer.
Native Instruments lets me move a library to another source as often as I want. 
I don't reinstall the library, I use it on 2 computers on 2 different hard drives, never at the same time. This is simply bad programming, a bad workflow decision, unnecessarily complicated and cost intense for the user.
I know the link, thank you, and that is the reason why I use 2 hard drives. 
Anyway, I have enough other libraries I can use, I don't have to stop my work.


----------



## mariusch

AndyP said:


> BBCSO is driving me crazy after I reorganized my hard drives.
> I have two hard drives where the library is. One for my MacBook, one for my studio computer.
> Now I wanted to work on the MacBook again and although the library is assigned to the correct path I can't load patches. Error #1, again.
> Repair does not work because I supposedly used up all repair attempts.
> I completely lose interest in this new player. I am about to delete the library and put Spitfire BBCSO (sorry, the library, not the company) on my blacklist.
> How can they create such a user unfriendly system.
> Just the fact that I can't use the same hard drive on two machines is an absurdity.
> The name of the hard disk is identical and I did not change anything on the MacBook disk, only on the studio computer I copied the library to another hard disk.
> Nuts!
> 
> And no, I don't use them at the same time.



Hi,

Have exactly the same problem. Have also had problems with very slow loading every time I load a new instrument. (With ssd) I also need to repair the disk but need to contact spitfire again for the fourth time. Now I've been waiting since Thursday and still can't use bbc. I do not think this is acceptable. Have replaced all bbc samples with "berlin strings and brass". BBC is completely useless for now. Incredibly bad software. 

The support guys on spitfire needs to spend an incredible amount of time on this ...


----------



## prodigalson

AndyP said:


> BBCSO is driving me crazy after I reorganized my hard drives.
> I have two hard drives where the library is. One for my MacBook, one for my studio computer.
> Now I wanted to work on the MacBook again and although the library is assigned to the correct path I can't load patches. Error #1, again.
> Repair does not work because I supposedly used up all repair attempts.
> I completely lose interest in this new player. I am about to delete the library and put Spitfire BBCSO (sorry, the library, not the company) on my blacklist.
> How can they create such a user unfriendly system.
> Just the fact that I can't use the same hard drive on two machines is an absurdity.
> The name of the hard disk is identical and I did not change anything on the MacBook disk, only on the studio computer I copied the library to another hard disk.
> Nuts!
> 
> And no, I don't use them at the same time.



Heres a thread specifically on this issue with some input from spitfire





__





Why I despise the Spitfire Player...Rant alert.


I hate the Spitfire Audio Sample Player. But not for the same reasons as most. Yes, I think the giant knob that requires you to click on it to reassign it's functions (even though there's about 12 square inches of empty space next to it) is silly. But I don't really care that much Yes, the...




vi-control.net


----------



## krockodundee

jamieboo said:


> I don't have BBCSO so I don't know for sure, but in EW Hollywood there are no legato transitions larger than an octave. I guess this is because, during production, a line has to be drawn somewhere so as to avoid having to sample a legato transition between _every single note_ across an instrument's entire range.
> I imagine the odd transitions you're noticing is just the programming script doing it's best to move between two notes for which there is no single legato transition available.


You might be on to something - I tested this with Cinematic Studio Strings and Cinestrings Solo, and they both sounded kind of bad with higher than octave transitions, like really abrupt. But - an abrupt and unsmooth transition would still be better than the "trill" that BBCSO makes. Oh well.


----------



## Fleer

Anyone using BBCSO with Albion NEO recently? I’m wondering how seasoned composers would select specific mics to blend their different room ambiances.


----------



## Zedcars

Hello,

99% BBCSO for this track. I did post an excerpt a while ago, but here is the complete first movement. I also used 1 JXL Brass Trumpet just layered with the BBCSO 2nd trumpet at the very beginning. I also used VSL Steinway piano and little bit of VSL Andromeda in places.

There are a couple of surprises buried in there. One of them will jump out at you if you watch the video version. The other is a bit more concealed: there is a morse code message in there...somewhere... 

I mainly used BBCSO Mix 2 + Spill Full Mic. The intro trumpets use the Balcony mics, and some others used the Close mics.

Best wishes,
Darren

#ONEORCHESTRA


----------



## yiph2

hi everyone!
I'm looking to get a new macbook pro, mainly for light gaming and music creation.
Should I get the macbook pro with 32 or 64gb ram? especially for this sound library, and others.
thanks!


----------



## dzilizzi

64 is always better if you are using virtual instruments. But you can get by with 32 if you don't plan on heavy orchestral instruments. Unfortunately, because of the extensive articulations needed to do orchestral music, the instruments tend to eat RAM. So more is better.


----------



## Zedcars

yiph2 said:


> hi everyone!
> I'm looking to get a new macbook pro, mainly for light gaming and music creation.
> Should I get the macbook pro with 32 or 64gb ram? especially for this sound library, and others.
> thanks!


Hi,

You should always go for as much RAM as you can afford, especially since MacBooks have their RAM soldered onto the motherboard making user-upgradable memory essentially impossible.

You could run an optimised BBCSO template on 32GB, but I don’t recommend it. You also need to think about future proofing your machine and so 64GB is a must in that regard.


----------



## yiph2

ok thanks everyone!
also, when I buy the BBCSO, direct download or ssd?
i've never used an ssd before, so i'm not sure how to use it without bringing the files directly in the mac.

any updates to the BBCSO for the bass flute, piano etc?
it seems like spitfire mentioned this a long time ago...


----------



## Jaap

Just stumbled upon this video


----------



## redlester

yiph2 said:


> ok thanks everyone!
> also, when I buy the BBCSO, direct download or ssd?
> i've never used an ssd before, so i'm not sure how to use it without bringing the files directly in the mac.
> 
> any updates to the BBCSO for the bass flute, piano etc?
> it seems like spitfire mentioned this a long time ago...



If you already have the SSD space to spare I recommend buying it on standard hard drive, which is a lot cheaper.


----------



## Bluemount Score

yiph2 said:


> any updates to the BBCSO for the bass flute, piano etc?
> it seems like spitfire mentioned this a long time ago...


Nope, not yet.


----------



## brenneisen

Jaap said:


> Just stumbled upon this video




"symphony"


----------



## Fleer

yiph2 said:


> ok thanks everyone!
> also, when I buy the BBCSO, direct download or ssd?
> i've never used an ssd before, so i'm not sure how to use it without bringing the files directly in the mac.


If you’ve got a (1TB) SSD, choose download. If not, the Spitfire SSD is a good one (Samsung) at normal cost.


----------



## jonvog

Did an HZ-style assignment. BBCSO can go big!


----------



## Fleer

jonvog said:


> Did an HZ-style assignment. BBCSO can go big!



Lush yet detailed. I could sense myself flying over the Shire. Well done indeed.


----------



## jonvog

How do you guys handle re-bowing of the same note? I just can't get a convincing performance here.


----------



## Ruffian Price

I normally put a staccato articulation on another MIDI channel and add a mp note in the middle of the regular long note (you might try to do a quick CC1 reduction in the original channel, it never sounded like that was necessary to me), but in BBCSO that cuts both notes. It's clear a keyswitch-based workflow is preferred, so you might try that with two plugin instances.


----------



## CT

If you get the right combination of velocity and actual time between releasing a note and re-triggering it, the effect is pretty convincing. It's hard to consistently do when playing live.


----------



## becolossal

For those still using, what's your mic mix of choice? I've been fiddling with a mix of close, tree, and the outriggers, but haven't landed on anything that sounds just right to me yet. The default mixes feel a tad on the muddy/washed out/too wet side to me. Anyone else feel that way?

By contrast, I started a project with SA Chamber Strings last night and was reminded of how great that library sounds in its default state. So good. I think I'm just having a little trouble "taming" BBCSO.


----------



## Brasart

becolossal said:


> For those still using, what's your mic mix of choice? I've been fiddling with a mix of close, tree, and the outriggers, but haven't landed on anything that sounds just right to me yet. The default mixes feel a tad on the muddy/washed out/too wet side to me. Anyone else feel that way?
> 
> By contrast, I started a project with SA Chamber Strings last night and was reminded of how great that library sounds in its default state. So good. I think I'm just having a little trouble "taming" BBCSO.



Obviously it depends on the instruments and the context.
First of all I use Mix1 90% of the time, with the occasional blend of spills.

When I get away from Mix1, I usually experiment with the classic Close/Tree/Ambient/Outriggers, but I also love using CloseW and Stereo on pretty much everything.
I don't have a real preference or some kind of template mic setup, but I do find I get way better results with a custom blend when using leader instruments.

I also think I should try using Mix2 more myself, if only to get used to how it sounds.


----------



## CT

Surprised to hear that someone finds the mixes too wet. I actually wish they had a little less closeness to them.

That said, I use either Mix 1 or the Tree on its own for most purposes. Mix 2 or other blends for particular, less "classical" contexts.


----------



## becolossal

Brasart said:


> Obviously it depends on the instruments and the context.
> First of all I use Mix1 90% of the time, with the occasional blend of spills.
> 
> When I get away from Mix1, I usually experiment with the classic Close/Tree/Ambient/Outriggers, but I also love using CloseW and Stereo on pretty much everything.
> I don't have a real preference or some kind of template mic setup, but I do find I get way better results with a custom blend when using leader instruments.
> 
> I also think I should try using Mix2 more myself, if only to get used to how it sounds.



Thanks, Brasart! I haven't really messed around too much with the spills yet – I'll give those a shot and see what kind of stuff I can cook up.



miket said:


> Surprised to hear that someone finds the mixes too wet. I actually wish they had a little less closeness to them.
> 
> That said, I use either Mix 1 or the Tree on its own for most purposes. Mix 2 or other blends for particular, less "classical" contexts.



"Too wet" might be the wrong way to describe how I hear it – muddier, maybe? The style of it is different from the other things I use (primarily Chamber Strings and a lot of the Solo Strings). I'm also wrestling with getting the brass to my liking, but that's likely just my inexperience in orchestrating.

I'll give it some proper time this weekend and try out your suggestions 

Thanks, Miket!


----------



## John R Wilson

becolossal said:


> Thanks, Brasart! I haven't really messed around too much with the spills yet – I'll give those a shot and see what kind of stuff I can cook up.
> 
> 
> 
> "Too wet" might be the wrong way to describe how I hear it – muddier, maybe? The style of it is different from the other things I use (primarily Chamber Strings and a lot of the Solo Strings). I'm also wrestling with getting the brass to my liking, but that's likely just my inexperience in orchestrating.
> 
> I'll give it some proper time this weekend and try out your suggestions
> 
> Thanks, Miket!




The brass is one of the weaker parts of the library. Might be a good idea to use some other brass alongside the BBCSO. Maybe also try adding in some more of the close mics to get a little bit of a dryer sound maybe.


----------



## yiph2

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> The brass is one of the weaker parts of the library. Might be a good idea to use some other brass alongside the BBCSO. Maybe also try adding in some more of the close mics to get a little bit of a dryer sound maybe.


should i just buy sss instead?
which one is better for solo instruments?
thanks!


----------



## John R Wilson

yiph2 said:


> should i just buy sss instead?
> which one is better for solo instruments?
> thanks!



With the SSS you don't get any solo instruments, so if your after some solo instruments alongside a main string section then it might be worth looking at the BBCSO or another solo library alongside SSS.


----------



## yiph2

oop, sorry, i meant sso...

is there any orchestral sound librarys including solo instruments like BBCSO?
thanks


----------



## John R Wilson

yiph2 said:


> oop, sorry, i meant sso...
> 
> is there any orchestral sound librarys including solo instruments like BBCSO?
> thanks



Theirs Audio Imperials Nucleus that I've heard comes with some great solo instruments, I haven't got this one but read some good things on it. Also EWHO Diamond comes with divisi sections.


----------



## dzilizzi

I think if you want solo instruments, you may be better off getting something like Embertone's stuff. Most of the "soloists" are first chairs in mixed orchestras and not real soloists, if that makes sense. But then, it depends on what you want to do with it.

SSO does not come with soloists. They have soloist libraries, but I'm not sure they were recorded in Air Lyndhurst, but in the studio rooms, so they may be drier.


----------



## yiph2

dzilizzi said:


> I think if you want solo instruments, you may be better off getting something like Embertone's stuff. Most of the "soloists" are first chairs in mixed orchestras and not real soloists, if that makes sense. But then, it depends on what you want to do with it.
> 
> SSO does not come with soloists. They have soloist libraries, but I'm not sure they were recorded in Air Lyndhurst, but in the studio rooms, so they may be drier.


you mean the leaders in BBCSO are just the first chairs of the section right? not "real" soloists? im fine with that, i just want only 1 person playing!


----------



## John R Wilson

yiph2 said:


> you mean the leaders in BBCSO are just the first chairs of the section right? not "real" soloists? im fine with that, i just want only 1 person playing!



That's correct. It is just a single player recorded so it is basically a soloist recording and can be used as such.


----------



## brenneisen

dzilizzi said:


> They have soloist libraries, but I'm not sure they were recorded in Air Lyndhurst



Spitfire Solo Strings (SSoS) - Air Lyndhurst
Sacconi Strings Quartet - Wigmore Hall
Alternative Solo Strings - Spitfire HQ
British Drama Toolkit¹ - Spitfire HQ


¹ not a dedicated solo string library but it has some


----------



## dzilizzi

yiph2 said:


> you mean the leaders in BBCSO are just the first chairs of the section right? not "real" soloists? im fine with that, i just want only 1 person playing!


Sorry, I was thinking soloists that actual play in addition to the orchestra. If you just want a single violin sound the first chairs are perfect. There were some complaints earlier in the thread that they weren't really soloists. If that makes any sense. 

I don't know why, for some reason I thought I read the SSoS weren't recorded in Lyndhurst, but I just checked and @brenneisen is correct. Probably getting them mixed up with one of the other solo strings libraries they have.


----------



## Fleer

brenneisen said:


> Spitfire Solo Strings (SSoS) - Air Lyndhurst
> Sacconi Strings Quartet - Wigmore Hall
> Alternative Solo Strings - Spitfire HQ
> British Drama Toolkit¹ - Spitfire HQ
> 
> 
> ¹ not a dedicated solo string library but it has some


Good point about solo strings on BDK. Hadn’t seen it that way. Now even more pleased I got it as part of The Ton last BF. And it blends nicely with Albion NEO.


----------



## Brasart

Fleer said:


> Good point about solo strings on BDK. Hadn’t seen it that way. Now even more pleased I got it as part of The Ton last BF. And it blends nicely with Albion NEO.



It blends with everything, it's kind of like a BBCSO leader mic you can use on every library; I map the modwheel to expression and dial back the initial volume quite a bit, then I play alongside regular libraries using different articulations from violin/viola/cello as separated tracks, I think it works so well that way


----------



## Tim S. Fischer

Am I the only one that still has serious RAM issues with that Spitfire player?
I'm on v1.09 and this player is still such a mess, makes the library kinda useless for me...
Half a year after release and still so many problems - at least for me.

There are still plenty of problems with memory allocation on my side. When I built that VEP template I had around 30 gigs of RAM allocated while fully loaded and the Spitfire plugin telling the truth about the allocated RAM.

Now everytime I load up that template again, it goes up to twice (!!) of the initial RAM amount. I'm running 1-3 mics at the same time per instrument. Spitfire player tells me that 19GB of RAM are loaded in total, when the actual amount is 3,5 times higher.

Disabling/Re-enabling the plugins won't work. Working with BBCSO in Cubase w/o Vienna Ensemble is even worse. I'm on Windows 10. Can't believe that I'm still not able to use the library I bought half a year ago.

#NONEORCHESTRA - at least for me. 

Any ideas?

Hope the devs are still listening...


----------



## becolossal

Tim S. Fischer said:


> Am I the only one that still has serious RAM issues with that Spitfire player?
> I'm on v1.09 and this player is still such a mess, makes the library kinda useless for me...
> Half a year after release and still so many problems - at least for me.
> 
> There are still plenty of problems with memory allocation on my side. When I built that VEP template I had around 30 gigs of RAM allocated while fully loaded and the Spitfire plugin telling the truth about the allocated RAM.
> 
> Now everytime I load up that template again, it goes up to twice (!!) of the initial RAM amount. I'm running 1-3 mics at the same time per instrument. Spitfire player tells me that 19GB of RAM are loaded in total, when the actual amount is 3,5 times higher.
> 
> Disabling/Re-enabling the plugins won't work. Working with BBCSO in Cubase w/o Vienna Ensemble is even worse. I'm on Windows 10. Can't believe that I'm still not able to use the library I bought half a year ago.
> 
> #NONEORCHESTRA - at least for me.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Hope the devs are still listening...


This is a technicality, but the RAM displayed in the Spitfire Player is only the RAM it is using – your machine will still be using more. For example, I load up their #oneorchestra template and am using about 19 (extra mic positions like yourself), but Logic also uses a load of RAM when all that's loaded, brining my total to roughly 26 GB used. That said, the difference between your 19GB that the player is showing and total usage seems like absurd range if there isn't anything else going on in there.


----------



## Tim S. Fischer

becolossal said:


> This is a technicality, but the RAM displayed in the Spitfire Player is only the RAM it is using – your machine will still be using more. For example, I load up their #oneorchestra template and am using about 19 (extra mic positions like yourself), but Logic also uses a load of RAM when all that's loaded, brining my total to roughly 26 GB used. That said, the difference between your 19GB that the player is showing and total usage seems like absurd range if there isn't anything else going on in there.



Hey 

Yeah, it is indeed absurd. Just to be clear, it's just that one VEPro Server instance with just the plain spitfire player plugins loaded, no additional plugins, no additional software running in the background.
DAW with plugins etc. runs on a different computer.

Thing is that I don't even have all instruments of the BBCSO loaded. that 2 or 3 player plugins per folder are blanks w/o anything loaded inside. 

As I said, when I finished that template I was at roundabout ~30 GB of RAM. 

Makes no sense at all.


----------



## becolossal

Tim S. Fischer said:


> Hey
> 
> Yeah, it is indeed absurd. Just to be clear, it's just that one VEPro Server instance with just the plain spitfire player plugins loaded, no additional plugins, no additional software running in the background.
> DAW with plugins etc. runs on a different computer.
> 
> Thing is that I don't even have all instruments of the BBCSO loaded. that 2 or 3 player plugins per folder are blanks w/o anything loaded inside.
> 
> As I said, when I finished that template I was at roundabout ~30 GB of RAM.
> 
> Makes no sense at all.


That is weird. FWIW, I did receive an email today hinting at an update coming soon. I had an open ticket with them on mic positions randomly switching when removing articulations. The email I received today said that was fixed and on the way in the next update. I'm hopeful there are other improvements coming as well.


----------



## Tim S. Fischer

becolossal said:


> That is weird. FWIW, I did receive an email today hinting at an update coming soon. I had an open ticket with them on mic positions randomly switching when removing articulations. The email I received today said that was fixed and on the way in the next update. I'm hopeful there are other improvements coming as well.



Well... I feel that 'Early Access' finally made its move to the composers industry. 

I just wish Spitfire would move back to Kontakt or at least try to copycat the SINE player.


----------



## TechHarlan

Made with BBCSO


----------



## Zedcars

Simone95 said:


> Made with BBCSO



This is fabulous. I was expecting a mockup of Holst's classic, but was pleasantly surprised.

You forgot to tag it with #ONEORCHESTRA


----------



## Fleer

Very nice indeed. Wonderful flute line too.


----------



## gussunkri

Simone95 said:


> Made with BBCSO



Sounds great! What mic/mix are you using?


----------



## TechHarlan

gussunkri said:


> Sounds great! What mic/mix are you using?



All Mix 1 with a touch of external reverb, that's it!


----------



## becolossal

Simone95 said:


> All Mix 1 with a touch of external reverb, that's it!


Very nice!!


----------



## Fleer

Another “highly recommended” review:
https://www.commdiginews.com/entertainment/media-news-reviews/spitfire-audio-offers-superb-bbc-symphony-orchestra-library-a-review-128109/


----------



## Tim S. Fischer

Fleer said:


> Another “highly recommended” review:
> https://www.commdiginews.com/entertainment/media-news-reviews/spitfire-audio-offers-superb-bbc-symphony-orchestra-library-a-review-128109/



...from a Macbook user of course.


----------



## gussunkri

I have almost exclusively used mix1 and mix2 in my work, but I have now started to explore the other mics. What mics do you tend to use?

Also, has anyone used the mono mic for anything? It sounds very character full and old but I am thinking that it will be difficult to use in actual productions.


----------



## Brasart

gussunkri said:


> I have almost exclusively used mix1 and mix2 in my work, but I have now started to explore the other mics. What mics do you tend to use?
> 
> Also, has anyone used the mono mic for anything? It sounds very character full and old but I am thinking that it will be difficult to use in actual productions.



There's a couple answers in the previous page !


----------



## Fleer

SoundBytesMag review is out:








Review - BBC Symphony Orchestra from Spitfire Audio


An amazing sampled orchestral collection, which pushes both financial and technological limits but gives a lot in return.




soundbytesmag.net


----------



## Jim Martin

The brass in this library needs some help! Lots of bad samples.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Jim Martin said:


> The brass in this library needs some help! Lots of bad samples.



I am not sure that's in the stars. All the brouhaha seems to have died. I keep hoping the piano and bass flute will be released, but it is decidedly quiet on the BBCSO front. Spitfire now seems mostly focused on new libraries. They may just be done with this library. I had really hoped for an expansion, but that's probably just wishful thinking.


----------



## Zedcars

Jett Hitt said:


> I am not sure that's in the stars. All the brouhaha seems to have died. I keep hoping the piano and bass flute will be released, but it is decidedly quiet on the BBCSO front. Spitfire now seems mostly focused on new libraries. They may just be done with this library. I had really hoped for an expansion, but that's probably just wishful thinking.


I don’t think that’s it. I think those things will materialise. Possibly on the 1st anniversary? Pretty sure they recorded them so why wouldn’t they release them? Timing is important so they probably have it in their roadmap. Look at all the free updates they’ve been releasing to older libraries.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Jett Hitt said:


> I am not sure that's in the stars. All the brouhaha seems to have died. I keep hoping the piano and bass flute will be released, but it is decidedly quiet on the BBCSO front. Spitfire now seems mostly focused on new libraries. They may just be done with this library. I had really hoped for an expansion, but that's probably just wishful thinking.



Lol! Give them some credit. The library is barely 6 months old, I’m confident there’s more to come.


----------



## Jim Martin

Jett Hitt said:


> I am not sure that's in the stars. All the brouhaha seems to have died. I keep hoping the piano and bass flute will be released, but it is decidedly quiet on the BBCSO front. Spitfire now seems mostly focused on new libraries. They may just be done with this library. I had really hoped for an expansion, but that's probably just wishful thinking.


I guess Junkie XL Brass is in my future, but damn I didn't want to pay for better brass


----------



## John R Wilson

Wolfie2112 said:


> Lol! Give them some credit. The library is barely 6 months old, I’m confident there’s more to come.



I agree. I believe there is a new update coming out soon apparently. I do hope this is going to happen very soon though as Im still struggling with quite a few performance issue with the BBCSO in Cubase on windows 10. A recent track I was working on had only around 17/18 instances of the BBCSO but would not run well at all in Cubase. Theirs also lots they could do to improve on it. I wish their was some RR on the marcato and legato string patches and I also don't find the string legatos that good for faster lines.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Don't forget the dev team are probably remote working now under Boris lockdown. Probably best (for all of us) to stop chomping at the bit and accept it'll happen when it happens.


----------



## John R Wilson

Here's my first very short piece using only the BBCSO apart from 1 small cello part that used an EWHO legato cello patch.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jim Martin said:


> I guess Junkie XL Brass is in my future, but damn I didn't want to pay for better brass


You might want to check on that one. I was reading a lot of complaints on it also. 

Then again, every new library seems to have those who love it and those who were expecting it to be something it isn't. But I would definitely make sure the Sine player works for you first.


----------



## Jim Martin

dzilizzi said:


> You might want to check on that one. I was reading a lot of complaints on it also.
> 
> Then again, every new library seems to have those who love it and those who were expecting it to be something it isn't. But I would definitely make sure the Sine player works for you first.


Yeah, I followed a lot of the release issues. They just released an update which apparently fixed the player.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jim Martin said:


> Yeah, I followed a lot of the release issues. They just released an update which apparently fixed the player.


That is good to hear. I haven't used it yet because all my OT libraries are Kontakt and don't show up in it the last time I tried.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

"There's definitely more on the way" were the exact words I and some others were told at one of their workshop days in London back in December. Granted, they may have just said that to incentivise people to buy the damn thing, but it doesn't make any sense to lie about that. Pretty sure these things just take times. It took them ages to release that massive update to the Hans Zimmer Strings, and I'm pretty sure they'd rather not push things out incrementally in micro updates.


----------



## CT

I do love what we already have, so I will be thrilled with any further content. The sooner the better, but no point in rushing of course.


----------



## John R Wilson

miket said:


> I do love what we already have, so I will be thrilled with any further content. The sooner the better, but no point in rushing of course.



I agree. Hopefully it will be soon.


----------



## ridgero

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> I agree. Hopefully it will be soon.



Minus „soon“


----------



## Zedcars

New mix of a piece I posted a few weeks ago.

In this new version, I used BBCSO 'Mix 1' Channel for the majority of the tracks (as opposed to Mix 2 with extra processing by me previously), and removed much of the per track compression as it was not helping. I also tried some parallel compression to raise the quieter sections a bit.

I was not happy with my previous mix, so I hope this is a better mix now.




24-bit 44.1kHz WAV file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pozx8soicgidaem/War%20Child%20-%20Mvt1%20-%20BBCSO%20-%20D%20Prescott%20v38-MASTER%20FX%20ON%20-2dBTP.wav?dl=0
Previous version for comparison:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/20couywsulj6jh5/War%20Child%20-%20Mvt1%20-%20BBCSO%20-%20D%20Prescott%20v36-MASTER%20FX%20ON%20-2dBTP.wav?dl=0
#ONEORCHESTRA


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Jim Martin said:


> I guess Junkie XL Brass is in my future, but damn I didn't want to pay for better brass



Grab EW Hollywood Brass Gold and Performance Samples Caspian Brass, both work well with BBCSO....and a hell of a lot cheaper that JXL. They give extra "oomph" when BBCSO can't cut it.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Zedcars said:


> I don’t think that’s it. I think those things will materialise. Possibly on the 1st anniversary? Pretty sure they recorded them so why wouldn’t they release them? Timing is important so they probably have it in their roadmap. Look at all the free updates they’ve been releasing to older libraries.





Wolfie2112 said:


> Lol! Give them some credit. The library is barely 6 months old, I’m confident there’s more to come.



Perhaps I was misunderstood here. I am sure they will release the piano and bass flute at some point, but I was hoping for an expansion, mostly more percussion. And I don't think anybody would cry if they redid the horns.

Edit: I forgot to mention that ensemble patches would be a REALLY big addition.


----------



## Cass Hansen

Zedcars said:


> New mix of a piece I posted a few weeks ago.
> 
> In this new version, I used BBCSO 'Mix 1' Channel for the majority of the tracks (as opposed to Mix 2 with extra processing by me previously), and removed much of the per track compression as it was not helping. I also tried some parallel compression to raise the quieter sections a bit.
> 
> I was not happy with my previous mix, so I hope this is a better mix now.



First off, absolutely love your piece. You typed movement 1, are the other movements written yet? The intense sections remind me of the best of Shostakovich’s symphonies when they really let loose, like the 2nd movement of his 11th and I mean this as a huge compliment.

And yes! This mix is much, much better than your first one. The clarity is exceptional and transparent and the stage really seems coherent amongst the orchestral sections. I would love to hear a version of this with an additional reverb tail added to the mix just for comparison from dry sound stage to concert stage, but this mix hits the spot as it is. You said most of the tracks were with Mix 1, did you use the spill mics at all?

Hands down, this is the best track I’ve heard with the BBCSO library.


----------



## Zedcars

Cass Hansen said:


> First off, absolutely love your piece. You typed movement 1, are the other movements written yet? The intense sections remind me of the best of Shostakovich’s symphonies when they really let loose, like the 2nd movement of his 11th and I mean this as a huge compliment.
> 
> And yes! This mix is much, much better than your first one. The clarity is exceptional and transparent and the stage really seems coherent amongst the orchestral sections. I would love to hear a version of this with an additional reverb tail added to the mix just for comparison from dry sound stage to concert stage, but this mix hits the spot as it is. You said most of the tracks were with Mix 1, did you use the spill mics at all?
> 
> Hands down, this is the best track I’ve heard with the BBCSO library.


Really great of you to take the time to listen and comment. I will need to acquaint myself with Shostakovich’s 11th as I’m not sure I’ve heard that one.

Unfortunately I am a very slow worker. For movements 2 and 3 I do have sketches on paper, fragments and ideas in my head, and even some ideas mocked up, but nothing fully formed yet. However, this new threat to our lives has made me think I should get this done sooner rather than later.

I can try adding some extra reverb, although my production abilities are poor so I’m not sure how successful or terrible that would be.

I did use the Spill Full mics on almost everything. I would have to go back and check exactly what I didn’t use it on, but if memory serves I excluded it from the bass drum to help with low end clarity.

Thank you for your kind words.


----------



## Cass Hansen

Zedcars said:


> Really great of you to take the time to listen and comment. I will need to acquaint myself with Shostakovich’s 11th as I’m not sure I’ve heard that one.


Thanks for the reply Darren. I just saw you had it posted in the member composition forum section. Lots of great feedback. Also noticed your avatar, yeah, The day the earth stood still is one of my faves too!

Shostakovich’s 11th is his second best symphony next to the 5th IMO. Rather than abstract music, it is a narrative of the 1905 revolution. Focusing on the slaughter on Bloody Sunday at the Winter Palace of Tsar Nicholas II, the 1st movement is sunrise at the palace square, quiet, mysterious, foreboding. Almost the whole movement is quiet and is known for Carl Sagan using the score throughout his Cosmos miniseries. The second movement is the slaughter when imperial guards fired upon the peaceful protestors and killed hundreds of them. The 3rd expresses the grief and funerals of the victims and the 4th says, “we will not forget this!!) leading to the 1917 revolution and overthrow of the Tsarist regime.

Sorry for the long explanation of the symphony but it helps to know the history behind it before listening to it. It would make a tremendous movie score and there are so many phenomenal passages of creativity and ingenuity pertaining to variation and orchestration, for anyone who aspires to write great scores, this is a must listen.

Hear's a link to a very short passage from it, about one minute.

Shostakovich's 11th sym 2nd mvt


----------



## purple

Is this the longest thread on this site? It's been in the first page of sample talk for months!


----------



## dzilizzi

I think so. A lot of it is about things other than BBCSO. Like chocolate.


----------



## Zero&One

dzilizzi said:


> I think so. A lot of it is about things other than BBCSO. Like chocolate.



We also lost a few pages to the DZone along the way. Staypuft and his legendary compositions 😂


----------



## rrrotzooipost

How is the issue with the ram and dropouts nowadays? I'm considering buying the BBC SO, but am hesitant because of the many issues I read about.


----------



## CT

All smooth for me, but I didn't have many problems to begin with. Only thing is that in the middle of loading a patch, it will hang for a number of seconds before loading the rest. Might be because I've deleted some mic positions and it's looking for them, or maybe it's a widespread kink that can still be ironed out. 

In addition to more instrument content of course, one thing that I think would be useful to add to the plugin's functionality is putting the articulation/mic selection ahead of anything actually loading into RAM. Would make more sense to tell it what you want, and have that load, rather than loading everything and a mic position you might not want.


----------



## sostenuto

Cass Hansen said:


> Thanks for the reply Darren. I just saw you had it posted in the member composition forum section. Lots of great feedback. Also noticed your avatar, yeah, The day the earth stood still is one of my faves too!
> 
> Shostakovich’s 11th is his second best symphony next to the 5th IMO. Rather than abstract music, it is a narrative of the 1905 revolution. Focusing on the slaughter on Bloody Sunday at the Winter Palace of Tsar Nicholas II, the 1st movement is sunrise at the palace square, quiet, mysterious, foreboding. Almost the whole movement is quiet and is known for Carl Sagan using the score throughout his Cosmos miniseries. The second movement is the slaughter when imperial guards fired upon the peaceful protestors and killed hundreds of them. The 3rd expresses the grief and funerals of the victims and the 4th says, “we will not forget this!!) leading to the 1917 revolution and overthrow of the Tsarist regime.
> 
> Sorry for the long explanation of the symphony but it helps to know the history behind it before listening to it. It would make a tremendous movie score and there are so many phenomenal passages of creativity and ingenuity pertaining to variation and orchestration, for anyone who aspires to write great scores, this is a must listen.
> 
> Hear's a link to a very short passage from it, about one minute.
> 
> Shostakovich's 11th sym 2nd mvt



Appreciate this focused Shostakovich symphony perspective ! No. 11 was indeed a long search thru his albums from my quality (flac), streaming source. Finally found (far down the list) in: 'Shostakovich: The Symphonies' _ Vladimir Ashkenazy / St Petersburg Philharmonic Orchestra / 2006. 
Will audtion and then search best alternative recordings. 
Many thanks !


----------



## John R Wilson

rrrotzooipost said:


> How is the issue with the ram and dropouts nowadays? I'm considering buying the BBC SO, but am hesitant because of the many issues I read about.



I still seem to be experiencing audio dropouts and performance issues with the BBCSO. I also can't use anymore than 2 mic positions. I'm using Cubase on windows, 64 GB Ram, and a quad core i7 processor.


----------



## Cormast

Johnrwilsonmusic said:


> I still seem to be experiencing audio dropouts and performance issues with the BBCSO. I also can't use anymore than 2 mic positions. I'm using Cubase on windows, 64 GB Ram, and a quad core i7 processor.



If you're on cubase, check that your daw isn't using VST3 instance of BBCSO (Reinstalled at each update of bbcso (not optimisation)), but the VST2 instance instead. For me it was the problem.


----------



## Cormast

Cubase prioritize VST3 if the 2 instances are available, so delete VST3.


----------



## muk

Does anybody have both BBCSO and VSL Special Editions (mainly SE 1 and SE 1+), and can compare? I am using VSL SE as a filler mainly, for instruments/groups/sections that are not in the foreground of the arrangement. They are versatile, easy to use, and resource friendly. I'm not totally happy with the lack of a natural room sound though. Not sure how much it contributes to the end result, but I am asking myself if wet samples in this role could provide a more realistic sense of room. Currently I am debating whether BBCSO could fill that role.


----------



## ism

muk said:


> Does anybody have both BBCSO and VSL Special Editions (mainly SE 1 and SE 1+), and can compare? I am using VSL SE as a filler mainly, for instruments/groups/sections that are not in the foreground of the arrangement. They are versatile, easy to use, and resource friendly. I'm not totally happy with the lack of a natural room sound though. Not sure how much it contributes to the end result, but I am asking myself if wet samples in this role could provide a more realistic sense of room. Currently I am debating whether BBCSO could fill that role.


There’s a whole thread that debates this, bitterly at times, but also with very articulate points being made on both sides:





__





Spitfire BBC Symphonic Orchestra vs VSL CUBE Full library Black Friday offer


Parodieverfahren rules.




vi-control.net





And the answer is that there are at least two very different schools of thought.

I remain firmly in the school of thought that room tone is all but impossible simulate (especially the early reflections) in an *emotionally* satisfying way, and shifting from VSL SE (without MIR) to Spitfire was like suddenly being able to breathe again. 

The opposite positions are argued so vehemently that I suspect that it’s not merely a difference of opinion or taste, but that there is something perceptual, ie at the level of neuroscience, at play.


But ymmv.


----------



## muk

Thanks @ism. I should read through that thread more carefully. Personally I think that VSL SE is a fairer comparison with BBC SO, rather than the VSL Cube. But the points regarding the room sound apply equally here.

Lately I'm leaning more towards wet samples too. However, I am using the brass section the most from VSL SE. And from what I've read so far, that is not a strong part of BBC SO. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## dzilizzi

I wish there was a way to get the room sound to add to an IR reverb to make it easy to blend other instruments with an orchestra. Like if you buy the BBCSO, they give you a Maida Vale general IR to match other instruments. It won't be as good as the real thing, but would make it easier to match stuff like VSL SE with the library. Hopefully, someone does it before it gets torn down. 

Of course, that won't work with wet sounds.


----------



## yiph2

dzilizzi said:


> I wish there was a way to get the room sound to add to an IR reverb to make it easy to blend other instruments with an orchestra. Like if you buy the BBCSO, they give you a Maida Vale general IR to match other instruments. It won't be as good as the real thing, but would make it easier to match stuff like VSL SE with the library. Hopefully, someone does it before it gets torn down.
> 
> Of course, that won't work with wet sounds.


In one of Paul's reverb videos, someone suggested to make a reverb plugin from Spitfire, and Paul said good idea, so maybe if not Maida Vale, at least Air?


----------



## dzilizzi

yiph2 said:


> In one of Paul's reverb videos, someone suggested to make a reverb plugin from Spitfire, and Paul said good idea, so maybe if not Maida Vale, at least Air?


Well, I do have SSO, so I would love an Air one as well!


----------



## muk

Air Studios have a strict 'no IR-recording'-policy, so that is unlikely to happen. With Maida Vale perhaps, I don't know.

Personally, my problem is not with matching a certain hall with artificial reverb. That part I don't find too difficult. Impossible for me, however, is to create a believable natural space at all around dry samples.

Reading a lot of criticism about BBC SO brass though. Can anybody compare VSL SE brass against BBC SO? Is BBC SO brass versatile enough to fill in the role of background (aka non soloistic) brass writing?


As an aside if you guys happen to own 2c Audio B2, there is a third party preset pack that is about matching Air Lyndhurst hall as closely as possible:









ULTIMATE X SOUNDS / SOUND DESIGN for | MOOG | PROPHET Rev2 | Access VIrus Ti | KORG | NI MASSIVE


Presets for synthesizers : MOOG / PROPHET Rev2 / Access VIrus Ti / KORG / NI MASSIVE




www.ultimatexsounds.com





I don't know if it is any good though, as I don't own B2.


----------



## CT

muk said:


> Does anybody have both BBCSO and VSL Special Editions (mainly SE 1 and SE 1+), and can compare? I am using VSL SE as a filler mainly, for instruments/groups/sections that are not in the foreground of the arrangement. They are versatile, easy to use, and resource friendly. I'm not totally happy with the lack of a natural room sound though. Not sure how much it contributes to the end result, but I am asking myself if wet samples in this role could provide a more realistic sense of room. Currently I am debating whether BBCSO could fill that role.



I used to have SE. I have BBCSO now. I suspect you know what my recommendation is.


----------



## AllanH

Cormast said:


> Cubase prioritize VST3 if the 2 instances are available, so delete VST3.



Why would you not use the VST3? I never install the VST2s anymore. I use Cubase 10.5, and I don't recall there being an issue with VST3s in a very long time.


----------



## yiph2

Does anyone know what happened with THE PAGE? It seems like nothing really changed for a few months... also the forum...


----------



## Nemoy

I'm still waiting for the BBCSO updates along with the mentioned piano...and hope they will add muted brass. Sighs.


----------



## John R Wilson

Nemoy said:


> I'm still waiting for the BBCSO updates along with the mentioned piano...and hope they will add muted brass. Sighs.



Same here. I do think there may be an update coming soon for the BBCSO.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Get in line you lot.

I'm waiting for the SSO update that was promised last year.......


----------



## yiph2

I didn't actually say anything about the update (also it would be nice)...
Seems like they are quite far behind on schedule...
No SSO update last year, no update for BBCSO, nothing on THE PAGE...


----------



## Laptoprabbit

Anyone else dealing with inconsistent articulation volumes in the string leaders and brass? For example, col legno in the Violins 2 Leader is weirdly quiet. It makes it tough to use when you just have the leaders playing.


----------



## Brasart

I think inconsistent volumes between articulations is a thing that happens in every relatively big library you'll find out there, a good habit to have is fixing those when building your templates !


----------



## redlester

Regarding updates and whether they are behind schedule, how do we know what their schedule was/is?

HZS had been out for about 18 months or more before it had its massive update towards the end of last year.


----------



## holywilly

2nd violin’s spiccato sounds loose and quite different from the rest of the string section. I’m wondering why is that?


----------



## yiph2

redlester said:


> Regarding updates and whether they are behind schedule, how do we know what their schedule was/is?
> 
> HZS had been out for about 18 months or more before it had its massive update towards the end of last year.


On one of Spitfires Help section, there was a sentence that was something like: SSO Professiional will be released in 2019. Also, they said THE PAGE was going to be uploaded frequently, and the forum says trial period for a while...


----------



## AlainTH

Brasart said:


> I think inconsistent volumes between articulations is a thing that happens in every relatively big library you'll find out there, a good habit to have is fixing those when building your templates !


impossible with expression map


----------



## AlainTH

Cass Hansen said:


> Hear's a link to a very short passage from it, about one minute.
> 
> Shostakovich's 11th sym 2nd mvt


nice! please say what recording you share


----------



## Brasart

AlainTH said:


> impossible with expression map



I don't use expression maps and I'm not familiar with it but, can't you just adjust the gain of your track? Or load a gain VST on your track?


----------



## AlainTH

an expression map permit all art on the same track, it is the principle...


----------



## Zedcars

Brasart said:


> I don't use expression maps and I'm not familiar with it but, can't you just adjust the gain of your track? Or load a gain VST on your track?


The problem is expression maps are used to switch between articulations on _one_ track. So changes the gain would affect all the arts together. Only way would be to separate out the arts which require gain adjustments, but then that defeats the purpose of the expression map to begin with. I guess there might be away around that depending on your setup and how the expression map is designed. Maybe someone else has a solution to that.


----------



## Brasart

Ah that can be problematic indeed, wish I could be of more help


----------



## paulthomson

muk said:


> Thanks @ism. I should read through that thread more carefully. Personally I think that VSL SE is a fairer comparison with BBC SO, rather than the VSL Cube. But the points regarding the room sound apply equally here.
> 
> Lately I'm leaning more towards wet samples too. However, I am using the brass section the most from VSL SE. And from what I've read so far, that is not a strong part of BBC SO. Decisions, decisions.



hi muk!

check out my little vlog for some grass example...



Best,
Paul


----------



## muk

paulthomson said:


> hi muk!
> 
> check out my little vlog for some grass example...
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> Paul




Fantastic! Thank you Paul. I'm only waiting for the next sale on it now (hopefully springs wishlist sale), as in these times I can't afford it at full price.


----------



## Laptoprabbit

Zedcars said:


> The problem is expression maps are used to switch between articulations on _one_ track. So changes the gain would affect all the arts together. Only way would be to separate out the arts which require gain adjustments, but then that defeats the purpose of the expression map to begin with. I guess there might be away around that depending on your setup and how the expression map is designed. Maybe someone else has a solution to that.


My laptop can't handle too many instances so my current workaround is to use key switches for most arts and then move out the really loud or soft ones into separate tracks. Overall I enjoy the sounds, just hope there will be a round of balancing in the near future.


----------



## Cass Hansen

AlainTH said:


> nice! please say what recording you share


Sorry, my bad....meant to include it but forgot. It is the 1958 version , Leopold Stokowski conductor, Houston Symphony Orchestra.


----------



## AlainTH

nice version, thank you


----------



## yiph2

Does anyone think that there will be a paid upgrade (not the bass flute, piano etc)?
Maybe for more instruments, articulations etc.
Or maybe a lite version with less ram usage and less stuff? Seems like the best way for Spitfire to make some cash... Would make sense for both Spitfire and consumers


----------



## Laptoprabbit

yiph2 said:


> Does anyone think that there will be a paid upgrade (not the bass flute, piano etc)?
> Maybe for more instruments, articulations etc.
> Or maybe a lite version with less ram usage and less stuff? Seems like the best way for Spitfire to make some cash... Would make sense for both Spitfire and consumers


Think a lite version might be interesting... Not sure how I feel about paid upgrades though


----------



## yiph2

For paid upgrades, what I was thinking was much more artuculations (like in studio series, there are a lot), and more interesting instruments (different ranges of clarinets, saxophone, trumpets or something else)


----------



## yiph2

Or maybe free updates


----------



## Brasart

I don't think paid upgrades or a light version would make sense at all for this product, as it was intended to be a comprehensive universal library made so that everyone could work with the same tools and share the same knowledge.
Much like Albion ONE, it is a "starting point" library; turning it into a multi-part product would make it confusing and counter-intuitive to what is was branded as, in my opinion.


----------



## yiph2

Yes, I agree, but most beginners don't have 9999GB ram (or a good cpu) to run this... And for beginners, I don't think they will use this much articulations.


----------



## John R Wilson

yiph2 said:


> Does anyone think that there will be a paid upgrade (not the bass flute, piano etc)?
> Maybe for more instruments, articulations etc.
> Or maybe a lite version with less ram usage and less stuff? Seems like the best way for Spitfire to make some cash... Would make sense for both Spitfire and consumers



Im awaiting some more updates to improve the libraries in its current state, some full ensemble patches and further programming improvements would be great. Thats the focus I would like to see rather than a paid upgrade. Of course some more articulations and more materials would be amazing, still awaiting that piano.

In regards to the ram usage, I think this is something that they should just be improving anyway with further optimisations and improvement with their new player. I'd be surprised if they were not working on improving that element with the BBCSO and their new player. Im sure they are.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Bass Flute and Piano are in quarantine, not expected to be seen before summer again.


----------



## Fleer

yiph2 said:


> Or maybe free updates


^^^This.


----------



## krockodundee

John R Wilson said:


> I still seem to be experiencing audio dropouts and performance issues with the BBCSO. I also can't use anymore than 2 mic positions. I'm using Cubase on windows, 64 GB Ram, and a quad core i7 processor.


Same for me, Windows 10 and VEP 7. 128 GB of ram, nothing hits the roof, but after a few patches playing there are dropouts happening, that sometimes stick even through mixdowns. Have read the manual - no optimization tips. Nothing in the FAQ. Some users say that support have recommendations for the plugin settings for Windows users - I have tested those but to no avail.

Will try contacting support to see if they've got any tips. Let me know if you figure it out!


----------



## Zedcars

krockodundee said:


> Same for me, Windows 10 and VEP 7. 128 GB of ram, nothing hits the roof, but after a few patches playing there are dropouts happening, that sometimes stick even through mixdowns. Have read the manual - no optimization tips. Nothing in the FAQ. Some users say that support have recommendations for the plugin settings for Windows users - I have tested those but to no avail.
> 
> Will try contacting support to see if they've got any tips. Let me know if you figure it out!


Have you tried playing your project through from beginning to end before you start working on it? I do this before every session with the sound muted so I don't have to listen to the unpleasant drop-outs and glitches. Then, once I played it through once, everything is fine. I'm using Cubase on a Mac though, but just thought it was worth mentioning in case it helps. Also, I'd recommend playing around with the BBCSO Audio/buffer settings to see if anything there helps.


----------



## krockodundee

Zedcars said:


> Have you tried playing your project through from beginning to end before you start working on it? I do this before every session with the sound muted so I don't have to listen to the unpleasant drop-outs and glitches. Then, once I played it through once, everything is fine. I'm using Cubase on a Mac though, but just thought it was worth mentioning in case it helps. Also, I'd recommend playing around with the BBCSO Audio/buffer settings to see if anything there helps.


Thanks for the tip  Yeah, I've actually tried that. I get dropouts even if I play a single legato patch, there's definitely something that's not working right (other heavy libraries work fine in big projects). I so hope there are some settings that can work for me.


----------



## Zedcars

krockodundee said:


> Thanks for the tip  Yeah, I've actually tried that. I get dropouts even if I play a single legato patch, there's definitely something that's not working right (other heavy libraries work fine in big projects). I so hope there are some settings that can work for me.


Oh OK. Well, here are the settings I use. They may not be appropriate for you given your system is different, but might be worth a try (keep a record of your own settings in case this makes things worse!!!)...


----------



## robgb

yiph2 said:


> Does anyone think that there will be a paid upgrade


Paid upgrades? Haven't people paid almost a grand for this library already?


----------



## Brasart

robgb said:


> Paid upgrades? Haven't people paid almost a grand for this library already?



I mean pricey libraries can and do get paid extensions, while it's nice to get them for free, when people work for new content it's only natural to ask money for it.


----------



## robgb

Brasart said:


> I mean pricey libraries can and do get paid extensions, while it's nice to get them for free, when people work for new content it's only natural to ask money for it.


I agree. But that initial rental fee is already pretty high...


----------



## yiph2

Yes, I also agree, they have to fix a lot of problems first...


----------



## CT

If anyone is still concerned about the "lack of power" in this library, I started the Ben-Hur prelude for some Easter fun.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Oh OK. Well, here are the settings I use. They may not be appropriate for you given your system is different, but might be worth a try (keep a record of your own settings in case this makes things worse!!!)...



I think, more than anything else, adjusting these settings was the road to smooth operation on my system.


----------



## Brasart

miket said:


> If anyone is still concerned about the "lack of power" in this library, I started the Ben-Hur prelude for some Easter fun.



Oh it sounds great, would be interested if you want to share your midi files once it's completed !


----------



## CT

Hey thanks. I'm not sure if I will finish it sadly. I don't have the wizardry/patience that some people have for this stuff, but if I do continue it I'll share it of course.


----------



## yiph2

Just noticed the top image of the BBCSO has changed...


----------



## yiph2

Michael Antrum said:


> Get in line you lot.
> 
> I'm waiting for the SSO update that was promised last year.......


Seems like it's coming soon.
I saw LUNA was released a few days ago, and noticed this: https://www.uaudio.com/uad-plugins/all-plugins/luna-spitfire-bundle.html
Looks really similar to the new Spitfire player...


----------



## Michael Antrum

Funnily enough I've just been playing with Luna, it's not intended for people like me, but I do like to keep abreast of things.

Well spotted on that, however, I hadn't seen it. It will be interesting to see what they have done with it. And more importantly, where's the Percussion ?


----------



## yiph2

Michael Antrum said:


> Funnily enough I've just been playing with Luna, it's not intended for people like me, but I do like to keep abreast of things.
> 
> Well spotted on that, however, I hadn't seen it. It will be interesting to see what they have done with it. And more importantly, where's the Percussion ?


Spitfire is not a big fan of percussion 
No really, in their SStO series, they don't have one at all...
And I wonder why the bundle is so cheap... 599 vs 1449


----------



## Michael Antrum

Well there seems there may much less in the way of articulations and possible mic positions, plus I think the price of SSO MAY be reduced when relaunched as it is a very competitive market out there. But, then again, maybe not.

I've been waiting for this.....


----------



## yiph2

Michael Antrum said:


> Well there seems there may much less in the way of articulations and possible mic positions, plus I think the price of SSO MAY be reduced when relaunched as it is a very competitive market out there. But, then again, maybe not.
> 
> I've been waiting for this.....


Don't think so, BBCSO is already 999, and its a "starter" library, there's no way they would (but I certainly hope they would )


----------



## RogiervG

yiph2 said:


> Spitfire is not a big fan of percussion
> No really, in their SStO series, they don't have one at all...
> And I wonder why the bundle is so cheap... 599 vs 1449


SStO standard is cheap, a teaser if you will to the real deal in the series: the pro version is as expensive as, but more limited in instruments and mic positions, as BBCSO. Also it doesn't have the room of Maida Vale, which BBCSO has, but is recorded in a small side room (air1) at lyndhurst.


----------



## yiph2

RogiervG said:


> SStO standard is cheap, a teaser if you will to the real deal in the series: the pro version is as expensive as, but more limited in instruments and mic positions, as BBCSO. Also it doesn't have the room of Maida Vale, which BBCSO has, but is recorded in a small side room (air1) at lyndhurst.


Sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant the SSO in LUNA is 599, while the SSO Chamber Version on Spitfire is 1449.


----------



## RogiervG

yiph2 said:


> Sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant the SSO in LUNA is 599, while the SSO Chamber Version on Spitfire is 1149.



Why is there a 75% sale on NI's website for cinecamples bundle, while on cinesamples' website the regular prices are still in place?

Because there is a joint marketing campaign going on, initiated by and therefor only on the site/company that offers the sale. 

same as with hardware, with free licenses for third party commercial software


----------



## dzilizzi

RogiervG said:


> Why is there a 75% sale on NI's website for cinecamples bundle, while on cinesamples' website the regular prices are still in place?
> 
> Because there is a joint marketing campaign going on, initiated by and therefor only on the site/company that offers the sale.
> 
> same as with hardware, with free licenses for third party commercial software


But the Luna price is crazy low. So I am thinking it is a limited version in some way.


----------



## RogiervG

i appears so.. looking at the screenshots on that page. (weird greyish gui where the articulation are set etc)


----------



## dzilizzi

I looked at the Chamber Strings page. Nothing on articulations or instruments other than what shows on the picture. And no mic positions. So only whatever mix mic they gave.


----------



## yiph2

At least we know that SSO will receive an update for the Spitfire Player (I think)


----------



## AllanH

dzilizzi said:


> But the Luna price is crazy low. So I am thinking it is a limited version in some way.



I would think that Luna requires an Apollo (Correction: universal audio) interface. Maybe there was a bit of NRE involved.


----------



## yiph2

Just chatted with Spitfire and asked them about it, their answer: Generally speaking though, there is slightly less content in those versions I believe Hence the price adjustments


----------



## Virtuoso

I heard there are no legatos. Maybe UA's player doesn't have that kind of scripting ability?


----------



## gst98

I'm no scripter, but I imagine porting kontakt into UA's player would not be easy. So I assume Spitfire gave UA a custom version of the Spitfire player. They've put basic string parts (longs) inside Shape which is probably simple, but there is a reason the rest of the library doesn't play in Shape.


----------



## yiph2

gst98 said:


> I'm no scripter, but I imagine porting kontakt into UA's player would not be easy. So I assume Spitfire gave UA a custom version of the Spitfire player. They've put basic string parts (longs) inside Shape which is probably simple, but there is a reason the rest of the library doesn't play in Shape.


I'm not a scripter either, but I'm assuming they can use the BBCSO player and port the samples in? I;m not sure though... But I'm pretty sure based on the fact that they did the LUNA thing, they will update SSO soon to the player


----------



## MaxOctane

Is there anywhere to find logic or cubase files of BBCSO projects? I expected to find some on Spitfire's "The Page", but none there.


----------



## Laptoprabbit

_See_


MaxOctane said:


> Is there anywhere to find logic or cubase files of BBCSO projects? I expected to find some on Spitfire's "The Page", but none there.


Hmm, I see "download logic session" at the bottom of most of the tutorial pages? Have to click on the thumbnails first


----------



## Nate Johnson

miket said:


> If anyone is still concerned about the "lack of power" in this library, I started the Ben-Hur prelude for some Easter fun.




DUDE. This sounds SO good. You gotta continue working on the rest of the piece!! And yes, I would also love to peek under the hood at your programming!


----------



## Cormast

AllanH said:


> Why would you not use the VST3? I never install the VST2s anymore. I use Cubase 10.5, and I don't recall there being an issue with VST3s in a very long time.


I don't know why, but on my computer it's an issue. VTS2 works but not VTS3. On cubase 10.5. But, yeah, I forgot to say that it was a specific case.


----------



## yiph2

Just contacted support, they said some interesting things:
SSO update is confirmed/planned
I also talked about my crappy specs, and I asked about whether BBCSO would work, they said this: 
I would actually say, hold off a few weeks - we may have something that is more for you if you're thinking of BBCSO.
They said in about May... Wonder what that is...


----------



## Fleer

BBCSO Lite?


----------



## yiph2

Luckily they said it is before the Spring sale  I would have bought something else
I'm anxiously waiting for it!


----------



## Alex Fraser

yiph2 said:


> I would actually say, hold off a few weeks - we may have something that is more for you if you're thinking of BBCSO.
> They said in about May... Wonder what that is...


<Perks up>
So - something new regarding BBCSO that isn't a spring sale price reduction? Have I got that right? My 16gb MBP arrives tomorrow and a "just the tree/mixes" version of BBCSO would be right up my street.


----------



## yiph2

Might not be related to BBCSO though...
But I'm praying for a Lite version


----------



## Alex Fraser

yiph2 said:


> Might not be related to BBCSO though...
> But I'm praying for a Lite version


Or maybe a repackage/re-jiggling of the SSO at a lower price point? It's been on the market for a while and Spitfire have form. They've made versions of the SSO for the StaffPad iPad app and the new "LUNA" DAW..

..which really looks like the Spitfire player.


----------



## yiph2

Alex Fraser said:


> Or maybe a repackage/re-jiggling of the SSO at a lower price point? It's been on the market for a while and Spitfire have form. They've made versions of the SSO for the StaffPad iPad app and the new "LUNA" DAW..


While I would like that, but I don't see the point. Currently it's $1699, however the BBCSO is the "universal starting point", and it's $999, so I don't see why they would lower it, as the price difference will be so small, everyone would buy the SSO...


----------



## Alex Fraser

yiph2 said:


> While I would like that, but I don't see the point. Currently it's $1699, however the BBCSO is the "universal starting point", and it's $999, so I don't see why they would lower it, as the price difference will be so small, everyone would buy the SSO...


SSO for £449.
Edit: Albiet lite version.








LUNA Spitfire Bundle | UAD Audio Plugins | Universal Audio


The LUNA Spitfire Bundle lets you create with world-class, expertly sampled String, Brass, and Woodwind Collections.




www.uaudio.com




Worth ramming home the point that it's not that far a stretch to imagine normal VST/AU versions.


----------



## yiph2

I know, I posted that before, but it is about 15GB per library... And I said before, it wouldn't be wise for them to price it lower than BBCSO


----------



## RogiervG

Never mind... edited.... Alex had changed his post...  
skip this one please..


----------



## Alex Fraser

Edited my post whist you replied! The wonders of non-realtime convo on the internet.
Lite version of course. Point I'm making is that Spitfire are already moving and re-working their flagship product into different markets at different price points. It won't be a £1500 Kontakt collection forever.

Fun times ahead. If they want to release SSO or BBCSO lite, I'm in.


----------



## RogiervG

yiph2 said:


> But I'm praying for a Lite version




Why? it would defeat the purpose of a universal starting point... 
Because if they would introduce the lite version:
Lite will become the universal starting point (it's cheaper thus more likely a starter point, pack).
The bigger brother *current BBCSO offering* would then be ehm.. well what exactly?
can't be the universal starting point slogan anymore, since lite has replaced that...


----------



## yiph2

RogiervG said:


> Why? it would defeat the purpose of a universal starting point...
> Because if they would introduce the lite version:
> Lite will becine the universal starting point
> the bigger brother *current BBCSO offering* would be the ehm.. well what exactly?
> can't be the universal anymore, since lite has replaced that...


Yes, I understand, but do you think beginners need a million mic positions? I don't think so. Hell, even SSO has less, and they are the most "professional" version out there. It is also very CPU and RAM heavy, and I assume beginners don't have monster setups


----------



## RogiervG

yiph2 said:


> Yes, I understand, but do you think beginners need a million mic positions? I don't think so. Hell, even SSO has less, and they are the most "professional" version out there. It is also very CPU and RAM heavy, and I assume beginners don't have monster setups




I am fine with a lite edition (or everything but all mics version).
However the instruments and articulations should remain the same, if they want to have that "exchange midi data" and have the same results.. the coorporative composing/learning etc.. they touted about with BBCSO from the beginning. If they would remove articulations or instruments,this would not work anymore.

So i think a lite version can be done, only with less mics and maybe, lesser quality of samples (e.g. 16bit instead of 24 e.g.) or something along those limitations.

Maybe they will introduce a BBCCSO? (chamber strings edition ) or BBCBBSO (Better Brass Symphonic Orchestra  )

or how about... maybe blockbuster orchestra, or JWSO (john williams soundtrack orchestra)

or just BBCSO2, the ultimate orchestra (with more instruments, more articulations, and a choir)

Or... BBCSO kontakt version.

Just being silly.. but i have NO idea what the support person is talking about... would be fair if they would give a hint, before the spring sale.. so people can make the right choice: buy something discounted, or go for the new thingy..


----------



## Alex Fraser

RogiervG said:


> Never mind... edited.... Alex had changed his post...
> skip this one please..


Sorry Rogierv I should have clicked the "new posts have been made or what-have-you" link. My bad.

I wonder if Spitfire developed these new SSO editions with one eye on an AU/VST release?
It would seem a logical way to go and I do wonder how many people are buying the full SSO ever since BBSO was released..

Actually, @yiph2 , I think this is your answer. If the conversation with SF support was about your lower system specs and suitable products, this lines up. I'll nail my flag here.


----------



## yiph2

RogiervG said:


> Just being silly.. but i have NO idea what the support person is talking about... would be fair if they would give a hint, before the spring sale.. so people can make the right choice: buy something discounted, or go for the new thingy..


They said it would be released/announced before the Spring sale, so it will be fine!



Alex Fraser said:


> Actually, @yiph2 , I think this is your answer. If the conversation with SF support was about your lower system specs and suitable products, this lines up. I'll nail my flag here.


It doesn't really line up though... I first asked about whether my specs can run SSO, they said it could run it (however said ram is a bit low). Then asked about the SSO update, they said it was planned, and said "As for soon, that's not for me to say!", after that I asked about BBCSO on my specs, and they said the things I posted.


----------



## RogiervG

I bet this week will be the announcement.. because the spring sale is (if not mistaken) early may (first week), maybe even starting during the last few days of april.
and people also need to time to add their wishlists..


----------



## fretti

yiph2 said:


> Then asked about the SSO update, they said it was planned, and said "As for soon, that's not for me to say!"


Afaik for SSO it was planned to make Pro versions, as they did with Chamber Strings (in 2018 that was I think). The content was already available but they removed the additions from their website...
Weither or not they planned to actually update anything in there, or just move it to their new player, no one knows at this point...  (or at least I don't)


Also: I'd actually really like a tuned down version of BBCSO, since I really like the sound of the Strings and Perc, but I don't need as many mic positions and don't want 550+gb on an SSD, when I only use 20% or even less of that regularly...


----------



## yiph2

fretti said:


> Afaik for SSO it was planned to make Pro versions, as they did with Chamber Strings (in 2018 that was I think). The content was already available but they removed the additions from their website...
> Weither or not they planned to actually update anything in there, or just move it to their new player, no one knows at this point...  (or at least I don't)


Yes, it was planned in 2019 to release a pro edition with more mics. What I'm thinking is that Spitfire will port everything to their new player (seems likely as they did with LUNA), and also release the pro versions this year


----------



## John R Wilson

I think this could be an update for the BBCSO. Maybe this will include an option for a lite install of the BBCSO as part of the BBCSO library. 

They have mentioned that an update for the BBCSO is coming very soon!


----------



## Brasart

It might just be an update to BBCSO with ensemble patches alongside improved performance to be honest


----------



## AlainTH

it might be that everybody will know precisely what they will do when they will effectively do.


----------



## Laptoprabbit

It might be improved support for f#, iPad, and the addition of a sm57 mic option.


----------



## Jett Hitt

I sure hope that piano is finally going to appear, but more still, I just want them to fix the damned horn. It is truly wretched. In general, I love the sound of the library, but the horn--ugh. I would also be delighted to see some ensemble patches.


----------



## easyrider

What have I missed?


----------



## yiph2

Brasart said:


> It might just be an update to BBCSO with ensemble patches alongside improved performance to be honest


Doubt it, they told me to hold off for a while, and said "we may have something that is more for you"
If it was an update, there would not really be a reason to not buy it now


----------



## Fleer

easyrider said:


> What have I missed?


Nothing. Go back to sleep


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

I found an annoying little bug which is driving me mad... I've an external cc controller (jl cooper fadermaster) which I use for mixing. For each fader corresponds the cc value of a mic position. If I use the fader assigned to the mids mic whenever and I move cc1, it resets cc 33 to zero. This only happens to the mids mic no matter which fader I assign it to. There's no problem when I move it with the mouse and I know the problem is not with my cc controller, since i tested on each faders and different programs. I was not able to replicate this issue for other cc values. Ideas??? please!


----------



## Zedcars

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I found an annoying little bug which is driving me mad... I've an external cc controller (jl cooper fadermaster) which I use for mixing. For each fader corresponds the cc value of a mic position. If I use the fader assigned to the mids mic whenever and I move cc1, it resets cc 33 to zero. This only happens to the mids mic no matter which fader I assign it to. There's no problem when I move it with the mouse and I know the problem is not with my cc controller, since i tested on each faders and different programs. I was not able to replicate this issue for other cc values. Ideas??? please!


Maybe a workaround is to lock the mic positions once you are happy with their settings (unless you want to automate them during your track?).

Have you submitted a ticket to SA?


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

Zedcars said:


> Maybe a workaround is to lock the mic positions once you are happy with their settings (unless you want to automate them during your track?).
> 
> Have you submitted a ticket to SA?


No I haven’t submitted a ticket yet. How do you lock the mic positions?


----------



## Zedcars

Mattia Chiappa said:


> No I haven’t submitted a ticket yet. How do you lock the mic positions?



From the manual:
"12. LOCK
Click to lock the Mixer. This will prevent further changes to the mixer, useful if you’re happy with what you’ve done and don’t want to accidentally change it. This will even prevent changes made by MIDI controllers, but beware, as soon as you unlock the mixer, the control will be active."


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

Zedcars said:


> From the manual:
> "12. LOCK
> Click to lock the Mixer. This will prevent further changes to the mixer, useful if you’re happy with what you’ve done and don’t want to accidentally change it. This will even prevent changes made by MIDI controllers, but beware, as soon as you unlock the mixer, the control will be active."


Thank you! I’ll give that a try


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> <Perks up>
> So - something new regarding BBCSO that isn't a spring sale price reduction? Have I got that right? My 16gb MBP arrives tomorrow and a "just the tree/mixes" version of BBCSO would be right up my street.



Has it arrived yet, has it arrived yet? 

If they're working on something related but without treading on BBC SO's toes, I hope its Spitfire BBC Radiophonic Workshop. They were also based at Maida Vale....


----------



## dzilizzi

Maybe Thursday? They like to release things on Thursday. 

I'm really thinking it's going to be a modified SCO like they have for Luna. I think the price for it was something like $599?


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> Has it arrived yet, has it arrived yet?


Playing with it now when I should be doing the washing up/feeding cat/prepping baby bottles/going to bed..


----------



## Alex Fraser

dzilizzi said:


> I'm really thinking it's going to be a modified SCO like they have for Luna. I think the price for it was something like $599?


I totally agree. It would be a real risk ploughing all that development time and cost into a Luna only version: New DAW, limited user base etc.. There's got to be more to the story.


----------



## yiph2

As I said, it might not be about BBCSO (there is a chance)... He said "we may have something that is more for you if you are thinking about BBCSO"

And I doubt it's today, he said in a few weeks... So I think the week before the Spring sale


----------



## John R Wilson

yiph2 said:


> As I said, it might not be about BBCSO (there is a chance)... He said "we may have something that is more for you if you are thinking about BBCSO"
> 
> And I doubt it's today, he said in a few weeks... So I think the week before the Spring sale



I think their will be something for the BBCSO in the next few weeks and hope it'll be announced soon. They have mentioned to me that there is going to be a BBCSO update soon. They didn't say any specific dates but have said the date is set for it. 

Maybe the BBCSO will offer some more materials in the update (Piano + Bass Flute) / ensemble patches and improved programming. Could also be more suited/optimised to run on lower spec laptops or indeed run better on higher spec computers. I still struggle to run it and cant use any more than 1/2 mic positions on a 64 GB Ram i7 machine without getting audio drop outs. 

Also, it might be going back on sale soon so it probably would be worth waiting in all cases until the upcoming spring sale hence why they may have said about waiting if you are thinking of getting the BBCSO.


----------



## yiph2

Interesting... However if they don't make a lite version, I'm not going to buy it yet... I only have 8GB RAM  But they said it would be something more for me... I'm waiting


----------



## John R Wilson

yiph2 said:


> Interesting... However if they don't make a lite version, I'm not going to buy it yet... I only have 8GB RAM  But they said it would be something more for me... I'm waiting



That is interesting, hopefully we will know more soon. Yeah I would definitely say you need more than 8GB ram to run the BBCSO currently.


----------



## yiph2

Yes, but for some reason, it still says minimum 8GB RAM on the Spitfire website... definitely not...
But I asked about using the SSD, and they said it will be fine if I freeze my tracks...
Might ask them again if it's something else that is released


----------



## GingerMaestro

I would certainly be interested in a lite version of Spitfire Chamber Strings or BBCSO I wish other sample developers would take a leaf out of Project Sam's book, who just released a lite version of Symphobia 4. In these difficult times, it makes these libraries much more affordable and attractive, particularly if you want to try them out, or want just some core sounds and articulations. At this stage I don't need 100 versions of a Spitfire Flautanto, but would love to try SCS and some BBCSO Winds and Strings to see how the might fit in my template. Fingers Crossed...


----------



## giwro

And I'd certainly be interested in BBCSO with 1-2 mic perspectives instead of the myriad now available - such a product would be faster to download, and potentially easier on resources.


----------



## Fleer

I'm hoping it'll be BBCSO Lite (including a piano) at a lower price and cpu load while BBCSOwners will get it added to their account.


----------



## John R Wilson

giwro said:


> And I'd certainly be interested in BBCSO with 1-2 mic perspectives instead of the myriad now available - such a product would be faster to download, and potentially easier on resources.



An option to download only the mics you want would be good. At the current time I cant use any more than 2 anyway and I probably would never make use of any of the individual spill mics.


----------



## Zero&One

John R Wilson said:


> An option to download only the mics you want would be good. At the current time I cant use any more than 2 anyway and I probably would never make use of any of the individual spill mics.



Delete them, there's a post earlier on this. I can dig it out if you want it?


----------



## John R Wilson

Zero&One said:


> Delete them, there's a post earlier on this. I can dig it out if you want it?



Think I may have missed that post. Yeah that would good


----------



## Zero&One

John R Wilson said:


> Think I may have missed that post. Yeah that would good



Here you go  

I removed most of the spills, mono/mids and a few others. I have moved them to a spare drive, just in case there's a major update or something that requires them?
Works a treat, most of them (see post) appear greyed out when completed.

As with anything, make sure you backup first. And move them first, test, then delete.






Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


Alright. So the way to eliminate other mic positions is to simply do the following. In your BBC folder "F:\Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra\Samples\_Strings" you can find all mic positions with their respective samples. First, a chart. CL01 = Close MI01 = Mix 1 MI02 = Mix 2 TR01 = Tree...




vi-control.net


----------



## John R Wilson

Zero&One said:


> Here you go
> 
> I removed most of the spills, mono/mids and a few others. I have moved them to a spare drive, just in case there's a major update or something that requires them?
> Works a treat, most of them (see post) appear greyed out when completed.
> 
> As with anything, make sure you backup first. And move them first, test, then delete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra
> 
> 
> Alright. So the way to eliminate other mic positions is to simply do the following. In your BBC folder "F:\Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra\Samples\_Strings" you can find all mic positions with their respective samples. First, a chart. CL01 = Close MI01 = Mix 1 MI02 = Mix 2 TR01 = Tree...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



Thanks for this. This seems like a workaround in regards to what mics are installed. That should help save some hard drive space


----------



## Karma

There's actually an official article for that too:








How can I remove specific microphones from the BBC SO?


The BBC Symphony Orchestra gives you a large array of different microphone positions to choose from. Having access to these additional microphone signals can give you a great amount of control, how...




spitfireaudio.zendesk.com


----------



## yiph2

Karma said:


> There's actually an official article for that too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can I remove specific microphones from the BBC SO?
> 
> 
> The BBC Symphony Orchestra gives you a large array of different microphone positions to choose from. Having access to these additional microphone signals can give you a great amount of control, how...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spitfireaudio.zendesk.com


I see something VERY interesting on this article
The first sentence says: BBC Symphony Orchestra *Professional...*
So maybe there will be a lite version...


----------



## Laptoprabbit

yiph2 said:


> I see something VERY interesting on this article
> The first sentence says: BBC Symphony Orchestra *Professional...*
> So maybe there will be a lite version...


Pretty sure that's just because the article's been copied over from the https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/h...-specific-microphones-from-the-Studio-series- article


----------



## yiph2

Might be, but they copied different mics...
Or maybe I'm too excited about the lite edtion


----------



## Zedcars

But how does any of this square with their “One Orchestra” mantra? Maybe they’ll update it to “One and a Half Orchestras”?


----------



## yiph2

"Half Orchestra" for lite edition


----------



## Artemi

Can anyone tell me about the differences of BBC strings compared to Spitfire Symphonic Strings, Berlin strings?


----------



## bfreepro

Artemi said:


> Can anyone tell me about the differences of BBC strings compared to Spitfire Symphonic Strings, Berlin strings?


The biggest difference is the overall tone which is heavily reliant on where the instruments were actually recorded. Spitfire symphonic Strings were recorded in AIR hall, which is super wet and lush, sometimes too wet and reverberant honestly, but a great and very realistic sounding library for a big Hollywood style sound. Spitfire Symphonic only has sections and ensembles, no “leaders” or solo players, but a TON of articulations.

Berlin Strings are recorded at Teldex scoring stage which offers a lot more clarity to my ears, being less wet but definitely not a dry sound. The section sizes are also quite a bit smaller, which again give it more clarity, detail, and intimacy. It’s also worth mentioning with anything in the Berlin series, they’re often more expensive, plus you often have to pay quite a bit more to get additional content in their expansions. Often some this expansion content is included in the regular package of another company, so in many instances Berlin ends up being significantly more expensive (not saying it isn’t worth it though, up to what kind of sound you want)...

BBCSO Strings have sections, leaders (solo players) and quite a good amount of articulations, but this time recorded in a much less reverberant space than AIR and again just have a different overall sound and feel. 

The biggest thing to research when deciding between multiple libraries (besides listening to tons of walkthrus and demos to determine which one you like the sound of) are checking section sizes and the amount of articulations, and also worth looking into which sampler they use and Any advanced features you may want (performance based patches, ensembles for sketching, polyphonic legato, etc)

A really broad summary just on sound alone:
Spitfire symphonic is big, wet, and filmic (Hollywood sound)
Berlin Strings are smaller, less wet, and more detailed (a bit more intimate and classic sounding) 
BBCSO has big sections which are still detailed but not loud, and has a more classical music type sound


----------



## Artemi

bfreepro said:


> A really broad summary just on sound alone:
> Spitfire symphonic is big, wet, and filmic (Hollywood sound)
> Berlin Strings are smaller, less wet, and more detailed (a bit more intimate and classic sounding)
> BBCSO has big sections which are still detailed but not loud, and has a more classical music type sound



from your answer I get that they all pretty different, but I guess from the demos that I heard SSS and SBBC are pretty close to each other


----------



## Karma

Laptoprabbit said:


> Pretty sure that's just because the article's been copied over from the https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/h...-specific-microphones-from-the-Studio-series- article


Good eye, and correct. I've edited it now to reflect! Sorry guys


----------



## yiph2

So apparently not BBCSO lite :(
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/choosing-new-up-to-date-orchestra-library.92246/post-4541380


----------



## Alex Fraser

yiph2 said:


> So apparently not BBCSO lite :(
> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/choosing-new-up-to-date-orchestra-library.92246/post-4541380


Post deleted, the plot thickens, dramatic music etc.
Anyone got any chocolate left?


----------



## yiph2

What the person said: "We asked him he wouldn't tell us. But he sorted hinted at another full orchestra library."


----------



## GingerMaestro

I think I remember reading somewhere that they may have some other BBC projects planned. I can't really see what other type of full orchestra library they would want to make as they have most everything covered with BBC, Studio Orchestra, Symphony Orchestra, Chamber Strings etc...unless it's some kind of a chamber orchestra. What would be cool would be a BBC big band library. It's not really any of my concern, but I don't really see how they can make money on the many large libraries they produce. This is a very niche market and the overheads for recording a full orchestra must be huge. Anyhow, excited to see what's in the pipeline. Chamber Orchestra of London record a lot of film soundtracks, so maybe something along those lines...


----------



## yiph2

GingerMaestro said:


> I think I remember reading somewhere that they may have some other BBC projects planned. I can't really see what other type of full orchestra library they would want to make as they have most everything covered with BBC, Studio Orchestra, Symphony Orchestra, Chamber Strings etc...unless it's some kind of a chamber orchestra. What would be cool would be a BBC big band library. It's not really any of my concern, but I don't really see how they can make money on the many large libraries they produce. This is a very niche market and the overheads for recording a full orchestra must be huge. Anyhow, excited to see what's in the pipeline. Chamber Orchestra of London record a lot of film soundtracks, so maybe something along those lines...


I asked them a while back about BBC Big Band, they said they have no plans for that...


----------



## redlester

Artemi said:


> Can anyone tell me about the differences of BBC strings compared to Spitfire Symphonic Strings, Berlin strings?



Paul did this video a while back, obviously only Spitfire products but should help with your question about Symphonic Strings.


----------



## bfreepro

Artemi said:


> from your answer I get that they all pretty different, but I guess from the demos that I heard SSS and SBBC are pretty close to each other


I have them both, they sound very different. I’m actually planning a video comparing bbcso with SSO, as many people seem to wonder what they sound like back to back. Possibly a few other separate videos comparing different libraries from various companies (one for strings, one for brass, etc).
I can do a quick unprofessional screen cap just showing the string sounds from SSS and BBC if you’re interested? Paul’s video covers that too but if it’s something that may help it’s no problem.


----------



## prodigalson

While in quarantine I decided to study some orchestration by mocking up some classical works and thought it would be a good opportunity to dive into BBCSO more significantly.

Attached is literally a first pass at Pavane for the Sleeping Princess from Ravel's Mother Goose Suite. When I say first pass, I literally mean first pass. I didn't edit anything. This is entirely just me playing each part in in one pass, no redoing CC data. Im just shocked at the blend and how the dynamics just seem to work. 

The library has problems of course: phasing in the WW, low dynamic layers, not the greatest programming but NO orchestra I have (sadly, I have them all) just immediately blends together like this. 

Again, there are problems and there is literally no programming or editing here. But just listen to the sonic signature of this. All I added was a little Pro-R and a little Neve 33609 on the master bus for some glue. Thats all.


----------



## AndyP

Found a new bug.

Today I built a reduced template with reduced articulations for my MacBook.
I rearranged the keyswitches and adapted the playable zones to my 4 octaves Korg microKey.
Now when I play the violas legato staccato (which is possible) I get a tremolo in the background on certain notes. This happens also with other articulations.
Has anyone noticed anything similar?

Latch mode is not activated.










I wanted to post an example, but in the export of the audio file you don't hear that anymore. Only when I play it live. Crazy!

Edit:
I experimented a little bit more.
The error occurs as soon as I switch to tremolo via keyswitch. No matter which articulation I choose, the tremolo is always audible in addition.

So I record it on a midi track, play it back. The error remains.
I export the file, the error is gone as long as I don't use the keyswitches again. It happens also with thrills.


----------



## dcoscina

I just used BBCSO on a track today and it was great to just focus on the music because the sections balance themselves out so nicely. I didn’t need aggressive horns so it worked out great.


----------



## Fleer

AndyP said:


> Found a new bug.
> 
> Today I built a reduced template with reduced articulations for my MacBook.
> I rearranged the keyswitches and adapted the playable zones to my 4 octaves Korg microKey.
> Now when I play the violas legato staccato (which is possible) I get a tremolo in the background on certain notes. This happens also with other articulations.
> Has anyone noticed anything similar?
> 
> Latch mode is not activated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like this:


Thank you for this. Would also like to try a bit of BBCSO on my first gen MacBook (not Air, not Pro). Always loved the über-stylish laptop. Sad that Apple discontinued them.


----------



## bfreepro

Thought they fixed the memory leak issue? 12.3 gb loaded in plugin, Windows reporting that Studio One is using 4 gb... wow haha (I have 64gb)


----------



## bfreepro

the same arrangement with default mics from BBCSO (mix 1) and SSO (just the tree), both with a tiny amount of Valhalla Room reverb on them. Tried to match dynamics and volume as well as I could. The default mix in BBC is a mix of close and tree and ambient I believe, so I was a bit surprised at the clarity in the SSO version especially the strings since it has no close mics at all


----------



## Artemi

bfreepro said:


> I have them both, they sound very different. I’m actually planning a video comparing bbcso with SSO, as many people seem to wonder what they sound like back to back. Possibly a few other separate videos comparing different libraries from various companies (one for strings, one for brass, etc).
> I can do a quick unprofessional screen cap just showing the string sounds from SSS and BBC if you’re interested? Paul’s video covers that too but if it’s something that may help it’s no problem.


wow man that would be awesome, I would really enjoy strings only comparison, longs-spicatto-legato
also do you have spitfire woodwinds? It would be nice to hear them back to back with the BBC woodwinds


----------



## bfreepro

BBC Strings vs SSO (mostly shorts for this one) ... surprised how thunderous the BBC basses and celli can get... the dynamic range for strings is pretty huge, especially when you compare to how early the BBC horns top out in the dynamic range. I think overall strings are the most impressive here and an obvious strong point for spitfire in general


----------



## bfreepro

Woodwinds.. I'm gonna follow up with the piccolo and cor anglais isolated...


----------



## bfreepro

here you can REALLY hear, the legato in the SSO in general is superior for the brass and woods especially... barely any transitions with the BBC and at the very end, you can hear it gets sloppy and completely misses a note with the cor anglais line


----------



## Artemi

BBC strings seems to be a bit louder, but if I'm not mistaken they do really sound different. I've rewatched the Paul's demo yesterday and BBC strings reminded me a bit of Berlin strings.


----------



## bfreepro

percs/harp.


----------



## bfreepro

Artemi said:


> BBC strings seems to be a bit louder, but if I'm not mistaken they do really sound different. I've rewatched the Paul's demo yesterday and BBC strings reminded me a bit of Berlin strings.


BBC is definitely louder by default, I turned each SSO instance up quite a bit too haha. The dynamic range is a bit different too, where SSO gets more quiet at the lowest dynamics and louder and the highest dynamics, where BBC is more "compressed" or evened out.


----------



## bfreepro

and finally, brass!

So my initial thoughts (literally just got BBC like 3 nights ago?)
- BBC it definitely feels like they're all there in the same space, I got soo tired of hearing it described as "cohesive" but.. well.. it is. However the BBC demos all featured exceptional clarity that I had not heard in the SSO, but so far it actually feels a bit muddy? Maybe it's just me and I need to give my ears a break
-BBC Horn dynamics are weak, but honestly so is the SSO even with the 6 horns, and neither are going for crazy bold, so that's a draw really.
-Legato for BBC strings is not bad, with nice portamento, but in general legato for woods and brass are very disappointing especially when compared with SSO, but it is 999 bucks for an entire orchestra vs I think around 2 grand for full SSO plus percs, harp, solo strings.
-Bugs and quirks with both- both have wonky legato transitions with various instruments at random places, and little bugs here and there (one note on BBC bass clarinet at lowest dynamics sounds like its being played full blast just with the volume lowered , it sounds very raspy, then one note above it all is normal and its warm and soft again, little things like that)
-BBC performance legato (which is called legato extended) works very well, just like the performance legato in SSS, chamber strings, etc, and you now have it for woods too. If you don't know what this is, it functions as both short notes when you play the key hard and quickly, and does smooth legato (in theory) plus fast runs. VERY useful for writing without mucking with keyswitches.
-BBC brass shorts are pretty darn good for doing fast tonguing styles (not the multi tongue articulation, but just playing the shorts in rapid succession, which is what I did in these examples at the end with the trumpets)

PERFORMANCE WISE - I still have a major "memory leak" issue with BBC, and I was going to post exact ram usage from this session, but, sadly, I can't, because I have no idea how much ram is actually being used my BBCSO except judging by the percentage in my task manager. It's annoying honestly. Overall I do like the product, it sounds great. Just not perfect of course haha.

Default settings on the Spitfire Plugin were still giving me major dropouts and issues, even when total PC memory and CPU use wasn't even close to the limit. Drop outs were eliminated completely when I used the settings in this post here: https://vi-control.net/community/th...ng”-bbc-symphony-orchestra.84345/post-4535669


----------



## bfreepro

Artemi said:


> wow man that would be awesome, I would really enjoy strings only comparison, longs-spicatto-legato
> also do you have spitfire woodwinds? It would be nice to hear them back to back with the BBC woodwinds


I will try to do a more in depth string comparison tomorrow!


----------



## yiph2

bfreepro said:


> and finally, brass!
> 
> So my initial thoughts (literally just got BBC like 3 nights ago?)


You should have waited for the sale coming up


----------



## bfreepro

Here's the difference between default mix 1 vs mix 2.

"
*MIX 1*

Jake Jackson’s mix, which is a balance of commonly used microphone positions. A great starting point!

This is specifically a mix of the Decca Tree, Outriggers, Ambient, Balcony, Mids (not on the Strings!), and Close signals.

*MIX 2*

Jake Jackson’s second mix, which is a bit more ‘hyped’ in sound, with some added Compression, EQ, and Reverb.

This is specifically a mix of the Decca Tree, Outriggers, Ambient, Balcony, Sides, Atmos Front, Stereo, Mids and Close signals. Neither of Jake’s mixes use the Spill signals, so these can be dialled in as bonus!"

You can definitely hear the volume difference and the "hyped" nature.. I actually prefer Mix 1, a bit too much resonance in mix 2


----------



## bfreepro

Mix 1 plus 30% of the "Full Spills" mic (so the instruments all bleed into each other more) vs Mix 1 by itself , example A is louder because of this too, will try to do another one tomorrow too but for now here it is. Is it worth the extra ram use to have a bit of bleed? Not sure ... probably not? sounds pretty damn good without it


----------



## yiph2

Thanks for the comparisons


----------



## bfreepro

yiph2 said:


> Thanks for the comparisons


If there's anything else you guys want, let me know. I have a ton of libs haha


----------



## Artemi

bfreepro said:


> If there's anything else you guys want, let me know. I have a ton of libs haha


thanks for comparisons!
what strings and woodwinds libraries do you have?


----------



## yiph2

bfreepro said:


> If there's anything else you guys want, let me know. I have a ton of libs haha


Could you share how much memory is used if you use Christian's template? Thanks


----------



## bfreepro

Artemi said:


> thanks for comparisons!
> what strings and woodwinds libraries do you have?


Strings: Afflatus, CSS, Jaeger/Nucleus, Spitfire Symphonic/Chamber, Hollywood Strings, 8dio Century Strings, Berlin Inspire, Ark 1, 2, and 4, Novo (I might be missing some..)
Woods: VSL Synchronized Woods, Spitfire Symphonic, Vento, Nucleus, Berlin Inspire, Ark 1, 2, and 4, Berlin Soloists, 8dio claire woods 

I have Berlin strings but would need to redownload, haven't used em in quite a while


----------



## Artemi

bfreepro said:


> Strings: Afflatus, CSS, Jaeger/Nucleus, Spitfire Symphonic/Chamber, Hollywood Strings, 8dio Century Strings, Berlin Inspire, Ark 1, 2, and 4, Novo (I might be missing some..)
> Woods: VSL Synchronized Woods, Spitfire Symphonic, Vento, Nucleus, Berlin Inspire, Ark 1, 2, and 4, Berlin Soloists, 8dio claire woods
> 
> I have Berlin strings but would need to redownload, haven't used em in quite a while


wow what a collection you have! do you have a youtube channel or page?
concerning Berlin strings, that would probable be a hassle, I'm trying to edit some videos to hear them side by side, but I think I made my mind on that already thanks to hearing Daniel James demos, and yours too.

why don't u use Berlin strings may I ask? do not enjoy the sound of it, or workflow?


----------



## bfreepro

yiph2 said:


> Could you share how much memory is used if you use Christian's template? Thanks


I did not use a template, I started this from empty just adding in tracks. Using the patches with all articulations activated, and memory usage is a mystery to me right now. I'll share what the plugin says, but there's a memory leak somewhere...

Plugin will report 6.89 gb, Task manager says Studio One is taking up 5.2gb, then looking deeper at the performance panel, a whopping 32gb of ram is being used. 

With the full spill mic dialed in just 30 percent, my ram usage goes up to 83%, but again the plugin and DAW are reporting WAY less (a little over 13gb....). This is my biggest complaint with the library right now.


----------



## bfreepro

Artemi said:


> wow what a collection you have! do you have a youtube channel or page?
> concerning Berlin strings, that would probable be a hassle, I'm trying to edit some videos to hear them side by side, but I think I made my mind on that already thanks to hearing Daniel James demos, and yours too.
> 
> why don't u use Berlin strings may I ask? do not enjoy the sound of it, or workflow?


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoWdNCvomHXGbGriD_oS8vA?view_as=subscriber yes my channel is right here, I post a lot in the "reviews" section here doing sample library comparisons so I'd be glad to cover more. As far as Berlin Strings, I do like it but everything from the main Berlin Libs use a ton of RAM, I love their woodwind soloists but for the strings I like Spitfire Chamber or CSS better for that smaller sound, or even 8dio century for their arc articulations, I do like OT a lot but I think spitfire can coax out the most realistic string sound while CSS has the smoothest legato. On the contrary, brass is a huge weak point for spitfire and JXL Brass absolutely kills any of spitfire's offerings (even for softer passages), but I digress haha. Everything from Berlin series is definitely quality though


----------



## yiph2

bfreepro said:


> I did not use a template, I started this from empty just adding in tracks. Using the patches with all articulations activated, and memory usage is a mystery to me right now. I'll share what the plugin says, but there's a memory leak somewhere...
> 
> Plugin will report 6.89 gb, Task manager says Studio One is taking up 5.2gb, then looking deeper at the performance panel, a whopping 32gb of ram is being used.
> 
> With the full spill mic dialed in just 30 percent, my ram usage goes up to 83%, but again the plugin and DAW are reporting WAY less (a little over 13gb....). This is my biggest complaint with the library right now.


Thanks! Which orchestral library do you think uses the least RAM?


----------



## bfreepro

yiph2 said:


> Thanks! Which orchestral library do you think uses the least RAM?


For a full orchestra with the lightest footprint, Audio Imperia Nucleus is crazy good, just limited on articulations and playing style. In general Spitfire's kontakt libs are a lot easier on resources than Berlin, which is why I love them so much, good value, insane amount of articulations and content, and relatively light on resources. I generally use a hodgepodge of different libraries from different companies but for sketching I've turned to Nucleus, filling in the more advanced aritculations with spitfire woods and strings, JXL brass, sometimes CSS for legato. I save ram by just loading up single articulations usually, since for instance I use performance legato from spitfire strings, sustains from nucleus, shorts from CSS, etc. I'm hoping BBC memory leak issue will be fixed because it could be pretty darn good too for what it offers, if what my DAW is reporting is accurate...


----------



## Denkii

yiph2 said:


> Thanks! Which orchestral library do you think uses the least RAM?


Infinite.


----------



## yiph2

Denkii said:


> Infinite.


Yes, heard of that, but not really full orchestral yet, still needs strings and perc


----------



## bfreepro

Denkii said:


> Infinite.


They have an April sale too... been wanting to check em out!


----------



## gussunkri

bfreepro said:


> the same arrangement with default mics from BBCSO (mix 1) and SSO (just the tree), both with a tiny amount of Valhalla Room reverb on them. Tried to match dynamics and volume as well as I could. The default mix in BBC is a mix of close and tree and ambient I believe, so I was a bit surprised at the clarity in the SSO version especially the strings since it has no close mics at all


Both sound amazing!


----------



## redlester

yiph2 said:


> Which orchestral library do you think uses the least RAM?





Denkii said:


> Infinite.



How ironic!


----------



## muk

Thanks for the comparison @beefpro. Very helpful. 

Soundwise I prefer BBC SO. It sounds clear, transparent, and crisp. If you listen to the BBC SO percussion, the depth there is just fantastic! SSO sounds a bit veiled in comparison.

For the mockup I prefer the SSO version though. It sounds a bit more refined, while BBC SO has its bumps where it sounds slightly less believable. I think part of it is in the crossfades, which are sometimes audible in BBC SO, and maybe the legato too. The legato on piccolo and english horn really don't sound too good on their own. Interestingly I think that the instrument balance in SSO is better, despite BBC SO is said to be mixed and balanced out of the box.


----------



## bfreepro

muk said:


> Thanks for the comparison @beefpro. Very helpful.
> 
> Soundwise I prefer BBC SO. It sounds clear, transparent, and crisp. If you listen to the BBC SO percussion, the depth there is just fantastic! SSO sounds a bit veiled in comparison.
> 
> For the mockup I prefer the SSO version though. It sounds a bit more refined, while BBC SO has its bumps where it sounds slightly less believable. I think part of it is in the crossfades, which are sometimes audible in BBC SO, and maybe the legato too. The legato on piccolo and english horn really don't sound too good on their own. Interestingly I think that the instrument balance in SSO is better, despite BBC SO is said to be mixed and balanced out of the box.


I plan to use bbc as the backbone of my orchestral template because it does sound very realistic and has a sense of space and depth that is very impressive. As for the solo instruments I’ll stick with using what I have now for those really lyrical and exposed lines  it is funny because I always used SSO as the backbone of my tracks simply because it had such width... but listening back to back it really lacks the depth and definition (not that it’s bad, but they just did such a good job capturing the space and separation between sections this time!)


----------



## John R Wilson

bfreepro said:


> I plan to use bbc as the backbone of my orchestral template because it does sound very realistic and has a sense of space and depth that is very impressive. As for the solo instruments I’ll stick with using what I have now for those really lyrical and exposed lines  it is funny because I always used SSO as the backbone of my tracks simply because it had such width... but listening back to back it really lacks the depth and definition (not that it’s bad, but they just did such a good job capturing the space and separation between sections this time!)



What do you mainly use for you solo instruments?


----------



## bfreepro

John R Wilson said:


> What do you mainly use for you solo instruments?


I really like the libraries that focus on an expressive performance: the soloist expansions from Berlin woodwinds, century solo brass, and emotional cello and violin. For anything that isn’t exposed the solo/leaders in bbc will be great but the legato just isn’t on par with the ones I mentioned


----------



## John R Wilson

muk said:


> Thanks for the comparison @beefpro. Very helpful.
> 
> Soundwise I prefer BBC SO. It sounds clear, transparent, and crisp. If you listen to the BBC SO percussion, the depth there is just fantastic! SSO sounds a bit veiled in comparison.
> 
> For the mockup I prefer the SSO version though. It sounds a bit more refined, while BBC SO has its bumps where it sounds slightly less believable. I think part of it is in the crossfades, which are sometimes audible in BBC SO, and maybe the legato too. The legato on piccolo and english horn really don't sound too good on their own. Interestingly I think that the instrument balance in SSO is better, despite BBC SO is said to be mixed and balanced out of the box.



I agree, overall soundwise I also prefer the BBCSO. As you say the SSO does sound a little veiled in comparison, probably because it has more wet samples.

However, I also feel that their is points when the BBCSO can sound less believable. This is probably down to the legatos in the BBCSO. The Legatos using the Piccolo and English Horn sounded much better in the SSO example over the BBCSO examples.


----------



## bfreepro

John R Wilson said:


> I agree, overall soundwise I also prefer the BBCSO. As you say the SSO does sound a little veiled in comparison, probably because it has more wet samples.
> 
> However, again I also feel that their is points when the BBCSO can sound less believable. This is probably down to the legatos in the BBCSO. The Legatos using the Piccolo and English Horn sounded much better in the SSO example over the BBCSO examples.


Absolutely agreed, the legato (or lack thereof) is the biggest disappointment here. It works with the strings but with the brass and woods it’s... just not good. Basically zero transition between notes


----------



## John R Wilson

bfreepro said:


> I really like the libraries that focus on an expressive performance: the soloist expansions from Berlin woodwinds, century solo brass, and emotional cello and violin. For anything that isn’t exposed the solo/leaders in bbc will be great but the legato just isn’t on par with the ones I mentioned



I'll check those out.  

Also, thanks for all the comparisons you posted. It is very helpful to hear the SSO and BBCSO side by side.


----------



## John R Wilson

bfreepro said:


> Absolutely agreed, the legato (or lack thereof) is the biggest disappointment here. It works with the strings but with the brass and woods it’s... just not good. Basically zero transition between notes



I agree, the legatos could definitely be much improved.


----------



## muk

bfreepro said:


> I plan to use bbc as the backbone of my orchestral template because it does sound very realistic and has a sense of space and depth that is very impressive.



That's exactly why I am contemplating to buy BBC SO. So far I have used VSL SE for these background tasks. BBC SO simply sounds so much better. If used in the background, I hope it can infuse a bit of that depth and beauty of sound without the problems and flaws becoming audible.


----------



## AndyP

AndyP said:


> Found a new bug.
> 
> Today I built a reduced template with reduced articulations for my MacBook.
> I rearranged the keyswitches and adapted the playable zones to my 4 octaves Korg microKey.
> Now when I play the violas legato staccato (which is possible) I get a tremolo in the background on certain notes. This happens also with other articulations.
> Has anyone noticed anything similar?
> 
> Latch mode is not activated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to post an example, but in the export of the audio file you don't hear that anymore. Only when I play it live. Crazy!
> 
> Edit:
> I experimented a little bit more.
> The error occurs as soon as I switch to tremolo via keyswitch. No matter which articulation I choose, the tremolo is always audible in addition.
> 
> So I record it on a midi track, play it back. The error remains.
> I export the file, the error is gone as long as I don't use the keyswitches again. It happens also with thrills.


Continued today and started with the violins. Exactly the same problem. As soon as I change to tremolos or thrills these articulations remain like a layer. No matter what other articulation I change to.

I opened a ticket and I am curious about the answer. If this is a bug that is not solved quickly, BBCSO is useless for me, because I usually do the preliminary work on my MacBook.

I also don't have to move ranges and KS anymore. It also happens with the default patches.

Whenever I want to use BBCSO a new problem appears. Why does this only happen to me with this library?

Edit: 
And now I wanted to use the repair function and again I have no repair attempts left.
I had that last time, too, and could execute this function exactly once and now it doesn't work again.
I have no more desire for this diva ...


----------



## Studiostriver

bfreepro said:


> BBC Strings vs SSO (mostly shorts for this one) ... surprised how thunderous the BBC basses and celli can get... the dynamic range for strings is pretty huge, especially when you compare to how early the BBC horns top out in the dynamic range. I think overall strings are the most impressive here and an obvious strong point for spitfire in general


Wow. BBC sounds so much better here.


----------



## Jett Hitt

bfreepro said:


> Absolutely agreed, the legato (or lack thereof) is the biggest disappointment here. It works with the strings but with the brass and woods it’s... just not good. Basically zero transition between notes


@beefpro Thank you so much for doing these! Based on what I hear and what is said, there seems to be no reason to own SSS if you own BBCSO, no? (I own all of the SF orchestral stuff except for SSS, JB Percussion, Piano, and Harp.)

If one chose to use SSW and SSB with BBCSO, what happens to that cohesion? Is there an overall advantage to sticking purely with BBCSO?


----------



## bfreepro

Jett Hitt said:


> @beefpro Thank you so much for doing these! Based on what I hear and what is said, there seems to be no reason to own SSS if you own BBCSO, no? (I own all of the SF orchestral stuff except for SSS, JB Percussion, Piano, and Harp.)
> 
> If one chose to use SSW and SSB with BBCSO, what happens to that cohesion? Is there an overall advantage to sticking purely with BBCSO?


I think BBC strings are absolutely amazing, and I much prefer them over SSS. The only reason I_ might _keep SSS in the template is for the performance legato, but, BBCSO has this feature as well, so it's seeming less and less likely I'll need both.

As far as blending, let's do some tests later! I'm rebuilding my own template with BBC as the base, then adding in JXL brass for FFF, berlin woodwind soloists and things like that. I can do a test run with blending SSW and SSB with BBC as well.

I think you'll be able to blend in the woods and brass fairly well, but not so much the percussion, you can really hear the biggest difference (as far as a sense of space and depth) in the percussion patch comparison. Again, I may keep Spitfire Perc timpani because it does get a bit more bombastic and boomy, but the Percussion and Strings from BBC are most impressive to me. Hopefully they will improve the wood and brass legato down the line, but for now (just for exposed soloists) I'm gonna stick to something a bit more expressivee/lyrical


----------



## CT

If you're troubled by the legatos, try the legato-only patches, not the performance ones with all the overlay stuff. The horn in particular has a gorgeous, lyrical sound that can get obscured by the additional programming in the other patch.


----------



## bfreepro

miket said:


> If you're troubled by the legatos, try the legato-only patches, not the performance ones with all the overlay stuff. The horn in particular has a gorgeous, lyrical sound that can get obscured by the additional programming in the other patch.


The horn and hornsa4 do sound great, even with the extended legato art! The woodwinds don't have any other legato options though :(

So I will definitely stand corrected here: it seems the lesser used instruments just didn't get the same legato treatment: oboe and flute legato generally sounds great, then english horn and piccolo seem to be the polar opposite. ya win some and lose some. As with all libraries, sometimes there are bugs and quirks depending on which range you play the instrument in. Overall I very much enjoy the library for what it is


----------



## Jett Hitt

miket said:


> If you're troubled by the legatos, try the legato-only patches, not the performance ones with all the overlay stuff. The horn in particular has a gorgeous, lyrical sound that can get obscured by the additional programming in the other patch.


Would you please elaborate on what you mean here? As far as I can tell, I have one legato patch and nothing more. I find the manual to be pretty Spartan in its descriptions. It doesn't, for example, really elaborate much on legato extended.


----------



## bfreepro

Jett Hitt said:


> Would you please elaborate on what you mean here? As far as I can tell, I have one legato patch and nothing more. I find the manual to be pretty Spartan in its descriptions. It doesn't, for example, really elaborate much on legato extended.


There's a "hidden" regular legato patch in some instruments here (click the tiny icon to the bottom right of "FX", it opens the technique editor, and you can remove or add articulations to be loaded and assigned here :


----------



## Jett Hitt

bfreepro said:


> There's a "hidden" regular legato patch in some instruments here (click the tiny icon to the bottom right of "FX", it opens the technique editor, and you can remove or add articulations to be loaded and assigned here :



Thank you! For whatever reason, that video won't play, but I found it. It would have never occurred to me to look for a second legato or, most importantly, that they would somehow be different.


----------



## CT

There are also a few instruments that don't have the extended legato patches yet. The clarinets, for one. I believe these were mentioned to be part of the ongoing updates.


----------



## Jett Hitt

miket said:


> There are also a few instruments that don't have the extended legato patches yet. The clarinets, for one. I believe these were mentioned to be part of the ongoing updates.


I use @babylonwaves Logic Articulation Sets, but they don't have the option to add these additional legatos. Hopefully, Marc can add those.

Kudos @miket for pointing these out. That new horn legato is like an early Christmas present.


----------



## jbuhler

Jett Hitt said:


> I use @babylonwaves Logic Articulation Sets, but they don't have the option to add these additional legatos. Hopefully, Marc can add those.
> 
> Kudos @miket for pointing these out. That new horn legato is like an early Christmas present.


It's easy enough to add these yourself, building on the Babylon Waves set. You just have to get the keyswitch as assigned in the SF Player.


----------



## Jett Hitt

jbuhler said:


> It's easy enough to add these yourself, building on the Babylon Waves set. You just have to get the keyswitch as assigned in the SF Player.



That sounds easy enough. I have done it for other libraries. But BBCSO? I have no idea what the key switches are, and there is not a word about it in the manual. (For the legato horn) There doesn't seem to be one assigned.


----------



## gussunkri

Jett Hitt said:


> That sounds easy enough. I have done it for other libraries. But BBCSO? I have no idea what the key switches are, and there is not a word about it in the manual. (For the legato horn) There doesn't seem to be one assigned.


There’s help text in the lower left corner of the plug-in. Also the key switches are given for each articulation on the front page where you change how they are activated. In this and in some other regards Spitfire’s plug-in is superior to Kontakt (though inferior in other).


----------



## bfreepro

Jett Hitt said:


> That sounds easy enough. I have done it for other libraries. But BBCSO? I have no idea what the key switches are, and there is not a word about it in the manual. (For the legato horn) There doesn't seem to be one assigned.


Key switches by default start at c-2, the very lowest note possible on the piano roll. By default when you add a new articulation in the technique editor, there is no keyswitch assigned. You just have to edit the "Trigger" option from "none" to "keyswitch" and then pick any key you want


----------



## John R Wilson

bfreepro said:


> There's a "hidden" regular legato patch in some instruments here (click the tiny icon to the bottom right of "FX", it opens the technique editor, and you can remove or add articulations to be loaded and assigned here :




I never noticed this as well!! Would have not realized their was a none extended legato version on some of the instruments. I'm hoping they do improve the legatos in some of the instruments on the next update. 

Out of interest does anyone know why the strings legato patch isn't labelled as an extended legato, is it missing some of the features of the extended legatos? its labelled as a legato patch but has the similar overlayered short notes as the extended patches.

Also, I believe on the extended legato patches you can just make them act like the None- extended legato patches by just pressing down the sustain pedal. It seems to bypass the overlayered short notes and only plays the legato transitions if you do this.


----------



## bfreepro

John R Wilson said:


> I never noticed this as well!! Would have not realized their was a none extended legato version on some of the instruments. I'm hoping they do improve the legatos in some of the instruments on the next update.
> 
> Out of interest does anyone know why the strings legato patch isn't labelled as an extended legato, is it missing some of the features of the extended legatos? its labelled as a legato patch but has the similar overlayered short notes as the extended patches.
> 
> Also, I believe on the extended legato patches you can just make them act like the None- extended legato patches by just pressing down the sustain pedal. It seems to bypass the overlayered short notes and only plays the legato transitions if you do this.


The strings have "extended legato" by default, I have no idea why they are labeled as "legato" even though they operate the same as "extended legato" in the other non-string patches. Says in the manual which I've been scouring the past two nights haha


----------



## Jett Hitt

gussunkri said:


> There’s help text in the lower left corner of the plug-in. Also the key switches are given for each articulation on the front page where you change how they are activated. In this and in some other regards Spitfire’s plug-in is superior to Kontakt (though inferior in other).



Thanks @gussunkri and @bfreepro. That all seems terribly obvious now that you point it out. I guess I have been too reliant on the articulation sets, which really do make life so simple. The downside is that I have never really had to interact with the interface much. So I took some time to relearn what I once knew but have since forgotten. I agree that the SF plugin is superior to Kontakt in some ways, though some things aren't intuitive, which isn't to say they are in Kontakt. Mostly, I really like it.


----------



## vdk-john

Karma said:


> There's actually an official article for that too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can I remove specific microphones from the BBC SO?
> 
> 
> The BBC Symphony Orchestra gives you a large array of different microphone positions to choose from. Having access to these additional microphone signals can give you a great amount of control, how...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spitfireaudio.zendesk.com



Hi @Karma,
Thanks for the link! I did read about this a while ago and now I'm considering doing it at least for a few mic pos.

A few questions that are not covered in that article:
- is it possible / easy enough to add them back after deleting them? (or do I need to manually backup them?)
- if it's possible, let's say by re-installing/repairing from the spitfire app, I assume that would re-install all of them (which might be an issue if at that stage I don't have enough free space available?)
- if a new update comes out, would the updater struggle / require me to have enough space available to re-install all of them in their newest version? If I remember correctly, the spitfire app applies incremental updates / patches, right?

As someone mentioned, having this feature (adding/removing mic pos.) built-in in the spitfire app would be very cool and useful! But it's also fine if it's easy enough to do it manually

Thanks


----------



## prodigalson

Here's my second outing with BBCSO and Ravel's Mother Goose Suite. This time its the first 50 bars or so of "Beauty and the Beast".

A little more programming this time (but not much more) and sadly I had to replace the clarinet feature with Aaron Venture's Infinte Woodwinds because the BBCSO clarinet just wasn't cutting it. I was pleasantly surprised by how easily the IW Clarinet blended with BBCSO. I didn't do anything to it beyond setting the mix mic and adjusting the distance to try and match the BBCSO clarinet. Other than that its just a touch of Pro-R and Seventh Heaven and a little limiting for some volume. Thats it.

EDIT: Updated with a new mp3 that wasn't normalized so actually sounds right!


----------



## Fleer

About the woodwinds, do I remember correctly that an alto flute will be added? Would really love that, as a flute player.


----------



## yiph2

I'm not sure alto flute, but I remember a bass flute and piano


----------



## Jett Hitt

yiph2 said:


> I'm not sure alto flute, but I remember a bass flute and piano


I've heard that, too. But surely there's got to be more to it, no? Alto flute would seem to be more significant than bass.


----------



## yiph2

Does anyone actually use the other flutes? Don't even know what they look like


----------



## bfreepro

yiph2 said:


> Does anyone actually use the other flutes? Don't even know what they look like


Funny... I don't know what it looks like either and I never in my life would have considered using an alto flute... until I used the 8dio Claire Alto Flute and it's still one of the best sample libraries I've heard. Later that year I also read about the score for a film starring Robert Redford called All Is Lost, which has amazing flute passages and I read the composer chose an alto flute for those sections. I can't say for certain why, but I just love the sound of that instrument.









For 'All Is Lost,' A Songwriter Embraces Silence


Alexander Ebert is the singer and songwriter of the band Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros. Now, he's also a film composer. He speaks with NPR about his work onAll Is Lost, which stars Robert Redford as a solitary man lost at sea.




www.wuwm.com


----------



## muk

prodigalson said:


> Here's my second outing with BBCSO and Ravel's Mother Goose Suite. This time its the first 50 bars or so of "Beauty and the Beast".
> 
> A little more programming this time (but not much more) and sadly I had to replace the clarinet feature with Aaron Venture's Infinte Woodwinds because the BBCSO clarinet just wasn't cutting it. I was pleasantly surprised by how easily the IW Clarinet blended with BBCSO. I didn't do anything to it beyond setting the mix mic and adjusting the distance to try and match the BBCSO clarinet. Other than that its just a touch of Pro-R and Seventh Heaven and a little limiting for some volume. Thats it.



Sounds lovely. What's the matter with the BBC SO clarinet?


----------



## Fleer

bfreepro said:


> Funny... I don't know what it looks like either and I never in my life would have considered using an alto flute... until I used the 8dio Claire Alto Flute and it's still one of the best sample libraries I've heard. Later that year I also read about the score for a film starring Robert Redford called All Is Lost, which has amazing flute passages and I read the composer chose an alto flute for those sections. I can't say for certain why, but I just love the sound of that instrument.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For 'All Is Lost,' A Songwriter Embraces Silence
> 
> 
> Alexander Ebert is the singer and songwriter of the band Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros. Now, he's also a film composer. He speaks with NPR about his work onAll Is Lost, which stars Robert Redford as a solitary man lost at sea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wuwm.com


Been wanting to buy a good alto flute for ages but they’re much more expensive than regular ones.


----------



## dzilizzi

Fleer said:


> Been wanting to buy a good alto flute for ages but they’re much more expensive than regular ones.


They are a lot bigger, so it would make sense. They also probably don't sell as many.


----------



## prodigalson

muk said:


> Sounds lovely. What's the matter with the BBC SO clarinet?



It just seemed a but unwieldy, certain legato transitions too loud, some phasing, hard to get it to sit right. Here's the first half of the same piece with the BBCSO clarinet. On coming back to it it actually doesn't sound quite as bad as I remember in the heat of battle. Still prefer the expression and playability of the IW though...also it seems to just sit further back in the soundstage more somehow.

The first mp3 attached is the BBCSO Clarinet. The second is the IW.

EDIT: Just realized why these mp3s were bouncing much harsher and louder than my mix and it was because somehow I had accidentally turned Normalize on  The mp3s now attached are corrected.


----------



## muk

Thanks a lot @prodigalson, very helpful. There are some rough spots with the BBC SO clarinet (part of it due the legato maybe? The transitions do not sound quite right to my ears at various places). Strictly tonewise I prefer the BBC SO clarinet though.


----------



## dcoscina

muk said:


> Thanks a lot @prodigalson, very helpful. There are some rough spots with the BBC SO clarinet (part of it due the legato maybe? The transitions do not sound quite right to my ears at various places). Strictly tonewise I prefer the BBC SO clarinet though.


interesting, I find the legato clarinet to be one of the better instruments compared to their SSWW library which I also own.


----------



## prodigalson

dcoscina said:


> interesting, I find the legato clarinet to be one of the better instruments compared to their SSWW library which I also own.



I def agree with respect to the SSW Clarinet. The BBCSO is much better but still has some of the same issues, I just think the legato transitions are too extreme and both (though the BBCSO certainly isn't as 'honky' as the SSW). Yet, its difficult to get a smooth and controlled performance at this tempo. I definitely think its a lovely instrument but as always its about context and for this particular melody and tempo, it wasn't easy to make it work.


----------



## prodigalson

muk said:


> Thanks a lot @prodigalson, very helpful. There are some rough spots with the BBC SO clarinet (part of it due the legato maybe? The transitions do not sound quite right to my ears at various places). Strictly tonewise I prefer the BBC SO clarinet though.



For sure, its subjective. For me, theres something about the IW in this context that just sounds...right. It immediately gives me the impression of the Cinema Paradiso theme


----------



## Jett Hitt

prodigalson said:


> It just seemed a but unwieldy, certain legato transitions too loud, some phasing, hard to get it to sit right. Here's the first half of the same piece with the BBCSO clarinet. On coming back to it it actually doesn't sound quite as bad as I remember in the heat of battle. Still prefer the expression and playability of the IW though...also it seems to just sit further back in the soundstage more somehow.
> 
> The first mp3 attached is the BBCSO Clarinet. The second is the IW.


I prefer the BBCSO clarinet here. The transitions aren't as smooth, but the tone makes up for it in my opinion. I also really like where it sits in the mix.


----------



## jbuhler

prodigalson said:


> I def agree with respect to the SSW Clarinet. The BBCSO is much better but still has some of the same issues, I just think the legato transitions are too extreme and both (though the BBCSO certainly isn't as 'honky' as the SSW). Yet, its difficult to get a smooth and controlled performance at this tempo. I definitely think its a lovely instrument but as always its about context and for this particular melody and tempo, it wasn't easy to make it work.


The clarinet and clarinets a2 are my least favorite instruments in SSW. I have never been able to make them sound better than passable in a lyrical context. I agree that the problems with the BBCSO clarinet resemble those of SSW. Like others, I also prefer the tone of the BBCSO clarinet here to the other one.


----------



## dcoscina

jbuhler said:


> The clarinet and clarinets a2 are my least favorite instruments in SSW. I have never been able to make them sound better than passable in a lyrical context. I agree that the problems with the BBCSO clarinet resemble those of SSW. Like others, I also prefer the tone of the BBCSO clarinet here to the other one.


There's too much vibrato on the SSW clarinets. I like the BBCSO clarinet much more.


----------



## jbuhler

dcoscina said:


> There's too much vibrato on the SSW clarinets. I like the BBCSO clarinet much more.


I agree. It's just that the BBCSO clarinet displeases me along the same axis that the SSW clarinet displeases me. The BBCSO clarinet is not as far down that axis, however, and so displeases me less. I imagine that I would be able to write many more passages for it that I consider passable, but I don't see myself ever loving it. It will be rather like the flutes in SSW, which I also don't love but can almost always make tolerable.


----------



## dcoscina

jbuhler said:


> I agree. It's just that the BBCSO clarinet displeases me along the same axis that the SSW clarinet displeases me. The BBCSO clarinet is not as far down that axis, however, and so displeases me less. I imagine that I would be able to write many more passages for it that I consider passable, but I don't see myself ever loving it. It will be rather like the flutes in SSW, which I also don't love but can almost always make tolerable.


I still use VSL clarinet all the time


----------



## prodigalson

dcoscina said:


> I still use VSL clarinet all the time



Absolutely adore the VSL Winds. The clarinet especially is a gem. Currently not in my template though so sometimes it doesn't feel worth all the work to get them situated and blended etc etc etc.


----------



## MarcHedenberg

While the strings in VSL haven't aged that well, I find myself using the woodwinds and percussion in there a lot.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Really liking the BBCSO winds, personally. Especially flute and piccolo, though.


----------



## Jett Hitt

@paulthomson posted a really interesting video today about an experiment with the BBC that he is working on during lockdown. As entertaining as the end result of this project might be, the interesting part is what this suggests about the future. If BBCSO had simply been a one-off with a few maintenance updates in the future, would Paul still have this kind of access to the BBC? He literally has these professional players from one of the world's great orchestras sitting at home making recordings on their phones. Sure, I suppose that he could be paying them, but that seems unlikely. It suggests to me that they are still collaborating. Perhaps there is more to come? (Please, please let it be a Pro edition.) This might just be wishful thinking, but one can hope.


----------



## dcoscina

Jett Hitt said:


> @paulthomson posted a really interesting video today about an experiment with the BBC that he is working on during lockdown. As entertaining as the end result of this project might be, the interesting part is what this suggests about the future. If BBCSO had simply been a one-off with a few maintenance updates in the future, would Paul still have this kind of access to the BBC? He literally has these professional players from one of the world's great orchestras sitting at home making recordings on their phones. Sure, I suppose that he could be paying them, but that seems unlikely. It suggests to me that they are still collaborating. Perhaps there is more to come? (Please, please let it be a Pro edition.) This might just be wishful thinking, but one can hope.



Staffpad is great isn't it? I use SF Symphonic Strings in it and it's amazing.


----------



## José Herring

prodigalson said:


> It just seemed a but unwieldy, certain legato transitions too loud, some phasing, hard to get it to sit right. Here's the first half of the same piece with the BBCSO clarinet. On coming back to it it actually doesn't sound quite as bad as I remember in the heat of battle. Still prefer the expression and playability of the IW though...also it seems to just sit further back in the soundstage more somehow.
> 
> The first mp3 attached is the BBCSO Clarinet. The second is the IW.
> 
> EDIT: Just realized why these mp3s were bouncing much harsher and louder than my mix and it was because somehow I had accidentally turned Normalize on  The mp3s now attached are corrected.


They both sound fine, just different.


----------



## korgscrew2000

Hi, I'm Paul Thompson and I'm proud to announce the BBC Symphonic Orchestra part 2 - COVID.

Recorded in the finest living rooms across London through vintage microphones such as the iPhone 6 and galaxy s5, we have some amazing articulations never before heard in the orchestral era.

We have some amazing release samples such as baby crying in the background and random dog barking with over 40 round robins.


----------



## redlester

Jett Hitt said:


> @paulthomson posted a really interesting video today about an experiment with the BBC that he is working on during lockdown. As entertaining as the end result of this project might be, the interesting part is what this suggests about the future. If BBCSO had simply been a one-off with a few maintenance updates in the future, would Paul still have this kind of access to the BBC? He literally has these professional players from one of the world's great orchestras sitting at home making recordings on their phones. Sure, I suppose that he could be paying them, but that seems unlikely. It suggests to me that they are still collaborating. Perhaps there is more to come? (Please, please let it be a Pro edition.) This might just be wishful thinking, but one can hope.




Christian also mentioned in one of his recent videos that he's been working on a major new project with the BBC SO (the orchestra, not the library). Also they keep posting the occasional video by members of the orchestra talking about their specific roles and instruments. So they clearly have maintained a very close relationship.


----------



## CT

Here's a weird thing I did tonight with mostly BBCSO (plus Eric Whitacre Choir/a couple synths)... and for some reason a snippet of Arvo Pärt speaking.


----------



## gussunkri

miket said:


> Here's a weird thing I did tonight with mostly BBCSO (plus Eric Whitacre Choir/a couple synths)... and for some reason a snippet of Arvo Pärt speaking.



Nice, relaxing.


----------



## becolossal

miket said:


> Here's a weird thing I did tonight with mostly BBCSO (plus Eric Whitacre Choir/a couple synths)... and for some reason a snippet of Arvo Pärt speaking.



Lovely stuff, Miket!!


----------



## Cormast

Hi !

Anyone using stereo mics positions ?

I love their tones, but I wonder how to use them in a track without messing up all the panning of the orchestra. I will probably choose to make them mono but I'm wondering if it could create some frequencies problems ?

I guess I must check by myself, but just asking in case someone has experimented them before 

Best


----------



## Karma

Cormast said:


> Hi !
> 
> Anyone using stereo mics positions ?
> 
> I love their tones, but I wonder how to use them in a track without messing up all the panning of the orchestra. I will probably choose to make them mono but I'm wondering if it could create some frequencies problems ?
> 
> I guess I must check by myself, but just asking in case someone has experimented them before
> 
> Best


Yes! I prefer these on Woodwinds in particular instead of Close, really nice if you want to bring out a phrase.


----------



## Pando

miket said:


> Here's a weird thing I did tonight with mostly BBCSO (plus Eric Whitacre Choir/a couple synths)... and for some reason a snippet of Arvo Pärt speaking.




Thanks Mike, that was interesting, since I can actually understand what he's talking about ("concentrating on every sound like tiny blades of grass")


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

I've been working on putting together a Bernard Herrmann suite and for this excerpt I've only used BBCSO strings


----------



## bfreepro

They use the “London Calling” tagline previously reserved for the BBCSO, yet the instrument section colors hint at their Spitfire Symphony Orchestra (strings GUI was green, woods blue, brass red, and percs a grayish/gold...) 

hmmmmmm


----------



## yiph2

Didn't get that email...


----------



## ridgero

Not yet


----------



## yiph2

bfreepro said:


> They use the “London Calling” tagline previously reserved for the BBCSO, yet the instrument section colors hint at their Spitfire Symphony Orchestra (strings GUI was green, woods blue, brass red, and percs a grayish/gold...)
> 
> hmmmmmm


London Symphony Orchestra


----------



## ridgero

bfreepro said:


> They use the “London Calling” tagline previously reserved for the BBCSO, yet the instrument section colors hint at their Spitfire Symphony Orchestra (strings GUI was green, woods blue, brass red, and percs a grayish/gold...)
> 
> hmmmmmm



Likewise in BBCSO


----------



## bfreepro

ridgero said:


> Likewise in BBCSO


Damn you’re right, didn’t put that together since the color shift is so subtle with the black bbc interface!


----------



## bfreepro

Next up, a massive contrabassoon/tuba ensemble: "This is London Sharting"


----------



## redlester

bfreepro said:


> They use the “London Calling” tagline previously reserved for the BBCSO, yet the instrument section colors hint at their Spitfire Symphony Orchestra (strings GUI was green, woods blue, brass red, and percs a grayish/gold...)
> 
> hmmmmmm



It's there for all to see. "View in browser". They've ditched both Kontakt and their GUI, its a library that runs in an internet browser!


----------



## gst98

What is the state of the maida vale right now? I thought the point of BBCSO was to capture it before it closed down. If so, would that mean re-recording is out of the question?


----------



## KallumS

redlester said:


> It's there for all to see. "View in browser". They've ditched both Kontakt and their GUI, its a library that runs in an internet browser!



Thast would actually be really cool if it were to exist.


----------



## muk

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I've been working on putting together a Bernard Herrmann suite and for this excerpt I've only used BBCSO strings



Admire your work Mattia. This one, however, does not work quite as well as your other offerings with BBC SO in my opinion. The transitions sound weird and unconvincing. And the library lacks the grit, attacks, and dynamics that this music calls for. There should be tension and thinly veiled madness in this music. Yet to my ears Spitfire BBC SO manages only a slightly cosy and harmless 'middle of the road' performance.

Knowing how good you are at programming mockups, I am certain that it is entirely down to the library. BBC SO is simply not up to the kind of task you have put before it here. Not too surprising maybe, given the limited amount of dynamic layers and attacks. And the transitions show a certain inclination to troublesome behaviour as well, if I am not mistaken. But a bit disappointing nontheless. My interest in the library had been renewed as of late, mainly due to the transparent sound signature. These samples were very well recorded if you ask me. Here, the apparent shortcomings of the library bug me again though.


----------



## vdk-john




----------



## yiph2

It's definetly related to BBCSO


----------



## CT

I do hope it's not just a "lite" version or something like that. Although that's fairly selfish of me.


----------



## dzilizzi

yiph2 said:


> It's definetly related to BBCSO



Selling sections? As in, I only want the winds?


----------



## SZK-Max

BBCSO Percussion used color is yellow.
So I think there is a high possibility that they are related.


----------



## RogiervG

BBCSO 2, the fixed edition (Fixed the brass and player).

Or
BBCSO PRO (also fixed brass. Added: Choir with wordbuilding in true legato, piano, additional woodwind and brass instruments, more percussion.. All instruments in this library have even more articulations to choose from. Added 20 extra mic positions and mic types to choose and mix)

Now intro price of 700 (normal price 999, BBCSO will be discontinued and being replaced by BBCSO 2 / pro)

That would be an expected deal, considering the bugs and mediocre brass patches in BBCSO as it is now.
(and still no promised piano to be seen.. )


----------



## AlainTH

stay calm


----------



## dcoscina

Only 5 more days and we will know!


----------



## Fleer

Sure hope it’s BBCSO related.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Fleer said:


> Sure hope it’s BBCSO related.


I mean surely. . . "This is London calling" . . . it's got to be.


----------



## Gingerbread

If it's a paid expansion to BBCSO, wouldn't that ruin the concept of a universal library? Not everyone would have the expansion pack, so how could they collaborate?


----------



## Gingerbread

Personally, I'm hoping it's 80 more mic positions.


----------



## redlester

Gingerbread said:


> If it's a paid expansion to BBCSO, wouldn't that ruin the concept of a universal library? Not everyone would have the expansion pack, so how could they collaborate?



What if it's a free expansion?


----------



## Michael Antrum

redlester said:


> What if it's a free expansion?



That would be a gamechanger ,,,,,


----------



## Bluemount Score

redlester said:


> What if it's a free expansion?


Probably not worth the advertising effort


----------



## Brasart

Bluemount Score said:


> Probably not worth the advertising effort



Why not?
The video games industry does this all the time; BBCSO seems to have sold quite a lot, would make sense to create noise around a new big free expansion to convince people that were on the fence before and new buyers to give in.

And it's not like they rented a Super Bowl ad time, it's just a twitter picture and an email for now, the rest is VI doing its thing.


----------



## Fleer

Same thinking here. BBCSO will enjoy a second wave of popularity when it’s enhanced for free.


----------



## gtrwll

I should probably share this here as well, as it has mostly BBCSO in it...

