# Any plugins that specialise in making something sound very distant?



## WinterEmerald (Apr 19, 2022)

I've been going through the motions of trying to make some audio sound very distant, using reverb, EQing, delay, volume...you name it. Just wondering if there're plugins that can help me with this; dedicated to this task. 

Thanks


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Apr 19, 2022)

There are a few:









Proximity | Tokyo Dawn Records


A distance pan pot offering intuitive access to psychoacoustic models. Finalist of the KVR Developer Contest '12.




www.tokyodawn.net










Auburn Sounds - Panagement, free reverb audio plug-in







www.auburnsounds.com





I can recommend Mike Verta's course on Template Balancing also.
He talks quite a bit about how to make low and high cut with EQ to move things back / further away.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Apr 19, 2022)

This is the one I referred to above:









TEMPLATE BALANCING - Mike Verta


To be most useful, our virtual orchestras need to behave like real ones. With a properly balanced template, real-world orchestrations […]




mikeverta.com


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## Kabraxis (Apr 19, 2022)

We're dealing with distant sounds in Game Audio all the time, so I had to say you are asking for an immense amount of knowledge. But I'll give it a go.

In layman's terms, a "distant sound" needs two main effects: Filtering - absorption of high and low frequencies in the air over distance. And Reflections (echoes, reverbs). There's no place in the world that doesn't have an echo, so that's important.

So you simply need to apply a filter to the sound source, then add some reverb on it. Often times, it's a good idea to remove "Dry" signal from the Reverb as the distance increases. A good knowledge here could be reading some more about "Early Reflections" as it's the most convincing part of a reverb.

My own workflow consists of a smooth filtering with Apple 2-Pass LP Filter and using a good outdoor Impulse Response (recorded reverb) with ReaVerb. Both plugins are included free in Reaper, but you might need some good IRs. You'll also need a final EQ to shave of extra frequencies in that chain.

Here's a commercial filtering effect that simulates real Air coefficents:








Air Plugin


Air simulates the natural dampening that happens to higher frequencies from sounds as they travel through air.




soundparticles.com





And here's a full suite that could help with "making it coming from the other room"








Indoor


acoustics for Post




www.audioease.com





Also, I find Virtual Sound Stage 2 to be very successful in positioning sounds in concert rooms if you need that:





parallax-audio







www.parallax-audio.com





Some crazy good outdoor IRs:








Outdoor Impulse Responses | BOOM Library







www.boomlibrary.com





Another good technique would be placing speakers in the real world and recording them from distance. That's called "Worldizing" and being done a lot in movies.


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## JimDiGritz (Apr 19, 2022)

Panagement https://www.auburnsounds.com/products/Panagement.html let's you 'place' a sound in a virtual space (there's a free edition)

If you're looking for very precise location have you looked at: https://www.eventideaudio.com/plug-ins/precision-time-align/ ?


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## WindcryMusic (Apr 19, 2022)

Another option is Precedence by 2C Audio:

https://www.2caudio.com/products/precedence#_Overview

One interesting thing about this one is if you couple it with their Breeze reverb plugin, the two can work as a unit for setting instrument position.


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## WinterEmerald (Apr 19, 2022)

Kabraxis said:


> We're dealing with distant sounds in Game Audio all the time, so I had to say you are asking for an immense amount of knowledge. But I'll give it a go.
> 
> In layman's terms, a "distant sound" needs two main effects: Filtering - absorption of high and low frequencies in the air over distance. And Reflections (echoes, reverbs). There's no place in the world that doesn't have an echo, so that's important.
> 
> ...



Thanks so much for all of this


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## WinterEmerald (Apr 19, 2022)

and thank you to everyone else too


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## GtrString (Apr 19, 2022)

Reverbs


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## youngpokie (Apr 19, 2022)

Kabraxis said:


> In layman's terms, a "distant sound" needs two main effects: Filtering - absorption of high and low frequencies in the air over distance. And Reflections (echoes, reverbs). There's no place in the world that doesn't have an echo, so that's important.


What about Spat? The Ultimate version is super expensive, but I downloaded a trial last week and it seems pretty incredible so far... I wonder if there are alternatives to Spat that are more budget friendly


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## Kabraxis (Apr 19, 2022)

youngpokie said:


> What about Spat? The Ultimate version is super expensive, but I downloaded a trial last week and it seems pretty incredible so far... I wonder if there are alternatives to Spat that are more budget friendly


That would be an overkill for what @WinterEmerald asks for. Besides, I'm not sure Spat has a tool for distancing sound sources built in.

