# Cubase disc cache spike NIGHTMARE



## tarantulis (Oct 22, 2020)

About a month ago I began experiencing a bizarre issue in Cubase. If an audio track exists in Cubase (even an empty session, even if it's not record-enabled), my disc cache meter spikes any time I move the locator forward/backward or anywhere on the transport timeline. This occurs when any audio driver is selected, even the Generic Low-Latency Audio Driver. Only when "no driver" is selected does the issue go away.

I should note that I'm not experiencing this with Ableton, which lives on the same PC. It seems Cubase-specific.

I'm a professional composer and my PC is a custom-build designed specifically for running Cubase (see specs below). The creator of the PC has even remoted in to check the drives and performance--the PC is not the issue.

I just got off the phone with Steinberg support and NO, this is NOT normal behavior.

They had me try several things, from clearing the preferences to updating my graphics card, to saving projects on separate internal SSDs, trying different audio interfaces/drivers, reinstalling Cubase 10, updating to 10.5...nothing helps. Steinberg has now submitted my issue to the development team because they are baffled.

Before I throw my DAW out the window, has anyone been able to resolve this issue?

Any help would be majorly appreciated...I've lost 2 weeks of work at this point and will have to stop using Cubase for good if the issue persists.


Specs:

WIN 10 (Build 18362) 64-bit SSD (+5 internal SSDs)
i7-5820k CPU @ 3.3 GHz, 3301 Mhz, 6 cores, 12 logical processors
ASRock X99 Extreme4
64 GB RAM
GeForce GTX 1650 4GB Graphics Card


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Oct 22, 2020)

Have you tried changing the project location to a different drive?


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## tarantulis (Oct 22, 2020)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Have you tried changing the project location to a different drive?



Yep, on all my internal SSDs.


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## zvenx (Oct 22, 2020)

Do you perchance have a Blackmagic card? I have been having some spikes in real time monitor asio meter that i have narrowed down to my Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro card.
rsp


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## tarantulis (Oct 22, 2020)

zvenx said:


> Do you perchance have a Blackmagic card? I have been having some spikes in real time monitor asio meter that i have narrowed down to my Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro card.
> rsp



No, I don't.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 23, 2020)

Have you tried pulling out all your RAM and trying one stick at a time?

never mind, I see Live works for you. 

Do you have any previous versions of Cubase? I would be a little curious if one of those would work for you, then you’d have it narrowed down to 10xxx. I think your 10 license allows you to dL previous versions.


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## Paul Jelfs (Oct 23, 2020)

This might be a silly question , but in this empty template do you have a Tempo MAP Enabled - even if there is hardly any changes in there - Mine would Stutter and peak out where the first tempo change was - so i had to shift my starting point to bar 5- and have ever since. 

Probably not that, but just in case worth checking if TEMPO is activated. 

Another thing you could do is run Latency Mon for 15 minutes and see if there are any weird drivers causing issues with audio play back. 

Good luck getting it sorted.


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## Paul Jelfs (Oct 23, 2020)

Also Nvidia drivers can sometimes be a bit iffy and cause problems. Has the issue started since you updated Nvidia drivers? Might be worth rolling back and seeing if that helps. 

What PCIE cards do you have installed ? And what Audio Interface are you using ?


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## Paul Jelfs (Oct 23, 2020)

Also, another thing worth checking is, after Window updates - Sometimes it changes your power plan back from the custom one to Balanced or Low Power. Worth checking your Audio one is definitely active.


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## Uiroo (Oct 23, 2020)

Looks like we have a similar, if not the same issue:





Cubase freezing after every playback


Hey, cubase is freezing for a few seconds everytime I stop playback. Really puzzling, has anyone encountered this before? edit: I noticed, I get a real-time peak everytime it happens,what could that mean? also disk-cache maxes out everytime that happens. Not enough ram?




vi-control.net




I also get the disc spikes, but everytime it happens I also get a 5 second freeze.
It doesn't happen at all if I turn ASIO-Guard off.
If it's on it's impossible to get any work done, it's that bad.

I'm on Cubase 9 and specs are:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti
Intel Core i7-6700 3.40GHz
32gb RAM
64-bit OS 

with ASIO MADIface USB driver, interface is RME Fireface UFX+


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## tarantulis (Oct 23, 2020)

NYC Composer said:


> Have you tried pulling out all your RAM and trying one stick at a time?
> 
> never mind, I see Live works for you.
> 
> Do you have any previous versions of Cubase? I would be a little curious if one of those would work for you, then you’d have it narrowed down to 10xxx. I think your 10 license allows you to dL previous versions.



