# HEADPHONES - Favorite for sound and comfort while writing with libraries & editing for long hours - Sennheiser HD280, Beyerdynamic DT770 & others?



## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 18, 2020)

Hello all, 

Currently, I am wearing a pair of Sennheiser HD280 Pro headphones while composing music with sample libraries and also doing many hours of editing and rough mixing before I send things to someone else for proper mixing. I am currently working very long hours on music. Several friends recommended the Sennheiser HD280's and said they were good for many reasons - isolation, comfort, value and a relatively accurate sound reproduction without too much bass or treble and good detail in the middle. 

I bought these before starting my composition course at university. I take composing seriously. I am not out partying. I am taking my music studies seriously.

*Positives*
I find the HD280 Pro headphones to be detailed and accurate when listening back to things I have done a rough mix on while listening on other playback systems and speakers. No surprises which is good.

*Negatives*
After about two hours, it feels like they are pinching my head and the sides of my ears get sore. I always tie my hair back in a pony tail so the ear pads are not covering my hair or sitting in an awkward way on my head. Sometimes I get a headache just from wearing them for a few hours. Perhaps I am not taking enough breaks but I do wish they were more comfortable. I also find that because the midrange is so detailed and present that it gets harsh after a while and there is some ear fatigue. After five hours it is really noticeable. 

Sometimes it sounds like something is overloading and distorting during audio peaks - pushing hard in the midrange or when there is an abundance of low end. So yes, on some of the audio peaks, there is some fuzz that happens with the drivers. 

*Alternatives*
I noticed that all of the Spitfire Audio team are wearing the Beyerdynamic DT770 headphones which got me thinking that maybe these would be better headphones for working with sample libraries, doing long hours of composing and editing? Those soft grey ear pads defintiely look comfy and the size of the ear pads looks much larger with more room for the ears. 

I would love to get some opinions. Everyone deserves to give their opinion so please share yours if you have time thank you!


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## JEPA (May 18, 2020)

I will be buying Beyerdynamic DT770 tomorrow (I need headphnes too, mine are broken). Too many good reviews, studio standard, etc. Look for example www.thomann.de reviews under search>Beyerdynamic DT770


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## JEPA (May 18, 2020)

JEPA said:


> I will be buying Beyerdynamic DT770 tomorrow (I need headphnes too, mine are broken). Too many good reviews, studio standard, etc. Look for example www.thomann.de reviews under search>Beyerdynamic DT770


specially for working long hours!


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 18, 2020)

JEPA said:


> specially for working long hours!


Thank you for your vote for the DT770's JEPA. Have you ever tried the Sennheiser HD280 Pro?


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## JEPA (May 18, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Thank you for your vote for the DT770's JEPA. Have you ever tried the Sennheiser HD280 Pro?


Not yet. I had an error. I will buy this, the Pro version:
*beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 250 Ohm*


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 18, 2020)

JEPA said:


> Not yet. I had an error. I will buy this, the Pro version:
> *beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 250 Ohm*


Are the 250 ohm ones the same as the 80 ohm version, but with less output volume?


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## prodigalson (May 18, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> I am not out partying. I am taking my music studies seriously.



For what it's worth, going out and having a good time, especially in college, doesn't mean you're not taking your studies and career seriously. Everyone needs work/life balance so enjoy your college years while they last!


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 18, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> For what it's worth, going out and having a good time, especially in college, doesn't mean you're not taking your studies and career seriously. Everyone needs work/life balance so enjoy your college years while they last!


Yes, that is true although I did take a year off for travel in 2019 and had quite a lot of fun. These days I am focused on my studies and wish to be taken seriously.


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## rhizomusicosmos (May 18, 2020)

The Beyerdynamics are usually recommended for comfort but do remember that everyone's head and ear geometries are different. So sadly one person's perfect fit might be another's uncomfortable nightmare.

I have a small head and find the Beyer DT770, 880 and 990 to be very comfortable over long sessions. But sufficient clamping force for me might too much for someone with a bigger head. 

The DT770 have a pronounced peak at around 10 kHz and some dips at 200 Hz and 4 kHz. I'd suggest some corrective EQ to smooth out the response, but I would suggest this for the Sennheiser HD280, too.


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## gsilbers (May 18, 2020)

check out also sonarworks that i think has profiles for those headphones. so mixes translate better. 
i like the hd600.


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## JEPA (May 18, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Are the 250 ohm ones the same as the 80 ohm version, but with less output volume?


yes it is. These are for long working hours. You need a headphone preamp or audio interface with headphone jack (it usually comes with preamp for them).


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## prodigalson (May 18, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Yes, that is true although I did take a year off for travel in 2019 and had quite a lot of fun. These days I am focused on my studies and wish to be taken seriously.



Good for you! I would just say that your social life, or lack thereof, has no bearing on whether you're taken "seriously", at least professionally. All that matters is the quality of your work and if you can meet a deadline. We often have to sacrifice our "life" in favor of our "work" but that is only to meet the deadline, not out of concern that if we have a life we won't bet taken "seriously". 

My two cents! Best of luck!


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 18, 2020)

rhizomusicosmos said:


> The Beyerdynamics are usually recommended for comfort but do remember that everyone's head and ear geometries are different. So sadly one person's perfect fit might be another's uncomfortable nightmare.
> 
> I have a small head and find the Beyer DT770, 880 and 990 to be very comfortable over long sessions. But sufficient clamping force for me might too much for someone with a bigger head.
> 
> The DT770 have a pronounced peak at around 10 kHz and some dips at 200 Hz and 4 kHz. I'd suggest some corrective EQ to smooth out the response, but I would suggest this for the Sennheiser HD280, too.


Thank you! That is some excellent information Rhizomusicosm. If you would know, what are the peaks and dips with the Sennheiser HD280 headphones?


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 18, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> check out also sonarworks that i think has profiles for those headphones. so mixes translate better.
> i like the hd600.


Thank you! Sonarworks must be some kind of equalizer that goes on the master buss that compensates for specific equalization profiles in specific monitoring path gear like headphones and speakers yes?

I have a pair of the HD600 headphones as well but they are open back and my roommate complains that she can hear the music I am working on very loud when she is trying to sleep.


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## gsilbers (May 18, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Thank you! Sonarworks must be some kind of equalizer that goes on the master buss that compensates for specific equalization profiles in specific monitoring path gear like headphones and speakers yes?
> 
> I have a pair of the HD600 headphones as well but they are open back and my roommate complains that she can hear the music I am working on very loud when she is trying to sleep.



wow thats loud. 
my left ear is fuked so i have to listen lower volumes when composing and only raise it when i mix. 


yes, phase and linear eq to compensates for a flat response. you can do a trial with the hd600.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 18, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> wow thats loud.
> my left ear is fuked so i have to listen lower volumes when composing and only raise it when i mix.
> 
> 
> yes, phase and linear eq to compensates for a flat response. you can do a trial with the hd600.


I don't listen that loud! Her bed is beside my work desk.

I took a look at Sonarworks. I wonder if there is way that you can just make your own EQ profile of the headphones you own and then copy the reverse of it into Fabfilter Pro-Q to compensate?


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## gsilbers (May 18, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> I don't listen that loud! Her bed is beside my work desk.
> 
> I took a look at Sonarworks. I wonder if there is way that you can just make your own EQ profile of the headphones you own and then copy the reverse of it into Fabfilter Pro-Q to compensate?




for speakers there are phase issues... not sure for headphones. i remember seeing some posts about that question here or at gearlutz. 

but yeah, i think you could do something similar if you download it, copy the paramters and use it in proq.


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## BenG (May 18, 2020)

I use the DT880 Pro's and love them. Comfortable, flat sound, well-built and perfect for the studio. Been using them for years.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 18, 2020)

BenG said:


> I use the DT880 Pro's and love them. Comfortable, flat sound, well-built and perfect for the studio. Been using them for years.


Thank you for your advice Ben G! Do you know what the differences are between the 880 and the 770?


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## rhizomusicosmos (May 18, 2020)

If you want to try headphone equalization on the cheap, you can look at these measurements and recommended parametric EQ settings for the HD280s:








AutoEq/results/innerfidelity/innerfidelity_harman_over-ear_2018/Sennheiser HD 280 Pro at master · jaakkopasanen/AutoEq


Automatic headphone equalization from frequency responses - AutoEq/results/innerfidelity/innerfidelity_harman_over-ear_2018/Sennheiser HD 280 Pro at master · jaakkopasanen/AutoEq




github.com





The AutoEQ project aggregates measurements from various sites -- all non-professional, so probably not at the standard or consistency of something like Sonarworks.

There are also convolution WAV files that you can load into a convolution plug-in, it you have one.


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## BassClef (May 18, 2020)

I have the 280Pros and they are the best at keeping outside sounds from your ears. However they are not as detailed as I like and also find them bass heavy. Also, I can not wear them more than a couple hours as their really tight fit is part of their isolation capability. For comfort, detail and effortless natural sound, I use my HD 650s for most mixing. Good luck on your choice.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 18, 2020)

rhizomusicosmos said:


> If you want to try headphone equalization on the cheap, you can look at these measurements and recommended parametric EQ settings for the HD280s:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting. Thank you for sharing this resource. It is something I had not thought of.


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## ryans (May 18, 2020)

DT770 pro are very good, I had a pair, 80ohm version.. sold it last year.

Huge bass.. and I found them really comfortable. They are a bit too much in the 10k region (like all the Beyerdynamics I've tried) but this might not bother most people... and can be corrected with eq...

For a closed back headphone they are an excellent choice.

Ryan


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## Robo Rivard (May 18, 2020)

Closed back headphones drive me crazy. After an hour, my brain feels roasted.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 18, 2020)

BassClef said:


> I have the 280Pros and they are the best at keeping outside sounds from your ears. However they are not as detailed as I like and also find them bass heavy. Also, I can not wear them more than a couple hours as their really tight fit is part of their isolation capability. For comfort, detail and effortless natural sound, I use my HD 650s for most mixing. Good luck on your choice.


Thank you Bass Clef. I agree that the 280 has a really tight fit and there is great discomfort after a couple of hours. I question if this squeezing the head feeling is mutual with everyone?


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## jononotbono (May 18, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> I took a look at Sonarworks. I wonder if there is way that you can just make your own EQ profile of the headphones you own and then copy the reverse of it into Fabfilter Pro-Q to compensate?



Sonarworks is a good solution and one of the greatest things about it is Systemwide. This means the Correction is applied to all audio on your system. Be it YouTube, movies, iTunes, DAW output etc. It makes everything you listen to consistent so you always know what you are listening to. There's no point in using an EQ curve on your DAW master bu and then when you listen to audio on the same system everything will sound different. You won't ever learn what you're hearing otherwise. So it's definitely worth the money if your headphones need it (which is most).




Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Do you know what the differences are between the 880 and the 770?



The 770s are closed back and the 880s are Semi Closed back. As you're after isolation from your room mate then the 770s would be a better choice.


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## rhizomusicosmos (May 18, 2020)

The DT880 are semi-open and will leak more sound out into the room than the DT770 but they are also more neutral. I think the DT770 are probably the best option to avoid disturbing your room mate [@jononotbono got in first!].

Clamping force (how tightly headphones squeeze your head) is also a factor in how headphones are tuned for sound. Some headphones, mostly closed ones, require a good clamp to sound their best and will often have attenuated low frequencies if they fit loosely.

