# Moonkits: Modern Brush Drums by Soniccouture



## soniccouture (Oct 30, 2019)

Moonkits By Soniccouture

Up to 116 Velocity Layers With Anti-Repeat & randomise function.
Brushes, Rods, Mallets, Stick articulations.
Real Brush Sweep Performance Loops.
3 Beat Tools Pattern Sequencers.
12GB Library | Kontakt Player 6 + NKS Compatible.
A journey to the softer side of the drum-kit. Recorded at Konk Studios, London, Moonkits is a quirky collection of kits played with brushes, rods, mallets and occasionally, sticks.
Featuring real brush sweep performances that integrate with the preset grooves in the three custom Beat Tools, we think it's a very expressive, organic sounding instrument.

*FREE LOOPS DOWNLOAD*

To show off what Moonkits can do, Soniccouture have made a set of 20 loops, exported directly from the Kontakt instrument, showcasing the patterns and sounds it generates. The free loops can be downloaded direct from Soniccouture or Native Instruments.

*INTRO OFFER*
Until 15th Nov 2019 you can get 30% off Moonkits. Price as marked on website.

Full Video Walkthrough By James


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 2, 2019)

I bought it just now and am downloading. I have a lot of brush kits already, but I reviewed some projects tonight and had two dense but mellow songs that use rods and brushes and they weren't cutting through. I'll update this post once installed and trialed, so that I can give first-hand testimony about how well this library lives up to its focus on lower-velocity detail. I'll be focusing on Gretsch and Slingerland at first. There's a lot in this library, and the rest will get used as I hit other projects.


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 3, 2019)

That didn't take long! Using the Gretsch 1954 Brush Kit, I immediately got what was in my head all along, and the results are just perfect, cutting through with lots of detail rather than getting buried or having to push to higher velocity or volume and sounding unnatural. This may well be the first library that has taken this approach to the important lower velocities of brush playing!

As soon as I wrap up a final take on the drums for this one song, I'll approach the other song with the Gretsch 1954 Rods Kit. These are both classically-influenced instrumentals that aren't really pop but are hard to pin to a genre so I call them pop so as to not offend anyone who's a purist.


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 3, 2019)

It took about an hour last night to perfect that Philip-Glass-Meets-ABBA instrumental, as I had to experiment a lot with different velocity levels for each kit piece before being rewarded with what I was hoping for, which is that velocities lower than 64 bring out the best in the kit and help it cut through the best. When I originally recorded the drums for this piece, it was on a Yamaha MOTIF family ROMpler, and Yamaha has always done a good job of programming those beasts but of course their resolution is low. So really, I was just bringing this back to what it was like before I had to pump it up for other sample libraries to not throw away as ghost notes.

The better news is that the drum kit mix settings are perfect, so I am able to bounce just one stereo track and then leave it to buss processing. No need to add processing to the individual kit pieces (I am using the raw snapshots), or to do individual mono kit piece bounces. The mix balance is perfect, once you have your individual kit piece MIDI tracks at well-matched and consistent velocity levels. In other words, no need to move away from what would be a natural balance when playing in the parts, or even when editing MIDI pattern files.

I hope to get to the Gretsch rod kit a bit later today. It's being used on an instrumental piece that is driven by a large pipe organ, so it will be interesting to put MoonKits up to this challenge!


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## soniccouture (Nov 3, 2019)

Great to hear it's doing what you hoped, Mark. That's really the best feedback there is, in this game.

You're right - it all sounds better at lower velocties. I think this is true to some extent of ALL drum libraries - because drums whacked really hard don't sound so great recorded. The drum tone remains much the same, but you get a huge spike of transient energy on the attack which isn't really audible, but messes up your headroom and causes problems with compressors etc.

It's true to say that most drummers don't hit their drums really really hard most of the time, either - because drums reach 90% of their full 'loudness' with just a strong wrist hit.

