# Examples of mixes with too much low end



## Pier (Aug 13, 2022)

Could you share mixes you think have too much low end?

I changed the pads on my headphones and I want to listen to stuff with too much low end to get a reference.


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## timprebble (Aug 13, 2022)




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## method1 (Aug 13, 2022)

Maybe not TOO much, but a lot:





This is something I mixed - the artist / producer are total bass-headz - its on the edge of too much.


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## KEM (Aug 13, 2022)

Any of my old tracks


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## heisenberg (Aug 13, 2022)

method1 said:


> This is something I mixed - the artist / producer are total bass-headz - its on the edge of too much.



Very good. Thanks for sharing.


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## Noeticus (Aug 13, 2022)

Have you seen the film "Tenet"?


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## Sombreuil (Aug 13, 2022)

Great song but sounds super muddy to me.


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## KEM (Aug 13, 2022)

Noeticus said:


> Have you seen the film "Tenet"?



WRONG


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## Pier (Aug 13, 2022)

timprebble said:


>



😂😂😂😂😂


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## Pier (Aug 13, 2022)

method1 said:


> This is something I mixed - the artist / producer are total bass-headz - its on the edge of too much.


You mean the Yugen track? Sounds ok to me. I'm probably a bass head too though 😂

Nice mix and awesome track btw.

The other ones you shared do have some sub bass but I wouldn't say it's too much for the genre.

This is my testing track to check the low end:


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## Pier (Aug 13, 2022)

Sombreuil said:


> Great song but sounds super muddy to me.


How are you listening to it?


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## jcrosby (Aug 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> You mean the Yugen track? Sounds ok to me. I'm probably a bass head too though 😂
> 
> Nice mix and awesome track btw.
> 
> ...



Great track, great album!


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## Cheezus (Aug 13, 2022)




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## method1 (Aug 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> You mean the Yugen track? Sounds ok to me. I'm probably a bass head too though 😂
> 
> Nice mix and awesome track btw.
> 
> ...



Yeah Angel is the gold standard for bass reference!

Another one I like is this:



Not that it's overly bassy but the great definition in the low end and Pino Palladino's super funky bass playing.


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## Sombreuil (Aug 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> How are you listening to it?


Sennheiser headphones EQ'ed with Oratory's curve.


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## Pier (Aug 13, 2022)

Cheezus said:


>



Yeah... that's too much IMO. They fucked it up with the mastering, probably.

It sounds muddy, and even seems to distort like around 1:08.


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## Pier (Aug 13, 2022)

method1 said:


> Another one I like is this:
> 
> 
> 
> Not that it's overly bassy but the great definition in the low end and Pino Palladino's super funky bass playing.


Woah great bass! Both the player and the sound.


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## method1 (Aug 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> Yeah... that's too much IMO. They fucked it up with the mastering, probably.
> 
> It sounds muddy, and even seems to distort like around 1:08.


Definitely distorting, I wonder if that's just Youtube's compression at breaking point?


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## method1 (Aug 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> Woah great bass! Both the player and the sound.




Pino is a bass beast!


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## Pier (Aug 13, 2022)

Sombreuil said:


> Sennheiser headphones EQ'ed with Oratory's curve.


You know... I've tried those curves on a couple of headphones and it always seem like too much for me. A lot of people seem to love them though.


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## Sombreuil (Aug 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> You know... I've tried those curves on a couple of headphones and it always seem like too much for me. A lot of people seem to love them though.


Oh yeah, to each his own. I can understand that the boost can be way too much. You can tweak it to your liking if needed.


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## method1 (Aug 13, 2022)

Just checking out oratory for the HD650 - that bass boost is no joke! 🤣


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## JSTube (Aug 13, 2022)

So, the video portion of this music video might be considered NSFW (it's on Youtube) but I'm not sure if actually posting a link to this video would be against forum rules or not, but the audio for the studio version of the infamous 'Island Boys' is on youtube, it's called: "Flyysoulja - I'm An Island Boy ft. Kodiyakredd"

and the mix is *really really* -- bad -- I can't tell if it's just too much saturation on the bass or if it's actually bad mastering or if the bass is clipping the whole mix in general!


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## Pier (Aug 13, 2022)

method1 said:


> Just checking out oratory for the HD650 - that bass boost is no joke! 🤣


Beware though. Fabfilter does not use standard q values.

I'm on my phone but lmk if you can't find the conversion.


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## Tronam (Aug 13, 2022)

Cheezus said:


>



Wow, that sounds awful. 😲 (Great game though!)


