# Pc to Apple studio



## morgs500 (Sep 24, 2022)

Hi I built my Pc a few years ago have saved a little bit of money and was think to go over to the Apple studio but I'm and unsure if the benefits would be worth it I have herd a lot of people raving about this machine. My pc has the i7-8700k cpu 32 gig ram two external ssd .Would the apple be a big step up or maybe i should try to upgrade my current machine .Thanks in advance


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## resonate (Sep 24, 2022)

just. don't. for the same amount of money you can get a monster pc. you will be happy. you know the environment well. why bother? m1 environment is not yet ready for rock and roll... its a transition period. my two cents. research well first.


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## morgs500 (Sep 24, 2022)

Thanks for your response have done a lot of research of course conflicting reports some saying the mac studio is amazing machine different architecture of course . interested what would be a good upgrade path to my existing system?


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## José Herring (Sep 24, 2022)

Curious about this too. Looking forward to seeing what happens with the Mac Studio line this coming year.


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## NoamL (Sep 24, 2022)

Your single-core CPU speed would go up considerably. That i7 chip scores 1200 on Geekbench and the M1Max scores 1800. I upgraded to the Max from a ~1000 rated MacBookPro and noticed a big performance boost. Particularly the loading speeds of instruments and save times of projects.

The 64GB of RAM on the Max model is also a big upgrade. This is why I was excited about this machine, it's finally a machine that hits near how composers would specc a 'custom Apple computer.' Right in between a laptop and a hulking "Mac Pro."

The extra RAM & storage on the Ultra model is a bit overspecced for composers I think. Although who knows what the future brings.

Long term I don't expect PC will ever lose to Apple on price, and you'll be locked into the Apple ecosystem. So those are two downsides (irrelevant for me as I was already locked in as a LogicX user).

Apple heavily markets the advantages of 'system on chip' but you can buy just powerful a CPU from Intel and make your own machine.

And I highly recommend _not_ getting the matching "Studio Display", get a 3rd party one.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 24, 2022)

resonate said:


> just. don't. for the same amount of money you can get a monster pc. you will be happy. you know the environment well. why bother? m1 environment is not yet ready for rock and roll... its a transition period. my two cents. research well first.



just. do.

The reason: everyone should do what I do.

Seriously, how can anyone make an absolute statement telling someone whether to upgrade to a new Mac or not! There are far too many variables, not the least of which is what you're going to do to your PC. Usually that means buying a whole new motherboard and processor and memory... and before you know it all you have left is the case, when you realize you need a bigger power supply and your video card is the wrong kind of PCI and and and and and.

But one thing I can tell you is that the Apple Silicon environment is totally ready for rock and roll - as long as you're using software that's ready, such as Logic.

My suggestion is to go to an Apple Store and play around with a Mac Studio to see whether you like it. The speed at which everything happens is pretty stunning - I mean things like opening programs, etc.


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## morgs500 (Sep 24, 2022)

So you went from Apple to Apple with as you say a performance boost .Would you say that made a significant difference? Would be interested to hear from people who went from good pc to apple and why.


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## NoamL (Sep 24, 2022)

morgs500 said:


> Would you say that made a significant difference?


In my case yes: I was going from an Apple laptop + PC sample server running VEP, to an all in one machine that can host VEP, DAW and picture playback without skipping a beat. I think the Studio has that advantage, that if you want to leave behind a multi-computer setup, AND you don't want to buy a Mac Pro, there is finally an Apple option. Certainly if you buy the suped up 128GB RAM version.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 24, 2022)

NoamL said:


> The extra RAM & storage on the Ultra model is a bit overspecced for composers I think. Although who knows what the future brings.




Just to be clear, the Ultra model is 2X the base price because it has two processors, which lets you install up to 128GB of RAM rather than the Max maxing out at 64GB.

The base model Ultra starts with 1TB of storage and 64GB, vs. 512GB of storage and 32GB.

I agree that the Ultra is more than you need for a music studio, although that might be different if you're doing surround mixes at high sample rates.


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## morgs500 (Sep 24, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> just. do.
> 
> The reason: everyone should do what I do.
> 
> ...


Thanks Nick you are right there are so many variables. I am sure apple got it right with the mac studio
but I'm just trying to work out if i could get a better value and performance with a upgrade of parts I have already checked out the apple studio but trying to evaluate the best move .


