# Need Help with building Orchestal Template



## bowserlm (Mar 15, 2007)

I am trying to put together an orchestral template, but only have 2GB of ram in my machine so I can't spare any ram anywhere. With all the instruments of the orchestra, and their appropriate articulations, I can easily use 100-150 patches, and that is if I'm skimping on some of the articulations.

What I have previously done was built my template, using 1 patch per midi channel, obivously with a max of 16 patches per instance of Kontakt. To get the amount of instruments I need, I need 10 instances of Kontakt. I found out that each instance of Kontakt, empty or not, takes up 90-100mb of ram, so those 10 instances instantly ate a 1GB of ram, leaving no room for actually loading samples. The way I actually had the samples loaded was having them in the Kontakt instances, but with all their samples purged, so they didn't take up any ram until I needed them. Obviously with only having a few hundred megabytes open for samples, I couldn't load very many.

It was suggested to me that I try using an instrument bank, and loading it full of samples so that I only need 1 or 2 Kontakt instances. This sounded like a great idea, until I found out that I can only use one articulation at a time, because I have to switch between patches using midi program change data. Does anyone know if it is possible to have several midi tracks assigned to the same channel, all with different progam numbers, so that I can trigger multiple articulations at the same time? I have to be able to stack articulations, that is why using the bank isn't working, plus I want to have a discreet midi track for each patch, so I can visualize what is going on, and so it's easier to edit.

Does anyone have any ideas for me? I have tried just forgoing the orchestal template, and loading instruments as I need them, but this has caused such a bottleneck in my workflow that I need to figure something else out. I know that all the people who are gunning Gigastudio can load tons of instruments and only need 1 Gigastudio running. How can we do something similiar with Kontakt!!


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## rJames (Mar 15, 2007)

bowserim, I've loaded up an entire orchestra on one computer. That's how I work. But I have 5G of ram in a single Mac G5 Dual 2g. Its a very old computer (in computer years every one year of life is equal to 30 human years) looking forward to Apples new operating system soon.?

If you are on a PC, then I don't know squat although I assume Kontakt operates the same.

If it is a fast CPU and you have fast drives (SATA), you should be alright.

The ram that Kontakt loads before it loads any real samples is for streaming. You can lower that number by going in to options from the front panel. Lower the amount of ram reserved for DFD streaming voices. I've got mine at 68M. So, I've lowered the footprint of each instance from 100 (I think that was your number) to 68. That's a start.

Then I've lowered my "per sample" load to 18k. "Override instruments preload size."

That will get you a few more instruments.

2G is too little memory. You operating system probably takes at least 1G. So,you are operating with less than 1G.

I have 5G but one application can only use 2G (somehow it has gone to 3G) so you really need at least 4G in the machine.

Then, when you get a lot of instruments playing at once, you will notice dropouts. That is when you need to buy another machine with at least 4G.

It is the reality. Most people run a few PCs. (and a lot of air conditioning)


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## bowserlm (Mar 15, 2007)

I'm on a laptop right now, with no ability to have more RAM or run multiple PCs (I'm studying abroad in Rome). I just want to come up with a memory-conscience way of having the orchestral template. There has to be a better way than wasting all that RAM by using up 10 (At least) instances of Kontakt. The people that have templates with Gigastudio only need one instance, they don't have a bunch of wasted RAM.


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## rJames (Mar 15, 2007)

the ram is not "wasted" it is used to stream in samples. GIGA has it set up in some fashion that is most likely the same.

IN order for the computer to stream out, it has to have ram to set the stream into before it sends all the streams out simultaneously.

Maybe you need an orchestra that does not use samples like Synful. Look for threads at VI regarding Synful. It is available and can play on a much leaner machine.

Don't expect to run a great set of orchestral samples out of a laptop with 1G. It won't happen with Kontakt or with GIGA.

One piano could easily take up all of your available ram.


