# London Calling!!



## SvK (Aug 8, 2011)

London is in flames

riots spreading to other cities....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/0 ... 20806.html


Be safe my British friends!

crazy times.

best,
SvK


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## adg21 (Aug 8, 2011)

It's extraordinary.
1700 police officers on the streets of London tonight. There was 5000 for the royal wedding. And this is what is happening all across London and, now, other areas of the UK.



All these areas are affected
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=2 ... urce=embed
These are not protesters, they are gangs trashing their own community. Ordinary peoples houses are being burned down in areas where friends of mine live. In a recession, those burning shops in poor areas will be empty, and not be rebuilt for a very very long time.

...meanwhile our Prime Minister is on the beach


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## stevenson-again (Aug 9, 2011)

> These are not protesters, they are gangs trashing their own community.



Absolutely. Just yobbo's. But the government needs to shoulder a bit of the blame:

This article a week before is quite prophetic:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/video ... ures-video

I am near an affected area. Southgate was closed off yesterday and the missus was sent home early from work. It's just vandalism pure and simple. It makes no point, has no political value. Just an underclass kicking off for the laugh of it.


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## Stephen Baysted (Aug 9, 2011)

Yep, Rohan spot on.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 9, 2011)

In the US it's pretty much always an incident of police brutality that sets them off (Miami in 1982, Los Angeles 1965 and 1992, etc.) and that's what happened in London this time.

That doesn't mean it's police brutality that people riot about, but you'll notice that the residents of Bishop's Avenue aren't major participants in the looting.


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## handz (Aug 9, 2011)

It is only question of time before all those immigrants and other start doing things like that more often and then it will be real problem. UK and France will not end good...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 9, 2011)

Another thing that happens during tough times is that people look for scapegoats to lash out at: Jews, immigrants....


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## handz (Aug 9, 2011)

Immigrants were and always be a problem, multiculturalism never work and UK and France are proof of it for a long time. USA is absolutely different story, it is young country. Jews? Cmon, Jews are not being liked because they are usualyl succesful people, but if someone want to dictate his rights in foreign country that is always bad.


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## midphase (Aug 9, 2011)

Multiculturalism is here to stay, better get used to it and deal with the reality...it ain't going away!

You push far enough into the future, and countries as we know them today begin to disappear being replaced first by landmass state-nations, and then eventually by a global political economy.

That's the future...so I decree!


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## TheUnfinished (Aug 9, 2011)

Anyone who suffers from social exclusion is likely to kick off one day, whether we like it or not.

Part of this social exclusion includes treating immigrants differently, rather than embracing them. There have been plenty of riots and unrest from people that might be called 'indigenous' down the years.

And at what point does someone stop being an immigrant? My family came to the UK from Belgium in the 11th century? Am I an immigrant? My girlfriend came to the UK from Hong Kong when she was eight months old. Is she an immigrant? Is it her fault?

There are many reasons that these things happen. Sitting behind stupid, lazy, knee-jerk phrases such as "Immigrants done it!" doesn't help. There are plenty of white British kids involved in the looting.


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## handz (Aug 9, 2011)

"Multiculturalism is here to stay, better get used to it and deal with the reality...it ain't going away! "

If Europe get used to it and do nothing, it ends bad, islam and maladjusted immigrants are very very dangerous.

Also depends on what you call here, I believe even in Italy the situation is nowhere close to UK or Feance who were huge colonisators and after end of this era they allowed immigration of almost everybody.


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## TheUnfinished (Aug 9, 2011)

There are a lot of people in the UK that feel the same way you do about Muslim immigrants (and whoever the other very very dangerous ones are) about Eastern European people coming here in large numbers.

I'm sure you wouldn't agree. Which is why making blanket statements about immigrants is idiotic.

There are large African communities all over Italy and they are treated like crap. There are no countries without immigrants, it entirely depends how far you want to go back.

The sooner people stop worrying about people's nationalities and beliefs, and see everyone as their common man, the better.

The problem is we are ALL jerks. We all behave crappily to each other and we reap what we sow.


