# So long, and thanks for all the fish.



## wilifordmusic (Jan 8, 2022)

Those of you that get it.

If you don't, it's okay.

Too much drama and strife here for me.

bye, Steve


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## Trash Panda (Jan 8, 2022)




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## ism (Jan 8, 2022)

That’s really a pity. Best wishes.


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## Futchibon (Jan 8, 2022)

Come back after 'the Storm' perhaps? Nice piece!


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## alcorey (Jan 8, 2022)

Still plenty of GREAT folks here Steve.......Drama & Strife = Ignore button


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## Eloy (Jan 8, 2022)

The dolphins have left planet earth……………Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy.


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## TonalDynamics (Jan 8, 2022)

Lol, I just love these posts:

"Too much drama, later"

(While assuming their importance is so high that their own departure is such a worthy and tragic event that it deserves its own post)

Pure narcissism.

Honestly it's a forum, often filled with highly technical/niche information and a great reference for working composers/producers... how does one 'leave' it? It's a website, takes one click to 'enter' and one click to 'leave'.

Like seriously, just think about it for a second, the amount of effort it takes to 'come' or 'go' to/from a website is virtually zero, just one tier above a neurological impulse - barely harder than breathing and less difficult than tying your shoelaces...

Now, if we were all part of a commune on Madagascar, THAT would be a real dramatic exit. One less lookout to fend off the poisonous giant meat-eating lizards (NOT good).

But in cases like these, not really worth a post. Just talk or don't talk, figure out who you like and don't like, there's jerks and then there's lovely folks here just like in the rest of the wide world.

Incidentally I have 0 clue what said drama entailed, I just find it amusing when people complain about drama and then make a dramatic exit 

Cheers

P.S. The reference itself was solid, now that song is stuck in my head


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## alcorey (Jan 8, 2022)

Eloy said:


> The dolphins have left planet earth……………Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy.


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## chocobitz825 (Jan 8, 2022)

I just came for the fish….


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

wilifordmusic said:


> Those of you that get it.
> 
> If you don't, it's okay.
> 
> ...


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## dunamisstudio (Jan 8, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> What did I miss


Quick look at post history, seems more Spitfire drama.


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## Zedcars (Jan 8, 2022)

Ironically, posting about leaving would mean he’ll likely be popping back pretty frequently to check for new replies. 👋


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## rnb_2 (Jan 8, 2022)

And now I've got the song from the movie stuck in my head.


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## heisenberg (Jan 8, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> And now I've got the song from the movie stuck in my head.


Which song, which movie?!


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## alcorey (Jan 8, 2022)

heisenberg said:


> Which song, which movie?!


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## heisenberg (Jan 9, 2022)

Holy crap! That is an incredible piece of filmmaking. I obviously don't get out very much.


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## Geoff Grace (Jan 9, 2022)

Here it is:




…and don’t forget the prequel:




Best,

Geoff


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## heisenberg (Jan 9, 2022)

Thanks for clarifying Geoff!


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## Crowe (Jan 9, 2022)

Lol. This is one of the least drama-prone forums I've ever frequented. Do you know there's an ignore button? Or did the drama come from you?

Bye.


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## kgdrum (Jan 9, 2022)

The OP should spend some time @KVR………..


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## el-bo (Jan 9, 2022)

Crowe said:


> This is one of the least drama-prone forums I've ever frequented.


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## gamma-ut (Jan 9, 2022)

kgdrum said:


> The OP should spend some time @KVR………..


Now now, be nice.


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## Denix (Jan 9, 2022)

"Don´t Panic!"...


“If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.”
― Zaphod Beeblebrox


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## doctoremmet (Jan 9, 2022)

“In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move”.


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## Denix (Jan 9, 2022)

“For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen.”


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## devonmyles (Jan 9, 2022)

If anymore of you are stupidly thinking of leaving, just consider this:
"You're gonna need a bigger boat".


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## el-bo (Jan 9, 2022)

devonmyles said:


> If anymore of you are stupidly thinking of leaving...


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## chocobitz825 (Jan 9, 2022)

Obviously, the only solution here is to ban spitfire. Trouble makers 😅


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## MartinH. (Jan 9, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> Honestly it's a forum, often filled with highly technical/niche information and a great reference for working composers/producers... how does one 'leave' it? It's a website, takes one click to 'enter' and one click to 'leave'.
> 
> Like seriously, just think about it for a second, the amount of effort it takes to 'come' or 'go' to/from a website is virtually zero, just one tier above a neurological impulse - barely harder than breathing and less difficult than tying your shoelaces...


I've thought about this a lot and it really is super hard to leave. Mike has been kind enough to lend certain people a hand with a ban or two, but I would welcome a self-ban feature where you could give yourself your own temp ban. Something to help stay focused during deadline crunches etc.. @creativeforge and @Mike Greene would a feature like this even be technically possible? Is there maybe a xenforo plugin for it?




