# FL studio for orchestral programming VS cubase



## Christopher Rocky (Sep 29, 2019)

A bit of backstory,
I've been sequencing midi on FL for over a decade, IMO its always been ahead of the curve for midi sequencing and speed. which is my biggest flaw and strength with FL, in that i am the fastest for midi with it, but i'm stuck using it. recently i've come across a few hindrances with exporting midi to audio directly from a midi pattern i've made with multiple instruments. (I'll explain what this is later...)

I use BRSO articulate with Kontakt, to have multiple instruments in one instance of kontakt. For those who dont know brso articulate, its a FREE macro midi controller plug-in for Fl studio that an absolute legend of a composer has made (https://www.syntheticorchestra.com/articulate/) to easily switch between articulations/keyswitches, without having to even program the keyswitch in the midi block/matrix. its very efficient and extremely customizable midi controller plugin which i cant live without.

A problem i have encountered with it so far is that if i have multiple instruments in a midi pattern (that are all controlled by BRSO) then i go to export audio from FL studio (from all mixer tracks) it doesnt export every instrument from that midi pattern, even if it is sent to its own channel on the mixer from within kontakt. I'm not sure if i have something wrong in the settings or what, but usually it shouldn't be a problem, but for some reason it only does one or two instruments at most from one midi pattern (usually the first instrument in kontakt) its really hard to find online support as not many people use BRSO and FL for orchestral stuff, so theres not as much as there is on cubase, i havent emailed image line about this yet.

I've been meaning to move over to Cubase eventually, as it seems to be the best of both worlds for a recording audio and as a midi sequencer (i'm so sick of pro tools and its limitations) and it seems it is the most popular DAW for orchestral composition and shows up in most kontakt library reviews. one thing i like about cubase is the exporting audio options, so much depth! and for large sessions i can see how this would be a huge bonus if say i wanted to export multiple tracks and select which ones, as opposed to doing them individually or all of them at once in FL (alternatively, i know i could just mute the tracks i didnt want to export in FL and then choose 'export all') 
I saw a tutorial of someone being able to choose to export audio from a bus in cubase, OR even choosing to export the individual tracks that was being sent to that bus. in FL you would have to export the individual tracks AND the bus to get just that rendered bus track, you cant just render the bus track by itself.

the other attraction i have to cubase is the video sync. i know fl can do this, but i only have producer edition, not the full suite so i'd have to purchase the video editing plug in if i wanted to sync video with it. does anyone have experience with the video side on cubase?

One thing that i DONT like about cubase, is that every track has its own midi channel for the patterns, I love being able to have one midi pattern open, and have all the relative instruments in that one midi pattern at my fingertips, i'm able to see the notes ghosted out that i'm not using from other instruments, its REALLY handy and for me and adds to the speed of FL.

Part of the weakness of FL, is that there is too many places to automate things, it too flexible. i know that sounds like a plus, but trust me it can be a real pain in the ass if you accidentally record some automation on an external controller, then you have to try and find where its recorded that midi automation, coz it can turn up in 3 places, and usually if its a problem, its not even shown anywhere on the main FL screen. its hidden down the side panel, under generators, or even within a midi pattern itself, which doesnt show up under generators. so you can easily see how this can be a problem if you have 100's of instruments in a session! and you cant just 'undo' as it was a million changes ago. watching a knob in a kontakt instrument being controlled by two different automations, it looks like its possessed by satan, and not even having a damn clue where to find and delete that automation! stuff of nightmares!

if you've spent the time reading this (thank you!) and your a cubase user. can cubase do what i need that i get in FL? a BRSO equivalent? can you program midi in one block/pattern and have it be sent to different instruments? can you SEE the other notes from that instrument underlay ghosted out? is the audio exporting as good as it sounds to be? is cubase becoming the industry standered that pro tools use to be?

I'm kind of looking for the extra push to get cubase, but so far i havent needed to fully move over to it. any and all thoughts welcome, especially if your an FL user!


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## Montisquirrel (Sep 30, 2019)

I use FL Studio since almost 20 years and I understand most of the points you are talking about. I sometimes think about to try other DAWs, but these thoughts are getting less, since I have forced myself to stick to a certain workflow. For example, for automations in case of orchestra instruments, I only do that in the piano roll ("edit events in Piano Roll") and never with an automation clip. I also stopped to draw automations with the mouse and only use the modwheel. I only use automation-clips+mouse when working with filter-cutoff and stuff like this. 

In my opinion every composer has pros and cons with his or her DAW of choice. You can read people loving cubase while they are still not happy with some details, same for all other DAWs.

FL Studio is a DAW which many composers don't take serious and to be honest, I kind of like that under-dog situation. People forget that you can use all the same plugins like the other DAWs and create the same music. You just need to find your own workflow. I produce orchestral music but also elecronic music and for this combination I love my FL Studio. The update to version 20 was pure gold (e.g.: renaming and colouring tracks/channels/mixer-tracks at the same time with just one click (mousewheel-button)

Sorry for not really answering your questions, I just think that switching to another DAW will give you some new pros but also some new cons. There is a 30 days test version of Cubase, you should try it.

I have used BRSO for some time and for what it does, it is very helpful. But in my opinion it only makes sense when you draw your notes with the mouse. I switched to record everything with a midi keyboard and don't see any advantage now using BRSO (I also use one instance of Kontakt for only one instrument). I also dont remember having your problem when I used it. You should directly write a message to Blake (https://www.syntheticorchestra.com/ask/)
Not sure, but I think BRSO in Cubase is the "expression map" (maybe I am wrong)

About the video-player: I use it all the time and have no problems. Just sometimes pressing play doesnt start the video, so I have to stop and play again. If you dont want to update FL Studio you should have a look at this plugin: https://vidplayvst.com/index.htm , I have not tested it, but you can try the demo.