The problem really comes with drum samples sets: I think it's natural for all of us to want to pump up the velocity to 100+, because the velocity scaling probably means the instrument sounds louder and fuller there, and we believe we're getting the best sound there. But start working with the medium range and it suddenly becomes easier to get a nicer drum sound. Once I had this light-bulb moment, I really wanted to make a drum library with lots and lots of softer hits, but also to limit the power in the top end a little too. People producing drum sample sets naturally have the drummer work up from 'soft' to 'as hard as you can', and somehow the focus tends to be more on that end of things - all us devs have been there. You do have to have some harder hits - sure - but when you ask a drummer 'would you ever really hit a drum THAT hard when playing', the answer is often 'no'. 

So. Keep it softer, people.


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 3, 2019)

The Rod Kit experiment on the semi-modern Hymn in 9/4 time, went very well, but was a slightly bigger challenge as rods have a very focused pitch compared to brushes or sticks, when it comes to the snare drum. So I ended up tuning the snare up by 2-1/2 semi-tones. Then everything blended well within the kit and with the woodwind and pipe organ score (which has a pulsing synth bass as that carried better than any of the organ pedals did in VSL).

This is a really musical library, and I've only explored the Gretsch so far. There will be times when I reach for other libraries just because of the limitations in articulations being bound to General MIDI when it comes to the toms and cymbals. But there are plenty of times when I need the snare to carry things, and this may well be one of the best approaches yet to dealing with snare, especially with mallets, rods, and brushes vs. sticks.

It will take a while to explore everything that this library has to offer.

At roughly $100 introductory price, this one's a no-brainer for anyone sitting on the fence.


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## soniccouture (Nov 4, 2019)

Hi Mark,
I appreciate your point about articulations, but I would say that the kits vary slightly with toms: some kits have centre, edge and rim for toms. Rides are always bell middle edge, as you said.

It's important for me to say that the sheer number of velocities incorporate so much extra expression that it belies the actual number of traditional position 'articulations' - particularly so in the case of Hi-hats: the drummers varied their stick postion across the range, from top/tip to side/shank as you get up to the harder velocities. In all drums you find a wide tonal variation across the velocity stack simply due to the number of samples.

I agree with you about rods - they're a great sound but somehow often harder to work with in practice. there's a huge transient there, for a start.

James


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## soniccouture (Nov 4, 2019)

Mark Schmieder said:


> a large pipe organ



we have one of these coming shortly. Very large.


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 4, 2019)

I'm definitely finding that the extra velocity layers go well beyond "just" different SPL's or attack transients and help humanize the sound in ways that are tedious with other programs even if they offer dozens of articulations. I'm guessing that's more meant for those using V-Drums to trigger, whereas MoonKits works well with keyboards and notation as well.

I just finished my first use of the Rogers 1964 Mallets kit and it too saved a song that I thought maybe would need to dump the drums altogether, as I was struggling so much with my previous choices so that I would get the right accompaniment but still be heard. I can really hear the mallets build with this library as well; usually that is not the case.

The Rogers Brush kit got applied to two other pieces tonight as well. I didn't use any processing even though it's there, and am just sticking with the raw settings. But so far I have been applying this library in quiet pieces (even if sometimes instrumentally dense), that had proven a problem before and had gone through countless iterations of different sound sources and even re-do's of the rhythm accompaniment.

I've just stuck to the Gretsch and Rogers kits so far. I may get around to some of the others tomorrow, or later in the week. I've made my way through the entire user manual by now though, as well as experimenting with every feature within the GUI, except for the beats engine.


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## soniccouture (Nov 4, 2019)

Great, it's fascinating to read your thoughts as you progress.

I think you'll really like the Ludwig kit with snares off. That was a revelation to me, because generally in any library the snare off sound is a 'bong', but the soft hits with brushes in Moonkits have lots of top end detail from the brush itself, contrasted with a nice clear tone from the body with no wires adding tons of gnarly mids.


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## BezO (Nov 4, 2019)

Any chance there's an option to remap MIDI notes for the kit pieces that I'm not seeing in the manual?


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## soniccouture (Nov 4, 2019)

BezO said:


> Any chance there's an option to remap MIDI notes for the kit pieces that I'm not seeing in the manual?



no, not currently I'm afraid. we can look at adding it.

