# What do you guys regard as the best (non-tutti) woodwind library?



## Cinesamples (May 6, 2011)

+1 for VSL SE WW


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## Pzy-Clone (May 6, 2011)

In terms of sound i prefer Sonivox. But there is no legato, however...so it has to be VSL with a dash of HWW here and there. 

Here is a quick demo using the Sonivox Winds "out of the box", in case you are interested:
http://soundcloud.com/pzy-clone/pzy_chasing_shadows


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## José Herring (May 6, 2011)

adg21 @ Fri May 06 said:


> something that will get me more along the lines of say
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi_UqzCG0Fk



If that's the sound you want then VSL will get you the closest. But, that isn't saying much. Because the sound of those woodwinds in the spot sound atrocious. Sounds like they where recorded in a bedroom with a cheap dynamic microphone.


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## adg21 (May 6, 2011)

But I like that, sort of

Thanks all for your suggestions.


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## Ashermusic (May 6, 2011)

"Best" can mean so many things: most complete articulation set, most "realistic", best sounding out of the box, etc.

For me, EWQLSO and Sonivox, and just for tone and expressiveness, the old Miroslav stuff.


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## re-peat (May 6, 2011)

I also like the sound those Tiersen woodwinds, I must say. Very, very much so, in fact. Nothing atrocious about them whatsoever, to my ears. That's also the type of sound that Jon Brion often seems to go for in his recordings: treating woodwinds as very close friends rather than distant aquaintances. I like that.
Anyway, Adg21, for this type of sound I think you can't do any better than the XSample woodwinds. They're perfect for this sort of material. (Although VSL would be a terrific choice as well, no doubt about it. But XSample is better. For this thing anyway.)

_


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## antoniopandrade (May 6, 2011)

Here's a little excerpt of Debussy's La Mer that I mocked up. It shows a little bit of what you can do with VSL SE given the right tools for the job. 

http://soundcloud.com/antoniopandrade/debussy-la-mer-jeux-de-vague

What do you think of the woodwinds in that context?


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## bryla (May 6, 2011)

Does anyone know if IRCAM solo instruments could produce something similar?


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## re-peat (May 6, 2011)

It's got the sound, yes, but the IRCAM pack is a very uneven bundle, especially if you're used to the luxuries offered by the more established libraries (luxuries regarding velocity layers, round robins, etc. ... 'cause there's hardly any of that in the IRCAM set). 
It seems to me the IRCAM was never really designed to be a competitive/comprehensive collection of orchestral solo instruments like VSL or Westgate or XSample, but rather a collection that highlights the less familiar behaviour of solo instruments. The things it can do, it does do extremely well, but at the same time it can also be a bit frustrating if you need a versatile selection of 'regular' articulations. It does do regular articulations as well of course, but not to the extent as the other libraries mentioned in this thread.

Here's something I did (a while ago) with the IRCAM instruments (incl. its solo strings): http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/Bagatelle.mp3 (except for the clarinet which is Synful.)

_


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## José Herring (May 6, 2011)

re-peat @ Fri May 06 said:


> I also like the sound those Tiersen woodwinds, I must say. Very, very much so, in fact. Nothing atrocious about them whatsoever, to my ears. That's also the type of sound that Jon Brion often seems to go for in his recordings: treating woodwinds as very close friends rather than distant aquaintances. I like that.
> Anyway, Adg21, for this type of sound I think you can't do any better than the XSample woodwinds. They're perfect for this sort of material. (Although VSL would be a terrific choice as well, no doubt about it. But XSample is better. For this thing anyway.)
> 
> _



Sorry I'm the biggest woodwind snob in the world. Spent the first 15 years of my life playing nothing but clarinet (and a little sax). Got into Juilliard on the clarinet. Studied with the principle clarinetist of the New York Philharmonic. Played concerts with Lincoln Center chamber players, Jean Pierre Rampal, toured throughout Europe. But, enough about me.... :D 

