# Studio One - Do you think there's any chance for surround?



## nogills (Mar 10, 2021)

I know this is all speculation, but for you guys who have been on the S1 train for a while and may understand what the company is going for more than me, do you foresee them ever introducing surround mixing?

Along with composing I do audio post production and would absolutely love if they brought surround to S1 (and a video track!), but not sure if that is something even remotely on their radar.


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## uselessoldman (Mar 17, 2021)

The simple answer is no and never. Those of us who use or did use Studio One have screamed at Presonus for years and they choose to simply ignore us. For that reason no one could and should consider it a serious DAW, its a sad excuse.


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## Instrugramm (Mar 17, 2021)

nogills said:


> I know this is all speculation, but for you guys who have been on the S1 train for a while and may understand what the company is going for more than me, do you foresee them ever introducing surround mixing?
> 
> Along with composing I do audio post production and would absolutely love if they brought surround to S1 (and a video track!), but not sure if that is something even remotely on their radar.


You can import video and they have been improving with every update (take a look at their latest improvements) so I guess surround will come at some point.


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## uselessoldman (Mar 17, 2021)

Maybe some day one day in the distant future, but until then, use something else


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## nogills (Mar 17, 2021)

uselessoldman said:


> The simple answer is no and never. Those of us who use or did use Studio One have screamed at Presonus for years and they choose to simply ignore us. For that reason no one could and should consider it a serious DAW, its a sad excexcuse


I think calling it a sad excuse is a bit harsh just because it doesn't do surround - I've found that it's pretty amazing for music and has even been fine for more basic post audio (corporate stuff, TV ad's, etc). But yeah, It isn't there yet for more complex post audio.
I guess the answer for now is use a 2nd DAW for this.

I'm still crossing my fingers they'll eventually introduce it - maybe in v6!


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## Pier (Mar 17, 2021)

Probably at some point in the future, but I can see why Presonus is not focusing on this.

99.999% of music is still being produced and played in stereo. Studio One is not geared towards media composition or post production where surround is mostly used.


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## nogills (Mar 17, 2021)

Pier said:


> Probably at some point in the future, but I can see why Presonus is not focusing on this.
> 
> 99.999% of music is still being produced and played in stereo. Studio One is not geared towards media composition or post production where surround is mostly used.


Yeah, with the new improvements to the score editor and articulation mapping (they now call it Sound Variations), I'm hoping its a sign that they are opening up more to media composition, and one day post production.


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## Pier (Mar 17, 2021)

nogills said:


> Yeah, with the new improvements to the score editor and articulation mapping (they now call it Sound Variations), I'm hoping its a sign that they are opening up more to media composition, and one day post production.


Ah good point!

I saw there was a new version released but missed those features.


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## nogills (Mar 17, 2021)

Pier said:


> Ah good point!
> 
> I saw there was a new version released but missed those features.


Yeah man check out the video on Youtube about "Sound Variations" , it's really impressive and useful! And they teamed up with VSL so whenever you load VSL, it automatically populates the articulation map. Hoping other library companies will jump on board. Really cool stuff!


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## uselessoldman (Mar 17, 2021)

I consider your DAW like a woman. You find one you like and you stick with it and fingers crossed there after you continue together in harmony and everlasting happiness. hahahhahahahah. So with Studio One and lack of surround the alarm bells start to ring right from the start. What DAW you start out using isn't too bad but to change later could be a massive decision.

So with Studio one its like a dolly bird. Those first impressions are there to purposefully gloss over trick you WOW you over its faults failures and deficiencies. You realise what you see is only what you get there is nothing of substance inside.

We have all heard the lame excuse that music is only produced in stereo. But modern Studios do not just produce music, and there lies the problem, it could never can never will never be consider a Studio quality DAW without the surround. Ots best described as a home Studio Daw at best, and even then some of us need and use surround.


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## Stringtree (Mar 17, 2021)

Reaper does surround, and it's exhilarating. 

It's just weird. Like 3D movies. Need too much stuff. People don't like it, the tech.

So I figured out how to do AC3 encoding, and it's VERY smol. Compressed, sure, but I know how now. 