<edit>we've looked and remembered why we can't do it!<edit>


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## BezO (Nov 4, 2019)

soniccouture said:


> no, not currently I'm afraid. we can look at adding it.
> 
> <edit>we've looked and remembered why we can't do it!<edit>


Uggh!!! Thanks for the quick response though.


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 4, 2019)

Ooh, I'll have to try with snares off tonight then! The drummer in my jazz combo turns off his snares when he uses mallets, and sometimes even when he uses rods or burshes, but as you say, most sample libraries sound awful when you do that, so I just didn't get around to trying that as it was past midnight and I was up until 2am as it was (even accounting for the end of DST).


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 4, 2019)

Also, I should have alerted you that there seem to be some minor instability issues, apparently related to snapshots and maybe CPU, but a restart always fixes the issue and I was working well past midnight both nights so didn't want to cut into my productivity by trying to find reproducible steps.

It seems that sometimes after switching snapshots, some of the old samples are still loaded, even a bit later on after giving sufficient time for a full sample load, and also there was a point where switching back to the original choice might produce that problem along with the selector tool not working and it being stuck on editing the kick drum.

I didn't run into this last night though; only the night before. I suspect it was a performance issue, as this does seem to be a somewhat resource-heavy library (though I haven't measured it yet using tools for metrics). I think I turned off playback of other tracks last night when I did my rendering runs.

As I recall, I occasionally had similar troubles with Electro-Acoustic at one point as well, and likely that too was a resource management issue. I'm using the latest update to DP 10, which for some reason seems slower and glitchier than the previous update, with 64GB of RAM in my 2017 top-end iMac.

FWIW I am running all of my Soniccouture samples off of an SSD, as you're my top vendor and several of your libraries (such as Hammersmith Pro) really gain from the faster load and access times.


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## burp182 (Nov 4, 2019)

One thing for those of us using older Macs to run Kontakt - Moonkits requires version 6.1 and that requires OS X 10.12+ to install. Not a problem for all but something to be aware of.


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 5, 2019)

I ended up using Moonkit 5 to replace the drums on a Bowie-influenced song (Scary Monsters era), where there's a lot of Spanish and Moroccan instruments going on (including Flamenco Guitar, Castanets, Riq, Maracas, and Flamenco Steps). It needed an older/drier sound than what most modern drum programs provide, from the production point of view, along the line of Abbey Road for Kontakt.

The Timbales really work well in the context of the kit for this one, as well as in the specific instrument mix I already had going on, and though I thought it odd at first that the Macho Timbale uses a beaterbrush whilst the Hembra Timbale uses sticks, that seems to work better than using sticks on both timbales. This sort of kit setup is actually becoming popular in several regions and genres at the moment.

I did briefly try the "no snare" version of the Ludwig kit with Mallets, but it didn't cut through in the super-quiet ballad vocal song where I was using it. It might work well in other contexts, and once I get to my jazz material, I may find that the brush kits with the snare wires thrown off, may be just the ticket.

It's truly amazing how much bang for buck there is in this library, given how many distinct kits, combinations, articulations, and playing implements it includes.


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## soniccouture (Nov 5, 2019)

Mark Schmieder said:


> Also, I should have alerted you that there seem to be some minor instability issues, apparently related to snapshots and maybe CPU, but a restart always fixes the issue and I was working well past midnight both nights so didn't want to cut into my productivity by trying to find reproducible steps.
> 
> It seems that sometimes after switching snapshots, some of the old samples are still loaded, even a bit later on after giving sufficient time for a full sample load, and also there was a point where switching back to the original choice might produce that problem along with the selector tool not working and it being stuck on editing the kick drum.



We've not experienced or had reports of anything like this - so my first thought is that it may be DP related? if it persists, email us with reproducible steps and Dan will try to trouble shoot.

James


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## richard kurek (Nov 5, 2019)

liking this library, as many here we have more software than sand on a beach, it a fast tool with solid results , a big plus is easy to create on the spot beats, so bravo !


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## soniccouture (Nov 5, 2019)

richard kurek said:


> liking this library, as many here we have more software than sand on a beach, it a fast tool with solid results , a big plus is easy to create on the spot beats, so bravo !