Crowe said:


> Lol. This is one of the least drama-prone forums I've ever frequented.


Where have you been posting before? I think this might actually be the _most _drama prone forum I have ever been part of (not so much the recent months, all the big drama events that I'm thinking of were pre-pandemic). The baseline friendliness here is admittedly also higher than on most or even all forums I've ever been part of, but compared to the other communities, composers seem to be the most emotionally volatile to me. (Now don't anyone dare get offended by this, or you're proving my point!)


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## el-bo (Jan 9, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> I've thought about this a lot and it really is super hard to leave. Mike has been kind enough to lend certain people a hand with a ban or two, but I would welcome a self-ban feature where you could give yourself your own temp ban. Something to help stay focused during deadline crunches etc.. @creativeforge and @Mike Greene would a feature like this even be technically possible? Is there maybe a xenforo plugin for it?


But even if you could be blocked from engaging, it wouldn't stop you from reading posts. I go through phases of not engaging, but I'm almost always lurking during those same periods.


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## gamma-ut (Jan 9, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Where have you been posting before? I think this might actually be the _most _drama prone forum I have ever been part of (not so much the recent months, all the big drama events that I'm thinking of were pre-pandemic).


I've seen some things, maaaan.

Like anywhere, VI-C membership appears to have some obsessions but it's pretty sedate compared with many I've seen (whatever the subject). You want to see photography forums on the subject of "back focus" in lenses.

I think though it might be more accurate to say VI-C is one with among the most level-headed moderation I've encountered, which counts for a lot in tamping down toxicity IMO. Gearspace approaches it as the iron hand in the iron glove, which has its own side effects. KVR is...well there are reasons it's the way it is. And I've seen worse.


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## creativeforge (Jan 9, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> I've thought about this a lot and it really is super hard to leave. Mike has been kind enough to lend certain people a hand with a ban or two, but I would welcome a self-ban feature where you could give yourself your own temp ban. Something to help stay focused during deadline crunches etc.. @creativeforge and @Mike Greene would a feature like this even be technically possible? Is there maybe a xenforo plugin for it?


Not that I know if, no. But you could do the following: request a password reset, and enter quickly a password impossible to remember, copy/paste to confirm it, don't look at it to long, and SAVE. Next time you try to login... 

Other than that, I'd have to check with Mike about other ways to "help members who can't help themselves to not login in" when they shouldn't.


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## Crowe (Jan 9, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> I've thought about this a lot and it really is super hard to leave. Mike has been kind enough to lend certain people a hand with a ban or two, but I would welcome a self-ban feature where you could give yourself your own temp ban. Something to help stay focused during deadline crunches etc.. @creativeforge and @Mike Greene would a feature like this even be technically possible? Is there maybe a xenforo plugin for it?
> 
> 
> 
> Where have you been posting before? I think this might actually be the _most _drama prone forum I have ever been part of (not so much the recent months, all the big drama events that I'm thinking of were pre-pandemic). The baseline friendliness here is admittedly also higher than on most or even all forums I've ever been part of, but compared to the other communities, composers seem to be the most emotionally volatile to me. (Now don't anyone dare get offended by this, or you're proving my point!)



Throughout the years I've been active on, among other sites:
GamingW (dead), Rpgmaker.net, Gearslutz, Muffwiggler, Spacebattles and Darkdominion (dead). The sites that still exist have drama *all the ffing time* up to the point that I don't really go there often anymore and the ones that are dead got killed by their drama. Oh, and stay away from any and all 'written fiction' forums if you think VIC is even slightly bad.

I don't know, for the amount of people active here on a daily basis, most of the folks here are pretty chill and there's not all that much need for moderation. There's exceptions of course, with all the annoying political stuff that folks keep on insisting has a place on a VI forum or the vitriol some specific members have for certain developers but other than that, it's really quite peaceful here.

We could, of course, have different definitions of drama. Righteous anger at invasive DRM, bad-faith pricing shenanigans and things like that don't register as drama to me.


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## MartinH. (Jan 9, 2022)

creativeforge said:


> Not that I know if, no. But you could do the following: request a password reset, and enter quickly a password impossible to remember, copy/paste to confirm it, don't look at it to long, and SAVE. Next time you try to login...
> 
> Other than that, I'd have to check with Mike about other ways to "help members who can't help themselves to not login in" when they shouldn't.


I've thought about the password reset before, but I think I'd just use the forgot-your-password function to get a new one. And I find just logging out is about equally effective.




el-bo said:


> But even if you could be blocked from engaging, it wouldn't stop you from reading posts. I go through phases of not engaging, but I'm almost always lurking during those same periods.


Good point. Logging out removes the notifications though, I find that makes it a bit easier to stay away when I actually do it. I wonder if being banned disables those or not. If it doesn't it might not be as useful as I thought.




gamma-ut said:


> You want to see photography forums on the subject of "back focus" in lenses.


