# Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2 Still time to submit!



## Darthmorphling (Apr 28, 2013)

As of now, here are the finished trailers for this project:

Sasje, who finished first!


blender505


darthmorphling


Dimtsak



So it has been decided that for this session we will score a trailer. Specifically for the open source movie "Tears of Steel". More info here:

http://mango.blender.org/

All source files can be found here:

http://mango.blender.org/download/

Joshua, edited the video down to a trailer just over a minute in length. Thanks for all the work Joshua!


Download link: http://my.rhymedcode.net/files/vi/Tears ... railer.mp4

We agreed to increase the deadline to three weeks so some of us could actually learn how to deal with video in our DAW's. Me specifially :mrgreen: So the deadline is May 29.

Anyone can participate in the project, but the requirement is that, regardless of skill level, we give feedback on each submission.

You can see the results of the first Collaborative Project here:

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtop ... sc&start=0

Enjoy!


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## Sasje (Apr 28, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*

Yeah! this will be a good learning experience.  Little bit nervous about it though... :D


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## joshua (Apr 28, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*



Darthmorphling @ Sun Apr 28 said:


> Joshua, edited the video down to a 54 second trailer.



Just to clarify, the trailer starts from *00:00* until around *01:08* after the movie title disappears. Where your music starts and ends is completely up to you.


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 28, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*

I'm not sure where I got the 54 seconds from then. Chalk it up to being old.


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## Lenny13 (Apr 29, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*

@Darthmorphling : I saw you're using Reaper. Did you successfully load the video into the DAW ? I have a black screen instead of the video.

Thx


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## Sasje (Apr 29, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*

Not sure how to approach this yet. As I've never done anything like this before. I have some ideas:

1. Watch trailer, write down the time of key moments/themes with pencil and paper.
2. Think about a intro theme and how to progress it through the trailer
3. Find a good moment to build up tension and release
4. Locate the correct moments for adding sound effects.

Things I notice already: The editing is just as important as the music itself. Like in building up tension, moments of pause and release. It really makes me think differently about the role of an editor actually...


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 29, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*



Lenny13 @ Mon Apr 29 said:


> @Darthmorphling : I saw you're using Reaper. Did you successfully load the video into the DAW ? I have a black screen instead of the video.
> 
> Thx



You have to download VideoLan Client. Reaper is now using that as it's video engine. The only issue is that when I mute the audio I then get a black screen. I'm going to have to strip the audio before importing it.

@Joshua

Could you upload a version without the audio?

Don


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 29, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*

Here are a couple of video tutorials that will help in timing the audio to the picture.




Here is the calculator that both videos refer to.
http://www.fransabsil.nl/htm/eventhit.htm

Don


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## joshua (Apr 29, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*



Darthmorphling @ Mon Apr 29 said:


> The only issue is that when I mute the audio I then get a black screen. I'm going to have to strip the audio before importing it.
> 
> @Joshua
> 
> ...



When I drag and drop a video to Cubase, I believe I get to option to split it into two tracks (separate video and audio track). Then I could mute just the audio track. See if you have that option.

I'll upload no-audio video when I get home tonight.


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## joshua (Apr 29, 2013)

Trailer with NO AUDIO

Download link: http://my.rhymedcode.net/files/vi/Tears ... _audio.mp4


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## Darthmorphling (Apr 29, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*

Through some research I figured out the solution for Reaper. It is a great DAW, but sometimes the way it does things is a bit peculiar.

Here is how to do it for any Reaper users here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuZX06U51zA

Essentially you simply turn down the volume on the video track. Once your music is done, you simple render the project and the old audio is gone and the new is present.


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## joshua (Apr 30, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*



Sasje @ Mon Apr 29 said:


> Not sure how to approach this yet. As I've never done anything like this before. I have some ideas:
> 
> 1. Watch trailer, write down the time of key moments/themes with pencil and paper.
> 2. Think about a intro theme and how to progress it through the trailer
> ...



Gosh, I thought this was gonna be simple until I read point #4 and watched more trailers. But I think I'm gonna start with traditional orchestral instruments first. I could always throw in whoosh-bang if it doesn't work. Good luck, everyone!


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## Nathanael Iversen (Apr 30, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*

I am in! Looks like a fun project. Video in DAW, markers dropped, basic template loaded...Lots of work to do....


