# Altiverb 7 coming up...



## Garlu (Dec 7, 2011)

It seems is really close... 

Some nice new features:


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## Daryl (Dec 7, 2011)

It looks nice, but it seems to me that there is a lot of effort spent on producing nothing particularly new in terms of sound. What I would be interested to know is whether the stage positioning works better (it's not very good in AV6), and whether the engine has improved; with AV6 the sounds sometimes bounce around uncontrollably from side to side, especially when stage positioning is being used.

The jewel in the AV crown has always been the impulses, and for Post I would imagine that AV will still be very important. However, I've dumped AV from my template and am using VSL Convolution Reverb and Hybrid Reverb, both of which sound way better than AV (IMO), have none of the above mentioned problems, and are also 64bit. I also use Lexicon PCM, which sounds so much better than any of the sampled digital reverb impulses one can buy.

I think that AudioEase has to prove something with this new version, or I won't even be considering upgrading.

D


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## jamwerks (Dec 7, 2011)

It will be interesting to hear how this compares to Spaces and the VSL Hybride & MIR Pro, as far as putting samples on a stage, and how good that algo tail is. Did he mention if it's 64 bit?


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## Conor (Dec 7, 2011)

I really, really like that hall-selection interface (searching, seeing the spaces before loading them, "sounds like..." etc.). Seems like it will be much easier to experiment without it being a huge time sink.

...even if I usually come back around to Todd AO anyway. :lol:

Any word on pricing? (Upgrade from 6?)


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## musicpete (Dec 7, 2011)

Hmmmm, looks remotely interesting. But for me it's too little, too late....

While the Audioease guys were buried in their work there came out plenty of great 64-bit alternatives to AV6. The main thing they still got going for their product are the awesome impulses.


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## Daryl (Dec 7, 2011)

Just got the email. Mac only. So I won't be getting it anyway. :lol: 

D


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## Tanuj Tiku (Dec 7, 2011)

I agree with Daryl. I have had the same problems with Altiverb and havnt used it for the last 3 years. 

I now only use VSL convolution and Hybrid. They are much better than AV and they are 64-bit, which is great.

Tanuj.


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## Blackster (Dec 7, 2011)

Actually, it's NOT Mac only. I also received the email from AudioEase and it said "Mac only". Then, I wrote to their support and asked why they cancel the support for PC users. After 2 hours they replied that there will be a PC version as well. But a bit later. 

Though I don't know if it's 64bit ...


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## Daryl (Dec 7, 2011)

Blackster @ Wed Dec 07 said:


> Actually, it's NOT Mac only. I also received the email from AudioEase and it said "Mac only". Then, I wrote to their support and asked why they cancel the support for PC users. After 2 hours they replied that there will be a PC version as well. But a bit later.
> 
> Though I don't know if it's 64bit ...



Later means nothing. As of now there is no PC version. So, Mac only...

Anyway, as I said there are better options for me, both in terms of features and sound, so it doesn't really matter. :wink: 

D


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## MichaelL (Dec 7, 2011)

Altiverb 7 is 64 bit.

From Audio Ease support:

"Yes, of course. 
More news on what/how/etc Altiverb 7 will be, on our site, as soon as Altiverb 7
is ready.

Best regards,

Aram Verwoest
Audio Ease"


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 7, 2011)

Actually I think the stage positioning in AV6 is very good. Not as good as MIR, of course, but it does work better than standard amplitude-based panning. It works better than delay-based panning too, and it doesn't have the side effects.


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## rayinstirling (Dec 7, 2011)

Since moving on to x64 OS and Cubase on PC I've hardly looked at Altiverb 6.
It'll have to be a very special update to win back those who have moved on, as and when a PC version arrives. I suspect, that is why they concentrate on Mac first.


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## Daryl (Dec 7, 2011)

rayinstirling @ Wed Dec 07 said:


> Since moving on to x64 OS and Cubase on PC I've hardly looked at Altiverb 6.
> It'll have to be a very special update to win back those who have moved on, as and when a PC version arrives. I suspect, that is why they concentrate on Mac first.


I suspect that they concentrate on Mac because at heart they are, and always have been, a Mac based company. The Mac version existed first (hence the name), and right from the release of the PC version, had more features. A bit like Avid (formally Digidesign) and Pro Tools.

However, in the old days Altiverb was really the only game in town, and it was fantastic when it was released for Windows, but now there are many options, and better ones, IMO.

D


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## gsilbers (Dec 7, 2011)

finally... 

like 2 namms ago when it was announced. 

does it have algo verb as well now?


i loved the part where u can grab a snippet of audio in snapper and drag it into altiverb and u get this rhythmic percolating sound.


