# F-it.......... a few more.



## kid-surf (Aug 5, 2006)

Thought I'd throw out some "specific" cues to see how 'composers' respond to them.... thought, _"hmmmm, that might be interesting"_. Since not many composers have heard my stuff. (sue me, I lied about not posting any more. But, promise, this is the last shit! Let's just get it over with. :D )


***As always, be as brutally honest as you wish. You ain't gonna hurt my feelings. I'm not a cry baby. :mrgreen:

Cheers....


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## xylophonetic (Aug 5, 2006)

Can't say much, except that it's always a pleasure to see the "main composers" at VI create such quality stuff!


greets,

Thomas


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## choc0thrax (Aug 5, 2006)

There's some good stuff in there. Meat Hooks kinda reminded me of Saw and Waltz of the Dead is definitely Donnie Darko.


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## kid-surf (Aug 5, 2006)

Thanks guys! 


Thomas -- thanks for the nice words and for taking the time to spin it.

Choc0 -- You spotted my temp as Donnie Darko.  Gold star for you. :D Hard to get that "vibe" without getting somewhat close, had to be a waltz and dark and magical, and close.  I'm trying to get a meeting with Richard Kelly actually (since my wife knows him) but I'd definitely NOT present that cue. Been there done that. (him) 


Good eye on the Saw too that was also the temp. But I think mine is a little more tribal (did I spell that right?). Where Charlie's is more industrial, IMO. Tried to be original with it in spite of that.

The other stuff was original though..... yet I tried to put myself in the shit that was temped.

Thanks for the spin guys....


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## Mike Greene (Aug 5, 2006)

Not bad for four weeks! :mrgreen: 

I like these a lot. I wrote a cue a few months ago similar to your Saw cue. Yours is better. How humiliating!

These are all solid IMHO. Maybe the bells (glòs8   AzÔs8   AzÕs8   AzÖs8   Az×s8   AzØs8   AzÙs8   AzÚs8   AzÛs8   AzÜs8   AzÝs8   AzÞs8   Azßs8   Azàs8   Azás8   Azâs8   Azãs8   Azäs8   Azås8   Azæs8   Azçs8   Azès8   Azés8   Azês8   Azës8   Azìs8   Azís8   Azîs8   Azïs8   Azðs8   Azñs8   Azòs8   Azós8   Azôs8


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## Stephen Rees (Aug 6, 2006)

Hi Kid,

I enjoyed all of these, both the compositions and the production. No-one has mentioned 'Momentum' and 'Bling' yet specifically, but I thought they were both terrific cues. The bluesy trumpet in 'Momentum' was spot on, reminded me a bit of 'Chinatown' by Goldsmith somehow although it isn't really the same.

Loved 'Bling'. Great seamless combination of electronic and acoustic sounds and it sounded just terrific. There was a load of rhythmic detail in the various parts that creates a great piece.

Care to share what you are using? Not the orchestral stuff (which I think is mainly VSL), but the synths, effects and so forth.

Looking forward to your next 'this is the last time I'm posting any music' music post 

Stephen


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## kid-surf (Aug 6, 2006)

Mike -- Well, it's been four weeks of no sleep. And much study. See, I took one of those Sally Struthers infomercial courses. It was down to either "film composer" , "airplane technician", or "crime scene investigator". A quick scan of the room revealed no body or airplane parts, so film composer it was. 4 weeks later here I am with my certified certificate signed by Sally herself. :mrgreen: Well, it's a stamp, but still.... :razz:

*"I like these a lot. I wrote a cue a few months ago similar to your Saw cue. Yours is better. How humiliating!"*

Thanks man! I have a solution for us. I'll trade you this cue for your Sleeper Cell cue.... along with any residuals. :mrgreen:

But seriously, I'd be interested in checking out your cue if you feel like posting it.

Oh... the bells (yeah it's all bells to me too  ). I can see why you feel that way, but I like it at that level. :D


Thanks for the spin.....


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## kid-surf (Aug 6, 2006)

Christian --- thanks man.

Ok, so I do have something that sounds like Powell. :D That was the goal of my other cue, but I'll take it on this one.  Thanks for the spin.


Stephen --

Thanks for the kind words. I've been meaning to get the 'Chinatown' soundtrack. Haven't heard the music away from the film, but I know that it's often a fave of the Goldsmith fans. So I take that as a HUGE compliment (while realizing I'm a million miles away from Goldsmith).

