# 50% off Berlin Series



## coprhead6 (Nov 22, 2020)

Just saw this banner pop up on the forum!!
*Sweating intensifies*


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## José Herring (Nov 22, 2020)

Oh man! I have just one more purchase on my budget this year and these companies aren't making it any easier on me.


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## lettucehat (Nov 22, 2020)

lol of course. The most disruptive thing that could have happened to my BF plans.


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## purple (Nov 22, 2020)

I wish this came with them releasing them all a-la-carte!


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## lettucehat (Nov 22, 2020)

Yeah I feel like a la cartes will never budge, but I'm not complaining. Such a great move to provide those.


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## constaneum (Nov 22, 2020)

awww....only the Berlin series? the rest not on sale ? sad.


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## lgmcben (Nov 22, 2020)

No


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## emilio_n (Nov 22, 2020)

I can't see the offer on their webpage... Maybe not available yet?


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## Mike Fox (Nov 22, 2020)

Well, fu$! me.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Nov 22, 2020)

constaneum said:


> awww....only the Berlin series? the rest not on sale ? sad.


They are so rare with sales and even BF sales and yet putting their biggest flagship series on a massive sale is just.. sad?


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## dzilizzi (Nov 22, 2020)

Well, shoot. I did say if the Strings went on sale I would buy them. This is going to be an expensive BF this year.....


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 22, 2020)

Well that’s put the cat amongst the pigeons....


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## Frederick (Nov 22, 2020)

So today could be the day that I'll end up buying Berlin Strings main library and the remainder of the VSL BBO Bundle for "only" 1300 Euro in total (VAT included).


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## Mike Fox (Nov 22, 2020)

My only hang up is how CPU hungry the strings are, or at least i'm told.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 22, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> My only hang up is how CPU hungry the strings are, or at least i'm told.


Extremely so, but hopefully when they move them to Sine it will be less of an issue.

Their capsule multis don't make things easy resource-wise


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## dzilizzi (Nov 22, 2020)

I'd like the Kontakt versions as I'm still having some issues with the Sine player. But at least it isn't crashing anymore. I'm really hoping they get it to work in ProTools soon also. Though I haven't really tried the workaround with Patchwork, since that is why I bought it. (Not Sine specifically, just vst only plugins)


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## Bman70 (Nov 22, 2020)

So Berlin Strings is normally €1680? I clicked on the ad to my right and it's €840...


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## Mike Fox (Nov 22, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> So Berlin Strings is normally €1680? I clicked on the ad to my right and it's €840...


No. I'm just assuming they haven't updated the price.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 22, 2020)

Is there any real need for the First Chairs? I got the Special Bows in the NI sale. Not sure I will need FX either. I also have the runs and sphere from the first NI sale.


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## lgmcben (Nov 22, 2020)

If I don't use a full template. Just legato and few(one or two) shorts/longs articulations. Will 32gb ram be enough to run Berlin Series? (strings, brass, woodwinds, percussions)


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## Mike Fox (Nov 22, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> If I don't use a full template. Just legato and few(one or two) shorts/longs articulations. Will 32gb ram be enough to run Berlin Series? (strings, brass, woodwinds, percussions)


You'll probably need about 32gb per patch.


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## ProfoundSilence (Nov 22, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> If I don't use a full template. Just legato and few(one or two) shorts/longs articulations. Will 32gb ram be enough to run Berlin Series? (strings, brass, woodwinds, percussions)


I think so. 

especially if you use the bww legacy


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## dzilizzi (Nov 22, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> If I don't use a full template. Just legato and few(one or two) shorts/longs articulations. Will 32gb ram be enough to run Berlin Series? (strings, brass, woodwinds, percussions)


Based on the winds, if you aren't using a full template, you should be okay with 32GB RAM.


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## Kurosawa (Nov 22, 2020)

Guys, look at the different colors of the boxes!!! It will be the whole berlin orchestra range being on sale!!!


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## lgmcben (Nov 22, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Based on the winds, if you aren't using a full template, you should be okay with 32GB RAM.





ProfoundSilence said:


> I think so.
> 
> especially if you use the bww legacy


Thanks. But legacy? The one that's available for buying (and is 50% off) is the revive, right?


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## dzilizzi (Nov 22, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> Thanks. But legacy? The one that's available for buying (and is 50% off) is the revive, right?


You get legacy with the winds.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 22, 2020)

Kurosawa said:


> Guys, look at the different colors of the boxes!!! It will be the whole berlin orchestra range being on sale!!!


Yes, but I only want Strings. Not sure why.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 22, 2020)

hbjdk said:


> I‘m pretty sure it’s the main libs only, so no First Chair etc.


You're right. I only saw the tiny ad on my phone. I just saw the bigger one and it is main collections only. Makes it much easier.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 22, 2020)

hbjdk said:


> I‘m pretty sure it’s the main libs only, so no First Chair etc.


Yeah, that's what the banner says.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 22, 2020)

So how heavy hitting can Berlin Brass get? Can it get into the FFF territory?


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## dzilizzi (Nov 22, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> So how heavy hitting can Berlin Brass get? Can it get into the FFF territory?


Not sure the go that loud. That is what Ark 1 is for.


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## Frederick (Nov 22, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> You get legacy with the winds.


And that's the last push I needed for the Berlin Woodwinds. Thank you! 

I intend to use the Berlin strings and woodwinds with my CineSamples orchestra. I've been told they blend well together. IMHO the CineSamples strings and woodwinds are fine, but not great like CinePerc, CinePiano, CineBrass and CineHarps.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 23, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> So how heavy hitting can Berlin Brass get? Can it get into the FFF territory?


nope i'd get JXL if you want to do that.

it sound sounds good and gets to ~ff (not on legato) but it's definitely more reserved.


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## constaneum (Nov 23, 2020)

DarkestShadow said:


> They are so rare with sales and even BF sales and yet putting their biggest flagship series on a massive sale is just.. sad?



for me, it is. ahha coz i've been eyeing on JXL Brass for a while.


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## CT (Nov 23, 2020)

Are the woodwind soloists considered part of the Berlin series/are they as resource hungry as the rest? Oh never mind, I see that the banner says, "main collections" so I'm guessing they won't be included.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 23, 2020)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> nope i'd get JXL if you want to do that.
> 
> it sound sounds good and gets to ~ff (not on legato) but it's definitely more reserved.


Thanks.

Between Cinebrass Pro and Talos, I think i'm covered in the FFF territory anyway.


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## Artemi (Nov 23, 2020)

can someone comment on Berlin WW inconsistency?
what's so different between patches, volume, articulations, something else?


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## Bluemount Score (Nov 23, 2020)

Wow, I think an OT sale like that didn't happen before??
Still can't see the updated prices though


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## dzilizzi (Nov 23, 2020)

Bluemount Score said:


> Wow, I think an OT sale like that didn't happen before??
> Still can't see the updated prices though


Two years ago it was only 40% off. This is good.


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## Bluemount Score (Nov 23, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Two years ago it was only 40% off. This is good.


No, it is not good


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## Mike Fox (Nov 23, 2020)

Love those "exposed violins". Excellent stuff!


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## Mike Fox (Nov 23, 2020)

@ChrisSiuMusic 

Is Berlin strings still your go-to?


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## muziksculp (Nov 23, 2020)

I'm hoping to see OT port their Berlin Orchestral Series Libraries to their SINE player format. The sooner they can move them over the better.

I have already invested quite a bit into their Berlin series, but I really don't like using CAPSULE/Kontakt. Would love to use these libraries in SINE.


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## Chungus (Nov 23, 2020)

Oh my god, yes. I've been waiting two years on this! Yet, I'm not seeing anything on OT's site, not even an announcement. I sure hope they haven't changed their mind last minute.


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## emilio_n (Nov 23, 2020)

I was really thinking to get Afflatus or LA Sessions. 
Now with this offer I think I will invest in Berlin. I have already the Special Bows, Modus and the two first Arks. Bet all in on Tedex!

My only concern is that Berlin series are still top libraries or if is better lose this great offer and wait what SF will do with AR1... Even with 50% they are quite expensive.


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## Instrugramm (Nov 23, 2020)

Damn it... I got Afflatus yesterday. This is ruining me.


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## purple (Nov 23, 2020)

Well it's only 11:00 A.M. in Berlin. I'd expect an official acknowledgement at some point in the next few hours 
(like when I'm going to bed)


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## Bluemount Score (Nov 23, 2020)

Chungus said:


> Oh my god, yes. I've been waiting two years on this! Yet, I'm not seeing anything on OT's site, not even an announcement. I sure hope they haven't changed their mind last minute.


I still saw the announcement here just now...


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## Frederick (Nov 23, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> I was really thinking to get Afflatus or LA Sessions.
> Now with this offer I think I will invest in Berlin. I have already the Special Bows, Modus and the two first Arks. Bet all in on Tedex!
> 
> My only concern is that Berlin series are still top libraries or if is better lose this great offer and wait what SF will do with AR1... Even with 50% they are quite expensive.


I fear the prices of the modular AR1 stuff (sections, solo instruments, many articulations) are going to be similar to the berlin prices without discount. I believe this will be the case, because the AR1 Foundations and Selections will probably total around 750 Euro at introduction prices and they are just a fraction of the content. How long will we have to wait till we can buy the AR1 modular orchestra at the current Berlin sale prices?


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## MaxOctane (Nov 23, 2020)

Instrugramm said:


> Damn it... I got Afflatus yesterday. This is ruining me.



The only winning move is not to play.

Or to buy everything.

Either works.


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## AudioLoco (Nov 23, 2020)

There has never been a group of people who's plans are more disrupted then after this announcement.


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## Chris Wagner (Nov 23, 2020)

AudioLoco said:


> There has never been a group of people who's plans are more disrupted then after this announcement.


Not funny  !


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## Paul Jelfs (Nov 23, 2020)

These libraries are great, but in ALL seriousness, if you can't afford it, then try and resist - All of these will be going to be SINE and should have another chance at 50% off ! 

This Black Friday feels like the most intense ever ? LIKE EVER ! ?


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## Chungus (Nov 23, 2020)

Bluemount Score said:


> I still saw the announcement here just now...


I'm not talking about VIC banners, I'm talking about OT's own site. There's no indication of any sale there.


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## Christopher Rocky (Nov 23, 2020)

holy cow, been waiting for berlin sale for a few years, but with afflatus as well... my god, was waiting for the Edwardo Tarilonte this weekend. nov/dec is just BRUTAL FOR GAS


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## Christopher Rocky (Nov 23, 2020)

Paul Jelfs said:


> These libraries are great, but in ALL seriousness, if you can't afford it, then try and resist - All of these will be going to be SINE and should have another chance at 50% off !
> 
> This Black Friday feels like the most intense ever ? LIKE EVER ! ?


the biggest question is will the next sale probably be only on sine? so if you want kontakt as well (assuming free crossover) you gotta get it now


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## Bluemount Score (Nov 23, 2020)

Chungus said:


> I'm not talking about VIC banners, I'm talking about OT's own site. There's no indication of any sale there.


Yes I know, however I'm sure it will change very soon... that's not a mistake that just happens like that


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## Marsen (Nov 23, 2020)

Oh, oh....


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## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 23, 2020)

No embertone Solo Strings for me this year then...
...and no food.


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## Rob Burnley (Nov 23, 2020)

So quick question - is there a discount for the other parts if you have a few already?

If I bought Woodwinds Soloists I + Soloists II, would there be money off to complete the set later on?


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## Manaberry (Nov 23, 2020)

Well well well... Here we go again!


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## Bman70 (Nov 23, 2020)

I just laugh at myself when I get a VI-Control-induced craving to buy some Berlin stuff. I mean wtf, $400 for some more strings? Yes I know Guy Michelmore has every library ever made. But he's actually getting hired by film studios. I'm writing scores to 15-second videos of mountain biking


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## Yogevs (Nov 23, 2020)

Still too expensive for me :(


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## easyrider (Nov 23, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> I just laugh at myself when I get a VI-Control-induced craving to buy some Berlin stuff. I mean wtf, $400 for some more strings? Yes I know Guy Michelmore has every library ever made. But he's actually getting hired by film studios. I'm writing scores to 15-second videos of mountain biking


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## Zero&One (Nov 23, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> I'm writing scores to 15-second videos of mountain biking



Just think how much better they'll look! Even the bikers will smile in the video when they hear those legatos.
I actually vomit now when I hear anything under $600. Just doesn't cut it.

I do like OT btw


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## FrozenIcicle (Nov 23, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> Still too expensive for me :(


It is and I bought Berlin Brass at its intro price and if I was to buy it now at 50% I would definitely question it. 

One thing to note, these would probably be the last big sale on the series before OT ports them into Sine like they did with the Ark series. Makes me consider it even more but they are still so expensive and there's more modern libraries out there for a cheaper price!


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## matthieuL (Nov 23, 2020)

Concerning Berlin Strings, all articulations sound good, but the legato is pretty unusable. So ugly. Am I the only one ?
I'm hoping the SINE legato could fix this.


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 23, 2020)

No, no, no, no NO OT! What the hell am I going to say to VSL to explain I'm spending my money at your place?


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## muziksculp (Nov 23, 2020)

matthieuL said:


> but the legato is pretty unusable. So ugly. Am I the only one ?



I wouldn't go that far. The legato is pretty good, but surely, SINE will offer further improvements to the legato. That's one of the reasons I'm dreaming of the Berlin Series in SINE format.  

By the way, the CAPSULE system's morphing (X-Fading) between multi-articulations is a great feature, I just don't care much for the CAPSULE User Interface, and the clunky way, with all the tiny fonts, and icons in Kontakt. Not what I call a comfortable, and enjoyable GUI to work with (even my eyes ache after using CAPSULE for a little while). 

SINE is going to be so much better of an experience, plus.. SINE will be so much more efficient on RAM usage, so more Instruments can be loaded compared to Kontakt, plus it will offer more features that they can add as needed, since it is their player, it will keep improving.


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## Christopher Rocky (Nov 23, 2020)

FrozenIcicle said:


> ....and there's more modern libraries out there for a cheaper price!


I'm interested in what modern libs you are comparing too?
I'm on the fence too, I was going to get BWW but now i'm questioning it as I already have SSW and SSSW so i dont 'need' it perse, I just read the soloists 1 and 2 only have one dynamic layer, so now i'm thinking the fluffy audio solo winds would be a better choice for isolated solo lines.


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## Kurosawa (Nov 23, 2020)

Christopher Rocky said:


> I'm interested in what modern libs you are comparing too?
> I'm on the fence too, I was going to get BWW but now i'm questioning it as I already have SSW and SSSW so i dont 'need' it perse, I just read the soloists 1 and 2 only have one dynamic layer, so now i'm thinking the fluffy audio solo winds would be a better choice for isolated solo lines.


The one dynamic is a choice in this case. Soloists 1 has the best sounding solo oboe and solo english horn in my opinion.


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## FrozenIcicle (Nov 23, 2020)

Christopher Rocky said:


> I'm interested in what modern libs you are comparing too?
> I'm on the fence too, I was going to get BWW but now i'm questioning it as I already have SSW and SSSW so i dont 'need' it perse, I just read the soloists 1 and 2 only have one dynamic layer, so now i'm thinking the fluffy audio solo winds would be a better choice for isolated solo lines.


was referring to mainly the strings tbh like css, sss, etc


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## Saya (Nov 23, 2020)

My dream comes true


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## Zero&One (Nov 23, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> SINE is going to be so much better of an experience, plus.. SINE will be so much more efficient on RAM usage, so more Instruments can be loaded compared to Kontakt, plus it will offer more features that they can add as needed, since it is their player, it will keep improving.



I'm really trying to like SINE, really am. But it's just too much clicking for me. Maybe it's me and I'm missing some setup options?

GUI browser is cluttered with huge icons, no point. Can I turn them off? If I want Vivid keys, that's 7 scrolls just to get there!

When I open SINE to edit a patch, it's collapsed again. So I have to click click click just to get to where I was. Kontakt remembers your last browse location. 

Load Dagu single hits. It's just named as Gun 1. I've literally no idea what library it's from using the GUI if I open it up the next day for example?


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## Adam Takacs (Nov 23, 2020)

online:






ORCHESTRAL TOOLS


Virtual instruments for your music productions - Recorded in the world's finest studios




www.orchestraltools.com


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## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 23, 2020)

tadam said:


> online


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## Christopher Rocky (Nov 23, 2020)

Well it makes it a lot easier to decide if its not the expansions as well lol


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## daan1412 (Nov 23, 2020)

And I thought this BF season can't get more complicated...


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## Andrajas (Nov 23, 2020)

oh man....what to do!?!?


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## muziksculp (Nov 23, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> I'm really trying to like SINE, really am. But it's just too much clicking for me. Maybe it's me and I'm missing some setup options?
> 
> GUI browser is cluttered with huge icons, no point. Can I turn them off? If I want Vivid keys, that's 7 scrolls just to get there!
> 
> ...



Two Clicks and I had a Vivid Keys Piano Loaded in SINE. 

Icons are huge ? I'm guessing you mean the library Icons, well.. they are clear, and very visible. I have no issue with that, on the contrary, the micro fonts, and icons in Kontakt are really bothersome. 

Regarding SINE being collapsed every time you need to open it, I think that's something they can surely improve. It would be nice if it remembers the last edit step before closing its window.


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## abrasounds (Nov 23, 2020)

And there goes my BF budget...

Anyway, does anyone have both Berlin Strings and the new Nashville Scoring Strings from Audio Ollie and could shed some light into how they compare? I've always had BS on my wishlist and now might be the time to get it, but I was impressed by NSS as well and... well, even with 50% off on BS, NSS would be cheaper.


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## Markrs (Nov 23, 2020)

Comes to €1392 + VAT for the full suite, that is definitely out of my league.


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## Ihnoc (Nov 23, 2020)

Already own Brass and some expansions for other things. Percussion and Strings were high on my list. I love the brass and other bits so much that I might just plunge and get it all - Orchestral Tools just gets how I want to work. Really want to see SINE for mic mix downs...!


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## Beans (Nov 23, 2020)

Interesting. I've been looking at Berlin WW all year, but I've been a bit afraid of RAM consumption. It's strange to feel anemic with 64 GB. Sometimes, my brain is still in the late '90s when 256 MB was absurd.


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## Zero&One (Nov 23, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Two Clicks and I had a Vivid Keys Piano Loaded in SINE.



7 mouse scrolls, as it’s at the bottom of my list. If those icons were not there the it would be 2 tops. They look nice I agree, but there’s no point of them other than clutter and mouse scrolls.
Even the ability to re-order them would be better.

Add in the Berlin series, then there’s more lol
It’s a nice GUI but that’s it for me. Seems the way these days sadly.

Added an example of what would certainly be a nicer option for me at least. 






rather than


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## Geomir (Nov 23, 2020)

Markrs said:


> Comes to €1392 + VAT for the full suite, that is definitely out of my league.


I am also trying to calculate this, just to laugh at myself since I cannot afford it, but:

- I cannot add multiple items in my cart.
- It asks for ALL the details of my credit card BEFORE I can see the final price with the TAX included. And I DO NOT want to press "next" and be charged for 500 EUR by accident!


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## muziksculp (Nov 23, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> 7 mouse scrolls, as it’s at the bottom of my list. If those icons were not there the it would be 2 tops. They look nice I agree, but there’s no point of them other than clutter and mouse scrolls.
> Even the ability to re-order them would be better.
> 
> Add in the Berlin series, then there’s more lol
> ...



I see what you mean, Yeah scrolling down with the mouse is not fun, they need to improve this detail. You can email them with suggestions to improve the GUI, they are very responsive, and professional, and are open to customer requests/suggestions.


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## Markrs (Nov 23, 2020)

Geomir said:


> I am also trying to calculate this, just to laugh at myself since I cannot afford it, but:
> 
> - I cannot add multiple items in my cart.
> - It asks for ALL the details of my credit card BEFORE I can see the final price with the TAX included. And I DO NOT want to press "next" and be charged for 500 EUR by accident!


European tax is normally 20% I believe so €278.4 tax = €1670.4 total


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## Frederick (Nov 23, 2020)

Geomir said:


> I am also trying to calculate this, just to laugh at myself since I cannot afford it, but:
> 
> - I cannot add multiple items in my cart.
> - It asks for ALL the details of my credit card BEFORE I can see the final price with the TAX included. And I DO NOT want to press "next" and be charged for 500 EUR by accident!


You can press next without risk, I think you'll get a summery first.


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## Geomir (Nov 23, 2020)

Markrs said:


> European tax is normally 20% I believe so €278.4 tax = €1670.4 total


20%? This is BIG!


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## ProfoundSilence (Nov 23, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> So how heavy hitting can Berlin Brass get? Can it get into the FFF territory?


no

it's a strong forte on shorts/marcato ect, sustains/legato are more like a mf


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## ProfoundSilence (Nov 23, 2020)

Markrs said:


> European tax is normally 20% I believe so €278.4 tax = €1670.4 total


*laughs in libertarian*

you're paying for healthcare or something


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## Kurosawa (Nov 23, 2020)

It's only 16% at the moment.


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## Adam Takacs (Nov 23, 2020)

Geomir said:


> 20%? This is BIG!


I wish we had 20% VAT... (27% here in Hungary. Plus HUF is extremely weak against EURO so these collections are still expensive even with BF prices)


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## stargazer (Nov 23, 2020)

Markrs said:


> European tax is normally 20% I believe so €278.4 tax = €1670.4 total


OT is based in Germany, so VAT should be 19%.
In Sweden we’re at 25% 😱, UK 20% I believe


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## Geomir (Nov 23, 2020)

tadam said:


> I wish we had 20% VAT... (27% here in Hungary. Plus HUF is extremely weak against EURO so these collections are still expensive even with BF prices)


I understand you 100%! And believe me I feel the same (even if EURO is stronger than HUF)!


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## daan1412 (Nov 23, 2020)

Markrs said:


> Comes to €1392 + VAT for the full suite, that is definitely out of my league.


Ah, man. You're right. I forgot they list stuff VAT excluded. In this case it's extremely expensive even as a -50% offer, if you ask me. Too bad there's no bundle discount. It's tempting, but I would have to blow my whole budget and there is other stuff I wanted to get...


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## Manaberry (Nov 23, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> 7 mouse scrolls, as it’s at the bottom of my list. If those icons were not there the it would be 2 tops. They look nice I agree, but there’s no point of them other than clutter and mouse scrolls.
> Even the ability to re-order them would be better.
> 
> Add in the Berlin series, then there’s more lol
> ...



I've sent some feedback regarding SINE a couple of months ago with that request. Tobias told me it was definitely a great idea so, it should be in the pipe already.


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## Kurosawa (Nov 23, 2020)

stargazer said:


> OT is based in Germany, so VAT should be 19%.
> In Sweden we’re at 25% 😱, UK 20% I believe


We're at 16% in Germany at the moment.


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## Breaker (Nov 23, 2020)

Geomir said:


> 20%? This is BIG!


If you live in EU and buy from EU you pay the VAT of your country of residence (I guess that's 23% in Greece).


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## Markrs (Nov 23, 2020)

Geomir said:


> 20%? This is BIG!


I'm UK so I might be wrong, but UK tax is 20% and Europe is normally a similar level. I assume if you are in a location that doesn't have a sales tax you wouldn't be charged it.


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## Geomir (Nov 23, 2020)

Breaker said:


> If you live in EU and buy from EU you pay the VAT of your country of residence (I guess that's 23% in Greece).


LOL this is even bigger! But I never understood why so many companies (i.e. Best Service, which is also German based - I think) offer you the final price, all taxes included, and some others don't do it, leaving us to try to calculate the final price.


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## Geomir (Nov 23, 2020)

Markrs said:


> I'm UK so I might be wrong, but UK tax is 20% and Europe is normally a similar level. I assume if you are in a location that doesn't have a sales tax you wouldn't be charged it.


I know it is a normal average tax, I meant that if you add this 20% to the already huge price of the Berlin collection, then... Game Over!


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## Breaker (Nov 23, 2020)

Geomir said:


> LOL this is even bigger! But I never understood why so many companies (i.e. Best Service, which is also German based - I think) offer you the final price, all taxes included, and some others don't do it, leaving us to try to calculate the final price.


Maybe OT thinks their customers are professional instead of hobbyists/prosumers. At least their prices are very professional


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## wlinart (Nov 23, 2020)

But if you're not living in the EU, you don't have to pay the VAT, iirc


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 23, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> @ChrisSiuMusic
> 
> Is Berlin strings still your go-to?


I use BS mainly to layer in with CSS, but on its own, it's awesome as well!


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## axb312 (Nov 23, 2020)

When is the sale on up to? @OrchestralTools ?


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## ProfoundSilence (Nov 23, 2020)

Breaker said:


> Maybe OT thinks their customers are professional instead of hobbyists/prosumers. At least their prices are very professional


I would wager their target audience is professionals, or hobbyists with a budget. Considering the kind of people they work with regularly outside of the sample library world, I think their place in the market is secured. 3 A list composer collabs recently certainly enforces the idea that their libraries are professional quality.


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## Raphioli (Nov 23, 2020)

matthieuL said:


> Concerning Berlin Strings, all articulations sound good, but the legato is pretty unusable. So ugly.



Is the legato that bad in Berlin Strings?
Do you have any examples of the "ugly" legato?


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 23, 2020)

Raphioli said:


> Is the legato that bad in Berlin Strings?
> Do you have any examples of the "ugly" legato?


I personally think the legato is quite fluid in BS, and very good in BB on the solo instruments especially. Plus, the adaptive feature really helps.


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## Yogevs (Nov 23, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> I use BS mainly to layer in with CSS, but on its own, it's awesome as well!



So is CSS you Goto?


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 23, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> So is CSS you Goto?


Yes, at the moment for most of the work I do!


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 23, 2020)

Saya said:


> My dream comes true



You mean more like nightmare...


----------



## Chungus (Nov 23, 2020)

Aaaa! Paypal is borking out for me. Dx I sincerely hope it'll clear up soon. 

Sidenote: I wish OT had a cart function to their side. Lacking this is very silly.


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 23, 2020)

Well, OT finally got me. BWW is downloading now


----------



## Michael Antrum (Nov 23, 2020)

Again - It isn't even Black Friday yet, and there are more special offers to come from other vendors.

I'd sit on my wallet until Friday, there might be something even more interesting around the corner, then again, maybe not but what you have I got to lose by waiting ? I mean, it's not like they are going to run out of stock, is it ?

I really regretted not getting the Berlin Series when it went on it's first big sale a few years ago, and I swore if it came up again, I'd not miss the chance. But now the chance is here, I want to mull it over, and you have until Dec 1st to make up your mind.

It's a lump of change......


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## matthieuL (Nov 23, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> I personally think the legato is quite fluid in BS, and very good in BB on the solo instruments especially. Plus, the adaptive feature really helps.


It's the adaptative feature which is faulty for me. It jumps from a legato to an other without real reason, creating bumps. Moreover, I find it hard to have a smooth P or PP, it's always a little harsh.


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## ag75 (Nov 23, 2020)

Does this include the woodwind expansions? They have been on my to buy list for quite some time.


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## prodigalson (Nov 23, 2020)

constaneum said:


> awww....only the Berlin series? the rest not on sale ? sad.



theyve done sales on the Arks and Inspires several times I think this year alone. They rarely do sales on the Berlin Series so I'm ok with this.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 23, 2020)

ag75 said:


> Does this include the woodwind expansions? They have been on my to buy list for quite some time.


no, the main libraries are the only ones on sale


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## jneebz (Nov 23, 2020)

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo


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## ag75 (Nov 23, 2020)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> no, the main libraries are the only ones on sale


My wallet thanks you for letting it know.


----------



## Saya (Nov 23, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> You mean more like nightmare...



Actually this promo is great deal for me, I have been waiting for Berlin series sale ever since SINE migration started.
But honestly I never thought it could be at this special time point.
I have to abandon everything else on my BF to-buy list now for obvious reason


----------



## ZeroZero (Nov 23, 2020)

Lot's of people drooling over Berlin in this thread. I have been out of this game a few years and am about to pounce on a new orchestra. Control over articulation is key for me - finessing the sounds. Can people tell my_* why *_they rate this stuff so highly please?
I was just about to pounce on Iconica Opus I downloaded the free trial and is sounds pretty good to me. I like the way the emos integrate with Cubase 11. 
Can Berlin work well with Cubase's expression maps? I notice Berlin has a lot of articulations but the interface appears really simple - overly so perhaps? What about after performance tweaking? Can you get at stuff or is it all handled by the scripting? Does not appear to use key switching? 

I could just about afford this if I forget the percussion.

What makes this so good?

Z


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## dzilizzi (Nov 23, 2020)

Geomir said:


> LOL this is even bigger! But I never understood why so many companies (i.e. Best Service, which is also German based - I think) offer you the final price, all taxes included, and some others don't do it, leaving us to try to calculate the final price.


As a US citizen, I'm happy they don't. Otherwise I end up paying your VAT.


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 23, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> Again - It isn't even Black Friday yet, and there are more special offers to come from other vendors.
> 
> I'd sit on my wallet until Friday, there might be something even more interesting around the corner, then again, maybe not but what you have I got to lose by waiting ? I mean, it's not like they are going to run out of stock, is it ?
> 
> ...


Just speaking for myself, I've been waiting for a BWW sale for a long while now. I have a list, and it was the highest on the list lol


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## Marsen (Nov 23, 2020)

I'm interested in Berlin Woodwinds. 
How do you like them?


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## dzilizzi (Nov 23, 2020)

The thing is, OT has regularly given a free Sine instrument for every Kontakt one that has ported to Sine. The Sine intro sales are not 50% off. So if you want the Sine version, it is not a bad thing to buy this version now. You don't have to use it. 

Just my opinion. But, of course, it isn't worth it if you don't have the money.


----------



## David Kudell (Nov 23, 2020)

What a fantastic deal. I think the Berlin series has been on sale only once before a few years ago? I got these earlier this year - they're the foundation of my template.


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 23, 2020)

matthieuL said:


> It's the adaptative feature which is faulty for me. It jumps from a legato to an other without real reason, creating bumps. Moreover, I find it hard to have a smooth P or PP, it's always a little harsh.


That can be an issue for sure, but you can also force a specific legato type if you wish on any transition. That's saved me a couple of times


----------



## emilio_n (Nov 23, 2020)

Will be nice if they tell what is their plans about port Berlin Series to Sine and if will just a port as they did with the Ark 1 and Ark 2 or will come with some improvement.


----------



## matthieuL (Nov 23, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> That can be an issue for sure, but you can also force a specific legato type if you wish on any transition. That's saved me a couple of times


Yes, I discovered this few days ago. Maybe I am not able to use it properly... But I have better (and faster) results with Synchron Strings Pro.


----------



## Raphioli (Nov 23, 2020)

matthieuL said:


> It's the adaptative feature which is faulty for me. It jumps from a legato to an other without real reason, creating bumps. Moreover, I find it hard to have a smooth P or PP, it's always a little harsh.


Thanks for the the info.
If its a problem with the player choosing the right legato transition, then *maybe* their SINE player will fix it.


----------



## Raphioli (Nov 23, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> Will be nice if they tell what is their plans about port Berlin Series to Sine and if will just a port as they did with the Ark 1 and Ark 2 or will come with some improvement.


My assumption is that, the Berlin series have a lot of TM patches.
Afaik, their SINE player doesn't have a TM feature yet. So maybe that's the reason its taking them a bit more time.


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## ag75 (Nov 23, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> Will be nice if they tell what is their plans about port Berlin Series to Sine and if will just a port as they did with the Ark 1 and Ark 2 or will come with some improvement.


I haven't ported my ARK 1 and 2 over yet. Is it worth it?


----------



## coprhead6 (Nov 23, 2020)

Has anyone considered that they may be doing this before announcing a next-generation series in a couple weeks similar to Spitfire’s upcoming massive modular Abbey Road libraries? 

Maybe even Junkie XL Strings or something?

I would be worried about picking up Berlin Strings with all of its flaws even for 50% off if they announced The Next Big Thing on preorder before I could even finish downloading Berlin!!


----------



## Kevperry777 (Nov 23, 2020)

Come to me Berlin Brass. For some strong endorsements of Berlin Brass, look at John Powell or Jason Graves template.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 23, 2020)

ag75 said:


> I haven't ported my ARK 1 and 2 over yet. Is it worth it?


Not that I noticed, but it is free to do if you owned them before they ported and you don't have to download.


----------



## gjelul (Nov 23, 2020)

This is a no-brainer.


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 23, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> Has anyone considered that they may be doing this before announcing a next-generation series in a couple weeks similar to Spitfire’s upcoming massive modular Abbey Road libraries?
> 
> Maybe even Junkie XL Strings or something?
> 
> I would be worried about picking up Berlin Strings with all of its flaws even for 50% off if they announced The Next Big Thing on preorder before I could even finish downloading Berlin!!


If they do, it will be in Sine. I've had mixed results with Sine and it doesn't work directly in ProTools, my main DAW.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer (Nov 23, 2020)

Oh NO ... To get Berlin Woodwinds or finally wait for CSW ... Somebody help!


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 23, 2020)

Marsen said:


> I'm interested in Berlin Woodwinds.
> How do you like them?


I like the sound. I'm probably not the one to talk to about these things as I am no where near an expert.


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 23, 2020)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Oh NO ... To get Berlin Woodwinds or finally wait for CSW ... Somebody help!


CSW should be ready by next spring....no wait, Spring 2022...um, well, maybe Fall 2022???


----------



## Rudankort (Nov 23, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> What a fantastic deal. I think the Berlin series has been on sale only once before a few years ago? I got these earlier this year - they're the foundation of my template.



The only other time was Black Friday 2018, with 40% off. I had to pass on that deal. This time, I've saved a little, so I did not doubt for a second. It's an incredibly rare opportunity, and I've noticed over the years that I can easily spend money on various "no brainer" cheap or deeply discounted libraries and plugins, which would eventually add up to even more than Berlin series costs. But in terms of sound quality, amount of content and comprehensiveness (strings, brass, woodwinds and percussion are all recorded in the same space, readily available and complete) it still has very few competitors IMO. In fact, at this price, it actually looks like great value too.



coprhead6 said:


> I would be worried about picking up Berlin Strings with all of its flaws even for 50% off if they announced The Next Big Thing on preorder before I could even finish downloading Berlin!!



Even if they do it (which I doubt), it will take many years to complete this new series. For example, as far as I remember, both Synchron and Century series emerged in 2017, CSS arrived even earlier in 2016, and they are all still far from complete. When you compare this with everything available for Berlin (including all expansions), it can take literally another decade.


----------



## emilio_n (Nov 23, 2020)

ag75 said:


> I haven't ported my ARK 1 and 2 over yet. Is it worth it?


I just bought when ported to Sine, so I can't tell. No new functions or samples as far as I know. In my case I prefer Sine interface and now is working quite smooth for me.


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## NathanTiemeyer (Nov 23, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> CSW should be ready by next spring....no wait, Spring 2022...um, well, maybe Fall 2022???


Hah! That's my dilemma. I really wish I knew when CSW was coming out. If it was next month, I'd honestly skip out on this sale and buy CSW day one. Yes, I have that much faith in Alex and the team and I've enjoyed all of their previous products so much.


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## mscp (Nov 23, 2020)

How does Berlin Percussion compare with Cinesamples? I'm super curious.


----------



## Geomir (Nov 23, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> As a US citizen, I'm happy they don't. Otherwise I end up paying your VAT.


So when you buy something from (i.e.) Best Service at a fixed-price-for-everyone, you are paying taxes that you shouldn't? This is not nice at all!


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## jazzbozo (Nov 23, 2020)

Worth the wait: picked up Berlin WW and percussion. No timps, but I have other libraries to use for those until they go on sale. Thanks OT (and curses VI-Control for being a bad influence on my wallet)!


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## dzilizzi (Nov 23, 2020)

Phil81 said:


> How does Berlin Percussion compare with Cinesamples? I'm super curious.


I'm kind of curious also, as I own Cineperc and Cinebrass from the NI sale.


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 23, 2020)

Geomir said:


> So when you buy something from (i.e.) Best Service at a fixed-price-for-everyone, you are paying taxes that you shouldn't? This is not nice at all!


I think Best Service does remove the tax if you pay in $, since the prices are less than the conversion from Euros should be. But some of the smaller ones don't adjust.


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## Geomir (Nov 23, 2020)

Breaker said:


> Maybe OT thinks their customers are professional instead of hobbyists/prosumers. At least their prices are very professional


I think they are just made for people with high budget!  

I don't believe they care about who is pro and who is a hobbyist. They just care about people that can afford them no matter their background. I know hobbyists here earning so money from their "normal job" than the average musician would never dream off.

I understand they value their products with what you called "professional pricing", since they are excellent libraries, among the best of the best.


