# Discovery Starts Tomorrow



## robgb (May 21, 2020)

Got an email from Spitfire that Discover arrives in my inbox tomorrow. I'll be very curious to see what 200mb can do.

Will be doing a review, of course.


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## filipjonathan (May 21, 2020)

I got my copy today. Overall, nothing special. Some instruments sound rather nice, some are very disappointing. But for free, no complaining.


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## merty (May 21, 2020)

Downloading now, wasn't expecting this quick.


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## jaketanner (May 21, 2020)

filipjonathan said:


> I got my copy today. Overall, nothing special. Some instruments sound rather nice, some are very disappointing. But for free, no complaining.


Is there not a stand alone version of this?


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## filipjonathan (May 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Is there not a stand alone version of this?


Not sure I understand what you mean. I don't think Spitfire's player is standalone.


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## jaketanner (May 21, 2020)

filipjonathan said:


> Not sure I understand what you mean. I don't think Spitfire's player is standalone.


yeah that's what I meant. When I was downloading the Discover, it had two downloads...one said Discover, the other said PLUGIN...both the same size, so I assumed that it's also standalone.


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## filipjonathan (May 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> yeah that's what I meant. When I was downloading the Discover, it had two downloads...one said Discover, the other said PLUGIN...both the same size, so I assumed that it's also standalone.


Ah gotcha. Yeah, I don't see the standalone version anywhere.


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## merty (May 21, 2020)

Sort of reminded me of my college days with (early versions) of sibelius but of-course this is better  nice that it has reverb too.

From video's I noticed switching project between discovery to core resulted in a more "compressed" sound compared to making the project directly with core. I don't own core but after playing it a bit seems my impression might be correct. I don't expect them to make samples sound any better but addressing that would be nice.

If needed, I tested taming the high-mid.s with a multiband or spectral comp. (ozone, dseq etc.). Not prettier but sounded more balanced.


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## Leslie Fuller (May 21, 2020)

Was emailed yesterday saying mine would be here today, but still watching and waiting.


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## Reid Rosefelt (May 21, 2020)

Leslie Fuller said:


> Was emailed yesterday saying mine would be here today, but still watching and waiting.


Did you try the Spitfire downloader app?


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## h.s.j.e (May 21, 2020)

First impressions: obviously the entry-level edition, but it's really great for what it is. Huge thanks to Spitfire.


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## jaketanner (May 21, 2020)

filipjonathan said:


> Ah gotcha. Yeah, I don't see the standalone version anywhere.


damn...Even Synchron Series has stand alone...however, no multi MIDI, meaning I can't stack sounds in stand alone, OR within the DAW like you can in Kontakt...this is a huge drawback for those of us that like to check things out prior.


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## jaketanner (May 21, 2020)

Has anyone tried the Spiccato stings? They are very uneven in length. Violas seem shorter, violin 2 are short, violin 1 seem like staccato, and then within the same instrument, they are different length notes as well...can't do any type of ostinato this way...very strange. And why is is SOOOO wet...even more so than Air hall it seems.


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## jaketanner (May 21, 2020)

What I love, is the ability to click on a position of instruments based off seating...that's brilliant and a time saver.


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## axb312 (May 21, 2020)

Anyone know how to map volume to velocity instead of the modwheel?


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## robgb (May 21, 2020)

Guy Michelmore does a nice job with it.


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## Tim_Wells (May 21, 2020)

After I filled out their questionnaire, I never received any kind of confirmation email. I still haven't received anything from them.

Did you guys get any communication from Spitfire after filling out the questionnaire?


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## Leslie Fuller (May 21, 2020)

TigerTheFrog said:


> Did you try the Spitfire downloader app?



Oh yes!

Strange, but I’ve just has an email from Spitfire welcoming me, and introducing themselves! I’ve been following them for years, have all of the new LABs instruments, and lots of the old donation ones?


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## Scamper (May 21, 2020)

axb312 said:


> Anyone know how to map volume to velocity instead of the modwheel?


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## Reid Rosefelt (May 21, 2020)

What a great gift for any young composer starting out. 

What a great advertisement for the sound of BBCSO.

Nice one, Spitfire!


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## axb312 (May 21, 2020)

Scamper said:


>


Thanks!


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## José Herring (May 21, 2020)

robgb said:


> Got an email from Spitfire that Discover arrives in my inbox tomorrow. I'll be very curious to see what 200mb can do.
> 
> Will be doing a review, of course.


200mb can be killer. Some of the best mockups in the early days were done with a lot less. If I were a composer starting out with my first library I'd be over joyed by this. Really gracious of Spitfire to do this. It's kind of in EW tradition where they sooner or later price products so that everybody can play. I love it.


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## MartinH. (May 21, 2020)

I hear a lot of people talk about "free" or "gift", but you _can _actually pay for it. I wonder how many voluntarily take that route, given the free option, or how many think it's worth that price to them.
I'd be mildly curious to play around with it and test the spitfire player that way, but I doubt I'd properly use it for anything, given its limitations and the libraries I already have. I find it hard to justify 49,- Euro just to mess around with it for a bit, and I'd imagine many/most here feel that way.


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## dzilizzi (May 21, 2020)

And it gives you a discount on the full version and maybe the core as well?


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## José Herring (May 21, 2020)

I also think even at 200mb the tone of this library is fantastic.


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## JohnG (May 21, 2020)

As José pointed out, this actually sounds very good! Maybe as yet another colour? Certainly worth the price. Man, when I compare what we had in the olden days. Amazing.


Very true:
"It's not about having the right idea, it's about 'taste.'" -- Guy Michelmore


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## jaketanner (May 21, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> I hear a lot of people talk about "free" or "gift", but you _can _actually pay for it. I wonder how many voluntarily take that route, given the free option, or how many think it's worth that price to them.
> I'd be mildly curious to play around with it and test the spitfire player that way, but I doubt I'd properly use it for anything, given its limitations and the libraries I already have. I find it hard to justify 49,- Euro just to mess around with it for a bit, and I'd imagine many/most here feel that way.


It's very limited and really not worth the $49...however, if it's the ONLY library that someone has, it might be worth it...but if you already have great libraries, for $49, I doesn't offer anything at all really...and spiccatos are of different lengths too...not really an impressive prelude to the pro version...and yes, it's free, but I think SF did this as a way of creating a "demo" so that we get a taste of the library and buy the pro version or core...this is good marketing, but it's not the BBCSO's best foot forward. I would have rather seen ONE instrument, but killer...like what 8dio does with try packs, and get an actual sense of the instrument and potential, than a very scaled down version where you are still left to wonder if the full version is going to be any better.


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## Leslie Fuller (May 21, 2020)

No email from Spitfire, but just checked my account and BBCSO Discover is now there!


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## P3TAAL (May 21, 2020)

Check your spam folder!


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## Tim_Wells (May 21, 2020)

Tim_Wells said:


> After I filled out their questionnaire, I never received any kind of confirmation email. I still haven't received anything from them.
> 
> Did you guys get any communication from Spitfire after filling out the questionnaire?


Anyone?! (_it's so nice to feel invisible._...)


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## P3TAAL (May 21, 2020)

I'm pretty sure it said somthing straight after filling out the survey but not 100% sure. I just done it and forgot about it really


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## CatOrchestra (May 21, 2020)

Tim_Wells said:


> After I filled out their questionnaire, I never received any kind of confirmation email. I still haven't received anything from them.
> 
> Did you guys get any communication from Spitfire after filling out the questionnaire?



Same here : )


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## Sears Poncho (May 21, 2020)

Tim_Wells said:


> Anyone?!


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## dzilizzi (May 21, 2020)

I got no response that I remember. I just downloaded this and it sounds great for a very basic library. You could potentially write a score with this and use very little RAM for each instrument.


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## Leslie Fuller (May 21, 2020)

Tim_Wells said:


> Anyone?! (_it's so nice to feel invisible._...)



No, I never received any notification from Spitfire after completing the survey.


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## nolotrippen (May 21, 2020)

Got it, downloaded it, playing it in DP10. Not too shabby. Wish it was multitimbral and there was keyswitching (if there is, I can't find it).


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## jaketanner (May 21, 2020)

CatOrchestra said:


> Same here : )


I got a confirmation email about the survey, then yesterday got a reminder that today was going online, and this morning got my email with download instructions.


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## jaketanner (May 21, 2020)

I compared the a3 flutes to the a3 flutes in SStW...while not apples to apples, the sound of BBC is very warm in comparison, and much richer low end and not as strides of a top end...to be expected with the room differences. 

