# Recording live Violin question about Mic Placement



## einei (Jul 8, 2015)

Hey guys, 

I want to record some violin tracks for a project I´m working on. I´m planning on recording myself a couple of times. This is not going to be blended with other violins from string libraries. I´m using the spitfire artisan cello for the cello part and want to play the violins live. 

I was wondering if you had any tips regarding the mic placement? Unfortunately I have to record them at home. When I place the mic close to the violin the sound tends to get screechy and hairy, when I place the mic a little further the sound of the room starts to really get strong and not very pleasant. 

I appreciate your help! 

N


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 8, 2015)

Hm, it's not gonna be easy. Especially when you're gonna record multiple violin tracks.

Give us a little more info, and I'm sure we can talk you through this.

1. What gear is available to you? Microphones are most important.
2. Size and shape of the room?
3. Can you use blankets or other kinds of fabrics for makeshift acoustic treatment?
4. What kind of quality do you expect from the result?

Can you post a snippet of a "more distant" recording? Just a few notes; that way we can hear the room.


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## Joram (Jul 8, 2015)

Critical distance is quite important: the smaller the room, the closer you need to position you microphones, otherwise the room sound will be too overwhelming.

I had very good results for solo violin with:
- a U87 about half a meter above the violist pointing at the violin plus a main pair of Schoeps mk2's a little further away in large room and concert hall.
- close miking in a medium room with a ribbon mic: RCA 44, Royer 121. But also good results with a U47 close to the violin. Choose a mic that does not sound too harsh - be careful with positioning (makes a lot of difference). Use an excellent reverb device to make the sound more natural.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Jul 8, 2015)

I think it depends on the kind of sound that you want. A lot of sample libraries mic the violin too close and they end up sounding more appropriate for folk music as a fiddle. If you want a classical sound you really need a lot of space. Try finding pictures of violin concerto recording session from the top record companies and you'll see how the mics are usually at least 2m way and fairly high up. With film music the violin tends to be a balance between the 2. The attempts that I've made have usually ended up with the folky sound or too much room sound and not the nice balance of distance while not having it roomy. I'd suggest finding a church space to rent. Where I live you can book the main room of a relatively large church (with nice and high ceilings) for an afternoon for <$100.


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## RiffWraith (Jul 8, 2015)

einei said:


> When I place the mic close to the violin the sound tends to get screechy and hairy, when I place the mic a little further the sound of the room starts to really get strong and not very pleasant.



What you are describing is the problem that almost everyone has when trying to record at home, and is indicative of a crappy room. Crappy for recording that is - not otherwise 

Joram is correct - distance is key, _but you need to start with a really good room._ Many people do not realize/understand how important the room is in a recording.

If you are stuck where you are and have no options, you could try throwing blankets over the walls to cut down on the reflections, and take some of the "boxiness" out of the room. From there, you need to experiment a bit with how far you are from the walls, and also with mic placement.

Furthermore: You need a good quality mic. Not an SM57, or SM7B, or some cheapo mic from radio shack with a 1/4 jack on the end. Joram gave you some very good suggestions. Think U87, U67, U47, C12, 414, KM83 - something of that quality. Mic pre is essential as well; not your M-Box, nor your Focusrite, nor your sound card, nor your little Mackie mixer - but a GOOD mic pre.

Remember - your recording is as good as the weakest link in your chain.

Cheers.


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## dgburns (Jul 8, 2015)

I prefer to use ribbon mics if in a small room,up close to the violin.If it's a large diaphragm mic,then put on the headphones and move the violin around the mic to try and get a good sound.Sometimes I find the mic actually pointed to the side of the violin,not facing the top/bridge gets a balance between the top and bottom plates and less bite.But it can get wierd if you move about when close mic'ing.Need to try and stay put and not move if close in when you find your spot.I've actually gotten a good warm tone by having the mic behind the violin as well,or pointing the violin at the mic,so the headstock is closest to the mic.It seems to be different sweet spots for different violins too.
I've not had good results pointing the mic directly at the bow/strings area unless you have a few feet of air to allow the sound to bloom out a bit.
Now for viola,I find I can get right up to the mic and have it facing the top where the bow and strings meet and can get away with it.But sometimes a bit of moving around works too.Sometimes the best place is a bit off to the side ,about 12 inches or so to the side so the mic points down 12 inches off center.It gets less shrill that way.
An old violn player by the name of Peter Dawson gave me these ideas,he basically said to me,just move around the mic while playing and find the spot that sounds good to you.It can take a bit of fiddlng about! (and if tracking a few times over,try different mic placements to get other tones.
have fun!


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## einei (Jul 9, 2015)

Hey guys,

thanks a lot for your replies!

My room is rectangular 6 by 3,50 meters. I have a rode NT2A mic that goes into a RME Babyface. Yes I could use some blankets.

