# New string runs library for Kontakt announced



## Yossarian (Jun 24, 2010)

Sorry if this has already been mentioned but I just saw this on KvR and thought it might be of interest. It's an upcoming library for Kontakt 3.5 and Kontakt 4 from composer Hendrik Schwarzer. It specializes in tempo locked string runs and is slated for release in September as a downloadable product. No information on price as yet. 

There's a video preview here:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEH8mq0rdBs

/Yoss


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## Danny_Owen (Jun 24, 2010)

I like the look of it  seems to be ensemble patches though, will be interesting to see how well it actually melds into the other string libraries out there


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 24, 2010)

The soulmate to Hollywoodwinds! Will be watching this closely... not 100% convinced that the sound is quite right yet, but very interesting to be sure...


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## Dave Connor (Jun 24, 2010)

Looks/sounds very good.


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## mikebarry (Jun 24, 2010)

Looks interesting! I heard the HWW also ☺ 


We will definitely be doing the companion to HWW ourselves sometime, along with some other tricks, but it won't be coming out in the near future. But hopefully the microphone mixes here in this product will sit well with all the other string libraries so we can all be happy in the meantime.


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## midphase (Jun 24, 2010)

This is another product which gets a big "duh...why didn't someone think of this sooner?"

We've all been using pre-recorded runs, but this makes it a whole lot easier and more manageable!


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## Mike Connelly (Jun 24, 2010)

Sounds good and pretty flexible from what's in the demo. I wonder if he just heard HWW and decided to do the same thing with strings.

I'm kind of surprised that HS didn't do more with prerecorded runs - it seems like the played runs are a bit better, but I still don't think we're at the point where anyone can match a prerecorded run (strings or winds).


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## Toxeen (Jun 24, 2010)

Nice. Good luck to him. Someone should tell him to drop by here. Might help to get some feedback from potential clients.

In terms of string runs, you should also check out the HS vivaldi demo.

http://media.soundsonline.com/ip/mp3/24 ... s-runs.mp3

As a HS owner, I can say that nothing else comes close, so far.


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 24, 2010)

Toxeen @ Thu Jun 24 said:


> Nice. Good luck to him. Someone should tell him to drop by here. Might help to get some feedback from potential clients.
> 
> In terms of string runs, you should also check out the HS vivaldi demo.
> 
> ...



ooooohhhhh wooooowwwww.... THAT's a stunning demo!


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## midphase (Jun 24, 2010)

noiseboyuk @ Thu Jun 24 said:


> ooooohhhhh wooooowwwww.... THAT's a stunning demo!



Trying hard to be nice....so hard.....ahhhhhh (brain explodes).


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## Animus (Jun 24, 2010)

noiseboyuk @ Thu Jun 24 said:


> Toxeen @ Thu Jun 24 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice. Good luck to him. Someone should tell him to drop by here. Might help to get some feedback from potential clients.
> ...



Those runs sound cool but I just don't like the tone of HS though.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 24, 2010)

Animus @ Thu Jun 24 said:


> noiseboyuk @ Thu Jun 24 said:
> 
> 
> > Toxeen @ Thu Jun 24 said:
> ...



I do, from listening to the demos but I will have a better idea when I get them next week and can actually play them.


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## Yossarian (Jun 24, 2010)

You can hear some of Hendrik's music at www.myspace.com/hendrikschwarzer . There's also a video clip from a scoring session with the Belarus Philharmonic Orchestra (I believe that's the orchestra he recorded for this library):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei7x_YZjacY

Jeepers, the guy's only 23!

/Yoss


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## NYC Composer (Jun 24, 2010)

Toxeen @ Thu Jun 24 said:


> Nice. Good luck to him. Someone should tell him to drop by here. Might help to get some feedback from potential clients.
> 
> In terms of string runs, you should also check out the HS vivaldi demo.
> 
> ...



Those sound awesome. Are they tempo-locked?


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## Ed (Jun 24, 2010)

midphase @ Thu Jun 24 said:


> This is another product which gets a big "duh...why didn't someone think of this sooner?"



I know the PP guys had pre recorded runs so I guess someone did 

I guess smart violins did it first properly though.

I think this sounds good, not crazy about the tone though.


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## Mike Connelly (Jun 24, 2010)

Prerecorded runs have been around forever. They just weren't tempo locked until recently, and these newer ones have more options.


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## Ed (Jun 24, 2010)

Well of course I mean even Prosonus Orchestral has some runs and thats over 15 years old but I mean proper runs that are actually usable in this way.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 24, 2010)

NYC Composer @ Thu Jun 24 said:


> Toxeen @ Thu Jun 24 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice. Good luck to him. Someone should tell him to drop by here. Might help to get some feedback from potential clients.
> ...



ummm....?


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## midphase (Jun 24, 2010)

Ed @ Thu Jun 24 said:


> Well of course I mean even Prosonus Orchestral has some runs and thats over 15 years old but I mean proper runs that are actually usable in this way.




What I meant is why didn't someone release tempo-locked runs until now? The technology has been part of Kontakt for many years now.

And yes, I have my personal custom collection or string runs as so do many other composers around town...just never bothered to actually program the tempo sync function (but I always say that I will as soon as I get a breather...which doesn't seem to be happening lately).


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## Stephen Baysted (Jun 24, 2010)

Toxeen @ Thu Jun 24 said:


> Nice. Good luck to him. Someone should tell him to drop by here. Might help to get some feedback from potential clients.
> 
> In terms of string runs, you should also check out the HS vivaldi demo.
> 
> ...



That sounds gash. Yuck. (I have HS btw).


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## MaraschinoMusic (Jun 24, 2010)

Just when you thought you had it all...

This looks like another no-brainer - roll on September 8)


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## Animus (Jun 24, 2010)

I am waiting to get HS as a Audiomidi no-brainer deal in about 6 months.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 24, 2010)

Does.....H...S.....have....tempo.....locked.....string.....runs.....

?


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## Jack Weaver (Jun 24, 2010)

Yes

.


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## Mike Connelly (Jun 24, 2010)

I thought I read that HS doesn't have tempo locked runs but it's planned for an update.


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## Jack Weaver (Jun 24, 2010)

Don't have the manual in front of me but I do have HS up on the computer.

When I change the tempo in Logic the speed of playback changes. Seems to be tempo-locked to me. No commentary here on the quality of the audio when playback speed is changed though. 

The new Kontakt library mentioned in this thread does sound interesting. As I remember LASS 2 is supposed to have a compendium of string runs of differing lengths and direction turns. Anyone have any word on this?

.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 24, 2010)

Jack Weaver @ Thu Jun 24 said:


> Yes
> 
> .



Thank you.


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## synthetic (Jun 24, 2010)

noiseboyuk @ Thu Jun 24 said:


> Toxeen @ Thu Jun 24 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice. Good luck to him. Someone should tell him to drop by here. Might help to get some feedback from potential clients.
> ...



Wow, sounds really good to me in headphones. Totally aggressive and believable IMO.


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## mjc (Jun 24, 2010)

I know this topic is about the library but I'm surprised not many people have mentioned the amazing talent of this guy

Remember this guy is only 23...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei7x_YZjacY

hold your breath for around 1:52...just wow!!


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 25, 2010)

synthetic @ Fri Jun 25 said:


> noiseboyuk @ Thu Jun 24 said:
> 
> 
> > Toxeen @ Thu Jun 24 said:
> ...



Quite.... find it hard to believe that some are arguing that it doesn't sound excellent but hey, we've all been here before in VI Control!

Do think this new library has great promise (I know loads of us were saying there's a market for this when HWW was released, and great to see Cinesamples will produce one in the future). So far it doesn't have the same wow factor as HWW imho but I appreciate its early days.


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## jamwerks (Jun 25, 2010)

Great sounding runs. I can forsee problems though mixing these libraries with our others, just for the runs (matching ambience & general tone). Being a VSL user, I imagine that they will do some also.

And of course, we'll need runs also for WW's. Our libraries are truly never complete! /\~O


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## Justus (Jun 25, 2010)

Jack Weaver @ Thu Jun 24 said:


> Yes
> 
> .