I didnt really understand you question about export of a bus. Why dont you "mute" the instruments you dont want to export? I work with groupings in the playlist, where you can mute whole groups with just one mouse click (Woodwinds-Group, Strings-Group, etc...)

Regarding automations: Yes, sometimes it is a pain in the ass when something is "moving" and you dont know where it comes from. I recently found a solution: Go to the browser -> current project -> Initialized Controls -> delete the automation you want to get rid of (check this Video at 7:00min)

Good to see other FL Studio users!


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## Jonathan Moray (Sep 30, 2019)

ChristopherRock said:


> A bit of backstory,
> I've been sequencing midi on FL for over a decade, IMO its always been ahead of the curve for midi sequencing and speed. which is my biggest flaw and strength with FL, in that i am the fastest for midi with it, but i'm stuck using it. recently i've come across a few hindrances with exporting midi to audio directly from a midi pattern i've made with multiple instruments. (I'll explain what this is later...)
> 
> I use BRSO articulate with Kontakt, to have multiple instruments in one instance of kontakt. For those who dont know brso articulate, its a FREE macro midi controller plug-in for Fl studio that an absolute legend of a composer has made (https://www.syntheticorchestra.com/articulate/) to easily switch between articulations/keyswitches, without having to even program the keyswitch in the midi block/matrix. its very efficient and extremely customizable midi controller plugin which i cant live without.
> ...



First of: I would say Cubase has been the industry standard for quite some time now. Or at least as much of a standard as there is. People will still use what feels the most comfortable to them. But that's just based on my own empirical evidence, I don't have any worldwide data on that.

Second of all: Not sure what you mean by blocks and one midi channel for patterns. You can use one MIDI channel to sent to multiple instruments if that's what you mean. So if you want one midi channel to both play the flutes and violins 1 you can easily do that. You can also open multiple "blocks" at once and see all the midi data in one windows and switch between them by clicking on the corresponding line. Like this:

Blue = Violins I
Red = Cellos
View attachment bJMKhLGxyu.mp4


I've used Fl quiet a bit, although mostly for more electronic music, and moving to Cubase was a big decision, and a good one at that. It took me a while to get used to the workflow compared to FL, but I picked it up rather quickly. I never used BRSO (Didn't exist when I used FL) but the equivalent to BRSO would be expression maps in Cubase I suppose. I don't think you will be disappointing if you make the switch to Cubase. You just need to set aside some time to learn it.

The export is very powerful. You can export Groups (Bus), Individual tracks, FX sends, master, whatever you like. You can even export cycle markers. So if you like to make multiple cues in one project, like I do sometimes, you can just use cycle markers to separate the cues and then export them individually. And Cubase will export them with the same individual tracks for each cue so it's easy to mix and master them in a new project. Really great stuff.


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## Christopher Rocky (Sep 30, 2019)

Jonathan Moray said:


> First of: I would say Cubase has been the industry standard for quite some time now. Or at least as much of a standard as there is. People will still use what feels the most comfortable to them. But that's just based on my own empirical evidence, I don't have any worldwide data on that.
> 
> Second of all: Not sure what you mean by blocks and one midi channel for patterns. You can use one MIDI channel to sent to multiple instruments if that's what you mean. So if you want one midi channel to both play the flutes and violins 1 you can easily do that. You can also open multiple "blocks" at once and see all the midi data in one windows and switch between them by clicking on the corresponding line. Like this:
> 
> ...




Yes! your example is exactly what i meant! having multiple instruments in one piano roll, its like that in FL in that you have a pattern block you create (just like cubase i think) then you can move it around copy/paste ect... 

well that has pretty much sold it for me now, The only thing I would need to know is if the expression map is like BRSO like you are suggesting, in that you can just program midi notes without having to hit/program the keyswitch, I'll investigate that further. 
How do you program between key switches? do you have to actually write in the keyswitch? in FL and BRSO, its as easy as changing the colour of the note your programming and that corresponds to what ever key switch you set it as. its certainly the best thing for me and would be the hardest change if something like that isnt in cubase. 

The export part of cubase is really great, FL really suffers in that regard. it doesnt have any where near those options when it comes to exporting. BUT i have hope that maybe they might patch something like that in, from all the free updates. 

thank you so much for your reply it was really helpful!


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## Christopher Rocky (Sep 30, 2019)

Montisquirrel said:


> I use FL Studio since almost 20 years and I understand most of the points you are talking about. I sometimes think about to try other DAWs, but these thoughts are getting less, since I have forced myself to stick to a certain workflow. For example, for automations in case of orchestra instruments, I only do that in the piano roll ("edit events in Piano Roll") and never with an automation clip. I also stopped to draw automations with the mouse and only use the modwheel. I only use automation-clips+mouse when working with filter-cutoff and stuff like this.
> 
> In my opinion every composer has pros and cons with his or her DAW of choice. You can read people loving cubase while they are still not happy with some details, same for all other DAWs.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your reply! and thanks for those links too, I have watched that video before on deleting automation from when i had a problem  
fl 20 is so good, i really hope they add better export options with the next update. what i meant about exporting the audio in FL, its not as simple as just muting the tracks you dont want to export. Say if i wanted to export just a BUS and not the tracks being sent to that BUS. see what i mean? if you mute the tracks being sent to that BUS you want to export, there wont be any sound coming out of that BUS channel, so you have to export both the bus and the tracks being sent to it. unless i'm missing something else?

I actually do exactly what you said with automation, i keep all my instrument automation within the pattern in piano roll. Then with all VST/panning/mixer volume automation i do with an automation clip. but it can get SO messy cant it? accidentally deleting an automation clip from the main screen, but its still working in the background because it still exists as an automation clip in the list on left side menu. its strange that they do that. its so easy to do things accidentally, in a huge session it becomes a big problem, but i have gotten by so far. 

