# Custom Studio Desk



## Lukas K (Aug 26, 2015)

Hey guys,

I would like to show you a sketch and a little animation of a studio desk I designed.



I wanted to come up with a design, that would allow me to use both keyboard+mouse and a midi controller in the same height, but at the same time have the ability to move the keyboard tray out of the way, so I can reach the midi controller just like when playing the real piano.

The only thing I struggle with is figuring out that left-right sliding system of a keyboard tray. I've already contacted couple carpenters and they struggle with it as well. I got some ideas that might work, but wanted to ask you guys for your thoughts.

Thanks a lot! 

Lukas


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## Cowtothesky (Aug 26, 2015)

Looks awesome. 

How about having the keyboard tray slide under the midi controller? So they can both slide in and out of the way. It could protect from dust too. The keyboard tray would have to be a little lower, which might be an issue. Like the design though. Nice work.


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## Lukas K (Aug 26, 2015)

Thanks for the tip! Yes, unfortunately that would be an issue, because it can't go any lower if I can fit my knees under it  I also browsed the internet to see if I can find some adjustable keyboard tray like Humanscale etc., but there is not enough room for it to slide under the midi controller because of the drawers on the left.

That's why I probably lean more to this left-right sliding solution, but looking for the best way of doing it (stability and practicality wise).


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## d.healey (Aug 26, 2015)

This is what I did, I have the desk at a kind of standard height for a computer desk, maybe a little higher, and the midi keyboard tray just underneath with plenty of room for my legs, there is no arm strain when using either the keyboard/mouse or the midi keyboard. I think it would be uncomfortably low for me to have the keyboard/mouse at the same level as the piano, and same if the piano was at the higher level.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 26, 2015)

I'd suggest making the desktop slide, not the keyboard. That way you're always the right distance from the computer monitor and speakers.

This is the desk we sell. Yes I'm a total slut, but I'm posting this knowing that it wouldn't work for you - it's just to make the point.

http://www.virtualinstrumentsmag.com/composersdesk/FullDesk_Ad.pdf


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## jacobthestupendous (Aug 26, 2015)

What if you raise the whole thing up six inches or more, put the keyboard/mouse on a sliding tray under the MIDI controller, and get a barber's chair to sit in so you can change your seated height (and related knee clearance) as your input needs change?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 26, 2015)

I like having the MIDI keyboard at standard playing height (keys 28-1/2 - 29-1/2" above the ground) and the sliding desktop a little higher. The computer keyboard/mouse are at the front of the desktop for typing, with my arms on chair arms. It's very comfortable - I type all day long.

And then when I slide the desktop forward for playing - which takes literally half a second - the computer keyboard/mouse are in position right above it for sequencing.

I'm not a fan of computer keyboards below the desktop, because it puts strain on your forearms, arms, shoulders, neck... But if I wanted that I'd just make a thin shelf that attaches to the front of the MIDI keyboard shelf. A couple of pieces of doweling that go into holes would work, for example. You'd just pick the whole thing up and stick it on the desk - as long as the keyboard and mouse are wireless.


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## brett (Aug 26, 2015)

I think ergonomically you are supposed to have your arms at roughly 90 degrees while working. Since I use my computer kb and mouse 90% of the time I get that right and the the music keyboard is (unfortunately) higher than I'd like. Most people go the other way 'round but that is what makes sense to me

Nick is right though in the sense that ideally you should keep your ears the same distance from your monitors so if you have to have sliders have the music keyboard sliding towards you. 

B


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## Lukas K (Aug 27, 2015)

Thanks a lot guys for your inputs!

Nick, I understand your philosophy and know your studio desk design well. However, I don't want any compromises regarding the height of both keyboard and midi controller. I copy what Brett said about using keyboard and mouse 90% of the time (probably even more), and I'm satisfied with the height they're in on my current desk. But my midi controller is unbearably high, sitting on my desktop so I have no space for other things on my table at all. If I want to play the piano, I adjust my chair height, but it definitely isn't the best solution.

That's why I designed it this way. 90% of the time I'm gonna have the midi controller hidden under the desktop, with the keyboard tray in the proper height, and if I want to play the piano I would slide the keyboard tray to the right and slide the bigger midi controller tray closer to me. I would still sit in the same distance from my monitors, even though it requires two motions instead of one 

I will post a new animation of (hopefully) satisfying solution I came up with in couple hours.