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## rayinstirling (Dec 7, 2011)

Daryl @ Wed Dec 07 said:


> However, in the old days Altiverb was really the only game in town, and it was fantastic when it was released for Windows, but now there are many options, and better ones, IMO.
> 
> D



I agree and I have spent some time then on get the distances right with predelay ER etc. etc. but now I feel "life is too short" o/~


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## KMuzzey (Dec 8, 2011)

I love my Altiverb & can't wait for v7, just for the 64-bit capability. Now if only Waves would get around to finally converting everything to 64-bit, I'd finally be able to start using Logic in 64-bit mode.

Kerry


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## soniccouture (Dec 8, 2011)

Another big vote for Altiverb here - I love it (and Speakerphone) for sound design. sounds great, and is more flexible than others. Cpu usage is also very moderate.

the interface on Spaces is just too slow to navigate, and pretty basic in terms of features for me.

James


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## rayinstirling (Dec 8, 2011)

OK, I've got Altiverb 6 so I'm really interested in knowing how others use it.
Do many folks use the positioning option or just the front to back tweaks using seperate channel panning. I'm all ears. o


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## dfhagai (Dec 8, 2011)

liked the way he explained how IR technology works, very informative


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 8, 2011)

I knew all about convolution technology and found that part boring. 

Seriously, I was expecting more in terms of new features' descriptions. What exactly is new with version 7?


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## Daryl (Dec 8, 2011)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Thu Dec 08 said:


> I knew all about convolution technology and found that part boring.
> 
> Seriously, I was expecting more in terms of new features' descriptions. What exactly is new with version 7?


Other than gimmicks, I think the new features are 64bit, and the algorithmic part. Of course neither of those are exactly new, but they are to AudioEase. :wink: 

D


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 8, 2011)

And that's enough to warrant to calling it 7? Maybe 6.5 would make more sense.


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## Daryl (Dec 8, 2011)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Thu Dec 08 said:


> And that's enough to warrant to calling it 7? Maybe 6.5 would make more sense.


I think the problem I have is that whilst there are quite a few things that are improved (such as the visual handling of the EQ), most of what I saw in the video has already been done by other developers. The only really new thing was the drag and drop of audio files into the GUI, but for me that has no use at all. Obviously for people working on sound design, it may well be a life saver.

And that is one of the problems. AV is not a exclusively a music plug, so whilst I may find the new features rather underwhelming, for people doing sound design or Post they may be just what the Doctor ordered.

D


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## gsilbers (Dec 8, 2011)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Thu Dec 08 said:


> And that's enough to warrant to calling it 7? Maybe 6.5 would make more sense.



i think there us plenty more that was not mentioned but i could be wrong. 

i remember namm 2 yrs ago where altiverb had algorithmic reverb and could be mixed with the convolution one. 


and btw.. 

what else where u expecting from a convolution plugin? 

it does the same thing but hopefully with better IRs and a some new features. 

i do love the new fx feature of dropping just a chunk of audio as your IR. 

that is a major plus for sound design in film scores.


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## mducharme (Dec 8, 2011)

Looks like the new Altiverb 7 website has gone live:

http://www.audioease.com/Pages/Altiverb/

There's a what's new page on there


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 8, 2011)

OK, based on the new features and upgrade price, I'll skip. If I was a sound designer, I would upgrade.


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## re-peat (Dec 9, 2011)

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## Daryl (Dec 9, 2011)

re-peat @ Fri Dec 09 said:


> I've installed the upgrade and it's actually pretty impressive (and it definitely more than justifies the new version number.)
> Very intuitive and intelligently re-designed new interface (which is a less superficial change than it may seem), all the controls in the right place (and none too few or too many), a wholly satisfying and extremely clever browser (unlike QL Spaces which, in my opinion, has one of the worst and most discouraging browsers ever, for a reverb unit), and excellent new features such as the algorithmic 'brightness' layer and the new built-in reverb modulation, both of which can take the power of Altiverb to new heights, widths and depths. (Seriously, these two new additions *do* make a difference.)
> Stage-positioning works wonderfully and is entirely convincing (if, and this is important, used with IR's that lend themselves to this approach) and the sound of the plug-in is convolution at its very best.
> In short: my faith in convolution reverbs has been completely restored with this new version of Altiverb. Brilliant update.
> ...


The only thing that is "new" to me, would be if the stage positioning works well. Did you think AV6 worked well in this regard? Is AV7 better? All the rest I already have in VSL, and to my ears the VSL reverb is better sounding than AV6, for quite a few reasons.

