# Synths That Get No Love.



## tressie5 (Apr 26, 2022)

Growing up, I was THAT KID that got ignored, the outsider always looking in. By default, I reached out to other kids who were also outcasts, fringe dwellers as it were. It's probably why, to this day, I happily embrace synths that time has cruelly made impotent. Which synths? Seaweed Audio's Fathom, Ozcan's Genesis Pro, SPC's ArcSyn, 2nd Sense's Wiggle, Audjoo's Helix, Dmitry Sches's Diversion, LinPlug's CRx4, Ocean Swift's OSS Enterprise, SoloStuff SoloRack, Audiaire's Zone, OT Genesyn, and a few others. 

Demoing them, I scratched my head wondering, "Hey, this doesn't sound half bad. How come this failed while Sylenth1, Serum, Zebra, Spire, Pigments, Diva, etc prospered?" As an ambient artist, I find their various plucks, pads, basses, arpeggiators and tweakability immensely useful. Then again, maybe it's just me.


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## RobbertZH (Apr 26, 2022)

Another developer of synth plugin's I have never hear mentioned on vi-control is Tone2.
I have ElectraX 2 and Icarus 2 from them. Electra X has a lot of different synth engines and is therefore most flexible. Icarus is based on FM synthesis. 

Now I am a preset guy (rather then building sounds myself). Happily both come with lots of great and varied sounds. 

You can download demos of all synths on the Tone2 website with all presets included, so you can hear for yourself if they are what you are searching for. Load and play them in your DAW, but *not* in the standalone app. Because strangly enough the sustain pedal works as you expect when playing in your DAW, while sounds abort abruptly when you play the same in the standalone app.

https://www.tone2.com/electra2.html



https://www.tone2.com/icarus.html



At the bottom of these webpages you see review conclusions of (e-)magazines like Computer Music, Keys and Sound Bytes.


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## José Herring (Apr 26, 2022)

All of Tone 2 stuff is amazing. Forgotten in the digital dust bin. 

Imposcar by GForce. Totally forgotten at this point. 

I think some of these may become revived like classic synths that time forgot like The Cat synth or something. I've often thought about just dedicating a whole machine to old synths like Devine Machine's Krishna which was the first or second real softsynth I bought. Before that there was Reason's Thor. Scored so many movies with Thor until I finally got Krishna and MPowersynth, which is another overlooked gem. But, Thor is so deep that I never even learned to use all the modules before moving on and I used the synth since its release in 2004 I believe.
Here's demo of this old forgotten classic.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 26, 2022)

Cool post. OceanSwift! Thanks for reminding me. Didn’t they make all lof their stuff free a year ago?


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## cedricm (Apr 26, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> Growing up, I was THAT KID that got ignored, the outsider always looking in. By default, I reached out to other kids who were also outcasts, fringe dwellers as it were. It's probably why, to this day, I happily embrace synths that time has cruelly made impotent. Which synths? Seaweed Audio's Fathom, Ozcan's Genesis Pro, SPC's ArcSyn, 2nd Sense's Wiggle, Audjoo's Helix, Dmitry Sches's Diversion, LinPlug's CRx4, Ocean Swift's OSS Enterprise, SoloStuff SoloRack, Audiaire's Zone, OT Genesyn, and a few others.
> 
> Demoing them, I scratched my head wondering, "Hey, this doesn't sound half bad. How come this failed while Sylenth1, Serum, Zebra, Spire, Pigments, Diva, etc prospered?" As an ambient artist, I find their various plucks, pads, basses, arpeggiators and tweakability immensely useful. Then again, maybe it's just me.


I do like Wiggle and other synths.

I guess I've decided to learn Falcon in-depth before I learn other synths in depth, due to time constraints. Other musicians probably choose Serum or Diva for the same reason, and because there are so many patches and tutorials available.


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## tressie5 (Apr 27, 2022)

Also (and I'm guessing here), the three Waves synths (Flow Motion, Element and Codex) have been abolished to Synth Leper Island, never to be heard from again, in favour of their more handsome and popular brethren. Sigh. Breaks my heart.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 27, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> Also (and I'm guessing here), the three Waves synths (Flow Motion, Element and Codex) have been abolished to Synth Leper Island, never to be heard from again, in favour of their more handsome and popular brethren. Sigh. Breaks my heart.


Hold on - as a huge Flow Motion fan I can proudly claim at least I mention it regularly in the FM Synths thread 

But I have grown cautious to even mention Waves because it is root cause #1 for uninvited tribalism haha, so I get your point.

Not a synth: but the Waves EP and clavinet instruments and their bass guitars are equally great.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 27, 2022)

Another great synth: AIR Loom II. And I also love Vacuum Pro.


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## José Herring (Apr 27, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Another great synth: AIR Loom II. And I also love Vacuum Pro.


Vacuum Pro. I bought it years ago and it's still sitting in my Plugin Boutique out basket. I will now download it.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 27, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Vacuum Pro. I bought it years ago and it's still sitting in my Plugin Boutique out basket. I will now download it.


Cool. Let us know. It emulates… valves in a synth. Sound familiar?


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## doctoremmet (Apr 27, 2022)

Other leper synths: Rob Papen Go2 and Pluginboutique’s Carbon Electra. Both have a couple of unique features that I wish other synths had.


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## José Herring (Apr 27, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Cool. Let us know. It emulates… valves in a synth. Sound familiar?


It's really cool sounding! Not a lot of bass but putting a little saturation on it it beefs up nicely. Also, the low pass filter dial is a rheostat type dial. Woah, never even seen that before.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 27, 2022)

It has a distinctive sound that I have been able to succesfully deploy on a number of electronic tracks over the years. It is maybe a bit mid-rang-y, that seems a fair assessment. But it has a weird appeal. It’s a noisy gritty little bugger.


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## TomislavEP (Apr 27, 2022)

I have always wondered why synths from AIR don't receive more love in general. Maybe due to their historic ties with the PT ecosystem. Sound and feature-wise they might not be "cutting edge", but they are certainly polished and well-rounded products that shouldn't be ignored. Also, they have a certain simplicity and compactness which is sometimes lacking in other more hailed VI's.

On the other hand, I must say that I have also forgotten about my AIR products collection in favor of Komplete these days, but mostly because I prefer not to have so many options to choose from.


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## sean8877 (Apr 27, 2022)

I just picked up Disco DSP Discovery Pro after reading a thread here on VI-Control about it. I'd never heard of it before that but holy moly what a great sounding synth.


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## MLaudio (Apr 27, 2022)

It may not be considered "that" underrated, but i don't see much talk about DS Thorn. I love Rapid, Dune 3 and Europa, but something about Thorn just yields such good results so quick. The Harmonic filter is unique and a lot of fun. 

Id say its my favorite synth to build patches for.


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## HeliaVox (Apr 28, 2022)

MLaudio said:


> It may not be considered "that" underrated, but i don't see much talk about DS Thorn. I love Rapid, Dune 3 and Europa, but something about Thorn just yields such good results so quick. The Harmonic filter is unique and a lot of fun.
> 
> Id say its my favorite synth to build patches for.


Still waiting for an M1 native version though.


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## MLaudio (Apr 28, 2022)

HeliaVox said:


> Still waiting for an M1 native version though.


I thought last time I looked at the change log it had native support. I’m still on a 2018 w/ Catalina so I haven’t payed much attention.


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## storyteller (Apr 28, 2022)

I was going to say *AIR Vacuum Pro* as well. But I see it has been mentioned.

The other must-have is *AIR Hybrid 3*. FWIW, years ago, my big holdup converting from Protools over to any other DAW was that Avid had exclusivity on Air plugins. When they released those as VST, it was adios to Pro Tools.

If you dig through the entire AIR package, you can create some really great sounds with Xpand. Also AIR Filter Gate is crazy good for turning pads into pulses.


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## R10k (Apr 28, 2022)

HeliaVox said:


> Still waiting for an M1 native version though.


The latest from PA is native. If I'm wrong about that, apparently you can email the dev and he'll send it to you.

And yes, love Thorn!


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## jbuhler (Apr 28, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Vacuum Pro. I bought it years ago and it's still sitting in my Plugin Boutique out basket. I will now download it.


That's some delay you put on that purchase.


