# Albion v tundra at the edge of silence - worth $199?



## Zoot_Rollo (Mar 23, 2018)

sale for the rest of today.

thoughts?

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/promotions/albion-v-tundra/


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## Zoot_Rollo (Mar 23, 2018)

solo strings too

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/promotions/spitfire-solo-strings/


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## DavidY (Mar 23, 2018)

For Tundra, you have less than 20 minutes to decide! (If you want it at the sale price.)

I posted in the other thread that I don't know whether it's right for me, but I think that's a statement about where I am in my development, rather than the product. 
It does seem like a lot of stuff for the price, but I'm no expert.


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## MaxOctane (Mar 23, 2018)

Tundra is great, and this price is fantastic.


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## SoNowWhat? (Mar 23, 2018)

Think I’m too late (re the sale) but IMHO, yes it’s worth that price. Absolutely.


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## markleake (Mar 23, 2018)

Tundra is great. I haven't used it a lot, but what I do use it for I don't think you can really get elsewhere.

I don't have the solo strings, but my thoughts are it is probably better to hold off for their re-release. There are other probably more versatile solo string libs out there that are good as first chairs. CSSS for example. The SF solos are recorded in Air though, whereas the others are not.


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## Jeffrey Peterson (Mar 23, 2018)

I didn't even see this till now!


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## husselblum (Mar 23, 2018)

Jeffrey Peterson said:


> I didn't even see this till now!


 
I think you're still good to go. On the website the discounted price is still available right now...


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## Jeffrey Peterson (Mar 23, 2018)

husselblum said:


> I think your still good to go. On the website the discounted price is still available right now...



Yes, the sale is still up. Just purchased


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## PeterN (Mar 23, 2018)

Yea, other thread full of “I love tundra!” but hardly a single analysis on _why_. One guy asked whats the difference with another librarys sul tasto, sul ponti and similar, (cant recall whole question) and he got one reply saying “I love tundra, tundra is peculiar”, something like that. Maybe its great for textures, but if u got about 10 other libraries great for textures, at least over here, I need more reason to buy it now than someone writes “love tundra!”. Still sort of waiting for more specified reasons, although sale is over. Checked the online videos, and yea, sounds ok, but so do many other libraries.


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## SoNowWhat? (Mar 24, 2018)

PeterN said:


> Yea, other thread full of “I love tundra!” but hardly a single analysis on _why_. One guy asked whats the difference with another librarys sul tasto, sul ponti and similar, (cant recall whole question) and he got one reply saying “I love tundra, tundra is peculiar”, something like that. Maybe its great for textures, but if u got about 10 other libraries great for textures, at least over here, I need more reason to buy it now than someone writes “love tundra!”. Still sort of waiting for more specified reasons, although sale is over. Checked the online videos, and yea, sounds ok, but so do many other libraries.


Fair comment. I'll try to be more specific in future.
The OP asked peoples opinion on whether it was worth this sale price, so I answered that question.


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## PeterN (Mar 24, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Fair comment. I'll try to be more specific in future.
> The OP asked peoples opinion on whether it was worth this sale price, so I answered that question.



Hey, wasnt about your comments. Just in general, but about that other commercial thread.

This was a bit personal opinion too, as last year I would had fallen for 10 people writing “I love it!”. This year there was a resistance 

Honestly, I suspect this hype is from the crowd that dont compose so much, but just have cool sounding textures. Im sure a slightly mysterious texture library must sound great. What do I know, but would have been great to hear more opinions on why Tundra is so great than just “love it!”.

Does it REALLY change a lot if u replace, say, Orchestral Swarm, Olof Arnaulds or even Albion 2 flautando with Tundra? Really? How? The sound? Would that make _it_ ?


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## blougui (Mar 24, 2018)

It’s also the amount of material and instruments that make any Albion standing apart from the other libs. I ´ ve listened many times to reviews and demo but each time I find it much too muddy - which might where tundra naming comes from, ahah. 
Now it’ s the harmonium Vald grid that I’m digging more than the string content - have enough atmo with beautiful super sul tasto from SSS and granular textures from LCO.


