# Should I switch daws? 5 years experince with FL Studio.



## HREQ (Jul 7, 2017)

Hey,

I've been thinking about this for a long time now. I like FL Studio, but it often gets "cluttered" or "confusing", and I'm not sure if that's cause I suck at organizing my projects or not. I often forget what is router where, and which tracks,patterns,and playlist tracks are which.
I want a simple layout like a traditional daw, for this reason I usually just compose in FLS "insert plugin menu" with one pattern clip, and using one playlist track. This is the only way everything is laid out neat for me.

I'm mainly only thinking of switching to Cubase. Has anybody who used FLS for a long time, who switched to Cubase, tell me how they like it?

The reasons for wanting to move to Cubase are:

Cubase: One Track = all the midi on the track IS that tracks midi instrument.
vs
FL: One plugin insert's midi, placed in a pattern clip, dropped to a random track on the playlist

(really straight forward easy organization)

Cubase: Chord Tracks / Chord Pads
vs
Fl Studio: Piano roll Chord Menu

(the chord tracks / chord pad combo, seem really easy to work with, and keep track of chords)

Cubase: Disable tracks
vs
Fl studio: no such thing

(this is the main feature)

Now, if FL studio had "Disable track" feature, to create big templats with, I'd probably not even think of moving. That's probably the main reason I want to switch, the others are just bonus. I spend most of my time in FLS inserting plugins, and routing them to mixer channels, and sellecting the patches. Having it all setup seems like a dream for a composer, like a workstation. Is there anyway to do this in FLS?


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## paulmatthew (Jul 8, 2017)

Aside from Cubase , I would suggest looking at Studio One as well. Maybe even Reaper too . I'm in the process of switching from Ableton to Studio One or Cubase based on features and performance . The learning curve hasn't been too bad so far , but I feel Cubase has the bigger learning curve of the two. I'm. I think each has demos that you can try to see which one would suit your needs better .


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## kitekrazy (Jul 9, 2017)

I suggest Reaper. Just like FL it's always being developed. It also has flexible licensing like FL. While FL has lifetime upgrades you wait a while before paying for a Reaper upgrade.


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## Allegro (Jul 9, 2017)

8 years ago, I started using FL studio for the first time. I do multiple genres from EDM to orchestral mockups. So switching from FL to Cubase a couple years back was the right move for me. My learning and transitional period however was not as smooth.

Things I sill miss in Cubase 9 from FL: Automation Clips, automation curves, qwerty piano keyboard layout, simple one shot loop browser. The rack browser we have right now in Cubase is just not on par. It's slow responding and you have to go back to browser root folders etc. You might also miss simple things like a drum sequencer, easier scrolling in arrangement window, quick startup and some simpler methods of doing the same thing.

I am a fan of Midi in Cubase compared to FL. Everything else feels like an upgrade in Cubase, especially mixing, template setup and and multi track recording. That whole "clip" and pattern problem in FL you speak of will be taken care of just fine in Cubase or most other major daws.

I'd spend a lot of time, eg. a month (exploring all daw options), trying demos and then make the final switch.

I hope that helps.


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## MChangoM (Jul 14, 2017)

paulmatthew said:


> I'm in the process of switching from Ableton to Studio One or Cubase based on features and performance .



@paulmathhew: May I ask why you are moving from Ableton Live? I have been happily composing with it for six years (a lite version came with my keyboard). What "features and performance" do you think I might gain from the DAWs you are auditioning? Do they have the equivalent of Session View, an essential part of my work flow? I've always felt I'd know when I had outgrown Live, but I struggle far more with my creativity than with any limitations in Live. 

I see so few members here using and recommending Live that I often wonder what I might be missing. I would not mind learning a new DAW; often this kind of disruption for me is positive. For example, I recently got a new camera that was different enough from my old one that it made me revisit the fundamentals of composition, exposure, focus, etc. Working through the new controls inspired me to reframe my approach and up my game. Any one think I am a candidate for a new DAW? Or if it ain't broke ......