I havent used FL for recording real instruments before, i use pro tools for that, so it would be nice to have cubase for midi and recording too, as i'm more used to the pro tools style for mixing and recording. 

But i'm with you for FL being the underdog, it isnt taken seriously for use other than electronic music. but it is very fast for midi work flow, which is why i've stuck with it for so long. i love it! and all the plugins are so fantastic. but the export part of cubase really takes the cake. I remember years ago when cubase was considered a joke too haha


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## Jonathan Moray (Oct 1, 2019)

ChristopherRock said:


> Yes! your example is exactly what i meant! having multiple instruments in one piano roll, its like that in FL in that you have a pattern block you create (just like cubase i think) then you can move it around copy/paste ect...
> 
> well that has pretty much sold it for me now, The only thing I would need to know is if the expression map is like BRSO like you are suggesting, in that you can just program midi notes without having to hit/program the keyswitch, I'll investigate that further.
> How do you program between key switches? do you have to actually write in the keyswitch? in FL and BRSO, its as easy as changing the colour of the note your programming and that corresponds to what ever key switch you set it as. its certainly the best thing for me and would be the hardest change if something like that isnt in cubase.
> ...



Yes, then we are on the same page. I've seen some people use BRSO so I kind of know how it works. And yes, you can make expression maps work pretty much the same way by using attributes. This means that you assign an attribute to each note. If you move the note the attribute moves with the note because they are linked. Like this:

View attachment 2rPaFIXOkA.mp4


The other option is direction winch doesn't care about the notes you've selected but instead creates a line for what articulations is selected and every note played while that line is active plays that articulations. If you move a note the articulations don't move with the notes because they are independent from each other. Like this:

View attachment IBHr6ahIiH.mp4


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## Christopher Rocky (Oct 1, 2019)

@Jonathan Moray After you mentioned the expression map i watched a few tutorials on it, unfortunately it is very different than brso, sure it does the same thing, but brso is so simple and easy. but its a totally different way of programming and i think it is only unique to FL, in that brso is a midi controller VST, and you route any instrument you want to it and then automate brso, which i dont think you can do in other daws. It really does make keyswitching super fluid and easy. much easier than the expression map at least for me. 

so the expression map is an automation port to that bottem part of the screen, so you can easily have access to the key switch, it is a very nice feature and it is totally logical and understand why they went this way. but you still have to program the key switch in, in brso, its just as simple as setting up the keyswitches in brso, then changing a colour when programming midi in the piano roll in FL, it tells you on the top left of the screen what colour and name the articulation youve chosen is, no other programming needed, its just there in front of you on the note itself identified by colour. its seriously great!

It seems this would be the only sacrifice I would have to make if moving from FL to Cubase for orchestral programming. and i think its a sacrifice i'm willing to make at least. thanks so much for the info i really appreciate it mate! I'm sure theres a million other features cubase has that i have no idea about. I will have to try the 30 day trial now!


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## oks2024 (Oct 1, 2019)

I was mainly using FL Studio and recently "switched" to Cubase. I still use FL Studio for some projects, but I now consider Cubase to be my main DAW.

I'm not sure I understand why you find expression map to be totally different than BRSO. I love BRSO, but expression maps can do the same thing, and then a lot more. The articulation window is really good, it's even easier to use and to read than the midi color with BSRO. Once it's setup, all of your articulations will be there, you just draw what you want, and you don't have to do it note by note if you don't want to.
You can map articulations to different midi channels, remap the velocity, transpose, move your keyswitches without changing anything to the Kontakt instrument, etc.

If you have not already seen it, this video show some of the things you can do to expression maps.



I really don't think you are losing anything on that side by switching from FL Studio to Cubase.

In my opinion it's mainly on the workflow side that you are losing some things. To me Cubase tries to be close to an analog way of doing things. When you add an instument you create a new dedicated channel on your mixer, and a dedicated place where you are going to write your music.
FL Studio seems to break some of these conventions, your instrument rack list all the instruments your are going to use, but you can use them in different patterns in no particular order, and you can route everything the way you want to the mixer.

I like this way of doing things, but I find it more useful for rock/metal or electronic music, for orchestral music I never found a good way to use patterns, and my routing was pretty much strightforward.

The piano roll is another point, but this one not as bad as most people say. FL Studio's piano roll is great, but there is one huge (in my opinion) feature missing, you can't edit multiple patterns at the same time. Let say you want to transpose a section of your piece, you will have to do it for each midi parts, one by one. In Cubase you select everything, move everything and it's done. This feature alone makes me forget all the small things missing in Cubase's piano roll.

For information, here are the other points where Cubase was a huge plus for me:

- Disabled tracks: It's huge, you can have everything you own visible, so you don't forget instruments you don't often use, but they are not using any resources. When you need it, you press your "enable/disable' shortcut and you can use it. And if you want you can hide the disabled tracks, so it does not bother you when you are working.

- Video: I found it bad in FL Studio. I still need to learn more about that in Cubase, but so far it's better.

- Recording tools: it's easy to have multiple takes, merge them, and it's way better than having to use Edison.

- Track delay: There is something that is supposed to be the same in FL Studio, but it seems to be always buggy. In Cubase it's really easy to use.


But the best part of FL Studio is that the updates are always free, so even if you switch to Cubase, you can still use the latest FL Studio version at no cost.