”Jewel of the Desert" was written with especially JRPG's in mind. You know, the quintessential desert location that has the middle east-vibes and whatnot. I'm quite content with the outcome, given that it's been half a year since I last composed anything orchestral. That being said, I'll gladly take all suggestions for improvements considering e.g. the orchestration and mixing (which I didn't really do much besides minor EQ adjustments and slight bus comp and limiter on the master).

I also wanted to test out the Spitfire BBCSO since it has been updated since I last composed with it, and it seems loading times have improved quite much, or at least it felt that way. I added some bite from Hollywood Brass horns, but other than that and the piano (The Grandeur), it's all BBCSO.


----------



## Brasart

gtrwll said:


> I should probably share this here as well, as it has mostly BBCSO in it...
> 
> ”Jewel of the Desert" was written with especially JRPG's in mind. You know, the quintessential desert location that has the middle east-vibes and whatnot. I'm quite content with the outcome, given that it's been half a year since I last composed anything orchestral. That being said, I'll gladly take all suggestions for improvements considering e.g. the orchestration and mixing (which I didn't really do much besides minor EQ adjustments and slight bus comp and limiter on the master).
> 
> I also wanted to test out the Spitfire BBCSO since it has been updated since I last composed with it, and it seems loading times have improved quite much, or at least it felt that way. I added some bite from Hollywood Brass horns, but other than that and the piano (The Grandeur), it's all BBCSO.




Sounds fantastic, love how "full" pieces with BBCSO end up sounding like.
Not much to comment on, I find the piano to be a bit too forward and dry when it comes at the front of the track, but then again it works super well at 1:24; I think you can even bring down the orchestra quite a bit at that moment, JRPGs tracks are not afraid to have big dynamic shifts when an emotional line comes in, and it might make bringing back the orchestra when it starts rising up again even more powerful !


----------



## gtrwll

Thanks! Yeah, the sound of the library is awesome. I’ll have to look into the thing you mentioned about bringing the orchestra down at that point, cheers for that!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Brasart said:


> Why not?
> The video games industry does this all the time; BBCSO seems to have sold quite a lot, would make sense to create noise around a new big free expansion to convince people that were on the fence before and new buyers to give in.
> 
> And it's not like they rented a Super Bowl ad time, it's just a twitter picture and an email for now, the rest is VI doing its thing.


We'll see. It's not like I wouldn't welcome a free expansion


----------



## Fleer

Those three tiers are quite the shiznit. Delighted to use the Pro version in the studio, explore the Core version on a laptop and play with the Discover version on a netbook.


----------



## Brasart

Fleer said:


> Those three tiers are quite the shiznit. Delighted to use the Pro version in the studio, explore the Core version on a laptop and play with the Discover version on a netbook.



Indeed, I haven't downloaded Core onto my laptop yet but it will replace (or complement) my go-to Albion One template in there, I'm actually excited for the next time I get to travel by train or something so I can make some music with Core


----------



## Fleer

The only thing seems to be that you have to "Optimise" or "Repair" when you switch between computers. Unless I'm doing something wrong, of course.


----------



## John R Wilson

Fleer said:


> The only thing seems to be that you have to "Optimise" or "Repair" when you switch between computers. Unless I'm doing something wrong, of course.



You shouldn't have to optimise or repair each time you switch computers. Have you got pro installed on your main computer and done a separate install of core/discover on the second computer?


----------



## Fleer

John R Wilson said:


> You shouldn't have to optimise or repair each time you switch computers. Have you got pro installed on your main computer and done a separate install of core/discover on the second computer?


I first installed Discover on a 12” MacBook, followed by Core on a 15” MacBook Pro, then asking me to optimise, which I did, but the “Optimise” button keeps coming back on. Pro isn’t installed (for now) until I get my new main rig.


----------



## Zero&One

Fleer said:


> then asking me to optimise, which I did, but the “Optimise” button keeps coming back on.



I get that all the time. Also with EW Choir, I just ignore it. Log back in and its gone :/


----------



## Brasart

Zero&One said:


> I get that all the time. Also with EW Choir, I just ignore it. Log back in and its gone :/



Yep no need to optimise multiple times on the same computer, it did the same thing to me with BBCSO, it's a visual bug that comes and goes


----------



## Fleer

Brasart said:


> Yep no need to optimise multiple times on the same computer, it did the same thing to me with BBCSO, it's a visual bug that comes and goes


Yep, gone here too. Thanks, guys.


----------



## AndyP

After I had the problem with my selfmade user patches (articulations were doubled) I rebuilt all user patches completely.

Keyswitches customised, keyswitches moved up 1 to 2 octaves, partly the playable zone moved up + - octaves.

Now the problem did not occur again with the new user patches.

I saved the old user patches and the new one is exactly the same. With the old ones the problem occurs. 

That's when a horse in the corral goes crazy.

Anyway, the new patches work, although it irritates me a bit. I hope they stay that way now.

It better not be any different tomorrow ... the order to erase it is within reach ... (rm -r) 🚮


----------



## Fleer

The Spitfire app just got updated to v3.2.6


----------



## Jett Hitt

Fleer said:


> The Spitfire app just got updated to v3.2.6


I don't follow. What app?


----------



## dzilizzi

Jett Hitt said:


> I don't follow. What app?


The Spitfire app that does the downloads I think?


----------



## Jett Hitt

dzilizzi said:


> The Spitfire app that does the downloads I think?


Oh yeah, you're right!


----------



## CT

...in which I pretend it is 30 years ago, to see how BBCSO cooperates.


----------



## Karma

I posted this elsewhere a few days ago, and had the thought that a few others here may be interested as well. On the subject of Spill mics and what difference they can make, here's a snippet of my demo both with the Spill and without. No reverb of course for the sake of this example:

*With* Spill: https://www.dropbox.com/s/el7cno87wrfpo1l/MBF_Spill_Dry.wav?dl=0
*Without* Spill: https://www.dropbox.com/s/safd46vu48ehnls/MBF_NoSpill_Dry.wav?dl=0

For me there's a distinguishable difference. It adds a fair bit of natural masking, more space, and is overall just less 'pointy'.


----------



## dzilizzi

Karma said:


> I posted this elsewhere a few days ago, and had the thought that a few others here may be interested as well. On the subject of Spill mics and what difference they can make, here's a snippet of my demo both with the Spill and without. No reverb of course for the sake of this example:
> 
> *With* Spill: https://www.dropbox.com/s/el7cno87wrfpo1l/MBF_Spill_Dry.wav?dl=0
> *Without* Spill: https://www.dropbox.com/s/safd46vu48ehnls/MBF_NoSpill_Dry.wav?dl=0
> 
> For me there's a distinguishable difference. It adds a fair bit of natural masking, more space, and is overall just less 'pointy'.


Yes. Without the spill mics, it sounds good. But with the spills, it sounds much more realistic. It definitely adds space better than a reverb would. 

Sigh. Still on my list....


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

For those who have the BBCSO Pro version, I was wondering if you can Choose the Core version to begin a project, then switch to the Pro version, to add additional instruments from Pro, and/or refine it further using more mics positions ? Instead of beginning a project using the Pro version. 

Since Core is much smaller in memory footprint, I thought this would be a good strategy. Start with Core, then switch to Pro. I'm still trying to decide if I should buy the Pro version before May 31st. 

Some feedback on this would be appreciated.

Thanks.


----------



## Fleer

Good point indeed, as this is how I’d see it too. Will try to check this out before your time’s up.


----------



## muziksculp

Fleer said:


> Good point indeed, as this is how I’d see it too. Will try to check this out before your time’s up.



Thanks. Appreciate it.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Karma said:


> I posted this elsewhere a few days ago, and had the thought that a few others here may be interested as well. On the subject of Spill mics and what difference they can make, here's a snippet of my demo both with the Spill and without. No reverb of course for the sake of this example:
> 
> *With* Spill: https://www.dropbox.com/s/el7cno87wrfpo1l/MBF_Spill_Dry.wav?dl=0
> *Without* Spill: https://www.dropbox.com/s/safd46vu48ehnls/MBF_NoSpill_Dry.wav?dl=0
> 
> For me there's a distinguishable difference. It adds a fair bit of natural masking, more space, and is overall just less 'pointy'.


I agree. There is an audible difference. At what level did you set the spill mics?


----------



## jaketanner

With BBC being reduced, I wonder how long before it really gets reduced down to individual sections. For instance, if the winds sound great, but I have no use for the other instruments, I'd never buy the whole thing...but would buy the winds. I think they are missing out on a huge market here...they'd be the only developer to offer an all in one GUI and also modular. 

I am on the fence about the strings in BBC...they sound inconsistent in Discover, and would hate to run into the same issue I have with SCS where I don't use it ever.


----------



## Karma

Jett Hitt said:


> I agree. There is an audible difference. At what level did you set the spill mics?


It varies! I don't think I go above -8dB on any though.


----------



## muk

jaketanner said:


> I am on the fence about the strings in BBC...they sound inconsistent in Discover, and would hate to run into the same issue I have with SCS where I don't use it ever.



For me, so far they have been a positive surprise. I was not sure from the demos I have heard and the walkthrough. I haven't tested them extensively yet. The first playthrough and short mockup I did with them was very encouraging though. I also have Spitfire Chamber Strings and use them very rarely. The SCS longs have a nasal quality that I don't like.

Here is my very first test run with the BBCSO strings. There is also a version of the piece I made with SCS. The difference is stark, I much prefer BBCSO:






Comparison between a few strings libraries - including BBC SO


Hi everyone, Having bought BBC SO I wanted to compare it with some other libraries I have. This the first few bars of Schubert's song 'Du bist die Ruh' that I orchestrated. It's the very first short mockup I made with BBC SO. I'm still making myself familiar with the library and setting up a...




vi-control.net


----------



## Bluemount Score

Karma said:


> I posted this elsewhere a few days ago, and had the thought that a few others here may be interested as well. On the subject of Spill mics and what difference they can make, here's a snippet of my demo both with the Spill and without. No reverb of course for the sake of this example:
> 
> *With* Spill: https://www.dropbox.com/s/el7cno87wrfpo1l/MBF_Spill_Dry.wav?dl=0
> *Without* Spill: https://www.dropbox.com/s/safd46vu48ehnls/MBF_NoSpill_Dry.wav?dl=0
> 
> For me there's a distinguishable difference. It adds a fair bit of natural masking, more space, and is overall just less 'pointy'.


Pretty cool, it all kinda blends better together in a believable space and I'm trying to avoid placebo at all costs


----------



## Moody Waters

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Is it just me or are the strings out of tune?


In fact they might be. I just finished adding solo cello to an acoustic guitar / singer track for a friend and I found a couple of the notes to be sharp. Maybe. I'm going to swap out with EWQLSO solo cello and see if it's the BBCSO 1st cello or my buddy's punk/grunge garage band guitarist who's out.


----------



## redlester

For anyone with the often asked question about BBC SO Pro with just 16GB RAM, I decided to have a go at the opening Promenade from Pictures at an Exhibition. 51 instances of Pro and although it was starting to grumble it coped! I was rather pleased with this. Technical details etc. in the video description.


----------



## Fleer

Congrats Bruce, absolutely lovely.


----------



## redlester

Updated link to new video in the post above - the original had something wrong with the audio which made it sound like there was a weird vibrato all over it. Corrected now.


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> Updated link to new video in the post above - the original had something wrong with the audio which made it sound like there was a weird vibrato all over it. Corrected now.


Yeah, I wasn’t going to say but I thought maybe you’d got a special version:

BBCSO Bladdered edition. 🍻


----------



## Fleer

Sweet on its own 🍻


----------



## ahorsewhocandrive

Karma said:


> I posted this elsewhere a few days ago, and had the thought that a few others here may be interested as well. On the subject of Spill mics and what difference they can make, here's a snippet of my demo both with the Spill and without. No reverb of course for the sake of this example:
> 
> *With* Spill: https://www.dropbox.com/s/el7cno87wrfpo1l/MBF_Spill_Dry.wav?dl=0
> *Without* Spill: https://www.dropbox.com/s/safd46vu48ehnls/MBF_NoSpill_Dry.wav?dl=0
> 
> For me there's a distinguishable difference. It adds a fair bit of natural masking, more space, and is overall just less 'pointy'.


wow great demo, this is a remarkable feature, can i ask what process you used to add these spill mics? i just did a project with 150 articulations and felt any mic adjustments were out of the realm of practicality to do one by one. is there a batch function maybe ?


----------



## Brasart

Just a heads up, 1.1.9 update for BBCSO is out


----------



## Laptoprabbit

Brasart said:


> Just a heads up, 1.1.9 update for BBCSO is out


"Fixed failing notes when note on and note off perfectly coincide"
Absolutely essential fix


----------



## jaketanner

Moody Waters said:


> In fact they might be. I just finished adding solo cello to an acoustic guitar / singer track for a friend and I found a couple of the notes to be sharp. Maybe. I'm going to swap out with EWQLSO solo cello and see if it's the BBCSO 1st cello or my buddy's punk/grunge garage band guitarist who's out.


I am betting it's SFA. They're sample string libraries are consistently out of tune.


----------



## Fleer

Brasart said:


> Just a heads up, 1.1.9 update for BBCSO is out


Core gets vibraphone and crotales. Nice.


----------



## jaketanner

Karma said:


> No reverb of course for the sake of this example


Honestly, you don't need the reverb with the spill mics...it's totally unnecessary. If you use the BBCSO as a whole library without adding third party libraries, the spill mics should be enough to place them in the space. Adding an additional reverb at that point doesn't sound like it would really add anything. 

I have a love hate relationship with BBCSO. I don't have it, but I go back and forth. Every time I hear a great demo like yours, I think that I can make it work...and the overall sound is great. Then when I try my other SFA libraries and I hit issues like tuning, and just not great playability and legato...I think it's not a good idea to invest in the BBC...at least not until they have resolved all bugs and it's a very solid library.


----------



## jbuhler

jaketanner said:


> I have a love hate relationship with BBCSO. I don't have it, but I go back and forth. Every time I hear a great demo like yours, I think that I can make it work...and the overall sound is great. Then when I try my other SFA libraries and I hit issues like tuning, and just not great playability and legato...I think it's not a good idea to invest in the BBC...at least not until they have resolved all bugs and it's a very solid library.


Honestly, I think SF libraries just don't suit you. You want them to be something that they will never be. I doubt anything SF produces will ever be more solid than SCS, and you already know you don't like it. If they haven't ironed the bugs out of that one to the point that you can make use of it, what are the chances that will happen with any SF library? 

Personally, I like the SF libraries, I find them sufficiently playable for my purposes, and I like their approach to legato over other developers' legatos that many find better. That's all fine. There are so many good options available now that we can focus on libraries that best fit our music and workflow and ignore libraries that make compromises in places that we don't want to deal with.


----------



## merty

jaketanner said:


> I have a love hate relationship with BBCSO. I don't have it, but I go back and forth. Every time I hear a great demo like yours, I think that I can make it work...and the overall sound is great.



I had a similar thought today but different reasoning than yours, after listening to many examples I came to the conclusion this library has its own whim's. This video released today also to me confirms it (as to why it sounds so good here);



Alone, unless the user makes really good use of mic. option it can sound "computery" pretty quick as an arrangement/orchestration gets more and more thicker (in video its kept light). But if such arrangement with this library is necessary then mixing skills are definitely needed.

This doesn't seem to happen as much on the Spitfire Symphony orchestra bundle cause there is more noticeable reverb going on even with the close mic.s. So the BBC is more versatile in some ways but one has to put more work into the mic. selection or mixing stage.


----------



## jaketanner

merty said:


> one has to put more work into the mic. selection


This is true in all mixing aspects.  That's why core is not going to sound as good as pro...with one mic, things can get messy very quick.


----------



## jaketanner

jbuhler said:


> If they haven't ironed the bugs out of that one to the point that you can make use of it, what are the chances that will happen with any SF library


But why does it have to come to that? I mean it's not like I am a SF hater...I am disappointed in the libraries because they COULD have been better..it's not like they put their best foot forward. I have their pro Studio series also...and the strings are great. Winds are so-so, but that's because of the room...and the brass is really thin, and has a bug that some mics don't even work in the default patches...and their tech support couldn't figure it out. And really, what would it take for them to go back and tune some notes or address the bugs that are reported? Ever since they upgraded the solo string library, my "performance" solos (violoncello), default to full on vibrato...every time. So I need to uncheck the TM for those...it worked fine before the update. This is what I'm talking about. And while all developers have issues...seems that because they put out so many products so fast, I think they rush through them at times. 

Overall, I do like SFA. I think Albion one is great, and I use it generally with no regrets or issues. They DO know what they're doing...but I think they just rush certain products out without fully testing them.


----------



## jbuhler

jaketanner said:


> But why does it have to come to that? I mean it's not like I am a SF hater...I am disappointed in the libraries because they COULD have been better..it's not like they put their best foot forward. I have their pro Studio series also...and the strings are great. Winds are so-so, but that's because of the room...and the brass is really thin, and has a bug that some mics don't even work in the default patches...and their tech support couldn't figure it out. And really, what would it take for them to go back and tune some notes or address the bugs that are reported? Ever since they upgraded the solo string library, my "performance" solos (violoncello), default to full on vibrato...every time. So I need to uncheck the TM for those...it worked fine before the update. This is what I'm talking about. And while all developers have issues...seems that because they put out so many products so fast, I think they rush through them at times.
> 
> Overall, I do like SFA. I think Albion one is great, and I use it generally with no regrets or issues. They DO know what they're doing...but I think they just rush certain products out without fully testing them.


Pretty much every library I have could have been better. But some of "better"—maybe even most of "better"—involves differences in taste and use, as even some of the dodgy notes in SCS that you complain about, to me add a bit of spice in the context of the whole. In any case, because SCS has so many alternatives, you can usually get around these issues in SCS by using a different patch. Then too one choice companies have to make is when to release. Would you prefer a functional library now or a greatly improved but also more expensive one 18 months to 2 years from now? 

With the total performance patches in Solo Strings, did you save a new instrument with TM turned off and vibrato set to where you want it?


----------



## CT

The real question when someone mentions shortcomings in libraries is... are there any examples of people obviously bypassing those shortcomings to do incredible stuff with them? Almost always the answer is yes. There are VERY few VIs out there that can be dismissed purely on account of their weak points.

I think people here are at risk of getting totally paralyzed by choice/blemishes present in every option out there, at the rate this stuff tends to gets overthought.


----------



## jaketanner

jbuhler said:


> With the total performance patches in Solo Strings, did you save a new instrument with TM turned off and vibrato set to where you want it?


I didn't, because I really don't use it that often. And for me, I'd rather have a library that's fully functional...I think we can all wait since there are many options to get us by in the meantime, that rushing to get something out might have been a good method back when...but not in today's market when there are tons of options. 

I suppose there are work arounds for SCS. I don't use it often, not just because of the dodgy notes, but because the sound doesn't suit my needs all the time. I have it in the case where I might need it, but since it came out, so many other libraries took precedence. Now if that's all I had, yes of course, it would get used and all its work arounds.

I also suppose it comes down to how much you use the library, and what its role is. If you also write in certain keys that don't run into the tuning issues, then alls good. So I do realize that it's going to be good for some and not great for others based off the composition. I do keep trying though...  I WANT to use it...and one day it will fit perfectly.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Mike T said:


> The real question when someone mentions shortcomings in libraries is... are there any examples of people obviously bypassing those shortcomings to do incredible stuff with them? Almost always the answer is yes. There are VERY few VIs out there that can be dismissed purely on account of their weak points.
> 
> I think people here are at risk of getting totally paralyzed by choice/blemishes present in every option out there, at the rate this stuff tends to gets overthought.


Whilst I feel dirty blowing smoke up your behind once again, these are true words.
<yoda>Listen to Mike T, you must.</yoda>

Honestly, I thinks it's part deflection. Faced with a new library capable of making some nice music, it's easier to find some flaws from the get-go and let one's self off the hook in advance.


----------



## jaketanner

Alex Fraser said:


> Honestly, I thinks it's part deflection


For me it's more than that...sometimes I don't really feel I should be bothered to fix what the developer could have fixed. But I know there are people that work around them...just not feeling it..LOL But again, if it were my only library, sure I would spend time with workarounds...but not when there are many to choose from. I guess I am a minority with this line of thinking.


----------



## EasterIslandStatue

Brasart said:


> Just a heads up, 1.1.9 update for BBCSO is out


Has anyone managed to get the Vibraphone and Crotales actually playing? Just installed the update, and when I'm within the BBSO app in Core and switching around instruments, I can hear everything perfectly fine - then when I switch to either Vibraphone or Crotales, my DAW is registering the hits but I'm getting absolutely no sound from either instrument...


----------



## Zedcars

EasterIslandStatue said:


> Has anyone managed to get the Vibraphone and Crotales actually playing? Just installed the update, and when I'm within the BBSO app in Core and switching around instruments, I can hear everything perfectly fine - then when I switch to either Vibraphone or Crotales, my DAW is registering the hits but I'm getting absolutely no sound from either instrument...


Both work fine here in Core. Don't forget the Crotales playing range is in the upper octave (C6-C8, where C4=Middle C). But the Vibraphone is more in the middle, so I'm guessing that's not the issue.

Have you tried adjusting the Expression and Dynamics faders in the plugin?


----------



## EasterIslandStatue

Zedcars said:


> Both work fine here in Core. Don't forget the Crotales playing range is in the upper octave (C6-C8, where C4=Middle C). But the Vibraphone is more in the middle, so I'm guessing that's not the issue.
> 
> Have you tried adjusting the Expression and Dynamics faders in the plugin?



Yep I've got an 88-key and the app is showing I'm pressing the keys in the correct playing ranges + have tried fiddling with the faders but still no joy (also LED indicated both instruments were fully loaded).

Going to try again this evening, if no luck will have to shoot another email to support.


----------



## Zedcars

EasterIslandStatue said:


> Yep I've got an 88-key and the app is showing I'm pressing the keys in the correct playing ranges + have tried fiddling with the faders but still no joy (also LED indicated both instruments were fully loaded).
> 
> Going to try again this evening, if no luck will have to shoot another email to support.


The other thing you could do is check in the BBCSO installation/library folder to make sure the Crotales and Vibraphone are in the same folder as the other instruments. I’m wondering if they got installed in the wrong location. Also open the Spitfire App again and make sure you didn’t miss any BBCSO updates.


----------



## Zedcars

I will say I had something very similar happen to me when I first installed the library (Pro) last year. But in my case no sound came from any of the instruments even though it was all reacting visually to my playing. Support had to mess around in my computer via remote login for ages to sort it out. It may or may not be related to your problem.


----------



## Mucusman

EasterIslandStatue said:


> Has anyone managed to get the Vibraphone and Crotales actually playing? Just installed the update, and when I'm within the BBSO app in Core and switching around instruments, I can hear everything perfectly fine - then when I switch to either Vibraphone or Crotales, my DAW is registering the hits but I'm getting absolutely no sound from either instrument...



Same here. On my Windows machine, I see it created a new v.1.1.9 directory in the Patches directory, into which both instruments were placed (everything else is in the already existing v.1.1.8 directory). Even did a Repair in the Spitfire App, but still no luck getting any sound from either of these two instruments.

Thankfully what IS working is being able to create (and save) single articulation patches in Core.


----------



## John R Wilson

Update gone wrong for me. Had to send a support request as it made the spic articulations weird. Then I checked folders and found that nothing was showing for 1.1.9 but the plugin was reporting it was updated. Now nothing will load and I've got the Error#3 message coming up :(


----------



## EasterIslandStatue

Zedcars said:


> The other thing you could do is check in the BBCSO installation/library folder to make sure the Crotales and Vibraphone are in the same folder as the other instruments. I’m wondering if they got installed in the wrong location. Also open the Spitfire App again and make sure you didn’t miss any BBCSO updates.



Like with Mucusman, the 1.1.9 patch was placed in a new directory, separate from 1.1.8 folder, even attempted to replace the 3 files for Crotales and Vibraphone into the 1.1.8 directory but (unsurprisingly) didn't make any difference. Have reverted and currently waiting to hear back from support.


----------



## Karma

ahorsewhocandrive said:


> wow great demo, this is a remarkable feature, can i ask what process you used to add these spill mics? i just did a project with 150 articulations and felt any mic adjustments were out of the realm of practicality to do one by one. is there a batch function maybe ?


Thanks. I can't say I really used a process as such, kinda just went for what I think sounded good and worked from there. They're definitely fun to experiment with!



jaketanner said:


> Honestly, you don't need the reverb with the spill mics...it's totally unnecessary.


I think it depends somewhat. A few people refuse to put any verb on the SSO too, but I would personally use some verb on both.


----------



## dzilizzi

Karma said:


> I think it depends somewhat. A few people refuse to put any verb on the SSO too, but I would personally use some verb on both.


When you say "some", you aren't talking Blackhole level, right?  

It is my favorite....


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> When you say "some", you aren't talking Blackhole level, right?
> 
> It is my favorite....


Yeah, Blackhole doesn’t _suck_ at all...


----------



## Fleer

You guys sure don’t know Adaptiverb


----------



## dzilizzi

Fleer said:


> You guys sure don’t know Adaptiverb


I have to figure that one out. It gets a little too distorted for me.


----------



## Fleer

Meanwhile, there’s that free SuperMassive from Valhalla


----------



## redlester

Off topic from BBC but regarding lush reverbs, I almost spat my beer out when Christian said on The Probe Q&A that he's given away his Strymon Big Sky. He said "you hear it on everything" well maybe, but there is a reason for that - it sounds gorgeous! 

I've been going through all my reverb plugins attempting to find something that can approach it for those ultra-long synth reverbs which it so excels at. Blackhole is the closest for me, with just a slight tweak of the default patch.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

redlester said:


> Off topic from BBC but regarding lush reverbs, I almost spat my beer out when Christian said on The Probe Q&A that he's given away his Strymon Big Sky. He said "you hear it on everything" well maybe, but there is a reason for that - it sounds gorgeous!
> 
> I've been going through all my reverb plugins attempting to find something that can approach it for those ultra-long synth reverbs which it so excels at. Blackhole is the closest for me, with just a slight tweak of the default patch.



Have you tried Valhalla Supermassive? It’s perfect for that sound.....and it’s free.


----------



## redlester

Wolfie2112 said:


> Have you tried Valhalla Supermassive? It’s perfect for that sound.....and it’s free.



I have it, yes. It's lovely. But I spent half a day doing comparisons recently and (to my ears) Blackhole is the nearest in tone to the Big Sky. Not to say others aren't great, am just talking about that specific comparison.


----------



## dzilizzi

redlester said:


> I have it, yes. It's lovely. But I spent half a day doing comparisons recently and (to my ears) Blackhole is the nearest in tone to the Big Sky. Not to say others aren't great, am just talking about that specific comparison.


Blackhole does actually have some nice room reverbs that aren't supermassive yet give that huge empty stone church vibe without the distorting delays.


----------



## Mucusman

EasterIslandStatue said:


> Has anyone managed to get the Vibraphone and Crotales actually playing? Just installed the update, and when I'm within the BBSO app in Core and switching around instruments, I can hear everything perfectly fine - then when I switch to either Vibraphone or Crotales, my DAW is registering the hits but I'm getting absolutely no sound from either instrument...



I answered this already on another thread, but in case anyone having this problem missed that, this problem with the Core edition has been solved with the latest update. Run the Spitfire (Update/Install) App and download/install the latest update for Core.


----------



## prodigalson

Anyone using Christian's Logic template for BBCSO getting insane latency? Without any plugins enabled a buffer of 256 feels like 1024. Its unplayable without engaging low latency mode? I don't get the same latency in any other projects. Is it to do with the sheer amount and complexity of the routing?


----------



## Rory

Mucusman said:


> I answered this already on another thread, but in case anyone having this problem missed that, this problem with the Core edition has been solved with the latest update. Run the Spitfire (Update/Install) App and download/install the latest update for Core.



Well I _have_ the latest update (1.1.9rc2) and the plugin is not showing Crotales or Vibraphone, although both are in my BBC library.


----------



## Mucusman

Rory said:


> Well I _have_ the latest update (1.1.9rc2) and the plugin is not showing Crotales or Vibraphone, although both are in my BBC library.



It didn’t work until I updated to 1.1.9rc3.


----------



## Rory

Mucusman said:


> It didn’t work until I updated to 1.1.9rc3.



Sorry, that was a typo. I'm also on 1.1.9rc3. It also says (lower left corner) that I'm on Discover 1.1.8 and Plugin 1.1.9. I'm not being prompted for a further update. Do you show anything different?


----------



## dcoscina

I'm finding the latest Core update to have improved the legato on the woodwinds in particular. The oboes are actually quite lovely now.


----------



## Will Wilson

1.1.9 is a car crash for me.

Upgraded and didn't think anything of it. Then yesterday morning decided I would take the plunge with Catalina (hey it's been months since launch what could go wrong!?). 

Opened up a big project I had been working on with BBCSO and it kept crashing out, panicked, raised a support ticket with Spitfire and proceeded to roll back to Mojave from my Timemachine backups. It ended up taking all day (had to reinstall Sierra (which is what my Mac came with) then upgrade to Mojave then do a restore from Timemachine).

This morning now safely back on Mojave and fully restored I opened the same project. 
BBCSO was not happy, had to repair it all and relocate each part of it. But finally was happy.......hit play and exactly the same issues as yesterday.

A few instances play fine but when it builds and I drop in a load more parts it just crashes Logic.

I had ZERO issues on Monday running 1.1.8 with this project, the only change has been 1.1.9.

I'm normally a big fan of Spitfire, but I guess I've been lucky, this issue along with the fact some of the trombone patches in SSB are just broken (multi-tongue doesn't work, range on Trombone a6 legato is lower than every other trombone patch, +2 layer option causes issues with playback when using CC data) have made this project impossible to work with.


----------



## merty

After complete re-install of discover I fixed my issue's, but deleted and downloaded everything from scratch.


----------



## Brasart

I think I'm going to stay on macOS 10.13.6 until the end of times, don't see any reason to update -- ever, good luck to you Will!


----------



## Fleer

Would like to do the same, but what with those ARM Macs and Big Sur coming up ...


----------



## rsg22

I finally got around to updating to 1.1.9rc2 a couple days ago, but I'm not getting prompted for the 1.1.9rc3 update. Not sure what to do here - has anyone run into an update just not showing up?


----------



## Zedcars

Brasart said:


> I think I'm going to stay on macOS 10.13.6 until the end of times, don't see any reason to update -- ever, good luck to you Will!


Me too.

Although, I think the best thing (well maybe not best for everyone, but for me) would be to get a second ARM Mac in about 2 or 3 years (my recent Mac Mini will hopefully last that long) and then just use them together with VEP until I’m ready to move over completely. Of course, there are some big ass assumptions there...if VSL don’t port a working VEP to ARM then I’m not sure where that leaves me.

As Spitfire’s plugin is still very young, I have to believe a port to ARM processor version would be relatively easier than say a more established engine like Kontakt. I may have to sell my soul and move to Windows if Kontakt and/or VEP doesn’t get an ARM version.


----------



## Zedcars

Will Wilson said:


> 1.1.9 is a car crash for me.
> 
> Upgraded and didn't think anything of it. Then yesterday morning decided I would take the plunge with Catalina (hey it's been months since launch what could go wrong!?).
> 
> Opened up a big project I had been working on with BBCSO and it kept crashing out, panicked, raised a support ticket with Spitfire and proceeded to roll back to Mojave from my Timemachine backups. It ended up taking all day (had to reinstall Sierra (which is what my Mac came with) then upgrade to Mojave then do a restore from Timemachine).
> 
> This morning now safely back on Mojave and fully restored I opened the same project.
> BBCSO was not happy, had to repair it all and relocate each part of it. But finally was happy.......hit play and exactly the same issues as yesterday.
> 
> A few instances play fine but when it builds and I drop in a load more parts it just crashes Logic.
> 
> I had ZERO issues on Monday running 1.1.8 with this project, the only change has been 1.1.9.
> 
> I'm normally a big fan of Spitfire, but I guess I've been lucky, this issue along with the fact some of the trombone patches in SSB are just broken (multi-tongue doesn't work, range on Trombone a6 legato is lower than every other trombone patch, +2 layer option causes issues with playback when using CC data) have made this project impossible to work with.


What a nightmare! Sorry to hear that. Did TM not backup an older BBCSO version you could use?


----------



## Will Wilson

Zedcars said:


> What a nightmare! Sorry to hear that. Did TM not backup an older BBCSO version you could use?



I don't TM my libraries drive that gets done daily via Carbon Copy Cloner, TM only runs on my system drive.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> As Spitfire’s plugin is still very young, I have to believe a port to ARM processor version would be relatively easier than say a more established engine like Kontakt. I may have to sell my soul and move to Windows if Kontakt and/or VEP doesn’t get an ARM version.


I'm not sure about VEP, but I'm 100% confident that Kontakt will (eventually) be converted - and most other NI plugs. The Mac is such a large market to NI. Same with Spitfire.


----------



## RogiervG

Bitten the bullet.... and purchased the BBC SO Core and the orchestral grand piano (seems to match the BBC SO in terms of placement and piano type).
Let's see how these libs work out the coming days.
Hope the recent bugs reported here, are soon fixed..


----------



## Fleer

Have fun. It’s pretty amazing once you get the feel of an entire orchestra. BBCSO does this all-in-one remarkably.


----------



## redlester

Part two of Pictures at an Exhibition with BBC SO Pro, "The Gnome". Used a bit of SStB for the muted horns.

This is a lot of fun, but I think am going to probably be un-furloughed soon, so the rest might take years!


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> Part two of Pictures at an Exhibition with BBC SO Pro, "The Gnome". Used a bit of SStB for the muted horns.
> 
> This is a lot of fun, but I think am going to probably be un-furloughed soon, so the rest might take years!



Sounds fantastic Bruce! Now start work on the Great Gate of Kiev and knock everyone's socks off!


----------



## Fleer

Absolutely! Just wonderful. Please don’t wait years for the rest.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Sounds fantastic Bruce! Now start work on the Great Gate of Kiev and knock everyone's socks off!



I think “Ballet Of The Chicks In Their Shells” might be the most challenging. I’ve looked ahead at the sheet music and there are hieroglyphics on there that I will have to ask for help about! 😂


----------



## garaughty

redlester said:


> Part two of Pictures at an Exhibition with BBC SO Pro, "The Gnome". Used a bit of SStB for the muted horns.
> 
> This is a lot of fun, but I think am going to probably be un-furloughed soon, so the rest might take years!



Sounds seriously awesome... really well done !


----------



## madfloyd

Forgive me if this has already been posted here but yesterday I saw that there was an update (v1.19) and after I updated all the components nothing worked. It turned out that the updater was putting all the newly downloaded files in a v1.18 folder but the plugin expected everything to be in v1.19... so after moving the files myself it all worked.

Just thought I'd share this experience in case anyone else has the same issue.


----------



## becolossal

madfloyd said:


> Forgive me if this has already been posted here but yesterday I saw that there was an update (v1.19) and after I updated all the components nothing worked. It turned out that the updater was putting all the newly downloaded files in a v1.18 folder but the plugin expected everything to be in v1.19... so after moving the files myself it all worked.
> 
> Just thought I'd share this experience in case anyone else has the same issue.



Can you offer more insight on what's in your 1.1.9 folder? I just installed everything on a new computer and the only thing I have in there is a Contrabassoon Trill. Everything still seems to function ok for me, though.


----------



## madfloyd

becolossal said:


> Can you offer more insight on what's in your 1.1.9 folder? I just installed everything on a new computer and the only thing I have in there is a Contrabassoon Trill. Everything still seems to function ok for me, though.



I believe that was the only patch in my 1.1.9 folder as well - but no matter how often I 'repaired' the other patches would go in 1.1.8 and since the only instrument that WOULD work is the Contrabasoon with that one trill articulation I simply moved whatever the installer put into 1.1.8 into 1.1.9 and then everything worked.

I can understand that only instruments updated for 1.1.9 would go in the 1.1.9 folder but why the plugin (which I verified was v1.1.9) wouldn't find the other instruments I have no idea.


----------



## Fleer

I’m looking at the image of BBCSO in the Spitfire app on my laptop and it’s showing a generic version of the library, not the Pro, Core or Discover version, while the latter is loaded. Does this seem right or should the app show an image of the appropriate version?


----------



## Venator

Here is an example, how BBCSO can sound in the hands of a total beginner. This was my first real attempt to create any kind of music ever. Perhaps I should have started with a bit simpler instruments, but it was the intriguing idea of playing with symphony orchestra instruments, that lured me into trying to create music.


----------



## Brasart

Fleer said:


> I’m looking at the image of BBCSO in the Spitfire app on my laptop and it’s showing a generic version of the library, not the Pro, Core or Discover version, while the latter is loaded. Does this seem right or should the app show an image of the appropriate version?



You mean this?


----------



## Fleer

Indeed, thank you. So it does look the same. I saw a video where the image mentions “Professional version” or the like, but I guess that was only temporary then.


----------



## jaketanner

Having considered BBCSO on and off since it's release, can someone please state the current bugs and issues with the pro version that still exist? And also any updates that you know are being worked on...I am still considering it, but do not want to deal with an unfinished library. Thanks.


----------



## Brasart

jaketanner said:


> Having considered BBCSO on and off since it's release, can someone please state the current bugs and issues with the pro version that still exist? And also any updates that you know are being worked on...I am still considering it, but do not want to deal with an unfinished library. Thanks.



I can only speak for myself but I don't think I'm encountering any bugs or issues. I'm on macOS 10.13.6.
I'm going to be using it pretty much daily for the next 2 years, even though I'm not making full orchestral arrangements.

I think it's pretty much complete, or close to? There was a rumoured piano, but the promised Bass Flute has arrived. Maybe there's more coming but there hasn't been any announcements that I'm aware of


----------



## jaketanner

Brasart said:


> I can only speak for myself but I don't think I'm encountering any bugs or issues. I'm on macOS 10.13.6.
> I'm going to be using it pretty much daily for the next 2 years, even though I'm not making full orchestral arrangements.
> 
> I think it's pretty much complete, or close to? There was a rumoured piano, but the promised Bass Flute has arrived. Maybe there's more coming but there hasn't been any announcements that I'm aware of


is the bass flute being added to the CORE? And I know there were some issues in the beginning with the library...maybe they've been addressed.


----------



## Brasart

jaketanner said:


> is the bass flute being added to the CORE? And I know there were some issues in the beginning with the library...maybe they've been addressed.



I'm only using Pro for now so I won't be of much help with Core, but I think instruments are listed on the product's page


----------



## jaketanner

Brasart said:


> I'm only using Pro for now so I won't be of much help with Core, but I think instruments are listed on the product's page


yes, but if they are adding the bass flute to core, that won't be on there yet. But I'll look...not that it will make much difference anyway.


----------



## Ruffian Price

jaketanner said:


> Having considered BBCSO on and off since it's release, can someone please state the current bugs and issues with the pro version that still exist? And also any updates that you know are being worked on...I am still considering it, but do not want to deal with an unfinished library. Thanks.


It's more of a plugin thing and pretty specific, but if you set your articulations to MIDI channels, a note off on any channel will be treated as a note off for all channels for that specific note. Might be completely irrelevant to you if you're not doing fake rebowing with soft staccatos


----------



## AllanH

jaketanner said:


> Having considered BBCSO on and off since it's release, can someone please state the current bugs and issues with the pro version that still exist? And also any updates that you know are being worked on...I am still considering it, but do not want to deal with an unfinished library. Thanks.



I've been happy with BBCSO, especially after the first few software updates. I've reported a few issues and generally they have been addressed. I have come to very much appreciate the tone of the Orchestra and now generally use it as my first choice.

I think the strings and woodwinds are fantastic and brass OK. The percussion section is excellent.


----------



## jaketanner

AllanH said:


> I've been happy with BBCSO, especially after the first few software updates. I've reported a few issues and generally they have been addressed. I have come to very much appreciate the tone of the Orchestra and now generally use it as my first choice.
> 
> I think the strings and woodwinds are fantastic and brass OK. The percussion section is excellent.


Been receiving a lot of mixed feelings and experiences with this library. Not sure what level everyone that comments is at. But poor legato seems to come up often. But the winds are regarded as pretty great.


----------



## AllanH

jaketanner said:


> Been receiving a lot of mixed feelings and experiences with this library. Not sure what level everyone that comments is at. But poor legato seems to come up often. But the winds are regarded as pretty great.



I may be redneck, but I still like the BBCSO library.


----------



## muziksculp

jaketanner said:


> But poor legato seems to come up often



Really ? Hmmm... Listen to how smooth, and wonderful the legatos sound in this demo using the BBCSO Pro, I hear excellent legato strings, nothing odd, or jumpy in the legato transitions, this demo piece exposes them very nicely.


----------



## dcoscina

jaketanner said:


> Been receiving a lot of mixed feelings and experiences with this library. Not sure what level everyone that comments is at. But poor legato seems to come up often. But the winds are regarded as pretty great.


Not sure where you’re getting that from. Legatos are good.


----------



## John R Wilson

I've found that it can struggle more with the faster legato lines.


----------



## John R Wilson

Its bumpy and not so good when you start to play faster, the legato works quite nice when playing slow. In SCS theirs many types of recorded legato including; fast and run transitions. BBCSO doesn't appear to have this.


----------



## John R Wilson

Its bumpy and not so good when you start to play faster, the legato works quite nice when playing slow. In SCS theirs many types of recorded legato including; fast and run transitions. BBCSO doesn't appear to have this.

EDIT: Whoops, didn't mean to post the same thing twice!


----------



## jaketanner

dcoscina said:


> Not sure where you’re getting that from. Legatos are good.


Asked on FB also for opinions, and most people said while the sound is great, the legato wasn't as smooth. I have a few SF libraries myself: SCS SStS etc...but I think as most developers improve their techniques over the years, seems SF stick with the same ones. In fact I think SStS is worse than SCS in terms of the legato and it's a newer library. 

I can only go by what people are saying though...wish Discover had legato as one of the articulations. However, I do really like the tone of the library as a whole.


----------



## Sovereign

jaketanner said:


> I can only go by what people are saying though...wish Discover had legato as one of the articulations. However, I do really like the tone of the library as a whole.


For me the biggest problems with the whole library is a) no legato rebows and b) there are only two velocity layers overall, which is just crappy. I would not buy it again.


----------



## Geomir

jaketanner said:


> is the bass flute being added to the CORE? And I know there were some issues in the beginning with the library...maybe they've been addressed.


Please add English Horn and Bass Clarinet to your wish list! They are really needed in Core Version, they are essential instruments!


----------



## dcoscina

jaketanner said:


> Asked on FB also for opinions, and most people said while the sound is great, the legato wasn't as smooth. I have a few SF libraries myself: SCS SStS etc...but I think as most developers improve their techniques over the years, seems SF stick with the same ones. In fact I think SStS is worse than SCS in terms of the legato and it's a newer library.
> 
> I can only go by what people are saying though...wish Discover had legato as one of the articulations. However, I do really like the tone of the library as a whole.


Strings have always been fine to my ears. The winds had some issues in V1 but since then spitfire appears to have corrected this. The oboe in particular wasn’t terrible convincing initially but the subsequent updates have fixed that.


----------



## Kevperry777

For you all on Pro, are you able to “dry up” the sound a good bit? I think the instruments are very sufficient in core- but the milky wash of the room sound is just too much for me.


----------



## Brasart

Kevperry777 said:


> For you all on Pro, are you able to “dry up” the sound a good bit? I think the instruments are very sufficient in core- but the milky wash of the room sound is just too much for me.



Yes of course, you get a selection of dry/drier mics: Mono, Close, Close Wide, Stereo, Mids


----------



## jaketanner

dcoscina said:


> Strings have always been fine to my ears. The winds had some issues in V1 but since then spitfire appears to have corrected this. The oboe in particular wasn’t terrible convincing initially but the subsequent updates have fixed that.


how did the update fix the "convincing-ness" of the oboe?


----------



## dcoscina

jaketanner said:


> how did the update fix the "convincing-ness" of the oboe?


The note transitions are much better. Originally the oboe legato didn’t connect that well. And for some reason even it’s tone wasn’t that convincing. For some reason it appears to have been remedied since the various updates. That’s just my experience however.


----------



## jaketanner

Geomir said:


> Please add English Horn and Bass Clarinet to your wish list! They are really needed in Core Version, they are essential instruments!


The issue I think is that SFA sees the "core" version as a "starter" library ...hence someone who is starting out doesn't need those instruments, but it is NOT a starter library, it's just a lighter resourced library hence it should have had all instruments. The "pro" would be the extra 19 mic positions, but to exclude needed and common instruments is bizarre. Also, to include 1 mic out of 20 mics is just messed up. The 3-4 basic mic positions should always be included nowadays. I can hardly think of any library that's been released within the last 5 years that has only 1 mic position.

I know SF wanted to make the Core version affordable to more people, but at what cost? Who did they poll to make the decision as to what to leave out? had they asked HERE, they would have gotten a real-world idea as to what we would be willing to pay but have it be complete. I mean their Albion libraries are about the same price $449...have less material than Core and people still buy them. Why not then charge more for the Core library and give us a complete library without feeling ripped off (not monetary wise, but instrument). 

After seeing and reading many posts here and on FB, I am starting to see that SFA are simply behind other developers both in scripting, recording, value and attention to detail. Just look at VSL and their BBO line. At around $71 per section, you get 7 mic positions, and libraries that can easily be used as the final in your composition...the Brass especially are killer!!!


----------



## jaketanner

dcoscina said:


> The note transitions are much better. Originally the oboe legato didn’t connect that well. And for some reason even it’s tone wasn’t that convincing. For some reason it appears to have been remedied since the various updates. That’s just my experience however.


wild that they were able to fix the tone...maybe they over processed it, and just lessened some of it?


----------



## muk

Kevperry777 said:


> For you all on Pro, are you able to “dry up” the sound a good bit? I think the instruments are very sufficient in core- but the milky wash of the room sound is just too much for me.



Yes, it is possible to create a dry sound with the mic options in 'Pro'. Here are two examples. First the Jake Jackson Mix, then a drier one that I find more suitable for this piece:









Pergolesi WIP Jackson Mix.mp3 | Powered by Box







app.box.com













Pergolesi WIP drier.mp3 | Powered by Box







app.box.com





Again, the first one here is the Jake Jackson Mix. The second one, for demonstration purposes, is drier than I would actually make it:









Brahms Oh Tod BBCSO Jake Jackson Mix 1.mp3 | Powered by Box







app.box.com













Brahms Oh Tod BBCSO dry.mp3 | Powered by Box







app.box.com


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> wild that they were able to fix the tone...maybe they over processed it, and just lessened some of it?



I have not noticed any change in tone of the Oboe.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

My 2 cents - if you are expecting BBCSO, which covers the entire orchestra, to be as in-depth and detailed as say a dedicated string or brass or woodwind library, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. It was never marketed as such, but more so as a "starting point". I view it as a really advanced sketching library...that maybe I don't even want to replace all the instruments of when I'm done sketching. The sound is very cohesive and compared to a lot of sketching libraries (and even dedicated section libraries), they've recorded a huge amount of articulations, mic positions, and instruments. I also personally have never run into issues with the player (and I have the Pro version). YMMV.

I think this is a tinge of anti-Spitfire propaganda on VI for some reason, but the company seems very successful with their approach, has many professional users and fans, and seems to genuinely want to deliver products (and unique ones at that) that help composers.


----------



## jaketanner

ALittleNightMusic said:


> My 2 cents - if you are expecting BBCSO, which covers the entire orchestra, to be as in-depth and detailed as say a dedicated string or brass or woodwind library, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. It was never marketed as such, but more so as a "starting point". I view it as a really advanced sketching library...that maybe I don't even want to replace all the instruments of when I'm done sketching. The sound is very cohesive and compared to a lot of sketching libraries (and even dedicated section libraries), they've recorded a huge amount of articulations, mic positions, and instruments. I also personally have never run into issues with the player (and I have the Pro version). YMMV.
> 
> I think this is a tinge of anti-Spitfire propaganda on VI for some reason, but the company seems very successful with their approach, has many professional users and fans, and seems to genuinely want to deliver products (and unique ones at that) that help composers.


I agree to an extent, the BBC is not comparable to a dedicated instrument library, but I think it's trying to be. And the propaganda has some merit. I own 6 of their libraries, so I know that some of the programming and detail is just not where it could be. I still have issues that not even their remote tech support can figure out.

As far as the BBC...overall I think the concept is great. Although I would not consider it a sketching library at all, or even an advanced one...that means that as some point you'd replace some of the sounds...and at $999 no way should I have to replace anything.. LOL

Will it speed up the workflow? probably for people on a tight deadline, but if you need to spend a lot of time after to edit the parts to be correct or sound right, (of course I can only go by what is being said across other platforms, I don't own it), that seems counterproductive. And the BBC orchestra is excellent...so why then are some instruments (particularly the brass), not on par with the strings or winds? it's not the player's fault. But I do see your point in that how can they give detail to so many instruments in one library when even a dedicated library has issues at times...take the good with the bad I guess


----------



## dzilizzi

jaketanner said:


> I agree to an extent, the BBC is not comparable to a dedicated instrument library, but I think it's trying to be. And the propaganda has some merit. I own 6 of their libraries, so I know that some of the programming and detail is just not where it could be. I still have issues that not even their remote tech support can figure out.
> 
> As far as the BBC...overall I think the concept is great. Although I would not consider it a sketching library at all, or even an advanced one...that means that as some point you'd replace some of the sounds...and at $999 no way should I have to replace anything.. LOL
> 
> Will it speed up the workflow? probably for people on a tight deadline, but if you need to spend a lot of time after to edit the parts to be correct or sound right, (of course I can only go by what is being said across other platforms, I don't own it), that seems counterproductive. And the BBC orchestra is excellent...so why then are some instruments (particularly the brass), not on par with the strings or winds? it's not the player's fault. But I do see your point in that how can they give detail to so many instruments in one library when even a dedicated library has issues at times...take the good with the bad I guess


I would say for you? Don't buy it. You are expecting it to be a perfect library. But it never will be for everyone. 

Me? I'm waiting for the 40% off sale that will eventually happen and I will buy the Pro version. And hope my computer can handle it.


----------



## jaketanner

dzilizzi said:


> I would say for you? Don't buy it. You are expecting it to be a perfect library. But it never will be for everyone.
> 
> Me? I'm waiting for the 40% off sale that will eventually happen and I will buy the Pro version. And hope my computer can handle it.


oh...don't want people to think that I want it to be perfect, there is no such thing...but better than what it is or was upon release, yes. I just think that SFA as a company releases products, then fixes things that bother people afterwards, when they could easily do heavier beta testing and solve these issues BEFORE release. I have never heard anyone say they were on the SFA beta team, like I hear for other libraries, and keeping things internal might generate a little bias. And at $999, regardless if you are getting a deal or not, it's still a lot of money to have to put up with frustrations. They since fixed a few things from what I hear, and maybe in another year from now, the BBCSO will be rock solid and well worth it. But yeah, I think buying it now is not something I should do. Although, for $600 for the pro, that is definitely worth it, then wait for the fixes  TBH, if by Black Friday I have the extra, I'll get it myself.


----------



## omc_29

jaketanner said:


> oh...don't want people to think that I want it to be perfect, there is no such thing...but better than what it is or was upon release, yes. I just think that SFA as a company releases products, then fixes things that bother people afterwards, when they could easily do heavier beta testing and solve these issues BEFORE release. I have never heard anyone say they were on the SFA beta team, like I hear for other libraries, and keeping things internal might generate a little bias. And at $999, regardless if you are getting a deal or not, it's still a lot of money to have to put up with frustrations. They since fixed a few things from what I hear, and maybe in another year from now, the BBCSO will be rock solid and well worth it. But yeah, I think buying it now is not something I should do. Although, for $600 for the pro, that is definitely worth it, then wait for the fixes  TBH, if by Black Friday I have the extra, I'll get it myself.



I agree with this. Also, I'd add that they initially released it as a game changing library at £899 so I was expecting it to be better than what it was on release, It was essentially a starter library with many mics and without the core version as an option!! They then essentially stripped it down and re-released the same library a year later and called it a core version.

I was one of the ones that had a lot of problems on its release. At one point I had audio blasting into my headphones were the plugin crashed :(


----------



## omc_29

jaketanner said:


> oh...don't want people to think that I want it to be perfect, there is no such thing...but better than what it is or was upon release, yes. I just think that SFA as a company releases products, then fixes things that bother people afterwards, when they could easily do heavier beta testing and solve these issues BEFORE release. I have never heard anyone say they were on the SFA beta team, like I hear for other libraries, and keeping things internal might generate a little bias. And at $999, regardless if you are getting a deal or not, it's still a lot of money to have to put up with frustrations. They since fixed a few things from what I hear, and maybe in another year from now, the BBCSO will be rock solid and well worth it. But yeah, I think buying it now is not something I should do. Although, for $600 for the pro, that is definitely worth it, then wait for the fixes  TBH, if by Black Friday I have the extra, I'll get it myself.



I would say however that overall it is a nice library, it has been really well recorded and it does have a nice amount of articulations! I just find that it can be frustrating to work with sometimes. I hope they do improve some of the legatos in the library.


----------



## jaketanner

omc_29 said:


> I would say however that overall it is a nice library, it has been really well recorded and it does have a nice amount of articulations! I just find that it can be frustrating to work with sometimes. I hope they do improve some of the legatos in the library.


exactly...if they had some killer scripting..imagine if they ever partnered up with Jasper from Performance Samples? Damn...to think of the possibilities.. LOL Oh well.


----------



## omc_29

jaketanner said:


> exactly...if they had some killer scripting..imagine if they ever partnered up with Jasper from Performance Samples? Damn...to think of the possibilities.. LOL Oh well.



It would be so good if it had some better scripting and improved legato. The actual recordings have been done very well!!


----------



## jaketanner

omc_29 said:


> It would be so good if it had some better scripting and improved legato. The actual recordings have been done very well!!


I agree. Sf doesn’t have recording issues. It’s always in the end result.


----------



## dzilizzi

jaketanner said:


> oh...don't want people to think that I want it to be perfect, there is no such thing...but better than what it is or was upon release, yes. I just think that SFA as a company releases products, then fixes things that bother people afterwards, when they could easily do heavier beta testing and solve these issues BEFORE release. I have never heard anyone say they were on the SFA beta team, like I hear for other libraries, and keeping things internal might generate a little bias. And at $999, regardless if you are getting a deal or not, it's still a lot of money to have to put up with frustrations. They since fixed a few things from what I hear, and maybe in another year from now, the BBCSO will be rock solid and well worth it. But yeah, I think buying it now is not something I should do. Although, for $600 for the pro, that is definitely worth it, then wait for the fixes  TBH, if by Black Friday I have the extra, I'll get it myself.


But they did Beta test. That's what the LABS were for. Most of the issues were with the player for people who hadn't tried the LABS in the new player before buying BBCSO. And you can't test every configuration of computer even if you use Beta testers.


----------



## aspenleaf

Venator said:


> Here is an example, how BBCSO can sound in the hands of a total beginner. This was my first real attempt to create any kind of music ever. Perhaps I should have started with a bit simpler instruments, but it was the intriguing idea of playing with symphony orchestra instruments, that lured me into trying to create music.



That's very impressive for a first attempt at creating music. Did you study music? Very nice videography and editing, too.


----------



## dcoscina

jaketanner said:


> oh...don't want people to think that I want it to be perfect, there is no such thing...but better than what it is or was upon release, yes. I just think that SFA as a company releases products, then fixes things that bother people afterwards, when they could easily do heavier beta testing and solve these issues BEFORE release. I have never heard anyone say they were on the SFA beta team, like I hear for other libraries, and keeping things internal might generate a little bias. And at $999, regardless if you are getting a deal or not, it's still a lot of money to have to put up with frustrations. They since fixed a few things from what I hear, and maybe in another year from now, the BBCSO will be rock solid and well worth it. But yeah, I think buying it now is not something I should do. Although, for $600 for the pro, that is definitely worth it, then wait for the fixes  TBH, if by Black Friday I have the extra, I'll get it myself.


Beta testers sign an NDA which means they are prohibited to talk about the product they are testing. Generally it also means you don’t brag about being a beta tester...those who do or are discussing aspects of the beta are violating a legal agreement between themselves and the developer.


----------



## jaketanner

dzilizzi said:


> But they did Beta test. That's what the LABS were for. Most of the issues were with the player for people who hadn't tried the LABS in the new player before buying BBCSO. And you can't test every configuration of computer even if you use Beta testers.


I meant more so on the library itself not the player. Like you said too many configurations.


----------



## jaketanner

dcoscina said:


> Beta testers sign an NDA which means they are prohibited to talk about the product they are testing. Generally it also means you don’t brag about being a beta tester...those who do or are discussing aspects of the beta are violating a legal agreement between themselves and the developer.


but it usually comes out. I see posts all the time. But maybe they’re violating the agreement.


----------



## dcoscina

jaketanner said:


> but it usually comes out. I see posts all the time. But maybe they’re violating the agreement.


I have seen some people make mention of it and it’s in poor taste to say the least... but that’s between them and the developer.


----------



## Cormast

Hello there 

How do you use mic position in BBCSO PRO to get a *dry sounding mix*, that doesn't mess up the realism of instrument placement in space ? I've got some troubles mixing stereo mic with others...


----------



## Brasart

The regular close mic is in situ, so a blend of Close/Tree/Outriggers with the close mic as the main mic will get you a dry(er) mix without messing with the placement of the instrument.

Otherwise you can use wide and stereo mics and repan them yourself to a classic orchestral placement.


----------



## muk

Cormast said:


> I've got some troubles mixing stereo mic with others...



As @Brasart wrote, the stereo mics where not set up to record the natural seating position. Instead, everything will sound centered. So when using it on several instruments, you should pan the stereo mic signal accordingly (violins 1 to the left, celli to the right etc.). Here are two links that might be helpful:

Description of each mic signal:









What are the microphones available in the BBC Symphony Orchestra Professional?


The BBC Symphony Orchestra library gives you 20 different microphone signals to use, giving you full control over the sound you want. This article will explain a little bit about each signal as wel...




spitfireaudio.zendesk.com





A chart with the seating posiions and mic placements:









Where were the players and microphones located during the recording of BBC Symphony Orchestra?


Recording the BBCSO: a Placement Diagram




spitfireaudio.zendesk.com


----------



## Venator

aspenleaf said:


> That's very impressive for a first attempt at creating music. Did you study music? Very nice videography and editing, too.


Thank you!

I don't have any formal education in either music or media production and my occupation lies outside of those fields. I had some very basic music theory lessons in elementary school and I have been playing piano (excluding all classical) for my own enjoyment since then (so about 30 years).

It was actually quite strange to realise during this experiment that I am able to create something that appears to be cohesive and sane (at least for my senses).


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

jaketanner said:


> Also, to include 1 mic out of 20 mics is just messed up. The 3-4 basic mic positions should always be included nowadays. I can hardly think of any library that's been released within the last 5 years that has only 1 mic position.



Just to respond to this, the core library does not just contain 1 mic, it contains 1 mix. Little difference.
You can't change the mic's individually, but the mix contains a (Jake Jackson) mixture of Decca, Outriggers, Close & Mid mics.


----------



## jaketanner

Sjoerd Visser said:


> Just to respond to this, the core library does not just contain 1 mic, it contains 1 mix. Little difference.
> You can't change the mic's individually, but the mix contains a (Jake Jackson) mixture of Decca, Outriggers, Close & Mid mics.


Ah..ok, thanks for that clarification. Truthfully I think that might be worse.. LOL Would have preferred a straight up Decca tree Then..UNLESS, you think the mix is custom per section? Versus having the 1 decca only for all instruments? Then that would be good.


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

jaketanner said:


> Ah..ok, thanks for that clarification. Truthfully I think that might be worse.. LOL Would have preferred a straight up Decca tree Then..UNLESS, you think the mix is custom per section? Versus having the 1 decca only for all instruments? Then that would be good.



I don't know the exact specifics, but it is slightly different per section (for instance the strings do not use mid mics)


----------



## jaketanner

Sjoerd Visser said:


> I don't know the exact specifics, but it is slightly different per section (for instance the strings do not use mid mics)


That’s good then. Makes the decision a bit easier. Despite what I keep saying about SFA and their lack of attention to detail at times, I might still get this library. Every new demo done with BBCSO alone sounds so good even from less experienced programmers.


----------



## gussunkri

About Jake’s mix 1: I own pro but I find myself using mix 1 90% of the time. I think it is vastly superior to just a tree mic.


----------



## jaketanner

gussunkri said:


> About Jake’s mix 1: I own pro but I find myself using mix 1 90% of the time. I think it is vastly superior to just a tree mic.


cool...The only other library I have from SFA that has stereo mixes is the SStS pro. Comparing the 2 stereo mixes to what I was able to blend myself...well it's close, but I prefer mine...however, I can see using one of the mixes if they were the only option. 

So the mix 1 does not have any bleed mic? That would have been great if it had even just a tinge of it.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> cool...The only other library I have from SFA that has stereo mixes is the SStS pro. Comparing the 2 stereo mixes to what I was able to blend myself...well it's close, but I prefer mine...however, I can see using one of the mixes if they were the only option.
> 
> So the mix 1 does not have any bleed mic? That would have been great if it had even just a tinge of it.



I don't think Mix 1 comes with any bleed mics. Mix 1 is pretty good, but it can soon get muddy. I personally like to have the close mics in any library that I have.


----------



## Geomir

Copy - paste from Spitfire's website:

"MIX 1

Jake Jackson’s mix, which is a balance of commonly used microphone positions. A great starting point! This is specifically a mix of the Decca Tree, Outriggers, Ambient, Balcony, Mids (not on the Strings!), and Close signals."


----------



## jaketanner

Geomir said:


> Copy - paste from Spitfire's website:
> 
> "MIX 1
> 
> Jake Jackson’s mix, which is a balance of commonly used microphone positions. A great starting point! This is specifically a mix of the Decca Tree, Outriggers, Ambient, Balcony, Mids (not on the Strings!), and Close signals."


not a bad blend.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> I don't think Mix 1 comes with any bleed mics. Mix 1 is pretty good, but it can soon get muddy. I personally like to have the close mics in any library that I have.


you mean muddy within the string section lets say? Or when you use the entire orchestra? I can also see that happening where one mix blend for the entire orchestra can get muddled. However, someone suggested that there might be a different blend of those mics per section...if that's the case, it should eliminate some of that build up.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> you mean muddy within the string section lets say? Or when you use the entire orchestra? I can also see that happening where one mix blend for the entire orchestra can get muddled. However, someone suggested that there might be a different blend of those mics per section...if that's the case, it should eliminate some of that build up.



More so when you start using the entire orchestra and if the piece has fast sections and lots of short notes then you'll loose some clarity without having a close mic and drier sound. I find that Mix 1 is nice but it is a relatively wet mix!


----------



## MartinH.

I would expect that by now someone had the opportunity to determine whether or not the samples in bbc so discover are exactly the same in bbc so core. Has someone done a comparison yet? I know that in Discover there are fewer samples total, stretched over a lot more keys, less velocity layers etc., but back when we discussed it in the bbc so discover thread, a bunch of people couldn't believe those samples to be from bbc core/pro, and I'm interested what the answer is.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> I find that Mix 1 is nice but it is a relatively wet mix!


crap...because I am demoing the Discover version to get a sense of the overall sound and their mix is swimming..LOL Totally unusable for some interments, then the winds are much drier and sound great...so strange to the choices. So then this makes me a bit nervous. I just don't see why they didn't just give the option of the 4 main mics rather than limit to one "mix"...seems like they give a little, and hold back a lot.


----------



## jaketanner

MartinH. said:


> Has someone done a comparison yet? I know that in Discover there are fewer samples total, stretched over a lot more keys


I have this experience with the violas in Discover...they sound absolutely awful!!! Compared to the strong violin sample, the violas sound like they used either a flautando sample or was simply stretched for the entire range...the higher register sounds "broken". LMAO


----------



## dzilizzi

jaketanner said:


> cool...The only other library I have from SFA that has stereo mixes is the SStS pro. Comparing the 2 stereo mixes to what I was able to blend myself...well it's close, but I prefer mine...however, I can see using one of the mixes if they were the only option.
> 
> So the mix 1 does not have any bleed mic? That would have been great if it had even just a tinge of it.


I think part of the point of Core is to give a give a good mix that allows for use on a not so powerful computer. And generally, the buying point on the pro version is more mic options. It is the same with SCS Pro and SStO Pro.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> crap...because I am demoing the Discover version to get a sense of the overall sound and their mix is swimming..LOL Totally unusable for some interments, then the winds are much drier and sound great...so strange to the choices. So then this makes me a bit nervous. I just don't see why they didn't just give the option of the 4 main mics rather than limit to one "mix"...seems like they give a little, and hold back a lot.



I have not really used discover as i've got the pro version so I have no need to use it. But I think that the discover version is more wet than the core versions mix from when I briefly tried it out a while ago. I think they might of added additional reverb to the discover version. I'll load it up a little later on to see if that's the case.


----------



## jaketanner

dzilizzi said:


> I think part of the point of Core is to give a give a good mix that allows for use on a not so powerful computer. And generally, the buying point on the pro version is more mic options. It is the same with SCS Pro and SStO Pro.


it's a shame because some choices prevent people from getting it. I wish that SFA can adapt the SINE engine philosophy with mic mixes. You can create the blend you like, then "render" it so that it's a much smaller footprint...that's brilliant. Oh well.. LOL


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> I have not really used discover as i've got the pro version so I have no need to use it. But I think that the discover version is more wet than the core versions mix from when I briefly tried it out a while ago. I think they might of added additional reverb to the discover version. I'll load it up a little later on to see if that's the case.


I would appreciate that...also, if you wouldn't mind checking out the violas to see what the heck they did there.. LOL Sounds bad.


----------



## John R Wilson

dzilizzi said:


> I think part of the point of Core is to give a give a good mix that allows for use on a not so powerful computer. And generally, the buying point on the pro version is more mic options. It is the same with SCS Pro and SStO Pro.



I agree with this. I think that the core version is at a good price for what you get and I would prefer the mix 1 than just a single tree mic. You get a whole orchestra, with a fair amount of articulations and a pretty good mix. It does have its problems and some weaknesses though but I suppose many libraries do. However, it does become more debatable as to whether the pro version is as good at its price range. You get all the mics but their no more deeper sampling in the pro version than what is already in the core version. You obviously do get a few more instruments with the Pro version.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> I would appreciate that...also, if you wouldn't mind checking out the violas to see what the heck they did there.. LOL Sounds bad.



I'll have a look later and let you know  I'll also try and see if I can do a small example. I would say that the Discover version is a lot more limited than the core version. Theirs only 1 RR and 1 dynamic layer in it.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> I'll have a look later and let you know  I'll also try and see if I can do a small example. I would say that the Discover version is a lot more limited than the core version. Theirs only 1 RR and 1 dynamic layer in it.


limited for sure, and I'm taking that into account. Just that the viola sounds like it's a flautando patch compared to the fullness of the violin. Cello doesn't sound that great either, but the bass is nice and full. Weird.. LOL


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> limited for sure, and I'm taking that into account. Just that the viola sounds like it's a flautando patch compared to the fullness of the violin. Cello doesn't sound that great either, but the bass is nice and full. Weird.. LOL




Here's a quick examples using the violas long articulation using core and then Discover, the core version had its release increased. No effects have been added at all. Volume might be quite low on it as I've not added a limiter or anything.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Here's a quick examples using the violas long articulation using core and then Discover, the core version had its release increased. No effects have been added at all. Volume might be quite low on it as I've not added a limiter or anything.


Core sounds so much fuller and warm. Playing single notes in the viola Discover, it just sounds so weak and missing any body. is it possible that it didn't load properly? Because the violin sound is actually pretty good..nice and full and rich. Don't get it, but I'm glad it doesn't sound that way in core. Thanks for doing that.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> Core sounds so much fuller and warm. Playing single notes in the viola Discover, it just sounds so weak and missing any body. is it possible that it didn't load properly? Because the violin sound is actually pretty good..nice and full and rich. Don't get it, but I'm glad it doesn't sound that way in core. Thanks for doing that.




Here's a single note played on both core and discover with dynamics raising up and then down.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Here's a single note played on both core and discover with dynamics raising up and then down.


Thanks again. I think that the higher register, like the high E in the viola Discover seems like it's missing samples, but I know it's high for viola. I just tried layering the entire section in my DAW, and for a single layer dynamic it actually sounds very smooth...I am very inclined to get this library simply for the strings. Will have to think about this...but thanks again...big difference between the two.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> Thanks again. I think that the higher register, like the high E in the viola Discover seems like it's missing samples, but I know it's high for viola. I just tried layering the entire section in my DAW, and for a single layer dynamic it actually sounds very smooth...I am very inclined to get this library simply for the strings. Will have to think about this...but thanks again...big difference between the two.



No prob. If theirs anything else you would like me to do to compare the core and discover version then let me know.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> No prob. If theirs anything else you would like me to do to compare the core and discover version then let me know.


Will do, but I think I have enough info. If I do get core, I may end up with too in BF anyway.


----------



## MartinH.

John R Wilson said:


> Here's a single note played on both core and discover with dynamics raising up and then down.



Thanks for the comparison! Sounds to me like maybe the mic mix is slightly different between the two, but to my ears it's not a huge difference. Definitely not completely different sample recordings I'd say.


----------



## gussunkri

MartinH. said:


> Thanks for the comparison! Sounds to me like maybe the mic mix is slightly different between the two, but to my ears it's not a huge difference. Definitely not completely different sample recordings I'd say.


I think they are both using Mix 1, but I have a hunch that Discover has added reverb.


----------



## MartinH.

gussunkri said:


> I think they are both using Mix 1, but I have a hunch that Discover has added reverb.



It definitely has a reverb knob in the interface. Not sure if pro/core have that too.


----------



## Brasart

Discover's mix is way more wet than Pro's Mix1, Pro has a reverb knob too but it's off by default


----------



## John R Wilson

Brasart said:


> Discover's mix is way more wet than Pro's Mix1, Pro has a reverb knob too but it's off by default



Yeah, I think they did add some additional reverb in the discover version.


----------



## jaketanner

gussunkri said:


> I think they are both using Mix 1, but I have a hunch that Discover has added reverb.


and a lot of it.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> No prob. If theirs anything else you would like me to do to compare the core and discover version then let me know.


BTW, it says the core and pro versions are standalone...does this mean actually standalone? no DAW to just play around with it? Like you can with Kontakt and Synchron Player.


----------



## Simeon

jaketanner said:


> BTW, it says the core and pro versions are standalone...does this mean actually standalone? no DAW to just play around with it? Like you can with Kontakt and Synchron Player.



I am not seeing a Stand-Alone application for the Spitfire Audio Player, it only appears to come as a plugin. I am not sure what they might be referring to.


----------



## styledelk

Simeon said:


> I am not seeing a Stand-Alone application for the Spitfire Audio Player, it only appears to come as a plugin. I am not sure what they might be referring to.



It's simply that it doesn't require Kontakt. Still has to be a plugin.


----------



## jaketanner

Simeon said:


> I am not seeing a Stand-Alone application for the Spitfire Audio Player, it only appears to come as a plugin. I am not sure what they might be referring to.


was afraid of that...I use stand alone players all the time to get ideas or just create patches without having to open my DAW...weird that it's not.


----------



## jaketanner

styledelk said:


> It's simply that it doesn't require Kontakt. Still has to be a plugin.


oh...misleading then. And I am not sure what needs to happen to make a plugin truly standalone, like Kontakt or Synchron Player...not sure actually if the SINE engine from OT is stand alone either.


----------



## Simeon

jaketanner said:


> was afraid of that...I use standalone players all the time to get ideas or just create patches without having to open my DAW...weird that it's not.



Yeah, when LABS first came out I was looking for a standalone version of the player but alas ;^(


----------



## styledelk

jaketanner said:


> oh...misleading then. And I am not sure what needs to happen to make a plugin truly standalone, like Kontakt or Synchron Player...not sure actually if the SINE engine from OT is stand alone either.



SINE is standalone in the "it's an executable application outside of a DAW, too."


----------



## MartinH.

jaketanner said:


> was afraid of that...I use stand alone players all the time to get ideas or just create patches without having to open my DAW...weird that it's not.



Reaper takes like 3 seconds to load, so if DAW load time is the roadblock for you, it's worth checking out a trial version to see if this allows you to do what you want.


----------



## styledelk

You could also load into Komplete Kontrol with the added benefit of easily moving around to different libraries...

I regret doing this 90% of the time. Find something I like and lose it by the time I've moved over to the DAW.


----------



## jaketanner

styledelk said:


> SINE is standalone in the "it's an executable application outside of a DAW, too."


oh awesome..so then what can't the BBC be that also? Wonder what the purpose of just making it a DAW app serves. it's far more convenient to be able to work without the DAW...especially say if you use it for live playing or just for practice.


----------



## jaketanner

MartinH. said:


> Reaper takes like 3 seconds to load, so if DAW load time is the roadblock for you, it's worth checking out a trial version to see if this allows you to do what you want.


oh not at all...just if I have an idea or just want to create some patches or even get familiar with it, I would need to open and set up a session...can get messy with file management having multiple "test" sessions all the time...but also I find it far easier to just use the plugin without the DAW to noodle for ideas without having more things on screen...so. might have say Kontakt open on my desktop, while surfing the web or trying to match a sound...hard to do that within the DAW without the DAW in the background or splitting the screen...I mean there are advantages (for me at least) in having a totally separate player.


----------



## styledelk

jaketanner said:


> oh awesome..so then what can't the BBC be that also? Wonder what the purpose of just making it a DAW app serves. it's far more convenient to be able to work without the DAW...especially say if you use it for live playing or just for practice.



Developer resources and product choices, I suppose. Writing a VST/AU library (each also significantly different) isn't the same thing as writing a standalone application. I imagine you have to take care of all sorts of things the DAW takes care of: dealing with lower-level audio interface drivers, MIDI, etc. Add in having to do that for Mac and PC and maintain and bugfix all of that, too. It's liable to keep you from releasing libraries and updates as frequently because there's that much more to consider every time. 

They made a choice (that yes, others didn't make) on the tradeoff. Sine's standalone app is buggy, slow to move between tabs, and doesn't feel any easier to work with quickly than just going with the VST.


----------



## jaketanner

styledelk said:


> Developer resources and product choices, I suppose. Writing a VST/AU library (each also significantly different) isn't the same thing as writing a standalone application. I imagine you have to take care of all sorts of things the DAW takes care of: dealing with lower-level audio interface drivers, MIDI, etc. Add in having to do that for Mac and PC and maintain and bugfix all of that, too. It's liable to keep you from releasing libraries and updates as frequently because there's that much more to consider every time.
> 
> They made a choice (that yes, others didn't make) on the tradeoff. Sine's standalone app is buggy, slow to move between tabs, and doesn't feel any easier to work with quickly than just going with the VST.


True. Updates would need to happen on all platforms. But I think VSL had a killer team to put their Synchron Player together. It’s very Innovative, easy to use and powerful. Sometimes I wish there was some standardization between VIs


----------



## Jack Weaver

jaketanner said:


> True. Updates would need to happen on all platforms. But I think VSL had a killer team to put their Synchron Player together. It’s very Innovative, easy to use and powerful. Sometimes I wish there was some standardization between VIs


Yeah, VSL Synchron Player is killer. Significantly the best of the bunch. 
Spitfire should take a deeper look at their player. 

.


----------



## jaketanner

Jack Weaver said:


> Yeah, VSL Synchron Player is killer. Significantly the best of the bunch.
> Spitfire should take a deeper look at their player.
> 
> .


My thoughts too...However, I do have to say, that as scaled down a GUI as Discover is, it is so easy to switch between instruments on the fly to try out parts...I mean just click the area in the orchestra and you get the sound...that is a great approach too but it stops there.. LOL


----------



## John R Wilson

Jack Weaver said:


> Yeah, VSL Synchron Player is killer. Significantly the best of the bunch.
> Spitfire should take a deeper look at their player.
> 
> .



I agree, I absolutely love the Synchron player!! It just feel like they have really taken the time to properly develop it.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> My thoughts too...However, I do have to say, that as scaled down a GUI as Discover is, it is so easy to switch between instruments on the fly to try out parts...I mean just click the area in the orchestra and you get the sound...that is a great approach too but it stops there.. LOL



They could extend that idea to both core and pro. Also, wouldn't it be cool if you could also select multiple sections such as the violins and woodwinds or a horn and a cello. That would be awesome.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> They could extend that idea to both core and pro. Also, wouldn't it be cool if you could also select multiple sections such as the violins and woodwinds or a horn and a cello. That would be awesome.


To instantly layer? Yeah definitely. It’s ok me thing I love about Kontakt. I can layer and create my own patch.


----------



## Zanshin

John R Wilson said:


> I agree, I absolutely love the Synchron player!! It just feel like they have really taken the time to properly develop it.



I really don't like the BBC SO/SF player. I like the Sine player a good bit... I've played with the VSL Synchron player just a bit - can you layer instruments like Sine/Kontakt? I.e. 1st and 2nd strings at the same time in the same instance?

The SF player needs a lot of work to catch up IMO.


----------



## John R Wilson

Zanshin said:


> I really don't like the BBC SO/SF player. I like the Sine player a good bit... I've played with the VSL Synchron player just a bit - can you layer instruments like Sine/Kontakt? I.e. 1st and 2nd strings at the same time in the same instance?
> 
> The SF player needs a lot of work to catch up IMO.



The lack of multi timbral support in the Spitfire player is my biggest issue with it. I do hope that they add this feature very soon!! Yes you can layer different instruments at the same time and in the same instance in the Synchron player.


----------



## Zanshin

John R Wilson said:


> The lack of multi timbral support in the Spitfire player is my biggest issue with it. I do hope that they add this feature very soon!! Yes you can layer different instruments at the same time and in the same instance in the Synchron player.



Awesome, thank you for the info!


----------



## John R Wilson

Zanshin said:


> Awesome, thank you for the info!



No prob


----------



## dzilizzi

jaketanner said:


> was afraid of that...I use stand alone players all the time to get ideas or just create patches without having to open my DAW...weird that it's not.


And this is one of the reasons I got Blue Cat Audio's Patchwork. I can load any VST file in and it will run like a standalone. Really comes in handy when loading new plugins too. I open them up in Patchwork, activate and I'm good to go. 

I'm sure there are other options similar to Patchwork.


----------



## jaketanner

Zanshin said:


> I really don't like the BBC SO/SF player. I like the Sine player a good bit... I've played with the VSL Synchron player just a bit - can you layer instruments like Sine/Kontakt? I.e. 1st and 2nd strings at the same time in the same instance?
> 
> The SF player needs a lot of work to catch up IMO.


oh yeah...you can do a lot of custom work. Definitely layer so that you can make tutti patches or orchestral hit.


----------



## Bluemount Score

it took me some time but I made a complete list of what I prefer regarding the bbcso / spitfire player vs kontakt:

Pro BBCSO / Spitfire player
- looks pretty cool, especially the black version of bbcso pro
- resizable GUI

Pro Kontakt
- all the rest


But well, at least it just works for me (currently... after many hickups)


----------



## John R Wilson

Bluemount Score said:


> it took me some time but I made a complete list of what I prefer regarding the bbcso / spitfire player vs kontakt:
> 
> Pro BBCSO / Spitfire player
> - looks pretty cool, especially the black version of bbcso pro
> - resizable GUI
> 
> Pro Kontakt
> - all the rest
> 
> 
> But well, at least it just works for me (currently... after many hickups)



Yeah that's a good summary of it. My main issue is the lack of multi timbral support.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Yeah that's a good summary of it. My main issue is the lack of multi timbral support.


That’s mind boggling. Especially when you have a chance at creating pretty much whatever you want in a player and you choose to leave out there be if the most widely used feature. Totally mind blowing.


----------



## jaketanner

Hope the BBCSO player doesn’t become as widely disliked at the Play engine from EW. Lol


----------



## CT

The player is fine. I'm sure these additional functions will come.


----------



## jaketanner

Mike T said:


> The player is fine. I'm sure these additional functions will come.


Good because I’m considering pro during their summer sale. Depending on how much.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> Good because I’m considering pro during their summer sale. Depending on how much.



Yeah i'm pretty sure that they will add those features in the end.


----------



## jbuhler

jaketanner said:


> was afraid of that...I use stand alone players all the time to get ideas or just create patches without having to open my DAW...weird that it's not.


I use Unify for this functionality. I agree it would be great if SF offered this on their own.


----------



## Fleer

Still didn’t jump on Unify myself. Would indeed be great if Spitfire brings those additional functions.


----------



## Memarkiam

I Just got BBSCO Pro a couple of days ago. Taking a little while to get setup and workflow how I'd like. 

Their free Logic template is an amazing asset to offer, but for me it's taken quite a bit of tweaking to be usable. But getting there.

First impressions: Strings I love. Woodwinds...a bit disappointed at the moment, but I probably need to learn how to work them more. Brass - some nice aspects, but haven't looked at them really yet. Will do today. Haven't played wth mic positions yet - bit intimidated by this!  but will have a go today. 

But I have a question for those of you using this library: Are you using the reverb that comes with the library/each sound? Or are you leaving this off and adding reverb in your DAW? I believe one of the points of this library was the 'sound of the room' (Air Studios) so I guess it makes sense to use this.

But if so, I haven't yet found how to control this reverb remotely. I'm sure it's straightforward...just not apparent to me yet. So far all I can do it open each sound individually and set it there, which isn't practical over a whole mix, and wanting to experiment with different settings/levels. Any tips on how to manage this either from my DAW (Logic) or from a Control Surface? (I'm using my old but trusted Yamaha Motif ES8)

Thanks for any help.


----------



## Memarkiam

Memarkiam said:


> But if so, I haven't yet found how to control this reverb remotely.


I've answered my own question. You right-click on the control wheel on the player and tell it which CC number you want to use to control the reverb. But do you really need to do this separately for every individual patch? Surely there's a global way to set this?


----------



## muk

Memarkiam said:


> Surely there's a global way to set this?



If so I haven't found it. Would be interested to know too. Even if I don't use it at the moment. With so many mic positions you can shape the sound from quite dry to very wet. So instead of using the reverb, I rather change the mic settings if I want a more ambient sound. So far, mostly the opposite has been true for me though. I am usually looking to create a drier mix with BBCSO. The Jake Jackson Mix 1 is a nice starting point. But for most of my tracks I prefer a drier mix. Thus I didn't really need the the built in reverb yet. I just add a bit of the ambient or gallery mic instead.


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

Memarkiam said:


> But I have a question for those of you using this library: Are you using the reverb that comes with the library/each sound? Or are you leaving this off and adding reverb in your DAW? I believe one of the points of this library was the 'sound of the room' (Air Studios) so I guess it makes sense to use this.



Just to correct you there.. it is actually recorded in the Maida Vale Studios 

I usually don't use build-in reverbs but rather get the room sound I want with the mic positions and apply different reverbs in my DAW.


----------



## Brasart

Memarkiam said:


> I Just got BBSCO Pro a couple of days ago. Taking a little while to get setup and workflow how I'd like.
> 
> Their free Logic template is an amazing asset to offer, but for me it's taken quite a bit of tweaking to be usable. But getting there.
> 
> First impressions: Strings I love. Woodwinds...a bit disappointed at the moment, but I probably need to learn how to work them more. Brass - some nice aspects, but haven't looked at them really yet. Will do today. Haven't played wth mic positions yet - bit intimidated by this!  but will have a go today.
> 
> But I have a question for those of you using this library: Are you using the reverb that comes with the library/each sound? Or are you leaving this off and adding reverb in your DAW? I believe one of the points of this library was the 'sound of the room' (Air Studios) so I guess it makes sense to use this.
> 
> But if so, I haven't yet found how to control this reverb remotely. I'm sure it's straightforward...just not apparent to me yet. So far all I can do it open each sound individually and set it there, which isn't practical over a whole mix, and wanting to experiment with different settings/levels. Any tips on how to manage this either from my DAW (Logic) or from a Control Surface? (I'm using my old but trusted Yamaha Motif ES8)
> 
> Thanks for any help.



BBCSO wasn't recorded in Air Studios but in Maida Vale, which is akin to a scoring stage.
I never use any built-in reverb from orchestral products, always additional reverb from my DAW as it's easier to control both the sound and usability -- but you're free to do whatever fits your workflow the best!

As for a custom global midi map... that's what building templates is for, you lose a day or two building your own but you win a life of being able to use stuff instantly afterwards


----------



## Memarkiam

muk said:


> If so I haven't found it. Would be interested to know too. Even if I don't use it at the moment. With so many mic positions you can shape the sound from quite dry to very wet. So instead of using the reverb, I rather change the mic settings if I want a more ambient sound. So far, mostly the opposite has been true for me though. I am usually looking to create a drier mix with BBCSO. The Jake Jackson Mix 1 is a nice starting point. But for most of my tracks I prefer a drier mix. Thus I didn't really need the the built in reverb yet. I just add a bit of the ambient or gallery mic instead.



Ah, that makes sense, thanks. Will look at that. Have just been playing with the mic positions...


----------



## Fleer

As for reverb, I feel FabFilter Pro-R works best, but I also like Exponential Audio Nimbus and Valhalla Room. For specific halls, EastWest Spaces.


----------



## joeyf

Hi everyone, Just starting to look at BBC SO, the full version, I noticed that even with taking articulations off, for example a solo clarinet is still using something like 1.5 approx GBs of ram, is this right and is there any way to bring this further down with less mics if just a mix mic? I tried using it in VEpro7, it came down to 548 MB, but VEpro has it's probs as well...maybe I'm not using VEpro right at this stage...

What are others experiencing at the moment?

Is there a way around this?

Thanks!


----------



## AllanH

joeyf said:


> Hi everyone, Just starting to look at BBC SO, the full version, I noticed that even with taking articulations off, for example a solo clarinet is still using something like 1.5 approx GBs of ram,...



In my experience, the Spitfire player does not fully release all memory as you unload articulations. Early on, I spent hours with Spitfire support documenting specific cases, so I know it got substantially better. 

I get the lowest ram consumption if I load the articulations I want, save the project, close the DAW and reload.


----------



## CT

This is why I hope eventually all versions of their player will be updated so that the articulation editor is opened before anything actually loads into RAM. Seems much more sensible.


----------



## redlester

joeyf said:


> Hi everyone, Just starting to look at BBC SO, the full version, I noticed that even with taking articulations off, for example a solo clarinet is still using something like 1.5 approx GBs of ram, is this right and is there any way to bring this further down with less mics if just a mix mic? I tried using it in VEpro7, it came down to 548 MB, but VEpro has it's probs as well...maybe I'm not using VEpro right at this stage...
> 
> What are others experiencing at the moment?
> 
> Is there a way around this?
> 
> Thanks!



Using the Spitfire Logic template, where everything loads up with all tracks switched off (unloaded from RAM), if I then load an instance of the clarinet legato, it is showing 295MB on the plugin.






If I then switch on the solo clarinet longs and shorts (i.e. all the solo clarinet articulations loaded) it's still only 536MB on the plug in. These figures are all using the default Mix 1 Mics.


----------



## Gzu

Hello everyone!

Got my BBCSO Pro yesterday, and till now everything is running great.
The sound is very good, the so called choesion is there, it didn't disappointed me, but the RAM footprint is Gigantic!!
It is normal to have all the articulations loaded, for all the sections, only using MIX 1 and have a total of 47 Gigs of Ram occupied.
What is more strange, is the RAM that Spitfire BBC player read...only 14.7 Gigs of Ram.
Why such a big discrepancy between the Spitfire player readings and what actually is allocated in memory ??
I'm using Vepro 6 in a 64 Gig Ram computer.
I would like to see implemented a new player skin...the default is very dark.

Best regards.


----------



## Theladur

I observed a weird RAM behaviour as well, using BBCSO Core on Windows 10, Studio One 4.


When I am loading e.g. the Celli Patch, the RAM usage in Windows Task Manager jumps from 3.6 up to 5.4.
I.e. the plugin takes 1.8 GB of RAM, while the Plugin itself shows only 858 MB.
Interestingly, when I switch to Discover mode (it obviously goes down then), and then switch back to Core mode, it shows only 4.6 in the Task Manager, i.e. only takes 1GB instead of 1.8GB.

Loading the whole string sections takes up ~7.4GB, and when switching to discover and back to Core, the whole string section then only takes 3.6GB (plugin itself shows 3.24GB), i.e. a lot of memory is used initially, which somehow seems to be not needed (I noticed no difference in playability after switching back and forth).


The weird part is, that even though one might at first think that this is an issue, as one expects the RAM to be "full" after loading a few instruments, this seems not to be the case.

If I keep loading instruments, until I reach the maximum of my rig (16GB of RAM), and then continue loading further instruments, they load up without a problem (and the swap file is not touched, still just using RAM). Weirdly, after reaching that "maximum", the RAM usage actually goes down when further instruments are loaded... It doesn't matter if further BBCSO instances or other plugins (i.e. Kontakt libraries) are loaded.

So, initially the plugin seems to take more RAM than needed, however, when no more RAM is available, and further instances of itself or other plugins are loaded, the plugin seems to free RAM which it is not actually needing. So, what at first sight looks problematic, actually seems to be no problem.
It is a weird behavior nevertheless, and I still think they should fix this somehow.


----------



## Hooo

Mike T said:


> This is why I hope eventually all versions of their player will be updated so that the articulation editor is opened before anything actually loads into RAM. Seems much more sensible.



This is not quite what you're after, but in case you don't know:
In the options menu (the cog at the top right) under "plug-in" you can set the default preset to "none", so you're not loading up the whole Violin 1's every time you load up the plugin.


----------



## CT

Yep, I have it set to load an empty instance by default.


----------



## Fleer

Hooo said:


> This is not quite what you're after, but in case you don't know:
> In the options menu (the cog at the top right) under "plug-in" you can set the default preset to "none", so you're not loading up the whole Violin 1's every time you load up the plugin.


Thanks. Stupid me.


----------



## CT

Since E.T. mockups are in the air, I wanted to try just these few opening bars with BBCSO earlier this evening. Leaving it here if anyone is interested.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Mike T said:


> Since E.T. mockups are in the air, I wanted to try just these few opening bars with BBCSO earlier this evening. Leaving it here if anyone is interested.


Nooiice. If you don’t mind my prying, what combo of artics on the hi woods are used to get that effect?


----------



## CT

Piccolo down to the clarinets are all using the default legato patch. I could have broken the phrases up more with the clarinets since they don't have the full performance legatos yet, but... too lazy.


----------



## muk

Here is a bit of LotR with BBCSO.

The Shire:









The Shire - BBCSO.mp3 | Powered by Box







app.box.com









__





LotR - The Shire mockup BBCSO #oneorchestra


Hi everyone, Here is a track from Howard Shore's Lord of the Rings soundtrack that I mocked up: 'The Shire'. Everything is BBCSO, with the following exceptions: the Zither is Orange Tree Samples Angelic Zither. I didn't have a Bodhran library, so I took the Kroboto patch from the Kontakt...




vi-control.net


----------



## Fleer

Great this is working with Angelic Zither.


----------



## muk

Fleer said:


> Great this is working with Angelic Zither.



Thanks Fleer. Yes, I think the Angelic Zither works pretty well. I think it is a hammered dulcimer in the original, but I don't have such a library.


----------



## CT

Yep, dulcimer and nylon guitar in the original.


----------



## Fleer

Just saw SonicCouture has an interesting dulcimer, albeit of a different persuasion: http://www.soniccouture.com/en/products/p265-kim/


----------



## CT

More messing about with BBCSO relating to conversation in another thread. I'm sure eventually I'll write something of my own again.


----------



## Beans

Mike T said:


> More messing about with BBCSO relating to conversation in another thread. I'm sure eventually I'll write something of my own again.




I'm really digging the strings and low percussion. Any tips on the strings? Thanks for posting.


----------



## CT

Beans said:


> I'm really digging the strings and low percussion. Any tips on the strings? Thanks for posting.



Dunno about tips, it's just the tree for the strings. Nothing fancy going on except a somewhat drastic amount of "air" EQing on the master as an experiment/attempt at matching the original sound.


----------



## Bluemount Score

muk said:


> Thanks Fleer. Yes, I think the Angelic Zither works pretty well. I think it is a hammered dulcimer in the original, but I don't have such a library.


If this is still relevant, there is a free LABS with hammered dulcimer that sounds very nice


----------



## muk

Bluemount Score said:


> If this is still relevant, there is a free LABS with hammered dulcimer that sounds very nice



Thank you for the tip!


----------



## jaketanner

For those that have BBC Pro, how often do you use the leaders? Do they add more detail or doesn’t matter?


----------



## easyrider

jaketanner said:


> For those that have BBC Pro, how often do you use the leaders? Do they add more detail or doesn’t matter?



Have you not bought it yet ?


----------



## styledelk

There should just be a thread of “Jake Tanner asks questions about BBC Pro” that archives all of these. 
Each time he can reply “I’m still on the fence, but I may hold out until Black Friday. Do you think it’ll be 40%?”


----------



## CT

jaketanner said:


> For those that have BBC Pro, how often do you use the leaders? Do they add more detail or doesn’t matter?



They can add detail, but they're entirely capable and lovely in a solo or chamber context too.


----------



## jaketanner

Mike T said:


> They can add detail, but they're entirely capable and lovely in a solo or chamber context too.


that's excellent to know. Thanks.


----------



## Rory

Mike T said:


> They can add detail, but they're entirely capable and lovely in a solo or chamber context too.



Which is the principal reason why I upgraded from Core to Pro.


----------



## jaketanner

styledelk said:


> There should just be a thread of “Jake Tanner asks questions about BBC Pro” that archives all of these.
> Each time he can reply “I’m still on the fence, but I may hold out until Black Friday. Do you think it’ll be 40%?”


Damn...LOL okay...no more questions. HA..it's that being burned so many times in the past, that it kills me to see libraries and money just sitting in drives wasted and never used once.


----------



## jaketanner

easyrider said:


> Have you not bought it yet ?


I have my EDU codes...just a matter of weighing if I get core now, then Pro during the wish list, but most likely option is Pro now...I have 64 gigs of RAM I ordered coming in, and I have to add my new SSD T7...got them just for the BBC...so yeah, it's coming.. LOL


----------



## styledelk

I also am waiting on a new SSD to upgrade from Core.


----------



## AndyP

jaketanner said:


> I have my EDU codes...just a matter of weighing if I get core now, then Pro during the wish list, but most likely option is Pro now...I have 64 gigs of RAM I ordered coming in, and I have to add my new SSD T7...got them just for the BBC...so yeah, it's coming.. LOL


It was clear that you would upgrade to 64 at some point ... (wiseass mode off).


----------



## jaketanner

styledelk said:


> I also am waiting on a new SSD to upgrade from Core.


I just got the T7 which is twice as fast as my current Sandisk. Figured it would be plenty fast for the BBC


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

jaketanner said:


> Damn...LOL okay...no more questions. HA..it's that being burned so many times in the past, that it kills me to see libraries and money just sitting in drives wasted and never used once.



I'm going to save you $1k - without a consulting fee  I would advise you not to buy it. Based on your posts here, it seems you do not gel well with Spitfire's general sampling and programming approach. BBCSO has its shortcomings. If that bothers you about libraries, especially Spitfire libraries, you will be "burned" by buying BBCSO and it'd be a pity to spend not only your money, but also your time on something that doesn't give you pleasure. Go buy something from a developer you absolutely love! It'll serve you better in the end.

On the other hand, I love what Spitfire is doing and I think BBCSO is awesome


----------



## jaketanner

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I'm going to save you $1k - without a consulting fee  I would advise you not to buy it. Based on your posts here, it seems you do not gel well with Spitfire's general sampling and programming approach. BBCSO has its shortcomings. If that bothers you about libraries, especially Spitfire libraries, you will be "burned" by buying BBCSO and it'd be a pity to spend not only your money, but also your time on something that doesn't give you pleasure. Go buy something from a developer you absolutely love! It'll serve you better in the end.
> 
> On the other hand, I love what Spitfire is doing and I think BBCSO is awesome


in all honesty...and seriously speaking...yes it's true that I think SF could do much better in programming and details...I own 6 libraries from them (SCS, Albion One, Solo Strings, the whole Studio series pro) and used only the SStW and Albion One on a project. I may never use SCS because it's not what I generally write now...when I first got it, it was the only real library I had, then quickly I bought others and never really found a need to use it (maybe one day). Albion One I like for Epic and sound design...the Studio winds are okay for now, but I do believe wholeheartedly, that BBC does sound great. I know of all the shortcomings and my "theory" behind it is that it's their flagship library and they do seem to be updating it regularly...so I think that in time, they will work out all the kinks...especially if they want to use their player for all their new libraries. I think the sound of the BBC orchestra and room are unique and different enough than anything I have. Besides having the entire orchestra in one place seems like a faster work flow for me, and having leaders that seem to be useable is a big plus...and being a recording/mix engineer...I will make very good use of the many mic positions 

The icing for me that I qualify for the EDU Instructor discount and at $570 for the Pro, it seems well worth it. Bought more RAM and a T7 drive so I am all ready. The only thing holding me back is the long awaited release of NCS by Audio Ollie...but I have to really face the fact that it's probably not going to be released any time soon, and I don't want to miss out on this sale now...


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Nothing is as certain as death, taxes, and another sale in the future 😉

Given BBCSO has been out nearly 12 months now, I think it is pretty much what you see is what you get. Some people want more dynamic layers or new legato scripting and I just don’t see that happening anytime (soon or ever - especially with Covid). So, if you do buy it, buy it for what it is now. Not what you may want it to eventually be.


----------



## jaketanner

ALittleNightMusic said:


> So, if you do buy it, buy it for what it is now. Not what you may want it to eventually be.


excellent advice, and being that SCS still has issues after all these years, perhaps you may be right. I told myself I'd wait until the end of the month anyway and see what comes out in the meantime, and if I am still interested in BBC...I must admit that all the the BBC Pro demos I hear are quite good...a sound that I have yet to hear from other libraries.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

jaketanner said:


> excellent advice, and being that SCS still has issues after all these years, perhaps you may be right. I told myself I'd wait until the end of the month anyway and see what comes out in the meantime, and if I am still interested in BBC...I must admit that all the the BBC Pro demos I hear are quite good...a sound that I have yet to hear from other libraries.



Indeed the demos do sound good. Which means that the library is quite workable if you focus on its strengths and work around the shortcomings (which all libraries have). The same could be said for SCS  Despite our imperfect tools, music is meant to be written - that’s where happiness lies.


----------



## dylanmixer

$570 is an awesome price for this library tbh.


----------



## jaketanner

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Indeed the demos do sound good. Which means that the library is quite workable if you focus on its strengths and work around the shortcomings (which all libraries have). The same could be said for SCS  Despite our imperfect tools, music is meant to be written - that’s where happiness lies.


Absolutely...and I think that BBC really needs to be used as one solid orchestra rather than broken apart in order to really shine. So if/when I get it...that is my intention. Quick work and inspired writing.


----------



## jaketanner

dylanmixer said:


> $570 is an awesome price for this library tbh.


absolutely...and I might imagine that it will be like this during the wishlist sale...it's usually 40% off...


----------



## ProfoundSilence

jaketanner said:


> Damn...LOL okay...no more questions. HA..it's that being burned so many times in the past, that it kills me to see libraries and money just sitting in drives wasted and never used once.


the spitfire catalogue that I've got collecting dust would make a grown man cry. I might pick it up if it goes on like 40% or something at some point just to toy around with the new player.


----------



## jaketanner

ProfoundSilence said:


> the spitfire catalogue that I've got collecting dust would make a grown man cry.


I have 6 that are dust collectors...two of them I used, the others zero.


----------



## mybadmemory

It does sound absolutely beautiful, it just requires more patience and work than the other libraries I have (player, loading, timing inconsistencies). If you’re prepared for that the results are great. For me though, I usually reach for what’s easiest and fastest to work with, which the BBC sadly isn’t. I would have loved for it to be though!


----------



## jaketanner

mybadmemory said:


> It does sound absolutely beautiful, it just requires more patience and work than the other libraries I have (player, loading, timing inconsistencies). If you’re prepared for that the results are great. For me though, I usually reach for what’s easiest and fastest to work with, which the BBC sadly isn’t. I would have loved for it to be though!


I’m really hoping they take notice and really put some effort into making it great.


----------



## CT

Jake, I'm going to make what will probably be a very long and pointless post, for reasons I can't quite fathom. And then you've either got to buy the damn thing, or close the book on it for good. Life's too short man. Get on with some music.

I grew up listening to hours upon hours of orchestral music, in person and recorded. I've been fixated on it from an early age. I've lived inside that world for most of my life. Over the last ten years or so, since I threw myself fully into the life of music, I've been more immersed in it than ever. I have developed such a particular taste, such a specific idea of what I want an orchestra to sound like. I'm quite anal about this stuff.

When I first started using virtual instruments around 2010, it was something I did grudgingly, and I hated knowing that nothing would ever sound the way I wanted it to sound. It didn't necessarily help that, at the time, the only stuff I could afford was frankly not that great by any standard. But I started to listen to what certain people were doing with VIs. I was shocked that some particular music that I was very into (then and now) was actually "fake," and that it had never even occurred to me that it may have been; not necessarily because it was without any of the usual tells, but because it was just handled with such artistry, to the point where none of the seams mattered. And I was slowly blown away and utterly enchanted by what was obviously possible with the very pinnacle of this technology, where it ceased to be anything as prosaic as technology and became something more elegant.

The next frustration came from realizing that these pinnacles were more often than not forged by individuals with their own hard-won resources and precious heaps of time, and not by any of the developers who were actually selling the fruits of their labors. And so my quest became getting as close to the "good stuff" as possible with the stuff that was pretty good, but still not _that_ good. Know what happened instead? I realized that while there were ways in which even the most pricey and premium VIs money could buy would let me down compared to the standard I'd chosen, the WAY in which I used them was just as important to the end result as the sounds themselves, so I decided that was a more fruitful thing to focus on instead of emulating a particular sound with something that would never be able to quite get there. This remains true. Use something well, whatever it is, and the result will be good.

Despite the importance of how you use something, it does of course still matter to some degree what the something is, and I wasted a fair amount of money and time on stuff that wasn't so hot. I understand what you mean about getting "burned." We all have the virtual (some of us have a real one too) wall of shame. And believe me, I do not have the financial cushion to be able to remotely justify the inherent risk that is involved with buying most of this stuff. Compared to possibly most people on here, I own very few virtual instruments and plugins. Unless I'm mistaken, the list of stuff you seem to have is certainly radically longer. But I have obsessively explored all of the options however I can. I know all of these things inside out... among the most useless knowledge a person can have, incidentally. Do you know when I stopped seriously looking for anything more? When I got BBCSO.

It's not because it's perfect. It isn't. I war with its shortcomings every time I use it, but this is the nature of what we do. We are wrangling snapshots of individual pixels into a hopefully pretty picture, and nothing out there is exempt from that truth. But that struggle, for me, is far lessened when using BBCSO compared to anything else. I am working with an orchestra, not samples. There's no large chalkboard behind me with spatialization/reverb schemes anymore. Everyone sits where they're supposed to. Everybody plays together in basically the way I expect, and they play well. I had to learn how to "conduct" again, that is, learn how the patches feel, how they function, how to get them to go where I want. All that took was using the damn thing. I don't have to "mix" because the flautist was slightly drunk in Australia while the American basses obviously couldn't get into a musical groove playing hours of whole notes in a row. It's just a room with a group of people in it, and they play lovely music on priceless instruments with their lifetime of skill. This is fucking amazing, and I'll be damned if I'm going to tell myself that if only there were more dynamic layers recorded maybe I'd actually write some music worthy of such an immense privilege as living in a time when we have something like this living in our computer. I've tested it with some pretty dynamic music. It works. If it doesn't, it isn't because the sound isn't "authentic" or "expressive" enough due to sampling which isn't deep enough. It's because you're not trying hard enough. Really simple. Anyone who can't make BBCSO sound nice and musical over a very broad range needs to seriously consider why that is. This isn't rocket science. If you give it something just half decent (my specialty) to play, and you play it well, you're there.

Now... does this mean that it will be a similar experience for you, or anyone else? I don't know. But I have to chuckle when people criticize this or that about it... because what this library is is so much more than the favored gripes of VI-Control. Especially if you're going to use it in conjunction with everything else under the sun, it's an incredible core to have. You mentioned using it that way, not breaking it up, for "quick work and inspired writing." I think it'll be great for that. It isn't my be-all, end-all, no matter how much good stuff I have to say about it. And who knows what might come along next year, or even next month? Maybe my dream virtual orchestra. But for now, it is the only thing out there that gives me what I'm after. Does that mean anything? Up to you.

Jake. If this thing is enough for me, enough to serve as basically my only in-use orchestral resource (with SCS) in the virtual world, enough for me to feel as comfortable doing the Westworld thing with it as I am my usual floaty stuff, enough for me to stop wondering if that other flashy thing might be better... then I think you might just survive buying it.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Mike T said:


> I don't have to "mix" because the flautist was slightly drunk in Australia...


Now you wait just a second...

"slightly"??


----------



## CT




----------



## jaketanner

Mike T said:


> Jake, I'm going to make what will probably be a very long and pointless post, for reasons I can't quite fathom. And then you've either got to buy the damn thing, or close the book on it for good. Life's too short man. Get on with some music.
> 
> I grew up listening to hours upon hours of orchestral music, in person and recorded. I've been fixated on it from an early age. I've lived inside that world for most of my life. Over the last ten years or so, since I threw myself fully into the life of music, I've been more immersed in it than ever. I have developed such a particular taste, such a specific idea of what I want an orchestra to sound like. I'm quite anal about this stuff.
> 
> When I first started using virtual instruments around 2010, it was something I did grudgingly, and I hated knowing that nothing would ever sound the way I wanted it to sound. It didn't necessarily help that, at the time, the only stuff I could afford was frankly not that great by any standard. But I started to listen to what certain people were doing with VIs. I was shocked that some particular music that I was very into (then and now) was actually "fake," and that it had never even occurred to me that it may have been; not necessarily because it was without any of the usual tells, but because it was just handled with such artistry, to the point where none of the seams mattered. And I was slowly blown away and utterly enchanted by what was obviously possible with the very pinnacle of this technology, where it ceased to be anything as prosaic as technology and became something more elegant.
> 
> The next frustration came from realizing that these pinnacles were more often than not forged by individuals with their own hard-won resources and precious heaps of time, and not by any of the developers who were actually selling the fruits of their labors. And so my quest became getting as close to the "good stuff" as possible with the stuff that was pretty good, but still not _that_ good. Know what happened instead? I realized that while there were ways in which even the most pricey and premium VIs money could buy would let me down compared to the standard I'd chosen, the WAY in which I used them was just as important to the end result as the sounds themselves, so I decided that was a more fruitful thing to focus on instead of emulating a particular sound with something that would never be able to quite get there. This remains true. Use something well, whatever it is, and the result will be good.
> 
> Despite the importance of how you use something, it does of course still matter to some degree what the something is, and I wasted a fair amount of money and time on stuff that wasn't so hot. I understand what you mean about getting "burned." We all have the virtual (some of us have a real one too) wall of shame. And believe me, I do not have the financial cushion to be able to remotely justify the inherent risk that is involved with buying most of this stuff. Compared to possibly most people on here, I own very few virtual instruments and plugins. Unless I'm mistaken, the list of stuff you seem to have is certainly radically longer. But I have obsessively explored all of the options however I can. I know all of these things inside out... among the most useless knowledge a person can have, incidentally. Do you know when I stopped seriously looking for anything more? When I got BBCSO.
> 
> It's not because it's perfect. It isn't. I war with its shortcomings every time I use it, but this is the nature of what we do. We are wrangling snapshots of individual pixels into a hopefully pretty picture, and nothing out there is exempt from that truth. But that struggle, for me, is far lessened when using BBCSO compared to anything else. I am working with an orchestra, not samples. There's no large chalkboard behind me with spatialization/reverb schemes anymore. Everyone sits where they're supposed to. Everybody plays together in basically the way I expect, and they play well. I had to learn how to "conduct" again, that is, learn how the patches feel, how they function, how to get them to go where I want. All that took was using the damn thing. I don't have to "mix" because the flautist was slightly drunk in Australia while the American basses obviously couldn't get into a musical groove playing hours of whole notes in a row. It's just a room with a group of people in it, and they play lovely music on priceless instruments with their lifetime of skill. This is fucking amazing, and I'll be damned if I'm going to tell myself that if only there were more dynamic layers recorded maybe I'd actually write some music worthy of such an immense privilege as living in a time when we have something like this living in our computer. I've tested it with some pretty dynamic music. It works. If it doesn't, it isn't because the sound isn't "authentic" or "expressive" enough due to sampling which isn't deep enough. It's because you're not trying hard enough. Really simple. Anyone who can't make BBCSO sound nice and musical over a very broad range needs to seriously consider why that is. This isn't rocket science. If you give it something just half decent (my specialty) to play, and you play it well, you're there.
> 
> Now... does this mean that it will be a similar experience for you, or anyone else? I don't know. But I have to chuckle when people criticize this or that about it... because what this library is is so much more than the favored gripes of VI-Control. Especially if you're going to use it in conjunction with everything else under the sun, it's an incredible core to have. You mentioned using it that way, not breaking it up, for "quick work and inspired writing." I think it'll be great for that. It isn't my be-all, end-all, no matter how much good stuff I have to say about it. And who knows what might come along next year, or even next month? Maybe my dream virtual orchestra. But for now, it is the only thing out there that gives me what I'm after. Does that mean anything? Up to you.
> 
> Jake. If this thing is enough for me, enough to serve as basically my only in-use orchestral resource (with SCS) in the virtual world, enough for me to feel as comfortable doing the Westworld thing with it as I am my usual floaty stuff, enough for me to stop wondering if that other flashy thing might be better... then I think you might just survive buying it.


Wow...certainly appreciate you taking the time to write all that. My ancestry is also classical music. My grandfather was a coach and conductor for La Scala in Miami and the Met opera house in NY. So I’ve listened to a few classical pieces in my time. Lol. Also studied classical piano so I am equally as picky. 

I agree with everything you said. It’s what we do with it that matters. To paraphrase Mike Verta...if you orchestrate and play it like a musician, it’s going to sound more real with not so great samples, than if you used the best of the best and have no idea what a live orchestra is supposed to sound like. Something along those lines and it makes total sense.

I think you know I’m getting it now...lol. I do want that sound of one orchestra in the same room without having to struggle to place libraries from different stages together.It’s not always the ambience that’s the problem but the color and tone of the library. And BBC has a uniform tone that just works. Despite the flaws, I agree that it can be a great addition.
Thanks again for taking the time to write that. I already have the piece in mind to use it on.


----------



## muk

Mike, while I get where you are coming from, my mileage varies greatly. In my experience, the BBCSO has some significant strengths. The main one is the actual sound. It's great musicians, playing in a great hall, and recorded fantastically well. And as soon as you play a few instruments together, it really shows. The recordings are just fabulous, preserving the width and depth of the room like no other sample library I have heard. What's there is amazingly good.

It's precisely because of that that I'd wish there was more of it, and that a little more care had gone into the concept and programming.



Mike T said:


> It works. If it doesn't, it isn't because the sound isn't "authentic" or "expressive" enough due to sampling which isn't deep enough. It's because you're not trying hard enough. Really simple.



I agree with the sentiment behind it - which is don't fuss about your tools so much, instead learn them and use them. But the actual statement? I think it is wrong. Completely. It's not that the tool is good enough, and you aren't. No. There simply are things - and quite a few at that, in my opinion - that BBCSO can not do. No matter how hard you try. These instruments don't have enough velocity layers. It's audible as soon as you write a somewhat exposed part. And they are not the most playable and expressive, because the programming is sloppy. Look at the volume snapshot of the crescendo example I posted in the other thread. It's not smooth. Not at all. If you start playing with these instruments, you'll immediately feel it. Can you compensate for it in your playing and programming? Yes, to a certain degree. But just a little more care in the programming, and these samples would be so much more playable and expressive. Alas. Don't expect that to ever happen. I don't even expect the extended legato articulation to be delivered for the instrument that still are missing it.

Here is a little example. Could I create this clarinet part with BBCSO?









Andante for clarinet and strings looser pizz.mp3 | Powered by Box







app.box.com





I shudder to think of it. After the first two notes I would despair. It's just not possible. The result would never be anything I would be remotely satisfied with. And not for lack of trying. There is simply not enough content (articulations and velocity layers both), nor have the samples that are there received all the loving care and attention that they'd deserve when they were programmed. In my opinion, that is.

In short, the BBCSO clarinet - while having a nicer tone - simply does not have the sample pool nor the expressiveness to pull off a solo part. And the same goes for almost all instruments in BBCSO in my opinion. I think that BBCSO is one of the best sample libraries you can buy to create orchestral backgrounds. For exposed parts, contrary to Mike I don't think that this library does very well.

For the piece above, had I created it with solely BBCSO, the clarinet part would sound way worse. It wouldn't work at all. The background however, I think would actually sound quite a bit nicer. That's my assessment of the BBCSO library.

So can you create fantastic mockups with BBCSO? Absolutely yes, no doubt about it. Can it mockup everything you throw at it with satisfying results? Not even close.

I think you will be most happy with the purchase if you take this library for what it is. A fantastically well recorded library for background parts. For solistic parts of some complexity/espressiveness, other libraries will do much better in my opinion. And that's how I use it. I used to use VSL SE for background parts. It's consistent and quick to work with. Now that I am using BBCSO for that, to my ears these parts sound more natural and cohesive. It creates a nice sense of space and beautiful timbre. For solistic passages I don't even consider using BBCSO.


----------



## easyrider

muk said:


> I think you will be most happy with the purchase if you take this library for what it is. A fantastically well recorded library for background parts. For solistic parts of some complexity/espressiveness, other libraries will do much better in my opinion. And that's how I use it. I used to use VSL SE for background parts. It's consistent and quick to work with. Now that I am using BBCSO for that, to my ears these parts sound more natural and cohesive. It creates a nice sense of space and beautiful timbre. For solistic passages I don't even consider using BBCSO.



What do you use for the solo stuff?


----------



## jaketanner

muk said:


> I think that BBCSO is one of the best sample libraries you can buy to create orchestral backgrounds. For exposed parts, contrary to Mike I don't think that this library does very well.


For exposed parts adding a third party library will not kill the cohesiveness. I have the 8DIO Claire series and they sound fantastic for expressive solo parts within an orchestra...besides, in movie scoring, how often do we really need to mockup a realistic solo that won't later get replaced? For things like that I am not concerned...the majority of writing is all background anyway. For me personally, I will use BBC for what it's meant for...and like you mentioned, it all works seamlessly together and the overall tone is excellent. I also have Century Brass for solo exposed parts that I think will blend in nicely...if there are any exposed pitfalls, I think I am covered..if that is the only main issue with this library, then it's a done deal for me.

I've been going insane over the ups and downs of this and can't for the life of me understand why SF doesn't hire or spend more time getting a killer scripting for this. But only time will tell here.


----------



## CT

muk said:


> I shudder to think of it. After the first two notes I would despair. It's just not possible.



Frankly, I don't buy it. Some of the re-tonguing would require a soft touch, and the lack of performance legato means you'd have to break it up between a few different articulations, but this is not nearly as demanding a part as I expected to be deemed "not possible." If I have some time later on I might give it a try, but I'm honestly a little tired of acting as the ambassador for this thing and demonstrating whether or not it holds up every time someone declares something impossible or posts a poorly handled example of it stumbling. Everybody just buy/use whatever the heck you want.


----------



## dcoscina

I keep coming back to BBCSO time and time again. I love the organic sound of it. Yes, sometimes I need to add or switch out the odd instrument (a6 horns from SSB for more portent) but generally, it does what I want it to do. And I love the strings. They sound great and respond well to my playing.


----------



## muk

easyrider said:


> What do you use for the solo stuff?



In the example above VSL Woodwinds. I also use Cinematic Studio Brass or Hollywood Brass. For solo strings I'd use Cinematic Studio Solo Strings. For the strings I am using a wide variety of libraries: Cinematic Studio Strings, Light & Sound Chamber Strings and BBCSO are the ones I probably use most often.


----------



## jonnybutter

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Nothing is as certain as death, taxes, and another sale in the future 😉
> 
> Given BBCSO has been out nearly 12 months now, I think it is pretty much what you see is what you get. Some people want more dynamic layers or new legato scripting and I just don’t see that happening anytime (soon or ever - especially with Covid). So, if you do buy it, buy it for what it is now. Not what you may want it to eventually be.



It might be my last Spitfire product then. I'm with Jake - there are programming problems AFAIC, and if they aren't going to get fixes, and I can't resell....I'm not taking a chance on Spitfire again. I don't love the BBCSO Core strings, or the WWs or the brass! There are instruments that are good, but I can't point to a section I love. Of course they are well recorded/played, but I just don't find it all very playable - like the string legatos for example! And there's quirkiness I don't love. 1st and 2nd violins should be different players/sound, but maybe not different programming, eh? It's as if Spitfire is telling me I'm writing the wrong music! I don't buy VIs to herd me into writing what the software wants me to write (unless I do).

I know part of the solution would be to buy into PRO from Core, but: no, not getting in deeper. Glad others like it.


----------



## jaketanner

jonnybutter said:


> It might be my last Spitfire product then. I'm with Jake - there are programming problems AFAIC, and if they aren't going to get fixes, and I can't resell....I'm not taking a chance on Spitfire again. I don't love the BBCSO Core strings, or the WWs or the brass! There are instruments that are good, but I can't point to a section I love. Of course they are well recorded/played, but I just don't find it all very playable - like the string legatos for example! And there's quirkiness I don't love. 1st and 2nd violins should be different players/sound, but maybe not different programming, eh? It's as if Spitfire is telling me I'm writing the wrong music! I don't buy VIs to herd me into writing what the software wants me to write (unless I do).
> 
> I know part of the solution would be to buy into PRO from Core, but: no, not getting in deeper. Glad others like it.


I wish SF was more active on this forum...VSl is VERY active and responsive...they're about as big as SF I imagine, and they have a dedicated person just fielding questions from us here all day long it seems...very very helpful and offers solutions. Also they take note what the users want... 

@Spitfire Team @SpitfireSupport @paulthomson ...it seems that we all love the product to some degree but wish there was some assurance that the major issues that owners have with BBC will be addressed. I am hoping that we can receive some response that you guys are working on updates. Thank you.


----------



## John R Wilson

muk said:


> Mike, while I get where you are coming from, my mileage varies greatly. In my experience, the BBCSO has some significant strengths. The main one is the actual sound. It's great musicians, playing in a great hall, and recorded fantastically well. And as soon as you play a few instruments together, it really shows. The recordings are just fabulous, preserving the width and depth of the room like no other sample library I have heard. What's there is amazingly good.
> 
> It's precisely because of that that I'd wish there was more of it, and that a little more care had gone into the concept and programming.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with the sentiment behind it - which is don't fuss about your tools so much, instead learn them and use them. But the actual statement? I think it is wrong. Completely. It's not that the tool is good enough, and you aren't. No. There simply are things - and quite a few at that, in my opinion - that BBCSO can not do. No matter how hard you try. These instruments don't have enough velocity layers. It's audible as soon as you write a somewhat exposed part. And they are not the most playable and expressive, because the programming is sloppy. Look at the volume snapshot of the crescendo example I posted in the other thread. It's not smooth. Not at all. If you start playing with these instruments, you'll immediately feel it. Can you compensate for it in your playing and programming? Yes, to a certain degree. But just a little more care in the programming, and these samples would be so much more playable and expressive. Alas. Don't expect that to ever happen. I don't even expect the extended legato articulation to be delivered for the instrument that still are missing it.
> 
> Here is a little example. Could I create this clarinet part with BBCSO?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andante for clarinet and strings looser pizz.mp3 | Powered by Box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> app.box.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I shudder to think of it. After the first two notes I would despair. It's just not possible. The result would never be anything I would be remotely satisfied with. And not for lack of trying. There is simply not enough content (articulations and velocity layers both), nor have the samples that are there received all the loving care and attention that they'd deserve when they were programmed. In my opinion, that is.
> 
> In short, the BBCSO clarinet - while having a nicer tone - simply does not have the sample pool nor the expressiveness to pull off a solo part. And the same goes for almost all instruments in BBCSO in my opinion. I think that BBCSO is one of the best sample libraries you can buy to create orchestral backgrounds. For exposed parts, contrary to Mike I don't think that this library does very well.
> 
> For the piece above, had I created it with solely BBCSO, the clarinet part would sound way worse. It wouldn't work at all. The background however, I think would actually sound quite a bit nicer. That's my assessment of the BBCSO library.
> 
> So can you create fantastic mockups with BBCSO? Absolutely yes, no doubt about it. Can it mockup everything you throw at it with satisfying results? Not even close.
> 
> I think you will be most happy with the purchase if you take this library for what it is. A fantastically well recorded library for background parts. For solistic parts of some complexity/espressiveness, other libraries will do much better in my opinion. And that's how I use it. I used to use VSL SE for background parts. It's consistent and quick to work with. Now that I am using BBCSO for that, to my ears these parts sound more natural and cohesive. It creates a nice sense of space and beautiful timbre. For solistic passages I don't even consider using BBCSO.




I feel similar. It's fantastically recorded and has a brilliant tone. If spitfire could just spend some time improving its programming it would be a great library. Furthermore, some things could be quite easily improved upon. For example, some of the woodwinds and brass come with two version of legatos, one the performance type and the other a normal legato patch which I find much more smoother and better in many cases, while the performance ones can be much more bumpy and not the best for many types of parts. But for the strings you only get the Legato performance type.


----------



## jonnybutter

jaketanner said:


> I wish SF was more active on this forum...VSl is VERY active and responsive...they're about as big as SF I imagine, and they have a dedicated person just fielding questions from us here all day long it seems...very very helpful and offers solutions. Also they take note what the users want...
> 
> @Spitfire Team @SpitfireSupport @paulthomson ...it seems that we all love the product to some degree but wish there was some assurance that the major issues that owners have with BBC will be addressed. I am hoping that we can receive some response that you guys are working on updates. Thank you.



Yes, I don't want to not like it! I bought it because I wanted to like it! I expect more playable string legatos at least. Even after spending a small eternity editing it still doesn't sound great. arg.

I see others saying they use it more for backgrounds. I can see that. But I wouldn't have bought it knowing that was its strength. Oh well.


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## jaketanner

jonnybutter said:


> Yes, I don't want to not like it! I bought it because I wanted to like it! I expect more playable string legatos at least. Even after spending a small eternity editing it still doesn't sound great. arg.
> 
> I see others saying they use it more for backgrounds. I can see that. But I wouldn't have bought it knowing that was its strength. Oh well.


I hear some killer mockups with it though...doesn't seem that it needs to be in the background at all...especially not the strings. Have you listened to any of Mattia Chiappa's stuff? He uses it as his primary and sounds excellent.


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## John R Wilson

jonnybutter said:


> Yes, I don't want to not like it! I bought it because I wanted to like it! I expect more playable string legatos at least. Even after spending a small eternity editing it still doesn't sound great. arg.
> 
> I see others saying they use it more for backgrounds. I can see that. But I wouldn't have bought it knowing that was its strength. Oh well.



The issue with the string legatos could probably be improved upon if they just provided the other type of legato without the Spic/Stac overlays. I like the performance legato with the overlays and they are great for playing in faster lines and certain parts but it would be nice to also have the option to remove this and have just a legato patch without the overlays.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> The issue with the string legatos could probably be improved upon if they just provided the other type of legato without the Spic/Stac overlays.


why is that an issue? I have their other libraries that do that, and it's a velocity issue...so if you play lightly or set your controller to not respond to velocity for the legato passages, you should never trigger the shorts...just the legato. Or is this something different? I don't have the library yet, but just going nby their other libraries.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> why is that an issue? I have their other libraries that do that, and it's a velocity issue...so if you play lightly or set your controller to not respond to velocity for the legato passages, you should never trigger the shorts...just the legato. Or is this something different? I don't have the library yet, but just going nby their other libraries.



Even when you set the velocities lower for the legato patches, I have found that the performance type of legatos in the BBCSO are more bumpy and less smooth. Good for some things and nice to have but would be nice to have the option for legatos without this.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Even when you set the velocities lower for the legato patches, I have found that the performance type of legatos in the BBCSO are more bumpy and less smooth.


I see. With thei other libraries there is a choice for the performance Legato In BBC there isn’t. Is that the problem?


----------



## jonnybutter

John R Wilson said:


> The issue with the string legatos could probably be improved upon if they just provided the other type of legato without the Spic/Stac overlays.



Exactly. I can't see why it would be such a big problem to fix. I could make my own spiccato overlay if that's what I wanted! I am not a master MIDI person, but also not a beginner, and I can't make the legato sound good, or art switch my way to a good performance either.


----------



## jonnybutter

jaketanner said:


> I see. With thei other libraries there is a choice for the performance Legato In BBC there isn’t. Is that the problem?



I think they probably wanted something with very little delay (any true legato will have delay) so they put some sort of stacatto/spicatto overlay to give you that percussive element, to define the pulse. I'm sure the idea was to make it more playable! But it kind of backfires since you can't get rid of it. I assumed that you would be able to crank up tightness to perform, then take it off and move the MIDI back so it's in time. But you are stuck with the little plucking sound of the overlay when playing detached notes. It just sounds weird to me.


----------



## John R Wilson

jonnybutter said:


> Exactly. I can't see why it would be such a big problem to fix. I could make my own spiccato overlay if that's what I wanted! I am not a master MIDI person, but also not a beginner, and I can't make the legato sound good, or art switch my way to a good performance either.



I agree with this. I have had issues in this regards. Its similar with the woodwinds extended performance type legatos with the Spic/Stac overlays they react similar to the strings legatos and can be problematic with some legato lines but this isn't too much of an issue with the woodwinds as theirs the option for the normal legato type without the overlays.


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## dzilizzi

Maybe they need a $2000 version that is more pro than the "Pro" version. But then everyone would complain about the price. There is never going to be a perfect library. 

Though I do remember the SA guys saying they had hours more of recordings from these sessions that didn't get used. Not sure if they weren't usable or if they will eventually add them or make an extended version. I'm sure COVID has not helped with this.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I'm curious what are the issues folks are having that are so problematic it renders the library utterly unusable? I just played with the legato patch for Violins 1 and it sounds quite useable to me. Better than some other libraries that I have that folks like to rave about. Quite a bit smoother than a library like say Nucleus or Areia. Horses for courses I suppose.