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## KEM (Apr 29, 2022)

Gladiator by Tone2 was big during the early 2010s right before Serum really took off but now it’s completely faded into the ether, I still think it’s legendary just because it was one of the very first synths I’d ever heard of when I started making music so it’s always had a mystique to it

As of recent years I’d say Ana2, even though it’s part of the Slate bundle I don’t really see anyone talking about it but it is very good especially for trance and acid stuff


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## doctoremmet (Apr 29, 2022)

Winter last year I finally caved and bought Halion 6. I was amazed how good some of the synths built in that engine sound. The wavetable stuff just sounds incredibly good. It’s weird how popularity (as a phenomenon) works really, but I don’t think it necessarily has a lot to do with actual quality. Not saying popular products are of inferior quality, but rather that intrinsic quality of a synth does not imply it is going to be popular.


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## simfoe (Apr 29, 2022)

ANA2. It's great, and honestly not that expensive if you'd rather buy it outright instead of subscribing to Slate Digital.


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## el-bo (Apr 29, 2022)

MLaudio said:


> It may not be considered "that" underrated, but i don't see much talk about DS Thorn. I love Rapid, Dune 3 and Europa, but something about Thorn just yields such good results so quick. The Harmonic filter is unique and a lot of fun.
> 
> Id say its my favorite synth to build patches for.


Thorn is great! Fantastic for plucks and leads. But it’s a lot more flexible than that, especially ‘cause of the ability to import noise samples:









DS Thorn bundle: 3 packs, 147 presets, 30% discount - emptyvessel


All three packs for Dmitry Sches Thorn.147 presets in total, many based on original sample content and wavetables.Most patches are noisy, wonky, randomly glitchy and dirty or just subtly dusty. Both cold, digital sounds and dark, warm, expansive pads are included with a lot of movement and evolving




store.emptyvessel.co.nz





As for the premise of the thread? You may be right. But I'd say it depends on where you're looking. The members of VI-C definitely have love for synths, but the more obscure stuff is likely to get less traction, here, than for example over at KVR. I think if you were to start the same thread over there, you’d get more agreement regarding your examples.


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## Crossroads (Apr 29, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Winter last year I finally caved and bought Halion 6. I was amazed how good some of the synths built in that engine sound. The wavetable stuff just sounds incredibly good. It’s weird how popularity (as a phenomenon) works really, but I don’t think it necessarily has a lot to do with actual quality. Not saying popular products are of inferior quality, but rather that intrinsic quality of a synth does not imply it is going to be popular.



Halion is my favourite synth of all time, it sounds crazy good! The wavetable stuff goes insanely deep, moreso than any other synth I've ever seen. It's granular engine and sampling engine is also second to none.

It's popularity is also due to it's complexity, I think. If anything, it has too many features. It can do too much (not for me but, for some people that is truly a thing). It's not a get up and go synth, and requires some extensive studying.

It's also kind of overdue for a version 7, however. I'm pretty sure they will blow it out of the water again.

Say what you will about Steinberg, but they have a world class team of plugin creators.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 29, 2022)

Crossroads said:


> Halion is my favourite synth of all time, it sounds crazy good! The wavetable stuff goes insanely deep, moreso than any other synth I've ever seen. It's granular engine and sampling engine is also second to none.
> 
> It's kind of overdue for a version 7, however. I'm pretty sure they will blow it out of the water again.
> 
> Say what you will about Steinberg, but they have a world class team of plugin creators.


The sampler is insane. I have recorded / sampled my Rhodes in Halion and it was such a smooth and incredibly well thought-out workflow. And indeed the sound quality is terrific, world class indeed.

I am curious about Halion 7. I don’t know if it was you, but someone posted a screenshot in the Absolute 5 thread yesterday with a Halion 7 icon - so who knows. Apparently it will add FM synthesis. But for now Halion 6 is still relatively new to me and absolutely delivers.


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## Pier (Apr 29, 2022)

KEM said:


> As of recent years I’d say Ana2, even though it’s part of the Slate bundle I don’t really see anyone talking about it but it is very good especially for trance and acid stuff


I sold my ANA2 license yesterday 😂

It has some cool features but I never really liked its sound.


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## muziksculp (Apr 29, 2022)

Some of my favorite Synths that don't get much mention/attention. 

Xils Lab : PolyM
Tone2 : Nemesis
TAL Audio : TAL-Mod , TAL-J8
AAS : Ultra Analog VA-3 , Strum GS-2


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## Pier (Apr 29, 2022)

Crossroads said:


> Say what you will about Steinberg, but they have a world class team of plugin creators.


Yeah but they really need to improve their GUI game. Just like NI, Steinberg still has a lot of stuff it needs to bring up to the year 2022.

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if many of the plugins mentioned in this thread were ignored because of their terrible GUI (non scalable, ugly, low dpi, etc).


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## SupremeFist (Apr 29, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Some of my favorite Synths that don't get much mention/attention.
> 
> Xils Lab : PolyM
> Tone2 : Nemesis
> ...


Love the Tal J-8!


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## doctoremmet (Apr 29, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Some of my favorite Synths that don't get much mention/attention.
> 
> Xils Lab : PolyM
> Tone2 : Nemesis
> ...


Love VA-3. But you’re right


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## MartinH. (Apr 29, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> Growing up, I was THAT KID that got ignored, the outsider always looking in. By default, I reached out to other kids who were also outcasts, fringe dwellers as it were. It's probably why, to this day, I happily embrace synths that time has cruelly made impotent.


First of all, sorry to hear that! School years can be a cruel roll of the dice.


As far as forgotten synths go, my first proper plugin purchase must have been Albino 3 I think. It almost never gets mentioned around here. Which is a shame in my opinion because I think it has some really good presets in its library. I just got a small shock reading it supposedly doesn't work under windows 10 but I just checked and it seems fine at first glance. I did find a fun mention of it though: 






Fs: Albino 3 Linplug rare plugin


Linplug ALBINO 3, hard to find VI, transfer approved by Linplug. Product is discontinued , I use 10.9 OSX all fine with latest version which you will download from Linplug upon transfer and payment. This is one of those rare hard to find plugs which is an absolute classic. I don't use it...




vi-control.net





_"This is one of those rare hard to find plugs which is an absolute classic."_

I think that qualifies it to be a true vintage plugin I believe


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## Paj (Apr 29, 2022)

Adding: SugarBytes stuff like Aparillo, Obscurium, Factory. They go from "Are we there yet?" to "How the #&%^ did I get here?" in no time flat. Add Abyss from Dawesome/Tracktion to this category.

A few years back I got an amazingly full-featured Kontakt synth on sale for $5 that is as good as it is unattractive: The Pentagon from Dark Harmony.

Not strictly adhering to the OP's synth category, but I do like all of the Engine synths (Galaxy-FX is a monster in a rare category, SynthWerks nicely nails down formant-style sounds, and someday I'll actually get through the 12800 presets* that Titan2 comes with).

Again, not strictly adhering to the OP's synth category: I don't know if it's just me, but the Steinberg synths sound noticeably better now that I have the full version of Halion than they did with Sonic SE3.

I guess we're all past Synth1. Urban legend says that there are no duplicates among the 25000 or so available presets.**

I'm sure this thread is going to have a lot of us visiting old buddies. 

Paj
8^)

*I once read a review for Titan2 in which the reviewer claimed that he couldn't find a single patch he liked. If they had only included 12800 and one . . .

**I'm apologizing in advance for bringing this up.


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## KEM (Apr 29, 2022)

Pier said:


> I sold my ANA2 license yesterday 😂
> 
> It has some cool features but I never really liked its sound.



Ana2 gets a lot of respect in my eyes because the preset “Slayer of Kings” was used as the main melody for Bring Me The Horizon’s song Kingslayer, that’s when I really started using it


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## Pier (Apr 29, 2022)

KEM said:


> Ana2 gets a lot of respect in my eyes because the preset “Slayer of Kings” was used as the main melody for Bring Me The Horizon’s song Kingslayer, that’s when I really started using it



I mean... you could get that sound with almost any synth, no?

And after a shit ton of processing the synth itself matters less and less.


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## KEM (Apr 29, 2022)

Pier said:


> I mean... you could get that sound with almost any synth, no?
> 
> And after a shit ton of processing the synth itself matters less and less.



