# Analysing Strawberry Fields Forever using “Verta style”



## PeterN (Dec 30, 2018)

After watching 8hrs Mike Verta on youtube over past two days or so, its time to mimic and try out the “Verta method” on, why not some good old pop music: Beatles. 





Theres no way the human brain can deal with the intro, theres no simple pattern.

The first verse is a whole new piece, and you had not earned that yet.

Theres a diminished chord in the first verse and its impossible to find any simple structure in the verse.

The electric guitar is playing a pattern that keeps changing and is not coherent.

The chorus comes too soon and it was not earned yet.

Theres a bridge immediately after first chorus and all one thinks is “hey, hold on”. Its not even the same piece.

Second verse is too different from first and there are completely new chords.

Trumpets cant be heard loud enough.

Indian instrument has nothing to so there. It may sound cool, but for the human brain thats from another dimension.

3rd verse just a mess.

The drums are also helping creating a mess of it all.

2nd bridge works first but when you change the trumpets to the cello its a completely new piece. And better get rid of that fluttering noise.

4th verse strings doing staccato and its not same string pattern, brain cannot lock to it.

The end is a total mess, like another song, abstract and even out of rhythm.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 30, 2018)

When you're the Beatles you can do whatever you want, and it will always sound amazing.


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## bryla (Dec 30, 2018)

So after finding all these flaws ask yourself: why did they do it and why did it work?

You could find as least as many things about Bohemian Rhapsody and you'll still be left with the above questions.


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## bryla (Dec 30, 2018)

This also has a diminished chord in the verse. Don't know why that's an issue.


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## PeterN (Dec 30, 2018)

Mike Fox said:


> When you're the Beatles you can do whatever you want, and it will always sound amazing.



Doesnt have to be Beatles, or even music. It can be applied to art in general. We could try e.g. Pablo Picasso.







Our brain cannot lock onto the face of the painting.
Hair is falling only on left side, its not following structure.
Theres no structural pattern on chest that we can clearly recognize.
The painting is called “green woman” but theres clearly some red there.
Right side hand is a total chunk and doesnt even belong there. Its from another painting.


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## gregh (Dec 30, 2018)

Agree re The Beatles PeterN - I think there are some nice bits here and there but clearly no commercial potential. Need to work on their songwriting some more, develop their craft, before I'd invest any money in promotion. Are they any good live?


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## ism (Dec 30, 2018)

In fairness, if the Beatles weren't famous when they released that track, and everyone wasn't already listening to Sgt Pepper, radio wouldn't have given them the time of day, and could easily have flopped, for all its brilliance.


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## lumcas (Dec 30, 2018)

ism said:


> In fairness, if the Beatles weren't famous when they released that track, and everyone wasn't already listening to Sgt Pepper, radio wouldn't have given them the time of day, and could easily have flopped, for all its brilliance.



Oh, all those ifs and buts....

you're right.


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## Bansaw (Dec 30, 2018)

When the Beatles were _getting _famous they were preoccupied with making songs that would "work".

When they reached a level of fame they were happy with, they didn't care, and that afforded them the freedom to be pretentious. _(pretentious - the opportunity to express your musical ability in radically creative ways ; ) ) _


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## germancomponist (Dec 30, 2018)

Yeah, it is more than 3 chords. Do u have a problem with this? I like and love this and so many other songs from the Beatles, what are not "normally" composed, written and arranged.


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## Kony (Dec 30, 2018)

PeterN said:


> After watching 8hrs Mike Verta on youtube over past two days or so, its time to mimic and try out the “Verta method” on, why not some good old pop music: Beatles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Have you heard of LSD...?


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## germancomponist (Dec 30, 2018)

Kony said:


> Have you heard of LSD...?


Can you explain this comment to me?


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## Kony (Dec 30, 2018)

germancomponist said:


> Can you explain this comment to me?


Sure....


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## germancomponist (Dec 30, 2018)

Kony said:


> Sure....


Sorry, this answer is bullshit. So what did you mean when you posted "LSD"?


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## Kony (Dec 30, 2018)

@germancomponist are you seriously saying you've never heard of LSD before? I'm not interested in a flame-war btw - so if you can't work out how to Google LSD, I can't help you. Thanks and bye!


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## HelixK (Dec 30, 2018)

You are overthinking what it means to be in a band like the Beatles. They don't care about any of that. 

Have some beers, pick an instrument and go jam with your friends, then maybe you will get it


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## Gingerbread (Dec 30, 2018)

It's almost as if the rules of proper orchestral composition and form don't apply to experimental psychedelic pop songs. Huh!


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## germancomponist (Dec 30, 2018)

Kony said:


> @germancomponist are you seriously saying you've never heard of LSD before? I'm not interested in a flame-war btw - so if you can't work out how to Google LSD, I can't help you. Thanks and bye!