Pretty sure the Spitfire folks are fairly involved in the Commercial threads. The Sample Talk forum has had a tendency of getting very vitriolic when it comes to Spitfire, so no surprise they don't wade it much here.

By the way, I believe Andy Blaney programs Spitfire's legatos.


----------



## AndyP

I find it hard to use BBCSO. Sooner or later I end up back with HO or VSL, since I have all the libraries of AI and Cinesamples with them too. 
As nice as the BBC library sounds, especially the already mentioned legato patches and partly also the missing or clearly jumping layers cloud my pleasure. I want to have fun composing ... that's what I miss here.

Being able to choose from 4 envelopes is nice, but stupid if I can't adjust them further. AI did it right, so I imagine a library in terms of handling and the possibilities to influence the sound. For me this is much more like a gamechanger.

If I had been in Spitfire's place to produce a real gamechanger, I would have spent more time creating the library, scripting and possibilities to shape the sound behavior.
So it looks half cooked to me, neither fish nor meat.

The price. Well, I think the intro/sale price is halfway okay. It's not that you can't use the library (as long as there are no license or repair functions pending).
I want to take the SSD and just plug it into another computer without getting problems.

And I stick to my opinion that a library with 20 mic positions is not up to date if certain basics are neglected.
Maybe I will dedicate more time to the library in the near future, at the moment I prefer to work with others.


----------



## jonnybutter

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I'm curious what are the issues folks are having that are so problematic it renders the library utterly unusable? I just played with the legato patch for Violins 1 and it sounds quite useable to me. Better than some other libraries that I have that folks like to rave about. Quite a bit smoother than a library like say Nucleus or Areia. Horses for courses I suppose.
> 
> Pretty sure the Spitfire folks are fairly involved in the Commercial threads. The Sample Talk forum has had a tendency of getting very vitriolic when it comes to Spitfire, so no surprise they don't wade it much here.
> 
> By the way, I believe Andy Blaney programs Spitfire's legatos.



Can't speak for others obviously but I don't think it's 'utterly unusable'. It just doesn't really improve on anything I already have, and I'll bet I'm not alone in that. I got it because it was on sale and I assumed there would be great programming and playability, since it's new. I'm disappointed that this doesn't seem to be the case, at least so far


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

jonnybutter said:


> Can't speak for others obviously but I don't think it's 'utterly unusable'. It just doesn't really improve on anything I already have, and I'll bet I'm not alone in that. I got it because it was on sale and I assumed there would be great programming and playability, since it's new. I'm disappointed that this doesn't seem to be the case, at least so far



I guess "great programming and playability" could be subjective, but if you have audio examples of your issues, might I suggest emailing Spitfire directly? I found an issue with Symphonic Strings and they were very good about trying to debug it and then confirming they had logged it as an issue on their end for the team to address.


----------



## jaketanner

jonnybutter said:


> I think they probably wanted something with very little delay (any true legato will have delay) so they put some sort of stacatto/spicatto overlay to give you that percussive element, to define the pulse. I'm sure the idea was to make it more playable! But it kind of backfires since you can't get rid of it. I assumed that you would be able to crank up tightness to perform, then take it off and move the MIDI back so it's in time. But you are stuck with the little plucking sound of the overlay when playing detached notes. It just sounds weird to me.


oh wow.. this I did not know. I assumed it was like their other performance legato, where it's based off velocity...so it's an actual overlay, not a playable "performance" patch as in SCS or SSS?


----------



## jaketanner

dzilizzi said:


> Maybe they need a $2000 version that is more pro than the "Pro" version. But then everyone would complain about the price.


Well considering you get the entire orchestra for $2k, that is probably still a good deal. The issue would be that you had to spend it, even if you don't use some instruments. Take VSL for instance...Synchron Strings 1 is $650 alone and the Synchronized Woodwinds is about $375...their Dimension brass is over $800 and has multiple volumes...so when considering that...all of a sudden $2k doesn't seem so bad. LOL Although you do get stellar programming and a solid GUI with the ability to resell...oh well.. LOL


----------



## giwro

So far I’ve enjoyed BBCSO - I only have Core, and I’ve just been using it in Dorico 3.5 (haven’t plunged into further and more precise tweaking in a DAW much yet)
Strings only: http://www.evensongmusic.net/?page_id=3380
I did work on another piece with winds, brass and percussion... not quite done yet.

For me, the answer to “can I get it to sound like I want” is... “probably”

I remember back in the day when I was trying to do faux-orchestration with a Casio keyboard and a Yamaha rack-mount synth. I spent HOURS massaging the sounds, and forcing the tools to do stuff they weren’t really suited for. To this day, those recordings are some of my favorites... do they sound “realistic”? No, but they’re expressive, and they sound damn fine considering what I was working with. I think now it comes down to time - I don’t have as much as I did when I was in my mid-20s.... sometimes I just want it to be done! Having said that, I think that (at least for me) BBCSO was a good investment.


----------



## styledelk

giwro said:


> So far I’ve enjoyed BBCSO - I only have Core, and I’ve just been using it in Dorico 3.5 (haven’t plunged into further and more precise tweaking in a DAW much yet)
> Strings only: http://www.evensongmusic.net/?page_id=3380
> I did work on another piece with winds, brass and percussion... not quite done yet.
> 
> For me, the answer to “can I get it to sound like I want” is... “probably”
> 
> I remember back in the day when I was trying to do faux-orchestration with a Casio keyboard and a Yamaha rack-mount synth. I spent HOURS massaging the sounds, and forcing the tools to do stuff they weren’t really suited for. To this day, those recordings are some of my favorites... do they sound “realistic”? No, but they’re expressive, and they sound damn fine considering what I was working with. I think now it comes down to time - I don’t have as much as I did when I was in my mid-20s.... sometimes I just want it to be done! Having said that, I think that (at least for me) BBCSO was a good investment.



This sounds beautiful!


----------



## dcoscina

Something I sketched out today using BBCSO Core. Did cheat and add JXL a6 horns as I needed something a little more portentous in the opening. I treated this with QL SPACES 1 Scoring Hall reverb.


----------



## BennyHendel

Is nobody mentioning the fact that the vibrato slider isn't a slider at all, but just a crap ton of vibrato that kicks in when you dial it past 50%?


or the fact that the Tightness slider doesn't do anything


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

BennyHendel said:


> Is nobody mentioning the fact that the vibrato slider isn't a slider at all, but just a crap ton of vibrato that kicks in when you dial it past 50%?
> 
> 
> or the fact that the Tightness slider doesn't do anything



The tightness slider should be tightening up the starts of the shorts. Does that for me.

As for the vibrato, it isn’t emulated vibrato but recorded I believe. Even their other libraries have it more as a toggle (though they recorded it at I believe 2 different intensities in Symphonic Strings plus NV). It does crossfade though, even in BBCSO.


----------



## jaketanner

ALittleNightMusic said:


> The tightness slider should be tightening up the starts of the shorts. Does that for me.
> 
> As for the vibrato, it isn’t emulated vibrato but recorded I believe. Even their other libraries have it more as a toggle (though they recorded it at I believe 2 different intensities in Symphonic Strings plus NV). It does crossfade though, even in BBCSO.


yes, I've noticed from demos and other libraries that in softer dynamics, the vibrato is not as intense as it is when pushed beyond 50% dynamic...whatever layer that is in BBC...Layer 2 I believe.. LOL

And I think I'd rather have true vibrato on/off than simulated and sounds sort of fake. I just hate when vibrato starts at the very second a note is played rather than a slight build up...especially in the WWs...not sure if this is the case with BBC.


----------



## dylanmixer

Imo the vibrato switch hasn't been as noticeable as you would think. I agree that the real vibrato samples sound far better than fake that you can control more.


----------



## jonnybutter

jaketanner said:


> oh wow.. this I did not know. I assumed it was like their other performance legato, where it's based off velocity...so it's an actual overlay, not a playable "performance" patch as in SCS or SSS?



It's based on velocity but you can't get rid of it. It's a pluck/jab on detache. If there's a way to do it, someone tell me! This points out another problem with this library: insufficient manual/tutorial. And finding stuff on the SA site is often not easy - I had to go through video to find the URL to download the templates (which are very nice indeed). Why?

I know SA makes good stuff and I don't wish to impugn them. But I feel a *little* burned by BBCSO core and by an Albion I bought before that. Maybe they just aren't for me. I notice lots of people like their libraries...


----------



## yiph2

jonnybutter said:


> It's based on velocity but you can't get rid of it. It's a pluck/jab on detache. If there's a way to do it, someone tell me! This points out another problem with this library: no manual/tutorial other than the walkthrough (again, if I'm wrong, please tell me!). This stuff needs to either be so obvious that it doesn't need a manual or it needs to have one. And finding stuff on the SA site is often not easy - I had to go through video to find the URL to download the templates (which are very nice indeed). Why?
> 
> I know SA makes good stuff and I don't wish to impugn them. But I feel a *little* burned by BBCSO core and by an Albion I bought before that. Maybe they just aren't for me. I notice lots of people like their libraries...


There is a manual on the Spitfire site on the page of the product


----------



## Alex Fraser

dcoscina said:


> Something I sketched out today using BBCSO Core. Did cheat and add JXL a6 horns as I needed something a little more portentous in the opening. I treated this with QL SPACES 1 Scoring Hall reverb.



Very nice. That was one of those "Oooh, I need to listen to this on proper speakers" moments. 👍


----------



## José Herring

dcoscina said:


> Something I sketched out today using BBCSO Core. Did cheat and add JXL a6 horns as I needed something a little more portentous in the opening. I treated this with QL SPACES 1 Scoring Hall reverb.



Love the harmonies that start around :23. 

Do you find that the BBCSO percussion holds up well to other libraries in general? 

I like the sound of BBCSO but the programming is hit or miss from what I hear. Your example sound good but some others I'm like wow, the library has some glaring flaws. But, it would be worth it to me if the percussion was a real contender.


----------



## jonnybutter

BennyHendel said:


> Is nobody mentioning the fact that the vibrato slider isn't a slider at all, but just a crap ton of vibrato that kicks in when you dial it past 50%?
> 
> 
> or the fact that the Tightness slider doesn't do anything





yiph2 said:


> There is a manual on the Spitfire site on the page of the product



Yes, my mistake. I did download that, but it wasn't much help. I'm going to edit my previous post so people don't read it and think there is no manual at all.


----------



## yiph2

Also I don't think there is spiccato overlay, if you play short then the spiccato will play, but if you play longer notes it will be legato. Check this video:


----------



## Vik

jaketanner said:


> excellent advice, and being that SCS still has issues after all these years, perhaps you may be right.


Did you see this thread, Jake? https://vi-control.net/community/threads/poll-what-are-your-favourite-string-libraries.60460/page-10
I have yet to come across a library that is free from issues, but it seems that the general opinion here is (or was back then) that SCS and CSS were the two libraries that had the most happy users. I also like them both, but while I like the tone of BBS a lot, I'm not sure if it' the perfect library for someone who looks for more dynamic layers or the best available legato out there. I have heard BBC legato which was very convincing, but I don't own the library so I have never checked it out properly.


jaketanner said:


> can't for the life of me understand why SF doesn't hire or spend more time getting a killer scripting for this.


Well, some of their libraries have good legato/portamento scripting IMO, while others are so-so. For a moderately priced library – which BBC after all is (compared with some of the major string libs out there) – I wouldn't expect more than what BBC already delivers. Agree with Myk there. Plus - you're getting Nashville Chamber Strings anyway, aren't you?


----------



## jonnybutter

yiph2 said:


> Also I don't think there is spiccato overlay, if you play short then the spiccato will play, but if you play longer notes it will be legato. Check this video:




Do you have the library? It's not just short - if you play detache the spicatto (or whatever it is) plays. Try playing anything detache on 1st or 2nd violins. It doesn't sound good to me. It sounds like "PRONG!" You really have to articulation switch, the volumes are all over the place - a lot of programming. The legato on violas sounds better, btw. Maybe it just works better in range.

I roll my eyes at the ideology hanging around here that suggests we composers owe some sort of fealty to these companies, who can do no wrong, and all shortcomings must always be ours - we aren't suffering enough in the programming stage, we are writing the wrong music, etc. I really disagree with all that. I want better tools, better programming. Look at what Virharmonc achieved, for example!

I don't think it's terribly ambitious to make an orchestral library that is great for realizing a very small realm of musical possibilities - especially cinematic musical cliches (you know the ones I mean). Spitfire does that a little better than most - gorgeous sound but the same old music is implied. LASS is ancient (in VI time), for example, but their legatos are much more useable. CSS too. *€300-400 is a reasonable price for BBCSO Core if what you need is that sound rather than other flexibility. *Doesn't work for me, and I won't be dropping cash on other Spitfire libraries. Their MO seems designed to either draw you in more deeply or to push you away. That's certainly valid, but I am pushed away. I'm sure they'll survive!


----------



## yiph2

jonnybutter said:


> Do you have the library? It's not just short - if you play detache the spicatto (or whatever it is) plays. Try playing anything detache on 1st or 2nd violins. It doesn't sound good to me. It sounds like "PRONG!" You really have to articulation switch, the volumes are all over the place - a lot of programming. The legato on violas sounds better, btw. Maybe it just works better in range.



But you are not supposed to play detache... that patch is just for legatos and spiccatos... (unless I'm getting confused here about what you are trying to do) Anyways, I don't have BBCSO but I do have SSS, and apparently the BBCSO legato patch functions like the performance legato. As far as I know BBCSO doesn't have detache transitions, only fingered (SSS has bowed transitions)



jonnybutter said:


> I roll my eyes at the ideology hanging around here that suggests we composers owe some sort of fealty to these companies, who can do no wrong, and all shortcomings must always be ours - we aren't suffering enough in the programming stage, we are writing the wrong music, etc. I really disagree with all that. I want better tools, better programming. Look at what Virharmonc achieved, for example!



I never said Spitfire did nothing wrong... Spitfire instruments definitely have a lot of issues (especially in quality control)


----------



## jonnybutter

yiph2 said:


> But you are not supposed to play detache... that patch is just for legatos and spiccatos...



The legato patch is just for legato and..spiccato? Hmm. I think they were trying to make it more playable by giving you the spiccato attack but it sounds like an overlay and you can't get rid of it or blend it. It's not inconceivable that, on a modern VI, you could play detached or legato without art. switching - that's what they were going for, after all, with the overlay, right? It's just kind of botched. Fine if they plan to fix it, but they probably don't.


----------



## yiph2

jonnybutter said:


> The legato patch is just for legato and..spiccato? Hmm. I think they were trying to make it more playable by giving you the spiccato attack but it sounds like an overlay and you can't get rid of it or blend it. It's not inconceivable that, on a modern VI, you could play detached or legato without art. switching - that's what they were going for, after all, with the overlay, right? It's just kind of botched. Fine if they plan to fix it, but they probably don't.


Yea, it's just legato and spiccato, pretty normal. Also I don't think that a lot of string libraries have detaches on them. Only a very few even have performance legato. And I don't think the spiccato is an overlay (I could be wrong), but you could use the mod wheel to make the attack softer


----------



## dcoscina

want the best strings with the most articulations, seamless legato transitions, And genuine detache? Hire a real string group. But make sure they are pro because semi pro strings in my real world experience can have tuning issues..to say the least.....


----------



## jaketanner

Vik said:


> Did you see this thread, Jake? https://vi-control.net/community/threads/poll-what-are-your-favourite-string-libraries.60460/page-10
> I have yet to come across a library that is free from issues, but it seems that the general opinion here is (or was back then) that SCS and CSS were the two libraries that had the most happy users. I also like them both, but while I like the tone of BBS a lot, I'm not sure if it' the perfect library for someone who looks for more dynamic layers or the best available legato out there. I have heard BBC legato which was very convincing, but I don't own the library so I have never checked it out properly.
> 
> Well, some of their libraries have good legato/portamento scripting IMO, while others are so-so. For a moderately priced library – which BBC after all is (compared with some of the major string libs out there) – I wouldn't expect more than what BBC already delivers. Agree with Myk there. Plus - you're getting Nashville Chamber Strings anyway, aren't you?


Lol. NCS is probably not coming out. I’m tired of waiting. But if I get BBC, no I won’t get NCS any time soon. Too many libraries. Lol


----------



## jonnybutter

yiph2 said:


> Yea, it's just legato and spiccato, pretty normal. Also I don't think that a lot of string libraries have detaches on them. Only a very few even have performance legato. And I don't think the spiccato is an overlay (I could be wrong), but you could use the mod wheel to make the attack softer



When you get the library you can give us a report. I feel bad now doing all this bitching, but I found it disappointing. I'm done. cheers


----------



## John R Wilson

yiph2 said:


> Yea, it's just legato and spiccato, pretty normal. Also I don't think that a lot of string libraries have detaches on them. Only a very few even have performance legato. And I don't think the spiccato is an overlay (I could be wrong), but you could use the mod wheel to make the attack softer



I believe that it is an overlayed spic. I did email spitfire support about this. They recommended Keyswitching to the long technique when you do not require a sharp attack/need a lower attack on Legato melodic lines!


----------



## yiph2

John R Wilson said:


> I believe that it is an overlayed spic. I did email spitfire support about this. They recommended Keyswitching to the long technique when you do not require a sharp attack/need a lower attack on Legato melodic lines!


Ah, then I guess other performance legatos are also overlays as well...


jonnybutter said:


> When you get the library you can give us a report. I feel bad now doing all this bitching, but I found it disappointing. I'm done. cheers


You have all the right to be bitching, if there are any problems, you should complain, it's the only way Spitfire would fix it


----------



## dcoscina

So I remixed my Bat little piece. I also added another BBCSO but from Pro which is an ode to Prokofiev (the short little idea I had which I'm going to expand upon.... in StaffPad! LOL)


----------



## dylanmixer

I don't hear the spic overlay at all on the string patches. The legato to me sounds gorgeous.


----------



## jaketanner

dcoscina said:


> But make sure they are pro because semi pro strings in my real world experience can have tuning issues..to say the least.....


There are tuning issues with SF strings all the time too...hope they used pro players..  It's going to happen from time to time, the issue is to NOT leave it out of tune in a library...


----------



## jaketanner

Vik said:


> Did you see this thread, Jake? https://vi-control.net/community/threads/poll-what-are-your-favourite-string-libraries.60460/page-10


I am surprised that Con Moto ranked low..I would have to imagine that it's because most people don't have it...same with Strezov...it's so damn expensive that its not going to get high marks, where CSS is very affordable and most of us have it...has high marks.


----------



## jonnybutter

John R Wilson said:


> I believe that it is an overlayed spic. I did email spitfire support about this. They recommended Keyswitching to the long technique when you do not require a sharp attack/need a lower attack on Legato melodic lines!



Thanks for sharing that John. Art switching doesn't really solve the problem, does it? .

Remember in the walkthrough video (the one with the resolution switching metaphor)? The legato is said to be very 'nimble' (I believe that was the word he used). I didn't hear the overlay DOINK at the time, but working with the library I do of course, and find that claim to not quite true. You can play fast because there's the spicc overlay, but I wouldn't call it a nimble legato. I appreciate that they tried, and for some things it's going to work fine. But it's disappointing for me.


----------



## jonnybutter

yiph2 said:


> Ah, then I guess other performance legatos are also overlays as well...
> 
> You have all the right to be bitching, if there are any problems, you should complain, it's the only way Spitfire would fix it



I feel bad about bitching because it's boring for everyone, including me!


----------



## Vik

jaketanner said:


> I am surprised that Con Moto ranked low


That's actually a misinterpretation – Con Moto wasn't even in the poll until the activity in the poll has ceased a lot – I think it was added a year after the poll started. And in the beginning Con Moto was only the cellos, wasn't it?, and then the violins B were added later? When the poll was closed, Con Moto was only two instruments IIRR. BBC SO isn't in there at all. The last circa 20 entries in the poll (all with a asterisk after the name) were added long after the poll was started. If someone would start a similar thread was started today, the numbers would have been different.

The misleading-ness of all this is the main reason I closed the poll more than a year ago.


----------



## Mike Fox

jaketanner said:


> I am surprised that Con Moto ranked low..I would have to imagine that it's because most people don't have it...same with Strezov...it's so damn expensive that its not going to get high marks, where CSS is very affordable and most of us have it...has high marks.


Exactly. Polls like that are pointless.

And the "expensive" Strezov string library is Afflatus, which actually isn't on the list. Incredible library, btw.


----------



## Vik

The closest one would get to achieve a more fair poll would be to ask two questions at the same time. If one would ask both which of the libraries the voters own, and which that are their favourites, one could figure out what percentage of those who actually own each of these libraries that consider them a favourite. 

This, combined with not adding any libraries after the poll was started would be a little more fair – but even this wouldn't necessarily end up with accurate results.

I started that poll only to save some time for those who are about to start investing in string libraries. IMO they have a certain degree of (limited) value here: if some of the libraries which are in the same price range as most others hardly get any votes, _maybe_ one should start looking elsewhere first.


----------



## CT

The short overlay on legato isn't there if you simply play softly enough or adjust velocities after the fact if that's too difficult in performance.


----------



## jaketanner

Mike Fox said:


> Exactly. Polls like that are pointless.
> 
> And the "expensive" Strezov string library is Afflatus, which actually isn't on the list. Incredible library, btw.


One day if a gig warrants it, I'll get it for sure


----------



## Mike Fox

Vik said:


> but even this wouldn't necessarily end up with accurate results.



100% it wouldn't.

I think it comes down to preference (tone, playability, user friendliness, features, etc.) more than "accuracy" when it comes to sample libraries. It's like trying to tell someone that the library they use and love is somehow the incorrect or correct one, because majority says so.

Just look at all the conflicting opinions in this thread about BBCSO.

If there's a majority of a certain opinion does that make it the "accurate" or "best" one? Not at all, and the waters get even muddier as soon as you introduce other factors into the equation.

I really think the topic is too subject and complicated to try and achieve "accurate" results with a poll, imo.

But to be fair, the title of the thread was, "*What are your favourite string libraries?", *not* "What is the best string library?"*

So i admit, it is fun to see other people's opinions about libraries!


----------



## Beans

To properly dig in, we really need a lot of questions:

What string libraries (or libraries with string patches) do you own?
Which do you use most often?
For what type of music?
What do you not own that you are looking to acquire?
What is your favorite brand of socks?
Choose one: Soda; Pop; Coke; Cola; Soft drink


----------



## dcoscina

Beans said:


> To properly dig in, we really need a lot of paired questions:
> 
> What string libraries (or libraries with string patches) do you own?
> Which do you use most often?
> For what type of music?
> What do you not own that you are looking to acquire?
> What is your favorite brand of socks?
> Choose one: Soda; Pop; Coke; Cola; Soft drink


----------



## method1

Beans said:


> What is your favorite brand of socks?



Well I do really love Spitfire socks, they look amazing but having only up to 2 layers of insulation makes them less useful in winter. 

On the other hand Cinematic Studio Socks have stunning threadwork but tend to look a little dark in summer.


----------



## Mike Fox

Beans said:


> To properly dig in, we really need a lot of questions:
> 
> What string libraries (or libraries with string patches) do you own?
> Which do you use most often?
> For what type of music?
> What do you not own that you are looking to acquire?
> What is your favorite brand of socks?
> Choose one: Soda; Pop; Coke; Cola; Soft drink


5 & 6 are certainly the most important!


----------



## John R Wilson

Mike T said:


> The short overlay on legato isn't there if you simply play softly enough or adjust velocities after the fact if that's too difficult in performance.



I believe their is still something going on with the programming in the performance legato type patches at the lower velocities, not sure if it completely removes the overlays (could be wrong on this). If you play the Flutes extended legatos and then play the same passages with the normal legato you'll hear the difference, they can sound more smooth for some things. Its nice to have the option for both types on the woodwinds. I would have really liked to have had this for the strings as well. In SCS, you have the option of three legato patches, one in the main patch, the legato performance and the performance legatos. I often prefer the legato performance patches to the performance legatos for some things and vice versa.


----------



## jonnybutter

Mike T said:


> The short overlay on legato isn't there if you simply play softly enough or adjust velocities after the fact if that's too difficult in performance.



What I find is that individual instruments really vary a lot. I think the worst offender in terms of overlay is 2nd violins. My ears aren't what they were, unfortunately, so someone might hear something I don't. But I can hear those plucks clearly even with my old ears. 

I notice vibrato masks the overlay somewhat, so if you turn down your vibrato you can hear the plucks pretty clearly no matter how low the velocity. I know non vib strings are hard to make sound good, since it's harder to play like that in real life. (Jean Luc Ponty can play in tune without vibrato though!).

oh well. Not the end of the world


----------



## dcoscina

I've noticed improvements since the library's inception but some stuff still needs a bit of tweaking. I'm not overly crazy about the section oboes or bassoons... the solos are better.


----------



## CT

The non performance legatos do have a slightly more expressive and lyrical quality, but the programming is sometimes not as sharp in other ways so that's a tradeoff. As for the overlays, yes, if you set velocity to anything below 10, I believe they are removed entirely. This is something that obviously only applies to notes with new attacks, not overlapped ones, so that won't result in a portamento where you don't want it. I agree it would be nice to have the alternate patches for strings as well since that would remove the necessity for a bit of velocity tweaking post-performance.


----------



## tjr

mybadmemory said:


> It does sound absolutely beautiful, it just requires more patience and work than the other libraries I have (player, loading, timing inconsistencies). If you’re prepared for that the results are great. For me though, I usually reach for what’s easiest and fastest to work with, which the BBC sadly isn’t. I would have loved for it to be though!



What do you find easiest and fastest to work with?


----------



## jonnybutter

dcoscina said:


> I've noticed improvements since the library's inception but some stuff still needs a bit of tweaking. I'm not overly crazy about the section oboes or bassoons... the solos are better.



I agree with you about the section oboes and bassoons. I don't know what I'd ever use them for, although I guess you never know. Glad to hear there have tweaks.


----------



## dcoscina

jonnybutter said:


> I agree with you about the section oboes and bassoons. I don't know what I'd ever use them for, although I guess you never know. Glad to hear there have tweaks.


I might use them to double a string part or something but I always go for the solo instruments for exposed part writing. 

I'm still very impressed with how doubling instruments sounds so authentic and organic. I dig doubling tuba with double bass. The play off one another very well.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> I believe their is still something going on with the programming in the performance legato type patches at the lower velocities, not sure if it completely removes the overlays (could be wrong on this). If you play the Flutes extended legatos and then play the same passages with the normal legato you'll hear the difference, they can sound more smooth for some things. Its nice to have the option for both types on the woodwinds. I would have really liked to have had this for the strings as well. In SCS, you have the option of three legato patches, one in the main patch, the legato performance and the performance legatos. I often prefer the legato performance patches to the performance legatos for some things and vice versa.


The cost of SCS is 2/3'ds that of BBCSO Pro...and it's just strings. So I do understand that we are complaining about a library that is essentially only $250 per section: Strings, brass, winds, percussion. The issue is that we HAVE to buy it all or not. Splitting the sections makes no sense since it's meant to all work as a "team", otherwise the magic is lost. So there we are...my final realization...LOL (I will most likely get it tomorrow).

As others have mentioned, we either take it and love it as it is today, or not because chances of it being updated are probably slim, aside from the promised updates to the GUI in Core. But it would be a welcomed update for sure if they addressed only a few things mentioned here.


----------



## José Herring

dcoscina said:


> So I remixed my Bat little piece. I also added another BBCSO but from Pro which is an ode to Prokofiev (the short little idea I had which I'm going to expand upon.... in StaffPad! LOL)


Sounds fantastic to me.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> The cost of SCS is 2/3'ds that of BBCSO Pro...and it's just strings. So I do understand that we are complaining about a library that is essentially only $250 per section: Strings, brass, winds, percussion. The issue is that we HAVE to buy it all or not. Splitting the sections makes no sense since it's meant to all work as a "team", otherwise the magic is lost. So there we are...my final realization...LOL (I will most likely get it tomorrow).
> 
> As others have mentioned, we either take it and love it as it is today, or not because chances of it being updated are probably slim, aside from the promised updates to the GUI in Core. But it would be a welcomed update for sure if they addressed only a few things mentioned here.



That is very true and something that is easily overlooked. I just think that the BBCSO is so well recorded and has so much potential that if a little extra time was spent improving some areas or addressed some of the things that has been mentioned here then it would be an absolutely brilliant library. Their could still be some good updates for it coming. It's probably sold pretty well and they seem to have been quite focused on the BBCSO over the last year or so.


----------



## Vik

Mike Fox said:


> I really think the topic is too subject and complicated to try and achieve "accurate" results with a poll, imo.


By 'accurate', I was only thinking of an accurate representation of which libraries we all, subjectively, preferred. It's possible to cheat in polls like these, for instance by declaring that you really like Library X and not at the same time declaring that you own – this will give a false, high result for that library. So even a more 'fair' poll, with eg 50 libraries mentioned, and you were asked to both claim your favourites and which libraries you own (in other words, two questions about each of the libraries), the result could be very misleading, and not even reflect our highly non-objective opinions.



> But to be fair, the title of the thread was, "*What are your favourite string libraries?", *not* "What is the best string library?"*


Absolutely!


----------



## Rory

When Spitfire launched BBC Discover in the spring, I thought that it was a brilliant marketing decision. Get BBCSO to school boards, music teachers and parents in the UK and elsewhere. My local school district alone has over one million students.

Spitfire's interesting decision to make a GarageBand template for BBCSO is consistent with this, GarageBand being the DAW that comes included with every Mac computer. I also think that Spitfire had young people in mind when the Discover interface was designed. See GarageBand + BBC Discover in the screen capture below.

If I'm right, Covid-19 has put a bit of a wrench into the plan for the moment. That said, it suggests that BBCSO was conceived of as a fairly long-term product with, if Spitfire succeeds, broad institutional buy-in. It's unclear what, if anything, that means for further development, but it's certainly consistent with it.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> That is very true and something that is easily overlooked. I just think that the BBCSO is so well recorded and has so much potential that if a little extra time was spent improving some areas or addressed some of the things that has been mentioned here then it would be an absolutely brilliant library. Their could still be some good updates for it coming. It's probably sold pretty well and they seem to have been quite focused on the BBCSO over the last year or so.


agreed...I will be getting pro tonight I think.


----------



## Fleer

Enjoy


----------



## Cormast

Pro version is amazing. Still miss some legato extended patches for several intruments. (combination of legato patch with staccato patch).


----------



## Ruffian Price

I'm not sure if it's all of them, but for at least some of the instruments with performance legato you can go to the articulation editor



(which defines which keyswitches you'll have available) and there'll be a grayed out spiccato-less legato option you can add to your list. Weird that support wouldn't mention this.


----------



## jonnybutter

Rory said:


> When Spitfire launched BBC Discover in the spring, I thought that it was a brilliant marketing decision.



Agree. It certainly hooked me.


----------



## jaketanner

jonnybutter said:


> Agree. It certainly hooked me.


I think Discover is the perfect demo. It's the most complete demo that says "look what you can do with me, imagine what my father can do"...LOL Aside from the limited dynamics and articulations, the sound of Discover is close enough for someone to make a decision on the library....far better than watching videos all day long or taking other's opinions. Hands-on is where it's at and whether SF used it as a demo, a learning tool or whatever...it did get me to want it.


----------



## John R Wilson

Ruffian Price said:


> I'm not sure if it's all of them, but for at least some of the instruments with performance legato you can go to the articulation editor
> 
> 
> 
> (which defines which keyswitches you'll have available) and there'll be a grayed out spiccato-less legato option you can add to your list. Weird that support wouldn't mention this.



Yeah this is were you can get the other legato versions without the Spic overlays for some of the instruments. I just would have liked to have also had the other type for the strings as well!


----------



## ridgero

Hey guys, I need some help.

Can you enable all disabled tracks with one click in Cubase? I downloaded the Cubase templates from Spitfire's "The Page" and on default the tracks are disabled.

Thanks


----------



## jonvog

ridgero said:


> Hey guys, I need some help.
> 
> Can you enable all disabled tracks with one click in Cubase? I downloaded the Cubase templates from Spitfire's "The Page" and on default the tracks are disabled.
> 
> Thanks


just select them all (click the first, shift-click the last) and then you can enable them in one go.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

jaketanner said:


> agreed...I will be getting pro tonight I think.


Share your impressions?


----------



## jaketanner

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Share your impressions?


Absolutely...soon as I get it. Ran into a snag with computer place to upgrade Ram...took a bit longer than expected...back today, so maybe later today I'll start download...will take a few days to get my bearings and report back fairly.


----------



## Rory

jaketanner said:


> maybe later today I'll start download...will take a few days to get my bearings and report back fairly.




This thread on installing BBC Pro might be worth a minute or two of your time: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/my-experience-installing-spitfire-bbc-pro.96859/


----------



## jaketanner

Rory said:


> This thread on installing BBC Pro might be worth a minute or two of your time: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/my-experience-installing-spitfire-bbc-pro.96859/


Thanks will check before install. Want it to go smoothly. Brand new SSD (high speed) all set to go.


----------



## jaketanner

Rory said:


> This thread on installing BBC Pro might be worth a minute or two of your time: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/my-experience-installing-spitfire-bbc-pro.96859/


dam, we have the exact setup.. LOL T7 here as well and mini 64 gigs.


----------



## Fleer

Rory said:


> This thread on installing BBC Pro might be worth a minute or two of your time: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/my-experience-installing-spitfire-bbc-pro.96859/


Thanks, Rory, very useful indeed.


----------



## jaketanner

Fleer said:


> Thanks, Rory, very useful indeed.


I have to say, I had no issues at all aside from it taking almost all night. But everything downloaded and go to go by morning. I averaged about 65Mbs, even though my speed is 150Mbs download...just the SF site didn't allow for it.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> I have to say, I had no issues at all aside from it taking almost all night. But everything downloaded and go to go by morning. I averaged about 65Mbs, even though my speed is 150Mbs download...just the SF site didn't allow for it.



It was painfully slow for me. Took several days because my internet speed is rubbish!!


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> I have to say, I had no issues at all aside from it taking almost all night. But everything downloaded and go to go by morning. I averaged about 65Mbs, even though my speed is 150Mbs download...just the SF site didn't allow for it.



How you finding the BBCSO so far?


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> It was painfully slow for me. Took several days because my internet speed is rubbish!!


I could have hard wired, and would have been better I think, but my wife is set up for work online and didn't want to mess with anything.. LOL. Overnight is the best...wake up and it's done.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> How you finding the BBCSO so far?


I haven't fully explored it all...but so far so good actually. Will try and mess with it more over the next few weeks...but I am guessing it's going to be fine. I have plenty of other libraries to add an instrument here and there if need be...but overall, I like the sound a lot. You?


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> I could have hard wired, and would have been better I think, but my wife is set up for work online and didn't want to mess with anything.. LOL.



It was pretty terrible for me as it was their for a long time downloading and I was stupid and started downloading it early in the morning so I could see how slow it was going all day


----------



## jaketanner

What I do sometimes if I see it downloading slow...I pause it, and resume few seconds or even a minute or two later...and it usually speeds up. Sometimes it's all about the timing. The internet has its fluctuations too.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> I haven't fully explored it all...but so far so good actually. Will try and mess with it more over the next few weeks...but I am guessing it's going to be fine. I have plenty of other libraries to add an instrument here and there if need be...but overall, I like the sound a lot. You?



I feel similar. Overall, I find it great just the programming can bother me sometimes in some areas and obviously it has it weak areas, but that's no different to every library. I'm using it as my main library but then I add things to it were needed. Currently thinking of getting the Performance Samples Con Moto libraries to integrate with the BBCSO when I want a nice soaring legato line!


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Currently thinking of getting the Con Moto libraries to integrate with the BBCSO when I want a nice soaring legato line!


I have them...fantastic. But if you are going to invest in P.S....wait until Vista is released if you can. But I am more than happy with CM...if it had regular articulations it would be a very hard library to beat in terms of sound and playability.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> I have them...fantastic. But if you are going to invest in P.S....wait until Vista is released if you can. But I am more than happy with CM...if it had regular articulations it would be a very hard library to beat in terms of sound and playability.



It does sound absolutely brilliant in the demos, so does the upcoming Vista. Really want to get them but definitely think ill need to hold off on them as its pretty expensive for the full bundle and understand their was a 50% sale on it last month that I annoyingly missed. Think they would work pretty well with the BBCSO.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> It does sound absolutely brilliant in the demos, so does the upcoming Vista. Really want to get them but definitely think ill need to hold off on them as its pretty expensive for the full bundle and understand their was a 50% sale on it last month that I annoyingly missed. Think they would work pretty well with the BBCSO.


Will need to try it with bbc but honestly I like the string sound of bbc and unless I absolutely have to, I’m gonna use them all not. Come to think of it, if they do work nicely, you can use CM as divisi. Since it’s about half the size.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> Will need to try it with bbc but honestly I like the string sound of bbc and unless I absolutely have to, I’m gonna use them all not. Come to think of it, if they do work nicely, you can use CM as divisi. Since it’s about half the size.



The BBCSO strings tone is lovely!! I just find the legatos can be a little bumpy sometimes.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> The BBCSO strings tone is lovely!! I just find the legatos can be a little bumpy sometimes.


How long have you had it? I need to dive in more for sure.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> How long have you had it? I need to dive in more for sure.



I've had it for quite some time now.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> I've had it for quite some time now.


Cool. I think I’m going to enjoy it. Can’t wait to have the time to write what I have in mind for it. It’s gonna work out pretty good I think. Glad I got pro though, the extra mics do help. Not fond of the leaders though. But buried in there maybe.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> Cool. I think I’m going to enjoy it. Can’t wait to have the time to write what I have in mind for it. It’s gonna work out pretty good I think. Glad I got pro though, the extra mics do help. Not fond of the leaders though. But buried in there maybe.



Overall I think it is a great library. I think some more content might come for it yet as well! I'd be interested in hearing what you come up with. The extra mics certainly do help. I quite like some of the leaders articulations, not so much the legatos though but I think their not really meant to be used as solos but more for layering in with a section to add some more detail.


----------



## dylanmixer

jaketanner said:


> Cool. I think I’m going to enjoy it. Can’t wait to have the time to write what I have in mind for it. It’s gonna work out pretty good I think. Glad I got pro though, the extra mics do help. Not fond of the leaders though. But buried in there maybe.



Really? I find the celli leader in particular to be really good.


----------



## jaketanner

dylanmixer said:


> Really? I find the celli leader in particular to be really good.


Was only referring to the violin...sorry. Haven't actually checked out the rest yet. I did a quick test and found it a bit off...not as warm and nice of a tone as the rest. But will definitely check the cello now, thanks!!


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Overall I think it is a great library. I think some more content might come for it yet as well! I'd be interested in hearing what you come up with. The extra mics certainly do help. I quite like some of the leaders articulations, not so much the legatos though but I think their not really meant to be used as solos but more for layering in with a section to add some more detail.


I tried the violin 1 leader along with the ensembles, and it seemed to take away that beautiful warms...maybe I had it up too loud, but if it's too low, then it's inaudible anyway.. LOL. Not that it really needs the leader though, but always nice to have. Definitely need to explore it more...but so far I think it's going to work out.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> I tried the violin 1 leader along with the ensembles, and it seemed to take away that beautiful warms...maybe I had it up too loud, but if it's too low, then it's inaudible anyway.. LOL. Not that it really needs the leader though, but always nice to have. Definitely need to explore it more...but so far I think it's going to work out.



I find that the leaders can work quite nicely layered with a section in some cases. I suppose it all depends on what sound your going for. Might work quite well for one piece but not so well for something else.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> I find that the leaders can work quite nicely layered with a section in some cases. I suppose it all depends on what sound your going for. Might work quite well for one piece but not so well for something else.


True. But to be fair I do want to spend more time with it as a whole.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> I find that the leaders can work quite nicely layered with a section in some cases. I suppose it all depends on what sound your going for. Might work quite well for one piece but not so well for something else.


oh boy...just did a few tests. The cello sounds wonderful...nice. but the violin 1 is absolutely terrible. nasal whinny and vibrato is off the hook. However, the violin 2 is actually very nice and warm...worlds away from violin 1 leader...what the heck is going on there?

Also, there is a crazy attack on the violin 1 that's uncontrollable. the other leaders sound great...no issues at all. Also, what's with the 8.35 gigs of RAM that the leaders take up.. LOL Damn, that's a lot and I'm only using the MIX 1...LOL


----------



## Vik

jaketanner said:


> but the violin 1 is absolutely terrible. nasal whinny and vibrato is off the hook. However, the violin 2 is actually very nice and warm...worlds away from violin 1 leader...what the heck is going on there?


I have seen, in several libraries, that the V2 is more successful than the V1. It almost sounds as if they have started sampling/programming the V1 first, and used the experiences from the V1 when they start working with the V2 - while doing it the other way round IMO should be a much better solution – especially, of course, for smaller companies.


----------



## jaketanner

Vik said:


> I have seen, in several libraries, that the V2 is more successful than the V1. It almost sounds as if they have started sampling/programming the V1 first, and used the experiences from the V1 when they start working with the V2 - while doing it the other way round IMO should be a much better solution – especially, of course, for smaller companies.


I agree...it's very weird. I don't mind using Vin 2 at all..I don't really use them all that often anyway, but nice to have. The other leaders sound really nice though.


----------



## easyrider

jaketanner said:


> I agree...it's very weird. I don't mind using Vin 2 at all..I don't really use them all that often anyway, but nice to have. The other leaders sound really nice though.




Are you happy overall? and did you go pro?


----------



## jaketanner

easyrider said:


> Are you happy overall? and did you go pro?


So far so good...it has it's limits, but for my intended use, I think it will do just fine. I went Pro yes.


----------



## Fleer

jaketanner said:


> So far so good...it has it's limits, but for my intended use, I think it will do just fine. I went Pro yes.


Would love to read more of your thoughts now that you’ve got it for a while.


----------



## jaketanner

Fleer said:


> Would love to read more of your thoughts now that you’ve got it for a while.


Truthfully, haven’t had a chance to dive in like I wanted to. But I’ve been trying it out on some ideas and I like it. I definitely see the limitations, but I think I can work around them. Not hard if you have additional libraries to add to it. Just a little, nothing major.


----------



## MaxOctane

Imma be honest... I kinda miss having a big Spitfire release. Looking forward to the next one.


----------



## easyrider

jaketanner said:


> Truthfully, haven’t had a chance to dive in like I wanted to. But I’ve been trying it out on some ideas and I like it. I definitely see the limitations, but I think I can work around them. Not hard if you have additional libraries to add to it. Just a little, nothing major.



Did you get Pro or Core?


----------



## jaketanner

easyrider said:


> Did you get Pro or Core?


Pro.


----------



## easyrider

jaketanner said:


> Pro.




Do you wish you had gone core first as a taste....then upgrade BF or whatever?


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

Could somebody help me finding out how wet the recordings are, in MIX1 without reverb? 
Is there a noticable reduction of Hall in the recordings when switchting to the Close mic Mix?
I want to get the Core first, with the thought of upgrading it later.


----------



## jaketanner

easyrider said:


> Do you wish you had gone core first as a taste....then upgrade BF or whatever?


Nah. I thought about it. First from a frustration level and if I could wait until the next sale. Got it on EDU teacher. Then I thought again on a financial level, WOULD I be able to get pro at 40% later on. But I just really wanted the extra mics and low instruments. Core is good too, but if you know you’re going pro eventually and can swing it, do it.


----------



## Rory

New Spitfire video on saving RAM. It's on Spitfire's channel Spitfire Clips, which not everyone may know about:


----------



## Brasart

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Could somebody help me finding out how wet the recordings are, in MIX1 without reverb?
> Is there a noticable reduction of Hall in the recordings when switchting to the Close mic Mix?
> I want to get the Core first, with the thought of upgrading it later.



Yes, Close and CloseWide are way drier than Mix1.
I'd say the closest solo mic to Mix1 would be Tree only, but Mix1 definitely has a unique flavor different than any solo mic.


----------



## Fleer

Those mics in Pro definitely take Core to another level, especially with regard to drier results, if so inclined.


----------



## Fleer

Rory said:


> New Spitfire video on saving RAM. It's on Spitfire's channel Spitfire Clips, which not everyone may know about:



Thanks, this is a lifesaver.


----------



## redlester

MaxOctane said:


> Imma be honest... I kinda miss having a big Spitfire release. Looking forward to the next one.



They have been noticeably quiet this year, apart from Neo, Stratus and Symphonic Motions they have focussed more on the smaller releases.

Also noticeable how much the social media channels have gone relatively quiet, Christian’s YouTube especially. No Modular Mondays since lockdown.

I don’t know if it’s just the Covid effect or also other things.


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> They have been noticeably quiet this year, apart from Neo, Stratus and Symphonic Motions they have focussed more on the smaller releases.
> 
> Also noticeable how much the social media channels have gone relatively quiet, Christian’s YouTube especially. No Modular Mondays since lockdown.
> 
> I don’t know if it’s just the Covid effect or also other things.


Yeah, I was thinking that last night. Covid must have had some impact. Spitfire staff at home, recording venues shuttered.. Who knows. 😔

That said I expect with Black Friday looming, the Spitfire marketing monster will be awakening from its slumber to shift vast quantities of flautando and stir forum arguments.

In fact, I think I saw the bulbs dim for a second there..


----------



## mybadmemory

redlester said:


> They have been noticeably quiet this year, apart from Neo, Stratus and Symphonic Motions they have focussed more on the smaller releases.
> 
> Also noticeable how much the social media channels have gone relatively quiet, Christian’s YouTube especially. No Modular Mondays since lockdown.
> 
> I don’t know if it’s just the Covid effect or also other things.



I've noticed that same. And on a similar note, I've noticed that CineSamples have gone the opposite way, from dead silent to quite active with marketing, sales, and social posts!


----------



## dzilizzi

I guess it depends on what point in the new product process they were out. The shutdown was great if you were programming and could do it from home. The shutdown was not so great if you were in the middle of recording instrumentalists, especially those requiring breath. (Strings sections could potentially still wear a mask) Six feet apart when you are usually next to each other sounds different. I'm guessing they are slowly getting back into recording, depending on where they are located.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

redlester said:


> Also noticeable how much the social media channels have gone relatively quiet, Christian’s YouTube especially. No Modular Mondays since lockdown.
> 
> I don’t know if it’s just the Covid effect or also other things.



Lol what? They are cranking out really fantastic content very regularly on the Spitfire YouTube. Highly detailed instrument walkthroughs with the BBCSO players, "in action" tutorials, heck they even started a "Summer School" series on a variety of scoring topics. Just this morning they posted a 45 min interview with Jess Russo walking through a Star Trek cue. They are posting something new every 2-3 days.


----------



## redlester

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Lol what? They are cranking out really fantastic content very regularly on the Spitfire YouTube. Highly detailed instrument walkthroughs with the BBCSO players, "in action" tutorials, heck they even started a "Summer School" series on a variety of scoring topics. Just this morning they posted a 45 min interview with Jess Russo walking through a Star Trek cue. They are posting something new every 2-3 days.



Exactly. 2-3 days rather than 2 or 3 times a day! 

Seriously, I suppose my comment was more to do with Christian and Paul's personal YouTube channels, which have dropped off a cliff in comparison to what they used to be.

But also the Spitfire stuff itself is mostly about general techniques rather than relating to new products. Which some would say is a godsend...

I saw a post on Instagram from Christian showing the new Spitfire Northern office building, and he confirmed there that he is no longer a "WILLIE" (work in London, live in Edinburgh) so I guess we won't see any of those videos of his rants/stream of consciousness while on train or plane journeys for quite some time. I used to really like those!


----------



## redlester

Two weeks on Saturday is the first anniversary of release day.

Anything special planned? Chocolates, anyone?


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> Two weeks on Saturday is the first anniversary of release day.
> 
> Anything special planned? Chocolates, anyone?


I might actually celebrate by buying the damn library. 😂


----------



## jaketanner

Question for those that use alternate brass along with BBCSO...VSL is having a sale on their single instruments: buy one get one free...there are many brass instruments to choose from, and wondering if anyone has used VSL (old VI player format) libraries and blended well with BBC...might pick up a couple of horns, being that I think those are the most lacking of the brass? Thanks.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

well, decided to bite the bullet. 

999$ down the drain for woodwinds and a sketching library XD


----------



## jaketanner

ProfoundSilence said:


> well, decided to bite the bullet.
> 
> 999$ down the drain for woodwinds and a sketching library XD


What do you mean down the drain? How do you not like it?


----------



## Hooo

jaketanner said:


> Might pick up a couple of horns, being that I think those are the most lacking of the brass



A good tip is for the solo horn is to try the regular legato rather than the 'extended' legato, which you can find if you click the pencil icon to get into the articulation editor. I find the regular legato often works better for slower, longer lines and has less of the cuivre sound. As an alternate, I also use Orchestral Tools' Majestic Horn which is super cheap and sounds great, though is perhaps not a perfect blend (Full version of Kontakt is required)


----------



## jaketanner

Hooo said:


> A good tip is for the solo horn is to try the regular legato rather than the 'extended' legato, which you can find if you click the pencil icon to get into the articulation editor. I find the regular legato often works better for slower, longer lines and has less of the cuivre sound. As an alternate, I also use Orchestral Tools' Majestic Horn which is super cheap and sounds great, though is perhaps not a perfect blend (Full version of Kontakt is required)


I actually have Majestic Horn but never used it yet. Truthfully I haven't tried writing anything with the brass yet, just going by the feedback...BUT, I do know that SFA is not famous for their brass, despite the SSB...My Century Brass is killer...but I thought of VSL simply because their old samples are very dry and I can mold them into the same space pretty easily. Also they have way more dynamic range than the BBC brass does..and it's really a "just in case" scenario since it's on a crazy sale right now...also BBC doesn't have a Euphonium or Cimbasso which I might add from VSL. Maybe I'll get the solo instruments that are missing from BBC and make myself a larger BBC orchestra.. LOL 

Gonna try the regular legato...what my plan is once I have the time, is go in and redo all patches with my own default settings which will include the regular legato.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

jaketanner said:


> What do you mean down the drain? How do you not like it?



I don't plan on using most of it - as I've got much better libraries at my disposal. However, was looking for the ideal companion for BWW, and this seems to be it. I want 3 flutes/oboes/clarinets/bassoons - including a3. 

with BWW + BBCSO I'd have this:

flute 1 BWW
flute 2 BWW
flute 1 BBCSO
flutes a3 BBCSO
ect
ect
ect
a3 ect

I wanted a real room that worked with the teldex sound - and these seemed to be the best fit sonically(although it's hard to get many examples for woodwinds because no one wants to write for them)

On the other hand, I have bits and bobs of sketching ability on my laptop(I've avoided using kontakt so far because of sine, but not all my libraries are on sine yet)

and This would give me some lightweight percussion and a full palette to build a simple 16gb sketching template out of(just using long and staccato, with no legato or fancy articulations).


----------



## jaketanner

ProfoundSilence said:


> I don't plan on using most of it - as I've got much better libraries at my disposal. However, was looking for the ideal companion for BWW, and this seems to be it. I want 3 flutes/oboes/clarinets/bassoons - including a3.
> 
> with BWW + BBCSO I'd have this:
> 
> flute 1 BWW
> flute 2 BWW
> flute 1 BBCSO
> flutes a3 BBCSO
> ect
> ect
> ect
> a3 ect
> 
> I wanted a real room that worked with the teldex sound - and these seemed to be the best fit sonically(although it's hard to get many examples for woodwinds because no one wants to write for them)
> 
> On the other hand, I have bits and bobs of sketching ability on my laptop(I've avoided using kontakt so far because of sine, but not all my libraries are on sine yet)
> 
> and This would give me some lightweight percussion and a full palette to build a simple 16gb sketching template out of(just using long and staccato, with no legato or fancy articulations).


I got it mostly for the strings and winds also... LOL BTW...VSL is having a crazy buy 1 get 1 deal on all their single instruments...I am getting a few wind and brass instruments to fill in the BBC since they are dry and will fit nicely into their space.


----------



## jaketanner

ProfoundSilence said:


> I don't plan on using most of it - as I've got much better libraries at my disposal. However, was looking for the ideal companion for BWW, and this seems to be it. I want 3 flutes/oboes/clarinets/bassoons - including a3.
> 
> with BWW + BBCSO I'd have this:
> 
> flute 1 BWW
> flute 2 BWW
> flute 1 BBCSO
> flutes a3 BBCSO
> ect
> ect
> ect
> a3 ect
> 
> I wanted a real room that worked with the teldex sound - and these seemed to be the best fit sonically(although it's hard to get many examples for woodwinds because no one wants to write for them)
> 
> On the other hand, I have bits and bobs of sketching ability on my laptop(I've avoided using kontakt so far because of sine, but not all my libraries are on sine yet)
> 
> and This would give me some lightweight percussion and a full palette to build a simple 16gb sketching template out of(just using long and staccato, with no legato or fancy articulations).


basically going to identify all weak instruments and ones that are missing and add them with the VSL solo instruments...at 2 for 1 it's a great deal.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> basically going to identify all weak instruments and ones that are missing and add them with the VSL solo instruments...at 2 for 1 it's a great deal.



That could be a good idea  i'm considering this as well. I've not ever got any of the VI series from them before. Do you need to get anything like the Vienna Instruments Pro run it?


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> That could be a good idea  i'm considering this as well. I've not ever got any of the VI series from them before. Do you need to get anything like the Vienna Instruments Pro run it?


The libraries come with the Vienna player. You can upgrade to pro I guess. But not needed.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> The libraries come with the Vienna player. You can upgrade to pro I guess. But not needed.



Might look into picking up some of these then. looks like a pretty good sale on it.  What are you planning on using for placement of the dry samples?


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Might look into picking up some of these then. looks like a pretty good sale on it.  What are you planning on using for placement of the dry samples?


You mean reverb wise? I have Spaces II and also Cinematic Rooms pro that I use to create the space.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> You mean reverb wise? I have Spaces II and also Cinematic Rooms pro that I use to create the space.



Yeah just wondering about placing it in the room with the BBCSO. Heard precedence was pretty good for placement and panning. Cinematic Rooms pro looks like a really nice reverb! I've got their Seventh Heaven standard which is one of my favourites.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Yeah just wondering about placing it in the room with the BBCSO. Heard precedence was pretty good for placement and panning. Cinematic Rooms pro looks like a really nice reverb! I've got their Seventh Heaven standard which is one of my favourites.


Well we are talking about 1-3 instruments blended in with the rest of the BBC. Don’t think it’s gonna be hard at all creating a space with CR to Match the BBC. I’ll just solo one of their winds and use the very dry VSL sample and a/b with CR until I get a similar sound. Then I’ll save that as a preset. I’ll do the same for the different instruments and their placement. The pro version of CR also gives you crossfeed capabilities.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> Well we are talking about 1-3 instruments blended in with the rest of the BBC. Don’t think it’s gonna be hard at all creating a space with CR to Match the BBC. I’ll just solo one of their winds and use the very dry VSL sample and a/b with CR until I get a similar sound. Then I’ll save that as a preset. I’ll do the same for the different instruments and their placement. The pro version of CR also gives you crossfeed capabilities.



Yeah I agree, what ones are you thinking of getting? Might get cinematic rooms at some point.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Yeah I agree, what ones are you thinking of getting? Might get cinematic rooms at some point.


I am making a list in vsl. Adding to my cart, I’ll be done with that Late tonight and I’ll post a screenshot.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Yeah I agree, what ones are you thinking of getting? Might get cinematic rooms at some point.


So far this is what I've come up with to add...this way I can also build some harmonies rather than replace. 

Aside from the ones below, I am also considering the Epic Horns and Fanfare Trumpets...need to see firs if BBC can do epic or bright. This way I am covered for that style.

The Alto Flute is missing from BBC, so you need that and so is the Euphonium. The Wagner and triple horn will be nice additions or replacements and the flute and clarinet extras are to build harmonies in with the solo winds of BBC.

EDIT: Made two changes...Clarinet 2 and Flute 2 instead of 1. I tried them against the BBC and the 2nds seem to blend nicer...I mean slightly different...the 1s from VSL seem too close in sound.


----------



## redlester

BBC are apparently now appealing the decision to make Maida Vale a listed building, so they can sell it off for apartments.

https://inews.co.uk/news/entertainment/bbc-maida-vale-studios-grade-listing-objection-657441

Here is a clip from 1970, featuring James Burke with a guitar at Maida Vale, discussing the issues of acoustic design.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/acoustic_scaling/z6p4bdm


----------



## Fleer

They’re doing a live concert at Maida Vale on October 22nd to celebrate their 90th anniversary: https://www.rhinegold.co.uk/classical_music/bbc-symphony-orchestra-celebrates-90-years/


----------



## Theladur

Fleer said:


> They’re doing a live concert at Maida Vale on October 22nd to celebrate their 90th anniversary: https://www.rhinegold.co.uk/classical_music/bbc-symphony-orchestra-celebrates-90-years/



Might Spitfire have anything to do with it? Or is the date just coincidence?


Update for BBCSO?

EDIT: Oh, missed that there is already a speculation thread: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/announcement-—-october-22.99671/


----------



## Fleer

Don’t know, only did a search for “BBC Maida Vale” and that is what I found.


----------



## CT

...still using this and it's still great. Little bit of something in a 1990's vein I did yesterday.


----------



## jaketanner

Mike T said:


> ...still using this and it's still great. Little bit of something in a 1990's vein I did yesterday.



You are referring to the BBC right? Core or Pro?


----------



## OleJoergensen

Mike T said:


> ...still using this and it's still great. Little bit of something in a 1990's vein I did yesterday.



Sounds very good and beautiful.
Clear and crisp!
Can I ask what reverb did you use?


----------



## CT

OleJoergensen said:


> Van I ask what reverb did you use?



Seventh Heaven!


----------



## mushanga

Mike T said:


> Seventh Heaven!


Would you recommend the Standard over Professional version of this reverb?


----------



## CT

mushanga said:


> Would you recommend the Standard over Professional version of this reverb?



I only have the standard one for now, but I think if you are willing to pay it's worth getting the professional version. There's a bit more going on under the hood with the IRs and how they're modulated as I understand it, so you're not just paying for more presets and controls.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

7h professional is absolutely worth every penny


----------



## TeamLeader

Mike T said:


> Seventh Heaven!


Whcih Seventh Heaven preset???


----------



## CT

TeamLeader said:


> Whcih Seventh Heaven preset???



Large Hall, with the high and low filters engaged since I was approaching it like adding sweetener reverb to an existing recording rather than how I usually try to create an impression of a natural larger recording environment.


----------



## TeamLeader

Mike T said:


> Large Hall, with the high and low filters engaged since I was approaching it like adding sweetener reverb to an existing recording rather than how I usually try to create an impression of a natural larger recording environment.


thanks


----------



## Mrmonkey

I have some really dumb microphone questions for pro version.

Anyone have any tips on using the microphones for a more... soundtracky/cinematic tone? I feel like I tie myself in knotts with all the different ones.

Also when changing mics is it best to say, have the same setup for all instruments and then just change a couple of instruments or once you go away from the mixes,do You need to start compensating and say changing the brass mics to keep the organisation of the orchestra?

Then another question on top, how does that work with your reverbs? Let’s say I wanted ‘lord of the rings’ or channeled my inner Jeremy Soule.Would it be better to try to use mics such as the further/more atmospheric mics or should you instead use more reverb and keep the mic setup more standard? Or say if you want to make the violins more prominent, should you try to use a closer mic or lower the reverb applied to that track?

Sorry if the question is really dumb!


----------



## yiph2

Mrmonkey said:


> I have some really dumb microphone questions for pro version.
> 
> Anyone have any tips on using the microphones for a more... soundtracky/cinematic tone? I feel like I tie myself in knotts with all the different ones.
> 
> Also when changing mics is it best to say, have the same setup for all instruments and then just change a couple of instruments or once you go away from the mixes,do You need to start compensating and say changing the brass mics to keep the organisation of the orchestra?
> 
> Then another question on top, how does that work with your reverbs? Let’s say I wanted ‘lord of the rings’ or channeled my inner Jeremy Soule.Would it be better to try to use mics such as the further/more atmospheric mics or should you instead use more reverb and keep the mic setup more standard? Or say if you want to make the violins more prominent, should you try to use a closer mic or lower the reverb applied to that track?
> 
> Sorry if the question is really dumb!


I heard that mix 2 is more epic(ish), not sure if that is what you are looking for.
For the 2nd question, it really depends on what you want, try both and find something you like. I would turn up the room mics a bit, and maybe add a bit of reverb to it


----------



## CT

Mrmonkey said:


> Anyone have any tips on using the microphones for a more... soundtracky/cinematic tone?



Yeah, that's such an indefinite thing, it's hard to say unless you have an example of what you're trying to match.



Mrmonkey said:


> Then another question on top, how does that work with your reverbs? Let’s say I wanted ‘lord of the rings’ or channeled my inner Jeremy Soule.Would it be better to try to use mics such as the further/more atmospheric mics or should you instead use more reverb and keep the mic setup more standard? Or say if you want to make the violins more prominent, should you try to use a closer mic or lower the reverb applied to that track?



Not a dumb question at all. You have to consider how reverb/mics are being used in each context.

In the case of a "Lord of the Rings" sound, you have reverb being added to a rather full mix of typical symphonic mics. The particulars of that mix might vary from piece to piece, but the principle of adding something to an existing recording is the same. Watford Colosseum/Abbey Road etc., where those scores were recorded, are large, reverberant spaces already. Maida Vale is actually rather similar to Watford, and I think Mix 1 gets you something that's quite close to the Kurlander sound. You could be more granular and go for a discrete Tree/Outrigger/Ambient blend that handles the close stuff more subtly and based on momentary need, but that Jake Jackson mix is really good. Adding some reverb to that might be all it takes.

A "Jeremy Soule" sound is just as variable from piece to piece but generally, the perspective has much less close detail inherent in the sound, so it's less like adding reverb to a full sound and more like using reverb to get the mic perspectives you're given to sound like they were recorded in a much larger (cathedral) environment. There's also lots of depth contrast in his music, meaning that while the strings might sound quite distant, a single woodwind can simultaneously be very forward and present in the mix. I would approach this by using potentially very different mic mixes for different sections. Strings: tree/ambient or maybe ambient only with some close on solos, woodwinds: close/mids on the upper solo parts, tree/mids or tree only on the lower ones, outriggers on brass for the right width, maybe with tree or ambient slightly added in, possibly just tree for percussion etc. though some close/mid detail might be desirable sometimes. And then over this, a generously lengthy reverb, but not mixed overly loud. And this is just one possiblity.

So... Shore: try Mix 1 and some typical "Large Hall" or slightly larger reverb gravy. Soule: use different mics to get the right detail/depth for each element, add the right amount of cathedral sound.

Also important: don't trust me and work things out for yourself.


----------



## muk

+1 to what @Mike T wrote. For a Lord of the Rings sound, mix 1 with just a bit of additional reverb is pretty close. I used mix 1 and a bit of VSS3 on this example: 






LotR - The Shire mockup BBCSO #oneorchestra


Hi everyone, Here is a track from Howard Shore's Lord of the Rings soundtrack that I mocked up: 'The Shire'. Everything is BBCSO, with the following exceptions: the Zither is Orange Tree Samples Angelic Zither. I didn't have a Bodhran library, so I took the Kroboto patch from the Kontakt...




vi-control.net


----------



## Mrmonkey

muk said:


> +1 to what @Mike T wrote. For a Lord of the Rings sound, mix 1 with just a bit of additional reverb is pretty close. I used mix 1 and a bit of VSS3 on this example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LotR - The Shire mockup BBCSO #oneorchestra
> 
> 
> Hi everyone, Here is a track from Howard Shore's Lord of the Rings soundtrack that I mocked up: 'The Shire'. Everything is BBCSO, with the following exceptions: the Zither is Orange Tree Samples Angelic Zither. I didn't have a Bodhran library, so I took the Kroboto patch from the Kontakt...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



Thanks for the replies guys, so insightful! Damn Muk that sounds amazing. Strings sound so warm, literally sounds like a different noise that is coming out of my speakers when I use the library, though I think that may be my skills rather than the software. We’re you using all legatos for the longer sections? Mixing stuff up?

I tried doing a bit of a Skyrim song a few months back for some Soule training  but I couldn’t get the strings with BBCSO to sound right so ended up using other stuff and just messing around and it became a bit of a tower of cards. I did at least use the woodwinds, harp and drums. It was about as close as I could get to that ‘everything is in the background but you can somehow hear all the important bits’ sound. :/ 

Going to work on some Shoriness now and force myself to use BBCSO, you guys have inspired me!


----------



## CT

Soule's thing is a very tough sound to get right, in large part because we are not using the stuff he uses, mostly anyway. That transcription sounds quite accurate though, nice!

A lot of what I try to do, sonically at least, draws heavily on the two examples you asked about, as it turns out. BBCSO can do the Shore Middle-Earth sound so well! So far this is the happiest I've been with getting close to that specific thing. I should say though, that this was not done using the Mix 1 + reverb approach I just said should work best.


----------



## ism

Mrmonkey said:


> Thanks for the replies guys, so insightful! Damn Muk that sounds amazing. Strings sound so warm, literally sounds like a different noise that is coming out of my speakers when I use the library, though I think that may be my skills rather than the software. We’re you using all legatos for the longer sections? Mixing stuff up?
> 
> I tried doing a bit of a Skyrim song a few months back for some Soule training  but I couldn’t get the strings with BBCSO to sound right so ended up using other stuff and just messing around and it became a bit of a tower of cards. I did at least use the woodwinds, harp and drums. It was about as close as I could get to that ‘everything is in the background but you can somehow hear all the important bits’ sound. :/
> 
> Going to work on some Shoriness now and force myself to use BBCSO, you guys have inspired me!



What strings did you end up using on that?


----------



## muk

Mrmonkey said:


> Thanks for the replies guys, so insightful! Damn Muk that sounds amazing. Strings sound so warm, literally sounds like a different noise that is coming out of my speakers when I use the library, though I think that may be my skills rather than the software. We’re you using all legatos for the longer sections? Mixing stuff up?



Thanks @Mrmonkey. I used the legato only patch for some of the strings for the long notes. Not the 'performance legato' patch that is loaded up by default. On some of the instruments, the legato only patch has better legato programming than the performance legato patch. Takes a bit of trial and error for each instrument to find out. Apart from that, the long notes are all legato patches.


----------



## JonS

Mike T said:


> Soule's thing is a very tough sound to get right, in large part because we are not using the stuff he uses, mostly anyway. That transcription sounds quite accurate though, nice!
> 
> A lot of what I try to do, sonically at least, draws heavily on the two examples you asked about, as it turns out. BBCSO can do the Shore Middle-Earth sound so well! So far this is the happiest I've been with getting close to that specific thing. I should say though, that this was not done using the Mix 1 + reverb approach I just said should work best.



Sounds great 👍 Good job 👏


----------



## jaketanner

muk said:


> Thanks @Mrmonkey. I used the legato only patch for some of the strings for the long notes. Not the 'performance legato' patch that is loaded up by default.


Ummm...I have BBCSO Pro, and there is only ONE legato patch for the strings... am I missing something?


----------



## Ashermusic

muk said:


> +1 to what @Mike T wrote. For a Lord of the Rings sound, mix 1 with just a bit of additional reverb is pretty close. I used mix 1 and a bit of VSS3 on this example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LotR - The Shire mockup BBCSO #oneorchestra
> 
> 
> Hi everyone, Here is a track from Howard Shore's Lord of the Rings soundtrack that I mocked up: 'The Shire'. Everything is BBCSO, with the following exceptions: the Zither is Orange Tree Samples Angelic Zither. I didn't have a Bodhran library, so I took the Kroboto patch from the Kontakt...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net




Linos, that is really good.


----------



## jaketanner

Mrmonkey said:


> I have some really dumb microphone questions for pro version.
> 
> Anyone have any tips on using the microphones for a more... soundtracky/cinematic tone? I feel like I tie myself in knotts with all the different ones.
> 
> Also when changing mics is it best to say, have the same setup for all instruments and then just change a couple of instruments or once you go away from the mixes,do You need to start compensating and say changing the brass mics to keep the organisation of the orchestra?
> 
> Then another question on top, how does that work with your reverbs? Let’s say I wanted ‘lord of the rings’ or channeled my inner Jeremy Soule.Would it be better to try to use mics such as the further/more atmospheric mics or should you instead use more reverb and keep the mic setup more standard? Or say if you want to make the violins more prominent, should you try to use a closer mic or lower the reverb applied to that track?
> 
> Sorry if the question is really dumb!


The only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask.

The one thing you should focus on with all these mics, is to make sure in the end it sounds like one orchestra: do this before you add any reverb. The easiest method for this is to use the mix 1 mic first...get all your parts down and orchestrations straight, then start "pre-mixing" the library by experimenting with the mics per section. Do not use all of the same mics across the board as this is unrealistic and not typical of an orchestral mix.

Example: start with the tree for everyone...think of this as the overall "glue" mic...then start bringing in spot mics* to further address levels and clarity. Then try other mics to help give you the overall depth you're looking for. Example of this approach would be to use more of the ambient mics for the percussion as they are set further back in an ensemble, and then spot them if they have an important accent. Percussion also may not need to be that wide...certainly not much wider than the strings, so use the additional mics to create your stereo field...this is why I say not ALL mics should be used across all instruments.

*best approach here is to automate the mics...you may not need the extra clarity within a passage, but if it becomes more exposed, then the spot mics help...will vary per piece of course.

Hope this answers some of your questions.


----------



## CT

jaketanner said:


> Do not use all of the same mics across the board as this is unrealistic and not typical of an orchestral mix.



There's plenty of orchestral music that says otherwise.


----------



## jaketanner

Mike T said:


> There's plenty of orchestral music that says otherwise.


like?


----------



## CT

jaketanner said:


> like?



Jake. You're saying that it's unrealistic for a single blend of microphones to be applied to the entire orchestra, but applying ambient mics to only percussion, as in your example, is not unrealistic? You can't use the ambient mics only on the percussion in a real session unless it's striped, which is inarguably "less realistic" than recording everyone together at once.

I'm not saying there isn't plenty of reason to occasionally have different blends on different instruments/sections (usually just involving bits of spot mic detail as you said, since those can be adjusted independently in "reality"), but it seems silly to suggest that there is no orchestral music recorded with a simple and unchanging mic mix. That's just not true.


----------



## jaketanner

Mike T said:


> Jake. You're saying that it's unrealistic for a single blend of microphones to be applied to the entire orchestra, but applying ambient mics to only percussion, as in your example, is not unrealistic? You can't use the ambient mics only on the percussion in a real session unless it's striped, which is inarguably "less realistic" than recording everyone together at once.
> 
> I'm not saying there isn't plenty of reason to occasionally have different blends on different instruments/sections (usually just involving bits of spot mic detail as you said, since those can be adjusted independently in "reality"), but it seems silly to suggest that there is no orchestral music recorded with a simple and unchanging mic mix. That's just not true.


Didn't mean to imply that percussion is the only instrument to benefit from ambient mics , and certainly not the only mic (I said use "more" of the ambient mics, not to imply they were the only ones)...it was an example to use as an approach...a starting point for various outcomes. 

My point was to get a blend of a few mics first as the overall...but I only mentioned two...I didn't mean for it to be taken literally...but again, as a starting point for a general sound. THEN...add in the additional mics and automate the close or ambient mics as needed to get the results. 

Bottom line, there is no one way of doing things and if leaving a static mic mix works, then it works, but I can see many people being overwhelmed with this many mics and have no idea where to start.


----------



## CT

jaketanner said:


> (I said use "more" of the ambient mics, not to imply they were the only ones)



Same problem though! You can't dial up the ambient mics for the percussion only in a real session. If we're going to talk about what's "realistic" and "typical" (not the only way of course, but it's what I prefer), then it has to be understood that any microphones which aren't localized to a single player or section need to be treated the same across the board. Adjust one, adjust them all.

I get what you're saying man... experiment and try things out. And really, anything goes in sampleland if it sounds right, of course. What I initially quoted you as saying just struck me as odd.


----------



## EricValette

Mike T said:


> I should say though, that this was not done using the Mix 1 + reverb approach I just said should work best.



Can you tell us a bit more about how you did this?

This is one of the most convincing "demos" for BBCSO that I have heard so far (okay, I'm also a great lover of the "Lord of the Rings" sound, I admit it must influence my opinion ).

Apart from the choir, everything is only BBCSO? Usually, to achieve this really particular type of sound, I use EWHO which works wonderfully (with quite a few additions of other libraries here and there to correct some weaknesses) but your use of BBCSO could well make me reconsider this choice, at least in part! !

Bravo Mike!


----------



## dylanmixer

muk said:


> Thanks @Mrmonkey. I used the legato only patch for some of the strings for the long notes. Not the 'performance legato' patch that is loaded up by default. On some of the instruments, the legato only patch has better legato programming than the performance legato patch. Takes a bit of trial and error for each instrument to find out. Apart from that, the long notes are all legato patches.



Huh? There is no second legato for strings in BBCSO.


----------



## jaketanner

As long as we are on the BBC...I have two questions: 

first: Violin 2 spiccato patch is absolutely awful...like if the violin is broken. Is this just my copy, or everyone else? 

Second: What's with the harp articulations...seems like they are mislabeled. Damped is sustain, sustain is damped...etc. Anyone else with me on this? Or again, just a bad download?


----------



## jaketanner

dylanmixer said:


> Huh? There is no second legato for strings in BBCSO.


quoted the same thing...no reply. Maybe he got confused with another library, or found something we missed..


----------



## EricValette

jaketanner said:


> quoted the same thing...no reply. Maybe he got confused with another library, or found something we missed..


Hi Jake,

BBCSO is not currently installed on my PC, but if you have the pro version, I think I remember that you have to go to the "techniques editor" tab of each instrument to be able to select an additional, simpler version of the legato patch but that actually often sounds better. If it helps ...
It seems to me that Core and Discover do not offer this option.


----------



## jaketanner

EricValette said:


> Hi Jake,
> 
> BBCSO is currently not installed on my PC, but if you have the pro version, I think I remember that you have to go to the "techniques editor" tab of each instrument to be able to select an additional version that is simpler but which actually often sounds better from the legato patch. If it helps ...
> It seems to me that Core and Discover do not offer this option.


Yes..this is for the brass and winds..NOT strings though, which I think are the instruments in question. And there is no "performance Legato" in BBC...it's Legato (extended) or simply Legato. Hence the confusion.


----------



## CT

EricValette said:


> Can you tell us a bit more about how you did this?
> 
> This is one of the most convincing "demos" for BBCSO that I have heard so far (okay, I'm also a great lover of the "Lord of the Rings" sound, I admit it must influence my opinion ).
> 
> Apart from the choir, everything is only BBCSO? Usually, to achieve this really particular type of sound, I use EWHO which works wonderfully (with quite a few additions of other libraries here and there to correct some weaknesses) but your use of BBCSO could well make me reconsider this choice, at least in part! !
> 
> Bravo Mike!



Yeah that's all BBCSO plus Eric Whitacre Choir.

I'm sorry I can't be very specific since I did this a while ago and tend to not save project files. I do know that it was a basic tree/outrigger/ambient mix, in accordance with the diagram of John Kurlander's original recording setup, possibly with some mids on winds, brass, and percussion. I also know that I boosted (Pultec, if it matters) the high end around 14k more than I'd normally dare, to get closer to the amount of "air" in the original. Probably could have gone even more extreme actually.

Sorry, correction: I'm now remembering that this was mostly just the tree, no outriggers or ambients. Some added mid detail like I said though.


----------



## muk

Ashermusic said:


> Linos, that is really good.



Thank you Jay!



jaketanner said:


> I have BBCSO Pro, and there is only ONE legato patch for the strings... am I missing something?



Nope, my mistake. I was answering from off the top of my head and thought the strings had the same legato only patch that some of the woodwinds and brass have. But they don't. So for the long strings notes, it's all the legato patch that loads up by default.


----------



## EricValette

Mike T said:


> Yeah that's all BBCSO plus Eric Whitacre Choir.
> 
> I'm sorry I can't be very specific since I did this a while ago and tend to not save project files. I do know that it was a basic tree/outrigger/ambient mix, in accordance with the diagram of John Kurlander's original recording setup, possibly with some mids on winds, brass, and percussion. I also know that I boosted (Pultec, if it matters) the high end around 14k more than I'd normally dare, to get closer to the amount of "air" in the original. Probably could have gone even more extreme actually.
> 
> Sorry, correction: I'm now remembering that this was mostly just the tree, no outriggers or ambients. Some added mid detail like I said though.



Thank you so much Mike, it's very helpful! 

I believe you seriously motivated me to take a serious turn on the BBCSO side again, because with so few mics activated and only one library (EWC aside), it sounds as good as my "_Frankenstein_ orchestra" with 3-4 positions activated by section and layering in all corners to match the LOTR reference sound.

One last thing, do you remember what reverb plugin did you used? It seems to me that it could be VSS3 or 7th heaven, but maybe I'm completely wrong...


----------



## CT

EricValette said:


> Thank you so much Mike, it's very helpful!
> 
> I believe you seriously motivated me to take a serious turn on the BBCSO side again, because with so few mics activated and only one library (EWC aside), it sounds as good as my "_Frankenstein_ orchestra" with 3-4 positions activated by section and layering in all corners to match the LOTR reference sound.
> 
> One last thing, do you remember what reverb plugin did you used? It seems to me that it could be VSS3 or 7th heaven, but maybe I'm completely wrong...



Yes, Seventh Heaven. North Church, I think.

By the way, I'm glad you're motivated to give it another go. It makes me sad to think that so many people here have libraries, BBCSO or not, which they've spent appreciable sums on, just sitting around for whatever reason. 

There's always something to nitpick, but ultimately I just don't believe there is much truly in the way of getting great results with any of the modern tools we have available, and people would see that if they took a break from endless buying and focused on something.


----------



## Ashermusic

Mike T said:


> There's always something to nitpick, but ultimately I just don't believe there is much truly in the way of getting great results with any of the modern tools we have available, and people would see that if they took a break from endless buying and focused on something.




Yep.


----------



## Fleer

Jay, did you get BBCSO? If so, what is your take (and comparison to EWHO)?


----------



## Ashermusic

Fleer said:


> Jay, did you get BBCSO? If so, what is your take (and comparison to EWHO)?



Only the free version. I just can't justify the cost of buying another big orchestra library.

But I really do like the way BBCSO sounds and I like that it isn't as wet as the Air Lyndhurst Spitfire libraries to work with, although obviously that venue sounds lovely.

Bottom line, if EWHO went away tomorrow, I think it would be my choice.


----------



## Fleer

Thanks Jay, coming from you that means a lot (to me most certainly).


----------



## OleJoergensen

My first attemp with BBCSO (Berlin brass added). It still needs some work. 
Constructive suggestions are appreciated


----------



## jaketanner

OleJoergensen said:


> My first attemp with BBCSO (Berlin brass added). It still needs some work.
> Constructive suggestions are appreciated



Sounds great. I assume this is the Core version? Doesn't sound as wide as it should I guess...but the strings are fantastic...I have the Pro, and can't wait to work with it....great job though.


----------



## OleJoergensen

jaketanner said:


> Sounds great. I assume this is the Core version? Doesn't sound as wide as it should I guess...but the strings are fantastic...I have the Pro, and can't wait to work with it....great job though.


Thank you Jake. 
it is the pro version.... unless I have opened otherwise. I use a medium hall reverb, maybe its why...?


----------



## jaketanner

OleJoergensen said:


> Thank you Jake.
> it is the pro version.... unless I have opened otherwise. I use a medium hall reverb, maybe its why...?


Seemed like the shorts were hard to place stereo wise. And I thought you had short cellos at one point and didn’t seem that far right. Maybe it’s the mic choices?


----------



## OleJoergensen

jaketanner said:


> Seemed like the shorts were hard to place stereo wise. And I thought you had short cellos at one point and didn’t seem that far right. Maybe it’s the mic choices?


It could be. For the strings I use Mix1 + close (40%) + leader mic (-5 db).


----------



## jaketanner

OleJoergensen said:


> It could be. For the strings I use Mix1 + close (40%) + leader mic (-5 db).


Possibly. Just listened again and seems very narrow to me overall. Also, did you use violin 2 spiccato for the shorts?


----------



## OleJoergensen

jaketanner said:


> Seemed like the shorts were hard to place stereo wise. And I thought you had short cellos at one point and didn’t seem that far right. Maybe it’s the mic choices?


Thank you for pointing this out. Ive just discovered there is an adjustment for close/spot signals, Ive changed them to 90 %, changed close mic from 40% to 30% and changed release from 50% to 70%.

I will upload later.


----------



## OleJoergensen

jaketanner said:


> Possibly. Just listened again and seems very narrow to me overall. Also, did you use violin 2 spiccato for the shorts?


Spiccato for 1st, 2nd violin and Viola...


----------



## OleJoergensen

Updated version...



Staffpad version:


----------



## jaketanner

OleJoergensen said:


> Updated version...
> 
> 
> 
> Staffpad version:



I like it better...but YOU have to like it also, not just because I mentioned it.. LOL. Anyway, those extra mics are the weapons to making things sound nice and wide and clear...lots of choices.


----------



## OleJoergensen

jaketanner said:


> I like it better...but YOU have to like it also, not just because I mentioned it.. LOL. Anyway, those extra mics are the weapons to making things sound nice and wide and clear...lots of choices.


I do like it better . I think I will return to 40 % close mics maybe 35 .
It sounds much more clear when Listing direct from Logic through a good interface, then after it has been uploaded to Youtube... 
Anyway, thank you for bringing my attention to pan of the close mics!


----------



## jaketanner

OleJoergensen said:


> I do like it better . I think I will return to 40 % close mics maybe 35 .
> It sounds much more clear when Listing direct from Logic through a good interface, then after it has been uploaded to Youtube...
> Anyway, thank you for bringing my attention to pan of the close mics!


Cool...BTW, just got an Alto and Triple Horn solo to go with The BBC...from VSl. They have a BOGO sale, and for $43 for the two, it's worth every penny to supplement. Looking to get the Eupohnium and a flute 1 to add also...ends on the 2nd. If you're interested, get it through Audiodeluxe.com. much cheaper and faster service. Sign up for their free account, and you'll see the discounts in your cart.


----------



## Cormast

Hello there !

Anyone have some unexpected jump of sound after releasing keys when *"untimed"* option is activated or is it just me ? Spiccato patch from violin I leader for example here. It's a bit anoying.

Have a good day all !


----------



## Hooo

Cormast said:


> Hello there !
> 
> Anyone have some unexpected jump of sound after releasing keys when *"untimed"* option is activated or is it just me ? Spiccato patch from violin I leader for example here. It's a bit anoying.
> 
> Have a good day all !



I could be wrong, but isn't that the intended behaviour, so you can choose when the release sample hits by when the midi information sends the release trigger? 

I would think that choosing "timed" or "none" in the options for short releases would be the proper setting for 99% of applications so that the release sample sounds on time, or not at all. 

Again, I could be wrong. It doesn't talk about the short release options in the manual other than to show that the option is there. (Page 16 in the Core manual, page 19 in the Pro manual)


----------



## Sean

I just got Discover but I find the sound of this library to be pretty meh to me. Of course I realize this is a free library that's like 400mb, but is it safe to assume if I don't like the sound of Discover I probably won't like the sound of Core either? It just sounds so muddy to me.


----------



## Mike Fox

Sean said:


> I just got Discover but I find the sound of this library to be pretty meh to me. Of course I realize this is a free library that's like 400mb, but is it safe to assume if I don't like the sound of Discover I probably won't like the sound of Core either? It just sounds so muddy to me.


Extra mics can make a big difference, but the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.


----------



## John R Wilson

Sean said:


> I just got Discover but I find the sound of this library to be pretty meh to me. Of course I realize this is a free library that's like 400mb, but is it safe to assume if I don't like the sound of Discover I probably won't like the sound of Core either? It just sounds so muddy to me.



I'm not too sure as I dont use Discover but I believe it also has additional reverb applied to it. The mix mic in Core version is quite wet and can get quite muddy. To really have control of the mix and make it drier sounding you would need the pro version.


----------



## Sean

Mike Fox said:


> Extra mics can make a big difference, but the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.





John R Wilson said:


> I'm not too sure as I dont use Discover but I believe it also has additional reverb applied to it. The mix mic in Core version is quite wet and can get quite muddy. To really have control of the mix and make it drier sounding you would need the pro version.


Gotchya it may just not be my cup of tea then. I think other than the Violin 2 (which sound really bad to me), the strings sound fine, but the brass sound rather horrible to me. There's just so much reverb.


----------



## Brasart

BBCSO Discover is 170mb, has 1 dynamic layer and applied reverb on top of Mix1 mic; if you want to judge if the library is for you I think it's better you check out Core or/and Pro listening to demos and watching the countless walkthroughs/playthoughs availabe on Youtube


----------



## Sean

Brasart said:


> BBCSO Discover is 170mb, has 1 dynamic layer and applied reverb on top of Mix1 mic; if you want to judge if the library is for you I think it's better you check out Core or/and Pro listening to demos and watching the countless walkthroughs/playthoughs availabe on Youtube


Glad to know it adds extra reverb on top, I think that's making a big difference on my impression of it. I like the sound of Core and Pro from what I've heard, but I usually have trouble determining if I'll like a library just by demos because the demos always sound good to me. Even listening to YouTube videos of the out of the box sound isn't the same as playing it myself.


----------



## synthetic

I only wish they had recorded a few more dynamic layers for the string longs and legato. Those are the bread and butter of anyone's template and they could have used a bit more time. The winds and percussion are great. I dont really use the brass. It sounds like they're going in to re-record the piano (according to the Albion v AR c BBC video.) I didn't need the 25 mic positions. One or two more layers in the string longs and it would be a whole new level. The room sounds great and there's not too much of it.

I'm not excited about AR yet. It sounds as roomy as Air if not more. I had the Air samples in my template for a long time and it was just too much cave reverb on everything. Nice for long footballs but takes a bunch of work if you're writing busier than that IMO. Obviously others have had much more success with those as they're the standard for orchestral samples.


----------



## jaketanner

Sean said:


> I think other than the Violin 2 (which sound really bad to me), the strings sound fine, but the brass sound rather horrible to me.


The violin 2 sounds fine aside from the spiccato articulation in the Pro version. I got the Pro based off my tests with Discover. I knew that it was a VERY limited library, and yet I was able to write with it and the sound worked for me...the strings are what really sold the library...and the winds. The brass is passable...but I recently got a few solo instruments to supplement it's short comings, and I have other brass libraries so wasn't too worried about it.


----------



## Sean

jaketanner said:


> The violin 2 sounds fine aside from the spiccato articulation in the Pro version. I got the Pro based off my tests with Discover. I knew that it was a VERY limited library, and yet I was able to write with it and the sound worked for me...the strings are what really sold the library...and the winds. The brass is passable...but I recently got a few solo instruments to supplement it's short comings, and I have other brass libraries so wasn't too worried about it.


I find the violin 2 sustain much too harsh which makes it stick out.

I'm wondering if HWB with maybe some reverb would blend well enough with this library? That's my only other brass lib at the moment.


----------



## jaketanner

Sean said:


> I find the violin 2 sustain much too harsh which makes it stick out.


But you are comparing it with Discover right? That has only one dynamic layer and is processed. 

I don't have HWB so can't answer that, but you can try blending it with Discover and see if the tones match...meaning the overall brightness. Don't worry much about the reverb or room tone matching...more so the tones need to blend.

Are you considering to get Pro? Otherwise you will be stuck with one mic position again, but you will have full dynamic range.


----------



## Sean

jaketanner said:


> But you are comparing it with Discover right? That has only one dynamic layer and is processed.
> 
> I don't have HWB so can't answer that, but you can try blending it with Discover and see if the tones match...meaning the overall brightness. Don't worry much about the reverb or room tone matching...more so the tones need to blend.
> 
> Are you considering to get Pro? Otherwise you will be stuck with one mic position again, but you will have full dynamic range.


So discover is also processed? I’m surprised they altered it so much i assumed it was just stripped down. I wasnt considering pro for now since I’m just a hobbyist. if i use it a lot and like it I’d maybe get pro during another sale.


----------



## jaketanner

Sean said:


> So discover is also processed? I’m surprised they altered it so much i assumed it was just stripped down. I wasnt considering pro for now since I’m just a hobbyist. if i use it a lot and like it I’d maybe get pro during another sale.


What do you mean "also" processed...what else is processed? Did I misunderstand and we are not talking about BBC Discover?


----------



## Sean

jaketanner said:


> What do you mean "also" processed...what else is processed? Did I misunderstand and we are not talking about BBC Discover?


Sorry by also i mean it’s processed in addition to added reverb.


----------



## jaketanner

Sean said:


> Sorry by also i mean it’s processed in addition to added reverb.


Oh..not sure what trickery they used, but the there are LESS dynamic layers and LESS samples as well...so you are not getting the full sound of the library...it's a super skinny version that gives you an "idea" of the library's capability. In the full version the violin 2 Longs patch alone is 300 MB...the entire Discover is about 200 MB...to give you a perspective and the violin 1 legato is 565 MB alone. Discover is very scaled down...have you listened to all the demos on Spitfire's The Page?






Demos — THE PAGE







www.spitfireaudiothepage.com


----------



## Sean

jaketanner said:


> Oh..not sure what trickery they used, but the there are LESS dynamic layers and LESS samples as well...so you are not getting the full sound of the library...it's a super skinny version that gives you an "idea" of the library's capability. In the full version the violin 2 Longs patch alone is 300 MB...the entire Discover is about 200 MB...to give you a perspective and the violin 1 legato is 565 MB alone. Discover is very scaled down...have you listened to all the demos on Spitfire's The Page?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Demos — THE PAGE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spitfireaudiothepage.com


Yea I've listened to the demos which sound great. I think I'll likely still get the Core version in this case on Black Friday. The harshness of the violin 2 might also just be because it's dynamic layer is forte or so when I don't want it to be.


----------



## jaketanner

Sean said:


> Yea I've listened to the demos which sound great. I think I'll likely still get the Core version in this case on Black Friday. The harshness of the violin 2 might also just be because it's dynamic layer is forte or so when I don't want it to be.


Good call. You can always upgrade from there.


----------



## Sean

jaketanner said:


> Good call. You can always upgrade from there.


Thanks for the help and info!


----------



## jaketanner

Sean said:


> Thanks for the help and info!


glad to help, I think you'll like it.


----------



## Fleer

I highly appreciate this comparison:

Found it in another thread but is very appropriate for BBCSO. Mr Henson also added that there is a lot more stuff recorded for BBCSO still being developed.


----------



## AllanH

Sean said:


> I find the violin 2 sustain much too harsh which makes it stick out.
> 
> I'm wondering if HWB with maybe some reverb would blend well enough with this library? That's my only other brass lib at the moment.



I've made HWB fit with BBCSO, but it took a bit of work. I've archived the project, but my recollection is that I chose the Reynolds hall for HWB for size and distance, adjusted panning, and maybe rolled off the highs a bit. The biggest pratical issue is the HWB is closer and far more "in your face" than BBCSO. On the other hand, HWB does add the missing presence especially at the higher dynamics.


----------



## CT

After spending the first year with this mostly focused on the standard mic positions and mixes, I'm only just now starting to explore what the more specialized stuff offers. If you've been stubbornly avoiding that like me, stop being dopey. They don't offer these options for nothing....


----------



## Fleer

AllanH said:


> I've made HWB fit with BBCSO, but it took a bit of work. I've archived the project, but my recollection is that I chose the Reynolds hall for HWB for size and distance, adjusted panning, and maybe rolled off the highs a bit. The biggest pratical issue is the HWB is closer and far more "in your face" than BBCSO. On the other hand, HWB does add the missing presence especially at the higher dynamics.


I’m still on the original Spaces. Which other hall would be similar to the Reynolds in Spaces II?


----------



## jaketanner

Fleer said:


> I’m still on the original Spaces. Which other hall would be similar to the Reynolds in Spaces II?


Reynolds is part of SPACES II...You have others, but won't lose Reynolds.


----------



## Fleer

Indeed, Jake, which is why I’m wondering which hall in Spaces I resembles the Reynolds in Spaces II.


----------



## jaketanner

Fleer said:


> Indeed, Jake, which is why I’m wondering which hall in Spaces I resembles the Reynolds in Spaces II.


I didn't realize they were different. I have SPACES I also, but never did any a/b tests...


----------



## Fleer

Yeah, apparently they kept the same rooms and halls of Spaces I but then added some more in Spaces II.


----------



## jaketanner

I know this must have been covered before, but does setting the pre load samples to the minimum of 1000, reduce the samples used, or simply the samples loaded? Example, I loaded up the marcato only for Vin 1...it's default RAM is higher than the legato patch...using TREE mic only. SO I lowered the samples to minimum and went to about 440MB...working on my template and want it to be efficient when it loads. Is this the best way to keep RAM down? Thanks


----------



## Fleer

I did get some pointers here, Jake:


----------



## jaketanner

Fleer said:


> I did get some pointers here, Jake:



I think it's a bug...because what happens is I off loaded (inactive) all tracks except the Legato patch...318MB RAM...then I activated the rest of the strings...over 2 GIGS...on ALL GUIs, no matter the patch...some slightly less, but it seems that it's cumulative. So that I am not looking at each articulation's RAM footprint, I am seeing the entire section...so it seems. This also happens with brass...one instance is about 650 MB with nothing else active...soon as I bring in the strings, back up to nearly a gig...something's wrong... LOL

I am on Pro Tools, BTW, but this shouldn't make a difference, I hope.

Oh, and this is with minimum Pre Load...if I leave the pre-load to default...the RAM goes well over 5 gigs... LOL. I have a fast SSD T7...so I have it at 1000 pre load, but damn what's going on?


----------



## Fleer

I hope it’s not Pro Tools, Jake. I’m on Logic Pro myself.


----------



## jaketanner

Fleer said:


> I hope it’s not Pro Tools, Jake. I’m on Logic Pro myself.


So this doesn't happen to you? One articulation per GUI shows the proper RAM no matter how many instances are active right? I sent SF a ticket to see if it is PT...I can work around it...if it's just a matter of showing the RAM, I don't care, as long as PT is not computing more RAM than what's actually being used...


----------



## styledelk

jaketanner said:


> So this doesn't happen to you? One articulation per GUI shows the proper RAM no matter how many instances are active right? I sent SF a ticket to see if it is PT...I can work around it...if it's just a matter of showing the RAM, I don't care, as long as PT is not computing more RAM than what's actually being used...


 You could probably see that in the Activity Monitor on Mac or Task Manager on PC, right?
Give a little extra for overhead, but you’ll see roughly the right ballpark.


----------



## jaketanner

styledelk said:


> You could probably see that in the Activity Monitor on Mac or Task Manager on PC, right?
> Give a little extra for overhead, but you’ll see roughly the right ballpark.


True. I can check the monitor later on and see.


----------



## jaketanner

styledelk said:


> You could probably see that in the Activity Monitor on Mac or Task Manager on PC, right?
> Give a little extra for overhead, but you’ll see roughly the right ballpark.


So seems that it's cumulative..got word back from SF. The GUI shows the total RAM...I think this should reflect ONLY the individual patch.

Anyone know just how large a full BBC Pro template would be? I'm half way there and about 30 gigs.


----------



## Brasart

jaketanner said:


> So seems that it's cumulative..got word back from SF. The GUI shows the total RAM...I think this should reflect ONLY the individual patch.
> 
> Anyone know just how large a full BBC Pro template would be? I'm half way there and about 30 gigs.



I'm pretty sure Christian did a full template with a RAM count in Logic back when they were launching BBCSO


----------



## styledelk

jaketanner said:


> So seems that it's cumulative..got word back from SF. The GUI shows the total RAM...I think this should reflect ONLY the individual patch.
> 
> Anyone know just how large a full BBC Pro template would be? I'm half way there and about 30 gigs.



Ahh, yes. Sorry, I thought you already knew that that's what it was doing!
My imagination says they should make that number clickable and it toggles between All Instances and This Instance.


----------



## jaketanner

styledelk said:


> Ahh, yes. Sorry, I thought you already knew that that's what it was doing!
> My imagination says they should make that number clickable and it toggles between All Instances and This Instance.


Yeah was driving me nuts...LOL Why on earth is this a good thing? I can understand maybe knowing the total, BUT..it should have both on there so I know who the culprits are.


----------



## styledelk

jaketanner said:


> Yeah was driving me nuts...LOL Why on earth is this a good thing? I can understand maybe knowing the total, BUT..it should have both on there so I know who the culprits are.



It's kind of a toe-dip into it being a platform and a multi-timbral-of-sorts. It makes sense to me, but I know I allow them a lot more leeway to be different than just a clone of other players.


----------



## jaketanner

Brasart said:


> I'm pretty sure Christian did a full template with a RAM count in Logic back when they were launching BBCSO


Yes I remember that...need to check it out again. Thanks.


----------



## jaketanner

Hey all...came across this while paper about the acoustics of Maida Vale...it gives reverb times and EQ curves/responses...it's fairly old, but don't think ti was altered since...might come in handy to create the acoustic space for dry samples to blend in. . Enjoy.


----------



## Trevor Meier

That's a great artefact! Does anyone know if they ever increased the ceiling height like the document says was planned?


----------



## jaketanner

Trevor Meier said:


> That's a great artefact! Does anyone know if they ever increased the ceiling height like the document says was planned?


According to what I read it was not done due to expense.


----------



## Fleer

Interesting paper. Makes you wonder indeed if they changed the ceiling height. Also, didn’t hear more news about demolishing or repurposing. I do hope Spitfire have recorded everything they need for future development of BBCSO.


----------



## Fleer

40% off for BF. Plus the Aperture Orchestra for free. Pretty, pretty good.


----------



## Cormast

I spent several month tweaking mic positions in this library, and I only realise now that mix 01 is really nice sounding after all to me  specially combined with other libraries a bit dryer. How do you do it after a year using it ?


----------



## OleJoergensen

Cormast said:


> I spent several month tweaking mic positions in this library, and I only realise now that mix 01 is really nice sounding after all to me  specially combined with other libraries a bit dryer. How do you do it after a year using it ?


With the Strings I like Mix1 +40% close mic+ leader -5 db


----------



## Brasart

Cormast said:


> I spent several month tweaking mic positions in this library, and I only realise now that mix 01 is really nice sounding after all to me  specially combined with other libraries a bit dryer. How do you do it after a year using it ?



I went the other way around, pretty much only used Mix1 at the start, and now I'm moving away from it pretty often — not because I don't like its sound, it's still my favorite, but because BBCSO Pro is actually such a powerful versatile toolkit in terms of tone when using all of its mics, I think I needed a bit of time to fully digest the whole library and then the whole mic array.


----------



## Trevor Meier

Brasart said:


> I went the other way around, pretty much only used Mix1 at the start, and now I'm moving away from it pretty often — not because I don't like its sound, it's still my favorite, but because BBCSO Pro is actually such a powerful versatile toolkit in terms of tone when using all of its mics, I think I needed a bit of time to fully digest the whole library and then the whole mic array.



What mic mix combos have you found yourself using often?


----------



## Brasart

Trevor Meier said:


> What mic mix combos have you found yourself using often?



I'm not really looking for combos, but I do love the CloseWide on leader/solo instruments, I've used it quite a lot paired with the tree/mids/stereo.
I think the second mic page can bring quite interesting tones to the instruments.

Otherwise I just dial mics in and out, like sometimes just a tree mic is great in dense mixes


----------



## CT

Cormast said:


> I spent several month tweaking mic positions in this library, and I only realise now that mix 01 is really nice sounding after all to me  specially combined with other libraries a bit dryer. How do you do it after a year using it ?



You'll flip back to wanting to do your own mixes. 

Well, actually who knows. But I did. I find Mix 1 to be a little too present, and overall I've come to feel, with virtual instruments in general, that stacking mic positions does more to compromise the sound than to help it. I prefer to use just one overall position with subtle help from one or two others on certain players. I think BBCSO in particular is at its strongest when allowed to breathe in a more transparent, classical mix.

The disclaimer, as always, is I'm usually after a sound that might not be the typical preference for people here.


----------



## Theladur

I am thinking of upgrading my BBCSO Core to Pro during this Black-Friday Sale, and therefore had another look at the differences of both Editions.

I had looked at it some time before, but I can't remember that the Brass had muted Articulations.





The Core Edition page also states
"*UPDATE CONTENT:*

35gb of new and updated content
New Muted Brass techniques
New ‘Extended’ Legatos for a selection of Brass and Woodwinds instruments
Updated legatos for Flute and Strings
Various bug fixes, tweaks and optimisations"
Is this a new update coming (soon)?


----------



## styledelk

Haven't seen that update come in yet...


----------



## Bluemount Score

Theladur said:


> I am thinking of upgrading my BBCSO Core to Pro during this Black-Friday Sale, and therefore had another look at the differences of both Editions.
> 
> I had looked at it some time before, but I can't remember that the Brass had muted Articulations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Core Edition page also states
> "*UPDATE CONTENT:*
> 
> 35gb of new and updated content
> New Muted Brass techniques
> New ‘Extended’ Legatos for a selection of Brass and Woodwinds instruments
> Updated legatos for Flute and Strings
> Various bug fixes, tweaks and optimisations"
> Is this a new update coming (soon)?


Wow!!! This looks promising. Nice find. Hope it's coming soon, just checked and it's not available yet.


----------



## CT

I had a feeling....


----------



## Fleer

... that tonight’s gonna be ...


----------



## Bluemount Score

... a good night.


----------



## styledelk

Someone should alert the Black Weekend threads and throw a wrench in everyone's pocketbook. Honestly, why is there always a wrench in there? And how did it get there? What do you even use a wrench on?


----------



## Kevperry777

Dang. That more than doubles the size of core!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Kevperry777 said:


> Dang. That doubles the size of core!


Yea, I wonder how that's possible and also how big the Update for Pro is gonna be...


----------



## Fleer

And we’re not even talking piano here.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Fleer said:


> And we’re not even talking piano here.


This one is not recorded yet. Spitfire would like to, but due to Covid it's difficult right now. Got that from one of Christian's latest videos.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

A moment of silence for all those who claimed Spitfire had abandoned BBCSO.  That big of an update within ~12 months of initial release, during a pandemic, would be very impressive.


----------



## CT

Looking over things (Professional version), here's what I see:

Extended legato patches for most of the solo woodwinds and brass that didn't already have them, and it seems the existing ones have been tweaked.

Muted longs and shorts for the brass.

A cimbasso!

Not bad at all... still no harmonics in the harp though. Time to get The Ton I suppose.


----------



## Jacob Fanto

I wonder why this update isn't displaying under Pro? Surely they wouldn't just give Core this update...


----------



## styledelk

Jacob Fanto said:


> I wonder why this update isn't displaying under Pro? Surely they wouldn't just give Core this update...



It's more or less in the articulation list  Just not called out. I imagine this was, perhaps, accidentally pushed live as part of the same branch the Black Weekend was on.


----------



## John R Wilson

Theladur said:


> I am thinking of upgrading my BBCSO Core to Pro during this Black-Friday Sale, and therefore had another look at the differences of both Editions.
> 
> I had looked at it some time before, but I can't remember that the Brass had muted Articulations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Core Edition page also states
> "*UPDATE CONTENT:*
> 
> 35gb of new and updated content
> New Muted Brass techniques
> New ‘Extended’ Legatos for a selection of Brass and Woodwinds instruments
> Updated legatos for Flute and Strings
> Various bug fixes, tweaks and optimisations"
> Is this a new update coming (soon)?




This sounds great and looks really promising!! Particularly interested to see the updates they have done to the strings legatos!!


----------



## AEF

The updates have definitely been great, but I would still kill to have real staccatos and marcato shorts in the section strings.


----------



## CT

There are staccatos.


----------



## AEF

Mike T said:


> There are staccatos.



That play like spiccatos or staccatissimo at best.


----------



## dylanmixer

@paulthomson @Spitfire Team 

The cats out of the bag. When's it coming 😏


----------



## CT

AEF said:


> That play like spiccatos or staccatissimo at best.



They sound like staccatos to me: short notes on the string. That's really all staccato means. The actual length is pretty variable in real music, but you have to decide on something to sample.


----------



## AEF

Mike T said:


> They sound like staccatos to me: short notes on the string. That's really all staccato means. The actual length is pretty variable in real music, but you have to decide on something to sample.



Short notes on the string relative to what tempo? These staccs aren’t suitable for medium or slower tempi. Perhaps you have an example of such youd like to display?


----------



## jaketanner

With the mic options, I find it very hard to a/b positions without a solo...or a way to see all mics, or to quickly switch between a locked setup...like if there was a way to LINK a set of mics, then I can switch between linked mics quickly...but man what a pain it is to compare against mix 1...(not my favorite)...I use about 6 other mic positions to get the sound I want.

How do you guys compare mics without having to set up multiple instances?


----------



## dzilizzi

I am now the proud owner of BBCSO Pro! And a month before I was expecting to be able to get it. Plus Aperture Orchestra. Now if only Berlin Strings would finish downloading so I could start the BBCSO download. I had to redo the download on that because half the samples were missing. Sigh.


----------



## CT

AEF said:


> Short notes on the string relative to what tempo? These staccs aren’t suitable for medium or slower tempi. Perhaps you have an example of such youd like to display?



That's exactly what I'm saying. "Staccato" is just a particular bow/string interaction, and its actual length varies based on tempo. When sampling, you've gotta decide how to handle that. Some libraries have very leisurely staccatos that don't work well for faster music. Some have the opposite. Few have both, unfortunately. Regardless, the marcatos (or something more like portato/detache) you mentioned would be more useful for slower tempo music than slightly broader staccatos. Would like to see them added to the full section strings as the leader ones are very nice.


----------



## Jacob Fanto

dzilizzi said:


> I am now the proud owner of BBCSO Pro! And a month before I was expecting to be able to get it. Plus Aperture Orchestra. Now if only Berlin Strings would finish downloading so I could start the BBCSO download. I had to redo the download on that because half the samples were missing. Sigh.


Your poor SSD... but congrats!!


----------



## dzilizzi

Jacob Fanto said:


> Your poor SSD... but congrats!!


The SSD isn't the problem, the lack of USB ports may be.....


----------



## Jacob Fanto

dzilizzi said:


> The SSD isn't the problem, the lack of USB ports may be.....


Yikes. Do you have a hub?


----------



## dzilizzi

Jacob Fanto said:


> Yikes. Do you have a hub?


Yes. It is full. I can remove backup drives. I've been trying to clean a bunch up and organize it all. But I can do the rest on another computer.


----------



## Yogevs

dzilizzi said:


> The SSD isn't the problem, the lack of USB ports may be.....



Would any SSD USB external drive would work by the way?


----------



## Bluemount Score

I'm somewhat wondering if all that new content was already recorded from the beginning and just laying around on a hard drive at spitfire...


----------



## muadgil

Well... I was decided that this BF, I would get SCS only. But the discount is not that great... 
Now I see I can get BBCSO core for 220€ (I have discover). I guess that is a no brainer? 
SCS will wait Christmas and the 40% discount.


----------



## wayne_rowley

I have Core and am very tempted to upgrade to Pro. Pro users - do you think it’s worth upgrading?


----------



## gussunkri

Bluemount Score said:


> I'm somewhat wondering if all that new content was already recorded from the beginning and just laying around on a hard drive at spitfire...


That is quite possible, and fully understandable IMHO. My impression is that the recording is the least time consuming part of making a library.


----------



## paulthomson

haha.. whooops.

OK its coming. we're still testing the update so it won't be during the BF period - hopefully in about a week or two when its fully tested and any little bugs ironed out.

BTW - the 35GB number is for PRO (mics) - the number is lower for CORE - the main size is the muted Brass stuff, but you'll also LOVE the new updated legatos..


----------



## holywilly

Did Paul just say “legato”?


----------



## Bluemount Score

The updated articulation list is gone again. But now it can't be unseen


----------



## ed buller

paulthomson said:


> haha.. whooops.
> 
> OK its coming. we're still testing the update so it won't be during the BF period - hopefully in about a week or two when its fully tested and any little bugs ironed out.
> 
> BTW - the 35GB number is for PRO (mics) - the number is lower for CORE - the main size is the muted Brass stuff, but you'll also LOVE the new updated legatos..




did you tweak the French Horns..any new high dynamics ?

best

e


----------



## Brasart

What fantastic news, so excited for this!


----------



## dmann7

I just bought BBC Pro- very excited to get started with this. I downloaded the strings first- but it's not showing up in logic or pro tools in the spitfire plugin- and the spitfire app keeps telling me I need to repair it- but using the repair function doesn't seem to fix the problem. (I recently bought Intimate Strings so I am familiar with the app and the spitfire plugin- that install went fine). I contacted Spitfire support- hopefully they will respond quickly- but anyone have any similar issues installing BBC? Any tips to get this going? I'm on a MacBook Pro with 10.15.7
Thanks!


----------



## yiph2

dmann7 said:


> I just bought BBC Pro- very excited to get started with this. I downloaded the strings first- but it's not showing up in logic or pro tools in the spitfire plugin- and the spitfire app keeps telling me I need to repair it- but using the repair function doesn't seem to fix the problem. (I recently bought Intimate Strings so I am familiar with the app and the spitfire plugin- that install went fine). I contacted Spitfire support- hopefully they will respond quickly- but anyone have any similar issues installing BBC? Any tips to get this going? I'm on a MacBook Pro with 10.15.7
> Thanks!


I think you need to download everything first (or at least the plugin) so it will work


----------



## dmann7

yiph2 said:


> I think you need to download everything first (or at least the plugin) so it will work


Thank you- I think the plugin gets installed with the download- at least it did with Intimate Strings which I recently installed. I am now trying to get the BBC discover to work as a test- that is also stuck in a loop where it keeps asking me to repair it. Spitfire tech support did respond but still working on it- not fixed yet.


----------



## dzilizzi

Yogevs said:


> Would any SSD USB external drive would work by the way?


I buy an internal drive and an enclosure. Not as fast as a SATA drive, but works fine for me.


----------



## dmann7

All sorted out and installed- thanks to Spitfire for very quick tech support! Excited to get into this awesome library!


----------



## Trevor Meier

Took the plunge on Pro... what an inspiring library. 

So it’s inevitable to ask... what are your tips & tricks for matching to Abbey Road One? @paulthomson @christianhenson this might make for a good tutorial


----------



## Fleer

When deciding between BBCSO (Core) and AR One I’m pretty convinced the former is the better choice. Not only because you can upgrade to Pro, but also because BBCSO has two major arguments in play: legendary players in a legendary room, while AR One only has the latter to boast.


----------



## Rory

Trevor Meier said:


> Took the plunge on Pro... what an inspiring library.
> 
> So it’s inevitable to ask... what are your tips & tricks for matching to Abbey Road One? @paulthomson @christianhenson this might make for a good tutorial



Henson has posted a video to YouTube on this very question.


----------



## CT

Well, the players in each are perhaps a different type of "legendary." I would not turn my nose up at any session players in London.


----------



## hessproject

PS for the noobs to the library like myself, Spitfire has official templates for a lot of different DAWs that are well worth checking out. Not too heavyweight either, with all instruments loaded for Core, Spitfire player shows 9.98GB memory usage (for the Logic version)


----------



## darthdeus

hessproject said:


> PS for the noobs to the library like myself, Spitfire has official templates for a lot of different DAWs that are well worth checking out. Not too heavyweight either, with all instruments loaded for Core, Spitfire player shows 9.98GB memory usage



You mean these right? https://www.spitfireaudiothepage.com/templates


----------



## hessproject

darthdeus said:


> You mean these right? https://www.spitfireaudiothepage.com/templates



Yep! There's unfortunately not one for every articulation loaded on it's own track, but they do split it up between longs/shorts/pizz so at least the keyswitching is pretty manageable. I found it to be a decent workflow for me and helped me get started working with the library pretty quickly. Also the "groups" setting (at least in logic, not sure about other DAWs) makes it really easy to record as an ensemble vs individual instruments if you prefer that too.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Mornats said:


> Spitfire: We're not doing a subscription.
> Everyone at VI-control: It's a subscription.
> 
> Maybe it's something else folks...


This gets brought up every time


----------



## dzilizzi

ProfoundSilence said:


> This gets brought up every time


I think it has become a joke now..... They need to port all their libraries to Spitfire Player to really do this successfully. I don’t know how NI would work with temporary licenses. I think it wouldn’t be worth it to Spitfire, though I guess they could reuse the licenses.


----------



## Trevor Meier

Rory said:


> Henson has posted a video to YouTube on this very question.



Can you point me to it? I haven’t been able to find it


----------



## Yogevs

Trevor Meier said:


> Can you point me to it? I haven’t been able to find it


----------



## Trevor Meier

Yogevs said:


>




Thanks! I had watched this one but I suppose I’d like some more in-depth techniques. Adding Large Warm Hall splosh and calling it a day is certainly one method, though!


----------



## Fleer

As suggested in the M1 thread, I’m planning on getting the new MacBook Air with 16GB RAM and 2TB SSD. Should suffice for Spitfire BBCSO. I hope.


----------



## Rory

Has anyone tested one of the 16GB M1 Macs with BBC SO Pro? If not, does anyone plan to do so? Soon? Probably best done with Logic, but I don't want to be picky 

It would be interesting to know at what point the memory demands of BBC SO Pro become too much for the computer.

Because of the Core/Pro modes in BBC SO, there are also practical reasons to test both.


----------



## Fleer

I will test but it won’t be before January.


----------



## Musicalnut2004

paulthomson said:


> haha.. whooops.
> 
> OK its coming. we're still testing the update so it won't be during the BF period - hopefully in about a week or two when its fully tested and any little bugs ironed out.
> 
> BTW - the 35GB number is for PRO (mics) - the number is lower for CORE - the main size is the muted Brass stuff, but you'll also LOVE the new updated legatos..


Whew! I just received my Pro Edition today and was tinkering with the programming and was like, “wait, no mutes and some missing legatos!” Haha you’ve made my night!! This will be my first update with a Spitfire product. Are updates free or paid updates?


----------



## Yogevs

paulthomson said:


> haha.. whooops.
> 
> OK its coming. we're still testing the update so it won't be during the BF period - hopefully in about a week or two when its fully tested and any little bugs ironed out.
> 
> BTW - the 35GB number is for PRO (mics) - the number is lower for CORE - the main size is the muted Brass stuff, but you'll also LOVE the new updated legatos..



Just got BBC SO Core and I'm waiting for the update before I install it.
Which instruments get the new Legato?


----------



## dzilizzi

Musicalnut2004 said:


> Whew! I just received my Pro Edition today and was tinkering with the programming and was like, “wait, no mutes and some missing legatos!” Haha you’ve made my night!! This will be my first update with a Spitfire product. Are updates free or paid updates?


At least $£€100!

No, not really. Updates are free.


----------



## Theladur

Got the upgrade to Pro yesterday.  
But it is downloading sooooo slow. Think I might need the whole week to complete everything.


----------



## Musicalnut2004

dzilizzi said:


> At least $£€100!
> 
> No, not really. Updates are free.


Thanks! I can’t for this update! I love the sound of this library!


----------



## Musicalnut2004

Random thought, I’d love if SF would add a playable glissandi library, mainly for strings. I know there are pre baked FX but I am constantly in need of specific, timed glissandi in my string sections. Just putting that out in the universe.


----------



## José Herring

Trevor Meier said:


> Took the plunge on Pro... what an inspiring library.
> 
> So it’s inevitable to ask... what are your tips & tricks for matching to Abbey Road One? @paulthomson @christianhenson this might make for a good tutorial


I am having a lot of luck with adding a hall verb rather dark with the highs and low EQ's lowered. About 30 ml delay (adjust to taste). This simulates a hall mic and seems to be work rather well for me. Of course in our cloistered bubbles one's perspective can get skewed. I'd like to get some other ears on it to make sure I'm not just smokin' crack. So might post something soon.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Fry777

That string legato is miles ahead of the one I experience with BBCSO at the moment (I'm wondering if it is a bad setting on the plugin as mine sounds really chopped and I have to resort to using overlapping longs instead)

Looking forward to this update


----------



## Brasart

I wish I could write as well as Andy Blaney in my next life


----------



## styledelk

It's got some Prokofiev 5th Symphony and Lt. Kije vibes.


----------



## Toecutter

wow great! @paulthomson do you know if there was any reverb used in this? Can we see the UAD Precision settings?


----------



## Alex Fraser

muziksculp said:


>



<Hyperventilates. Furiously takes notes.>


----------



## muziksculp

'Coming Soon' could that mean in December ?


----------



## Theladur

muziksculp said:


> 'Coming Soon' could that mean in December ?





paulthomson said:


> - hopefully in about a week or two when its fully tested and any little bugs ironed out.


----------



## muziksculp

New legatos and mutes. That's super cool. 

Thanks Spirfire Audio.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Very excited today! (Sorry for stealing the phrase) 

The new demo sounds really good. I'm looking forward to this update.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Core is around £190 in the Queens Gold all next month. That’s seriously tempting.


----------



## mrflood

Upgraded from Core to Pro, then realized I need a new SSD drive to fit the massive size of the library...


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Judging by the screen capture, it seems like Andy did this entire piece (including the short notes) just with the performance legato patch? For all instruments? I don't see any articulation maps or individual tracks for other arts. Very impressive if that's the case.


----------



## Fleer

mrflood said:


> Upgraded from Core to Pro, then realized I need a new SSD drive to fit the massive size of the library...


With the Spitfire Player do we still need more than the library size to install or would the exact library size suffice?


----------



## CT

No, that doesn't apply to the Player libraries.


----------



## dzilizzi

Fleer said:


> With the Spitfire Player do we still need more than the library size to install or would the exact library size suffice?


You need more. It downloads a lot of smaller files and then unzips and merges them, but you still need more space to do the unzipping. It seems to be pretty efficient though. I'd make sure I had maybe 20 GBs extra at least? It seems to download a few at a time before unzipping them. It also lets you download in sections. I downloaded to a HDD myself, then moved it to an SDD. Then I had to relocate and repair the libraries.


----------



## Fleer

Downloading to a HDD before moving to an SDD seems a smart move indeed, keeping the SDD as clean and undisturbed as possible.


----------



## drews

Fleer said:


> Downloading to a HDD before moving to an SDD seems a smart move indeed, keeping the SDD as clean and undisturbed as possible.


Dont do this. Every move ends up being another activation, st least if you have to repair i believe


----------



## Will Wilson

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Judging by the screen capture, it seems like Andy did this entire piece (including the short notes) just with the performance legato patch? For all instruments? I don't see any articulation maps or individual tracks for other arts. Very impressive if that's the case.



I might be wrong but I think Andy uses DP not Logic, what looks to have happened is he has bounced the audio and then sent the Spitfire video guys the Midi output so they can open it up in Logic to capture the video to go along with his audio. I would be very surprised if he wasn't using different articulations throughout.


----------



## Andy B

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Judging by the screen capture, it seems like Andy did this entire piece (including the short notes) just with the performance legato patch? For all instruments? I don't see any articulation maps or individual tracks for other arts. Very impressive if that's the case.





Will Wilson said:


> I might be wrong but I think Andy uses DP not Logic, what looks to have happened is he has bounced the audio and then sent the Spitfire video guys the Midi output so they can open it up in Logic to capture the video to go along with his audio. I would be very surprised if he wasn't using different articulations throughout.


Just to clear this up, the new BBCSO demo features only Performance Legato patches, which are referred to as 'Extended' in the library.

Thanks,

Andy.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Andy B said:


> Just to clear this up, the new BBCSO demo features only Performance Legato patches, which are referred to as 'Extended' in the library.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Andy.


I make no apologies for fanboying all over your work, Andy. Another great track. Thanks for the update.


----------



## Andy B

Alex Fraser said:


> I make no apologies for fanboying all over your work, Andy. Another great track. Thanks for the update.


Thanks Alex. 

Andy.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Andy B said:


> Just to clear this up, the new BBCSO demo features only Performance Legato patches, which are referred to as 'Extended' in the library.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Andy.



He has shown himself!

Andy - if we all bought you holiday presents, would you be able to do a mock-up tutorial one of these days?


----------



## daan1412

Andy B said:


> Just to clear this up, the new BBCSO demo features only Performance Legato patches, which are referred to as 'Extended' in the library.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Andy.


Sounds lovely, congrats! How about mic positions? Was it predominantly "Mix 1" or some more custom setting?


----------



## Trevor Meier

mrflood said:


> Upgraded from Core to Pro, then realized I need a new SSD drive to fit the massive size of the library...



Hahaha same here


----------



## dcoscina

Alex Fraser said:


> I make no apologies for fanboying all over your work, Andy. Another great track. Thanks for the update.


I second that!


----------



## Laddy

Enjoying the Core version so far.

I like the concept of layering (for example, activating both Marcato and Long on brass instruments). It seems you have to shift-click articulations to layer them? Is there a way to "translate" this into a keyswitch? Like: press c-1 and you activate a combination of articulations? Or some way to use an expression map to trigger this combination?


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder if the BBCSO update uses samples they recorded in the initial sessions when they were developing the library, or new additional recordings they have done recently ?


----------



## AEF

Andy B said:


> Just to clear this up, the new BBCSO demo features only Performance Legato patches, which are referred to as 'Extended' in the library.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Andy.



Holy sh*t. Wowowowow!


----------



## MaxOctane




----------



## Kevinside

Please can someone confirm,that downloading BBCSO Pro on a HD and then moving to the ssd(My SSD is on the way) results in a new activation... Then, i won´t download it now....
Thanks for help...


----------



## RogiervG

Kevinside said:


> Please can someone confirm,that downloading BBCSO Pro on a HD and then moving to the ssd(My SSD is on the way) results in a new activation... Then, i won´t download it now....
> Thanks for help...


huh? that would be very odd, and well..a bit dodgy too. Since the whole thing is account based, not serial or something. once logged in to the spitfire download/updater thingy.. i recon it would also check for having a proper license (not reactivations). now i get curious too... and how many activations does one get? unlimited? x amount per quarter year? or what?


----------



## dzilizzi

Some people have run out of activations due to having to repair the library a few times. just email Spitfire support and they have been resetting them without an issue. Especially when you first start out.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Fleer said:


> As suggested in the M1 thread, I’m planning on getting the new MacBook Air with 16GB RAM and 2TB SSD. Should suffice for Spitfire BBCSO. I hope.


And what about the support for the Spitfire plugin on macOS Big Sur?
Seems like a huge risk, considering that Apple have almost no support for anything native on Silicon, only running Universal Binary for now

I like bleeding edge, but this is even beyond water I am willing to venture into as an IT Technician


----------



## dogdad

Does anyone know if the update applies to Core or just Pro.

Amazing demo as always, Mr. Blaney!


----------



## andyhy

I believe Paul Thomson said both will be benefit from the update but the largest part will be for Professional


----------



## Sean

dogdad said:


> Does anyone know if the update applies to Core or just Pro.
> 
> Amazing demo as always, Mr. Blaney!


Core is getting the same new stuff like legatos, the pro update is bigger because it has more microphones.


----------



## dogdad

Sean said:


> Core is getting the same new stuff like legatos, the pro update is bigger because it has more microphones.



That’s what I was hoping for, new performance legatos. The mixed position is fine for me. I’ll probably upgrade in the future. I would have this sale but got AR One instead.

Thank you Spitfire for the update and for making amazing tools that allow me to make the music in my head and heart!


----------



## Fleer

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> And what about the support for the Spitfire plugin on macOS Big Sur?
> Seems like a huge risk, considering that Apple have almost no support for anything native on Silicon, only running Universal Binary for now
> 
> I like bleeding edge, but this is even beyond water I am willing to venture into as an IT Technician


A philosopher’s native habitat


----------



## alexander.tudor

I just updated BBCSO Core to 1.1.9. The AU works and is 1.1.9.
The VST2/3 is still 1.1.8 gets Error#2 VEP7 and Dorico. Is that supposed to work with 1.1.9? Anybody else with this issue?
Thank you!


----------



## Rory

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> And what about the support for the Spitfire plugin on macOS Big Sur?
> Seems like a huge risk, considering that Apple have almost no support for anything native on Silicon, only running Universal Binary for now
> 
> I like bleeding edge, but this is even beyond water I am willing to venture into as an IT Technician



I've installed Big Sur and I've since installed two LABS libraries. The installations went without a hitch and the LABS libraries seem to function fine in Logic. BBC SO seems to be playing normally, but I haven't methodically tested it. Same for the Spitfire/SA Recordings Oliver Patrice Weder library.


----------



## Rory

Rory said:


> I've installed Big Sur and I've since installed two LABS libraries. The installations went without a hitch and the LABS libraries seem to function fine in Logic. BBC SO seems to be playing normally, but I haven't methodically tested it. Same for the Spitfire/SA Recordings Oliver Patrice Weder library.



It would be great if any others who have installed Big Sur could say whether they are having any difficulties with the Spitfire App or BBC SO.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Rory said:


> It would be great if any others who have installed Big Sur could say whether they are having any difficulties with the Spitfire App or BBC SO.


The only issue is that this is not going to be relevant in the sense that (as I understand it), they would be running on an x86 platform, but you would be looking to run it on an ARM architecture. So they would be running native on Big Sur and you would be testing the Apps using Universal Binary, on an emulation of x86 on ARM 'aarch'. Not the same thing as I understand it.

it will be cross-platform comparable, but not directly.


----------



## Rory

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> The only issue is that this is not going to be relevant in the sense that (as I understand it), they would be running on an x86 platform, but you would be looking to run it on an ARM architecture. So they would be running native on Big Sur and you would be testing the Apps using Universal Binary, on an emulation of x86 on ARM 'aarch'. Not the same thing as I understand it.
> 
> it will be cross-platform comparable, but not directly.



I'm talking about Intel Macs, not ARM Macs.


----------



## ZGoenMusic

Andy B said:


> Just to clear this up, the new BBCSO demo features only Performance Legato patches, which are referred to as 'Extended' in the library.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Andy.


I hope that Polyphonic legato is included with the new legato patches, alongside actual marcato patches for the strings section. The Long Marcato Attack is fine, but it's just not the same.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Rory said:


> It would be great if any others who have installed Big Sur could say whether they are having any difficulties with the Spitfire App or BBC SO.


