# The greatest of all time



## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

I didn't find a thread about this, so here goes. Who's the greatest film composer of all time? I will not tolerate answers like Alexandre Display (alright, fine, I will). Also, what's your favorite soundtrack for a movie, game, or TV show?


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## doctoremmet (Dec 6, 2022)

Bernard Herrmann. Entire oeuvre is fantastic. His influence is huge.

Favourite soundtrack: North by Northwest

[of course this is entirely personal and subjective]


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## tmhuud (Dec 6, 2022)

Oh.. I dont know. I guess maybe Aaron Copland and that Display guy.


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## AudioLoco (Dec 6, 2022)

No thread because not much debate around as JW is obviously the GOAT

(of course this is the only truth agreed upon by all the gods and is not subjective)


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

AudioLoco said:


> No thread because not much debate around as JW is obviously the GOAT
> 
> (of course this is the only truth agreed upon by all the gods and is not subjective)


Of course it's not like music is subjective! How absurd!


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

Alright, here I go. Michael Giacchino is better than John Williams. Look at Rogue One. The soundtrack was undeniably Williamsesque, more so than Solo. And then Far From Home, Mysterio's Theme. John Williams can't do that! Mama's Got A Brand New Hammer, the piece from Love and Thunder (hated that movie). It had guitar, synth, drums, and epic orchestra. John Williams can't do that! The closest he's gotten to that would be Setting The Trap. And c'mon, the names for Giacchino's pieces are way better.


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## AudioLoco (Dec 6, 2022)

Chi said:


> Alright, here I go. Michael Giacchino is better than John Williams. Look at Rogue One. The soundtrack was undeniably Williamsesque, more so than Solo. And then Far From Home, Mysterio's Theme. John Williams can't do that! Mama's Got A Brand New Hammer, the piece from Love and Thunder (hated that movie). It had guitar, synth, drums, and epic orchestra. John Williams can't do that! The closest he's gotten to that would be Setting The Trap. And c'mon, the names for Giacchino's pieces are way better.


Watch out for lightnings, asteroids and especially falling pianos when you go out there...
Gods angry


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

AudioLoco said:


> Watch out for lightnings, asteroids and especially falling pianos when you go out there...
> Gods angry


When you say asteroids you must mean the empire strikes back piece The Asteroid Field.


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## L70 (Dec 6, 2022)

Bernard Hermann, no contest. Gyorgyi Ligeti's music in 2001 Space Odyssey mind blowing. The video game score for Cyberpunk 2077 was great. Ryuichi Sakamoto's soundtrack to the documentary film about Jacque Derrida was amazing.


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## nolotrippen (Dec 6, 2022)

L70 said:


> Bernard Hermann, no contest. Gyorgyi Ligeti's music in 2001 Space Odyssey mind blowing. The video game score for Cyberpunk 2077 was great. Ryuichi Sakamoto's soundtrack to the documentary film about Jacque Derrida was amazing.


To be fair, Ligeti didn't score anything for 2001, it's a needle drop (and it's hard to forgive throwing out Alex North's original score).


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## L70 (Dec 6, 2022)

True, and Alex North’s original score may have worked better. Just been on a Ligeti kick lately.


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## nolotrippen (Dec 6, 2022)

GOAT film composers is like picking a GOAT romantic composer. Dvorak, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, yes yes yes.

And I really like Williams, but I love Goldsmith (and Morricone and Barry and Waxman,etc.)


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## L70 (Dec 6, 2022)

Morricone’s Once Upon A Time in America score is one of my favs.


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## Double Helix (Dec 6, 2022)

Depends upon the time of day/position of the Sun & Moon, but I'd put (alphabetically) Goldsmith, Herrmann, Horner, Morricone & Williams in my top five


. . . but it depends upon the film & context, no? I love _The Natural_, so Randy Newman gets honorable mention; and _Sophie's Choice_, so (the rarely mentioned) Marvin Hamlisch deserves a spot on my list


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## L70 (Dec 6, 2022)

Double Helix said:


> Depends upon the time of day/position of the Sun & Moon, but I'd put (alphabetically) Goldsmith, Herrmann, Horner, Morricone & Williams in my top five
> 
> 
> . . . but it depends upon the film & context, no? I love _The Natural_, so Randy Newman gets honorable mention; and _Sophie's Choice_, so (the rarely mentioned) Marvin Hamlisch deserves a spot on my list


Your choices remind me of how much I love The Deer Hunter soundtrack by Stanley Myers.


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## Loïc D (Dec 6, 2022)

Alexandre Display 73"
He’s full of good resolutions and he’s looking superb on a (conductor) stand.


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

Loïc D said:


> Alexandre Display 73"
> He’s full of good resolutions and he’s looking superb on a (conductor) stand.


