# Oscar 2020 - Hildur won best score!



## borisb2 (Feb 9, 2020)

wow - so great news .. congrats to her!!


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## Cat (Feb 9, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> wow - so great news .. congrats to her!!


Was it really better than Newman’s 1917? Interesting sound design...


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## borisb2 (Feb 9, 2020)

I would say yes - different of course 

love Thomas Newmans music - but 1917 was a bit too ambient for me - at least to get an acadamy award


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## Cat (Feb 9, 2020)

Fair enough, but I thought Joker was too sound effect-y (drone-y ?) for an Oscar. I will give it another try, though. I couldn't even finish listening to the album when I tried.

EDIT: by the way, I watched both movies, Joker and 1917, in theatres.



borisb2 said:


> I would say yes - different of course
> 
> love Thomas Newmans music - but 1917 was a bit too ambient for me - at least to get an acadamy award


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## borisb2 (Feb 9, 2020)

after watching the oscars I guess I have to watch parasite now as well


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## good (Feb 9, 2020)

I'm very proud of Parasite. They deserve a prize.
And congrats to Hildur.


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## ridgero (Feb 10, 2020)

I don't understand the principle of the Oscars...

Thomas Newman is still waiting for his first Oscar, he has already 14 nominations and lost them all.

Hands down, his scores are undoubtable one of the best ever, a pure Masterclass! Shawshank Redemption, Cinderella Man, Road to Perdition, American Beauty, Finding Nemo Green Mile, 1917 .... Seriously? Without his amazing soundtracks those movies wouldn't be as good as they are.

Was her "score" really that good? It doesn't feel like a soundtrack, it's more like a background sound design for me. 

I feel very disappointed.


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## Beluga (Feb 10, 2020)

ridgero said:


> I don't understand the principle of the Oscars...
> 
> Thomas Newman is still waiting for his first Oscar, he has already 14 nominations and lost them all.
> 
> ...


Not sure about the Oscars per se. But if I conclude from actual experience of mine a price or award is mainly a political achievement. Probably linked to crazy networking, manipulating, financial investment, the possibility of opportunities offered etc. Nothing to do with the actual music/product.


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## Tice (Feb 10, 2020)

Personally I think it's great, and well-deserved! Consider the style and subject matter of the movie and how demanding it is to portray musically the inner workings of this character. It's so easy to destroy what the movie was trying to build by making the wrong musical choices.


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## Anders Wall (Feb 10, 2020)

Yes! Congratulations to Hildur and her amazing music!
Best,
/Anders


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## Cat (Feb 10, 2020)

and she just had to go political as well...


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## Iswhatitis (Feb 10, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> wow - so great news .. congrats to her!!


On a more philosophical note...



Wouldn’t it be cooler if the Oscars were the movie industry’s way of acknowledging the true unsung heroes in our world?

ie. Best Fireman, Best Peace Officer, Best Nurse, Best Medic, Best Elementary School Teacher, Best Agricultural Field Worker, Best Janitor, Best Coal Miner, Best Steel Worker, Best Housekeeper, Best Dock Worker, Best Paramedic, Best Social Worker, Best Skyscraper Window Cleaner, Best Plumber, Best Electrical Lineman, Best Welder, Best Army Soldier, Best Junior High Teacher for each major subject, Best Tug Boat Operator, Best Toll Booth Operator, Best High School Teacher for each major subject, Best Garbageman, Best Street Sweeper, Best Exterminator, Best Animal Rescue Worker, Best Homeless Shelter Worker, Best Diner Waitress, Best Bus Boy, Best Mailman, Best Soup Kitchen Worker, Best Mechanic, Best Daycare Worker, Best Construction Worker, Best Assembly Line Worker, Best Doorman, Best Mailman, Best Food Delivery Driver, Best Taxi/Uber Driver, Best Fisherman, Best Forest Park Ranger, Best Navy Sailor, etc... as well as those who lost their lives in the line of duty and their job.

