# My percussion is garbage



## Fenicks

Percussion and I are not well acquainted. I'm a singer and have always been more about melody and harmony than anything else. I'm trying to produce my own songs and want to include drums and other percussion but every attempt I make is embarrassingly bad. I've had to admit to myself: I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to making a beat. To remedy this I've been listening to songs and watching live videos with percussion I love and they're not always that complex, but I find it hard to replicate for some reason. Seeing the musicians playing the instruments really helps. I tend to like repetitive ritualistic kind of percussion. Some examples:





Are there any videos or tutorials or exercises on drumming and percussion y'all can recommend me to help a newbie find her rhythm? Thank you.

I'm using drums and percussion from Dark Era and Moonkits.


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## Living Fossil

My advice would be: buy a Djembe and have a look at some YT tutorials.
This will help to get some basics straight in a much shorter time as if you're only programming them, it also helps you getting a real physical connection to the kinetic part of how rhythms work.

(also, since you can't buy & practice every percussive instrument: watching videos that are practical drum tutorials give you more insight than most of the midi-programming tutorials)

The interesting thing with drums is that patterns that seem to be extremely simple (and indeed are quite simple when played slowly) can be very efficient and groovy.
Like some in this (more or less random) examples:


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## purple

My answer to this is the same as just about any music question about "how to get better at x". listen to music you like and learn how it happens. Copy it in as much detail as possible to get into the fine little things that make a good groove. The more you do it the better you get at listening and the listening will transfer into your playing and writing as you have a more diverse palette to work from.


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## JohnG

If you are writing songs, there are quite a few "pre-made" drum tracks that you can use. They come with full songs all laid out and various sections -- intro, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus2, ending.

There are lots of song-structured libraries like this for drum kits but there are plenty for other kinds of percussion (less song-based).

Is that what you are talking about?

It may sound canned and uncreative but actually many of these libraries sound great and you can get back to your vocals and chord changes quicker.

Steven Slate Drums, EZ Drummer -- there are quite a few. Not to mention third party midi sets that can be played back on these various drum engines.


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## el-bo

JohnG said:


> Steven Slate Drums, EZ Drummer -- there are quite a few. Not to mention third party midi sets that can be played back on these various drum engines.


Also, Sennheiser's DrumMic'a! has a good selection of MIDI patterns, triggering a pretty good kit. And it's FREE


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## Mike Marino

Fenicks said:


> Percussion and I are not well acquainted. I'm a singer and have always been more about melody and harmony than anything else. I'm trying to produce my own songs and want to include drums and other percussion but every attempt I make is embarrassingly bad. I've had to admit to myself: I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to making a beat. To remedy this I've been listening to songs and watching live videos with percussion I love and they're not always that complex, but I find it hard to replicate for some reason. Seeing the musicians playing the instruments really helps. I tend to like repetitive ritualistic kind of percussion. Some examples:
> 
> Are there any videos or tutorials or exercises on drumming and percussion y'all can recommend me to help a newbie find her rhythm? Thank you.
> 
> I'm using drums and percussion from Dark Era and Moonkits.


I'm not sure about tutorials but, as a drummer/percussionist myself, I tend to think of the parts in layers. Something like: low drums, mid drums, high drums, ticky/shaker stuff, and any sub bass hits. I'll create a separate instrument for each layer, starting with your fundamental rhythm, then experimenting rhythmically in each layer. It's just a starting point really. The thing I like about layers is you can take a bunch of simple rhythms and make it appear/sound more complex than it really is (if that's what you're after).

Depending on what other libraries you own (like NI's West Africa) you can listen to full percussion loops, then hear individual instruments play their parts solo. Other libraries may do this as well. Alternatively, if you have an iPhone, check out an app called Djembefola! (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/djembefola/id1093859891)

This app is used to practice playing djembe in many styles but also allows you the ability mute AND solo each layer of the full practice loop. It also has a built-in metronome allowing you to slow things down as well as the music notation to follow. I don't think it's free (I'm not on iPhone) but might be worth it for your cause. Here's a video of someone using the app: 

I hope this helps a little!


