# Anyone using a 2009 Mac Pro running Catalina?



## DervishCapkiner (Mar 10, 2020)

Hi VI,

it's mostly in the title but I just wanted to ask if there are any of you folks using this combo or perhaps Mohave instead?

Have you came across any problems?

I presume also in doing so you've had to update your graphics card to something like a gtx 680 or did you find a cheaper or better alternative at all?

Thank you,
Dervish.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 10, 2020)

Reccomend rx580 for video


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## AndyP (Mar 10, 2020)

Hi Dervish,

I have installed Mojave on one of my MacPros. But I had to install a Metal-capable graphics card first (I think a sapphire with 8 GB, I'll have to check back later).

Runs stable and I have no problems with it. I did not install Catalina and I won't do that without need. Never touch a running system is my motto here. I don't know if Catalina is installable either.

Somewhere on the net I found a hack that allows you to install Mojave on older Macs without a metal graphics card. I tried it on a TestMacBook but had inverted colours in the menus. White was black. I think you could still play with the day and night mode, but I didn't try it any further.


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## DervishCapkiner (Mar 10, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> Reccomend rx580 for video


Hi Dewdman,

Is the 580 better than 680 in your recommendation then to use for Logic Pro x writing to picture?


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## DervishCapkiner (Mar 10, 2020)

AndyP said:


> Hi Dervish,
> 
> I have installed Mojave on one of my MacPros. But I had to install a Metal-capable graphics card first (I think a sapphire with 8 GB, I'll have to check back later).
> 
> ...


Hi Andy,

Thanks for your reply.

This says 'metal capable' which is most likely what you're saying here I hope.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nvidia-Geforce-GTX680-Alienware-Mac-Pro-Mojave-Catalina-Metal-support/254529214975?hash=item3b431f99ff:g:i-AAAOSweP9eU~zX
This is what I'm going to get hopefully but will upgrade to Mohave and not Catalina on your advice.

Thank you,
D


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## AndyP (Mar 10, 2020)

I'm not quite sure about this card, I think it must be flashed for MacOS.
I know that the Nvidia cards of the GTX series need less power which is an advantage.


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## DervishCapkiner (Mar 10, 2020)

AndyP said:


> I'm not quite sure about this card, I think it must be flashed for MacOS.
> I know that the Nvidia cards of the GTX series need less power which is an advantage.


I think this is the one you're using right Andy?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sapphire-RX-580-Nitro-Graphics-Card-8GB-GDDR5-DVI-D-HDMI-DisplayPort-AMD/274254096818?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3fdad169b2:g:58oAAOSwPjJePY~C
I know nothing about the difference of these two things but it looks like this one is perhaps more modern. I'm presuming that's better in terms of longevity and not having to purchase another one sooner....hmmm back to the drawing board.

İn fact this is I think the one that Dewdman has recommended also.


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## AndyP (Mar 10, 2020)

DervishCapkiner said:


> I think this is the one you're using right Andy?


Yes, that's the one I use!


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 10, 2020)

I don't know anything about the GTX, but the RX580 was specifically listed in an Apple document as supported, and is supported at least through Catalina. it is Metal, which is crucial for Mojave and Catalina.

There is also a less expensive RX560 that Nick and others have also used which works perfectly fine.

There is also an RX590 out now but I don't have any experience or knowledge about it, I would check the mac rumors site before buying that if you decide to. I think its probably just an updated version of the same thing, but check around.

The RX580 comes in a bunch of different variants. The specific one that was mentioned by Apple a few years ago as being supported was I believe the Sapphire Pulse. I am looking for that document now. Probably any one of the RX580 would work though. I bought exactly what Apple documented to be safe, but I think lots of people are using the Nitro and other variants of the card.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 10, 2020)

Regarding flashing, the RX580 cannot be flashed and you don't need to. It just means that during boot up you have black screen.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 10, 2020)

Here's the Apple support document: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208898

I am using the Sapphire Radeon Pulse.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 10, 2020)

Note also you will need to upgrade to High Sierra first. High Sierra includes firmware upgrades that are needed. and in order to upgrade to High Sierra you can't use the new RX580 because it doesn't have a boot screen. So you want to keep your old video card around fro that update. Then you will be required to swap in the RX580 before upgrading to Mojave. Mojave also has another firmware update, but it works with the new card, even with a black screen.

Its not a bad idea to keep the original video card on a shelf just in case down the road you need a boot screen to do some kind of firmware hack or upgrade down the road... FWIW.


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## AndyP (Mar 10, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> Regarding flashing, the RX580 cannot be flashed and you don't need to. It just means that during boot up you have black screen.


I based my answer on the GTX card... Black screen is correct, no issue so far.


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## DervishCapkiner (Mar 10, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> Note also you will need to upgrade to High Sierra first. High Sierra includes firmware upgrades that are needed. and in order to upgrade to High Sierra you can't use the new RX580 because it doesn't have a boot screen. So you want to keep your old video card around fro that update. Then you will be required to swap in the RX580 before upgrading to Mojave. Mojave also has another firmware update, but it works with the new card, even with a black screen.
> 
> Its not a bad idea to keep the original video card on a shelf just in case down the road you need a boot screen to do some kind of firmware hack or upgrade down the road... FWIW.


Dewdman, thanks for taking the time to share all this information.

It looks like I have just bought one called the rx580 nitro ( it's the one in the link above ) which I'm hoping isn't too different from the pulse model you've mentioned.