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## paulmatthew (Jul 15, 2017)

I like working in Ableton but I can no longer deal with how long it takes to load up . Just opening it can take upwards of 5 minutes with no project loaded . Load a project , that's another 5 minutes or more. I've been dealing with that for over 1 1/2 years now and I've had it . On top of that , Live crashes , takes forever to open sample folders , etc. Uninstalled and reinstalled countless times and it's always the same thing . I have Studio One and Cubase on my workstation and they load up in under in a minute and have yet to have a crash from either one. I'm ready to just start using one of these 2 exclusively . I think it's fine time to switch .


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## MChangoM (Jul 15, 2017)

Thanks, paulmatthew. Performance problems are not an issue for me at all. Live takes about 6 seconds to load on my PC. I just loaded a project with 2 Kontakt tracks and 3 audio tracks which took about 9 seconds. But I have a pretty beefy system that I use for VFX/Compositing. 

I have been deferring thinking about this decision for a few years since I figured incorrectly that Live 10 was imminent. Any day now


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## paulmatthew (Jul 15, 2017)

Don't get me wrong , I love Ableton and have some larger projects that run fine and efficiently via CPU and ram (once loaded) , but the load times are just too much . The workflow is great and easy to use . I'm on Mac and have read that others on Mac encounter the same issues too. I can force quit it 4-5 times then voila it will open up in seconds . It's very random and drives me nuts . I'm probably going to build a PC workstation soon so I may stick with Live after that but Studio One and Cubase have some great features that Live doesn't .


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## MChangoM (Jul 15, 2017)

Thanks. Can you give me an idea of what those great features might be? Is there the equivalent of session view or something even better for letting the creative juices flow?


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## nas (Jul 15, 2017)

There are various reasons one can decide to switch to a new DAW, but I think the most important aspects to consider are workflow, stability, and features you really_ need. _With the exception of stability, the other aspects probably come down more to your own personal preference.

Sometimes switching DAW's can be frustrating and time-consuming because you're so used to doing things in a particular way and also muscle memory and key commands are very entrenched in your workflow, but if you feel the need to seek an alternative, the DAW's you mentioned are solid products from reliable companies. The best thing is to really try to get some good hands on experience and see for yourself which DAW gels with you and "gets out of the way" of your creativity.


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## IoannisGutevas (Jul 15, 2017)

I suggest Studio One also. It has a 30 days trial, you should try it. Its workflow is just amazing. Easy, intuitive and fast


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## MChangoM (Jul 16, 2017)

IoannisGutevas said:


> I suggest Studio One also. It has a 30 days trial, you should try it. Its workflow is just amazing. Easy, intuitive and fast



Many thanks, @IoannisGutevas. I downloaded the demo of Studio One. Stayed up all night playing with it. Indeed very fast, intuitive, and powerful! I tried a bunch of the more advanced things I do in Live and all were easily discovered without having to refer to the manual. I'm sold - at least I will try this week to create a composition entirely in Studio One. Crossgrade price of US$299 seems reasonable. If I sell my Push 2, which has been gathering dust anyway, it will be a net gain (for more sample libraries!)


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## IoannisGutevas (Jul 16, 2017)

MChangoM said:


> Many thanks, @IoannisGutevas. I downloaded the demo of Studio One. Stayed up all night playing with it. Indeed very fast, intuitive, and powerful! I tried a bunch of the more advanced things I do in Live and all were easily discovered without having to refer to the manual. I'm sold - at least I will try this week to create a composition entirely in Studio One. Crossgrade price of US$299 seems reasonable. If I sell my Push 2, which has been gathering dust anyway, it will be a net gain (for more sample libraries!)



Glad i could help  I was a Cubase user for years, and i tried ableton live too. Last 2 years i think i have just fell in love with Studio One and never looked back. Also dont forget to download and use Studio One X. It takes the whole workflow and ease of Studio one to a whole other level: http://studioonex.narechk.net/index_en.html


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## paulmatthew (Jul 16, 2017)

MChangoM said:


> Thanks. Can you give me an idea of what those great features might be? Is there the equivalent of session view or something even better for letting the creative juices flow?


