# Searching for the best way, using an X/Y Pad for plugìn´s like Thrill, Dark Zebra, Morphestra 2 etc.



## Marsen (Jun 2, 2021)

I saw this Audioswift app, which seems to be the perfect solution:




Though, i don´t have a trackpad, i understand, i can use it in combination with a Magic Trackpad 2.

Does anyone have experience with that?
I would use it on a Mac Mini 2018. I do have a Magic Mouse, which isn´t really responsive (that´s why I use a cable mouse for more precision), so I´m not sure the Magic Trackpad would be responsive enough (seems to be a bluetooth issue with the Mac Mini).

The alternative would be a Korg Nanopad 2.
What do you prefer? What is more reliable?

I won´t use it as mix-faders (have a hardware unit for that), just for X/Y Pad.
I would appreciate your thoughts/experiences on this.


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## ryanstrong (Jun 2, 2021)

Not a direct answer to your question, but if you have an iPad you can use an app like Lemur and have yourself a nice customizable XY pad. This is what I use and I love it.


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## Marsen (Jun 2, 2021)

Thanks Ryan, pointing me to this.
At the moment, I only have an Ipod 4 and an Android Tablet.


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## ryanstrong (Jun 2, 2021)

Marsen said:


> Thanks Ryan, pointing me to this.
> At the moment, I only have an Ipod 4 and an Android Tablet.


They make Lemur for Google...








Lemur - Apps on Google Play


Lemur is the world's best MIDI/OSC controller app




play.google.com





FYI


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## vitocorleone123 (Jun 2, 2021)

A refurb/used, older (2-3 yrs max), low end iPad isn’t too much money, provides huge amounts of control surfaces, from track pads to MPE things, not to mention all sorts of MIDI and audio generation and effects. Highly recommend picking one up on the cheap.


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## jcrosby (Jun 2, 2021)

Marsen said:


> I saw this Audioswift app, which seems to be the perfect solution:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have audioswift. It's pretty handy. It's a little awkward, in that it takes some getting used to having it on screen with your DAW open. But it's pretty handy for controlling something like an XY grid, or as a way to enter CCs on a laptop in a scenario where you don't have a keyboard on hand. (Traveling for example...) It's priced well, and has surprisingly deep functionality like aftertouch and MPE.
I'd say give the demo a spin and see what you think before thinking of an ipad...

Speaking of which... The ios app I use, Metagrid, is going to get midi controllers in the v2 update. V2's in development now and it really is going to be a one-ios-controller-to-rule-them-all scenario. It works with literally ANY application; not just audio apps, but finder, pages, literally whatever you define a control surface for...

It automatically detects what app you have open on screen and switches for you... It also works on Windows which is pretty awesome as it doesn't discriminate... And, it has hardcoded shortcut support for most DAWs, and pre-made DAW templates for a few. Once it gets midi controllers it's going to be a one stop shop where you can create a transport, create and ru shortcut macros, and send midi CCs... And like Lemur and Touch OSC you can customize it to your needs. It's unbelievably user friendly. AFAIC it's going to be the best all around ios solution for DAW control by a mile. (That's an opinion. But I stand behind it! )

Not to mention that they have great support. (At least in my experience. I've emailed back and forth with the developer several times and AFAIC support is what you would expect from a premium desktop app.)

I digress!! Basically I'd hold off on looking at ios options until you have a chance to see what metagrid 2 brings to the table that other apps don't... And either way Audioswift's certainly worth a demo to see how you get on with it...


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## kgdrum (Jun 2, 2021)

@jcrosby 
Wow AudioSwift looks really nice,thanks for posting this.
I might actually wait for version 2 but the functionality of this already looks pretty amazing!


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## jcrosby (Jun 2, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> @jcrosby
> Wow AudioSwift looks really nice,thanks for posting this.
> I might actually wait for version 2 but the functionality of this already looks pretty amazing!


