# CineSamples vs. Spitfire



## Sami (Aug 11, 2017)

Hello to everyone!
Hoping you can help me with the little conundrum I'm in.
I'm a classically trained composer, used to working with live orchestras and I'm trained in "conventional" orchestration, i.e. using Violins I, II divisi, detailed part writing etc.. As I'm starting out with using a DAW for composing I am looking for a complete symphonic orchestra with a suitable sound for my needs. Having listened into both Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra and CineSamples (Strings/Winds/Brass/Perc) products, I believe that Spitfire is the more appropriate for standard orchestral music while CS seems more grand, maybe to the detriment of realism.
What entices me about CS is the perceived "ease of use" for someone who is just starting out with using a DAW (they themselves advertise their libraries as being "composer friendly"). Also, the price for the complete bundle (with EDU discount) is unbeatable at around 1500 including solo strings and percussion and even with Hollywoodwinds thrown in, whereas one gets painfully close to 2000 with Spitfire including Sacconi and Percussion.
Now my questions for you guys:
(1) Is CS suitable for writing orchestral music in the conventional sense or is it impossible to get the "film cue" feeling out of the samples (obviously this is down to the choice of samples, but bear with me here)
(2) Is CS as "composer-friendly" as advertised?
(3) What are the weaknesses of Spitfire? Everyone seems to love them, but does anyone actually really prefer CS for something over Spitfire? Does Spitfire have some particularly nasty samples?
(4) How bad is the lack of ensembles (a2 etc.) in CS? Can it be remedied by triggering the same sample twice with some adjustment between them to create a feeling of having two instruments?

Hardware requirements are not an issue, sufficient PCIe storage and RAM is available and slaves can be procured if need be. This discussion shall only be about the samples :D

What would you recommend to someone who is very experienced writing scores but not at all using DAWs and virtual instruments/ "MIDI massaging (whatever that means)". I own Albion ONE (which I quite like) and Berlin Orchestra Inspire.
Thanks in advance,

Sami


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## wcreed51 (Aug 11, 2017)

Why haven't you looked at VSL?


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## Sami (Aug 11, 2017)

wcreed51 said:


> Why haven't you looked at VSL?


Cause I was looking for something wetter, not sure I have the skills in mixing/reverb etc. to make it sound good. Also Kontakt, I guess. Which package were you suggesting and what is your opinion on it vs. the others? 
Cheers.


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## ctsai89 (Aug 11, 2017)

Cinesamples has good brass libraries where as spitfire also has a good brass library except for its quite inconsistent to the point you would probably be annoyed of it.

Spitfire to my knowledge hired some of the best players with the best instruments (rarified) in the best (subjective) sounding hall. And their sound reflect exactly that.


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## Maestro1972 (Aug 11, 2017)

Most composers I know use different libraries, capitalizing on their strengths. For instance, I know a lot of composers that use Spitfire strings, CineSamples Brass, and Berlin Woodwinds. I know it's not a "this is the best" answer but I hope it helps.


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## VinRice (Aug 11, 2017)

Don't fight it - you will eventually end up with both...


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## Kent (Aug 11, 2017)

If you want divisi strings, though... there is only one right answer.


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## Sami (Aug 11, 2017)

kmaster said:


> If you want divisi strings, though... there is only one right answer.


That is a very valid insight, but neither Spitfire nor CineSamples offer div. I'd have to go EWQL or LASS or VSL, which are either too dry, too hard to configure or too bulky, don't forget I am looking for something that is good out of the box. I'd rather buy a chamber string library down the road if I run into unsurmountable difficulties. 
Or do you have any other insights? 
Cheers!


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## Sami (Aug 12, 2017)

Tekkera said:


> css, or spitfire chamber(or symphonic) strings which sound great out of the box. also spitfire products are getting "performance legato" which is basically all legato styles, and spiccatos without keyswitching, very responsive. css is kind of a pain to program if your daw doesn't support midi offset. cinestrings sounds pretty good as well with a touch of reverb, but straight out the box my ears like css the most, the sound is very lush. again, warning on the css midi programming, it has some pretty crazy delay and attack times to enhance realism


Heard about that being an issue, that and the lack of essential articulations (Sul Pont. (!)) drove me away from CSS, although the sound is admirable. I listened to the Daniel James Demo of CS, and I found the slow section admirable. 
I ended up buying the CineSamples complete package, I like Spitfire a bit more in some things, but the usability and coherence across the products made it a sell for me (besides, 50% EDU vs. 30% EDU discount). I'll probably supplement it with Tundra and -apparently- I'm gonna end up buying the whole Spitfire library at some point anyway (see above).


