# The Orchestra Complete 2 and TO - Horns Of Hell Released!



## Best Service Wolfgang (Aug 27, 2020)

*The next Giant Leap for Digital Orchestration and Cinematic Scoring!*





With "The Orchestra", "The Orchestra Complete" and "TO - Strings of Winter" a very simple approach to orchestral composition became reality. At last, it is possible to compose ensemble sketches with minimal effort in a playfully and simple way, as well as complex orchestral arrangements. This core features made our "The Orchestra" family one of the most popular the virtual instruments worldwide.

*Today we proudly present two new Best Service products from the "The Orchestra" series:

The Orchestra Complete 2 and TO - Horns Of Hell*






*https://youtu.be/bPeOzbVCaNU (New Features - New Instruments - New Presets - Watch Here!)*

"The Orchestra Complete 2" as the flagship of the "The Orchestra" product family combines the force of the original 80-piece orchestra with additional articulations and powerful features. It now includes not only "Strings Of Winter" but also brandnew "Horns Of Hell". On top you will get new features like additional presets and multi-instruments, a revised preset browser, MIDI export and more requested features

In this revolutionary all-in-one package the sound of a symphonic orchestra is at your fingertips. With the groundbreaking ensemble-engine we created a super easy way for you to convert your ideas into music.

*Immediately playable | Completely customizable | Surprisingly simple

The Orchestra Complete 2 is available now at € / $ 459*

*Upgrades available*: If you already own a member of the "The Orchestra" family you can upgrade to "The Orchestra Complete 2" at a very affordable price: Check your options here:

*Owners of: Strings Of Winter or Horns Of Hell € / $ 349
Owners of:The Orchestra Complete 1 € / $ 99
Owners of: The Orchestra € / $ 199*






*Horns Of Hell – The Gates Are Open!*

Master true brass power. Horns Of Hell covers everything from shining brilliance to the ultimate inferno – it’s all on your modwheel! Horns Of Hell is a massive brass, organ and percussion library, including a total of 67 varied articulations. It features absolutely unique and earth-shattering sections, like the mighty Tenor Horns or the profoundly diabolic Evil Brass.

*Horns of Hell Is Powered By:*

48 powerful brass patches from a huge 20 player brass ensemble with 28 articulations, plus all TO articulations, 5 FX and phrase patches.

15 different organ registrations, recorded from two different organs in the same church, quietand mellow to thunderous and majestic, as well as 3 playable Organ FX patches.

Various drums, deep hits, tubular bells and a timpani.

Naturally, it includes our highly valued MIDI-Export feature.

*Horns Of Hell | Made to be Felt

Horns Of Hell is available now for € / $ 149*

*Horns Of Hell is part of "The Orchestra Complete 2" *

Enjoy this new release!!
Wolfgang


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## RonV (Aug 27, 2020)

Hmm....Pipe organ looks interesting.


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## RonOrchComp (Aug 27, 2020)

Naked demos of just the horns please!


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## Simon Schrenk (Aug 27, 2020)

The Demos for Horns Of Hell can be found here:









TO - Horns of Hell | Best Service | bestservice.de


TO - Horns of Hell | Massive Brass, Orgel und Percussion Library | 48 kraftvolle Brass Patches | 15 Orgelregistrierungen | verschiedene Drums & Percussion | DE




www.bestservice.de





here:


or here:








HORNS OF HELL - percussion, organ & brass vst library - Sonuscore


HORNS OF HELL is our brand-new and massive percussion, organ and brass vst library, including a total of 67 varied articulations.




sonuscore.com


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## AndyP (Aug 27, 2020)

Hmmm, 99€. And that after the ** deal ... that sounds feasible.

Must watch walkthroughs.

Is there information about the number of layers and RRs?


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## ReelToLogic (Aug 27, 2020)

Dear @SONUSCORE, could you please consider creating an upgrade path for owners of The Orchestra that adds MIDI-out but not these other libraries, for those of us who just want to add MIDI-out?

At the very least, please bring back The Orchestra Complete 1, so we could add MIDI-out for $119 instead of the $199 required to upgrade to The Orchestra Complete 2. For those of us who just which to add MIDI-out capability (and don't need another string or brass library), $199 is a rather steep price to pay. I'm a big fan of Sonuscore and would greatly appreciate it if you would consider these two requests and respond in this forum. Thanks.


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## Ashermusic (Aug 27, 2020)

Still no English Horn? Maybe its just me but I need an English Horn more than Horns Of Hell.


