# Studio Monitor - How neutral are they??



## constaneum (May 14, 2017)

I've been composing for a while and my friend keeps on telling me that my music lacks of bass from his gear. However, from my KRK Rokit 5, bass sounded alright. My friend told me KRK Rokit 5 isn't really that neutral. It's more towards a "colored" monitor. anyone has such issue and what workaround solution will you opt for? Will need some advice here.


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## Smikes77 (May 14, 2017)

What is he playing your music on?


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## constaneum (May 14, 2017)

Sennheiser HD 600


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## SchnookyPants (May 14, 2017)

The Beige seem to go with everything.


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## Nathanael Iversen (May 14, 2017)

Rooms are much more colored than any monitor... And they color EVERY monitor. That said, it is going to take listening on a bunch of systems to learn your monitors and how they translate to other setups.


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## SchnookyPants (May 14, 2017)

constaneum said:


> ......................... my music lacks of bass from his gear.....



Exactly. So maybe _his_ gear is the problem. What's he listening on? Do you agree with his opinion of mixes other than yours? When you compare your mixes to professional material of a similar ilk, how's it stack up? Soooo many variables. I wouldn't exactly throw the Rokits out with the bath water... er... Mix.

Wait! (just noticed this) He's comparing them to listening on a set of cans!?


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## Ashermusic (May 14, 2017)

It is pretty simple to test. Do a mix and burn out on a CD. Play it on other sources, like a boombox, a phone, a car stereo, bigger speakers if you can get access to them.

it will not sound identical no matter what, but if nothing leaps out at you as "oh boy" then your ears and their relationship to your mixing environment, including your speakers, is serving you well.

On my system, if the bass sounds perfect, I know I need to dial it back just a smidge because of my sub-woofer.

That said, personally I don't trust the KRK Rokits.


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## synthnut1 (May 14, 2017)

A lot of the advise above is good advise .....Every set of monitors is different , and it's a matter of getting to know your monitors no matter how flat or how hyped they are .....As Jay said that he knows when the bass sound's perfect that he needs to dial back the bass a bit ... Some of your more expensive monitors are very neutral and what you hear is what you get ..... There are still slight variables that you need to learn about your monitors as neutral as they might be ....You still have to account for the very LOW bass that your monitors may NOT be able to bring out ...Knowing your monitors will allow you to account for this .... Another problem is that folks will listen to monitors and buy the ones that the music sounds best on ....These monitors might be hyped like hifi speakers and are not giving you the true flat sound that you are looking for .... They are hyped and sound better than the monitor that is flat /neutral .....YMMV ....Jim


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## Smikes77 (May 14, 2017)

First thing I would do is to go over to his place and have a listen on his gear and see if you agree.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (May 14, 2017)

Why not measure your room? It won't tell you everything but will give a general idea of what's going on in there with you monitors.


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## Kent (May 14, 2017)

I've been under the impression that the frequency response (i.e. "neutrality") is not really the most important thing to worry about in monitors, since there is no such thing as a flat monitor or a flat room, but rather it is the transient response time that makes a monitor worth trusting or not (which explains the Auratones' or NS-10s' worthiness despite obvious EQ "flaws").

The KRKs, to my ears, have both a low-mid bump (not the best, but your ears could adjust) and a lot of mushiness/poor transient response time (which is the real killer). I can't stand them.


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## Tiko (May 14, 2017)

Rokit's are a bit boomy with pronounced bass, so when the bass sounds balanced on them it usually is lacking on systems that are more flat.


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## Fab (May 14, 2017)

Do you listen to loads of other music through the same setup?

You could reference a well produced track you both know in the style you write in and then write something with a similar sound. Send your piece and the ref track to your friend.

If its close enough and he thinks it's better then maybe he isn't wrong.


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## jtnyc (May 14, 2017)

I don't know those KRK's well, but I do remember them being kinda hyped in the bottom end. I do know the HD 600s your friend is using and I find them to be a very reliable reference. I use Dynaudio BM5a's, Auratone Mixcubes and HD600s when mixing. The BM5a's are very reliable all around and sound great. The Mixcubes serve to quickly balance the midrange and see what might be poking out, like vocals, guitar or snare drum. Remember that the louder you monitor the more your room will play into fooling you. Always spend some time listening at lower volumes and if your still unsure of your low end, AB it to a track that you know well and like. It's good to have an alternative like a second set of speaker, boombox or good headphones. There is a plugin called Mix AB that allows you to switch between up to 6 different reference songs and your mix while your mixing. It inserts on your master bus and you load your preferred ref songs. this could help, especially if your unsure of your speakers and it will help you get to know them faster. 

Good luck


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## jcrosby (May 14, 2017)

constaneum said:


> I've been composing for a while and my friend keeps on telling me that my music lacks of bass from his gear. However, from my KRK Rokit 5, bass sounded alright. My friend told me KRK Rokit 5 isn't really that neutral. It's more towards a "colored" monitor. anyone has such issue and what workaround solution will you opt for? Will need some advice here.



Any monitor is going to be more neutral than your room. No matter how compelling an argument one might make about a pair of monitors, the fact is you can't argue the physics of sound. 

KRKs are relatively flat when compared to a typical untreated room; the largest peak or dip in the Rokit's response is somewhere around +/- 3dB, a deviation about 5-6 dB. 
Rooms can have deviations 30 dB or more. http://realtraps.com/art_measuring.htm

Putting the highest end monitor you can afford in a typical room will net you virtually zero improvement, especially if the speaker has greater low end response; the more low end pressure you put into a room the more you agitate room issues... (And the first place these issues make themselves apparent in a mix is in the low end...) 