Great feedback, thanks!


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 5, 2019)

Yeah, I think it might be DP related as your colleague DCP from Yamaha synth programming days, said he's been having some DP problems with specific VI's of late as well.

I'll have a bit more time coming up, to slow down long enough to try to recreate the steps more precisely, if the issue comes up again. It may have not quite finished loading though, as it's a bit slow even on an SSD due to the large size of what is needed in memory to deal with all the options.


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## BezO (Nov 6, 2019)

The presets give me sounds I put in a lot of work for with other VIs, but by folks that are better at it than me. I have several tunes I want to swap the drums for these in Logic. I imagine Logic's included MIDI map script would help with the remapping and be more efficient than transposing.

Soniccouture, please include MIDI remapping in your future drum VIs. As a finger drummer, it's my one disappointment with Moonkits. GM base layouts makes it much tougher to play, at least for me.


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 9, 2019)

I'm starting to dig in deeper now with the editing controls, and now fully understand the routing options and what they pertain to. I am thrilled that the kit pieces can be tuned without artifacts. The Filters are also much more natural sounding that what I'm used to in sample-based drum production.


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 10, 2019)

Much to my surprise, I found the Oddity kit (Yamaha kick) to improve the energy and flow of a synth-pop song in my ouevre, using the sticks preset as a basis and just tuning the Floor Tom for a more melodic interval (and in the key of the song) with the Rack Tom.

I'm still a little cautious about using the more heavily processed presets outside of the studio sub-menu, as I am finding so far that just taking a LOT of time to properly balance the kit pieces and articulations, and being aware of the mic balances (which I have not yet needed to adjust), pretty much gives me what I need. But I have dynamic range in most of my drums; even if using a dance beat as in this song.

At any rate, it's now clear to me that Moonkits can be great even for pieces that have a heavy driving kick with some elaborate snare playing on standard sticks, and that it isn't "just" a kit for mellower material -- just as James says anyway in the introductory video. This is just an amazing library overall, very versatile, and clearly carefully thought out by real musicians.


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## soniccouture (Nov 12, 2019)

BezO said:


> The presets give me sounds I put in a lot of work for with other VIs, but by folks that are better at it than me. I have several tunes I want to swap the drums for these in Logic. I imagine Logic's included MIDI map script would help with the remapping and be more efficient than transposing.
> 
> Soniccouture, please include MIDI remapping in your future drum VIs. As a finger drummer, it's my one disappointment with Moonkits. GM base layouts makes it much tougher to play, at least for me.



Hi there,
Unfortunately there was a technical reason that remapping was not possible with this instrument. it was a choice between including less articulations for some drums or having the remapping. Perhaps we made the wrong choice, but it's done now.

However, there is an easy fix here - we've put it in a blog post:

Moonkits: How to re-map for e-drums




James


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## soniccouture (Nov 12, 2019)

Mark Schmieder said:


> Much to my surprise, I found the Oddity kit (Yamaha kick) to improve the energy and flow of a synth-pop song in my ouevre, using the sticks preset as a basis and just tuning the Floor Tom for a more melodic interval (and in the key of the song) with the Rack Tom.
> 
> I'm still a little cautious about using the more heavily processed presets outside of the studio sub-menu, as I am finding so far that just taking a LOT of time to properly balance the kit pieces and articulations, and being aware of the mic balances (which I have not yet needed to adjust), pretty much gives me what I need. But I have dynamic range in most of my drums; even if using a dance beat as in this song.
> 
> At any rate, it's now clear to me that Moonkits can be great even for pieces that have a heavy driving kick with some elaborate snare playing on standard sticks, and that it isn't "just" a kit for mellower material -- just as James says anyway in the introductory video. This is just an amazing library overall, very versatile, and clearly carefully thought out by real musicians.



Please do try the presets, Mark: in general they just comes down to an interesting mix of drums with some creative EQ and compression. One of the biggest bonuses with Moonkits is that you can combine kit pieces however you want, so please don't miss out on that by sticking to the template kits!