It is the same one Andy is using so I'm confident it should work... hopefully.

I am on Sierra and don't know if I can update to high Sierra with my current graphics card however I am seeing that it is possible to download software from a chap called dosdude1 ( to upgrade to Mohave ) so I will check to see if he provides a link for high Sierra first - before I remove my original graphics card.

Can't thank you enough for the advice and expertise ( both of you actually ).

Thanks again,
Dervish.


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## JohnG (Mar 10, 2020)

DervishCapkiner said:


> it is possible to download software from a chap called dosdude1 ( to upgrade to Mohave ) so I will check to see if he provides a link for high Sierra first - before I remove my original graphics card.



yikes -- you are going to download your Mac OS from some random 'dude?'

I would poke around Apple first. Unless you know the guy I wouldn't risk it.


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## DervishCapkiner (Mar 10, 2020)

John, you're totally right of course and I am a little worried but a few different channels on YouTube are recommending using this link to update software including dancetech who I've watched for a couple of years.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 10, 2020)

A couple points....


You will need to upgrade to High Sierra first. Mojave will not install onto Sierra. You will be stopped by the installer and told to upgrade to High Sierra first. This is important because the High Sierra installer includes a firmware update that is needed also for Mojave.


High Sierra installer, when it does the firmware update, will require your original video card because it needs the video card's boot screen. 


Mojave requires a metal card to install it. So after you upgrade to High Sierra, then you must swap the new Metal card in and run the Mojave installer. It also has another firmware update, but it is able to do it without a vid card boot screen.


Since you're using a 2009, I'm assuming you have already done the hack to your 2009 cheese greater that makes it functionality identical to a mid 2010 cheese grater. 


DosDude is a good source for the Mojave installer if you are unable to get it from Apple. DoSDude's mojave patcher includes a menu item to download the installer directly from Apple. He is a very well trusted source. However, you do not need to use any DosDude patcher at that point, just use it to download the installer and run the installer normally.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 10, 2020)

DervishCapkiner said:


> I am on Sierra and don't know if I can update to high Sierra with my current graphics card



You can.

Edit - Dewdman already answered. Never mind.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 10, 2020)

not only can you, but you MUST have the old video card installed while upgrading to High Sierra.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 10, 2020)

What happens if you try to boot from an old OS X drive with the Metal video card installed, or use FireWire Target mode?

Moot question, since it's been ages and I haven't had any reason to do it, but I'm curious whether the HS and Mojave firmware will let the new video card work with older OSes.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 10, 2020)

There are two separates issues.


Will a Metal card such as the RX580 work on older versions of OSX


Will a metal card be able to run the High Sierra upgrade 
The answer to #1 I'm not sure. I do believe support for RX580 was added to earlier versions of OSX. So in theory you can put the RX580 into the machine with Sierra and boot up and and everything will run fine. I can't remember which is the minimum version of OSX required in order to use that card.

However when you boot up, you will see a black screen until just before the desktop comes up.. as is the case with Mojave as well. 

But #2 is the issue. The High Sierra installer performs a firmware update from the boot screen (which the RX580 does not provide). Its during that firmware update (which is not in OSX, its in the boot loader). The high Sierra firmware update will require the older video card to be installed in order to get it done.

So basically, yes you can put the RX580 in and probably boot up Sierra and it will probably work. But you will then need to put the old card back in, in order to upgrade to High Sierra, and then put the Metal card back in before upgrading to Mojave.


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## sndmarks (Mar 10, 2020)

FWIW, currently running a 2009 MacPro flashed to 5,1 and upgraded with an RX570. Currently running High Sierra just fine. Getting ready to try Mojave


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 10, 2020)

sndmarks said:


> Getting ready to try Mojave



The RX570 is listed as "might be compatible" on the Apple site. That probably means it'll work.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 10, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> The answer to #1 I'm not sure. I do believe support for RX580 was added to earlier versions of OSX. So in theory you can put the RX580 into the machine with Sierra and boot up and and everything will run fine. I can't remember which is the minimum version of OSX required in order to use that card.



That's the question for me personally, not #2 (which is the question Dervish Capkiner started this thread with, that I think we've answered).

My interest would be in Mountain Lion, the last one Pro Tools 10 is officially compatible with.

One of these years I may just pick up an old machine to run 32-bit software.


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## jcrosby (Mar 10, 2020)

*EDIT:* Looks like someone already replied. Carry on...


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## JoelSim (Mar 10, 2020)

sndmarks said:


> FWIW, currently running a 2009 MacPro flashed to 5,1 and upgraded with an RX570. Currently running High Sierra just fine. Getting ready to try Mojave


What peripherals are you planning to get for the upgraded 4,1 MacPro? Nvme pcie adapters?

I have a 4,1 in storage now and am thinking of reviving it if I'm able to flash it to 5,1 and upgrade to High Sierra/Mojave (Need to buy a metal supported gfx).


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 11, 2020)

JoelSim said:


> Nvme pcie adapters?
> 
> I have a 4,1 in storage now and am thinking of reviving it if I'm able to flash it to 5,1 and upgrade to High Sierra/Mojave (Need to buy a metal supported gfx).



You don't need Nvme, just run SSDs in the internal half-speed (SATA 2) slots. Nobody will know, least of all you.