Immersive music is like discovering how to m********* or listen to Blu-ray discs. Once it is experienced, it colors one's perceptions and expectations. 

The ability to cast sounds to speakers around a listener is not an insignificant ability. 

Dare you to try it. It's hard, but it's amazing. 

Video games. Movies. Why is stupid YouTube not doing this?


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## maestro2be (Mar 17, 2021)

I actively use S1 and have since v2 however, surround sound is my number 1 desired feature at this point (and has been for years). I think they will one day, just no idea when.


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## nogills (Mar 17, 2021)

maestro2be said:


> I actively use S1 and have since v2 however, surround sound is my number 1 desired feature at this point (and has been for years). I think they will one day, just no idea when.


Yeah there are multiple feature requests for it on the S1 forum and I know people have been asking for years. Seems like they would want to be able to compete with the "big boys" like PT/Logic/Cubase etc in the post production world, but who knows.


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## uselessoldman (Mar 17, 2021)

I have a lot of old project work in Studio One so occasionally have to return and use it but I have moved on since. I now just mix down the stems and export. I used to like the remote app but now I have the x32 mixer I no longer need to use it.

Yip Stingtree working in surround is fun if sometimes mind boggling frustrating trying to achieve what is in your head. I used drums to learn how it worked so I had all the toms and cymbals round me, was great fun trying to get the sound exactly where you wanted where you hands were. But


nogills said:


> Yeah there are multiple feature requests for it on the S1 forum and I know people have been asking for years. Seems like they would want to be able to compete with the "big boys" like PT/Logic/Cubase etc in the post production world, but who knows.





nogills said:


> Yeah there are multiple feature requests for it on the S1 forum and I know people have been asking for years. Seems like they would want to be able to compete with the "big boys" like PT/Logic/Cubase etc in the post production world, but who knows.





nogills said:


> Yeah there are multiple feature requests for it on the S1 forum and I know people have been asking for years. Seems like they would want to be able to compete with the "big boys" like PT/Logic/Cubase etc in the post production world, but who knows.


nogills as I said its all for show, I guess since they sell mixers and DAW controllers they have to have their own DAW like Behringer will have. Saw through that moved on moved elsewhere. and yes we all screamed about it years ago and Presnous ignored us so if they think they can stick two fingers up at us we have the power to do it back and walk away


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 17, 2021)

Really though, what % of S1 users NEED surround support? Vs. what % needed articulations (it was one of the most requested features)? Presonus prioritized and has delivered the best articulation map implementation I've seen. Surround support requests have ~100 votes, articulation maps had 750. I'm sure Surround will be prioritized, either due to customer demand or due to Presonus' vision for the DAW and where it fits into the landscape.



uselessoldman said:


> So with Studio one its like a dolly bird. Those first impressions are there to purposefully gloss over trick you WOW you over its faults failures and deficiencies. You realise what you see is only what you get there is nothing of substance inside.


Really living up to your username, aren't you.


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## samphony (Mar 17, 2021)

uselessoldman said:


> Maybe some day one day in the distant future, but until then, use something else


Give them time. They’ll figure it out.


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## uselessoldman (Mar 17, 2021)

haha yip there is a certainly irony to me using uselessoldman, hard earned playing WOT for the past 9 years. I have to agree their articulation implementation was extremely well done so I will give them some well earned credit for that.


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## nogills (Mar 17, 2021)

uselessoldman said:


> haha yip there is a certainly irony to me using uselessoldman, hard earned playing WOT for the past 9 years. I have to agree their articulation implementation was extremely well done so I will give them some well earned credit for that.


uselessoldman, just out of curiosity what else besides surround do you think S1 is missing that prevents it from being considered a serious DAW?