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## Trash Panda

You could always use the cheat code of polyrhythms to make your percussion interesting.


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## Fenicks

JohnG said:


> If you are writing songs, there are quite a few "pre-made" drum tracks that you can use. They come with full songs all laid out and various sections -- intro, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus2, ending.
> 
> There are lots of song-structured libraries like this for drum kits but there are plenty for other kinds of percussion (less song-based).
> 
> Is that what you are talking about?
> 
> It may sound canned and uncreative but actually many of these libraries sound great and you can get back to your vocals and chord changes quicker.
> 
> Steven Slate Drums, EZ Drummer -- there are quite a few. Not to mention third party midi sets that can be played back on these various drum engines.


I could try this but I think it would be better in the long run to figure out how to make my own drum tracks, no? It's not that I'm averse to using pre-made midi drum tracks but I worry about how it would encourage me to not strike out on my own. I will look into it though.


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## Fenicks

Mike Marino said:


> I'm not sure about tutorials but, as a drummer/percussionist myself, I tend to think of the parts in layers. Something like: low drums, mid drums, high drums, ticky/shaker stuff, and any sub bass hits. I'll create a separate instrument for each layer, starting with your fundamental rhythm, then experimenting rhythmically in each layer. It's just a starting point really. The thing I like about layers is you can take a bunch of simple rhythms and make it appear/sound more complex than it really is (if that's what you're after).


The method you describe is what I've been doing, though it's yet to yield anything good, hah! I will persist at it. It's easy enough to lay down a fundamental drum beat but filling it in with all the other interesting stuff is where I flail most. It often sounds chaotic and unmusical. Part of my problem I think is that I'm writing the percussion after I've tracked the chords and harmony, without having given any thought to the drums before, and as such these different parts of the music don't 'glue' together as organically as they should. I want to try writing some tracks with the percussion finished first.


purple said:


> My answer to this is the same as just about any music question about "how to get better at x". listen to music you like and learn how it happens. Copy it in as much detail as possible to get into the fine little things that make a good groove. The more you do it the better you get at listening and the listening will transfer into your playing and writing as you have a more diverse palette to work from.


Good idea. I will attempt to recreate some of my favourite percussion patterns as practice.


Trash Panda said:


> You could always use the cheat code of polyrhythms to make your percussion interesting.



Thanks for this! I found this video informative. I think I've accidentally used polyrhythms before, so knowing some of the theory behind it will help me to be less clumsy. 

Thank you to everyone for your responses, I have read them all and appreciate each one! I have so much to learn.


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## X-Bassist

If you don't have natural rhythm, I would avoid the advice to buy a drum and practice, many people are just not drummers. Thankfully there are many instruments that can help. 

Personally my favorite is Addictive Drums, just because I've found fabulous beats for it and they can be mixed or unmixed to your hearts content. It does drums and percussion, but more of the former.

For Percussion help I would suggest Stylus RMX, in that it has many built in grooves that can be manipulated. So finding the right groove or changing what's there to fit is easy. 



It's not cheap but Spectrosonics is great and I believe an update to Stylus is coming soon.

If you could use something cheaper I can suggest Rhythmus ($60):


Sometimes these libraries can fill the rhythms, other times they are a starting point and by adding simple hits and fills you can quickly get a great sounding rhythm section.


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## Living Fossil

X-Bassist said:


> If you don't have natural rhythm, I would avoid the advice to buy a drum and practice, many people are just not drummers. Thankfully there are many instruments that can help.


The sense of my suggestion isn't to make somebody a drummer, but to improve the sense for rhythm and getting a basic overview.


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## purple

X-Bassist said:


> If you don't have natural rhythm,


Hooey. Nobody has "natural rhythm". It's a learned skill like anything else.


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## jcrosby

If you play an instrument you have rhythm. You're just telling yourself you don't.

