# Police officers with guns



## RiffWraith (Aug 22, 2014)

*WARNING* The yt vid below is somewhat graphic, and may not be suitable for everyone.

So, in the wake of the Michael Brown shooting, there was another police shooting in MO the other day. Two officers gunned down a 25 yr old man, Kajieme Powell. The officers were white, and Kajieme was black, but AFAIC, race did not play a factor here in any way. 

The difference this time, is the man was actually armed. Here is the vid - which as I said before is somewhat graphic, but not intensely, as it was shot from a distance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ikg3x5_tJc

I take no issue with the police having to defend themselves, and I am not suggesting that officers put themselves and their fellow officers at more risk than need be. But as I watch the vid, that to me is a clear cut case of excessive force. Did they really need to kill him? Yes, he was armed, and yes, he was walking towards the officers, disobeying their commands. Yes, he needed to be stopped. But shot like that? 

Here is what I don't get. The officers get out of their car, guns drawn. I see no issue there. They tell Kajieme to stop/get down, etc. - obviously no issue there. But here's the thing - there were TWO officers. Why can't one officer keep the gun trained on Kajieme, while the other holsters his gun, and takes out his taser? No warning, no "stop or you will be tased" - as the warnings were already given. Take out the taser, and just tase him. Then, go over and kick the knife away, turn him over and cuff him. Why not do it that way? I understand tasers fail sometimes, but that is why the second officer keeps his gun properly trained. This way, if the taser does fail and Kajieme charges, the other officer fires. This doesn't seem like rocket science to me. I understand that being out on the street actually in that situation is a bit different from typing on a computer from the comfort of my home, but still - is there no better way to handle situation?

Thoughts? Am I missing something here?


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## germancomponist (Aug 22, 2014)

I find no words..... . This never would happen in Germany.


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## handz (Aug 22, 2014)

This is always hard to judge but - if policeman in the USA tell you drop the weapon 3x and you not and moving toward them - you are stupid or you wanna do something serious. They could pacify him without shooting for sure - but... maybe one of them end with knife in stomach, noone know.


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## G.E. (Aug 22, 2014)

I'm no gun expert, but it seems to me that putting 9 or 10 bullets in someone (if I counted right) is a bit unnecessary for the purpose of defending yourself.And you know they couldn't have missed any bullets, because the guy was very close. And they still kept shooting even after he was down.I know I'm being Captain Obvious here and I'm not telling you something which you didn't already know.Though if you ask me,I think the cops really enjoyed it and if they wanted to tase him, they would have done it..


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## handz (Aug 22, 2014)

This is the idea of nowdays society - tease someone who wanna kill you, then give him medical care and let him free to kill someone else...

I dont know abotu this guy, who knows what he was doin. But some people are crazy and dangerous. Every day somoene kills someone else with a knife or gun or metal rod, out of nowhere.

I would say it is not best idea to wander around with knife or gun in your hand and arguing with cops - but thats just me...


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## KEnK (Aug 22, 2014)

I have cops in my family- inlaws.

Not all cops are the same (not so obvious to everyone)
But some (I believe very few) are looking for the opportunity to fill someone w/ bullets,
or simply beat the f___ out of someone.

More (or different) training needs to happen all over the country-
especially in the case of the mentally ill.
This is happening to often now to be looked at as an exception.

Also let's not forget that this happens disproportionally to black and Hispanic people.

This happens because they are allowed to do it.
It's their Constitutional Right to Kill Us!

k


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 22, 2014)

The police released the video. I believe this was to show that the cops followed protocol. Well, guess what? The protocol is F'd up!

We have mentally ill people in this country. Mental institutions were defunded, so many are on the streets. Many police departments have adopted a paranoid, authoritarian posture. This leads to shoot-first policies. Put this all together and mentally ill people are killed regularly by police.

I know of multiple similar situations in the greater Portland area. In one case, family members were worried about their son. They called police to help. The police came, were threatened, and shot him. Some help!

If a bear comes into town, they shoot it with a tranquilizer dart. If it's a mentally ill human, they shoot to kill.

We need new police policies - for both issues: racism and dealing with the mentally ill. The situations are separate, but the underlying causes are similar:

1) Authoritarianism - Rather than a collaborative approach, some officers issue orders way too early and easily, which leads to a question: "or what?"

2) Guns and force - The officer can't lose authority, so they are compelled to offer yet more commands and if there isn't compliance, people are beaten or guns are drawn.

3) Paranoia - If the officer has a gun drawn, the citizen won't comply, the officer won't back down (to call for support), and the officer translates this to a threat on their life, bad things happen.

And if the paranoia includes people in a given group (say, young men of color), some police will start confrontations (say, pulling people over for no reason but race) and will be pre-wound into the authoritarian-paranoid loop before a word has been said.

A few years ago, my nephew, who is half-Mexican, moved to Delaware. He got pulled over on the same stretch of road over and over, sometimes being handcuffed and even taken to the station. It was generally the same excuse - robbery suspect. Fortunately, my nephew is calm and compliant. Who knows what would have happened if he had talked back. After a year or so, enough cops learned that his grandmother was a pastor in the area and they stopped targeting him.

Anyway, authoritarianism, guns, paranoia, mental illness, and racism are a bad mix. We need a whole new approach to policing in this country.


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## AC986 (Aug 22, 2014)

G.E. @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> I'm no gun expert, but it seems to me that putting 9 or 10 bullets in someone (if I counted right) is a bit unnecessary for the purpose of defending yourself.And you know they couldn't have missed any bullets, because the guy was very close. And they still kept shooting even after he was down.I know I'm being Captain Obvious here and I'm not telling you something which you didn't already know.Though if you ask me,I think the cops really enjoyed it and if they wanted to tase him, they would have done it..



I think you've been watching too many Hollywood movies.


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## G.E. (Aug 22, 2014)

adriancook @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> G.E. @ Fri Aug 22 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm no gun expert, but it seems to me that putting 9 or 10 bullets in someone (if I counted right) is a bit unnecessary for the purpose of defending yourself.And you know they couldn't have missed any bullets, because the guy was very close. And they still kept shooting even after he was down.I know I'm being Captain Obvious here and I'm not telling you something which you didn't already know.Though if you ask me,I think the cops really enjoyed it and if they wanted to tase him, they would have done it..
> ...


Yes,I have. How did you know ? :D


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 22, 2014)

> The protocol is F'd up!



Exactly. There was absolutely no reason to shoot that erratic guy. So what if he had a knife. The policemen could easily have backed up, for heaven's sake.

I started a thread on Facebook asking whether they *ever* need to shoot someone, other than when someone is about to get shot. To me they don't.


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## germancomponist (Aug 22, 2014)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> > The protocol is F'd up!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



+ 1000!

