# Breath control



## Jacques Heine (Nov 30, 2018)

Hi,

I recently discovered the existence of "breath controllers" in a lot of youtube videos where musicians play midi keyboard while blasting out their lungs in a plastic pipe.
So I was wondering :
is it necessary, when using a breath controller, to do it always in conjunction with a keyboard or other midi instrument or can we:
- listen to a midi music played, for example, in a track in a DAW, let's say track (1)
- simultaneously "sing" inside a breath controller the same music with all the necessary feelings and effects possible, 
the effects (expression, velocity, attack ...) of this "song" beeing recorded in another DAW midi track (2) in the form of CC commands
- apply these effects in track (2) to track (1) producing in a new track (3) the humanized version of track (1)
Has someone experience in this field ?
Thanks in advance


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## Eloy (Nov 30, 2018)

Jacques, 

Breath controllers are fantastic. They are great for live (frees up your hand and feet) and studio performance. Instruments sound real/natural - as you run out of breath just like a performer of the instrument would. After going through many brands (some have single control - some have dual controls - bite) the best is Hornberg. https://www.hornberg-research.de/index.php/en/ I know it costs a fortune but it controls multiple perimeters at the same time that others do not. And it’s ease of use is unmatched - better to get the best than waste time. Once you start using a great breath controller .... it is hard to go back to a mod wheel,foot controller, drawing midi data, etc.....
Thank you


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## Phillip Dixon (Nov 30, 2018)

TC bbc 2 less than 200 euro..controls 4 parameters great bit of kit


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## reddognoyz (Nov 30, 2018)

There is a learning curve if you don't play any winds. I don't really but played around with penny whistles etc., so I suppose I had a tiny jump start. At any rate I can't recommend them enough. I use the TC breath controller mentioned above and it A) is waaaay faster than a mod wheels so doing string swells etc. are just better, B) frees up a whole entire other hand for playing.

While a real wind/brass player can probably use it to double/triple tongue and shape attacks,( I can't do either), anyone who's spent a week or so will find it great for shaping most any sort of material. I use it for all sorts of pads and string sustains and rely on velocity to control the attack in my brass instruments. If you combine a wind controller with any modeled instruments, you'll find you can get a very nuanced and human performance. I find it easy to do lines with the sample modeling winds that have real personality and it's super nimble. I still rely on some "baked in" libraries for orchestral phrasing, but it's been a great addition to my arsenal and you can do things with it you simply can't with a mod wheel.

my 2¢


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## Gerbil (Nov 30, 2018)

Phillip Dixon said:


> TC bbc 2 less than 200 euro..controls 4 parameters great bit of kit



I use a BC3a but was thinking of getting one of these to replace it because of the extra control. Is it just as responsive do you know?


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## gamma-ut (Nov 30, 2018)

Gerbil said:


> I use a BC3a but was thinking of getting one of these to replace it because of the extra control. Is it just as responsive do you know?



The TC lets you adjust the response curve using a little app, so it gives you a lot more control than the Yamaha, which just has the gain and offset knobs. I've got an old BC3 that's plugged in to a Kurzweil and the TC with the tilt sensors for the computer/DAW but I've never directly compared them for absolute sensitivity to be honest. I may have to try later.


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## Phillip Dixon (Nov 30, 2018)

i could'ent say as this is the first and only one i 've used ..but it is very responsive and adjustable via the software..takes a fair bit of getting use to ,nodding up and down.
tilting left and right , my neighbour saw me through the window and thought i was 
having a stroke....


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## Ale8ory (Nov 30, 2018)

+1 on the TEContol products. I use mine on everything and they are a quality company with excellent support.


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## Jacques Heine (Nov 30, 2018)

Thank you for all your comments.
I am convinced that BC is a wonderfull tool but my question relates to the deferred use of it.
I wished beeing confirmed what I recently read in a blog: (with his permition)
_
https://www.bennysutton.com/blog/MIDI-Breath-Controllers.aspx_

_You can use the BC to add expression as you play in real time or *go back to already recorded tracks and add expression RETROSPECTIVELY*_


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## Gerbil (Nov 30, 2018)

That's not a problem. Not half as fun as doing it whilst playing though.


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## Jacques Heine (Nov 30, 2018)

Gerbil said:


> That's not a problem. Not half as fun as doing it whilst playing though.