That's just an atrocious woodwind sound. Half the information that even distinguishes the sound of the instruments are missing. Not saying that it wouldn't be usable in a quirky kind of way, but I'd reach a little higher. Something like this which I also think that VSL could pull off.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWqC6kRCLjI


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## José Herring (May 6, 2011)

btw Just looked up Tiersen. Never heard of him. He's quite good. Thx!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML4ffX4pvjk


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## noiseboyuk (May 6, 2011)

antoniopandrade @ Fri May 06 said:


> Here's a little excerpt of Debussy's La Mer that I mocked up. It shows a little bit of what you can do with VSL SE given the right tools for the job.
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/antoniopandrade/debussy-la-mer-jeux-de-vague
> 
> What do you think of the woodwinds in that context?



Well I liked it!


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## Peter Alexander (May 6, 2011)

josejherring @ Fri May 06 said:


> re-peat @ Fri May 06 said:
> 
> 
> > I also like the sound those Tiersen woodwinds, I must say. Very, very much so, in fact. Nothing atrocious about them whatsoever, to my ears. That's also the type of sound that Jon Brion often seems to go for in his recordings: treating woodwinds as very close friends rather than distant aquaintances. I like that.
> ...



Oh. Is that all.... ~o)


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## Udo (May 6, 2011)

josejherring @ Sat May 07 said:


> Sorry I'm the biggest woodwind snob in the world. Spent the first 15 years of my life playing nothing but clarinet (and a little sax). Got into Juilliard on the clarinet. Studied with the principle clarinetist of the New York Philharmonic. Played concerts with Lincoln Center chamber players, Jean Pierre Rampal, toured throughout Europe. But, enough about me.... :D


There's no need to advertise your handicaps :wink: .


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## re-peat (May 6, 2011)

josejherring @ Fri May 06 said:


> That's just an atrocious woodwind sound.


No, it isn't. If Adg21 and me (and Mr. Tiersen himself, I assume) are of the opinion that it's a bloody great woodwind sound, _then it is a bloody great sound._ (To us, I mean.) Simple as that. 
And your juilliarded, lincolncentred and rampalized opinion doesn't count for much in this particular context I'm afraid, in that you obviously have very little affinity with, or appreciation for, the type of sound that Adg21 is _specifically_ inquiring about.
A pity, if you don't mind me saying, that you feel the need to dismiss any opinion on sound — and even label the object of its preference 'atrocious' — that doesn't conform with how you were taught things are supposed to sound.

_


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## Stevie (May 6, 2011)

You surely know these 2 tunes José:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7BRpmbfPk0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QWaNV4E ... re=related


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## tripit (May 6, 2011)

re-peat @ Fri May 06 said:


> josejherring @ Fri May 06 said:
> 
> 
> > That's just an atrocious woodwind sound.
> ...



I like it as well - quarky Rotta style parts for comedy work really well with that raw more in your face sound. I like the fact that it has a short bright slap verb. Of course, I would want it different sounding in another context.
VSL for sure for this kind of thing.


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## José Herring (May 6, 2011)

re-peat @ Fri May 06 said:


> josejherring @ Fri May 06 said:
> 
> 
> > That's just an atrocious woodwind sound.
> ...



I don't. You have an opinion. I have a different one. For me. It's terrible. For you not. 

It's not how I was taught either. It's what I developed after years of bloodshed and tears. And to piss you off even further, the clarinet is quacky and the oboe sounds too pinched. The flute player lacks a center to his/her tone. The bass clarinet is ok. Pretty aggressive player which is what you need when you play BC. But really you need some distance and a good room to get that beefy basso bass clarinet sound. Same for the bassoon. The clarinetist has a bad embrasure. He has trouble holding pitch. He also has problems restarting the air and some of the tonging is sluggish. He's also not covering the holes completely all the time. I suspect that he's a doubler perhaps a sax player that aò º   ¾Þ º   ¿¼ º   Î º   Î º   Ó2 º   ÓC º   àD º   à[ º   ád º   áw º   îÓ º   îö º   óo º   ó‰ º   >¬ º   >× º   ƒM º   „ º   ‘  º   ‘º º   ž« º   Ÿ


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## re-peat (May 6, 2011)

josejherring @ Sat May 07 said:


> I don't. You have an opinion. I have a different one. For me. It's terrible. For you not. It's not how I was taught either. It's what I developed after years of bloodshed and tears.


