# Which book do I need? (Pdf preferably)



## J van E (Oct 25, 2011)

What book would you suggest to someone who has been writing songs and recording for a few decades but has no real knowledge about composing for strings (or orchestra), or should I say arranging? Yes, that would be me.  

I have plenty of idea's in my head and have no problem creating melodies and pop/rock/alternative songs and arrangements, but even though I think i come a long way by simply listening to what I create (I am talking about creating orchestral pieces now), I feel I am sometimes looking a bit too long for the right notes to fit in . If you know what I mean. Quite often I end up moving notes around in the piano roll of Sonar until I hear what I heard in my head. (Or until I hear something that makes me think 'Oh, that's nice too!'  )

I've been looking at some book recommendations, but I don't really know what I need. I don't think I need: should I go for Composition or Harmony or Orchestration... I myself think I need more information about and knowledge of harmony. When I think about composition I think I can do that (sort of  ) and orchestration, well, I know what instrument should play what and so on... Yes, yes, yes, I know I am touching the basics here and there is a lot more to orchestration etc, but since I am often looking for the right notes and simply do things by ear, I think I need some more harmony in my life.  

Am I right...? Or should a beginning string composer/arranger really read something different? 

Since Peter A. posts here I had a look at Applied Professional Harmony 101 but I wonder if it is not too much theory and that after reading it I will still be moving notes up and down in the piano roll until they fit, haha!

I'd like to be able to download the book (patience...? What's that?) and if it wouldn't cost more then some 25 bucks or so...


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 26, 2011)

There is no quick path to becoming a skilled composer, you need to know all of them.

That said, our own Dave Connor is giving online lessons that are very well thought out via Skype. If you are serious about becoming a good composer and not just a sample manipulator, it would be an excellent place to start IMHO.

http://www.daveconnor.net/#!lessons


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## Peter Alexander (Oct 26, 2011)

J van E @ Tue Oct 25 said:


> What book would you suggest to someone who has been writing songs and recording for a few decades but has no real knowledge about composing for strings (or orchestra), or should I say arranging? Yes, that would be me.
> 
> I have plenty of idea's in my head and have no problem creating melodies and pop/rock/alternative songs and arrangements, but even though I think i come a long way by simply listening to what I create (I am talking about creating orchestral pieces now), I feel I am sometimes looking a bit too long for the right notes to fit in . If you know what I mean. Quite often I end up moving notes around in the piano roll of Sonar until I hear what I heard in my head. (Or until I hear something that makes me think 'Oh, that's nice too!'  )
> 
> ...



Applied Professional Harmony is written by V.I. Control's "own" Peter Alexander and is also well thought of!

All the information about APH 101 is laid out for you at the link below. And it's available for $27.95 as a downloadable PDF. This is a songwriter's approach to harmony.
http://alexanderpublishing.com/Products/Applied-Professional-Harmony-101---PDF__978-0-939067-44-2-PDF.aspx (http://alexanderpublishing.com/Products ... 2-PDF.aspx)

Theory is a poor title, which is why I didn't use it. The book is organized in 4 parts. The first section is equal to a Music 100 class which covers the facts about music. 

Part two has you building chord progressions with up to six chords in each of the modes. Here you record your work using orchestral sounds from each section. In response to your piano roll comment, the objective is NOT to move things around that way, but instead, when the exercise leads your ear in a direction, rewrite up to the point where you hear the change, and then work out the new chord and the direction you want to go in. This approach is "organized screwing around" and gets you going rather quickly in an organized methodical way.

Part three shows you the basics of creating a simple arrangement of one your own songs with melody, bass, pad, etc., which you then record.

Part four moves you into applying what you've learned working with Bach's 4-part vocal arrangements. 

_Learn it right the first time_ means what you've learned you then do. So APH 101 covers the basic harmony found in most pop songs, builds sequencing skills, starts you in basic MIDI recording. 

Plus you have to select five (5) different songs from five different songwriters and styles to apply what you've learned in a real world setting. 

Unlike other harmony books, APH focuses on melody and harmony, not just harmony.

