# My Chief Gripe with LASS....



## stevenson-again (Jan 27, 2010)

argghh sorry wrong link. updated and working now...


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## OB.one (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: My Cheif Gripe with LASS....*

Bonsoir Steevenson,

Very peacefull track, well written, i enjoyed listening to it.

It's interresting to notice how LASS and the real solo violin blen perfectly together.

Once again LASS sounds really "live" in itself and makes this kind of blend much easier.

Best Regards from Paris.

Olivier


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## Rob (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: My Cheif Gripe with LASS....*

lovely composition, Stevenson, Lass sounds perfect...


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## _taylor (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: My Cheif Gripe with LASS....*

Nice writing!

LASS does sound awesome.


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## gsilbers (Jan 27, 2010)

what reverb u use for LASS?


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## germancomponist (Jan 27, 2010)

Fine!

Well composed and well sounding, Stevenson!

One suggestion: I would play the piano 12 notes(one octave) higher from 2.02 on..., but as always, thats only me.


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## stevenson-again (Jan 27, 2010)

cheers guys - i'll take all suggestions on board with this. it could probably do with another pass before putting to bed forever. i am thinking actually that it is rhythmically a little too loose throughout and i could look at why that is - probably latency with the stuff coming in from plogue (LASS and ivory) against the harp and the violin.

i am weaning myself off my old analogue desk and this was my first go at using a virtual desk to cover old songs with that setup. so i am using the fabrik R reverb in internal mode on the konnekt 48 interface and i am mixing down in the TC near software. i really like the fabrik R reverb - very detailed and rich sounding, but i doubt i have mastered it yet.


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## synthetic (Jan 27, 2010)

Wow. 

LASS sounds great but the live violin really elevates it. Nice composition and arrangement.


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## Jack Weaver (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: My Cheif Gripe with LASS....*

Yeah, Fabrik R! Mostly unknown and greatly under-appreciated. Bastard son of VSS4.

.


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## Toxeen (Jan 27, 2010)

That was a real pleasure to listen to. Cool blend with the violin. All in all, very emotional. Well done, Stevenson!


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## Nino Rajacic (Jan 27, 2010)

Beautiful piece Stevenson and really good production! 

Library sounds much warmer than source samples. Have you used some additional EQ-ing on LASS separately or it's just that nice Fabrik R adding to the overall warmth?


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## nikolas (Jan 27, 2010)

Apart from the beautiful writting and composing (and the reverb sounds fabulous), I find that the solo violin is rather weak in terms of 'realism' (or whatever you're after).

I find that the piano is at the right register and sound very nice... A nice addition to the rest of the piece.

And LASS sounds as ever more beautiful!


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 28, 2010)

nikolas @ Thu Jan 28 said:


> Apart from the beautiful writting and composing (and the reverb sounds fabulous), I find that the solo violin is rather weak in terms of 'realism' (or whatever you're after).
> 
> I find that the piano is at the right register and sound very nice... A nice addition to the rest of the piece.
> 
> And LASS sounds as ever more beautiful!



Nik, the violin is real  In fact this kind of reminds me a bit of Serenity.


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## stevenson-again (Jan 28, 2010)

i agree with nick though, for some reason the violin solo has come through a little underpowered in this mix. it also felt a bit dry in places listening with fresh ears. also i need to work out why the external stuff is quite as rhythmically as loose as it is - i know there is some license but it could be better. it's interesting, it's all step timed in, so all perfectly quantised - probably my midi delay settings have been lost on the upgrade to 9.1 and SL. also i could just be a touch kinder with the eq on LASS, squeeze out that last drop of yummy. 

the point of posting though: by gee LASS really brought this cue alive. i can hear all the voices, the detail comes through and it is so much more expressive. i was just bowled over with this quick mix and had to share.

also, another experiment, i eq'd LASS in kontakt (in plogue) and also put a long dark ER convolution reverb on the output. i pulled down the hi mids and lifted the very top (slightly too much i think). i think this approach might work depending on the project. otherwise it is probably more sensible to do the eqing and ER reverb in logic so that it is recallable per song.

i have found the plug-in version of fabrik to be virtually unusable, but in this configuration i can see that getting my desk out of the chain is going to work.


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## OB.one (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: My Cheif Gripe with LASS....*

Bonjour stevenson,

Another question about LASS :

What ensembles have you used on this specific track ( among Ens A,B,C), did you add also the solo strings ensembles on top ? ...

It would be interesting to know.

Best Regards from Paris.

Olivier


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## ChrisAxia (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: My Cheif Gripe with LASS....*

Very nice writing and overall mix, and as some have already mentioned, it's funny how the one real instrument doesn't 'sit' in the mix quite right. I'm guessing the recording is probably to blame and maybe the room sound might be difficult or even impossible to eliminate. I think you'll just have to re-record the violin Mr Stevenson!