Great for watching the last few HP movies and the imitation game


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## tmhuud (Dec 6, 2022)

nolotrippen said:


> GOAT film composers is like picking a GOAT romantic composer. Dvorak, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, yes yes yes.
> 
> And I really like Williams, but I love Goldsmith (and Morricone and Barry and Waxman,etc.)


I like that…. “GOAT”. I hate goats. They scare me. Best composers of all times…hmmm. Perhaps, JG. But…. I can’t decide, so I’ll go(at) with Miklos Rozsa, Bernard Hermann, John Williams, Chris Young, Ennio Morricone, James Bernard, Soji Yamishiro, and that guy on Display…oh never mind I can’t decide.


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## Prockamanisc (Dec 6, 2022)

L70 said:


> Jacque Derrida


My old philosophy teacher saw Derrida speak and said it put him to sleep.


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## L70 (Dec 6, 2022)

When I was at UCLA, I met the dude and thought he was a jerk. The lecture was impenetrable and turgid. Still love the documentary and music to it.


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## Prockamanisc (Dec 6, 2022)

Chi said:


> Alright, here I go. Michael Giacchino is better than John Williams. Look at Rogue One. The soundtrack was undeniably Williamsesque, more so than Solo. And then Far From Home, Mysterio's Theme. John Williams can't do that! Mama's Got A Brand New Hammer, the piece from Love and Thunder (hated that movie). It had guitar, synth, drums, and epic orchestra. John Williams can't do that! The closest he's gotten to that would be Setting The Trap. And c'mon, the names for Giacchino's pieces are way better.


I legitimately cannot tell if you're joking here. Can you please tell me? I can't tell if you're legitimately citing the use of electric guitars and big drums as what makes MG a better composer than JW.

Assuming you're joking: Haha, that's hilarious.

Assuming you're serious: What? JW is an inferior composer because he doesn't use things that go boom? JW's control over music, emotion, and the medium is unparalleled. To further my argument as to why JW is a better composer, I present *gestures to JW's entire ouvre*.


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## Prockamanisc (Dec 6, 2022)

L70 said:


> When I was at UCLA, I met the dude and thought he was a jerk. The lecture was impenetrable and turgid. Still love the documentary and music to it.


Haha, a French philosopher who was a jerk? I'm shocked! But yeah, that's why my teacher fell asleep, he said he couldn't follow any of it...and that's when he was going for his PhD. I'll definitely check out the doc, though!


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

Prockamanisc said:


> I legitimately cannot tell if you're joking here. Can you please tell me? I can't tell if you're legitimately citing the use of electric guitars and big drums as what makes MG a better composer than JW.
> 
> Assuming you're joking: Haha, that's hilarious.
> 
> Assuming you're serious: What? JW is an inferior composer because he doesn't use things that go boom? JW's control over music, emotion, and the medium is unparalleled. To further my argument as to why JW is a better composer, I present *gestures to JW's entire ouvre*.


I don't quite think you grasped my point. Williams created big, lush scores and iconic fanfares. MG also did that. Listen to the Medal of Honor soundtrack. It's incredible. Oh, speaking of incredible, listen to the incredibles soundtrack. But I digress. Williams and Giacchino both have scores of that type to lay to their names, but Giacchino is much more versatile. I'm citing the use of modern elements to show that while MG can write the more classical type scores that JW did, (and many of his scores are like that) he also can incorporate modern elements as well without overwhelming it with synth and techno (like Goransson, for jnstance). He's amazing, yes, but he's also very well-rounded. Arachnoverture. Need I say more?


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## AceAudioHQ (Dec 6, 2022)

I like Morricone and Silvestri best, but my favorite soundtrack is from The Beach which has the score by Angelo Badalamenti complemented by electronic music songs by Faithless, William Orbit and a bunch of others

Oh, and I do love many vangelis soundtracks, missing, 1492, blade runner, chariots of fire. The blade runner is one of the few records where I don’t have to skip any songs


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## L70 (Dec 6, 2022)

Yeah, that was in the early 90s when his stuff was all the rage. It was interesting to see all the staff and students pretending they knew what he was talking about. Academia can be so Hollywood. The doc is ok but it's funny because you can see how he hated being filmed and followed around. The soundtrack is a kind of an electronic underscore but it works. And they got Ryuichi Sakamoto to do it for free or really cheap.


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## Pop Corn (Dec 6, 2022)

There's not a best. There can't possibly be a best in creative fields. That being said, I like a composer that's able to pull gold out of their a** in any genre they're tasked with. I wouldn't hire John Williams to do the Doom soundtrack (although that would be wild), and I wouldn't hire an artist like Trent Reznor to do the original Star Wars movies.

That Display guy is a bit of a chameleon though. He's pretty varied. Respect for that guy (the real one.. )

Anyway it's a silly thread because obviously I'm going to be the best composer as soon as I have a few more string libraries.