Thanks for the suggestions!

-I've not tried pulling out the RAM. I just texted Jim (who built the PC), I'll see what he says and report back.

-I downgraded to 9.5 and the issue persists.

Thanks again!


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## tarantulis (Oct 23, 2020)

Paul Jelfs said:


> This might be a silly question , but in this empty template do you have a Tempo MAP Enabled - even if there is hardly any changes in there - Mine would Stutter and peak out where the first tempo change was - so i had to shift my starting point to bar 5- and have ever since.
> 
> Probably not that, but just in case worth checking if TEMPO is activated.
> 
> ...



Hi Paul,

I've tried disabling the tempo map, and it doesn't help sadly.

I also ran LatencyMon for 15+ minutes, here's what the report looks like:






Does this seem normal?


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## tarantulis (Oct 23, 2020)

Paul Jelfs said:


> Also Nvidia drivers can sometimes be a bit iffy and cause problems. Has the issue started since you updated Nvidia drivers? Might be worth rolling back and seeing if that helps.
> 
> What PCIE cards do you have installed ? And what Audio Interface are you using ?



-After upgrading to the new video card (with Nvidia drivers), the issue persisted, so I've reverted back to the original video card which does not use Nvidia drivers.

-I had a Firewire PCIE card installed for my Saffire, but today I tried using a Scarlett USB interface (plugged directly into the built-in USB 3.0 ports)--the issue persisted. Doesn't seem to be the ports or the audio interface, sadly...



Paul Jelfs said:


> Also, another thing worth checking is, after Window updates - Sometimes it changes your power plan back from the custom one to Balanced or Low Power. Worth checking your Audio one is definitely active.



-My performance settings were set to High Performance, nothing looks out of the ordinary.

-I'm doing a fresh re-install of Windows 10 right now, hopefully this solves the issue.

In the meantime, here's a video of both scenarios (empty project + small project) for reference:

View attachment Cubase issues.mp4


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## Uiroo (Oct 23, 2020)

Ok, that does look different than my issue. 
Just curious, does turning off ASIO-Guard help?


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## tarantulis (Oct 23, 2020)

Uiroo said:


> Ok, that does look different than my issue.
> Just curious, does turning off ASIO-Guard help?



Nope. I also tried changing the disc preload time and buffer size.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 23, 2020)

Sorry man. Frustrating. I hope you can get it sorted.


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## tarantulis (Oct 23, 2020)

NYC Composer said:


> Sorry man. Frustrating. I hope you can get it sorted.



Thanks man. Can't tell you how much I appreciate all the input from everyone. Great community here


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## zvenx (Oct 24, 2020)

What USB devices do you use on the machine?
rsp


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## Paul Jelfs (Oct 24, 2020)

Does the project above use many different Drives ? Like samples from E drive, Some from D drive etc - It could be one of the disks is failing - Check where Cubase records to , it could be your HDD, or it could be on of your SSDs, less likely. 

Can i ask where you are based ? Uk, Europe, US? Other? (Just might be able to get more support depending on where you are based)


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## Paul Jelfs (Oct 24, 2020)

The Latency mon is OK, bit on the high side -but that is not the issue. 
Do you have a AMD card to try ? I don't think that will be the issue, but worth a try. 

Checking which drive Cubase writes to might help, and seeing how full it is (i am sure you have already done that). It might be one of your VSTs, but its so hard to say with such a large template. 

The best PC AUDIO card in my experience is the RME Raydat PCIE. It costs around £550 pounds but is the fastest and has the most stable drivers. Though it is alot to pay without a guarantee of a fix.


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## Paul Jelfs (Oct 24, 2020)

I tend to find problems happen when things change. You said about a month ago, could you check Reliability (just type it on your windows bar) and see if it goes back that far. 

If you can look at the history of what was installed around about that time, it might give you a clue as to what is causing it ? 

Like did you add a Touch Screen, or a new PCI-E card etc . Sorry its not much to go on but worth a shot.


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## Paul Jelfs (Oct 24, 2020)

Does Device Manager say everything is OK ? 

You could also try excluding Drives from getting Scanned everytime Kontakt loads samples up - at the worst it will speed up load times for your VSTs etc 

You can exclude entire Drives . 

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-exclude-files-and-folders-windows-defender-antivirus-scans 

If a system wipe does not work , it would be worth running a checker on the health of your drives.


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## tarantulis (Oct 24, 2020)

zvenx said:


> What USB devices do you use on the machine?
> rsp



I am using the built-in USB ports in the computer. I've also tried using a USB 3.0 PCIE card.