*"Care to share what you are using? Not the orchestral stuff (which I think is mainly VSL), but the synths, effects and so forth."*

Well, I should say that I almost always use a combination of VSL, SISS, QLSO and some solo stuff. (for the record) 

The other stuff I use is anything and everything.

"Digital Performer
Giga Studio
Kontakt
Mach-5
Vienna Symphonic Library
Vienna Chamber Strings
EW/QL Symphonic Orchestra
Sonic Implants Strings Collection
Epic Horns
True Strike
Absynth
Reaktor
V-Station
Battery
FM-7
EVp-73
B4
Colossus
RA
Ethno World III
Percussive Adventures II
Hardcore Bass
Boesendorfer 290
Storm Drum
Operating Table
Atmosphere
Trilogy
Stylus RMX
Disco Discovery
Drums From Hell Superior
X-Treme FX
Altiverb
Reason
pHatmatic Pro

(many other sample libraries - too many to list)"



That's how I list it on my website. And I'm probably forgetting a lot. There's also the free/cheap synths that I like too. The stuff on PC only that I run in V-stack. 

A lot of the stuff in Meat Hooks was sound design. Sounds I recorded because there isn't a current lib that sounds gritty/dirty enough in my opinion for the type of horror I like to write. So I made my own horror lib, something that fit what "I" view as scary. 

Aside from that I use a lot of effects to trip out or emphasize sounds. 


thanks for the spin...


Oh.. and nope, no more music, promise! (or maybe I'll post my "EPIC" piece when i finish it, :mrgreen: . It's just that I don't have any HUGE EPIC pieces. I'm gonna do one after these next few gigs )


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## Lex (Aug 6, 2006)

I liked the Heist a lot...specialy when the Powellish strings come in at the middle...great part..

Also liked Meat Hooks, real nice mix...or at least I like it untill that horrible horrible brass line comes in towards the end...

rest, I find ok...bit "TV-ish" tough...


Alex


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## Stephen Rees (Aug 6, 2006)

Thanks for the list! Are you using Reaktor much? I've been so close to buying that so many times, but I aways shy away from it assuming I'll spend months with it trying to figure out how it works.


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## kid-surf (Aug 6, 2006)

Lex ---

Thanks for the honest opinion, and the spin. Glad you liked the string section in Heist. I like it too. 

I don't recall the "horrible horrible" brass line in Meat Hooks. If you're meaning the very end, I like that line, I wanted it to feel disjointed and clunky. I didn't want much of any melody in that piece at any point.

TV-ish --- I'd say I'm not the type of composer who is traditional, or wants to be. Although I have some more "traditional" film cues, but that's not what I wanted to post. You and I probably don't like the same composers or films in general. And that's ok....... 


Stephen -- I use Reaktor randomly. But I use everything randomly really. I think it's a good app and has lots of uses (Although SUPER power hungry that app). Never a bad option to have it though.


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## kid-surf (Aug 6, 2006)

Lex---

BTW, after reading your other critique you seem pretty insistent that my sound is "TV-ish", and apparently amateur. Perhaps you could post one of your works to show me the "film" sound you allude to.

That way I'll be able to better judge how I regard your views. Not sure I've heard your music.


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## Lex (Aug 6, 2006)

Kid....

Who said my sound is more "film-ish"?...I'm more "trailer-ish" or "game-ish"...lol

Alex


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## kid-surf (Aug 6, 2006)

No one said your sound was more film-ish... I was curious to hear what 'your' version of film-ish is like. That's all... 

I ask these questions when I'm not familiar with the person's work who's giving me advice. Seems valid. So am I to understand that you're a professional trailer/game composer (well known?) but don't score films? I don't get the "lol" part......


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## Lex (Aug 6, 2006)

Then I dont get why ask to hear my work when u talk about "film" sound...

If u want to hear "film" sound I alude to, listen to Bourne Supremacy...

If u just wanna hear some of my stuff, sure I'll put something online for ya..


Alex


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## choc0thrax (Aug 6, 2006)

Cat fight!!!1


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 6, 2006)

Thanks for sharing, Kid!

Momentum: I like the dissonance between the melody and some of the harmony, nice tension. Trumpet and strings are so well balanced, lovely. There's a nice play between gentleness and intensity in this piece, but also a kind of interrupted tension. Actually feels like the opposite of momentum, as gestures grow, only to fall. Great end.