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## angeruroth (Mar 24, 2018)

PeterN said:


> Yea, other thread full of “I love tundra!” but hardly a single analysis on _why_. One guy asked whats the difference with another librarys sul tasto, sul ponti and similar, (cant recall whole question) and he got one reply saying “I love tundra, tundra is peculiar”, something like that. Maybe its great for textures, but if u got about 10 other libraries great for textures, at least over here, I need more reason to buy it now than someone writes “love tundra!”. Still sort of waiting for more specified reasons, although sale is over. Checked the online videos, and yea, sounds ok, but so do many other libraries.


The answer you are refering to could be mine:
Vik said: I'm certainly interested in "the edge of silence", but I wonder what Tundra can do (in terms of string sounds) that I can't do with the Sul Tastos, Super Sul Tastos, Flautandos and Con Sords in SSS and SCS.
I said: The Soft and Wild strings have peculiar textures and sound. The whole lib feels different to me. And I'm loving it  So I believe I did the right thing today.

You are right, not much information there, but I thought it was the best quick way to explain the biggest different with other orchestral libs.
Well, the "And I'm loving it  So I believe I did the right thing today." part wasn't really a comment to Vik but to myself  Those 200€ are a big effort to me, so I'm glad for loving the lib not because a hype o GAS but because it's better than I expected.


But, here is my humble review after a few hours playing with Tundra (only the orchestral stuff):
The sound is good, and almost everything feels real. I expected that much, but the way notes blend is very good IMHO.
The difference with other orchestral libs is the texture. You can hear that in the longs and the shorts in the strings. Also, most of the brass and winds articulations are/sound different that the ones you find in a regular orchestral lib. The nuances make the difference here.
In the "Soft and Wild" patches (that's the name in the lib) you find more extreme sounds, things I think should not be used in excess, and in the "Main" patches things you can use almost anywhere.

This is not an all-in-one orchestra. I don't think you want to replace your main VIs with it, but if you are used to tweek your instruments (you learn to do that when you don't have lots of libs) I think you could get good results.
Anyway, that's not the idea behind this lib. It gives you nuances and good sounds. That is what it does.
Can you use it for soft and/or ambient music? Yes! That's what this lib is about. When I hear it I think of landscapes, cathedrals and little mammals, but that's just me. That doesn't happen with your regular Sul Tasto, Flautando, etc.
Can you use it for enhance your orchestral music? Yes. I'll use it with EWQLSO. But first I want to know the lib by itself.
Can you use it for epic music? Well, if you up the volume and throw some fxs in the mix... But if that's what you want out of the box you won't find it in this lib. Go for other libs like Ark or Majestica.

BTW, the VST Performance meter (Cubase) is at 12% with 8 Tundra instances working. As a reference point, it is in the same SSD than Adagietto and the latter takes 12% with 4 instances working.

Well, that's all I can say right now about the orchestral stuff.

Hope this helps someone.


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## Cinebient (Mar 24, 2018)

I decided to go for it mainly for the brass and wind content since the sale was too good now. I think also it should go fine with the HZ Strings since they are all recorded at AIR. I´m sure i get also some extra use out of the strings section and synth/sample engines included in Tundra.
I also wanted something which is more easy for microtuning and/or add MPE for usage with my Seaboard Rise.
This might work much better in Kontakt libraries.
In general i like what i saw about the SA own plug-in but i think it needs a lot more customization.Since it´s V.1.0 i guess it will happen.
I imagine to get similar sounds out of Tundra and HZ Strings while HZ is even bigger and Tundra might be somewhere between this and some smaller ensembles i already own. 
Most important i still have a good feeling to bought it the next day


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 24, 2018)

It’s my favorite string library at the moment. Then again, most of my work is underscore, and for that, Tundra is amazing.


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## markleake (Mar 24, 2018)

@PeterN. Tundra has a different sound than both Albion 2 and the flautandos or Con Sords in either SSS or SCS. I find the strings a little harder to use in more regular tracks because of how they are recorded - they are bigger sections playing very quietly and restrained, so you get more presence in the sound, which is both good and bad. In places where you need a quieter, or thinner, or alternative "interesting" sounds, I think Tundra sounds beautiful. It's also great for underscore, as Ned say. Good for doubling too - the flautando legato is good for that, eg. to add silkiness.


