# Does this suck as bad as I think...?



## kid-surf (Oct 25, 2006)

---EDIT---


I thought of something else that I like WAY better. But thanks for the ears guys! (I just don't want to keep getting feedback on a cue I dumped already. :mrgreen: )


*HERE'S WHERE I'M AT NOW*



> "I made the right move to ditch that bitch...
> 
> I thought of something MUCH better. Something that lends itself to a lot thicker/cleaner orchestration. With a vibe that is plain cooler. And the mix will sound better (work) because of it.
> 
> ...






Again thanks for the ears..... and second perspective!


----------



## sbkp (Oct 25, 2006)

I guess that all depends... How bad do you think it sucks?


----------



## kid-surf (Oct 25, 2006)

Well, It's about a 5 out of 10 for me. It's just kinda "there" for me.... 

I'm not sure there's anything interesting about it. I don't listen to it and think "oh, killer!".


----------



## Patrick de Caumette (Oct 25, 2006)

Why post it if you don't like it?

It certainly quotes the Batman theme note for note if that's what you were trying to get close to...


----------



## kid-surf (Oct 25, 2006)

Cause maybe I'm too close to it to see any redeeming qualities, so I felt like asking others here if it sucked as bad as I think. If 'most' people thought it was lame... well then, it probably is lame. Ya know? I'm dead on the fence with it. So, another point of view is more than I've got. And considering music is mostly about perception... well. Besides, why just post something you're in love with? I already know why I like what I like....

Really, note for note Batman? Interesting, this is for Horror. So nope, not what I was supposed to get close to. I don't own nor have I heard any Batman themes that I am aware of, save for the time I saw the first film 20 years ago. So, I'll have to check that out... you're talking about what Elfman did, yes?

(I have been meaning to get some Elfman anyway because I don't have any of his scores. Yet, I relate to him on a personal level (Choc0 posted an interview). Besides Choc0 told me to get some!!!) 


I will be amazed if it's the same notes, or even "close".......... amazed. (then I'll buy a lottery ticket)



Anyway........................

There's three ways to hear a piece of music.


1) I like it

2) I'm indifferent

3) I don't like it


Each of those tells one more about how their music is perceived by others. And considering we don't write entirely for ourselves I think it's good to get a second opinion if you are ambiguous. Which I am about this. Otherwise I wouldn't ask. And usually don't...... but you guys are smarter than me. Ya know....


----------



## tobyond (Oct 25, 2006)

It's not to bad man, if it's what they want then that's the main thing. Production is good. Doesn't sound like horror to me, but then again I don't watch horror movies so what do I know.


----------



## kid-surf (Oct 25, 2006)

Hmmmm...

After listening to the 30 second clip on iTunes I don't get where the comparison is coming from (deeper in the cue?). You're talking the Batman "theme", right? Unless it goes into something else I'm pretty surprised you'd compare it to that and say it's note for note....


You thinking of another cue? Another film?

I'm not hearing it.


----------



## sbkp (Oct 25, 2006)

I don't think it sucks at all. Standing on its own, it doesn't particularly do anything for me -- what's the context where the cue will be used? Main title? Underscore? Love scene? 

The string portamentos sound a little weird to me.

The Batman theme is 1 2 b3 b6 5 #4 -- the first five notes appear in your piece about halfway through in the violins. I don't think Elfman invented that one, so you're safe. And anyway, you've got half-note half-note half-note half-note, and I think the Batman theme is half quarter quarter whole.


----------



## kid-surf (Oct 25, 2006)

tobyond @ Wed Oct 25 said:


> It's not to bad man, if it's what they want then that's the main thing. Production is good. Doesn't sound like horror to me, but then again I don't watch horror movies so what do I know.




Haha...

Well, it's not what I'd consider 'cool/scary' horror. More so "house on the hill" type horror (you know how they all have that same house on the hill.  ). Which for me isn't all that scary. The music ends up playing sort of "music box/darker-ish" -vs- "the depths of brutal hell".  (I like the latter sound much better) 

So that's what is intended here and maybe why I'm ambiguous.... The temp cue is definitely horror and the vibe feels very similar to what I did (without being the same notes, or overly close). That's partly why I'm ambiguous. I just don't find that stuff scary.... I have cues that are way more scary in general. 

So I guess my prob is that I don't know if it's that I don't relate to this type of cue for horror, or that it's just a plain boring cue regardless.

Thanks for the thought... helps.


----------



## kid-surf (Oct 25, 2006)

sbkp --- Yeah same for me. It doesn't do anything for me so that = sucks. (in my book) :D

It's for underscore... 

*"The string portamentos sound a little weird to me." *

Same here... :razz: They're too slow. Not sure I care cause the piece is suck'n for me. I may scrap it and ignore the temp (or well, send them both so they can trash this). If this piece leaves most people luke warm, that's not good. Right. 