Heist: I really like the vibe, LOVE when the strings kick in, really soars beautifully. The ending is a bit of a disappointment. I would have liked, for eg, the tuned wood blocks to die out when the strings kick. I just feel that we've heard the rhythm clearly throughout the first half, and I'd rather stay with the fresh, wider vista then get back to the beat.

Waltz: The extra reverb really sets the tone, kind of like looking through a really old photo album. I enjoyed the melody, but didn't quite go for the choir (I'm not a big fan in general though). The modulation really works well, kept my interest, but the ending is too abrupt for my taste (though I'm sure it works as a cue).

Bling: Super atmosphere, man! Love the synth pads, the rhythmic motif. And the beat kills! The bass could be even fatter, more in your face, but I'm a bass player, so... Great changes when the strings get bigger, excellent mysterious transition in the middle, lots of cool stereo movement. This is by far my favourite piece. Oh, and it's very film-ic, btw! :wink: This ending works for me.

Meat Hooks: Opening works with the title. Not so sure about the f*cked-up very dry stuff that comes in at about 20% as I feel it takes us away from the ambience that you set up earlier, which had reverb, brought us to a larger space. Still, again I'm sure it could really work with scary editing, shaky close-up stuff. Love the abrupt edit at about 80%, before the 'bones. The next part is just perfect. Again the ending here works really well, makes me want to hear the cue again!

More, please.


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## Scott Cairns (Aug 6, 2006)

Hey Kid, great stuff dude!

I actually agree with Mike that the bell sound is alittle loud in Waltz. Its more because it so dry and the piano, choirs, etc are further back.

Love the Heist toon. You did a great job on the strings as others have mentioned. Just out of interest, what is the very first sound you hear in Heist (its a bit like a filtered guitar)
It sounds like the opening notes of The Dam at Otter Creek on Live's Throwing Copper album. Not saying you ripped them at all, just wondering if its a patch in a sample lib or something...

BTW, this is just my personal observation, but I think you've demonstrated orchestral chops, the strings in Heist show nice counterpoint IMO.

I realised recently, that you CAN be a good orchestral writer without going down the entire JW route. There's plenty of scope for hybrid type cues, think - Don Davis Matrix, John Powell etc.

I find writing for orchestral instruments over a loop etc, to be fairly easy. it gets harder when your orchestra has to function as a complete instrument and supply solid rhythm in addition to weaving melody and harmony. 

Anyway, I reckon your orchestral chops are fine and will continue to improve over time. I only say that since you recently mentioned something about not being an orchestral writer, or something along those lines...


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## kid-surf (Aug 6, 2006)

I don't see a cat fight. I see one guy getting more information from another guy so he knows what to make of the other guys comments. Seems logical. For all i know he writes rap music. In that case I wouldn't care what the guy thought...

*"Then I dont get why ask to hear my work when u talk about "film" sound..."*

I already explained why. 

*If u want to hear "film" sound I alude to, listen to Bourne Supremacy... "*

I have it. Sure, that's 'one' way to score a film... but it's not the 'only' way. Nor is it the only film ever made.

I think we disagree on what film music is (or can be). No big deal... you're doing your version, and I'll continue to do mine.

But thanks for weighing in and being honest.... As I was honest back to you.

----------------
*General commentary:*

Yep, I'll continue writing my way, and have every intention of climbing the ladder. Like I've always said, some composers will think I suck. It's really no surprise to me. Maybe I wouldn't like their music if I heard it..... doesn't mean much at a career level. It's one guys opinion either way.

If you believe in yourself, then you believe in yourself.


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## kid-surf (Aug 6, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Sun Aug 06 said:


> Cat fight!!!1




Choc0 -- I sent you an autographed head shot of myself. With my lip prints.... *smooch* :twisted:


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## kid-surf (Aug 6, 2006)

*Ned --* thanks for the breakdown. Gives me a very clear view into hearing it through your ears. 

*"The ending is a bit of a disappointment. I would have liked, for eg, the tuned wood blocks to die out when the strings kick. I just feel that we've heard the rhythm clearly throughout the first half, and I'd rather stay with the fresh, wider vista then get back to the beat."*

Could be... I'll contemplate that......

* "I enjoyed the melody, but didn't quite go for the choir (I'm not a big fan in general though)." *

The punch line is that.... I can't stand choir.  Normally I wouldn't find myself writing this type of cue, but the temp dictated that I use choir. Generally I hate choir but feel I used it the best I could in that piece. Most cues I can't stand hearing it though.... So we aren't so different. 