This is the link to the Apple site Dewdman mentioned:






Install macOS 10.14 Mojave on Mac Pro (Mid 2010) and Mac Pro (Mid 2012)


Learn how to prepare your Mac Pro (Mid 2010) or Mac Pro (Mid 2012) for macOS Mojave.



support.apple.com


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## sndmarks (Mar 12, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> The RX570 is listed as "might be compatible" on the Apple site. That probably means it'll work.


It better work, that's the reason I picked up the new card. HS has been pretty stable though, and I haven't taken the plunge yet. 

All good in Mojave and Catalina at this point?


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## sndmarks (Mar 12, 2020)

JoelSim said:


> What peripherals are you planning to get for the upgraded 4,1 MacPro? Nvme pcie adapters?
> 
> I have a 4,1 in storage now and am thinking of reviving it if I'm able to flash it to 5,1 and upgrade to High Sierra/Mojave (Need to buy a metal supported gfx).



For disk space and stuff I've got 4 SSDs internally that fully saturate the SATA2 busses and 2 large HDDs for storage, plus a USB3 PCI card. I may end up going to a PCIE supported drive - NVME or standard - but my slots are full up with vid cards, audio io, and data io.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 12, 2020)

Are you using 15 mic positions of forearm smashes?

I'm half serious - it doesn't seem possible to saturate a SATA 2 bus.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 12, 2020)

sndmarks said:


> It better work, that's the reason I picked up the new card. HS has been pretty stable though, and I haven't taken the plunge yet.
> 
> All good in Mojave and Catalina at this point?



All good in Mojave over here, in fact better than that - I really like the new features. Desktop Stacks are fantastic - you can be a slob like I am and keep everything neat when you don't need to find something you dumped on the Desktop. And the new screen capture features are bitchin'-A and then some.


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## sndmarks (Mar 12, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Are you using 15 mic positions of forearm smashes?



Is there any other way?!?!


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## DervishCapkiner (Mar 12, 2020)

Sapphire nitro 8gb has just arrived so I am going to try the upgrade to high Sierra before attempting to change graphics card before upgrading to Mohave over the next 24hrs. Pretty scared tbh but here goes...

Thank you for all the advice so far.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 12, 2020)

sndmarks said:


> Is there any other way?!?!



Well, my throughput is way more phat with 16 + three different hall impulses for analog warmth.

But not four. That would be excessive.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 12, 2020)

DervishCapkiner said:


> Sapphire nitro 8gb has just arrived so I am going to try the upgrade to high Sierra before attempting to change graphics card before upgrading to Mohave over the next 24hrs. Pretty scared tbh but here goes...
> 
> Thank you for all the advice so far.



Don't be scared, make a bootable clone of your startup drive to go back to if it doesn't work!

That's mandatory any time you update the OS, but I'm sure you'll be fine.


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## DervishCapkiner (Apr 19, 2020)

Hi folks,

I not only wanted to thank everyone here again now I went through this ( initially scary ) process - thank you very much...really - but also can't believe the difference changing the graphics card has made to the performance of my computer - Logic - and Kontakt. Nothing else, not the RAM or the CPU.. just the blinking graphics card!

Perhaps I was late to the game but I feel like everyone who owns an old cheesegrater mac or who wants to compose with samples and Kontakt and can't afford a £7.5k Imac Pro or £10k Mac Pro needs to know about this way of being able to still use an old Mac. 

Thank you again guys for helping out a stranger.


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## cmillar (Jul 7, 2020)

I just obtained bootable OSX dmg’s from https://www.hackintosh.download/

You get High Sierra 13.6

I have finally got a copy of High Sierra on my 2009 MacPro. (Flashed to 5.1 last year or before)

Everything went smoothly without a problem. I changed the date on my computer to 2017 just to be safe before installing, and also had to allow System Preferences to “open from unverified vendor” (?) when prompted.

I’ll send him a donation for sure! Just upgrade my wife’s MacBook from OSX El Capitan with Sierra download and then the High Sierra download. All good!


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## rnb_2 (Oct 22, 2020)

motomuso said:


> I realize this is an older thread but I, with my trusty mid-2010, plan to go to Mojave as well but where on earth does one find the installers these days for High Sierra and Mojave?



To get High Sierra, go to this Apple Support page:






How to download macOS


Download and install current or previous versions of the Mac operating system.



support.apple.com





There's a link there that should connect to the High Sierra installer in the App Store. Once you're on High Sierra, you should be able to download Mojave via the App Store, as well.


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## motomuso (Oct 22, 2020)

rnb_2 said:


> To get High Sierra, go to this Apple Support page:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks very much rnb! I was thrown off thinking you had been talking about an actual Hackentosh setup and before that I was asking for links that were just above my question. Sorry for deleting my post containing the query. I shall forge on, undaunted. Logic 10.5 was the tipping point for me - that and the new Komplete 13 offerings.


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## Kamil Biedrzycki (Oct 22, 2020)

Did you guys flashed your new graphic card? I own 2010 Mac Pro with RX580 Saphire Nitro 8GB and I can't see EFI boot screen :( so upgrading to Mojave is possible but risky. I still have old graphic card when I want to change something in system .


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## motomuso (Oct 22, 2020)

I have read that we will not expect to get a boot screen with this setup, which I believe is the only setup which will allow Mojave 10.14:

* Metal capable graphics card
* Mojave

I may be wrong. Goodness knows I have been once or twice.