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## Tatu (Aug 12, 2017)

Starting out? Well check out East West's Hollywood orchestra / Subscribe to their composer cloud for a month and give them a test.


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## Sami (Aug 12, 2017)

Tatu said:


> Starting out? Well check out East West's Hollywood orchestra / Subscribe to their composer cloud for a month and give them a test.


Is EWQL worth it for anything but for Spaces and very specific patches?


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## Ron Kords (Aug 12, 2017)

Hi Sami,

I was probably in a similar situ' to you not so long back. I started with Albion 1 and needed to make the choice as to which way to head as I knew a 'full set' was going to be expensive.

I can't talk for other libraries other than listening to demos but I went with Spitfire and couldn't be happier. The leap up from Albion is pretty big, particularly in the strings - I won't hear word against them. I love the woods, speaking as a wind player, and if your piano playing is strong the lack of runs is no issue.

Brass tuning and dynamics is a bit frustrating here and there but workable.

Overall, the sound is second to none (for me) but only if your looking at 'traditional' classical. I'm actually now on the hunt for something more hyped for trailer type music, probably Ark 1.

The samples are wet, something I like as I'm no expert on faking the room with reverbs and it doesn't anywhere near as good to my ears. Air sounds incredible, and in some regard this is what your paying for. You will still need to add reverb on everything to 'pull it together' though.

I like Spitfire as a company, they seem to be driving things forward and I'm sure their will be more to come from them - Eric Whitacre choir, in Air, should be stunning.

End of the day you won't be disappointed whichever route you take as the quality and usability with most companies nowadays is awesome but as people mention and as I've found, enough is never enough with sample libraries 

P.s. If you can wait you'll get big discounts at Christmas, at least for Spitfire. Look out for promos with all companies, it seems buying at 'normal' prices should be the exception rather than rule.


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## Tatu (Aug 12, 2017)

Definitely, especially when you can give them a good try with roughly 30USD/month.
http://www.soundsonline.com/composercloud


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## vicontrolu (Aug 12, 2017)

Cinebrass is better for ff, generally speaking. If you plan to use p parts go Spitfire


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## DervishCapkiner (Aug 12, 2017)

Hi Sami, I was in a similar situation as you and really wanted to invest in one library ( at least first of all ) and ended up going to cinesamples because it was apparently easy to use. A year and a half later on on my journey of becoming a composer and just today I have purchased their solo strings, brass and winds pro as well as voxos, piano in blue and tina guo ( the cheaper one) all with my education discount as I teach in schools. I know some of these are older libraries but I have my reasons and it's mainly for speed, continuity and because I want to get to know one library at a time.

I must say that after having used them for a while now and constantly listening to other libraries to invest in this year I have realised they do have a sort of 'hollywood' sound. They seem quite clear and detailed perhaps at the very slight loss of something (I'm not quite sure what) that perhaps you would find with spitfire - actually I think I know what it is , it's the sound of AIR studios.... 

I myself chose to invest in cinesamples again as I have decided that I would like to specialise in writing music for advertising which does include some orchestral writing however I am at this moment putting together a template to do a midi mockup of Holst's - Uranus so I could get back to you again about what I thought of it's realism against the recording afterwards?

If however I may give you my real opinion about your situation if you don't mind....