100% agree with buying a drum, or two... Percussion is just as much about feel as it is about skill. I picked up drums by ear as a toddler so technique isn't required necessarily. (Obvioulsy technique helps!!! Don't misinterpret that! I'm great at putting my foot in my mouth ) I'm just emphasizing that it's also very much instinctive, to the point of a toddler picking it up by ear, and it's a tactile, if not primitive experience... Having something physical and tactile would almost certainly help you feel more connected with rhythm... A skill you already have even if you think you don't.

And although this might be the pricier route in terms of MIDI, if you find that having a hand drum helps, you might look into something like a percussion multipad down the road...

https://www.roland.com/us/products/handsonic_hpd-20/
Finally there's a whole niche of composers that collect and prefer to record percussion despite having an arsenal of beautifully recorded and mixed percussion in Kontakt... For some it's a physical thing, a different musical mindset, etc.


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## Technostica

I enjoy using a Maschine controller alongside the Expansion packs to create rhythms. 
I may start with a preset performance but once I mute half the parts, change the instruments assigned and add my own parts it sounds completely different. 
That can be a good source of inspiration. 
Having the physical controller helps a lot for me as opposed to using a keyboard. 
You can also quantatise some of the parts and not others, play around with the feel.


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## SergeD

If you can't dance you can't play percussion. Learn how to dance and listen to your body


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## Ashermusic

purple said:


> Hooey. Nobody has "natural rhythm". It's a learned skill like anything else.


I disagree. Of course, like any other talent, there are people who are from the gitgo more or less good with rhythm than others. You see it in videos of children less than one year old.

But one can develop a better sense of it by listening and study. I did.


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## JohnG

X-Bassist said:


> Sometimes these libraries can fill the rhythms, other times they are a starting point and by adding simple hits and fills you can quickly get a great sounding rhythm section.


This ^^is a good way of putting it. 

drums and drum kits are a lot more subtle and elusive to emulate than might at first appear . Of course most drum loop engines also include kits you can use to start from scratch, so maybe you could “meet in the middle.”

It depends partly on your focus, but also what your audience is.

Sometimes it’s ok to use pre-made drums the same way one often works with a live drummer. You can notate every last hi-hat or you can write “smooth ballad feel,” indicate fills and maybe where verses and choruses are, and let him do his thing.


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## visiblenoise

Fenicks said:


> Part of my problem I think is that I'm writing the percussion after I've tracked the chords and harmony, without having given any thought to the drums before, and as such these different parts of the music don't 'glue' together as organically as they should.


I think there's truth in this. The best compositions have space written into the phrases for percussion, almost like melody, harmony, and percussion are all just facets of the same thing (!). If you're adding percussion after the fact, you either have to stick with simple patterns and minimal fills or find the gaps that your composition naturally left and see if those are better off being filled in or not.


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## sinkd

I would second the idea of trying out some MIDI grooves with the instruments you have. I have a lot of groove monkee loops that I go to from time to time. When you find something you like, try playing a couple of parts over it to get the feel, and then turn off the original loop. What you are going to discover eventually is that groovy rhythms are seldom very "quantized." That said, if you have LinnDrum or other groove quantizing capabilities in your DAW, experiment with those to see what you like. Sometimes just a 52-53% swing groove can make an amazing difference.

I find it hard to play percussion grooves on a MIDI keyboard, so you also might want to think about a pad controller and some sticks or mallets. A djembe (already mentioned) or a cajon are also good for getting the feel, and audio loops can be converted to MIDI, if you are going back to samples.


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## purple

Ashermusic said:


> I disagree. Of course, like any other talent, there are people who are from the gitgo more or less good with rhythm than others. You see it in videos of children less than one year old.
> 
> But one can develop a better sense of it by listening and study. I did.


Nobody is born a good drummer (except maybe those with some physical advantage like long feet for the pedals or whatever). Perhaps they learned earlier than others, but that does not make the skill unlearnable for anyone else, nor does it mean that someone picking up the skill later can't be as good or even better than that kid who started at 6 months or whatever.