Spat is more suitable for post-production for surround movies or working on Ambisonics. To be honest, I think it's not expensive, it's overpriced... 



WindcryMusic said:


> Another option is Precedence by 2C Audio:
> 
> https://www.2caudio.com/products/precedence#_Overview
> 
> One interesting thing about this one is if you couple it with their Breeze reverb plugin, the two can work as a unit for setting instrument position.


I could never ever get my head around those two VSTs. There are too much options around and not enough presets for my use cases. I'd like to watch some good tutorials on them if there's any.


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## RogiervG (Apr 19, 2022)

VSL MIR  (you can place the source very far from the mic, and you can position the mic as you wish within the room)


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## Russell Anderson (Apr 20, 2022)

WindcryMusic said:


> Another option is Precedence by 2C Audio:
> 
> https://www.2caudio.com/products/precedence#_Overview
> 
> One interesting thing about this one is if you couple it with their Breeze reverb plugin, the two can work as a unit for setting instrument position.


Now is not the best time to buy from 2cAudio... check here and on KVR for... a public developer feud which is basically jeopardizing the company at the moment


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## Russell Anderson (Apr 20, 2022)

At the same time, if you like their products, now may be the best time to buy, if you want them to stay around.


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## b_elliott (Apr 20, 2022)

In case you have the Waves Manny Marroquin Reverb there are presets for _TV Next Door_ or _Distant Drums_. Worth a check of your stash to see if there already is a preset for your needs. Panagement free also a good choice.


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## youngpokie (Apr 20, 2022)

Kabraxis said:


> Besides, I'm not sure Spat has a tool for distancing sound sources built in.


There is a knob for setting the distance of the sound source, the angle of projection, the elevation from the plane, the size of the sound cone - but also knobs for perceived presence of source vs presence of room, etc. It's quite overwhelming, actually.

It's only been less than a week playing around with Spat for me, but using it with modelled instruments like SWAM woodwinds feels literally like magic. That's why I am curious if there is another tool like this, the only one I know is VSS which feels very primitive compared to Spat.


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## WindcryMusic (Apr 20, 2022)

Russell Anderson said:


> Now is not the best time to buy from 2cAudio... check here and on KVR for... a public developer feud which is basically jeopardizing the company at the moment


Unfortunate. I didn’t know anything about that until now … and after reading the vitriol on KVR, I kind of wish I still didn’t know. However, speaking for myself only, this dispute doesn’t make the plugins of theirs that I already own any less usable for the foreseeable future, so I‘ll continue to use them.


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## Russell Anderson (Apr 20, 2022)

youngpokie said:


> There is a knob for setting the distance of the sound source, the angle of projection, the elevation from the plane, the size of the sound cone - but also knobs for perceived presence of source vs presence of room, etc. It's quite overwhelming, actually.


you can't tell me this kind of stuff, or I'll go missing!


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## youngpokie (Apr 20, 2022)

Russell Anderson said:


> you can't tell me this kind of stuff, or I'll go missing!


I know right? There is also an "Essential" version in existence that's $360 but the limit is 32 sound sources. The ultimate version is $1900 and unlimited sources. 

In the trial I'm using, I first had each SWAM instrument positioned individually with an individual Spat plugin instance - 3 Flutes, 3 Oboes, 3 Clarinets = 9 sources. My template is several hundred instruments, each as a single source. 

So I'm now going to try using Spat Essential and put plug in instances on groups (all flutes = 1 source) to reduce count to 32 and see if I can get the same level of detail and flexibility. I fear I'm hopelessly hooked...


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## nuyo (Apr 20, 2022)

Cut the Mid Channel around 200 to 1000 maybe a Low Pass Filter after that and some Reverb.


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## gsilbers (Apr 20, 2022)

WinterEmerald said:


> I've been going through the motions of trying to make some audio sound very distant, using reverb, EQing, delay, volume...you name it. Just wondering if there're plugins that can help me with this; dedicated to this task.
> 
> Thanks


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## Russell Anderson (Apr 20, 2022)

youngpokie said:


> I know right? There is also an "Essential" version in existence that's $360 but the limit is 32 sound sources. The ultimate version is $1900 and unlimited sources.
> 
> In the trial I'm using, I first had each SWAM instrument positioned individually with an individual Spat plugin instance - 3 Flutes, 3 Oboes, 3 Clarinets = 9 sources. My template is several hundred instruments, each as a single source.
> 
> So I'm now going to try using Spat Essential and put plug in instances on groups (all flutes = 1 source) to reduce count to 32 and see if I can get the same level of detail and flexibility. I fear I'm hopelessly hooked...


