# SSDs for sample libraries



## NameOfBand (Nov 6, 2016)

Hello guys!

Sorry if this question has already been answered. I wonder if there is any point having SSD drives for sample libraries, and by sample libraries I mean WAV samples or similiar beeing used as they are, like sound effects and stuff like that. If they don't have to be streamed super fast via a virtual instument, can stuff like this be stored on a regular 5400 rpm drive? What do you think? How do you guys have it set up? Thanks for all the help from this community!


----------



## EvilDragon (Nov 6, 2016)

I'd never store any samples on less than 7200 rpm.


----------



## synthpunk (Nov 6, 2016)

Solid SSD's (Samsung & Crucual are the choice around here) for boot, application, and samples. 7200 Raid 0 dual spinners for redundant backup and media. Hybrid and 5400 drives get swapped out asap.


----------



## EvilDragon (Nov 6, 2016)

SSDs don't have RPM


----------



## elpedro (Nov 6, 2016)

SSD's are the way to go. I still remember the agonizing waits and the creative road-bumps that loading big libraries entailed. Mostly a thing of the past.My fav for operating system is Samsung, and for sample drive i have got Sandisk. And a big-ass 6tb spinner hdd for storage and small or occasional libs.


----------



## wst3 (Nov 6, 2016)

I don't (yet) use an SSD for my sound effects or data that gets loaded into memory (e.g. soft synths). For these I find a 7200 rpm drive to be more than sufficient. It is also sufficient for projects. For anything that might need to stream I use an SSD. I also use an SSD for my OS/Apps drive. So far it has worked out quite well.


----------



## jcrosby (Nov 6, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> Even your most basic chinese brand SSD will be better (and more expensive) than a HDD. I know people who are being served well by such things off of AliExpress and GearBest... I'm not sure I would vouch for the reliability though.


I would personally avoid places like these like the plague unless you want to wind up with a knock off...

http://www.overclock.net/t/1471321/aliexpress-fake-gpus
(I realize their GPUs... That being said if you've ever been an ebay buyer you can track back a lot of shady 'too good to be true' ebay deals to places like these...)


.


----------



## jcrosby (Nov 6, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> You can't blindly buy from places like this. Almost everything is a knock-off, but some of them do surprisingly work.


Sure, but there's no quality control or guarantee of how long it will work... Considering the cost of sample libraries or irreplaceability of lost projects it just aint worth the risk... 

Add to that the risk of sending your personal information to a shady unregulated site famous for selling fakes, as well as claims of stolen goods like iphones and laptops... That should be reason enough to stay the hell away


----------



## jcrosby (Nov 6, 2016)

To the OP, I've gone all solid state and would personally never go back to platter drives again. Not only is the performance increase very noticeable, I can't even count how many platter drives I've had fail on me over the 7 last years or so... 

Even for backups they've been sketchy, Seagate being the worst of all... At least 6 of them have died on me, some within under a year...


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Nov 6, 2016)

When i import sound effects or other standalone 'samples', i usually have my DAW duplicate those files into my project folder. For this method, i dont see why it would matter what drive they are on to begin with, and so mine are kept on a standard HDD to save space on my SSDs.
It all comes down to what drive it will be streamed / read from.


----------



## jcrosby (Nov 6, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> I wouldn't say AliExpress is "shady", it's fairly well known. At the end of the day it's mostly comparable to ebay instead of amazon. Of course, I'm not making any claim as to the quality or reliability of things in there in general, it's just I do know people using them (for some time) who have been surprisingly served. Irony of ironies, amongst what are all actually knock-offs, there are some that are better than others.
> 
> I wouldn't consider it, but it's something someone may consider. We all have different budget needs.



Fair enough, glad you at least don't take the risk either... Everything I've read, watched etc about AliExpress (aka Alibaba's small consumer outlet) points the other way though... (I'm not saying I'm right either... but there is a lot that points in that direction...) Sure I understand we all have budgetary issues, I still can't imagine why anyone would knowingly risk buying a knockoff when your dealing with something that stores everything from projects to personal data... There are even bigger concerns that go far beyond quality, piracy etc... but that's a whole other conversation...

As far as knock offs...


----------



## synthpunk (Nov 7, 2016)

I will take the Samsung 3/5/10 year warranty over knock offs thank you. But I understand others taking a shot if things are tight.