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## Sasje (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*

First! :D 

Well, I managed to create this little score today. Because I am not sure I have enough time the coming weeks, pretty busy with work then. Anyway, I managed to create this. I am very bad at video, so it's done in MovieMaker and the quality is therefore very low. If anyone can do a better job, feel free to contact me me and I send the audio file which MovieMaker has messed up. I struggled a bit with the intro. I wish the intro was a bit longer, because it jumps pretty quickly into action packed stuff. Also I've never done any scoring for a movie/trailer, ...first time for everything I guess...

The fun part was doing the sound effects! I never expected that I really enjoyed doing that!


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## joshua (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*

I love the opening. What patch is that?
I think that cue starts late at 0:15
That sound starting at 0:18 creates tension. Really proper with the scene. Good! What patch is that?
Awesome percussion playing!
That last long scene, I love the percussion, but I feel like there needs to be more than holding that pad.
I love the ending, the part where the big drum stops, while the pad and the smaller percussion still playing. You really are good at transitioning/changing direction.


You (and anybody else who doesn't have a video editor) could send me the audio file at [email protected]


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## Darthmorphling (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*

Shouldn't your DAW be sufficient for editing? Reaper is actually a preety decent editor for both audio and video. It doesn't have all of the features that a dedicated video editor has, but for this I think it's perfect.

By the way, if you download the surround stems from the movie site, the center channel seems to have mostly dialogue. The left and right, haven't listened to the whole thing yet, have the sound for the rocket taking off.

I was messing around last night with ProjectAlpha, and dropped a couple of the Braaams .wav files. They hit when the two credits showed up in the beginning. It was really unimaginative and cheesy, but at the same time it worked. don't know if I'm going to keep it, but we'll see.

@sasje I really want to watch the trailer, but I also don't want it to influence my piece. Quite conflicted I must say. I'm sure I will cave during lunch :mrgreen: 

I was somewhat hesitant to do this, but I have to say I'm not as freaked out as I was for the first project.

Don


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## joshua (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*



Darthmorphling @ Wed May 01 said:


> I was messing around last night with ProjectAlpha, and dropped a couple of the Braaams .wav files. They hit when the two credits showed up in the beginning. It was really unimaginative and cheesy, but at the same time it worked.



The trailer really begs for ProjectAlpha and the like. But my goal with music is not to write music for action scenes, so, I'm gonna avoid that hybrid stuff and I want to be really versatile with orchestral instruments and use those solely.


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## Sasje (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*



Darthmorphling @ Wed May 01 said:


> Shouldn't your DAW be sufficient for editing? Reaper is actually a preety decent editor for both audio and video.


Could not find a way to export video in Reaper? it only saved the audio stems... not sure how I can export video from Reaper.




joshua @ Wed May 01 said:


> I love the opening. What patch is that?
> I think that cue starts late at 0:15


That's a free Bone flute soundfont, layered over my free Dark Drones patch.



joshua @ Wed May 01 said:


> That sound starting at 0:18 creates tension. Really proper with the scene. Good! What patch is that?


That's a free 24 Violin thrill soundfont, don't remember where I downloaded this one, I have so many of them.



joshua @ Wed May 01 said:


> Awesome percussion playing!
> That last long scene, I love the percussion, but I feel like there needs to be more than holding that pad.


Yeah that was a bit lazy, I had an appointment when I started to layer the strings, so I rushed it to fill it in a bit. 

Looking forward to what you guys come up with! :D


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## Darthmorphling (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*



joshua @ Wed May 01 said:


> Darthmorphling @ Wed May 01 said:
> 
> 
> > I was messing around last night with ProjectAlpha, and dropped a couple of the Braaams .wav files. They hit when the two credits showed up in the beginning. It was really unimaginative and cheesy, but at the same time it worked.
> ...



I hear you. I'm conflicted as I really love listening to the more orchestral composers like Williams, Shore, and Silvestri. At the same time, Brian Tyler is one of my favorite composers to listen to as well. 

I grew up listening to a lot '80's thrash metal bands. Specifically the ones that had a lot of rythmic riffs. A lot of the hybrid stuff reminds me of that so it does appeal to me. I appreciate the craft that goes into both styles of composing.

I would really like to do something with counterpoint, and/or harmony, as a focus on the next project.

Don


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## blender505 (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*

This looks like a fun idea. Haven't scored a trailer before and I've only tried scored to video once (back when I was first learning), so this was quite an experience for me. It helped that the scenes seemed to be timed (maybe for the next project we can increase the challenge by doing an oddly timed scene or something).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIhsjvrEF5s

Actually, I'm not sure I'm happy with the way it came out, but I'm not sure how I should go about changing it. It doesn't really sound like trailer music to me, but that might be because I wrote it.