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## PeterN (Mar 24, 2018)

Thanks for replies. Sorry slightly hijacked this thread, this just happened to be something Im sort of thinking on now. Didnt want to disturb the commercial thread. Now just saying, been a little over a year in this business and starting to understand something.

Heres the analogy.

We have these fishermen coming down every summer where I lived as kid, and they all bring their new lures for fishing. Its mainly pike they fishing, but a few other fishes too. So they have these lures, some are a bit blue, som a bit longer, some even a bit neon light and so on. Sometimes hype about some new lure on the market. Anyway, there was this guy who tried to replace the lure with a carrot, and put a hook the carrot. Story goes the carrot worked better than their lures.

So in conclusion, Tundra is another niche library, and probably sounding damn good, but me gonna put those 199€ on a trip to Portugal instead, and get some interesting experiences out of the trip. Then write a damn good song inspired by it all and use another niche texture library, if its even needed.


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## axb312 (Mar 24, 2018)

PeterN said:


> Thanks for replies. Sorry slightly hijacked this thread, this just happened to be something Im sort of thinking on now. Didnt want to disturb the commercial thread. Now just saying, been a little over a year in this business and starting to understand something.
> 
> Heres the analogy.
> 
> ...



I share your sentiments...I also don't understand how Tundra is the Apex of Spitfire Libraries - I thought that would be SSS or something in that vein. This kinda feels like Spitfire throwing a dog a bone with the Tundra discount.


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## Puzzlefactory (Mar 24, 2018)

PeterN said:


> Yea, other thread full of “I love tundra!” but hardly a single analysis on _why_. One guy asked whats the difference with another librarys sul tasto, sul ponti and similar, (cant recall whole question) and he got one reply saying “I love tundra, tundra is peculiar”, something like that. Maybe its great for textures, but if u got about 10 other libraries great for textures, at least over here, I need more reason to buy it now than someone writes “love tundra!”. Still sort of waiting for more specified reasons, although sale is over. Checked the online videos, and yea, sounds ok, but so do many other libraries.



Does there need to be more explanation than it sounds good...?


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## Wake (Mar 24, 2018)

It is a godsend for quirkiness, imperfections, subtlety and texture.

At this price, I'd buy it just for the extended woodwind & brass palette. The bends, multiphonics, overblown, air, etc. artics are what I've been missing. The strings and other instruments are just a bonus.

edit: and regarding "other" textural libraries... there are very few, and neither does what the others do. Lumina, Ark 2, Tundra, Sotto. That's it. I own Lumina and now Tundra too, and I'm happy as a pig in mud.


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## Consona (Mar 24, 2018)

PeterN said:


> So in conclusion, Tundra is another niche library, and probably sounding damn good, but me gonna put those 199€ on a trip to Portugal instead


Yep. I have Albion II since its release and I have not used the flautando patches like ever. And I always watch those walkthrough videos, LCO, Tundra, etc., thinking how cool those articulations sound when in the end, I just sit next my keyboard, with the basic kontakt factory piano patch loaded, trying to come up with some good melody. No cool sounding patch can save me from that.

And when I really have an urge to spend some money on something I don't really need, I go to youtube and find some piano only compositions from the masters. Fur Elise, 1 piano, 2 hands... "now it's your turn, you loser".  Or I listen to some Star Trek Goldsmith and Horner or Star Wars Williams for that reality check that the only thing I really need is the basic set of intruments and their articulations.

I can understand Ned loving the lib since it's his job to compose underscore stuff, Tundra must be wonderfull for that, but for myself, I cannot justify the money spent on something I'll use once in a year. Maybe some day, but still, was listening to the Predator soundtrack, all those cool things in the score, it's a piano patch and some brass and string shorts. And most importantly, great catchy ideas.


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## PeterN (Mar 24, 2018)

Puzzlefactory said:


> Does there need to be more explanation than it sounds good...?