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## L70 (Dec 6, 2022)

Yeah, that was in the early 90s when his stuff was all the rage. It was interesting to see all the staff and students pretending they knew what he was talking about. Academia can be so Hollywood. The doc is ok but it's funny because you can see how he hated being filmed and followed around. The soundtrack is a kind of an electronic underscore but it works. And they got Ryuichi Sakamoto to do it for free or really cheap


Pop Corn said:


> There's not a best. There can't possibly be a best in creative fields. That being said, I like a composer that's able to pull gold out of their a** in any genre they're tasked with. I wouldn't hire John Williams to do the Doom soundtrack (although that would be wild), and I wouldn't hire an artist like Trent Reznor to do the original Star Wars movies.
> 
> That Display guy is a bit of a chameleon though. He's pretty varied. Respect for that guy (the real one.. )
> 
> Anyway it's a silly thread because obviously I'm going to be the best composer as soon as I have a few more string libraries.


That's the spirit! I like your swag.


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## Marcus Millfield (Dec 6, 2022)

What's with all the goats?

No best, but do have a fave-of-all-time-up-until-now-at-least: Howard Shore's work on The Lord of the Rings trilogy. For me it's the hight of telling the story through music. Everything works beautifully together and there is not a note just there to have some background music, it all has meaning.


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

Pop Corn said:


> There's not a best. There can't possibly be a best in creative fields. That being said, I like a composer that's able to pull gold out of their a** in any genre they're tasked with. I wouldn't hire John Williams to do the Doom soundtrack (although that would be wild), and I wouldn't hire an artist like Trent Reznor to do the original Star Wars movies.
> 
> That Display guy is a bit of a chameleon though. He's pretty varied. Respect for that guy (the real one.. )
> 
> Anyway it's a silly thread because obviously I'm going to be the best composer as soon as I have a few more string libraries.


Ofc! The only real way to get better at something is to spend more money!


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> What's with all the goats?
> 
> No best, but do have a fave-of-all-time-up-until-now-at-least: Howard Shore's work on The Lord of the Rings trilogy.


That's an absolute classic. And honestly, if he had enough soundtracks of that quality to back it, then he'd have a shot at the throne. As of right now, he's more of a one trick pony. (But that one trick though...)


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## Prockamanisc (Dec 6, 2022)

Chi said:


> I don't quite think you grasped my point. Williams created big, lush scores and iconic fanfares. MG also did that. Listen to the Medal of Honor soundtrack. It's incredible. Oh, speaking of incredible, listen to the incredibles soundtrack. But I digress. Williams and Giacchino both have scores of that type to lay to their names, but Giacchino is much more versatile. I'm citing the use of modern elements to show that while MG can write the more classical type scores that JW did, (and many of his scores are like that) he also can incorporate modern elements as well without overwhelming it with synth and techno (like Goransson, for jnstance). He's amazing, yes, but he's also very well-rounded. Arachnoverture. Need I say more?


JW is extremely versatile. Sure, he's got a big bellcurve where a lot of his works sit, but at the fringes are scores like Catch Me If You Can and Accidental Tourist. Versatile.

I mean, geez, even within Star Wars compare the opening titles with Yub Nub and the Cantina Song. They're so memorable, fun, and fitting with the score and the scene. Versatile.

And there is a wide gap between MG's orchestral chops and JW's orchestral chops. I would not equate "orchestral composer" with "someone who uses orchestral instruments in their music". It's much more nuanced than that. And all love and respect to MG, but JW runs circles around him orchestrally. And that's not meant to denigrate MG, it's to really, really say "JW is THAT GOOD".


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## L70 (Dec 6, 2022)

I'll never forget memorizing that Ewok rap song as a kid. I digress. Yeah trashing JW's skills as a composer and a piano player isn't something I'm not willing to do. Even if it's not always my cup of tea.


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

Prockamanisc said:


> JW is extremely versatile. Sure, he's got a big bellcurve where a lot of his works sit, but at the fringes are scores like Catch Me If You Can and Accidental Tourist. Versatile.
> 
> I mean, geez, even within Star Wars compare the opening titles with Yub Nub and the Cantina Song. They're so memorable, fun, and fitting with the score and the scene. Versatile.
> 
> And there is a wide gap between MG's orchestral chops and JW's orchestral chops. I would not equate "orchestral composer" with "someone who uses orchestral instruments in their music". It's much more nuanced than that. And all love and respect to MG, but JW runs circles around him orchestrally. And that's not meant to denigrate MG, it's to really, really say "JW is THAT GOOD".


"Orchestrally?" Is that to say that his melodies integrate better with an orchestra, or that they're more spread out, or that maybe you like where he puts what parts? Has JW ever written a guitar solo? How about a real drumline? I've read a couple interviews with MG, and he seems to prefer leaning towards classical orchestra. The Batman theme is extremely simple, and yet it is amazingly well orchestrated. The background elements and instrumentation make it extremely catchy and fun to listen to. Also, JW would probably like to forget that the music from Jabba's palace even existed. I would. If you listen to Medal of Honor, then you'll start to wonder if MG didn't inspire Williams! And that was back in the 90's, I think. The last couple Star Treks? The Cars 2 soundtrack is absolutely stellar! Best intro music for any Pixar movie ever. He's amazing.