If you mean metagrid when you refer to _v2_... Definitely! Even without midi control MG is still insanely awesome. I have buttons for shortcuts I either didn't have the space for, or frankly didn't even remember existed. Some being huge time savers that I don't even know how I lived without them before... Hands down the best $30 I've spent on any piece of music tech.


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## kgdrum (Jun 2, 2021)

@jcrosby
I looked at the AudioSwift video, I didn’t comprehend (yes I’m a drummer,lol) that you were referring to MetaGrid version 2
X /Y pad is the main thing I’m looking for via iPad or trackpad for Zebra etc….
Thanks I will have a look. 👍


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## kgdrum (Jun 2, 2021)

@jcrosby
Wow! MetaGrid looks really cool and very deep and this is version 1!
I just glanced at their website and I didn’t see, can you set up the iPad to
create X/ Y pad functionality?


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## jcrosby (Jun 2, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> @jcrosby
> Wow! MetaGrid looks really cool and very deep and this is version 1!
> I just glanced at their website and I didn’t see, can you set up the iPad to
> create X Y ? functionality?


Not yet. That's what I mean by v2. V2's in development now and they've confirmed on the forum that v2 will have CC controllers. They're just releasing sneak peaks of version 2 now, and it looks like you'll be able to completely design your own controllers to be whatever size and shape you want.

Mind you they haven't released any specifics about how MIDI will be handled in v2 so I can't say for sure it will have X/Y grids, but given how standard they are I can't imagine they won't.... Basically, if the potential for midi CCs is what appeals to you most then maybe hold off and keep an eye on their forum to see what features they continue to unveil for v2.

BTW, not to hijack this thread! But just wanted to post the sneak peaks they've released so far...
It's crazy powerful even without midi and just think people unaware of MG should at least know its out there as another DAW controller option....

Sorry @Marsen for derailing your thread 
Carry on folks !!

Metagrid Forum:



https://forum.metasystem.io/forum/metagrid-discussion/metagrid-discussion



Sneak Peaks of v2:












(This is where it's pretty easy to see where v2 is headed... Most likely you'll be able to make midi controllers of whatever size you want, essentially giving you something akin to Lemur and T Osc, but with hardcoded shortcut support for the major DAWs, the ability to build metagrid macros [i.e. if your DAW doesn't have macros that doesn't matter - metagrid does, by allowing you to chain shortcuts together as a series of actions  ], etc.)


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## Soundbed (Jun 2, 2021)

Marsen said:


> I saw this Audioswift app, which seems to be the perfect solution:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I recently got AudioSwift on a whim. It does what it says it does. However focus was moving away from my Kontakt instrument in Studio One when the AudioSwift controls were active. I could use it, or, look at Kontakt. Not both. Other daws (or PC/Windows) might have different results, or maybe you don’t look at Kontakt when you’re using it.
I only used it for faders, not XY control. I have a 2018 MBP.


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## kgdrum (Jun 2, 2021)

I already have Faderctrl so I’m covered enough for basic CC control.
If I can find something that could do a X/Y pad & few other things that would be awesome. Presently I’m using DP I like that MetaGrid actively supports DP,very cool.
I’m now officially eagerly waiting for MetaGrid 2


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## Trash Panda (Jun 2, 2021)

TouchOSC or MusiKraken on an iPad or iPhone over USB cable works pretty well for these types of use cases.


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## kgdrum (Jun 2, 2021)

Thanks


Trash Panda said:


> TouchOSC or MusiKraken on an iPad or iPhone over USB cable works pretty well for these types of use cases.


@Trash Panda 
Thanks I will check them out. 👍


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## Marsen (Jun 3, 2021)

Thanks all so far for your helpful responses.

The fact, that Audioswift has to be open on screen, to use it, is a con.
I will have a deeper look into Metagrid, though i don't have an iPad yet.


jcrosby said:


> BTW, not to hijack this thread! But just wanted to post the sneak peaks they've released so far...
> It's crazy powerful even without midi and just think people unaware of MG should at least know its out there as another DAW controller option....
> 
> Sorry @Marsen for derailing your thread


All good 😀.
No, thank you @jcrosby , that was really helpful. 