Again: In Germany that would be unimaginable! Such a thing would never happen here!


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 22, 2014)

Lately, I've heard a number of people say, "the police have a really tough job."

To that I say, "I'm no longer interested in hearing excuses."

The whole approach to policing needs to change. And if people still find their jobs to be too tough, they need a career change.

I never want to hear a nuclear plant operator or air traffic controller say, "Well, you have to expect this sort of thing. This job is really tough."


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## choc0thrax (Aug 22, 2014)

Wandering around with a knife while black = shot to death.

Aiming an assault rifle at federal agents while white = ehhh it's fine.


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## PMortise (Aug 22, 2014)

choc0thrax @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> Wandering around with a knife while black = shot to death.
> 
> Aiming an assault rifle at federal agents while white = ehhh it's fine.


Just like that


JonFairhurst @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> Lately, I've heard a number of people say, "the police have a really tough job."
> 
> To that I say, "I'm no longer interested in hearing excuses."
> 
> ...


Exact-a-mundo.

I've handled plenty of guns, in and out of the military. I have friends and relatives currently in the military as well as prior service, and friends that are police officers in NYC, Phoenix and Miami. I've heard my fair share of deadly force briefings from different sources - and this falls within the guidelines of none of them.

That guy was down after what sounded like the 3rd shot. - meaning the first two shots _really_ ended that scenario. The last 5 were AFTER he was prone, and unless their gun practice ranges are inside of a porta-potty I doubt either one of them only practiced on targets 10ft away. Those cops were never in any serious danger. This was a "dead men don't hire lawyers" scenario through and through.

I question the media's effect on situations like this. Most of the stories go for the shock-and-awe reaction, rather than though-provoking ones like this one that I heard on NPR yesterday:

A Trinidadian immigrant reflects on her hometown of Ferguson, Missouri

What stuck with me was when she was basically asked who's "side" she was on, her response was "My position is I'm in solidarity with my _entire_ community." I also loved the way she noted our distinction between "Americans" and "African-Americans:
_"For example," she says, "you even have the term 'African American.' Why don't you just have 'American' as in Trinidad we are all Trinidadians. We don't have African Trinidadians, and Indian Trinidadians, we are all Trinidadians. But I find as a result the tensions between the two are more evident here in the United States. Not [just] in Ferguson, but in any part of the United States you go, you will find this divide. It just so happened that that incident sparked what is already existing all over the United States."_

Just my 2c.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 22, 2014)

It's not like that in every part of the US. But it is widespread.


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## RiffWraith (Aug 22, 2014)

JonFairhurst @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> Well, guess what? The protocol is F'd up!



My thoughts exactly. I really dont want to accuse the officers of any wrongdoing _in terms of what police policy and the law both say_. The question is: did the officers act in a manner that is consistent with their training. If they did, I believe strongly that we need to take a long, hard look at the way that we train our law enforcement officers.


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## Dave Connor (Aug 22, 2014)

If they shoot, they shoot to kill. A guy charging with a knife who's getting closer and closer no doubt falls under the category of a legitimate threat. But when you watch one of these encounters you really wonder why a single shot to the leg isn't the first move. Particularly with two cops there. I mean, shoot the guy in the leg and run off while your partner covers you. 

Apparently it takes some time to setup a taser. If so, that technology should be improved and made more practical. Some of these guys are a little whacky and do very stupid things but being shot down like that is too extreme and should be avoided as much as possible as a matter of policy.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 22, 2014)

Dave, I don't want to say you should watch that video, because it's very upsetting. But that guy posed as much of a threat as a 2-year-old.

On Facebook I asked why cops don't just have rubber bullets, and so far I haven't heard a reason. There was a shoot-out in Los Angeles a few years ago with two guys who had military armor, and it took the cops a long time to kill them. Short of that I don't see why less lethal bullets wouldn't be better.

I know, I know, if they have less lethal bullets they're going to be tempted to use them more...


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## Dave Connor (Aug 22, 2014)

I had watched it Nick. As I said, I don't think they should have gunned the guy down. I couldn't see the knife either but if he was coming at a cop(s) with a knife and getting as close as he did then they are going to act. As I said, when you watch that you just think they should do something other than kill the guy. Run away and shoot in the air and worst case, kneecap the guy. As people are saying here, that's not how cops are trained. I agree that they should be trained differently. What the guy did was really dumb but that shouldn't cost him his life.

Edit "Less lethal" is exactly right Nick. Watching that video does make you think that you're witnessing a type of insanity in a reaction completely lacking in humanity.


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## gsilbers (Aug 22, 2014)

dude... like what the fuk are you are going to do if a random guy goes after you and you are armed??!?! 
there is no second guessing. maybe the guy has guns on his back and is trying to distract you, or there is someone else around, or he is crazy and can throw himself at you. you just dont mess with police. thats why alll other vidoes of a black guy or ANY guy being told to lay down and comply they COMPLY, exactly for this reason. 
statistic dont lie, there is a ton of guys with guns shooting around, high on meth shooting or doing something wierd. you just comply. its the law. dont fuk around. its a no brainer. 
yes, its fuked up, but its not just a thing that just happened, it happens for a reason. and that reason is not pretty. for both sides.


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## Dave Connor (Aug 22, 2014)

gsilbers, believe you me, I get that there's another side of the coin. I am referring to that video and that video only. That guy could have been shot once in each leg if need be. I don't think he needed to be blown away like that. I thought the cops had enough time to stop him without killing him.

I think people are commenting on how automatic and agreed upon the action the police took appeared. It was just that: they are trained to do what they did. I wouldn't want to jeopardize police officers lives with training that puts them at a disadvantage. The guy was a good distance from them and they should have acted sooner with threats of force and then been less lethal in it's use imho.


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## gsilbers (Aug 22, 2014)

Dave Connor @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> gsilbers, believe you me, I get that there's another side of the coin. I am referring to that video and that video only. That guy could have been shot once in each leg if need be. I don't think he needed to be blown away like that. I thought the cops had enough time to stop him without killing him.
> 
> I think people are commenting on how automatic and agreed upon the action the police took appeared. It was just that: they are trained to do what they did. I wouldn't want to jeopardize police officers lives with training that puts them at a disadvantage. The guy was a good distance from them and they should have acted sooner with threats of force and then been less lethal in it's use imho.



yeah... how about this:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/84262823/

you dont know what the fuk people are up to. you are apolice, which on itself means its a threat for someone being pulled over/etc., which on itself means at any moment, a life threating situation is involved.


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## Krayh (Aug 22, 2014)

The majority of the US police personnel has an IQ below 50, this is what you get...