Paul Jelfs said:


> Does the project above use many different Drives ? Like samples from E drive, Some from D drive etc - It could be one of the disks is failing - Check where Cubase records to , it could be your HDD, or it could be on of your SSDs, less likely.



Everything is recorded to the project file location; and I've tried saving projects on all 5 of my internal SSDs. I do have samples on different drives, but in the project shown in my video I'm using none of those samples; only audio from project's audio files folder.



Paul Jelfs said:


> Can i ask where you are based ? Uk, Europe, US? Other? (Just might be able to get more support depending on where you are based)



I'm in the U.S. (Los Angeles).



Paul Jelfs said:


> The Latency mon is OK, bit on the high side -but that is not the issue.
> Do you have a AMD card to try ? I don't think that will be the issue, but worth a try.



By AMD, are you referring the audio or graphics card? I tried upgrading my graphics to a GEForce 1650 but it didn't help so I've switched back to the original (AMD Radeon HD 5450).



Paul Jelfs said:


> Checking which drive Cubase writes to might help, and seeing how full it is (i am sure you have already done that). It might be one of your VSTs, but its so hard to say with such a large template.



I've tried saving the project onto different drives and changing the write location, but I see no difference.

I've tried removing the VSTs (there were only a few, all soft synths) in the project above (which isn't large--only 30-40 tracks total, mostly audio, with a few insert effects and one reverb bus), that doesn't seem to be the issue. I've tried removing each track separately as well, to see if one particular track was the culprit, but that doesn't seem to be the case either.



Paul Jelfs said:


> The best PC AUDIO card in my experience is the RME Raydat PCIE. It costs around £550 pounds but is the fastest and has the most stable drivers. Though it is alot to pay without a guarantee of a fix.



I'm not sure what Audio card I'm using...how can I check? In Device Manager, under audio, I'm seeing "AMD High Definition Audio Device".


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## tarantulis (Oct 24, 2020)

Paul Jelfs said:


> I tend to find problems happen when things change. You said about a month ago, could you check Reliability (just type it on your windows bar) and see if it goes back that far.
> 
> If you can look at the history of what was installed around about that time, it might give you a clue as to what is causing it ?
> 
> Like did you add a Touch Screen, or a new PCI-E card etc . Sorry its not much to go on but worth a shot.



I pulled up Reliability, it only goes back about a week (when I was knee-deep with Steinberg Support), but here's what it shows:





I haven't added any sort of hardware...I have an iPad attached (for Lemur) but this has been connected for over a year with no issues. I believe the dips represent when I removed the PCIE cards, perhaps?



Paul Jelfs said:


> Does Device Manager say everything is OK ?
> 
> You could also try excluding Drives from getting Scanned everytime Kontakt loads samples up - at the worst it will speed up load times for your VSTs etc
> 
> ...



By checking device manager, you mean checking the drives' properties and making sure it says "this device is working properly?" If so, I've checked all the drives and audio drivers.

I have Windows Defender set to "off" it looks like. Does this still apply?

There are no Kontakt instances in the project shown above.


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## tarantulis (Oct 26, 2020)

Update: After completely wiping my drive, doing a clean install of Windows 10, having Jim from StudioCat remote in and tweak everything for optimum performance, the problem persists.

Three weeks of trying everything known to man, I am finally throwing in the towel.

Here is my go-forward plan as of now:

-Purchase a Mac
-Install Logic
-Never touch a PC or Cubase ever again


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## labornvain (Oct 27, 2020)

tarantulis said:


> Update: After completely wiping my drive, doing a clean install of Windows 10, having Jim from StudioCat remote in and tweak everything for optimum performance, the problem persists.
> 
> Three weeks of trying everything known to man, I am finally throwing in the towel.
> 
> ...


 While I'm entirely sympathetic to your decision to choose the nuclear option by switching platforms, I'm not convinced that it is the most rational choice.

If your goal is to return to work and resume your normal work flow for maximum productive efficiency, then solving this problem and getting Cubase working correctly is obviously the best action to take.

Of course, this is only possible if you can solve the problem which right now must seem insurmountable.

But I would remind you that while this issue has popped its head up over the years, the vast majority of Cubase users on Windows do not have this problem. So obviously, it is solvable.

I would also remind you, as a former Mac and Logic user, that there have been issues on that platform that appeared unsolvable as well.

So while switching platforms at this point might seem highly appealing, unless you're already familiar with Logic on a Mac, you have some serious work to do to get back up to your previous work flow standards.

I'm only saying all this because from a troubleshooting standpoint, it seems like you've made it almost to the finish line, but then stopped just shy of the solution.

