# Musescore 4 is officially released



## Navid Lancaster

Musescore 4 is officially released. Installed with no problems of both of my computers. It does take a while to get the sounds from Muse Hub though. I guess a LOT of Musescore users are clogging that server.


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## chopin4525

Now this does put a big smile on my face. Downloading now.


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## barrychab

Still pretty buggy but looks great.


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## Ambrose Luxor

Looks great! Here is the announcement video:


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## jon wayne

Why am I enjoying Musescore more than Dorico right now?


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## QuiteAlright

Interesting that they launched with a new orchestral plugin for playback. Would be neat to hear some comparisons!


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## Chris Schmidt




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## chopin4525

Graphically wise it's miles ahead what was before. In the videos they also say the playback section it's still a work in progress so we can expect more stuff coming in the future. Looking forward to it. 
The library it's not outstanding compared to commercial counterpart but it's not like I am going to spit on 15 GB of free content.


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## José Herring

I am torn between getting Dorico or waiting for Musescore to catch up.


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## Markrs

José Herring said:


> I torn between getting Dorico or waiting for Musescore to catch up.


I resolved this issue, by getting Dorico Elements (it was only about $40 in the recent sale if you upgraded from the free Dorico SE), which gives me enough to try out some of the labour saving features to help in the composition process.

However, the playback features on musescore are very exciting and for me make rendering out notation based composition easier, just like Staffpad does.


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## ZenBYD

QuiteAlright said:


> Interesting that they launched with a new orchestral plugin for playback. Would be neat to hear some comparisons!


Not sure if you need a comparison... sounds great though...



I like the staffpad style approach to it... no fuss...


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## tack

Unfortunately their backend is not responding, so Muse Hub is a brick.


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## dcoscina

A few things I’ve written on MuseScore 4 (most in the beta stage mind you)



Momentum- featuring MuseScore 4 sounds


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## TomislavEP

I rarely work with music notation, so have never invested in something like Sibelius or Dorico. The notation options in REAPER get the job done when I need them, but should I need something more flexible, I would definitely check out MuseScore 4. I have tried the older versions in the past; seems to have gone quite far since then. Also, it looks pretty sleek.


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## Jett Hitt

There are so many Musescore 4 threads that I don't know where to post this, but this seemed like a significant announcement. (No Dorico expression maps for me!!! At least not until I see how well this works.)


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## Markrs

Jett Hitt said:


> There are so many Musescore 4 threads that I don't know where to post this, but this seemed like a significant announcement. (No Dorico expression maps for me!!! At least not until I see how well this works.)


Would make a big difference, without CC the VSTs are not that useful. The idea of being able to use a playback engine and VSTs in notation could be really powerful.

I am just wondering what their plans are for the playback engine, 3rd party libraries?


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## Jett Hitt

Markrs said:


> Would make a big difference, without CC the VSTs are not that useful. The idea of being able to use a playback engine and VSTs in notation could be really powerful.
> 
> I am just wondering what their plans are for the playback engine, 3rd party libraries?


I don't think that is possible. Too many variables. As I understand it, you will be able to add VSTs to the existing sounds, but all of the playback parameters will have to be defined by you, just like in a DAW.


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## TCMQL1

For a 15gb library that is completely free and playing from notated score only, these examples are pretty incredible sounding. Makes you wonder how much better sample libraries could be if only they weren't shackled by the limitations of DAWs/VST/MIDI.


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## joebaggan

dcoscina said:


> A few things I’ve written on MuseScore 4 (most in the beta stage mind you)
> 
> 
> 
> Momentum- featuring MuseScore 4 sounds



Wow, that "Momentum" is a cool piece and sounds great! What were your influences on that one - Stravinsky among others?


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## VSTHero

They are interested in libraries specific designed or modified to work with the playback engine - it seems like the big difference is ability of the player to continuously look at the score without relying on a short look ahead/delay feature. It’s going to take some time though for MuseSounds to catch up with the potential and for other libraries to get made. Currently I can get better playback from Expression maps and CS but the Musescore crew are really investing in the future / getting past current limitations with this approach.