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## gsilbers (Aug 22, 2014)

Krayh @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> The majority of the US police personnel has an IQ below 50, this is what you get...



i dont know whats happening here right now, maybe it the media or a a distortion of the truth but if we as a society now are not backing up police , who make sure to keep us safe, seems like somethng is really wrong. 

see my flag? i come from the second most dangerious city in the world... yes, even more dangerous than iraq and siria DURING war. cops there are corrupt and yet at the same time face many dangers. i wish there were cops like they are in the US. i know there are videos out there showing a bad light to cops, but these are usually folks with college degreess and similar mentality than ours. is easy to play the dump teenage kid with those hippie era mentality blurring out saying cops suck maaaan.. and pretending they are always wrong, but when there is a big black dude fuked up on meth yielding a knife or just plain being aggressive who the fuk is going to help you out?!? does that happe in the US? all the fuking time! did it happened to me in a gas station in la brea in LA, of course the fuking did. wish cops where there, fuking yeah. 
there are of course a small minotrity of cops who go out of line, yes, and only in certain times. like the guy who kept punching the homeless in the ground. the guy can easel sue, and they did, and happens and LA city pays a huge fine and they leanrn and they train. yes, but you see that video , but you dont see the other 100 times those ocps have to deal with shady shit. you are right now typing n a 2k computer bitching at the world saying things due to the media lens, but go out and see the stats, or pour neighborhoods, developing countires etc, life is not that pretty and im really fuking glad there is cops out there helping us out. and if there is news of one doing things outragrous its pretty sure thing that there are 100 things being done to cops we do not see. its not like ou loose a hard drive if you dont pay attention , you have a random guy suddenly shoot you, or his friend being around suddenly shoots you etc. these folks do a very dangerious job. and suddenly to say cops sucks, cops are dumb , to me sound its just a kid not knowing the world around them.
hey, im not a right wing nut or anything just a guy who thinks has a good head on his shouldrs when it comes to knowing who is a friend and who is a foe.


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## G.E. (Aug 23, 2014)

> i dont know whats happening here right now, maybe it the media or a a distortion of the truth but if we as a society now are not backing up police , who make sure to keep us safe, seems like somethng is really wrong.


I'm sorry... Have you actually ever had to deal with police ? As a normal citizen I mean. Because I've had the "pleasure" of dealing with them on a few occasions and I'm not feeling very protected and safe. I'm sure there are some great men and women in the police force... But most of them are scumbags with a small D complex, who abuse their power.
I don't even care about this guy who got shot, because maybe he deserved it. But search for "police abuse" on youtube to see thousands of videos on how these pigs treat innocent citizens. And this stuff is happening all over the world, not just in the US.


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## AC986 (Aug 23, 2014)

One of my deepest regrets about this country is our gum laws. Sorry, gun laws.


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## TheUnfinished (Aug 23, 2014)

If this is the correct police protocol for such situations in the US, then you're effectively declaring a 'suspended' death sentence on people with a number of mental illnesses, whcih I'm sure totals hundreds (if not thousands) of citizens. That can't be right.


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## Dave Connor (Aug 23, 2014)

gsilbers @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> yeah... how about this:
> 
> http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/84262823/
> 
> you dont know what the fuk people are up to. you are apolice, which on itself means its a threat for someone being pulled over/etc., which on itself means at any moment, a life threating situation is involved.



Yes, that's the other side of the coin and I'm not arguing in favor of the perpetrator at all. What I'm saying is that if that the cops are able to clearly see what the guy is up to and they already have guns drawn then maybe don't kill the guy.

My comments are not an indictment of all police everywhere. I am questioning the policy of shooting only to kill and not to wound or stop. Also stopping by other means if their lives are clearly not imminently threatened.

Your link makes a very good point which no one should shove aside.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 23, 2014)

gsilbers, I don't know why you think nobody understands that there are dangerous people around and that we need a police force.

The point is that they don't need to kill people. And I'm happy to see that our president is looking into this insane situation with police being equipped for war:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/us/in ... -news&_r=0


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 23, 2014)

Police are supposed to be policing, not abusing their power and being unnecessarily violent. We expect them to do a good job, just like you and I are expected to do a good job of what we do.

This is the problem:

http://www.policestateusa.com


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## bimberl (Aug 24, 2014)

TheUnfinished @ Sat Aug 23 said:


> If this is the correct police protocol for such situations in the US, then you're effectively declaring a 'suspended' death sentence on people with a number of mental illnesses, whcih I'm sure totals hundreds (if not thousands) of citizens. That can't be right.



My wife, a professor who works in the area of law and the police, when told about this incident said, "I guarantee those officers acted within policy". Which is to say, the problem here is systemic. This is correct police protocol-- and that isn't right.


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 25, 2014)

bimberl @ Sun Aug 24 said:


> My wife, a professor who works in the area of law and the police, when told about this incident said, "I guarantee those officers acted within policy". Which is to say, the problem here is systemic. This is correct police protocol-- and that isn't right.



Exactly.

Just last night I was hanging out with a group of off-duty cops and their families. Great people - and definitely not with low IQs!

I didn't bring up Ferguson as this wasn't a time for shop talk. It was kids, dogs, barbecue, and beers time. 

The bottom line is that I'd trust these guys. That said, I really hope that their protocols and training are positive and effective - for both them and the citizenry. Given the right tools and approaches, they've got my confidence. They're healthy people and not hard asses. Their protocols shouldn't undermine their positive nature.


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## bimberl (Aug 25, 2014)

JonFairhurst @ Mon Aug 25 said:


> bimberl @ Sun Aug 24 said:
> 
> 
> > My wife, a professor who works in the area of law and the police, when told about this incident said, "I guarantee those officers acted within policy". Which is to say, the problem here is systemic. This is correct police protocol-- and that isn't right.
> ...



Couldn't agree more.


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## handz (Aug 25, 2014)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Aug 24 said:


> Police are supposed to be policing, not abusing their power and being unnecessarily violent. We expect them to do a good job, just like you and I are expected to do a good job of what we do.
> 
> This is the problem:
> 
> http://www.policestateusa.com



this is both true and not. 

Here police have a very small competence compared to USA and it is a BIG PROBLEM. There are violent homles people in summer everywhere and they are not able to kick them out from the city or "teach them a lesson". They are scared that they will have problems. Women especiall are not happy when they need to go among them and they stopping and even try to touch them sometimes to stop them - i think in US this would be no no, here those people do a lot of things as they know noone hurts them... 

Im sorry but there are people from who polite people need to be protected and sadly it cant be done by telling those bad people "can you please not do this...." this not work on kids and it double not work on drunk aggresive assholes and other people like that. And honestly - nothing polite and not harmful works. 