I use two headphones consistently for music creation:

Beyerdynamic DT880 Edition (600 ohm)
Pros: good sound and respond very well to equalization; comfortable for long sessions; solid build
Cons: semi-open -- I can hear my computer fans when the CPU is being pushed; fixed cable that is a nuisance to repair; needs an amplifier with good voltage range to drive them.

Audio Technica MSR7
Pros: closed with good isolation; a good fit for my small head; easy to drive; removable/replaceable cable
Cons: needs equalisation and not as detailed as the Beyers; can be uncomfortable after a while

My most comfortable headphones are a pair of Audio Technica AD900 that barely apply any pressure, but they are also my most leaky and not good for tracking or mixing. They are also far from neutral sounding.

Best isolation and comfort, however, would be a pair of IEMs with custom-molded ear tips . . .


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## JEPA (May 18, 2020)

I have heard another custom brand in this forum and I think this brand was making BF deal last year, but I lost track and forgot the name... anybody?


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## jononotbono (May 18, 2020)

What is your budget for headphones? That’s the real question here because there are way better choices if the budget is there.


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## JEPA (May 18, 2020)

I don't know if you are asking the OP but I could invest some €150, could be...


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## jononotbono (May 18, 2020)

JEPA said:


> I don't know if you are asking the OP but I could invest some €150, could be...



I was asking the OP but it doesn't matter. I'm not sure what's best for €150. Some 770s or ATH M50s probably. They are good for tracking but working with them for long writing sessions? I get ear fatigue as they are so bright. Sonarworks can help them though.


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## JEPA (May 18, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I was asking the OP but it doesn't matter. I'm not sure what's best for €150. Some 770s or ATH M50s probably. They are good for tracking but working with them for long writing sessions? I get ear fatigue as they are so bright. Sonarworks can help them though.


what are your working headphones and how loud do you set them?


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## jononotbono (May 18, 2020)

JEPA said:


> what are your working headphones and how loud do you set them?



I'm now using a pair of Audeze LCD-X. No going back now. I plug them into an Apollo Twin X Interface as the headphone amp in that is actually very good. I don't really have a specific volume for them other than what I feel like but let's just say not too loud. You don't need them loud. You can hear everything and the sound stage is huge. I've just done 2 weeks of nearly 20 hour days writing with them for the West World Competition and I've not once had ear fatigue. Truly incredible things. They do a closed back version called the LCDXC. They are the best closed backs you can buy but the bass response is better on the LCD-X. However, the price jump with these compared to a pair of 770s is definitely a price jump.

I still use a pair of ATH M50s but only for tracking. I also have a pair of 990s and I did really like them until I got the Audeze.

Another pair of good headphones is the Sennheiser 650s. But they are still no LCDX.

I was forced to have to work on headphones in my current living situation as I can't have monitors (and monitors are kind of pointless any way when you have a shit room) so I had to invest in a pair of something decent. Still, I totally understand budget and if €150 is what the budget is, and someone is looking for closed backs, then I'd probably get some 770s or M50s as a temporary solution and then think about upgrading to something godlike later.


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## JEPA (May 18, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I'm now using a pair of Audeze LCD-X. No going back now. I plug them into an Apollo Twin X Interface as the headphone amp in that is actually very good. I don't really have a specific volume for them other than what I feel like but let's just say not too loud. You don't need them loud. You can hear everything and the sound stage is huge. I've just done 2 weeks of nearly 20 hour days writing with them for the West World Competition and I've not once had ear fatigue. Truly incredible things. They do a closed back version called the LCDXC. They are the best closed backs you can buy but the bass response is better on the LCD-X. However, the price jump with these compared to a pair of 770s is definitely a price jump.
> 
> I still use a pair of ATH M50s but only for tracking. I also have a pair of 990s and I did really like them until I got the Audeze.
> 
> ...


thanks for the good advice!


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## cmillar (May 18, 2020)

I've owned the Beyerdynamic DT 770Pro 250ohm for over ten years now. (only had to replace the cable years ago when my young 2 year old mangled them at the time for some reason only known to a child!)

Love them. And, I've also been using Sonarworks for mixing using the headphones and my monitors. 
I've found that I really can do a nice mix using the headphones and Sonarworks if I need to. I'd rather use my monitors all the time, but it's great to know that I can really depend on the 770's and Sonarworks if I need to as well.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 18, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Sonarworks is a good solution and one of the greatest things about it is Systemwide. This means the Correction is applied to all audio on your system. Be it YouTube, movies, iTunes, DAW output etc. It makes everything you listen to consistent so you always know what you are listening to. There's no point in using an EQ curve on your DAW master bu and then when you listen to audio on the same system everything will sound different. You won't ever learn what you're hearing otherwise. So it's definitely worth the money if your headphones need it (which is most).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How does Sonarworks apply the frequency correction to your whole system? The process has to be applied at some point in the signal path, so where might that be Mr. Jono Not Bono?


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## jononotbono (May 18, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> How does Sonarworks apply the frequency correction to your whole system? The process has to be applied at some point in the signal path, so where might that be Mr. Jono Not Bono?



Because it runs in the background and uses the same correction EQ that you set. When you load your DAW, the plugin version of Sonarworks hijacks control of systemwide (essentially disables System Wide) so there aren't 2 instances of it running. When you close your DAW, Systemwide automatically turns back on.


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## jononotbono (May 18, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> How does Sonarworks apply the frequency correction to your whole system? The process has to be applied at some point in the signal path, so where might that be Mr. Jono Not Bono?



I believe there's a free trial. Try it out and see if you like it. There are included Headphone profiles so hopefully you will find your model of headphone and although these aren't 100%accurate, it will be in the right ball park. If you want the headphones to work 100% accurately with Sonarworks then there are two options. You either send your headphones to Sonarworks and they will create a specific profile for those exact headphones or you can buy a pair of headphones from them and they will come with a specific profile.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 18, 2020)

rhizomusicosmos said:


> The DT880 are semi-open and will leak more sound out into the room than the DT770 but they are also more neutral. I think the DT770 are probably the best option to avoid disturbing your room mate [@jononotbono got in first!].
> 
> Clamping force (how tightly headphones squeeze your head) is also a factor in how headphones are tuned for sound. Some headphones, mostly closed ones, require a good clamp to sound their best and will often have attenuated low frequencies if they fit loosely.
> 
> ...


Indeed. When I push my 280 pads in, squeezing my head, there is a natural rise in the bottom end.

Also, if I lay on the floor with my headphones on, I get less bass. The same thing happens if I lean forward. You have to be sitting upright with proper posture to get the intended bass response from headphones. Any other position and the bass becomes attenuated and the sound spectrum becomes obscured.

Thank you for letting me know about these other heaphone choices. I appreciate it very much Rhizomusicosmos. There is an audio shop in Reykjavík with a good selection of headphones. I will keep your suggestions on hand when I go into town to take my decision. Listen to all of them, I will.

The DT880 sounds like it could be even better than the DT770. My current living situation may inhibit my choices to isolated headphone pads for now. I share a room at my residence and we are both music students. Neither her nor I can afford to live alone so we share a small room together and I need to be able to work quietly while she sleeps. She always goes to bed before me and I usually stay up most of the night working on my own ideas using these beautiful sample libraries I have recently discovered.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 18, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> What is your budget for headphones? That’s the real question here because there are way better choices if the budget is there.


I want to get the best pair of headphones I can that will work for my situation. My grandmother gave me some money for my birthday this month and she is always very generous. I will not try to save money on headphones because I think the quality of what I am hearing is very important. I am using an RME UFX II audio interface and Reaper. RME is German engineering and the sound of Reaper with this interface took my breath away when I first listened to something that I was working on with my previous setup.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 18, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I'm now using a pair of Audeze LCD-X. No going back now. I plug them into an Apollo Twin X Interface as the headphone amp in that is actually very good. I don't really have a specific volume for them other than what I feel like but let's just say not too loud. You don't need them loud. You can hear everything and the sound stage is huge. I've just done 2 weeks of nearly 20 hour days writing with them for the West World Competition and I've not once had ear fatigue. Truly incredible things. They do a closed back version called the LCDXC. They are the best closed backs you can buy but the bass response is better on the LCD-X. However, the price jump with these compared to a pair of 770s is definitely a price jump.
> 
> I still use a pair of ATH M50s but only for tracking. I also have a pair of 990s and I did really like them until I got the Audeze.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your straight forward honest opinion Jono.

What percentage of a shift in sound quality would you say the Audeze LCDXC (closed back) headphone is when compared to the Beyerdynamic DT770? 

What were your perceived differences?

Also, what was the price difference for you?

I have heard good things about Audeze headphones from other people.


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## jononotbono (May 18, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Thank you for your straight forward honest opinion Jono.
> 
> What percentage of a shift in sound quality would you say the Audeze LCDXC (closed back) headphone is when compared to the Beyerdynamic DT770?
> 
> ...



Well the price jump is a lot. I had to save for months and eat very little when I bought them. I bought the LCDX for $1000 but the 770s are about $120. It's a huge price difference but it's a huge difference in what you're getting. 

How were my perceived differences? Ok, well, when I bought the Audeze, my reaction wasn't, "Yeah, I think they are making a difference? Hmmm maybe?". My reaction was, "WTF?! I can't believe I haven't bought these sooner. I think my other headphones must have had the neighbour's dog take a shit in them or something?" Sorry, I'm a crass English guy.  

I don't own the LCDXC but a mixing engineer I work with owns them (both actually) and I have used them to compare the LCDX. They are amazing and the isolation is great. The bass sounds better in the LCDX though but they are open backs. If you need isolation definitely don't get open backs. I haven't been able to compare them with Beyer 880s but to be fair, I don't need to (and will never buy any as I now have some Audeze).

Of course these are just my opinions and each to their own of course. You have people making grammy award winning records on laptops and shit KRK monitors with rugs hanging on the wall. Whatever works for someone, works. If you use cheap headphones and marry them up with Sonarworks then that certainly works as a great solution. I have Sonarworks and I used to love it (at the time I couldn't believe how much better my cheaper headphones and monitors suddenly sounded) but since upgrading to the Audeze I hate the sound of Sonarworks. It's not needed when you're using something of that quality.

Anyway, hope that helps. Just sharing my thoughts as I've been exactly there thinking my cheap headphones were awesome when in fact, they weren't.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 18, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Well the price jump is a lot. I had to save for months and eat very little when I bought them. I bought the LCDX for $1000 but the 770s are about $120. It's a huge price difference but it's a huge difference in what you're getting.
> 
> How were my perceived differences? Ok, well, when I bought the Audeze, my reaction wasn't, "Yeah, I think they are making a difference? Hmmm maybe?". My reaction was, "WTF?! I can't believe I haven't bought these sooner. I think my other headphones must have had the neighbour's dog take a shit in them or something?" Sorry, I'm a crass English guy.
> 
> ...


It would seem that you are an audiophile and that is a good opinion to have because I am somewhat of an audiophile too, when I can afford to be.

If these Audeze headphones are truly something to behold, I will need to hear for myself. I hope to find a place that will allow me to audition them. I may keep using my Sennheiser 280 and continue saving my money up if they are indeed that much better. Would you say they are 20% better? 30% better or closer to 50% better than the popular Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic choices?

