# Samplemodeling Horn and Tuba NEW!



## Siggi Mueller (Mar 8, 2012)

really great stuff! it´s fun to play with. =o 

http://www.samplemodeling.com/en/products_horntuba.php

Some demos:

http://www.samplemodeling.com/en/products_horntuba.php

Siggi


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## Daryl (Mar 8, 2012)

Downloading now..........!  

D


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## eschroder (Mar 8, 2012)

nice!


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## pablo1980 (Mar 8, 2012)

demos sound really nice....I wonder how they would blend with other libraries (cinebrass, albion)

I have the trumpet and trombone and they are a bit difficult to blend with more wet libraries


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## NYC Composer (Mar 8, 2012)

I would have bought them without listening to demos, and that's very rare, but I trust the company that much. I _would_ like to hear an SM brass choir demo now , just for fun.


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## tabulius (Mar 8, 2012)

Cool. The ensemble demo didn't sound really good, but I suspect it's just a mixing issue. French horn solo sounded really expressive however. I actually started planning to get the Samplemodeling brass bundle and use it with HB gold.

I couldn't find the brass bundle in the shop? Or should I just add the packages seperately?

On side note, what reverbs are you Samplemodeling users using? Those samples are super dry so I think this kind of plugin would help a lot: http://www.fluxhome.com/products/plug_ins/ircam_spat

It's super expensive tho. Anyone using Ircam Spat? Ideally I would use this as a stage placement and EW Spaces for hall reverb.


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## Danny_Owen (Mar 8, 2012)

NYC Composer @ Thu Mar 08 said:


> I _would_ like to hear an SM brass choir demo now , just for fun.



I suspect we're probably already hearing that on the ensemble demos. I'm very impressed and I know the company quality, this was pretty much a no brainer for me.


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## MikeH (Mar 8, 2012)

Holy carp. I love that horn. How is the CPU load with the samplemodeling instruments?


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## Daryl (Mar 8, 2012)

All sounds (and plays) very well for me. A few tweaks needed to get the response curve to my liking on the Horn, but it works really well.

D


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## Danny_Owen (Mar 8, 2012)

Initial impressions- pretty awesome, and pretty much exactly what you'd expect from a Sample Modelling instrument.

The 'unison' multi still has a bit of phase when using the same control for dynamics (as with the other libraries, but perhaps not as pronounced), so you'd probably want to sketch on the multi and then transfer onto individual lines to adjust the dynamics etc for each, but overall I'm impressed. 

The solo horn is very playable of course. 

*EDIT* I take back what I said about the phase to some extent- after really mixing this into my template with all the reverb/EQ I'm not noticing the phase nearly as much and I'd happily use this as a patch in its own right . Out of the box you might notice the phase though.


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## techeverlasting (Mar 8, 2012)

I agree with NYC Composer, I don't even need to listen to a demo before deciding to buy this. There is no other developer I could say that for.

I am thrilled that these work with Kontakt. I know Samplemodeling developed their own playback engine for their soprano sax and I assumed all their future releases would be on that player. I'm very reluctant to add any new sample playback engines, but I would have done it in this case.


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## Daryl (Mar 8, 2012)

Danny_Owen @ Thu Mar 08 said:


> Initial impressions- pretty awesome, and pretty much exactly what you'd expect from a Sample Modelling instrument.
> 
> The 'unison' multi still has a bit of phase when using the same control for dynamics (as with the other libraries, but perhaps not as pronounced), so you'd probably want to sketch on the multi and then transfer onto individual lines to adjust the dynamics etc for each, but overall I'm impressed.


This is easily solvable, but the difficult part is deciding how much to solve it, or if at all. Phasing between Horns in a section happens with live players as well, so eliminating it totally is also slightly false. In the end it's a matter of taste.

FWIW to use the ensemble patch I find it better to switch off the reverb send in Kontakt and do it all in the sequencer, the same as I normally do. Fatten the instruments up and then treat them the same as any dryish studio recording.

D


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## stonzthro (Mar 8, 2012)

Wow, that solo horn sounds fantastic!


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## Sam (Mar 8, 2012)

the best virtual horn and tuba ever

Kneel before SM

(o::o)


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## marcotronic (Mar 8, 2012)

tabulius @ Thu Mar 08 said:


> Cool. The ensemble demo didn't sound really good, but I suspect it's just a mixing issue. French horn solo sounded really expressive however. I actually started planning to get the Samplemodeling brass bundle and use it with HB gold.
> 
> I couldn't find the brass bundle in the shop? Or should I just add the packages seperately?
> 
> ...



Forum user re-peat uses Ircam Spat and he made a very nice demo of the SM "trumpet" played and mixed in this software in an older thread.