In USA - everyone have gun - which is double crazy, cant imagine this here. So people must be super scared in some places and situation. Cops must not abuse their authority but also must be feared by people doing something against the law - and those people know they doing someting wrong, so why overly protect them, nowday socitety tries too much to protect aggresors ratherr than victims sometimes.


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## gsilbers (Aug 25, 2014)

G.E. @ Sat Aug 23 said:


> > i dont know whats happening here right now, maybe it the media or a a distortion of the truth but if we as a society now are not backing up police , who make sure to keep us safe, seems like somethng is really wrong.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry... Have you actually ever had to deal with police ? As a normal citizen I mean. Because I've had the "pleasure" of dealing with them on a few occasions and I'm not feeling very protected and safe. I'm sure there are some great men and women in the police force... But most of them are scumbags with a small D complex, who abuse their power.
> I don't even care about this guy who got shot, because maybe he deserved it. But search for "police abuse" on youtube to see thousands of videos on how these pigs treat innocent citizens. And this stuff is happening all over the world, not just in the US.



yes, i have dealt with them here in the US and in other countries as well. 

L.A. PD has come a long way. they now try very hard to be liked in our society/community. that doesnt mean they will not kick someone sorry ass if they go out of line or are in the wrong side of the law. 

yes, its cool and hip to record cops abusing power and doing "strong" thing to citizens... but why doesnt anyone record them doing their job? cuz its kind of a boring facebook post? maybe there are a lot more of those? 
just see the crimemappings in major cities. im pretty glad US cops are doing their job correctly and not harras, punch and demand bribes for no reason like the ones ive encounter in other countries. 

i know its cool and hip to be that leftist , agaisnt the system and cops are a tool etc etc, but its not until you see how much they have to deal in a daily basis that makes everyone realize why they have to act in a strong manner sometimes.


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## gsilbers (Aug 25, 2014)

KEnK @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> I have cops in my family- inlaws.
> 
> Not all cops are the same (not so obvious to everyone)
> But some (I believe very few) are looking for the opportunity to fill someone w/ bullets,
> ...



i mostly agree with you. 
more programs for the mentally ill will help. but then you get more into that left and right argument about handouts , socialism etc. but a lot of mentalli ill and homless are because of substance abuse. more programs to help with this imo will benefit all. 

also, there is a LOT more crime in hispanic and black neighborhoods. so if cops pull over more of those races, then its not that those are being targeted... its just simple statistics. plus there is plenty of black and hispanic cops. this doesnt mean its ok and there is no fault. but i dont think its cops being a=holes and getting them in prison, i think its a few layers above cops. its electoral districs, better funding for schools and after school programs, college scholarships etc to help out those neigborhoods. and also better jobs. money goes to prisons to house these minotorties and instead of better education and jobs.


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 25, 2014)

One thing that I should mention is that my cop friends are in the Pacific Northwest. Our cops are fairly mellow here as is the populace. (Of course, there are exceptions.)

By contrast, my wife went to school in New Jersey for a couple of years recently. She saw the bad cop attitude first hand - and this was in high-income Madison. Her black friends we afraid to go out after dark as they had a deep fear of the cops.

Different areas in the US can have sharply different attitudes.


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## gsilbers (Aug 25, 2014)

JonFairhurst @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> The police released the video. I believe this was to show that the cops followed protocol. Well, guess what? The protocol is F'd up!
> 
> We have mentally ill people in this country. Mental institutions were defunded, so many are on the streets. Many police departments have adopted a paranoid, authoritarian posture. This leads to shoot-first policies. Put this all together and mentally ill people are killed regularly by police.
> 
> ...




protocols are not baseless. 
there is plenty of cases of guys high on coke surviving a lot more rounds of bullets.


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## gsilbers (Aug 25, 2014)

adriancook @ Sat Aug 23 said:


> One of my deepest regrets about this country is our gum laws. Sorry, gun laws.



i agree. i get the idea of why citizens should have guns, but that goes far back to the revolution. with the US govnt now spending about 30-50% of their budgets on military... suddenly those NRA arguments are very weak. 

i am very against guns. but i try to be fair and also its dumb to think guns can be banned and completely taken away with so many already around. 
there is a big % of folks who are gun owners/right wings etc. so i think there should be guns, but there should be much better laws. getting a licence and keeping a liceince should be a lot more strict. pass mentally competence tests, no crime records, waiting period, registered gun , and not sell at conventions. which i think are not that crazy if having a car or a business has a lot more paperwork.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 25, 2014)

gsilbers, I find your reaction to be disgusting, considering that two police murdered someone in the live video Jeffrey posted. And just this morning Michael Brown's funeral was on the news networks. How can you see that and not get upset?

You're also insulting other people's intelligence, including mine, so I'm going to repeat what I said before, this time in different words: not one person who's posted in this thread is as stupid as you're saying we are. "Cool and and hip to be leftist." Screw that!

Of course most police do a good job the vast majority of the time. We're talking about when something different happens: murder by police officers! And police abuse.

This is an ongoing issue. Again, *every* riot in the US for at least the last 50 years was started over an incident of police brutality. People's rage boils over. Watts, Miami, Los Angeles, Ferguson...

So stop talking nursery school talk about how police officers have to deal with naughty people. That's obvious.


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## choc0thrax (Aug 25, 2014)

gsilbers @ Mon Aug 25 said:


> also, there is a LOT more crime in hispanic and black neighborhoods. so if cops pull over more of those races, then its not that those are being targeted... its just simple statistics.



Yeahh I doubt there's much profiling going on.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... tml#page=1

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/0 ... eally.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-prison ... avery/8289


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## gsilbers (Aug 25, 2014)

JonFairhurst @ Mon Aug 25 said:


> One thing that I should mention is that my cop friends are in the Pacific Northwest. Our cops are fairly mellow here as is the populace. (Of course, there are exceptions.)
> 
> By contrast, my wife went to school in New Jersey for a couple of years recently. She saw the bad cop attitude first hand - and this was in high-income Madison. Her black friends we afraid to go out after dark as they had a deep fear of the cops.
> 
> Different areas in the US can have sharply different attitudes.



true. i get more pulled over by burbank and pasadena cops than LA PD cops. 

LA pd cops are dealing with 1000 times more crimes and work. so if they see me with my cell phone while driving, or i am doing up to 40 miles above speed limit they dont care. 
on the other hand, burbank cops will stop folks for not doing a FULL stop on a stop sign. yet, all have been very courtious and coutious.
its not until there might be a threating situation that any cop goes from 0 to 100 in a second and that freaks everyone out. cops venture into wierd situations, one guy with a knife maybe can be stop with a taser... but who knows if he was fighting his cousin with a gun. or if he has bullet proof vest and has more guns... or its a neigbohood where other cops have died in similar situations. 

also, new jersey is pretty hard core in some areas up norht (newark etc). there are areas i would not venture at all no matter what time of day it is. if i were a cop there.. i would be doing the same things. those places just look like an ongoing rap video.