I'm curious as to how the mix sounds. It sounds decent to me, but I wrote it and I'm using headphones. Plus, I'm not sure I know what to listen for.

VSL SE Standard, Hollywood Brass Gold, Spitfire Percussion (brand new, only had it for two weeks), and a few free supplements. All effects were also free.

And while we're at it, Reaper.


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## joshua (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*



blender505 @ Wed May 01 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIhsjvrEF5s


I'll write more but, dang!! Next time professionals need not apply.


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## Darthmorphling (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*

@sasje

Terrific piece! I will post my critiques after I listen a few more times, but my favorite was the percussion.

@blender505

I have to agree with Joshua, very professional sounding. I really liked the horns in particular.

Don


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## Mike Marino (May 2, 2013)

Nice job, Blender.


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## blender505 (May 3, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*

Well, at least I know I can make it sound like I know what I'm doing. Thanks.


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## joshua (May 4, 2013)

blender505 @ Wed May 01 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIhsjvrEF5s


How it turns mellow at 00:12. Appropriate with the scene. Good transition
I love the accents at at 00:22, 00:24, 00:27 (love the piano keys!!). It's like watching good coreographed dance.
The brass and string complement really well. Good writing!
Love how you use the percussion sparingly and yet the music still feel complete.

I learned a lot from this. Thanks and come again!


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## Darthmorphling (May 19, 2013)

Well today is the day. It seems we have lost a few people :cry: Hopefully there will be more submissions.

I have updated the first post with the submissions so far. I will do so again if others submit.

Here is my submission:



Libraries used:
Mostly HybridTwo's ProjectAlpha
Spitfire Audio's Albion 1
Recorded in Reaper.

Overall, I am not completely happy with the way this turned out, but neither am I unhappy with it. I did learn a lot about how to use Reaper. I also learned that my recording studio, aka living room, is not the ideal place to mix. This is something that I will need to work on in the future.

I went full on with the hybrid type score. Just kind of wanted to get it out of my system. It was fun, but I still want to do more with traditional orchestration.

Here is a bonus video. I got my first scoring gig. The client was quite picky and even had a temp track that he wanted me emulate. Eight year olds can be quite picky. 

I give you my 2nd grader's short film Piranha.



Don


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## blender505 (May 20, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Sun Apr 28 said:


> We agreed to increase the deadline to three weeks so some of us could actually learn how to deal with video in our DAW's. Me specifially :mrgreen: So the deadline is May 29.



I guess this wasn't suppose to be May 29 then. Since nobody caught that, I guess none of us can do math either.


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## Darthmorphling (May 20, 2013)

blender505 @ Mon May 20 said:


> Darthmorphling @ Sun Apr 28 said:
> 
> 
> > We agreed to increase the deadline to three weeks so some of us could actually learn how to deal with video in our DAW's. Me specifially :mrgreen: So the deadline is May 29.
> ...



Apparently not! I guess I shouldn't be teaching then. Well then the deadline is the 29th.

In the meantime, what would people like to do for the next one?


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## joshua (May 20, 2013)

Yeah, I thought the deadline is the 29th!

I've been busy moving to a new place and trying to catch up with other stuff post-move. I'll see if I could come up with something this coming weekend.



Darthmorphling @ Mon May 20 said:


> In the meantime, what would people like to do for the next one?



Woodwind-based composition.


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## blender505 (May 20, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Mon May 20 said:


> In the meantime, what would people like to do for the next one?


If we're still on open movies, we could do the opening scene from Sintel. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a version without music and sound effect mixed in. It does ask for more traditional orchestration or even ethnic music than Tears of Steel.

Or we could abandon this whole movie idea for now and do something totally different. I like the idea of a woodwind based composition. Woodwinds and pizzicato strings.


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## Darthmorphling (May 20, 2013)

I would be open to doing a woodwind centric piece as well. I like the idea of woods and strings.


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## joshua (May 20, 2013)

Some suggestion for the requirement for a woodwinds piece

- The theme must be played by woodwinds
- Strings can be used as non-main instruments. (Do we want to list other allowed instruments?)
- A flute (or a single woodwind instrument) playing solo backed by non-woodwinds for the WHOLE piece is not accepted
- The piece is between 1-2 minutes in length


We can start this coming weekend. I'll still be doing project #2 but that's OK.


