# Recommendations for "MIDI Mockup" tutorials/info?



## K8ch (May 28, 2015)

Hi Everyone,

I have been trying to teach myself how to make instruments sound more realistic.
Naturally, having libraries w/multiple articulation is a big step, but as I've learned, tweaking the MIDI CC's is the way to add the final touches/nuances.

I'm fascinated by how MIDI CC's work together to simulate articulations and to make those instruments sound realistic. 
So, I've been trying to learn as much about that, as I can

To this end, I've done a few things:
1) Subscribed to Groove3 (they have a good MIDI Orchestration series)
2) Searched for "MIDI mockup" in YouTube.
3) Watch some Youtube vids about how specific orchestral instruments are played.

I know that instruments should play only the notes in their natural ranges, and that horn lines need to allow moments when the player can take a breath, but there must be a lot more aspects of this, that I can learn about. 


So, I am looking for any additional resources that you can suggest, that would show how to simulate real performances.

Any suggestions/websites/tutorials/book/videos that you might recommend, would be very, very welcome!


I anxiously await hearing from any of you!



Peace,
K8ch

PS: I love this forum, and I have learned much from it.
Thank you!!


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## bcarwell (May 28, 2015)

I've gotten some great and inexpensive tutorials from Macprovideo and Tutsplus, as well as Mike Verta's series. Just watch for sales though for the Mac and Tuts. But as you noted the biggest source is YouTube, but you have to be very persistent in searching. And of course the vendor libraries (notably Vienna, Cinesamples, Cinematic Strings, etc.) also have great product-specific tutorials on getting the most out of the particular libraries. And I am taking a course from Thinkspace on the subject. No affiliation whatsoever with any of the aforementioned....

Happy hunting. And please post back any jewels you find.

Bob


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## JohnG (May 28, 2015)

Random suggestions:

*1. Use a lot of CC information.* Sometimes you have to shape each note of each section with multiple CCs to get what you want.

*2. Don't over-think what a live orchestra can do.* Unless you're writing a piece that will be replaced by live players, don't worry too much about whether the piece stays too high for the French Horns or trumpets or or the flutes don't have time to breathe or what have you; with a mockup you are already labouring under the limitations of what can be done with samples. There is no reason also to assume the limitations of what live players can do.

*3. Don't play the piano.* I am not suggesting this is your particular thing, but many mockups sound like "I improvised this piece at the keyboard and now paste the melody -- here -- and the bass -- here....." This doesn't usually sound that good.

*4. Change register. * Many mockups start with the instrumentation in a particular range and then sit there -- same instrumentation, same range. Do not do this.

*5. Don't forget to compose. * The internet and the world are full of decent-sounding mockups that, nevertheless, lack any musical originality, technique, or even fun. Don't get me wrong -- I like "Louie Louie" and the Sex Pistols along with Buxtehude and William Byrd, so I'm not advocating academic style. But another D-minor drone with an ostinato and some Real Big Drums we don't need.


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## Pasticcio (May 28, 2015)

As Bob suggested, Mike's Virtousity masterclass is a good way to start. 
MacProVideos also have a 4h long class called 'The MIDI Orchestra - Enhancing Realism'. Haven't taken it myself, but there's probably some useful information there.

Also, http://www.amazon.com/The-Guide-MIDI-Orchestration-4e/dp/0240814134 is pretty popular.


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## Jdiggity1 (May 28, 2015)

Find 'walkthrough' videos of the products you have. Even watch product demos of libraries you don't have.
You could look up writing for specific sections, such as "strings midi writing" or "midi percussion" etc.

Many members here have put up their own helpful videos, including Spitfire Audio, Daniel James, Alex Pfeffer, Mike Verta, Blakus, TheDarris, Cinematic Strings, G.E. Productions, Thinkspace Education, among others.

An oldie but a goodie for beginners: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyLDTvAePGo

I think the important thing is to have a mod-wheel that you can use, and just perform on some of your virtual instruments. You don't have to record, just play them. Play them expressively.


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## K8ch (May 28, 2015)

Thanks!


These are great suggestions...so I really, really appreciate that you folks took the time to share these with me.
(Gawd, I love this stuff!!)


The "vendor libraries" suggestion(s) is/were good. This had not occurred to me, so I'll definitely give them a shot.


The "Guide To MIDI Orcherstration" is a book I got from the local library twice, now (thanks to "inter-library loans', my local library got the book from another library, many miles away...for free!! Your library can probably do the same thing!). 
That, too, was very helpful. 
Sorry I hadn't mentioned that I was aware of the book already.