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 25, 2014)

I had a 2nd cousin, twice removed (and not removed enough!) who was an LAPD motorcycle cop during the 50s, 60s, and 70s. The guy was an absolute racist. I remember being about eight or nine years old at a family vacation where the guy spouted racist hate directly related to his job. I was shocked but too young to really do anything. Looking back, my parents should have demanded that either he leave or our family should have left. I guess they didn't want to ruin a beach vacation for the kids or start an in-family feud. Today, I would take action.

Yeah, that was decades ago, but he gave us some real insight into the LAPD culture at the time. Cultures don't change overnight.


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 25, 2014)

gsilbers @ Mon Aug 25 said:


> also, new jersey is pretty hard core in some areas up norht (newark etc). there are areas i would not venture at all no matter what time of day it is. if i were a cop there.. i would be doing the same things. those places just look like an ongoing rap video.



gsilbers, now you're talking out of the wrong end of your digestive system.

First, criticizing a place for looking like a rap video is clearly racist. Enough said.

Second, my wife was "up north" in Madison, which is...

_...86.75% White, 2.96% Black or African American, 0.12% Native American, 5.51% Asian, 0.01% Pacific Islander, 2.34% from other races, and 2.30% from two or more races. Hispanics or Latinos of any race were 8.87% of the population._

_...median household income was $106,070 (with a margin of error of +/- $8,499) and the median family income was $139,886 (+/- $18,117)._

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison,_New_Jersey

It's a picturesque little town that includes large, stone institutional buildings (colleges, courthouses, etc) and wealthy estates. My wife felt very safe walking there after dark. And her black friends were terrified by local police.

Even to my wife, the police were hard asses out there. She asked one on the street about local pedestrian laws (as she had just arrived), and she got the authoritarian, hard ass treatment. And if she (a white woman in her 40s) got treated bad, you can imagine how young black men might get treated there.


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## chimuelo (Aug 25, 2014)

If anyone is racist it's these wealthy jerk offs who tell blacks they aren't smart enough or good enough to make it without their assistance.
Rather than let blacks and poor whites try and work while still getting the support necessary to make them into productive people (rather than productive breeders) they are told if you work, you lose your benefits. 
But vote for us as the GOP will take your money away and make you work for a living.
Brilliant actually as I hear morons all of time telling me why they "can't" work, it's an American tragedy.

Then they close the Charter schools that show higher graduation rates and smarter kids, like the schools the wealthy redistributors send their kids to.
And the finishing blow was the way that vouchers (the way out of the ghetto for those seeking an education) are cut off.

There's you racism. 

Ferguson and Dellwood are the nicer Great Society neighborhoods in St. Louis too.
You want to see these excellent social programs in action..?
Google St. Louis Avenue and Goodfellow.
Surprised they didn't capture a shooting or robbery when they photographed the neighborhood for google map.


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## guydoingmusic (Aug 25, 2014)




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## JonFairhurst (Aug 25, 2014)

chimuelo @ Mon Aug 25 said:


> If anyone is racist it's these wealthy jerk offs who tell blacks they aren't smart enough or good enough to make it without their assistance.



You've changed the subject.

More prescient is the war on drugs. Until recently, the penalty for crack cocaine was 100x that of powdered cocaine. Now it's only 18x. Crack is for the poor, powder for the wealthy, and guess who goes to jail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crack_coca ... ted_States

Then you add in profiling, stop and frisk, and so on. Guess who gets criminal records?

And how do you establish a good career with a felony record?

And how do you support a family without a good career?

And so it goes.

I guess it makes sense if you own stock in a for-profit prison.

Back to your assertion, the Great Society programs have been reduced. Minimum wage has fallen compared to productivity and GDP due to inflation. In the last five years, homelessness is the only thing that seems to increase. If the Great Society programs were so lush, then why are people living on the street? The homeless just haven't cashed their checks yet?

No, this is about profiling, authoritarian policing, paranoia, and bad policies.

Here's a recent situation in Seattle. There was a shirtless, crazy white guy harassing people in a mall. People called security. The security guard arrived just as a black man entered the mall. The black man moved strangely to avoid the crazy guy. And the security guard went after the black man. The crowd yelled to him that he got the wrong guy. Didn't matter. The crazy guy walks while the innocent guy gets cuffs.

Growing up, a black friend of mine owned no car and walked everywhere. He was always getting taken to the police station. It didn't take long before all the cops knew him. One day, a homeowner reports a stolen TV. Sure enough, they arrest my friend. He says, "TV? You know I don't have a car." The cop replied, "you must have hidden it somewhere." 

Profiling is real. And it's wrong.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 25, 2014)

It is way, WAY past fcking time that black parents should have to have "the talk" with their sons. WAY past. It's disgusting that this is where we are in 2014.


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## chimuelo (Aug 26, 2014)

Well let's talk about profiling, and guess what, in Jennings, MO. right next to Ferguson/Cool Valley too.
My best friend since grade school is a black guitarist. I got lucky in music due to keyboard gear and skills so left the Great Society neighborhoods of St.Louis when I was 20 years old. He stayed behind, has always been gainfully employed, even after watching Karl Icon dissolve TWA.

We are re united again in pre production at a local business that went south, that turned into a rehearsal hall.
I hadn't been to Jennings for decades, it was always a black neighborhood, but while my parents trembled in fear when I gigged in STL city and N. County, I never worried as the brothas' there all knew me.

The Police force there is all black from what I have seen, and since I wasn't in Jennings for decades I forgot how to get to Daryls crib, so we met where Northland Music use to be, where I worked as a teen and bought my CS-80 for dealers costs + 10% which still cost me north of 6 large.
As I waited for him the drummer from Dago Hill (a racist all Italian neighborhood) arrived with the Bassist who has a large bleached hair do and tats.
Within a few minutes 2 patrol cars with 4 black officers asked us what we were doing as they looked into the Van, and asked why I came from Nevada to hang out in a parking lot known to be where robberies and drug deals occur.
I explained to them and they separately asked all of us why we were there, our stories matched and they let us go.

Should I have called Reverend Jerry Falwell, or Benny Hinn seeking words and advice from God, or just laugh it off as a case of parking while white.

Everytime we drive through there now after 6 months of pre production we are looked at, and my guess is they leave us alone as now they know who we are.

So I understand the profiling that goes on in Police work, and do not object to it yet, as I have never really been a victim, other than brief detainment while being questioned.

On another note, years ago I was gigging in East ST.Louis where whites are told not to go. But the band is all black, so I felt fine, but driving home was pulled over by State Troopers then sent to jail as I had a parking ticket there I was unaware of.
It was all black cops, black inmates, again Chimuelo was the only white guy, expecting the worst.