OT, but that reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZhrbmWUvN4&feature=player_embedded


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## midphase (Jun 25, 2010)

jamwerks @ Fri Jun 25 said:


> Great sounding runs. I can forsee problems though mixing these libraries with our others, just for the runs (matching ambience & general tone). Being a VSL user, I imagine that they will do some also.
> 
> And of course, we'll need runs also for WW's. Our libraries are truly never complete! /\~O



You'd be surprised what you can get away with when it comes to mixing and matching samples like these, especially if we're talking about fast runs mixed in with other elements.

Regarding the WW runs...isn't that already available through Cinesamples' Hollywood Woodwinds?


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## Mike Connelly (Jun 25, 2010)

Could someone with HS elaborate on the specifics of what kinds of prerecorded runs? Which instruments, scales, range of tempos? An audio example showing some off would be great as well.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 25, 2010)

midphase @ Fri Jun 25 said:


> /quote]
> 
> You'd be surprised what you can get away with when it comes to mixing and matching samples like these, especially if we're talking about fast runs mixed in with other elements.



This is true. Craig Sharmat showed me a little trick a few years ago where he played in a run and then mixed in a pre-recorded run even though it had different notes, way behind it, and you do not notice the pitch discrepancies but it gives it that sweep.


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## Narval (Jun 25, 2010)

ajcmuso @ Thu Jun 24 said:


> I know this topic is about the library but I'm surprised not many people have mentioned the amazing talent of this guy
> 
> Remember this guy is only 23...
> 
> ...


Wow. Why do those timpani sound like woodblocks? Are they 23 too? :lol:


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## germancomponist (Jun 25, 2010)

A super professional advertisting video to promote himself. One is for sure: He (and maybe his father) know how the market works.... . 

BTW. Doing this lib is not a bad idea. In the very past we had tons with ready played runs and phrases, then only some and now cinesamples came with their woodwinds... .


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## Mike Connelly (Jun 25, 2010)

It always seems like a big oversight to me when libraries don't include a fair amount of prerecorded runs. Look at EWQLSO, it has a couple versions of WW runs (which are very nice, even with the limited options), but not a single string run?


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## re-peat (Jun 25, 2010)

Mike Connelly @ Fri Jun 25 said:


> It always seems like a big oversight to me when libraries don't include a fair amount of prerecorded runs.


Actually, I think it's a very wise decision. Prerecorded runs or phrases rarely work because you can nearly always tell where the stitched-together sampled stuff ends and the prerecorded stuff takes over. There's something about the character, vitality and energy of a prerecorded run or phrase that makes it terribly difficult to blend with single-note samples. Furthermore, the reality of prerecorded material often makes the artificiality of a sampled patchwork stand out even more than it already does.

StringEssentials (P. Siedlaczek), for instance, has a pretty impressive (and tempo-controllable!) collection of stringruns, but in all those years I've only found truly good use for them on one single occasion: in a section of an arrangement that had nothing BUT stringruns. Quite often, the moment you glue a 'regular' sample before or after a run, the magic is broken at once.

So I don't know. The situation will probably change one day, but at the moment, I don't know of any stringlibrary that has an increased value because of its stringruns- or -phrases.

_


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## José Herring (Jun 25, 2010)

What's happening to me. I find myself agreeing more and more with re-pete these days.

I think this library is more impressive than most prerecorded run libraries but the difficulty that I find is that the runs are never the right notes for me. So I end up using the prerecorded runs blended in with runs done with single samples. I've even high passed prerecorded runs just to get the bow noise only.

It's difficult for me when the sample gets more complexed to fit the samples into my music. So I find samples that define a definite scale or key or even ensemble patches tend to really add a bit of "prefabbness" to a piece of music. 

But I fully admit that I may be too much of a purist. At any rate the library does offer some promise of being useful. I'm looking forward to more demos.

Jose


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## NYC Composer (Jun 25, 2010)

re-peat @ Fri Jun 25 said:


> Mike Connelly @ Fri Jun 25 said:
> 
> 
> > It always seems like a big oversight to me when libraries don't include a fair amount of prerecorded runs.
> ...



If I remember correctly, those runs were violins only ( Smart Violins)-and I didn't realize they were tempo controllable, did that come later? 

They sure sounded great to me, at least on the demos done for them.


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## re-peat (Jun 25, 2010)

Larry,

No, StringEssentials has runs for all the sections (although the violins have indeed more 'run'-options than the other sections). I can't remember if the tempo-control knob was already there in the first version of SE, but it's been definitely there ever since SE was updated for KontaktPlayer2 in 2007. (By the way, 'Smart Violins' is an entirely different library than 'StringEssentials'.)

_


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## NYC Composer (Jun 25, 2010)

re-peat @ Sat Jun 26 said:


> Larry,
> 
> No, StringEssentials has runs for all the sections (although the violins have indeed more 'run'-options than the other sections). I can't remember if the tempo-control knob was already there in the first version of SE, but it's been definitely there ever since SE was updated for KontaktPlayer2 in 2007. (By the way, 'Smart Violins' is an entirely different library than 'StringEssentials'.)
> 
> _



Ah. I must be thinking about Smart Violins then (I know it had runs), and not really know anything about String Essentials.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 25, 2010)

Being a fairly decent keyboard player myself, I've always played those runs and just kept playing them until they felt right, the rise in volume controlled with velocity, rarely quantized as that rarely works for me in runs. The thing I've always missed is that 'smush' factor, the smearing that goes on when real strings play runs.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 26, 2010)

NYC Composer @ Fri Jun 25 said:


> Being a fairly decent keyboard player myself, I've always played those runs and just kept playing them until they felt right, the rise in volume controlled with velocity, rarely quantized as that rarely works for me in runs. The thing I've always missed is that 'smush' factor, the smearing that goes on when real strings play runs.



That is where Craig's trick of mixing in the pre-recorded runs, even if they are not the right notes, helps. If you mix it very low you don't really hear the pitch discrepancy but you get the smearing. I can understand why some folks would find this objectionable but for me, it is fine.

Give it a try, Larry, and let me know what you think.


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## Jack Weaver (Jun 26, 2010)

If memory serves me, I believe that Jay Bacal has said that he has mixed in trills & trems in his string runs to give more smear.

.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 26, 2010)

Jack Weaver @ Sat Jun 26 said:


> If memory serves me, I believe that Jay Bacal has said that he has mixed in trills & trems in his string runs to give more smear.
> 
> .



Never heard of him :lol:


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## jamwerks (Jun 26, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Sat Jun 26 said:


> but you get the smearing. I can understand why some folks would find this objectionable but for me, it is fine.



Yes the smearing (or sweep as you said earlier) is really what these runs are about. And having 1 or two wrong notes in the "sweep" is something I've noticed with harps also. As long as (it seems to me) they aren't the defining steps of the scale.

Uberschal did some interesting "Liquid instruments" using the melodyne technology, and I could see that maybe working for runs. I'll have to put some fast stuff through the lastest melodyne to see at what speed point it quits accurately detecting pitches, and if varying a pitch or two produces unacceptable artifacts.

I may be alone on this (or almost), but I really think that these add on's should be recorded rather dry, so we can eventually match whatever ambience we've created for a certain mix. o-[][]-o


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## rgames (Jun 26, 2010)

Sounds good but I don't see what's new - VSL already has major/minor/chromatic and, I think, whole tone for each section.

And VI Pro is supposed to have tempo matching for the runs, right?

rgames


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## Jack Weaver (Jun 26, 2010)

Looking forward to the new VI Pro from VSL also. Especially for the time squeeze/compression for recorded runs, trills and dynamics - also for percussion.

However this new library seems to have musical figures other than pure directional octave runs which VSL offers to date. It seems closer in concept to Cinesamples' HollywoodWinds. 

So I'm keeping my eye on it. If it sounds good enough, has enough differing figures and is priced right it'll be a winner. If not, it could be a marginalized product.

.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 26, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Sat Jun 26 said:


> NYC Composer @ Fri Jun 25 said:
> 
> 
> > Being a fairly decent keyboard player myself, I've always played those runs and just kept playing them until they felt right, the rise in volume controlled with velocity, rarely quantized as that rarely works for me in runs. The thing I've always missed is that 'smush' factor, the smearing that goes on when real strings play runs.
> ...



Well, if I HAD some prerecorded tempo synced runs.....: ).