The multi instrument feature in Studio One is awesome. You can load multiple vst synths in one go and set keyzones for each very easily to layer synths in one patch versus 3 - 4 instances. It's a very straight forward DAW and very easy to work with coming from Ableton . 

Also in Cubase , here is a video Daniel James did showing why he prefers Cubase to Ableton now. I , for one , Like the midi compression feature which , as he says , would take forever to do manually in Live. There are many DAWs out there but finding the right one that suits your needs is the one that you should probably be using. I'm leaning more toward Studio One at the moment.


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## MChangoM (Jul 16, 2017)

paulmatthew said:


> I'm leaning more toward Studio One at the moment.



I've been having a blast with the loop recording/takes/layers/comping in Studio One. I doubt I will ever open Ableton Live again. Reality may dampen my enthusiasm if I end up trading one set of problems for another, but I feel optimistic. An intermittent problem I have had for years that I blamed on something flaky in my MIDI controller has disappeared when using Studio One.


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## paulmatthew (Jul 16, 2017)

MChangoM said:


> I've been having a blast with the loop recording/takes/layers/comping in Studio One. I doubt I will ever open Ableton Live again. Reality may dampen my enthusiasm if I end up trading one set of problems for another, but I feel optimistic. An intermittent problem I have had for years that I blamed on something flaky in my MIDI controller has disappeared when using Studio One.


 Nice! I have also had issues with the mouse clicks in Ableton where it takes a slider to the max level just by clicking on it. It's something to do with an Absolute mouse mode bug . I'm then forced to either close and reopen or reenter an options.txt file into my sytem . I have not once encountered this in Cubase or Studio One.


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## Brian2112 (Jul 16, 2017)

Don't forget Sonar. Save a bundle file in Sonar and forget it. Everything will load up like you left it. 
I'm using Cubase now. Sonar has everything I wish Cubase had and Cubase has everything I wish Sonar had. Still prefer either to FL.


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## kitekrazy (Jul 17, 2017)

Since you have a lifetime license of FL Studio I would suggest to be involved in their forum and address areas you would like to see improvement. Most of what you cited are often the same concerns for other users. Their developers listen. It is often voted the most popular DAW and they want to hold on to that. Reaper is like that as well.


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## aumordia (Aug 2, 2017)

Everybody likes to say that you can do anything with any DAW. Sure, and you can walk from Texas to Canada, but it's more convenient to fly. So here's my impression of the DAW's I've now tried (on Windows FWIW), including the one's mentioned in this thread.

*FL Studio:* Reigns supreme at clicking-and-drawing in your music. I'm a guitarist, so that was initially all I could ever do with a weak computer in the 90's, hence I was drawn to it. It has only gone from strength to strength in this department. But recording has always been bad, whether audio or MIDI. I "grew up" alongside the development of FL's audio recording capabilities, and I wasn't about to throw down for a Pro Tools rig for a hobby, so FL's weird way of recording audio was all I ever knew, and I was never bothered by it.

Two things eventually happened that changed that. One, I learned piano, and discovered that FL is awful at recording MIDI as well -- it's jittery and finicky, and basic things like partial quantizing (extra necessary with poor MIDI jitter correction) and velocity compression are hidden behind modal dialogs. Lots of operations aren't available at all, like transposing multiple tracks at once. It's just not good, and it was never meant to be -- it's a pattern-based click-n-draw DAW first and foremost. A transpose feature was asked for 8 years ago -- the latest release of just yesterday didn't address this, but it did add a "picker panel" for easier pattern management. Which is completely pointless if all you want to do is record MIDI. Maybe one day this will get better, but I would not hold my breath.

The other big thing that happened is the switch to the vectorial UI engine. I first I was thrilled by this -- it's certainly easy on the eyes, easily the slickest looking DAW around -- but eventually I realized that it had imposed a terrible performance penalty. FL regularly needs 2-4x the buffer size necessary in other DAW's in order to prevent underruns. And if you record using the "Edison in a mixer paradigm," you HAVE to avoid underruns, or else they will be captured in the recorded audio. Recording audio is just a positively hair-raising experience every time.

