# Flying High, a new piano and cello piece.



## Valérie_D (Jul 5, 2014)

I just finished this piece for which I hired the cellist Christof Unterberger ..quite happy with it! :D 

https://soundcloud.com/val-rie-delaney/flying-high


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## RiffWraith (Jul 5, 2014)

The writing is wonderful. The mixing, and the sound of the cello, not so much. The cello sounds flat, and is desperately in need of some life. It's a bit too dry, and all in all, the piano and cello do not sit together in the mix too well. Try adding some verb to the cello, try some panning, and maybe some EQ: taking away a few db of 275 hz (or thereabouts) might help. Not too much - you dont want to get rid of too much of the body. Maybe some other cuts and/or boosts might help. The piano sounds good, however.

Cheers.


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## Blakus (Jul 5, 2014)

Nice work Valerie  Lovely cello playing by Christof too. 

In addition to Jeffrey's comments, there's one other thing that's bugging me! The cello is consistently slightly flat against the piano. I know Christof has good ears so I wonder, did you send a different piano sample for him to play to than the one in this final version? In any case, it's easy to fix by either detuning the piano slightly, or tuning the cello.

Thanks for sharing! Keep up the good work.


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## doubleattack (Jul 6, 2014)

Blakus is right. Sorry to say, but the intonation is ear-hurting - and have a huge influence of the whole atmosphere in the perception of the track.
Quite steady, so since the piano is midi, would be the better option to tune the piano a little bit down, I think. 
In addition to this: the very different treatment of the eighth notes in the piano and the cello are bothering me. The result is an indifferent gesture. The long notes are not really long, the fast notes are not really fast in the solo instrument, so for me a lot of the character of the music is wasted. Maybe that's a matter of taste, but your lovely writing shouldn't get oversweet by the interpretation?
Mixing would become much easier too after optimizing these two points, I think…

Nevertheless, very interesting, and I like the melodic quality of the composition very much!


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## Valérie_D (Jul 6, 2014)

Hey thanks everybody, that's exactly what I'm looking for, tons of constructive comments here.

I tried different things, I had a request for this piece however, to leave the cello very raw, compared to the piano which has a sustain.

The accompagment of the cello (second cello line) has a reverb on it, unfortunately, I only have Trueverb from Waves to play with, I will invest in Altiverb in the future for sure.

For the panning, I will try something.

Thanks for the Eqs suggestions.

For the interpretation..well the cello is spot on to what I wrote, and I listened to it several times after
Blakus and Doubleattack comment (Thanks!), I'll see about it : for me, I don't mind that the cello is a little bit looser than the piano, I don't find it flat but then again, my perception of the piece varies greatly depending of my listening conditions. 

I think I'll try everything everybody mentionned, thanks again!


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## Valérie_D (Jul 6, 2014)

*Tought it worth mentionning : even in my laptop speakers : soundcloud is super flat but when I listen to the original file, the cello has double the presence, as well as some natural reverb.


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## AC986 (Jul 6, 2014)

Nice playing Valerie and the cello theme against the piano works very well too. It's thoughtful.

I would get the piano and cello separated a bit more and put them in different room settings and experiment a little with that. It's not a huge issue but it's worth looking at options.


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## Valérie_D (Jul 6, 2014)

I tried different reverbs, it really changes the mood of the piece, I like it.

https://soundcloud.com/val-rie-delaney/ ... b-on-cello


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## Penthagram (Jul 6, 2014)

Hey valerie,

Lovely writing¡

Let me say that i find that cello and piano are untuned one for the other. Try to fix this as the overall result will be lot´s better.


right now are a bit disconnected.

i really like the piece but i think have a major problem regarding tuning between instruments. and it´s really exposed being just piano and cello.


regards¡


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## Valérie_D (Jul 6, 2014)

Ounce again this forum rocks..some re-recording are in progress


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## doubleattack (Jul 6, 2014)

Valérie_D @ Sun 06 Jul said:


> *Tought it worth mentionning : even in my laptop speakers : soundcloud is super flat but when I listen to the original file, the cello has double the presence, as well as some natural reverb.



Valérie, Sound Cloud is lousy for sure (mp3 156 kbps) but even in this format the final mix should be still represent the essence of the original.

bad tuning has nothing to do with that, though out with the mood of the whole piece.

Regards the more loose cello line: I see your point and conception; as I wrote, a matter of taste; for me it's getting in the direction of one dimensionality - in leave out of the possibilities of interaction between the cello and the piano. So I would ask myself: Why did you wrote a counterpoint line in the piano if both instruments shouldn't interact? 
The new reverb I find counterproductive to your philosophy too: If you like the more loose line of the solo cello in counterpoint to the piano, why they put together into one room?
The additional cello tracks get be drowned in this way too. It's hard for the ears to separate these.