I would like to have a nice set of Focal monitors but that would not suit my situation right now so I need to have good headphones that will allow me to produce accurate results with good audio translation to different systems.

Audeze headphones may be the solution. How long of a life do you think the Audeze headphones will have? The Sennheiser HD280 pair I have right now are my second pair. My first par only lasted for two years before the drivers started to change their sound and begin distorting at moderate volume. Headphones and speakers do wear out and have a limited life span. At $1000 (I assume American dollars) for a single pair of headphones, I would hope that they can last longer than two years without needing to be replaced?


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## jononotbono (May 18, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> It would seem that you are an audiophile



I wouldn't go that far! haha! But since having them there's no going back.



Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> At $1000 (I assume American dollars) for a single pair of headphones, I would hope that they can last longer than two years without needing to be replaced?



I have no idea. I look after them and I expect that I will never buy another pair of headphones ever again. I guess if something breaks like most things in this world eventually do, every part is replaceable. They are built to last. It's not even something I have thought about. Definitely find somewhere to try them out.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 19, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I wouldn't go that far! haha! But since having them there's no going back.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea. I look after them and I expect that I will never buy another pair of headphones ever again. I guess if something breaks like most things in this world eventually do, every part is replaceable. They are built to last. It's not even something I have thought about. Definitely find somewhere to try them out.


Thank you Jono,

Absolutely, I will try to audition these. Where do you find them on sale for $1000? These are listed for $1700!


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## SupremeFist (May 19, 2020)

For a budget closed-back pick, check out the new AKG K371. I bought them for tracking guitars etc but they are surprisingly good as mix headphones, and wonderfully comfortable.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 19, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> For a budget closed-back pick, check out the new AKG K371. I bought them for tracking guitars etc but they are surprisingly good as mix headphones, and wonderfully comfortable.


How would they compare to the Sennheiser HD280 Pro headphones?


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## SupremeFist (May 19, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> How would they compare to the Sennheiser HD280 Pro headphones?


I couldn't say, but I have AKG 701, Sennheiser 6XX (650) and Ollo S4 open-backed headphones, and the K371 are surprisingly close in terms of detail and balance.


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## peladio (May 19, 2020)

It's funny how we all hear differently..I had LCD-X and while they were enjoyable for music listening for critical listening I always preferred HD600 and DT 880s by a wide margin..sold the LCD-X..

Ásta, as you can see you are going to get 20 opinions from 20 different people..everyone has different taste..my advice would be to get a quality pair of closed back cans that have good reviews and learn them inside out..

Andrew Scheps mixes on Sony 7506s which are far from audiophile headphones..get a nice pair and learn it, don't fall for audiophile marketing tricks..


----------



## artomatic (May 19, 2020)

I've had the AKG 701 and I've been reading the great reviews on Beyerdynamic DT-770. So I went ahead and purchased the Pro, 250 Ohm model - and hoping they'll stay comfy for a few hours of work.
The AKG 701 gets uncomfortable after a while for me.
It'll also be nice to A/B them both during the mix in addition to with/without Sonarworks.


----------



## SupremeFist (May 19, 2020)

artomatic said:


> I've had the AKG 701 and I've been reading the great reviews on Beyerdynamic DT-770. So I went ahead and purchased the Pro, 250 Ohm model - and hoping they'll stay comfy for a few hours of work.
> The AKG 701 gets uncomfortable after a while for me.
> It'll also be nice to A/B them both during the mix in addition to with/without Sonarworks.


See for me the 701s are the most comfortable headphones I've ever worn. Each to their own.


----------



## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 19, 2020)

Indeed, different stokes for different folks as they say in America

I have the HD280 Sennhieser headphones. I also have a pair of HD600 but they are open back and keep my roommate awake while I am working at night because her bed is beside my work desk. The HD280 works but they pinch my head too much and hurt my ears, even when I wear a pony tail. I was thinking that the Beyerdynamic DT770 might be the solution. There are many opinions.


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## SomeGuy (May 19, 2020)

artomatic said:


> I've had the AKG 701 and I've been reading the great reviews on Beyerdynamic DT-770. So I went ahead and purchased the Pro, 250 Ohm model - and hoping they'll stay comfy for a few hours of work.
> The AKG 701 gets uncomfortable after a while for me.
> It'll also be nice to A/B them both during the mix in addition to with/without Sonarworks.



Please post or pm me your thoughts. I also have AKG q701s with those 3 bumps in the headband and love the sound, but they really do hurt after using them for over a few hours. My head hurts thinking about them lol. Would like a nice pair of headphones for tracking / Akg relief. Wonder if those closed AKG SupremeFist recommendation are comparable, especially with Sonarworks?


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## bill5 (May 19, 2020)

peladio said:


> Andrew Scheps mixes on Sony 7506s which are far from audiophile headphones..


um - what? They are high quality headphones I would match against most in their class and then some. I could talk about their comfort, but I think the best statement in this entire thread was that (like most things audio) it is subjective as to what's comfortable and what's not. esp as our heads are all shaped differently.  

OP, I think really you need to find a store that has a variety of models you can try on and see what you think. I know trying on for a moment is hardly the same as wearing for hours, but you might at least get a good first impression that will be useful. Generally I think closed-back designs tend not to be as comfortable for hours at a time anyway as they clamp down tighter to provide a better seal.


----------



## Rory (May 19, 2020)

Hi Asta,

Your Sennheiser HD280 headphones are used by a lot of location sound recordists for film and television. Comfort during long days is an important issue for these people, and I wonder whether the problem here is that the Sennheisers just aren't a good fit for you. I'd like to suggest that you set a price range and try on several headphones within that range until you find a set that is comfortable.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 19, 2020)

Rory said:


> Hi Asta,
> 
> Your Sennheiser HD280 headphones are used by a lot of location sound recordists for film and television. Comfort during long days is an important issue for these people, and I wonder whether the problem here is that the Sennheisers just aren't a good fit for you. I'd like to suggest that you set a price range and try on several headphones within that range until you find a set that is comfortable.



Yes, you are right Rory. The Sennheisers make me look like a goblin

As Robo Rivard said - "After an hour, my brain feels roasted"

The grey soft fuzzy ear pads on the DT770 have peaked my interest


----------



## Rory (May 19, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Yes, you are right Rory. The Sennheisers make me look like a goblin.
> 
> As Robo Rivard said - "After an hour, my brain feels roasted"



If you need to carry the headphones from place to place and need ones that can stand up to abuse, check out the Sennheiser HD 25 headphones. *IF* they fit well, these headphones are light and rugged and every part is replaceable. I'd also suggest that you consider Audio-Technica's ATH-M series headphones, which are available at several price points.

Personally, I use Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro headphones and the HD 25. The Beyerdynamics are not a great choice for you because they are not only quite expensive, but open back, which you say is a problem for your roommate. I also have the Sony 7506, mentioned earlier, and do not recommend them. For one thing, they will make you feel roasted in much less than an hour.

The DT 770s may also be a good choice.

Ideally, you would have a couple of decent speakers and only need to use headphones when speakers are a problem for your roommate.


----------



## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 19, 2020)

Rory said:


> If you need to carry the headphones from place to place and need ones that can stand up to abuse, check out the Sennheiser HD 25 headphones. *IF* they fit well, these headphones are light and rugged and every part is replaceable. I'd also suggest that you consider Audio-Technica's ATH-M series headphones, which are available at several price points.
> 
> Personally, I use Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro headphones and the HD 25. The Beyerdynamics are not a great choice for you because they are not only quite expensive, but open back, which you say is a problem for your roommate. I also have the Sony 7506, mentioned earlier, and do not recommend them. For one thing, they will make you feel roasted in much less than an hour.
> 
> ...


I suppose the closest thing to the DT 1990 Pro headphones in a closed back design would be the DT 770 or the DT 1770 yes?


----------



## Rory (May 19, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> I suppose the closest thing to the DT 1990 Pro headphones in a closed back design would be the DT 770 or the DT 1770 yes?



I think that you should be looking for comfortable, neutral headphones that won't break the bank. Not having tried the 770s and 1770s, I can't say anything helpful except that I'm happy with the 1990s.

I'd like to suggest that you watch this Geoff Manchester video. If his voice is familiar, it's because he does iZotope's YouTube videos. The video is three years old, but I think that his approach remains the right one:


----------



## MaxOctane (May 19, 2020)

Another vote for DT880s. They're like fluffy pillows. Just pay attention to the impedance.


----------



## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 19, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> Another vote for DT880s. They're like fluffy pillows. Just pay attention to the impedance.


That's what I would go for except I need closed headphones because I share a room with someone and I like to stay up late and work while she sleeps in the bed next to my work desk.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 19, 2020)

Rory said:


> I think that you should be looking for comfortable, neutral headphones that won't break the bank. Not having tried the 770s and 1770s, I can't say anything helpful except that I'm happy with the 1990s.
> 
> I'd like to suggest that you watch this Geoff Manchester video. If his voice is familiar, it's because he does iZotope's YouTube videos. The video is three years old, but I think that his approach remains the right one:



Thank you Rory. I will watch this all the way through. I need something to watch as Season 5 of Outlander is not yet available on Netflix or any other streaming service here yet.

Goeff looks exactly like my brother's friend Magnús


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## peladio (May 20, 2020)

bill5 said:


> um - what? They are high quality headphones I would match against most in their class and then some. differently.



Indeed they are and I had used a pair for many years (extremely uncomfortable to me though..) but they're not $1500 headphones that will get praise from audiophiles on head-fi.. My point was that it's better to use $100 headphones that you know inside out than these without learning what they do to your sound..









Pictures: Sennheiser launches 'world's most expensive headphones' in Middle East | UAE News


The HE1 is handcrafted with more than 6,000 components




gulfbusiness.com


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## SergeD (May 20, 2020)

*Ásta*

For your friend, 17.97$


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 20, 2020)

I bought my first "pro" headphones in April (only took me 20 years lol), coming from a pair of AKG121, I went with the Sennheiser HD600. For the first time ever, I have had no fatigue after several hours. Also, I don't even notice they're on, they are _that _comfortable. Most importantly, the detail I'm hearing is night and day for my mixes. I had 30 days to return these and try something else, but these are exactly what I was after. My second choice was going to be a demo of the Beyerdynamic's.

The only con I could find with the HD600 is the open back....I would not use these for tracking as there's quite a bit of bleed.

I should also mention that I tried the demo for Sonarworks. I'm one of those few that don't "get it". IMO, just learn the sound of your headphones/monitors/room and mix accordingly. That's just me though


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 20, 2020)

SergeD said:


> *Ásta*
> 
> For your friend, 17.97$


We tried this but she complains they are too uncomfortable and she cannot sleep


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 20, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I bought my first "pro" headphones in April (only took me 20 years lol), coming from a pair of AKG121, I went with the Sennheiser HD600. For the first time ever, I have had no fatigue after several hours. Also, I don't even notice they're on, they are _that _comfortable. Most importantly, the detail I'm hearing is night and day for my mixes. I had 30 days to return these and try something else, but these are exactly what I was after. My second choice was going to be a demo of the Beyerdynamic's.
> 
> The only con I could find with the HD600 is the open back....I would not use these for tracking as there's quite a bit of bleed.
> 
> I should also mention that I tried the demo for Sonarworks. I'm one of those few that don't "get it". IMO, just learn the sound of your headphones/monitors/room and mix accordingly. That's just me though


I have a set of the HD600 headphones. They are indeed, amazing. They do leak quite a lot of audio even at low volume. My roommate complains when I wear them at night so this is why I am back to looking for a more comfortable alternative to the HD280 Pro.