However, it's nice to know that the studio series came close...it wasn't bad, just different as it should be. I did find some weird sample noises in some intervals in the BBC however...also some usual Spitfire tuning issues in the strings...I get live players aren't perfect all the time, BUT...if the entire section is out of tune, I would seriously doubt that it would be left in the recording...but this is what happens when you have the whole section that is out of tune with samples...it's just recurring over and over. Pro players are not always out of tune...SCS is completely useless to me because of tuning issues, and that wasn't cheap. So again, if this Discover is any indication of the full BBC, its not for me. The sound is nice as a whole...but strings are the main feature of most libraries, and if that's not right, then the rest doesn't matter (to me at least).


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## Sears Poncho (May 21, 2020)

I think it's excellent. Violas sound great- big, mellow sound. Basses are good. I like the a3 oboe sound, will be useful for certain moods.

I just bought the Cinematic Percussion, this percussion will go right with it. Helpful since Studio Orch doesn't have any. Things like tubular bells and glock sound very nice. Celeste is nice and bell-like especially in the upper register. But IMO the violas are the stars. Put a first chair on 'em, ride the mod wheel and you'll have a nice viola section. Thanks Spitfire!



nolotrippen said:


> keyswitching (if there is, I can't find it).


Top right, below the red "tuba", that lil keyboard icon. Use that to shimmy the keyswitches up or down.


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## robgb (May 21, 2020)

Tim_Wells said:


> After I filled out their questionnaire, I never received any kind of confirmation email. I still haven't received anything from them.
> 
> Did you guys get any communication from Spitfire after filling out the questionnaire?


No. But when I went back to my account to try again, it said I had already filled out the questionnaire.


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## jaketanner (May 21, 2020)

Sears Poncho said:


> But IMO the violas are the stars


I felt the same..I was very surprised at how much better the violas sounded compared to the other strings. Such a shame they are not as consistent.


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## cuttime (May 21, 2020)

My account said that the order was processed today, but still no download link. I suspect they are rolling out the invites in a spare fashion in order to prevent server overloads. Perfectly reasonable.


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## Leslie Fuller (May 21, 2020)

Checked my emails again just now, and the Spitfire download email was there. Seems it arrived minutes after my post on this thread. I’ll download it in the morning.


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## filipjonathan (May 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> It's very limited and really not worth the $49...however, if it's the ONLY library that someone has, it might be worth it...but if you already have great libraries, for $49, I doesn't offer anything at all really...and spiccatos are of different lengths too...not really an impressive prelude to the pro version...and yes, it's free, but I think SF did this as a way of creating a "demo" so that we get a taste of the library and buy the pro version or core...this is good marketing, but it's not the BBCSO's best foot forward. I would have rather seen ONE instrument, but killer...like what 8dio does with try packs, and get an actual sense of the instrument and potential, than a very scaled down version where you are still left to wonder if the full version is going to be any better.


This...


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## synkrotron (May 21, 2020)

Sounds good to me, but WTF do I know?


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## KarlHeinz (May 21, 2020)

I am totally puzzled and dont found any manual, so I just ask in here if anybody found out or if it just a stupid question.

But the picture of the orchestral parts just cries for activating more then one section and it is possible to load more then one section but I did not find any way to activate more then one section at a time.

The walkthrough suggests that its not possible cause evry section was on another track. But if I could load more then one section why should I if I cannot activate them in one instance in a time. And for what should I need the picture with the sections ?


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## LamaRose (May 21, 2020)

Nothing that inspires, per se, in this FREE package, but more than enough solid patches to put together a good mockup, especially if one takes advantage of the FREE labs instruments. Two thumbs up.

And how wonderful and effortless the download was via their app... Discover was waiting for me... just hit a button and it was done. Now I just need a few juicy, prime discounts to really sink my teeth into.


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## jcrosby (May 21, 2020)

Still waiting on my link, but based on the video demo comparing between _Core_ it's quite amazing what they've managed to pull off in 200mb.

This is only slightly larger than old specialized orchestra "roms" you could buy for a Roland flagship machine. Slightly larger than the max amount of memory you had to work with on an EMU sampler, etc. While they were the champions of their day, frankly they sounded terrible in comparison for anything orchestral!

Is it super realistic? Surely not. But quite a feat at 200 MB.


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## Sears Poncho (May 21, 2020)

Did a lil string improv thingy. I think it sounds pretty damn good. I used 2nd fiddles instead of first. Not bad for free....


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## Saya (May 21, 2020)

Never mind problem resolved


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## szczaw (May 21, 2020)

The price is right.


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## robgb (May 21, 2020)

I've had a chance to play with it. While it's probably not something I'd use on a regular basis, I can see how young composers on a low or no-budget could get a lot of mileage out of this. Does it sound fantastic? No. Does it sound pretty damn good? Yes. But I have to say that I don't think enough of it to bother doing a full video review.

For free, it's great. But rather than spend $49 on it, I'd go an extra hundred and get Amadeus Symphonic Orchestra, which is infinitely better.


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## Pincel (May 21, 2020)

I got it today and played with it for a bit. It's mostly OK, pretty much what I expected, altough I was pleasantly surprised with the tone of some instruments like the violas and some of the percussion. Woodwinds are passable at times, but the brass is kinda meh, which is ok for what it is.

In the grand scheme of things there's really nothing here for anyone who's already served with other orchestral libraries, there's just not enough depth to stand on it's own. However, I can see it maybe being useful for some kind of layering, and for anyone just starting out, this thing can be of absolutely tremendous value if one doesn't have funds or a powerful computer.

In short, like pretty much everyone has said before, it's really wonderful for a free product, but don't expect much more than that.


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## jaketanner (May 21, 2020)

Seems that Spitfire has done more harm than good with this Discover release. If developers can take away one thing from any of this, is that ALWAYS put your best foot forward OR make it absolutely clear that the sound of the free library is no where near the sound of the full version. Not talking about feature set or articulations...but sound.


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Not talking about feature set or articulations...but sound.


I don't own it yet, but so far everything I'm hearing sounds good.

It'd be cool to a/b it with some of my other stuff to get a sense of what BBCSO would sound like.


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## Ashermusic (May 21, 2020)

synkrotron said:


> Sounds good to me, but WTF do I know?



You know what you like, and that’s all that matters, not what a bunch of (mostly) guys on a forum say.

i received it today, tomorrow I will try it.


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## Buddy (May 21, 2020)

Is no one going to mention how ridiculously convenient this interface is? The entire orchestra right in front of you, click the section and it instantly loads the all the articulations for that instrument! 

I don't know how I'm going to go back to the dark age nightmare of Kontakt after this.


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## jaketanner (May 21, 2020)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> It'd be cool to a/b it with some of my other stuff to get a sense of what BBCSO would sound like


I only a/b's the flutes against Studio Series Pro...not exactly fair, but BBC did sound much warmer...but you can also hear the recording techniques are basically Spitfire. Both will work, but BBC did sound better within the piece than Studio Winds did. So at least, their flute sounds nice to me...well, one articulation anyway.. LOL


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## jaketanner (May 21, 2020)

Buddy said:


> Is no one going to mention how ridiculously convenient this interface is? The entire orchestra right in front of you, click the section and it instantly loads the all the articulations for that instrument!


My favorite feature...brilliant. But the multitimbral use of Kontakt is killer...this interface lacks routing...even the full version from what I hear can't be layered.


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## purple (May 21, 2020)

I wonder if there is an educational discount for the free version? So they actually pay us!


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## darcvision (May 22, 2020)

just got it, its really good freebies for sketching. i wish this library has legato, and midi routing (similiar like kontakt).


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## peladio (May 22, 2020)

robgb said:


> For free, it's great. But rather than spend $49 on it, I'd go an extra hundred and get Amadeus Symphonic Orchestra, which is infinitely better.



Or add a few bucks more and get Hollywood Orchestra Gold when on sale which is infinitely better than both and even better than full BBC..


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## arjanm (May 22, 2020)

KarlHeinz said:


> I am totally puzzled and dont found any manual



Manuals for all three BBC Symphony products are here:





BBC Symphony Orchestra Manuals







www.spitfireaudio.com


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## ptram (May 22, 2020)

Does anybody knows if there is a way to use UACC messages to select techniques? I would think this is the basis of the whole idea (create a sequence everywhere, and preserve the same selection massages between editions).

Paolo


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## KarlHeinz (May 22, 2020)

> Manuals for all three BBC Symphony products are here



Thanks arjanm 

As my question is not mentioned there I am sure it is just not possible. But still I think that would be great, maybe in an update.....


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## thereus (May 22, 2020)

Nobody is going to pay £49 for a library with a free button next to it. The £49 price tag is a mechanism to make you value it more than something they were just giving away. Let's keep in mind that they are not giving it away. We've all answered a detailed market data survey in response. The information they now have about the market is invaluable to them, and also an interesting insight, I think, into what they are really doing. No other library developer has so sophisticated a marketing strategy. Spitfire have clear sales funnels for different market segments. Now they know more about which segment you might be in, what each of their segments does and buys etc. Spitfire is a marketing-led company, as focussed on the numbers as they are on the sounds. That is why they provoke so much discomfort on here, so often, but it's also why they are, sooner or later, going to clean up in this space.