That solution I believe, based on the extensive troubleshooting steps you've already taken, is to replace your hardware, Starting with your main system drive.

If I read correctly, you've been using your C drive for your projects drive. This is highly not recommended and, while unlikely, may have somehow corrupted it.

I think a read pretty thoroughly all the step you took, but I didn't see anything about updating your bios, or your chipset drivers, or any other type of motherboard based troubleshooting.

I know you had a tech check your system remotely, but there are things that very well may not have revealed themselves through his diagnostic methods.

I would at least try swapping out the system drive and installing everything on that and see if that fixes it. You should also remove any other are drives while testing.

If that doesn't fix it, then I would go to the next level and swap out the motherboard.

I know all this sounds a bit draconian, but I think we've pretty much eliminated the possibility that it's software related, except with regards to the bios and maybe the motherboard drivers.

And for the record, I am by no means a master computer builder, but I can swap out a motherboard in less than 30 minutes.

Just something to consider.

Of course, if you're already a wizard in logic, the calculation changes completely. But if you're not and you have a steep learning curve to look forward to, I might not throw in the towel just yet.


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## IFM (Oct 27, 2020)

tarantulis said:


> Update: After completely wiping my drive, doing a clean install of Windows 10, having Jim from StudioCat remote in and tweak everything for optimum performance, the problem persists.
> 
> Three weeks of trying everything known to man, I am finally throwing in the towel.
> 
> ...


Man so sorry to hear of your troubles. I’ve been there too back when all I used were PCs.


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## tarantulis (Oct 27, 2020)

labornvain said:


> While I'm entirely sympathetic to your decision to choose the nuclear option by switching platforms, I'm not convinced that it is the most rational choice.
> 
> If your goal is to return to work and resume your normal work flow for maximum productive efficiency, then solving this problem and getting Cubase working correctly is obviously the best action to take.
> 
> ...



Thanks a ton for the input! For reference, I'm originally a Logic/Mac user (only migrated to Cubase/PC setup a few years ago). But overall I hear you, it does make more sense to keep troubleshooting. I'm just exasperated..

I discussed upgrading the motherboard with Jim, but he said the only reason there might be an issue there is that I'm running Windows 10, and my ASrock x99 Extreme4 was made during the Windows 7 era--but I made that upgrade almost 2 years ago with no problems, so I can't see how that could possibly be the issue. I'd be looking at $1500 for the upgrade and that may or may not solve the issue; couldn't we rule out the motherboard by just reinstalling Win7?

Is it possible this could be the result of some sort of physical damage or depreciation of something in the PC?

As for the BIOS and chipset drivers, I'm not sure if we did that already; I'll check with him tomorrow and find out..

I'm still following up with Steinberg support every day and waiting to hear back from the development team, and been on the phone with Jim just about every day; so I may be leaving out things we've already checked and optimized.

Cubase doesn't have the disc spike on my 2012 16GB Mac Mini (the computer I upgraded from)--isn't it originally a PC software that should run even better on PC?


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Oct 27, 2020)

I don't have anything else to add except I wanted to say this makes me sad and I hope you get it sorted. Cubase has been really letting me down a lot lately.


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## tarantulis (Oct 27, 2020)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I don't have anything else to add except I wanted to say this makes me sad and I hope you get it sorted. Cubase has been really letting me down a lot lately.



Thank you man..the silver lining is knowing there's a great community of people here willing to help me out!


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## colony nofi (Oct 27, 2020)

There's a lot of helpful advice here - and the usual suspects have all been addressed it seems.
I'm personally 90% sure it isn't cubase at fault - it would be rare to find a programming issue that only effects you like this when it *WAS* working with the same hardware and all of a sudden stopped working properly. I'm glad the devs are helping you. Their challenge is getting a repro of your fault (which is about the only way to fix something if it is a software error. I've pinged some other folks I know who know a tonne more about this stuff than me about this thread, just in case they can offer some help to you or the devs.)

Its smelling to me more and more like a strange hardware issue, although what I'm struggling to imagine. The cubase vs ableton audio engines are different enough that I can perceive of instances where hardware might cause one to break and not the other, but those feel a little like clutching at straws.

It is a head scratcher for sure.

Can you make a short video showing exactly what is happening and post here? And post an example session where its occurring?

Why is this so unique.... what could be so different about your system as to cause this?

@SimonCharlesHanna - Cubase been letting you down? In what way? Maybe thats for another thread.


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## labornvain (Oct 27, 2020)

I can't believe I forgot this, but you should try switching out your SATA cables.

