# Spitfire Solo Strings: Virtuoso Violin Total Performance



## boxheadboy50 (Oct 11, 2018)

Holy crap!



Also, do yourself a favor and watch the Andy Blaney demo piece about 3/4 down the page:
https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-solo-strings/#totalperformance


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## jaketanner (Oct 11, 2018)

Crazy thing is that I was composing a piece for a solo violin, and wish there was one that had all the articulations all in one place, but was intuitive enough to know what I wanted...I was using Cinesamples Solo strings, and while they're great, I think after watching this video, this is the library I was looking for. Hope they decide to make it a separate instrument as well. Although, I think I would still prefer the sound of the Cinesamples..but man, this was great.


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## jbuhler (Oct 11, 2018)

I was very excited to see the Spitfire announcement of this patch when it showed up in my inbox this morning. Recently, I've been working with the legato violin patch that shipped with the release version for a spot solo in an orchestral setting and have been very happy with it, but I was thinking it would be nice if I had easier access to some of the other articulations.


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## jamwerks (Oct 11, 2018)

Black Friday Christmas wish-list direct!


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 11, 2018)

added to wish list, just in case.


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## Mucusman (Oct 11, 2018)

This is making me take a second look at this package. Sounds great. Anyone who has both this and Embertone's Joshua Bell violin willing to comment on how they compare? I was set to get Joshua Bell, but now I'm not quite as decided.


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## fixxer49 (Oct 11, 2018)

Mucusman said:


> This is making me take a second look at this package. Sounds great. Anyone who has both this and Embertone's Joshua Bell violin willing to comment on how they compare? I was set to get Joshua Bell, but now I'm not quite as decided.


Joshua Bell is miles ahead. but it's only one instrument.


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## jaketanner (Oct 11, 2018)

fixxer49 said:


> Joshua Bell is miles ahead. but it's only one instrument.



How is it miles ahead? From the JB tutorials, it looks like a lot of time is needed to set it just right each time. Seems like there are too many things to tweak. Plus as you mentioned, it's one instrument and it's half the price of SF's whole Solo library. I thought about the JB library, but the way I see it (after hearing Sf's new virtuoso), is if you need all those minute articulations in the JB violin, then you may as well get a live player. I am certain that with this new addition, anyone can get the point across for any mockup. I think it's exactly what I was waiting for...Black Friday!!! LOL


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 11, 2018)

i recently used Saxer's MIDI file to compare a few solo violin instruments.

JB did exceptionally well, especially with the 140bpm section. lovely tone too.

i don't have the Spitfire to compare, though.

just a nudge to JB since it was mentioned.

https://vi-control.net/community/th...-library-benchmarking-entries-now-open.72778/


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## playz123 (Oct 11, 2018)

fixxer49 said:


> Joshua Bell is miles ahead. but it's only one instrument.


Sorry I don't know how you came to that conclusion, especially after watching the video above, but I will suggest that your statement is, in my opinion, inaccurate. BOTH instruments are excellent, but are also very different...different players, different tone, different programing etc. My choice is the Spitfire violin, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone else preferred the JB one either. But IMHO, neither one is miles ahead of the other, especially if one owns and has worked with both libraries. I also consider the new Spitfire virtuoso violin a huge step forward as well.


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## aaronventure (Oct 11, 2018)

Holy voice count


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 11, 2018)

looks like this would lickity-split CSSS.

especially if there's a black friday thang.

yes?

i haven't jumped on the CSS/S or Spitfire trains yet, so this season is my death match.


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## fixxer49 (Oct 11, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> How is it miles ahead? From the JB tutorials, it looks like a lot of time is needed to set it just right each time. Seems like there are too many things to tweak. Plus as you mentioned, it's one instrument and it's half the price of SF's whole Solo library. I thought about the JB library, but the way I see it (after hearing Sf's new virtuoso), is if you need all those minute articulations in the JB violin, then you may as well get a live player. I am certain that with this new addition, anyone can get the point across for any mockup. I think it's exactly what I was waiting for...Black Friday!!! LOL


don't get me wrong, i am ecstatic with this update from SF (see my earlier post), and the new patch is going to get a LOT of mileage. but the JB violin is a bona fide freak. maybe it just suits my style of playing. so i happen to _think_ it's better, i.e more robust, more playable, more realistic, and more powerful as a solo violin instrument. this is one person's opinion.


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## boxheadboy50 (Oct 11, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Holy voice count


Good lord, I didn't even notice that!


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## Raphioli (Oct 11, 2018)

Sounds like a really impressive update.
I'll add this to my wish list as well.