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 24, 2022)

morgs500 said:


> So you went from Apple to Apple with as you say a performance boost .Would you say that made a significant difference? Would be interested to hear from people who went from good pc to apple and why.


It's a bite-in-gonads obvious difference just in how responsive the computer is at the things you do all day long. That alone made it worth it to me.

Performance isn't all there is anyway. At some point people who need to keep up with the latest software (because they're music and audio tech journalists) have to update their machines - among other factors that play into what you want to work with.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 24, 2022)

morgs500 said:


> Thanks Nick you are right there are so many variables. I am sure apple got it right with the mac studio
> but I'm just trying to work out if i could get a better value and performance with a upgrade of parts I have already checked out the apple studio but trying to evaluate the best move .


It depends on how you define value!

As I just wrote, performance is only one factor - although it's an important one.

I actually didn't have a problem with the performance of my previous Mac, it was more compatibility that made me upgrade (plus Apple finally came out with the right machine).

However, as to performance... I also use my machine for art. A preview in Gigapixel AI that would have taken - I'm not kidding - 15 minutes on my Intel Mac takes a few seconds on the Mac Studio. Obviously they optimized the processing to take advantage of the new chips (probably the graphics cores), so that's not across the board. But it is pretty amazing.


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## morgs500 (Sep 24, 2022)

NoamL said:


> In my case yes: I was going from an Apple laptop + PC sample server running VEP, to an all in one machine that can host VEP, DAW and picture playback without skipping a beat. I think the Studio has that advantage, that if you want to leave behind a multi-computer setup, AND you don't want to buy a Mac Pro, there is finally an Apple option. Certainly if you buy the suped up 128GB RAM version.


Hi NoamL: Have my pc running VEP also. But cant afford the top line Apple with 128 gig would have to be the 64 gig option if i go that route


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## Technostica (Sep 24, 2022)

morgs500 said:


> Hi I built my Pc a few years ago have saved a little bit of money and was think to go over to the Apple studio but I'm and unsure if the benefits would be worth it I have herd a lot of people raving about this machine. My pc has the i7-8700k cpu 32 gig ram two external ssd .Would the apple be a big step up or maybe i should try to upgrade my current machine .Thanks in advance


Any current PC platform will offer much more headroom than your current system.
So I would split this into two questions:

1. How much performance do you realistically need? If your workflow isn't that demanding, it's easy to over specify with current hardware even if thinking five years ahead.

2. Do you want to move to Apple?
Many pros and some cons, especially as the transition is still in place.

If you need 128GB, then upgrading your PC will be the much cheaper option.
The RAM will be about £400, board £150 and a high end CPU is £400 - £600.

Keep in mind that both Intel and AMD are releasing new platforms next month.
AMD's is a big change, whereas Intel's is more of an evolution.
If you take that route, then prices will climb a bit, so budget for another £300 - £500.


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## resonate (Sep 24, 2022)

The sequencer you use would also be an important factor.


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## morgs500 (Sep 24, 2022)

resonate said:


> The sequencer you use would also be an important factor.


Hi how is the sequencer a important factor .Cubase 12 ?


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## morgs500 (Sep 24, 2022)

Technostica said:


> Any current PC platform will offer much more headroom than your current system.
> So I would split this into two questions:
> 
> 1. How much performance do you realistically need? If your workflow isn't that demanding, it's easy to over specify with current hardware even if thinking five years ahead.
> ...


Thanks for your response .So i have the i7-8700-K CPU and the ROG maximus x hero board are the new boards and processors that much better ? .128 ram would be good nice but i could get away with 64 
Are the new processors a significant step up .Thanks


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 24, 2022)

morgs500 said:


> Hi how is the sequencer a important factor .Cubase 12 ?


I'd do some research into how well Cubase works on an Apple Silicon Mac.

That doesn't mean it doesn't run well, because for all I know Steinberg has updated it! But there have been times when Cubase ran better on PCs than on Macs.


