# Mic for acoustic guitar recording



## Smikes77 (Mar 8, 2017)

what would you guys recommend?

I already have an SE Gemini, and an audiotechnica. 

The Gemini is waaaay too sensitive, but I've been looking at the rode nt4. 

Budget around £400. 

What do you reckon?


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## synthpunk (Mar 8, 2017)

AT4050
OCTAVA MK-012 (might be able to get a matched pair)
Shure SM-81
Used C414

Preamp is also an important part of the equation.


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## trumpoz (Mar 8, 2017)

Im a big fan of AKG C414 - it can be used suitably on a lot of things. Its got some lift in the top end but that can be eq'd out if need be. Ive used it gett on acc guitar voice strings drum o/h brass etc.


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## mike_solar (Mar 8, 2017)

I'd check out http://www.oktavamod.com. I've purchased a couple of mics from Michael and his MK-012-01 sounds pretty great. I frequently record guitar, violin, cello, and all sorts of acoustic instruments with his mics.


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## jonathanprice (Mar 8, 2017)

I recorded George Doering for BANDITS with two matched C414's, next to each other at about a right angle, about 16" from the sound hole. I liked the result. But, of course, it's kind of hard to screw up that kind of source material.


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## GtrString (Mar 9, 2017)

Depends on what you want. If you just want the acoustic in a mix to support another instrument or floating on top to add a percussive effect, a large condenser mic can often eat up too much frequency space. Then a small condenser like you suggest takes up less real estate and is easier to fit in there. Ive found you dont need much, so a small budget should suffice. Personally I like an sm58 on acoustic, as I often find it to sit well in a mix, especially if you are tucking the acoustic track in with an electric gtr track.

A small condenser mic provides a little more top end and can give the acoustic its own signature in a dense mix. If the track is more sparse and you need to feature the acoustic, a large condenser could work well, if you have the room (or if the mic has a highpass switch). A cheap Rode NT1a often works well (no kidding!), as it gives a crisp top end on acoustic gtr and brings a lot of the overtones out.

In Nashville a lot of guys also favour the Audio-Technica's, which is smoother and not as pronounced in the top, but you know that. Aand of course, if you need it to be darker a Royer is king. Depends on what you want.

There is a prettyvgood youtube vid on this also


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## JeffvR (Mar 9, 2017)

I have a JZ Black Hole, it's amazing on acoustic guitar! A really crisp nice hi-end. http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/jz-black-hole The BH-2 model is a bit above your budget though..


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## Kaufmanmoon (Mar 9, 2017)

I bought this around 6 years ago. 
http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/se-electronics-gm10

I'll use this alongside a nicer condenser eventually, but i'll tell ya. It's bloody handy for when you need to overdub a take or just move around in the studio.


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## wst3 (Mar 9, 2017)

I am anxiously awaiting delivery of a Mojave MA-101, so I'll report back after I get it. In the meantime, I am the odd man out, I'm not a fan of the C-414 or the SM-81 on acoustic guitars. Could be my guitars, my ears, or just my tastes.

For me, for my guitars, and for the sounds I'm after my favorite microphones are the Neumann KM-84, and the Schoeps CMC6/MK41 - neither of which I can afford<G>! Of the microphones I do own my favorites would be the AKG C61 or C451, the Audio-Technica AT-4031, and the Earthworks SR77 for small capsules, and the Neumann TLM-193, Blue Baby Bottle, or Shure KSM-32 for large capsules. I've also grown quite fond of the Royer R-101, although it is a decidedly different sound.

Of the other microphones mentioned, I've been really impressed with the built-from-scratch microphones at Oktavamod.com Michael is pretty darned smart about microphones! Unfortunately my personal experience with Oktava microphones themselves has been less successful.

So many guitars to record... so many microphones to record with...


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## Smikes77 (Mar 9, 2017)

wst3 said:


> I am anxiously awaiting delivery of a Mojave MA-101, so I'll report back after I get it. In the meantime, I am the odd man out, I'm not a fan of the C-414 or the SM-81 on acoustic guitars. Could be my guitars, my ears, or just my tastes.
> 
> For me, for my guitars, and for the sounds I'm after my favorite microphones are the Neumann KM-84, and the Schoeps CMC6/MK41 - neither of which I can afford<G>! Of the microphones I do own my favorites would be the AKG C61 or C451, the Audio-Technica AT-4031, and the Earthworks SR77 for small capsules, and the Neumann TLM-193, Blue Baby Bottle, or Shure KSM-32 for large capsules. I've also grown quite fond of the Royer R-101, although it is a decidedly different sound.
> 
> ...



Could you elaborate on your experience please?


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## Smikes77 (Mar 9, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> AT4050
> OCTAVA MK-012 (might be able to get a matched pair)
> Shure SM-81
> Used C414
> ...



