# Before you read Gödel, Escher, Bach...



## Tatiana Gordeeva (May 20, 2021)

An interesting article about a famous book that I, like many other people I know, never finished reading: _*Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid. *_
Deep subjects, many cross-links between them, unusual ideas... A classic imho!









Before You Read Gödel, Escher, Bach


This wonderful book, which unfortunately many do not finish, may require some preparation




www.cantorsparadise.com










I tried a few times but never went through all of it, I'm ashamed to say...


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## David Cuny (May 20, 2021)

I remember reading this in high school.

I already really interested in many of the core ideas - Greek philosophy, computer programming, recursion, AI, DNA replication - and hoped the book might provide me with some sort of practical insights.

It was a fun read... but sadly, when I was done I was no more able to write a self-replicating AI program, alter my DNA, or compose a fugue than before I had started reading it.

With the exception of writing a fugue or canon, I suppose that's for the best.


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## cuttime (May 20, 2021)

I did finish the book. My initial impressions were favorable, but as I reflect back on it over the years, I think a lot of it is ponderous and pretentious. It is a massive tome trying to illustrate the idea of recursion, a concept that is not really all that hard to grasp. Some of Hofstadter's conclusions are downright absurd, such as the idea of J.S. Bach reaching the culmination of the "incompleteness theorem" when he failed to finish "The Art of Fugue". Could it be that Bach just died before he finished it?


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## Double Helix (May 20, 2021)

Add me to the roster of those who started it but have not finished it -- I can actually see the spine from this vantage point.
Perhaps when I complete Borges' _Collected Non-Fictions_, (90% complete) I will delve back in. . .
Thanks for the incentive
(Borges is my master -- any others on the forum?)


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## Rob (May 20, 2021)

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> An interesting article about a famous book that I, like many other people I know, never finished reading: _*Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid. *_
> Deep subjects, many cross-links between them, unusual ideas... A classic imho!
> 
> 
> ...


same happened to me, I was very attracted by the title  and the cross references between music, logic and programming. Read almost to the end, but not quite...


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## cuttime (May 20, 2021)

Another problem with the book is that AI somehow can only result from some kind of "meta meta-ness". Recent advances in AI technology are often from neural networks, a concept that Hofstadter does not even begin to address, severely dating the book.


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## Rctec (May 20, 2021)

Our bible while working on “Inception” And “Interstellar“. annoyingly, Guthrie Govan, who plays guitar in my band, read it as a kid. usually, I just stare at him in amazement...  hz


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## ptram (May 20, 2021)

Just dusting it. Time to re-read it after so many years!

Paolo


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## CT (May 20, 2021)

I've been reading it for like eight years now....


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (May 20, 2021)

When my husband saw this thread he showed me _his_ well-thumbed copy of GEB and then confessed that he did not finish it either.  Sooo satisfying to finally know the truth... And he's a theoretical physicist. Made my day!!!


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## cuttime (May 20, 2021)

"Finnegans Wake" - Now there's a book I never finished, and I don't know anyone who ever has.


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## Alchemedia (May 20, 2021)

cuttime said:


> "Finnegans Wake" - Now there's a book I never finished, and I don't know anyone who ever has.


I have and I reread it every June 16th.


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## cuttime (May 20, 2021)

Alchemedia said:


> I have and I reread it every June 16th.


I shall address you as ”Sir” from now on!


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## rhizomusicosmos (May 20, 2021)

Alchemedia said:


> I have and I reread it every June 16th.


Shouldn't that be "Ulysses" as it's Bloomsday?


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## rhizomusicosmos (May 20, 2021)

Double Helix said:


> (Borges is my master -- any others on the forum?)


Love Borges, but Italo Calvino for me


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## Living Fossil (May 21, 2021)

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> I tried a few times but never went through all of it, I'm ashamed to say...



I've read it around 20 years ago and think there are some great insights there, but i don't think it's a book where "finishing it" gives you some special initiation.

One sentence from it that i think is fantastic is the following (since i read the book in German and i write it from my memory, it may be not a very exact quote...):

"A thing [concept] don't start to bore us when we explored every single of the possibilities it offers, but rather when we grasp the outline [room] of the possibilities it bears".

A great thought, specially for creatives...maybe someone who has the English book can provide the accurate quote...

And i also remember that i used some of the AI sentences from the book in a sound installation.


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## Loïc D (May 21, 2021)

Borges... A true genious, but I can’t read it very long before getting depressed.
Ulysses, I read it in French and felt like an endless hangover. But that’s an incredible book like no others.

If you like big books that lift you away from your everyday life, full of passion, mysterious talks, adventure, silly stuff and morals, I can’t recommend enough the 1001 Nights.
One of my all time favorites.


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## wst3 (May 21, 2021)

I read it between high school and college. Have to admit, I was hoping to learn the secret to writing like Bach, but it is still a secret.

I think I may have to re-read it, because I know for a fact I didn't get everything out of the first time around.

And I agree with the sentiment that in this case finishing it is not really the point.


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