# The White Noise Blast of Death -- I'm losing my mind



## stingray306

Yesterday I was working away on a project in Logic, and one of the tracks was buzzing a little bit (some sort of glitch). So I ended up deleting that track (as I didn't need it), and unloaded the sample library it was using in VEPro. Shortly after this, I got the "white noise blast of death". For those unaware of the WNBOD, multiple Logic users have reported experiencing an extremely loud blast/explosion sound that shows up on Logic's meter as being between 500-800db (which is impossible, but whatever the actual value is, it is EXTREMELY loud). Some users have reported permanent hearing damage and tinnitus caused by the WNBOD, and neither Apple or the Logic community have found a solution. Unfortunately I was wearing headphones when this happened, so I experienced bad headaches and aching ears last night, and they were ringing for a few hours. Thankfully today my ears and hearing are back to normal. 

Today, things seemed to be working fine in Logic until now -- my Logic tracks suddenly started switching volumes (some would suddenly be louder and some would suddenly be quiet, even though the volume / automation hadn't been changed). I had to go in and bump up volume on the now quiet tracks and turn down the too-loud tracks. Also, some tracks were registering on the Logic meter but were not actually playing any sound. VEPro seemed to be the culprit here -- the tracks were not registering on the sample library meters, but midi information was coming through. Immediately after these things started happening, the overall sound of the track began to buzz, and I started getting flashbacks to last night; the buzzing was the precursor to the white noise blast of death. I was too scared to even try to trouble-shoot, so I closed everything and shut down the computer. I'm not sure if the buzzing was caused by some damage to my headphones from the blast yesterday, or if it's a sign that another blast is coming.

Even though no one has figured out what causes this or why, I'm trying to gather some clues as to what might be the culprit. While a lot of people have had this problem in Logic before, I honestly think VEPro could be the culprit here. (I've experienced loud blasts in Logic in the past, but nothing like this). 

One other thing that has been happening lately is that when I shut my computer off, either the computer or the speakers "pop" or "click", which has never happened until recently. The speakers or computer also makes a little pop/click sounds multiple times throughout the night when I'm not using it. (But keep in mind, the blast occurred through my headphones, so it isn't directly linked to the speakers -- maybe the audio interface?). Could this issue maybe be caused by an electricity problem? Bad cables/cords? I'm really not a tech person, but I am absolutely terrified of the WNBOD happening again. Any ideas or leads would be so greatly appreciated, even if it's a shot in the dark. I'll do anything. 

Note: I did put a limiter into the master track, but people online say this is not likely to help. 
Another Note: I am working on a late 2013 iMac with High Sierra, VEPro is running on an external PC routed into the Mac via ethernet cable.


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## tc9000

Well, he thought smugly to himself, _that _never happened in the days of tape and analogue desks, etc, etc. I mean, you might get _electrocuted_, if you spilled your tea, or you might put your back out trying to move the power supply but _DAMN _that WNBOD sounds freaking horrible


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## tc9000

I hate to say this but when I googled WNBOD most of the reports were from Logic users. I've been using Reaper for years and have never experienced anything like that. I've seen all kinds of bugs but nothing that could hurt me. I think I might migrate my tracks and uninstall it if it did.


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## patrick76

Wow that’s terrible! This thread may have some helpful info. https://vi-control.net/community/th...nexpected-loud-noise-request-for-help.102558/


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## CT

Yeah it's happened to me too, in Logic. No VEPro involved.

A limiter may not help but there is another plugin called Ice9 that's been recommended for this problem, and in my case, it did seem to work and clamped down on stupid noises before they could become an issue for my ears. Unfortunately I think the developer isn't around anymore, so I'm not sure if it's possible to find the plugin still. 

That's not a real fix, anyway. It's a bit of a strike against Logic as a whole for me because however infrequent, it's a major deal. It hasn't happened to me in a long time, but who knows, maybe tonight's the night....


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## ReelToLogic

A plugin that is still available and can prevent you from experiencing this again is Nugen's SIGMOD (https://nugenaudio.com/sigmod/). I experienced the noise burst once and now I put this on the master output of every Logic Project. I think it is normally around $49 and I believe I got it on sale at JRR shop for about $29. It can do a lot more than provide noise burst protection but is a worthwhile investment in your hearing for that feature alone.


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## chillbot

Oof. Can't help but I know your pain... oddly I had a hardware synth/keyboard that did this exact same thing and it was ungodly. Don't want to mention the actual synth as I eventually sold it and did warn the buyer but I hope they still have their ears on their head.


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## maestro2be

It's actually the reason I left Logic many years ago. I worked with Apple for 6 months on it. They literally did everything they could from upgrading my computer for free, to giving me the latest OS's for free. No one could get rid of the issue. The last time I did it, I ended up full out punching myself right in the face and almost blacked myself out from having headphones on and it doing it.

I will never use Logic again as long as I live from that scare. It's never happened to me again (moved to Windows and Studio One).

Hope you figure it out. Please put some type of hardware protection into your system if you don't have it. They literally happen without warning and without knowing cause. Your hearing is way to important and the fear I had every day working in Logic took away some of my creative power.

I wish you the best figuring this out!


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## dgburns

There is a thread I saw in the Apple support forum where someone mentioned it turned out to be a corrupted bus, in his case.

I have never had the blast, but I have had a few instances of Logic freezing on me, and the meters showing what appears to be full scale audio on the master. My outboard meters register the volume as full scale, but I don’t actually hear anything. Usually I force close the song and it comes back with no issues.

Maybe rebuild your template? What audio interface? What processs buffer setting? Are you pushing the mac hard ?


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## Wunderhorn

This noise blast is a known problem with Logic and a serious threat to one's health.
You should use a plugin such as *Ice9* (free) which will eliminate the issue. I will never ever again start any project without that thing in my master channel.
(More on that topic here)


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## stingray306

dgburns said:


> There is a thread I saw in the Apple support forum where someone mentioned it turned out to be a corrupted bus, in his case.
> 
> I have never had the blast, but I have had a few instances of Logic freezing on me, and the meters showing what appears to be full scale audio on the master. My outboard meters register the volume as full scale, but I don’t actually hear anything. Usually I force close the song and it comes back with no issues.
> 
> Maybe rebuild your template? What audio interface? What processs buffer setting? Are you pushing the mac hard ?


I am using the Scarlett 2i2 for interface, buffer size is at 128. I'm not pushing the mac very hard, all of my libraries are in VEPro so the PC side is doing all the heavy lifting.


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## PaulieDC

stingray306 said:


> ...
> 
> Note: I did put a limiter into the master track, but people online say this is not likely to help.
> Another Note: I am working on a late 2013 iMac with High Sierra, VEPro is running on an external PC routed into the Mac via ethernet cable.


Yikes, it's like walking and waiting for a potential land mine. Since I'm not a Logic user I hadn't heard about this before, I hope you completely recover (and the others that I'm finding out about). Not much to add other than I hope SOMEBODY sorts it out.

Whattya think, will you stay with Logic? I can at least vouch for Studio One (5 years) and then Cubase (2 years) with nothing like that happening. But ultimately that needs to be fixed, my goodness.


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## José Herring

When I started using Cubase back in 2005 of something. I got this a few times. It was completely audio driver related. Then Cubase implemented this feature where if your driver crashed it would mute the audio outputs so you wouldn't get this. Then I only insisted on getting good audio interfaces with stable drivers and haven't had that problem since that time. 

Changing your audio interface should solve it-- that Logic hasn't implemented that simple feature borders on cruel and inhumane.