What does it say about our society that we covet rewards, praise and attention on people especially actors who typically already are or will be absurdly overpaid, lavished with fame and pampered with attention from agents to managers to assistants like they’re aristocracy just for being good at pretending?

Just maybe, though I’m not holding my breath, if we want to grow as a civilization the world should put an emphasis on kindness, sacrifice, honesty, ethics, hard work, loyalty, and character over greed, fame, money, power, and aesthetics looks. Certainly much of social media and pop culture only reinforces the wrong value systems IMHO....


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## dcoscina (Feb 10, 2020)

The only people who should be bummed are the nominees who didn’t win it and thus can’t ask for more money for their next project. 

I thought Joker had a very effective music score (though the climax in the street had sampled brass that took away from the dramatic effect a little bit for me). Of the nominees that I had heard, it was one of the more memorable scores. Williams’ RoS has its moments but I didn’t feel it did much for the movie. It plays better away from the film for me. Additionally, this kind of score is and has been embraced by Oscar voters who are comprised of not just musicians but actors, writers, hell maybe Kraft services for all I know.

To be honest, I think “best anything” should be judged only by people in that discipline because they are more informed than a make up artist who likes to listen to music casually (for example). As it stands, Oscar is a popularity contest and not an accurate measure of what’s truly exceptional. Just look at history: Goldsmith won once but has been cited as a pivotal figure in the development of the Kraft in most music and academic circles (well deserved). Herrmann only won once. Alex North got a consolation “lifetime achievement award” before he died which is ridiculous. 
Oscar also likes to change its mind as far as what is eligible. They gave Santaolala his second award for largely previous composed music but rejected Jonny Greenwood’s amazing score to There Will be Blood because it had a few minutes of one of his concert works in it though it was largely original. Shore was awarded for TTT which used previous themes and material. Morricone got it for The hateful 8 when he composed one theme and Tarantino used
Most of his 1982 score to The Thing while Williams composed a largely original score to The Force Awakens. 

now back to Joker. If we are looking at a score’s influence on its film, I’d have also nominated Mark Korven’s The Lighthouse which is a genius score that is every bit a character in that film as Hildur’s was for Joker. It’s scary as hell in fact. Great sound design and composition (thinkPenderecki and Ligeti).

moral of the story: there are lots of composers working today who have written brilliant music that have been passed over. It goes with the territory (Mahler never lived to see how the world embraced his music).


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## jonathanparham (Feb 10, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> after watching the oscars I guess I have to watch parasite now as well


Excellent film. I honestly didn't pay too much attention to the soundtrack. The drama and message is very powerful imo


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## Vin (Feb 10, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> after watching the oscars I guess I have to watch parasite now as well



It's a flawless film, highly recommended.


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## toomanynotes (Feb 10, 2020)

does anyone know where i can get a full bounded conductors score for the joker?


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## AEF (Feb 10, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> does anyone know where i can get a full bounded conductors score for the joker?



What exactly was there to conduct? Lots of footballs....


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## JohnG (Feb 10, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> does anyone know where i can get a full bounded conductors score for the joker?



Few movie scores are published commercially. Frequently, union issues are present, and even if they weren't, I would guess it's a fairly small market.

Omni Music Publishing (omnimusicpublishing dot-com) carries a number of scores. The ones I own are printed quite well and are also quite comprehensive -- they cover a large percentage (maybe every cue?) of the score, often much more than was originally released on soundtrack albums.

You can learn a lot from these -- including just how hard the parts can be and the players can still execute them.


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## toomanynotes (Feb 10, 2020)

AEF said:


> What exactly was there to conduct? Lots of footballs....


That’s what I’m trying to find out


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## toomanynotes (Feb 10, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Few movie scores are published commercially. Frequently, union issues are present, and even if they weren't, I would guess it's a fairly small market.
> 
> Omni Music Publishing (omnimusicpublishing dot-com) carries a number of scores. The ones I own are printed quite well and are also quite comprehensive -- they cover a large percentage (maybe every cue?) of the score, often much more than was originally released on soundtrack albums.
> 
> You can learn a lot from these -- including just how hard the parts can be and the players can still execute them.