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## Allston (Dec 6, 2022)

Max Steiner (and yes, I am an old fart)


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

L70 said:


> I'll never forget memorizing that Ewok rap song as a kid. I digress. Yeah trashing JW's skills as a composer and a piano player isn't something I'm not willing to do. Even if it's not always my cup of tea.


Hopefully no one in this forum would dare trash Williams. He also plays trombone.


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## L70 (Dec 6, 2022)

I hear him get trashed a lot on the Classical sub reddit. Not accusing anyone of doing that here. I actually agree with your opinions about Giacchino vs Williams.


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## Prockamanisc (Dec 6, 2022)

Chi said:


> "Orchestrally?"


In the Beethovenian tradition. JW is extremely studied and accomplished in this area. Judging by his work, MG is less so...but then again, JW's been doing it for 90 years, so it's pretty impossible to get more experience than him at this point.

I get that you like MG more than you like JW. But just say that. Don't ask "who is greater?", just ask "who do you like more?".


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## L70 (Dec 6, 2022)

Allston said:


> Max Steiner (and yes, I am an old fart)


When I was in the hospital a few months ago, I was watching the Betty Davis movie Now Voyager. Steiner's music is timeless. I'm an old fart too 😂


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

Prockamanisc said:


> In the Beethovenian tradition. JW is extremely studied and accomplished in this area. Judging by his work, MG is less so...but then again, JW's been doing it for 90 years, so it's pretty impossible to get more experience than him at this point.
> 
> I get that you like MG more than you like JW. But just say that. Don't ask "who is greater?", just ask "who do you like more?".


"Greatest" does happen to be a matter of opinion in this case. I figured that most people would be able to pick up on that. Regardless, Giacchino and Williams both went to Berklee, so they most likely got the same level of instruction. And Giacchino actually got his start by making stop motion animation movies. Then he realized that he liked choosing music for them even better than making them. So he's not only a composer, he's also a director. (Hence Werewolf By Night). Williams began by playing piano. So, while on paper Willaims may have had more musically focused beginnings, as a director MG cam naturally work with the film itself better. As a FILM composer, I think MG surpasses JW. We can have the conversation about orchestral composition separately.


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

L70 said:


> I hear him get trashed a lot on the Classical sub reddit. Not accusing anyone of doing that here. I actually agree with your opinions about Giacchino vs Williams.


That's sad. His music doesn't appeal to a lot of the more trailer/hybrid type music lovers these days. I'm all for Williams! He's probably second after Giacchino for me, and definitely in my top five.


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## The Gost (Dec 6, 2022)

Sorry for the JW fan club... but for the "new film music" I would say Hans Zimmer and Jóhann Jóhannsson.


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

The Gost said:


> Sorry for the JW fan club... but for the "new film music" I would say Hans Zimmer and Jóhann Jóhannsson.


Hans Zimmer is amazing, to be sure. I'll leave it at that so as to spare myself and this group from another huge post.


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## davidson (Dec 6, 2022)

James Horner. Dodgy accent aside, the guy knows how to write a melody.

Best score - Braveheart.


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## jbuhler (Dec 6, 2022)

Allston said:


> Max Steiner (and yes, I am an old fart)


No one did more to establish the basic conventions of film scoring.


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## L70 (Dec 6, 2022)

I think it's just youngsters trying to be edgy. It's surprising even from conservatory students how hot takes spin out of control. Like the Giacchino vs Williams comparison. Being a piano player most of my life, orchestration is a whole other beast. Wish I had studied that more.


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

L70 said:


> I think it's just youngsters trying to be edgy. It's surprising even from conservatory students how hot takes spin out of control. Like the Giacchino vs Williams comparison. Being a piano player most of my life, orchestration is a whole other beast. Wish I had studied that more.


Well, learning piano can help establish the basic foundations of composition, orchestra or otherwise. That's why piano is usually a requirement for any music major.


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## L70 (Dec 6, 2022)

Luckily I've been playing badly for over 40 years


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

L70 said:


> Luckily I've been playing badly for over 40 years


Well, I'll accept that you've been playing for 40 years, but it's hard to do something badly for 40 years.


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## BassClef (Dec 6, 2022)

davidson said:


> James Horner. Dodgy accent aside, the guy knows how to write a melody.
> 
> Best score - Braveheart.


I was about to drop Horner into the conversation. Thanks


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## L70 (Dec 6, 2022)

I'm ok but it takes a lot of practice to realize you'll never be as good as a lot of other players puting in the same time. But I enjoy it and I've recently discovered because of all the piano training I had, that I enjoy composing more. And with today's sample libraries the rabbit hole got a lot deeper.


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## patrick76 (Dec 6, 2022)

Chi said:


> Regardless, Giacchino and Williams both went to Berklee, so they most likely got the same level of instruction.