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## Tronam (Aug 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> Beware though. Fabfilter does not use standard q values.
> 
> I'm on my phone but lmk if you can't find the conversion.


I mean, I get it. 0.70607 is kind of an ugly number to represent the “industry standard” baseline Q value. Giving it a value of 1.0 instead is so much cleaner, but it makes translating Q settings between EQs a math problem by either multiplying or dividing by 1.414 depending on which direction. 😂


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## Alex Niedt (Aug 13, 2022)

Cheezus said:


>



Just looked this up on Spotify, and it sounds normal there, thank goodness. No idea what whoever uploaded this did to it first, but it sounds absolutely atrocious. Definitely not just a case of "YouTube compression", haha


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## CATDAD (Aug 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> Yeah... that's too much IMO. They fucked it up with the mastering, probably.
> 
> It sounds muddy, and even seems to distort like around 1:08.


I can confirm it doesn't sound like this in-game either. It's a processed track for sure, but the horrible pumping and distortion are unique to that Youtube upload!

I can't imagine Youtube's data compression would cause those "breathing" artifacts under any circumstance. Someone or something did some terrible post-master processing.

The first track in this compilation gives a much closer representation (though still doesn't quite have its original fidelity!):


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## liquidlino (Aug 13, 2022)

Sombreuil said:


> Great song but sounds super muddy to me.



Doesn't sound muddy at all to me. If anything sounds a little bright/brittle, could do with some warmth.


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## liquidlino (Aug 13, 2022)

Cheezus said:


>



Wow. How did that get released like that? Did no one actually listen to it before publishing? It's like someone just grabbed a limiter and said, "f*** it, I'm just going to slam it to -6 LUFS".


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## Henu (Aug 14, 2022)

My holy grail for checking the low end is always Korn's "Here to Stay".

 

This is one of the best masters I've ever head concerning the lows: it's pushed so "on the edge" that anything more is instantly too much and it's been serving me for years as the "line that should not be crossed on any circumstances".


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## MartinH. (Aug 14, 2022)

Pier said:


> Could you share mixes you think have too much low end?
> 
> I changed the pads on my headphones and I want to listen to stuff with too much low end to get a reference.



Why not take a track that you know to have "the right amount" of bass and boost the bass yourself by 6db or more?


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## AudioLoco (Aug 14, 2022)

Pier said:


> This is my testing track to check the low end:



This is THE benchmark track to test every system bass response for me too...
What Spike Stent has done is just incredible.
If it doesn't sound good it's the system at fault as it is bass-perfection balance.


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## oepion (Aug 14, 2022)

This is not a bad mix, but a very "sub heavy" mix that tends to distort when I listen to this in my car (it's got 2 subwoofers which obviously massively boosts the subs, but even so, none of the low-tuned metal and drum n bass tracks I listen to ever distort, only this album does!). There must be above-average low frequency energy on this album:



It's quite pronounced on Eclats de reve, Sanctum and Night poetry.

In comparison, even a sub-heavy DnB mix like this doesn't distort a single bit:


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## Pier (Aug 14, 2022)

Alex Niedt said:


> Just looked this up on Spotify, and it sounds normal there, thank goodness. No idea what whoever uploaded this did to it first, but it sounds absolutely atrocious. Definitely not just a case of "YouTube compression", haha


For some stupid reason the OST in Spotify isn't available in my country 😓


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## Pier (Aug 14, 2022)

AudioLoco said:


> What Spike Stent has done is just incredible.


The guy is a legend. He's worked on many of my favorite albums.


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## Pier (Aug 14, 2022)

oepion said:


> This is not a bad mix, but a very "sub heavy" mix that tends to distort when I listen to this in my car (it's got 2 subwoofers which obviously massively boosts the subs, but even so, none of the low-tuned metal and drum n bass tracks I listen to ever distort, only this album does!).


The bass is quite prominent and higher in pitch than the D&B stuff or the other track you shared. Maybe it's a mode in your car or something with the crossover?

Also what's up with that bathroom reverb in the snare 😂


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## Saxer (Aug 14, 2022)

Bassheavy but ok... except in most cars it's shaking the doors.


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## oepion (Aug 14, 2022)

Pier said:


> The bass is quite prominent and higher in pitch than the D&B stuff or the other track you shared. Maybe it's a mode in your car or something with the crossover?
> 
> Also what's up with that bathroom reverb in the snare 😂


I'd think bathroom reverb is well suited to LoFi. Most people don't want to hear anything HiFi coming from the cubicles.