All what I am saying is that you are telling bullshit! If you have a problem with music what uses more than 3 chords etc., then tis is your problem and also underlines that you have not understood their music.


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## Kony (Dec 31, 2018)

germancomponist said:


> All what I am saying is that you are telling bullshit! If you have a problem with music what uses more than 3 chords etc., then tis is your problem and also underlines that you have not understood their music.


Actually, your statement indicates that you haven't understood my post - and that you know absolutely nothing about The Beatles, since perhaps one of their best songs (and a favourite of mine) is only one chord and heavily influenced by LSD - I'll leave you to work out which one that is since you know so much about them.

I suggest that you don't try to put words into other people's mouths. Was there any reason why you thought I was being negative? The Beatles happen to be my favourite band.

Also, why so salty? I made a comment about LSD and you tried to pick an argument with me - you may not have noticed that my comment was directed at the OP. Perhaps you were trying to settle old scores from a previous debate which didn't go so well for you?

Oh, and by the way:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/...t-how-lsd-opened-the-door-to-revolver-251417/

You really take a strange position - the OP makes an analysis of Strawberry Fields Forever, I imply it should be judged in the context of LSD and psychedelia, and then you come along assigning negativity to my posts when clearly you had no clue what I was saying.

Don't bother responding to me - I have zero interest in what you have to say - and the only reason I replied here is because I took exception from your last comment implying that I don't like The Beatles, when I actually love them.

Edit:


germancomponist said:


> underlines that you have not understood their music


I strongly suggest you at least do some basic research before making assumptions about your own level of understanding of their music (before trying to lecture other people), such as this line from Wikipedia:

As with his Revolver compositions ... "Strawberry Fields Forever" was informed by Lennon's experiences with the hallucinogenic drug LSD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawberry_Fields_Forever


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## jules (Dec 31, 2018)

Kony said:


> I'll leave you to work out which one that is since you know so much about them.


Maybe tomorrow we'll know... Who knows ?  Anyway with its b-side this one is moebius's band, challenging any analysis. It's perfect as it is and further invstigation can only kill the magic.


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## Kony (Dec 31, 2018)

jules said:


> Maybe tomorrow we'll know... Who knows ?  Anyway with its b-side this one is moebius's band, challenging any analysis. It's perfect as it is and further invstigation can only kill the magic.


It would just be easier if we could turn off our minds, relax and float upstream....


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## blougui (Dec 31, 2018)

It's a joke, well done Peter, I sincerely enjoyed it  - May be you're having a laugh at M. Verta, this I can't tell,having not watched his course
It's what happens when critics or scholars (at least some of them)use their tools of the trade to dissect something that is out of their current patterns of analysis.

Listening to Strawberry fields once and then is goosebump guarantee as far as I'm concerned. I'm more a Macca guy than a Lennon but it's def one of my favorite 60s songs,not to say one of my whatever decades song. The intro is Maccas, I've heard recently.


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## Rob (Dec 31, 2018)

haha what a fool I am... I took it seriously...


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## Kony (Dec 31, 2018)

Rob said:


> haha what a fool I am...


You're not the fool on the hill by any chance...?  

I'll get my coat....


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## gussunkri (Dec 31, 2018)

PeterN said:


> After watching 8hrs Mike Verta on youtube over past two days or so, its time to mimic and try out the “Verta method” on, why not some good old pop music: Beatles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for the laugh!


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## re-peat (Dec 31, 2018)

Kony said:


> and float upstream....


It's _down stream_, not upstream.

_


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## Mike Fox (Dec 31, 2018)

Kony said:


> You're not the fool on the hill by any chance...?
> 
> I'll get my coat....


Don't forget to grab your hat. The bus leaves in seconds flat!


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## Leon Portelance (Dec 31, 2018)

My favorite song by by favorite band.


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 31, 2018)

What is this?

Pick a fight on the forum week? Why not just cut to the chase and make a "is mike verta overrated" thread. This is a very round about way of saying you disagree with verta - something you could have either a.) messaged him, or b.) waited to express your disagreement on the topic the next time it's actually brought up.


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## PeterN (Dec 31, 2018)

ProfoundSilence said:


> What is this?
> 
> Pick a fight on the forum week? Why not just cut to the chase and make a "is mike verta overrated" thread. This is a very round about way of saying you disagree with verta - something you could have either a.) messaged him, or b.) waited to express your disagreement on the topic the next time it's actually brought up.



Yea, but I love M Verta. And he is a real composer and artist (well, on my list). But the way he keeps dissing creativity should be common knowledge. Otherwise u are fooled. Up to u.

I could even ask rhetorically, who is more destructive, hz or mv. Anybody wanna pick on that?


