# How do you blend strings with and behind melody?



## roxstar (May 17, 2020)

However I try I can not make my strings blend with melody.

I am using root triad notes on basses and cellos, and I am using thirds and fifths up on violas and violins.
Or it can be like violas edited thirds or edited fifths, and violins thirds and fifths.

And however I try to do modwheel cc#1, in same motion like melody, strings are somewhy harsh, and they sound like they do not follow the melody and do not blend with it.

Can someone help me with the problem and explain this topic like I am 5.


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## sinkd (Jun 5, 2020)

Hi there! What libraries are you using? (for starters)


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## andrijatheloki (Jun 5, 2020)

So,

1. first of all depends on the quality of the instruments, meaning, if the this instruments are too harsh, they are too harsh, meaning, find a way or vst samples that doesn't sound harsh. Simple solution, best solution.

2. Eq about 3-5 khz, that is the sensitive zone, and the melody instrument ,boost the same area. Find harshness and eq it... But again, best way is to fix it in the samples. 

Again, it all depends exactly what are you talking about, you can upload a short audio perhaps.

Cheers!
Good luck!
Loki


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## Illico (Jun 5, 2020)

Do you record your strings instruments from a keyboard controller or from your DAW editor ?

Does your instruments has multiple articulations (legato, marcato, shorts, etc) ?

You have to know and understand how a violin works.

During the recording from keyboard controller, you have to think like a "violinist" and not like a "pianist".


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## roxstar (Jun 10, 2020)

Guys, here is my talente mess.









mess - Clyp


Listen to mess | Clyp is the easiest way to record, upload and share audio.




clyp.it





It sounds like every new note is a new scale, great result.
I could not get worse if I wanted and I have no idea where is my problem.
I wont even make music if no one helps me.

It is short 🤷‍♂️ but well if I cant get one bar right its useless to continue.
It is splitted one bar, so someone can notice why I get such horrible sound.


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## andrijatheloki (Jun 10, 2020)

roxstar said:


> Guys, here is my talente mess.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey! 

So first of all, every new note is a new scale, because you are using parallel movement, so you are in C-major,you play I.st chord (C E G) , then you go paralel to II - (DFA) , afterwards you go to VI - or (ACE). Its a full parallel movement. Try adding V. - or (GHD) and then I, and second try to change voices ,( Chord) so they dont go into the same direction, for example, second chord, instead of using CEG-> DFA, try CEG-CFA - which is the second inversion of IV (FAC), So the C note stays, and only EG changes to FA. Then you can try to go to V or in the similar way to 6, but again, try to keep, or make, so theydont go in the same direction.


Second, 
Your violin solo, is very audible, i dont know why you say that solo instrument is not very audible. It is good, and you can hear it. What you can do, try putting it in the middle. Then is clear that is a melody and not just a violin on a left side. 

Third,
Dont give up that easily!  So much frustration lies ahead, but also so much joy and fun! 

Cheers! Ask questions if you have.
Regards,
Loki


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## Rob (Jun 10, 2020)

I think the problem is the writing, how you have structured the piece... to be honest it's too poorly conceived. Even with the best libraries it would always sound like this. There's a certain amount of skill needed to be able to compose, and I don't mean talent, but just knowing the tools, and how to use them.


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## José Herring (Jun 10, 2020)

roxstar said:


> Guys, here is my talente mess.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Too loud. Strings aren't that loud.

The solo violin patch isn't a good one. It's disconnected and too much vibrato and too synthetic sounding so it isn't going to blend well. Also, the line could be a bit better musically.

The stacc part is okay but the sustain strings don't match the dynamic or articulation. 

You are very focused on the harmonies which you shouldn't be the harmony is basic and isn't much of a problem. Not focused enough on the orchestration so you are trying to force things together that don't match intrinsically then worried that it doesn't match. It isn't going to match. 

So if you are married to those notes and those lines, you'll need to bring in more of the orchestra to make a true contrast


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## roxstar (Jun 10, 2020)

josejherring said:


> Too loud. Strings aren't that loud.
> 
> The solo violin patch isn't a good one. It's disconnected and too much vibrato and too synthetic sounding so it isn't going to blend well. Also, the line could be a bit better musically.
> 
> ...


Can you help me with matching sustains and staccato things?

The melody and other stuff is not that important, and I am forcing harmony due to practice, because this is the thing I know I do not know how to do, so I force it hardly to understand it.