Is Verb V3 basically built into Spat? As in the full version (clusters included) but built into SPAT Essentials, where it's just an input limit of 32? Because I might sell IRCAM Verb... ...and _eventually_ maybe get this SPAT thing... once I can trust I will still be able to come out of my bedroom and live


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## Markrs (Apr 20, 2022)

youngpokie said:


> What about Spat? The Ultimate version is super expensive, but I downloaded a trial last week and it seems pretty incredible so far... I wonder if there are alternatives to Spat that are more budget friendly


Not sure if SPARTA is similar or not but it is free and open source:









Spatial Audio Real-Time Applications


A collection of open-source VST audio plug-ins for producing and reproducing spatial sound scenes.




leomccormack.github.io










There is also IEM Plugin Suite 









IEM Audioplugins / IEMPluginSuite


iem development area




git.iem.at


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## doctoremmet (Apr 20, 2022)

VSL MIR Pro and MIR Pro 24


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## lokotus (Apr 20, 2022)

try using only early reflection from Bricasti M7 (or 7 Heaven Professional). 
Or use Early Reflection from Illusion or Cinematic Rooms. 
That will make something very distant, without colouring it much if you are looking for that sound...


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## youngpokie (Apr 21, 2022)

Markrs said:


> Not sure if SPARTA is similar or not but it is free and open source:


Thank you for this! I'll investigate it

EDIT: The IEM suite, from just superficial reading and browsing, seems like the most Spat-like alternatives in the sense that it's using many of the same parameters (azimuth, etc).


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## R10k (Apr 21, 2022)

Yesterday while grabbing the free Energy Panner from Soundparticles, I noticed this.









Air Plugin


Air simulates the natural dampening that happens to higher frequencies from sounds as they travel through air.




soundparticles.com





Pretty sure I'll be picking it up at some point...


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## Markrs (Apr 21, 2022)

R10k said:


> Yesterday while grabbing the free Energy Panner from Soundparticles, I noticed this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Air is only $27.60 on ADSR









Air - ADSR Sounds


Air is the perfect tool to simulate distance through high frequency attenuation. Let instruments breathe with this ready to go plugin. Quickly reinvent sound effects by adding depth and distance to your sounds. No need to record everything all over again. Use it on any DAW.




www.adsrsounds.com





You can also get it with Doppler for $67.20
https://www.adsrsounds.com/product/software/sound-particles-doppler-air-multi-fx-doppler/
Plus you get the NoiseAsh Pultec clone free


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## Markrs (Apr 21, 2022)

Would dearVR PRO potentially work? This can be bought for $31 via the Forever 29 1 month subscription deal.









Dear Reality dearVR PRO


The most comprehensive 3D audio solution for sound designers and music professionals in the VR/AR industry.




www.plugin-alliance.com






Dear Reality’s state-of-the-art algorithms have been a mainstay of 3D audio production for years. Now, their spatial processing treasure chest is available in an all-in-one plugin for your DAW: the fully featured dearVR PRO and it’s smaller counterpart dearVR MUSIC which is aimed at more traditional mixing workflows.

Say goodbye to expensive middleware, unwieldy software bundles and complex routing schemes. All the tools you need to create stunning, immersive 3D and surround audio for virtual reality (VR) and augmented reality (AR) videos, immersive music, videos, film post-production and games are included in dearVR’s powerful yet fast and intuitive interface. Simply drag your mouse around using the plugin’s graphical XYZ pad to position a track’s sound anywhere in a 3D soundstage — behind or in front of the listener, above or below their head, to the left or right, closer or farther away. Or use separate sliders for adjusting the sound’s elevation, azimuth and distance from the listener.

dearVR PRO provides 46 vivid virtual acoustic environments, featuring true to life 3D imaging and gorgeous sounding environments to place your sounds and then move them around in real time. Among the many selections to choose from are concert halls, car interiors, different types of rooms, a church, cellar, staircase, bathroom, booth, warehouse, arena, outdoor street and live stage. Each environment is instantly and independently recallable per plugin instance, letting you place each object’s sound in a different space.

You can change the shape, dimensions and texture of your selected virtual space using controls that adjust the size, damping, and balance of early reflections and reverb diffusion. In Realtime Auralization mode, turn six knobs to respectively adjust the distance from the listener of the four walls, ceiling and floor in your virtual space. As you move your sound around to match an onscreen object’s movement, the delay times and directions of arrival for early reflections bouncing off these virtual boundaries change—just like in real environments.

dearVR PRO outputs the highest-quality 3D and surround sound audio in over 30+ formats, ranging from standard two channel stereo and all the way up to 13.1 surround sound. With Dear Reality’s dearVR PRO you will easily meet all of the professional requirements for any VR or AR production.
For those who don’t need all the firepower dearVR PRO offers, a streamlined version of the plugin—dearVR MUSIC—is available for entry-level applications. But for professionals working in VR and AR who need no-compromise, state-of-the-art performance with all of the workflow advantages of a self-contained plugin, dearVR PRO is the ultimate solution.