Lol, I've heard of those memes from a hobby photographer friend. People with 10k+ Dollars worth of equipment that only take pictures of brick walls to check if their lenses suck instead of photographing anything worthwhile. Their version of complaining about bumpy legato I guess.




gamma-ut said:


> I think though it might be more accurate to say VI-C is one with among the most level-headed moderation I've encountered, which counts for a lot in tamping down toxicity IMO.


Oh, for sure! Mike is doing a great job keeping this place together!


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## Zedcars (Jan 9, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> I've thought about this a lot and it really is super hard to leave. Mike has been kind enough to lend certain people a hand with a ban or two, but I would welcome a self-ban feature where you could give yourself your own temp ban. Something to help stay focused during deadline crunches etc.. @creativeforge and @Mike Greene would a feature like this even be technically possible? Is there maybe a xenforo plugin for it?
> 
> 
> 
> Where have you been posting before? I think this might actually be the _most _drama prone forum I have ever been part of (not so much the recent months, all the big drama events that I'm thinking of were pre-pandemic). The baseline friendliness here is admittedly also higher than on most or even all forums I've ever been part of, but compared to the other communities, composers seem to be the most emotionally volatile to me. (Now don't anyone dare get offended by this, or you're proving my point!)


Well this would certainly stop you coming back to VI-C for a while (might have to do it to your phone too)…


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## chocobitz825 (Jan 9, 2022)

So…are we going to ignore how the problem is not the forum, but perhaps the obsessive-compulsive behaviors that fuel GAS and feuds on this forum?

I mean, how many times do we see people practically begging others to convince them to buy or not buy a new library they don’t need? Now we have suggestions for systems to encourage people to engage less.

Seems the simple answer is “disconnect”. If you lack self-control, this is not the place to be and there are deeper issues to work out.


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## Trash Panda (Jan 9, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> I've thought about this a lot and it really is super hard to leave. Mike has been kind enough to lend certain people a hand with a ban or two, but I would welcome a self-ban feature where you could give yourself your own temp ban. Something to help stay focused during deadline crunches etc.. @creativeforge and @Mike Greene would a feature like this even be technically possible? Is there maybe a xenforo plugin for it?


To be fair, if you have problems with impulse control to the point that you feel the need for a voluntary time out feature, then it’s likely you would never make use of it.


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## chillbot (Jan 9, 2022)

"I'm leaving" posts are the definition of drama-zone posts. The irony of leaving because of the "drama"...


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## gamma-ut (Jan 9, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> People with 10k+ Dollars worth of equipment that only take pictures of brick walls to check if their lenses suck instead of photographing anything worthwhile. Their version of complaining about bumpy legato I guess.


I'd forgotten about the brick-wall shots. My particular favourites are when someone takes a fish-eye lens and does the brick-wall shot, followed by a digital defish, whereupon they go into a "cowboys, Ted, they're all cowboys!" rant about the lack of sharpness at the edges.


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## quickbrownf0x (Jan 9, 2022)

Hey, what'd I miss? And is Zebra3 out yet?


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## RogiervG (Jan 9, 2022)




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## dunamisstudio (Jan 9, 2022)

quickbrownf0x said:


> Hey, what'd I miss? And is Zebra3 out yet?





dunamisstudio said:


> Quick look at post history, seems more Spitfire drama.


And, no, no Zebra 3 yet.


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## dunamisstudio (Jan 9, 2022)

When I want to cut out distractions, I just turn off internet in the Control Panel.
For those that need help with spending (I'm guilty of it too) here's a video for you:


(please take this in good humor, I'm not here to cause drama)


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## thereus (Jan 9, 2022)

Remind me which one you are, again...


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## kevinh (Jan 9, 2022)

I didn’t contribute a single thing to this thread but the turn to discuss how to be more productive instead of original drama doesn’t sit well with me so I’d like to announce I’m leaving this thread in anger….bye


Will check back every 20 minutes for any replies, reactions, and productivity tips hehe


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## quickbrownf0x (Jan 9, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> And, no, no Zebra 3 yet.






, kitty.


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## b_elliott (Jan 9, 2022)

I sometimes post stupit sh!t; so I's saved this for these kinda times:


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## veranad (Jan 9, 2022)

Come on, don't make the OP (Steve) feel bad

I am sure he wishes he had never started this thread already

(I am not being sarcastic)


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## TonalDynamics (Jan 9, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> I've ever been part of, but compared to the other communities, composers seem to be the most emotionally volatile to me. (Now don't anyone dare get offended by this, or you're proving my point!)


 Obviously you don't know many guitarists
(and even more fortunately haven't spent much time on r/guitar)

Most narcissistic and egomaniacal lot I've even known of any musician 'sub-type'

(and that's coming from me, playing guitar my whole life)

But yeah, composers/media music producers rank somewhere on that artistic/emotional volatility scale to be sure, however having spent my life around a great many musicians, I've found it to be quite moderate amongst composer-folk, at least with the attitudes reflected on this forum.