----------



## John Busby (Nov 7, 2016)

do any of you use the black magic dock?
if so, how do you use it.... raid 0, jbod...
i'm considering going this route after the holiday season


----------



## NameOfBand (Nov 7, 2016)

Thanks for the replys. Seems this thread's gone a bit off-topic though... Is there any consensus around this thing? Btw, it doesn't seemt like everybody understood what I was wondering about. I wonder where you guys store "standalone" samples, like sound FX, drum one-shots and stuff like that. Single WAV files in folders. Not VIs. I wonder if it's recommended to have SSDs for this kind of content, or if a HDD is fine. Since you don't have to access a lot samples simulataniously like a VI does, I thought it would be fine? Thanks for all the help.


----------



## synthpunk (Nov 7, 2016)

Yes, I have two BMMD and have installed over 10 in other systems. I just use them as individual drives, each bay has either a Samsung or Crucial 500G drive . I have found no personnel benefits of Raid 1 (more used for video applications) and if one drive would go down it would take the entire raid down. They do use Raid1 configuration at Abbey Rd if your interested.

I do use Raid O dual redundant drives system on my spinners for backups.



johnbusbymusic said:


> do any of you use the black magic dock?
> if so, how do you use it.... raid 0, jbod...
> i'm considering going this route after the holiday season


----------



## mac (Nov 7, 2016)

NameOfBand said:


> Thanks for the replys. Seems this thread's gone a bit off-topic though... Is there any consensus around this thing? Btw, it doesn't seemt like everybody understood what I was wondering about. I wonder where you guys store "standalone" samples, like sound FX, drum one-shots and stuff like that. Single WAV files in folders. Not VIs. I wonder if it's recommended to have SSDs for this kind of content, or if a HDD is fine. Since you don't have to access a lot samples simulataniously like a VI does, I thought it would be fine? Thanks for all the help.



I have over 200gb of assorted samples on a portable 5400 drive, and it's absolutely fine. Most of the samples are relatively short (drum breaks, one shots, vocal fx etc), but there are also some longer ones. I can browse and preview everything with virtually no delays. I also use it with maschine and kits load in a second or two. So yes, save your money, no need in this instance.


----------



## synthpunk (Nov 7, 2016)

If it's not OT it may well be useful to also recommend the Audiofinder application for organizing all your sounds. There are others as well.



mac said:


> I have over 200gb of assorted samples on a portable 5400 drive, and it's absolutely fine. Most of the samples are relatively short (drum breaks, one shots, vocal fx etc), but there are also some longer ones. I can browse and preview everything with virtually no delays. I also use it with maschine and kits load in a second or two. So yes, save your money, no need in this instance.


----------



## jcrosby (Nov 7, 2016)

NameOfBand said:


> Thanks for the replys. Seems this thread's gone a bit off-topic though... Is there any consensus around this thing? Btw, it doesn't seemt like everybody understood what I was wondering about. I wonder where you guys store "standalone" samples, like sound FX, drum one-shots and stuff like that. Single WAV files in folders. Not VIs. I wonder if it's recommended to have SSDs for this kind of content, or if a HDD is fine. Since you don't have to access a lot samples simulataniously like a VI does, I thought it would be fine? Thanks for all the help.



Sorry... Yes that's totally fine. Fast drives fro VIs, slower drives fine for one shots, sound fx etc...


----------



## kitekrazy (Nov 7, 2016)

I was wondering how many use 500GB SSDs for streaming. You can find a lot of sales on those. Did you reduce your drive space inventory by removing libraries you rarely use? All of my storage drives are 1TD HDDs. It would be very pricey to replace those as SSD.


----------



## JohnG (Nov 7, 2016)

kitekrazy said:


> how many use 500GB SSDs for streaming



I use a lot of smaller SSDs -- 500s and even 250s. Many new motherboards have lots o' SATA ports. I did get one PCIe card-based drive for strings which has performed well.


----------



## galactic orange (Nov 7, 2016)

I just got a Crucial MX300 750GB SSD to use as a sample drive and that seems to be the sweet spot right now in terms of price per GB (~$170). The jump up to 1TB is proportionally more expensive (at least for the Crucial brand) but look for Black Friday deals on SSDs to save a lot. That's a great time to buy.


----------



## synthpunk (Nov 7, 2016)

Watch those Black Friday and Cyber Monday sales. I hope there might be a Samsung Evo 1TB for $199 out there.

You can get the new Evo750 500G for about $135 usd, 3 year warr.

I am using 500G Evo850's & various Crucials.


----------



## jcrosby (Nov 8, 2016)

kitekrazy said:


> I was wondering how many use 500GB SSDs for streaming. You can find a lot of sales on those. Did you reduce your drive space inventory by removing libraries you rarely use? All of my storage drives are 1TD HDDs. It would be very pricey to replace those as SSD.