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## Technostica (Sep 24, 2022)

morgs500 said:


> Thanks for your response .So i have the i7-8700-K CPU and the ROG maximus x hero board are the new boards and processors that much better ? .128 ram would be good nice but i could get away with 64
> Are the new processors a significant step up .Thanks


The single and multi core performance has increased a lot since the 8 series and especially for multi core.
Up to 16 faster cores versus 6 slower cores gives you a rough idea how big the difference is and the next generation offers another big step up.
Then there’s the move to PCIe 5 which will see SSDs in the range of 10 to 15 GBs.
But one has to be realistic and look at the actual bottlenecks in one’s workflow.
If a bottleneck is more related to old software, then throwing hardware at it might not improve things noticeably.

If you at the best case scenarios with Apple’s latest platforms, the gains are remarkable.
But they tend to rely on specific new software for certain types of applications.
There aren’t across the board gains in performance at anywhere near that level.
This doesn’t detract from the platform, but it shows you that you have to look carefully at your workloads.
Where are you hurting right now for performance?


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## morgs500 (Sep 24, 2022)

Hi
So i am working with VEP with Cubase 12 on a single machine i don't have many instances but its still eating a lot of ram so i am looking for better performances .I have not kept up in the loop with the new technology so i am looking in investing the best bang for buck for so kind of future proofing and want to spend wisely


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 24, 2022)

There's no future-proofing with computers. If you need more power, you sell or retire the machine and get the next one.


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## easyrider (Sep 24, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> There's no future-proofing with computers. If you need more power, you sell or retire the machine and get the next one.


PC‘s allow you to keep the chassis, the SSD the ram and just swap out the motherboard and chip….

I‘ve down this numerous times and just swapped out the motherboard and chip and kept everything else…

I went from 9900k to 5950x in about 20 mins and not reinstalled the OS…only hardware change was motherboard and chip.

One of the reasons I love PC….sell motherboard and chip and be next Gen in minutes.


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## Technostica (Sep 24, 2022)

morgs500 said:


> Hi
> So i am working with VEP with Cubase 12 on a single machine i don't have many instances but its still eating a lot of ram so i am looking for better performances .I have not kept up in the loop with the new technology so i am looking in investing the best bang for buck for so kind of future proofing and want to spend wisely


The best platform for longevity will be the new AMD platform as it uses a new socket, AM5, which will get one or possibly two or more new CPU ranges released for it.
So buy a board next month and even if you buy the fastest CPU for it, in two or three years or so you will be able to upgrade and get at least fifty percent more performance more than likely.
Plus it will have PCIe 5, so if your storage becomes a bottleneck you can add faster SSDs than currently available.

With RAM, buy 2x 32GB now and you will be able to upgrade easily in the future by adding another pair.


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## NoamL (Sep 24, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I'd do some research into how well Cubase works on an Apple Silicon Mac.
> 
> That doesn't mean it doesn't run well, because for all I know Steinberg has updated it! But there have been times when Cubase ran better on PCs than on Macs.


Cubase 12 can run native on Apple Silicon, I believe.

LogicX 10.7 is lightning fast in native AS mode.


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## morgs500 (Sep 24, 2022)

Thanks do we know what the pricing of the new AMD CPU and motherboards are likely to be?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 24, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Cubase 12 can run native on Apple Silicon, I believe.
> 
> LogicX 10.7 is lightning fast in native AS mode.


Logic is way faster, i'nit. It only takes 1/3 of a second to switch screensets, vs. about 1-1/2 on my previous machine.


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## Technostica (Sep 25, 2022)

morgs500 said:


> Thanks do we know what the pricing of the new AMD CPU and motherboards are likely to be?


AMD have formally announced the prices of the CPUs along with some performance metrics. 
The initial motherboards will seemingly be expensive. 
This due to only the premium chipsets being released at first and to the added complexity of supporting PCIe 5 and DDR5. 

The initial 4 CPUs range from three to seven hundred dollars. 
That covers from 6 to 16 cores.
Available to purchase this Tuesday. 
The second tier boards are only coming a month later I see in October. 
There will be loads of reviews from Tuesday which will also look at the different motherboard chipsets.


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## tony10000 (Sep 26, 2022)

I recently got a new system with a AMD Ryzen 7 5700G. Total cost was less than $1K with 32GB of RAM and 1TB NVME drive. Very pleased with it--the TDP is pretty low and the benchmarks are impressive:



PassMark - AMD Ryzen 7 5700G - Price performance comparison


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## gzapper (Sep 26, 2022)

NoamL said:


> In my case yes: I was going from an Apple laptop + PC sample server running VEP, to an all in one machine that can host VEP, DAW and picture playback without skipping a beat. I think the Studio has that advantage, that if you want to leave behind a multi-computer setup, AND you don't want to buy a Mac Pro, there is finally an Apple option. Certainly if you buy the suped up 128GB RAM version.