Somewhere between 'actual artist' and 'complete flake' (which is a fine range to be in)


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## TonalDynamics (Jan 9, 2022)

gamma-ut said:


> I've seen some things, maaaan.
> Gearspace approaches it as the iron hand in the iron glove, which has its own side effects.


Funny point that, even though they admittedly got browbeaten into changing to a (now utterly sarcastic) new name, I've always found GS' moderation policy to be quite lenient in terms of favoring free speech for their users as opposed to iron-fisted moderation.

Having said that and been a forum member there for over a decade, I would also say compared to composers, that producers (almost always the mid-tier/non A listers IME) tend to be a LOT more toxic in general than the folks who frequent this board.

...and of course there are many guitarists MIXED in to those boards as well.

Not even kidding, go to the guitars subforum on GS right now and look for any dozen or so + pages long post on amp simulators/emulation... the amount of tribalism, elitism and plain old crotchetiness is staggering at times (although there are decent arguments for and against on that topic)

And I wouldn't have it any other way.

A 'real' conversation is always of infinitely more intrinsic value than a highly moderated/censored one (within reason)

Just my .02


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## dunamisstudio (Jan 9, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> Not even kidding, go to the guitars subforum on GS right now and look for any dozen or so + pages long post on amp simulators/emulation... the amount of tribalism, elitism and plain old crotchetiness is staggering at times (although there are decent arguments for and against on that topic)


Yeah, I can believe that. Mention Amp Sim and people go bonkers.


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## reutunes (Jan 9, 2022)

"So much drama - I'm leaving!!!"

*slams door*

*peeks back in every day to check out resulting drama*


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## creativeforge (Jan 9, 2022)

On a serious note, and from a different perspective, online forum dependency is not something to scoff at. It is a real problem for some people. For others, it's not an issue.

There are many apps developed to actually help people disconnect from the web for their own sanity. Some offer monitoring and reminders to log off, and nagging alerts to disconnect.

This being said, there should be no shame dispensed toward those who struggle with it. It means they are in a tough spot at the moment and need help taking a break if only to refocus, get away from certain drama, complete a project, meet a deadline, etc. In these times of Covid, we should be even more sensitive toward this, I'd think.

Just my .02...


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## Bman70 (Jan 9, 2022)

OP never even made senior status, that's when it all gets great


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## CT (Jan 9, 2022)

As someone who has also "left" the forum (meaning I don't want to be involved in any ongoing interactions anymore as an "active member," but still do pop in occasionally obviously), I think it's a shame to presume narcissism as the motivation behind this thread. 

When I "left," I specifically pointed out in the relevant conversation that I was doing so. Didn't have anything to do with narcissism, it had everything to do with wanting to make it clear to the person who tipped the scales that they'd done so. Maybe it inevitably falls on deaf ears, but I feel like if you're so put off by a person or group of people in a community that it is driving you away, it's not unreasonable to want to point it out in the (foolish?) hope that maybe those individuals will look at how they conduct themselves a little more closely. Putting someone on "ignore" is just a band-aid.

I can't speak with any certainty about wilifordmusic's motivations, but smug jokes about this person's intentions and feelings is not really the best look, nor does it do much to strengthen the argument that this is in fact a totally even-keeled place and he should just sToP oVeRrEaCtInG bRo. The reputation of this forum outside of its own walls does not particularly bear that out either....

Having a bit of compassion and understanding for each other doesn't cost shit, and simply not chiming in at all if smarm is your default weapon is just as affordable an option. I think this place, the population of which has greatly expanded in the last couple years with... interesting results in terms of changed atmosphere, would be well-served by these approaches. Whatever its virtues over other communities are, there is absolutely room to improve. 

Anyway, hope you either stay away, or find the patience to navigate the place better, wilifordmusic.


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## kgdrum (Jan 9, 2022)

Bman70 said:


> OP never even made senior status, that's when it all gets great




Yes the creation of the exclusive VI-C-AARP forum has been a resounding success! 
👴 👍


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## creativeforge (Jan 9, 2022)

Bman70 said:


> OP never even made senior status, that's when it all gets great


Status is not actually conferred. It is more like something you choose. You can edit yourself. Check mine...


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## ka00 (Jan 9, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> As someone who has also "left" the forum (meaning I don't want to be involved in any ongoing interactions anymore as an "active member," but still do pop in occasionally obviously), I think it's a shame to presume narcissism as the motivation behind this thread.
> 
> When I "left," I specifically pointed out in the relevant conversation that I was doing so. Didn't have anything to do with narcissism, it had everything to do with wanting to make it clear to the person who tipped the scales that they'd done so. Maybe it inevitably falls on deaf ears, but I feel like if you're so put off by a person or group of people in a community that it is driving you away, it's not unreasonable to want to point it out in the (foolish?) hope that maybe those individuals will look at how they conduct themselves a little more closely. Putting someone on "ignore" is just a band-aid.
> 
> ...