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## David Kudell

Yikes, I never had that happen in Logic Pro, although I’m not using VEPro. I hope you get it figured out. If you ever decide to move to Cubase, I made the switch last year and can answer any questions.


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## Paul Cardon

stingray306 said:


> For those unaware of the WNBOD, multiple Logic users have reported experiencing an extremely loud blast/explosion sound that shows up on Logic's meter as being between 500-800db (which is impossible, but whatever the actual value is, it is EXTREMELY loud).


Just to be a nerd for a moment, this is actually almost exactly how loud a 32-bit floating point audio stream can get (the bit depth most DAWs and plugins operate in). The full dynamic range of 32-bit audio is about 1600dB, and when you split that in half (positive and negative samples), you get about 800dB. The WNBOD is likely a corruption of the PCM stream, garbled binary. I've had similar things happen in Cubase when you replace a wav/aiff file the project is referencing with one in a new bit depth without "reloading" the file. Cubase reads it at the previous now-incorrect bit depth and runs through the bitstream incorrectly, resulting in intense full volume noise at the loudest signal producible by the previously assumed bit depth, reading x-bits of binary for each sample instead of y-bits. So if you replaced a 32-bit audio file with any other bit depth in Cubase without reloading the file, the result would likely be exactly the same as the WNBOD.

So all to say, the WNBOD problem in Logic could be as simple as Logic temporarily losing track of it's "place" in the bitstream? Obviously a catastrophic error though.

I also used to have this happen in Ableton from time to time when using certain plugins. It's absolutely terrifying.


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## Lionel Schmitt

wow... I actually had a bunch of these in Cubase. 8-10 in different forms and volumes. It seemed to mostly be related to sample libraries that produced it (heard that from others too - not any particular ones, several developers), except one time when I previewed audio files in Cubase before importing them. 
Here is an image from one a few weeks ago, I don't remember what caused it but I wasn't doing anything special. Not painful or dangerous, fully catched by limiter and Gclip.






So far it hasn't been a problem and always entirely smoothed out by the limiter and Gclip (basic free clipper plugin, overly loud signal are just turned into distortion).
So I'm rather surprised and shocked that people have had hearing loss etc from it and that a limiter doesn't help... maybe it's something specific about the logic one...
Although if the actual signal before the limiter starts working is can get very loud it's possible ofc.. but in my case the actual track is already somewhat triggering it all the time, so nothing can get much louder than the track itself before the limiter punches it down. No idea how that can possibly fail.

One time I also received a beta library and some notes produced a white noise blast several times. They said it was due to the upload somehow and Kontakt produces white noise if it struggles to read a samples... perhaps related to what Paul wrote above. Not nearly as loud though, maybe 15-20 dB.


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## Tanuj Tiku

stingray306 said:


> Yesterday I was working away on a project in Logic, and one of the tracks was buzzing a little bit (some sort of glitch). So I ended up deleting that track (as I didn't need it), and unloaded the sample library it was using in VEPro. Shortly after this, I got the "white noise blast of death". For those unaware of the WNBOD, multiple Logic users have reported experiencing an extremely loud blast/explosion sound that shows up on Logic's meter as being between 500-800db (which is impossible, but whatever the actual value is, it is EXTREMELY loud). Some users have reported permanent hearing damage and tinnitus caused by the WNBOD, and neither Apple or the Logic community have found a solution. Unfortunately I was wearing headphones when this happened, so I experienced bad headaches and aching ears last night, and they were ringing for a few hours. Thankfully today my ears and hearing are back to normal.
> 
> Today, things seemed to be working fine in Logic until now -- my Logic tracks suddenly started switching volumes (some would suddenly be louder and some would suddenly be quiet, even though the volume / automation hadn't been changed). I had to go in and bump up volume on the now quiet tracks and turn down the too-loud tracks. Also, some tracks were registering on the Logic meter but were not actually playing any sound. VEPro seemed to be the culprit here -- the tracks were not registering on the sample library meters, but midi information was coming through. Immediately after these things started happening, the overall sound of the track began to buzz, and I started getting flashbacks to last night; the buzzing was the precursor to the white noise blast of death. I was too scared to even try to trouble-shoot, so I closed everything and shut down the computer. I'm not sure if the buzzing was caused by some damage to my headphones from the blast yesterday, or if it's a sign that another blast is coming.
> 
> Even though no one has figured out what causes this or why, I'm trying to gather some clues as to what might be the culprit. While a lot of people have had this problem in Logic before, I honestly think VEPro could be the culprit here. (I've experienced loud blasts in Logic in the past, but nothing like this).
> 
> One other thing that has been happening lately is that when I shut my computer off, either the computer or the speakers "pop" or "click", which has never happened until recently. The speakers or computer also makes a little pop/click sounds multiple times throughout the night when I'm not using it. (But keep in mind, the blast occurred through my headphones, so it isn't directly linked to the speakers -- maybe the audio interface?). Could this issue maybe be caused by an electricity problem? Bad cables/cords? I'm really not a tech person, but I am absolutely terrified of the WNBOD happening again. Any ideas or leads would be so greatly appreciated, even if it's a shot in the dark. I'll do anything.
> 
> Note: I did put a limiter into the master track, but people online say this is not likely to help.
> Another Note: I am working on a late 2013 iMac with High Sierra, VEPro is running on an external PC routed into the Mac via ethernet cable.


Rachel, the only sure way to secure your ears is to have a monitor controller for your speakers or a headphone amp with a physical level control. Software can malfunction and loud digital bursts can happen for many reasons - bad hard drive, RAM issues or bugs in software.

Unfortunately, no limiter or software can 100% protect you from this. A hardware controller is the only way. Some of these devices are not very expensive to get but they will go a long way to protect your ears.

A small pop/click during start-up and shut down is normal in many systems. My advice is to disconnect your headphones (before starting and shutting down) and in case of monitors:

1. Always switch on monitors last - after you have made sure there is no accidental loud sounds.

2. Always switch off monitors first so that turning on or off any switches does not initiate a pop/click.

This will protect your ears as well as your equipment.


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## davidson

Sticking a limiter on the master won't help I'm afraid. The noise burst bypasses everything straight to your interface and monitors. It's not just a logic issue either, it's systemwide. Have a search and you'll see people have had the same bursts in itunes, spotify, web browsers etc for years. It's certainly becoming more and more frequent in logic though. I've read it's a digital timing issue with core audio, but no-one can nail it down.

I've had it several times in logic too and it's scary and downright dangerous. I actually started a thread here a couple of months back asking for hardware recommendations to protect myself, but never received any answers. Perhaps someone could recommend something now which can be used with monitors and headphones?


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## whinecellar

Very interesting - and concerning. Although as several posts in this thread allude to, I am slow to believe it’s an issue exclusive to Logic. I’ve been a hard core Logic user for almost 30 years now and I’ve never experienced this. Not to say it can’t happen of course, but there are some good explanations above as to what is likely going on, and that it can happen in all sorts of scenarios.

One thing I *have* seen in all my years is projects getting corrupt, which can cause all sorts of issues. As a result, I’ve learned to be OCD about keeping fresh, clean copies of everything, especially my Logic preferences. The minute something acts strange, I instantly quit, replace my Logic prefs with the clean copies, and reboot. That sorts me out probably 99% of the time...


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## marclawsonmusic

whinecellar said:


> As a result, I’ve learned to be OCD about keeping fresh, clean copies of everything, especially my Logic preferences. The minute something acts strange, I instantly quit, replace my Logic prefs with the clean copies, and reboot. That sorts me out probably 99% of the time...