I have a fireface ucx. Will this do?


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## synthpunk (Mar 9, 2017)

RME uses a good clean preamp. I like to think you can never go wrong with Neve or API preamps. If you cannot afford those you can look at alternatives from Golden Audio Project (GAP) or Warm Audio.



Smikes77 said:


> I have a fireface ucx. Will this do?


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## Smikes77 (Mar 9, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> RME uses a good clean preamp. I like to think you can never go wrong with Neve or API preamps. If you cannot afford those you can look at alternatives from Golden Audio Project (GAP) or Warm Audio.



Sorry for not being sparky tonight. Do you think I should get a pre amp (Neve/API) on top of the ucx?


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## wst3 (Mar 9, 2017)

Smikes77 said:


> Could you elaborate on your experience please?


Unfortunately we are entering the realm of "dancing about architecture", but I'll try...

Both the C-414 (and mine is an older one with the brass capsule) and the SM-81 sound overly bright, or harsh or strident (pick your favorite adjective) compared to the other microphones I use. Now if we were talking about a maple mandolin or a banjo that would make sense, but this applies to almost every acoustic guitar I've ever recorded. 

Exceptions that I remember - I had a Gibson J-200 in here years ago and the C-414 loved it, or vica versa. My father in law had a Larrivee Parlor guitar that also recorded nicely with the C-414. (I haven't owned a pair of SM-81s in years, so I can't really provide examples I'm afraid.)

But for the most part I have just always had trouble taming the C-414. I could always apply EQ, but I prefer to get the overall tonal balance by selecting and placing the microphone. 

Does any of that make sense?


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## Smikes77 (Mar 9, 2017)

wst3 said:


> Unfortunately we are entering the realm of "dancing about architecture", but I'll try...
> 
> Both the C-414 (and mine is an older one with the brass capsule) and the SM-81 sound overly bright, or harsh or strident (pick your favorite adjective) compared to the other microphones I use. Now if we were talking about a maple mandolin or a banjo that would make sense, but this applies to almost every acoustic guitar I've ever recorded.
> 
> ...



That is useful info that I will heed. I was wondering mainly about you experience with Oktava


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## thesteelydane (Mar 9, 2017)

All my audio engineer friends are raving about the Aston Origin, claiming they prefer it on guitar over pretty much anything. And with your budget, you can almost afford two.

Edit: Or 1 Origin and 1 of their new small diaphragm condensers, the one with the laser targeting system (I love that idea). Then you'd have some choice.


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## synthpunk (Mar 9, 2017)

I cannot decide that for you MikeS that's a decision you have to make for yourself. Is there a pro audio dealer in your area that would let you borrow over a weekend perhaps to try?



Smikes77 said:


> Sorry for not being sparky tonight. Do you think I should get a pre amp (Neve/API) on top of the ucx?


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## Smikes77 (Mar 9, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> I cannot decide that for you MikeS that's a decision you have to make for yourself. Is there a pro audio dealer in your area that would let you borrow over a weekend perhaps to try?



I was just wondering...

I used to have a motu ultralite, but then went for the ucx, and have found DI'd instruments more of a struggle with regards to noise, even with the Gemini mic (but not the cheaper audio technica weirdly).

No one would let me try one out down here. If I said "I won't take your word as absolute" would you hazard a guess?


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## synthpunk (Mar 9, 2017)

Names like Neve an API have a legacy of adding vibe to sound a special magic something so to speak. If that's something that you think will appeal to you and your recording process and what you want to do then I would look into it if not then you're probably fine what you have.


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## wst3 (Mar 9, 2017)

Smikes77 said:


> That is useful info that I will heed. I was wondering mainly about you experience with Oktava


Perhaps it was poorly set expectations, but I just didn't like them much. The pair I was using was not well matched, and matching is not as important as some marketing lit suggests, but these were really different - which is a warning sign all by itself! I was also underwhelmed with the way they were made, they seemed flimsy. But mostly I didn't think they sounded all that good. Which is, of course, personal taste.

I believe Michael Joly does a really nice job making them better, but at that point I think I'd rather have his own design.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 9, 2017)

Smikes77 said:


> That is useful info that I will heed. I was wondering mainly about you experience with Oktava



Oktava is more than one thing. There's the original Russian Oktava, followed by Chinese copies, followed by an English company that used the name for some mics that had some major issues. And for all I know there are others.

The thing about cheap mics from 20 years ago is that you could get lucky or not.  It was the same with Shanghai U87-alikes: one would be pretty good, another would be toilet. My impression is that things have changed since then.

I got extremely lucky with my Oktava pair - they're really nice, and they weren't expensive.