Mike, can you please try the ignore bandaid? I find your voice on the forum enriching and its a shame to lose it. Also, I guarantee whoever you’re trying to clue into having tipped the scales doesn’t give a shit. So please, just put them on ignore. It makes using the forum easier.

I agree with everyone who said to give the OP a break. No need to mock the guy. Sometimes it’s easier to break a habit when you tell others about it.


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## TonalDynamics (Jan 9, 2022)

creativeforge said:


> On a serious note, and from a different perspective, online forum dependency is not something to scoff at. It is a real problem for some people. For others, it's not an issue.
> 
> There are many apps developed to actually help people disconnect from the web for their own sanity. Some offer monitoring and reminders to log off, and nagging alerts to disconnect.
> 
> ...


I think in that sense it's just an escape like any other, and like other forms of escapism it has certain addictive properties that can turn it into a vice (Gaming, gambling, drinking, drug use)

I suppose an impressive modern example would be VR Chat, which from what I can tell will likely be a major source of addiction in the future.

On some level as social creatures, socializing itself is addictive. For that reason I'm not so convinced that it demands a special sensitivity, or rather more sensitivity than we grant to say, someone who chooses to talk on the phone all day and shirk all responsibilities. I just see it as one of those things that each individual must actively balance, ie. the amount of social activity you engage in compared to the amount of _work_ you do each day.

Not an easy task sometimes. (especially for extroverts)

I do think the _most _important thing you can do is to ensure that your 'forum time' focuses primarily on healthy discussions (for me its always things I find fascinating/interesting, or that which better informs my work), and from that you will tend to have healthier relationships with other users and thus a better state of mind because the conversations themselves are not merely idle but quite satisfying.

Conversation is like music in that sense, the participants really have to put forth the effort to 'do it right', or else the end result isn't really palatable to anyone.


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## creativeforge (Jan 9, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> I just see it as one of those things that each individual must actively balance, ie. the amount of social activity you engage in compared to the amount of _work_ you do each day.



Thank you for sharing what works for you.

Not a perfect example, but would you advise someone with ADHD that they could get more done if only they focused more or removed distractions? If I may borrow a line from you, some kind of _work_ is also good to try and understand these things, no offense.

But like I said, I understand some don't have issues with managing their online interaction. I'm sure you understand that there are those who do, and it's not always just a question of "try harder try better" or "it's your own fault if you fail at it." Sometimes just getting offline can be the best thing to do for a while, and not everyone can do it alone, believe it or not, and it's OK.

Although social online time spent is not what the OP offered as a reason for his leaving. This just developed over a few responses to his post.


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## creativeforge (Jan 9, 2022)

ka00 said:


> Sometimes it’s easier to break a habit when you tell others about it.


Brilliant piece of wisdom... Real too.


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## chocobitz825 (Jan 9, 2022)

creativeforge said:


> Thank you for sharing what works for _you_.
> 
> Not a perfect example, but would you advise someone with ADHD that they could get more done if only they focused more or removed distractions? If I may borrow a line from you, some kind of _work_ is also good to try and understand these things, no offense.
> 
> ...


if the issue is addiction, then either way the solution is the same. if one is so addicted to forums that they cannot willingly disconnect, they definitely need to seek help for that, beyond just applications to regulate their time. The times are rough and of course, people are using the internet to escape. Perhaps someone should open a thread providing resources for those who are struggling in these times. a pool of resources for counseling and support groups, etc.


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## TonalDynamics (Jan 9, 2022)

creativeforge said:


> Thank you for sharing what works for you.
> 
> Not a perfect example, but would you advise someone with ADHD that they could get more done if only they focused more or removed distractions? If I may borrow a line from you, some kind of _work_ is also good to try and understand these things, no offense.


I'm not sure I understand the question, are you saying that someone with ADHD for instance would still have trouble working even if they had no outstanding addictions?

But in that case, wouldn't forum addiction for example be exacerbating the existing problem?

If I'm understanding you correctly, I'd have to say that someone with moderate to severe ADHD would have to work even more hours to achieve the same finished product, say, as another music producer, and thus the vices we outlined above are probably even more dangerous for them in a professional sense (based on my general understanding of it at least).

But it's an interesting topic though, ADHD.

Take a look at this study here:



Clinicians these days are making more and more distinctions about the disorder, namely that those with ADHD are _NOT_ incapable of focusing or concentrating, for just as long a period of time as someone with no ADHD - rather, it's that a person with ADHD finds it much more intolerable to focus on anything they do not find particularly rewarding or interesting in the _moment_, even to achieve a substantially rewarding long-term goal.

But that's another kettle o' fish entirely 

Cheers


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## chocobitz825 (Jan 9, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> But that's another kettle o' fish entirely
> 
> Cheers


speaking of fish....still waiting on them here....thats what I came for dammit!