James


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## BezO (Nov 12, 2019)

soniccouture said:


> Hi there,
> Unfortunately there was a technical reason that remapping was not possible with this instrument. it was a choice between including less articulations for some drums or having the remapping. Perhaps we made the wrong choice, but it's done now.
> 
> However, there is an easy fix here - we've put it in a blog post:
> ...


Thank you!

I was going to try a similar script Logic has, but this is better as I'm in the midst of a transition to Studio One.


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 12, 2019)

Thanks James; good to know, as it's time-consuming to go through all the presets and also to compare settings, so it's nice to know that there is a consistent philosophy and approach behind them all, as that also saves time when evaluating them and means we don't have to tweak out parts much if we switch.

I have swapped a few kit pieces here and there, but end up preferring the templates, in terms of how the kits gel together. But so far I've only tried that with the stick kits, which of course aren't 100% sticks anyway as a few kit pieces weren't recorded with sticks.

I've been so happy with the studio templates for the brush, rod, and mallet kits, that I've only done some minor kit piece tuning here and there, but I'll be getting to some of my jazz and ambient projects soon, and that will be a good time to experiment with the more "produced" presets.

So far, I have mostly been swapping MoonKits into some pop material, where it shines far beyond my expectations. I will be even more thrilled if you eventually expand this library's collection a bit!


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## kclements (Nov 21, 2019)

thanks for all your comments Mark. I’ve been eyeing this kit for some jazz projects that seem perfectly suited. Some contemporary Smooth Jazz stuff but also more traditional jazz trio, Guaraldi kind of grooves. It’s nice to hear you’ve found it so adaptable.

did you get around to using it on more jazz material?


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 21, 2019)

I've been completely slammed at the day job due to product rollout, and also lots of gigs this time of year. I'll have some time over Thanksgiving Week though.


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## BezO (Nov 24, 2019)

soniccouture said:


> Hi there,
> Unfortunately there was a technical reason that remapping was not possible with this instrument. it was a choice between including less articulations for some drums or having the remapping. Perhaps we made the wrong choice, but it's done now.
> 
> However, there is an easy fix here - we've put it in a blog post:
> ...


This may not do what I need, but I’m struggling either way. A couple questions:

Is it possible to map 2 notes to the original? For example, I need the kick on A0 & Bb0.

Just in case the answer to #1 is yes, how in the world do I get to other octaves?

Great for e-drums, but I'm not sure if this will suite my needs. I finger drum on an MPC with a layout like this:


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## unclecheeks (Nov 24, 2019)

BezO said:


> The presets give me sounds I put in a lot of work for with other VIs, but by folks that are better at it than me. I have several tunes I want to swap the drums for these in Logic. I imagine Logic's included MIDI map script would help with the remapping and be more efficient than transposing.
> 
> Soniccouture, please include MIDI remapping in your future drum VIs. As a finger drummer, it's my one disappointment with Moonkits. GM base layouts makes it much tougher to play, at least for me.



This remapping ksp may be what you’re looking for 









NoteMatrix 2 | hagaidavidoff


NoteMatrix is an elegant and sophisticated MIDI mapper for Kontakt/Kontakt player (Ver 5.8 and above) that grabs incoming MIDI notes from your MIDI hardware, and swaps them in real-time with other MIDI notes and channels of your choice. The configuration is then saved with the track so you won't...




www.hagaid.com


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 25, 2019)

Not to distract from the mapping discussion, but I just spent a few hours re-tracking around eight pieces using Moonkits.

Mostly ambient material, which is a REAL challenge for most drum software as one usually has to use super-high velocities for it to cut through the mix, and then the sound is all wrong. Moonkits is perfect for this sort of material, and I used a different kit on each piece, so I covered brushes, mallets, rods, sticks, and hybrid kits (as well as tea towels and timbales).

Once I have reviewed my jazz album tracks, I'll be ready to go through everything once again to see if any of them benefit from the produced presets vs. the studio template presets that I've been using (the second of the three menu choices in the snapshots).

I do sometimes have trouble getting the top kit stuff to cut through, in dense mixes that have a lot of upper-mids, as most of these kits have fairly low-pitches cymbals, and I don't believe in tuning cymbal samples as too many anomalies result, but maybe I should try in this case (when I'm not rushing for productivity as I was tonight before the work week begins).