Thanks John. I won’t be losing any sleep 😉


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## JJP (Feb 10, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> does anyone know where i can get a full bounded conductors score for the joker?


I don't think one exists at this point. Preparing music for publishing is a whole other endeavor from preparing it for recording sessions.


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## JJP (Feb 10, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Few movie scores are published commercially. Frequently, union issues are present, and even if they weren't, I would guess it's a fairly small market.


I don't think union issues are a big factor. It's more about cost, studio copyright/licensing, etc versus return on investment.


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## JohnG (Feb 10, 2020)

JJP said:


> I don't think union issues are a big factor. It's more about cost, studio copyright/licensing, etc versus return on investment.



You may be right, but I would have thought that using the orchestrators' work in such a way might trigger new use / re-use or some other payment. It might not be that much money, actually, but outsiders, in my experience, see the union as opaque and somewhat daunting when considering such hurdles.

John Williams explained at one Hollywood Bowl performance I attended that the relative dearth of performances of film music in part stemmed from having to repay orchestrators and copyists.

I am curious about what Omni does, actually.


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## JJP (Feb 10, 2020)

JohnG said:


> John Williams explained at one Hollywood Bowl performance I attended that the relative dearth of performances of film music in part stemmed from having to repay orchestrators and copyists.


And yet today we have a huge number of film score concerts and Disney has a whole office dedicated to them. A lot of the cost is that they have to hire copyists and orchestrators to edit all the scores and parts for live performance.


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## JohnG (Feb 10, 2020)

JJP said:


> And yet today we have a huge number of film score concerts and Disney has a whole office dedicated to them. A lot of the cost is that they have to hire copyists and orchestrators to edit all the scores and parts for live performance.



I guess we could debate whether it's a "huge" number -- I would hazard that there's quite a bit of pent-up demand. I thought most of Hans' tours (and maybe Bear McCreary's too?) were sold out, which would suggest that demand exceeds supply. 

Possibly they just aren't profitable (or not very) because of the expense, including extra players and your point about editing, re-orchestrating and re-copying. As a case in point, I conducted a "trailer music live" concert in NYC and, as one might assume, you need an awful lot of players -- including (often) drum kit, other non-traditional percussion, guitars, synths, and a choir -- to bring off that kind of music. Plus, you have to have projection and clicks -- a lot more gizmos than at a typical concert.

Still, I wonder why we don't we see more film music programmed by orchestras outside larger cities. Many orchestras say they want to bring in younger audiences, and this seems like one way to do it.


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## babylonwaves (Feb 10, 2020)

ridgero said:


> I don't understand the principle of the Oscars...
> 
> Thomas Newman is still waiting for his first Oscar, he has already 14 nominations and lost them all.



I know what you mean. He so deserves one. IMO John Powell as well. But then, film music can be so different and so hard to compare. Maybe at the end of the day, who wins, can't be a super fair and perfect decision.
I like the idea of Hildur, and Ludwig Goransson, receiving an Oscar though. I think they both brought something fresh to the table.


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## borisb2 (Feb 10, 2020)

Cat said:


> but I thought Joker was too sound effect-y (drone-y ?) for an Oscar.


well, both are very dron-y, but the score for joker is still a lot more (yet very intimate and minimal) orchestral - I mean played by real instruments  - half of 1917 "score" is so electronic, I wouldn't even know what to write on paper .. still sounding great of course. But what/who gets an Oscar in the end has always been beyond any regular human beings common sense

Listening to the joker score makes me wanna have another look at spitfires studio strings


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## ridgero (Feb 10, 2020)

babylonwaves said:


> I know what you mean. He so deserves one. IMO John Powell as well. But then, film music can be so different and so hard to compare. Maybe at the end of the day, who wins, can't be a super fair and perfect decision.
> I like the idea of Hildur, and Ludwig Goransson, receiving an Oscar though. I think they both brought something fresh to the table.



