# Guitar Pedal Box Signal Path - Sending Signal Out of DAW to Pedal Box and Back In



## ryanstrong (Nov 30, 2017)

Making a guitar pedal box, or [email protected]# according to @christianhenson, and wondering about signal path.

Coming out of your DAW it is a balanced signal. The pedals are not balanced. Then when you come back in to your DAW I assume you want that to be balanced again?

SO do we need to have signal converter book ends units to convert the signal properly? Or is this unnecessary?

So...
DAW -> Audio Interface -> _balance to unbalance converter_ -> guitar pedals -> _unbalanced to balanced converter_ -> Audio Interface -> DAW

BUT, looking at @christianhenson's box it appears as though he just does...
DAW -> Audio Interface -> guitar pedals -> Audio Interface -> DAW

Does this matter or are we talking about microscopic tonal differences?

YouTube link to Christan's video.


----------



## wst3 (Nov 30, 2017)

connecting gear should be easy, it isn't. Connecting guitar stomp boxes to an audio interface can be a huge challenge for a lot of reasons, most notably different I/O configurations including level, signal type, and impedance. Your best bet is to use a device that matches everything up nicely. The difference could, in theory, be microscopic, but in most cases it will be quite audible.


----------



## ryanstrong (Nov 30, 2017)

wst3 said:


> Your best bet is to use a device that matches everything up nicely.


Right... exactly. But what IS that device? 
My set up is pretty standard RME Fireface 802 audio interface.


----------



## j_kranz (Nov 30, 2017)

You could use a reamp box to convert the line out signal to a guitar level impedance for the pedal, and go back into a hi-z input (i'm not sure about the RME, I assume it has an instrument in).


----------



## ryanstrong (Nov 30, 2017)

j_kranz said:


> You could use a reamp box to convert the line out signal to a guitar level impedance for the pedal, and go back into a hi-z input (i'm not sure about the RME, I assume it has an instrument in).


Yes, right I _could_ but my question isn't if I could but wether or not I _*should?*_
The RME does have a hi-z input, though if I want back in through one of those wouldn't that add unnecessary color.


----------



## j_kranz (Nov 30, 2017)

I was more answering the question previous to my post... "what is the device"... the simple answer would be reamp box out and DI box in... Although there's a lot of other aspects to the whole thing, what exactly are you sending back out (a guitar signal originally recorded through the hi-z? Synths/etc.?). If you're going through a bunch of unbalanced guitar pedals, I'd imagine the RME Hi-Z input is probably the least coloring thing in your chain.

To answer the other question, no you don't really _need_ to use anything other than cables to hook all this up, but you might get signal loss and/or noise in the system depending on what you are doing.


----------



## mc_deli (Nov 30, 2017)

Radial Engineering is your friend here


----------



## ryanstrong (Nov 30, 2017)

j_kranz said:


> I was more answering the question previous to my post... "what is the device"... the simple answer would be reamp box out and DI box in... Although there's a lot of other aspects to the whole thing, what exactly are you sending back out (a guitar signal originally recorded through the hi-z? Synths/etc.?). If you're going through a bunch of unbalanced guitar pedals, I'd imagine the RME Hi-Z input is probably the least coloring thing in your chain.
> 
> To answer the other question, no you don't really _need_ to use anything other than cables to hook all this up, but you might get signal loss and/or noise in the system depending on what you are doing.


Thank you!

What I would like to do is send ANY sort of audio signal out of my DAW. It could be orchestral samples, it could be a soft synth, vocals etc. I want to send that out of Cubase through my RME into some guitar pedals and then bring that signal back in to my computer with the least amount of noise or signal loss as possible without being crazy anal about (ie. you will gain 1% better quality if you invest in $1,000 worth of reamps and DI boxes).


----------



## ryanstrong (Nov 30, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> Radial Engineering is your friend here


Yes I've been looking at those products. But again... is it necessary? It looks like @christianhenson doesn't really see it is (or at least it APPEARS as though he doesn't, I did not see any reamps or DI's).


----------



## j_kranz (Nov 30, 2017)

ryanstrong said:


> Yes I've been looking at those products. But again... is it necessary? It looks like @christianhenson doesn't really see it is (or at least it APPEARS as though he doesn't, I did not see any reamps or DI's).


