# What is a 'contact' to you?



## alanbuchanan (Jan 16, 2013)

I get the same advice from everyone I speak to: 'All you need to do is get contacts!'

It may seem trivial to some, but I am starting to think a 'contact' means something different to everyone.

So far, the contacts I have are a couple of (very patient) MA student film directors who I met once and simply got along with.

What is a contact to you? Is it someone you've shown your work to and they liked it, and decided to work with you? Is it a good friend who happens to be in the industry? Is it someone you've met through recommendation of someone else?

Please tell me the elusive magic formula behind acquiring contacts that everyone knows except me! o-[][]-o


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## dgburns (Jan 16, 2013)

if I told you,I'd have to shoot you! :mrgreen: 

just kidding!

in my personal experience-

in the business world,contacts are links to people that you have interfaced with and done business with.Time in,and successful work under your belt gives you your "brand".When people need a service,and I feel post audio,and composing for media is a service,they turn to the people who have a track record with them on previous projects.It only makes sense.So your contacts become the people who know you and are willing to consider hiring you for work they need done.

the people that are around you,just starting out as directors etc,are your best prospects.Make them successful,and in turn,they will take you along for the journey.I can't stress that enough.

I apologize if this sounds preachy,it's not meant to.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 16, 2013)

Editors. They are VIPs for us, as they have a very big influence on directors, they place the temp music.


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## christianhowes (Jan 16, 2013)

I think that contacts could be divided into several different types.

The first level is meeting someone, exchanging business cards/information, talking about each of your work ect...

Then, after continued conversation after the first meeting, you (hopefully) work together (or work for the person) on a project.

If you impress them, then you'll continue working with them, and hopefully they'll introduce you to others who need your service (and you do the same for them) and the process continues.

As far as "getting" contacts, There are many ways to go about making that first contact and exchanging information. Conferences and conventions are great places to meet people, and of course the internet is a great networking tool. The biggest part of solidifying the contact is following up with the contact afterwards, and making sure that you keep in conversation with them. I agree with dgburns that trying to work with people who are just starting out is a great strategy, and if you help them be successful they'll continue to use you in their work. 

Hope this helps!


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## midphase (Jan 16, 2013)

Ahhh...contacts! I have a few thoughts on the matter.

Many centuries ago, an evil witch put a curse on composers, she decreed that our career would always be dependent on someone else's career choices, and that we would in no way be able to control or influence that person but would rather always be at the mercy of their whims.

Sadly, the curse stuck and we are forever destined to "connect" with others in the hope that they will take us along for the ride. So we go on about meeting various directors, editors, sound designers, and even actors hoping that they will choose to work with us in the future (assuming of course that they continue working themselves).

Sometimes this works quite well, John Ottman for instance had the distinct luck of teaming up with a fellow student by the name of Bryan Singer, and David Julyan rolled up his sleeves to help out fellow out-of-money director Christopher Nolan on a no-budget film.

For many others, contacts don't end up benefitting them quite so much due to a number of unpredictable factors ranging from the director choosing to work with someone else for whatever reason, to the director choosing that his true calling is to join the Foreign Legion and move to North Africa never to be heard from again.

My advice for "contacts" is pretty simple...don't make contacts, make friends! 

People like to work with other people because the enjoy each other's company. They don't really care that your compositions or mockups are unmatched by anyone else, they just care that you're a fun person to be around and grab a beer or go see a film with. Sure it's nice to hand out your reel to editors, producers, and the likes...but ultimately it doesn't really result in anything if there is not also a friendship born out of it. 

I would advise you to get out of the studio, start hanging out with people with similar interests and make friends. The worst thing that could happen is that your life is filled with friendships! 

If you set out to network your way by exchanging business cards and putting in the required follow-up calls, your contacts will be flimsy and not last. I've seen plenty of guys who go to industry hangs and "work the room" and it seldom results in truly lasting partnerships.

Are there strictly business relationships which work like that? Of course. There are client/service provider relationships which function and continue strictly because you are providing a valuable service to someone in exchange for money. But those relationships are always at risk of falling apart when someone else comes in and underbids you (which will happen), or someone is simply more aggressive than you are at getting that work (and someone always is).


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## rgames (Jan 16, 2013)

Contact: person with whom you exchange money.

Friend: person with whom you exchange cordiality.

Contacts get you paid. Friends stoke your ego. Sometimes a contact can be a friend and sometimes a friend can be a contact. But, in general, they're separate groups of people.

If you want to make a living, find contacts. If you need ego-stoking, find friends.

In a perfect world, your contacts are your friends. Good luck finding that world  (It can happen, but it's rare)

rgames


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## dgburns (Jan 16, 2013)

rgames @ Wed Jan 16 said:


> Contact: person with whom you exchange money.
> 
> Friend: person with whom you exchange cordiality.
> 
> ...



damn,you wrote it better than me.


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## dgburns (Jan 16, 2013)

midphase @ Wed Jan 16 said:


> Ahhh...contacts! I have a few thoughts on the matter.
> 
> Many centuries ago, an evil witch put a curse on composers, she ..