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## quickbrownf0x (Jan 9, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> I'm not sure I understand the question, are you saying that someone with ADHD for instance would still have trouble working even if they had no outstanding addictions?
> 
> But in that case, wouldn't forum addiction for example be exacerbating the existing problem?
> 
> ...



That video is eerily similar to me sitting through a Teams meeting on the left, playing bullshit bingo and poking my eyes out with a rusty old fork,_ vs._ watching stupid cat videos on Youtube on the right until 5AM, with leftover Cheetos crumbs on my 'Pew, Pew, Pew!' ironic Star Wars shirt.


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## creativeforge (Jan 9, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> I'm not sure I understand the question, are you saying that someone with ADHD for instance would still have trouble working even if they had no outstanding addictions?


Nope, you are correct: you did not understand the comparison, that is totally not what I was saying. I was simply using an example to validate the experience of those who struggle with the gravitational pull of the online world and its dopamine rewards, at the expense of their daily life and obligations

As for ADHD - as Dr Hallowell (Google him) puts it: "ADHD is like having a Ferrari engine for a brain, with bicycle brakes."

In your example, you see a child facing two different situations: one is a math video, the other a movie. It is a false equivalency, but a very revealing experience.

► The first one is engaging his cognitive abilities with maths, which requires a sustained effort of focus but also of understanding. He is quickly disconnecting from the presentation. You see the level of distress and distraction as a sign the child is overwhelmed and probably keeps telling himself: "I'm so stupid, I'm dumb, fuck this shit, I'm an idiot, I'll never get this, why can't they find a better way to teach maths to kids, if only I could ask questions and have someone walk me through it, but it's on TV so tough luck, blah blah blah..." etc.

► As for the Star Wars movie, the child's imagination is engaged with sophisticated and multi-leveled story-telling. He has nothing to solve, he is free to explore and be creative without boundaries. It is very doubtful that he will have a negative or destructive self-image. Rather, he will probably pull out of the experience a lot of wisdom content (archetypes as highly relatable teaching tools, situational conflicts resolutions from beginning to end, moral choices, etc.).

All this will constitute a positive experience with a much longer residual remanence, branching out into the mind in all sorts of ways and potentially triggering a continued creative activity through daydreaming, drawing, play, writing, music, role play with friends, drama, etc. An experience that will be sought after again, because it does explode the restrictive boundaries of the executive brain.

In conclusion: there are ways to treat adult ADD/ADHD, and finding them is a life quest for most of us. To assume that we are just lazy or that we don't engage with what doesn't give us pleasure, is a gross caricature and misrepresentation.

Do an online search for personalities who had/have ADHD.

Peace.

Andre


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## ism (Jan 9, 2022)

Setting all the flippancy aside, it was a sincere post. And it's good to be gently reminded once in a while that the conflict really has consequences. 

And shapes the community by selecting against people who just can't be bothered with certain types of (generally completely unnecessary) drama.


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## TonalDynamics (Jan 9, 2022)

creativeforge said:


> Nope, you are correct: you did not understand the comparison, that is totally not what I was saying. I was simply using an example to validate the experience of those who struggle with the gravitational pull of the online world and its dopamine rewards, at the expense of their daily life and obligations
> 
> As for ADHD - as Dr Hallowell (Google him) puts it: "ADHD is like having a Ferrari engine for a brain, with bicycle brakes."
> 
> ...


I think the issue might be that you are using translator to write some fairly complicated ideas, so I'm unable to grasp your exact meaning (which is fine and certainly no reason to stop using translator if it suits you)

But as for comparing ADHD with those who have online addictions, then yes I would agree there is definitely some overlap there, but not necessarily that much.

Addiction and vice are dangers to all personality types and irrespective of whether someone has a disorder or not. To restate my position clearly, I'm not at all convinced that 'forum dependence' is something akin to an actual disorder like ADHD, but merely a rabbit's hole that is all too easy to fall too far into without proper discipline until you become obsessed with it, like any number of addictions;Obsession and addiction in and of themselves are not indicative of any disorder.

IE, having OCD increases the likelihood that you'll display obsessive behavior, but you don't need to have OCD to become obsessed, just like you don't need to have ADHD to become distracted/develop an unhealthy addiction to social media.

But feel free to disagree, it's an interesting discussion in any case.

As for your lament about the need to update the way we teach maths, I totally agree. It seems this is one of those areas where academia is lagging quite a bit behind the times. I only had one math teacher I actually liked all the way through high school, the rest were drier than dehydrated toast.
Maybe the issue is that only certain (dry) personality types are drawn to mathematics and thus they generally don't make great teachers?



creativeforge said:


> In conclusion: there are ways to treat adult ADD/ADHD, and finding them is a life quest for most of us. To assume that we are just lazy or that we don't engage with what doesn't give us pleasure, is a gross caricature and misrepresentation.
> 
> Do an online search for personalities who had/have ADHD.
> 
> ...



