# The Empire´s secret Base



## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 2, 2016)

Hi Guys, 

Here is short piece that I had written yesterday afternoon after my regular soundtrack work. It was deliberately done without grid and click, so practically on a blank empty canvas. Inspiration for the sound of the mockup came through listening to the old sw laserdics. 



Hope you enjoy and feedback is always appreciated. 

Best Greetings,

Alex


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## TSWO (Dec 2, 2016)

Wow! If this took you an after-work afternoon to pull off I can only say... WOW. 

The thematic material sounds really interesting as well. If you expand-elaborate on that you could have a really awesome track!

(Loved the glissandos in the strings near the end!)


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 3, 2016)

TSWO said:


> Wow! If this took you an after-work afternoon to pull off I can only say... WOW.
> 
> The thematic material sounds really interesting as well. If you expand-elaborate on that you could have a really awesome track!
> 
> (Loved the glissandos in the strings near the end!)



It was mostly done out of the box, here and there also improvised, still I tried to establish that motif at 47 second starting, which was featured incomplete even before in some or another way. Yeah, I could or should expand the ideas. Thank you for the feedback, much appreciated.


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## zacnelson (Dec 3, 2016)

Fantastic work Alexander, one of my favourite tracks of yours. I adore the vintage dry orchestral sound, it's so warm and nostalgic. Also the dynamics are tremendous, I love how you brought out the brass so strongly in the peak moments. I enjoy how the timpani has that muddy old-school muffled sound, just how I like it! How did you do those amazing string runs at 0:56?


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## Jorgakis (Dec 4, 2016)

Cool composition and great use of brass and string fx! I suppose this is CSS with Berlin Strings and Brass??


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 4, 2016)

zacnelson said:


> Fantastic work Alexander, one of my favourite tracks of yours. I adore the vintage dry orchestral sound, it's so warm and nostalgic. Also the dynamics are tremendous, I love how you brought out the brass so strongly in the peak moments. I enjoy how the timpani has that muddy old-school muffled sound, just how I like it! How did you do those amazing string runs at 0:56?



Hi Zac,

thanks for the great feedback..
For those glissandi runs I have the 1st Violins playable glissando patch from Berlin Strings. For the rest unmeasured trills and runs from CSS. For all the conventional String Arrangements I used a mix of CSS and 8dio Agitato packages. For instance in the intro I layered the legato 1st Vlns from CSS with the Mancini Articulation Violins from 8dio. Works pretty cool imo.



Jorgakis said:


> Cool composition and great use of brass and string fx! I suppose this is CSS with Berlin Strings and Brass??



Hi there,

Cool you like it.
Yes, almost right, but I used mostly adventure brass and for the soloing or layering Hollywood Brass. I didn´t layer CSS with BS, but with 8dio Agitato Violins, only exception are the 1st Violins Glissandi where I used BS for.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 5, 2016)

ji eff said:


> Don't know why this image comes to mind...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bart Simpson on Mars? Don´t know this episode though I am not that much familiar with the Simpsons :D

Thanks for chiming in. 

PS: I have composed a few more bars today afternoon and replaced the file..


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## zacnelson (Dec 5, 2016)

Great work Alexander, I love the new additions, they extend the track in wonderful ways. It amazes me that a composition like this doesn't have 10 pages of conversation about it, and yet that The Force Awakens trailer thread from last year had hundreds of responses. Some personal highlights for me are the forceful strings at around 1:02, there is a small moment there which not only a brilliant compositional idea, but I find it astounding the way you were able to get the samples to achieve that impact and texture. Any tips on how you did that?!

Also, that marvellous ascending woodwinds and cello part at 2:11 really caught my attention, it was beautifully executed and lead into the next part so well.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 6, 2016)

zacnelson said:


> Great work Alexander, I love the new additions, they extend the track in wonderful ways. It amazes me that a composition like this doesn't have 10 pages of conversation about it, and yet that The Force Awakens trailer thread from last year had hundreds of responses. Some personal highlights for me are the forceful strings at around 1:02, there is a small moment there which not only a brilliant compositional idea, but I find it astounding the way you were able to get the samples to achieve that impact and texture. Any tips on how you did that?!
> 
> Also, that marvellous ascending woodwinds and cello part at 2:11 really caught my attention, it was beautifully executed and lead into the next part so well.