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## jamwerks (Oct 11, 2018)

I've often wondered why the performance patch from Sacconi, and the Fanfare patch from the Brass hadn't be ported to their other libraries. Seems now the answer would be that they've been developing it into this beast, that looks and sounds fantastic. Lots of features with minimal controllers. This really puts SF (way) ahead of the others.

I'd totally accept paying for an "2.0" update of SCS and SSS with this patch. It would be awesome the be able to copy the midi between SSS, SCS & SSSt !!!


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## col (Oct 11, 2018)

Is it Spitfires plan to do the same sort of patch for cello/viola ?


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## desert (Oct 11, 2018)

Hey I use that same DAW as Andy, will my composition and violin mock up be as perfect as his?

This is incredible!


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Oct 11, 2018)

playz123 said:


> Sorry I don't know how you came to that conclusion





jaketanner said:


> How is it miles ahead?


It's *objectively *miles ahead (better ).

This update is great for owners of the product, but it's clearly not in the same league as Joshua Bell. But as Fixxer says, I wouldn't expect it to be as 1 is a dedicated solo instrument and one is a collection.


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## prodigalson (Oct 11, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> It's *objectively *miles ahead.
> 
> This update is great for owners of the product, but it's clearly not in the same league as Joshua Bell. But as Fixxer says, I wouldn't expect it to be as 1 is a dedicated solo instrument and one is a collection.



there are so many criteria that one could apply to assess how “Miles ahead” something is that opinion has to come into it at some point and so it can’t possibly be objective


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## prodigalson (Oct 11, 2018)

Even the term “miles ahead” is itself vague and subjective


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Oct 11, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> there are so many criteria that one could apply to assess how “Miles ahead” something is that opinion has to come into it at some point and so it can’t possibly be objective


1 criteria
Does it sound real?


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Oct 11, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> Even the term “miles ahead” is itself vague and subjective


Alright.

It's objectively better/superior.

Fixed


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## fixxer49 (Oct 11, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> Even the term “miles ahead” is itself vague and subjective


i like it better. how's that? 
someone asked, i answered. i gave my honest - subjective - assessment.
i'm actually putting both through their paces right now, and i stand by my original comment. 

But, since i don't write violin concertos for a living, and i use the other spitfire libs a LOT, the SF solo violin will get plenty of use.


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## prodigalson (Oct 11, 2018)

fixxer49 said:


> i like it better. how's that?
> someone asked, i answered. i gave my honest - subjective - assessment.
> i'm actually putting both through their paces right now, and i stand by my original comment.
> 
> But, since i don't write violin concertos for a living, and i use the other spitfire libs a LOT, the SF solo violin will get plenty of use.



Sorry but I wasn’t questioning using the term. It’s perfectly valid. I was addressing Simon Charles Hanna.


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## prodigalson (Oct 11, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Alright.
> 
> It's objectively better/superior.
> 
> Fixed



Lol, that’s still subjective. I’m not saying you’re wrong that it’s better, maybe i agree with you. I’m saying that you and no one else can say it’s objectively better because what anyone thinks makes something better is inherently subjective.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Oct 11, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> Lol, that’s still subjective. I’m not saying you’re wrong that it’s better, maybe i agree with you. I’m saying that you and no one else can say it’s objectively better because what anyone thinks makes something better is inherently subjective.


It's not a matter of taste, these instruments are attempting to mimic real-life. There is an observable, objective goal that doesn't rely on artistic opinion or subjective interpretation.

Simply put, this Violin doesn't sound real (even the formidable Andy B. can only achieve so much with it). JB Violin does or at least gets far closer. If composers think otherwise, I can only surmise they don't know what to listen for.


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## jaketanner (Oct 11, 2018)

fixxer49 said:


> don't get me wrong, i am ecstatic with this update from SF (see my earlier post), and the new patch is going to get a LOT of mileage. but the JB violin is a bona fide freak. maybe it just suits my style of playing. so i happen to _think_ it's better, i.e more robust, more playable, more realistic, and more powerful as a solo violin instrument. this is one person's opinion.



Duly noted. Just not sure it's miles ahead..lol SF has come a long way with this release, and I think they made a good choice to fit it into their existing solo library than as a separate instrument. For me, I don't need crazy amounts of articulations, but ease of playing and getting the point across...I've only used Cinesamples solos so far, but the SF looks to be a string Black Friday contender..lol


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## jaketanner (Oct 11, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> It's not a matter of taste, these instruments are attempting to mimic real-life. There is an observable, objective goal that doesn't rely on artistic opinion or subjective interpretation.
> 
> Simply put, this Violin doesn't sound real (even the formidable Andy B. can only achieve so much with it). JB Violin does or at least gets far closer. If composers think otherwise, I can only surmise they don't know what to listen for.