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## Virtuoso (Aug 27, 2020)

Cool - it comes with Logic and Cubase Articulation/Expression Maps. More developers should do this!


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## Geomir (Aug 27, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Still no English Horn? Maybe its just me but I need an English Horn more than Horns Of Hell.


First expansion: "STRINGS of winter"
Second expansion: "HORNS of hell"

So the way I see it, you are getting your English Horn in the next expansion. What would that be? "WINDS of fury" maybe?


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## Drumdude2112 (Aug 27, 2020)

99 dolla upgrade for some evil horns and and a massive organ (which looks quite interesting) count me in 👍🏻 !


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## Ashermusic (Aug 27, 2020)

Geomir said:


> First expansion: "STRINGS of winter"
> Second expansion: "HORNS of hell"
> 
> So the way I see it, you are getting your English Horn in the next expansion. What would that be? "WINDS of fury" maybe?



LOL!


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## Drumdude2112 (Aug 27, 2020)

'Winds of Fury' , that should be their next installment and they need to hook you up for giving them the bad ass title lol .


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## doctoremmet (Aug 27, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Still no English Horn? Maybe its just me but I need an English Horn more than Horns Of Hell.


Horny as Hell for an English Horn!


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## Reid Rosefelt (Aug 27, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Still no English Horn? Maybe its just me but I need an English Horn more than Horns Of Hell.


I would also love a Fluffy English Horn, as they have my favorite solo woods. I know they would do a beautiful job. Maybe even a Piccolo?


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## EvgenyEmelyanov (Aug 27, 2020)

This.. is.. awesome, guys!


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## RonOrchComp (Aug 27, 2020)

Simon Schrenk said:


> The Demos for Horns Of Hell can be found here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks

Naked demos? Walkthough?

Are the horns recorded that far left? Because, that's_ really_ far.


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## Henning (Aug 27, 2020)

Here's the complete set of demos which also feature HoH but also TOC2:


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## Geomir (Aug 27, 2020)

@Best Service Wolfgang 

Congratulations for another amazing inspiring "thematic" orchestral library / tool!

I am so curious to learn more about the included pipe organ! Was it recorded in a church? Is it so huge that contains more than 5000 pipes? I understand it was recorded at "Saalkirche Ingelheim". Which means I don't understand!  

I googled it, I found some impressive photos of a beautiful organ inside a cozy church, but everything is in German, and the only German I know is that "Ich heisse Georg."

Is there any link in English about this magnificent instrument, the one that Mozart himself considered to be "The King of all instruments"?


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## Simon Schrenk (Aug 27, 2020)

RonOrchComp said:


> Thanks
> 
> Naked demos? Walkthough?
> 
> Are the horns recorded that far left? Because, that's_ really_ far.


Maybe you can explain, what you mean by naked demos? Everything in those Horns Of Hell demos is from the library itself.

Preset Walkthrough can be found here: https://www.bestservice.de/to_horns_of_hell.html
or here: 

TOC2 Playthrough:


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## shponglefan (Aug 27, 2020)

So they literally call it "Evil Brass" in the articulation list. Anyone know what actual instruments we're talking about here?


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## Simon Schrenk (Aug 27, 2020)

shponglefan said:


> So they literally call it "Evil Brass" in the articulation list. Anyone know what actual instruments we're talking about here?


The Evil Brass ensemble is a Cimbasso, a Bass Trombone, a Contrabass Trombone and a Contrabass Tuba!


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## Simon Schrenk (Aug 27, 2020)

Geomir said:


> @Best Service Wolfgang
> 
> Congratulations for another amazing inspiring "thematic" orchestral library / tool!
> 
> ...


The Organs (plural – HOH actually features samples recorded from two organs within the same church) were recorded at Saalkirche Ingelheim in Germany.
There are two organs in this historic church. The larger one was built in 1930 by famous American organ builder Ernest M. Skinner and moved to the church in Germany and refurbished in 2013. It’s a massive instruments with almost 4000 pipes, known for its warm “American Style” sound and dynamic range. The instrument is essentially the size of a small house, with multiple floors and rooms to walk through, if you want to see all the pipes, bells and whistles.
The second organ is a bit smaller and responsible for the more intimate and detailed registrations in Horns of Hell. It was built in 1853 by Bernhard Dreymann, representing the more direct and present German style of organ building.
We recorded both instruments with multiple selections of stops to capture the range and variety of these two instruments.