Please if you dont mind to elaborate more into details and explain this more.
I just tried advice from above, I know what is parallel movement, I made new peogression, new melody, new staccato, sounds so-so, but once I add su stains, however I draw Dynamics on cc1 it wont blend and feels like it should not be there at all.








mess2 - Clyp


Listen to mess2 | Clyp is the easiest way to record, upload and share audio.




clyp.it





I will write nice piano melody with triads in minutes, adding accent pretty much fast too.
And when it comes to sustained harmony, I get lost to combine su stains and staccato.


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## José Herring (Jun 10, 2020)

roxstar said:


> Can you help me with matching sustains and staccato things?
> 
> The melody and other stuff is not that important, and I am forcing harmony due to practice, because this is the thing I know I do not know how to do, so I force it hardly to understand it.
> 
> ...


Sounds much better. 

Now you have to work on two things. First. The performance of the lead melody line. You have to ask yourself, how would real people play this. You are a piano player but you need to learn how to think like a string player or a singer to create a melody line that has movement and phrasing. It takes trail and error. Doing the same line over and over again with cc automation, slightly different articulations, musical breaks ect. You can also bring in a solo violin just underneath so that it is felt and not heard. This is just a sample orchestration trick. It gives the impression that it's a lead player and and a section. ect... But, that's on the advanced side. First just make your main string patch breath a little. Add bowings, phrasing, slight cresc is it goes up, slight decres as it goes down. These things real players fight but they also don't often fully overcome that natural tendency to play louder higher and softer lower in a line. Make the line sound musical to your ears.

Second, the sustained harmony lines, the pitches are fine, but they need to go with the movement of the melody better. That's just my opinion but holding goose eggs (whole notes) never really did me any good no matter how hard I tried to make it work. Put some harmonic lines and not just harmony.

Think to yourself, how can I make this more musical? Then do something until it sounds good.

Have played a lot of music before I ever began composing, the notes one picks is about 50% of the whole puzzle. A good enough performance can sell just about any combination of notes. Composers don't like to hear that because we fret over the notes like crazy, but it's true. With a little personality you can make anything work. So don't worry about notes and harmony too much. If those are the notes that work for you, add a little sizzle to make it work. Put some heart into the cold dead machines.

The below video is humorous but there's some truth to this in composing and performing music.


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## Living Fossil (Jun 10, 2020)

andrijatheloki said:


> So first of all, every new note is a new scale, because you are using parallel movement, so you are in C-major,you play I.st chord (C E G) , then you go paralel to II - (DFA) , afterwards you go to VI - or (ACE). Its a full parallel movement. Try adding V. - or (GHD) and then I, and second try to change voices ,( Chord) so they dont go into the same direction, for example, second chord, instead of using CEG-> DFA, try CEG-CFA - which is the second inversion of IV (FAC), So the C note stays, and only EG changes to FA. Then you can try to go to V or in the similar way to 6, but again, try to keep, or make, so theydont go in the same direction.



There is absolutely nothing wrong with parallel movement if it fits the piece.
In this case (version 1) it's a good thing, at least in the beginning before the melody enters.
Just because in some specific styles you avoid it, doesn't mean that it's a bad thing _per se_.
And adding some banal chords to make the impression that one has learned functional harmony, lessons 1 to 3, isn't a good idea either... 
In music, the idea is the chief and not the preconception of a specific stylistic vocabulary.

@roxstar :
As written, your version one isn't bad at all.
It doesn't sound as an exercise that mimics basic traditional voice leading, but there is nowhere a rule that one has to compose in the style of such exercises.
My advice is, stick to the first version, work on the balancing and on the instrumentation of the melody.


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## andrijatheloki (Jun 10, 2020)

Living Fossil said:


> There is absolutely nothing wrong with parallel movement if it fits the piece.
> In this case (version 1) it's a good thing, at least in the beginning before the melody enters.
> Just because in some specific styles you avoid it, doesn't mean that it's a bad thing _per se_.
> And adding some banal chords to make the impression that one has learned functional harmony, lessons 1 to 3, isn't a good idea either...
> ...



My advice was in general, regarding the possible improvement of the piece, because the piece can sound good with good instruments, but written poorly, won't get any better. Not that it sounds poor, this was an advice for him to improve, and get better score , also learn and improve. 

If you have better ideas, you can write it, but please don't show off here or attack someone that is trying to help in the most sincere way.  

And yes i do know harmony, i have studied it. Now i cant give advice to people? Mind your business.


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## Living Fossil (Jun 10, 2020)

@andrijatheloki :
No need for that [rude] remark about "mind your business". The reason of my post wasn't to "attack" you but rather to remind OP of not forgetting his original idea.
So, I wrote my post after i had the impression that some advice didn't had a good impact on OP's piece.
Before, it was simple but had a good core as an idea, later, it sounded as if somebody was trying to do something, which I call the Educating-Rita-syndrome.