You probably could, but the reason it’s way cooler is because you have the knowledge that BMTH used it


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## Sirocco (Apr 29, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> First of all, sorry to hear that! School years can be a cruel roll of the dice.
> 
> 
> As far as forgotten synths go, my first proper plugin purchase must have been Albino 3 I think. It almost never gets mentioned around here. Which is a shame in my opinion because I think it has some really good presets in its library. I just got a small shock reading it supposedly doesn't work under windows 10 but I just checked and it seems fine at first glance. I did find a fun mention of it though:
> ...


Yes, i used when vst racks era, i try to find and no luck, i think irt survives early years of XP, it was like an alien synth, out of everyother symth, style....what pads with movement did, yes i not missed to be honest but not so much ago i hear and see it again and it was like some inspirational thing...XD.

I still have a caddy with an HD with Cubase, Albino, and many other fx and instruments that passed and some of them are the foundations of some todays well knows VI´s.

I also remember use and abuse of GRM Tools for every kind of signal and see what happened... that ball moving..XD


Salute!


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## Technostica (Apr 29, 2022)

HeliaVox said:


> Still waiting for an M1 native version though.


This is the PA changelog:

Version 1.3.0 (Sep 17, 2021)
- fixed several crash bugs
- fixed artifacts when using low buffersizexs

This from the developer's site:

version 1.3.0:
*Added native Apple Silicon architecture support for Mac*
Plugin Data folder can be relocated on Windows now
Added support for Oddsound MTS-ESP microtuning
Fixed crash in Logic Pro X
Fixed UI updating issues on macOS 11.3X
Dropped 32bit support for both Windows and Mac
Increased popup menu size
Return key press does not trigger preset changes now
All parameter changes now correctly reported back to DAW. This has been causing issue with external controllers
Fixed incorrect GUI scaling for dual monitor setup
Added "Load Preset…" command for preset browser
Few minor fixes and adjustments


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## KEM (Apr 29, 2022)

Technostica said:


> This is the PA changelog:
> 
> Version 1.3.0 (Sep 17, 2021)
> - fixed several crash bugs
> ...



I’ll download it right now and see if it’s on the blocklist in Cubase


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## GregSilver (Apr 29, 2022)

Also often forgotten and a gem of a synth, especially for basslines is Fabfilter's One.


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## tressie5 (Apr 29, 2022)

@el-bo, you're right that this post would probably receive more traction at KVR. You know the reason why I gravitate towards VI? This forum looks better to my eyes, more streamlined and clean. You don't get inundated with ads and other visual distractions like at KVR, SOS or, the worst offender of all, Gear Space.


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## Living Fossil (Apr 29, 2022)

Among other synths that were mentioned (like Tal J-8 – the best available Jupiter 8 emulation – or AIR's LOOM-2 – a quite unique additive synth) I would also mention Logic's own *Sculpture*.
It's a PM beast, and it's somehow a shame that there are no 3rd party sound sets for it (at least I'm not aware of any).

BTW, Logic's *ES2* was great at the time it came out. I bought it when it came out (it wasn't a "regular" part of Logic yet) and used it a lot in the early 2000s... It had some very characteristic sounds, mostly due to the wavetables. I guess I stopped using it more and more after zebra2 took over...


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## NekujaK (Apr 29, 2022)

I rarely see mention of Superwave synths any more, but 10-15 years ago, the P8 (freeware) was one of the few soft-synths that could competently deliver phat analog goodness. Their other "pro" synths aren't bad either.






All Synthesizers - SuperWave







www.superwavesynths.com


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## LA68 (Apr 29, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> Growing up, I was THAT KID that got ignored, the outsider always looking in. By default, I reached out to other kids who were also outcasts, fringe dwellers as it were. It's probably why, to this day, I happily embrace synths that time has cruelly made impotent. Which synths? Seaweed Audio's Fathom, Ozcan's Genesis Pro, SPC's ArcSyn, 2nd Sense's Wiggle, Audjoo's Helix, Dmitry Sches's Diversion, LinPlug's CRx4, Ocean Swift's OSS Enterprise, SoloStuff SoloRack, Audiaire's Zone, OT Genesyn, and a few others.
> 
> Demoing them, I scratched my head wondering, "Hey, this doesn't sound half bad. How come this failed while Sylenth1, Serum, Zebra, Spire, Pigments, Diva, etc prospered?" As an ambient artist, I find their various plucks, pads, basses, arpeggiators and tweakability immensely useful. Then again, maybe it's just me.


I feel like u-he in particular take good care of their plugins, more so than other companies. Quite a few of the "under the radar" synths are pretty much abandoned, and some of them not even particularly late in their existance. Still great synths, though, but I can see why people don't want to spend on something that reached the end of its life (especially if they use a Mac).

Personally I don't mind at all. One of my more recent purchases is Cakewalk Rapture, picked it up last year. :D Fun synth. And as dead as a plugin can be.

To add to your list:

Rhino 2 (Tick is working on R3), Aspect* (Version 2 also in the making) and HY-POLY.



NekujaK said:


> I rarely see mention of Superwave synths any more, but 10-15 years ago, the P8 (freeware) was one of the few soft-synths that could competently deliver phat analog goodness. Their other "pro" synths aren't bad either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't remember this well and might be wrong, but weren't there some issues that made the company fall out of favor?

P8 is one of the classics tho, loved that thing.


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## el-bo (Apr 30, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> @el-bo, you're right that this post would probably receive more traction at KVR. You know the reason why I gravitate towards VI? This forum looks better to my eyes, more streamlined and clean. You don't get inundated with ads and other visual distractions like at KVR, SOS or, the worst offender of all, Gear Space.


Actually, I think you're getting traction. There're definitely people here who're very deep into the synth side of things and I guess that's growing all the time. But it does butt up against a section of the community who's need for synths is covered by Omnisphere and/or Zebra. In the case of KVR, the shift is all the way towards the synth-heavy side of the spectrum.

Each forum/community definitely has its own style, type of clientele etc., and it can be useful to check out other places, for other reasons. With the use of some sort of ad-blocking, it can be easy to strip away some of the worst examples and I think eventually our minds just filter the rest out (Presuming, of course, that you aren't actively interested).


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## tressie5 (May 1, 2022)

Which begs the question - How come Halion gets no love? Oh wait - you need a combined degree in Fourier analysis, Mechatronics and Quantum Photonics to understand it. Never mind.


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## muziksculp (May 1, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> Which begs the question - How come Halion gets no love? Oh wait - you need a combined degree in Fourier analysis, Mechatronics and Quantum Photonics to understand it. Never mind.


*Falcon* is another one of those


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## Superabbit (May 2, 2022)

The AIR synths, I think. So capable and hardly ever mentioned or supported by 3rd-party patch purveyors. I have and _love_ Hybrid 3 (great arps you can build a song around), Vacuum Pro, and Xpand!2. They haven't been updated in a few years, but they function perfectly on my systems. And perhaps because they were coded a decade back, they are not resource-hungry.

As far as I'm concerned, they have nothing to apologize for sonically. If they've been "surpassed," I don't know by what. I like the way they sound so much that sometimes I force myself not to reach instantly for Vacuum Pro when I want a phat bass or pad, or Hybrid when I want a pad or arp. Xpand! is a must-have tool for sketching out arrangements that I intend to fill out with other sounds later. The thing is, though, I wind up just using the sound in Xpand! and don't replace it because it sounds so good.

Also, they can all be had for under $10 most of the time at Plugin Boutique. Sometimes even less, as low as $5.

I've lost count of the number of song ideas that have sprung from auditioning patches in Hybrid and Vacuum Pro.

A soft synth would have to really blow me away before it could supplant those three in my quiver. And it would have to do it without bringing my laptop to a grinding halt.

The freeware TAL Noisemaker doesn't get much mention. It's a virtual analog workhorse that's great for blurpy funk synth bass sounds.


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## Sirocco (May 2, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> Which begs the question - How come Halion gets no love? Oh wait - you need a combined degree in Fourier analysis, Mechatronics and Quantum Photonics to understand it. Never mind.


And a hawk's eye even with glasses up close. And no jokin´, is the main reason i tired a lot with it after decades, and Groove Agent the same, except the first one, many eons ago...XD. Althought Kontakt follows pretty near, althought both are samplers not since, althought i can´t see that ridiculous fonts; at least Omnisphere lasts decades with the same interface, at least is cleeear.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (May 2, 2022)

Some love for this forgotten „gem“?