~C


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## OB.one (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: My Cheif Gripe with LASS....*

... or see as an experience how it would sound using Lass Solo Violin instead ... :wink:


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## JohnG (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: My Cheif Gripe with LASS....*

Man, you can really write. Excellent


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## DeOlivier (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: My Cheif Gripe with LASS....*

I can only agree - this is one of the best cues I've heard on this forum so far: simply beautiful! And I love the reverb and overall mix - everyrthing sounds tasteful and... expensive!  BTW, which harp did you use here?


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## nikolas (Jan 28, 2010)

Oh boy do I feel dumb! Didn't read the OP so there... I found that the sustained notes of the solo violin were too 'steady' and 'predictable'.

My amazing fault! Yikes!


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: My Cheif Gripe with LASS....*

I believe I listened to the original link which now I'm realizing was the wrong link. Otherwise I would of commented earlier. Anyway, terrific music here! Enjoyed it from beginning to end, great sound contrasts, and love those timbres, all done in good taste.
Bravo!


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## fido94 (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: My Cheif Gripe with LASS....*

great work. one of the best LASS demos yet.

Maybe if you replace the real solo violin with LASS, it can be nominated to be posted on the LASS website.


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 28, 2010)

Awesome. Awesome, awesome, awesome.

Awesome.

Would you mind posting the original for the ultimate "look what LASS can do" comparison?!


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## Rob Elliott (Jan 29, 2010)

Brilliant. Patient musicality abounds (composition / arranging). This is where LASS really shines. I would really be interested also in knowing which divisi sections you used. I have found that the 'B' sections have this 'character' (mixed with the FC's) but be interested in knowing how you blended it.


Of course the solo violin pushes if over the top in a pychoacoustic way (amazing how one live track makes an already wonderful mock-up even better.)

Cool Hillary Hahn / JNH vibe going here.


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## stevenson-again (Jan 29, 2010)

ok well i have updated the cue - same link as before. a little more love over the eq and tidied up the 'looseness' somewhat but not completely - it has quite a natural feel i think to let the ensemble do their thing. i warmed the live fiddle a bit and gave it a little more reverb so hopefully it will sit a bit better in the mix. thanks for the tip nikolas.

interesting experiment summing on a virtual desk...next experiment is to play around with the divisi sections in LASS but maybe not for this piece.

i'm posting the link to the original mix which was made with symphobia and my old miroslav library. i can't listen to it any more - i knew then that i needed a proper band to pull it off and/or a smaller more intimate sound for greater clarity of line. these are just the LASS full patches (except for violin 2 which is the back desk 4 fiddles).

also it has to be noted it is not the worlds best violin performance - a great player not having their best day.

http://idisk.mac.com/rohan.stevenson/Public/webdemos/WritingtheLetter.mp3 (Writing the Letter)

http://idisk.mac.com/rohan.stevenson/Public/webdemos/WritingtheLetterOriginal.mp3 (Writing the Letter Original Version)

thanks for the interest guys!


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 29, 2010)

That's an absolutely fascinating A/B comparison. What a fantastic advert for LASS! Interesting they are primarily full patches too... the majority of this, then, could be performed on LASS lite.

Obviously the mix all round is better in the new, but it's staggering how seamless the real violin is with the rest of the strings with LASS. And not that I'm any great judge, but don't do the real violin playing down too much - sounds pretty decent enough to me for an off-day!

Just a wonderful piece - you're right to be proud of this one.


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## stevenson-again (Jan 29, 2010)

hi noiseboy - thanks very much. actually i am pretty pleased with the whole of the score for the entire series, but perhaps this episode in particular had the most potential not fully realized because i didn't really have the tools. it is for this kind of score that i would reach for LASS over HS, and what interested me so much in LASS in the first place. and yes - pretty much just LASS lite.

btw the "original version" is the original version with symphobia and miroslav. much fuller - but less clear and it especially suffers in the big emotional swell. there is a couple of cues from various things i want to revisit and give the LASS treatment now i have a little down time.


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## Arturas (Jan 29, 2010)

Very original theme! Keep that working - you're writing good music o-[][]-o


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## stevenson-again (Feb 1, 2010)

http://idisk.mac.com/rohan.stevenson/Public/webdemos/WritingtheLetterPart2.mp3 (Writing the Letter Part2)

second part of the cue (it used to be continuous) with the LASS treatment.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Feb 1, 2010)

Absolutely gorgeous music! Thanks so much!
In the first part I would have EQed some mids out from the piano, but that's just a very unimportant comment.