Big Sur on intel. No issues with Spitfire App or other libraries that use the Spitfire player. Haven't got BBCSO.


----------



## Kevinside

Interesting; No brass in the demo for the update at all....


----------



## CT

Except for the horn and trombone of course.


----------



## artomatic

Can't wait for this update - so I can sound like Andy Blaney too!


----------



## Fleer

Alex Fraser said:


> Big Sur on intel. No issues with Spitfire App or other libraries that use the Spitfire player. Haven't got BBCSO.


Maybe the Spitfire player will beat Kontakt to the Big Sur native game. And add M1 compatibility to boot. BBCSO will rock.


----------



## Kirk1701

*Idon'tneedCore *Idon'tneedCore *Idon'tneedCore


----------



## Musicalnut2004

Kirk1701 said:


> *Idon'tneedCore *Idon'tneedCore *Idon'tneedCore


Nope. You need Pro


----------



## Kirk1701

Musicalnut2004 said:


> Nope. You need Pro



Ugh. If I'm s^&**ing myself over $220, imagine my intestinal distress over $599?!


----------



## dzilizzi

I just went straight to Pro. But then, I had planned on buying it before Core/Discover were even introduced. I was just patiently waiting for the 40% sale.....


----------



## Sean

The only reason I haven't bought it yet is because it's on sale all December, but I expect I'll be buying Core this month at some point. Just trying to recover from my Black Friday spending.


----------



## JDK88

Core is amazing, especially for the price. The sound of the room is worth it alone. This feels suited for more classical hollywood scores. Modern beefy scores will make this library cry. I like the fact that I don't have to tinker with the instruments to make them sound right. Also, the free template is a huge time saver. I feel more motivated to create music.


----------



## Christian64

I bought it yesterday. I had already discover version so it cost me 220 euros (Core version). Very nice sound, easy to use, great Legato . A must have...


----------



## Alex Fraser

I think a lot of people are going to be picking up 'Core this month..


----------



## DovesGoWest

I bought Core back in June\July when it came out and its the only full library i have and i havent looked back. Yet there are a lot of minor glitches i have found and documented which annoy me but worked around these and looking forward to the upcoming update.

I would love to get Pro but i I would also need to buy a new SSD to host it on, so this increases the cost beyond my funds at present.


----------



## Rory

Musicalnut2004 said:


> Nope. You need Pro






Kirk1701 said:


> Ugh. If I'm s^&**ing myself over $220, imagine my intestinal distress over $599?!




Christian Henson says that you don't need Pro, not that I listened to him myself


----------



## Kirk1701

Rory said:


> Christian Henson says that you don't need Pro, not that I listened to him myself



I would agree with CH.

I'm fairly certain that Core would only be an indulgence for me. I don't score films. I'm certainly able, but it's not my job or even main musical interest. I very much enjoy orchestral music, but my own compositions are roots-based music. The orchestra plays a secondary role. I know good quality when I hear it, though, and Core is definite quality. I just can't justify it. I HATE being prudent.

There will be other sales and promotions however. I may eventually cave.


----------



## dzilizzi

Kirk1701 said:


> I would agree with CH.
> 
> I'm fairly certain that Core would only be an indulgence for me. I don't score films. I'm certainly able, but it's not my job or even main musical interest. I very much enjoy orchestral music, but my own compositions are roots-based music. The orchestra plays a secondary role. I know good quality when I hear it, though, and Core is definite quality. I just can't justify it. I HATE being prudent.
> 
> There will be other sales and promotions however. I may eventually cave.


If you don't get it this Christmas, it should be on sale next Christmas at 40% off.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Kirk1701 said:


> I'm fairly certain that Core would only be an indulgence for me.


Me too. I already have libraries that can deliver what I need for work. If I need orchestral stuff, Albion ONE or Studio Series usually get things done as I only ever need a "taster" of the orchestra.
I'll probably fold anyway..


----------



## Kirk1701

dzilizzi said:


> If you don't get it this Christmas, it should be on sale next Christmas at 40% off.



Fair point!

One could always ask Santa, as well, I suppose. Santa tends not to bring toys to 40 year olds.  He brings things like George Bailey's joy and gratitude.


----------



## Kirk1701

Alex Fraser said:


> Me too. I already have libraries that can deliver what I need for work. If I need orchestral stuff, Albion ONE or Studio Series usually get things done as I only ever need a "taster" of the orchestra.
> I'll probably fold anyway..



Whoa! I only have Discover. You're WELL set!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Kirk1701 said:


> Whoa! I only have Discover. You're WELL set!


No, no, no...

You're supposed to tell me that I *really* need Core and talk me into getting my wallet out.
THAT's the VI Control way!


----------



## Will Wilson

Andy B said:


> Just to clear this up, the new BBCSO demo features only Performance Legato patches, which are referred to as 'Extended' in the library.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Andy.



...I'm very glad I didn't give up my day job.


----------



## dzilizzi

Alex Fraser said:


> No, no, no...
> 
> You're supposed to tell me that I *really* need Core and talk me into getting my wallet out.
> THAT's the VI Control way!


Forget Core, you're a professional Alex, you need the full Pro version!


----------



## Kirk1701

Alex Fraser said:


> No, no, no...
> 
> You're supposed to tell me that I *really* need Core and talk me into getting my wallet out.
> THAT's the VI Control way!



Hah! That's true.

I'm afraid I'm not good at telling fellows what they want to hear. I will say you probably will enjoy it.

I'm also telling myself that I prefer smaller chamber bands. I rarely need a full orchestra.


----------



## Kevinside

Dont forget, that bbcso sounds great...but falls short with dynamic layers, which is obvious, using the brass patches...


----------



## CT

I forgot.


----------



## Marcus Millfield

Kevinside said:


> Dont forget, that bbcso sounds great...but falls short with dynamic layers, which is obvious, using the brass patches...



I like the overall characteristics of the sound very much, but as with many libraries, trumpets are an issue. The attack is just awful and the long notes sound synthetic. It's obviously really hard to edit trumpets recordings for sample libraries it seems.


----------



## muziksculp

Marcus Millfield said:


> I like the overall characteristics of the sound very much, but as with many libraries, trumpets are an issue. The attack is just awful and the long notes sound synthetic. It's obviously really hard to edit trumpets recordings for sample libraries it seems.



You must be a Trumpet player


----------



## Marcus Millfield

muziksculp said:


> You must be a Trumpet player


What gave it away?


----------



## Alex Fraser

dzilizzi said:


> Forget Core, you're a professional Alex, you need the full Pro version!


Ha! Unless you're HZ etc, I think "professionals" are probably the poorest folk on the forum!

I'm not sure who's getting the "requires symphony orchestra" jobs as all I'm picking up are beats and "minimalist sci fi dysphoria drones" briefs. I'll have to think of a way of squaring a BBC purchase with that..


----------



## Alex Fraser

Mike T said:


> I forgot.


It's OK Mike. Rest assured that someone will come along to remind you every few days or so. I'll put it in the diary for Friday.


----------



## Kirk1701

Alex Fraser said:


> Ha! Unless you're HZ etc, I think "professionals" are probably the poorest folk on the forum!
> 
> I'm not sure who's getting the "requires symphony orchestra" jobs as all I'm picking up are beats and "minimalist sci fi dysphoria drones" briefs. I'll have to think of a way of squaring a BBC purchase with that..



I think it would be an interesting challenge to make a neo-noir score with a tonal orchestra like BBCSO. Try using modal scales and less common articulations. 

One of my favourite scores is Trevor Jones' Last of the Mohicans. He used traditional jigs and reels in a full orchestral context. Very unique and affecting sound. He married the loneliness of the Celtic sound with the romance of the 18th century orchestra


----------



## Trevor Meier

Brasart said:


> I do love the CloseWide on leader/solo instruments, I've used it quite a lot paired with the tree/mids/stereo.
> 
> I think the second mic page can bring quite interesting tones to the instruments.



Is there no way to quickly set all of the BBCSO instances to the same starting mic mix? Am I missing something?

EDIT:

(Cue dramatic music and Herzog narration)

"Moments later, our subject would discover that he was, in fact, not alone in the plugin universe. He just had to click a button—a simple object on the screen that would bring so much joy and happiness. And its name was LOAD MIXER PRESET."


----------



## James Semple

Kirk1701 said:


> One of my favourite scores is Trevor Jones' Last of the Mohicans. He used traditional jigs and reels in a full orchestral context. Very unique and affecting sound. He married the loneliness of the Celtic sound with the romance of the 18th century orchestra



Trevor Jones wrote it entirely as an orchestral score however he was replaced by Randy Edelman midway through scoring. That’s where the folk music came from.


----------



## Brasart

Trevor Meier said:


> Is there no way to quickly set all of the BBCSO instances to the same starting mic mix? Am I missing something?
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> (Cue dramatic music and Herzog narration)
> 
> "Moments later, our subject would discover that he was, in fact, not alone in the plugin universe. He just had to click a button—a simple object on the screen that would bring so much joy and happiness. And its name was LOAD MIXER PRESET."



I don't think there is, I do hope it's on their to-do list


----------



## KallumS

I tried searching the forum but couldn’t find an answer, do people think Core is worth it if you have Berlin Inspire 1 and 2?


----------



## mybadmemory

KallumS said:


> I tried searching the forum but couldn’t find an answer, do people think Core is worth it if you have Berlin Inspire 1 and 2?



I have both and they are very different beasts! In terms of sound the Inspires are much wetter, whereas Core is more contained and controlled. In terms of content the inspires are ensemble based with a few solos thrown in, whereas Core is all sections and solos.

Which sound and workflow you prefer is obviously up to personal taste, but there is no question Core is more complete. The number of instruments and articulations is quite staggering for the price.


----------



## mybadmemory

I guess I might add that I’m a bit of a sucker for starter/all-in-one libraries, and currently own BBCSO Core, CineSymphony, Nucleus, Inspires, All of the Originals.

Out of those the inspires together with the originals are the ones least used. Probably because they are both very wet, and for my way of working, quite limited in their ensembles only approach.

Considering you like the sound, don’t need the ensambles, and can live with some quirks, I think Core is a hell of a deal that will give you much more in terms of sections, solos, articulations, and control, compared to the inspires.


----------



## mybadmemory

Then of course it would also depend on the kind of music you write.

The inspires are easier to work with for anything that is fast, tight, aggressive, and snappy. Not that core can’t do it, just that it’s... not as quick to get there.

On the other hand, for anything that’s slower, softer, more melodic, or emotional, I’d certainly say Core sounds much more realistic, lifelike, and believable, at least to my ears.


----------



## KallumS

mybadmemory said:


> Then of course it would also depend on the kind of music you write.
> 
> The inspires are easier to work with for anything that is fast, tight, aggressive, and snappy. Not that core can’t do it, just that it’s... not as quick to get there.
> 
> On the other hand, for anything that’s slower, softer, more melodic, or emotional, I’d certainly say Core sounds much more realistic, lifelike, and believable, at least to my ears.



I’m sold! Thank you for your insight and wisdom.


----------



## mybadmemory

KallumS said:


> I’m sold! Thank you for your insight and wisdom.



Btw, the track in my signature is 99% Core, with only the piano coming from Inspire. So I do guess Inspire get some use still.


----------



## KallumS

mybadmemory said:


> Btw, the track in my signature is 99% Core, with only the piano coming from Inspire. So I do guess Inspire get some use still.



Love it, Final Fantasy songs are always good test of a library’s strengths.


----------



## JDK88

One thing that surprised me is that the strings have that classic 70s/80s caked-in-reverb sound, especially the first violins. I've been looking for this sound.


----------



## Kirk1701

James Semple said:


> Trevor Jones wrote it entirely as an orchestral score however he was replaced by Randy Edelman midway through scoring. That’s where the folk music came from.



I was not aware of that. Thanks for the info!


----------



## Kirk1701

KallumS said:


> Love it, Final Fantasy songs are always good test of a library’s strengths.



I enjoyed the Mancini-esque violins.

Where did the solo flute come from?


----------



## Kirk1701

mybadmemory said:


> Then of course it would also depend on the kind of music you write.
> 
> The inspires are easier to work with for anything that is fast, tight, aggressive, and snappy. Not that core can’t do it, just that it’s... not as quick to get there.
> 
> On the other hand, for anything that’s slower, softer, more melodic, or emotional, I’d certainly say Core sounds much more realistic, lifelike, and believable, at least to my ears.



Good notes.

I'm not a film composer. I don’t need full mockups too often, fun as they are.

I usually want quick access to the right sounds before I lose the tune ot harmony I have in my head. (Physical notepaper seems an cheap solution, but not as fun.)


----------



## mybadmemory

Kirk1701 said:


> I enjoyed the Mancini-esque violins.
> 
> Where did the solo flute come from?



Thanks! Everything including the solo flute is BBCSO Core, besides the piano which is Inspire 1.


----------



## Markrs

I got Core recently and having to resist temptation to upgrade to Pro whilst it is on offer. Just not convinced I will get full value out of it as the mic mix in Core is very good. Are the extra articulations and instruments worth the extra?


----------



## Trevor Meier

Markrs said:


> I got Core recently and having to resist temptation to upgrade to Pro whilst it is on offer. Just not convinced I will get full value out of it as the mic mix in Core is very good. Are the extra articulations and instruments worth the extra?



One thing to note is that there aren’t yet any articulations unique to Pro for the instruments that are included in Core. That will change with the coming update I believe, which will include brass mutes exclusive to Pro. The extra articulations currently just come from the additional instruments and the section leaders which fully match the articulations of their sections.

I have found the extra mic positions very useful for blending with other libs, for getting longer reverbs and for getting either more or less of the room sound.


----------



## Trevor Meier

I just posted this on the templates thread, but it’s pretty relevant if any of you use the BBCSO templates:



Trevor Meier said:


> You’re in Logic, right? I discovered a bug/feature of the way the BBCSO template is routed that might be relevant to you:
> 
> *When you route to outputs via aux busses it increases latency considerably.*
> 
> The BBCSO template is set up this way. I discovered it by accident trying to turn on low-latency mode because I was having trouble recording instruments in time. When I enabled low-latency mode, no sound would come out of my outputs. I did some digging and figured this out:
> 
> BBCSO templates have the mix channel routed to both the master channel and the mix monitor channel via an aux bus. This adds to output latency significantly. *Changing the routing so that the mix channel’s output is bussed to the mix monitor channel’s input (instead of via aux) dropped latency back to normal and re-enabled audio in low-latency mode. *


----------



## Fleer

Looking forward to those brass mutes. Any ETA?


----------



## mallux

Trevor Meier said:


> One thing to note is that there aren’t yet any articulations unique to Pro for the instruments that are included in Core. That will change with the coming update I believe, which will include brass mutes exclusive to Pro.



Oh, really? :-(

I interpreted Paul's comment as meaning the muted brass would be in Core, but the download size would be much bigger for Pro simply due to all the mics. Maybe wishful thinking on my part.


----------



## Rory

Trevor Meier said:


> I just posted this on the templates thread



There's a BBC SO Template thread? Could someone enlighten me on what the link is?


----------



## DovesGoWest

mallux said:


> Oh, really? :-(
> 
> I interpreted Paul's comment as meaning the muted brass would be in Core, but the download size would be much bigger for Pro simply due to all the mics. Maybe wishful thinking on my part.


I agree Paul stated that the brass muted would be incorrect and pro.


----------



## Trevor Meier

DovesGoWest said:


> I agree Paul stated that the brass muted would be incorrect and pro.



I could totally have it wrong about the mutes being in Core. I was mostly trying to point out that Core and Pro have the same articulations at this point; Pro just has more instruments with those same articulations


----------



## Trevor Meier

Rory said:


> There's a BBC SO Template thread? Could someone enlighten me on what the link is?



It’s linked from my comment: https://vi-control.net/community/goto/post?id=4713067


----------



## DovesGoWest

Theladur said:


> I am thinking of upgrading my BBCSO Core to Pro during this Black-Friday Sale, and therefore had another look at the differences of both Editions.
> 
> I had looked at it some time before, but I can't remember that the Brass had muted Articulations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Core Edition page also states
> "*UPDATE CONTENT:*
> 
> 35gb of new and updated content
> New Muted Brass techniques
> New ‘Extended’ Legatos for a selection of Brass and Woodwinds instruments
> Updated legatos for Flute and Strings
> Various bug fixes, tweaks and optimisations"
> Is this a new update coming (soon)?



Here was the post saying the mutes are in core, Paul followed this up by saying the size difference in pro is because of mics


----------



## mallux

It's a shame there isn't an in-between offering which has the pro instruments but without the mics. My finger has been hovering over the pro upgrade Buy button for about a month... I can live without a contrabassoon, but having access to some solo strings would be great... just don't think I can justify another 300 quid for them this year.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Do we think this update will drop on the usual Spitfire Thursday release?

I notice they bring things out then, so sitting here counting down till tomorrow for the update


----------



## Alex Fraser

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Do we think this update will drop on the usual Spitfire Thursday release?
> 
> I notice they bring things out then, so sitting here counting down till tomorrow for the update


I'd be surprised if they didn't try to get it out this month during the BBCSO promotion. It would be the perfect opportunity to make more noise about the library.


----------



## Toecutter

Paul did say hopefully a week or two after black Friday period


paulthomson said:


> OK its coming. we're still testing the update so it won't be during the BF period - hopefully in about a week or two when its fully tested and any little bugs ironed out.


----------



## yiph2

Hopefully they will announce the Christmas sale as well


----------



## YK47

When is the Core sale ending?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

I say drop it the day that OT make their announcement 

So Today! Here in the UK anyway...


----------



## newbreednet

YK47 said:


> When is the Core sale ending?



the site says "throughout December", so presumably the 31st.


----------



## CT

Hope this update is coming soon.

I'm sure I'm not speaking for a majority of users with this request, but I'd dearly love the ability to use microtuning in the player.


----------



## muziksculp

Mike T said:


> Hope this update is coming soon.
> 
> I'm sure I'm not speaking for a majority of users with this request, but I'd dearly love the ability to use microtuning in the player.



Maybe I missed this, but did Spitfire promise/mention that they will be adding Microtuning feature to their Player via the next update ?

Funny, I just requested this from OT, to add Microtuning feature to their SINE player.


----------



## CT

muziksculp said:


> Maybe I missed this, but did Spitfire promise/mention that they will be adding Microtuning feature to their Player via the next update ?
> 
> Funny, I just requested this from OT, to add Microtuning feature to their SINE player.



I'm not sure. Haven't seen any mention of it, myself, so I doubt it's a priority. Although it should be, considering how crafty use of it can aid in realism!


----------



## muziksculp

Mike T said:


> I'm not sure. Haven't seen any mention of it, myself, so I doubt it's a priority. Although it should be, considering how crafty use of it can aid in realism!



I wonder if a Microtuning feature request has reached Spitfire Audio, basically I'm asking if they know there is a request for it.


----------



## mybadmemory

I wish there was a way to get the string leaders with core.

Either that core included all instruments but not the mic positions, or a way of purchasing just the string leaders separately.

I think many people want and would happily pay for all the instruments but don’t want or need 500gb of additional microphones.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

They have gone 'mute' on those Mutes

Then again, I guess, at current... this is a moot point


----------



## mussnig

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> They have gone 'mute' on those Mutes
> 
> Then again, I guess, at current... this is a moot point



I have been checking my Spitfire App on a daily basis for the last 1-2 weeks, hoping to see the Update available.

I am eagerly waiting for this: I recently did a mockup of the beginning of "The Planets - Mars" by Holst using only Studio Orchestra Pro and BHCT (of course, this is something those libs were not really made for - it was a kind of test for me). Thus, as a first real full use of BBCSO (which I got recently), I wanted to test it on this piece. But since a muted Trumpet is needed (although only once in the first minute) I have been postponing it until the Update drops (and of course, I am also hoping for performance improvements).


----------



## Alex Fraser

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> They have gone 'mute' on those Mutes
> 
> Then again, I guess, at current... this is a moot point


You might get a _muted_ reception from Spitfire fans, posting like that..


----------



## Brasart

I'm guessing they're planning on grouping their new announcements around the time where their new sale goes live


----------



## mussnig

Brasart said:


> I'm guessing they're planning on grouping their new announcements around the time where their new sale goes live



You mean the Christmas Wishlist Sale?


----------



## John R Wilson

mussnig said:


> You mean the Christmas Wishlist Sale?



When do they normally announce the Christmas Wishlish sale? This coming Monday isn't it? I'm Assuming they will announce and release the new BBCSO update then.


----------



## mussnig

John R Wilson said:


> When do they normally announce the Christmas Wishlish sale? This coming Monday isn't it? I'm Assuming they will announce and release the new BBCSO update then.



Last year I received the email on the 21st.


----------



## John R Wilson

mussnig said:


> Last year I received the email on the 21st.



Hopefully BBCSO update will come this Monday in that case!


----------



## Brasart

mussnig said:


> You mean the Christmas Wishlist Sale?



Yep


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

mussnig said:


> I have been checking my Spitfire App on a daily basis for the last 1-2 weeks, hoping to see the Update available.
> 
> I am eagerly waiting for this: I recently did a mockup of the beginning of "The Planets - Mars" by Holst using only Studio Orchestra Pro and BHCT (of course, this is something those libs were not really made for - it was a kind of test for me). Thus, as a first real full use of BBCSO (which I got recently), I wanted to test it on this piece. But since a muted Trumpet is needed (although only once in the first minute) I have been postponing it until the Update drops (and of course, I am also hoping for performance improvements).


We are travelling in the same boat there, in regards to daily update checks


----------



## muziksculp

Did Spitfire mention improving their BBCSO Brass High-Dynamics, i.e. maybe adding more fff layers to their brass, I think that was one of the weaknesses of their initial release of BBCSO. or is it just Brass Mutes that they are adding via the upcoming update ? 

I'm also curious if they are adding any more content to their Strings articulations ?


----------



## mybadmemory

muziksculp said:


> Did Spitfire mention improving their BBCSO Brass High-Dynamics, i.e. maybe adding more fff layers to their brass, I think that was one of the weaknesses of their initial release of BBCSO. or is it just Brass Mutes that they are adding via the upcoming update ?
> 
> I'm also curious if they are adding any more content to their Strings articulations ?



You don’t think the Brass Quivre articulations work for those top dynamics?


----------



## muziksculp

mybadmemory said:


> You don’t think the Brass Quivre articulations work for those top dynamics?



A lot of BBCSO users were complaining about the high-dynamics of the brass being weak. I find them ok, but could be much better.


----------



## styledelk

A lot of BBCSO users also probably eat blood sausage. There's such a variety of taste, even when it's so clearly wrong.


----------



## mybadmemory

muziksculp said:


> A lot of BBCSO users were complaining about the high-dynamics of the brass being weak. I find them ok, but could be much better.



Yeah I know. But to me it seems like what Spitfire is already offering in the Quivre articulations is kind of what those users are asking for? Just that other devs might have put them into the default articulations as a top layer instead of as its own articulation?

Might be totally different things though. I’m no brass expert!


----------



## jaketanner

mybadmemory said:


> I wish there was a way to get the string leaders with core.


The leaders don't sound very good on their own, and probably useless actually...but they do add a nice bit of detail buried along the ensembles. But if you are using them as "leaders" (which is actually an extra player), then maybe other solo libraries might work as filler.


----------



## jaketanner

mybadmemory said:


> Yeah I know. But to me it seems like what Spitfire is already offering in the Quivre articulations is kind of what those users are asking for? Just that other devs might have put them into the default articulations as a top layer instead of as its own articulation?
> 
> Might be totally different things though. I’m no brass expert!


I feel the lack of a middle/smooth transition between soft and loud dynamics is more important for BBC...it goes from zero to 100 and sounds a bit nuts...not smooth at all. I also tried using the cuivre layered in with the regular patch and the solo horn...sounds pretty good for mf-ff dynamics.


----------



## Sean

If cuirve is just supposed to be used for FF it should just be included in the dynamics of the other articulations.


----------



## jaketanner

Sean said:


> If cuirve is just supposed to be used for FF it should just be included in the dynamics of the other articulations.


Cuivre is a separate articulation like Sul Pont...that is also separate. I dont think cuivre is used all too often for FF...it's technically an overblown articulation. I just think we don't have a choice with BBC, hence why most use it for the louder passages.


----------



## Sean

jaketanner said:


> Cuivre is a separate articulation like Sul Pont...that is also separate. I dont think cuivre is used all too often for FF...it's technically an overblown articulation. I just think we don't have a choice with BBC, hence why most use it for the louder passages.


Yea I agree. I'm disagreeing with the opinion that cuirve _should_ satisfy the the need for a FF dynamic. It shouldn't be necessary imo, it should be a separate articulation and they should just have another dynamic layer. Of course Spitfire doesn't have to add any new dynamic layers, but I think its silly some people defend the dynamics as fine, and that you can use cuirve to get the top layer


----------



## jaketanner

Sean said:


> Yea I agree. I'm disagreeing with the opinion that cuirve _should_ satisfy the the need for a FF dynamic. It shouldn't be necessary imo, it should be a separate articulation and they should just have another dynamic layer.


yes totally...the horn a4 are passable though, it's the solo horn that is really bad in this regard. Also, they have the Cuivre articulation with dynamic control...seems a bit odd since that is ONE dynamic...so the modwheel acts as a volume in this case. For those that don't know, this might result in unrealistic results.


----------



## Brasart

jaketanner said:


> The leaders don't sound very good on their own, and probably useless actually...but they do add a nice bit of detail buried along the ensembles. But if you are using them as "leaders" (which is actually an extra player), then maybe other solo libraries might work as filler.



I don't agree at all, I really really like the leaders, not necessarily for their legato but for every other articulation they sound absolutely excellent — especially using closer mics, I can't get enough of their close sound, it's super useful!


----------



## styledelk

I also love the leaders. Used them on a recent track, exposed even.


----------



## CT

Agreed. Jake Tanner is a nut. Some of the best solo strings out there.


----------



## Markrs

Brasart said:


> I don't agree at all, I really really like the leaders, not necessarily for their legato but for every other articulation they sound absolutely excellent — especially using closer mics, I can't get enough of their close sound, it's super useful!





styledelk said:


> I also love the leaders. Used them on a recent track, exposed even.





Mike T said:


> Agreed. Jake Tanner is a nut. Some of the best solo strings out there.


Don't say that some of us are trying to avoid upgrading from Core to Pro. 😀


----------



## mybadmemory

Are there any particular string leaders that are available as separate purchases that people feel would work well/better with core?

Spifire Solo Violin + Cello?
Tableau Solo Strings?
Something else?


----------



## José Herring

Sean said:


> Yea I agree. I'm disagreeing with the opinion that cuirve _should_ satisfy the the need for a FF dynamic. It shouldn't be necessary imo, it should be a separate articulation and they should just have another dynamic layer. Of course Spitfire doesn't have to add any new dynamic layers, but I think its silly some people defend the dynamics as fine, and that you can use cuirve to get the top layer


I'm so happy that they have patches that don't have that top dynamic layer. It's annoying. In order to blend it they have to streatch that top dynamic layer down so it starts at the mf range. Every other brass library I have does this and it makes the middle range all but unusable. At least the brass in BBCSO has a consistent tone. Nice full and round (expect that solo horn)


----------



## dylanmixer

The celli leader is the definitive solo cello in my template, tbh. It's beautiful.


----------



## CT

mybadmemory said:


> Are there any particular string leaders that are available as separate purchases that people feel would work well/better with core?
> 
> Spifire Solo Violin + Cello?
> Tableau Solo Strings?
> Something else?



There just aren't many good solo string libraries to begin with. CSSS would probably be an ok fit.


----------



## styledelk

Mike T said:


> There just aren't many good solo string libraries to begin with. CSSS would probably be an ok fit.



I want to love Spitfire Solo Strings so much... and I just haven't figured out how. The BBC Leaders just fit like a glove. When I need virtuosic work I'll go back to the solo strings.


----------



## John R Wilson

Brasart said:


> I don't agree at all, I really really like the leaders, not necessarily for their legato but for every other articulation they sound absolutely excellent — especially using closer mics, I can't get enough of their close sound, it's super useful!



Yeah I'd agree. I don't like their legatos but the shorts close mics and all the other articulations are very nice. All the other articulations apart from the legatos are great.


----------



## fretti

mybadmemory said:


> Are there any particular string leaders that are available as separate purchases that people feel would work well/better with core?
> 
> Spifire Solo Violin + Cello?
> Tableau Solo Strings?
> Something else?


Not sure about better, but I still very much like the First Chairs from Orchestral Tools (here), since the update also with a bass (and hopefully soon on Sine).
But they cost about the same as the upgrade from BBCSO Core to Pro atm, and I think the next time they are on sale is when ported to Sine. The Sascha Knorr Demo (Flying across the gallery) sold me "back then", I think this one also is a good reference to see if one likes the timbre of the library (and how or if it could be layered with BBCSO Core to ones taste)


----------



## John R Wilson

Mike T said:


> Agreed. Jake Tanner is a nut. Some of the best solo strings out there.



Not sure id agree that they are some of the best solo strings out there because of their legatos.


----------



## CT

styledelk said:


> I want to love Spitfire Solo Strings so much... and I just haven't figured out how. The BBC Leaders just fit like a glove. When I need virtuosic work I'll go back to the solo strings.



That room is tough for clean solo detail when sampling. Maida Vale is just the right level of tightness.


----------



## jaketanner

Brasart said:


> I don't agree at all, I really really like the leaders, not necessarily for their legato but for every other articulation they sound absolutely excellent — especially using closer mics, I can't get enough of their close sound, it's super useful!


The leader violin has some wonky vibrato...much too over the top and makes it sound synthy. However I do agree that the shorts are pretty good...also depends on the register you use the violin. Just at the higher dynamics, that vibrato is just too much. I do think the cello though is pretty good.


----------



## jaketanner

Mike T said:


> Agreed. Jake Tanner is a nut. Some of the best solo strings out there.


WHAT? LOL you are saying the leaders of BBC are some of the best out there?


----------



## CT

jaketanner said:


> WHAT? LOL you are saying the leaders of BBC are some of the best out there?



Yes Jake. There are precious few good sampled solo strings out there, whether due to bad tone, bad programming, or both. The balance struck here is exceptional. The first violin might be less smooth in its higher transitions, yet the cello is a gem by any standards. Pretty great all around, and considering its inclusion with the rest of the orchestra, even harder to beat.

In this realm, I am only equally or more impressed by CSSS and Embertone's Joshua Bell.


----------



## JDK88

I would like the option to buy the Pro instruments as an expansion to Core but without the extra mics.


----------



## jaketanner

Mike T said:


> Yes Jake. There are precious few good sampled solo strings out there, whether due to bad tone, bad programming, or both. The balance struck here is exceptional. The first violin might be less smooth in its higher transitions, yet the cello is a gem by any standards. Pretty great all around, and considering its inclusion with the rest of the orchestra, even harder to beat.
> 
> In this realm, I am only equally or more impressed by CSSS and Embertone's Joshua Bell.


I may take another listen then...and I have JB violin, that is certainly among the best out there...CSSS which I have also, I don't get along with it either...just doesn't work for me outside of a first chair for CSS (which is shy I got it anyway). I also have SF solo strings...but I will take another listen to the leaders.


----------



## CT

jaketanner said:


> I may take another listen then...and I have JB violin, that is certainly among the best out there...CSSS which I have also, I don't get along with it either...just doesn't work for me outside of a first chair for CSS (which is shy I got it anyway). I also have SF solo strings...but I will take another listen to the leaders.



Must be the most difficult sampling to do right aside from the human voice. Of the 18 or so solo string collections I can think of off the top of my head, only several are at a level that I'd say approaches a satisfying degree of musicality.


----------



## jaketanner

Mike T said:


> Must be the most difficult sampling to do right aside from the human voice. Of the 18 or so solo string collections I can think of off the top of my head, only several are at a level that I'd say approaches a satisfying degree of musicality.


JB I love, and find it very easy to play and get it to do what I want. Tina G, is also quite good, but the sound can get very repetitive fast. I love the SOS from Performance Samples, but legato only...lol I do actually like the Blakus cello though. And from what I remember, VSL has some decent solo strings also. 

Have you used Cinesamples solo strings? I have them, and I think they sound great...playability isn't the best, and only one type of legato and limited articulations...but the overall sound is quite nice.


----------



## CT

Cinestrings Solo is on my "eh" list. Not awful, not that impressive either.


----------



## jaketanner

Mike T said:


> Cinestrings Solo is on my "eh" list. Not awful, not that impressive either.


The violin has a character I can’t get from others. Especially with portamento. I wrote a lot of middle eastern type music and it just fits that style. And this too, I got as a first chair. Any real soaking work I use dedicated libraries. But I will be playing around more with the leaders in BBC for sure.


----------



## Petrucci

Yeah, I love Cinestrings Solo Strings too, especially Violin and Cello - very soulful!


----------



## Sean

I FINALLY caved and bought Core. I was honestly just waiting for my company to fix an issue with paying me for the past month.


----------



## jaketanner

Sean said:


> I FINALLY caved and bought Core. I was honestly just waiting for my company to fix an issue with paying me for the past month.


You will want Pro very soon.


----------



## Sean

jaketanner said:


> You will want Pro very soon.


I will resist the GAS!


----------



## jaketanner

Sean said:


> I will resist the GAS!


Yeah...LOL good luck . But seriously, it's well worth it.


----------



## Markrs

jaketanner said:


> Yeah...LOL good luck . But seriously, it's well worth it.


Like a few on here, I'm not sure I want all those mic positions plus it would require getting a new SSD!


----------



## jaketanner

Markrs said:


> Like a few on here, I'm not sure I want all those mix positions plus it would require getting a new SSD!


I know it seems useless, but I tell you that if you are doing a lot of orchestral work, those extra mics are wonders...besides the mics, you get leaders and extended instruments. I can not live with just one mic mix...it's too limiting, and so far I don't have one library where I use the mixed mics instead of creating my own blend. Just depends on need.

Yes...a new SSD, but that much is pretty inevitable for us...LOL


----------



## Jetzer

Really considering picking up BBCSO Core for this prize. Is it really only 20gb in size?
I really don't need it for my main rig, although it is a nice addition, but since it has such a small footprint it is perfect for my laptop. BBCSO, omnisphere, zebra and some fabfilter and I have a really nice travelling rig.

I already have all my orchestral needs covered with SSO, EW Hollywood, Chamber Strings...wondering if it really adds something even on my main rig.

Quick question, in the free Discover the spiccato patches are not responding to velocoty but to the modhweel for dyamics, is this also the case with Core?


----------



## mybadmemory

Jetzer said:


> Quick question, in the free Discover the spiccato patches are not responding to velocoty but to the modhweel for dyamics, is this also the case with Core?



No. Default is velocity.


----------



## Jetzer

Thanks, that's great.


----------



## mussnig

Jetzer said:


> I really don't need it for my main rig, although it is a nice addition, but since it has such a small footprint it is perfect for my laptop.



I think it's 24 Gig but yes, for a complete Orchestra that's not a lot.

Be aware though that you can't purge Samples - at least not as easily and conveniently as in Kontakt (so you can purge complete Articulations - but even purging Artics works easier in Kontakt, in my opinion). I very much hope that this will be improved with future updates ... 

So if you want to use it on a Laptop, you will probably need at least 16 GB RAM to be able to work with it conveniently.


----------



## Jetzer

I often use one articulation per track so if you can just unload complete articulations it should be fine for me, 16gb is what I have


----------



## mussnig

Jetzer said:


> I often use one articulation per track so if you can just unload complete articulations it should be fine for me, 16gb is what I have



In that case you might want to create your own versions of the Patches. The standard is that all artics are loaded and sadly it doesn't load nearly as fast as Kontakt Libs. But I hope my posts are not too negative. The value for the money (especially with the current discount) is amazing!


----------



## Trevor Meier

FWIW I do exactly this - split patches (legato / longs / shorts / FX) based on the free templates they provide and laptop RAM usage isn’t an issue for me most days. If it is I power down the tracks I don’t need


----------



## Jetzer

mussnig said:


> In that case you might want to create your own versions of the Patches. The standard is that all artics are loaded and sadly it doesn't load nearly as fast as Kontakt Libs. But I hope my posts are not too negative. The value for the money (especially with the current discount) is amazing!



No not at all, it sounds good. I tend to use track presets anyway these days, so that is no issue at all!


----------



## Sean

So far it seems to meet my expectations. Strings and percussion sound good, I'm not very picky about woodwinds so they sound fine, brass sound pretty meh to me.


----------



## jaketanner

@paulthomson sorry to hear about the new lockdowns. Will this prolong the release of the bbc GUI update?


----------



## Alex Fraser

jaketanner said:


> @paulthomson sorry to hear about the new lockdowns. Will this prolong the release of the bbc GUI update?


I hope it _is_ delayed. Safety first. Here in the UK, we're in a spot of bother..


----------



## Bluemount Score

Alex Fraser said:


> I hope it _is_ delayed. Safety first. Here in the UK, we're in the shit-ola at the minute..


Yup, recently heard about that many times here in Germany... be safe!


----------



## jaketanner

Alex Fraser said:


> I hope it _is_ delayed. Safety first. Here in the UK, we're in a spot of bother..


Well one has nothing to do with the other. Meaning that maybe it’s done and can be released from home or their remote stations. Not to risk safety.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

jaketanner said:


> @paulthomson sorry to hear about the new lockdowns. Will this prolong the release of the bbc GUI update?


What do you mean GUI update?
I thought it was just content...


----------



## jaketanner

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> What do you mean GUI update?
> I thought it was just content...


Damn...really? I thought it was an update to the player...better RAM management...that's what CS told me via email...said to wait until they update their player, because I was having RAM issues.


----------



## Theladur

Oh please, Great Lord of Spitfire, let us have both.
Because we've been good composers this year.


----------



## Trevor Meier

I don’t know what you’ve been seeing @Theladur but I’m pretty sure @jaketanner is getting a lump of coal in his RAM stocking


----------



## jaketanner

Trevor Meier said:


> I don’t know what you’ve been seeing @Theladur but I’m pretty sure @jaketanner is getting a lump of coal in his RAM stocking


Hope not. Lol. The ram usage is terrible for me. Support told me a new version is coming out that should address it. Let’s hope.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> Hope not. Lol. The ram usage is terrible for me. Support told me a new version is coming out that should address it. Let’s hope.



Yeah I think the update is suppose to be including updates to the strings and flutes legatos plus other optimisations.


----------



## muziksculp

John R Wilson said:


> Yeah I think the update is suppose to be including updates to the strings and flutes legatos plus other optimisations.



This year ?


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Yeah I think the update is suppose to be including updates to the strings and flutes legatos plus other optimisations.


that was my understanding as well...hope we don't have to wait much longer.


----------



## John R Wilson

muziksculp said:


> This year ?



I hope so! I was expecting it a week ago.


----------



## dylanmixer

@paulthomson I know you guys are busy, so apologies. Any update on when this might surface?


----------



## jaketanner

dylanmixer said:


> @paulthomson I know you guys are busy, so apologies. Any update on when this might surface?


Christian mentioned might be early in the new year...


----------



## mussnig

jaketanner said:


> Christian mentioned might be early in the new year...



When/where?


----------



## DovesGoWest

BAD NEWS ALL THOSE WAITING FOR THE UPDATE :(

Christen replied to a post i made on his youtube channel asking if the pressie he is talking about tomorrow is the BBCSO update and the reply he just made.

"I think that’s gonna happen early in the New Year. This one is a pressie from me not Spitfire. C x "


----------



## John R Wilson

DovesGoWest said:


> BAD NEWS ALL THOSE WAITING FOR THE UPDATE :(
> 
> Christen replied to a post i made on his youtube channel asking if the pressie he is talking about tomorrow is the BBCSO update and the reply he just made.
> 
> "I think that’s gonna happen early in the New Year. This one is a pressie from me not Spitfire. C x "



Bugger. I am drunk (tipsy)/ok to type and hoped the BBCSO update was their now. I just checked and it wasn't :( :( :( :( I will now have another beer to drown my sorrows. Tomorrow I will attempt to delete this post.


----------



## jaketanner

DovesGoWest said:


> This one is a pressie from me not Spitfire


So what do you suppose this gift is? If it's not a SF gift.


----------



## muziksculp

Is there a list of what the next BBCSO Pro Update will be adding, fixing, improving, ..etc. ? or we don't know yet ?


----------



## Bluemount Score

DovesGoWest said:


> BAD NEWS ALL THOSE WAITING FOR THE UPDATE :(
> 
> Christen replied to a post i made on his youtube channel asking if the pressie he is talking about tomorrow is the BBCSO update and the reply he just made.
> 
> "I think that’s gonna happen early in the New Year. This one is a pressie from me not Spitfire. C x "


It's fine. I think at this point we shouldn't expect any major updates / releases this year anymore.


----------



## Bluemount Score

muziksculp said:


> Is there a list of what the next BBCSO Pro Update will be adding, fixing, improving, ..etc. ? or we don't know yet ?


Not an officialy released one, but one that got shown to us by accident during BF sales:



Spoiler



Cimbasso, updated legatos for strings and winds as well as muted brass (long and short notes) is what is what I remember


----------



## John R Wilson

muziksculp said:


> Is there a list of what the next BBCSO Pro Update will be adding, fixing, improving, ..etc. ? or we don't know yet ?



They did accidently put up details about it on black Friday. I believe it was this: 

- 35GB of new and updated content 
- New muted brass techniques 
- New 'Extended Legatos for a selection of brass and woodwind instruments 
- Updated legatos for flute and strings 
- Various bug fixes, tweaks and optimisations.


----------



## Rory

Guy Michelmore fans may be interested to know that he's doing a BBC SO Christmas Day Special tomorrow:


----------



## Rory

I write with a piano library and BBC SO Pro. Could someone who uses BBC SO and Abbey Road One together please explain to me how, and at what point, Abbey Road fits into a piano/BBC SO writing workflow, and what it adds.

Accepting Christian Henson's contention in a recent video that the two libraries mix well acoustically, I could really use some help on these questions. I'm asking because Abbey Road is again at its introductory price. I'm willing to purchase it, but I can't articulate a reason. Also, I'm concerned that it might actually make the writing process more complicated, especially if it's basically a sketching tool whose tracks, in the end, have to be replaced with BBC SO instrument tracks. If the Abbey Road tracks remain in a BBC SO/Abbey Road workflow, what is the point, apart from solos, of having the BBC SO instruments?

I have a clear idea of where two other Spitfire libraries that I'm considering - Eric Whitacre Choir and Rugby School Organ - would fit into my workflow, but I don't have the same clarity when it comes to Abbey Road One.

Thanks and Merry Christmas!


----------



## mybadmemory

Do we know what the update will include? It would make the decision of upgrading from core to pro during the sale easier if we knew what was coming!

What has been confirmed and what are still rumors? If all the rumors are true I’d gladly update to pro for the current price, but if not, I’d be a bit more hesitant.


Currently I’ve heard talks about:

* Muted Brass
* Updated legatos
* More Extended Legatos 
* Additional instruments
* Ensemble patches
* Piano


Could @Spitfire Team or @SpitfireSupport comment anything on the contents of the update before the current sale is over?


----------



## DovesGoWest

mybadmemory said:


> Do we know what the update will include? It would make the decision of upgrading from core to pro during the sale easier if we knew what was coming!
> 
> What has been confirmed and what are still rumors? If all the rumors are true I’d gladly update to pro for the current price, but if not, I’d be a bit more hesitant.
> 
> 
> Currently I’ve heard talks about:
> 
> * Muted Brass
> * Updated legatos
> * More Extended Legatos
> * Additional instruments
> * Ensemble patches
> * Piano
> 
> 
> Could @Spitfire Team or @SpitfireSupport comment anything on the contents of the update before the current sale is over?


From what i have heard\read the list is as follows at least in Core:

Muted brass.
Updated legatos.
More Extended Legatos for other existing instruments.
General performance improvements.

I have heard\read nothing from Spitfire regarding new instruments other than the muted brass, ensembles which i doubt they would make for BBCSO as thats the abbey road approach, the BBC SO doesnt have a piano.


----------



## Trevor Meier

I haven’t heard anything about ensembles. I’ve heard that the piano was desired but may not happen now because of Covid and the impending closure of Maida Vale


----------



## DovesGoWest

Trevor Meier said:


> I haven’t heard anything about ensembles. I’ve heard that the piano was desired but may not happen now because of Covid and the impending closure of Maida Vale


True however wouldn't this just be a piano sampled at Maida Vale rather than been part of the BBCSO, I only say this as according to the BBCSO site they don't have a pianist listed as been part of the orchestra. So if Spitfire were to sample one it strictly wouldn't be part of the BBCSO license


----------



## Toecutter

Trevor Meier said:


> I haven’t heard anything about ensembles. I’ve heard that the piano was desired but may not happen now because of Covid and the impending closure of Maida Vale


I hope SF fix the brass at least before considering BBCSO "done". A piano would be nice of course but the brass is top priority in my opinion. They way that is currently presented is not doing any justice to the BBC players.


----------



## mussnig

Toecutter said:


> I hope SF fix the brass at least before considering BBCSO "done". A piano would be nice of course but the brass is top priority in my opinion. They way that is currently presented is not doing any justice to the BBC players.


While I agree with your statement in general, it would be hard to do a really good Brass Library for the price point. It's already a very good package altogether (especially with the discounts) but for the price we can't have everything. But obviously, paid extensions would be nice (of course, if the value for money is ok).


----------



## styledelk

The brass is fine. You people loco.


----------



## mussnig

styledelk said:


> The brass is fine. You people loco.


I think it's more than fine in the context of classical orchestral music but some patches can sound a little rough when they are exposed. But I agree, if you really make use of the various patches, you can get very good results (just listen to some of the very good demos, e.g. by Andy Blaney).


----------



## Toecutter

It's okay to disagree but please spare us of the insults. Anyway take this



The brass is underwhelming and not as remotely expressive as it should be


----------



## styledelk

That just seems like an unrealistic expectation. Or at least different expectations. 
I can’t stomach more than a couple minutes of Mr. James so I’m not sure what to find wrong there. Other than just the things that are wrong. Which are still fine. Because humans and computers.


----------



## Brasart

Toecutter said:


> It's okay to disagree but please spare us of the insults. Anyway take this
> 
> 
> 
> The brass is underwhelming and not as remotely expressive as it should be



If you want a brass library with 36 dynamic layers, multiple mics & a gigantic articulation list you can buy things like JXL or Berlin Brass, which costs as much (or more) as BBCSO Pro alone.

Is BBCSO's brass perfect? No
Is it "broken"? No

Posts like "hope they fix the brass" are insulting because it implies it is broken, which it isn't — you know what you're buying, there's no deceit, no broken promises.
If you want to sound like a real orchestra playing Wagner, buy a 3000-6000$ round of orchestral libraries that will give you enough room to try and sound like the real thing (or better yet, hire an orchestra).
The package is complete, you're paying to have an entire orchestra at a worth of 1000$ (which is quite low, considering). There is nothing to fix really.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Brasart said:


> If you want a brass library with 36 dynamic layers, multiple mics & a gigantic articulation list you can buy things like JXL or Berlin Brass, which costs as much (or more) as BBCSO Pro alone.
> 
> Is BBCSO's brass perfect? No
> Is it "broken"? No
> 
> Posts like "hope they fix the brass" are insulting because it implies it is broken, which it isn't — you know what you're buying, there's no deceit, no broken promises.
> If you want to sound like a real orchestra playing Wagner, buy a 3000-6000$ round of orchestral libraries that will give you enough room to try and sound like the real thing (or better yet, hire an orchestra).
> The package is complete, you're paying to have an entire orchestra at a worth of 1000$ (which is quite low, considering). There is nothing to fix really.


Yupp in my opinion the low brass for the most part is actually very good. Trumpets and horns I like to replace, but wouldn't call them totally useless either


----------



## Brasart

I just wish Orchestral Tools would fix Metropolis Ark I :-(

The orchestra is underwhelming and not as remotely expressive as the real thing:


=> See how meaningless this kind of post is? Ark I isn't broken, there's no need to fix it, it is what is for what you buy, it's not made to play everything just like BBCSO is not made to play everything; and if you want something else fortunately you can buy a broad variety of different libraries for different uses!


----------



## Dr.BrainyPopsin

mybadmemory said:


> Do we know what the update will include? It would make the decision of upgrading from core to pro during the sale easier if we knew what was coming!
> 
> What has been confirmed and what are still rumors? If all the rumors are true I’d gladly update to pro for the current price, but if not, I’d be a bit more hesitant.
> 
> 
> Currently I’ve heard talks about:
> 
> * Muted Brass
> * Updated legatos
> * More Extended Legatos
> * Additional instruments
> * Ensemble patches
> * Piano
> 
> 
> Could @Spitfire Team or @SpitfireSupport comment anything on the contents of the update before the current sale is over?


hi, off your topic, but with the new discount what spitfire lib should I get to make music for tv, movies, cinematics, documentaries... something versatile and very good, I saw BBC core but may be I should buy pro? and so which pro I should get according to you???spitfire sympho...


----------



## Dr.BrainyPopsin

hi, off your topic, but with the new discount what spitfire lib should I get to make music for tv, movies, cinematics, documentaries... something versatile and very good, I saw BBC core but may be I should buy pro? and so which pro I should get according to you???spitfire sympho...


----------



## Toecutter

Gosh some of you are just impossible to reason with. Good for you if you like the brass in BBCSO but A LOT of people don't for legtimate reasons. Trying to dismiss people who point flaws in it is not fair to any of us. Maybe you can't hear the issues or don't care enough but at least show some respect for those who are unhappy with it. I'm not here calling you a fanboy but I can see why some people say that about SF users. You can thank us later if SF ever addresses those issues and improve the brass in BBCSO.


----------



## Markrs

I could hear what Daniel James was talking about and I agree it is probably do to less dynamic layers (he did have his expression level to full which I felt did extenuate the issue), as there is a maximum of 3 or even less. However I am okay with that for the price of BBCSO Pro.

I also recall Christian (or imagined, as I can't recall where I heard this) somewhere mentioning that BBCSO was not ment to be a Hollywood orchestra and things like the trumpet don't go the full level the way they do in other orchestras. The reason for this is probably not to compete against their own Symphony range and the Abbey Road release, which given how long these things take they would have already had planned in when they made BBCSO.

I also think part of these type of disagreements is that we are all different and some notices these differences more than others. This is natural and I respect those that hear those issues and would like them fixed and those for which it is not an issue.


----------



## styledelk

Toecutter said:


> Gosh some of you are just impossible to reason with. Good for you if you like the brass in BBCSO but A LOT of people don't for legtimate reasons. Trying to dismiss people who point flaws in it is not fair to any of us. Maybe you can't hear the issues or don't care enough but at least show some respect for those who are unhappy with it. I'm not here calling you a fanboy but I can see why some people say that about SF users. You can thank us later if SF ever addresses those issues and improve the brass in BBCSO.


Improve is different than fix. There are some issues, and most of them are from dynamic layers. Expecting they’ll just throw some more on is unrealistic. I’m sure they can make some script adjustments, sure. But fix and major improvements are unrealistic and probably different than the intended scope of the library.


----------



## dylanmixer

Toecutter said:


> It's okay to disagree but please spare us of the insults. Anyway take this
> 
> 
> 
> The brass is underwhelming and not as remotely expressive as it should be



They've since fixed a lot of things since Daniel James reviewed BBCSO. I agree that a lot of it misses the upper FF layer, and I wish it was more, but I like it for what it is. Actually it's the only brass in my template capable of doing the lower dynamics well, and sounds great for warmer classical type playing. I can do the loud hybrid thing with Century Brass and Talos. The BBC stuff fills the rest.


----------



## Toecutter

styledelk said:


> I’m sure they can make some script adjustments, sure. But fix and major improvements are unrealistic and probably different than the intended scope of the library.


I'd be happy with that honestly. There's a lot that can be improved with just scripting. See how much mileage Performance Samples gets out of even 1 dyn layer libraries like Solos of the Sea. Even if SF takes the cuivre articulation and uses it to add an extra dynamic. It's different from what cuivre is supposed to be used in its pure form but you can edit it to fake a top layer. I could do that myself in Kontakt but not possible in their player.


----------



## muziksculp

Any idea if the BBCSO Pro update new material is from newly sampling session at Maida Vale Studios, with the the BBOSO players ? or was it from the original sampling sessions they did ?


----------



## Brasart

Toecutter said:


> Gosh some of you are just impossible to reason with. Good for you if you like the brass in BBCSO but A LOT of people don't for legtimate reasons. Trying to dismiss people who point flaws in it is not fair to any of us. Maybe you can't hear the issues or don't care enough but at least show some respect for those who are unhappy with it. I'm not here calling you a fanboy but I can see why some people say that about SF users. You can thank us later if SF ever addresses those issues and improve the brass in BBCSO.


You're not pointing flaws, you're saying that they should "fix it" (whatever that means), and that it doesn't sound like the "real thing". I mean... ok?
When I need a tighter, brighter, bigger brass sound I use something else, and I don't complain about a product that's giving me what it was advertised to do.
Like I don't complain about Albion ONE not giving me a chamber sound? Doesn't mean they should fix Albion ONE, whatever that would mean either

And again, I'm all for better things that I don't have to pay for (those mutes, the bass flute... we already have more than what we paid for), but a drive-by post saying "fix the thing" is neither helpful, relevant, or simply truthful.


----------



## Brasart

I would also recommend using simple EQs and/or saturation, as we often forget how efficient it can be.
Here's the man himself showing what can become of BBCSO's bones with a bit of EQ matching from a bigger brass library:


----------



## Rory

I think the problem is people believing that their personal taste and desires represent an objective benchmark, and that anything that doesn't do what they want is defective and needs to be fixed.


----------



## ed buller

Brasart said:


> And again, I'm all for better things that I don't have to pay for (those mutes, the bass flute... we already have more than what we paid for), but a drive-by post saying "fix the thing" is neither helpful, relevant, or simply truthful.


I have declared my love of this Library ad nauseum: however I go on record as saying the French horns are naff. They lack the dynamics and bite i'd expect in french horns. Especially the BBC. I have watched them play and record many times. To me it feels like the top layer is missing. To me they need "fixing"

best

ed


----------



## Brasart

ed buller said:


> I have declared my love of this Library ad nauseum: however I go on record as saying the French horns are naff. They lack the dynamics and bite i'd expect in french horns. Especially the BBC. I have watched them play and record many times. To me it feels like the top layer is missing. To me they need "fixing"
> 
> best
> 
> ed



I mean sure, if someone jumps in the thread to say what you just wrote it's completely fine, and discussion is welcomed.
But a drive-by post that say "fix the brass" because "it doesn't sound like the real thing" is just... meaningless? 
You're pointing out a specific need on a specific instrument, but you're not mindlessly dismissing the entire brass for no specific reason, as if it was a broken mess -- which it's not.


----------



## Fleer

muziksculp said:


> Any idea if the BBCSO Pro update new material is from newly sampling session at Maida Vale Studios, with the the BBOSO players ? or was it from the original sampling sessions they did ?


I remember Mr Henson saying they already had recorded material ready for inclusion.


----------



## muziksculp

Fleer said:


> I remember Mr Henson saying they already had recorded material ready for inclusion.


I see. I wonder if they still have access to Maida Vale Studios, and the BBCSO Players if they needed to do more sampling sessions ?

Although, I think they are more focused on AR-Studios for now.


----------



## Toecutter

Brasart said:


> I mean sure, if someone jumps in the thread to say what you just wrote it's completely fine, and discussion is welcomed.
> But a drive-by post that say "fix the brass" because "it doesn't sound like the real thing" is just... meaningless?
> You're pointing out a specific need on a specific instrument, but you're not mindlessly dismissing the entire brass for no specific reason, as if it was a broken mess -- which it's not.


It was discussed ad nauseam here that the issues lie in the lack of dynamics. So you either follow the entire discussion or don't come here with your shiny white armor calling other opinions meaningless, when you don't even know what's been discussed. Even if you want to use that as an excuse to attack me, sure, but you still have two ears so use them and listen to what the brass section of the BBC is all about and compare to what you have in the library. That's why I posted that video. At least own up your words instead of kissing Ed's ass XD


----------



## Brasart

Toecutter said:


> It was discussed ad nauseam here that the issues lie in the lack of dynamics. So you either follow the entire discussion or don't come here with your shiny white armor calling other opinions meaningless, when you don't even know what's been discussed. Even if you want to use that as an excuse to attack me, sure, but you still have two ears so use them and listen to what the brass section of the BBC is all about and compare to what you have in the library. That's why I posted that video. At least own up your words instead of kissing Ed's ass XD


Let's be clear here:

1. Chill out, no one is attacking you, and this distasteful message has no place here.
2. I've been in this thread for far longer than you, I've been following the entire discussion.
Ed Buller is posting legitimate criticism, however you're simply shitposting.

Behave yourself a bit, don't try to be mean, and have a merry christmas


----------



## Toecutter

Brasart said:


> Let's be clear here:
> 
> 1. Chill out, no one is attacking you, and this distasteful message has no place here.
> 2. I've been in this thread for far longer than you, I've been following the entire discussing.
> Ed Buller is posting legitimate criticism, however you're simple shitposting.
> 
> Behave yourself a bit, don't try to be mean, and have a merry christmas


Take a look at the mirror and quit the condescending behavior, it doesn't look good after that "drive-by", meaningless", "shitposting" nonsense, you hypocrite.


----------



## Markrs

I think as it is Christmas day I think people can agree to disagree. Given the year it has been, let's appreciate what we have


----------



## yiph2

Toecutter said:


> Take a look at the mirror and quit the condescending behavior, it doesn't look good after that "drive-by", meaningless", "shitposting" nonsense, you hypocrite.


"Gosh some of you are just impossible to reason with." and he's the hypocrite?


----------



## ed buller

Toecutter said:


> At least own up your words instead of kissing Ed's ass XD


can't he do both ?...it IS christmas !

e


----------



## Toecutter

yiph2 said:


> "Gosh some of you are just impossible to reason with." and he's the hypocrite?


And an ass-kisser, let's not forget that! Seriously though, if you are going to selectively quote things and be this one-sided and ignore everything else said about the actual issues before I was attacked by this guy, what else can I say? It's so unfair and no point in keeping this going. Enjoy BBCSO!


----------



## Lambchops

In my 30 odd years as a professional musician, I must say one thing I never thought I’d see was people hurling unpleasantries and insults at each other over a disagreement about the upper dynamic layers of a brass sample library. 
It’s Christmas Day. 
Hope everyone’s having a nice time and enjoying their presents


----------



## StefVR

Is there any eta to make the Spitfire Player Mac M1 compatible? It loads up but I can't hear anything and it doesn't recognise my midi input.


----------



## JDK88

What are the "updated legatos" about? More realism? Or just bug fixes?


----------



## Bluemount Score

JDK88 said:


> What are the "updated legatos" about? More realism? Or just bug fixes?


No one knows so far! In fact we shouldn't even know about any update content so far


----------



## ridgero

StefVR said:


> Is there any eta to make the Spitfire Player Mac M1 compatible? It loads up but I can't hear anything and it doesn't recognise my midi input.


No problem on my M1 MB Air and Logic Pro

Once I had an issue where I needed to open a second track, the first didn’t work.


----------



## MaxOctane

It wouldn‘t be Christmas without a fight at the dinner table!


----------



## StefVR

ridgero said:


> No problem on my M1 MB Air and Logic Pro
> 
> Once I had an issue where I needed to open a second track, the first didn’t work.



That worked. Many many thanks for the answer. I would have assumed its not compatible yet.


----------



## Sean

I think the brass is for sure the weakest part of BBCSO, and wish it were better. But considering its price I suppose it's reasonable. I also just wish they did the horns justice, those just don't sound good to me. Everything else is alright but of course not as good as a dedicated brass library would be. Unfortunately I doubt we'll ever get a "fix" for these, since it would likely take more recording or re-recording.


----------



## jaketanner

Sean said:


> I think the brass is for sure the weakest part of BBCSO, and wish it were better. But considering its price I suppose it's reasonable. I also just wish they did the horns justice, those just don't sound good to me. Everything else is alright but of course not as good as a dedicated brass library would be. Unfortunately I doubt we'll ever get a "fix" for these, since it would likely take more recording or re-recording.


I would have rather seen the winds get less attention and have the brass be better.


----------



## Sean

jaketanner said:


> I would have rather seen the winds get less attention and have the brass be better.


As a brass player I couldn't agree more


----------



## dzilizzi

Rory said:


> I write with a piano library and BBC SO Pro. Could someone who uses BBC SO and Abbey Road One together please explain to me how, and at what point, Abbey Road fits into a piano/BBC SO writing workflow, and what it adds.
> 
> Accepting Christian Henson's contention in a recent video that the two libraries mix well acoustically, I could really use some help on these questions. I'm asking because Abbey Road is again at its introductory price. I'm willing to purchase it, but I can't articulate a reason. Also, I'm concerned that it might actually make the writing process more complicated, especially if it's basically a sketching tool whose tracks, in the end, have to be replaced with BBC SO instrument tracks. If the Abbey Road tracks remain in a BBC SO/Abbey Road workflow, what is the point, apart from solos, of having the BBC SO instruments?
> 
> I have a clear idea of where two other Spitfire libraries that I'm considering - Eric Whitacre Choir and Rugby School Organ - would fit into my workflow, but I don't have the same clarity when it comes to Abbey Road One.
> 
> Thanks and Merry Christmas!


I haven't tried using them together yet and my computer is currently out of commission waiting on a SATA extension cable. I'm going to try setting up a VEPro setup and am moving sample drives, so I can't really check. 

You may not find ARO usable. Christian does use ensemble libraries where he can, probably to speed up the workflow. It doesn't sound like you do? However, there are separate trumpets and horns, if I remember correctly, which might be useful to beef up the Brass section. Otherwise, if you don't use ensemble libraries, ARO may not be that useful. And it will be on sale again.


----------



## muk

Let me chime in again with why I think the BBCSO brass could be much improved.

How many dynamic layers are enough, or too little, comes down to personal preference. You may find 3 dynamic layers enough for brass, or not enough. What limits me personally here is also the way these dynamic layers are implemented.

On the horn, for example, you have these three dynamic layers. The problem for me is that at the cc1 value of exactly 60 (48% on the Spitfire Player), the library crossfades to the top dynamic layer. And that dynamic layer is the cuivré sound (that bold, brassy kind of sound). Problem is, if you listen to a symphonic orchestra, the brass players will very rarely play cuivré. It is a sound that is only used for the very top dynamic moments in a piece. Often it is not used at all. (Period instruments reach a cuivré sound much sooner than modern instruments, but that is another topic).

The BBCSO horn starts to cuivré halfway through its dynamic range. That is at around mp to mf. This limits the dynamic range I can get without the cuivré sound up to only mp to mf. For me, that is simply not enough in a standard orchestral context. In orchestral playing, no horn player would ever use cuivré at mf.

I especially don't understand the decision to crossfade to cuivré this early since there is an extra patch for cuivré. As cuivré is already covered in an extra patch, I don't need it on over half of the legato patch as well. Much rather had I had more dynamic range for the standard legato playing. (For the sustain patch it is exactly the same, btw. Cuivré starts at cc1 = 60).

This means that you have one and a half patch for playing cuivré, but only half a patch (legato for cc1 from 0 to 59) for playing non cuivré - which in orchestral context makes probably for 99% of the playing. For me personally, two dynamic layers (without the cuivré, which is also covered in a separate patch) covering only half of the dynamic range (cc1 from 0 to 59) is by far not enough. And that's why for me personally, the brass in BBCSO is lacking for how I use orchestral brass in my writing.


----------



## Cinebient

I am still thinking of getting Core....but you guys makes me sad with all the talk about the brass 

But the only other complete orchestra library I have is The Orchestra 2 (and The Spitfire Studio Orchestra Core, only Strings are Pro) and its a totally different thing so I thought BBC Core would be nice for the more on rhythmic and in your face stuff. 
I also experienced that The Orchestra blends better than I thought together with BBC Discovery, so I could layer them here and there. Add some evil brass to BBC, why not.
Knowing that dedicated Brass, strings, woodwinds etc. libraries might be mostly better i really want another option for a complete orchestra and it seems BBC Core is for the price a great choice (?).


----------



## muk

Cinebient said:


> I am still thinking of getting Core....but you guys makes me sad with all the talk about the brass



While for me personally the use of the brass in BBCSO is limited, I wouldn't focus on it too much. For one, other people like the brass just fine (@Mike T for example). Also, there are a lot of things that you still can do with the brass as it is. If you can support/replace BBCSO brass with another library where it falls short for you, you should be fine too.



Cinebient said:


> and it seems BBC Core is for the price a great choice (?).



Absolutely. You get an insane amount of great content for a very reasonable price. In my opinion the recordings in BBCSO are fantastic. They really shine with natural depth and width. The recording quality is really a standout for me in this library, giving the often cited beautiful and natural blend of the instruments. Also you get a good selection of articulations for all the most common instruments of the orchestra. Despite my complaints with the brass, it's a fantastic package really.


----------



## mussnig

Cinebient said:


> I am still thinking of getting Core....but you guys makes me sad with all the talk about the brass
> 
> But the only other complete orchestra library I have is The Orchestra 2 (and The Spitfire Studio Orchestra Core, only Strings are Pro) and its a totally different thing so I thought BBC Core would be nice for the more on rhythmic and in your face stuff.
> I also experienced that The Orchestra blends better than I thought together with BBC Discovery, so I could layer them here and there. Add some evil brass to BBC, why not.
> Knowing that dedicated Brass, strings, woodwinds etc. libraries might be mostly better i really want another option for a complete orchestra and it seems BBC Core is for the price a great choice (?).


It still is a great choice given the price. It's also a nice addition to the Studio Orchestra: it gives you a nice symphonic strings section (which SStS doesn't really offer) but you can still use the Studio Orchestra in general to give more definition to certain sections of BBCSO. Also the WWs of BBCSO will certainly give you something different from the Studio WWs.

Regarding Brass: it's probably hard to find a good priced complete orchestra that will satisfy everyone with the Brass. I suggest you also take each opinion (obviously mine included) with a grain of salt and listen to the demos (you will find a lot for BBCSO - especially on "The Page").
If at some point you want more/different Brass, I highly recommend Infinite Brass: it's a completely different approach from everything else you seem to have, is highly flexible and probably blends perfectly with everything else if you have a modest reverb (since it's completely dry).


----------



## Markrs

Cinebient said:


> I am still thinking of getting Core....but you guys makes me sad with all the talk about the brass
> 
> But the only other complete orchestra library I have is The Orchestra 2 (and The Spitfire Studio Orchestra Core, only Strings are Pro) and its a totally different thing so I thought BBC Core would be nice for the more on rhythmic and in your face stuff.
> I also experienced that The Orchestra blends better than I thought together with BBC Discovery, so I could layer them here and there. Add some evil brass to BBC, why not.
> Knowing that dedicated Brass, strings, woodwinds etc. libraries might be mostly better i really want another option for a complete orchestra and it seems BBC Core is for the price a great choice (?).


As a rule on VI-control you will hear more comments and disagreements about faults than the good parts. This can give a false impression that a library isn't really good. As @muk mentioned these "faults" can be vary from individual with many not experiencing them. Often you don't get much conversation on the strong parts as there is general agreement regarding them.

Core is excellent value, I have it though I am considering the upgrade to Pro. The Jake Jackson mic mix is excellent.


----------



## ed buller

I think the the lower dynamics on the BBC Brass are great !....it's only really the french Horns from f-to fff. I'd argue f is the highest we get. 

AS to the mod wheel dynamics again I disagree with some here ( albeit it in a gentle and christmasy manner ) I think this is really good crossfading. As much as I love CINEBRASS there are nothing like as smooth as this. 


Best

e
View attachment BBC HORNS a4 MOD wheel.mp3


----------



## Cinebient

Thanks, sounds good so far. I also have for brass f.e. Forzo from Heavyocity which I quite like but find it hard to blend with others. Anyway I am more into emotional slow and ambient stuff rather than these hard hitting trailer and at the end I am no pro at all and could also need a good learning tool for orchestration and from what I read and saw BBC could also be a good starting point.
There is just one thing I am not sure about I heard in some videos and walkthroughs and also hear myself in Discovery (of course it might be much better in Core) is that dynamic crossfades are not smooth to my ears and while I am no pro at all I am very sensitive to such transitions. I always hear almost like a step/jump. 
In general I much much prefer the Spitfire Player over Kontakt since I am familiar with it due to Labs, Discovery (interesting is it seems I can use some hidden editing trough the Touch Bar which is not available on the GUI inn Discovery, like release) and I also own EWC and HZS. 
I would die for an envelope control per voice, that is the one thing I really miss in the Spitfire Player.
However, I will not buy any Kontakt library from them anymore (I also have a few more like Albion V, BDT). Otherwise I prefer to resample everything into Logic sampler for these controls beside for legato patches.
While we are at the legatos. This is the weak point in HZS f.e. and depending on mics even annoying and not usable for me, way to steppy and jumps in dynamic/volume here as well and in Discovery these are missing anyway so I cannot judge them. To my surprise even the simple legatos in The Orchestra (especially the lower part of the Celli) are much more pleasing here.
Of course I do not expect an extended legato like in their Chamber Strings (which I considered too but its double the price of BBCore upgrade and I just get more strings).
I tried to watch as many demos as possible because (and this is another reason I think twice to buy another Spitfire library) of the no resale option.


----------



## ed buller

Here are the staccs...they just sound lower in Dynamic...that's it...lovely sound though. 

This BBC first at 127....then Abbey Road Horns at 127

View attachment BBC HORNS Stacc Vs ABBEY RD Stacc.mp3



Best

e


----------



## Markrs

ed buller said:


> Here are the staccs...they just sound lower in Dynamic...that's it...lovely sound though.
> 
> This BBC first at 127....then Abbey Road Horns at 127
> 
> View attachment BBC HORNS Stacc Vs ABBEY RD Stacc.mp3
> 
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> e


Abbey Road horns do sound great for that cinematic sound


----------



## Cinebient

Thanks. Both sound good to me while there is more power in the Abbey Road of course. But here I even would prefer the softer one. So for me it might be all good anyway and I have some more hitting brass to layer at hand i seldom use anyway.


----------



## Cinebient

So as an example, could one (if talented enough) create such kind of orchestral works with mainly BBC Core (plus some add on here and there).


----------



## Bluemount Score

Cinebient said:


> So as an example, could one (if talented enough) create such kind of orchestral works with mainly BBC Core (plus some add on here and there).



The tone (especially the flute) actually reminds me a lot of BBCSO. Of course some sounds you hear in there aren't included in BBCSO (choir, harpsichord, chimes) but besides that, no problem creating this with Core


----------



## Cinebient

Bluemount Score said:


> The tone (especially the flute) actually reminds me a lot of BBCSO. Of course some sounds you hear in there aren't included in BBCSO (choir, harpsichord, chimes) but besides that, no problem creating this with Core


Thank you. I have some choirs, harpsichords and chimes as well elsewhere.
I also find here f.e. the brass is not so present and I like it this way.
I guess for € 220 I will find out soon if BBC Core is the right thing for me 
Its Christmas and the only good thing (of course there is no good thing really about Covid-19) for me about the whole Covid thing was that I got a Corona Bonus for work (happy that I am still allowed to work, my wife is not).


----------



## Kevinside

Is there any information, which orchestra performed the "last unicorn" OST...?


----------



## Gil

ed buller said:


> ...As much as I love CINEBRASS there are nothing like as smooth as this.


Hello,
I'm thinking of getting BBC SO Pro for its homogeneous sound and for its integration with Dorico (through the Steinberg expression map), but @ed buller you remind me that CineBrass seems to sound great.
My question is, knowing that a 60% off is on CineSample bundles (https://vi-control.net/community/th...trings-winds-percussion-pianos-choirs.103303/), could CineSymphony CORE Bundle be a direct competitor to BBC SO Pro (although I have doubts about Kontakt vs brand players like SynchronPlayer).
Thank you!
Best regards,
Gil.


----------



## Toecutter

Sean said:


> I think the brass is for sure the weakest part of BBCSO, and wish it were better. But considering its price I suppose it's reasonable. I also just wish they did the horns justice, those just don't sound good to me. Everything else is alright but of course not as good as a dedicated brass library would be. Unfortunately I doubt we'll ever get a "fix" for these, since it would likely take more recording or re-recording.


There's a lot that can be improved with just scripting. See how much mileage Performance Samples gets out of 1 dyn layer libraries like Solos of the Sea. Even if SF takes the cuivre articulation and uses it to add an extra dynamic. It's different from what cuivre is supposed to be used in its pure form but you can edit it to fake a top layer.

I also agree with this post https://vi-control.net/community/th...ng”-bbc-symphony-orchestra.84345/post-4726110 I can hear the abrupt dynamic switching too. A lot can be done with programming to improve these issues. The horns in Performance Samples Caspian have TWO recorded dynamic layers and sound smoother to me than BBCSO's.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Cinebient said:


> Thank you. I have some choirs, harpsichords and chimes as well elsewhere.
> I also find here f.e. the brass is not so present and I like it this way.
> I guess for € 220 I will find out soon if BBC Core is the right thing for me
> Its Christmas and the only good thing (of course there is no good thing really about Covid-19) for me about the whole Covid thing was that I got a Corona Bonus for work (happy that I am still allowed to work, my wife is not).


Have fun! I think you will enjoy it a lot.


----------



## Cinebient

Kevinside said:


> Is there any information, which orchestra performed the "last unicorn" OST...?


I think it was the London Symphony Orchestra.


----------



## ed buller

Gil said:


> Hello,
> I'm thinking of getting BBC SO Pro for its homogeneous sound and for its integration with Dorico (through the Steinberg expression map), but @ed buller you remind me that CineBrass seems to sound great.
> My question is, knowing that a 60% off is on CineSample bundles (https://vi-control.net/community/th...trings-winds-percussion-pianos-choirs.103303/), could CineSymphony CORE Bundle be a direct competitor to BBC SO Pro (although I have doubts about Kontakt vs brand players like SynchronPlayer).
> Thank you!
> Best regards,
> Gil.


in all honesty ..no....I'm not a fan personally of the Strings or Winds in CINESAMPLES. Perc IS awesome. And other than the french Horns BBCSO is wonderful. Albeit a smaller sound. But it's still the best blended , one stop shop Orchestra I own. It sounds so lifelike and is a joy to use and write with. AND it's on sale !!!

best

e


----------



## Sean

muk said:


> Let me chime in again with why I think the BBCSO brass could be much improved.
> 
> How many dynamic layers are enough, or too little, comes down to personal preference. You may find 3 dynamic layers enough for brass, or not enough. What limits me personally here is also the way these dynamic layers are implemented.
> 
> On the horn, for example, you have these three dynamic layers. The problem for me is that at the cc1 value of exactly 60 (48% on the Spitfire Player), the library crossfades to the top dynamic layer. And that dynamic layer is the cuivré sound (that bold, brassy kind of sound). Problem is, if you listen to a symphonic orchestra, the brass players will very rarely play cuivré. It is a sound that is only used for the very top dynamic moments in a piece. Often it is not used at all. (Period instruments reach a cuivré sound much sooner than modern instruments, but that is another topic).
> 
> The BBCSO horn starts to cuivré halfway through its dynamic range. That is at around mp to mf. This limits the dynamic range I can get without the cuivré sound up to only mp to mf. For me, that is simply not enough in a standard orchestral context. In orchestral playing, no horn player would ever use cuivré at mf.
> 
> I especially don't understand the decision to crossfade to cuivré this early since there is an extra patch for cuivré. As cuivré is already covered in an extra patch, I don't need it on over half of the legato patch as well. Much rather had I had more dynamic range for the standard legato playing. (For the sustain patch it is exactly the same, btw. Cuivré starts at cc1 = 60).
> 
> This means that you have one and a half patch for playing cuivré, but only half a patch (legato for cc1 from 0 to 59) for playing non cuivré - which in orchestral context makes probably for 99% of the playing. For me personally, two dynamic layers (without the cuivré, which is also covered in a separate patch) covering only half of the dynamic range (cc1 from 0 to 59) is by far not enough. And that's why for me personally, the brass in BBCSO is lacking for how I use orchestral brass in my writing.



Totally agree that the x-fade there in the horn is bad and makes it very hard to use. You would never just start hearing a buzz like that around that dynamic with a real french horn player.


Toecutter said:


> There's a lot that can be improved with just scripting. See how much mileage Performance Samples gets out of 1 dyn layer libraries like Solos of the Sea. Even if SF takes the cuivre articulation and uses it to add an extra dynamic. It's different from what cuivre is supposed to be used in its pure form but you can edit it to fake a top layer.
> 
> I also agree with this post https://vi-control.net/community/threads/spitfire-audio-“this-is-london-calling”-bbc-symphony-orchestra.84345/post-4726110 I can hear the abrupt dynamic switching too. A lot can be done with programming to improve these issues. The horns in Performance Samples Caspian have TWO recorded dynamic layers and sound smoother to me than BBCSO's.


The problem for me is I feel like the french horn needs another layer below it's top layer in legato. I don't know much about the actual programming and what not of this so if Spitfire could fix that dynamic switching issue without needing a separate recording of a new dynamic layer than that would be great!


----------



## Cinebient

I guess there could be a lot done with software changes if I look and hear something like StaffPad. It is a different tool not for live playing but if you consider the small sample pool amount/size and hear some of the better demos it sounds really good and it can have smooth dynamic changes.


----------



## Fleer

Don’t mind if the brass don’t do epic but I’d like the cuivré to not kick in as fast.


----------



## Cinebient

Just bought it.....So I will see soon if it was a good decision


----------



## Bluemount Score

Cinebient said:


> Just bought it.....So I will see soon if it was a good decision


Congrats! Feel free to send in some compositions once you found your way into BBCSO


----------



## Trinkets' Toad

From my personal experience I can say that the brass in BBCSO work really well for quiet choral passages at their low dynamic levels. I am not a fan of their legato though (in some of the brass instruments you can barely hear the transitions) but I guess one wouldn't excessively use legato in brass writing anyway. I feel that the marcato articulation is by far the spotlight in this library (playing softly a combination of tenor and bass trombones using the marcato articulation produces a sound I've never heard in any other library) and it obviously does not suffer from the abrupt dynamic crossfade you would hear with other articulations. 

I figured I could attach my attempt at recreating Čajkovskij's swan lake theme from the swan lake ballet relying only on BBCSO Core. The brass-heavy sections are at 1:06 and 2:05.


----------



## SupremeFist

Rory said:


> I write with a piano library and BBC SO Pro. Could someone who uses BBC SO and Abbey Road One together please explain to me how, and at what point, Abbey Road fits into a piano/BBC SO writing workflow, and what it adds.
> 
> Accepting Christian Henson's contention in a recent video that the two libraries mix well acoustically, I could really use some help on these questions. I'm asking because Abbey Road is again at its introductory price. I'm willing to purchase it, but I can't articulate a reason. Also, I'm concerned that it might actually make the writing process more complicated, especially if it's basically a sketching tool whose tracks, in the end, have to be replaced with BBC SO instrument tracks. If the Abbey Road tracks remain in a BBC SO/Abbey Road workflow, what is the point, apart from solos, of having the BBC SO instruments?
> 
> I have a clear idea of where two other Spitfire libraries that I'm considering - Eric Whitacre Choir and Rugby School Organ - would fit into my workflow, but I don't have the same clarity when it comes to Abbey Road One.
> 
> Thanks and Merry Christmas!


Well, you'd want Aroof for the superior brass obvs.  

But I'm interested in the question from the opposite direction, as I have Aroof and HOD and was wondering about getting BBC Core. Most obviously to have proper woodwind sections. But would it be a nightmare to blend them all?


----------



## John R Wilson

SupremeFist said:


> Well, you'd want Aroof for the superior brass obvs.
> 
> But I'm interested in the question from the opposite direction, as I have Aroof and HOD and was wondering about getting BBC Core. Most obviously to have proper woodwind sections. But would it be a nightmare to blend them all?



I'm the opposite  Got BBCSO Pro and EWHO Diamond, now wondering whether to get AROOF for the brass/percussion and get some nice ensemble patches to go with the BBCSO. I do really like the sound of the percussion in AROOF and those horns and trumpets sound very nice.

EWHO Diamond seems to blend quite nicely with BBCSO Pro. I've used Hollywood strings legatos and the Brass with the BBCSO before and it seemed to blend in well. I'm just wondering how well AROOF would go with the BBCSO. I assume it would probably blend pretty well together, especially with all the mic options available.


----------



## Rory

John R Wilson said:


> I'm just wondering how well AROOF would go with the BBCSO. I assume it would probably blend pretty well together, especially with all the mic options available.


Christian Henson has made a video on blending Abbey Road One with Albion and BBC SO.


----------



## Cinebient

So far I really like it but indeed its not quite M1 ready sadly and there are problems under Rosetta as well. 
I hope Spitfire works also on a M1 native version of their player. For now I have to live with it.
F.e. if I load Logic as native ARM the first instance of BBC doesn't make any sound. Loading a second instance then works but the controls exposed in the Touch Bar is mixed up.
If I use Logic under Rosetta, then it all seems to work fine but as with some other plug-ins the Spitfire player adds a lot latency if GUI is open and even miss some midi notes if played fast. It seems a GUI issue other plug-ins (and almost all iOS AUv3 inside Logic suffers from).
maybe I was to fast to want to lay down Kontakt, which works fine in any version. But I hate the tiny GUIs.
So depending on what I want I have to use it under Logic Rosetta and close the GUI if I want to play in midi or I have to use native ARM Logic which brings trouble with first instance and GUI control/exposed parameters.


----------



## John R Wilson

Rory said:


> Christian Henson has made a video on blending Abbey Road One with Albion and BBC SO.



Ended up going for it just now. Might have been a little bit of an impulse but decided that the Abbey Road One would be pretty good edition alongside the BBCSO.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi, 

I noticed that AROOF is available at the Intro price of $349. , I have Albion ONE, and BBCSO Pro, so I'm wondering if adding AROOF will add something special, I didn't purchase it mainly because it lacked Legato Strings, and I already have Albion ONE. Which is similar to AROOF, but has different acoustics. 

So, what do you advice ? Should I just wait for the AR-Modular libraries and add them as needed, and don't bother with getting AROOF at the intro price ? or go for AROOF at intro price, then add AR-Modular libraries as needed ? 

Thanks.


----------



## Rory

muziksculp said:


> Should I just wait for the AR-Modular libraries and add them as needed, and don't bother with getting AROOF at the intro price ? or go for AROOF at intro price, then add AR-Modular libraries as needed ?



Can you add the Abbey Road One modules without Abbey Road One? Anyway, as mentioned above Christian Henson has made a video about using Abbey Road One with Albion and BBC SO.


----------



## muziksculp

Rory said:


> Can you add the Abbey Road One modules without Abbey Road One? Anyway, as mentioned above Christian Henson has made a video about using Abbey Road One with Albion and BBC SO.



I'm guessing yes, that I don't need AROOF to add any of the upcoming AR-One Modules.

A link to C.H's video ?

Oh.. and I just noticed this the BBCSO thread, maybe it would be more suitable to post my question on the AROOF thread.


----------



## Cinebient

ridgero said:


> No problem on my M1 MB Air and Logic Pro
> 
> Once I had an issue where I needed to open a second track, the first didn’t work.


I guess you use the native ARM from Logic version? 
Did you tried it also under Rosetta (so loading Logic under Rosetta which I need to do for some plug-ins not working otherwise), because like I posted before I get terrible latency then but here at least my Touch Bar (well, if you use the MacBook Air you will not notice) shows what I need in the Non-rosetta Logic version the Touch Bar works but I have just empty sliders and have to figure out which does what. F.e. I like to use the Touch Bar for the dynamics. 
Well, it was too good to be true I guess.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I noticed that AROOF is available at the Intro price of $349. , I have Albion ONE, and BBCSO Pro, so I'm wondering if adding AROOF will add something special, I didn't purchase it mainly because it lacked Legato Strings, and I already have Albion ONE. Which is similar to AROOF, but has different acoustics.
> 
> So, what do you advice ? Should I just wait for the AR-Modular libraries and add them as needed, and don't bother with getting AROOF at the intro price ? or go for AROOF at intro price, then add AR-Modular libraries as needed ?
> 
> Thanks.



Do you use ensemble libraries? That's what AROOF is. Do you use Albion ONE much? If not, why are you interested in it? Wait for the modular libraries whenever they come (no ETA).


----------



## Sean

Rory said:


> Can you add the Abbey Road One modules without Abbey Road One? Anyway, as mentioned above Christian Henson has made a video about using Abbey Road One with Albion and BBC SO.


Spitfire confirmed you can buy modules on their own without AROOF


----------



## muziksculp

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Do you use ensemble libraries? That's what AROOF is. Do you use Albion ONE much? If not, why are you interested in it? Wait for the modular libraries whenever they come (no ETA).



Thanks. 

I don't use Ensemble libraries that much. i.e. I sometimes use Ensemble Brass, for a fuller big epic brass sound, but you have a very good point. 

I think I will just wait for the Modular Libraries to come out, and add from them as I see needed.


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I don't use Ensemble libraries that much. i.e. I sometimes use Ensemble Brass, for a fuller big epic brass sound, but you have a very good point.
> 
> I think I will just wait for the Modular Libraries to come out, and add from them as I see needed.


Yes, the only reason to buy if you don't use ensembles is the trumpet and horn sections. However, it's a pretty expensive trumpet and horn library.


----------



## Fleer

While we’re waiting for the BBCSO piano, here’s an interesting freebie from Christian Henson in PianoBook: https://www.pianobook.co.uk/library/family-grand/


----------



## Trash Panda

Rory said:


> I write with a piano library and BBC SO Pro. Could someone who uses BBC SO and Abbey Road One together please explain to me how, and at what point, Abbey Road fits into a piano/BBC SO writing workflow, and what it adds.
> 
> Accepting Christian Henson's contention in a recent video that the two libraries mix well acoustically, I could really use some help on these questions. I'm asking because Abbey Road is again at its introductory price. I'm willing to purchase it, but I can't articulate a reason. Also, I'm concerned that it might actually make the writing process more complicated, especially if it's basically a sketching tool whose tracks, in the end, have to be replaced with BBC SO instrument tracks. If the Abbey Road tracks remain in a BBC SO/Abbey Road workflow, what is the point, apart from solos, of having the BBC SO instruments?
> 
> I have a clear idea of where two other Spitfire libraries that I'm considering - Eric Whitacre Choir and Rugby School Organ - would fit into my workflow, but I don't have the same clarity when it comes to Abbey Road One.
> 
> Thanks and Merry Christmas!


Can’t say I follow your workflow, but I typically use AROOF as the foundation and fill in what it can’t do or doesn’t have with BBCSO instruments.


----------



## YK47

Brasart said:


> I would also recommend using simple EQs and/or saturation, as we often forget how efficient it can be.
> Here's the man himself showing what can become of BBCSO's bones with a bit of EQ matching from a bigger brass library:




No level matching? Nah thanks...


----------



## YK47

The issue with BBCSO is that it was marketed as hoping to be a universal one stop shop for all orchestral needs, even an educational tool, but also great for TV composing. 

I have seen them playing live too at Proms and other occasions so I know what they can sound like. 

The dynamic layers are more important on something like the BBCSO than the AROOF considering it is marketed as a universal one stop shop for all needs, and even educational purposes. And since it was a colaboration with the BBC in their OWN studio they had more than enough time to go into deep deep deep deep sampling. It should have been THE ONE that everyone would want. So... when there are things missing (dynamics, even a few special instruments)... People will moan!! Do not forget half of this thread 230 or so pages were created before the product even got released.. so everyone wanted to love it. There is no malicious intent from anyone here. And I am a SF fanboy!


----------



## yiph2

I agree with most of your points, however, it is marketed as a "universal starting point", not "universal library". But I agree that there should be more dynamic layers


----------



## Rory

Trash Panda said:


> I typically use AROOF as the foundation and fill in what it can’t do or doesn’t have with BBCSO instruments.



Thanks, this helps me understand how people are using Abbey Road One and BBC Pro together. So Abbey Road One and its built-in orchestration is used to write the music, and BBC Pro is used to add emphasis/leads/solos where required. Is that right?


----------



## YK47

Rory said:


> Thanks, this helps me understand how people are using Abbey Road One and BBC Pro together. So Abbey Road One and its built-in orchestration is used to write the music, and BBC Pro is used to add emphasis/leads/solos where required. Is that right?



Well.. sketching can work in different ways. I am not an expert expert expert but I will give it a go. Most of the times it depends on how much time you have to achieve what you need/want etc. 

You can sketch with Albion ONE or AROOF for example, and then go back to it, and dissect the parts. Say you take your Strings Ensemble and dissect it into its different parts, Violins A, Violins B, Celli, Basses etc. 

Other times you just have less time to work on something so you just use the ensemble patches and colour them with something else on top so they are not so obvious sounding what they are etc. Usually you are pairing something like for example Albion ONE, or CSS which have a nice foundation and add something else on top like for example SCS or SStS. The results are great that way.


----------



## Cinebient

So after first day/night it has some quirks and especially when there is one critic for me its the crossfading between dynamic layers and also vibrato in some cases where I clearly here a jump in timbre and/or volume which give me always that "doh´" moment. 
It also could use more round robins in some patches and some other little things about the workflow could be much better since there is so much place on the GUI, even on a 13" laptop.
However, in general its my favourite Spitfire library so far from all I bought from them and I even consider the pro upgrade. I just wish I could download just a few mics and extras and not the whole 600 GB and half of the mics i never ever will use. 
But like I said, so far I think it was a good buy, especially for the sale upgrade price -€49 since I own the free Discovery. One of their best deals so far for me.
Of course Spitfire is evil and knows I want the leaders and close mics (and maybe the spills). 
Mmhhh, this or upgrade my Studio Orchestra all to Pro. I wonder if the Studio Brass and Woodwinds Pro would give me all the missing parts here for a bit less.


----------



## Markrs

Cinebient said:


> So after first day/night it has some quirks and especially when there is one critic for me its the crossfading between dynamic layers and also vibrato in some cases where I clearly here a jump in timbre and/or volume which give me always that "doh´" moment.
> It also could use more round robins in some patches and some other little things about the workflow could be much better since there is so much place on the GUI, even on a 13" laptop.
> However, in general its my favourite Spitfire library so far from all I bought from them and I even consider the pro upgrade. I just wish I could download just a few mics and extras and not the whole 600 GB and half of the mics i never ever will use.
> But like I said, so far I think it was a good buy, especially for the sale upgrade price -€49 since I own the free Discovery. One of their best deals so far for me.
> Of course Spitfire is evil and knows I want the leaders and close mics (and maybe the spills).
> Mmhhh, this or upgrade my Studio Orchestra all to Pro. I wonder if the Studio Brass and Woodwinds Pro would give me all the missing parts here for a bit less.


Same issue for me, upgrade from Core to Pro or use the money elsewhere. I know I will buy it as I was the Leaders and the extra instruments as well as a few mic positions. For the money outside of the EastWest Hollywood Orchestra this is probably the best priced full orchestra (with large array of articulations) you can get.


----------



## Cinebient

Lol, yes. I do not planned to bought anything and here we go. Upgraded from Best Service TO Complete 1 to The Orchestra Complete 2 (but was also not a bad deal for about € 68 here plus a gift on top to choose), then upgraded Spitfire BBC Discovery to Core and now it goes on. 
The problem is also 600 GB might be a bit too much for my current SSD, so I have to see if I can delete some old stuff since I def. not will buy another SSD in the coming months. 
Loading times are super fast for me, on Kontakt level actually and also CPU and RAM usage is much better as I thought. Beside Kontakt and the Spitfire Player I also do not want to use another Player/Engine like Sine (I really get not warm with it and it is very unstable on my M1 machine).
But €330 is also a lot money here in bad times where I am just a "serious" hobbyist and do not have to earn a cent with these tools. Its just for my very own pleasure. 
At the same time creating music to calm down and experiment with all these wonderful tools is more important than ever in these times and had to cancel my holidays so I have some money left which was planned elsewhere. 
Maybe I do it like last year, wait until the last hour, when I am also drunken enough, so my buy finger is very loose. Next day I might rethink it but than its too late anyway.


----------



## Cinebient

I forgot to ask. Are there any good resources for Logic´s Articulations settings for BBC Core?


----------



## dzilizzi

If you have access to a spare HDD, you could download the whole thing and then only transfer the samples you want. I know somewhere in this thread they talk about removing excess mic positions. Well, you don't officially remove them, just the samples.


----------



## Markrs

dzilizzi said:


> If you have access to a spare HDD, you could download the whole thing and then only transfer the samples you want. I know somewhere in this thread they talk about removing excess mic positions. Well, you don't officially remove them, just the samples.


That is my plan, as I only have 1 2TB NVMe drive and EW HOD and BBCSO Pro would take up a large proportion of it. I will need to get another 2TB NVMe drive soon, but hoping to hold out a bit longer as in the long game prices will come down.


----------



## Trash Panda

Rory said:


> Thanks, this helps me understand how people are using Abbey Road One and BBC Pro together. So Abbey Road One and its built-in orchestration is used to write the music, and BBC Pro is used to add emphasis/leads/solos where required. Is that right?


That’s how I’ve been using it, but take that as the process of a very green rookie who only started doing this orchestral sample thing since June of this year.


----------



## Dr.BrainyPopsin

so guys as newbie in the area, if you had a chance to start over with some cash and a lot of hopes what library would you get ?


----------



## Fleer

BBCSO Core. And upgrade to Pro next.


----------



## Everratic

Dr.BrainyPopsin said:


> so guys as newbie in the area, if you had a chance to start over with some cash and a lot of hopes what library would you get ?


I would get bbcso core and fill in the gaps with a huge 8DIO purchase during one of their major sales. On BF, one of my friends got the childrens choir, century brass, intimate woodwinds, and artisan brass for around $298.


----------



## Dr.BrainyPopsin

Everratic said:


> I would get bbcso core and fill in the gaps with a huge 8DIO purchase during one of their major sales. On BF, one of my friends got the childrens choir, century brass, intimate woodwinds, and artisan brass for around $298.


so pro is a no choice for you


----------



## Cinebient

I watched now again some demos and all the walkthroughs about the mics and leaders and I think it might be worth the upgrade alone for a few of them, doh´.
Still thinking about this for some days. I doubt it will get down in price more. 
As i understand they also might add more to it in the future.
I thought about their solo strings but then I think I have more agile and versatile ones like Bohemian Cello, Violin (and I guess I will also get the Viola then), Emotional Cello, Viola and Violin and the Joshua Bell Violin.
So then I thought about their high praised Chamber Strings, but not sure if they fits in any of what I want to do. 
Completing my Studio Orchestra to pro creeps in again......
But at the end the idea to ditch that all and if there is anything I indeed might upgrade BBC to pro.
Just playing with the Core I realise that it the ONE orchestra I have which blends just perfect with all its sections as no other I used yet and also it seems to blend very well with a lot of my other tools.
Then all the mics are way to much but I have even more in the HZS and I love to play with it for some sound design and I bet these will work nice together more so then.
I also really like what I hear from the string leaders which of course could not replace dedicated solo strings but since I am covered here anyway I would prefer them to have on top instead of another solo strings or small sections (like chamber strings).
I have a bad feeling I fall into the trap within the next days. So please say that Pro doesn't give me enough compared to Core  
I just like the idea for a very versatile one stop orchestra which will not cost me 1000+ and is easy to use. 
Not sure what I tell my wife.......


----------



## Dr.BrainyPopsin

Cinebient said:


> I watched now again some demos and all the walkthroughs about the mics and leaders and I think it might be worth the upgrade alone for a few of them, doh´.
> Still thinking about this for some days. I doubt it will get down in price more.
> As i understand they also might add more to it in the future.
> I thought about their solo strings but then I think I have more agile and versatile ones like Bohemian Cello, Violin (and I guess I will also get the Viola then), Emotional Cello, Viola and Violin and the Joshua Bell Violin.
> So then I thought about their high praised Chamber Strings, but not sure if they fits in any of what I want to do.
> Completing my Studio Orchestra to pro creeps in again......
> But at the end the idea to ditch that all and if there is anything I indeed might upgrade BBC to pro.
> Just playing with the Core I realise that it the ONE orchestra I have which blends just perfect with all its sections as no other I used yet and also it seems to blend very well with a lot of my other tools.
> Then all the mics are way to much but I have even more in the HZS and I love to play with it for some sound design and I bet these will work nice together more so then.
> I also really like what I hear from the string leaders which of course could not replace dedicated solo strings but since I am covered here anyway I would prefer them to have on top instead of another solo strings or small sections (like chamber strings).
> I have a bad feeling I fall into the trap within the next days. So please say that Pro doesn't give me enough compared to Core
> I just like the idea for a very versatile one stop orchestra which will not cost me 1000+ and is easy to use.
> Not sure what I tell my wife.......


say you have been kidnapped, you are at the Core of a vast conspiracy and if you buy pro say that these thugs were Pros lol


----------



## Bluemount Score

Cinebient said:


> I have a bad feeling I fall into the trap within the next days. So please say that Pro doesn't give me enough compared to Core
> I just like the idea for a very versatile one stop orchestra which will not cost me 1000+ and is easy to use.


I've never really used Core because I pre-ordered BBCSO for I think $595 last year, there was only Pro back then. But I wouldn't go back (sorry to tell you that!)

The mics are the main selling point of it. If you want to upgrade to Pro, ask yourself if you want to handle those because they are confusing at first (partly still are for me). If you are the typ of person who wants or likes fiddling around with that AND have the SSD space, go for it. The leaders and other content are a nice (rather big) add on which do work very well in context.

Also buy it if you think a black GUI is prettier than a grey one (important).

And maybe take a break from checking the sample talk forum after the upgrade, in favor of yourself and your wife


----------



## CT

Cinebient said:


> I forgot to ask. Are there any good resources for Logic´s Articulations settings for BBC Core?



You mean an articulation set for BBCSO? I can send you mine.


----------



## mybadmemory

Mike T said:


> You mean an articulation set for BBCSO? I can send you mine.


Would also be very interested! 😍


----------



## Michael Antrum

Cinebient said:


> I just like the idea for a very versatile one stop orchestra which will not cost me 1000+ and is easy to use.
> Not sure what I tell my wife.......



I've always found it better to ask for forgiveness rather than permission.....


----------



## jamie8

Mike T said:


> You mean an articulation set for BBCSO? I can send you mine.


yes pleas that would be wonderful if you would


----------



## Dr.BrainyPopsin

Mike T said:


> You mean an articulation set for BBCSO? I can send you mine.


what is that? lol sorry I am a newbie


----------



## Cinebient

So it took me a (really full) glass of red wine and 2L of beer but I just upgraded to pro. So, the year is done for me.....hopefully.
No, I swear I will buy no other sample library or synth plug-in anymore this year.
I just played with HZS again and for the lack of dynamic layers in some patches I use midi cc´s to blend different mic options and I thought that might work in BBC PRO as well.
Maybe I regret that tomorrow but what do I care about tomorrow now, lol.


----------



## Fleer

Welcome to the club, Cinebient. Don’t drink and download.


----------



## jbuhler

Cinebient said:


> I forgot to ask. Are there any good resources for Logic´s Articulations settings for BBC Core?


I don't have BBCSO, but I like Babylon Waves Articulation Sets in general. They have the advantage of being reasonably consistent across libraries, at least for nine articulations (long, legato, marcato, tremolo, spiccato, staccato, short, pizz, minor 2nd trill, major 2nd trill). 








Articulation templates for Logic, Cubase, Digital Performer , Studio One and Cakewalk


We design professional articulation presets for all major DAWs. Available formats: Logic Articulation Sets, Cubase Expression Maps, MOTU Digital Performer Articulation Maps, Presonus Sound Variations and Cakewalk Articulation Maps.




www.babylonwaves.com





They save a lot of time, especially since the articulation sets editor is very badly designed.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

jbuhler said:


> I don't have BBCSO, but I like Babylon Waves Articulation Sets in general. They have the advantage of being reasonably consistent across libraries, at least for nine articulations (long, legato, marcato, tremolo, spiccato, staccato, short, pizz, minor 2nd trill, major 2nd trill).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Articulation templates for Logic, Cubase, Digital Performer , Studio One and Cakewalk
> 
> 
> We design professional articulation presets for all major DAWs. Available formats: Logic Articulation Sets, Cubase Expression Maps, MOTU Digital Performer Articulation Maps, Presonus Sound Variations and Cakewalk Articulation Maps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.babylonwaves.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They save a lot of time, especially since the articulation sets editor is very badly designed.


Be warned though - a lot of the sets have remote switches in random orders and generally I've found I've had to rework a number of them. Good place to start though I suppose, but building your own really is the best to ensure it works for you and your workflow.


----------



## jbuhler

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Be warned though - a lot of the sets have remote switches in random orders and generally I've found I've had to rework a number of them. Good place to start though I suppose, but building your own really is the best to ensure it works for you and your workflow.


I don't know how they are for BBCSO, but they work well for most of my other libraries. I do reserve more keys than they do and normalize my sets to my own scheme (so I have a dedicated switch for harmonics, for instance, and such). But the big thing is that it's much easier to go in and redefine what you need than to type everything into that godawful articulation editor.


----------



## Markrs

I decided to BBCSO Pro. I ummed and ahhed (for those that don't know it is an english pharse, for thinking about something a lot, weighting up the pros and cons) about it for some time. I know I don't need it right now and that a 40% deal will come up on it again, worse case scenario next xmas sale. But at the current price it sounds a very strong orchestra to get for the money and it gives me something other orchestras don't which is a more classical than holloywood sound.

The only niggle i have is I know I would have been fine with Core for some time to come and for me that is the stellar buy if you got Discovery for free. However I don't have any leaders/soloist in any other library, the extra instuments are very nice to have and I want to experiement more with mic positions.

Now will all this expense I really need to get on with using these libraries!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

jbuhler said:


> I don't know how they are for BBCSO, but they work well for most of my other libraries. I do reserve more keys than they do and normalize my sets to my own scheme (so I have a dedicated switch for harmonics, for instance, and such). But the big thing is that it's much easier to go in and redefine what you need than to type everything into that godawful articulation editor.



In some cases, yes that is easier. For other maps, I’ve had to redo them from scratch because of how bad the map was. For the price and upgrade price, I expected better.

For BBCSO I use the ones from the BBCSO Cubase template (though had to fix some things there as well).

I’m still contemplating building a better interface for EM that spits out the right XML. Maybe this coming week.


----------



## CT

Am I maybe misunderstanding what you're all talking about? It sounds a bit more complicated/potentially problematic than what I did, which was simply tell Logic which keyswitches BBCSO by default uses for which articulations.


----------



## jbuhler

Mike T said:


> Am I maybe misunderstanding what you're all talking about? It sounds a bit more complicated/potentially problematic than what I did, which was simply tell Logic which keyswitches BBCSO by default uses for which articulations.


You can follow the scheme of the library or not. But one advantage of setting up a consistent system of articulation sets in Logic is to get the articulation IDs to map across instruments and libraries. So that a spiccato in one instrument will be recognized as a spiccato if you move the midi to another instrument. Then too you can set it up so that whenever you press C-2 for instance that you always get the basic long from any library you are using. 

You can set these things up yourself—they aren't hard—but they are time consuming and it helps if you follow some sort of system rather than just inputting them in the order the instrument gives (again so Articulation IDs are preserved across instruments and libraries). Babylon Waves is loosely modeled on SF UACC assignments as far as I can tell. At least a lot of their Articulation IDs coincide with the SF UACC assignments even for non SF instruments. Some of the Babylon sets are better than others, and some of them are incomplete, though fewer now that they have their little multiscript program. The assignments of the triggers after the first nine notes is also not at all consistent. But the Articulation IDs are more consistent.


----------



## mallux

Markrs said:


> I decided to BBCSO Pro. [...]


Me too, for much the same reasons. Downloaded the whole thing last night, and looking forward to exploring it over the coming days/weeks/years. I don’t do this for a living so have no way to recoup the cost, except in enjoyment and personal growth. My focus is on learning about orchestration and composition, not writing film scores or anything like that. I’m way too old to get into that game, according to Mr Henson 

My decision process was this... didn’t buy anything on Black Friday, except for one month’s Composer Cloud subscription... to force myself to explore what else was out there. And while it was fun playing with choirs and massive drums and so on, I didn’t really write anything. The palette was too big. And I still found myself coming back to BBCSO every day, like a familiar old pair of slippers.

So I’m going to concentrate on that for now; use it as if it’s a real orchestra with all its strengths and limitations, and see where that takes me over the next year. Could I have done that with Core? Probably. But to me it makes sense to get the best version of the tool I can get. Trying to orchestrate around key missing instruments like the Cor Anglais is just not very realistic.

One thing I could do with is some advice on how to use all the mics, before I randomly start moving all the faders up and down. I saw Paul’s intro to mic positions on YT... any other good resources / best practices out there?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Markrs said:


> I decided to BBCSO Pro. I ummed and ahhed (for those that don't know it is an english pharse, for thinking about something a lot, weighting up the pros and cons) about it for some time. I know I don't need it right now and that a 40% deal will come up on it again, worse case scenario next xmas sale. But at the current price it sounds a very strong orchestra to get for the money and it gives me something other orchestras don't which is a more classical than holloywood sound.
> 
> The only niggle i have is I know I would have been fine with Core for some time to come and for me that is the stellar buy if you got Discovery for free. However I don't have any leaders/soloist in any other library, the extra instuments are very nice to have and I want to experiement more with mic positions.
> 
> Now will all this expense I really need to get on with using these libraries!


Got this back in May myself
And since I am only a hobbyist composer, I should have waited until this sale
Kicked myself when I realised I paid: £928 for the library and the limited edition drive 

Hey ho, at least I own it now. I guess I can umm and ahh over my misgivings now


----------



## Markrs

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Got this back in May myself
> And since I am only a hobbyist composer, I should have waited until this sale
> Kicked myself when I realised I paid: £928 for the library and the limited edition drive
> 
> Hey ho, at least I own it now. I guess I can umm and ahh over my misgivings now


ouch! that is the risk with sales, on the positive you have gained 6 months of using it!


----------



## mybadmemory

Now what might this 360 experience be? 🤔


----------



## Dr.BrainyPopsin

mybadmemory said:


> Now what might this 360 experience be? 🤔


I guess we will all see them going round and round lol


----------



## Theladur

It's written below the video:
"Immerse yourself in a 360° view of the BBC Symphony Orchestra performing 'In The Hall of The Mountain King' by Edvard Grieg, recorded at Maida Vale Studios, London." i.e. 360° video. I wonder if it was recorded with 360° sound (ambisonic) as well...


----------



## Rory

Theladur said:


> It's written below the video:
> "Immerse yourself in a 360° view of the BBC Symphony Orchestra performing 'In The Hall of The Mountain King' by Edvard Grieg, recorded at Maida Vale Studios, London." i.e. 360° video. I wonder if it was recorded with 360° sound (ambisonic) as well...



Recently, @christianhenson published a video about binaural sound, and a few days ago Pianobook released a piano library based on samples that he recorded with Neumann's binaural microphone. Henson has also published a video about the library. There's a link to his video, and some info on the mike, in this post and following: https://vi-control.net/community/th...oir-binaural-grand-piano.103480/#post-4726440

I think that a binaural recording should work at least as well as an ambisonic recording for 360° video unless it's necessary to place/pinpoint individual sounds in three dimensional space, as it is, for example, in a video game. In any event, the binaural Neumann mike that Henson was using is of considerably higher quality than the off-the-shelf ambisonic mikes sold by Sennheiser (AMBEO VR) and RØDE (NT-SF1). I've recorded with both the Neumann and the Sennheiser (photos are in the post just above the linked post). I'd love to own the Neumann. The Sennheiser is a relatively inexpensive way to make an ambisonic recording if one is needed.

That said, it's possible that the people who made this film decided to exploit the strengths of ambisonic recording, and recorded ambisonically with high-end microphones. I'll have my headphones ready either way


----------



## Pokestir

Can we all agree that the BBCSO Glock is just fantastic...


----------



## Michael Antrum

Pokestir said:


> Can we all agree that the BBCSO Glock is just fantastic...


The legatos are crap though....


----------



## muziksculp

Are the BBCSO performing Grieg using the BBCSO Pro version of the library ?


----------



## Bluemount Score

Pokestir said:


> Can we all agree that the BBCSO Glock is just fantastic...


Using it at this exact moment!


----------



## Pokestir

Michael Antrum said:


> The legatos are crap though....


Haven't thought of that.. you got me there!!


----------



## Cinebient

Now I had the time to play a bit with BBC Pro (just the woodwinds are not ready yet).
I thought the leaders are interesting and I really love the string leaders, especially the cello leader stands out, followed by the bass for me, the violins are not bad too.
Also here the additional mics really shines if I want to use just the leaders and it really works well and I could use that even as solo strings library on top. There might be better options and i also already own a few of them but I actually really like the leaders a lot and the performance/extended legato patches are really nice to use with Logic´s arp and for live playing without too much midi editing.
I was not sure first if it was worth the upgrade to pro but it is for me.
Will it be the end of all orchestra for me, no. I could need things like smart chord split, auto divisi and some more and I have an eye on the MSS from Audiobro f.e. but otherwise this is a great package which is not the best in all areas but the sum of its parts makes it a wonderful tool with a great sound.
I would say the leaders are a bit like the Discovery of solo strings, where things like Spitfire solo strings are the Core and things like Bohemian, Joshua Bell and the Emotional are the pro.
Maybe they are even closer to a core like thing. 
Now I am curious about this mystic update. Muted brass, updated legatos....it just can get better.
One thing is a bit odd, there are some weird release samples and inconsistent levels/dynamics, especially with legatos. I hope that get solved.


----------



## Lambchops

Lambchops said:


> In my 30 odd years as a professional musician, I must say one thing I never thought I’d see was people hurling unpleasantries and insults at each other over a disagreement about the upper dynamic layers of a brass sample library.
> It’s Christmas Day.
> Hope everyone’s having a nice time and enjoying their presents


After saying this, I stumbled across some incredible cat fights on the VSL forum... 
Search for "An appreciation of VSL" . I'm learning things I never guessed existed about the samples and virtual instrument community!


----------



## styledelk

Kind of thankful I can't even get past the VSL homepage. Feels like I'm stuck in 1996.


----------



## Billy05

what is the price to upgrade BBC pro from core BBC?


----------



## Markrs

Billy05 said:


> what is the price to upgrade BBC pro from core BBC?


$330


----------



## Creoin

New BBCSO Pro demo from Andy Blaney (Nonet) including more new features from the upcoming update:


----------



## mallux

I can't see anything _obviously_ new in that video... am I missing something?


----------



## mrflood

mallux said:


> I can't see anything _obviously_ new in that video... am I missing something?


Legatos (Extended) added to a few of the instruments. There may be other things I am missing...


----------



## FinGael

Creoin said:


> New BBCSO Pro demo from Andy Blaney (Nonet) including more new features from the upcoming update:




"Oh. It's Mr Blaney again. One of the most expensive secrets of Britain. Hide your wallets. NOW."


----------



## mallux

mrflood said:


> Legatos (Extended) added to a few of the instruments. There may be other things I am missing...


All the articulations look exactly the same as the version I have open on my desktop (1.1.9). The video shows extended legatos for Flute, Horn and Oboe, but these are already available.
Still, it's a nice demo. Always nice to see a master at work.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Creoin said:


> New BBCSO Pro demo from Andy Blaney (Nonet) including more new features from the upcoming update:




Another great example of extended legato patches. And it seems like the horn has been reworked - you can see how high the modulation gets without the horn getting overly buzzy. Much smoother.


----------



## jaketanner

Can anyone that have pro please confirm this vibrato issue for me...maybe I'm hearing things. So the leader Vin1 vibrato seems to be on/off...while the vin 1 ensemble patch has a medium range in the middle...totally off, then medium then full on...Anyone? Thanks.


----------



## CT

The soloist vibrato is indeed more of a switch, whereas sections fade. Crossfading isn't as conspicuous with sections as it is with solo instruments.


----------



## jaketanner

Mike T said:


> The soloist vibrato is indeed more of a switch, whereas sections fade. Crossfading isn't as conspicuous with sections as it is with solo instruments.


Ok so I’m not nuts. Lol. Because what I like to do is layer the leader and sections, and play around with vibrato off on one of them. Seems too much when both are on. But if the section can be lessened, all the better.


----------



## mallux

There was a recent discussion in the Spitfire Winter Sale thread (pages 2-3) about vibrato (in the context of SCS, but I daresay the same applies here). PT said that cross fade to vibrato in _legato_ patches was particularly tricky, but should be smoother in the long articulations. Engaging vibrato slowly on Vn1 leader Long does sound a little bit smoother than the legato to me (although still a switch rather than multiple levels).


----------



## Hooo

Are there any users of my Reaper version of the One Orchestra template for BBCSO in this thread? I'm preparing an update for the template ready for the new BBCSO update, so if anyone has any suggestions or feedback, now would be a great time.

There's also an important bug fix, which if you'd like to fix now in your own version, what you need to do is:

Set all print stem tracks, as well as the mix monitor & mastering monitor to "record: output, multichannel", not "record: output, multichannel latency compensated" (right click the record arm button - the red button - to get to this menu on each track)






The "Latency compensated" option is meant for when you're recording instruments, but here would cause printed tracks would be dragged back a few miliseconds from their intended position - not ideal when you're writing to picture! Apologies to anyone who had issues with this 😬

If there are no objections, I'm also going to add a new idea to the BBCSO template which I've found very convenient: I've grouped the two sets of reverb tracks & added tracks in the TCP to control the level of each. (You can of course still adjust them individually too)

Hopefully you can see what I mean in this hilariously bad quality gif:


----------



## Markrs

Hooo said:


> Are there any users of my Reaper version of the One Orchestra template for BBCSO in this thread? I'm preparing an update for the template ready for the new BBCSO update, so if anyone has any suggestions or feedback, now would be a great time.
> 
> There's also an important bug fix, which if you'd like to fix now in your own version, what you need to do is:
> 
> Set all print stem tracks, as well as the mix monitor & mastering monitor to "record: output, multichannel", not "record: output, multichannel latency compensated" (right click the record arm button - the red button - to get to this menu on each track)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "Latency compensated" option is meant for when you're recording instruments, but here would cause printed tracks would be dragged back a few miliseconds from their intended position - not ideal when you're writing to picture! Apologies to anyone who had issues with this 😬
> 
> If there are no objections, I'm also going to add a new idea to the BBCSO template which I've found very convenient: I've grouped the two sets of reverb tracks & added tracks in the TCP to control the level of each. (You can of course still adjust them individually too)
> 
> Hopefully you can see what I mean in this hilariously bad quality gif:


Thank you for this. I use reaper and got the template a couple fo days ago but not yet got around to useing it!


----------



## Markrs

Hooo said:


> Are there any users of my Reaper version of the One Orchestra template for BBCSO in this thread? I'm preparing an update for the template ready for the new BBCSO update, so if anyone has any suggestions or feedback, now would be a great time.
> 
> There's also an important bug fix, which if you'd like to fix now in your own version, what you need to do is:
> 
> Set all print stem tracks, as well as the mix monitor & mastering monitor to "record: output, multichannel", not "record: output, multichannel latency compensated" (right click the record arm button - the red button - to get to this menu on each track)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "Latency compensated" option is meant for when you're recording instruments, but here would cause printed tracks would be dragged back a few miliseconds from their intended position - not ideal when you're writing to picture! Apologies to anyone who had issues with this 😬
> 
> If there are no objections, I'm also going to add a new idea to the BBCSO template which I've found very convenient: I've grouped the two sets of reverb tracks & added tracks in the TCP to control the level of each. (You can of course still adjust them individually too)
> 
> Hopefully you can see what I mean in this hilariously bad quality gif:


Does this template have all the extra instruments in Pro as I noticed only the Core version was on the BBCSO templates website.

Edit:
Just to answe my own question, you replied on a YouTube comment that for Pro we would need to adde the extra instruments in and save as a new template.


----------



## Hooo

Markrs said:


> Does this template have all the extra instruments in Pro as I noticed only the Core version was on the BBCSO templates website.
> 
> Edit:
> Just to answe my own question, you replied on a YouTube comment that for Pro we would need to adde the extra instruments in and save as a new template.


Yeah, I'm still only on Core, sorry! When I do finish the update/the new version comes out, I'll probably send Spitfire a Pro version as well, then at least the tracks for those handful of extra instruments will be there and ready to go so people can add them in.


----------



## Markrs

Hooo said:


> Yeah, I'm still only on Core, sorry! When I do finish the update/the new version comes out, I'll probably send Spitfire a Pro version as well, then at least the tracks for those handful of extra instruments will be there and ready to go so people can add them in.


No need to be sorry (I only recently got seduced to upgrade by the sale price), I massively appreciate the work you have done in this. This is much more than a basic template, you have done a fantastic job, and saved hours or work!


----------



## yiph2

Just saw this video in my email:


----------



## Hooo

yiph2 said:


> Just saw this video in my email:



I got the Core to Pro version:


----------



## mallux

Hooo said:


> I got the Core to Pro version:



Ooh nice... a few things I noticed in that video, now that I have a real Pro to compare it to:
- Paul is using v1.2.0 (current released version is v1.1.9)
- An entirely new instrument! - Cimbasso
- Bass Clarinet and Cor Anglais have gained "Legato (Extended)" - currently both have "Legato" only


----------



## muziksculp

What's the difference between Legato-Extended, and Legato ?


----------



## Bluemount Score

muziksculp said:


> What's the difference between Legato-Extended, and Legato ?


Legato Extended is basically Performance Legato, therefore is very playable and has a spiccato / short note layer at the sample start at high velocity. Legato is just... well, normal legato


----------



## mallux

muziksculp said:


> What's the difference between Legato-Extended, and Legato ?


Extra behaviours like automatically switching to a staccato sample if you play a short note; similarly for runs and trills, it switches to an actual recorded sample if it thinks you're trying to play them. There is a regular Legato articulation for people who don't like them, but I think it's kinda cool.

Edit: I can't actually find any documentary evidence for the trills thing, maybe I dreamed it. Wouldn't be the first time.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Bluemount Score , and @mallux.

Thank You for the feedback.


----------



## Cinebient

I like the performance legatos, especially for the leaders (pro only).
Not the best example but this happens if you just use the extended legato with Logic´s arp and some random values (starts after some seconds of noodling without the arp enabled).
bbc-extended-legato-leaders-violins-1-and-celli


----------



## khollister

Is it just me, or are the legatos for the string leaders a little tricky to play? It appears that in order to get a "normal" attack to the initial note in a phrase (or each note in a non-slurred phrase), you have to play with very low velocity. Otherwise you get a spic attack, which is fine if you want to play very short spiccatos but useless for slightly longer short notes as when the sustained layer comes in, it creates a kind of delayed riccochet effect.

Seems they needed to program this with low velocity=normal attack, med velocity=staccato attack with sustain and high velocity=spiccato attack (perhaps with no sustain.

Or am I missing something here?


----------



## mybadmemory

Cinebient said:


> I like the performance legatos, especially for the leaders (pro only).
> Not the best example but this happens if you just use the extended legato with Logic´s arp and some random values (starts after some seconds of noodling without the arp enabled).
> bbc-extended-legato-leaders-violins-1-and-celli


Don’t do that. I want to upgrade to pro now...


----------



## omc_29

khollister said:


> Is it just me, or are the legatos for the string leaders a little tricky to play? It appears that in order to get a "normal" attack to the initial note in a phrase (or each note in a non-slurred phrase), you have to play with very low velocity. Otherwise you get a spic attack, which is fine if you want to play very short spiccatos but useless for slightly longer short notes as when the sustained layer comes in, it creates a kind of delayed riccochet effect.
> 
> Seems they needed to program this with low velocity=normal attack, med velocity=staccato attack with sustain and high velocity=spiccato attack (perhaps with no sustain.
> 
> Or am I missing something here?



Nope its not just you. I dont like the Strings Legatos, most likely because of this. Some of the normal legatos (not the extended) in the Brass and Woods are better to play on slower lines than the extended version on the same instruments. I wish they had also included this option in the strings as well.


----------



## Geomir

khollister said:


> Is it just me, or are the legatos for the string leaders a little tricky to play? It appears that in order to get a "normal" attack to the initial note in a phrase (or each note in a non-slurred phrase), you have to play with very low velocity. Otherwise you get a spic attack, which is fine if you want to play very short spiccatos but useless for slightly longer short notes as when the sustained layer comes in, it creates a kind of delayed riccochet effect.
> 
> Seems they needed to program this with low velocity=normal attack, med velocity=staccato attack with sustain and high velocity=spiccato attack (perhaps with no sustain.
> 
> Or am I missing something here?


Believe me you are not alone...


----------



## Cinebient

Indeed it can be tricky and i get often these attacks when i do not want them (also still some inconsistent release and dynamics here). In general i like the extended legatos since i have better if i need really a solo performance but in a best case i wished there would be a „normal“ legato patch to choose AND the extended because sometimes indeed it force you to do things you did not thought about (well, sonetimes in a good way).
Was there not also a planned update for the string legatos beside the new extended for WW and new brass intruments/articulations?
However, still the cello leader is great for me but will take sone time to handle like i want. The violin 1 leader is not that great and i prefer the leader 2. Bass is still better but the cello leader stands out from these. You also really need the closer mics to let them shine.
I wonder how i can set my own velocity switch value like its standard normally.
I have to use a midiFX otherwise to do so. 
That are the not so perfect things. They give you just not enough editing options but its not the world end.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Cinebient said:


> I like the performance legatos, especially for the leaders (pro only).
> Not the best example but this happens if you just use the extended legato with Logic´s arp and some random values (starts after some seconds of noodling without the arp enabled).
> bbc-extended-legato-leaders-violins-1-and-celli


How are you already playing with Extended Legato for these?
I don't have extended patches for violins or celli...

And I was sure the update is not out yet either...
Am I missing something?


----------



## CT

The string legatos aren't labeled as extended, they just are.


----------



## dylanmixer

Correct. The string patches are extended only. I believe with the update we should be getting natural legato (hopefully).


----------



## CT

I haven't heard anything about that being the case, but it would be nice.


----------



## Toecutter

muziksculp said:


> What's the difference between Legato-Extended, and Legato ?



If you see the ‘Legato (extended)’ techniques available in anything other than Strings, this means that the patch will have playable ‘short’ notes built-in which respond to the way you play. If you play a short snappy note on your keyboard, a short note will trigger. The Strings have this programmed automatically, even without the (extended) tag.

As well as this, the extended patches also often have another type of transition. For example, the Flute Legato (extended) technique will have playable runs recorded, which will trigger based on the speed of playing. Strings have portamento and slurred transitions.


----------



## John R Wilson

Mike T said:


> I haven't heard anything about that being the case, but it would be nice.


Would be very nice.


----------



## muziksculp

Toecutter said:


> If you see the ‘Legato (extended)’ techniques available in anything other than Strings, this means that the patch will have playable ‘short’ notes built-in which respond to the way you play. If you play a short snappy note on your keyboard, a short note will trigger. The Strings have this programmed automatically, even without the (extended) tag.
> 
> As well as this, the extended patches also often have another type of transition. For example, the Flute Legato (extended) technique will have playable runs recorded, which will trigger based on the speed of playing. Strings have portamento and slurred transitions.


Thanks.


----------



## chlady

Cinebient said:


> So far I really like it but indeed its not quite M1 ready sadly and there are problems under Rosetta as well.
> I hope Spitfire works also on a M1 native version of their player. For now I have to live with it.
> F.e. if I load Logic as native ARM the first instance of BBC doesn't make any sound. Loading a second instance then works but the controls exposed in the Touch Bar is mixed up.
> If I use Logic under Rosetta, then it all seems to work fine but as with some other plug-ins the Spitfire player adds a lot latency if GUI is open and even miss some midi notes if played fast. It seems a GUI issue other plug-ins (and almost all iOS AUv3 inside Logic suffers from).
> maybe I was to fast to want to lay down Kontakt, which works fine in any version. But I hate the tiny GUIs.
> So depending on what I want I have to use it under Logic Rosetta and close the GUI if I want to play in midi or I have to use native ARM Logic which brings trouble with first instance and GUI control/exposed parameters.


Is that with Rosetta 2 ?


----------



## Cinebient

chlady said:


> Is that with Rosetta 2 ?


Yes, when I close the GUI all is fine. I have this also with several other plug-ins. So its seems a GUI problem here. 
Loading Logic not under Rosetta, in native version, then it is works mostly fine but in this mode I cannot use some other plug-ins. 
However, it works and it still runs fine. I just played 6 instances from BBC Pro where each had 4-5 mics enabled. Played just fine....all tracks armed. And this is a 13" laptop making no noise


----------



## harmaes

Cinebient said:


> Yes, when I close the GUI all is fine. I have this also with several other plug-ins. So its seems a GUI problem here.
> Loading Logic not under Rosetta, in native version, then it is works mostly fine but in this mode I cannot use some other plug-ins.
> However, it works and it still runs fine. I just played 6 instances from BBC Pro where each had 4-5 mics enabled. Played just fine....all tracks armed. And this is a 13" laptop making no noise


I'm also experiencing comparable issues with BBCSO in Logic on a MBP M1.

I noticed that the 16x and 25x output versions do load normally when instantiated as a first instance in a Logic project.
Strangely loading BBCSO in Unify it loads completely fine. So there are certainly some coding issues with the SA plugins.

IMO it's more then just a GUI issue where the first instance of the BBCSO plugin stereo version doesn't seem to connect it's inputs and outputs correctly?

Somehow in my case Spitfire Audio plugins don't load correctly at all when running Logic under Rosetta 2. The samples seem to load from my SSD but the plugin is never instantiated and it's not visible on the track.

@Cinebient : did you report this as a bug with SA? 

BTW, the LABS and Originals plugins all work fine in stereo mode as first instance.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I've just finished downloading BBCSO Pro, and I'm just working my way though it. Overall, I'm liking it quite a bit, butI'm seeing a few issues just working through it.

With the Flute leader extended legato using vibrato, there is a significant volume change from 50-51% vibrato. Is anyone else getting this, or is it just me ? 

It's awkward enough that the vibrato is effectively an on/off switch, particularly for a leader instrument, but the volume bump makes it even worse.

Has this already been reported (as this thread is rather large to read through) or shall I report it as a glitch.

I hear there's a bit update coming too.....