I guess our gut is always right......... I hate writing to a temp. I don't believe the best music can be had that way. (venting)

*"The Batman theme is 1 2 b3 b6 5 #4 -- the first five notes appear in your piece about halfway through in the violins. I don't think Elfman invented that one, so you're safe. And anyway, you've got half-note half-note half-note half-note, and I think the Batman theme is half quarter quarter whole."*

Interesting... I'll have to download that and give a better listen.

Makes me wonder how many times someone has come up with the exact same thing and found out later that it was the same, never having heard the other piece.


----------



## kid-surf (Oct 26, 2006)

Toby --- thanks man!


Haha...! Sounds like a plan! :D

Well, I don't know what the temp track is from? All I know is that it's better than what I wrote, and that's what worries me. :D 

Which is why I feel like dumping this cue and doing "my" version.... I think that's what I'll end up doing. 

Idunno........... maybe I should sleep on it. I don't seem to be getting anywhere in my brain. :D


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Oct 26, 2006)

Regarding temp music being better... well I often write music to things temp treacked with Hans Zimme, John Williams, James Horner, James Newton Howard etc... If I were to ditch a track everytime the temp was better I would make no money :D

However I do agree that you need to be your own hardest critic. 

What would I do? hmm... Do you have chamber strings? You say you are going for a smaller sound... Anyway what I dont like is the timbre, the volume, and the portamento (its too much, too often). The whole string line just sounds a bit out of place to me. Like when I hear it i'm like "is it supposed to sound like that" :D I guess thats the best way I can describe it. 

Maybe its orchestrated to simple. No counter melody to speak of etc... I dunno - all this also depends on the context. Having it "over-aranged" might not work with what your trying to acheive.


----------



## kid-surf (Oct 26, 2006)

RE Temp -- Yeah I hear you. Those guys are getting paid the big dollars for a reason. Which is why I don't like temps. It's like, "Mr. Director, if you deserved music that good in the first place then you wouldn't be working with a budget this low... you don't really deserve music that good. Not yet".

Don't tell any director I said that though.... :D

Yeah, I have Chamber Strings. I think it'll be a little too small.

Yeah I hear you about the string line. It's really being sort of a pain for me. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to achieve what I hear in my head. Yes, in part due to in not needing to be "over arranged". Makes it stand out more.

I think I'm going to have to edit a line together so I can crossfade the up/down etc and get porta when I want and then legato with tight transitions. 

I hear you, it just sounds "weird".


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 26, 2006)

Well.. the cue is OK, but that cello portamento sounds awful. And the mix makes it a bit tiresome to listen to, it's rather hard on your ears for the first 1:30. But that can be fixed


----------



## kid-surf (Oct 26, 2006)

Thanks...

Yeah, I agree. Well, I think it's best to just trash it, I don't think it's worth trying to fix it. Now that I've rested my ears and listened again It's just sucking for me all the way around. My brain made me exaggerate the frequencies to try and make it more interesting (exciting than it is, or could be) _because_ I don't like it.

I'm over it..........


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Oct 26, 2006)

Be sure to post the track you do instead then


----------



## PaulR (Oct 26, 2006)

Sean Beeson @ Thu Oct 26 said:


> If you trash this piece, then you might have to trash half of your music, because it really does not stink that bad.



:lol: :lol: :lol: 

I can't stop laughing. Don't embroider it - give it to him straight!!


----------



## kid-surf (Oct 26, 2006)

:mrgreen: 


Well, I hear what you're saying Sean......... :lol: J/K

I can see where people might feel this is in line with the rest of my stuff, but I can only describe it this way: For me this "feels" like something I can't stand behind.... like I'm going to be chasing my tail trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Even if I fixed it I still don't think I'd like it.

I'm trying to raise my game substantially and this feels like a step backwards. The responses here sorta confirmed what my gut was telling me. So I appreciate that. Seriously!

I have a couple new ideas that are 'original' (not trying to get close to any temp)... ones I think are much better. Initial ideas that make me feel something where this didn't.


My goal for this next year is to try and only hand over music I think is pretty cool...


----------



## kid-surf (Oct 26, 2006)

Oh... forgot to say:

Seriously, i do plan on trashing a bunch of music. I have older stuff I'm selling myself with now right along side newer stuff that I like a whole lot better. So in the down time I'm writing stuff I think is better than this older stuff. Yet, I'm sure one day the stuff I think is pretty cool now will get trashed too. The goal is to always get better.

Trashed = Put out of sight. Not deleted.


----------



## kid-surf (Oct 26, 2006)

I made the right move to ditch that bitch...

I thought of something MUCH better. Something that lends itself to a lot thicker/cleaner orchestration. With a vibe that is plain cooler. And the mix will sound better (work) because of it.

Just say'n.... 