I haven't turned my VEP 'puter on since I bought my M1 Max macbook w 64Gigs.
I also haven't heard the fans yet.


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## Eulenauge66 (Sep 28, 2022)

I switched from PC to a Mac Studio and I’ll probably never go back. Cubase is, weird enough, more stable on Mac.

Also, my productivity increased due to the fact that I don’t think about upgrading PCs anymore. Can’t do it with Apple.

And I love the Apple ecosystem and how all my devices work together.


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## stingray306 (Oct 3, 2022)

NoamL said:


> In my case yes: I was going from an Apple laptop + PC sample server running VEP, to an all in one machine that can host VEP, DAW and picture playback without skipping a beat. I think the Studio has that advantage, that if you want to leave behind a multi-computer setup, AND you don't want to buy a Mac Pro, there is finally an Apple option. Certainly if you buy the suped up 128GB RAM version.


May I ask why you still need VEP with the mac studio? I have absolutely hated the way VEP and logic work together (which they barely do, unless I'm doing something wrong) and can't seem to find a good workflow between the two programs. This is one of the reasons I'm considering moving from my imac + sample server PC setup to just a mac studio, and ax VEP.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 4, 2022)

stingray306 said:


> May I ask why you still need VEP with the mac studio? I have absolutely hated the way VEP and logic work together (which they barely do, unless I'm doing something wrong) and can't seem to find a good workflow between the two programs. This is one of the reasons I'm considering moving from my imac + sample server PC setup to just a mac studio, and ax VEP.


VE Pro was quite a bit more efficient than Logic with, say, EW Opus - but that was on Intel.

It only runs in Rosetta on an Mx machine. While I haven't tested it yet (still slowly bringing things over to my Mac Studio), it seems unlikely to beat Logic on the new machines.

However, it's still useful if you still have slave machines running older instrument and processing plug-ins.


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## morgs500 (Oct 10, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> VE Pro was quite a bit more efficient than Logic with, say, EW Opus - but that was on Intel.
> 
> It only runs in Rosetta on an Mx machine. While I haven't tested it yet (still slowly bringing things over to my Mac Studio), it seems unlikely to beat Logic on the new machines.
> 
> However, it's still useful if you still have slave machines running older instrument and processing plug-ins.


Hi IM the starter of this thread and just want to thanks for all the good advice.In the end I went for the Mac studio and I couldn't be happier


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## Fitz (Oct 12, 2022)

Has anyone run a Mac Studio for a master and a PC set of slaves with VEP7?


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## Eulenauge66 (Oct 31, 2022)

Yes, I do. It works perfectly.


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## iMovieShout (Oct 31, 2022)

Fitz said:


> Has anyone run a Mac Studio for a master and a PC set of slaves with VEP7?


I used to have a MacPro 6,1 runing as master with a bunch of Windows PCs as slaves running VEPro.
These days I have a monster dual-CPU Windows PC as my studio PC (Windows10Pro with 512GB RAM, 12TB NVMe) with x12 Windows Servers (each running Windows Server 2016 and VEPro). Having tested a top spec Mac Studio earlier this year, I can definately say that whilst the Mac Studio is faster than my PC, it is not an economic investment, and overall is no better. 
As said before, when the time comes, my next PC upgrade will only require a new motherboard and CPUs (still a £3k investment), but all the NVMe and SSD drives and RAM will remain unchanged.


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## Fitz (Oct 31, 2022)

iMovieShout said:


> I used to have a MacPro 6,1 runing as master with a bunch of Windows PCs as slaves running VEPro.
> These days I have a monster dual-CPU Windows PC as my studio PC (Windows10Pro with 512GB RAM, 12TB NVMe) with x12 Windows Servers (each running Windows Server 2016 and VEPro). Having tested a top spec Mac Studio earlier this year, I can definately say that whilst the Mac Studio is faster than my PC, it is not an economic investment, and overall is no better.
> As said before, when the time comes, my next PC upgrade will only require a new motherboard and CPUs (still a £3k investment), but all the NVMe and SSD drives and RAM will remain unchanged.


12 slaves?


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