# Please have a listen: "Swinging down the Avenue" [EIS]



## Blackster (Apr 11, 2010)

Hi folks,

I want to share a little tune with you. I wrote it for the last assignment in BookIX (EIS).
I hope you like it, any feedback is appreciated. 

http://www.audiovibes-studios.com/downloads/Frank_Herrlinger_-_Swinging_down_the_Avenue.mp3 (Swinging down the Avenue)

Here are the libraries I used:
- AGC 2009
- RealGuitar
- Trilogy
- Stormdrum 1
- Ethno World 4
- Hollywood Winds
- The Trumpet
- LASS

o-[][]-o


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## Danny_Owen (Apr 12, 2010)

That was very cool, loved it.


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## Blackster (Apr 12, 2010)

Thanks Danny


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## Steve Crawford Composer (Apr 12, 2010)

Very nice composition. The guitars sound great and so do the strings. Yet more evidence that makes me want LASS!


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## Blackster (Apr 13, 2010)

Thanks Steve, regarding LASS ... just let me say: Go get it !!


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## Rob (Apr 13, 2010)

very nice. 
Drums are a bit mechanical... 
Gotta get Lass soon or later...


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## Blackster (Apr 13, 2010)

Thanks Rob, yes, you are right about the drums. I need to get more life in those. Thanks for listening!


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## mverta (Apr 13, 2010)

Forgive my ignorance about EIS, but the chord progressions seem to me to be almost random - almost as though they're just trying to be non-standard. Perhaps this is the intent of the exercise, but I can't "lock on" to your piece. "Hip vocabulary; no idea what you're talking about" sorta thing. 

My personal approach to consonance and dissonance is to give the listener enough things predictable and familiar to create a comfort zone and build confidence in the work, so that the unusual and different things are as fun as they are challenging when they come.

Again, I'm loathe to say much without understanding the intent of this exercise, but I thought you might like to know that my initial impression was one of disorientation. I think production-wise you're doing great. Thanks for sharing.


_Mike


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## adrianallan (Apr 13, 2010)

Having read the above post, I was expecting to hear something seriously atonal !

But my fears were allayed when I listened and generally thought that this was quite a pleasant melody in an old fashioned style. Maybe the unprepared modulations were the issue, but I wasn't too offended by these.

I couldn't place the style and it's frustrating me - I could only think of swing in a sort of Henry Mancini mode. Could you enlighten us ?


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## mverta (Apr 13, 2010)

Mmmm.... bars 5-8 have some... _interesting_ harmonic motion in there, by any standard.


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## lux (Apr 13, 2010)

i think i share Mike's impressions.

Productionally is pretty cool. Harmonically i have the impression youre keeping too many horizontal fixed notes goin on, so that the harmonical changes do not sound rich enough and do not paint the harmony in a clear fashion to the listener. Basically i think youre moving not enough voices here. I think its an easy fix with a piano roll or whatever u use for that.

This opinion of course pays the due to the fact i think youre talented and have high expectations.

Luca


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## Blackster (Apr 13, 2010)

Hi Mike,

thanks for your reply. To clarify, the assignment was just to write a theme. There's nothing said about harmonic structure at this point - so in result I'm carrying the whole responsibility of the harmony  

But yes, my personal approach was to escape from the diatonic structure at some points. You mentioned a good example, bars 5-8 are not typical when writing in a key (in my case it was G major). And no, these chords are not chosen randomly. Maybe I put a bit too much "salt in the soup"  but you mentioned a good point (creating a comfort zone for the listener) and I understand that. So I take your advice to heart and try to dose the amount of non-diatonic writing a bit more carefully. o/~ 

@Lux: thanks for listening. Mmmhh, I intended to move all voices but just on small steps ... I need to re-think your advise, but many thanks for that so far!


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## synergy543 (Apr 13, 2010)

Frank I enjoyed your piece for its "unconventionalness" although I can also understand the comments over the harmonic confusion.

@Mike + Luca, - I don't know anything about EIS although my curiosity led me to discover one of the coolest Jazz albums I've ever heard. Not sure if its indicative of what's taught with the EIS course but I sure like it.

http://www.amazon.com/Gone-Woodwinds-Lyle-Murphy/dp/B000000ZB7/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1271183147&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Gone-Woodwinds-Ly ... 147&amp;sr=8-1)


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## Nino Rajacic (Apr 13, 2010)

Fun piece. Maybe some harmonies aren't what we would except for this style, but it sounds ok for me. I doubt regular listener would notice this and that it would distract him from enjoying the tune. I agree with Luca that more counter melody movement could bring to the piece. 

Good job


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## rayinstirling (Apr 14, 2010)

I've listened to this cue quite a few times now and I'm sorry but I just don't get it.

I'm immediately reminded of "Band in a Box" on every play.

Can someone explain the error of my ears here or must I live in this unenlightened state for the rest of my life?


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## Lex (Apr 14, 2010)

...think it would work great in a Jennifer Aniston movie...

aLex


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## Blackster (Apr 14, 2010)

Hi Raymond, 

I'm sorry I confused your ears. I guess you have a deep understanding of jazz and your background is working as a live musician for many years. So I assume you have a lot of experience in "what is usual". 

Maybe that fact causes your "ear error". Of course, I could have written this piece just in a diatonic way without leaving that path. But my personal approach is always to create music for customers, not for composers. But I've posted this piece in order to get feedback from composers because composers are always faced with creating something new on the one hand but it should sound kind of familiar on the other hand, so you have to borrow the cliché. Now what does that mean specifically? 