This is a place where people exchange ideas, opinions, views.
If somebody disagrees, it's not a personal attack [against you], it's just a different view.
And in my view, the parallel movement in the beginning is a good thing. 
As i wrote, until the melody enters. From that point on, OP should overthink his voice leading.
And it's absolutely "my business" to state this opinion.
Ok?


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## andrijatheloki (Jun 10, 2020)

Living Fossil said:


> @andrijatheloki :
> No need for that [rude] remark about "mind your business". The reason of my post wasn't to "attack" you but rather to remind OP of not forgetting his original idea.
> So, I wrote my post after i had the impression that some advice didn't had a good impact on OP's piece.
> Before, it was simple but had a good core as an idea, later, it sounded as if somebody was trying to do something, which I call the Educating-Rita-syndrome.
> ...



Rude i found your comment and your attitude. As everyone else here wrote their opinions, everyone else here wrote as well ideas for improvement. My suggestion is not based on educating-rita-syndrome or whatever, it was based on the his words, asking help and suggestions '*like he is 5'.* Later mentioning him almost *quitting music*, was my intention not only to help him solve the problem, but to get *inspired *by music he created and with input and help from others.

This lesson would not only include him thinking about voice leading, but also about chord progression,making his melody to follow harmony, thus pushing him in a way to , rethink and see if there are other solutions for melody as well. Also perhaps get him interested into harmony, and theory, to even more improve general music knowledge, and later his work. 

If you can't seem to coprehend this message i tried to tell him, show him and teach, and see only some smallminded showoff, too bad for you. You won't get far with that attitude. Only by helping others and supporting others, cooperating and sharing knowledge and love to music and composing, you might get something in return. Otherwise you will rot in your own envy.

Good luck to you, i wish you all the best.


And @rockstar as i told you, you can always ask if you have any qustions.Could you also write which libraries are you using? thanks

Cheers!
Loki


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## Living Fossil (Jun 10, 2020)

andrijatheloki said:


> If you can't seem to coprehend this message i tried to tell him, show him and teach, and see only some smallminded showoff, too bad for you.



Loki, as stated before, my point was to confirm OP to be confident in his original idea, or to put it more precisely: the core of his original idea.
That's a very constructive and positive attitude indeed.
And if people learn to get a sense for the essence of their ideas, it will help them in developing.
You need to learn when to apply certain stylistic elements and you need to learn when to avoid them.
In the end, you should only follow your instinct.

Parallel movement is a very powerful tool in the right place. And harmonic simplicity is also one – in the right place. Adding more chords or a more elaborate voice leading in these places can destroy the core of a piece. That's what i stated.
The reason why my statement was rather direct is that in my life i've met lots of aspiring composers who lost their personality when they started to learn theory.
Learning theory is a great thing, but it may be destructive when it's applied in the wrong place.
There is music that relies on extremely complex structures and there is music that relies on simplicity.
There are pieces that rely on complicated harmonic structures and there is music that only needs 3 chords.
So, maybe try to see my post in the intended – constructive – way and not as an offense against you.
Or, to put it in more friendly words: Peace!


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## andrijatheloki (Jun 11, 2020)

Living Fossil said:


> Loki, as stated before, my point was to confirm OP to be confident in his original idea, or to put it more precisely: the core of his original idea.
> That's a very constructive and positive attitude indeed.
> And if people learn to get a sense for the essence of their ideas, it will help them in developing.
> You need to learn when to apply certain stylistic elements and you need to learn when to avoid them.
> ...



I agree with you, and i have seen the same, people getting limited solely to the harmonic rules, or vice-versa. But you,nor I never know what is best for him, or anyone else. On one side, it can limit somebody to only use harmonic rules, and stay never go further , more creative, experimental, but on the other hand it can help someone to make chords and melodies, and instruments fitting together with beautiful 7th chords. My response to his It sounds like every new note is a new scale,




roxstar said:


> It sounds like every new note is a new scale, great result.
> I could not get worse if I wanted and I have no idea where is my problem.




Is exactly why i suggested not to use parallel movement, because it does feel like that in this case. The melody also follows that movement, creating this feeling. He wanted to improve, i suggested. 


Anyhow we agree on some points! 


I have few jazz friends. Try telling them that there is more music then jazz, and that jazz is not the only good genre in music..So yeah, its exactly that limitation to one approach.



Cheers!
Loki


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