# How do I extract a Kontakt IR from a certain library?



## Dracarys (Feb 8, 2021)

Hello,

I'm trying to achieve that classic Celtic fiddle sound that has a slight ring to it, similar to the 8dio Bazantar library, but obviously not a guitar. So, my plan is to take the IR from something like that, or a Sitar library, then run it through something like Fog Convolver, and layer it with another string library. Is there a way to do this? Not sure what steps to take here.

Just to be clear, I'm talking about the timbre or resonance of the instrument, not the reverb, if that makes sense.

Thanks!


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## Dracarys (Feb 8, 2021)

3:15 violins


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## merlinhimself (Feb 8, 2021)

Dracarys said:


> 3:15 violins



cant wait for this game


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## Bman70 (Feb 8, 2021)

Someone on fivver could play that for $20 probably. But why not just use a library like
https://redroomaudio.com/product/traveler-series-celtic-fiddle/?


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## Lindon (Feb 9, 2021)

Dracarys said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to achieve that classic Celtic fiddle sound that has a slight ring to it, similar to the 8dio Bazantar library, but obviously not a guitar. So, my plan is to take the IR from something like that, or a Sitar library, then run it through something like Fog Convolver, and layer it with another string library. Is there a way to do this? Not sure what steps to take here.
> 
> ...


Well step 1 is - check the EULA for the product you are attempting to get the IR from....


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## Dracarys (Feb 9, 2021)

merlinhimself said:


> cant wait for this game


Yeah, I was a month too late in finding that project or I would have been hired.


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## Dracarys (Feb 9, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> Someone on fivver could play that for $20 probably. But why not just use a library like
> https://redroomaudio.com/product/traveler-series-celtic-fiddle/?


Yes it's some generic celtic. That library is decent, I remember someone in the studio having it on his laptop, sounded too country for me, I might pick up Joshua Bell Violin. Anyway, I'm probably going to go for something more like this, and process the hell out of the violins with plate reverbs and what not:


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## Dracarys (Feb 9, 2021)

Lindon said:


> Well step 1 is - check the EULA for the product you are attempting to get the IR from....


And the next steps? I've never pulled an IR before. I get pulling reverbs, but this is a bit different and crosses over in to sound design.


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## Bman70 (Feb 9, 2021)

I doubt EULA is a concern unless you intend to sell it as a sample. If composing your own music, you can sample, remix, and distort your libraries any way you want.

That last example sounds a bit like Heavyocity's Rhythmic Textures. A violin player can get similar by playing exaggerated _sul ponticello _(very close to the bridge).


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## d.healey (Feb 9, 2021)

Use a matching EQ like Voxengo curve.


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## Lindon (Feb 11, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> I doubt EULA is a concern unless you intend to sell it as a sample. If composing your own music, you can sample, remix, and distort your libraries any way you want.
> 
> That last example sounds a bit like Heavyocity's Rhythmic Textures. A violin player can get similar by playing exaggerated _sul ponticello _(very close to the bridge).


"doubt" - often a poor friend in a legal sense....


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## Bman70 (Feb 11, 2021)

Lindon said:


> Well step 1 is - check the EULA for the product you are attempting to get the IR from....


Are you assuming there's a legal problem with the OP recording his own libraries?


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## Lindon (Feb 13, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> Are you assuming there's a legal problem with the OP recording his own libraries?


I'm making no assumptions at all. The OP said:

"similar to the 8dio Bazantar library, but obviously not a guitar. So, my plan is to take the IR from something like that"...

so they are not his own libraries...each library comes with a EULA, the important bit the is "L" - License - users dont own the library, we own a license to use the library, and the license will impose constraints on how you may use it, or re-use it, which may (depending on the developers wishes) include constraints on using the samples, or IRs, outside of the library itself. They may not include these things - but it's best I think to find out if the EULA allows the extraction of samples, or IRs from the library.


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## d.healey (Feb 13, 2021)

Lindon said:


> I'm making no assumptions at all. The OP said:
> 
> "similar to the 8dio Bazantar library, but obviously not a guitar. So, my plan is to take the IR from something like that"...
> 
> so they are not his own libraries...each library comes with a EULA, the important bit the is "L" - License - users dont own the library, we own a license to use the library, and the license will impose constraints on how you may use it, or re-use it, which may (depending on the developers wishes) include constraints on using the samples, or IRs, outside of the library itself. They may not include these things - but it's best I think to find out if the EULA allows the extraction of samples, or IRs from the library.


