# Hollywood orchestra opus edition and hollywood orchestrator



## Hanu_H

Coming Fall 2020

HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRA OPUS EDITION and HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRATOR

Over 230 Gigabytes of pristine new recordings. Powerful new features. A separate Orchestrator that will assist you in creating award-winning compositions within seconds, and much more!

What you guys think about this?


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## Piotrek K.

Fall? This hype train better have a lot of cars ;D

I'm interested nonetheless.


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## J-M

Hey, if they fix the woodwinds then I'm all for it...


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## Eptesicus

So is it all new then?


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## Kubler

I'm curious to see what it has to offer. As difficult to use and unergonomic as Hollywood Orchestra is, it's pretty exhaustive already. In any case, I hope there's upgrade paths available for current owners of the whole collection.


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## Eptesicus

Kubler said:


> I'm curious to see what it has to offer. As difficult to use and unergonomic as Hollywood Orchestra is, it's pretty exhaustive already. In any case, I hope there's upgrade paths available for current owners of the whole collection.



This.

HWO sounds very good, but its just a slog to use compared to kontakt/SINE/Synchron stuff. That's why I've mostly resigned it to barely any use now.

Like the ease of use of Cinematic studio stuff, JXL brass is in a different league in my opinion.


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## Zero&One

gst98 said:


> Wow, I honestly thought something like this would never happen with the subscription plan in place. That is, assuming the its included.



They said it is on FB


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## Kubler

Eptesicus said:


> This.
> 
> HWO sounds very good, but its just a slog to use compared to kontakt/SINE/Synchron stuff. That's why I've mostly resigned it to barely any use now.
> 
> Like the ease of use of Cinematic studio stuff, JXL brass is in a different league in my opinion.



It's sad to say, but I sort of regret buying HO back in 2014. As helpful as it was for a couple of years, the library architecture choices they made just didn't hold up against newer Kontakt products. I like being able to build an orchestra section without having to load six Play instances of separate articulations, and also being able to chose those articulations without a cheat sheet of the patch names' suffixes and the CC's they use. What a nightmare. The mere memory of it makes me pretty sure I won't consider upgrading to this new "Opus Edition" unless it is absolutely stellar :-|


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## AndyP

I hope an upgrade is not more expensive than the normal price.
If EW has listened well to its users and they have fulfilled most of our most important wishes, this could be a real blast.

If it's what I'm hoping for, I'll drink a Dujardin on it.
And will buy it.


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## Eptesicus

Kubler said:


> It's sad to say, but I sort of regret buying HO back in 2014. As helpful as it was for a couple of years, the library architecture choices they made just didn't hold up against newer Kontakt products. I like being able to build an orchestra section without having to load six Play instances of separate articulations, and also being able to chose those articulations without a cheat sheet of the patch names' suffixes and the CC's they use. What a nightmare. The mere memory of it makes me pretty sure I won't consider upgrading to this new "Opus Edition" unless it is absolutely stellar :-|




Yep,same. I mean i did get a lot of use out of it, but now i have libraries that sounds just as good, if not better, and that are many times easier to work with. Every time i look at it and through all the patches my mind starts to switch off. Give me one patch and a consistent bank of keyswitches any day over that.

If this new edition completely revamps how it operates and has a good upgrade price, i may be tempted.


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## Kubler

Eptesicus said:


> Yep,same. I mean i did get a lot of use out of it, but now i have libraries that sounds just as good, if not better, and that are many times easier to work with. Every time i look at it and through all the patches my mind starts to switch off. Give me one patch and a consistent bank of keyswitches any day over that.
> 
> If this new edition completely revamps how it operates and has a good upgrade price, i may be tempted.


All of this, couldn't have said it better


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## J-M

AndyP said:


> I hope an upgrade is not more expensive than the normal price.
> If EW has listened well to its users and they have fulfilled most of our most important wishes, this could be a real blast.
> 
> If it's what I'm hoping for, I'll drink a Dujardin on it.
> And will buy it.



EW doesn't have a good history with upgrade prices...remember Spaces II? I do not have any difficulties with the patch names and the like, but if they were to make the workflow more modern=easier and reduce the RAM usage then that would be awesome.


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## Technostica

All aboard the Hype Train:


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## Jdiggity1

I wonder if it's all about to change


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## Fleer

Yep. Changing my game.


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## bnsrowe

Eptesicus said:


> Yep,same. I mean i did get a lot of use out of it, but now i have libraries that sounds just as good, if not better, and that are many times easier to work with. Every time i look at it and through all the patches my mind starts to switch off. Give me one patch and a consistent bank of keyswitches any day over that.
> 
> If this new edition completely revamps how it operates and has a good upgrade price, i may be tempted.



This!! Digging through patch after patch playing with mic positions....