JohnG: Yep... MIDI CC is really a big part of this, so that's where I'm trying to focus a lot of my attention.


Yes, there's a mod-wheel on my keyboard, but I also have the NanoKontrol which I tend to use, instead.
(Most MIDI is input using my guitar (and a "triple play" MIDI pickup), so I don't use the keyboard all that often.


RE: "The MIDI Orchestra - Enhancing Realism": 
There are YouTube videos available that appear to be what you're referring to...so I'm going to watch them



Thank you very much!!
If you think of any more suggestions, please don't hesitate to share them.




Peace,

K8ch
(keithhaydon.com/Music.htm)


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## scarred bunny (May 28, 2015)

To JohnG's list, I would add: don't be shy about layering articulations where appropriate. I had a bit of an epiphany when I realized I could do this. Sometimes you'll find you have two (or more) articulations that all have certain characteristics that are appropriate for what you're trying to say. Don't be afraid to stack them on top on each other. Like playing two different short note articulations (or one long and one short) on top of each other when you need the attack of one and the length of the other. While this may not be 'realistic' strictly speaking... eh, who cares, a mockup is all trickery and make-believe anyway, and any cheating you may have to do to get the sound out is fair game if you ask me. 

CC:s are important. Both which ones you use, the levels you set them to, the shape of the controller curves and everything. You can do a lot with just CC1 and CC11, but beyond that it gets very library specific so it's hard to give specific pointers. So read your library's manual. Be prepared to spend quite a bit of time on CCs. Shape every note with love. And experiment with both playing it in via your controller of choice and drawing it in and see what works for you. 

In general, I think the best thing I ever did for my midi programming skills was making mockups of classical pieces. Not necessarily whole pieces, but various segments here and there that I like or that are interesting. Many scores are public domain so you can see plainly what the notes are (although you can try doing it by ear first and then use the score to check how you did - great way to train your ear), and you can find recordings of them to use as an aural reference. Find something you like and try to mimick it as close as you can. Listen to the recording and let your ear guide you. You'll learn a lot about both music in general and midi programming, and you'll soon get a better idea of what your chosen libraries can and cannot do. 

(If you're like me, you'll also get discouraged when you realize that the best you can achieve with samples is still like a pretty-looking but scentless plastic flower when you A/B it with the real thing. And then you'll give up and just go play metal guitar or make psytrance or something instead for a while. And then realize that maybe there's some merit in the stylized artificiality of the mockup midi orchestra after all, if you accept and embrace it for what it is. But as far as learning... I think trying to mimick the real thing is a pretty good exercise.)

The previously mentioned Virtuosity by Mike Verta is also great. His Orchestration 2 class also had some useful tips on balancing your template and whatnot, if I recall. The orchestration video on MacProVideo is really good too.


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## Beat Kaufmann (May 28, 2015)

Do not forget to mix your midi orchestra as you would do it with samples.
So create different depths for simulate the depth of a stage.

As an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMAkPT9ggtg
(The piece is "unfortunately" played with samples here)

It would be probably good to produce audio files of the midi tracks for making a real sounding final mix.

I wish you a lot of success!
Beat


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## Christof (May 28, 2015)

In my opinion the best way to get as close as possible to the real thing is to listen to orchestral recordings.
Try to understand what the instruments are doing, phrasing, dynamics, tempo fluctuation, even human inaccuracy.
Do some mockups of famous scores and then do an A/B comparison.
Trust your ears, they are fantastic!


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## thesteelydane (May 29, 2015)

Others have mentioned it, but the Macprovidoe tutorial by Peter Swartz is really comprehensive and by far the best thing I have done for myself in this regard. Highly recommended. Just take a look at the index and see for yourself: 

http://www.macprovideo.com/tutorial/orc ... ng-realism


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## skyy38 (Feb 3, 2016)

K8ch said:


> I know that instruments should play only the notes in their natural ranges, and that horn lines need to allow moments when the player can take a breath, but there must be a lot more aspects of this, that I can learn about.



Any player who is pushing air through an instrument mouth piece has to "take a breath"
Let's use the easier term for that statement, which is called "phrasing."


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## skyy38 (Feb 3, 2016)

Christof said:


> In my opinion the best way to get as close as possible to the real thing is to listen to orchestral recordings.
> Try to understand what the instruments are doing, phrasing, dynamics, tempo fluctuation, even human inaccuracy.
> Do some mockups of famous scores and then do an A/B comparison.
> Trust your ears, they are fantastic!