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## NathanTiemeyer (Nov 23, 2020)

Phil81 said:


> How does Berlin Percussion compare with Cinesamples? I'm super curious.


Can't speak for Berlin, but I picked up CinePerc when it was on sale recently and it'd been a home run for me. It's completely comprehensive and has everything you need for percussion- and most importantly it's simple to use and sounds great. The sound of the Sony Scoring Stage is perfect for orchestral percussion, it least in my humble opinion. The various mic positions also are a huge plus, the sound is really flexible. It's a great value at the the sale price. Yeah, I'm a big fan


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## dzilizzi (Nov 23, 2020)

If you can afford it, it is better to get the best. It is hard to learn on instruments that never sound real no matter what you do.


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## Geomir (Nov 23, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I think Best Service does remove the tax if you pay in $, since the prices are less than the conversion from Euros should be. But some of the smaller ones don't adjust.


I understand this is unfair...


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## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 23, 2020)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Can't speak for Berlin, but I picked up CinePerc when it was on sale recently and it'd been a home run for me. It's completely comprehensive and has everything you need for percussion- and most importantly it's simple to use and sounds great. The various mic positions also are a huge plus, the sound is really flexible. It's a great value at the the sale price. Yeah, I'm a big fan


I wholeheartedly agree! I am not even slightly tempted by Berlin Percussion since CinePerc already covers all my needs and more.


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## Beans (Nov 23, 2020)

Well, I've picked up Berlin Woodwinds. Thus completes my "filling the gaps" purchases I've made this year. 

I suppose I'm done here.


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## daan1412 (Nov 23, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> Has anyone considered that they may be doing this before announcing a next-generation series in a couple weeks similar to Spitfire’s upcoming massive modular Abbey Road libraries?
> 
> Maybe even Junkie XL Strings or something?
> 
> I would be worried about picking up Berlin Strings with all of its flaws even for 50% off if they announced The Next Big Thing on preorder before I could even finish downloading Berlin!!


Similar thinking keeps me from going for it. The Abbey Road modular series is something I'm looking forward to the most and I'm dead sure I'll be picking this up. I'm also interested in what Performance Samples is up to (Voyage). The thing is, I need a more or less comprehensive set of orchestral libraries right now and the stuff I mentioned could arrive in like 2 years or whatever. So at the moment I'm considering BBCSO Core as a budget-friendly solution. Another option is some kind of mixture between Cinematic Studio Series and Infinite Series. I'm still very tempted by this Berlin sale... Pretty complicated.


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## RogiervG (Nov 23, 2020)

not sure yet.. listening closely to the vids.. there is something off with some instruments.. (either legato, or tonality, especially trumpets and trombones)
Same with the oboe 1

but still in doubt..since this deal is happening very rarely...

pardon my french, but DAMN.. i need more money.. for all the things i want with BF and Holiday sales.
(dorico is now also 50% discount e.g. VSL has a nice offers (CUBE e.g.), who knows maybe just maybe cinematic studio woods come too... aaaaarghhhh!


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## jamwerks (Nov 23, 2020)

Auch, was hoping for some discounted individual instruments from Arks I & II.


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## coprhead6 (Nov 23, 2020)

daan1412 said:


> The thing is, I need a more or less comprehensive set of orchestral libraries right now and the stuff I mentioned could arrive in like 2 years or whatever. So at the moment I'm considering BBCSO Core as a budget-friendly solution. Another option is some kind of mixture between Cinematic Studio Series and Infinite Series. I'm still very tempted by this Berlin sale... Pretty complicated.



Oh for sure, you should get something now!!
I already have a full Spitfire Air Lyndhurst template with CSB and other things filling in the gaps.


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## Zero&One (Nov 23, 2020)

Beans said:


> I suppose I'm done here.



See you in the next bonanza sale thread 😂


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## Hendrixon (Nov 23, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> Oh for sure, you should get something now!!



Classic vi-c


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## mscp (Nov 23, 2020)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Can't speak for Berlin, but I picked up CinePerc when it was on sale recently and it'd been a home run for me. It's completely comprehensive and has everything you need for percussion- and most importantly it's simple to use and sounds great. The sound of the Sony Scoring Stage is perfect for orchestral percussion, it least in my humble opinion. The various mic positions also are a huge plus, the sound is really flexible. It's a great value at the the sale price. Yeah, I'm a big fan



I have CS Perc, that's why I'm curious whether to invest in another library or not.


----------



## musicalweather (Nov 23, 2020)

ZeroZero said:


> Lot's of people drooling over Berlin in this thread. I have been out of this game a few years and am about to pounce on a new orchestra. Control over articulation is key for me - finessing the sounds. Can people tell my_* why *_they rate this stuff so highly please?
> I was just about to pounce on Iconica Opus I downloaded the free trial and is sounds pretty good to me. I like the way the emos integrate with Cubase 11.
> Can Berlin work well with Cubase's expression maps? I notice Berlin has a lot of articulations but the interface appears really simple - overly so perhaps? What about after performance tweaking? Can you get at stuff or is it all handled by the scripting? Does not appear to use key switching?
> 
> ...


I'm very new to Cubase (just got Pro 11) but have been using the Berlin main libraries for a couple of years now. The libraries have a very wide range of articulations, and I think they're best used with expression maps. Otherwise, you're slowed down considerably by having to tediously put in key switches in your piano roll editor or pile on the single articulation instruments, or you can choose to simply use a limited set of articulations and hope that that covers you. I think the latter is how I've handled it the last few years. Having expression maps has _really_ opened things up. 

I'm currently working on a mockup of a full orchestral score and have loaded up the Berlin multis with the maximum number of articulations (12 each). It is wonderful. Using expression maps, I can experiment and find exactly the right articulations for what I'm seeking, and using a wider variety of articulations lets me have more subtleties in the performance. You do have to have some good specs on your machine. Mine is a 16-core, 128 GB Ram machine and hasn't broken a sweat yet. I do worry about loading multiple mic positions with these multis. Yikes! I guess when it comes time, I can load multiple mics and then purge the samples I don't need. 

I'm very happy with the results I've gotten working with Berlin. Here are some of my first stabs at each section. 

Brass: Brass fanfare by Dukas

Strings: Green Acre composed by Blakus

Woods: Nielsen Woodwind Quintet excerpt

Regarding your other questions, I haven't done much performance tweaking, though I have turned down the release tails of the double bass pizz, which seems to go on forever. Hopefully others will be able to answer that question more thoroughly. The multis use keyswitching.


----------



## GingerMaestro (Nov 23, 2020)

matthieuL said:


> It's the adaptative feature which is faulty for me. It jumps from a legato to an other without real reason, creating bumps. Moreover, I find it hard to have a smooth P or PP, it's always a little harsh.


Hi all,

I have had my eye on Berlin Strings for a good couple of years as I was regarding it as the ultimate professional workhorse string library. Now hearing less than glowing comments about the legato, I’m feeling even at 50% off, it’s still alot of money on a bit of a gamble. I own CSS, CSSS, Fluid Shorts 1&2, con moto, SCS and SSS, OSRuns, Cineruns , VMS And Epic Strings (ugghhh seeing them written out like that seems quite a lot !) 

I use CSS and Performance samples stuff everyday.

Would I be wasting my money on Berlin Strings ? perhaps I should keep exploring ways to make what I have sound better ? Will be be buying vista when it comes out as it just sounds gorgeous. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

thanks


----------



## jbuhler (Nov 23, 2020)

GingerMaestro said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have had my eye on Berlin Strings for a good couple of years as I was regarding it as the ultimate professional workhorse string library. Now hearing less than glowing comments about the legato, I’m feeling even at 50% off, it’s still alot of money on a bit of a gamble. I own CSS, CSSS, Fluid Shorts 1&2, con moto, SCS and SSS, OSRuns, Cineruns , VMS And Epic Strings (ugghhh seeing them written out like that seems quite a lot !)
> 
> ...


Wasting your money, no, so long as you have a system that can run them or you are willing to live with using much less of the library than it is capable of delivering. I would listen to the sound and make sure it fits your music. I also find that they take longer to program than my other string libraries, and so I often pass them over because of that.


----------



## Marsen (Nov 23, 2020)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Can't speak for Berlin, but I picked up CinePerc when it was on sale recently and it'd been a home run for me. It's completely comprehensive and has everything you need for percussion- and most importantly it's simple to use and sounds great. The sound of the Sony Scoring Stage is perfect for orchestral percussion, it least in my humble opinion. The various mic positions also are a huge plus, the sound is really flexible. It's a great value at the the sale price. Yeah, I'm a big fan



Me too.


----------



## GingerMaestro (Nov 23, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Wasting your money, no, so long as you have a system that can run them or you are willing to live with using much less of the library than it is capable of delivering. I would listen to the sound and make sure it fits your music. I also find that they take longer to program than my other string libraries, and so I often pass them over because of that.


Thanks so much, that’s very useful. I think it’s going to be a no for now. I’d rather wait till it eventually goes to sine and then I can try it out a la carte. Thanks again


----------



## korgoasys (Nov 23, 2020)

Lordy, Lordy, Lordy. I've just bought Synchron Strings Pro. Should you wait for the Brass and Woodwind and Percusion Synchron versions or pitch in for these 50% Black Friday offers ? I can wait but I really don't know. Any thoughts 
Patrick


----------



## river angler (Nov 23, 2020)

Just some thoughts for anyone else here using exclusively Berlin Inspire 1 & 2 for their main orchestral needs (professional work) considering re-investing to the Berlin Series...

Putting the current offer price aside! there are advantages and disadvantages to the main Berlin Series. The greater selection of instruments/articulations with more detailed dynamic/expressive performance is of course tempting but not necessarily always useful.

Having used the Inspire Series solidly for over 2 years now I can vouch for the sound and overall adaptability of the Berlin instruments as being exquisite, powerful and expressive and most importantly extremely convincing in terms of realism.

I've never pined after the main Berlin Series simply because the Inspire Series uses a very decent selection of exactly the same sample recordings if in a reduced and sometimes ensemble capacity. Also I work solely on a 2012 i7 MacBook Pro with 16Gig maximum RAM and imagine I would get frustrated with the much bigger CPU load management that the more detailed Berlin series would demand. One can always purge what one doesn't need of course but the last thing I would want to be laboured with is technical running issues when 40+ instances of the library are in tow! Inspire is fantastic on this score! (full pun intended!) and hence very ergonomic to work with.

Even if I did migrate back to a desktop system with 128Gig of RAM as much as the greater selection of instruments/articulations with more detailed dynamic/expressive performance is undoubtedly there in the main Berlin series one still has to deal with taming more shrews- one can end up mocking up a selection of individual string sections for example in the Berlin main library only to find that the already mixed version from the Inspire series is just as convincing pretty much bringing the same result in far less time!

The current offer price is tempting and of course to have the much bigger selection of samples would be really useful however I've been so satisfied with the Inspire Series with everything I do even for full chamber/symphonic mock-ups I find there's nearly always a way of taming Inspire to produce what I need. If there is a particular articulation I really can not produce I fly in something from elsewhere and blend it with a judiciously programmed reverb/ambience to match.

It's worth considering therefore that once they become available individually (I wish they would do so for Capsule as well as Sine!) one can always pick up specific articulations from the main Berlin series not covered in Inspire. But does one really need access to all of them instantly? Well that depends on the composition of course!

Bare in mind this comes from a pro composer mainly writing bespoke music in film/TV who prefers to be pushed creatively by having a more modest pallet of sounds to work with rather than an arsenal of VSTs at his beck and call! Hence I have just a smattering of the basic essentials not only for orchestral work but also for film trailer, incidental and underscore. For I have found that always having less tools is definitely the way to go if you want to push yourself creatively and nurture that envelope towards finding your own individual style as a composer.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Nov 23, 2020)

Geomir said:


> So when you buy something from (i.e.) Best Service at a fixed-price-for-everyone, you are paying taxes that you shouldn't? This is not nice at all!



That is not the case at all. Infact, Best Service are merely complying with the law with reference to where the customer is based.

If someone for outside the EU buys a product, there is no VAT. This is done form thre nationality of customers address and their payment method.

I'm in the UK, but I'm also VAT registered. I provide my VAT number to Best Service, and the VAT is not charged.

Yet take UAD, for example, they charge people in the EU VAT, but they will not remove the VAT if you have a valid VAT number, which they are supposed to do. That's why I don't buy any more plugins from UAD. (having said that, I'm pretty sorted in that department).


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 23, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> Has anyone considered that they may be doing this before announcing a next-generation series in a couple weeks similar to Spitfire’s upcoming massive modular Abbey Road libraries?
> 
> Maybe even Junkie XL Strings or something?
> 
> I would be worried about picking up Berlin Strings with all of its flaws even for 50% off if they announced The Next Big Thing on preorder before I could even finish downloading Berlin!!


Number one rule. Never, ever make buying decisions on something you haven't seen.

BWW seems more than worth it at this price. Another library won't change that, and if it's truly better, it's unlikely to be for this price anyway


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 23, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> That is not the case at all. Infact, Best Service are merely complying with the law with reference to where the customer is based.
> 
> If someone for outside the EU buys a product, there is no VAT. This is done form thre nationality of customers address and their payment method.
> 
> ...


That is kind of what I was saying. Best Service does it properly. But not all the European sellers do. I think it may be a "I'm a retailer, I can handle paying for a storefront that calculates the tax" vs. "I'm just a little guy and I can't deal with paying tax to all these different countries, so you all pay the tax rate of where I live." I think the taxing authorities allow a little leeway on the small sellers. I buy things like books online and most of the small sellers either go through Amazon or Ebay because the fee covers dealing with the various state taxes.


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## dedene (Nov 23, 2020)

What would be the advantage of using / purchasing the Berlin series compared to i.e. the Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra?


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## Bman70 (Nov 23, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Yes, at the moment for most of the work I do!



Interesting... a $299 library and a $900 library, and the less expensive one is the workhorse. Good data point!


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## Jacob Fanto (Nov 23, 2020)

dedene said:


> What would be the advantage of using / purchasing the Berlin series compared to i.e. the Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra?


Same question


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 23, 2020)

dedene said:


> What would be the advantage of using / purchasing the Berlin series compared to i.e. the Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra?


Different room? 

Teldex is similar in size to Abbey Road, so it has a nice reflection but not huge. Air Lyndhurst can be a lot larger sounding reflection-wise, depending on where the ceiling is (it moves up and down to make the room bigger or smaller) If you like a bigger sounding room (I do), you will love SSO. But it has its problems, some of which can be fixed by using close mics. Being a smaller room, Berlin should blend better with other libraries that were recorded in similar sized rooms without a lot of messing around. 

Otherwise, they both have their good and bad points.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 23, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> Interesting... a $299 library and a $900 library, and the less expensive one is the workhorse. Good data point!


The workflow of CSS is also more suited to me, whereas for Berlin one single articulation can take up to 1gb RAM.


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## lettucehat (Nov 23, 2020)

Yeah it's crazy how mind-blowing the adaptive legato was, and now next to the much cheaper CSS that just makes it all work so smoothly, there's a difficult decision to make even when Berlin is 50% off. Of course Berlin is ay more exhaustive and that's worth noting. Depends what one needs.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 23, 2020)

OT is still not offering the crossgrade from BWW Legacy to BWW Revive (used to be available and now is "will be reinstated at a later time"). Such a puzzling move. And no indications when these libraries will be converted to SINE.


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## lettucehat (Nov 23, 2020)

Does there happen to be anyone who has Berlin Brass *and* Century 2.0 from 8dio? Probably not but I'm curious about the comparison. Again, major respect to Berlin for having the individual players but overall I'm considering sound quality and realism, if anyone has insight as to how they compare...


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## tebling (Nov 23, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> The workflow of CSS is also more suited to me, whereas for Berlin one single articulation can take up to 1gb RAM.



I entered November with no WW library, and so when Infinite Woodwinds went on sale I grabbed it.

In a similar vein to your statement, I'm not feeling any strong regrets now that BWW is on sale - mostly because the comparisons point to BWW having a larger resource footprint and requiring more programming to reach their potential.


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## muziksculp (Nov 23, 2020)

Regarding the Legato, SINE offers Auto Volume Scaling feature, which should make sure the transitions are super smooth, without any bumpiness. Kontakt does not have this feature. 

I'm confident that the OT Team will be polishing all their Berlin libraries once again for SINE. So, if you have the Berlin Kontakt version, when the SINE version of it is available, it will not only be a free transition, but an improved overall product.  It's a win win scenario.


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## Jacob Fanto (Nov 23, 2020)

lettucehat said:


> Does there happen to be anyone who has Berlin Brass *and* Century 2.0 from 8dio? Probably not but I'm curious about the comparison. Again, major respect to Berlin for having the individual players but overall I'm considering sound quality and realism, if anyone has insight as to how they compare...


Same question


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## Geomir (Nov 23, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> That is not the case at all. Infact, Best Service are merely complying with the law with reference to where the customer is based.
> 
> If someone for outside the EU buys a product, there is no VAT. This is done form thre nationality of customers address and their payment method.
> 
> ...


I thought I could trust blindly all major retailers - companies and e-shops that sell gear and software. Maybe I will need to be more cautious in the future. Thanks for the hint.


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## axb312 (Nov 23, 2020)

When does the sale end?


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## muziksculp (Nov 23, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> The workflow of CSS is also more suited to me, whereas for Berlin one single articulation can take up to 1gb RAM.



Hi Chris, 

Yes, that's one of the downsides of the current Kontakt based Berlin Libraries, but.. I think once they are in SINE format, they will be much more efficient in terms of RAM. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## jbuhler (Nov 23, 2020)

river angler said:


> Anyone here using exclusively Berlin Inspire 1 & 2 for their main orchestral needs (professional work) considering re-investing to the Berlin Series?
> 
> The two things that intrigue me are firstly the far greater selection of instruments/articulations with supposedly more dynamic/expressive performance and I admit the current offer price!
> 
> ...


I found Berlin Strings almost unusable on my 2012 i7 MacBook Pro with 16GB. They were barely usable on my 2015 iMac i7 with 32GB. (Meaning I could run Berlin Strings but hardly anything with them.) The library only really became functional when I upgraded the iMac to 64GB.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 23, 2020)

OT has a new year sale?


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## river angler (Nov 23, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I found Berlin Strings almost unusable on my 2012 i7 MacBook Pro with 16GB. They were barely usable on my 2015 iMac i7 with 32GB. (Meaning I could run Berlin Strings but hardly anything with them.) The library only really became functional when I upgraded the iMac to 64GB.



Yes! I think Tobias from OT waned me about this two years ago when I was considering the library!

I have a current piece running 52 tracks of Inspire not even purged!


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## Bman70 (Nov 23, 2020)

Emptying wallet to buy Berlin libraries: 





Finding out about needing new $5000 computer to run them:


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## Jacob Fanto (Nov 23, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> Emptying wallet to buy Berlin libraries:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is why I have not and will not be taking the plunge on this one luckily...


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## jimjazzuk (Nov 23, 2020)

I've always drooled over the Berlin Woodwinds, but just wondered what they are actually like to work with? I use keyswitches/articulation sets in Logic.


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## X-Bassist (Nov 23, 2020)

I've been waiting for this, but it's still so expensive. The strings are still more than Afflatus at half price.

Yet, this may be the LAST time the kontakt versions are this cheap from OT. Next they will release the Sine version and NI may or may not have one more sale on the kontakt versions. By this time next year these could be "legacy versions" and unsupported.

I like using Kontakt so it's a big decision. Although I don't like that they haven't made capsule more efficient before jumping ship.

That and now my *Kontakt versions no longer show up in my account at OT*. Only Sine instruments show up and as they port libraries over I have to prove with a reciept email that I own them so they can add them. Really messed up OT. If my emails get lost I'm out of luck. You can only register them once they are ported to Sine, which few are at this point. They claim the system still has track of them, but if I have to prove ownership of each library (I have maybe a dozen or so) how is that keeping track?

Thanks OT! Really wanted the Strings and Woodwinds, and was pondering the Brass, but now that I think about having to add all these individually to get the Sine versions, I'll save myself some time and skip it.


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## Marsen (Nov 23, 2020)

I saw a measured trills flute patch reaching over1Gb Ram.
Legatos round 300-350mb. As you don't have sections, 3 Flutes legatos will easily reach 1Gb. Sustains & Shorts are no problem.
I wonder, if a mac mini wifh 64Gb Ram can handle this.

I have both Inspires, Arcs 3&4 and all the Cinesamples/ Spitfire stuff.
On the other hand, I love the OT Sound and the possibilties.

For the strings, I guess you should have at least128 GB Ram. Same for the brass I guess, considering using a good amount of articulations.
Am I wrong? Opinions of Berlin Users?


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## Marsen (Nov 23, 2020)

X-Bassist said:


> That and now my *Kontakt versions no longer show up in my account at OT*. Only Sine instruments show up and as they port libraries over I have to prove with a reciept email that I own them so they can add them. Really messed up OT. If my emails get lost I'm out of luck. You can only register them once they are ported to Sine, which few are at this point.
> 
> Thanks OT! Really wanted the Strings and Woodwinds, and was pondering the Brass, but now that I think about having to add all these individually to get the Sine versions, I'll save myself some time and skip it.



I have to disagree on this one.

OT-Support is gorgeous.
You really don't have to worry bout your licenses.
I lost my receipt of one of their (smaller)libraries but anyway, they sorted it out for me. I'm sure your safe as long you have your serials or the name of your mail account.


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## Noeticus (Nov 23, 2020)

Does anyone know how many computers or installations you can use with Berlin Woodwinds etc.?

How many Dynamic layers?


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## RSK (Nov 23, 2020)

Oh, no.

I had planned on getting the Spitfire Symphony Orchestra. This is a serious wrench in that plan.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 23, 2020)

X-Bassist said:


> I've been waiting for this, but it's still so expensive. The strings are still more than Afflatus at half price.
> 
> Yet, this may be the LAST time the kontakt versions are this cheap from OT. Next they will release the Sine version and NI may or may not have one more sale on the kontakt versions. By this time next year these could be "legacy versions" and unsupported.
> 
> ...


Your SN's are in Native Access for all OT libraries that work with the Kontakt Player - which is pretty much all of the old ones. Click on the library name in NA and an info window will pop up with the SN that you can use in Sine.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 23, 2020)

Noeticus said:


> Does anyone know how many computers or installations you can use with Berlin Woodwinds etc.?
> 
> How many Dynamic layers?


Kontakt libraries are the same as Kontakt. I technically have 3 installations - one on my main download computer for testing after download, one on my studio desktop and one on my mobile studio laptop. I've never had an issue. I am the only user though.


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## Marsen (Nov 23, 2020)

Marsen said:


> I saw a measured trills flute patch reaching over1Gb Ram



I just realized, that TO stands for "Trills Orchestrator".
That's why the patch reaches 1GB Ram.

From OT page:

" The Trills Orchestrator script manages the largest collection of trills and interval tremolos ever created – a massive time-saver! Choose your trill interval by simply pressing the starting note and the final note. Trills are available as half tones, whole tones, minor thirds, major thirds, fourths, augmented fourths and fifth (Berlin Woodwinds Legacy)."

This seems to be exactly, what i was looking for.


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## Drumdude2112 (Nov 23, 2020)

Oh MAN this 'throws' a wrench into things lol...was gonna throw down on some VSL , and some more UAD plugins , but wow , tempting. OR do i just chill on the Berlin Stuff for now and catch when its ported over to Sine...(prolly wont be 50% off but i think berlin in particular be a much better experience on Sine )...I dunno 🤷 , what to do what to do lol .


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## Hendrixon (Nov 23, 2020)

Drumdude2112 said:


> Oh MAN this 'throws' a wrench into things lol...was gonna throw down on some VSL , and some more UAD plugins , but wow , tempting. OR do i just chill on the Berlin Stuff for now and catch when its ported over to Sine...(prolly wont be 50% off but i think berlin in particular be a much better experience on Sine )...I dunno 🤷 , what to do what to do lol .




Ok... I'll do it...


Buy them now!!! this is the best black friday ever!!!
This global epidemic is a once in a life time opportunity!!!
Man you will regret this... trust me!!! (yea like we know each other)


----------



## Drumdude2112 (Nov 23, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Ok... I'll do it...
> 
> 
> Buy them now!!! this is the best black friday ever!!!
> ...



🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## David Kudell (Nov 23, 2020)

I have never had a problem running any Berlin libs. I mean, don't we all use DAWs like Logic or Cubase where you don't load a track until you activate it? You just load the articulations you're playing. My 32GB of RAM Mac Pro Trashcan handles it fine, more RAM is better but that goes for any sample junkie.


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## Marsen (Nov 23, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I have never had a problem running any Berlin libs. I mean, don't we all use DAWs like Logic or Cubase where you don't load a track until you activate it? You just load the articulations you're playing. My 32GB of RAM Mac Pro Trashcan handles it fine, more RAM is better but that goes for any sample junkie.



So your telling me 32Gigs does work for you with Berlin?
You purge all Samples after loading? I know that for ex. Anne-Kathrin Dern does.

I´m already sure to buy the Woodwinds but unsure for more.

After this BF, I need holiday, wait...


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## rmak (Nov 23, 2020)

I have a 2016 MacBook Pro, i7 2.7GHz quad core with 16 gb ram. Is it probably not a good idea for me to get Berlin Woodwinds or VSL stuff for that matter. Instead, I should go for infinite, Embertone, or fluffy WW? I'm also planning to get Afflatus. No brass lib for now. Percussion damage 1 + maybe smaller lib like Saga or Flyinghand Perc.


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## jbuhler (Nov 23, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Kontakt libraries are the same as Kontakt. I technically have 3 installations - one on my main download computer for testing after download, one on my studio desktop and one on my mobile studio laptop. I've never had an issue. I am the only user though.


I’m pretty sure some Kontakt Player licenses only allow 2 installations. At least that used to be the case. Maybe they standardized that when they moved to Native Access.


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## jbuhler (Nov 23, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I have never had a problem running any Berlin libs. I mean, don't we all use DAWs like Logic or Cubase where you don't load a track until you activate it? You just load the articulations you're playing. My 32GB of RAM Mac Pro Trashcan handles it fine, more RAM is better but that goes for any sample junkie.


It’s true that when I was working with 32GB Logic still loaded everything. The library would almost certainly behave a bit better today. And it’s also true that you can use the library with a smaller memory footprint if you don’t load all the articulations. That said, you lose a lot of the advantages of the library by not loading the full set of articulations and i found it still didn’t leave enough room to load as part of an orchestral template with the reduced set of articulations I wanted. So I could work with Berlin Strings at 32GB if I was just working on a string piece. Or I could spend a lot of time freezing and unfreezing tracks. Or I could use other string libraries that didn’t take neatly so much RAM. I opted mostly for the latter.


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## jneebz (Nov 23, 2020)

Kevperry777 said:


> Come to me Berlin Brass. For some strong endorsements of Berlin Brass, look at John Powell or Jason Graves template.


Yeah but they could make kazoos sound good...


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## mscp (Nov 23, 2020)

Marsen said:


> So your telling me 32Gigs does work for you with Berlin?
> You purge all Samples after loading? I know that for ex. Anne-Kathrin Dern does.
> 
> I´m already sure to buy the Woodwinds but unsure for more.
> ...



You can purge all, but Kontakt stores scripting data and other residuals on RAM too - normal.

Either way, if you're only on OT, "fine". If you have a larger template...hmm..


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## dzilizzi (Nov 23, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I’m pretty sure some Kontakt Player licenses only allow 2 installations. At least that used to be the case. Maybe they standardized that when they moved to Native Access.


Ah, but they don't actually control it. And, generally, you only use one at a time. 

But I think, technically, you are correct.


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## Drumdude2112 (Nov 23, 2020)

So , anyone here have both Berlin Brass and JXL brass ?...I have JXL , is it worth having Berlin too ? (in your opinion that is ) I'm gonna go for the woods (as i dont even Have a dedicated woods library ) and i can possibly swing the brass too if it really brings something different to the party from what i have.
(Bought Afflatus last week so berlin strings is a no go lol )


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## jbuhler (Nov 23, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Ah, but they don't actually control it. And, generally, you only use one at a time.
> 
> But I think, technically, you are correct.


I just changed computers and unlike the last time (2016) when I had to contact individual vendors of Kontakt player libraries to get authorizations straightened out, this time everything went through without a hitch.


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## borisb2 (Nov 23, 2020)

no brainer ... downloading as we speak


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## BlackDorito (Nov 23, 2020)

Can someone with experience tell me how Berlin WW - which I've heard a lot about over the years - stands above the Spitfire winds (SSW, Tundra, Andy Findon) and/or other OT (Ark 1,2, Time Macro), or 8dio Claire instruments?

I ask because I was about to pull the trigger on Cinebrass (great price), but when I itemized all my brass, I couldn't find an no-brainer reason to get it. However I did just get Afflatus because all those wonderful videos convinced me it sounded unlike my other (long list of) string libs, so that was a no-brainer.

I've itemized my WW and I'm wondering whether there's a no-brainer reason for Berlin WW.


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## Kony (Nov 23, 2020)

BlackDorito said:


> I've itemized my WW and I'm wondering whether there's a no-brainer reason for Berlin WW.


I have BWW Legacy and absolutely love it - if that's any help. I've heard demos with SSW and didn't like it as much. Matter of personal taste though. I think the oboe in particular is better - and this is coming from a younger brother of a former BBC Phil's principal oboist - ie I grew up constantly listening to oboe practice


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## axb312 (Nov 23, 2020)

When is this sale up to?


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## emilio_n (Nov 23, 2020)

axb312 said:


> @OrchestralTools @Hendrik-Schwarzer When is this sale up to?


The banner clearly said December 1st.


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## axb312 (Nov 23, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> The banner clearly said December 1st.



Ooh. Thanks. Believe that wasn't there yesterday.


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## rmak (Nov 23, 2020)

Is Berlin WW normally a more expensive library partly or maybe mainly because they have 6 microphone positions? I noticed that with Spitfire pro libraries as well. I know that you are also paying for the orchestral tool brand and sound; it has the adaptive legato and articulations. Sorry I'm a bit new to all of this still; I am trying to understand the value of what I am paying for versus an alternative like infinite WW that is less cpu hungry, takes less storage, and has more playability. If the library had 3 microphone positions, would it be in the price range of $300 to $400? I am also asking because I don't imagine that I will need 6 different microphone positions, so I would be paying for something I wouldn't use? Is that the right way to approach this?

Or maybe I just don't understand the value of microphone positions when everything comes in together in a finished track with different instruments panned left and right. I haven't heard or experienced it.


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## constaneum (Nov 23, 2020)

instead of Berlin Brass, i've just bought JXL Brass's French Horn a6. Remarkable sound. I don't mind the limited articulations as I rarely use those artiuclations such as double tongue, triple tongue & etc! Good enough for me and it's the killing sound that I'm looking for.


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## Laptoprabbit (Nov 23, 2020)

rmak said:


> Is Berlin WW normally a more expensive library partly or maybe mainly because they have 6 microphone positions? I noticed that with Spitfire pro libraries as well. I know that you are also paying for the orchestral tool brand and sound; it has the adaptive legato and articulations. Sorry I'm a bit new to all of this still; I am trying to understand the value of what I am paying for versus an alternative like infinite WW that is less cpu hungry, takes less storage, and has more playability. If the library had 3 microphone positions, would it be in the price range of $300 to $400? I am also asking because I don't imagine that I will need 6 different microphone positions, so I would be paying for something I wouldn't use? Is that the right way to approach this?
> 
> Or maybe I just don't understand the value of microphone positions when everything comes in together in a finished track with different instruments panned left and right. I haven't heard or experienced it.


I feel similarly even though I do think mic positions are important. On one hand, this is a great sale. On the other hand, it's tough to go back from Infinite.


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## rmak (Nov 23, 2020)

Laptoprabbit said:


> I feel similarly even though I do think mic positions are important. On one hand, this is a great sale. On the other hand, it's tough to go back from Infinite.



Even though Berlin WW is a great sale, I am leaning towards Infinite or combination of Embertone and Fluffy solo WW. I am not a mix engineer, and I don't think I can fully take advantage of the mic positions. I'll just be turning things up and down without a deep understanding of its implications haha. Part of the reason I am purchasing libraries is because I am trying to find inspiration from new sounds, and I'm trying to avoid instances of unnecessary trouble shooting. Also with my cpu being 2016 MacBook Pro, I may encounter some frustrating issues with load times as I have never purchased orchestral libraries.


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## jazzbozo (Nov 23, 2020)

Phil81 said:


> How does Berlin Percussion compare with Cinesamples? I'm super curious.



Spent some quality time with Berlin Percussion today after work. I have Cineperc, which I like a lot and has all the percussion you could possibly need, but Berlin seems deeper to me, both in sampling and in overall tone. Take the snares. Each of 6 different snares is sampled from a whisper-quiet to ff, with and without the snares engaged, and in the case of the majestic pro, with 4 (!) different snare wire configurations. On YouTube, you can hear the snares demonstrated on the BP walkthrough by Sascha Knorr - they sound amazing. And that’s just the snares. Cineperc has timpani, which Berlin has as a separate library, and Cineperc has a drum kit, ethnic percussion (literally more bells and whistles!). If you want a library that does it all, you cannot go wrong with Cineperc. But I’m really digging the sound of Berlin Percussion.


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## matthieuL (Nov 24, 2020)

Berlin Percussion can be very annoying to use as there is a huge step in velocity layers (for example for marimba or vibraphone). And I don't know if the balance can be trusted (for example, the celesta is way louder than other instruments).
Sorry to be negative again, but I don't want other people having the same disappointement as me. The library is very good, but better than others I don't think, it has flaws and aberrations (for this price range) like others.
And again, maybe SINE will fix some things.

EDIT : just checked, for example the marimba becomes suddenly very percussive and loud at velocity 80, the vibraphone at velocity 65. Totally unusable in some conditions (crescendo of repeated notes...), at least very difficult to manage.


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## Bluemount Score (Nov 24, 2020)

I'm mostly interested in the Berlin Series to get full control over individual sections to blend them with Ark 1 - 4... I always liked the idea of different samples all being recorded in the same space, however I'm not sure if that idea is worth $1000 and more, considering I felt quite succesful before when blending my Arks with the Cinematic Studio Series.
This sale definitely is a rare oppertunity, but still lots of money, which makes me think about how incredibly expensive the Berlin Series _actually _is, compared to other alternatives... and that is without the expansions.


----------



## Jorgakis (Nov 24, 2020)

I recently bought Berlin Strings for Staffpad and they're just mindblowingly good. I seriously consider buying them for the DAW but I can't seem to hear the actual DAW version sounding better? Especially the legatos, they seem to be better on the ipad. I don't know if it's the reverb on the ipad but the standard version Berlin Strings demos sound not the same to me...can anyone confirm that?


----------



## Christopher Rocky (Nov 24, 2020)

Bluemount Score said:


> I'm mostly interested in the Berlin Series to get full control over individual sections to blend them with Ark 1 - 4... I always liked the idea of different samples all being recorded in the same space, however I'm not sure if that idea is worth $1000 and more, considering I felt quite succesful before when blending my Arks with the Cinematic Studio Series.
> This sale definitely is a rare oppertunity, but still lots of money, which makes me think about how incredibly expensive the Berlin Series _actually _is....


If we look at the past, there is a possibility within the next 12-24 months there might be a big NI sale on the kontakt versions of the berlin series in a bundle that will be more than 50% off, 
it might not happen, 
but they have done this the last 12-24 months with arks/time/bows/inspire, So they might do another big sale either before sine release, obviously just (HOPEFULLY) speculating


----------



## CT (Nov 24, 2020)

matthieuL said:


> Berlin Percussion can be very annoying to use as there is a huge step in velocity layers (for example for marimba or vibraphone). And I don't know if the balance can be trusted (for example, the celesta is way louder than other instruments).
> Sorry to be negative again, but I don't want other people having the same disappointement as me. The library is very good, but better than others I don't think, it has flaws and aberrations (for this price range) like others.
> And again, maybe SINE will fix some things.
> 
> EDIT : just checked, for example the marimba becomes suddenly very percussive and loud at velocity 80, the vibraphone at velocity 65. Totally unusable in some conditions (crescendo of repeated notes...), at least very difficult to manage.



Thanks for pointing this out. I was just poking around my percussion stuff, noticing similar issues, and wondering if the often praised Berlin Percussion might be worth it to rectify that. Oh well....

As a somewhat related side note, I've noticed that many if not most libraries share the same issues, to one degree or another. When I think something wonky might be better handled in a library I don't own, a little research often makes it clear that it's not. And if it is, of course, there's some other damning issue to contend with.