Even if some people are just born with some innate talent (I don't really believe this myself in this scenario but I will entertain it for now), the value of this talent is nothing compared to dedicated and focused practice.

Even with that said, our OP here doesn't want to be the best drummer in the world. They want to write better percussion parts in their music. And for that I don't think you need to hit the woodshed with a drumset for 10 hours a day or worry about what some 2 year old on youtube can do. Quite honestly I think just focusing in on the drum parts in whatever music you already listen to will go a long way here, with not much extra practice time needed to learn the basics of a good groove.


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## Ashermusic

purple said:


> Nobody is born a good drummer (except maybe those with some physical advantage like long feet for the pedals or whatever). Perhaps they learned earlier than others, but that does not make the skill unlearnable for anyone else, nor does it mean that someone picking up the skill later can't be as good or even better than that kid who started at 6 months or whatever.
> 
> Even if some people are just born with some innate talent (I don't really believe this myself in this scenario but I will entertain it for now), the value of this talent is nothing compared to dedicated and focused practice.
> 
> Even with that said, our OP here doesn't want to be the best drummer in the world. They want to write better percussion parts in their music. And for that I don't think you need to hit the woodshed with a drumset for 10 hours a day or worry about what some 2 year old on youtube can do. Quite honestly I think just focusing in on the drum parts in whatever music you already listen to will go a long way here, with not much extra practice time needed to learn the basics of a good groove.


Having a naturally good sense of rhythm and being a naturally talented drummer are two different discussions.


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## rmak

I have the same issue as you and don’t like programming drums. I tried programming before using virtual instruments like bfd3 and battery 4 or layering samples myself; it is a skill I guess that you can develop if you want to. I am a beginner and still learning, but as of right now, I am putting more emphasis, time, and effort on harmony and melody when I am working on a composition. When I get something good going, I try to find drum loops or utilize the Euclidean beat tool to see how it sounds. I may be wrong in saying this, but at least for me, more often than not I recall melodic and harmonic material in catchy tunes. I don’t remember the last track I heard where I would take a strong liking to the song because it had the best drum or percussive pattern. I am just speaking for myself of course as someone that has limited time and will be working full time. I find that loops work best for me and allow me to focus more on other elements that I deem more crucial and essential.


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## Fenicks

SergeD said:


> If you can't dance you can't play percussion. Learn how to dance and listen to your body


I love to dance and have been known to be good at it. That's not translating into making my own percussion though... maybe I should try dancing to my music?

This discussion is making me want to buy a hoop drum...


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## Rossy

purple said:


> Nobody is born a good drummer (except maybe those with some physical advantage like long feet for the pedals or whatever). Perhaps they learned earlier than others, but that does not make the skill unlearnable for anyone else, nor does it mean that someone picking up the skill later can't be as good or even better than that kid who started at 6 months or whatever.
> 
> Even if some people are just born with some innate talent (I don't really believe this myself in this scenario but I will entertain it for now), the value of this talent is nothing compared to dedicated and focused practice.
> 
> Even with that said, our OP here doesn't want to be the best drummer in the world. They want to write better percussion parts in their music. And for that I don't think you need to hit the woodshed with a drumset for 10 hours a day or worry about what some 2 year old on youtube can do. Quite honestly I think just focusing in on the drum parts in whatever music you already listen to will go a long way here, with not much extra practice time needed to learn the basics of a good groove.


I agree, I have been a drummer for over 40 years, some session and plenty of bands. It was a lot of hard work, lots and lots of practicing and listening to as many drummers as possible so dont feel too bad.
I use an electronic drum kit which is midi into my pc so trying to create rhythmic parts on a keyboard is something I have tried but not been very successful. As far as rhythmic content for a non drummer, think of a melodic line, write it and then convert it to the drum track. You would be very surprised at how much rhythm is in your phrasing, I have shown a couple of people this and it worked out not too bad.