You may also consider VSL MIR Pro - which is perfect for stage placement and spatial mixing, it's cheaper than Ircam Spat and 64-Bit (as far as I know Ircam Spat is still only 32-Bit (at least on Mac as far as I remember). I use it in combination with QL Spaces, too.

Marco


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## marcotronic (Mar 8, 2012)

MikeH @ Thu Mar 08 said:


> Holy carp. I love that horn. How is the CPU load with the samplemodeling instruments?



Yeah, how about the CPU load with the horn & tuba? I have their trumpet and trombone and it's pretty heavy on CPU - I've had serious CPU issues trying to layer a few patches for ensemble fakes - even on a Mac Pro 8 core. So I'm very reluctant to pull the trigger for the horn & tuba. (Would also have to re-activate my breath controller again with a different midi interface I usually don't use anymore)

Marco


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## Alex Temple (Mar 8, 2012)

Looks awesome. There's one thing I wonder though about the unisons - with the trumpets, one of the better ways to keep it from sounding like it's phasing is to give individual lines slightly different amounts of vibrato. With horns that would sound unusual though since you rarely hear players use vibrato when playing in unison. I wonder if you can get around this using only slight differences in pitch, volume, and attack time.


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## Consona (Mar 8, 2012)

Sam @ Thu Mar 08 said:


> the best virtual horn and tuba ever
> 
> Kneel before SM
> 
> (o::o)


Really looking forward to updated version of Universal intro. :D


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## re-peat (Mar 8, 2012)

marcotronic @ Thu Mar 08 said:


> (...) uses Ircam Spat and made a (...) demo of the SM "trumpet" played and mixed in this software (...)


Funny you should mention that, Marco, because that's precisely what I'm am doing at this very minute: working on a little horn piece, and using IrcamSPAT for spatialization. Might throw in some tuba as well if the music I end up with calls for it.

I also bought the Horn+Tuba without listening to any of the demo's, by the way. I went straight from reading the announcement here in this thread to the Store-page on the Samplemodeling website and placed my order. Amazing how some companies can trigger almost Pavlovian behaviour from their customers, isn't it?

_


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## autopilot (Mar 8, 2012)

Cha Ching. 

And I'm broke ATM. 

Cha Ching.


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## dannthr (Mar 8, 2012)

Every time I think I'm free, they PULL ME BACK IN!!!!!

:x


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## Mr. Anxiety (Mar 8, 2012)

Super excited about this release!

I also use IRCAM Spat and have been having good luck getting dry instruments to sit appropriately "in the mix". I think adding eq to these instruments, rolling off the top of these sounds will get it that much closer........ just like it happens in real life.

I do hope I will not have CPU issues trying to get a full horn ensemble thing happening!

Best,

Mr A


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## germancomponist (Mar 8, 2012)

Opsssss,

I had a problem with my new mouse on my net-book. Suddenly a massage came, telling me: _"This post has now been reported to 13 moderators

Click Here to return to the topic"_

I am sorry for this! So, mods, please ignore it! o-[][]-o


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## germancomponist (Mar 8, 2012)

Mr. Anxiety @ Thu Mar 08 said:


> I do hope I will not have CPU issues trying to get a full horn ensemble thing happening!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Mr A



When I use more than one CPU hungry instruments, I always use that "freeze" function in cubase.


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## Blackster (Mar 8, 2012)

NYC Composer @ Thu Mar 08 said:


> I _would_ like to hear an SM brass choir demo now , just for fun.



I'm currently in the process of doing that. Piece is finished, but I will need 1-2 more days to finish it. Btw, I'm not using IRCAM nor MIR, only EQ and QL Spaces. Somehow, the horns are easier to mix than the trumpet or the trombones (at least for me). 

Anyway, I'll post that demo whenever it is finished.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 8, 2012)

germancomponist @ 8/3/2012 said:


> Opsssss,
> 
> I had a problem with my new mouse on my net-book. Suddenly a massage came, telling me: _"This post has now been reported to 13 moderators
> 
> ...



Well, Gunther, you also accidentally sent 2 pizzas to each of us - thanks!


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## germancomponist (Mar 8, 2012)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Fri Mar 09 said:


> Well, Gunther, you also accidentally sent 2 pizzas to each of us - thanks!



Bonne appetit!


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## spikescott (Mar 9, 2012)

Oh Lordy. I've been waiting for this for soooo long. I adore their work. I don't need to listen to the demo's, I'm pressing the BUY button as we speak...


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## Danny_Owen (Mar 9, 2012)

Are we predicting woodwinds next? Now THAT is something I'm looking forward too. :D


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## Ah_dziz (Mar 9, 2012)

Yay!


