# Question for owners of Albion One and Metropolis Ark 1



## cmoran2001 (Jan 24, 2017)

Howdy all! I'm looking to get my first "real" orchestral sample library not named Garritan (hangs head in shame) and am wondering what people's opinions are of Albion One and Metropolis Ark 1. I've read up a lot the past few days (waiting for my registration to the forum to go through) and have watched countless YouTube videos on both.

I guess a little background- I am by no means a professional in any of this. It is (for now) a hobby, but I've been playing music for most of my life (piano/keys, guitar, bass, horrible drummer, etc). As I said earlier, I do have Garritan Instant Orchestra as well as Garritan Personal Orchestra 5. Looking back I kind of wish I'd saved my money to spend on something else, but it did peak my interest in orchestral arranging. I'm looking more for something that can get me up and running and inspired with good sounds that don't need a ton of tweaking. These two seemed to fit the bill.

The general consensus seems to be that, for the price, you can't go wrong with either. While all of this is obviously subjective, I would say at least 80% of opinions I read about both of these products are overwhelmingly positive. 

Albion One seems to be the more "complete" of the two as far as instrumentation goes. Metropolis seems to be lacking in the upper woodwinds area (by design) but makes up for it with a devastating low end. I've seen some really interesting things in Albion One like the Stevenson Steam Band section, and the runs/arpeggio-type section seems like it would be helpful to someone starting out writing music like this. With Metropolis Ark and the Capsule Player it seems like you're able to do a lot of really interesting things as far as blending articulations with things like the CC x-fade 2D. The choir is lacking in Albion, and despite only using nonsense syllables it sure sounds like it could be Latin to my ears! 

Every time I watch a video of Metropolis Ark being demonstrated, I'm sold! Then I'll go back and watch some Albion One vids and I'm back leaning towards that. I know either of these will be worlds better than what I've been using, so I guess I'm just asking those who have both, what they recommend I start with, and maybe why. A bit wordy for my first post. Apologies for that and thanks to those who've made it this far. Thanks for any opinions on either, one way or the other. Cheers!

-Chris


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## dcoscina (Jan 24, 2017)

I have both and they work well together. Since Ark 1 concentrates on mf to fff you might be limiting as compared to One but it's very crisp sounding and very dramatic. Really depends on what kind of music you are envisioning composing


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## NYC Composer (Jan 24, 2017)

I have Albion 1 (not ONE) and Met Ark. For loud dramatic material I'd recommend the Ark. For a wider range of material, definitely Albion (again, I don't have the update but I can't imagine it has LESS range.)


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## dcoscina (Jan 24, 2017)

NYC Composer said:


> I have Albion 1 (not ONE) and Met Ark. For loud dramatic material I'd recommend the Ark. For a wider range of material, definitely Albion (again, I don't have the update but I can't imagine is has LESS range.)


I actually prefer and use the original Albion over One.


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## dpasdernick (Jan 24, 2017)

NYC Composer said:


> I have Albion 1 (not ONE) and Met Ark. For loud dramatic material I'd recommend the Ark. For a wider range of material, definitely Albion (again, I don't have the update but I can't imagine is has LESS range.)



I also have the original Albion 1 and both Arks. I never got into Albion 1. Ark 1 is beautiful. You ma also want to consider Symphobia 1. It's older but still has a great sound. I think East West's Hollywood is still on sale. You need some SSD's to run it but that's a ton of bang for your buck.

Happy Hunting!


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## vms (Jan 24, 2017)

dcoscina said:


> I actually prefer and use the original Albion over One.


interesting, why?


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## NYC Composer (Jan 24, 2017)

dpasdernick said:


> I also have the original Albion 1 and both Arks. I never got into Albion 1. Ark 1 is beautiful. You ma also want to consider Symphobia 1. It's older but still has a great sound. I think East West's Hollywood is still on sale. You need some SSD's to run it but that's a ton of bang for your buck.
> 
> Happy Hunting!


That's a good point. For "orchestral arranging" EWHO would be better than either as it has a wider range of options.