Yea, well the thing is, when u have 10 libraries that are somewhat similar (when u stretch the concept a bit) you start to ask yourself if u really _need_ another library that “sounds good”.

But Im getting the picture. Some of u dont actually compose, u collect fifty ‘sound good’ libraries and add some quirkiness on them. The main thing is some ‘sound’. Nothing wrong with that, just good to know, when all the hype is going on and u think where to put the money. I got slight stress during the “love it!” campaign but managed to keep it together. This time it will be Portugal instead. And if theres a new Olafur Arnaulds library next week, will pass that too.


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## Fleer (Mar 24, 2018)

There’s a difference between an ornithologist and a bird. He will never fly.


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## Puzzlefactory (Mar 24, 2018)

Bit of a leap of logic there, “you guys don’t compose you just collect sound libraries...”


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## PeterN (Mar 24, 2018)

Puzzlefactory said:


> Bit of a leap of logic there, “you guys don’t compose you just collect sound libraries...”



Yea, well, not meant personally. Just more as generalization.


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## Puzzlefactory (Mar 24, 2018)

Consona said:


> I just sit next my keyboard, with the basic kontakt factory piano patch loaded, trying to come up with some good melody. No cool sounding patch can save me from that.



I dunno, I think cool sounding patches can be really inspiring when it comes to writing cool melodies.

I spent around half an hour this morning before work, playing with Una Corda and a couple of string patches from Tundra and came up with the beginnings of a nice track almost straight away.


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## Consona (Mar 24, 2018)

Puzzlefactory said:


> I dunno, I think cool sounding patches can be really inspiring when it comes to writing cool melodies.
> 
> I spent around half an hour this morning before work, playing with Una Corda and a couple of string patches from Tundra and came up with the beginnings of a nice track almost straight away.


I don't argue that it's not inspiring, but did it inspire you to write the next Indiana Jones main theme?  Not that it has to be your goal, but you know what I mean...


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## Consona (Mar 24, 2018)

Then again, I'm glad the sale for Tundra is over since my will is only that strong...


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## blougui (Mar 24, 2018)

There ´s a name for the behaviour of seeking any sign of confirmation behind purchase decisions  

Sometimes I feel like VIC has turned into Gearslutz of sort. I’m afraid I can also be held responsible for that shift... SA, and 8Dio before them, are stellar at making us believe we somewhat need their products, whatever our budget, whatever our goal (hobbyist or professional).


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## ism (Mar 24, 2018)

PeterN said:


> Yea, well the thing is, when u have 10 libraries that are somewhat similar (when u stretch the concept a bit) you start to ask yourself if u really _need_ another library that “sounds good”.
> 
> But Im getting the picture. Some of u dont actually compose, u collect fifty ‘sound good’ libraries and add some quirkiness on them. The main thing is some ‘sound’. Nothing wrong with that, just good to know, when all the hype is going on and u think where to put the money. I got slight stress during the “love it!” campaign but managed to keep it together. This time it will be Portugal instead. And if theres a new Olafur Arnaulds library next week, will pass that too.





I feel this calls for a musical defence of Tundra.


Lets start with Arvo Part. If you read a book like "Arvo Part: Out of Silence" you can perhaps glimpse a sense that there's its not just that he's playing with nifty textures, but that the way he uses timbre is absolutely, fundamental to his musical innovations, indeed fundamental to the musical worlds he's opening up.

In the Spitfire marketing, Christian talks about the moment of first hearing Part's "Fratres' as almost an epiphany. I have a similar moment (it was with Part's "Cantus"). It wan't unlike that moment of hearing Sgt Pepper as a 14 year old - suddenly music changed forever.

I experienced first hand how fundamental these timbres are to the compositions when I though I might try to compose something in this style of Part's "Cantus" - using the VSL SE. And it was a painful lesson that timbres aren't incidental. You can write notes in that style. But without the kind of articulations that Tundra provides, you just cannot inhabit that musical worlds that have opened up.