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## PeterN (Jan 1, 2019)

Also, it must be said - and its fair to say - Vertas tutorial videos are very good. And nonetheless generous. Amazing guy. So much good could be said. Imagine Roger Federer giving out all his tennis quintessence in hours long videos for 20 bucks, theres a higher call in that. Verta will be rewarded in composers heaven - maybe by John Lennon dressed as a walrus.

But I have a problem with the creative side. How to adress this openly and being fair to Verta at same time? I used Strawberry Fields and Picasso as examples.

Not saying one (my) opinion matters so much, just one opinion and a shout from a distance. But couldnt keep it inside. Should I?


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## mverta (Jan 1, 2019)

This is really weird. I've always liked Strawberry Fields and it is well-constructed, just a-typical.  Maybe you should watch another 8 hours? Better yet, watch the 5th annual Unleashed on January 12th for more of my legendary analysis and humility. Oh, and Happy New Year!


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## dohm (Jan 1, 2019)

Having purchased and studied many Mike Verta master class videos, I can confidently say that Mike never spends time and energy dissing creativity. He does emphasize craft (and criticizes those without any). It is exactly what any good teacher, mentor, professor, or friend should do if they sincerely want to help someone progress in a skill or competitive career. I however, will happily diss the lack of creativity it takes to mock another (often more successful) person on social media (e.g., forum, youtube, etc.). I have been quietly reading VI forum for many years while trying to pursue my interests in composing, and over the past year more and more posts have turned to amateurism - making stabs at the pros, if you will, in an attempt to fee/look brilliant. It is a shame, and all it does is discourage a knowledgable person from contributing. In response to the OP's question, yes you should have kept it inside. 

Also...someone please shut up the cat.  Happy New Year!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 1, 2019)

Oh where is the comment by labornvain? I just wanted to answer..


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## labornvain (Jan 1, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Oh where is the comment by labornvain? I just wanted to answer..


I deleted it. I really try not to post angry.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 1, 2019)

labornvain said:


> I deleted it. I really try not to post angry.



yeah I read it, alright. lets stay relaxed.


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## labornvain (Jan 1, 2019)

PeterN said:


> Also, it must be said - and its fair to say - Vertas tutorial videos are very good. And nonetheless generous. Amazing guy. So much good could be said. Imagine Roger Federer giving out all his tennis quintessence in hours long videos for 20 bucks, theres a higher call in that. Verta will be rewarded in composers heaven - maybe by John Lennon dressed as a walrus.
> 
> But I have a problem with the creative side. How to adress this openly and being fair to Verta at same time? I used Strawberry Fields and Picasso as examples.
> 
> Not saying one (my) opinion matters so much, just one opinion and a shout from a distance. But couldnt keep it inside. Should I?



Dude, please. Use a snark tag next time. This music school dropout has been triggered.


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## PeterN (Jan 1, 2019)

Yea, it was the unleashed series. One video around 8hrs, and 2nd is 11+hrs and still struggling to finish it. Not the tutorials for sale.

I might be wrong, or lets say this way, there were cases where some guy improvised a bit out of ordinary, and he was immediately put back on safe track. Like a theology class - or communist indoctrination - where some guy dared to question dogmas, and was instantly put with a ping pong ball in the mouth, tied with leather belt, on some safe chair.

I fuckin liked when they (just a handful) started to bang it out of safe zone/ordinary, like Picasso did - James Joyce - Rimbaud - you name it. I think its an artistical, even philosophical, misconception, composers have to build on a _certain_ base. Psychologically too, I dare to question listeners are so dumb they need grand safe zone, before some spices added in the soup. And if they are, they deserve it right in the face. Like being thrown to downtown Calcutta from your Canadian safe zone frog well - you fuckin deserve it - this is what the real world looks like. The next big composer, I hope he/she breaks the whole school, like Jimi Hendrix did to the electric guitar.

Anyway thanks for reply, still a fan. Happy New Year.


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## PeterN (Jan 1, 2019)

That being said, has anyone put fire on a cello yet while some guy whos been trained since he was 4 years old is playing it in a perfect staccato.

Thats what we want now. Hear when he is struggling with his perfect staccato when the cello is on fire.


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## PeterN (Jan 1, 2019)

dohm said:


> making stabs at the pros....



Pro this or that. Look at that shite now overall, you got street musicians all around the world now much more pro and musically creative than the ”pro”. This is not hierarchical either, as if art was something according to the english class system. Fuck that. As if u are ”pro” when u are some fuckin manager with a tidy office and with some creativity class diploma on the wall. Or how to say, me, I dont believe in ”pro” anymore, or lost the respect, maybe.


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## ProfoundSilence (Jan 1, 2019)

Heres a protip.