Hey Jim, I assume this is a .plist file(s) somewhere? Do you mind sharing which one(s)?

I normally just trash the prefs... never though of saving a clean copy - good suggestion!


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## whinecellar

marclawsonmusic said:


> Hey Jim, I assume this is a .plist file(s) somewhere? Do you mind sharing which one(s)?
> 
> I normally just trash the prefs... never though of saving a clean copy - good suggestion!


Hey Marc! Yes, there are 2 files to be aware of. Both are in your user library>preferences folder, which thanks to Apple’s dumb idea, is hidden by default. From Finder, hope the option key > Go Menu > Library, then the Preferences folder in there. The two files are:

com.apple.logic.pro.cs
com.apple.logic10.plist

What I would do is trash your prefs after Logic quits, then reboot. Set everything up the way you want in Logic, then quit, and find the two newly generated prefs files, and make copies of those; I option-drag them to a folder on my desktop called “Pref Backups.” Incidentally, I do this with other apps that have complicated setups I don’t care to repeat all the time, like my UA Apollo stuff, Native Instruments, VE Pro, etc. 

Once you’ve done this, it’s super easy to just option-drag these clean pref files into your Prefs folder when things act up 

Hope that helps!


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## marclawsonmusic

You rock, Jim! Thanks so much!


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## Markrs

Not sure if anyone posted a link to Ice9, but I have posted a link below if anyone needs it.









Cerberus Audio - Ice9 Automute


size 11.6 MB / 13.2 MB Ice9 Automute’s soft-muting function will begin to attenuate the gain before a si




freevstplugins.net


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## Bman70

Tanuj Tiku said:


> Rachel, the only sure way to secure your ears is to have a monitor controller for your speakers or a headphone amp with a physical level control. Software can malfunction and loud digital bursts can happen for many reasons - bad hard drive, RAM issues or bugs in software.


Can you say more about how a headphone amp with level control would protect from this? Wouldn't you still need to set the amp at a reasonable listening volume, and if a blast happened you wouldn't have time to turn it down? Or do headphone amps have some kind of limiting mechanism?

Anyway, these reports have kept me from buying Logic, which otherwise I would be interested in. I'll probably avoid Logic until I hear of a definite fix.


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## Saxer

ReelToLogic said:


> A plugin that is still available and can prevent you from experiencing this again is Nugen's SIGMOD (https://nugenaudio.com/sigmod/). I experienced the noise burst once and now I put this on the master output of every Logic Project. I think it is normally around $49 and I believe I got it on sale at JRR shop for about $29. It can do a lot more than provide noise burst protection but is a worthwhile investment in your hearing for that feature alone.


I got the Sigmod a second ago. How did you set it up? I expected a kind of "Protection" preset but can't find something like this between all the other options.


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## ReelToLogic

Saxer said:


> I got the Sigmod a second ago. How did you set it up? I expected a kind of "Protection" preset but can't find something like this between all the other options.


I set up the plugin a long time ago and now have it saved as a Logic preset so I had to go look and try to remember! I think the following is what I did:

To just use it for protection, insert SigMod on your master output (mine defaulted to the "Master Bus" preset) then click the gear icon in the lower right, then click the "X"s to close everthing but the "protect" function. Alternatively, I think there is a preset #21 Ear Defender, which you could select which just has the "protect" function selected.

If still in edit mode, click the gear icon again to go back to the main screen and then double-click where is says 0db, and type 6 (or whatever you want) and Enter. If set too low, it will cut-out when you don't want it to. I hope that helps!


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## Saxer

ReelToLogic said:


> I set up the plugin a long time ago and now have it saved as a Logic preset so I had to go look and try to remember! I think the following is what I did:
> 
> To just use it for protection, insert SigMod on your master output (mine defaulted to the "Master Bus" preset) then click the gear icon in the lower right, then click the "X"s to close everthing but the "protect" function. Alternatively, I think there is a preset #21 Ear Defender, which you could select which just has the "protect" function selected.
> 
> If still in edit mode, click the gear icon again to go back to the main screen and then double-click where is says 0db, and type 6 (or whatever you want) and Enter. If set too low, it will cut-out when you don't want it to. I hope that helps!


Ah, thank you, that helps a lot!

I had that kind of "surprise" shortly with Seventh Heaven in Logic. I had a bunch of instances as an insert and all of them were bursting out noise in some level... (see picture below). Don't need that level of adrenaline again! I was afraid to use the plugin again but it's my favorite reverb! Good to have some protection!


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## JEPA

Nugen Audio Sigmod is the plugin hero for this kind of bursts... I have had the same problem with logic and VePro, Sigmod healed my mind.


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## Tanuj Tiku

Bman70 said:


> Can you say more about how a headphone amp with level control would protect from this? Wouldn't you still need to set the amp at a reasonable listening volume, and if a blast happened you wouldn't have time to turn it down? Or do headphone amps have some kind of limiting mechanism?
> 
> Anyway, these reports have kept me from buying Logic, which otherwise I would be interested in. I'll probably avoid Logic until I hear of a definite fix.


The extremely loud digital blasts cannot surpass the output level set on your amp.

Without a controller, it will get very loud and there can be serious risk of hearing damage or blowing up your speakers.


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## Dewdman42

Sigmod works fine. it does add a tiny bit of latency. It has a lot of other little useful features, that don't latency, only the protection module adds latency on it. 

Ice9 is free, no latency. My starter template has ice9 on it. 

I've definitely had these blasts in LogicPro, with or without VePro. VePro can sometimes cause it too, at one point I figured out that if VePro is configured to automatically add the RoomTone channel and if MirPro doesn't have an actual venue selected yet, then the blasts could happen.

But a while back I was getting those noise blasts after I updated to some version of LogicPro...about gave me a heart attack. Hasn't happened in a while...but anyway, these software glitches are always a possibility... I prefer having ice9 on there just in case.


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## CT

Tanuj Tiku said:


> The extremely loud digital blasts cannot surpass the output level set on your amp.
> 
> Without a controller, it will get very loud and there can be serious risk of hearing damage or blowing up your speakers.


This makes me feel a bit better since I'm using a little Apogee Groove now for both headphones and monitors, whereas before, everything was just coming right out of the headphone jack. I haven't had the issue in some time anyway, but it's nice to know that if it happens again maybe it won't be so friggin' ridiculous.


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## Wunderhorn

In my experience the blasts come from sample build-up.
Certain sound libraries are especially prone to it. E.g. NI's The Grandeur does it all the time with busy piano arrangements, even with SSDs, tons of RAM and a New 16 core Mac Pro. Also switching audio interfaces will not necessarily help.

Ice9 solves the problem, no need to switch DAWs.


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## dflood

I take it that Ice9 and Sigmod will only work if the problem originates somewhere before the master output in the DAW. For complete protection from other computer glitches that could cause the audio output to jump to maximum dB you would need some sort of outboard hardware limiters for speakers and headphones. Do such things exist? In my case I’m using an Apogee Duet interface, so would it be something inserted after that?


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## whinecellar

Geez, you guys are making me paranoid. As I said earlier, I’ve never experienced this in almost 30 years of using Logic, but enough of you have that I may never sleep again 😱


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## NoamL

Hi Rachel, I used to experience this a couple times a year on my old computer. Always a horrible experience. Apart from recommending ICE9, I can tell you the problem stopped once I moved from an 8GB macbook to a 16GB one, and I also used much fewer PLAY instruments. In retrospect therefore I think the problem happened from too much memory pressure. See if that's the case for you - always have your Activity Monitor open, and track how much you're stressing your system. "Swap used" should be zero, if not, it's time to start bouncing to audio etc.