You very much do, I'm afraid. From what and how you write, it was already quite clear that your viewpoint had more to do with years of bloodshed, tears and bitter frustration than with a creative approach to real musical considerations. Just about everything you mention about each of those woodwinds, the production and the performance is just so narrow-minded as well as lacking any sparkle of imaginative musical thinking, not to mention that some of it is in fact simply wrong ...

Sorry Jose, but I don't like your blasé attitude, especially as its entirely is based on painfully short-sighted, irrelevant observations and pseudo-learned fabrications. 

_


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## Joe S (May 6, 2011)

VSL


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## adg21 (May 6, 2011)

josejherring @ Sat May 07 said:


> And to piss you off even further, the clarinet is quacky and the oboe sounds too pinched. The flute player lacks a center to his/her tone. The bass clarinet is ok.


Quacky is the new wacky.
Everything has its context I guess, don't you think it has a certain charm?

I've avoided VSL most my life but this might need to change.
Thanks for the suggestions guys.



Ashermusic @ Fri May 06 said:


> and just for tone and expressiveness, the old Miroslav stuff.


I love the old Miroslav stuff.


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## Guy Bacos (May 6, 2011)

antoniopandrade @ Fri May 06 said:


> Here's a little excerpt of Debussy's La Mer that I mocked up. It shows a little bit of what you can do with VSL SE given the right tools for the job.
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/antoniopandrade/debussy-la-mer-jeux-de-vague
> 
> What do you think of the woodwinds in that context?



Good job!


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## tripit (May 6, 2011)

It does have charm, and that's what cool about it. 

It's ALL about context. 

p.s - being a snob about your chosen instrument is easy, it's a lot harder to get around that and realize what you might miss by being one.


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## José Herring (May 6, 2011)

re-peat @ Fri May 06 said:


> josejherring @ Sat May 07 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't. You have an opinion. I have a different one. For me. It's terrible. For you not. It's not how I was taught either. It's what I developed after years of bloodshed and tears.
> ...



"Blasé", "painfully short-sighted, irrelelvant observations and psuedo-learned fabrications"? nah. I'm just a better player than that. :mrgreen: That clarinet player isn't good enough to shine my shoes before a concert. I think the last time I sounded that bad I was in junior high playing on my plastic Bundy on a number 2.5 reed. And the recording, don't get me started. He should have left the sm58 on the stage. And that Oboe player, my God! Next time I go duck hunting I know who to call. The flute player, I'm sure he/she has a great time playing the penny whistle at the local pub.
/\~O 

Piet, all joking aside. I hear what you're saying. You dig the example. Good. I think it could be better. I have a hard time understanding why you're having a hard time with that.


Jose


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## José Herring (May 6, 2011)

adg21 @ Fri May 06 said:


> josejherring @ Sat May 07 said:
> 
> 
> > And to piss you off even further, the clarinet is quacky and the oboe sounds too pinched. The flute player lacks a center to his/her tone. The bass clarinet is ok.
> ...



Yes. I think it has a certain charm. But, I think the Nino Rota example I posted has more charm, is better produced, and has better players.

I'm mostly just tongue and cheek. The actual example posted is quite cute and I love woodwinds and music so much that I actually enjoyed it. But, if I were given an assignment to do something like that I would try to make it better.


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## NYC Composer (May 6, 2011)

Ashermusic @ Fri May 06 said:


> "Best" can mean so many things: most complete articulation set, most "realistic", best sounding out of the box, etc.
> 
> For me, EWQLSO and Sonivox, and just for tone and expressiveness, the old Miroslav stuff.