Art is subjective. This goes both ways. Your cello fire is not art to me, so the idea that anything can be music in the first place is a first person perspective that most people do not share. And the subjectivity most people experience is a generic template when it comes to things they only absorb peripherally(like music)

most people share similar subjective experiences(our organism hasn't changed it's needs for atleast a few iterations) People have for a very long time had similar life styles around the world, where most were just get up, work(or hunt), try to survive, mate, die. It's not really a surprise that the average person doesn't appreciate music the way an artist appreciates music. The average person has similar subjective tastes in what music is pleasing to the next, so when you're creating music - a successful or (pro) composer is able to make something familiar and relatable enough to these peasants outside of our ivory tower - yet different enough to be interesting, while staying digestible.

these people are "experts" and "professionals" because they proved they could make it work for most people, not just pleasing whatever post modern artsy view of what music should be. HZ has very simple and predictable music - but he always manages to speak at a "3rd grade level" with it, which actually ends up being incredibly relatable to the listeners - and he is often times able to take that comfort and trust he earns to do something new and interesting to them, that they otherwise would have not enjoyed hearing.

Williams was a legend because he could do nearly anything he wanted musically, while making the listener comfortable with it - and making it memorable.

Your description of the flaming cello staccatos is no different than an artist removing a urinal from a stall and placing it into an art gallery. It's the kind of stuff professors get off to, but it's completely useless to society in every conceivable way. Some of us enjoy music because it is one of the best tools to communicate empathy that our species has, which goes against the idea of making a new noise for the sake of making a new noise.

"ive never heard of anyone hitting a half eaten bag of doritos with a dead cat in the back of a pickup truck on the freeway recorded with a laptop mic"

what kind of emotions would that envoke? Is your goal to make vibrations that reach people's ears? Or is your goal to make them feel something?


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## gregh (Jan 1, 2019)

PeterN said:


> Pro this or that. Look at that shite now overall, you got street musicians all around the world now much more pro and musically creative than the ”pro”. This is not hierarchical either, as if art was something according to the english class system. Fuck that. As if u are ”pro” when u are some fuckin manager with a tidy office and with some creativity class diploma on the wall. Or how to say, me, I dont believe in ”pro” anymore, or lost the respect, maybe.


I really liked you OP joke - I'm amazed anyone missed the humor or missed the point - such is life online ....
I like and admire a lot of musicians - some very "pro" - but I find it handy to differentiate between bespoke sorts of composers eg HZ or John Williams, whom I can admire in terms of professional skills but don't actually enjoy and can find their film scores way too intrusive and overtly manipulative - and composers like Liza Lim or Aaron Cassidy who are right out on the edge of what is being done now within the classical tradition and composers like Marcus Fjellstrom or Cristobal Tapia de Veer who are more interesting within a mainstream TV context as well as all the millions of other great musicians doing other things from other traditions.


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## gregh (Jan 1, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Heres a protip.
> 
> It's the kind of stuff professors get off to, but it's completely useless to society in every conceivable way.



that's some really defensive shit - still, what you don't know only makes you stronger, hey?


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## mverta (Jan 1, 2019)

Well this is the danger of taking things out of context. I teach, above all, control. Choice. Schoenberg was a master of tonal writing; he chose to pursue 12-tone. This is in stark contrast to a composer who writes 12-tone merely because he can't write anything else; can't write a catchy melody to save his ass. That's not choice, that's being limited by lack of skill. There's an audience for everything; that's not our problem. There will always be people who love whatever we do. But to bring any kind of stability to or have any say in the viability of our career, we need to be able to decide exactly how to play either to our audience, or perhaps another, better paying audience, if need be. With skill we have choice and control. 

It's probably no surprise that the simplest, most foundational control is also the hardest to master. So the sort of "let's learn to crawl before we run" approach is very much the spirit of the Unleashed classes; we all struggle with it. We can't write complex music if we can't even write the simplest, and the simplest is hard. We have plenty of work to do there. We just can't claim to paint only Picassos but be totally unable to muster a stick figure. In this light, Unleashed hammers home the basics - the raw skill of being able to predictably win over a room -and the more rooms the better. This is learnable, and as comforting as a warm blanket. It's nice to know we can get jobs, get the bills paid; connect with the everyman. Mastering that, it's the wondrous, limitless frontier of exploration we're better set to venture into, and bring our audience to. That's what the Masterclasses are for - building on and reinforcing the core skill set, but we never abandon the skill set. Like anything else, when we're in trouble we fall back on our training. If we cannot predictably connect with and orient our listeners, they will not be able to follow us into that limitless space. The Unleashed shows - for 5 years now - are aimed at giving us all a handful of parameters to consider to give us base control. Where we can, and should, go from there is the unique stuff of beauty that is music. One step at a time...


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## ProfoundSilence (Jan 1, 2019)

gregh said:


> that's some really defensive shit - still, what you don't know only makes you stronger, hey?



That's not defensive, it's just obvious. 