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## Bluemount Score (Nov 24, 2020)

Christopher Rocky said:


> If we look at the past, there is a possibility within the next 12-24 months there might be a big NI sale on the kontakt versions of the berlin series in a bundle that will be more than 50% off,
> it might not happen,
> but they have done this the last 12-24 months with arks/time/bows/inspire, So they might do another big sale either before sine release, obviously just (HOPEFULLY) speculating


Might be. I got my Arks that way. Wouldn't have bought them at full price either (even though I must admit they are amongst the greatest libraries I own)


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 24, 2020)

Jorgakis said:


> I recently bought Berlin Strings for Staffpad and they're just mindblowingly good. I seriously consider buying them for the DAW but I can't seem to hear the actual DAW version sounding better? Especially the legatos, they seem to be better on the ipad. I don't know if it's the reverb on the ipad but the standard version Berlin Strings demos sound not the same to me...can anyone confirm that?


@ka00 sent me some demos of BS on Staffpad and it definitely sounded better than the vst for some reason


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Nov 24, 2020)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Extremely so, but hopefully when they move them to Sine it will be less of an issue.
> 
> Their capsule multis don't make things easy resource-wise


I wonder if they are doing this big sale, now because they are going to release the SINE versions soon...
I get a sneaky suspicion that they might be


----------



## Zero&One (Nov 24, 2020)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I wonder if they are doing this big sale, now because they are going to release the SINE versions soon...
> I get a sneaky suspicion that they might be



Don't they need to port Ark 3+4 over first? I've no idea, but I think the Berlins would take much longer due to content.


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## Kevinside (Nov 24, 2020)

This month is so great for me... Synchron Strings 1 and Pro,SynWW,ConMoto,Afflatus and now the Berlin Orchestra...
I always wanted the Berlin Series, cause the overall sound is so great and the room is perfect...
Unfortunately i must pass on the coming SFA Bf Deals... But i am so happy to have the main package of the Berlin Series...


----------



## Kurosawa (Nov 24, 2020)

Teldex is just so unbelievable good sounding. It has something sweet and intimate about it but still has that sparkling reverb.


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## CaptainEpic3 (Nov 24, 2020)

My bank account:






My bank account doesn't need to worry too much though. As tempting as this seduction attempt is, I believe I have the willpower to control myself  What an offer though - these libraries are very rarely on sale! If I didn't have my heart set on a few other libraries for this week, I'd probably at least grab the woodwinds.


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## Eptesicus (Nov 24, 2020)

Now, you see here we have a problem because i was waiting patiently for CSW, but now Berlin Woodwinds is around the same price as what CSW will be.....

Hm.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 24, 2020)

Hey friends! Just put together a video sharing my thoughts on the Berlin Series, and go through some of the patches to check out the sound and playability. This video isn't sponsored by OT in any way; just wanted to share my personal experiences with the libraries, and hopefully it may help you with your purchasing decisions. Let me know if you have any questions!


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## Drumdude2112 (Nov 24, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Hey friends! Just put together a video sharing my thoughts on the Berlin Series, and go through some of the patches to check out the sound and playability. This video isn't sponsored by OT in any way; just wanted to share my personal experiences with the libraries, and hopefully it may help you with your purchasing decisions. Let me know if you have any questions!





Thanks for doing this Chris .
I'm definitely gonna spring for the woods (weighing the need for the other 2) This may (or may not) be easy to answer , but do you think BB is worth having if one already owns JXL ? (and all the arks for that matter )


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 24, 2020)

Even if they are about to release SINE versions...the libraries are still 50% off and you get the SINE version for free. The deal is fantastic and I'm finding BWW far less flawed than it seemed like it would be before buying it.

Also, fun fact, VSL MIR's Teldex roompack can match up fairly closely with the room sound of BWW with just a couple small adjustments


----------



## Braveheart (Nov 24, 2020)

Still 500$ Canadian dollars for me after conversion, just for the woodwinds. I already have other woodwind libraries, and it’s still a hobby for me, so I’m going to pass on this one, still too expensive.


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 24, 2020)

Drumdude2112 said:


> Thanks for doing this Chris .
> I'm definitely gonna spring for the woods (weighing the need for the other 2) This may (or may not) be easy to answer , but do you think BB is worth having if one already owns JXL ? (and all the arks for that matter )


My pleasure. I'd say it totally depends on your style of writing. The sound of JXL and BB can be made to sound quite similar, so it more comes down to if you need all the individual instruments for part writing, or if you like the existing workflow of JXL already. I would say if you have one, the other is a nice to have, rather than a necessity. But ultimately, if one library contains something the other doesn't, that may also be an incentive to pick it up!


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 24, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Hey friends! Just put together a video sharing my thoughts on the Berlin Series, and go through some of the patches to check out the sound and playability. This video isn't sponsored by OT in any way; just wanted to share my personal experiences with the libraries, and hopefully it may help you with your purchasing decisions. Let me know if you have any questions!




Great vid!
You have a comment on YT re mics


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 24, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Great vid!
> You have a comment on YT re mics


Yessir!


----------



## Drumdude2112 (Nov 24, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> My pleasure. I'd say it totally depends on your style of writing. The sound of JXL and BB can be made to sound quite similar, so it more comes down to if you need all the individual instruments for part writing, or if you like the existing workflow of JXL already. I would say if you have one, the other is a nice to have, rather than a necessity. But ultimately, if one library contains something the other doesn't, that may also be an incentive to pick it up!




All great points Chris...Frankly, No i dont write for individual instruments so maybe BB is overkill for my workflow.
(i do LOVE Jxl overall) Actually the only part of BB REALLY rocking me so far , from what i've heard in walkthroughs ,is the trumpets.
(which is the only part of JXL i dont love) Damn maybe i just wait for BB to port over Sine and get me them trumpets 🎺 lol ...(decisions)


----------



## novaburst (Nov 24, 2020)

Does anyone here do loans


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 24, 2020)

Stupid question, is there no manual?!


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 24, 2020)

Drumdude2112 said:


> All great points Chris...Frankly, No i dont write for individual instruments so maybe BB is overkill for my workflow.
> (i do LOVE Jxl overall) Actually the only part of BB REALLY rocking me so far , from what i've heard in walkthroughs ,is the trumpets.
> (which is the only part of JXL i dont love) Damn maybe i just wait for BB to port over Sine and get me them trumpets 🎺 lol ...(decisions)


Sounds like the best option at this point!


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 24, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> Stupid question, is there no manual?!


Honestly I don't think so, haha!


----------



## novaburst (Nov 24, 2020)

Does any one know the size of these libraries, the brass or the strings


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## shponglefan (Nov 24, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Now, you see here we have a problem because i was waiting patiently for CSW, but now Berlin Woodwinds is around the same price as what CSW will be.....
> 
> Hm.



This is my dilemma as well. Keep holding out for CSW or take the plunge on BW...

I imagine CSW would have a loyalty/bundle discount, since they did the same thing with their other libraries. This could conceivably make CSW the cheaper option overall.


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 24, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Honestly I don't think so, haha!


... WHAT?! lol with so many abbreviated terms and features that are not obviously apparent, a manual truly is a must


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Nov 24, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> Stupid question, is there no manual?!


there are manuals on the website


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## Casiquire (Nov 24, 2020)

novaburst said:


> Does any one know the size of these libraries, the brass or the strings


They're listed on the site under Specs, however the winds are listed as 130gb but the disk space for the install was 320gb so things don't totally add up


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## Casiquire (Nov 24, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> there are manuals on the website


Where?


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 24, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> Where?


I know there are dedicated articulation manuals for each product somewhere, but aside from the older Capsule tutorials on the OT YouTube channel, I haven’t found a manual explaining the inner workings of each library and how to really get the best out of them. 

For me, it’s been a lot of playing around and finding what suits my workflow.


----------



## novaburst (Nov 24, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> They're listed on the site under Specs, however the winds are listed as 130gb but the disk space for the install was 320gb so things don't totally add up



So I guess if you go for this it's a library plus SSD, plus VAT


----------



## RogiervG (Nov 24, 2020)

how temping this is, i am going to pass on it. It's too expensive if you count in added tax.
It's just a hobby at current, and well.. no.. too expensive... must resist...


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 24, 2020)

novaburst said:


> So I guess if you go for this it's a library plus SSD, plus VAT


Well that 320 includes the download space, you could do that onto a flash drive or an external hard drive and then put only the actual install on your SSD. Also i didn't pay any VAT here in the US lol


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## Mike Fox (Nov 24, 2020)

I've also decided to pass. I have way too much strings and brass to justify the purchase, and I rarely use woodwinds (oops, did i say that out loud?  ).

The only thing really appealing at this point is the percussion. But damn, i have too much of that too!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 24, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> ... WHAT?! lol with so many abbreviated terms and features that are not obviously apparent, a manual truly is a must


Maybe check out the helpdesk:





Berlin Series - Orchestral Tools Helpdesk


Common questions and support documentation




orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com


----------



## novaburst (Nov 24, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> your SSD. Also i didn't pay any VAT here in the US lol



Haha UK over here and VAT is big but I guess you still need to consider would you rather pay VAT on the full price, still OTs made the librarys very appealing with this price hope this is a growing trend for Orchestral Tools,


----------



## PaulieDC (Nov 24, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> Where?


I looked and they are not where I used to see them.

No worries, I downloaded them a while ago, but not all, no percussion, sorry... I have BB, BS, BWW, BOI, BOI2 and Time Macro manuals. I popped them is a shared DropBox folder, here you go: https://tinyurl.com/OTUserGuides (OT User Guides (partial set))


----------



## Chungus (Nov 24, 2020)

novaburst said:


> hope this is a growing trend for Orchestral Tools,


Indeed! ...Although I do wish they did this last year. Would've spared me from buying a line-up I'm now almost never going to use.


----------



## jimjazzuk (Nov 24, 2020)

Would be good to hear from people who have bit the bullet with the Woodwinds... let us know what you think!


----------



## Mrmonkey (Nov 24, 2020)

So I already has BBCSO pro, I guess that covers most of the things that Berlin could do? I have the special bows 1 and 2 and like them but they seem to go ok with BBC so I guess I can save my monies?


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## mscp (Nov 24, 2020)

I've literally filled all my SSDs. I'm done for the year. lol.


----------



## lettucehat (Nov 24, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Hey friends! Just put together a video sharing my thoughts on the Berlin Series, and go through some of the patches to check out the sound and playability. This video isn't sponsored by OT in any way; just wanted to share my personal experiences with the libraries, and hopefully it may help you with your purchasing decisions. Let me know if you have any questions!




Thanks for doing this. I'm only interested in Brass and there isn't a lot out there on Youtube really going into depth. I also feel like you weren't that into them and the legatos generally alarmed me, but I am so sold on the fact that they recorded every single player, with so many articulations. Brass is kind of my favorite section, like strings would be for many, so I'm really tempted to have this library because it's so comprehensive. I have my loud dynamics covered by CineBrass, Hollywood, Caspian, etc. but in order to buy this I need to feel like it's the ultimate tool for detailed, truly lifelike brass writing. Would you say the legato is not up to par with its competition in 2020? I'm already semi-burned with Century brass not being as smooth as I expected. Thanks again!


----------



## PaulieDC (Nov 24, 2020)

Phil81 said:


> I've literally filled all my SSDs. I'm done for the year. lol.


Same here, I need to swap one of my 1TB NVMe SSDs for a 2TB in order to fit BBCSO Pro. Problem is, the 2TB NVMe M.2 SSDs are way more than the standard 2TB SATA 2.5", but boy they load faster. I have 6 days to figure this out, lol!


----------



## lettucehat (Nov 24, 2020)

2TBx2 NVMe in RAID as one drive, never thought about storage or speed since putting that together. Jealous of the prices now! I highly recommend forgoing one or two library purchases and doing this.


----------



## Drumdude2112 (Nov 24, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> I've also decided to pass. I have way too much strings and brass to justify the purchase, and I rarely use woodwinds (oops, did i say that out loud?  ).
> 
> The only thing really appealing at this point is the percussion. But damn, i have too much of that too!




Oh GOOD !!!...I needed some 'moral support' on this (as i think i'm gonna pass too ) I need another string library right now like i need a third thumb lol (actually a 3rd thumb seems way more useful ) And i have JXL so BB doesn't bring that much to my world (being i dont write for each instrument like that...i like BB trumpets though...i'll buy em ala carte' when they hit sine) 
And same here i dont use woods THAT much to warrant buying BW right now (the ones i have in BBC , and BBO sound good to me and do nicely ) 
So seems like GAS avoided ...WHEW close call though lol .
Didnt Escape Afflatus though ...That i HAD to have lol .


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 24, 2020)

lettucehat said:


> Thanks for doing this. I'm only interested in Brass and there isn't a lot out there on Youtube really going into depth. I also feel like you weren't that into them and the legatos generally alarmed me, but I am so sold on the fact that they recorded every single player, with so many articulations. Brass is kind of my favorite section, like strings would be for many, so I'm really tempted to have this library because it's so comprehensive. I have my loud dynamics covered by CineBrass, Hollywood, Caspian, etc. but in order to buy this I need to feel like it's the ultimate tool for detailed, truly lifelike brass writing. Would you say the legato is not up to par with its competition in 2020? I'm already semi-burned with Century brass not being as smooth as I expected. Thanks again!


Absolutely. I honestly use around 3-5% of each library at the moment (except winds, which is more like 20%), mainly because I don't use most of the available/extended articulations anyway, plus the patches are on the heavier side compared to something like Cinesamples or Cinematic Studios. 

Although I love with the sound and playability, it's the resources required that make them difficult to use sometimes.


----------



## lettucehat (Nov 24, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Absolutely. I honestly use around 3-5% of each library at the moment (except winds, which is more like 20%), mainly because I don't use most of the available/extended articulations anyway, plus the patches are on the heavier side compared to something like Cinesamples or Cinematic Studios.
> 
> Although I love with the sound and playability, it's the resources required that make them difficult to use sometimes.



Gotcha. So that's an "absolutely" on the legato not being up to par? Strong answer, not sure if I want to place my faith in the Sine port fixing the legato... thanks again.


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 24, 2020)

Drumdude2112 said:


> Oh GOOD !!!...I needed some 'moral support' on this (as i think i'm gonna pass too ) I need another string library right now like i need a third thumb lol (actually a 3rd thumb seems way more useful ) And i have JXL so BB doesn't bring that much to my world (being i dont write for each instrument like that...i like BB trumpets though...i'll buy em ala carte' when they hit sine)
> And same here i dont use woods THAT much to warrant buying BW right now (the ones i have in BBC , and BBO sound good to me and do nicely )
> So seems like GAS avoided ...WHEW close call though lol .
> Didnt Escape Afflatus though ...That i HAD to have lol .



lol you just don't know that he is standing in the line for Spitfire


----------



## Mike Fox (Nov 24, 2020)

Drumdude2112 said:


> Oh GOOD !!!...I needed some 'moral support' on this (as i think i'm gonna pass too ) I need another string library right now like i need a third thumb lol (actually a 3rd thumb seems way more useful ) And i have JXL so BB doesn't bring that much to my world (being i dont write for each instrument like that...i like BB trumpets though...i'll buy em ala carte' when they hit sine)
> And same here i dont use woods THAT much to warrant buying BW right now (the ones i have in BBC , and BBO sound good to me and do nicely )
> So seems like GAS avoided ...WHEW close call though lol .
> Didnt Escape Afflatus though ...That i HAD to have lol .


We GASers need to stick together! United we are!!!


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 24, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> We GASers need to stick together! United we are!!!



In the line for spitfireeeeee lol
This forum is dope!


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 24, 2020)

lettucehat said:


> Gotcha. So that's an "absolutely" on the legato not being up to par? Strong answer, not sure if I want to place my faith in the Sine port fixing the legato... thanks again.


Sorry, I meant you're welcome XD


----------



## Kevinside (Nov 24, 2020)

the adaptive legatos of Berling Strings are sounding awesome...combined with the room of Teldex...
Berlin Strings can do fast runs in a wonderful way. Something, where other string libraries often are failing... There is no perfect library out there, but Berlin can do some tasks,others cannot do...
But the sections in the strings are not big, like SSS... But the size in combination with the room is just perfect...


----------



## Drumdude2112 (Nov 24, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> In the line for spitfireeeeee lol
> This forum is dope!




LMAO 😂


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 24, 2020)

jimjazzuk said:


> Would be good to hear from people who have bit the bullet with the Woodwinds... let us know what you think!


Can't recommend it highly enough so far. The reputation is well earned.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Nov 24, 2020)

I'm in a bit of a quandary with this one. I have Berlin Woodwinds, which I bought in a rare sale a fair while ago, and I later upgraded it to Revive.

When the big 40% sale happened way back when, the timing of it wasn't great for me, and I had to pass. I was pretty annoyed at the time, and I decided that if the opportunity came up again, I wouldn't hesitate.

Now I can add all the three remaining libraries for an even better price, but strangely, I am indeed hesitating.

I've done a few good business deals recently, so its more than affordable, But I do limit myself when it comes to what is essentially a hobby. And there some awesome other fun things out there. I rather fancy the BBCSO Pro. Or I could just throw some money into VSL coupons - as I'm hoping for Synchron Brass & Woodwinds soon.....

In more normal times, I'd just get some plane tickets and take the wife and kids somewhere sunny for Christmas, but Boris tells me that's not on.

It's a bit of a bugger really. Maybe the fact I'm hesitating at all tells me all I need to know.

I'll probably end up blowing it all on high maintenance women....




My wife and daughters will be pleased......


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 24, 2020)

Darn you @ChrisSiuMusic! I'm listening to your play through and those Brass sound really good. I don't need more brass......

Thanks for doing this. It is very helpful. Well, not for my wallet...


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 24, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> I looked and they are not where I used to see them.
> 
> No worries, I downloaded them a while ago, but not all, no percussion, sorry... I have BB, BS, BWW, BOI, BOI2 and Time Macro manuals. I popped them is a shared DropBox folder, here you go: https://tinyurl.com/OTUserGuides (OT User Guides (partial set))


This is amazing, thank you so much!


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 24, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Darn you @ChrisSiuMusic! I'm listening to your play through and those Brass sound really good. I don't need more brass......
> 
> Thanks for doing this. It is very helpful. Well, not for my wallet...


Curse me while you pull out your card, why don't you...


----------



## novaburst (Nov 24, 2020)

One thing i like about the Sale advertisement is the fact that it says 50% meaning half price not like some other sales that say up to 50% where only the product you don't want are 50% but the one you do want has a very little offer going for it.

I lone the colors of the boxes dont you think they can put you in a trance.... TAAaaaaaake my MOooooney oh crap did i just say that !!!!!! 

I will not use my credit card i will not use my credit card i will use pay pal i will use Stoooop

Man those colors doing me in....... let me get out of here


----------



## lettucehat (Nov 24, 2020)

Thank you, finally someone else says it... I'm embarrassed at how much those colors are affecting me. They look like snacks.


----------



## daan1412 (Nov 24, 2020)

Trying hard to resist... but I'm still tempted.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Nov 24, 2020)

daan1412 said:


> Trying hard to resist... but I'm still tempted.



I think it's more like this....


----------



## Kony (Nov 24, 2020)

Also trying to resist but....


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Nov 24, 2020)

just a reminder: this is berlin strings(combined with the A and B expansion)

this contains both runs, as well as the legato from their library. - no other string library is in this, no reverb, just a little EQ for character(mostly on the close mics)


----------



## Marsen (Nov 24, 2020)

...


jimjazzuk said:


> Would be good to hear from people who have bit the bullet with the Woodwinds... let us know what you think!



So after 12hours! of dowloading & installation , i managed to just have a play through several articulations of Flute1 and the english horn, and as far as I can say, this is the best experience, I made with woodwinds.
. 
The download is not 70GB as on OT'S site pointed. It's nearly a 170 GB's just for the woodwinds. 

I have 3 other complete ww libs from main developer's, but this is awesome.
Playability, tone, is just fantastic. But as Chris said, it's heavy on ressources.

This is just my personal experience, noodling around with it by 15 minutes.
So no solid data at all, but i'm already in love, that's for sure.


----------



## Instrugramm (Nov 24, 2020)

The BS legati sound a bit synthie for modern standards but the shorts still seem to be absolutely stellar. I really need to meditate over this purchase, I only just got Afflatus, Rinascimento, Spaghetti Western, Noire and L.A. Sessions. This Black Friday is on fire...


----------



## Marsen (Nov 24, 2020)

lettucehat said:


> Thank you, finally someone else says it... I'm embarrassed at how much those colors are affecting me. They look like snacks.


They are like super tasty birthday cookies right  ?


----------



## borisb2 (Nov 24, 2020)

my current situation:


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 24, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> current situation


What have I done


----------



## lettucehat (Nov 24, 2020)

Don't worry, you've helped some people back away from the ledge as well! Mostly I think Strezov is going to take my Berlin money with his choirs though.


----------



## borisb2 (Nov 24, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> What have I done


At this point I’m not sure anymore 😂😂


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 24, 2020)

Marsen said:


> They are like super tasty birthday cookies right  ?


Girl Scout cookies! Where's the Thin Mints????


----------



## Beans (Nov 24, 2020)

Do you need Berlin Strings? That seems like an easy one.

Do you need those specific, unique techniques? Do you have a computer powerful enough to run them? Are you in love with the tone/hall? 

If the answer to just one of those is "no," then there's your answer. Strings is a competitive space.


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 24, 2020)

Okay, Strings downloaded and installed but is seems there is a problem with some of the samples. I'm retrying with the manual downloads now. The legato patch is working and sounds pretty good. It will even do short runs without a problem. Doesn't do trills well. Fortunately, there is a trill patch.


----------



## borisb2 (Nov 24, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> What have I done


although it would have been nice to elaborate a bit more on why you dont like that much the oboe and english horn in BWW? I am using these in the StaffPad edition and there they really shine


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 24, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> although it would have been nice to elaborate a bit more on why you dont like that much the oboe and english horn in BWW? I am using these in the StaffPad and there they really shine


Sure thing, at least for the legacy version, those 2 were a little honky and nasal to my ears. Not nearly as smooth as Exp B/Soloists 1.


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 24, 2020)

> Do you need Berlin Strings?


Well, I was looking on the Brass, but I wouldn't object the strings... though the woods now seem nice..



> That seems like an easy one.


What does?  



> Do you need those specific, unique techniques?


Do I need any of these? well... its a hobby... a stupid and expensive hobby...
Essentially I don't need any technique at all... so what's your point?!



> Do you have a computer powerful enough to run them?


Well I wouldn't know until I'll have them on my pc now would I?
Strange question...



> Are you in love with the tone/hall?


In love? well I wouldn't go that far... but there are fond and fuzzy feelings I admit



> If the answer to just one of those is "no"


Let me check... I think I'm clean



> then there's your answer


Where?... this feels like a Seinfeld episode... its all in down town



> Strings is a competitive space.


Emm... ok... so?
Man you're not helping!


----------



## Beans (Nov 24, 2020)

The woodwinds really are nice.


----------



## W Ackerman (Nov 24, 2020)

I don't understand why I have to stumble onto a thread in this forum to discover this sale. I have been an OT customer for years. My account profile shows I'm subscribed to their email newsletter. I've checked my spam folders to see if I missed an announcement. Nothing. Did anyone get notified or is this some kind of deliberate attempt by OT to prevent me from giving them more money?


----------



## borisb2 (Nov 24, 2020)

didnt got an email either - but found out the shocking news on VI-C


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 24, 2020)

W Ackerman said:


> I don't understand why I have to stumble onto a thread in this forum to discover this sale. I have been an OT customer for years. My account profile shows I'm subscribed to their email newsletter. I've checked my spam folders to see if I missed an announcement. Nothing. Did anyone get notified or is this some kind of deliberate attempt by OT to prevent me from giving them more money?


It's definitely deliberate. They purposefully did not send out emails so no one would know about this and buy their libraries. They don't want your money in particular!!!


----------



## jbuhler (Nov 24, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> It's definitely deliberate. They purposefully did not send out emails so no one would know about this and buy their libraries. They don't want your money in particular!!!


They are only thinking of us and our wallets in not telling us!


----------



## W Ackerman (Nov 24, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> It's definitely deliberate. They purposefully did not send out emails so no one would know about this and buy their libraries. They don't want your money in particular!!!


Well, their nefarious plan isn't going to work! They will be getting my money. That'll show them!


----------



## borisb2 (Nov 24, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> What have I done


*Thank you for purchasing
Berlin Strings*

.. that's what you have done.


including the visual update:





ok, last graph for today .. back to music


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 24, 2020)

Instrugramm said:


> The BS legati sound a bit synthie for modern standards but the shorts still seem to be absolutely stellar. I really need to meditate over this purchase, I only just got Afflatus, Rinascimento, Spaghetti Western, Noire and L.A. Sessions. This Black Friday is on fire...


I thought the same, until i heard this mockup and others in context and realized that it's a very classical string sound with a quick and direct legato. This mockup is masterfully done and BS handles it fantastically, sounding really authentic


----------



## Raphioli (Nov 24, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> including the visual update:



That circle in the end explains a lot xD


----------



## Instrugramm (Nov 24, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> current situation


I already have Berlin Woodwinds... the need for BS ist actually not justified but... well


Casiquire said:


> I thought the same, until i heard this mockup and others in context and realized that it's a very classical string sound with a quick and direct legato. This mockup is masterfully done and BS handles it fantastically, sounding really authentic



It's rather because of the many articulations why I think this sounds the way it does, still for slow Legato Lines CSS will be better and for fast ones (not runs, which should be played marcato without vibrato anyway) Afflatus actually does a nice job. I still might get Berlin Strings, chances are pretty good actually...


----------



## borisb2 (Nov 25, 2020)

had a quick first spin with BWW .. omg, its ridiculous how good they sound - both Legacy (more upfront) or Revive. All that struggle to find the right legato patch with Claire, the right legato speed and volume setting with CineWinds etc.. its all just gone. You load an oboe-patch and start playing.. done. That's how it should sound.

Instant temptation to ban Claire WW, SStWW and CineWinds to some older hardrives to make space on the SSDs


----------



## Artemi (Nov 25, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> had a quick first spin with BWW .. omg, its ridiculous how good they sound - both Legacy (more upfront) or Revive. All that struggle to find the right legato patch with Claire, the right legato speed and volume setting with CineWinds etc.. its all just gone. You load an oboe-patch and start playing.. done. That's how it should sound.
> 
> Instant temptation to ban Claire WW, SStWW and CineWinds to some older hardrives to make space on the SSDs



so you bought some of the libraries from a recent sale?
you mean there are two versions included with BWW, legacy and revive?
what about strings?


----------



## galactic orange (Nov 25, 2020)

Artemi said:


> what about strings?


Yes. Exactly! What about strings??


----------



## borisb2 (Nov 25, 2020)

bought BWW yesterday. It comes with both legacy (60GB) and Revive (90GB) in one download - hence the 157GB ..

.. strings are downloading


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 25, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> I thought the same, until i heard this mockup and others in context and realized that it's a very classical string sound with a quick and direct legato. This mockup is masterfully done and BS handles it fantastically, sounding really authentic




I must say I didn't like the strings in this one.
Both their place in the mix (too much in your face) and the way they played (they behave unnatural).


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 25, 2020)

Boris I think the Percussion and Brass together is what prevents each from rising up...
I'm just trying to help!


----------



## Marsen (Nov 25, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> had a quick first spin with BWW .. omg, its ridiculous how good they sound - both Legacy (more upfront) or Revive. All that struggle to find the right legato patch with Claire, the right legato speed and volume setting with CineWinds etc.. its all just gone. You load an oboe-patch and start playing.. done. That's how it should sound.
> 
> Instant temptation to ban Claire WW, SStWW and CineWinds to some older hardrives to make space on the SSDs



This!

Exactly same situation here.


----------



## Marsen (Nov 25, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Boris I think the Percussion and Brass together is what prevents each from rising up...
> I'm just trying to help!



I'm waiting for a blue circle!


----------



## NathanTiemeyer (Nov 25, 2020)

For those who own BWW, how good is the legato? 

That's honestly the weak point in a lot of woodwind libraries out there, it least to me. Especially the ones I own, lol. I've truly been spoiled by the performance-based legato found in the incredible libraries by Performance Samples and Musical Sampling ...


----------



## Marsen (Nov 25, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> including the visual update:



I love this red little line named, nobody helped.


----------



## Eptesicus (Nov 25, 2020)

Man, I am so torn .

I really need a good woodwind library, and was waiting for CSW but now this deal pops up and only until the 1st Dec i dont have a clue what to do.

I use CSS and JXL brass as my main string and brass libraries, so for room mixing, it doesn't really matter. I either have brass and wind or strings and wind in the same room. 

I really wish that a bit more information on what will be included in CSW would be forthcoming (ie instruments/ensemble strengths/articulations etc).


----------



## Ashermusic (Nov 25, 2020)

I think if you look at what is in CSB , you probably can make an educated guess as to what will be in CSW.


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## Beans (Nov 25, 2020)

Whether you get along with their libraries or not, it's a remarkably consistent company.


----------



## lgmcben (Nov 25, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Boris I think the Percussion and Brass together is what prevents each from rising up...
> I'm just trying to help!




I finished it for you


----------



## Drumdude2112 (Nov 25, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> bought BWW yesterday. It comes with both legacy (60GB) and Revive (90GB) in one download - hence the 157GB ..
> 
> .. strings are downloading




Do you HAVE to keep both Legacy and Revive installed ?


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 25, 2020)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> For those who own BWW, how good is the legato?
> 
> That's honestly the weak point in a lot of woodwind libraries out there, it least to me. Especially the ones I own, lol. I've truly been spoiled by the performance-based legato found in the incredible libraries by Performance Samples and Musical Sampling ...


It's not necessarily "perfect", but very close to it. There was some talk of rough transitions but they must have been mostly smoothed out since then because I don't seem to have to work around any transitions at all. My other workhorse was VSL's winds which are about as flawless as it can get in terms of legato, and BWW is very close to that level, but the tone and dynamic transitions are much better and the sound straight out of the box is more alive and authentic. It comes at the cost of hard drive space and RAM.



Eptesicus said:


> Man, I am so torn .
> 
> I really need a good woodwind library, and was waiting for CSW but now this deal pops up and only until the 1st Dec i dont have a clue what to do.
> 
> ...


Owning BWW has actually made me more interested in getting CSS. I was just thinking to myself that they'd sound good together and I don't think I'd need to fuss over matching space at all. Is that your experience between CSS and JXL?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 25, 2020)

OT confirmed the crossgrade to revive for legacy BWW owners is not available now (was available until end of 2017 apparently), so if you bought BWW before, they expect you to buy it again it seems. No thanks.


----------



## mscp (Nov 25, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> What have I done



You've made a lot of people happy. That's what you've done, Chris.


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## Marsen (Nov 25, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> OT confirmed the crossgrade to revive for legacy BWW owners is not available now (was available until end of 2017 apparently), so if you bought BWW before, they expect you to buy it again it seems. No thanks.



That's bad.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 25, 2020)

Phil81 said:


> You've made a lot of people happy. That's what you've done, Chris.


I hope so <3


----------



## Kent (Nov 25, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> It's not necessarily "perfect", but very close to it. There was some talk of rough transitions but they must have been mostly smoothed out since then because I don't seem to have to work around any transitions at all. My other workhorse was VSL's winds which are about as flawless as it can get in terms of legato, and BWW is very close to that level, but the tone and dynamic transitions are much better and the sound straight out of the box is more alive and authentic. It comes at the cost of hard drive space and RAM.
> 
> 
> Owning BWW has actually made me more interested in getting CSS. I was just thinking to myself that they'd sound good together and I don't think I'd need to fuss over matching space at all. Is that your experience between CSS and JXL?


look at this: @Casiquire is warming up to wetter libraries! truly, what a time to be alive.


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## Scalms (Nov 25, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Man, I am so torn .
> 
> I really need a good woodwind library, and was waiting for CSW but now this deal pops up and only until the 1st Dec i dont have a clue what to do.
> 
> ...


I'm torn too. I has CSW penciled in for purchase early next year, but the more I'm thinking BWW might take its place. For several reasons....

1) 50% off from OT hard to come by
2) Teldex room sounds better to me than Trackdown
3) BWW you get 2 libraries for the price of one (Legacy and Revive)
4) Articulations will be more for BWW
5) Power of Sine player will be enabled (in the future porting) 
6) CSW coupon will be good forever, so I can buy it a year or two later
7) CSW- some unknowns (e.g., too much vibrato for my taste?)

ANyway, just some of my thoughts, I have a feeling this is a major debate going on for a lot of us. I wish Cinematic Studios would reveal something, maybe just a instruments lineup, something to say what's coming


----------



## Beans (Nov 25, 2020)

Scalms said:


> 1) 50% off from OT hard to come by
> 2) Teldex room sounds better to me than Trackdown
> 3) BWW you get 2 libraries for the price of one (Legacy and Revive)
> 4) Articulations will be more for BWW
> ...



My thought process was similar.

1) Yep.
2) Same.
3) Sort of.
4) Probably.
5) Maybe.
6) Probably.
7) Perhaps.


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 25, 2020)

kmaster said:


> look at this: @Casiquire is warming up to wetter libraries! truly, what a time to be alive.


RIGHT! But there are certainly drawbacks. On the plus side the close mics are plenty dry enough for my taste, and the wet mics blend well with dry libraries through MIR Teldex


----------



## CT (Nov 25, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> RIGHT! But there are certainly drawbacks. On the plus side the close mics are plenty dry enough for my taste, and the wet mics blend well with dry libraries through MIR Teldex



How are the crossfades etc.? Most woodwinds seem to suffer from a nasty clunkiness from that and awkward note transitions that ruin their natural pinpoint detail. Seem to remember this being a particular complaint with BWW.


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## novaburst (Nov 25, 2020)

I think many who are going for this Black friday sale from Orchestral Tools want be saying what a black friday sale i think they will be saying what a great friday


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 25, 2020)

Mike T said:


> How are the crossfades etc.? Most woodwinds seem to suffer from a nasty clunkiness from that and awkward note transitions that ruin their natural pinpoint detail. Seem to remember this being a particular complaint with BWW.


It depends on the note and the microphone positions, but i haven't found them too problematic. They're smoother than VI-version VSL which has been my benchmark for comparison. In the legatos, the best instruments are the ones with three layers because if there's an awkward transition, you are better equipped to just bump up or down a little and avoid hearing it, but unfortunately most of them seem to only have two layers. Overall though I've accepted some level of transition bumps as part of life.



novaburst said:


> I think many who are going for this Black friday sale from Orchestral Tools want be saying what a black friday sale i think they will be saying what a great friday


----------



## borisb2 (Nov 25, 2020)

Drumdude2112 said:


> Do you HAVE to keep both Legacy and Revive installed ?


no you dont - but it really feels like having 2 different libraries - so its great to have both options


Mike T said:


> How are the crossfades etc.?


with legacy - being more upfront - you hear a tiny bit more transitions, but its still perfectly manageable in my opinion. Revive sounds smooth as butter, at the "cost" of being more embedded into the room .. great to have both


----------



## Marsen (Nov 25, 2020)

You can´t complain of the Woodwind package. I guess at this price, it´s a rare offer.
The 2 dynamic layer legatos are even more organic to me, then the 3 dyn´s are.

It´s kind of a surprise, as it shows that sometimes "much" doesn´t help much.
I guess, the less crossfades you have, the more natural it can be.

No library is perfect, that´s for sure. But for me, this are the woodwinds, I was looking at. 
But I have to add the missing ones for the moment with other libraries, as I really love Bass Clarinets, Contrabass Clarinets & Contrabassoons.


----------



## Eptesicus (Nov 25, 2020)

Scalms said:


> I'm torn too. I has CSW penciled in for purchase early next year, but the more I'm thinking BWW might take its place. For several reasons....
> 
> 1) 50% off from OT hard to come by
> 2) Teldex room sounds better to me than Trackdown
> ...



Agree on most of your points. Although the "power of SINE" is questionable from my experience with JXL brass. It has some cool features and cpu footprint is amazing. Stability and overall dodginess/buginess leaves a lot to be desired though....and really that is the most important thing above anything esle for me.

The main point here is perhaps point 6. Could just get BWW for now and then could get CSW at any point in the next year or two to add to the palette if needed.

I think what i would really like to know is whether CSW will be single instruments like BWW or just 1 solo and then ensembles of 2 (or 3)?

The other annoying thing about BWW is that there is no contra, but then i guess there is no guarantee that CSW will feature one either.


I know it isnt the way they usually operate, but if i was Cinematic Studio, i might consider releasing some prelimnary information about what is inlcuded in CSW whilst this OT sale is going on, because i can see the potential for a lot of lost sales, myself included, from people who might get BWW instead (especially during the new release window).