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## robgb (May 22, 2020)

peladio said:


> Or add a few bucks more and get Hollywood Orchestra Gold when on sale which is infinitely better than both and even better than full BBC..


I'll have to disagree. I don't care for HO.


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## tomosane (May 22, 2020)

purple said:


> I wonder if there is an educational discount for the free version? So they actually pay us!



Essentially yes. It's $0 to begin with, and you automatically get a 30% discount, so the new price $0. So in essence they pay you $0 - $0 = $0.


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## MartinH. (May 22, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> but I think SF did this as a way of creating a "demo" so that we get a taste of the library and buy the pro version or core...



I don't think that's it. I think it was more like an industry shattering "everything is about to change" crowning achievement of their careers, that they'll be remembering on their deathbeds. About empowering aspiring composers with the tone of the legendary BBC symphony orchestra... or something like that...




I remembered that I have a pathetically weak netbook with 4gb RAM in a drawer somewhere and I wonder if this could be used to make orchestral music on it. Maybe I'll fill out the survey just to try that. Since the consensus here seems to be it's not worth the full price, and the download isn't big, that slightly eases my conscience about choosing not to pay for it.


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## musicisum (May 22, 2020)

I wonder how these 200 MB are organized... Like if it's really just one dynamic layer / 1 RR per section. Can't get it for free and spending this rather generous price of 49$ is not a priority at the moment.


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## Fa (May 22, 2020)

I got my copy today. As an almost-free, toy-orchestra it's quite ok, and beginners may have fun with an inexpensive but complete and nice sounding tool.

As a way to introduce BBCSO to advanced users by the way I have several doubts, since this seems to show more product limitations and fault than potential:
- samples are so limited that dynamics and phrasing are totally out of scope.
- several patches are bad sounding: it's hard to figure out if it's due to excessive and arbitrary downscaling and reprogramming for the hyper-small version or can persist in the larger official version as well.
- the interface of the plugin is really user friendly, but so basic and so naive that, again, you can't figure out if some obviously requested advanced features will be available or not in higher versions.

I suppose that to know more about the real potential of the plugin you have to watch video tutorial and/or reading documents/manuals. Then this discovery sounds like a lost opportunity for "discovery of BBCSO" and more really a toy orchestra for beginners "discovery of cheap MIDI orchestration".


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## ThomasJ.Curran (May 22, 2020)

Got my copy yesterday too. Its not too bad for a freebie, but I think the lack of dynamic layers and RR's make it kind of unusable for anything serious.


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## robgb (May 22, 2020)

Buddy said:


> I don't know how I'm going to go back to the dark age nightmare of Kontakt after this


Surely you're joking.


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## Tim_Wells (May 22, 2020)

Sears Poncho said:


> Did a lil string improv thingy. I think it sounds pretty damn good. I used 2nd fiddles instead of first. Not bad for free....


Sounds good!


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## gohrev (May 22, 2020)

I have to say, this is really a lovely little library - indeed, great for sketching.
The light percussions, like celeste and glockenspiel, have a very nice sound.


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## robgb (May 22, 2020)

musicisum said:


> Can't get it for free


Why can't you get it for free? All you have to do is fill out a marketing questionnaire.


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## robgb (May 22, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Seems that Spitfire has done more harm than good with this Discover release. If developers can take away one thing from any of this, is that ALWAYS put your best foot forward OR make it absolutely clear that the sound of the free library is no where near the sound of the full version. Not talking about feature set or articulations...but sound.


I can see your point. I won't go near Aria Sounds because of a Cello I bought on deep discount that was, in my opinion, piss poor. But I'm not sure you can say that about this library. For it's size it sounds pretty damn good and I can see a lot of people doing a lot of great things with it.

I had a second go with it this morning and while it does have its quirks (too much vibrato on the 1st violins and some random release triggers), its far better than anything else you're likely to get for free. So I think the psychology will be, "Hey, if they can do this for free, their paid products must be amazing."

That said, I'm not sure their motive was marketing. Yes, they want people to buy into their ecosphere, but I think they truly wanted to give something to young composers on a budget. And lack of legato and round robins aside, a way to experience higher quality at a lower price.


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## Lionel Schmitt (May 22, 2020)

I actually don't think it's even worth 49. (got it free via survey)

Same sample stretched across 6 keys I think, for harp it even seems to be one for a whole octave.

Sound round robins on any of the shorts.

No dynamic layers. A single one for each section with some random dynamic variance per key range sometimes.

If one is a total beginner and doesn't have any orchestral sounds (or particular sections) it can be useful.
But get it free via survey then.. 
It's too limited for any money to flow IMO, rather get a stellar meal and good drink instead. :D


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## jaketanner (May 22, 2020)

robgb said:


> I can see your point. I won't go near Aria Sounds because of a Cello I bought on deep discount that was, in my opinion, piss poor. But I'm not sure you can say that about this library. For it's size it sounds pretty damn good and I can see a lot of people doing a lot of great things with it.
> 
> I had a second go with it this morning and while it does have its quirks (too much vibrato on the 1st violins and some random release triggers), its far better than anything else you're likely to get for free. So I think the psychology will be, "Hey, if they can do this for free, their paid products must be amazing."
> 
> That said, I'm not sure their motive was marketing. Yes, they want people to buy into their ecosphere, but I think they truly wanted to give something to young composers on a budget. And lack of legato and round robins aside, a way to experience higher quality at a lower price.


I agree with you that this library is useable...but I still maintain that SF knew for sure that this was going to be used as a demo...if WE all thought this, they sure did, and perhaps a better explanation to those of us who are using this Discover version as a "calling card" for the BBC pro would have saved a lot of disgruntled posts...LOL

I did give it a solid run this morning with all string sections playing a part from a current composition and the sound is actually very good. But without true legato, dynamics and vibrato control it’s hard to say it’s going to work for me.

I’m on the fence and wish Spitfire would chime in here with some more details. Even as to HOW they got all this info into such a footprint without sacrificing sound...seems like something had to be compromised.


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## Dex (May 22, 2020)

thereus said:


> Nobody is going to pay £49 for a library with a free button next to it. The £49 price tag is a mechanism to make you value it more than something they were just giving away. Let's keep in mind that they are not giving it away. We've all answered a detailed market data survey in response. The information they now have about the market is invaluable to them, and also an interesting insight, I think, into what they are really doing. No other library developer has so sophisticated a marketing strategy. Spitfire have clear sales funnels for different market segments. Now they know more about which segment you might be in, what each of their segments does and buys etc. Spitfire is a marketing-led company, as focussed on the numbers as they are on the sounds. That is why they provoke so much discomfort on here, so often, but it's also why they are, sooner or later, going to clean up in this space.


I’d be fine with that, as long as they can actually deliver what I actually want. It’s nice to have an opportunity to tell them exactly what I want. I did so, and now we’ll see if they can deliver.
Total $ I’ve spent on Spitfire products so far: 0.


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## robgb (May 22, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> I did give it a solid run this morning with all string sections playing a part from a current composition and the sound is actually very good. But without true legato, dynamics and vibrato control it’s hard to say it’s going to work for me.


I can see using it for layering, and little enhancements here and there, but when I have so many other great libraries to choose from (especially the sample modeling libraries and SStS), it's not particularly useful for me, but then it's not really target at someone like me anyway.

I think if SF intended to do a demo, they would do an actual demo. They certainly have that capability with the new player. They could offer the pro package and put a 48-hour timer on it. Sure, somebody would probably crack it, but that's the price of doing business in the world of software.


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## Sears Poncho (May 22, 2020)

I find it to be a fun little diversion in Covidtime. Is it just me, or are the second violins good while the firsts are kindy crappy? Too much boom and room in the firsts. 2nds seem to have some detail and music in them... especially the shorts.


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## jaketanner (May 22, 2020)

Sears Poncho said:


> I find it to be a fun little diversion in Covidtime. Is it just me, or are the second violins good while the firsts are kindy crappy? Too much boom and room in the firsts. 2nds seem to have some detail and music in them... especially the shorts.


You are not wrong...inconsistent. As a whole, they're good sound wise, but listening individually, not so great...I think this is just a bad representation of the library...I would like to think that the core and pro versions are far better sounding. The Cello shorts sound bad to me.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (May 22, 2020)

robgb said:


> I think if SF intended to do a demo, they would do an actual demo. They certainly have that capability with the new player.


I'm not sure that they "certainly" have the ability to make a demo mode. Have they indicated that they can?


----------



## method1 (May 22, 2020)

Disclaimer: I have a bit of a chequered history with SF having bought a handful of their products that were then discontinued and abandoned.. so its credit to their marketing department that I was considering BBCSO.