----------



## BenG (May 20, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Thank you for your advice Ben G! Do you know what the differences are between the 880 and the 770?



No problem @Ásta Jónsdóttir! As others have mentionned, the770's are closed back (good for isolation) while the 880's are semi-open (good for mixing). In either case, I would also second Sonarworks to make sure you are getting a flat signal prior to mixing/mastering


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## bill5 (May 20, 2020)

FWIW (maybe nothing), I've been pouring over reviews...the Beyerdynamics in general, up to and including the 990s, both open and closed models, get repeated criticism of being rather heavy and not comfortable over time. I have not owned, can't say. The ATs seem to get good marks for comfort, but they are also notoriously bass heavy.


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## Rory (May 20, 2020)

bill5 said:


> FWIW (maybe nothing), I've been pouring over reviews...the Beyerdynamics in general, up to and including the 990s, both open and closed models, get repeated criticism of being rather heavy and not comfortable over time. I have not owned, can't say. The ATs seem to get good marks for comfort, but they are also notoriously bass heavy.



I think that whether a pair of headphones is comfortable is an individual question that is better answered by trying them on than by reading reviews. For example, I know for a fact that a lot of people find Ásta’s HD280 headphones comfortable, but she doesn’t, which should be the end of the question. I’m happy wearing Beterdynamic’s DT 1990 Pros, but that doesn’t mean everyone is, or should be.

The Audio Technica ATH-M series is not considered bass heavy, notoriously or otherwise, by the increasing number of location sound recordists, for whom a reasonably neutral frequency response is important, who are using them, nor by Geoff Manchester in the video above, who addresses their frequency response specifically, and recommends them, especially for the price.


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## scoringdreams (May 20, 2020)

To OP,

I am guessing your budget is going to be working around the DT770 range...and closed backs since you already have a HD600.

If that's the case, a DT770 is probably one of the most comfy pairs you can get at the price point. And they are not heavy (above poster). Audeze LCD-X are heavy.

But if you have the budget and can only get 1 pair of headphones to last you the next 5 years, I advice looking at the following (and Sonarworks calibration + something like Can Opener):

- Neumann NDH 20 - my favourite closed back so far
- Beyerdynamic DT1770 - excellent build quality, slightly heavier
- Focal Listen Pro (depending on ear size / over vs on-ear) - I find these very durable
- Whatever new model AKG has released, heard about them but have yet to try them


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## rhizomusicosmos (May 20, 2020)

bill5 said:


> FWIW (maybe nothing), I've been pouring over reviews...the Beyerdynamics in general, up to and including the 990s, both open and closed models, get repeated criticism of being rather heavy and not comfortable over time. I have not owned, can't say. The ATs seem to get good marks for comfort, but they are also notoriously bass heavy.


Well, it's the opposite for me: my Beyerdynamics are more comfortable over time than my Audio Technicas. But the ATs are nowhere near as bad as the NAD Viso HP50 I own which don't fit my head at all, though many rave about them. As I said earlier, much is dependent on the size of your head and ears. Really only @Ásta Jónsdóttir can determine how comfortable they will be.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (May 20, 2020)

scoringdreams said:


> To OP,
> 
> I am guessing your budget is going to be working around the DT770 range...and closed backs since you already have a HD600.
> 
> ...


Thank you Scoring Dreams,

These are some new suggestions for me to look into. Much appreciated 

How does Can Opener work?


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## Diablo IV (May 20, 2020)

HD650, most cherished in the world. I have 2. Get a bargain on ebay or so.


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## scoringdreams (May 21, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Thank you Scoring Dreams,
> 
> These are some new suggestions for me to look into. Much appreciated
> 
> How does Can Opener work?



Hope you manage to find the ideal pair of headphones. It's more of an art than science.

Regarding Can Opener, I had someone explain it to me previously as well and to quote their website:

The main “problem” with headphones is that most music is still created (recorded, mixed, mastered) on speakers, with tools that were primarily designed for loudspeaker playback. Compared to speakers, music often sounds overly “wide” when listened to on headphones, as if there were a section missing from the center of the stereo image. Headphones also offer poor externalization (i.e. mono sounds typically appear to originate from inside the listener’s head as opposed to externally). Similarly, headphones often have irregular, exaggerated, or unnatural frequency response curves, either because they were designed that way or because they lack the natural bass reinforcement that would occur in a real room with speakers.

(I suggest you visit their website via the following URL)









CanOpener Studio, by Goodhertz


Conjure speakers from your headphones.




goodhertz.co





+ You should also look at Sonarworks Reference (combined w Can Opener) if you're intending to work predominantly on cans.









SoundID Reference - Speaker & Headphone Calibration


Create with full confidence in sound with speaker & headphone calibration software SoundID Reference. Already trusted by over 100'000 studios globally.




www.sonarworks.com


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## TomislavEP (May 21, 2020)

I've used DT 770 Pro for many years; they offer a nearly perfect balance between the sound and comfort for me. These are also well-known for their durability and longevity, however, when I was using them with a piece of my hardware several years ago, the left driver suddenly went dead. I send them to repair and in the meantime I got a pair of Audio Technica M50 Pro. They're slightly less comfortable and a bit heavier on the bass, but I still like them very much even today when I have my DT's back.


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## Anders Wall (May 21, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Currently, I am wearing a pair of Sennheiser HD280 Pro...


Hi! 

If you get the chance to try different headphones see if you can find a pair of Meze Classics and a pair of Grado (500 or above).
The Mezes are closed- and the Grado open-back.

I have really nothing negative to say about the Meze, not at €300-ish

Sometimes I wear glasses the Grados are a bit hard on the ear, they do offer a different padding but that makes the cans sound like ... pooop.

We do some remote work, the Nobel price concert is one example, where the (balancing) mixer is far away from the location but the tonmeister/producer is at the venue.
The left-right mix is sent from the mixing room to the venue and since they both have the same cans they can discuss the mix.

Usually the monitoring level in the mix room is really low and we (I) wear the Grados whilst having the monitors on. I have the levels so that if I remove the Grados I only feel a change in perspective not in level is you get what I mean.

Re: Sennheisers I come from older models HD250 and when working as a locations recordist I use HD25mkii's. The 250's are so dull I barley can hear a hi-hat in them... 

The 770/880 might be better suited for studio work than the Meze, but if the studio is a personal studio I'd listen to them all before buying. In a commercial studio we sometimes have to compromise sound- over build-quality.

Best of luck!

/Anders

And oh, some cans need to have a few hours of (kind of loud) music in them to sound ok.
So have them on during the night (or day) before making your final judgement.


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## rottoy (May 21, 2020)

AKG K701. Best headphones I've ever used. 
They make LOVE to your ears, ridiculously comfortable to wear as well.


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## peladio (May 21, 2020)

Fascinating how many people didn't even read the first page and keep recommending open back headphones..


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## rottoy (May 21, 2020)

I admit to being one of those jumping the gun, heh.
I still recommend the K701s, for anyone dropping by!


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 21, 2020)

peladio said:


> Fascinating how many people didn't even read the first page and keep recommending open back headphones..



Asta asked for different opinions, not specifically closed headphones. The Beyerdynamics were on Asta’s list. I learned a lot from all the opinions.


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## peladio (May 21, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Asta asked for different opinions, not specifically closed headphones. The Beyerdynamics were on Asta’s list. I learned a lot from all the opinions.



And open back cans fit into this post how:



> I have a pair of the HD600 headphones as well but they are open back and my roommate complains that she can hear the music I am working on very loud when she is trying to sleep.



She already owns one of the very best open headphones..but I agree that there are some very informative posts..it just would be more helpful and focused discussion if people would actually read past the title..


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## bill5 (May 21, 2020)

Rory said:


> I think that whether a pair of headphones is comfortable is an individual question that is better answered by trying them on than by reading reviews. For example, I know for a fact that a lot of people find Ásta’s HD280 headphones comfortable, but she doesn’t, which should be the end of the question. I’m happy wearing Beterdynamic’s DT 1990 Pros, but that doesn’t mean everyone is, or should be.


Agreed!



> The Audio Technica ATH-M series is not considered bass heavy, notoriously or otherwise, by the increasing number of location sound recordists, for whom a reasonably neutral frequency response is important, who are using them


Yeah, actually they are. But you're certainly free to believe otherwise.


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## scoringdreams (May 22, 2020)

peladio said:


> She already owns one of the very best open headphones..but I agree that there are some very informative posts..it just would be more helpful and focused discussion if people would actually read past the title..



unless she wants to upgrade to an Audeze LCD-X, Sennheiser HD800S, or Focal Utopia 

Edit: or closed back versions LCD-XC, HD820, Stellia


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## vitocorleone123 (May 22, 2020)

For me, the DT880 Pro SE 250ohm was the way to go. Balance of clamp force, weight, comfort with glasses, padding, and semi open so my ears don’t get as hot.

Closed back are heavier and hotter. Look for ones with lower clamp force (yes some sound may leak if loud) and lighter weight.


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## Rory (May 22, 2020)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Closed back are heavier and hotter.



One reason that Sennheiser’s closed back HD 25 headphones are the most widely used location sound recording headphones outside the U.S. is that they are both light and rugged. It also helps that every part can be replaced off the shelf, no messing with wires and solder. Now that Sennheiser has dropped the U.S. price so that it is closer to the European price, the HD 25s are also making headway against Sony’s 7506 headphones, which have historically dominated the U.S. market.

Bang & Olufsen’s H6 headphones are also quite light and, for me at least, very comfortable. Now discontinued, I have seen “new old stock” offered at extremely attractive prices.

Personally, I have HD 25, H6 and 7506 headphones myself, as well as Beyerdymanic DT 1990 Pro (open back), Sennheiser HD8 DJ, Bose QuietComfort 35 and Apple AirPods Pro. They all have their uses, including when testing mixes, although I rarely use the Sonys at this point.

The BlueTooth capability of the Bose QuietComforts and AirPods Pro is very handy if you want to monitor while using a preamp, such as DPA’s d:vice, to record to an iOS device; in other words, if you want to use an iPhone or iPad essentially as a portable audio recording storage device. Just turn off noise cancellation.

Here's a B&H video on using the DPA d:vice to record a pianist with an iPad. Bluetooth headphones/earbuds are necessary to monitor such a recording on iOS devices that don't have a headphone jack, which was dropped with iPhone 7:


----------



## Diablo IV (May 23, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Thank you Scoring Dreams,
> 
> These are some new suggestions for me to look into. Much appreciated
> 
> How does Can Opener work?



Thanks for this, because it reminded me that music has been mixed in monitors/speakers, and probably to be heard on speakers, not really headphones.

For some reason I rather use headphones, I like more the direct sound to my ears, as perhaps I want more presence, like for example in ASMR, using headphones is a must (usually) where you feel sometimes the "girl" in your neck whispering you.

And that's what I look for in music, *I wish music nowadays was mixed for headphones TOO.*

I feel with speakers it is kind of an ethereal sound.
If I want music coming out speakers, I would go to a concert. And sometimes the sound there is fcked up by the location's gear or maybe the sound engineer or both.