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## dcoscina

joebaggan said:


> Wow, that "Momentum" is a cool piece and sounds great! What were your influences on that one - Stravinsky among others?


Prokofiev/Shosty for that opening section then Shosty in the second section.


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## Noeticus

I am so impressed with MuseScore 4 that I hereby give it a Nobel prize!

And, the fact that it is free is mind bending!


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## JSTube

TCMQL1 said:


> For a 15gb library that is completely free and playing from notated score only, these examples are pretty incredible sounding. Makes you wonder how much better sample libraries could be if only they weren't shackled by the limitations of DAWs/VST/MIDI.


Please explain what you mean by this. I wasn't aware MuseScore had reinvented the wheel, and to my knowledge still relies on all those underlying technologies.


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## Snarf

JSTube said:


> Please explain what you mean by this. I wasn't aware MuseScore had reinvented the wheel, and to my knowledge still relies on all those underlying technologies.


It does rely on old tech, but they found some clever workarounds. Tantacrul explains the situation very clearly in this video: 


(In the section on playback.)


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## jon wayne

I was already enjoying the Musescore experience before watching the revamping video. I really appreciate all the talent that was behind it and as I understand, the motivation was to make a great product and not a paycheck. These people are a lot smarter than me, so I just sit back and enjoy, especially knowing it’s an on-going process!


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## cqd

I can't get the new sounds to load..


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## Jett Hitt

cqd said:


> I can't get the new sounds to load..


The prescribed solution to most problems seems to be to delete and reinstall. When I had trouble, this worked for me.


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## cqd

Jett Hitt said:


> The prescribed solution to most problems seems to be to delete and reinstall. When I had trouble, this worked for me.


I've done that several times at this stage, even deleting everything muse related in the registry..


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## cqd

Ok..I just moved the muise sampler file into the musescore folder and it's working..


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## Grymt

cqd said:


> Ok..I just moved the muise sampler file into the musescore folder and it's working..


Could you elaborate on that please, as I'm having the same problem. What file did you move where?


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## cqd

Grymt said:


> Could you elaborate on that please, as I'm having the same problem. What file did you move where?


In the folder I had set them to download to there was an installers folder somewhere with the muse sampler .dll in a zip file..
I moved that to the musescore folder on the c drive and it worked..


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## Grymt

cqd said:


> In the folder I had set them to download to there was an installers folder somewhere with the muse sampler .dll in a zip file..
> I moved that to the musescore folder on the c drive and it worked..


Thanks for your answer, but too bad. I don't have any zip or dll file in the download file for the instruments, no sampler either. I do have a .musedl file with files inside without extension, but if I copy that folder to the program file, nothing happens.


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## Grymt

Right! I reinstalled for the third time after a reboot, and now it works!
Great!


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## cqd

Jeez..I signed up for the musescore Pro membership there too..what a resource..
You can get them sibelius ready too pretty much..
40 bucks well spent..


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## Chris Schmidt

Holy hell that Musesounds is impressive. Better than Noteperformer?


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## jazzdrums22

For those of you working in the new Musescore 4, can you tell how to input a measured tremolo? I've been trying out the new Musescore and cannot seem to find a palette or command for measured tremolo (?)

Thx, Kevin J. 

ps: I've been an occasional 'Notion 6' user for a few years, and I must say, Musescore 4's new playback engine with the 'Muse Sounds' is far superior to Notion, IMO.


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## ssnowe

I did a little bit of research into the github program code used by Musescore 4 and found that every one of the new Musesounds sound libraries are actually Staffpad libraries. That’s why they sound so good.


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## zolhof

ssnowe said:


> I did a little bit of research into the github program code used by Musescore 4 and found that every one of the new Musesounds sound libraries are actually Staffpad libraries. That’s why they sound so good.


Could you kindly elaborate on that? You mean the commercial libraries, like OT, Cinesamples, and Spitfire? Does it explicitly tell the name of the StaffPad libraries?