John Williams went to Julliard.


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## L70 (Dec 6, 2022)

BassClef said:


> I was about to drop Horner into the conversation. Thanks


Didn't the Wrath of Khan score get released recently? Ooh.


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

patrick76 said:


> John Williams went to Julliard.


Oops my mistake. They both took music at Julliard.


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

L70 said:


> I'm ok but it takes a lot of practice to realize you'll never be as good as a lot of other players puting in the same time. But I enjoy it and I've recently discovered because of all the piano training I had, that I enjoy composing more. And with today's sample libraries the rabbit hole got a lot deeper.


For real.


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## Noeticus (Dec 6, 2022)

It's John... John... John Barry. (perhaps)


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## PuerAzaelis (Dec 6, 2022)

JW baby


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## Great Zed (Dec 6, 2022)

Williams, Herrmann and Elfman were the Gods I worshipped growing up, but if I had to pick all around best it'd be Williams. Favorite score from him is Jurassic Park. Seeing/hearing that movie at 7 was life-changing.


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## cloudbuster (Dec 6, 2022)

J. Goldbarry ... can't decide.


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## Scalms (Dec 6, 2022)

IMHO..

I think one of the hardest things to do in composing music, and specifically soundtracks, is coming up with a memorable _melody_ that fits the visuals at the right moment _*and*_ can stand on its own and move us without the big screen. 

Coming up with memorable harmonies, rhythms, sound worlds, etc, is easier in my mind. With that as my barometer I can't think of anyone other than JW who has had as many incredible melodies written over his career, that have touched and left an impression on many many many people. I guess this makes JW the greatest imo, although he is not my favorite.


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## HarmonKard (Dec 6, 2022)

Chi said:


> I will not tolerate answers like Alexandre Display


You mean Alexandre Desplat? Why would you not tolerate him? Or is that a joke I missed? 

(yes I miss jokes sometimes)


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## SamiMatar (Dec 6, 2022)

No one film composer is goat in every genre. But my favorites: 

Action/SciFi: Jerry Goldsmith
Adventure: John Williams
Drama: James Horner

List goes on...


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## jamie8 (Dec 6, 2022)

how about George and Ira Gershwin?


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## KEM (Dec 6, 2022)

Hans Zimmer is definitely the GOAT but right now Ludwig Göransson is king, and I have no doubt he’ll dethrone Hans to take that true GOAT spot one day


For me John Williams is only in the question because of his icon status but he’s very one dimensional and can only really do one thing, and yeah, he does that one thing better than everyone else, but I value versatility and John Williams doesn’t have any of that


So that’s my answer, Hans Zimmer is the GOAT but Ludwig Göransson owns the industry right now and one day he’ll be the GOAT and Hans will be second


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## Pier (Dec 6, 2022)

Prockamanisc said:


> JW is extremely versatile. Sure, he's got a big bellcurve where a lot of his works sit, but at the fringes are scores like Catch Me If You Can and Accidental Tourist. Versatile.


Also Munich. Without knowing who scored it I would have never guessed it was JW.


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## Pier (Dec 6, 2022)

The Gost said:


> Sorry for the JW fan club... but for the "new film music" I would say Hans Zimmer and Jóhann Jóhannsson.


Johan Johansson is amazing. His protegé, Hildur Guðnadóttir, is also doing great things.


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

HarmonKard said:


> You mean Alexandre Desplat? Why would you not tolerate him? Or is that a joke I missed?
> 
> (yes I miss jokes sometimes)


Autocarrot hates me


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## Robin Thompson (Dec 6, 2022)

Chi said:


> Has JW ever written a guitar solo?


Of course.


Chi said:


> How about a real drumline?


Not sure what you mean. A percussion-oriented cue like this or this? Or like a rock groove? Or did you mean a military drumline?


Chi said:


> JW would probably like to forget that the music from Jabba's palace even existed. I would.


I'll assume you mean that knock-off muppet nonsense from the Special Edition, which Williams did NOT write. Because if you're talking smack about Lapti Nek I'll have your head. That song _slaps_.


Chi said:


> If you listen to Medal of Honor, then you'll start to wonder if MG didn't inspire Williams!


Only if MG had a time machine to get a copy of the score to Williams before he wrote Saving Private Ryan or JFK or Born on the Fourth of July etc., etc. Not to mention a few more copies for Horner and Goldsmith and everyone else who had a hand in establishing the patriotic war movie sound.

(To be clear, MOH is a great score, but, like the rest of the game, it was very deliberately calibrated to evoke the feel of Private Ryan and similar films - in fact I believe development of the game was kickstarted by Spielberg himself. It's very pretty, but not original. I think MG's own voice begins to show itself a bit more starting with Call of Duty.)