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## FirmamentFX (Mar 17, 2007)

bowserlm @ Fri Mar 16 said:


> I am trying to put together an orchestral template, but only have 2GB of ram in my machine so I can't spare any ram anywhere. With all the instruments of the orchestra, and their appropriate articulations, I can easily use 100-150 patches, and that is if I'm skimping on some of the articulations.



Bowserlm - the way I get around this is to work on each instrument separately, and then render to audio.

My template has only a couple of instances of K2 running, but I load up multis as I work on each line.

For example, my Horizon Overdrive Guitar multi (which is actually 2 banks - Notes and FX, on 2 separate MIDI channels) has a RAM/DFD footprint of 1.2GB. I have to have all those articulations available, so I do the guitar line, and then render it to audio and archive the MIDI tracks. Then I can treat it within my DAW as a recorded "live" instrument and mix from there.

If I need to go back to change something, it is a simple matter of unmuting the MIDI channels and loading up the K2 multis again, editing, and rendering the new file to audio.

As far as giga goes - I've only ever had bad experiences. I won't touch it now. I'm even leery about GVI...

Incidentally, I am running a PC with 3GB RAM (soon to be 4, when I upgrade to XP Pro x64)

Cheers,

Martin


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## Frederick Russ (Mar 17, 2007)

bowserlm @ Thu Mar 15 said:


> I'm on a laptop right now, with no ability to have more RAM or run multiple PCs (I'm studying abroad in Rome). I just want to come up with a memory-conscience way of having the orchestral template. There has to be a better way than wasting all that RAM by using up 10 (At least) instances of Kontakt. The people that have templates with Gigastudio only need one instance, they don't have a bunch of wasted RAM.



With only a laptop your best bet if you're planning on having a portable writing rig to jot down ideas would be to stay with the libraries with the smaller footprint - ewqlso silver is what I would recommend. GPO isn't something I use but that may also be something to consider. If you're wanting to build a serious rig for writing however you're probably going to have to spring for the fastest desktop PC you can afford with at least one separate hard drive to stream samples. You're going to need lots of RAM - as much as you have room for. Most laptops have a single hard drive that spin at 5400 RPM which effectively reduces your instrument and voice count. You'll want dedicated sample hard drives that spin at least 7200 RPM - internal SATA preferably. Otherwise stick with the smaller footprint orchestral libraries - ewqlso silver, gpo, miroslav, etc. Hope this helps.


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## KevinKauai (Mar 26, 2007)

I mostly use EWQLSO/Gold XP Pro but NOT in the Komptakt player, but in Kontakt2 Instrument Banks instead. By using the instruments in K2, I have the ability to Purge unused notes/articulations, so when I'm RAM-squeezed, I start using K2's Purge of various sections. (I typically work with Brass, Woodwinds, Percussion and Strings as the four sections and render a whole section to audio to free RAM from time to time.)

For more info on K2's Instrument Banks, see this http://kevintweedy.net/K2T/K2_InstrumentBanks.htm (TUTORIAL).

i hope this helps ...  KevinKauai


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## rJames (Mar 26, 2007)

Thanks Kevin for briging this to my attention again. I looked at your tutorial and it is very clear.

I think I am going to see if I should switch to this method over the default keyswitches. It will enable so many more articulations, less of the ones I don't use and a fuller instance. 

Currentlly, I use at least 2 slots for each instrument because I use EWQLSO. Much better to have only one per instrument with no keyswitches mucking up the score.

I have a default template that has all the keyswitches and then I bring in specific arts when needed. Seems that I will be able to do the same with this method but I will be able to bring the new arts into the correct bank.


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## KevinKauai (Mar 26, 2007)

Hi, rJ - - 

I didn't mention it, but the other major POWER that I use in conjunction with Instrument Banks in Kontakt2 is Multis. For example, I construct a basic strings group of the five sections (1st vlns, 2nd, viola, celli and basses) as a Multi containing the five. Then, I'll have a basic Brass section of trumpets, horns, trombones and tuba. And a basic Percussion group of Timpani, snares, gong, cymbal, harp and -- finally -- a basic woods section of piccolo, flutes, oboes, clarinets, english horn, bassoon and contra bassoon.