But Discovery if anything has put me off. To echo what some others have said, strange tuning issues in the strings from note to note, odd looping on some of the notes, inconsistencies in quality between sections and the simplistic player just add up to a rather poor advertisement for the full package.

I think SF's strengths lie in their experimental and "out of the box" stuff, some of those products are excellent.


----------



## MartinH. (May 22, 2020)

Tough crowd...




jaketanner said:


> You are not wrong...inconsistent. As a whole, they're good sound wise, but listening individually, not so great...I think this is just a bad representation of the library...I would like to think that the core and pro versions are far better sounding. The Cello shorts sound bad to me.



Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the short samples be the same as the ones in the full version on that same RR, mic mix and dynamic layer? It might be stretched accross more keys or be compressed with lossy compression, but shouldn't it otherwise sound the same? It's still the same samples I thought?!


----------



## peladio (May 22, 2020)

robgb said:


> I'll have to disagree. I don't care for HO.



Fair enough, HO isn't everyone's cup of tea..but you're disagreeing on HO vs BBC..right? Because Amadeus and HO aren't comparable qualitywise..

Amadeus is in the same league as Garritan and Miroslav Philharmonik and maybe VSL Special Edition..cool little sketching library..but it's better than Discovery for sure, I deleted it not long after demoing


----------



## peladio (May 22, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> I don't think that's it. I think it was more like an industry shattering "everything is about to change" crowning achievement of their careers, that they'll be remembering on their deathbeds. About empowering aspiring composers with the tone of the legendary BBC symphony orchestra... or something like that...



Cmon..you aren't that naive..



thereus said:


> Nobody is going to pay £49 for a library with a free button next to it. The £49 price tag is a mechanism to make you value it more than something they were just giving away. Let's keep in mind that they are not giving it away. We've all answered a detailed market data survey in response. The information they now have about the market is invaluable to them, and also an interesting insight, I think, into what they are really doing. No other library developer has so sophisticated a marketing strategy. Spitfire have clear sales funnels for different market segments. Now they know more about which segment you might be in, what each of their segments does and buys etc. Spitfire is a marketing-led company, as focussed on the numbers as they are on the sounds. That is why they provoke so much discomfort on here, so often, but it's also why they are, sooner or later, going to clean up in this space.



Bingo..


----------



## andrzejmakal (May 22, 2020)

Strings are disappointing. Is it me or Timpani hits - decay completely out of tune?

cheers


----------



## Jacob Fanto (May 22, 2020)

I really don't see why there's so much hate. It's free and aimed towards beginners, not experienced veterans in the world of orchestral sampling. Imagine the perspective of a student who is into composing but doesn't have the money or rig for full blown out libraries.


----------



## Michael Antrum (May 22, 2020)

Jacob Fanto said:


> I really don't see why there's so much hate. It's free and aimed towards beginners, not experienced veterans in the world of orchestral sampling. Imagine the perspective of a student who is into composing but doesn't have the money or rig for full blown out libraries.



It's a Spitfire product. 

They could invent a cure for cancer and some people would complain they were putting doctors out of work. 

Sure Spitfire aren't perfect, but neither is anyone else for that matter.


----------



## MarcelM (May 22, 2020)

well, people expected a bit more after all that announcement hype i guess and if discover gives a small sneak peak into bbcso core then its not the best one i fear.

okay as a freebie but not worth 49 bucks imho.


----------



## Mike Fox (May 22, 2020)

What's funny is that I read this thread title, and thought to myself, "Must be something from Spitfire".


----------



## purple (May 22, 2020)

thereus said:


> Nobody is going to pay £49 for a library with a free button next to it. The £49 price tag is a mechanism to make you value it more than something they were just giving away. Let's keep in mind that they are not giving it away. We've all answered a detailed market data survey in response. The information they now have about the market is invaluable to them, and also an interesting insight, I think, into what they are really doing. No other library developer has so sophisticated a marketing strategy. Spitfire have clear sales funnels for different market segments. Now they know more about which segment you might be in, what each of their segments does and buys etc. Spitfire is a marketing-led company, as focussed on the numbers as they are on the sounds. That is why they provoke so much discomfort on here, so often, but it's also why they are, sooner or later, going to clean up in this space.


Also, a lot of people who have had discover and enjoyed it will default to spitfire, especially to upgrades of BBCSO. If you're just starting out, and someone offers a whole free orchestra, you take it, and then their brand is in your head. When it comes time to invest, you are going to default to the company you know. Believe it or not, most people buying these collections probably don't scour these forums for comparisons of dozens of libraries like all of us do.


----------



## jaketanner (May 22, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Tough crowd...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Won’t sound the same if it’s just one dynamic layer or if it’s been processed to fit into a smaller footprint


----------



## Rory (May 22, 2020)

Jacob Fanto said:


> I really don't see why there's so much hate. It's free and aimed towards beginners, not experienced veterans in the world of orchestral sampling. Imagine the perspective of a student who is into composing but doesn't have the money or rig for full blown out libraries.



This is just a group of people who say that they are experienced, and who are good at holding up their noses, bitching about a $49/free library that they won’t use in the first place. In the course of the thread, some of them have done some pretty amusing skating. What I don’t understand is where they find the time to post their complaints over and over, although I guess skating does have its demands.

Does it matter? This thread has 2,000 views. YouTube videos alone on Discover have 260,000 views, and some of the music written with it in fact sounds pretty good.


----------



## jaketanner (May 22, 2020)

Jacob Fanto said:


> I really don't see why there's so much hate. It's free and aimed towards beginners, not experienced veterans in the world of orchestral sampling. Imagine the perspective of a student who is into composing but doesn't have the money or rig for full blown out libraries.


The complaints are because people that have tons of other libraries are using Discover as a means of testing out the full version. I know I am, so regardless if it’s for beginners, we should still get a sense of the library’s sound. This is a poor representation and turning people off rather than on. Also, what is a student gonna do with one dynamic layer across the board? I mean it’s a free demo and I’m convinced of it. They can market this all they want to students but they know that no one is gonna pay for this when there’s a free option. It’s not like they gave us the best of each section...I mean they could have done a $99 version and included more features. That’s also a beginner price right?


----------



## MartinH. (May 22, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Won’t sound the same if it’s just one dynamic layer or if it’s been processed to fit into a smaller footprint



Why would the one dynamic layer in Discovery sound different than the sample of the same dynamic layer in core or pro? And even if the samples were compressed with a lossy codec, I can't hear the difference between a .wav and a good .mp3 file. Do you think they trimmed release tails shorter to make the samples take up less space? What else could they have done?

Can someone who has core or pro compare a note between those and discovery? Please make sure to catch the same RR sample and dynamic layer, on the note where the sample isn't transposed in either of the libraries.




peladio said:


> Cmon..you aren't that naive..



I'm well aware how sales funnels and marketing work. I guess I need to lay on the sarcasm a little thicker next time...

But at the same time... I'm not cynical enough to say this must for sure be _just _a strategically planned marketing effort. I do believe they think of this to be a really important step for education and collaboration. And from that perspective reading through this thread probably is quite... depressing for them.

I'm just as annoyed as some others by the 100+ page hype threads for every single announcement of the next "game changing" thing, but releasing an optionally _free _library that isn't aimed at the VI:C crowd isn't something that deserves the amount of bitching that they're getting here in my humble opinion.


----------



## José Herring (May 22, 2020)

Rory said:


> This is just a group of people who say that they are experienced, and who are good at holding up their noses, bitching about a $49/free library that they won’t use in the first place. In the course of the thread, some of them have done some pretty amusing skating. What I don’t understand is where they find the time to post their complaints over and over, although I guess skating does have its demands.
> 
> Does it matter? This thread has 2,000 views. YouTube videos alone on Discover have 260,000 views, and some of the music written with it in fact sounds pretty good.


Exactly.

In the 80's the government had a surplus of cheese and they handed out free cheese. That's when I realized a bit of human nature. Some people want their free cheese then they bitch while they eat it.

So if people want better cheese, buy the core cheese or the pro cheese and quit whining.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt (May 22, 2020)

Jacob Fanto said:


> I really don't see why there's so much hate. It's free and aimed towards beginners, not experienced veterans in the world of orchestral sampling. Imagine the perspective of a student who is into composing but doesn't have the money or rig for full blown out libraries.


I haven't seen any "hate" (that word is being used so lightly these days.. are people getting more and more sensitive?) only reasoned criticism. Surely, one comment calling the 1st Vlns crappy may be harsh, but it was also said why, which makes it criticism and it's still 1 comment.

I'm rather impressed how much praise there is. It's not really free, it's 49$. Or you pay with your time and fill the survey. For a beginner getting it for semi-free like this it's certainly valuable. But the price tag isn't justified by the content (no RR, no dynamics yet uncontrollable dynamic variance per key, 1 sample per 6 keys or 12 for the harp, other technical issues that were mentioned etc) and people have that in mind when criticizing of course.