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## Sasje (May 20, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Sun May 19 said:


> Overall, I am not completely happy with the way this turned out, but neither am I unhappy with it. I did learn a lot about how to use Reaper. I also learned that my recording studio, aka living room, is not the ideal place to mix. This is something that I will need to work on in the future.
> I went full on with the hybrid type score. Just kind of wanted to get it out of my system. It was fun, but I still want to do more with traditional orchestration.



Sounds good, I like it. I think with some better or more sounds effects it would be well rounded or complementary to it. Not much to critique about... maybe I have to listen to it a couple more times.

On the hybrid type score: Normally I'm not into epic stuff, but I guess one has to use what is most appropriate to the trailer. I would love to write a chopin-esque movement, but it just doesn't fit the trailer. It's action, so it needs action I figured. It's not what I would love to do, but what has to be done to it. But as I said: the editing of a trailer makes just as much difference as the music, since it can build up tension and release in the right or wrong way, it's why I had to switch quickly in certain parts without losing the action and tension. That's how I approached it.  




Darthmorphling @ Sun May 19 said:


> Here is a bonus video. I got my first scoring gig. The client was quite picky and even had a temp track that he wanted me emulate. Eight year olds can be quite picky.
> 
> I give you my 2nd grader's short film Piranha.
> 
> Don



Awww, that is so sweet! :D


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## Sasje (May 20, 2013)

*Re: Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project #2*



blender505 @ Wed May 01 said:


> Actually, I'm not sure I'm happy with the way it came out, but I'm not sure how I should go about changing it. It doesn't really sound like trailer music to me, but that might be because I wrote it.
> 
> I'm curious as to how the mix sounds. It sounds decent to me, but I wrote it and I'm using headphones. Plus, I'm not sure I know what to listen for.



Sounds very good to me Blender. The orchestration is beautiful  But I think I would have used a bit more action in the music in certain places, as it seems to drift a bit asynchronous along the trailer as it progresses, like it starts to lead a life of it's own? But that's my humble opinion, it's easy for me to say, I just leaned my arm on a couple of random keys and called it a day. :D I'm light years away from being an expert, so please don't listen me. :wink:


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## Darthmorphling (May 20, 2013)

Sasje @ Mon May 20 said:


> Darthmorphling @ Sun May 19 said:
> 
> 
> > Overall, I am not completely happy with the way this turned out, but neither am I unhappy with it. I did learn a lot about how to use Reaper. I also learned that my recording studio, aka living room, is not the ideal place to mix. This is something that I will need to work on in the future.
> ...



Before I started the composing process I watched Daniel James walkthrough of ProjectAlpha. What he recommended was lots of layering. I think that's where I could have done better. I had some layered sounds but I started getting clipping. Then when I lowered the volume it lessened the impact of the hits. Some better mixing and I think it would have been better. 

What I found hard was creating a theme. Everything I came up with was too long for each of the segments. The short motif I came up with took me the longest out of the whole piece. Writing music to video seems to be a lot more difficult.



> Darthmorphling @ Sun May 19 said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a bonus video. I got my first scoring gig. The client was quite picky and even had a temp track that he wanted me emulate. Eight year olds can be quite picky.
> ...



He had fun making it and did a lot of the work himself. I showed him how to create a slide show and he placed his pictures in there. I simply helped with timing the transitions. And that was really just to make the music fit. It took quite a few takes to get the right burp. He has this awesome ability to burp on command. I have never been able to do that.


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## Darthmorphling (May 20, 2013)

joshua @ Mon May 20 said:


> Some suggestion for the requirement for a woodwinds piece
> 
> - The theme must be played by woodwinds
> - Strings can be used as non-main instruments. (Do we want to list other allowed instruments?)
> ...



How about a requirement that at least two separate woodwind parts need to be in the piece?


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## joshua (May 21, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Mon May 20 said:


> How about a requirement that at least two separate woodwind parts need to be in the piece?


Hah, I don't think anyone will do it (one part for all woodwinds) because it will bore the heck out of us. Prove me wrong, though.


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## Darthmorphling (May 21, 2013)

So how about just composing a piece that highlights the woodwinds as the main focus. Other instruments can be used, but only as accompaniment. There should be some sort of counterpoint present in the piece as well.

Also, do you all want to start it this weekend or wait until the current project is done?


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## joshua (May 21, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Tue May 21 said:


> So how about just composing a piece that highlights the woodwinds as the main focus. Other instruments can be used, but only as accompaniment. There should be some sort of counterpoint present in the piece as well.
> 
> Also, do you all want to start it this weekend or wait until the current project is done?