I have EWQLSO, and for me the winds are sort of dreadful. I have to really work at them to get them to sound sympathetic at all, so for me they're definitely not good 'out of the box'. The very basic french oboe that comes with VEP is MUCH better to my ears, limited though it may be.


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## Ashermusic (May 6, 2011)

NYC Composer @ Fri May 06 said:


> Ashermusic @ Fri May 06 said:
> 
> 
> > "Best" can mean so many things: most complete articulation set, most "realistic", best sounding out of the box, etc.
> ...



We will have to agree to disagree and my guess is that when John Graham shows up, so will he.

Oh and BTW, if you go to the EW site Craig Sharmat did a demo for them called "Platinum Fantasy" that has some nice woodwind moments.


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## NYC Composer (May 6, 2011)

Ashermusic @ Sat May 07 said:


> NYC Composer @ Fri May 06 said:
> 
> 
> > Ashermusic @ Fri May 06 said:
> ...



Gosh, both of ya?? I'm obviously wrong!


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## lux (May 6, 2011)

Its a classic Yann Tiersen sound. Pretty nice and spot on for the scope.

Its like saying that Keith Richards has an atrocious guitar sound compared to John Williams (the guitar player). Do they play Keith Richards at Lincolns?

When i was listening the Tiersen example it came in mind the Donnie Christian woodwinds examples i head many years ago, i recall they had a similar appeal. But maybe i just cant remember well.


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## lux (May 6, 2011)

Btw, while we are here, has anyone some good example of Wivi woodwinds playing staccatos?


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## noiseboyuk (May 6, 2011)

I don't hate the tone of SO, some instruments are nicer than others, some are pretty great. But it's all for nothing cos of the legato. In four notes the VEP oboe sounds infinitely more convincing than anything in SO because of it, imho.


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## lux (May 7, 2011)

Yes, legato raised the bar. Actually i cant hear exposed lines without legato and not thinking its old sounding sample-wise. Of course that changes if stuff is seriously buried inthe mix or play one-two notes.

This is an old snippet i already posted a few months ago of me attempting to apply SIPS to thee very old Dan Dean woodwinds lite edition. The woods are one of the sounds where probably an attempt with SIPS to revitalize old sounds can be done. Results may vary, but some are not completely horrible imo.

www.archisounds.net/DD_sips.mp3


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## re-peat (May 7, 2011)

josejherring @ Sat May 07 said:


> Piet, all joking aside. I hear what you're saying. You dig the example. Good. I think it could be better. I have a hard time understanding why you're having a hard time with that.


Normally, I wouldn't have, but I don't like your _"I've studied long and hard, I have an curriculum which I consider impressive enough to share, so I know best how woodwinds are supposed to sound"-_tone. To me, your curriculum and any opinion which hopes to derive weight from it, is totally meaningless. And, like I said, also completely beside the point in a thread where somebody inquires very specifically about a type of sound that obviously falls outside your range of appreciation and expertise. 

And I also think you're completely wrong in your observations on the production and the performance of the Tiersen piece. Me, I don't particularly like the music very much and I don't think it's an exceptionnal production either, but I do hear that the choice of sound, performance and production technique communicates the music in a very effective way and as such, I rate all these elements as being entirely successful. And yes, I really dig the sound of those woodwinds. I have a soft spot for these close-by, magnifying-glass-type and room-y recordings.

We all know that woodwinds, in most situations, have a totally different character and require a totally different ambience, and also should be recorded completely differently than they are in the Tiersen piece, but I don't see how or why that makes the Tiersen approach automatically 'wrong' or musically less valid. 

_


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## Joe S (May 7, 2011)

VSLs sound is not great for string, brass or perc, but it's ok for winds. 

Apparently Jose is a monster player!! Can we hear some examples? maybe a piece of yours with some live clarinet?


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## rayinstirling (May 7, 2011)

Joe S @ Sat May 07 said:


> Apparently Jose is a monster player!! Can we hear some examples? maybe a piece of yours with some live clarinet?