And I'd imagine this is true of very many innovations in orchestration over the centuries. Including the delay effects on those early U2 records - hard to say what it is about those echo-y textures but they're complete fundamental to the musical worlds created. Having played in a band trying to play u2 songs before anyone could afford a proper delay effect, I can also attest to this first hand also. I'd go so far as to argue that those songs couldn't have been written sitting in front of a piano, without the medium of a guitar loaded the delay effects. Much in the same with Bach's cello suites, which almost certainly couldn't have been writing without Bach's intimate knowledge of the cello itself - the effect of playing them on a piano is only a shadow of what you get from a performance of a real cello.

I also sometimes think of Beethoven as "The Edge" of his particularly century - for instance the big innovation of his 10th string quartet was in making pizzicato becomes a musical texture in its own right - pizz. had been used before but more as a sound effect not a full articulation. (I mean this as a complement although I'b sure Beethoven wouldn't have taken it as such)

But back to Tundra - it's not that everyone buying it is composing in the style of Arvo Part. But there is a depth of tradition there the bleeds into many others here. Part is (a least arguably) part of the "Holy minimalist" movement, and his orchestrational innovations can be understood more broadly as a part of the large minimalist movement as a reaction to the over-complexity of the dominant 12-tone compositional style of the 70s. The spitfire marketing talks about how this itself is a part of a Scandi tradition going back to Sibelius (I'd love to know more about this), and in general there are significant orchestrational innovations coming out of that scene far beyond any one composer (Although Part's Fratres does make for an amazing demo).

Tundra itself takes this spirit and goes far, far beyond it. Not least, it complements some of the emerging aesthetics in Icelandic and Scandi films scores. And I'd be willing to bet that if you were to trace genealogy of influence of these composers you find an enormous web of influences ranging from Sibelius (and his folk influences) through the Holy minimalists, the New York minimalists, and vast amount of other sources of inspiration.

So if you go through the articulation list and think only "all you sul tastos sound the same to me" then true enough, this probably this isn't the library for you.

And if your compositional style doesn't extend to the kinds of musical spaces that these timbres open up, I can of course completely respect that.

Or if you like this as a sound design library - its a great sound design library too, although this isn't how I personally use is - then wondering how it compares to Heavocity or Audio Imperial libraries is an interesting question also.

But wha I think what this thread is asking in asking why is it so great is, to me at last, a very different question. And a very interesting question, both musicological, and personally.


And I'll admit that it rubs me the wrong way to see Tundra's defenders being mocked for supposedly mindlessly repeating "I love it". But I do understand how difficult it can be to get a sense just how new this library is, in that it allow a new kind of composition, not just adding slightly new textures to and older style of composition.


So might I respectfully reflect that a statement like the one above sounds like how 19th century critics dismissed, for instance, the impressionist painters: "u don't really paint, you just collect ... impressions' (which of course was greatly disparaging at the time). And indeed some of Beethoven's orchestrational innovations met with similar dismissal.

Not that anything I compose with Tundra is likely to artistically rival Beethoven or the impressionists. But at least it lets me imagine the possibilities, possibilities that I I'm still trying to get my hear around, and expect to spend years trying to better understand.


Tl;DR: I love Tundra.


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## Zhao Shen (Mar 24, 2018)

Tbh I really really hate these sorts of "Worth it? Right for me? Should I buy?" threads, especially those that provide no background on the prospective buyer. It's basically saying "hey guys this library looks cool but I can't justify spending $x on it, so I'm going to let my purchase decision become a democracy since I can't decide for myself."

And let's be clear, that sort of democratization isn't inherently bad. But it is for VSTs, because there is absolutely no one on this forum that can advise your purchases better than yourself. If the library content is great for the type of music you compose and fills a void in your current collection, then it is objectively a good purchase for you. Collecting data of "yays" and "nays" from a forum is the worst idea ever, because everyone has different tastes, preferences, and backgrounds.

A heavy metal producer votes "nay" because they haven't touched "that dumb ass pretty princess shit" since purchase. An atmospheric soundtrack composer votes "yay" because it's become invaluable to them. By asking for people's opinions, you're essentially taking a random sample of composers and deciding your purchase based on how many found Tundra useful in their own style of music.