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## Daryl (Mar 9, 2012)

marcotronic @ Thu Mar 08 said:


> MikeH @ Thu Mar 08 said:
> 
> 
> > Holy carp. I love that horn. How is the CPU load with the samplemodeling instruments?
> ...


The Horns are also pretty intensive, particularly if you're using all 4 at once. It may well be a case of making sure you have them spread out over many instances, and then be prepared to do a quick freeze, in order to avoid excessive popping at low latencies.

D


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## Daryl (Mar 9, 2012)

Alex Temple @ Thu Mar 08 said:


> Looks awesome. There's one thing I wonder though about the unisons - with the trumpets, one of the better ways to keep it from sounding like it's phasing is to give individual lines slightly different amounts of vibrato. With horns that would sound unusual though since you rarely hear players use vibrato when playing in unison. I wonder if you can get around this using only slight differences in pitch, volume, and attack time.


The Horns are different to The Trumpet. There is a knob for early reflections, that isn't there with the Trumpet (although it would make things a lot easier if it was there). this means that all 4 horns can be easily programmed to avoid major phasing much more easily than with The Trumpet.

D


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## jamwerks (Mar 9, 2012)

Great news. I'd be very interested to hear these inside MIR PRO and SPAT !


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## NYC Composer (Mar 9, 2012)

Daryl @ Fri Mar 09 said:


> marcotronic @ Thu Mar 08 said:
> 
> 
> > MikeH @ Thu Mar 08 said:
> ...



...which is exactly what the Quick Start Guide says-the Horn is CPU intensive, and they recommend one instrument per instance of K4. I tried it both ways, and one instrument per instance is substantially easier on CPU.


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## germancomponist (Mar 9, 2012)

I played last night for 3 hours with the horns and the tuba. These instruments are top notch!

Also I found out that it gets really more interesting when you use a master reverb. 

Then the play even makes more fun. Above all, trying out the keyswitch functions and controller. You learn quickly to play the instrument, and you realize which reverb fits very well to what you play. It's like in real life, where you will be inspired by the sound of a room. 

Since yesterday, I know again, how good a plate reverb can sound with brass instruments.

o=<


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## stevenson-again (Mar 9, 2012)

I too bought it immediately. Very good indeed. Extremely expressive. It'll complement the Cinebrass horn nicely - but I think it'll be my go to.

Tuba impresses far less - There are better solutions for that. Doesn't have the deep bassy quality that SAM classic or symphobia, or even cinebrass. But it'll undoubtedly get used at some stage.


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## midphase (Mar 9, 2012)

How does something like this (their entire brass bundle) compare to Cinebrass and Hollywood Brass?

Are they apples and oranges or could you guys see using their Brass Bundle instead of the other two products for big Hollywood style orchestral mockups?


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## kdm (Mar 9, 2012)

Performance reference for those interested: Trumpets, trombones, all 4 horns and tuba running here on an i7 Win7 slave. 128 sample latency. One K4 instance per section.

SM brass have been my preferred brass library for a while - the wait for horns was well rewarded - great job SM team!


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## germancomponist (Mar 9, 2012)

Kay,

these instruments are "real virtual instruments", while the others are more "sample-playing- instruments".

I am not saying that I don`t like the others, but with SM instruments you have not to write for samples.... .


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## Daryl (Mar 9, 2012)

germancomponist @ Fri Mar 09 said:


> Kay,
> 
> these instruments are "real virtual instruments", while the others are more "sample-playing- instruments".
> 
> I am not saying that I don`t like the others, but with SM instruments you have not to write for samples.... .


This is true, but if you have no performance skills it is much more difficult to get a good job out of SM. :wink: 

However, I think that SM blows all other Brass libraries out of the water, with the exception of those big epic type Horn patches. These still sound better with the old fashioned sample libraries, IMO.

D


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## germancomponist (Mar 9, 2012)

Daryl @ Fri Mar 09 said:


> ... with the exception of those big epic type Horn patches. These still sound better with the old fashioned sample libraries, IMO.
> 
> D



Hm, not sure about this. It`s at first a mixing thing.... . 

I can`t wait for re-peat`s demo


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## Daryl (Mar 9, 2012)

germancomponist @ Fri Mar 09 said:


> Daryl @ Fri Mar 09 said:
> 
> 
> > ... with the exception of those big epic type Horn patches. These still sound better with the old fashioned sample libraries, IMO.
> ...


Actually, I almost take back what I said. I'm getting a really good "epic" (what a stupid word) sound though MIR. With the right microphone choice, of course.

D


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## reddognoyz (Mar 9, 2012)

I'll bet you can get the tuba to sing as well if it's treated properly


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## germancomponist (Mar 9, 2012)

reddognoyz @ Fri Mar 09 said:


> I'll bet you can get the tuba to sing as well if it's treated properly



The tuba, like any instrument is pale, weak on both ends. In the bottom area of the air consumption is enormous, the pressure build-up no longer possible, as in the higher tones. 