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## Best Service Wolfgang (Aug 27, 2020)

Simon Schrenk said:


> The Organs (plural – HOH actually features samples recorded from two organs within the same church) were recorded at Saalkirche Ingelheim in Germany.
> ...
> We recorded both instruments with multiple selections of stops to capture the range and variety of these two instruments.


Thank you Simon :-D


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## Geoff Grace (Aug 27, 2020)

It seems that braams have eclipsed Brahms these days. 

Best,

Geoff


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## RonOrchComp (Aug 27, 2020)

Simon Schrenk said:


> The Demos for Horns Of Hell can be found here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So, those are not naked horn demos. There are drums, strings, trumpets....


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## Henning (Aug 27, 2020)

Pure HoH demos:


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## Simon Schrenk (Aug 27, 2020)

RonOrchComp said:


> So, those are not naked horn demos. There are drums, strings, trumpets....


TO - Horns Of Hell expansion also includes the percussion, the organ as well as the Brass FX
If you only want the raw sound of the Brass. The preset walkthrough hopefully give you the impressions you need.


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## uditprakash (Aug 27, 2020)

Sounds CRAY


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## Rich4747 (Aug 27, 2020)

Congratulations to the team. Love the sound.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Aug 27, 2020)




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## BradHoyt (Aug 27, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Still no English Horn? Maybe its just me but I need an English Horn more than Horns Of Hell.


If they just did English Horns of Hell...


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## davidson (Aug 27, 2020)

@Best Service Wolfgang Is it possible to lock the current instruments when loading presets so just the engine arps and envs change?


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## Rich4747 (Aug 27, 2020)

have mercy this is fun to play! expressive, dynamic, musical. Its a good sign when you can noodle on one preset for 40 min and your expression peddle has smoke coming off it. I apologize to my neighbors its going to be a long night.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Aug 27, 2020)

Simon Schrenk said:


> The Evil Brass ensemble is a Cimbasso, a Bass Trombone, a Contrabass Trombone and a Contrabass Tuba!


There should be a Wicked Winds ensemble for call and response phrases


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## bill5 (Aug 27, 2020)

TigerTheFrog said:


> I would also love a Fluffy English Horn, as they have my favorite solo woods. I know they would do a beautiful job. Maybe even a Piccolo?


No piccolo either? Neither that or English Horn are exactly my top needs, but it does seem to me to be curious omissions.


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## TheSteven (Aug 27, 2020)

So.. would you consider *Orchestra Complete 2 *an addition/companion/suppliment to the original or a replacement?


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## bill5 (Aug 27, 2020)

"more than 200 single instrument patches." Foul temptress!


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## MillsMixx (Aug 27, 2020)

Owner of TOC1 here. If we upgrade later will the upgrade price still stay the same at 99.00 when we're ready?


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## rnb_2 (Aug 27, 2020)

TheSteven said:


> So.. would you consider *Orchestra Complete 2 *an addition/companion/suppliment to the original or a replacement?



Since TOC 1 is no longer listed on Sonuscore's site, I'd say it's a replacement.


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## SoNowWhat? (Aug 28, 2020)

MillsMixx said:


> Owner of TOC1 here. If we upgrade later will the upgrade price still stay the same at 99.00 when we're ready?


I’m not 100% sure but, generally with Best Service those upgrade prices are fixed and not discounted for release. I’ve not checked it myself yet but the $99 upgrade price seems good to me. I enjoy this VI very much.

Interested to hear if anyone else has encountered the same artefact that @ArtTurnerMusic reported.


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## SoNowWhat? (Aug 28, 2020)

TigerTheFrog said:


> I would also love a Fluffy English Horn, as they have my favorite solo woods. I know they would do a beautiful job. Maybe even a Piccolo?


I might have to ask you some questions about them. I’ve had my eye on the clarinet for ages.


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## ArtTurnerMusic (Aug 28, 2020)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Interested to hear if anyone else has encountered the same artefact that @ArtTurnerMusic reported.



Apparently that was a glitch that I can no longer reproduce. So no worries on that front.


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## Jack Weaver (Aug 28, 2020)

How does it work when you're upgrading from TOC1/Winter Strings and want to get all the new upgrades? Do you update your current install or do you get a whole new file?

Thanks

.


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## JonSolo (Aug 28, 2020)

Jack Weaver said:


> How does it work when you're upgrading from TOC1/Winter Strings and want to get all the new upgrades? Do you update your current install or do you get a whole new file?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> .