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## Fenicks

Thanks for the awesome advice everyone! I'm gonna play around with midi loops and grooves as per your suggestions later today. I have drum pads on my keyboard that I need to get better at using. I forgot to mention that I also own Superior Drummer 2 but have found it somewhat overwhelming to use.


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## purple

Ashermusic said:


> Having a naturally good sense of rhythm and being a naturally talented drummer are two different discussions.


Either way. Learned skill.


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## SergeD

Fenicks said:


> I love to dance and have been known to be good at it. That's not translating into making my own percussion though... maybe I should try dancing to my music?


Why not? Use your feet as a percussive instrument as well as clapping your hands. 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4


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## Ashermusic

purple said:


> Either way. Learned skill.


Sorry, I have seen under one year olds who could keep time and those who couldn’t. Way too early to have learned or not learned it.


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## NekujaK

I've played piano and guitar for decades, but never had any aptitude whatsoever for drums/percussion. It's purely a physical coordination thing - I can hear the beat/pattern/fill that I want in my head, but am completely inept at actually executing it.

I'm sure with practice I could become halfway competent, but quite honestly, I'd rather spend my time composing/producing/recording, so I've let go of the idea that I need to do everything myself, and fully embrace the idea of using percussion loops. After all, back before I had a DAW, I would record at studios and hire drummers (and other players) to play on my projects. While definitely not the same as a live drummer, I consider loops to be like hired guns who are far more competent at playing rhythms than I am


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## purple

Ashermusic said:


> Sorry, I have seen under one year olds who could keep time and those who couldn’t. Way too early to have learned or not learned it.


?? Yes 
I've seen under 1 year olds who know how to say "mama" and some that don't... What's your point? They generally both figure it out eventually. And the one who figures it out later might even end up being a TV anchor some day. You'd be surprised at how much babies and children can learn in that time even if it isn't obvious on the surface.


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## Robo Rivard

Fenicks said:


> Thanks for the awesome advice everyone! I'm gonna play around with midi loops and grooves as per your suggestions later today. I have drum pads on my keyboard that I need to get better at using. I forgot to mention that I also own Superior Drummer 2 but have found it somewhat overwhelming to use.


Fenicks, you say that you are a singer and want to make your own songs. But can you sing your songs to a metronome, to a "click track"?... If the answer is No, then the solution might not be finding a good library. The drum pads on your keyboard should be enough to get you going. Just remember that a drummer has more than one limb, and a sequencer has more than one track... Toontrack Superior Drummer 3 is way more useful than version 2. The included MIDI sequencer could meet all of your expectations, with the proper MIDI files.


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## Fenicks

Robo Rivard said:


> Fenicks, you say that you are a singer and want to make your own songs. But can you sing your songs to a metronome, to a "click track"?... If the answer is No, then the solution might not be finding a good library. The drum pads on your keyboard should be enough to get you going. Just remember that a drummer has more than one limb, and a sequencer has more than one track... Toontrack Superior Drummer 3 is way more useful than version 2. The included MIDI sequencer could meet all of your expectations, with the proper MIDI files.


My intent isn't to find a library to remedy my problem... I am seeking advice on how I can improve my understanding of the basics of rhythm in order to create interesting percussion from the libraries I already own. I can sing along to a click track. It's not that I don't know how to move or groove. While on the bus today I took note of the bus' indicator noise and found that with a few hand claps I could create a cool beat with it. It's that when sitting at my computer tracking along to my melodies and harmonies I can't seem to make the right percussive rhythm for my songs from scratch. I've got some time to play now so am gonna try out some of the suggestions in this thread.


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## Ashermusic

purple said:


> ?? Yes
> I've seen under 1 year olds who know how to say "mama" and some that don't... What's your point? They generally both figure it out eventually. And the one who figures it out later might even end up being a TV anchor some day. You'd be surprised at how much babies and children can learn in that time even if it isn't obvious on the surface.