D


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## jamwerks (Dec 9, 2011)

Saw the price, almost as much as MIR Pro ! >8o


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## Daryl (Dec 9, 2011)

jamwerks @ Fri Dec 09 said:


> Saw the price, almost as much as MIR Pro ! >8o


It's way more expensive than MIR Pro. Remember, MIR is a surround mixing solution, so you have to compare the price with the surround version of Altiverb. Even taking into account that you have to buy VE Pro 5 for MIR Pro, it is still cheaper than Altiverb.

D


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## MichaelL (Dec 9, 2011)

Bought Altiverb in 2010, so Altiverb 7 is a FREE upgrade for me.

No complaints here.


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## re-peat (Dec 9, 2011)

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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 9, 2011)

Since EW makes a competitive product I will not comment publicly on Alitverb 7. I will say, however, that Piet is a guy with very strong opinions that he has great confidence in and he expresses them strongly.

It does not necessarily make him right.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 9, 2011)

Jay,

This thread is not about Piet. Please focus on the subject.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 9, 2011)

PS: I hope you realize that what you just posted about Piet could be said about, oh, 500 members here.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 9, 2011)

PPS: :wink: If you guys start a pissing fight, this thread gets locked.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 9, 2011)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Fri Dec 09 said:


> PPS: :wink: If you guys start a pissing fight, this thread gets locked.



No problem. He took what I deem to be an unnecessary shot IMHO at an EW product that I love, so I just made my point and I am done with it.


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## jamwerks (Dec 9, 2011)

These products of course aim for as wide user base as possible. That said, seems AV7 will really interest all the post houses, many of whom are still using AV6. For us VI users, it really comes down to the quality of the IR's, and the sweetness of the new reverb tail.

And with libraries such as HS, HB (and soon HWWW!), stage positioning is less important than before.

A shootout between this, Spaces, and the VSL stuff would be interesting.


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## Daryl (Dec 9, 2011)

re-peat @ Fri Dec 09 said:


> Daryl @ Fri Dec 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Did you think AV6 worked well in this regard? Is AV7 better?
> ...


You could be quite right. Of course, you could also be guilty of knowing nothing and having cloth ears to boot. :wink: 

So to give you a bit of assurance, the issues I find are also corroborated by the people who engineer for me. I am not so arrogant that I think I'm a first class engineer, so always hire a professional. If they hear it (and in some cases point it out to me) then it is an issue, as far as I'm concerned.

Oh, and by the way we never use Todd AO, because those IRs have way too many problems, when compared with a lot of the other equally good sounding IRs in Altiverb.

Look, I'm really happy that you like it, but don't assume that people who don't agree with you are ignorant. They may be, but then again, they may just have better ears than you do.

D


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## Daryl (Dec 9, 2011)

jamwerks @ Fri Dec 09 said:


> These products of course aim for as wide user base as possible. That said, seems AV7 will really interest all the post houses, many of whom are still using AV6. For us VI users, it really comes down to the quality of the IR's, and the sweetness of the new reverb tail.
> 
> And with libraries such as HS, HB (and soon HWWW!), stage positioning is less important than before.
> 
> A shootout between this, Spaces, and the VSL stuff would be interesting.


Except that I don't think that Spaces aims for the same market, so it wouldn't really be a fair comparison.

D


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## gsilbers (Dec 9, 2011)

hmm.. just noticed.. 

to bad audioease did not release altiverb with algorithmic reverb as they said they would 2 yrs ago. (i think its even on the old namm video)
but i could be wrong


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## Gerd Kaeding (Dec 9, 2011)

gsilbers @ Fri Dec 09 said:


> hmm.. just noticed..
> 
> to bad audioease did not release altiverb with algorithmic reverb as they said they would 2 yrs ago. (i think its even on the old namm video)
> but i could be wrong



Hi ,
this algorithmic synthetic Reverb is hidden behind the Controller "Brightness" .

http://youtu.be/EpzNgP8uThs?t=8m43s


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## re-peat (Dec 10, 2011)

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## Daryl (Dec 10, 2011)

re-peat @ Sat Dec 10 said:


> Daryl @ Fri Dec 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Of course, you could also be guilty of knowing nothing and having cloth ears to boot.
> ...