The ways in which one can "tune" cymbals in real life don't occur to me as being likely to have been "modeled" via scripting, so I'm reminded of the notion of sample-stretching stuff like harpsichord libraries, like in the 90's. But maybe I'll get surprised. Either that, or maybe I'll find some useful production techniques in the produced snapshots.

My strategy at this point is to modify my material to make the best of Moonkits, once I have found the best possible match from the template kits. This library is just too good, to not use it everywhere possible. At any rate, it's always healthy to challenge oneself to re-think why one is using high-pitched top kit and/or so many different cymbals. Sometimes the part tightens up and cuts through better when it's not trying to go all Terry Bozzio all the time.


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## BezO (Nov 25, 2019)

A couple of routing items I may be overlooking:

Is there a global way to set OH, room & rear mics for all channels to a particular bus?

And is there a way to get the routing to stick when changing presets? I thought saving over the nki would do it, but it doesn't seem to be working on the individual outs.



unclecheeks said:


> This remapping ksp may be what you’re looking for
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not yet ready to spend for this function.


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## unclecheeks (Nov 25, 2019)

Another question - has anyone tried using EZ Drummer grooves with Moonkits, and does it map well? 

MIDI note mapping info should really be included in the Moonkits manual, but alas, 'tis not.


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## Quasar (Nov 25, 2019)

I missed the opening intro price party and all of that, but these kits sound absolutely gorgeous. Not just for jazz, but for a wide spectrum of the more delicate sides of drumming, the sounds are astonishingly nuanced, organic, expressive and alive... I watched the walkthrough and definitely want this library, though the purchase is going to have to wait for the time being.


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## unclecheeks (Nov 25, 2019)

BezO said:


> I'm not yet ready to spend for this function.



Just offering a solution to your mapping problem. How you spend your money is your prerogative and none of my business. 👍


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## BezO (Nov 26, 2019)

unclecheeks said:


> Just offering a solution to your mapping problem. How you spend your money is your prerogative and none of my business. 👍


Thanks for the suggestion. After some searching, Studio One's Note FX Chorder may be a cheaper, simpler solution. I'll try it out tonight.


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## Mark Schmieder (Dec 4, 2019)

Thanks for doing that. I noticed it isn't exactly the same for everything, but I think it's likely that some are simply more limited subsets of that schema, so it seems you did the hard work of verifying that. It's overall pretty close to GM, so it takes me very little time to re-map stuff for MoonKits trials.

Edit: Huh, what happened? The post I was commending for showing the MIDI mapping chart, got deleted?


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## markhw (Dec 4, 2019)

Mark Schmieder said:


> Edit: Huh, what happened? The post I was commending for showing the MIDI mapping chart, got deleted?


Sorry, deleted my comment.

Here's a rough key map I put together for the drum articulations. I was a bit surprised there wasn't something like this in the manual. Some specific drums have additional notes not shown (e.g. brush swipes) and some are missing a few of the keys shown, but I find this is generally accurate across the kits.


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## Mark Schmieder (Jan 7, 2020)

I spent a lot of time on MoonKits last night, going through all of the custom presets in both categories (vs. just the second of the three preset snapshot directories, for the more-or-less raw kits), and for now am still finding that the mostly-unprocessed kits are what I need almost all of the time, but I did run across a mystery that is not resolved by the user manual:

What is the Gope Snare? It isn't listed for any of the five kits in the user manual (but is available from the snare drum drop-menu); nor do I see extra kit pieces listed. Was it added later, and the user manual doesn't reflect this (or possibly has an update that I didn't download)?

My guess is that it is either a Caixa de Guerra, a Malacacheta (generally a deeper Caixa), or a Brasilian Snare (generally constructed more like a Malacacheta or Caixa but with hoops closer to a standard American Snare Drum and with Snare Wires, even if on the top vs. bottom, vs. guitar strings across the top and the like).


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## soniccouture (Jan 8, 2020)

Hi Mark,
it's one of these, it was recorded on the last day as an extra, not part of one of the kits.


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## bigisland (Jan 8, 2020)

Hi soniccouture.