I think what he wants is a timbre stamp rather than to take an IR file that comes with the library. You can do this by running some of the samples (the origin) through a matching EQ, running the destination audio (the target) through the matching EQ, and applying the spectral difference of the origin to the target. You can do this with Voxengo Curve EQ, Mel Match can also do it if you're using a host that supports LV2 plugins.


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## Bman70 (Feb 13, 2021)

Lindon said:


> I'm making no assumptions at all. The OP said:
> 
> "similar to the 8dio Bazantar library, but obviously not a guitar. So, my plan is to take the IR from something like that"...
> 
> so they are not his own libraries...each library comes with a EULA, the important bit the is "L" - License - users dont own the library, we own a license to use the library, and the license will impose constraints on how you may use it, or re-use it, which may (depending on the developers wishes) include constraints on using the samples, or IRs, outside of the library itself. They may not include these things - but it's best I think to find out if the EULA allows the extraction of samples, or IRs from the library.



There's no practical difference in recording a VI's IR, then using it in your composition, versus using some combination of filters so that only the IR is audible when playing a given VI. Developers have no legitimate claim to restrict such creative use, and there's no need to wonder what's in the EULA before composing with your libraries in whatever way you wish to. OP need only be concerned if his intent is to sell samples / VIs based on derivative sounds.


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## lychee (Feb 13, 2021)

The fiddle is a playing technique, so normally you can play this with any violin library as long as it has the right articulations.

The best would be to have one with the option of choosing the bow position like the Audiomodeling Swam Violin, and Reason Studio Friktion (all physically modeled instruments).
The only sampled library that I know of that does this is the Embertone Friedlander Violin (to see if Joshua Bell Violin, from the same publishers, does this?).

An example with Friktion:




Yes I know, I know ... I made the seller of this VST to everyone, but it is too good!


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## X-Bassist (Feb 14, 2021)

d.healey said:


> I think what he wants is a timbre stamp rather than to take an IR file that comes with the library. You can do this by running some of the samples (the origin) through a matching EQ, running the destination audio (the target) through the matching EQ, and applying the spectral difference of the origin to the target. You can do this with Voxengo Curve EQ, Mel Match can also do it if you're using a host that supports LV2 plugins.


Also you could use EQ match in Fab Filter Q3 (and Q2) or Izotope Ozone.


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## Ilko Birov (Feb 14, 2021)

lychee said:


> The fiddle is a playing technique, so normally you can play this with any violin library as long as it has the right articulations.
> 
> The best would be to have one with the option of choosing the bow position like the Audiomodeling Swam Violin, and Reason Studio Friktion (all physically modeled instruments).
> The only sampled library that I know of that does this is the Embertone Friedlander Violin (to see if Joshua Bell Violin, from the same publishers, does this?).
> ...



Sounds very good! And for that price, I'd say it was a steal if it didn't require Reason.


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## lychee (Feb 14, 2021)

Ilko Birov said:


> Sounds very good! And for that price, I'd say it was a steal if it didn't require Reason.


Unfortunately that requires Reason (rack), and unfortunately also Reason Studio to decide to change the payment policy for the outright subscription. 
You can still buy Reason directly, but there is now only the most expensive version (what a bad idea if you ask me).
So the best would be to subscribe for a month, create the desired fiddle part, and save the track as audio.
On the other hand, if you want to own Friktion permanently, you will also have to pay a subscription or buy Reason at a high price.
Yes, unfortunately again, Friktion is new and is not included in the instrument pack supplied with Reason (maybe in the next version, who knows?).


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## Lindon (Feb 14, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> There's no practical difference in recording a VI's IR, then using it in your composition, versus using some combination of filters so that only the IR is audible when playing a given VI. Developers have no legitimate claim to restrict such creative use, and there's no need to wonder what's in the EULA before composing with your libraries in whatever way you wish to. OP need only be concerned if his intent is to sell samples / VIs based on derivative sounds.


I didn't suggest there was any practical difference. All I said was developers sell products with EULA's and these *can* restrict the use of any part of the delivered product in any way they wish no matter that you or I think it a legitimate restriction or not. But still, you may be an IP lawyer and may know better than me and thus feel its OK to dispense this sort of advice.

Just to be clear - I'm not suggesting the OP cannot do what he wants, only that he reads the EULA first to be assured he is not breaking said EULA.


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