Thanks for asking.


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## David Story (Oct 26, 2011)

The best teachers:
1. Teach in person
2. Give examples from masterpieces
3. Show you how to analyze music from scratch

Go to a university or take private lessons. Having other students can help you get insight and show alternatives. Private lessons help you focus more on difficult questions. And the relationships can be priceless.

After that you can continue study on your own.

Every composer has to search for the right note. The more you study other people's music, the easier it is to find the right note in yours.

Piston's HARMONY is good:
http://www.amazon.com/Harmony-Fifth-Walter-Piston/dp/0393954803 (http://www.amazon.com/Harmony-Fifth-Wal ... 0393954803)
So is Persichetti:
http://www.amazon.com/Harmony-Fifth-Walter-Piston/dp/0393954803 (http://www.amazon.com/Harmony-Fifth-Wal ... 0393954803)

or free here:
http://www.musictheoryblog.blogspot.com/


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## RyBen (Dec 6, 2011)

Rimsky-Korsakov's Principles of Orchestration is priceless IMO. It has so many examples that you may just want to skip over some from time to time. Though the material is a bit limited (they're all the author/composer's own pieces), there's a little bit of everything thrown in. The text is large in print and simple to understand.

One thing I love about Rimsky's approach is that he is VERY opinionated and to the point. Some readers may value those who are ambiguous but I personally hate that. I'd rather the author guide me directly with their arguments and I'll take what I can with a grain of salt. I tend to get better results that way. I've found that I share many of Rimsky's opinions myself but I'm not afraid to go against his word occasionally.

The Harmony section has been the most resourceful for me. It's not really about the theoretical part of harmony, but rather how to use the orchestra to draw harmonic colors. Whether it be woodwinds or brass, he explains how to effectively lay out the chords across a section(s), considering range and balance in the orchestration.

You should be able to find a free PDF since it's in public domain I believe. It's a good read whether you're at or away from the keyboard. The examples are in a separate volume BTW, so PDF is recommended for portability.


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## JimmyPoppa (Dec 7, 2011)

J van E @ Tue Oct 25 said:


> ... I feel I am sometimes looking a bit too long for the right notes to fit in . If you know what I mean. Quite often I end up moving notes around in the piano roll of Sonar until I hear what I heard in my head. (Or until I hear something that makes me think 'Oh, that's nice too!'


Hello,

Based on your post, you might want to consider digging into some good ear training. If you hear music in your head then have to search around until you find it or something close, it means you don't really know what you're hearing. Learning harmony and all the other aspects of composition and arranging/orchestration are certainly good things and it is true that there are no shortcuts. They all take time and effort. However, you could learn all of that from books and still not be able to identify what you're hearing if you don't develop your outer and inner ability to recognize what you hear. 

Solid ear training is the basic foundation for that. If you combine good ear training with basic general harmony knowledge (all the books mentioned here are good), you will then have the tools to help you with whatever direction you want to go. The good thing about Peter's harmony books is that they are inexpensive downloadable pdfs, he goes through the concepts in short, easy to grasp segments, and he covers most of the bases as relates to Pop/Jazz type songwriting. 

However, whether you choose his books or one of the others, it won't matter if you can't hear and recognize what you're learning. It will all just be theory with no aural context. IMO, you really must spend time developing your hearing skills. 

There are many inexpensive Ear Training resources online (just Google Ear Training and you will get a truckload). The key thing is to find something that fits your needs and budget, then practice consistently. In a few months, you will begin to recognize what you're hearing in your head and be able to get to it more easily. You will also find that what you're hearing will seem more clear. 

So, IMO, it may be that looking into Arranging, Orchestration or Composition books, might be getting ahead of the game. It sounds like you need a good foundation on which to build. Rock solid Ear Training and basic Harmony would set you up for a lifetime. Then you could go on to study more deeply in whichever areas you choose.

That's my 2 cents. Hope it helps.

Be Well,

Jimmy


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## synergy543 (Dec 7, 2011)

JimmyPoppa has some good advice.