Light a cello on fire, try to play staccato ostinatos - record it. Now take a recording, ask people to take a second to listen to a short excerpt of your new piece, and record the results. They'll tell you to stick to your day job. Some professor with a posh accent will sip his tea, put his monocle to his ear and say "you can really feel the urgency in this piece". But if you get hired to compose music for something, then they are hiring someone who composes music, not a folley artist who takes their job too seriously.


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## PeterN (Jan 1, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Heres a protip.
> 
> Art is subjective. This goes both ways. Your cello fire is not art to me, so the idea that anything can be music in the first place is a first person perspective that most people do not share. And the subjectivity most people experience is a generic template when it comes to things they only absorb peripherally(like music)
> 
> ...



Seriously, ProfoundSilence. Your following this same pattern where the only two composers you mention are HZ and Williams. In a rant long as an essay. I dont know....has anyone proposed a ban for that yet. I dont know what would be a suitable punishment. Torture if that was allowed.


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## ProfoundSilence (Jan 1, 2019)

PeterN said:


> Seriously, ProfoundSilence. Your following this same pattern where the only two composers you mention are HZ and Williams. In a rant long as an essay. I dont know....has anyone proposed a ban for that yet. I dont know what would be a suitable punishment. Torture if that was allowed.


Referencing pop culture to make a reference? Considering this is borderline a call-out thread of another user, not sure waving the forum police down is your best choice of action. Next time I reference a composer to make a point, I'll be sure to use less household names like Jeff Kurtenacker, so I can say "well you know ____ by kurtenacker… ohh wait YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WHO HE IS???" and we can play the game of pretend we know about the other obscure composer that the other person is talking about.


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## PeterN (Jan 1, 2019)

mverta said:


> Well this is the danger of taking things out of context. I teach, above all, control. Choice. Schoenberg was a master of tonal writing; he chose to pursue 12-tone. This is in stark contrast to a composer who writes 12-tone merely because he can't write anything else; can't write a catchy melody to save his ass. That's not choice, that's being limited by lack of skill. There's an audience for everything; that's not our problem. There will always be people who love whatever we do. But to bring any kind of stability to or have any say in the viability of our career, we need to be able to decide exactly how to play either to our audience, or perhaps another, better paying audience, if need be. With skill we have choice and control.
> 
> It's probably no surprise that the simplest, most foundational control is also the hardest to master. So the sort of "let's learn to crawl before we run" approach is very much the spirit of the Unleashed classes; we all struggle with it. We can't write complex music if we can't even write the simplest, and the simplest is hard. We have plenty of work to do there. We just can't claim to paint only Picassos but be totally unable to muster a stick figure. In this light, Unleashed hammers home the basics - the raw skill of being able to predictably win over a room -and the more rooms the better. This is learnable, and as comforting as a warm blanket. It's nice to know we can get jobs, get the bills paid; connect with the everyman. Mastering that, it's the wondrous, limitless frontier of exploration we're better set to venture into, and bring our audience to. That's what the Masterclasses are for - building on and reinforcing the core skill set, but we never abandon the skill set. Like anything else, when we're in trouble we fall back on our training. If we cannot predictably connect with and orient our listeners, they will not be able to follow us into that limitless space. The Unleashed shows - for 5 years now - are aimed at giving us all a handful of parameters to consider to give us base control. Where we can, and should, go from there is the unique stuff of beauty that is music. One step at a time...



Hey thanks for the follow up Mike, and I apologize pushing it to the point where u need to explain that much in writing. Its more a rant on my side. I do see it all, however,.........

Well, I might just as well leave it here, bcs point is made by now. Some people have talent way beyond the one two three four, they are years beyond that, and some have the potential, and the courage to explore, and I cant stand to see this put down to a basic omelet, where even white pepper is risky. There used to be great food in Burma - a symphony of taste - but when the tourists arrived, theres no taste in the food anymore, bcs it all had to be so fuckin flat nobody complained.


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## MaxOctane (Jan 1, 2019)

Sometimes this forum confuses me.

I thought the original post was a lighthearted joke. Then people got upset. Then people got philosophical. Then maybe it wasn't a joke. Now I don't even know what we're talking about.


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## PeterN (Jan 1, 2019)

MaxOctane said:


> Sometimes this forum confuses me.
> 
> I thought the original post was a lighthearted joke. Then people got upset. Then people got philosophical. Then maybe it wasn't a joke. Now I don't even know what we're talking about.



Burmese food. It was flattened to the point where even garlic was risky. All chilli banned. The ”pro” chefs took over the concept.

Now if u want the real stuff u need to find it on the hidden alleys.


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## PeterN (Jan 2, 2019)

Still pushing that, many years ago, was in London, there was this restaurant where no salt was allowed over a certain limit. Food was celiac suitable, low gluten, low cholesterol, sugar free, fuckin lactose intolerant suitable.