I'm pretty much about EWQLSO Platinum. Might look intoƒæ   õ]å²   ÚŸ   õ^å´   ÚÔ   õ_åµ   Ú5


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## muzicphiles (Jun 27, 2010)

nice product .... would love to see more videos of this one ! 
cheers


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## Fernando Warez (Jun 30, 2010)

This is very cool. I'll buy it if it's not too expensive. Any idea how much this is going to sell for? And will this be available through NI's web shop?

Thank you and good luck with this.


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## Animus (Jun 30, 2010)

How about just bring in runs as audio and run it through Melodyne or Variaudio and tweak it to your hearts delight?


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## NYC Composer (Jun 30, 2010)

Animus @ Wed Jun 30 said:


> How about just bring in runs as audio and run it through Melodyne or Variaudio and tweak it to your hearts delight?



This is true, but in the ideal, wouldn't you want your runs to be time locked to your sequence tempo?


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## Animus (Jun 30, 2010)

NYC Composer @ Wed Jun 30 said:


> Animus @ Wed Jun 30 said:
> 
> 
> > How about just bring in runs as audio and run it through Melodyne or Variaudio and tweak it to your hearts delight?
> ...



You can edit the time/duration in Melodyne and the like as well.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 30, 2010)

I mean automatically. Change your seq tempo, the runs automatically follow. Locked.


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## otr5 (Sep 6, 2010)

I just wonder if there is anything new about the strings runs lib
its september already


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## Sforzando (Sep 27, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jSxTXtBr0w


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## Jack Weaver (Sep 27, 2010)

Congratulations, Hendrik.

It looks like it will become a useful tool!

.


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## Dave Connor (Sep 27, 2010)

Exactly the word that came to mind Jack, useful. Just those sfz trills would be a nice addition.


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## c0mp0ser (Sep 27, 2010)

Really looking forward to this Hendrick. Congrats!


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## paoling (Sep 28, 2010)

The library sounds interesting, but above all, Hendrik, you are a very talented composer!
Your demos are terrific!

Congratulations...


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## NYC Composer (Sep 28, 2010)

Jack Weaver @ Mon Sep 27 said:


> Congratulations, Hendrik.
> 
> It looks like it will become a useful tool!
> 
> .



+1. I'm surprised a product like this hasn't hit the market before.


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## Pietro (Sep 28, 2010)

I love the sound!

- Piotr


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 29, 2010)

Yes! Very useful, I'm sure! o-[][]-o


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## stonzthro (Sep 29, 2010)

I wasn't totally sold until I heard the demo at the end - those runs sound fantastic!


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## EwigWanderer (Sep 29, 2010)

Fantastic!!! o-[][]-o


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## Rob Elliott (Sep 29, 2010)

Any half baked 'balanced' mix I might be able to stumble onto and this will be a shot of realism into any production. 

First thing I thought of would be nice is to dbl these runs with VSL's solo strings - bringing a bit of intimacy (and in accuracies) to them when needed (I actually like them like they are but nice to have options on 'smaller' / organic orchestrations.)

(perhaps a V2 - divisi runs). Heck he might already have the recordings sitting on a hard drive somewheres :wink:


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## lulgje (Sep 29, 2010)

Is this out yet?

I checked the KVR website but cannot find it. Anybody knows anything as for when exactly it's supposed to be available for purchase?


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## Sforzando (Sep 29, 2010)

lulgje @ Wed Sep 29 said:


> Is this out yet?
> 
> I checked the KVR website but cannot find it. Anybody knows anything as for when exactly it's supposed to be available for purchase?



The official site says "Will Open in a Few Days..."

www.orchestraltools.com


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## Frederick Russ (Sep 29, 2010)

This should be an interesting library - plus the demo is superb.


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## twinsinmind (Sep 30, 2010)

video about the builder here

http://www.youtube.com/hendrikschwarzer


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## Rob Elliott (Sep 30, 2010)

twinsinmind @ Thu Sep 30 said:


> video about the builder here
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/hendrikschwarzer




Good on you Hendrik - this WILL be very successful. You have a WELL conceived library here. This is assured a slot in my standing template.

When available? - I could use it today and save time :wink: 


Rob


(any plans to have the SAME library but with smaller sections? If so, sign me up for those as well.)


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Sep 30, 2010)

Thank you for the kind words and your congratulations 
I work very hard on it and I´m shure OSR will be a very helpfull and inspiring tool.

@Rob: At this point I must say, that I like your VSL-Demo "Jouney to Greatness" pretty much. It´s a cool composition... 
I think the release will be this october. At the moment there are no divisi-section planed. The recordings and the production were very expensive and it is a financial risk to do this library - but I´m absolutely convinced about the idea of the Runsbuilder and his results. I noticed that during the production of the demo-piece. It was very easy to bring OSR to the right sound. We will see which ways there will be in the future...



> Looks like it will quickly eat up RAM, which I guess is inevitable if it can't DFD for tempo-locked action. Purging will be very useful on this lib, I think.



I scripted a RAM-save script. If you put off a mic-position e.g. the samples will be purged. The same thing is with the Runsbuilder and the articulations. You only "pay" RAM for samples you really use.
OSR will be completely in 24bit and we think about a second 16bit version.

All the best,

Hendrik


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## Rob Elliott (Sep 30, 2010)

Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Thu Sep 30 said:


> @Rob: At this point I must say, that I like your VSL-Demo "Jouney to Greatness" pretty much. It´s a cool composition...
> I think the release will be this october. At the moment there are no divisi-section planed. The recordings and the production were very expensive and it is a financial risk to do this library - but I´m absolutely convinced about the idea of the Runsbuilder and his results. I noticed that during the production of the demo-piece. It was very easy to bring OSR to the right sound. We will see which ways there will be in the future...
> 
> Hendrik




Sounds good Hendrik. I think mixing this into ANY existing string library will be simple. When I want it a little smaller - I'll just dbl with solo or chamber strings. In my minds eye this is working well.

Thanks for the nice words on Journey to Greatness - this is over 6 years old - I really need to update that one.... (using new VIPRO, Bricasti, a few orchestration improvements, etc.)

Again best of fortunes to you Hendrik - you deserve the success I know you will receive with this release.


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## twinsinmind (Sep 30, 2010)

can you please tell something about the Expected Price range?


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## Jack Weaver (Sep 30, 2010)

Group Buy

Group Buy

Group Buy

.


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## Rob Elliott (Sep 30, 2010)

Jack Weaver @ Thu Sep 30 said:


> Group Buy
> 
> Group Buy
> 
> ...



Thanks a good idea Hendrik. You might 'grab' 30-40% of the market that would otherwise pass or wait for a 'sale'.


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## noiseboyuk (Sep 30, 2010)

Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Thu Sep 30 said:


> I scripted a RAM-save script. If you put off a mic-position e.g. the samples will be purged. The same thing is with the Runsbuilder and the articulations. You only "pay" RAM for samples you really use.
> OSR will be completely in 24bit and we think about a second 16bit version.



Sounds fantastic! I'm glad there's a 16 bit version too (no surprises there from me...)


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Oct 10, 2010)

Hey Guys,

I´ve uploded a new video about our playable runs-patch, which is based on legato-transitions and repetitions. Have fun...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlEQvg9ehKg

I will update our website orchestraltools.com this week, 
where you can find the pricing and all features listed.

All the best,

Hendrik


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## EwigWanderer (Oct 10, 2010)

Hendrik-Schwarzer @ 10.10.2010 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I´ve uploded a new video about our playable runs-patch, which is based on legato-transitions and repetitions. Have fun...
> 
> ...



Great news!! :D Can't wait..


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## Pzy-Clone (Oct 10, 2010)

hey thats pretty interesting....now the logical ( for me atleast ) question is :

Will you ever expand or consider expanding this lib beyond a "ensemble" type library?

I mean...this is all kewl and good n`all, but if you can make the ensemble patch sound this good doing fast runs in realtime, then why not expand it to a full featured string lib one day?