You can try and fight physics with expensive monitors, but why? I'd recommend reading the link and look at it from the perspective of how your room effects what you perceive the frequency response of your speakers to be...


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## constaneum (May 14, 2017)

thanks for the tips, fella. My room isn't a common studio like setup room as i'm just a hobbyist turns commercial and dealing with small commercial works (it's basically just a little DAW workspace at a corner end of a room). Not earning enough to justify such proper setup. Since I don't have enough justification financially to setup a proper studio room, should i get a headset instead for mixing purpose? Will that be help? Thanks !


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## Gerhard Westphalen (May 14, 2017)

Getting headphones would help give you a different opinion of how things are sounding. The best thing to do would be to learn how things sound in there (measuring the room response would help get an idea of what's going on) and learn to compensate for those things.


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## Vastman (May 14, 2017)

So much good advice already! Hugely important is your ROOM, including speaker placement within a room. Take some time to study up on this area... It's free! Room treatments are also pretty inexpensive, especially do it yourself stuff... Google is your free friend here.


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## ctsai89 (May 14, 2017)

As long as you own something called "studio monitors" you're good as long as you got the right size for your room. Past that: you learn them over time and you will use them better than any monitors that appears to be more accurate.


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## constaneum (May 14, 2017)

ok. thanks fellas !


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## jtnyc (May 14, 2017)

The KRKs can work for you. Just make it a point to get to know them. Reference tracks that you know and like, and see what their bass is like. Use that as a starting point, then check you mix on different systems like your friends 600s or your car stereo. Once you do that for awhile, you'll start to get a feel for where the bass should be on the KRKs. A set of good headphones could be helpful, but I wouldn't recommend mixing solely on headphones.


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## ctsai89 (May 14, 2017)

Oh and I use the Rokit krk g3 6 as well.

Honestly they are the most popular budget studio monitors for a reason. 

The bass in your music (especially rock, EDM, trance, etc) is going to be the most prominent and hardest thing to mix correctly (easiest to make mixing mistakes on). With KRK's front firing bass port and good general boosted bass, I can basically hear all of my subwoofing bassline notes at its first harmonic/partial, without a subwoofer clearly. I can't really say it's the same for other monitors at the same size. Even some 8 inch monitors don't do it as well as the KRK's. Some bass notes sound louder than another on certain monitors.


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## constaneum (May 15, 2017)

Anyway....perhaps i should put the link to the music which my friend commented. I'm in the midst of releasing this instrumental album which features purely sounds from sample libraries with leading instruments of Viola from Chris Hein and Bohemian Violin. Here's a trailer preview of the music with bits and pieces from here and there. Would like to hear your opinions on the sufficiency of the bass.


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## Smikes77 (May 15, 2017)

constaneum said:


> Anyway....perhaps i should put the link to the music which my friend commented. I'm in the midst of releasing this instrumental album which features purely sounds from sample libraries with leading instruments of Viola from Chris Hein and Bohemian Violin. Here's a trailer preview of the music with bits and pieces from here and there. Would like to hear your opinions on the sufficiency of the bass.





I was going to say... 

Everyone's advice is on the premise that your friend is correct in his analysis. 

Let's have a listen...


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## ctsai89 (May 15, 2017)

constaneum said:


> Anyway....perhaps i should put the link to the music which my friend commented. I'm in the midst of releasing this instrumental album which features purely sounds from sample libraries with leading instruments of Viola from Chris Hein and Bohemian Violin. Here's a trailer preview of the music with bits and pieces from here and there. Would like to hear your opinions on the sufficiency of the bass.




could have slightly more bass (only my opinion). Seems like you're trying to do some kind of trance kick drum from towards the end. Check out how hard trance kicks can sound on a industry standard track:



^ the kick drum definitely has tons of highs and lows and not a lot of mid. Not saying your track needs to have that much bass but I think it needs to have at least a 50% more power than that. Other wise it really sounds good and sounds ready to release.


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## Daisser (Jun 16, 2017)

I gotta admit, I found fighting my room to be one of the most frustrating realities of music creation. You can't buy your way out of it with equipment because physics is your adversary here. Bass traping, speaker placement are key but in many home studios this gets you only so far. You'll here people making all sorts of adjustments based off feedback from other systems and experience. You could build a room from scratch with help from professionals but this can be insanely expensive. This was extra hard for a novice like me since I'm not sure my ear understands what is "right" to begin with.

When I first started out making music I messed around with fixing my room but honestly couldn't really fix it (can't move my PC from the worst spot to mix) and let it go. But people kept pointing out my mixes were off esp in the bass area I began to say is there ANYTHING that can help.

My research led me to ARC room correction software. It places a transient EQ over the master bus in your DAW. The EQ curve is created by using their reference mic and listening to your room. You turn it off when exporting your audio (as the EQ is only meant for your room) so there's no coloring of the final audio. Does it work? I independently did tests with an ECM8000 mic and found my sine curves were much closer to benchmark then ever and immediately my orchestration teacher noted a dramatic improvement in my mix. You still need to do room improvements first and if your room is already good this will help even more.

Soooo, if your thinking about new speakers considering if they are flat you have the you test it with sinesweeps and db meters. ARC costs $300 (I got it 150 on sale) and could do more for your room then a $1000 pair of monitors. Google it and check it out.


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