Black cops did their rounds and I was holding onto the bars pleading for a phone call to tell my daytime boss I wasn't coming in the next day.
Next thing I know a black inmate spit on the cop, naturally he raked at my fingers with his club, and then told me I was a dead M--tha f---ker.
Yes I shit my pants, then came 6 black cops, 1 for each inmate as 6 per cell was crowded and smelly. They walked 10 feet apart asking questions and obviously the brothas' said it wasn't the white guy but a black inmate.
They lined us up in another large cell with a drain in the center of the room, pulled 5 of us forward, leaving the black piece of shit behind, who was then bathed by the fire hose and 5 cops holding it still. Blew his afro into a whole new shape, as back then Link from the Mod Squad was the trend.

No matter what kind of rhetoric I hear from the Reverends and white Liberals, I have lived the lie, and know that what we are told in the media and from our leaders trying to divide us, this is total bull shit.

Although profiling is a reality, it is not exclusively a black issue, and never will be but after every new riot and looting spree, followed by the great dividers and civil rights industry leaders, it will get worse as young blacks never get to hear how we all lived in the very same community together without any problems.

I cannot comment any further, my fingers are meant to play keys, not type for days on end about wealth redistribution and those who actually prosper from it....

Carry On..


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## José Herring (Aug 26, 2014)

gsilbers @ Mon Aug 25 said:


> also, there is a LOT more crime in hispanic and black neighborhoods. so if cops pull over more of those races, then its not that those are being targeted... its just simple statistics. plus there is plenty of black and hispanic cops. this doesnt mean its ok and there is no fault. but i dont think its cops being a=holes and getting them in prison, i think its a few layers above cops. its electoral districs, better funding for schools and after school programs, college scholarships etc to help out those neighborhoods. and also better jobs. money goes to prisons to house these minorities and instead of better education and jobs.



This is not true. I'll give an example.

2 people I've known. Both drug dealers. One dealing crack on the streets, gets popped by the police and does time. The other, an upper middle class white woman, who dealt cocaine out of her up scale New York apt. She got away with it. Both committed crimes, one is visible, one is almost social acceptable.

At the time a person dealing crack on the streets would get a sentence that was 100X greater than the girl dealing coke out of her upscale flat. If she got caught and she didn't, she probably wouldn't even serve time (that's my opinion).

Another factor, blacks and Hispanic neighborhoods tend to be in larger cities. White meth dealers tend to be in smaller rural areas. Larger cities can afford police departments while rural areas would barely be covered.

A criminal mentality is unfortunately common to all races, it just seems that blacks and Hispanics get popped more for it in America for the reasons I described above. A street dealer is easy to grab. A dealer dealing out of her upscale apartment or in a smaller rural areas won't even hit the police radar.

So as far as being busted of a crime, it's all about location, location, location and type of crime. But, IT DOES NOT mean that blacks and Hispanics are committing more crimes, they're just getting busted more often. AND I WISH JACKASSES LIKE YOU WOULD GET THAT BEFORE SPOUTING YOUR HATRED.


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 26, 2014)

Another anecdote:

I met Greg Oden once. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Oden

The 273 lb, 7 foot center was on a multi-million dollar contract with the Portland Trialblazers. Unfortunately, he had re-injured his knee and was walking with a cane during all star week.

Where did I meet him? He was being checked for shoplifting while exiting the local WalMart. Yes, a dedicated, hard working millionaire accused of shoplifting.

This has nothing to do with people getting free rides. If it did, the police would be going after trust fund babies.


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## chimuelo (Aug 26, 2014)

I have the answer.

Negroes patrol black neighborhoods, Latinos patrol Latino neighborhoods, Indians do the Reservations, Whites do the gated communities where wealthy redistributors decide who gets to be successful or not, Arab folks guard their neighborhoods, and Jews take over their neighborhood patrols.

In this way commerce can be conducted.

When people want to buy meth or coke in it's powdered from, they go the white neighborhoods.

You need rock cocaine, you go to the black neighborhoods.

Need to pray at a mosque, go the Arab neighborhood.
Need a Bagel, go to the synagogue.

Need any of the drugs mentioned above in quantity, go to the Latino neighborhoods.

Entering any of the neighborhoods you do not reside in you must be frisked by TSA and questioned.

Now it will be all races faults when they fail to protect themselves instead of the same old white guy nonsense.

Also, white people wearing their pants below their butt cheeks must be sprayed with fragrance as the scent of a mans rectum should be considered lude and unlawful.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 26, 2014)

> You've changed the subject.



Chim? He never changes his subject. 

And what Jose says. I've never met a black person who doesn't know what racism feels like all the time (or at least who said otherwise when the subject came up).


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 26, 2014)

Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Aug 26 said:


> And what Jose says. I've never met a black person who doesn't know what racism feels like all the time (or at least who said otherwise when the subject came up).



Ditto.

And while it's just (maybe deeply) annoying when some random person shows disrespect, it affects one's life when it's institutional in housing, education, and employment. It's serous when it comes to policing. And when people can shoot your kids without consequences, it's tragic.


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## Astronaut FX (Aug 26, 2014)

Here's what I don't get…go back and re-watch the video in the first post of the thread. After the shooting, count how many times the police officers have to ask the spectators to move back to the corner. Repeatedly. Over and over. At one point, they tell a guy literally, "turn around and walk."

Ok, if I had just witnessed someone (of any color) get shot by the police, I would not need to be asked or told twice by that same police force to do something.

How many shootings like this have to occur for people to finally put it together, that when you fail to comply with a police officer, bad things can happen? Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that by simply not complying with an officer, you should be shot and killed. But what I'm saying is, I find it utterly baffling how learning disabled people can be that we continually see things like this happen, and yet we continually see folks ignore requests/commands from officers. 

If for no other reason beyond self-preservation…do what the hell they tell you to do! They have a right to go home to their families every night, and if put in a situation in which they feel it's them or you…you aren't likely to win.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 26, 2014)

Tone Deaf @ Tue Aug 26 said:


> Here's what I don't get…go back and re-watch the video in the first post of the thread. After the shooting, count how many times the police officers have to ask the spectators to move back to the corner. Repeatedly. Over and over. At one point, they tell a guy literally, "turn around and walk."
> 
> Ok, if I had just witnessed someone (of any color) get shot by the police, I would not need to be asked or told twice by that same police force to do something.
> 
> ...



What you're saying is true, yet you have neatly stepped around the question of race. I have no black friends who have not been questioned or detained on suspicion of something or other. Institutionalized racism and bad standards are both germane to this conversation.