Or some solo winds for instance? We need some new u know...

ok ok im just thinking out loud, mostly my thoughts sound better in my head than when formulated verbaly, so do forgive my little off-topic rant 

Anyway, this looks very interesting nontheless...looking forward to it


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## futur2 (Oct 10, 2010)

Pzy-Clone @ Sun Oct 10 said:


> I mean...this is all kewl and good n`all, but if you can make the ensemble patch sound this good doing fast runs in realtime, then why not expand it to a full featured string lib one day?
> 
> Or some solo winds for instance? We need some new u know...



/\~O


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## germancomponist (Oct 12, 2010)

Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Sun Oct 10 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I´ve uploded a new video about our playable runs-patch, which is based on legato-transitions and repetitions. Have fun...
> 
> ...



These slur runs are interesting.


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## futur2 (Oct 12, 2010)

kb123 @ Tue Oct 12 said:


> I haven't found a price for this yet, I have a feelling its going to be expensive ....



on a german forum hendrik said it's going to be a bit more expensive than hollywoodwinds


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## EwigWanderer (Oct 19, 2010)

any news on this?


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## Udo (Oct 19, 2010)

The official site has been saying: "Will Open in a Few Days..." for about a month.

Maybe they're "German days", i.e. very thorough days that last a week or more each. :wink: .... I'd call them "lazy days", if they last that long - Hendrik, get moving


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## artinro (Oct 28, 2010)

Website has been updated with lots of new information:

http://www.orchestraltools.com/


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## noiseboyuk (Oct 28, 2010)

That's a pretty damn tempting pre-order price!

Hendrik, congrats it looks great. Can I sneak 2 requests in ahead of the launch? Since it's a K4 product, could the files be NCW? Also could you provide patches with just the individual mic positions? I suspect I'll just use the Decca tree, so don't want the memory footprint of the other 2 mic positions.

Roll on December...

EDIT - psst Hendrik, pedant alert, on the main page "The industries first RUNS BUILDER" should be "The industry's first RUNS BUILDER"


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Oct 28, 2010)

@noiseboyuk: Don´t worry about the mic-positions. You can make the several mic-positions on or off. If they are off the samples will be purged.
Kontakt loads samples only for mic-positions you really use. You can do this in real-time. The mic-swichtes are in every patch.

I tested several mic-positions and the best result you´ll get when you put all mic-positions on.

We think about the NCW-thing...

Thank you for your note about the website. I will improve this. Sorry I´m from Germany and I learned only to school-english :mrgreen:


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## Mike Connelly (Oct 28, 2010)

I'll second the lossless compression. Is there any real downside to that format?

Honestly, I'd be willing to pay a modest fee to get compressed versions of the libraries I already have. Compressing the files is easy but I assume going back and getting NI to do the encoding for the locked/monolithic libraries may be inconvenient or costly.


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## Mike Connelly (Oct 28, 2010)

About how big is the library?


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## Daniel (Oct 28, 2010)

1hour before I visited your website Hendrik and still "will open in a few days.." and just know I visit this forum that I knew you've opened the website :wink: 
Could I know please about the system requirements of OSR, and how many GB as a download product,,,thanks Hendrik 

Regards,
Daniel


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## dannthr (Oct 28, 2010)

Is it just strings?

I mean, is it just "String Runs" or are there section runs? Because the latter is what I would love to see.


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## noiseboyuk (Oct 28, 2010)

Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Thu Oct 28 said:


> @noiseboyuk: Don´t worry about the mic-positions. You can make the several mic-positions on or off. If they are off the samples will be purged.
> Kontakt loads samples only for mic-positions you really use. You can do this in real-time. The mic-swichtes are in every patch.
> 
> I tested several mic-positions and the best result you´ll get when you put all mic-positions on.
> ...



Cheers for all that Hendrik, sounds good!

I don't think there is a downside to ncw - any cpu hit is minuscule it seems - except if you need samples to be shared with an earlier version of Kontakt for any reason. On a new library, I'd say it was a no brainer.


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## Daniel (Oct 28, 2010)

dannthr @ 28th October 2010 said:


> Is it just strings?
> I mean, is it just "String Runs" or are there section runs? Because the latter is what I would love to see.



Hi Dan,
When I watch the 2nd video in the web (OSR Runs Builder), Hendrik said "...the complete strings in this demo are made with OSR..." -->3:15 - 3:18
and I watched & heard by time 3:27 - 3:55, the strings with keyboard mode shown the demo is non-section runs...sorry if I am wrong.. o/~ 

Regards,
Daniel


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## Frederick Russ (Oct 28, 2010)

On a related note, apparently Hendrik also knows his way around a real orchestra.

Check out the following video:


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## Ed (Oct 28, 2010)

Pzy-Clone @ Sun Oct 10 said:


> Or some solo winds for instance? We need some new u know...



It would be so cool to have this kind of library for wood sections, much easier to pull of Williams impressions!


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## dedersen (Oct 28, 2010)

That's a really good pre-order price. Very tempting, indeed. And it sounds like a really good product, judging by the demos. Best of luck with this, Hendrik.


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## Rob Elliott (Oct 28, 2010)

dedersen @ Thu Oct 28 said:


> That's a really good pre-order price. Very tempting, indeed. And it sounds like a really good product, judging by the demos. Best of luck with this, Hendrik.




For the freaking time is takes me to 'construct' anything close to this with existing libraries - this $300 preorder price is a no brainer. For me EVERYTHING is an hourly rate. :wink:


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## dannthr (Oct 28, 2010)

I love the structural modular approach, I would love to see an exhaustive list of all the structures and would be interested to know if there are 5s and 7s as well as the 3s and 4s--otherwise we'll have to "trick" the beat matching or do some odd thing that I wouldn't be as hip to.


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## noiseboyuk (Oct 28, 2010)

Dunno if it helps, Dan, but you can clearly read the names in the youtube vid (in HD, anyway). They are listed as:

Triplet down
Triplet up
16th figure
16th up
Sfz trills
Triplets figure 1
Triplets figure 2
2 steps down
4th / 5th runs up
4th / 5th runs down


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## groove (Oct 28, 2010)

Will we be able to buy without taxes if we provide a VAT number ?
even for the pre-order ?
great product, I'll buy it...without taxes


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## burp182 (Oct 28, 2010)

When I tried to order (after registering) it didn't recognize that I was in the US and therefore wasn't subject to the VAT. How do I make it see this and correct the price accordingly?
Oh, and by the way, Hendrik....holy crap! This is wonderful.


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## wolf (Oct 28, 2010)

says "Official Release on 1st December 2010 as a download-product." - so no UPS and customs involved 8)


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Oct 29, 2010)

Hey Guys,

*here some infos to TAX-topic:*
In Germany we have 19% TAX on OSR (this is included in this pre-order $299.- special). I mean all customers outside of the EU don´t have to pay this TAX. The shop can´t do this in an automatic way at the moment but we work on it.
I will ask on monday/ tuesday a specialist if we have to pay a special TAX directly to USA or if in this case OSR is TAX-free for all customers outside the EU.
Of course we will pay out the taxes to our customers via PayPal. Don´t worry about that. 

Sorry for that inconvenience. This is our start-up and our shop is just one day old  We´ll improve these things in the next days.

All the best and happy pre-order, :mrgreen: 

Hendrik


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## EwigWanderer (Nov 11, 2010)

You can now find a pdf from http://www.orchestraltools.com/ about articulations and other info.


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## noiseboyuk (Nov 12, 2010)

Dammit. I was all set to go for this, when I played the HS runs demos again - bumblebee and especially Vivaldi. Sad to say, it sounds in another league. I REALLY want to like OSR, and without doubt it'll do me better than what I have now, but.... I wonder now if I should hold off til I eventually get the new PC and HS...


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## Pochflyboy (Nov 12, 2010)

I just placed my pre-order. Are downloads set to open first thing on Dec 1st or will there be waiting based on who paid first. How will this work? 

I am excited to try out this new product!


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Nov 13, 2010)

At the moment you can calculate with the 1st December for release.
We will book a second server for the first 2 weeks, to get a better download-rate for our pre-order customers.

The blending of OSR with other string libraries is easy and sounds good to me.
We´ve sampled everything in 3 Mic-positions. So you have control over the ambience and we´ve basic articulations like sustains and rep. staccatos.
With these basic-articulations you can blend slowly over the any other string library.

I use the Todd AO impulse with Altiverb and I think, that Altiverb is very good for better blending between different libraries.