The kicker is that, even as only an early-intermediate pianist, I have discovered that producing is much faster than click-n-draw. It's not even close -- like, 10x faster. If I have a melodic sketch of a song on the piano, and I can produce it in just a few minutes via recording, or half an hour to an hour (or more!) via click-n-draw. The difference is truly unbelievable.

Still, if you're going to click-n-draw, FL is the best. It also has the most advanced routing and automation capabilities of any DAW, along with the best bundled plugins and lifetime free updates. For some kinds of super-crazy electronic music these capabilities give it an edge. Its also just plain generous what you get when you buy. The Edison editor, for instance, has built-in spectral denoising licensed from Izotope -- AFAIK no other DAW includes this. It also runs in rewire or as a VST so you could keep it around as a giant modular-synth beast to do crazy sound design. I, however, have a baby and a job, so barring a miracle with FL 13, I don't see myself using it anymore.

*Ableton Live:* I think this is a lot of people's first DAW since the lite version ships free with so many audio interfaces, keyboards, etc. It's very streamlined and easy to learn if you're coming at electronic music production completely cold. It's also laser focused, which I personally find refreshing. But let's be honest. It's a DJ tool with an arranger tacked on as an afterthought. Ableton's entire focus as a company is on MAKIN' BEATS, just go to their website if you don't believe me. It's actually pretty good at capturing stuff, but pretty awful at editing and arranging it. So if you're planning to record, between Live and FL, it's a bit of a wash, but I'd ultimately give Live the edge, since recording frustrations are way more grating than arranging frustrations.

Nothing plays nicer with your consumer hardware controllers than Live, and of course its live performance capabilities (the session view) are industry leading. I hear some people use the session view as a composition tool as well (viz. MAKIN' BEATS) but that's lost on me. Live is also the best at working with loops, and I think its included FX are the best. Drum Racks are pleasure to work with, I'm amazed nothing else has ripped this off yet. Still, like FL, Live ultimately just isn't a "Real DAW" in a traditional sense -- if you're objective is to record and edit performances, it's workable, but honestly, from a MIDI perspective, there was better stuff around in the 80's. It's also really, really inefficient, and I have no idea why. I mean, it just beats your CPU with a lead pipe, it really just lays into it, it's horrifying.

*Cubase: *I never thought I'd become a Cubase user. I remember trying a demo a long time ago, and I gave up as soon as it opened -- it took so long to load, compared to FL's instantaneous startup time, that I couldn't bring myself to even contemplate trying it. However, of everything I've tried, Cubase is simply the most robust and complete package. All the performance, recording, editing problems I had with Ableton and FL disappeared. I was astounded. I was also overwhelmed. I had lucked into the Pro version for a couple hundred bucks, and it was just way, way too much. The manual is 1,300 pages, plus several hundred additional pages for the supplemental manuals that cover the included plugins. And you have to read this stuff. When Cubase was invented, the Berlin wall still stood -- it has accreted tons of stuff over the decades, and there's no way they can just re-invent everything to make it accessible to new users without screwing over the old timers (not to mention the development effort involved).

I actually ended up selling my Pro license and getting a basic license instead -- which I was able to wrap my head around. Cubase Pro is regularly lauded for being perhaps the most feature rich DAW on the planet, but even using my entry level version, I'm struck by just how rock solid it is at the basics: recording, editing, and arranging. NOTHING I have used records MIDI like Cubase. It's jitter correction is unparalleled, and everything Just Works. No mucking about with clips. No worry about playing a note before the loop point, or after the end, and winding up with missing notes, or notes that stretch on for bars and bars, or other weird crap. Quantizing is a single button push, no modal dialogs, and all the velocity manipulation capabilities you could ever need are right there in the editor, just drag the handles of the box around. This is another one of those things I'm amazed nobody else steals -- make recording and editing as solid and reliable as Cubase. I suspect there's a lot of sprezatura at play here, it must be very hard to make these things looks so easy.

