# Firepower! Original Composition *Epic Heavy Music*



## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 13, 2016)

Hello Everyone,

I am not by any means one of those composers who eager to write that much in the epic genre. But from time to time I try myself in even such field of music to see what I can bring to it. This track was done in 2 sessions, the ideas and orchester plus drums were recorded yesterday and all additional effects and guitars then today morning. So you see this one was done very spontanous. Here we go with my epic approach: FIREPOWER!



Any ideas on the sound / mix / composition?

Happy Banging.

Version 2:


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## Hannes (Apr 13, 2016)

Yeah, I like it! The style reminded me a little bit of Dream Theater, which I used to listen to a lot...

I think the Mix was also good - but the solo guitar at 1:28 could be louder (I think I never said that to a guitarist before^^  )


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 13, 2016)

Tastenklopfer said:


> Yeah, I like it! The style reminded me a little bit of Dream Theater, which I used to listen to a lot...
> 
> I think the Mix was also good - but the solo guitar at 1:28 could be louder (I think I never said that to a guitarist before^^  )



Yepp..agreed with the solo line..Thanks.


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## RiffWraith (Apr 13, 2016)

Cool. Your mix is lacking a bit of weight. I don't hear any bass guitar; maybe that's the issue.

The first four bars are cool, then you change the rhythm - that doesn't really work. You are throwing your listeners for a loop. Slight changes like that are almost never good - you need to either stick to the original rhythm with some variation, or make a drastic change... à la DT.

And, BTW - this does not remind me of DT at all. Being a fan since they were Majesty, this song is definitely not in that vein. Which is not to say that's a bad thing. 

Cheers.


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## novaburst (Apr 13, 2016)

@AlexanderSchiborr nice work very clean and clear mix maybe more low end, but great example and standard, 

as always.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 13, 2016)

Hello Everyone,
Thanks for all of your Feedback. I appreciate such helpful feedback very much as it really helps me work on some of the spots. As to the little less lowend, good point. As I haven´t yet recorded a proper Bass Guitar this might fix a part of that. To the other stylistic things: I will think about that as I always will tweak a little things here and there.


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## col (Apr 13, 2016)

Love the guitars at 1.30 .
What do you use ?
Cheers.


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## Baron Greuner (Apr 13, 2016)

SQUADRONS OF TIGER TANKS!!!

Great!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 13, 2016)

col said:


> Love the guitars at 1.30 .
> What do you use ?
> Cheers.



For the entirely guitars I have used a Kemper Amp. If you would like to know more details e.g. what the actual profile and settings etc. I have to look that up.


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## col (Apr 14, 2016)

Just the guitar really.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 14, 2016)

col said:


> Just the guitar really.



What you mean? The profile and settings? I can look that up, no problem.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 14, 2016)

BTW: I am recording right now a bass on that track. Normally I use a plectrum but I found out that here "fingered style is better" :D


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## doctornine (Apr 14, 2016)

Baron Greuner said:


> SQUADRONS OF TIGER TANKS!!!



Don't you mean a panzer division ?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 14, 2016)

col said:


> Love the guitars at 1.30 .
> What do you use ?
> Cheers.


It is a profile of an Engl Savage SE. Hope that helps?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 14, 2016)

So here we have the 2nd Version with a recorded Bass Guitar plus some tweaks in the drums (I layered there a couple of other sounds and added a reversed snare hit on every beat. Other little adjustments are like a louder soloing guitar and some more in your face rhythm guitars. I also notched out a frequence on the ostinato strings and looked here and there for the dynamics and orchestration. What do you think? If anyone is interested I could provide Stems of every single section. About the structure: This track has not really a B Section as I wasn´t sure if it needs one because I thought to melk this first statement, so the break is a bit to breath. Surerly there is always something about the structure which could be better or just different.


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## col (Apr 14, 2016)

The axe man !


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 14, 2016)

col said:


> The axe man !


Ah. Sorry..long day, slow brain on my side.

It is an Ibanez RG 2228 8 Strings with some EMG 808 Active pickups.


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## Wibben (Apr 14, 2016)

This is great man! Really liking how big the orchestra feels together with those chuggs! The melody reminds me a lot of the old Warcraft 2 score in a very good way


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## SymphonicSamples (Apr 14, 2016)

Hey Alexander, nice track man. I'm a sucker for heavy guitar tones, not that I ever pulled a tone that heavy when playing in metal bands many years ago, but then again at the time the 7 strings was the new land of opportunity  The piece is rather textually busy all the way throughout, but given the style it works.


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## novaburst (Apr 14, 2016)

Wibben said:


> This is great man! Really liking how big the orchestra feels together



+1


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## col (Apr 14, 2016)

Ibanez RG 2228 8 Strings - Cheers
That'l do it !


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## Baron Greuner (Apr 15, 2016)

doctornine said:


> Don't you mean a panzer division ?



Oh Yes. Panzer divisions. Those were the days!

Great track. Really moves forwards.


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## zacnelson (Apr 15, 2016)

Hello Alexander, thanks for posting this track, I've been looking forward to your next creation. If I may be so bold, I have a few minor comments to make about the mix, please feel free to ignore them of course.