I actually think it's good if SF sees it's not necessarily received too well since they want to introduce people to the bigger product. And that's not a good introduction.



Michael Antrum said:


> It's a Spitfire product.
> 
> They could invent a cure for cancer and some people would complain they were putting doctors out of work.
> 
> Sure Spitfire aren't perfect, but neither is anyone else for that matter.


The same logic you could use to shut down positive opinions. 

"It's Spitfire, of course people love it"


----------



## robgb (May 22, 2020)

peladio said:


> Fair enough, HO isn't everyone's cup of tea..but you're disagreeing on HO vs BBC..right? Because Amadeus and HO aren't comparable qualitywise..
> 
> Amadeus is in the same league as Garritan and Miroslav Philharmonik and maybe VSL Special Edition..cool little sketching library..but it's better than Discovery for sure, I deleted it not long after demoing


I would say that Amadeus is a couple steps above Garritan, a giant leap above Miroslav, and slightly below VSL SE (I own all of them). I think that Amadeus is one of those libraries that people underestimate and, in the right hands, can do wonderful things. Despite the lack of true legato, it's expertly programmed, and most of the audio is excellent.

HO is a great library. I just don't like the way it's programmed and I don't like Play.


----------



## Sears Poncho (May 22, 2020)

DarkestShadow said:


> Surely, one comment calling the 1st Vlns crappy may be harsh,


I own the entire Spitfire Studio Orch Pro, LCO, Solo Strings etc. I'm entitled to call them crappy.  Bonus: I've been a pro symphony violinist for 30+ years, I have experience to call them crappy.

They are. There's waaaaay too much low end. The low register- sounds like violas. Or celli. For the spiccati, the D that's a ninth above middle C: up until then, the notes are very short. But that D is longish. Try it= the lower notes are short, noisy (in a good way) and sound crisp. Get to that D and it makes no sense. Different type of stroke and then they use the same sample etc. If I didn't know any better I'd think that the first 1.5 octaves were one stroke then the rest another. 

Check this out. It's first fiddles in the low register. Everybody close their eyes before listening: sounds like celli! At one point, I hit an open G and all of a sudden "Hey, wait... that open G sounds like violins" but then it goes back to sounding like violas or celli. Sorry Spitfire, but you've earned the "crappy" moniker for this.....


----------



## Rory (May 22, 2020)

Sears Poncho said:


> I own the entire Spitfire Studio Orch Pro, LCO, Solo Strings etc. I'm entitled to call them crappy.  Bonus: I've been a pro symphony violinist for 30+ years, I have experience to call them crappy.
> 
> They are. There's waaaaay too much low end. The low register- sounds like violas. Or celli. For the spiccati, the D that's a ninth above middle C: up until then, the notes are very short. But that D is longish. Try it= the lower notes are short, noisy (in a good way) and sound crisp. Get to that D and it makes no sense. Different type of stroke and then they use the same sample etc. If I didn't know any better I'd think that the first 1.5 octaves were one stroke then the rest another.
> 
> Check this out. It's first fiddles in the low register. Everybody close their eyes before listening: sounds like celli! At one point, I hit an open G and all of a sudden "Hey, wait... that open G sounds like violins" but then it goes back to sounding like violas or celli. Sorry Spitfire, but you've earned the "crappy" moniker for this.....



Your post #39:



> I think it's excellent. Violas sound great- big, mellow sound. Basses are good. I like the a3 oboe sound, will be useful for certain moods.
> 
> I just bought the Cinematic Percussion, this percussion will go right with it. Helpful since Studio Orch doesn't have any. Things like tubular bells and glock sound very nice. Celeste is nice and bell-like especially in the upper register. But IMO the violas are the stars. Put a first chair on 'em, ride the mod wheel and you'll have a nice viola section. Thanks Spitfire!



Your post #49:



> Did a lil string improv thingy. I think it sounds pretty damn good. I used 2nd fiddles instead of first. Not bad for free….



Link for anyone who wants to hear what he says is his “pretty damn good” result from Discover: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/discovery-starts-tomorrow.93604/post-4563067


Your post #82:



> I find it to be a fun little diversion in Covidtime. Is it just me, or are the second violins good while the firsts are kindy crappy? Too much boom and room in the firsts. 2nds seem to have some detail and music in them... especially the shorts.


----------



## Sears Poncho (May 22, 2020)

Rory said:


> Your post #39:


Right. I stand by it. I also said:


Sears Poncho said:


> I used 2nd fiddles instead of first.


See?

Did I say anything inaccurate? Did you listen to my "violin/cello" post right above? Do you think I'm correct? Because... damn, that's a horrible fiddle sound.

I like Spitfire. I put their kids through school.  I'm allowed to be honest while praising them.


----------



## Rory (May 22, 2020)

Sears Poncho said:


> Right. I stand by it. I also said:
> 
> See?
> 
> ...



I'm not going to mince words with you. Your latest post reflects none of the sentiment in your posts from yesterday and amounts to a heated, broadside attack, ending with "Sorry Spitfire, but you've earned the "crappy" moniker for this....." Whether you intend it or not, that is fairly read as an attack on the entire library.

Meanwhile, you're the only person in this thread who posted an actual piece from Discover, and you're right, it comes off quite well, sufficiently well that none of the entrenched "critics" here, none of whom having posted a piece of their own, have so much as mentioned it. Instead, some of them are posting attack after attack, saying the same things over and over and over. One might be forgiven for suspecting that this has less to do with reasoned, constructive criticism than with tallying debating points.

Any any event, this thread is now only 257,000 views short of views about this library on YouTube.


----------



## Sears Poncho (May 22, 2020)

Rory said:


> I'm not going to mince words with you.


I'm not going to mince words with you either. I have no fucking idea what you're talking about. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch. I'm guessing you don't either. I couldn't give a fuck about "tallying debating points??" I don't even know what that means.

It's a fun little free library from Spitire, a company I support with hard earned cash made from the music biz. It also has a crappy first fiddle section, which I mentioned from the getgo in a roundabout way by pointing out that I bypassed using them. WTF is your beef man? I said it from the beginning.

THis is a way for us to judge the whole product. I have no idea if the flaws in the firsts are in the Core or Pro. If they are, this is a concern for all. If you're just looking for an argument, I suggest listening to the clip or just checking out the Discover first fiddles. If you can't hear it, there's really no point in going on, is there? Do you think they sound good? Did you notice that the spiccati go for 1.5 octaves and completely change? Again, if you didn't, you come off as just someone who wants an argument. Rebel without a clue.


----------



## Rory (May 22, 2020)

Following up on some posts by @MartinH. ...

Martin has raised some interesting questions about Discover and Core/Pro, some of which have pretty black and white answers. I expect to have Discover on May 30 and will make a decision about Core by May 31, the deadline for the current price. The first thing that I'm going to do is open some of the WAVE files in iZotope RX and find out what's happening with the samples.

If anyone is already in a position to do this kind of analysis, I share, and would like to second, Martin's interest.


----------



## cuttime (May 22, 2020)

Better Free effort:









Palette - Primary Colors - Red Room Audio


A FREE taste of Palette! This small sampling of our larger Palette Orchestral Series features strings, woodwinds and brass ensembles recorded using our True Ensemble Recording technique, with one microphone position and an abbreviated set of articulations. Now updated to v1.2!



redroomaudio.com


----------



## Rory (May 22, 2020)

cuttime said:


> Better Free effort:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For me, and I suspect others, yours is an interesting post. I have Palette Primary Colors myself. When you say that it is "better" than Discover, is that based on experience with both? If you've used both, why in your experience is Palette Primary Colors better? If one wants to go up a notch to paid, how do the Palette upgrades compare to Spitfire's in terms of price and quality?


----------



## jaketanner (May 22, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Do you think they trimmed release tails shorter to make the samples take up less space? What else could they have done?


Not sure...and I actually did a test of sorts. I brought up a few of SF libraries and tried to match the dynamic by playing very hard for shorts, but I purged the library first and purged all articulations except the longs...mb wise, they ranged from 10 to 50...did this with winds, strings and brass...so not sure how they got it to around 200mbs including the convolution and all else that's going on in the player, but I would have to say that it is possible...even without any compression...but definitely not easy.



MartinH. said:


> Why would the one dynamic layer in Discovery sound different than the sample of the same dynamic layer in core or pro?


Because without the other dynamics there and RRs and whatever else they got rid of, we are not hearing the full potential...Just lowering the dynamics of the longs in Discover is not really dynamics..it's volume. So the sound ramping up would be totally different...and this is where it is misleading us. Unless someone from Spitfire audio officially comes here and says that they are pound for pound exact samples, I find it hard to believe. I mean the sound is okay...but somehow feel it should be better based off of some demos I've heard. I want to know...if I bought the pro version...is it going to be immensely better sounding?