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## hag01

I really hope we are going to get new woodwinds, which are at the same standard as the Hollywood strings, brass and percussions.


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## sIR dORT

Kubler said:


> I hope there's upgrade paths available for current owners of the whole collection.


+1. I understand the point that it's hard to work with, but man if this ends up being affordable and offers new features, new sounds (would love flautandos for every section), and a better/more intuitive workflow, count me in.


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## cqd

Since I got diamond I think the woodwinds rock..I prefer them to cinewinds, or vsl se..
I am really hoping they dont f*ck us over on the upgrade pricing..
But I am properly hyped for this..


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## Geocranium

I'm hoping there's more backend programming and workflow changes than just simply new recordings. Most would agree that the Hollywood Orchestra sounds great. They're great instruments recorded in a great space. 

The biggest gripe people have, and largely the reason I don't really use them anymore, is they feel extremely awkward and cumbersome to use. All the recorded material is already there, they just need to rework how the user is interacting with the instruments to be smoother. For example, there are SO many patches in Hollywood Strings, and I don't have a clue what differentiates most of them.


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## OleJoergensen

It is very interesting! I hope for String legato that match the other developers legato.


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## bryla

So now the orchestrator helps you compose? :D


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## Shad0wLandsUK

MrLinssi said:


> Hey, if they fix the woodwinds then I'm all for it...


This was precicely my thinking!!


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## Shad0wLandsUK

Maybe this will come with PLAY Pro 
Or maybe in all seriousness it will...


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## DS_Joost

Megaton!

Your move, Spitfire...😉


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## JEPA

any sounds yet?


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## John R Wilson

This is pretty exciting news. 230 GB of new recordings for the Hollywood orchestra and possibly a revamped player!! Can't wait to hear more on this one.


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## Heartii

Upgrade path confirmed


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## Jeremy Spencer

Jeez, I must be among the elite. I never understood why so many think EW orchestral libraries are so cumbersome and frustrating. I personally love the workflow, and EW libs are still my primary go-to’s. I’ll take Play over Kontakt any day.
Looking forward to Opus!


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## José Herring

Color me optimistic.


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## Zedcars

Are we calling it HOOE?

(One of these days an abbreviated library is going to accidentally spell a rude word...  Can’t wait until Super Hollywood Insane Tambourines comes out.)


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## jneebz

Hmm, the “orchestrator” idea could be glorious for lazy bums like me who could use a way to quickly do more standard layerings....


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## aaronnt1

hag01 said:


> I really hope we are going to get new woodwinds, which are at the same standard as the Hollywood strings, brass and percussions.


Although HW Percussion has great timpani and snares, I found it a hugely disappointing library, the mainstays like the Celeste, marimba, vibes, glock and xylophone I thought were very bad, lacking resonance, fullness of sound and a complete lack of different mallets, resonator on/off etc...what should have been a comprehensive follow on from the excellent previous Hollywood entries ended up feeling very rushed through. A 4 octave thin sounding Celeste doesn't really cut it in a premium library when most other librarys are a full 5 octaves, even their own one from the previous Symphony orchestra.

If this new plus library rights those wrongs and improves some of the flaws in the Woodwinds, I'd be extremely tempted to go for this.


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## ridgero

Yet another game changer?


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## AndyP

I don't find Hollywood Orchestra really more complicated to use than other libraries.
I use relatively rarely or few keyswitches, I prefer to work with my own tracks for articulations. 

There are very well programmed patches in Hollywood Orchestra like the Strings shorts which change from staccatissimo to staccato or marcato using the modwheel. With these patches I regularly get better results than with other libraries where the transition can only be achieved by velocity. HO is much more smooth.

Basically everything is there what you need, I would like to have some more configurable features in play to be able to define controllers by myself. This is sometimes a bit tricky like cc22 (I think it was cc22) for polyphonic legato. Don't have my cheat sheet here right now.

The large number of patches makes it a bit tricky to use because the differences are sometimes marginal or you need a good memory to remember the differences between the patches. 

I would like to see more performance patches that combine articulations to improve the direct playability.

I'm also curious about the Orchestrator, sounds like a kind of ostinato tool to me.
Better Woodwinds, definitely with pleasure. Apart from that, I have little to complain about, except that the resource requirements of the diamond version are quite reasonable.

Soundwise still a real pleasure.


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## AndyP

MrLinssi said:


> EW doesn't have a good history with upgrade prices...remember Spaces II? I do not have any difficulties with the patch names and the like, but if they were to make the workflow more modern=easier and reduce the RAM usage then that would be awesome.


The upgrade prices were partly incomprehensible, this is true. I think once a year they were reasonable and justifiable.


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## Chungus

>coming in fall

Looks like they're trying to one-up Spitfire in the excessively early announcements department. lol

Still, it has my interest. I'll join in on hoping for modernized handling. And maybe the same could be done for SO. That would be swell, I'd say.