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## Christopher Rocky (Oct 1, 2019)

@oks2024 after watching the junkxl tutorial i can see how it is better than brso, because of output mapping, brso doesnt do that at all. brso is a virtual midi controller, not an entire integrated system like expression map is within cubase. brso its seperate to FL so you have to route the kontakt instrument to brso, then from there you assign articulations, but expression map is a totally different beast, and i didnt realize how much more it could do, the original tutorials i watched didnt even talk about output mapping like in that video you shared, only articulation key switches. that is so awesome that you can make any output map send to different instruments loaded. the volume control for each articulation is a nice touch too.

I didnt know you couldnt transpose multiple midi patterns at once in FL, sounds like something they should do given the amount of midi tools it has. strange. i do like how FL is so flexible and that is what i'm used to. like you said, the midi patterns, the instruments, and the mixer are all seperate from each other and you just assign things as you please.

thanks so much for the info! this has been immensely helpful as you use both DAWS


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## Montisquirrel (Oct 2, 2019)

ChristopherRock said:


> @Jonathan Moray After you mentioned the expression map i watched a few tutorials on it, unfortunately it is very different than brso, sure it does the same thing, but brso is so simple and easy. but its a totally different way of programming and i think it is only unique to FL, in that brso is a midi controller VST, and you route any instrument you want to it and then automate brso, which i dont think you can do in other daws. It really does make keyswitching super fluid and easy. much easier than the expression map at least for me.



I stopped using BRSO because I started only to record my midi with midi-controllers. Do you think BRSO still has value for me? Maybe I should give it a new try.

And please share your thoughts about FL and Cubase after you tried the Cubase Demo.


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## Christopher Rocky (Oct 2, 2019)

Montisquirrel said:


> I stopped using BRSO because I started only to record my midi with midi-controllers. Do you think BRSO still has value for me? Maybe I should give it a new try.
> 
> And please share your thoughts about FL and Cubase after you tried the Cubase Demo.



I think it depends on your needs of what your trying to accomplish, for me having full orchestral template i need to be able to switch between articulations easily and BRSO was a godsend, i cant play as well as i program so for me it is ideal, its worth having a look again for sure, not sure when you stopped using it but they did a patch update in august this year. 

some of the things i program no one could play because for each note there might be an articulation change from staccato to marcato then a swell very quickly. it would be impossible to do the key switches live in one take. but not everyone needs to do that. 

i just saw that cubase was onsale 50% off 4 months ago, i wont be buying it until this happens again, maybe on black friday they will do this again hopefully and i'll pick it up then! I'll make another post for sure once i have a look at cubase.


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## YaniDee (Oct 2, 2019)

I use both, I enjoy the speed of getting ideas down in FL, but on numerous occasions, when I 've used several instances of Kontakt ( multi channel and/or separate instances) my output audio file has sync issues..the timing in parts is off, even though the playback in FL is fine. I can waste half a day trying to fix it, but usually wind up exporting the midi files and opening them in Cubase..where it renders perfectly.


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## Christopher Rocky (Oct 2, 2019)

YaniDee said:


> I use both, I enjoy the speed of getting ideas down in FL, but on numerous occasions, when I 've used several instances of Kontakt ( multi channel and/or separate instances) my output audio file has sync issues..the timing in parts is off, even though the playback in FL is fine. I can waste half a day trying to fix it, but usually wind up exporting the midi files and opening them in Cubase..where it renders perfectly.



I've never had that happen, that sounds like a hardware issue, quite possibly your hard drive playback speed of the samples trying to play too many samples stored in the RAM that are coming from the same drive, so the hard drive is not quick enough to load the playback. i had issues when i had a spitfire library with all the mics on (close, tree, etc...) and the hardrive speed was making it run slowly and out of time, not triggering samples properly, even though it was all loaded into the ram. this was on a 7200RPM drive too, then i got an SSD for those libraries and it fixed the problem. i have at least minimum 10+ instances of kontakt all with 8 instruments loaded and routed to the mixer in FL, and havent had any sync problems. but it might be worth checking if it is the drive, SSDs are so cheap now!


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## YaniDee (Oct 2, 2019)

ChristopherRock said:


> I've never had that happen, that sounds like a hardware issue, quite possibly your hard drive playback speed of the samples trying to play too many samples stored in the RAM that are coming from the same drive, so the hard drive is not quick enough to load the playback.


Thanks for the suggestions. I admit, I don't have the fastest drives, and they could be contributing to the timing issues, but as I mentioned, it doesn't happen when playing the same tracks and rendering a stereo mix on Cubase! If you search FL sync, timing or latency issues, you will see that I'm not the only one with this problem. I'm not putting FL down, I'm probably using FL more than Cubase these days..but for "serious" projects, esp when it comes to recording multi-track audio, Cubase is my go-to DAW.


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## kitekrazy (Oct 4, 2019)

I think it's apples vs. oranges.


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## Thomas Kallweit (Oct 4, 2019)

Old time FL user here (also nearly 2 decades now). Switched to Cubase recently because of the easier Midi handling for Kontakt (no extra midi-out hassle anymore) and Vienna Ensemble. I like it so far, though it needs time to step in.

About expression maps: 
Please for forgive me my stupidity. But when I want to have certain key-switches marked up then I have to make Cubase "learn" which keyswitches I want to have for each library, right?
This means that I have to give the input for each library with all its specifications. 

I don't know how much easier this might be instead of drawing them inside the key editor.
I guess it depends on if you want make a template for your favorite libraries. Til now I'm no template guy so I think will have to find if this is something for me. As I tend to start projects not with certain libraries per se. 

All in all I think Cubase is a lot better for orchestral libraries than FL anyways. The routing is much easier.
Btw. I still love FL Studio.