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## jazzdrums22

jazzdrums22 said:


> For those of you working in the new Musescore 4, can you tell how to input a measured tremolo? I've been trying out the new Musescore and cannot seem to find a palette or command for measured tremolo (?)
> 
> Thx, Kevin J.
> 
> ps: I've been an occasional 'Notion 6' user for a few years, and I must say, Musescore 4's new playback engine with the 'Muse Sounds' is far superior to Notion, IMO.


Nevermind...I found it.


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## 3DC

Snarf said:


> It does rely on old tech, but they found some clever workarounds.


For me its always amazing to see how open source projects with small, clever teams but proper financing get more done then commercial projects with large, professional teams make over decades.


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## thesteelydane

ssnowe said:


> I did a little bit of research into the github program code used by Musescore 4 and found that every one of the new Musesounds sound libraries are actually Staffpad libraries. That’s why they sound so good.


To my understanding they are new recordings done by the staffpad team, not the existing staffpad libraries by 3rd parties.


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## ptram

thesteelydane said:


> To my understanding they are new recordings done by the staffpad team, not the existing staffpad libraries by 3rd parties.


Sampling an orchestra is extremely expensive. I wonder how this could happen.

Paolo


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## thesteelydane

ptram said:


> Sampling an orchestra is extremely expensive. I wonder how this could happen.
> 
> Paolo


It's not like Musegroup lacks funds...I don't understand how they make money, but they do.


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## PhilA

thesteelydane said:


> It's not like Musegroup lacks funds...I don't understand how they make money, but they do.


It’s not hard to get. They charge subscriptions to access user provided content (sheet and tab Ultimate Guitar) whilst simultaneously ignoring any copyright as it’s not their content it’s the users who are doing it 😁 it’s a pretty lucrative business model tbh.


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## Gerbil

I had a glance at sone piano music in musescore. A fair amount of the arrangements are pretty atrocious and poorly notated.


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## PhilA

Gerbil said:


> I had a glance at sone piano music in musescore. A fair amount of the arrangements are pretty atrocious and poorly notated.


I agree but people still pay the Subscription.


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## ptram

PhilA said:


> I agree but people still pay the Subscription.


What I may have understood of the shop is this:

- Much film/game music is only available via transcription and arrangement, and this looks like the most common type of score found there.

- While most classical music is available though the Petrucci library, that also hosts free real recordings, the arrangements found on MS can also be immediately listened at the computer by playing a single button.

- There are arrangements for any type of ensemble. This type of score is also commercially available, but usually a bit outdated and at a high price.

- There is a lot of vanity press. Many subscribe to publish their work.

The MS shop covers needs not covered elsewhere, and in case not at that price.

Paolo


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## cqd

I paid for the year in the sale the other day..
I can already say I feel I've gotten my money's worth, just pulling scores of a few classical pieces..I've converted a couple to sibelius too..they need a bit of cleaning up here and there, but not bad..
Yeah, 35 quid or whatever well spent I reckon..
Also came across the sheet music for the most beautiful piano arrangement of Swan Lake that I've loved for years..


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## sundrowned

According muse the online musescore service has 13.6m registered users. I wouldn't be surprised if they have subscribers in the 100,000s. There's also paid educational material and an education service connected to musescore.


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## rudi

It looks like MuseScore do license a large amount of music:









Why are scores licensed? | Musescore.com







musescore.com


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## chopin4525

It probably belongs more to the general musing section but it was too fun for not sharing it...


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## ssnowe

zolhof said:


> Could you kindly elaborate on that? You mean the commercial libraries, like OT, Cinesamples, and Spitfire? Does it explicitly tell the name of the StaffPad libraries?


Don't know the origination of the Musescore 4 sound libraries as each library is simply identified as a Staffpad file without any other information.