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## Snoobydoobydoo (May 2, 2022)

I feel old…


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## Alchemedia (May 2, 2022)

Tranzistow is definitely not for the faint of heart (HALion & Falcon are a walk in the park in comparison) however it is a brilliant sounding synth worth the effort if you can manage to tranzend the Laurence Olivier inspired GUI.


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## MarcMahler89 (May 2, 2022)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Some love for this forgotten „gem“?


That was actually my first software VST synth. Coupled with this one :


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## Snoobydoobydoo (May 2, 2022)

MarcMahler89 said:


> That was actually my first software VST synth. Coupled with this one :


Heh mine too. Well not z3ta+, I didn't understand it at that time.


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## el-bo (May 2, 2022)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> I feel old…


Cameleon was the first virtual synth I bought, i believe. Camel Audio posted it to me, along with CamelSpace and CamelPhatt


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## Snoobydoobydoo (May 2, 2022)

el-bo said:


> Cameleon was the first virtual synth I bought, i believe. Camel Audio posted it to me, along with CamelSpace and CamelPhatt


I had Camel Crusher, because it was free  Oh, it still is....
Think I crushed everything to death with it, and not learning from that..lol...


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## cuttime (May 2, 2022)

Alphakanal's Automat, which is certainly not getting any love from its developer:


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## outland (May 2, 2022)

Superabbit said:


> The AIR synths, I think. So capable and hardly ever mentioned or supported by 3rd-party patch purveyors. I have and _love_ Hybrid 3 (great arps you can build a song around), Vacuum Pro, and Xpand!2. They haven't been updated in a few years, but they function perfectly on my systems. And perhaps because they were coded a decade back, they are not resource-hungry.


Actually, AIR upgraded very recently. There was an update to VacuumPro (Tube Synth), Hybrid 3 and theRiser seem to have been combined (?) into Hype, and there was an introduction of a simple, but nice sounding Bass Synth called Bassline. I'm not sure about Hype; for many of my puposes, there is a kind of dearth of modulations available. It sounds very nice, however.


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## MarcMahler89 (May 2, 2022)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Heh mine too. Well not z3ta+, I didn't understand it at that time.


Neither did i  But thats where the presets came in handy


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## tressie5 (May 2, 2022)

I just had a looksee at Hype since outland mentioned Hybrid 3 and theRiser seems to have been combined into it. That's cool considering I use Hybrid 3 and theRiser often. Hype does have quite a lot of useful risers and dreamy pads with "Winter" being a standout. Sadly, Hype lacks Hybrid's dual arpeggiators, a feature found in only a handful of synths (Omnisphere, Wavestate, Falcon, etc).


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## kgdrum (May 2, 2022)

Alchemedia said:


> Tranzistow is definitely not for the faint of heart (HALion & Falcon are a walk in the park in comparison) however it is a brilliant sounding synth worth the effort if you can manage to tranzend the Laurence Olivier inspired GUI.



I was at the dentist earlier today I suggested to the hygienist several times (tooth cleaning) to please watch Marathon Man! 🦷😳


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## KEM (May 2, 2022)

I actually kinda like the look of those really old synth plugins, there’s a certain charm to it


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## MisteR (May 2, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Imposcar by GForce. Totally forgotten at this point.


Just want to second this. Love impOSCar.

Also a fan of XILS PolyKB, although I haven't used it in a while.


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## kgdrum (May 2, 2022)

MisteR said:


> Just want to second this. Love impOSCar.
> 
> Also a fan of XILS PolyKB, although I haven't used it in a while.


this 👍

Yeah these are great synths.

I’m also surprised more people don’t use and rave about how awesome ODDITY is!







GForce Software







www.gforcesoftware.com







XILS seems to fly under the radar I occasionally use & really like PolyKB & XILS4 ………….. PolyM is on my buy list & will probably be purchased BF.



https://www.xils-lab.com/


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## KEM (May 2, 2022)

kgdrum said:


> this 👍 Yeah these are great synths.
> 
> I’m also surprised more people don’t use and rave about how awesome ODDITY is!
> 
> ...



Oddity does have one very famous user, I bought it after watching this video


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## Sirocco (May 2, 2022)

ImpOSCar2 was unified for Unify, so this synth with its presets still alives inside a program where favourite feature is put layers and layers, and when some old synth appears sounding in a dozen layers patch and is put randomly by the program, is a great surprise see synths like this, sounding along Omnispheres, Kontakt libs, mega modern synths or whatever.

Is for me when i realized that even the time and technology goes at lightspeed, a good sound is still there, unique flavour. Is the 2 verison but still has that, i think.

Salute!


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## José Herring (May 2, 2022)

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell Unify is. Many have explained, I still don't get it. Is it a combination vsthost with a patch management system and the ability to save custom configurations? I even listened to the video of the guy who owns the company and I still didn't get it.


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## kgdrum (May 2, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I'm still trying to figure out what the hell Unify is. Many have explained, I still don't get it. Is it a combination vsthost with a patch management system and the ability to save custom configurations? I even listened to the video of the guy who owns the company and I still didn't get it.


+1 re: Unify
i have it,don’t get it or use it.
i like the immediacy & simplicity of using one instrument at a time.
I’m constantly fighting for space, layering everything for me just seems like its great in concept but can easily become an impenetrable wall of sound that for me usually doesn’t work.


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## Whywhy (May 2, 2022)

Tranzistow: beautiful system, awesome possibilities and sound. 
( but only Linux and Pc)


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## NekujaK (May 2, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I'm still trying to figure out what the hell Unify is. Many have explained, I still don't get it. Is it a combination vsthost with a patch management system and the ability to save custom configurations? I even listened to the video of the guy who owns the company and I still didn't get it.


I don't have Unify, but it seems to me it's like Reason's Combinator. From the high level descriptions I've read about Unify, the impression I get is that it pretty much does exactly what a Combinator does: enables you to stack a bunch of devices and save the entire configuration as a dedicated patch.

But I'm sure there's gotta be more to it than that... 🤷‍♂️


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## sean8877 (May 2, 2022)

I'm a big fan of Lush-101. Some of my favorite bass sounds.


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## José Herring (May 2, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> I don't have Unify, but it seems to me it's like Reason's Combinator. From the high level descriptions I've read about Unify, the impression I get is that it pretty much does exactly what a Combinator does: enables you to stack a bunch of devices and save the entire configuration as a dedicated patch.
> 
> But I'm sure there's gotta be more to it than that... 🤷‍♂️


Makes sense. I think what makes it confusing is that it seems to have its own synth and sampler capabilities plus it can import banks from other synths and "unify" them. Whatever that really means. A little bit too "kum ba yah" for me to think with.


sean8877 said:


> I'm a big fan of Lush-101. Some of my favorite bass sounds.


I always forget about this synth. It's an amazing plugin and the next step up from SH 101


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## cedricm (May 2, 2022)

Sonically fine, but I don't like Halion's GUI, which isn't resizable, and like Kontakt overdoes it with small fonts. I only have SE though, maybe the full version is better.

I'm still using Cakewalk's Dimension Pro, Rapture and Z3ta+.

KV331's Synthmaster 2 is worth considering, especially on sale, which is most of the time. Or for those who mostly use presets, Synthmaster Player.

For the price, the CM offerings are amazing: BazilleCM, DuneCM, ZebraCM. With the exception of Stix CM an its "Only available in the LE or Full version presets", with no filter)

Before year's end, I intend to spend some quality time with Aparillo and Iris 2.


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## liquidlino (May 2, 2022)

Whywhy said:


> Tranzistow: beautiful system, awesome possibilities and sound.
> ( but only Linux and Pc)


Wowsers. Just downloaded and tried - amazing sound... totally unfathomable interface so far, but beautiful sounding, thanks for the recommendation! Will definitely be using that in some pieces in the future.


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## Bee_Abney (May 3, 2022)

When a synths presets are Unified, it just means that you can access individual presets directly from the Unify interface. If it isn't Unified, you have to load the synth then access the preset from the synths interface (but loaded within Unify).

So, not that important if you are designing your own patches or using third-party soundsets. But it is a nice feature of Pluginguru's own third-party soundsets that they are all Unified.

You can also Unify articulations of sample libraries, and that is, I imagine, very useful.

Basically, Unify allows you to stack sounds, modulate audio and midi, integrate sequencers/arps and effects with libraries and synths, split the keyboard, and save it in one place that can itself be used as a vst in various environments.

It's useful for live playing, jamming, sketching, and designing sounds and sequences using multiple plugins that can be moved from project to project, DAW to DAW.

