# Netflix and 432Hz - every TV series I've checked is at 432?



## Steve_Karl (Oct 27, 2019)

Sorry, I know it's been done to death but this isn't about all of the conspiracy stuff.
It's just that I'm hearing almost every modern TV series on Netflix being tuned to 432 Hz.
Actually, I haven't yet found one that isn't.

I've got my PianoTeq Piano running in Sonar on one monitor and playing along with NetFlix TV series
"House of Cards" (cudos to Jeff Beal ... very cool scoring)
and I need to tune the piano to 432 to match the music.
so, I also just checked about 30 more 2019 and 2018 TV shows in the Netflix preview (on a PC and in a Browser)
and every one of them was at 432 Hz.

So what's the deal with this?

Can someone else please verify so that I'm not thinking it's possibly my rig?

Thanks!


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## Steve_Karl (Oct 29, 2019)

What ... nobody has Netfix and can make a comment?


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## d.healey (Oct 29, 2019)

Isn't this something to do with the framerate on playback. I seem to recall something similar if you listen to a soundtrack album and then listen to the music in the movie there will be tuning differences too.


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## PeterBaumann (Oct 29, 2019)

I just checked House of Cards using Chrome and recording the audio into Logic - all seems to play back fine. Bass opening is A to C and I can play along with that and the trumpet tune no problem without having to detune anything.


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## StefanoM (Oct 29, 2019)

Its a normal process of " pull up or pull down" , it is not a " 432 hz " tuning. Its a format conversion between different video standard: 25, 24, 29.97 drop frames , 30 fps , etc, these conversions change the original tune.


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## MartinH. (Oct 29, 2019)

Netflix are working on a 1.5x playback speed option without pitch change. maybe you could convince them to offer a switch between 432hz and 440hz, using that same tech . 









About Netflix - Player Control Tests






media.netflix.com


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## I like music (Oct 29, 2019)

Your piano's at 448! Someone in your family, or close circle of friends, manually tuned your libraries up one night.


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## ptram (Oct 29, 2019)

It depends on the planet you are on. If it's on Flat Earth, tuning is flat.

Paolo


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## Steve_Karl (Oct 29, 2019)

StefanoM said:


> Its a normal process of " pull up or pull down" , it is not a " 432 hz " tuning. Its a format conversion between different video standard: 25, 24, 29.97 drop frames , 30 fps , etc, these conversions change the original tune.



In that case wouldn't we'd be seeing it also and hearing it in the voices of the actors?


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## Steve_Karl (Oct 29, 2019)

PeterBaumann said:


> I just checked House of Cards using Chrome and recording the audio into Logic - all seems to play back fine. Bass opening is A to C and I can play along with that and the trumpet tune no problem without having to detune anything.



Thanks for checking.


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## Steve_Karl (Oct 29, 2019)

d.healey said:


> Isn't this something to do with the framerate on playback. I seem to recall something similar if you listen to a soundtrack album and then listen to the music in the movie there will be tuning differences too.



Interesting. I wish I had a soundtrack CD to make a comparison.


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## d.healey (Oct 29, 2019)

Steve_Karl said:


> Interesting. I wish I had a soundtrack CD to make a comparison.



Well you have youtube. Compare these two


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## d.healey (Oct 29, 2019)

Steve_Karl said:


> In that case wouldn't we'd be seeing it also and hearing it in the voices of the actors?


You probably are. Do you have a separate dialog track to compare against?


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## Steve_Karl (Oct 29, 2019)

d.healey said:


> You probably are. Do you have a separate dialog track to compare against?



No. No separate dialog track.

I have a Roku Stick also at the same location and can switch between that and the PC.
Maybe I'll try a comparison there.

Yea. Just did a quick listen and they sound the same.
I can't verify the Roku stick by re-tuning my piano to it but at the ears they sound the same.

Anyway, it's no big deal.
I suspect everyone here is telling me the tracks aren't tuned to 432 so my question is answered.
No need to figure it out any further, but your thoughts are always welcome.

Thank you!


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## StefanoM (Oct 29, 2019)

Steve_Karl said:


> In that case wouldn't we'd be seeing it also and hearing it in the voices of the actors?



No, not always, because in this case the pull up or pull down are conversions made during the audio post production. The Pull Up or Pull Down Usually are conversions for example, made during the process of ADR or other adaptations for other languages and country. For example from USA to EUROPE , etc.

But this is not necessarily the problem for this question.

It could be, but not necessarily. Maybe in this case the nature of this "tuning" could be different.


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## Steve_Karl (Oct 29, 2019)

Thanks StefanoM


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## VinRice (Nov 19, 2019)

US or US financed shows are often shot at 24fps (or 23.9 something, something), but are broadcast at 25fps in the UK and Europe. Helpfully 60fps sports/news isn't broadcast at 50fps in EU 'cos that would be comedy gold. Spendy real-time conversion required for the NFL etc. Online they can playback at anything depending on the platform. Just lets all thank God we don't have to deal with interlacing anymore.