The Musescore 4 sound library files (*.sts extension) use the Opus sound codec (https://opus-codec.org/). There is a set of tools called opus-tools that allow you to learn more about these files, specifically:
opusenc - .wav to .opus encoder
opusdec - .opus to .wav decoder
opusinfo - displays information and performs validity checks on Opus files

Docs can be found at https://opus-codec.org/docs/

The Windows version of opus-tools can be downloaded from https://opus-codec.org/downloads/, the mac version can be installed using Homebrew (brew install opus-tools) and the Ubuntu linux version can be installed using apt (apt install opus-tools).


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## zolhof

ssnowe said:


> Don't know the origination of the Musescore 4 sound libraries as each library is simply identified as a Staffpad file without any other information.
> 
> The Musescore 4 sound library files (*.sts extension) use the Opus sound codec (https://opus-codec.org/). There is a set of tools called opus-tools that allow you to learn more about these files, specifically:
> opusenc - .wav to .opus encoder
> opusdec - .opus to .wav decoder
> opusinfo - displays information and performs validity checks on Opus files
> 
> Docs can be found at https://opus-codec.org/docs/
> 
> The Windows version of opus-tools can be downloaded from https://opus-codec.org/downloads/, the mac version can be installed using Homebrew (brew install opus-tools) and the Ubuntu linux version can be installed using apt (apt install opus-tools).


Thanks ssnowe, I assumed you had a peek inside the sts files, and saw references to the 3rd party libraries. If the Musescore sts files are similar to the StaffPad ones, you can open them in a text editor (I use Notepad++) and see the samples' names, even without the sfz files (the ones that are actually editable in StaffPad). Here's a few lines of Berlin Violins 1 sts:



Spoiler: BSVln1



StaffPad Sample FileŽD 5 1st_violins_fingered-legato_f_A2_+0_-_91-91_TREE.opus; ž 8 1st_violins_fingered-legato_f_A2_+10_-_101-101_TREE.opusž | 8 1st_violins_fingered-legato_f_A2_+11_-_102-102_TREE.opus| as 8 1st_violins_fingered-legato_f_A2_+12_-_103-103_TREE.opusas ÂÜ 5 1st_violins_fingered-legato_f_A2_+1_-_92-92_TREE.opusÂÜ A 5 1st_violins_fingered-legato_f_A2_+2_-_93-93_TREE.opusA Æ° 5 1st_violins_fingered-legato_f_A2_+3_-_94-94_TREE.opusÆ° £ 5 1st_violins_fingered-legato_f_A2_+4_-_95-95_TREE.opus£ ˆ 5 1st_violins_fingered-legato_f_A2_+5_-_96-96_TREE.opusˆ ·õ 5 1st_violins_fingered-legato_f_A2_+6_-_97-97_TREE.opus·õ ”\ 5 1st_violins_fingered-legato_f_A2_+7_-_98-98_TREE.opus”\ qÃ 5 1st_violins_fingered-legato_f_A2_+8_-_99-99_TREE.opusqÃ + 7 1st_violins_fingered-legato_f_A2_+9_-_100-100_TREE.opus+



It's messy but you can still see the original Kontakt names, so I'm kinda curious if there's any hint of the source of the new samples in MS4, in case they decided to recycle some of the 3rd party stuff and forgot to rename them. However, I'm not that curious to download MS4. If you find something, please let us know.


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## ssnowe

zolhof said:


> Thanks ssnowe, I assumed you had a peek inside the sts files, and saw references to the 3rd party libraries. If the Musescore sts files are similar to the StaffPad ones, you can open them in a text editor (I use Notepad++) and see the samples' names, even without the sfz files (the ones that are actually editable in StaffPad). Here's a few lines of Berlin Violins 1 sts:
> 
> It's messy but you can still see the original Kontakt names, so I'm kinda curious if there's any hint of the source of the new samples in MS4, in case they decided to recycle some of the 3rd party stuff and forgot to rename them. However, I'm not that curious to download MS4. If you find something, please let us know.


You can do the same thing with the Musescore *.sts files.


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## Noeticus




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## Noeticus




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## dcoscina

ptram said:


> Sampling an orchestra is extremely expensive. I wonder how this could happen.
> 
> Paolo


David William Hearn began this well before MuseScore bought StaffPad. He'd intended it for Staffpad as an adjunct to the third party libraries.