Here is a snippet of me playing in that room at a distance please bare with my playing 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bzvctvsl2l29owp/Example_VIControl.mp3?dl=0

I definitely understand the importance of the room, unfortunately I'm too tight on a budget to rent a space. Also since I have no experience recording in a space such as a church I would be a little scared of messing up 

Gerhard how do you avoid that the violin sounds really far away if you record it that way?

dgburns riffwraith do you have any recommendations for ribbon mics and preapms? I will definitely play around more with the placement around the violin.

The thing is I'm not even trying to achieve a huge sound, I want it t be more intimate. As is said I'm using the artisan cello from spitfire, so I'm looking more for a "chamber sound" as opposed to "symphonic" if that makes sense?


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## RiffWraith (Jul 9, 2015)

Hey - that doesn't sound half-bad! I do hear the room as being an issue tho.

So, add some verb, some light compression, and EQ to take out some of the scratchiness, and you do indeed wind up with something useful:

http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/ein-ex.mp3

In terms of mic pre, it depends on your budget. Here are two good suggestions, but there are of course many more.

http://www.baeaudio.com/products/1073

http://www.martinsound.com/pd_m1so.htm


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## einei (Jul 9, 2015)

That is pretty cool! Do you mind sharing the eq settings? It's always something I struggle with... Also what reverb did you use? Thank you so much for your effort in helping me!!


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## RiffWraith (Jul 9, 2015)

einei said:


> That is pretty cool! Do you mind sharing the eq settings? It's always something I struggle with... Also what reverb did you use? Thank you so much for your effort in helping me!!



EQ - cant help you; not sure what I did... I was just moving stuff until it sounded right.

Verb is a 480L

Cheers.


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## dgburns (Jul 9, 2015)

eq-watch the 4kh range for harshness,might want to sweep a narrow q and look for any obvious jumps in the 4 to 8 k range(due to mic diaphragm ) nothing helps below 200 hz-while I've sometimes actually boosted there,and somewhere in the 800 range for body.Maybe lower or higher depending on the actual playing and tone you're after.It's not uncommon to try and pull down a few narrow tight bands in the upper range if stuff pops out due being close to mic.I've also pretty much always have a de-esser going on.I treat violin much like I treat voice in that respect.


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## Joram (Jul 10, 2015)

Your recording is quite useful. Not bad at all! However, you keep hearing the dimensions of your room. I also think that you can come a little closer to the mic

I eq-d the violin a little bit and added some Bricasti Concertgebouw reverb to your audiofile: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9la013nyb12pog4/violin vi-control.mp3?dl=0

I think the recording would benefit if you try to avoid reflections from the side walls and ceiling (these reflections determine the size of the room). You can keep the floor reflection (that's for distance to the listener). If you want to record an ensemble with 1 instrument, use different mics and different distances to the mic.

Have fun.


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## Beat Kaufmann (Jul 11, 2015)

einei said:


> Hey guys,
> My room is rectangular 6 by 3,50 meters. I have a rode NT2A mic that goes into a RME Babyface. Yes I could use some blankets.
> I definitely understand the importance of the room, unfortunately I'm too tight on a budget to rent a space. Also since I have no experience recording in a space such as a church I would be a little scared of messing up
> Gerhard how do you avoid that the violin sounds really far away if you record it that way?



Hello einei
First of all, your equipment is OK as long as you can't change the room there is no need to change anything.
1. If you have the possibility: Yes you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np-dyi0wWRQ (should hang up some blankets around you). This will remove the roomy sound.
2. Because all tones of a violin (also the overtones) only emit upwards you should place the NT2A 1m - 1.5m above the violin. Because there is the ceiling at home you can play on a chair for gaining some distance. For a more intimate sound you can go even closer. A disadvantage at home is that above the microphone you should have no reflecting surface. Unfortunately you have the ceiling...
Another blanket above the microphone?

Such a treatment will improve your violin sound a lot more than a better Mic-Preamp (RME is more than good for your NT2A) or an EQs as well. Both - a better preamp and an EQ- can not take away the room sound.

Of course it would be great you could record your violin in a biger room for example where the ceiling and the walls are far away. Further, if you want to optimize your microphone I would use a small-diaphragm microphone. It simply will be faster than the NT2A and therefore you get more brilliant results for a violin. See also: Image. 

An example of a Violin/Viola. The microphones have been placed 1.5m (OK for classical music) above the instruments... (I recorded them in a church 2014).



All the best
Beat


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## einei (Jul 12, 2015)

Man that Bricasti sounds amazing  

Beat, thanks for your post it's very informative, I'll definitely try the blanket thing. I might have a chance to get access to a church. Anything specific I should look out for?


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## Beat Kaufmann (Jul 12, 2015)

If you record the violin at home with blankets you can control all the whole sound (incl. reverb). If you decide to go to a church or another big room you should take into account that the room will add some reverb which is probably more the one you are looking for than the one from your living room.

*Anything specific I should look out for?...*

Yes, if possible try to record the natural reverb of the church for your violin as well. Well recorded the reverb is better than the one of Bricasti 
You should use two further room mics (Stereo)... you could rent them...?
I prepared this PDF! It shows all the facts...
Have fun and success!

Beat


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