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## lp59burst (Jan 24, 2017)

You may want to check out _*EW Composer Cloud*_ first. It's around $30 a month to subscribe. You'll get access to dozens of very good libraries to explore. Get your feet wet by trying out lots of different orchestral, choral, percussion, ethnic instrument, etc. libraries.
Then forge on from there...


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## ctsai89 (Jan 24, 2017)

NYC Composer said:


> I have Albion 1 (not ONE) and Met Ark. For loud dramatic material I'd recommend the Ark. For a wider range of material, definitely Albion (again, I don't have the update but I can't imagine it has LESS range.)




albion I is better than albion ONE. The sounds are a lot more organic from 1 than ONE especially the woodwinds. Just too much nasty oboe in ONE, no idea why.


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## JeffvR (Jan 24, 2017)

As an owner of both, I'd say go for Albion One if you're starting out.


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## Andrew_m (Jan 24, 2017)

I have albion One and can safely say it's a library I constantly go back to.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Jan 24, 2017)

Hi @cmoran2001, I don't have Albion One but own both Metropolis Arks. As much as I love Ark1, I wouldn't recommend it as a first library.

There is a strong bias with Metropolis : no high woodwinds, no low dynamics. It's not an all-rounder, but what it does it does perfectly.

I'll suggest Albion One, which should cover all the "basics".


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## humco (Jan 24, 2017)

I own ark 1/2 and Albion ONE. At this point, im saving up for the SSO. Albion and Ark 1 were great starting points and served me well, but I imagine that once I have SSO I won't ever look back on Albion ONE. Ark however, I can see myself still using ark at that point. 

The thing about Albion is that the articulation are pitifully limited, generally you've got access to short and long, with some sections being more fleshed out. I never really got the hang of the Stevenson band, although I know the EDNA engine can create some excellent sounds. I also rarely use the Easter island percussion, but only because I generally use beats in my tracks instead of epic percussion. 

Ark gives you an excellent choir. The sections have gaps because the instrumentation is selective, but for what instruments are featured, they come with some interesting articulations, more than you'll find in Albion. The guitar in ark is useless for me, and certain keys have noticeable sounds that keep you from really doing anything beyond an occasional power chord without sounding MIDI.

Both libraries sound terrific, but if I had it all to do again, I'd probably pass on Albion ONE and just start collecting the Spitfire orchestra parts. I would still probably end up getting ARK though. 

This is due to the kind of music I make, I don't have any new music posted but if u wanna hear an old track or two, check out the tracks alchemy (ark1), wrap it up (Albion one), and cinematic beats. You can PM me and I'll tell you specifically which libraries I used on which song. Good luck!

https://m.soundcloud.com/robert-d-adams


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## DSmolken (Jan 24, 2017)

I have MA1. It's a ton of fun. As I said elsewhere, it's not a bread and butter library, it's a very big and tempting tiramisu. If you want to produce "normal" orchestral music, it's probably not the most responsible choice. But if you want orchestral sounds to use in hip-hop or metal, it can be. Like I've also said elsewhere, it's got the best trap brass ever.

Either way, GPO5 will be good to have around, as it's very complete. If you need a solo clarinet, a small violin section or a choir, they're all there.


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## cmoran2001 (Jan 25, 2017)

Thanks for all the great info everyone! I did see the EWHO stuff on sale recently and thought about pulling the trigger. However, I held off after reading about quite a few people having problems either with RAM issues or the Play player. Of course there were almost as many people disputing those claims... The Cloud Composer is definitely something I will look more into as well. 

I almost feel like between the two- Albion One is like the reliable AWD SUV that is nothing fancy, but will keep me safe driving in the brutal winters of northern New Hampshire. Metropolis Ark is the souped up Mustang that doesn't make sense all year round, but is fun as hell to drive in the summer time. Do I want to be responsible or do I wanna go fast (and low, and LOUD!)???

Another question, how much of Albion legacy was included in Albion One? I remember watching a video talking about some legacy instruments (or sections, or articulations, or something?).

I've gone back and forth so many times, but it seems like a matter of taste and what kind of music I see myself making... Epic and loud? Or more balanced... My birthday is this weekend. I'm thinking of gifting one of these to myself, so I have a few more days of research/YouTube lusting until I decide. Will also look into Symphobia as suggested by someone earlier. Thanks again everyone!