Another thing about acoustic guitars is that a mic can sound fantastic on one instrument but terrible on another (up to a point). There are also some that sound great on everything, such as the Royer instrument mics. They're certainly darker than condenser mics, as someone wrote earlier, but very detailed. I love those mics and wish I did enough recording to justify owning a pair.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 9, 2017)

Clever acoustic guitar recording technique I learned a few years ago: one mic pointing at the low strings, another at the high ones. Pan them opposite directions for spread-out stereo.


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## tigersun (Mar 9, 2017)

If you don't have a dedicated DI box for DI you should get one, it will make an immediate and noticeable impact. 

Anyway, as far as mics it can be hard. Do you have a brighter or darker guitar that you want to balance out or keep more or less as is? As far as preamps, I'd say find the mics you like before diving into any and take it one step at a time. I've used SM57, Heil PR30 (sounds like an SM57 but way better and clearer), and AKG Odin on my acoustic. I had a fairly cheap MXR ribbon at one point, but I think it was just too cheap to be worth comparing anything to. I do wish a I had a stereo pair because I've always wanted to record acoustic in stereo...

Go for one of the popular condensers and if you hate it return it.


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## kurtvanzo (Mar 9, 2017)

thesteelydane said:


> All my audio engineer friends are raving about the Aston Origin, claiming they prefer it on guitar over pretty much anything. And with your budget, you can almost afford two.
> 
> Edit: Or 1 Origin and 1 of their new small diaphragm condensers, the one with the laser targeting system (I love that idea). Then you'd have some choice.



I would check into this mic (Aston Oriigin), specifically made for acoustic guitar, which really needs a mic that has clarity with picking up too much string noise, and a solid bottom end. Micing technique will also really effect the sound, miking the neck with one mic and the hole with another can give you a decent stereo sound.



And I would save your money and not get a preamp yet. Once your have a mic(s) you love, then you can decide if an extra preamp is necessary (probably not). Cheers.


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## wst3 (Mar 12, 2017)

I have no idea if this will be helpful, but I received my Mojave M-101 and I had to do a shootout to satisfy my own curiosity. Since I had the tracks I figured I'd share them here. There is a lengthy readme in the directory that describes the whole process. For now I've put the files HERE because I didn't want to convert them to a compressed format.


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## KEnK (Mar 13, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Oktava is more than one thing. There's the original Russian Oktava, followed by...


A friend of mine has an original Russian pair. Amazing mics! 
You can change the polar pattern on them- a very cool feature.
We recorded a small crap zither once- unbelievable amount of bass response!

back to Acoustic gtr-
I've been using a pair of Rode nt5s for years.
Always get a great sound regardless if I use 1 or 2 of them.
Great value for the money. Good for percussion too.

nice stereo tip Nick- I'll try that one eventually.

k


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## Smikes77 (Mar 13, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Clever acoustic guitar recording technique I learned a few years ago: one mic pointing at the low strings, another at the high ones. Pan them opposite directions for spread-out stereo.



How does this compare with one pointed down the neck and one pointed towards the bridge/soundhole?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 13, 2017)

Smikes: what you're doing is either combining sounds or choosing more of the mic position you like. You can get a nice wide sound that way too - if that's what you want.

The high/low strings technique requires that you get the position right, but it lets you pan low to high (or v.v.).

There are lots of ways to get a good acoustic guitar sound. You can stick the mic over the guitarist's shoulder to get the sound he/she hears, for example. And using a room mic (usually a large-diaphragm condenser) farther back isn't a bad idea with any instrument.

The main thing is to avoid phasing problems, and the 3:1 rule of thumb is a safe way to do that: position the second mic at least 3x the distance the first one is from the source. That doesn't apply to the standard stereo miking techniques (coincident pair, XY, etc.), just if you're picking up the sound from different positions to get different sounds.


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## Smikes77 (Mar 13, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Smikes: what you're doing is either combining sounds or choosing more of the mic position you like. You can get a nice wide sound that way too - if that's what you want.
> 
> The high/low strings technique requires that you get the position right, but it lets you pan low to high (or v.v.).
> 
> ...



Thanks Nick. Yes, that 3:1 rule is useful to know for sure. There`s some really good suggestions on here which I`m going to explore.


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## mdvirtual (Mar 16, 2017)

For my Yairi acoustic I use an SM81 angled downward at the 12th fret and a 4050 close in on the top just below & behind the bridge (or just the SM81 for a mono track). Pre is an Amek 9098 DMA.

I usually end up panned about 10:00/2:00, with the neck giving the sparkle and the body filling in the warmth on the opposite side. For layered parts I'll reverse the panning since the perceived position seems to favor the position of the neck mic.

I've also tried an X/Y pair of SM81's to capture hi/lo strings in stereo. Never really liked that setup. It was very sensitive to variations in position, and awkward getting in and out of the chair. Plus it felt like an awful lot of hardware hanging in front of me as I was playing.


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