I also will have a look at TouchOSC and MusiKraken.


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## Soundbed (Jun 3, 2021)

Marsen said:


> The fact, that Audioswift has to be open on screen, to use it, is a con.


Yeah I basically have a great option for a minimal mobile rig but it’s not like I’m composing on planes these days....


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## stixman (Jun 3, 2021)

I use Korg Kaos pad 3 for this


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## jcrosby (Jun 3, 2021)

Marsen said:


> Thanks all so far for your helpful responses.
> 
> The fact, that Audioswift has to be open on screen, to use it, is a con.
> I will have a deeper look into Metagrid, though i don't have an iPad yet.
> ...


My last post probably portrayed it less favorably than I intended. (Probably just me being overly-giddy about MG 2's latest sneak peak...)

For instruments like Straylight, Pharlight, or anything else built around an X/Y grid it's super useful if you don't have a hardware controller or app with midi...

The only thing that has to be open is the smaller window of the two. And, I completely forgot that you can actually turn off the _keep on top of other windows_ option... (The star icon in the top left corner.) So you don't need to have it visible on screen per se becuase once your DAW's in focus you won't see it unless you specifically enable that feature.

I'd still recommend giving the demo a spin since it's pretty perfect for X/Y control.


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## muziksculp (Jun 4, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> V2's in development now and they've confirmed on the forum that v2 will have CC controllers. They're just releasing sneak peaks of version 2 now, and it looks like you'll be able to completely design your own controllers to be whatever size and shape you want.


Hi @jcrosby ,

Wow ! That would be fantastic.

I'm using Metagrid for articulation switching via buttons, and also use their Studio One Pro scenes for DAW control. Now if they add customizable CC faders, and offer X/Y CC control as well, this would make it the best iOS app for DAW and VST Control for me. It will also make Lemur obsolete for me, I don't like using it, so slow, and painful to program. 

Looking forward to the release of Metagrid Version 2. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## muziksculp (Jun 4, 2021)

I watched the three Metagrid ver. 2 videos, but he didn't mention that it will offer Faders, and/or X-Y pads to send CC#s. 

Where was it mentioned that version 2 will offer this ?

I also checked their forum, but couldn't find this info. I also posted a question on their forum about this. Hopefully someone from Metagrid will reply, and confirm this.


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## Ozinga (Jun 4, 2021)

Roli Lightpad Block and you get X Y Z


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## Marsen (Jun 4, 2021)

Ozinga said:


> Roli Lightpad Block and you get X Y Z


Yeah, I've seen this. Very cool but bit expensive.


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## kgdrum (Jun 4, 2021)

Marsen said:


> Yeah, I've seen this. Very cool but bit expensive.


Besides being expensive with various reports about Roli hemorrhaging money,I’m a bit skeptical about their longtime viability………….


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## muziksculp (Jun 4, 2021)

Hi,

OK, I found the confirmation that Metagrid ver 2 will have both X-Y pads, and Faders for CCs. This is going to make Metagrid 2 an amazing app. Super excited to see it released. 

Here is the quote of the app designer on their forum :

Quote : “The roadmap for MG2 includes faders, xy controls and other objects. Our flexible grid will be able to accommodate anything we can think of .


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## kgdrum (Jun 4, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> OK, I found the confirmation that Metagrid ver 2 will have both X-Y pads, and Faders for CCs. This is going to make Metagrid 2 an amazing app. Super excited to see it released.
> 
> ...