If you are new to writing with samples in a DAW....you're just not going to know what you prefer yet until you've worked with something, a lot (most days), for at least a few months..End of. I know you don't want to hear that mate but it's true. I wondered how all these guys on here were saying 'oh this string library and this brass patch and these oboes are the the best chamber combo out there' or ' this clarinet library has too much noise' or ' their guitars lack a strumming realism that such and such library has' until I had spent a good while working with libraries to get to know their particular sound. If you're starting out on a DAW with composing after having been a pen-n-paper composer working with real instrumentalists, in my opinion you need a year just to get used to the whole format and sound of it all. Everything will sound amazing at first and once you start learning how to use cc 2, 11, 7 and the modwheel your mockups will get more and more realistic sounding every time. Whether you use spitfire or cinesamples won't make a blind bit of difference to you for at least a year mate and by then I guarantee you'll be looking for more libraries to invest in. CSS, LASS and PISS!

In saying this, despite the price difference it sounds like the right choice for you would be spitfire though...definitely...haha!


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## Sami (Aug 12, 2017)

DervishCapkiner said:


> Hi Sami, I was in a similar situation as you and really wanted to invest in one library ( at least first of all ) and ended up going to cinesamples because it was apparently easy to use. A year and a half later on on my journey of becoming a composer and just today I have purchased their solo strings, brass and winds pro as well as voxos, piano in blue and tina guo ( the cheaper one) all with my education discount as I teach in schools. I know some of these are older libraries but I have my reasons and it's mainly for speed, continuity and because I want to get to know one library at a time.
> 
> I must say that after having used them for a while now and constantly listening to other libraries to invest in this year I have realised they do have a sort of 'hollywood' sound. They seem quite clear and detailed perhaps at the very slight loss of something (I'm not quite sure what) that perhaps you would find with spitfire - actually I think I know what it is , it's the sound of AIR studios....
> 
> ...


What a great reply! Thank you very much


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Aug 12, 2017)

Tekkera said:


> you could always just get ewql composer cloud for $30 a month
> play engine sucks
> _
> WARNING: THIS POST CONTAINS MANY OPINIONS._
> ...


With regards to the noise on the Woodwinds are you still talking after the 1.3 update they released which got de-noised a whole bunch more? As it says they removed a huge amount of noise with that.

Personally, would be waiting for Berlin Woodwinds as well...but the price :/


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## Sami (Aug 12, 2017)

Essentially for me right now I'm looking for the perfect balance in playability, sound and price. I went with CineSamples because I believe that with the EDU discount this is what I'm getting, especially with CS Pro and CineHarps coming soon. I would have definitely bought Spitfire, but the price for everything I need (Full Symphony Orchestra with Harps, Percussion, Solo Strings and Runs/ Effects) is not justifiable for me at the moment. That said, it's probably the next thing I'm buying once I get acquainted with composing with VIs.
Any tips for a beginner on processing CineSamples?


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## robgb (Aug 12, 2017)

There is no one specific library for creating the "film cue" feeling. Working with samples is like learning to play an instrument. It takes time and practice to get the sound you want, and if you practice enough, you can get that sound with any sample library. For as good as they sound, neither the Cinesamples or Spitfire libraries are going to instantly make your work sound fantastic. My suggestion is that you mix and match, buy more than one library for each orchestral section, and learn to layer and tweak and work with them as if you're learning to play the violin. I have been working with samples for quite some time now and am still well off the mark.


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## erica-grace (Aug 12, 2017)

Sami said:


> Is EWQL worth it for anything but for Spaces and very specific patches?



Spaces is not part of EWQL. EWQL is not the same as Hollywood Orchestra - different product.


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## erica-grace (Aug 12, 2017)

vicontrolu said:


> Cinebrass is better for ff, generally speaking. If you plan to use p parts go Spitfire



If you plan on writing for orchestra, you will use plenty of both


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## erica-grace (Aug 12, 2017)

Sami said:


> Essentially for me right now I'm looking for the perfect balance in playability, sound and price



Cinesamples and SFA are different. But what it is going to come down to, is not the libraries, but your ability to orchestrate and write. There is no one correct answer here.


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## erica-grace (Aug 12, 2017)

Tekkera said:


> Cinebrass is the most popular library pretty much ever.



Really? What are you basing that off of?


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## JonSolo (Aug 12, 2017)

If I may chime in...

