# Moratorium proposed.



## Ashermusic (Nov 21, 2010)

I have listened to at least 1/2 dozen "action trailer" type pieces that use the following rhythm in just the last week: quarter note, then 8th note triplet, then quarter not and another 8th note triplet.

For non -trained guys: DUM, da-da-da, DUM, da-dad-da

Talk about cliche's. Surely folks can be a little more creative than this.


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## steb74 (Nov 21, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Sun Nov 21 said:


> I have listened to at least 1/2 dozen "action trailer" type pieces that use the following rhythm in just the last week: quarter note, then 8th note triplet, then quarter not and another 8th note triplet.
> For non -trained guys: DUM, da-da-da, DUM, da-dad-da
> Talk about cliche's. Surely folks can be a little more creative than this.


I personally don't find anything inherently wrong or cliched about that rhythm in particular, in fact I think it's a rhythm with a great amount of potential and exciting energy. The problem could be how that rhythm is used in the context of a whole composition, movement or section perhaps.


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## RiffWraith (Nov 21, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Sun Nov 21 said:


> Surely folks can be a little more creative than this.



Surely directors and trailer houses can be a little more receptive when a composer writes a cue that does not conform to what they were looking for?


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## Ashermusic (Nov 21, 2010)

RiffWraith @ Sun Nov 21 said:


> Ashermusic @ Sun Nov 21 said:
> 
> 
> > Surely folks can be a little more creative than this.
> ...



I see. So in your view, there is no compromise point between the totally predictable and the alien?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 21, 2010)

I like Jerry Goldsmith's take on that (from Patton):

bukata tum diddleukata tum rest-taka bukata bukata tum


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## mverta (Nov 21, 2010)

+1

Just Say No.


If you really want to grind the industry to a complete halt, try banning "epic drums," and "epic horns playing minor chords," and "epic choirs," while you're at it. Notice I mercifully left out staccato string ostinatos because I realize that would be cruel and unusual.


_Mike


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## Ashermusic (Nov 21, 2010)

mverta @ Sun Nov 21 said:


> +1
> 
> Just Say No.
> 
> ...



ROTFL!


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## David Story (Nov 21, 2010)

+1 LOL!


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## steb74 (Nov 21, 2010)

mverta @ Sun Nov 21 said:


> +1 Just Say No.
> If you really want to grind the industry to a complete halt, try banning "epic drums," and "epic horns playing minor chords," and "epic choirs," while you're at it. Notice I mercifully left out staccato string ostinatos because I realize that would be cruel and unusual.
> _Mike


I don't think it's necessarily fair to blame these gestures as such as opposed to the men, women and machines who have possibly turned them into clichés.
'Epic' never hurt this piece did it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwTBuXekW8E
(an 'almost' ancient example, I know ...but I hate to see the tools blamed and not the artist).

I don't particularly disagree with the points, everytime I hear a Bear McCreary pre commercial break percussive build up, there is always the urge to hack away at one's wrists a little.
I blame the studios, producers, etc, though instead of these tried and tested techniques, which in the right hands can achieve results that border on the miraculous.


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## Alex Temple (Nov 21, 2010)

No more D minor either.


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## Ed (Nov 21, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Sun Nov 21 said:


> For non -trained guys: DUM, da-da-da, DUM, da-dad-da.



Sounds like Mars?


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## RiffWraith (Nov 21, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Mon Nov 22 said:


> RiffWraith @ Sun Nov 21 said:
> 
> 
> > Ashermusic @ Sun Nov 21 said:
> ...



No - of course there is compromise. But the Q is: how much are the directors and trailer houses willing to compromise? With an occasional exception, they _want_ totally predictable - that's just how it is. If they didn't, every few months, we'd see a shift in the music, due to directors and trailer houses saying "give me something new - make sure it doesn't sound like xyz." But what do they say instead? I think we all know the answer to that one.

Cheers.


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## lux (Nov 21, 2010)

dont touch the C turnaround. you wont do it.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 21, 2010)

That's the price you gotta pay in the industry of film music and trailers. That's one of the things that turns me off about it. You are a slave to what society rules.


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## rJames (Nov 21, 2010)

Trailer editors want something that is totally different to make their work stand out. It has to be totally different while at the same time driving the energy up in a way that they, their producers, the ad agency execs and the studio will recognize and identify with.

Some of them are quite tired of the usual apocalyptic choir. But will revert to it when apocalypse (or a really good car crash, or a personal dilemma, or a toy being stolen from a child) makes it necessary.

The reality is that it is tough to sell an apple (or a pomegranate) when your client wants an orange.

But, I will agree to this when film composers agree to tell their producers or directors to put their temp track where the sun don't shine.