One last try and then I am out. There is _nothing_ that a human being can do that some are not born with a better ability to do. It isn't a life sentence, work and study alter it, but there _is_ such a thing as inherent talents people are born with, and a natural feel for rhythm is one of them.


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## Jimmy Hellfire

I think the main thing here is to understand that any music essentially is first and foremost rhythm. Way before intervals, melodies etc. even become relevant, rhythm is already there and constitutes the minimum requirement for music. If it doesn't include the slightest idea of organized time, it's not music, it's just sound.

Nearly anything that makes sense inherently is rhythmic - movement, speech, music, bodily functions, time, etc. So I would start looking at it not as this "other thing" (especially as a singer or a melody instrument player), but the very thing that organizes basically everything we do. You'll notice that the most annoying or clumsy people have no rhythm in their speech, movement or thinking.

Even if you take a simple vocal melody - there's a rhythm to it, and what we can do is to think about things like: which words are sung loudly and firmly, and which ones are more soft? Which words or syllables are short and percussive, and which ones ring out? Where do I take a breath, where are the pauses and are there little things in there that fill the background space? That's already the basics of a percussive pattern.

Dancing to the music is actually a great idea. It outlines an even clearer connection music and notions of motion, space and weight. Honestly, intervals and vertical harmony are secondary, we just tend to think that it's all about that from a western point of view ...

On a more practical level - drum patterns are arrangements like anything else, so it might be difficult to "get" them in one fell swoop. Just like a complete musical arrangement, there's the low stuff that doesn't rumble all the time, but lays down the fundament, then you have the middle stuff the ear gravitates towards and which constitutes the main idea of the groove, then there's the high stuff that adds emphasis, and there's the small stuff that's ticking away in the back or fills the in-between space.

When you put all these figures together, you get a beat, but trying to look through it all at once might get confusing first. So I would start out by watching videos of percussion basics - drummer exercises and basic drum beats on the drum kit, then latin percussion, later african music and stuff like that. And try to recreate things like that with various sounds and samples. Just small exercises, nothing too complex. And try to "drum" them, not just sequence them. If you have a MIDI controller with drum pads, great. But actually before doing anything on the computer, I'd first stay away from that thing, it very much stands in the way of natural music understanding. Hit pillows and cardboard boxes, mugs that make different pitches when struck, stuff that makes a different sound when struck in the middle as opposed to hitting it on the side, etc.

When you got the basic functions down, you're able to hear a more interesting percussion arrangement and realize that it's all just a combination of several basic percussion principles. And then it's all about putting them together in a way that fits the rest of your music - which actually brings you to back to thinking about your melodies in a rhythmic way, like already mentioned above.


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## Rob

purple said:


> Either way. Learned skill.


After 45 years teaching music I have to admit that a good sense of rhythm is the hardest thing to acquire if you don't have it... I have tried every strategy and I'm a firm believer in our capacity to learn but rhythm must have some connections in the motor centers of the brain which are almost impossible to modify.


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## Zero&One

Interesting points from the master


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## tc9000

There's a point in (kit or hand) drumming where you can play 16ths reasonably fast by alternating right hand / left hand like this (using courier new here are the chars are all the same size):

EDIT: using a png as spaces dont render :-D







Once you have that shuffle feel down - you *feel* it and can play it with your hands, then you can probably drop an accent anywhere while playing 16ths alternating between the left and right hands... and at that magical point kit and hand drumming really opens up... at least it did for me.

Also - check out the flying hand percussion VST - I don't own it but something about it tickles my inner drummer 🙃


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## tc9000

tc9000 said:


> There's a point in (kit or hand) drumming where you can play 16ths reasonably fast by alternating right hand / left hand like this (using courier new here are the chars are all the same size):
> 
> EDIT: using a png as spaces dont render :-D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once you have that shuffle feel down - you *feel* it and can play it with your hands, then you can probably drop an accent anywhere while playing 16ths alternating between the left and right hands... and at that magical point kit and hand drumming really opens up... at least it did for me.
> 
> Also - check out the flying hand percussion VST - I don't own it but something about it tickles my inner drummer 🙃


Oh and yeah - you can def learn this on a djembe or anything TBH. One of the best percussionists I ever met learned all his chops playing on park benches!