The suggestion of Composer Cloud from EWQL is one of the best suggestions thus far. But let's get a straight record-

You already own Albion One and Berlin Inspire. These ARE your out of the box starting points. Everything from there is going to require a bit more effort. And there are some wonderful tools available in Cinesamples and Spitfire. But for your next step, I really believe you should put your feelers out there a bit more and consider Composer Cloud.

Several reasons: it opens up a huge box of opportunities at a price point unmatched by most any other company. These are the guys that really set the standard, and that bar is really not much higher today. They really got it right.

Some will chime in about VSL, and no doubt there are some fine tools there, but I think they require even more work than EWQL. Trust everyone here who says you can't go wrong with a one month $30 investment to try it out. To make matters really good, EWQL has fantastic sales throughout the year where you can get the products your really will use at a price point hard to beat.


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## mikeh-375 (Aug 12, 2017)

Hi Sami,

I too am classically trained and worked with live players for many years. I am now writing for myself and use Vsl, spitfire, hein, berlin, etc. If you want to hear them in action, go to my website to the scores page and listen to the Adagio for strings, or the theme and variations. These 2 are spitfire and vsl in various combinations. Sorry, it seems like a shameless plug, but I think you may find it helpful. I am not the greatest mixer in the world, but there is a good sense of realism in the programming and it should give you an idea of what is possible.


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## erica-grace (Aug 12, 2017)

Tekkera said:


> statistically. when i've heard or watched mockups/whatever, cinebrass generally has always popped up until as of recent when there's more options. you're probably the first person i've seen to question it's popularity



Where did you see me question its popularity? I have done no such thing.

Seeing cinebrass in a lot of mockups does not mean it is "the most popular library pretty much ever."


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## Tatu (Aug 12, 2017)

Sami said:


> Any tips for a beginner on processing CineSamples?


Well, you will propably get a bit frustrated for the lack of softer dynamics on the trombones. Fear not! Try this: go to the settings tab within kontakt UI and activate LO PASS filter and assign a CC# of your choice to it. Now you can cut some of the brassines out when doing softer stuff.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Aug 12, 2017)

Tatu said:


> Well, you will propably get a bit frustrated for the lack of softer dynamics on the trombones. Fear not! Try this: go to the settings tab within kontakt UI and activate LO PASS filter and assign a CC# of your choice to it. Now you can cut some of the brassines out when doing softer stuff.


Certainly something I will be trying thanks


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## Paul T McGraw (Aug 12, 2017)

I am a hobbyist, not a pro. But I own most of the Cinesamples products, all of the VSL products, Chris Hein Brass, Spitfire Symphonic Strings and OT Berlin Brass. Of course each product has strengths and weaknesses, but one thing I think a buyer can truly depend upon. The demo tracks represent the absolute best that can be achieved with that library. So listen closely to the demo tracks. Some developers offer more to listen to than others, but listen to as many as you can find. No one, especially not a hobbyist like myself or someone just starting out, is going to be able to surpass the demo tracks with that library unless they are truly exceptional, in which case they can probably sound great with anything. So if you do not like the sound of the demo tracks, or the kind of music you want to write is not included, that library is probably not the one for you. Also, usually demo tracks are carefully chosen to emphasize the strength of the library and avoid it's weaknesses. VSL posts a lot of mock-ups of classical music because that is it's strength. The same applies to every library.

Anyway, listen to the demos and see if that library features demos of the kind of music you want to write. If not, perhaps another library might be a better first choice. For example, you will not hear any "epic" demos featured on the VSL site. You could maybe use some VSL instruments in an epic track, but there are other libraries that would be easier to use for epic.

I own no EastWest products other than QL Spaces, but if I was just starting over, I would go for the $30 per month composer cloud. They have many, many different libraries, and after a few months you will get a feel for what you want to accomplish that cannot be done with the Cloud. You will then be a better shopper.


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## Magunga (Aug 12, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> If I may chime in...
> 
> The suggestion of Composer Cloud from EWQL is one of the best suggestions thus far. But let's get a straight record-
> 
> ...



I know OP said hardware requirements aren't an issue, but it's a big issue for me and, I assume, most people just starting out/expanding beyond stock libraries. Would you still recommend composer cloud to someone (me) that doesn't have the beefiest computing power?