That said, Cubase is simultaneously my favorite DAW and my most hated DAW. No other DAW is as peppered with WTF moments as Cubase. Their marketing department constantly recalls to mind that "Hello, fellow kids!" scene from 30 Rock. LoopMash? You have got to be kidding me. And the Chord Pads / Tracks are just about the goofiest things on the planet. Steinberg seems strangely devoted to these lost causes, like Halion, and I can't imagine why -- who knows, maybe they really are making money hand over first with that stuff, but to me it seems like nobody uses it (who wants to stick a workstation in side of their workstation?) and it distracts from cleaning up the cruft that their DAW has inevitably accumulated over the decades. But the bottom line is that truly, from a bread-and-butter recording and editing perspective, Cubase is the one to beat. It's sluggish and creaky and not fun at all, and yet, it lets you work incredibly quickly. I produce tracks easily ten times as fast just recording them with Cubase, rather than clicking them in with FL or smacking my pad controller around in Ableton -- my wife made me aware of this, I had never noticed before that I enjoyed working with FL/Ableton more, but spent way more time to get anything done. Cubase is about as fun as reading trade magazines in the dentist's office, but man oh man does it get results fast.

*Reaper and Studio One: *Yeah yeah, I'm lumping these together. Look, the bottom line is that these are the DAW's for the jilted producers out there. At some point, somebody gets sick of Cubase/Ableton/FL/Sonar/Whatever, and they wind up with Reaper or Studio One, and they just HAVE to tell you all about it. Studio One is fine as a cut down version of Cubase that doesn't record or edit MIDI as smoothly or reliably, and Reaper is a wonderful DAW development environment. The hype is absolutely out of control though. Culturally, Reaper reminds me of Linux, and Studio One of... BeOS? At any rate, it's offputting to say the least.

You can't even use VST's with Studio One unless you buy the Pro version. Alternatively, you can buy the Artist edition and then pay an $80 jizya to unlock VST's. Quite the innovation from PreSonus! Meanwhile, every time I've tried to use it, I've inevitably encountered weird crashes and glitches, and very bizarre performance problems. It seems like PreSonus just wants to make the ultimate DAW for selling customers additional digital trinkets. Every company is guilty of this to some extent (save for Cockos),but PreSonus really takes it to new heights.

Reaper is... look, it can get the job done, but so can carefully manipulating your hard drive with tiny magnets. I mean, I tried explaining "Jesusonic" to my wife, and I couldn't tell what horrified her more, the blasphemy or the nerdiness. Reaper might have a lot of great qualities going for it, but neurotypicality isn't one of them.


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## Sosimple88 (Aug 6, 2017)

IoannisGutevas said:


> Glad i could help  I was a Cubase user for years, and i tried ableton live too. Last 2 years i think i have just fell in love with Studio One and never looked back. Also dont forget to download and use Studio One X. It takes the whole workflow and ease of Studio one to a whole other level: http://studioonex.narechk.net/index_en.html


Thanks for the tip! I'm a very satisfied user of Studio One for years and will definitively check this out.


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## Quasar (Aug 6, 2017)

aumordia said:


> Reaper is... look, it can get the job done, but so can carefully manipulating your hard drive with tiny magnets. I mean, I tried explaining "Jesusonic" to my wife, and I couldn't tell what horrified her more, the blasphemy or the nerdiness. Reaper might have a lot of great qualities going for it, but neurotypicality isn't one of them.



This characterization is highly unfair. Reaper is _customizable_, which means you can set up pretty much any DAW environment you like. And though yes, the onus is on you to a certain extent to personalize it to your workflow, once you do this it is absolutely as neurotypical as any piece of software ever designed, and more so than most because it's now been tailored specifically to suit you.


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## aumordia (Aug 7, 2017)

What if I told you... I had better things to do with my time?