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## Wunderhorn

NoamL said:


> In retrospect therefore I think the problem happened from too much memory pressure.


I don't think that's it. I have 224GB of RAM and even with only a quarter of it filled (I watch the memory usage) those blasts do happen.


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## David Kudell

Ok so we’ve narrowed down the issue to Logic, but possibly other DAWs too, running anywhere between 8-224GB of RAM, and VEPro but also not. It seems to happen with NI’s Grandeur and possibly every other instrument. Running a plug-in on the master bus will definitely fix it, except when it won’t, and it definitely happens on built-in audio hardware but also external ones too. 

Got it!


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## jcrosby

This has happened to me a few times. It's brutal! Are people reporting this to Apple? If not everyone in this thread should, as this issue seems to pop up in discussions frequently in the past few years and the risks are all valid... Hearing damage, blown speakers, etc.

Report here. Select "Bug Report" as the feedback type:


Feedback - Logic Pro – Apple


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## marclawsonmusic

This might be something in a more recent version of Logic. I'm on 10.4.4 and have been super stable since late 2019. 

I only had a white noise problem once and that was with a beta plugin back in 2012. Yuck.


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## JEPA

marclawsonmusic said:


> This might be something in a more recent version of Logic. I'm on 10.4.4 and have been super stable since late 2019.
> 
> I only had a white noise problem once and that was with a beta plugin back in 2012. Yuck.


no it isn't, I am too on 10.4.4 and see here...


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## Saxer

It always seems to be a combination of plugins and Logic to have "something going wrong". This also happened a decade ago. Sometimes with a big "Ohmph" like a full blown movement of the speaker calotte and silence after that, sometimes this endless digital trash or noise. In the cases I know of it happened with multiple instances of the same plugin on different channels (Vintage Warmer, WIVI, Seventh Heaven). In my last case (and after reducing speaker level) I searched for the source in the song. It was a mixing project, one of five songs with exactly the same settings and few tracks (below ten). In that case it was Seventh Heaven. After switching off all of them there was silence. Switching one of them on again brought back the digital trash noise. Same after saving and reloading the song. Nothing like that in the parallel songs with exactly the same settings. To be able to continue my work I replaced all Seventh Heaven's with Valhallas.


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## I like music

Hey, finally a thing I can relate to. It happened to me only once. And it was so bad that I think it may have damaged my ears permanently. I mean, it had to. It was the craziest sensory overload I've ever experienced.

It felt a lot like the time I got kneed in the head in Muay Thai and knocked out. Only worse, because I can still remember the feeling.

That was about two years ago. And every second of my existence since then has been me wondering "will it happened again?" 

Terrifying. I wish it on nobody.


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## davidson

Someone mentioned using a monitor controller as a safeguard to the problem. So, if I'm using an apollo twin I'd set that at max volume, into a monitor controller, which then runs to the monitors?

Can anyone recommend a half decent sounding monitor controller with a headphone out?


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## stingray306

José Herring said:


> When I started using Cubase back in 2005 of something. I got this a few times. It was completely audio driver related. Then Cubase implemented this feature where if your driver crashed it would mute the audio outputs so you wouldn't get this. Then I only insisted on getting good audio interfaces with stable drivers and haven't had that problem since that time.
> 
> Changing your audio interface should solve it-- that Logic hasn't implemented that simple feature borders on cruel and inhumane.


Thanks for this feedback!! I will upgrade my audio interface soon. One thing that is interesting is that this problem only seems to occur when I have video imported into the Logic session. At first I was wondering if there was a different sample rate in Kontakt on the PC than the sample rate in Logic, but it appears that they matched.


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## stingray306

whinecellar said:


> One thing I *have* seen in all my years is projects getting corrupt, which can cause all sorts of issues. As a result, I’ve learned to be OCD about keeping fresh, clean copies of everything, especially my Logic preferences. The minute something acts strange, I instantly quit, replace my Logic prefs with the clean copies, and reboot. That sorts me out probably 99% of the time...


I think you are right about the file being corrupt. I use the same template on both Logic and VEPro with the same instruments for every project, and never have this problem. This particular project gave me the WNBOD 3 times, as well as a very strange buzzing. I have a video of the buzzing sound if that is helpful. I eventually just had to keep rebooting the computer every time the buzzing started, which would give me about 30 minutes to work before it started happening again. I will keep this thread updated if I start having the problem in other projects -- the only difference with this particular project is that I imported video (which I don't do often these days as I am working on background music for games).


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## José Herring

stingray306 said:


> Thanks for this feedback!! I will upgrade my audio interface soon. One thing that is interesting is that this problem only seems to occur when I have video imported into the Logic session. At first I was wondering if there was a different sample rate in Kontakt on the PC than the sample rate in Logic, but it appears that they matched.


I got a Quantum 2020. It has no driver. I couldn't be happier. We'll see if it will last but it's been a few months with not one crash or even a dropout once I set it up properly.


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## ProfoundSilence

This thread is terrifying

Worst part is, users wouldn't have any idea it's even a possibility until it happens - which could cause irreversible damage. 

Would an auto muting limiter on the master bus help?


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## Snoobydoobydoo

Seems like it does happen to people using only logic stock plugins.

If its no user error, and irreversible harm appears:







davidson said:


> Someone mentioned using a monitor controller as a safeguard to the problem. So, if I'm using an apollo twin I'd set that at max volume, into a monitor controller, which then runs to the monitors?
> 
> Can anyone recommend a half decent sounding monitor controller with a headphone out?


The ones from SPL look good. (ControlOne, 2Control).

The thing is, if some master plugins, like automute, crash or fail when the blast happens, its not a 100% solution.


----------



## IFM

I've never actually had this happen that I can remember in Logic. I have had it happen repeatedly in Cubase when using VEP and ASIO Guard was set to high. Changing tracks would cause the blast.


----------



## lokotus

VEP and ASIO Guard on cubase doesn't work. Also use ice9 plugin to protect hearing...


----------



## IFM

lokotus said:


> VEP and ASIO Guard on cubase doesn't work. Also use ice9 plugin to protect hearing...


It absolutely works there is just a pause in audio. Medium setting never gave the blast but I’ve stopped using VEP so it doesn’t matter


----------



## lokotus

medium setting maybe, it also depends on latency set on the daw. save way to get rid of ver blast is disabling Casio guard for that plugin in cubase


----------



## IFM

lokotus said:


> medium setting maybe, it also depends on latency set on the daw. save way to get rid of ver blast is disabling Casio guard for that plugin in cubase


Ya I see now even VSL gave up. Point to LP here on making this work.


----------



## Zedcars

Apple had to comply with EU regulations to add volume limiting in all its iPods back in the day. They could easily code a safeguard to protect against blasts in macOS as could Microsoft for Windows users. As it’s happening to more and more people and is potentially damaging to your health I think this should be given far more attention than it is/has been. I’m so glad I read this thread. I’m going to start using Ice9 from today. This is quite frightening.


----------



## JEPA

Zedcars said:


> Apple had to comply with EU regulations to add volume limiting in all its iPods back in the day. They could easily code a safeguard to protect against blasts in macOS as could Microsoft for Windows users. As it’s happening to more and more people and is potentially damaging to your health I think this should be given far more attention than it is/has been. I’m so glad I read this thread. I’m going to start using Ice9 from today. This is quite frightening.


Could we VI-Control members write a letter together and send it as community to Apple?


----------



## markit

Oh wow, this happened to me too just a week ago! I was in Studio One (macOS) though.