Re: the car, it's perfectly neutral in terms of the EQ settings so I'm not sure what it is really. It sounds like a sort of simple sin wave sub so nothing too complex like with the DnB track yet it seems to carry a lot of extra energy.


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## Pier (Aug 14, 2022)

Saxer said:


> Bassheavy but ok... except in most cars it's shaking the doors.



Great bass IMO

Are those trumpets way too sibilant or it's my headphones?


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## Saxer (Aug 14, 2022)

Pier said:


> Great bass IMO
> 
> Are those trumpets way too sibilant or it's my headphones?


I think it's a kind of demanding arrangement for the listener... if that makes sense. But for me all "Steely Dan +" productions are on a reference level in all regards.


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## Pier (Aug 14, 2022)

oepion said:


> I'd think bathroom reverb is well suited to LoFi. Most people don't want to hear anything HiFi coming from the cubicles.


Ok ok but then why didn't they mix the snares on the other tracks of the album with that same reverb? Huh? 😂



oepion said:


> Re: the car, it's perfectly neutral in terms of the EQ settings so I'm not sure what it is really.


Like I mentioned earlier it could be an acoustic mode?

Maybe the acoustics of the car produce a heavy peak that rattles something?


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## vitocorleone123 (Aug 14, 2022)

Trying to think of "too much bass for the mix" since "too much bass" isn't necessarily bad. One that stood out to me was from awhile back... in 1991... where you get some talent (to me) outstripping gear and mixing/mastering, resulting in something that isn't necessarily bad, but a flip "flappy and loose" because the lowest end isn't controlled.

Hope this is the kind of thing you were looking for, where the track is a little unbalanced because of the bass, more than well-mixed and mastered tracks with lots of bass. I can always post those.

I really like this old track, but I remember issues on playback on several systems of the many years. In fact, I remember this CD (one of the first couple dozen I ever bought) coming with a WARNING sticker about the bass. As a younger teen I thought that was great. As an adult, I can hear it was because of the limitations (presumably).



I think my CD (or was it the cassette?) of Broken by NIN also came with a warning sticker about the bass. Been awhile since I took the shrink wrap off that one, so... maybe my memory is fuzzy on that.


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## oepion (Aug 14, 2022)

Pier said:


> Ok ok but then why didn't they mix the snares on the other tracks of the album with that same reverb? Huh? 😂


Good question! Well, maybe it's to do with the title, "fragments of dreams", that type of daydreaming, existential pondering on life tends to happen more often while sitting on the porcelain throne?



Pier said:


> Like I mentioned earlier it could be an acoustic mode?
> 
> Maybe the acoustics of the car produce a heavy peak that rattles something?


Sorry I misunderstood and thought you were talking about a setting on the stereo. That distortion is definitely accompanied by mechanical vibrations yes, but I'm just not sure why it happens more with that sub-bass than anything else. That's why I'm thinking that maybe it's got a lot more energy, maybe hasn't had a low cut or at least low shelf, and that while a human ear can't really hear them, they're there and causing all these vibrations once they've been boosted by the subwoofers. That DnB track in comparison has a lot more low end going on, and the pitch is also lower as you mentioned before, but maybe the low end was cleaned properly and that's why it doesn't rattle. Anyway, I tend to use Reki's tracks as reference for the low end, as in if I have as much as he does then I know it's too much and I need to cut it down (I've learned that just recently mixing a LoFi song and trying to mimic what he did, only to find out it sounded horrible in my car due to way way too much bass).


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## method1 (Aug 14, 2022)

This one has some pleasing thump, apply 8db @31hz oratory boost for extra.


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## Pier (Aug 14, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Trying to think of "too much bass for the mix" since "too much bass" isn't necessarily bad. One that stood out to me was from awhile back... in 1991... where you get some talent (to me) outstripping gear and mixing/mastering, resulting in something that isn't necessarily bad, but a flip "flappy and loose" because the lowest end isn't controlled.
> 
> Hope this is the kind of thing you were looking for, where the track is a little unbalanced because of the bass, more than well-mixed and mastered tracks with lots of bass. I can always post those.
> 
> ...



Maybe it's because of boom boxes of that era? I remember "bass reflex" being everywhere in the 90s. As a teenager I loved those things.

Or maybe it was just marketing 

The NiN stuff from the 90s doesn't sound bass heavy to me. The high end OTOH is way too overhyped IMO. This is from "happiness in slavery" from the Broken album you mentioned.