If you ask me for similar string-sounds. I would tell you Symphobia, VSL Appas, etc.
OSR tends more to the bigger sections.
But I work mostly with SISS and I would say, that SISS sounds a little bit thinner than the VSL Appas. OSR and SISS works perfect to me.

I decided to record OSR with a big instrumentation, because samples sounds smaller and thinner, than real instruments.
That is my expirience in working with real orchestras...


All the best,

Hendrik


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## KMuzzey (Nov 13, 2010)

OK, I gotta say: when I first saw the posting title, I thought, "String runs? Who needs that... that's too specific" -- and now that I've listened to the demos, I'm all, "OMG I need this right now. Can't live without it." And it runs in Kontakt, which is a big win. I'm all about Kontakt these days. SOLD!

Kerry


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## EwigWanderer (Nov 15, 2010)

I just placed my pre-order too...Can't wait to get it=)


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## noiseboyuk (Nov 28, 2010)

Hmm. Pre-order time nearly up, and I'm very much on the fence. Hendrik promised some more demos... any sign, Hendrik?


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## noiseboyuk (Nov 29, 2010)

In the abscence of new demos, have been obsessively listening to the existing ones again on the site, and I'm 80% leaning towards buying. Of the three demos there the playable runs one is definitely the weakest, that still sounds synthy to me. But the other two demos, using the runs builder and basic ensemble patches I guess, are considerably stronger. 

The Majestic Runs demo is way better - the run up at the start is absolutely spot on. The figures in the main body are also good. Oddly, when I hear them isolated in the first impressions youtube demo, they sound even more convincing!

The star of the show is definitely Catching One Dream (and not just because it's a fantastic composition). The runs starting at 50s to the end are completely convincing to my ears. I wonder if part of this is because it's slightly further back in the mix?

The thing that's bringing me round is that the product won't be a complete overlap of HS, as and when I finally get it. From the demos, HS's playable runs are better, and their basic runs might have an edge too. But of course OSR covers considerably more ground than this, and have a few convincing options of different kinds of runs is invaluable.

EDIT - now leaned 100%!


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## stonzthro (Nov 30, 2010)

Yeah - totally useful for what I do - ordered last week - can't wait to throw it onto a project I'm working on now.


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 1, 2010)

It's December 1st... midday in Germany...


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## Udo (Dec 1, 2010)

".......... we will send now the download-link to every customer manually. 
So you will get the downloadlink in 1 or 2 hours... 

All the best, Hendrik".


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## Gerd Kaeding (Dec 1, 2010)

Download is a nightmare .

Although I have a very fast internet connection the download speed is at 75kB/sec .

But what is more frustrating : The server crashes frequently .

Then , when trying to continue this download the former downloaded file will be replaced , not continued .


Edit :

Server failed and interrupted for the 4th time now.


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 1, 2010)

No server at all here now. Guess Hendrik is swamped!


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## mike753 (Dec 1, 2010)

Well, I've received the download links and the serial number today. So far so good.

BUT

The download does not really work at all here. And I have a pretty fast internet connection. While the download of the first rar-file started with around 400 - 450 KB/s, it suddenly slowed down dramatically down to 34 KB/s and less until it stopped. This was in Safari (I did not use any download manager, as we have been advised). So I swapped to Firefox to continue and tried to download part 2 and 3, then I gave up.

While every rar-file is supposed to be 700 MB in size, the first part stopped at 283,3 MB, the second at 111,9 MB, and the third at 32,4 MB. Again, I didn't use any download manager. Could be that everyone is downloading now which would slow down the server, but then there must be something wrong with the server settings, I think.

Anyone else having issues with the download?

Best
Michael


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## mike753 (Dec 1, 2010)

mike753 @ Wed 01 Dec said:


> Anyone else having issues with the download?
> l



OK, sorry, the previous posters have already answered that question ... 

Best 
Michael


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## Tmon (Dec 1, 2010)

Server issues here as well...


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 1, 2010)

seems there are server issues across the board. It will be interesting to see what happens next but I will not try again till there is a remedy.


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## Mike Connelly (Dec 1, 2010)

Got my link, unfortunately I have to wait until I get home to do the download. Very excited to try it out.


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 1, 2010)

It's probably far too late in the day to do anything about this, but I noticed that Hendrik has 16 and 24 bit versions available. It would halve the server demand if we chose which we wanted to download (even with the option of later downloading the other version).


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## Frederick Russ (Dec 1, 2010)

Craig Sharmat @ Wed Dec 01 said:


> seems there are server issues across the board. It will be interesting to see what happens next but I will not try again till there is a remedy.



Agreed, noticed this as well. With every new development there always appears to be a learning curve for smooth throughput to be sorted out.


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## EwigWanderer (Dec 1, 2010)

Got my link also today. I'm at work now and was exited to get home fast, but if there seems to be problems with the server so...damn..I hope they are doing something about it..and that they even now about it..


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Dec 1, 2010)

We have server-problems at the moment. I´m sorry for that...

We´ve checked the recources before the release. But now we had much more orders on the 2 last days.

The other thing is, that we had mass-accesses of two different IP-addresses.
We could lock these IP-addresses and I don´t know why we had this attack...

I talked with the data center and together with them we are searching for a solution with more capacities and additional servers.
But so shortly that is a very challenging thing.

We have a really BIG server-setup. For me that is absolutely unintelligible.

I will give you more news shortly...

I think that we´ve solved this problem latest until tomorrow...


All the best,
Hendrik


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## sonomusic (Dec 1, 2010)

Hendrick,

Please don't lock ip addresses. 

In my case, I received the links and just clicked on the .rars and my download manger grabbed them and it worked. 

Usually, the server will simply refuse additional connections and that's what your email indicates should have happened. Sorry, I didn't read through the whole email before I started. So when it took them I didn't give it a second thought. 

Thanks.


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## gsilbers (Dec 1, 2010)

soo... will it still be at 299? 

ill buy it when the server thing settle


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Dec 1, 2010)

at sonomusic:
The IP-addreses we´ve locked opned a very very high amount of ports.
That´s not possible with a normal download-manager...
But this problem is fixed. The other one is, that the memories (RAMs) were on a very high amount. So the CPUs worked perfectly. That´s the info I got from the data center. 

now we´ve limited the access to the server-system.
Now everyone who has a working download now, can load the files normaly.
The other ones have to wait until a "place" for download is free.

I know, that is not a permanent solution. But we have to organize the downloads the first hours.

We´re checking to create a server-cluster or something else to make the download-process more liquid...
But that can´t be done before tomorrow...


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## sonomusic (Dec 1, 2010)

Thanks, Hendrick.

I was going to say, in my case anyhow, it only opened a couple ports at a time and then would only run a few concurrently. 

Anyhow, thank you for your product. I look forward to using it.


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## groove (Dec 1, 2010)

Got my link and downloaded one RAR file then suddenly I couldn't connect anymore...this is the message I've got :

"Service Temporarily Unavailable

The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later.
Apache/2.2.14 (Ubuntu) Server at www.orchestraltools.com Port 80"

So frustrating to start the process and to be cut in the middle of the download...please fix this as soon as you can.

Regards


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## Gerd Kaeding (Dec 1, 2010)

Hi Hendrik ,

now download is getting much smoother .

Downloading the first RAR-file took some 3 hours , with a download speed of some 50kB/sec .

But nowò  ‡   Äp.  ‡   Äp§  ‡   Äy  ‡   Äy¹  ‡   Ä–&  ‡   Ä–P  ‡   Ä–ˆ  ‡   Ä–´  ‡   Ä™}  ‡   Äš5  ‡   ÄœÙ  ‡   Äœî  ‡   Ä  ‡   Ä  ‡   Ä¡ö  ‡   Ä£  ‡   Ä¦‚  ‡   Ä¦—  ‡   Ä¨  ‡   Ä¨  ‡   Ä¯  ‡   Ä¯  ‡   Ä»@  ‡   Ä»Z  ‡   Ä¿Ö  ‡   ÄÀ  ‡   ÄÃ  ‡   ÄÄÞ  ‡   ÄÔæ  ‡   ÄÕ=  ‡   ÄÕå  ‡   ÄÖE


----------



## c0mp0ser (Dec 1, 2010)

Congrats on your release Hendrick!