----------



## lettucehat (Nov 25, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Agreed. for the most part. Although the "power of SINE" is questionable from my experience with JXL brass. It has some cool features and cpu footprint is amazing. Stability and overall dodginess/buginess leaves a lot to be desired though....



Agree from everything I've heard. There is a temptation to imagine some of the dated legato, like in Berlin Brass or Strings, will be fixed with these things they can do with Sine, but then even in audio demos of their own products, OT has some pretty underwhelming transitions in JXL. And I don't even know about any usability issues. This is one of the things that has held me back upon coming to my senses. I very much want the super exhaustive Berlin libraries to be the alpha and omega of orchestral libraries but other than Woodwinds I can't say they are up to the competition in legato, and I can't count on Sine to just fix this.


----------



## David Kudell (Nov 25, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> had a quick first spin with BWW .. omg, its ridiculous how good they sound - both Legacy (more upfront) or Revive. All that struggle to find the right legato patch with Claire, the right legato speed and volume setting with CineWinds etc.. its all just gone. You load an oboe-patch and start playing.. done. That's how it should sound.
> 
> Instant temptation to ban Claire WW, SStWW and CineWinds to some older hardrives to make space on the SSDs


Yes they are so good. And I hate to even bring it up right now but the BWW solo woodwinds expansion is one of my favorite libraries from any developer.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 25, 2020)

David how would you compare BWW to SWW?


----------



## Scalms (Nov 25, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Agree on most of your points. Although the "power of SINE" is questionable from my experience with JXL brass. It has some cool features and cpu footprint is amazing. Stability and overall dodginess/buginess leaves a lot to be desired though....and really that is the most important thing above anything esle for me.
> 
> The main point here is perhaps point 6. Could just get BWW for now and then could get CSW at any point in the next year or two to add to the palette if needed.
> 
> ...





lettucehat said:


> Agree from everything I've heard. There is a temptation to imagine some of the dated legato, like in Berlin Brass or Strings, will be fixed with these things they can do with Sine, but then even in audio demos of their own products, OT has some pretty underwhelming transitions in JXL. And I don't even know about any usability issues. This is one of the things that has held me back upon coming to my senses. I very much want the super exhaustive Berlin libraries to be the alpha and omega of orchestral libraries but other than Woodwinds I can't say they are up to the competition in legato, and I can't count on Sine to just fix this.



Good points one and all. I think we can agree CSW will be the omega of legato, the question is whether BWW will be good enough, it's the downside I suppose with getting this library. I think I put OT legatos on par with Spitfire (very decent but not Cinematic Studios quality), they are the next tier down. One difference I like about OT compared to Cinematic Series, is you can tweak a bunch of settings. For CSS, for example, the amount of tinkering you can do is limited. With OT, you can disable dynamic layers, change attack/release, etc. But for me the ultimate kicker is the tone and space of BWW is awesome, and I'm hoping CSW will give my ear the same sparkle. While I enjoy CSS and CSB they have disappointed me somewhat with some of their issues (close mics sound poor, the releases for CSS sound weird when playing poly, CSB dynamics jump to FF too quickly, among other issues) But the awesome legato is worth it, and will probably be worth it for CSW. Decisions Decisions..


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## Scalms (Nov 25, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> Yes they are so good. And I hate to even bring it up right now but the BWW solo woodwinds expansion is one of my favorite libraries from any developer.


Is the expansion set really that much more expressive than the main library? or just a different recordings in a smaller space (different room at Teldex)?


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## David Kudell (Nov 25, 2020)

Scalms said:


> Is the expansion set really that much more expressive than the main library? or just a different recordings in a smaller space (different room at Teldex)?


It's just the way they're recorded...BWW is recorded in the orchestra seating positions and are meant to blend in with the other sections. The soloists were recorded in a booth and are designed for when you want the instrument to stand out as a soloist.


----------



## JonS (Nov 25, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> I hope so <3


I’m guessing that at some point Orchestral Tools records a completely new set of traditional orchestra libraries once they have blown out their main collection enough times.


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## David Kudell (Nov 25, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> David how would you compare BWW to SWW?


You can't go wrong with either one.


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## borisb2 (Nov 25, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> And I hate to even bring it up right now but the BWW solo woodwinds expansion is one of my favorite libraries from any developer.


they are great indeed .. using BWW EXP A all the time - just sometimes they behave (by nature) a bit too lyrical for certain content - but having now the combo of BWW with these expansions feels really like I can close the book on WW-libraries for now .. any missing contras can easily be added from other libraries


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## Beans (Nov 25, 2020)

I almost picked up Soloists 1 before BWW went on sale (at which point I picked up BWW).

Do the expansions ever go on sale? I'm not in a rush, but I'm really pleased with my first few hours with BWW. 

I don't think I have a favorite strings library or a favorite brass library, but these are definitely my favorite woodwinds.


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## coprhead6 (Nov 25, 2020)

They had an expansion sale in the summer of 2017 or 2018 as I recall. That's the only one I've seen.


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## Scalms (Nov 25, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> They had an expansion sale in the summer of 2017 or 2018 as I recall. That's the only one I've seen.


That means they are due for one this Christmas!


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## dzilizzi (Nov 25, 2020)

Scalms said:


> That means they are due for one this Christmas!


Yeah, we wish......


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## Raphioli (Nov 26, 2020)

Scalms said:


> I think I put OT legatos on par with Spitfire (very decent but not Cinematic Studios quality), they are the next tier down.



I agree with this.

Regarding legatos, both OT and Spitfire are at a similar level.
SINE might fix the bumpiness in the volume of the transitions, but it doesn't mean their legato will suddenly become next-gen. They probably need to re-record every legato transition *in a different way.*
Like Paul Thomson was saying in another thread, that they are working on different recording/sampling methods to improve their legato transitions.
The top runner at least to me in terms of legato right now, are Cinematic Studios and Performance Samples (possibly Strezov's Afflatus, but I don't own it so I can't speak for that, just listened to demos and walkthroughs).

With that said, I think the strength of OT libraries right now are the comprehensive articulations and the consistency of them across the board .


----------



## Marsen (Nov 26, 2020)

I have a question regarding to the Berlin Strings, which some owners like @ChrisSiuMusic may can answer?

In some walkthroughs, I see an ensemble folder but on the OT site, if you look at the instruments listed, there are just the sections.
So, do they come with ensemble patches?


----------



## Rudankort (Nov 26, 2020)

Marsen said:


> So, do they come with ensemble patches?



In my installation I can see ensemble patches, but only 4 articulations:
01. Whole Ensemble Sustains Imm.nki
02. Whole Ensemble Sustains Soft.nki
03. Whole Ensemble Spiccato.nki
04. Whole Ensemble Pizzicato.nki


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## Instrugramm (Nov 26, 2020)

Raphioli said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> Regarding legatos, both OT and Spitfire are at a similar level.
> SINE might fix the bumpiness in the volume of the transitions, but it doesn't mean their legato will suddenly become next-gen. They probably need to re-record every legato transition *in a different way.*
> ...


I concur that CSS and Afflatus are probably the current cream of the crop in that regard.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 26, 2020)

Marsen said:


> I have a question regarding to the Berlin Strings, which some owners like @ChrisSiuMusic may can answer?
> 
> In some walkthroughs, I see an ensemble folder but on the OT site, if you look at the instruments listed, there are just the sections.
> So, do they come with ensemble patches?


Yes, ensemble patches are available for several articulations (sustain, spiccato, pizz, etc)


----------



## coprhead6 (Nov 26, 2020)

*[MODERATOR NOTE: Image deleted to protect member's details]*


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## Raphioli (Nov 26, 2020)

*@coprhead6*
You should alter that image before uploading.
It has your download code or whatever clearly visible.

Edit: Reported to mods since coprhead6 hasn't responded.
Thx mods!


----------



## coprhead6 (Nov 26, 2020)

Lol oops


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 26, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> Lol oops



What did you try to show anyway?


----------



## coprhead6 (Nov 26, 2020)

There we go. Just showing off that I bought BWW and my crazy new download speeds  
Now my download code isn't showing, haha


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## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 26, 2020)

Instrugramm said:


> I concur that CSS and Afflatus are probably the current cream of the crop in that regard.


I would say CSS and Con Moto have the most believable legato transitions, though Con Moto is bowed legato only.


----------



## TintoL (Nov 26, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> OT confirmed the crossgrade to revive for legacy BWW owners is not available now (was available until end of 2017 apparently), so if you bought BWW before, they expect you to buy it again it seems. No thanks.




ARE YOU FOR REAL!!!!!!

So, we could say that once they move this thing to SINE we might be asked to buy it again? 

Or even have a deadline to buy it again or you will miss the boat?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 26, 2020)

TintoL said:


> ARE YOU FOR REAL!!!!!!
> 
> So, we could say that once they move this thing to SINE we might be asked to buy it again?
> 
> Or even have a deadline to buy it again or you will miss the boat?



Judging by past actions, probably.


----------



## TintoL (Nov 26, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Judging by past actions, probably.


This makes me think twice about this investment....Thanks for the answer.


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## TintoL (Nov 26, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Judging by past actions, probably.



I had to find out. So, here is the answer: Y*ou will have to pay 10% of the original cost of the library. Which I am guessing it will not be the price of the black friday pricing. That will be around $70 plus Vat I guess. *That sounds fair to me. 

This has been taken from the support page of OT:

*Can I still buy a Kontakt-based version of existing SINE-based collections?*
Yes, you can. If you decide later you would like to use it in SINE, there will be a small fee to support this. This upgrade fee is around 10% of the regular collection price—we need the fee to cover the doubled costs for downloads and licensing.

*If I own an existing collection already, will I have to buy it again for SINE?*
No—the SINE versions of existing collections are free for anyone who already owns the collection, as long as the purchase was before that particular collection was ported to SINE. If you purchase a Kontakt version after the respective collection is available in SINE, you will need to pay a crossgrade fee.

In case anyone cares about this info.....


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 26, 2020)

TintoL said:


> I had to find out. So, here is the answer: Y*ou will have to pay 10% of the original cost of the library. Which I am guessing it will not be the price of the black friday pricing. That will be around $70 plus Vat I guess. *That sounds fair to me.
> 
> This has been taken from the support page of OT:
> 
> ...



They also offered a crossgrade to Revive - and now they don't. So who knows how they'll change their minds in the future.


----------



## borisb2 (Nov 26, 2020)

so in case somebody is still interested in memory usage with Berlin Strings:

I started integrating it into my template:
violins1 BS legato-patch (Tree and Concertmaster mic): 1.53GB
violins1 BS longs (custom patch with 8 articulations, only tree mic): 1.43 GB
violins1 BS shorts (custom patch with 8 articulations, only tree mic): 0.67 GB

so in total 3.63 GB for 17 articulations (but only 1 mic) .. if you cull some articulations but add another mic you will be ending up at roughly the same I suppose <4 GB .. so to me thats not thaaaat bad (having 64gb)

in comparison using CSS layered with CSSS I have in my template (using Close and Main Mics - dont like Mix):
violins1 CSS 1.55 GB
violins1 CSSS 1.56 GB .. which is in total 3.11 GB for 11 articulations

Hope that helps


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## Confuzzly (Nov 26, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> They also offered a crossgrade to Revive - and now they don't. So who knows how they'll change their minds in the future.



As a long time BWW legacy owner, I am as upset as anyone regarding their decision to not have a permanent crossgrade. However, when Revive was released, they clearly stated on their website that the crossgrade price was going to end at a particular date. They never "changed their mind" or anything like that.

I distinctly remember this because I was quite annoyed by the decision to not have a permanent crossgrade price. I couldn't afford it back then, so I knew that meant I may just never own it. Three years later, and I still do not own Revive even though I wouldn't mind having it. I just cannot justify spending so much more than the 199 Euros that the crossgrade price once was.

I still do not understand the decision. I don't see how anyone, including OT, benefits from it. But that's just the way it is.


----------



## Toecutter (Nov 27, 2020)

Confuzzly said:


> As a long time BWW legacy owner, I am as upset as anyone regarding their decision to not have a permanent crossgrade. However, when Revive was released, they clearly stated on their website that the crossgrade price was going to end at a particular date. They never "changed their mind" or anything like that.
> 
> I distinctly remember this because I was quite annoyed by the decision to not have a permanent crossgrade price. I couldn't afford it back then, so I knew that meant I may just never own it. Three years later, and I still do not own Revive even though I wouldn't mind having it. I just cannot justify spending so much more than the 199 Euros that the crossgrade price once was.
> 
> I still do not understand the decision. I don't see how anyone, including OT, benefits from it. But that's just the way it is.


Don't sweat about it, legacy is far superior in my opinion.


----------



## j3tman (Nov 27, 2020)

There was an earlier comment in here asking about comparisons between BWW and Infinite Woodwinds... any further opinions on this? I love the sound of BWW from the demos, and I think I like it better than Infinite (although those sound great too). In practice, however, I notice I tend to reach for the instruments that are easiest to wrangle good sounds out of fairly quickly without a ton of extra fiddling or patch browsing. Can anyone comment on the usability of BWW compared to Infinite?


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## dzilizzi (Nov 27, 2020)

j3tman said:


> There was an earlier comment in here asking about comparisons between BWW and Infinite Woodwinds... any further opinions on this? I love the sound of BWW from the demos, and I think I like it better than Infinite (although those sound great too). In practice, however, I notice I tend to reach for the instruments that are easiest to wrangle good sounds out of fairly quickly without a ton of extra fiddling or patch browsing. Can anyone comment on the usability of BWW compared to Infinite?


I don't have IW. I'm a little mixed about it because it is based on velocity and if your keyboard doesn't read velocity well (or you have fingers like mine that hurt if you hit the keys too hard), it is hard to change articulations. Cinewinds is similar and I have issues playing it. That said, BWW has keyswitches/individual articulations, which can be a pain to play, but may be easier to program. 

And I am not an expert....


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## Marsen (Nov 28, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I don't have IW. I'm a little mixed about it because it is based on velocity and if your keyboard doesn't read velocity well (or you have fingers like mine that hurt if you hit the keys too hard), it is hard to change articulations. Cinewinds is similar and I have issues playing it. That said, BWW has keyswitches/individual articulations, which can be a pain to play, but may be easier to program.
> 
> And I am not an expert....



In terms of Cinewinds, you can change that easily to keyswitches.


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## galactic orange (Nov 28, 2020)

Yes, but what about the strings?


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## dzilizzi (Nov 28, 2020)

Marsen said:


> In terms of Cinewinds, you can change that easily to keyswitches.


I wouldn't mind switching it to sliders, but I think I need a manual because I tried to do that and it didn't seem to work. I will try keyswitches next.


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## Marsen (Nov 28, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I wouldn't mind switching it to sliders, but I think I need a manual because I tried to do that and it didn't seem to work. I will try keyswitches next.


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## Marsen (Nov 28, 2020)

Downloading Berlin Brass right now!


Looking for other BF Deals...


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## arpegiah (Nov 28, 2020)

To bad you can not add more than one library at the time to purchase. In my case to benefit for 0% interest for 12 months i will have to spend minimum $1000. If i purchase one library at the time i will not get that, so disappointed.....Contacted the customer service and told me its not possible....


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## dzilizzi (Nov 28, 2020)

Thank you @Marsen!


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## Hendrixon (Nov 28, 2020)

Anyone with both SWW and BWW can compare the two?
I have EWHO woods, but only the flutes are nice there.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 28, 2020)

Still debating on the Brass. Been watching a lot of comparison videos. I'm a bit of a completionist in that I want libraries that will go together without a lot of fuss. So what brass libraries go with BS and BWW? I have Cinebrass, SSB (which I think might be too wet) and HWB (which I always forget I own because it is not Kontakt). I've spent too much this BF due to unexpected sales. And I bought some classes that I probably need more than things like brass. There's also a little FOMO, as this is rarely on sale.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 28, 2020)

I just got Cinebarss complete, and will get BB.
They go well together... in John Powell's template... so... they go well together


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## shponglefan (Nov 28, 2020)

Well, this just happened... that 50% off was just too much to resist.


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## Marsen (Nov 28, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Still debating on the Brass. Been watching a lot of comparison videos. I'm a bit of a completionist in that I want libraries that will go together without a lot of fuss. So what brass libraries go with BS and BWW? I have Cinebrass, SSB (which I think might be too wet) and HWB (which I always forget I own because it is not Kontakt). I've spent too much this BF due to unexpected sales. And I bought some classes that I probably need more than things like brass. There's also a little FOMO, as this is rarely on sale.



I´m aware, this is a german review, but just go to 25:14.

This sold me on the brass! Also some examples on the Solo Horns.
I know, I´m no help for your wallet. I´m sorry.


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 28, 2020)

shponglefan said:


> Well, this just happened... that 50% off was just too much to resist.



I saw the epic list of your purchases in another thread, and now you've added these too ?

Crikey.


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## Marsen (Nov 28, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Anyone with both SWW and BWW can compare the two?
> I have EWHO woods, but only the flutes are nice there.



I´m not sure what SWW means. SSW?


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## dzilizzi (Nov 28, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Anyone with both SWW and BWW can compare the two?


Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds are much more wet. I'm not really great at this stuff, but I find I use SSW more than BWW. I like the wet room more and can find it easier for some reason. But, BWW does sound good. SSW has solos and A2 sections, whereas, BWW has what looks like single players that need to be stacked? They sound like sections more than single players loudness-wise. Kontakt just crashed on me so this is hard to compare. 

Biggest difference is that SSW has more instruments than BWW. You have to buy the extended versions to get the Alto Flute, bass clarinet, contrabass clarinet and contrabassoon that come with SSW.


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## shponglefan (Nov 28, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> I saw the epic list of your purchases in another thread, and now you've added these too ?
> 
> Crikey.



Yeah, admittedly this BF has been a bit over the top. Although I tend to go long stretches without buying much and then pick up a whole bunch of new things at once.

These will certainly me occupied for the next year!


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 28, 2020)

It might take that long to download it all....


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## dzilizzi (Nov 28, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> It might take that long to download it all....


Had to download the Strings twice because there was an error and samples couldn't be found. Now almost 2 days to do BBCSO Strings and winds. I started yesterday morning on the Brass and Percussion. 


I need to plug my studio computer into my router. This wifi is way too slow. Though since COVID started, the usual 3pm slowdown on my FIOS starts at 8 am aka people are home and the gamers/movie streamers start early.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 28, 2020)

Marsen said:


> I´m not sure what SWW means. SSW?



Yea SSW


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## Marsen (Nov 28, 2020)

Ok, I like BWW over SWW.
The Legatos and shorts too are much better. I mean SSW isn´t bad at all. It also has more instruments but...anyway.

Also I Love Teldex over Lyndhurst Air sound. This is just personal taste, for how Spitfire had recorded it.
The Mic range don´t let me get a more controllable sound as I get with Berlin Series.
Close Mics sound much better on Teldex.
Spitfire has changed that on AR1. I think they got it right on this one and I really love the Mic Variations, sp. the close.

If close mics are suffering liveliness, you can´t control the room.
The BWW are so playable and full of live and character.
For me, it´s just best Woodwinds, I ever put my fingers at. But this just my opinion.
If you love the sound too, go for it.


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## shponglefan (Nov 28, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Had to download the Strings twice because there was an error and samples couldn't be found. Now almost 2 days to do BBCSO Strings and winds. I started yesterday morning on the Brass and Percussion.



Yikes, I do not relish downloading this stuff twice.

Hopefully it's faster than downloading through Native Access. Just spent the past 24 hours trying to download Symphobia 4.


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## Casiquire (Nov 28, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds are much more wet. I'm not really great at this stuff, but I find I use SSW more than BWW. I like the wet room more and can find it easier for some reason. But, BWW does sound good. SSW has solos and A2 sections, whereas, BWW has what looks like single players that need to be stacked? They sound like sections more than single players loudness-wise. Kontakt just crashed on me so this is hard to compare.
> 
> Biggest difference is that SSW has more instruments than BWW. You have to buy the extended versions to get the Alto Flute, bass clarinet, contrabass clarinet and contrabassoon that come with SSW.


The Alto flute is included 😊


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## Instrugramm (Nov 28, 2020)

I've had BWW for quite some time and it's definitely worth its price, it's can also easily be combined with Cinewinds. IMO Berlin Woodwinds and JXL Brass are the best OT libraries I own. (I'll probably get Berlin Strings now but I doubt they'll take the lead.)


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## dzilizzi (Nov 28, 2020)

It's funny, when I'm using them in a mix, I tend to use SSW, partially because I really like the alto flute. but when I just compared them? BWW does sound better just playing it.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 28, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> The Alto flute is included 😊


In BWW? I don't see one. I could be missing something, but it is not in the main BWW library I have.


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## shponglefan (Nov 28, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> In BWW? I don't see one. I could be missing something, but it is not in the main BWW library I have.



It's listed in the main BWW instruments on the site.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 28, 2020)

shponglefan said:


> It's listed in the main BWW instruments on the site.


You're right. How did I keep missing it? Ah, okay, I was in the legacy and thought I was in the revive. Legacy only has 3 flutes, a piccolo flute and flutes 8va.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 28, 2020)

Instrugramm said:


> I've had BWW for quite some time and it's definitely worth its price, it's can also easily be combined with Cinewinds. IMO Berlin Woodwinds and JXL Brass are the best OT libraries I own. (I'll probably get Berlin Strings now but I doubt they'll take the lead.)



I actually thought to get JXL if it was on sale this year end... never even thought about a Berlin option cause it's usually isn't discounted, or not in that level. now that it did? I can't stop thinking about John Powell's template LOL
And with Cine doing 60% off bundles yesterday, the ball started rolling

What strings are your go too that you think BS won't dethrone? and why they won't?


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## Hendrixon (Nov 28, 2020)

Marsen said:


> This is just personal taste, for how Spitfire had recorded it.
> The Mic range don´t let me get a more controllable sound as I get with Berlin Series.
> Close Mics sound much better on Teldex.
> ......
> If close mics are suffering liveliness, you can´t control the room.



That's my main gripe with a lot of libs, the close mics are usually crap.
Its like they shove the mics into the instrument and keep going into the players throat!
You get just buzz and scratchy overtones... or the bowels of the first chair
And they also pan them many times hard left/right... for god's sake its a close mic... it doesn't need to have situ


Sorry, its 2:30AM here and I just figured you guys cost me more money!
Yes its a great sale, but man, that John Powell's template is expensive, and he makes money from this shit while I just piss money left and right like I'm about to score the next Batman
The closest thing I'll score will probably be the Bathroom lol


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## dzilizzi (Nov 28, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> That's my main gripe with a lot of libs, the close mics are usually crap.
> Its like they shove the mics into the instrument and keep going into the players throat!
> You get just buzz and scratchy overtones... or the bowels of the first chair
> And they also pan them many times hard left/right... for god's sake its a close mic... it doesn't need to have situ
> ...


Okay, I am done. I broke down. The espressivo longs on Violins I sounded so good, I thought if the brass sounds this good, I am in..... 

No more libraries. I need to stop looking. I spend way too much on this stuff. But I guess it is more usable than another (4th) pair of black shoes with a matching purse that I won't use because it is easier to use the purse that is already got everything in it.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 28, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Okay, I am done. I broke down. The espressivo longs on Violins I sounded so good, I thought if the brass sounds this good, I am in.....
> 
> No more libraries. I need to stop looking. I spend way too much on this stuff. But I guess it is more usable than another (4th) pair of black shoes with a matching purse that I won't use because it is easier to use the purse that is already got everything in it.



You bought berlin strings? how are they?
So you got the whole berlin set?


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## dzilizzi (Nov 28, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> You bought berlin strings? how are they?
> So you got the whole berlin set?


No percussion. I like the Strings. I haven't had time to really play them, but I was playing through some individual articulations and fell in love with the sound of the Espressivo Longs. They sound better than the legatos to me. There are 3 different legatos that take forever to load. Forever. I will have to try them when I'm not downloading other things. I've found much as I think my computer can multitask, it can only do so much at one time.


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## Casiquire (Nov 28, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> No percussion. I like the Strings. I haven't had time to really play them, but I was playing through some individual articulations and fell in love with the sound of the Espressivo Longs. They sound better than the legatos to me. There are 3 different legatos that take forever to load. Forever. I will have to try them when I'm not downloading other things. I've found much as I think my computer can multitask, it can only do so much at one time.


I'm very jealous. I'm curious about the strings, and especially how they blend with the rest of the series, but I have my strings covered and they don't offer divisi which is big for me so I'm mixed. Plus MSS will have sul tasto legato included and I'm already probably going to get it


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## dzilizzi (Nov 28, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> I'm very jealous. I'm curious about the strings, and especially how they blend with the rest of the series, but I have my strings covered and they don't offer divisi which is big for me so I'm mixed. Plus MSS will have sul tasto legato included and I'm already probably going to get it


What's MSS? Soaring Strings? I like Musical Sampling and Performance Samples, but they are very limited and you have to somehow match them if you want to write a full piece of music. 

Eventually, I may get Cinematic Studios, but I am curious as to how the winds will sound. Generally, they are the hardest to do. Which is why I got BWW two years ago.


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## Raphioli (Nov 28, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> What's MSS?



MSS is Modern Scoring Strings. Audiobros new string library. (basically LASS3)


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## Christopher Rocky (Nov 28, 2020)

So hear me out if I can reason with you about some GAS anonymous group therapy

Its a very curios time with this many libraries on sale but after consolidating for so long about Berlin series, I'm thinking I'm going to pass as I'm going to bet that NI will have a bundle sale at some point in the coming years, I'm a patient man and already have so many libraries (you might be in the same boat?) So if I'm going to jump in headfirst into Berlin, I'm ready to pay for all of them bundled, but even at this price it is a big ask considering the competition (and exchange rate!) why don't OT do bundles?!

the most tempting for me is BWW, I've been doing long comparisons with SSW,SSSW, BBSCO and Cinewinds. I find spitfires woodwinds libraries sound much more orchestraly situated. in that they fit in the room already with the sound expecting you to have strings, brass and perc along with it, its not up front and personal, for which I use cinewinds, at the same time I don't think BWW is meant for this, The sheer amount of content that comes with SA woods it is just silly for me to get another orchestral woodwinds lib. I'm also betting on cinematic studio winds will come out in the next few years, which will add quality AND value (big emphasis on the value)

Also coming up is Modern Scoring Strings, The ostinato and runs programming sounds very compelling, I'm hoping its the kind of future gen string libraries we all want, which is bringing me to the idea that the Berlin series is quite an expensive library along with being a little older, which is why I think NI might do bundled sale at some point like with other OT libs.

I'm very proud of myself that I have not let GAS get the better of me in this situation (but it has in others this BF BELIEVE ME)
So if your on the fence like me, these are my thoughts you may relate to,
but those of you who scooped them up, my hat goes of to you friend, enjoy them.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 28, 2020)

Christopher Rocky said:


> So hear me out if I can reason with you about some GAS anonymous group therapy
> 
> Its a very curios time with this many libraries on sale but after consolidating for so long about Berlin series, I'm thinking I'm going to pass as I'm going to bet that NI will have a bundle sale at some point in the coming years, I'm a patient man and already have so many libraries (you might be in the same boat?) So if I'm going to jump in headfirst into Berlin, I'm ready to pay for all of them bundled, but even at this price it is a big ask considering the competition (and exchange rate!) why don't OT do bundles?!
> 
> ...


A bundle deal only makes sense if you don't own any. And you will likely have to buy the whole thing. The standard has been 65% off the bundle and 50% off the individual libraries. If these are already NKS compatible, it is unlikely they will do this one. 

For me, as an owner of BWW since 2018, I likely wouldn't have saved any money.


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## Christopher Rocky (Nov 28, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> A bundle deal only makes sense if you don't own any. And you will likely have to buy the whole thing. The standard has been 65% off the bundle and 50% off the individual libraries. If these are already NKS compatible, it is unlikely they will do this one.
> 
> For me, as an owner of BWW since 2018, I likely wouldn't have saved any money.


Yes that's why I mentioned the NI idea, I would want to jump in if i could get it bundled, which is what I'm going to wait for (on the odd chance it will) and is why its a pass from me. 
but why is it unlikely if it is NKS compatible?


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## jbuhler (Nov 28, 2020)

I'd be very surprised if we see another sale on the main Berlin libraries before they are ported to Sine. I mean, who knows for sure, because I don't have a good sense of what work OT needs to do on these libraries to get them ready for Sine, but I would be surprised if they are not ported sometime next year. And I seem to recall on one of these threads that OT said that they would likely not be discounted deeply when they are ported to Sine. So that means now is likely the best price that will be available for these libraries. I do think we might see sales on the expansions in the coming months.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 28, 2020)

Christopher Rocky said:


> Yes that's why I mentioned the NI idea, I would want to jump in if i could get it bundled, which is what I'm going to wait for (on the odd chance it will) and is why its a pass from me.
> but why is it unlikely if it is NKS compatible?


The NI sales are to announce new libraries that have been made NKS compatible. The repeat sales have either added new NKS libraries or just repeated the former sales. At least that has been my understanding based on the announcements.


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## Christopher Rocky (Nov 28, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> The NI sales are to announce new libraries that have been made NKS compatible. The repeat sales have either added new NKS libraries or just repeated the former sales. At least that has been my understanding based on the announcements.


But with OT that hasn't been the case? they have sold them with discounts twice now just in the last 12 months. 
BTW i'm not discrediting this as a great sale! but rather another line of thought around it, it was a very hard decision to not to jump in, heck still is hard decision with 2 days left! I really had to take stock this time with everything I use, compare the benefits etc...


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## easyrider (Nov 29, 2020)

I have All the Spitfire Symphonic's....do I need OT?


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## RogiervG (Nov 29, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I have All the Spitfire Symphonic's....do I need OT?


ofcourse not


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## Marsen (Nov 29, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I have All the Spitfire Symphonic's....do I need OT?



Yes.*



* don't trust a guy, downloading in right this moment Berlin Percussion


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## Hendrixon (Nov 29, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I have All the Spitfire Symphonic's....do I need OT?



Start by asking your self "do I need SSO?".
If the answer is no, then you don't need Berlin, so you should buy it.


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## mcalis (Nov 29, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I have All the Spitfire Symphonic's....do I need OT?


Technically, all you need is a piano, pencil and paper. So no, you don't need it. Buying stuff does not equal progress. If you need a cure for GAS: go listen to the demo's or walkthroughs of products you already own. Just look at what Mr. Blaney can do with Spitfire Symphonic - that's the bar of what's possible with what you already have.

With any new product what you get is more options. Sometimes more options is great. Sometimes having more options is extremely stifling because it hampers your decision making. Instead of writing a melody for horns, you end up spending 30 minutes playing around with 5 different horns from different libraries and your original idea gets totally lost.

Not only that, but you also take away from yourself the opportunity to intimately learn one tool. What's preferable for hammering nails; owning five immaculate hammers, or having one scuffed hammer that you've used for over a year and know how to hit nails with?


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## easyrider (Nov 29, 2020)

mcalis said:


> Technically, all you need is a piano, pencil and paper. So no, you don't need it. Buying stuff does not equal progress. If you need a cure for GAS: go listen to the demo's or walkthroughs of products you already own. Just look at what Mr. Blaney can do with Spitfire Symphonic - that's the bar of what's possible with what you already have.
> 
> With any new product what you get is more options. Sometimes more options is great. Sometimes having more options is extremely stifling because it hampers your decision making. Instead of writing a melody for horns, you end up spending 30 minutes playing around with 5 different horns from different libraries and your original idea gets totally lost.
> 
> Not only that, but you also take away from yourself the opportunity to intimately learn one tool. What's preferable for hammering nails; owning five immaculate hammers, or having one scuffed hammer that you've used for over a year and know how to hit nails with?



You‘ve hit the nail right on the head!


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## easyrider (Nov 29, 2020)

I got Spitfire Eric Whitaker Choir for 55% off and dont have anything like it along with The Ton and orchestral swarm for £70.I bought the Audio Imperia Bundle couple of months back from NI so I think I’ll give Berlin a miss...I don’t need another string or brass library right now...

I also bought Arturia V Collection 7 for €149

I’ve done alright this Black Friday...might as well compose and create with them...


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## Hendrixon (Nov 29, 2020)

mcalis said:


> Technically, all you need is a piano, pencil and paper.



Ok, you're officially band from this thread


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 29, 2020)

mcalis said:


> Technically, all you need is a piano, pencil and paper. So no, you don't need it. Buying stuff does not equal progress. If you need a cure for GAS: go listen to the demo's or walkthroughs of products you already own. Just look at what Mr. Blaney can do with Spitfire Symphonic - that's the bar of what's possible with what you already have.
> 
> With any new product what you get is more options. Sometimes more options is great. Sometimes having more options is extremely stifling because it hampers your decision making. Instead of writing a melody for horns, you end up spending 30 minutes playing around with 5 different horns from different libraries and your original idea gets totally lost.
> 
> Not only that, but you also take away from yourself the opportunity to intimately learn one tool. What's preferable for hammering nails; owning five immaculate hammers, or having one scuffed hammer that you've used for over a year and know how to hit nails with?



I rather think you gave hit the nail on the head with this post.

Which hammer did you use.....?


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## dzilizzi (Nov 29, 2020)

Christopher Rocky said:


> But with OT that hasn't been the case? they have sold them with discounts twice now just in the last 12 months.
> BTW i'm not discrediting this as a great sale! but rather another line of thought around it, it was a very hard decision to not to jump in, heck still is hard decision with 2 days left! I really had to take stock this time with everything I use, compare the benefits etc...


It's pretty much been the same libraries. The guys from Sonokinetic and SonicCouture both verified these sales were related to becoming NKS compatible. NI picks the products/bundles, if I understood correctly. NI will pick stuff that sells to a wider audience. The OT sale has happened 3 times, most of the others have only been once or twice.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 29, 2020)

I'm watching Jono's quick play through video of the strings (threeee hoursss and fortyyyy minutesssss!) and I must say, the violas sound the best I heard in any library.

Keep watching, I've seen an hour and a half so far... so basically I'm still around the start


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## dzilizzi (Nov 29, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> I'm watching Jono's quick play through video of the strings (threeee hoursss and fortyyyy minutesssss!) and I must say, the violas sound the best I heard in any library.
> 
> Keep watching, I've seen an hour and a half so far... so basically I'm still around the start


Truthfully, Jono was the main reason I decided to get the BS if they ever went on sale. He loved them so much, I figured it was worth getting them, especially after I got a machine with 64gb RAM.


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## Marsen (Nov 29, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> I'm watching Jono's quick play through video of the strings (threeee hoursss and fortyyyy minutesssss!) and I must say, the violas sound the best I heard in any library.
> 
> Keep watching, I've seen an hour and a half so far... so basically I'm still around the start


Where do I find this?


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## matthieuL (Nov 29, 2020)

Too bad that there are no fluttertongue articulations for Brass. Only for Horns in Expansion C


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## Hendrixon (Nov 29, 2020)

Marsen said:


> Where do I find this?



Careful what you ask for


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## youngpokie (Nov 29, 2020)

Going through walkthrough after walkthrough, I just can't stop feeling amazed, every time, at the quality, purity and beauty of Berlin tone. The level of craftsmanship and musicianship they put into this library is something else...


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## Marsen (Nov 29, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Careful what you ask for


 Yea, this is a long ride.


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## Marsen (Nov 29, 2020)

Tried some snares of Berlin Percussion. 
This is..., I mean around 20 round robins and 8 velocity layers?

This is seiously something. 
I don't wanna disturb you, but same with brass. Played the Zampano trumpet?
I 'm just not sure with the Strings yet, as this is a massive library in terms of ram usage and cpu, compared to CSS.
But WW, Brass & Percussion are at such high quality level. 

With the extensions, this might be the library to cure G.A.S.


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## Casiquire (Nov 29, 2020)

I think more than one of us is watching Jononotbono's video right now


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## dzilizzi (Nov 29, 2020)

Marsen said:


> Tried some snares of Berlin Percussion.
> This is..., I mean around 20 round robins and 8 velocity layers?
> 
> This is seiously something.
> ...


I have CinePerc, Joby Burress Perc, and HZ Perc. as well as a bunch of 8Dio perc libraries. I really don't want Berlin Perc as well. Is it really necessary?


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## galactic orange (Nov 29, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I have CinePerc, Joby Burress Perc, and HZ Perc. as well as a bunch of 8Dio perc libraries. I really don't want Berlin Perc as well. Is it really necessary?


Can I look at it a different way? I have Berlin Perc + Timpani. Do I need CinePerc? Would HZ Perc add enough different tools to make it worth getting?


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## Marsen (Nov 29, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I have CinePerc, Joby Burress Perc, and HZ Perc. as well as a bunch of 8Dio perc libraries. I really don't want Berlin Perc as well. Is it really necessary?



For me, it seems to be the best percussion library, I ever put my fingers at.

Do you need it? Probably no.