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Aug 12, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> I am a hobbyist, not a pro. But I own most of the Cinesamples products, all of the VSL products, Chris Hein Brass, Spitfire Symphonic Strings and OT Berlin Brass. Of course each product has strengths and weaknesses, but one thing I think a buyer can truly depend upon. The demo tracks represent the absolute best that can be achieved with that library. So listen closely to the demo tracks. Some developers offer more to listen to than others, but listen to as many as you can find. No one, especially not a hobbyist like myself or someone just starting out, is going to be able to surpass the demo tracks with that library unless they are truly exceptional, in which case they can probably sound great with anything. So if you do not like the sound of the demo tracks, or the kind of music you want to write is not included, that library is probably not the one for you. Also, usually demo tracks are carefully chosen to emphasize the strength of the library and avoid it's weaknesses. VSL posts a lot of mock-ups of classical music because that is it's strength. The same applies to every library.
> 
> Anyway, listen to the demos and see if that library features demos of the kind of music you want to write. If not, perhaps another library might be a better first choice. For example, you will not hear any "epic" demos featured on the VSL site. You could maybe use some VSL instruments in an epic track, but there are other libraries that would be easier to use for epic.
> 
> I own no EastWest products other than QL Spaces, but if I was just starting over, I would go for the $30 per month composer cloud. They have many, many different libraries, and after a few months you will get a feel for what you want to accomplish that cannot be done with the Cloud. You will then be a better shopper.


Good concise and detailed analysis Paul


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## Lawson. (Aug 12, 2017)

Is there a reason you aren't considering Orchestral Tools' Berlin Orchestra? IMO, they're the best, most consistent and cohesive set of orchestral samples on the market right now (aside from VSL).

[Note: I have received free products from OT]


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## DervishCapkiner (Aug 12, 2017)

mikeh-375 said:


> Hi Sami,
> 
> I too am classically trained and worked with live players for many years. I am now writing for myself and use Vsl, spitfire, hein, berlin, etc. If you want to hear them in action, go to my website to the scores page and listen to the Adagio for strings, or the theme and variations. These 2 are spitfire and vsl in various combinations. Sorry, it seems like a shameless plug, but I think you may find it helpful. I am not the greatest mixer in the world, but there is a good sense of realism in the programming and it should give you an idea of what is possible.




Checked your page out Mike - brilliant stuff you've written there


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## JohnG (Aug 12, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> one thing I think a buyer can truly depend upon. *The demo tracks represent the absolute best that can be achieved with that library*. So listen closely to the demo tracks. Some developers offer more to listen to than others, but listen to as many as you can find.



This is excellent advice, Paul. If you find the demos ho-hum, don't buy. And listen veeeerrrry carefully, on good speakers.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Aug 12, 2017)

Lawson. said:


> Is there a reason you aren't considering Orchestral Tools' Berlin Orchestra? IMO, they're the best, most consistent and cohesive set of orchestral samples on the market right now (aside from VSL).
> 
> [Note: I have received free products from OT]


From the recent times of being on here though, I have come across many posts about the inefficiency on RAM when it comes to OT and needing lots of it. The OP, I don't think intends to run a Server spec machine for his projects right now.


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## Lawson. (Aug 12, 2017)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> From the recent times of being on here though, I have come across many posts about the inefficiency on RAM when it comes to OT and needing lots of it. The OP, I don't think intends to run a Server spec machine for his projects right now.



Currently my full Berlin Orchestra (purged) uses about ~60GB RAM. That is with every single articulation loaded, though.

As for the OP, he said "Hardware requirements are not an issue, sufficient PCIe storage and RAM is available and slaves can be procured if need be."


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Aug 12, 2017)

Lawson. said:


> Currently my full Berlin Orchestra (purged) uses about ~60GB RAM. That is with every single articulation loaded, though.
> 
> As for the OP, he said "Hardware requirements are not an issue, sufficient PCIe storage and RAM is available and slaves can be procured if need be."


Fair enough I stand corrected.

Price point for OT is also over $2K though... :/


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## Tekkera (Aug 12, 2017)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Fair enough I stand corrected.
> 
> Price point for OT is also over $2K though... :/


just the strings and the expansions are probably worth that much ;w;


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## Daniel James (Aug 12, 2017)

In my practical experience.