Since I typically use two instances of K2 as a VSTi, I can then load 2 of these Multis into each instance (and still have slots left over). (I should point out that I also routinely work with Folders in Cubase SX3 which helps eliminate confusion for me as well.) In working on a particular project, then, I can add and delete articulations to any Instrument Bank quite easily and conveniently.

As I mentioned, I've completely stopped using the included EWQL Kompakt player -- mainly because it doesn't have any PURGE capability (and everything I do seems to get bigger and bigger!). Because the new releases of EWQL things are using their new PLAY home-grown player, I have no immediate plans to go in that direction and will re-assess my sample needs down the road in the Windows-64 realm.

i hope this helps ...  KevinKauai

The http://kevintweedy.net/TUTORIALS.htm (Complete Tutorial Index is here).


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## janila (Mar 26, 2007)

I have two 2 gig machines running extensive set of articulations from three different orchestral libraries, almost everything from EWQLSC close mics, most of StormDrum single hits, several instruments from RA, Drumkit from Hell Superior and more. This means that you can get very nice results with only one 2 gig machine. This is how.


Before loading the instruments:

Use Kontakt 2. Update everything.

Minimize the amount of RAM the system uses. You should get atleast 1,5 gigs of free RAM after the system and the sequencer is loaded. Use Task Manager and windows Services to keep system to the minimum. If you don't know how then this is the first thing to learn.

Think which instruments and patches you need in the template. Think what kind of music you are going to do. Split the libraries to atleast two 7200 RPM drives so that the typical load is shared between the drives. Strings and woodwinds on one drive and brass and percussion on another is a good starting point.

Use 12 MB of DFD streaming memory and 12 kB of instrument preload with the override. Most likely you'll have to play the busiest parts through after loading to avoid popping while you work.

Set 128 as the maximum voices per Kontakt instance. That's enough when you think how you split the instruments between the instances. Don't load all the staccatos in one instance.

Set Kontakt to 16 stereo outputs and set it as the default.


Loading the instruments:

Rename the MIDI channels and Kontakt outputs as you go. Usually you run out of MIDI channels per Kontakt instance before you run out of Kontakt outputs. Use the outputs so that you can mix creatively. Route several articulations to the same output or each articulation to a dedicated output when needed. Rename unused outputs to blank.

Don't use Round Robins. Use the TKT script.

Don't use release samples. Edit the envelopes and use a good convolution reverb.

Don't use sampled legatos. Use the SIPS script and overlapping notes. This can even sound better than sampled legato. Really.

Learn how to edit in Kontakt 2. Remove unused velocity layers, use wholetone sampling and so on. For example piano libraries are chromatic even if they don't need to be. In some cases just a couple samples per an octave can be sufficient. You can use TKT with wholetone sampling but I wouldn't go further than that.

Learn how to make custom keyswitches to minimize the use of MIDI channels. This makes your template easier to navigate and uses less Kontakt instances. It's rather easy to copy all the articulations to one instrument and set up the keyswitches. You can also set the keyswitches without copying all the articulations to one instrument but there are a couple of gimmics in working this way. Ask if you need to know.

Shorten envelope release times to cut down unnecessary polyphony. Many libraries use release times several seconds long for nothing. Some instruments need a long release to sound natural but most don't. Listen while you edit. A fast passage with a lot of notes and long envelope releases can use several hundred polyphony notes so this is really worthwhile.

After editing the envelope releases set the maximum polyphony per instrument in the Kontakt 2 main GUI. Set it low enough but reasonable. A harp or a piano will need more polyphony than a solo woodwind. Remember that modwheel crossfading instruments require more polyphony than velocity splitting instruments as all the velocity layers are played simultaneously. You still can and should use modwheel crossfading.

Keep Kontakt GUIs closed when you don't need them.

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That's all I can think right now but this should keep you busy for a while.  The bottom line is that you can go a lot further with K2 than you think beforehand.


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