----------



## Rory (May 22, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Not sure...
> 
> Unless someone from Spitfire audio officially comes here and says that they are pound for pound exact samples, I find it hard to believe.



"Not sure", as in "I have no idea", characterises your entire post. Martin is raising specific questions to which there are answers quite a bit better than "Not sure". This ain't rocket science. Bring the samples into iZotope RX and you'll know not only the sonic characteristics of the samples, but about how they compare between BBC versions.

See my post four up.


----------



## cuttime (May 22, 2020)

Rory said:


> For me, and I suspect others, yours is an interesting post. I have Palette Primary Colors myself. When you say that it is "better" than Discover, is that based on experience with both? If you've used both, why in your experience is Palette Primary Colors better? If one wants to go up a notch to paid, how do the Palette upgrades compare to Spitfire's in terms of price and quality?


I think it is better than the other free libraries. Everything else is a matter of opinion. The RedRoom sounds are dryer and cleaner with less bizarre looping. A lot more expression parameters.


----------



## Rory (May 22, 2020)

cuttime said:


> I think it is better than the free libraries. Everything else is a matter of opinion.



Now I've got it. You're saying that Pallete's paid libraries, which start at US$200 and go up from there, are better than Discover, which not only doesn't cost $200 and up, but is free.

I asked you a question that didn't get answered. Have you actually tried Discover against a Palette library and, if so, which Palette library and why is that Palette library "better"?

Let me ask a blunt question. Do you even have a copy of Discover, and if so, what have you tested it against?

As I understand it, your position about Palette vs BBC apart from Discover is that it's just a matter of personal opinion. Right?


----------



## cuttime (May 22, 2020)

Have you tried Discover against a Palette library and said:


> I always compare the strings as an acid test. I think the Palette free is much better than the Discover strings.


----------



## NYC Composer (May 22, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> It's a Spitfire product.
> 
> They could invent a cure for cancer and some people would complain they were putting doctors out of work.
> 
> Sure Spitfire aren't perfect, but neither is anyone else for that matter.


It’s Spitfire-they could release “String Cheese”, a library played by 20 violins with their strings replaced by strands of cheddar, and some people would say “brilliant” and “take my wallet!” though one small lad might tug on his mom’s pantsuit and say “but mummy, it doesn’t make any sound.” “Hush now darling...it’s SPITFIRE!”

(See how easy it is to have another POV?)


----------



## Ashermusic (May 22, 2020)

Well I just spent a couple of hours building a Logic Pro X BBCO Discover template with Articulation ID sets with it, and as usual, my opinions are different than most people.

I think the strings sound quite nice, and I don't dislike the brass nearly as much as many others seem to.

What I do dislike are the woodwinds, do _not_ like the tone at _all_. Percussion sounds pretty lackluster.

Overall, for free, it's fine. For $49, ok, but I would say save the money and buy the Amadeus Orchestra for $149. Way more complete and most of the instruments sound as good or better.


----------



## Michael Antrum (May 22, 2020)

NYC Composer said:


> It’s Spitfire-they could release “String Cheese”, a library played by 20 violins with their strings replaced by strands of cheddar, and some people would say “brilliant” and “take my wallet!” though one small lad might tug on his mom’s pantsuit and say “but mummy, it doesn’t make any sound.” “Hush now darling...it’s SPITFIRE!”
> 
> (See how easy it is to have another POV?)




Yes, but nearly every Spitfire thread has this much acrimony, far more than any other developer, and your post just goes to prove my point.

I don’t know why they seem to always attract such controversy. Project Sam release a free orchestra which is very limited in Scope (but still I think it’s very cool of them) and every one is falling over themselves to say how great it is (and it it is).

Spirfire release a much more comprehensive free orchestra and are roundly criticised for it.

As I say, they just seem to be a favourite punchbag and I’m not quite sure what they have done to deserve it. Obviously theyre not everyone’s cup of tea, I’m not the biggest fan of ‘Press a key texture libraries’ but don’t feel the need to complain about it.

Anyway, I’m not getting bent out of shape over this, I just think its a little odd, that’s all.


----------



## Rory (May 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Well I just spent a couple of hours building a Logic Pro X template with Articulation ID sets with it, and as usual, my opinions are different than most people.
> 
> I think the strings sound quite nice, and I don't dislike the brass nearly as much as many others seem to.
> 
> ...



Hi Asher,

Very helpful. Basically, you're saying "pay more". Assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that you have experience with BBC Core, would you go with Amadeus at US$150 or BBC Core at the "before June 1" price of $350, if one can afford both?


----------



## NYC Composer (May 22, 2020)

@Michael Antrum 

Great, let me explain it to you.

1. When you do extensive, intensive marketing that promises everything but free gold coins and you do it for quite a while, there’s bound to be various reactions. Everything is magnified, all things good and all things bad. You develop a lot of fans, you develop a number of detractors. Maybe you weren’t here at the beginning of Spitfire’s marketing blitz?

2. Spitfire charged premium prices and made premium products, but a fair amount of them had sloppy editing, and they were a lot more interested in creating new revenue streams than they were in cleaning up some of their pricey product line. I love SCS, but even after some extensive cleanup from the Sable days, I promise I can play you examples from the current product that will make you cringe. So there’s that.

3. It’s the Internet!

Please don’t cry for Spitfire. They are absolutely killing it.

P.S.-my post proves two things (neither of which you got, apparently) :

1. There are usually at least two sides to most things.
2. I have an excellent sense of humor. Why, I’m laughing with me as I type!


----------



## Rory (May 22, 2020)

NYC Composer said:


> @Michael Antrum
> 
> Great, let me explain it to you.
> 
> ...



You and the other people talking like you, and writing post after post repeating the same things over and over, are mostly ensuring that nobody interested in Discover will pay any attention to you.

Hey, you only have 257,000 views to go to match YouTube views on Discover.


----------



## NYC Composer (May 22, 2020)

Rory said:


> You and the other people talking like you, and writing post after post saying the same things over and over, are also ensuring that nobody interested in Discover will pay any attention to you.
> 
> Hey, you only have 257,000 views to go to match YouTube views on Discover.


That will simply devastate me, with one codicil-

There is no one else that talks like me. You are not worthy.

Btw, try to keep your facts straight-I said nothing about Discover-I don’t own it (though the link is sitting in my mailbox as we speak.) I think it’s hard to argue with the price. I think a zillion people will download it, as well they should.

Oh, and that’s the second time I’ve seen you mention the YouTube views, Rory the new member. Are you a troll?


----------



## Rory (May 22, 2020)

NYC Composer said:


> That will simply devastate me, with one codicil-
> 
> There is no one else that talks like me. You are not worthy.
> 
> ...



I also live in New York. I've mentioned YouTube views because I have a sense of perspective, which I think is lacking here.

I don't see any constructive purpose in responding to the rest of your comments.


----------



## NYC Composer (May 22, 2020)

No anger here, dude, I love this stuff! Larry’s the name, analyzing subjective differences is my game. 

I’ve lived in Manhattan since 1978. I’ve never seen it like this:ghost town. 9/11, horrible though it was, was a time for people to be with each other. This is just weird.

Dunno what your sense of perspective is, but I have lots more than 275,000 YouTube views. Like, wow! 

Nothing I said about Spitfire is unfair or will prevent a single person from d’ling Discover. Not even myself. Deep breaths. Ommmmm.

😉


----------



## Jaap (May 22, 2020)

KarlHeinz said:


> Thanks arjanm
> 
> As my question is not mentioned there I am sure it is just not possible. But still I think that would be great, maybe in an update.....



No it is not possible to activate more then one section (in none of the versions). In other words, the BBC Spitfire Player, for all versions does not support multiple instruments at once, which is a big pitty. Hopefully they change that in the future. This is actually for all their libraries using their custom player.


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## jaketanner (May 22, 2020)

NYC Composer said:


> I love SCS, but even after some extensive cleanup from the Sable days, I promise I can play you examples from the current product that will make you cringe.


I am still pissed about SCS...never used it once in two years. And it took me all of 5 minutes to find flaws just noodling around, so what kind of testing could they have done?


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## CT (May 22, 2020)

I think my favorite thing about Spitfire is how effortlessly their every move causes some people on this forum to reveal themselves in fascinating, often utterly bizarre ways. What a show!


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

Rory said:


> "Not sure", as in "I have no idea", characterises your entire post. Martin is raising specific questions to which there are answers quite a bit better than "Not sure". This ain't rocket science. Bring the samples into iZotope RX and you'll know not only the sonic characteristics of the samples, but about how they compare between BBC versions.
> 
> See my post four up.