I think this all depends on the goal. If the goal is to never have it be replaced by a live player, and has to sound as believable as possible, then Jb is probably the way to go. If you just need it to mock up, but also have it sound "correct", then there's nothing wrong with SF's...But I am curious in your opinion, what is it that I can listen for to hear the realism between the two? I would like to know for my own reference...thanks.


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## Bill the Lesser (Oct 11, 2018)

It's heartening to know there are Andy Blaneys out there to push this stuff forward.

As VIs gain sophistication at this level, unfamiliar demands will be placed VI players, ie. a need to understand the source instruments in detail to create credible performances, not to mention considerable skill at the keyboard. Perhaps this will lead to a renaissance of musicianship for our kind.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Oct 11, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> I think this all depends on the goal. If the goal is to never have it be replaced by a live player, and has to sound as believable as possible, then Jb is probably the way to go. If you just need it to mock up, but also have it sound "correct", then there's nothing wrong with SF's


I can't argue with that.



jaketanner said:


> in your opinion, what is it that I can listen for to hear the realism between the two? I would like to know for my own reference...thanks.


It's a hard question to answer without having direct comparisons to show. It really boils down to a mix of "am I hearing chopped/crossfaded audio" and "this line sounds labored, bumpy and uncanny when it should sound effortless". 

In the video posted (it's all pretty unconvincing but solo strings are notoriously difficult to sample) but the trills at 0:17 are pretty poor.


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## prodigalson (Oct 11, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> It's not a matter of taste, these instruments are attempting to mimic real-life. There is an observable, objective goal that doesn't rely on artistic opinion or subjective interpretation.
> 
> Simply put, this Violin doesn't sound real (even the formidable Andy B. can only achieve so much with it). JB Violin does or at least gets far closer. If composers think otherwise, I can only surmise they don't know what to listen for.



A) whether something sounds real or not is, inherently, a matter of opinion. 95/100 people might think a sounds real but if 5 think b sounds more real so it is by definition subjective. 

B) Whether the final realism of a Library is the most important factor in assessing it’s ultimate value is, in itself, also subjective. The fact that some people prioritize other things makes it opinion and not fact.

I hope you can read my argument through the lens of a simple disagreement with whether any assessment of a library is opinion or fact and not as a disagreement with the merits of the assessment itself


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Oct 11, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> A) whether something sounds real or not is, inherently, a matter of opinion. 95/100 people might think a sounds real but if 5 think b sounds more real so it is by definition subjective.


You can have an opinion, doesn't make you right or correct (neither does being in the majority). One of those groups is correct and one is not.

The Earth being flat or round is not a down to subjective opinion just as a VI sounding real or not, is not. An untrained ear may not pick up on such inconsistencies, but doesn't make them right to say it sounds real. 


prodigalson said:


> B) Whether the final realism of a Library is the most important factor in assessing it’s ultimate value is, in itself, also subjective. The fact that some people prioritize other things makes it opinion and not fact.


That's fair enough, but I can't imagine many people buying a* solo strings library* for it's "sound manipulation" abilities. No I think realism is of the utmost importance here.


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## prodigalson (Oct 11, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> You can have an opinion, doesn't make you right or correct (neither does being in the majority).



Yes...exactly my point. 



> No I think realism is of the utmost importance



Totally and I agree with you....but that doesn’t make it fact.


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## Michayl Asaph (Oct 11, 2018)

I would love to see Spitfire package that patch alone and sell it as a Solo Violin only...
that would be really great..... I really don't need another solo strings library.


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## Soundhound (Oct 12, 2018)

The subjectivity of objectivity, clearly and fully posited:


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## MaxOctane (Oct 12, 2018)

I'm getting crackles on every single note attack. No other instruments loaded, other apps closed. 2016 MacBook 16GB memory. 

Anyone else?


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## prodigalson (Oct 12, 2018)

MaxOctane said:


> I'm getting crackles on every single note attack. No other instruments loaded, other apps closed. 2016 MacBook 16GB memory.
> 
> Anyone else?



try deactivating "utilise TM" on the main GUI


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## jbuhler (Oct 12, 2018)

MaxOctane said:


> I'm getting crackles on every single note attack. No other instruments loaded, other apps closed. 2016 MacBook 16GB memory.
> 
> Anyone else?