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## vitocorleone123 (Aug 14, 2022)

Pier said:


> Maybe it's because of boom boxes of that era? I remember "bass reflex" being everywhere in the 90s. As a teenager I loved those things.
> 
> Or maybe it was just marketing
> 
> The NiN stuff from the 90s doesn't sound bass heavy to me. The high end OTOH is way too overhyped IMO. This is from "happiness in slavery" from the Broken album you mentioned.


On Broken, I think it was just a couple of moments in a track or two where the bass seemed to get out of control vs. modern mixing/mastering. Like the engineer was trying to control a wild beast, but it got it's taloned paw out and took a swipe at someone before they beat it back with cattle prods.


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## synthetic (Aug 14, 2022)

“Story of Light” and “Into the Paradise” by William Orbit (from Strange Cargo) have sub bass that caused some speakers I was testing to break up. I used bluetooth from my phone and the speakers (PA speakers with 12” woofers) were crapping out at any level. You don’t necessarily want a lot of 5Hz in your mix. A lot of huge-sounding radio mixes from the 80s have no sub bass. Like “Some Like It Hot” by Power Station sounded great in your car but thin on studio monitors.


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## method1 (Aug 14, 2022)

Pier said:


> Maybe it's because of boom boxes of that era? I remember "bass reflex" being everywhere in the 90s. As a teenager I loved those things.
> 
> Or maybe it was just marketing
> 
> The NiN stuff from the 90s doesn't sound bass heavy to me. The high end OTOH is way too overhyped IMO. This is from "happiness in slavery" from the Broken album you mentioned.


Can't remember where I read it, but I once heard that overhyped treble, bass-light sound of the mid 80s - early 90s attributed to "cocaine & ns-10s"


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## LatinXCombo (Aug 17, 2022)

Cheezus said:


>



When you can feel the bass through your 2.5" Creative Pebble desktop speakers...it might be a tad much.


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## NekujaK (Aug 17, 2022)

Billie Eilish's first album is famously mixed bass-heavy.


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## LatinXCombo (Aug 17, 2022)

Pier said:


> Great bass IMO
> 
> Are those trumpets way too sibilant or it's my headphones?


I don't know if I'd say sibilant, but definitely "smooth in an over-processed way." (But of course, I'm listening on 2.5" Creative Pebble desktop speakers, so there's that.)


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## Joël Dollié (Aug 17, 2022)

LatinXCombo said:


> When you can feel the bass through your 2.5" Creative Pebble desktop speakers...it might be a tad much.


Never played Elden ring but I'm a bit shocked by this mix considering the budget of the game, it's all muddy and there's compression artifacts. the harmony is completely destroyed by the bass. It's like the chords and horns are an afterthought. It's hard to even follow or hear the brass harmony, pretty shocking. The loudest parts sound like when you crank proL2 to the max and just let the algorithm try to sort it out and do its best to avoid hardcore clipping so you end up with massive fluttering/limiting artifacts.


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## LatinXCombo (Aug 17, 2022)

Joël Dollié said:


> Never played Elden ring but I'm a bit shocked by this mix considering the budget of the game, it's all muddy and there's compression artifacts. the harmony is completely destroyed by the bass. It's like the chords and horns are an afterthought. It's hard to even follow or hear the brass harmony, pretty shocking. The loudest parts sound like when you crank proL2 to the max and just let the algorithm try to sort it out and do its best to avoid hardcore clipping so you end up with massive fluttering/limiting artifacts.


Someone above mentioned that the mix in-game feels better.

I also wonder if it's one of those things where the mix in-game works alongside the sound effects and dialogues in steel-against-steel battle or somesuch, but not necessarily standalone? (Haven't played it either.)


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## Pier (Aug 17, 2022)

Joël Dollié said:


> Never played Elden ring but I'm a bit shocked by this mix considering the budget of the game


Most likely someone messed up the mastering before uploading to Youtube. If you listen to other versions on Youtube or Spotify it doesn't sound like _that_.


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## Pier (Aug 17, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> Billie Eilish's first album is famously mixed bass-heavy.


Oh yeah that's true. Thanks I had forgotten about that one!


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## antret (Aug 17, 2022)

Cheezus said:


>



That’s how my songs look!


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## WhiteNoiz (Aug 18, 2022)




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## LatinXCombo (Aug 19, 2022)

WhiteNoiz said:


>



That bass wasn't overboosted as much as the game it was written for was overhyped.


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