I use Cinesamples stuff when I am going big and loud.

I use Spitfire stuff when I am writing 'score' or softer stuff.

I use both Cineperc and HZ Perc in pretty much everything regardless of size.

If you have the opportunity, get all you can from both!

-DJ


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## Sami (Aug 12, 2017)

Lawson. said:


> Is there a reason you aren't considering Orchestral Tools' Berlin Orchestra? IMO, they're the best, most consistent and cohesive set of orchestral samples on the market right now (aside from VSL).
> 
> [Note: I have received free products from OT]


Berlin Stuff is outside my budget, as much as I love it. Wish I had received "free products" from them too... :((


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## Sami (Aug 12, 2017)

Daniel James said:


> In my practical experience.
> 
> I use Cinesamples stuff when I am going big and loud.
> 
> ...


The venerable Daniel James himself! It is a pleasure to see you here, Sir! 
Your demo of the CineSamples stuff was what essentially pushed me to start out with CineSamples (in particular, that Mahleresque theme in the strings demo at the start and those skull-shattering deep-brass and metal percussion rips in the brass demo).
On a different subject, I'm finding CS a bit easier to control than Spitfire and ease of use is of great concern for me. Optimally I'd be using something like Sibelius for writing but with the midi editing capabilities of a DAW, I'm simply not used to this workflow yet (or maybe Logic isn't the best tool) so CS definitely has a benefit there.


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## mikeh-375 (Aug 13, 2017)

_Checked your page out Mike - brilliant stuff you've written there..._

Thanks so much Dervish, very pleased that you liked some of it.


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## zeng (Aug 13, 2017)

Maestro1972 said:


> Most composers I know use different libraries, capitalizing on their strengths. For instance, I know a lot of composers that use Spitfire strings, CineSamples Brass, and Berlin Woodwinds. I know it's not a "this is the best" answer but I hope it helps.


+1 I like to use more than 1 orchestral VST; for ex I usually write sustain with SF (chamber+london), legatos with 8dio Agitato, other articulations with Orchestral Tools etc...making a good mix and applying a common reverb makes it unique and live (same for woodwinds and brass).


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## Sequentialist (Aug 13, 2017)

Sami said:


> The venerable Daniel James himself! It is a pleasure to see you here, Sir!
> Your demo of the CineSamples stuff was what essentially pushed me to start out with CineSamples (in particular, that Mahleresque theme in the strings demo at the start and those skull-shattering deep-brass and metal percussion rips in the brass demo).
> On a different subject, I'm finding CS a bit easier to control than Spitfire and ease of use is of great concern for me. Optimally I'd be using something like Sibelius for writing but with the midi editing capabilities of a DAW, I'm simply not used to this workflow yet (or maybe Logic isn't the best tool) so CS definitely has a benefit there.


Hi Sami,

I'd love to hear a bit more about why you're finding CS easier to control. I'm making the CineSamples / Spitfire choice at the moment, without access to directly try either. They both sound wonderful - Spitfire a little more lush and Cine a little more gritty (which I like!), in terms of bows on strings etc. 
But playability for me is really important. I want to be able to easily switch from long articulations to short, ideally using the pedal. I've heard that CS supports this but Spitfire doesn't. I also tend to initially write my string parts all at once - I mock up all the sections by playing it all at the same time, and then edit and split them out to separate tracks as need be. Does CS or Spitfire lead the way in terms of patches that support playing all sections, such as all strings, at the same time in the idea creation phase?
Any feedback you have based on your own experience of both libraries would be fantastic!
Thanks,
Mike


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## Tekkera (Aug 13, 2017)

yeloop said:


> Hi Sami,
> 
> But playability for me is really important. I want to be able to easily switch from long articulations to short, ideally using the pedal. I've heard that CS supports this but Spitfire doesn't. I also tend to initially write my string parts all at once - I mock up all the sections by playing it all at the same time, and then edit and split them out to separate tracks as need be. Does CS or Spitfire lead the way in terms of patches that support playing all sections, such as all strings, at the same time in the idea creation phase?
> Any feedback you have based on your own experience of both libraries would be fantastic!
> ...