Indeed he doesnt, but it looks like a quickly put together video, so who's to say that's his final production setup... he's also going through a Strymon Zuma, which eliminates a lot of noise/power related issues right there. As for levels, I'm not sure he's taken that into consideration in this video, or it's just not a concern of his... either way I wouldn't take one youtube video as gospel.


----------



## ryanstrong (Nov 30, 2017)

j_kranz said:


> Indeed he doesnt, but it looks like a quickly put together video, so who's to say that's his final production setup... he's also going through a Strymon Zuma, which eliminates a lot of noise/power related issues right there. As for levels, I'm not sure he's taken that into consideration in this video, or it's just not a concern of his... either way I wouldn't take one youtube video as gospel.


Thank you for your comments!

If anyone has actually set one of these things up and have compared the difference would love to know!


----------



## ryanstrong (Nov 30, 2017)

Looks like it would be AROUND an additional $400 to put in to place a *reamp* and a *DI box* in to the chain.


----------



## j_kranz (Nov 30, 2017)

It can definitely get expensive... One good reason to take these into consideration when buying an interface too, I recently replaced my old interface with a Discrete 8 from Antelope... it has instrument/DI inputs and 2 reamp outputs all onboard, which is rare.


----------



## mc_deli (Nov 30, 2017)

ryanstrong said:


> Yes I've been looking at those products. But again... is it necessary? It looks like @christianhenson doesn't really see it is (or at least it APPEARS as though he doesn't, I did not see any reamps or DI's).


CH also just posted a video of a company doing a 5 figure wiring job on his home studio

I have the Radial 500 series EXTC for line->hiz i/o... but I also have some Eventide factor pedals - and they are switchable between line and hiz and all stereo... I also have access to Radial SGI line drivers... so I am a bit spoilt for choice when it comes to multi-room reamping and pedal integration. I actually made it a priority even though I do it vey little - and I should do it more (reamp and external FX chain I mean rather than straight up FX chains during recording). Do you really NEED any of this stuff - of course not - whatever sounds good!


----------



## synthpunk (Nov 30, 2017)

Maybe we can get @christianhenson to chime in ?


----------



## JT3_Jon (Nov 30, 2017)

It depends on the pedal. Most fuzz pedals need to have the same impedance as the guitar, so a reamp box is absolutely necessary or it will sound like a total garbage. Other pedals this might not be an issue and you can take the line output from your audio interface back into the line input (done this with overdrive pedals) but you will probably need to adjust the ouput gain from your interface or the input/drive knob on most pedals or they will overload. I personally run all my pedals through a reamp box now because I want to have one "guitar pedal" output and use fuzz pedals in my chain, but this might not be necessary for your setup. Just try it and see if you like the sound.

It really comes down to trial an error as pedals have different needs & uses, but if you want to be 100% sure, take the line output from your audio interface into a reamp box (I use one for Radial) run that output through your pedal chain (BTW, if you plan on having a long pedal chain or use long cables you will need a buffer pedal somewhere in your chain) & back into the hi-z input on your audio interface.


----------



## JT3_Jon (Nov 30, 2017)

ryanstrong said:


> Thank you!
> 
> What I would like to do is send ANY sort of audio signal out of my DAW. It could be orchestral samples, it could be a soft synth, vocals etc. I want to send that out of Cubase through my RME into some guitar pedals and then bring that signal back in to my computer with the least amount of noise or signal loss as possible without being crazy anal about (ie. you will gain 1% better quality if you invest in $1,000 worth of reamps and DI boxes).



Have you tried just hooking up the pedals you want to use, and run some sounds through them out of your interface? The key here is to not overload the pedal, but you can either adjust the send amount from your DAW or the input on the pedal. Most pedals work fine like this, but if you hear a ton of extra noise (which happens often with fuzz pedals) the pedal is reacting to the line level signal and you will need a reamp box.

BTW, this pedal is pretty good solution as well: Keymaster


----------



## ryanstrong (Nov 30, 2017)

JT3_Jon said:


> Have you tried just hooking up the pedals you want to use, and run some sounds through them out of your interface?


Not yet. Waiting on a shipment of cables. I will be using a range of pedals from cheap crappy pedals to nice pedals of all varying power needs.

One thing I have tried is run my guitar through my RME instrument pre in to S-Gear and it sounds pretty good. I then went from my guitar -> chorus pedal -> RME INST and it sounded like crap. And this is a brand new really nice chorus pedal that sounds amazing through a real amp.

SO that scenario has got me thinking I may need some help.


----------