And no audio interface for me, as I clearly remember I was procrastinating the installation of a switcher between my DAC, headphones amp, and monitors.

It was straight from S1 to MacBook, to headphones.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

JEPA said:


> Could we VI-Control members write a letter together and send it as community to Apple?


Count me in.
Well, i use Sigmod atm. and feel safer, does what it should, but still not the perfect solution.

So, there are reports from Logic, Cubase, FLStudio (doh, maybe theres that limiter on an empty project for a reason!), and S1. Most reports from Logic.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

Btw. In Logic, take care that if you use an Automute Plug on the Master Bus, that Logics dynamic plug in loading is disabled. Otherwise it could happen that the Plug Inn is disabled without noticing.

Choose File > Project Settings > General, then deselect "Only load plug-ins needed for project playback."


----------



## Collywobbles

I used an M-audio Profire and Sonar for a decade and did not experience this issue even once. As soon as I switched from FireWire to usb (Focusrite Scarlett) I started getting bursts multiple times a day. I then moved over to Cubase and the issue went away again - been burst free for two years. 

I'm not sure this will be helpful to anyone other than pointing out that it seems like certain combos just cause this to happen for whatever reason, regardless of your DAW. Hope everyone experiencing it manages to get it resolved, since it is absolutely awful.


----------



## Guavadude

I have this happen more times than I can count, luckily never wearing headphones. And apparently my Adam speakers have some sort of protection built in thankfully. But each time, my head snaps back so fast I feel like I've had whip lash.

The issue is definitely in the software, Logic for me. So adding another monitor controller after wouldn't make any difference since my RME UFX's volume control is still fully functional.
I am using USB to connect and might should consider getting a Thunderbolt to Firewire converter and trying that. I don't seem to remember it happening when I used to use Firewire, but that was a long time and several Logic updates ago.

Ice 9 AU doesn't work and as I mentioned, it's the entire Logic output that freezes at full blast, so I don't think anything in the DAW will help. I have to reset the audio driver in Logic or power cycle the UFX interface to make the audio blast stop. 

But I think I at least found a safety net for anyone using RME interfaces and Totalmix. There's an Output Protector preset for the Auto Level that you can recall in the dynamics effect on the Main Out. The problem is that it has a 3db minimum setting for the headroom. My Software Playback audio channel in Totalmix is usually set to 0db. When using a limiter on a mix, I'm hitting .02 peak so the Auto Level is kicking in and can be heard, which I don't want.

The work around I found is to set the software playback channel to -3.1 dB. Now the software playback won't trigger the Auto Level normally but it will if Logic explodes. There's no latency and since it's below the 3db headroom threshold, there's no sound difference. I hope this helps anyone else but especially me and my tattered nerves.

Here are the settings: engage Auto Level and turn everything to the left, lowest value. Set software playback channel to -3.1


----------



## Dewdman42

ice9 works for me. what doesn't it work for you?


----------



## Guavadude

I'm installing the AU 1.1.0 version and Logic doesn't even see it. The link says 1.1.1 version but the download is 1.1.0. Is your version 1.1.1 and it's working in Logic? I wouldn't mind having it installed as well and ten other things also just in case. I can't add latency though.

Ice 9 1.1.0 June 24, 2016 is what is installing. I'm guessing it's 32bit and Logic is ignoring it.


----------



## Dewdman42

This is what is running in Logic for me:






I presume its the latest version that I have posted, its been a while since I installed it.

Did you attempt to reboot your computer after install? LogicPro doesn't see some plugins after you install them until you either reboot or run the following command in the terminal and restart LogicPro:



Code:


killall -9 AudioComponentRegistrar


----------



## Guavadude

doh, know better and should have restarted. Usually plugins wake up after install if I just reboot Logic. 
Ice9 is working! Thx for the help!


----------



## Dewdman42

in the future remember that terminal command I mentioned above, that accomplishes the same thing without a reboot. I have it saved as a script that I can just run quickly after I install plugins to make sure LogicPro will see them when I relaunch LogicPro.


----------



## lokotus

Ice9 Automute by Cerberus Audio should be helpful for muting over 0dbfs​


----------



## davidson

I finally bought a separate analogue monitor controller with headphone amp built in, and now I run my UA interface into that to control the volume. No more walking on eggshells every time I boot logic up


----------



## Bman70

lokotus said:


> Ice9 Automute by Cerberus Audio should be helpful for muting over 0dbfs​


This link says discontinued, there may be other links where it's still available buried somewhere in this or another thread.


----------



## Dewdman42

Here ya go: https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145531&hilit=ice9#p757888

_Note: The AU version of this plugin requires a reboot before LogicPro will see it. This is true of many plugins ever since Apple updated something in MacOS... Alternatively you can use the following terminal command to avoid having to reboot._



Code:


killall -9 AudioComponentRegistrar


----------



## Gingerbread

Dewdman42 said:


> Here ya go: https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145531&hilit=ice9#p757888
> 
> _Note: The AU version of this plugin requires a reboot before LogicPro will see it. This is true of many plugins ever since Apple updated something in MacOS... Alternatively you can use the following terminal command to avoid having to reboot._
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> killall -9 AudioComponentRegistrar


Just curious, will this plugin work in the latest versions of Mac OS, which now require all plugins to be 64bit?


----------



## Dewdman42

the plugin is 64bit. I can't speak for the latest version of MacOS because I'm on Catalina.


----------



## Gingerbread

Dewdman42 said:


> the plugin is 64bit. I can't speak for the latest version of MacOS because I'm on Catalina.


Okay, perfect. As long as it's 64bit and works in Catalina, I'm satisfied it'll work in later versions. Thanks so much for posting the link to it!


----------



## Kent

Guavadude said:


> I have this happen more times than I can count, luckily never wearing headphones. And apparently my Adam speakers have some sort of protection built in thankfully. But each time, my head snaps back so fast I feel like I've had whip lash.
> 
> The issue is definitely in the software, Logic for me. So adding another monitor controller after wouldn't make any difference since my RME UFX's volume control is still fully functional.
> I am using USB to connect and might should consider getting a Thunderbolt to Firewire converter and trying that. I don't seem to remember it happening when I used to use Firewire, but that was a long time and several Logic updates ago.
> 
> Ice 9 AU doesn't work and as I mentioned, it's the entire Logic output that freezes at full blast, so I don't think anything in the DAW will help. I have to reset the audio driver in Logic or power cycle the UFX interface to make the audio blast stop.
> 
> But I think I at least found a safety net for anyone using RME interfaces and Totalmix. There's an Output Protector preset for the Auto Level that you can recall in the dynamics effect on the Main Out. The problem is that it has a 3db minimum setting for the headroom. My Software Playback audio channel in Totalmix is usually set to 0db. When using a limiter on a mix, I'm hitting .02 peak so the Auto Level is kicking in and can be heard, which I don't want.
> 
> The work around I found is to set the software playback channel to -3.1 dB. Now the software playback won't trigger the Auto Level normally but it will if Logic explodes. There's no latency and since it's below the 3db headroom threshold, there's no sound difference. I hope this helps anyone else but especially me and my tattered nerves.
> 
> Here are the settings: engage Auto Level and turn everything to the left, lowest value. Set software playback channel to -3.1


Auto level scares me—how can you trust what you’re hearing?

I’d use the Dynamics Preset settings for this, and disable the Auto Level.

::edit:: or the 'Output Protector' Factory Preset, which *does* use Auto Level—that's likely okay, too.


----------



## marclawsonmusic

I am using Ice9 since I saw this original post a few months ago. It works great. Also on Catalina on a fairly recent version of Logic.