For legatos, spitfire specifically has patches for shorts and legato types called "performance legato". It has spiccato when you quickly tap notes. You can also change parameters on when you want articulations to trigger but it's not as obvious you can compared to cinesamples. I recommend you look up the performance legato patches to see how they sound and function.


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## dpasdernick (Aug 13, 2017)

Sami said:


> That is a very valid insight, but neither Spitfire nor CineSamples offer div. I'd have to go EWQL or LASS or VSL, which are either too dry, too hard to configure or too bulky, don't forget I am looking for something that is good out of the box. I'd rather buy a chamber string library down the road if I run into unsurmountable difficulties.
> Or do you have any other insights?
> Cheers!



You really need to look at VSL. Even the intro packages are awesome. Also EW Hollywood. If you're looking at doing more than "big bam boomy" both VSL and EW have a ton of articulations that some other packages lack. 

My humble 2 cents.


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## Eduardo Macedo (Aug 13, 2017)

yeloop said:


> Hi Sami,
> 
> I want to be able to easily switch from long articulations to short, ideally using the pedal. I've heard that CS supports this but Spitfire doesn't. I also tend to initially write my string parts all at once - I mock up all the sections by playing it all at the same time, and then edit and split them out to separate tracks as need be. Does CS or Spitfire lead the way in terms of patches that support playing all sections, such as all strings, at the same time in the idea creation phase?
> Mike



You can switch articulations using a pedal.



SSS and SCS do have ensemble patches.


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## Sequentialist (Aug 14, 2017)

Eduardo Macedo said:


> You can switch articulations using a pedal.
> 
> 
> 
> SSS and SCS do have ensemble patches.



Hi Eduardo

I've just watched the first video - that's amazing. It lets you latch using the sustain pedal and choose any articulation to pair with sustain - exactly what I was hoping for.

So the million dollar question... this video is for the Albion libraries. Do the Spitfire Symphonic Strings and Spitfire Chamber Strings have exactly this same feature?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can confirm!

Cheers,
Mike


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## Tekkera (Aug 14, 2017)

yeloop said:


> Hi Eduardo
> 
> I've just watched the first video - that's amazing. It lets you latch using the sustain pedal and choose any articulation to pair with sustain - exactly what I was hoping for.
> 
> ...








Yes


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## Sami (Aug 15, 2017)

dpasdernick said:


> You really need to look at VSL. Even the intro packages are awesome. Also EW Hollywood. If you're looking at doing more than "big bam boomy" both VSL and EW have a ton of articulations that some other packages lack.
> 
> My humble 2 cents.


I'm totally happy to spend money on good libraries, that is not the primary concern. My fear is that I don't have the technical chops to make them sound good (futz/ massage etc.) and that -in the end- my creativity is going to be hampered by the very technology that's supposed to boost it.
I've considered actually notating the parts in Sibelius and importing the midi into Logic for automation and humanization, but it's still a laborious process.
I'm just afraid libraries like Vienna or EW are going to be "too much" for me to handle all the parameters at once, both the playing aspect and the technical aspect.

Having tried out CineSamples for a few days now here are my findings:
The UI is unified across the samples, which makes them easier to control
The samples are for the most part very realistic sounding out of the box, safe some attack/release issues. I did notice a lot of difference between legato patches and non-legato patches for the same instrument, so those cannot be easily mixed (in a multi-timbral track).
Compared to Spitfire demos, I'm getting that intense, sometimes metallic, always energetic vibe. Maybe like a snowstorm in Minnesota or a sunset in Arizona.
Spitfire gives me the sound of a train ride through the Cotswalds, a dreary seaboard town in Southeast England or maybe a drive with my vintage British motorcycle.
If I'd have to make a choice all over again, I'd have probably gone for the Spitfire Samples first, just cause I'm British and I'm "that kind of guy" who totally digs Walton and that image that the sound conjures. But the next library I'd buy would be CineSamples, just cause my music sounds like Gustav Mahler most of the time and the emotional tension in the strings of CineStrings in the low dynamics is monumental for some of those passages (think Mahler 9th Symphony, first movement, basically every passage). 
Nuisances with CineStrings: No divisi and no sordinos, that kills me. Probably gotta run out and buy either Spitfire now or CS2. 
I wish I'd never found out about this sample business and stuck with Sibelius and NotePerformer, the amount of money I'm throwing into samples is getting out of hand......