I think my track has not that strong thematic original Star wars motifs, like the Vader March, lukes Theme or the one from Leia. The Force Awakens Trailerscore was having that and reharmonizing them in an interesting and very sophisticated way which of course impresses people much more when somebody trying to cook a bit his own soup like me, but knowing he is no Williams at all. And the interest at that time was pretty big in general because everybody was eager to know how the new star wars is going to be like.
Plus I have have no featured dedicated video what I was writing too, so it is just plain music without any given reason. Sure I had a story on paper but I wasn´t sure to write it down here because I want to leave a bit freedom to anyone to feel his own story and vision.
And just soundwise , I think the mockup aimed a very different approach in terms of realism (much more room, much brighter and more stereo, plus some live instruments in it) and what it wanted to achieve, lots of things were done there very clever. 

To your questions: 

At 1:02 the strings, in particular the Cello Ensemble, Basses and Violas are just playing the figure with a mix of Staccato, Staccatissimo and Sfz articulations. What makes the Line probably the way you like it is the way that the lick was performed first on the piano more or less accurate. Then I used a mix of different velocities for loudness and those articulations like shown in the picture below. Doublebass are doubling the Cellos in the same range, while the Violas are playing an octave above. All 3 sections were performed individually to prevent that they sound to similiar and that they don´t start exactly all the same time.


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## zacnelson (Dec 6, 2016)

Cool, thanks for the generous explanation Alexander! It's certainly educational to listen to your music and study it with this added information!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 6, 2016)

zacnelson said:


> Cool, thanks for the generous explanation Alexander! It's certainly educational to listen to your music and study it with this added information!



Always a pleasure to help, mate.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 8, 2016)

Hej Guys,
I had a bit time yesterday and today and so I created 1 1/2 minute more of music, also another lyrical part, which was intended as the first one to take a short breath..from all that brassy loud music. You can skip if you like to 2:12 min.

Here is the stuff. What do you think of the new parts?


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## PeterJCroissant (Dec 8, 2016)

its so very well done. Id love to see a video walk through on how you made it..


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Dec 8, 2016)

Well done Alexander. Amazingly realistic orchestration! Great work.


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## zacnelson (Dec 8, 2016)

Very enjoyable! I really like the rhythmic style at 2:48 and the sunny mood change at 2:18. I'm looking forward to your next version, to see where you finish it all off!

One tiny suggestion though; I thought the violins between 2:15 and 2:34 sounded a bit unpolished and fake. Especially the ending note at 2:33 and the shorter notes at 2:22. It was better around 2:26-2:28


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 8, 2016)

zacnelson said:


> Very enjoyable! I really like the rhythmic style at 2:48 and the sunny mood change at 2:18. I'm looking forward to your next version, to see where you finish it all off!
> 
> One tiny suggestion though; I thought the violins between 2:15 and 2:34 sounded a bit unpolished and fake. Especially the ending note at 2:33 and the shorter notes at 2:22. It was better around 2:26-2:28



Thanks for chiming in. To be honest, I think the whole part is a bunch good will crap (just listening now), but yes, you are right. I think also the parts needs a bit more refinement..just composition wise..


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 9, 2016)

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Well done Alexander. Amazingly realistic orchestration! Great work.


Thank you, Tatiana.



PeterJCroissant said:


> its so very well done. Id love to see a video walk through on how you made it..



Hi Peter, thank you a lot. And a cool idea.
Though I need to get a more modern camera (still have only an old one which is ok for skype session). Maybe I ask my drummer if he can borrow me for a few days his action cam.



zacnelson said:


> Very enjoyable! I really like the rhythmic style at 2:48 and the sunny mood change at 2:18. I'm looking forward to your next version, to see where you finish it all off!
> 
> One tiny suggestion though; I thought the violins between 2:15 and 2:34 sounded a bit unpolished and fake. Especially the ending note at 2:33 and the shorter notes at 2:22. It was better around 2:26-2:28



I reworked the violins in that part today morning, hope that they do sound better now..


