# 'The Ugly Truth of How Movie Scores Are Made'



## toomanynotes (Oct 5, 2022)

“I can *COUNT THE NUMBER* of mainstream Hollywood composers that *I KNOW* write all their music themselves *ON ONE HAND.*”
Well, it was never a suprise, I wonder how many of you write for a 'Hollywood (lol) Composer' (lol)???

Article below for those working their ass off for a 'Hollywood (lol) Composer' (lol) - Who can blame them? Who in their sick talented mind can be slave for an unlocked (shite) picture? It's a repulsive thought, pick the phone up and call your student assistants who'd happily lick the greasy dirt off your rather thin baton! In for a penny... in for the pound!! I salute you.









“The Minions Do the Actual Writing”: The Ugly Truth of How Movie Scores Are Made


The streaming revolution is changing the way film composers get paid and exposing the flaws of a system where big names farm their scores out to uncredited “ghost composers.” Now, the artists actually writing the music are demanding recognition—and a fair share of the profits.




www.vanityfair.com


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## doctoremmet (Oct 5, 2022)

This has been discussed to death on this forum.


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## marclawsonmusic (Oct 5, 2022)

Yeah, this was a hit piece that came out during awards season. Has been discussed ad nauseum here.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 5, 2022)

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/“the-minions-do-the-actual-writing”-the-ugly-truth-of-how-movie-scores-are-made.121665/


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## Land of Missing Parts (Oct 5, 2022)

It's a _shonda_!


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## toomanynotes (Oct 5, 2022)

oh crap-- pls ignore- I been in prison so I only saw it today. Sorry


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## Snarf (Oct 5, 2022)

toomanynotes said:


> oh crap-- pls ignore- I been in prison so I only saw it today. Sorry


What...?


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## thorwald (Oct 5, 2022)

Just to add something to this that perhaps was not discussed here:

This is also true for many other forms of entertainment. See William Shatner and Quick, James Dashner, etc, for books. In a lot of cases, the editor should be the one who is praised for their author's voice, word choices, etc.

I don't agree with it, but given how everything is sped up, and people expect 3 books, 3 albums, etc, yearly from an author/composer, this is really not surprising. One degree worse is when you have playback bands from the 90s who hired someone to act as their singer, because the singer did not look as good.


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## Zedcars (Oct 5, 2022)

toomanynotes said:


> oh crap-- pls ignore- I been in prison so I only saw it today. Sorry


In prison? So I guess the obvious question with film music these days…who’s behind the bars? 

[Edited for typos]


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## toomanynotes (Oct 5, 2022)

Snarf said:


> What...?


yeah, to cut a long story short, I fell out of my bed straight through a bank wall which accidentally ripped a vault door open and tripped the alarm at the same time.. before I cld explain and apologise..The judge didn't buy it.


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## robgb (Oct 5, 2022)

thorwald said:


> This is also true for many other forms of entertainment. See William Shatner and Quick, James Dashner, etc, for books. In a lot of cases, the editor should be the one who is praised for their author's voice, word choices, etc.


Ghost writing is a long-standing practice. But I can tell you flat out that the editor has little to do with it. While it may be true that some editors are very hands on, in my own experience they are mostly superfluous. Their job is acquiring the property and after that their participation is mostly notes that often go ignored by the writer (depending on his or her experience).

I did one ghostwriting gig and the only time I heard a peep from the editor was after I turned the book in, and very little was changed. I can't even remember the editor's name.


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## b_elliott (Oct 5, 2022)

toomanynotes said:


> yeah, to cut a long story short, I fell out of my bed straight through a bank wall which accidentally ripped a vault door open and tripped the alarm at the same time.. before I cld explain and apologise..The judge didn't buy it.


Reads like an hilarious Donald Westlake novel I once read (Bank Shot).


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## I like music (Oct 5, 2022)

toomanynotes said:


> yeah, to cut a long story short, I fell out of my bed straight through a bank wall which accidentally ripped a vault door open and tripped the alarm at the same time.. before I cld explain and apologise..The judge didn't buy it.


That's why you send your assistant to do it...


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## nolotrippen (Oct 5, 2022)

toomanynotes said:


> yeah, to cut a long story short, I fell out of my bed straight through a bank wall which accidentally ripped a vault door open and tripped the alarm at the same time.. before I cld explain and apologise..The judge didn't buy it.


So I'm not the only one.


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## thorwald (Oct 5, 2022)

robgb said:


> Ghost writing is a long-standing practice. But I can tell you flat out that the editor has little to do with it. While it may be true that some editors are very hands on, in my own experience they are mostly superfluous. Their job is acquiring the property and after that their participation is mostly notes that often go ignored by the writer (depending on his or her experience).


Yes, this is indeed true, but it also depends on the ghost writer. Depending on the publisher and the complexity of the project, the editor might end up being the ghost writer as well.


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## robgb (Oct 5, 2022)

thorwald said:


> the editor might end up being the ghost writer as well.


Most editors are NOT writers, so that could be disastrous and is extremely unlikely. If you have an editor who fancies him or herself a writer, run in the opposite direction.