*"Bling: Super atmosphere, man! Love the synth pads, the rhythmic motif. And the beat kills! The bass could be even fatter, more in your face, but I'm a bass player, so... Great changes when the strings get bigger, excellent mysterious transition in the middle, lots of cool stereo movement. This is by far my favourite piece. Oh, and it's very film-ic, btw! This ending works for me."*

Thanks. I like that piece too. Glad you feel it's film-ic. I think so too. 

*"Meat Hooks: Opening works with the title. Not so sure about the f*cked-up very dry stuff that comes in at about 20% as I feel it takes us away from the ambience that you set up earlier, which had reverb, brought us to a larger space. Still, again I'm sure it could really work with scary editing, shaky close-up stuff. Love the abrupt edit at about 80%, before the 'bones. The next part is just perfect. Again the ending here works really well, makes me want to hear the cue again!" *

Cool. Well, i like hard contrasts, like super dry set against deep spatial elements, hard cuts and the like. That's just what I like, what I think sounds cool. Could be from my rock background.

Glad you liked most of it... that's about the most I could hope for.

Thanks for the spin and in depth review!


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## Lex (Aug 6, 2006)

Kid..

Of course...all of this is just my personal opinion...weather u'll care for it is your choice..

As for Supremacy is just one way to do it..I couldnt agree more..but u see in my ears some of these cues r very close to that style, but they r just not as good as Powells...I dont hear them as "another way of doing this but equaly good"...

They r too close to the feel and structure Powell is known, without bringing anything new for that...

Alex


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## kid-surf (Aug 6, 2006)

Scott -- thanks for the spin and the thoughts!

*"I actually agree with Mike that the bell sound is alittle loud in Waltz. Its more because it so dry and the piano, choirs, etc are further back. "*

I hear you, but that's what I like about it. :D

*"Just out of interest, what is the very first sound you hear in Heist (its a bit like a filtered guitar)
It sounds like the opening notes of The Dam at Otter Creek on Live's Throwing Copper album. Not saying you ripped them at all, just wondering if its a patch in a sample lib or something.."*

Idunno? I'll have to listen to it to see, I forget off hand what sound comes first. I'll have to check out that "Live" tune, not sure if I've ever heard it. I know you aren't implying it's a rip (I'll admit any rips  ) But no it wasn't influenced by them in any way. Just a coincidence. (I'll listen and tell you what it is)

*"BTW, this is just my personal observation, but I think you've demonstrated orchestral chops, the strings in Heist show nice counterpoint IMO. "*

Thanks. I just try to do what I think works, what moves "me".... vs writing to try and impress people (directors / composers or anyone else) with any sort of orchestral chops. (just a general statement)

*"I realised recently, that you CAN be a good orchestral writer without going down the entire JW route. There's plenty of scope for hybrid type cues, think - Don Davis Matrix, John Powell etc."*

I agree. I wouldn't say I disqualify orchestral. I just don't believe it's the right fit for every film. Yet right for many. There's plenty of hybrid scores I think are a perfect fit for the films they've been written for, and plain interesting scores.

*"I find writing for orchestral instruments over a loop etc, to be fairly easy. it gets harder when your orchestra has to function as a complete instrument and supply solid rhythm in addition to weaving melody and harmony. *

I agree. To me orchestral writing and hybrid writing are sort of at opposite ends. i wouldn't choose one as being more relevant than the other. Depends on the film, in my view, which will work better.


*"Anyway, I reckon your orchestral chops are fine and will continue to improve over time. I only say that since you recently mentioned something about not being an orchestral writer, or something along those lines..."*


Yeah, my orchestral chops will improve over time, as with anyone else's. I do orchestral cues currently, but it's not the bulk of what I do. I have planned some very orchestral stuff just to show that I can do it (even though most films I go up for aren't big orchestral films -- I almost got a chance to show some stuff on wide release a studio film, but it feel though. Life). With the orchestral stuff I'm doing I'll do at least one intentionally Epic cue... something that moves and has a strong theme. But it's still gonna be my sensibilities and what I like in terms of harmony and counter point and so forth. (and yet nothing is entirely original, I'm ok with that) 

But first I gotta do the gigs I already agreed to do. Hybrid stuff....... 


thanks for the spin and the thoughts....