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## James Marshall (Aug 7, 2017)

aumordia said:


> *Reaper and Studio One: *Yeah yeah, I'm lumping these together. Look, the bottom line is that these are the DAW's for the jilted producers out there. At some point, somebody gets sick of Cubase/Ableton/FL/Sonar/Whatever, and they wind up with Reaper or Studio One, and they just HAVE to tell you all about it. Studio One is fine as a cut down version of Cubase that doesn't record or edit MIDI as smoothly or reliably, and Reaper is a wonderful DAW development environment. The hype is absolutely out of control though. Culturally, Reaper reminds me of Linux, and Studio One of... BeOS? At any rate, it's offputting to say the least.
> 
> You can't even use VST's with Studio One unless you buy the Pro version. Alternatively, you can buy the Artist edition and then pay an $80 jizya to unlock VST's. Quite the innovation from PreSonus! Meanwhile, every time I've tried to use it, I've inevitably encountered weird crashes and glitches, and very bizarre performance problems. It seems like PreSonus just wants to make the ultimate DAW for selling customers additional digital trinkets. Every company is guilty of this to some extent (save for Cockos),but PreSonus really takes it to new heights.
> 
> Reaper is... look, it can get the job done, but so can carefully manipulating your hard drive with tiny magnets. I mean, I tried explaining "Jesusonic" to my wife, and I couldn't tell what horrified her more, the blasphemy or the nerdiness. Reaper might have a lot of great qualities going for it, but neurotypicality isn't one of them.



I think this breakdown of DAWs is really unbalanced, and it does Studio One and Reaper a disservice, as both are excellent choices.


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## Publius (Aug 7, 2017)

I started out with fl studio in the 90s as well. Then I got a mac and got logic--seemed like a good deal at the time. Decided to move to windows based due to cost and elderly products in apple pro space, and lost the money I spent on logic. So, I did a fresh software eval process and settled on Cubase. Started with the cheapest one, but on pro now. Its disconcerting that pro has so much stuff, but you really only need to use what you want to, so extra stuff can be ignored.

Interesting comment about Halion being a lost cause--it looks like it might be a nice one-stop instrument with sampler and synths, but the price they want for the full version seems like they are way out of touch with the marketplace. Waves is selling their stuff at 80-90% off in a perma-sale, and I dont' think the marketplace is going to support the costs things once commanded. So I already have halion se with the Cubase product and they want $350 more for halion--a significant percentage of their Cubase product cost for a lot less functionality.

Anyhoo, the main reason fl studio did not survive the new selection process --despite me owning a lifetime license at a high functionality level--is that of recording audio. That whole opening Edison thing just never secured my confidence. Personally never completely warmed up to the whole pattern paradigm either. Having said that, I have seen folks who have really mastered fl studio do some incredible things with it. I am thinking of a guy called seamless who posts a ton of stuff on youtube.

I leaned toward pro tools, but I refuse to get involved in subscription based stuff and it looked like that was the only option they had a few months ago. I guess I am not the only one who feels that way as I saw a recent ad clearly stating that one of the options was a PERMANENT NON-EXPIRING license. Well, too little, too late for my purchase.

Ableton live is used by tons of edm type folks, and it seems like there are lots more educational videos for it, but have read its not the best at traditional recording, and I thought it was too expensive for what I was getting.

So, thus far no bug type problems with Cubase, and its working well enough for me. I will say their website could benefit a lot from some usability analysis--its maddening trying to find something at times, for instance the pdf product manuals--many many clicks and searching. I just noted that halion has a crossgrade price of $250 with proof of eligibility required. Thing is, I can't find out what qualifies for a crossgrade and what proof is required. Do they really want folks to have to email them just to get something that should be on the website front and center?