Hang on a minute. You mean "cheap shots" like suggesting that anyone who doesn't agree with you is guilty of being too lazy to learn to use the software properly? Just for a minute get off your high horse and read what you wrote, but substitute the opposite opinion to yours. Do you not think that you were being a trifle dismissive and arrogant? As for imaginary engineers, I just wish their invoices were imaginary. :lol: 

D


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## re-peat (Dec 10, 2011)

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## Daryl (Dec 10, 2011)

I don't think that anyone has been disrespectful about Altiverb. I have used it for the past 6 years (or whenever it became available for Windows), and I think it's a great tool. All I said was that I didn't think that the stage positioning worked very well, and that I currently had better options. I don't think that this is disrespectful. I think it's honest.

There is no point in anyone posting something that they think sounds better, because better is an opinion, and you have made yours abundantly clear.

As far as audio examples of the stereo imaging problem, if I have time I'll try to set something up. However, it is rather unpredictable, so I'll have to try to remember what caused it, in order to find a good example.

D


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## re-peat (Dec 10, 2011)

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## careyford (Dec 10, 2011)

So , the bottom line is... if you're interested in AV or already using it (as I do), then a new version is coming out. If you don't use it and aren't interested, there are some other good options out there and this thread probably won't affect you. 

Thanks! I go what I needed. :D

Richard


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 10, 2011)

re-peat @ Sat Dec 10 said:


> Daryl,
> 
> I would also love to hear an example — Jay? — where Spaces makes things sound better in a way that Altiverb can’t. Because, again, I don’t believe that it can. No mock-up (or any other type of recorded audio for that matter) will ever sound even a fraction better because it uses Spaces rather than Altiverb. Impossible, as far as I’m concerned. And if anyone disagrees, again: I’d love to hear it proven.



First of all, practically nobody here is going to believe that I say what I say about Spaces vs Altiverb as being what I honestly believe, which it is, because I have this gig with EW. So I have pledged not to get into this kind of discussion of competitor's products.

Secondly, it is not part of my job to sell Spaces.

Thirdly, I have no interest in proving anything to anyone other than my clients.

If anyone is interested in my experiences and conclusions regarding Altiverb and Spaces, they can PM or email me.


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## rayinstirling (Dec 10, 2011)

I did this this morning with Altiverb 6 positioning in the Mechanics Hall

DEVOLVE

Maybe a bit too wet :lol:


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## Daryl (Dec 10, 2011)

re-peat @ Sat Dec 10 said:


> You can’t deny that the overal tone in this thread, save for a few isolated voices, is one of barely withheld disdain: “Altiverb is passé, on to newer and better things” or “Altiverb may still be useful for post-production duties, but surely, not for the sophisticated art of creating virtual spaces around virtual instruments.” No? And the way in which the new version is promptly being dismissed, is not exactly free of narrow-minded, disparaging bias either, if you ask me.


I don't read any of what has been written as disdain, barely withheld, or otherwise. I see disappointment and a touch of frustration. There is nothing wrong with saying that AV7 was such a long time coming that some people have already moved on. The fact that there is no Windows version available means that some of us don't even have the option of AV7.

I also don't see any particular bias against Altiverb, narrow minded, or not. I have a licence in both my studios, so I can hardly be biased against it. However the fact that you don't believe that any other convolution reverb could make a difference could also be classed as narrow minded, so again I think it all depends on which direction you are looking from.

D


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## dannthr (Dec 10, 2011)

I have Altiverb 6 and Spaces both, I qualify for Altiverb 7's free update, but alas I do not have a mac.

I noticed that Altiverb 7 is mostly a software upgrade.

This is my feeling, if I can put it in an objective comparison:

Altiverb and Spaces have different goals in mind.

Altiverb has probably the broadest most varied library of impulse responses of any program I've ever used. In a way, the library is a living library that is graciously and consistently updated by AudioEase's staff as well as plenty of user contributions as certain versions of Altiverb will let you create your own impulse responses.

With that said, there is a great deal of inconsistency in the signal chain, and the impulse sound source used to create those impulses resulting in a reverb quality that is also broad and varied (naturally, it's due to the mere fact that the same team/people are not making all of the impulses).

That is to say, to put it lightly, Altiverb's impulses tend to (not always but tend to) be fairly colored/coloring. This is not always desireable in the case of music production, though it can seriously have its uses, especially, I believe, in Post-Production and Sound Design.

Altiverb's algorithmic positioning is ... okay at best and terrible at worst. Although, I believe there are very few if any good algorithmic room positioning plug-ins on the market--it's just not where Altiverb shines.

Moreover, whether it's an issue with navigating Altiverb's broad selection of impulse spaces (as AudioEase seems to think) or if it's an issue of navigating Altiverb's vast variety of quality, I find myself using maybe 3 different spaces over and over again (I know this is personally the case, and I've spoken to many friends who feel the same way).