Having no opinion on the rights or wrongs of woodwind playing other than I like what Piet does regardless of any so called convention in technique, may I say, if you ask to see Jose's medals then perhaps you should show your own.


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## José Herring (May 7, 2011)

Joe S @ Fri May 06 said:


> VSLs sound is not great for string, brass or perc, but it's ok for winds.
> 
> Apparently Jose is a monster player!! Can we hear some examples? maybe a piece of yours with some live clarinet?



Yes to further put things off topic. You can download some pieces I recorded here:

https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1115041033/d ... 34db0ea359


And, I know what you're going to think. I'm awesome. I know. So there will be no need to state the obvious. :D 

Actually I'm just having fun. I hope you enjoy the pieces. And, I hope this topic finds it's way back in the near future.

And, I dare anybody to try and mimic my playing with VSL!!! o=< 

Oh, and if the above Saint Sans is too romantic for you hard at heart, I've also got some Poulenc that I've recorded that I can send you via email. It's about time these recordings got heard some other place besides my mother's living room. 

So in all sincerity if you'd like the full recordings of the Saint Sans or the Poulenc just let me know and I can email them to you.

ml,

Jose


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## lux (May 7, 2011)

Jose, in all sicerity the only one who put this thread in an off-topic fashion is you, when you introduced an unnecessary curriculum to strenghten up a simple opinion.


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## muk (May 7, 2011)

To me the Xsample woodwinds are really great. There's an old thread about woodwind libs with some really great comparison-files from Hannes. You can find it here:
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtop ... sc&start=0


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## Rob (May 7, 2011)

I see nobody mentioned wivi woodwinds, which are in reality capable of excellent things!


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## Stephen Baysted (May 7, 2011)

Joe S @ Sat May 07 said:


> VSLs sound is not great for string, brass or perc, but it's ok for winds.


 
:roll: Yeah definitely not great, never get used on Film, TV or games because they're just so bad. And I'm sure they feel happy in the knowledge that you think their woodwind is 'ok' though.


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## doubleattack (May 7, 2011)

josejherring @ Sat 07 May said:


> lux @ Sat May 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Jose, in all sicerity the only one who put this thread in an off-topic fashion is you, when you introduced an unnecessary curriculum to strenghten up a simple opinion. Thing that most people here avoid to do, which i personally find tasteful enough.
> ...



That's a great misunderstanding of a well reasoned conception by Y. Tiersen regarding the composition and the implementation in the recording. I want to allude only the very different styles of playing - the "solo" clarinet (to speak so) is playing in a almost "clezmer" style against the very rhythmical basic of bassclarinet and bassoon and these is really a nice musical mirror of what's happen in this film.
The touch of "students from the local university" is a part of the whole music conception of "Good bye Lenin" - a comedy which the music is made for. 
(BTW - it s e e m s quite easy to play - it doesn't! The same is true for Tiersen Piano works in "Amelie" - almost every music schoolboy is playing these here in germany, but rarely of them get it.
And:
These version for the woodwinds is only a arrangement variation of the same piece, if you interested listen to - "The Deutschmark is coming" from the whole soundtrack of "Good bye, Lenin") 
Sorry for my poor english and for beeing off-topic, but couldn't resist to try to explain these "cultural misunderstandings".

Frank


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## Ashermusic (May 7, 2011)

It would be nice if just once we could have this kind of discussion without people getting their knickers in a wad and attacking people personally because someone makes a negative comment about a sound or type of music they like.

This stuff is not sacrosanct.


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## lux (May 7, 2011)

neither a curriculum is


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## Ashermusic (May 7, 2011)

lux @ Sat May 07 said:


> neither a curriculum is



No, but personal attacks should be off the table, period.


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## dedersen (May 7, 2011)

Slightly off topic, I guess, but I really love the VSL SE woodwinds. Excellent tone, and the legato is brilliant. Somehow the woodwind section seems to suffer less from some of the problems that I think the other VSL libraries have in terms of sound. I find it quite easy to mold the sound of the VSL woods the way I want them, and to place them quite well in settings with other libraries.