RIAD 0 them together. Twice the space and twice the speed... My laptop is set up like this and reads samples just over a gig a second and I have tons of room for more... I'll be doing this to my desktop's SSDs once I receive a PCIe flash SSD I have my eye on.


----------



## mac88104 (Nov 8, 2016)

I use 2 Samsung PCIe/M.2 950 PRO 512 GB on a single PC. More than 700 tracks are streamed for the moment (Spitfire, OT, 8Dio, etc...) with 6kb preload size in Kontakt and no problem. Latency almost reaches 0, except if I use heavy plugins effects (I would only use later for mixing and mastering) but it is another story.

I bought 3 SSD's 750 EVO 256 GB last month but I am going to send them back to replace them with 2 * 500 GB. I was afraid to have too much patches on a single SSD but Blakus posts he uses 4 1 TB Samsung SSD with no problem, also on a single middle average old PC (no VEPRO), and he loads almost 220 kontakt instances in his main template, so...

I plan to have, in addition to my 2 Samsung 950 PROs, 4 or 6 (depending my future needs) SATA 500 GB Samsung 750 EVO in a near future. No raid 0, no VEPRO, I will just equivalently distribute my libraries on my SSD's and regularly purge my Kontakt patches. I also will avoid to exceed 75% of my SSD's room, and I plan to deactivate unused tracks if my machine begin to shows signs of weakness. I forgot to say that I also have 128 GB of RAM, so a good margin to increase the Kontakt preload size if necessary, regarding the fact that, in this power management strategy, my patches will be always purged at 95 % (deactivating tracks will be the last stand). Also forgot to mention that my CPU can be overclocked, if necessary, to 4.4 GHz without any problem (already tested) but it never exceeded 10-15 % charge load until now.


----------



## jamwerks (Nov 8, 2016)

There are Samsung Pro 960 M.2 1Tb due out Feb. 1. Looks like an Evo model will be here before.

As for the Raid, do we really need to do this for samples? Does it make the whole system work faster?


----------



## mac88104 (Nov 8, 2016)

I don't think so, I heard many times that a good distribution of the librairies gives similar results.


----------



## mac88104 (Nov 8, 2016)

I think it mainly relies on the CPU and motherboard bus. When SSD's work in parallel (considering you have separated strings, brass, woodwinds, etc...), it also multiplies the IOPS and bandwith of the system.


----------



## chimuelo (Nov 8, 2016)

Getting rid of a video card on any DAW that runs 4ghz or faster gives me the best bandwidth.
Modern iGPUs are so good these days they leave the board and sub memory systems in optimal audio mode by not competing for bandwidth.


----------



## NameOfBand (Nov 8, 2016)

Thanks for all the help! So it seem like you are fine using a HDD for "standalone" samples. Do you think the RPM matters? Are 7200 rpm drives much pricier than 5400 rpm drives?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 8, 2016)

http://appleinsider.com/articles/16...ay-for-speedy-optane-storage-in-future-models

So maybe SSDs will be fast enough to substitute for RAM. Regular hard drives are 10,000X as slow as current RAM. This one is 8X as slow.

Is that fast enough for streaming samples? My hunch is yes, especially with RAM buffers.


----------



## JohnG (Nov 8, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> As for the Raid, do we really need to do this for samples? Does it make the whole system work faster?



Not much faster, according to the very few studies I've seen. OWC sells PCIe-based setups of which I am a purchaser; those are RAIDs technically, but it's a single piece of hardware with multiple mini-SSDs physically mounted on the card. There is no way I can discern to disaggregate them into a JBOD setup.


----------



## kitekrazy (Nov 8, 2016)

JohnG said:


> I use a lot of smaller SSDs -- 500s and even 250s. Many new motherboards have lots o' SATA ports. I did get one PCIe card-based drive for strings which has performed well.



How many SATA ports does your board have? Mine has 6.


----------



## JohnG (Nov 8, 2016)

I have four PCs and I can't remember exactly how many each has. I think one has either six or maybe even eight.


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Nov 8, 2016)

My X99 board has 8x SATA3 (6Gb/s), 2x SATAe, 4x M.2.


----------



## jcrosby (Nov 8, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> There are Samsung Pro 960 M.2 1Tb due out Feb. 1. Looks like an Evo model will be here before.
> 
> As for the Raid, do we really need to do this for samples? Does it make the whole system work faster?


No I suggested this based on the assumption that they were referring to typical SATA III Drives based on the fact that they mentioned HDDs... Since my machine does have older bays and I spent a small fortune on SSDs I RAID them together to maximize performance and storage at the same time without throwing the money I've spent away...