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## C.R. Rivera (Aug 15, 2017)

Tekkera said:


> Yes


Pardon my glaring ignorance, but I cannot seem to bring up this menu. Which icon brings this up and not the bubble?
Cheers

Carlos


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## sostenuto (Aug 15, 2017)

Sami said:


> I'm totally happy to spend money on good libraries, that is not the primary concern. My fear is that I don't have the technical chops to make them sound good (futz/ massage etc.) and that -in the end- my creativity is going to be hampered by the very technology that's supposed to boost it.
> I've considered actually notating the parts in Sibelius and importing the midi into Logic for automation and humanization, but it's still a laborious process.
> I'm just afraid libraries like Vienna or EW are going to be "too much" for me to handle all the parameters at once, both the playing aspect and the technical aspect.
> 
> ...



Divisi / Sordinos ..... and NOT LASS Full 2.5 +LASS LS 2.5 ?? Just askin'


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## VinRice (Aug 15, 2017)

Sami said:


> I wish I'd never found out about this sample business and stuck with Sibelius and NotePerformer, the amount of money I'm throwing into samples is getting out of hand......



Oh you have no idea...


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## Ultraxenon (Aug 15, 2017)

I have noticed that some said Cinewinds had a lot of noise, i really dont think so. After their latest patch the noise isn't a problem at all.


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## Ultraxenon (Aug 15, 2017)

Sami said:


> Essentially for me right now I'm looking for the perfect balance in playability, sound and price. I went with CineSamples because I believe that with the EDU discount this is what I'm getting, especially with CS Pro and CineHarps coming soon. I would have definitely bought Spitfire, but the price for everything I need (Full Symphony Orchestra with Harps, Percussion, Solo Strings and Runs/ Effects) is not justifiable for me at the moment. That said, it's probably the next thing I'm buying once I get acquainted with composing with VIs.
> Any tips for a beginner on processing CineSamples?


There is a great video from Cinesamples that is called treating Cinestrings. That was very useful when i tried to get the best out of them. It explains a little about eq and compression and a lot about how to use reverb on Cinestrings. Worth checking out.


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## MatFluor (Aug 15, 2017)

Just on a small note - I am using Spitfire almost exclusively now.

About your fear of "not being good enough to use it" - my main point for purchasing the Spitfire Symphony Orchestra was:
"I want to stop worrying about the quality of the samples - no more hearing that it sounds good but you need better Brass etc. I want to concentrate on writing and brining my chops up with quality instruments where I cannot just shove the 'It sounds bad because bad libraries' card into the critique".

That's it. OT was way out of budget for full orchestra, so I went Spitfire - also Spitfire matches "the sound in my head" more closely. You can make bad samples sound good with your composition/orchestration and production chops. I went for quality in that department to ease the production need - I'm having a higher start point. I need production chops etc. nonetheless, but my sketches can be critiques by friends and composer-collegues on a good level, where we all know "it's not the samples that sound off, it's your composition/orchestration/production skill!"


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## mc_deli (Aug 15, 2017)

Sami said:


> -in the end- my creativity is going to be hampered by the very technology that's supposed to boost it.


Welcome aboard!


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## Tekkera (Aug 27, 2017)

C.R. Rivera said:


> Pardon my glaring ignorance, but I cannot seem to bring up this menu. Which icon brings this up and not the bubble?
> Cheers
> 
> Carlos


super late reply, sorry, you've probably figured it out by now but you hold control and click an articulation


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## C.R. Rivera (Aug 27, 2017)

Tekkera said:


> super late reply, sorry, you've probably figured it out by now but you hold control and click an articulation


No, problem, I figured it out after I realized it was a MAC being used and I have a PC. Forehead slapping moment for me. 

Cheers and thanks

Carlos


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