"and then" .....i wondered why it was a "she"

"because of" .....this i can't look at writing music without thinking about whether my arrangement is structured in a " because of",or simply a crappy "and then" kinda way.

maybe too obscure for some?

oh well..I tried :oops:


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## Hannes_F (Jan 16, 2013)

rgames @ Thu Jan 17 said:


> Contact: person with whom you exchange money.
> 
> Friend: person with whom you exchange cordiality.
> 
> ...



Instrumentalizing humans. Bah. We can do better than that.


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## midphase (Jan 16, 2013)

I believe Richard's point of view is valid when it comes to strict business relationships.

Composers (for the most part) want to be involved in artistic relationships, so the rules are different.


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## Markus S (Jan 17, 2013)

midphase @ Wed Jan 16 said:


> Ahhh...contacts! I have a few thoughts on the matter.
> 
> Many centuries ago, an evil witch put a curse on composers, she decreed that our career would always be dependent on someone else's career choices, and that we would in no way be able to control or influence that person but would rather always be at the mercy of their whims.
> 
> ...



I like the tone of your post. It's funny and well written. However, you make it sound like you could choose who you like and who you are friends with. Yeah, I wish I'd adored this decider (producer, director, editor, whoever), but actually I think he's an asshole, but let's be friends? Sure, it's great when you get also along in a human way with you clients, but it's in no way a must, IMO. I even feel some of them are more comfortable with a purely professional relationship. They want a service they pay for, maybe they do not want to have a coffee every afternoon with you.


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## midphase (Jan 17, 2013)

Perhaps I should clarify a few things because I get the sense that much of what I said has been a bit misunderstood (what else is new?).

What is a "contact"? Well, it's someone, anyone, who can give you work or connect you to someone who can give you work. Either way, the end goal is to get work.

When I first entered the composing market, the way you made contacts is by grabbing the phone book and going right down the list of post houses, editors, film directors, producers, anyone and everyone who might be in a position to approve your hiring for a project. That was over 20 years ago (sigh...time flies).

Nowadays we have stuff like LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, and of course a variety of online forums like this one. The problem is also that it's a much more crowded market (one could argue that it was already way too crowded 20 years ago).

So let's say you present yourself to an Editor like Ned suggested. Fine, great...except the odds are overwhelming that he's already got plenty of composer contacts in his rolodex (sorry...I meant iPhone), you're just the latest one to get in line. So what makes you think that all of a sudden said editor will start temping his roughs with your stuff (keep in mind that doing so requires him to spend his valuable time listening and organizing through your tracks in the first place, a tall order)?

Oh, but you say "I'm better, faster, more talented, cheaper, got a better web site, and on and on..." Problem is that it truly doesn't matter. In order for people to change the way they operate, a specific reason is needed (i.e. the previous guy is not good enough for us anymore). Good luck arriving just at the precise right moment in the precise right place to present yourself as the next best solution. Not saying it doesn't happen, it's just insanely rare as many who are in this business will attest to.

So I got back to my original post --> People enjoy working with other people because the like each other. Big emphasis on "like."

Our industry is a bit different than others, people don't hire on resume alone...as a matter of fact they rarely do. You can be an extremely well qualified individual, but if you're not clicking with the director you're not gonna get the gig. This is not just my opinion, I see it all around me with all my colleagues and peers.

You get work because someone likes you, and someone likes you not because you're shoving your reel in their face, but because you are potential friend material.

But make no mistake --> "I even feel some of them are more comfortable with a purely professional relationship. They want a service they pay for, maybe they do not want to have a coffee every afternoon with you." <-- This means that you're as replaceable as a can of soup. 

If you're doing "library" type of music, or answering cattle calls for ad clients, then it's a numbers' game for them. They (the agency, music house, etc) are not any more likely to use you next time than anybody else on their list. You might think that you're benefitting from a "purely professional" relationship but it's a short term benefit. Kudos if it's working for you, but I hope you're not planning on retiring on that.


Lastly, Markus asked if one should "befriend" a director/producer even if they don't like them. NO...absolutely not, you're completely missing the point if you do that and nothing good will come out of it. 

I really mean it when I say find new friends in the industry (without forcing it). People whom you genuinely want to hang out, go to the movies, get coffee (or beer) and talk about stuff other than work-related stuff (like making fun of Prometheus). These are the right "connections" in our industry. These are the guys who will go to bat for you when it really matters. They will put their name of the line to strongly recommend you to their other industry friends. They will lift you up when things are not so great, and give you hope because they truly care about your well being and not just about what you can provide for their next project.

That's what I do, and I'm very very happy living life this way and being this type of person. I have parties at my place and invite all of my "contacts" not because it's a good networking opportunity, but because I genuinely enjoy having my friends around.

I hope this helps someone, but if you disagree then you disagree and that's that.


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## dgburns (Jan 18, 2013)

to Midphase-

I,for one,totally like and agree with your post.