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## kid-surf (Aug 6, 2006)

Lex @ Sun Aug 06 said:


> Kid..
> 
> Of course...all of this is just my personal opinion...weather u'll care for it is your choice..
> 
> ...




No prob.... you are entitled to your opinion. Yet, I know in my gut what I'll ultimately turn into as a writer. Currently I'm ok with where I'm at since I don't have as much experience as most, and have work. I am confident that I will get to the level I am aiming for. I do what i can, and that's currently good enough for me (and the people who hire me). 

The fact that I was asked to do some music for a studio film tells me I'm on the right track. 

As far as not being as good as Powell: I've not heard anyone else as good as Powell here. Maybe I've just not heard their music. It's possible...... maybe you're that guy? But no, I'm not hearing everyone here (except me) as being class-A league composers who are entirely original. That's just not what I'm hearing. (no offense to anyone). I hear mostly, people trying to get better. Even the guys with the most respect..........


I may feel your music is bringing nothing new as well. Most people don't bring much new to the table in my view. If you yourself are constantly rejuvenating this art form, congrats to you! You'll be rich shortly! 

If you are already "the man", congrats....

Your opinion has been noted........


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## Lex (Aug 6, 2006)

Kid...

Now u r turning this in to a cat fight simply cause u didnt like what I said..

*"But no, I'm not hearing everyone here (except me) as being class-A league composers who are entirely original. That's just not what I'm hearing. (no offense to anyone). I hear mostly, people trying to get better. Even the guys with the most respect.......... "*

Couldnt agree more...but there r ppl who can nail this style better round here, Tob and Folman come to mind...

As for my stuff...nah man Im not reinventing anything...my stuff sux...but it pays the bills...

Point I was trying to make is that if u do a Powell style cue that turns out bland, nothing wrong with it as long as your client is happy...but if u tell to yourself that its not bland but "just different" and "in your style", dont see how can u improve, and Im sure u could...


Alex


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## pdzl (Aug 6, 2006)

This is very good work, but I liked the other demo you shared with us more.

I enjoyed the choir, is that SOV?

I have nothing to complain about really, the production is good and it's definitely a lot better than a lot of the demos we hear on this thread.

It is professional without a doubt on many levels.

One of my complaints with the hollywood and tv sector of music is a lot of composers have lost the ability to write great melodies and interesting harmonies that are innately memorable. This is a problem I often hear in the demos and music that I hear in this forum, NS, elsewhere. 

I don't find any musical substance or heart touching music in many of these demos. It seems to me like many composers are falling into the trap of getting the job done and that's it. 

I guess everyone is just trying to do chase/trailer or movie background music lately.

Even though many of people within our circle and abilities to orchestrate, tend to look down on pop composers, they have the one aspect that is often lacking in the hollywood/film/tv arena.

Anyway that is a side topic, maybe for midphase's thread from a while back.

So in short, I wish some of these had better melodies to get hooked onto, because I do like your orchestration, production and skills.

Good work though. I enjoyed the other demo you shared with us too, and I hope to hear more for you to share.


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## choc0thrax (Aug 6, 2006)

pdzl @ Sun Aug 06 said:


> Even though many of people within our circle and abilities to orchestrate, tend to look down on pop composers, they have the one aspect that is often lacking in the hollywood/film/tv arena.



This is true, they have people who write the melodies for them. I need one of those!


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## kid-surf (Aug 6, 2006)

Alex ---

*" Now u r turning this in to a cat fight simply cause u didnt like what I said.. "*

Not the way I see it at all. I see it as... you stating your opinion of my music and me responding to that opinion. Nothing more than that. If I disagree with some of the things you are saying, that's my prerogative. And you are free to disagree with my response to you. Sometimes people don't agree with each other....

*"Couldnt agree more...but there r ppl who can nail this style better round here, Tob and Folman come to mind..." *

Good for them... If that was somehow related to my own career I may find it more significant. Yet I haven't heard the cues you're speaking of, so as of now you're assuming I should just take your word for it. Either way, I'm sure John Powell is better than both. But, so what? Interesting point of view you have. Especially when you tell me that your own music sux.


Funny you'd say "this style", when there is only 'one' cue in the four above that sounds anything like Powell. 

