# Why do film makers insist on a pop song at the end credits?



## IFM (Dec 19, 2013)

This is a pet peeve of mine and every time it happens (with one exception) it drives me crazy. I was especially irritated after getting to the end of Desolation on Friday to be jarred out of the bubbly with a miserable pop song that was like having a peaceful drive then being hit with a semi. 

Am I the only one who feels this way? I wish this trend would end. The only time this has worked for me was in LOTR Fellowship with Enya doing the song...it actually felt like part of the score and flowed easily. 

/end rant

Chris


----------



## Daryl (Dec 19, 2013)

It's not exactly a trend, seeing as it's been going on for at least 50 years. However, I do tend to agree with you, so unless I actually like the song, the only thing it achieves is that I leave the cinema before the credits have really got going.

D


----------



## FredrikJonasson (Dec 19, 2013)

I thought about it in Hobbit part two, it really felt like they were trying to wake me up and take all impressions away from me. "The movie is over, now get lost!"


----------



## Jimbo 88 (Dec 19, 2013)

because it makes money....


----------



## IFM (Dec 19, 2013)

Jimbo 88 @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> because it makes money....



This I know...and it seems to cater to the tween crowd.


----------



## gsilbers (Dec 19, 2013)

imo - i dont know why they have end credits at all nowadays. make a legit imdb type site, if you want to know credits check there. dont care to see 500 composite artists block of credits. 
maybe its only there to sell pop music?


----------



## JJP (Dec 19, 2013)

It also gives the film another category for which to be nominated at the Oscars. Plus there's cross-marketing potential.


----------



## handz (Dec 19, 2013)

Because these times are bad, most of movie music sucks, movies itself sucks... everything is doing as a standardized product to gather most money from everybody, there is less and less soul and art in this. There are of course exceptions, but not so long ago, even blockbusters had it. Now all is just cold marketing, product placement and merchindise. 

Songs at the end of movies from some "now popular among teenagers tomorrow forever forgotten" band / singer is just top of the iceberg..


----------



## Phil C. (Dec 19, 2013)

On a forum, a guy wrote that he never heard a waltz of his life, but Wainting on an Angel by Ben Harper (I don't know this song).
I answered that if he has seen Stanley Kubrick's 2001 Space Odyssey, then he already heard one, Strauss's Blue Danube.
So he wrote that he saw the movie, and that he remembered this tune.

In my opinion, this just means that for most of the people, music is only songs.

So if a producer wants to sell a soundtrack not only to musicians, especially composers, he must add a song to the soundtrack.


----------



## Greg (Dec 19, 2013)

I personally don't mind it unless it is a really terrible song. It helps bring you back to reality and take you out of the drama / tone of the film.


----------



## paulmatthew (Dec 19, 2013)

I don't get it either. I watched "The Host" recently and the soundtrack was great throughout the film . It was mostly ambient , piano , some guitar and string sections , then right at the end it goes into Imagine Dragons - Radioactive . Seriously ??? I admit the guitar intro went with soundtrack , but the song itself did not , and I am an Imagine Dragons fan but not for this instance. If it would have been an ambient version it would have gone seamlessly with the soundtrack.

Do the film companies get paid to plug these songs in to the film at the end? It seems odd to pay someone to do the score for a film and then mar it with a radio rotation song at the end of it.


----------



## Phil C. (Dec 19, 2013)

Greg @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> I personally don't mind it unless it is a really terrible song. It helps bring you back to reality and take you out of the drama / tone of the film.



Yes, but you have to stay till the end of the end credits, a very few people do it.


----------



## lux (Dec 19, 2013)

it definitely depends from song/movie.


----------



## handz (Dec 19, 2013)

Greg @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> I personally don't mind it unless it is a really terrible song. It helps bring you back to reality and take you out of the drama / tone of the film.



Which is something you DEFINITELY DONT WANT of course.. this is like when they cut end titles in TV with "coming next on..." or advertisements, totally ruins the mood, end titles with music from the movie (usually music iscontinuing from last scene, is something very important for the whole experience, I usually stay in cinema even till the end of the titles just because of that...


----------



## TheUnfinished (Dec 19, 2013)

I think sometimes it works just fine. The worst examples I've seen are some Japanese horror films that have ended with upbeat dance-pop songs.

One of my favourite examples is Event Horizon ending with Prodigy's "Funky Shit".

The soundtrack 'suite' thing can be cool, but always works best with a leitmotif style writer like John Williams. His Star Wars and Harry Potter end credits suites are always a joy.