I have only started using it since some of my vsts have refused to show up in my DAW directly (including Falcon). For me, it is easier and quicker than Komplete, as well as being able to do more.

It does seem to crash a lot, or at least with some inserted. It also has an annoying feature that interfaces opened within it are always on top of any other windows you have open. You can just close the display of the interface; but it is an issue when they cover up message windows that you need to click.

So, it's pretty good; and it is frequently updated so getting better continually.


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## Superabbit (May 3, 2022)

outland said:


> Actually, AIR upgraded very recently. There was an update to VacuumPro (Tube Synth), Hybrid 3 and theRiser seem to have been combined (?) into Hype, and there was an introduction of a simple, but nice sounding Bass Synth called Bassline. I'm not sure about Hype; for many of my puposes, there is a kind of dearth of modulations available. It sounds very nice, however.


I haven't tried them, but the new ones seem to be, as you imply, recycled code from the existing ones with flatter UI's. When they drop to $10 on Pluginboutique I'll probably get them. I use Vacuum Pro for bass, so a bass-centric EZ version of it would get some use around here.


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## Sirocco (May 3, 2022)

Unify can do things that any other compact system do, i mean that maybe is possible to access all midi funcyion-controls of a plugin since various sequencers or whatever, but all together no.

Ironically is using basic midi tools that are living with us since the beginnig of all these, but with "easy" access to do things that it seems don´t feature a plugin itself; i use to manage many of X/Y pads with a surface touch simply because i can assing the cc at the control that does it, and the developer don´t put it as a feature, i.e. X/Y pad moving in Portal, in Bioscape and thousand of usable functions that deserve to make layers, sound designer, or whatever use wanted.

Is an offtopic but this video has the value that it is not rocket science, all those thing are here since the past century, is only an example:



Salute!


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## gamma-ut (May 3, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I think what makes it confusing is that it seems to have its own synth and sampler capabilities plus it can import banks from other synths and "unify" them. Whatever that really means.


The "built-in" synths, such as Dexed are really just plugins - they just happen to be installed with Unify itself. I think the sampler is the only one that is built in.

Unified just means the patches from the factory set or some other preset collection has been imported and saved as Unify patches: the idea being that it's a bit quicker to make multis from those than opening the plugin directly, pulling up the preset in it and then saving the Unify patch.

Now, you're probably wondering why saving a synth's native patch into the Unify wrapper is useful but I've found it really handy for Waldorf's Largo as the internal patch management in the synth itself is now badly messed up on OS X. With Unify it's not a problem: just save the edits there instead. Similarly, it's useful for synths that rely on the DAW's own patch-management routines, which makes it hard to save patches that work in a different DAW. So it has uses beyond just stacking patches for a multi.


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## LA68 (May 3, 2022)

Superabbit said:


> Also, they can all be had for under $10 most of the time at Plugin Boutique. Sometimes even less, as low as $5.


Actually, it seems like those days are over. AIR haven't had such discounts for a while, even black friday was only 70% off. I assume that has to do with InMusic - they released some "new" plugins, too. Xpand!2 is for example about 30€ at Plugin Boutique now.

The new plugins require online activation :/ No more Ilok.



outland said:


> Actually, AIR upgraded very recently. There was an update to VacuumPro (Tube Synth), Hybrid 3 and theRiser seem to have been combined (?) into Hype, and there was an introduction of a simple, but nice sounding Bass Synth called Bassline. I'm not sure about Hype; for many of my puposes, there is a kind of dearth of modulations available. It sounds very nice, however.


IMHO I can hardly call that an update to Vacuum Pro. These are plugins from the MPC Software, which to me seem more like downgrades compared to their previous plugins. Unfortunate, I'd much rather be excited about this. :(


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## vitocorleone123 (May 3, 2022)

kgdrum said:


> this 👍
> 
> Yeah these are great synths.
> 
> ...


I have one Xils synth and I never use it: MiniSynX. Why? Because CPU optimization is an afterthought (literally - I asked the dev about it and his response, to summarize in my own words, was "meh").

However now that Audiogridder is available and I can run the server and client on the same machine (lowest latency, but I also have a 2nd computer), I'll need to reinstall it and see if I can finally use it.

EDIT: The answer is, no, the synth is basically broken because you can't use PWM, even in Audiogridder on a reasonable 9900K system. Uninstalling again and throwing it back on the dustbin of digital storage.


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## outland (May 3, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> I just had a looksee at Hype since outland mentioned Hybrid 3 and theRiser seems to have been combined into it. That's cool considering I use Hybrid 3 and theRiser often. Hype does have quite a lot of useful risers and dreamy pads with "Winter" being a standout. Sadly, Hype lacks Hybrid's dual arpeggiators, a feature found in only a handful of synths (Omnisphere, Wavestate, Falcon, etc).


Yes, it's odd, isn't it? In a few ways, Hype looks less like an upgrade and more like a reduction. I'm not sure what they're going for here....


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## outland (May 3, 2022)

LA68 said:


> Actually, it seems like those days are over. AIR haven't had such discounts for a while, even black friday was only 70% off. I assume that has to do with InMusic - they released some "new" plugins, too. Xpand!2 is for example about 30€ at Plugin Boutique now.
> 
> The new plugins require online activation :/ No more Ilok.
> 
> ...


Right. Tube Synth is almost a sideways upgrade, while Hype, even with the combination of the two synths, is kind of a stripping down of function. I do think they both sound a bit warmer, but with warmth alone, I'm not sure that constitutes the need to pick-up Hype. I did get Tube Synth and Bassline because of the price ($29), but at $79, Hype seems overpriced a bit (especially as I own Hybrid 3 and theRiser.)


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## Bee_Abney (May 3, 2022)

Combining two synths abilities, I'm not surprise that loses some functionality. But it's nice that someone who can do the comparison thinks that Hype sounds warmer. I never got Hybrid 3, even with all of those crazy $10 sales; so Hype could be a sensible choice for me at some point.


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## outland (May 3, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Combining two synths abilities, I'm not surprise that loses some functionality. But it's nice that someone who can do the comparison thinks that Hype sounds warmer. I never got Hybrid 3, even with all of those crazy $10 sales; so Hype could be a sensible choice for me at some point.


The $79 price ends, I think, tonight. I'm not sure what the full price will be.


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## tressie5 (May 7, 2022)

I sure wish they'd release a Hybrid 3. I lean heavily on arpeggiators and the ones in Hybrid 3 are beginning to show their limitation and weaknesses. It's why I lean so heavily on Diversion. I tried to give Proclethya a fighting chance but its arpeggiator, which I do like, drifts out of time. Very odd. Maybe by Proclethya II they'll fix that and add more mod routings.


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## LA68 (May 7, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> I sure wish they'd release a Hybrid 3. I lean heavily on arpeggiators and the ones in Hybrid 3 are beginning to show their limitation and weaknesses. It's why I lean so heavily on Diversion. I tried to give Proclethya a fighting chance but its arpeggiator, which I do like, drifts out of time. Very odd. Maybe by Proclethya II they'll fix that and add more mod routings.


Hmm, it's not a super deep synth, but maybe HY-POLY could be worth a try? The Arp seems quite capable.


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## tressie5 (May 7, 2022)

Oops. I'd meant to write I hope they come out with a Hybrid 4. The nice thing about Hybrid 3's arpeggiator system is I can set one to, say, 1/4 time and the other to 1/16 and they'll play nicely together in up, down, random, etc fashion. Falcon can accomplish this as can Omnisphere and Wavestate. I'm sure there are others.


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## R10k (May 7, 2022)

Does Generate fit into this category? I've heard a few people use it, and obviously presets are around for it, but when it's on sale (like now) not much is said about it. I tried it and was blown away by it. I thought it was more of a chaos generator but it can produce some really nice sounds very easily...


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## Paul_xyz (May 8, 2022)

I guess people hear the word "chaos" and think random/messy, but chaos is a system that _can_ get essentially random due its sensitivity to input changes, but there is method at its core. I've been toying with getting the joranalogue orbit 3 eurorack "chaos oscillator" module for a little while, but ended up buying generate last week when it went on sale and it has scratched that itch (at least for now).

I think waverazor is one that deserves a bit more love. Even ignoring it's USP wave-slicing, under the "interesting" interface lurks a nice subtractive synth with decent filters (imo) and a ridiculously well featured modulation and routing system. Just wish it could do oscillators as audio-rate sources.


