# Collection of Cool Composition Ideas



## Soundbed (Aug 8, 2021)

I’m tired of talking about samples and reading about people talking about samples. 

What’s a cool compositional idea you’ve come across lately?

Here’s one I wasn’t taught in music school (including my basic jazz piano classes):


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## Soundbed (Aug 11, 2021)

Another idea that I’ve used occasionally. Rhythmic augmentation and diminution.

Rhythmic Variation for Movement (Composer Tip)


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## Ricgus3 (Aug 11, 2021)

Nice! You are spot on! After all these sales I really need to learn new skills and actually use all my stuff i bought now instead of just reading about opinions on sample libraries! Great addition! The orchestral recepies also peaked my interest!


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## Ricgus3 (Aug 11, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Another idea that I’ve used occasionally. Rhythmic augmentation and diminution.
> 
> Rhythmic Variation for Movement (Composer Tip)



Do you have this rythmic stuff to show in context? When the notes are close in the "cell" i find it to create alot of dissonence. Might work better for more open intervals like fifths and forths? But want to hear it in a context before i say too much


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## Soundbed (Aug 11, 2021)

Ricgus3 said:


> Do you have this rythmic stuff to show in context? When the notes are close in the "cell" i find it to create alot of dissonence. Might work better for more open intervals like fifths and forths? But want to hear it in a context before i say too much


Not that I have permission to share right now, sorry.


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## Zedcars (Aug 11, 2021)

Here’s one:

You can apply the 12-tone technique grid to any musical element, not just notes. Create a grid like the first example (Based on row by Schoenberg, String Quartet No. 4 (Op. 37)) and apply it to:


Rhythms,
Dynamics,
Instrumentation,
Articulations,
Tempi.
Or even more far out there:

Emotions/moods,
Decisions (musical or other decision that may influence the performance e.g. shut eyes every other bar),
Play/don’t play,
Imitating wildlife (birds, insects, whale-song).

Pretty much anything your imagination can think of. Then just select a row or rows and create a piece based on that. Then you just need some musicians willing to play it!

Key: P=Prime, R=Retrograde, I=Inverted, RI=Retrograde Inverted


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## PeterN (Aug 11, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I’m tired of talking about samples and reading about people talking about samples.
> 
> What’s a cool compositional idea you’ve come across lately?
> 
> Here’s one I wasn’t taught in music school (including my basic jazz piano classes):



The guy mentioned *Goldfinger.* Mind I throw it in here? Lot details to listen to.


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## Soundbed (Aug 14, 2021)

Here’s a list I found tonight, sparked some ideas for me.





Primary Music Composition Techniques Rarely Taught In Schools:


Composers have made use of techniques, which Lebetkin calls the "secret sauce" from Bach to Beethoven to Bartok, to Elton John, Lennon/McCartney, now Adele, F




stevenlebetkin.com






Primary Music Composition Techniques Rarely Taught In Schools:


Controlled repetition– Once, Twice, Three times you’re out. The art of repetition of notes, phrases, and other short musical gestures developed by Haydn and Mozart. These make or break techniques can be learned to enable non-musician adults to better understand why they enjoy certain pieces and why others miss the mark. For musicians, including composers, Lebetkin goes deeper and identifies where craft begins and ends, and where art and genius take over.
Temporization– is like a roadside rest on a long journey. This musical and compositional technique provides listeners with a brief break, almost like “active rest” in a difficult workout, so that the music continues without interruption but in a way that allows the listener to emotionally take in what they have heard before moving on to the next moment of musical interest. This technique will be identified for non-musicians, and explained more deeply in its application to trained musicians.
Staggered Melody– Melody, whether played or sung (and in any register) is almost invariably accompanied by one or more instruments. There are three ways in which this occurs: 1) Melody first, then accompaniment 2) Accompaniment, then melody 3) All together (“tutti”). This technique applies to music of all styles and genres, from classical to the most contemporary of commercial and popular songs of the day. The compositional technique of Staggered Melody is the one most often omitted from composition classes at universities throughout the world, a frequent deficiency of pop song writers, composers of scores in media, and throughout the remaining market. When unrecognized, the result is music that is lacking in an unidentifiable way, particularly by those involved in music creation and/or production to then improve. When addressed, the differences are striking.
The “Sounds” of Silence– When the music stops, the beat goes on. It’s all about heart. We all have a heart, which beats in pairs, so when you think the music has stopped, your beating heart takes over. Learn, for example why it’s so difficult to dance to a waltz. Two legs, three beats. Do the math.
Where is Sound? Why Schoenberg Lost His Footing– Ever wonder why all humans hear music in much the same way? Music in the brain – the overtone series, the structural foundation of Western music, is hardwired and the brain creates its own sounds that may not appear in a music score. It’s magic! It also rejects sound combinations that the brain is not wired for, hence where atonality fails.
Sound Kernels– The “real” new musical language of the last hundred years that works. After Richard Wagner stretched tonality to the breaking point, composers went into two directions in the race to provide listeners something to hold onto and prevent drowning in a meaningless sea of sound. Some composers reached for organized pitch structure (like twelve tone tonality and serialism), but others, like Bela Bartok created little worlds (“Mikrokosmos”) that became the foundation for new integrated and completely accessible languages that only apply to a single musical work at a time.
Glue – What keeps a piece from falling apart at the seams? Glue! The use of common tones to support chord changes in the music is essential for musical continuity. Music in any style that lacks at least one note that is common to the next chord or change in the music will fall apart. It can be quite disturbing to listeners; they will be unable to verbalize why, but they will sense there is something wrong and the music doesn’t hang together. This principal of music composition is essential for the enjoyment of music in any style, whether classical, film, commercial songs, or any other venue. This is how we hear and enjoy.
Just The Right Next Note – The Principle of Musical Inevitability, the Holy Grail for composers, is the ability to compose music that when heard by listeners impresses as a series of perfect choices from beginning to end. From the initial idea to the final note, this is a “wrap around” technique for which each traditional composition technique constitutes the grammatical and syntactical tools for the language of music, then applied to improvisations in an organized way until the achievement of a completed composition. Great composers hear music and make choices based upon their best perception of the human experience and how we hear music – vertically (a moment in time), linearly (moving forward), and contextually retrospective (current sounds in relationship to what has been heard previously)
Three Dimensional Music Composition – Retrospective contextual hearing, is the human phenomenon of hearing the music of a specific piece (whether single or multi-movement, from commercial songs to symphonies) at a moment in time against the backdrop of the music of that piece heard earlier. People hear music in context, as a continuum, one of the great wonders of the human condition. We hear and absorb musical information much like one would read a book or poem, on multiple levels. In music, this is sometimes called fundamental structure (German: Ursatz), and its two subsets – foreground and middle ground levels. Somewhat analogously, this addresses the overall structure of a work (Ursatz), then a detailed chapter outline (middle ground) and then the words/notes of the piece itself (foreground). These techniques of three dimensional musical composition when applied by skilled and talented composers, regardless of the musical language selected, give rise to this three dimensional listening experience, which when achieved, makes for a more universally absorbed composition that bears repeated listenings and stands the test of time.