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Jan 25, 2017)

One point also worth mentionning : Metropolis has an absolutely gorgeous choir section. (if this can help you not being responsible ^^)


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## ghandizilla (Jan 25, 2017)

Metropolis Ark 1 will sound more convincing because it has a lot of articulations and is very well scripted, *but* it lacks soft dynamics and high woods. So, unless you wan't to make trailer music only, it is *not *a go-to orchestra, rather a complement. Albion ONE will be more versatile, *but *the sounds are somewhat too clean, the brass longs are not intended for polyphonic lines (unless you want to have 24 horns playing together with a Arturia V sound), and the articulations are very limited (shorts, longs, legato, and runs for strings). Consequently, it's not *that * versatile, though it's well-suited for hybrid stuff. Some Legacy patches are included : woods and brass shorts and fx, strings shorts and long, app. 25 percent of the original Albion Legacy orchestra. Legacy is easier to be made sound well, because the orchestra-size is more handable, and there are some human inaccuracies in the sound. It would have been my recommendation if it were still available. I don't think either one (ONE or MA1) would be a definite solution, and I can understand you don't have the budget for both. Symphobia has no true legato, has been overused, and is poorly scripted, but it has been really well recorded and can be very inspiring. I don't think it's enough to make it an excellent purchase. I think the best would be to get the full Hollywood Orchestra for the same price. It's a no-brainer deal. You can compliment with Albion if you're overwhelmed with all the sections or on a tight schedule, but Albion lacks too much articulations and separate sections: it's *not *a complete orchestra, though it can help in the right context.

N. B. : I don't hear the "nastyness" of ONE Woodwinds. I really like them, and the octaved ("arranged") shorts are really handy. I think it's the best section of the ONE orchestra. I tend to use it rather than the Legacy WW in my templates.


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## Kaufmanmoon (Jan 25, 2017)

Around 2 years ago I was in your position. My choices were Symphobia, the Spitfire Albion range or East West.
There were only Albion 1,2 & 3 at the time I bought the bundle and then later update to 'One'

I tried the East West Composer cloud (worth doing for 1 month to see what you like) and the Symphobia stuff is something people still use and love.

Whenever this kind of thread appears i'm reminded that many people (including me) appear to like the legacy Albion, but there is a ton in there to get you started with ONE.

It's just the main string long patch that always bothers me, I wish they'd go back and offer a different mix on those. Shorts are great and Legato's you'll have massive fun with.

I've since moved on and bought their dedicated string and brass libraries so now only really go back to Albion for the Percussion and fx stuff, although I'm looking to add there also.

Albion will offer more than Ark for sure if you to pick the colours from the Orchestra. I doubt you'll use the Guitar, Bass or even drum kit that much in Ark.

I'd go Albion but know that you're likely going to delve deep further down the line with these libraries.

Ark 1 is around £470 so it's £71 pounds more than Albion.
You could grab Soundiron's Ensemble Choir for that price nearly.
Probably not as detailed as the one in Ark. 
Just another suggestion should you want a decent sounding choir library


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## byzantium (Jan 25, 2017)

DSmolken said:


> It's not a bread and butter library, it's a very big and tempting tiramisu.



Brilliant.


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## mc_deli (Jan 25, 2017)

The synth engine stuff in One is great fun. If you have a controller with some knobs/faders it is magic. That said, as a relative newbie myself, MArk1 is tremendously satisfying out of the box. 

If you expect to buy a lot more libs in future MArk1 makes more sense now I think. But if you have self control Albion One will serve as a great upgrade and fulfil your brief.


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## Jorgakis (Jan 25, 2017)

I only own MA 1 but I think it's the best brass library out there;D 
But I consider it rather hard only using MA 1 , I think you will find yourself searching for softer string pads and some WW staccatos really soon.
So I'd go with ONE or even HW orchestra.


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## ghandizilla (Jan 25, 2017)

Jorgakis said:


> I only own MA 1 but I think it's the best brass library out there;D
> But I consider it rather hard only using MA 1 , I think you will find yourself searching for softer string pads and some WW staccatos really soon.
> So I'd go with ONE or even HW orchestra.