Tools like max-bass e.t.c. can do the job very well, also equing can change the sound in the direction you want to have it..... .


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## Sam (Mar 9, 2012)

Consona @ Thu Mar 08 said:


> Really looking forward to updated version of Universal intro. :D



:wink: 

here is a short example of Horns and Tuba playing in unison :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TUS-0PUQ-I

and a real performance :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnFl1q0IYTA


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## germancomponist (Mar 9, 2012)

Sam,
this example is good, but have you experimented with different reverbs?


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## Sam (Mar 9, 2012)

germancomponist @ Fri Mar 09 said:


> Sam,
> this example is good, but have you experimented with different reverbs?



no, but this can be interesting 

for this example I used a short reverb (a common hall) - the purpose here is not the orchestral context but keep a sound very close to the dry sound, to show that there is no unnatural phasing issue


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## Ryan (Mar 9, 2012)

No new shoes for me kids this month. Dad's new toy has arrived o=<


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## germancomponist (Mar 9, 2012)

Sam,

read my post some steps ago.... . I am sure you will have the same "Woahhhhh" what I have got, only by experimenting with different reverbs. Experiment with "Plate-Reverbs"!


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## Sam (Mar 9, 2012)

germancomponist @ Fri Mar 09 said:


> I am sure you will have the same "Woahhhhh" what I have got, only by experimenting with different reverbs. Experiment with "Plate-Reverbs"!



go ahead ! 
here is the dry version : https://www.yousendit.com/download/M3Bt ... NExvS3NUQw

and of course post the example here :wink: 

it's very interesting !


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## germancomponist (Mar 9, 2012)

Yes it is. 

But now I am far away from my studio, so I can do this tomorrow..... .


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## Ryan (Mar 9, 2012)

Lexicon homemade ER, and tail. There are some compressor and EQ-ing also.

I used the dry version from sam.
http://www.box.com/s/yq3ju1hckh08q18cf6vq


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## marcotronic (Mar 10, 2012)

I've also given Sam's dry files a shot with different tools:

MIR Pro, Teldex Venue, relatively close to the mic - all settings default
http://www.box.com/s/5p80p93z8jjso7ol1zce

MIR Pro, Teldex Venue, far away from mic, rev. time reduced to 1.10, dry/wet offset -30 + QL Spaces Hamburg Cathedral A TS FR 2.8s:
http://www.box.com/s/5bbu4hn9ih33vgjje6sg

MIR Pro, Vienna Konzerthaus Grosser Saal V2, reduced dry/wet offset -34:
http://www.box.com/s/35ihat2qqsc84ib07k7p

Vienna Hybrid Reverb, Scoring Preset - "Berlin Stage Wide 2.3s"
http://www.box.com/s/9g3shddzsvlg6bk0xbvd


I for one like the last two most but I must admit that I'm not really blown away by the general sound of the instruments -- compared to recent brass libs (CineBrass and Hollywood Brass) they really sound quite a bit synthetic to my ears (I like Ryan's example as he also used some EQ (I'm sure he reduced the high freqs a bit) -whereas my examples just use the reverbs, no direct EQ).

I know that their playability is second to none, especially with a breath controller (own trumpet and trombone myself), but somehow I don't like them too much in a large orchestral context - maybe in mix with other libs (Alex Temple does that very very well e.g.!)

Marco


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## Sam (Mar 10, 2012)

I Should Have take more time to polish the programming, EQ and pan - I'm not really satisfied by this extract


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## germancomponist (Mar 10, 2012)

Sam @ Sat Mar 10 said:


> I Should Have take more time to polish the programming, EQ and pan - I'm not really satisfied by this extract



A little more liveliness.... . The controllers are there.

Trust yourself calm, even something "wrong" to play, tuning and timing wise.


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## Daryl (Mar 10, 2012)

marcotronic @ Sat Mar 10 said:


> I for one like the last two most but I must admit that I'm not really blown away by the general sound of the instruments -- compared to recent brass libs (CineBrass and Hollywood Brass) they really sound quite a bit synthetic to my ears (I like Ryan's example as he also used some EQ (I'm sure he reduced the high freqs a bit) -whereas my examples just use the reverbs, no direct EQ).
> 
> I know that their playability is second to none, especially with a breath controller (own trumpet and trombone myself), but somehow I don't like them too much in a large orchestral context - maybe in mix with other libs (Alex Temple does that very very well e.g.!)
> 
> Marco


Certainly SM instruments have a greater likelihood of sounding somewhat synthetic, but I don't think that the other brass libraries out there fare any better. To my ears one note sounds great, but the performance side of things is pretty bad most of the time.