But it is a gorgeous library.
I own CinePerc too, which is great.
I need more time to work with it, but it's such a great sound.


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## Marsen (Nov 29, 2020)

galactic orange said:


> Can I look at it a different way? I have Berlin Perc + Timpani. Do I need CinePerc? Would HZ Perc add enough different tools to make it worth getting?



What I can definitely say is: 
CinePerc is a more processed "Hollywood " Sound, which is good. 
It's not a processed "trailer-like" Hybrid Sound, but a well eq'd and maybe saturated , warm and fat sound by Dennis Sands, which is a master engineer for film recordings. 

Berlin Percussion is a much more natural, pure, unprocessed sound, like stated at the OT site.
Just the mics, A-D Converters and the room.
Which, in combination with the massive round robins and velocity layery gives you this unparalleled natural sound with maximum dynamic and "air".

I absolute love this sound, but as said, love the Cinesamples sound too.
Hope that helps.


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## Marsen (Nov 29, 2020)

I have to add this:

Trailer composers, epic larger than life scores, wouldn't benefit from Berlin Percussion.
That's why they don't use it, which is perfectly fine.

You can get this sound with OT Berlin without a question, but you have to put some time and effort in, to mix and produce this sound.
On the other hand it is quiet difficult, if not impossible to get an more natural, classical sound out of an processed library. This is, where libraries like BP shine.

So it's more a question of: Do I have the time to tweak the sound, or do I just use my other library for that.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 29, 2020)

Dammit! Now I want the Perc.....


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## galactic orange (Nov 29, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Dammit! Now I want the Perc.....


And I want the strings. But the USD exchange rate has got me petrified to push the buy button. (Also had Afflatus in my cart and just couldn’t do it, but I’ll reconsider both again in a few hours).


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## jbuhler (Nov 29, 2020)

galactic orange said:


> And I want the strings. But the USD exchange rate has got me petrified to push the buy button. (Also had Afflatus in my cart and just couldn’t do it, but I’ll reconsider both again in a few hours).


Nearly $500 for Afflatus once the exchange rate is calculated. Fortunately I really love the library. The exchange rate has also kept me from thinking too seriously about Berlin Brass or Woodwinds, though I’m tempted especially by the brass.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 29, 2020)

galactic orange said:


> And I want the strings. But the USD exchange rate has got me petrified to push the buy button. (Also had Afflatus in my cart and just couldn’t do it, but I’ll reconsider both again in a few hours).


I have a credit card with no transaction fees. When I go through paypal, I always pay in the local currency. Paypal charges transaction fees that really add up. If you start buying a lot of these libraries, the two things I recommend is using Paypal because they add a layer of protection and guarantee you get what you pay for and a no transaction fee card that you use through paypal. 

Back to BS - they sound good. It is funny, though, the patches I am liking aren't the legato. Nothing wrong with it when it finally finishes loading, but it is slow. I have it on an external SSD. It would probably be faster on an internal SSD. I may try it out as I just bought a 4TB SSD and I'm thinking of moving it to internal and pulling one of the internal HDD's to external. I'll still be limited by the SATA connection. If I really get into this, I may have to build a better computer.....


----------



## coprhead6 (Nov 29, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> The exchange rate has also kept me from thinking too seriously about Berlin Brass or Woodwinds, though I’m tempted especially by the brass.



I know we're both SSB users with the JXL solo trombone. I'm also tempted by Berlin Brass, but I did pick up CSB earlier this fall and I'm having a hard time justifying another brass library. CSB is just such a great addition to SSB's weaknesses (legato and dyanmic range / crossfading). Maybe you could pick up CSB and it would be easier on the wallet!


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 29, 2020)

Marsen said:


> I have to add this:
> 
> Trailer composers, epic larger than life scores, wouldn't benefit from Berlin Percussion.
> That's why they don't use it, which is perfectly fine.
> ...


Okay, listened to the walk-through. No timpani, but I have that covered. The bass drums are the big selling point. They have this low end boominess that I don't hear on the Spitfire perc libraries. That is something I really love in a drum. It almost sounds like they have a reverb on it. I would hope they don't on the walkthrough. CinePerc almost has the boomy sound, but only on the rolls. Berlin has more bass drum sizes. 

Wait! They have a duck whistle! I need a duck whistle! LOL!


----------



## coprhead6 (Nov 29, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Wait! They have a duck whistle! I need a duck whistle! LOL!



Your new fans flocking to the cinema!


----------



## jbuhler (Nov 29, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> I know we're both SSB users with the JXL solo trombone. I'm also tempted by Berlin Brass, but I did pick up CSB earlier this fall and I'm having a hard time justifying another brass library. CSB is just such a great addition to SSB's weaknesses (legato and dyanmic range / crossfading). Maybe you could pick up CSB and it would be easier on the wallet!


I dislike the sound of CSB (and CSS) so it’s never appealed to me despite the legato. That’s not anything against those libraries. I’ve heard plenty of good work done with them but I don’t think they are well suited to my music. I do like the sound of Teldex though and I have Berlin Strings as well as three of the Arks and the two Times. I very much like both SSB and SSW, and I find them well suited to my music but as with all libraries there are always things you wish they did a little bit better (they are for instance maddeningly inconsistent). I can’t convince myself that the Berlin winds and brass will give me enough that I can’t already accomplish, and for the brass at least I’d probably prefer JXL Brass to Berlin from my comparisons between the JXL trombone and the Berlin brass bits I have in Inspire 1.


----------



## lgmcben (Nov 29, 2020)

This ends tomorrow


----------



## coprhead6 (Nov 29, 2020)

I just had a playthrough of CSB and SSB again. 
Talked myself out of Berlin Brass for another day!


----------



## emilio_n (Nov 29, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> I just had a playthrough of CSB and SSB again.
> Talked myself out of Berlin Brass for another day!


I did exactly the same...


----------



## lgmcben (Nov 29, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> I just had a playthrough of CSB and SSB again.
> Talked myself out of Berlin Brass for another day!


Don't play those cards yet You do it in the final 10 minutes of the sale campaign.


----------



## coprhead6 (Nov 29, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> Don't play those cards yet You do it in the final 10 minutes of the sale campaign.



I just need to add more reverb each time!!


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 29, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> This ends tomorrow


One more day to make it through. I didn't, but you be strong and don't think about how great these libraries sound. Or how much you'll regret not grabbing them when they are on sale. 


Or how much they still cost with the discount and how much space they'll need on your computer and how many other less expensive libraries are out there that are almost/just as good.....


----------



## Frederick (Nov 29, 2020)

I used to think Orchetrsal Tools (and VSL) were too expensive for me considering I like to have many different orchestras and these two would at least double my total investment with only little incremental value to me.

In this sale I did pick up the Berlin Strings, but for the rest I'm going to stay strong. With strings you can never have too many. And I already had the special bows I and II along with Time Macro and Micro in the NI sale.

The Berlin woodwinds are definitely great but after listening to a comparison video of Princess Leia's theme with several other quality woodwinds it was clear to me they don't stand out that much. Very good, but so are several others. E.g. 8dio Claire which I already own also did very well in the comparison.

The thing is that with the organisation of these Berlin libraries you're going to be sucked in until you have it all: If you pick up the woodwinds you're going to miss some of the additional woodwinds. You just have to buy those too. Why do they have extra solo libs if the Woodwinds are that great? I'd better pick those up too. Now I've spent THAT much money I'd better get the Woodwinds FX too. Repeat for the brass and the percussion. Especially for the brass: When you have it all, you realize it's not suitable for the FF-FFF range. Now you have to get JXL Brass as well. And even with the discount these libs are still quite expensive.

If you do want to get sucked in I can't recommend VSL enough. They have lowered their prices and what they release is more to what the public seems to want. I really went for VSL the last couple of months now owning about 30 libs and still having spent less than 2500 Euro.


----------



## lgmcben (Nov 30, 2020)

I surrendered. Good luck to you all.


----------



## borisb2 (Nov 30, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> I surrendered. Good luck to you all.


haha .. congrats.

I purchased as well during the sale .. the tone of BS is really incredible. None of my other libraries has that clarity and detail.


----------



## Raphioli (Nov 30, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> I surrendered. Good luck to you all.


You haven't fully surrendered until you've bought BS 

Just jking, congrats!


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 30, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I have CinePerc, Joby Burress Perc, and HZ Perc. as well as a bunch of 8Dio perc libraries. I really don't want Berlin Perc as well. *Is it really necessary?*



From the wording, no matter what the answer will be, I knew what will come next...



dzilizzi said:


> Dammit! Now I want the Perc.....



LOL
But this is just the logical, though skewed, part... what was needed now is to tie this to reality:



> I have a credit card with no transaction fees.





> If I really get into this, I may have to build a better computer.....


Really get into this?! I think that boat has sailed
Ok so now we get into the serious stuff, comparing this lib to what we have, right? right?


> CinePerc almost has the boomy sound, but only on the rolls. Berlin has more bass drum sizes.


Nothing wrong here, this seems like a logical mature human being doing real due diligence👌 
But that didn't last long....


> Wait! They have a duck whistle! I need a duck whistle! LOL!


What the hell is a duck whistle... and how the hell did you find it?! 


Tick Tock Tick Tock Tick Tock...


----------



## Artemi (Nov 30, 2020)

thanks to @Casiquire we now can listen legato section in BWW more closely


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 30, 2020)

Here's the original Soundcloud for anyone interested, but it's useful to see it as a video with the notes popping up when relevant. Artemi was curious how big the differences are between different individual instruments so I just threw together the same line for each player included. The instruments are tagged. I'll copy over the notes I sent to @Artemi about this as well. Hope this helps.




"Well I decided to just do all the Revive instruments lol. Couple things to keep in mind: this is all the default legato out of the box, modwheel only, and I brought in close mics because it's pretty wet out of the box. Other than that, there's no tweaking anywhere (except changing the runs octaves for range reasons) and I copied the same midi from one to the next. You can hear how consistent it is and how well it holds up to the same midi without any adjustments. There are three instruments without runs: the Flute 2 and both bassoons. You can definitely tell the difference. Last thing, what I love so much about the library is that different instruments might not react as well when they're pushing their range, like real players. See how pinched the oboes get in the top register (this line was not written with oboe in mind, so of course it doesn't sound perfect!) And different registers are naturally louder than others just like in real life. There's a lot of breath and life in the library. Especially in the bassoons. I can hear so much movement with them."


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 30, 2020)

@Casiquire 

Thanks for doing this!
I compared your SSW video to BWW, it was a bit hard as SSW is very wet and the midi/playing is different, still here are few thoughts:
I like the Oboe better in SSW, it has more bloom (the sound evolves, more natural) and honk (sound timbre).
Clarinet in BWW has no vibrato, very static.
Bassoon in BWW has no runs in the legato so playing fast sounds like longs...
Flutes are good in both, maybe slight edge in BWW? either way both flutes are great.
You didn't show the piccolo in BWW (in SSW it was nice).

Interesting point, I have EWHO and even though the woods there are the weakest part, the flutes are super nice. I guess its relatively easy sampling and programming flutes.

An obvious thing is the lack of a2 in BWW, for me not a huge miss because on the other hand BWW has more singles in each category. but a major difference is the lack of instruments in BWW (bass flute, contrabass clarinet, bass clarinet, contrabassoon).


Would love to hear your thoughts on the two libs


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 30, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> @Casiquire
> 
> Thanks for doing this!
> I compared your SSW video to BWW, it was a bit hard as SSW is very wet and the midi/playing is different, still here are few thoughts:
> ...


Ahh you're right, I missed the BWW piccolo. The original goal was just to compare when there's more than one of the same instrument so the piccolo slipped my mind. Ah well, you get the idea! Just imagine a tea kettle mixed with shrieking.

The lack of a2 is fine because these players were designed to blend. As you can hear they sound great on their own but they blend perfectly convincingly


----------



## youngpokie (Nov 30, 2020)

Frederick said:


> ... E.g. 8dio Claire which I already own also did very well in the comparison.
> 
> ...If you do want to get sucked in I can't recommend VSL enough.



It's interesting how different opinions can be... I have Claire and to my ears it doesn't compare to Berlin Woodwinds. Yes, they both sound woodwind-y and I like Claire a lot, but Berlin has a quality that puts it in a league of its own but is not so easy to describe. 

This comparison may sound like I'm nitpicking or rejecting Claire, which is not at all the case. But to try and describe it - to my ears, Claire sounds somehow more gimmicky and exaggerated in how it's played. Berlin is pure and emotional without trying too hard. I wonder if the player background and/or technique had something to do with it. On top of that, there's Berlin room that sounds clear and profound but not like a church or a giant cave...

VSL is more comparable to Berlin in this sense (tone production and player quality) and they both sound pure and beautiful. But still, to my ears Berlin has way more life and awe.

In fact, I'll just admit it - I've fallen head over heals in love with the Berlin range...


----------



## shawnsingh (Nov 30, 2020)

matthieuL said:


> Berlin Percussion can be very annoying to use as there is a huge step in velocity layers (for example for marimba or vibraphone). And I don't know if the balance can be trusted (for example, the celesta is way louder than other instruments).
> Sorry to be negative again, but I don't want other people having the same disappointement as me. The library is very good, but better than others I don't think, it has flaws and aberrations (for this price range) like others.
> And again, maybe SINE will fix some things.
> 
> EDIT : just checked, for example the marimba becomes suddenly very percussive and loud at velocity 80, the vibraphone at velocity 65. Totally unusable in some conditions (crescendo of repeated notes...), at least very difficult to manage.



In the Capsule, from the wrench icon settings, there is an option that allows you to change behavior of how velocity layers are played back - the default in Berlin Perc is to play back only one velocity layer with no crossfading between layers. So as soon as you cross the boundary between velocity layers, it does feel like a "jump". I think it would require 30-40 velocity layers to avoid that problem. But if you flip the setting, you can xfade between the layers depending on note velocity (and then another option opens up that allows you to chooose between xfading with note velocity or xfading with CC control).

I think they defaulted to distinctly separate velocity layers to demonstrate the clearest sound and avoid the risk of phasing issues of multiple samples playing at the same time. I actually changed this setting to xfade between layers, and I feel like it works just fine. The reverb of the room mic positions, and other sounds in an orchestrated piece seems to help mask any possible phasing issues. I'm sure there will be cases where the xfade sounds phasey or flammy but it hasn't been an issue for me yet.


----------



## Frederick (Nov 30, 2020)

youngpokie said:


> It's interesting how different opinions can be... I have Claire and to my ears it doesn't compare to Berlin Woodwinds. Yes, they both sound woodwind-y and I like Claire a lot, but Berlin has a quality that puts it in a league of its own but is not so easy to describe.
> 
> This comparison may sound like I'm nitpicking or rejecting Claire, which is not at all the case. But to try and describe it - to my ears, Claire sounds somehow more gimmicky and exaggerated in how it's played. Berlin is pure and emotional without trying too hard. I wonder if the player background and/or technique had something to do with it. On top of that, there's Berlin room that sounds clear and profound but not like a church or a giant cave...
> 
> ...


I get what you're saying about Claire woodwinds trying too hard. We just don't agree on whether or not it's actually trying too hard or a very good interesting flavor, although not for all occasions. (I've got many woodwinds: SSW, Claire, VSL Synchron-ized woodwinds, EWHWW, CineWinds Core + Pro, BBCSO Pro, Auddict Master Solo ww, 8Dio intimate woodwinds.)


----------



## Artemi (Nov 30, 2020)

in case someone haven't seen this video


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> From the wording, no matter what the answer will be, I knew what will come next...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The duck whistle came up in a conversation with my husband. I was paging through his Bass Pro Shop sale flyer and saw a duck whistle. I was wondering if it would be useful to have it to annoy the cats. Then there it was as an articulation in Berlin Percussion! I mean, it was like something above was telling me "this is the library you need!" 

In all seriousness, if the bass drum sounds like the walkthrough, this might be my favorite perc library. My computer setup is maxed out at 64gb RAM. But, I actually have a second computer that I can upgrade to 64 as well and I do have a copy of VEPro. I just need to figure out how to set it all up. Generally, I add single instruments as I use them. No big template. But with wanting the duck whistle and seashell tree available at all times, I might have to set one up for this. 

Well, this is going to be fun. Now to download it.


----------



## youngpokie (Nov 30, 2020)

So, while salivating over Berlin Series for the little time left, I came across this:






Optimising Berlin Series Instruments Memory Usage – Alex John Ernest Vincent (alexjevincent.co.uk)

He claims he can reduce memory footprint by about half while still using 2 microphone positions. Has anyone used it before and does it really work?

EDIT: It's actually written by the forum member @Ihnoc here! Man, I love this forum...

Reducing Berlin Series Instruments Memory Usage | VI-CONTROL (vi-control.net)


----------



## lgmcben (Nov 30, 2020)

youngpokie said:


> So, while salivating over Berlin Series for the little time left, I came across this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You announcing this will increase casualties who otherwise could be safe behind the (my pc can't run)Berlin Wall.


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 30, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> The duck whistle came up in a conversation with my husband. I was paging through his Bass Pro Shop sale flyer and saw a duck whistle. I was wondering if it would be useful to have it to annoy the cats. Then there it was as an articulation in Berlin Percussion! I mean, it was like something above was telling me "this is the library you need!"
> 
> In all seriousness, if the bass drum sounds like the walkthrough, this might be my favorite perc library. My computer setup is maxed out at 64gb RAM. But, I actually have a second computer that I can upgrade to 64 as well and I do have a copy of VEPro. I just need to figure out how to set it all up. Generally, I add single instruments as I use them. No big template. But with wanting the duck whistle and seashell tree available at all times, I might have to set one up for this.
> 
> Well, this is going to be fun. Now to download it.



I'm confused... your husband is a bass player and he buys gear in a shop that has a duck whistle?
Man bass players are weird


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> I'm confused... your husband is a bass player and he buys gear in a shop that has a duck whistle?
> Man bass players are weird


You know what is funny. When I first met him many many years ago, he had a bass guitar. He ended up giving it away to some kid. 

But really, the amount he spends on fishing tackle and his boat? I could buy the VSL cube.


----------



## David Kudell (Nov 30, 2020)

Christopher Rocky said:


> But with OT that hasn't been the case? they have sold them with discounts twice now just in the last 12 months.
> BTW i'm not discrediting this as a great sale! but rather another line of thought around it, it was a very hard decision to not to jump in, heck still is hard decision with 2 days left! I really had to take stock this time with everything I use, compare the benefits etc...


I don’t think you’ll see 50% again. On the OT Facebook:

“This is the first time we've run this offer, and it's probably the last time, so don't miss out: Save 50% on Berlin Series main collections.”


----------



## jsnleo (Nov 30, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I don’t think you’ll see 50% again. On the OT Facebook:
> 
> “This is the first time we've run this offer, and it's probably the last time, so don't miss out: Save 50% on Berlin Series main collections.”



Because maybe next time it’d be 60% off?


----------



## emilio_n (Nov 30, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I don’t think you’ll see 50% again. On the OT Facebook:
> 
> “This is the first time we've run this offer, and it's probably the last time, so don't miss out: Save 50% on Berlin Series main collections.”


Don't say that! I thought that finally, I could let go Berlin sales. Now, I feel that I will regret it!
For a hobby, 1400€ is tooooooooo much!
After listen your composition during NI recent sales, I bought the bundle and now the Special Bows are asking me for their big siblings!


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I don’t think you’ll see 50% again. On the OT Facebook:
> 
> “This is the first time we've run this offer, and it's probably the last time, so don't miss out: Save 50% on Berlin Series main collections.”


I'm thinking the next step is the port to Sine. The last sale was right before they introduced Sine.


----------



## wlinart (Nov 30, 2020)

So i caved for the woodwinds and i'm trying to resist the brass and strings  Figured i don't need the percussion, since i already got cineperc.
I do have iconica, which is like the berlin series light, but now i'm thinking of replacing it with berlin brass and strings. Please talk me out of it


----------



## easyrider (Nov 30, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I don’t think you’ll see 50% again. On the OT Facebook:
> 
> “This is the first time we've run this offer, and it's probably the last time, so don't miss out: Save 50% on Berlin Series main collections.”



Brilliant Marketing right there....Berlin has been cheaper before....the key word here is probably....


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Brilliant Marketing right there....Berlin has been cheaper before....the key word here is probably....


Not the main orchestras as far as I can remember. But I only go back to 2017 with symphonic VI's.


----------



## easyrider (Nov 30, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Not the main orchestras as far as I can remember. But I only go back to 2017 with symphonic VI's.



There was a NI sale wasn't there at 60% off...?


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

wlinart said:


> So i caved for the woodwinds and i'm trying to resist the brass and strings  Figured i don't need the percussion, since i already got cineperc.
> I do have iconica, which is like the berlin series light, but now i'm thinking of replacing it with berlin brass and strings. Please talk me out of it


You don't need it. When if finally ports to Sine, you can pick up what you are missing as they sell the individual instruments in their Sine shop. 

Of course, this is if you don't use ProTools as your main library. Sine doesn't work in ProTools.


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

easyrider said:


> There was a NI sale wasn't there at 60% off...?


But only the bundles and they never had the main orchestras. Just the Arks, Inspires, Times, and the expansions.


----------



## easyrider (Nov 30, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> But only the bundles and they never had the main orchestras. Just the Arks, Inspires, Times, and the expansions.



don’t mean the sale just gone I mean a few years ago....


----------



## Marsen (Nov 30, 2020)

Please don´t forget, it could end 00:00 Berlin time.
There is no countdown.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer (Nov 30, 2020)

I plan on getting CSW when it gets released (hopefully LOL) in the next few weeks ... I currently own Sonokinetic WW Ensembles, BWW EXP B, and a few other solo libraries like 8DIO's Oboe and Claire Piccolo Flute ...

Is there anything that BWW could give me that i'm currently missing? Trying to hold off on BWW because I think CSW will solve my woodwind problems but part of me feels like I may be missing out with this sale ...

Please help me, thanks in advance!


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 30, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> the amount he spends on fishing tackle and his boat? I could buy the VSL cube.



Well that's a classic language barrier... its bass the fish
Ok, I'll live with that one 
This reminds me Seinfeld, when Kramer was sure a guy in the gym named Sal Bass was actually Salman Rushdie, because he had a beard, an accent and to disguise his name he put "Bass" in his name, its so obvious "he simply changed one fish for another... Bass" lol



wlinart said:


> So i caved for the woodwinds and i'm trying to resist the brass and strings  Figured i don't need the percussion, since i already got cineperc.
> I do have iconica, which is like the berlin series light, but now i'm thinking of replacing it with berlin brass and strings. Please talk me out of it



If you only knew how many times I changed my mind about what to get from this Berlin sale   

Brass is for sure, together with Cinebrass its the main block in my "Powell Project" (I need a new hobby).

Then I was back and forth about the strings, some vids were nice, others not so much, in the end my conclusion was "not sure about the legato, something in the sound not clicking with me", but Luke's play though showed me how the many arts and longs are beautiful... so strings are in.

Now all this talk about woodwinds... I have no idea what to do with woodwinds... I played rock/metal/fusion/blues all my life
Well if I'm doing this, I guess I need those too (I'm not that narrow minded, but true I have less idea how to write for woods). with all the praises here about BWW, gave it a listen and was like "O-kay, I'll get those".

I have Percs in EWHO and few more, so to show some restrain I decided not to even check BP.
So we're settled, right?
Brass + Strings + Woods.
Then all the "Perc this Perc that" talk started... so I checked it... bad move!
Brass + Strings + Woods + Perc

THEN came this vid comparing SSW and BWW...
Brass + Strings + Perc.



> Please talk me out of it


Well, as you can see... I can't!!!


----------



## coprhead6 (Nov 30, 2020)

I still think OT’s next library will be Strings. 
RESIST


----------



## Michael Antrum (Nov 30, 2020)

What I see is the ratcheting up of FOMO.


----------



## wlinart (Nov 30, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Well that's a classic language barrier... its bass the fish
> Ok, I'll live with that one
> This reminds me Seinfeld, when Kramer was sure a guy in the gym named Sal Bass was actually Salman Rushdie, because he had a beard, an accent and to disguise his name he put "Bass" in his name, its so obvious "he simply changed one fish for another... Bass" lol
> 
> ...


Sounds very familiar 
In the beginning i was thinking woodwinds and brass. Then Chris video came, and then the strings was added. And then i wanted everything. But now i'm back to only ww. But brass and strings maybe too


----------



## JEPA (Nov 30, 2020)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> I plan on getting CSW when it gets released (hopefully LOL) in the next few weeks ... I currently own Sonokinetic WW Ensembles, BWW EXP B, and a few other solo libraries like 8DIO's Oboe and Claire Piccolo Flute ...
> 
> Is there anything that BWW could give me that i'm currently missing? Trying to hold off on BWW because I think CSW will solve my woodwind problems but part of me feels like I may be missing out with this sale ...
> 
> Please help me, thanks in advance!


this is your answer! on sale right now! EDIT: %60 off on bundles!



Bundles





Cinesamples - Woodwind Orchestra | Hollywood WoodWinds | Woodwind VST


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

easyrider said:


> don’t mean the sale just gone I mean a few years ago....


In 2018, they had the main libraries on sale for 40% off around BF. I bought BWW then. The next month was the first NI sale. It had bundles with the Arks and Inspires at 60% off and Orchestral Runs and Spheres at 50% as well as all the individual libraries at 50% I think. I bought the runs. None of the main libraries were on sale.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer (Nov 30, 2020)

JEPA said:


> this is your answer! on sale right now! EDIT: %60 off on bundles!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow that's a great deal! I forgot to mention that i own monster low woodwinds and LOVE it, lol! But I don't particularly care for the tone of Cinewinds and I've heard mixed reviews on the legato. That still is a great deal however!


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> What I see is the ratcheting up of FOMO.


In some ways for me it was. I mostly use ProTools. Sine is mostly useless.


----------



## Marsen (Nov 30, 2020)

I´m still stuck with Jono´s 24hour video on BS, lol.

Quiet funny, but at the moment, I don´t feel I need this strings.
The only reason is, to complete the bundle, telling myself all is in the same room, but i guess this is no good reason to spend another nearly 500,-

I got Winds, Brass, Percussion and I´m already sure, this is one of the best investments, I made.
Love the sound and playability.

See what happens in the next 4 hours...  :emoji_wine_glass:


----------



## Raphioli (Nov 30, 2020)

Marsen said:


> Quiet funny, *but at the moment*, I don´t feel I need this strings.



At the moment yes, but when you need it in the future, you're not going to get a 50% off deal according to OT's Facebook =D


David Kudell said:


> I don’t think you’ll see 50% again. On the OT Facebook:
> 
> “This is the first time we've run this offer, and it's probably the last time, so don't miss out: Save 50% on Berlin Series main collections.”



I think some people in this thread just generally love to give that final little push


----------



## Marsen (Nov 30, 2020)

...this blue cookie looks so good... ups


----------



## Marsen (Nov 30, 2020)

Raphioli said:


> I think some people in this thread just generally love to give that final little push



Nooo


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## Beans (Nov 30, 2020)

Cripes, Berlin Strings has some good patches in it. I can see why Chris Siu has used it in his work. Pulling up the celli legato begs you to play "When You Wish Upon a Star."

In short, I've got a wealthy friend who has a very nice studio for his composition hobby (he's played piano since he was very young, but does not make money from music). He's on the other side of the country this week, but unlocked his door from his phone for me so I could play around during lunch break.

Is it perfect? Gosh no. I noticed a few odd attacks on some longs. Some tuning issues here and there. The shorts weren't as bad as I expected, once I pulled back on the Tree and brought in the Close mic.

I won't be buying these, but not because they're not fantastic. I also won't be buying MSS. I won't be buying HOOPUS. I won't be buying Infinite Strings. I've got too many strings as it is (EWHO, CSS, NSS, BBCSO Pro, SySP, Afflatus), and need to learn how to use them.


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

Marsen said:


> ...this blue cookie looks so good... ups


If you are lucky, the sale will run out before you make a decision.


----------



## nickhmusic (Nov 30, 2020)

May i ask if the December 1st expiry is the end of December 1st, or midnight tonight? Thanks all!


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 30, 2020)

Beans said:


> Cripes, Berlin Strings has some good patches in it. I can see why Chris Siu has used it in his work. Pulling up the celli legato begs you to play "When You Wish Upon a Star."
> 
> In short, I've got a wealthy friend who has a very nice studio for his composition hobby (he's played piano since he was very young, but does not make money from music). He's on the other side of the country this week, but unlocked his door from his phone for me so I could play around during lunch break.
> 
> ...



So now that you had a play with them, putting aside the logic you don't need more strings, how did they compare to your other libs?


----------



## wlinart (Nov 30, 2020)

nickhmusic said:


> May i ask if the December 1st expiry is the end of December 1st, or midnight tonight? Thanks all!


3 hours ago they posted on their facebook that the offer lasts 24 hours. So somewhere on the 1st of december is my guess


----------



## nickhmusic (Nov 30, 2020)

wlinart said:


> 3 hours ago they posted on their facebook that the offer lasts 24 hours. So somewhere on the 1st of december is my guess


thank you my good man!


----------



## Beans (Nov 30, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> So now that you had a play with them, putting aside the logic you don't need more strings, how did they compare to your other libs?



Some scattered thoughts from my brief time with it:

Being an owner of BWW, JXL Brass, and Modus, I can see the value of buying more from Teldex. It's a lovely place. I think Teldex takes very well to strings and woodwinds, and then brass after that (undecided on percussion, because I'm so high on percussion in AROOF).
They don't overwhelm with harshness and "excessive" bowing noise that I find myself taming in, say, Synchron Strings Pro's violins.
They seem more "present" and up front than CSS and Afflatus, without fiddling with the mics. I get the sense that their mic placement was very well thought out.
I appreciate the difference that the mics make. Not AROOF difference (which can invoke completely different genres depending on the mic selection), but it was easy to dial back the room when needed. I can definitely see that being needed. In fact, the "limited" Berlin mics felt more impactful to me than most of the BBCSO Pro mics.
I've seen some comments about the trem not being as pronounced as people would like. I didn't feel that, but do still appreciate CSS for the measured trem (which I use too often) that I don't think Berlin has.
His setup is different from mine, so I wasn't able to compare something like NSS or Afflatus to Berlin. I did take over my own headphones that I often use at my home office.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 30, 2020)

Just in case the internet will go kaboom before I'll figure out everything...


----------



## stabsteer (Nov 30, 2020)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> I plan on getting CSW when it gets released (hopefully LOL) in the next few weeks ... I currently own Sonokinetic WW Ensembles, BWW EXP B, and a few other solo libraries like 8DIO's Oboe and Claire Piccolo Flute ...
> 
> Is there anything that BWW could give me that i'm currently missing? Trying to hold off on BWW because I think CSW will solve my woodwind problems but part of me feels like I may be missing out with this sale ...
> 
> Please help me, thanks in advance!


I'm in the exact same boat. Trying to hold off for the next 15 hours! Not sure what what we might be missing with Berlin WW versus CMWW and can't decide to pull the trigger on Berlin or not!


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## galactic orange (Nov 30, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> I still think OT’s next library will be Strings.
> RESIST


I think you are right about that. We’ll see!


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## Marsen (Nov 30, 2020)

Just reaching 3 hours of Jono´s video and the cookie get´s more and more blue and tasty...


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## borisb2 (Nov 30, 2020)

youngpokie said:


> So, while salivating over Berlin Series for the little time left, I came across this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just added BS to my template, using one multi-patch for each section with 8 articulations each (for the longs). First I was a bit surprised how big the xml-file gets when exporting these tracks (I usually temp-save the libraries in modular xml-files) .. then I noticed how much memory a multi uses even without ANY articulation loaded. I then recreated the setup by loading the same articulations as before just as individual single-articulations (now controlled by expressionMaps using MIDI channels) - and I can confirm it did cut down memory footprint by half!


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## Beans (Nov 30, 2020)

stabsteer said:


> I'm in the exact same boat. Trying to hold off for the next 15 hours! Not sure what what we might be missing with Berlin WW versus CMWW and can't decide to pull the trigger on Berlin or not!



Well, first thing: do you like Teldex, or do you like Trackdown? Trackdown, per the MP3s posted, seems to do well with woodwinds. But it's not everyone's favorite. No matter how lovely some aspects of Cinematic Studio Brass are, it's a bit stifled (in my opinion).


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## Marsen (Nov 30, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> I still think OT’s next library will be Strings.
> RESIST



and we will get it for an good upgrade price then?


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## Marsen (Nov 30, 2020)

3.18 and the cookie ´s getting more & more compelling.


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## borisb2 (Nov 30, 2020)

does @jononotbono knows his celebrity status?

just saying, we just finished watching latest The Crown season on netflix..


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## Hendrixon (Nov 30, 2020)

Beans said:


> Well, first thing: do you like Teldex, or do you like Trackdown? Trackdown, per the MP3s posted, seems to do well with woodwinds. But it's not everyone's favorite. No matter how lovely some aspects of Cinematic Studio Brass are, it's a bit stifled (in my opinion).



I agree, as great as Alex is at designing what to record and how to record and the scripting, Trackdown is the weak link in CS. it kinda works for CSS? but yea not for CSB.
I assume its high mids heavy room modes and shy low end, will not hurt woodwinds too much.

CS2 has a nice sound, in my view because it wasn't recorded in Trackdown.


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## galactic orange (Nov 30, 2020)

Beans said:


> I appreciate the difference that the mics make. Not AROOF difference (which can invoke completely different genres depending on the mic selection), but it was easy to dial back the room when needed. I can definitely see that being needed. In fact, the "limited" Berlin mics felt more impactful to me than most of the BBCSO Pro mics.


I like a closer sound and I like the strings of the Inspires, generally. One appeal of Berlin Strings is that you can dial in more close mic. Do BS sound good, in your opinion, even with the room dialed down?


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## Hendrixon (Nov 30, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> does @jononotbono knows his celebrity status?
> 
> just saying, we just finished watching latest The Crown season on netflix..



Have you seen his latest videos? lol


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## Marsen (Nov 30, 2020)

galactic orange said:


> I like a closer sound and I like the strings of the Inspires, generally. One appeal of Berlin Strings is that you can dial in more close mic. Do BS sound good, in your opinion, even with the room dialed down?


As I yet didn´t pulled the trigger on this one, I just can tell for BB, BWW, BP & Arc 4.
And the answer is yes.


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## Beans (Nov 30, 2020)

galactic orange said:


> I like a closer sound and I like the strings of the Inspires, generally. One appeal of Berlin Strings is that you can dial in more close mic. Do BS sound good, in your opinion, even with the room dialed down?



I tested this a bit with V1 legato and Celli staccato. Note that I do not have the Inspire libraries and haven't even listened to their demos.

I quite liked V1 with Close on and Tree pulled down to roundabouts -20 db, I think. It gave a more "solid" feel without getting any scratch to it, I'd say. If you want that, there was a C MSTR mic that gave it some more bite. I wouldn't use either on their own, but as a layer to Tree they provided a lot of character. I'm not sure if there are videos out there showing this.

For my personal preference, pulling Tree down quite a bit and bringing in Close was necessary for staccato, but quite easy. Admittedly, I often like the "recorded separately, mixed together" sound, which would be easy to do here.

I also pulled up the AB position on patch called something like Whole Ensemble Soft Sustains, which pulled back on the definition a bit in a Jeremy Soule textural way.


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## NathanTiemeyer (Nov 30, 2020)

stabsteer said:


> I'm in the exact same boat. Trying to hold off for the next 15 hours! Not sure what what we might be missing with Berlin WW versus CMWW and can't decide to pull the trigger on Berlin or not!



Great, glad to see I'm not the only one! Hope we can see more input before the day ends 




Beans said:


> Well, first thing: do you like Teldex, or do you like Trackdown? Trackdown, per the MP3s posted, seems to do well with woodwinds. But it's not everyone's favorite. No matter how lovely some aspects of Cinematic Studio Brass are, it's a bit stifled (in my opinion).



Great point- I'll speak in terms of the Cinematic Studio libraries- I love trackdown for CSS- because I've found their strings much more flexible to blend with other libraries recorded in larger spaces. Just tinker with the mic positions and reverb and a little EQ and you're all set!

CSB on other hand I've learned the hard way- and when I say the hard way I mean I tend to only use CSB only for more specific uses (solo lines, quiet brass pads, etc.) and I have other brass libraries do the heavy lifting- and don't get me wrong, I LOVE CSB. But it precisely has to do with the fact that the way CSB is recorded makes it hard (it least for this mixing newbie) for me to blend and place CSB in a larger sounding room. In general, I feel mixing and blending orchestral brass well is very much dependent on the room, whereas strings as not so much. (Again, I could be wrong!)