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## SergeD (May 7, 2011)

M. Tiersen may has been inspired by M. Cosma who is at his best to demonstrate the absurdity of a situation with a sense of humor. That is the purpose of music. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm4HE1CEtCM


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## antoniopandrade (May 7, 2011)

I think that what's so great about VSL is the fact that the legato articulations are so flexible. In the demo I posted, I didn't have any trill articulations, and just simulated them all with fast legato transition notes. Of course it would sound more authentic with the actual recording of trills/runs, but if you're running a tight budget, the VSL SE stuff is really a lot of bang for your buck.

And I really think the strings/brass are undervalued given some current libraries. With the right reverb/placement and mixing (which you just have to figure out once, and then it's done with) the strings/brass and winds sound beautifully expressive (especially the chamber strings, I love those).

On the risk of seemingly hawking my work, I'd like to showcase some more VSL stuff that I used, this time with less intricate reverb settings (I really didn't know much about reverb "theory" back when I wrote this cue).

http://soundcloud.com/antoniopandrade/funeral-cue-final-mix

one big advantage of VSL is their player, which is very effective, funtional and low on processing power. I really think that if people spend more than 2 seconds going through the patches that they will find the VSL stuff to be very effective.


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## Stevie (May 7, 2011)

Vladimir Cosma est génial


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## SergeD (May 8, 2011)

Stevie @ Sat May 07 said:


> Vladimir Cosma est génial



Beaucoup de talent et très versatile. Malheureusement il semble peu connu.


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## Stevie (May 8, 2011)

Yep, only a few know him. He's an insider tip, though  
(switching back to english so that the others can follow)


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## bdr (May 8, 2011)

SergeD @ Mon May 09 said:


> Stevie @ Sat May 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Vladimir Cosma est génial
> ...



One of my favourite pieces from my teenage years. A beautiful scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN_8qFinDBM


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## Stevie (May 8, 2011)

Just beautiful *speechless*


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## Joe S (May 8, 2011)

Didn't mean to insult VSL. I just like the winds more than the Rest. AND you completely misunderstood about the Jose clarinet examples. I just wanted to hear some examples of good clarinet. Make music not war.


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## adg21 (May 8, 2011)

Joe S @ Sun May 08 said:


> Make music not war.


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## Stevie (May 8, 2011)

Okay, now we are completely OT :lol:


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## Mahlon (May 9, 2011)

> On the risk of seemingly hawking my work, I'd like to showcase some more VSL stuff that I used, this time with less intricate reverb settings (I really didn't know much about reverb "theory" back when I wrote this cue).
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/antoniopandrade/f ... -final-mix



Excellent again!

M.


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## Mahlon (May 9, 2011)

antoniopandrade @ Fri May 06 said:


> Here's a little excerpt of Debussy's La Mer that I mocked up. It shows a little bit of what you can do with VSL SE given the right tools for the job.
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/antoniopandrade/debussy-la-mer-jeux-de-vague
> 
> What do you think of the woodwinds in that context?



Excellent!

Mahlon


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## Stephen Baysted (May 9, 2011)

Mike Connelly @ Mon May 09 said:


> Rousseau @ Sat May 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah definitely not great, never get used on Film, TV or games because they're just so bad.
> ...



No Mike, but on the other hand, the fact that VSL's reach into film, TV and games is very long and consistently delivering suggests that their sound meets certain people's expectations. God forbid anyone had to tweak some EQ settings or add reverb. I mean, that'd take at least 5 minutes. 

What I think is that some people _still_ misunderstand the 'silent stage' concept and have never used the full extended DVD libraries.

Cheers


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## José Herring (May 9, 2011)

Mike Connelly @ Mon May 09 said:


> NYC Composer @ Fri May 06 said:
> 
> 
> > I have EWQLSO, and for me the winds are sort of dreadful. I have to really work at them to get them to sound sympathetic at all, so for me they're definitely not good 'out of the box'. The very basic french oboe that comes with VEP is MUCH better to my ears, limited though it may be.
> ...