The best *bass *brass library to be fair! (But what a grownling sound!) I still prefer CineBrass horns & trumpets (+ triads).


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## Jorgakis (Jan 25, 2017)

ghandizilla said:


> The best *bass *brass library to be fair! (But what a grownling sound!) I still prefer CineBrass horns & trumpets (+ triads).



You are right ! But I'm using e.g. the Bass trombones as a standard 2Tb 1BTb setup, they sound better than anything else in my opinion. For shorts and louder passages ofc.


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## ghandizilla (Jan 25, 2017)

Exactly the same in my template!


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 25, 2017)

Hoo-heee! Deleted!


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## robgb (Jan 25, 2017)

cmoran2001 said:


> Howdy all! I'm looking to get my first "real" orchestral sample library not named Garritan (hangs head in shame)


There's nothing wrong with GPO. It's a great way to test the water and I've heard some amazing mock-ups using it. So anyone who makes you feel "ashamed" because you use it is an a**hole.


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## robgb (Jan 25, 2017)

I have Albion One. It's a great library. But, frankly, I think you'd be better off getting a separate library for each section of the orchestra. Get full sections, not hybrid sections like Albion offers. There are many choices out there. I'd also suggest you get the driest samples you can and learn to work with them. This will allow you to create your own space rather than be forced to rely on the space baked into the libraries.


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## Fleer (Jan 25, 2017)

Albion One is a huge step up from Albion 1. Runs smoother and at the same time more refined. Also, Albion One includes the best of Albion 1 while leaving out the worst.


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## dcoscina (Jan 25, 2017)

vms said:


> interesting, why?


The Strings don't sound as lush and real. Their timbre to my ears is not as good as the original. Same with brass. It seems like they are enclose mic'd or something. The winds are an improvement and I mainly use Albion 1 for those


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## stonzthro (Jan 25, 2017)

buy both - next question.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 25, 2017)

robgb said:


> There's nothing wrong with GPO. It's a great way to test the water and I've heard some amazing mock-ups using it. So anyone who makes you feel "ashamed" because you use it is an a**hole.



I too find the poop-slinging when it comes to Garritan dumb and counterproductive. 

Garritan works just fine for ideas...don't let anyone tell you otherwise.


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## danielb (Jan 25, 2017)

Well I thinik it's simple, with Ark 1 you'll get a huge superb sound, really realistic for big ensemble, but it will be maybe difficult to make softer and delicate music with it... even if it's possible Albion will be more versatile but not so detailled ( for instance you have just high and low brass section while with ark you have trumpet, trombone, horn, cimbassi, tuba)... Also the articulation of Ark 1 are amazing (the Brass crescendo Flutter !! wooaw )
In the mean time with Albion you have a lot of loops & pads and fx... I think it's a better choice if you need an all in one package and are limited with your money...

Hope that helps but it's a difficult choice !!


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 25, 2017)

danielb said:


> Well I thinik it's simple, with Ark 1 you'll get a huge superb sound, really realistic for big ensemble, but it will be maybe difficult to make softer and delicate music with it... even if it's possible Albion will be more versatile but not so detailled ( for instance you have just high and low brass section while with ark you have trumpet, trombone, horn, cimbassi, tuba)... Also the articulation of Ark 1 are amazing (the Brass crescendo Flutter !! wooaw )
> In the mean time with Albion you have a lot of loops & pads and fx... I think it's a better choice if you need an all in one package and are limited with your money...
> 
> Hope that helps but it's a difficult choice !!



It's good posts like this that helped me decide against Ark last year (despite trying it out at a friend's and being impressed). As Daniel intimated (forgive me if I'm wrong), they're both basically out of the box wonders, but you might just get a broader dynamic range from Albion One.

I should mention, somebody(s) posted some really cool examples on this board of Ark in a quieter setting, so let's not completely discount it for being a one-trick pony.


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## danielb (Jan 25, 2017)

Yes I found Ark1 very impressive the sound is really realistic and the capsule interface is great (you can choose to put any articulation legato or not etc.) !!! Brass are really really realistic, and for sure you can still make a lot of style with it...
but if your aim is to have a toolbox for a lot of style (and not orchestral only with the Albion Brunel Loop & Stephanson Steam Band) Albion will be perfect & sounds also great !...