----------



## jamieboo (Nov 10, 2016)

3x unraided 500gb Samsung EVO 850's for Hollywood Diamond and other bits and pieces.
Delightful!


----------



## Hafer (Nov 14, 2016)

NameOfBand said:


> Do you think the RPM matters? Are 7200 rpm drives much pricier than 5400 rpm drives?


At least they are louder, if that matters. Can't beat SSD in this discipline, too


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 14, 2016)

I am hoping so much to find some SSDs in a Black Friday Sale. I seriously need to upgrade and get at least another 1tb. 2tb of SSD would be great. I'm just trying to figure out whether I should get Samsung 850 Evos (Sata 3) or M.2. Either to be plugged into a PCIe adapter to go into my last free PCIe slot in Mac Pro 5,1. I guess the decision will come down to price. Having the SF Hans Zimmer Piano sitting in the cloud since the September sale is driving me mad!


----------



## mac (Nov 14, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> I am hoping so much to find some SSDs in a Black Friday Sale. I seriously need to upgrade and get at least another 1tb. 2tb of SSD would be great. I'm just trying to figure out whether I should get Samsung 850 Evos (Sata 3) or M.2. Either to be plugged into a PCIe adapter to go into my last free PCIe slot in Mac Pro 5,1. I guess the decision will come down to price. Having the SF Hans Zimmer Piano sitting in the cloud since the September sale is driving me mad!



Im hunting for a couple of 1tb ssds too, so give me a shout if you find any bargains and I'll do the same


----------



## synthpunk (Nov 14, 2016)

Crucial MX300 1TB is $245usd right now @ B&H. Hope we see some below $200usd in about a week.


----------



## John Busby (Nov 14, 2016)

synthpunk said:


> Crucial MX300 1TB is $245usd right now @ B&H. Hope we see some below $200usd in about a week.


what kind of adapter/dock would you guys recommend with 1 or 2 of these crucial ssd's or any 2.5" ssd's for that matter
i've got an Imac


----------



## mac (Nov 14, 2016)

johnbusbymusic said:


> what kind of adapter/dock would you guys recommend with 1 or 2 of these crucial ssd's or any 2.5" ssd's for that matter
> i've got an Imac



Just grab something like this


----------



## NameOfBand (Nov 16, 2016)

mac said:


> Just grab something like this



Can't see the picture


----------



## Hafer (Nov 16, 2016)

Well, yours is the same as @mac's


----------



## synthpunk (Nov 16, 2016)

*http://tinyurl.com/jzx5fw2*

Amazon (and some others) links do not always show up here, its either a browser or Adblock issue I think. Might be worth mentioning it to Andre.


----------



## Flux (Nov 16, 2016)

Looking for an external SSD for project files only and one for sample libraries. Using a MacBook Pro, and portability is pretty important at the moment. Are there any SSD's that would be considered standard for what I'm looking for?


----------



## synthpunk (Nov 16, 2016)

I would go Samsung Evo or Pro (5 & 10 yr warr.) for internal boot SSD. 250G should be enough.

Best bang for the buck for external + case. Crucial MX300 seem to be very good for the price right now.

There are also the Samsung T3 series that come in usb 3.1 cases.
*http://tinyurl.com/jnx8jmx*


----------



## Harcourt (Nov 16, 2016)

synthpunk said:


> Crucial MX300 1TB is $245usd right now @ B&H. Hope we see some below $200usd in about a week.


I just bought one for A$280.70 (approx US$207.00) on ebay from a site located in New Zealand. As I'm located in Australia, postage is cheap.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Crucial-MX300-1TB-2-5-inch-SSD-7mm-9-5mm-adaptor-530MB-s-reading-510-/322209976195?hash=item4b05360f83:g:Ss4AAOSwTZ1Xm~IA

EDIT: Price has now gone up by A$70.00!


----------



## synthpunk (Nov 18, 2016)

Mushkin Reaktor 480G $114usd @Tiger
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...5f88c9a4&elqaid=379&elqat=1&elqCampaignId=257

PNY 960G $219usd @B&H
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1261815-REG/pny_technologies_ssd7cs1311_960_rb_960gb_cs1311_sata_iii.html


----------



## passsacaglia (Nov 20, 2016)

I think I posted in the wrong thread but reading this review and see the great results that tops with the 850 EVO the MX300 is a great competitor and awesome for it's price, 1050GB (80GB more than the 960GB versions) at 249 is simply irresistable!! #hueylewis 
http://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/crucial-mx300-ssd-review-1050gb-micron-3d-nand-meets-raid-0/


----------



## Ashermusic (Nov 20, 2016)

On my rig, I have had lesser performance with Crucial than Samsung, not sure why.