In my view deciding what sample library to use is always going to be a compromise. If you go for samples recorded in a big acoustic (assuming you want/like that sort of sound) it is obviously going to be easier to get something that sounds pretty good, with no effort. However, the performance side is extremely limited. If you use a sample recorded in a small acoustic, it will take much more effort to get the big sound, but the performance side of it is going to be way more flexible. So the choice is a compromise. For me it is performance every time. In the real world, I would rather hear a good player playing in the street than a cr*p player doing a recital in the Wigmore Hall.

D


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## marcotronic (Mar 10, 2012)

Daryl @ Sat Mar 10 said:


> marcotronic @ Sat Mar 10 said:
> 
> 
> > I for one like the last two most but I must admit that I'm not really blown away by the general sound of the instruments -- compared to recent brass libs (CineBrass and Hollywood Brass) they really sound quite a bit synthetic to my ears (I like Ryan's example as he also used some EQ (I'm sure he reduced the high freqs a bit) -whereas my examples just use the reverbs, no direct EQ).
> ...



That's true - definitely.


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## FriFlo (Mar 10, 2012)

Wow, I have to agree! This is the only company, where I instantly buy their new releases without even listening to any demos!
There are only a few exceptions to me, where some traditionally sampled instruments may sond better.
One thing would be the diffrent repetition patterns of brass (and woodwind) players like dig-ge-di or ta-te-ti. It is quite hard IMO to get these repetitions sound as good with sample modeling. Didn't trumpets and trombones have some controler that adds note velocity to the expression? I miss that here. For fast staccato passages velocity is the more natural way of controlling accents.
That being said, I love sample modeling instruments and prefer them in almost any circumstance to others. They are the only ones, that really give you some real-time playing experience IMO.

Thank you Sample Modeling! Now Strings, PLEASE! :D


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## reddognoyz (Mar 10, 2012)

Has anyone had had any experience wth the SWARM engine they use for the soprano sax??


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## Sam (Mar 10, 2012)

and now full Sample modeling brass in orchestral context :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3__i_ytYAI


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## germancomponist (Mar 10, 2012)

Sam @ Sat Mar 10 said:


> and now full Sample modeling brass in orchestral context :
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3__i_ytYAI


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## Ryan (Mar 10, 2012)

Bravo Sam. o=< Do you mind PM me on how you avoid phasing, and how you do your mixing? Would have been very great!

And yes, I reduced the highs a bit on that example. 

BTW: I would understand if you don't want to shear your secrets. 

Thanks!


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## jamwerks (Mar 10, 2012)

Thanks to all who have put up examples.

Mir Pro does seem to be able to convencively put SM on a stage, but I'm not totally blown away by the overall tone. Could be tweeking some parameters might change that (SM give access to lots of those).

Undoubtedly impossible to outdo a real instrument in a real room like HB & CB give us, but these SM instruments are great on those ocassions when you need more control or more obscure articulations.


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## Daryl (Mar 10, 2012)

jamwerks @ Sat Mar 10 said:


> Undoubtedly impossible to outdo a real instrument in a real room like HB & CB give us, but these SM instruments are great on those ocassions when you need more control or more obscure articulations.


Not undoubtedly to me, as I have yet to hear anything musically convincing (that is not just loud noise) from either of those libraries.

D


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## NYC Composer (Mar 10, 2012)

Sam-share!! :wink: 

(or not-either way, sounds great to me)


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## Sam (Mar 10, 2012)

Thanks guys !



Ryan @ Sat Mar 10 said:


> how you avoid phasing, and how you do your mixing? Would have been very great!



Programmed each solo instrument individually by changing CC11, Velocity, Modwheel (vibrato) and Pitch Bend - a perfect copy/paste is obvious and makes no sense - You have to use CC ( for exemple CC24 - 26 - 27 are essential)
There are very important informations in the documentation.
The 4xhorns ensemble patch works well but I prefer working with solos.

Concerning the mix, Altiverb Todd AO is the most important point for me

Here is another extract, with 4 horns, less "noise", more expressive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9BsdVQZiCc


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## Danny_Owen (Mar 11, 2012)

Sounds really superb to me.


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## marcotronic (Mar 11, 2012)

Just excellent, Sam!


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## noiseboyuk (Mar 11, 2012)

Yeah, these are excellent. However, I've always been put off SM because of the amount of controllers, it sounds like it takes a long time to build a convincing effect (I'm not a wind player, so a breath controller isn't a good option for me). Would be interested to see a video tutorial of a keyboard-based approach to get a result as good as this.