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## doctoremmet (May 8, 2022)

Nominating three more:

Waldorf Largo
Tracktion f.-‘em
Tracktion Biotek 2


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## doctoremmet (May 8, 2022)

Also:

NuSofting Modelonia
Nusofting Sinmad
IMOXplus Respiro
All Madrona Labs synths
Brian Clevinger’s Rhizomatic Plasmonic


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## tressie5 (May 8, 2022)

Poor poor Tracktion. I don't know how they survive. When it comes to DAWs, Waveform Pro gets short shrift in the preferences dept. In addition to f.'em and Biotek, Hyperion, Waverazor and Spacecraft get treated like leper-afflicted step children. At least Abyss is a shining star. And don't even mention their Retromod classic synths line. Those already went the way of the dodo bird.


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## doctoremmet (May 8, 2022)

The Tracktion synths I mention above are absolutely brilliant. And all @Peter V creations, ABYSS + the two announced new instruments, are in the top of the top tier for me. I sure hope they get the love they deserve.


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## confusedsheep (May 8, 2022)

http://memorymoon.com/messiah.htm

totally overlooked imho


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## Bee_Abney (May 8, 2022)

confusedsheep said:


> http://memorymoon.com/messiah.htm
> 
> totally overlooked imho


I hadn't run across that one! Thanks.


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## gamma-ut (May 8, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> Poor poor Tracktion. I don't know how they survive. When it comes to DAWs, Waveform Pro gets short shrift in the preferences dept. In addition to f.'em and Biotek, Hyperion, Waverazor and Spacecraft get treated like leper-afflicted step children. At least Abyss is a shining star. And don't even mention their Retromod classic synths line. Those already went the way of the dodo bird.


The Retromods were always going to find life difficult in an market where you can throw a dart at Loot Audio and come up with a half-decent Kontakt-compatible sampled synth, and where you have UVI and IK's own extensive takes on "vintage vaults".

With the others, Spacecraft has a somewhat inscrutable interface though not nearly as arcane as Waverazor's, and it can seem hard to control. Abyss on the other hand does deliver reasonably immediate gratification from just noodling around. With Biotek, Hyperion and Waverazor, to make interesting patches you really need a plan because they are each very deep in their own way and they don't expose that deepness in a very accessible way.

Biotek suffers a bit from the gimmicky (IMO) wheel in the main UI page which can make it seem just a warmed-over vector synth but it has some great features under the hood that aren't really even covered in the manual to any degree. You can build highly responsive patches using combinations of MIDI CCs that get you quite a long way before you need to think about moving to Kontakt or Falcon scripting. But it's tucked away in some obscure page and barely merits a paragraph in the manual. The multistep LFOs (similar to those in Arcsyn) are a bit more obvious but they can be made to dance a lot more with the CC setup - but they tend to wind up just being used for basic brostep wobbles.

Hyperion probably needs a display mode where you can hide the basic control signals between modules – or make them a lot more transparent – as you quickly wind up with a rat's nest, particularly as you need to connect a lot of stuff before it will make a sound. The wavesequencing and FM aspects need work. But, again, it's a good deep synth.

Waverazor does crazy things but the internal logic behind its modulation system seems unnecessarily arcane. I can work it out then leave it for a week or two and the learning curve coming back seems just as steep as it was in the beginning. I think one other issue is that, like Wiggle and Curve, the idea of manipulating waveforms directly is conceptually appealing but you find sound design is very tricky: you get tiny sweet spots in among a lot of chaos that make FM seem easy.

Each of them could become classics but they each need some work on the sound-designer front to come up with patches that really show off their strengths and demonstrate they can do things other synths cannot, particularly for Biotek where it's having to face down Halion, Falcon and Kontakt, where if someone is thinking "this patch needs a bit of scripting or controller logic combinations to make it work" they are probably going to bypass Biotek.


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## KEM (May 8, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Nominating three more:
> 
> Waldorf Largo
> Tracktion f.-‘em
> Tracktion Biotek 2



I’ve actually been heavily thinking about buying Largo lately, only concern is that it’s old and probably won’t ever be Apple Silicon native, but it definitely has a really cool gui and I really liked the sound of it


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## Bee_Abney (May 8, 2022)

KEM said:


> I’ve actually been heavily thinking about buying Largo lately, only concern is that it’s old and probably won’t ever be Apple Silicon native, but it definitely has a really cool gui and I really liked the sound of it


Now is a good time to buy it at Audio Plugin Deals - everything is at its base price, plus there is supposed to be a code for 10% extra off.

I have Largo and Nave, and they do both sound brilliant. I don't know them well enough to draw distinctions between them, but Largo feels maybe a little heftier?

I've made patches in both, but I haven't really learned my way around. So I've mostly used presets, and layered them in with other things. I bought them in a bundle on an offer at Audio Plugin Deals, and they have got a lot more use than many things I bought on impulse like that!


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## KEM (May 8, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Now is a good time to buy it at Audio Plugin Deals - everything is at its base price, plus there is supposed to be a code for 10% extra off.
> 
> I have Largo and Nave, and they do both sound brilliant. I don't know them well enough to draw distinctions between them, but Largo feels maybe a little heftier?
> 
> I've made patches in both, but I haven't really learned my way around. So I've mostly used presets, and layered them in with other things. I bought them in a bundle on an offer at Audio Plugin Deals, and they have got a lot more use than many things I bought on impulse like that!



I’ll give it a look then!! Maybe if I bug Waldorf they’ll make a vst3/Apple Silicon native version for me


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## doctoremmet (May 8, 2022)

KEM said:


> I’ve actually been heavily thinking about buying Largo lately, only concern is that it’s old and probably won’t ever be Apple Silicon native, but it definitely has a really cool gui and I really liked the sound of it


It IS a pretty good synth to be honest, but like you I’ve held off buying the PPG, for the same reasons. I actually had a real PPG2.2 in the 1990s but it was extremely buggy and eventually died. The sound is excellent though and the closest I’ve ever come to recreating that sound is still the REV A Waldorf Microwave.

I read over a year ago that Dirk from Brainworx has acquired the IP from Wolfgang Palm. So I am still expecting a PPG emulation from Plugin Alliance, so I guess I’ll wait for that one to come on the scene.


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## KEM (May 8, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> It IS a pretty good synth to be honest, but like you I’ve held off buying the PPG, for the same reasons. I actually had a real PPG2.2 in the 1990s but it was extremely buggy and eventually died. The sound is excellent though and the closest I’ve ever come to recreating that sound is still the REV A Waldorf Microwave.
> 
> I read over a year ago that Dirk from Brainworx has acquired the IP from Wolfgang Palm. So I am still expecting a PPG emulation from Plugin Alliance, so I guess I’ll wait for that one to come on the scene.



If it happens then I’ll definitely give it a go since I have no plans of cancelling my Plugin Alliance subscription, an updated Largo would for sure be a welcomed edition!!


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## Bee_Abney (May 8, 2022)

KEM said:


> I’ll give it a look then!! Maybe if I bug Waldorf they’ll make a vst3/Apple Silicon native version for me


That's the spirit! They could do that! It is logically possible.


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## KEM (May 8, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> That's the spirit! They could do that! It is logically possible.



I’ll shoot em an email right now


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## doctoremmet (May 8, 2022)

Some of the best digital synthesizer sounds I have ever heard were PPG. Very metallic and harsh, yet somehow warmed up by the filters.

There’s actually a lot of that on old mid 1980s Depeche Mode records and Gary Numan’s Berserker, The Fury, Strange Charm and a couple of other albums from that era.

The synths on these tracks are entirely done with PPG and the Waveterm sampler.


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## Paul_xyz (May 8, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> It IS a pretty good synth to be honest, but like you I’ve held off buying the PPG, for the same reasons. I actually had a real PPG2.2 in the 1990s but it was extremely buggy and eventually died. The sound is excellent though and the closest I’ve ever come to recreating that sound is still the REV A Waldorf Microwave.
> 
> I read over a year ago that Dirk from Brainworx has acquired the IP from Wolfgang Palm. So I am still expecting a PPG emulation from Plugin Alliance, so I guess I’ll wait for that one to come on the scene.


I have waldorf PPG 3.V and it shows up as a VST3 in ableton running in native mode on m1.