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## uselessoldman (Mar 17, 2021)

Now that is a serious question. How about a more customisable plug in management structure. I have thought about this before so let me try and explain. You have different steps from recording mixing and mastering oh and live all use different plugins or some shared but you never need all of them all the time. SO lets take user 1, they only need a small select few plugins so they create a user 1 fav group for instruments and maybe a few subgroups for effects. A guitar player who needs guitar sims with effects for example. They have lets say 20 plugins they want the rest can be ignored. SO inside the plugin management system you create user 1 and link to their fav plugins. Then you have a choice on boot up, do you want to boot with only those user 1 plugins or all available or project etc ? This would or could substantially reduce the boot time of the DAW cos it can take ages depending on the specification of the computer and plugins installed. I have a similar system but I had to create the custom vst folders and change the name before booting. Similarly during mixing I only need the used plugins and the mastering tools, not all the other instruments or effects. So I have custom vst folders that I create for specific purposes or projects. I have done similar for Kontakt cos that is just as bad if not worse and a database rebuild yeah right. I would like to double click a fader and it reset or a group. Also the bottom channel strip to name track is just too limited 2 lines would be nice and why not little icons like I have on my Behringer X32 mixer? Then there is the opening screen. I have tons of songs and I would like to have groups and subfolders on there to. SO band and then a subgroup for their songs. I have 32 in 32 out, when setting up channels in IO why not highlight the rows left and top as I move the mouse so I know its channel 20 input/output 30 cos if I change the mixer settings I then have to change the DAW to sync.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 17, 2021)

And which other "serious" DAW allows for picking between different set of plugins to enable on start up?

Pro Tools has none of what you mentioned - would you consider it not a serious DAW for mixing?

S1 has Favorites and Recents as plugin options during usage. You can CMD+click to reset a fader - just as simple as double clicking.


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## uselessoldman (Mar 17, 2021)

Studio One is good, really good for anything in stereo. But its lack of surround is a serious omission if you do need to go further. When you compare Studio One against the competition I would say 99% of the time it holds up well. But that 1% an its that 1% that can make the difference, it can't even show up, none starter, missing. I appreciate Studio One is a new DAW compared to most and Presonus have done an incredible job developing Studio One to where it is today. It is hard to fault or even find a fault, except in one specific area which for video production is critical, surround. SO when you said few have requested it, that maybe because those who are in the video business just do not even consider it since it fails to meet their criteria of must have features. But as many would argue, surround is not new technology it has been around for decades, a substantial number of systems people own have surround capability and would it not be nice, considered reasonable, if you create music on a specific DAW to then go on and make the video in the same DAW? not to then be forced to change to something else?

As much as I love and hate the corporate owned and controlled modern Internet, you have to play their game. Youtube is where you earn money, and yes its audio is abysmal, but its video so when you are making serious attempts to break into the industry, video is critical. I know you will say but if Youtube thinks surround is of little importance then maybe Presonus think the same. That I cannot argue against, my only argument would be, we live in an imperfect world !!


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## Robin (Mar 18, 2021)

So your argumentation went from


uselessoldman said:


> So with Studio one its like a dolly bird. Those first impressions are there to purposefully gloss over trick you WOW you over its faults failures and deficiencies. You realise what you see is only what you get there is nothing of substance inside.


to


uselessoldman said:


> Studio One is good, really good for anything in stereo. But its lack of surround is a serious omission if you do need to go further. When you compare Studio One against the competition I would say 99% of the time it holds up well.[...] It is hard to fault or even find a fault [...]


within half a day?


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## uselessoldman (Mar 18, 2021)

all cos of surround sound. For some it might be a critical feature when considering what DAW is for them or not and make it simply a none starter, sad cos they miss out on what it does do well. I can understand users supporting and defending it, it deserves their support. But for others who need surround there is nothing to defend if a critical feature they need is just not there. I find it sad its missing, perplexed, and for that reason, a critical reason, I do not cannot consider it a serious Studio DAW, its a good DAW a great DAW at what it can do, but with serious limitations, a limitation that means it cannot be considered in the same league as some others which do have surround, which is I think almost EVERY other Studio or Pro DAW on the market... You could say I am bewildered even a little angry maybe annoyed is a better word but its narks me no end cos it is a good DAW one of the best, except for one critical feature - SURROUND


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## Korindian (Mar 18, 2021)

When I was considering switching from Cubase to Reaper or Studio One, I was interested in whether Studio One had surround support. Some time ago, on the feature request site, I saw one request for surround that had around several hundred votes. It was relatively high up in the most voted category. After around a year, I checked again, and saw that particular feature request was hidden for some reason:

https://answers.presonus.com/11484/5-1-7-1-surround-mix-in-studio-one-3?show=11484#q11484

Anyone know why they decided to hide such a highly voted feature request?