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## Great Zed (Dec 7, 2022)

KEM said:


> For me John Williams is only in the question because of his icon status but he’s very one dimensional and can only really do one thing, and yeah, he does that one thing better than everyone else, but I value versatility and John Williams doesn’t have any of that


Have you ever actually listened to any of his scores?


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## Loïc D (Dec 7, 2022)

KEM said:


> For me John Williams is only in the question because of his icon status but he’s very one dimensional and can only really do one thing, and yeah, he does that one thing better than everyone else


I can’t recommend enough to check *The Baton* podcast reviewing all soundtracks written by JW through 110 episodes.

Spoilers : yes he did drums-oriented soundtracks, and synth-heavy ones, and jazz, and guitar scores, etc.


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## handz (Dec 7, 2022)

Oh no, not again ) 

But John Williams without a doubt. 
Ask anyone on the planet to sing/whistle or just nah nah naaa some movie melody, and I am sure JW will be the most prominent. His compositions are modern classics. Noone came close. Objectively.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 7, 2022)

Steiner, Herrmann, Goldsmith, Williams.

HM: Vangelis, Elfman, Powell, Zimmer


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## FinGael (Dec 7, 2022)

These guys know. You should ask them.

My personal favorite: I really dig what Sibelius came up with for the movie "Sibelius" (2003).


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## Colin66 (Dec 7, 2022)

Difficult to say who the GOAT is but Lalo Schifrin has to get a mention. He could do it all. Bullitt, Mission Impossible, Dirty Harry and a whole lot more.








Lalo Schifrin - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## biomuse (Dec 7, 2022)

L70 said:


> True, and Alex North’s original score may have worked better. Just been on a Ligeti kick lately.


Ligeti the man who saw postmodernity clearly, before it even had a name.


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## Lord Daknight (Dec 7, 2022)

My favourite soundtrack composers are a three way tie between Revo, Hiroyuki Sawano and Toby Fox

I love Revo's music so much because he just doesn't care how over the top his music is, how in every AOT opening/ending he made he just brings in a German dude not even to sing, just to speak German menacingly for a bit with menacing orchestral music behind it. I love it so much. The first time I heard Guren No Yumiya I immediately decided I need to rethink how much I love the Brass section. His pure creativity in instrumentation and chords is what I want for my stuff.

Hiroyuki Sawano they say is like Japanese Hans Zimmer, but I prefer Sawano personally because Japanese Strings, just good old Muroya/Aizawa Strings. It just awakens my inner hope. It's so simple but words, I'm not so sure they can describe what his music makes me feel. His first track I heard was XL-TT, which within the first second made me reconsider passing on Attack on Titan.

Toby Fox managed to get a composing position for Nintendo using almost only free soundfonts. Just think about the fact that samples from Earthbound, a Nintendo game, which Toby used for his games, now found their way BACK into a Nintendo game, Super Smash Bros. Oh did I mention his style of melodic composing and ability to make harmonies and melodies still today blows my mind and inspired to be a composer to begin with??

I just can't say any of these three are better than the others


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## Winema (Dec 7, 2022)

Has to be Hans Zimmer. Extremely versatile, effective, and just plain brilliant.


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## Pier (Dec 7, 2022)

I'd say probably Bernard Hermann or John Williams. I'm fairly certain their music will still be relevant 100 years from now.

It's difficult to say about our contemporaries like Hans Zimmer etc. We are in a cultural bubble after all and it's difficult to say what will transcend.


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## Pop Corn (Dec 7, 2022)

Pier said:


> I'd say probably Bernard Hermann or John Williams. I'm fairly certain their music will still be relevant 100 years from now.
> 
> It's difficult to say about our contemporaries like Hans Zimmer etc. We are in a cultural bubble after all and it's difficult to say what will transcend.


It feels like anything post 2000, maybe 2010, is temporary, and absent of longevity and legacy. Like a tasty meal that will be forgotten tomorrow. Whereas the classic film/TV/Music prior to 2010 feel more like fond memories of a great family restaurant that produced many excellent meals and memories before closing down. 

I'm fully convinced that if the most influential and coveted musicians and artists were starting out today, their music and art wouldn't make it out of their bedroom.

It felt as if music and art was a real part of life growing up (and I'm not even that old), but particularly in the last decade, it's become background fodder for the average person. I see it with my own family. My father has an excellent 5.1 system, yet, listens over a tiny Bluetooth speaker 99% of the time. My mother will have her playlist playing through her iPhone speaker while she does her makeup. I just hate seeing all those juicy bass frequencies abandoned for the sake of convenience. 

On the flip side, you have people who are OBSESSED with audio and have adopted things like Atmos and completely immerse themselves in the full sonic spectrum. Far from convenient though. Wouldn't it be great if Atmos equipped listening rooms began popping up everywhere? Like a cinema for music. Go in and spend an hour listening to your favourite music/a new album in the dark or with some sort of visual show.