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## handz (Aug 9, 2011)

"
The problem is we are ALL jerks. We all behave crappily to each other and we reap what we sow."

Of course, we are all selfish jerks - that is true nature of man. 

But anyway - I absolutely agree with "The sooner people stop worrying about people's nationalities and beliefs, and see everyone as their common man, the better. " but again problem is that some groups like muslims tends to dictate others how to live even in foreign country they are immigrants in, each country (european at least) have its traditions and history, and I would like if they wil keep its integrity , If I want to live in some other country I have to accept their rules, not try to change them otherwise do a riot. Chines people, Indian people, Vietnamese - no problem with them ever in coimparison with Arabian immigrants etc Turky is somewhere between, but you know - their mentality is different there always will be problems, always. We have here one ethnic minority for like 70 years now or more and they are still acting problematic, they accuse everybody to be a rasists etc and that they have no rights but it is just that they are not able to adjust themselves to the local culture.


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## midphase (Aug 9, 2011)

TheUnfinished @ Tue Aug 09 said:


> And at what point does someone stop being an immigrant?



The moment your skin is white and you speak with the same accent as everyone who shops at Neiman Marcus.


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## David Story (Aug 9, 2011)

midphase @ Tue Aug 09 said:


> You push far enough into the future, and countries as we know them today begin to disappear being replaced first by landmass state-nations, and then eventually by a global political economy.



+1 That's already here Kays! It's a plutocracy, few expected that.



handz @ Tue Aug 09 said:


> "
> The problem is we are ALL jerks. We all behave crappily to each other and we reap what we sow."
> 
> Of course, we are all selfish jerks - that is true nature of man.



The true nature of man is generous:

http://reason.org/news/show/why-are-people-irrationally-generou (http://reason.org/news/show/why-are-peo ... ly-generou)
http://www.physorg.com/news195407098.html

plus many more studies.

Be more generous and you'll see it more in others.


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## adg21 (Aug 9, 2011)

I don't think this has much to do with immigration. These are just young people trashing their communities for shits and giggles, looting, smashing shit up and burning stuff simply because they can, and because they know they are getting away with it. They are not angry about anything, they are not fighting for a cause and few of them are immigrants. They are mostly young Londerners who were probably born in London. Young people who have fewer opportunities. There are young people who feel disillusioned about a previous generation who had better job prospects, who own homes, and who got free education (baby boomers)....young people that are really angry and upset and disollusioned about that.... But not these young people...

...These young people are mostly either gangmembers, kids that are simply bored and need something to do because it's the summer holidays, or people out for a cheap thrill.

Judging from what I've seen I don't think this has anything to do with immigration or multiculturalism


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## adg21 (Aug 9, 2011)

like these idiots 


these


there are many more


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## handz (Aug 9, 2011)

Well, I did not seen many White people (dont know how to say it other way, so sorry if it sounds too "racist") among them. But yo uare right - this is not about anything, this is not demonstration, this is aggression, they are poor and angry (mainly angry ) and hey are many.


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## adg21 (Aug 9, 2011)

Looking for a rukus, yes
A sense of any anger for anything meaningful or heartfelt I'm not so sure.


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## RiffWraith (Aug 9, 2011)

Was there something in particular that sparked all of this? Or is it just a bunch of people pissed off at the way society is turning out?


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## handz (Aug 9, 2011)

Police shoot some guy, I think one of the gang members, but I would say that 95% of people now involved dont know why it started.... 

BTW - I have seen in tv while ago vid where one guy sitting on ground with blood on his face, and then two other come to him, one helping him to stand and the other one is searching his backpack (which he had still on back) looking for what to steal!!!!! Ubelievale! Armored vehicles with miniguns on those people... they like agresive zombies.

whoops, dont noticed that the vid is here also. :oops: disgusting stuff


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 9, 2011)

Anyone who was in Los Angeles during the '92 riots knows that most of it is opportunism.

But you need the ingredients for it to start. And the austerity in the UK - and Europe, and it's coming to the US - can ONLY end up with riots in the streets.