Since then there's been a smattering of surround requests, but not in any one focused place:

https://answers.presonus.com/29820/5-1-surround-mixing-with-suggested-channel-strip
https://answers.presonus.com/10611/future-features-5-1-7-1-surround
https://answers.presonus.com/55161/studio-one-5-surround-mixing-duplicate
https://answers.presonus.com/40846/fr-surround-5-1-7-and-beyond-desperately-needed-in-studio-one
https://answers.presonus.com/38777/add-multichannel-outputs-for-surround-ambisonics
https://answers.presonus.com/35549/when-will-so-support-surround-mixing


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## uselessoldman (Mar 19, 2021)

Without any doubt Studio One has built up a solid userbase and a good reputation as it is good at what it can do. Clearly there is a constant sales drive for new DAW users who may not even consider surround as a feature, ignorance is bliss or dangerous. So they plash out on the software or get it free with some interface and think its great and stick with it. It is only when you need or want to experiment or use surround then you suddenly realise its flaw and limitations. You look at all the other main DAWs and think to yourself, so if they all have it in some form why not Studio One, million dollar question !!

Studio One goes through a 3 years reversion cycle. Ver 3 was 2015 Ver 4 2018 and now we have ver 5 in 2021, between them we get the bug fixes and small increment improvements. They never give us much if any info on what work is being done to it, what features will be in the next version, its just wait and see. 

I would never expect Dolby Atmos I believe the license is expensive and you need specialist and very expensive hardware. But that does not stop them doing 7.2 at the least. However maybe their argument would be the issue over whether 7.2 is needed when Atmos is now the standard? and maybe that if you want Atmos then you would invest in the Dolby Production package and specialist hardware and all the licensing requirements that come with it is irrelevant to Presonus and Studio One. 

I can mix in any output configuration I want into a 7.2 receiver and it works fine, the only limitation and the problem is mixdown. There is no way in the end to mixdown in surround.


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## Roland-Music (Jul 21, 2021)

Pier said:


> 99.999% of music is still being produced and played in stereo. Studio One is not geared towards media composition or post production where surround is mostly used.


Yes, that is the correct answer 

presonus S1 one has NO, absolute NO Focus for Film- or Mediacomposer, the other showstopper is Beatmapping for scoring to picture, which don't exist in S1. 

You need >300 Votes for Feature Request to get attention from the presonus Dev Team.





Tempo Mapping - Set Measure Beat at now - Questions & Answers | PreSonus


ISSUE: You currently can't change the Tempo or set a Measure Beat at now for Locked ... with locked SMPTE-Timecode or Position (Screenshot below).



answers.presonus.com


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## José Herring (Jul 21, 2021)

I feel that Surround may be on its way out and will get taken over by various forms of Dolby Atmos. I honestly think that if a DAW isn't surround capable right now then, I feel that they are more likely to adopt things like Immersive Audio on the low end and full on Atmos capabilities on the high end of the spectrum. 

I think that since Studio One is geared mainly towards the home studio to the project studio environment, I'd look for it to include Immersive audio features in the near future. Stuff that will go on Itunes and other streaming platforms when then start including the Immersive audio codec. 

Realizing that the market is 99% streaming, I think that DAWS like Studio One which is already geared towards release direct to streaming platforms, will gravitate to Immersive Audio before they hitch their wagon to a small niche market like Surround Sound Mixing. 



uselessoldman said:


> I would never expect Dolby Atmos I believe the license is expensive and you need specialist and very expensive hardware. But that does not stop them doing 7.2 at the least. However maybe their argument would be the issue over whether 7.2 is needed when Atmos is now the standard? and maybe that if you want Atmos then you would invest in the Dolby Production package and specialist hardware and all the licensing requirements that come with it is irrelevant to Presonus and Studio One.