For CSW, I'm not too worried, because if they're anything like strings, they should blend well. And I've had much more of an easier time blending other woodwind libraries in one large space than I have brass libraries, so the need or lack thereof for BWW for me comes down to articulations that CSW may or may not have.




Hendrixon said:


> it kinda works for CSS? but yea not for CSB.
> I assume its high mids heavy room modes and shy low end, will not hurt woodwinds too much.



Yep, my thoughts exactly! I think CSW will be fine.


----------



## Christopher Rocky (Nov 30, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I don’t think you’ll see 50% again. On the OT Facebook:
> 
> “This is the first time we've run this offer, and it's probably the last time, so don't miss out: Save 50% on Berlin Series main collections.”


Interesting, I didn't see the FB post,
At the same time I wouldn't take a companies own statement at face value while a sale is going on, would not be good marketing if they said 'it will be 50% off again soon don't worry!'

Its not out of the ballpark to speculate that at some point in 12-24 months there might be a kontakt NI bundle sale considering their track record.
which is all I'm suggesting (and suggested in my past posts) admittedly its just a thought, totally might not happen, but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised, given the aging nature of sample libraries along with new ones with new technology etc... so the last time its probably 50%? emphasis on the 'probably' 

SO I totally caved and jumped in on BS, and it was to @jononotbono credit too, the ostinato patches are what got me in the end!!!


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## Eptesicus (Nov 30, 2020)

One more day to resist.

I think i actually might make it.


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## easyrider (Nov 30, 2020)

I’ve had a few beers....please talk me out of it....I’ve got BBCSO PRO, SPITFIRE SYMPHONICS, Spitfire studio orchestra, AR1, all Audio Imperia strings Nucleus, Jaeger, Aieria etc...Cinesamples NI composer set....few others....hic!


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## galactic orange (Nov 30, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> One more day to resist.
> 
> I think i actually might make it.


I think I might not.


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## MaxOctane (Nov 30, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I’ve had a few beers....please talk me out of it....I’ve got BBCSO PRO, SPITFIRE SYMPHONICS, Spitfire studio orchestra, AR1, all Audio Imperia strings Nucleus, Jaeger, Aieria etc...Cinesamples NI composer set....few others....hic!



It's a huge resource hog and even at 50% these aren't cheap.

Now: I have BBCSO, SF Symphonics, Ark1+2+4, Afflatus, Inspire1+2, Time Macro/Micro.... talk me out of AR1!


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## Hendrixon (Nov 30, 2020)

Project "Powell Project" (hmmm... well that sounds silly  ... need to think on a new name!) is coming too life!

Brass:
Cinebrass Core? checked.
Cinebrass Pro? checked.
Berlin Brass? checked.

Vocals:
(Thanks to Beans who had to help me spend more money)
Strezov Wotan? checked.
Strezov Freyja? checked.
Added Ethera Gold 2.5 just because I can't sing to save my life

Strings:
Have CSS.
Can't get Spitfire Bespoke strings... sounds nothing like SSS/BBC/SCS
I think Berlin Strings might be a good sub. still on the fence.

Woodwinds:
He uses a mix of Spitfire Bespoke woodwinds and BML (which is now SSW)
Have no idea what to do with this. still on the fence.

Perc:
Also seems to be mainly SF bespoke + few others
Berlin Perc will cover that... checked.


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## shawnsingh (Nov 30, 2020)

This thread really makes me feel the FOMO pressure to buy these libraries... even though I already have the entire Berlin Series.


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## galactic orange (Nov 30, 2020)

Christopher Rocky said:


> the ostinato patches are what got me in the end!!!


What kind of patches are those? Are you talking about marcatos layered with another short articulation or something like that? CSS has a sound like that works for ostinatos. So that sound alone wouldn’t be enough to pull me over to BS.


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## Beans (Nov 30, 2020)

I mean, look... If you have the money, you have the money. If you don't, you don't. Just save for retirement first.


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## borisb2 (Nov 30, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I’ve had a few beers....please talk me out of it....I’ve got BBCSO PRO, SPITFIRE SYMPHONICS, Spitfire studio orchestra, AR1, all Audio Imperia strings Nucleus, Jaeger, Aieria etc...Cinesamples NI composer set....few others....hic!


get Berlin Strings - you will love it!



galactic orange said:


> What kind of patches are those? Are you talking about marcatos layered with another short articulation or something like that?



BS has special Ostinato patches - just for that one purpose .. havent tested them though


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 30, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I’ve had a few beers....please talk me out of it....I’ve got BBCSO PRO, SPITFIRE SYMPHONICS, Spitfire studio orchestra, AR1, all Audio Imperia strings Nucleus, Jaeger, Aieria etc...Cinesamples NI composer set....few others....hic!



OK Here goes - but you have to do exactly as I say.

Watch the demo videos for the libraries you already have.

Then whilst you are watching each one, get a pencil and paper and write down _exactly_ what is missing from that library that Berlin Strings will give you. Then repeat with the next library until you have gone through all of them - not forgetting to cross out anything the previous libraries were lacking that the current one has covered.

Then look at the list. Is there anything left on it that is worth 440 euros + VAT ?


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## Beans (Nov 30, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> OK Here goes - but you have to do exactly as I say.
> 
> Watch the demo videos for the libraries you already have.
> 
> ...



This is why, as much as I imagine I'll want to, I'm pretty sure I'll have no justification in picking up Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.


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## easyrider (Nov 30, 2020)

The woodwinds though.....sound very nice....


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## easyrider (Nov 30, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> OK Here goes - but you have to do exactly as I say.
> 
> Watch the demo videos for the libraries you already have.
> 
> ...



your plan is working...


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## Zero&One (Nov 30, 2020)

easyrider said:


> The woodwinds though.....sound very nice....



Wait until the last 10 mins, they sound even better!


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## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> It's a huge resource hog and even at 50% these aren't cheap.
> 
> Now: I have BBCSO, SF Symphonics, Ark1+2+4, Afflatus, Inspire1+2, Time Macro/Micro.... talk me out of AR1!


This one is easy. If you aren't buying it to get the Aperture Orchestra, you are better off waiting until next Xmas sale to get it at 40% off.


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## Marsen (Nov 30, 2020)

I surrendered.

This is bad influence, have to say good bye, cockie looked so good, nobody helped, it´s not my fault, it´s a fraud, a big fraud.
I could have won this, but VI is so bad to me.

I don´t wanna go! Wanna stay, but have to go. All the fake news, they so wrong, why don´t they love me in the suburbs?

I stay! No I have to go. People loves me, why are they so bad?
Even Fox news didn´t hold me back.
I won by a lot and now I lost on OT? It´s a hoax. I don´t wanna go!

This cookie so blue, they treated me very bad. It´s not my fault, it´s Hendrik Schwarzer´s fault!
Don´t do this to me I´m the keyholder of wisdom, this blue cookie...looked so tasty.. such a hoax...won by a lot... ate so much cookies..now I´m fat...no one hold be back...


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

Marsen said:


> I surrendered.
> 
> This is bad influence, have to say good bye, cockie looked so good, nobody helped, it´s not my fault, it´s a fraud, a big fraud.
> I could have won this, but VI is so bad to me.
> ...


But did it at least have chocolate chips?


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## Marsen (Nov 30, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> But did it at least have chocolate chips?


Yummy


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 30, 2020)

Marsen said:


> I surrendered.
> 
> This is bad influence, have to say good bye, cockie looked so good, nobody helped, it´s not my fault, it´s a fraud, a big fraud.
> I could have won this, but VI is so bad to me.
> ...



Remember kids... just say no to drugs....


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 30, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> It's a huge resource hog and even at 50% these aren't cheap.
> 
> Now: I have BBCSO, SF Symphonics, Ark1+2+4, Afflatus, Inspire1+2, Time Macro/Micro.... talk me out of AR1!



Berlin? is just a memory hog.
AR1 (and probably all SA player libs)? are cpu hogs... you're just not aware of this


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## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Berlin? is just a memory hog.
> AR1 (and probably all SA player libs)? are cpu hogs... you're just not aware of this


But is there BACON?


----------



## transverb (Nov 30, 2020)

I’m a vegetarian. 🙃

Loving the wisdom in this thread. Doing the Berlin Strings vs another similarly priced library on sale for 50% off at the moment. And the info really helpful.


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

transverb said:


> I’m a vegetarian. 🙃
> 
> Loving the wisdom in this thread. Doing the Berlin Strings vs another similarly priced library on sale for 50% off at the moment. And the info really helpful.


Just don't compare the bass drums..... that's what got me.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 30, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> But is there BACON?


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 30, 2020)

transverb said:


> I’m a vegetarian. 🙃
> 
> Loving the wisdom in this thread. Doing the Berlin Strings vs another similarly priced library on sale for 50% off at the moment. And the info really helpful.



And another one bites the dust


----------



## NathanTiemeyer (Nov 30, 2020)

Just noticed that BWW doesn't have contrabassoon or bass clarinet in the main library, only available in expansions ... while the upcoming CSW has those two instruments covered  The indecision continues!


----------



## Marsen (Nov 30, 2020)

transverb said:


> I’m a vegetarian. 🙃
> 
> Loving the wisdom in this thread. Doing the Berlin Strings vs another similarly priced library on sale for 50% off at the moment. And the info really helpful.



Glad I can help, but it´s a hoax!


----------



## youngpokie (Nov 30, 2020)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Just noticed that BWW doesn't have contrabassoon or bass clarinet in the main library, only available in expansions ... while the upcoming CSW has those two instruments covered  The indecision continues!



What's the probability the expansions will be on sale for Xmas?? hmmmmm


----------



## NathanTiemeyer (Nov 30, 2020)

youngpokie said:


> What's the probability the expansions will be on sale for Xmas?? hmmmmm


Hah! wouldn't be much to use to me as I already own EXP B (which is fantastic btw) and also by then HOPEFULLY CSW is released and sitting happily on my hard drive.


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 30, 2020)

youngpokie said:


> What's the probability the expansions will be on sale for Xmas?? hmmmmm



Even so, it won't be for free... so factor that cost into the main lib.


----------



## galactic orange (Nov 30, 2020)

One thing I like about Berlin Strings is the wide selection of shorts available. I don’t see that with a lot of libraries. More than the legatos, that’s appealing to me. I have SCS, SStS, CSS (and now Afflatus!) and I feel like the the GAS is abating.


----------



## Marsen (Nov 30, 2020)

These are just some great versatile libraries.
Don´t take it too seriously. Just let´s make some great music, whether with this or any other library.


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## galactic orange (Nov 30, 2020)

Marsen said:


> These are just some great versatile libraries.
> Don´t take it too seriously. Just let´s make some great music, whether with this or any other library.


Yes, but the shorts, runs, trills, etc. in Berlin Strings make it very very versatile!


----------



## Marsen (Nov 30, 2020)

galactic orange said:


> Yes, but the shorts, runs, trills, etc. in Berlin Strings make it very very versatile!



That´s why I surrendered


----------



## Marsen (Nov 30, 2020)




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## NathanTiemeyer (Nov 30, 2020)

Looking ahead, I could get CSW (with loyalty pricing) and PS Vista (random but a must-buy for me) together for basically the cost of buying BWW by itself. To me, it makes a lot more sense to just wait for CSW- Alex and the team have yet to let me down. If I had more money to spend, I'd gladly get both BWW and CSW


----------



## easyrider (Nov 30, 2020)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Looking ahead, I could get CSW (with loyalty pricing) and PS Vista (random but a must-buy for me) together for basically the cost of buying BWW by itself. To me, it makes a lot more sense to just wait for CSW- Alex and the team have yet to let me down. If I had more money to spend, I'd gladly get both BWW and CSW




Once CSW hits Berlin will be the girl no one asks to dance


----------



## Marsen (Nov 30, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Once CSW hits Berlin will be the girl no one asks to dance


I don't think so at all, as BWW is incredible. Very hard to beat.


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 30, 2020)

easyrider said:


> The woodwinds though.....sound very nice....


They're my favorite purchase in a very long time


----------



## Beans (Nov 30, 2020)

Marsen said:


> I don't think so at all, as BWW is incredible. Very hard to beat.



I recently picked up BWW. I severely misjudged it beforehand. I figured it would be very good, just not for me. 

I don't have favorite strings, brass, percussion, or piano. But I do have favorite woodwinds, now.


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 30, 2020)

Beans said:


> I recently picked up BWW. I severely misjudged it beforehand. I figured it would be very good, just not for me.
> 
> I don't have favorite strings, brass, percussion, or piano. But I do have favorite woodwinds, now.


What gave you second thoughts? Just curious


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Looking ahead, I could get CSW (with loyalty pricing) and PS Vista (random but a must-buy for me) together for basically the cost of buying BWW by itself. To me, it makes a lot more sense to just wait for CSW- Alex and the team have yet to let me down. If I had more money to spend, I'd gladly get both BWW and CSW


So, next fall? Maybe?


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 30, 2020)

Done.


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## Casiquire (Nov 30, 2020)

Marsen said:


> These are just some great versatile libraries.
> Don´t take it too seriously. Just let´s make some great music, whether with this or any other library.


This is *literally* life and death, you just don't understand me 😭


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> This is *literally* life and death, you just don't understand me 😭


If you can afford it, get it. Otherwise, wait until it ports to Sine and buy it in pieces if you haven't found something you like better that's less.


----------



## Beans (Nov 30, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> What gave you second thoughts? Just curious



My writing has improved fairly well this year for strings and brass. Maybe adequately so with percussion. But woodwinds, I kept avoiding usage except for simple purposes because I couldn't quite end up happy with the combination of my writing, libraries, and mixing.

Definitely, a great amount my fault. People do lovely work with the libraries I already had. I'm awful at mixing, and also too picky with the time I put into it.

So, honestly, the BWW purchase was a bit out of low grade frustration. I watched a Chris Siu video on BWW and listened to his playlist of his original tracks, and figured what the hell.

Turns out it just clicks with me.


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 30, 2020)

Its 4AM here... going to sleep... hope to wake up and find out it was all a dream



And if it won't be a dream, there better be an email or sms from Hans saying "hey man, would you mind helping me out and score the next Batman? because you know, you got all that Berlin thing... can we be best friends???"


----------



## emilio_n (Nov 30, 2020)

Moving between getting Afflatus or the Berlin libraries. 
I have CSS and CBS. I will get CSW for sure. I think I don't really need the Berlin series.
I have the Special Bows, Time Macro, Micro, Modus and ARK 1 and 2 so in other and I think have all in Tedex will be a great collection.
I have BBCSO getting dust on my hard drive...

Any recommendation?


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 30, 2020)

Beans said:


> My writing has improved fairly well this year for strings and brass. Maybe adequately so with percussion. But woodwinds, I kept avoiding usage except for simple purposes because I couldn't quite end up happy with the combination of my writing, libraries, and mixing.
> 
> Definitely, a great amount my fault. People do lovely work with the libraries I already had. I'm awful at mixing, and also too picky with the time I put into it.
> 
> ...


Me too. It feels so naturally balanced to me that I'm not left toying with the balance between instruments. It's weird how much that actually improves confidence in what I'm playing


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## NathanTiemeyer (Nov 30, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> So, next fall? Maybe?


Performance Samples' website still says Q4 2020 release for Vista and Alex says CSW should be out in December barring any setbacks ... if both of these are still not here by next fall then I don't know what I'm gonna do


----------



## MaxOctane (Nov 30, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> Moving between getting Afflatus or the Berlin libraries.
> I have CSS and CBS. I will get CSW for sure. I think I don't really need the Berlin series.
> I have the Special Bows, Time Macro, Micro, Modus and ARK 1 and 2 so in other and I think have all in Tedex will be a great collection.
> I have BBCSO getting dust on my hard drive...



Afflatus might be the most expensive library I have which gets next to no use. It's super "opinionated"... by design. The default mix is very in-your-face (this can probably be tamed by dialing the close and decca mics). The patches are individually beautiful and well recorded and expertly programmed, but actually _using_ them has escaped me.

Example:
* In the ensembles directory, the staccato patch (Heroine) is 22 strings, and the spiccato patch (Roofchase) is 22 strings, and they both go down to Vb low C.... but there's no Longs patch with 22 strings. You can combine the Vintage Vn1+Vn2 (14 violins) and Vintage Va+Vc (6+4) and that's a close match with 24 strings, but it's missing bass -- and not only that, but the cello only extends one octave below middle C! Barely any more range than viola. Ok, so you can enhance it with one of two Vb legato patches (6 or 2 basses), but then you need to dial the Vb way back to sit correctly. And you still have an octave of cello missing. So to summarize just this one problem: for Spicc and Stacc there's full ensemble patches across full range of keyboard, but for longs you have to multi 3 patches which don't balance well.

This kind of inconsistency in articulations and instrument ranges is really the central design of the library: each patch represents a sonic "scene", and it's not designed as every other bread-and-butter lib.


----------



## emilio_n (Nov 30, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> Afflatus might be the most expensive library I have which gets next to no use. It's super "opinionated"... by design. The default mix is very in-your-face (this can probably be tamed by dialing the close and decca mics). The patches are individually beautiful and well recorded and expertly programmed, but actually _using_ them has escaped me.
> 
> Example:
> * In the ensembles directory, the staccato patch (Heroine) is 22 strings, and the spiccato patch (Roofchase) is 22 strings, and they both go down to Vb low C.... but there's no Longs patch with 22 strings. You can combine the Vintage Vn1+Vn2 (14 violins) and Vintage Va+Vc (6+4) and that's a close match with 24 strings, but it's missing bass -- and not only that, but the cello only extends one octave below middle C! Barely any more range than viola. Ok, so you can enhance it with one of two Vb legato patches (6 or 2 basses), but then you need to dial the Vb way back to sit correctly. And you still have an octave of cello missing. So to summarize just this one problem: for Spicc and Stacc there's full ensemble patches across full range of keyboard, but for longs you have to multi 3 patches which don't balance well.
> ...


On paper sounds like an inspiring box of tricks but after your comment looks Afflatus is very limited about range and consistency. Thanks for your advice!
I guess that is better to continue with the things I have already.


----------



## coprhead6 (Nov 30, 2020)

I've had those nagging feelings about Afflatus as well. Also, as a string player myself, it seems like I would get easily frustrated with the lack of controls.


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Performance Samples' website still says Q4 2020 release for Vista and Alex says CSW should be out in December barring any setbacks ... if both of these are still not here by next fall then I don't know what I'm gonna do


Performance Samples will probably arrive when they say. I just joke about CSW because it's been coming any time now for at least a year.


----------



## jbuhler (Nov 30, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> Moving between getting Afflatus or the Berlin libraries.
> I have CSS and CBS. I will get CSW for sure. I think I don't really need the Berlin series.
> I have the Special Bows, Time Macro, Micro, Modus and ARK 1 and 2 so in other and I think have all in Tedex will be a great collection.
> I have BBCSO getting dust on my hard drive...
> ...


You are well provisioned. Write some music for awhile without buying new libraries and see where you are finding weaknesses in what your music needs and your current libraries are not delivering. Only then look for libraries to address that weakness.

I mean I tell myself this all the time, not that it does much good when confronted with all these shiny tools on special discount.


----------



## coprhead6 (Nov 30, 2020)

What have I done


----------



## NathanTiemeyer (Nov 30, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> What have I done


----------



## jbuhler (Nov 30, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> This kind of inconsistency in articulations and instrument ranges is really the central design of the library: each patch represents a sonic "scene", and it's not designed as every other bread-and-butter lib.


This is accurate I think, and you do have to adjust your workflow to the library. As scenes it is very inspiring. In that sense it is an excellent sketching library. You can quickly try an idea out with a number of sounds and move on from there.

what I find is that it supplements my other string libraries quite nicely. Afflatus has a large number of sweet spots and they are not in general the sweet spots of bread and butter string libraries, even very good ones. So there too it’s a nice addition. My only concern has been that it requires rethinking my workflow if I’m going to use it for more than sketching.


----------



## constaneum (Nov 30, 2020)

How would you compare Berlin Percussion with CinePerc? which one is better ?


----------



## jsnleo (Nov 30, 2020)

Damn I'm still holding off placing orders. I wanted to get all four when they're available in SINE but this 50% off sale really messes up my mind. I don't like using Kontakt (don't judge me please) so that I'm worried I won't be using them as much as I should. Spend $1,664.46 and wait until they're ported to SINE is ridiculous. And I know it's not gonna happen but what if a new Berlin series or Berlin 2.0 is coming?  

It was 40% off in 2018, and now it's 50% off, next time if it wouldn't be 60% off but eventually I believe we'll see 50% off again.


----------



## AlvinSWong (Nov 30, 2020)

Anyone else have problems with orchestraltools.com checkouts? Says payment not authorized from their site, but I get my banking alert said I did a transaction.


----------



## Casiquire (Nov 30, 2020)

constaneum said:


> How would you compare Berlin Percussion with CinePerc? which one is better ?


Same question!



coprhead6 said:


> What have I done


The same thing I've done...a big favor to yourself.


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2020)

constaneum said:


> How would you compare Berlin Percussion with CinePerc? which one is better ?


I have a number of perc libraries, including Cineperc. I haven't finished downloading BP yet, but based on the walkthrough, I compared some sounds to Cineperc. I like Teledex better for the most part. That said, Cineperc has some things BP doesn't have and BP has some things Cineperc doesn't have. The big selling point for me was the bass drums. BP has more and larger ones. I think they have more cymbals also, but I'm not sure they are better. But sound wise, other than the bass drums, it could go either way.


----------



## galactic orange (Nov 30, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> Afflatus might be the most expensive library I have which gets next to no use.


I’m so glad to read this after I bought it. ::sarcasm::
I haven’t downloaded yet so I hope I’ll find some use for it.


----------



## lgmcben (Nov 30, 2020)

Last day. Tips: just go to sleep and wake up on December 2nd.


----------



## galactic orange (Nov 30, 2020)

jsnleo said:


> And I know it's not gonna happen but what if a new Berlin series or Berlin 2.0 is coming?


More than this though, I’m thinking that the upcoming Abbey Road orchestral strings might be amazing. Maybe I should go for AROOF instead now and wait for those??


----------



## wlinart (Nov 30, 2020)

So i caved too...




I actually did the thing when looking what i was missing for my libraries. But that didn't help: i only have hollywood strings, cinestrings, iconica and spitfire epic strings. And for brass it's even worse: only iconica and cinebrass core. So now this will replace iconica. It will give me the seperate instruments for brass (which i absolutely love) and a load of articulations i don't have yet for the strings. I was thinking of not buying the strings, but Jono's walkthrough convinced me.
Luckily the percussion could be avoided, there's nothing in there which i don't already have thanks to cineperc.


----------



## galactic orange (Nov 30, 2020)

wlinart said:


> I actually did the thing when looking what i was missing for my libraries.





wlinart said:


> and a load of articulations i don't have yet for the strings.


That’s the perspective I’m coming from, except that I have Spitfire libraries that offer more articulations (SCS and SStS Pro) and I just think that they are better for different things. Glad to have them, but since I have the rest of the Berlin line, I might as well get the strings that offer more articulations and fit with them all. I’m talking myself into it again, aren’t I?


----------



## jsnleo (Nov 30, 2020)

Well I bought all four... Now I'm externally crying, internally bleeding... I hate you guys, I hate OT, but I hate myself even more...


----------



## Michael Antrum (Nov 30, 2020)

jsnleo said:


> Well I bought all four... Now I'm externally crying, internally bleeding... I hate you guys, I hate OT, but I hate myself even more...



The question is, will you still respect yourself in the morning.....?


----------



## MaxOctane (Nov 30, 2020)

I had zero interest in buying BWW 2 hours ago before I clicked this thread 

_edit: Oh, my old Inspire2 €50 loyalty voucher still works? Welp, here we go then..._


----------



## lgmcben (Nov 30, 2020)




----------



## coprhead6 (Nov 30, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> This thread today, the last day of this sale campaign.



My favorite movie!!!
And yeah, they got me Big Daddy


----------



## coprhead6 (Dec 1, 2020)

First impressions of Berlin Brass after a very hopeful bang-through:

I’m not that impressed with the legato patches. CSB still takes the cake!!

The dynamic range of the legatos and sustains is unsatisfyingly low compared to CSB but about equal to SSB.

The shorts sound absolutely incredible. The tone of low brass especially blows CSB away.

There are so many useful articulations that are difficult or impossible to replicate with SSB or CSB. The swells and repetitions are a revelation. 


CSB will remain my go-to library for exposed heroic/lyrical melodies and big brash stuff.
Berlin will be used for everything else  

I think they’re quite an amazing pair!


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 1, 2020)

jsnleo said:


> Well I bought all four... Now I'm externally crying, internally bleeding... I hate you guys, I hate OT, but I hate myself even more...




Love your avatar...


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 1, 2020)

lgmcben said:


>



You mean like this!


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 1, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> The question is, will you still respect yourself in the morning.....?



Lets see......

Me: _*dialing a phone number*_
Hans Zimmer: Hello?
Me: Hey Hans, its me. how are you bud? listen man, I'm honored that you want me to score the next Batman movie, but I'm not sure I can help you, you know, with all that Berlin stuff I'm in a different league now, the pay is much too low on this one. maybe its good for you, I'm not judging... ok listen, just because its you, I'll do it for 50% more, but don't tell anyone, ok?
Hans Zimmer: Who are you again?!


So, respect myself?
I'll let you be the judge of that


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 1, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> I still think OT’s next library will be Strings.
> RESIST



First of all it was inspiring to see how you resisted, one day I'll tell my grandchildren about you  

But the other thing is, lets assume OT will soon bring out a new flagship orchestral library, what do you think the price level will be? and how much do you really think your left kidney is worth?


----------



## Peter Satera (Dec 1, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> I still think OT’s next library will be Strings.
> RESIST



*ThErE's HoURs LeFFT! I'm GoINgg To MAk3 it!! I'm GoInG TO MaKE iT!!!*


----------



## easyrider (Dec 1, 2020)

What time does the sale End? Euro time.....


----------



## emilio_n (Dec 1, 2020)

easyrider said:


> What time does the sale End? Euro time.....


I am still thinking for last-minute impulse, I hope until midnight...


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## easyrider (Dec 1, 2020)

BWW is only 388 euro.....why am I hesitant.....

I have SSO and SStO pro


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## lgmcben (Dec 1, 2020)

You have less than 11 hours 😈


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## MGdepp (Dec 1, 2020)

easyrider said:


> BWW is only 388 euro.....why am I hesitant.....
> 
> I have SSO and SStO pro


Well, that should be a good enough reason to get BWW!


----------



## nickhmusic (Dec 1, 2020)

I've made the awful AWFUL decision to hold off on spending hundreds on a new library, it's so boring. I've been sensible. Ugh. WHYYYYYYYY? I wanted that dopamine hit, but I resisted, sweated, hallucinated. But I got through it.

On a serious note, I'm going to reorganise all my brass libraries by section, play through them all, figure out where I am missing something - and then head to the SINE player store and grab one or two gems from the Junkie XL library as and when I need.

Then I'm going to study more and learn how to write effectively for brass. That's much better.

(In the process of writing this I have left the internet and turned off all notifications announcing Black Friday extensions. I have also removed all caffeine from the building.)

As you were. Good luck my fellow music makers.


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 1, 2020)

easyrider said:


> BWW is only 388 euro.....why am I hesitant.....
> 
> I have SSO and SStO pro



If these are holding you back, then it's a deal.
If these are not holding you back, then it's fomo and will pass.


----------



## youngpokie (Dec 1, 2020)

easyrider said:


> BWW is only 388 euro.....why am I hesitant.....
> 
> I have SSO and SStO pro



You're hesitant because SStO pro doesn't count. Just admit it


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## easyrider (Dec 1, 2020)

youngpokie said:


> You're hesitant because SStO pro doesn't count. Just admit it




TBH I'm a huge SF fan....Love the sounds of the strings....But I also love the sound of BWW...


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## youngpokie (Dec 1, 2020)

easyrider said:


> TBH I'm a huge SF fan....Love the sounds of the strings....But I also love the sound of BWW...



_Last Xmas, I gave SStO Pro my heart. 
But the very next day (after download), they gave it away. 
This year, to save me from tears, I'll give it to someone special...._

I'm with you on SF strings. But woodwinds and brass from studio orchestra don't have a chance compared to Berlin woodwinds and brass. There, I said it...


----------



## easyrider (Dec 1, 2020)

youngpokie said:


> _Last Xmas, I gave SStO Pro my heart.
> But the very next day (after download), they gave it away.
> This year, to save me from tears, I'll give it to someone special...._
> 
> I'm with you on SF strings. But woodwinds and brass from studio orchestra doesn't have a chance compared to Berlin woodwinds and brass. There, I said it...



I have Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds, Brass and Strings too....


----------



## youngpokie (Dec 1, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I have Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds, Brass and Strings too....



And yet, here you are..... still looking for perfection, amirite??


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 1, 2020)

easyrider said:


> TBH I'm a huge SF fan....Love the sounds of the strings....But I also love the sound of BWW...


----------



## Casiquire (Dec 1, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> First impressions of Berlin Brass after a very hopeful bang-through:
> 
> I’m not that impressed with the legato patches. CSB still takes the cake!!
> 
> ...


Helpful hint if you need a quick burst of higher dynamic during a legato line, you can enable legato on the marcato patch. The downsides: it wasn't recorded for that purpose so the legato is just ok, and the sustain length is fairly short (not unlike actual players at ff, to be fair, but still very short). Upsides, that gives you a ff layer that mostly works just fine for all instruments but i find it especially helpful with the trumpets and with the low end of the trombones which sound absolutely massive.



wlinart said:


> So i caved too...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You had some great all-rounders but i do think this will be a step huge step up in articulations, and the libraries all fit together coherently. I think even with the flaws of the series you'll see a big advantage from getting these. You might even feel like they'll hold you over for a while when you're feeling GAS haha. I'm not as familiar with the Sony sound but from the demos I've heard i think your Cineseries stuff will sit right next to the Berlin stuff with little fuss


----------



## river angler (Dec 1, 2020)

There will definitely be another sale on the Berlin Series at least as far as its Kontakt version is concerned more likely from Native Instruments considering OT are keen to plough on with pushing the envelope with SINE. I think the same can be said for all their other current Kontakt only based libraries.

I for one passed this time round partly because I'm running everything on an i7 MacBook Pro with a maxed out 16Gig or RAM but more as I am and have been very content with Berlin Orchestra Inspire 1 & 2 as my only main orchestral library for the last two years. Any further articulations/legato patches I really want I'm sure I'll be able to buy them singularly from the OT website once the Berlin Series are ported over to SINE... OR from a brand new top dog full orchestral library series I strongly suspect they have in the works!


----------



## wlinart (Dec 1, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> You had some great all-rounders but i do think this will be a step huge step up in articulations, and the libraries all fit together coherently. I think even with the flaws of the series you'll see a big advantage from getting these. You might even feel like they'll hold you over for a while when you're feeling GAS haha. I'm not as familiar with the Sony sound but from the demos I've heard i think your Cineseries stuff will sit right next to the Berlin stuff with little fuss


Yes indeed. I kind of considered iconica to be the budget Berlin series. Also made by orchestral tools, also very coherent. But this is just the next step for me. And the cinesamples strings just didn't fit with me. So this will be my new all-round orchestra for the next years to come. And i'll probably sell iconica to fund this.


----------



## X-Bassist (Dec 1, 2020)

river angler said:


> There will definitely be another sale on the Berlin Series at least as far as its Kontakt version is concerned more likely from Native Instruments considering OT are keen to plough on with pushing the envelope with SINE. I think the same can be said for all their other current Kontakt only based libraries.
> 
> I for one passed this time round partly because I'm running everything on an i7 MacBook Pro with a maxed out 16Gig or RAM but more as I am and have been very content with BOI 1 & 2 as my only main orchestral library for the last two years. Any further articulations/legato patches I really want I'm sure I'll be able to by them singularly from the OT website once the Berlin Series are ported over to SINE... OR from a brand new top tog library I strongly suspect they have in the works!


I'm betting there will be a Berlin bundle sale before the Kontakt version disappears, might be OT or NI, in the neighborhood of $599 for all the Berlin stuff (and possibly expansions). I know it sounds crazy, but every once in a while sales like that come along. But they are short then it's gone forever. 

RIP : Cinesamples Abbey Roads Pianos

Also, Sometimes the "newer" libraries are not the same (wish I had earlier versions of Cinebrass) and the older patches play smoother on the newer machines as time goes on. So Berlin may ripen and improve with age, considering one of the only downsides is Ram needed and CPU (Only 400GB Ram to load the whole series? Awesome! I'll use my old laptop!"


----------



## NathanTiemeyer (Dec 1, 2020)

river angler said:


> There will definitely be another sale on the Berlin Series at least as far as its Kontakt version is concerned more likely from Native Instruments considering OT are keen to plough on with pushing the envelope with SINE. I think the same can be said for all their other current Kontakt only based libraries.



Great point, totally forgetting that BWW will mostly liked be ported to SINE and then we can just buy the individual instruments we need to supplement existing WW libraries. 
Now I feel like a genius for just waiting to buy CSW!


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 1, 2020)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Now I feel like a genius for just waiting to buy CSW!


I think you can't lose either way, and if I didn't have either right now I would wait for CSW. It's just around the corner so you are making a good call.

I, however, caved and got Berlin Strings and must hold my head in shame. Congrats to all those who held out. Nevertheless, my Special Bows will now be in good company!


----------



## Kevinside (Dec 1, 2020)

Will CSW ever be released... I mean even Audio Bro brings is new Modern Scoring Bra (i mean strings...strings of course)


----------



## lgmcben (Dec 1, 2020)

galactic orange said:


> Nevertheless, my Special Bows will now be in good company!



That special bows deal earlier this month was indeed a NI x OT coordinated attack


----------



## wlinart (Dec 1, 2020)

X-Bassist said:


> I'm betting there will be a Berlin bundle sale before the Kontakt version disappears, might be OT or NI, in the neighborhood of $599 for all the Berlin stuff (and possibly expansions). I know it sounds crazy, but every once in a while sales like that come along. But they are short then it's gone forever.


of course i'm also saying this to myself to justify me buying it, but i think personally that this the sale before the kontakt version dissapears.


----------



## Beans (Dec 1, 2020)

X-Bassist said:


> I'm betting there will be a Berlin bundle sale before the Kontakt version disappears, might be OT or NI, in the neighborhood of $599 for all the Berlin stuff (and possibly expansions). I know it sounds crazy, but every once in a while sales like that come along. But they are short then it's gone forever.
> 
> RIP : Cinesamples Abbey Roads Pianos
> 
> Also, Sometimes the "newer" libraries are not the same (wish I had earlier versions of Cinebrass) and the older patches play smoother on the newer machines as time goes on. So Berlin may ripen and improve with age, considering one of the only downsides is Ram needed and CPU (Only 400GB Ram to load the whole series? Awesome! I'll use my old laptop!"



Didn't someone in this thread quote OT staff, noting that there is likely *not *to be such another sale?


----------



## Eptesicus (Dec 1, 2020)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Great point, totally forgetting that BWW will mostly liked be ported to SINE and then we can just buy the individual instruments we need to supplement existing WW libraries.
> Now I feel like a genius for just waiting to buy CSW!



Same. I am waiting for CSW. From the audio demos they played, it sounds incredible and i like that it includes bass clarinet and contra.

Also, as pointed out earlier, it is highly unlikely that this will be the only time they have these at 50% off (or even more). Sure, it may be a while or may be until next black friday again, but im sure they will have a similar promotion at some point. At full price, they arent that competitive with other manufacturers and that will only get more true as they age.


----------



## Eptesicus (Dec 1, 2020)

Beans said:


> Didn't someone in this thread quote OT staff, noting that there likely is *not *to be such another sale?



Never listen to a salesman.

Ever.


----------



## Kevinside (Dec 1, 2020)

What will happen first... CSW or BWW converted to Sine?


----------



## Beans (Dec 1, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Never listen to a salesman.
> 
> Ever.



That's terrible life advice and introduces risk of missing many details that could increase/decrease expenses over time.


----------



## emilio_n (Dec 1, 2020)

Beans said:


> That's terrible life advice and introduces risk of missing many details that could increase/decrease expenses over time.


Agree...
The right sentence should be: Don't believe all that a salesman tells you about his product 
"Probably" is a very elastic word.


----------



## Eptesicus (Dec 1, 2020)

Beans said:


> That's terrible life advice and introduces risk of missing many details that could increase/decrease expenses over time.



Sorry, it was a bit simplified/not meant to be taken literally. 

Perhaps, 'don't believe everything a salesman tells you" would be better.


Edit - someone beat me to it


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 1, 2020)

I personally don't think NI will do a bundle sale with the main orchestral libraries. Even at 65% off, the usual bundle discount, it will still be over $1,000. They like the bundles to be around $500. 