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## Lukas K (Aug 27, 2015)

Here it is  That blue part would be made of steel/iron or something as well as the red part. Both would be black in reality. The only thing I'm not sure is how to attach that blue part to the wooden tray, so it handles the weight while using the keyboard/mouse and also I'm not sure about the stability of the keyboard/mouse tray. The last thing to figure out is putting something inside of that angular "hook" to make it slide smoothly without destroying the surface of the blue part 

Any ideas are welcome!


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## Øivind (Aug 27, 2015)

how about having the keyboard dock slide inn/out of the midikeyboard dock?
tried to do a quick sketch here. And when you slide it in, you can just put your keyboard
and mouse in one of the shelves or drawers on the side.

This will make them all the same height and on the same plate/board.

Might need to have a bigger cut out and deeper board to make the keyboard/mouse
plate stable when in use.

Sketch is from above.


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## Lukas K (Aug 27, 2015)

Interesting idea, but I don't think I would enjoy having to put the keyboard/mouse away from the tray to be able to slide it in every time.

But thanks a lot for the sketch!


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## Øivind (Aug 27, 2015)

Np  If you have wireless mouse/keyboard it could work very pretty well. But cable would probably be a bit of a hassle indeed.

Unless if you want to use the mouse keyboard at the same time as using the midi keyboard, then probably your slide out with a swing towards the end could work. Then again, maybe not hehe.

For smooth sliding, maybe some tiny ball bearings or small wheels will make it smooth.


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## Lukas K (Aug 27, 2015)

Yeah, that would be best, but I got no idea how to create such a system


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## Ozymandias (Aug 27, 2015)

Rather than create your own sliding mechanism (which seems like a lot of work with an uncertain outcome), how about attaching the tray to a pair of ball-bearing drawer slides? 

Mount them flush with the edge of the desk, one facing up and one facing down:


```
top slide    ---------- (extending rail facing up)
DESK         ========== (barrel bolts through desk, clamping them together)
bottom slide ---------- (extending rail facing down)
```


Then mount your tray to both extending rails.

Drawer slides are not intended to be used like this, of course, but good quality ones may tolerate this kind of abuse.

Just an idea.


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## Øivind (Aug 27, 2015)

i am probably grasping at straws now, and this might look terrible ^^
Old fashioned swing arm with slidable trey. ^^


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## chillbot (Aug 27, 2015)

There are a lot of interesting ideas in this thread that might help:

http://vi-control.net/community/threads/solved-where-to-put-the-keyboard.39096/#post-3797979


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## chillbot (Aug 27, 2015)

I directed the link to my post in that thread.... I know it is not what you want but just throwing it out there as an idea. I am a piano player and I have zero problems using the piano keyboard just behind my computer computer, provided it's sunk down 3 inches or so. The top of the piano keyboard is the same height as the top of the computer keyboard. Granted I use the computer keyboard probably 80% of the time but I never have to adjust my chair or my posture to use the piano keyboard... I may scoot my chair in a couple inches if I'm going to be busy on the piano, that's about it. Given that most people use the computer keyboard the majority of the time, the trade off in stability is well-worth it in my opinion, not to have to type on anything that may sway or feel flimsy. If you were in LA I would say you should come by and try it out.


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## jacobthestupendous (Aug 27, 2015)

You could make a motorized pulley suspension system and hang the keyboard from the ceiling. You pick the height for the situation and raise it out of the way when it's piano time. More ridiculous than all these custom sliding things, but also probably way easier to implement.


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## d.healey (Aug 27, 2015)

chillbot said:


> I directed the link to my post in that thread.... I know it is not what you want but just throwing it out there as an idea. I am a piano player and I have zero problems using the piano keyboard just behind my computer computer, provided it's sunk down 3 inches or so. The top of the piano keyboard is the same height as the top of the computer keyboard. Granted I use the computer keyboard probably 80% of the time but I never have to adjust my chair or my posture to use the piano keyboard... I may scoot my chair in a couple inches if I'm going to be busy on the piano, that's about it. Given that most people use the computer keyboard the majority of the time, the trade off in stability is well-worth it in my opinion, not to have to type on anything that may sway or feel flimsy. If you were in LA I would say you should come by and try it out.


I like this design, I might use it on my next desk project


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## Lukas K (Aug 28, 2015)

Thanks guys, lot of inspiring ideas!

@Ozymandias I'm not sure how and where exactly should I attach those rails. A sketch would help but that would be a difficult one 

@oivind_rosvold That arm mechanism is a good idea but it could have some stability issues since it wouldn't be attached to the bigger tray with the front edge. Also, it would take a little more space around the desk because of the arm. Hmm...

