# How did Hans Zimmer do those amazing glitchy vocals in the Dark Phoenix score?



## Vehrka (Oct 22, 2019)

Hey everybody, I’ve been in love with the Dark Phoenix score since it came out & I’ve been working on a track that kind of takes some inspiration from his score. The glitchy vocals I'm talking about pretty much start off at the beginning of the track in the link but really become clear around 3 minute mark.

The track I’m working on is perfect for the kind of vibe Hans’ created with his glitched vocals that can be heard throughout his score. I’ve been trying to create something similar but can’t seem to get anywhere close. I’ve tried using Glitch 2, Physion, Omnisphere, and Hysterisis and Fracture from Glitchmachines.

At this point, I don’t know if I should just slice a bunch of vocal samples into hundreds of little pieces or if I’m just not capable enough to do it with the plugins I have. Do any of you have any tips or ideas on how to achieve an effect similar to what Hans did?

Thank you in advance!

Edit just in case I get lucky and he sees: @Rctec


----------



## synkrotron (Oct 22, 2019)

I've not listened to the score presented yet but have you considered Backmask by Freakshow Industries?

It is free to download and try and you don't even have to pay for it if you don't want to.


----------



## Vehrka (Oct 22, 2019)

synkrotron said:


> I've not listened to the score presented yet but have you considered Backmask by Freakshow Industries?
> 
> It is free to download and try and you don't even have to pay for it if you don't want to.



I'm gonna check it when I get home, but a quick Google search definitely got me interested...thank you for mentioning it!


----------



## synkrotron (Oct 22, 2019)

No probs 

It is a bit of a strange plugin, for sure but you click on the "?" icon bottom left and help is provided on the GUI itself.

cheers

andy


----------



## José Herring (Oct 22, 2019)

Sounds like some sort of multi-tap delay like Tekturon with some sort of envelope on each delay tap. Like the vocal is sampled and then played back through a delay like that.

Any of a number of ways it could of been done. I've been a little out of the sound design loop so don't know what the latest gadgets are, but passage seems to me like it's a really creative use of some basic tools rather than some really complicated glitchy gizmo, which for some reason, never full works out for me.


----------



## Vehrka (Oct 22, 2019)

josejherring said:


> Sounds like some sort of multi-tap delay like Tekturon with some sort of envelope on each delay tap. Like the vocal is sampled and then played back through a delay like that.
> 
> Any of a number of ways it could of been done. I've been a little out of the sound design loop so don't know what the latest gadgets are, but passage seems to me like it's a really creative use of some basic tools rather than some really complicated glitchy gizmo, which for some reason, never full works out for me.



I've thought about getting Tekturon before but never gave it a real shot. I might have to download the demo and try it out. It doesn't seem like it should be took complicated which is why I feel like I might be overthinking it (which I tend to often do) which is why I might just try slicing a bunch of samples and putting them into a sampler. Like you, I was thinking it might just be really creative delay.


----------



## José Herring (Oct 22, 2019)

Yeah, I did a brief stint working for a sound designer at Remote Control to try and learn the ropes, not sure I ever really did but I did pick up that it seems as if doing lots of simple things is better than doing one complicated thing. 

So, in this case the chain could be to get a vocalist to do a killer phrase in the key and with the tempo. Run that phrase through a delay. Record that delay. Chop it up and edit the audio. Mess it up some more (double the track play it in reverse along with the original delay, ect or glitch that doubled track). Run it through filters and effects, print that track and fix any timing issues direct on the audio track. Make it into loops then drop that shit in the track tempo matched using Live or Cubases or even Kontakt time machine.

Also, my suggestion is to try not to mimic that track because nobody is really going to know exactly what went into making it. I remember doing some sound design back in those days and after 2 days straight of no sleep working on the tracks I couldn't even remember all the steps it took to get to the final track.

But, rather start with something basic then develop that basic until its something nobody has ever heard before. There could be 1000 cool ways to manipulate a vocal track. The guy that makes everybody's ear stand on edge is that guy that creates that 1001 cool way that nobody has done yet.


----------



## synkrotron (Oct 22, 2019)

josejherring said:


> But, rather start with something basic then develop that basic until its something nobody has ever heard before.