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## Daryl (Mar 11, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Sun Mar 11 said:


> Yeah, these are excellent. However, I've always been put off SM because of the amount of controllers, it sounds like it takes a long time to build a convincing effect (I'm not a wind player, so a breath controller isn't a good option for me). Would be interested to see a video tutorial of a keyboard-based approach to get a result as good as this.


The only controller that you absolutely need to have at your fingertips is for Expression (whcih you could set to the Modwheel, if you want to). All the others are easy to add after the fact, and in the case of the Horn you are in luck, because the most useful of the other controllers is vibrato, and in the UK French Horn players don't generally use vibrato.

As far as the Breath Controller is concerned, you don't need to be a Wind player. However, it will take a bit of practice to get the hang of it. It took me a few months before I was totally confident, and I'm not really a Wind player either. My latest chore is to learn to play the EWI, which is a different kettle of fish. However, as long as I do a little bit of practice very day, I think that in 6 months I will be OK at that as well.

D


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## NYC Composer (Mar 11, 2012)

Even when using The Trumpet in a pop/jazz context, the only controllers you absolutely need are Expression, (I use a foot pedal) Growl,not just for actual growl but for added huskiness on certain notes, and vibrato, which covers both vibrato and shakes. It ain't that hard.


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## Sam (Mar 11, 2012)

Thanks again :wink: 



noiseboyuk @ Sun Mar 11 said:


> Would be interested to see a video tutorial of a keyboard-based approach to get a result as good as this.



I am working with keyboard/mouse only

For a living sound, you should never use a perfect line - the best way to reproduce the small imperfections (when you're not a good live player) is to paint the sound :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTNvwCCScdo


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## Ryan (Mar 12, 2012)

Cool sam. I can't see what you paint in your third lane, so what controller is that?

I've also started to make a version of dogs of war. I found quickly out that the painting is the most effective way of doing it. Have anyone tried the Yamaha BC3 on this? I could imagine some very cool results. Wonder if I want to invest in it. 

Thanks


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## Blackster (Mar 12, 2012)

Ryan @ Mon Mar 12 said:


> Have anyone tried the Yamaha BC3 on this? I could imagine some very cool results. Wonder if I want to invest in it.



I have one but can't use it  ... I did several tests but if you are not a wind player you'll need a good amount of practice to make it sound ok .... so, in case you don't have experience with wind instruments, I would not recommend buying it.


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## noiseboyuk (Mar 12, 2012)

Sam @ Mon Mar 12 said:


> Thanks again :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Sam - so the first controller is CC1, what are the others, and what are they assigned to? That last lane set to 127 seemed to make quite a difference, btw, or maybe I was getting it confused with the previous one.

This looks straightforward for a single line, but if you have an ensemble and you need to do it with every single one... that'd take some time, obviously. I may have missed this, but is there any form of humanization script for working in ensembles? I think two controllers per part is as much as I'd ideally like to tweak.


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## Ryan (Mar 12, 2012)

Blackster @ 12/3/2012 said:


> Ryan @ Mon Mar 12 said:
> 
> 
> > Have anyone tried the Yamaha BC3 on this? I could imagine some very cool results. Wonder if I want to invest in it.
> ...



Well, good to know. I did play the recorder at elementary school though, hehe.. I really need to think a bit more on it. But I would most definitely love to try it out. When I'm writing music, I always breath the musicality / dynamics while playing on the piano, even if it's for strings, woods and brass. It somehow helps me with the emotional aspects with the art of writing. I really need to think this over.

Thanks.


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## Daryl (Mar 12, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Mon Mar 12 said:


> This looks straightforward for a single line, but if you have an ensemble and you need to do it with every single one... that'd take some time, obviously. I may have missed this, but is there any form of humanization script for working in ensembles? I think two controllers per part is as much as I'd ideally like to tweak.


There is an ensemble Horn patch that can be driven from one MIDI track. It not only has different settings for each component, but also has a random algorithm, so that all the components don't play at the same time. Obviously it is better to play each line individually, but if you are looking for shortcuts, at least there is one.

D


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## Daryl (Mar 12, 2012)

Blackster @ Mon Mar 12 said:


> Ryan @ Mon Mar 12 said:
> 
> 
> > Have anyone tried the Yamaha BC3 on this? I could imagine some very cool results. Wonder if I want to invest in it.
> ...


I agree that it takes practice, but it's well worthwhile, IMO.

D


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## Tobias Hanquist (Mar 13, 2012)

Sam @ Sat Mar 10 said:


> and now full Sample modeling brass in orchestral context :
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3__i_ytYAI



Sounds nice! Do you prefer Altiverb to Mir Pro?


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## Vision (Mar 13, 2012)

Sam @ Sat Mar 10 said:


> Thanks guys !
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As a former French Horn player.. this is uncanny. Best virtual instrument I've heard yet. Excellent programming.. You have a really good ear.