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## storyteller (Aug 7, 2017)

aumordia said:


> *Reaper and Studio One: *Yeah yeah, I'm lumping these together. Look, the bottom line is that these are the DAW's for the jilted producers out there. At some point, somebody gets sick of Cubase/Ableton/FL/Sonar/Whatever, and they wind up with Reaper or Studio One, and they just HAVE to tell you all about it. Studio One is fine as a cut down version of Cubase that doesn't record or edit MIDI as smoothly or reliably, and Reaper is a wonderful DAW development environment. The hype is absolutely out of control though. Culturally, Reaper reminds me of Linux, and Studio One of... BeOS? At any rate, it's offputting to say the least...
> 
> Reaper is... look, it can get the job done, but so can carefully manipulating your hard drive with tiny magnets. I mean, I tried explaining "Jesusonic" to my wife, and I couldn't tell what horrified her more, the blasphemy or the nerdiness. Reaper might have a lot of great qualities going for it, but neurotypicality isn't one of them.



I have to agree with @James Marshall and @Quasar on the unfairness of this statement... if (for nothing else) so that future people who may read this thread will not be swayed by one user's viewpoint. 

I think you'll find that every DAW has certain strengths - and, for that matter, certain limitations. Studio One is like the newcomer to the industry still gaining traction and building out features, whereas Reaper is a product that can do literally everything you throw at it. Does it take some customization? You bet! But for those that choose Reaper, time spent customizing your daw will reward a person exponentially more than other DAWs can provide. 

For me, I've used most DAWs - ProTools being the most heavily used last before my transition to Reaper. It took me creating somewhere in the neighborhood of 300+ custom scripts and actions to have a foundation in my Reaper Template that (I feel) exceeds every other DAW's unique top features and does things no other DAW can do. I've also made that available as a self-contained product to others who don't want to go through that creation process themselves. I'm not saying this to market that product, but rather to help bring clarity to this thread that Reaper is much more fully capable than it appears at face value. And, the cockos community is incredible at helping others with it. But it can _certainly_ be intimidating at first... 

DAWs are like cars - everyone has a preference and a comfort level with specific makes and models. I see Reaper sort of like a customized, military Humvee rather than a vehicle that can be purchased fully loaded out of the stock on a lot. Every DAW has its strengths, so my recommendation is to determine whether your "pain points" with your existing DAW can be remedied with another... and at what cost to other features you may rely upon. Then you can decide which vehicle you want to take on a joyride or take into battle. Hope this helps with some additional clarity and guidance!


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## tack (Aug 7, 2017)

I can appreciate those who just want to get straight to work with a great out-of-box experience, and especially for the audience reading this kind of forum, it's easy to see why Reaper might not leave a great first impression.

I'd go along with the comparison of Reaper with Linux, but not with BeOS (given that it's quite dead). There's a reason why Linux is on billions of devices and powers the vast majority of data centers around the globe, and it's not because it appeals to bit-fiddling nerds: it's because it's flexible, stable, scalable, powerful, and lower cost. There's a similar spirit in Reaper with these same qualities, and for those who want to customize the bejesus out of their workflow, you'll be hard pressed to do better than Reaper.

If you have better things to do with your time than beat Reaper into submission, I can definitely respect that, speaking as someone who knows exactly what it's like to beat Reaper into submission. But it's one thing to hold that position, and another thing entirely to encroach on the territory of belittling those who prioritize workflow and are willing to make the investment.


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## aumordia (Aug 7, 2017)

lollin' at the inevitable S1/Reaper whining, comeooooonnnnn

Anyway, I agree with Publius entirely. And the guy you're thinking of is "SeamlessR," he produces in his mom's basement and does some CRAZY things with FL:


All the dankest memes are produced in FL too:


And there's this guy named Blake who does orchestral type stuff in FL, but note the click-n-draw approach:


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## tack (Aug 7, 2017)

aumordia said:


> lollin' at the inevitable S1/Reaper whining, comeooooonnnnn


Yes, you would see dispassionate, reasoned dissent as whining, wouldn't you. Methinks you are exhibiting the very qualities you're accusing others of.


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## Quasar (Aug 7, 2017)

aumordia said:


> What if I told you... I had better things to do with my time?


If you told me that, I would likely suggest that you use that precious time to to do other than engage in gratuitous and unfair product bashing.


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## Publius (Aug 7, 2017)

As to seamlessr, I was wowed by Codename Hurricane.