As Ive stated before this a nice sounding library. However, I'm trying to get a grip on the round robin options. Firstly, the difference in level is quite noticeable between the various hits in the round robin cycle, at least on the stick and snare in the 1954 brushes off kit, and when I try to turn off the round robin option in the drop down menu I don't really notice a difference.... Its still very dynamic with noticeable variations in timing. Do I need to do something different?
Secondly, I wish developers would give users a creative and simple access to the round robins. I would love to decide what sample should play when on a given velocity. Of the too many libraries I own OT´s metropolis series is the only one that kind of gives me that....

Jacob


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## Mark Schmieder (Jan 8, 2020)

Thanks for the info; that helps me decide how to use that extra kit piece in some new custom user kits that I am going to put together. I'll look it up a bit later today as I think I recognize the Gope model. The Timbales are great so I may end up making a small Brasilian base kit as my go-to for that stuff. I just have to make sure there are enough articulations available for customization.


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## soniccouture (Jan 8, 2020)

bigisland said:


> Hi soniccouture.
> 
> As Ive stated before this a nice sounding library. However, I'm trying to get a grip on the round robin options. Firstly, the difference in level is quite noticeable between the various hits in the round robin cycle, at least on the stick and snare in the 1954 brushes off kit, and when I try to turn off the round robin option in the drop down menu I don't really notice a difference.... Its still very dynamic with noticeable variations in timing. Do I need to do something different?



it's important to understand that there isn't a Round Robin cycle in the traditional sense of a pool of (largely redundant) samples. We simply use a velocity stack of 100+ sample layers, which means that, when either played manually or triggered using with our Velocity Randomise feature, you're very very unlikely to hit the same velocity layer twice in quick succession. if that scenario DOES happen, the layer above or below is played instead, with the level intelligently adjusted to match. This is the 'round robin' feature you can switch OFF in the menu.

The variation in level you are hearing is almost certainly down to the Velocity Randomise setting, linked with the Vel sensitivity fader. If you turn Vel Randomise to 0, you should hear it even out. Sticks may be an exception to this because they do not have so many velocity layers, and the variation between hits is greater.




bigisland said:


> Secondly, I wish developers would give users a creative and simple access to the round robins. I would love to decide what sample should play when on a given velocity. Of the too many libraries I own OT´s metropolis series is the only one that kind of gives me that....



If you turn 'Round Robins' OFF, and the Vel Randomise to zero (and the Beat Tools are not randomising Velocity either), then you will hear the same consistent layer for each different velocity you play, but there is no choice of sample.


Hope that makes it clearer,
James


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## Mark Schmieder (Jan 8, 2020)

As I thought, the Gope snare is a Malacacheta, which is a deeper version of a Caixa de Guerra. It's a somewhat older model equivalent to this current one:

https://www.kalango.com/en/malacacheta-12-x-20-cm-aluminium-gope?c=479
I will have to listen more closely to hear whether it has traditional guitar string snares or snare wire resonators, or neither (some players remove them altogether, and they can always be disengaged anyway).

It is great to have one of these available in a sample library, and especially one as well recorded as this one and which includes a good pair of Timbales, as that combination is starting to show itself in several genres and works well together, so having them together in a consistently recorded library is a big plus.

I recommend you add this information to the user manual and the website, as it may increase sales.


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## Mark Schmieder (Jan 8, 2020)

As for the Timbales, it appears to be the Matador series from LP, in Brass:






LP® Matador® 14" and 15" Brass Timbales







www.lpmusic.com





Although those are considered their intermediate line, I actually personally prefer them to their higher-end ones as it's a warmer and more balanced sound that also blends better with a traditional kit.


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## Mark Schmieder (Jan 8, 2020)

The photo for Kit 5 on p. 11 of the user manual also shows what appears to be a talking drum in the background, but I don't remember spotting this in any of the drop-lists.


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## Mark Schmieder (Jan 8, 2020)

I have just gone through all of my caixa, malacacheta and timbales sources, and the ones in MoonKits are consistently higher-pitched in their tuning, which is awfully hard to find in sample libraries but is often very important for a lot of music. So the inclusion of these is potentially useful to quite a few people.