Whole new file. Redirect Kontakt to the new location. It is an all inclusive download.


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## RonV (Aug 28, 2020)

Jack Weaver said:


> How does it work when you're upgrading from TOC1/Winter Strings and want to get all the new upgrades? Do you update your current install or do you get a whole new file?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> .


It's a complete new download (about 13 GB?). You rename the original TOC folder and relocate the new library folder in Native Access. There's no new Native Access key. Interestingly, TOC 2 contains the main nki for TOC 1 and TOC 2 in addition to the individual instruments.


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## SoNowWhat? (Aug 28, 2020)

ArtTurnerMusic said:


> Apparently that was a glitch that I can no longer reproduce. So no worries on that front.


Excellent. Thank you.


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## ArthurNeeman (Aug 29, 2020)

Is sampling done again? I just want to know if I upgrade to current version will I have normal sampled Bass without a noise we have in 1st version of The Orchestra?


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## Technostica (Aug 29, 2020)

Was going to buy version 1 on offer and upgrade to Complete to get the MIDI export but decided it was too expensive. 
Then I noticed that the Strings and Brass Expansions come with MIDI export anyway so that's a much cheaper way to get that feature. Especially as I have £50 worth of points from a reseller. 
Brass gets the new interface so I wonder if they will update Strings to that as they have been updating these? 
The question then is will I find only having one of them gives too limited a palette! 
If so I can always upgrade.


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## zimm83 (Aug 29, 2020)

This product is becoming better and better. Sounds AWESOME.


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## ArthurNeeman (Aug 30, 2020)

@MillsMixx, imagine two magic words that end every plugin buyer's year - Black Friday


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## tmpc (Sep 1, 2020)

The Sonuscore email announcement I received concerning The Orchestra Complete 2 stated "You already own a part of our THE ORCHESTRA family? Upgrade at a reduced price!" Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks to me like there is no price reduction at all.

I paid $239.40 for The Orchestra in 2018. I then upgraded to the Orchestra Complete v1 (which included Strings of Winter) in 2019 for an additional $119.00; a total of $358.40. So, I now see that my upgrade to Complete 2 will cost me $99.00; a total of $457.40. This is $1.60 less than just buying Complete 2. Also, the $99.00 TOC1 upgrade contains both Strings of Winter and Horns of Hell, but the upgrade from The Orchestra to Complete 1 included Strings of Winter. So I'm really just getting Horns of Hell for $99.00.

With most companies I've dealt with, early adopters are usually rewarded, but apparently not with Sonuscore. I'm not sure what I'm going to do.


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## rnb_2 (Sep 1, 2020)

I think any developer would say that you've had the benefit of owning the library, in various forms, for quite a while, and had the opportunity to derive value from that. Yes, many developers will offer deals on new releases for existing customers (ie, Damage 2 is cheaper if you own Damage 1), but that's a slightly different situation than TOC, which is a base package that has been expanded twice, with a price bump each time, but always including everything from earlier releases.

Requiring that all upgrade paths end up significantly less expensive than the current release would require them to make the "Complete" package significantly more expensive with every release in order for the upgrades to be less expensive for every scenario. For example, anybody who bought TOC1 at full price ($399) would only come out ahead if TOC2 was at least $499. You got TOC for less than full price (introductory sale?), so anybody who bought at full price before TOC1 came out would be in an even worse position on price (total of $517 for TOC + TOC1 upgrade + TOC2 upgrade), so that would raise the minimum full price for TOC2 for new users to $520, so probably $549 if they wanted to all upgraders to feel like they got a better deal.

I can understand the developers not wanting to get their price out of line for the market (TOC2 is already not inexpensive). So, when dealing with a library that is growing over time (rather than being replaced by a new version that doesn't include everything from earlier releases), if you want to be sure that your total price with upgrades is less than the current full price, you have to either make your original purchase at significantly below full price, or figure in the value of owning the library to your calculations.


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## tmpc (Sep 2, 2020)

Yes, I had the benefit of using the product, but they had the benefit of being paid for it. Neither party did the other a favor.

I'm not saying that Sonuscore should cut previous owners a break, they can price upgrades any way they want to, but saying that you can "Upgrade at a reduced price" is simply not true. You're paying the same price as you would buying Complete 2 for the first time. It's the same price.

Referring to the Complete 1 upgrade to Complete 2 as also containing Strings of Winter means nothing to someone buying the upgrade as they already have it.

The first point is dishonest and the second is confusing.