*Point I was trying to make is that if u do a Powell style cue that turns out bland, nothing wrong with it as long as your client is happy...but if u tell to yourself that its not bland but "just different" and "in your style", dont see how can u improve, and Im sure u could... *


It's your "opinion" that all the music above is either bland or attempting to be reminiscent of Powell, and TV-ish at the same time (which is obviously a put down -- let's call it as it is). Well, from where I sit that's 'one' guys opinion. Hard for me to see it differently when those are the facts. Yes, i've noted your opinion. If more people turn up with a similar beliefs I'll then note their opinion. It's simple math.

If you are focusing entirely on the cue in the other thread, you've lost me. 



Of course I'm trying to get better, and AM getting better.... cue by cue. But you can't please everyone, right. That shouldn't be a revelation. (not every composer digs Zimmer's music--or many other Class-A guys for that matter. So it's no surprise someone would not like mine). But no, don't assume I'm happy to remain where I'm at indefinitely. I doubt anyone would set out to stay stagnant, maybe you do? I stated in the other thread that I probably rushed the one cue because it wasn't for anything and I wanted to go surf. So I already agreed that "that" cue could have been better. Please don't put words in my mouth to try and make it appear as if I feel that cue was perfect. Or any of my cues for that matter.

But no, I don't believe my music is bland and shitty. Sorry... So if that is what you're trying to get me to admit, you're wasting your time. I promise.

If you believe so, cool. That's how this "opinion" thing works... As said before, I've noted yours.

Yes, we/I got it, you think my music is bland and not very good. Is there anything else?


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## Lex (Aug 6, 2006)

"As always, be as brutally honest as you wish. You ain't gonna hurt my feelings. I'm not a cry baby."

right...

Alex


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## kid-surf (Aug 7, 2006)

pdzl --

*This is very good work, but I liked the other demo you shared with us more. *

Which one, the orchestral thing or the trailer?

Again, can't please everyone. 


*One of my complaints with the hollywood and tv sector of music is a lot of composers have lost the ability to write great melodies and interesting harmonies that are innately memorable. This is a problem I often hear in the demos and music that I hear in this forum, NS, elsewhere.*

I believe this to be a personal issue of the "director" mostly. 

Take horror music for example. Some people like to hear melodic horror scores. For the most part I hate that approach, I don't believe it to be scary to hear melodic lines when the intention is to freak the shit outta me. "Sick" disgusting sounds are scarier to me, matched with some creepy theme NOT played on the piano. That's scary "to me". One example of my view that may differ from most.......


Anyway....

I think when you/we start down the path of talking about melodic this and that, memorable lines and so forth. I think we're getting very close to "composer-ego-land". Where the music is now more important than the film it's asked to accompany. And that's not why I do this. I believe the "FILM" to be the most important factor of what type of music plays to "IT". I think we've seen many films that would frankly play foolish with strong melodic lines. Many of the films I personally like fall into that category (non melodic). 

Yet, I do understand your point of view, but I don't believe it's the right approach to film music as a rule. 

There is a film I'm trying to land where the director wants music with "NO" melody, or no music at all if it's not possible to achieve music with no melody. (try pitching that). Well, It's his film and vision. The film comes first. They could always make films without any music, and might in this case, who knows? We probably shouldn't forget that the reason for making a film in the first place is to tell what someone believes to be a profound story. And the reason to make film music is to "assist" in setting the tone of the directors vision of the tonal quality their film is to carry.

That's the way I see it........

So my point is --- I like where film music is currently at. I'm not interested in hearing what would be to me the wrong scores matched up to films they don't belong with. Nor would I enjoy those films as a movie goer. I simply believe that if there are composers out there who believe the opposite of me that they should only take jobs which allow them to be highly melodic. 

So....  I apologize for not having more hooks in my music. But as I've said, you're/we're never going to please everyone, and I'm personally ok with that.

Thanks for enjoying it as much as you did. That's the most I could hope for. And thanks for taking the time to spin them.... and share your views of music in general.


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## kid-surf (Aug 7, 2006)

Lex @ Sun Aug 06 said:


> "As always, be as brutally honest as you wish. You ain't gonna hurt my feelings. I'm not a cry baby."
> 
> right...
> 
> Alex



Guess what, you haven't hurt my feelings. I'll let you know if you have... or if I shed a tear. 

"Crybaby" in my book means that you let things get you down, not that you will sit there with your mouth closed while someone slams you. Now you know. 

The brutal honesty thing goes both ways with me, homie....