----------



## URL (Nov 20, 2016)

I use Samsung pro 1Gb for streaming samples and evo for OS X and so far it does what I want.
Samsung-Pro is a little pricey other than that I find them fast and reliable.


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 21, 2016)

What are people's thoughts on SSDs that aren't Samsung? I only have Samsung 850 Evo SSDs in both machines so far and they are great for sample libraries. Just wondering about Sandisk or other brands that are cheaper in price? I keep looking on Amazon and haven't seen any great BF deals yet so I'm assuming they will be this weekend? Really hope so anyway!


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 21, 2016)

URL said:


> I use Samsung pro 1Gb for streaming samples and evo for OS X and so far it does what I want.
> Samsung-Pro is a little pricey other than that I find them fast and reliable.


To be honest, you should really try out using the Samsung Pro for OSX and the Evos for Sample streaming. The Pros have very little benefit for read speeds and cost a lot more! 

Although, of course, it's none of my business!


----------



## garyhiebner (Nov 21, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> What are people's thoughts on SSDs that aren't Samsung? I only have Samsung 850 Evo SSDs in both machines so far and they are great for sample libraries. Just wondering about Sandisk or other brands that are cheaper in price? I keep looking on Amazon and haven't seen any great BF deals yet so I'm assuming they will be this weekend? Really hope so anyway!


Definitely better performance on the Samsungs with their faster sequential read and write speeds


----------



## passsacaglia (Nov 21, 2016)

jono! 
I always go to thessdreview and compare all reviews of SSD's I'm interested in. 
I was 99% sure I was gonna hit MydigitalSSD BP5e's with their Awesome price (cheap as hell and almost same performance as 850's at some tests). And like u said - sample streaming functions they are great and have served people well. 
Now Crucial MX300 is coming up and even the 1050GB model performs suuuper amazing.
I love to compare graphs and check speeds, amazon.com also have great reviews by users so check them too.
But basically, thessdreview have great tests and u see the pattern of which tests come where and they always have good comparisonsnin the same graphs of similar and popular products, always trust them. And then u see all tests and also 30GB read and write speeds in one test, aim find that and compare all the SSD models u are watching.
At this moment, mx300 is in the top and at 249 for 1050GB (90GB more than some 960GB versions that claims 1TB) that's a w e s o m e. Sometimes u stream/read large files, have that in mind


----------



## passsacaglia (Nov 21, 2016)

A plus with the 3D V-NAND 
http://www.thessdreview.com/our-rev...-review-1050gb-micron-3d-nand-meets-raid-0/6/


----------



## URL (Nov 21, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> To be honest, you should really try out using the Samsung Pro for OSX and the Evos for Sample streaming. The Pros have very little benefit for read speeds and cost a lot more!
> 
> Although, of course, it's none of my business!



One Pc Slave use 61Gb of 64 Gb in ram and my config in Kontakt that I use more of the disk stream speed than ram, I don't find any benefit of having a fast startup of my computer but having so fast and secure streaming as possible and 10.000 iops is a little better than Evo or a little worse than M.2...so yes you right and wrong...


----------



## synthpunk (Nov 25, 2016)

Was able to grab one of the crucial mx300 750g for $99


----------



## DonovanSullivan (Nov 25, 2016)

synthpunk said:


> Was able to grab one of the crucial mx300 750g for $99


Mind sharing where you found that?


----------



## Harcourt (Nov 25, 2016)

DonovanSullivan said:


> Mind sharing where you found that?


....my guess Newegg (US) ebay shop...all sold out.


----------



## passsacaglia (Nov 26, 2016)

Ahh I went to sleep to early. 
Cyber Monday it is for me. $99 for 750GB is crazy. Should've picked up one or two. Found this:

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/695844-uscan-amazon-crucial-mx300-750gb-750gb-99usd-139cad/


----------



## synthpunk (Nov 26, 2016)

It was amazon check back Monday to see if they have any other deals



DonovanSullivan said:


> Mind sharing where you found that?


----------



## Guffy (Nov 26, 2016)

Is cyber monday generally a better day to find cheap electronics/pc components online? 
Was really hoping to find most of the parts i need for my new rig on sale yesterday, but only managed to snag a Crucial SSD.
Let's hope monday brings the goods.


----------



## synthpunk (Nov 26, 2016)

Yep



Fugdup said:


> Is cyber monday generally a better day to find cheap electronics/pc components online?
> Was really hoping to find most of the parts i need for my new rig on sale yesterday, but only managed to snag a Crucial SSD.
> Let's hope monday brings the goods.


----------