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## Technostica (Sep 2, 2020)

@*tmpc*
Upgrade at a reduced price can mean you don't have to pay full price not that you pay less overall.
You would have gone through 2 Upgrades to get to Complete 2 and with no penalty.
With many developers if you take that route you usually end up paying more.
Your glass seems half empty. :(


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## Geomir (Sep 2, 2020)

I am 100% satisfied with Sonuscore. Excellent company with excellent support. I got TO with $199 and then TOC2 with another $199. Reduce the overall price by $20 thanks to Deluxe Bucks.

I paid the first $199 with my "previous monthly salary" and the second $179 with the "next monthly salary". Comparing these 2 different payments vs $459 in one big payment, it is obvious that I saved a lot of money and made my life much easier.

Sometimes timing is important, and a good amount of luck is required. I don't think Sonuscore is dishonest, confusing or anything close to that.

Also $99 (again this price is usually reduced for many people thanks to Deluxe Bucks or Best Service Coins) for TOC2 / Horns of Hell is an excellent price! I mean, it is a big stand alone expansion offering lots of new content (which is not easy to find in other orchestral libraries)! I would dare to say that only the pipe organ(s) alone would be enough to justify the price.


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## tmpc (Sep 2, 2020)

In my experience sound libraries get cheaper over time. And for the third time, I am not saying that I should pay less for Complete 2 than someone buying it today. What I am saying is that is that presenting this as a "reduced price" and "including" a part of the library you already have, is deceptive.

Oh, and let's leave my glass out of it.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Sep 2, 2020)

Okay. You know that everything gets discounted some day. Aside from Valhalla and Indiginus, pretty much everything in the industry gets discounted eventually. Glad we agree on that.

The first major expansion to The Orchestra, 1.1, which brought many new features and some new instruments--was free.

Each of Sonuscore's Origins libraries originally sold for $79 a pop. I bought all of them and one more, albeit many were on intro price or on sale. Sonuscore recently sold the first five for $10 in order to do something to help musicians during Covid. I was not upset at all that they did this. I thought it was admirable, and speaks to who they are.

I think they are one of the very best developers in the business in the way they treat their customers. They stick with their instruments, fix bugs, listen to their customers, giving them the features they ask for. This costs them real money, and many other developers put stuff on the market and move on.

I am sorry if you see them as deceptive, but I hope you can see that you are in the minority on thinking that. Ultimately it is on you to decide whether their stuff is worth it. I imagine that by the time I buy the next expansion so The Orchestra, new people will be able to buy it for less. But I will have had years playing it by then.


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## Geomir (Sep 2, 2020)

@tmpc
Of course they get cheaper! Think of all these people that paid the full $399 for TO when it was released. Now you can get the complete bundle for just extra $60, which is like buying Strings of Winter and Horns of Hell for $30 each!


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## Reid Rosefelt (Sep 2, 2020)

Geomir said:


> +1


I've already edited this! I'm a professional writer and can never stop editing.


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## tmpc (Sep 2, 2020)

I'm neither up or down on Sonuscore, or any company. I also think that they have the right to charge whatever they want to for a product. For example, 8dio is having a huge sale right now selling libraries for less than half what I paid for them. Am I upset about this? No. I know how the world works. But, saying this upgrade is at a reduced price just isn't true. It's the same price.


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## zimm83 (Sep 2, 2020)

Too much discussions......This product is excellent. Buy it or Not but stop complaining....


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## Geomir (Sep 2, 2020)

TigerTheFrog said:


> I've already edited this! I'm a professional writer and can never stop editing.


It happens to me all the time! I deleted my post just in case you wanted me to!


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## tmpc (Sep 2, 2020)

I'm not complaining. Simply pointing something out. My replies have dealt with folks misrepresenting what I said . . . like you.


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## rnb_2 (Sep 2, 2020)

tmpc said:


> I'm neither up or down on Sonuscore, or any company. I also think that they have the right to charge whatever they want to for a product. For example, 8dio is having a huge sale right now selling libraries for less than half what I paid for them. Am I upset about this? No. I know how the world works. But, saying this upgrade is at a reduced price just isn't true. It's the same price.



As @Technostica pointed out, the simplest interpretation of "upgrade at a reduced price" is "you don't have to pay full price for TOC2", and that's not misleading, no matter how much you've paid up until this point. Even if you only own Strings of Winter, you'll get a discounted crossgrade.