I'm working on a 4Gz i7 iMac (late 2015) with 32GB. I don't get noise when used alone but in context it initially causes pops and clicks even though none of the CPU meters from Activity Monitor were showing overload (none of the cores were above the 50% point). But I did notice Logic was showing a background CPU level as high. When I clicked on the Logic CPU meter showing the cores, the overall level strangely went down significantly with only a few momentary spikes in one of the cores and the number of pops and click correlated, not surprisingly, with the CPU spikes. Hard to know if that reduction in pops and clicks is because more of the samples were loaded into RAM or what. But if I close the Logic CPU monitor I seem to get more pops and clicks. That makes no sense to me and I'm tempted to chalk it up to spurious correlation.


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## Leon Willett (Oct 14, 2018)

have they created similarly-playable patches for any ensemble strings?


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## jaketanner (Oct 14, 2018)

Leon Willett said:


> have they created similarly-playable patches for any ensemble strings?



Aside from the performance legato patches and the legato performance, two different ones, I’m not sure they will. This was a completely different recording, not a rehash of the playability, so they’d have to re-record all Ensemble Strings to make that happen.


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## Leon Willett (Oct 14, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> Aside from the performance legato patches and the legato performance, two different ones, I’m not sure they will. This was a completely different recording, not a rehash of the playability, so they’d have to re-record all Ensemble Strings to make that happen.



ok thanks for your answer!


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## Jdiggity1 (Oct 14, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> Aside from the performance legato patches and the legato performance, two different ones, I’m not sure they will. This was a completely different recording, not a rehash of the playability, so they’d have to re-record all Ensemble Strings to make that happen.


I think you'll find there are no new recordings. It's the same set of samples with a new script.


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## prodigalson (Oct 14, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> Aside from the performance legato patches and the legato performance, two different ones, I’m not sure they will. This was a completely different recording, not a rehash of the playability, so they’d have to re-record all Ensemble Strings to make that happen.



Where did u get the idea this was a new recording?


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## jaketanner (Oct 14, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> Where did u get the idea this was a new recording?



The recorded the virtuoso violin as a separate patch, Did I misunderstand the whole walkthrough? This did not seem like some scripting, but an entirely new recording of the the violin by Jack Liebeck. They also added articulations...I mean if it's not new, why the hell didn't they just do this from the start?


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## prodigalson (Oct 14, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> The recorded the virtuoso violin as a separate patch, Did I misunderstand the whole walkthrough? This did not seem like some scripting, but an entirely new recording of the the violin by Jack Liebeck. They also added articulations...I mean if it's not new, why the hell didn't they just do this from the start?



I don’t agree. They just re scripted the virtuoso violin legato using samples that already existed within the virtuoso folder of articulations. The library already had all these articulations recorded by Jack Liebeck


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## jaketanner (Oct 14, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> Where did u get the idea this was a new recording?



I am looking at the walkthrough again, and I think you might be right..it's not a new recording...this is a bummer. I thought they added the recording with new techniques..instead it's just better programming? No wonder why people are saying that JB violin is better...LOL My bad then.


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## jaketanner (Oct 14, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> I don’t agree. They just re scripted the virtuoso violin legato using samples that already existed within the virtuoso folder of articulations. The library already had all these articulations recorded by Jack Liebeck



Starting to see that...bummed out. I got all excited..lol. I heard that the legato wasn't very good with the whole solo strings to begin with, hence why I thought they went back and re-recorded a better one...so then will they do this to the other instruments within the library is the question?


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## Jdiggity1 (Oct 14, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> Starting to see that...bummed out. I got all excited..lol. I heard that the legato wasn't very good with the whole solo strings to begin with, hence why I thought they went back and re-recorded a better one...so then will they do this to the other instruments within the library is the question?


As pointed out by @thesteelydane in the other thread, the necessary transition samples exist for the cello, but not the others. So... make of that what you will.


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## prodigalson (Oct 14, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> Starting to see that...bummed out. I got all excited..lol. I heard that the legato wasn't very good with the whole solo strings to begin with, hence why I thought they went back and re-recorded a better one...so then will they do this to the other instruments within the library is the question?



I think you’re overestimating the role of recording in the creation of playable legato patches. I think Editing and scripting is where the magic happens

(Provided they recorded transition samples)


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## jaketanner (Oct 14, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> I think you’re overestimating the role of recording in the creation of playable legato patches. I think Editing and scripting is where the magic happens
> 
> (Provided they recorded transition samples)



Agreed. Is the sound of the virtuoso violin the same as the standard violin patch? Or did they also improve the sound as well? I only have Cinesamples Solo strings, so I can't compare these. I am considering getting them as a future purchase to fill out my SF Chamber Strings.