Just in some month if you begin to work more on orchestral stuff, make a template etc. if you want just an instrument per instrument orchestration you may feel limited ... it will be time to look at you wallet again !  

Have fun !

Dan


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## Jaap (Jan 25, 2017)

I do have Ark 1 and 2 and not Albion and I really love the Arks. Splendid libraries and the Capsule engine is a beast with some nice hidden gems. However it are not complete libraries if you want to have full control over every articulation, but you figured that out already I think  My advice would be if you decide to go for Ark 1 to also look into Ark 2 (and yeah that is quite a purchase), but they complement each other very well with a full dynamic range and it gives you a lot of inspirational tools. I also find the libraries easy to mix with other libraries due to the nice amount of mic options included. Can't speak for Albion about that, but I think that should be fine as well I guess?


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## cmoran2001 (Jan 25, 2017)

stonzthro said:


> buy both - next question.



I'll probably end up doing this eventually. Just wondering which to start with. Question: if I went with Ark 1, would GPO 5 be suitable for softer articulations, woodwind instruments etc. added to Ark 1 or are they so different sounding it would be hard to blend them?


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## DSmolken (Jan 26, 2017)

I've used MA1 and GPO5 in the same track, though it was hip-hop so "blend" doesn't have the same requirements it would in an orchestral piece. I think I used solo clarinet and violin from GPO5 as a lead, and a few layers of low brass from MA1. That worked fine. I've also used strings from both in pop tracks. For those kinds of uses, GPO5 is great at filling the gaps in MA1. Whether it's good for blending in an orchestral piece, well, I don't know.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Jan 26, 2017)

I suppose with the right reverb, EQ and mic position management (Metropolis allows a great variety of tones with its 4/5 mics per instrument), "everything" can be blended nicely in the right hands.

Sometimes, you have to adapt your orchestration to "hide" some defaults and make the overall sound to work.

Good luck and have fun !


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## reutunes (Jan 26, 2017)

robgb said:


> There's nothing wrong with GPO. It's a great way to test the water and I've heard some amazing mock-ups using it. So anyone who makes you feel "ashamed" because you use it is an a**hole.


I started my composing career using GPO - although I don't use it nowadays it has a special place in my heart as it forced me to orchestrate well and program samples with care and attention.


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## micrologus (Jan 26, 2017)

reutunes said:


> I started my composing career using GPO - although I don't use it nowadays it has a special place in my heart as it forced me to orchestrate well and program samples with care and attention.


The same here!


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 26, 2017)

Kota said:


> I think MA1 is far superior and a ton of fun. I would take Hollywood Orchestra Silver for $300 over Albion.



And that way you'd have both an out of the box and more dry alternative. A good thing imo.


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## cmoran2001 (Jan 26, 2017)

Thank you everyone so much for the responses! So many tips, suggestions, great information, all without any condescending tone that one sometimes finds in certain forums. I have decided to get ....... (drumroll).......

Metropolis Ark 1. Is it limited in its instrumentation? Yes, a bit. Does it sound freakin' badass? Absolutely! I'm in the process of downloading everything now, and will be sure to come back to comment once I get things up and running. Another reason for getting Ark is that it appears to only be sold on one website, by one company, which makes random pop-up deals less likely. I would also be able to get any of the Albions from Sweetwater, which allows you (assuming good credit) to spread out payments. After I start running into any roadblocks with Ark, I will probably go for EastWest's CC for a month or two to see if any of the Hollywood Orchestra's would fit the bill.

I sincerely want to thank everyone again for reaching out and helping with this (incredibly difficult) decision. I would love to just load up on SSDs and get every quality library I can, but that's just not in the cards right now. From everything I've heard of Ark, I really think I'm going to have a lot of fun!


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## Mike Fox (Jan 26, 2017)

They're both badass!


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## DSmolken (Jan 26, 2017)

Have fun and make awesome music.


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## danielb (Jan 27, 2017)

WOOOOW congrats & have fun with it you'll see it sounds awesome !!


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## stonzthro (Jan 28, 2017)

nvm


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