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## Christopher Rocky (Oct 4, 2019)

Ok guys I thought I'd update, I bought cubase 10 pro (from this forum!!!)
I've been knee deep in tutorials for 2 days. I've banged my head against the wall so many times trying to do a test session, but just last night and today i started making progress in terms of learning the UI and the functions, googling everything i need to learn in the moment. A lot of the time, the tutorials dont work exactly, I'll do something exactly the same way in a tutorial but it doesnt work because deep in the settings somewhere theres some box thats ticked or unticked that i have no idea about.

its been a matter of learning what i do in FL and then translating that to cubase. I'm so happy there is a HEAP of functionality that cubase has that is amazing, the mixer is so great, its so less messy than FL, the grouping and folders makes it so much more clean, And the channel settings window is excellent, being able to see all the sends and inserts in one window. its seriously so great, i'm so glad i've made the leap so far. the midi automation tracks and in the key editor are great too, overall, the mixer, main edit window and midi key editor are very clean. i love it!

Some negatives i've found so far:

The kontakt routing to the mixer is OK, its less of a hassle than FL (which is a bonus!) but its annoying that you have to reset or reload kontakt if you make extra outputs so they appear in the 'activate channel' part of the instrument rack, i've just saved a preset of kontakt to have 8 outputs so they are permanently there, but if i need to activate more outputs and route them to the mixer (so it creates a new channel for that output) the only way to get them to appear is to make a duplicate of the instrument, then it resets and shows the outputs so i can select them for the mixer. is there an easier way to do this? am i missing something? i watched a bunch of tutorials and no one really addresses this problem, they are just happy to have kt. aux 1 to 4, I need 8 at least! and now with kontakt 6 you can do many more.

Also another negative is mapping to a midi controller. only 8 controllers can be mapped from my keyboard...i mean seriously?! I have 8 faders and 8 knobs on my keyboard, its ridiculous to only allow for 8!!! with all the power of cubase, i was pretty surprised by this. Its also much easier to map things to a controller in FL, the 'last tweaked' function in FL is awesome to just map it straight to the controller, but in cubase its a bit more involved.

The absolute biggest flaw/difference i see is with the expression map, Brso is just WAY easier, i mean WAY EASIER. its such a mess around with expression maps, firstly imputing all the information, having to tell the note of the articulation like 3 times in the settings, its kind of silly they make you do this. then also having to draw the articulation in the expression map midi track so it triggers the articulation, it just takes longer and is much more finicky. in brso you just set it and go, no need for anything else, much much quicker and easier, BUT it is a different beast, brso is a midi controller, not an integrative function of the DAW, brso is like loading a midi instrument and routing another instrument through it, i'm sure expression map is more powerful, and i'm hoping they make it more user friendly to map the keys.

Also another negative is not allowing for 32 bit plugins, i know we are moving into the future and all, but i'd like to still be able to use old plugins i have. I've read this on the steinberg website https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/206087984-Using-32-bit-plug-ins-on-64-bit-systems
But i cant seem to figure out where VST bridge is, and i'm guessing it was in older versions of cubase, not cubase 10, why is this not a problem in other 64 bit daws? but cubase is special in this case.

All in all i'm happy with cubase, I just want to re-iterate though, i'm not saying one daw is better or worse, but making the transition from FL to cubase, for workflow and tools used in FL for orchestration, its pretty much the same, and cubase is so much better in a lot of ways, but for me the BRSO and expression map is a big deal as its what every instrument went through for me, so this seems to be the only compromise.


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## saboo (Jun 10, 2020)

ChristopherRock said:


> A bit of backstory,
> I've been sequencing midi on FL for over a decade, IMO its always been ahead of the curve for midi sequencing and speed. which is my biggest flaw and strength with FL, in that i am the fastest for midi with it, but i'm stuck using it. recently i've come across a few hindrances with exporting midi to audio directly from a midi pattern i've made with multiple instruments. (I'll explain what this is later...)
> 
> I use BRSO articulate with Kontakt, to have multiple instruments in one instance of kontakt. For those who dont know brso articulate, its a FREE macro midi controller plug-in for Fl studio that an absolute legend of a composer has made (https://www.syntheticorchestra.com/articulate/) to easily switch between articulations/keyswitches, without having to even program the keyswitch in the midi block/matrix. its very efficient and extremely customizable midi controller plugin which i cant live without.
> ...


I know I'm kinda late, but video sync (ESPECIALLY if you're automating tempo, ugh) is dogshit on FL in my experience. Especially comparing it to something like Logic, ZGameEditor becomes a big joke.


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## Christopher Rocky (Jun 10, 2020)

saboo said:


> I know I'm kinda late, but video sync (ESPECIALLY if you're automating tempo, ugh) is dogshit on FL in my experience. Especially comparing it to something like Logic, ZGameEditor becomes a big joke.


Never too late! 
I've never used the video editor in FL as i only have the producer version, but that is sad to hear there is another problem with fl that cant compete.
cubase video is great...just checking out zgameeditor now, open source AWESOME thanks for that!

Cubase has been great so far 6+ months or so onwards, I plan on making an indepth discussion video about my experience moving from FL to cubase, As suspected, my intuitions are correct about programing comparing them both.

BRSO and midi sequencing is much quicker once you know how to program in FL. but that's not without its many MANY quirks. cubase and expresison maps are extremely touchy and laggy, it takes far too much time and effort imo.

I really hope image-line can streamline FL to cater for people who use other daws like cubase, number one on the list is fix that damn mixer. its a disaster!!


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## saboo (Jun 10, 2020)

ChristopherRock said:


> Never too late!
> I've never used the video editor in FL as i only have the producer version, but that is sad to hear there is another problem with fl that cant compete.
> cubase video is great...just checking out zgameeditor now, open source AWESOME thanks for that!
> 
> ...