And probably that's why I am not enjoying too much music nowadays.

It seems I am not alone in this: Ásta suffers from ear fatigue (long sessions) and also finds* something's making the drivers distort *or something in some areas:

"_ Sometimes it sounds like something is overloading and distorting during audio peaks - pushing hard in the midrange or when there is an abundance of low end. So yes, on some of the audio peaks, there is some fuzz that happens with the drivers. _"

That's life I guess


----------



## Petrucci (May 23, 2020)

I've been using DT 770 Pro for many years (more than 10 years) for composing during night time and still love em and they still work great.


----------



## Loïc D (May 23, 2020)

DT880 Pro here.

I assure you I get tired of my own music far before I get tired by the headphones. 

Very comfortable, flat sound, compatible with glasses and unlike fake leather pad, you don’t feel your ear boiling after a while.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Jun 15, 2020)

Hello everyone!

I just wanted to report that I ended up buying a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 ohm Headphones to replace my Sennheiser HD280 Pro Headphones.

While I really really appreciate all of the suggestions that everyone made, I did require something that has really great isolation as I am working in a small space that I share with my roommate at our school residence.

All I can say is wow! These headphones really check all the boxes for me!


Some people commented that there is an extreme boost at 10kHz. While this may be true, I do not find the sound of these headphones harsh at all. In fact, I find them to be very smooth and forgiving. I also find that they have a far less harsh sound to them compared to the Sennheiser HD280 Pro Headhones. The HD280 may be better for accuracy as they seem to distort quite easily when there is any desgree of harshness in the upper mids or if there is a lot of low end present in a signal. It seems that while the Sennheisers cannot handle the bass or mids with the same degree of efficiency as the DT770's that this may be an advantage when mixing but for tracking for long hours, I prefer the DT770's by far.


*Here are my 10 positive feelings about the DT770's compared to the HD280's*

1. Far more comfort overall
2. Can work for a longer period of time without my head pounding from the pressure
3. Ears float inside the headphone cups instead of being pushed on and getting sore
4. Sound is more mid scooped rather than mid pushed which I like for tracking
5. Less detail in the mid range is worth the trade off of WAY LESS hearing fatigue
6. Bass stays much tighter and has a focused but still round warm sound
7. Recording instruments with a lot of low end feels a lot more solid, like I am connected to the music
8. Top end stays smoother without distortion
9. Much better ventilation and my head stays cool
10. Overall more enjoyable frequency spectrum to listen to for long hours


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jun 15, 2020)

Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80
No need to say more after the previous post


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## Mornats (Jun 15, 2020)

Sounds like a good result. I've just ordered a pair of the semi-open DT 880 pro 250 ohm. I'm currently using closed back Audio Technica M50x which I like, but I wanted the soundstage and open back nature of the 880s.

I'm in the opposite position to you of now being able to listen to open back headphones whilst working as I'm working from home now. So I figured that as I've got time to listen to music during the day I can get used to them quite quickly.


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## Levon (Jun 15, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I just wanted to report that I ended up buying a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 ohm Headphones to replace my Sennheiser HD280 Pro Headphones.
> 
> ...


Asta, how do the DT770's compare to your Sennheiser HD600's? I'm looking for a pair of headphones specifically for mixing and had been considering the HD600.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Jun 15, 2020)

Levon said:


> Asta, how do the DT770's compare to your Sennheiser HD600's? I'm looking for a pair of headphones specifically for mixing and had been considering the HD600.


Hi Levon,

I would never mix anything on the DT770 Headphones. They make everything sound nice. They are too mid scooped and too bass heavy to have any mixing accuracy. They are however, very pleasant for listening on as they make everything sound good.

The DT770's are kind of like the Danish Dynaudio Studio Monitors in that they make everything sound smooth and good, even when there are obvious problems with the sound, they hide it and smooth everything over. This is the nature of polypropylene driver cones. Everything sounds silky smooth on them. The DT770's are similar which is why I wanted them for writing and tracking for long hours.

The Sennheiser HD600 are extremely detailed and have very very detailed midrange and a frequency spectrum that is more like a set of Yamaha NS10's or Focal monitors - very detailed mids and drivers that will distort easily, when there are offending frequencies.

In general, I would say that the Beyerdynamic DT770's are mid-scooped and the Sennheiser HD600 are closer to flat with a bit more presence in the upper mids. The two have almost opposite frequency curves.

I think it is a well known fact that the Sennheiser HD600 is one of the best, if not the best headphones for mixing and getting some level of accuracy that translates well on different playback systems. Of course, I would pair the HD600's with a good pair of studio monitors. On a budget, Yamaha HS5's. If you have more money, a good combination would be the HD600 headphones and a pair of Focal Alpha monitors.

Ásta


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Jun 15, 2020)

Mornats said:


> Sounds like a good result. I've just ordered a pair of the semi-open DT 880 pro 250 ohm. I'm currently using closed back Audio Technica M50x which I like, but I wanted the soundstage and open back nature of the 880s.
> 
> I'm in the opposite position to you of now being able to listen to open back headphones whilst working as I'm working from home now. So I figured that as I've got time to listen to music during the day I can get used to them quite quickly.


Bonjour Mon Ràts,

I am glad to hear that you have the freedom to go bare back. If I did not have a roommate, I would have done the same as well, I think.


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## sostenuto (Jun 15, 2020)

Subtle, personal variation here. Yamaha HS5 monitors driven from Saffire Pro14(s); Beyer DT880 Pro 600ohm (driven by Schiit Audio) Modi + Asgard 3.

Seasoned ears need lotsa help to crosscheck vs Monitors. So far so good, but nothing to provide A/B compare.


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## Mornats (Jun 15, 2020)

sostenuto said:


> Subtle, personal variation here. Yamaha HS5 monitors driven from Saffire Pro14(s); Beyer DT880 Pro 600ohm (driven by Schiit Audio) Modi + Asgard 3.
> 
> Seasoned ears need lotsa help to crosscheck vs Monitors. So far so good, but nothing to provide A/B compare.



Yamaha HS7 driven from Focusrite Forte here and with 880 pros incoming. Not sure I'll get much of a chance to compare properly though but interesting that we'll have fairly similar setups.


----------



## Levon (Jun 15, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Hi Levon,
> 
> I would never mix anything on the DT770 Headphones. They make everything sound nice. They are too mid scooped and too bass heavy to have any mixing accuracy. They are however, very pleasant for listening on as they make everything sound good.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your very detailed response. Very helpful 😀


----------



## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Jun 15, 2020)

Levon said:


> Thanks for your very detailed response. Very helpful 😀


Hi Levon,

Some of what I write is my own perception and experience. Some is repeating informations from top engineers I know in Iceland. I am lucky to have mentorship from talented people at home.


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## jbuhler (Jun 15, 2020)

The tip of the 3.5mm jack on my DT770s just broke and now I need to figure out how to fix it. I have no experience soldering, and it seems that soldering headphone jacks can be a bit tricky due to the small workspace. But also not sure where I can take the headphones for repair.


----------



## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Jun 15, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> The tip of the 3.5mm jack on my DT770s just broke and now I need to figure out how to fix it. I have no experience soldering, and it seems that soldering headphone jacks can be a bit tricky due to the small workspace. But also not sure where I can take the headphones for repair.


If you have a company in your city that does live sound, usually there are tech people working there who would be happy to repair that for you. In America, there are many mega churches that have very high end live sound equipment and staff techs who maintain that equipment. I am sure they repair headphone jacks quite frequently and would help you out, even if you are a non-believer. 

Beyerdynamic is very good at making parts available:






Spare parts







north-america.beyerdynamic.com













Service set connecting cord


Straight cable 3 m with grommet




north-america.beyerdynamic.com


----------



## jbuhler (Jun 15, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> If you have a company in your city that does live sound, usually there are tech people working there who would be happy to repair that for you. Beyerdynamic is very good at making parts available for their products from what I understand.


When I looked on the Beyerdynamic site, they seem to only sell a full replacement cable, and that appears to require soldering inside the left earpiece of the headphones themselves. I will look for a live sound vendor if I decide not to try soldering DIY.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Jun 15, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> When I looked on the Beyerdynamic site, they seem to only sell a full replacement cable, and that appears to require soldering inside the left earpiece of the headphones themselves. I will look for a live sound vendor if I decide not to try soldering DIY.


Yes! In Iceland we have a company called Exton who are a live sound and lighting equipment rental and production services company. They have several good techs who repair things like broken headphone adapters and for much less than buying a new cable or pair of headphones. I am sure that in America you have many companies like this. They may have to use OEM parts to do the repair but these headphones are so popular and have been around for so long that there is probably a good knowledge base out there in the audio tech world on repairing them.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Jun 15, 2020)

This is the species of human you are looking for


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## jbuhler (Jun 15, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Yes! In Iceland we have a company called Exton who are a live sound and lighting equipment rental and production services company. They have several good techs who repair things like broken headphone adapters and for much less than buying a new cable or pair of headphones. I am sure that in America you have many companies like this. They may have to use OEM parts to do the repair but these headphones are so popular and have been around for so long that there is probably a good knowledge base out there in the audio tech world on repairing them.


Yes, i'm torn between trying to learn to solder and finding someone to do it for me. I understand that it can be a bit tricky to do this particular soldering job because the space inside the jack is tight and so the soldering has to be very precise. On the other hand, the jacks are also inexpensive so I can mess up numerous times and still not have it cost that much. Plus I'll learn how to solder.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Jun 15, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, i'm torn between trying to learn to solder and finding someone to do it for me. I understand that it can be a bit tricky to do this particular soldering job because the space inside the jack is tight and so the soldering has to be very precise. On the other hand, the jacks are also inexpensive so I can mess up numerous times and still not have it cost that much. Plus I'll learn how to solder.


I would attempt the soldering if I were prepared to buy a whole new set of headphones in the event of making an irreversible mistake


----------



## Jay Panikkar (Jun 15, 2020)

The DT 770s have an exaggerated V-shaped frequency profile, so they can sometimes be awkward for classical and orchestral music.

Nevertheless, what really matters is getting your ears attuned to the sound of _your_ headphones of choice, provided that the headphones have low noise and distortion, and rolls off in excess of the standard 20–20k frequency range. Most "audiophile" stuff is snake oil nonsense, so I'd say don't waste too much time and resources on overpriced headphones and modding.

I use the AKG 712 Pro, because my ears got used to its sound, and because it has a nice soundstage for classical and orchestral music.


----------



## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Jun 15, 2020)

Jay Panikkar said:


> The DT 770s have an exaggerated V-shaped frequency profile, so they can sometimes be awkward for classical and orchestral music.
> 
> Nevertheless, what really matters is getting your ears attuned to the sound of _your_ headphones of choice, provided that the headphones have low noise and distortion, and rolls off in excess of the standard 20–20k frequency range. Most "audiophile" stuff is snake oil nonsense, so I'd say don't waste too much time and resources on overpriced headphones and modding.
> 
> I use the AKG 712 Pro, because my ears got used to its sound, and because it has a nice soundstage for classical and orchestral music.


I am lucky to now have three pairs of headphones which allows me to get a more broad perspective on how things are sounding. 

The reason I wanted to get the DT770's was to get away from headphones that were ear fatiguing and get something more comfortable to wear for long hours. Isolation was also a must.