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 22, 2020)

I use 2010 macpro with rx580, no boot screen. I upgraded to mojave just fine. In the future I might get my rx580 flashed or might not. It could be useful mainly if I decide later to convert the macpro into a windows box, but both mojave and catalina will install and boot up without a flashed video card


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## rnb_2 (Oct 22, 2020)

For what it's worth, I have a Vega 56 eGPU with my 2018 Mac mini, and I don't get a boot screen via DisplayPort. It boots fine, but I have to switch to HDMI or USB-C direct to the mini when I run system updates.


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 22, 2020)

no boot screen should be needed for any system updates! Apple made sure even that the firmware update in Mojave didn't require a boot screen precisely because they required a metal card for Mojave and knew that 5,1 MacPros, still supported by Apple for Mojave, would not have a boot screen with a metal card. I can't think of any reason why your mini would need a boot screen either.


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## rnb_2 (Oct 22, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> no boot screen should be needed for any system updates! Apple made sure even that the firmware update in Mojave didn't require a boot screen precisely because they required a metal card for Mojave and knew that 5,1 MacPros, still supported by Apple for Mojave, would not have a boot screen with a metal card. I can't think of any reason why your mini would need a boot screen either.



Sorry, I should have been clearer - Apple recommends disconnecting eGPUs during system updates. It doesn't have anything to do with the lack of a boot screen.

The biggest issue with not having a boot screen in the past was difficulty booting to Windows via the Option key - I haven't tried it recently, since I no longer have a Windows disk connected to my mini.


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 22, 2020)

yep about windows. You can even still do that by going to recovery mode first and then jump over, but its a PITA. Anyway, if I were using bootcamp I'd flash my card. Maybe someday I will, but its not urgently needed for the question of running Mojave or catalina.


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## sinkd (Oct 23, 2020)

JoelSim said:


> What peripherals are you planning to get for the upgraded 4,1 MacPro? Nvme pcie adapters?
> 
> I have a 4,1 in storage now and am thinking of reviving it if I'm able to flash it to 5,1 and upgrade to High Sierra/Mojave (Need to buy a metal supported gfx).


Definitely worth it if you need a second machine.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 23, 2020)

Kamil Biedrzycki said:


> Did you guys flashed your new graphic card? I own 2010 Mac Pro with RX580 Saphire Nitro 8GB and I can't see EFI boot screen :( so upgrading to Mojave is possible but risky. I still have old graphic card when I want to change something in system .



Mojave RX560, no boot screen and I couldn't care less. It would just distract me from looking at my navel anyway.


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## motomuso (Oct 23, 2020)

I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas with my RX580 coming Monday. I'm looking forward to the world of possibilities which will open up thanks to this nearly modern OS upgrade. (I don't like to rush into things) Thanks to Apple Silicon I now have a great excuse for hanging on to this trusty 5,1 besides just being an inveterate cheapskate. I'm waiting for Apple Silicon; yeah, that's it.

Apologies to you, Dervish for skitching on to your thread; it has been the most concise source of information I've found as I plunge headlong into 2018. And for the future - maybe Catalina even!


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## Michael Antrum (Oct 23, 2020)

@motomuso

There's a facebook group called MacProUpgrade. It's full of people upgrading their cheese graters, lots of helpful advice. Definitely worth joining....


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 23, 2020)

I'm a member of that group, but - sorry to be a Debbie Downer - it's full of people who answer questions about applications for a machine with a list of shit to buy to upgrade it.

There's a thread today from someone asking what to do with his 3,1. The correct answer - mine, natch - is to ask what he uses computers for. But there are 50 answers with "throw in xxxxxx and then buy xxxxx."

In other words, you're going to get much better answers here than there. Composer wankers > Internet wankers.


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## motomuso (Oct 23, 2020)

Thanks for the tip Michael. Yeah, it's very hard to find a group that can somehow avoid weenies. How does vi-control do it I wonder. 
Does it? I should hang out here more. I've been saying that for a few years now. 

Man, this High Sierra has been rough on the Logic Pro AU scan. It was choking and crashing but I think it'll run now. Time to prune the plugins anyway.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 24, 2020)

motomuso said:


> Does it?



Quoted without comment.

Well, I do have a comment. There are some people who know what they're talking about on that group, but there's no way to tell who they are.

And a second comment free of charge: the questions I've posed there have been met with zero useful answers!

But there's no reason not to join, as long as you take everything you read there with many grains of salt.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 24, 2020)

Also, what computer and Logic version are you running? (I'm assuming a 2009 5,1?)

This is the Apple support page about upgrading to Mojave. It's important to follow the steps, because you need the firmware update - which I believe is already done if you've installed High Sierra, but I'm not sure.

Well, will have to post the link later. Life intrudes...


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## motomuso (Oct 24, 2020)

Nick, I think you are asking me? I have the mid-2010 Mac Pro 8-core which, with help from this here thread I have successfully upgraded to High Sierra from Sierra. My rx580 comes Monday and I'll then take 'er up to Mojave. A wealth of information here in this one thread; invaluable I say.

(If you were asking someone else please accept my condiments.)


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 24, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> because you need the firmware update - which I believe is already done if you've installed High Sierra, but I'm not sure.



Both HS and Mojave each have their own firmware update. You cannot update to Mojave without first updating to HS...(which includes firmware and you need your original non-metal card to do it). The mojave update ALSO has another firmware update, but doesn't require a non-metal card to do it.

More than likely that will be the very last firmware update from Apple on the cheese grater.