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## PeterN (Mar 24, 2018)

ism said:


> I feel this calls for a musical defence of Tundra.
> 
> 
> Lets start with Arvo Part. If you read a book like "Arvo Part: Out of Silence" you can perhaps glimpse a sense that there's its not just that he's playing with nifty textures, but that the way he uses timbre is absolutely, fundamental to his musical innovations, indeed fundamental to the musical worlds he's opening up.
> ...



Great review ism. It sounds the library stands out.


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## Fleer (Mar 24, 2018)

Yet sometimes you meet a fellow traveler whose musical appetite you share. Reading his or her perspective, albeit short, on a library may make you sway. No harm in that.


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## Fleer (Mar 24, 2018)

ism said:


> I feel this calls for a musical defence of Tundra.
> 
> 
> Lets start with Arvo Part. If you read a book like "Arvo Part: Out of Silence" you can perhaps glimpse a sense that there's its not just that he's playing with nifty textures, but that the way he uses timbre is absolutely, fundamental to his musical innovations, indeed fundamental to the musical worlds he's opening up.
> ...


^^^ This


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## DavidY (Mar 24, 2018)

ism said:


> (Although Part's Fratres does make for an amazing demo).


I have to admit that the Part demo on the Spitfire page did influence me towards pressing the "Add to Cart" button.


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## pfmusic (Mar 24, 2018)

ism said:


> I feel this calls for a musical defence of Tundra.
> 
> 
> Lets start with Arvo Part. If you read a book like "Arvo Part: Out of Silence" you can perhaps glimpse a sense that there's its not just that he's playing with nifty textures, but that the way he uses timbre is absolutely, fundamental to his musical innovations, indeed fundamental to the musical worlds he's opening up.
> ...


+1. Tundra wasn't produced to create John Williams scores. Crazy to think this.

One of the most beautiful string libraries from 2016. I bought it on pre-sale back in October 2016 and have used it so many times.

A steal for those who bought this during the Apex promo.


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## PeterN (Mar 24, 2018)

So maybe after all this new talk Spitfire should put Tundra for sale for one more day, there may be more people still interested. 24h was such a rush, some of us were trekking and couldnt get down to city with Internet connection. 24h was not good, please extend it for 24h more.


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## PeterN (Mar 24, 2018)

Some people were in hospital and had no way to make it for that horrible 24h limit. We need an extension.


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## Geoff Grace (Mar 24, 2018)

There's some very helpful advice in this thread. I'd like to add that a YouTube search and a web search will also provide some helpful input in the form of product reviews and Spitfire demos and walkthroughs. For example:

http://www.musictech.net/2017/03/spitfire-albion-v-tundra-review/ (MusicTech | Spitfire Audio Albion V – Tundra Review: Build Textured Soundscapes)









Best,

Geoff


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## markleake (Mar 24, 2018)

I think @ism said it very well.

Liking a particular VI for it's sound/texture isn't exactly a great indicator of composing skill.

And yes, I admit I really like Tundra.


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## Henu (Mar 25, 2018)

Zhao Shen said:


> A heavy metal producer votes "nay" because they haven't touched "that dumb ass pretty princess shit" since purchase.



As a heavy metal producer, I respectfully disagree.


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## Dr Belasco (Mar 25, 2018)

The original post headline said 'is it worth $199?'

The only way you can quantify anything like that, is (a) are you using it for fun and like the sound a lot or (b) how long will it take to make that back in track sales and personal tax reduction.


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## angeruroth (Mar 25, 2018)

I didn't think about it yesterday, but I just realized that this first experiment using Tundra orchestral patches could be useful here.
It is naked, so the sound is what the lib does by default. I only changed the mic volumes.




markleake said:


> Liking a particular VI for it's sound/texture isn't exactly a great indicator of composing skill.


True.
Also, liking a car doesn't make you a good driver 
Well, you can't run in F1 with an old Cadillac. You can practice and improve your skill, thats for sure, but if you try to get the same end result you may go crazy.


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## Fleer (Mar 25, 2018)

Dr Belasco said:


> The original post headline said 'is it worth $199?'
> 
> The only way you can quantify anything like that, is (a) are you using it for fun and like the sound a lot or (b) how long will it take to make that back in track sales and personal tax reduction.