PPG Wave 3.V EN


Overview Specifications YouTube TutorialSoundsets Sound Demos Pictures FAQ/Downloads Specifications YouTube Tutorial Soundsets Sound Demos




waldorfmusic.com







> System Requirements​Microsoft Windows - 7/10 • Intel or AMD based PC
> MacOS - 10.12.x or higher • Intel-based Mac
> Compatible with BigSur/Monterey on M1
> Supported formats: VST2 / VST3 / AU / AAX


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## KEM (May 8, 2022)

Paul_xyz said:


> I have waldorf PPG 3.V and it shows up as a VST3 in ableton running in native mode on m1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Let’s hope the Largo gets the same treatment then


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## Paul_xyz (May 8, 2022)

KEM said:


> Let’s hope the Largo gets the same treatment then


yeah, in the interim largo runs as an AU in ableton native (using the automatic AU rosetta wrapper).


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## doctoremmet (May 8, 2022)

Paul_xyz said:


> I have waldorf PPG 3.V and it shows up as a VST3 in ableton running in native mode on m1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does it sound good?


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## Sirocco (May 8, 2022)

And the size of the window in Largo, i can´t understand so many years and still with that window; Please make it resizeable Waldoooorf!!


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## Paul_xyz (May 8, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Does it sound good?


I think so - the interface isn't the most fun thing to use though. (I have my mac set up so cmd+mouse wheel zooms the screen for UIs like this)


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## doctoremmet (May 8, 2022)

Paul_xyz said:


> I think so - the interface isn't the most fun thing to use though. (I have my mac set up so cmd+mouse wheel zooms the screen for UIs like this)


A whole lot better than the original non-backlit 2 x 16 LCD screen though


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## LA68 (May 8, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> A whole lot better than the original non-backlit 2 x 16 LCD screen though


The interface of 3.V (like any Waldorf software) is definitely dated, but it's also really not that bad once you get used to it. The synth isn't super complex anyway. That wouldn't keep me from buying it.

But even if one doesn't like to edit it, there's a generous amount of presets. :D


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## doctoremmet (May 12, 2022)

KEM said:


> Oddity does have one very famous user, I bought it after watching this video



On sale over at APD:


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## nolotrippen (May 12, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> On sale over at APD:











ODDITY2 by GForce Software - Audio Plugin Deals


Oddity2 takes the character and operational architecture of 3 generations of a classic and via a wave of enhancements, transports its spirit into a new dimension.




audioplugin.deals


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## Marko Cifer (May 13, 2022)

Here's one that I don't see a lot of chatter on (while tons of people seem to own it if you go by Plugin Boutique review data):









Sektor - Hybrid Wavetable Synth Plugin - Initial Audio


Wavetable Synth plugin over 750 Unique Factory Presets over 200 Unique Wavetables Built in sampler engine with hundreds of samples. Also plays back Heat Up 3 Instruments (Requires Heat Up 3) Supports all major DAWs including Protools Windows: AAX, VST3, VST2 Plugin Mac: AAX, Audio Unit...




initialaudio.com





Picked it up back when I was starting out, as it was cheap. Goes on sale quite often and it has a standalone version. Still go back to it from time to time. Feature-wise it can do a lot, tho after not using it for a while I do forget its workflow a bit admittedly, especially modulating stuff.



cedricm said:


> I'm still using Cakewalk's Dimension Pro, Rapture and Z3ta+.


Same (except for Dimension Pro), but I'd add Z3TA+ 2 to that, tho I never delved deep into any of them. Funnily enough I was gifted a copy of SONAR, then upgraded that and grabbed some of the sound sets + Z3TA+ 2 - on Steam of all places. Then Cakewalk imploded. Still dunno if that stuff will even activate once I switch machines at some point.


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## kilgurt (May 13, 2022)

Korg Monopoly: very anlogue sounding and overlooked!


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## Rocaille (May 13, 2022)

Loom II by Air and MOK Waverazor
​


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## outland (May 13, 2022)

Rocaille said:


> Loom II by Air and MOK Waverazor
> ​


Many of the synths distributed by Tracktion could be on this list; F'em (I despise the name, but the synth is great), Waverazor (and MOK's other plug-in, MiniRaze, which is not disributed by Tracktion), Hyperion, Abyss, BioTek 2, and Spacecraft are all worthy of greater exposure.

Enzyme was a great rough-edged plug-in that was capable of many industrial and extreme sounds. It's gone now (as in "not available to buy"), though it still works on my computer. 

Cypher 2 and Strobe 2 are both very good sounding and capable, though they haven't been updated in quite some time and I'm noticing some major glitches in recording/performing MPE in the DAWs I use that seem isolated to both of these plug-ins (as opposed to the DAW's handling of the data.) Is anyone else noticing these issues: notes dropping out, glides stopping inadvertently, notes not being recognized at all?


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## LA68 (May 13, 2022)

Marko Cifer said:


> Here's one that I don't see a lot of chatter on (while tons of people seem to own it if you go by Plugin Boutique review data):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Doesn't look like the Cakewalk activation servers are going away any time soon. You can even still redeem codes for their products if you can get your hands on any.


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## Rocaille (May 14, 2022)

ArcSyn https://www.spcplugins.com/arcsyn


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## Bee_Abney (May 14, 2022)

Rocaille said:


> ArcSyn https://www.spcplugins.com/arcsyn


That's a bit different!


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## Rocaille (May 14, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> That's a bit different!


It's quite nice too


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## Bee_Abney (May 14, 2022)

Rocaille said:


> It's quite nice too


I'll have to demo it, thanks!


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## Bee_Abney (May 14, 2022)

I have demoed ArcSyn.

I have to have this synth. Forget wants and needs; we're beyond that now. This is a matter of sheer inhuman logic.

It is necessary that P.
P: Bee has ArcSyn.
If it is necessary that P then it is necessary that not-P does not obtain.
If not-P then anything. (Anything follows from a logical contradiction.)

You understand? This means that if I don't have ArcSyn, then the moon is literally made of green cheese. And triangles have four sides. And the Unison midipack is a good deal.


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## Rocaille (May 14, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I have demoed ArcSyn.
> 
> I have to have this synth. Forget wants and needs; we're beyond that now. This is a matter of sheer inhuman logic.
> 
> ...


lol


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## Bee_Abney (May 14, 2022)

And here is the first patch I made on ArcSyn. I love this synth!


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## LA68 (May 14, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I have demoed ArcSyn.
> 
> I have to have this synth. Forget wants and needs; we're beyond that now. This is a matter of sheer inhuman logic.
> 
> ...


ArcSyn is fantastic, well worth the full price. That being said, you might want to take a look at Knobcloud (no, I don't know the seller :D)


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## TomislavEP (May 14, 2022)

It seems to me that Reaktor-based synths by Native are often overlooked, except for maybe Monark. Although Massive X is gradually becoming my favorite and go-to VI synth, I always liked Prism and Kontour, especially for expressive leads, various plucks, and hybrid sounds, although I was never particularly fond of pad sounds in their libraries. Rounds is also a very interesting movement generator though not an especially intuitive one in my book.

In general, I'm finding Reaktor to be very stable as the platform since version 6 was released. Besides the official Reaktor Player ensembles, I like to experiment with the geeky stuff from the Factory and User libraries here and there.


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## Bee_Abney (May 14, 2022)

LA68 said:


> ArcSyn is fantastic, well worth the full price. That being said, you might want to take a look at Knobcloud (no, I don't know the seller :D)


Thank you kindly for the tip. I really wish I hadn't just bought a sample pack. Though it was on sale and is very good.


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## Bee_Abney (May 14, 2022)

TomislavEP said:


> It seems to me that Reaktor-based synths by Native are often overlooked, except for maybe Monark. Although Massive X is gradually becoming my favorite and go-to VI synth, I always liked Prism and Kontour, especially for expressive leads, various plucks, and hybrid sounds, although I was never particularly fond of pad sounds in their libraries. Rounds is also a very interesting movement generator though not an especially intuitive one in my book.
> 
> In general, I'm finding Reaktor to be very stable as the platform since version 6 was released. Besides the official Reaktor Player ensembles, I like to experiment with the geeky stuff from the Factory and User libraries here and there.


The Native Instruments Reaktor instruments are all very good. Although Rounds leaves me completely stumped on what to do with it!