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## clisma (Oct 25, 2020)

I have just installed Mojave on my flashed 2009 5,1 running a MSI RX560 and the install went fine. Except that I get nothing but a black screen, even when the Finder is up and running.

I've tried zapping the NVRAM, swapping the card with a RX580 (which also does NOT work, same black screen), and disconnecting everything internally & externally. I can get to the boot screen and Finder if I put in my GeForce 750Ti, but no Mojave drivers are available for it, so it's just for troubleshooting purposes.

Has anyone here come across this problem? Would sincerely love some help. I have a clone of my system with HS to which I can return if Mojave doesn't work out, but I genuinely believe this Mac has a bit more life left in it (and I'd like to get to LPX 10.5).


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 25, 2020)

I don't know anything about the MSI version of the RX560 or if anything special is required to make it work. You should ask this question on the macrumors forum.

can you confirm that the firmware was updated to 144.0.0.0.0






try reseting both SMC and PRAM


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## motomuso (Oct 25, 2020)

clisma said:


> I have just installed Mojave on my flashed 2009 5,1 running a MSI RX560 and the install went fine. Except that I get nothing but a black screen, even when the Finder is up and running.
> (snip)
> I genuinely believe this Mac has a bit more life left in it (and I'd like to get to LPX 10.5).



I'm sure you have searched all over the place but in case you haven't seen this one I'll leave you this link since it contains suggestions I have not seen before elsewhere. It seems File Vault was the problem in that case but other suggestions looked promising as well. I'll be doing a similar upgrade and I'll also be following your progress with this disappointing situation. Good luck.









Black screen with Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB on MacPro 2010


Hi Folks, I do have a 2010 Mac Pro with MacOS 10.13.4 running. Bootcamp is in place for a second hard drive and macOS harddrive has filevault. I bought a Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 with 8GB but booting with this card just brings a black screen. No logon screen or anything else. It just brings...




forums.macrumors.com


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 25, 2020)

Interesting. I do have the dual power cables connected on my Sapphire Pulse RX580, I also don't use FileVault...but that is worth investigating both things.


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## clisma (Oct 25, 2020)

motomuso said:


> I'm sure you have searched all over the place but in case you haven't seen this one I'll leave you this link since it contains suggestions I have not seen before elsewhere. It seems File Vault was the problem in that case but other suggestions looked promising as well. I'll be doing a similar upgrade and I'll also be following your progress with this disappointing situation. Good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for that. Indeed, I've come across it and many others as well. For me, it's not FileVault, as I've never used it and it's still off. But I will sift through that post.


Dewdman42 said:


> Interesting. I do have the dual power cables connected on my Sapphire Pulse RX580, I also don't use FileVault...but that is worth investigating both things.


An update with a bit of hope: after doing several SMC and NVRAM resets, and pushing the white button on the motherboard right behind the graphics card (first 16x PCI slot), my RX560 booted to the Finder just fine. 

Currently trying to stress test by putting all my components back in. I'm afraid it could go just as quickly as it came. Maybe I'm being paranoid.


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 25, 2020)

The white button was probably the onboard SMC reset button, and you're probably good to go now.


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## clisma (Oct 25, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> The white button was probably the onboard SMC reset button, and you're probably good to go now.


Yep, I think you might be quite right. Several restarts later and all is still good. I'm not yet through adding my components back in, but so far so good. Thank you.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 25, 2020)

clisma said:


> I have just installed Mojave on my flashed 2009 5,1 running a MSI RX560 and the install went fine. Except that I get nothing but a black screen, even when the Finder is up and running.
> 
> I've tried zapping the NVRAM, swapping the card with a RX580 (which also does NOT work, same black screen), and disconnecting everything internally & externally. I can get to the boot screen and Finder if I put in my GeForce 750Ti, but no Mojave drivers are available for it, so it's just for troubleshooting purposes.
> 
> Has anyone here come across this problem? Would sincerely love some help. I have a clone of my system with HS to which I can return if Mojave doesn't work out, but I genuinely believe this Mac has a bit more life left in it (and I'd like to get to LPX 10.5).



The MSI version of the RX560 is the one Apple recommends and that I'm using. It doesn't need power cables.

So that's not the issue (confirmed because you swapped it out). motomuso's suggestion about File Vault might be the problem, or what Dewdman says - you need to install High Sierra first and then Mojave.


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## clisma (Oct 26, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> The MSI version of the RX560 is the one Apple recommends and that I'm using. It doesn't need power cables.
> 
> So that's not the issue (confirmed because you swapped it out). motomuso's suggestion about File Vault might be the problem, or what Dewdman says - you need to install High Sierra first and then Mojave.


Thanks, but it’s solved. Turned out to be the physical SMC reset button that did it. As per above.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 27, 2020)

clisma said:


> Thanks, but it’s solved. Turned out to be the physical SMC reset button that did it. As per above.



Physical SMC reset button? Is there one I don't know about?

I thought you just shut down, remove the power cord for :30, hit the power button to discharge the power capacitors, and restart?

Glad you solved the problem, of course.


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 27, 2020)

The procedure you mention is the normal and easiest way to do an SMC reset; presuming it actually happens always. Apple also provided an explicit button inside the case for this.

There might be some subtle difference with the logic board button and the normal power-chord-out method of SMC reset, I'm not really sure. But I recently used the SMC button on the logic board also when I upgraded my bluetooth to 4.2 airport extreme card.

I can't seem to find a note or photo about it on the net right now, but if I see it I'll post it later.