1) The reversed snare is a great idea, but would be more effective is you didn't use it on every snare hit.
2) I would like the snare to occupy more of the mids/low-mids region, typically in a rock production the snare has a very special `seat of honour' in the mids and EVERYTHING else is pushed out of the way to give it plenty of room. It's hard to do that when you make the snare thinner, because it is currently sitting EQ-wise with a lot of other instruments which shine in that region.
3) There is a lack of low end for the kick drum, once again in a rock mix there is a special priority given for the kick drum so that even if it isn't overly loud, it is never competing for it's EQ home base. I don't recommend side-chaining other things to the kick to create room. I would suggest a different kick sample or paying some very careful attention to rock mixes to A/B where the kick sits and how other things are not in competition with the kick.
4) The guitar tone in the rhythm guitars is not to my taste, although having heard your other metal tracks such as `Touched By The Devilish One' I can understand absolutely what background you're coming from. However I feel that those metal tones with the mid scoop are more at home in a metal-only track like `Touched By The Devilish One', and in a hybrid-orchestral composition I found it fatiguing, and it seemed like most of the instruments in the mix were concentrated in the same EQ territory, without sufficient separation. (By the way I was very impressed with `Touched By The Devilish One', but that's another topic!) You may hate this recommendation because it's a pop song, but the guitar tones in this song:  achieve a good balance of a metal sound, but lots of concentrated mid-range frequencies, the EQ focus sits well underneath the high-energy elements such as vocals and cymbals, so it doesn't interfere.

I hope this isn't too many annoying comments!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 16, 2016)

zacnelson said:


> Hello Alexander, thanks for posting this track, I've been looking forward to your next creation. If I may be so bold, I have a few minor comments to make about the mix, please feel free to ignore them of course.
> 
> 1) The reversed snare is a great idea, but would be more effective is you didn't use it on every snare hit.
> 2) I would like the snare to occupy more of the mids/low-mids region, typically in a rock production the snare has a very special `seat of honour' in the mids and EVERYTHING else is pushed out of the way to give it plenty of room. It's hard to do that when you make the snare thinner, because it is currently sitting EQ-wise with a lot of other instruments which shine in that region.
> ...





Hi Zac, 

All good points on your obersavations there. Thank you a lot. And no there is no annyoing comment from you. Yes the guitar sound is indeed a bit scooped as this a bit of characteristic of it amp profile I have chosen the other day. I have uploaded this here: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6awo7lxkt...ion_drums_guitar_Bass_no_finalreverb.mp3?dl=0

And I added a bit more mids to the guitar. What do you think? I muted the whole orchestra so that you can hear only the drums, bass, and guitars.


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## zacnelson (Apr 16, 2016)

Wow that's a REALLY big improvement in the guitar tones, I can imagine it will sit underneath the mix more nicely, and there will be a greater clarity to the notes without all the buzz! I'd love to see what you can do to improve the kick and snare EQ. By the way I forgot to mention previously, I'm not a big fan of the snare patterns between 1:06 and 1:23, they feel disjointed and probably too loud. I would suggest muting the snare completely in that section, it would sound more decisive, and help to separate the various segments of the track.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 17, 2016)

zacnelson said:


> Wow that's a REALLY big improvement in the guitar tones, I can imagine it will sit underneath the mix more nicely, and there will be a greater clarity to the notes without all the buzz! I'd love to see what you can do to improve the kick and snare EQ. By the way I forgot to mention previously, I'm not a big fan of the snare patterns between 1:06 and 1:23, they feel disjointed and probably too loud. I would suggest muting the snare completely in that section, it would sound more decisive, and help to separate the various segments of the track.



I see. Do you have an idea how you would like to maintain a pulse. I mean what I don´t think is good to drop of everything in voices because that kills the forward motion completely. So keeping the forward motion is important ecspecially in such a track. Any idea? My idea was the snare drum in that case. But in case you have an idea for something else I am looking forward to try it out.


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## zacnelson (Apr 17, 2016)

Perhaps the issue is the style of snare playing/mixing… after the metal drumming in the first minute, it then shifts to the kind of snare usage that I would associate with an orchestral snare, but the mix and volume of the snare doesn't suit. It's just so LOUD and dry and in-your-face during that particular section, the snare feels like it is on it's own a lot. I don't have a good solution, because if the whole track was orchestral I think you would have pushed the snare back a long way so that it sounds like it's in the concert hall with the orchestra. But because the drums are rock drums, it might seem odd to suddenly start using an orchestral percussion snare for that section. It's actually a very nice section of the track, and I like how it moves away from the rock instrumentation for those 30 seconds, and when the big guitar chords come in afterwards it's a good dynamic shift. I suppose it might be interesting to see what it's like to drop the rock snare for that section, since all the other rock stuff is removed for that section.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 19, 2016)

Hello on a Monday evening guys, 

I came up with a version 3 which has a bit more punch because I worked on the guitars and bass balance a bit and I repeated one section more and intensified it with adding some synth and marcato choirs. 

Here we go:


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## zacnelson (Apr 19, 2016)

Things are sitting more nicely now, and everything is a lot clearer. Did you restore some mids to the snare at all? It appears to have much more clarity and focus in the snare, but I can't be certain whether that is because other areas have been tidied up, or whether it's because the snare has been fattened. 

Just one small thing… it sounds a like the master bus is distorting slightly in the loudest moments. I'm not sure if you'll need to lower the master volume, or if perhaps you have a tape simulator or something similar on the master bus which is being pushed into distortion on those moments. It's quite noticeable in the final few seconds.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 19, 2016)

zacnelson said:


> Things are sitting more nicely now, and everything is a lot clearer. Did you restore some mids to the snare at all? It appears to have much more clarity and focus in the snare, but I can't be certain whether that is because other areas have been tidied up, or whether it's because the snare has been fattened.
> 
> Just one small thing… it sounds a like the master bus is distorting slightly in the loudest moments. I'm not sure if you'll need to lower the master volume, or if perhaps you have a tape simulator or something similar on the master bus which is being pushed into distortion on those moments. It's quite noticeable in the final few seconds.



I tweaked here and there everything a little bit, also the snare drum. Oh really with the limiting, yeah..a bit less then, maybe some peak moments. Good point.


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