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## prodigalson (Oct 14, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> Agreed. Is the sound of the virtuoso violin the same as the standard violin patch? Or did they also improve the sound as well? I only have Cinesamples Solo strings, so I can't compare these. I am considering getting them as a future purchase to fill out my SF Chamber Strings.



It depends on what you mean by standard violin. There are 3 violins in the library (virtuoso, first desk and progressive). It’s my understanding the new total performance features the same samples as the virtuoso violin


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## jaketanner (Oct 14, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> It depends on what you mean by standard violin. There are 3 violins in the library (virtuoso, first desk and progressive). It’s my understanding the new total performance features the same samples as the virtuoso violin



Ah..so there was already a Virtuoso violin sample? I didn't know that, that's why I thought it was a new recording. So that makes sense then, it was probably re-scripted. If you have the Chamber Strings, how does the solo total performance patch differ from their "legato performance" patche? Is it that it's more than just legato, but the same concept? Thanks for your time.


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## prodigalson (Oct 14, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> Ah..so there was already a Virtuoso violin sample? I didn't know that, that's why I thought it was a new recording. So that makes sense then, it was probably re-scripted. If you have the Chamber Strings, how does the solo total performance patch differ from their "legato performance" patche? Is it that it's more than just legato, but the same concept? Thanks for your time.



IIRC, The performance legatos in chamber strings are several legato speeds and spiccatos accessible without key switching via speed of playing and velocity etc. The new total performance patch takes that same concept to a whole new level by incorporating more legato types, more varieties of short notes, different rates of vibrato and tremolo all accessible from one patch without key switches.


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## jaketanner (Oct 14, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> IIRC, The performance legatos in chamber strings are several legato speeds and spiccatos accessible without key switching via speed of playing and velocity etc. The new total performance patch takes that same concept to a whole new level by incorporating more legato types, more varieties of short notes, different rates of vibrato and tremolo all accessible from one patch without key switches.



Got it..so it would be possible for them to do this type of patch for their other libraries...I really hope so. Thanks again for your time..


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## jbuhler (Oct 14, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> Got it..so it would be possible for them to do this type of patch for their other libraries...I really hope so. Thanks again for your time..


If you look in the samples folder, some of the instruments—virtuoso violin and cello in particular—have more samples available. Some of these samples do not seem to be used at the moment (e.g., progressive violin has legatos samples but there is no legato instrument for it), cello has most of the same legato articulations as the virtuoso violin but currently only has the basic legato patch. So, no, they can't do this with all the instruments since the instruments have to have the right legato transitions (e.g., fast runs, fast legato) and, if I'm understanding how the patch is working, other articulations like ricochet.


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## ism (Oct 14, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> Agreed. Is the sound of the virtuoso violin the same as the standard violin patch? Or did they also improve the sound as well? I only have Cinesamples Solo strings, so I can't compare these. I am considering getting them as a future purchase to fill out my SF Chamber Strings.



The two legato violins, while they sound great together, are, expressively, completely different beasts.

The "first chair" doesn't play very fast, but it has amazing textures and allows you to craft phrases unlike any other violin I know, it just really hits a sweet spot for me. It's not a smooth as the Joshua Bell for instance, nor really as fast. But for 80% of what I actually want a violin for its become my go to violin. I've been posting examples of what it can do on other threads, so I'll spare everyone more of my noodlings here. I tend to think of it not so much as my 'first chair' violin as my 'neo-classical' - expressive, textural violin.

The virtuosic violin is really something else entirely, I've spent much of the weekend creating mock ups with it and when they say virtuosic, they mean really *#$%ing virtuosic - I've posted a rough WIP mock up on the other thread with some early results. And I'm still not sure I've scratched the surface. It has innovations in progressive vibrato (using Kontakt time machine), and other things like arpeggios. There is great depth to this instrument. In fact I think the marketing, if anything, undersells it. (As opposed to the first chairs violin, which the marketing definitely undersells).

In comparison, the Joshua Bell, by design, is more pristine, and at some tempos is going to be smoother, in they way you want you mozart concertos to be smooth, in particular because of things like rebowing, but because of its ethos in general. Each have their own sweet spots, and can do things the other can't. But they're very much in the same league.


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## thesteelydane (Oct 15, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> I am looking at the walkthrough again, and I think you might be right..it's not a new recording...this is a bummer. I thought they added the recording with new techniques..instead it's just better programming? No wonder why people are saying that JB violin is better...LOL My bad then.