Big Plus One to that, although it can be fun, sometimes, trying to work out how something was done.


----------



## CT (Oct 28, 2019)

This track is so freaking cool. That's the only contribution I can make.


----------



## José Herring (Oct 28, 2019)

miket said:


> This is track is so freaking cool. That's the only contribution I can make.


Yeah, dude has a way of putting things together that nobody else in the world would think would work and yet he finds a way to make them work together. 

Always gets me thinking of the possibilities.


----------



## Pier (Oct 29, 2019)

The voices sound like these Indian vocal rhythms. I've heard them when practicing complex rhythms before learning to play the tabla.



I imagine if you slice those on some sampler and added some delays you'd get a pretty similar result.


----------



## k4music (Oct 29, 2019)

I feel those are konnakol samples (South Indian vocals) with fast tempo. Multiple samples looped and overlapped.


----------



## brenneisen (Oct 29, 2019)

k4music said:


> konnakol samples



coming from Hans it's more likely those are "cast" singers

my guess? those 3 girls from the cover (Loire, Suzanne, Katy) stretched, pitched, effected, multi-tracked...


----------



## brenneisen (Oct 29, 2019)

just found this so maybe the konnakol short stuff is Loire Cotler alone


----------



## NoamL (Oct 29, 2019)

The part at 7:19 is badass.  Feels like a development of the same artistic direction from Man of Steel (especially at 11:29) and Pirates 4 (remember "Mermaids"?)


----------



## asherpope (Oct 29, 2019)

Pier Bover said:


> The voices sound like these Indian vocal rhythms. I've heard them when practicing complex rhythms before learning to play the tabla.
> 
> 
> 
> I imagine if you slice those on some sampler and added some delays you'd get a pretty similar result.



Try the djent version...


----------



## merlinhimself (Oct 29, 2019)

A large part of the amazing sound is Loire, Katy, and Suzanne. Incredible vocalists. Loire also is absolutely great rhythms


----------



## k4music (Oct 29, 2019)

brenneisen said:


> coming from Hans it's more likely those are "cast" singers
> 
> my guess? those 3 girls from the cover (Loire, Suzanne, Katy) stretched, pitched, effected, multi-tracked...


yea yea possible. I meant the style origin could be from konnakol


----------



## gsilbers (Nov 1, 2019)

Sounded like half was live performer (later time stretched and looped and layered) and the other half is using a sampler slicer and and arp to trigger different vocal slices. Not sure in cubase but I’m guessing it’s similar to logic where a region can be sliced by transient and each slice spread across the keyboard and played lived. But the main juice seems to be the live performance.... 
@Rctec 
?


----------



## WaveRider (Nov 1, 2019)

Great track... never saw the movie so never heard this. Hans is pure genius.


----------



## j_kranz (Feb 23, 2020)

Came across this plugin, and this demo kinda reminded me of this...


----------



## GNP (Apr 26, 2020)

Amazing vocal manipulations. I also definitely hear Jerry Goldsmith's "Alien" motif at the beginning!
(the one where woodwinds played it in the first film)


----------



## José Herring (Jul 20, 2021)

Pier said:


> The voices sound like these Indian vocal rhythms. I've heard them when practicing complex rhythms before learning to play the tabla.
> 
> 
> 
> I imagine if you slice those on some sampler and added some delays you'd get a pretty similar result.



Lost track of this thread but never forgot it. Yes, that's exactly what it is. 

I remember when I was going to school and interned at a commercial jingle house. We use to hire this drummer name Glen Valez who had adapted this blend of Indian rhythmic drumming to the Bohdran and other hand drumming. He's amazing. 

I guess Hans knows him too and through him he probably found this vocalist.


----------



## José Herring (Jul 20, 2021)

Looking over this thread I see some beat me to my 2 year revelation.


----------



## germancomponist (Jul 20, 2021)

It sounds like music from hell. ...


----------



## José Herring (Jul 20, 2021)

germancomponist said:


> It sounds like music from hell. ...


In that Charlie Daniels song the Devil Went Down to Georgia, my biggest secret growing up from my family was that I liked the Devil's music better.