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## Noeticus




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## Noeticus

This is very, very nice, David.


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## dcoscina

Noeticus said:


> This is very, very nice, David.



Thanks ! this is the beginning of a concert work I began sketching in 2015. It’s very inspired by Bernard Herrmann and Holst to a lesser degree. I’ve actually added more to it (longer intro, more instruments like celesta and cimbasso)

The only issue I have is that MuseScore crashes every time I try to export to XML or Midi file. At some point I want to port it over to Dorico and Staffpad to hear other playback versions of this. And for Dorico, do the engraving properly for real performance

Edit- I copied all parts to a new score and it fixed the problem . Not sure what happened with the original file but it works now. 

Event Horizon- Intro


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## Noeticus

Another GREAT video!


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## Noeticus




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## jon wayne

Noeticus said:


>



I have been looking for that on Muse Hub. What is the title or titles?


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## dcoscina

Noeticus said:


> Another GREAT video!



Thanks Noeticus! I'm having a lot of fun working on this piece.


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## Noeticus

jon wayne said:


> I have been looking for that on Muse Hub. What is the title or titles?


I don't know, but sometimes the comments below the video will have that type of information.


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## Noeticus

dcoscina said:


> Thanks Noeticus! I'm having a lot of fun working on this piece.


Hello David,

I would love to see you create a mockup of Bartok's "Music for Strings Percussion and Celesta" in MuseScore 4 sometime.

Also, your "Creepy Music" reminded me a bit of this...



and more so here at this time stamp...



Have you heard/seen this before?


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## Cdnalsi

Apple Silicon native, any news?


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## dcoscina

Noeticus said:


> Hello David,
> 
> I would love to see you create a mockup of Bartok's "Music for Strings Percussion and Celesta" in MuseScore 4 sometime.
> 
> Also, your "Creepy Music" reminded me a bit of this...
> 
> 
> 
> and more so here at this time stamp...
> 
> 
> 
> Have you heard/seen this before?



The Dracula film I know of, but I'm not familiar with the music. I really dig it! 

Re: Bartok. I'm actually not big on doing mock-ups of orchestra repertoire. No way any sample library is going to do Bartok's incredible piece any justice. Sorry but I have such limited time with my day job and journalism duties so when I do sit down to work on music, I'm trying to do my own stuff as much as possible.


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## Rob

has anyone found a way to turn the internal reverb off?


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## Noeticus

dcoscina said:


> The Dracula film I know of, but I'm not familiar with the music. I really dig it!
> 
> Re: Bartok. I'm actually not big on doing mock-ups of orchestra repertoire. No way any sample library is going to do Bartok's incredible piece any justice. Sorry but I have such limited time with my day job and journalism duties so when I do sit down to work on music, I'm trying to do my own stuff as much as possible.


No worries. I think you are a brilliant composer!


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## rsg22

Rob said:


> has anyone found a way to turn the internal reverb off?


If it's like Staffpad, there's some reverb baked in to the samples themselves, plus another additional reverb effect that can be toggled on/off. I'm not using Musescore 4 yet but it's possible you're hearing the former if you can't find a way to turn it off? Hopefully someone else will chime in and confirm/deny...


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## VSTHero

they shared on the discord that they aren’t baked in but they are programmed into the player - the ability to turn off the reverb will come in a later update (along with other playback controls)


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## SimonCharlesHanna

VSTHero said:


> they shared on the discord that they aren’t baked in but they are programmed into the player - the ability to turn off the reverb will come in a later update (along with other playback controls)


Do you have a link to the discord?


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## Jett Hitt

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Do you have a link to the discord?


Maybe this will get you there. If not, there is an invite in @Tantacrul's Twitter profile.









Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities


Discord is the easiest way to communicate over voice, video, and text. Chat, hang out, and stay close with your friends and communities.




discord.com


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## VSTHero

Developer group chats


Discord MuseScore's Discord Server: https://discord.gg/HwHhXEbJ4r Join the Discord server to get in touch with the developers or hang out with the contributor…




musescore.org





The link is posted in this part of the handbook.