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## stevenson-again (Feb 1, 2010)

hey thanks SvK - i am a great admirer of yours as well. i have been listening to 'the city' mock-ups recently, and i plan to get to grips with your reverb tutorial. that is an area that you seem to have taken to a whole new level. i would love to get that level of perspective into my own mixes.


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## noiseboyuk (Feb 1, 2010)

That felt like a little Thomas Newman nod at the start of part 2, which is no bad thing. But it evolved beautifully into its own style. It could be my imagination, but the first few violin notes (starting at 25s) didn't sound quite as real as everything else to me. But (borrowing Emanuel's words) its a very unimportant comment in context - this is wonderful music.

EDIT - I typed this 4 hours ago and didn't press send! FWIW I liked the piano EQ, yes very Newman.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Feb 1, 2010)

The piano isn't Thomas Newman in terms of sound, which is fine. I'm sure he didn't want it exact. I like the sound stevenson has.

The Thomas Newman sound is a result of extremely low velocities being played on the piano with a high degree of gain and some compression with a lot less reverb than you might think.

I've only came close to this sound with PMI's Old Lady.


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## SvK (Feb 2, 2010)

maybe this morning I have wool in my ears......but the difference between the string tones in new and orig are not that big to me.....

That being said, as Rohan pointed, he is using the full-mix patches from LASS. Rohan are you using Legato patches? For all the separate lines?

SvK


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## stevenson-again (Feb 2, 2010)

the 2 versions:

Updated LASS version: Full Mix Medium LPG - 2nd fiddles are the C section. 

Original version: Symphobia strings with miroslav lib to help with definition. (mixed on old desk with lex reverb)

Symphobia is great but it is far too thick and heavy. Compare the 2 again and you will notice especially around the big emotional swell how much clearer everything is in the LASS version. The main problem with the whole score for this show was that it was just too big - i wanted lush but intimate - even the full mix patches in LASS are still a touch 'big' for my taste for this show. The symphobia mix is just a big wash. The LASS version and you could transcribe my voicings...


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## SvK (Feb 3, 2010)

Rohan, 

to be clear i think BOTH versions sound excellent, and do what they are meant to do very effectively.....They tug at your heart....BRAVO!!

ps: we get so carried away with sample libraries, that it takes cues like this to remind us, that a well written cue with ANY decent libraries will do what it needs to do just fine...

SvK


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Feb 3, 2010)

The older version is a bit fuller in the lower register (which Symphobia is known for) but LASS kills Symphobia or Miroslav when going in the upper register.


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## shin (Feb 7, 2010)

Nice piece!


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## Dan Mott (Feb 14, 2010)

This piece is sooooo great, i loved it!!

I thought the mix was nicely done, it served it's purpose for what you wanted, i personally would of done different, but that doesn't matter at all because everyone has their own preferences when it comes to mixing.

Great piece once again, perfect pleasing sound to my ears.


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## stevenson-again (Feb 16, 2010)

thanks for all the comments guys. it's really appreciated and very encouraging. nathan and SvK, the older version worked to picture but not as well as it could have done and that's because the sound was too heavy and 'epic'. even now with LASS it certainly sounds less of a wall of sound, but had the production allowed for a live record i could have achieved the right scale, or if i had LASS i would have made a muò”Y   Å,”Y   Å,”Y   Å,”Y   Å,”Y   Å,”Y   Å,”Y   Å,”Y   Å,”Y   Å,”Y   Å,”Y   Å,”Y   Å,”Y   Å, ”Y   Å,!”Y   Å,"”Y   Å,#”Y   Å,$”Y   Å,%”Y   Å,&”Y   Å,'”Y   Å,(”Y   Å,)”Y   Å,*”Y   Å,+”Y   Å,,”Y   Å,-”Y   Å,.”Y   Å,/”Y   Å,0”Y   Å,1”Y   Å,2”Y   Å,3”Y   Å,4”Y   Å,5”Y   Å,6”Y   Å,7”Y   Å,8”Y   Å,9”Y   Å,:”Y   Å,;”Y   Å,<”Y   Å,=”Y   Å,>”Y   Å,?”Y   Å,@”Y   Å,A”Y   Å,B”Y   Å,C”Y   Å,D”Y   Å,E”Y   Å,F”Y   Å,G”Y   Å,H”Y


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## EwigWanderer (Feb 16, 2010)

Very nice work...I really like this. I forgot my headache for a while..=) I'll listen this again tomorrow with my hifi-system to go more deeper to the soundfield.


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## Thonex (Feb 16, 2010)

Beautiful piece Stevenson!!! Simply beautiful!

You have a wonderful emotional arc going on throughout the piece and I thoroughly enjoyed it!!

You're very talented... and I love your compositional style ... great mockup too!!

Thanks for posting this... truly a beautiful piece.

Cheers,

Andrew K


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