I would say they're the best recorded of all that is out there, but the articulation count isn't the highest overall, in terms of playing styles. I think that is because they are designed for use within a trap kit vs. as part of an exclusively latin percussion ensemble. At any rate, they are an excellent addition to the library.


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## soniccouture (Jan 15, 2020)

Mark Schmieder said:


> The photo for Kit 5 on p. 11 of the user manual also shows what appears to be a talking drum in the background, but I don't remember spotting this in any of the drop-lists.



that's my djembe that was being used as a note-stand. it wasn't recorded.


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## Mark Schmieder (Jan 15, 2020)

Hah; I thought at first that it was one of those West African drums that looks a bit like a Talking Drum (or Kidi). Somehow the shape didn't seem right for a Djembe.


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## BezO (Jan 16, 2020)

This thing sounds fantastic. I've been experimenting with it in everything from jazz(y), Hip Hop, R&B, big band(y), etc. So fun that I've been playing around with all the kits before getting to work when I pull these up. Again, great, unique drum VI! I have other jazz kits and couldn't get these sounds from them.

I was going to ask about inconsistencies in the panning of the toms, sometimes being wide, sometimes centered, but maybe I've been overlooking the width control. Not being at my rig at the moment, I'll just ask, is that width for the kit piece in the overheads and room mics? Or were kits miked differently? Should I be able to get a consistent position for toms (and cymbals) in the overheads and room mics from kit to kit?


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## soniccouture (Jan 17, 2020)

BezO said:


> I was going to ask about inconsistencies in the panning of the toms, sometimes being wide, sometimes centered, but maybe I've been overlooking the width control. Not being at my rig at the moment, I'll just ask, is that width for the kit piece in the overheads and room mics? Or were kits miked differently? Should I be able to get a consistent position for toms (and cymbals) in the overheads and room mics from kit to kit?



the toms may be panned differently on the mixer in individual preset kits, yes, but all were recorded in the same kit position in the room (apart from the timbales)

The width control on each individual channel will simply widen any stereo signal that's there. So if you are using any or all of the 3 stereo mics on that drum, the LR channels will get pushed apart by the same amount. Mono mics will not be affected by this. If you zero the Width knob you get a mono signal.

James


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## BezO (Jan 17, 2020)

soniccouture said:


> the toms may be panned differently on the mixer in individual preset kits, yes, but all were recorded in the same kit position in the room (apart from the timbales)
> 
> The width control on each individual channel will simply widen any stereo signal that's there. So if you are using any or all of the 3 stereo mics on that drum, the LR channels will get pushed apart by the same amount. Mono mics will not be affected by this. If you zero the Width knob you get a mono signal.
> 
> James


Great! As I was typing, I imagined I wasn't as familiar with the options as I should be. And yes, I always use at least a little of the overheads and rooms.

Thanks


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## Mark Schmieder (Jun 16, 2022)

I see that Moon Kits has now been joined by Sun Drums. Looks to be a stick-based complement to brush-oriented Moon Kits. Sounds great from the demos, and versatile.


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## AugustAuseil (Jun 16, 2022)

Mark Schmieder said:


> Philip-Glass-Meets-ABBA instrumental


I've never wanted to hear something more!


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## John Longley (Jul 21, 2022)

Can anybody confirm that there is multi output routing for Moonkits? I saw there is in sun drums, but I can’t seem to confirm for MK.

Thanks!


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## soniccouture (Jul 21, 2022)

John Longley said:


> Can anybody confirm that there is multi output routing for Moonkits? I saw there is in sun drums, but I can’t seem to confirm for MK.
> 
> Thanks!


Yep - exactly the same layout, on the mixer channel.

James


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## John Longley (Jul 21, 2022)

soniccouture said:


> Yep - exactly the same layout, on the mixer channel.
> 
> James


Thanks!


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## Mark Schmieder (Jul 23, 2022)

soniccouture said:


> Yep - exactly the same layout, on the mixer channel.
> 
> James


Always nice when a vendor uses consistent layout and workflow in their plug-ins/libraries!


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