As for TOC2 coming with both Strings of Winter and Horns of Hell, I can't find any reference to that in the emails I received from Sonuscore, so I'm assuming you're going from the product page on Sonuscore's site? If that's the case, I think they're clarifying that TOC2 includes both because TOC1 is no longer for sale. If someone doesn't realize that each version of TO/TOC comes with everything before it, they could see that Horns of Hell is the signature addition to TOC2 and think that they have to buy Strings of Winter separately to get it, since TOC1 is no longer offered. Particularly for people who just have TO (which was just on sale), you wouldn't want them to buy both the TOC2 upgrade and Strings of Winter.

I don't think anybody is trying to misrepresent what you said - we just don't understand why you seem disappointed with your options.


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## tmpc (Sep 2, 2020)

rnb_2 said:


> As @Technostica pointed out, the simplest interpretation of "upgrade at a reduced price" is "you don't have to pay full price for TOC2"


But you ARE paying full price. If you pay $300 for something and then buy an add-on for it for $200, you shouldn't be grinning ear to ear because you look at it as only paying $200 for the $500 thing. You paid the full $500!!!



rnb_2 said:


> As for TOC2 coming with both Strings of Winter and Horns of Hell, I can't find any reference to that in the emails I received from Sonuscore


That's on the Best Service site.



rnb_2 said:


> I don't think anybody is trying to misrepresent what you said - we just don't understand why you seem disappointed with your options.


The $99 upgrade option is what it is. I just don't think the way the pricing is presented is honest, that's all.

I have to stop writing now or zimm83 will scold me again, and I certainly wouldn't want to bother HIM.


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## Technostica (Sep 2, 2020)

rnb_2 said:


> As @Technostica pointed out, the simplest interpretation of "upgrade at a reduced price" is "you don't have to pay full price for TOC2", and that's not misleading, no matter how much you've paid up until this point. Even if you only own Strings of Winter, you'll get a discounted crossgrade.


*tmpc *seemingly doesn't want a second opinion that contradicts their narrative.
The irony is that they actually admitted that they would still make a small saving, which is still a reduced price.  
I don't think that it is typical to pay less than the current price when you have gone through 2 upgrades to get there.


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## tmpc (Sep 2, 2020)

The inmates are running the asylum. Bye.


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## zimm83 (Sep 5, 2020)

Man this thing is insane. And the multis...and the arps...and with the enveloppe drawing you can make tempo synced crescendos, decrescendos, sfz, etc....
So good. 
And with one interface you have access to all the libraries.
Hoping they will continue creating lib expansions. Would like to see Choirs expansion, and percs, and solo instruments !!!

I would like to have a velocity range per instruments...would be cool to be able to make ostinatos come and go with velocity...and not only mod wheel.

And for the arps, would be cool to be able to make arps with key number, like spitfire 's ostinato... 1 4 2 2 1 4 etc.... so we could make melodies with one finger and transpose....
Thanks again Sonuscore for this amazing product !


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## PeterN (Sep 11, 2020)

The timing for the Horns of Hell was right, but the library should have included an Erhu and a Guzheng. 

To make it the best selling war library, looking in the future.


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## rnb_2 (Sep 11, 2020)

Found a Youtube channel yesterday that is exploring TOC2 combined with Scaler and other tools - some very interesting things are possible, particularly with the new additions to Scaler 2.1:


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## mopsiflopsi (Feb 11, 2021)

I've been feeling the itch to get TOC2. Does anyone know if there are any sales/deals on it anywhere? Also I can't seem to figure out how to change the store currency on Sonuscore website. 459 in Euros is a lot! 
Edit: I know Best Service has the same price but in USD, which helps, but would still prefer additional discount if one exists.


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## AudioLoco (Feb 11, 2021)

Is Horns of Hell a standalone product or do I need the orchestra complete?


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## Technostica (Feb 11, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> Is Horns of Hell a standalone product or do I need the orchestra complete?


It is both standalone and included in Complete 2.


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## Technostica (Feb 11, 2021)

mopsiflopsi said:


> I've been feeling the itch to get TOC2. Does anyone know if there are any sales/deals on it anywhere? Also I can't seem to figure out how to change the store currency on Sonuscore website. 459 in Euros is a lot!
> Edit: I know Best Service has the same price but in USD, which helps, but would still prefer additional discount if one exists.