Because at the end of the day, for music, and more specifically, for orchestral music production and mixing, I really just need a fabulous reverb.

Enter Spaces. Spaces is about as limited as you can get for a convolution reverb. When it first released (when I first got it) your interface was as sophisticated as Wet/Dry On/Off. There's no algorithmic room positioning (I use another plugin for that), there's no special browser, there's no crazy or super interesting impulses like, I can't make my clarinet sound like it's coming from a clothes dryer or the inside of a shoebox, I can't make my trumpet sound like it's in the cockpit of a Beoing 747. With a recent update, you can add HPF and LPF to your response, but it's very limited, you can't EQ the late or early reflections individually, you can't separate those reflections at all, you can control Predelay but that's about as sophisticated as it gets.

So what's the big deal? For me, the quality. Spaces has consistently the most transparent impulses I have ever heard from any convolution impulse library, ever. Their true stereo impulses give depth with no sacrifice to clarity. Many times I am SHOCKED at how clear my instruments sound through 100% wet. This, I attribute to the dedication of Nick Phoenix's crew, frankly, in not only providing a top-notch recording chain for the impulses, but also informing us which microphones, which pre-amps, which AD converters, etc. 

I think Altiverb is great, we'll see if they upgraded the room-positioning algorithm, but I doubt it. There are frustrating things about Altiverb 6, specifically, and I definitely don't use it anymore because it can be such a frustrating plugin when it comes to stability and compatability. Hopefully all of that is fixed in 7--at least I expect it to be. It's also been a long wait for 7. When Altiverb can not give a date for a release, I don't hold my breath.

Aside from that, Arim has be GREAT to work with when dealing with customer service issues--very accomodating.

My feeling is this, Altiverb, like Speakerphone, is almost more a plugin chain, designed to appeal to as many people as possible giving the user maximum control over the sound--which is really good--but there just aren't enough appealing and clear sounding impulses to really get my blood pumping and the positioning algorithm is not good, in my opinion.

Anyway, this all boils down to Apples and Oranges--they're different programs with totally different goals, but not so different that you need to get both.

You just have to set your priorities.

I already have a great room placement plugin, personally, so I don't really use Alti anymore. And Spaces really just sounds spectacular, even though it's almost over simplified.

But there isn't anything that delivers what Altiverb can for Sound Designers and Post Production Mixers--hands down, it's the best.


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## re-peat (Dec 10, 2011)

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## germancomponist (Dec 10, 2011)

Thls for the example!

For radio productions / trailers / spots, Altiverb was and is great.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Feb 29, 2012)

This morning, I saw that there was a new IR set from Audioease, a pyramid! Well, I just don't have that in my arsenal, so I hoped over, only to find out that it's Altiverb 7 compatible only. I was not planning to upgrade to 7, since many of the new features are of little use to me, and now I find out that in order to continue to access future IRs from Audioease, I have to fork over more than 200 $. Not cool. :evil:


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## ThomasL (Feb 29, 2012)

I hear you Ned... 

However, the interface alone (yeah, and 64-bit) is worth it in my opinion...

And the impulse is amazing


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## germancomponist (Feb 29, 2012)

A pyramid? 

How does music sound, played in a pyramid? I never had the chance to listen to... .


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## chimuelo (Feb 29, 2012)

Excellent, I was looking for an excuse to spend money and I know that with most Winsows/Mac Reverbs a new number means mo' money, less button pushes,........................ the usual M$/Apple revenue tactics.
Can't wait to hear the difference in x64, I'm sure it's stunning.... :lol:


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## jleckie (Feb 29, 2012)

germancomponist @ Wed Feb 29 said:


> A pyramid?
> 
> How does music sound, played in a pyramid? I never had the chance to listen to... .



Forget the music. Run your dialog thru Altiverbs new Pyramid IR and out comes Arabic. Rather cool if you ask me....


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## quantum7 (Feb 29, 2012)

dannthr @ Sat Dec 10 said:


> I have Altiverb 6 and Spaces both, I qualify for Altiverb 7's free update, but alas I do not have a mac.
> 
> I noticed that Altiverb 7 is mostly a software upgrade.
> 
> ...



I would have to agree with most everything you said. I am also a former Altiverb user, but haven't touched it since I acquired Spaces. Spaces has become my go to reverb now. Yeah, sometimes I wish I could tweak it like Altiverb, but I don't mind the sacrifice since Spaces sounds better than Altiverb to my ears.


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