You took things out of context. No one is sure about anything for this product and that's the issue right? Of course I don't know, no one does...purely speculation based off what people hear and simple RAM tests I did with other SF libraries...plus it either sounds good or doesn't. I then have to go based off what I hear in the Discover and think about if I want to invest in more SF libraries. THIS is what the majority of us are doing with Discover. I highly doubt that all of us here are looking at Discover as their next library...it's a demo.

Yes it's free, and I could care less one way or another...because it's not about a bad free library, it's about a bad first foot forward...let me rephrase, a disappointing first foot forward for those who have followed SF's crazy marketing about BBC since the start...the hype was way overblown. And the more frustrating part is that I really like the sound of most of the instruments, but with tuning issues and some inconsistencies in the shorts, I can't jump in...not until I know for sure those issues don't plague the pro version.

I personally have been on the fence about BBC for a while otherwise I wouldn't be this disappointed..I have expensive SF libraries that are just sitting in the drive, I don't need there to be yet another, so caution kicked in.

In order for this whole concept to really work as intended, every aspect and every instrument needs to be near perfect..it's pointless to get BBCSO and then still use other libraries..it's meant as a one stop shop...use the sound of the BBC. The all BBC demos I've heard truly seals this concept for me...the cohesion is far better than what you get when combining libraries, but if there are instruments that fall short, then it's not worth getting. So this too...I am not sure.

I am still holding out though. 

Do you have the library?


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## gpax (May 23, 2020)

miket said:


> I think my favorite thing about Spitfire is how effortlessly their every move causes some people on this forum to reveal themselves in fascinating, often utterly bizarre ways. What a show!


I was just about to post similar thoughts, specifically, why some are so invested in trying to fix each and every move that Spitfire makes. There’s a point where the post count by “the usual suspects” starts to become absurd, particularly when a $49 product triggers issues for some spanning a few years.


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## NYC Composer (May 23, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> I am still pissed about SCS...never used it once in two years. And it took me all of 5 minutes to find flaws just noodling around, so what kind of testing could they have done?


My opinion, you paid your money, there are great things there. You might have to re-write a few notes, but you can get a lot out of it. The ensemble patch has some of my favorite shorts, for example


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## MartinH. (May 23, 2020)

Palette Primary Colors is great for what it is. Another wonderful gift. But it's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. PPC only has ensembles, not individual sections, only strings/brass/wood and no percussion, it requires full Kontakt, which is inherently anti-beginner-friendly, PPC has dynamic layers and in total is about 1.2GB of samples - that's roughly 6 times the size of Discover. It's much more of a demo for the full product than BBC Discover, and much less a "starting point" for a beginner than BBC Discover. I really don't think Discover is intended to be a demo for "us".

I have Metropolis Ark 1 and NI SSC, it's quite unlikely I'd use Discover on my main computer or buy Core/Pro for it. But if Discover is the first orchestral library I can get to run on my 4GB RAM netbook, I'll gladly take it for what it is. 



jaketanner said:


> Because without the other dynamics there and RRs and whatever else they got rid of, we are not hearing the full potential...Just lowering the dynamics of the longs in Discover is not really dynamics..it's volume. So the sound ramping up would be totally different...and this is where it is misleading us.


Of course I agree on that, but that wasn't what I was talking about. I do understand that there's no way the library can sound as good as core or pro when _playing music_. What I meant is that I see no reason why a _single short articulation sample_ on the same RR, same dynamic, same key that triggers the non-transposed sample in both libraries, same mic mix, would sound any different. For it to sound different, they would have had to make a clear decision of "Alright, let's go in there and make the samples for BBC Discover slightly more processed than in Core or Pro" or something like that. And I see no reason to do that. It defies the purpose of what they set out to do, to make it easy to just switch out the libraries for the higher or lower tier versions. I guess if Core and Pro are set up to crossfade dynamic layers on most velocity or modwheel positions, then it's possible that for Discover they baked the two dynamic layers into a single sample and then just scaled the volume on that. But that should be easy enough to find out with RX or similar tools, right?


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## robgb (May 23, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> As I say, they just seem to be a favourite punchbag and I’m not quite sure what they have done to deserve it.


I think a lot of people are annoyed by their aggressive, overly hyped marketing that always teases life-changing libraries that, while often excellent, don't quite live up to the tease. 

That said, I appreciate what they've done with Discover and think all the bitching and moaning about a giveaway is pretty silly.


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## Alex Fraser (May 23, 2020)

Rory said:


> Following up on some posts by @MartinH.
> The first thing that I'm going to do is open some of the WAVE files in iZotope RX and find out what's happening with the samples.
> 
> If anyone is already in a position to do this kind of analysis, I share, and would like to second, Martin's interest.


I remember the good ‘ol days when we brought sample libraries to make music with.


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## Ashermusic (May 23, 2020)

Rory said:


> Hi Asher,
> 
> Very helpful. Basically, you're saying "pay more". Assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that you have experience with BBC Core, would you go with Amadeus at US$150 or BBC Core at the "before June 1" price of $350, if one can afford both?



Hard to say, I do not have any experience with either BBCO Core or Pro. We all hear things differently. On another forum someone described the woodwinds as delightful, so there you go.

And I am not a fan of either knee jerk bashing or fanboyism. I Think Spitfire did a nice thing here, for whatever reasons, and I wish I liked Discover more, but I don’t.


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## musicisum (May 23, 2020)

robgb said:


> Why can't you get it for free? All you have to do is fill out a marketing questionnaire.


Well I didn't look much further than what was being said here on VI, which was that you'd have to be a student or somehow prove you have limited financial resources. By looking directly at the website I see: 

"BBC Symphony Orchestra Discover out of your budget?

Log in (or create a new account), fill out our questionnaire, and we'll send you a FREE download after 14 days. Alternatively, you can buy and download now."

So I assume I would have to prove in that questionnaire that 49$ are out of my budget, which in all honesty are not.


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## MartinH. (May 23, 2020)

musicisum said:


> So I assume I would have to prove in that questionnaire that 49$ are out of my budget, which in all honesty are not.



I filled it out, you don't have to prove anything. There are some questions about what level you are on and what your goals with making music are etc., but overall I thought it's not nearly as in-depth as I had expected. Definitely doesn't look like it's intended make a decision on whether or not to send you that download link. Imagine the complaints if they decided to only give it to some of the people, and the amount of work that would take...


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

NYC Composer said:


> My opinion, you paid your money, there are great things there. You might have to re-write a few notes, but you can get a lot out of it. The ensemble patch has some of my favorite shorts, for example


Yeah I try. Time and time again...but sooner or later I’ll run into an interval that just sounds bad or some noise that makes the ostinato annoying every time it repeats. And yes, the GUI is actually very customizable that if o truly wanted to, I probably can find ways around it...but it’s a $699 library and these little things should have been addressed in an update. I just now registered to Christian’s SCS walkthrough and I can’t get the same sound he has nor the playability. Ever since the last update I think my SCS has gone south. Perhaps I need to reinstall the library. But I will keep trying and one will come into use.


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## peladio (May 23, 2020)

NYC Composer said:


> It’s Spitfire-they could release “String Cheese”, a library played by 20 violins with their strings replaced by strands of cheddar, and some people would say “brilliant” and “take my wallet!” though one small lad might tug on his mom’s pantsuit and say “but mummy, it doesn’t make any sound.” “Hush now darling...it’s SPITFIRE!”
> 
> (See how easy it is to have another POV?)



Exactly this..reminds me of Marvel movies really..and I own most of their libraries. Most of them are good and I use them daily in my work but they aren't be-all and end-all and this forum is more often than not looking like Spitfire forum..any attempt to criticize is shut down immediately by some of their hard core fans..and I'm not talking about Commercial announcements thread, that's not ok..constructive criticism is a good thing and echo chambers are not..

I find it hard to understand why are some people surprised that their clickbaity and abrasive marketing annoy some people and why some prefer Alex Wallbank's or Cinesamples approach..

I do wish that other hard working developers that don't receive 2 percent of attention Spitfire do would receive some..


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## sostenuto (May 23, 2020)

FYI ..... Weekly PluginGuru ( John Lehmkuhl ) YouTube Livestream Today (Saturday @ Noon USA PDT) will feature work with BBC Discover and UNIFY. Global audience, heavy Europe, live Chat is good to follow.

Here's a quote from this morning e-mail: We will look at making Orchestral patches with the incredible $50 Spitfire Audio BBC Discover Orchestra. I will share a FREE LINK during the Livestream to download 5 UNIFY Patches that will BLOW YOU AWAY if you own both Unify and this PlugIn from Spitfire Audio. That's all I'm saying - you'll have to see + hear it to believe it!