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## Udo (Aug 9, 2011)

David Story @ Wed Aug 10 said:


> midphase @ Tue Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> > You push far enough into the future, and countries as we know them today begin to disappear being replaced first by landmass state-nations, and then eventually by a global political economy.
> ...


David, you don't seem to know the definition of plutocracy: the rule or power of wealth or of the wealthy. 

The US is indeed a blatant plutocracy, i.e. it's undemocratic. That's a disgrace and nothing to be proud of!


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## germancomponist (Aug 9, 2011)

The only thing that can save the world, is education!


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## Udo (Aug 9, 2011)

germancomponist @ Wed Aug 10 said:


> The only thing that can save the world, is education!



... and make sure it doesn't become indoctrination!


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## handz (Aug 9, 2011)

"The only thing that can save the world, is education!"

well, sot of. 

But worst thing ever invented was and still is religion, not anything else caused so much trouble and nothing will probably change it.


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## José Herring (Aug 9, 2011)

Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Aug 09 said:


> Anyone who was in Los Angeles during the '94 riots knows that most of it is opportunism.
> 
> But you need the ingredients for it to start. And the austerity in the UK - and Europe, and it's coming to the US - can ONLY end up with riots in the streets.



Yeah, people get use to sucking on that government nipple and they get mad when you take it away. Just like a baby. But, unlike babies, hopefully once the nipple is away long enough they'll realize that spending your days watching Jerry Springer and waiting for that welfare check isn't the best use of a life.


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## Dan Mott (Aug 9, 2011)

Guys.

Am I too stupid and ignorant to say that - Why don't they just get the army in? I mean from what I've seen on the news and such, there's few officers and too many idiots. Either they should get ALOT more officers out there, or atleast scare them off by getting the army out there to control it. No?


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## chimuelo (Aug 9, 2011)

Mi Esta Matondo Jose......... :mrgreen: 

I had a massive whiny troll as a nieghbor for years, and I felt sorry for her so I always pulled her weeds, kept her yard looking OK since it was a reflection on my property. Thankfully she lost her home to someone who actually is a great addition to the hood.
But before she left she came out to chew on my sons ass, for him and his friends would do mixed martial arts in the front yard and just be boys, and she kept being a bitch. Then one day my son finally told her...." Hey, aren't you missing an episode of Jerry Springer"....... :lol: 
I lost it and could barely reprimand him....

If folks in London get shot with plastic bullets and gas pellets, I won't loose any sleep. I am on the side of people who have jobs and play by the rules.

In the USA such riots are going to happen, but smart looters won't be coming into neighborhoods like they are doing in England.
Here we have guns, and I'll shoot some fool in the face with my bean bag round, and as he tries to regain his senses, I'll remind him that I shouldn't be allowing him to live as I fear leaving a witness.

All of this violence we are seeing around the globe is the Tea Party's fault. So we can fix this by sending them to the DNC or GOP school of politics where they get wealthy and learn to read scripts.
This idea of keeping your promise to the voters is absurd, who do they think they are these upstarts....


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## stevenson-again (Aug 10, 2011)

> Am I too stupid and ignorant to say that - Why don't they just get the army in?



because it'll make it look like the government/police have lost control. plus the army are not trained for this kind of thing. there are enough police but uk police are stuck between over-reacting as they did during the G20 protests and not reacting robustly enough as was the case at the start of all this. but mostly no one in authority expected this kind of situation to spiral out of control as it has. that was a failure of intelligence and meant the police were reactive for a long time, coupled with a degree of uncertainty as to how strongly they should apply force (rules of engagement) in light of the tomlinson inquiry.

that they didn't see it coming is a failure on the part of politicians. this event is driven largely by an underclass that do not engage in normal society and don't feel they have anything to lose, and they had been warning something like this could happen for some time. but not only are they routinely not listened to, but because of recent austerity measures and the high youth unemployment they have even less of a voice and even more time on their hands. combined with an erosion of discipline particularly at home thanks to political correctness, and the ability to organize over social media and it's a powder keg looking for a spark.