Most everything feels like a cheap trill these days. It's getting even worse when you have things like TikTok and YouTube Shorts that reward tiny tiny clips of music/film. No time to tell a story. No substance. People don't even know the name of the artist they listen to anymore. They just put a playlist on in the background. They probably know it as "Oh, that's the song from that 'Chillout Vol 1' Spotify playlist" (This is speculation though 😂)

That's why I try to make time for people who want to share their music with us here and other forums. We know what goes into it. The learning curve, the 'soul', the time spent.


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## KEM (Dec 7, 2022)

Great Zed said:


> Have you ever actually listened to any of his scores?



I’ve listened to all the big ones and they all sounded exactly the same



Loïc D said:


> I can’t recommend enough to check *The Baton* podcast reviewing all soundtracks written by JW through 110 episodes.
> 
> Spoilers : yes he did drums-oriented soundtracks, and synth-heavy ones, and jazz, and guitar scores, etc.



Let me know what some “out there” ones from him are and I’ll give them a listen, especially ones with synths or guitars


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## KEM (Dec 7, 2022)

John Williams = Joe Montana
Hans Zimmer = Tom Brady
Ludwig Göransson = Patrick Mahomes


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## Great Zed (Dec 7, 2022)

KEM said:


> I’ve listened to all the big ones and they all sounded exactly the same


He's got a very distinct style, if that's what you're getting at. He's probably not the best fit for every type of movie. But you can't tell me Schindler's List sounds exactly the same as Harry Potter, War of the Worlds, Jurassic Park, Witches of Eastwick, Jaws, The Terminal etc, etc. His canvas is the orchestra, which he's able to bend at his will to fit picture better than most if not all living composers (without all those fancy Kontakt libs), and I'll bet Ludwig and Hans are big fans.


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## KEM (Dec 7, 2022)

Great Zed said:


> He's got a very distinct style, if that's what you're getting at. He's probably not the best fit for every type of movie. But you can't tell me Schindler's List sounds exactly the same as Harry Potter, War of the Worlds, Jurassic Park, Witches of Eastwick, Jaws, The Terminal etc, etc. His canvas is the orchestra, which he's able to bend at his will to fit picture better than most if not all living composers (without all those fancy Kontakt libs), and I'll bet Ludwig and Hans are big fans.



They are, but I’m just not a fan personally. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a master of his craft, but his music just doesn’t excite me at all, it’s great to study and learn from, but I don’t get any enjoyment out of listening to it. I don’t want to hear only an orchestra all the time, what I love about Hans and Ludwig is that they can drastically change up their sonic palette which still maintaining their unique voice, so when I listen to John Williams music and I only hear a classical orchestra all the time I get bored very quickly


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## Great Zed (Dec 7, 2022)

I get it. He might grow on you. I used to dislike a certain composer when I was younger (who I shall not name here out of fear of stoning), but slowly over time became one of my favorites.


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## Pier (Dec 7, 2022)

Pop Corn said:


> It feels like anything post 2000, maybe 2010, is temporary, and absent of longevity and legacy.


All generations probably say the same thing about the next generation


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## olvra (Dec 7, 2022)

@KEM!

this one has riffy orchestra and plenty of sub-bass data, give it a chance!


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## Prockamanisc (Dec 7, 2022)

KEM said:


> John Williams = Joe Montana
> Hans Zimmer = Tom Brady
> Ludwig Göransson = Patrick Mahomes


Brady has 7 rings and 10 appearances. Williams has 5 Oscars and 50 something nominations. That's probably more apt. Unless you're basing it on age and era, and not comparable skills.


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## KEM (Dec 7, 2022)

Prockamanisc said:


> Brady has 7 rings and 10 appearances. Williams has 5 Oscars and 50 something nominations. That's probably more apt. Unless you're basing it on age and era, and not comparable skills.



Yeah true, I compared John Williams to Joe Montana cause he’s more of the old school guy that your parents love, and he’s definitely a legend, but it’s just a different time now and the playing field is so much different. What I see comparable between Zimmer and Brady is that neither one of them are “technically” the most talented, neither one of them are the most skilled, and if you’re going by the books neither one of them should really have had the success that they’ve had based on those factors, but what makes them alike is that they both have that “I’ll get it done somehow” mentality that’s carried them to so much success. It’s not about being the best, it’s about working harder and smarter than everyone else, and that’s something I see between both of them

And of course Göransson is like Mahomes in that they’re both on fire right now and taking everything over, and they can really do it all as far as their skillsets, Mahomes can outrun you just as good as he can throw a 50 yard hail mary, and Göransson can write some classical orchestral fanfare while at the same time making some futuristic djent/trap hybrid electronic score


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## GtrString (Dec 8, 2022)

Could be Chiquinha Gonzaga..


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## Loïc D (Dec 8, 2022)

@KEM some « off the beaten (sound)tracks » of John Williams that you may want to check : The Terminal, Stepmom, Heartbeeps, Always, The Fiddler on the Roof, Rosewood, Angela’s Ashes, Jane Eyre, Fitzwilly,…

You will not like some (most?) of them but it’ll show you that JW is far more than “wagnerian” orchestra.