----------



## germancomponist (Dec 19, 2013)

TheUnfinished @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> The soundtrack 'suite' thing can be cool, but always works best with a leitmotif style writer like John Williams. His Star Wars and Harry Potter end credits suites are always a joy.


+1


----------



## ProtectedRights (Dec 19, 2013)

I like a popsong at the end of a movie. Most movie scores are only the ever and ever same stuff that bores me to death. It only functions together with the picture, without the picture the completely arbitrary and meaningless music just bugs the shit out of me, I've heard it all a gazillion times. So, after leaving the world of the movie, I am happy to get back into the real world accompanied by a pop song. 

My 2 cents. 

I guess some pro score producers here might feel offended, but hey, I am just expressing how I feel about it. And, the opinion that many movie scores (especially epic) sounds more or less the same, was expressed by others, too, so I am not all alone.

Sometimes, if the music is really creative and new, I don't mind if it continues during the credits.


----------



## Ron Snijders (Dec 19, 2013)

Nice thread. I actually found Ed Sheeran's track at the end of Desolation a great move! I think it captures the 'What have we done?' vibe of that scene in a way that an orchestral score couldn't have done, even from Howard Shore. It took me from 'epic fantasy' to 'I have done something very stupid, it's going to have grave consequences and there is NOTHING I can do about it anymore'.


----------



## RiffWraith (Dec 19, 2013)

gsilbers @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> imo - i dont know why they have end credits at all nowadays.



It's called honoring the CBA with IATSE.

Cheers.


----------



## JonFairhurst (Dec 19, 2013)

I don't mind it (except when the song is particularly bad or mis-matched) and I think it serves a clear function: it confirms to the subconscious mind that the film has ended.

Yeah, there's something cool about a haunting ending that lets the mood linger but this only works if the movie and ending are really, really solid. If the ending is in any way incomplete or unsatisfying, the audience might feel like something is missing. It's much easier to play the pop song that signifies completion of the experience.

In Japan, there is a ceremony at the end of a formal business dinner of "Ippon-jime". There are three sets of three claps and then a final clap. When completed, everybody leaves.

The right ending depends on the film. At the end of the Sixth Sense, I want the film to linger with the kid making peace with seeing dead people. Oooh.

I love the mood at the end of the Matrix. It's a modern song that fits the mood of the film and shows the irreverent promise of The One.

But for a comedy, give me a cheap pop song (and maybe one last zinger) to send me off smiling from the theater.


----------



## gsilbers (Dec 19, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> gsilbers @ Thu Dec 19 said:
> 
> 
> > imo - i dont know why they have end credits at all nowadays.
> ...



and that cant be done with the legit imdb-ish type site?


----------



## IFM (Dec 19, 2013)

Ron Snijders @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> Nice thread. I actually found Ed Sheeran's track at the end of Desolation a great move! I think it captures the 'What have we done?' vibe of that scene in a way that an orchestral score couldn't have done, even from Howard Shore. It took me from 'epic fantasy' to 'I have done something very stupid, it's going to have grave consequences and there is NOTHING I can do about it anymore'.



Well I certainly couldn't be angry you like the song, especially seeing it as the most popular track on iTunes, but to me it is like having a nice relaxing massage then having a bucket of ice water tossed on you. Why must we need words to convey this in a cheesy pop tune? o-[][]-o


----------



## JJP (Dec 20, 2013)

gsilbers @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> RiffWraith @ Thu Dec 19 said:
> 
> 
> > gsilbers @ Thu Dec 19 said:
> ...


As somebody who often deals with studio legacy material and who has sat at the table for union negotiations, I can assure that would be a very bad idea.

Who pays for and maintains that site? What happens if it stops being maintained? Who is responsible if the credits are incorrect? Plus you're also assuming that everyone has access to the internet whenever they are watching or researching the film.

Credits are in the film because that way they are connected to the actual product at all times and the responsibility for the credits is held by the same people who sign the contracts and pay for the film. Plus, once the film is done, the credits are done. No continuing maintenance or expense is needed.

Finally those who worked on the film want you to see their names in the film for a variety of reasons which I won't list because we're already hijacking this thread.


----------



## bbunker (Dec 20, 2013)

I just caught this thread for whatever reason, but the first post is hilarious. For me, anyway, because I thought EXACTLY the same thing at the end of Hobbit "2". I was kind of ambivalent about the score for much of it. Which was fitting, because the film as a whole felt a bit tired and tedious to me.