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 27, 2020)

This article makes reference to the logic board button: https://www.lifewire.com/reset-smc-system-management-controller-on-mac-2260840

but somewhere I saw a post with an actual photo of it..


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 27, 2020)




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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 27, 2020)

Hm. I wonder whether that's what I need to do to get the Bluetooth to work properly in my Fenvi card.

(It didn't, so I went back to the regular BT with plans to get it working at some future unspecified time when I get around to it later sometime.)


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 27, 2020)

what bluetooth did you try to use in the cheesegrater?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 27, 2020)

This one. The Wi-Fi works really well, but its Bt was really weak, even with my external antenna.

I have a cable to power it from an external USB port, since there isn't one on the motherboard.









fenvi FV-T919 Hackintosh 1750Mbps PCI-E Wifi Adapter - Newegg.com


Buy fenvi FV-T919 Hackintosh 1750Mbps Wireless PCI-E Bluetooth 4.0 BCM94360 Wifi Adapter For macOS Catalina/Big Sur/Monterey/Wi-fi Card For PC, Up to 1300M (5Ghz), Dual Band 802.11ac, Airdrop/Handoff with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 27, 2020)

hmm, interesting. I doubt you would need to reset SMC for that one, but never know doesn't hurt to try. That one is probably more of an issue about making sure you have the right driver for it.

I installed an actual modded airport extreme (which replaces the built in wifi and bluetooth without using any PCI slot). It was over $200 though, but I can say it performs fantastically...if you really want more modern bluetooth, I can't recommend it enough, but its obviously a lot more money then say the thing you got or a bluetooth USB. I couldn't get a bluetooth USB stick to work properly with Bluetooth Midi I was trying to do, but this card works perfectly. Also gave me faster wifi, not that I care.





__





OSXWiFi | Native Support for Apple Broadcom BCM94360CD and BCM943602CDP for PC | HACKINTOSH | Mac Pro | iMac


802.11ac, BT 4.0 and Continuity & Handoff for HACKINTOSH, Mac Pro, iMac with Native Support for Apple Broadcom BCM94360CD for PC, HACKINTOSH, Mac Pro, iMac



www.osxwifi.com





This even supports all the fancy new stuff Apple did with bluetooth like Continuity, Handoff, etc..and supports all the latest Apple wireless keyboards, magic mouse, etc. Kind of expensive though..


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 28, 2020)

Continuity and Handoff are what I was hoping to get working.

$50 is worth it for that; $200 would only be if I wanted to use MIDI like you're doing.

But I've had the stock Bluetooth working beautifully for my Apple Magic Mouse, Magic Trackpad, keyboard, and Belkin 10-key for a good ten years - going back to my 3,1. It just required replacing the internal antenna with an external 2.4GHz Wi-Fi one (because the case blocks the signal).

The Fenvi card is supposed to be plug and play, and in fact it is - except that the Bluetooth signal is so weak that the mouse kept losing connection. I even tried replacing one of its external antennas with mine.

Then I got busy, didn't return the card, and now have $50 less and Wi-Fi I don't need. But I'm still hoping to get it working when I get around to it.


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 28, 2020)

Good to know about the antenna fixing the Magic Mouse, I had read some stuff that they ne4eded newer BT, but nice to hear its just better reception that they need....

And FWIW, the updated bluetooth I got will need improved antenna also, apparently BT4 needs a stronger signal, though i was able to repurpose the internal Wifi antenna for this so i don't actually have an external antenna and so far so good, knock on wood.

I agree $200 is too much for this, I just was in a mood to upgrade my beloved cheesegrater, so I did...with some hesitation...but..it works perfectly so I'm fine with it. Before that I had spent some hours trying to get bluetooth midi to work with several different USB bluetooth sticks...none of which worked and wasted a lot of my time. I just got tired of it and splurged for the airport extreme. 

I haven't even tried continuity or handoff yet, but its on my list. When I get an iPad I will probably use that for the screen sharing aspect I suppose.


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## motomuso (Oct 28, 2020)

DervishCapkiner said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I not only wanted to thank everyone here again now I went through this ( initially scary ) process - thank you very much...really - but also can't believe the difference changing the graphics card has made to the performance of my computer - Logic - and Kontakt. Nothing else, not the RAM or the CPU.. just the blinking graphics card!
> 
> ...



Hear him! 
I second that emotion having just completed updating my mid-2010 Mac Pro to Mojave thanks to Dewd, Dervish, Nick, rnb_2, clisma, AndyP, sndmarks, Michael Antrum, and others in this thread. 

For the sake of documenting: I have installed this RX580 with no problems other than the need to reboot a second time as described in this very thread. 

As Mr Batzdorf said, there's no need to be scared if you have your system drive cloned as a safety net. I had originally shied away from doing this after hearing about "flash this" and "flash that" but all this flashing is done automatically using the regular High Sierra and Mojave installers found on Apple's own App Store. At one time this upgrade had Apple's blessing so it's not risky or hackish. 

If you have a similar old Mac Pro which qualifies just go for it.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 28, 2020)

At least you're not a young woman calling me Mr. Batzdorf.


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## motomuso (Oct 28, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> At least you're not a young woman calling me Mr. Batzdorf.


Ha! I'm not even a young man. A reference: I was using Studio Vision Pro before the audio was actually functional. (They were selling it before it could do what they said it would) [EDIT: Or maybe it was my setup, to be fair.] The single velocity layer acoustic guitar preset in a Roland JV-880 was considered "amazing".


