# Orchestral Positioning & Depth with Multiple Libraries



## Cosimo (Jan 10, 2016)

*Greetings*! Long-time lurker and relatively new member here, and this be my first thread. Be gentle.

I recently purchased *Spitfire Audio*'s *BML Mural Symphonic Strings* and was wondering how any of you (who have it) would go about mixing with it for depth and position?

I'm currently composing a score for a video game and I've always had a little trouble wrapping my head around creating true depth in an orchestra. (I used to just opt for the pre-baked rooms sounds of the libraries)

I currently have a project that uses *BML Mural strings*, *Berlin Woodwinds* and *CineBrass* with only the close mics loaded for the driest sound. I then have 6 instances of *Altiverb 6* on 6 different sends using the *Todd-AO IR* set up (3xER, 3xTails for near, mid and far). I'm just finding it difficult to pan and position all these libraries to create a more realistic setting with a genuine sense of depth. I preferably would like to use the room sound of the *Todd-AO IR* instead of mixing a bunch of different rooms that come with each library - hence using all the dry mics.

I've also just got my hands on *VirtualSoundStage 2*; but I'm yet to use it 'effectively' with any of these libraries as their instruments are already panned in their typical orchestral seating arrangement, but some a bit too weakly panned if you get me. Any help here would also be appreciated.

Are there any alternate methods I could use with *Altiverb* to create depth/good positioning?

Thanks, I hope I worded this acceptably.


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## Hannes (Jan 10, 2016)

Have you tried the positioning feature of Altiverb? Instead of 3 ER Altiverb instances, you could use one instance of Altiverb as an insert effect for each instrument and try the positioning feature.
There are also mono to stereo (for single instruments) and stereo to stereo (for sections) settings possible.

But I think you could also get a nice sound by not using any additional ERs... Especially the BWWs already sound great in an orchestral setting when you only use far mics and a bit of tail; but that's a matter of taste I guess


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## Black Light Recordings (Jan 10, 2016)

Hi Cosmo.
You really don't need that much verb. Especially with the the libraries you are using. Spitfire is the wettest and also the most flexible with all the mic positions so start there. Get your piece written first then balance out your strings with no additional reverb. Next to the woodwinds. Balance them out as a section first then add them to the strings. Tweak the woodwinds section (only) with slight ER and tail to sit well with the strings. You should just need a little. All of the these libraries have the instruments panned to position so there is no need to mess with that here. Next to Cinebrass. The Sony stage sound of Cinebrass is considerably brighter and more in your face than Spitfire so you may need some EQ here along with slight ER and tail additions. This will be the hardest part. A little compression on the master buss to glue them all together with a subtle addition of some extra reverb tail (a simple digital plate will do just fine here) and you've got a foundation. From there, you are teaking for your own personal touches. 

Good Luck.
g


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## Silence-is-Golden (Jan 10, 2016)

I once asked a similar thing, and you should also search a bit on this site what's already been considered, because f.e. Carles ( member) has an interesting approach regarding er's. Btw with orchestral positioning there are different views whether you will want er's in your mix or not.

Since you have a project on the go, and seeing the libraries you work with you are not a beginner I presume.

The various considerations indicate: there are so many ways to go about it that you need to start somewhere with a choice to gradually make it work. ( thats helpful eh?)

Have you done some template balancing for example? That's a good process to keep going ( I am still learning and working on it myself)

Another thing that I have experienced is that using SA Mural within VSS2 drains life out of it. So I don't use it in VSS2.
Also I draw the er's from VSS almost out and use the positioning mainly.

Ircam Spat ( if you can afford it and your CPU can handle it) is apperently a better choice. Or B2 I hear many good noises from.

If I would suggest to you an approach with my current knowledge and experience, use Mural as it is, BWW in VSS2 ( and you may consider using a mono instead of stereo track for each instrument) and most likely Cinebrass in VSS2.
(But I have no experience with Cinebrass.)

And eventually overal a blending reverb(s) of your choice.
Also in there one useful way is: reverb 1--> convolution then into reverb 2 --> algorhythmic.

You will have fun with the different views on all this, and eventually you will find your own way in it. But experiments and a lot of work and patience might get you there.

Good luck!


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