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## creativeforge (Jun 15, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Sometimes it sounds like something is overloading and distorting during audio peaks - pushing hard in the midrange or when there is an abundance of low end. So yes, on some of the audio peaks, there is some fuzz that happens with the drivers.



Ah, so there's a name for that! I experienced this "peak fuzz" today. Strangely when I'm in my DAW, everything sounds pristine, especially at a certain passage. 

But once I listen to a *mixdown to wav* file, there it is. I have the HD600 and a pair of ATH40_fs_, and both have the same response at that passage: peak fuzz. 

Could be a band's name - Peak Fuzz. 

I got to find why it's doing this. 

Good luck! Be serious as much as you need for as long as you can (says this 63 yo)!


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 16, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Hi Levon,
> 
> Some of what I write is my own perception and experience. Some is repeating informations from top engineers I know in Iceland. I am lucky to have mentorship from talented people at home.




Asta (Ásbjörg) I just spent over half an hour listening to your work. You have a very beautiful voice, I love its tone, texture, and apparent delicate fragility that could erupt like a roar without warning. And I love your piano work very much... Fascinating energy, full of surprises, probably like many of the landscapes of Iceland! 

Glad you found better headphones to continue your projects! I bookmarked your Soundcloud page for further explorations. 

Regards,

Andre


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## Mornats (Jun 16, 2020)

Did you share your music Asta? I remember people asking about it but I missed any link to it I think.


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## gh0stwrit3r (Jun 16, 2020)

+1 for the DT770 Pro 250 Ohm. Using them for years now. Wouldn't go with anything else.
Recently I linked them to the Sonarworks Reference software to mix with a more flatter sound. I love it!


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 16, 2020)

Mornats said:


> Did you share your music Asta? I remember people asking about it but I missed any link to it I think.



I hope it's OK if I share your music links, Asta...

Her website: 
https://www.asbjorgjonsdottir.com/artists

You will find her music here:
https://soundcloud.com/asbjorgjonsdottir


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## averystemmler (Jun 16, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, i'm torn between trying to learn to solder and finding someone to do it for me. I understand that it can be a bit tricky to do this particular soldering job because the space inside the jack is tight and so the soldering has to be very precise. On the other hand, the jacks are also inexpensive so I can mess up numerous times and still not have it cost that much. Plus I'll learn how to solder.



If you have trouble, you can also snip a few inches off of a working stereo 1/8th or 1/4 inch cable, trim the bad jack off of the headphone cable, and spice the two together. That can be an easier solder job.


----------



## Mornats (Jun 16, 2020)

My DT 880 pros turned up today! So my first impressions are that I love them. The sound and detail is fantastic as is the comfort. The bump at 10khz sounds fine to me (I know other people don't like it) but I've got Sonarworks headphone calibration so it doesn't matter anyway.

Volume-wise, I was surprised that my phone (OnePlus 5) can power them at good volume, even if I have to turn the volume up to around 80-85%. However, my Focusrite Forte interface seemingly has a weak headphone out. I have to turn the volume to max to get an ok level on tracks. These are before I've used Ozone to get the volume up the desired amount.

To give an example, loading up the low strings patch from Tundra and playing the flautando CS longs, I have my Forte at max volume and the output level is showing at a peak of -40dbs. That's really low! If I enable the Sonarworks it'll drop that volume if the safe headroom is turned on.

So maybe I need a headphone amp or a new interface so I can mix at decent volumes. And by decent volumes, I'm not talking about ear-splitting levels. My ears won't take that. So it's moderate volume at most.


----------



## Ivan M. (Jun 17, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I bought the LCDX



You've praised these so much that you've almost convinved me to buy them. But when checking their frequency response, I wasn't impressed. Sennheiser HD series has a flatter curve. Did you have a chance to compare with better sennheisers?


----------



## STec (Jun 17, 2020)

Personally I have the HD650 from Sennheiser, they are really good and comfortable but my advise to you is to take breaks regularly. Also for editing, when you're doing non-critical work you could use small speakers, not too loud.

I think all headphones will hurt and you will feel ear fatigue after 5hours of work non-stop.


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## jononotbono (Jun 17, 2020)

Ivan M. said:


> You've praised these so much that you've almost convinved me to buy them. But when checking their frequency response, I wasn't impressed. Sennheiser HD series has a flatter curve. Did you have a chance to compare with better sennheisers?



Nope.
Don’t be fooled into thinking you want a completely flat curve. The best $4k Audeze are completely flat and as a result sound completely unmusical. Horrible to work on. Not even PMC speakers have a flat response. Instead of looking at charts and diagrams to be impressed, I’d definitely suggest trying this stuff out and using your ears to be impressed.

Obviously to each their own when choosing stuff like this but I will never use anything other than the LCDX anymore. I also said I’d never talk about them on VI-C anymore. Whoops. Would hate to be accused of being a fan boy as opposed to someone that saw the light and realised how dog shit most headphones are. 😂


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## Mornats (Jun 17, 2020)

I really, really want to try a pair of LCDX headphones now...


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## sostenuto (Jun 17, 2020)

Mornats said:


> I really, really want to try a pair of LCDX headphones now...



_Hmmmm ..... or find, win, borrow, misappropriate, or ...... a pair _


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## jononotbono (Jun 17, 2020)

sostenuto said:


> _Hmmmm ..... or find, win, borrow, misappropriate, or ...... a pair _



Just be a whore and work your tits off and have no life and be incredibly exhausted and miserable... more than usual anyway... and then suffer bad audio no more 😂


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## Ivan M. (Jun 17, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Nope.
> Don’t be fooled into thinking you want a completely flat curve. The best $4k Audeze are completely flat and as a result sound completely unmusical. Horrible to work on. Not even PMC speakers have a flat response. Instead of looking at charts and diagrams to be impressed, I’d definitely suggest trying this stuff out and using your ears to be impressed.
> 
> Obviously to each their own when choosing stuff like this but I will never use anything other than the LCDX anymore. I also said I’d never talk about them on VI-C anymore. Whoops. Would hate to be accused of being a fan boy as opposed to someone that saw the light and realised how dog shit most headphones are. 😂



Not sure I have where to try them, need to check again at the shops. But here's what I did. Went to sonarworks website, where they have that demo. So I picked audeze and switched the correction on and off, to get an idea of where they boost/cut, and I didn't like like it. Did the same with sennheiser hd650 and the sound didn't change much, meaning they don't need much correction.
But yeah, nothing until I hear it.


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## jononotbono (Jun 17, 2020)

Ivan M. said:


> Not sure I have where to try them, need to check again at the shops. But here's what I did. Went to sonarworks website, where they have that demo. So I picked audeze and switched the correction on and off, to get an idea of where they boost/cut, and I didn't like like it. Did the same with sennheiser hd650 and the sound didn't change much, meaning they don't need much correction.
> But yeah, nothing until I hear it.



I don’t use Sonarworks with the LCDX. I hated it and turned it off immediately. You don’t need Sonarworks with them. Sonarworks works very well when used in conjunction with horrible headphones and terrible rooms.


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## sostenuto (Jun 17, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Just be a whore and work your tits off and have no life and be incredibly exhausted and miserable... more than usual anyway... and then suffer bad audio no more 😂



..... then, of course ...... drive them with ??? 
Recently added Schiit Audio - Modi DAC + Asgard 3 Amp;
_yet LCDX surely deserve_ _ SA - Bifrost DAC _ Jotunheim Amp.

Back to work, work, work, work


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## jononotbono (Jun 17, 2020)

sostenuto said:


> ..... then, of course ...... drive them with ???
> Recently added Schiit Audio - Modi DAC + Asgard 3 Amp;
> _yet LCDX surely deserve_ _ SA - Bifrost DAC _ Jotunheim Amp.
> 
> Back to work, work, work, work



Tried out an SPL Phonitor 2. That was nice. I really need to save my money for something else though, like moving to LA or maybe a flight to see my family in the UK. Still, they haven’t bothered to fly to me so... 😂


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## sostenuto (Jun 17, 2020)

Not yet Sonarworks fan, but wondering if there can be top-tier VST plugin solutions.
Checking Audeeze Reveal, but no clue yet.

_On very different Microphone Preamp topic_ .... now trying 'lesser' hardware I/F models ..... then adding VST (in Reaper) like Lindell Audio 6X-500. Interesting results so far, but very early days.

Get the Phonitor 2 and checkout LA around Nov/Dec !


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## D Halgren (Jun 17, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Tried out an SPL Phonitor 2. That was nice. I really need to save my money for something else though, like moving to LA or maybe a flight to see my family in the UK. Still, they haven’t bothered to fly to me so... 😂


I'm using the Neve RNHP with mine. Good combo!


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## sostenuto (Jun 17, 2020)

D Halgren said:


> I'm using the Neve RNHP with mine. Good combo!



Helluva lot less pricey, than SPL. Better than Schiit Audio Modi + Asgard 3 ?
Whose ears ? What content/source ? If diminishing returns does not apply notably here ... then where ?? 
No dispute or argument .... just no way to judge objectively ..... other than A/B .... which is only available to small number of capable users, globally. 
GAS depleted for now, but eternally expanding


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## D Halgren (Jun 17, 2020)

sostenuto said:


> Helluva lot less pricey, than SPL. Better than Schiit Audio Modi + Asgard 3 ?
> Whose ears ? What content/source ? If diminishing returns does not apply notably here ... then where ?? No dispute here .... just no way to judge objectively ..... other than A/B .... which is only available to small number of capable users.
> 
> GAS depleted for now, but eternally building


Well, it sounds completely uncolored to me and has plenty of headroom. There are glowing reviews all over the web. Take your pick. Plus, it's fricken Neve


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## sostenuto (Jun 17, 2020)

D Halgren said:


> Well, it sounds completely uncolored to me and has plenty of headroom. There are glowing reviews all over the web. Take your pick. Plus, it's fricken Neve



Lotsa ways to invest ~ $1,500. enjoyably and Neve to boot !


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## el-bo (Jun 18, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Perhaps I am not taking enough breaks.



Many times, this!


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## Haakond (Jun 18, 2020)

I use Beyerdynamic DT770 and can wear them for long periods, even with glasses. Most comfortable headphones I have ever used


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Jun 19, 2020)

el-bo said:


> Many times, this!


Today I took not a single break. I did accomplish what I set out to do though.


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## el-bo (Jun 20, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Today I took not a single break. I did accomplish what I set out to do though.



Bragging rights and gold stars ⭐️ are only awarded to those who take their breaks 😉

Sorry!


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## Daniel (Jun 20, 2020)

ATH M 50 Legacy here. Good for mixing/producing ---> not for long hours working (uncomfortable ear pressure)


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## PeterN (Sep 5, 2020)

Ive used these DT 770s for two, or maybe three years, now and come to the conclusion you cant possibly have any idea what is going on in low end. These DT770s are very good in mid and highs - being neutral - but lows, you have no idea whats going on. So you need to combine them with a good pair of studio speakers that checks the lows, maybe that goes without saying, but Im sort of wondering about all the praise while they are so blind for lows. Just never do the final touch on these headphones, you need to constantly flip via speakers too. The good thing about this is you can really understand why you should not mix and master anything on headphones - even marketed as neutral.