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## pmcrockett

I would pay cash money for a version of Play that could do on-demand loading from a purged state like Kontakt can.



Zedcars said:


> Are we calling it HOOE?
> 
> (One of these days an abbreviated library is going to accidentally spell a rude word...  Can’t wait until Super Hollywood Insane Tambourines comes out.)


Spitfire's Alternative Solo Strings has you covered.


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## MauroPantin

I already love HO. Purge option in Play Engine, and more consistent CC assignment in the patches and articulation structure for instruments would be lovely, though. Looking forward to it!


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## Pablocrespo

I hope the upgrade path is decent unlike spaces, and that it doesn´t have CPU issues like SD3 

(support found that some pitch shifting behind the scenes was the culprit and then stopped responding to my mails, classic EW)


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## SlHarder

This would certainly add some zing for a ComposerCloud subscriber.


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## janila

The name makes no sense whatsoever.


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## platixzhang

I was quite worried about this product indeed...
Though I am an old HO user but this makes me excited yet uneasy. Plz have more info please
All in all, the orchestrator can be a sequencer or a time-sync phrase product like Vivace or something else. However, when they announced "Opus Edition", I can hardly get what exactly they are going to do...
What if they are both symphobia-like products? I'd be disappointed.


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## RonOrchComp

I will second the question asked on p1

Are these new recordings? Or are they doing what OT did with Inspire (or similar)?

edit

*Over 230 Gigabytes of pristine new recordings. *

Hmmm. Doug said a while back he was done with orchestral recordings.


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## José Herring

RonOrchComp said:


> I will second the question asked on p1
> 
> Are these new recordings? Or are they doing what OT did with Inspire (or similar)?
> 
> edit
> 
> *Over 230 Gigabytes of pristine new recordings. *
> 
> Hmmm. Doug said a while back he was done with orchestral recordings.


Yes he did. Back in the day when they were having a spat. Not sure if the spat was resolved but I'm glad to see them back to the orchestral game! I was getting tired of the retro 90's pop brass releases.

On the other hand, there seems to be no TJ involvement in this one and I think that TJ's sampling methods tremendously helped HO break away from the mistakes of EWQLSO. My hope is that they don't go back to normalized samples with lots of noise reduction now that he isn't involved. Hopefully they create that HOOE in the same tradition as HO.


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## dcoscina

This came out of left field but it’s a nice surprise. Hope it sounds amazing!


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## Robo Rivard

Is this a new, totally different product, or they just add stuff to the original Hollywood package with improved programing?


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## SimonCharlesHanna

Better musicians too, i imagine?


AMIRITE?


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## Jeremy Spencer

pmcrockett said:


> I would pay cash money for a version of Play that could do on-demand loading from a purged state like Kontakt can.



You could just use the disabled track features in Logic and Cubase, works like a charm.


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## purple

I hope it's in the composer cloud, otherwise I doubt it will be worth whatever the cost is, to be honest. I will be interested to hear the demos when they arrive, though.


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## Laptoprabbit

josejherring said:


> Yes he did. Back in the day when they were having a spat. Not sure if the spat was resolved but I'm glad to see them back to the orchestral game! I was getting tired of the retro 90's pop brass releases.
> 
> On the other hand, there seems to be no TJ involvement in this one and I think that TJ's sampling methods tremendously helped HO break away from the mistakes of EWQLSO. My hope is that they don't go back to normalized samples with lots of noise reduction now that he isn't involved. Hopefully they create that HOOE in the same tradition as HO.


What happens to the sound when the samples are treated this way?


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## José Herring

Laptoprabbit said:


> What happens to the sound when the samples are treated this way?


A few things. First, it destroys the natural dynamic of the instruments. Then it raises the noise floor because when you raise the softer samples you also raise the level of the noise in the room, mics, preamps, ect... 

So then you have to clean up the noise with noise reduction software which then needs to be over done which degrades the sound more. And then you have to artificially balance the samples again by lowering them in volume so that you have some sort of dynamic range in them again. By that time things are so screwed up dynamically you have no chance of balancing them overall in an orchestration.

If you still have the older NI version of EWQLSO and you take off all the programming at the sample level you will see that this is the method they employed for that library. Makes absolutely no sense and I can't imagine why it was done.

When they did HO they tried to keep the natural balance of the instruments as much as possible and I find that orchestra responds very nicely to dynamics. Also, the guys at Spitfire say they don't normalize samples either.


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## Mucusman

purple said:


> I hope it's in the composer cloud


Yes, EastWest has stated this many times in their Facebook post to repeated questions as to whether it will be included in Composer Cloud.


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## DS_Joost

Seriously though, I was due for a new full orchestral library this year to replace the Hollywood Orchestra (noy because of sound but because I wanted something easier to work with). 