The EW woodwinds seem to work best in the context that they where intended for imo. The seem to work well for me when in the context of the orchestra. I've only used EW Gold, but I'm pretty sure it's the same for Platinum. Soloing the woodwinds in exposed lines doesn't seem to work as well. Perhaps I'll feel differently if I ever do get Platinum but I've heard a lot of work done with Plat and I've had the same impression.

VSL woodwinds seem to be the opposite. They work best soloed but for me at least seem nearly impossible to get a good ensemble sound out of them. I've heard some real impressive solo work done with VSL winds. And, there was a guy, Psyclone, (I think his screen name is) that has mastered the VSL player and can do some really impressive work with just one track.

The Sonic Implants have the best tone of them all, but as others have mentioned you'll be limited in what you can do, basic short notes and sustains. Not to mentioned that Sonic Implants is over priced for what you're getting these days. I sure hope that someday they step up to the plate and release a new library.

Jose


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## Mike Connelly (May 9, 2011)

Rousseau @ Mon May 09 said:


> No Mike, but on the other hand, the fact that VSL's reach into film, TV and games is very long and consistently delivering suggests that their sound meets certain people's expectations.



Sure, I'm just saying that in the case of TV there are libraries far worse than VSL used. Expectations can be practically nonexistent, so in general I'd say it's not necessarily saying much. It's like defending a certain kind of beef because it's sold at McDonalds.

And I don't think it's a case of misunderstanding the silent stage as understanding it but not liking the results (or agreeing with the reasoning behind it), just a matter of opinion.


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## dinerdog (May 9, 2011)

+1 for Diva and Vladimir Cosma. One of the all time greats.


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## NYC Composer (May 9, 2011)

Mike Connelly @ Mon May 09 said:


> NYC Composer @ Fri May 06 said:
> 
> 
> > I have EWQLSO, and for me the winds are sort of dreadful. I have to really work at them to get them to sound sympathetic at all, so for me they're definitely not good 'out of the box'. The very basic french oboe that comes with VEP is MUCH better to my ears, limited though it may be.
> ...



I find the bassoon very hard to get a good sound out of as well....again, in any sort of exposed setting.


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## Ashermusic (May 9, 2011)

Mike Connelly @ Mon May 09 said:


> e
> 
> So now "used on TV" is the criteria whether a sample library is great?



The problem arises when people start trying to apply objective criteria to justify their taste to what is by definition a subjective issue. If you like it and it works for you, it works for you, and if not, then not.


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## andreasOL (May 9, 2011)

Hi

well, with a certain personal concern (some know why...), how does Westgate play in the league of woodwinds?

regards,
Andreas


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## LTSF (Feb 15, 2012)

andreasOL @ Mon May 09 said:


> Hi
> 
> well, with a certain personal concern (some know why...), how does Westgate play in the league of woodwinds?
> 
> ...



I would also like to know.


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## Erik (Feb 16, 2012)

Hi,
There is some http://eotte.blogspot.com/2012/01/woodwinds-and-last-time-brahms.html (material for comparison for the woodwinds available) on my blog.
VSL, Westgate and WIVI.

I hope that this will be helpfull.

There is more to come on the subject of woodwinds on this blog btw.


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## ed buller (Feb 16, 2012)

After quite lengthy research i've gone for VSL WOODWINDS 1 & 2 Extended. They sound fantastic. And if you have cubase and use the expression maps.............it's wonderful


ed


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## FriFlo (Feb 16, 2012)

Ouch! Some of the clarinet notes from VSL stick out really nasty. Isn't there a way to avoid this?


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## Erik (Feb 16, 2012)

as promised.....http://eotte.blogspot.com/2012/02/woodwinds-and-brass-in-mozart.html (Mozart this time).