----------



## Markrs

Michael Antrum said:


> I've just finished downloading BBCSO Pro, and I'm just working my way though it. Overall, I'm liking it quite a bit, butI'm seeing a few issues just working through it.
> 
> With the Flute leader extended legato using vibrato, there is a significant volume change from 50-51% vibrato. Is anyone else getting this, or is it just me ?
> 
> It's awkward enough that the vibrato is effectively an on/off switch, particularly for a leader instrument, but the volume bump makes it even worse.
> 
> Has this already been reported (as this thread is rather large to read through) or shall I report it as a glitch.
> 
> I hear there's a bit update coming too.....


As someone who works in Customer Experience/User Experience it is good when you have multiple customer reporting an issue. This might be different with sample libraries, but other people reporting the same thing does help with the prioritization of what to fix.


----------



## mybadmemory

Michael Antrum said:


> I've just finished downloading BBCSO Pro, and I'm just working my way though it. Overall, I'm liking it quite a bit, butI'm seeing a few issues just working through it.
> 
> With the Flute leader extended legato using vibrato, there is a significant volume change from 50-51% vibrato. Is anyone else getting this, or is it just me ?
> 
> It's awkward enough that the vibrato is effectively an on/off switch, particularly for a leader instrument, but the volume bump makes it even worse.
> 
> Has this already been reported (as this thread is rather large to read through) or shall I report it as a glitch.
> 
> I hear there's a bit update coming too.....


I think spitfire has said that crossfading to vibrato works better on full sections than on solo instruments, and that they therefore prefer the switch approach on those. Don’t remember if this was only on strings or on all sections. I haven’t noticed the volume difference between vibrato off/on myself.


----------



## paulthomson

Thats correct - thats why you'll notice many libraries don't even provide the option to xfade between non vib and vib. Especially on soloists. Its really hard to avoid hearing the sound of 2 instruments instead of one at the xfade point!

On all our standard longs though the xfade is smoother. You can sometimes get away with it on certain instruments in solo.

We've got the update coming soon in January - we run a huge battery of tests on updates before we send them out so the holiday has cut into the timeline a little.

EDIT - oh also - playing with Vib does increase the apparent volume especially on the flute, but on most other instruments as well. So its a balance between removing this real phenomenon and getting a nice even movement between the levels.

Personally - I tend to hide to transition from non to vib in a note change, when the transition itself sounds too exposed. 

But do report stuff, we're constantly looking at our libraries and tweaking / updating things!


----------



## Michael Antrum

Thanks for clarifying.

However, there is a much more significant volume bump on the extended legato than there is on the 'regular' legato.

I totally understand why there is the on/off nature of solo vibrato, it's just the volume bump makes it stick out even more. I'll report it.

I must admit though, I bought this library as a 'need to spend a few quid before the end of the tax year' impulse purchase, but I'm shocked at how good it is, particularly for the money spent.

I particularly like the templates provided, which for people like me who are time poor, are terrific. I literally downloaded the library, loaded up the template, and I'm off and away.....and did I mention how cohesive it sounds......

I wish this had been available years ago...


----------



## paulthomson

Thanks Michael - and thanks for the kind words! 

Same here re wishing it was available years ago - in 2006 to get a full orchestra playing in real time with my other crossover stuff I was using 9 outboard PCs!! And my studio looked more like an IT workstation..


----------



## Michael Antrum

paulthomson said:


> Thanks Michael - and thanks for the kind words!
> 
> Same here re wishing it was available years ago - in 2006 to get a full orchestra playing in real time with my other crossover stuff I was using 9 outboard PCs!! And my studio looked more like an IT workstation..


In my house, that would be grounds for a divorce......


----------



## mopsiflopsi

BBCSO Pro users, can you help me with something? I can't seem to get any sustain with string leader marcato patches, it's just a short attack very similar to spiccato (I can swear they are identical). Am I doing something wrong? Are they intended for layering only? Is there a setting somewhere that enables the tail?

EDIT: Ok I just figured it out. The plugin for some reason defaulted me back to Core, and it appears to play the spiccato patch from that mode when it can't find a short.


----------



## Toecutter

SF's been unusually quiet... the calm before the storm?


----------



## styledelk

It's like there was a series of holidays, sales, and a product release or something.


----------



## Markus Kohlprath

paulthomson said:


> Thanks Michael - and thanks for the kind words!
> 
> Same here re wishing it was available years ago - in 2006 to get a full orchestra playing in real time with my other crossover stuff I was using 9 outboard PCs!! And my studio looked more like an IT workstation..


The only thing that looks totally up to date is the beer bottle. Some things simply stand the test of time.
And btw. I got the BBCSO Core for 220,- which was irresistable and am pretty impressed by the sound as well. Totally unexpected impulse buy I'm really happy with.


----------



## muziksculp

Toecutter said:


> SF's been unusually quiet... the calm before the storm?


Yes, they have. They must be cooking something special for us.


----------



## madfloyd

Lockdown?


----------



## Brasart

madfloyd said:


> Lockdown?


Yeah the covid situation is looking quite dire in the UK, I hope the Spitfire team is able to stay safe and get some rest after the holiday craze, this will probably put some delay on their whole calendar again


----------



## Dr.BrainyPopsin

we are all engaged in ww race vs covid spreading


----------



## mussnig

Sorry if this has been asked before (didn't find anything with the search):

So the BBCSO Plugin can provide multiple stereo outputs (standard is 16). As far as I understand I can route different Mics to different outputs in the Pro edition. However, in the Core edition there is only Mix 1 and no choice of Mics. So do the multiple outputs have any functionality in this case? At first I thought that I can maybe route different articulations to different outputs (since articulation switching can also be done via MIDI Channel) but it seems that this is not the case. I also didn't find any option anywhere to route anything to another stereo output of the plugin.

So if the multiple outputs don't have any functionality in Core (as I assume at this point), would my performance improve if I set the plugin to only use 1 output instead of the standard 16?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

muziksculp said:


> Yes, they have. They must be cooking something special for us.


I can hear those brass mutes, as if they were coming around the corner now! It’s like when you are waiting for an Amazon delivery and the map shows them being in the next street 🤣


----------



## BennyHendel

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I can hear those brass mutes, as if they were coming around the corner now! It’s like when you are waiting for an Amazon delivery and the map shows them being in the next street 🤣


On my wishlist for BBCSO: Mutes and horn techniques (rips, falls, etc), Ensemble Patches, Zero delay mode for sketching, performance legato, less awkward attacks on string articulations across different velocities, and cuivre horns


----------



## yiph2

BennyHendel said:


> On my wishlist for BBCSO: Mutes and horn techniques (rips, falls, etc), Ensemble Patches, Zero delay mode for sketching, performance legato, less awkward attacks on string articulations across different velocities, and cuivre horns


Mutes are confirmed, and for zero delay mode, have you tried turning tighness?


----------



## muziksculp

Any idea what the update will bring as far as Strings are concerned ?


----------



## omc_29

BennyHendel said:


> On my wishlist for BBCSO: Mutes and horn techniques (rips, falls, etc), Ensemble Patches, Zero delay mode for sketching, performance legato, less awkward attacks on string articulations across different velocities, and cuivre horns


Improvements to the string shorts and some improved editing of samples would be very nice. The V2 spic is not the best, I avoid using that one. Tightness decreases the latency of the shorts but to get it with no delay and turning the tightness all the way round sounds pretty bad. 

Having delays in the shorts is quite common on many libraries though. CSS has a delay on the shorts, its just that CSS is consistent and has been very well edited. BBCSO shorts are less consistent and not so well edited which can make the playability feel quite sloppy when played in live and when programmed in comparison to SCS and other Spitfire libraries.


----------



## omc_29

muziksculp said:


> Any idea what the update will bring as far as Strings are concerned ?


Updated legatos for the strings apparently.


----------



## antanasb

BennyHendel said:


> On my wishlist for BBCSO: Mutes and horn techniques (rips, falls, etc), Ensemble Patches, Zero delay mode for sketching, performance legato, less awkward attacks on string articulations across different velocities, and cuivre horns


Aren’t there Cuivre Horns already?? I think I have used them in one of my compositions lately in Core version?


----------



## muziksculp

omc_29 said:


> Updated legatos for the strings apparently.


So, that's it for the Strings ?


----------



## omc_29

muziksculp said:


> So, that's it for the Strings ?


I don't think anything else was specifically mentioned for the strings apart from updated legatos.

This was what was accidently put up below the list of articulations for BBCSO Core and Pro around Black Friday time:

35Gb of new and updated content
New muted brass techniques
New 'Extended' Legatos for a selection of Brass and Woodwind instruments
Updated legatos for Flute and Strings
Various bug fixes, tweaks and optimisations.


----------



## muk

BennyHendel said:


> and cuivre horns



Horns have a dedicated cuivré-patch already. Also, the regular legato- and sustain-patches crossfade to cuivré at a cc1-value around 60 (48% on the Spitfire player). How much more cuivré do you need?

For me it's exactly the opposite. I would wish for _less _cuivré in the horns. Let the cuivré in the legato and sustain patches start at cc1 = 115 or so. And thus give me more range for the normal playing. I don't know of a single orchestral piece that uses cuivré at mezzoforte. So I don't need it there in my legato patch.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

@paulthomson ... Wondering when the truck is going to arrive outside the house with the new content... Still saying 'number of stops away unknown' on the Map
...any thoughts 

I jest...

I know we Londoners have hit another Lockdown, so delays are understandable


----------



## Jotto

I hope they can fix the 2. violins. At least get rid of that attached horn


----------



## madfloyd

Jotto said:


> I hope they can fix the 2. violins. At least get rid of that attached horn


attached horn???


----------



## BennyHendel

omc_29 said:


> Improvements to the string shorts and some improved editing of samples would be very nice. The V2 spic is not the best, I avoid using that one. Tightness decreases the latency of the shorts but to get it with no delay and turning the tightness all the way round sounds pretty bad.
> 
> Having delays in the shorts is quite common on many libraries though. CSS has a delay on the shorts, its just that CSS is consistent and has been very well edited. BBCSO shorts are less consistent and not so well edited which can make the playability feel quite sloppy when played in live and when programmed in comparison to SCS and other Spitfire libraries.


For sketching it's really useful, and you can just change it back once you play it in. The tightness knob does absolutely nothing for me


----------



## Jotto

madfloyd said:


> attached horn???


Thats right. Try a G2 Legato


----------



## Sean

Jotto said:


> Thats right. Try a G2 Legato


I know the G2 on the Violin 2 sounds awful but it doesn't sound like there's a horn.


----------



## muziksculp

WOW ! Violins that can play a horn, now that's amazing !


----------



## Jotto

Sean said:


> I know the G2 on the Violin 2 sounds awful but it doesn't sound like there's a horn.





muziksculp said:


> WOW ! Violins that can play a horn, now that's amazi


----------



## CT

What am I missing here? The G2 sounds normal to me.


----------



## muziksculp

Mike T said:


> What am I missing here? The G2 sounds normal to me.


The first 4 notes, and last note of this phrase sound more like Horns than Strings.


----------



## CT

Ok then. Sounds like a standard open G string to me.


----------



## muziksculp

Actually, I wonder how they managed to do that ?


----------



## CT

Do what?


----------



## muziksculp

Mike T said:


> Do what?


You don't hear anything odd in that short audio clip ?


----------



## CT

No, not sonically, at least.

You guys do realize that the bottom G on a violin can only be played on an open string, and therefore can't be played with (real) vibrato, right?


----------



## Sean

Mike T said:


> No, not sonically, at least.
> 
> You guys do realize that the bottom G on a violin can only be played on an open string, and therefore can't be played with (real) vibrato, right?


If you compare the G of the violin 1 vs the violin 2 its very abrasive.


----------



## Trash Panda

muziksculp said:


> WOW ! Violins that can play a horn, now that's amazing !


Move over flautando. 2021 is the year of hornissimo!


----------



## el-bo

Cinebient said:


> I like the performance legatos, especially for the leaders (pro only).
> Not the best example but this happens if you just use the extended legato with Logic´s arp and some random values (starts after some seconds of noodling without the arp enabled).
> bbc-extended-legato-leaders-violins-1-and-celli


What an excellent idea!


----------



## el-bo

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I can hear those brass mutes, as if they were coming around the corner now! It’s like when you are waiting for an Amazon delivery and the map shows them being in the next street 🤣


Then you check again five minutes later and the map shows they're ten streets away :(


----------



## styledelk

That sounds like a low G to me. It’s pretty full bodied.


----------



## mrflood

Yeah, sounds like a violin open note to me too. I don't play violin myself, but played in a group with a violinist for many years...


----------



## CT

View attachment G String for VI-Control.mp3


Well, I dunno. Here's a bunch of G strings.


----------



## muziksculp

Mike T said:


> View attachment G String for VI-Control.mp3
> 
> 
> Well, I dunno. Here's a bunch of G strings.


OK. This sounds like a normal G String Sound, but the demo posted earlier on the previous page sounds totally different, not sure what's happening there, It surely sounded very odd to my ears.


----------



## styledelk

I think people cry synthy and brass really easily sometimes and it’s because there’s truthfully a lot of actual overlap sonically. I hear brass in string quartets on records all the time.


----------



## Sean

I think the G on the violin 2 is very abrasive and sticks out when in a mix compared to the violin 1. Obviously there is no horn playing, I'm still not sure what that was about, but compare it to the violin 1 and tell me it doesn't sound worse.


----------



## CT

muziksculp said:


> OK. This sounds like a normal G String Sound, but the demo posted earlier on the previous page sounds totally different, not sure what's happening there, It surely sounded very odd to my ears.


It's because it's being used to very mechanically play a completely un-idiomatic part. Of course it sounds ridiculous.



Sean said:


> I think the G on the violin 2 is very abrasive and sticks out when in a mix compared to the violin 1. Obviously there is no horn playing, I'm still not sure what that was about, but compare it to the violin 1 and tell me it doesn't sound worse.


Well does it stick out among the examples I posted? That's something that happens in the real world anyway. Have to be careful orchestrating open string notes.


----------



## antanasb

I have seen spitfires ads for the templates. Is the update imminent (today, release thursday)?


----------



## mussnig

antanasb said:


> I have seen spitfires ads for the templates. Is the update imminent (today, release thursday)?


I think it's done when it's done (and at least I would also prefer it this way).

They already announced it during BF and at that point they thought it would probably be released 1-2 weeks after BF (I think Paul Thomson mentioned it on this forum). Also, they have already released two new demos by Andy Blaney, where he clearly uses the updated version (I assume that maybe the second demo, which was released during the last days of December, was because of the ongoing sale and because they knew that the update wouldn't be released before early 2021).

I think Christian Henson also replied somewhere on YouTube (maybe 1-2 weeks ago but I might be totally wrong about this) that they are doing extensive testing before the release of the update but I had the impression that it will be released very soon.


----------



## antanasb

mussnig said:


> I think it's done when it's done (and at least I would also prefer it this way).
> 
> They already announced it during BF and at that point they thought it would probably be released 1-2 weeks after BF (I think Paul Thomson mentioned it on this forum). Also, they have already released two new demos by Andy Blaney, where he clearly uses the updated version (I assume that maybe the second demo, which was released during the last days of December, was because of the ongoing sale and because they knew that the update wouldn't be released before early 2021).
> 
> I think Christian Henson also replied somewhere on YouTube (maybe 1-2 weeks ago but I might be totally wrong about this) that they are doing extensive testing before the release of the update but I had the impression that it will be released very soon.



I hope so... I really want that fixed horn, extended legatos for trombones and more woodwinds and muted brass.. Updated string legatos is a bonus!

Would work on some current orders nicely...


----------



## mussnig

antanasb said:


> I hope so... I really want that fixed horn, extended legatos for trombones and more woodwinds and muted brass.. Updated string legatos is a bonus!
> 
> Would work on some current orders nicely...


I just found the comment by Christian Henson on YouTube (YouTube says it was posted 1 week ago, but it was probably 10 days ago): "We've got a lovely update coming soon."


----------



## antanasb

mussnig said:


> I just found the comment by Christian Henson on YouTube (YouTube says it was posted 1 week ago, but it was probably 10 days ago): "We've got a lovely update coming soon."



But really, I wish BBC had a mark tree....


----------



## CT

antanasb said:


> But really, I wish BBC had a mark tree....


So do I. It drives me nuts when that is the ONE thing I'm shoehorning in from some other source.


----------



## mussnig

antanasb said:


> But really, I wish BBC had a mark tree....


If they still have access to Maida Vale this shouldn't be too hard to do.

Also, if I remember correctly, not too long ago, someone from Spitfire (probably Christian Henson) was mentioning somewhere (probably in a video) the idea of recording a piano at Maida Vale - but I didn't have the impression that there were any current plans to do this ...


----------



## antanasb

mussnig said:


> If they still have access to Maida Vale this shouldn't be too hard to do.
> 
> Also, if I remember correctly, not too long ago, someone from Spitfire (probably Christian Henson) was mentioning somewhere (probably in a video) the idea of recording a piano at Maida Vale - but I didn't have the impression that there were any current plans to do this ...



Piano would be really nice.. But I would rather take mark tree samples and some additional dynamic layers for horns, esp FFF staccato...


----------



## dzilizzi

mussnig said:


> If they still have access to Maida Vale this shouldn't be too hard to do.
> 
> Also, if I remember correctly, not too long ago, someone from Spitfire (probably Christian Henson) was mentioning somewhere (probably in a video) the idea of recording a piano at Maida Vale - but I didn't have the impression that there were any current plans to do this ...


I know the COVID shutdowns messed up a lot of plans for additional recordings. Have to wonder if there is even still the recording setup there. Though I guess Christian has proved pianos can be recorded anywhere. And I do remember Paul saying something to the effect that they had a lot of additional recordings that didn't make it into the initial BBCSO. Not sure how much is usable though.

Edit: I just checked. Looks like it should still be usable as a studio until next year at least. I was seeing a lot of talk about turning it into flats and historical building status, so I thought they already moved out.


----------



## antanasb

dzilizzi said:


> I know the COVID shutdowns messed up a lot of plans for additional recordings. Have to wonder if there is even still the recording setup there. Though I guess Christian has proved pianos can be recorded anywhere. And I do remember Paul saying something to the effect that they had a lot of additional recordings that didn't make it into the initial BBCSO. Not sure how much is usable though.



Maybe something will emerge as LABS or Originals?


----------



## dzilizzi

antanasb said:


> Maybe something will emerge as LABS or Originals?


That would be good too. Stuff that isn't good enough for a paid product could definitely end up in LABS. Though probably with a lot of manipulation. I'm guessing the straight recordings require payment of royalties if used in a paid product.


----------



## antanasb

dzilizzi said:


> That would be good too. Stuff that isn't good enough for a paid product could definitely end up in LABS. Though probably with a lot of manipulation. I'm guessing the straight recordings require payment of royalties if used in a paid product.



A spec. Blooper library from all of the failed takes!


----------



## Fleer

dzilizzi said:


> I know the COVID shutdowns messed up a lot of plans for additional recordings. Have to wonder if there is even still the recording setup there. Though I guess Christian has proved pianos can be recorded anywhere. And I do remember Paul saying something to the effect that they had a lot of additional recordings that didn't make it into the initial BBCSO. Not sure how much is usable though.
> 
> Edit: I just checked. Looks like it should still be usable as a studio until next year at least. I was seeing a lot of talk about turning it into flats and historical building status, so I thought they already moved out.


Pleased to read that. Let’s hope Spitfire can still use it for as long as they need to.


----------



## Cormast

Anyone have issues with volume levels of the BBCSO instances after re-loading a project in cubase ?


----------



## antanasb

Fleer said:


> Pleased to read that. Let’s hope Spitfire can still use it for as long as they need to.



I hope the stars will align, and they will decide to actually record the additional dynamics for the solo horn, and the FFF brass staccati..

And a mark tree...

Then it would really be awesome library...


----------



## Chris-01

Cormast said:


> Anyone have issues with volume levels of the BBCSO instances after re-loading a project in cubase ?


I am, although I'm very new to this game! The level jump is not inconsiderable, having opened an existing project, the stereo O/P was heavily into the red, not as I had left it, I assumed I'd knocked a fader or executed a key command that did something so I readjusted the levels. Next time I opened the project, it was very low. My project only uses BBCSO instruments, R4 for a bit of reverb and bx-masterdesk just tickling the mix on the O/P, they were the two plugins I treated myself to at Christmas so was trying them out in an existing project.

My system is Mac 10.14
Cubase Pro 10.5
BBCSO Core

My hunch is it's cubase, because the individual track levels (only 5 of them in this case) didn't look abnormally loud or quite from memory, suggesting it's at the summing stage.

I am using the Core stereo template, from the 'Page'


----------



## SupremeFist

Make sure you don't have a spare fader that sends midi cc7 when you unintentionally knock it with your elbow.


----------



## Chris-01

Thanks SupremeFist, I can't see anything assigned to CC7! I had to look that one up as the only CC's I've assigned are 11, 1 and whatever vibrato is.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

What do you all think of the reverb available within BBCSO? 

Do you turn it all the way down and use a third party reverb?

Anyone use Logic's Space Designer?

Thank you.


----------



## mybadmemory

ChromeCrescendo said:


> What do you all think of the reverb available within BBCSO?
> Do you turn it all the way down and use a third party reverb?
> 
> Thank you.


All the way down + Valhalla Room


----------



## MusiquedeReve

mybadmemory said:


> All the way down + Valhalla Room


WOW did not expect a response that quickly
Thank you


----------



## Brasart

ChromeCrescendo said:


> What do you all think of the reverb available within BBCSO?
> 
> Do you turn it all the way down and use a third party reverb?
> 
> Anyone use Logic's Space Designer?
> 
> Thank you.


I don't use the BBCSO reverb, but then again I almost never use reverbs integrated with libraries, my go-to are Pro-R and Seventh Heaven


----------



## antanasb

ChromeCrescendo said:


> What do you all think of the reverb available within BBCSO?
> 
> Do you turn it all the way down and use a third party reverb?
> 
> Anyone use Logic's Space Designer?
> 
> Thank you.


I like the BBC reverb on Brass mainly -- horns especially. Give them a bigger "space" and bolder sound, which I then finish off with one instance of R2 for everything as a send for "glue". Also -- for high percussion (triangle, glockenspiel).


----------



## Bluemount Score

ChromeCrescendo said:


> What do you all think of the reverb available within BBCSO?
> 
> Do you turn it all the way down and use a third party reverb?
> 
> Anyone use Logic's Space Designer?
> 
> Thank you.


I also turn it down and use a different reverb. Valhalla Room or Seventh Heaven


----------



## Fleer

FabFilter Pro-R.


----------



## DovesGoWest

ChromeCrescendo said:


> What do you all think of the reverb available within BBCSO?
> 
> Do you turn it all the way down and use a third party reverb?
> 
> Anyone use Logic's Space Designer?
> 
> Thank you.


Turned off and then use a combination of Seventh Heaven to create a room verb and Valhalla Room to create a hall verb


----------



## Billy05

Anyone know if an impulse response is available? From the same room where was BBCSO recorded. Maida Vale Studios
Thank you


----------



## MusiquedeReve

Billy05 said:


> Anyone know if an impulse response is available? From the same room where was BBCSO recorded. Maida Vale Studios
> Thank you



Oh excellent question - I was wondering the BBCSO's reverb function was the actual room reverb of Maida Vale


----------



## Theladur

Inside each of the BBCSO folders (each section) is a file called "BBCSO_MV1_IR1.spitfire".
So, it may be possible that Spitfire Audio recorded impulse response(s) at Maida Vale.

If so, it would be great if these would be offered in a useful format at some point, for better blending of external instruments with the BBCSO.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Brasart said:


> I don't use the BBCSO reverb, but then again I almost never use reverbs integrated with libraries, my go-to are Pro-R and Seventh Heaven


Man, I wish I could get a good sound from Pro-R. I've been trying the demo, but just can't find any good settings for orchestral stuff. What presets are you finding are a good starting point?


----------



## Brasart

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Man, I wish I could get a good sound from Pro-R. I've been trying the demo, but just can't find any good settings for orchestral stuff. What presets are you finding are a good starting point?


For orchestral I usually start from either the default setting or one of the Concert Hall preset, my go-to is Concert Hall Amsterdam Classic, and from there I always adjust at least Distance, Stereo Width, the total time decay and the pre-delay.
With those controls I find Pro-R to be quite useful to create depth and space using a unique instance for each section of the orchestra!


----------



## Billy05

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Man, I wish I could get a good sound from Pro-R. I've been trying the demo, but just can't find any good settings for orchestral stuff. What presets are you finding are a good starting point?




I think all reverbs go with the orchestra. You can put several.


----------



## Billy05

If anyone finds a convolution reverb, or an impulse response from Maida Vale Studios (same room as spitfire bbcso) thank you


----------



## Markrs

I couldn't find anything when looking for a Maida Vale IR. However someone has requested that spitfire produce and release an IR for Maida Vale.









BBC SO scoring stage dedicated impulse response


Hi all. I am a happy owner of BBCSO Core and so very impressed with the work Spitfire Audio has done in making this library. The depth and detail that was captured is stunning, making not only the ...




spitfireaudio.zendesk.com


----------



## Nate Johnson

So I finally opened up BBCSO Core the other day (purchased on BF). Not surprised in the least, but I'm definitely annoyed with myself for not going Pro. I *always* prefer close mics over room/ambient - Core is a little too wet for my tastes. However, it's making its way into pieces here and there. I started a piece trying to use it standalone, but quickly found myself replacing various bits with other instruments in my collection that are a bit drier.

So now the great debate: when it goes on sale again, do I upgrade? IIRC, it'll be around $330 (40% off). But the real hesitation is about drive space. Half a terabyte. ooof.

I find myself realizing for the first time, that I've got a single, full orchestra with control over individual instruments (even more so if I go to Pro) - its got me starting to think about writing some pieces using only this orchestra. I mean, obviously we can all build our own custom orchestras from libraries from all over, but there's something that just feels more satisfying about having it 'under one roof.'


----------



## Brasart

Nate Johnson said:


> So I finally opened up BBCSO Core the other day (purchased on BF). Not surprised in the least, but I'm definitely annoyed with myself for not going Pro. I *always* prefer close mics over room/ambient - Core is a little too wet for my tastes. However, it's making its way into pieces here and there. I started a piece trying to use it standalone, but quickly found myself replacing various bits with other instruments in my collection that are a bit drier.
> 
> So now the great debate: when it goes on sale again, do I upgrade? IIRC, it'll be around $330 (40% off). But the real hesitation is about drive space. Half a terabyte. ooof.
> 
> I find myself realizing for the first time, that I've got a single, full orchestra with control over individual instruments (even more so if I go to Pro) - its got me starting to think about writing some pieces using only this orchestra. I mean, obviously we can all build our own custom orchestras from libraries from all over, but there's something that just feels more satisfying about having it 'under one roof.'


You can delete any mic you want to free up space on your disk, I haven't done it myself but some users in this thread have done exactly that.
It can be especially useful with the last page mics (AtmosF, AtmosR) which IIRC are made for 5.1 mixing, and I've never used them myself


----------



## khollister

Brasart said:


> You can delete any mic you want to free up space on your disk, I haven't done it myself but some users in this thread have done exactly that.
> It can be especially useful with the last page mics (AtmosF, AtmosR) which IIRC are made for 5.1 mixing, and I've never used them myself


Yup, I removed the Atmos, spill and mono mics. If I recall correctly, it cut the size almost in half. I may thin it out more after additional seat time.









How can I remove specific microphones from the BBC SO?


The BBC Symphony Orchestra gives you a large array of different microphone positions to choose from. Having access to these additional microphone signals can give you a great amount of control, how...




spitfireaudio.zendesk.com


----------



## Alex Fraser

Nate Johnson said:


> I find myself realizing for the first time, that I've got a single, full orchestra with control over individual instruments (even more so if I go to Pro) - its got me starting to think about writing some pieces using only this orchestra. I mean, obviously we can all build our own custom orchestras from libraries from all over, but there's something that just feels more satisfying about having it 'under one roof.'


Yeah, I'd think that would be my first goal - to write some music using only the BBCSO, seeing as that's what the product USP is.

Actually - I see it as a bit of a test. No more excuses or distractions. Here's a full orchestra of pro musicians recorded in a great room. Can you actually do something with it?
(Not directed at you, Nate!)


----------



## antanasb

Nate Johnson said:


> So I finally opened up BBCSO Core the other day (purchased on BF). Not surprised in the least, but I'm definitely annoyed with myself for not going Pro. I *always* prefer close mics over room/ambient - Core is a little too wet for my tastes. However, it's making its way into pieces here and there. I started a piece trying to use it standalone, but quickly found myself replacing various bits with other instruments in my collection that are a bit drier.
> 
> So now the great debate: when it goes on sale again, do I upgrade? IIRC, it'll be around $330 (40% off). But the real hesitation is about drive space. Half a terabyte. ooof.
> 
> I find myself realizing for the first time, that I've got a single, full orchestra with control over individual instruments (even more so if I go to Pro) - its got me starting to think about writing some pieces using only this orchestra. I mean, obviously we can all build our own custom orchestras from libraries from all over, but there's something that just feels more satisfying about having it 'under one roof.'


From my extremely limited experience, if you come to it for an orchestral sound and treat it as an entity, instead of separate sections, the sound is perfectly fine, I think... Really.. 

I have found that most of the times, if the sound is not correct and lacking, the sound itself is actually fine. It is the orchestration at fault...

I love it as a learning tool guiding towards a better orchestration... Of course, YMMV..

Attaching a piece I have done only with BBC Core as a challenge for myself. Unfortunately there are some mp3 conversion artifacts, especially audible when violins 1 play loud and high..

P.S. I am not saying Pro is useless or not worth it. Just that you can make wonderful music with cohesive Core sound already without any afterthought and any more purchases...


----------



## Begfred

The 1.2.0 update as arrived!


----------



## antanasb

Begfred said:


> The 1.2.0 update as arrived!



No way!!


----------



## mussnig

Begfred said:


> The 1.2.0 update as arrived!


Does the download show up in your Spitfire App? In my app, nothing so far (I just checked 5 mins. ago) ...


----------



## Begfred




----------



## khollister

mussnig said:


> Does the download show up in your Spitfire App? In my app, nothing so far (I just checked 5 mins. ago) ...


same here


----------



## dcoscina

khollister said:


> same here


There is an email that indicates you will receive notice when the update is ready....


----------



## Begfred

mussnig said:


> Does the download show up in your Spitfire App? In my app, nothing so far (I just checked 5 mins. ago) ...


Not yet... ''We are excited to bring you the latest free update to BBC Symphony Orchestra Professional, which you will be receiving over the next 24 hours.

Update 1.2.0​
~36GB of new content
New Muted Brass techniques
New Cimbasso
Extended Legato Update
Various bug fixes
''


----------



## khollister

Begfred said:


> Not yet... ''We are excited to bring you the latest free update to BBC Symphony Orchestra Professional, which you will be receiving over the next 24 hours.
> 
> ​


Oops - skipped right over that in my excitement


----------



## dcoscina

The walk thru sounds great. I love all of the extended legatos. Great job Spitfire. The solo horn extended legato sounds gorgeous. The winds with the extended legatos sound excellent too. 

Props Spitfire on this update. Cannot wait until I can download.


----------



## Begfred

Those Extended woodwinds legatos will be welcome!
It was a weakeness and woodwinds legatos are the most important (for me).


----------



## Rory

Spitfire has started a thread about the update: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/bbc-symphony-orchestra-—-new-update.104295/#post-4740295


----------



## Sean

Core is ~1.8GB for those who were wondering


----------



## muk

The download is not ready for me yet. From Paul's walkthrough it looks like the extended legato patch for the solo horn does *not* include the cuivré layer. That would be very, very welcome. Props if that's really the case.


----------



## Nate Johnson

antanasb said:


> From my extremely limited experience, if you come to it for an orchestral sound and treat it as an entity, instead of separate sections, the sound is perfectly fine, I think... Really..
> 
> I have found that most of the times, if the sound is not correct and lacking, the sound itself is actually fine. It is the orchestration at fault...
> 
> I love it as a learning tool guiding towards a better orchestration... Of course, YMMV..
> 
> Attaching a piece I have done only with BBC Core as a challenge for myself. Unfortunately there are some mp3 conversion artifacts, especially audible when violins 1 play loud and high..
> 
> P.S. I am not saying Pro is useless or not worth it. Just that you can make wonderful music with cohesive Core sound already without any afterthought and any more purchases...


Wow, this is awesome! Even on the crappy speakers I'm listening to at work. Excited to listen again back at home. So yes, of course you're totally right in that Core can 'get you there'. I still think I want more control. Plus there's more instruments + articulations. My work is more esoteric than most, so the more detail I have access to, the better. I like the idea of ditching the files for the mics I don't want. I'll definitely wait until it comes up on sale again though, so in the meantime, I'll challenge myself to work with just Core (now with the new update!)


----------



## Nate Johnson

Alex Fraser said:


> Yeah, I'd think that would be my first goal - to write some music using only the BBCSO, seeing as that's what the product USP is.
> 
> Actually - I see it as a bit of a test. No more excuses or distractions. Here's a full orchestra of pro musicians recorded in a great room. Can you actually do something with it?
> (Not directed at you, Nate!)


EXACTLY. It's really kind of resetting my brain to think in terms of 'well maybe with this kind of focus, I can do an actual mock-up that can turn into hiring a real orchestra to record.' I've ALWAYS wanted to do that. Look for another thread on that topic I'll be starting soon


----------



## muziksculp

Thanks Spitfire Audio.​Update 1.2.0​
~36GB of new content
New Muted Brass techniques
New Cimbasso
Extended Legato Update
Various bug fixes


----------



## Fleer

Yeah baby!


----------



## sostenuto

Soooo close at Promo. Now $485. Cool Update ! Only 10 months to BlkFri tho .......... 

_Was this Update knowledge out ther earlier ?  _


----------



## Fleer

Man, that updated flute!
(and I’m a flautist)


----------



## Fleer

sostenuto said:


> _Was this Update knowledge out ther earlier ?  _


Leaked about a month ago.


----------



## styledelk

"What, no legato on the muted horn?"

Kidding.


----------



## Fleer

And that cello legato, sheer silk 👍


----------



## Michael Antrum

I bought BBCSO Core on an impulse in the sale last year. I very quickly realised I liked it a lot and upgraded to Pro. 

Paul's Youtube demo of the update sounds like all the niggles I'd found (and more besides) have been addressed, though I'm sure a grumpy old bunch of ingrates like us will find some more to moan about.

For the money BBCSO is incredible value.....and it's just so cohesive.

If this had been out 5 years ago it would have saved me a small fortune.....


----------



## muziksculp

@Fleer,

Cool. Thanks for the positive feedback about the update 1.20 , I'm looking forward to install the update. Also looking forward to enjoy the new Cimbasso for the Pro version.

I checked the Spitfire Installer, so far I don't see ver 1.20 Update , maybe it will show up later today.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Brasart said:


> For orchestral I usually start from either the default setting or one of the Concert Hall preset, my go-to is Concert Hall Amsterdam Classic, and from there I always adjust at least Distance, Stereo Width, the total time decay and the pre-delay.
> With those controls I find Pro-R to be quite useful to create depth and space using a unique instance for each section of the orchestra!


Thanks for that! I tried that preset, and it's really good once tweaked. One thing I didn't like is how pro-R seems to "darken" the strings. However, I discovered how to reset the eq curves and start from scratch. I'm sold. Plus, it doesn't require a dongle, so that's another huge bonus. 7th Heaven is great (currently trying the demo), but I didn't like the fact I can only use it on one machine at a time.


----------



## Rory

Further on the above discussion...

Christian Henson talks about using FabFilter Pro-R at 19:40 of this video on mixing Albion, BBC SO and Abbey Road One. He calls Pro-R his "current favourite" reverb plugin for applying what he calls "splosh" or glue. He uses Pro-Q 3 earlier in the video.


----------



## Fleer

Thanks, Rory. I have to concur, FabFilter does wonders with orchestral. Best to get the creative bundle, especially if on sale.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Fleer said:


> Thanks, Rory. I have to concur, FabFilter does wonders with orchestral. Best to get the creative bundle, especially if on sale.


I was sucked into the FF vortex last year, I bought Q3, L2 and C2. They're arguably the most used plugins in my workflow. I think you are right, pro-R is a great choice, you can't go wrong.


----------



## José Herring

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I was sucked into the FF vortex last year, I bought Q3, L2 and C2. They're arguably the most used plugins in my workflow. I think you are right, pro-R is a great choice, you can't go wrong.


How are they on CPU? Can you use a fair amount of them without taxing the system?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

José Herring said:


> How are they on CPU? Can you use a fair amount of them without taxing the system?


Yes, I’m finding very low usage. Plus, there’s no latency, so you can use them during the composition process.

Try the demos!


----------



## Fleer

No probs here too. Also, they recently updated their plugins for even less cpu usage while making them M1 compatible.


----------



## andyhy

Now slowly downloading the BBCSO update. Location instructions for downloads are confusing me as I already have separate directories for Discover, Core and Professional. At the moment I'm downloading everything into the Pro parent folder and hoping that it will all end up in the right place when it unpacks. Like many I grew from Discover then up to Core and finally to Pro so inevitably I have Discover and Core folders that are just sitting there. Does anyone know if those can be deleted now I have upgraded to Pro? Maybe I don't need them anymore in which case I can recover much needed SSD space.


----------



## jaketanner

Hello all...so am I the only one that has miss-named articulations? One that I recently found is the viola. The STACCATO patch is actually supposed to be SPICCATO and vice versa...conversely, my harps are all miss named also, but deleting and reassigning fixes it...not so with the viola. So the Harp has mutes but are really sustains, medium is short and vice versa...all jumbled up. This is driving me insane.

Also, the tuning of these shorts, even the cello is incredibly off...like it's hitting two notes together or warped like it is being slowed down or sped up rather...man, so damn close here....need a few more updates @Spitfire Team  Overall excellent...but not quite there yet.


----------



## jaketanner

andyhy said:


> Now slowly downloading the BBCSO update


How is it you have it and I don't yet?


----------



## jaketanner

andyhy said:


> Does anyone know if those can be deleted now I have upgraded to Pro? Maybe I don't need them anymore in which case I can recover much needed SSD space.


I got rid of them...I ONLY have Pro installed. You can safely deleted them...In your account for Pro, you will see the ability to install Core and Discover, but if you just install Pro, that is fine.


----------



## andyhy

jaketanner said:


> I got rid of them...I ONLY have Pro installed. You can safely deleted them...In your account for Pro, you will see the ability to install Core and Discover, but if you just install Pro, that is fine.



Very helpful thank you


----------



## andyhy

I 


jaketanner said:


> How is it you have it and I don't yet?


I don't know. When I started the Spitfire App this morning Philippines time (GMT + 8hrs) the update notice was waiting there.


----------



## jaketanner

andyhy said:


> I
> 
> I don't know. When I started the Spitfire App this morning Philippines time (GMT + 8hrs) the update notice was waiting there.


They seem to be staggering the release maybe to not crash the download.


----------



## andyhy

jaketanner said:


> They seem to be staggering the release maybe to not crash the download.


Maybe. My download still has an estimated 6 hours to go. Fiber connection but sharing with two virtual school sons, the other reason it's slow. Competing with Minecraft now. Oh, almost forgot, downloading CSW also. That will be it then. Enough!


----------



## icecoolpool

antanasb said:


> From my extremely limited experience, if you come to it for an orchestral sound and treat it as an entity, instead of separate sections, the sound is perfectly fine, I think... Really..
> 
> I have found that most of the times, if the sound is not correct and lacking, the sound itself is actually fine. It is the orchestration at fault...
> 
> I love it as a learning tool guiding towards a better orchestration... Of course, YMMV..
> 
> Attaching a piece I have done only with BBC Core as a challenge for myself. Unfortunately there are some mp3 conversion artifacts, especially audible when violins 1 play loud and high..
> 
> P.S. I am not saying Pro is useless or not worth it. Just that you can make wonderful music with cohesive Core sound already without any afterthought and any more purchases...


Sounds great, fantastic track! Thanks for posting that.

I love the fact that, with the CORE version, they give you a "mix" rather than just a single mic such as a tree to work with. It sounds polished from the get go.

I think I´ll upgrade to PRO - at some point - just for the extra flexibility for blending with other sources (specifically drier sources) and the ability to "sculpt" my own mix, as it were.


----------



## jaketanner

andyhy said:


> Maybe. My download still has an estimated 6 hours to go. Fiber connection but sharing with two virtual school sons, the other reason it's slow. Competing with Minecraft now. Oh, almost forgot, downloading CSW also. That will be it then. Enough!


Just started my update. Finally there.


----------



## Markrs

No email or upgrade options for me yet, with luck hopefully it will come through by this evening (which is about 24hrs after release).


----------



## ridgero

Fleer said:


> No probs here too. Also, they recently updated their plugins for even less cpu usage while making them M1 compatible.


I haven’t seen any official statement from Spitfire Audio about M1 yet


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Has anyone else had a notice to redownload the Percussion?
Mine says I need to update Percussion and the update is 121GB, which is bigger than my current Percussion content 











Not sure what is going on there...


----------



## jaketanner

So they STILL have not addressed the god awful violin 2 Spiccato :( Damn...this is a substantial update, yet there still needs to be more.


----------



## antanasb

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Has anyone else had a notice to redownload the Percussion?
> Mine says I need to update Percussion and the update is 121GB, which is bigger than my current Percussion content
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what is going on there...


I think, that their app and the licensing database is not really talking with each other correctly. I have asked to reset all of the libraries, and after that, the download size for Albion One is displayed as 1.2 MB.

I think it has particularly hard time figuring out stuff correctly when there is something installed.


----------



## antanasb

jaketanner said:


> So they STILL have not addressed the god awful violin 2 Spiccato :( Damn...this is a substantial update, yet there still needs to be more.


But what's wrong with them?


----------



## AndyP

I still hope that they improve the readability in the interface. I can hardly recognize unactivated articulations by name ....
The update to 1.2 worked well and I'm excited about the Cimbasso. And the legatos ...


----------



## Brasart

jaketanner said:


> So they STILL have not addressed the god awful violin 2 Spiccato :( Damn...this is a substantial update, yet there still needs to be more.


I honestly love them because of their uniqueness, I really hope they stay in as is


----------



## antanasb

Brasart said:


> I honestly love them because of their uniqueness, I really hope they stay in as is


Honestly, I think that they are just really -- spiccato. Bouncing the bow of the strings...

If being picky, to me the V1 spiccato should be looked at actually first. The difference between staccato and spiccato for V1 is not that great.. (Based on how it sounds in Core).

But if you take a bigger perspective and just use them to get different sounds from the orchestra as an entity -- that is where, I think, BBC SO shines (e.g. combining the longer spiccato of V1 and shorter one of V2)... Paraphrasing you Brasart -- blending unique ingredients to get an individual flavor...


----------



## Zero&One

Have to agree with @jaketanner, they just sound like awful pizz.


----------



## Beans

Goodness, how long is Optimise meant to take for BBCSO Pro? I reinstalled the *entire *library after some issues and am now running the process.

I've got an i7-8700 and USB3 SSD (with a Windows Defender exclusion for the drive) that, by my math, will take another nine hours to wrap up for an Optimise. That's slower than the download itself was.

EDIT: Haha, well, never mind. After taking three hours to make only a small movement on the bar, it's now chugging along.


----------



## khollister

Zero&One said:


> Have to agree with @jaketanner, they just sound like awful pizz.


Respectfully disagree (ex-string player here). The violin 2 spiccatos sound like actual spiccatos to me. The spiccato articulation on violins 1 is more like a staccatissimo. I often find articulation names and perceptions frustrating in the MIDI orchestration world, legato being a great example. Many confuse legato with slurring - they are related sometimes but certainly not the same thing.

I don't think the vln2 spicc's suck, they just aren't played with the same technique as the identically labeled vln1 articulation.


----------



## madfloyd

Beans said:


> Goodness, how long is Optimise meant to take for BBCSO Pro? I reinstalled the *entire *library after some issues and am now running the process.
> 
> I've got an i7-8700 and USB3 SSD (with a Windows Defender exclusion for the drive) that, by my math, will take another nine hours to wrap up for an Optimise. That's slower than the download itself was.
> 
> EDIT: Haha, well, never mind. After taking three hours to make only a small movement on the bar, it's now chugging along.


They did warn you to do this overnight...


----------



## Beans

madfloyd said:


> They did warn you to do this overnight...


Well, I don't actually need that tower until probably tomorrow, but I was still chuckling a bit that the download went at a faster pace.


----------



## Zero&One

khollister said:


> I don't think the vln2 spicc's suck, they just aren't played with the same technique as the identically labeled vln1 articulation.


They don't sound like anything else in the library though?
My only option is to use staccatos, or my second section sounds like this.


----------



## jaketanner

Brasart said:


> I honestly love them because of their uniqueness, I really hope they stay in as is


unique is not the word I'd use..LOL on low velocities they sound like they're missing strings...LOL doesn't make sense that Vin 2 are the only strings to sound so different. It is clearly a mistake somewhere. Maybe blended in with Vin 1 would sound cool or even with the viola, but used on their ow they are weak.


----------



## khollister

Zero&One said:


> They don't sound like anything else in the library though?
> My only option is to use staccatos, or my second section sounds like this.


I'm not saying there is nothing amiss, just trying to clarify that the issue isn't the sampling, but that they used a technique that doesn't match the rest of the string sections with the same articulation name. And I don't think they sound anything like pizzicatos, BTW.


----------



## jaketanner

khollister said:


> I don't think the vln2 spicc's suck, they just aren't played with the same technique as the identically labeled vln1 articulation.


I wouldn't say suck...but not uniformed as the other strings...so something is off somewhere. The cello and violas don't have this issue, and I agree there is very little distinction between the shorts in Vin1...but vin 2 on lower velocities just sounds like it's maybe feathered...doesn't gel with the rest of the strings.


----------



## jaketanner

Zero&One said:


> They don't sound like anything else in the library though?
> My only option is to use staccatos, or my second section sounds like this.


That is exactly what I hear also...in the mix of things, you would need to bring them up very loud to be heard. Just weird.


----------



## Zero&One

khollister said:


> I'm not saying there is nothing amiss, just trying to clarify that the issue isn't the sampling, but that they used a technique that doesn't match the rest of the string sections with the same articulation name. And I don't think they sound anything like pizzicatos, BTW.


Well my pizzicato was a joke lol.
These just sound... well like Jake says, missing strings or they had lost the will to live. Unlike every other articulation. I’d rather use the pizzicato actually.
Clearly you must hear that above?


----------



## jaketanner

Beans said:


> Goodness, how long is Optimise meant to take for BBCSO Pro


I didn't get an optimize this time around. I just did the update, but I think I optimized for the previous version.


----------



## Brasart

jaketanner said:


> I wouldn't say suck...but not uniformed as the other strings...so something is off somewhere. The cello and violas don't have this issue, and I agree there is very little distinction between the shorts in Vin1...but vin 2 on lower velocities just sounds like it's maybe feathered...doesn't gel with the rest of the strings.


My take is that I have so many "regular" spicc/stacc strings sounds that I don't mind this one sounding a bit different, I find it can bring quite an interested flavor in a dense mix, but I totally understand if people don't enjoy it as I do


----------



## jaketanner

Brasart said:


> My take is that I have so many "regular" spicc/stacc strings sounds that I don't mind this one sounding a bit different, I find it can bring quite an interested flavor in a dense mix, but I totally understand if people don't enjoy it as I do


If you use bbc as a whole orchestra, then there is no choice but to use it. If you use that patch to add to other libraries I can see the use. But mixed in to the bbc strings is a bit different.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> If you use bbc as a whole orchestra, then there is no choice but to use it. If you use that patch to add to other libraries I can see the use. But mixed in to the bbc strings is a bit different.


You can use the Violins 2 Legato patch in place of it to get more staccatissimo type notes.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> You can use the Violins 2 Legato patch in place of it to get more staccatissimo type notes.


Those "performance" type patches are a bit trick to use in BBC...but I can also just add a bit of the staccato patch under it to give some body.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> Those "performance" type patches are a bit trick to use in BBC...but I can also just add a bit of the staccato patch under it to give some body.


Have you tried the new update? I'm finding the performance patches much better than they were previously. The playability of the strings legatos seems to have been really improved upon!


----------



## muziksculp

Still no update showing up for me.


----------



## styledelk

jaketanner said:


> If you use bbc as a whole orchestra, then there is no choice but to use it. If you use that patch to add to other libraries I can see the use. But mixed in to the bbc strings is a bit different.


You can just load another track of Violin 1 section, force different RR starting pattern, voila. If you want the uniformity, right?


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Have you tried the new update? I'm finding the performance patches much better than they were previously. The playability of the strings legatos seems to have been really improved upon!


I did. I truly wish they would have just given us a regular legato. Such a pain in the ass to get rid of that overlay. Just don’t understand why everyone else has legato and extended but not the largest section? Makes no sense to me. But yes, they are better legato and overall the update is great. Haven’t seen any significant RAM change at all though. But this can just be a pro tools issue.


----------



## jaketanner

styledelk said:


> You can just load another track of Violin 1 section, force different RR starting pattern, voila. If you want the uniformity, right?


True or transpose trick.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> I did. I truly wish they would have just given us a regular legato. Such a pain in the ass to get rid of that overlay. Just don’t understand why everyone else has legato and extended but not the largest section? Makes no sense to me. But yes, they are better legato and overall the update is great. Haven’t seen any significant RAM change at all though. But this can just be a pro tools issue.


I've only briefly played the new updated strings legatos and my first impressions are that they are much better than they were before this update. When playing overlapping notes I think the spic/stac overlay might now be getting disabled allowing for a more smooth, connected and more regular legato sound. I might be wrong on this though and need to play it some more but on first impressions and after a short play around it does sound like this might be the case.

I agree that it would have been nice to still have the regular legato without any overlays and the extended performance type legatos for the strings like you get in the Brass and Woodwinds. More options are always nice to have, but if the overlay are now getting disabled when playing overlapping notes then this does somewhat reduce the need for an extra/separate legato patch.


----------



## mallux

Not sure if it belongs here or the "where is my upgrade" thread, but it looks like Spitfire's BBCSO templates have been updated with the new instruments and articulations. Well, the Logic one has anyway, haven't tried the others -> https://www.spitfireaudiothepage.com/posts/pro-templates


----------



## mrflood

jaketanner said:


> I didn't get an optimize this time around. I just did the update, but I think I optimized for the previous version.


It didn't specifically present me with option of optimizing either, but if you click on the cog icon you should be able to select "Optimize" for each.


----------



## Ray Toler

mallux said:


> Not sure if it belongs here or the "where is my upgrade" thread, but it looks like Spitfire's BBCSO templates have been updated with the new instruments and articulations. Well, the Logic one has anyway, haven't tried the others -> https://www.spitfireaudiothepage.com/posts/pro-templates


The others will have to be updated by the person who created them. I'm waiting to submit my v1.0 version of the Digital Performer template until after I can include the new update content in it.


----------



## AndyP

Bass Flute does not load on my computer. There is no sound. Does anyone else have this? Everything else works fine.


----------



## Ray Toler

AndyP said:


> Bass Flute does not load on my computer. There is no sound. Does anyone else have this? Everything else works fine.


Which version of BBCSO do you have? It plays fine on my Pro installation, but I got a report from a person testing my template noting that the bass flute didn't play correctly on Core.


----------



## antanasb

Ray Toler said:


> Which version of BBCSO do you have? It plays fine on my Pro installation, but I got a report from a person testing my template noting that the bass flute didn't play correctly on Core.



There is no bass flute in Core....


----------



## AndyP

I have the Pro version. Updated to 1.2.


----------



## Ray Toler

antanasb said:


> There is no bass flute in Core....


Yes, but a bass flute part will translate to both Core and Discover (I believe by shifting down the normal Flute samples). Since no version information was provided in the post, I was seeing if it might be the same behavior my test user had.



AndyP said:


> I have the Pro version. Updated to 1.2.


I'm still waiting on my update, so can't verify that it works (or doesn't) for me. Sorry!


----------



## jaketanner

mrflood said:


> It didn't specifically present me with option of optimizing either, but if you click on the cog icon you should be able to select "Optimize" for each.


thank you, doing it now.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> I've only briefly played the new updated strings legatos and my first impressions are that they are much better than they were before this update. When playing overlapping notes I think the spic/stac overlay might now be getting disabled allowing for a more smooth, connected and more regular legato sound. I might be wrong on this though and need to play it some more but on first impressions and after a short play around it does sound like this might be the case.
> 
> I agree that it would have been nice to still have the regular legato without any overlays and the extended performance type legatos for the strings like you get in the Brass and Woodwinds. More options are always nice to have, but if the overlay are now getting disabled when playing overlapping notes then this does somewhat reduce the need for an extra/separate legato patch.


The overlay actually is much better tamed in this update. But that first note...for me is the cello legato, still isn't smooth. It's really the first notes (starting notes) of phrases that I have the issue with. Might need to replay a few notes with this new update.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> The overlay actually is much better tamed in this update. But that first note...for me is the cello legato, still isn't smooth. It's really the first notes (starting notes) of phrases that I have the issue with. Might need to replay a few notes with this new update.


Been playing around with it a bit more tonight and had noticed that same thing with the first notes but after playing some more noticed that if you play the first note of a phrase/part very softly and at a low velocity then you get quite a soft attack on it and what appears to be no overlay. Then you can play the next notes overlapped with higher velocities for the normal legato transitions.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Been playing around with it a bit more tonight and had noticed that same thing with the first notes but after playing some more noticed that if you play the first note of a phrase/part very softly and at a low velocity then you get quite a soft attack on it and what appears to be no overlay. Then you can play the next notes overlapped with higher velocities for the normal legato transitions.


I noticed that as well...was the same with the old version. The easiest thing to do I think would be to just set the sustain pedal ON in the automation of your DAW so that they never trigger...Then if you want then to, just automate the sustain. Seems to be the best course of action. I don't have my pedal connected at the moment, so I may just set all string legato with the pedal down in the automation lanes.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> I noticed that as well...was the same with the old version. The easiest thing to do I think would be to just set the sustain pedal ON in the automation of your DAW so that they never trigger...Then if you want then to, just automate the sustain. Seems to be the best course of action. I don't have my pedal connected at the moment, so I may just set all string legato with the pedal down in the automation lanes.


Think I'll probably do similar and use the sustain pedal when want some more smooth legato. It's a nice improvement. I was pretty much not using the strings legatos before but will probably use it now. I would say the BBCSO strings legatos are similar to SSS leg performance patches now in regards to playability, maybe better than this in some areas. It is still bumpy in places and struggles with certain phrases/lines that other libraries can do but its much more usable than it was before. Seems like most of the woods and brass legatos have been improved with the new leg programming as well  Nice to have the new brass mute articulations and the solo horn is much better now. Nice update overall.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Think I'll probably do similar and use the sustain pedal when want some more smooth legato. It's a nice improvement. I was pretty much not using the strings legatos before but will probably use it now. I would say the BBCSO strings legatos are similar to SSS leg performance patches now in regards to playability, maybe better than this in some areas. It is still bumpy in places and struggles with certain phrases/lines that other libraries can do but its much more usable than it was before. Seems like most of the woods and brass legatos have been improved with the new leg programming as well  Nice to have the new brass mute articulations and the solo horn is much better now. Nice update overall.


Agreed.


----------



## jaketanner

Anyone use the Berlin Timpani with BBC? Any thoughts?


----------



## Will Wilson

Still no update here after 36 hours, I want to play that Solo Horn!


----------



## PerryD

Will Wilson said:


> Still no update here after 36 hours, I want to play that Solo Horn!


I finally got the Pro update at around 2:00AM here in Georgia. Download was very fast. About 40 minutes for the big part (brass) and about 20 minutes for everything else. I did not see an optimize option. Apparently available by clicking on the cog. I will try that later.


----------



## PianoWithSam

How long should optimisation (for the first time) take?


----------



## Jaap

AndyP said:


> Bass Flute does not load on my computer. There is no sound. Does anyone else have this? Everything else works fine.


Bass flute works here (1.2 PRO) and tested also loading a few different mics, but all works normally.


----------



## Zero&One

PianoWithSam said:


> How long should optimisation (for the first time) take?


I remember it taking a very long time originally. So do it overnight as they advise.
Yesterday it only took seconds for me, but that's after several runs over the year.


----------



## andyhy

n


mallux said:


> Not sure if it belongs here or the "where is my upgrade" thread, but it looks like Spitfire's BBCSO templates have been updated with the new instruments and articulations. Well, the Logic one has anyway, haven't tried the others -> https://www.spitfireaudiothepage.com/posts/pro-templates


Still no Reaper template


----------



## andyhy

AndyP said:


> Bass Flute does not load on my computer. There is no sound. Does anyone else have this? Everything else works fine.


I haven't experienced that problem. It works fine on my system. Try reloading or check the sends routing.


----------



## andyhy

The contrast issue in the GUI seems to have been fixed. I removed and then reloaded the instruments where the GUI had that washed out, low contrast look. The new GUI is a lot easier to see.


----------



## Hooo

ChromeCrescendo said:


> What do you all think of the reverb available within BBCSO?
> 
> Do you turn it all the way down and use a third party reverb?
> 
> Anyone use Logic's Space Designer?
> 
> Thank you.


I use R4 & Valhalla Room as my double jug reverbs, but if there's a melody line that just needs a little extra... *something*, I've found using some of the onboard reverb as well can give a nice effect.


----------



## Hooo

andyhy said:


> n
> 
> Still no Reaper template


The new version of BBCSO isn't available for me to download yet. Once it's downloaded I'll update the Reaper template. I'm not sure if I'll be able to do it this weekend, but definitely by the end of next week 

If you'd like to add the new articulations yourself, you can add them to the BBCSO plugin on each appropriate track using the Techniques Editor (the little pencil icon above where you choose which articulation you're playing).

There's also a bug fix you'll want to do as detailed in this post, in case you missed me posting about it earlier.


----------



## andyhy

That would be very helpful thank you. I have made simple templates but I'm not yet confident of the optimum design for sends, busses etc so to see your template at some point would be greatly appreciated. I have created a simple keyswitch template in Reaper for all the instruments in BBCSO Pro v1.2 and now working on a template with separate midi and audio channels for each articulation. Happy to share both if that saves some time.


----------



## mallux

Ray Toler said:


> Yes, but a bass flute part will translate to both Core and Discover (I believe by shifting down the normal Flute samples). Since no version information was provided in the post, I was seeing if it might be the same behavior my test user had.
> 
> 
> I'm still waiting on my update, so can't verify that it works (or doesn't) for me. Sorry!


Yeah the faked bass flute has never worked for me using a Core install with a Pro template (which is what I have on my second machine). All the other Pro-only instruments work fine in Core (albeit a bit funny sounding), even the new Cimbasso. But bass flute... nope.


----------



## Instrugramm

Will Wilson said:


> Still no update here after 36 hours, I want to play that Solo Horn!


No Update for me either up until now... /:


----------



## Hooo

From https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/h...m7BQMLOKZgDBk_iQAZm9iuzZuk2u69q4jUbPE1p66YgBo


> *Latest: The update is taking slightly longer than previously anticipated.*
> 
> All Professional users should receive all parts of the update by Midnight GMT, Friday 15th January. If you are a Core user, you should receive the update by Monday 18th January. If that is not the case, please feel to get in touch by clicking the Help widget below. Thanks for your patience!


----------



## muziksculp

@Hooo ,

Thanks for the update on the BBCSO Pro Update status. 

BBCSO Pro user here, so far no update is showing up.

hopefully it will show up later today (Jan. 15th).


----------



## Ray Toler

mallux said:


> Yeah the faked bass flute has never worked for me using a Core install with a Pro template (which is what I have on my second machine). All the other Pro-only instruments work fine in Core (albeit a bit funny sounding), even the new Cimbasso. But bass flute... nope.


That's really good to know, thank you! I've got an open ticket with the support lead for BBCSO for a couple of other issues, so I'll let him know that this might be something they need to look into as well - especially since you're using a different DAW and can use their official template.


----------



## muziksculp

OK.. Right after I opened a support ticket, I decided to check again, and ...


----------



## CT

If they've given an updated timeframe, and have asked that you contact support only after that period expires if you still have nothing, it's only going to clog up the system needlessly if people are opening tickets before then.


----------



## Hooo

Is it just me or does the plugin not automatically update you to the new version of the Extended Legato on an older session?

Before the update I set up a session so I could do an in depth comparison between the versions, (playing some music, duplicating the track, and then bouncing the audio for future comparison). It appears that unless you go into the Techniques Browser (the small pencil icon) and remove the Extended Legato, and then re-add it, then the plugin will keep using the old version. At least for the horn, I haven't tested with the other instruments that have had their Extended Legatos updated yet.

I'm not sure if Spitfire mentioned this behaviour, but it's clever stuff that will help keep older sessions sounding as intended. Though I don’t think there’s a visual indication that you’re on the older version (like, no message saying “legacy” or anything) unless I’m missing something?


----------



## PeaQew

Hooo said:


> Is it just me or does the plugin not automatically update you to the new version of the Extended Legato on an older session?
> 
> Before the update I set up a session so I could do an in depth comparison between the versions, (playing some music, duplicating the track, and then bouncing the audio for future comparison). It appears that unless you go into the Techniques Browser (the small pencil icon) and remove the Extended Legato, and then re-add it, then the plugin will keep using the old version. At least for the horn, I haven't tested with the other instruments that have had their Extended Legatos updated yet.
> 
> I'm not sure if Spitfire mentioned this behaviour, but it's clever stuff that will help keep older sessions sounding as intended. Though I don’t think there’s a visual indication that you’re on the older version (like, no message saying “legacy” or anything) unless I’m missing something?


I think right-clicking the little "reload" button next to the mode selector and selecting "Update Instruments To Latest Version" should do the trick!


----------



## AllanH

PeaQew said:


> I think right-clicking the little "reload" button next to the mode selector and selecting "Update Instruments To Latest Version" should do the trick!


Thank you for that little tip. I'd never noticed this feature and I had not recognized that I needed to manually upgrade my projects to ensure that the latest version was active.

It also includes a menu item to update all "Refresh all instances", but I'm not clear on whether also upgrades to the most recent software. It's probably just a refresh.

ADDED: after a bit of experimentation, I'm pretty sure that "Refresh all instances" does not update to the latest version.


----------



## Hooo

Yes, thanks for that @PeaQew !

One thing I noticed - unfortunately the "Update Instruments To Latest Version" feature also reloads all the articulations for that instrument and sets the selected articulation to the legato, so it will be a bit of leg work at this stage to update a whole project, then sort out all the articulations again. Hopefully this is something they might be able to make easier a future update. 

It looks like it does preserve settings for tightness, reverb etc. though so that's good.


----------



## Hooo

Also, does anyone know the meaning of this green dot in the upper right where you choose each articulation? Sometimes its there and sometimes it's not and I haven't worked out the logic to it. There doesn't seem to be any reference to it in the manual either, unless I've missed it.


----------



## PeaQew

@Hooo Glad I was able to help! From what I've seen, the green dot is on every articulation except for Legato patches when there is also an Extended patch available on the same instrument. If that is really the case though, I do wonder what the purpose is.


----------



## chlady

I have been having trouble getting BBCSO to show up in Komplete Kontrol browser. I just installed the the new BBCSO 1.2 update yesterday in the Spitfire app hoping that might fix it and it all installed correctly there and I did the opitimise. I did see KK scan BBC at startup again but still does not show up in the Library browser. I can access from the file menu and all seems to be working fine when it is loaded .
I also added in user library the location which didn't seem to help either . The other Spitfire players Abbey Road etc. are showing up in the Library . I wish I can get the rescan to start over just for BBCSO if I can remove the right file but I don't want to have to rescan every VI all over again which I did the other day and it took quite a while and in the end did not help either. 

Any users with Komplete kontrol keyboards with BBCSO pro have any suggestions for removing files or getting this to appear correctly ?

thanks, Craig


----------



## MusiquedeReve

chlady said:


> I have been having trouble getting BBCSO to show up in Komplete Kontrol browser. I just installed the the new BBCSO 1.2 update yesterday in the Spitfire app hoping that might fix it and it all installed correctly there and I did the opitimise. I did see KK scan BBC at startup again but still does not show up in the Library browser. I can access from the file menu and all seems to be working fine when it is loaded .
> I also added in user library the location which didn't seem to help either . The other Spitfire players Abbey Road etc. are showing up in the Library . I wish I can get the rescan to start over just for BBCSO if I can remove the right file but I don't want to have to rescan every VI all over again which I did the other day and it took quite a while and in the end did not help either.
> 
> Any users with Komplete kontrol keyboards with BBCSO pro have any suggestions for removing files or getting this to appear correctly ?
> 
> thanks, Craig


My KKS88 is supposed to arrive on Monday, I will be installing Komplete Kontrol for the first time - I am hoping BBCSO shows up therein - if not, I will be right here with you attempting to find a solution


----------



## José Herring

London finally answered. I GOT MY UPDATE!!!!!


----------



## mgnoatto

José Herring said:


> London finally answered. I GOT MY UPDATE!!!!!


Now you can do Hybrid with BBC!


----------



## companyofquail

chlady said:


> I have been having trouble getting BBCSO to show up in Komplete Kontrol browser. I just installed the the new BBCSO 1.2 update yesterday in the Spitfire app hoping that might fix it and it all installed correctly there and I did the opitimise. I did see KK scan BBC at startup again but still does not show up in the Library browser. I can access from the file menu and all seems to be working fine when it is loaded .
> I also added in user library the location which didn't seem to help either . The other Spitfire players Abbey Road etc. are showing up in the Library . I wish I can get the rescan to start over just for BBCSO if I can remove the right file but I don't want to have to rescan every VI all over again which I did the other day and it took quite a while and in the end did not help either.
> 
> Any users with Komplete kontrol keyboards with BBCSO pro have any suggestions for removing files or getting this to appear correctly ?
> 
> thanks, Craig


Try to initialize your browser by deleting this file and then open komplete in stand alone version to rebuild your library. 









My KOMPLETE KONTROL Browser is Empty or Incomplete


If your KOMPLETE KONTROL Browser is empty or incomplete (i.e. individual presets or products are missing), please follow these troubleshooting steps. 1. Install the Latest KOMPLETE KONTROL Update Y...




support.native-instruments.com


----------



## Bluemount Score

Hooo said:


> Also, does anyone know the meaning of this green dot in the upper right where you choose each articulation? Sometimes its there and sometimes it's not and I haven't worked out the logic to it. There doesn't seem to be any reference to it in the manual either, unless I've missed it.


Hm, just checked and for me it's there with any articulation (Pro and Core)


----------



## chlady

companyofquail said:


> Try to initialize your browser by deleting this file and then open komplete in stand alone version to rebuild your library.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My KOMPLETE KONTROL Browser is Empty or Incomplete
> 
> 
> If your KOMPLETE KONTROL Browser is empty or incomplete (i.e. individual presets or products are missing), please follow these troubleshooting steps. 1. Install the Latest KOMPLETE KONTROL Update Y...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> support.native-instruments.com


I have only been using the KK standalone right now to sort this out and went through that page at NI and rescanned the library and deleted the db3 file which did not seem to work . Spitfire also had me remove the BBCSO VST and VST3 from the mac library /audio/plugins/ and open KK then quit and put them back in again so it would rescan . I did this before I installed the new update but maybe I should try doing it again after installing the recent update. I hate to have to remove the db3 again and do it for everything in the library as it took while to get everything back in there correctly and was worried I lose more instead of just removing a specific BBCSO file to rescan.


----------



## companyofquail

chlady said:


> I have only been using the KK standalone right now to sort this out and went through that page at NI and rescanned the library and deleted the db3 file which did not seem to work . Spitfire also had me remove the BBCSO VST and VST3 from the mac library /audio/plugins/ and open KK then quit and put them back in again so it would rescan . I did this before I installed the new update but maybe I should try doing it again after installing the recent update. I hate to have to remove the db3 again and do it for everything in the library as it took while to get everything back in there correctly and was worried I lose more instead of just removing a specific BBCSO file to rescan.


ok, i know it sounds weird but:

close KK then go to spitfire app and try to repair the library, then open kk, then go to the kk preferences and manually scan the spitfire folder. if no dice, remove the spitfire folder in kk and then make it again. and if that doesnt work; close kk and open the spitfire app again. reinstall bbcso then open kk again. and try all that above again. i feel your pain bc bbcso was the only library that didnt work for me in NKS. i tried all of the stuff i listed above in different orders a few times and it worked. now its there. this happened on both mac and pc.


----------



## chlady

companyofquail said:


> ok, i know it sounds weird but:
> 
> close KK then go to spitfire app and try to repair the library, then open kk, then go to the kk preferences and manually scan the spitfire folder. if no dice, remove the spitfire folder in kk and then make it again. and if that doesnt work; close kk and open the spitfire app again. reinstall bbcso then open kk again. and try all that above again. i feel your pain bc bbcso was the only library that didnt work for me in NKS. i tried all of the stuff i listed above in different orders a few times and it worked. now its there. this happened on both mac and pc.


Ok thanks for your insights . I will give that a shot and see what happens but where are you removing the spitfire folder in KK? It is not showing up in the Library prefs , I did add it to the user prefs in KK but I'm not sure if that helped or not . It did finally show up in the file menu under instruments in the Spitfire folder there and can load BBCSO from there. 
I did reinstall BBC in the spitfire app once already and repaired it in the spitfire app but will try again . Did you remove anything from the computers main Library/prefs concerning NI or NKS? Did you see the BBCSO folder in your KK Library prefs ? (see my pics.)


----------



## companyofquail

i see that you have masse, im jelly. 

bbcso did not show up before and i had to just keep uninstalling and reinstalling it and opening kk and it finally just worked then never messed up since(that was the week of release). 

i did not mess with anything that was nks or nki related to get it working. 

when it does show up in your nks it will read 

Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra

just putting that here so you know exactly what to look for. 

the folder i was refering to deleting was one i had pointed at the Spitfire folder from the:

"plug ins" -> "locations"

i dont think this should really make a difference it was just something i did before rescaning a few of the times.


----------



## companyofquail

chlady said:


> Ok thanks for your insights . I will give that a shot and see what happens but where are you removing the spitfire folder in KK? It is not showing up in the Library prefs , I did add it to the user prefs in KK but I'm not sure if that helped or not . It did finally show up in the file menu under instruments in the Spitfire folder there and can load BBCSO from there.
> I did reinstall BBC in the spitfire app once already and repaired it in the spitfire app but will try again . Did you remove anything from the computers main Library/prefs concerning NI or NKS? Did you see the BBCSO folder in your KK Library prefs ? (see my pics.)


Did you have any luck?


----------



## chlady

Yes I did, thanks. Reinstalled the plugin in the Spitfire app and did a few repairs and rescaned in Komplete kontrol a few times . It is showing up in the Browser library now and So far everything seems to be working correctly but will test further. 

Question are there some volume inconsistencies with some of the articulations ie. Trpts and Horns staccatisimo muted and others . Also does anyone else get Trpts A3 marcato(muted) sustaining quite a bit when lifting your finger off the key especially with a high velocity?


----------



## MusiquedeReve

My KKS88 is supposed to arrive this


chlady said:


> Yes I did, thanks. Reinstalled the plugin in the Spitfire app and did a few repairs and rescaned in Komplete kontrol a few times . It is showing up in the Browser library now and So far everything seems to be working correctly but will test further.
> 
> Question are there some volume inconsistencies with some of the articulations ie. Trpts and Horns staccatisimo muted and others . Also does anyone else get Trpts A3 marcato(muted) sustaining quite a bit when lifting your finger off the key especially with a high velocity?


My KKS88 finally arrived a half hour ago
I did an initial setup and it populated with all the LABS and BBCSO
Phew!

It's been a long day so I am not going to do a deep dive into it until tomrorow


----------



## tonalexplorer

jaketanner said:


> I noticed that as well...was the same with the old version. The easiest thing to do I think would be to just set the sustain pedal ON in the automation of your DAW so that they never trigger...Then if you want then to, just automate the sustain. Seems to be the best course of action. I don't have my pedal connected at the moment, so I may just set all string legato with the pedal down in the automation lanes.


@jaketanner - does the Sustain pedal have some function in BBCSO String patches? I didn't spot that anywhere in the manual but may have missed it. Does it turn off staccato overlay or something?


----------



## icecoolpool

tonalexplorer said:


> @jaketanner - does the Sustain pedal have some function in BBCSO String patches? I didn't spot that anywhere in the manual but may have missed it. Does it turn off staccato overlay or something?


Yes!


----------



## jaketanner

tonalexplorer said:


> @jaketanner - does the Sustain pedal have some function in BBCSO String patches? I didn't spot that anywhere in the manual but may have missed it. Does it turn off staccato overlay or something?


It is supposed to...but when I set the pedal in my automation to always ON...I couldn't get that initial hard attack in the strings to subside...so now I am skeptical again, but yes...it is what I was told by support. Maybe it just doesn't work on the first note?


----------



## companyofquail

ChromeCrescendo said:


> My KKS88 is supposed to arrive this
> 
> My KKS88 finally arrived a half hour ago
> I did an initial setup and it populated with all the LABS and BBCSO
> Phew!
> 
> It's been a long day so I am not going to do a deep dive into it until tomrorow


your labs should not be showing up in your photo browser window to the left of komplete kontrol as they are not NKS.(although there is a custom script to have them in your user library). i am assuming you mean they are showing up as VST? i think the problem that @chlady was having was the BBCSO was not showing up in the komplete kontrol NKS photo browser. 

either way, that is awesome it is all working for you. i was actually getting ready to upgrade from core over the weekend then the announcement for CDT dropped and i put any purchases on hold until after the announcement.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

companyofquail said:


> your labs should not be showing up in your photo browser window to the left of komplete kontrol as they are not NKS.(although there is a custom script to have them in your user library). i am assuming you mean they are showing up as VST? i think the problem that @chlady was having was the BBCSO was not showing up in the komplete kontrol NKS photo browser.
> 
> either way, that is awesome it is all working for you. i was actually getting ready to upgrade from core over the weekend then the announcement for CDT dropped and i put any purchases on hold until after the announcement.


I misspoke - the Spitfire Originals are showing up in the photo browser


----------



## companyofquail

ChromeCrescendo said:


> I misspoke - the Spitfire Originals are showing up in the photo browser


easy mistake, i used to get the labs, originals and SA stuff mixed up a lot too. had the same problem when i started out with the NI stuff a few years back: native access, kontakt(player and full), reaktor, komplete kontrol, maschine....... took me a while to get all that straight(not sure i still do).


----------



## DovesGoWest

jaketanner said:


> It is supposed to...but when I set the pedal in my automation to always ON...I couldn't get that initial hard attack in the strings to subside...so now I am skeptical again, but yes...it is what I was told by support. Maybe it just doesn't work on the first note?


Ive found the same issues on some of the solo woodwinds, sometimes a lower velocity removes sometimes it doesnt. It seems the new legato extended has brought in an inconsistancy


----------



## SupremeFist

jaketanner said:


> It is supposed to...but when I set the pedal in my automation to always ON...I couldn't get that initial hard attack in the strings to subside...so now I am skeptical again, but yes...it is what I was told by support. Maybe it just doesn't work on the first note?


I didn't know this! Is there a decent guide somewhere for such things? The manual is useless in terms of explaining how the patches are actually designed to be played/programmed.


----------



## jaketanner

SupremeFist said:


> I didn't know this! Is there a decent guide somewhere for such things? The manual is useless in terms of explaining how the patches are actually designed to be played/programmed.


Not sure. It’s just something support mentioned to me as well as a few people on VI. Not sure if this matters much for other instruments since most have the two legato patches now.


----------



## DovesGoWest

jaketanner said:


> Not sure. It’s just something support mentioned to me as well as a few people on VI. Not sure if this matters much for other instruments since most have the two legato patches now.


Its damm annoying though as it ruins a piece where you get this initial note with an overlayed spiccato\staccato on it. I havent heard it on the "legato" articulation only the "legato (extended) so for most instruments you can switch back but for strings you have no option.


----------



## jaketanner

DovesGoWest said:


> Its damm annoying though as it ruins a piece where you get this initial note with an overlayed spiccato\staccato on it. I havent heard it on the "legato" articulation only the "legato (extended) so for most instruments you can switch back but for strings you have no option.


Right. It did improve in this latest update but I still get a hard attack on that first note. Only low dynamics lessens it but shouldn’t be this way. It’s Hard to get a smooth first note.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## DovesGoWest

jaketanner said:


> Right. It did improve in this latest update but I still get a hard attack on that first note. Only low dynamics lessens it but shouldn’t be this way. It’s Hard to get a smooth first note.


@jaketanner have you tried the transpose yet, i'm finding that it doesnt seem to work anymore


----------



## jaketanner

DovesGoWest said:


> @jaketanner have you tried the transpose yet, i'm finding that it doesnt seem to work anymore


You mean the transpose trick? I haven’t had the need. What are you trying to transpose?


----------



## DovesGoWest

jaketanner said:


> You mean the transpose trick? I haven’t had the need. What are you trying to transpose?


I was doing it on the viola's to create a divisi section, i'd mixed the project on 1.19 and it was fine i just reopened in 1.2 and when i played it back it sounded horrible so tracked it down to the transpose.


----------



## jaketanner

DovesGoWest said:


> I was doing it on the viola's to create a divisi section, i'd mixed the project on 1.19 and it was fine i just reopened in 1.2 and when i played it back it sounded horrible so tracked it down to the transpose.


Haven’t tried actually but will try it tonight.


----------



## jamie8

Yes! This also happens in1.05 of aroof!
It is the actuall spitfire plugin it seems as it is happening on both bbcso and aroof!


----------



## Trevor Meier

For those who have the update, make sure to file a support ticket as some of the past issues weren’t on their radar


----------



## Aldunate

chlady said:


> I have been having trouble getting BBCSO to show up in Komplete Kontrol browser. I just installed the the new BBCSO 1.2 update yesterday in the Spitfire app hoping that might fix it and it all installed correctly there and I did the opitimise. I did see KK scan BBC at startup again but still does not show up in the Library browser. I can access from the file menu and all seems to be working fine when it is loaded .
> I also added in user library the location which didn't seem to help either . The other Spitfire players Abbey Road etc. are showing up in the Library . I wish I can get the rescan to start over just for BBCSO if I can remove the right file but I don't want to have to rescan every VI all over again which I did the other day and it took quite a while and in the end did not help either.
> 
> Any users with Komplete kontrol keyboards with BBCSO pro have any suggestions for removing files or getting this to appear correctly ?
> 
> thanks, Craig


Try this: go to Native Instruments in Shared folder, open the BBC folder, there’s PAR resources folder and go to Image->BBC. Copy that folder.

Now go to Documents ->NI Resources->Images and paste that folder.

The plugin installer sometimes misses this step. It’s only the images that are missing, you should be able to open BBC as a VST and it will be recognized as NKS without the KK browser photos.


----------



## JDK88

DovesGoWest said:


> @jaketanner have you tried the transpose yet, i'm finding that it doesnt seem to work anymore


I can confirm transpose doesn't work properly anymore. The playable range gets cut off.


----------



## DovesGoWest

JDK88 said:


> I can confirm transpose doesn't work properly anymore. The playable range gets cut off.


Seems like this is a plug-in issue and not a library issue


----------



## Michael Antrum

Whilst I've managed to get the update downloaded, I was wondering if the templates (and specifically for the Cubase template) had been updated to reflect this. 

Unfortunately this thread is a big large to search through - so does anybody know ?


----------



## jaketanner

Michael Antrum said:


> Whilst I've managed to get the update downloaded, I was wondering if the templates (and specifically for the Cubase template) had been updated to reflect this.
> 
> Unfortunately this thread is a big large to search through - so does anybody know ?


Isn't the only difference just a couple of instruments? Might be easier to just add those in rather than download the whole template again.


----------



## Michael Antrum

jaketanner said:


> Isn't the only difference just a couple of instruments? Might be easier to just add those in rather than download the whole template again.


Well there's all the mutes and the templates are really small downloads ... plus the fact I'm not able to test 
it at the moment .....


----------



## Ray Toler

jaketanner said:


> Isn't the only difference just a couple of instruments? Might be easier to just add those in rather than download the whole template again.


I was worried that the update would mean a lot of work on the templates I'm working on (for Digital Performer), but it really wasn't too bad. Spitfire was nice and put the new mute articulations at the end of the existing instruments rather than inserting them, so keyswitch assignments (and MIDI channel assignments in my case) didn't have to be completely redone across the brass.


----------



## Karma

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned here before, but velocity is what controls the first note overlay on the extended legatos. If you don't want that kind of attack, use a low velocity for the first note.


----------



## jaketanner

Ray Toler said:


> I was worried that the update would mean a lot of work on the templates I'm working on (for Digital Performer), but it really wasn't too bad. Spitfire was nice and put the new mute articulations at the end of the existing instruments rather than inserting them, so keyswitch assignments (and MIDI channel assignments in my case) didn't have to be completely redone across the brass.


That's good. Not sure how it works for DP, but in Pro Tools, I can just import the tracks that are new rather than open the whole thing.


----------



## DovesGoWest

Karma said:


> I'm not sure if it's been mentioned here before, but velocity is what controls the first note overlay on the extended legatos. If you don't want that kind of attack, use a low velocity for the first note.


Yes this is what we understood however this appears to have been broken in the latest update, i have raised a support ticket on this but certainly on Violins1 reducing the velocity is not removing the overlay


----------



## DovesGoWest

Found an issue with the Viola's Legato as well, the staccato overlay is overriding the legato regardless of velocities or overlapping. I have a piece with 6 quavers followed by a semibreve , the notes all overlap in the midi and have low velocities. When played by the Viola's i get 6 staccato sounding notes followed by the whole note, if i move the midi to Violins1 it plays the entire phrase with legato slurs in a smooth more connected way.


----------



## mybadmemory

For me the notes no longer need to overlap to trigger legato in the latest update. The legato is triggered if they end/start at the exact same position.

So if I for some reason don’t want to trigger the legato on a certain passage I need to put a short pause between notes. Is this intended? @SpitfireSupport


----------



## Nate Johnson

gaaaaahhhhh. When's the next SA sale anyways? I'm enjoying Core so much but I reeeeeeeeallly want to upgrade to Pro. Mics + extra instruments, duh. Every other project has been shoved aside in favor of this aleatoric-sound-collage-played-by-symphony piece I'm working on now, which of course provides _very_ direct pressure to upgrade - ha. 

I'll keep saying it - this library is just kinda perfect. Thoughts rolling through my brain right now:

1. I've never been bitten by the 'why don't you try and write for an actual orchestra?' bug as hard as I'm being bitten right now. Not saying I'm literally going to go hire and orchestra after this, but 'limitations' are _cool_. 

2. Why do I have other libraries? (alright there's a couple others in play on this piece atm.) If I can stay in this zone, there will definitely be stuff I won't ever touch again. Huh.

3. like OBSESSED

4. SO glad I *finally* upgraded computers. It's been just over a month and I'm definitely all settled in and comfy on the new one - haven't been slowed down for even a _second,_ throwing endless tracks of spaghetti against the wall. 

Maybe it's just all about focusing my scattered musical brain. Working this way brings on that 'everything locking into place' feeling, which is super addicting. 

Pretty funny, as I literally bought Core on a total whim (BF excessive purchasing high) and didn't even touch it until a couple of weeks ago!


----------



## DovesGoWest

Nate Johnson said:


> gaaaaahhhhh. When's the next SA sale anyways? I'm enjoying Core so much but I reeeeeeeeallly want to upgrade to Pro. Mics + extra instruments, duh. Every other project has been shoved aside in favor of this aleatoric-sound-collage-played-by-symphony piece I'm working on now, which of course provides _very_ direct pressure to upgrade - ha.
> 
> I'll keep saying it - this library is just kinda perfect. Thoughts rolling through my brain right now:
> 
> 1. I've never been bitten by the 'why don't you try and write for an actual orchestra?' bug as hard as I'm being bitten right now. Not saying I'm literally going to go hire and orchestra after this, but 'limitations' are _cool_.
> 
> 2. Why do I have other libraries? (alright there's a couple others in play on this piece atm.) If I can stay in this zone, there will definitely be stuff I won't ever touch again. Huh.
> 
> 3. like OBSESSED
> 
> 4. SO glad I *finally* upgraded computers. It's been just over a month and I'm definitely all settled in and comfy on the new one - haven't been slowed down for even a _second,_ throwing endless tracks of spaghetti against the wall.
> 
> Maybe it's just all about focusing my scattered musical brain. Working this way brings on that 'everything locking into place' feeling, which is super addicting.
> 
> Pretty funny, as I literally bought Core on a total whim (BF excessive purchasing high) and didn't even touch it until a couple of weeks ago!


Core is the only full library i have bought and i dont regret it despite the niggles, sometimes i find the BBCSO lacking in certain areas such as when i want a more epic brass feel. However what i am doing is supplementing it when needed, for instance i purchased the 8dio tryit pack (1 Flugel Horn, 2 French Horns) for $8 and it perfectly added to the brass to boost it up to the epic level i wanted in a piece.

My intention is in the future if i find i need a certain sound that the BBC doesnt provide then i look to add to it but always basing everything around the BBCSO


----------



## jaketanner

Another legato issue with strings. (Might happen with others but haven’t tried). During some long legato notes it just cuts out. No reason, just cuts out. Happened with vin leader 1 and with vin 2 legato. But in the midst of things I can’t tell it’s happening until I solo and work the part. Then it’s like “wtf” is going on? This is intermittent. So I know it’s not a setting like I’m running out of voices.

anyone else have notes cut out?


----------



## DovesGoWest

jaketanner said:


> Another legato issue with strings. (Might happen with others but haven’t tried). During some long legato notes it just cuts out. No reason, just cuts out. Happened with vin leader 1 and with vin 2 legato. But in the midst of things I can’t tell it’s happening until I solo and work the part. Then it’s like “wtf” is going on? This is intermittent. So I know it’s not a setting like I’m running out of voices.
> 
> anyone else have notes cut out?


Just tried to recreate it but with no luck


----------



## jaketanner

DovesGoWest said:


> Just tried to recreate it but with no luck


Yeah, it doesn’t happen all the time. No idea if the player isn’t catching up or what. I have about 20 tracks give it take of bbc along with some Kontakt. Not sure but definitely a bug.


----------



## Ivan Duch

Anybody else experiencing bumpy legatos in the Celli in the low dynamics after the update? It's as if the stacc layer isn't completely removed when transitioning between notes or it's triggering a legato transition with too much volume. I don't notice the same effect in any of the other strings legatos.


----------



## DovesGoWest

jaketanner said:


> Yeah, it doesn’t happen all the time. No idea if the player isn’t catching up or what. I have about 20 tracks give it take of bbc along with some Kontakt. Not sure but definitely a bug.


It just happened on one of my tracks Violins1 and Vioins2 started cutting sustained notes short, also Flute Legato keeps add a blip note after the note has ended.


----------



## jaketanner

DovesGoWest said:


> It just happened on one of my tracks Violins1 and Vioins2 started cutting sustained notes short, also Flute Legato keeps add a blip note after the note has ended.


Damn..Hopefully they are reading these posts. @SpitfireSupport @Spitfire Team


----------



## Nate Johnson

jaketanner said:


> Damn..Hopefully they are reading these posts. @SpitfireSupport @Spitfire Team


Jake and Doves - anything strange happening with controller data to cause this behavior by chance? I know my keyboard mod wheel/daw relationship is finicky at best. Just something silly to check!


----------



## jaketanner

Nate Johnson said:


> Jake and Doves - anything strange happening with controller data to cause this behavior by chance? I know my keyboard mod wheel/daw relationship is finicky at best. Just something silly to check!


Haven't checked that but I will. Might be...it's the same long note in different instruments but the CC1 might be close.


----------



## DovesGoWest

Nate Johnson said:


> Jake and Doves - anything strange happening with controller data to cause this behavior by chance? I know my keyboard mod wheel/daw relationship is finicky at best. Just something silly to check!


CC1 is moving up and down between 60 and 110 and CC11 is static at 127


----------



## jaketanner

DovesGoWest said:


> CC1 is moving up and down between 60 and 110 and CC11 is static at 127


So I tested it out. I first removed the CC1 data. The cut long note was fine. I did an undo and brought the CC info back and the issue was back again to cutting the note. I lowered the dynamic and it fixed the issue. I then raised it back to where it was originally and it also fixed the issue. This is clearly a bug that comes and goes. No rhyme or reason here. Just seems like stuck CC1 data. This is an issue.


----------



## Ivan Duch

I do get cutted longs for no apparent reason from time to time as well. No apparent reason meaning the cpu load is fine and the instruments have finished loading. The biggest offender happened yesterday with the horns a4 longs patch.


jaketanner said:


> So I tested it out. I first removed the CC1 data. The cut long note was fine. I did an undo and brought the CC info back and the issue was back again to cutting the note. I lowered the dynamic and it fixed the issue. I then raised it back to where it was originally and it also fixed the issue. This is clearly a bug that comes and goes. No rhyme or reason here. Just seems like stuck CC1 data. This is an issue.


I also fixed it messing with cc1 and cc11, not sure which one fixed it. The longs were getting cutted everytime I played the line, even if I muted all the rest.


----------



## jaketanner

Ivan Duch said:


> I also fixed it messing with cc1 and cc11, not sure which one fixed it. The longs were getting cutted everytime I played the line, even if I muted all the rest.


What DAW are you using? I am on Pro Tools...but this really shouldn't make a difference.


----------



## jaketanner

Can anyone confirm what RAM they see if you remove all mic? Turn them off so there is no sound...and only Legato articulation. My player, with nothing on shows 250+ MB alone...multiply this by a session and you can end up with a few gigs just from the player alone...this can't be right. I know there are some MBs needed but not over 250 worth.


----------



## Ivan Duch

jaketanner said:


> What DAW are you using? I am on Pro Tools...but this really shouldn't make a difference.


I'm using Reaper, Windows 10, 32gb RAM. Regarding Ram, I also experience similar stuff. I think the plugin reserves itself lots of RAM even though it's not using it.


----------



## jaketanner

Ivan Duch said:


> I'm using Reaper, Windows 10, 32gb RAM. Regarding Ram, I also experience similar stuff. I think the plugin reserves itself lots of RAM even though it's not using it.


Seems to be a player issue then


----------



## styledelk

Have you reported this yet?


----------



## jaketanner

styledelk said:


> Have you reported this yet?


I asked support if this is normal. I am doing some more tests today with 20 tracks all disabled and various articulations and see what I can figure out. I just now put one instance in a blank session with no mics loaded. Shows 263mb for vin 1 legato. (No mic on). I duplicated it 4 times. The player still shows the same ram. Seems odd that there is no increase but further testing will happen later tonight.


----------



## styledelk

jaketanner said:


> I asked support if this is normal. I am doing some more tests today with 20 tracks all disabled and various articulations and see what I can figure out. I just now put one instance in a blank session with no mics loaded. Shows 263mb for vin 1 legato. (No mic on). I duplicated it 4 times. The player still shows the same ram. Seems odd that there is no increase but further testing will happen later tonight.


That doesn't seem odd to me. The player uses shared resources across tracks. It's not like Kontakt where each instance is a separate sandbox.

To the best of my knowledge.


----------



## antanasb

styledelk said:


> That doesn't seem odd to me. The player uses shared resources across tracks. It's not like Kontakt where each instance is a separate sandbox.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge.



Yes, you can load as many instances as you want. The samples are shared — very nice feature..


----------



## DovesGoWest

I raised a support ticket over the weekend stating about the transpose issue and also the heavy attack that cant be stopped on at least violins 1. I just went to check my ticket and support looked at this morning and have now marked it as solved with absolutly no comments or communication with me as the customer. 

That is terrible customer service to just close a ticket and mark it as solved without communicating another back to the customer. Why do Spitfire keep doing this, they do some great things and then shoot themselves in the foot with terrible communication


----------



## jaketanner

DovesGoWest said:


> I raised a support ticket over the weekend stating about the transpose issue and also the heavy attack that cant be stopped on at least violins 1. I just went to check my ticket and support looked at this morning and have now marked it as solved with absolutly no comments or communication with me as the customer.
> 
> That is terrible customer service to just close a ticket and mark it as solved without communicating another back to the customer. Why do Spitfire keep doing this, they do some great things and then shoot themselves in the foot with terrible communication


I do have to say that every day I go back and forth with SF support. Angus, who is also on the FB forums has been pretty responsive. Granted it's once a day due to time differences, but so far they have been pretty good with the replies and trying to help. Maybe was a glitch in their system?


----------



## DovesGoWest

jaketanner said:


> I do have to say that every day I go back and forth with SF support. Angus, who is also on the FB forums has been pretty responsive. Granted it's once a day due to time differences, but so far they have been pretty good with the replies and trying to help. Maybe was a glitch in their system?


Not sure maybe, but working in IT and having written support systems before it shouldn't allow you to close a ticket without notifying the person who raised it with a reason for closure.


----------



## jaketanner

DovesGoWest said:


> Not sure maybe, but working in IT and having written support systems before it shouldn't allow you to close a ticket without notifying the person who raised it with a reason for closure.


Agreed.


----------



## Ivan Duch

I had a great experience with their support as well. It could have been the specific support team member or closing it by mistake.


----------



## Ivan Duch

Anybody else noticed an issue with the legato on celli when using low dynamics?


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

BBCSO Pro ver. 1.20 , Vlns 1 Sul-Tasto , Playing E4, F4 produced this thumpy sound at the start of the sample playback. Could someone check if they have this issue as well, if Yes, we need them to fix it.

I repeatedly played the E4-F4 keys with other notes, so you can hear the issue.

I thought someone was knocking on my door, or banging on my wall when I first played these notes  

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Ivan Duch

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> BBCSO Pro ver. 1.20 , Vlns 1 Sul-Tasto , Playing E4, F4 produced this thumpy sound at the start of the sample playback. Could someone check if they have this issue as well, if Yes, we need them to fix it.
> 
> I repeatedly played the E4-F4 keys with other notes, so you can hear the issue.
> 
> I thought someone was knocking on my door, or banging on my wall when I first played these notes
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


Same here. That particular noise affects too much attack of the note but there are noises in many other samples. 

@muziksculp do you get a bumpy legato for celli on the lower dynamics as well?


----------



## muziksculp

Ivan Duch said:


> Same here. That particular noise affects too much attack of the note but there are noises in many other samples.
> 
> @muziksculp do you get a bumpy legato for celli on the lower dynamics as well?


Thanks for confirming the Sul-Tasto VLNS 1 issue on E4-F4. 

I will test the Celli Legato being bumpy at lower dynamics, and post back. 

Is that issue happening over the entire key-range of the Celli ?


----------



## Ivan Duch

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for confirming the Sul-Tasto VLNS 1 issue on E4-F4.
> 
> I will test the Celli Legato being bumpy at lower dynamics, and post back.
> 
> Is that issue happening over the entire key-range of the Celli ?


I had opened another project (not my template) for testing the vls 1 issue and when you mentioned the celli I tested them there and the legato worked well. Went back to my template and reloaded the legato patch and it fixed it. It was probably some cc issue.


----------



## muziksculp

Ivan Duch said:


> I had opened another project (not my template) for testing the vls 1 issue and when you mentioned the celli I tested them there and the legato worked well. Went back to my template and reloaded the legato patch and it fixed. It was probably some cc issue.


OK. That's good, I went ahead, and tested the Celli Legatos at lower dynamics, and didn't hear any bumpiness in the legato transitions.

Here is a doodle for you I just did with the Celli. The only bumpiness you might hear is me moving the mod-wheel a bit too abrupt causing the bump. Otherwise it sounds very smooth, and nice to me.


----------



## Ivan Duch

muziksculp said:


> OK. That's good, I went ahead, and tested the Celli Legatos at lower dynamics, and didn't hear any bumpiness in the legato transitions.
> 
> Here is a doodle for you I just did with the Celli. The only bumpiness you might hear is me moving the mod-wheel a bit too abrupt causing the bump. Otherwise it sounds very smooth, and nice to me.


Thanks! Yes, I like the legatos in general. 

Also, I posted it in another thread. I've been using the spicc and stacc of vls2 when I need a tighter more epic sound. I found the tempo to be much better than the vls 1. Also layering with the strings leaders seem to help for all the strings.

So one the of articulations which I thought were by far the weakest point weren't that bad in my experience, specially when you play around with the mics.


----------



## muziksculp

Ivan Duch said:


> Thanks! Yes, I like the legatos in general.
> 
> Also, I posted it in another thread. I've been using the spicc and stacc of vls2 when I need a tighter more epic sound. I found the tempo to be much better than the vls 1. Also layering with the strings leaders seem to help for all the strings.
> 
> So one the of articulations which I thought were by far the weakest point weren't that bad in my experience, specially when you play around with the mics.


I have not used my BBCSO Pro much, so I'm just beginning to discover it. Although I had it for some time already. It would be nice, and helpful to keep posting more tips, and bugs we find on this thread.

Has anyone reported the Sul-Tasto issue to Spitfire Support ?


----------



## jamie8

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> BBCSO Pro ver. 1.20 , Vlns 1 Sul-Tasto , Playing E4, F4 produced this thumpy sound at the start of the sample playback. Could someone check if they have this issue as well, if Yes, we need them to fix it.
> 
> I repeatedly played the E4-F4 keys with other notes, so you can hear the issue.
> 
> I thought someone was knocking on my door, or banging on my wall when I first played these notes
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


yup tried it tonight , seems to be very pronounced in mix 2 especially,.. mix one not as bad , funny the close mic seems to be fine


----------



## muziksculp

If someone has reported the Sul-Tasto issue, I won't bother reporting it. 

Has anyone reported it ?


----------



## Ivan Duch

muziksculp said:


> If someone has reported the Sul-Tasto issue, I won't bother reporting it.
> 
> Has anyone reported it ?


No, I haven't, I found it when you mentioned it. There are many other noises in the samples, but I wonder if they can really fix them without re-recording.


----------



## muziksculp

Ivan Duch said:


> No, I haven't, I found it when you mentioned it. There are many other noises in the samples, but I wonder if they can really fix them without re-recording.


It makes me wonder how something so audible like this went by their QA Dept., do they double, and triple check these patches to make sure all notes are playing what they should be, and not some *!$&#%@ ?


----------



## Hadrondrift

muziksculp said:


> It makes me wonder how something so audible like this went by their QA Dept


I haven't experienced a Spitfire library yet that didn't make me shake my head at times. (e.g.: Violas Bartok Pizzicato, A5. Sounds like someone is sneezing in one of the round robins 

Sound-wise, they are in a class of their own, if only the QA were right, it sometimes leaves a bit to be desired... So again some loud/noisy samples in BBCSO (hits, bumps, corpus noises, ...). I also don't think there will/can be fixes. There are still unusable out-of-tune patches in SCS for instance.

In contrast, the QA in VSL is excellent; I have never actually noticed any background noise events in any of their samples, that is quite astonishing even.

Happy BBCSO owner, it is not _that_ frequent, but - why?


----------



## DovesGoWest

DovesGoWest said:


> I raised a support ticket over the weekend stating about the transpose issue and also the heavy attack that cant be stopped on at least violins 1. I just went to check my ticket and support looked at this morning and have now marked it as solved with absolutly no comments or communication with me as the customer.
> 
> That is terrible customer service to just close a ticket and mark it as solved without communicating another back to the customer. Why do Spitfire keep doing this, they do some great things and then shoot themselves in the foot with terrible communication


@jaketanner just spoken to Angus and the reason the ticket was marked as solved is because he merged it with another ticket i had open. Whilst i accept this and it makes complete sense to combine things together I have pointed out from a customer stand point to just see the ticket getting marked as solved without any explanation isnt good.


----------



## muziksculp

I will report the Vlns 1 Sul-Tasto , Thumpy noises when playing the notes E4, F4 to Spitfire Audio Support, at least they will know the issue exists, and maybe they can fix this in the next update, but I agree it's not very likely they can fix it unless they re-sample them.

*UPDATE:* OK, I reported this issue to Spitfire Audio Support. They will be updating me on the status of this issue. So, I will keep you updated here as well.


----------



## jaketanner

DovesGoWest said:


> @jaketanner just spoken to Angus and the reason the ticket was marked as solved is because he merged it with another ticket i had open. Whilst i accept this and it makes complete sense to combine things together I have pointed out from a customer stand point to just see the ticket getting marked as solved without any explanation isnt good.


He emailed me this morning about another issues I had also...He is pretty good with getting back to people. Glad he cleared that up.


----------



## Lazer42

Hadrondrift said:


> I haven't experienced a Spitfire library yet that didn't make me shake my head at times. (e.g.: Violas Bartok Pizzicato, A5. Sounds like someone is sneezing in one of the round robins
> 
> Sound-wise, they are in a class of their own, if only the QA were right, it sometimes leaves a bit to be desired... So again some loud/noisy samples in BBCSO (hits, bumps, corpus noises, ...). I also don't think there will/can be fixes. There are still unusable out-of-tune patches in SCS for instance.
> 
> In contrast, the QA in VSL is excellent; I have never actually noticed any background noise events in any of their samples, that is quite astonishing even.
> 
> Happy BBCSO owner, it is not _that_ frequent, but - why?


I notice the same things in other libraries, for instance the EW stuff. It's surprising to me that so often these companies - which are producing overall incredible work - are, at the rate they are, missing what seems like one of the most basic aspects of this kind of work: making sure everything is quiet except for the sound being recorded.


----------



## jaketanner

Lazer42 said:


> I notice the same things in other libraries, for instance the EW stuff. It's surprising to me that so often these companies - which are producing overall incredible work - are, at the rate they are, missing what seems like one of the most basic aspects of this kind of work: making sure everything is quiet except for the sound being recorded.


I think it's because it might be a rush to keep costs down..."fix it in the mix" attitude (speculating). Otherwise it may not be cost effective for them if it takes even an extra day to produce.


----------



## Ivan Duch

Yes, being a business they probably have to adhere to a specific budget to keep things afloat. One extra day of recording might mean not being profitable as a company. I know it's far from ideal but it's possible to fix many of the noises with izotope rx (even the cheap elements version).


----------



## DovesGoWest

just for everyone who follows or has contributed to this thread, i asked Spitfire a couple of questions about whether your have to manually update the plugin in existing projects (select the update to latest version icon) and also how the legatos\extended are triggered. Below are the responses i have receieved.

1) When you open the plugin in your DAW, provided you have updated, the latest plugin will load. If you have custom patches, you will need to manually add in the extra techniques we added as part of the update (these will not be added automatically).

2) Legatos offer slower portamento transitions, and are meant for more melodic and slow passaged. Legato (Extended) is better for faster passages, as the transitions are catered for fasters slurs and runs. To trigger the portamento/ slurs, you need to have a low velocity level, and overlapping notes. Lower velocities will also lower the prevalence of the overlay. I always recommend holding the sustain pedal down when you wish to use the transitions, as it guarantees the overlap of notes trigger.

I have followed this up with a confirmation on the which legatos despite the name the strings are using as that is the only section where we do not get a choice of a slow or fast legato.


----------



## DovesGoWest

I forgot to mention that i reported the transpose issue and Angus confirmed they are aware of this and working on it


----------



## muadgil

DovesGoWest said:


> just for everyone who follows or has contributed to this thread, i asked Spitfire a couple of questions about whether your have to manually update the plugin in existing projects (select the update to latest version icon) and also how the legatos\extended are triggered. Below are the responses i have receieved.
> 
> 1) When you open the plugin in your DAW, provided you have updated, the latest plugin will load. If you have custom patches, you will need to manually add in the extra techniques we added as part of the update (these will not be added automatically).
> 
> 2) Legatos offer slower portamento transitions, and are meant for more melodic and slow passaged. Legato (Extended) is better for faster passages, as the transitions are catered for fasters slurs and runs. To trigger the portamento/ slurs, you need to have a low velocity level, and overlapping notes. Lower velocities will also lower the prevalence of the overlay. I always recommend holding the sustain pedal down when you wish to use the transitions, as it guarantees the overlap of notes trigger.
> 
> I have followed this up with a confirmation on the which legatos despite the name the strings are using as that is the only section where we do not get a choice of a slow or fast legato.


Thanks for these investigations.
Great to hear more information about the insides of legato patches.


----------



## tonalexplorer

So I received another golden nugget of info from Spitfire support today about the legatos issue (sadly not mentioned anywhere in manual or online docs). Apologies if y'all already knew this, but it was a surprise to me!

This is useful if you're not getting what you need from the new "Legato (Extended)" patch and need the old "Legato" patch for an instrument. It doesn't help us with Strings unfortunately since their "Legato" patches are actually "Legato (Extended)" patches already.

Spitfire support:


> The traditional Legato is available for every instrument. Where Legato (Extended) is used by default, you will find Legato in the Technique Editor:


I checked one of the BBCSO instruments which got a new "Legato (Extended)" patch in the 1.2. update (Oboe) and lo and behold: <see screenshot>

This might serve as a workaround for some of you seeking the "old" Legato behavior.


----------



## DovesGoWest

tonalexplorer said:


> So I received another golden nugget of info from Spitfire support today about the legatos issue (sadly not mentioned anywhere in manual or online docs). Apologies if y'all already knew this, but it was a surprise to me!
> 
> This is useful if you're not getting what you need from the new "Legato (Extended)" patch and need the old "Legato" patch for an instrument. It doesn't help us with Strings unfortunately since their "Legato" patches are actually "Legato (Extended)" patches already.
> 
> Spitfire support:
> 
> I checked one of the BBCSO instruments which got a new "Legato (Extended)" patch in the 1.2. update (Oboe) and lo and behold: <see screenshot>
> 
> This might serve as a workaround for some of you seeking the "old" Legato behavior.


Check out my post above the ‘legato’ articulation is a slow melodic transition, ‘legato (extended)’ is a fast transition for runs etc. 

I have asked for confirmation that strings use the extended version despite the name. Also you will see in my post about overlapping and the sustain pedal


----------



## Hooo

Hi Reaper + BBCSO users! 

I've updated the Reaper version of the #OneOrchestra template for Version 1.2 of BBCSO. There's now a Pro version too, though you'll need to do a little extra setup as I put this together with the Core edition. 

I'd really appreciate any feedback or suggestions, and some more eyes on it in case I've missed something or made a mistake somewhere. You can download it from my Google Drive for now, and once I've had a chance to respond to any bug reports/feedback that comes up I'll send it to Spitfire to add on to 'The Page' 



Enjoy!

cc: @tc9000 @Markrs @Ivan Duch @gussunkri


----------



## DovesGoWest

@jaketanner @tonalexplorer @muadgil 
Another update on the actual legatos that strings use

From Spitfire Support
I can confirm that Legato patches _are _Legato. There is no crossover or blending of techniques here. Strings do currently not have Legato (Extended), though we hope to offer this in a future update. 

So the upshot is that all strings are using the slow legato until a potential future update


----------



## Markrs

Hooo said:


> Hi Reaper + BBCSO users!
> 
> I've updated the Reaper version of the #OneOrchestra template for Version 1.2 of BBCSO. There's now a Pro version too, though you'll need to do a little extra setup as I put this together with the Core edition.
> 
> I'd really appreciate any feedback or suggestions, and some more eyes on it in case I've missed something or made a mistake somewhere. You can download it from my Google Drive for now, and once I've had a chance to respond to any bug reports/feedback that comes up I'll send it to Spitfire to add on to 'The Page'
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> cc: @tc9000 @Markrs @Ivan Duch @gussunkri



This is great news! Thanks Hew!


----------



## jaketanner

DovesGoWest said:


> @jaketanner @tonalexplorer @muadgil
> Another update on the actual legatos that strings use
> 
> From Spitfire Support
> I can confirm that Legato patches _are _Legato. There is no crossover or blending of techniques here. Strings do currently not have Legato (Extended), though we hope to offer this in a future update.
> 
> So the upshot is that all strings are using the slow legato until a potential future update


This seems off. There is most definitely an overlay into the legato strings...I am 100% certain of it. Also you can now play very fast legato with no issues. I am still having some notes cut out which is extremely frustrating. I tried to streamline the settings to save RAM, but anything less than the default settings is not working at all for multiple mic mixes. I HATE mix 1...LOL

Anyway...I hope there are more updates to perfect this player. But i do love this library overall...sounds awesome.


----------



## BasariStudios

I just have a simple question...is this 500 pages worth reading?
It could be for Entertaining or Educational purposes, either or.


----------



## Ivan Duch

jaketanner said:


> This seems off. There is most definitely an overlay into the legato strings...I am 100% certain of it. Also you can now play very fast legato with no issues. I am still having some notes cut out which is extremely frustrating. I tried to streamline the settings to save RAM, but anything less than the default settings is not working at all for multiple mic mixes. I HATE mix 1...LOL
> 
> Anyway...I hope there are more updates to perfect this player. But i do love this library overall...sounds awesome.


Agreed, the strings legatos sound like the other extended legatos to me as well.


----------



## DovesGoWest

Ivan Duch said:


> Agreed, the strings legatos sound like the other extended legatos to me as well.


I thought the string were the extended versions, but you read what support have said to me


----------



## jaketanner

Ok...those that have pro: I have been making my own mic presets...I have like 10 of them. How the hell am I supposed to know which one the instrument is using if I forget? There is no indication of which mic preset is "on"...Am I missing something?


----------



## Hooo

jaketanner said:


> Ok...those that have pro: I have been making my own mic presets...I have like 10 of them. How the hell am I supposed to know which one the instrument is using if I forget? There is no indication of which mic preset is "on"...Am I missing something?


Since those faders respond to midi, for each of your presets you could make a little midi file which sets each fader to the appropriate level. Save those files in a folder and drop into your daw on the appropriate instrument’s track as required.


----------



## jaketanner

Hooo said:


> Since those faders respond to midi, for each of your presets you could make a little midi file which sets each fader to the appropriate level. Save those files in a folder and drop into your daw on the appropriate instrument’s track as required.


That doesn't show a mic preset name though. Now if I can set an entire mic preset to a MIDI CC, that would be great...but still, there should be a name display so that we know what mic set we are on...I create ones that are similar and being that there are 4 pages of mics, it's not easy to tell based off the first page.


----------



## jbmaxwell

Musicalnut2004 said:


> Random thought, I’d love if SF would add a playable glissandi library, mainly for strings. I know there are pre baked FX but I am constantly in need of specific, timed glissandi in my string sections. Just putting that out in the universe.


+10000 

I've been going crazy trying to find something really good for slow, delicate glissandi. Everything is either amped up "horror" rises and drops, or portamento. I do realize it's a very hard thing to sample, but it would be awesome to have... I've heard bits of Berlin Strings playable glissandi, but they sound very harsh and dense, to me. I'm thinking of the kind of almost "lyrical" slow glissandi you hear in someone like Bent Sorensen's music.


----------



## jaketanner

Hey guys...question about the virtual keyboard and their values compared to what your DAW says.

Trying to use keyswitches, and Pro Tools is one octave higher than what it actually says in the SF player. So PT's C-1 is = to SF player's C0...anyone else have this issue?


----------



## mybadmemory

jaketanner said:


> Hey guys...question about the virtual keyboard and their values compared to what your DAW says.
> 
> Trying to use keyswitches, and Pro Tools is one octave higher than what it actually says in the SF player. So PT's C-1 is = to SF player's C0...anyone else have this issue?


As far as i understand there is no standard for this and everyone does it a little differently.


----------



## jaketanner

mybadmemory said:


> As far as i understand there is no standard for this and everyone does it a little differently.


That's the issue...there actually is a standard in the keyboard playing world. The ISO (International Standards Organization) says that middle C is C4...logically as this is the 4th C on a piano. I am not sure if it's PT that's off or BBC...I think it's PT. 

If anyone with another DAW can confirm for me that would be great. My DAW is one octave higher than the standard.


----------



## mybadmemory

jaketanner said:


> That's the issue...there actually is a standard in the keyboard playing world. The ISO (International Standards Organization) says that middle C is C4...logically as this is the 4th C on a piano. I am not sure if it's PT that's off or BBC...I think it's PT.
> 
> If anyone with another DAW can confirm for me that would be great. My DAW is one octave higher than the standard.


Might there be a setting for it?


----------



## Theladur

jaketanner said:


> That's the issue...there actually is a standard in the keyboard playing world. The ISO (International Standards Organization) says that middle C is C4...logically as this is the 4th C on a piano. I am not sure if it's PT that's off or BBC...I think it's PT.
> 
> If anyone with another DAW can confirm for me that would be great. My DAW is one octave higher than the standard.


Yeah, that has bugged me as well before, and when you search for it, you find lots of threads (also here on VI-Control).

My résumé is: For musicians outside of the technical MIDI-World, like pianists, middle C on the piano is called C4, and the lowest C on a piano is called C1.
However, in the MIDI-World, middle C is often C3 (but that is depending on the DAW, so there are also DAW's that use C4 as middle C). As far as I remember this goes back to a convention introduced by Yamaha? Computer (MIDI) people seem to like the 0 as the smallest state (e.g. C0 as the lowest C on the Piano, instead of C1). I think this is due to the fact that the 0 is the smallest number in the binary system, and 1 is only the second.

It is confusing, but when in doubt what is used in which software, I simply hit middle C (which I now call C4) on my piano and look which C is beeing played (and highlighted) in the DAW or plugin.



mybadmemory said:


> Might there be a setting for it?


As far as I can remember, in some DAW's, e.g. in Logic you can change in the settings what middle C should be called (C3/C4). For Studio One which I am using there is a request from some users, but it is not implemented till today as far as I know.


----------



## jaketanner

Theladur said:


> I simply hit middle C (which I now call C4) on my piano and look which C is beeing played (an


I do also, however I was manually inputting KS notes by hand according to what SF called C-1 and that wasn’t what PT was calling it. LOL.


----------



## Theladur

jaketanner said:


> I do also, however I was manually inputting KS notes by hand according to what SF called C-1 and that wasn’t what PT was calling it. LOL.


I quickly searched, and apparently in Protools you can change the preferred setting for middle C as well (see here, point 4, MIDI settings). So, If you are mainly working with Spitfire, you can change it so the setting of protools and the BBCSO plugin match. But it might happen that than other plugin's are off instead.


----------



## DovesGoWest

jaketanner said:


> I do also, however I was manually inputting KS notes by hand according to what SF called C-1 and that wasn’t what PT was calling it. LOL.


Cubase is the same is refers to middle c as c3 so when you create expression maps for keyswitchs you have to transpose it.


----------



## Ivan Duch

I think Reaper with C3 and I changed it a long time ago.

Also, I've been having good results layering the OT Helix Strings Shorts with the BBCSO. Those are the new free samples from Orchestral Tools, the shorts are quite good and complement well BBCSO for the epic stuff, They're an ensemble, though.


----------



## jaketanner

Theladur said:


> I quickly searched, and apparently in Protools you can change the preferred setting for middle C as well (see here, point 4, MIDI settings). So, If you are mainly working with Spitfire, you can change it so the setting of protools and the BBCSO plugin match. But it might happen that than other plugin's are off instead.


Cool, thanks for that. I’ve been on PT for way many years but never had the need for this. LOL


----------



## jaketanner

DovesGoWest said:


> Cubase is the same is refers to middle c as c3 so when you create expression maps for keyswitchs you have to transpose it.


Ok, so if two major DAWs have it this way maybe it’s the libraries that need to change their KS assignments. Lol


----------



## Trash Panda

jaketanner said:


> Ok, so if two major DAWs have it this way maybe it’s the libraries that need to change their KS assignments. Lol


Audio Imperia lets you choose your key switch assignments. Just saying.


----------



## jaketanner

Trash Panda said:


> Audio Imperia lets you choose your key switch assignments. Just saying.


So does BBC. My issue isn’t with BBC, but with PT. And I believe just about every library allows for KS assignments.


----------



## Trash Panda

jaketanner said:


> So does BBC. My issue isn’t with BBC, but with PT. And I believe just about every library allows for KS assignments.


Oh yeah! I changed all my BBCSO instruments to MIDI channels. Dad brain strikes again.


----------



## jaketanner

Trash Panda said:


> Oh yeah! I changed all my BBCSO instruments to MIDI channels. Dad brain strikes again.


I like they give you several options for this. Not sure KS are the best for my approach, but at least we have options.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Just curious, are you using BBCSO Core/Pro as your Orchestral Template's Foundation, and are also using some other libraries to complement it ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## jaketanner

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just curious, are you using BBCSO Core/Pro as your Orchestral Template's Foundation, and are also using some other libraries to complement it ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


Who are you asking?


----------



## muziksculp

jaketanner said:


> Who are you asking?


Everyone that's using BBCSO Core/Pro.


----------



## jaketanner

muziksculp said:


> Everyone that's using BBCSO Core/Pro.


Ah...I actually have a separate template that I made for BBC, then I'll add libraries as needed. But I am finding that just adding instruments to an empty session seems to work out best for me rather than a BBC template.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I have BBCSO fully included in my template, grouped at the top, above other instrument sections with my other libraries. So easy to start sketching with and programming. And generally sounds great as is.


----------



## muziksculp

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I have BBCSO fully included in my template, grouped at the top, above other instrument sections with my other libraries. So easy to start sketching with and programming. And generally sounds great as is.


Thanks for the feedback. 

Do you have it disabled, or enabled, ready to play in your template ? 

I'm currently thinking of creating an Orch. Template and making BBCSO Pro it's foundation, then complementing it with additional libraries.


----------



## stigc56

I have just finished scoring my contribution to the Scorerelief2021 contest. I started out with all instruments using BBCSO. But I replaced the strings with VSL Synchron Strings, sounds so much better I think.


----------



## muziksculp

stigc56 said:


> I have just finished scoring my contribution to the Scorerelief2021 contest. I started out with all instruments using BBCSO. But I teplaced the strings with VSL Synchron Strings, sounds so much better I think.


Thanks for the feedback. 

I actually like the way the BBCSO Pro Strings sound. But haven't done much as far as comparing them with other libraries.


----------



## CT

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just curious, are you using BBCSO Core/Pro as your Orchestral Template's Foundation, and are also using some other libraries to complement it ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


Yes, I am using the original (Pro) version of the library for the vast majority of my orchestral stuff. I sometimes use SCS and/or Adagio in conjunction with it, for various reasons: fake divisi, an overall smaller or different string character, etc. SCS plus the BBCSO leaders is a current favorite string sound for me.

I've not stopped following new/existing options and weighing how they might work for me, and nothing yet tempts me. I don't expect to make any serious changes until Abbey Road Mania.


----------



## jaketanner

stigc56 said:


> I have just finished scoring my contribution to the Scorerelief2021 contest. I started out with all instruments using BBCSO. But I replaced the strings with VSL Synchron Strings, sounds so much better I think.


I have SY strings 1. And bbc pro and I prefer bbc. Now if I was stuck with the core mix 1 mic, I would be very unhappy.


----------



## jaketanner

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> I actually like the way the BBCSO Pro Strings sound. But haven't done much as far as comparing them with other libraries.


What I have found is that strings pretty much define the overall sound of the composition. With BBC Pro, there is very little I can't achieve sound wise.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> Do you have it disabled, or enabled, ready to play in your template ?
> 
> I'm currently thinking of creating an Orch. Template and making BBCSO Pro it's foundation, then complementing it with additional libraries.


Fully disabled. I converted my Cubase template into a full disabled instrument track template after trying VEP locally first and realizing it was tanking my CPU doing it that way. No problems whatsoever with a disabled template now - way easier to use too. About 500 tracks.


----------



## holywilly

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just curious, are you using BBCSO Core/Pro as your Orchestral Template's Foundation, and are also using some other libraries to complement it ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


Two major leagues in my template, British and Viennese and they work very well together.


----------



## Ivan Duch

My current template is built upon BBCSO Pro, which I purchased for $550 I think. After using it for about a month I'm convinced it's probably one of the more cost-effective orchestral libraries (if not the most). 

Was using HWO before it. I think HWO is probably more versatile, although it sounds quite different. But HWO, at least for me, was a pain to use, mostly because of the resource hog it is.

I added some Labs and Spitfire Originals stuff, Infinite Winds and Brass, some pianos, the latest Strezov cheap choir library, some Eduardo Tarilonte libraries, the shorts from OT Helix Strings, and some sounds from The Free Orchestra from Projectsam. 

The core sounds are BBCSO Pro and I quite like the sound of it. Infinite Series add the total flexibility and expresison where needed.


----------



## muziksculp

How likely is it for Spitfire Audio to be able to fix some of the issues they currently have in some of their samples, or other issues with the current version of the BBCSO Library ? 

What are the chances they will be able to fix them in the coming months ? Do they still have access, and the ability to setup recording sessions at Maida Vale Studios with the BBCSO Players ? Will they bother doing this even if it was possible, given the extra cost that they will incur ? 

My guess is they are most likely focusing on releasing the AR-1 based modular expansion libraries at this time, rather than fixing issues with BBCSO Samples, although these are few, but they deserve to be fixed, given that the BBCSO library is very popular.


----------



## Ivan Duch

Maybe we could create a comprehensive list of potential fixes and send them to them? It would probably help their team, specially with the player or programming issues.

I can imagine re-recording samples being a bit out of the question for all sorts of reasons, though.


----------



## tonalexplorer

jaketanner said:


> I have SY strings 1. And bbc pro and I prefer bbc. Now if I was stuck with the core mix 1 mic, I would be very unhappy.


I'd love if there was a 'community file hub' on Spitfire's 'The Page' site where users could upload their own BBCSO mic mixes and other users could vote on them. Also just putting that out there to the internetverse  

I did some custom mix mixes for *Brass* instruments (mainly cos the Horn(s) Mix 1 and 2 were _messed up_ pre v. 1.2.) and for the *Harp* too (because weirdly, Mix 1 has a _centered_ Harp (gasp!) which I reported to Spitfire didn't match the position of it in the manual's positioning image). However, I'm not super confident on the specifics of mic mixing so it would be good to get second opinions on them!

@jaketanner - I'm now curious what you find wrong with Mix 1 on Strings, if I may ask?


----------



## tonalexplorer

muziksculp said:


> How likely is it for Spitfire Audio to be able to fix some of the issues they currently have in some of their samples, or other issues with the current version of the BBCSO Library ?
> 
> What are the chances they will be able to fix them in the coming months ? Do they still have access, and the ability to setup recording sessions at Maida Vale Studios with the BBCSO Players ? Will they bother doing this even if it was possible, given the extra cost that they will incur ?
> 
> My guess is they are most likely focusing on releasing the AR-1 based modular expansion libraries at this time, rather than fixing issues with BBCSO Samples, although these are few, but they deserve to be fixed, given that the BBCSO library is very popular.


The impression I get from Spitfire's marketing and support is that BBCSO will be an ongoing project for them . I expect the BBCSO partnership wasn't just a one-off recording session thing... and they'll record new content with the players in the future, not to mention them having more non-released recorded samples that's still going thru post. BBCSO is kinda their flagship product now (especially in terms of hitting all marketable tiers of music creators, not just 'pros'), so it would seem smart to me to keep the library 'fresh'.


----------



## tonalexplorer

Ivan Duch said:


> Maybe we could create a comprehensive list of potential fixes and send them to them? It would probably help their team, specially with the player or programming issues.
> 
> I can imagine re-recording samples being a bit out of the question for all sorts of reasons, though.


I hear you on this @Ivan Duch, however, having had a previous career in tech support, publicly managed resources like this (issue trackers, etc.) can be a considerable overhead to manage, not to mention can quickly turn into confusing sources of 'truth', and then it just becomes another source of 'noise' for Spitfire support to wade through, confirm/refute, which ultimately slows them down fixing the things we've reported directly to them.

I do think having a BBCSO issue tracker _managed_ _by Spitfire_ with a view of it visible publicly (maybe on "The Page") is a great idea though! It would save us all (probably) reporting the same issues to them, plus "workarounds" for known issues could be publicly noted which would ultimately lower the duplicate support questions they're getting.


----------



## Fleer

Would also love to see ‘The Page’ have an active community.


----------



## muziksculp

tonalexplorer said:


> I do think having a BBCSO issue tracker _managed_ _by Spitfire_ with a view of it visible publicly (maybe on "The Page") is a great idea though! It would save us all (probably) reporting the same issues to them, plus "workarounds" for known issues could be publicly noted which would ultimately lower the duplicate support questions they're getting.


Good idea, but who is going to convince Spitfire Audio to do this ?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

muziksculp said:


> How likely is it for Spitfire Audio to be able to fix some of the issues they currently have in some of their samples, or other issues with the current version of the BBCSO Library ?
> 
> What are the chances they will be able to fix them in the coming months ? Do they still have access, and the ability to setup recording sessions at Maida Vale Studios with the BBCSO Players ? Will they bother doing this even if it was possible, given the extra cost that they will incur ?
> 
> My guess is they are most likely focusing on releasing the AR-1 based modular expansion libraries at this time, rather than fixing issues with BBCSO Samples, although these are few, but they deserve to be fixed, given that the BBCSO library is very popular.


My opinion is most of the "issues" noted on this forum are overblown (not all, but most - and many are actually asking for a totally different product, not fixes). Spitfire just released a massive update for the library, so they're clearly committed to it (though if you read this forum, you'd be convinced they had abandoned it). So, my suggestion would be to ignore this forum and focus on writing music with BBCSO instead, which is a very capable tool, even in its current form. The demos (both official and otherwise) wouldn't just magically sound as good as they do if the library had a ton of issues or was missing critical things from the product's originally intended design.


----------



## muziksculp

ALittleNightMusic said:


> My opinion is most of the "issues" noted on this forum are overblown (not all, but most - and many are actually asking for a totally different product, not fixes). Spitfire just released a massive update for the library, so they're clearly committed to it (though if you read this forum, you'd be convinced they had abandoned it). So, my suggestion would be to ignore this forum and focus on writing music with BBCSO instead, which is a very capable tool, even in its current form. The demos (both official and otherwise) wouldn't just magically sound as good as they do if the library had a ton of issues or was missing critical things from the product's originally intended design.