Okay so evidently I'm a giant idiot :D
A bunch of new discoveries here, I never even knew fruity video player existed!! What I did before was to use ZGameEditor Visualizer and drop in the audio from the video file in the playlist like a MORON :|
Also I was talking about ZGameEditor Visualizer, I didn't even know that there was another app that preceded it. Suffice it to say that it sounded weird when you said open source!
With all that said, what's wrong with the mixer? I've only ever used FL, so I don't really know how it could be different. My main gripe about FL is how hard it is to automate Kontakt parameters

Edit: Forgot to mention that you can also buy the video player independently instead of having to upgrade your version. At €29 it's a bit silly for just a video player, but if it's all you need it's better than having to drop money on an upgrade. Here's a video going through it, in case you haven't seen it already.


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## Christopher Rocky (Jun 10, 2020)

saboo said:


> Okay so evidently I'm a giant idiot :D
> A bunch of new discoveries here, I never even knew fruity video player existed!! What I did before was to use ZGameEditor Visualizer and drop in the audio from the video file in the playlist like a MORON :|
> Also I was talking about ZGameEditor Visualizer, I didn't even know that there was another app that preceded it. Suffice it to say that it sounded weird when you said open source!
> With all that said, what's wrong with the mixer? I've only ever used FL, so I don't really know how it could be different. My main gripe about FL is how hard it is to automate Kontakt parameters


Oh i see what you mean now! one thing i've found with FL is they wont fix anything or integrate it unless there are enough users who ask for it. for example midi keyboard integration, i have the novation 61SLmkiii which is integrated in cubase, ableton etc... but FL wont do it because no one is kicking and screaming except a few people, even though they have all other novation products integrated, even the model under my keyboard! I'd think that its the same with 3rd party plugins too.

The fruity video editor/sync has been there for a while if you purchase the add on, it was so expensive so i never bothered. but its supposed to be quite good.

The FL mixer is an absolute mess, only 125 channels, absolutely not enough, I've filled it completely a number of times, and its easy to loose sight of where things are when you have 30 kontakt instances loaded, and 8 instruments in each one, multi timberal outputs etc... its just SO messy.

cubase mixer and channel management (folder structure/hide-show etc...) is the best i've ever used. And everything is so customizable, i just love it!

but saying all that, i have a love hate relationship with FL, i STILL use it! if i want to quickly do something, or quickly check out a new plugin or instrument i use FL, but then it can turn into a full session regretfully!

some of the instruments and stock plugins are so good in FL, the awesome automation and ease of use for midi sequencing, but at the same time, you cant merge automation clips, but you can any other clip, just little quirks like this annoy the heck out of me, but then everynow and then i'm suprised by how much customization you can do, like assigning midi automation, you can make one automation clip and assign it to as many instruments you like, thats something not any other DAW does! (that i know of) so in some areas its amazing, but then in others it is SO frustrating, like the mixer!


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## estolad (Jun 12, 2020)

ChristopherRock said:


> Oh i see what you mean now! one thing i've found with FL is they wont fix anything or integrate it unless there are enough users who ask for it. for example midi keyboard integration, i have the novation 61SLmkiii which is integrated in cubase, ableton etc... but FL wont do it because no one is kicking and screaming except a few people, even though they have all other novation products integrated, even the model under my keyboard! I'd think that its the same with 3rd party plugins too.



Before they were relying on manufacturers to provide the scripts etc. Now since FL Studio 20.7 they opened it up and you can make your own scripts for midi controllers. Meaning integration should be no problem anymore once somebody creates a script for your controller or you could make your own.



ChristopherRock said:


> The FL mixer is an absolute mess, only 125 channels, absolutely not enough, I've filled it completely a number of times, and its easy to loose sight of where things are when you have 30 kontakt instances loaded, and 8 instruments in each one, multi timberal outputs etc... its just SO messy.


This is more a legacy code issue. There was a post on the official forum stating quite substantial performance issues when they increased the channels. I think it's quite high on their roadmap to rewrite this part of FL Studio and increase the amount of channels.

Workaround for now is to use the FL Studio vsti in FL Studio.


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## saboo (Jun 13, 2020)

ChristopherRock said:


> The FL mixer is an absolute mess, only 125 channels, absolutely not enough, I've filled it completely a number of times, and its easy to loose sight of where things are when you have 30 kontakt instances loaded, and 8 instruments in each one, multi timberal outputs etc... its just SO messy.


How many TB of RAM do you have? :D
Yeah suffice it to say I've never encountered the problem of exceeding the channel amount lol


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## Christopher Rocky (Jun 14, 2020)

saboo said:


> How many TB of RAM do you have? :D
> Yeah suffice it to say I've never encountered the problem of exceeding the channel amount lol


TB of ram is not too far off hey haha , I only have 48GB (2x16gb and 2x8gb)




estolad said:


> Before they were relying on manufacturers to provide the scripts etc. Now since FL Studio 20.7 they opened it up and you can make your own scripts for midi controllers. Meaning integration should be no problem anymore once somebody creates a script for your controller or you could make your own.


Awesome i hope someone makes a script for it i have no idea how to. 
its annoying that all the cheaper models for novation are in FL, and then you buy supposedly the best novation inegrated keyboard, and its not in FL. if anything novation should be making the script for them then.



estolad said:


> This is more a legacy code issue. There was a post on the official forum stating quite substantial performance issues when they increased the channels. I think it's quite high on their roadmap to rewrite this part of FL Studio and increase the amount of channels.


Another reason i love fl is that there is hope that they will expand and fix issues as they have done in the past. but it has come to the point where people like me cant use FL anymore, its a shame they miss this part of the market. 



estolad said:


> Workaround for now is to use the FL Studio vsti in FL Studio.



What do you mean? us FL studio vsti in FL studio? Do you mean open FL studio as a plugin inside cubase?

Thanks for shedding some light on this I appreciate it!