This is great news,I hope it doesn’t take an engineering degree to operate.
Regardless this does look like it will cover a ton of ground and be quite useful! 👍


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## muziksculp (Jun 4, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> This is great news,I hope it doesn’t take an engineering degree to operate.
> Regardless this does look like it will cover a ton of ground and be quite useful! 👍


LOL... I have Computer Science Degree, so I should be fine using MG2 😎


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## kgdrum (Jun 4, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> LOL... I have Computer Science Degree, so I should be fine using MG2 😎


It’s not you I’m worried about! 😂


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## charlieclouser (Jun 5, 2021)

Sensel Morph


The Sensel Morph is the world's most expressive, portable, and versatile controller. With hot-swappable overlays, you can make music, edit video, and much more.




morph.sensel.com





About $300. It uses rubbery overlays that snap into place magnetically, and the unit detects which overlay has been snapped into place and chooses the correct setup profile automatically. There's a drum pad overlay, full-MPE keyboard overlay, multitouch control surface overlay, authorized Buchla Thunder overlay.... or just use it like I do most of the time, with no overlays as an X-Y controller for Thrill etc. It's great.

Unbelievable industrial design, much bigger than a trackpad, and you don't sacrifice your trackpad to make it active. Way thinner and lighter than a tablet too. It's killer.


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## Mikro93 (Jun 5, 2021)

Marsen said:


> The alternative would be a Korg Nanopad 2.
> What do you prefer? What is more reliable?


To answer this question: I have a Nanopad 2, and the XY pad is particularly bad. It is not a capacitive technology, rather a poorly sensitive resistive design, where you have to push quite hard, and you can feel little bumps underneath because there might be an array of sensors underneath the top layer.
Same goes for the M-Audio code serie keyboards, which have a built-in XY pad. It can even work as a trackpad straight out of the box, but again, poor resistive technology, I wouldn't consider it.


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## el-bo (Jun 5, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> Sensel Morph
> 
> 
> The Sensel Morph is the world's most expressive, portable, and versatile controller. With hot-swappable overlays, you can make music, edit video, and much more.
> ...


I like the look of the custom designer overlay:



And also found this performance, which answered my questions about sensitivity and tracking speed


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## jcrosby (Jun 5, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I watched the three Metagrid ver. 2 videos, but he didn't mention that it will offer Faders, and/or X-Y pads to send CC#s.
> 
> Where was it mentioned that version 2 will offer this ?
> 
> I also checked their forum, but couldn't find this info. I also posted a question on their forum about this. Hopefully someone from Metagrid will reply, and confirm this.


The developer had confirmed on their forum that v2 will have MIDI CCs. I've seen it in several threads. Maybe he's hidden them as they get ready to enter beta? I don't know. But it has been confirmed more than once on there.

Also, V1 already sends Midi note data. You can already have an array of keyswitches in MG. You can also use MIDI as a way to trigger macros in Keyboard Maestro.

Tall skinny _buttons_ that can take up the entire side of an ipad make no sense as a button feature 'upgrade' under the MG paradigm. Based on their last video about flexigrid, it seems pretty clear that the primary purpose of converting buttons into columns will most likely be for things like sliders....


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## Marsen (Jun 5, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> or just use it like I do most of the time, with no overlays as an X-Y controller for Thrill etc. It's great.


I wasn´t aware, it can be used as an x/y pad. 
I saw it in my online-musicshop, but i thought, it´s only functional with one of the overlays, serving a special purpose.
Thanks for the suggestion Charlie.

Do you use it with usb or bluetooth?



Mikro93 said:


> I have a Nanopad 2, and the XY pad is particularly bad.


Thanks for this Mikro93.
I thought, I´d come away with this cheap unit, but now I have to rethink.

An Apple Magic Track Pad 2 is already around 140,- and it´s just a trackpad.
Metagrid 2 looks promising, but you need an ipad for that, which I (yet) do not have. 

Korg Chaospad is beyond 300,- and seems a bit outdated.

I see the advantage in both products: Sensel Morph (MPE functionality) and Metagrid 2 on iPad (DAW control, etc.)
Anyway, my music shop says for Sensel Morph: Available in 5-7 weeks, so maybe Metagrid 2 will be available then.
Enough time to check this, but I must say, the Sensel looks interesting for me, if the haptic feeling/reaction is really that good.

Thanks all for the great responses so far!