I find that a lot of my favourite non-Native Instruments Reaktor instruments are actually heavily sample based, like Flintpope's really excellent instruments. The same for the User Library instruments.

https://flintpope.net/reaktor/
Being sample-based, I don't think they qualify for this thread, but @Flintpope's instruments very definitely deserve love from many more musicians. Some of the granular instruments have to count for this thread, though, as granular always involves samples, and they have own-sample import. Given that, I nominate Ghost (and Ghost Drag, which comes with it and is easier for importing your own samples).

https://flintpope.net/2021/09/14/ghost-ghost-drag/


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## Loïc D (May 14, 2022)

I was about to write Casio Rapman but I see it’s only software synths here…


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## Bee_Abney (May 14, 2022)

Loïc D said:


> I was about to write Casio Rapman but I see it’s only software synths here…


I'm glad that didn't stop you!


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## TomislavEP (May 14, 2022)

Agreed about Flintpope; a fine example of usable and quality 3rd party ensembles.


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## LA68 (May 14, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Thank you kindly for the tip. I really wish I hadn't just bought a sample pack. Though it was on sale and is very good.


SPC Plugins run multiple sales a year, usually 30 or 40% off. Cheapest I've seen it was on a certain November day last year for 45 USD. So, there's not much lost, and I heard somewhere that sample packs can be lots on fun too


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## Bee_Abney (May 14, 2022)

LA68 said:


> SPC Plugins run multiple sales a year, usually 30 or 40% off. Cheapest I've seen it was on a certain November day last year for 45 USD. So, there's not much lost, and I heard somewhere that sample packs can be lots on fun too


Oh, sample packs can be a *lot* of fun! This was Tank by Mammoth Audio. It's oriented towards trailer music, which I don't do, but it is all based on acoustic recordings, so not something I can get with my synths.


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## Flintpope (May 14, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> The Native Instruments Reaktor instruments are all very good. Although Rounds leaves me completely stumped on what to do with it!
> 
> I find that a lot of my favourite non-Native Instruments Reaktor instruments are actually heavily sample based, like Flintpope's really excellent instruments. The same for the User Library instruments.
> 
> ...


That's really kind of you bee. Thanks


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## Bee_Abney (May 14, 2022)

Flintpope said:


> That's really kind of you bee. Thanks


Well, your instruments are really good; so thanks for making great instruments!


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## outland (May 14, 2022)

Marko Cifer said:


> Here's one that I don't see a lot of chatter on (while tons of people seem to own it if you go by Plugin Boutique review data):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Marko, do you have a copy of the installation file for Rapture 1.22 that you'd be willing to share? I've got my serial number and registration code, but lost the file, probably when I upgraded my computer. (I may be making a bad assumption that somehow I'll be able to get it running with Cakewalk, as a company, going bust and all.)

I always liked the original Rapture better than Rapture Pro. It was really cool for leads and basses, especially with my WX5.


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## Marko Cifer (May 15, 2022)

outland said:


> Marko, do you have a copy of the installation file for Rapture 1.22 that you'd be willing to share? I've got my serial number and registration code, but lost the file, probably when I upgraded my computer. (I may be making a bad assumption that somehow I'll be able to get it running with Cakewalk, as a company, going bust and all.)
> 
> I always liked the original Rapture better than Rapture Pro. It was really cool for leads and basses, especially with my WX5.


No, sorry - as mentioned, the purchase was through Steam, so that handles the download and install - I don't get an "installation file" per se.


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## LA68 (May 15, 2022)

outland said:


> Marko, do you have a copy of the installation file for Rapture 1.22 that you'd be willing to share? I've got my serial number and registration code, but lost the file, probably when I upgraded my computer. (I may be making a bad assumption that somehow I'll be able to get it running with Cakewalk, as a company, going bust and all.)
> 
> I always liked the original Rapture better than Rapture Pro. It was really cool for leads and basses, especially with my WX5.


Their site still works, so if you have your account data you can just log in and download whatever you need  






If not, shoot me a message.

Because it's only protected by a serial number it'll work for as long as the OS supports it, but you need to manually install the update that comes with it after installing Rapture itself, otherwise it'll most likely crash your 64-bit DAW every time.

Edit: As a side note, I find it amazing that even though the company went belly up years ago the support of the site reacts more quickly and is more helpful than that of some other big and very much alive companies that I had to get in touch with


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## outland (May 15, 2022)

Marko Cifer said:


> No, sorry - as mentioned, the purchase was through Steam, so that handles the download and install - I don't get an "installation file" per se.


Well, thanks anyways. I appreciate the reply.


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## outland (May 15, 2022)

LA68 said:


> Their site still works, so if you have your account data you can just log in and download whatever you need
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It worked once I signed in, but still couldn't DL the old Rapture 1.22. I actually have two licenses for it and neither link worked. The free presets seem to have been no issue, however. I didn't try to DL the version 1.0 first, so I'll try that and see what happens. I'm not sure that Win10 Pro supports it. I vaguely remember many crashes when I tried to reinstall years ago. Rapture works fine and is currently installed on my computer, though I wasn't as fond of it. 

I'll message you if there's an issue. Thanks so much for the help!


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## LA68 (May 15, 2022)

outland said:


> It worked once I signed in, but still couldn't DL the old Rapture 1.22. I actually have two licenses for it and neither link worked. The free presets seem to have been no issue, however. I didn't try to DL the version 1.0 first, so I'll try that and see what happens. I'm not sure that Win10 Pro supports it. I vaguely remember many crashes when I tried to reinstall years ago. Rapture works fine and is currently installed on my computer, though I wasn't as fond of it.
> 
> I'll message you if there's an issue. Thanks so much for the help


Actually I just noticed I made a mistake here, I got my files through the CM Vault instead of the Cakewalk website. z3ta+ I can download from Cakewalk directly, but Rapture only has a text file that points towards the vault.

There's version 1.2.1 and the update to 1.2.2. The former will crash 100% of the time on W10. You have to manually put the update from the other file in the correct location, which I actually failed to do at first attempt >_<

I can send them to you later if you want.


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## outland (May 15, 2022)

LA68 said:


> Actually I just noticed I made a mistake here, I got my files through the CM Vault instead of the Cakewalk website. z3ta+ I can download from Cakewalk directly, but Rapture only has a text file that points towards the vault.
> 
> There's version 1.2.1 and the update to 1.2.2. The former will crash 100% of the time on W10. You have to manually put the update from the other file in the correct location, which I actually failed to do at first attempt >_<
> 
> I can send them to you later if you want.


Thanks for all your help!

I managed to DL the main file, update (I only needed 1.22; 1.21 DL'ed when I DL'ed the 1.0 file), and both expansions (which I actually did last night.) All installed very easily no muss, no fuss. The stand-alone may have a glitch (I've got to look at more closely), but the VST seems to work fine.

It's nice to have that back again. I remember really liking Rene's work on the filters and now I remember why.

Now, if I can only get Cypher 2 and Strobe 2 working well again, I'll be good to go. I think these issues may have to do with multi-threading (diagnostics says it's turned off in both synths.) There doesn't seem to be anything in the manual about it or how to turn it on. I vaguely remember talking to a techie at FXPansion about it before the company was bought by ROLI.


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## Akoustecx (Aug 15, 2022)

Iris 2. But for a GUI update, it would still be entirely relevant.
AAS String Studio VS-3. Chromaphone and VA-3 seem to get all the love (which is entirely deserved), but VS-3 is my favourite.


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## Bee_Abney (Aug 15, 2022)

Akoustecx said:


> Iris 2. But for a GUI update, it would still be entirely relevant.
> AAS String Studio VS-3. Chromaphone and VA-3 seem to get all the love (which is entirely deserved), but VS-3 is my favourite.


String Studio is my favourite, too. I think Chromaphone is better at what it is doing than String Studio is at what it does. But I prefer what String Studio does.

Iris 2 can sound wonderful. I find it difficult to program well, but many presets by others sound very good.


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## Akoustecx (Aug 15, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> String Studio is my favourite, too. I think Chromaphone is better at what it is doing than String Studio is at what it does. But I prefer what String Studio does.
> 
> Iris 2 can sound wonderful. I find it difficult to program well, but many presets by others sound very good.


Totally agree. Chromaphone is outstanding, as all the AAS products are, but VS-3 takes me places that nothing else in my collection can, without significantly more effort. I would like deeper modulation capabilities though, but I'm prepared to forgive them as they have per layer arpeggiation. Yummy!


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