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## alexMMK (Feb 28, 2021)

Hello! I'm also want to switch from fl to cubase and one thing that bothered me this time is the oppotrunity of writing two or more articulations simultaneously with BRSO Articulate linked to one multi patch loaded in kontakt . As far as i know there is no way to do things like this in cubase. Correct me if I'm wrong please.
For instance i want to write something in fl. I'm loading fl and some multi patch of brass, link it to BRSO. Then i write one long bass note and above this note (at the same in time in one patch) i wrote staccato chords by choosing other color. It's really handy. Is it possible to do same things in cubase?


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## Christopher Rocky (Mar 6, 2021)

alexMMK said:


> Hello! I'm also want to switch from fl to cubase and one thing that bothered me this time is the oppotrunity of writing two or more articulations simultaneously with BRSO Articulate linked to one multi patch loaded in kontakt . As far as i know there is no way to do things like this in cubase. Correct me if I'm wrong please.
> For instance i want to write something in fl. I'm loading fl and some multi patch of brass, link it to BRSO. Then i write one long bass note and above this note (at the same in time in one patch) i wrote staccato chords by choosing other color. It's really handy. Is it possible to do same things in cubase?




Unfortunately this is the worst thing about moving to cubase from fl.
you just have to get used to expression maps, which is EXTREMELY clunky compared to BRSO,
I've found using cubase, that for the sake of time, I still will sometimes do the archaic way of writing in the midi for keyswitches on the piano roll, simply because it is just faster than messing around with expression maps.

If you don't know, expression maps is like BRSO, it is actually very in depth and can do a lot more than BRSO, but like you pointed out, having the colour coded artics in one instance, is absolutely the fastest way to sequence multi articulations.

So as far as i know, you can not do this in cubase, especially two notes at once in the same sequence,
BUT what you could possibly do is have two separate midi patterns, load in each articulation multitimberal into kontakt, then you can edit two midi patterns in the same window in cubase, which come out as different colours on screen. so it kind of works the same, except you've loaded in two articulations.

I've found that cubase has forced me to use single articulation instances rather than loading multi patches, BUT for the sake of RAM this is actually a good thing, because you tend to only load articulations that you use and the other artics are deactivated. 

So its a bit of give and take, I think you are moving to a far superior DAW in cubase from FL, i highly recommend it, but you have to sacrifice the beloved BRSO and the speed and simplicity it brings.


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## shapeshifter00 (Mar 6, 2021)

I used FL Studio since version 3 untill 12. The piano roll is so fast to work with for programming and is excellent for beats and EDM, but for orchestral it is less desirable. I learned Cubase 6 at school and got my own copy after and is on Cubase 10.5 now. I used to make EDM on FL Studio but now I feel Cubase is just as easy to use and I only use Cubase. FL Studios free lifetime update is unrivaled so you can always switch between. I wanted to try Studio One 5 as I hear lots of good things about it and I can pay pr month through Splice to own it eventually as my only issue with Cubase is the expensive upgrades every year if you want the latest version. Maybe Studio One could be worth checking out as it seems a bit like a mix between Cubase and FL studio.

Pros With Cubase
* Easy to make templates and make folder structures and you can easily disable tracks not in use. 
* Mixer is better then in FL
* Note expression (mark the midi notes and double click to draw automation/modulation curve with the mouse and hear the changes you do) 
* Better for scoring to video
* Better for recording audio and midi
* Plugin manager is more organized and easy to use 

Cons with Cubase
* Expensive upgrades 
* USB dongle required (they will change that soon) 
* Media bay to find samples is less intuitive compared to FL Studio. 

I am happy that I switched to Cubase and 
with recent updates it has made it easier to use samples for making EDM in that way that I uninstalled FL Studio as it is no longer in use.


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## Tag (Mar 6, 2021)

First of all: big sorry, if this might not 100% fit; I did not read all comments. I relate purely to the topic title and my thoughts and experience with this. It's just that I read Cubase mainly and did not find Reaper on any page so far.

I worked for around 15 years in FL Studio and produced orchestral music, big band stuff, rock and metal, electro ... well, quite a lot of different genres after all. It all worked somehow and FL has a specific workflow, for sure. It can be a great tool for out-of-the-box producing, while for orchestral productions (also when it comes to film-scoring maybe!) it was always a realy pain to me, to be honest. For a very long time the internal time calculation was just wrong, so that tempo automation usage in film scoring was almost impossible (at least you always had to start the playback before the very first tempo automation). They fixed it (at least I call it a fix) in v20 or so. I think my first version was 6, so it "needed around 8 new versions" to _fix_ it. (-; For people, who think I cannot do math: be mistaken, I can .. I hope. d-: ... _(Imageline continued to count at v20 instead of v13)_.

Anyway: I am still very thankful I got all the versions in the free lifetime upgrade for free and that it did serve me all the years at least somehow! Thanks Imageline for that, for sure! But my experience during the last year: *Reaper* happened to me. I am still alive, luckily. I am talking about the DAW Reaper by Cockos, not the Grim Reaper. Since everybody is talking about Cubase here, I just wanted to throw in this DAW as well, since I personally think that Reaper really deserves at least a mention ... now it become a bit more than just a mention, oopsie!