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## Fenicks

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I think the main thing here is to understand that any music essentially is first and foremost rhythm. Way before intervals, melodies etc. even become relevant, rhythm is already there and constitutes the minimum requirement for music. If it doesn't include the slightest idea of organized time, it's not music, it's just sound.
> 
> Nearly anything that makes sense inherently is rhythmic - movement, speech, music, bodily functions, time, etc. So I would start looking at it not as this "other thing" (especially as a singer or a melody instrument player), but the very thing that organizes basically everything we do. You'll notice that the most annoying or clumsy people have no rhythm in their speech, movement or thinking.
> 
> Even if you take a simple vocal melody - there's a rhythm to it, and what we can do is to think about things like: which words are sung loudly and firmly, and which ones are more soft? Which words or syllables are short and percussive, and which ones ring out? Where do I take a breath, where are the pauses and are there little things in there that fill the background space? That's already the basics of a percussive pattern.
> 
> Dancing to the music is actually a great idea. It outlines an even clearer connection music and notions of motion, space and weight. Honestly, intervals and vertical harmony are secondary, we just tend to think that it's all about that from a western point of view ...
> 
> On a more practical level - drum patterns are arrangements like anything else, so it might be difficult to "get" them in one fell swoop. Just like a complete musical arrangement, there's the low stuff that doesn't rumble all the time, but lays down the fundament, then you have the middle stuff the ear gravitates towards and which constitutes the main idea of the groove, then there's the high stuff that adds emphasis, and there's the small stuff that's ticking away in the back or fills the in-between space.
> 
> When you put all these figures together, you get a beat, but trying to look through it all at once might get confusing first. So I would start out by watching videos of percussion basics - drummer exercises and basic drum beats on the drum kit, then latin percussion, later african music and stuff like that. And try to recreate things like that with various sounds and samples. Just small exercises, nothing too complex. And try to "drum" them, not just sequence them. If you have a MIDI controller with drum pads, great. But actually before doing anything on the computer, I'd first stay away from that thing, it very much stands in the way of natural music understanding. Hit pillows and cardboard boxes, mugs that make different pitches when struck, stuff that makes a different sound when struck in the middle as opposed to hitting it on the side, etc.
> 
> When you got the basic functions down, you're able to hear a more interesting percussion arrangement and realize that it's all just a combination of several basic percussion principles. And then it's all about putting them together in a way that fits the rest of your music - which actually brings you to back to thinking about your melodies in a rhythmic way, like already mentioned above.


This was an extremely thoughtful and helpful reply. Thank you!!


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## Technostica

Are you comfortable creating rhythms by themselves without any non percussive accompaniment?
If not, then why not focus on that first?
Because if you struggle with that I think it will be hard to add percussion to a piece.
Walk first and then run maybe!
Just a thought as it might not be helpful for everyone.
Coming at things from new angles can help.


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## el-bo

NekujaK said:


> I've played piano and guitar for decades, but never had any aptitude whatsoever for drums/percussion. It's purely a physical coordination thing - I can hear the beat/pattern/fill that I want in my head, but am completely inept at actually executing it.


'Tis a pretty curious thing! If you've been playing playing guitar and piano for decades then you already have the physical coordination, solid timing (presumably) and the limb independence necessary to play drums or percussion. And in the case of piano, you are only a few mechanical abstractions removed from hitting strings with hammers...which is percussive.

I wonder if writing out beats as piano music would be enough of a perspective shift to help perceive what you are doing as percussion.


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## NekujaK

el-bo said:


> 'Tis a pretty curious thing! If you've been playing playing guitar and piano for decades then you already have the physical coordination, solid timing (presumably) and the limb independence necessary to play drums or percussion. And in the case of piano, you are only a few mechanical abstractions removed from hitting strings with hammers...which is percussive.
> 
> I wonder if writing out beats as piano music would be enough of a perspective shift to help perceive what you are doing as percussion.