@chillbot Thanks for the link! I like your desk but it would be somewhat similar to what I have now, except of the lower midi controller position which is nice. But I also need some space on my desk to put things on (finally). You got it covered with those side parts of the desk, but I don't have that much room for such a desk.

@jacobthestupendous Funny and original idea but the room would get a look of some sci-fi spaceship I'm afraid  There are some arm mechanisms that can be attached to a corner of a desk, but it looks kinda robust and ugly IMO. Also not sure how stable such a tray is. But who knows 

Thanks again guys, lot of MacGyvers here


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 28, 2015)

For what it's worth, my arms are level (right angle) when I type, and I'm typing more than playing the keyboard too. The desktop surface is only 3" above the tops of the white keys, so it's not as radical as it sounds.


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## brett (Aug 28, 2015)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> For what it's worth, my arms are level (right angle) when I type, and I'm typing more than playing the keyboard too. The desktop surface is only 3" above the tops of the white keys, so it's not as radical as it sounds.



Yes, but you have armrests getting your arms higher otherwise there would be no way you could get the midi kb underneath. 

I thought I needed armrests for the longest while but after some advice (and soothing) by a very good physio have ditched them. Now I can get closer to the desk and neck and shoulder issues have reduced. Note that this requires better arm / wrist position on the desk itself and if you have wrist issues it's not for you of course. However a lot of large organizations ban armrests for these reasons. ymmv!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 28, 2015)

No. I'll post a picture when I get a chance. My arms are at a comfortable height.

Now, there's more than one way to be comfortable, and our bodies are all different. But this setup works very well. I've been sitting at this desk and the one that led to it for at least 15 years, all day long.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 28, 2015)

Oh oh oh, I just re-read your post, Brett.

Yes, I have armrests. But I maintain that if you don't have them, you must rest your wrists - or better yet your forearms - on your desk. If you don't, you tense up your muscles to support them, and that's what leads to wrist and other problems.

I actually do both: rest my forearms on chair arms and my wrists on the front of the desk.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 28, 2015)

This is a really bad shot from five years ago, but it shows what I'm talking about. Arms straight out, no tension anywhere.


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## creativeforge (Aug 28, 2015)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> This is a really bad shot from five years ago, but it shows what I'm talking about. Arms straight out, no tension anywhere.



Nick, what is the height from the floor to the top of the desk where the keyboard is? I love the setup...


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## synthetic (Aug 29, 2015)

Pay attention to the synth/keyboard height comments. Ergonomics is a big deal, especially if you get that killer opportunity and need to work 16-hour days. If you're set on having them both on the same height, I would make a temporary desk with a sheet of plywood at that height and live with it for a while. 

When I built http://www.jefflaity.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=106 (my desk), I compromised the typey keyboard height to get the synth keyboard height where I wanted it. I have them one over another. I couldn't have dropped the controller keyboard much more because it already hits my knees. 

If you look at pro custom desks like Beijer, they gut the keyboard and built it into the desk like a piano. That saves a bunch of space, both vertical and depth. Of course you're stuck with that keyboard for life after that. If you spill a Mai Tai into it like ...a friend of mine did, you might have trouble getting that exact one again.


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## creativeforge (Aug 29, 2015)

I've thought about this situation for a long time, and looking at your pic, I thought I'd try something. Do you think this cold work in the real world? It would be a sliding panel for the keyboard/mouse. Of course that wouldn't work if you need BOTH at the same time...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 29, 2015)

> Nick, what is the height from the floor to the top of the desk where the keyboard is? I love the setup...



On mine it's 32" to the desktop, with the tops of the white keys at 29" above the floor like a piano. But Synthetic is right - you want to minimize the space between the controller keyboard shelf and the desktop. We customize the dimensions to make the bottom of the sliding desktop 1/4" above the top of the controller.

Obviously the sliding desktop has to be a little higher than standard desks are (unless the controller keyboard is lower than normal), but it's still comfortable.

And to repeat myself, I'd strongly recommend sliding the desktop, not the keyboard! You're always the right distance from your computer monitor and speakers that way, plus your computer keyboard/mouse are always in the right position.

I can tell you what drawer slides to get too, if you get serious about this.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 29, 2015)

I measured a few pianos, and the white keys were between 28-1/2" and 29-1/2" above the floor.

So with my Kurzweil K2500X controller and a 3/4" thick desktop, it's 3" from the tops of the white keys to the top of the sliding desktop.


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