Please note: dearVR PRO is enabled to be controlled by the groundbreaking dearVR SPATIAL CONNECT software to mix within VR and conduct each dearVR PRO tracks position, level and room preset by hand-gestures.


2-channel Binaural format for totally immersive playback using conventional headphones
4-channel first order (FOA), 9-channel second order (SOA) or 16-channel third order Ambisonics (TOA) output in either AmbiX or Furse Malham (FuMA) formats
With the release of the 1.4 Update to dearVR PRO and dearVR MUSIC, you can now select from over 20+ surround sound outputs: from LCRS, 5.1, 7.1, 9.1 and all the way up to 13.1!
The plugin’s 46 stellar virtual acoustic environments can also be used like conventional reverbs in 2D stereo mixes, doubling their usefulness for music production.
State-of-the-art processing turns any standard mix into an immersive, true to life 3D soundscape with binaural, Ambisonic and Surround Sound playback
All processors are contained in a single plugin allowing you to output in either 5.1 and up to 13.1 along with the standard binaural, ambisonic and stereo output options
Position and move an object’s sound in real time in a virtual 3D environment using a graphical XYZ pad or separate sliders for adjusting the sound’s azimuth, elevation and distance to the listener
Adjust the size of virtual environments by balancing early reflections and reverb diffusion response; and distance of walls, ceiling and floor to listener
Powerful Realtime Auralization mode continually changes the delay times and directions of arrival for early reflections as you move an object’s sound around in its virtual space
Occlusion control realistically adjusts the sound of an object being blocked by another virtual object in line of sight to the listener
Separate controls scale parameter ranges for azimuth and distance to maintain perfect sync between audio and corresponding virtual objects in motion


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## R10k (Apr 21, 2022)

It's probably also worth mentioning that Inspirata Personal (and Pro) are on sale at the moment, and make placing things in a 3D hall very easy... and from what I've seen, in a much more detailed way compared to dearVR Pro. That said, if you need surround, the Pro version 'aint cheap. The downloads are also pretty large for this, and I'm sure it wouldn't be light on the cpu...






JRRshop.com | Manufacturers


Shop by Brands, Shop by Manufacturers




www.jrrshop.com




(code FORUM also works here)


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## doctoremmet (Apr 21, 2022)

Markrs said:


> Would dearVR PRO potentially work? This can be bought for $31 via the Forever 29 1 month subscription deal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Absolutely. Practically made for jobs like this


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## Markrs (Apr 21, 2022)

R10k said:


> It's probably also worth mentioning that Inspirata Personal (and Pro) are on sale at the moment, and make placing things in a 3D hall very easy... and from what I've seen, in a much more detailed way compared to dearVR Pro. That said, if you need surround, the Pro version 'aint cheap. The downloads are also pretty large for this, and I'm sure it wouldn't be light on the cpu...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Use code Group for even lower price.

EDIT: Group code is disabled for these products but as you mentioned Forum still works

I have the Personal edition but haven't got around to using it (it was 70% off the upgrade price from the Lite version at one point, but they haven't reapeted the deal since)


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## Russell Anderson (Apr 21, 2022)

I haven't downloaded Inspirata yet, and I've had it for like 4 months now o_o that's been how it is recently. Personally so far my ear likes MIR better than Inspirata... but once they get the directionality and multimicing (and workflow improvements) integrated, it might be a tough contender for MIR.

I can only assume using the ERs from Cinematic Rooms provides some of the same level of depth Alan likes getting from 2016SR, considering the ERs are the strongest part of CRP (imo) and I've also personally found it both pretty transparent and effective for depth-ing a sound at very high wetness values. I think anything with some advanced ERs does a good job.


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## JohnG (Apr 21, 2022)

WinterEmerald said:


> using reverb, EQing, delay, volume..


Start with the furthest-distant mic positions


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## WinterEmerald (Apr 24, 2022)

JohnG said:


> Start with the furthest-distant mic positions


This wasn't applicable otherwise I would've done it from the very beginning!

Thanks everyone for wanting to help in the thread.


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## applegrovebard (Apr 24, 2022)

Here's a free plugin that may be of interest:


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