Whatever happened to making music as the essential fulfillment of one’s existence


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## Matt Hawken (Mar 25, 2018)

So I'm too late because the sale has come and gone.

But here's my (not quite so) old man response.

*ANY* sample library is worth its price. I create custom libraries and do a lot of live recording. It's a crazy amount of work. I don't know of any library that is overpriced given the expense of doing it yourself.

However, the real question isn't really about the price point of the library. It's whether you are going to create something of value with the samples you've just acquired. Because if it's going to sit on your SSD with a bunch of other neglected libraries, then yep, that purchase was a waste.

But if you use it to make something that amazes/inspires/transforms/enhances then that's awesome! You created something you, you changed a life, you brought something new to the table.

It doesn't matter what you buy. It matters what you make.

(The quote in my signature is always relevant to us composers.)


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Mar 25, 2018)

There's quite some nonsensical argumentation and oddly depreciating assumptions going on in this thread. What's up with that?

I get that Tundra can be confusing to some, as it doesn't follow the typical layout of orchestral libraries and its purpose might be unclear because it's obviously not a "bread and butter" library. But then again, if one listens to the demos, looks at the list of articulations, watches the walkthrough and still doesn't know if they "need" this or not - I'm not sure what kind of group confirmation one expects?

As far as I'm concerned: if you wouldn't know what to do with it - don't buy it. Do you need any other input other than the one that your hearing and imagination are already giving you? If it doesn't inspire you, why contemplate buying it? Because it's on sale?

Anyways ... I view the library as a color and texure toolbox. I'm sure it's super useful on its own for underscore music and moody soundscapes. But the way I like to use it is to add texture and "chaos" to more standard orchestral sounds. For example, layer standard pizzicato with the "Brushed Pizz CS" from Tundra for a truly lively, magical, sweet sound. Layer standard basses with "Silken CS longs" to make the low end really big and epic without having it sound processed. Add the "vibrato" or "slight bend" to high brass chords to make them sound wider and less demure. Generally, add the more softer and hollow sounding longs patches to normal string harmonies to tame the strident quality of some sample libraries. Next time you're looking for a sparkly, animated motion texture in your favorite soft synth, try the "ricochet" high strings together with a soft mark tree sample instead.

In music production with samples, some unpredictability and secret sauce is welcome. Whether that's worth 200, or 450 bucks to you, is another matter.


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## Dr Belasco (Mar 25, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Whatever happened to making music as the essential fulfillment of one’s existence



I've seen numerous psychiatrists and taken huge amounts of narcotics to overcome that at great expense.


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## Fleer (Mar 25, 2018)

Dr Belasco said:


> I've seen numerous psychiatrists and taken huge amounts of narcotics to overcome that at great expense.


Brings us back to (b) how long will it take to make that back in track sales and personal tax reduction.


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## Dr Belasco (Mar 25, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Brings us back to (b) how long will it take to make that back in track sales and personal tax reduction.



Haha! That's the difficult one. On a more serious note or thought, unless it's a given that people buy musical gifts for themselves and have unlimited supplies of funds, then I don't see anything wrong with that at all, especially if they're not looking for a return. I'm like that myself with guitars and anything to do with guitars.
But if you're writing material for financial gain, it should be obvious to whomsoever it concerns how, when and wherefore a certain type of library will give them a good chance to make money. After all, sooner or later your entire gear stack will have paid for itself and everything after that is net profit. Until you buy the next load of gear.

As an aside, I would say that in my case, Tundra has been fairly encouraging thus far.


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## Michel Simons (Mar 25, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Whatever happened to making music as the essential fulfillment of one’s existence



Whatever happened to buying sample libraries just for the sake of buying sample libraries.


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## Fleer (Mar 25, 2018)

Dr Belasco said:


> Haha! That's the difficult one. On a more serious note or thought, unless it's a given that people buy musical gifts for themselves and have unlimited supplies of funds, then I don't see anything wrong with that at all, especially if they're not looking for a return. I'm like that myself with guitars and anything to do with guitars.
> But if you're writing material for financial gain, it should be obvious to whomsoever it concerns how, when and wherefore a certain type of library will give them a good chance to make money. After all, sooner or later your entire gear stack will have paid for itself and everything after that is net profit. Until you buy the next load of gear.
> 
> As an aside, I would say that in my case, Tundra has been fairly encouraging thus far.