I hope this wasn't aimed at me, because I certainly never said people with ADHD were lazy.

But as for the bit about not engaging with what doesn't give you pleasure, that is clinically quite accurate (although a bit reductionist) statement and I stand by it because the recent literature supports it.

Andrew Huberman (Neuroscientist, prof. of Neurobiology at Stanford) has some great material on ADHD and even a whole podcast on it which is chock full of very recent and useful details on the matter.

Cheers


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## creativeforge (Jan 9, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> I think the issue might be that you are using translator to write some fairly complicated ideas, so I'm unable to grasp your exact meaning (which is fine and certainly no reason to stop using translator if it suits you)


I don't use a translator to write, no.


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## creativeforge (Jan 9, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> To restate my position clearly, I'm not at all convinced that 'forum dependence' is something akin to an actual disorder like ADHD, but merely a rabbit's hole that is all too easy to fall too far into without proper discipline until you become obsessed with it, like any number of addictions;Obsession and addiction in and of themselves are not indicative of any disorder.


I think we should end this exchange as you are going in circle about something I expressed but you still clearly misunderstood. It happens. 

No hard feeling. 

Andre


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Jan 9, 2022)

There’s a handful of folks who are super talented who have been “run off” due to arguments with people who don’t know what they are talking about. Also, the Spitfire guys got ran off too… but possibly partly due to their some questionable stuff they were engaged in. 

Then, there are a bunch of people who have been straight up banned. A few were pretty talented as well.

Then, there were lots who were run off or banned who (in my view) where pretty much useless. Nobody misses them. 

Like @Michaelt said, it is worth noting the differences.


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## easyrider (Jan 9, 2022)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Also, the Spitfire guys got ran off too… but possibly partly due to their some questionable stuff they were engaged in.


Yeah I noticed Christian and Paul don’t post anymore…..

TBH Christian just used the forum to promote his YouTube channel to gain subs….

What happened?


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## creativeforge (Jan 9, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> This is part of what’s wrong with this forum. If you’re talented, apparently you are a better human being and more worthy of being active on this forum than someone who don’t (yet) know a lot about mixing or whatever.
> 
> This putting different value on people depending on their skill level leads directly to another problem: Tolerating - indeed encouraging - otherwise intolerable behaviour as long as it’s from a skilled member and directed towards a lesser skilled member.


I disagree. Strongly. It could be your "impression." But this is certainly not how the forum operates. Good God. Not at the executive level. Maybe between certain members at times, you have this kind of behaviour in every community, online and offline. But that's not how the forum is run, Henrik.


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## Crowe (Jan 9, 2022)

creativeforge said:


> I disagree. Strongly. It could be your "impression." But this is certainly not how the forum operates. Good God. Not at the executive level. Maybe between certain members at times, you have this kind of behaviour in every community, online and offline. But that's not how the forum is run, Henrik.


It really doesn't happen systematically but I know of at least one person who's allowed to be an utter ass whenever he feels like it and is even defended by Mike because 'he's valuable to the community'.

On the other hand, even though I don't particularly like that, I mostly agree with Stephen here. I'm in favour of meritocracy so perks to being a valuable asset are to be expected. Up to a degree, but YMMV.

Anyway. This topic is wild.


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## creativeforge (Jan 10, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> This is exactly what I meant - I did not mean to state it was a systematic problem.


Thanks for clarifying, Henrik. Sorry I misunderstood.


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## Alex Fraser (Jan 10, 2022)

easyrider said:


> Yeah I noticed Christian and Paul don’t post anymore…..
> 
> TBH Christian just used the forum to promote his YouTube channel to gain subs….
> 
> What happened?


With rapid growth, Spitfire's audience is spread all over the place now, where once it was focused here. I think CH and PT are increasingly hands off with the day-to-day running of the company and salaried support stuff are probably less inclined to wade into VIC arguments.


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## re-peat (Jan 10, 2022)

Crowe said:


> I know of at least one person who's allowed to be an utter ass whenever he feels like it and is even defended by Mike because 'he's valuable to the community'.



I am not an ‘utter ass’, Crowe. Nobody here is, as far as I can tell. (You’re also misjudging Mike quite a bit if you think he would allow an utter ass to roam the forum unrestrained, hurting people’s feelings hither and thither, just because once in a while The Utter Ass also posts something that is not entirely without value to the community. Let’s be honest, my contributions here are not that exceptional — no one’s are — to justify me being an utter ass most of the time. Mike simply wouldn’t stand for that.)

But I make mistakes. Sure. And my mistakes tend to be very loud mistakes because I happen to have strong opinions on all things music, plus an irritating high level of feeling quite good about myself that can be quite easily misread for plain arrogance — maybe it is plain arrogance, I haven’t figured that out yet —, and an unfortunate way of communicating aggressively using the English language — which isn’t my native language — in a way that annoys people immensely. I know all that. Can’t do much about it however, because that’s how my writing style evolved over the years. Trust me, it bothers me more than you can imagine.