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## PaulR (Aug 7, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Sun Aug 06 said:


> pdzl @ Sun Aug 06 said:
> 
> 
> > Even though many of people within our circle and abilities to orchestrate, tend to look down on pop composers, they have the one aspect that is often lacking in the hollywood/film/tv arena.
> ...



George Martin once said that most of the good melodies happen within the span stretch of your hand on a keyboard - there's a lot in that. Naturally that's not necessarily the rule of thumb though. :wink:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 7, 2006)

pdzl @ 6/8/2006 said:


> One of my complaints with the hollywood and tv sector of music is a lot of composers have lost the ability to write great melodies and interesting harmonies that are innately memorable. This is a problem I often hear in the demos and music that I hear in this forum, NS, elsewhere.



Like Kid said earlier, keep in mind that often, we are not in control of whether or not there is a strong melody in our cues. If the director or producer decides that the score shouldn't have much melodic content, then that's what they get. It may have to do with the fact that often, they don't want the music to call too much attention to itself.

It's easy to make the cue do whatever you want when you're working in a vacuum, but when you're writing for film/tv, you _generallly_ have to follow the temp, you're _collaborating_, it's not just _your_ call.


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## michaelv (Aug 7, 2006)

There's currently a reaction to the "big theme" in films, I think: even the blockbusters, Superman excepted , but that's a special case. It's cyclical. When John Williams burst on the blockbuster scene the sweeping theme was perceived as old-hat, but he reinvented it, then everyone was doing it. Given time that type of style will return.

Kid: pay no attention to your detractors. You are brimming with ideas and musicality and sound very hip to me, whilst retaining a real sense of harmony and form. A recent mock up,which has caused a big stir here is undeniably impressive, but contains precious little in the way of original musical thought, though I concede it's probably a utilitarian showpiece.

You're right, Ned: scoring for film and even TV is very much a collaborative process. Compromise, but not neccssarily at the cost of integrity.


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## Rob Elliott (Aug 7, 2006)

Kid,

Haven't had time to read all the posts but IMHO this is nicely original and refreshing. With all the examples bombarding our ears, it is sometimes difficult, at least for me, to find a 'voice' of my own. Again nice job.

Rob


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## Lex (Aug 7, 2006)

lol...dude, I was rdy to "wrap up" after my first post...just gave my opinion like any1 else in this thread...u insisted on draging it in to more then that..

So, yeah...its wraped as far as Im concerned, whatever it is that u think there was "betwen you and I"..

take care,

Alex


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## kid-surf (Aug 7, 2006)

I thought we had a budding love affair...

Later...


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## Lex (Aug 7, 2006)

Who knows....if we tryed more maybe our love would have flourish...but its all over now..*sob*..u'll allways have a special place in my heart..

 

Alex


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## kid-surf (Aug 7, 2006)

Yeah, who knows what could have been. 

Although, my true love will always be Choc0. :twisted:


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## Lex (Aug 7, 2006)

Damn Choco, that slut...I could have guessed he was behind this!

:shock: 

Alex


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## Craig Sharmat (Aug 7, 2006)

narrarator..."and so our 2 lovers go off whistfully into night, never to be seen again?"


btw, enjoyed the cues and discussion, it was interesting seeing the different view points unfold.


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## kid-surf (Aug 7, 2006)

He does get around.... :mrgreen: 

I think Prince wrote a song about him.......  ("Sexy-MF")


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## kid-surf (Aug 7, 2006)

Craig Sharmat @ Mon Aug 07 said:


> narrarator..."and so our 2 lovers go off whistfully into night, never to be seen again?"
> 
> 
> btw, enjoyed the cues and discussion, it was interesting seeing the different view points unfold.




Craig, you're hired! :D That was beautiful.... Now *that* brought a tear to my eye. :mrgreen:

Glad Alex and I could provide some form of entertainment one way or another. :lol:


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## choc0thrax (Aug 7, 2006)

Guys, don't fight, you can both have me. I'm glad we figured out the real reason for any tension here has nothing to do with music but with wanting hot man sex with choco. Seems to be the root cause of many arguements I see...it's my gift... my curse.


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## JacquesMathias (Aug 9, 2006)

Great stuff Kid! You should post more! :smile: 

Cheers.


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## kid-surf (Aug 9, 2006)

Thanks.....  

Where'd my boyfriend go? :shock: :neutral: 

choco0... choco0... err? choco0... ?


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