If you need any help or suggestions let us know. There is no download solution that is 100% satisfactory to everyone. But one that has been most reliable for us is the Amazon S3 server. It's relatively inexpensive, and extremely robust. It allows for unlimited connections.

Even with that though, some people still have issues (always due to their ISP throttling connection)...

Ugh, the joys of selling digital goods.


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Dec 1, 2010)

Hey Mike,

that´s so true )

Thank you for this info. I will check this out...


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## VSTiMan (Dec 1, 2010)

Still experiencing problems here.

We are able to get to the personalized download page.

But then every time we click one of the .rar download links, it states "503 Service Temporarily Unavailable".

Looking forward towards a smoother experience in the near future.


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## Hannesdm (Dec 1, 2010)

Maybe this can help some people:

My download link didn't work too, but it did after I deleted the "www."

Downloading the first of the 10 rar's as we speak. It will be a long wait..


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## EwigWanderer (Dec 1, 2010)

Hannesdm @ 12.1.2010 said:


> Maybe this can help some people:
> 
> My download link didn't work too, but it did after I deleted the "www."
> 
> Downloading the first of the 10 rar's as we speak. It will be a long wait..



Thanks!! This seems to work here =) Speed is great too..1.1Mb/s


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## stonzthro (Dec 1, 2010)

Just keep clicking on them every few minutes and you'll get them - I've got about 7 dl'd now


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 1, 2010)

Hendrick - I went to add library on k4.1, pointed it at the folder, but it said "no library found"....


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Dec 1, 2010)

at noiseboyuk:

Okay I´ve done the same like you.
I´ve unrar-ed the rar-patches into the same folder.
Now I had the folder "orchestral_string_runs" and in this folder I had a second folder "Orchestral String Runs".
Now you´ve to point in Konatkt to this folder "Orchestral String Runs".
That´s it...


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 1, 2010)

I'll do a reboot when I get home... Maybe Kontakt got grumpy?! Is there any particular file it looks for, I'll double check it's there ok.


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Dec 1, 2010)

You must have the following structure:

Folder: Documentation
Folder: Instruments
Folder: Samples

File: Orchestral String Runs_info.nkc
File: Orchestral String Runs_info.nkx


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## Gerd Kaeding (Dec 1, 2010)

Hendrik ,

your library seems to be great . The sound is quite lush and is definitely nice .
Blending it with LASS is great . The same with Hollywoodstrings ... .
So , great work here , Hendrik !!!



However :

from within Logic 9.1.3 it is not possible for me to load any "RunsBuilder" Patch into Kontakt 4.1.

Logic will crash after 3 minutes of Kontakt4.1 trying to load the "footprints" ( ... to be clear here : ... before loading any samples !!! ... and without having finished the process of loading the full amount of infos/footprints for such a patch ... ) .

This happens in a _completely empty_ Song . 

_ _ _ _ 

On Mac , loading times for "Runsbuilder Patches" are definitely _very_ long .
Even in standalone mode , for example the "Violins/RunsBuilder" Patch takes _at least_ 4 - 5 minutes to load. This is true for both 16bit and 24bit samples .


Loading a 4GB setup of LASS into Kontakt goes much faster than loading a single "Runsbuilder Patch" of OSR .


_ _ _ _ 



My specs :

MacPro 2.8 , 8Core ;
OS X 10.6.4
18GB RAM
Kontakt 4.1
Logic 9.1.3

OSR is on a WD Caviar Black 640 , with 240GB free space .



Edit :

1. 
No way to use it within Logic . Logic crashes when trying to load RunsBuilder Patches .

Hendrik , have you ever tested your library in Logic ??


2.
It works with K4.1 in VEPRO (Mac / 64bit), however , you cannot use the "Sync-button" on the OSR GUI for "Halftime" or "Doubletime" .

This way I have to record a passage (which actually is in 120bpm) with OSR in 60bpm , bounce this part , and then continue the cue in 120bpm .

3.
PT8 on Mac won't crash when loading the RunsBuilder Patches , however it freezes more or less , because the patch cannot be loaded completely.

- - - - - -

Due to the fact that I can load the patches into VEPRO I assume that the issues are not related to corrupted files .


----------



## Udo (Dec 1, 2010)

autopilot @ Thu Dec 02 said:


> Hannesdm @ Wed Dec 01 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe this can help some people:
> ...


That's only coincidence. Both relate to the same Iò  ‡   ç®  ‡   ç‘  ‡   ç‘†  ‡   ç’  ‡   ç”€  ‡   ç•  ‡   ç—


----------



## autopilot (Dec 1, 2010)

The Runs Builder Crashed Logic for me as well


----------



## autopilot (Dec 1, 2010)

Actually I correct that - the 16bit version crashed -24 bit works


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 1, 2010)

Yay, got it recognised now. Not sure what I was doing wrong before, but it found it instantly this time round.

FIRST IMPRESSIONS

As others have said, there are some serious load time issues. The Runs Builder took about 10 minutes for me (standalone K 4.1, 32 bit). The basic runs patch also took a few minutes. In both cases they kept stalling and restarting.

It's going to take a while to get round it all. The Runs Builder, once loaded looks pretty efficient and useful, sounds very good for the most part. However, I do hear occasional artefacts. These are far worse in the basic runs patch, unfortunately, where some of the runs are unusable at the moment across a variety of tempos (for example, a 2 octave up and down Fmaj run has clicking all over it at 100 - 120 bpm - slower tempos work fine). Some patches have a strange boingy sound underneath them too. I'm pretty sure it's not a real sound of anything from the instrument. More positively, the patches that are clean show just how good and useful the library is, however.

The biggest good surprise is the playable run patch (named the Runs Transition Patch). I wasn't keen on the demos, but just noodling sounds pretty hopeful.

It's only the very first cursory flick round. I think without doubt it'll be a useful tool in the palette. Exactly how useful depends on how the product develops. The load time (and crashing in some hosts it seems) obviously has to be addressed ASAP. I'm hoping that some of the artefacts might be minimised as well in time.

I'll try and give this a better evaluation in the next couple of days.


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## autopilot (Dec 1, 2010)

And 16bit works now too - maybe just a first run thingy ... BTW - this is sounding great!! I can;t wait to take these out on a run through my Christmas Special next week


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## stonzthro (Dec 1, 2010)

This is going to be very useful for sure. I love the runs builder (I'd like to see a HWW update similar to this) - more dissonant runs would be great for an update, and cc11 on all patches would be nice too. 

Great product!!!

@ Gerd - I have almost the exact setup and it all is working fine here. Doesn't fix your problem, but at least others will know it works.


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## Gerd Kaeding (Dec 1, 2010)

stonzthro @ Wed Dec 01 said:


> T
> 
> @ Gerd - I have almost the exact setup and it all is working fine here. Doesn't fix your problem, but at least others will know it works.



Hey stonzthro , thanks for the info !

Do you use Logic , too ?

Well , hope there's a solution for my issues ... .


Anyway , thanks for your feedback .

Best ,

Gerd


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## stonzthro (Dec 1, 2010)

Yep Logic and I've been able to load both the 16 and 24bit versions. maybe your .rar for that segment was corrupted? Not sure if that could be the case since they all seem to unzip as a single conglomerate...

Wish I could be of more help.


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Dec 2, 2010)

Hey Guys,

The loading-times at the beginning are slower when you´re loading a "tempo-synced"-patch. That´s because Kontakt has to analyse every sample for the TimeMachine2.
In extreme tempos, you can hear some audio-artifacts. That´s because Kontakt has to calculate the nearest run-sample to the target-tempo.
My expirience with runs in extreme tempos is, that these artifacts will be nearly hidden in the complete mix.

we´ve tested OSR under Logic too with our beta-testers and it works fine.
I don´t know if that is a problem of one user only or if there have more users this kind of problem. If you have Logic and problems in working with OSR, please write me a pm.

All the best,

Hendrik


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 2, 2010)

One quick suggestion Hendrik - would it be possible to create patches which load only one mic position? I see in the manual you recommend all three as it helps keep the artefacts low, but often the 1 position works great in my early experience. I appreciate you can unload the mic positions, but obviously one advantage of doing a single-mic version is that load times are instantly reduced by a third!