there was an extremely interesting debate on newsnight last night between two young representatives from the community, both of whom knew people who took part in the riots but did not participate themselves. they were both intelligent and remarkably articulate. while they took great pains to condemn the riots, they tried get over an understanding of the social conditions that leads to these sort of events. i was struck by how very hard the 2 older commentators worked to dismiss them and pretty much ignore the thrust of their points. i came away thinking that if this were broadly representative of relationship between youth society and mainstream society no wonder they don't feel listened to. two really articulate young people trying to put their point across falling pretty much on deaf ears - how do the less mentally acute amongst them express themselves?


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## TheUnfinished (Aug 10, 2011)

One of those people was the arch-pillock Kelvin McKenzie. God only knows why they got him on.

As much as it is right to condemn the rioters and looters, failing to properly engage with why it's happening will result in nothing being achieved.

Even if we disagree with the reasons that they give for behaving in this way, if you don't listen and don't engage, you can't encourage them to think differently.

Despite the hard work of so many teahcers in this country, we have a terrible education system that looks to discard the obviously less academically able as soon as it can - completley failing in directing them towards a different education and skillset that can give them hope. 

But on top of this we seem to have a generation of almost absentee parents, failing to set any parameters for good behaviour. And it's nothing to do with single-parents or young parents, it's just bad parents. I see large numbers of middle class parents letting their little kids get away with murder too. The difference there is that society affords them a safety net that those in the ever-increasing underclass do not have.

These unforgivably retarded and opportunistic riots are a symptom, they are not the illness.


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## Scrianinoff (Aug 10, 2011)

TheUnfinished @ Wed 10 Aug said:


> One of those people was the arch-pillock Kelvin McKenzie. God only knows why they got him on.
> 
> As much as it is right to condemn the rioters and looters, failing to properly engage with why it's happening will result in nothing being achieved.
> 
> ...



+10000000000000000


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## stevenson-again (Aug 10, 2011)

> These unforgivably retarded and opportunistic riots are a symptom, they are not the illness.



absolutely.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 12, 2011)

> Yeah, people get use to sucking on that government nipple and they get mad when you take it away. Just like a baby. But, unlike babies, hopefully once the nipple is away long enough they'll realize that spending your days watching Jerry Springer and waiting for that welfare check isn't the best use of a life.



Five willing applicants for every job opening in the US. The four who don't get the gig probably lost their jobs through no fault of their own.


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## chimuelo (Aug 12, 2011)

Very True Nick.
It's worse here In Las Vegas though.

I built 2 different Horse Arenas. one at the Orleans, other at the South Point. Amazingly well designed stalls for holding hundreds of fine stallions that will be perfoming in the rodeo or barrell races.
But at any rate my old foremen retired and is in charge of maintaining the concrete and ventillation ( horse shit stinks ).

They ran an ad for part time jobs where the shit in the stalls would be cleaned 3 times a week, and it paid 10 bucks an hour.
24 positions were needed, and 400 + people showed up and stood in sweltering heat for 5 hours.
They actually had to have waittail cocktresses bring water out to keep people from getting heat stroke...

I really feel sorry for the Brits. I had no idea that the so many young people were so displaced in their society. Haven't been there for years.
It bothers me when I hear the interviews and kids are blathering on about taxes being returned through violent looting, etc.
That's just sad that young people learn to hate. They should making beats or jamming somewhere having fun.


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## P.T. (Aug 12, 2011)

If there is no work, work do Countries keep bringing in more and more immigrants?
What do they expect the outcome to be?

If multi culturalism is here to stay it is only because our globalist overlords have decided to destroy the 1st world Nations.


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## adg21 (Aug 12, 2011)

Our parents and the 50+ generation could basically afford houses for twice their annual salary, got free education, and have safe pensions. Those in power (50+) by and large look out for their own interests, have invested less and less in young people, have invested less in free education and work based skills for young people, have invested less in UK industries than ever before, sold off assets, lost control of immigration, and basically screwed over a generation who have less opportunities, are being asked to work for longer for less, and will never be able to afford a house.