But I’m not an ass. Henrik is not an ass either. Neither is Stephen. I’ve had fierce run-ins with both and deeply disliked their online personae at those moments (and didn’t hesitate to say so), just as they disliked mine I assume, but that is exactly what it is: a clash of online personae. Mine doesn’t even begin to reflect who I really am, and I’m sure there’s much more to the real Henrik and Stephen as well than their online personae reveal to me. I’m not saying we would be the best of friends in real life, maybe we would, maybe not, but we certainly wouldn’t face each other with drawn swords every single time we meet, as our online personae tend to do. (For some reason, online personae also seem to have a lot more testosterone than the real people behind them do. To the point of inflating an already pronounced ego. That's certainly so in my case. There’s probably a good psychological explanation for that.)

I’ve had bitter clashes with several other people here in the past as well — ask André, ask José, ask Guy Bacos — when I said some truly shameful things to them; but then, sometime later, the circumstances arranged themselves in such a way that we got to know one another in a completely different light, and today I wouldn’t dream of addressing them with anything less than my complete respect and sincerest affection.

The thing I struggle with most of all is that my online persona — the thing called ‘re-peat’ — seems to have a life and a will of its own at times. It really does. And somehow, I can’t control it. It’s like Dexter’s Dark Passenger. Something triggers the ‘re-peat’ inside me, and off it goes on one of its highly unpleasant sprees.
A little while ago I was asked, why I am often so vicious on VI-C and always so mellow, friendly and easy-going on The Sound Board (the little forum around the corner). I’m not sure, but I guess me operating under the monniker ‘re-peat’ here might have something to do with it. On The Sound Board, I write under my own name, and it clearly makes a big difference on what I write and how I formulate my opinions. That’s not the whole explanation of course: it has to be said that here on VI-C, I do encounter a lot more that irks me than I do on The Sound Board but that is only to be expected as VI-C is infinitely bigger and more diverse than The Sound Board is.

And finally, I have a few strong allergies as well. I hate ‘gurus’, self-appointed experts or teachers, and most people with YouTube channels. Silly perhaps, but that's how it is. Something about them — and there’s a lot of them in V.I. land — that just rubs me the wrong way. Really can’t stand them and their cultus of self-glorification.

All or any of the above is of course never an excuse for re-peat at his worst. I know that too. Re-peat at his worst can indeed be an utter ass. I would loath him too if I weren’t him.

_


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## MartinH. (Jan 10, 2022)

re-peat said:


> A little while ago I was asked, why I am often so vicious on VI-C and always so mellow, friendly and easy-going on The Sound Board (the little forum around the corner). I’m not sure, but I guess me operating under the monniker ‘re-peat’ here might have something to do with it. On The Sound Board, I write under my own name, and it clearly makes a big difference on what I write and how I formulate my opinions.



That could easily be changed, as an experiment:





Can I get a name change?


I would like to change my name to Adam Hooper, if possible (Concatenated would be fine too)! I didn't realize how much time I would be spending here when I signed up. I am enjoying my time so far! Thank you so much!




vi-control.net





For what it's worth I didn't even think of you when I read Crowe's post, I thought of someone else.


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## Crowe (Jan 10, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> That could easily be changed, as an experiment:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To be fair, I did in fact write that with Piet in mind. Though I'm not at all an important figure here, it is not the first time I've made mention of my opinion on some of Re-peat's more condemning posts.

Re-peat, for what it's worth, I appreciate self-reflection much more than I could ever appreciate meaningless or unmeant apologies so I think my annoyance has abated. I will endeavour to release myself from my arguably unwarranted crusade against your harshness.

I suppose I better understand why Mike doesn't take issue with you.

Well. That was dramatic.


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## creativeforge (Jan 10, 2022)

re-peat said:


> I’ve had bitter clashes with several other people here in the past as well — ask André, ask José, ask Guy Bacos — when I said some truly shameful things to them; but then, sometime later, the circumstances arranged themselves in such a way that we got to know one another in a completely different light, and today I wouldn’t dream of addressing them with anything less than my complete respect and sincerest affection.


Statement of truth!  And you have my trust and gratitude, Piet.

Peace,

André


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## chocobitz825 (Jan 10, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> With rapid growth, Spitfire's audience is spread all over the place now, where once it was focused here. I think CH and PT are increasingly hands off with the day-to-day running of the company and salaried support stuff are probably less inclined to wade into VIC arguments.


Proof that you couldn’t even pay some people to dig through the mud in VIC….😅


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## applegrovebard (Jan 10, 2022)

If the original post was a sincere and definitive goodbye he won't have seen any of these replies. I wonder....


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## Denix (Jan 11, 2022)

Seems like there is a Douglas Adams Quote for everything, even for this thread. 

“I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.”
(Douglas Adams)


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