And then the end credits came, and the pop song kicked in, and I groaned out loud and stood up. Up until that point I was just a bit bored at times, but walking out to that tune it made the whole exercise seem very small, and meaningless, and dull. The film definitely strutted and fretted its (three) hours upon the stage, but just cared a bit too much about what I thought of it.

Look, guys...if you want to make an epic, dwarves and orcs hack-and-slash, just flipping do it already. Don't throw pop tunes in at the end to say "we like orcs and goblins but we're COOL!" Nope, I want as many horns as you can fit in a scoring stage pointing their bells at the ceilings and disrupting traffic on the 110. Go hard or go home, right?


----------



## mr (Jan 23, 2014)

ProtectedRights @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> I like a popsong at the end of a movie. Most movie scores are only the ever and ever same stuff that bores me to death. It only functions together with the picture, without the picture the completely arbitrary and meaningless music just bugs the shit out of me, I've heard it all a gazillion times. So, after leaving the world of the movie, I am happy to get back into the real world accompanied by a pop song.
> 
> My 2 cents.
> 
> ...



+1

Ed Sheeran wrote the song after watching the film, and I think the song (lyrics, melody, instrumentation/production) captures the emotion very well.

If you have a great singer, music can establish an emotional connection to the listener via the voice on a whole new level (versus "just instrumental"). Also, most score music is written to serve and work with the picture, songs are written to work by themselves. Since there is not much picture during the end credits, using a song makes sense, I would think.


----------



## NYC Composer (Jan 23, 2014)

It's usually a publishing deal between the film studio and the record company or whichever entity that will release the soundtrack. Hands are washed, deals are made.


----------



## Rctec (Jan 23, 2014)

All Wrong! Sometimes it's the film-maker's idea, but usually it's driven by marketing - because it gives them another short-firm trailer opportunity that they can cross cut with the scenes from the film to reach another (MTV) audience. 
Sometimes the song actually works as a coda to the film.
I, personally, haven't worked on a film in ages that has a song at the end.
...and it's (if you get someone good) a very expensive proposition...especially with the declining record sales, so no one gets rich on that.
Yes, there are exceptions to that, of course...

And, the credits are there because these people have worked their arses off, and it's their film! I can't believe that some of you have so little respect for your fellow artists - but I just want to hear the amount of howling when you get a movie and the producer quotes your statements from this web-site why you shouldn't have a credit. Because credits are expensive. They make the movie longer in a non-profitable way...
Plus, IMDB is very flawed and there are quite a few - shall we say "imaginary" credits.


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 23, 2014)

Rctec @ Thu Jan 23 said:


> All Wrong! Sometimes it's the film-maker's idea, but usually it's driven by marketing - because it gives them another short-firm trailer opportunity that they can cross cut with the scenes from the film to reach another (MTV) audience.
> Sometimes the song actually works as a coda to the film.
> I, personally, haven't worked on a film in ages that has a song at the end.
> ...and it's (if you get someone good) a very expensive proposition...especially with the declining record sales, so no one gets rich on that.
> ...


----------



## AC986 (Jan 23, 2014)

Daryl @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> It's not exactly a trend, seeing as it's been going on for at least 50 years.
> 
> D



And some. Not just at the end of films either. They would stick them IN the film constantly. The Man Who Knew Too Much immediately springs to mind.


----------



## NYC Composer (Jan 23, 2014)

Rctec @ Thu Jan 23 said:


> All Wrong! Sometimes it's the film-maker's idea, but usually it's driven by marketing - because it gives them another short-firm trailer opportunity that they can cross cut with the scenes from the film to reach another (MTV) audience.
> Sometimes the song actually works as a coda to the film.
> I, personally, haven't worked on a film in ages that has a song at the end.
> ...and it's (if you get someone good) a very expensive proposition...especially with the declining record sales, so no one gets rich on that.
> ...



My brother was the President of Roadrunner, Records and they got a NickelBack tune in at the end of a Spiderman movie. I remember there being a fair amount of cross pollination and deal making regarding publishing and branding.


----------



## NYC Composer (Jan 23, 2014)

adriancook @ Thu Jan 23 said:


> Daryl @ Thu Dec 19 said:
> 
> 
> > It's not exactly a trend, seeing as it's been going on for at least 50 years.
> ...



Adrian, that is exactly who I want to be when I grow up. I want to place my songs in film and television.I've gotten a few in the past few years, but it's tough sledding.