Yes, most of the BBCSO issues are minor, and would not stop anyone from writing some wonderful sounding orchestral music. I'm totally aware of that. But, there are a few details that can be improved, and that's all I'm hoping for, that Spitfire Audio will be able to fix them, sooner, or later. I have already reported some samples having issue to their support, they replied that it will be reviewed by their team. I'm Not sure if that meant it will be fixed, or not in the future.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> My opinion is most of the "issues" noted on this forum are overblown (not all, but most - and many are actually asking for a totally different product, not fixes). Spitfire just released a massive update for the library, so they're clearly committed to it (though if you read this forum, you'd be convinced they had abandoned it). So, my suggestion would be to ignore this forum and focus on writing music with BBCSO instead, which is a very capable tool, even in its current form. The demos (both official and otherwise) wouldn't just magically sound as good as they do if the library had a ton of issues or was missing critical things from the product's originally intended design.


I cannot agree with this enough. So much of the critiques are simply a matter of not understanding the philosophy of the sound. 

There's a lot of misinformation about updates too-- with almost 20 since it was released. And yet, I somehow still hear the constant (false) refrain that "they don't fix their libraries" or that they "move on to new libraries and don't update their old ones". 

Spitfire isn't perfect-- no one is-- but as a day 1 customer, I've been very happy with the quality and attention that BBCSO has received, and I use it nearly every day.


----------



## jaketanner

tonalexplorer said:


> I'd love if there was a 'community file hub' on Spitfire's 'The Page' site where users could upload their own BBCSO mic mixes and other users could vote on them. Also just putting that out there to the internetverse


Custom mic mixes are hard to judge on their own since they need to be in context.



tonalexplorer said:


> I'm now curious what you find wrong with Mix 1 on Strings, if I may ask?


It's only "wrong" if it doesn't fit...however, I just don't like the blend much. And the pan is not very defined either. I find it a bit harsh at times...But I wouldn't say wrong...just glad I have options.


----------



## DovesGoWest

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just curious, are you using BBCSO Core/Pro as your Orchestral Template's Foundation, and are also using some other libraries to complement it ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


My Cubase template was started by using one of the Spitfire provided ones (its the one where instruments are split into legato\longs\shorts\pizz\fx) to this i then added other groups i use for different types of music i produce such as drums\synths\guitars\vox etc. and changed these to follow a similar buss based pattern as the BBCSO stuff.

In terms of orchestral the BBCSO is my core that everything is based around and i have added to this in areas where it lacked the sound i wanted. So for instance i got the 8Dio century brass try pack to get an some epic brass, and i just purchased Areia Lite and added that to the template again following the same pattern as the BBCSO core. This was to give me some more aggresive short strings when compared to the BBC ones.

Everything in the template is disabled apart from the group buses (as you can disable them in Cubase), all of the plugins of various instrument and group tracks are also turned off rather than disabled (so they take no memory at all). 

All i have to do when composing is enable the track for the instrument\articulation type and then subsequently the enable the plugins on the track and associated group buses.


----------



## jaketanner

tonalexplorer said:


> I hear you on this @Ivan Duch, however, having had a previous career in tech support, publicly managed resources like this (issue trackers, etc.) can be a considerable overhead to manage, not to mention can quickly turn into confusing sources of 'truth', and then it just becomes another source of 'noise' for Spitfire support to wade through, confirm/refute, which ultimately slows them down fixing the things we've reported directly to them.
> 
> I do think having a BBCSO issue tracker _managed_ _by Spitfire_ with a view of it visible publicly (maybe on "The Page") is a great idea though! It would save us all (probably) reporting the same issues to them, plus "workarounds" for known issues could be publicly noted which would ultimately lower the duplicate support questions they're getting.


For what it's worth, I did start a BBC "fix" thread...suggestions.




__





Feature Requests* for BBC Pro and Core *(Please Read 1st post)


I would say all libraries have issues. It’s the scope of the BBC that makes it more vulnerable to having more issues. It’s not one instrument, it’s the whole orchestra. Also it’s SF’s own GUI So it’s not perfect yet...but we can get it there. Lol Good luck!




vi-control.net


----------



## DovesGoWest

Ok not sure if this is an issue so would rather get others input before reporting this.

I have a melodic line played by solo piccolo, solo flute, solo oboe, solo clarinet & solo bassoon all playing in their respective octave\range. Now if i switch from using solo instruments to using solo piccolo, flutes a3, oboes a3, clarinets a3 & bassoons a3 would you expect there to be an increase in volume.

They are all playing the exact same line with expression set to 100% and dynamics set to 80%, to me i am comparing 5 instrument playing vs 13 instruments playing.


----------



## DovesGoWest

tonalexplorer said:


> I'd love if there was a 'community file hub' on Spitfire's 'The Page' site where users could upload their own BBCSO mic mixes and other users could vote on them. Also just putting that out there to the internetverse
> 
> I did some custom mix mixes for *Brass* instruments (mainly cos the Horn(s) Mix 1 and 2 were _messed up_ pre v. 1.2.) and for the *Harp* too (because weirdly, Mix 1 has a _centered_ Harp (gasp!) which I reported to Spitfire didn't match the position of it in the manual's positioning image). However, I'm not super confident on the specifics of mic mixing so it would be good to get second opinions on them!
> 
> @jaketanner - I'm now curious what you find wrong with Mix 1 on Strings, if I may ask?


I hadn't noticed about that Harp but your correct post v1.2 the Harp is still centered in mix1 where as the manual shows it positioned on the left. The celeste is exactly the same as well, so it seems in Mix1 at least (i only have core) all of the percussion as been positioned in the center at the back.


----------



## crubbish

Biggest disappointment for me (only own core) is that they seemed to sell this as a system that would get loads of educational materials produced for it. Which seems to have never happend


----------



## mybadmemory

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just curious, are you using BBCSO Core/Pro as your Orchestral Template's Foundation, and are also using some other libraries to complement it ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


Yes!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

crubbish said:


> Biggest disappointment for me (only own core) is that they seemed to sell this as a system that would get loads of educational materials produced for it. Which seems to have never happend


They have hours and hours of content using the BBCSO library in practice or with the actual BBCSO on their YouTube. What were you expecting?


----------



## Nate Johnson

DovesGoWest said:


> Ok not sure if this is an issue so would rather get others input before reporting this.
> 
> I have a melodic line played by solo piccolo, solo flute, solo oboe, solo clarinet & solo bassoon all playing in their respective octave\range. Now if i switch from using solo instruments to using solo piccolo, flutes a3, oboes a3, clarinets a3 & bassoons a3 would you expect there to be an increase in volume.
> 
> They are all playing the exact same line with expression set to 100% and dynamics set to 80%, to me i am comparing 5 instrument playing vs 13 instruments playing.


There should be an audible difference in timbre, but not necessarily volume. I’m working on a piece in Core right now and I keep switching back and forth between solo and a3 woodwinds trying to figure out what I like the sound of better. Theres definitely a difference, but not necessarily in volume.


----------



## Nate Johnson

Nate Johnson said:


> There should be an audible difference in timbre, but not necessarily volume. I’m working on a piece in Core right now and I keep switching back and forth between solo and a3 woodwinds trying to figure out what I like the sound of better. Theres definitely a difference, but not necessarily in volume.


Maybe post a comparison? I can do the same. Although I am in the middle of downloading Pro right now😁


----------



## Wedge

muziksculp said:


> Yes, most of the BBCSO issues are minor, and would not stop anyone from writing some wonderful sounding orchestral music. I'm totally aware of that. But, there are a few details that can be improved, and that's all I'm hoping for, that Spitfire Audio will be able to fix them, sooner, or later. I have already reported some samples having issue to their support, they replied that it will be reviewed by their team. I'm Not sure if that meant it will be fixed, or not in the future.


Yes, most of the issues are minor. But the RAM usage problem on Windows is not (I don't know if the same problem exists on Macs but it happens every time on both my Windows machines, one Ryzen and the other Intel ). I have gone back and forth with support for over a month and sent over thirty screen shots explaining it, and it occurs in both Studio One pro5 and Cubase 10.5.

If you change the preload amount, I used 9000. Look at RAM usage. Then close and reload the project and look again. This time without reloading the project, up the preload to 9001 and look yet again. On one project I cleared up 8GB of RAM by upping the preload in session, I upped a by a thousand freed up about 6.5GB in another test. This RAM that I consider wasted isn't shown in Windows Task Manager as being used by the DAW (Studio One Pro 5 or Cubase 10), it doesn't show what is using the RAM at all, just that it's not available under the Performance tab> RAM. After changing the preload in session if I play the track RAM usage only goes up by 0.2 GBs. And if you add total RAM used before the DAW is open to the DAW's usage you get the total amount of RAM used, but only if you change the preload size in session. Upon reloading the project they will not match at again and multiple GBs will be used for no apparent reason. The whole piece (it's a small tester) only uses about 24GBs of RAM. So just nearly a third of the RAM used by the Spitfire Plugin seems wasted. I think that's a pretty big problem. I've been surprised I haven't seen more about it here. But you're right, most of the bugs I've seen posted are a bit over blown. I hope they fix the plugin and the other bugs since it really is a nice sounding library.


----------



## DovesGoWest

Nate Johnson said:


> There should be an audible difference in timbre, but not necessarily volume. I’m working on a piece in Core right now and I keep switching back and forth between solo and a3 woodwinds trying to figure out what I like the sound of better. Theres definitely a difference, but not necessarily in volume.


Yes I agree with timbre the a3 have like a chorus effect which I expect. The is no difference in volume though which I don’t agree with, having 3 players has to be louder than a solo


----------



## dcoscina

Has anyone happened to do a nice template of BBCSO Pro or Core for Studio One 5 perhaps? @Epicomposer did a great one for Abbey Road 1 (bought it earlier this week).


----------



## José Herring

ALittleNightMusic said:


> My opinion is most of the "issues" noted on this forum are overblown (not all, but most - and many are actually asking for a totally different product, not fixes). Spitfire just released a massive update for the library, so they're clearly committed to it (though if you read this forum, you'd be convinced they had abandoned it). So, my suggestion would be to ignore this forum and focus on writing music with BBCSO instead, which is a very capable tool, even in its current form. The demos (both official and otherwise) wouldn't just magically sound as good as they do if the library had a ton of issues or was missing critical things from the product's originally intended design.


Couldn't agree more with this. After that last release it's nearly as great of a library as anything else on the market. They out did themselves. Any of the complaints I've read now are just people not understanding or incapable of using the library. 

It's a bread a butter type library but oh it does that so well. It's not a hyped up trailer sounding library though some creative users and doing just that with it. 

People will complain I guess but at this point as regards to BBCSO those complaints can be ignored. You want that FFF brass library, get Caspian or Nucleus.


----------



## José Herring

dcoscina said:


> Has anyone happened to do a nice template of BBCSO Pro or Core for Studio One 5 perhaps? @Epicomposer did a great one for Abbey Road 1 (bought it earlier this week).


There is one I've downloaded it. I just can't remember where it came from. If you have trouble locating it let me know and I'll dig it up for you.


----------



## CT

José Herring said:


> Couldn't agree more with this. After that last release it's nearly as great of a library as anything else on the market. They out did themselves. Any of the complaints I've read now are just people not understanding or incapable of using the library.
> 
> It's a bread a butter type library but oh it does that so well. It's not a hyped up trailer sounding library though some creative users and doing just that with it.
> 
> People will complain I guess but at this point as regards to BBCSO those complaints can be ignored. You want that FFF brass library, get Caspian or Nucleus.


Where did you get that picture of me?


----------



## Trash Panda

José Herring said:


> People will complain I guess but at this point as regards to BBCSO those complaints can be ignored. You want that FFF brass library, get Caspian or Nucleus.


I wouldn’t call Nucleus brass FFF, most sections seem to get up to FF with a few capping at MF-F. Caspian or Angry Brass hit FFF for sure though. The cuivre patches on trumpets, for example, sound more powerful than the AI trumpets at high dynamics.


----------



## Fleer

One of the reasons I’m so fond of BBCSO is the absence of FFF articulations.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

dcoscina said:


> Has anyone happened to do a nice template of BBCSO Pro or Core for Studio One 5 perhaps? @Epicomposer did a great one for Abbey Road 1 (bought it earlier this week).


Have a look here:




__





Spitfire BBCSO Template for Studio One, #oneorchestra


Hello All! I have ported the BBCSO template to PreSonus Studio One :) I hope it is useful for all Studio One users out there. It can be found in the attachment. Normally it should also open in the smaller version of Studio One: Studio One Artist. Does anyone happen to have this version and...




vi-control.net


----------



## Hooo

jaketanner said:


> That doesn't show a mic preset name though. Now if I can set an entire mic preset to a MIDI CC, that would be great...but still, there should be a name display so that we know what mic set we are on...I create ones that are similar and being that there are 4 pages of mics, it's not easy to tell based off the first page.


In the DAW you use, do midi files not show their file name also? Or is there an option that you can turn on? Then you could just check by the name of that midi file which sets your mic preset (which you've dragged into your timeline in an appropriate spot) rather than even opening the plugin? Just thinking up a work around here


----------



## Nate Johnson

According to the manual, the Spitfire Player's memory display at the top is showing 'memory used per that instance.' Color me crazy, but I've got 30+ instances, each reading over 8+gb right now on my 64gb machine (and its running fine). All instances will change the reading if I adjust only one instance (ie add more mic signals).

Is the memory usage actually displaying cumulative usage of all instances within my session?


----------



## DovesGoWest

Nate Johnson said:


> According to the manual, the Spitfire Player's memory display at the top is showing 'memory used per that instance.' Color me crazy, but I've got 30+ instances, each reading over 8+gb right now on my 64gb machine (and its running fine). All instances will change the reading if I adjust only one instance (ie add more mic signals).
> 
> Is the memory usage actually displaying cumulative usage of all instances within my session?


I am sure the figure displayed is shared between all instance of the player in your session.


----------



## Nate Johnson

DovesGoWest said:


> I am sure the figure displayed is shared between all instance of the player in your session.


Yeah, its gotta be. 

Anyways, I finally just finished switching this entire session over to Pro instances (from Core). I'm already super impressed with the string leaders - in the session I'm working on, I was easily able to replace a violin from Solo Strings with the Violin 1 Leader. Awesome!


----------



## Nate Johnson

Has anyone recreated Jake Jackson's Mix 1 preset with the individual mics? Share the settings if you have? The manual tells you which mics (tree/out/amb/bal + mids (on non-strings), but not levels. 

I like Mix 1, I just want to experiment dialing back the wet.


----------



## DovesGoWest

Nate Johnson said:


> Has anyone recreated Jake Jackson's Mix 1 preset with the individual mics? Share the settings if you have? The manual tells you which mics (tree/out/amb/bal + mids (on non-strings), but not levels.
> 
> I like Mix 1, I just want to experiment dialing back the wet.


Whilst i dont have pro and only have core, i read that Mix1 isnt Jake's mix it didnt say who did Mix1 but Mix2 is the Jake Jackson mix.

Also it would be great if when you selected Mix1 or 2 it could ask you if you wanted to set all the other mics to the level and which is on\off. This is like what @jaketanner raised in that you cannot save your mic's\levels as a preset, if you could then Mix1 and 2 would just be presets you could load up in the pro version.


----------



## yiph2

DovesGoWest said:


> Whilst i dont have pro and only have core, i read that Mix1 isnt Jake's mix it didnt say who did Mix1 but Mix2 is the Jake Jackson mix.
> 
> Also it would be great if when you selected Mix1 or 2 it could ask you if you wanted to set all the other mics to the level and which is on\off. This is like what @jaketanner raised in that you cannot save your mic's\levels as a preset, if you could then Mix1 and 2 would just be presets you could load up in the pro version.


Where did you get that from?


----------



## Nate Johnson

DovesGoWest said:


> Whilst i dont have pro and only have core, i read that Mix1 isnt Jake's mix it didnt say who did Mix1 but Mix2 is the Jake Jackson mix.
> 
> Also it would be great if when you selected Mix1 or 2 it could ask you if you wanted to set all the other mics to the level and which is on\off. This is like what @jaketanner raised in that you cannot save your mic's\levels as a preset, if you could then Mix1 and 2 would just be presets you could load up in the pro version.


Yeah, the manual definitely says Mix 1 and 2 are Jake Jackson’s


----------



## DovesGoWest

yiph2 said:


> Where did you get that from?


I stand corrected, just had a look in the manual and your correct it says both mixes are by JJ i thought i had seen something saying that Mix1 wasnt JJ


----------



## antanasb

As far as I am aware JJ did everything in BBCSO library. From recording to mixing, including both of the mic mixes.

In one video with Guy Mitchelmore he even said that all of the relative volumes are right for all of the instruments and sections... How cool is that?


----------



## TeamLeader

Nate Johnson said:


> Has anyone recreated Jake Jackson's Mix 1 preset with the individual mics? Share the settings if you have? The manual tells you which mics (tree/out/amb/bal + mids (on non-strings), but not levels.
> 
> I like Mix 1, I just want to experiment dialing back the wet.


Jakes mixes are usually much more than just the Mics that SF offers. He has physical gear, other software and his normal way of working. Our engineers have never been able to duplicate his wonderful blends with just the SF mics.


----------



## Nate Johnson

TeamLeader said:


> Jakes mixes are usually much more than just the Mics that SF offers. He has physical gear, other software and his normal way of working. Our engineers have never been able to duplicate his wonderful blends with just the SF mics.


Oh ok, I assumed it was just a preset of the available mics. That makes sense. I’ll build my own!


----------



## Braveheart

I bought Pluginguru Discover/Core Station, using BBCSO inside their Unify plugin, with many special patches. Really amazing! I have the Discover version and will upgrade when the next 40% off sale is available, just to be able to use it with Unify. Too bad they released it just after holiday sale, otherwise I would have bought the Core update at that moment.


----------



## José Herring

Fleer said:


> One of the reasons I’m so fond of BBCSO is the absence of FFF articulations.


Me too. Works great when you don't want to do hyped up music and just hear the orchestra in its natural tones.


----------



## antanasb

José Herring said:


> Me too. Works great when you don't want to do hyped up music and just hear the orchestra in its natural tones.



Though I would love that one more dynamic layer in horns staccatissimo...


----------



## SupremeFist

José Herring said:


> Me too. Works great when you don't want to do hyped up music and just hear the orchestra in its natural tones.


It's actually a great learning tool if you never touch the faders. Then if you ask yourself "why isn't this line cutting through?" the answer is not because the samples in question are "weak" or whatever; it's because the line doesn't have enough support in the orchestration.


----------



## Lazer42

antanasb said:


> Though I would love that one more dynamic layer in horns staccatissimo...


The shorts are a big thing keeping me from giving this library a try, because while I do have find the idea of a "more realistically balanced" orchestral library to be appealing, the shorts do seem genuinely weak from what I have heard.


----------



## antanasb

Lazer42 said:


> The shorts are a big thing keeping me from giving this library a try, because while I do have find the idea of a "more realistically balanced" orchestral library to be appealing, the shorts do seem genuinely weak from what I have heard.



I would not say weak, really. Esp. Trombones. But I can bet that in real life those recorded 4 horns were f-ing loud in the room... However “weak” they sound on the samples..

Though I would love an additional staccato dynamic layer with more edgy, brassy attitude — a la Holst Mars... 

TADADADAM TAM TATATAM!!!


----------



## Lazer42

antanasb said:


> I would not say weak, really. Esp. Trombones. But I can bet that in real life those recorded 4 horns were f-ing loud in the room... However “weak” they sound on the samples..
> 
> Though I would love an additional staccato dynamic layer with more edgy, brassy attitude — a la Holst Mars...
> 
> TADADADAM TAM TATATAM!!!


Weak may not be the word. I just know that from demos I've seen and videos of people going through the library, the brass shorts top out on something that sounds very sort of round and almost mellow, rather than having any kind of the short, "percussive" kind of sound that you often want from shorts - even if you're not going for "Hollywood epic."


----------



## Nate Johnson

Some more thoughts from my first day digging in to Pro (again, coming from a month spent with Core):

- Playing around with all the mics actually starts giving my new fancy computer a run for its money. But this is in a big, still-in-composition-mode-so-I-have-way-too-many-instances-open type session. Once I reign it back in, it’ll be fine. I didn’t even bother scaling the buffer up (currently @256).

- Ironically, I’m finding myself gravitating back towards Mix 1 on most things. It truly just sounds the most natural. When the string leaders are in play, I’ll add the close mic in for a little more intimacy.

- I’ve got my bass clarinet - yay! Quite frankly the best part of going from Core to Pro is all of the extra instruments. String leaders, bass clarinet, bass flute, contrabassoon, etc etc - AWESOME.

- I did discover the weird Celli Leader Legato issue - where the first key press at any dynamic level triggers a loud, hard attack phase before continuing at its intended level. If you continue on from that point, actually playing legato (connecting notes) it doesn’t come back. 

For context, I’m working on a JLA meets Reich style piece that began as an exploration of Albion Neo, Solo Strings and Alternative Strings. Currently, I’converting every one of those instances to BBCSO and adding more instruments. In the end I’m shooting for a pure BBCSO played piece.


----------



## jaketanner

antanasb said:


> In one video with Guy Mitchelmore he even said that all of the relative volumes are right for all of the instruments and sections... How cool is that?


Yes, but the second you implement your own mic mixes, that all goes to hell...levels are WAY off then. Which of course is to be expected.


----------



## jaketanner

DovesGoWest said:


> his is like what @jaketanner raised in that you cannot save your mic's\levels as a preset,


I dug further and there are TWO ways to save presets. One: is the overall PATCH preset, then there is a MIC preset that is so obscurely places in the left corner next to the patch button...they're like up and down arrows. That is where you can save mic presets to work globally on whatever instrument.


----------



## CT

Nate Johnson said:


> When the string leaders are in play, I’ll add the close mic in for a little more intimacy.


Just be aware that Mix 1 already includes the close mics, so you're doubling up on that signal which might not be the best approach.


----------



## Nate Johnson

Mike T said:


> Just be aware that Mix 1 already includes the close mics, so you're doubling up on that signal which might not be the best approach.


Ack. Yeah. I’ll have to screw around with other mic choices to achieve the goal. Although I’m not hearing any phasing or other weirdness doing it this way.

Someone earlier said that Mix 1 was not only a mic mix but an actual mix with hardware processing, etc - so it couldn’t even be rebuilt with in the SA player.


----------



## jaketanner

Nate Johnson said:


> Ironically, I’m finding myself gravitating back towards Mix 1 on most things. It truly just sounds the most natural.


I find this to be the opposite. Try starting with (strings) tree about 70%, outriggers 100%, close about 85%...that will be your base, then bring in some additional mics to add some body...some to try: Spill FULL (last to the right), maybe some ambient or side mics, but just a little to give some warmth. Another good one to add more "room" is the balcony mic...this will set the sound further back...good for winds and brass to add that depth. The MIX 1 position is a bit tricky because I have no idea if it's the same mic mixes for all instruments, or curated and rebalanced for different instruments. But either way, it doesn't allow for any sound alteration because as mentioned, you can't just add any mic you want to MIX 1, since it already uses certain mics. (manual has details as to which). In comparison to Core, Pro is worlds apart in sound possibilities.


----------



## Nate Johnson

jaketanner said:


> I find this to be the opposite. Try starting with (strings) tree about 70%, outriggers 100%, close about 85%...that will be your base, then bring in some additional mics to add some body...some to try: Spill FULL (last to the right), maybe some ambient or side mics, but just a little to give some warmth. Another good one to add more "room" is the balcony mic...this will set the sound further back...good for winds and brass to add that depth. The MIX 1 position is a bit tricky because I have no idea if it's the same mic mixes for all instruments, or curated and rebalanced for different instruments. But either way, it doesn't allow for any sound alteration because as mentioned, you can't just add any mic you want to MIX 1, since it already uses certain mics. (manual has details as to which). In comparison to Core, Pro is worlds apart in sound possibilities.


Yeah, the only downside is building a custom mic mix costs so much more in ram. But I’ll keep fiddling on a fresh session (so far I’ve just been ripping apart an existing piece). But I do like what I’m hearing you say!

I suppose I could cut down on ram if I ditch all other articulations per instance...


----------



## jaketanner

Nate Johnson said:


> Someone earlier said that Mix 1


i think they meant MIX 2...MIX 1 I was able to rebuild quite closely using the mics available...I haven't tried MIX 2 because i won't need that sound.


----------



## DovesGoWest

Mike T said:


> Just be aware that Mix 1 already includes the close mics, so you're doubling up on that signal which might not be the best approach.


Yeah your right ,without knowing exactly which mics go into a mix you could potentially have problems. Doesn’t it say in the manual that mix 1 doesn’t have spill mics


----------



## DovesGoWest

Nate Johnson said:


> Yeah, the only downside is building a custom mic mix costs so much more in ram. But I’ll keep fiddling on a fresh session (so far I’ve just been ripping apart an existing piece). But I do like what I’m hearing you say!
> 
> I suppose I could cut down on ram if I ditch all other articulations per instance...


Why not create your own mix and save it, then when composing just use mix1. Once you finish composing switch to your own mix and bounce the track down to audio. That way you won’t be eating ram with custom mixes

I do similar with inserts , I have them all setup in my template to create the sound I want but then deactivated. Then I only turn them on before I bounce the track to audio so I don’t have them all loading the cpu while I compose


----------



## jaketanner

Nate Johnson said:


> Yeah, the only downside is building a custom mic mix costs so much more in ram. But I’ll keep fiddling on a fresh session (so far I’ve just been ripping apart an existing piece). But I do like what I’m hearing you say!
> 
> I suppose I could cut down on ram if I ditch all other articulations per instance...


I have a session now, and I have 64 gigs of RAM, using those 4 mics...I have 50 tracks total, but about 10 of them are Kontakt instruments and I am at about 76% of my RAM, even though in the BBC player it states that I am only using 12gigs...I am on Pro Tools which is not as efficient at all. I may try running through VEP to see if this makes any difference. I truly wish they had a mic render like SINE...that would be the BEST thing they can do...LOL However, worst case, the TREE mic sound fabulous all around...so using that alone would be just fine to write with, then I can add mics when ready to render.


----------



## Nate Johnson

DovesGoWest said:


> Why not create your own mix and save it, then when composing just use mix1. Once you finish composing switch to your own mix and bounce the track down to audio. That way you won’t be eating ram with custom mixes





jaketanner said:


> I have a session now, and I have 64 gigs of RAM, using those 4 mics...I have 50 tracks total, but about 10 of them are Kontakt instruments and I am at about 76% of my RAM, even though in the BBC player it states that I am only using 12gigs...I am on Pro Tools which is not as efficient at all. I may try running through VEP to see if this makes any difference. I truly wish they had a mic render like SINE...that would be the BEST thing they can do...LOL However, worst case, the TREE mic sound fabulous all around...so using that alone would be just fine to write with, then I can add mics when ready to render.


Yeah I hear you - I’m using Bitwig which also lacks a bit in efficiency. I’m gobring it all in to Logic for kicks and giggles. I betcha it’ll be better.

but yeah, writing with one mic or mix 1 is probably the way to go. I’m always looking for ways to [force] separate my processes anyways!


----------



## mallux

jaketanner said:


> i think they meant MIX 2...MIX 1 I was able to rebuild quite closely using the mics available...I haven't tried MIX 2 because i won't need that sound.


Would be nice if there was a button to set the individual mics to MIX1 or MIX2 positions, to take the guesswork out of it and provide a sensible starting point for fiddling.


----------



## Nate Johnson

I gotta say, after spending the day in the Spitfire Player, opening up Kontakt again was...ewww


----------



## jaketanner

Nate Johnson said:


> Yeah I hear you - I’m using Bitwig which also lacks a bit in efficiency. I’m gobring it all in to Logic for kicks and giggles. I betcha it’ll be better.
> 
> but yeah, writing with one mic or mix 1 is probably the way to go. I’m always looking for ways to [force] separate my processes anyways!


The pro BBC should really default to the tree mic, just like most all other SF libraries...NOT mix 1.


----------



## DovesGoWest

mallux said:


> Would be nice if there was a button to set the individual mics to MIX1 or MIX2 positions, to take the guesswork out of it and provide a sensible starting point for fiddling.


Yeah if they provided preset files for mix1 and 2 then you could just load them up


----------



## jaketanner

mallux said:


> Would be nice if there was a button to set the individual mics to MIX1 or MIX2 positions, to take the guesswork out of it and provide a sensible starting point for fiddling.


They mention it in the manual. 

"This is specifically a mix of the Decca Tree, Outriggers, Ambient, Balcony, Mids (not on the Strings!), and Close signals." 

You can do this and get close, then make your own mix preset and go from there if you wish. Mix 2 adds EQ and processing., so not really replicable with just the mics.


----------



## mallux

jaketanner said:


> They mention it in the manual.
> 
> "This is specifically a mix of the Decca Tree, Outriggers, Ambient, Balcony, Mids (not on the Strings!), and Close signals."


Sure, but assuming it's not 100% of each, that's a helluva lot of different mixes even with just those 6.



jaketanner said:


> You can do this and get close, then make your own mix preset and go from there if you wish. Mix 2 adds EQ and processing., so not really replicable with just the mics.


 Yeah that would be a problem.


----------



## Nate Johnson

@jaketanner would you have the same exact mic mix for all instruments, or completely tailor a mic mix to each instrument (or section)?

to that end - we know Mix 1 has a different mix for strings (no mid mics), so can we assume different mic level combos for each section?


----------



## jaketanner

mallux said:


> Sure, but assuming it's not 100% of each, that's a helluva lot of different mixes even with just those 6.
> 
> 
> Yeah that would be a problem.


you;d be surprised how close you can get...start at 100% of ambient and close then add ambient and others...you can get it so close that you won't be able to tell.. But MIX 1, is a bit muddy as a whole...has some build-up in the lows...maybe too much balcony? Don't know, but you can try those , then start omitting mics and see what works for you arrangement.


----------



## jaketanner

Nate Johnson said:


> @jaketanner would you have the same exact mic mix for all instruments, or completely tailor a mic mix to each instrument (or section)?
> 
> to that end - we know Mix 1 has a different mix for strings (no mid mics), so can we assume different mic level combos for each section?


I have not idea what they did with the mixes...but if they use the same MIX for say all strings, then a different for all brass...that's an issue. I, for instance, have a custom mix for violins and violas, then start adding in some close and less ambient for the lows as they can sound a bit undefined if too much room...so I do a custom. But this is also based off what you need...and the shorts are also different from the longs. This is typical mixing though of a live orchestra...mics are always being automated throughout...rarely a set and forget thing. Then you need to decide on the mics that work best for the leaders...to fit in with your custom ensemble mics..LOL


----------



## Nate Johnson

jaketanner said:


> I have not idea what they did with the mixes...but if they use the same MIX for say all strings, then a different for all brass...that's an issue. I, for instance, have a custom mix for violins and violas, then start adding in some close and less ambient for the lows as they can sound a bit undefined if too much room...so I do a custom. But this is also based off what you need...and the shorts are also different from the longs. This is typical mixing though of a live orchestra...mics are always being automated throughout...rarely a set and forget thing. Then you need to decide on the mics that work best for the leaders...to fit in with your custom ensemble mics..LOL


Ha, I was afraid you were going to say that. I guess this is why I’ll only be using this library from now on - there just won’t be time to screw with any other variables! Lol

thanks for your input man, definitely helps to get my brain focused here...


----------



## dcoscina

I'm using BBCSO on a new RPG score and it sounds perfectly big and expansive.


----------



## jaketanner

Anyone using BBCSO with Catalina OS?


----------



## styledelk

jaketanner said:


> Anyone using BBCSO with Catalina OS?


Yes. And Big Sur. Both fine?


----------



## jaketanner

styledelk said:


> Yes. And Big Sur. Both fine?


Are you say Catalina is ok then? or are you also asking?


----------



## styledelk

Saying. Both fine for me.


----------



## Fleer

Yep, here too. Catalina, that is.


----------



## jaketanner

Thanks guys.


----------



## jamie8

jaketanner said:


> Anyone using BBCSO with Catalina OS?


yup works great except for the bugs introduced in 1.2. really do wish they would fix those.. its been awhile now, but as far as stability on catalina its great.


----------



## jaketanner

jamie8 said:


> yup works great except for the bugs introduced in 1.2. really do wish they would fix those.. its been awhile now, but as far as stability on catalina its great.


What bugs? I haven't noticed any yet. And cool about Catalina.


----------



## jononotbono

So... Is Catalina safe?


----------



## jamie8

jaketanner said:


> What bugs? I haven't noticed any yet. And cool about Catalina.


well... the transpose bug for one , i have pro and it is confirmed spitfire is aware and is apparently working on a fix , try transposing up or down one octave say -12 and the octave will repeat either one higher or lower the last octave on your keyboard it didn't use to do this ,.also this happens in the abby road one plugin 1.05 latest update as well as missing samples in aroof . it seems to be plugin based and not sample library based so both aroof and bbc do this. alsoBBCSO Pro ver. 1.20 , Vlns 1 Sul-Tasto , Playing E4, F4 produced this thumpy sound.


----------



## Saxer

jaketanner said:


> Anyone using BBCSO with Catalina OS?


Yepp... no problem.


----------



## jaketanner

jamie8 said:


> well... the transpose bug for one , i have pro and it is confirmed spitfire is aware and is apparently working on a fix , try transposing up or down one octave say -12 and the octave will repeat either one higher or lower the last octave on your keyboard it didn't use to do this ,.also this happens in the abby road one plugin 1.05 latest update as well as missing samples in aroof . it seems to be plugin based and not sample library based so both aroof and bbc do this. alsoBBCSO Pro ver. 1.20 , Vlns 1 Sul-Tasto , Playing E4, F4 produced this thumpy sound.


Ah ok. Thanks.


----------



## jaketanner

Oh crap...just noticed that Big Sur is already out...so makes no sense to go to Calina then right? Does any one know if it's a big difference between Catalina and Big Sur? Meaning if things work with Catalina, would they work with Big Sur or are there other issues to take into consideration? Thanks.


----------



## SupremeFist

jaketanner said:


> Oh crap...just noticed that Big Sur is already out...so makes no sense to go to Calina then right? Does any one know if it's a big difference between Catalina and Big Sur? Meaning if things work with Catalina, would they work with Big Sur or are there other issues to take into consideration? Thanks.


Been wondering this myself as am still in Mojave; AFAIK the only thing preventing me from going to Big Sur is that Korg doesn't have the nanokontrol drivers ready yet....


----------



## jaketanner

SupremeFist said:


> Been wondering this myself as am still in Mojave; AFAIK the only thing preventing me from going to Big Sur is that Korg doesn't have the nanokontrol drivers ready yet....


Ah..I have the Nano, but not using at the moment...but I will starting in mid March when I redo my setup. Thanks...


----------



## Alex Fraser

SupremeFist said:


> Been wondering this myself as am still in Mojave; AFAIK the only thing preventing me from going to Big Sur is that Korg doesn't have the nanokontrol drivers ready yet....


Just a quick one on that. As far as I’m aware, since Catalina if you’re only using the nano kontrol for basic cc stuff (and the editor) then the Korg driver is no longer a requirement.


----------



## SupremeFist

Alex Fraser said:


> Just a quick one on that. As far as I’m aware, since Catalina if you’re only using the nano kontrol for basic cc stuff (and the editor) then the Korg driver is no longer a requirement.


Oh cool, I'll check that out, thanks!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Alright, alright. Fine. I cracked and brought the damn thing. 490 pages later..






Edit: One hour long download later + quick play... this thing is witchcraft. Faders left at zero and it all just blends. Late to the party I know, but wow. Never I have used a library that simply "gives back" as you add the instruments. Nice that you can leave the dynamics to do the heavy lifting. Early days but I’m pleased so far.


----------



## yiph2

Alex Fraser said:


> Just a quick one on that. As far as I’m aware, since Catalina if you’re only using the nano kontrol for basic cc stuff (and the editor) then the Korg driver is no longer a requirement.


Oh cool, is there a tutorial for this? I can't seem to use it at all with Logic 10.5 (I think they had problems with it?)


----------



## Alex Fraser

yiph2 said:


> Oh cool, is there a tutorial for this? I can't seem to use it at all with Logic 10.5 (I think they had problems with it?)


I don't think so! The nano is so cheap but the tradeoff is the setup is a Wild West. There's a few posts already on the forum somewhere. 👍


----------



## jaketanner

Alex Fraser said:


> Alright, alright. Fine. I cracked and brought the damn thing. 490 pages later..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: One hour long download later + quick play... this thing is witchcraft. Faders left at zero and it all just blends. Late to the party I know, but wow. Never I have used a library that simply "gives back" as you add the instruments as much as this.


BBC is fantastic, however I can't imagine having only MIX 1...I have pro and literally never use MIX 1...it pales in comparison to what you can achieve with the other mic positions.


----------



## antanasb

jaketanner said:


> BBC is fantastic, however I can't imagine having only MIX 1...I have pro and literally never use MIX 1...it pales in comparison to what you can achieve with the other mic positions.



Please.. Do not.. 

Such words are very painful... For the wallet...


----------



## jaketanner

antanasb said:


> Please.. Do not..
> 
> Such words are very painful... For the wallet...


Sorry. But we’ll worth it.


----------



## antanasb

jaketanner said:


> Sorry. But we’ll worth it.



Dammit...

Well... As BBC Pro has reached 40% discount level already, I started to think about it. But additional costs in SSD and RAM still keep me from seriously considering it.

Maybe Cubase Pro first, then PC upgrade, then BBC...

I think BBC Pro upgrade is a better choice than the Abbey somehow..


----------



## jaketanner

antanasb said:


> Dammit...
> 
> Well... As BBC Pro has reached 40% discount level already, I started to think about it. But additional costs in SSD and RAM still keep me from seriously considering it.
> 
> Maybe Cubase Pro first, then PC upgrade, then BBC...
> 
> I think BBC Pro upgrade is a better choice than the Abbey somehow..


Definitely upgrade the other things first. But do upgrade at some point.


----------



## JDK88

Alex Fraser said:


> Alright, alright. Fine. I cracked and brought the damn thing. 490 pages later..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: One hour long download later + quick play... this thing is witchcraft. Faders left at zero and it all just blends. Late to the party I know, but wow. Never I have used a library that simply "gives back" as you add the instruments. Nice that you can leave the dynamics to do the heavy lifting. Early days but I’m pleased so far.


It's magical how it sounds better as you add more instruments. Usually it's the other way around.


----------



## Lazer42

antanasb said:


> Dammit...
> 
> Well... As BBC Pro has reached 40% discount level already, I started to think about it. But additional costs in SSD and RAM still keep me from seriously considering it.
> 
> Maybe Cubase Pro first, then PC upgrade, then BBC...
> 
> I think BBC Pro upgrade is a better choice than the Abbey somehow..


What do you mean it has reached 40% discount level already?


----------



## CT

Alex Fraser said:


> Alright, alright. Fine. I cracked and brought the damn thing. 490 pages later..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: One hour long download later + quick play... this thing is witchcraft. Faders left at zero and it all just blends. Late to the party I know, but wow. Never I have used a library that simply "gives back" as you add the instruments. Nice that you can leave the dynamics to do the heavy lifting. Early days but I’m pleased so far.


Big mistake man, it is bad!


----------



## Nadav

Lazer42 said:


> What do you mean it has reached 40% discount level already?


Yep, got core for $220 which is a good deal for me, however another $380 for pro is too much in my opinion, extra mics can be nice but mix1 sounds good to me, and it's 600+GB!! it should pay me rent taking that much space.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Mike T said:


> Big mistake man, it is bad!


😅 I feel I should assemble a list of grievances at this stage. Isn’t that the done thing?


----------



## Nate Johnson

jononotbono said:


> So... Is Catalina safe?


Yeah man, Catalina over here with all the usual suspects. Rock solid!


----------



## Markrs

Nadav said:


> Yep, got core for $220 which is a good deal for me, however another $380 for pro is too much in my opinion, extra mics can be nice but mix1 sounds good to me, and it's 600+GB!! it should pay me rent taking that much space.


You do get extra instruments and the sections leaders as well. I agree it is a lot extra and that Core really is the best bang for buck price point. I got Pro and I am very happy with it, but I felt Core was excellent as well


----------



## Nate Johnson

Alex Fraser said:


> Alright, alright. Fine. I cracked and brought the damn thing. 490 pages later..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: One hour long download later + quick play... this thing is witchcraft. Faders left at zero and it all just blends. Late to the party I know, but wow. Never I have used a library that simply "gives back" as you add the instruments. Nice that you can leave the dynamics to do the heavy lifting. Early days but I’m pleased so far.


I caved and upgraded a week ago - easily the best library I’ve ever played with!


----------



## SupremeFist

Alex Fraser said:


> Alright, alright. Fine. I cracked and brought the damn thing. 490 pages later..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: One hour long download later + quick play... this thing is witchcraft. Faders left at zero and it all just blends. Late to the party I know, but wow. Never I have used a library that simply "gives back" as you add the instruments. Nice that you can leave the dynamics to do the heavy lifting. Early days but I’m pleased so far.


Just what I felt when I got it. I do find myself wishing Spitfire patches were al niente so I didn't even have to touch cc11 either...


----------



## Nadav

Got it a bit wrong, it was an extra $330 on top of core (during the 40% sale). Sure it has some extras but it really is for the top professionals who already have a ton of ram and ssd space and just got to have all the Maida Vale goodness they can get.


----------



## jaketanner

I can totally understand the point of Mix 1 being "good enough" but it's not...LOL 

But seriously, *IF* you have the space and *IF* you have the RAM and *IF* you have the CPU to handle pro...there is a big difference...MIX 1 is extremely limited and also as a whole has some harshness and mud build up. 

But not to force anyone to get pro...LOL but Pro is where the library really shines. The other mics might be overkill for many, but the option of controlling the room ambience is important to me, as well as the additional instruments.


----------



## Page Lyn Turner

jaketanner said:


> I can totally understand the point of Mix 1 being "good enough" but it's not...LOL
> 
> But seriously, *IF* you have the space and *IF* you have the RAM and *IF* you have the CPU to handle pro...there is a big difference...MIX 1 is extremely limited and also as a whole has some harshness and mud build up.
> 
> But not to force anyone to get pro...LOL but Pro is where the library really shines. The other mics might be overkill for many, but the option of controlling the room ambience is important to me, as well as the additional instruments.


Hi, just a question, is mix-1 from BBC Pro similar to BBC core's one mic setting? Thanks


----------



## styledelk

SitilkerX said:


> Hi, just a question, is mix-1 from BBC Pro similar to BBC core's one mic setting? Thanks



They are the same.


----------



## Nadav

Yeah it definitely has some good extras, I'm just saying that from a value standpoint. You can probably get more for that money elsewhere. Regarding mix1, maybe my ears are not as well trained but it sounds just right to me, either way I don't think I can do a better job then Jake Jackson, but for anyone who has the skills for it then he's pro enough for the pro.


----------



## jaketanner

SitilkerX said:


> Hi, just a question, is mix-1 from BBC Pro similar to BBC core's one mic setting? Thanks


Yes exactly. In pro you also get a mix 2 which for many things is more useful.


----------



## jaketanner

Nadav said:


> Yeah it definitely has some good extras, I'm just saying that from a value standpoint. You can probably get more for that money elsewhere. Regarding mix1, maybe my ears are not as well trained but it sounds just right to me, either way I don't think I can do a better job then Jake Jackson, but for anyone who has the skills for it then he's pro enough for the pro.


Well keep in mind, Jake Jackson did not mix the mic position as he did in Mix 2 of the pro. Mix 1 is simply a blend of the available mics in pro so anyone can actually achieve the same mix. It’s meant as a RAM saver, because to get the same mic mix as Mix 1, the RAM footprint would literally be at least three times the size. This is the only thing I’m struggling with. And Pro Tools does not handle the ram well at all. Secondly, JJ mixed the blend as a general “all-purpose” patch. It simply does not work for every situation. But is Core a bargain? Hell yeah. Is Pro better? For me it’s a necessity.


----------



## Nadav

I just feel I'll be fiddling with it for a long time never actually getting it to sound much better then what it already was and just being short a few hundred bucks and a few hundred gigabytes. But I agree that It's very good for those who wants to play with the Maida Vale space.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> BBC is fantastic, however I can't imagine having only MIX 1...I have pro and literally never use MIX 1...it pales in comparison to what you can achieve with the other mic positions.


I'm pretty happy with the BBCSO after the last update. Most of the main issues I had with the library were fixed so I find it brilliant now! Mix 1 and Mix 2 are good and most of the time I start on this due to how much ram multiple mics use with the BBCSO but I also would not want to have just the mix 1 mic position.


----------



## Markrs

Nadav said:


> I just feel I'll be fiddling with it for a long time never actually getting it to sound much better then what it already was and just being short a few hundred bucks and a few hundred gigabytes. But I agree that It's very good for those who wants to play with the Maida Vale space.


I use Mix 1 or 2 (I prefer 2 normally) initially when composing then look to use the mics later on, when I am trying to get a better mix. I agree that there is nothing wrong with keeping the cash and enjoying Core, as it is really great.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Look at you lot, trying to up-sell me already. 😅

Core is fine for now. I don’t have the storage for pro even if I wanted it. At some point down the line maybe, when this thread reaches 800 pages..


----------



## Joe_D

Alex Fraser said:


> At some point down the line maybe, when this thread reaches 800 pages..


you mean next week?


----------



## CT

SupremeFist said:


> Just what I felt when I got it. I do find myself wishing Spitfire patches were al niente so I didn't even have to touch cc11 either...


This is a really frustrating issue for me with pretty much all libraries, and one of the last glaringly fake things that sticks out when playing along with real recordings to test for any such obvious incongruities. Releases need to be handled better, somehow. There's room for innovation there.

For a while, I used a script (courtesy of NoamL) which tied CC11 to CC1 in a more limited range so CC11 didn't totally bottom out, but allowed greater flexibility to fade down when ending phrases. Problem with that is, it makes the dynamic range of the library overall too wide. Whatever people's complaints may be about the timbral dynamic scope of BBCSO, the actual loudness levels are pretty accurate from top to bottom, and messing with that just introduces another type of weirdness.


----------



## JDK88

Pro version is just overkill for me. I don't like massive 500+GB libraries eating up space and RAM and taking forever to load. Now if there was something in-between Core and Pro. I would consider it.


----------



## antanasb

jaketanner said:


> I can totally understand the point of Mix 1 being "good enough" but it's not...LOL


Well... But it is really good, offering a very good and balanced sound. Indeed, it is not for every case and taste, but shooting from the hip, general orchestral sound in less than 30 GB for 220€? Really, really good..



I mean, of course Pro is more flexible, but Core is really good enough... (In my opinion)



jaketanner said:


> Well keep in mind, Jake Jackson did not mix the mic position as he did in Mix 2 of the pro. Mix 1 is simply a blend of the available mics in pro so anyone can actually achieve the same mix.


And it indeed is JJ's mix. Well, at least according to the 29-th page in the BBC Pro Manual:




And some YT videos. There is one really good where he talks live quite extensively with Guy Mitchelmore and then covers also the BBC project.


----------



## jaketanner

antanasb said:


> Well... But it is really good, offering a very good and balanced sound. Indeed, it is not for every case and taste, but shooting from the hip, general orchestral sound in less than 30 GB for 220€? Really, really good..
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, of course Pro is more flexible, but Core is really good enough... (In my opinion)
> 
> 
> And it indeed is JJ's mix. Well, at least according to the 29-th page in the BBC Pro Manual:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And some YT videos. There is one really good where he talks live quite extensively with Guy Mitchelmore and then covers also the BBC project.



The mix 1, even in that audio clip is very muddy in the low mids. This is expected considering the mics used. Probably nothing an EQ can't fix, however you are stuck with the pan of the mics that were used.

As for JJs "mix"...its NOT a true mix like MIX 2 is in pro, where he actually used EQ, processing and some outboard...Mix 1 is simply a "blend"...as stated...this can easily be achieved by anyone with Pro. They should reword it to be it's JJ's mic balance that he chose to be a universal starting point.


----------



## antanasb

jaketanner said:


> The mix 1, even in that audio clip is very muddy in the low mids. This is expected considering the mics used. Probably nothing an EQ can't fix, however you are stuck with the pan of the mics that were used.
> 
> As for JJs "mix"...its NOT a true mix like MIX 2 is in pro, where he actually used EQ, processing and some outboard...Mix 1 is simply a "blend"...as stated...this can easily be achieved by anyone with Pro. They should reword it to be it's JJ's mic balance that he chose to be a universal starting point.


Well, we are getting in to semantics now a bit, but "blend" and "mix", don't they mean the same, literally?

And I am curious, since when "mixing" is only when you use "EQ, processing and some outboard"?

I understand your logic, but then stemming from it you could also find a way to reproduce the mix2 using stock plugins basically in any DAW, as they are full of emulations of vintage gear nowadays. Thus, as you can do it yourself, with varying degrees of ease, they are both "blends" now? Or what?


----------



## jaketanner

antanasb said:


> Well, we are getting in to semantics now a bit, but "blend" and "mix", don't they mean the same, literally?


Well...they should actually say a balance of the mics...but "mix" is different than balance or mic blend..."mixing" is technically balancing BUT...it also entails processing such as EQ, compression, reverbs...etc....this is in MIX 2, not mix 1 in this case (BBC). Mix 1 is a blended balance or mics that are leveled...any which way you put it as long as it's understood that there is no processing on it, as in Mix 2. Mix 2 has JJ's personal touch if I understood it correctly, and would be pointless to try and replicate it since no one knows what he used...sure you can come close but why? 

I mix professionally, and I wouldn't say that all I do is balance and call it a mix...I think when we are dealing with MIC mixes, the term "mix" means mic blend (balance). Mix 1 is a RAM saver...a pre-blended mix of the mics to get you started. So you can get close with Pro, and then add or remove mics from there as needed at a cost of intense RAM usage. 

Basically, once you start adding processing it is no longer a blend (balance). 

I know we are talking about the same thing.


----------



## CT

What you all want is Mix 3.


----------



## antanasb

jaketanner said:


> "mixing" is technically balancing


Couldn't have said better myself!


jaketanner said:


> BUT...it also entails processing such as EQ, compression, reverbs...etc....


Totally agree..


jaketanner said:


> this is in MIX 2, not mix 1 in this case (BBC). Mix 1 is a blended balance or mics that are leveled...any which way you put it as long as it's understood that there is no processing on it, as in Mix 2.


Either way, it is a mix as you have pointed out yourself. Or did you just turn inclusion ("also") to exclusion now?


jaketanner said:


> Mix 2 has JJ's personal touch if I understood it correctly


So you are implying that personal touch only translates if you use processing -- e.g. compressors (which are basically fancy volume controls), eq's (which are also fancy volume controls for certain frequencies)?


jaketanner said:


> sure you can come close but why?


Couldn't the same be applied to Mix1 also then?


jaketanner said:


> I know we are talking about the same thing.


I am just having a great time in this nit-picky discussion with you. I just hope that I am not the only one having the good time!


----------



## Alex Fraser

I don’t think Jake likes mix 1... 😅
Just reading between the lines..


----------



## ridgero

I would like to choose the Default Mic postion(s), but it’s not possible.

I requested it via support over one year ago, still no answer. Maybe we all can request that.

I also requested that Mic positions can be changed for all opened instances at the same time.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I can't seem to find chimes or similar. Is that a BBCSO thing or are they generally not a feature of the orchestra percussion section?


----------



## antanasb

Alex Fraser said:


> I can't seem to find chimes or similar. Is that a BBCSO thing or are they generally not a feature of the orchestra percussion section?


That is literally the one thing that the BBC orchestra is really missing...

I really hope they will have some time to record it later and add introduce it to the party...


----------



## Alex Fraser

antanasb said:


> That is literally the one thing that the BBC orchestra is really missing...
> 
> I really hope they will have some time to record it later and add introduce it to the party...


Ah, thanks. I'll start a rage-thread then.. 😉
I love the image of a single percussion player armed with a solitary set of windchimes... surrounded by a zillion mics in Madia Vale. Worth it.


----------



## yiph2

Isn't there Tubular Bells?


----------



## antanasb

Bells is not the same as






Chimes...


----------



## yiph2

antanasb said:


> Bells is not the same as
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chimes...


Well...







But yea, pretty strange they have no mark trees


----------



## antanasb

yiph2 said:


>


Okay, so @Alex Fraser were you asking about Mark Tree or Tubular Bells?

Word "chimes" just brings unnecessary ambiguity...


----------



## Alex Fraser

antanasb said:


> Okay, so @Alex Fraser were you asking about Mark Tree or Tubular Bells?
> 
> Word "chimes" just brings unnecessary ambiguity...


Good call. I was talking about a Mark Tree. And apologies for the confuddlement.








Mark tree - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## jaketanner

Alex Fraser said:


> I don’t think Jake likes mix 1... 😅
> Just reading between the lines..


I think having pro, mix 1 won’t get much use. But if it’s all I had, oh well then. LOL.


----------



## jaketanner

antanasb said:


> So you are implying that personal touch only translates if you use processing -- e.g. compressors (which are basically fancy volume controls), eq's (which are also fancy volume controls for certain frequencies)?


I get that balancing strings with many mics is not easy for many people and more importantly, it’s a quick starting point. I think Mix 1 was made to be “universal”, not necessarily what JJ would have done personally. I think Mix 2, IS what he would do in most cases when mixing. 




antanasb said:


> Couldn't the same be applied to Mix1 also then?


Well if you have pro, you would want to creat mix 1 so you can start tailoring it to your needs. Maybe less spill mic or less tree and more close...whatever. But mix2 is not really easily achievable so why recreate it if it already exists. You may want to copy the tone for your own needs, but mix 2 might be more useable as a final. I don’t think mix 2 is mix 1 with processing. I think it was JJs personal touch in this case to use what he wanted. That’s my impression of it, could be wrong.

I love these debates. Something is always learned from the back and forth or a different way of looking at things. ). 

btw, if you have pro, use the horn Cuivre patch with mix 1 and go from low to high dynamics. Then do the same with only the tree mic and then other mics and you can see how much the sound changes. I wouldn’t want to be stuck with the brightness of mix 1 only.


----------



## Braveheart

I'll upgrade to Core, then get it mixed and master by Cloudbounce. Nobody will notice in Spotify


----------



## Fleer

Spotted Dick!


----------



## Fleer

Come to think of it, BBCSO seems pretty appropriate to play Mike Oldfield’s hit.


----------



## gzapper

There isn't a way to copy mixer settings between instances of the BBCSO plug, is there? If you want to change mic settings do you really have to go through every instrument and change it manually?


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

gzapper said:


> There isn't a way to copy mixer settings between instances of the BBCSO plug, is there? If you want to change mic settings do you really have to go through every instrument and change it manually?


You can save/load a "mixer preset" (on the left side of the mixer).
But I believe you have to load it on each instance individually.


----------



## gzapper

Manuel Stumpf said:


> You can save/load a "mixer preset" (on the left side of the mixer).
> But I believe you have to load it on each instance individually.


That helps a bit, was hoping that 'copy all settings to all spitfire plugins' might do it, but no such luck.


----------



## jaketanner

BTW, is there any way to adjust the tremolo speed for strings? I am guessing there is no measured tremolo, but wondering if anyone found a way.


----------



## ennbr

jaketanner said:


> BTW, is there any way to adjust the tremolo speed for strings? I am guessing there is no measured tremolo, but wondering if anyone found a way.


Yes press the button in the center of the big dial and change it from reverb to vibrato


----------



## Zedcars

Fleer said:


> Come to think of it, BBCSO seems pretty appropriate to play Mike Oldfield’s hit.


I’m guessing you don’t mean Moonlight Shadow?? Such an awful awful song.


----------



## Zedcars

I actually prefer Mix 1 over Mix 2. I started using Mix 2 when I first bought the library and worked with it a lot creating a 15 minute piece. Then switched over to Mix 1 to compare. I found it sounded much more natural and less processed. I agree it has some issues with muddiness which isn’t that hard to fix with a bit of EQ. To me Mix 2 is too wide, but I suppose it depends on what type of music you are making. It’s great to have the choice.


----------



## jaketanner

ennbr said:


> Yes press the button in the center of the big dial and change it from reverb to vibrato


Wow. Didn’t see that as an option. But will check again. Thanks. )


----------



## ennbr

And if you have a controller that supports it Vibrato is CC21


----------



## Alex Fraser

Hey all. I've created a template for my own use and I thought I'd share here. The template includes some goodies not found in the Spitfire official ones (yet.) I know there's probably a few of these around now but if you find it useful, great!

Designed for Core.
Articulation sets for all instruments, including extra legato and new muted brass.
New Logic icons where available.
Un-tuned percussion split up into separate tracks. Just because.
Articulation sets tweaked from originals by MADD Creations - send some props if you can.
It's a template designed for writing. No media routings, groups or other fancy stuff. Feel free to use/adapt to taste.

Download template.

It's my first time sharing one of these files, so if I've been a doughnut and missed something out, please shout!


----------



## jaketanner

ennbr said:


> And if you have a controller that supports it Vibrato is CC21


Thanks for the info.


----------



## jaketanner

ennbr said:


> Yes press the button in the center of the big dial and change it from reverb to vibrato


Just tried this, and as I remembered yesterday, vibrato is greyed out. is it not on yours?


----------



## CT

I think there is a miscommunication about the meaning of tremolo and vibrato.


----------



## SupremeFist

Mike T said:


> I think there is a miscommunication about the meaning of tremolo and vibrato.


Tell that to guitarists with their "tremelo bars".


----------



## Theladur

SupremeFist said:


> Tell that to guitarists with their "tremelo bars".


And in addition to that, there are "vibrato" controls on Fender guitar amps, which actually activate tremolo.
Thank you Leo Fender.


----------



## ennbr

jaketanner said:


> Just tried this, and as I remembered yesterday, vibrato is greyed out. is it not on yours?


Yes it looks greyed out until you click


----------



## jaketanner

ennbr said:


> Yes it looks greyed out until you click


does nothing for me...you sure you are in the tremolo articulation?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Doubt vibrato an option for tremolo articulations... I think the streamers have been crossed between posts?


----------



## ennbr

jaketanner said:


> does nothing for me...you sure you are in the tremolo articulation?


Sorry I was in wrong articulation Tremolo only has Reverb and Release


----------



## Alex Fraser

ennbr said:


> Sorry I was in wrong articulation Tremolo only has Reverb and Release


Well, glad that’s cleared the confusion!

Now. I want to know where the tremolo speed for the pizzicato trumpets can be found.


----------



## Evans

Came here for the pizzigato. Left with pizza and a cat.


----------



## Brasart

Alex Fraser said:


> Well, glad that’s cleared the confusion!
> 
> Now. I want to know where the tremolo speed for the pizzicato trumpets can be found.


You have to map the ponticello scale to your touchscreen's FTP port


----------



## jaketanner

So then no tremolo control. Kinda sucks. I feel the trem in the CB s a bit slower than could be.


----------



## icecoolpool

jaketanner said:


> So then no tremolo control. Kinda sucks. I feel the trem in the CB s a bit slower than could be.


OK, I just tried a workaround trick. I transposed the midi for the Basses down 3 semi-tones then increased the pitch in the player up 3 semi-tones, increasing not only the pitch - but playback speed as well - of the instrument. The result: faster tremolo. I preferred the sound of the original trem but this may help you get you closer to what you´re looking for.


----------



## jaketanner

icecoolpool said:


> OK, I just tried a workaround trick. I transposed the midi for the Basses down 3 semi-tones then increased the pitch in the player up 3 semi-tones, increasing not only the pitch - but playback speed as well - of the instrument. The result: faster tremolo. I preferred the sound of the original trem but this may help you get you closer to what you´re looking for.


Cool...thanks. so Basically i can also run this through a pitch plugin...Pro Tools has one that works by increasing or decreasing speed. Might Try it..


----------



## jaketanner

ok...here is a tip that may or may not work for you guys that have Pro...I included the screenshot...

So crazy thing: My 2018 mini is maxed out, fully loaded...however, with SF's "default" setting, I am running into problems. So after much agony, I came up with the following settings and it works pretty smoothly, while also saving a ton of RAM and some CPU. 

I am running BBC off a Samsung T7...NVMe, so a bit faster than a standard SSD.

Hope this helps in case you are having issues, especially RAM, it's worth a shot even if you have a slower SSD.


----------



## Fleer

I’m still on T1/T3/T5 Samsungs. Does T7 speed things up even more?


----------



## jaketanner

Fleer said:


> I’m still on T1/T3/T5 Samsungs. Does T7 speed things up even more?


About twice. It’s an NVMe drive. But you need to use it with its proper connection.


----------



## Fleer

Damn. Got to get those.


----------



## Fleer

Come to think of it, the main reason why I’m so enamored with BBCSO is that I have many of the world’s most famous musicians at my fingertips. There’s no other orchestral library that does this. Sure, developers like Embertone provide us with specific instrumental libs like Joshua Bell’s violin, which is pretty amazing on its own, but an entire orchestra filled to the rim with world famous musicians? Only BBCSO!


----------



## tonalexplorer

jaketanner said:


> So then no tremolo control. Kinda sucks. I feel the trem in the CB s a bit slower than could be.


I think note velocity corresponds to tremolo speed for the string patches.


----------



## jaketanner

tonalexplorer said:


> I think note velocity corresponds to tremolo speed for the string patches.


oh...will check this out, thanks


----------



## jaketanner

tonalexplorer said:


> I think note velocity corresponds to tremolo speed for the string patches.


nope...doesn't change at all. Not even with dynamics.


----------



## jaketanner

Noticed something very strange and bad...please help. So how do you get expression back to CC 11? If I right click, it just shows me MIDI learn...I can't find anywhere to change the CC back to 11 without defaulting the patch. Took me a while to figure out why the levels weren't changing...LOL


----------



## mybadmemory

jaketanner said:


> Noticed something very strange and bad...please help. So how do you get expression back to CC 11? If I right click, it just shows me MIDI learn...I can't find anywhere to change the CC back to 11 without defaulting the patch. Took me a while to figure out why the levels weren't changing...LOL


Just learn it back to 11?


----------



## jaketanner

mybadmemory said:


> Just learn it back to 11?


I don't have a controller set to 11. Would be a pain to do...Reading through the manual now, but I can't find anything...this should be such an easy thing to do. Somehow it got overlooked.


----------



## Zedcars

jaketanner said:


> Noticed something very strange and bad...please help. So how do you get expression back to CC 11? If I right click, it just shows me MIDI learn...I can't find anywhere to change the CC back to 11 without defaulting the patch. Took me a while to figure out why the levels weren't changing...LOL


If you click on the 3 dots in the top right you can reset the CC mappings from there. If you just want to reset one CC then I’m not sure how from within the plugin itself.


----------



## jaketanner

Zedcars said:


> If you click on the 3 dots in the top right you can reset the CC mappings from there. If you just want to reset one CC then I’m not sure how from within the plugin itself.


Yeah, that is my next step...but we shouldn't have to reset all mappings. What if i have a bunch set to control articulations...they
d all reset? Makes no sense...but in this case I may be able to get away with it.


----------



## mybadmemory

jaketanner said:


> I don't have a controller set to 11. Would be a pain to do...Reading through the manual now, but I can't find anything...this should be such an easy thing to do. Somehow it got overlooked.


How do you control CC11 then? Don’t you have any physical mod wheel or slider at all? Just drawing it in?


----------



## Zedcars

jaketanner said:


> Yeah, that is my next step...but we shouldn't have to reset all mappings. What if i have a bunch set to control articulations...they
> d all reset? Makes no sense...but in this case I may be able to get away with it.


Only the loaded instrument I believe.

Yeah, that does seem a bit of an oversight. Should be able to just right click and reset the one controller, but doesn’t seem like you can. Not in front of my DAW at the moment so can’t try.


----------



## jaketanner

mybadmemory said:


> How do you control CC11 then? Don’t you have any physical mod wheel or slider at all? Just drawing it in?


For now yes...I am in the middle of a move, so my controller is packed up and just using the mod wheel at the moment. What I do at times is link the expression to the mod wheel, then I go in and just raise or lower the overall expression once it's written...but I didn't do it in this case. I just reset it and it's fine, but this is a major flaw.


----------



## Zedcars

I guess they just think you can send the CC externally so that’s how you’d do it but not as easy as resetting with right click or whatever.


----------



## jaketanner

Zedcars said:


> Only the loaded instrument I believe.
> 
> Yeah, that does seem a bit of an oversight. Should be able to just right click and reset the one controller, but doesn’t seem like you can. Not in front of my DAW at the moment so can’t try.


You can't...so you can't even re assign CC numbers.


----------



## Zedcars

jaketanner said:


> You can't...so you can't even re assign CC numbers.


I mean I guess a workaround is, if you don’t want to reset all CCs (and don’t have that specific CC# as a fader) just input the value in the DAW track, right click to learn CC in the plugin and then play to send it. (Sorry if that’s obvious! Lol)


----------



## jaketanner

Zedcars said:


> I mean I guess a workaround is, if you don’t want to reset all CCs (and don’t have that specific CC# as a fader) just input the value in the DAW track, right click to learn CC in the plugin and then play to send it. (Sorry if that’s obvious! Lol)


tried that...but assigning the CC in the DAW (already assigned to expression), doesn't send that to the plugin to learn...you need to physically move a controller. Just strange. May need to bring this up to support.


----------



## SupremeFist

Have you tried temporarily converting your mod wheel's cc1 to cc11 with a midi plugin on the track and learning it that way?


----------



## jaketanner

SupremeFist said:


> Have you tried temporarily converting your mod wheel's cc1 to cc11 with a midi plugin on the track and learning it that way?


I could do that. I shouldn’t have to though. LOL. I just reset the CCs. Luckily I didn’t program any custom CC for this patch.


----------



## Alex Fraser

It surprised me at first, but it's no show stopper. I have a couple of tricksy scripts that remap and duplicate CC controls anyway (the "Combo Control ™ - patent pending - that sends dynamics and vibrato together with custom offsets for lazy days, for example.)

Anyway, best practice (imho) is to set this stuff up once how you like it with scripts, maps etc and save as a Logic patch.


----------



## jaketanner

Alex Fraser said:


> It surprised me at first, but it's no show stopper. I have a couple of tricksy scripts that remap and duplicate CC controls anyway (the "Combo Control ™ - patent pending - that sends dynamics and vibrato together with custom offsets for lazy days, for example.)
> 
> Anyway, best practice (imho) is to set this stuff up once how you like it with scripts, maps etc and save as a Logic patch.


I am on pro Tools.


----------



## Fleer

jaketanner said:


> I am on pro Tools.


You wish


----------



## jaketanner

Fleer said:


> You wish


don't get it.. LOL


----------



## Fleer

jaketanner said:


> don't get it.. LOL


Stoopid joke, nm


----------



## Alex Fraser

Fleer said:


> Stoopid joke, nm



Well, at post #9899, probably everything there is to be said, has been said! 10,000 posts would be quite something..


----------



## ThomasJ.Curran

Alex Fraser said:


> Well, at post #9899, probably everything there is to be said, has been said! 10,000 posts would be quite something..


Only 100 more posts to go! We can do it 😂


----------



## Alex Fraser

ThomasJ.Curran said:


> Only 100 more posts to go! We can do it 😂


Perhaps if I suggest I quite like the GUI, I could bag at least 50 replies telling me I'm wrong? 😂


----------



## jaketanner

Alex Fraser said:


> Perhaps if I suggest I quite like the GUI, I could bag at least 50 replies telling me I'm wrong? 😂


I actually don't have many issues with it..


----------



## Zedcars

Fleer said:


> Stoopid joke, nm


I wasn’t sure if he meant he didn’t get the joke, or he was advising you not to get Pro Tools. I think I used it once over 10 years ago and, as a Cubase user, I was confused why anyone would bother with it as it seemed far less capable — at least as far as MIDI editing went. I guess the MIDI side of things is greatly improved now? I still wouldn’t want to learn a new DAW. I have Logic and barely touch that. Tried Ableton once too and hated the interface.

Anyway, I seem to have strayed way off topic lol


----------



## Lady Gaia

jaketanner said:


> I actually don't have many issues with it..


It's _functional_ but not exactly streamlined. The amount of repetitive work required to tell it I use MIDI channels rather than notes for keyswitching? Absurd. Likewise when it comes to choosing what I want displayed by default as the third visible CC adjustment. It would be similarly painful if I wanted to use non-default CC assignments.


----------



## jaketanner

Lady Gaia said:


> It's _functional_ but not exactly streamlined. The amount of repetitive work required to tell it I use MIDI channels rather than notes for keyswitching? Absurd. Likewise when it comes to choosing what I want displayed by default as the third visible CC adjustment. It would be similarly painful if I wanted to use non-default CC assignments.


It certainly has its faults...but I think there's room to add features and streamline.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I spent a day (and several coffees) going through the entire orchestra, adding maps and tweaking key switches etc. It’s all templated now and as I’m using Core, I’m unlikely to need to open the plugin GUI for a while..

..which is why I never quite understood all the hand wringing over it - although I concede the pro mics still require using the player.

#9907


----------



## jaketanner

Alex Fraser said:


> I spent a day (and several coffees) going through the entire orchestra, adding maps and tweaking key switches etc. It’s all templated now and as I’m using Core, I’m unlikely to need to open the plugin GUI for a while..
> 
> ..which is why I never quite understood all the hand wringing over it - although I concede the pro mics still require using the player.
> 
> #9907


I couldn't get by with just core.


----------



## Fleer

jaketanner said:


> I couldn't get by with just core.


Same here.


----------



## Zedcars

Apparently flat-earthers only ever buy Pro because they don’t believe Core exists.

Yes, it’s bad and I’m so ashamed I wrote it and pressed the “post reply” button.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I’m happy with ‘Core for now. I don't really need it for work. It’s a treat for me, essentially. But what a treat..


----------



## companyofquail

I’m buying core next time there is 40 percent off. Seems impossible to beat at that price(for my preferences). And then it’s only a matter of time before another 40 percent off sale and I get Pro.


----------



## giwro

companyofquail said:


> I’m buying core next time there is 40 percent off. Seems impossible to beat at that price(for my preferences). And then it’s only a matter of time before another 40 percent off sale and I get Pro.


Exactly what I did... bought core in the spring, upgraded to pro during the BF/Xmas sale. Alas, I’ve been too busy to use it much yet.


----------



## Fleer

... or update your sig


----------



## mopsiflopsi

I'm gonna put this here in case anyone on Windows 10 is experiencing dropouts and performance issues with BBCSO:








Optimizing Your Computer for Audio - Windows 10


Why would I need to optimize Windows 10? If your computer's audio has: Pops Clicks Audio Dropouts Distorted Audio Noise High CPU usage PC Optimization Guide for Windows 10 Welcome to the Window...




support.presonus.com





It's a Studio One article but a lot of it applies to any Windows setup. For me turning off Windows Defender live threat protection and shutting down other background apps (Steam, Dropbox) made a huge difference. I'm able to play without any dropouts now from the 860 EVO it came in.


----------



## jaketanner

mopsiflopsi said:


> I'm able to play without any dropouts now from the 860 EVO it came in.


Are you using Core? How many tracks?


----------



## mopsiflopsi

jaketanner said:


> Are you using Core? How many tracks?



Using Pro, Mix 1 only. I have about 12 tracks that are playing at the same time fairly constantly, and a few other parts that come and go. Haven't tested beyond that yet. Prior to following the optimization advice, I was having dropouts with half that many tracks.


----------



## jaketanner

mopsiflopsi said:


> Using Pro, Mix 1 only. I have about 12 tracks that are playing at the same time fairly constantly, and a few other parts that come and go. Haven't tested beyond that yet. Prior to following the optimization advice, I was having dropouts with half that many tracks.


I am on Mac and using pro Tools, and with several mics per track (about 50) I had RAM issues and sluggish performance. Something doesn't register properly with the RAM, because the GUI shows about 12 gigs, and PT says I'm about maxed out and I have 64 gigs. SO I went and changed all mics and narrowed it down to about 2 per instance, and I am back down to about 60% RAM...I will make changes once I bounce to audio, but sucks that we can't really have the sound we like while creating.


----------



## SupremeFist

jaketanner said:


> I am on Mac and using pro Tools, and with several mics per track (about 50) I had RAM issues and sluggish performance. Something doesn't register properly with the RAM, because the GUI shows about 12 gigs, and PT says I'm about maxed out and I have 64 gigs. SO I went and changed all mics and narrowed it down to about 2 per instance, and I am back down to about 60% RAM...I will make changes once I bounce to audio, but sucks that we can't really have the sound we like while creating.


tbf that's not really SF's fault is it, it just means you need a 128Gb machine to use all the mics you like.  (I only have Core as yet so zero issues with 40-50 tracks on my Mini, purrs along at ≈25-30% CPU...)


----------



## jaketanner

SupremeFist said:


> tbf that's not really SF's fault is it, it just means you need a 128Gb machine to use all the mics you like.  (I only have Core as yet so zero issues with 40-50 tracks on my Mini, purrs along at ≈25-30% CPU...)


Well it's SF's fault if the RAM is not reported properly, been going back and forth with support to try and figure this out. 12 gigs from the GUI should not yield over 80% of my RAM...I think it's not optimized for Pro Tools. Don't have this issue with Kontakt based libraries from SF or anyone else. Only encountered it with BBC...but I have a work around. Tree mic is actually very decent, and the outriggers are very nice also, so between those, I can still use one mic if I had to until render. But even with 1 mic, the GUI shows around 4-5 gigs...still reports back to PT with about 60% RAM usage...


----------



## jaketanner

ok...just noticed a huge low end rumble on the viola legato patch...extends after the release and during the performance, similar to Cinestrings. Anyone else get that? I am using the Tree and Outriggers. No reverb at all...you have really crank the gain, but I noticed because I have a limiter as an experiment...sounds terrible...just adds mud throughout. Happens continuously, not just when finished. I stopped it short so you can clearly hear it.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

jaketanner said:


> ok...just noticed a huge low end rumble on the viola legato patch...extends after the release and during the performance, similar to Cinestrings. Anyone else get that? I am using the Tree and Outriggers. No reverb at all...you have really crank the gain, but I noticed because I have a limiter as an experiment...sounds terrible...just adds mud throughout. Happens continuously, not just when finished. I stopped it short so you can clearly hear it.


Add a high pass EQ if you’re boosting gain that much.


----------



## jaketanner

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Add a high pass EQ if you’re boosting gain that much.


Of course NOW that I know. Although full disclosure I prefer the dirty samples from NSS...but at least I know I have to do something. I was wondering why on earth things still didn't sound very clear...LOL BUT the strings sound nice and warm so maybe this is a byproduct of not cleaning the samples, which I suppose is a good thing. 

I am also not boosting gain, I had processing on the master bus...there is absolutely nothing on the track...still MIDI. I mentioned to boost it if you don't have any processing on it so you can hear it. Just wasn't expected.

Further investigating this rumble and noise...there are clicking sounds as well after the release and on the violins too...assuming it's the whole string section. I used the close mic and there is no room ambience that rings out as in the MIX 1 or outriggers yet the rumble and clicks are there. 

Anyway...filter away...LOL


----------



## muziksculp

Any BBCSO users that are adding/mixing in some Spitfire AR-1F sounds with it ?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

jaketanner said:


> Of course NOW that I know. Although full disclosure I prefer the dirty samples from NSS...but at least I know I have to do something. I was wondering why on earth things still didn't sound very clear...LOL BUT the strings sound nice and warm so maybe this is a byproduct of not cleaning the samples, which I suppose is a good thing.
> 
> I am also not boosting gain, I had processing on the master bus...there is absolutely nothing on the track...still MIDI. I mentioned to boost it if you don't have any processing on it so you can hear it. Just wasn't expected.
> 
> Further investigating this rumble and noise...there are clicking sounds as well after the release and on the violins too...assuming it's the whole string section. I used the close mic and there is no room ambience that rings out as in the MIX 1 or outriggers yet the rumble and clicks are there.
> 
> Anyway...filter away...LOL


Every recording is going to have some sort of noise floor, so if you boost enough, you'll expose it (a limiter is boosting it). Also, these are not robots that were recorded but actual humans, so there are very likely going to be very subtle noises in every recording (somebody breathing in or out, slightly shift in the chair, moving their foot slightly, etc). They are also playing in a building that will have its own noises (A/C, outdoor noises, etc). Point is, if you go looking for it, you're going to find these types of "imperfections" (unless the developer has heavily processed the samples beforehand - which Spitfire's philosophy is not to do). It would be the same if you recorded in AR1 for example (maybe even worse if you couldn't afford Simon Rhodes). I don't think we should ever expect (or even want) some sort of lifeless unrealistic recording in a sort of vacuum lacking of any humanity.


----------



## Alex Fraser

That noise is partly the reason I buy Spitfire stuff. It's nice to be reminded that there's real musicians in a real room. Bring on the squeaks/rattles/shuffles.


----------



## jaketanner

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I don't think we should ever expect (or even want) some sort of lifeless unrealistic recording in a sort of vacuum of any humanity.


Right, never said that...I prefer no processing, but I also prefer to know ahead of time. Never really noticed with other SF libraries, BUT...even SCS has it on (some) samples..not all. At least it's not as bad as Cinestrings...LOL


----------



## jaketanner

Alex Fraser said:


> That noise is partly the reason I buy Spitfire stuff. It's nice to be reminded that there's real musicians in a real room. Bring on the squeaks/rattles/shuffles.


I was actually surprised to hear it TBH. I didn't expect it for some reason, as overall it sounds like a clean recording, BUT...it is good to know they didn't process anything.


----------



## Fleer

And it’s noise made by BBCSO musicians.


----------



## jaketanner

Fleer said:


> And it’s noise made by BBCSO musicians.


Yes...however, the issue is that while musicians make noise, they make DIFFERENT noises...with samples you get the same noise over and over again. Although it's pretty meaningless since you an't hear the clicks too much...but I noticed with the piccolo. It's not a big deal as long as you treat it as a live recording and not a polished sample.


----------



## Fleer

There’s always Zynaptiq or iZotope if you need cleaning up


----------



## daan1412

BBCSO Core is really, really good. I bought it last Black Friday tempted by the discount and didn't expect to use it as much as I do now. Insane value, especially on sale - for that price and library size the amount of instruments and articulations is mind-blowing. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but well - too bad the brass doesn't go louder. I know not every library has to have a fff layer, but at least convincing f is a must. I think it's a legitimate drawback here.

Here's a little piece I finished yesterday, made with Core only:


----------



## Alex Fraser

daan1412 said:


> BBCSO Core is really, really good. I bought it last Black Friday tempted by the discount and didn't expect to use it as much as I do now. Insane value, especially on sale - for that price and library size the amount of instruments and articulations is mind-blowing. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but well - too bad the brass doesn't go louder. I know not every library has to have a fff layer, but at least convincing f is a must. I think it's a legitimate drawback here.
> 
> Here's a little piece I finished yesterday, made with Core only:



Very nice! That provided a welcome distraction from work for a couple of minutes.


----------



## jaketanner

daan1412 said:


> BBCSO Core is really, really good. I bought it last Black Friday tempted by the discount and didn't expect to use it as much as I do now. Insane value, especially on sale - for that price and library size the amount of instruments and articulations is mind-blowing. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but well - too bad the brass doesn't go louder. I know not every library has to have a fff layer, but at least convincing f is a must. I think it's a legitimate drawback here.
> 
> Here's a little piece I finished yesterday, made with Core only:



Does Core not have the Cuivre patches for the brass? They're plenty FF for me at least.


----------



## Lazer42

jaketanner said:


> Does Core not have the Cuivre patches for the brass? They're plenty FF for me at least.


I think it has these patches, but, though I don't have BBCSO and so I could be mistaken in my impression, as someone considering the purchase I have not found this satisfactory. The reason is because in essentially limiting the ff layer to its own patch, it seems it would really limit what it can do.

For example: I wouldn't be able to have a note in a legato phrase crescendo to ff. The bigger one for me is the shorts, which from all the demos I've heard have at their loudest a kind of mellow sound and lack any real semblance of bite to them.


The cuivre patch thing really just sort of reminds me of how Garritan has ff overlays for some of the brass instruments. In other words, it feels like it's something from a much lower quality library than BBCSO is supposed to be - or put differently, it feels like a limitation that shouldn't exist in a library as expensive as BBCSO.


----------



## Brasart

daan1412 said:


> BBCSO Core is really, really good. I bought it last Black Friday tempted by the discount and didn't expect to use it as much as I do now. Insane value, especially on sale - for that price and library size the amount of instruments and articulations is mind-blowing. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but well - too bad the brass doesn't go louder. I know not every library has to have a fff layer, but at least convincing f is a must. I think it's a legitimate drawback here.
> 
> Here's a little piece I finished yesterday, made with Core only:



Very nice piece!


----------



## jaketanner

Lazer42 said:


> I think it has these patches, but, though I don't have BBCSO and so I could be mistaken in my impression, as someone considering the purchase I have not found this satisfactory. The reason is because in essentially limiting the ff layer to its own patch, it seems it would really limit what it can do.
> 
> For example: I wouldn't be able to have a note in a legato phrase crescendo to ff. The bigger one for me is the shorts, which from all the demos I've heard have at their loudest a kind of mellow sound and lack any real semblance of bite to them.
> 
> 
> The cuivre patch thing really just sort of reminds me of how Garritan has ff overlays for some of the brass instruments. In other words, it feels like it's something from a much lower quality library than BBCSO is supposed to be - or put differently, it feels like a limitation that shouldn't exist in a library as expensive as BBCSO.


I do understand about not having the cuivre as part of the main patch, but a crescendo note can be easily done with the longs patch as well. However, not sure you are aware of this, but you can use two patches together or more, and have them assigned with triggers as to how you want them switched. Could be velocity or CC numbers or KS's etc...

As for the shorts...are you referring to any particular instrument? I find the string shorts have a nice bite to them for sure...they get plenty loud. Of course spiccato will not be as loud as staccato, but still a decent volume. The brass might not be as loud as they could be though, so depends on what you are writing. 

I know BBC isn't perfect for sure, and there were decisions made that leave me scratching my head as to why...why not go that extra mile and do it right, but I have come to the conclusion that developers seem to make libraries based off what they perceive they need, and NOT what people actually want. Unless the extra FF layer is not inherent to the actual BBCSO's playing style? not sure. For the little parts that are lacking in BBC, I do have other libraries that I will layer in...still mind boggling why they didn't record an alto flute since they have everything else...LOL but is what it is.


----------



## SupremeFist

daan1412 said:


> BBCSO Core is really, really good. I bought it last Black Friday tempted by the discount and didn't expect to use it as much as I do now. Insane value, especially on sale - for that price and library size the amount of instruments and articulations is mind-blowing. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but well - too bad the brass doesn't go louder. I know not every library has to have a fff layer, but at least convincing f is a must. I think it's a legitimate drawback here.
> 
> Here's a little piece I finished yesterday, made with Core only:



Lovely piece — really shows off the unique warmth and cohesiveness of this orchestra. 🤘🏻


----------



## SupremeFist

jaketanner said:


> I do understand about not having the cuivre as part of the main patch, but a crescendo note can be easily done with the longs patch as well. However, not sure you are aware of this, but you can use two patches together or more, and have them assigned with triggers as to how you want them switched. Could be velocity or CC numbers or KS's etc...


You can switch, but afaik the only way you can swell smoothly into cuivre is by crossfading between the arts on two tracks (which I have done, but would rather not have to).


----------



## dzilizzi

jaketanner said:


> Unless the extra FF layer is not inherent to the actual BBCSO's playing style? not sure.


I'm thinking this is a lot of it. Paul mentioned at one point that the brass was LOUD in the room. It could be this is how the BBC engineer normally records them so they don't overpower the other instruments?


----------



## Wedge

muziksculp said:


> Any BBCSO users that are adding/mixing in some Spitfire AR-1F sounds with it ?


Yes. I almost always use the trumpets and trombones from AR1 with BBCSO. They just sound so much more to my liking than BBCSO's.


----------



## jaketanner

dzilizzi said:


> I'm thinking this is a lot of it. Paul mentioned at one point that the brass was LOUD in the room. It could be this is how the BBC engineer normally records them so they don't overpower the other instruments?


would seem so. This is a library modeled after the BBCSO, so I would have to think it needs to represent them as an orchestra as well...maybe their style just isn't as balls to the wall as some others.


----------



## Wedge

jaketanner said:


> Of course NOW that I know. Although full disclosure I prefer the dirty samples from NSS...but at least I know I have to do something. I was wondering why on earth things still didn't sound very clear...LOL BUT the strings sound nice and warm so maybe this is a byproduct of not cleaning the samples, which I suppose is a good thing.
> 
> I am also not boosting gain, I had processing on the master bus...there is absolutely nothing on the track...still MIDI. I mentioned to boost it if you don't have any processing on it so you can hear it. Just wasn't expected.
> 
> Further investigating this rumble and noise...there are clicking sounds as well after the release and on the violins too...assuming it's the whole string section. I used the close mic and there is no room ambience that rings out as in the MIX 1 or outriggers yet the rumble and clicks are there.
> 
> Anyway...filter away...LOL


Yes I have. I wound up separating a line into two tracks, I can't remember off hand if it was the Viola or the Cello. But if I cut the rumbling when playing in the instruments middle range, when I hit the lower end of the instrument those notes were cut out too. It was a bit disappointing.


----------



## Lazer42

jaketanner said:


> I do understand about not having the cuivre as part of the main patch, but a crescendo note can be easily done with the longs patch as well. However, not sure you are aware of this, but you can use two patches together or more, and have them assigned with triggers as to how you want them switched. Could be velocity or CC numbers or KS's etc...


Thanks for the reply; I appreciate the helpful thoughts. 

In fact I did not realize you could actually set this up with BBCSO. I know with Kontakt you can, butI didn't realize you could set up a custom trigger like that in the SA player. That said, I'm not sure if this really fixes the concern I have, which is not about triggering a different articulation but rather about transitioning a single note into a different dynamic - e.g., in part of a legato (or sustained for that matter) phrase having a note start at mp and crescendo into ff. If you could set up custom cross fades I think that would potentially address this problem nicely, but I imagine that isn't part of the engine. 



jaketanner said:


> As for the shorts...are you referring to any particular instrument? I find the string shorts have a nice bite to them for sure...they get plenty loud. Of course spiccato will not be as loud as staccato, but still a decent volume. The brass might not be as loud as they could be though, so depends on what you are writing.


I'm really only thinking about the brass here. Whether the other instruments have room for improvement in other ways is another question, but as for the dynamic levels and all that it's really just the brass that seem lacking. I'd go a step further and say specifically the horns. I don't need giant Hans Zimmer horn sections, but the horns really do seem to be very mellow even beneath just a regular, "classic" sound. The trumpets, on the other hand, I think are better than the reputation and I think they sound largely workable to me even at higher dynamics. 



jaketanner said:


> I know BBC isn't perfect for sure, and there were decisions made that leave me scratching my head as to why...why not go that extra mile and do it right, but I have come to the conclusion that developers seem to make libraries based off what they perceive they need, and NOT what people actually want. Unless the extra FF layer is not inherent to the actual BBCSO's playing style? not sure. For the little parts that are lacking in BBC, I do have other libraries that I will layer in...still mind boggling why they didn't record an alto flute since they have everything else...LOL but is what it is.


This is the biggest thing that's held me back. I don't expect a perfect library, but I'm a bit worried about getting something that feels like a more expensive version of Garritan Personal Orchestra or something of that sort. There's no question the quality is better than that of course, but at the same time it's little things that give me concerns it may be in some ways like that vs. a more professional, higher quality library like others I am used to working with.


----------



## Alex Fraser

jaketanner said:


> would seem so. This is a library modeled after the BBCSO, so I would have to think it needs to represent them as an orchestra as well...maybe their style just isn't as balls to the wall as some others.


I think you’re right, Jake. The BBCSO itself is more of a classical affair, and the room generally isn’t used for film scoring.

It’s worth moving through all the available articulations in search of loudness. I’ve found a couple of “longs” that go further than the legatos, for example.


----------



## daan1412

jaketanner said:


> Does Core not have the Cuivre patches for the brass? They're plenty FF for me at least.


True, I like those patches, but in practice it's not as convenient as simply having an extra dynamic layer. Just recently I came up with an idea playing with the cuivre patch (great sound!) and I really needed shorts to make it sound convincing. Unfortunately, I couldn't match it with standard short articulations, it didn't blend. Granted, perhaps there are tricks to make it work, but at the end of the day... it just lacks that one dynamic layer IMO. It's great sounding brass, amazing at certain things (the whole library is now my go-to for mellow stuff), but it has this unfortunate limitation.



Alex Fraser said:


> Very nice! That provided a welcome distraction from work for a couple of minutes.





Brasart said:


> Very nice piece!





SupremeFist said:


> Lovely piece — really shows off the unique warmth and cohesiveness of this orchestra. 🤘🏻


Thank you guys for listening, I'm glad you liked it!


----------



## jaketanner

Judd said:


> Yes I have. I wound up separating a line into two tracks, I can't remember off hand if it was the Viola or the Cello. But if I cut the rumbling when playing in the instruments middle range, when I hit the lower end of the instrument those notes were cut out too. It was a bit disappointing.


You may need to automate the filter. I just leave it for now and do a high pass that is on the cusp of the low notes...just to get rid of unwanted noise.


----------



## Wedge

jaketanner said:


> You may need to automate the filter. I just leave it for now and do a high pass that is on the cusp of the low notes...just to get rid of unwanted noise.


I'll have to try that. Thank you.


----------



## CT

Whenever there's discussion of these scores in mock-up land, I have to give BBCSO a whirl. I think it's almost perfect for it.




That's just a basic blend of four mics with a little strategically placed reverb. Here's a _slightly_ more polished up version for comparison.


----------



## Tremendouz

So, I voiced my intention to buy Core but someone mentioned their player has issues on Windows? Can someone enlighten me a bit (keeping my PC specs in mind)? FWIW I haven't had technical trouble with their LABS and Originals Epic Strings but perhaps loading a large amount of instances would make a difference.


----------



## dzilizzi

Tremendouz said:


> So, I voiced my intention to buy Core but someone mentioned their player has issues on Windows? Can someone enlighten me a bit (keeping my PC specs in mind)? FWIW I haven't had technical trouble with their LABS and Originals Epic Strings but perhaps loading a large amount of instances would make a difference.


I haven't had problems in a while. I usually find that if the labs work on your computer, BBCSO will work. Other than the RAM issue, though you should be okay with 32GB for core.


----------



## Tremendouz

dzilizzi said:


> Other than the RAM issue, though you should be okay with 32GB for core.


I sure hope so since the library is only 28GB 

Edit: drop-outs were mentioned more than once when I dug deeper, that should *not* happen with my CPU and NVMe SSD unless the engine is broken but who knows... too bad there's no try before buy nor can you resell Spitfire stuff.


----------



## dzilizzi

Tremendouz said:


> I sure hope so since the library is only 28GB


Well, Windows uses RAM. And your DAW uses RAM. All I know is my 64 GB fills faster than I expect sometimes. But also CPU can be a problem.


----------



## Tremendouz

dzilizzi said:


> Well, Windows uses RAM. And your DAW uses RAM. All I know is my 64 GB fills faster than I expect sometimes. But also CPU can be a problem.


Currently with web browser and empty reaper project open I have 26GB available and as far as I know the samples aren't fully loaded into RAM (there's some disk streaming going on) unless the Spitfire player does things differently to Kontakt and PLAY.

So far my CPU has never exceeded 40% in a project so I do hope I'm fine in that regard.


----------



## Alex Fraser

You should be ok. If it helps, I run Core on a 16gig MbB. By default, the player streams a certain amount of sample data from disk, but the settings are very tweakable.


----------



## JDK88

I use a template with all of the instruments unloaded. So unused instruments aren't using up limited RAM.


----------



## giwro

First mock-up with BBCSO Pro since upgrading from Core. Debussy piano Prelude #6.


http://www.evensongmusic.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/DebussyPrelude6.mp4



I need to go back and tweak the ritards and some of the balances - this is straight from Dorico 3.5 with no extra edits in the Play mode.

I always got a kick out of these kind of orchestration assignments back in college days...


----------



## CT

giwro said:


> First mock-up with BBCSO Pro since upgrading from Core. Debussy piano Prelude #6.
> 
> 
> http://www.evensongmusic.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/DebussyPrelude6.mp4
> 
> 
> 
> I need to go back and tweak the ritards and some of the balances - this is straight from Dorico 3.5 with no extra edits in the Play mode.
> 
> I always got a kick out of these kind of orchestration assignments back in college days...


Really nice orchestration. Sounds nice for notation output! I might check some of the mic settings with the harp, celesta, and glockenspiel... using closer mics with more distant ones on those transient-heavy sounds requires a really fine balance to avoid too much slappy echo effect (an argument in favor of DG's method of time-aligning mics?). 

I think the harp close mic is also not properly panned by default, so that might also be worth looking at if you're using it. I usually nudge it to about L15 in the plugin close mic panner I believe.


----------



## giwro

Mike T said:


> Really nice orchestration. Sounds nice for notation output! I might check some of the mic settings with the harp, celesta, and glockenspiel... using closer mics with more distant ones on those transient-heavy sounds requires a really fine balance to avoid too much slappy echo effect (an argument in favor of DG's method of time-aligning mics?).
> 
> I think the harp close mic is also not properly panned by default, so that might also be worth looking at if you're using it. I usually nudge it to about L15 in the plugin close mic panner I believe.


I agree, Mike - the pitched tinkles are too forward in the mix and not panned correctly. I’m going to now go back and do a further tweaking of this. I was just curious how good I could get it straight from notation. It was sure fun to take a trip down memory lane and do this... I remember I used to love these assignments in orchestration class. What I would have done to have tools like this back then... we had to just use our knowledge and imagination....


----------



## Gil

giwro said:


> First mock-up with BBCSO Pro since upgrading from Core. Debussy piano Prelude #6.
> 
> 
> http://www.evensongmusic.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/DebussyPrelude6.mp4
> 
> 
> 
> I need to go back and tweak the ritards and some of the balances - this is straight from Dorico 3.5 with no extra edits in the Play mode.
> 
> I always got a kick out of these kind of orchestration assignments back in college days...


Hello,
Congrats for the mock-up! Apart for a few volume levels as already said, it sounds great!
Are you using the Steinberg BBC SO Playback Template?
Thanks!
Gil.


----------



## giwro

Gil said:


> Hello,
> Congrats for the mock-up! Apart for a few volume levels as already said, it sounds great!
> Are you using the Steinberg BBC SO Playback Template?
> Thanks!
> Gil.


Yes, using the template. Really amazing. And, as many have stated - the BBCSO just “hangs together” very well.


----------



## flatcat

I have made it through all 499 pages in approximately one month. Quite an interesting introduction to this community, I will say. 

I will also say thank you to so many people who have added really important nuggets of information in this thread (not just about chocolate, and tea, but about settings, useful tips and tricks, not to mention the fantastic mockups and compositions). I have copied quite a few to a Word document to bring into my studio later.

I bought Core in December, and am working on my first mockup. Already I've had to pirate a few other sounds from other libraries (notably cor anglais), but I'm trying to keep it to Core as much as possible. Using it in Reaper (thank you @Hooo) with ReaTiculate (thank you @tack - I doubt anyone here would be interested but I've made some maps for Miroslav Philharmonik 2 (and 1)). The process of mocking up an existing piece is quite time-consuming, I'm finding, but I think it will be satisfying when it's complete.

For someone just starting on translating the ideas in my head to orchestral music, whatever its shortcomings, BBCSO is a fantastic starting point. As a former violinist, I am very satisfied with its musicality and how well it captures a unified group. We'll see if I can turn that into something pleasing.

Again, thanks to all here for the inspiration, and thanks so, so much @christianhenson and @paulthomson and the whole @Spitfire Team for this fantastic tool.


----------



## mybadmemory

Its a fantastic library. I keep returning to it no matter what else I get. I’ll probably just upgrade it to pro in the next sale and then stop hunting for others.


----------



## RogiervG

The strings are real and cohesive sounding, like a real concert string section playing. it gives me goosebumps... 
Just listen to compositions on the net and here. Close your eyes.. forget you've read it was bbc so (core), and be amazed for the authentic sound it provides.

In contrast... CSS (among many others) is beautiful too. But the sound is more studio session recording beautiful (hence more suited for cinematic use)


----------



## flatcat

Also - I have a 2014-ish i5 Lenovo laptop, which I just upgraded to 16GB of RAM, and I am very pleased to report that after applying some of the items of interest in this thread (notably about some of the settings), I am able to run the Reaper template from @Hooo without crashing Reaper. Previously I couldn't use more than six instances of BBCSO before Reaper would noticeably slow down. I've got many more than that in the template running at the moment without any issues. That's pretty awesome. So thanks to everyone who clarified settings to try and pitfalls with routing in some of the templates.

I am now realizing how much I need to learn about working with virtual orchestral instruments. Yikes.


----------



## Page Lyn Turner

Is it possible to create a convincing divisi using different mics in BBC Pro? Something like mid/leader cello A and decca tree for cello B (or similar setup). Normally divisi is between the players of the same desk but can be also half front/back desks, thanks!


----------



## CT

I wouldn't use different mic combinations to approximate that. The difference between the players picked up by the tree vs. the outriggers for example just probably isn't big enough. Using the leader mics alongside a more traditional mix though, with emphasis on the former, will give you a decent enough impression of a smaller section sound.


----------



## Fleer

mybadmemory said:


> Its a fantastic library. I keep returning to it no matter what else I get. I’ll probably just upgrade it to pro in the next sale and then stop hunting for others.


You’ll be amazed. Pro is tantalizingly chocolatey


----------



## Brasart

We're almost at 500 pages! What a ride since the announcement


----------



## jaketanner

I am hoping they give us the piano that was mentioned. Aside from that, they are missing an alto flute and possibly euphonium (not sure if BBC uses one though), but an alto flute is pretty standard yet missing.

Next is the ability to merge mic signals and to create groupings with mute and solo of each mic. BBC is great, but still a bit to go yet.


----------



## Fleer

Yeah, piano and alto flute would be great indeed.


----------



## Toecutter

jaketanner said:


> I am hoping they give us the piano that was mentioned.


Was it ever recorded? @christianhenson any words about the piano or other instruments like alto flute?


----------



## Brasart

Piano was hinted at yes, but I don't recall anything about an alto flute, I think the piano would be the final instrument addition to the library if it comes out


----------



## jaketanner

Toecutter said:


> Was it ever recorded? @christianhenson any words about the piano or other instruments like alto flute?


I remember Christian mentioning the piano will be an addition...but nothing about the Alto, just hoping they do...why leave out ONE wind instrument out of all they recorded..makes no sense. LOL


----------



## mybadmemory

jaketanner said:


> I remember Christian mentioning the piano will be an addition...but nothing about the Alto, just hoping they do...why leave out ONE wind instrument out of all they recorded..makes no sense. LOL


Didn’t he rather say that a piano would be an interesting idea, or something along those lines? I can’t remember him actually saying it WILL happen?


----------



## jaketanner

mybadmemory said:


> Didn’t he rather say that a piano would be an interesting idea, or something along those lines? I can’t remember him actually saying it WILL happen?


I'll have to locate the video where he mentions it. I am pretty sure it was more of a sure thing eventually than an idea. I mean IF the BBC doesn't use a piano, I can certainly understand not including it...same with the Alto, although I find it hard to believe they never touched an alto.


----------



## Fleer

jaketanner said:


> I'll have to locate the video where he mentions it. I am pretty sure it was more of a sure thing eventually than an idea. I mean IF the BBC doesn't use a piano, I can certainly understand not including it...same with the Alto, although I find it hard to believe they never touched an alto.


Good point indeed. So an alto flute could be more likely than a piano.


----------



## RogiervG

He mentioned that he has more in store for BBC SO, like the piano recordings. But because of covid, access is difficult and unpredictable if they are able to make it happen, before the rig (maida vale studios) is shut down.
Although the BBC (the company, mother company) itself is (since last september) appealing againt the shutdown, so it might remain the orchestra's studio afterall.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I remember "BBC Piano" being listed as a track in a CH template - in one of his videos.
I screen grabbed it and popped it into this thread - though at 9979 posts, you'll forgive me for not trying to dig it out again. 😉


----------



## muziksculp

Sorry, but Pianos don't excite me that much. 

Hopefully they have more than a Piano to add to the BBCSO Library.


----------



## RogiervG

a choir? recorded there, instead of lyndhurst... with spill mics and such
how about side sounds (pages turning, squeeks of chairs, coughs, sighs, the conductors mumblings, or his baton tapping on his music stand, applause sounds), to get extra realism to the orchestra. (like a real concert also have them). It might sound silly, but i am serious, it can raise realism even further. It's a classical oriented library, not a studio session orchestral library, that wants to sound authentic, as if the BBC SO is playing for you.


----------



## Alex Fraser

RogiervG said:


> a choir? recorded there, instead of lyndhurst... with spill mics and such
> how about side sounds (pages turning, squeeks of chairs, coughs, sighs, the conductors mumblings, or his baton tapping on his music stand, applause sounds), to get extra realism to the orchestra. (like a real concert also have them). It might sound silly, but i am serious, it can raise realism even further. It's a classical oriented library, not a studio session orchestral library, that wants to sound authentic, as if the BBC SO is playing for you.


Totally. I love all the noise, including those accidental Easter eggs that pop up from time to time. 

Also: We’re now on page 500..


----------



## Fleer

BBC SO Chorus








BBC - BBC Symphony Orchestra - BBC Symphony Chorus


The BBC Symphony Orchestra perform a distinctive range of music from across the centuries




www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Tremendouz

Alex Fraser said:


> Totally. I love all the noise, including those accidental Easter eggs that pop up from time to time.
> 
> Also: We’re now on page 500..


They need to sample a guy sneezing into his trombone, with 8x RR and 5 dynamic layers.


----------



## gtrwll

How many of you are working with BBCSO with the one instance per instrument but articulations managed on separate midi tracks? I found the workflow quite nice as I was creating a new template the other day, it's easy to see what's happening where without the need to open the piano roll in Cubase or set up expression maps. The downside is that the track count is quite high even with reduced articulations, but it's manageable with folders.

The main reason for me to try it out was to be able to set a negative track delay per articulation, and it's working really well in that sense. Kudos to whoever it was who had compiled the negative track delay data sheet in this forum!

Here's a track that was conceived when fiddling with the template:




All BBCSO except English Horn and Oboe from OT BWW Soloists. Mix 1 with full spill mics on everything, strings with leader mic on as well. Bit of EQ to cut some of the mids here and there, but not much else.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I’m using a “traditional” keyswitch setup via Logic articulation thing-a-me-jigs. BBCSO works really well in this config. I have a template if anyone wants it.


----------



## Tremendouz

Alex Fraser said:


> I’m using a “traditional” keyswitch setup via Logic articulation thing-a-me-jigs. BBCSO works really well in this config. I have a template if anyone wants it.


I don't use Logic but I'm curious about how well the articulation volumes are balanced. I remember someone saying about the Symphonic Strings that the articulations had very varying volumes so the "one KS patch per instrument" approach doesn't work well without fiddling with expression on top of modwheel.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Tremendouz said:


> I don't use Logic but I'm curious about how well the articulation volumes are balanced. I remember someone saying about the Symphonic Strings that the articulations had very varying volumes so the "one KS patch per instrument" approach doesn't work well without fiddling with expression on top of modwheel.


I haven't noticed any glaring "gotchas" so far. It all seems reasonably smooth and the plugin responds well to the articulation maps. Quite amazing actually, if you consider all the possible variables involved in getting to that point.


----------



## Brasart

I use it as "one track one articulation", but I never have a full template loaded, the way I've set up my templates in Ableton is that I can drag & drop any track or folder from my browser window into my arrangement view: I find it makes me more productive than just opening up with a standard template, because it gives me some time to think about what sounds I'm going to want to use.

I have it as: 
• every section with a complete list of articulation
• "chamber orchestra" which is only the soloists articulations
• "eco" which are just quick shortcuts to my most used articulations (legato, longs, tremolo, stacc, spicc, pizz... etc)


----------



## Alex Fraser

10 more posts. C'mon gang...


----------



## mussnig

Brasart said:


> I use it as "one track one articulation", but I never have a full template loaded, the way I've set up my templates in Ableton is that I can drag & drop any track or folder from my browser window into my arrangement view: I find it makes me more productive than just opening up with a standard template, because it gives me some time to think about what sounds I'm going to want to use.
> 
> I have it as:
> • every section with a complete list of articulation
> • "chamber orchestra" which is only the soloists articulations
> • "eco" which are just quick shortcuts to my most used articulations (legato, longs, tremolo, stacc, spicc, pizz... etc)



How do you deal with delays? I am more or less using the same approach in Ableton Live but track delays (and of course send levels) won't be loaded if you just load a track from the user library. I was thinking about annotating these in some way to the tracks but it's just too much work to set up (at least for me).

Also, I have been tempering with some M4L devices to make something like dynamic loading possible (i.e., the initial track in the template only has this M4L device on it but track delays and audio routing is already set up. Once you click a button on the device, the corresponding VI is loaded onto the track). Not sure yet, if I really want to go this way ...


----------



## gtrwll

Alex Fraser said:


> I’m using a “traditional” keyswitch setup via Logic articulation thing-a-me-jigs. BBCSO works really well in this config. I have a template if anyone wants it.


I had the same setup in Cubase before, but I...uhhh, forgot to backup the template before I reinstalled my OS 

It does work fine, but is there a way to set the track delay per articulation? I couldn't think of one in Cubase at least.


----------



## Alex Fraser

gtrwll said:


> I had the same setup in Cubase before, but I...uhhh, forgot to backup the template before I reinstalled my OS
> 
> It does work fine, but is there a way to set the track delay per articulation? I couldn't think of one in Cubase at least.


In Logic? You can set a track delay, or set delay on specific regions.
There isn't currently a way to do this via the articulation maps though, so if you want per-articulation delays, you've gotta go the separate tracks route. As far as I'm aware.

Personally, I think setting all the delays is a bit of a faff and prefer just to nudge/jiggle/fix things on the move, but I can see the logic for certain workflows, especially if you're going notation > live performance.


----------



## Brasart

mussnig said:


> How do you deal with delays? I am more or less using the same approach in Ableton Live but track delays (and of course send levels) won't be loaded if you just load a track from the user library. I was thinking about annotating these in some way to the tracks but it's just too much work to set up (at least for me).
> 
> Also, I have been tempering with some M4L devices to make something like dynamic loading possible (i.e., the initial track in the template only has this M4L device on it but track delays and audio routing is already set up. Once you click a button on the device, the corresponding VI is loaded onto the track). Not sure yet, if I really want to go this way ...


To be honest I've never really been bothered by instrument delays, I try to adjust my playing to the library, otherwise I do some quick midi editing afterwards, but it has never really took me so much time that I thought it was an issue in need of a time-saving fix.


----------



## mybadmemory

I just set them up as needed when writing. I don't move midi notes (prefer to keep things on the grid) but I still just add the pre-delay by ear as soon as something sounds off. Takes a few seconds.


----------



## John R Wilson

Alex Fraser said:


> In Logic? You can set a track delay, or set delay on specific regions.
> There isn't currently a way to do this via the articulation maps though, so if you want per-articulation delays, you've gotta go the separate tracks route. As far as I'm aware.
> 
> Personally, I think setting all the delays is a bit of a faff and prefer just to nudge/jiggle/fix things on the move, but I can see the logic for certain workflows, especially if you're going notation > live performance.


I don't bother setting a track delay as well. I normally play most in live so will usually manually move/nudge the notes until it sounds on time, I also split shorts and longs into separate tracks so can have separate reverb tails for shorts and longs.


----------



## gtrwll

Alex Fraser said:


> In Logic? You can set a track delay, or set delay on specific regions.
> There isn't currently a way to do this via the articulation maps though, so if you want per-articulation delays, you've gotta go the separate tracks route. As far as I'm aware.
> 
> Personally, I think setting all the delays is a bit of a faff and prefer just to nudge/jiggle/fix things on the move, but I can see the logic for certain workflows, especially if you're going notation > live performance.


I compose by playing pretty much everything in, but my playing chops are not really on the level to leave most of my performance to the finished track. So I have to fix a lot of things, and I found that trying to find the sweet spots for the transitions one by one was taking a lot of time. Setting the track delays (although not perfect) took quite a bit of that away, and hopefully it does allow me to achieve more in the limited amount of time I have at my disposal for composing


----------



## KallumS

Page 500. Wow


----------



## Alex Fraser

gtrwll said:


> I compose by playing pretty much everything in, but my playing chops are not really on the level to leave most of my performance to the finished track. So I have to fix a lot of things, and I found that trying to find the sweet spots for the transitions one by one was taking a lot of time. Setting the track delays (although not perfect) took quite a bit of that away, and hopefully it does allow me to achieve more in the limited amount of time I have at my disposal for composing


I completely understand that. Pre-defined delays I'd imagine would be a boon for certain workflows.

I guess it depends on how much time one puts into the delay prep vs actually fixing it "in the field." If one isn't careful, it's 80% template prep, 20% composing.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Annnnnd 10K 🥳


----------



## mybadmemory

Alex Fraser said:


> Annnnnd 10K


Dang. I was actually waiting to grab the 10k but you beat me to it.


----------



## Alex Fraser

mybadmemory said:


> Dang. I was actually waiting to grab the 10k but you beat me to it.


Sorry man, I was responding to a previous post when I clocked the count. 😂
What a monster thread.


----------



## Fleer

Yep. BBCSO is pretty, pretty good.


----------



## RogiervG

it is prrrrretty good indeed. (just posting to increase post count  )


----------



## AEF

Brasart said:


> I use it as "one track one articulation", but I never have a full template loaded, the way I've set up my templates in Ableton is that I can drag & drop any track or folder from my browser window into my arrangement view: I find it makes me more productive than just opening up with a standard template, because it gives me some time to think about what sounds I'm going to want to use.
> 
> I have it as:
> • every section with a complete list of articulation
> • "chamber orchestra" which is only the soloists articulations
> • "eco" which are just quick shortcuts to my most used articulations (legato, longs, tremolo, stacc, spicc, pizz... etc)


Cool stuff! How does it breakdown within the subfolders (ie Strings Longs)?


----------



## SupremeFist

RogiervG said:


> it is prrrrretty good indeed. (just posting to increase post count  )


I like BBCSO too. It is very good!


----------



## KallumS

BBCSO good


----------



## CT

Is it though? I think it's terrible. I'm ditching it for one of those things the Real Composers use.


----------



## Zedcars

Yeah, the piano exists on CH’s SSD for sure. He has so many already so not sure why he won’t share. I mean, we have sleigh bells but no piano. What gives? \_(“.)_/


----------



## dcoscina

I know plenty of VI folks have heard this but I figured I'd post here anyhow as well. I composed this track only using BBCSO Core.


----------



## Scalms

Can someone recap this thread for me? What did I miss?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Scalms said:


> Can someone recap this thread for me? What did I miss?


Buy BBCSO Pro and go make some music.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

dcoscina said:


> I know plenty of VI folks have heard this but I figured I'd post here anyhow as well. I composed this track only using BBCSO Core.



This sounds really good. Makes me want to try it with the BHCT. I think it’s sound would fit so well.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Mike T said:


> Is it though? I think it's terrible. I'm ditching it for one of those things the Real Composers use.


Like a pencil and paper?


----------



## CT

That is how I write....


----------



## Alex Fraser

Scalms said:


> Can someone recap this thread for me? What did I miss?


Guesswork, arguments about confectionery, griping about the horns.


----------



## RogiervG

the cowbell though......


----------



## mybadmemory

For me the conclusion is that BBCSO is a heck of a library. Core is probably the best price/performance ratio out there. And Pro seem to be almost everything one needs for a truly detailed classical orchestra.


----------



## Alex Fraser

mybadmemory said:


> For me the conclusion is that BBCSO is a heck of a library. Core is probably the best price/performance ratio out there. And Pro seem to be almost everything one needs for a truly detailed classical orchestra.


Agree, and a *massive* step forward at the price point. To think of all the time I spent trying to wrangle the NI orchestra into submission..

I’d really would like that piano though..


----------



## SupremeFist

Alex Fraser said:


> Agree, and a *massive* step forward at the price point. To think of all the time I spent trying to wrangle the NI orchestra into submission..
> 
> I’d really would like that piano though..


Would a piano recorded in Maida Vale (by Spitfire!) be that much better than just using any old high-quality piano? I've been happy enough using a VSL or Simple Sam along with BBCSO, but it could very well be that I don't really appreciate the spatial nuances (or because I'm not going for a classical concerto mix)...


----------



## Alex Fraser

SupremeFist said:


> Would a piano recorded in Maida Vale (by Spitfire!) be that much better than just using any old high-quality piano? I've been happy enough using a VSL or Simple Sam along with BBCSO, but it could very well be that I don't really appreciate the spatial nuances (or because I'm not going for a classical concerto mix)...


I’m sure anything works with a little effort. I’m just lazy and want the work of positioning done for me. 😉

I’m thinking less HZ piano, more the SSO equivalent, but also hesitant to join the “add more” chorus to what’s already a very nice collection.


----------



## Brasart

AEF said:


> Cool stuff! How does it breakdown within the subfolders (ie Strings Longs)?


----------



## Thorgod10

Anyone ever figure out how to deal with the uneven shorts?
I'm trying to program some ostinato and it's killing me


----------



## mybadmemory

Thorgod10 said:


> Anyone ever figure out how to deal with the uneven shorts?
> I'm trying to program some ostinato and it's killing me


Within the same velocity layer they’re actually pretty consistent, which makes it manageable though inconvenient. Had it been the RRs that were inconsistent it would have been impossible, but as long as you keep track of the velocity layers you use, you can select and delay them independently in the piano roll. The rule (which according to CH is by design) seem to be that the lower layers are tighter and the higher layers are looser.


----------



## styledelk

Now I want to steal Brassart's template.


----------



## Brasart

styledelk said:


> Now I want to steal Brassart's template.


I can send you the project folder if you want to but it's very simple though, it's basically an articulation list


----------



## Peter Williams

I really like the library a lot based on what I've heard and I'm strongly leaning towards buying it. I only have the Discover version and I'm a bit put off by the intonation problems in the strings, especially the cellos in their mid to upper range. Does the Core version have similar issues?


----------



## Trinkets' Toad

Peter Williams said:


> Does the Core version have similar issues?



In the Discover version the same sample is stretched for 6-7 semitones (hence the 200mb size) iterating the imperfections in tone/intonation for a considerable portion of the instruments' range. I use BBCSO Core a lot and I didn't notice intonation problems on the celli patches yet


----------



## Peter Williams

Trinkets' Toad said:


> In the Discover version the same sample is stretched for 6-7 semitones (thus the 200mb size) iterating the imperfections in tone/intonation for a considerable portion of the instruments' range. I use BBCSO Core a lot and I didn't notice intonation problems on the celli patches yet


Thank you! That is revealing and also reassuring.


----------



## RogiervG

I wonder why most demos i've heard on youtube and soundcloud are very unclear (muddy even low-fi at times)? Only a few are not muddy sounding. I wonders why that is? is it post processing issue? (draining in reverbs, wrong eq settings) or part of the lib? or is the audio conversion by youtube and soundcloud messing with the sound BBC SO produces?
Even real orchestra recordings don't sound muddy as those demos i speak about.
The BBC SO demos on SA website are not having this issue though, neither their youtube versions (how can that be?).

In contrast, to stay within the same developer products: many SSO/SCS demos are clearer sounding. (albeit less cohesive)


----------



## Geomir

RogiervG said:


> I wonder why most demos i've heard on youtube and soundcloud are very unclear (muddy even low-fi at times)? Only a few are not muddy sounding. I wonders why that is? is it post processing issue? (draining in reverbs, wrong eq settings) or part of the lib? or is the audio conversion by youtube and soundcloud messing with the sound BBC SO produces?
> Even real orchestra recordings don't sound muddy as those demos i speak about.
> The BBC SO demos on SA website are not having this issue though, neither their youtube versions (how can that be?).
> 
> In contrast, to stay within the same developer products: many SSO/SCS demos are clearer sounding. (albeit less cohesive)


The Core version default mix (combination of mics) includes much ambience/reverb, so this can result to the muddiness you are hearing. Especially if the specific demos use all or most of the sections of the orchestra together, the muddiness can rise to big levels.

This is my only problem with Core. I wish they just gave us a plain Mid-Tree mic set, instead of this "Special Mix".


----------



## Composer 2021

I agree. The mix of Core sounds a bit off. Like they got so carried away with trying to promote the room that they forgot that there's still an orchestra here.


----------



## muziksculp

Spitfire BBCSO Pro users, what made you choose it over Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra ? 

Just curious to know the main reason/s 

Thanks.


----------



## mussnig

muziksculp said:


> Spitfire BBCSO Pro users, what made you choose it over Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra ?
> 
> Just curious to know the main reason/s
> 
> Thanks.


I don't have Pro yet (but plan to upgrade in the near future) but one of the main reasons for me was that you can get there step-by-step (Discover-Core-Pro). Also, waiting for sales, each purchase gives you a lot for the money and you don't spend too much at once. Also, when comparing sales prices, BBCSO is still cheaper than SSO (I think the cheapest way to get SSO was the bundle at last year's Spring Sale).

That being said, I still have a couple of Spitfire libraries that were recorded at Air Lyndhurst and I enjoy them very much. I would probably also prefer the "workflow" of SSO to BBCSO because in Kontakt I can purge RAM (which is essential to me, since I am working on a laptop with only 16 GB RAM). My main workhorse is still SStO Pro (together with BHCT) but mainly because I am used to it and I enjoy it's flexibility very much - easy to blend with other stuff and sounds great to me if you use a good reverb (and a good Mic combination or Mix 2).


----------



## Markrs

muziksculp said:


> Spitfire BBCSO Pro users, what made you choose it over Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra ?
> 
> Just curious to know the main reason/s
> 
> Thanks.


One reason was that you could go from Discover to Core to Pro. The fact I got Discover free, and they took money off Core. This made Core really cheap when it was at 40% off (probably one of the best bang for buck deals I have seen). I loved the sound so quickly upgraded to Pro before the 40% off deal ended.

The only SSO deal I was interested in was when it was 60% off as then it was at a price closer to the BBC SO Pro price. At the time it felt like too big of a decision. Whilst I don't dislike rooms with long reverbs, they can sound amazing, I do prefer drier libraries. Though BBC SO is not dry, I find the reverb less than Air Lyndhurst and with the Close mics mixed in I am can get a nice close sound.

I also like the overall sound of the BBC SO. It is less Hollywood that other libraries and I already had EW CCX and later EW HOD, so for me this offered something different.


----------



## TomislavEP

Markrs said:


> One reason was that you could go from Discover to Core to Pro. The fact I got Discover free, and they took money off Core. This made Core really cheap when it was at 40% off (probably one of the best bang for buck deals I have seen).


That's good to know! I wasn't aware that Discover counts as the discount if you got it for free.

I'm considering getting the Core in the future when on sale. I feel that this is the most affordable and straightforward way of expanding my present collection of orchestral sounds. So far, I rarely do purely orchestral arrangements, so Pro, let alone SA Symphonic range seems like an overkill to me (and to my budget).


----------



## Brasart

muziksculp said:


> Spitfire BBCSO Pro users, what made you choose it over Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra ?
> 
> Just curious to know the main reason/s
> 
> Thanks.


Mostly the price, got Pro with the intro offer (30% off I think it was?), and tied to the price the fact that it was including tonal percussion, orchestral percussion and harp.
I'm also rarely in need of a very large or big sound, and really love the BBCSO flavor -- this library made a lot of sense for me to buy


----------



## Jotto

I have core and i must say im happy with so far. I like the strings and woodwinds but im not crazy about the brass. Not at all. Can anyone who have gone from core to pro tell a little about how much better IT really is? Im curious but not sure if i want to pay that much for a couple of microphones.


----------



## mussnig

Jotto said:


> I have core and i must say im happy with so far. I like the strings and woodwinds but im not crazy about the brass. Not at all. Can anyone who have gone from core to pro tell a little about how much better IT really is? Im curious but not sure if i want to pay that much for a couple of microphones.


You also get a few additional instruments - most notably the section leaders for the strings.


----------



## RogiervG

Jotto said:


> I have core and i must say im happy with so far. I like the strings and woodwinds but im not crazy about the brass. Not at all. Can anyone who have gone from core to pro tell a little about how much better IT really is? Im curious but not sure if i want to pay that much for a couple of microphones.


I don't have PRO (yet), but what i know:
While pro offers more instruments and ofcourse the extra mic/mix options, it shouldn't make any difference, the patches (samples and scripts per instrument) of core should be the exact same ones found in pro. I see many pro users, add an additional brass lib. most popular seems SM brass (not sure why) from what i see/read all across the internet.


----------



## RogiervG

muziksculp said:


> Spitfire BBCSO Pro users, what made you choose it over Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra ?
> 
> Just curious to know the main reason/s
> 
> Thanks.


I am still considering SSO (i think chamber version, not sure yet), for the current price (not the pro).
I already have JB percussion, so i can go for the complete version quite discounted.
(and i also am considering completing the cinematic studio series, but that is offtopic)

However, the workflows are completely different between the two options. One is kontakt (it is my preference still), one is SA player (i can work with it, but still getting used too)..

Sound wise also differences.. SSO is more lush/wide/roomy/movie-esque..
BBC SO is more classical sounding (non processed as movies are mostly).

I have BBC SO Core, mix1 is in this version a bit muddy sounding. And the brass, mostly horn, is still not very nice in higher dynamics after the updates. The PRO upgrade would bring me more sonic options in terms of mics (and get rid of the muddy sound). SSO already has mic's to choose from.
So if i go BBC SO PRO i also want an extra brass lib, to deal with the (for me) just "ok" quality brass.
then there is the dynamics and control... hmmmmm each orchestra has differences...

Though choice....

Also cheap sometimes is expensive in the longer run (you need/want to buy more extra stuff or upgrades), but sometimes expensive remains expensive if the bought things are not working out as wanted. So called waist of money


----------



## jaketanner

muziksculp said:


> Spitfire BBCSO Pro users, what made you choose it over Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra ?
> 
> Just curious to know the main reason/s
> 
> Thanks.


At the time, SSO was way too expensive. BBC pro is a complete orchestra, and the deciding factor for me was the strings. I love the sound from BBC. But I may still get SSO down the road.


----------



## Jotto

The question is. Is it worth the money to upgrade from Core to BBC pro? Im really not convinced.


----------



## jaketanner

Jotto said:


> The question is. Is it worth the money to upgrade from Core to BBC pro? Im really not convinced.


100% yes. If you use BBC often, getting pro will just make that much more enjoyable. The additional mic options alone is worth it. TO not be stuck with that MIX 1 opens up a new sound possibility...then add in the leaders and additional instruments. Personally I would have hated to be stuck with core only.


----------



## RogiervG

Jotto said:


> The question is. Is it worth the money to upgrade from Core to BBC pro? Im really not convinced.


that's very hard to say.. the answer is: it depends.
If you want more control over the sound? more microphones choices is key.
Spill mics can also add flavor, among the traditional mics.
If you feel you need the extra instruments,it might be worth it too.

However, if you like it as it is. and have no needs for above, i would say: no
If you miss the extra instruments,but dislike the tone of those in BBC SO PRO (sound demos), i'd say no. You can better buy additional libraries that have these instruments represented in a better way.


----------



## Composer 2021

I think some of the demos on Spitfire's site actually make Core sound better than Pro when they use the same track. The Pro demos are relying too much on the close mics and in some cases, the strings are mixed straight down the center (disgusting!). Yet in actual use, Pro can provide much better mixes than Core when you choose the right mix. "Admiral Benbow" is still one of the greatest sampled pieces I have ever heard though.

I wish Core and Discover had all of Pro's demo tracks so we can hear the difference. Dying to hear what "Admiral Benbow" sounds like on Core.


----------



## jaketanner

Composer 2021 said:


> I think some of the demos on Spitfire's site actually make Core sound better than Pro when they use the same track. The Pro demos are relying too much on the close mics and in some cases, the strings are mixed straight down the center (disgusting!). Yet in actual use, Pro can provide much better mixes than Core when you choose the right mix. "Admiral Benbow" is still one of the greatest sampled pieces I have ever heard though.
> 
> I wish Core and Discover had all of Pro's demo tracks so we can hear the difference. Dying to hear what "Admiral Benbow" sounds like on Core.


I hated this demo...it's very "kitchen sink" purely created to show off every articulation and sound...not really anything musical (of course my opinion). Not that it doesn't sound good as an orchestration, but i don't think it's a typical mockup how we would all use the library...it just has no direction and while it may sound impressive, it really doesn't show off what Pro can do. Demos from Mattia Chiappa are more "real world" for sure.


----------



## RogiervG

jaketanner said:


> I hated this demo...it's very "kitchen sink" purely created to show off every articulation and sound...not really anything musical (of course my opinion). Not that it doesn't sound good as an orchestration, but i don't think it's a typical mockup how we would all use the library...it just has no direction and while it may sound impressive, it really doesn't show off what Pro can do. Demos from Mattia Chiappa are more "real world" for sure.


Yes, i agree. Mattia is surely a good example on how to use the library properly (real world scenario's). He has taken a lot of time balancing the instruments properly in his template. (he made a video on that aswell). And it sounds amazingly real, in terms of how an orchestra would sound in a classical setting.
Although he uses additional libs in his work. (SM brass to spice up the "meh" brass that comes with bbc so)


----------



## jaketanner

RogiervG said:


> Yes, i agree. Mattia is surely a good example on how to use the library properly (real world scenario's). He has taken a lot of time balancing the instruments properly in his template. (he made a video on that aswell). And it sounds amazingly real, in terms of how an orchestra would sound in a classical setting.
> Although he uses additional libs in his work. (SM brass to spice up the "meh" brass that comes with bbc so)


yes...he does add other libraries, but the first one he did..was a slow tempo piece, was 100% BBC...and to note, he uses the Core edition.


----------



## RogiervG

jaketanner said:


> yes...he does add other libraries, but the first one he did..was a slow tempo piece, was 100% BBC...and to note, he uses the Core edition.


No, he does not use the core edition.


----------



## ed buller

muziksculp said:


> Spitfire BBCSO Pro users, what made you choose it over Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra ?
> 
> Just curious to know the main reason/s
> 
> Thanks.