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## Blackster (Mar 13, 2012)

Hi guys,

here is my attempt to a SM brass section. Please let me know what you think:

http://soundcloud.com/frank-herrlinger/hour-of-honor

I'm still struggling with the sound of some notes but looking forward to what you guys think about that.


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## artinro (Mar 15, 2012)

Sam @ Sun Mar 11 said:


> Thanks again :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sam, thanks for posting this. Very well done!

Could you tell us which controllers you are using in the video? It's a little difficult to see since the video resolution isn't great.

I can see CC 11 and CC1, the others are difficult to read. Can you elaborate a little on those and tell us what you have them assigned to?

Thanks!


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## dannthr (Mar 15, 2012)

I think he's using:

CC11 = Dynamics
CC1 = Vibrato Intensity
CC19 = Vibrato Frequency
CC24 = Pitch to Dynamics Modulation


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## artinro (Mar 15, 2012)

dannthr @ Thu Mar 15 said:


> I think he's using:
> 
> CC11 = Dynamics
> CC1 = Vibrato Intensity
> ...



Thanks, Dan! You have better eyes than I do 

Appreciate it.


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## reddognoyz (Mar 15, 2012)

what is "pitch to dynamics modulation?


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## Paul T McGraw (Mar 15, 2012)

Yes, what is that?

Also, what are the pros and cons of SM brass compared to Cinebrass?


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## dannthr (Mar 15, 2012)

I don't remember the exact name because I don't have the documentation in front of me at the moment (I'm not in my studio), but I believe it's the "shittification" filter.

I think it creates a relationship between pitch accuracy as related to dynamics.

But I'm going off of memory here, sorry.


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## dannthr (Mar 15, 2012)

Truckload @ Thu Mar 15 said:


> Yes, what is that?
> 
> Also, what are the pros and cons of SM brass compared to Cinebrass?



To be honest,

And not trying to make this some kind of comparison thread, as it's bound to spiral off to becoming once this question is asked.

But I now have all of the CineBrass stuff and all of the Sample Modeling stuff and I feel like we're talking about a contrast based on work/flexibility.

CB is just out-right out-of-the-box gorgeous. I am almost, but not quite embarrassed about how many times I've played the Star Trek Fanfare with CBP.

But at the end of the day, my fantasy is to be mother flappin' John Williams genius and have a mastery over the brass in a choral fashion.

SM provides an incredible amount of expressive flexibility at the cost of HOLY SHIT SO MUCH FRACKIN WORK.

It's a highly nuanced library that requires a great deal of programming and a great deal of mixing--but it's spectacular from a performance stand-point and it's spectacular from a compositional standpoint.

My french horn chords, my voicing, my flaxen brass choral voicing for chocolate shakes!

At the end of the day I fantasize that I am a freaking incredible composer and I want complete asinine control over every tiny little chord voicing, arrangement, and performance, and that's what SM gives me--whether I truly feel like it or not.

It's also a mother flubbing shtick to mix.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 15, 2012)

dannthr @ Thu Mar 15 said:


> Truckload @ Thu Mar 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, what is that?
> ...



I can believe it. I don't have CB, but I have SM, and it's fabulous but time consuming.

Since you do have CB, if you had to choose, can I ask you which you would prioritize of Core and Pro, if you had to choose one?


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## dannthr (Mar 15, 2012)

That's kind of like asking now that I have Orange Juice, which would I prefer, Orange or Juice?

CineBrass Pro is an expansion of CineBrass Core. The Core is the Earth and the Pro is all the life on it. Would I prefer the life on it, yes, but it has to be on it, so they go together.


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## Paul T McGraw (Mar 15, 2012)

Thank you dannthr!  That was great! Very witty. I am so glad this forum is here.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 15, 2012)

dannthr @ Thu Mar 15 said:


> That's kind of like asking now that I have Orange Juice, which would I prefer, Orange or Juice?
> 
> CineBrass Pro is an expansion of CineBrass Core. The Core is the Earth and the Pro is all the life on it. Would I prefer the life on it, yes, but it has to be on it, so they go together.



Umm. Thanks for clearing that up. :roll:


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## reddognoyz (Mar 16, 2012)

dannthr @ Thu Mar 15 said:


> Truckload @ Thu Mar 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, what is that?
> ...



Agreed, I use it when I need an expressive, (mostly comical) solo instrument. I ride cc11 like theres no tomorrow. Mixing it in is a bitch it's bright and dry and brittle, because of how it's recorded. I don't think it would work if the samples had room in them.


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## dannthr (Mar 16, 2012)

reddognoyz @ Fri Mar 16 said:


> I ride cc11 like theres no tomorrow.



Ride on, brother!

Ride it on into the sunset!