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## Soundbed (Aug 14, 2021)

Ricgus3 said:


> When the notes are close in the "cell" i find it to create alot of dissonence.


on the topic of dissonance, I’m reminded of the middle this video, when he is talking about Satie, saying that enough consistent dissonance creates it’s own sort of consonance. Not trying to resolve into something else; just BEing. (paraphrasing)


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## InLight-Tone (Aug 14, 2021)

Wow, this thread is a breath of fresh air, thank you!


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## nanotk (Aug 14, 2021)

Here's an interesting approach who could be done also with a pencil and a paper:


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## Ricgus3 (Aug 14, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> on the topic of dissonance, I’m reminded of the middle this video, when he is talking about Satie, saying that enough consistent dissonance creates it’s own sort of consonance. Not trying to resolve into something else; just BEing. (paraphrasing)



Very interesting! Love Erik Satie! Yes dissonance can be soft and hard and sound consonance in the right context.


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## mikeh-375 (Aug 15, 2021)

I quite like using or inventing synthetic scales, even scales over more than one octave. The fun starts when you then make up some new vertical chord structures and plane them across the scale. Going further, you can apply many common practice techniques too like enharmonic modulation, key(!!) changes, modal shifts, mirror inversions of chords and so on. The sonic possibilities are endless and yet have a solid foundation of control one can refer to no matter the complexity of language. 

There is inevitably almost too much material generated and only a fraction of it will get used but establishing parameters like this is a damn fine search tool I've found, with options galore.


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## Dirtgrain (Aug 15, 2021)

Stuff about triad variations shared to me by lobanov on KVRAudio:


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## Soundbed (Aug 15, 2021)

Dirtgrain said:


> Stuff about triad variations shared to me by lobanov on KVRAudio:



Wow those are really ear opening!
What a masterclass.
In the middle of the talking about how triads have some sort of innate “cohesion” I was reminded of a set of five pieces I wrote in the mid 90’s. I was exploring 12 tone melodies. But within a melody that went through all 12 chromatic tones I wanted to outline some traditional harmonic shapes so I let 3rds and 5th and triads appear. Then I harmonized them with some standard (traditional) techniques so they would sound more … acceptable? It wasn’t as involved as what you are mentioning @Zedcars and most of the rhythmic pulses were based on two against three. (It was actually a mini electronic operetta with three characters and two of them usually sided with each other although allegiances seemed to change.)

So the exercise was to write a melody that uses all 12 chromatic tones in a sequence, but allow triads or triad fragments to be outlined. Also allow notes to repeat but only during their “slot” in the sequence, sort of like a re-attack of the same note before moving on to next notes in the sequence. Then set the quasi dodecaphonic melody within a standard “groove”.

I found when setting these melodies to words that 12 or so syllables weren’t enough, so I would often repeat the 12 tone sequence with a different rhythm to complete the melodic phrases.


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## szczaw (Aug 15, 2021)

nanotk said:


> Here's an interesting approach who could be done also with a pencil and a paper:



I have a soft spot for Lisp. It's quite expensive and for Crapple only. Do they have sales ?