I'm pretty clueless on Kontakt scripting, but I wonder if there is a way to load those runs-builder figures when you actually individually select them in the runs builder, and not at patch launch? I guess typically you might only use 2 or 3 out of the 10 there.

Just wanted to re-iterate - so much of this library sounds great out of the box, and I appreciate this is day one on your first product - well, day two. I'm sure you have a hit on your hands!


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## autopilot (Dec 2, 2010)

Hey all - as I mentioned earlier the OSR crashed for me the first time I used it, but reloading Kontakt was a definite plus.

+1 on mics too! But this feels at the mo like a seriously good hole filler for my orchestra.


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## Hannesdm (Dec 2, 2010)

Everything works fine over here! Except some artefacts here and there on the runs patches and the violins figures.

I'm on Logic 9.1.3 (64bit), Mac OSX 10.6.4.

Also a big thumb up for the runs transition patch!

Below is a small snippet of me playing the transition patch for the first time. 
No automatisation or editing. So don't mind the playing. :wink: 
This is how it sounds out of the box. (Although, I first toyed a bit with the attack and curve knob and raised the volume of the tree and ortf mics a bit)

http://www.box.net/shared/db6h8uz7l6


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## Siggi Mueller (Dec 2, 2010)

Gerd Kaeding @ Wed Dec 01 said:


> Edit :
> 
> 1.
> No way to use it within Logic . Logic crashes when trying to load RunsBuilder Patches .
> ...



Hi Gerd,

i have a similar setup and i have no crashes. i´m in 64bit.

The sync button is bit strange. Try to click with the mouse on it and while you are clicking move the mouse to the right.

best, siggi


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 2, 2010)

I've just uploaded a little arpeggio demo comparing the OSR runs transition patch with Symphobia's basic short staccato patch. Nothing clever, just a bit of room round each, identical midi data. Only took a few minutes, and I've no doubt some tweaking would improve it a fair amount.

1st version is OSR, 2nd is Symphobia.

http://www.box.net/shared/yu7og5ursu


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## germancomponist (Dec 2, 2010)

noiseboyuk @ Thu Dec 02 said:


> I've just uploaded a little arpeggio demo comparing the OSR runs transition patch with Symphobia's basic short staccato patch. Nothing clever, just a bit of room round each, identical midi data. Only took a few minutes, and I've no doubt some tweaking would improve it a fair amount.
> 
> 1st version is OSR, 2nd is Symphobia.
> 
> http://www.box.net/shared/yu7og5ursu



The velocity on your Symphobia demo is not well controlled. The "1".. are too loud. That said, sorry to say that, but Symphobia is sounding better/more convincing to my ears.

But sure, thats only me and my ears.... . o/~


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## Gerd Kaeding (Dec 2, 2010)

Siggi Mueller @ Thu Dec 02 said:


> Gerd Kaeding @ Wed Dec 01 said:
> 
> 
> > Edit :
> ...



Hi Siggi ,
thanks a lot for your feedback and info ! Much appreciated !!

On my system I narrowed down the issues to running Kontakt within a 32bit host versa 64bit host .

While *everything works fine in Kontakt (standalone mode) and from within * VEPRO (*64bit*) , the issues occur in Logic 32bit , PlogueBidule 32bit and ProTools32bit .

However , these issues currently seem to occur only on my setup .


Within VEPRO 64bit everything works great. 

Here a tip concerning loading times (Mac) :
While loading times in Kontakt standalone are a little bit slow for Runsbuilder Patches
you can speed up loading times _dramatically _when you load them into a VEPRO (64bi) instance and save this ".viframe" . Such a Instance will load the Runsbuilder Patches within seconds !!! 


By the way , Hendriks support is _outstanding_ . 
@ Hendrik : thanks for your help and interest !!!


- - - 


*The library itself , and especially its Runsbuilder , is absolutely great . 

Hendrik did a terrific job here !!!*



Best wishes


Gerd


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Dec 2, 2010)

@Sonomusic:

All rar-files have the size of +- 700MB
The last file is +- 500MB

Is that true on your downloaded files?


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 2, 2010)

germancomponist @ Thu Dec 02 said:


> noiseboyuk @ Thu Dec 02 said:
> 
> 
> > I've just uploaded a little arpeggio demo comparing the OSR runs transition patch with Symphobia's basic short staccato patch. Nothing clever, just a bit of room round each, identical midi data. Only took a few minutes, and I've no doubt some tweaking would improve it a fair amount.
> ...



It's a fair cop on the emphasis! I'd initially adjusted them to sound right to my ears in OSR, but they're not right for Symphobia. I'll probably do a 2nd version tomorrow corrected for the latter, and maybe a few more flowing runs which is probably this patch's forte. Even so, I prefer the slightly more smeary OSR to symphobia even for arpeggios myself.


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## sonomusic (Dec 2, 2010)

> @Sonomusic:
> 
> All rar-files have the size of +- 700MB
> The last file is +- 500MB
> ...



Yes, Hendrick, that was exactly the problem. I had two downloads that had stopped and I just hit the pause/resume button and they picked back up. They were far short of the 700mb.

I'm redownloading them now and not expecting any problems after that.

I'm very thankful for your help on this board.


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Dec 2, 2010)

perfect...
I´m shure we´ll solve all these little start-up problems and questions


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## KMuzzey (Dec 2, 2010)

The runs builder is also crashing my Logic (9.2 but running in 32-bit) when I open the Kontakt 4.1x AU from within Logic.

Hendrik, will the runs builder just not work in Logic if you're running in 32-bit mode? I really don't want the answer for everything to be "just launch it in VE Pro" -- are you working on a fix for those of us still running 32-bit Logic? Unfortunately until iLok figures out 64-bit mode, I'm stuck in 32.

Help.

Kerry


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## KMuzzey (Dec 2, 2010)

The runs builder is also crashing my Logic (9.2 but running in 32-bit) when I open the Kontakt 4.1x AU from within Logic.

Hendrik, will the runs builder just not work in Logic if you're running in 32-bit mode? I really don't want the answer for everything to be "just launch it in VE Pro" -- are you working on a fix for those of us still running 32-bit Logic? Unfortunately until iLok figures out 64-bit mode, I'm stuck in 32.

Help.

Kerry


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## Nick Harvey (Dec 2, 2010)

Hi Kerry.

It works fine with me within Logic (32 bit mode). Hope you get it fixed soon.

I've only been playing around with it for a short while but I'm very impressed with the results I'm getting.

Nick


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## groove (Dec 2, 2010)

Hi Hendrik

SO far everything is working fine here (Mac OSX 10.5.8 on Nuendo 5) after the download issue that was solved by the www tip 

After playing a bit with your great library one question pops into my mind...why didn't you record systematically major AND minor runs ??? 

you did a lot already but some will be soon missing now that you provided us with that amazing tool.

like for the bass & celli spicato run / Vi & Va basic run spicato / Vi figures (no minor mode with CC1)

Maybe you are planing a near update but I wanted to ask to understand your logic behind that decision.

Thanks again.
Stephane


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## KMuzzey (Dec 2, 2010)

Hmmm.... not sure why mine keeps crashing with runbuilder. But the regular patches work fine... and they sound fantastic. This is gonna be a killer tool to have in the arsenal! Sent a separate support request to Hendrik to try and figure out the issue... will post back here with any info in case anyone else is having the same problem.

Kerry


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Dec 2, 2010)

@KMuzzy: Hi Kerry, I´m here 

Thank you for the kind words on OSR...

Can you send me your special system-specs via mail or pm?
Gerd Keading has the same problem like you...
Normaly working with Logic and OSR is no problem, but it seems like some logic users with special specs or setups have this problem.

Today I talked with NI and they meant, that the OSR script normaly must work on every system. So maybe that is a problem between Kontakt´s TimeMachine2 and Logic.
Now we will test OSR again with the same system-specs you have and then we can work on a solution for that.
Now I noticed that 3 users have this kind of problem.

@Stephane: In the basic runs-patches you can choose between major and minor via mod-wheel. We sampled more major runs, some with a special figure-style or as a spicc-version...
The complete overview over all available runs you can see in our articulation chart pdf on our website or in the documentation-folder of OSR.