Guess who is really frickin' curious now?

A couple of things that would take this library and infuse new life into it:

-Customizable keyswitches and preferably articulation switching via CC (much better than keyswitches imho)
-Woodwind sections would be really cool
-Modwheel controllable rolls for percussion
-Smoother legato in some cases (legato can be too rigid)
-Easier to play custom run patches
-Customizable CC assignments (let me choose when to use CC1, 11, 2 or whatever. Don't break this up in different sounding or reacting patches, let me choose).


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## hag01

sIR dORT said:


> +1. I understand the point that it's hard to work with, but man if this ends up being affordable and offers new features, new sounds (would love flautandos for every section), and a better/more intuitive workflow, count me in.


As an owner of Hollywood Orchestra Diamond, including East West original USB drive, I really hope there will be an upgrade path.


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## hag01

aaronnt1 said:


> Although HW Percussion has great timpani and snares, I found it a hugely disappointing library, the mainstays like the Celeste, marimba, vibes, glock and xylophone I thought were very bad, lacking resonance, fullness of sound and a complete lack of different mallets, resonator on/off etc...what should have been a comprehensive follow on from the excellent previous Hollywood entries ended up feeling very rushed through. A 4 octave thin sounding Celeste doesn't really cut it in a premium library when most other librarys are a full 5 octaves, even their own one from the previous Symphony orchestra.
> 
> If this new plus library rights those wrongs and improves some of the flaws in the Woodwinds, I'd be extremely tempted to go for this.


No doubt there are other things that can be improved except the woodwinds, I'm full of expectations.


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## Heartii

I think they have edited existing samples and recorded new stuff.


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## cqd

I'm psyched..


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## Geomir

I would start with the basics. I.e. it would be nice if most of the 1st violins slur legato patches were not out of tempo, struggling to follow the pace of even the most simple-to-play mid-tempo legato passage of 10-20 notes! This doesn't happen to even the cheapest of libraries, and they haven't fix it 10 years now! I love EW Composer Cloud and EW support, but this drives me insane!

I really believe there will be an upgrade path, that's why they kept the name Hollywood Orchestra! If it was a completely new different product, why not find another new brand name to create even more hype?

Better late than never, it was about time to see a big overhaul full of improvements, features, balancing, user-friendliness, key-switching, extra recordings etc. of Hollywood Orchestra! This library sounds so nice (other than the woodwinds) that it deserves the best care of EW sound engineers!

About the extra recordings, I am not sure they will remake the woodwinds, I think it's too much, and it's like admitting that they are bad! It's like upgrading only the one fourth of the product, it would be a little weird to do it like that. I would suspect a solo viola, double bass, and maybe a Hollywood Grand Piano.


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## purple

I hope they recorded new tenor trombones! The ones in HO are so anemic I almost always used cimbassos instead when I was only using HO, but cimbassos don't go anywhere near as high (nor would I want to hear their attempts to)

The tuba is also very poor. The tone and scripting are okay, but some of the samples are just horrible takes with dropouts and bad intonation and inconsistent dynamics.

Other than that, the woodwinds could use a lot of work in general. Hope they are overhauling the legato especially there.

I don't have a lot of complaints about the strings, they sound pretty good for the most part and remain popular for a reason.


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## Peter Wayne

Very interested in knowing more details. Lets just hope it's a lot more playable than HO.


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## SimonCharlesHanna

purple said:


> I don't have a lot of complaints about the strings, they sound pretty good for the most part and remain popular for a reason.


Wouldn't mind some (more) sordinos, tasto, ponti, harmonics, reps, dynamic swells etc. 

And some non close mic'd divisi


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## purple

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Wouldn't mind some (more) sordinos, tasto, ponti, harmonics, reps, dynamic swells etc.
> 
> And some non close mic'd divisi


That would indeed be nice. Would especially love some nice finger tremolos.


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## Fa

They were great producers some time ago. Today they are just Marketing gurus. 

It seems Spitfire is doing the same, moving from quality to pure sensational advertising. So sad companies follow this path... (VSL is on the way... I hope not too fast and not so badly...).

All the last things I buy were excellent on paper, and disappointing in real life (HW Orchestra, HW Choirs, Play 6...).

I'm very sceptical: if the orchestrator will be like the word-builder, well... perfect concept, never working.

If they spent a fraction of the marketing investment to pay some good developers and make Play working the way customers ask for years (solid and consistent patch organization, flexible and customizable parameters and controllers, stable and reliable platform... just to mention the basic hygen factors), they would probably be back dominating the market.

But you know... it seems delegating to some agency nice campaigns and nice visuals is easier... LOL

Let's see: they are good recording and inventing products, including the Cloud, that is a fantastic and fair business model in my opinion. Crossing fingers, I will be happy if they will improve.