The fast transition samples where always there, I looked in the samples folder on release day. It just wasn't implemented until the update.


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## Werty (Oct 16, 2018)

It sounds good, but why do you compare it only to Joshua Bell violin, and not to Virharmonic violin?


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## BezO (Oct 16, 2018)

Am I understanding the presets correctly? Only legato articulations for 3 instruments, and they're separate presets from the rest of the articulations?


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## Pablocrespo (Oct 16, 2018)

I wish there was a way to tweak the velocity thresholds for lousy keyboards like mine!


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## amorphosynthesis (Oct 16, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> looking at the walkthrough again, and I think you might be right..it's not a new recording...this is a bummer. I thought they added the recording with new techniques..instead it's just better


I can't be sure but due to a installing mistake I had to move manually each and every kontakt sample,and while 9 out of 10 already existed to the samples folder,there were a few non pre-existed samples that was downloaded...so I could assume that some samples are brand new.the point is that Spitfire audio listened to their customers(one of these were myself) that expressed disappointment for the absence of performance patches to their newer libraries.I can only wish that they will continue to do so....


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## ism (Oct 16, 2018)

Werty said:


> It sounds good, but why do you compare it only to Joshua Bell violin, and not to Virharmonic violin?




I suppose the expressiveness of the instrument is closer to JB than Vir. You have pre-recorder vibrato and dynamics with Virharmonic, but virtually no control over the shape of the vibrato. JB has a couple of recorded d/crescendos, but no capacity to shape dynamics of a note (beyond volume), and a mixture of simulated and recorded vibrato. So in this sense its closer in its conception to the Spitfire instrument

All three are best absolutely in class. It's just a question of which class suites a particular style.


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## ism (Oct 16, 2018)

Pablocrespo said:


> I wish there was a way to tweak the velocity thresholds for lousy keyboards like mine!



Right in the spitfire UI within Kontakt, you can select a custom velocity curve and set everything below 19 to 0. This gives expands the range from 0-9 to 0-19, which helps a bit. (Although anything more than 19 and you need to consider how it will impact the legato).


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## Pablocrespo (Oct 16, 2018)

I will try that, but a patch with diferent thresholds established under the hood would be nice.


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## ism (Oct 16, 2018)

Pablocrespo said:


> I will try that, but a patch with diferent thresholds established under the hood would be nice.



Agree. But I do find, with a bit of practice, the 0-19 fix quite workable, if not wholly ideal.


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## Pablocrespo (Oct 16, 2018)

don´t you get more portamento transitions that way?


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## ism (Oct 16, 2018)

Pablocrespo said:


> don´t you get more portamento transitions that way?



Portamento triggering goes up to 19, which is why I suggest 19. Any higher and you would need to thing about how it would affect your portamento.

I don't see anything in the manual that would otherwise be affected by this change, except the two functions that use 0-9 velocity transition (ie the spicatto trigger threshold and the lowest progressive vibrato setting).


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## idematoa (Oct 28, 2018)

*Portamento used especially...*
*




*


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## mventura (Dec 21, 2018)

Anybody getting this as part of the wish list deal? Anyone think they will create a virtuoso patch for cello since the violin virtuoso patch is just a re-scripted version of the violin legato patch? If so this seems like a really good deal (even without the wish list special).


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## jbuhler (Dec 21, 2018)

mventura said:


> Anybody getting this as part of the wish list deal? Anyone think they will create a virtuoso patch for cello since the violin virtuoso patch is just a re-scripted version of the violin legato patch? If so this seems like a really good deal (even without the wish list special).


The virtuoso violin is not a rescripted version of the violin legato patch. They are completely different sample sets, and I think different players. The cello has the samples to make a patch similar to the virtuoso violin, but in that case the cello will be a rescripted version of the original cello legato patch. The bass also has the samples to make a legato instrument, though they have not yet released the legato bass instrument.


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## jaketanner (Dec 21, 2018)

mventura said:


> Anybody getting this as part of the wish list deal? Anyone think they will create a virtuoso patch for cello since the violin virtuoso patch is just a re-scripted version of the violin legato patch? If so this seems like a really good deal (even without the wish list special).



I’ve been looking for a solo violin and cello. But if I can get this library at 40% off, I might go for it instead of Emotional violin and cello.


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## ag75 (Dec 21, 2018)

Well this just went on the Wishlist.


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## jamwerks (Dec 21, 2018)

On my list as well!


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## ism (Dec 21, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> The virtuoso violin is not a rescripted version of the violin legato patch. They are completely different sample sets, and I think different players. The cello has the samples to make a patch similar to the virtuoso violin, but in that case the cello will be a rescripted version of the original cello legato patch. The bass also has the samples to make a legato instrument, though they have not yet released the legato bass instrument.