Come to think of it, I don't think I've actually watched anything broadcast to a TV for several years.


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## Fredeke (Nov 19, 2019)

d.healey said:


> Isn't this something to do with the framerate on playback. I seem to recall something similar if you listen to a soundtrack album and then listen to the music in the movie there will be tuning differences too.


As @VinRice said: in the days of PAL TV, VHS and DVDs, 24fps film was sped up 4% to match the European video standard's 25fps/50Hz. So the tuning would become 457.6 Hz. But I don't think they do this anymore, because HD video can be any frame rate. (Am I right?)


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## Steve_Karl (Nov 19, 2019)

Fredeke said:


> HD video can be any frame rate. (Am I right?)



Well, I just did a quick test and rendered a short 1920x1080 clip from Vegas Pro 9 at both 23.976 and 29.(what ever it is) and the audio was the same in both.
So my guess is, yea, it can be any frame rate. Which makes me think of "Saving Private Ryan" and the high frame rate footage on the beach. But the delivery copies sent to theatres, they're probably all the same delivery frame rate, what ever that would happen to be.


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## Fredeke (Nov 19, 2019)

Steve_Karl said:


> Well, I just did a quick test and rendered a short 1920x1080 clip from Vegas Pro 9 at both 23.976 and 29.(what ever it is) and the audio was the same in both.
> So my guess is, yea, it can be any frame rate. Which makes me think of "Saving Private Ryan" and the high frame rate footage on the beach. But the delivery copies sent to theatres, they're probably all the same delivery frame rate, what ever that would happen to be.



Of course in the case of your experiment, the audio would be the same. There would be no reason for it to be different: one second of sound corresponds to one second of picture, no matter into how many frames that second of picture is sliced.

In Saving Private Ryan, they did whatever frame rate wizzardry they did on the picture, but edited the sound separately, and cared that the sound edit would match the picture in the final product.

I was specifically discussing the case were a movie or a show is already a final product, with its sound mix synced to the picture. Then you would speed up or slow down the whole thing - that means speeding up or slowing down the sound by the same factor as the picture in order to keep them in sync. One reason to do that would be to match a given medium's fixed frame rate: if it's close enough to the original (final product's) rate, a speed change looks better than duplicating/dropping/interpolating frames. (And of course you could time-stretch the sound, but again, if the difference in speed is minimal, a mere change in pitch sounds better.)

Anyway, this was more relevant to analog video. This Netflix case may have nothing to do with it.


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## VinRice (Nov 20, 2019)

Steve_Karl said:


> Well, I just did a quick test and rendered a short 1920x1080 clip from Vegas Pro 9 at both 23.976 and 29.(what ever it is) and the audio was the same in both.
> So my guess is, yea, it can be any frame rate. Which makes me think of "Saving Private Ryan" and the high frame rate footage on the beach. But the delivery copies sent to theatres, they're probably all the same delivery frame rate, what ever that would happen to be.



Well that's not going to make any difference is it mate! Render it out at 30fps and then _play it back_ at 24fps. (or vice versa). 

Thankfully this is all somewhat academic these days.


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## gsilbers (Nov 20, 2019)

Fredeke said:


> As @VinRice said: in the days of PAL TV, VHS and DVDs, 24fps film was sped up 4% to match the European video standard's 25fps/50Hz. So the tuning would become 457.6 Hz. But I don't think they do this anymore, because HD video can be any frame rate. (Am I right?)



They still do. Studios send EU broadcasters the 23.98 or 1080/50i (pal timed) and they use it for the dubbing w everything in pal speed
The the studio gets back the audio so they can stream it or sell it to other broadcasters, so they turn it into 23.98 (ntsc timed). Some studios specs say to re pitch and retime it others don’t.


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## gsilbers (Nov 20, 2019)

Steve_Karl said:


> Well, I just did a quick test and rendered a short 1920x1080 clip from Vegas Pro 9 at both 23.976 and 29.(what ever it is) and the audio was the same in both.
> So my guess is, yea, it can be any frame rate. Which makes me think of "Saving Private Ryan" and the high frame rate footage on the beach. But the delivery copies sent to theatres, they're probably all the same delivery frame rate, what ever that would happen to be.




that’s one thing that tripped me off a long time ago. Frame rate is always the same.... frames per second. It’s in the name 
No matter what FPS it is, it’s always going to be one second  so that will travel the same for us audio guys.


The FPS is about the numbers used as names in a post prod culture. 25fps means pal SPEED. 23.98 means NTSC SPEED which is the same as 29.976.
And then there is FILM speed normally associated with 24fps. We deal w 3 different speeds in audio regardless of frame rates. A few caveats of course like drop frame will change after or drop after a while (some seconds) and random things like pal-m which pal video at ntsc speed. But don’t assume that all 25fps material is pal and 23.98 is always ntsc speed. You can force convert anything to anything on video but we have standardized the ones we talk about .

the most difficult part is getting a 24fps vídeo and making sure it’s 23.98 or true 24. As thosecould have different speeds if the video guys doesn’t know how to output correctly .


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