I have the SSO Strings. I had friends at RCP that had the brass and woods. I have a problem with tuning and the overall wetness of the Brass. I bought BBC when it came out. I still think it's the most realistic sounding Symphony Orchestra i have heard come out of a computer. When all the instruments play music that is basically Orchestral in style. Not Hollywood.... it sounds fabulous and real. As much as I like the SSO stuff it sounds less realistic and more hyped. I think BBC is more me. I think it will do Silvestri and Williams, Goldsmith and Kamen......

best

ed


----------



## muziksculp

ed buller said:


> I have the SSO Strings. I had friends at RCP that had the brass and woods. I have a problem with tuning and the overall wetness of the Brass. I bought BBC when it came out. I still think it's the most realistic sounding Symphony Orchestra i have heard come out of a computer. When all the instruments play music that is basically Orchestral in style. Not Hollywood.... it sounds fabulous and real. As much as I like the SSO stuff it sounds less realistic and more hyped. I think BBC is more me. I think it will do Silvestri and Williams, Goldsmith and Kamen......
> 
> best
> 
> ed


Thanks. 

The reason I'm asking this question, is I'm evaluating if I should use BBCSO Pro as my main Go-To Orchestral library in my template, I can complement it with other libraries if needed. 

It just makes working, and setting up a template a cleaner, easier task. I just have to make sure I choose the right library for this task. I have both the BBCSO Pro, and SSO Pro. , and many other libraries. But want to have a focused approach, more cohesive sonic character, which the BBCSO Pro is know to deliver. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## RogiervG

ed buller said:


> I think it will do Silvestri and Williams, Goldsmith and Kamen......


Which do mostly hollywood style orchestra recording (session based). So SSO should fit better in your logic


----------



## CT

RogiervG said:


> Which do mostly hollywood style orchestra recording (session based). So SSO should fit better in your logic


A different era with different performance methods etc.


----------



## muziksculp

By the way, I heard some amazing demos of film score emulations done with both BBCSO Pro, and SSO Pro. So, they are both great libraries, it's just a matter of taste, (I think) as to which one becomes the Go-To Orchestral Library in a Template.

OH.. Does SSO have more Dynamic Layers than BBCSO Pro ?


----------



## RogiervG

Mike T said:


> A different era with different performance methods etc.


I am just teasing.. i know what he refers to


----------



## Composer 2021

Idk about SSO. It sounds more roomy than most real recordings in Air Lyndhurst. I guess Spitfire just loves its rooms.


----------



## Fleer

Personally quite enamored with the Unify approach of BBCSO for live playing.


----------



## ed buller

RogiervG said:


> Which do mostly hollywood style orchestra recording (session based). So SSO should fit better in your logic


no not true. It's the orchestration and style of writing. It's not 70 strings doing ostinatos and layered brass with 12 horns and 8 trombones. Look at the scores for those composers and you will see what I mean. There is space. More RAVEL,RESPIGHI and RIMSKY...less MAHLER or WAGNER......

If you want an orchestra that can fight through synths and electronics then SSO might be a better choice. That's not my bag really. 

best

ed


----------



## ed buller

Composer 2021 said:


> Idk about SSO. It sounds more roomy than most real recordings in Air Lyndhurst. I guess Spitfire just loves its rooms.


it's very very wet

best

ed


----------



## ed buller

muziksculp said:


> OH.. Does SSO have more Dynamic Layers than BBCSO Pro ?


i think BBC has more on some patches. I think BBC being newer has a sharper programming edge for me too !

best
e


----------



## muziksculp

ed buller said:


> less MAHLER or WAGNER......


I'm not a fan of either of those composers. 

Kind of heavy handed orchestration, Too loud, too much brass, boombastic Perc, not my type of orchestration.


----------



## ed buller

muziksculp said:


> I'm not a fan of either of those composers.
> 
> Kind of heavy handed orchestration, Too loud, too much brass, boombastic Perc, not my type of orchestration.


i've tried very very hard to love mahler......just don't hear it...WAGNER is another matter . He is the father of Hollywood in many ways. 



e


----------



## jaketanner

RogiervG said:


> No, he does not use the core edition.



Ah. Originally he told me he used mix 1 for that slow piece he did. That’s why I mentioned core. Got confused. And I personally hate mix 1…lol. I use combinations also and always the tree in there. They should have just given core a tree and close mic. Instead of that mix.


----------



## CT

muziksculp said:


> OH.. Does SSO have more Dynamic Layers than BBCSO Pro ?


Yes, generally, it does. Some of the winds and brass are similar in dynamic/RR specs, but the strings and percussion are a fair bit more deeply sampled in SSO.


----------



## muziksculp

I find it kind of odd that they have Strings Con-Sordino Sustain, but no Legato-Sordino Strings in both BBCSO Pro, and SSO. I don't understand the reason for this omission. 

SCS, and SCS Pro have Legato Strings Con-Sordino.


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> I find it kind of odd that they have Strings Con-Sordino Sustain, but no Legato-Sordino Strings in both BBCSO Pro, and SSO. I don't understand the reason for this omission.
> 
> SCS, and SCS Pro have Legato Strings Con-Sordino.


SCS is blessed with a lot of legatos. It is one of the best things about SCS. The reason for the omission is almost certainly cost: they take a lot of programming. If we are in the land of wouldn't it be nice, I would love if SSS had all a similar comprehensive set of legatos as SCS. We can hope that AR modular takes the same approach as SCS on legatos.


----------



## muziksculp

jbuhler said:


> I would love if SSS had all a similar comprehensive set of legatos as SCS. We can hope that AR modular takes the same approach as SCS on legatos.


Yes, I hope AR1 Modular gets lots of Legatos, including Sordinos. AR1 Modular is my next big investment that I'm excited about. I wish it can be out this year, but I doubt it.


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> Yes, I hope AR1 Modular gets lots of Legatos, including Sordinos. AR1 Modular is my next big investment that I'm excited about. I wish it can be out this year, but I doubt it.


Given that only two of the AROOF expansions are out, I don’t see modular AR to start appearing anytime soon.


----------



## muziksculp

jbuhler said:


> Given that only two of the AROOF expansions are out, I don’t see modular AR to start appearing anytime soon.


True, but what if they are focused more on releasing one, or more of the AR1 Modular sections this year, and have delayed the AROOF expansions. It's a possibility.


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> True, but what if they are focused more on releasing one, or more of the AR1 Modular sections this year, and have delayed the AROOF expansions. It's a possibility.


I would find that decision surprising. But I don’t know anything. Since the pandemic disrupted recording I would think they would push the first modular AR back. I’m guessing second quarter 2022 for first AR modular, maybe as late as fall 2022.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

RogiervG said:


> No, he does not use the core edition.



Damn, this guy is awesome. Just found his channel through your post and he has some great tutorials!


----------



## SupremeFist

jaketanner said:


> Ah..I have the Nano, but not using at the moment...but I will starting in mid March when I redo my setup. Thanks...


Just FYI I updated to Big Sur because I didn't want to be left behind with Logic updates and the Nanokontrol still works fine. Graphics are glitchy on the latest editor but you can still change assignments etc.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Just a quick heads up: If you’re using the Korg Nanos for midi CC, you don’t need the Korg drivers anymore. Simply grab the editor and go.

I have a nano pad floating in from Amazon tomorrow. I needed to complete the set. 🤷‍♂️

Edit: It appears I’ve already mentioned this. Clearly I’m an old man/broken record. I’ll be at the bar. If you need me, send someone.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi, 

I'm loving the clarity, and definition of the BBCSO Pro sounds, the Strings are wonderful, and very expressive, legatos are smooth, no bumpiness, woodwinds are very good as well. Brass is good for general use, maybe not for very high-intensity brass where fff-ffff is needed, but I don't use very high-dynamics in brass for my music, I haven't had a chance to check the Perc. yet, but I'm guessing they are very good as well.


I will most likely build a BBCSO Pro Template, it will become my Go-To library to start composing. I can then add, change, or do whatever is needed.



Fleer said:


> Pro is tantalizingly chocolatey


Love this ^^^ description by @Fleer , very accurate.  hehe.. I also love Chocolate. So, I'm very happy with the sound of the BBCSO Pro.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## jaketanner

SupremeFist said:


> Just FYI I updated to Big Sur because I didn't want to be left behind with Logic updates and the Nanokontrol still works fine. Graphics are glitchy on the latest editor but you can still change assignments etc.


I am actually selling the Nano...I ordered the Monogram controllers last month...should arrive any day now.  Hope they work...LOL


----------



## pfmusic

There's an update for BBC Plugin on the SA App this morning.

And yet again, we have to guess what's been updated as there's no update in release note. Typical!


----------



## Brasart

pfmusic said:


> There's an update for BBC Plugin on the SA App this morning.
> 
> And yet again, we have to guess what's been updated as there's no update in release note. Typical!


The last updates all had release notes, let's wait a bit, it might be a case of an update being pushed out earlier than expected


----------



## Alex Fraser

I downloaded it. New pianos, pipe organ, "orchestral drum kit", full saxophone section, new FFFFF Power Legato (™) brass and 1000% more "cohesiveness"

More RR on the sleigh bells too..


----------



## Jonas Hallstrom

Alex Fraser said:


> I downloaded it. New pianos, pipe organ, "orchestral drum kit", full saxophone section, new FFFFF Power Legato (™) brass and 1000% more "cohesiveness"
> 
> More RR on the sleigh bells too..


Wow colab with N?


----------



## Will Wilson

Version History: BBC Symphony Orchestra


Version 1.2.1 - 7th May 2021 Changed Update to the plugin only which patches issue where users where unable to use the Transpose function. Version 1.2.0 - 13th January 2021 Added Pro/Core: Add ...




spitfireaudio.zendesk.com







> Update to the plugin only which patches issue where users where unable to use the Transpose function.


----------



## Page Lyn Turner

It seems that version 1.2.1 freezes (my) Logic! 10.5.1


----------



## AndyP

The update 1.2 has changed my user presets. I had built sets, so BD from c1, snare from C2, etc.. This is all back in default mode. Now I have to map it again.


----------



## jamie8

anybody have a bbcso pro 1.2.0 ver au of this plugin , i have a support ticket into spitfire but logic 10.5.1 passes all the au validation but it won't load bbcso 1.2.1,.... works great in axe and vst but no au.
i have redownloaded 1.2.1 from the app as well as,.... revalidated , cleared prefs etc in logic and no go, frustrating as spitfire seems to fix one thing and breaks another ..argh... just want to be able to use this again in logic.


----------



## jamie8

ok got it to work , apparently the au plugin 1.2.1 and logic 10.5.1 don't like each other so under spitfires direction i upgraded to catalina 10.15.7 from 10.15.6 and then upgraded logic.
All is well now but it would have been nice to know this before i downloaded the update , and there is nothing in the release notes either .


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

jaketanner said:


> Ah. Originally he told me he used mix 1 for that slow piece he did.


Pretty sure that's not the I answer gave you but sorry if that's the case. I've never ever used the library like that and I've always been really open about it. Though I distinctly remember strings being indeed mix1 100%, but also leaders 100% and spill 40%.

I can't remember exactly the rest but I think woods were mids 90%, tree 70%, a touch of close and gallery. Brass probably tree, ambient, outriggers and spill all 100%. Percussion was probably 100% gallery, and a bit of mids and spills. Harp and celeste, stereo, close wide and tree. Eqs on stems cutting highs and lows and I had just one bus reverb with altiverb toddao (no early reflection, just the tail), sending on each stem about 30%. On the output just regular mastering tools, mid side eq, compression, imager, limiting and I think a bit of tape saturation (not sure about this last one but I always use it so it must be on this one too). Hope this helps


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

RogiervG said:


>



This template is very very recent though. Everything sounds much more balanced now than those early demos. I was still learning to use the library back then but I always applied the principles I've talked about in this video. The main difference is that now I tend to like a much closer, wider sound and no longer use mix1 on strings but also supplement with CSS.

This one my latest works I could find without CSS. The only extras here are sm horns, and trumpets, cinepiano and mini harp from spitfire labs. You'll hear it's quite different aesthetics from what I used to like in 2019.


----------



## jaketanner

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Pretty sure that's not the I answer gave you but sorry if that's the case.


So the original 100% BBC ballad.. I think was Closure? Was not MIX 1? My bad then...distinctly remember you mentioning that...I could have sworn you only had Core but I realize now that would have been impossible since Core wasn't available..LOL. My bad...sorry for the mix up.


----------



## andyhy

Mattia Chiappa said:


> This template is very very recent though. Everything sounds much more balanced now than those early demos. I was still learning to use the library back then but I always applied the principles I've talked about in this video. The main difference is that now I tend to like a much closer, wider sound and no longer use mix1 on strings but also supplement with CSS.
> 
> This one my latest works I could find without CSS. The only extras here are sm horns, and trumpets, cinepiano and mini harp from spitfire labs. You'll hear it's quite different aesthetics from what I used to like in 2019.



Just wanted to say a quick thank you for your composing series using BBCSO Pro


----------



## Composer 2021

Someone deleted a post somewhere in the thread. You got post 10,000 after all.


----------



## mybadmemory

Composer 2021 said:


> Someone deleted a post somewhere in the thread. You got post 10,000 after all.


I can rest calmly now.


----------



## Alex Fraser

mybadmemory said:


> I can rest calmly now.


Would it be really petty of me to delete one of my posts too, so you don't get the 10K either? 😂


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Just upgraded and playing around with BBC Pro. Holy hell, it's amazing. The mic positions and extra instruments really do actually add ALOT more to this library and I'm very glad I did it. 

Other pro users, notice anything missing? Small small issue, but I notice the bass flutes on the website say they have long flutter but I only have long in mine. No flutter. Is this an issue on my end or a mistake on theirs? So far, everything else adds up how it should that I've noticed.


----------



## jaketanner

Baronvonheadless said:


> Just upgraded and playing around with BBC Pro. Holy hell, it's amazing. The mic positions and extra instruments really do actually add ALOT more to this library and I'm very glad I did it.
> 
> Other pro users, notice anything missing? Small small issue, but I notice the bass flutes on the website say they have long flutter but I only have long in mine. No flutter. Is this an issue on my end or a mistake on theirs? So far, everything else adds up how it should that I've noticed.


Glad you like Pro..it's awesome. And yes, there is a long Flutter patch in both flute solo and a3. Bass flute, you need to go into the mic options and turn it on...it's not on by default.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

jaketanner said:


> Glad you like Pro..it's awesome. And yes, there is a long Flutter patch in both flute solo and a3.


It's surprisingly much, much better than I thought. I'm referring to the bass flutes patch tho!


----------



## jaketanner

Baronvonheadless said:


> It's surprisingly much, much better than I thought. I'm referring to the bass flutes patch tho!


turn it on..it's not on by default. I edited my reply.


----------



## jaketanner

Baronvonheadless said:


> It's surprisingly much, much better than I thought


Improved a bit since the last update as well.


----------



## Toecutter

Baronvonheadless said:


> Small small issue, but I notice the bass flutes on the website say they have long flutter but I only have long in mine.


Click the pencil symbol, it's in the techniques lists, you have to add it manually. I think Spitfire forgot to include the flutter to the default list.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Toecutter said:


> Click the pencil symbol, it's in the techniques lists, you have to add it manually. I think Spitfire forgot to include the flutter to the default list.


whoa I never knew that existed! Thanks


----------



## Toecutter

Baronvonheadless said:


> whoa I never knew that existed! Thanks


Yep it's handy to remove unused articulations and save some RAM and load times until they add proper purge.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Toecutter said:


> Yep it's handy to remove unused articulations and save some RAM and load times until they add proper purge.


Thanks, you guys are awesome. This community is great!


----------



## Markrs

I love BBC SO Pro and since having it, every other orchestral library has to be better than this library or I don't get it. Maybe unsurprisingly to those on this thread (as most of you know how good BBC SO Pro is) that has meant buying less orchestral libraries (I have still bought other libraries of course), as BBC SO Pro sets s very high bar in my opinion.


----------



## Toecutter

Baronvonheadless said:


> Thanks, you guys are awesome. This community is great!


hey np Baron, I learn something new every day! Now with all the microphones available, you can do some cool stuff with them (learned in the forum too) so check out the "signal mixer" section of the manual


----------



## dcoscina

Markrs said:


> I love BBC SO Pro and since having it, every other orchestral library has to be better than this library or I don't get it. Maybe unsurprisingly to those on this thread (as most of you know how good BBC SO Pro is) that has meant buying less orchestral libraries (I have still bought other libraries of course), as BBC SO Pro sets s very high bar in my opinion.


I'm finding this too. My Sample lust has diminished quite a bit after getting very pleasing results from BBC with my Star Trek stuff. I have enjoyed OPUS more than I'd originally expected for the film sound, but BBCSO so nice for pretty much all styles. I'm glad it's actually gained a lot of favor since its inception. At least around these parts.


----------



## Fleer

Read somewhere that it is/was a bad idea to install BBCSO Core on one Mac (laptop) and BBCSO Professional on another (desktop). Would this indeed (still) be the case ?


----------



## Markrs

Fleer said:


> Read somewhere that it is/was a bad idea to install BBCSO Core on one Mac (laptop) and BBCSO Professional on another (desktop). Would this indeed (still) be the case ?


I can't see why this would be a bad idea, as isn't that the whole point of being able to switch between, Discover, Core and Pro, so you can still use it even on low powered devices.

Personally as I still want all the extra instruments. I install Pro on the laptop then remove all the mics except Mix 2


----------



## Composer 2021

The only bad idea is if you rely on bass clarinet, cor anglais, or string soloists.


----------



## Composer 2021

I got BBCSO Pro this morning.  Been wanting this ever since it was released. Next stop, a computer that can run this thing...


----------



## Composer 2021

Is it possible to run Pro on an external hard drive instead of an SSD? Will there be any performance issues other than slower loading?


----------



## Fleer

Markrs said:


> I can't see why this would be a bad idea, as isn't that the whole point of being able to switch between, Discover, Core and Pro, so you can still use it even on low powered devices.
> 
> Personally as I still want all the extra instruments. I install Pro on the laptop then remove all the mics except Mix 2


Good idea. Still, I hope using Core on my laptop and Pro on my desktop won’t get me into trouble. Someone in another forum (sadly don’t remember which) wrote that Spitfire had told him not to split things up like that. Humbug, I sincerely hope.


----------



## Trash Panda

Composer 2021 said:


> Is it possible to run Pro on an external hard drive instead of an SSD? Will there be any performance issues other than slower loading?


You could potentially get audio dropouts during playback if you don’t have the RAM to preload all the samples. I had to move the library off the SD card on my laptop to the built-in SSD to reduce that.


----------



## ennbr

Fleer said:


> Good idea. Still, I hope using Core on my laptop and Pro on my desktop won’t get me into trouble.


If that were the case then why would Spitfire have added the ability to change the level from Discovery, Core, and Pro to the player


----------



## Composer 2021

Trash Panda said:


> You could potentially get audio dropouts during playback if you don’t have the RAM to preload all the samples. I had to move the library off the SD card on my laptop to the built-in SSD to reduce that.


So, no audio dropouts should happen if I only load a reasonable amount compared to my RAM capacity?


----------



## Saxer

Composer 2021 said:


> Is it possible to run Pro on an external hard drive instead of an SSD? Will there be any performance issues other than slower loading?


The more RAM you have and preload samples into it the less direct from disc streaming is needed. But it's a full orchestra library with lots of articulations and mic positions. I wouldn't use HDs for this any more. You can try and see where the borders are. Probably depends on the arrangements density and RAM requirement of the samples. Legato tuttis with runs and stuff will be the most demanding situation. I don't believe a single HD will be fast enough for the whole thing. If the 12GB RAM in your specs list is still relevant you will need a lot of streaming speed. Get more SSDs.


----------



## mussnig

Saxer said:


> The more RAM you have and preload samples into it the less direct from disc streaming is needed. But it's a full orchestra library with lots of articulations and mic positions. I wouldn't use HDs for this any more. You can try and see where the borders are. Probably depends on the arrangements density and RAM requirement of the samples. Legato tuttis with runs and stuff will be the most demanding situation. I don't believe a single HD will be fast enough for the whole thing. If the 12GB RAM in your specs list is still relevant you will need a lot of streaming speed. Get more SSDs.



I wouldn't try to run it from a usual HDD but an external SSD - but doesn't have to be an NVME, a SATA III should be plenty enough. I don't have Pro yet but with Core the loading speed of the samples on my internal NVME is quite slow compared to what is possible with the drive.

In that case you can also lower your preload buffer and then working with BBCSO can be done in a way so that it uses less RAM than a comparable Kontakt based orchestra - that is, with one Mic loaded though. In fact, I did quite a few tests regarding RAM. Sure, Kontakt has a purge function which BBCSO doesn't have (you can only purge articulations but not the samples from within an articulation), but each Kontakt patch itself usually eats up between 40-70 MB (just the patch itself without samples). Then, each Kontakt instance itself (without a patch loaded) also needs RAM. The BBCSO plugin itself only needs little RAM for each additional instance (as compared to Kontakt with a patch) - apart from the very first instance maybe. Of course, if you have little RAM you should only load the articulations you need and then add them as you go ...

As an example: Yesterday, I opened Ableton (which in an empty state uses between 500 and 700 MB of RAM - it varies) and then loaded 100 BBCSO tracks, each one with a different articulation (so they didn't share any samples). In the end everything together needed around 5,5 GB RAM and I got an average of 49 MB RAM per Track in Ableton + BBCSO instance with 1 articulation loaded.

Obviously, when comparing with Kontakt this whole thing varies (because once you really use a certain number of articulations within one patch, Kontakt will have an advantage in terms of RAM).


----------



## becolossal

Anyone know if you can revert to an older version of the plug-in? There seems to be a bug when trying to run 1.21 on older versions of Logic and MacOS (it doesn't save any settings). I had no issues with 1.20, so am trying to go back, but it no longer shows in my Spitfire Audio App.


----------



## Page Lyn Turner

becolossal said:


> Anyone know if you can revert to an older version of the plug-in? There seems to be a bug when trying to run 1.21 on older versions of Logic and MacOS (it doesn't save any settings). I had no issues with 1.20, so am trying to go back, but it no longer shows in my Spitfire Audio App.


Ι've had the same problem, you can send a ticket to Spitfire support and they'll send you a link with the 1.20


----------



## becolossal

Page Lyn Turner said:


> Ι've had the same problem, you can send a ticket to Spitfire support and they'll send you a link with the 1.20


Thanks, Page. I did submit one last night, but haven't yet received a response. I know their turnaround has been a bit longer than usual as of late. I'll be patient


----------



## icecoolpool

So I took the plunge and upgraded to BBC Professional. Still an hour to go on strings but I´ve been playing around with BBCSO percussion in the meantime. Just trying the harp damped medium articulation, with close and tree mics set to 100% each: WOW!

Frankly, it sounds soundtrack ready, unbelievably beautiful tone. I switched back to discover and core to compare. Discover reminds me of a 90s rompler. Core, on the other hand, is fine but a little washed out. Astonishing, quite literally the first microphone mix I tried with pro and my breath has been taken away.


----------



## Flyo

icecoolpool said:


> So I took the plunge and upgraded to BBC Professional. Still an hour to go on strings but I´ve been playing around with BBCSO percussion in the meantime. Just trying the harp damped medium articulation, with close and tree mics set to 100% each: WOW!
> 
> Frankly, it sounds soundtrack ready, unbelievably beautiful tone. I switched back to discover and core to compare. Discover reminds me of a 90s rompler. Core, on the other hand, is fine but a little washed out. Astonishing, quite literally the first microphone mix I tried with pro and my breath has been taken away.


Mix 1 on Core and Pro are the same right?


----------



## John R Wilson

icecoolpool said:


> So I took the plunge and upgraded to BBC Professional. Still an hour to go on strings but I´ve been playing around with BBCSO percussion in the meantime. Just trying the harp damped medium articulation, with close and tree mics set to 100% each: WOW!
> 
> Frankly, it sounds soundtrack ready, unbelievably beautiful tone. I switched back to discover and core to compare. Discover reminds me of a 90s rompler. Core, on the other hand, is fine but a little washed out. Astonishing, quite literally the first microphone mix I tried with pro and my breath has been taken away.


Those extra mics really make a big difference over BBCSO core.


----------



## John R Wilson

Flyo said:


> Mix 1 on Core and Pro are the same right?


Yep same


----------



## Toecutter

icecoolpool said:


> So I took the plunge and upgraded to BBC Professional. Still an hour to go on strings but I´ve been playing around with BBCSO percussion in the meantime. Just trying the harp damped medium articulation, with close and tree mics set to 100% each: WOW!
> 
> Frankly, it sounds soundtrack ready, unbelievably beautiful tone. I switched back to discover and core to compare. Discover reminds me of a 90s rompler. Core, on the other hand, is fine but a little washed out. Astonishing, quite literally the first microphone mix I tried with pro and my breath has been taken away.


Wait till you discover the powers of the spill microphones XD


----------



## icecoolpool

Flyo said:


> Mix 1 on Core and Pro are the same right?


Yes. Pro, by default loads up with Mix 1. 

I´m by no means a Mix 1 hater. But I´m not a Mix 1 lover either.


----------



## Flyo

Happy owner BBC Core here since yesterday, looking forward to Pro now


----------



## Flyo

Mix 1 from Simon Rhode sounds very realistic, based on SF team the Mix 1 seems to achieve cohesive sound between sections as total without any boost. I don’t really like in every section for what I need generally. Of course great mix for wants to achieve really


----------



## icecoolpool

Flyo said:


> Mix 1 from Simon Rhode sounds very realistic, based on SF team the Mix 1 seems to achieve cohesive sound between sections as total without any boost. I don’t really like in every section for what I need generally. Of course great mix for wants to achieve really


Yeah, that sums it up fairly. Mix 1 is very well balanced and does the BBC Radio 3 symphony sound very well. The main issue with Mix 1 is versatility. It forces the user into a very classical sound while Pro offers incredible flexibility.


Toecutter said:


> Wait till you discover the powers of the spill microphones XD


Do you use "spill microphones full" or do you actually balance the spill mics separately?


----------



## mybadmemory

Flyo said:


> Mix 1 from Simon Rhode sounds very realistic, based on SF team the Mix 1 seems to achieve cohesive sound between sections as total without any boost. I don’t really like in every section for what I need generally. Of course great mix for wants to achieve really


Bbcso Mix1 is by Jake Jackson!


----------



## moon

mybadmemory said:


> Bbcso Mix1 is by Alan Meyerson.


Really? Spitfire says it's also by Jake.


----------



## mybadmemory

moon said:


> Really? Spitfire says it's also by Jake.


Oh, sorry I meant Jake!! Edited my previous post. Not by Simon Rhodes though! :D


----------



## Brasart

I did Mix1


----------



## icecoolpool




----------



## Baronvonheadless

Did this little improvisation today with just BBC Pro, with all of the string sections, some horn/trumpet/tuba and some contrabassoon and flutes. Mostly the tree mics, with a few mid mics and spill mics...

Really fucking powerful library, IMO.


----------



## Karmand

I picked up bbcso pro as well. Incredible difference.


----------



## mussnig

Hey,

I just wanted to ask if anyone is using BBCSO with Ableton on a Windows machine. I am experiencing severe dropouts on export, even though the project is playing fine (CPU, RAM, Voice count etc. are all far from hitting any limits) when hitting "Play" in the DAW (I made some minimal projects to test this).

So what I think happens is that while rendering/exporting, the BBCSO plugin doesn't stream any samples from my SSD but only uses what's still available in the preload buffer. This is clearly visible from the task manager: there is some reading activity on my SSD during playback in the DAW (as expected) but not during export. The only solution I found so far is to force Ableton to use real-time rendering. But that's not really ideal because then you can't use some high quality mode in certain plug-ins which the CPU couldn't handle otherwise. To make things worse, these dropouts can even occur when freezing tracks (but not so often).

Also, I tried various buffer settings (in particular the ones recommended somewhere on this thread) and even changed the SSD (to make sure it's not a problem of my drive). Furthermore, this doesn't happen with any Kontakt libraries (even with busy projects with much more going on and many more samples to stream).

Also, I made sure to take care of various Windows settings which might cause such problems ...


----------



## Fleer

Good point. On a similar note, I'm wondering what would happen in my newly ordered M1 iMac (16GB RAM and 256GB SSD) when streaming BBCSO from an external Samsung SSD.
Would the Spitfire app use the iMac's internal SSD through memory swap when those 16GB of RAM run out? I surely hope not.


----------



## Brasart

mussnig said:


> Hey,
> 
> I just wanted to ask if anyone is using BBCSO with Ableton on a Windows machine. I am experiencing severe dropouts on export, even though the project is playing fine (CPU, RAM, Voice count etc. are all far from hitting any limits) when hitting "Play" in the DAW (I made some minimal projects to test this).
> 
> So what I think happens is that while rendering/exporting, the BBCSO plugin doesn't stream any samples from my SSD but only uses what's still available in the preload buffer. This is clearly visible from the task manager: there is some reading activity on my SSD during playback in the DAW (as expected) but not during export. The only solution I found so far is to force Ableton to use real-time rendering. But that's not really ideal because then you can't use some high quality mode in certain plug-ins which the CPU couldn't handle otherwise. To make things worse, these dropouts can even occur when freezing tracks (but not so often).
> 
> Also, I tried various buffer settings (in particular the ones recommended somewhere on this thread) and even changed the SSD (to make sure it's not a problem of my drive). Furthermore, this doesn't happen with any Kontakt libraries (even with busy projects with much more going on and many more samples to stream).
> 
> Also, I made sure to take care of various Windows settings which might cause such problems ...


I'm on macOS, but I had similar issues with BBCSO in Ableton back when I got it (drop-outs on export & freeze/flatten), I thought it was a CPU issue but it turns out I was using the vst3 version of BBCSO which wasn't working well at all.
All issues went away when I switched to the regular vst version, so I'd suggest trying that on your machine, and also avoiding any vst3 with Ableton — I think Ableton just doesn't handle well vst3s and I just completely stopped using any vst3 version of my plugins in there


----------



## mussnig

Brasart said:


> I'm on macOS, but I had similar issues with BBCSO in Ableton back when I got it (drop-outs on export & freeze/flatten), I thought it was a CPU issue but it turns out I was using the vst3 version of BBCSO which wasn't working well at all.
> All issues went away when I switched to the regular vst version, so I'd suggest trying that on your machine, and also avoiding any vst3 with Ableton — I think Ableton just doesn't handle well vst3s and I just completely stopped using any vst3 version of my plugins in there



Thank you so much - I will for sure try that!
Although, it's a pity if this were to solve the problem, since usually I really, really prefer the VST3 versions of my plugins due to the fact that they automatically provide all the parameters for host automation (I use them a lot since Ableton's way to natively edit Midi CCs is less than ideal).


----------



## mussnig

Brasart said:


> I'm on macOS, but I had similar issues with BBCSO in Ableton back when I got it (drop-outs on export & freeze/flatten), I thought it was a CPU issue but it turns out I was using the vst3 version of BBCSO which wasn't working well at all.
> All issues went away when I switched to the regular vst version, so I'd suggest trying that on your machine, and also avoiding any vst3 with Ableton — I think Ableton just doesn't handle well vst3s and I just completely stopped using any vst3 version of my plugins in there


I just tried it - works like a charm! Thank you so much - you saved me a lot of troubleshooting. I would have never thought it comes from VST3 vs VST2.

Also, to my surprise also the VST2 version automatically provides all parameters for host automation. Guess I will have to update my template now (which will be tedious but nevertheless necessary).


----------



## Zedcars




----------



## CT

Still using this library more than anything else, for now at least....

I needed to do some spacey textural stuff today and considered a few different options, even getting something new, but instead decided to just write in a certain way with BBCSO then do a bunch of stuff to the audio. Bit of that:




Needed to do a (bad) impression of certain (good) composers writing in an "old sci-fi" type style, today, as well. Bit of that:




Also, just for fun, I am using it to pretend I'm Michael Kamen doing orchestral arrangements for great songs, but nobody needs to hear that.


----------



## mybadmemory

Mike T said:


> Also, just for fun, I am using it to pretend I'm Michael Kamen doing orchestral arrangements for great songs, but nobody needs to hear that.


Well, please do share!


----------



## CT

mybadmemory said:


> Well, please do share!


As soon as Sting gets back to me.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Mike T said:


> Still using this library more than anything else, for now at least....
> 
> I needed to do some spacey textural stuff today and considered a few different options, even getting something new, but instead decided to just write in a certain way with BBCSO then do a bunch of stuff to the audio. Bit of that:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Needed to do a (bad) impression of certain (good) composers writing in an "old sci-fi" type style, today, as well. Bit of that:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, just for fun, I am using it to pretend I'm Michael Kamen doing orchestral arrangements for great songs, but nobody needs to hear that.



I'm British - why am I in space in particular?
(Great work, BTW)


----------



## CT

Alex Fraser said:


> I'm British - why am I in space in particular?


I think I had an absinthe-fueled vision of hiring the BBC Symphony for the inaugural performance at a new concert hall on Ganymede.


----------



## SupremeFist

Mike T said:


> I think I had an absinthe-fueled vision of hiring the BBC Symphony for the inaugural performance at a new concert hall on Ganymede.


This piece sounds really wonderful btw, to the extent that I guess you don't need Landforms.  Pro upgrade at the end of the year for me for sure. Not so much to get a "better" symphonic orchestral sound but for working with close & stereo mics to do non-traditional stuff like this it sounds extremely useful.


----------



## CT

SupremeFist said:


> I guess you don't need Landforms.


Dude that's something I've been grappling with while doing this processed-orchestral thing so thanks for reassuring me, haha. It's hard to reproduce some of the really far out performance techniques in libraries like that with more straight orchestral collections, but the actual sound shaping can be imitated and I love doing that myself.

That Slate+Ash one sounds phenomenal though, no question.


----------



## mussnig

Hi,

I have a probably very stupid question. I am writing something with BBCSO at the moment. While composing I just use Mix 1 and I will set mics etc. to taste afterwards, when the piece is written (two reasons: 1. to streamline the process and 2. because of RAM limitations I might need to freeze tracks to use enough mics in the end - hence I want to postpone this as long as possible).

Now I noticed that in my opinion the release tails of certain articulations (e.g. the end of a legato line) are too silent for my taste. Is this normal?

Below is an image: I resampled a solo horn Legato. The release tail is clearly visible in the waveform. Is it supposed to look like this?

Obviously, I know that I can add ambient mics and external reverb in the end. Still, out of the box it sounds a bit unnatural to me.


----------



## jaketanner

mussnig said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a probably very stupid question. I am writing something with BBCSO at the moment. While composing I just use Mix 1 and I will set mics etc. to taste afterwards, when the piece is written (two reasons: 1. to streamline the process and 2. because of RAM limitations I might need to freeze tracks to use enough mics in the end - hence I want to postpone this as long as possible).
> 
> Now I noticed that in my opinion the release tails of certain articulations (e.g. the end of a legato line) are too silent for my taste. Is this normal?
> 
> Below is an image: I resampled a solo horn Legato. The release tail is clearly visible in the waveform. Is it supposed to look like this?
> 
> Obviously, I know that I can add ambient mics and external reverb in the end. Still, out of the box it sounds a bit unnatural to me.


Not sure i am following the exact issue. The tail end should not decay on its own unless you use dynamics to soften it. Like if you hold out a legato line, it will hold indefinitely. Also in the picture you seem to have automation at the end. What happens when you bypass the automation? 

You can also try using the TREE mics instead of MIX 1...I find them to be more true to a natural sound and pan than the MIX 1 position. The RAM should be about the same as MIX 1, but a bit nicer tone. (although lower in volume).


----------



## mussnig

jaketanner said:


> Not sure i am following the exact issue. The tail end should not decay on its own unless you use dynamics to soften it. Like if you hold out a legato line, it will hold indefinitely. Also in the picture you seem to have automation at the end. What happens when you bypass the automation?
> 
> You can also try using the TREE mics instead of MIX 1...I find them to be more true to a natural sound and pan than the MIX 1 position. The RAM should be about the same as MIX 1, but a bit nicer tone. (although lower in volume).


What I mean is that at the end of a sustained note (like in the picture), the note off message triggers a release tail. However, that tail seems to be too low in volume in comparison to the sustained note right until the note off message.

Yes, in my picture there is some dynamics automation but obviously I played around with it a lot (also bypassing it) to see how it behaves. In the upper dynamics I have the feeling that the release tail sounds a little bit more realistic. Still a tad too low in my opinion.

Also thanks for the tip regarding the tree mics. Still has the same problem in my opinion.


----------



## jaketanner

mussnig said:


> the note off message triggers a release tail


What instrument?


----------



## mussnig

jaketanner said:


> What instrument?


The example above is from the Solo Horn. But I also noticed it with some Strings Legatos ...


----------



## jaketanner

mussnig said:


> The example above is from the Solo Horn. But I also noticed it with some Strings Legatos ...


When I tried it with strings, mix 1, I noticed different lengths at different dynamics. Could this be the case? It’s not a perfect library for sure.


----------



## CT

Release samples are weird and one of the things that often bug me with any library. In the case of BBCSO I agree that for many contexts the default 50% release setting is too abrupt. It can work for faster or more accented parts but otherwise doesn't feel natural so I usually go between 50% and 100% accordingly. Unfortunately, this can't be adjusted for everything, including legato patches.


----------



## mussnig

jaketanner said:


> When I tried it with strings, mix 1, I noticed different lengths at different dynamics. Could this be the case? It’s not a perfect library for sure.


Yeah, I guess I will need to use a bit of additional reverb ...


----------



## mussnig

Mike T said:


> Release samples are weird and one of the things that often bug me with any library. In the case of BBCSO I agree that for many contexts the default 50% release setting is too abrupt. It can work for faster or more accented parts but otherwise doesn't feel natural so I usually go between 50% and 100% accordingly. Unfortunately, this can't be adjusted for everything, including legato patches.


Thank you - I'm sooo stupid. I completely forgot about the Release slider. For some reason I didn't see it ...


----------



## mybadmemory

I always turn up the release on longs in all spitfire libraries tbh. For some reason their default always seem to cut the notes in a very abrupt way.


----------



## mussnig

Mike T said:


> Release samples are weird and one of the things that often bug me with any library. In the case of BBCSO I agree that for many contexts the default 50% release setting is too abrupt. It can work for faster or more accented parts but otherwise doesn't feel natural so I usually go between 50% and 100% accordingly. Unfortunately, this can't be adjusted for everything, including legato patches.







But "Release" is not available here?


----------



## mybadmemory

mussnig said:


> But "Release" is not available here?


Depends on the articulation chosen! Select longs and it will become available.


----------



## mussnig

mybadmemory said:


> Depends on the articulation chosen! Select longs and it will become available.


Yeah, but this is the end of a Legato line ...


----------



## mussnig

And now I'm loading a Trumpets a3 patch and there is simply too much release tail and I can't change it ...


----------



## jaketanner

mussnig said:


> And now I'm loading a Trumpets a3 patch and there is simply too much release tail and I can't change it ...


did you check the tree mic? MIX 1 has a lot of ambient mics blended in also.


----------



## mussnig

jaketanner said:


> did you check the tree mic? MIX 1 has a lot of ambient mics blended in also.


Yes, yes. It's just that the release tails seem to be quite inconsistent and it's also a bit strange that you can't adjust them for the legatos.


----------



## jaketanner

mussnig said:


> Yes, yes. It's just that the release tails seem to be quite inconsistent and it's also a bit strange that you can't adjust them for the legatos.


legato in general is tied to the next note, so no release is necessary. For the ending long notes, you would switch to a longs patch like any other articulation. I believe that is the intention here. Not all long notes are legato so may need to use the longs articulation. Form what I've gathered from SF...is that the longs tend to sound fuller anyway. The legatos are sometimes over-processed.


----------



## mussnig

jaketanner said:


> legato in general is tied to the next note, so no release is necessary. For the ending long notes, you would switch to a longs patch like any other articulation. I believe that is the intention here. Not all long notes are legato so may need to use the longs articulation. Form what I've gathered from SF...is that the longs tend to sound fuller anyway. The legatos are sometimes over-processed.


Yes, it's clear that I don't need a release tail if there is a transition - so this only concerns the last note in a connected line. So how am I supposed to do that with a long? Could you describe this for me please?
The way I see it, I have two options. I could replace the last note of a legato line with a long but then I'm going to be missing the legato transition towards the the last note. Or I could try to blend (or crossfade) legato with long for the last note but this is hard to do for a single instrument patch (e.g. solo horn).

Obviously, in my opinion the last note of a legato line is supposed to have a release tail like any other long note. And indeed it seems to have one in BBCSO but it's just not controllable via the release slider/knob.


----------



## jaketanner

mussnig said:


> The way I see it, I have two options. I could replace the last note of a legato line with a long but then I'm going to be missing the legato transition towards the the last note. Or I could try to blend (or crossfade) legato with long for the last note but this is hard to do for a single instrument patch (e.g. solo horn).


Same as i would do...if the tail is that exposed and bothers you...it might be worth doing the little extra. I would hope that the next update will address this issue, as well as give us legato 9extended) for strings and stop this overlay which drives me nuts.. LOL. There are quirks for sure...but overall, it's one of the best libraries I have and use it all the time. 

For an alternative suggestion...if at all possible on a solo horn, I tend to use VSL or Century brass (or some other library)...VSL blends perfectly because it's dry and I can make it fit. I know it's not what you asked, but it is another option...not so much on ensemble patches though. Sorry... Let us know what you decided.


----------



## mussnig

jaketanner said:


> Same as i would do...if the tail is that exposed and bothers you...it might be worth doing the little extra. I would hope that the next update will address this issue, as well as give us legato 9extended) for strings and stop this overlay which drives me nuts.. LOL. There are quirks for sure...but overall, it's one of the best libraries I have and use it all the time.
> 
> For an alternative suggestion...if at all possible on a solo horn, I tend to use VSL or Century brass (or some other library)...VSL blends perfectly because it's dry and I can make it fit. I know it's not what you asked, but it is another option...not so much on ensemble patches though. Sorry... Let us know what you decided.


Thank you! Maybe I will do some extra volume automation for the release tails (perhaps I will bounce to audio to better see what I'm doing).


----------



## Flyo

Reading this last post confirm what im experienced with BBC to, the Legato on Strings leave me desire an a imminent update with Extended Legato apart from just Legato, this actual legato just doesn’t work like any other I have. Between a frase the next note after the silence comes with a attack that don’t belong to in any mean. It’s drive mad. Hope they will bring another update with extended for every instrument


----------



## Flyo

Also without release control on legatos do even more complicate all. The release tail it’s way far to short!


----------



## CT

mussnig said:


> But "Release" is not available here?


Yeah, that's annoying. Like I mentioned, no release controls on the legatos, I assume because of the legato programming, but there are some other places where it's not adjustable that don't make as much sense to me. Anyway, the way I'd work around it, if you really need a note at the end of a legato phrase to taper out more than the patch allows you to by default, is to either use expression to fake more of a smooth stop, or switch to the long patch for the last note and sacrifice the previous legato transition.


----------



## mybadmemory

Flyo said:


> Reading this last post confirm what im experienced with BBC to, the Legato on Strings leave me desire an a imminent update with Extended Legato apart from just Legato, this actual legato just doesn’t work like any other I have. Between a frase the next note after the silence comes with a attack that don’t belong to in any mean. It’s drive mad. Hope they will bring another update with extended for every instrument


Its controlled by velocity. Just lower the velocity of the first note in a legato phrase to get a soft attack and no spiccato overlay.


----------



## Flyo

mybadmemory said:


> Its controlled by velocity. Just lower the velocity of the first note in a legato phrase to get a soft attack and no spiccato overlay.


Yes programming begins to get sound as a traditional legato, and for tperform it’s even more annoying. I would prefer that was extended and traditional flow for Strings to


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I discovered something interesting ...

I wanted to get rid of all the microphones I don't use and stick to Mix 1 only. There is an impulse response ("MV_IR" or something like this) in each sample folder. I deleted it by accident and loaded the instruments in my DAW, and really prefer the sound without the IR loaded. I always found the brass and the woodwinds too wet. This has nothing to do with the reverb option, the IR is apparently mixed in in the background.

Could someone check this out? Would be nice too know if it's not only me imagining.


----------



## Composer 2021

Does anyone have an Logic articulation set file for BBCSO Pro created after the recent update?


----------



## Gil

Composer 2021 said:


> Does anyone have an Logic articulation set file for BBCSO Pro created after the recent update?


Hello,

Please check:
- Articulation Sets for Logic Pro X
- BBCSO Core UACC Logic Articulations and single instrument patches

Tell us if it works for you please 

Regards,
Gil.


----------



## CT

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I discovered something interesting ...
> 
> I wanted to get rid of all the microphones I don't use and stick to Mix 1 only. There is an impulse response ("MV_IR" or something like this) in each sample folder. I deleted it by accident and loaded the instruments in my DAW, and really prefer the sound without the IR loaded. I always found the brass and the woodwinds too wet. This has nothing to do with the reverb option, the IR is apparently mixed in in the background.
> 
> Could someone check this out? Would be nice too know if it's not only me imagining.


I'm not sure about this. I thought the IR files might, in addition to the overall plugin reverb, be related to the "_fp_ Hall Trigger" function found in Spitfire's Kontakt legatos, which adds some tail when you very rapidly drop to lower dynamics. I removed the files, but the legato patches (and the normal longs, frustratingly) still display that behavior, which is actually kind of disappointing because I find it a little clunky and usually turn that off in Kontakt (no option to do so here), so wouldn't have minded being able to circumvent that in BBCSO. I guess that bit of programming relies on manipulation of RTs, not IRs?

I can't say I'm noticing any other differences after removing the files, other than the plugin reverb not working, but I don't use that anyway so I won't even bother to bring the IR files back from a backup. It _just might_ be your imagination after all....


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Mike T said:


> I'm not sure about this. I thought the IR files might, in addition to the overall plugin reverb, be related to the "_fp_ Hall Trigger" function found in Spitfire's Kontakt legatos, which adds some tail when you very rapidly drop to lower dynamics. I removed the files, but the legato patches (and the normal longs, frustratingly) still display that behavior, which is actually kind of disappointing because I find it a little clunky and usually turn that off in Kontakt (no option to do so here), so wouldn't have minded being able to circumvent that in BBCSO. I guess that bit of programming relies on manipulation of RTs, not IRs?
> 
> I can't say I'm noticing any other differences after removing the files, other than the plugin reverb not working, but I don't use that anyway so I won't even bother to bring the IR files back from a backup. It _just might_ be your imagination after all....


Thanks for trying and giving feedback! I'm still indecisive... I _really_ think I'm hearing drier woodwinds and brass (the effect isn't noticable on strings at all). But maybe because I _want to_ believe it, too.


----------



## icecoolpool

Pro Users:

If hard drive space was limited, what microphone positions would you choose to keep?


----------



## CT

Close, Tree, Outriggers, Ambient, Stereo, Mids.


----------



## Hadrondrift

I removed all spill mics, that reduces the size of the samples to 442 GB.


----------



## mussnig

Mike T said:


> Close, Tree, Outriggers, Ambient, Stereo, Mids.


This! (Although I am not completely sold on the Mids, yet). In particular the Stereo mics are fantastic.

And in case there is still space left, I would probably also keep the full Spill Mics and/or the Leaders.


----------



## Zedcars

Hadrondrift said:


> I removed all spill mics, that reduces the size of the samples to 442 GB.


They are the best ones in terms of adding realism IMO.


----------



## icecoolpool

Zedcars said:


> They are the best ones in terms of adding realism IMO.


Do you use them individually or do you simply use the spill full mix?


----------



## Zedcars

icecoolpool said:


> Do you use them individually or do you simply use the spill full mix?


Full usually. I haven't really experimented much with the individual ones yet.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Is the *BBCSO Pro* library your main Go-To orchestral library for composing in your template, you then complement it with other libraries on an as needed basis ? 

Thanks.


----------



## Fleer

For me it’s the orchestral foundation from which I start, often not needing anything else (except a grand piano).


----------



## muziksculp

Fleer said:


> For me it’s the orchestral foundation from which I start, often not needing anything else (except a grand piano).


Thanks !

I Love your reply.

I have decided to make the BBCSO Pro my Go-To composing library. Just finished making the template last week, and so far I'm delighted by what this library offers.

I tend to need some more perc. instruments to complement it. But in general it covers a lot of ground. I also would have liked to have a full strings ensemble patch, but I can easily use one from another library mainly for fast sketching purposes.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## mybadmemory

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is the *BBCSO Pro* library your main Go-To orchestral library for composing in your template, you then complement it with other libraries on an as needed basis ?
> 
> Thanks.


Yes. I try to stick to it as much as I can. When I run into something it can’t pull off I reach for CSS for strings, Berlin Soloists for winds, and CineSamples for brass and percussion.


----------



## Bereckis

muziksculp said:


> ut in general it covers a lot of ground. I also would have liked to have a full strings ensemble patch











DiscoverStation and CoreStation for Unify | BBCSO - PluginGuru.com


Flexible Drum Loop library for PlugInGuru Unify 1.1 with 450 RX2 Grooves and more!




www.pluginguru.com


----------



## Fleer

Yeah, that Unify approach is pretty amazing!


----------



## jaketanner

For overall straight up orchestral music, BBC Pro is great. I have also used it successfully for a more modern, middle eastern influenced score without having to embellish anything. I did add an alto flute and euphonium (which are missing), but no other external library...unless BBC didn't have the instrument. In other words, no layering.


----------



## Fleer

Mmmmm … would love an alto flute.


----------



## muziksculp

I'm not sure I need something like Unify, although, I didn't check what Unify offers for the BBCSO Library. Would I really benefit form it ? 

I'm hosting the BBCSO Pro via VE-Pro 7, on a slave PC, it's not on my DAW PC. Would I still be able to use Unify if I decided to ? 

Thanks.


----------



## Fleer

I don't know about the latter, but I love Unify (with CoreStation on BBCSO Pro) for allowing me to "play" BBCSO as a multi-threaded instrument more easily than I could have imagined. This vid may be explanatory:


----------



## muziksculp

I checked what Unify offers, and I don't really think I need it, and honestly I don't want another layer of complexity interfering with my general workflow when using my BBCSO Pro template hosted via VE-Pro 7. So, I will pass on Unify. But Thanks for the recommendation anyways.


----------



## Fleer

Quite understandable. I’m looking forward to running BBCSO Pro on the next MacBook Pro when it gets launched this fall.


----------



## muziksculp

Fleer said:


> Quite understandable. I’m looking forward to running BBCSO Pro on the next MacBook Pro when it gets launched this fall.


I'm on Windows 10. Hosting the BBCSO Pro on two slave PCs. 

One slave PC for the Strings and Woodwinds, the second one for the Brass and Perc. , My Master PC running Studio One Pro 5.3 also Windows 10. using zero RAM to load the BBCSO Pro library on my Master PC. I'm very happy with this super efficient system.


----------



## Theladur

muziksculp said:


> I'm not sure I need something like Unify, although, I didn't check what Unify offers for the BBCSO Library. Would I really benefit form it ?


I don't know what unify is capable of, but with Studio One 5 (according to your signature), it is really easy to create your own playable ensemble instrument using the Studio One Multi-instrument function (define key regions for the Instruments, add staccato depending on velocity for the Instruments where no extended legato is available, add/change the cc behavior to shape the ensemble Sound, etc.).

This is really powerful in my opinion.
I also created my own Multi Instruments for the brass, where the cuivre Patch is mixed/layered with the (extended) legato Patches in the higher cc1 values, so that i have a playable brass patch including cuivre as the top layer.


----------



## jaketanner

one quick word about create an ensemble patch, versus using one that has been recorded as an ensemble...they are not going to be the same at all. There are some libraries that actually recorded the ensemble playing together...this is a much more useable sound...the other way, is simply a layering of patches which you can easily do in any DAW, but you won't get the homogenous sound of all strings recorded at once...But you can use an instrument track, then split out the MIDI channels, or group together multiple instances...but the easiest of course is to just use Kontakt in OMNI mode and create your own, IF that's what you want to do...BBC is not really made for that purpose though. I would use a dedicated library that has recorded ensembles.


----------



## Flyo

@spitefireaudio There will be a future update to bring on traditional legato and extended for Strings Section and Leaders to? As the newest last update addition on wood or brass.


----------



## muziksculp

Flyo said:


> @spitefireaudio There will be a future update to bring on traditional legato and extended for Strings Section and Leaders to? As the newest last update addition on wood or brass.


Are you referring to Performance Legato Patches for the string sections, and leaders ?


----------



## CT

I think the string leaders could definitely use some of the additional love that the other legatos got in the last update. Would be very nice to see that, and I think it would cement even more how dependable the library is.


----------



## Flyo

muziksculp said:


> Are you referring to Performance Legato Patches for the string sections, and leaders ?


There are Legato extended and just simply Legato with the last update for Woods or Brass but anyone on Strings. It is annoying the actual legato on Strings because of this. It will be so much easy to play or program with these updates


----------



## muziksculp

Mike T said:


> I think the string leaders could definitely use some of the additional love that the other legatos got in the last update. Would be very nice to see that, and I think it would cement even more how dependable the library is.


Oh.. I see, yes, they can surely get enhanced further via an update, and so could the String sections, but they are quite good already as far as performance legato functionality goes. (I ❤ this library, and would love it more if it gets some more TLC from SA).


----------



## mybadmemory

Flyo said:


> @spitefireaudio There will be a future update to bring on traditional legato and extended for Strings Section and Leaders to? As the newest last update addition on wood or brass.


They already function as the extended legatos. They can play both Staccato, legato, and portamento. It’s just the name that’s different for some reason.


----------



## Geomir

mybadmemory said:


> They already function as the extended legatos. They can play both Staccato, legato, and portamento. It’s just the name that’s different for some reason.


Yes, you're right about that, but what's missing is the normal (non-extended) legato option. In a flawless world that wouldn't a problem, but it happens to me also that some times even if you play the string patches with very low velocity, still you can hear the "staccato accent / attack", even if you are trying to avoid it.

With normal (non-extended) legato, it seems to my ears that the legato transitions for brass and woodwinds are more smooth and without any undesired accents. Let's hope that in a future update they will offer the same options for the strings.


----------



## mybadmemory

Geomir said:


> but it happens to me also that some times even if you play the string patches with very low velocity, still you can hear the "staccato accent / attack", even if you are trying to avoid it.


The staccato overlay is only there on non legato notes and the first note in a legato phrase. It’s never active in a legato transition. If you just turn the velocity all the way down for the first note (or the entire phrase) there should be no overlay anywhere.


----------



## Geomir

mybadmemory said:


> The staccato overlay is only there on non legato notes and the first note in a legato phrase. It’s never active in a legato transition. If you just turn the velocity all the way down for the first note (or the entire phrase) there should be no overlay anywhere.


Thanks for the tip, it seems that if you hit velocity below 10, then you can avoid the overlays. But I will check it when I go home, I remember having some troubles with that no matter how soft I was hitting the notes.


----------



## Flyo

Geomir said:


> Yes, you're right about that, but what's missing is the normal (non-extended) legato option. In a flawless world that wouldn't a problem, but it happens to me also that some times even if you play the string patches with very low velocity, still you can hear the "staccato accent / attack", even if you are trying to avoid it.
> 
> With normal (non-extended) legato, it seems to my ears that the legato transitions for brass and woodwinds are more smooth and without any undesired accents. Let's hope that in a future update they will offer the same options for the strings.


Exactly. And you need to turn down every first note to low for avoid the staccato. It’s really annoying for play and for program and switch to others strings libraries as a complement or others maneuvers. Traditional legato please


----------



## dcoscina

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is the *BBCSO Pro* library your main Go-To orchestral library for composing in your template, you then complement it with other libraries on an as needed basis ?
> 
> Thanks.


These days it seems to be especially for strings. I just love the sound and tone. Harp is terrific as well. And even the winds. Brass mutes are phenomenal and I use them a ton.


----------



## muziksculp

dcoscina said:


> These days it seems to be especially for strings. I just love the sound and tone. Harp is terrific as well. And even the winds. Brass mutes are phenomenal and I use them a ton.


Yes, the BBCSO Pro Harp has a magical sound to it, wonderful sound, and dynamic response when playing it.

The Strings, Woodwinds, and even Brass are great, as long as you are not trying to get too trailer brassy sounding with them. They are just perfect for classical sounding brass which are heard in many soundtracks, that don't need hyped brass.


----------



## icecoolpool

muziksculp said:


> Yes, the BBCSO Pro Harp has a magical sound to it, wonderful sound, and dynamic response when playing it.
> 
> The Strings, Woodwinds, and even Brass are great, as long as you are not trying to get too trailer brassy sounding with them. They are just perfect for classical sounding brass which are heard in many soundtracks, that don't need hyped brass.


I think the Harp may be the instrument that most benefits from a Pro upgrade. With mix 1 it can handle supplemental and background parts fine, but with Pro, I would have no problem using harp centre stage if needed.


----------



## Zedcars

Tip:

I am unsure if you guys have already thought of this yet (probably), but a quick way to purge the majority of the samples is to switch the instance or instances to "Discover" mode. This greatly reduces the used RAM. The great thing about this method is, thanks to SA "Mode Switching", all of the mic settings and articulations remain intact when you switch back to Core or Pro.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Love writing with this library


----------



## muziksculp

How I wish that the BBCSO Pro would have included Performance-Legato Strings Sordino patches .

The sordino texture of the strings sustains, and spicc. is so rich. ,What are the chances of this being added ? My guess very slim.

What are your thoughts on this ?


----------



## Flyo

muziksculp said:


> How I wish that the BBCSO Pro would have included Performance-Legato Strings Sordino patches .
> 
> The sordino texture of the strings sustains, and spicc. is so rich. ,What are the chances of this being added ? My guess very slim.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this ?


Great addition. I hope to see standar legato and extended on every string, sections and solo! Fir now every note attack comes with spiccato or stacc, unless you either program later and reduce every one first note of a phrase between 0 and 15 in velocity. Really annoying. The last update bring this new addition for Brass and Woods and this is so much helpful and easy to play and less in after programming


----------



## mussnig

muziksculp said:


> How I wish that the BBCSO Pro would have included Performance-Legato Strings Sordino patches .
> 
> The sordino texture of the strings sustains, and spicc. is so rich. ,What are the chances of this being added ? My guess very slim.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this ?


I honestly can't imagine that it will be added (in particular as a free update) unless it's scripted legato. Also it would be way easier to add a piano first (especially when one considers Covid restrictions).

By the way, that's an advantage of Kontakt, where you can usually easily add scripted legatos yourself (results vary of course).


----------



## Geomir

Maida Vale is officially closing, and this makes me worried about the future content updates (paid or free) of BBC SO. They also want to record a grand piano there, so it blends perfectly with the existing BBC SO, but they are not sure that they will manage to do it before the historic Studio-Hall closes forever.


----------



## muziksculp

Geomir said:


> Maida Vale is officially closing, and this makes me worried about the future content updates (paid or free) of BBC SO. They also want to record a grand piano there, so it blends perfectly with the existing BBC SO, but they are not sure that they will manage to do it before the historic Studio-Hall closes forever.


Do you know when they plan to officially close Maida Vale ? 

I really don't care about Piano, but having those sordino legato sections would be so awesome.

I'm also curious if SA is able to continue working on their AR-1 Modular Orchestra, and if they are making good progress with that project given the restrictions due to COVID in the U.K. 

I also find it a bit odd that they haven't released any new Expansions for AROOF for quite some time now.


----------



## RogiervG

even if they plan on a piano recorded there.. i highly doubt they will do it (even if they can record there still)
They moved on to other projects as their target (Abbey Road ONE series, incl. modular orchestra).
I only think they will do some patching here and there for BBCSO series from now on.


----------



## Wabashprof

The BBC announced it would close back in 2018 with a plan to shutter it by 2023. Preservationists objected and successfully added it to the "List of Buildings of Special Architectural or Historic Interest." The BBC is appealing that listing, but it's unclear where the process currently stands.

Regardless, the https://www.classical-music.com/news/bbc-concert-orchestra-relocating-to-a-new-location-outside-the-m25/ (BBC Symphony Orchestra will no longer use the venue), so it's unlikely Spitfire will be able to reassemble the orchestra to record again in that space.


----------



## Composer 2021

It won't be a big deal as long as Spitfire delivers on the idea of a BBCSO-like modular library recorded in Abbey Road (and doesn't have programming glitches). They could record a piano there.


----------



## muziksculp

BBCSO Pro Strings sound amazing !


----------



## Composer 2021

If it's just a piano that needs to be recorded there, then what's stopping them? They don't need a BBC musician to record it. Is it mainly the COVID lockdown that is stopping them?


----------



## Geomir

muziksculp said:


> Do you know when they plan to officially close Maida Vale ?
> 
> I really don't care about Piano, but having those sordino legato sections would be so awesome.
> 
> I'm also curious if SA is able to continue working on their AR-1 Modular Orchestra, and if they are making good progress with that project given the restrictions due to COVID in the U.K.
> 
> I also find it a bit odd that they haven't released any new Expansions for AROOF for quite some time now.


Most of the questions have been already answered, but here you can find the "official statement" about their hopes to record a grand piano for BBC SO:


----------



## muziksculp

I don't think we will see anything new added to the BBCSO Pro recorded in Maida Vale, I feel they have changed gears now, and are focused on Abbey Road 1, and the Modular Orchestra. Which I'm delighted to see realized as a full orchestra in the future, I don't know how the pace of development of this project is at this time, and how long it will take to get one of the modules released this year.


----------



## Fleer

IIRC, there’s still material from the original BBCSO recordings to be added.


----------



## muziksculp

Fleer said:


> IIRC, there’s still material from the original BBCSO recordings to be added.


Hmmm.... If so, what are they waiting for to add it ? 

I just hope they had recorded the String Sections Sordinos to add a Legato-Sordino Performance Patch to all the String sections. That would imho. make it a superb library for me.


----------



## Zedcars

Statement from Angus re: the MV piano:









BBC SO Piano?


Is the Piano patch still coming to the BBC SO, or has this changed?




community.spitfireaudio.com






> Hi @Aaron Moon and others on this thread. We understand that the addition of a Piano was alluded to in previous content online prior to 2020. However, due to the current restrictions in the UK, Maida Vale studios has been closed. This is also unfortunately coupled with the fact that Maida Vale is slowly being decommissioned, so we can no longer guarantee that a recording of a piano in the same place can take place.
> 
> That said, we would still love to add more additional content to BBC SO and are looking to get back into the studios as soon as it is safe to do so, and will update the community as and when any additional content will become available.


----------



## muziksculp

Damn COVID


----------



## muziksculp

Anyone try using this ? Although I'm not really liking the sound of the Sordino I hear in the video.


----------



## Markrs

Bernstein Candide Overture played by BBC SO Pro.


----------



## Markrs

Looks like BBC SO is in this year's Spitfire Summer Sale. If it is 40% off it is a bargain, it is still good value at 30% off


----------



## Zedcars

Markrs said:


> Looks like BBC SO is in this year's Spitfire Summer Sale. If it is 40% off it is a bargain, it is still good value at 30% off


Great. It’s that good a deal, I might just buy it again…


----------



## CT

I'm going to buy it again, in SSD form. I don't suppose those go on sale though.


----------



## Brasart

I think we also need to remember that recorded stuff can need 1 or 2 years to be added as an update, IIRC that was what happened with Albion ONE, and it's pretty much the same with the additional stuff (muted brass, bass flute, cimbasso... etc) we got; it just takes time to edit everything, especially with the number of mics for BBCSO, the release build gets editing priority and then updates are slower to come in. So a piano or any other stuff could already have been recorded, and is just waiting for editing work in the release pipeline


----------



## Micah Swigert

Markrs said:


> Bernstein Candide Overture played by BBC SO Pro.



Thanks for posting!


----------



## dzilizzi

Geomir said:


> Maida Vale is officially closing, and this makes me worried about the future content updates (paid or free) of BBC SO. They also want to record a grand piano there, so it blends perfectly with the existing BBC SO, but they are not sure that they will manage to do it before the historic Studio-Hall closes forever.


They did say they recorded a lot and there is likely a number of things that never made it into the BBCSO, either because they weren't good enough or because they ran out of time to add them. Did the bass flute, I think it was, ever get added? 

I don't think the piano was one of the instruments though.


----------



## Fleer

Looking forward to playing that flute as I just ordered an Akai EWI.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

dzilizzi said:


> Did the bass flute, I think it was, ever get added?


Yes. Bass flute got added, other additions were Cimbasso and muted brass articulations, as well as "extended" legato articulations for many instruments.
(Edit: The additional instruments are only available in the Pro Edition)


----------



## dzilizzi

Fleer said:


> Looking forward to playing that flute as I just ordered an Akai EWI.


I looked at one of those. Ended up getting one of the Tec things. Haven't quite figured out how to use it though. And my studio is still torn apart. Been waiting on my husband to have some time to fix the desk.


----------



## Fleer

dzilizzi said:


> I looked at one of those. Ended up getting one of the Tec things. Haven't quite figured out how to use it though.


I’m hoping it won’t be too difficult coming from a flute (traverso) as it should allow for flute (and other woodwind) fingering.


----------



## muziksculp

Regarding Flute fingerings, I'm a left-handed flute player, I had a custom made Silver Flute for me, I also play other types of flutes, one-keyed, and other types that have no keys, i.e. bamboo flutes, ..etc. 

So, sadly, I can't play any of the currently available Wind Controllers, since I have my right hand (closer to my mouth), above my left hand. the reverse of how right-hand players play. None of these breath controller makers bothered making a left-handed model for left-handed players like me. 

I tend to use the TEC2 breath controller, I also have the Hornberg Breath Controller, and the Leap-Motion for hand gesture controls.


----------



## Fleer

muziksculp said:


> So, sadly, I can't play any of the currently available Wind Controllers, since I have my right hand (closer to my mouth), above my left hand. the reverse of how right-hand players play. None of these breath controller makers bothered making a left-handed model for left-handed players like me.


Didn’t know about that. You would think they’d make a left-handed version, as guitar makers often do. Sad indeed.


----------



## jaketanner

Geomir said:


> Maida Vale is officially closing, and this makes me worried about the future content updates (paid or free) of BBC SO. They also want to record a grand piano there, so it blends perfectly with the existing BBC SO, but they are not sure that they will manage to do it before the historic Studio-Hall closes forever.


I think they should then take the VSL approach and sample the hall...this way they can create a simulated space...better than nothing.


----------



## jaketanner

Wabashprof said:


> Regardless, the https://www.classical-music.com/news/bbc-concert-orchestra-relocating-to-a-new-location-outside-the-m25/ (BBC Symphony Orchestra will no longer use the venue), so it's unlikely Spitfire will be able to reassemble the orchestra to record again in that space.


Seems like it was a bit of a mistake then...wish they would just finished it complete...where is the darn ALTO flute!! lol.


----------



## muziksculp

Fleer said:


> Didn’t know about that. You would think they’d make a left-handed version, as guitar makers often do. Sad indeed.


Yeah.. Actually, there was only one classical flute maker that made Left-Handed models, and it was just available three, or four years ago when I found out they existed. But non of the Classical Keyed Flute or even other Woodwind instrument makers bother making left handed models.


----------



## Fleer

muziksculp said:


> Yeah.. Actually, there was only one classical flute maker that made Left-Handed models, and it was just available three, or four years ago when I found out they existed. But non of the Classical Keyed Flute or even other Woodwind instrument makers bother making left handed models.


Then I’m happy my left-handed brother opted for classical guitar back in the day …


----------



## aaron73

40%!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Markrs

aaron73 said:


> 40%!!!!!!!!!


BBCS SO at 40% off it is a stellar deal!


----------



## stevebryson

dzilizzi said:


> I looked at one of those. Ended up getting one of the Tec things. Haven't quite figured out how to use it though. And my studio is still torn apart. Been waiting on my husband to have some time to fix the desk.





Fleer said:


> I’m hoping it won’t be too difficult coming from a flute (traverso) as it should allow for flute (and other woodwind) fingering.


I have both the EWI and the Tec. Maybe it's my (very limited) woodwinds experience but even though I'm mainly a keyboard player I find the EWI MUCH more natural and expressive than the Tec + keyboard. I use the EWI a lot, the Tec almost never. That's not to say that the Tec + keyboard couldn't be just as natural and expressive with practice, but it feels like it would take a LOT of practice.


----------



## Geomir

jaketanner said:


> I think they should then take the VSL approach and sample the hall...this way they can create a simulated space...better than nothing.


Now that's a nice idea! Actually this is the only way I could think of. Unless they can find another recording space that copies the exact size and characteristics of Maida Vale.


----------



## Geomir

dzilizzi said:


> They did say they recorded a lot and there is likely a number of things that never made it into the BBCSO, either because they weren't good enough or because they ran out of time to add them. Did the bass flute, I think it was, ever get added?
> 
> I don't think the piano was one of the instruments though.


No grand piano was ever recorded there, and now the chances are very slim. 

Even their Originals Series pianos (there are only so many of them, and all of them are so good and full of character!) are recorded anywhere else than Maida Vale.


----------



## aaron73

Geomir said:


> Now that's a nice idea! Actually this is the only way I could think of. Unless they can find another recording space that copies the exact size and characteristics of Maida Vale.


Sample the impulse response? 

1. Go to Maida Vale
2. Pop a balloon (or play a sine sweep 20-20k Hz)
3. Record the pop (or sweep) from all mic positions included in BBCSO
4. Convolve the sampled IR with a dry piano (or any instrument)

EDIT: Jake Tanner beat me to the punch a few comments ago, lol


----------



## jaketanner

aaron73 said:


> Sample the impulse response?
> 
> 1. Go to Maida Vale
> 2. Pop a balloon (or play a sine sweep 20-20k Hz)
> 3. Record the pop (or sweep) from all mic positions included in BBCSO
> 4. Convolve the sampled IR with a dry piano (or any instrument)
> 
> EDIT: Jake Tanner beat me to the punch a few comments ago, lol


Sorry


----------



## Markrs

even if spitfire doesn't do an IR of Maida Vale hopefully someone else will before it disappears.


----------



## Geomir

Markrs said:


> even if spitfire doesn't do an IR of Maida Vale hopefully someone else will before it disappears.


Even that option would be better than nothing.

But I don't think @jaketanner's example of VSL was a random one. It is not just a generic convolution reverb of the room, they have placed each and every one instrument to the right position on the stage. This means that each instrument has its own unique convolution reverb.

Plus, all possible parameters like position, rotation, width, sound frequency characteristics of the instrument or section were calculated and included in the final products. That's a huge task.

If Spitfire could do something so advanced like that, then we could really be talking about a realistic (as close as possible to reality) result, and offer its customers a perfect virtual Maida Vale Studio, thus opening the possibilities to enrich BBC SO with content updates, including new instruments and/or articulations, that blend perfectly with the existing ones.

(wtf that was a huge sentence - I can barely follow it myself!)


----------



## dzilizzi

stevebryson said:


> I have both the EWI and the Tec. Maybe it's my (very limited) woodwinds experience but even though I'm mainly a keyboard player I find the EWI MUCH more natural and expressive than the Tec + keyboard. I use the EWI a lot, the Tec almost never. That's not to say that the Tec + keyboard couldn't be just as natural and expressive with practice, but it feels like it would take a LOT of practice.


i've got arthritis in a number of my fingers and they don't always do what I want them to do. I wish I could try out an EWI because they are pretty pricey if I don't use it. Not to say the Tec was cheap, but worth experimenting with, especially for the Sample Modeling brass instruments.


----------



## VSriHarsha

dzilizzi said:


> i've got arthritis in a number of my fingers and they don't always do what I want them to do. I wish I could try out an EWI because they are pretty pricey if I don't use it. Not to say the Tec was cheap, but worth experimenting with, especially for the Sample Modeling brass instruments.


Hope your fingers get well @dzilizzi.

Are EWI & Tec are the Keyboard Controllers? Are not libraries, right?


----------



## Markrs

VSriHarsha said:


> Hope your fingers get well @dzilizzi.
> 
> Are EWI & Tec are the Keyboard Controllers? Are not libraries, right?


Breath controllers. With TEC it records your breath output and sends that out as a Midi CC. With EWI it is a digital wind instrument, so it can output notes as well as breath Midi CC


----------



## Zedcars

aaron73 said:


> Sample the impulse response?
> 
> 1. Go to Maida Vale
> 2. Pop a balloon (or play a sine sweep 20-20k Hz)
> 3. Record the pop (or sweep) from all mic positions included in BBCSO
> 4. Convolve the sampled IR with a dry piano (or any instrument)
> 
> EDIT: Jake Tanner beat me to the punch a few comments ago, lol


Your answer was a bit more detailed than mine… 



Zedcars said:


> Can’t we just sneak in there at night with a dictaphone, clap a few times and leave? 🤔


----------



## Zedcars

Pretty sure they already have an IR of Maida Vale which is being used in the plugin. If not then why are there files called MV_IR in the installation?


----------



## Zedcars

Geomir said:


> No grand piano was ever recorded there, and now the chances are very slim.


CH had a track called BBCSO Piano in one of his Logic projects. It sure is a mystery why it’s never seen the light of day.


----------



## mybadmemory

Zedcars said:


> Pretty sure they already have an IR of Maida Vale which is being used in the plugin. If not then why are there files called MV_IR in the installation?


I suspect the same, but that it’s used for the additional reverb, and not for the default sound.


----------



## CT

I have been a little frustrated recently by this library, instead dabbling with some old stuff I used to use which is on paper more "flexible," and even looking at getting newer VIs that follow the same idea.

While the results those other libraries yield initially seem promising and revelatory, nagging weaknesses quickly make themselves known as well, so I forced myself to tackle an excerpt I'd been testing them with using BBCSO instead, just to see how unwieldy and clumsy it would feel in comparison.

The answer is... a little bit, but not as much as I expected... and it just sounds so much more like an actual performance (granted, a poor one, as led by me) than what the others are capable of, with much less effort.


...and for the reverb-allergic (but come on, this piece calls for it):


And yeah, a piano would be nice. A mark tree as well. One more dynamic on everything while you're at it.


----------



## stevebryson

dzilizzi said:


> i've got arthritis in a number of my fingers and they don't always do what I want them to do. I wish I could try out an EWI because they are pretty pricey if I don't use it. Not to say the Tec was cheap, but worth experimenting with, especially for the Sample Modeling brass instruments.


It's really inspiring that you're not letting that stop your music. I've had hints of arthritis, but not too bad so far. The TEC is definitely workable - it's its own instrument, with its own techniques. 

Wishing you well...


----------



## mybadmemory

Mike T said:


> and it just sounds so much more like an actual performance (granted, a poor one, as led by me) than what the others are capable of, with much less effort.


Thats exactly what i find with BBCSO as well. Sure it doesn't have any rewarding ensemble patches, it forces you to use actual sections, the player and loading is a little slow, and you can't purge articulations easily. But is just sounds much more real than anything else I've tried. And with less stuff going on too.


----------



## Brasart

Mike T said:


> The answer is... a little bit, but not as much as I expected... and it just sounds so much more like an actual performance (granted, a poor one, as led by me) than what the others are capable of, with much less effort.


You're too hard on yourself Mike, you always share great snippets of your work, and I always enjoy hearing them!


----------



## dzilizzi

VSriHarsha said:


> Hope your fingers get well @dzilizzi.
> 
> Are EWI & Tec are the Keyboard Controllers? Are not libraries, right?


As a singer, breath controllers should be easy to use. I think I need to figure out how to get it set up thought. It wasn't working the way I thought it would, but I think once I figure out how to set the controls, it should be good. 

The EWI is more like playing a wind/brass instrument. The Tec needs a keyboard to go with it.


----------



## dzilizzi

stevebryson said:


> It's really inspiring that you're not letting that stop your music. I've had hints of arthritis, but not too bad so far. The TEC is definitely workable - it's its own instrument, with its own techniques.
> 
> Wishing you well...


Thank you. Most days it isn't too bad, other than just stiff and a little swollen It is why I use a lot of midi builder programs - they sure help for those of use who can't really play well. Although I can do a lot with Cubase with the chord track and all. And then just draw it in with the mouse. Have to say, technology makes things easier all the time.


----------



## CT

mybadmemory said:


> Thats exactly what i find with BBCSO as well. Sure it doesn't have any rewarding ensemble patches, it forces you to use actual sections, the player and loading is a little slow, and you can't purge articulations easily. But is just sounds much more real than anything else I've tried. And with less stuff going on too.


The player has been particularly sluggish for me recently, can't remember if there was a corresponding update or something, but that is certainly part of the frustration. I really hope they continue to streamline things.

Also noticed the plugin no longer remembers the setting to not load any instrument by default, which definitely contributes to its current slowness.


----------



## mybadmemory

Mike T said:


> The player has been particularly sluggish for me recently, can't remember if there was a corresponding update or something, but that is certainly part of the frustration. I really hope they continue to streamline things.


Yeah! If the player and loading was snappy, and you could alt-click articulations to purge them instead of having to go into the editor and remove them completely, it would all be so much more rewarding to use. The sound is already there.


----------



## CT

I know nothing about how it works, but it should be possible to rectify. It isn't a Spitfire Player specific issue for me, as EWC moves very smoothly for instance. It's just the BBCSO plugin.


----------



## dcoscina

Mike T said:


> I have been a little frustrated recently by this library, instead dabbling with some old stuff I used to use which is on paper more "flexible," and even looking at getting newer VIs that follow the same idea.
> 
> While the results those other libraries yield initially seem promising and revelatory, nagging weaknesses quickly make themselves known as well, so I forced myself to tackle an excerpt I'd been testing them with using BBCSO instead, just to see how unwieldy and clumsy it would feel in comparison.
> 
> The answer is... a little bit, but not as much as I expected... and it just sounds so much more like an actual performance (granted, a poor one, as led by me) than what the others are capable of, with much less effort.
> 
> View attachment 54326
> 
> 
> ...and for the reverb-allergic (but come on, this piece calls for it):
> 
> View attachment 54327
> 
> 
> And yeah, a piano would be nice. A mark tree as well. One more dynamic on everything while you're at it.


Gotta give you propers for the Mahler. Nice work


----------



## VSriHarsha

dzilizzi said:


> As a singer, breath controllers should be easy to use. I think I need to figure out how to get it set up thought. It wasn't working the way I thought it would, but I think once I figure out how to set the controls, it should be good.
> 
> The EWI is more like playing a wind/brass instrument. The Tec needs a keyboard to go with it.


That’s really great @dzilizzi ! I am a Singer too. The Breath controllers differ from male & female. I mean if buying, should look for things like? What IS the best part of it, you think, for Singers?


----------



## VSriHarsha

dzilizzi said:


> Thank you. Most days it isn't too bad, other than just stiff and a little swollen It is why I use a lot of midi builder programs - they sure help for those of use who can't really play well.
> Although I can do a lot with Cubase with the chord track and all. And then just draw it in with the mouse. Have to say, technology makes things easier all the time.


Pretty challenging thing you’re doing. Yes & really thanks a Lot to the growing Technology.


----------



## dzilizzi

VSriHarsha said:


> That’s really great @dzilizzi ! I am a Singer too. The Breath controllers differ from male & female. I mean if buying, should look for things like? What IS the best part of it, you think, for Singers?


You should watch some of the videos of people who use it. I don't think it is male female or I am in trouble, because I mostly see males using it. 

Guy Michelmore has a video where he uses the Tec. I can't find it though or I would link it.


----------



## stevebryson

dzilizzi said:


> You should watch some of the videos of people who use it. I don't think it is male female or I am in trouble, because I mostly see males using it.
> 
> Guy Michelmore has a video where he uses the Tec. I can't find it though or I would link it.


This one? It's a really good video, inspiring me to try harder with the Tec.


----------



## dzilizzi

stevebryson said:


> This one? It's a really good video, inspiring me to try harder with the Tec.



Yes - thank you for finding it!


----------



## VSriHarsha

dzilizzi said:


> You should watch some of the videos of people who use it. I don't think it is male female or I am in trouble, because I mostly see males using it.
> 
> Guy Michelmore has a video where he uses the Tec. I can't find it though or I would link it.


Lol no worries! Thanks I didn’t know Guy actually did a video about it I will check it.


----------



## ummon

I'm getting BBCSO Pro and I was thinking if it's possible to split library by moving obsolete mic signals to another location? I used BBCSO Pro in a project earlier this year in other studio and learned to like only handful of mic signals. At the moment I'm working at home with my macbook pro which doesn't have enough space for the whole library. It would be great to customize library and use only what is needed. I read somewhere there might be problems with Spitfire app if the library location is changed?


----------



## mybadmemory

ummon said:


> I'm getting BBCSO Pro and I was thinking if it's possible to split library by moving obsolete mic signals to another location? I used BBCSO Pro in a project earlier this year in other studio and learned to like only handful of mic signals. At the moment I'm working at home with my macbook pro which doesn't have enough space for the whole library. It would be great to customize library and use only what is needed. I read somewhere there might be problems with Spitfire app if the library location is changed?


You can always just delete the mic signals you’re not using! They have a guide in their FAQ.


----------



## ummon

mybadmemory said:


> You can always just delete the mic signals you’re not using! They have a guide in their FAQ.


That's good. So I can delete files from the ssd? What about moving library between two ssd (if i'm re-organizing later) is that allowed?

Edit: Just found all the answers from the FAQ


----------



## Theladur

ummon said:


> I'm getting BBCSO Pro and I was thinking if it's possible to split library by moving obsolete mic signals to another location?


You can actually have different mic signals in different locations, i.e. have the main mic signals on a fast ssd, and move mic signals you are using less to a slower hdd for example.

On windows, under "*C:/Users/[username]/AppData/Roaming/Spitfire Audio/Settings*" -> Open up the Spitfire.Properties file using word pad. Under the sample locations you will see a path for your samples drive used for installing. Place a comma after the file path and identically underneath, rewrite a new path to your 2nd drive. Save the file. This will allow BBCSO to read the two locations.


----------



## ummon

Theladur said:


> You can actually have different mic signals in different locations, i.e. have the main mic signals on a fast ssd, and move mic signals you are using less to a slower hdd for example.
> 
> On windows, under "*C:/Users/[username]/AppData/Roaming/Spitfire Audio/Settings*" -> Open up the Spitfire.Properties file using word pad. Under the sample locations you will see a path for your samples drive used for installing. Place a comma after the file path and identically underneath, rewrite a new path to your 2nd drive. Save the file. This will allow BBCSO to read the two locations.


Great, thanks for the advice!


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## RogiervG

muziksculp said:


>



nice but won't work well with bbc, since the horns e.g. are very weird in higher velocities (sizzle too much already too soon) doing this on a low velocity, will give a weird effect, since it does not correlate to the actual blowing pressure (if you know what i mean)
Abbey road one has different dynamics and programming.. so that works better.


----------



## SupremeFist

BBCSO (Pro) does not remember my preference for default player zoom: I keep setting it to 1.5 (ie 150%) and pressing save but whenever I reload the project, or load a new instance, it's all back to 100%. Is this a known issue or am I doing something wrong? (Latest Logic/ Big Sur.)


----------



## Flyo

Pliss pliss update Strings with Legato and Extended Legato to! @Spitfire Team @SpitfireSupport


----------



## becolossal

SupremeFist said:


> BBCSO (Pro) does not remember my preference for default player zoom: I keep setting it to 1.5 (ie 150%) and pressing save but whenever I reload the project, or load a new instance, it's all back to 100%. Is this a known issue or am I doing something wrong? (Latest Logic/ Big Sur.)


I’ve had this issue forever. I put in a ticket a while back because it won’t save any of my settings, so I’m stuck waiting for Violins 1 to load every time I fire up the plug-in outside of a template. I’m still on Mojave.


----------



## aaron73

Zedcars said:


> Pretty sure they already have an IR of Maida Vale which is being used in the plugin. If not then why are there files called MV_IR in the installation?


Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking. Same with the Air Studios IR in Eric Whitacre choir, I notice. So, is there a way to use this reverb on generic dry samples to at least get a *taste* of Maida Vale on, say, a piano that we want to pair with BBCSO?


----------



## CT

Still feeling a little stifled by this library's somewhat narrow potential for expressivity, and looking into radical (for me) alternatives... meanwhile, another imitation "1990s" theme I wrote about ten years ago was pretty well-served by it.


----------



## Zedcars

aaron73 said:


> Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking. Same with the Air Studios IR in Eric Whitacre choir, I notice. So, is there a way to use this reverb on generic dry samples to at least get a *taste* of Maida Vale on, say, a piano that we want to pair with BBCSO?


It’s not something we can use separately outside the plugin, without doing things that are forbidden under the EULA (eg reverse engineer). The only other ways would be a future audio-in capability of the plugin, or a separate IR plugin product featuring Maida Vale. None of those things seem very likely to me, but you never know.


----------



## zwhita

SupremeFist said:


> BBCSO (Pro) does not remember my preference for default player zoom: I keep setting it to 1.5 (ie 150%) and pressing save but whenever I reload the project, or load a new instance, it's all back to 100%. Is this a known issue or am I doing something wrong? (Latest Logic/ Big Sur.)


I don't own a Mac, but this sounds like a permissions issue for the .settings file. On PC, it's located at
\Users\**Username**\AppData\Roaming\Spitfire Audio\Settings
"Spitfire.properties" file there will contain the path information for patches, presets and samples.


----------



## becolossal

zwhita said:


> I don't own a Mac, but this sounds like a permissions issue for the .settings file. On PC, it's located at
> \Users\**Username**\AppData\Roaming\Spitfire Audio\Settings
> "Spitfire.properties" file there will contain the path information for patches, presets and samples.


It seems to be an issue outside that. Spitfire tried to configure a custom Settings file for me. I also tried to make modifications. It didn’t seem to work. Not a massive deal (at least patch wise) once using a template, but still somewhat annoying.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Just wanted to revive this on the topic of mic signals. I've always blended my own or used mixes so far, usually typical tree/close/outrigger/spill of some kind. But today I started making a template of BBC Pro using only the Mono mic signals to give it a vintage feel and it sounds so good. So much softer and quieter but in a good way. Anyone else use the mono only on any mixes? I'm currently really digging it.


----------



## Aldunate

Is it CINEMATIC though?


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Here is a quick sketch with just the mono mics and a dash of the spill to give it a slightly live feel


View attachment BBC Mono Idea 2.mp3


----------



## Brasart

Baronvonheadless said:


> Here is a quick sketch with just the mono mics and a dash of the spill to give it a slightly live feel
> 
> 
> View attachment BBC Mono Idea 2.mp3


Sounds pretty cool indeed, never tried to write something using only the mono mic, but I'll keep in mind that it can sound like that if I ever need "that" sound, so thanks!


----------



## Karmand

Baronvonheadless said:


> Here is a quick sketch with just the mono mics and a dash of the spill to give it a slightly live feel
> 
> 
> View attachment BBC Mono Idea 2.mp3


I love this idea and appreciate the exploration. Art. Kudos. I agree, small mixing, could be a video game time period piece or a B&W movie track. 

What I am exploring is the close mic (mono in placement in the stereo field) with a sample from a different lib but only using the surround type (out rigger, balcony or wider or further). The one lib accented by another lib but only using separate and opposite mics.


----------



## cedricm

What do you think, Upgrade BBCSO Core to Pro for €275: Yay or Nay?


----------



## Fleer

Oh yay


----------



## mybadmemory

cedricm said:


> What do you think, Upgrade BBCSO Core to Pro for €275: Yay or Nay?


I’m very happy with pro. I’ve deleted all other libraries from my starting template. If you like core, but miss the the extra instruments and the ability to get a mix that is less distant, and more upfront and detailed, pro delivers just that. I kind of wish I had just upgraded to pro sooner instead of trying to supplement core with a number of other libraries like I did.


----------



## jaketanner

cedricm said:


> What do you think, Upgrade BBCSO Core to Pro for €275: Yay or Nay?


If you use BBC often or want to use it lore, yes. The mix mic is very limiting. You will have a world of possibilities with pro.


----------



## mussnig

cedricm said:


> What do you think, Upgrade BBCSO Core to Pro for €275: Yay or Nay?


Very much worth the money considering that you also get the string leaders.


----------



## Colin66

Would BBCSO Pro be considered as the only orchestra you need? Is it complete enough that no other orchestra product is required?


----------



## muziksculp

Colin66 said:


> Would BBCSO Pro be considered as the only orchestra you need? Is it complete enough that no other orchestra product is required?


BBCSO Pro is the foundation of my orchestral template, I then complement it on an as needed basis with other libraries, be they orchestral, or other types of libraries.

I have the BBCSO Pro library hosted on two slave PCs (Strings + Woodwinds on Slave PC1, Brass + Perc. on Slave PC2). using VE-Pro 7, so my DAW is totally at ease, and I can load all the complementing libraries when needed on my Master PC, this system works perfectly for me, it's an ideal strategy for my needs.


----------



## Fleer

muziksculp said:


> BBCSO Pro is the foundation of my orchestral template, I then complement it on an as needed basis with other libraries, be they orchestral, or other types of libraries.


Good point. 
One could say that having BBCSO Pro and Hollywood Orchestra Opus covers a lot of ground, before addressing any special needs.


----------



## mussnig

I guess in general no sampled orchestra will ever be complete and BBCSO is for sure not complete either.

Most noticeably, it lacks a piano and an alto flute. Also, for some types of music the brass is lacking (but you can help it with EQ, compression and some other fx).
But even if it had all of the above: maybe at some point you need a cimbalom, a second harp, a larger percussion arsenal or some saxophones ... So to answer if an orchestra is complete will always depend on the music it is supposed to play.


----------



## muziksculp

Fleer said:


> Good point.
> One could say that having BBCSO Pro and Hollywood Orchestra Opus covers a lot of ground, before addressing any special needs.


Yup. Both are great Orchestral Libraries to have.


----------



## Markrs

Fleer said:


> Good point.
> One could say that having BBCSO Pro and Hollywood Orchestra Opus covers a lot of ground, before addressing any special needs.


They are the 2 I have and use (both are excellent and different enough from each other), though I will probably be adding 8Dio Century Brass and Strings to that before the 8Dio sale ends


----------



## cedricm

Given the huge amount of space it takes, can I install it on another drive than BBC Core? Or do you know if I can move BBC Core to the new drive?


----------



## muziksculp

cedricm said:


> Given the huge amount of space it takes, can I install it on another drive than BBC Core? Or do you know if I can move BBC Core to the new drive?


The BBCSO Pro includes both Core, and Discover.


----------



## Markrs

cedricm said:


> Given the huge amount of space it takes, can I install it on another drive than BBC Core? Or do you know if I can move BBC Core to the new drive?


You can have them in two different locations, though I have both in the same place


----------



## ryevick

cedricm said:


> What do you think, Upgrade BBCSO Core to Pro for €275: Yay or Nay?


If you can hold off for about a month you could save some money during their Black Friday sale. You might even be able to grab something for free with your purchase. I picked up the limited and controversial Aperture Strings when I bought BBCSO Pro for free and love them.


----------



## cedricm

Unfortunately, I already bought it...


----------



## dzilizzi

cedricm said:


> Unfortunately, I already bought it...


Did you get it at 50% off? Because they won't beat that price at Christmas.


----------



## cedricm

Yes 50% off. 
But probably less interesting than 40% + some free unique library. Oh well, it was a fine deal anyway.


----------



## dzilizzi

cedricm said:


> Yes 50% off.
> But probably less interesting than 40% + some free unique library. Oh well, it was a fine deal anyway.


But the 40% off is at Christmas, not BF. BF is the Ton and another bundle that is usually more expensive. And maybe a couple sale items. The last 2 years had the Aperture freebies. Not sure if they will continue with this or not. 

The 40% off sale is at Christmas. Starts Christmas day. At least if they do it as they've done in the past.


----------



## RogiervG

i see this pingpong about discounts....

why not wait and see what happens? (bf and holiday sales)


----------



## muziksculp

It would be very helpful if Spitfire Audio adds a PURGE feature to their Player. 

The PURGE feature in the new East West OPUS player is so useful. It reduces the RAM footprint considerably, this would be perfect when using the BBCSO Pro library. 

I will email them to request this, also post it on their Forum.


----------



## moon

muziksculp said:


> It would be very helpful if Spitfire Audio adds a PURGE feature to their Player.
> 
> The PURGE feature in the new East West OPUS player is so useful. It reduces the RAM footprint considerably, this would be perfect when using the BBCSO Pro library.
> 
> I will email them to request this, also post it on their Forum.


What would purge do that removing articulations can't?


----------



## mybadmemory

muziksculp said:


> It would be very helpful if Spitfire Audio adds a PURGE feature to their Player.
> 
> The PURGE feature in the new East West OPUS player is so useful. It reduces the RAM footprint considerably, this would be perfect when using the BBCSO Pro library.
> 
> I will email them to request this, also post it on their Forum.


I’d love it if it could be implemented like this: Alt+click on articulations on the main page to unload/load them in same way you can shift+click to select more than one. Unloading could dim that articulation down. It would be so much easier to be able to quickly load/unload articulations from the main window, instead of having to remove them completely from the articulations editor.


----------



## mybadmemory

moon said:


> What would purge do that removing articulations can't?


It would mean being able to quickly unload/load them from the main window without having to go into another editor and remove them from the UI completely. Much less clicks to achieve the same thing.


----------



## muziksculp

moon said:


> What would purge do that removing articulations can't?


PURGE, deletes all loaded samples into RAM, and loads them again in real time as you play the samples.

So, let's say you have a Violins Patch, with multiple articulations, that is using 1.8 GB of RAM when you load it, when you PURGE it, your RAM will have Zero Samples, as you begin playing it will load only load the samples you play in real time, i.e. 10 MB, play more, it will go up i.e. to 30 MB, ..etc. so the amount of RAM saving is HUGE.


----------



## gedlig

muziksculp said:


> PURGE, deletes all loaded samples into RAM, and loads them again in real time as you play the samples.
> 
> So, let's say you have a Violins Patch, with multiple articulations, that is using 1.8 GB of RAM when you load it, when you PURGE it, your RAM will have Zero Samples, as you begin playing it will load only load the samples you play in real time, i.e. 10 MB, play more, it will go up i.e. to 30 MB, ..etc. so the amount of RAM saving is HUGE.


inb4 "dude, just download more RAM"

(purging is sooooo overdue for the SF player ffs.... (and it needs to be properly implemented, not like in sine))


----------



## moon

mybadmemory said:


> It would mean being able to quickly unload/load them from the main window without having to go into another editor and remove them from the UI completely. Much less clicks to achieve the same thing.





muziksculp said:


> PURGE, deletes all loaded samples into RAM, and loads them again in real time as you play the samples.
> 
> So, let's say you have a Violins Patch, with multiple articulations, that is using 1.8 GB of RAM when you load it, when you PURGE it, your RAM will have Zero Samples, as you begin playing it will load only load the samples you play in real time, i.e. 10 MB, play more, it will go up i.e. to 30 MB, ..etc. so the amount of RAM saving is HUGE.


Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## muziksculp

I think having a very well implemented PURGE feature will also be super useful for their upcoming Abbey Raod 1 Modular Orchestra, which I'm guessing will be even more RAM demanding than the BBCSO Pro.


----------



## Alex Fraser

A purge feature would be helpful.

The editor is great, but (last time I looked) when importing an articulation, the keyswitch triggers are set to "none." I like to have Logic's articulation mappings fully loaded and ready to go each time I load a patch, meaning I have to set up my BBCSO patches with all articulations loaded by default.


----------



## sundrowned

Has there been any indication from Spitfire that they're planning on adding purge? 

It's definitely needed and I see it as an incomplete player without it.


----------



## muziksculp

sundrowned said:


> Has there been any indication from Spitfire that they're planning on adding purge?
> 
> It's definitely needed and I see it as an incomplete player without it.


I don't know if they have ever mentioned they will be adding a PURGE feature to their player in the future, but I think it is badly needed. I already posted a request for it on their BBCSO forum section.


----------



## gedlig

muziksculp said:


> I don't know if they have ever mentioned they will be adding a PURGE feature to their player in the future, but I think it is badly needed. I already posted a request for it on their BBCSO forum section.


With how the SF player development is moving I wouldn't be surprised if the purge that happens on the 21st of march would become a reality earlier than the purge feature in the SF player


----------



## Kitosch

During the recent 100k sale I upgraded from Core to Pro, but I'll probably wait until BF to get the required storage space. Now I wonder if I could install one or two of those separate Pro sections (say, strings and woodwinds) without downloading the rest of Pro and use just the two mentioned above for the time being? Or do I need to download and install all of them before I can use any of it?

Thanks very much!


----------



## mybadmemory

Kitosch said:


> During the recent 100k sale I upgraded from Core to Pro, but I'll probably wait until BF to get the required storage space. Now I wonder if I could install one or two of those separate Pro sections (say, strings and woodwinds) without downloading the rest of Pro and use just the two mentioned above for the time being? Or do I need to download and install all of them before I can use any of it?
> 
> Thanks very much!


Each section is a separate download and install! Unfortunately the mics are not.


----------



## Kitosch

mybadmemory said:


> Each section is a separate download and install! Unfortunately the mics are not.


Ouch! Thank you. In which pack do the mics reside? I should be good to go if I downloaded that one...?


----------



## gedlig

Kitosch said:


> Ouch! Thank you. In which pack do the mics reside? I should be good to go if I downloaded that one...?


He meant that you can download strings, woodwinds, etc. separately, but you can't choose which mics you want to download in those sections, i. e. you can't download only the tree mic for woodwinds, but need to download all of the woodwind samples.

Edit: You can choose what to download when you click on the bbcso picture in the spitfire program.


----------



## Kitosch

gedlig said:


> He meant that you can download strings, woodwinds, etc. separately, but you can't choose which mics you want to download in those sections, i. e. you can't download only the tree mic for woodwinds, but need to download all of the woodwind samples.


Ah, okay, that's fine, I guess. I'll try.
Thanks!


----------



## Theladur

gedlig said:


> He meant that you can download strings, woodwinds, etc. separately, but you can't choose which mics you want to download in those sections, i. e. you can't download only the tree mic for woodwinds, but need to download all of the woodwind samples.





Kitosch said:


> Ah, okay, that's fine, I guess. I'll try.
> Thanks!


But you can download one section, remove the mic signals you don't need, download the next section, remove mic signals..., repeat.


----------



## gedlig

Theladur said:


> But you can download one section, remove the mic signals you don't need, download the next section, remove mic signals..., repeat.


Yes, which is less than ideal if sometime down the line you'd want download one additional mic, yet you have to download all of the missing ones.

Edit: or if you're one of the unfortunate ones who still have that ancient thing called „data cap“ for household internet, then you're just waisting data


----------



## OleJoergensen

Is it possible to split BBCSO into several drives, like Strings on 1 ssd, percussion and keys on a 2. ssd etc.? I think Ive read about it somewhere but cant find it.


----------



## Kitosch

gedlig said:


> Yes, which is less than ideal if sometime down the line you'd want download one additional mic, yet you have to download all of the missing ones.
> 
> Edit: or if you're one of the unfortunate ones who still have that ancient thing called „data cap“ for household internet, then you're just waisting data


I suppose I could save the removed mics on a cheap HDD and reinsert them from there without a second download if I changed my mind?


----------



## gedlig

Kitosch said:


> I suppose I could save the removed mics on a cheap HDD and reinsert them from there without a second download if I changed my mind?


Yup.


----------



## packhorse

mybadmemory said:


> I’m very happy with pro. I’ve deleted all other libraries from my starting template. If you like core, but miss the the extra instruments and the ability to get a mix that is less distant, and more upfront and detailed, pro delivers just that. I kind of wish I had just upgraded to pro sooner instead of trying to supplement core with a number of other libraries like I did.


I want to up-grade from Core to Pro purely for the leaders and bass clarinet and Cor Anglais. I only have 16MB Ram. Core is fine with this. If I just use Mix 1 in Pro would Ram usage be similar?


----------



## mybadmemory

packhorse said:


> I want to up-grade from Core to Pro purely for the leaders and bass clarinet and Cor Anglais. I only have 16MB Ram. Core is fine with this. If I just use Mix 1 in Pro would Ram usage be similar?


I do believe ram usage is very similar unless you start using muliple mics. Obviously the extra instruments will add a little ram footprint if you use them. The tricky thing is, once you have the mics it’s hard not to use them.


----------



## gedlig

I've noticed after getting pro that the ram usage increases by a couple of mb when I switched the instance from core to pro. Single articulation loaded, mix 1


----------



## Theladur

OleJoergensen said:


> Is it possible to split BBCSO into several drives, like Strings on 1 ssd, percussion and keys on a 2. ssd etc.? I think Ive read about it somewhere but cant find it.


Let me quote myself:



Theladur said:


> You can actually have different mic signals in different locations, i.e. have the main mic signals on a fast ssd, and move mic signals you are using less to a slower hdd for example.
> 
> On windows, under "*C:/Users/[username]/AppData/Roaming/Spitfire Audio/Settings*" -> Open up the Spitfire.Properties file using word pad. Under the sample locations you will see a path for your samples drive used for installing. Place a comma after the file path and identically underneath, rewrite a new path to your 2nd drive. Save the file. This will allow BBCSO to read the two locations.


Of course, you could also split the sections like that.


----------



## jaketanner

packhorse said:


> I want to up-grade from Core to Pro purely for the leaders and bass clarinet and Cor Anglais. I only have 16MB Ram. Core is fine with this. If I just use Mix 1 in Pro would Ram usage be similar?


When you get Pro, just use the tree mic...MIX 1 sounds like ass...LOL. Once you see how the other mics sound, just save the defaults to TREE mic and you will be fine. when it comes time to render, then you can create a blend of mics that works for you, and save it as a preset...then bounce and make inactive...so on and so forth. 16 gigs is not much RAM...so a little TCL and creative workflow will get you through.


----------



## mussnig

packhorse said:


> I want to up-grade from Core to Pro purely for the leaders and bass clarinet and Cor Anglais. I only have 16MB Ram. Core is fine with this. If I just use Mix 1 in Pro would Ram usage be similar?





jaketanner said:


> When you get Pro, just use the tree mic...MIX 1 sounds like ass...LOL. Once you see how the other mics sound, just save the defaults to TREE mic and you will be fine. when it comes time to render, then you can create a blend of mics that works for you, and save it as a preset...then bounce and make inactive...so on and so forth. 16 gigs is not much RAM...so a little TCL and creative workflow will get you through.


What Jake said plus: it also depends if you are only writing with BBCSO or if you are using a wild mix of VIs (especially, BBCSO together with libs that can be purged). I've worked with 16 GB RAM for the last two years and using BBCSO in complement with other libs works quite well.

Writing a piece with BBCSO alone however will quickly become tedious due to RAM limitations (you will most likely eventually need to freeze tracks, even if you only use 1 mic and only load the articulations you need). I've started to write something with BBCSO alone (+ 1 Symphonic Motions patch) and I didn't finish it so far, because I was planning on upgrading to 64 GB RAM soon and also didn't want to freeze tracks all the time ...


----------



## OleJoergensen

Theladur said:


> Let me quote myself:
> 
> 
> Of course, you could also split the sections like that.


Thank you Theladur.
I should have wrote Im using Mac…


----------



## zwhita

jaketanner said:


> When you get Pro, just use the tree mic...MIX 1 sounds like ass


Beg to Differ. That would be Soundiron Flatulus.

Nothing wrong with Mix 1 imo when it is called for. It's helpful for bozos like me who get distracted trying to find a good mix and end up with something that requires endless fiddling as the project matures because I don't know how to do a proper mix anyway. If you're stuck with one mix, you're more likely to just say f**k it and work around it. Limitations begat creativity.

BBCSO Pro is certainly more versatile, but then again you can just buy something else that might work better anyway. That and the disk space required are why I never upgraded.


----------



## jaketanner

zwhita said:


> Nothing wrong with Mix 1 imo when it is called for.


The issue is that when you combine MIX 1 among many tracks, it gets muddy...no way is it good for everything. Personally it's too much, and you are stuck with someone else's mic mixes...I dislike it...tree mic is much more natural to say the least, especially with the cuivre patches. But if it works for you, great..I just don't know anyone who uses Pro, and sticks with MIX 1. 

And "working around it" is a very poor method. Sure, if that is all you have, there isn't a choice, but it's not a great approach. The issue as with anything, is that in the wrong hands, more mics can get you in trouble, or down a rabbit hole of options...but if you know what you are looking for, it can also have limitless creativity.


----------



## jaketanner

zwhita said:


> It's helpful for bozos like me who get distracted trying to find a good mix and end up with something that requires endless fiddling as the project matures because I don't know how to do a proper mix anyway


I have found that a little time spent with the various mic mixes, is well worth it. In the beginning, I tried various combinations to see which would equal the MIX 1...then started eliminating mics until it sounded more natural. The cool part though, is that you can save preset after preset, then toggle to the original to see if it's better or not. I just wish they included a solo, mute and a mic group feature...that would make it far more useful to check mic positions.


----------



## zwhita

jaketanner said:


> The issue is that when you combine MIX 1 among many tracks, it gets muddy...tree mic is much more natural


I'll look for that. Haven't encountered it yet. Is this about lack of detail? I'd intended to just layer other strings over it if that's the case. Experiments with that so far have been satisfactory.

I've heard the conspiracy that Spitfire deliberately made Core's Mix lacklustre to force you to upgrade, but I dunno. How are they supposed to predict that everyone who uses Core has the disk space and extra resources to run Pro? Makes more sense Core is designed for hobbyist schmoes like me. 

Which leads to:



jaketanner said:


> And "working around it" is a very poor method. Sure, if that is all you have, there isn't a choice, but it's not a great approach. The issue as with anything, is that in the wrong hands, more mics can get you in trouble, or down a rabbit hole of options...


I'll have to trust that you have the experience to endorse that advice. I presume it is indeed great advice if you have a clear vision of what you want. At this point for myself, more mic options is just a distraction.



jaketanner said:


> In the beginning, I tried various combinations to see which would equal the MIX 1...then started eliminating mics until it sounded more natural.


This is where my amateurish nature sets me apart. I would be spending this time layering in other libraries. I realize you then potentially have two or more sets of midi controls and/or tracks to manage, but thus far I'm liking that approach. Could turn out to be overwhelming, we'll see.

This subject does make me wonder, who is Core meant for? The answer could be on page 387 but I lack the stamina to search for it. At this point if Core doesn't work out, I'd rather just use something else.


----------



## jaketanner

zwhita said:


> I'll look for that. Haven't encountered it yet. Is this about lack of detail? I'd intended to just layer other strings over it if that's the case. Experiments with that so far have been satisfactory.
> 
> I've heard the conspiracy that Spitfire deliberately made Core's Mix lacklustre to force you to upgrade, but I dunno. How are they supposed to predict that everyone who uses Core has the disk space and extra resources to run Pro? Makes more sense Core is designed for hobbyist schmoes like me.
> 
> Which leads to:
> 
> 
> I'll have to trust that you have the experience to endorse that advice. I presume it is indeed great advice if you have a clear vision of what you want. At this point for myself, more mic options is just a distraction.
> 
> 
> This is where my amateurish nature sets me apart. I would be spending this time layering in other libraries. I realize you then potentially have two or more sets of midi controls and/or tracks to manage, but thus far I'm liking that approach. Could turn out to be overwhelming, we'll see.
> 
> This subject does make me wonder, who is Core meant for? The answer could be on page 387 but I lack the stamina to search for it. At this point if Core doesn't work out, I'd rather just use something else.


To answer one question…yes, I’ve the experience. I’m primarily a pro mix engineer for many years, so for me it’s not hard to get a blend. Also I’ve a good grasp on orchestration…but more to the point, core was not meant to be lackluster as there was only pro when it came out…which already had mix 1. So it’s a scaled down version if I recall. I didn’t buy pro when first released, so my recollection is a bit sketchy but I do believe this to be the case. 

Mix 1 has not worked for me in anything I tried. If you compare mix 1 with just tree and close, I prefer the latter. Mix 1 is just a blend of mics, and can be recreated. In core, mix 1 also has no leader mics…so you’re stuck with not so wide panning. In pro you can at least use mix 1, then add the leader mic and close mic and then pan the close mic accordingly…helps to widen it a bit. And it just doesn’t sound clear when stacked. It’s basically the same mics on top of each other. Now this is also true for any library with minimal mic positions. However, I think it’s slightly worse with mix 1 only because it’s more than 2-3 mics mixed together.


----------



## CT

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Jake Jackson's Mix 1. It may not be exactly how I'd do it, but it still sounds nice and probably better than what most users can/will bother to manage with the individual mics. If the "Core" version didn't lack some instruments too, I'd say the overwhelming majority of people wouldn't need anything more than that.


----------



## gedlig

Just for my own sanity, can anyone confirm that the bass leader marcato articulation doesn't have the low C? For me it only goes down to the low C#. Looks like spitfire forgot to put it in or map it.


----------



## jaketanner

gedlig said:


> Just for my own sanity, can anyone confirm that the bass leader marcato articulation doesn't have the low C? For me it only goes down to the low C#. Looks like spitfire forgot to put it in or map it.


yes low C only. Might be due to use? how often is it used as marcato? No idea...


----------



## Zedcars

Did anyone post this yet? Pretty incredible…




Sounds like wrong notes at 3:45 but easily fixed (unless this is correct but sounds weird to me).

All this on Core (encore geddit?) is amazing work.


----------



## mybadmemory

Zedcars said:


> Did anyone post this yet? Pretty incredible…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like wrong notes at 3:45 but easily fixed (unless this is correct but sounds weird to me).
> 
> All this on Core (encore geddit?) is amazing work.



Its not just BBC though. At least the trumpets show up in SINE player there. 

Video description says: BBCSO Core, Junkie XL Brass, and Project Sam Orchestral Brass Classic.


----------



## Marcus Millfield

mybadmemory said:


> Its not just BBC though. At least the trumpets show up in SINE player there.


That's the first thing I thought, those trumpet attacks aren't in BBCSO.


----------



## mybadmemory

Marcus Millfield said:


> That's the first thing I thought, those trumpet attacks aren't in BBCSO.


Haha I thought the same. I love the strings and winds, they’re 
both beautiful and agile, and the brass is beautiful too for softer parts, but it just can’t do those attacks, louder parts, or agile playing.


----------



## Zedcars

mybadmemory said:


> Its not just BBC though. At least the trumpets show up in SINE player there.
> 
> Video description says: BBCSO Core, Junkie XL Brass, and Project Sam Orchestral Brass Classic.


Ah ok. Sorry, I hadn’t realised.


----------



## CT

Hmm, I don't think the main theme is anything a combination of the trumpets' shorts couldn't do....


----------



## gedlig

jaketanner said:


> yes low C only. Might be due to use? how often is it used as marcato? No idea...


Even if it's not used, that's a weird omission. Might try contacting spitfire


----------



## muziksculp

The BBCSO is a very classy sounding library, classy music doesn't use very high brass dynamics, that's kind of vulgar for classy music. similar to screaming, not polite musically


----------



## muziksculp

Actually, I dislike loud Brass in orchestral music. I'm super classy


----------



## mybadmemory

Michaelt said:


> Hmm, I don't think the main theme is anything a combination of the trumpets' shorts couldn't do....


I believe you're right in that layering the Marcato and Staccatissimo would pull it off, especially if also layering the Solo Trumpet (with the same two layered articulations) on top of the Trumpets a3. And the close mics in Pro would add extra detail too.

I probably rely too much on the extended legato patches to just do it all (since they work so well for the strings and winds), that I forget to actually play around with the other articulations. But especially for the brass, I think you need to do that.


----------



## Zedcars

Spitefire should get the architectural designs and schematics for Maida Vale and rebuild it elsewhere so they can record some more. They have pots of money right? Should be possible.


----------



## icecoolpool

mybadmemory said:


> I believe you're right in that layering the Marcato and Staccatissimo would pull it off, especially if also layering the Solo Trumpet (with the same two layered articulations) on top of the Trumpets a3. And the close mics in Pro would add extra detail too.
> 
> I probably rely too much on the extended legato patches to just do it all (since they work so well for the strings and winds), that I forget to actually play around with the other articulations. But especially for the brass, I think you need to do that.


Let´s put it TO THE TEST.

Trumpets a3. Mic Mix: close, tree and spill.

Articulations: stacc, legato, marcato and cuivre.

No layering, no effects, pure BBC with articulation switching.

The RESULT (new upload with articulation switching throughout the passage):


----------



## Geomir

Zedcars said:


> Spitefire should get the architectural designs and schematics for Maida Vale and rebuild it elsewhere so they can record some more. They have pots of money right? Should be possible.


Or even better, re-record the whole BBC SO in their brand new home, and offer the update to the existing BBC SO owners for fr... a small price.


----------



## gedlig

Geomir said:


> Or even better, re-record the whole BBC SO in their brand new home, and offer the update to the existing BBC SO owners for fr... a small price.


----------



## Zedcars

icecoolpool said:


> Let´s put it TO THE TEST.
> 
> Trumpets a3. Mic Mix: close, tree and spill.
> 
> Articulations: stacc, legato and cuivre.
> 
> No layering, no effects, pure BBC with articulation switching.
> 
> The RESULT:


Great! Maybe adjust the release times on some of those last notes, but other than that pretty realistic.


----------



## icecoolpool

Zedcars said:


> Great! Maybe adjust the release times on some of those last notes, but other than that pretty realistic.


Thanks for the feedback, I agree completely. I had the wrong articulation set up on that last section. This time, I´ve added appropriate articulation switching throughout the passage. Time to re-upload.


----------



## Geomir

gedlig said:


>


Of course, that's why I would like them to re-record THE WHOLE library (plus any new upcoming content updates) in BBC SO's new home. This is the definition of consistency. EVERYTHING recorded in the same stage.


----------



## Zedcars

icecoolpool said:


> Thanks for the feedback, I agree completely. I had the wrong articulation set up on that last section. This time, I´ve added appropriate articulation switching throughout the passage. Time to re-upload.


That's it!


----------



## gedlig

Geomir said:


> Of course, that's why I would like them to re-record THE WHOLE library (plus any new upcoming content updates) in BBC SO's new home. This is the definition of consistency. EVERYTHING recorded in the same stage.


That would be so lovely. Same sample offsets for all instruments, articulations, dynamics and velocities. More dynamic layers, added higher dynamics, more round robins, bow change, round robins for long articulations. Oh what a joy.

(Also ram purge ffs)


----------



## gedlig

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> And everything offered as a free update! :D


Free update?? Pfffff. You get paid to update! :D


----------



## RogiervG

Geomir said:


> Or even better, re-record the whole BBC SO in their brand new home, and offer the update to the existing BBC SO owners for fr... a small price.


you mean the "modular orchestra"  well, that would be nice, but i guess no. SSO owner might be more like (if ever) to get a discount, since it's currently the top tier library for them still (also from a pricepoint).


----------



## Trash Panda

gedlig said:


> Free update?? Pfffff. You get paid to update! :D


Sorry, Pfffff layers weren’t sampled. They only go up to Pf.


----------



## RogiervG

Zedcars said:


> Did anyone post this yet? Pretty incredible…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like wrong notes at 3:45 but easily fixed (unless this is correct but sounds weird to me).
> 
> All this on Core (encore geddit?) is amazing work.



The brass (shorts) are very sluggish (not tight as the original). And the high dynamic chords playing at the end of the trumpet motive sound odd (either wrong mix, or wrong instrument combination).


----------



## Geomir

RogiervG said:


> you mean the "modular orchestra"  well, that would be nice, but i guess no. SSO owner might be more like (if ever) to get a discount, since it's currently the top tier library for them still (also from a pricepoint).


LOL OK seriously now, for sure such a product couldn't be free or very cheap, I was half-kidding. It's just that (for me) they hit a dead-end with that. We have seen libraries getting huge content updates after 2, 5 or even 10 years.

BBC SO big selling point was how cohesive the product was, since they recorded the musicians in the same room in situ, but not seperately (i.e. like EWHO or SSO). They were all together on the stage in their positions for the whole orchestra recordings.

The unavailability of Maida Vale makes any really consistent content updates nearly impossible. But if BBC SO (I mean the real orchestra) is going to stay in their new home for - say - 100 years (!!!), I think Spitfire could start thinking of re-recording the whole project, find a fancy name for it, and offer it at a half-price for the existing owners of the current BBC SO. Imho this is the only way that Spitfire BBC SO can live long and prosper.


----------



## RogiervG

Geomir said:


> LOL OK seriously now, for sure such a product couldn't be free or very cheap, I was half-kidding. It's just that (for me) they hit a dead-end with that. We have seen libraries getting huge content updates after 2, 5 or even 10 years.
> 
> BBC SO big selling point was how cohesive the product was, since they recorded the musicians in the same room in situ, but not seperately (i.e. like EWHO or SSO). They were all together on the stage in their positions for the whole orchestra recordings.
> 
> The unavailability of Maida Vale makes any really consistent content updates nearly impossible. But if BBC SO (I mean the real orchestra) is going to stay in their new home for - say - 100 years (!!!), I think Spitfire could start thinking of re-recording the whole project, find a fancy name for it, and offer it at a half-price for the existing owners of the current BBC SO. Imho this is the only way that Spitfire BBC SO can live long and prosper.


Aaaah ok, i thought the new home as being abbey road (instead of Lyndhurst hall or maida vale) and how their modular orchestra will be their best orchestral library ever created...

btw.. not sure if i read your paragraph correctly, but.. anyway:
They are recorded seperately but in situ (so e.g. one day strings in their right positions and the other day the woods, meanwhile leaving the mics from other sections on, aka spill mics)
The same is true (but not always in situ) for all major libraries, section by section, or even part of the section (e.g. violas alone), with all mics recording them.


----------



## gedlig

Trash Panda said:


> Sorry, Pfffff layers weren’t sampled. They only go up to Pf.


Then how am I supposed to do my PFFFFFFRAAAAAMS???


----------



## RogiervG

gedlig said:


> Then how am I supposed to do my PFFFFFFRAAAAAMS???


buy AROOF!  
(or enhance the volume of those brass instruments.. louder than they actually are... )


----------



## José Herring

Stupidest meme I know but I've been sitting on this one for too long and I just need to set it free.


----------



## gedlig

RogiervG said:


> buy AROOF!


Well, for most of my brassy needs I do have a library that's... fairly infinite with its brass...


----------



## Alex Fraser

Geomir said:


> LOL OK seriously now, for sure such a product couldn't be free or very cheap, I was half-kidding. It's just that (for me) they hit a dead-end with that. We have seen libraries getting huge content updates after 2, 5 or even 10 years.
> 
> BBC SO big selling point was how cohesive the product was, since they recorded the musicians in the same room in situ, but not seperately (i.e. like EWHO or SSO). They were all together on the stage in their positions for the whole orchestra recordings.
> 
> The unavailability of Maida Vale makes any really consistent content updates nearly impossible. But if BBC SO (I mean the real orchestra) is going to stay in their new home for - say - 100 years (!!!), I think Spitfire could start thinking of re-recording the whole project, find a fancy name for it, and offer it at a half-price for the existing owners of the current BBC SO. Imho this is the only way that Spitfire BBC SO can live long and prosper.


Anyone know what the current situation is re BBC staying at Maida Vale? A google search reveals a squabble between the Beeb and the Gov over the building’s listed status but nothing since.


----------



## chrisav

Alex Fraser said:


> Anyone know what the current situation is re BBC staying at Maida Vale? A google search reveals a squabble between the Beeb and the Gov over the building’s listed status but nothing since.


I don't know, but everytime I walk past it I get this driving urge to break in and capture a loud, snappy short attack noise with a decent set of mics for some reason...


----------



## Geomir

Alex Fraser said:


> Anyone know what the current situation is re BBC staying at Maida Vale? A google search reveals a squabble between the Beeb and the Gov over the building’s listed status but nothing since.


I also can't find any more info about that...


----------



## dzilizzi

Geomir said:


> LOL OK seriously now, for sure such a product couldn't be free or very cheap, I was half-kidding. It's just that (for me) they hit a dead-end with that. We have seen libraries getting huge content updates after 2, 5 or even 10 years.
> 
> BBC SO big selling point was how cohesive the product was, since they recorded the musicians in the same room in situ, but not seperately (i.e. like EWHO or SSO). They were all together on the stage in their positions for the whole orchestra recordings.
> 
> The unavailability of Maida Vale makes any really consistent content updates nearly impossible. But if BBC SO (I mean the real orchestra) is going to stay in their new home for - say - 100 years (!!!), I think Spitfire could start thinking of re-recording the whole project, find a fancy name for it, and offer it at a half-price for the existing owners of the current BBC SO. Imho this is the only way that Spitfire BBC SO can live long and prosper.


I think they recorded a lot more than ended up in BBCSO, but they weren't necessarily happy with it all. At least that is what it sounded like from something Paul said. If they can figure out a way to use the excess recordings in a way that sounds good, it might show up.


----------



## Alex Fraser

So…
Has anyone taken BBCSO for a drive in (the new) Spatial Audio enabled Logic 10.7 and had a play with the Dolby Atmos signals?


----------



## RogiervG

Alex Fraser said:


> So…
> Has anyone taken BBCSO for a drive in (the new) Spatial Audio enabled Logic 10.7 and had a play with the Dolby Atmos signals?


That wouldn't be very special, close mic enabled, then the spatial audio settings on top.. and you have in essence a different room, no? (not that i have logic, but the name spatial audio implies a convolution reverb thingy)
If it's indeed a convolution, it bypasses the bbc so sound, since it's meant to be used with little reverb (from the source) as possible: only close mics (so the typical bbc room sound will not be there anymore)


----------



## Brasart

New update available for BBCSO


----------



## ennbr

The BBCSO update wiped out all of the template entries they now all point to Violins 1. Good thing I ran the update on my test machine. 

Update: I found all my existing BBCSO projects are also gone same thing every instance of BBCSO is now set to Violins 1. To make things worst the CPU load has almost doubled with this release I'm waiting for the system to restore from my backup.


----------



## Geomir

Brasart said:


> New update available for BBCSO


I was struggling for months now to set the default instrument to "none", every time in vain. In the end it was a bug... Thank you for the update info, I am going to download it this evening as soon as I get home.


----------



## Brasart

Not seeing any issues on my end with templates or existing projects:

Ableton 11.0.12
macOS 10.14.6
Using vst2 and one articulation per track

Don't think I'm seeing any unusual CPU activity either


----------



## ennbr

I'm running Studio One on a Mac could be the problem


----------



## Brasart

ennbr said:


> I'm running Studio One on a Mac could be the problem


Try to contact support if you can, maybe they can hotfix it, or let the other Studio One users that it could be an issue, did you check inside the player if it was indeed 1.4.0 or if maybe the installation failed somehow — hence the issues?


----------



## IFM

Some thing here. Did the update and everything is broken.

EDIT: AU version is fine, VST3 breaks. I replaced the VST3 version with 1.2.1 from a backup and I'm back in business. Machine is a MP6,1 12 Core, OS12.


----------



## Phaedraz

Is the update for Mac only? I don't see any available update on windows... Still on 1.2.1 for the plugin and 1.2.0 for the sounds.


----------



## sundrowned

Phaedraz said:


> Is the update for Mac only? I don't see any available update on windows... Still on 1.2.1 for the plugin and 1.2.0 for the sounds.


It's here on PC. 

And can confirm it's broken in Studio One. Same problem as reported above.


----------



## muziksculp

Oh.. No. Bummer, Studio One issues with this latest BBCSO Pro update ? 

I'm not going to update, until it is fixed, I'm on Windows 10.


----------



## Aitcpiano

muziksculp said:


> Oh.. No. Bummer, Studio One issues with this latest BBCSO Pro update ?
> 
> I'm not going to update, until it is fixed, I'm on Windows 10.


Update is not showing up for me.


----------



## muziksculp

Aitcpiano said:


> Update is not showing up for me.


Oh.. I see. I didn't even check if it shows up here. I would rather it doesn't show up


----------



## Aitcpiano

muziksculp said:


> Oh.. I see. I didn't even check if it shows up here. I would rather it doesn't show up


haha yeah, I don't think ill update for now anyway as seems like theirs issues with it anyway.


----------



## ennbr

After seeing and reporting the problem with Studio One earlier today I just tried Cubase Pro 11 and everything is working in Cubase. As much as I really love and have been a fan boy of Studio One it's things like this that are pushing my away from the product.

If I have to rebuild my template again and it looks like the case is it really worth the time to continue with Studio One. And it's not just the templates but every project I have using BBCSO Pro will need to be reworked. Think I'm going to sleep on it.


----------



## muziksculp

I checked if I have a BBCSO Pro update showing up, and there is No Update here for the BBCSO Pro.

I guess the update is only for Mac OS, not for Windows.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

muziksculp said:


> I checked if I have a BBCSO Pro update showing up, and there is No Update here for the BBCSO Pro.
> 
> I guess the update is only for Mac OS, not for Windows.


I have the update available and I'm on Windows.


----------



## muziksculp

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I have the update available and I'm on Windows.


That's odd. 

I don't see any update here. I will check again tomorrow.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

muziksculp said:


> That's odd.
> 
> I don't see any update here. I will check again tomorrow.


Have you tried downloading the latest Spitfire library loader?






Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Audio app


Download the Spitfire Audio App to start your Spitfire journey. This intuitive desktop application enables you to install and update your Spitfire products with ease.




www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## muziksculp

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Have you tried downloading the latest Spitfire library loader?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Audio app
> 
> 
> Download the Spitfire Audio App to start your Spitfire journey. This intuitive desktop application enables you to install and update your Spitfire products with ease.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spitfireaudio.com


When I launched it to check for the update, it gave me an update notification, so it updated itself, and relaunched. So, Yes, it is the latest version of their Library loader.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

muziksculp said:


> When I launched it to check for the update, it gave me an update notification, so it updated itself, and relaunched. So, Yes, it is the latest version of their Library loader.


Weird. Could they be gradually rolling out the update to all their users so we get it at different times?


----------



## dcoscina

Have 1.4.0 on Studio One 5.4 and it works fine here. Mac OS Big Sur, M1 Processor


----------



## ennbr

dcoscina said:


> Have 1.4.0 on Studio One 5.4 and it works fine here. Mac OS Big Sur, M1 Processor


Then if you open a previous project and say look at what has been assigned for a given instrument it is correctly assigned. Because I would see for each track of the project all instruments would default to Violins 1


----------



## muziksculp

ennbr said:


> Because I would see for each track of the project all instruments would default to Violins 1


----------



## muziksculp

dcoscina said:


> Have 1.4.0 on Studio One 5.4 and it works fine here. Mac OS Big Sur, M1 Processor


So, is ver. 1.4.0 the newest update ?