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## Alex Fraser (May 23, 2020)

peladio said:


> Exactly this..reminds me of Marvel movies really..and I own most of their libraries. Most of them are good and I use them daily in my work but they aren't be-all and end-all and this forum is more often than not looking like Spitfire forum..any attempt to criticize is shut down immediately by some of their hard core fans..and I'm not talking about Commercial announcements thread, that's not ok..constructive criticism is a good thing and echo chambers are not..
> 
> I find it hard to understand why are some people surprised that their clickbaity and abrasive marketing annoy some people and why some prefer Alex Wallbank's or Cinesamples approach..
> 
> I do wish that other hard working developers that don't receive 2 percent of attention Spitfire do would receive some..


Thing is, the marketing is neither “clickbaity” or “abrasive.” It’s just hugely effective.


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 23, 2020)

sostenuto said:


> I will share a FREE LINK during the Livestream to download 5 UNIFY Patches that will BLOW YOU AWAY


Forget the patches. I'm willing to bet the this guru would have some _graphic design_ advice that will BLOW ME AWAY.


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## CT (May 23, 2020)

peladio said:


> I find it hard to understand why are some people surprised that their clickbaity and abrasive marketing annoy some people



I don't think it's hard to understand why their marketing isn't for everyone. Rather it's the seemingly endless harping on it, often by the same people, every... single... time... that tends to make these threads almost unreadable.

Of course, I'm not helping. You mentioned the attention that they get here... I'm convinced that if not for the people who complain about them (and those who complain about that), it wouldn't seem like the forum occasionally becomes all Spitfire all the time.

I believe we could all stand to worry about Spitfire's marketing a lot less, to be tempted into forum tribalism a lot less, and to instead put to use the stuff that Spitfire and all developers provide us with, to do something that's actually worthwhile. Sadly, I don't feel confident enough to hold my breath waiting for this to happen.


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## Cheezus (May 23, 2020)

I initially assumed this was kind of a "try before you buy" type scheme but after using it for five minutes I uninstalled. It's plainly obvious I'm not the target audience for this.

Seems like they're trying to lure in people who have never used or even looked at an orchestral library before by presenting a free demo as a $50 value product (which it's frankly not). This might compel some currently jobless home producers to dip their toes in the water and expand SA's audience while creating a strong mental association between Spitfire and "orchestral" samples. Also like others said it gives them valuable market data with the questionnaire. Bonus points for introducing people to Spitfire's in-house software rather than Kontakt.


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

miket said:


> I don't think it's hard to understand why their marketing isn't for everyone


Although I think they learned from last time, and only gave us a week to think about the "huge" announcement...if they would just stop doing that, I think all this can be avoided...it's because what they announce never really lives up to the hype, and that pisses people off. Doesn't matter if it's Spitfire or a new Coke formula...if it's not all that it's is marketed to be, that leaves a sour taste in people's mouths.


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## CT (May 23, 2020)

....

I'll take my own advice. What more can be said?


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

Cheezus said:


> I initially assumed this was kind of a "try before you buy"


It absolutely is just that. They probably can't come right tout and offer it as a "demo" without some back story...otherwise they would not have given it away for free...they could have simply made a $99 version that was more useful...


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## Alex Fraser (May 23, 2020)

Oh, it’s worth $49 for sure. A 200mb svelte ninja library for adding orchestral sounds to other musical styles? Perfect. Honesty, VIC has such a one track mind sometimes.


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 23, 2020)

I'm feeling pretty positive about Discover. There's some nice sounds, some fun stuff to play with, and maybe I'll actually get a bit of use out of it. If not, no big deal, it's not like it takes up a lot of space.

The way I organize instruments in my DAW, I can just type in something like "trom" and all of my trombones show up, roughly in descending order of how useful they are. So it's super easy, while writing, to just pull up different options and try them out quickly. So I'll just add Discovery to that, and maybe some time down the road when I'm picking out instruments, Discovery will come in handy. I've gotten use out of other freebies this way, like Carpenter Trombone, or even the Alpine stuff.

I can also see this being a nice sketching tool. And I can also see this as a way of demoing BBC SO.

Plus it's perfectly timed with Logic's new autosampler and Peter Schwartz's legato-izer script to make a hacked legato version. Life is good and it keeps getting better.


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## Michel Simons (May 23, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Although I think they learned from last time, and only gave us a week to think about the "huge" announcement...if they would just stop doing that, I think all this can be avoided...it's because what they announce never really lives up to the hype, and that pisses people off. Doesn't matter if it's Spitfire or a new Coke formula...if it's not all that it's is marketed to be, that leaves a sour taste in people's mouths.



But wouldn't you expect that people learn to take those huge announcements with more than a grain of salt after a while? It's not like there aren't more important things in life to get worked up about.


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## robgb (May 23, 2020)

musicisum said:


> Well I didn't look much further than what was being said here on VI, which was that you'd have to be a student or somehow prove you have limited financial resources. By looking directly at the website I see:
> 
> "BBC Symphony Orchestra Discover out of your budget?
> 
> ...


You don't have to prove anything. It's basically a marketing questionnaire.


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## NYC Composer (May 23, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> Thing is, the marketing is neither “clickbaity” or “abrasive.” It’s just hugely effective.


You could add “in my opinion.” Or not.


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## peladio (May 25, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> Thing is, the marketing is neither “clickbaity” or “abrasive.” It’s just hugely effective.



Yeah thanks for proving my point..


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## Alex Fraser (May 25, 2020)

peladio said:


> Yeah thanks for proving my point..


How?


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## PaulBrimstone (May 25, 2020)

Sears Poncho said:


> I like Spitfire. I put their kids through school.


And that right there, @Sears Poncho, sums it up for so many of us, the Spitfire penniless.


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## jbuhler (May 26, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Yeah I try. Time and time again...but sooner or later I’ll run into an interval that just sounds bad or some noise that makes the ostinato annoying every time it repeats. And yes, the GUI is actually very customizable that if o truly wanted to, I probably can find ways around it...but it’s a $699 library and these little things should have been addressed in an update. I just now registered to Christian’s SCS walkthrough and I can’t get the same sound he has nor the playability. Ever since the last update I think my SCS has gone south. Perhaps I need to reinstall the library. But I will keep trying and one will come into use.


SCS did have some issue with the legato script in one of the recent updates but I think that would have been after you bought your copy. It acted very unpredictably, sometimes wreaking havoc with a line, sometimes it was just fine. The current version is working well for me. As I've said before, I've not encountered the tuning issues you have on a regular basis, and I use SCS all the time. Recently I've been using it even more heavily than usual and I'm not even encountering the issues I've had in the past with the second violins and violas. Maybe I've just subconsciously learned to compose around those limitations.... In any case I haven't done a side by side test in a while, but I was able to match Christian's sound to my satisfaction in the past. I've certainly not been surprised by the sound of the library in any serious way...


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## MartinH. (Jun 5, 2020)

Are the 14 days up already? Didn't feel like it, but I've received my free BBC Discover today. I installed it on my netbook, but Reaper does not show me the UI of the plugin. I can click Reaper's button to show me sliders for all the automatable values instead, but I don't know which one of them selects the section you want to load. Can someone with reaper and BBC Discover maybe tell me which of these can be used to select a different section? Or is it just not possible without the UI?

Fun fact, you can still see sliders for different microphones there that aren't included in Discover. I wonder if there is a setting that can be controlled that way that isn't exposed in the UI. Obviously not the mic mixes but maybe something else?

Edit: I had to change windows 7 desktop theme settings to make the UI appear. It does seem to be the only way to select the sections via the spitfire player UI.


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## Ruffian Price (Jun 5, 2020)

The mic sliders are for Discover/Pro compatibility, so you can share projects and not lose settings.


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## MartinH. (Jun 5, 2020)

Ruffian Price said:


> The mic sliders are for Discover/Pro compatibility, so you can share projects and not lose settings.



Ah, that makes sense.


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## MartinH. (Jun 6, 2020)

I played around a bit with BBC Discover on my netbook now. That PC is too weak to handle a full orchestral template with Discover, but it can handle enough instances to do some worthwhile composition practice. I think I'd enjoy taking that along with me on a vacation or similar. I consider that a win. Thanks Spitfire! 

Sound-wise I think this is an excellent learning tool. My impression is that when you know what you're doing in terms of composition and orchestration (which I don't), then you can make this tiny library sound pretty good. But you also have no room to hide behind samples that are impressive on their own (like a Metropolis Ark or Albion), it's not an "instant gratification library". It puts the full burden on the composer and I felt like it creates a kind of feedback loop where you compose a bit, listen, and if it still sounds bad you still have more work to do on the composition/orchestration/dynamics. You're forced to carefully craft CC1 automation for everything. I think something like this can be very educational. In a way I think it's a ballsy move to prioritize the value the library has for education (making it a free complete orchestra) over the value it has as a "demo" for the two bigger versions of BBC SO (e.g. a fully featured single section with legato).


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## Ashermusic (Jun 6, 2020)

It’s growing on me.


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