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## mc_deli (Dec 9, 2016)

Alex, the track is great. This thread is great. Maximum respect.


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## zacnelson (Dec 9, 2016)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Though I need to get a more modern camera


When people make walkthroughs they use software that captures the screen, it doesn't require a camera at all.


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## zacnelson (Dec 9, 2016)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I reworked the violins in that part today morning, hope that they do sound better now..


Oh yes it's beautiful now!!! I'd love to know what you did to make it sound so much better? This track is just marvellous.


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## Rex282 (Dec 9, 2016)

this took you all afternoon!!...lazybones......and btw..loved it.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 13, 2016)

Rex282 said:


> this took you all afternoon!!...lazybones......and btw..loved it.



Na, overall it took a bit longer, the initial 2 minutes took an afternoon last week.

Anyways I re-worked the whole mix / master from scratch and here it is the comparison from the old file and the new one. My goal was to achieve more detail and clarity and more headroom and punch, but still keeping the warm character of setting. I wasn´t so happy with the old mix.

Feedback is welcome by everybody.

New Version:



Old Version:



Thanks a lot to @zacnelson for his ears and a/b comparison listening, that helped me a lot.


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## zacnelson (Dec 13, 2016)

Sounds marvellous! It was a privilege to help


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## Cass Hansen (Dec 15, 2016)

Absolutely a Great track Alexander! Been gone a while here so I have to get caught up. I’m not usually a fan for such a dry sound stage as this, mainly because I listen to most of my music in concert halls, live with lots of ambient reverberation, not on films which of course use filming studios. But you might make me a convert yet! I really do like the sound stage you developed on this track. It’s quite inspiring.

I would like to know more on how you achieved this. As I recall, use tend to use mostly mic mixes and cut EQ here and there to achieve your sound stage with little reverb added. Do you use mostly close mics here with some tree and do you use a positioning software to place instruments or not. I know this is a mix of libraries but they do sound like they are on the same stage together which I know is not an easy task.

In my opinion, you’re being too hard on yourself here. This is a great track with a very nice forceful theme and nice powerful, dissonant subtext surrounding it while injecting short blasts of interlude motifs for color such as the strings at 1:05 and other places. I rate this track so far very highly!

I’m hard press to come up with any negatives and I’m not sure you’re looking for opinion type feedback, so the following is just my own personal opinion on things I would have done differently.

I would cut the opening upward scale intro. It seems superfluous to me. Start on the uptake where the harp makes its arpeggio run to the first beat. It would make a cleaner start.

The only other problem is at 2:17 with the strings.

I know what you are going for here. A break from all that loud brass and action. However, this track is really not long enough for this type of break nor is the section itself long enough to establish a successful transition. Overall excursion into this major, lighthearted string bridge doesn’t really fit your track as such. When I listen to JW tracks from Star Wars that contain the same style and ominous overtones that you selected , ( such as “Imperial attack” from episode 4,) he doesn’t really interrupt or change the tone/mood over the 6 plus minutes of the track. There are short interludes, yes, but they blend in, not interrupt. Save these type of interludes for tracks that are not so dark and foreboding or in tracks that are longer and are telling a story within one track. To do so here just doesn’t mix well IMO. It’s pulling down the power and the effectiveness of the track. Of course it’s obvious you are not done with the track either. So all of this might change.

_(I suppose, If you do want to keep it in, then you might consider changing it to a minor key and slowly blend it back into the action. Or keep it in a major key, but layer dark undertones (low ww, brass, bass drum rolls) beneath the strings, then lengthen it, and then change it to minor mode while transitioning back into your main theme.)_

On the flipside, when you did this again at the end of your track, (the quiet interlude,) it turned out excellent and does blend very well in context with the rest of the track. That you did exquisitely. 

Overall, Really enjoyed this one!