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## Sam (Mar 16, 2012)

Thanks for the kind words

and sorry for the low quality of my video capture, I will do better next time.


extract from The Trombone manual : 
_CC24: dynamics-to-pitch modulation. In the real instrument, the current pitch is affected by transient changes of the dynamics. The Trombone exactly reproduces this behaviour. The intensity of this pitch response can be varied with CC24, to better cope with different styles. For example, barock music generally exhibits less fluctuations, and the overall pitch tends to be more steady. You may reproduce this behaviour by decreasing CC24 somewhat from the default
value of 64. Conversely, a “funny trombone”, mimicking the performance of a beginner, (or a drunken player, see The Trumpet performance at: http://www.sample-modeling.com/Demos/5-Oktoberfest.mp3 ☺) can be obtained by increasing CC24 to very high values._

It's a very important CC and very usefull for ensemble sound (chords or unison) - by using different values on each instrument you can obtain a realistic "out of tune" effect


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## Sam (Mar 16, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Mon Mar 12 said:


> This looks straightforward for a single line, but if you have an ensemble and you need to do it with every single one... that'd take some time, obviously. I may have missed this, but is there any form of humanization script for working in ensembles? I think two controllers per part is as much as I'd ideally like to tweak.



For the ensemble sound you have to change everything but it can be done quickly : copy/paste and then make subtle changes in the curves, velocity etc - I also use Vst expression in Cubase for the position.

I will make another video to show this.

One thing I really like with SM instruments is that you can get something decent very quickly or take more time to work in detail : a line can be polished in many levels.


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## dannthr (Mar 17, 2012)

Star Wars Opening Template Mix Test:

[mp3]http://www.dannthr.com/temp/starwars_lass_vsl_sm_test_01.mp3[/mp3]

SM Brass Only:

[mp3]http://www.dannthr.com/temp/starwars_sm_test_01.mp3[/mp3]

What'd'ya guys think?


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## noiseboyuk (Mar 17, 2012)

Dan - it's such a thankless task to compare against something so iconic! Honestly, I don't like - actually the horns aren't bad, but the trumpets seem very artificial to me. Perhaps a lot of it is the right air in the samples, not sure. Sorry!


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## dannthr (Mar 17, 2012)

There is most definitely an air issue with SM Brass, but air is an issue in all samples.

Samples either have too much or not enough.

I actually feel like the Trumpet is out of date compared to these newer guys.

It's also a bit on the thin side--definitely due for an update, in my opinion.


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## dannthr (Mar 17, 2012)

How 'bout dis?

Full

[mp3]http://www.dannthr.com/temp/starwars_lass_vsl_sm_test_02.mp3[/mp3]

Brass

[mp3]http://www.dannthr.com/temp/starwars_sm_test_02.mp3[/mp3]


Re: Thankless Task

Here's my feeling about that: 

I tell my students that the only thing standing between their idea and their product are the tools they use.

This works against them and it works for them.

All of us, I know, are tired of restricting our writing to the strengths of our tools. So, I like to use JW as a testing ground for samples because that guy don't write for nobody's samples no how.

So, for me, the thanks is there, even in failure. It's just an opportunity to learn.


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## noiseboyuk (Mar 17, 2012)

Can't fault the logic there, Dan!

Not keen on that example either I'm afriad...


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## adg21 (Mar 17, 2012)

dannthr, if you could somehow make the trumpet shorts shorter and punchier then it might work...


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## Stevie (Jul 14, 2012)

I've composed a new demo for Sample Modeling's Horn library.

Check it out here:

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/52744751&secret_url=false[/flash]


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## Arbee (Jul 14, 2012)

What a beautiful buttery tone, and nice writing! What strings are you using on this track?

Edit: answered my question on your Soundcloud page. Thanks.


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## Stevie (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks Arbee!

Yeah, I listed all the instruments on Soundcloud, I knew people would ask for this 


Cheers,

Stevie


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## pablo1980 (Jul 15, 2012)

I have a question for SM Horns users.
I am using the basic patches when I writing four parts harmony.

But, sometimes horn 1 and horn 2 (or 1 and 3) will be playing an unison line and the other two another unison line. Should I switch to the Unison Patches? Or continue using the basic patches?

Thanks, this is the best horns library I used by far


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## germancomponist (Jul 15, 2012)

pablo1980 @ Sun Jul 15 said:


> I have a question for SM Horns users.
> I am using the basic patches when I writing four parts harmony.
> 
> But, sometimes horn 1 and horn 2 (or 1 and 3) will be playing an unison line and the other two another unison line. Should I switch to the Unison Patches? Or continue using the basic patches?
> ...



Continue using the basic patches is the best way to get best results. And never duplicate a track for unison!


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