However, just in case you still want some orchestration books, Thomas Goss has a list of online books in the episode below. Just click on the "show more" to see the list.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdqUmtv3LkA


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## Nostradamus (Dec 7, 2011)

You might also take a look at the "internet edition" of Korsakov's Principles of Orchestration. This version is based on the original text with lots of notes and sound examples.

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration-On-line (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/for ... on-On-line)


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## SergeD (Dec 7, 2011)

You could also google Alan Belkin


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## JimmyPoppa (Dec 7, 2011)

J van E @ Tue Oct 25 said:


> What book would you suggest to someone who has been writing songs and recording for a few decades but has no real knowledge about composing for strings (or orchestra), or should I say arranging? Yes, that would be me. ...
> 
> Am I right...? Or should a beginning string composer/arranger really read something different?...



For Orchestration and Arranging, why not start with these two *free* resources?

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration-On-line?s=6469db9a79fb42ae1bcf07d33e414a32 (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/for ... d33e414a32) (This is the one Nostradamus mentioned)

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/107-Jazz-Arranging-Online-by-Prof.-Chuck-Israels?s=6469db9a79fb42ae1bcf07d33e414a32 (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/for ... d33e414a32)

They can give you a good overview of both subjects. You can learn enough to know whether those are the directions you want to go. You have to determine if you are the type of person who will sit down and grind through that kind of material. If not, then you're wasting time and money buying books. Also, there's no need to spend $$$ on it when there are so many quality free resources available. 

If you get through both of those and need to go farther, then is the time to look for other options (like private study or in-depth courses/books). In the meantime, you can work on your Ear Training and getting a little more "Harmony into your life." 8) 

Be Well,

Jimmy


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## Nostradamus (Dec 7, 2011)

For me one of the most important aspects is to have an audible feedback. I can read notes, but to work with note sheets only is nearly useless when it comes to orchestration.


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## JimmyPoppa (Dec 7, 2011)

Nostradamus @ Wed Dec 07 said:


> For me one of the most important aspects is to have an audible feedback. I can read notes, but to work with note sheets only is nearly useless when it comes to orchestration.



Nostrodamus,

IMO, you're exactly right when it comes to the concerns Van originally asked about. If he gets Orchestration (or Arranging, Harmony, etc.) books that teach theory without an audible component, it's not going to solve the issues he's dealing with.

This is where the Ear Training comes into play. I swear that you can reach a point where you are 'hearing' what you are reading. This is not some gift that only certain people have. It is a matter of training and practice. You also get to where you can write down what you're hearing in your head and pretty much know it's correct. Nowadays, notation programs playback in any case so, it's hard to go wrong there.

If I understand Van correctly, he is saying he has ideas, can hear music in his head, has a 'feel' for instrumental sounds, but doesn't have solid technique and has to search around to find something close to what he's hearing. Without, as you say, an audible component, I suspect it will be somewhat frustrating to study the theoretical material because it won't really translate into something he can hear.

A couple of posters have suggested that he take lessons, either online or in a class. However, I have the impression that this may not be an immediately realistic option for Van. He said he wanted inexpensive, easily downloadable, immediately available material. He also said he has been composing and recording for "...a few decades" which implies that he is not a child.

Lessons are very expensive. With a good teacher, they are definitely worth it, of course, but they just aren't realistic for everyone. Organized self practice can be cheap or free. The real question, IMO, is whether he is the type of person to consistently put in the disciplined study and practice over an extended period of months and even years.

Many people love to 'play' with music, to write and hear their stuff. It's fun and, with today's technology, there's instant gratification. It's much more difficult to do the daily grind of the things needed to develop your fundamental skills If Van can do this, then he can establish a good foundation without great expense in $$$, just in effort.

So, in a sense, I think I'm saying the same thing as you. In trying to address specifically his question, it's not so much about the books, it's about knowing what you are hearing. IMO, the way for him to get where he seems to want to be, is to start with Ear Training and basic Harmony. And of course, lots of practice :shock: .

Be Well,

Jimmy


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