You're absolutely right. Then again, it would be interesting if we could have different pricing for professional and non-professional use. As it stands, there's the educational discount of course, like 30% off at Spitfire, but this doesn't serve its purpose when there's a higher discount for everyone.
Would be sweet if the new Hans Zimmer Strings could be bought for $99 on the condition of non-professional usage.


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## Dr Belasco (Mar 25, 2018)

I would almost certainly buy HZ Strings at $99. But I'm not sure of making a return on that one. It's way off what I'm any good at. More for the big sounding boys. Half price Mallets would be nice. My birthday next month and my wife's already bought me a box of cigars. One of the publishers I write for has intimated for the next brief I need to get all the Output stuff. I have no idea what that's all about. It may cost me dear and I'm not talking about the sample libraries!


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## Cinebient (Mar 25, 2018)

I think a return can be money to make a living, a feeling you get when using these tools or it just make you happy to save that on your SSD 
Value is always in the eye of the beholder.
Professionals might get more "return" but maybe an hobbyist get more happiness out of it since you are not forced to work for other people and really can do what you want.
I bought a lot stuff as hobbyist where people would say i´m crazy and i have to do a lot extra work at my real time job which has sadly nothing to do with music and stress me out often and saving for long time to can afford these tools.
It´s often a choice between repair the car or buy a new music production tool.
But mostly i feel a "return" in some ways. 
And i think beside the educational discount it´s O.K. that everyone should pay the same price as everyone must pay the same for other things. 
I often saw in other music forums (especially in last few years) that people say much software is overpriced in times where you get 10 dollar apps on smartphones and iPads which sounds close to a real analog synth and compete with even some high end desktop stuff i really appreciate all the time and work which must go into such projects and developers have to eat and should have enough money to invest further in their ideas.
Uuupps, long worthless post......i would say it´s worth it


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## jiffybox (Mar 25, 2018)

I've never had any confusion or questions as to what Tundra is or isn't or what it can or can not do. From the moment it came across my radar last year I just clicked with it and I think it's as ambiguous or specific as you make it to be using your voice and talent. Seeing as there are a broad range of walkthroughs and demos online, it's pretty clear as to what the sound and function of Tundra is, in my opinion. It's unique, it's lovely, it's a world unto itself and I can't imagine anyone buying it and not being able to find use for it or finding it underwhelming or lacking in value. You'd have to pry it out of my cramped, MIDI-controller-clutching hands. It's certainly near or at the top of my _If I Could Only Keep One Library™_ list.


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## Zhao Shen (Mar 25, 2018)

Henu said:


> As a heavy metal producer, I respectfully disagree.


An exaggerated anecdote doesn't affect the argument itself. My point stands.


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## Fleer (Mar 25, 2018)

Mine as well


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## Jim Martin (Mar 27, 2018)

Damn, I always miss these sales. I really want Tundra but can't pull the trigger because it was just on sale and I missed it :(


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## Heizenhaus (Mar 27, 2018)

angeruroth said:


>



Thanks for that. It just gave me the idea to recreate the East German anthem ("Auferstanden aus Ruinen") with Tundra. The build-up from 0:10 to 0:20 and the trumpets starting at the minute mark reminded me a little bit of it.
Guess I'm going to sit down this weekend and try so.


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## Jonas Hallstrom (Apr 1, 2018)

Mostly Albion V Tundra
I like the sound of the hollow brass (intro etc)


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## KEM (Apr 1, 2018)

I would definitely recommend it, the Albion series is known for it's great quality and large amount of content, it's the only Albion I own along with Albion ONE, and I've found a lot of use out of it. My only gripe with them is that there aren't individual sections of instruments, but ensemble libraries never have them so I don't complain about it, what you get more than justifies the price, in fact, even if it costed more I'd still have bought it.


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