Sure. I wish I could play piano


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## LamaRose (Nov 30, 2018)

Thanks for the heads-up regarding TEControl.


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## gamma-ut (Nov 30, 2018)

Jacques Heine said:


> _You can use the BC to add expression as you play in real time or *go back to already recorded tracks and add expression RETROSPECTIVELY*_



I've done this, sometimes for percussion loops - putting little bursts of air slightly ahead of certain hits to handle little volume/filter changes. It's much easier to blow rhythmically in this way than to use a mod-wheel. 

As long as the DAW can handle the punching-in of that data cleanly you're OK. Where it can go a bit wrong is if the DAW mixes CC data from two separate takes. You'll get what sounds like things cutting out because you'll get CC2 levels of >100 interleaved with much lower levels. It's less noticeable when that happens with mod-wheel changes because you don't get the large, rapid changes that are possible with a breath controller. But you can always erase CC2 and do it again if that happens.


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## Jacques Heine (Nov 30, 2018)

gamma-ut said:


> I've done this, sometimes for percussion loops - putting little bursts of air slightly ahead of certain hits to handle little volume/filter changes. It's much easier to blow rhythmically in this way than to use a mod-wheel.
> 
> As long as the DAW can handle the punching-in of that data cleanly you're OK. Where it can go a bit wrong is if the DAW mixes CC data from two separate takes. You'll get what sounds like things cutting out because you'll get CC2 levels of >100 interleaved with much lower levels. It's less noticeable when that happens with mod-wheel changes because you don't get the large, rapid changes that are possible with a breath controller. But you can always erase CC2 and do it again if that happens.


Thank you for these technical details


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## cqd (Dec 1, 2018)

Depending on where you're based(I'm in Ireland), I've a TEC breath controller that I'm going to sell at some stage..just used a few times..(Wasn't for me..20 years smoking, the lungs are ruined..)..PM if you're interested..


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## Jacques Heine (Dec 1, 2018)

cqd said:


> Depending on where you're based(I'm in Ireland), I've a TEC breath controller that I'm going to sell at some stage..just used a few times..(Wasn't for me..20 years smoking, the lungs are ruined..)..PM if you're interested..


It's premature, just discovering Daws and all that stuff, I'm still facing too many questions ...but thanks for the offer (55 years smoking, I stopped using lungs ...)


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## Phillip Dixon (Dec 1, 2018)

i had trouble at first , until i realised that you can adjust the air flow via a small screw
(valve) on side of device .and change sensetivity in the app..you dont need to be louis armstrong......


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## Jacques Heine (Dec 2, 2018)

Phillip Dixon said:


> i had trouble at first , until i realised that you can adjust the air flow via a small screw
> (valve) on side of device .and change sensetivity in the app..you dont need to be louis armstrong......


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## Divico (Dec 2, 2018)

May I ask owners of the new TEC how often do you use the additional controls like tilt etc?
Thinking about getting one. As a wind player I hope to speed up stuff and improve my expression.


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## Phillip Dixon (Dec 2, 2018)

at present iv'e only used breath for volume
and bite i set for vibrato i'am not a wind player ! i will try useing the nod and tilt function ,,but i would think having all 4 operating is more for live performance
and i 'am not great at multi tasking.....


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## Divico (Dec 2, 2018)

Phillip Dixon said:


> at present iv'e only used breath for volume
> and bite i set for vibrato i'am not a wind player ! i will try useing the nod and tilt function ,,but i would think having all 4 operating is more for live performance
> and i 'am not great at multi tasking.....


So I assume using breath and bite simultaniously works good ?
Also does anyone know how well this works wirh libraries like HS or HB inspite of samplemodeling ones ?


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## Phillip Dixon (Dec 2, 2018)

yes breath and bite together work great..so do all 4 together set to what ever parameters you wish to use...i'am just not practiced enough in this... but breath with bite works wonders on my spitfire libraies.
for me a lot more intuative than useing mod wheel..... i need to work on my spelling as well


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## rdieters (Dec 3, 2018)

Gerbil said:


> I use a BC3a but was thinking of getting one of these to replace it because of the extra control. Is it just as responsive do you know?



It is very responsive, much faster than any pedal or modwheel. There is also a breath controller model with analog out that is signal compatible with Yamaha's BC3...

http://www.tecontrol.se/products/analog-breath-controller


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