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## jonathanwright (Jun 7, 2021)

Hexler just released a new version of TouchOSC, which makes it very easy to set up an XY, took me five minutes including install.






TouchOSC | hexler.net







hexler.net


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## Marsen (Jun 7, 2021)

jonathanwright said:


> Hexler just released a new version of TouchOSC, which makes it very easy to set up an XY, took me five minutes including install.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like, there is a version for Android too.
I have a Samsung Tablet and it's just 10 bucks, interesting.


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## stixman (Jun 7, 2021)

I recently picked up a Morph to pair with my continuumini using the developers overlay now it’s 8 voice mpe! Might try the xyz in place of the kp3


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## SupremeFist (Jun 7, 2021)

Could you set up the paddle of an Arturia Polybrute to work as an XY pad over midi? (Asking for a friend who wants an excuse to buy an Arturia Polybrute.)


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## jcrosby (Jun 8, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> This is great news,I hope it doesn’t take an engineering degree to operate.
> Regardless this does look like it will cover a ton of ground and be quite useful! 👍


MG v1 is really easy to setup. I figured out just about everything by fumbling my way through it. Within a day or two I'd learned pretty much everything. I'd imagine v2 will be as straight forward, if not even moreso...


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## kgdrum (Jun 8, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> MG v1 is really easy to setup. I figured out just about everything by fumbling my way through it. Within a day or two I'd learned pretty much everything. I'd imagine v2 will be as straight forward, if not even moreso...


Great! Straightforward is what I want 👍


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## jcrosby (Jun 8, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> Great! Straightforward is what I want 👍


One of the things that sold me on it right away was that it detects whatever program you have open on screen and switches without you doing anything. You can literally build controls for any program you want if you wanted to take it that far....

So for example not only do I have a custom template I made for Logic, I also have a custom template for Live. My Live template has a bunch of sample searches set up that let me quickly find samples. It also has plugins setup to load automatically by using Live's search feature combined with MG's macros. (The search shortcut + the text macro with _xxx plugin_ + _.aupreset filled in. _You_ then _have it pause for .1 seoncds, then hit the enter key.. and voila, automatic plugin loading with a button)... It sounds way more complicated to set up that it actually is. It takes very little time and you figure out how to string them together pretty much right away and as far as I can tell there's no limit to the number of actions you can string together.

I even have a page for finder with important sample folders bookmarked. I press the buttons and each one opens a finder window with that specific folder open. I even have a few buttons for my browser, like print, new tab, etc...

In most instances shortcuts will be the limit of what you can do. The currently supported DAWs however have every shortcut in their feature set available. As I'd mentioned in my 1st post I now have buttons for things I didn't even realize Logic had shortcuts for, and/or I simply didn't have the shortcut capacity left for...

Hoping they release the 4th preview soon. Hopefully this will be the one where they start to show how using it for controllers will work.


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## AnhrithmonGelasma (Aug 8, 2022)

ryanstrong said:


> They make Lemur for Google...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Lemur development has stopped and the app will be removed from the Apple App Store and Google Play Store on 01 September 2022."

I use a pc so getting midi from my iPad Pro or iPhone would apparently be a hassle, and possibly unstable. Set up midi to USB on my Android phone and tried the free version of the "Pocket Midi" app for the XY pad and tried it with Tracktion F'em in Bitwig. Doesn't automatically receive it as XY pad. If I mute one of X or Y then Bitwig fails to receive midi data from it. After trying several times I managed to map X to X and Y to Y, but the X value in Bitwig is the mirror image of the X value in "Pocket Midi", which is hard to get used to. (XY "settings" are locked in the free version, so I have no idea if I could invert the X in there. Paid version would allow for two XY pads, but there's no indication of how much it would cost---guess I just have to click on "buy". Developer has apparently stopped responding to questions and app hasn't been updated in two years.) I'm hoping TouchOSC for Android might not have these issues but IDK....

I usually use an iPad Pro and an iPhone XS sending midi from iOS to pc apparently tends to be unstable, and is (even more of) a hassle to set up....


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