I was just trying to find a way to include your writing comment from the hobbit(obviously badly done on my part)


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 18, 2013)

Good post, Kays.


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## Markus S (Jan 19, 2013)

midphase @ Thu Jan 17 said:


> But make no mistake --> "I even feel some of them are more comfortable with a purely professional relationship. They want a service they pay for, maybe they do not want to have a coffee every afternoon with you." <-- This means that you're as replaceable as a can of soup.
> 
> If you're doing "library" type of music, or answering cattle calls for ad clients, then it's a numbers' game for them. They (the agency, music house, etc) are not any more likely to use you next time than anybody else on their list. You might think that you're benefitting from a "purely professional" relationship but it's a short term benefit. Kudos if it's working for you, but I hope you're not planning on retiring on that.



Would you consider 10 years of work relation, with new projects every year short term? Not saying we don't like each other, but it still is a strictly client/provider relation ship, even if it is a cordial one. 

On the other hand, also 10 years ago I got befriended with an upcoming director. Trouble is, the guy stopped making movies a year later. Should I stop being friend with him, because he doesn't provide work? How many good friend can you have? 

-- please note, these questions are rhetorical, they are here to show a problem and a POV, not to really to get answered --

I guess it is just not all that black & white, right & wrong. Professional contacts -> not working, friends -> great market situation. If it works for you, best of luck then.


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## Kralc (Jan 19, 2013)

midphase @ Fri Jan 18 said:


> These are the guys who will go to bat for you when it really matters. They will put their name of the line to strongly recommend you to their other industry friends. They will lift you up when things are not so great, and give you hope because they truly care about your well being and not just about what you can provide for their next project.


Dude, that's beautiful... :cry: 

But seriously, that sounds like the dream. Enjoyed reading that, thanks!


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## midphase (Jan 19, 2013)

If you're not willing to at least partially live in a dream, you probably shouldn't be working in this "industry"...especially as a composer.


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## germancomponist (Jan 19, 2013)




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## Kralc (Jan 19, 2013)

midphase @ Sun Jan 20 said:


> If you're not willing to at least partially live in a dream, you probably shouldn't be working in this "industry"...especially as a composer.


I don't get it? Wouldn't me commenting "that sounds like the dream" say that I desire to fully live in that dream?
I was just saying that situation of having friends who want to collaborate creatively on something you're mutually passionate about, would be something really exciting/rewarding etc... Thus, "The dream", eg, what I want, ergo, something I'm willing to fully live in. :D


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## Stiltzkin (Jan 19, 2013)

This is a contact to me.


But more seriously, a contact is to me is someone that will think of and mention me to other people in the industry - they are very very important.

Just like getting a dentist or doctors name from a friend, the same result can be taken in the industry - if you have certain level of loyalty to one person, you are more likely to recommend them to others - I think it starts with a lucky connection, is solidified through skill and then continues through loyalty/word of mouth.


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## midphase (Jan 19, 2013)

Kralc @ Sat Jan 19 said:


> I don't get it? Wouldn't me commenting "that sounds like the dream" say that I desire to fully live in that dream?



I know, was just saying that because from time to time people tend to want to rationalize our line of work too much and compare it to other "normal" jobs which I think is really impossible to do.


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## Peter Alexander (Feb 27, 2013)

It's not who you know. It's who knows you. And it takes time to build up a good Rolodex of names.


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## edhamilton (Feb 27, 2013)

I don't find it any different for composing work or playing work, conducting, orchestrating etc .....

People don't know what they like - they like what they know - and they to like work with people they KNOW (personally, or by a long list of credits).

When you view it from the top down it makes sense.
No one has the luxury of taking a chance. It's all high pressure with everyone being super accountable.

A contractor is not likely to hire an unknown player simply because there is no reason for them to take the risk. If there is a problem, the contractor is on the hot seat and might not work again, so they hire tried and true players.
Sensible choice.

The pressure on a director is enormous and can't possibly be underestimated.
Kays point is dead on imho. Only friends will take the risk to open a door for you because it is indeed a risk.

So my definition of "contact' is someone who could invite you to a hang, a session (to watch not play on), to a jam session,. Someone to just help you begin to show your face around.
If you have talent and are a good cat - this leads to friendships, and some small gigs and the start of building a reputation.
Delivering great work for good friends might mean someday one of them is in a position to take a RISK and open the door for you.
And there it is.

When I was a puppy I took every opportunity to talk to NYC players when they gigged in my town - "How do I break in NYC" was my question. The answer was always very similar. I then ran into a player (who later became a top contractor), and his answer was a bit terser but pretty much the same.
I got some gigs with a jazz legend - his answer was about the same.

"pay the toll, cross the bridge and show up in town, Play great everytime you play, shower daily, use deodorant, Be a GOOD CAT, and as you work your way up - be good to those above and below"

Looking back on nearly 30 years of making a living at this - every door that opened for me was because a friend to a RISK and went to bat for me.
That friend was once a stranger who became a contact who I hit it off with, both musically and personally.

Just a thought.


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