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## Prockamanisc (Dec 8, 2022)

KEM said:


> Yeah true, I compared John Williams to Joe Montana cause he’s more of the old school guy that your parents love, and he’s definitely a legend, but it’s just a different time now and the playing field is so much different.


Actually, Williams is the talent of Drew Brees, the most accurate QB in history, with the rings of Brady. 

Williams got his first Oscar nomination in 1968. You know what else happened in 68? The second Super Bowl. Williams is Bart Starr.

He won his first in 1972. Williams is Roger Staubach.

He won again in 1978. Williams is Terry Bradshaw. 

Then again in 1983. He's Joe Theisman.

And again in 1994. He's Troy Aikman. 

And I also say he's Eli Manning, cuz if you put him head to head with anyone else, he's going to beat them.


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## KEM (Dec 8, 2022)

Prockamanisc said:


> Actually, Williams is the talent of Drew Brees, the most accurate QB in history, with the rings of Brady.
> 
> Williams got his first Oscar nomination in 1968. You know what else happened in 68? The second Super Bowl. Williams is Bart Starr.
> 
> ...



But at the end of the day, he’s not Brady


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## I like music (Dec 8, 2022)

If you haven't got Goldsmith in your Top 5, either block me now or send me your address so I can come fight* you

(*or rather stand outside your house and play all of his scores really loud until you agree to put him in your Top 5)


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## L70 (Dec 8, 2022)

Personal opinion, I put Goldsmith above Williams in terms of style and diversity. Alien, Chinatown, Star Trek, etc . Not a fan of John Williams, just like I don't like Tom Brady.

But there is no denying their skills and influence. 

Just like current football. I'm more of a Josh Allen/Joe Burrow guy, even if Mahomes is the most dominant right now. In the end, it's all subjective and fun.


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## Inventio (Dec 8, 2022)

All of them. I don't see the point to try and find the greatest. It is not a horse competition


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## PaulieDC (Dec 8, 2022)

Inventio said:


> All of them. I don't see the point to try and find the greatest. It is not a horse competition


True. Even for others to say the playing field has changed so JW is dated or whatever, that doesn't work. What the composer did at the time is exactly why we still revere the genius of them, otherwise Max Steiner and Bernhard Hermann and JW and Goldsmith and all the rest need to be wiped. Might as well tank Mozart too, since he unknowingly wrote Amadeus.  (I know, I know, needle drop but it works).

We watched Last Crusade the other night for the first time in years, and now with a more trained (or simply aware) ear, I was listening to JW's compositions throughout the movie and I really got why he's the Jedi master. For the record, I really like Thomas Newman, from Nemo to 1917 and all points south.


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## Prockamanisc (Dec 8, 2022)

L70 said:


> Personal opinion, I put Goldsmith above Williams in terms of style and diversity. Alien, Chinatown, Star Trek, etc . Not a fan of John Williams, just like I don't like Tom Brady.
> 
> But there is no denying their skills and influence.
> 
> Just like current football. I'm more of a Josh Allen/Joe Burrow guy, even if Mahomes is the most dominant right now. In the end, it's all subjective and fun.


Goldsmith is so good. I remember watching a movie last year (Sum Of All Fears) and I was like "this is a unique score, but it's really solid...I bet it's Goldsmith. And it was. He never ceases to completely nail it. Never too much or too little. As much as we should aspire to have JW's craft and ability to write some of the greatest memories of the 20th century, we should aspire to be Jerry Goldsmith as just an all-purpose, never-fail composer.


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## telecode101 (Dec 8, 2022)

i think there is no such thing as "the greatest". they are all different and unique. there is just "your favorite"


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## Alchemedia (Dec 9, 2022)




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## PaulieDC (Dec 13, 2022)

tmhuud said:


> Oh.. I dont know. I guess maybe Aaron Copland and that Display guy.


Here it is, a full week later, and I am still cracking up over “… and that Display guy”, LOL! This isn’t something I can even share with friends and family, they wouldn’t have a clue what or who I was talking about. Gotta love our unique community.


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## tmhuud (Dec 13, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> Here it is, a full week later, and I am still cracking up over “… and that Display guy”, LOL! This isn’t something I can even share with friends and family, they wouldn’t have a clue what or who I was talking about. Gotta love our unique community.


Dont take the silliness too far or the hammer will fall from those that remain silent. 

And yeah, there are those that are just your favorites. Let me think of a personal favorite growing up that didn’t go anywhere but had an impact on my life: 🤔 2 off hand : Mike Batt and MJL (Michael J. Lewis) Although MJL had a career.


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## tmhuud (Dec 13, 2022)

Well…Mike did too but wasn’t very prolific. Hey! Wanna hear an AMAZIBG soundtrack to get the blood running? Check out “Caravans” by Mike Batt.


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