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## PeterN (Sep 5, 2020)

And I can say something else about them too. If you are using them in a climate that has warm summers, they are so warm you get extremely itching ears. They are good for winter use! Ive been using them in Greece and Spain and come to the conclusion you cant have them on your ears in summertime - at most 1 hour. Its like putting a sauna on your ears.

Anyway, I like them, but not in warm summers or to have any idea whats going on under 500hz.


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## Pier (Feb 15, 2021)

PeterN said:


> Ive used these DT 770s for two, or maybe three years, now and come to the conclusion you cant possibly have any idea what is going on in low end. These DT770s are very good in mid and highs - being neutral - but lows, you have no idea whats going on. So you need to combine them with a good pair of studio speakers that checks the lows, maybe that goes without saying, but Im sort of wondering about all the praise while they are so blind for lows. Just never do the final touch on these headphones, you need to constantly flip via speakers too. The good thing about this is you can really understand why you should not mix and master anything on headphones - even marketed as neutral.


Honestly, unless you have a treated room you cannot trust your speakers either with the low end. It's usually the band with more problems due to room geometry and the more difficult to tame.

Been using the DT990 for a couple of years and love them but the low end is a bit hyped and mushy (not as much as the ATH M50 though). It think they are great for writing and super comfortable. Not so great for mixing honestly, as anything seems to sound good on them.

Bought the HD 280 Pro (newer model) recently and the low end is much more tight. It's a bit recessed though so I add a couple of dbs below 200Hz. Being closed they seem to have more detail and sharpness in the mids and highs compared to my other open headphones. They reveal mix problems easily and I would not recommend them for casual listening or maybe even just writing music. Personally I find them quite comfortable and I love the isolation.


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## Russell Anderson (Feb 20, 2021)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> I don't listen that loud! Her bed is beside my work desk.
> 
> I took a look at Sonarworks. I wonder if there is way that you can just make your own EQ profile of the headphones you own and then copy the reverse of it into Fabfilter Pro-Q to compensate?


This is an older thread, but in case it’s not been mentioned yet, the middle-version of dSoniq Realphones gives you the same quality of headphone EQ-calibration as competitors like Sonarworks, but also provides you with a virtual mixing room, which goes a long way in addressing the stereo image problems caused by the L and R stereo channels being isolated in each ear with headphones. It’s on sale quite frequently from 35-50% off of the $100 price (the most expensive version just enables you to set profiles on additional pairs of headphones; the $100 package already comes with 3 “slots” with any number of your presets per pair).

You get a host of controls so that you can set the headphones to sound _exactly_ the way you want while listening to other music and dialogue and whatnot, and then use that as your mixing/musicmaking reference setup for your headphones. There are even presets for earbud simulation, mono, sliders for speaker width + “room ambience” (which is essentially the stereo crossfeed slider that puts you in a “space”) which you can use to quickly reference multiple listening sources as well. I am liking the software a lot, using it most of the time I use headphones for anything.

It should be noted nothing is a replacement for a good studio, but when using headphones frequently (which I do), software like this goes a long way toward making mixing a lot more predictable and effective especially with regard to stereo; I've found since using correctional software the sound in my headphones is translating a lot better to other sources like speakers and the car and whatnot, and even other headphones, in terms of both timbral quality (relating to the EQ adjustments) and the stereo image, which tends to collapse a lot less when moving from headphones. So I definitely recommend it.


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## MartinH. (Jul 23, 2021)

Hey! Hope it's ok if I necro this thread to post a headphone related question. I ordered DT770 Pro headphones yesterday and I expect I'll want to lower the clamping force of them (if I decide to keep them in the first place). I just stumbled over this video:



This is pretty much what I tried with my Superlux HD681 headphones (before seeing that video), and it unfortunately killed them. I don't quite understand why. I didn't expect this to harm the sound at all, but somehow it must have fucked up the wiring that is going through the headstrap.

I already found some interesting modding videos for the 770pro, like replacing the fixed cable with a cable jack to be able to switch out the cable easily, or plug in a combination of headset mic and headphone cable (eventually I'll want to turn this into a gaming headset by adding a microphone). But I haven't found a guide on how to lower the clamping force of these specific headphones.

"Why don't you wait till you have tried them first?"

Every headphone I've ever worn has had too much clamping force for my taste, and this one isn't famous for being light as a feather on your head, so it seems very likely it's going to be an issue.


edit: It seems like my Superlux HD681 didn't break after all, there was just a problem with the adapter at the connector and it's working fine again now.


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## Pier (Jul 23, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Hey! Hope it's ok if I necro this thread to post a headphone related question. I ordered DT770 Pro headphones yesterday and I expect I'll want to lower the clamping force of them (if I decide to keep them in the first place). I just stumbled over this video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've never tried the DT770, but I've owned the DT990 for a couple of years. The 250 ohm Pro version.

The clamping is not too hard IMO. Much less than my HD280. Also the full ear padding is super comfortable which AFAIK is the same on the DT770.

The most comfortable headphones I've ever tried are the HD600. My wife owns a pair of those and is in love. She is extremely sensitive about clamping and weight. Although those are open headphones and I'm guessing you're looking for closed ones. Not sure if Sennheiser has similar headphones but closed.


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## MartinH. (Jul 23, 2021)

Pier said:


> The most comfortable headphones I've ever tried are the HD600. My wife owns a pair of those and is in love. She is extremely sensitive about clamping and weight. Although those are open headphones and I'm guessing you're looking for closed ones. Not sure if Sennheiser has similar headphones but closed.


Thanks a lot for the recommendation! I wanted to give the 770 pro a shot first but if those don't work for me I might try the HD600. I'd prefer closed back, but it's not a total dealbreaker if they are open. The HD600's cost of almost 3 times the DT770 would make me think twice though. ^_^


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## SupremeFist (Jul 23, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Thanks a lot for the recommendation! I wanted to give the 770 pro a shot first but if those don't work for me I might try the HD600. I'd prefer closed back, but it's not a total dealbreaker if they are open. The HD600's cost of almost 3 times the DT770 would make me think twice though. ^_^


Also open back but the AKG k701 are the least "clampy" and most comfortable of my many headphones, and still a very solid choice sonically.


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## PeterN (Jul 23, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Thanks a lot for the recommendation! I wanted to give the 770 pro a shot first but if those don't work for me I might try the HD600. I'd prefer closed back, but it's not a total dealbreaker if they are open. The HD600's cost of almost 3 times the DT770 would make me think twice though. ^_^



You cant rely on these headphones solely. The DT770, you are going for. Speaking from 3 years experience. They are good, but they also cheat. they will not reveal too much bass, too little bass, and ...theres some high end stuff they completely miss. They dont have a clue about disturbing plucking noises in pianos etc.

I have compensated them, with two other headphones, one that boosts low, and another that boosts high. You will find a hell a lot of surprises. In conclusion, the DT770 are okay, but you better get add ons.


Or maybe you can boost that stuff. Fish it out. I dont know. These are good headphones, but they have faults.


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## erodred (Jul 23, 2021)

I get annoyed easily with things on my ears, including my own glasses. Never seemed to be bothered by the AKG 240 MKII at all.

I also have a pair of Audio Technica M40x and those are okay for a long time, but I think after 4+ hours it seems to get worn down.

I wear headphones all day for music/podcasts while at work.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 23, 2021)

Great thread

Funny though,

I've owned AKG K701, DT-770, ATH-M50x, and ATH-M40x

Even had a Schiit headphone amp

I sold them all

I now use Sennheiser HD-280 Pro


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## hoxclab (Jul 23, 2021)

I have a pair of K361s, Dt-770 80 Ohms and HD58x. I've had the HD600. I will say for mixing and mastering I prefer the HD58x over all headphones including the HD600's I had. They are absolutely phenomenal. I paid $119 for them and feel like I stole them. They smoke the HD600's in both terms of sound quality and comfort. Just finished an EP with them and it cut my time referencing in half.


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## MartinH. (Jul 24, 2021)

I got my DT770 pros today and I... kind of hate them? The clamping force is way too high for my taste. The earpads are too small for my gigantic ears. The sound feels lacking in bass. I hate how much they isolate against sound from the outside, because it makes my own voice sound weird to me and I was planning on using them as a gaming headset eventually. I thought my old gaming headphones that I'm used to were closed back, but I think they must have the characteristics of (half) open backs in comparison real closed backs. When it gets warmer they'll probably make me sweat like crazy which eventually seems to lead to ear pain for me.
But on the plus side I'm hearing new details in things that I mixed and feel like I'd have made better mixing decisions in some areas with the DT770pros because they make the difference in quality between my mixes and professional mixes more obvious.




PeterN said:


> You cant rely on these headphones solely. The DT770, you are going for. Speaking from 3 years experience. They are good, but they also cheat. they will not reveal too much bass, too little bass, and ...theres some high end stuff they completely miss. They dont have a clue about disturbing plucking noises in pianos etc.
> 
> I have compensated them, with two other headphones, one that boosts low, and another that boosts high. You will find a hell a lot of surprises. In conclusion, the DT770 are okay, but you better get add ons.
> 
> ...



From what I read about them before I bought them, I thought you must be exaggerating regarding the lack of bass, but now that I have them... bloody hell, I totally see what you mean! I couldn't believe it, but on one of my old mixing experiments the fundamental frequency of the bass synth was basically gone on the dt770 while I could still clearly hear it on both my consumer-grade headphones and 2.1 speakers.

By the way, you should check out this 3 part video series. I think it might answer some of your questions about mono compatible "wide lowend" in mixes, if you're still looking for solutions for that. It was quite the revelation for me (highly recommended to everyone here who hasn't seen it yet!):










hoxclab said:


> I have a pair of K361s, Dt-770 80 Ohms and HD58x. I've had the HD600. I will say for mixing and mastering I prefer the HD58x over all headphones including the HD600's I had. They are absolutely phenomenal. I paid $119 for them and feel like I stole them. They smoke the HD600's in both terms of sound quality and comfort. Just finished an EP with them and it cut my time referencing in half.



HD58x are the massdrop ones, right? Is there a good way to order them to Germany? I read it's not worth it because of import taxes. And given that I just received a totally unexpected 28 Euro UPS invoice for a _free _spare that I got (valued at 29$ normally) I'm scared of getting crazy high surprise invoices for import fees. Also returns seem unviable if importing stuff. So I'd rather order from Thomann or a similar store.

Do you think the Dt770 reveal anything that the HD58x don't? Why do you keep both?

How is the size of the HD58x earpads compared to the Dt770? My ears are so big, in the Dt770 they lightly touch the pads at the top and bottom, and they touch the foam cover of the drivers. Do the HD58x and HD600 have more space in these directions?


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## hoxclab (Jul 24, 2021)

The bass on the DT-770s are non-existent in comparison with the 58x. The 58x are from Massdrop. Thomann has the 650 though at a decent price which I would go with. I keep both because the DT-770s are great for tracking whereas the 58x are not. DT-770s are not as detailed as the 58x and I wouldn't even consider mixing with them. I need to hear the low end in the mix. They are well built though and great for composing or listening to music. If you found the clamping force on the DT-770s don't even consider the Sennheiser 600 series because I have a small head and small ears and I had to send back the HD600 because they were too tight. I find the DT-770s really too large. If you find the DT-770s too tight I'd recommend looking into a nice pair of IEMs.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 24, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I couldn't say, but I have AKG 701, Sennheiser 6XX (650) and Ollo S4 open-backed headphones, and the K371 are surprisingly close in terms of detail and balance.