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## nanotk (Aug 15, 2021)

szczaw said:


> I have a soft spot for Lisp. It's quite expensive and for Crapple only. Do they have sales ?


Yes they have periodic sales.


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## szczaw (Aug 15, 2021)

nanotk said:


> Yes they have periodic sales.


Then I'll keep an eye on it !


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## Soundbed (Aug 15, 2021)

nanotk said:


> Here's an interesting approach who could be done also with a pencil and a paper:



This is pretty wild (as a way to spend one’s time). I’ll admit I fast forwarded quite a bit to get the gist of it.


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## Soundbed (Aug 15, 2021)

mikeh-375 said:


> I quite like using or inventing synthetic scales, even scales over more than one octave. The fun starts when you then make up some new vertical chord structures and plane them across the scale. Going further, you can apply many common practice techniques too like enharmonic modulation, key(!!) changes, modal shifts, mirror inversions of chords and so on. The sonic possibilities are endless and yet have a solid foundation of control one can refer to no matter the complexity of language.
> 
> There is inevitably almost too much material generated and only a fraction of it will get used but establishing parameters like this is a damn fine search tool I've found, with options galore.


I understand all the words you’re using. But I’m a little perplexed on how to use scales that span an interval larger than an octave.


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## Soundbed (Aug 15, 2021)

Ricgus3 said:


> Nice! You are spot on! After all these sales I really need to learn new skills and actually use all my stuff i bought now instead of just reading about opinions on sample libraries! Great addition! The orchestral recepies also peaked my interest!



These are great starters. I’m actually looking for more development techniques. Personally.


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## Zedcars (Aug 15, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I understand all the words you’re using. But I’m a little perplexed on how to use scales that span an interval larger than an octave.


As I understand it, suppose the scale encompasses 2 octaves, there may be a couple of ways to go about this:

1. Think of pairs of octaves and keep the scale strictly to C-2—B-1, C0—B1, C2—B3, C4—B5, C6—B7 etc (or the pairs shifted up or down an octave to better fit the instrumentation).

2. Allow the 2 octave scale to be much more fluid and mixed between instruments, and/or within the same instrument across the piece. This would provide more interesting colours and the potential for tasty dissonance.

There may be more. I don’t think there are necessarily any rules here, just experiment and see what works.


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## mikrokosmiko (Aug 15, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Here’s a list I found tonight, sparked some ideas for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I disagree with almost all of them.

(the waltz is difficult to dance??? Because two legs but three beats? 🙄)


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## mikeh-375 (Aug 16, 2021)

@Soundbed

As Darren (@Zedcars ) suggests, experimentation is the key here - lateral thinking. It's all about finding parameters to work in that will stimulate invention and provide material with a degree of control to fall back on - a foundation.

A 2 octave scale might comprise of say 6 notes in the first octave and maybe just 3 (or any number of course) in the next, ie the scale spans something more like a 12th rather than 2 octaves, although a true 2 octave scale is of course possible as are notes duplicated in both octaves if you wish. The scale could be used melodically but the relationships between the notes horizontally and how they are stacked vertically will probably be more fertile for raw material. Obviously It's best to keep the notes in their own designated octave spaces rather than compressing them into a single octave.

There are sometimes issues in the planing of similarly stacked chords in synthetic scales, but one can overcome them with chromatic alterations and artistic licence if need be, which can have the added bonus of then leading to new areas to play in.

If you think of ideas like this as search tools, you will soon find yourself inundated with material that's potentially useable. Try something like this....

Write/invent an unusual scale - it doesn't have to be 2 octaves of course - create a chord with your own vertical spacings (4 notes is always good), plane those chords across the scale (when you come to an interval in the chord that can't be replicated due to the intervallic nature of the scale, either go to the nearest scale member and use that or find the exact tone needed to plane accurately and use that, even if it is not part of the scale).
Find a new chord shape (vertically) and repeat the process. Do this several times and then start playing/improvising with the chords, putting them in differing orders, spacings, inversions, mirrored versions etc. etc..

Once comfortable with them, why not try applying some common practice concepts perhaps. Enharmonically change a few notes in chords and resolve them in a different manner, away from the scale. Or transpose the original scale and write out all of the chords again. Alter a few notes in the scale to change its mode. Look for the common tones between differing scales and use them to shift between different zones and ....etc..etc...etc. Think laterally, there are no rules at this stage only those you made that helped you find an idea perhaps, or rules required to encompass any ideas you find in an intelligible, logical and ultimately inevitable way.


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## Soundbed (Aug 28, 2021)

Hey Everyone, I came across this video on modes today. Okay, YouTube put it in my face. I’ve never seen this teacher before. But she was teaching at a Victor Wooten camp and has a couple hundred thousand subscribers. So I’m guessing her channel has other good content as well.
On the one hand modes are pretty basic, from a theory perspective, but the way she described how to use them makes things feel a lot more practical. Those who feel they’ve already mastered modes might get less out of this one but others might finally feel more comfortable with modes after watching this.


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