Hmm, actually let's do woodwinds and brass (wind ensemble). No other instruments. Limitation will push our ability. We could always do all instruments in different exercises.

We could start this coming weekend.


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## Darthmorphling (May 22, 2013)

Are you meaning this type of ensemble?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_band

This shows the use of percussion as well.

I'm up for it, if others want it as well. Definately putting me out of my comfort zone though :D 

Don


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## joshua (May 22, 2013)

I omitted percussion because I wanna make things more difficult, ha..ha! But I'm OK if you wanna include percussion.


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## dimtsak (May 22, 2013)

Ok, here is my own take.

I 'll comment the other videos after the deadline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOBqx7Ct0d4


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## Sasje (May 22, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Mon May 20 said:


> What I found hard was creating a theme. Everything I came up with was too long for each of the segments. The short motif I came up with took me the longest out of the whole piece. Writing music to video seems to be a lot more difficult.



Yes. I think it's due to the editing of the trailer itself. It's too fast paced at the start, and goes into action way too fast to build up something without compromising. The video itself doesn't build anything, so the music will reflect that imho. There no time to really write a proper theme to it because of the quick sequence of seemingly random scenes. Hence my frantic attempt to compensate, so that means less intricacies and me sticking to rudimentary percussion, strings, brass and a simple pad. I'm no expert, it's my first trailer, but this is how I see it.  would love to hear the take of a seasoned composer on this.


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## blender505 (May 22, 2013)

dimtsak @ Wed May 22 said:


> Ok, here is my own take.
> 
> I 'll comment the other videos after the deadline.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOBqx7Ct0d4


I really like it! I feel that the chord progression in the more intense section was somehow happy and whimsical for the scenes. But that was actually one of the things I had trouble with in my version.


Maybe to make it more interesting, we compose to an image (sort of like that competition Strezov Sampling has). And I would rather have percussion.


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## Darthmorphling (May 22, 2013)

dimtsak @ Wed May 22 said:


> Ok, here is my own take.
> 
> I 'll comment the other videos after the deadline.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOBqx7Ct0d4



I really like the build up with the piano. It does seem like the ostinato has a major feel to it, but it seems to fit the piece.

Once I get report cards finished I will go and comment on each of the submitted pieces.

I also updated the first post with your submission.


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## Darthmorphling (May 22, 2013)

blender505 @ Wed May 22 said:


> Maybe to make it more interesting, we compose to an image (sort of like that competition Strezov Sampling has). And I would rather have percussion.



Ok it is looking like Project 3 will be a wind ensemble. The wikipedia entry has that with woodwinds, brass, and percussion. If you would like to leave the percussion out that would be fine.

Do we want to have a specific motif that we orchestrate, or do we want to leave it open?


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## blender505 (May 22, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Wed May 22 said:


> blender505 @ Wed May 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe to make it more interesting, we compose to an image (sort of like that competition Strezov Sampling has). And I would rather have percussion.
> ...


I personally would like to have at least light percussion, but if everyone's set on not having it, it's not really up to me anyways.

I think we should have at least some common ground (other that things we can't do) to keep it interesting. Either a motif or an image (or something else entirely).


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## Darthmorphling (May 22, 2013)

Lets do another motif. I have one, but would like to open it up for someone else to do it if they would like.

I think percussion is good to have.


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## dimtsak (May 29, 2013)

My reviews as i promised.

Sasje:

This is more a percussion track rather than a music one.
So the drums are well played and chosen.
Much work seems to have been done for the sound effects.
The slow string section is a good idea, and i think you had to give more emphasis in mixing.
As far as mixing, it seems to have a lot of compression or limiting.
It's a pity that the quality of your sound and video is not good,
and it makes it more noisy.
Definetely an anxious track! (for an anxious trailer)


Bender:

The most professional sound comparing to all the others.
The quality of your sounds (and the mixing) seems right away.
That beginning piano gives a nice feeling right at the start.
The thing that i didn't like is some changes of keys and chords.
This part from 0:31 - 0:37 sounds a bit abstracting.
Well done in general, very nice work.



Dartmorphling:

I liked your ideas.
That strings parts are good.
But i think you need more layers at your arrangement.
It sounds empty and uncomfortable in some parts.
As it is the last part with the drums, maybe because of the not perfect midi editing.
For the mixing, i think the sound effects are loud.
(Nice strings sound by the way.)


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## joshua (May 30, 2013)

Sorry, but I couldn't finish this one. :( 20 seconds was all I got.


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