----------



## Guavadude

kmaster said:


> Auto level scares me—how can you trust what you’re hearing?
> 
> I’d use the Dynamics Preset settings for this, and disable the Auto Level.
> 
> ::edit:: or the 'Output Protector' Factory Preset, which *does* use Auto Level—that's likely okay, too.


You can tell when Auto Level is working by seeing the gain reduction in the fader metering. 

I am using the Output Protector preset but the problem is that Auto Level has a 3db setting as the lowest headroom threshold. So as I detailed, you have to bring your software playback fader down -3.1db to be below the threshold. Auto Level now only activates when needed and not all the time.

Basically, they should have set the Auto Level up like Ice9 where the threshold can be positive or negative, any value from -12 to +12db, but since it's not you need to adjust to use it. You just have to kick your monitoring gain up 3db from where you normally would set it to compensate for the -3.1db playback fader new position.

Ice9 seems to be working but I still don't think it will work when Logic freaks out because it seems to me like it's a bug at the driver level and not just a plugin audio problem. I have to reset the audio driver in Logic or reboot the RME UFX to make it stop.

I do feel much better now having a software and hardware safety plan in action.


----------



## Guavadude

One thing I forgot to mention is if you use an RME interface and Totalmix and are using the Auto Level as output protector on the Mains, be sure to add it to the headphone outputs as well. I have the headroom threshold on the headphones set to 10db but might set it on max protection, need to confirm the best settings. 

This does work well. When AL kicks in, it stays on and the gain stays reduced until you reset Logic by inserting a different instrument. You don't have to reboot the interface or Logic completely.


----------



## Guavadude

For the headphone outs, I'm now using the same settings on the Auto Level as the Main outs like the image I posted above: Max Gain 0.0, Headroom 3.0, RiseTime 0.1. Just be sure to lower Software playback level feeding the headphone outputs to -3.1 just like the Main Outputs.


----------



## ip20

davidson said:


> I finally bought a separate analogue monitor controller with headphone amp built in, and now I run my UA interface into that to control the volume. No more walking on eggshells every time I boot logic up



Which one did you go with? I looked through a few of the entry level ones but it didn’t appear like they had headphone jack.


----------



## davidson

ip20 said:


> Which one did you go with? I looked through a few of the entry level ones but it didn’t appear like they had headphone jack.


The behringer monitor 2 usb. Brilliant unit, although a bit bigger than I would have liked.


----------



## ip20

davidson said:


> The behringer monitor 2 usb. Brilliant unit, although a bit bigger than I would have liked.


Thank you!


----------



## Saxer

I have the Nugen SigMod in the main stereo out channel. Saved my day a few times. I set it to +3dBTP. When level gets higher the signal is cut and has to be reconnected manually in the plugin window.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

Saxer said:


> I have the Nugen SigMod in the main stereo out channel. Saved my day a few times. I set it to +3dBTP. When level gets higher the signal is cut and has to be reconnected manually in the plugin window.


Yepp, its always there in my chain too and does its work perfectly. Never had that noise from hell blast but it saved myself from some accidental spikes while sounddesigning or mindless actions.
Recommended for organic health.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

Nugen currently has a 100$ Voucher, so you could get SigMod for free, at least it should work i think.


----------



## rnb_2

I took the survey to get the free plugin and voucher - note that the voucher has to be used on something that costs more than the $100 voucher. So, you'll have to grab SigMod + something that costs $51+ to use the voucher. They don't have anything between $49 and $99, so you're going to have to spend at least $48 to get SigMod ($49 + $99), so you'll only save $1 if you just want SigMod, but you'll get something else with it. They do have a few things at $129, though, if you already have SigMod or don't need it.

Is anybody else having difficulty getting an account activated on the Nugen site? I'm logged in, but it says that I haven't responded to the account confirmation email. Unfortunately, I haven't received an email from them, even after having it resend - I've checked spam, etc - nothing.


----------



## AlexRuger

Funny, hadn't thought about this in years, but yeah, back when I used Logic (would've been Logic 8 and 9, up until 2012, shortly before they released X), this happened a few times. It was especially bad when exporting a Quicktime video -- seemed like there was a 50/50 chance that the video's audio would be a White Noise Blast Of Death.

This thread is making me remember that this bug was one of the primary reasons I switched to Cubase. Never experienced it since.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the severe tinnitus and hyperacusis I experience today. I've had trouble pinning down a cause, as I've always been super protective of my ears, but yeah, those WNBODs were absolutely brutal, and unfortunately I experienced a few of them. 

Ridiculous that this stuff still happens though. You'd think they'd have ironed this out a decade ago.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

rnb_2 said:


> I took the survey to get the free plugin and voucher - note that the voucher has to be used on something that costs more than the $100 voucher. So, you'll have to grab SigMod + something that costs $51+ to use the voucher. They don't have anything between $49 and $99, so you're going to have to spend at least $48 to get SigMod ($49 + $99), so you'll only save $1 if you just want SigMod, but you'll get something else with it. They do have a few things at $129, though, if you already have SigMod or don't need it.
> 
> Is anybody else having difficulty getting an account activated on the Nugen site? I'm logged in, but it says that I haven't responded to the account confirmation email. Unfortunately, I haven't received an email from them, even after having it resend - I've checked spam, etc - nothing.


Ahhkk. So theres the trick. Didnt tried it as i have sigmod already. But still, maybe a good time still to go for it, if you dont have it.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

rnb_2 said:


> Is anybody else having difficulty getting an account activated on the Nugen site? I'm logged in, but it says that I haven't responded to the account confirmation email. Unfortunately, I haven't received an email from them, even after having it resend - I've checked spam, etc - nothing.


No, not at all. Maybe they are overloaded atm. But sometimes i dont receive activation mails from elsewhere, some may block certain mail hosts.


----------



## rnb_2

rnb_2 said:


> Is anybody else having difficulty getting an account activated on the Nugen site? I'm logged in, but it says that I haven't responded to the account confirmation email. Unfortunately, I haven't received an email from them, even after having it resend - I've checked spam, etc - nothing.


I sent an email to Nugen's support last night, and got a reply this morning that they had an email issue over the weekend that had been fixed. I'm all set.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

rnb_2 said:


> I sent an email to Nugen's support last night, and got a reply this morning that they had an email issue over the weekend that had been fixed. I'm all set.


Aha. Ok then. They are still all ears for customer.


----------



## rnb_2

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Aha. Ok then. They are still all ears for customer.


Any idea if they've given a timeframe for Apple Silicon support? I didn't find a listing or mention of them on the KVR topic.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

rnb_2 said:


> Any idea if they've given a timeframe for Apple Silicon support? I didn't find a listing or mention of them on the KVR topic.


Nope, as im on intel still. Does it run (not natively)?


----------



## rnb_2

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Nope, as im on intel still. Does it run (not natively)?


I haven't tried the free plugin from the survey yet, and haven't used the voucher for anything else. I assume they'll work via Rosetta, just not sure if I want to add more non-native plugins at this point. I was hoping to get SigMod to replace Ice9, which will never be native, but SigMod isn't expensive, and without a roadmap of when it will be native, it's not that hard to wait.