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## novaburst

platixzhang said:


> I was quite worried about this product indeed...
> Though I am an old HO user but this makes me excited yet uneasy. Plz have more info please
> All in all, the orchestrator can be a sequencer or a time-sync phrase product like Vivace or something else. However, when they announced "Opus Edition", I can hardly get what exactly they are going to do...
> What if they are both symphobia-like products? I'd be disappointed.



This is more than likely the case with perhaps some normal samples bundled with it, if it is more about a sequence then there may be another player in the works. 

All looks interesting.


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## sIR dORT

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> And some non close mic'd divisi


+1000000


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## Eptesicus

purple said:


> I hope they recorded new tenor trombones! The ones in HO are so anemic I almost always used cimbassos instead when I was only using HO, but cimbassos don't go anywhere near as high (nor would I want to hear their attempts to)
> 
> The tuba is also very poor. The tone and scripting are okay, but some of the samples are just horrible takes with dropouts and bad intonation and inconsistent dynamics.
> 
> Other than that, the woodwinds could use a lot of work in general. Hope they are overhauling the legato especially there.
> 
> I don't have a lot of complaints about the strings, they sound pretty good for the most part and remain popular for a reason.



Agreed. HB trombones and tuba are not good. Hated them. The trumpets are very good and the horns are not bad either.

Woodwinds need a LOT of work

Strings are good but like the whole library, they need a usability overhaul.

Percussion is pretty good.


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## nolotrippen

Any upgrade path for loyal (and nearly dead) EWSO Gold owners?


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## Ashermusic

sIR dORT said:


> +1. I understand the point that it's hard to work with, but man if this ends up being affordable and offers new features, new sounds (would love flautandos for every section), and a better/more intuitive workflow, count me in.



To me, this is a myth. It isn’t hard to work with IF you are a player rather than a step enterer, once you know the patches that work best for you and use an articulation switcher.

I can’t tell you how many times I start with something else and then end up switching back to HO.


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## Ashermusic

josejherring said:


> Yes he did. Back in the day when they were having a spat. Not sure if the spat was resolved but I'm glad to see them back to the orchestral game! I was getting tired of the retro 90's pop brass releases.
> 
> On the other hand, there seems to be no TJ involvement in this one and I think that TJ's sampling methods tremendously helped HO break away from the mistakes of EWQLSO. My hope is that they don't go back to normalized samples with lots of noise reduction now that he isn't involved. Hopefully they create that HOOE in the same tradition as HO.



TJ has not been involved since the brass. I am sure that it will sound more like HO than EWQLSO.


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## Kubler

Ashermusic said:


> To me, this is a myth. It isn’t hard to work with IF you are a player rather than a step enterer, once you know the patches that work best for you and use an articulation switcher.
> 
> I can’t tell you how many times I start with something else and then end up switching back to HO.


How hard it is to get to know the "patches that work best for you" is the point, though, when you can't tell one obscure-named patch from another. Also, aren't keyswitches supposed to be literal built-in articulation switchers ?


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## Ashermusic

Kubler said:


> How hard it is to get to know the "patches that work best for you" is the point, though, when you can't tell an obscure-named patch from another. Also, aren't keyswitches supposed to be literal built-in articulation switchers ?



Not _that_ hard. Spend a week with it. Clearly, pre-configured keyswitches were not a focus of HO and the ones that exist don't give you the full included patch.

It is not admittedly an' "instant gratification" library. It was tool developed by a couple of seriously good composers for those who also aspired to be seriously good composers.


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## cqd

In fairness.. there's keyswitch patches for basic patches for everything there.. I've three tracks for each string section, two for the brass, one for the winds..It's not ideal, but it isn't really that difficult to figure out either..It will be no harm to clean them up a bit though..
The orchestrator has me intrigued.. probably some 'the orchestra' like thingy..


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## sIR dORT

Ashermusic said:


> To me, this is a myth. It isn’t hard to work with IF you are a player rather than a step enterer, once you know the patches that work best for you and use an articulation switcher.
> 
> I can’t tell you how many times I start with something else and then end up switching back to HO.


I personally don't find it that hard to navigate, but my point was that I think the organization of the patches could be more intuitive and/or clearly labeled. I'd like to think I'm a fairly skilled to skilled pianist, and since HO is the only full-fledged orchestral library that I've ever owned, I know it well, including the different patches. I think that most of them serve a legit purpose and if spend time and go through them, they aren't too difficult to navigate. But again, I think there are patches that could be more clearly labeled, condensed, or removed without hindering the sound/usefulness of the library.


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## Ashermusic

sIR dORT said:


> I personally don't find it that hard to navigate, but my point was that I think the organization of the patches could be more intuitive and/or clearly labeled. I'd like to think I'm a fairly skilled to skilled pianist, and since HO is the only full-fledged orchestral library that I've ever owned, I know it well, including the different patches. I think that most of them serve a legit purpose and if spend time and go through them, they aren't too difficult to navigate. But again, I think there are patches that could be more clearly labeled, condensed, or removed without hindering the sound/usefulness of the library.