I do believe we may get the soloists or other extended libraries in a NI bundle sale. Unfortunately, they tend to bundle them with things I've gotten in previous bundle sales. So not much of a deal to me. NI sales are typically 50% on the non-bundled items.


----------



## Beans (Dec 1, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Sorry, it was a bit simplified/not meant to be taken literally.
> 
> Perhaps, 'don't believe everything a salesman tells you" would be better.
> 
> ...



"Use everything you know about the salesperson and company and market to make your own assessment as to how you will react to their output."

Or, UEYKATSACAMTMYOAATHYWRTTO.


----------



## coprhead6 (Dec 1, 2020)

Beans said:


> Or, UEYKATSACAMTMYOAATHYWRTTO.



Omg it’s in your signature


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 1, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> they tend to bundle them with things I've gotten in previous bundle sales.


This is why I don't really care about the NI bundle deals anymore.
Because they don't have a "complete your bundle" offer. (in that regard, I like Spitfire)
For example, I remember they were doing an Ark3+4 bundle but past since I already own Ark3.
If they had a complete-your-bundle offer, I probably would have bought it.


----------



## lgmcben (Dec 1, 2020)

If SINE versions will be announced soon, this is basically your last chance to get Kontakt version for 50% off AND SINE versions for free.

I got Inspire 1+2 for $349 (63% off in NI bundle deals) and got SINE versions for free after that. Amazing value.

Note: Kontakt version will continue to work even after you get SINE version.


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 1, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> If SINE versions will be announced soon, this is basically your last chance to get Kontakt version for 50% off AND SINE versions for free.
> 
> I got Inspire 1+2 for $349 (63% off in NI bundle deals) and got SINE versions for free after that. Amazing value.
> 
> Note: Kontakt version will continue to work even after you get SINE version.


Was it an additional 10% of the library price to get the Kontakt version if you bought a library after its SINE version release? (I know if you buy it before SINE version releases, you get it for free)

I'm not sure what kind of customizable features SINE will be having in the future, but there might be a case where you'd appreciate the customizability of the Kontakt version (with of course, for the price a bit more RAM consumption).


----------



## youngpokie (Dec 1, 2020)

Raphioli said:


> Was it an additional 10% of the library price to get the Kontakt version if you bought a library after its SINE version release? (I know if you buy it before SINE version releases, you get it for free)
> 
> I'm not sure what kind of customizable features SINE will be having in the future, but there might be a case where you'd appreciate the customizability of the Kontakt version (with of course, for the price a bit more RAM consumption).



Indeed, that's what the website currently says about Inspire - 10% upgrade fee for Sine due to bandwith or whatever costs...


----------



## lgmcben (Dec 1, 2020)

Raphioli said:


> I'm not sure what kind of customizable features SINE will be having in the future, but there might be a case where you'd appreciate the customizability of the Kontakt version (with of course, for the price a bit more RAM consumption).



Exactly. Even if OT won't update Kontakt version anymore, the Kontakt player itself will continue to improve. And you can take advantage of that if you own both versions (for 50% the price of one)


----------



## VSriHarsha (Dec 1, 2020)

Beans said:


> That's terrible life advice and introduces risk of missing many details that could increase/decrease expenses over time.


Well, I believe that. I don’t listen to the salesmen. They have their reasons & I have mine. Well, customers do. What matters to me is if I like it or not. It’s like well, there are some great movies & there are people who like & who doesn’t. And you don’t even know why but they have their reasons.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 1, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> Exactly. Even if OT won't update Kontakt version anymore, the Kontakt player itself will continue to improve. And you can take advantage of that if you own both versions (for 50% the price of one)


There are people who still use the original Kontakt versions of EW libraries. It sure caused a big ruckus when NI stated they could no longer support them. They had to back down and come up with a way to do it.


----------



## X-Bassist (Dec 1, 2020)

Beans said:


> Didn't someone in this thread quote OT staff, noting that there is likely *not *to be such another sale?


That's what staff said before a big OT where things were discounted and they were not told in advance. Besides, this could be NI which OT staff would not know about, they are just talking about OT.

I still think there will be a sale. And yes it would have to be 85% off or more to hit $599 for everything, but that's my threshold where I would jump. Otherwise I'll wait a few years to see if the Sine version becomes something more.

I just hope I'm not away when it happens. I know the huge discount will indicate their contract with NI is coming to an end. The patches will work for a long time to come, but purchasing them may end.


----------



## Frederick (Dec 1, 2020)

Okay, I gave in and got the Woodwinds. At least I stayed strong with the percussion and the brass.


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 1, 2020)

The whole Berlin for $599?
Am I on http://www.vi-crack.net??? (www.vi-crack.net???)


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 1, 2020)

Personally, think CSW, MSS, and Opus are worth waiting for given they are more recent developments in terms of scripting, etc. Also, all will be out within the next ~2 months.


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 1, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> It sure caused a big ruckus when NI stated they could no longer support them. They had to back down and come up with a way to do it.


Good thing it did cause a big ruckus. 
Now NI knows what'll happen if they stop supporting a major library.
So I don't think something like that would happen in the future.
Especially since companies like Spitfire and OT are coming up with their own player.
The last thing they would want is probably more companies coming up with their own samplers. (which is probably a huge loss in license fees for NI)


----------



## Ashermusic (Dec 1, 2020)

Just a quick word here about me and OT and then please back to the discussion.

You rarely see me recommending their stuff. One might assume that is because I don't like OT or think that their libraries aren't really as good as others, but that is absolutely _not_ the case.

It's because:
1. I have a ton of competing products already that I am happy with.
2. They are a bit on the pricey side.

But let me be clear in _emphatically_ stating that I believe that they make great libraries, and Hendrik and Tobias are splendid fellows.


----------



## Beans (Dec 1, 2020)

I had a recent interaction with Tobias and it was delightful in its brevity.


----------



## transverb (Dec 1, 2020)

Tobias was great to work with yesterday. +1 

I might give Berlin Strings a miss and snipe some a-la-cart items. Did I really just write that?! What is wrong with me. 🙃


----------



## Christopher Rocky (Dec 1, 2020)

Another thing that's worth mentioning is that once the series is ported to sine, There most likely will be a bundled price for the sine versions. if you look at the website now all their sine products are bundled.


----------



## river angler (Dec 1, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> If SINE versions will be announced soon, this is basically your last chance to get Kontakt version for 50% off AND SINE versions for free.
> 
> I got Inspire 1+2 for $349 (63% off in NI bundle deals) and got SINE versions for free after that. Amazing value.
> 
> Note: Kontakt version will continue to work even after you get SINE version.


Its under €100 to get the SINE license version if you already own Kontakt libraries bought after their SINE release so what you say here is far less dramatic!

And anyway I'm sure they will be at the very least updating the Berlin Series if they aren't already busy procuring a replacement series 

...out of interest as a very content fellow BOI 1 & 2 user have you yourself stuck with the Inspire series or have you actually gone for this current deal?...!


----------



## easyrider (Dec 1, 2020)

How much was the inspire sale for at NI recently?


----------



## river angler (Dec 1, 2020)

easyrider said:


> How much was the inspire sale for at NI recently?


I can't remember but certainly not as generous as the €349 for the bundled series 1 & 2 in 2017/18.


----------



## easyrider (Dec 1, 2020)

I can get a 25% edu discount so I think I might wait for the Berlin to port to sine and bundle it...


----------



## emilio_n (Dec 1, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I can get a 25% edu discount so I think I might wait for the Berlin to port to sine and bundle it...


Not sure if you can use the EDU discount on bundles, but for sure not with the bundles with the introductory price.


----------



## easyrider (Dec 1, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> Not sure if you can use the EDU discount on bundles, but for sure not with the bundles with the introductory price.



just added the Inspire bundle to my basket...yep edu works...comes to €494 inc Vat...

€247 each


----------



## emilio_n (Dec 1, 2020)

easyrider said:


> just added the Inspire bundle to my basket...yep edu works...comes to €494 inc Vat...
> 
> €247 each


Good to know! Thanks! I can use EDU discount too.


----------



## easyrider (Dec 1, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> Good to know! Thanks! I can use EDU discount too.



is this cheaper than the latest NI Sale?


----------



## Jett Hitt (Dec 1, 2020)

Not sure what’s up with the OT download center. I’ve been downloading BWW for 24 hours, and it is just at 12%. Top speed seems to be about 2 Mbps. There must be a lot of last minute purchases being downloaded.


----------



## emilio_n (Dec 1, 2020)

easyrider said:


> is this cheaper than the latest NI Sale?


I am not sure. I got the Special Bows + Time libraries during the last NI sales. The only thing I remember is that they sell each Inspire with 50% discount.


----------



## MaxOctane (Dec 1, 2020)

Jett Hitt said:


> Not sure what’s up with the OT download center. I’ve been downloading BWW for 24 hours, and it is just at 12%. Top speed seems to be about 2 Mbps. There must be a lot of last minute purchases being downloaded.



It downloads from Amazon S3. There's no way our little sample-library traffic is making a dent. But try going into the options in the Continuata Connect app and enable the "Multi" download. That might help.


----------



## Jett Hitt (Dec 1, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> It downloads from Amazon S3. There's no way our little sample-library traffic is making a dent. But try going into the options in the Continuata Connect app and enable the "Multi" download. That might help.


Thanks I’ll do that. Berlin Strings downloaded without a hitch a couple of days ago.


----------



## easyrider (Dec 1, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> I am not sure. I got the Special Bows + Time libraries during the last NI sales. The only thing I remember is that they sell each Inspire with 50% discount.



I don’t think they were less than 230 each ....the cynical side of me thinks OT are getting rid of NI serials of a legacy product...it’s clear they want people to jump on the Sine train due to the bundle pricing


----------



## lgmcben (Dec 1, 2020)

river angler said:


> Its under €100 to get the SINE license version if you already own Kontakt libraries bought after their SINE release so what you say here is far less dramatic!
> 
> And anyway I'm sure they will be at the very least updating the Berlin Series if they aren't already busy procuring a replacement series
> 
> ...out of interest as a very content fellow BOI 1 & 2 user have you yourself stuck with the Inspire series or have you actually gone for this current deal?...!


I tried but can't resist in the end. Just the BWW though. 🎅


----------



## andyhy (Dec 1, 2020)

In the end I couldn't resist the 50% for BWW and BB. BWW was a slow download and for some reason kept stopping and the Connect monitoring window disappearing. If that happens to you my recommendation is don't touch any of the downloaded files, just restart Connect and it will automatically pick up where it left off. Although I picked up CSB during the BF long weekend I decided that BB would work well with it. BB handles the low end well and CSB seems to command the upper dynamics and would be a quick way to sketch ideas. I'm now downloading BB. Playing with BWW yesterday it was quite a revelation how realistic the instruments sound. For those still interested note that the 50% offer ends midnight Los Angeles time (now ended).

Due to the Philippines lockdown regulations and my age (72) I'm going to be stuck in the house for maybe another year so my wife has been very supportive in allowing me to push the boat out on BF deals. I think I'd go nuts otherwise. Hope to make good progress up the learning curve and then maybe, emphasise maybe, look for another composer with whom to collaborate. I suddenly realised that if you can be US president at the age of 74 I should make the most of the opportunities to compose.

My thanks to all contributors to VI Control. It has helped me tremendously to decide what tools I need.


----------



## emilio_n (Dec 1, 2020)

Finally I let go the offer...
I bought a couple of interesting courses to improve my writing and upgraded BBSO to Pro. I know is not there same, but I will try to focus this year on study and control my GAS


----------



## reids (Dec 1, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> I tried but can't resist in the end. Just the BWW though. 🎅


The clock is ticking for you to get the Strings, Brass, and Percussion as well. Last chance buy at half off and it wont happen again. You know you want it.


----------



## lgmcben (Dec 1, 2020)

reids said:


> The clock is ticking for you to get the Strings, Brass, and Percussion as well. Last chance buy at half off and it wont happen again. You know you want it.


Yes I do. If I have enough money I'd get them all. Sadly that's not the case. 😂


----------



## coprhead6 (Dec 1, 2020)

Whelp, I'm continuing to get sucked down the black hole....
Trying to resist Berlin Percussion to round out BB and BWW. 
I like Spitfire Joby Burgess, but sometimes it's too wet and some of the release samples are buggy.

I'm definitely getting the Spitfire AR modular library in the future though. I think I can make do...


----------



## andyhy (Dec 1, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> Finally I let go the offer...
> I bought a couple of interesting courses to improve my writing and upgraded BBSO to Pro. I know is not there same, but I will try to focus this year on study and control my GAS


Initially I was also only aiming to upgrade from BBCSO Core to Professional but in the end my resistance to the Berlin 50% offer was weak so I ended up doing that as well. I'll spread the credit card cost over the next year of COVID confinement here. I think you're wise to focus on the courses.


----------



## borisb2 (Dec 1, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> Trying to resist Berlin Percussion to round out BB and BWW.


get Berlin Percussion now! .. I'm downloading at the moment


----------



## andyhy (Dec 1, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> I tried but can't resist in the end. Just the BWW though. 🎅


You won't regret it. The sound is amazing. Just note my previous comments on the download app disappearing and if the same happens to you just restart the Connect app.


----------



## Jett Hitt (Dec 1, 2020)

andyhy said:


> BWW was a slow download and for some reason kept stopping and the Connect monitoring window disappearing. If that happens to you my recommendation is don't touch any of the downloaded files, just restart Connect and it will automatically pick up where it left off.



^^This^^

If you're downloading BWW, beware, it is painfully slow. I am at 26 hours, and it has only downloaded 14%. Restarting the download helps, but at best, I seem to get about 4 Mbps. I am not on blazing fast internet, but I should easily be able to get 10 Mbps through the night. I awoke this morning to find it crawling at .8 Mbps.


----------



## jsnleo (Dec 1, 2020)

OMG the sale is still on? They have to take our money, don't they?


----------



## ZeeCount (Dec 1, 2020)

I caved...


----------



## Instrugramm (Dec 1, 2020)

In the end I only got BS (I already own BWW and JXL) but was very tempted to get BP. With BP though it's only the bass drum that really impresses me, so I'll get those patches once it's ported to SINE. I already Have Cineperc, Tundra, HZP Pro, Originals Cinematic Percussion, AROOF, BBCSO Discover, Jaeger and Symphony Essentials Percussion... so I have plenty of orchestral percussion. Still, it was really hard to resist.


----------



## borisb2 (Dec 1, 2020)

so I would be interested: after logging into your OT-account, who is still able to show this picture?


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 1, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> Whelp, I'm continuing to get sucked down the black hole....
> Trying to resist Berlin Percussion to round out BB and BWW.
> I like Spitfire Joby Burgess, but sometimes it's too wet and some of the release samples are buggy.
> 
> I'm definitely getting the Spitfire AR modular library in the future though. I think I can make do...


I'd actually recommend if you have a good perc library to wait until it ports to Sine and just buy the bass drums. BP is good, but the bass drums are what really sold me. 

If you don't have a good perc library, this is good.


----------



## lgmcben (Dec 1, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> so I would be interested: after logging into your OT-account, who is still able to show this picture?


Try asking again after the sale campaign ended 😈


----------



## lgmcben (Dec 1, 2020)

Less than 30 minutes to go...


----------



## Frederick (Dec 2, 2020)

The sale is gone! Waiting for the VSL December deals though...


----------



## lgmcben (Dec 2, 2020)

Coming up: 
Berlin Series 2.0 announcement for SINE only. No crossgrade because it's a different product.

/s


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 2, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I'd actually recommend if you have a good perc library to wait until it ports to Sine and just buy the bass drums. BP is good, but the bass drums are what really sold me.
> 
> If you don't have a good perc library, this is good.



What got me in BP was the snares, particularly the video that showed the Majestic 14" with the quad snare levers??? what a beauty😍
When I saw they sampled it in all four ways? I was sold, that shows super attention to detail and care. actually that sold me on the whole Berlin lib.... but that snare... the drummer in me couldn't resist!


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 2, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


>



You should buy some drums for your cymbals kit 😃
Nice


----------



## easyrider (Dec 2, 2020)

I resisted...I'll wait for the sine Bundle and play with all the libraries I bought over the last few months...

EWC
BBSO Pro
Orchestral Swarm
Percussion Swarm
Nucleus
Jaeger
Areia
SSO
Cinesamples Strings, Brass,Woodwinds, Cineperc


----------



## novaburst (Dec 2, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> Afflatus might be the most expensive library I have which gets next to no use.



I was looking very deeply at the content in this library, and concluded if I grabbed this I don't think I would use over half the content of the library but still appreciate that others with a broad sence of writing will love it

I think what made me feel un easy was things like saxophone mixed in to some string patches, and nothing went above 3 dynamic layers, and I found it veryy difficult to work out a simple traditional orchestral layout, with all the content on offer, 

While the sound and tone is out of this world, the way the library is put together is far from traditional and preferable to performances, I could only see my self using very little of the library,


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 2, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> You should buy some drums for your cymbals kit 😃
> Nice



I started drumming when I was 6 and even though drums are my born passion, guitars became my main instrument. about 4-5 years ago I saw a video of a 14y/o Japanese girl that drummed like a mature 30-40 y/o man which blew my mind and decided I must have at least a small drum set around.
The funny story is that I told my mom that I began drumming again, but until she came to visit, the drum set grew lol
When she saw it the first time she said "Son I'm happy for you, I know how much you loved drumming, what a lovely drum set... but why did you get the small one?"

Yup, she's the blame for my sarcasm!


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 2, 2020)

@Hendrixon nice one! Love it.

Slight jealousy here. I played guitar for *cough 40 years until medical problems shafted that.
I always wanted to play drums first. Parents wouldn’t allow it. So a few years back I achieved that dream and bought an electronic kit. I was so happy, really practiced hard... but I sucked so bad 😬
My old drummer came around to help. He listened, he watched, he then said “how much do you want for it?” Haha so his kid has that kit now.


----------



## Eptesicus (Dec 2, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> so I would be interested: after logging into your OT-account, who is still able to show this picture?



Me! I made it!


----------



## A.N.D.I (Dec 2, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> Coming up:
> Berlin Series 2.0 announcement for SINE only. No crossgrade because it's a different product.
> 
> /s


A new library with new content?


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 2, 2020)

A.N.D.I said:


> A new library with new content?



He's joking...


----------



## A.N.D.I (Dec 2, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> He's joking...





Hendrixon said:


> He's joking...


That's a shame because a few hours ago I was ready to order BS, BB and BWW. But I was too late :(


----------



## A.N.D.I (Dec 2, 2020)

But maybe there is really a new big library in the making. How old is the Berlin range now?

Do you think with moving the Berlin Series to Sine things like bumpy legatos or unevenly shorts will be improved?


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 2, 2020)

I think Junkie XL Strings is at least under development.
But I don't think the amount of articulations will be any close to Berlin Strings though.
Because if you compare Berlin Brass and Junkie XL Brass, its obvious.
But each of them have their own things they shine at.


----------



## Beans (Dec 2, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I resisted...I'll wait for the sine Bundle and play with all the libraries I bought over the last few months...
> 
> EWC
> BBSO Pro
> ...



Woah, that's a nice haul. Just remember that you're going to find things you don't like about each, even the best of them. EWC is practically perfect, for example, but even it has volume balancing issues between a few patches.

Most importantly, *all the things you didn't buy also have their own quirks.*

So, don't feel jealous about Berlin Strings when you find inconsistency with CineStrings or excessive "AIR" with SSO that you can't remove, because if you had Berlin Strings you'd be fighting some tuning issues or who knows what else.


----------



## jsnleo (Dec 2, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> Coming up:
> Berlin Series 2.0 announcement for SINE only. No crossgrade because it's a different product.
> 
> /s



Then I’d kill myself.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer (Dec 2, 2020)

Me after resisting to buy anything during this sale


----------



## MaxOctane (Dec 2, 2020)

So, buying anything from Berlin series wasn't even on my radar -- then I started reading this thread Monday night and two hours later had picked up BWW. Mind you, I spent _hours and hours_ over thanksgiving break evaluating Abbey Road One and Aperture Orchestra (passed), but BWW at 50% was a quick purchase.

Now yesterday, comparing BWW to Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds (which I've been overall happy with), it's as good as everyone's been saying. Kinda wish I'd gone for the strings too...


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 2, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> So, buying anything from Berlin series wasn't even on my radar -- then I started reading this thread Monday night and two hours later had picked up BWW. Mind you, I spent _hours and hours_ over thanksgiving break evaluating Abbey Road One and Aperture Orchestra (passed), but BWW at 50% was a quick purchase.
> 
> Now yesterday, comparing BWW to Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds (which I've been overall happy with), it's as good as everyone's been saying. Kinda wish I'd gone for the strings too...



I also passed on AR1 cause I wasn't ready to put $350 (at intro!) on a library that in my view has thin amount of content for the price.
Some ppl wrote that its a steal and no brainer in that price, like implying that others "make noise" cause they can't afford it. funny, cause as a broke noise maker I just spent almost $1700US on Berlin 

Btw, I was also going back and forth between BWW and SSW, but decided in the end to go for the whole Berlin set with BWW, so I'm glad you find BWW as good as been said. I'm short on disk space so didn't download any of the Berlins yet.

Edit:
Or should I say "I'm broke on disk space"?


----------



## Kevperry777 (Dec 2, 2020)

And did anyone else see their Facebook page? 

“The bad news: Our Black Friday offer is over.
But the good news is, anyone who purchased a Berlin series main collection will get the SINE version absolutely free when it's available. We'll keep you posted on when to expect the Berlin series on SINE.“


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 2, 2020)

Kevperry777 said:


> And did anyone else see their Facebook page?
> 
> “The bad news: Our Black Friday offer is over.
> But the good news is, anyone who purchased a Berlin series main collection will get the SINE version absolutely free when it's available. We'll keep you posted on when to expect the Berlin series on SINE.“


Sounds like the Sine version may be coming soon.


----------



## easyrider (Dec 2, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Sounds like the Sine version may be coming soon.



Ill buy the bundle then with the edu discount....


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 2, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Sounds like the Sine version may be coming soon.



All signs point that it's at least in the works and in advanced state.
Impressive.

Btw, how long ago OT introduced first lib on SINE and comparably Spitfire with their player?


----------



## wlinart (Dec 2, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Sounds like the Sine version may be coming soon.


i don't know where i read it , but i read something like next year


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 2, 2020)

Someone on their FB wrote:
"excellent library. Bought with less % but happy anyway. Definitely waiting for SINE version! And for completion...."
And later wrote again:
"When will the next completion days be?"

Anyone knows what he means?


----------



## Chungus (Dec 2, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Someone on their FB wrote:
> "excellent library. Bought with less % but happy anyway. Definitely waiting for SINE version! And for completion...."
> And later wrote again:
> "When will the next completion days be?"
> ...


Completion days sales are sales on the expansion libraries, which were 30% off both times they were held. We didn't get any this year, though.

As for this question;


Hendrixon said:


> Btw, how long ago OT introduced first lib on SINE and comparably Spitfire with their player?


The first Sine lib was JXL brass, which I believe launched on the Dec 11th of last year. Don't know about Spitfire.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 2, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> All signs point that it's at least in the works and in advanced state.
> Impressive.
> 
> Btw, how long ago OT introduced first lib on SINE and comparably Spitfire with their player?


I want to say the beginning of 2019? The first big NI sales were at the end of 2018 and I seem to remember it happened soon after.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 2, 2020)

Chungus said:


> Completion days sales are sales on the expansion libraries, which were 30% off both times they were held. We didn't get any this year, though.
> 
> As for this question;
> 
> The first Sine lib was JXL brass, which I believe launched on the Dec 11th of last year. Don't know about Spitfire.


Spitfire started with their LABS libraries in the new player a while ago. The first library was HZ Strings if I remember correctly.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 2, 2020)

1


Hendrixon said:


> Someone on their FB wrote:
> "excellent library. Bought with less % but happy anyway. Definitely waiting for SINE version! And for completion...."
> And later wrote again:
> "When will the next completion days be?"
> ...



They will work out how long you wallet needs to recover.....

The main Berlin libraries are just the start...


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 2, 2020)

I'll answer my own question:
SA - 02/2018 (HZS)
OT - 12/2019 (JXLB)

OT introduced sine 10 months after SA, yet they back ported several big libs to sine (and working on their biggest one now) while SA ported none. how many ppl work at OT?

Another parameter that makes you think is that sine is multitimbral and SA player is not.
Why?


----------



## wlinart (Dec 2, 2020)

i think the reason is easy: orchestral tools only released something when they were very happy with it, after a much more intensive development period


----------



## Beans (Dec 2, 2020)

Mic Merge from SINE would be so amazing for the Berlin series.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

OT's Berlin series running in SINE will be a big improvement. Can't wait to use these wonderful sounding libraries in SINE.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 2, 2020)

But, Sine is only VST/AU. SA also has AAX. This is a big thing for me as I primarily work in ProTools.


----------



## Kevperry777 (Dec 2, 2020)

The Berlin libraries a la carte would be...just....amazing.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> But, Sine is only VST/AU. SA also has AAX. This is a big thing for me as I primarily work in ProTools.



Since I don't use ProTools, I never check the AAX compatibility. But if you are a ProTools user, yes, I see this is an issue. Did you ask OT if they have plans to add AAX compatibility in the future ? 

You can always have a second DAW to fix this.


----------



## Marsen (Dec 2, 2020)

Could please one of the owners of BS confirm, that there is a terrible bump on E2 in the celli multipatch dynamics, first articulation?


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 2, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Since I don't use ProTools, I never check the AAX compatibility. But if you are a ProTools user, yes, I see this is an issue. Did you ask OT if they have plans to add AAX compatibility in the future ?
> 
> You can always have a second DAW to fix this.


It is one of the few reasons I haven't tossed Cubase in the garbage. OT said the would eventually have AAX, but I've heard from others that Avid requires some kind of certification or something to get AAX encoding. May not be worth it at this point.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> It is one of the few reasons I haven't tossed Cubase in the garbage. OT said the would eventually have AAX, but I've heard from others that Avid requires some kind of certification or something to get AAX encoding. May not be worth it at this point.



What makes you use ProTools as your primary DAW ?


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 2, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> What makes you use ProTools as your primary DAW ?


First DAW I really learnt. Very easy for me to use. And when I take classes at the local community college, that is what they use. And it does everything I really need it to do.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 2, 2020)

novaburst said:


> I was looking very deeply at the content in this library, and concluded if I grabbed this I don't think I would use over half the content of the library but still appreciate that others with a broad sence of writing will love it
> 
> I think what made me feel un easy was things like saxophone mixed in to some string patches, and nothing went above 3 dynamic layers, and I found it veryy difficult to work out a simple traditional orchestral layout, with all the content on offer,
> 
> While the sound and tone is out of this world, the way the library is put together is far from traditional and preferable to performances, I could only see my self using very little of the library,


Who knows how Afflatus will pan out in the long term for use, but so far I'm really enjoying the library and it complements what I have for the most part rather than duplicating. I've already found it to be an exceptional library to write with. Sketching, yes, but more than that because you can try things out in a variety of polyphonic legato ensemble patches and then move to breaking them out in sections. But the articulations are limited, so it's a bit hard to use the library comprehensively, as it in turn needs lots of supplementation, either from one of its other string libraries or often from other libraries altogether. So in terms of workflow, I'm still trying to determine how to best make that transition from early work to final mock-up. 

In limited work with layering, I've found it plays nicely with with my various Spitfire strings, so that bodes well for finding a solution to the workflow challenges.


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 2, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> But, Sine is only VST/AU. SA also has AAX. This is a big thing for me as I primarily work in ProTools.



AAX? for me SINE runs just fine, so it must be your system. nothing is wrong with SINE or OT.
_"But, Sine is only VST/AU. This is a big thing for me as I primarily work in ProTools."_
And who's fault is that?
Computers today are cheap, just buy another pc or mac, install cubase and run it there.













* Typical vi-c response.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 2, 2020)

Marsen said:


> Could please one of the owners of BS confirm, that there is a terrible bump on E2 in the celli multipatch dynamics, first articulation?


Yup, I have it too.


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 2, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> First DAW I really learnt. Very easy for me to use. And when I take classes at the local community college, that is what they use. And it does everything I really need it to do.



Isn't there a VST>AAX rapper?


----------



## stabsteer (Dec 2, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> What got me in BP was the snares, particularly the video that showed the Majestic 14" with the quad snare levers??? what a beauty😍
> When I saw they sampled it in all four ways? I was sold, that shows super attention to detail and care. actually that sold me on the whole Berlin lib.... but that snare... the drummer in me couldn't resist!


Totally hijackinbg this thread but wondering what set you have and your thoughts it? I can see it's Roland. I've been an acoustic drummer for 20 years and just now with kids thinking of switching to an electronic set. Eyeing the Rolands and Pearl set and willing to pay for the right set if need be. It just seems like such a bump in price from the beginner sets to the professional ones and wondered your thoughts. Thanks for any advice or links to reviews that may help and take care!


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 2, 2020)

stabsteer said:


> Totally hijackinbg this thread but wondering what set you have and your thoughts it? I can see it's Roland. I've been an acoustic drummer for 20 years and just now with kids thinking of switching to an electronic set. Eyeing the Rolands and Pearl set and willing to pay for the right set if need be. It just seems like such a bump in price from the beginner sets to the professional ones and wondered your thoughts. Thanks for any advice or links to reviews that may help and take care!



My set started life as a regular Roland TD-15 (hihat, 1 ride, 1 crash, 10" snare, 3x8" toms, and obviously 1 kick drum).... then it started growing
I've built my self two 12" pads from an acoustic 12" pearl tom I've sawed in half, built the sensors with piezo transducers I ripped out of alarm buzzers  and the foam cones are original Roland parts.
I use them as snare and floor tom. you can actually see thru in the picture the aluminum bars that hold the sensors.

I wanted more cymbals, so I grabbed every Roland and Yamaha cymbal that popped for sale in my area.
My TD-15 module didn't have enough inputs to support them all, so I bought another module (TD-12 in the picture) which gave me now enough inputs to add many cymbals and even another bass drum (when I played drums, if you wanted double bass? you used two bass drums lol).

Actually? my whole set is second hand (and few DIY) that was bought in bits and pieces... I can't even put a price on it. ah yes, even the frame that holds all of this is built from frames of two drum sets.

The sounds in the TD-12 and TD-15 modules are ok'ish? but they are not even in the ball park of VSTs like Superior Drummer or even EZDrummer (or BFD and XLN). I use a laptop with SD3.

Modern high end modules like TD-50 and Pearl Mimic, yea they are not cheap, and they are operating in different ways. Roland are still like old school modules, triggering samples from ROM. you can import single shot wavs and layer them with the ROM sound, but bottom line its still a ROM player.
The Pearl Mimic is like a VST host, though what it has inside is the Steven Slate SSD5 sounds. you can't load say SD3 or BFD. I have no idea what is the state of development of the Mimic, there were promises to add more Slate add-on drum sets. I'm not supper crazy about SSD5 sounds, but for a complete hardware box? it's amazing and totally usable for both live and even studio work.
The TD-50 also sounds great, but the variety of sounds is limited. what it does have that's amazing is a digital snare and digital ride.
I can't explain in words what that means... check youtube... you will understand


Its a vast subject, I could write pages and still cover just a fraction.
If your totally new to this? the technical side is like learning a whole new instrument.
Apart from your drum sticks, chair and kick pedals... everything else is new... even the "skins"
I advice to read as much as you can at www.vdrums.com (site/forum dedicated to all vdrums), and check electronic drums youtube channels to learn more. search for:
65 drums
drumtecTV
mike luke
vdrum tips


Even if you have the money, don't just jump head in to buy something, do your research first.
Enjoy the "ride"


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 2, 2020)

p.s. don't be scared from all of this, cause if this is the only way that you can drum at home, its worth it!
I live in an apartment, with neighbors, I could come back to drumming only because of this technology so for me its a god send.


Oh, and after all that, my main instrument is still guitars


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 2, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Isn't there a VST>AAX rapper?


Yes, I have it. The problem is I forget Sine because it doesn't show up in my instruments list. Kontakt is there, however. Nice and easy to use. 

And I do have Cubase and Studio One. I don't need another computer (though I have one)


----------



## artomatic (Dec 2, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, I have it. The problem is I forget Sine because it doesn't show up in my instruments list. Kontakt is there, however. Nice and easy to use.
> 
> And I do have Cubase and Studio One. I don't need another computer (though I have one)




My DAW is also Pro Tools. I have been using SINE via VE Pro while waiting for the AAX compatibility.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 2, 2020)

artomatic said:


> My DAW is also Pro Tools. I have been using SINE via VE Pro while waiting for the AAX compatibility.


Now that I have the full Berlin, I may have start using VEPro with a second computer.


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 3, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, I have it. The problem is I forget Sine because it doesn't show up in my instruments list. Kontakt is there, however. Nice and easy to use.
> 
> And I do have Cubase and Studio One. I don't need another computer (though I have one)



What do you mean you forget sine?
What wrapper/converter are you using? (mac/pc?)
A google search shows that kontakt supports AAX.

Edit:
You could use Reaper to run SINE and ReWire Reaper<>PT on the same machine.
I once experimented ReWiring two instances of Reaper (to have two ASIO cards) and it (the Rewire) worked flawlessly.

My experiment with two ASIO cards worked so so, but that's because of Reaper and not ReWire.


----------



## novaburst (Dec 3, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> it's a bit hard to use the library comprehensively, as it in turn needs lots of supplementation, either from one of its other string libraries or often from other libraries altogether. So in terms of workflow, I'm still trying to determine how to best make that transition from early work to final mock-up.
> 
> In limited work with layering, I've found it plays nicely with with my various Spitfire strings, so that bodes well for finding a solution to the workflow challenges.



I think this is exactly what I would be doing if I had the library, becuase I think it has a great tone, and legato, playability, but the huge content it has will probably just be sitting there, while it feels it would be great for exploring i feel there is only a small part of the library I would use.


----------



## Kevinside (Dec 3, 2020)

Bluecat´s Patchwork is also an option to use Sine in Protools Ultimate...
As HDX user, i am a heavy PT Ultimate User....Other Daws are Nuendo,Logic and sometimes Live (for electronic Music...)...
Sine works great for me and i hope, there will be an aax version in the future...


----------



## novaburst (Dec 3, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Who knows how Afflatus will pan out in the long term for use



I think they should split the package up and create a package based on the traditional orchestral so we can use that weather we want to do western, or lush modern we just use that library and tweak it how we want it to sound, then do another package and sell as an expansion, so each package has a clear motive of usage,

Its kind of like what O Ts are doing and VSL are doing like selling an FX package or a bounce of new legato bow stroke articulations,

Also i think Developers should look how orchestral tools are doing things like allowing you to have tasters or even having the choice of purchasing one single instrument, and then discounting the library according to what you have purchased making the whole library much more cheaper if and when you decide to get the whole version, to me this is the sign of music lovers allowing a much wider ordinance to use their content.

I think this is a very modern approach of selling because in the end every one wins. and you still have cash in your pocket.

There are times when you can indeed purchase the whole package but how many would agree with me that when a very good library is launched the money sometimes is just not there, but you have some small cash to purchase one or two instruments and that is really cool to do that esp when the library or developer are top end.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> What do you mean you forget sine?
> What wrapper/converter are you using? (mac/pc?)
> A google search shows that kontakt supports AAX.
> 
> ...


I have Patchwork that I bought specifically to run VST's in ProTools. 

I have a lot of instruments. When I'm writing and click to add an instrument, a lot shows up - this is what happens when you buy the NI, Air and Sonivox bundles. I usually select Kontakt. I also forget about Play and later wonder why I never use my EW libraries. Spitfire shows up as BBCSO. My tired brain comprehends that. I should mention I work all day on a computer. So when I do music at night, my brain is a little burned out. And to think about using something that isn't on the list? It doesn't happen. 

When I pull out Cubase, I do see Sine. But other than Tableau, all my Sine libraries are also in Kontakt.


----------



## jsnleo (Dec 3, 2020)

https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/keynote

Now I’m worried.


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 3, 2020)

jsnleo said:


> https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/keynote
> 
> Now I’m worried.


I think whoever said that the sale on Berlin series was a hint that something new was around the corner was correct. And the fact that they just released a library recorded in L.A. means they were just getting their feet wet.


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 3, 2020)

Manaberry said:


> Well well well... Here we go again!


Reading that announcement immediately reminded me of the GIF @Manaberry posted lol


----------



## Kevinside (Dec 3, 2020)

I am excited...


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 3, 2020)

I’m excited too. But after Modus, that Berlin sale, and other Black Friday purchases I’ll have to scrape up loose change to get anything else from OT this year.