----------



## ennbr

yes 1.4.0 is the latest


----------



## muziksculp

I checked again, and there is no update for BBCSO Pro here. (Windwos 10).

The current versions of the BBCSO Pro are ver 1.2.0 EDIT: that's what shows on the Library Loader, but the library player shows it's ver 1.2.1 

I guess, if it works fine, why mess it up. I would rather not see an update.


----------



## muziksculp

OK, I checked my BBCSO Pro version showing on the player's interface, and it is ver 1.2.1 , double checked again, I have no Updates showing up in the SA Library Loader. 

Although the Spitfire Library Loader shows it as ver 1.2.0 , so it doesn't reflect the latest instaled version properly. 

I also checked the Spitfire Audio Forums, and the only official update posted by their admin. is ver. 1.2.1, although there is a user post about ver 1.4.0 , but not by an admin. , so I'm not sure what this 1.4.0 is all about, plus, What happened to ver 1.3.0 ?  Did they skip it ? Kind of an odd update version.


----------



## mutex

BBCSO Core here on Windows 10. Library 1.2.0 and Plugin 1.2.1.

Maybe 1.4.0 is the latest version for Mac?


----------



## Buz

I got 1.4.0 yesterday on Windows.
(BBCSO pro)


----------



## mutex

Buz said:


> I got 1.4.0 yesterday on Windows.
> (BBCSO pro)


Is that a library update? Or plugin update?


----------



## Buz

I think it was both.


----------



## Geomir

No BBC SO (Core) update for me as well in Windows 10. Now I am trying to remember... I think the same happened in the last content update for BBC SO. Many people received the update during different days, in a 3-4 day period. I think this must be something similar.

But since I am also a Studio One user (and a very happy one if that matters!) I am not in a rush to update after what I am reading here.


----------



## muziksculp

Buz said:


> I got 1.4.0 yesterday on Windows.
> (BBCSO pro)


Why did they skip 1.3.0 ?


----------



## Saxer

muziksculp said:


> Why did they skip 1.3.0 ?


No bugs


----------



## gedlig

Updated yesterday to 1.4, in S1 (W10) everything reset to violins 1 leader. I think it's a S1 issue (or my individual issue), cause for me it still thought it's on 1.2.1 and told the plugin wasn't installed, detected 1.4 properly only after reseting plugin settings in the plugin list


----------



## Jotto

What kind of update is this?


----------



## IFM

gedlig said:


> Updated yesterday to 1.4, in S1 (W10) everything reset to violins 1 leader. I think it's a S1 issue (or my individual issue), cause for me it still thought it's on 1.2.1 and told the plugin wasn't installed, detected 1.4 properly only after reseting plugin settings in the plugin list


It’s not S1 as it’s a VST issue. Cubase has the same problem but Logic does not.


----------



## gedlig

IFM said:


> It’s not S1 as it’s a VST issue. Cubase has the same problem but Logic does not.


Oh, gotcha. Reckon it's particularly a VST3 issue, right? Think someone mentioned VST2 being ok? (my memory is somewhat rubbish from lack of sleep)


----------



## Brasart

muziksculp said:


> Why did they skip 1.3.0 ?


Skipping numbers happens a lot with updates in any field, it just means they were targeting a 1.3 release with something in mind and realized they could also push something else (ex: 1.3 was the M1 update, 1.4 was for the bugfixes). And they keep the number they use internally to not confuse themselves


----------



## ennbr

muziksculp said:


> Why did they skip 1.3.0 ?


it's not uncommon in a development environment to do a build and then add new features resulting in bumping up the release number. In my dev group every night an automated build happens and a new number is added with each build.


----------



## Brasart

I think it might be a VST3 issue too, VST3 in Ableton is also pretty unstable, especially with the Spitfire Player


----------



## Gil

Hello,
Spitfire have stopped the 1.4 rollout now and are investigating…








Spitfire Audio BBC SO Pro Player Plugin Issue


Spitfire have stopped the 1.4 rollout now and are investigating… If you want to roll back to the older version please get in contact with Spitfire Support.




forums.steinberg.net




Regards,
Gil.


----------



## IFM

Thank you. I read through that thread and I was thinking I wonder if they changed the ID of the plug-in and sure enough I see in the thread that the UUID was changed. Thanks for the link!


----------



## dcoscina

mutex said:


> BBCSO Core here on Windows 10. Library 1.2.0 and Plugin 1.2.1.
> 
> Maybe 1.4.0 is the latest version for Mac?


I was having the same problem updating until I remembered to update the plugin not just the library in the spitfire app…

Looks like it’s mainly for M1 processor Mac compatibility from the notes btw.


----------



## darx

A Customer Advocate at Spitfire commented when asked what updates were in 1.4 other than M1 compatibility on a SF FB group. He listed a couple of things and added: "...It's mainly plugin aesthetics for this update. In the future we'll be looking at RAM and CPU optimizations, audio refinements, and potentially additional content."

I am very curious about the last two things, audio refinements and MAYBE more content. Due to the issue with BBCSO's historic recording room, I wonder what the additional content means. Unreleased patches or new recordings???


----------



## sundrowned

There's an update 1.5 out which has fixed the issue for me on PC. Spitfire support said they'd making an announcement soon. 

Regrettable that it happened, but quite impressed with the communication and support on this.


----------



## ennbr

I just installed it myself everything is back to normal support was fantastic to work with at Spitfire


----------



## muziksculp

I checked the SA Loader App. and I have no Updates for BBCSO Pro showing. (Windows 10). 

My current version of BBCSO Pro is 1.2.1 

Any windows users see ver 1.5.0 for BBCSO Pro Update in the loader ? 

Does 1.5 add any new samples, or improvements to 1.2.1 ? 

Thanks.


----------



## sundrowned

This was from support should explain things


----------



## muziksculp

sundrowned said:


> This was from support should explain things


Thanks for the info. 

So, they will begin rolling out 1.5.0 next week. I'm not in a rush to update. Unless it offers something new, and useful. Does it ?


----------



## sundrowned

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> So, they will begin rolling out 1.5.0 next week. I'm not in a rush to update. Unless it offers something new, and useful. Does it ?


Afaik it only adds M1 compatibility, open with empty preset, and a few small bug fixes. There was a list further up the thread.


----------



## muziksculp

sundrowned said:


> Afaik it only adds M1 compatibility, open with empty preset, and a few small bug fixes. There was a list further up the thread.


OK, so nothing exciting, or useful for me. I'm on Windows 10. 

Thanks


----------



## CT

I know that this, as a mock-up excerpt, is now old news, but hey I've never tried it before so here it is anyway.


----------



## lukevaljean

Has there been any announcements about future updates planned for BBC? Are you guys expecting updates or is it more an take it as it is library at this point?


----------



## Flyo

Legato Strings without extended pleaseeeee?


----------



## mutex

So, it's been some time. Where is the BBCSO Update for Windows users? I haven't got any yet.


----------



## Fleer

Is the Mac update running Apple silicon native now?


----------



## gedlig

mutex said:


> So, it's been some time. Where is the BBCSO Update for Windows users? I haven't got any yet.


It's there. Click on the bbcso icon and the plugin version should show 1.5. Then choose repair and you should have the updated one installed.


----------



## muziksculp

What does ver 1.5 improve/add to BBCSO Pro on Windows ?


----------



## mutex

gedlig said:


> It's there. Click on the bbcso icon and the plugin version should show 1.5. Then choose repair and you should have the updated one installed.


Nope. Plugin still showing 1.2.1.


----------



## Covent Garden

mutex said:


> Nope. Plugin still showing 1.2.1.


Same here - no Update ...


----------



## gedlig

muziksculp said:


> What does ver 1.5 improve/add to BBCSO Pro on Windows ?


Same as 1.4, but without breaking things.



mutex said:


> Nope. Plugin still showing 1.2.1


Then I have no idea :D Maybe I had it because I downloaded the broken one and it's released to fix that one.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Is there a change log for the updates anywhere? Looks like they've stopped updating the zendesk docs.


----------



## Zedcars

mopsiflopsi said:


> Is there a change log for the updates anywhere? Looks like they've stopped updating the zendesk docs.


It's in the Documents folder in the installation location:

BBC Symphony Orchestra​[1.5.0] - 2021-11-24​Fixed​
Corrects error with UID causing issues with DAW recall - present in 1.4.0
[1.4.0] - 2021-11-19​Added​
Plugin is now compatible with Apple Silicon (M1)
Fixed​
Fixed some issues where Audio Units were failing to load in Logic Pro and Garageband
Fixed an issue where the default preset could not be set to 'None'
Pro: Removed the unused vibrato control in 'Violin 1 Leader: Long Flautando'
Pro: Fixed an issue with phase cancellation when using the stereo spread control
Pro: Fixed an issue where the 'Long Flutter' technique did not load by default with the Bass Flute preset


----------



## mutex

OK, the BBCSO Core 1.5 update finally arrived for me today.


----------



## Trevor Meier

Updated to 1.5.0 on Mac M1. In Logic the plugin doesn’t work unless I manually open each instance and press the refresh button. Working with support on diagnosing it… might want to hold off if you’ve got a working setup.


----------



## Trevor Meier

FYI had a tech support call today and they were able to reproduce the plugin-refresh issue on 1.5.0. It only occurs with the multi-output version of the plugin, so if you're just bussing in stereo you should be all good. No timeline on a fix but it's on their radar.


----------



## R10k

Trevor Meier said:


> FYI had a tech support call today and they were able to reproduce the plugin-refresh issue on 1.5.0. It only occurs with the multi-output version of the plugin, so if you're just bussing in stereo you should be all good. No timeline on a fix but it's on their radar.


Awesome, good to know!


----------



## Trevor Meier

R10k said:


> Awesome, good to know!


Sounds like they’re having trouble replicating the bug on their machines. If you’ve also experienced this, it’s worth filing a support ticket so they can triangulate where the problem is coming from.


----------



## José Herring

jaketanner said:


> Hey all...came across this while paper about the acoustics of Maida Vale...it gives reverb times and EQ curves/responses...it's fairly old, but don't think ti was altered since...might come in handy to create the acoustic space for dry samples to blend in. . Enjoy.


This is actually oddly quite illuminating. Thanks for finding it.

It is amazing that they did a ton of research on this space back then.


----------



## Lady Gaia

Trevor Meier said:


> FYI had a tech support call today and they were able to reproduce the plugin-refresh issue on 1.5.0. It only occurs with the multi-output version of the plugin, so if you're just bussing in stereo you should be all good. No timeline on a fix but it's on their radar.


I have observed similar problems with the M1 beta of Eric Whitacre Choir. Sometimes a track would be silent - and if I keep duplicating an empty track with the plug-in I'll see it fairly quickly, but it definitely changed behavior with different numbers of outputs. Every now and then it would even crash Logic.

Yesterday's release of Logic 10.7.2 gave me hope as it explicitly mentions fixes regarding duplicating tracks with some plug-ins, but I haven't had a chance to exercise it yet. Have you tried your reproducible scenario with the new release to see if it's a Logic issue after all?


----------



## Trevor Meier

Lady Gaia said:


> I have observed similar problems with the M1 beta of Eric Whitacre Choir. Sometimes a track would be silent - and if I keep duplicating an empty track with the plug-in I'll see it fairly quickly, but it definitely changed behavior with different numbers of outputs. Every now and then it would even crash Logic.
> 
> Yesterday's release of Logic 10.7.2 gave me hope as it explicitly mentions fixes regarding duplicating tracks with some plug-ins, but I haven't had a chance to exercise it yet. Have you tried your reproducible scenario with the new release to see if it's a Logic issue after all?


I’m seeing the same behaviour in 10.7.2 unfortunately


----------



## Lady Gaia

Trevor Meier said:


> I’m seeing the same behaviour in 10.7.2 unfortunately


Sorry to hear it, but thank you for the quick response. We'll see if Spitfire can track down the root cause given a few environments where it happens pretty reliably.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I'm on Windows 10, I just noticed that I have the BBCSO Pro update ver 1.5.0 showing up for all the sections. Any info on what these updates fix/improve ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## icecoolpool

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm on Windows 10, I just noticed that I have the BBCSO Pro update ver 1.5.0 showing up for all the sections. Any info on what these updates fix/improve ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


[1.5.0] - 2021-11-24​Fixed​
Corrects error with UID causing issues with DAW recall - present in 1.4.0
[1.4.0] - 2021-11-19​Added​
Plugin is now compatible with Apple Silicon (M1)
Fixed​
Fixed some issues where Audio Units were failing to load in Logic Pro and Garageband
Fixed an issue where the default preset could not be set to 'None'
Pro: Removed the unused vibrato control in 'Violin 1 Leader: Long Flautando'
Pro: Fixed an issue with phase cancellation when using the stereo spread control
Pro: Fixed an issue where the 'Long Flutter' technique did not load by default with the Bass Flute preset
Unfortunately, there have been no changes to correct the timing consistency of short notes, which is, to my mind, the largest ongoing concern with regards to this library.


----------



## antanasb

icecoolpool said:


> [1.5.0] - 2021-11-24​Fixed​
> Corrects error with UID causing issues with DAW recall - present in 1.4.0
> [1.4.0] - 2021-11-19​Added​
> Plugin is now compatible with Apple Silicon (M1)
> Fixed​
> Fixed some issues where Audio Units were failing to load in Logic Pro and Garageband
> Fixed an issue where the default preset could not be set to 'None'
> Pro: Removed the unused vibrato control in 'Violin 1 Leader: Long Flautando'
> Pro: Fixed an issue with phase cancellation when using the stereo spread control
> Pro: Fixed an issue where the 'Long Flutter' technique did not load by default with the Bass Flute preset
> Unfortunately, there have been no changes to correct the timing consistency of short notes, which is, to my mind, the largest ongoing concern with regards to this library.


Is it not better than it was oroginally? I tried to test it out recently, and the shorts within violin 1 and 2 were quite okay.

Or did I got used to it somehow?


----------



## Brasart

antanasb said:


> Is it not better than it was oroginally? I tried to test it out recently, and the shorts within violin 1 and 2 were quite okay.
> 
> Or did I got used to it somehow?


I think it's fine, some prefer when it's very tight and consistent, just depends on what your preferences are


----------



## Trevor Meier

FYI the bugs continue on BBCSO 1.5.0 with M1. Still having to refresh the plugin. Sometimes a track will load fine... even 4-5 tracks in a row. But inevitably one will fail to load and need to be refreshed. 

Angus (Spitfire support) still hasn't been able to replicate it there after more than a week, so anyone else experiencing this bug please file a support ticket! It'll help them figure out where it's coming from.


----------



## muziksculp

I guess I don't need to update to 1.5.0 , I'm on 1.2.1 (Windows 10).


----------



## becolossal

This is maddening. Don't want to update due to the 1.5 issues, but after moving to an upgraded drive, a simple relocation isn't resolving. Took 3 seconds in all the NI versions of things I had to move.


----------



## sundrowned

becolossal said:


> This is maddening. Don't want to update due to the 1.5 issues, but after moving to an upgraded drive, a simple relocation isn't resolving. Took 3 seconds in all the NI versions of things I had to move.


Did you get it fixed? 

I have a similar issue. Moved to a new laptop repaired the sections but it still has the exclamation marks. 

Hopefully support will sort quickly.


----------



## Lady Gaia

Brasart said:


> I think it's fine, some prefer when it's very tight and consistent, just depends on what your preferences are


Isn't that the point of the tightness control? If you need surgical precision, you trade off the natural variation of the note attack to get it. I guess ideally you'd want a mode where each note is triggered with a negative time offset determined on a sample-by-sample basis so that they "land" at a well-defined point in time - but I don't think there's a DAW available that gives a plug-in that kind of flexibility.


----------



## becolossal

sundrowned said:


> Did you get it fixed?
> 
> I have a similar issue. Moved to a new laptop repaired the sections but it still has the exclamation marks.
> 
> Hopefully support will sort quickly.


Sort of, but not really. Every relaunch of the Spitfire App returns a different result. Now only the Strings in BBCSO are showing an error. Would be interested to know what you get back from support 

EDIT: The app will tell me the library has been successfully relocated, but still throw the red exclamation point icon – which really doesn't tell me what the actual problem is...lol. If I try to repair it, I'm told the path isn't a valid one.


----------



## sundrowned

becolossal said:


> Sort of, but not really. Every relaunch of the Spitfire App returns a different result. Now only the Strings in BBCSO are showing an error. Would be interested to know what you get back from support


I'm getting unpredictable errors too. I'll let you know. 

It should be easier than this to move a library.


----------



## becolossal

sundrowned said:


> I'm getting unpredictable errors too. I'll let you know.
> 
> It should be easier than this to move a library.


Completely agree. It was a breeze to relocate the Kontakt libraries I have from them.


----------



## becolossal

Ok, I'm throwing my hands up in desperation here if anyone has any suggestions.

I tried to relocate my BBCSO library to a new drive and all hell has broken loose. The Spitfire app tells me libraries are relocated successfully, but then do not load. Upon trying to repair, I'm told my content path is invalid (it's literally the same as it was, just a new drive).

In attempt to make progress, I decided to upgrade to 1.5 and now the Woodwinds portion of the library needs to download a 150GB update? Is this accurate?

Original delivery of BBCSO was on their HDD because my studio is remote enough where internet speed is spotty at best. Any insight would be greatly appreciated as I'm totally lost.


----------



## Jdiggity1

becolossal said:


> Ok, I'm throwing my hands up in desperation here if anyone has any suggestions.
> 
> I tried to relocate my BBCSO library to a new drive and all hell has broken loose. The Spitfire app tells me libraries are relocated successfully, but then do not load. Upon trying to repair, I'm told my content path is invalid (it's literally the same as it was, just a new drive).
> 
> In attempt to make progress, I decided to upgrade to 1.5 and now the Woodwinds portion of the library needs to download a 150GB update? Is this accurate?
> 
> Original delivery of BBCSO was on their HDD because my studio is remote enough where internet speed is spotty at best. Any insight would be greatly appreciated as I'm totally lost.


I just upgraded my PC (motherboard + CPU) so I had to go through the repair/locate process for everything.
Relocating Eric Whitacre Choir, Abbey Road One/Two, HZS etc all went as expected.
BBCSO was a bit confusing, as I had two copies of each module, like in your screenshot.
I think what worked in the end was repairing each of the 1.5.0 modules. Even though they don't have the red exclamation point, I'd still recommend repairing each one of those with the cog menu.

My 1.2.0 modules have now disappeared since successfully repairing the library.


----------



## becolossal

Jdiggity1 said:


> I just upgraded my PC (motherboard + CPU) so I had to go through the repair/locate process for everything.
> Relocating Eric Whitacre Choir, Abbey Road One/Two, HZS etc all went as expected.
> BBCSO was a bit confusing, as I had two copies of each module, like in your screenshot.
> I think what worked in the end was repairing each of the 1.5.0 modules. Even though they don't have the red exclamation point, I'd still recommend repairing each one of those with the cog menu.
> 
> My 1.2.0 modules have now disappeared since successfully repairing the library.


The biggest issue I have when trying to update to 1.5 is the app's need to re-download the entire library. I've got an open ticket with support now and Jack is trying to help. He's told me to hold off on doing anything, which leads me to believe some resetting on their end is in order. So I wait...lol.


----------



## DovesGoWest

I just updated my BBCSO Core to 1.5 on windows 10 and has anyone else noticed that the string legato sound bone dry when compared to the longs. I havent gone through wind or brass yet, but am having to update my template to add an ER to the string legato so they at least sound like the longs.

Further Update:
So it feels like the release has been set to 0% when playing long notes, however play a short note on the legato patch and the release is there like its at 80%


----------



## Francisco Lamolda

Lady Gaia said:


> Isn't that the point of the tightness control? If you need surgical precision, you trade off the natural variation of the note attack to get it.


Yes, a mode where everything is perfectly tight and with the full attack would be really appreciated. Just like what CSS does. And then if Spitfire or someone else like the untimed shorts, well, turn the mode back. But Spitfire should at least give us the option.



> I guess ideally you'd want a mode where each note is triggered with a negative time offset determined on a sample-by-sample basis so that they "land" at a well-defined point in time - but I don't think there's a DAW available that gives a plug-in that kind of flexibility.


The key to this is to use one track per art. and then apply the appropriate negative track delay. With other developers it is easier, as they fix everything to the same timing. With Spitfire this task is a hell.


----------



## prodigalson

Francisco Lamolda said:


> Yes, a mode where everything is perfectly tight and with the full attack would be really appreciated. Just like what CSS does. And then if Spitfire or someone else like the untimed shorts, well, turn the mode back. But Spitfire should at least give us the option.
> 
> 
> The key to this is to use one track per art. and then apply the appropriate negative track delay. With other developers it is easier, as they fix everything to the same timing. With Spitfire this task is a hell.


I only know of less than a handful of libraries that do this. Spitfire is certainly not the only developer that doesn't give that much thought to keeping the sample offsets consistent between articulations.


----------



## Hooo

imo consistency of sample offset starts between articulations is less important than an accurate representation of the recorded material for each articulation - i.e. all that important stuff that happens as the note starts. I actually think Spitfire give a lot of thought to this aspect of sampling which is part of why I prefer what they do above other companies. 

That said, if you're looking for an amazing resource about adding negative track delay to your libraries (BBCSO and other) to get everything lined up on the grid check out this thread: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/negative-track-delay-database-spreadsheet.105332/

Though personally I prefer to keep things more loose to try and get that natural orchestral ensemble feel where everything is a bit more wishy washy rather than being exactly on the beat. Sometimes I err on the side of being looser than a well rehearsed orchestra might play it which I think helps hide that I'm using samples. (To be fair I might not work this day if I was having to write 5 minutes a day every day, or if the samples were not going to be the final product)


----------



## Trevor Meier

Still no resolution to the plugin reset bug in 1.5.0 after a couple weeks. I get the sense that the tech support folks haven't had much time to look into it. I keep needing to repeat what the problem is, sending the same files multiple times etc. So unfortunately I (and other M1 users with this bug) are stuck for now.


----------



## Francisco Lamolda

Hooo said:


> imo consistency of sample offset starts between articulations is less important than an accurate representation of the recorded material for each articulation - i.e. all that important stuff that happens as the note starts. I actually think Spitfire give a lot of thought to this aspect of sampling which is part of why I prefer what they do above other companies.
> 
> That said, if you're looking for an amazing resource about adding negative track delay to your libraries (BBCSO and other) to get everything lined up on the grid check out this thread: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/negative-track-delay-database-spreadsheet.105332/


I understand what you say, but IMHO it's way better if every sample has the same offset and the full attack. Because then if you like it like this you don't need to touch anything, and if not you just need to loose some of the notes. And that's is way easier than the other way around.


Yeah, I know that database. Although it is neither complete nor accurate.


----------



## SteveK

DovesGoWest said:


> I just updated my BBCSO Core to 1.5 on windows 10 and has anyone else noticed that the string legato sound bone dry when compared to the longs. I havent gone through wind or brass yet, but am having to update my template to add an ER to the string legato so they at least sound like the longs.
> 
> Further Update:
> So it feels like the release has been set to 0% when playing long notes, however play a short note on the legato patch and the release is there like its at 80%


Yes I also have this issue on Violin 1 legato but not on some of the other legatos in the Violins 2 etc. very odd. Only fix I found was to increase the reverb amount a lot but this then also drowns the other articulations. Release adjustment is not available as an option for me in Core.
Very odd and makes it very unrealistic...

Steve


----------



## Trevor Meier

SteveK said:


> Yes I also have this issue on Violin 1 legato but not on some of the other legatos in the Violins 2 etc. very odd. Only fix I found was to increase the reverb amount a lot but this then also drowns the other articulations. Release adjustment is not available as an option for me in Core.
> Very odd and makes it very unrealistic...
> 
> Steve


@SteveK @DovesGoWest Make sure to file a support ticket for this. There are a few other issues with 1.5 they’re working on fixes for. Reporting can give this issue a better chance of being fixed in the next round


----------



## SteveK

Trevor Meier said:


> @SteveK @DovesGoWest Make sure to file a support ticket for this. There are a few other issues with 1.5 they’re working on fixes for. Reporting can give this issue a better chance of being fixed in the next round


Thanks and will do. 
I tested again this morning. When I first open the library I have Violins 1 as my default and the legato artic lacks any release - just cuts off. Weird thing is that all I have to do to fix it is open another instrument eg Violins 2, play the legato patch and when I go back to Violins 1 the release is fine on the legato articulation...

Steve


----------



## Casiquire

Francisco Lamolda said:


> Yes, a mode where everything is perfectly tight and with the full attack would be really appreciated. Just like what CSS does. And then if Spitfire or someone else like the untimed shorts, well, turn the mode back. But Spitfire should at least give us the option.
> 
> 
> The key to this is to use one track per art. and then apply the appropriate negative track delay. With other developers it is easier, as they fix everything to the same timing. With Spitfire this task is a hell.


Though of course with the legato, CSS is equally fussy lol


----------



## Trevor Meier

SteveK said:


> Thanks and will do.
> I tested again this morning. When I first open the library I have Violins 1 as my default and the legato artic lacks any release - just cuts off. Weird thing is that all I have to do to fix it is open another instrument eg Violins 2, play the legato patch and when I go back to Violins 1 the release is fine on the legato articulation...
> 
> Steve


Ugh… yeah, there seems to be a lot of this in v1.5. Not sure what happened on the development side but it seems like they don’t have a good integrated testing pipeline. These kind of regressions should be very rare but a lot of appeared in this update.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I didn't update my BBCSO Pro (Windows 10) to ver 1.5.0 , I'm still running ver 1.2.1 . and Didn't update to ver 1.4.0 .

So, is it safe to update to ver. 1.5.0 now ? It is showing up in my BBCSO Pro updates. 

Ver. 1.4.0 fixed these issues :

1.4.0 Fixed​
Fixed some issues where Audio Units were failing to load in Logic Pro and Garageband
Fixed an issue where the default preset could not be set to 'None'
Pro: Removed the unused vibrato control in 'Violin 1 Leader: Long Flautando'
Pro: Fixed an issue with phase cancellation when using the stereo spread control
Pro: Fixed an issue where the 'Long Flutter' technique did not load by default with the Bass Flute preset
Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Brasart

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I didn't update my BBCSO Pro (Windows 10) to ver 1.5.0 , I'm still running ver 1.2.1 . and Didn't update to ver 1.4.0 .
> 
> So, is it safe to update to ver. 1.5.0 now ? It is showing up in my BBCSO Pro updates.
> 
> Ver. 1.4.0 fixed these issues :
> 
> 1.4.0 Fixed​
> Fixed some issues where Audio Units were failing to load in Logic Pro and Garageband
> Fixed an issue where the default preset could not be set to 'None'
> Pro: Removed the unused vibrato control in 'Violin 1 Leader: Long Flautando'
> Pro: Fixed an issue with phase cancellation when using the stereo spread control
> Pro: Fixed an issue where the 'Long Flutter' technique did not load by default with the Bass Flute preset
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


I've been running and working on 1.5.0 since its release without any issues, and even through the rollback, but I'm on macOS (10.14.6) and wasn't affected by any 1.5.0 bugs because I'm using the regular vst version.
You can always check with support to see if your specific setup is compatible


----------



## Trevor Meier

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I didn't update my BBCSO Pro (Windows 10) to ver 1.5.0 , I'm still running ver 1.2.1 . and Didn't update to ver 1.4.0 .
> 
> So, is it safe to update to ver. 1.5.0 now ? It is showing up in my BBCSO Pro updates.
> 
> Ver. 1.4.0 fixed these issues :
> 
> 1.4.0 Fixed​
> Fixed some issues where Audio Units were failing to load in Logic Pro and Garageband
> Fixed an issue where the default preset could not be set to 'None'
> Pro: Removed the unused vibrato control in 'Violin 1 Leader: Long Flautando'
> Pro: Fixed an issue with phase cancellation when using the stereo spread control
> Pro: Fixed an issue where the 'Long Flutter' technique did not load by default with the Bass Flute preset
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


There are some outstanding bugs with 1.5.0 if you’re on Apple Silicon. Amongst other things, the plugin will load but not produce any sound. You have to open the interface and press the refresh button. Happens about half of the time. Very annoying…


----------



## muziksculp

Trevor Meier said:


> There are some outstanding bugs with 1.5.0 if you’re on Apple Silicon. Amongst other things, the plugin will load but not produce any sound. You have to open the interface and press the refresh button. Happens about half of the time. Very annoying…


Oh..No, That's not good. Have you reported this to Spitfire Support ? Have they replied ? Are they going to release a 1.5.1 to fix your issues ? Sorry to hear about this. 

I'm on Windows 10, so not sure if it has the same issues, I'm being super cautious with this 1.5.0 update. That's why I'm still on ver 1.2.1 and it's been great so far, don't want to break a good thing.


----------



## mussnig

muziksculp said:


> Oh..No, That's not good. Have you reported this to Spitfire Support ? Have they replied ? Are they going to release a 1.5.1 to fix your issues ? Sorry to hear about this.
> 
> I'm on Windows 10, so not sure if it has the same issues, I'm being super cautious with this 1.5.0 update. That's why I'm still on ver 1.2.1 and it's been great so far, don't want to break a good thing.


I am currently using BBCSO 1.5.0 in Studio One 5 on Windows 10 (last time I had it running was on the weekend, so didn't try with Studio One 5.5 yet). So far I didn't have any problems whatsoever. But if you don't need any of the things from the recent update and are still working on some unfinished project, then I would probably wait with updating.


----------



## Trevor Meier

muziksculp said:


> Oh..No, That's not good. Have you reported this to Spitfire Support ? Have they replied ? Are they going to release a 1.5.1 to fix your issues ? Sorry to hear about this.
> 
> I'm on Windows 10, so not sure if it has the same issues, I'm being super cautious with this 1.5.0 update. That's why I'm still on ver 1.2.1 and it's been great so far, don't want to break a good thing.


Yes it’s been reported by me and a few others. They’ve escalated the issue but no word on when there will be a fix.


----------



## muziksculp

mussnig said:


> I am currently using BBCSO 1.5.0 in Studio One 5 on Windows 10 (last time I had it running was on the weekend, so didn't try with Studio One 5.5 yet). So far I didn't have any problems whatsoever. But if you don't need any of the things from the recent update and are still working on some unfinished project, then I would probably wait with updating.


Thanks for the helpful feedback. I haven't updated Studio One to 5.5 yet, I don't have anything critical that I'm finishing up using BBCSO Pro, so I might just update to 1.5.0, then update Studio One to 5.5. 

I haven't read any reports of Windows 10 users having issues with 1.5.0 update , so I'm guessing it should be safe to go ahead with the update.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

OK, I went ahead and updated BBCSO Pro to ver. 1.5.0 , so far all is working well, no issues. I'm on Windows 10. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Geomir

Windows 10 user also here, BBC SO Core 1.5.0, everything runs smooth, but I cannot change the Default Preset from Violins 1 to anything else. In the past I had set it to "None". Now it's not working anymore. I choose something else, I click Save, and I open it again only to see that it is reset to Violins 1.

No big deal. I can live with it.

I am using Studio One 5 (freshly updated to the latest version), which also never gave me any problems.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## muziksculp

I love the BBCSO Pro Library, it's my Primary Orchestral Template's foundation.

Q. If you use the BBCSO Pro / Core as your Primary Orchestral Template's foundation, what other Orchestral Libraries do you find useful to use with it, both for layering with BBCSO, or adding more to it for complementing ?


Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## mussnig

muziksculp said:


> I love the BBCSO Pro Library, it's my Primary Orchestral Template's foundation.
> 
> Q. If you use the BBCSO Pro / Core as your Primary Orchestral Template's foundation, what other Orchestral Libraries do you find useful to use with it, both for layering with BBCSO, or adding more to it ?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


Anything really. Since BBCSO Pro with its many mics is so flexible, I find it super easy to blend or add to it anything that is needed in specific situations.

Mostly additional brass (like IB) or sometimes different percussion libs.


----------



## mybadmemory

muziksculp said:


>



Wow! So incredibly happy to get featured there! And so fun to also see @Taron featured in the very same video! This really made my day! :D


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

muziksculp said:


> I love the BBCSO Pro Library, it's my Primary Orchestral Template's foundation.
> 
> Q. If you use the BBCSO Pro / Core as your Primary Orchestral Template's foundation, what other Orchestral Libraries do you find useful to use with it, both for layering with BBCSO, or adding more to it for complementing ?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


I heard a demo someone made where they used BBCSO Pro along with some other sample libraries (it might have been Berlin Woodwinds). It surprised me how effective this was in disguising it’s limitations in terms of dynamics (swells up/down). Mixing BBCSO with other libraries goes against the fundamental idea behind it, i.e “one orchestra that sounds cohesive”, but it’s something to consider if anyone out there likes BBCSO but finds the lack of dynamics a problem.


----------



## muziksculp

mybadmemory said:


> Wow! So incredibly happy to get featured there! And so fun to also see @Taron featured in the very same video! This really made my day! :D


Hi @mybadmemory ,

_*Congratulations ! *_

A wonderful sounding Track. I just subscribed to your YT channel. 

That must feel great, to be featured in a Spitfire Audio video.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## mybadmemory

muziksculp said:


> Hi @mybadmemory ,
> 
> _*Congratulations ! *_
> 
> A wonderful sounding Track. I just subscribed to your YT channel.
> 
> That must feel great, to be featured in a Spitfire Audio video.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


It does feel great! This is just a hobby for me, and I started taking it seriously just this very last year or two, so getting that kind of recognition is truly heartwarming. Especially since I almost didn’t dare to share that track over here, I just sneaked it into the OLC thread. I kind of wish they had chosen the one I did before it instead, but heck. I still have a smile on my face!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

mybadmemory said:


> Wow! So incredibly happy to get featured there! And so fun to also see @Taron featured in the very same video! This really made my day! :D


It’s a great piece 🙂 And grats on getting mentioned! So the Spitfire people have been listening to your piece, eh? 👍👍👍🎯❤️


----------



## muziksculp

Actually, I just discovered this YouTube page because it was mentioned in the video I posted above.

It features many BBCSO demos, a great resource to see what BBCSO users are producing with the library.

If you haven't checked it out, here it is : https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/oneorchestra


----------



## Cdnalsi

Hi guys, I'm eyeing on pulling the trigger on BBCSO Core until Jan 31st when the sale ends (with already having Discovery my price has gone down to 265 EUR).

I have a question:

So when you load say Violins 1 and select the polyphonic "Longs" articulation:

- If I play one note 16 violin players will play my note,
- But if I play an interval of two notes, essentially there will be 32 violin players?
- And then if I play a chord of three or more notes it goes up exponentially?

Thanks in advance if anyone can clarify this! (as I see there are no divisi options?)

Cheers!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Yep, there are no divisi options. You’ll just double the player count, although in reality it won’t suddenly sound like 32 players either. Just a bit “thicker.”


----------



## doctoremmet

Cdnalsi said:


> If I play one note 16 violin players will play my note,
> - But if I play an interval of two notes, essentially there will be 32 violin players?
> - And then if I play a chord of three or more notes it goes up exponentially?


Correct. But is doesn’t go up exponentially but rather linearly. This is true of nearly all samples of ensembles playing together of course and in practice it doesn’t immediately sound as 32 actual players would sound. It is not some quirk that only BBCSO Core has


----------



## doctoremmet

And divisi options typically mean: they’ve split the sections and you still need to do the divisi playing “by hand”. I am not aware of many truly smart (or rather convincing) divisi implementations (in Kontakt or elsewhere) of something like Divisimate can pull off.


----------



## Cdnalsi

Thank you Alex and DoctorEmmet for your replies.

I still don't quite understand how it won't sound like 32 players. Doesn't the engine trigger the samples?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Cdnalsi said:


> Thank you Alex and DoctorEmmet for your replies.
> 
> I still don't quite understand how it won't sound like 32 players. Doesn't the engine trigger the samples?


It does trigger the samples, but it’s just a quirk of sampling generally. 

To get the sound of 32 players in the room, you’d actually have to record 32 players at once.


----------



## doctoremmet

Cdnalsi said:


> Thank you Alex and DoctorEmmet for your replies.
> 
> I still don't quite understand how it won't sound like 32 players. Doesn't the engine trigger the samples?


It does of course, but a sampler playing two samples of a 16 player string band does sound distinctly different than a recording of 32 players playing together. So in practice samples will behave differently sonically than simple mathematics and calculations would have you believe.


----------



## doctoremmet

That is the reason that sample libraries exist that offer playable ensembles, and pre-orchestrated instruments or groups playing together. It just sounds better.*) Take Abbey Road One for instance and the extensions they releas(d). Or the Bernard Herrmann toolkit.

Which in turn does NOT imply that a “self made” cello + basses octave line comprising of two separate samples sounds extremely worse than the AROOF Legendary Low Strings patch. But differences ARE there. 

That said: the longs in Core are perfectly fine for a lot of purposes. And we all play block chords on sustains from time to time as well. Just do it as long it sounds good. Orchestration is very important. But the real life rules do not always apply to samples  A lot of people also layer samples from different vendors, to add a certain darkness, airiness, grit, transients or whatever. Everytime their virtual string band grows! 

*) and it is very convenient. To be fair it is also limiting the number of use cases sometimes of course!


----------



## Cdnalsi

Thank you again both for replying.

I'm still watching all the videos and walkthroughs to kill some more time before I pull the trigger 

What are your overall thoughts on the library, how are you enjoying it?


----------



## doctoremmet

Cdnalsi said:


> What are your overall thoughts on the library, how are you enjoying it?


It is a very good collection of instruments, very complete. The Core edition offers an astounding value for money and sounds very good. I quite like Mix 1 although for some purposes the lack of flexibility in terms of mic positions may mean the mix is a little too wet. To me though, it sounds great. And the benefits are immense; a huge collection of highly playable instruments, in a ~25 Gb storage space. Terrific! For the money I don’t think there is a better alternative.


----------



## gedlig

Also in reality some intervals (e. g. 5ths, 3rds) can be played by the same player on adjacent strings, so playing two notes by a single 16 player section doesn't necessarily mean you're writing something to be played by a 32 player section.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Cdnalsi said:


> Thank you again both for replying.
> 
> I'm still watching all the videos and walkthroughs to kill some more time before I pull the trigger
> 
> What are your overall thoughts on the library, how are you enjoying it?


It’s great, astounding value at it’s current sale price. Pull the lever!


----------



## Trash Panda

Cdnalsi said:


> What are your overall thoughts on the library, how are you enjoying it?


It’s ok, but nowhere near as good as the hype around here would indicate. It has a good classical sound, but is incredibly fiddly to get convincing phrasing compared to other options. 

I’d give away my copy if I were allowed, but I’m part of a small minority around here in that regard.


----------



## mybadmemory

Cdnalsi said:


> Thank you again both for replying.
> 
> I'm still watching all the videos and walkthroughs to kill some more time before I pull the trigger
> 
> What are your overall thoughts on the library, how are you enjoying it?


I love it. BBCSO is the one I'd keep if I had to choose only one. These things are subjective of course, but to me, the sound and playability is unsurpassed among the ones i've tried in that price range.


----------



## muziksculp

Out of all the Orchestral Libraries I have, and I have many. I decided to use the BBCSO Pro as my Template's Orchestral Foundation. Everything else is added on an as needed basis depending on the project at hand. 

That should tell you something about the BBCSO.


----------



## Alchemedia

Core is a gateway drug. I believe you will find the vast majority of satisfied BBCso users own the pro version. If you have no intention of upgrading to pro I wouldn't even consider the core version.


----------



## Cdnalsi

Just bought BBCSO Core, it's downloading right now. I'm pretty excited since this is the first time I actually have the hardware to be able to run a big ensemble like this!


----------



## RudyS

Cdnalsi said:


> Just bought BBCSO Core, it's downloading right now. I'm pretty excited since this is the first time I actually have the hardware to be able to run a big ensemble like this!


Enjoy! Just purchased it 2 weeks ago myself. I like it very much.


----------



## doctoremmet

Cdnalsi said:


> Just bought BBCSO Core, it's downloading right now. I'm pretty excited since this is the first time I actually have the hardware to be able to run a big ensemble like this!


Nice! Enjoy.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Just in case you are a Studio One Pro 5 user, The VST2 version of the Spitfire Audio Player is now able to show Sound-Variations automatically, just like the VSL Synchron Player, and EW Opus Player do.

This is a very welcome new feature to have in the Spitfire Audio Player. Hopefully they will have the VST3 version support it as well.





Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Alchemedia

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just in case you are a Studio One Pro 5 user, The VST2 version of the Spitfire Audio Player is now able to show Sound-Variations automatically, just like the VSL Synchron Player, and EW Opus Player do.
> 
> This is a very welcome new feature to have in the Spitfire Audio Player. Hopefully they will have this VST3 version support it as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


Great news! Thx for the info. I would assume they'll update this to VST3 since 2 has been deprecated.


----------



## muziksculp

Alchemedia said:


> Great news! Thx for the info. I would assume they'll update this to VST3 since 2 has been deprecated.


Yes, VST3 is the standard these days, Steinberg is going to stop supporting VST2, or maybe did so already. That's why I was surprised that Sound-Variations is working with VST2 rather the VST3 version of their Player.


----------



## ScarletJerry

Alchemedia said:


> Core is a gateway drug. I believe you will find the vast majority of satisfied BBCso user own the pro version. If you have no intention of upgrading to pro I wouldn't even consider the core version.


I have Core, and I've been tempted to get Pro. Two things are holding me back

1. The huge disk memory footprint. Can I reduce it by only keeping certain mics?
2. The price. I'm not saying that it isn't worth it, but as a hobbyist, is it worth it for me to get a few extra instruments and a ton of mic positions? I'm not sure.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Cdnalsi

ScarletJerry said:


> I have Core, and I've been tempted to get Pro. Two things are holding me back
> 
> 1. The huge disk memory footprint. Can I reduce it by only keeping certain mics?
> 2. The price. I'm not saying that it isn't worth it, but as a hobbyist, is it worth it for me to get a few extra instruments and a ton of mic positions? I'm not sure.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


I'm in the same situation.

1. I've read in this very thread how people have successfully deleted/moved mic positions to reduce the disk footprint, the faders just turn grey, and apparently it works. You'll have to dig through the massive thread to find these posts unfortunately.

2. I don't think so. The leaders kinda sound "bad" as far as what I've heard being demoed around. The extra instruments can be supplemented from other, better sounding libraries, at lower cost IMO.

I love the Core so far, I think it sounds great with just the one mix, but I won't be upgrading.


----------



## mybadmemory

ScarletJerry said:


> I have Core, and I've been tempted to get Pro. Two things are holding me back
> 
> 1. The huge disk memory footprint. Can I reduce it by only keeping certain mics?
> 2. The price. I'm not saying that it isn't worth it, but as a hobbyist, is it worth it for me to get a few extra instruments and a ton of mic positions? I'm not sure.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


1. Yes you can. Spitfire have official guides for how to do it.

2. It depends. I think the real value of Pro, is not the extra instruments but the extra mics. They allow you to completely change the sound of the library from a distant and roomy orchestra to a more close and detailed sounding one. The extra instruments are a nice bonus. I always loved how Core played, but felt constrained by how all the instruments sounded like they were so distant. Pro moved them all closer, which is exactly what i wanted. If you're already fond of the sound of Mix1, the value might be less.


----------



## liquidlino

Cdnalsi said:


> I'm in the same situation.
> 
> 1. I've read in this very thread how people have successfully deleted/moved mic positions to reduce the disk footprint, the faders just turn grey, and apparently it works. You'll have to dig through the massive thread to find these posts unfortunately.
> 
> 2. I don't think so. The leaders kinda sound "bad" as far as what I've heard being demoed around. The extra instruments can be supplemented from other, better sounding libraries, at lower cost IMO.
> 
> I love the Core so far, I think it sounds great with just the one mix, but I won't be upgrading.


I've always thought the leaders sound good in every example I've heard so far. Here's a couple:





__





String "Shorts" Comparison Thread


BBCSO Pro (Tree mic position) 1a - No leaders, no trills https://app.box.com/s/btb40etxqyb2mfdfgf334a2b54ib6l5m 1b - With leaders, no trills https://app.box.com/s/88vup6e9zijk9wg43m2qw6u8fs7rzphq Wow, I have BBC Pro and those staccatos and spiccatos for me sound much much worse, specially on...




vi-control.net









__





String "Shorts" Comparison Thread


BBCSO Pro (Tree mic position) 1a - No leaders, no trills https://app.box.com/s/btb40etxqyb2mfdfgf334a2b54ib6l5m 1b - With leaders, no trills https://app.box.com/s/88vup6e9zijk9wg43m2qw6u8fs7rzphq Wow, I have BBC Pro and those staccatos and spiccatos for me sound much much worse, specially on...




vi-control.net


----------



## mybadmemory

Personally I really like the string leaders as well. Probably not for upfront solo performances, but to use instead of the sections as a backing for more intimate pieces, or layered on top of them to bring some more detail and character. They add a lot of useful stuff to the palette!


----------



## Baronvonheadless

I’ll even use leader mics on non leader instruments to get unique close sounds. 

I’ll use the close mics and leader mics but in violins 1 (not leader patch) and mix other spill mics to experiment with the room sound. It’s a killer combo for shorts. 

I did that on the col legno patches of this piece. Invaluable. Mix 1 sucks. But bbc pro rules! 









Untethered//Untouched


An Original Composition by Michael Oliva




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


----------



## liquidlino

Baronvonheadless said:


> I’ll even use leader mics on non leader instruments to get unique close sounds.
> 
> I’ll use the close mics and leader mics but in violins 1 (not leader patch) and mix other spill mics to experiment with the room sound. It’s a killer combo for shorts.
> 
> I did that on the col legno patches of this piece. Invaluable. Mix 1 sucks. But bbc pro rules!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Untethered//Untouched
> 
> 
> An Original Composition by Michael Oliva
> 
> 
> 
> 
> soundcloud.app.goo.gl


What's the brass staccatos on the right channel? That sounds really nice too.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

liquidlino said:


> What's the brass staccatos on the right channel? That sounds really nice too.


Thank u! Cinebrass core!


----------



## mybadmemory

This one uses the string leaders and close mics almost exclusively for a sound that could never be achieved with Core.


----------



## Markrs

ScarletJerry said:


> I have Core, and I've been tempted to get Pro. Two things are holding me back
> 
> 1. The huge disk memory footprint. Can I reduce it by only keeping certain mics?
> 2. The price. I'm not saying that it isn't worth it, but as a hobbyist, is it worth it for me to get a few extra instruments and a ton of mic positions? I'm not sure.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry





Cdnalsi said:


> I'm in the same situation.
> 
> 1. I've read in this very thread how people have successfully deleted/moved mic positions to reduce the disk footprint, the faders just turn grey, and apparently it works. You'll have to dig through the massive thread to find these posts unfortunately.
> 
> 2. I don't think so. The leaders kinda sound "bad" as far as what I've heard being demoed around. The extra instruments can be supplemented from other, better sounding libraries, at lower cost IMO.
> 
> I love the Core so far, I think it sounds great with just the one mix, but I won't be upgrading.





https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002636258-How-to-remove-microphones-from-BBC-Symphony-Orchestra-Professional


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Cdnalsi said:


> I'm in the same situation.
> 
> 1. I've read in this very thread how people have successfully deleted/moved mic positions to reduce the disk footprint, the faders just turn grey, and apparently it works. You'll have to dig through the massive thread to find these posts unfortunately.
> 
> 2. I don't think so. The leaders kinda sound "bad" as far as what I've heard being demoed around. The extra instruments can be supplemented from other, better sounding libraries, at lower cost IMO.
> 
> I love the Core so far, I think it sounds great with just the one mix, but I won't be upgrading.


The leaders are not meant to be played as solo instruments, they are meant to add definition and “mass” to the main sections while blending perfectly with them. It makes quite a big change to add them in.

As for Core vs. Pro I can say that if you like Core and enjoy working with it, you are absolutely gonna love Pro. The many microphone positions seemed overkill to me when considering Pro, but after using them I must say it is a pretty great thing to have. You can get a much drier sound compared to with Core.


----------



## Alex Fraser

mybadmemory said:


> This one uses the string leaders and close mics almost exclusively for a sound that could never be achieved with Core.



Lovely stuff. I think that's the first time I've heard BBCSO _not_ sound like BBCSO...which shows the power of those extra mics. (And your skills, obviously!)

A question for Pro owners - is it possible to get a "wetter" and more distant sound than 'Core with those extra mics?


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Alex Fraser said:


> Lovely stuff. I think that's the first time I've heard BBCSO _not_ sound like BBCSO...which shows the power of those extra mics. (And your skills, obviously!)
> 
> A question for Pro owners - is it possible to get a "wetter" and more distant sound than 'Core with those extra mics?


Absolutely.


----------



## mybadmemory

Alex Fraser said:


> Lovely stuff. I think that's the first time I've heard BBCSO _not_ sound like BBCSO...which shows the power of those extra mics. (And your skills, obviously!)
> 
> A question for Pro owners - is it possible to get a "wetter" and more distant sound than 'Core with those extra mics?


Thanks Alex! I think people mostly just think of the sound of Mix1 as the sound of BBCSO, when in reality with Pro, you can get it to sound very different. Both closer and more detailed using the string leaders and close, mono, leader, close wide, and stereo mics like in my example, and definitely also wetter using the outriggers, ambient, sides, balcony, and spill mics.


----------



## Hooo

mybadmemory said:


> This one uses the string leaders and close mics almost exclusively for a sound that could never be achieved with Core.



This is fantastic, Jonas! Secret of Mana has one of my favourite soundtracks and you've absolutely brought this track to life. Upgrading from Core to Pro has been pretty far down my wishlist tbh but after listening to this it's jumped up near the top.


----------



## mybadmemory

Hooo said:


> This is fantastic, Jonas! Secret of Mana has one of my favourite soundtracks and you've absolutely brought this track to life. Upgrading from Core to Pro has been pretty far down my wishlist tbh but after listening to this it's jumped up near the top.


Thanks a lot! I wasn't that interested in the mics myself before having them, and basically upgraded to get the leaders. In hindsight I feel like the mics were the true value of Pro, and almost gave me an entirely new library sound-wise. Especially the close ones makes a huge difference.


----------



## RudyS

wow that sounds great @mybadmemory. So detailed! Did you use some additional reverb, or is this just the reverb of the room itself?


----------



## mybadmemory

RudyS said:


> wow that sounds great @mybadmemory. So detailed! Did you use some additional reverb, or is this just the reverb of the room itself?


The harp, winds and percussion have a tiny tiny amount of Valhalla Room. The strings have no reverb at all, just the room sound from Mix2 + Close mics.


----------



## RudyS

Thanks! I think you just sold an upgrade from core to pro for Spitfire


----------



## becolossal

mybadmemory said:


> This one uses the string leaders and close mics almost exclusively for a sound that could never be achieved with Core.



Really nicely done!


----------



## Flyo

Hello, there is a way to avoid the short attack in legatos of the strings? Besides velocity changes there is a way to get a way to don’t appears between phrases?


----------



## mybadmemory

Flyo said:


> Hello, there is a way to avoid the short attack in legatos of the strings? Besides velocity changes there is a way to get a way to don’t appears between phrases?


For the initial note of a legato phrase, velocity needs to be below 10 to get a soft start. Within a legato phrase, velocities under 30 gets a soft portamento, and anything above 30 a faster transition.


----------



## Flyo

mybadmemory said:


> For the initial note of a legato phrase, velocity needs to be below 10 to get a soft start. Within a legato phrase, velocities under 30 gets a soft portamento, and anything above 30 a faster transition.


Exactly but the short attack comes so much times with live playing… it’s really annoying! Always I have to re edit velocity after, really wish the short attack spicato don’t appear at all


----------



## MelodicAdagio

Cdnalsi said:


> Thank you again both for replying.
> 
> I'm still watching all the videos and walkthroughs to kill some more time before I pull the trigger
> 
> What are your overall thoughts on the library, how are you enjoying it?


It's a good sounding library. Like anything, it has certain limitations. But I've never regretted purchasing it and I like it overall. It's on my big version of my template. I have the Pro version, however. It's nice to be able to shape the sound with the extra mics.


----------



## muziksculp

I just noticed that this thread has One Million Views !!! and over 11,000 replies, WOW ! 

This might be the most active thread on this forum.


----------



## CT

What's it about though?


----------



## muziksculp

Michaelt said:


> What's it about though?


Well, you have 528 pages to sift through, and discover what it's it all about


----------



## Fleer

As a (sub)topic, here’s me wondering how to fill three empty Samsung 1TB SSDs, two T5s and one T7. 
I’m thinking I’ll use a T5 for HoOpus Diamond (942GB) and the other T5 for Choirs, Backup Singers, Pianos Platinum and more EW libraries (including HoOpus Gold), while filling the T7 with BBCSO Pro, Tundra, Neo and One.


----------



## Cdnalsi

What are your guys' thoughts on layering Abbey Road Two Core with BBCSO Core?


----------



## Cdnalsi

muziksculp said:


> Well, you have 528 pages to sift through, and discover what it's it all about


I know you're joking, but I did that, it took me a few days, but I went through each and every of your comments, all the pages, all the sorrows, all the demos, all the issues, everything.

I'm glad I did, it educated me quite a bit about the library, and in the end as you know I bought it.

So thanks for the ride!


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Geomir

Poor Maide Vale. The years have passed fast. The room looks so old. It definitely shows its age. The floor is permanently worn and damaged, and even the wooden conductor platform is broken. No one cares to fix them. Behind you can see hundreds of hanging posters and sticky papers. There is something depressive everywhere you look. Something that gives me the impression that I am looking at an abandoned warehouse instead of a world-class scoring stage or state-of-the-art musical hall. No wonder why the studios are closing. No wonder why they plan to find a new home for BBC Symphony Orchestra.


----------



## ed buller

Such great memories of that place. My dad's orchestral recordings, The Radio Phonic Workshop, Doing Live radio gigs with loads of bands...yes it's a dump but what a dump !

best

e


----------



## Francisco Lamolda

Do you think that it will be a major update upcoming? Like the last year update with the legatos and muted brass. Between the fact that BBC was January selling lib and the new video, I have hope...

Also, the Spitfire team itself said that there was an update coming.


----------



## Francisco Lamolda

liquidlino said:


> I've always thought the leaders sound good in every example I've heard so far.


The leaders are good for slow to medium passages. But in fast legato passages, not so much. I tried to replicate this quartet and the legato of the celli and V1 just can't handle that speed. 

But, if it's something like this, it works incredible well. I recreated the beginning of this cue and it sounded amazing.


----------



## Aldunate

Francisco Lamolda said:


> Do you think that it will be a major update upcoming? Like the last year update with the legatos and muted brass. Between the fact that BBC was January selling lib and the new video, I have hope...
> 
> Also, the Spitfire team itself said that there was an update coming.


Where did they said that?
It would be great to have more solo instruments (ie 4 different Horns)


----------



## Francisco Lamolda

Aldunate said:


> Where did they said that?
> It would be great to have more solo instruments (ie 4 different Horns)


Some of the staff said it in a post of their forum in December. But I can't find the post, sorry.

I think it will probably be an update just to fix issues. But with a little bit of luck we can get new content.

About the horn, I don't think that will ever happen with Spitfire. They usually just make one solo horn. You can do a little trick to have a Horn 2 by moving the samples 2 tones lower and then tunning it 2 tones up. Or you can buy other horns from like Orchestral Tools.


----------



## cmillar

Francisco Lamolda said:


> The leaders are good for slow to medium passages. But in fast legato passages, not so much. I tried to replicate this quartet and the legato of the celli and V1 just can't handle that speed.
> 
> But, if it's something like this, it works incredible well. I recreated the beginning of this cue and it sounded amazing.


I agree. I love the BBC library, but being able to play in faster legato passages without any 'choking' and 'swallowing' of the notes would be fantastic.

But, I need to experiment more with the legato and velocity settings.

Some other libraries have 'fast legato'...but it doesn't necessarily sound like real strings! 

Thankfully, real humans have nothing to worry about, now or in the future, of being replaced for what they do.


----------



## cmillar

OK!....Wow!.....(I'm a bit 'late to the game'...) but Wow!

When just using the basic 'Strings: Violin 1 - Legato' patch...

After playing around with the various 'Velocity Mapped to Dynamics' and the various 'Velocity Response' adjustments.....

Wow!

A whole new world of possibilities!

Better late than never! Thank you Spitfire! 

As you Brits would say, "Bloody Brilliant!"


----------



## Ivan Duch

cmillar said:


> OK!....Wow!.....(I'm a bit 'late to the game'...) but Wow!
> 
> When just using the basic 'Strings: Violin 1 - Legato' patch...
> 
> After playing around with the various 'Velocity Mapped to Dynamics' and the various 'Velocity Response' adjustments.....
> 
> Wow!
> 
> A whole new world of possibilities!
> 
> Better late than never! Thank you Spitfire!
> 
> As you Brits would say, "Bloody Brilliant!"


What's that? Something from the 1.5 update?


----------



## mallux

cmillar said:


> As you Brits would say, "Bloody Brilliant!"


Ron Weasley has a lot to answer for...


----------



## Alex Fraser

cmillar said:


> As you Brits would say, "Bloody Brilliant!"


Far too much emotion and over excitement. We’d raise a surprised eyebrow, mutter “Jolly good” and take another sip of the ‘Earl.


----------



## cmillar

Ivan Duch said:


> What's that? Something from the 1.5 update?


Being a relative new user, I guess that I have the latest verson from within the last two weeks.

I was not that impressed with the ability to execute fast legato passages until I started changing the Velocity settings; both of them.

That really opens the doors to pretty much anything the sample library is possible of.

And all with the great sound of this orchestra. (I've bought a lot of different packages over the years, but this is my new love for sampled orchestra for my needs.)

I'm really on the Spitfire bandwagon now!


----------



## cmillar

Alex Fraser said:


> Far too much emotion and over excitement. We’d raise a surprised eyebrow, mutter “Jolly good” and take another sip of the ‘Earl.


Being originally from the 'Commonwealth of Canada', my ancestors did a fine job of keeping us fairly restrained.

Sorry for the outburst!


----------



## muziksculp

cmillar said:


> I was not that impressed with the ability to execute fast legato passages until I started changing the Velocity settings; both of them.


I'm not sure I see any velocity settings for BBCSO Pro. 

Where are these velocity settings you are referring to ?


----------



## cmillar

muziksculp said:


> I'm not sure I see any velocity settings for BBCSO Pro.
> 
> Where are these velocity settings you are referring to ?


You'll find the 'Dynamics' and 'Velocity' setting in the upper right-hand corner of the player, in the (...) area (yes, it's not easy to see at first glance and doesn't 'light up' until you scroll and click your mouse over it.)


----------



## muziksculp

cmillar said:


> You'll find the 'Dynamics' and 'Velocity' setting in the upper right-hand corner of the player, in the (...) area (yes, it's not easy to see at first glance and doesn't 'light up' until you scroll and click your mouse over it.)


Hi @cmillar ,

OH.. Wow ! This is the first time I discover these settings. 

Thank You Very Much for letting me know about them, and where they are


----------



## muziksculp

Here are pics of these Velocity & Dynamics Related settings of BBCSO Pro :


----------



## cmillar

muziksculp said:


> Hi @cmillar ,
> 
> OH.. Wow ! This is the first time I discover these settings.
> 
> Thank You Very Much for letting me know about them, and where they are


They'll "change your life"!


----------



## muziksculp

cmillar said:


> They'll "change your life"!


I'm super excited about this.  Thank You so much.


----------



## muziksculp

@cmillar ,

Are these settings also helping you to get better results when playing the short string articulations ?


----------



## RudyS

What do these settings do exactly?


----------



## packhorse

Are these settings in BBC SO Core?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

packhorse said:


> Are these settings in BBC SO Core?


I think it’s part of the Spitfire player, so every library using their player has them.


----------



## AllanH

RudyS said:


> What do these settings do exactly?


It is a velocity map that transforms your input velocity (i.e. how hard you press). If you have a very heavy keyboard, you can pick a curve that hits the higher velocity without a lot of heavy banging on the keys. I find it beneficial on shorts and Appassionato (in particular). With my weighted keyboard, I find that it (the instrument) works more naturally with the velocity curve that emphasises the lower velocities.


----------



## Composer 2021

cmillar said:


> OK!....Wow!.....(I'm a bit 'late to the game'...) but Wow!
> 
> When just using the basic 'Strings: Violin 1 - Legato' patch...
> 
> After playing around with the various 'Velocity Mapped to Dynamics' and the various 'Velocity Response' adjustments.....
> 
> Wow!
> 
> A whole new world of possibilities!
> 
> Better late than never! Thank you Spitfire!
> 
> As you Brits would say, "Bloody Brilliant!"


What settings did you do to get nice, fast legato? I'm having trouble with sluggish legato too.


----------



## cmillar

muziksculp said:


> @cmillar ,
> 
> Are these settings also helping you to get better results when playing the short string articulations ?


They do, as I keep experimenting with all the different values. I'll have to make some real notes to myself now that I'm digging into it.

Also, for short notes, I'm experimenting with different 'Tightness' adjustments from the 'big knob' choices to see what will be most useful for different musical needs. The unison strings can be adjusted from very tight to a little 'loose'.

Overall, I'm so pleased to find that BBCSO can really handle such a variety of musical requirements.

And, by combining some of the articulations together (ie: Cuivre and Long in any brass instruments) you can really bring out the brightness of the brass when needed. (that was a tip from someone else)

Having used many different libraries over the years, I love this Spitfire Player and the 'playability' of the instruments with these adjustments that are available making a good thing only better.


----------



## cmillar

Composer 2021 said:


> What settings did you do to get nice, fast legato? I'm having trouble with sluggish legato too.


In 'Dynamic's, try switching between 'Compressed Velocity High' and 'Low' as you try a 'Velocity ' setting of 'Exponential Pos.'

I find that you get two great choices of very fast legato styles.
'Compressed Velocity High' gives you a nice 'attaca' beginning to a fast passage.
'Compressed Velocity Low' gives you a 'softer' attack and quieter passage.

And then, the other Dynamic setting will yield some different results as well, depending on your playing styles and what you like.

Great fun to have such great sound and excellent realism possible in the BBCSO.

And, I'm just a new owner. Looking forward to really getting to know it!


----------



## Cdnalsi

Has anyone here tried layering BBCSO with the AR2 solo strings?

If you have any examples or can sequence a short track it would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Fleer

So, is BBCSO Pro running smoothly native on Apple Silicon now? Got my MBP M1 Max coming in this week


----------



## Cdnalsi

Fleer said:


> So, is BBCSO Pro running smoothly native on Apple Silicon now? Got my MBP M1 Max coming in this week


Yes, performance is flawless for me (all instruments' articulations on separate tracks, CPU is barely tickled at ~35% when hundreds of tracks are playing).

I'm unsure about the RAM consumption of the BBCSO Pro with all the extra mics though, as I only have the Core version. But even when I took my 16GBs overboard with other libraries included, swapping is very fast and Logic never became unresponsive even for a split second. There's a screenshot and more info in my post here.

Congrats on the beast! If you've specced yours out with 64GB of RAM you'll breeze through like knife through butter!


----------



## Fleer

Thanks!
Yeah, 64GB/4TB. Should be good


----------



## Flyo

Hello, someone knows if there is a way to match copy / paste the automatization from AbbeyRoad to BBCSO plug in on pro tools? I make autom writes under the Plug In Enable track in Pro Tools, but when I try to copy the same autom to BBC always the same message appears "Some Automation Parameters in the clipboard do not match the paste destination"


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Harrisown

Hello people.
I bought BBC SO Core today.
Just on the first day I've noticed huge problems. It sometimes goes out of tune, just sour. it's happened on Brass longs/legato but also Violins II stacc/spicc. Some parts can't playback fast enough and so introduces something that sounds like swing. the legato is really slow and it's really easy to get missing notes. not being able to adjust attack and release is a real pain.
A few brass notes have a really unattractive rattle to them. sound more broken than throaty.
Seriously I feel a bit deflated....I knew Spitfire was all smoke and mirrors. At least I know now.
When it does all come together it can sound really nice but I can't trust it like I need to.


----------



## jbuhler

liquidlino said:


> Good grief. It's replies like this why BBCSO is still sat in my cart and I haven't pulled the trigger. Is this right, folk, is this normal and common experience?


I mean who knows. I don’t have BBCSO so can’t speak to that but I have lots of libraries that people complain about all the time that truthfully give me little trouble. But then too people’s experiences differ a lot due to system differences. I seem to have a system that for whatever reason works well with most libraries and players. Or I have more tolerance for imperfection and workarounds. (I kind of doubt the latter, given that I’ve recently been complaining about string libraries lacking seconds.)


----------



## CT

liquidlino said:


> Is this right, folk, is this normal and common experience?


Not only that, the library will crap all over your floor!


----------



## muziksculp

Michaelt said:


> Not only that, the library will crap all over your floor!


Be prepared. Make sure you have lots of towels, disinfectant, and buckets of water to clean the mess on the floor. You don't want that in your studio.


----------



## CT

Spitfire strikes again!


----------



## Fleer

More like Messerschmitt


----------



## CT

liquidlino said:


> Good grief. It's replies like this why BBCSO is still sat in my cart and I haven't pulled the trigger. Is this right, folk, is this normal and common experience?


To give a serious answer... because one can not demo most VIs, the only really useful source of information in my view is close listening to what others have done with it. A forum post with complaints may or may not be indicative of how your own user experience would be (I've never noticed/been bothered by what was just mentioned here, for instance). Actual audio demonstrations will tell you what is possible to achieve with it, what is strong, what is weak, etc. If you know what you are trying to do, that is a useful metric to measure your needs against.

The video just a few posts up seems like a great barometer for BBCSO as far as pros and cons. Although, I'll say there are a few things that I think could be improved in that mock-up, mostly having to do with use of the short overlays, so of course you also have to approach even audio examples with some measure of skepticism. I would likely have not used the first chair violin as such a featured soloist either, but that's another story.

Anyway, yeah, this is all expensive stuff to buy on faith, but I'll say again that I think _most_ contemporary libraries are now at a level where it is disingenuous to deem them useless/unusable, unless you fundamentally misunderstand what something is and buy it on that incorrect premise. There are of course degrees of quality, but anyone who is getting a library and then deciding not to use it within a short time span is, in my opinion, just not serious about giving all this stuff the time and effort it truly needs, and/or possessed of too much disposable income.


----------



## branshen

Harrisown said:


> Hello people.
> I bought BBC SO Core today.
> Just on the first day I've noticed huge problems. It sometimes goes out of tune, just sour. it's happened on Brass longs/legato but also Violins II stacc/spicc. Some parts can't playback fast enough and so introduces something that sounds like swing. the legato is really slow and it's really easy to get missing notes. not being able to adjust attack and release is a real pain.
> A few brass notes have a really unattractive rattle to them. sound more broken than throaty.
> Seriously I feel a bit deflated....I knew Spitfire was all smoke and mirrors. At least I know now.
> When it does all come together it can sound really nice but I can't trust it like I need to.


Can you elaborate on goes out of tune on longs? The note starts in tune but drifts? On spics and stacs, do you mean the notes are actually out of tune?

Re Missing notes, is the patch loaded fully before playing?

Which parts can't play back fast enough? Taking into account that different instruments have different attack lengths, you might have to adjust accordingly. 

If you post more details, I'm sure the forumers will be able to better identify the issues and better offer some tips.


----------



## liquidlino

Michaelt said:


> To give a serious answer... because one can not demo most VIs, the only really useful source of information in my view is close listening to what others have done with it. A forum post with complaints may or may not be indicative of how your own user experience would be (I've never noticed/been bothered by what was just mentioned here, for instance). Actual audio demonstrations will tell you what is possible to achieve with it, what is strong, what is weak, etc. If you know what you are trying to do, that is a useful metric to measure your needs against.
> 
> The video just a few posts up seems like a great barometer for BBCSO as far as pros and cons. Although, I'll say there are a few things that I think could be improved in that mock-up, mostly having to do with use of the short overlays, so of course you also have to approach even audio examples with some measure of skepticism. I would likely have not used the first chair violin as such a featured soloist either, but that's another story.
> 
> Anyway, yeah, this is all expensive stuff to buy on faith, but I'll say again that I think _most_ contemporary libraries are now at a level where it is disingenuous to deem them useless/unusable, unless you fundamentally misunderstand what something is and buy it on that incorrect premise. There are of course degrees of quality, but anyone who is getting a library and then deciding not to use it within a short time span is, in my opinion, just not serious about giving all this stuff the time and effort it truly needs, and/or possessed of too much disposable income.


I think this is a really balanced take on it all. I personally have not had any showstopping technical issues with any libraries I've bought so far, from any vendor in any player (Kontakt, Sine, Opus, Spitfire Player).

I think I'm now very cautious with my spending, especially with Spitfire. I've bought three libraries so far (OAE, BHCT and the electric piano library that came in the ton) and realised a few things:

1. I don't really like "soundscape" libraries, where essentially it's "press and hold keys and music is made". OAE falls in this camp.

2. I don't like ensemble libraries (high/low strings etc).

3. I don't like ready-made combinations of instruments (trumpet/xylo)

4. I don't like overly "wet" libraries (prefer adding my own reverbs)

5. I don't like processing to be baked into the library (although I don't mind if it's an extra mix signal)

What I've found I do like is deeply sampled (lots of RR, decent dynamic layers), "natural" sounding instruments, so that I can then choose what processing/mixing I do with them from there. I value a small but worthwhile range of mic signals, but have no interest in 20+ signals. I also value consistent timing of articulations, and consistent balance of articulation volumes.

On this front, for me, my two favourite purchases so far have been CSS and StormDrum3. I find myself using BHCT not because I love it (although there are a few patches that I do love, such as the trombones), but because I spent a butt ton of money on it, and feel that I ought to get my moneys worth out of it... which is just not a happy place to be. BHCT was my last major library purchase, and it's made me very wary of buying anything now without being incredibly certain of what I'm buying.

On the disposable income front, I'm lucky and do have plenty, but even so, I'm not in the business of wasting any of it, especially as this is really just a hobby (with some idea that I might one day make music good enough to go into a production music library or something similar).


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

liquidlino said:


> I think this is a really balanced take on it all. I personally have not had any showstopping technical issues with any libraries I've bought so far, from any vendor in any player (Kontakt, Sine, Opus, Spitfire Player).
> 
> I think I'm now very cautious with my spending, especially with Spitfire. I've bought three libraries so far (OAE, BHCT and the electric piano library that came in the ton) and realised a few things:
> 
> 1. I don't really like "soundscape" libraries, where essentially it's "press and hold keys and music is made". OAE falls in this camp.
> 
> 2. I don't like ensemble libraries (high/low strings etc).
> 
> 3. I don't like ready-made combinations of instruments (trumpet/xylo)
> 
> 4. I don't like overly "wet" libraries (prefer adding my own reverbs)
> 
> 5. I don't like processing to be baked into the library (although I don't mind if it's an extra mix signal)
> 
> What I've found I do like is deeply sampled (lots of RR, decent dynamic layers), "natural" sounding instruments, so that I can then choose what processing/mixing I do with them from there. I value a small but worthwhile range of mic signals, but have no interest in 20+ signals. I also value consistent timing of articulations, and consistent balance of articulation volumes.
> 
> On this front, for me, my two favourite purchases so far have been CSS and StormDrum3. I find myself using BHCT not because I love it (although there are a few patches that I do love, such as the trombones), but because I spent a butt ton of money on it, and feel that I ought to get my moneys worth out of it... which is just not a happy place to be. BHCT was my last major library purchase, and it's made me very wary of buying anything now without being incredibly certain of what I'm buying.
> 
> On the disposable income front, I'm lucky and do have plenty, but even so, I'm not in the business of wasting any of it, especially as this is really just a hobby (with some idea that I might one day make music good enough to go into a production music library or something similar).


I wouldn’t get BBCSO if I was you (I did and regret it).


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

liquidlino said:


> Yep, came to same conclusion. What do you use for percussion to go with CSS/Berlin?


I just got Berlin Timpani and that’s all the percussion I’m using atm. 

Basically I now buy sample libraries that fit well into a traditional orchestra setup seen from a “wetness” / depth perspective: Strings up front (= almost dry, like CSS), woodwinds behind strings so a little more baked in reverb (Berlin WW‘s Tree mic position works fine here), then brass further back so even more baked in reverb (Berlin Brass with the Tree+Surround mics ought to work well here), and finally percussion all the way back so that should be the most wet library reverb-wise.

Doing it this way should minimize the need for adding much processing to make the libraries sit well together in the mix. I find that gives me the best result.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

So for percussion something like Spitfire‘s perc library recorded at AIR studios, and Performance Samples perc libraries, maybe Cineperc if it can go wet enough etc.


----------



## Harrisown

branshen said:


> Can you elaborate on goes out of tune on longs? The note starts in tune but drifts? On spics and stacs, do you mean the notes are actually out of tune?
> 
> Re Missing notes, is the patch loaded fully before playing?
> 
> Which parts can't play back fast enough? Taking into account that different instruments have different attack lengths, you might have to adjust accordingly.
> 
> If you post more details, I'm sure the forumers will be able to better identify the issues and better offer some tips.


Thanks.
Well I'm open to suggestions.
Here's a video with two problems where it's skipping fast notes where CSS has no problems and the second example the off colour tinge of the brass.Both examples are relatively mild and it's been worse in some other instances.



I've gone around checking to see if there's any secret midi cc laying inside the midi sections and there's nothing. No pitch change , sustain, or anything else.

Just as a disclaimer. I'm a guitarist that's fumbles with this stuff. I've been doing the guitar stuff since '94 and all this DAW business for 10 years so I know my way around but I am not Max Richter.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Harrisown said:


> Thanks.
> Well I'm open to suggestions.
> Here's a video with two problems where it's skipping fast notes where CSS has no problems and the second example the off colour tinge of the brass.Both examples are relatively mild and it's been worse in some other instances.
> 
> 
> 
> I've gone around checking to see if there's any secret midi cc laying inside the midi sections and there's nothing. No pitch change , sustain, or anything else.
> 
> Just as a disclaimer. I'm a guitarist that's fumbles with this stuff. I've been doing the guitar stuff since '94 and all this DAW business for 10 years so I know my way around but I am not Max Richter.



I don’t know anything about these specific examples, but tuning issues is unfortunately a problem with both Spitfire’s Symphonic and Chamber strings too. Same goes for inconsistent round robins, i.e. where one or several RRs start at a different time than the rest, which naturally is very audible.


----------



## RogiervG

Harrisown said:


> Thanks.
> Well I'm open to suggestions.
> Here's a video with two problems where it's skipping fast notes where CSS has no problems and the second example the off colour tinge of the brass.Both examples are relatively mild and it's been worse in some other instances.
> 
> 
> 
> I've gone around checking to see if there's any secret midi cc laying inside the midi sections and there's nothing. No pitch change , sustain, or anything else.
> 
> Just as a disclaimer. I'm a guitarist that's fumbles with this stuff. I've been doing the guitar stuff since '94 and all this DAW business for 10 years so I know my way around but I am not Max Richter.



Not sure, since i haven't got bbc so installed atm.. But isn't there a tightness option? (with the big knob) ?
Although i know from when i used it.. it can be a bit sloppy at fast note patterns. (e.g. ostinato's at faster pacing)


----------



## Cdnalsi

I just tried recreating the above video example with the violins ostinato. Same effect for me though perhaps not as sloppy. Still not perfectly in time. :(

And the tightness knob only cuts into the sample offset, but RR is still triggered pretty badly. It only becomes properly in time if I choose only 1 RR from the options. The moment you want more RRs it's a-rhythmical.

Seems to be a programming error which hopefully Spitfire can fix...


----------



## Harrisown

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I don’t know anything about these specific examples, but tuning issues is unfortunately a problem with both Spitfire’s Symphonic and Chamber strings too. Same goes for inconsistent round robins, i.e. where one or several RRs start at a different time than the rest, which naturally is very audible.


I have the collectors edition of Komplete and they have a Symphony series. The Brass in that has out of tune notes. I just put it down to cost cutting. Basically I think BBC SO is probably on par with that Native Instruments collection in terms of quality. I was expecting more from spitfire with all the lovely PR and presentation but I will admit it's what I silently thought for years.

Just goes to show the quality of CSS. I just needed something with a more punchy big sound.


----------



## Harrisown

Cdnalsi said:


> I just tried recreating the above video example with the violins ostinato. Same effect for me though perhaps not as sloppy. Still not perfectly in time. :(
> 
> And the tightness knob only cuts into the sample offset, but RR is still triggered pretty badly. It only becomes properly in time if I choose only 1 RR from the options. The moment you want more RRs it's a-rhythmical.
> 
> Seems to be a programming error which hopefully Spitfire can fix...


With BBC SO maybe there is a chance because it's probably their most famous mass market "classic"
In the background there's probably a wasteland of unfinished and overlooked products that never get touched.
All my problems seem to be a sampler problem. Perhaps if they were still using kotakt this wouldn't happen?
Having said that, I have managed to get BBC SO discovery in Kontakt. was I imaging that? I swear on my life sometime last year I made that happen.


----------



## mussnig

Harrisown said:


> Having said that, I have managed to get BBC SO discovery in Kontakt. was I imaging that? I swear on my life sometime last year I made that happen.


BBCSO discover uses it's own plugin (the same as all BBCSO versions). The only way to get that in Kontakt would be to resample the whole library ...


----------



## RogiervG

Harrisown said:


> I was expecting more from spitfire with all the lovely PR and presentation but I will admit it's what I silently thought for years.


Well.. the demos and enduser demos provide you good insight on what it can do well.. and what it doesn't do very well (if at all). I noticed many demos are of the slower type (where bbc does things very well) and lesser in the fast (agile) spectrum, that should have given you a hint.


----------



## Cdnalsi

Harrisown said:


> With BBC SO maybe there is a chance because it's probably their most famous mass market "classic"
> In the background there's probably a wasteland of unfinished and overlooked products that never get touched.
> All my problems seem to be a sampler problem. Perhaps if they were still using kotakt this wouldn't happen?
> Having said that, I have managed to get BBC SO discovery in Kontakt. was I imaging that? I swear on my life sometime last year I made that happen.


I even tried splitting the 16th notes on two tracks with two players on the same articulation. Kinda the same result; still not perfectly in time.

Would sending a ticket with the accompanying video to Spitfire help?

edit: also there's no BBC SO Discovery in Kontakt.


----------



## mussnig

Cdnalsi said:


> I even tried splitting the 16th notes on two tracks with two players on the same articulation. Kinda the same result; still not perfectly in time.
> 
> Would sending a ticket with the accompanying video to Spitfire help?
> 
> edit: also there's no BBC SO Discovery in Kontakt.


There are threads around here where people already complain about this and they have sent videos etc. to support. IIRC someone even measured the timings etc. So far, nothing has changed and usually they say that it's by design to be more responsive for keyboard players, i.e., timings vary by velocity layers. But as pointed out, the timings even vary for the same velocity layer by RRs. So definitely some sloppy editing.


----------



## Cdnalsi

mussnig said:


> There are threads around here where people already complain about this and they have sent videos etc. to support. IIRC someone even measured the timings etc. So far, nothing has changed and usually they say that it's by design to be more responsive for keyboard players, i.e., timings vary by velocity layers. But as pointed out, the timings even vary for the same velocity layer by RRs. So definitely some sloppy editing.


That's such a BS response from them, it's kinda infuriating!


----------



## Harrisown

Correction!

It's actually Komplete Kontrol I can load BBC SO into.
I swear on my life though that I got the plugin banner picture to the left and was able to load BBC SO in Kontakt.
Might have to dig out the iMac and see if it's on there. It's what made think they were just using Kontakt under the hood with their own skin on top.
Obviously that's not happening and I'm completely wrong to the point of sounding like a conspiracy theorist but the memory is so strong!


----------



## Braveheart

Harrisown said:


> Correction!
> 
> It's actually Komplete Kontrol I can load BBC SO into.
> I swear on my life though that I got the plugin banner picture to the left and was able to load BBC SO in Kontakt.
> Might have to dig out the iMac and see if it's on there. It's what made think they were just using Kontakt under the hood with their own skin on top.
> Obviously that's not happening and I'm completely wrong to the point of sounding like a conspiracy theorist but the memory is so strong!


Ok, now I recognize you! You were playing in the movie Total Recall…


----------



## Francisco Lamolda

Cdnalsi said:


> Seems to be a programming error which hopefully Spitfire can fix...


I heard like in November last year that they were gonna fix the timing of the strings shorts (not the awful V2 spicc sound though). I haven't heard anything more about this, and probably they are focused on the Abbey Road modular libs, so I would patiently wait.

Something that I do is to use the short patch from CSS if there is a lot of shorts notes on the music that I'm writting. I have set up a patch who kinda match the sound of BBC Strings.


----------



## Cdnalsi

Francisco Lamolda said:


> I heard like in November last year that they were gonna fix the timing of the strings shorts (not the awful V2 spicc sound though). I haven't heard anything more about this, and probably they are focused on the Abbey Road modular libs, so I would patiently wait.
> 
> Something that I do is to use the short patch from CSS if there is a lot of shorts notes on the music that I'm writting. I have set up a patch who kinda match the sound of BBC Strings.


Hopefully they'll get to it soon. Fortunately in my music I've yet to need to play 16th notes spiccatos in the manner described on the previous page, but still it's an annoyance that they aren't in time.


----------



## mussnig

Cdnalsi said:


> Hopefully they'll get to it soon. Fortunately in my music I've yet to need to play 16th notes spiccatos in the manner described on the previous page, but still it's an annoyance that they aren't in time.


I know it's probably not what you want to hear but Originals Epic Strings has a very nice Short Ostinato patch (it's an ensemble patch though) that was taken from the old Albion I (which is the predecessor of Albion ONE). Obviously a different room, less mic positions etc. but it works quite well in my opinion.


----------



## Alex Fraser

BBCSO isn't perfect (what is?) but at the current discount it's a _steal._
It doesn't seem so long ago that 'Core money would only get you this sort of nonsense:






Spitfire sure aren't perfect but I disagree with the "empty substance" comments. If you've been around the block, you'll know they really have moved the game on.

<waves walking stick>


----------



## RogiervG

Alex Fraser said:


> BBCSO isn't perfect (what is?) but at the current discount it's a _steal._
> It doesn't seem so long ago that 'Core money would only get you this sort of nonsense:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire sure aren't perfect but I disagree with the "empty substance" comments. If you've been around the block, you'll know they really have moved the game on.
> 
> <waves walking stick>


Oh nice interface!  
shiny metallic looks with "love" red over it... yummy... 

but in a more serious note: indeed, SF has surely improved quite a bit. (they where already top tier developer) 


In general (for everyone here):
And remember: each library from cheap to expensive from whichever developer has some problem areas. Also don't try to shoehorn a library into doing things it isn't suppose to do (or is clearly it's weakspot..).It's about what it does really well.. you buy libs because of what it CAN do well.. not what i cannot do well. (i know GAS can influence reason/logic in this situation)


----------



## Trash Panda

Harrisown said:


> Just goes to show the quality of CSS. I just needed something with a more punchy big sound.


Check out Hollywood Orchestra, Audio Imperia or The Metropolis Arks/JXL Brass for that type of sound.


----------



## Harrisown

That's where I got it from.
Interestingly though that's on my old iMac and it's not showing up on my M1Pro MacBook Pro even after rescanning.


----------



## jaketanner

Another note on tuning issues with libraries, not just Spitfire, but in general...The more I listen to scores, notably Back To The Future and The Mummy Returns...there are some parts that are very noticeably out of tune. Could they have fixed it? I'm sure, but was it worth it over a good take...probably not. However, there is one huge difference with being out of tune live and out of tune with libraries...with live, it happens once...with libraries, it's every single time that note(s) is played, and THAT'S the biggest issue. Sure, developers want to give us a "real feel" by keeping some imperfections, but live players are not imperfect in the same spots, with the same notes...etc.


----------



## RogiervG

jaketanner said:


> with live, it happens once...


Well........  it happens more than once often.... maybe not on the same bar... but...... 

Anyway.. overall you are right ofcourse.. we cannot tune the instruments easily, if at all, since its often locked in the scripting and the samples. (limited control)


----------



## jaketanner

RogiervG said:


> Well........  it happens more than once often.... maybe not on the same bar... but......


exactly..I mean the same notes over and over don't happen...say in an ostinato, with libraries the same note being out of tune or imperfect is an ear sore...in live it's different every time, or the take gets redone.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

jaketanner said:


> Another note on tuning issues with libraries, not just Spitfire, but in general...The more I listen to scores, notably Back To The Future and The Mummy Returns...there are some parts that are very noticeably out of tune. Could they have fixed it? I'm sure, but was it worth it over a good take...probably not. However, there is one huge difference with being out of tune live and out of tune with libraries...with live, it happens once...with libraries, it's every single time that note(s) is played, and THAT'S the biggest issue. Sure, developers want to give us a "real feel" by keeping some imperfections, but live players are not imperfect in the same spots, with the same notes...etc.


This whole "We wanted to give you the real feel by keeping some imperfections"-thing always sounded like a cop out to me. If that's what they really wanted, they could have made the library with perfect tuning and then added some patches in a separate folder with samples of performances where the musicians were slightly out of tune. Then people could choose among those patches if they wanted to give their music the "real feel".


----------



## CT

Ah I see VI-Control discussions have begun yet another _kalpa_.


----------



## RogiervG

Michaelt said:


> Ah I see VI-Control discussions have begun yet another _kalpa_.


Don't bring religion into this discussion  (except the religions of GAS or VI-ism)


----------



## Alex Fraser

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> This whole "We wanted to give you the real feel by keeping some imperfections"-thing always sounded like a cop out to me. If that's what they really wanted, they could have made the library with perfect tuning and then added some patches in a separate folder with samples of performances where the musicians were slightly out of tune. Then people could choose among those patches if they wanted to give their music the "real feel".


 Funny how we all see (hear) things differently.
The sound of a French horn ringing out Air studios - out of tune - is what pricked my ears up to Spitfire in the first place.


----------



## RogiervG

Alex Fraser said:


> Funny how we all see (hear) things differently.
> The sound of a French horn ringing out Air studios - out of tune - is what pricked my ears up to Spitfire in the first place.


uh.. which lib? (they have multiple in Air studios) Don't say all.. because well.. you know.. that is higly unlikely: Different musicians, different recordings, different programming.. 
(but then again as you said.. we as humans hear often things differently  )


----------



## dcoscina

BBCSO is great for classical and concert writing. it's a very organic library. If people are looking for super tight, unrealistically perfect samples, maybe try something else. 

Real orchestras don't play in perfect rhythmic unison. There is a track in Capricorn One where a viola player enters a good beat early... it's very quiet but you hear it. I was surprised Goldsmith didn't catch it. But it's on the recording.


----------



## Alex Fraser

RogiervG said:


> uh.. which lib? (they have multiple in Air studios) Don't say all.. because well.. you know.. that is higly unlikely: Different musicians, different recordings, different programming..
> (but then again as you said.. we as humans hear often things differently  )


I'm going to say "all of them" just to annoy you, Rogierv. 
But seriously, it might well have been the brass from OG Albion.

To be fair, I think the "little bit of dirt" is a Spitfire philosophy thing. Either one is on board with it or not. Choice etc.


----------



## RogiervG

Alex Fraser said:


> I'm going to say "all of them" just to annoy you, Rogierv.







Alex Fraser said:


> To be fair, I think the "little bit of dirt" is a Spitfire philosophy thing. Either one is on board with it or not. Choice etc.


I guess it is indeed by choice/design.


----------



## Harrisown

dcoscina said:


> BBCSO is great for classical and concert writing. it's a very organic library. If people are looking for super tight, unrealistically perfect samples, maybe try something else.
> 
> Real orchestras don't play in perfect rhythmic unison. There is a track in Capricorn One where a viola player enters a good beat early... it's very quiet but you hear it. I was surprised Goldsmith didn't catch it. But it's on the recording.


I think you miss the point.


----------



## Francisco Lamolda

Alex Fraser said:


> To be fair, I think the "little bit of dirt" is a Spitfire philosophy thing. Either one is on board with it or not. Choice etc.


I get it, but it should be optional like the humanization control of VSL. And it sucks that it is not optional, because Spitfire has some very interesting ideas (and unfortunately the monopoly of some places/orchestras) but then they fuck it up in the recordings, or in the programing, or in the player. 

I just wish for a Spitfire lib with the attention to detail that Alex Wallbank has.


----------



## Francisco Lamolda

mussnig said:


> I know it's probably not what you want to hear but Originals Epic Strings has a very nice Short Ostinato patch (it's an ensemble patch though) that was taken from the old Albion I (which is the predecessor of Albion ONE). Obviously a different room, less mic positions etc. but it works quite well in my opinion.


That patch is probably the best of that lib. And the good thing is that it is not entirely an ensemble patch. From G3 to the top it is just Vl1. And to the bottom it is just Vc.


----------



## ism

Francisco Lamolda said:


> I get it, but it should be optional like the humanization control of VSL.


Except that the "humanization" of the VSL is actual a machine approximation of "humanization" (and risks, imp, becoming uncannily inhuman). Whereas when with real "humanization" need to record real performances by real humans. 

So it's a trade off endemic to the nature of the approach to the art of sampling.



Francisco Lamolda said:


> I just wish for a Spitfire lib with the attention to detail that Alex Wallbank has.



Personally, I'm very sensitive to attention to detail in sample myself, and find that libraries the SF ones (and other, like Sunset Strings, Bunker Samples etc) capture detail as extremely fine nuances. 

Other libraries offer as very different vision of attention to detail - for instance the precision and/or homogeneity of VSL or CSS etc, which are nothing if not precise. It's this focus on precision that make it possible to fake "humanization", among other expressive features. 

Sometime you want an attention, and the dimension of expressiveness that you get from a vision of attention to detail born of precision. 

But sometimes, an addition to detail that captures minute nuance as "detail", even though less precise, is ultimate more accurate in rendering a particular musicality than mere precision.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

ism said:


> But sometimes, an addition to detail that captures minute nuance as "detail", even though less precise, is ultimate more accurate in rendering a particular musicality than mere precision.


It seems to me that what you’re hinting here - perhaps unintentionally - is that a strong focus on precision in the way you are recording (and editing) your samples as a company is somehow in opposition to being able to capture real musical magic from the source, the musician(s).


----------



## ism

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> It seems to me that what you’re hinting here - perhaps unintentionally - is that a strong focus on precision in the way you are recording (and editing) your samples as a company is somehow in opposition to being able to capture real musical magic from the source, the musician(s).


More that there's an aesthetic of precision necessarily to allow more expressive modelling that's in opposition to and aesthetic of capturing imperfections and nuances of performances.

You're right that it's not always, automatically an either-or. And there's certainly room for many companies (ie. Spitfire, OT) to helpfully increase some of the precision of the editing. But I would argue that even small imperfections of editing don't really matter that much in the overall aesthetic, with certain types of musicalities. 

But there's also inevitably something lost in some of the "high precision" approaches to sampling, notably of things like CSS, MSS, VSL etc, as well as gained. 

And CSS, for instance, manages quite a lot of nuance amidst all the precision. But there are limitations.

You can't always have the best of both worlds. And there are fundamental trade offs to be made. And it's to be celebrated that different companies make different decisions.


----------



## jaketanner

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> This whole "We wanted to give you the real feel by keeping some imperfections"-thing always sounded like a cop out to me. If that's what they really wanted, they could have made the library with perfect tuning and then added some patches in a separate folder with samples of performances where the musicians were slightly out of tune. Then people could choose among those patches if they wanted to give their music the "real feel".


VSL has this feature actually...come to think of it. It allows the humanization of the samples in a percentage...its a randomization of the tuning.


----------



## jaketanner

Francisco Lamolda said:


> I get it, but it should be optional like the humanization control of VS


I just wrote that as well..LOL


----------



## Harrisown

Does anyone know what the “optimise files” thing actually did as part of the installation?


----------



## Cdnalsi

Harrisown said:


> Does anyone know what the “optimise files” thing actually did as part of the installation?


Something like Kontakt's Batch Resave apparently.


----------



## gives19

mussnig said:


> I know it's probably not what you want to hear but Originals Epic Strings has a very nice Short Ostinato patch (it's an ensemble patch though) that was taken from the old Albion I (which is the predecessor of Albion ONE). Obviously a different room, less mic positions etc. but it works quite well in my opinion.


YUP


----------



## Francisco Lamolda

Harrisown said:


> Does anyone know what the “optimise files” thing actually did as part of the installation?


If I recall correctly, it put more important files in the first place when you load an instrument. Things like the legatos and the Mix1. So it is faster to load.


----------



## Francisco Lamolda

ism said:


> Whereas when with real "humanization" need to record real performances by real humans.
> 
> But sometimes, an addition to detail that captures minute nuance as "detail", even though less precise, is ultimate more accurate in rendering a particular musicality than mere precision.


I mean, CSS is a real recording. It just doesn't have any timing and intonation issue. And if you want to create a more "human" ostinatto with CSS you just need to move some notes a little bit and in a way that you feel it "human". But if you want a perfect ostinatto with BBC just don't even try it. I would say that it has a better resoult to have everything in line and then for those who want a "human feeling" to make available an option or to do it manually than the other way around. 

Not to mention that real performances do not have that kind of imperfections. And if so, as has already been said, it happens once and no more as it is not a patch and something integrated into the players.


----------



## ism

Francisco Lamolda said:


> I mean, CSS is a real recording. It just doesn't have any timing and intonation issue. And if you want to create a more "human" ostinatto with CSS you just need to move some notes a little bit and in a way that you feel it "human". But if you want a perfect ostinatto with BBC just don't even try it. I would say that it has a better resoult to have everything in line and then for those who want a "human feeling" to make available an option or to do it manually than the other way around.


Yes, BBCSO short note timings are, at least arguably, an exception to the dynamic I was trying to describe.


----------



## Geomir

Intonation in a sample library is not realistic and doesn't make it sound more human. In a real live performance there will be some random intonations or timing imperfections inside a whole orchestra performing a complex piece. So far so good.

The problem with a sample library having intonations (or wrong timing for short notes), is that it's not realistic at all when the same note has the same intonation every time you play it!

Anyway, I can totally identify with @Harrisown. When I purchased BBC SO Core as the universal starting point for all composers worldwide, I will never forget my dissapointment whenever I was trying to play anything faster than... very slow!

They supported it with patches and even content updates, it was improved a little bit, but it is what it is. Organic, soft, classical, emotional, and slow. Still, if you get it during sales (after you get Discover for free of course), I think it deserves to be in the "top 10 best value-for-money libraries" out there.


----------



## Casiquire

RogiervG said:


> Well........  it happens more than once often.... maybe not on the same bar... but......
> 
> Anyway.. overall you are right ofcourse.. we cannot tune the instruments easily, if at all, since its often locked in the scripting and the samples. (limited control)





jaketanner said:


> Another note on tuning issues with libraries, not just Spitfire, but in general...The more I listen to scores, notably Back To The Future and The Mummy Returns...there are some parts that are very noticeably out of tune. Could they have fixed it? I'm sure, but was it worth it over a good take...probably not. However, there is one huge difference with being out of tune live and out of tune with libraries...with live, it happens once...with libraries, it's every single time that note(s) is played, and THAT'S the biggest issue. Sure, developers want to give us a "real feel" by keeping some imperfections, but live players are not imperfect in the same spots, with the same notes...etc.


This is why Melodyne is so important to me! I'll just fix the pitch in there.

I think the only ideal way to get imperfection in samples is for devs to get a new take when there's an issue, but include the imperfect take if it's fairly mild and treat it like a set of optional round robins. Then you only hear it once with perfect performances the rest of the times the same note is hit. Does this solution sound likely? Not at all. But would it take much extra time and effort for devs to implement? Also not at all.

I agree that humanization isn't the answer, at least not at this stage with tech. Eventually tech will be able to analyze our score before we hit play and the tech will be able to add in some slop in places where live players are actually likely to be a little sloppy. Until then, random humanization is helpful when using ultra precise samples like modeling or VSL where our ears immediately recognize that what we're hearing is unnaturally harmonically aligned (or, thanks to equal temperament, just slightly off from being aligned, but too consistently off to be human error, since live singers or string players will adjust to sound right) but it's not advanced enough in my opinion to add human-sounding grit.


----------



## Fleer

Well, I got BBCSO Pro for soft and slow. Which it achieves marvelously. 
HOOPUS covers the rest


----------



## Alex Fraser

Quick (rejected!) cue, so I'll throw it up here instead. 



100% BBCSO Core. No plugs, no extra sweeteners etc.


----------



## Harrisown

Not bad for a smooth R&B Beat


----------



## Alex Fraser

Harrisown said:


> Not bad for a smooth R&B Beat


That's the "day job"


----------



## branshen

Want to report that after updating my OS to windows 11, the issue of slow loading of BBCSO within my DAW seems to have improved by alot! It used to take minutes to load a patch properly, like 3-5+ min before I could play anything.. but it loads in under a minute now. I run my BBCSO samples from an external SSD.


----------



## Fleer

Any new thoughts regarding BBCSO Pro on Mac M1 native? I'm getting ready to pop the cherry on my MacBook Pro M1Max 64GB/4TB


----------



## RudyS

Alex Fraser said:


> Quick (rejected!) cue, so I'll throw it up here instead.
> 
> 
> 
> 100% BBCSO Core. No plugs, no extra sweeteners etc.



I really like it. Would love to be able to make this!


----------



## Alex Fraser

RudyS said:


> I really like it. Would love to be able to make this!


Thanks Rudy, I appreciate that.

Having spent a fair few hours now with BBCSO, I gotta sing Spitfire's praises on this.

I use BBCSO with Logic articulation maps and it's the most pain free orchestral writing I've done to date. I've literally not had to think about the technical stuff at all - that particular track is all faders, pans at zero. Just balance with modulation and expression.

They're clever cookies. I can't wait to see what they come up with at Abbey Road for the modular.


----------



## Alex Fraser

And another..



Too short for it's own thread. Quick "hero meets his fate thingy." All BBCSO Core.


----------



## muziksculp

An awesome demo by Jeff Hijlkema, using only the BBCSO Pro Library, Awesome composition, orchestration, and mixing. Sounds so realistic, cohesive, and natural.


----------



## ryevick

Sorry if it's been mentioned before but I'm hearing noise in BBCSO Pro. I haven't spent much time with it but in the low end of Violin 1 Leader and Violins 1. I am hearing it in Studio One and Cubase.

I assume others have noticed this?


----------



## Sipi Ovaska

How low are we talking? The glock for example has some really low end rumble that can just be high-passed out.


----------



## muziksculp

imho. The BBCSO Pro Leaders are more suitable to be used as (First Chairs), rather than exposed soloists, I recommended something like Joshua Bell Solo Violin for an exposed solo violin performance with the BBCSO Pro orchestra.


----------



## CT

There are some contexts in which the leaders can work nicely on their own, but generally I'd use something else. 

Maybe the transitions will get a makeover as the other strings did. That would help quite a bit! Until then, I think they're the weakest point of the library, aside from the section strings only having two dynamics. Thing is, if the leaders were more tightly programmed, they could more effectively bolster the dynamic range of the sections through layering since they have a more intense third layer at the top, so improving them really would be beneficial.


----------



## ryevick

Sipi Ovaska said:


> How low are we talking? The glock for example has some really low end rumble that can just be high-passed out.


All the way down. I hear it in the lowest 3 or 4 keys.



muziksculp said:


> imho. The BBCSO Pro Leaders are more suitable to be used as (First Chairs), rather than exposed soloists, I recommended something like Joshua Bell Solo Violin for an exposed solo violin performance with the BBCSO Pro orchestra.


I love Joshua Bell Violin!


----------



## ryevick

Michaelt said:


> There are some contexts in which the leaders can work nicely on their own, but generally I'd use something else.
> 
> Maybe the transitions will get a makeover as the other strings did. That would help quite a bit! Until then, I think they're the weakest point of the library, aside from the section strings only having two dynamics. Thing is, if the leaders were more tightly programmed, they could more effectively bolster the dynamic range of the sections through layering since they have a more intense third layer at the top, so improving them really would be beneficial.


I understand if a library is released that doesn't have the sound you would want or preform like you want. That's one thing, none of which I would expect from Spitfire Audio... but to release a library with noise baked into it, is inexcusable.


----------



## Fleer

muziksculp said:


> imho. The BBCSO Pro Leaders are more suitable to be used as (First Chairs), rather than exposed soloists, I recommended something like Joshua Bell Solo Violin for an exposed solo violin performance with the BBCSO Pro orchestra.


Yes. Joshua Bell is perfect for this. Also the new Virharmonic viola (and incoming cello).


----------



## CT

ryevick said:


> I understand if a library is released that doesn't have the sound you would want or preform like you want. That's one thing, none of which I would expect from Spitfire Audio... but to release a library with noise baked into it, is inexcusable.


Uhh... I didn't say anything about noise. I was just responding to the previous post.


----------



## ryevick

Michaelt said:


> Uhh... I didn't say anything about noise. I was just responding to the previous post.


I know, no offense. It's a conversation for all. I was bringing what you said into my comment.

Maybe you missed the comment just above that was addressing noise in the Leaders.


----------



## Alex Fraser

I...like the noise. Gives a vibe. There's a sample somewhere in the library where you can hear (builders?) talking. Can't remember where.


----------



## ryevick

Alex Fraser said:


> I...like the noise. Gives a vibe. There's a sample somewhere in the library where you can hear (builders?) talking. Can't remember where.


If it were organic in nature I MIGHT, could appreciate it and I definitely understand how people would.


----------



## Markrs

I just noticed that this thread has hit 1 million views, which is insane!


----------



## OleJoergensen

Markrs said:


> I just noticed that this thread has hit 1 million views, which is insane!


Maybe there will be free coffee and cake 🎺🎵🎶☺️


----------



## Harrisown

last night 89bpm 1 bar of 16ths in an otherwise sustained flowing piece and this library can't handle it.
No cause for celebration here....


----------



## Gerbil

Markrs said:


> I just noticed that this thread has hit 1 million views, which is insane!


Pretty nuts but it is a terrific library for the money so I’m not too suprised. I’ve built up a ridiculous collection of libraries over the years but I keep using this over and over again because it sounds so good and is easy to mix.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Markrs said:


> I just noticed that this thread has hit 1 million views, which is insane!


Question is...will this feat ever be repeated? Is it the biggest thread on VI-C? I do wonder if BBCSO represented "peak hype"


----------



## Markrs

Alex Fraser said:


> Question is...will this feat ever be repeated? Is it the biggest thread on VI-C? I do wonder if BBCSO represented "peak hype"


I couldn't find a more viewed thread (you can filter by views and posts, and it is the largest for both).

Interesting is that the next biggest is Opus, which shouldn't be surprising, as these are 2 of the best value (if you like the sound and features they offer) orchestral libraries around.

The third biggest is Infinite Series by Aaron Ventures, which is amazing given that is very much still a boutique company in size compared to Spitfire Audio and EastWest.

I think Abbey Road Modular might do it for the next biggest, with the constant updates that will probably come with that.


----------



## Geomir

Markrs said:


> Interesting is that the next biggest is Opus


Very interesting. Not so flattering though, because I am afraid that the posts in that thread can be mainly categorized as follows:
-10% hype and anticipation after the initial announcement
- 40% complaints (and jokes!) about the delay of release, without any communication about it
- 40% complaints about serious problems and bugs after the delayed release
- 10% music or composition related posts


----------



## doctoremmet

Which makes the Aaron Venture one the most positive “humongous monster thread” on here. Which comprises for 85% of positive yet increasingly silly expressions of anticipation (“any signs of Infinite Strings yet”) and 15% of praise for IB and IW.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Markrs said:


> I think Abbey Road Modular might do it for the next biggest, with the constant updates that will probably come with that.


Sounds likely. That one's already at _<checks>_ page 15 based on nothing more than a few choice quotes from Spitfire. 😆


----------



## jazzman7

Harrisown said:


> last night 89bpm 1 bar of 16ths in an otherwise sustained flowing piece and this library can't handle it.
> No cause for celebration here....


I can't tell you how many hoops they made me jump through when I reported the timing issues (MIDI files audio examples etc etc) once I sent those, They said they were aware. 

It Always irritated me that they already knew, but wanted all that backup evidence before admitting it. The biggest irritation? That was ages ago. Nothing has been done about it since.


----------



## Harrisown

jazzman7 said:


> I can't tell you how many hoops they made me jump through when I reported the timing issues (MIDI files audio examples etc etc) once I sent those, They said they were aware.
> 
> It Always irritated me that they already knew, but wanted all that backup evidence before admitting it. The biggest irritation? That was ages ago. Nothing has been done about it since.


and nothing will be done about it.
Toontrack Superior Drummer 3 has a crash I found a few years ago and it's 100% repeatable. They didn't bother fixing it and now EZ drummer 3 is released I see people reporting crashes and them asking for the project files etc etc, it's laughable. I still love their products but wow....
I'm pretty disappointed in Spitfire though. I know they are super enthusiastic people are are doing the thing they love the most, I'm sure they are great people but IMO they have too many products and they need to fix the stuff they have. We could argue BBCSO is their flagship product? 
It can't do 16ths at a tempo I would consider slow. 
Just let that sink in.....a sample library that can't do 16ths yet is somehow the most popular sample based VST right now it seems. 
Incredible.


----------



## Fleer

Now that the dust has settled, I do consider BBCSO Pro to be my ideal classical orchestra for the “softer” work while HOOpus does the louder stuff.


----------



## jazzman7

Harrisown said:


> and nothing will be done about it.
> Toontrack Superior Drummer 3 has a crash I found a few years ago and it's 100% repeatable. They didn't bother fixing it and now EZ drummer 3 is released I see people reporting crashes and them asking for the project files etc etc, it's laughable. I still love their products but wow....
> I'm pretty disappointed in Spitfire though. I know they are super enthusiastic people are are doing the thing they love the most, I'm sure they are great people but IMO they have too many products and they need to fix the stuff they have. We could argue BBCSO is their flagship product?
> It can't do 16ths at a tempo I would consider slow.
> Just let that sink in.....a sample library that can't do 16ths yet is somehow the most popular sample based VST right now it seems.
> Incredible.


I actually bought it mostly for bread and butter winds, brass and perc. I tend to use CSS for the strings most of the time, tho I have quite a few to choose from these days


----------



## Francisco Lamolda

jazzman7 said:


> I can't tell you how many hoops they made me jump through when I reported the timing issues


In this thread it is said that what Spitfire did to the shorts notes is that in higher velocities the note will trigger earlier than in lower velocities. 


> As Christians latest YouTube video discussed the art of where to cut the samples I couldn't help but ask him about his thoughts on differences in sample start timing between velocity layers. This is the reply I got! I think the last sentence is especially interesting:
> 
> _"As a general note louder notes sound quicker. Take a piano. The keys are hit faster (hence the term velocity sensitive) therefore the transfer of energy is more immediate. If you pluck a string it is a more forceful way of overcoming inertia in order to produce a note whereas bowing a note col legno takes an age to form. _*What we try and do is make the note as real sounding as possible so a degree of imitation of what happens in real life is required. Long soft notes you’ll need to play way ahead of the beat, loud pizzicato less so."*


In fact, the guy made a test and the shorts were much precise with all notes at the same velocity than not. Which means that originally the timing of the short notes was a feature that was consciously implemented to make it easier for those who like to play notes on the keyboard. But for those of us who prefer to import notes and who are perfectionists, it's hell.

I don't think it will ever be fixed (I've also given up hope in general that there will ever be an update to BBC). But I can think of a few ways to fix the timing. The first is to keep all the notes at the same speed. The second is more complicated, and requires effort and research that I don't think I'll be able to do for a few months. It is to analyse the offset of each velocity and create a script from that. I know it's possible in Cubase, but I don't have time right now to try.

Or you can always purchase CSS and make a patch with the shorts that somehow resembles the shorts on BBC.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Francisco Lamolda said:


> In this thread it is said that what Spitfire did to the shorts notes is that in higher velocities the note will trigger earlier than in lower velocities.
> 
> In fact, the guy made a test and the shorts were much precise with all notes at the same velocity than not. Which means that originally the timing of the short notes was a feature that was consciously implemented to make it easier for those who like to play notes on the keyboard. But for those of us who prefer to import notes and who are perfectionists, it's hell.
> 
> I don't think it will ever be fixed (I've also given up hope in general that there will ever be an update to BBC). But I can think of a few ways to fix the timing. The first is to keep all the notes at the same speed. The second is more complicated, and requires effort and research that I don't think I'll be able to do for a few months. It is to analyse the offset of each velocity and create a script from that. I know it's possible in Cubase, but I don't have time right now to try.
> 
> Or you can always purchase CSS and make a patch with the shorts that somehow resembles the shorts on BBC.


I once considered bouncing the BBC shorts to audio and then turning them into a Kontakt instrument. It’s only two velocity layers for most instruments, so it probably wouldn’t take too long. Then go from there to try and fix the timings.

In the end I just quit using BBC and turned to other libs. Much easier.


----------



## Flyo

How much useful could be if they update BBC with tutti patches! Also legato without dual arts. They have to keep updating their most requested library also I think


----------



## mussnig

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I once considered bouncing the BBC shorts to audio and then turning them into a Kontakt instrument. It’s only two velocity layers for most instruments, so it probably wouldn’t take too long. Then go from there to try and fix the timings.
> 
> In the end I just quit using BBC and turned to other libs. Much easier.


How do you know the number of dynamic layers? Is it written somewhere or just by listening?

Btw. I'm quite sure that the most important short articulations have more than 2 dynamic layers.


----------



## Francisco Lamolda

mussnig said:


> How do you know the number of dynamic layers? Is it written somewhere or just by listening?
> 
> Btw. I'm quite sure that the most important short articulations have more than 2 dynamic layers.


If you turn the round robins to 1 you can hear when it changes the dynamic layer. If I recall, spiccato and staccato have 3 dynamic layers.


----------



## Francisco Lamolda

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> In the end I just quit using BBC and turned to other libs. Much easier.


Of course it is much easier. That's what I do if the music have a lot of shorts. But if not, I quite like the tone of BBC strings. And the sul pont/flautando/ etc. are nice for texture. If it's a more "classical" sound what I use is CSS.


----------



## jazzman7

Francisco Lamolda said:


> In this thread it is said that what Spitfire did to the shorts notes is that in higher velocities the note will trigger earlier than in lower velocities.
> 
> In fact, the guy made a test and the shorts were much precise with all notes at the same velocity than not. Which means that originally the timing of the short notes was a feature that was consciously implemented to make it easier for those who like to play notes on the keyboard. But for those of us who prefer to import notes and who are perfectionists, it's hell.
> 
> I don't think it will ever be fixed (I've also given up hope in general that there will ever be an update to BBC). But I can think of a few ways to fix the timing. The first is to keep all the notes at the same speed. The second is more complicated, and requires effort and research that I don't think I'll be able to do for a few months. It is to analyse the offset of each velocity and create a script from that. I know it's possible in Cubase, but I don't have time right now to try.
> 
> Or you can always purchase CSS and make a patch with the shorts that somehow resembles the shorts on BBC.


I wish the timing was confined to just general differences in dynamic layers. The timing issues I found with BBCSO were specific notes in spiccato RR's. Not general differences between soft and loud, but some pretty bad timing from note to note in spots. I spent quite a bit of time finding the notes and the spots in question and won't regurgitate all the info here. There's a difference between a bit of humanity in timing and an outright sample flub. Violins 1 in the middle of probably the most used range as well. Not good. 

Horribly fatal? No, but irritating and distracting to have to repair specific spots in spiccato sections every-single-time gets old fast. I would think editing what are some pretty glaring timing issues here and there would be a relatively simple fix compared to many. I do indeed just tend to use CSS anyway so the point is moot for me now. It's just a shame that after all this time, I still would have to.

We all find ourselves shuffling MIDI notes here and there. Nothing is perfect. I guess what irritated me on this one the most was support having me spend the time tracking down and documenting the specific spots and supplying Audio and MIDI data. Only after all that, did they tell me the problem was already known. Add to that, SF now has allowed even more time to pass without action


----------



## reids

So has Maida Vale been torn down now? Was looking forward to additional instruments and even a piano Christian mentioned about recording as an add-on to BBCSO. But it's been pretty quiet now about anything new for BBCSO.


----------



## Simon Lee

reids said:


> So has Maida Vale been torn down now? Was looking forward to additional instruments and even a piano Christian mentioned about recording as an add-on to BBCSO. But it's been pretty quiet now about anything new for BBCSO.


Looks like Maida Vale is still there from what I can see on the BBCSO Instagram recent post.


----------



## Harrisown

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I once considered bouncing the BBC shorts to audio and then turning them into a Kontakt instrument. It’s only two velocity layers for most instruments, so it probably wouldn’t take too long. Then go from there to try and fix the timings.
> 
> In the end I just quit using BBC and turned to other libs. Much easier.


That's not an absolutely awful Idea actually.
I use Cubase and I COULD "render In Place" the short problematic sections (all of them ) and then just audio warp them (quantise them automatically)
It's something I shouldn't have to worry about and I'm really annoyed I do.

Do any of their other libraries suffer from these sorts of issues? I would love Abbey Road One but I'm not sure they deserve anymore of my money.


----------



## dzilizzi

reids said:


> So has Maida Vale been torn down now? Was looking forward to additional instruments and even a piano Christian mentioned about recording as an add-on to BBCSO. But it's been pretty quiet now about anything new for BBCSO.


The building is still, but from what I understand, the equipment has all been removed. Potentially, the room could be rented and a piano brought in. They won't have the soundboard and would have to do it like a remote recording. But it could be done. It wouldn't be like recording a full orchestra.


----------



## Cdnalsi

Let's just hope the piano will have more than three dynamic layers :D


----------



## mussnig

Cdnalsi said:


> Let's just hope the piano will have more than three dynamic layers :D


"Up to 4 dynamic layers on selected notes."


----------



## Alex Fraser

As I understand it, the BBCSO concept was always going to be a self contained "orchestra in a box" - not a continuing line of products. I've no idea where the mystical piano went either - perhaps it was planned but the recordings weren't up to scratch or summit.

On the tightness issue: I think that's always been the way with Spitfire stuff and it's as much of a philosophy thing than anything else. The sample is cut "where it sounds best" as a first priority. If you want hard consistency, other developers are a better bet. Different strokes for different folks, innit.


----------



## sislaney

I just want a full range strings ensemble patch.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

mussnig said:


> How do you know the number of dynamic layers? Is it written somewhere or just by listening?
> 
> Btw. I'm quite sure that the most important short articulations have more than 2 dynamic layers.


Paul said so in the dreadful long BBCSO thread. Him and Christian were asked multiple times about the no. of dynamic layers, and every time they evaded the question by giving a vague answer. Then finally they admitted there were only 2 dynamic layers in general, and 3 in a few places.

I can’t remember which ones have 3.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Francisco Lamolda said:


> Of course it is much easier. That's what I do if the music have a lot of shorts. But if not, I quite like the tone of BBC strings. And the sul pont/flautando/ etc. are nice for texture. If it's a more "classical" sound what I use is CSS.


The BBC strings sound soooo good! They’re the reason I bought BBCSO.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Harrisown said:


> That's not an absolutely awful Idea actually.
> I use Cubase and I COULD "render In Place" the short problematic sections (all of them ) and then just audio warp them (quantise them automatically)
> It's something I shouldn't have to worry about and I'm really annoyed I do.
> 
> Do any of their other libraries suffer from these sorts of issues? I would love Abbey Road One but I'm not sure they deserve anymore of my money.


I don’t have Abbey Road One, but SCS Pro and SSS Pro are fine in terms of timing issues as far as I can remember. So it might just be BBCSO that has this problem.


----------



## mussnig

sislaney said:


> I just want a full range strings ensemble patch.


I agree. I shouldn't be too hard to make something like this from the existing recordings (but maybe I am completely wrong). In my opinion it would also be enough to have it only with the most important articulations (e.g. for sketching - a bit like Century Ensemble Brass Lite).


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

I’ve seen people say you can use the flautandos as your pianissimo layer.


----------



## Francisco Lamolda

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I’ve seen people say you can use the flautandos as your pianissimo layer.


The normal long without vibrato is the real pp layer. To me ear it sounds like the top vibrato layer is f, the bottom is mp, the top non vib top is mf and he bottom is p-pp.


----------



## Flyo

Hello, I can't find anywhere... there is a way to map legato articulation for example for woods section, to Velocity instead of using the Modwheel to play every note with a different dynamic layer?


----------



## mybadmemory

Flyo said:


> Hello, I can't find anywhere... there is a way to map legato articulation for example for woods section, to Velocity instead of using the Modwheel to play every note with a different dynamic layer?


Not that I’m aware of. Long notes dynamics are controlled with modulation and short notes dynamics are controlled with velocity. You can remap short notes dynamics to also be controlled with modulation, but not the other way around I believe.


----------



## Flyo

mybadmemory said:


> Not that I’m aware of. Long notes dynamics are controlled with modulation and short notes dynamics are controlled with velocity. You can remap short notes dynamics to also be controlled with modulation, but not the other way around I believe.


Thanks. Oh man this is a huge let down for me right know for a lot of task... I was trying the same in VSL Prime still running demo period and this is just easy as select a separate folder exclusively for Velocity mapped option straight ahead!


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## olilo

Flyo said:


> Thanks. Oh man this is a huge let down for me right know for a lot of task... I was trying the same in VSL Prime still running demo period and this is just easy as select a separate folder exclusively for Velocity mapped option straight ahead!


For VSL Prime just click on the on/off button at the bottom left of the CC1 fader in the Perform tab: If it is red then CC1 is disabled for long articulation and they are controlled by velocity.


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## Zedcars

Flyo said:


> Hello, I can't find anywhere... there is a way to map legato articulation for example for woods section, to Velocity instead of using the Modwheel to play every note with a different dynamic layer?


Are you using Cubase?

If you are you can use the Input Transformer (similar to the Project Logical Editor), set it to either work on the Track or Project level with the following settings:






This will convert the velocity into CC 1 (Modulation) data. I would imagine other DAWs may have equivalent ways of achieving the same thing.


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## Flyo

Still on ProTools, so I think I don’t have that.


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## Zedcars

Flyo said:


> Still on ProTools, so I think I don’t have that.


Maybe there is a plugin that could do the same thing…


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## Cormast

Does anyone knows if and when will the BBCSO instance be optimized ? It's the only library I can't use proprely in a big template setup because of memory problems (freeze/drop-outs).

(My computer handles very large templates without any problems in kontakt)


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## Brasart

Cormast said:


> Does anyone knows if and when will the BBCSO instance be optimized ? It's the only library I can't use proprely in a big template setup because of memory problems (freeze/drop-outs).
> 
> (My computer handles very large templates without any problems in kontakt)


Are you using the VST3 version of BBCSO? Try using the regular VST version, VST3 would create freezes and drop-outs on my setup too, other than it runs very well


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## Zedcars

Chat with Louis Rugg as well…


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## Hooo

Cormast said:


> Does anyone knows if and when will the BBCSO instance be optimized ? It's the only library I can't use proprely in a big template setup because of memory problems (freeze/drop-outs).
> 
> (My computer handles very large templates without any problems in kontakt)


Are you running it off an SSD? Also, in the 'audio' section of the settings menu try adjusting the preload size and stream buffer size.


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## Cormast

Hooo said:


> Are you running it off an SSD? Also, in the 'audio' section of the settings menu try adjusting the preload size and stream buffer size.


Yes, SSD NVME. I messed up with preload size and stream buffer size many times. The loading is a bit faster sometimes but more freeze/pop/drop-out come to say "hello". And yet, I've got Ryzen 9 5900X and 108G of ram and a short audio latency. No problem at all to set up a really big template using only kontakt.


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## Hooo

Cormast said:


> Yes, SSD NVME. I messed up with preload size and stream buffer size many times. The loading is a bit faster sometimes but more freeze/pop/drop-out come to say "hello". And yet, I've got Ryzen 9 5900X and 108G of ram and a short audio latency. No problem at all to set up a really big template using only kontakt.


Oh damn, sounds like your system is well powerful enough to run it so I'm not sure what the problem would be.


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## gtrwll

Cormast said:


> Yes, SSD NVME. I messed up with preload size and stream buffer size many times. The loading is a bit faster sometimes but more freeze/pop/drop-out come to say "hello". And yet, I've got Ryzen 9 5900X and 108G of ram and a short audio latency. No problem at all to set up a really big template using only kontakt.


Do you have any Nvidia audio drivers installed in your system by any chance? It has been a few years since I had my issues with BBCSO figured out so I can’t remember for sure what it was in the end, but I remember removing some redundant Nvidia audio drivers that had installed with my GPU software (or something).


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## Francisco Lamolda

gtrwll said:


> Do you have any Nvidia audio drivers installed in your system by any chance? It has been a few years since I had my issues with BBCSO figured out so I can’t remember for sure what it was in the end, but I remember removing some redundant Nvidia audio drivers that had installed with my GPU software (or something).


Do you remember by any chance what was causing the issue? I bought a new laptop with Windows 11 and a nvidia geforce rtx. Despite having a better GPU and the same RAM as my destokp pc, it handles BBC worse.
I thought it might have something to do with the fact that I'm using the laptop audio driver instead of a dedicated one but it might be what you mention.


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## gtrwll

Francisco Lamolda said:


> Do you remember by any chance what was causing the issue? I bought a new laptop with Windows 11 and a nvidia geforce rtx. Despite having a better GPU and the same RAM as my destokp pc, it handles BBC worse.
> I thought it might have something to do with the fact that I'm using the laptop audio driver instead of a dedicated one but it might be what you mention.


Sadly no. I remember trying a lot of different things and removing the Nvidia audio driver was one of them. I think it’s running as a process in the background even if you’re using a dedicated driver like I was, and that’s messing something up. If I remember correctly, that is.

The performance could of course always be better with custom mic setups, but I’m usually writing my pieces with the default Mix 1 mic and sculpting the sound afterwards when I can raise the buffer size to maximum, so it’s not that big of an issue.


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## RudyS

If I upgrade from Core to Pro, do I remove core first and than update to pro? What will happen in my template when I do this? I'm in logic.


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## Francisco Lamolda

RudyS said:


> If I upgrade from Core to Pro, do I remove core first and than update to pro? What will happen in my template when I do this? I'm in logic.


It is not necessary to delete Core, but it gives you nothing if you have both installed (Unless you need a lighter orchestra).

About the template, if you right click on the reload button there's a little menu where you can click on "switch all the instances to Pro".


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## RudyS

Ah thanks! 

Yes maybe I'll just keep core for when I will use it on a lighter system.


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## RudyS

Francisco Lamolda said:


> It is not necessary to delete Core, but it gives you nothing if you have both installed (Unless you need a lighter orchestra).
> 
> About the template, if you right click on the reload button there's a little menu where you can click on "switch all the instances to Pro".


Just to check. Theoretically, when I have all instances of pro set on mix1,
loading will be the same as loading core?


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## doctoremmet

Francisco Lamolda said:


> It is not necessary to delete Core, but it gives you nothing if you have both installed (Unless you need a lighter orchestra).
> 
> About the template, if you right click on the reload button there's a little menu where you can click on "switch all the instances to Pro".


Is there a way to keep the Core sampleset on one’s laptop and the Pro sampleset on an external SSD, and switch between modes (using the same plugin on said laptop)? I do not mean in one session, but on a “per session” basis?

Edit: no


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## Francisco Lamolda

RudyS said:


> Just to check. Theoretically, when I have all instances of pro set on mix1,
> loading will be the same as loading core?


Yep.


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## mussnig

doctoremmet said:


> Is there a way to keep the Core sampleset on one’s laptop and the Pro sampleset on an external SSD, and switch between modes (using the same plugin on said laptop)? I do not mean in one session, but on a “per session” basis?
> 
> Edit: no


Well, yes and no.

I had Core installed on my laptop and then bought Pro and installed it to my SSD. If done in that order it worked for me. However, as soon as I moved Core, I couldn't separate them again. Also, I couldn't find anything in the config file of the Spitfire App to redo this and support also told me that this is not possible (unless you manually relocate your library every time). In my opinion this is a huge oversight - would be a perfect scenario for switching between Core and Pro.


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## doctoremmet

mussnig said:


> In my opinion this is a huge oversight - would be a perfect scenario for switching between Core and Pro.


Absolutely. The entire reason I got Core was that I use it as my “laptop orchestra”. Now I can get Pro, but I wouldn’t want to lose my workflow.


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## Fleer

Wonderful vid by John SkipPy Lehmkuhl on using BBCSO (even the free version) in Unify. Watch from 5:45


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## Braveheart

Does BBCSO Pro can be working with 16 gb of ram and a 5400 or 7200 rpm drive on Win 11?


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## Tremendouz

Anyone on Windows 10/11 and Reaper suffering from this bug(?):
A full 40+ track Core template with default settings uses around 28-29GB RAM. Alright, let's cut the preload buffer size to half.

Total RAM usage is now 15-16GB.

Save and reload the project and it's back to 28-29GB. The preload buffer is where I set it but I need to set it again every time after I load the project to reduce the RAM usage.


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## Tremendouz

Braveheart said:


> Does BBCSO Pro can be working with 16 gb of ram and a 5400 or 7200 rpm drive on Win 11?


I can only talk about my own experience but if you see my message above, even Core is using almost all my 32GB RAM because of what I suppose is a bug. So, anecdotally I can't recommend BBCSO if you only have 16GB RAM. But perhaps the bug doesn't happen on all computers and DAWs.


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## Alex Fraser

I’ve done “all in” using BBCSO core on 16gb. It’s possible, but you have to reduce the preload to claw some memory back. Also SSD. 

It’s tight though.


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## Tremendouz

Alex Fraser said:


> I’ve done “all in” using BBCSO core on 16gb. It’s possible, but you have to reduce the preload to claw some memory back. Also SSD.
> 
> It’s tight though.


Have you encountered the bug where the RAM usage doesn't seem to care about the preload buffer setting after reloading a project and you need to set it again for it to actually take effect?


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## method1

Here are a couple experimental IRs attempting to approximate MV, still working on it.


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## mybadmemory

method1 said:


> Here are a couple experimental IRs attempting to approximate MV, still working on it.


Interesting! Care to share how they were done?


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## method1

mybadmemory said:


> Interesting! Care to share how they were done?


One is accentize chameleon with some manual tweaking & the other is a bit of a "convoluted" process with IZ dialog match


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