You probly don't even have to buy new ones. Just swap them around, starting with the one that goes to the system drive.

It seems unlikely this is the culprit, but it's so easy to do, there's no reason not to try it.


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## tarantulis (Oct 28, 2020)

colony nofi said:


> There's a lot of helpful advice here - and the usual suspects have all been addressed it seems.
> I'm personally 90% sure it isn't cubase at fault - it would be rare to find a programming issue that only effects you like this when it *WAS* working with the same hardware and all of a sudden stopped working properly. I'm glad the devs are helping you. Their challenge is getting a repro of your fault (which is about the only way to fix something if it is a software error. I've pinged some other folks I know who know a tonne more about this stuff than me about this thread, just in case they can offer some help to you or the devs.)
> 
> Its smelling to me more and more like a strange hardware issue, although what I'm struggling to imagine. The cubase vs ableton audio engines are different enough that I can perceive of instances where hardware might cause one to break and not the other, but those feel a little like clutching at straws.
> ...



I posted a video on the first page of this thread. It shows the issue in a blank session, then an existing session.


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## tarantulis (Oct 28, 2020)

Update: Ordered Win7 boot drive. Will wipe drive again and reinstall Cubase on Win7. Jim suggests trying this as my motherboard is not optimized for 10 (even though I upgraded 2 years ago).

Will test this on my current drive and then on my old HDD to rule out drives.

Really don't want to pay $1500 for a new motherboard that may not fix the issue. Would you ever need to replace the motherboard on a Mac??

I've updated the chipset drivers but not the Bios. Trying this tomorrow.

I've tried removing all the internal SSDs but not different SATA cables. Will try this tomorrow too


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## tarantulis (Oct 29, 2020)

Update: Win7 arrives today, will report back once I try.

For anyone just tuning in, here's what I have tried so far:

-Saving projects on different internal SSDs (5)
-Disabling/enabling ASIO Guard
-Changing buffer settings
-Changing Disk Preload Time
-Clearing preferences / presets
-Uninstalling/reinstalling Cubase 10
-Upgrading to Cubase 10.5
-Downgrading to Cubase 9.5
-Updating graphics card
-Disconnecting internal SSDs
-Wiping entire OS, reinstalling Windows 10
-Trying two different audio interfaces (usb and firewire)
-Reinstalling interface drivers
-Not using ANY interface drivers, only Cubase's Generic Low Latency driver
-Updating chipset drivers
-Updating BIOS
-Benchmarking entire system (performance optimization, LatencyMon, etc.)
-Making sure video card was set to High Performance mode (it was)
-Making sure none of the drives were being indexed (they weren't)
-Making sure hyperthreading was on (it was)
-Making sure none of the cores were Parked (they weren't)
-Checking and updating all drivers in Device Manager
-Checking Reliability for unusual behavior
-Removing all PCIE cards


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## IFM (Oct 29, 2020)

Good luck man...really sounds like hardware failure somewhere. As a big Mac guy who's not afraid of opening them up and to answer your previous question, no I've never once had to replace a motherboard. RAM (OWC no less!) and a couple of cheap SSDs are the only things I've ever had fail recently. Outside of that, I had to re-flow the video card from an old 27" iMac.


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## colony nofi (Oct 29, 2020)

Oh the motherboards do go in macs. I remember a couple of our 2007 (!!!) MP's going down and the motherboards needing to be replaced (for what turned out to be just a couple of power regulator caps from memory!). Expensive too!!!

And sorry - @tarantulis I missed the video earlier. I'll take a good look. Thanks


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## toddkreuz (Oct 29, 2020)

My disk cache meter has been spiking for years in Cubase. LOL 

Never thought much of it. Everything still works just fine. Not understanding how this
is a problem you would throw your PC out the window for. 
Is it just annoying to see the meter go up? Or are you having an actual performance issue?


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## brett (Oct 29, 2020)

I can’t quite tell what the issue is from your video. It seems in the empty project you are seeing a disk cache spike every time you manually move the cursor. That’s what I get here too but it certainly doesn’t affect performance. 

On the second part of the video on an active project I can’t tell if you are simply pressing play or jumping about with the cursor but I noticed that unlike the first part of the vid the disc cache meter isn’t moving but the ASIO meter seems to be. Can you clarify?

Not uncommon anyway









Disk Cache Usage Meter Spike !


How to fix high disk usage ? Pls show anyother cheap & reliable options than replacing a new hard drive or switching to SSD ? Thank you guys 🙂 And Happy New Year to all Cubase buddies & developer team too 😉




www.steinberg.net


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