Westgate and WIVI (and Session Strings Pro)


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## reddognoyz (Feb 16, 2012)

CineWoods will be the go to I think


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## LTSF (Mar 24, 2012)

josejherring @ Mon May 09 said:


> The Sonic Implants have the best tone of them all, but as others have mentioned you'll be limited in what you can do, basic short notes and sustains. Not to mentioned that Sonic Implants is over priced for what you're getting these days. I sure hope that someday they step up to the plate and release a new library.


Since they have periodic sales at 75% off, would you recommend them at 250? That's probably going to be a lot cheaper than the upcoming woodwind libraries.


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## Sam (Mar 24, 2012)

antoniopandrade @ Fri May 06 said:


> http://soundcloud.com/antoniopandrade/debussy-la-mer-jeux-de-vague
> 
> What do you think of the woodwinds in that context?



Great ^>|


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## Cinesamples (Mar 24, 2012)

Standby...


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## dannthr (Mar 24, 2012)

WIVI always sounds like the reeds are too hard and the playing is thick.

Yes, I said hard and thick in the same sentence.


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## adg21 (Mar 31, 2012)

CineSamples @ Sun Mar 25 said:


> Standby...



ETA?


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## LTSF (Apr 5, 2012)

adg21 @ Sat Mar 31 said:


> CineSamples @ Sun Mar 25 said:
> 
> 
> > Standby...
> ...


I would also like to know.


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## synthetic (Apr 5, 2012)

I have Sonic Implants, Westgate and (old) VSL woodwinds. I usually use the Westgate ones, they have a "woodier" sound than the SI to me, as well as being true legato. VSL is a distant third, I've never liked their bright, present sound. 

But I'm holding out for Cinewinds, if it's anything like Cinebrass then that's a no-brainer for me.


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## LTSF (Apr 5, 2012)

synthetic @ Thu Apr 05 said:


> I usually use the Westgate ones, they have a "woodier" sound than the SI to me.


Really? I thought it was the other way around. Erik had a bunch of demos on his site, but alas he doesn't own the SI Woodwinds. Do you have any personal demos of them?

Thank you.


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## synthetic (Apr 6, 2012)

Westgate is sold by Big Fish Audio now, check their site for demos. 

As for personal demos, I know that this used Westgate flute. Someone wrote a great script for Westgate winds. The ones you buy don't have a mod wheel crossfade on the legato instrument, but look on the Kontakt section and someone built a nice one. And they're very affordable.

But seriously, wait for Cinewinds before you invest in anything else. I know I am.


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## EastWest Lurker (Apr 6, 2012)

Needless to say (and yet I will say it  I am anxiously awaiting EW's upcoming Woodwinds.


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## LTSF (Apr 6, 2012)

synthetic @ Fri Apr 06 said:


> Westgate is sold by Big Fish Audio now, check their site for demos.
> 
> As for personal demos, I know that this used Westgate flute. Someone wrote a great script for Westgate winds. The ones you buy don't have a mod wheel crossfade on the legato instrument, but look on the Kontakt section and someone built a nice one. And they're very affordable.
> 
> But seriously, wait for Cinewinds before you invest in anything else. I know I am.


I was actually asking for demos for the SI winds.

This demo on Sonivox.com sounds "woodier" than the Westgate winds. But I'm not sure if they do in fact use their own winds. (because their strings were released before their woodwinds) I was looking for an independent and impartial presentation of the winds from Sonivox.

http://demos.sonivoxmi.com/sonicimplantssymphonicprincewilliam.mp3 (http://demos.sonivoxmi.com/sonicimplant ... illiam.mp3)


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## synapse21 (Apr 6, 2012)

The EWQLSO woodwinds are out of tune on some of the solo instruments, which when playing in unison with one or more others, is really noticeable.

I think it's one of the legato contrabassoon patches that has a pretty egregiously-loud, vibrato-heavy sample in one of the dynamic layers, on certain notes...always surprises me when it plays back!

I'm glad this thread's here - I need to look into new woods. I can't wait to hear the Mikes' CineWinds when that's out.

- Rodney


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## Goran (Apr 9, 2012)

Vienna Symphonic Library, by far.


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