Not necessarily. You may need it at the very high end at the moment but there are different Dolby Atmos options from Immersive Audio which is really cheap to full on multi speaker arrays. 

I don't know how old you are but if you recall Dobly surround sound needed special expensive hardware and it was stupidly expensive, now surround sound capability is standard for every DAW. Atmos will go through the same transformation because in the end it's just software.


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## nogills (Jul 21, 2021)

Roland-Music said:


> Yes, that is the correct answer
> 
> presonus S1 one has NO, absolute NO Focus for Film- or Mediacomposer, the other showstopper is Beatmapping for scoring to picture, which don't exist in S1.
> 
> ...


With all the recent features they have given us in the past few updates for composing, I don't know if it is totally true that they have absolutely no focus on it. The recent Sound Variation feature update (basically really cool articulation managwment) is meant for composers - so hopefully they implement more film/media composing features and upgrade their video implementation


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## Pier (Jul 21, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I feel that Surround may be on its way out and will get taken over by various forms of Dolby Atmos. I honestly think that if a DAW isn't surround capable right now then, I feel that they are more likely to adopt things like Immersive Audio on the low end and full on Atmos capabilities on the high end of the spectrum.


Dolby Atmos still includes traditional 5.1 or 7.1 surround tracks, but it adds object based effects (generally used for height effects).

Maybe one day all surround audio will be object based but I don't think it's going to be soon.


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## Dietz (Jul 21, 2021)

Just a side-note:



Pier said:


> Maybe one day all surround audio will be object based



Doesn't make much sense for actual recordings, especially in case of main-mic setups like Decca and the like ... channel-based formats are still the way to "map" those microphone inputs properly.

Or in other words: You can't record an orchestra in Atmos.


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## Pier (Jul 21, 2021)

Dietz said:


> Just a side-note:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm good point.


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## uselessoldman (Jul 21, 2021)

Dietz is correct and surround really is more suited to movies/video than music. Dolby Atmos is a specialised format requiring audio equipment most people/studios would consider an expensive luxury and probably find difficult to properly utilise and justify. Mixing and mastering music with 2 speakers (stereo) is technical enough and any more would go beyond what is necessary. I would prefer to buy 2 good speakers than 5 or more moderately priced ones.


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## Dietz (Jul 22, 2021)

uselessoldman said:


> Dietz is correct and surround really is more suited to movies/video than music. Dolby Atmos is a specialised format requiring audio equipment most people/studios would consider an expensive luxury and probably find difficult to properly utilise and justify. Mixing and mastering music with 2 speakers (stereo) is technical enough and any more would go beyond what is necessary. I would prefer to buy 2 good speakers than 5 or more moderately priced ones.


Don't get me wrong: I LOVE music in 3D formats like Auro or HOA. Stereo is good, but Immersive is better. 8-)


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## Robin (Jul 22, 2021)

uselessoldman said:


> Dietz is correct and surround really is more suited to movies/video than music. Dolby Atmos is a specialised format requiring audio equipment most people/studios would consider an expensive luxury and probably find difficult to properly utilise and justify. Mixing and mastering music with 2 speakers (stereo) is technical enough and any more would go beyond what is necessary. I would prefer to buy 2 good speakers than 5 or more moderately priced ones.


Especially in orchestral music where the sound and reflections of the room play a large role for the overall sound, 3D formats add a tremendous amount of quality. Just being able to properly replicate the reflections from ceiling and walls creates a considerably more realistic acoustic impression.

A few years ago, I was recording a score of mine in 3D format, ultimatively ending up in Atmos. We placed 4 mics above the conductor pointing towards the ceiling of the studio. I didn't pay exact attention how the mix engineer placed those in Atmos but I think he placed these 4 mics as static objects in the Atmos matrix.
The difference was like night and day when turning these signals off and on. It really makes a huge difference.

So I wouldn't agree that 3D format is not suitable for music, in some circumstances, it really adds a lot to the music.

In fact, some streaming services like Tidal and Amazon recently launched parts of their catalogue in specific atmos mixes and even some well done Pop mixes in Atmos really do sound phenomenal.


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