Aside from the musical merits of this work, it certainly expanded my idea of what can be accomplished in fl studio. I think myself, and perhaps others, can easily get hung up on workstation 'limitations' involving features that didn't even exist a few years earlier. I keep reminding myself that the Beatles had 4 track recorders for most of their work, and in the early 70s for pop music of all sorts, mostly 8 track. You can either think a lot about what you don't have or concentrate on what building blocks you have.

As to reaper, certainly no shortage of enthusiastic product evangelists out there--year to year, forum to forum. To the extent that it provides an opportunity to learn a new scripting language or deep and wide customization palette, I would rather spend the money on something that is already where I need it to be, and I can adjust to its limitations. I only have so much intellectual bandwidth to learn new stuff, and for me there is music theory, virtual instruments, mixing, plug ins, and learning piano...

I have heard this advice from many, and would have benefitted more from it if I had believed it earlier: All the daw programs at this point are very functional, and the most productivity is gained by settling on one and mastering it. The new feature advantages see-saw among vendors depending on their release cycle. I have wasted a lot of time and money switching from one to the other over the years because I didn't want to miss out on the latest this or that, or work on a sub-optimal product. I have had at one time or another pro tools, sonar, reaper, logic, acid, fl studio, and a few I can't remember. I made a commitment to myself this year to settle on one and stop flitting from one fun new thing to another. For me its more fun to play with something new than mastering what I already have--but I decided to make results the higher priority--not what's the most fun t do.


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## aumordia (Aug 9, 2017)

Yeah I will never make a SeamlessR type track in my life, but his walkthroughs and tutorials really blew the lid off this whole synthesis and sound design thing for me. With modern tech we are quite literally spoiled for choice.

I do agree that trying to stick to one DAW and mastering it is more productive than constantly jumping around, however, the DAW's really do have significantly different strengths and weaknesses. For example, MIDI is terrible in FL, and it's quite clunky at recording -- if you mainly want to record stuff and then do some light editing, FL is a pretty baffling choice. Unfortunately, this is not easily inferred when you're new, which is why the kumbaya "you can do anything with anything" nonsense grinds my gears.

If you weigh the most salient characteristics of the main DAW's it breaks down like this:

*FL:*

PRO: Beastly at complex sound design, mixing, and arrangements, with excellent bundled plugs.
CON: Terrible at recording and editing, projects can get really hairy.
THE LEADER IN: Very complex electronic music production and sound design.

*Live:*

PRO: A kinder, gentler FL with more structure and unparalleled live performance capabilities; Max4Live unlocks loads of potential; great built-in help; decent recording.
CON: Editing is weak, and arranger is thoroughly anemic.
THE LEADER IN: Live performance.

*Cubase/Logic/DP: *

PRO: Versatile all rounders, great for recording, the best for editing MIDI (Cubase has an edge here); good bundled content (Logic plugs have the edge); strong arranging (Chunks give DP the edge).
CON: At times lumbering and inscrutable. RTFM is a necessary 1000+ page commitment. Complex mixing and automation is a pain.
THE LEADER IN: Recording and editing MIDI performances.
*
Reaper:**

PRO: Can do nearly anything with customization.
CON: Can do hardly anything without customization.
THE LEADER IN: DAW customization.
*
Studio One:**

PRO: It's not That Other DAW that you're pissed off at; streamlined, RTFM not really necessary.
CON: VST support costs extra; oddly inefficient and unstable for such new code; missing lots of useful functions from That Other DAW.
THE LEADER IN: Not being That Other DAW.
*Pro Tools:*

PRO: Fantastic audio recording, editing, and mixing.
CON: Everything else.
THE LEADER IN: Traditional multi-track audio production for people who actually make money at this stuff.
_
* If you can't detect the tongue-in-cheek you've spent too much time customizing your DAW and/or posting about it on forums._


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## James Marshall (Aug 9, 2017)

aumordia said:


> *Studio One:**
> 
> THE LEADER IN: Not being That Other DAW.



I think you need a job in the Presonus marketing department, that's a killer tagline for Studio One you've got there


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