I can't explain why, but keeping time strumming a guitar and comping on piano, or playing lead/melody lines, is not problematic for me. But playing drums/percussion, especially fast parts on the fly, is a challenge - it seems like it requires much more physical coordination.

As long as I recognize my limitations, I can find ways to work around them


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## el-bo

NekujaK said:


> I can't explain why, but keeping time strumming a guitar and comping on piano, or playing lead/melody lines, is not problematic for me. But playing drums/percussion, especially fast parts on the fly, is a challenge - it seems like it requires much more physical coordination.
> 
> As long as I recognize my limitations, I can find ways to work around them


Not to deny your experience, but personally I found that my guitar and keyboard playing augments and reinforces my ability to finger-drum etc. As others have alluded to, much of our musicality is rhythmic in origin. You and many others have rhythm, but there seems to be some conceptual block when it comes to translating that core essence to playing percussion and/or drums. I'm not saying that one 'discipline' immediately and automatically translates to another i.e drums, however. Practice is necessary 

Anyway, there's no obligation to be any good with percussion. But if you ever decided you wanted to get into it, I reckon you're already closer than you think


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## Nick Batzdorf

Everything begins with the basic rock beat:

8th notes on closed hi-hat
bass drum on 1 and 3
snare on 2 and 4.

Listen to Billie Jean (Michael Jackson), for example.


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## Living Fossil

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Everything begins with the basic rock beat:


Couldn't agree more...


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## ReleaseCandidate

Time for an old joke (there aren't any drummers or bassists in the room?)

A guitarist has been searching for some gigs, but everybody needs a bassist. So he finally gave in and started to learn how to play bass. But he didn't succeed, no matter how hard he tried. So finally he went to a neurologist, who told him that he is so used to have 6 strings that he'd need to have 1/3 of his brain removed to be able to play bass. After some more time of not finding work he finally accepted the solution an went to the hospital. 
After the surgery he wakes up to a nervous neurologist: "I'm terribly sorry, but instead of removing 1/3 of your brain we removed 2/3!"
"Ah, OK. Where are my drum sticks?"

So, you know what to do ....


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## marclawsonmusic

"So many drummers, so little time."

- Author Unknown


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## Nick Batzdorf

^ Hey, that one's good!


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## Nick Batzdorf

You know the difference between a drummer and a savings bond, right?

The savings bond eventually matures and earns money.


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## AndyP

I love using my Roland TD kit for orchestral percussion. It's so much more intuitive than playing on keys. This thread reminds me to do it more often.


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## AndyP

By the way, besides the already mentioned recommendation to buy a djembe, I can also recommend to buy a simple drum controller that you can also play with sticks. This is super helpful to get the rhythm feeling.


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## Fenicks

I'm so happy to see this thread has devolved into drummer jokes.


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## Wally Garten

Fenicks said:


> Good idea. I will attempt to recreate some of my favourite percussion patterns as practice.


Yeah, I think this is a good idea.

Also, if you use Logic Pro X, I can heartily recommend the "Drummer" tracks, which uses some kind of crazy AI to generate pretty decent rhythm tracks from drum samples. What's really nice is that you can export the computer's rhythm track as a MIDI file, so then you can see what the "drummer" is actually doing, hit by hit, and take it apart or reconfigure it to your liking.


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## muratkayi

Hey, I just wanted to support the idea of dancing, moving to find a rhythm for a musical piece, because I was thinking of how Dave Grohl described that he wanted to write a song to get the European Foo Fighters Fans at concerts to jump along to the song (he was talking about how he always found that to be characteristic of shows in europe) and in order to write the guitar lick for that he jumped around the room to stay in that movement.

Watched this in a documentary about Foo Fighters and really loved how they cut to 40.000 people jumping to the song after that 😂


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