I don’t disagree.


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## Kubler

Ashermusic said:


> Clearly, pre-configured keyswitches were not a focus of HO


But they should have been. Virtual instruments technology improvement over the years has made ergonomy just as important as sample quality, and I just don't see how to objectively deem HO a more ergonomic library than just about any other orchestral library release since 2014.

Optimizing the number of MIDI tracks, customizing keyswitches, customizing controllers, customizing the articulation batch within one patch and much more… those are all things that help blend a library within a preexisting system / template and ease the workflow, things that the vast majority of libraries can do those days while being largely able to compete with HO on a sound quality and programming ground.

I'm not trying to disregard that you and others have found your own workflow suited for it, but when a library fall short of that much functionalities that became standard in the industry in the span of a few years, that's a flaw and a legitimate reason to give up on the library to move on to ones that are indeed easier to use, not a myth.



Ashermusic said:


> It was tool developed by a couple of seriously good composers for those who also aspired to be seriously good composers.


I don't doubt that EW's guys are seriously good composers, as their users – me included – aspire to be, but I fail to see how this is relevant. Mastering a technologically obsolete library is proof of being tech savvy and persistent, that's all.



Ashermusic said:


> Spend a week with it.


Spent years ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Heartii

East west has actually explored the entire catalogue of sampling, from orchestra to Back up singer. Market has evolved a lot since HO release, it's time to update the existing catalogue which is fine. Spitfire need to take example.


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## Ashermusic

If you spent years and could make it work, sorry, but that is on you, not the libraries. For several years I helped people build HO VE Pro and Logic templates and almost all were happy.


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## DS_Joost

Heartii said:


> East west has actually explored the entire catalogue of sampling, from orchestra to Back up singer. Market has evolved a lot since HO release, it's time to update the existing catalogue which is fine. Spitfire need to take example.



Seconded. Instead of announcing that everything will change six times a year, how about supporting and updating things that are already there? It's not like people don't want to pay...


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## DS_Joost

Ashermusic said:


> If you spent years and could make it work, sorry, but that is on you, not the libraries. For several years I helped people build HO VE Pro and Logic templates and almost all were happy.



I don't use templates. I've used it for years though and know the folder structure like the back of my hand. Still, wouldn't mind customizable keyswitches and preferably switching via CC. That way, I can create my own patches with just the articulations I like (like an essentials patch, but one of my choosing) and loading them in any DAW of my choosing.

I don't need a library to hold my hands. I don't need a second "The Orchestra" (nothing against it), I'd love customizability.

My primary DAW, Reason (don't ask) doesn't support articulation switching or mapping. My secondary DAW, Studio One, doesn't yet either. Only two really do natively. And I don't want to learn another one. This would solve it for me, and I guess a host of others.

Plus a percussion library without modwheel controllable swells (at least for the essentials) is instantly no buy for me these days. Rhapsody Orchestral Percussion has spoiled me on that.

The reason I would love this is because the Hollywood Percussion sounds better, imo.


----------



## Kubler

Ashermusic said:


> If you spent years and could make it work, sorry, but that is on you, not the libraries. For several years I helped people build HO VE Pro and Logic templates and almost all were happy.


You're mischaracterizing what I wrote. I don't remember saying that I couldn't make it work. I produced several albums with HO. I said that making it work required an amount of time and upstream thinking that the generalization of certain advancements harnessed by similar, if not better-sounding libraries made useless. And that this was the reason why HO aged badly, making peple tend to turn away from it.


----------



## Ashermusic

Kubler said:


> You're mischaracterizing what I wrote. I don't remember saying that I couldn't make it work. I produced several albums with HO. I said that making it work required an amount of time and upstream thinking that the generalization of certain advancements harnessed by similar, if not better-sounding libraries made useless. And that this was the reason why HO aged badly, making peple tend to turn away from it.




Then I guess the only place where we differ is "better sounding libraries." I have heard _different_ sounding libraries but none that I deem _better_ sounding.

And btw, as you see in this thread, a _bunch_ of people have not turned away from it.


----------



## JohnG

If anything, the Hollywood series was perhaps overly ambitious. So many articulations, such a lot to work through and familiarise oneself with. And possibly they made some decisions that, with hindsight, could have been predicted to cause a bit of head scratching, such as two different implementations of mod-wheel control for vibrato.

*Too Much to Digest?*

I remember feeling as though it would take a month to sort through Hollywood Strings when I bought it (about a half hour after its release). It actually took maybe two months! But the sound was lovely and I immediately (was on a movie then) replaced a lot of the strings with Hollywood. At the time of release, about 10 years ago, I don't think there were too many libraries with an articulation list that was nearly as ambitious. Maybe VSL? But VSL sounds completely different.