True! And my "listening teacher" is one of the best on the planet.

It's called the STAR WARS soundtrack.


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## JonFairhurst (Feb 3, 2016)

I've written for samples and I've done some arrangements for a live orchestra. With samples, I can string together all the notes I'd like for wind players with infinite lung capacity. I'll think about breathing and could add gaps here and there, but why bother?

Writing for real human players is another matter. I absolutely consider phrasing to keep Elisa, our clarinetist, from thinking I'm an idiot. And I consider ranges and playability to keep our string players from wanting to kill me. I want them to look forward to my next piece of music rather than groaning.

Samples don't glare at you and talk behind your back if you abuse them. 

Anyway, if you really want to write for humans, find a Community Orchestra, join up, and offer your work. It's one thing to write for a theoretical player. It's another thing to write for "Bob", who generally plays too loud, can phrase melodies okay, but who has difficulty with syncopation. Orchestrate well, and you can help "Bob" shine.


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## Jdiggity1 (Jul 6, 2016)

I recently launched a site to give beginners a bit of a head-start with MIDI mockups. Might be of use to some people here?
It's based around downloadable project files containing MIDI and routing for specific sample libraries.
At the moment you can download project and full score for an orchestral piece made entirely with EWQLSO and Spaces. Would be a good start for if you just subscribed to Composer Cloud.
More products for different sample libraries will be added over the coming weeks to months.

https://synthestration.com


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## streetster (Jul 6, 2016)

Jdiggity1 said:


> I recently launched a site to give beginners a bit of a head-start with MIDI mockups. Might be of use to some people here?
> It's based around downloadable project files containing MIDI and routing for specific sample libraries.
> At the moment you can download project and full score for an orchestral piece made entirely with EWQLSO and Spaces. Would be a good start for if you just subscribed to Composer Cloud.
> More products for different sample libraries will be added over the coming weeks to months.
> ...



i think you are onto something here....awesome idea...So would it still be suitable if I don't own EW stuff?


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## devonmyles (Jul 6, 2016)

Noticed this yesterday.
Hoping you do this for the VSL special editions.


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## Jdiggity1 (Jul 6, 2016)

streetster said:


> i think you are onto something here....awesome idea...So would it still be suitable if I don't own EW stuff?


The project available is written specifically for EWQLSO Gold or higher, so the MIDI data and the way the tracks are layered wont really line up with other libraries.



devonmyles said:


> Noticed this yesterday.
> Hoping you do this for the VSL special editions.


It's on the list.
The issue is that I can only offer templates with products i own (unless any devs out there are happy to sponsor?)
I use VSL SE WW a lot, so it would be nice to feature them in something.


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## devonmyles (Jul 7, 2016)

Jdiggity1 said:


> The project available is written specifically for EWQLSO Gold or higher, so the MIDI data and the way the tracks are layered wont really line up with other libraries.
> 
> 
> It's on the list.
> ...




Ok, thank's for checking in.
I have signed up to your newsletter, so I will keep my eyes open.


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## Silence-is-Golden (Jul 7, 2016)

JohnG said:


> *5. Don't forget to compose. * The internet and the world are full of decent-sounding mockups that, nevertheless, lack any musical originality, technique, or even fun. Don't get me wrong -- I like "Louie Louie" and the Sex Pistols along with Buxtehude and William Byrd, so I'm not advocating academic style. But another D-minor drone with an ostinato and some Real Big Drums we don't need


This is...., refreshing!!
Glad to know there are similar assesments with other musicians/composers.

Much of that music is very predictable and I view it as scripted music: do this here, that there...and then the listener will be happy & satisfied. Like a fast food company.

I fully endorse your post JohnG!


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## Light and Sound (Jul 7, 2016)

There are three things which I would recommend when it comes to midi mockups:

1. Learn to LOVE mixing, become obsessive about it. Setting up a well mixed template _can _save you from scrapping a good idea that sounds bad due to the mix

2. While CC's ARE important, sometimes less is more (they are still real recordings of musicians, and riding CC's too much, especially towards the higher end of the instrument can be detrimental) my general rule is to think about how the musicians were playing during the sample versus how I want them to play a phrase, and then only insert midi where needed.

3. Think both vertically and horizontally with your orchestration. This is more composition than midi mockup, but just having a fantastic vertical arrangement for one section, or a constant arrangement throughout the piece, can be detrimental - the melody/rhythms should spread around the orchestra/sections very fluidly, almost forcing the arrangement at times!


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