Edit: Forgot to add Special Bows 1 & 2


----------



## Casiquire (Dec 3, 2020)

That really does hint at a SINE port or something related to the orchestral line. Whatever it is, it doesn't bother me. I'm excited to hear about it


----------



## easyrider (Dec 3, 2020)

Glad I waited and didn't jump on the 50 % off sale....I had a feeling new gen Lib was coming


----------



## lgmcben (Dec 3, 2020)

Please god no


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 3, 2020)

galactic orange said:


> I’m excited too. But after Modus, that Berlin sale, and other Black Friday purchases I’ll have to scrape up loose change to get anything else from OT this year.


I'm guessing its an announcement for something they're releasing next year.
Also, even if its a new orchestral sample library, I'm assuming its going to be recorded at United Recording Studio. (or maybe Eastwood Scoring Stage? )
Berlin series is still going to be one of a kind.


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 3, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> Please god no


You probably need to go find a plumber ASAP before OT releases their new thing.
Your wallet is having a pretty bad leak...


----------



## easyrider (Dec 3, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I don’t think they were less than 230 each ....the cynical side of me thinks OT are getting rid of NI serials of a legacy product...it’s clear they want people to jump on the Sine train due to the bundle pricing


----------



## lgmcben (Dec 3, 2020)

*"I am proud to share a massive announcement with you. Something we started many years ago is entering a new chapter... "*

This seriously hints at the Berlin Series.


----------



## Marsen (Dec 3, 2020)

jsnleo said:


> https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/keynote
> 
> Now I’m worried.


Me too!


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2020)

It could be Berlin porting to Sine..... That would be a new chapter.


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 3, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> It could be Berlin porting to Sine..... That would be a new chapter.


Its hard to imagine that they're holding a premiere event just for a SINE port though.
Because they didn't have one for the Met Ark series or the Berlin Inspire series.

Edit: Or maybe its a Berlin String Revive, Brass Revive? (Revive being exclusive to SINE, probably)


----------



## Marsen (Dec 3, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Glad I waited and didn't jump on the 50 % off sale....I had a feeling new gen Lib was coming



For all Berlin Main lib Owners, purchased within last month, this new library will be for free...


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 3, 2020)

Yeah, this.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2020)

Raphioli said:


> Its hard to imagine that they're holding a premiere event just for a SINE port though.
> Because they didn't have one for the Met Ark series or the Berlin Inspire series.


No, no, no....It has to be the Sine port. I don't have money for anything else!


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 3, 2020)

Marsen said:


> For all Berlin Main lib Owners, purchased within last month, this new library will be for free...


And this!


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 3, 2020)

I’m really hoping they get everything ported to SINE before dropping a full new series of something. But that’s a lot of work, will take a lot if time, and I’m not sure if the current SINE version can handle Berlin without considerable updates (TM patches, for example).


----------



## easyrider (Dec 3, 2020)

Marsen said:


> For all Berlin Main lib Owners, purchased within last month, this new library will be for free...



I reckon it could come in cheaper as a bundle intro deal.. to really try an establish SINE...Yeah you wont get the Kontakt version....but hey ho...Batches of Kontakts serials cost a fortune and SINE negates this cost.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2020)

galactic orange said:


> I’m really hoping they get everything ported to SINE before dropping a full new series of something. But that’s a lot of work, will take a lot if time, and I’m not sure if the current SINE version can handle Berlin without considerable updates (TM patches, for example).


Well, making Sine able to do TM patches would definitely be worth announcing. They can then port the Time libraries as well.


----------



## John Longley (Dec 3, 2020)

I sense Modern Scoring Strings is now being released on Dec 16th lol


----------



## Scalms (Dec 3, 2020)

Marsen said:


> For all Berlin Main lib Owners, purchased within last month, this new library will be for free...


Or 33%off, so instead of $1500 per library, it will only be $1000!


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 3, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> *"I am proud to share a massive announcement with you. Something we started many years ago is entering a new chapter... "*
> 
> This seriously hints at the Berlin Series.



One thing that crossed my mind is, 
"Something we started many years ago" can be interpreted in many ways.

For example, "founded and started the company Orchestral Tools", or "started orchestral sampling" etc.
It may or may not refer to the "Berlin series".


----------



## Marsen (Dec 3, 2020)

galactic orange said:


> I’m really hoping they get everything ported to SINE before dropping a full new series of something. But that’s a lot of work, will take a lot if time, and I’m not sure if the current SINE version can handle Berlin without considerable updates (TM patches, for example).


Yeah, that's why I'm so happy, having the kontakt versions at my disposal.


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 3, 2020)

One of the things I thought that L.A. Sessions was lacking was a small horn section. Maybe that wouldn't fit with their image of the L.A. sound, but to me that pop production sound really benefits from some trumpets and a trombone at least, maybe a sax or two (ducks under table). Don't get me wrong. I think Sessions sounds great, especially that C7 and electric piano. I was hoping to hear more from the strings in the walkthrough but they weren't covered enough so I passed.

My point, as others have made, is that Sessions was a first run and maybe we'll get some full sections of things added. Producing a new library in L.A. might be tough at this time so I hope it actually is something they've been working on for a long time.


----------



## Kevinside (Dec 3, 2020)

This is the question; Is it only a Sine Port of Berlin Series or more like HOOpus...
New recordings at Teldex...

I am really excited, cause i love the berlin series and if its a new chapter, it will be gorgeous...

And they said it is a new chapter from something started years ago... It must be Berlin Series...


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 3, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Glad I waited and didn't jump on the 50 % off sale....I had a feeling new gen Lib was coming



Ah, so you managed to withstand the BF onslaught. Well done, old chap. You made it out alive.....

I figure that I need more knowledge and less choice. Working within constraints makes you more innovative. 

I also had an inkling that the Berlin Series might well be due a facelift, or might possibly even be replaced. But what does that matter anyway ? You either love the sound of it and think it's worth the money, or you don't.

I'm interested to see what they announce. 

(I doubt very much they are going to do something that will annoy all the people who spent a lot of money with them last week.....)


----------



## Manaberry (Dec 3, 2020)

Raphioli said:


> Reading that announcement immediately reminded me of the GIF @Manaberry posted lol



Wait WHAT? Oh god no...




(Sorry guys, I had to)


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 3, 2020)

Kevinside said:


> This is the question; Is it only a Sine Port of Berlin Series or more like HOOpus...
> New recordings at Teldex...
> 
> I am really excitet, cause i love the berlin series and if its a new chapter, it will be gorgeous...
> ...


Yes, this would be the best case scenario. And you're right, it will be gorgeous. It might be the only thing that makes me rethink looking at the Abbey Road libraries.


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 3, 2020)

galactic orange said:


> Sessions was a first run and maybe we'll get some full sections of things added. Producing a new library in L.A. might be tough at this time so I hope it actually is something they've been working on for a long time.



Since the premiere logos design looks somewhat similar to the LA Sessions logo, that makes more sense.

They probably would announce multiple things during their event.
So SINE port and maybe an announcement of new releases, maybe a new orchestral library series.

I personally would like to see an announcement of an expansion for JXL.
I want trills and crescendos at different lengths (at least 3 different lengths with a TM feature).
I also would like a cluster builder for JXL Brass. They did one in their French Horn SFX expansion.
I want something like that a for JXL Brass.

Edit: ^ Thats a lot of "I"s... selfish of me...


----------



## Casiquire (Dec 3, 2020)

Actually what I'm really hoping for is a Revive-like upgrade plus SINE port. That's really all these libraries need; a bit of balancing and polish and the two that I have are very nearly perfect. The recordings are pristine and full of life


----------



## coprhead6 (Dec 3, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> Actually what I'm really hoping for is a Revive-like upgrade plus SINE port. That's really all these libraries need; a bit of balancing and polish and the two that I have are very nearly perfect. The recordings are pristine and full of life



Hell yes!
Maybe we'd get our F/FF layers for Berlin Brass.


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 3, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> Hell yes!
> Maybe we'd get our F/FF layers for Berlin Brass.


Don't get my hopes up so high!


----------



## zimm83 (Dec 3, 2020)

I think it will be Sine 2.0 with TM and auto arranger as they said somewhere...
Mega Sine update.
Like Hoopus.


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 3, 2020)

Or a "Berlin Choir", finally


----------



## Marsen (Dec 3, 2020)

I don't like to speculate much on this.
I made an investment on which I think will be a main part in my template at least for the next five years. 
Berlin has such a profound sound and playability. 
You can't always look at the next library around the corner.
This will never end.
I have to recover from BF, make some music and justify my upcoming purchases with the quality of my results achieved. 

Hopes, that make sense, *hope my broken english makes sense


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 3, 2020)

Open Letter To Orchestral Tools:










I'm broke.


----------



## Casiquire (Dec 3, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> Hell yes!
> Maybe we'd get our F/FF layers for Berlin Brass.


Use the marcato!


----------



## coprhead6 (Dec 3, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> Use the marcato!



Haha, I tried it and it does sound good!


----------



## Marsen (Dec 3, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> Use the marcato!


Listen to this guy!


----------



## Lassi Tani (Dec 3, 2020)

Berlin Choir!


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 3, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I should mention I work all day on a computer. So when I do music at night, my brain is a little burned out. *And to think about using something that isn't on the list? It doesn't happen.*



Sing it sister 
That's why now since I got Berlin I plan to build a template, so I'll have everything visible.


Though I must confess that I'm good at planning and... well... suck at everything that follows that


----------



## jsnleo (Dec 3, 2020)

Hate to say it but my guess is it has to be something new and big, porting Berlin series to SINE doesn’t feel important enough to make an announcement. And it’s definitely a orchestral library. I feel I’m being robbed, just bought all four and now this?

Well if this is true I think OT learned something from Spitfire, something bad.


----------



## Frederick (Dec 3, 2020)

I don't care about what they'll be releasing. I wanted the strings and the woodwinds and now I've got them. As far as I'm concerned they can do whatever they want. For me that doesn't change the value of what I just bought.


----------



## Marsen (Dec 3, 2020)

jsnleo said:


> Hate to say it but my guess is it has to be something new and big, porting Berlin series to SINE doesn’t feel important enough to make an announcement. And it’s definitely a orchestral library. I feel I’m being robbed, just bought all four and now this?
> 
> Well if this is true I think OT learned something from Spitfire, something bad.



No, I don't believe this at all.

I agree, this will be more than porting something to Sine, but:

You aren't robbed, as you now own a flagship library which doesn't go bad like a chicken in hot sunlight.
You bought some fantastic libraries with big discount ( but @Hendrik-Schwarzer , the E2 at celli dynamics arc 1 is bumped *cough).

Whatever may come on December, you still will own this fantastic Orchestra.


----------



## Marsen (Dec 3, 2020)

Frederick was faster and more on the point. * Less words, same content.


----------



## youngpokie (Dec 3, 2020)

jsnleo said:


> I feel I’m being robbed, just bought all four and now this?
> 
> Well if this is true I think OT learned something from Spitfire, something bad.



You mean that the moment the shiny new thing is released is when the stunning library you just bought will no longer be one of the best made ones ever made??


----------



## easyrider (Dec 3, 2020)

Frederick said:


> I don't care about what they'll be releasing. I wanted the strings and the woodwinds and now I've got them. As far as I'm concerned they can do whatever they want. For me that doesn't change the value of what I just bought.



Purchase justification complex


----------



## coprhead6 (Dec 3, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> Has anyone considered that they may be doing this before announcing a next-generation series in a couple weeks similar to Spitfire’s upcoming massive modular Abbey Road libraries?
> 
> Maybe even Junkie XL Strings or something?




- Me, November 23rd


----------



## djrustycans (Dec 3, 2020)

I ignored all the furore surrounding the sale - as a Metropolis Ark 1,2,3 & Inspire 1 owner, I’d wanted in on the Berlin Series for years but was too skint to purchase at full price. 

It felt good to concentrate on the libraries I have and squeeze more life out of the disaster that is Spitfire Studio Strings & Brass.

At the eleventh hour I watched a couple of walkthroughs including Jononotbono’s epic marathon.

When I watched the OT brass one done in Cubase with the key edit examples, I nearly fell off my chair!

I now have BS, BWW and BB!!! Taken half the day and I’m only 50% there with the Brass download - life’s too short! I have a decent internet connection but it’s hovering somewhere between 16-23 mbps. Any tips for speeding this up??

I am SO excited it’s ridiculous and quite embarrassing..


----------



## easyrider (Dec 3, 2020)

Spitfire Studio Strings is class...but noobs beware


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 3, 2020)

djrustycans said:


> I have a decent internet connection but it’s hovering somewhere between 16-23 mbps. Any tips for speeding this up??



Tell the family that Netflix is broken....


----------



## djrustycans (Dec 3, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Spitfire Studio Strings is class...but noobs beware


The strings can be very good but the shorts are poor for me - not enough choice and not very articulate either. I made some really playable patches for fast passages using Marcato and sustain which I mix with Portamento and/or trills for runs. The brass is hard work.


----------



## youngpokie (Dec 3, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Spitfire Studio Strings is class...but noobs beware



They are much much nicer than Woodwinds or Brass, and the divisi option is very helpful with the articulations well matched to it.

Unfortunately, even with Studio Strings there is simply too much of that delightful Spitfire "humanization". What should have been used very sparingly is quite common (out of tune, out of time) and in the case of Brass and Woodwinds there is some really bad playing too.

The thing about Spitfire is they have brilliant concepts but they lack some of that German engineering to fully bring them to life...


----------



## shponglefan (Dec 3, 2020)

djrustycans said:


> I have a decent internet connection but it’s hovering somewhere between 16-23 mbps. Any tips for speeding this up??



Mine's been averaging about 20-22 Mbps. I've been downloading BB since yesterday evening. :/


----------



## djrustycans (Dec 3, 2020)

shponglefan said:


> Mine's been averaging about 20-22 Mbps. I've been downloading BB since yesterday evening. :/


You’re kidding!! Looks like I’ll be well into next week at this rate..


----------



## Kevinside (Dec 3, 2020)

hmm where are the servers located... I ve downloaded the whole package in 1 1/2 day...


----------



## PaulieDC (Dec 3, 2020)

djrustycans said:


> I ignored all the furore surrounding the sale - as a Metropolis Ark 1,2,3 & Inspire 1 owner, I’d wanted in on the Berlin Series for years but was too skint to purchase at full price.
> 
> It felt good to concentrate on the libraries I have and squeeze more life out of the disaster that is Spitfire Studio Strings & Brass.
> 
> ...


Congrats! Man, the brass is so thick you could bite into it. Love it.

As far as speeding up your internet, pay your ISP more money. 
Seriously, see what new plans are available because most are offering more speed and data now that folks are home more. I went from the Cox 350mbps plan to their Gigabit and it actually lowered my bill from the outdated plan I was on. Abbey Road One downloaded so fast (getting 910 down now) I thought something was wrong, lol.


----------



## djrustycans (Dec 3, 2020)

Kevinside said:


> hmm where are the servers located... I ve downloaded the whole package in 1 1/2 day...


 Not sure - I’ve left it and gone to bed! Will check tomorrow.


----------



## djrustycans (Dec 3, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> Congrats! Man, the brass is so thick you could bite into it. Love it.
> 
> As far as speeding up your internet, pay your ISP more money.
> Seriously, see what new plans are available because most are offering more speed and data now that folks are home more. I went from the Cox 350mbps plan to their Gigabit and it actually lowered my bill from the outdated plan I was on. Abbey Road One downloaded so fast (getting 910 down now) I thought something was wrong, lol.


Thanks! I’m on almost the top speed I can have from current provider in UK. I reckon I should plug in the Ethernet for this even if it means we’re all tripping over the cable down the stairs


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## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2020)

Very Excited !


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## Marsen (Dec 3, 2020)

If you're done, play the Zampano Trumpet, have a Tequila, and the world is in balance.


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## andyhy (Dec 3, 2020)

With Berlin Brass I did encounter one problem after installing. For some reason when I tried to load Trumpet 1 Legato Kontakt assumed it was located in a non-existent drive L. So I selected ignore for the missing parts, clicked on browse for folder and selected the parent folder for Berlin Brass. That located the missing file and I then chose the save option when I finished so that the next time I loaded that articulation the problem had disappeared. OT Helpdesk later confirmed that's the right thing to do if that happens.


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## oooooooooooooooooh (Dec 3, 2020)

Ugghhhhh I JUST got Berlin Strings and Woodwinds. I know they're still extremely high quality products and won't necessarily be superseded, but I still think it's a little crummy to clean house and THEN announce a new series right afterwards.

...unless they do offer discounts to owners of Berlin, then I'll have no complaints, haha. This would be doubly so since I'm sure it'll be some time before they're released and I DID need the products now.


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## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2020)

oooooooooooooooooh said:


> Ugghhhhh I JUST got Berlin Strings and Woodwinds. I know they're still extremely high quality products and won't necessarily be superseded, but I still think it's a little crummy to clean house and THEN announce a new series right afterwards.
> 
> ...unless they do offer discounts to owners of Berlin, then I'll have no complaints, haha. This will be especially since I'm sure it'll be some time before they're released and I DID need the products now.



I'm hoping/predicting they will be announcing the Berlin Series for SINE. Not new libraries, but existing Kontakt Berlin libraries that have been polished, improved, and tweaked to be super efficient, and sounding awesome running in SINE. Berlin Library owners will switch to the SINE version for free.


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## oooooooooooooooooh (Dec 3, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> I'm hoping/predicting they will be announcing the Berlin Series for SINE. Not new libraries, but existing Kontakt Berlin libraries that have been polished, improved, and tweaked to be super efficient, and sounding awesome running in SINE. Berlin Library owners will switch to the SINE version for free.



I recall them mentioning that they're porting all the Berlin stuff to SINE, so that at the very least I would be happy to see. If that's all it is then I'll definitely be very happy. I also have their Phoenix Orchestra and I actually love the SINE player, they did a beautiful job.


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## emilio_n (Dec 3, 2020)

At least I have a reason to feel better after letting go the Berlin offer...
Excited about what is coming on 17!

Even if is Berlin series ported to SINE with an attractive price. I don't care to get only the SINE version. Now I think I like much more SINE than Kontak for a lot of resons.


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## andyhy (Dec 3, 2020)

The Berlin series is now back up to its pre-BF price. The OT announcement on 17 December could be about many things. I'm sure OT values customer loyalty especially as they have big plans for the future. We are after all their greatest asset. Let's wait and see.


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## emilio_n (Dec 3, 2020)

I am sure they will port Berlin series to SINE and keeping the support in any case.


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## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2020)

andyhy said:


> The Berlin series is now back up to its pre-BF price. The OT announcement on 17 December could be about many things including even a move from the present Teldex Scoring Stage. When it comes down to it I'll be buying future libraries from other developers if the current Berlin Series is abandoned by OT. I'm sure OT recognises the risk of alienating their existing customer base by breaking their free SINE-porting promise. Retaining existing customers is essential if they have big plans for the future. We are after all their greatest asset. Let's wait and see.



What makes you think OT is abandoning their Berlin Series Libraries ?

The Berlin Series is a serious foundation for OT as a company. I'm also very confident they will be porting their Berlin Series, and other libraries to SINE. Plus, I'm also sure SINE will get even more features, and be a super sample library player, and tweaker to customize the sounds very flexibly, which is a very attractive, and super useful feature to have in a player. On top of that SINE based libraries are much more RAM efficient than their Kontakt version, which is another huge benefit, plus their Adaptive Legato technology will make sure Legato transition volumes are silky smooth, and very musical.

I'm really excited about the future of the Berlin Series, and anything new they are going to announce. Looking forward to Dec. 17th.


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## oooooooooooooooooh (Dec 3, 2020)

Raphioli said:


> Edit: Or maybe its a Berlin String Revive, Brass Revive? (Revive being exclusive to SINE, probably)



Oh that's a good theory! If that's the case, I'm very happy I bought into Strings now, since I know the upgrade to BWW Revive wasn't too pricey.


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## galactic orange (Dec 3, 2020)

oooooooooooooooooh said:


> Oh that's a good theory! If that's the case, I'm very happy I bought into Strings now, since I know the upgrade to BWW Revive wasn't too pricey.


My guess is they’ll combine the expansions into a larger, comprehensive section “package” for SINE (and for less money).

Edit: I mean, since it will all be a la carte anyway, it makes sense right?


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## coprhead6 (Dec 3, 2020)

andyhy said:


> With Berlin Brass I did encounter one problem after installing. For some reason when I tried to load Trumpet 1 Legato Kontakt assumed it was located in a non-existent drive L. So I selected ignore for the missing parts, clicked on browse for folder and selected the parent folder for Berlin Brass. That located the missing file and I then chose the save option when I finished so that the next time I loaded that articulation the problem had disappeared. OT Helpdesk later confirmed that's the right thing to do if that happens.



The exact same thing happened to me


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## Raphioli (Dec 3, 2020)

galactic orange said:


> My guess is they’ll combine the expansions into a larger, comprehensive section “package” for SINE (and for less money).
> 
> Edit: I mean, since it will all be a la carte anyway, it makes sense right?



That actually makes sense a lot. Because they were saying that they probably won't have a sale again like that. If there were no "main" series to begin with, it would be impossible to do a sale for it.

man... I wonder if this is going to be one of those threads which they boost to 100+ pages just by making guesses.
We still have around 2 week to go.

OT definitely has learned some stuff from Spitfire lol
Especially on how to tease and build hype.


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## jbuhler (Dec 3, 2020)

Raphioli said:


> OT definitely has learned some stuff from Spitfire lol
> Especially on how to tease and build hype.


It’ll be a real game changer.


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## Raphioli (Dec 3, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> It’ll be a real game changer.


Yup, "Its all about to change" xD


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## jsnleo (Dec 3, 2020)

@Marsen @youngpokie Nah what I’m worried about is that they’ll be busy releasing new libs and abandoning the old ones. I sent them an email during the sale asking when Berlin would approximately be ported to SINE and they said they had no idea. I don’t own Spitfire SSS but I’ve been seeing people complain about them not delivering the promised update.


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## oooooooooooooooooh (Dec 3, 2020)

galactic orange said:


> My guess is they’ll combine the expansions into a larger, comprehensive section “package” for SINE (and for less money).
> 
> Edit: I mean, since it will all be a la carte anyway, it makes sense right?



And as someone who didn't pick up the expansions because they weren't on sale, if they're cutting a deal for people getting it in the SINE player then I'll be right on board.


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## lettucehat (Dec 3, 2020)

One thing that doesn't fit in is the Specials Bows going on sale a little while back (a month?). Other than that, no Berlin expansions went on sale. At first my theory was that those expansions are ready for SINE because they are smaller, and the Berlin sale was to get people hooked on the Berlin platform. Now I don't know. If things are really a la carte then you'd think maybe they pushed the main libraries as one last full-package push, and in reality all Berlin products are ready for SINE. Big question is how will a la carte even work?? Buy full strings but only basic articulations a la carte? Or specific instruments (cellos, clarinet, trombones) and get literally all articulations they've ever done? I'm curious to see how they tackle that.


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## jbuhler (Dec 3, 2020)

lettucehat said:


> One thing that doesn't fit in is the Specials Bows going on sale a little while back (a month?). Other than that, no Berlin expansions went on sale. At first my theory was that those expansions are ready for SINE because they are smaller, and the Berlin sale was to get people hooked on the Berlin platform. Now I don't know. If things are really a la carte then you'd think maybe they pushed the main libraries as one last full-package push, and in reality all Berlin products are ready for SINE. Big question is how will a la carte even work?? Buy full strings but only basic articulations a la carte? Or specific instruments (cellos, clarinet, trombones) and get literally all articulations they've ever done? I'm curious to see how they tackle that.


The special bows were on sale because they were made into Kontakt Player libraries, right, and they got all the work needed to make the nks compatible. It seems strange for OT to do that, pre-buy all those Kontakt licenses, just to port the library to Sine a month or so later. At the time I took that to be a sign they weren’t planning the port Berlin libraries to Sine anytime soon. But then again they were also selling the Kontakt version of the Arks during that sale for not much discount, so who knows.


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## lettucehat (Dec 3, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> At the time I took that to be a sign they weren’t planning the port Berlin libraries to Sine anytime soon.



Same! But maybe it was worth it to get people into the ecosystem. Or maybe they're planning something totally different, who knows.


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## lgmcben (Dec 3, 2020)

1. If it's the old Berlin Series directly ported to SINE = free for previous owners

2. If it's Berlin Series 2.0 = $199 crossgrade fees per section

I guess it's #2


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## jbuhler (Dec 3, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> 1. If it's the old Berlin Series directly ported to SINE = free for previous owners
> 
> 2. If it's Berlin Series 2.0 = $199 crossgrade fees per section
> 
> I guess it's #2


They’d be risking a lot of bad will if they went that route and didn’t offer a free path to Sine for current owners. It wouldn’t have to offer more than the current libraries, so there could be a Berlin 2 in addition. But I think they are going to have to offer Berlin 1 on Sine as well.


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## lgmcben (Dec 3, 2020)

As someone mentioned, this looks a bit too similar (the only new color is green).

Maybe it's a new orchestral library recorded at United Recording Studios.


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## Raphioli (Dec 3, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> As someone mentioned, this looks a bit too similar. Maybe it's a new orchestral library recorded at United Recording Studios.
> 
> View attachment 40454



The event logo does look like an "R" though, which might mean Revive.

But I'm trying to see how I can make it look like a "S".
Then I could probably make it a "subscription service incoming" joke...


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## Toecutter (Dec 3, 2020)

lgmcben said:


> As someone mentioned, this looks a bit too similar (the only new color is green).
> 
> Maybe it's a new orchestral library recorded at United Recording Studios.



🙏
Orchestral Tools uploaded a video tour today


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## lgmcben (Dec 4, 2020)

Toecutter said:


> 🙏
> Orchestral Tools uploaded a video tour today




Well the announcement seems like something new that won't replace (or even try to do the same thing as) Berlin Series


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## borisb2 (Dec 4, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Very Excited !


Looking at these visuals and comparing that with LA studio sessions design I would assume this announcement has absolut 0 to do with Berlin series or Sine.
It uses the same concept of shapes, gradients and pastel colors so I would strongly suspect a close connection to to these United studios, meaning something new from there is coming


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## Marsen (Dec 4, 2020)

OStO?


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## Hendrixon (Dec 4, 2020)

OT released a new banner!!!
This is despicable, how dare they use pastels?!?!
I will never buy anything from OT again!






Honestly some of you are a bunch of baby whiners...


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## Kevinside (Dec 4, 2020)

Dont forget, that Orchestral tools said, they are bringing something, that started years ago, to an new chapter?
I think, that says all... Maybe its like HOOpus... Bringing the berlin series to sine with a new set of recordings at teldex....


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## Raphioli (Dec 4, 2020)

I noticed that there's a slightly different image on the event page.


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## lucor (Dec 4, 2020)

Surprised no one mentioned Metropolis Ark 5 yet (unless I missed it). It's also something they started many years ago, which could now get a fifth chapter. Plus they traditionally all released in December....

Though I'd personally also prefer a SINE port for Berlin, I can't wait to leave the dreaded CAPSULE engine behind...


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## A.N.D.I (Dec 4, 2020)

The legatos in Berlin Brass have slured and re-tongued legato. Hod can I keyswitch between these two options? Or is there a CC?


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## Robin (Dec 4, 2020)

A.N.D.I said:


> The legatos in Berlin Brass have slured and re-tongued legato. Hod can I keyswitch between these two options? Or is there a CC?


CC 52 by default. You can assign your own by Alt-Leftclick on it


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## muziksculp (Dec 4, 2020)

Quote from OT announcement :

_"Join us at the *Orchestral Tools 2020 Premiere Event*, on Thursday, December 17, 2020, on our YouTube channel.

I am proud to share a massive announcement with you. Something we started many years ago is entering a new chapter..."_

So.. Something they started years ago must be Berlin Series, and the BIG news is most likely it is now SINED UP 

I'm Super Excited !!! This is the best news of the year for me.


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 4, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Quote from OT announcement :
> 
> _"Join us at the *Orchestral Tools 2020 Premiere Event*, on Thursday, December 17, 2020, on our YouTube channel.
> 
> ...


I would be reeeaaallllllyyyy happy for that


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## borisb2 (Dec 4, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Quote from OT announcement :
> 
> _"Join us at the *Orchestral Tools 2020 Premiere Event*, on Thursday, December 17, 2020, on our YouTube channel.
> 
> ...


And then using the same visual language as with LA studio sessions? Hmmm.. not convinced

Maybe I’m wrong - would like to see the Berlin series on Sine - but I would clearly fire the graphics- desginer 😋


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## Kevperry777 (Dec 4, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> It could be Berlin porting to Sine..... That would be a new chapter.



But that’s not really a big announcement....they already said on Facebook earlier this week that Berlin was going to SINE. 

But what if it’s a new version...maybe an LA based modular orchestra??


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## A.N.D.I (Dec 4, 2020)

Robin said:


> CC 52 by default. You can assign your own by Alt-Leftclick on it


Thanks


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## borisb2 (Dec 4, 2020)

Again, from a graphical standpoint it must be something else in my opinion. OT has a very strong visual language: Berlin series uses vivid, single colors (representing the foundation for orchestra? - almost like prime colors), Inspire uses paintings, the Arks use a completely different languaga that connects to the movie metropolis (obviously), LA studio sessions now uses pastels, gradients and simple shapes. This is all very very well designed. And now using a similar design for the announcement and connect to Berlin series? Doubt it. Its bigger..

What about „something we started many years ago“ represents just their business, and „entering a new chapter“ means something like we are moving to LA and sampling from now on in the United Recording Studios, leaving Teldex behind? At least that would fit to the visual language


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## Chungus (Dec 4, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> leaving Teldex behind? At least that would fit to the visual language


This seems highly unlikely to me. A continuation of the JXL series has been all but confirmed, and it would be weird for the rest in the series to not be in Teldex.

Frankly, I'd go even further with questioning whether this will be so typical orchestral thing to begin with. With Berlin already a thing, and JXL coming, it seems redundant. ...But then again, that's not stopping Spitfire. So, who knows.


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## muziksculp (Dec 4, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> And then using the same visual language as with LA studio sessions? Hmmm.. not convinced
> 
> Maybe I’m wrong - would like to see the Berlin series on Sine - but I would clearly fire the graphics- desginer 😋



I didn't bother checking the LA Studio Sessions Graphics, but SINE OT had a big event during Jan. 2019, when they announced SINE, and JXL Brass, plus the fact that all of their Kontakt libraries will be ported to SINE, it is almost a year since that announcement in L.A. at the Paramount Studios event. (which I attended). 

OT most likely had a team working on the porting of their libraries to SINE during these months, we are going to begin seeing bare the fruits of their efforts soon. They already released their LA Sessions Library, so that's no more the big news.


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## muziksculp (Dec 4, 2020)

For a bit of Nostalgia. Here are some pics I took during the Jan. 2019 event at Paramount Studio Hollywood.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 4, 2020)

If all they were going to announce was SINE porting + Berlin enhancements, why not do that _before_ Black Friday? Might've convinced folks that were on the fence.


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## muziksculp (Dec 4, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> If all they were going to announce was SINE porting + Berlin enhancements, why not do that _before_ Black Friday? Might've convinced folks that were on the fence.



SINE porting of their Kontakt libraries was announced Jan. 2019.


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## stabsteer (Dec 4, 2020)

Beans said:


> Woah, that's a nice haul. Just remember that you're going to find things you don't like about each, even the best of them. EWC is practically perfect, for example, but even it has volume balancing issues between a few patches.
> 
> Most importantly, *all the things you didn't buy also have their own quirks.*
> 
> So, don't feel jealous about Berlin Strings when you find inconsistency with CineStrings or excessive "AIR" with SSO that you can't remove, because if you had Berlin Strings you'd be fighting some tuning issues or who knows what else.


What library is EWC I forget? Thanks


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## easyrider (Dec 4, 2020)

stabsteer said:


> What library is EWC I forget? Thanks











Spitfire Audio — Eric Whitacre Choir


Eric Whitacre Choir is a choir that captures the breathtaking range of our most personal musical instrument, crafted to add depth, beauty, grit, and emotion.




www.spitfireaudio.com


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## andyhy (Dec 4, 2020)

Kevperry777 said:


> But that’s not really a big announcement....they already said on Facebook earlier this week that Berlin was going to SINE.
> 
> But what if it’s a new version...maybe an LA based modular orchestra??


It might mirror Spitfire's AR1 deal.


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## Hendrixon (Dec 6, 2020)

Just wanted to say I don't think I will move to sine... I took a 4 day vacation in order to let my pc download Berlin! 
I'm on a 15Mbit connection at home and so far downloaded the woods

Will be back home on Tuesday, hopefully with Berlin ready for playing


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## Eptesicus (Dec 6, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> If all they were going to announce was SINE porting + Berlin enhancements, why not do that _before_ Black Friday? Might've convinced folks that were on the fence.



It wont be this. Everyone already knows that the Berlin series is coming to SINE. Can't see why there would be some massive keynote event about it.

I imagine it will be an all new library or an all new piece of software (hints of a new sequencer earlier in the thread....however judging by the stability of SINE i would probably stay well away from a whole OT sequencer/music production program!).


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## Hendrixon (Dec 6, 2020)

Sine is not stable?


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## emilio_n (Dec 6, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Sine is not stable?


Last version is rock solid to me


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## Ihnoc (Dec 6, 2020)

youngpokie said:


> So, while salivating over Berlin Series for the little time left, I came across this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just to extend to this:

I highly recommend *backing up your downloads and especially patches before doing this*
*Note that Orchestral Tools comment in that thread to be cautious with doing this*
The process is destructive
Use a multi patch only if you need it (such as velocity/cc switching or crossfading) for optimum results
Consider saving versions of your favourite patches separately (such as Multi with Close/Tree, or Multi - No Legato Transitions)
Personally I have moved away from removing microphone positions and instead removing legato transitions where I don't need them. Same process, you just target different groups (note using the Legato Purge feature does not actually remove the zones). This seemed better in the long run as I found with my recent Orchestral Tools purchases and recording matching I wanted some different microphone positions.

This is massively time consuming to set up but worth it in my opinion.


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## youngpokie (Dec 6, 2020)

Ihnoc said:


> ..... This is massively time consuming to set up but worth it in my opinion.



Thank you @Ihnoc. It would be great if you actually did a write up on how your complete process of optimizing Berlin Series. I'm sure many folks who just bought would benefit from that. Cheers!


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## Ihnoc (Dec 6, 2020)

youngpokie said:


> Thank you @Ihnoc. It would be great if you actually did a write up on how your complete process of optimizing Berlin Series. I'm sure many folks who just bought would benefit from that. Cheers!



Thinking about it but I've yet to set everything up yet! I only had Woodwinds Legacy, Woodwinds additional instruments, and the Brass, Brass additional instruments and mutes previously. Now that I have the full main collection I've started to rethink how I want the instruments laid out.

For example, barring some instruments (Woodwinds additionals, a flute and a clarinet), every instrument has Soft and Immediate attacks. Some also have Accented attacks. Same goes for Tremolos. But they're all in separate patches. The velocity switching in the Legato instruments are all on different values (20 and 110 for strings, 64 and 120 for brass, 30 and 115 for woodwinds).

One of the things that frustrates me is there is no 'Sustains' patch, that reacts to velocity for attack and CC for vibrato (like the Legato patches do!), but you can create that with the multi patches, just takes time.

Or those endless trill and measured trill options, except only Flute 2 and Oboe 1 get -7 semi-tone trills? Gotta pick what you actually need, or transposition trick what other bits have.

Then there's the actual process of _doing_ these things - clicking tiny dark grey numbers set against a black background. And you want to switch everything to be CC for dynamics? Look forward to clicking a switch hidden in a sub-menu of each articulation!

There are a lot of usability problems unrelated to performance in CAPSULE, but that is mainly because so many tweakable options are made available to the user. That's something I value in Orchestral Tools and Vienna's instruments too.

That's primarily why I think Spitfire and Orchestral Tools moved to their own players - not for some licensing issue but to allow themselves to be freed from Kontakt's idiosyncrasies in usability and performance for the end user.


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## [email protected] (Dec 6, 2020)

And that's exactly why I let my licenses sit unotuched in Native Access until Ark 3-4 and the Berlin Series gets ported to SINE.


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## youngpokie (Dec 6, 2020)

Ihnoc said:


> Thinking about it but I've yet to set everything up yet!



I'll keep my fingers crossed then that you would be interested in writing this up!

Meanwhile, I don't know if you usually set up your articulations in one track per instrument fashion or not. But in case you are - how do you load your patches to program articulations? 

For example, I was wondering if a combination makes sense - to use the sustain multi-articulation patch in order to take advantage of the ability to set legato on any long; and then to continue populating that instance with the single articulations for the rest. But it sounds like it's incredibly tedious to set up (and then volume balance too). How do you do it now?

Many thanks!


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