From 0:00-0:08 these chord progression is nothing special so far, should sound familiar, right?
From 0:09-0:16 here I leave the diatonic way in order to get some attention from the listener, these chords are unexpected (at least I hope they were) but there are not so far away from the key that anybody would call them atonal. Btw the theme line is completely diatonic and shall hold the piece together (at least that was my intention).
From 0:16-0:18 I harmonized the pick-ups with a descending bass line A to Ab to G which is nothing unusual, I guess
From 0:30-0:34 Again I used a descending bass line F to E stopping on Eb7(-5) which I use as a dominant in order to lead into the next part which is based on Ab
From 0:35-0:47 complete diatonic writing in the key of Ab
From 0:47-0:51 Again a descending bass line from F to E to Eb to D using the D as what I call a "Split-Octave-Chord" (D in the bass; Eb, Gb, C = Ab7 in the treble) => this chord leads into G where my theme is based on
From 1:33-end a chromatic bass line going up from G7 to Ab7 to Am7. From here it's a normal II-V-I ending except I go into the last chord chromatically from Bb to A to Ab to G .....

Was that helpful and are you enlightened right now? Or did I create an even bigger error in your head? :wink:


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## Danny_Owen (Apr 14, 2010)

> ...think it would work great in a Jennifer Aniston movie...
> 
> aLex



I was thinking along the lines of rom com as well, though I was thinking of Jim Carey for some reason... well, they have starred in a film together!


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## rJames (Apr 14, 2010)

mverta @ Tue Apr 13 said:


> Forgive my ignorance about EIS, but the chord progressions seem to me to be almost random - almost as though they're just trying to be non-standard. Perhaps this is the intent of the exercise, but I can't "lock on" to your piece. "Hip vocabulary; no idea what you're talking about" sorta thing.
> 
> My personal approach to consonance and dissonance is to give the listener enough things predictable and familiar to create a comfort zone and build confidence in the work, so that the unusual and different things are as fun as they are challenging when they come.
> 
> ...



Most of the audience was "disoriented" when first listening to Stravinski as well (not to say Frank is, yet, a Stravinski). IMHO one of the basic goals of EIS is to come at music from a totally different perspective than that of the evolved norm.

Honestly, I felt the same way as Mike here. Kinda like random floating... which might be good for a movie scene where you want that typical off kilter romantic haven't-quite-figured-out-what's-going-on-here, I-might-be-a-little-drunk-or-high-on-nitrous oxide kinda vibe.

The key for me and other EIS students is to be able to weave the somewhat effortless moving through music with the expectations of the audience. The V-I relationship is part of the "natural" evolution of music because it may very well be "instinctual" in the lexicon of communication that is music. a la Bernstein's Harvard lecture, "The Unanswered Question."

I am still struggling with audience expectations because I didn't start with the classical musical education.

@ Frank. Keep up the good work.


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## Frederick Russ (Apr 14, 2010)

Nice writing as always, Frank. Some really nice moments.

I believe an important consideration in this particular case is striking and nailing a good balance between dissonance (tension) and consonance (resolution). Acclimating the audience gradually to the ear bending - that you as an EIS student had already undergone - may require at times to just "playing it straight" first and giving melody a chance to stick. You may need to extend that process. You can always use re-harmonizing as a building feature and alternate between straight and re-harmonizing techniques as an emotional tool. Directors seem to focus on emotions creatively so its a matter of finding the "emotional flow" of your cue - keeping what helps relay the story the cue is telling and removing what does not.


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## rayinstirling (Apr 14, 2010)

Frank,

You've tried hard to explain what your goal is with this cue and I appreciate you taking the time but, I don't deserve it. I'm not an expert on any genre and especially not jazz.
My years as a performer have been specifically targeted at pleasing the customer.
As a listener of music I try hard to be no more than a prospective customer so when I say "I don't get it" this opinion is based solely on whether I'm entertained, inspired, moved emotionally etc etc. There is no questioning of EIS in my text, and there are many cues I've listened to presented here by EIS students of which I greatly appreciated. Your cue simply isn't one of them and probably, Frederick has got closest to explaining why that might be.

Maybe I'm wrong but I've just got this feeling of pressure from the EIS group closing ranks. It reminds me a little of what complaining about GPO is like on Gary's forum.


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## Craig Sharmat (Apr 14, 2010)

Ray,

there are 2 posts here from people who have dabbled in EIS to one who is advanced through a good part of the course (not counting Frank). their opinions were in line with the non EIS people. There were parts they enjoyed and other things that left them wanting, usually the same thing. If this was the GPO forum all would have loved it and there would be sugar plums and lollipops dropping from the heavens.


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## Blackster (Apr 15, 2010)

rayinstirling @ Thu Apr 15 said:


> Craig Sharmat @ Thu Apr 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Ray,
> ...



Seriously, I don't get you. But anyway, wish you fun, too.


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## ChrisAxia (Apr 15, 2010)

Well, I'm not one who usually likes things too far away from 'normality' but I think it's great! Very refreshing chord sequences/harmonies. Loved it!!

~Chris


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## nikolas (Apr 17, 2010)

I have to admit that I was also expecting something "less ordinary" (through my very academic view unfortunately) and I couldn't find it.

I found some very interesting chord progressions in there, but they all work fine, and plus they all sounded 'resolved' in the end. 

I think that the drums are what makes the whole thing sound a bit 'generic' (in terms of production). It almost sounds like a loop...

But composition wise I liked it very much, cause indeed, it did sound somewhat fresh in an idiom which one shouldn't expect too much (don't shoot me for this... :D)

Thanks for sharing as always!


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