# New Mac Studio - Streaming samples from internal SSD



## JohannesR (Jul 17, 2022)

Hi everyone!

Are we there yet where we can stream samples from the internal SSD?

I've seen some crazy benchmarks from the new Mac studio, and Apple's website states that the Mac Studio of capable of 7.4GBps read speeds! My trusty Samsung SSDs clock in at around 0.5GBps.

Cheers!


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## davidson (Jul 17, 2022)

I don't know if this is what you're asking, but I tried the same kontakt libraries on the internal vs external sata ssd. Results seemed to range from no difference to maybe 20% faster (load speed).


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## JohannesR (Jul 17, 2022)

Thanks, that's interesting to know. I think I've read that the loading times is not affected by the speed of the SSDs as much.

What I'm interested to know if one can actually run large templates solely from the internal SSD? That would be a bit of a milestone in my book.


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## IFM (Jul 17, 2022)

JohannesR said:


> Thanks, that's interesting to know. I think I've read that the loading times is not affected by the speed of the SSDs as much.
> 
> What I'm interested to know if one can actually run large templates solely from the internal SSD? That would be a bit of a milestone in my book.


I moved all samples to the internal. Much faster than the SSDs were and so far it’s not breaking a sweat with large projects.


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## sydcomposer (Jul 17, 2022)

I've been watching the read speed in iStat lately when opening projects... Currently using a Samsung T7 for most samples... I don't think I've ever seen the read speed go above 100MB per second. Even if I load up something big-ish like Noire.

I always thought the limitation was Kontakt not being able to load samples any faster than that (due to it reading randomly and not sequentially). I didn't think the newer (crazy fast) internal drives would make any difference here (eg new MacBook Pros). Am I wrong? Maybe iStat is a bad way to measure this? Just curious.

Wondering what the real world difference between external vs internal would be. I always thought Kontakt was the 'bottleneck' or is it the random read speed of the drive?


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## JohannesR (Jul 17, 2022)

IFM said:


> I moved all samples to the internal. Much faster than the SSDs were and so far it’s not breaking a sweat with large projects.


So you’re actually running a large template from the internal SSD on a Mac Studio, and it works a charm? That’s awesome.

Having samples and the projects on the same drive used to be a big no-no, but maybe those days are gone? If so, I definitely would want the 4TB or 8TB option when I eventually order a Mac Studio.


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## JohannesR (Jul 17, 2022)

sydcomposer said:


> I've been watching the read speed in iStat lately when opening projects... Currently using a Samsung T7 for most samples... I don't think I've ever seen the read speed go above 100MB per second. Even if I load up something big-ish like Noire.
> 
> I always thought the limitation was Kontakt not being able to load samples any faster than that (due to it reading randomly and not sequentially). I didn't think the newer (crazy fast) internal drives would make any difference here (eg new MacBook Pros). Am I wrong? Maybe iStat is a bad way to measure this? Just curious.
> 
> Wondering what the real world difference between external vs internal would be. I always thought Kontakt was the 'bottleneck' or is it the random read speed of the drive?


Are you talking about loading times or actual composing/programming? I can’t seem to find the thread, but if I recall correctly, faster SSDs didn’t seem to affect the loading times as much. But I believe that it actually let’s you stream more voices at the end of the day.

Would be great if someone can confirm?


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## sydcomposer (Jul 17, 2022)

JohannesR said:


> Are you talking about loading times or actual composing/programming? I can’t seem to find the thread, but if I recall correctly, faster SSDs didn’t seem to affect the loading times as much. But I believe that it actually let’s you stream more voices at the end of the day.
> 
> Would be great if someone can confirm?


Sorry, yes, I’m talking about load times.

I think you’re right about more voices… but don’t quote me… Not an expert on this.

I don’t run any big templates and open VIs on demand. Most of the music I make isn‘t very dense so as far as I’m aware the newer internal drives (eg on a new Mac Studio) would ’feel’ about the same - for me.

I’ve love to be proven wrong sooner rather than later as I’m about to order one. 😆


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## IFM (Jul 18, 2022)

JohannesR said:


> So you’re actually running a large template from the internal SSD on a Mac Studio, and it works a charm? That’s awesome.
> 
> Having samples and the projects on the same drive used to be a big no-no, but maybe those days are gone? If so, I definitely would want the 4TB or 8TB option when I eventually order a Mac Studio.


Projects are not on the internal drive. I keep those still on an external drive. I also plan of doing some weeding at some point and moving rarely used samples back to external so that the internal can be freed up for more useful things.


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## JohannesR (Jul 18, 2022)

IFM said:


> Projects are not on the internal drive. I keep those still on an external drive. I also plan of doing some weeding at some point and moving rarely used samples back to external so that the internal can be freed up for more useful things.


Right, thanks, may I ask if you’re running a large template? Multiple mics? Dense orchestration? Any hiccups?


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## IFM (Jul 18, 2022)

JohannesR said:


> Right, thanks, may I ask if you’re running a large template? Multiple mics? Dense orchestration? Any hiccups?