Probably not right now but it is on sale a number of times per year. 
Not sure if version 2 has been on sale, but you can buy version 1 on sale and get the upgrade. 
AudioDeluxe might have extra discounts too when it's on sale.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Feb 11, 2021)

mopsiflopsi said:


> I've been feeling the itch to get TOC2. Does anyone know if there are any sales/deals on it anywhere? Also I can't seem to figure out how to change the store currency on Sonuscore website. 459 in Euros is a lot!
> Edit: I know Best Service has the same price but in USD, which helps, but would still prefer additional discount if one exists.


TOC2 definitely goes on sale on Black Friday. I would expect 40% off.

One thing to think about is that it's more than likely that TOC2 will follow Strings of Winter and Horns of Hell with some kind of Woodwinds library this year. I have no idea if you'd save money by waiting for that.


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## Technostica (Feb 11, 2021)

TigerTheFrog said:


> TOC2 definitely goes on sale on Black Friday. I would expect 40% off.
> 
> One thing to think about is that it's more than likely that TOC2 will follow Strings of Winter and Horns of Hell with some kind of Woodwinds library this year. I have no idea if you'd save money by waiting for that.


It wasn't on sale during their late December sale but there was a €20 coupon plus a Freebie of choice. Other versions were definitely on sale but I'm not sure that TOC2 was even for BF!
Happy to defer to your archive info though.


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## rnb_2 (Feb 11, 2021)

Technostica said:


> It wasn't on sale during their late December sale but there was a €20 coupon plus a Freebie of choice. Other versions were definitely on sale but I'm not sure that TOC2 was even for BF!
> Happy to defer to your archive info though.


This is correct (as far as I can remember), but I think @TigerTheFrog is anticipating a sale for BF 2021.

However, if they do what they did last year and release a new expansion (like the possible woodwinds @TigerTheFrog mentioned), they will likely discontinue TOC2 at the release of TOC3 (like they did with TOC when TOC2 was released), and there won't be a BF discount on that, though they may discount The Orchestra and go for upgrades again.

If they don't do a new expansion this year, though, I would expect TOC2 to be on sale for BF.


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## mopsiflopsi (Feb 11, 2021)

BF is a long way away. Good Friday sales should be a thing! 

On a side note, I tried Best Service's cloud streamed preview for TOC2 earlier and I think it's a great idea in general for trying out plugins before investing hundreds of bucks in them. The latency was a bit too much to have a good idea musically, but it helped with exploring the UI and seeing what's where.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Feb 11, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> This is correct (as far as I can remember), but I think @TigerTheFrog is anticipating a sale for BF 2021.
> 
> However, if they do what they did last year and release a new expansion (like the possible woodwinds @TigerTheFrog mentioned), they will likely discontinue TOC2 at the release of TOC3 (like they did with TOC when TOC2 was released), and there won't be a BF discount on that, though they may discount The Orchestra and go for upgrades again.
> 
> If they don't do a new expansion this year, though, I would expect TOC2 to be on sale for BF.


You're right. I didn't think it through. If there is a TOC3 this year, then it's unlikely it will be on sale during this BF. It took a few years for the original The Orchestra to go on sale.


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## mopsiflopsi (Feb 11, 2021)

In case anyone's interested in buying this now instead of waiting for the BF, there is a sale going on at Bigfish Audio where you can get up to 30% off on select items. TOC2 is not eligible, but TOC1 is, and buying the first one and upgrading from that can save you $50.


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## Voider (May 14, 2021)

I've got two questions about Horns of hell (the standalone version):

Do they have different mic positions, and are they panned hard left by default or is that just for the demos? Because it seems it's just some mixed mic sound in a big hall + hard panned, which could really make it difficult to incorporate this in projects with other libraries.


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## RonV (May 14, 2021)

The individual patches in TOC2 only have a single mic mix and no panning controls. (You would have to do that in your DAW.) Each patch does have basic high/low EQ and a small choice of reverbs. The main TOC2 Complete engine patch also has only a single mic mix, but can load up to 5 instruments. Each of those has a mix balance and pan control. It's a sketch library much like BO Inspire.


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## Voider (May 15, 2021)

RonV said:


> The individual patches in TOC2 only have a single mic mix and no panning controls. (You would have to do that in your DAW.) Each patch does have basic high/low EQ and a small choice of reverbs. The main TOC2 Complete engine patch also has only a single mic mix, but can load up to 5 instruments. Each of those has a mix balance and pan control. It's a sketch library much like BO Inspire.


What a pity!
Thanks for letting me know


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## Best Service Tomasz (May 17, 2021)

Voider said:


> I've got two questions about Horns of hell (the standalone version):
> 
> Do they have different mic positions, and are they panned hard left by default or is that just for the demos? Because it seems it's just some mixed mic sound in a big hall + hard panned, which could really make it difficult to incorporate this in projects with other libraries.