1995: Shawshank Redemption / Little Women Nominee -> Winner: Hans Zimmer (Lion King)
1996: Unstrung Heroes -> Winner: Stephen Schwartz (Pocahontas)
2000: American Beauty Nominee -> Winner: John Corigliano (Red Violin)
2003: Road to Perdition -> Winner: Eliot Goldenthal (Frida)
2004: Finding Nemo Nominee -> Winner: Howard Shore (LOTR 3)
2005: Lemony Snickets -> Winner: Jan Kaczmarek (Finding Neverland)
2007: Good German -> Winner: Gustavo Santaolla (Babel)
2009: 2x WALL-E -> Winner: A.R. Rahman (Slumdog Millionaire)
2013: Skyfall -> Winner: Mychael Danna (Life of Pi)
2014: Saving Mr Banks: Steven Price (Gravity)
etc....

2006: Cindarella Man wasn't even nominated! -> Winner: Gustavo Santaolla (Brokeback Mountain)


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## sourcefor (Feb 10, 2020)

Yeah I don’t understand the oscars anymore , I personally like John powell’s score better than the Joker score but horses for courses!


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## dcoscina (Feb 10, 2020)

All this politics stuff aside I think of the nominees, Joker had a very effective score. Is it great on its own? Well not really but that’s not what it was being judged on. Did it affect the film in a way that was profound or meaningful? For me, it did. 
If I want to listen to exceptional music as stand alone I turn to Shostakovich, Ravel, Stravinsky, Boulanger (LIli), M Korngold Etc.


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## dcoscina (Feb 10, 2020)

sourcefor said:


> Yeah I don’t understand the oscars anymore , I personally like John powell’s score better than the Joker score but horses for courses!


Powell’s Hidden World from a purely music standpoint was my favourite of 2019 by a large margin. But it was buried in the mix and that (along with the fact it was released last March which is an eternity for Oscar voter awareness) hindered it getting a nod.


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## babylonwaves (Feb 10, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> Powell’s Hidden World from a purely music standpoint was my favourite of 2019 by a large margin. But it was buried in the mix and that (along with the fact it was released last March which is an eternity for Oscar voter awareness) hindered it getting a nod.


from what I understand HTTYD3 couldn't get nominated because the first one was in 2011.


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## dcoscina (Feb 11, 2020)

babylonwaves said:


> from what I understand HTTYD3 couldn't get nominated because the first one was in 2011.


Just another example of Oscar changing their rules arbitrarily. Hidden World had more original music and less references to Powell’s previous scores compared to Williams’ Rise of Skywalker which was nominated. Oscar is a popularity award and nothing more, hence why I haven’t wasted my time watching it since the early 2000s. 

Marlon Brando and George C Scott had it right.


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## AEF (Feb 17, 2020)

Im really not certain how many different themes even exist in this. two, maybe? there is more sourced music in the film than original score. minor triads on non vib strings with some low drums, a few times in a film, gets you an oscar? its just an unbelievable sham and Hildur should be embarrassed by the academy using her for their “whoops we forgot to nominate women” mea culpa.


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## Loïc D (Feb 17, 2020)

babylonwaves said:


> from what I understand HTTYD3 couldn't get nominated because the first one was in 2011.


Wwwwwhat? Really ? Stupid rule...


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## jononotbono (Feb 17, 2020)

AEF said:


> Im really not certain how many different themes even exist in this. two, maybe? there is more sourced music in the film than original score. minor triads on non vib strings with some low drums, a few times in a film, gets you an oscar? its just an unbelievable sham and Hildur should be embarrassed by the academy using her for their “whoops we forgot to nominate women” mea culpa.



What is it you think should have got an Oscar instead then?


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## toomanynotes (Feb 18, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> What is it you think should have got an Oscar instead then?


It really doesn’t matter anymore, I also contributed to the lowest viewing figures ever for the oscars..it’s really gone downhill. Glad I experienced the good ole days before 2000, I used to stay up all night to watch em. Quality is downhill and who really cares about the actor’s political thoughts..the real heroes are people in real roles...teachers, police, doctors.


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