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## DervishCapkiner (Jan 14, 2021)

Hi folks,

hope you're all well.

After 6 months on Mohave and a new graphics card I decided to move up to Catalina however I see no options for choosing my usb bootable drive containing Dosdudes Catalina patcher. 

Just a black screen and won't open any further even though it's switched on.

Can I ask if anyone else had the same problem at all and what did you do?

Thank you,
D


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## DervishCapkiner (Jan 14, 2021)

Any ideas at all please gentlemen, I've tried everything to get to this screen ( attached) where you choose your drive to boot from and it just doesn't work - it seems to get stuck. Computer is on but screen is black. 

I used Dosdude's patcher for Mohave and it worked great..

command r - goes into recovery fine.
command alt p r - resetting PRAM or NVRAM or whatever it does seems to do something.

Just holding option won't get me to that page - infuriating...it's been 5-6 hours on and off! Ready to fling myself out the window!


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## motomuso (Jan 14, 2021)

You have most likely seen this thread but I'll bring it up here because I can feel your pain and it's worth a try. When you get there please keep us up to date on it; I would be thrilled to be able to take this stalwart, silvery wonder up to Catalina.


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## motomuso (Jan 14, 2021)

Beware of an outfit mentioned in the thread I linked: Macvidcards has a "F" rating from BBB and is likely defunct now anyway.
And here, as a last ditch effort, a hail Mary, I give you this thread, where a user says the dosdude1 patch is not needed to go to Catalina. And someone points to a video showing how to upgrade using a config edit with joyful success. I don't know if I have the computer chops to attempt this.

Apologies if you have already been through these.


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## Michael Antrum (Jan 14, 2021)

I stopped at Mojave......and I'm staying stopped.

Fortunately as a Cubase user, I don't feel any need to upgrade, though I'm sure if you are a logic bod then you'll want to go there.....


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 14, 2021)

Really hard to say because it depends on so many factors and no idea what you did or didn't do. 

I suggest you backtrack your steps and hit up the macrumors forum, they are very knowledgable there.

I am not personally knowledgable with what is required to update the 2009 machines...so first you needed to do that, so that it looks completely like a 5,1. Then you needed to make sure you updated the firmware while you installed Mojave, which I have no idea if you did since you were running Mojave on DosDude patch..which should not have even been necessary...so why were you? Perhaps you didn't properly prep your 2009 box before moving forward....so now you might be stuck in some way....honestly have no idea. what GPU are you using? With a proper Metal card, which you really shouldn't be trying to run Mojave nor Catalina without one....will not have a boot screen...

In any case, sorry I can't tell you exactly what to do, but I suggest you backtrack, write down exactly the steps you followed getting you from the last supported version of OS X on your box to whatever you have running now...write it down, then go to the MacRumors forum, post a question and detail the steps you have taken until now. There are very knowledgable people there...


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 14, 2021)

Also, FYI, DosDude says he is unlikely to make a patch for BigSur. There is a Catalina patch, but that will probably be the end of the line, so he says. OpenCore is the wave of the future, get on that...but for now you may have made a mess of your machine...with any luck you have not bricked it...but have you tried to boot from a different older bootable DVD or USB stick or something?


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## DervishCapkiner (Jan 14, 2021)

motomuso said:


> Beware of an outfit mentioned in the thread I linked: Macvidcards has a "F" rating from BBB and is likely defunct now anyway.
> And here, as a last ditch effort, a hail Mary, I give you this thread, where a user says the dosdude1 patch is not needed to go to Catalina. And someone points to a video showing how to upgrade using a config edit with joyful success. I don't know if I have the computer chops to attempt this.
> 
> Apologies if you have already been through these.


Thank you for your time Motomuso,

I'll check it all out but after a day's reading everything, I'm thinking open source sounds like the way forward. I've joined the Facebook group where the programmer is in the group ( Martin lo - I think!).

I am however double checking by reading through the pages you provided.

Thank you again - I feel lucky to be a part of this group,
D


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## DervishCapkiner (Jan 14, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> Also, FYI, DosDude says he is unlikely to make a patch for BigSur. There is a Catalina patch, but that will probably be the end of the line, so he says. OpenCore is the wave of the future, get on that...but for now you may have made a mess of your machine...with any luck you have not bricked it...but have you tried to boot from a different older bootable DVD or USB stick or something?


Dewdman,
Thanks again - it was actually you that helped me get through this in February.

I haven't updated any firmware I think - I'm not sure how you check this.

I installed a Radeon 580 X 8gb on recommendation on this thread ( might have been you or other gentleman ) which meant I could move through high Sierra to Mohave as you know.

Everything has been working fine ( almost ). However funny little things are happening in logic like cc11 not being recognised from my impulse anymore.

So I thought time for a clean update this time and I'll also move completely to kontakt 6 as I love NOİRE piano but when I have it in session with other instruments it it goes a bit haywire.

Sorry, I digress.

My computer was already flashed from 4,1 to 5,1. All I did was follow dosdude instructions - nothing extra and Mohave has been pretty good.

If I can't get to the bootable drive screen I think I'm going to have to try the open source guys though I feel that looks more complicated and I'd like to find out if I can do it from the dosdudes patched Mohave.

Sorry, word diarrhea.

Thank you for all your help,
D


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Jan 14, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> I stopped at Mojave......and I'm staying stopped.
> 
> Fortunately as a Cubase user, I don't feel any need to upgrade, though I'm sure if you are a logic bod then you'll want to go there.....