Hi! The Orchestra Complete 2 features only one neutral mic position. Both the reverb and the pan can be adjusted individually in the GUI's mixer, which means you can incorporate TOC in oher projects or use use it as sketching tool


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## Voider (May 17, 2021)

Best Service Tomasz said:


> Both the reverb and the pan can be adjusted individually in the GUI's mixer, which means you can incorporate TOC in oher projects or use use it as sketching tool


Is this true for Horns of Hell standalone as well?
And how hard is it to get them centered when they've been recorded already panned to the left?


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## rnb_2 (May 17, 2021)

Voider said:


> Is this true for Horns of Hell standalone as well?
> And how hard is it to get them centered when they've been recorded already panned to the left?



EDIT to remove incorrect information. The Orchestra is recorded panned to traditional positions.


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## Voider (May 17, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> The mic position is neutral - the instruments are not recorded panned. Each individual section is centered when played by itself, with panning done within the presets containing up to five sections.


Ah okay, because of the HOH website it states:

"_All sections were recorded in their traditional seating positions_", this is why I've assumed that means the panning is already baked into the records.

What is meant by that then?


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## rnb_2 (May 17, 2021)

Voider said:


> Ah okay, because of the HOH website it states:
> 
> "_All sections were recorded in their traditional seating positions_", this is why I've assumed that means the panning is already baked into the records.
> 
> What is meant by that then?


Hmmm, I seem to have confused myself. Based on @Best Service Tomasz's reply, I tested the Evil Brass and didn't notice it being panned (might just be my ears), but testing on other sections makes it obvious that they are panned to their "traditional" positions. Sorry about that.

That said, it appears that you can create a single-section preset and use the panning controls there to move a section to the center fairly easily.


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## Voider (May 17, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> That said, it appears that you can create a single-section preset and use the panning controls there to move a section to the center fairly easily.


Yeah I know that this is possible, but - having never done this by myself as I don't own pre-panned libraries - I remember that I've read on VI-control that simply centering pre-panned recordings isn't the same as centered recordings.

Maybe someone who've got more experience on this can enlighten us. Hopefully I remember that wrong


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## rnb_2 (May 17, 2021)

Voider said:


> Yeah I know that this is possible, but - having never done this by myself as I don't own pre-panned libraries - I remember that I've read on VI-control that simply centering pre-panned recordings isn't the same as centered recordings.
> 
> Maybe someone who've got more experience on this can enlighten us. Hopefully I remember that wrong


Finding someone with more experience in this area than me would be good, as we've already seen


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## Voider (May 18, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> Finding someone with more experience in this area than me would be good, as we've already seen


Quoting you in case you're interested,
did a bit research and it seems to be because of the reverb, which makes totally sense.

If pre-panned instruments have reverb (_and they have because close mics would be centered, at least in the original record_) that reverb behaves like something that was closer to a wall. An ensemble in the middle of a hall will have a different reverb than an ensemble at the side closer to a wall, because early reflections, the way the late reflections will be modulated by the shape of the room etc. will be different. And since we as human beings perceive this sound and our brain does encode the information to determine _how_ we perceive it, it will most likely sound off or weird if it's all centered with a reverb that we usually never hear from a centered position.

I guess in a very busy huge mix with just one or two pre-panned instruments that aren't in the spotlight or some anyway not very realistic setup it won't be very noticeable, but I believe these could be serious shortcomings when trying to blend this with other more flexible libraries.

But take it all with a grain of salt since I didn't do any A/B comparison by myself.


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## rnb_2 (May 18, 2021)

M


Voider said:


> Quoting you in case you're interested,
> did a bit research and it seems to be because of the reverb, which makes totally sense.



That makes complete sense. I misinterpreted Tomasz's "neutral mic" statement and got just enough information from a quick test to "confirm" my incorrect interpretation, but that's my lack of experience showing. Thanks for taking the time to explain it in detail.


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## Best Service Tomasz (May 20, 2021)

Voider said:


> Is this true for Horns of Hell standalone as well?
> And how hard is it to get them centered when they've been recorded already panned to the left?


The libraries of The Orchestra Complete Family (including Horns of Hell) are based on a concept which does not require any panning in order to achieve a traditional seating arrangement. This also means that it is not possible to center sections or instrumetns that are panned to the left.


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