All the best,

Hendrik


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## Mike Connelly (Dec 2, 2010)

Hendrik, it looks like the manual and articulation PDF files don't have searchable text (maybe the pages are graphic files instead of text). If it's possible to do a version with searchable text, it would be really handy to be able to just search for something like "figures" and go straight to it instead of having to flip through all the pages.

Thanks for the library, sounds great so far.


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 3, 2010)

noiseboyuk @ Thu Dec 02 said:


> germancomponist @ Thu Dec 02 said:
> 
> 
> > noiseboyuk @ Thu Dec 02 said:
> ...



Hmm. I've just been playing a little more - evening-out Symphobia was straightforward enough. And yup, cold light of day, I agree actually - Symphobia does sound better on arpeggios.. I guess it is more designed for sequential notes. I'll take down the demo actually, not much use for anyone!


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Dec 3, 2010)

Arpeggios sounding great...
You had a slower tempo. The RUNS TRANSITION PATCH is designed for playable fast runs. In the case of your demo I would check out a little bit more Attack. The thing is, that you had sometimes gaps during one note to the other so you´ll loosing this "smearing"-effect and natural legato. The other demo had the perfect tempo...
So check it out with a faster tempo or tweak a little bit on Attack, Courve, etc. ...


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## wqaxsz (Dec 3, 2010)

noiseboyuk @ Fri Dec 03 said:


> http://www.box.net/shared/yu7og5ursu





noiseboyuk @ Thu Dec 02 said:


> Hmm. I've just been playing a little more - evening-out Symphobia was straightforward enough. And yup, cold light of day, I agree actually - Symphobia does sound better on arpeggios.. I guess it is more designed for sequential notes. I'll take down the demo actually, not much use for anyone!






Nice music. I find it difficult to compare both.

There's always - ALWAYS - something more important to worry about than 24 bit
Yes 16 bit.


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## groove (Dec 3, 2010)

Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Thu Dec 02 said:


> @Stephane: In the basic runs-patches you can choose between major and minor via mod-wheel. We sampled more major runs, some with a special figure-style or as a spicc-version...
> The complete overview over all available runs you can see in our articulation chart pdf on our website or in the documentation-folder of OSR.
> 
> 
> Hendrik



Hi Hendrik,

I basically knew what you are saying here but my question remains...why are they some runs that you didn't record with minor options ?

Great product anyway

cheers


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Dec 3, 2010)

Oh, you want to know the whole story 

We had a folder full of scores for these runs, figures, RUNS-BUILDER -footprints, sustains, staccatos and the Runs Transition Patch.
And we had "extra" scores if there is more time during the recording sessions.
The first concept was to record only octave up, octave down and maybe two octaves up, two octaves down, because we had this Idea for the RUNS BUILDER, which is the major part of OSR which makes runs more liquid to use...
But of course we had much more ideas and I had some special wishes, like these up-down-up or down-up+2octaves,... And at the end we had a much bigger folder 
Then we booked an additional session for all our wishes. And what you have is this result.

It is an illusion to record and sample EVERYTHING. When you produce a library like this you have to decide what is important and what do you want to record.
We had more than 50 professional musicians on the scoring-stage.
I´m 23 years old, I´ve expiriences in working with real orchestras for my clients.
But this was our own project and it was one of my biggest risky things I´ve ever done...


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## Mike Connelly (Dec 3, 2010)

Maybe I'm missing something obvious...in the runs builder, is there a way to get a single note to end a run or phrase?


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 3, 2010)

Mike Connelly @ Fri Dec 03 said:


> Maybe I'm missing something obvious...in the runs builder, is there a way to get a single note to end a run or phrase?



The modwheel up.

Hendrik, FYI I've started working on some slimmer patches. Starting with the violin+viola basic runs, I see it's pretty easy to remove the groups for the other mic positions, so I've created a Decca only 16 bit violin+viola runs patch very quickly. That's 68mb, which is pretty handy. Loading is still quite slow though - improved of course from the full version, but it still waits quite a long time (1-2 minutes) before actually loading the samples. Obviously anything you can do to help would be great!

The Runs builder is a much trickier prospect. Seriously, this is a 10-15 minute load in standalone, so it's not really practical at all at the moment imho. I've just done a single mic position patch, and that has cut it by a third which is far more manageable, but it's still a long time. The solution, I think, will be trying to only load the samples you use within runbuilder - doing the loading when you select, say, violin figure 1 within the instrument itself. Do you think this will be possible? Incidentally, RAM use on this patch is excellent - under 30MB with two figures loaded. However, I seem to have broken the modwheel staccato on my Decca-only nki, even though the group is still there!

I do still here a fair few artefacts. It seems to vary quite a bit between different tempos and individual samples. Personally I blame Time Machine 2... I seem to remember that Cinesamples wrote their own proprietary script that was more artefact-free for HWW. I agree though that in a mix, you'll get away with more.


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Dec 3, 2010)

@Mike:
You can add single-notes with the mod-wheel.
If you put the mod-wheel up, you´ll hear a stacc-note only.
In the middle range of the mod-wheel you´ll add an akcent on the first note of a footprint... That´s perfect for more energetic phrases!

@groove:
at the moment we have a really, really huge range of pre-recorded runs and they are all tempo-synced...
But we´ll see what the future will bring us to fill our Templates :mrgreen:


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## germancomponist (Dec 3, 2010)

noiseboyuk @ Fri Dec 03 said:


> I do still here a fair few artefacts. It seems to vary quite a bit between different tempos and individual samples. Personally I blame Time Machine 2... I seem to remember that Cinesamples wrote their own proprietary script that was more artefact-free for HWW. I agree though that in a mix, you'll get away with more.



Guy, can you perhaps do a short example (maybe a pattern) what begins in a slow tempo and is getting faster and faster then? This would be cool! 

I would like to listen to the poor sound from one OSR instrument, lets say the 1. violins. o/~ 

Thanks

Gunther


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 5, 2010)

Oooh, found a good trick to load the run builder instantly in standalone, which also explains why the VE Pro loading has been working for some). Load it once into Kontakt. Voila - then the patch loads almost instantly! The same trick works within VST (32 bit Kontakt) - as a blank instrument it does, anyway. However, after this triumph it then won't load any runs, which is a bit of a flaw.

Any ideas, Hendrik?

EDIT - found another workround. It looks like the VST version won't open a multi created in standalone correctly. But it will if created and saved within the VST. So this is very good news - just create a Kontakt instance with runbuilder from within your VST, then in future open that, and not the instrument itself. Odd, but it seems to work!

EDIT 2 - [several days later] - hmm, don't think this is reliable. See post further below.


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Dec 6, 2010)

Hey Guys,

we´ve uploaded OSR now to a new server-system, which is much faster.
If someone has an old download-link and problems with the download-rate or something else, please send me an e-mail with your order-number and you´ll get access to the much faster server-system.

Please use our support-mail: support at orchestraltools.com

Thank you very much...

Hendrik


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 9, 2010)

Urgh, I spoke too soon. I've just loaded a totally blank project from my template, tried to load my Kontakt multi with RunsBuilder, and it both failed to load an articulations, then crashed the PC (the nasty sort of crash that needs mains to be pulled out of the wall to restart).

So sadly I'm reverting to loading the instrument fresh each time, which is a 5 minute process on my custom single mic patch, and I'd advise anyone else following this thread to not try the Kontakt multi trick yet.

Hendrik, sorry to ask again but any progress on sorting out these load issues? I appreciate it's early days for the product of course, but always good to hear that there is some progress on the horizon. My specs: Q66600, XP 32 bit, Sonar 8.5.3, Kontakt 4.1.3 vst. Cheers.


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Dec 9, 2010)

We are working in this issue an we have the first results.
Now we are testing a solution for that - when this was successfull I can give you more news here...

Can you write me a short mail to support at orchestraltools.com?

All the best,

Hendrik


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 9, 2010)

Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Thu Dec 09 said:


> We are working in this issue an we have the first results.
> Now we are testing a solution for that - when this was successfull I can give you more news here...
> 
> Can you write me a short mail to support at orchestraltools.com?
> ...



Great news, thanks Hendrik and will do!


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 9, 2010)

Just tried OSR in 4.2 beta. Load times are still the same, but the Kontakt Multi workaround seems to be working properly now - normal functionality and no crashes on an initial cold start.


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