----------



## Wedge

I had something similar happen using Studio One going straight through headpones on laptop, no sound module. It happened in my left ear only and fucked me up. I threw my headphones off. But not fast enough, I lost all the high end. My tinitus was gone, which was really wierd. I also couldn't hear the distortion on guitars, high hats, or cyms out of that ear. Saw a specialist and was put on a huge dose of steriods. The steriods fucked me up for a couple weeks. But I got some of the hearing back. I can hear high hats these days. But if I wear headphones for more than fifteen minutes I feel like cotton is in that ear and everything is muffled for a day after. My tinitus is at different pitches depending on the ear now, as some of the high end is still missing in lefty. I'm happy I can hear the highs, that was fucking heart breaking. But it will never be the same. It's not fucking worth it. I've had a brickwall limiter on my master ever since. Don't be like me. Uneven hearing is frustrating. I hadn't heard of Ice9 until today, thanks thread. I'm going to be testing it out later today.


----------



## Wunderhorn

I don't understand why DAW developers cannot put a standard protection into the master bus like Ice9 as part of every basic setup (with the user having to turn it off deliberately if they need to).

Everything else feels like there should be a serious discussion about liability in the case of hearing loss due to a malfunctioning DAW, resulting in a noise blast.


----------



## Ivan M.

Wunderhorn said:


> I don't understand why DAW developers cannot put a standard protection into the master bus like Ice9 as part of every basic setup (with the user having to turn it off deliberately if they need to).
> 
> Everything else feels like there should be a serious discussion about liability in the case of hearing loss due to a malfunctioning DAW, resulting in a noise blast.


Reaper has it. :D I also use Soundsource and have a limiter on the main out. Also considering a hardware limiter.


----------



## ip20

Wedge said:


> I had something similar happen using Studio One going straight through headpones on laptop, no sound module. It happened in my left ear only and fucked me up. I threw my headphones off. But not fast enough, I lost all the high end. My tinitus was gone, which was really wierd. I also couldn't hear the distortion on guitars, high hats, or cyms out of that ear. Saw a specialist and was put on a huge dose of steriods. The steriods fucked me up for a couple weeks. But I got some of the hearing back. I can hear high hats these days. But if I wear headphones for more than fifteen minutes I feel like cotton is in that ear and everything is muffled for a day after. My tinitus is at different pitches depending on the ear now, as some of the high end is still missing in lefty. I'm happy I can hear the highs, that was fucking heart breaking. But it will never be the same. It's not fucking worth it. I've had a brickwall limiter on my master ever since. Don't be like me. Uneven hearing is frustrating. I hadn't heard of Ice9 until today, thanks thread. I'm going to be testing it out later today.



This is a frightening incident. I hope Ice9 works out for you. Keep us posted.


----------



## ip20

Wunderhorn said:


> I don't understand why DAW developers cannot put a standard protection into the master bus like Ice9 as part of every basic setup (with the user having to turn it off deliberately if they need to).
> 
> Everything else feels like there should be a serious discussion about liability in the case of hearing loss due to a malfunctioning DAW, resulting in a noise blast.



100%


----------



## AlexRuger

Wedge said:


> I can hear high hats these days. But if I wear headphones for more than fifteen minutes I feel like cotton is in that ear and everything is muffled for a day after. My tinittus is at different pitches depending on the ear now, as some of the high end is still missing in lefty.


This is similar to my story, except my right ear is the bad one. It takes basically nothing for it to feel like it's full of cotton or water/to lose the highs again for a few days. Does yours also come with copious amounts of random pain?


----------



## Wedge

AlexRuger said:


> This is similar to my story, except my right ear is the bad one. It takes basically nothing for it to feel like it's full of cotton or water/to lose the highs again for a few days. Does yours also come with copious amounts of random pain?


It doesn't have any pain, thank god! It's just feels like it's full of cotton or water and feels like it's slightly vibrating at a lower midrange pitch (I call it 'the hums'). I used to get pain in both my ears. It was random and in only one ear at a time. But that was from concerts, I went to hundreds as a youngin. But I took a ten year break from music and the random pain, and my tinitus, went away. I got the tinitus back, not nearly as bad this time. But the pain is still gone. It was a weird sharp pain and it went away faster if I jammed my finger in my ear a few times( I'm guessing by screwing with the air pressure.) I had completely forgotten about that. What's your random pain like?


----------



## Wedge

ip20 said:


> This is a frightening incident. I hope Ice9 works out for you. Keep us posted.


I didn't find a way to increase the db value to mute. But it seems to work as advertised, so I think it will be a default addition to my Master track. Thank you for your concern.


----------



## AlexRuger

Wedge said:


> It doesn't have any pain, thank god! It's just feels like it's full of cotton or water and feels like it's slightly vibrating at a lower midrange pitch (I call it 'the hums'). I used to get pain in both my ears. It was random and in only one ear at a time. But that was from concerts, I went to hundreds as a youngin. But I took a ten year break from music and the random pain, and my tinitus, went away. I got the tinitus back, not nearly as bad this time. But the pain is still gone. It was a weird sharp pain and it went away faster if I jammed my finger in my ear a few times( I'm guessing by screwing with the air pressure.) I had completely forgotten about that. What's your random pain like?


Basically like a knife being pushed into my ear ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

I recently learned of the term "noxacusis" and that pretty much fits me to a T.


----------



## Wedge

AlexRuger said:


> Basically like a knife being pushed into my ear ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> I recently learned of the term "noxacusis" and that pretty much fits me to a T.


I had to look noxacusis up, yay I learned something. I don't know if it's the kind of a thing an ENT could help with. But I'd recommend looking into it, if you haven't, since they have helped me in the past. Sorry Alex, that's a drag.


----------



## AlexRuger

Wedge said:


> I had to look noxacusis up, yay I learned something. I don't know if it's the kind of a thing an ENT could help with. But I'd recommend looking into it, if you haven't, since they have helped me in the past. Sorry Alex, that's a drag.


I'm long past looking for help -- no one can do anything, unfortunately. Most docs don't even know the word Hyperacusis, let alone Noxacusis, and those that do tend to admit they're as in the dark as we are.

Thank you though, I appreciate it.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

rnb_2 said:


> I haven't tried the free plugin from the survey yet, and haven't used the voucher for anything else. I assume they'll work via Rosetta, just not sure if I want to add more non-native plugins at this point. I was hoping to get SigMod to replace Ice9, which will never be native, but SigMod isn't expensive, and without a roadmap of when it will be native, it's not that hard to wait.


I see. Im even on Mavericks and skipped bog sur, i dont change the system unless theres something really useful at hand.
Maybe ask them via mail?


----------



## Ivan M.

Maybe we can create a plugin. I don't know if JUCE is free for freeware? Or alternatively an AU plugin using the Xcode template. AU approach, however, leaves win users out. Also, not sure if Apple requires code signing. Maybe a limiter is enough, I don't know. But once everyone releases M1 support, ice9 is out.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

When something really bad happens, like the daw or Plug Ins freeze and the blast happens after that theres still that danger without using something external at the end of the chain. But strange accidents happen, those guitar amps gain knobs are a special kind of demons.
I only had bad experiences playing around with comb filters or resonators back then and that teached me to handle them softly.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

Ivan M. said:


> Maybe we can create a plugin. I don't know if JUCE is free for freeware? Or alternatively an AU plugin using the Xcode template. AU approach, however, leaves win users out. Also, not sure if Apple requires code signing. Maybe a limiter is enough, I don't know. But once everyone releases M1 support, ice9 is out.


Oh i could help with the Gui color (purple/pinkish) or find a name (Ear Waxxine maybe).


----------



## Ivan M.

I always have my computer volume on max, but interface headphone knob on almost minimum. That way, if OS gets messed up at least the system volume can't blast at me (sample values will still be wild). I gotta find a hardware limiter...