Thats what its all becoming now.

Why is it like that, its another thread.

Dear friends, rebel.


——-

Fundraiser: Tina Guos cello set on fire while shes playing it.


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## gregh (Jan 2, 2019)

PeterN said:


> Still pushing that, many years ago, was in London, there was this restaurant where no salt was allowed over a certain limit. Food was celiac suitable, low gluten, low cholesterol, sugar free, fuckin lactose intolerant suitable.
> 
> Thats what its all becoming now.
> 
> ...


too far PeterN - diversity in restaurants is a great thing. But I do get your point - under a market system that is primed with unequal distributions the dynamics almost inevitably lead to a winner takes all system - in the case of Burma the unequal wealth between tourists and restaurants leads to the tourists "winning", where the taste of tourists drives the meals to be the intersection of all possible meal purchase decisions ie least offensive to the most diners. The only chefs who can resist that are people who do not need the mass tourist dollar, by either having a niche tourist market or by not even addressing the tourist market at all. Same dynamic plays out in the West - food in the tourist areas of Paris is shit.


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## PeterN (Jan 2, 2019)

gregh said:


> too far PeterN - diversity in restaurants is a great thing. But I do get your point - under a market system that is primed with unequal distributions the dynamics almost inevitably lead to a winner takes all system - in the case of Burma the unequal wealth between tourists and restaurants leads to the tourists "winning", where the taste of tourists drives the meals to be the intersection of all possible meal purchase decisions ie least offensive to the most diners. The only chefs who can resist that are people who do not need the mass tourist dollar, by either having a niche tourist market or by not even addressing the tourist market at all. Same dynamic plays out in the West - food in the tourist areas of Paris is shit.



(Sorry had to change my avatar again, theres no statement in it, previous was too blue and couldnt locate myself, blue everywhere).


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## Wally Garten (Jan 2, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Next time I reference a composer to make a point, I'll be sure to use less household names like Jeff Kurtenacker, so I can say "well you know ____ by kurtenacker… ohh wait YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WHO HE IS???" and we can play the game of pretend we know about the other obscure composer that the other person is talking about.



To whomever it may concern in this thread,

If you ever really need to get into one-upsmanship on an online music forum, I'd like to humbly volunteer myself as an _extremely_ obscure composer you could refer to. I haven't set any instruments on fire yet, but I am certainly willing to if that would help somebody's argument.


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## MartinH. (Jan 2, 2019)

PeterN said:


> After watching 8hrs Mike Verta on youtube over past two days or so, its time to mimic and try out the “Verta method” on, why not some good old pop music: Beatles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The irony in your post isn't entirely lost on me, but as someone who never heard that song before (at least not that I remember), I felt pretty much exactly like you described it...





PeterN said:


> in London, there was this restaurant where no salt was allowed over a certain limit.



[edit: link removed because Greg thinks it's "dangerous pseudo-science commentary"]


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## studiostuff (Jan 2, 2019)

Never heard Strawberry Fields before...??? Wow!


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## PeterN (Jan 2, 2019)

studiostuff said:


> Never heard Strawberry Fields before...??? Wow!



This is apparently the point where we are at. Is anybody wondering why theres just three chords stuff coming out these days. The creative guy comes up with four:

Am - F - C - G

Just fuckin wow.

Put a choir behind that and it shines for miles.


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## MartinH. (Jan 2, 2019)

studiostuff said:


> Never heard Strawberry Fields before...??? Wow!



I know tons of more or less obscure Metal bands and a fair few from various electronica genres, but I have huuuge blind spots in my knowledge of "popular" bands. I just never was exposed to that kind of music and don't enjoy it. My parents mostly listened to classical music and pretty much everyone I grew up with mostly listened to Metal and closely related genres after they got out of their 90's techno phase.




PeterN said:


> This is apparently the point where we are at. Is anybody wondering why theres just three chords stuff coming out these days. The creative guy comes up with four:
> 
> Am - F - C - G
> 
> Just fuckin wow.



Not sure I deserved that hostile remark...


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## PeterN (Jan 2, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> I know tons of more or less obscure Metal bands and a fair few from various electronica genres, but I have huuuge blind spots in my knowledge of "popular" bands. I just never was exposed to that kind of music and don't enjoy it. My parents mostly listened to classical music and pretty much everyone I grew up with mostly listened to Metal and closely related genres after they got out of their 90's techno phase.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Its cool, mate. Its not really on you, its sort of in general. Im pissed off I couldnt find anything on youtube last two days or so that could give some satisfaction. Hoziers church passed it, but ten times in a row, and it was like a bubble gum loosing flavor. Have you heard that, an old man singing ”I cant get no, satisfaction”, its back in those old days too.

Anyway, Im getting tired of my rant, you cant rant 24hrs in prophetic inspiration.