I see this as being a massive generational problem more than anything else.


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## José Herring (Aug 12, 2011)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Aug 11 said:


> > Yeah, people get use to sucking on that government nipple and they get mad when you take it away. Just like a baby. But, unlike babies, hopefully once the nipple is away long enough they'll realize that spending your days watching Jerry Springer and waiting for that welfare check isn't the best use of a life.
> 
> 
> 
> Five willing applicants for every job opening in the US. The four who don't get the gig probably lost their jobs through no fault of their own.



I here what you're saying but, this was a problem long before the "current" financial crisis. Institutional nannying has been around since the '60ies and with it has come increased crime, increased drug abuse and increased out of wedlock babies basically destroying the fabric of whole communities starting with blacks, extending into the Hispanic communities and now whites. 

I feel for the guy who loses his job and needs temporary help. Or the single Mom raising her kids because the man left her. I really do. What has been totally devastating is continued assistance going on for generations now. Personally, I would pay the guy on welfare to go to school, get new skills, learn to type and use a computer, learn to read better. But to pay him to sit around on his ass for years is a disservice not only to the community but to the individual receiving the benefits. This kind of help is just a trap. Paying people to do nothing will demoralizes a person and leads to continual civic unrest.

Investing in people through welfare shouldn't mean giving them money for free. Invest in their betterment, job skills ect..... don't entice them into idleness. If a person has to be taken care of he feels less than a person. If he can take care of himself then he has dignity. Programs that have the best of intention, welfare, food stamps, ect are actually having the opposite effect. It's having the effect of creating generations of disenfranchised, demoralized (not to mention fat) people that feel as if they have nothing to contribute to society, thus they riot, lute and destroy as the only way they feel they can have an effect on the society, because having some effect and getting some notice no matter how destructive is better than having no effect and to be forgotten. It's like a child neglected by his parents will sooner or later start getting in to trouble so that at least somebody will notice him.

People aren't born lazy or stupid or lacking in motivation. It's an unnatural state for people. People have dreams things they want to achieve ect... Through careful conditioning of the state these people are taught that they're worthless then they're given money for doing nothing and that all but confirms it their worthlessness.

I only have my personal experiences as a reference. Back in the '70ies when I was growing up, there was a women, friend of the family, who's man had left her. It was a black family and unfortunately she needed assistance. But, she had dignity and worked hard to get off of it. She could have kept getting assistance indefinitely but she just couldn't stand it. She had no real skills but she learned how to answer a phone as a receptionist. She then got a small job. Then a better one, then a better one until she worked her way up to middle class. Both her kids ended up being doctors and making a pretty good living. 

Another family I know, white, has been on welfare for generations literally. There's only one person in the family who isn't on public assistance. As the kids grew up the women got pregnant and the kids grew up on welfare. When one of the kids, a girl, grew up she became pregnant at the age of 17 because she was "advised" at 18 if she didn't have kids of her own she wouldn't be able to get any more welfare. So now in present time this family has been supported by the state for three generations. Time to ween them off the nipple.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 12, 2011)

We had "welfare reform" in the '90s. There has always been and will always be a percentage of lazy people on the margins; so what.

We are in the middle of a financial crisis that has nothing to do with them. Most people work their asses off when given a chance.



> I see this as being a massive generational problem more than anything else.



I see this as being a massive worldwide financial crisis. There are always problems in the world, but the crisis is purely intellectual: governments are ignoring the lessons of the Great Depression and instead choosing to make things worse.


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## chimuelo (Aug 12, 2011)

Our Father
Who art in prison
Mum knows not his name
Thy Riots come
Read it in the Sun
in Birmingham, as it is in London

Give us this day our welfare bread
& forgive us our looting
as we're happy to loot those who defend stuff against us
Lead us not into employment
but deliver us free housing
For thine is the flatscreen, the Burberry & Barcardi,
Forever and ever... 
A-Hen


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