----------



## germancomponist (Jul 20, 2021)

José Herring said:


> In that Charlie Daniels song the Devil Went Down to Georgia, my biggest secret growing up from my family was that I liked the Devil's music better.



Coool! 

But, back to the track: It is so very well done! 
Sometimes it seems to me that Hans has access to other worlds that exist at the same time, as far as the (musical) vibrations are concerned.


----------



## Guido Negraszus (Jul 20, 2021)

What is the name of the track? The video is gone.


----------



## germancomponist (Jul 20, 2021)

I think it was this:


----------



## José Herring (Jul 20, 2021)

It was a separate release of Hans' demos I believe. I think the release is actually more popular than the movie itself.


----------



## Alchemedia (Jul 20, 2021)

synkrotron said:


> I've not listened to the score presented yet but have you considered Backmask by Freakshow Industries?
> 
> It is free to download and try and you don't even have to pay for it if you don't want to.


That website gives me nightmares!


----------



## NoamL (Jul 20, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I think the release is actually more popular than the movie itself.


Yeah the whole "experiments" OST release is excellent. I hope DUNE is that trippy and even more!

AFAIK Zimmer did not experiment too much with vocals before, but Dark Phoenix is this trippy introspective score centered around the female voice, and my hunch is that he will do something similar for DUNE, exploring the "humans as musicians" concept, all the kind of vocal sounds that can be produced, maybe using vocalists the way he used wind instruments on Interstellar? Stuff like that. Because it relates closely to the plot and themes of DUNE's story and the "superpower" that the main character unlocks.


----------



## Pier (Jul 21, 2021)

NoamL said:


> Because it relates closely to the plot and themes of DUNE's story and the "superpower" that the main character unlocks.


It makes sense considering _the voice_ used by the Bene Gesserit.

I expect a great deal of influence from Arab / Middle Eastern music too. Maybe even some Sufi stuff. Not only because of the desert and spiritual themes, but I think Frank Herbert was inspired by those cultures to create the Fremen.


----------



## Josh Richman (Jul 21, 2021)

So what plug-in / process was used to create the dark Phoenix demo tracks?


----------



## jcrosby (Jul 21, 2021)

Josh Richman said:


> So what plug-in / process was used to create the dark Phoenix demo tracks?


Most of the xperiments soundtrack from what I can tell is heavily layered live recordings. There's clearly a ton of editing and sound manipulation as well, I'm not saying that isn't the case... But the wall of sound effect from about 1:10 in X-HZT, (which is what I suspect people think of as "glitchy") sounds like a dense and heavily layered series of live recordings.

I recently was sent a raw vocal session tracked for a project with a similar-ish vocal approach and it's all about working with a vocalist that can do this kind of rapid syllabic chanting/whispering/singing.... From there my guess is various parts were isolated and made into loops, then heavily layered with other complimentary loops, creating a sort of massively dense rhythmic vocal wall of sound...


----------



## Josh Richman (Jul 21, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> Most of the xperiments soundtrack from what I can tell is heavily layered live recordings. There's clearly a ton of editing and sound manipulation as well, I'm not saying that isn't the case... But the wall of sound effect from about 1:10 in X-HZT, (which is what I suspect people think of as "glitchy") sounds like a dense and heavily layered series of live recordings.
> 
> I recently was sent a raw vocal session tracked for a project with a similar-ish vocal approach and it's all about working with a vocalist that can do this kind of rapid syllabic chanting/whispering/singing.... From there my guess is various parts were isolated and made into loops, then heavily layered with other complimentary loops, creating a sort of massively dense rhythmic vocal wall of sound...


Yes, but it does seem like some processing trick. I sear I saw someone claiming to have figured the technique.


----------



## jcrosby (Jul 21, 2021)

Josh Richman said:


> Yes, but it does seem like some processing trick. I sear I saw someone claiming to have figured the technique.


It could be and I'm not saying that processing isn't part of the soundtrack. But my guess is you're referring to the stuff around 1:10 of the track below?

What I hear is mostly just lots of layers of whispered/muttered/beat-boxed-like voice 'scatting' (for lack of a better phrase..) Maybe we're talking about different things, but the foreground of what's going on in the section linked below are real phrases.

*X-HZT:*


----------