I always wanted to make some kind of comparison list, but here is a very quick _(maybe not that quick after all)_ and rough list according to my personal experience - very spontaneously written now. Also I try to be as fair as possible - and also please please please keep in mind that this is my *personal *experience and a comparison which is based on *my individual workflow*!! FL might be better for people with another workflow than mine. Always keep that in mind please! <3

_+ = rather good
- = rather not so good_


FL Studio:
+ is out of the box usable, comes with good and many stock plugins
+ is affordable, has lifetime free upgrades and an easy licensing system
+ looks really nice
+ has a unique workflow (can be okish fast, if you know it well)
- has a unique workflow (can be hard to understand in the beginning for newbes)
-/+ has a weird, almost ... well ... toxic official forum community (I find it really sad, it could be so much better and just harms the image, I suppose) - I am in the german FL community still and they are very cool, helpful and friendly, though!! (even while I am, now mainly a Reaper user, hehe)
- does not feel well optimized when it comes to CPU
- MIDI handling, playlist actions etc. just do not feel intuitive (after I experienced what is possible with Reaper)
- really clunky audio recording to my experience. I always used Edison, because I did not wanted to record to WAV in the mixer and also in a location where I wanted it to be saved (and yes: I know about the project folder thing, which was not really helpful to set it everytime for a new project etc.)
- tempo changes are no fun; they are rather "new", if it comes to correct time calculation (thus video synchronism) and tempo changes are not visualised in the playlist at all; also working with audio during tempo automations makes working impossible (to date in v20.8 at least): when you e.g. star playback of audio during tempo automation, it's not in synch anymore



Reaper:
- not really out-of-the-box usable for total music production newbes; mostly needs 3rd party plugins
+ is really reaaaally affordable and has an easy licensing system
+/- can look nice (themable); while by default ... nah not soooo good, hehe :D
+ has a classic and in my eyes easy to understand linear workflow
+ is customizable as hell: either without knowledge to cusomizable the arrangement of the GUI, the shortcuts or whatever or even with deep knowledge of scripting to extend it with scripts (thus makes working with the DAW *faster than light* to me)
- is customizable as hell: not everybody likes to dig into the software to get it to work to fit the personal workflow ... I still love it, since I am kind of a little script kiddy
+ the Reaper community is so helpful and friendly - I really like it!
+ feels like it does CPU magic (when I switched, I thought that I suddenly had a better CPU d-: )
+ MIDI handling, automation etc.: it just does what you expect it to do: you copy automation points from one line, paste it into another, bam, just works. You copy MIDI with endless automation data in the item to another track: it just works (in FL for example I had to copy *every single* automation data as well to another channel)
+ you just record stuff, can set up relatve or absolute paths in the settings, which will be used for every project automatically, you can change the default recording format to whatever you like, you can delete unused recordings with a single shortcut ... audio recording suddenly is so ... much ... more ... fun compared to my previous production experiences I have made in the time before Reaper
+ tempo changes ... well: are just pure fun! You do not only get a great representation of the tempo in the arrangement grid (different lengths for different passages), you can also work with audio "after tempo automation" and it just in sync .. basically also like you can see it


There probably could come more out of my mind when thinking about the differences, hehe. Again: Reaper really fits *my personal* workflow so much more than FL does. This doesn't mean that FL might be a bad DAW ... I am not god or so. FL could be even better suited for people with a different workflow. I still have to say it, even if I did not want this to say all the ~15 years, but: it does seem to me know as well that FL seems to be way more EDM oriented than _"acoustic music"_ oriented. I mean: it's also the origin, if I understood it correctly: FL started as a drum computer or so, right? You can see this workflow throughout the whole pattern system even nowadays. This can be a very good workflow, when it comes to rather electronic-based music, which just needs repititon more than e.g. filmmusic or so. So it is *totally legit*!

Also: this comparison does not mean that the music produced in either of my compared DAWs here is better or worse. In the end, at least to me, it's mainly about *time*. I see that I can do things much faster in Reaper and with almost no headache, compared to all the previous years. Other people might be faster in FL - that's what I also mean with _"individual workflow"_!


So maybe I could contribute some new thoughts here after all. My experience with Reaper just was personally so formative to me over the last year (I switched to Reaper in the beginning of 2020) - and that even while I already tested Reaper multiple times some times ago already! Somehow it just made "click" suddenly, I guess.


Hopefully you will find your DAW ... maybe you even found it already, since the initial post is over a year old. Also: sorry if I might have come up with some kind of discussion or so, which should already be over. But somehow I thought it still might be helpful to other people in a similar situation. Maybe my words here might inspire some to take another look on other DAWs or even love their DAW even more (hopefully!). Not only FL, Cubase or Reaper solely, of course!

Have a nice one!


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## visiblenoise (Mar 6, 2021)

@Tag As someone who has only really used FL out of habit (and tried Reaper for a short while), I really appreciated reading that! Thanks!


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## Christopher Rocky (Mar 6, 2021)

@Tag Yes I ended up buying cubase and instantly felt it was far far superior than FL, BUT like you said yourself, FL does have its perks which are really awesome. 

I actually still use FL if I want to do a very quick demo or idea as it is so fast to load, when you are dealing with a handful of tracks it is very good and quick. the plugins are amazing that come with it. 

I originally used protools but i stopped because i did not enjoy the midi workflow, it is horrible. especially the piano roll inside the track on the main mix window (at least the last version i had). I just don't like it. which is why I moved to FL for midi, but would still record audio inside protools. 

The Edison thing in FL is also very hard to use intuitively, it goes against the way all other DAWs record audio.

I think for people who have only used FL, Reaper would be the best option to start. It is cheap and you can learn how other DAWs work, Reaper is very similar to protools, cubase etc... then decide from there if you want something more specific. 

Personally I find cubase is perfect for someone like me who wants to be creative and have interesting plugins that come with it. you can make any template you want to do things very specific for different types of workflow. Every single command is programable/changable shortcut, AND you can create any macros you wish. These things are HUGE. 

So I agree Reaper would be a good first leap out of FL if that is the only DAW you have experience with. 
I had 20+ years of experience with Protools so I was fine moving to cubase. 

I still want to mention though, that FL served me for over a year of orchestral programming. 
i still find the way midi patterns/piano roll work inside FL to be the fastest, but I have not used Reaper for midi, only protools and cubase, I'll have to have a dive into it to see


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