I've read the K371s are sonically incredible, but the build quality isn't that great.

How are yours holding up?


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 24, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> I got my DT770 pros today and I... kind of hate them? The clamping force is way too high for my taste. The earpads are too small for my gigantic ears. The sound feels lacking in bass. I hate how much they isolate against sound from the outside, because it makes my own voice sound weird to me and I was planning on using them as a gaming headset eventually. I thought my old gaming headphones that I'm used to were closed back, but I think they must have the characteristics of (half) open backs in comparison real closed backs. When it gets warmer they'll probably make me sweat like crazy which eventually seems to lead to ear pain for me.
> But on the plus side I'm hearing new details in things that I mixed and feel like I'd have made better mixing decisions in some areas with the DT770pros because they make the difference in quality between my mixes and professional mixes more obvious.
> 
> 
> ...



I couldn't stand my DT770s, so much they turned me off anything from the DT series.

I'm interested in the HD series, but concerned they will be similar to the DTs and disappointing.


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## PeterN (Jul 24, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> From what I read about them before I bought them, I thought you must be exaggerating regarding the lack of bass, but now that I have them... bloody hell, I totally see what you mean! I couldn't believe it, but on one of my old mixing experiments the fundamental frequency of the bass synth was basically gone on the dt770 while I could still clearly hear it on both my consumer-grade headphones and 2.1 speakers.
> 
> By the way, you should check out this 3 part video series. I think it might answer some of your questions about mono compatible "wide lowend" in mixes, if you're still looking for solutions for that. It was quite the revelation for me (highly recommended to everyone here who hasn't seen it yet!):



Thanks.

The more you use them, the more you realise its like a broken torch in the dark forest. I still use them, but theres no way to solely rely on them. They do a terrible job in certain high frequency too. Like said, still use them, but with 2 add on headphones, to check highs and lows. You can fu.k up a mix badly if you think these headphones are enough.

About wider low end, will take a look. Thanks. I recognise two of those vids. Was actually referring to a ready wide low end, that has been phase checked but "ready widened" - or "ready mixed". so I dont need to deal with that sh.t. Anyway its a different topic. And moer complicated than that.


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## SupremeFist (Jul 24, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> I've read the K371s are sonically incredible, but the build quality isn't that great.
> 
> How are yours holding up?


No issues with the build here but I only use them for edrums/guitar tracking as I write and mix with Slate VSX exclusively now.


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## mybadmemory (Jul 24, 2021)

I can’t stand any other headphones than the AKG K240S comfort wise.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 24, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> No issues with the build here but I only use them for edrums/guitar tracking as I write and mix with Slate VSX exclusively now.


Most of my work will be tracking guitars and bass.

But now adding piano and orchestral.

Thinking about the K371s and possibly the HD6xx.

Glad you like the Slate system - I don't do Slate.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 24, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> I can’t stand any other headphones than the AKG K240S comfort wise.


I used those for YEARS - nice to see they are still highly regarded.


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## hoxclab (Jul 24, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> Most of my work will be tracking guitars and bass.
> 
> But now adding piano and orchestral.
> 
> ...


Dude get the HD6xx. Trust me. The K371s are not that great. Good for casual listening outside the house perhaps drinking a coffee in a cafe but not very useful for mixing. The highs aren't that great.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 24, 2021)

hoxclab said:


> Dude get the HD6xx. Trust me. The K371s are not that great. Good for casual listening outside the house perhaps drinking a coffee in a cafe but not very useful for mixing. The highs aren't that great.


Appreciate the input, but I need closed back.

I just tried the K371s and I liked them.

This is mostly for tracking and composing.

Especially guitar and bass.

I mix in mono.
All my work is mono.

I even A/Bd them against many others including the DT770, I prefer them over all the others.

That may change, I have 45 days to return them and I can get them now.

The HD6xx would be a crapshoot.

I don't have patience for that any more.


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## proxima (Jul 24, 2021)

I just got the hd600 and found them a bit tight. But I just clamped them on their own box overnight to loosen them a bit.


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## Fidelity (Jul 24, 2021)

hoxclab said:


> Dude get the HD6xx. Trust me. The K371s are not that great. Good for casual listening outside the house perhaps drinking a coffee in a cafe but not very useful for mixing. The highs aren't that great.


So _you're _that guy. If you're going to listen to music in a coffeehouse, get something less conspicuous like iSines- unless you really want to be seen, I guess 

Personally speaking, I love my Hifiman Devas. I had a pair of 6xxs that I sold thinking I didn't need headphones (woulda kept them otherwise), but I like these even more. Can wear them for hours (like the 6xxs) and the soundstage is great. They are open back, though, so I don't know if the OP would want them.


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## SupremeFist (Jul 24, 2021)

hoxclab said:


> Dude get the HD6xx. Trust me. The K371s are not that great. Good for casual listening outside the house perhaps drinking a coffee in a cafe but not very useful for mixing. The highs aren't that great.


I found the highs on my k371 quite harsh when I first got them but they have now settled down to more "prominent but smooth". I think they are wildly over-specced (ie great) for tracking headphones, and for mixing (if you need closed-back) they are to my taste better than the Sony MDR-7506 and possibly as good as anything up to the Neumann NDH20 (I don't have those... yet).


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 24, 2021)

Babyface Pro and the K371 seem a good match.

At first glance, at least - time will tell.

Very comfortable.


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## dcoscina (Jul 24, 2021)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Currently, I am wearing a pair of Sennheiser HD280 Pro headphones while composing music with sample libraries and also doing many hours of editing and rough mixing before I send things to someone else for proper mixing. I am currently working very long hours on music. Several friends recommended the Sennheiser HD280's and said they were good for many reasons - isolation, comfort, value and a relatively accurate sound reproduction without too much bass or treble and good detail in the middle.
> 
> ...


ATH-R70 open back for me, especially when monitoring- I live in a house with dogs that like to sing to my music so I cannot use reference monitors..


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## thebeesknees22 (Jul 24, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> Babyface Pro and the K371 seem a good match.
> 
> At first glance, at least - time will tell.
> 
> Very comfortable.


They look so squishy! 

I wonder though, how long will the pads last before they start flaking black stuff all over. I had that issue with my old focal spirits that finally bit the dust.

I just ordered some dt770's yesterday since I needed some new closed back ones for tracking. I suppose we'll see how that fit my bald head.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 24, 2021)

thebeesknees22 said:


> They look so squishy!
> 
> I wonder though, how long will the pads last before they start flaking black stuff all over. I had that issue with my old focal spirits that finally bit the dust.


good god, what kind of environments do you guys record in?


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## thebeesknees22 (Jul 24, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> good god, what kind of environments do you guys record in?


not a good one! Those focals i had were from around 2012-2013. So they were getting really old.


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## MartinH. (Jul 25, 2021)

I've changed my cable management a bit so that it's easier to switch between different headphones and I think that's what I'll have to get used to, since there is no good one size fits all solution for me as it seems.



hoxclab said:


> I keep both because the DT-770s are great for tracking whereas the 58x are not.


I have used the DT-770s a bit now and for tracking guitar parts it's actually great how isolating they are. Big improvement over open back headphones. I think it's worth keeping them for that alone. For mixing I feel like they still are better than what I have in some areas, but not enough to rely on alone.

I'm leaning towards buying the HD58x too now. Does Massdrop have sales? I could swear I've seen it at 120$ recently and it's 170$ now. I've seen a couple people from Germany report they paid about 180€ including shipping, fees, and taxes, but I don't know if that was for the on sale price or regular price. And apparently they are easy to sell on ebay if I don't like them.

Is the HD58x well suited for mixing metal with stupidly low tuned guitars and orchestral/hybrid music? That is what I'd mainly want to use it for. Mostly metal for now.

Edit: with HD58x we all mean the "HD 58X *Jubilee*", correct? 









Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 58X Jubilee Headphones | Open-Back Audiophile Headphones | Drop


Headphones with history. The HD 58X uses Sennheiser’s new 150-ohm drivers, has a glossy black headband and gray metal grilles. These open-back headphones continue to please many ears at an unbeatable price.




drop.com


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## hoxclab (Jul 25, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> I've changed my cable management a bit so that it's easier to switch between different headphones and I think that's what I'll have to get used to, since there is no good one size fits all solution for me as it seems.
> 
> 
> I have used the DT-770s a bit now and for tracking guitar parts it's actually great how isolating they are. Big improvement over open back headphones. I think it's worth keeping them for that alone. For mixing I feel like they still are better than what I have in some areas, but not enough to rely on alone.
> ...


Ya those are them and yes I got them for $119 during the sale. They dropped to $130 and then I used a first time purchase coupon of $10 to get them to $119. Never seen them this low. I'd also check out the HD650's from Thomann if you're from Germany. I have to say the bass in these headphones are excellent and would be perfect for the music you're working on.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 25, 2021)

After a day with the K371s, they definitely replace the HD280 Pros.

The K371s are significantly louder than the HD280 Pros - turning down the Babyface Pro output made the K371s shine.

These are great for tracking bass and guitar amp sims, which is the focus of my next few projects. I won't be doing any mixing.

Would I mix on these? Maybe - I'll try at some point and do some ref tests. I bet I'll grab a nice set of open backs for mixing down the line.

The build quality seems fine - I'm careful with my gear, so I'm not concerned.

The K371s are more comfortable FOR ME than any of the other headphones I've owned in the last several years.

Isolation is also a consideration, especially when I am tracking guitars and bass. 

It gets loud when I track - these do a good enough job of isolating.

Plus, I got a 15% off coupon which makes these affordable at $131.75 plus tax.

Funny, the reviews for these are all over the place - mostly for the bad QC with early runs. Understandable.

The Harmon thing seems polarizing too.

I like 'em.


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## Pier (Jul 26, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> The sound feels lacking in bass.


You could try using some EQ on your master channel.

If you're on macOS you could use Soundsource to add a system-wide EQ.

On Windows I use Equalizer APO. Not as nice as Soundsource, but does the job.


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## MartinH. (Jul 26, 2021)

Thanks for the recommendation!


Pier said:


> You could try using some EQ on your master channel.


It's better to use the monitoring fx chain for that, so that it doesn't export files with the correction applied. I did try that in the past and since I often switch between headphones and speakers I often forgot to turn this on/off, so I'm not a fan of the aproach. It doesn't really work in this case anyway, I just tried with a +12 db lowshelf on the problematic mix and it still doesn't compare to the impression I get on my 2.1 speakers. My DT770s just can't handle frequencies that low it seams.


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## Pier (Jul 26, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> It doesn't really work in this case anyway, I just tried with a +12 db lowshelf on the problematic mix and it still doesn't compare to the impression I get on my 2.1 speakers. My DT770s just can't handle frequencies that low it seams.


My DT990 have a ton of low end but it's a bit muddy.

In this regard I'm very happy with the HD280. The low end is a bit receded but with a bit of EQ to bring it out it's very snappy and sharp. They don't go as low as 20Hz, but I have no problem hearing stuff at 30Hz for example. Used them to work on my subwoofer library for Zebra alongside my home theater subwoofer.


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## Niah2 (Jul 26, 2021)

I've been using the Beyerdynamic 880DT Pro for 4 months now and I've never had a more comfortable pair of headphones and I'm loving the sound.


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