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## Noeticus




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## VSTHero

There's some charm to the MU3 version - sometimes I like that SNESish sound


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## dcoscina

updated

https://musescore.com/user/40456553/scores/9403462/s/XuRJvx?share=copy_link (Event Horizon)


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## Noeticus

BRILLIANT.... (Genius!) With a touch of Holst's Neptune.


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## ALittleNightMusic

As a Dorico user, I thought I'd download this and try it out, but I'm running into a deal killer issue already. The live playback latency of my MIDI keyboard is super high in Musescore 4. And it seems like I can't really edit the buffer for the IO device in the preferences (it is set super high for some reason). Any ideas?

Also, it seems there's no real-time recording of MIDI input?


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## SimonCharlesHanna

ALittleNightMusic said:


> As a Dorico user, I thought I'd download this and try it out, but I'm running into a deal killer issue already. The live playback latency of my MIDI keyboard is super high in Musescore 4. And it seems like I can't really edit the buffer for the IO device in the preferences (it is set super high for some reason). Any ideas?
> 
> Also, it seems there's no real-time recording of MIDI input?


I had the same experience - also found that unlike dorico, it seems to be a very click-heavy program. In Dorico you can hotkey through so much at fantastic speed, I cant seem to get anywhere near that functionality in M4. The sounds are incredible tho.


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## rsg22

How is the Musescore 4 -> Staffpad MusicXML export/import?


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## ALittleNightMusic

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I had the same experience - also found that unlike dorico, it seems to be a very click-heavy program. In Dorico you can hotkey through so much at fantastic speed, I cant seem to get anywhere near that functionality in M4. The sounds are incredible tho.


I uninstalled it - not being able to record in MIDI with low latency is a deal breaker for me. Dorico is the king for a reason.


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## dcoscina

Noeticus said:


> BRILLIANT.... (Genius!) With a touch of Holst's Neptune.



I should hire you as my agent! Thanks for listening and your kind comments! This is going to be a very long concert work for narrator and orchestra (like Goldsmith’s Apollo concert piece from the early 70s).

It will be interesting to see how MuseScore handles Modern writing as the next few sections will abandon tonality and focus on texture when the narrator/text begins.


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## dcoscina

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I uninstalled it - not being able to record in MIDI with low latency is a deal breaker for me. Dorico is the king for a reason.


I’m a huge Dorico fan. I agree that MS4 suffers from a lack of hotkeys and other features that would help improve workflow. But boy do I enjoy hearing my music played back with those sounds. It’s not perfect (brass are still
One dimensional but I’m a brass player so I’m picky) but I see updates every other day for the muse sounds. It’s a very promising start.


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## ALittleNightMusic

dcoscina said:


> I’m a huge Dorico fan. I agree that MS4 suffers from a lack of hotkeys and other features that would help improve workflow. But boy do I enjoy hearing my music played back with those sounds. It’s not perfect (brass are still
> One dimensional but I’m a brass player so I’m picky) but I see updates every other day for the muse sounds. It’s a very promising start.


I will be glad to revisit it in the future, but Dorico has also put a big focus on playback and some of the renderings I've heard from it are incredible. Though, they do require more effort than what Musescore seems to do out of the box.


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## dcoscina

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I will be glad to revisit it in the future, but Dorico has also put a big focus on playback and some of the renderings I've heard from it are incredible. Though, they do require more effort than what Musescore seems to do out of the box.


I won’t disagree and Dorico’s handling of VST is miles ahead as well. I’ve been immersed in MS4 for the last couple months and it’s been a very good experience though I am eager to hear NP4 when it’s released since I use NP3 with Dorico mostly. My composing computer has very modest specs so I cannot use something like BBCSO pro with Dorico


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## Jett Hitt

dcoscina said:


> My composing computer has very modest specs so I cannot use something like BBCSO pro with Dorico


I found it to be less than a special experience.


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