I give you credit for recognizing the ”Verta method” I tried to apply, suited your impression of that kind of weird song. Strange name too, strawberry fields forever.

Take it easy friend.


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## Mike Fox (Jan 2, 2019)

PeterN said:


> Its cool, mate. Its not really on you, its sort of in general. Im pissed off I couldnt find anything on youtube last two days or so that could give some satisfaction. Hoziers church passed it, but ten times in a row, and it was like a bubble gum loosing flavor. Have you heard that, an old man singing ”I cant get no, satisfaction”, its back in those old days too.
> 
> Anyway, Im getting tired of my rant, you cant rant 24hrs in prophetic inspiration.
> 
> ...


If this doesn't offer you any satisfaction, I don't know what will.


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## PeterN (Jan 2, 2019)

Mike Fox said:


> If this doesn't offer you any satisfaction, I don't know what will.




Its good. Hope they still develop. If they have the ability, i.e. mainly break the patterns in chord progresssions even more. But have some map under it. Bit like Nirvana but further. Thanks for this.


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## NoamL (Jan 2, 2019)

mverta said:


> 5th annual Unleashed on January 12th!



AWESOME


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## Mike Fox (Jan 2, 2019)

NoamL said:


> AWESOME


Right?! Can't wait! 

Mike is beyond generous to donate 12+ hours of expert advise. The man is a machine!


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## Mike Fox (Jan 2, 2019)

PeterN said:


> Its good. Hope they still develop. If they have the ability, i.e. mainly break the patterns in chord progresssions even more. But have some map under it. Bit like Nirvana but further. Thanks for this.


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## gregh (Jan 2, 2019)

MartinH. said:


>




dangerous pseudo-science commentary


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## germancomponist (Jan 2, 2019)

Kony said:


> Actually, your statement indicates that you haven't understood my post - and that you know absolutely nothing about The Beatles, since perhaps one of their best songs (and a favourite of mine) is only one chord and heavily influenced by LSD - I'll leave you to work out which one that is since you know so much about them.
> 
> I suggest that you don't try to put words into other people's mouths. Was there any reason why you thought I was being negative? The Beatles happen to be my favourite band.
> 
> ...



Sorry, I read your post wrong because I hate it when people say: "Ah yeah, the Beatles with their LSD consumption ...
But, some years ago I talked with Ringo about LSD and he said: "Did you know, how much my coffee consumption influenced my drumming on the Beatles Albums?


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## Kony (Jan 2, 2019)

germancomponist said:


> Sorry, I read your post wrong because I hate it when people say: "Ah yeah, the Beatles with their LSD consumption ...
> But, some years ago I talked with Ringo about LSD and he said: "Did you know, how much my coffee consumption influenced my drumming on the Beatles Albums?


No problem - and thanks for that. I don't think LSD or pot was a bad influence on them


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## PeterN (Jan 4, 2019)

I probably owe M Verta an apology, bcs now the 11hrs (+8h) are almost done and I have enjoyed it thoroughly! The unleashed series. (Or Im compromising, to be more accurate, bcs someone sitting 11hrs giving feedback, how can anyone criticise that.)

Around 6hrs theres this guy with amazing samples, orchestration and whatnot, and Mikes harsh criticism is so spot on that its like a catharsis to see it.

Thanks! And nonetheless,...for the idea and generosity to have this online.


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## PeterN (Jan 4, 2019)

But cant help me wonder if this is how people compose nowadays, they choose Elfman, Williams, Horner or who the f else, and start to copy.

Theres like 20hrs stuff of unleashed on youtube and Verta immediately realizes ”oh, you tried to copy Goldsmith, but....”.

Its like a tragic state of the art. And then encouraged to steal. How do u guys dare to share your music, when stealing is encouraged? Thats the main reason I dont share mine, EVER, without having it 101% secured now, theres like thousand hungry wolves now ready to grab anything. Imagine McCartney throwing out Yesterday on soundcloud now, I mean, he didnt steal that, he fuckin did it. Would be ripped off in seconds maybe.


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## Crowe (Jan 4, 2019)

PeterN said:


> But cant help me wonder if this is how people compose nowadays, they choose Elfman, Williams, Horner or who the f else, and start to copy.
> 
> Theres like 20hrs stuff of unleashed on youtube and Verta immediately realizes ”oh, you tried to copy Goldsmith, but....”.
> 
> Its like a tragic state of the art. And then encouraged to steal. How do u guys dare to share your music, when stealing is encouraged? Thats the main reason I dont share mine, EVER, without having it 101% secured now, theres like thousand hungry wolves now ready to grab anything. Imagine McCartney throwing out Yesterday on soundcloud now, I mean, he didnt steal that, he fuckin did it. Would be ripped off in seconds maybe.



Stealing is not encouraged, assimilation of styles and ideas however, is. Mike says it in his videos as well, learning the techniques and styles is important. But don't straight up copy.