I am still tinkering with the idea of returning to Mojave. As my system just does not behave the same way it is did before, and certainly seems less responsive now
Which is bad with it being a 2018 Mac Mini

Catalina, still feels broken in a number of ways!


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 14, 2021)

DervishCapkiner said:


> I haven't updated any firmware I think - I'm not sure how you check this.


The way to find out which version of the firmware you have (which should be 144.0.0.0) is to issue the following command in the terminal:


```
system_profiler SPHardwareDataType | grep 'Model Identifier' && system_profiler SPHardwareDataType | grep 'Boot ROM Version'
```

That doesn't help you much unless you can boot into SOME version of OSX....doesn't have to be Mojave or Catalina.. but that will confirm your firmware got updated.

When you run the High Sierra updater..it should have updated your firmware and the Mojave updater would have updated it again to 144.0.0.0. However, technically it is possible to install OSX onto a USB drive...and perhaps skip that step in some way...its very possible to install Mojave onto a volume rather then go through the normal updating process...and you could end up with Mojave and a not up to date firmware. So Again..not sure exactly what you did...but you definitely need to make sure you have the latest and final firmware, which is version 144.0.0.0




DervishCapkiner said:


> I installed a Radeon 580 X 8gb on recommendation on this thread ( might have been you or other gentleman ) which meant I could move through high Sierra to Mohave as you know.



Ok that's good, but that is also why you will never again see the boot screen you are asking about, unless you run OpenCore..then you can see an alternative boot screen. The old boot screen you are used to is only possible with older GPU's that have that support...unless you had the 580 flashed to include a boot screen.




DervishCapkiner said:


> Everything has been working fine ( almost ). However funny little things are happening in logic like cc11 not being recognised from my impulse anymore.



no comment on that, I doubt that is directly related, but never know.



DervishCapkiner said:


> My computer was already flashed from 4,1 to 5,1. All I did was follow dosdude instructions - nothing extra and Mohave has been pretty good.



DosDude's version of OSX has been hacked. Which is fine, its the easiest way to install it, but what I'm not sure is whether his process makes sure to apply the firmware update. As I said before, you didn't really need to use DosDude in order to run Mojave, since you already flashed your machine to 5,1. You should have been able to just install Mojave the normal way...which is what I would have reccomended. So in any case, not sure exactly what the DosDude patch does...or whether you have the latest firmware or not..you should make sure. Most likely you have the latest..but make sure.



DervishCapkiner said:


> If I can't get to the bootable drive screen I think I'm going to have to try the open source guys though I feel that looks more complicated and I'd like to find out if I can do it from the dosdudes patched Mohave.



Unless your 580 has been flashed with a boot screen...there is no boot screen. 

I still recommend you write down exactly what you did do....and go to macrumors. DosDude hangs out there too. you will get the answers you seek, but they are going to ask you some of the questions I am already asking about how you went about installing things. I don't use any USB drives, there could be some issue about that too, not sure.

You said it was working fine and now suddenly its not working fine. what did you change recently?


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 14, 2021)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I am still tinkering with the idea of returning to Mojave. As my system just does not behave the same way it is did before, and certainly seems less responsive now
> Which is bad with it being a 2018 Mac Mini
> 
> Catalina, still feels broken in a number of ways!


I'm surprised to hear that. I have had nothing but complete functionality, smoother performance and positive experience with Catalina compared to Mojave, except for losing some 32bit stuff. 

What seems broken to you now?


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Jan 14, 2021)

I honestly would go the route of OpenCore for Catalina on an old Pro
I know it may seem like there is more work involved, but I myself, m running 0.6.5 OpenCore and I have not had to modify a the config.plist or anything to get it working and booting!

Leaves things completely unpatched and it is much nicer as it does real-time patching of drivers and binaries for macOS. Leaving compatibility intact


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 14, 2021)

I will write up to some detail about my exact setup which does have some Kext injection to get full hardware acceleration but also a way to get apple updates. This is generally a highly vetted setup that many people are using. Everything works 100% including the night color modes, fancy Bluetooth features, etc. I also combined opencore with rEFInd which basically gives me a better boot menu, and a quick wat to boot in “update mode” using slightly different open core settings. I’m very happy with it. If and when I decide to add windows booting I will do it in legacy mode and rEFInd will be the boot picker so that basically it won’t go through opencore at all for that or for booting to Mojave in an emergency either. More details will follow


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 14, 2021)

And ps I don’t think anyone will be running Big Sur on the grater without opencore. The gurus are saying in a few weeks there will be some updates to some of the popular kext injections and possibly opencore itself which may remove some of the issues that early Big Sur adopters have been having


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## DervishCapkiner (Jan 15, 2021)

After re-reading everything today I'm definitely going open source so thank you very much for the recommendations.

In answer to a few questions from Dewdman - I didn't have the option ( or perhaps was doing something incorrectly ) to upgrade past Sierra.

I'll attach my hardware overview page and system information.

I purchased the machine from ebay a few years ago which at the time said 'flashed to 5,1'. I believe this means a 2009 computer thinks it's a 2010 computer.

Also, I have checked and my boot rom version is 144.0.0.0.0 so hopefully that means things are okay.

My next port of call will be go to macroumors and ask how I can move from a patched dosdude version of Mohave to an opensource version of Catalina.

Thanks again gentlemen,
D


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