I guess I'm just not very good at ripping off cues, I seem to never like them, and they never seem to be that good. I can think of stuff that works better (than the rip off) if I just ignore it and do what works to 'me'.


----------



## Mike Greene (Oct 26, 2006)

I'm late to the party, but I like this piece. I played it on the big speakers, so you got helped there. Love the arrangement.

As mentioned, the melody is a little close to Batman, though. Probably not sueable (if they'd even care), but it might paint you as a ripoff guy. I'd change that, but otherwise I like this a lot. Not good enough to put MY name on it, but for you, absolutely! :mrgreen: 

Seriously, I'd just change the melody and happily put my name on it.  

- Mike Greene


----------



## synthetic (Oct 26, 2006)

I liked the arrangement and mix, although it's a but wet for my taste (really long reverb decay). I don't think it's a total rip of Batman like some of the other posters. I think the portamento Cellos need work about 25% in, but otherwise I thought it was convincing.


----------



## kid-surf (Oct 26, 2006)

Hey thanks for the spin guys! Much appreciated, but-------> (see: below :D )

Yeah, any likeness to the Batman theme was purely coincidental. I don't know that piece of music. Hopefully the new one doesn't have similar notes to something else. :lol: 

But --- in a way I like the idea of me thinking of the same notes as Elfman... maybe there's hope for me yet.... :D



kid-surf @ Thu Oct 26 said:


> I made the right move to ditch that bitch...
> 
> I thought of something MUCH better. Something that lends itself to a lot thicker/cleaner orchestration. With a vibe that is plain cooler. And the mix will sound better (work) because of it.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sean Beeson (Oct 27, 2006)

kid-surf @ Thu Oct 26 said:


> :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> Well, I hear what you're saying Sean......... :lol: J/K
> ...



I can relate to what you are saying exactly. Some pieces inspire you to write, and the piece creates itself, and others....well. I have a special folder for them 

As for the Batman line, I heard it, but unless I was listening for it, I would have missed it completely.


----------



## Daryl (Oct 27, 2006)

kid-surf @ Fri Oct 27 said:


> But --- in a way I like the idea of me thinking of the same notes as Elfman... maybe there's hope for me yet.... :D


It wasn't exactly original when Elfman ripped it off in the first place. :mrgreen: 

D


----------



## D.J. (Oct 27, 2006)

Ripped it off from where exactly?

I ask becasue choco posted a good show about film themes and underscore stolen from concert repertoire. I loved it and would like to know more.


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Oct 27, 2006)

D.J. @ Fri Oct 27 said:


> Ripped it off from where exactly?
> 
> I ask becasue choco posted a good show about film themes and underscore stolen from concert repertoire. I loved it and would like to know more.



Yeah, I felt the same way. It was a major bummer at the end of the show where they said there there would be no part 2 :(


----------



## kid-surf (Oct 27, 2006)

Sean -- yes exactly! I have the same folder for that cue. (and a few others) :D


Daryl -- I'm curious as well.


David -- I really enjoyed your work on Memento and The Prestige.... 


Well, I feel like there's only so many ways to string notes together. Since this is basically a mathematic language I feel that the best music has all already been written, so to speak. By that I mean that I feel it exists out there in space somewhere waiting for someone to tap into it (since we've all got the same notes right there in front of us at all times).

So, I think there will be times people think of the same thing completely by coincidence. And may get accused/suspected of ripping something off when it wasn't the case.


----------



## kid-surf (Oct 27, 2006)

Btw-- I'm interested to see that piece Choc0 posted, sounds interesting....


----------



## D.J. (Oct 27, 2006)

Christian Marcussen @ Fri Oct 27 said:


> [quote="D.J. @ Fri Oct
> 
> Yeah, I felt the same way. It was a major bummer at the end of the show where they said there there would be no part 2 :(




That's exactly what I said! We should let them 'em know. Pretty educational show.



Kid-
''So, I think there will be times people think of the same thing completely by coincidence. And may get accused/suspected of ripping something off when it wasn't the case.''

So true. My brother is a comic....and this happens all the time. Then the guys duke it our for ownership. 
Also, I was once the music director for a showcase with Sony. They gave us the grand tour and shmoozed the potential new act we were playing for. I got a schooling from the vice president and their legal division pending this new act signing with them. These lawyers scour the earth for any and all potential lawsuits due to acts with similar names, concepts, song titles....anything at all.... and then the suits ask the act how willing they are to change if necessary. 
The act typically says 'not at all' and then the V.P. and his team sweat it out and fight with legal to meet the artists's wishes against counsel's advise. It was an eye opener and showed that companies deal with this kind of 'creative coincidence' all the time. 


[BTW : In case someone did not get Kid's joke 
I'm not David Julyan but David Julien. So I did not score Momento 
( but I did give it two thumbs up) :wink: ]


----------