I’m one of those that doesn’t bother much with a lot of mics and generally use what’s premixed…most of the time. So far no issues on dense orchestration.


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## HCMarkus (Jul 19, 2022)

The days of needing to keep VI Samples and Project Data on separate drives are over. Of course, you can still do so if you wish, but the fastest data delivery on current Apple machines is from the internal SSD.


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## jcrosby (Jul 19, 2022)

At least in terms of Kontakt, the limitations are that Kontakt isn't coded to be able to read from disk very quickly. I don't remember the numbers, but in the thread linked below *Colony Nofi* explains about Kontakt's disk IO speeds based on benchmarking he does for the production company he works for, and goes into great detail about how Kontakt can't read more than something like 150 MB/s regardless of disk speed (again, I'm ballparking since I don't remember the actual figure).

The short version IIRC is that fast disks will increase polyphony, which is the far more important factor, but load times are bottlenecked by Kontakt's code, which is decades old. And unfortunately The fact that Kontakt has two decades of development, overhauling the code is way! more complicated than it seems from the outside-looking-in as an enduser...

In terms of polyphony, I can run a full orchestration off of an internal disk and the machine doesn't hiccup... In macos at least, it all comes down to the cost of the disk space vs storage requirements. Depending on your budget, this is where external disks make the most sense...

Anyway if you want to dig through the thread and try and find some of Colony Nofi's findings he explains it all in great depth. (It's a big thread! 90+ pages):






Mac Studio (New Hardware Mac Computer)!!!!


ooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhh yeah faster than new mac pro with 28 cores! 80% faster than the fastest mac pro intel using m1 ultra (see other thread) up 128gb of memory. finally.... fotos soon but its like a fat mac mini. tiny not gonna be cheap




vi-control.net


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## JohannesR (Jul 19, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> At least in terms of Kontakt, the limitations are that Kontakt isn't coded to be able to read from disk very quickly. I don't remember the numbers, but in the thread linked below *Colony Nofi* explains about Kontakt's disk IO speeds based on benchmarking he does for the production company he works for, and goes into great detail about how Kontakt can't read more than something like 150 MB/s regardless of disk speed (again, I'm ballparking since I don't remember the actual figure).
> 
> The short version IIRC is that fast disks will increase polyphony, which is the far more important factor, but load times are bottlenecked by Kontakt's code, which is decades old. And unfortunately The fact that Kontakt has two decades of development, overhauling the code is way! more complicated than it seems from the outside-looking-in as an enduser...
> 
> ...


Brilliant! Thanks!!

Yeah, I totally agree - polyphony is by far the important thing here.


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## IFM (Jul 20, 2022)

I will add that in LP at least usually I can now run a very low buffer but as soon as you have a mix of native and Rosetta plugins things get wonky and I have to go back to 256. I haven’t tested running LP in Rosetta mode only yet so that would probably help. Cubase is only one or the other (no hybrid mode) so it’s not much of an issue there and running at 64 is fine.


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## Emanuel Fróes (Aug 6, 2022)

JohannesR said:


> So you’re actually running a large template from the internal SSD on a Mac Studio, and it works a charm? That’s awesome.
> 
> Having samples and the projects on the same drive used to be a big no-no, but maybe those days are gone? If so, I definitely would want the 4TB or 8TB option when I eventually order a Mac Studio.


i guess 4 tb is anyway the safest for such investment. 8 tb may make not big difference. One does not need 2000 different orchestras loaded there no….


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## HenrikSkram (Jan 2, 2023)

JohannesR said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> Are we there yet where we can stream samples from the internal SSD?
> 
> ...


Hei Johannes! Did you conclude with anything for you setup regarding internal vs external storage of samples on the Mac Studio?


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## HCMarkus (Jan 2, 2023)

Yes, we are at the point samples can be streamed from Apple's super fast internal SSDs along with OS and Apps. Basically, if the internal drive is big enough, you need no other drive (except backups, of course!)


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## JohannesR (Jan 2, 2023)

HenrikSkram said:


> Hei Johannes! Did you conclude with anything for you setup regarding internal vs external storage of samples on the Mac Studio?


Hey Henrik, my friend! Great to see you here.

I put everything on hold. I figured it was safer to wait until the Apple silicon related bugs and compatibility problems were ironed out, so I'm sticking with my additional VEP computer for now.

That being said, I do believe that it's indeed possible to running everything off from the internal SSD, which is nothing short of awesome!


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## HenrikSkram (Jan 3, 2023)

JohannesR said:


> Hey Henrik, my friend! Great to see you here.
> 
> I put everything on hold. I figured it was safer to wait until the Apple silicon related bugs and compatibility problems were ironed out, so I'm sticking with my additional VEP computer for now.
> 
> That being said, I do believe that it's indeed possible to running everything off from the internal SSD, which is nothing short of awesome!


Yes, amazing...
- smart move, I guess.. I´ll probably jump in now, might as well get some good storagespace too
Ses!


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