Cass


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 16, 2016)

Cass Hansen said:


> Absolutely a Great track Alexander! Been gone a while here so I have to get caught up. I’m not usually a fan for such a dry sound stage as this, mainly because I listen to most of my music in concert halls, live with lots of ambient reverberation, not on films which of course use filming studios. But you might make me a convert yet! I really do like the sound stage you developed on this track. It’s quite inspiring.
> 
> I would like to know more on how you achieved this. As I recall, use tend to use mostly mic mixes and cut EQ here and there to achieve your sound stage with little reverb added. Do you use mostly close mics here with some tree and do you use a positioning software to place instruments or not. I know this is a mix of libraries but they do sound like they are on the same stage together which I know is not an easy task.
> 
> ...



You know Cass, first of all thanks for the very informative and to point feedback here. I will go later and try to explain to you a bit about the process of that mockup. (guess around the weekend I am going to answer your questions).
I think that it would be better to switch those two parts. This light hearted motif at 2 min something could be featured more at the end or much later. What to you think of that? I also kicked out that rising short intro:


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## Cass Hansen (Dec 17, 2016)

Yes! Didn’t even think of putting it at the end, but that is a great idea. I like it, it makes sense. “*After fighting the enemy, battle or whatever discordant scene your portraying here, they finally leave and you are safe --for the moment and survived this round of fighting,* type scenario. It would conclude the end of the track nicely.. But what you have done already is a huge improvement IMO and you could just leave it at that. It’s not distracting anymore but gives a nice break; but is still unsettling, and lets one know it’s not over yet.

I look forward to your tips on how you came up with the virtual stage on this. Busy season I know, so whenever you get the chance, no rush. However, I did send my gratitude by carrier pigeon your way this morning so I wouldn’t forget to say thanks.

I think we got off to a rocky start a few months back, but I want to let you know that I do have the most genuine admiration for your compositional skills and creative talent. Especially the latter. Like many here, you have exceptional orchestrating and rendering skills which comes by lots of hard work, and it shows. But also you have that undefinable “spark” within you which allows you to be so creative and memorable in your writing; quite musical and inspiring in fact. I have no doubt that you will become a top notch film composer in the not too distant future. Until then, I’ll be enjoying your posts as you ascend in that direction.

Cass

PS I do like that beginning now. You mysteriously glide/fade into it, not knowing there’s trouble on the horrizon! You’re telling a great story here, even if it’s not storyboarded or on film yet!


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## cheul (Dec 17, 2016)

A walkthrough of the orchestration and also a bit of insight of how you approached the composition would be very interesting !


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 20, 2016)

cheul said:


> A walkthrough of the orchestration and also a bit of insight of how you approached the composition would be very interesting !





Cass Hansen said:


> Yes! Didn’t even think of putting it at the end, but that is a great idea. I like it, it makes sense. “*After fighting the enemy, battle or whatever discordant scene your portraying here, they finally leave and you are safe --for the moment and survived this round of fighting,* type scenario. It would conclude the end of the track nicely.. But what you have done already is a huge improvement IMO and you could just leave it at that. It’s not distracting anymore but gives a nice break; but is still unsettling, and lets one know it’s not over yet.
> 
> I look forward to your tips on how you came up with the virtual stage on this. Busy season I know, so whenever you get the chance, no rush. However, I did send my gratitude by carrier pigeon your way this morning so I wouldn’t forget to say thanks.
> 
> ...



Hi Guys,
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. Also you Cass, I remember we had some rough start with one of your tracks, but believe me, I didn´t meant it in a bad way, sometimes I am bit too impulsive with my feedback. In the future I will try to improve that critic as I think you are yourself an excellent composer (what I heard also on your sc recently).
Sorry, that I didn´t took time for the answers here, I was pretty packed with comissioned work again, also mocking up from Sousa - Stars and Stripes.
But I will have more time at the end of this week to explain more about the orchestration process. I did render out single Stems of the Secret Base track and did some piano reductions for you, so that it is easy to understand how I my workflow is.


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