----------



## mr (Jan 23, 2014)

Rctec @ Thu Jan 23 said:


> ..
> And, the credits are there because these people have worked their arses off, and it's their film! I can't believe that some of you have so little respect for your fellow artists - but I just want to hear the amount of howling when you get a movie and the producer quotes your statements from this web-site why you shouldn't have a credit. Because credits are expensive. They make the movie longer in a non-profitable way...
> Plus, IMDB is very flawed and there are quite a few - shall we say "imaginary" credits.



I usually sit through the credits and am amazed how many people were involved in making that movie. And since credits are expensive, I would guess that the list is incomplete and should be even longer in some cases. 
If you take that into account, even huge movie budgets are probably not that huge anymore.


----------



## G.R. Baumann (Jan 23, 2014)

Rctec @ Thu Jan 23 said:


> All Wrong! Sometimes it's the film-maker's idea, but usually it's driven by marketing - because it gives them another short-firm trailer opportunity that they can cross cut with the scenes from the film to reach another (MTV) audience.



Some stunning example, matter of taste of course, I like it a lot! If I remember the film correctly, it also worked as a coda... 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3f738_aerosmith-i-dont-wanna-miss-a-thing_shortfilms


----------



## Udo (Jan 23, 2014)

Actually, there's a very pragmatic reason for it: it puts people in the right frame of mind to drive a car after leaving the cinema, i.e. get them out of that "far away", dreamy, etc., state and so avoid accidents (and litigation).


----------



## AC986 (Jan 24, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Thu Jan 23 said:


> adriancook @ Thu Jan 23 said:
> 
> 
> > Daryl @ Thu Dec 19 said:
> ...



Larry for one second there I thought you meant you wanted to be Doris Day. 

I see what you mean. Must be good money in that. John Barry used to write his own so he knew what he was doing. I couldn't write a song if my life depended on it.


----------



## JonFairhurst (Jan 24, 2014)

Just last night, I saw an old Joan Crawford film, Flamingo Road (1949). They sang bits of a pop song at least twice in the film, used the melody as a motif, and closed the film with the melody. 

Heck, when they invented sound for pictures, people felt that this was for music, not dialog. The Jazz Singer (1927) included nine songs but still used visual dialog cards. So the trend hasn't been going on for just 50 years; it started with the very first sync sound picture!

_"I'd walk a million miles For one of your smiles, My Mammy!"_

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jazz_Singer#Songs


----------



## snowleopard (Jan 24, 2014)

I remember about 30 years ago seeing Halloween II in the theater as a teenager. Not as good of film as the original, but a pretty scary sequel none the less. After the harrowing finale, I was a bit disappointed to hear _Mr. Sandman _pop in as the film finished. 

"Mr. Sandman?" I thought. "That's like a happy song from my parents' time! What a way to take you out of the mood!" Or so I thought at the time. Now, I think it's kind of witty actually. 


Going back to what Unfinished said. If memory serves Event Horizon actually used an Orbital song in the opening, which acually worked. So you can't entirely blame the filmmakers for poor, or mis-matched taste!


----------



## StephenForsyth (Apr 19, 2014)

Some of you guys must be flat out allergic to bollywood movies then.


----------



## Neifion (Apr 19, 2014)

I still shudder thinking of that rock version of "Bear and the Maiden Fair" at the end of one of the episodes in Game of Thrones Season 3. Not only did half of it sound identical to "It's The End Of The World", but it was so jarring I almost fell out of my chair.


----------



## The Darris (Apr 19, 2014)

The end credits of Sam Raimi's Spiderman 1 is the worst about this: http://youtu.be/migd-tYwppw?t=36s


----------



## NYC Composer (Apr 19, 2014)

The Darris @ Sat Apr 19 said:


> The end credits of Sam Raimi's Spiderman 1 is the worst about this: http://youtu.be/migd-tYwppw?t=36s



I know the inside story of this one, but if I told you, I'd have to shoot you


----------



## midi_controller (Apr 19, 2014)

Neifion @ Sat Apr 19 said:


> I still shudder thinking of that rock version of "Bear and the Maiden Fair" at the end of one of the episodes in Game of Thrones Season 3. Not only did half of it sound identical to "It's The End Of The World", but it was so jarring I almost fell out of my chair.



This right here has got to be one of the most jarring and inappropriate uses of music placement I've ever had the misfortune to experience. It had to be a joke, I just can't think of any sane person thinking that was a good way of ending an episode.

Overall, I'm not too bothered by a song during the end credits. Sometimes it works fine for me, sometimes it doesn't, but I'm only disappointed if I really liked the score and was hoping for an end credits suite. Of course, with the end credits starting to reach the monolithic length of 10+ minutes on some films, you might end up getting both.


----------