I'll amplify that the two legato instruments are very distinct instruments in their own right.

I tend to think of the "first chairs" violin as the "Neo classical violin" wonderfully textured, less pristinely classical (although I find I need to tweak the dynamics a bit to be able to really bring out how great the p layer is)

And similarly I tend to think of the "Virtuosic" violin as the "Somewhere between Joshua Bell and Arvo Part" violin. For reasons I don't think I can quite fully articulate yet, but that's just how it feels.


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## jaketanner (Dec 22, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> The virtuoso violin is not a rescripted version of the violin legato patch. They are completely different sample sets, and I think different players. The cello has the samples to make a patch similar to the virtuoso violin, but in that case the cello will be a rescripted version of the original cello legato patch. The bass also has the samples to make a legato instrument, though they have not yet released the legato bass instrument.



Are you certain it’s just not receipted and is indeed a totally different sample? It’s not what is led to believe. Would be great if it’s true for sure. It’s also on my list.


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## jbuhler (Dec 22, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> Are you certain it’s just not receipted and is indeed a totally different sample? It’s not what is led to believe. Would be great if it’s true for sure. It’s also on my list.


Yes, they are completely different samples. That's true of the progressive violin as well, which is yet another sample set. So there are three different violins, two of which have legato (one of which has the extraordinary performance legato script for the virtuoso violin). 







According to the website the violinists are Jack Liebeck (violin - Virtuoso), Clio Gould (violin - 1st Desk), and Thomas Gould (violin - Progressive).


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## jaketanner (Dec 22, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, they are completely different samples. That's true of the progressive violin as well, which is yet another sample set. So there are three different violins, two of which have legato (one of which has the extraordinary performance legato script for the virtuoso violin).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Makes the decision a bit easier then. Cool, thank you.


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## ism (Dec 22, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> Are you certain it’s just not receipted and is indeed a totally different sample? It’s not what is led to believe. Would be great if it’s true for sure. It’s also on my list.



It’s also pretty clear that the performances of the notes are very different when you play them. They feel very different - and yet somehow blend easily.


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## jaketanner (Dec 22, 2018)

ism said:


> It’s also pretty clear that the performances of the notes are very different when you play them. They feel very different - and yet somehow blend easily.



You are happy with the solo strings? Do you feel they would be good for exposed solo work? Or better as first chairs for Chamber Strings?


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## ism (Dec 22, 2018)

Yes I love them, they hit just the right sweet spot that I was missing with other instruments. so very happy.

But the question is do they hit the spots that you need them to hit.

I’ve been trying to write a long answer to the question you asked on that other thread ... I won’t promise to finish it tonight, but i’ll try to get part one by tomorrow. Because the obvious answer is ‘it depends what you want to write’. But then the interesting question becomes how to even write about the aesthetic space that these instruments occupy, both collectively and individually ... so working on that ...


Have you listened to the Andy Blakey demo of the virtuosic violin? Maybe also my ( very amateur ) noodings with the first chair Vl, or the ( very rough) mock up I attempted of Fratres with with Virtuosic violin? Do any of these sound close to the space you want to write in?


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## jaketanner (Dec 22, 2018)

ism said:


> Yes I love them, they hit just the right sweet spot that I was missing with other instruments. so very happy.
> 
> But the question is do they hit the spots that you need them to hit.
> 
> ...



I've listened to the Andy track. I do like it. I like the tone as well, not too "woody", and not too "pristine", like JB's violin...I am not writing classical music, so I do prefer a sound with a bit of an edge to it. 

My reasoning for these is two-fold. I want them (the violin especially), as exposed solos, and also as first chairs to my Chamber Strings. I also have the Cinestrings and their solo library as well, and I like the combination, but the Cinesolo strings are not good for exposed soloing. So if these can do double duty, that would be awesome.


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## ism (Dec 22, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> I've listened to the Andy track. I do like it. I like the tone as well, not too "woody", and not too "pristine", like JB's violin...I am not writing classical music, so I do prefer a sound with a bit of an edge to it.



Yes, that probably a better way to express what I mean by the ‘Somewhere between Joshua Bell and Arvo Part’ violin, now that I think of it.

I think it’s easy to answer the question about how they do as first chairs also. Which is - the sonority is the sin quo non of this library, and it mixes amazingly well with SCS, OACE, SStS etc. 