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## RiffWraith (Aug 26, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Wed Aug 27 said:


> I have no black friends who have not been questioned or detained on suspicion of something or other. Institutionalized racism and bad standards are both germane to this conversation.



Funny. Out of all the black people I know (admittedly not dozens), I know ONE who claims he was profiled. And that was a traffic stop. I know no black people who were questioned or detained on suspicion of something or other b/c they were black. And I grew up and lived for 37 years in NYC.

I am not saying it doesn't happen, but...

Cheers.


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## guydoingmusic (Aug 26, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Tue Aug 26 said:


> NYC Composer @ Wed Aug 27 said:
> 
> 
> > I have no black friends who have not been questioned or detained on suspicion of something or other. Institutionalized racism and bad standards are both germane to this conversation.
> ...



I can honestly say... it happens down south a lot more than you think.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 26, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Tue Aug 26 said:


> NYC Composer @ Wed Aug 27 said:
> 
> 
> > I have no black friends who have not been questioned or detained on suspicion of something or other. Institutionalized racism and bad standards are both germane to this conversation.
> ...



"102"


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## RiffWraith (Aug 26, 2014)

Ha!


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## choc0thrax (Aug 27, 2014)

Not to go off topic but speaking about the whole gun culture thing this happened today: http://www.8newsnow.com/story/26373422/breaking-news-shooting-instructor-accidentally-shot-by-girl-9-dies (http://www.8newsnow.com/story/26373422/ ... irl-9-dies)


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 27, 2014)

choc0thrax @ Wed Aug 27 said:


> Not to go off topic but speaking about the whole gun culture thing this happened today: http://www.8newsnow.com/story/26373422/breaking-news-shooting-instructor-accidentally-shot-by-girl-9-dies (http://www.8newsnow.com/story/26373422/ ... irl-9-dies)



Yeah.

Now, I'm sure most Americans will be horrified at the idea that it is a sensible thing to do to let a 9 year old girl try an Uzi. It's hard to convey, however, the gulf that exists in trying to understand it from the outside, that the culture of a country had become so warped that both officials and parents figured there was nothing wrong with giving it a go.

Good luck to the poor kid, utterly failed by her society and parents, in getting over it.


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## AC986 (Aug 27, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Wed Aug 27 said:


> choc0thrax @ Wed Aug 27 said:
> 
> 
> > Not to go off topic but speaking about the whole gun culture thing this happened today: http://www.8newsnow.com/story/26373422/breaking-news-shooting-instructor-accidentally-shot-by-girl-9-dies (http://www.8newsnow.com/story/26373422/ ... irl-9-dies)
> ...



Dunno. Maybe they could have taught all 1400 plus young girls of Rotheram how to use a 9mm Uzi. At least they would have had a fighting chance as compared to the cunts who were supposed to be protecting them.


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## Astronaut FX (Aug 27, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Tue Aug 26 said:


> Tone Deaf @ Tue Aug 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Here's what I don't get…go back and re-watch the video in the first post of the thread. After the shooting, count how many times the police officers have to ask the spectators to move back to the corner. Repeatedly. Over and over. At one point, they tell a guy literally, "turn around and walk."
> ...



I didn't sidestep so much as I recognized enough had been said about it, and my point hadn't been brought up yet.

However, I can personally relate to profiling to a minor degree (please take note that I'm specifying "to a minor degree"). I'm a 47 year old white male. When I was younger, probably from age 18 through around 30, I wore my hair long. As such, I fit the profile of the long-haired hippie pot head...the whole sex/drugs/rock-n-roll thing. But that was in appearance only. I did not use (and still don't) illegal drugs, was a good student, good citizen, etc. However, I can't tell you how many times I was stopped (traffic stops or otherwise) and/or questioned simply because of my appearance. 

It bothered me, but I somewhat understood it. And each time, I knew I had done nothing wrong, and had nothing to hide, so I treated the officer with respect, answered his questions, complied with his requests, and I'm alive today to tell you about it.

Just because you're profiled (rightfully so or otherwise) doesn't mean you have to end up dead. You are a partial owner of the outcome by virtue of your reaction to it.


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## José Herring (Aug 27, 2014)

Tone Deaf @ Wed Aug 27 said:


> NYC Composer @ Tue Aug 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Tone Deaf @ Tue Aug 26 said:
> ...



You cut your hair and the harassment ended. I can't change the color of my skin so it's always a concern as it relates to this mostly paranoid society.

There are racist cops. No doubt about it. There are cops looking to kill blacks and Hispanics.

I was stopped for the first time on my college campus. I was 17 years old. I was never a trouble maker but it takes you off guard and you do get mad especially at a young age. I had no fear particularly. Still don't. So when the cop stopped me to question me, in front of all my white friends, I sounded off. Luckily, nothing happened to me and they just let me go. But, it could have gone the other way too.

Ever since then, I just give them the non threatening negro smile. You know the one that puts white people at ease. The smile that Obama has down so well. That usually defuses all situations from a traffic stop to some white lady clutching her purse, to walking down the street while black in my mostly white neighborhood. 

0oD There. I bet I set you at ease already.


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## AC986 (Aug 27, 2014)

josejherring @ Wed Aug 27 said:


> You cut your hair and the harassment ended. I can't change the color of my skin so it's always a concern as it relates to this mostly paranoid society.



If a new miracle drug could change the colour of your skin, to lets say white for arguments sake, would you do it? And how many white people would change their skin colour to black?

Me? I would go for orange and support The Netherlands, but I'm weird Like that.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 27, 2014)

Guy, it's hard to understand the stupidity of gun perverts from inside the country too.

Not all 300 million Americans are morons, believe it or not. It's just that the morons are louder than normal people.


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 27, 2014)

I've got an idea. Here we go...

1) Prisons are dangerous.
2) The inmates do not have guns.
2) Guns make things safe.
3) So we should arm all inmates.

Problem solved!


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## NYC Composer (Aug 27, 2014)

Nick Batzdorf @ Wed Aug 27 said:


> Guy, it's hard to understand the stupidity of gun perverts from inside the country too.
> 
> Not all 300 million Americans are morons, believe it or not. It's just that the morons are louder than normal people.



"The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."

W.B. Yeats, "Second Coming"

Still, it's not good to tar all gun owners with the same brush. Many many gun owners are responsible and sane. There's nothing inherently crazy about owning guns for home protection in isolated, non urban areas, or for hunting. What's truly insane is allowing loopholes, black markets and other venues for the mentally unbalanced and criminal to procure weapons, insufficient background checks and registration, etc. The state of mental health care here is criminal as well. 