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## Valérie_D (Jul 6, 2014)

I agree that the reverb drowns the whole thing a bit, the cello is being re-recorded today, both instruments are not in one room, the piano only has sustain. 

"Why did you wrote a counterpoint line in the piano if both instruments shouldn't interact?"

They can interact, I am just trying to find the right balance : it's fine to hear both instruments clearly, I'm just trying to put the cello a bit more as a solo instrument, while glueing the whole thing together


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## doubleattack (Jul 6, 2014)

Valérie_D @ Sun 06 Jul said:


> ...I am just trying to find the right balance …



That sounds very convincingly to me and I'm looking forward to the result! o/~ 
All the best!


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## Valérie_D (Jul 6, 2014)

Ok, Attachez vos tuques (scew your hat on :D )

I am a little bit deaf at this point, Christof re-recorded the whole thing, with a little bit more distance from the microphone, the cello is still solo, I will not add reverb to it because I tried everything and it just drowns the whole thing.

I think overall the balance is much better.

Comments are of course, still warmly welcome!


https://soundcloud.com/val-rie-delaney/flying-high

Bests,


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## AC986 (Jul 7, 2014)

That's very good. I can't hear any tuning issues there.

Let's face it, with live instruments anyway, you actually want a bit of tiny tuning issues to give it character, otherwise it gets very digital. Not tuning issues where you can actually notice it of course.


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## Jaap (Jul 7, 2014)

This version works a lot better Valérie. When I heard the first version I had tired ears so I couldn't really know if the slightly out of tune was good or bad.
But this works really nice. Beautiful writing and playing. The natural ambience of the cello works good in my opinion here and adding more verb would kill it, but that is just my opinion.

Great work done by you and Christof to make this new version!


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## doubleattack (Jul 7, 2014)

Valérie, your new version is much much better than the version before and very well played by Christof Unterberger! 
Mix is always a matter of taste, I find the reverb for this kind of music perfect.

I would suggest to make one version without the overdub tracks, and listen to it after some days of abstinence in comparison to the version with the additional cello tracks. 
I can not really see the reason for these, since you wrote some nice developments in the harmonic progression, so I think it's enough feed for our ears :wink: 
IMO the piece would be more clear or: Less could be more. But maybe that's a too personal opinion.

Nevertheless, congratulations again for your composition and for Christof's playing!


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## Goran (Jul 7, 2014)

Strongly disagree with all criticisms of the cello part. For my ears and sensibilities, there is absolutely nothing "flat" or "lifeless" there - the playing is superb, with very subtle and cultured, restrained elegance to it. I would take this over flashy dynamics/vibrato antics posturing as "expression" any time.


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## Blakus (Jul 7, 2014)

Goran, that is because you are listening to the new re-recorded version :D

Tuning is great now Valerie! Compliments for sharing your work and being open to suggestions. Great stuff!


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## emid (Jul 7, 2014)

There was indeed tuning issue in the beginning but the last upload is really great. Good job Valerie.


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## Valérie_D (Jul 7, 2014)

Wow! 

Thanks everybody for the support, comments, and most importantly : for not pulling any punches.

I must confess, my initial response to my first mix, after I received Christof's tracks 
was as follows : "Oh my god! Real live cello on my piece, this is so awsome!".

I realised afterwards that my train of thought could not really be objective, that's why I decided to unleash the piece to my peers over here, I needed the sober up :D 

I really really like the final version : there is reverb on the second voice (2 cellos in the graves) but when I add it to the main melody, everything turns into this blue-green-gooish-goo. It's not for lack of trying but I like the very raw and acoustic feel of the cello, the fact that Christof re-recorded everything a bit further from the mic gives better balance, we can hear everything and there is a bit more room for the melody.

Seriously, Christof was such a great treat to work with, I'm going to start composing cello piece just to collaborate with him again.

Bests,


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## Valérie_D (Jul 8, 2014)

Though I would share this little anecdote here : my dad called me this morning, telling me : "You know, even after more than a decade of being operational, we're not really tech-friendly and we never made a corporative video! Don't you have a little tune or something we could use in a video?"

... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJQdlphZAVA



Bests,


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## musicformedia (Jul 9, 2014)

Sounds beautiful - very elegant!


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## Valérie_D (Sep 22, 2014)

Ok, bragging time 

Since so many of you helped me with this piece, I though I would share the good news here: I just won a huge regional prize in my region, the ''Coup de Cœur amongst the Coup de Coeur'' of the jury, it is oddly put but they said they loved my work so much that they asked the competition to create a new prize just for me (!!).

So thank you again and thank you Christof for your beautiful interpretation.

Best Wishes,


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