However, it isn’t the same concept as SCSS, designed to just cut and past the midi data from your main string lines. At least some of the time, you will need to put effort into crafting the arcs. I guess for professionals on a deadline this is a downside. But it also reflects that this isn’t a ‘plonkability first’ library, and I always like to craft these myself anyway.


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## jbuhler (Dec 22, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> I've listened to the Andy track. I do like it. I like the tone as well, not too "woody", and not too "pristine", like JB's violin...I am not writing classical music, so I do prefer a sound with a bit of an edge to it.
> 
> My reasoning for these is two-fold. I want them (the violin especially), as exposed solos, and also as first chairs to my Chamber Strings. I also have the Cinestrings and their solo library as well, and I like the combination, but the Cinesolo strings are not good for exposed soloing. So if these can do double duty, that would be awesome.


They work really well as first chairs if both SCS and SSS. You can basically use the same midi or put them in a multi and balance them. They also work really well for spot solos in orchestral writing without to much fussing. 

They work well for exposed solos too, but that takes practice handling the vibrato in connection with the modwheel. You likely won’t sit down and in one pass lay down the part. You have to mess with moving in and out of vibrato for the regular legato instruments. 

The virtuouso instrument is a bit better with respect to vibrato, since it is based around the progressive vibrato longs, but is fussier with articulations since a spiccato is generally mapped onto the beginning of any note that doesn’t have a legato transition. I can only reliable trigger the fantastic ricochet articulation by editing the midi to a suitably short duration.


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## jaketanner (Dec 22, 2018)

Thank you @ism and @jbuhler for the insights. Let's see what special sale comes my way during the wish list. I qualify for their EDU discount anyway (30%), so if it's better than that, then it's a go.


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## jbuhler (Dec 22, 2018)

ism said:


> Yes, that probably a better way to express what I mean by the ‘Somewhere between Joshua Bell and Arvo Part’ violin, now that I think of it.
> 
> I think it’s easy to answer the question about how they do as first chairs also. Which is - the sonority is the sin quo non of this library, and it mixes amazingly well with SCS, OACE, SStS etc.
> 
> However, it isn’t the same concept as SCSS, designed to just cut and past the midi data from your main string lines. At least some of the time, you will need to put effort into crafting the arcs. I guess for professionals on a deadline this is a downside. But it also reflects that this isn’t a ‘plonkability first’ library, and I always like to craft these myself anyway.


I’ve found it layers in well with SCS and SSS once I balance the outputs. I rarely find I have to change the midi. And when I do it’s usually because I’ve been lazy with the section strings, especially the vibrato.


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## ism (Dec 22, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> I’ve found it layers in well with SCS and SSS once I balance the outputs. I rarely find I have to change the midi. And when I do it’s usually because I’ve been lazy with the section strings, especially the vibrato.



I’ve been using it with StS, and find there’s some difference in the range, so maybe SStS is a bit different (or maybe I’m just doing something wrong, equally plausible). But also the vibrato, well it’s much less important for first chairs than exposed, but i find that thinking about vibrato always repays attention - with the exception of the virtuosic violin set to progressive vib - though even then there are times when there are nice effects to be had from not using the progressive vib.


But also, perhaps I’m also not always them as ‘first chairs’ in the stictest sense of the term. I like a the occasional bit of extra expressiveness in the first chair to stick now and again.


And yeah - the arpegio (I assume this is the same as ricochet) legato is amazing - but only kicks for lines way faster that I can play.


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## jbuhler (Dec 22, 2018)

ism said:


> I’ve been using it with StS, and find there’s some difference in the range, so maybe SStS is a bit different (or maybe I’m just doing something wrong, equally plausible). But also the vibrato, well it’s much less important for first chairs than exposed, but i find that thinking about vibrato always repays attention - with the exception of the virtuosic violin set to progressive vib - though even then there are times when there are nice effects to be had from not using the progressive vib.
> 
> 
> But also, perhaps I’m also not always them as ‘first chairs’ in the stictest sense of the term. I like a the occasional bit of extra expressiveness in the first chair to stick now and again.
> ...


I don't (yet) have SStS, and given that it's not the big hall for SStS, it's definitely possible that they are not calibrated quite the same. Yes, if I want the first chair players to stick out a bit more here and there, rather than adding to the detail of the section, I have to shift the midi.


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## ism (Dec 23, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> You are happy with the solo strings? Do you feel they would be good for exposed solo work? Or better as first chairs for Chamber Strings?



Cross posting, but here's a new experiment with the virtuoso Vl




Along with another long pontification, on this thread:

https://vi-control.net/community/th...nal-violin-dislikes.77896/page-4#post-4329552


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