On the other hand, this country is so disorganized it can't even keep a simple no- fly list current nor properly enforce one. The underwear bomber's FATHER called law enforcement about his OWN SON- and he was still able to fly. Chilling, the breakdown of simple systems. It makes one feel that everything is in disrepair- like broken toys in a corner.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 27, 2014)

What I wrote is that all gun *perverts* are morons.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 27, 2014)

Owners and perverts are two different things.

There's only about a 98% overlap.


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## Astronaut FX (Aug 27, 2014)

josejherring @ Wed Aug 27 said:


> Tone Deaf @ Wed Aug 27 said:
> 
> 
> > You cut your hair and the harassment ended. I can't change the color of my skin so it's always a concern as it relates to this mostly paranoid society.
> ...



I was not trying to equate my experience to yours. But I believe that mine at least afforded me a glimpse into yours. Maybe not a full mile in your shoes, but at least a stroll around the block in them. So yes, I do have at least some experience in being treated a certain way simply because of my appearance.


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## AC986 (Aug 28, 2014)

I like the latest one In Omaha, Nebraska with the TV program, plastic pellet gun and also, will the white community be taking to the streets on this one?


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## chimuelo (Aug 28, 2014)

So glad I live where there's a Farm on every corner. 
These people have strong political views but never riot, shoot each other, they just get it out of their system while eating ribs, drinking beer and yelling "you suck" at the politicians.
Here' 2 great videos if you want to see how people should resolve their differences.

Here's the gal I like a lot, but she is also stupid for being filmed at a fundraiser in DC where she showed her constituents how she really feels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgBN2fw9bLk

Then on the other hand McConnell is equally wishy/washy but smart enough to know what cell phones are capable of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8rXsZgO4Uo

It's unbelievable nobody ever gets hurt as this is damn rowdy, and you know you are free when you can yell "You Suck" and "fuck You" at a wealthy redistributor trying to convince you that after 30 years, they need a few more years to get it right. The Ribs and HushPuppies were incredible. Cold Beer by the Keg, perty girls.... o-[][]-o 

To hell with city life and armored cars, looters so stupid they rob the dollar store, etc.

I like it here. Right up the street from Memphis' Beale Street gigs, Nashville and St. Louis, the landing and Riverboats there is like a mini Vegas, just stay out of the redistribution centers.


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## AC986 (Aug 28, 2014)

American are always saying 'it's great to be back".

Who's the American gal who said 'Fuck the EU'?

Kentuckians! My YouTube golf instructor Clay Ballard is a Kentuckian if my judgement of accent is anything to go on. I also look forward to saying "it's great to be back in Kentucky" but it would be a lie because I've never actually been there.

I would like to go there and also 'unveil' my foreign policy but there isn't enough Valium in the world that's going to make me do that.

Oh! I see Fancy Farm Picnickers think Obama sucks. There's a turn up for the books. 

Suddenly everything according to Mitch sounds familiar.

Keep me informed as events in West Kentucky unfold. o[])


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 28, 2014)

JonFairhurst @ Wed Aug 27 said:


> I've got an idea. Here we go...
> 
> 1) Prisons are dangerous.
> 2) The inmates do not have guns.
> ...



Can't fault your logic - the perfect end game.


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## choc0thrax (Aug 28, 2014)

Sitting on a bench while black = taser & arrest http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2014 ... eo.php#_=_


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 28, 2014)

^ Not good.


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 28, 2014)

That's nuts.

And it shows a problem with policing. An officer demands something ("Papers please") and whether or not you are legally compelled to comply, the officers will not back away from the demand. If you don't comply, things will escalate and eventually force will be used. 

Rewind the tape before the incident, and you wonder why the police didn't confront - or just laugh at - the person who made the original complaint. "There's a suspicious looking black man sitting on a bench." The police should have asked if the complainer saw any suspicious actions. "No, he's just sitting there." The police could have then just observed the man. They'd see him sitting on a bench, probably looking at his phone. And then they should have walked away.

It's a classic example of over-policing people of color.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge7i60GuNRg


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## chimuelo (Aug 30, 2014)

Over policing of everything actually.
According to modern day regulators/lawyers/legislators all of us from the 60-70's should have been dead by now.

Scenario 1: 
Jack goes quail hunting before school and then pulls into the school parking lot with his shotgun in his truck's gun rack.
1967 - Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack. 
2014 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers. 

Scenario 2: 
Johnny and Mark get into a fist fight after school. 
1967 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies. 
2014 - Police called and SWAT team arrives -- they arrest both Johnny and Mark. They are both charged with assault and both expelled even though Johnny started it . 

Scenario 3: 
Jeffrey will not be still in class, he disrupts other students. 
1967 - Jeffrey sent to the Principal's office and given a good paddling by the Principal. He then returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again. 
2014 - Jeffrey is given huge doses of Ritalin. He becomes a zombie. He is then tested for ADD. The family gets extra money (SSI) from the government because Jeffrey has a disability. 

Scenario 4: 
Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt. 
1967 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college and becomes a successful businessman. 
2014 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse, Billy is removed to foster care and joins a gang. The state psychologist is told by Billy's sister that she remembers being abused (spanked) herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has an affair with the psychologist. 

Scenario 5: Scenario 5: 
Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school. 
1967 - Mark shares his aspirin with the Principal out on the smoking dock. 
2014 - The police are called and Mark is expelled from school for drug violations. His car is then searched for drugs and weapons. 

Scenario 6: 
Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from the Fourth of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle and blows up a red ant bed. 
1967 - Ants die. 
2014 - ATF, Homeland Security and the FBI are all called. Johnny is charged with domestic terrorism. The FBI investigates his parents - and all siblings are removed from their home and all computers are confiscated. Johnny's dad is placed on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again. 

Scenario 7: 
Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him. 
1967 - In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing. 
2014 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy.

The upside is we have a much more inclusive society where degrees from Colleges for Gender Awareness and Behavioral studies transfer into legislation for the commoners who no longer are capable of taking care of themselves and require "experts."


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## dpasdernick (Aug 31, 2014)

It's pretty easy to arm chair quarterback every one of these tragedies. This sh*t happens fast. Faster than we watch it here in the sense that the adrenaline is pumping like mad. I'd hate to be a police officer these days. Damned if you do, dead if you don't. I really don't believe any police officer is driving around going "who can I kill today?" but maybe I'm naive.


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## chimuelo (Sep 1, 2014)

Well if they're in a Great Society Neighborhood it's more like "who is training their Scope on me today."
With any luck some folks receiving redistributed wealth can get twice the amount for patrolling their own neighborhood.

But that's a long shot. Just like the economic geniuses teaching class in colleges all have these awesome sounding utopian vision's figured out, yet can't seem to create one in the real world, even after the un elected professors had trillions to redistribute.
They complained it wasn't enough and needed trillions more.
Having failed, went right back to make believe land at some University to teach others how to fail.

Confusing times.


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