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## JJP (Nov 21, 2010)

Alex Temple @ Sun Nov 21 said:


> No more D minor either.


Thank you! I did a session where for an entire day the contrabasses played nothing but low D's. Almost every cue had a D minor pedal. :roll: 

Finally late in the day they had to play a couple of notes and they made their first goof of the day. I stopped, looked at them with a smirk and said, "What happened?"

The principal looked at me and said, "We saw something other than 'D' and got a little too excited!" :lol:


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## futur2 (Nov 21, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Sun Nov 21 said:


> I have listened to at least 1/2 dozen "action trailer" type pieces that use the following rhythm in just the last week: quarter note, then 8th note triplet, then quarter not and another 8th note triplet.
> 
> For non -trained guys: DUM, da-da-da, DUM, da-dad-da
> 
> Talk about cliche's. Surely folks can be a little more creative than this.



didn't even have to read what exact rhythm you're talking about to have it in my head. true yes :wink:


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## John DeBorde (Nov 21, 2010)

Jay just wants it all to himself so he can be the 'go to' guy in town for that riff. Don't buy into his bluff guys!


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## Ashermusic (Nov 21, 2010)

John DeBorde @ Sun Nov 21 said:


> Jay just wants it all to himself so he can be the 'go to' guy in town for that riff. Don't buy into his bluff guys!



Busted, LOL!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 21, 2010)

No D minor?!

I say no black keys.


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## John DeBorde (Nov 21, 2010)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Nov 21 said:


> No D minor?!
> 
> I say no black keys.



Racist!!!!

You must be one of those Dorian cats, eh?


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## germancomponist (Nov 21, 2010)

It`s all history.

Next year, in january, a new trailer sample lib is coming. It is called: "The big thunder". :-D


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Nov 22, 2010)

A beat is a beat is a beet. It's what you do on top that counts! (only half-joking).


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## poseur (Nov 22, 2010)

is a moratorium really called-for?
ha!

*{have any of all y'all read "black snow", by mikhail bulgakov? i hope so!}*

i'd prefer to simply foster creativity, personal expression & originality,
and hope for a growing multitude of individualistic voices.....
since i can't control what anyone else may do (or, even: what anyone else may want).

meanwhile, i'll probably continue using any damned thing that works for me
and for the films to which i contribute.

d


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## Ashermusic (Nov 22, 2010)

poseur @ Mon Nov 22 said:


> is a moratorium really called-for?
> ha!
> 
> *{have any of all y'all read "black snow", by mikhail bulgakov? i hope so!}*
> ...



Are you really so literal minded that you think I am actually calling for some kind of an agreed upon moratorium, like people here taking a pledge?

My point, which I thought was rather obvious, is that this particular rhythm is now so over-used for heroic action cues and trailers, etc. that it has become a total cliche' , to the point where I heard it used in 1/2 dozen examples in 2 weeks and therefore perhaps should be avoided.


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## poseur (Nov 22, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Mon Nov 22 said:


> Are you really so literal minded that you think I am actually calling for some kind of an agreed upon moratorium, like people here taking a pledge?


weeellll, jay..... communicating on the internets is unusually literally-based+derived, but:

nope!
i'm not; hence, my use of the word "ha!", instead of pasting-in
a monochromatic "smiley-freaking-face".
ha!



Ashermusic @ Mon Nov 22 said:


> My point, which I thought was rather obvious, is that this particular rhythm is now so over-used for heroic action cues and trailers, etc. that it has become a total cliche' , to the point where I heard it used in 1/2 dozen examples in 2 weeks and therefore perhaps should be avoided.



got yer point.
made an _additional_ (commentarial) point, myself, which was def clear, i thinks.
nu,
¿problems?
none, for me.

d


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## José Herring (Nov 22, 2010)

Don't listen to trailers often as I don't watch regular TV or look for them on the internet. But, once I saw your post Jay, I started to fool around with the rhythm a bit. Yielding lots of promising results for that big bad ass action style. Thanks for the tip! :mrgreen:


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## Mike Greene (Nov 22, 2010)

Not just action scenes, Jose. I'm using it for love scenes, too!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 22, 2010)

It works well for porno, Mike?


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## Patrick de Caumette (Nov 22, 2010)

Let's ban Ravel too!! =o


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## mverta (Nov 22, 2010)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Nov 22 said:


> It works well for porno, Mike?



Yes, he uses it with lots of wah pedal.

_Mike


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## John DeBorde (Nov 22, 2010)

Aw man! I was working on becoming THE goto wah wah pedal guy until those porno guys stole my thunder. 

I'm sorry...I need a moment...I guess that wound is still pretty fresh. :oops: 


<sniff>


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