Actual stealing and ripping-off other people and products is sadly the state our internet-fueled post-capitalistic system has now landed on. It's easy to make a quick buck by being unoriginal. Hell, I'm mostly into game-design and it's basically universally accepted that if you start marketing your game while it's in development, some Chinese company will have a working rip-off in a week or two, before you're anywhere near ready to launch.

Actual 'artists' don't do this. Garbage people however, do.

Perspective is important.

I carry on, content in the knowledge that we're moving towards a collapse and actual artistry is likely going to become extremely important in a year or twenty.


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## whiskers (Jan 4, 2019)

PeterN said:


> But cant help me wonder if this is how people compose nowadays, they choose Elfman, Williams, Horner or who the f else, and start to copy.
> 
> Theres like 20hrs stuff of unleashed on youtube and Verta immediately realizes ”oh, you tried to copy Goldsmith, but....”.
> 
> Its like a tragic state of the art. And then encouraged to steal. How do u guys dare to share your music, when stealing is encouraged? Thats the main reason I dont share mine, EVER, without having it 101% secured now, theres like thousand hungry wolves now ready to grab anything. Imagine McCartney throwing out Yesterday on soundcloud now, I mean, he didnt steal that, he fuckin did it. Would be ripped off in seconds maybe.


you seem like fun, lol.

I imagine most people share, because:

1. They're proud of their work and want to release it
2. A key point of art was meant to be shared and enjoyed by others


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## PeterN (Jan 4, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> Stealing is not encouraged, assimilation of styles and ideas however, is.



You probably have many interesting points in your post, but not to blurr it too much, I just pick on the one that I brought up.

See, I figure MV is one of the leading influences now (at least on Internet) for composers into orchestration, and me got about 12 of his classes, and theres the stealing encouraged by using exactly that word in at least two of them. I can see the context, and get the point, but I figure thats maybe the way MV started composing, and all his major influences picked from some other guys. But, to still play the Beatles card here:

Where the f did McCartney steal ”Yesterday” from and where did Lennon steal ”Strawberry Fields” from? Id be curious the hear that.


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## PeterN (Jan 4, 2019)

whiskers said:


> you seem like fun, lol.
> 
> I imagine most people share, because:
> 
> ...



Yea, well just from a personal point, if I (personally) did the 4 chords epic shit id had no problem sharing it either. No matter which fuckin choir I blurred behind it.


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## Crowe (Jan 4, 2019)

PeterN said:


> Where the f did McCartney steal ”Yesterday” from and where did Lennon steal ”Strawberry Fields” from? Id be curious the hear that.



It's well known the Beatles were inspired by artists like Elvis, Cliff Richard and Chuck Berry. So...

EDIT: And I'm not saying they outright stole from their inspirations. But they sure as hell assimilated.


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## PeterN (Jan 4, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> It's well known the Beatles were inspired by artists like Elvis, Cliff Richard and Chuck Berry. So...



Oh, f that. Making all creativity just to something you pretty much stole or copied.

Thats so offensive, this is the first time Im offended on VI. Not even the communists in the political section managed to do that.

Edit. Sorry. I got the point after a few breaths. Yes, u are right to some degree. Early Beatles in particular.


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## Crowe (Jan 4, 2019)

PeterN said:


> Oh, f that. Making all creativity just to something you pretty much stole or copied.
> 
> Thats so offensive, this is the first time Im offended on VI. Not even the communists in the political section managed to do that.



Erh. You utterly misunderstand what it means to assimilate ideas into your repertoire as an artist.

You know. Humans are utterly incapable to have truly original ideas out of nowhere. The person who invented the wheel likely only did so because he saw something round rolling and was inspired to create a wheel.

I'm not sorry if this offends your sensibilities, because quite frankly, they are unrealistic.


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## PeterN (Jan 4, 2019)

But its a close call. 

I will take a break due to something offensive. Give him a ban for that Mike Greene, for the sake of creativity! At least a year!

Heh. Joking.

Take it easy. But Im off, really.


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## PeterN (Jan 4, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> Erh. You utterly misunderstand what it means to assimilate ideas into your repertoire as an artist.
> 
> You know. Humans are utterly incapable to have truly original ideas out of nowhere. The person who invented the wheel likely only did so because he saw something round rolling and was inspired to create a wheel.
> 
> I'm not sorry if this offends your sensibilities, because quite frankly, they are unrealistic.



Yea, we know that, but theres still more to creativity. F*ck this sounds like high school. 

Bye


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## Crowe (Jan 4, 2019)

PeterN said:


> But its a close call.
> 
> I will take a break due to something offensive. Give him a ban for that Mike Greene, for the sake of creativity! At least a year!
> 
> ...



Get yourself a drink mate. Weekend is upon us .


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