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

Ivan M. said:


> I always have my computer volume on max, but interface headphone knob on almost minimum. That way, if OS gets messed up at least the system volume can't blast at me (sample values will still be wild). I gotta find a hardware limiter...


Please keep me informed. Id like a 1HU one  
Btw. cant be something inserted on the output of the audio interface mixer (uad console or rme total mix)?


----------



## rnb_2

For anybody who is still thinking about SigMod, it's on sale through July 11 for $29US. It's also available at Best Service - haven't checked other retail outlets yet.


----------



## robgb

stingray306 said:


> Yesterday I was working away on a project in Logic, and one of the tracks was buzzing a little bit (some sort of glitch). So I ended up deleting that track (as I didn't need it), and unloaded the sample library it was using in VEPro. Shortly after this, I got the "white noise blast of death". For those unaware of the WNBOD, multiple Logic users have reported experiencing an extremely loud blast/explosion sound that shows up on Logic's meter as being between 500-800db (which is impossible, but whatever the actual value is, it is EXTREMELY loud). Some users have reported permanent hearing damage and tinnitus caused by the WNBOD, and neither Apple or the Logic community have found a solution. Unfortunately I was wearing headphones when this happened, so I experienced bad headaches and aching ears last night, and they were ringing for a few hours. Thankfully today my ears and hearing are back to normal.
> 
> Today, things seemed to be working fine in Logic until now -- my Logic tracks suddenly started switching volumes (some would suddenly be louder and some would suddenly be quiet, even though the volume / automation hadn't been changed). I had to go in and bump up volume on the now quiet tracks and turn down the too-loud tracks. Also, some tracks were registering on the Logic meter but were not actually playing any sound. VEPro seemed to be the culprit here -- the tracks were not registering on the sample library meters, but midi information was coming through. Immediately after these things started happening, the overall sound of the track began to buzz, and I started getting flashbacks to last night; the buzzing was the precursor to the white noise blast of death. I was too scared to even try to trouble-shoot, so I closed everything and shut down the computer. I'm not sure if the buzzing was caused by some damage to my headphones from the blast yesterday, or if it's a sign that another blast is coming.
> 
> Even though no one has figured out what causes this or why, I'm trying to gather some clues as to what might be the culprit. While a lot of people have had this problem in Logic before, I honestly think VEPro could be the culprit here. (I've experienced loud blasts in Logic in the past, but nothing like this).
> 
> One other thing that has been happening lately is that when I shut my computer off, either the computer or the speakers "pop" or "click", which has never happened until recently. The speakers or computer also makes a little pop/click sounds multiple times throughout the night when I'm not using it. (But keep in mind, the blast occurred through my headphones, so it isn't directly linked to the speakers -- maybe the audio interface?). Could this issue maybe be caused by an electricity problem? Bad cables/cords? I'm really not a tech person, but I am absolutely terrified of the WNBOD happening again. Any ideas or leads would be so greatly appreciated, even if it's a shot in the dark. I'll do anything.
> 
> Note: I did put a limiter into the master track, but people online say this is not likely to help.
> Another Note: I am working on a late 2013 iMac with High Sierra, VEPro is running on an external PC routed into the Mac via ethernet cable.


Doesn't Logic have a setting that automatically mutes the faders with a loud blast of audio? Reaper has this, so I assume most DAWs do.


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## Guavadude

No Logic doesn’t have a fail safe limiter but I’m not so sure it’s needed anymore. I lost Ice9 in the move to my Studio Max and have been thinking about replacing it with SigMod or something. In native mode, Logic seems to catch any plug-in that’s acting up, so far. It asks if I want to relaunch or quit so I’m thinking it might catch the offending plug-ins that create the noise issues. But this is just a theory.


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## synergy543

rnb_2 said:


> For anybody who is still thinking about SigMod, it's on sale through July 11 for $29US. It's also available at Best Service - haven't checked other retail outlets yet.


I have been using SigMod and I highly recommend it. Its gone off several times when I've had loud bursts of noise suddenly and the breaker turns off. It takes a few seconds to turn it back on, but rather than being annoyed, I'm very grateful that it saved me from some anguish.


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## Guavadude

Does sigmod let you route audio also? I’m still looking for a simple solution to capture audio when capturing screen video.


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## Saxer

Found this picture and immediately realized it would perfectly match this thread


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## synergy543

Guavadude said:


> Does sigmod let you route audio also? I’m still looking for a simple solution to capture audio when capturing screen video.


Sigmod does other things like mono, invert, crossover, etc. However, I don't think it does audio routing other than that. Maybe what you want is more like Loop Back from Rogue Amoeba which I can also highly recommend (along with Audio Hijack which also does some routing functions)!





Loopback - Cable-free audio routing for Mac


Get all the power of a high-end studio mixing board, right inside your Mac!




rogueamoeba.com


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## Gabriel S.

You only need a monitor controller. Why using a limiter? Maybe to protect your speakers, but not your ears. The DA converter has a maximum output limit, so even if you have +500dB in your DAW, it won't reproduce them, it will sound heavily distorted but not louder. If you work at low levels with your monitor controller, you'll never damage your ears no matter what. Even with a blast of a gazillion trillion 99999 dBs...

If you gain stage properly, you shouldn't have such issues. So, try to work with a K-system like K-14 or K-20 and then you are safe. Don't turn up the monitor controller, only for specific moments.


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## Guavadude

Well my idea that the M1 plugins might quit on their own if there's an issue is definitely incorrect! Just got the death blast. I think I know which plugin it was but until I'm sure I don't want to criticize a company. 

Sig Mod purchased and installed.


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## Snoobydoobydoo

Guavadude said:


> . I think I know which plugin it was but until I'm sure I don't want to criticize a company.


Its not really criticism if its caused by „circumstances“ in the DAW.

SigMod isnt Big Sur/Monty compatible yet, but Nugen wrote it runs and problems are rare. But…


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## marclawsonmusic

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Its not really criticism if its caused by „circumstances“ in the DAW.


I would guess it's some kind of reverb / spatialization plugin. That's the only time I've encountered this before.


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## Snoobydoobydoo

marclawsonmusic said:


> I would guess it's some kind of reverb / spatialization plugin. That's the only time I've encountered this before.


I never had a full blast, but some Synths with Combfilters or Resonators should be handled with extra caution, SigMod stopped some careless tweaking. The Apple Magic mouse, no matter how careful you are, scrolls evil things in a synth…


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## Guavadude

Previously it has always been VI synths that caused the blast. This time it was a Kontakt piano I was using which is very stable. I don’t think it was this.

I almost always add plugins during playback. I like to keep the music going when composing and editing, keeps me in the flow. If I have a consistent issue with a plugin working this way, I’ll just stop using it. Fast and stable are what I look for the most.

I added a newer high quality EQ plugin and an overload popup came up which was strange. I added a compressor and got the same overload popup. I recalled a preset in the Eq and then blast of death. Next time I get an overload like that I’ll quit Logic and relaunch. After I installed, I restarted the Max and recalled the same ch strip settings and didn’t have any issues. So it’s hard to say what caused it but I’m guessing the new fancy Eq didn’t help. It was also total overkill for the pop piano sound I was going for…the stock Eq would have been fine. I’m a beta tester and even though this was a release, I wanted to try using it more to see where it works well.

It seems like once I started using Ice 9 on my Trashcan I never got the BoD. It would trigger if my output crept up too high as it should though. Ice 9 wouldn’t pass AU at all on the Max. Unfortunately SigMod isn’t M1 ready but it seems to be working fine in Monterey and Logic 10.7.4 in Native mode. I recommend grabbing it while it’s on sale for $29.


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