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## thorwald (Oct 5, 2022)

robgb said:


> Most editors are NOT writers, so that could be disastrous and is extremely unlikely. If you have an editor who fancies him or herself a writer, run in the opposite direction.


I unfortunately had the misfortune of encountering more than one editor like this, and yes, I indeed ran in the opposite direction 😀


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## b_elliott (Oct 5, 2022)

robgb said:


> Most editors are NOT writers, so that could be disastrous and is extremely unlikely. If you have an editor who fancies him or herself a writer, run in the opposite direction.


Dan Simmons (American author) wrote in explicit detail about one such editor he encountered while first writing _Carrion Comfort_ -- described that particular editor as a psychic vampire.

It's as wild a preface from any author I've encountered.
Can be found in the anniversary edition, if curious.

No intention to drive off topic, but readers no doubt see the connections....


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## robgb (Oct 6, 2022)

b_elliott said:


> Dan Simmons (American author) wrote in explicit detail about one such editor he encountered while first writing _Carrion Comfort_ -- described that particular editor as a psychic vampire.
> 
> It's as wild a preface from any author I've encountered.
> Can be found in the anniversary edition, if curious.
> ...


One of my good friends once had an editor at a very big publishing house who actually went through his manuscript and rewrote several passages. I remember when this happened and none of us (his writer friends) could believe the editor had the audacity to do this. First, because it normally isn't done, and second, because the changes were horrendous. I saw them. Fortunately, my friend was able to complain to the publisher and all the editor's changes were removed. But it could just as easily have been a disaster of a book with my friend's name on it.


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## MusiquedeReve (Oct 6, 2022)

How do you write an entire Hollywood score on one hand?


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## HarmonKard (Oct 6, 2022)

MusiquedeReve said:


> How do you write an entire Hollywood score on one hand?


By pointing to your ghosts. _You do the love scene, you do the main titles, you do the chase scene..._


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## MusiquedeReve (Oct 6, 2022)

HarmonKard said:


> By pointing to your ghosts. _You do the love scene, you do the main titles, you do the chase scene..._


I guess my joke did not land as I will now have to explain it (never the sign of a good joke)

I meant writing the actual sheet music *on* one's actual hand


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## FireGS (Oct 6, 2022)

They can count the number on one hand.


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## GtrString (Oct 6, 2022)

Its the business side of things, not much to do with music as a unique, personal form of expression. Good thing might be that AI will eat up some of this market soon.


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## sumVI (Oct 6, 2022)

The history of music in the western world, dating at least back to J. S. Bach, has always been one of oppression. It is a crazy equation, difficult to quantify and categorize because objectives and desires are too varied and skewed. I feel for all of the brave, tender, trampled souls devoured by the *bling*-*bling*-*me first*-money-machine. You are my shadow, my alt-self, my quiet muse, the inside joke I knowingly whispered while shuffling between classes for the better part of a decade working on a degree in economics because, “I loved music more than anything in the world.”

(I suppose, in economic thought, my motives would fall under the “theory of the second best.”)

Now...before I swiftly show myself the door...for those of you living in the U.S. please remember to lock in your 9.62% six month return on I-Bonds before the Nov. 1st rate change. The next six month rate should be even higher. Basically, this is an inflation hedge that should help you afford virtual instruments in the future.

This Youtube blogger does a good series about it. Cheers!


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## MusiquedeReve (Oct 6, 2022)

FireGS said:


> They can count the number on one hand.


I know

As I said, I was making a joke and/or play on words


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## VTX Rudy (Oct 6, 2022)

MusiquedeReve said:


> How do you write an entire Hollywood score on one hand?


😂


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## tmhuud (Oct 6, 2022)

VTX Rudy said:


> 😂


You have REALLY big hands?


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## joebaggan (Oct 7, 2022)

sumVI said:


> The history of music in the western world, dating at least back to J. S. Bach, has always been one of oppression. It is a crazy equation, difficult to quantify and categorize because objectives and desires are too varied and skewed. I feel for all of the brave, tender, trampled souls devoured by the *bling*-*bling*-*me first*-money-machine. You are my shadow, my alt-self, my quiet muse, the inside joke I knowingly whispered while shuffling between classes for the better part of a decade working on a degree in economics because, “I loved music more than anything in the world.”
> 
> (I suppose, in economic thought, my motives would fall under the “theory of the second best.”)
> 
> ...



Wow, great tip, didn't know about that high rate! Feel free to drop any other financial tips for the library starved!


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## aeliron (Oct 7, 2022)

MusiquedeReve said:


> How do you write an entire Hollywood score on one hand?


Depends on the genre.

"Load X library. Press C#"


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## HarmonKard (Oct 7, 2022)

MusiquedeReve said:


> I guess my joke did not land as I will now have to explain it (never the sign of a good joke)
> 
> I meant writing the actual sheet music *on* one's actual hand


Ok, _now_ I get it


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## TinderC (Oct 7, 2022)

joebaggan said:


> Wow, great tip, didn't know about that high rate! Feel free to drop any other financial tips for the library starved!


If it's all true you could earn enough for two $400-500 libraries after 12 months with the maximum $10K i-bond. If your partner gets one too that's a lot of libraries.


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