Compared with the complexity of other very ambitious libraries today, Hollywood is no longer an outlier. Moreover, many of the major sample libraries now have their own, non-Kontakt players, so that also has become more mainstream.

*Can They Surpass Themselves?*

I'm surprised and intrigued, actually, at the idea of EW revisiting the orchestra. Their Hollywood series sounds good to me, but of course they've had a decade to absorb customer requests / complaints and, of course, there's always room for improvement. One plus is the player; it's been a very long time since PLAY caused any trouble that I've seen.

I guess we'll see.

[note: I have received free products from East West]


----------



## AndyP

Ashermusic said:


> And btw, as you see in this thread, a _bunch_ of people have not turned away from it.


Because, or just because HO has a certain age, it proves that age is not an attribute in relation to a good sound.
When I think about how many new libraries I own now, and how often I go back to HO, I know that I could have saved a lot of money by not buying some of these new libraries.
HO has never disappointed me, even if there are weaknesses. New, marketing hyped libraries did.

But that's my fault!


----------



## Noeticus

When does East West release more info on this?


----------



## José Herring

Noeticus said:


> When does East West release more info on this?


As with Play pro, it will be coming Soooooon.....


----------



## José Herring

DS_Joost said:


> My primary DAW, Reason (don't ask) doesn't support articulation switching or mapping.


Say it bold, say it loud, I'm a Reason user and I'm proud.


----------



## John R Wilson

Ashermusic said:


> To me, this is a myth. It isn’t hard to work with IF you are a player rather than a step enterer, once you know the patches that work best for you and use an articulation switcher.
> 
> I can’t tell you how many times I start with something else and then end up switching back to HO.



I agree with this. It just has a little bit more of a learning curve to understand the patch names and once you get it all set up to switch articulations then i find it just as useable as many other libaries.


----------



## Eptesicus

AndyP said:


> Because, or just because HO has a certain age, it proves that age is not an attribute in relation to a good sound.
> When I think about how many new libraries I own now, and how often I go back to HO, I know that I could have saved a lot of money by not buying some of these new libraries.
> HO has never disappointed me, even if there are weaknesses. New, marketing hyped libraries did.
> 
> But that's my fault!



I don't regret it because newer libraries are just much nicer to use.

I used it for years and still hate using the play engine (I still use it for the orchestral percussion as I dont have anything else yet).

If it works for some thats great, but something like CSS where everything is in one patch with consistent keyswitches whilst still sounding just as good, if not better, is simply a better library to work with in my opinion.


----------



## cqd

I really dont get why people hate play..like, it was unstable a few years ago, but it just works now..
Navigation is probably quicker than scrolling down through the kontakt libraries too..


----------



## AndyP

Eptesicus said:


> I don't regret it because newer libraries are just much nicer to use.
> 
> I used it for years and still hate using the play engine (I still use it for the orchestral percussion as I dont have anything else yet).
> 
> If it works for some thats great, but something like CSS where everything is in one patch with consistent keyswitches whilst still sounding just as good, if not better, is simply a better library to work with in my opinion.


All right, I'm referring to two specific cases. BBCSO and my OT libraries. I don't like the new SA Player, have constantly changing and existing problems with it. And with OT I do not get warm from the sound. I think I am one of the few who do not like the Teldex sound.
I think I'm more of an LSCS, VSL guy, and HO.


----------



## I like music

I bought a lot of libraries to replace the HWO that I own. However, there's a certain zing and clarity to those strings that just cannot be ignored, and I keep finding that I dig them out every few months and load them up. Honestly, had I more RAM (much more RAM) I'd load these back up permanently (*a purge function like Kontakt would do the trick)*

In certain contexts, I'd say it is as good a sound as will ever be sampled.


----------



## Fa

cqd said:


> I really dont get why people hate play..like, it was unstable a few years ago, but it just works now..
> Navigation is probably quicker than scrolling down through the kontakt libraries too..



Because you can't customize your controllers, and because of the arbitrary decision of using multi channel single articulation instances, instead of free patch selection (e.g. KS etc.). 

Last but not least, if you use Choirs, because WB has never been really fixed at all.

Anyway... everybody has personal opinions, workflow, habits, taste... but when lot of people hate something, usually something is wrong with it


----------



## Mystic

josejherring said:


> As with Play pro, it will be coming Soooooon.....


I was about to say, I wonder how delayed it will be. 

I do enjoy using Play more than I like Kontakt. I still use HO daily though it's really showing it's age as of the past few years. The way these libraries work really needs to be restructured so I hope that was one of the main focuses along with some updates to the sound. Especially HOW.


----------



## jamieboo

Don't know if this is new info, but this press release was just quoted on EW's FB page...

HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRA OPUS EDITION and HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRATOR
This newly recorded expansion of the acclaimed Hollywood Orchestra will boast over 230 Gigabytes of pristine new recordings and powerful new features sound engineered by Shawn Murphy (2019 GRAMMY winner "Best Engineered Album, Classical", ACADEMY AWARD, C.A.S. (Cinema Audio Society), BAFTA, and EMMY award-winning sound engineer). Producers Doug Rogers and Nick Phoenix have also reworked the original content of Hollywood Orchestra (which is required along with the expansion) so the whole collection has a cohesive sound and an easier workflow. Along with Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition EastWest will release its companion product Hollywood Orchestrator, which will assist in creating award-winning compositions within seconds, and much more!
“Hollywood Orchestra is extremely popular with over a half a million users”, said producer Doug Rogers; “Since the release of Hollywood Orchestra, which was created over a 5 year period, we have received a wish list from users and feel we have included most of these requests, and many of our own, in the Opus Edition. The Orchestrator uses multi-samples (not loops) to automate compositions, saving the composer a lot of time, it’s very exciting!”
There will be an upgrade path for existing users of Hollywood Orchestra. The Opus Edition and Orchestrator will be included in EastWest’s multiple award-winning subscription service ComposerCloud, and both will be available for purchase.


----------



## José Herring

jamieboo said:


> Don't know if this is new info, but this press release was just quoted on EW's FB page...
> 
> HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRA OPUS EDITION and HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRATOR
> This newly recorded expansion of the acclaimed Hollywood Orchestra will boast over 230 Gigabytes of pristine new recordings and powerful new features sound engineered by Shawn Murphy (2019 GRAMMY winner "Best Engineered Album, Classical", ACADEMY AWARD, C.A.S. (Cinema Audio Society), BAFTA, and EMMY award-winning sound engineer). Producers Doug Rogers and Nick Phoenix have also reworked the original content of Hollywood Orchestra (which is required along with the expansion) so the whole collection has a cohesive sound and an easier workflow. Along with Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition EastWest will release its companion product Hollywood Orchestrator, which will assist in creating award-winning compositions within seconds, and much more!
> “Hollywood Orchestra is extremely popular with over a half a million users”, said producer Doug Rogers; “Since the release of Hollywood Orchestra, which was created over a 5 year period, we have received a wish list from users and feel we have included most of these requests, and many of our own, in the Opus Edition. The Orchestrator uses multi-samples (not loops) to automate compositions, saving the composer a lot of time, it’s very exciting!”
> There will be an upgrade path for existing users of Hollywood Orchestra. The Opus Edition and Orchestrator will be included in EastWest’s multiple award-winning subscription service ComposerCloud, and both will be available for purchase.


Yes!!!!! Time to upgrade to Diamond because this is going to be good.


----------



## cqd

josejherring said:


> Yes!!!!! Time to upgrade to Diamond because this is going to be good.



Diamond is definitely absolutely worth it anyway..


----------



## José Herring

cqd said:


> Diamond is definitely absolutely worth it anyway..


Yeah I know. I just never built a computer to run it. So I've stuck with Gold for now. But, I'm going to build a computer just for Hollywood Orchestra. Maybe 2 computers to get ready for the expansion.


----------



## dpasdernick

Hollywood Orchestra is the cat's pajamas. This proves it...

"Soaring Over Hollywood" by Thomas Bergersen 

- fucking brilliant


----------



## José Herring

dpasdernick said:


> Hollywood Orchestra is the cat's pajamas. This proves it...
> 
> "Soaring Over Hollywood" by Thomas Bergersen
> 
> - fucking brilliant


That string sound on that piece is glorious.


----------



## Dex

Ashermusic said:


> To me, this is a myth. It isn’t hard to work with IF you are a player rather than a step enterer, once you know the patches that work best for you and use an articulation switcher.
> 
> I can’t tell you how many times I start with something else and then end up switching back to HO.


Which patches do you use to play things in? I’m guessing you have one set of patches for live playing that you then edit to select the patches you actually want in the final piece.


----------



## Audio Birdi

I'm intrigued as to what they're doing in terms of reworking the original content, which was mentioned in a post above! This has me very excited and EW is my go-to set of instruments for sure! 

My guess is, it'll release on the very last day of Fall! :D


----------



## Ashermusic

Dex said:


> Which patches do you use to play things in? I’m guessing you have one set of patches for live playing that you then edit to select the patches you actually want in the final piece.



No. I play them in with my favorite patches, and then edit. But sure, if the patch isn't working for me then I will swap it out and yes, sometimes reach for another library when it _really_ isn't working or add them to H.O.

I have lots of others that are excellent as well, including CSS, CSSS and CSB and my beloved Fluffy Audio solo woodwinds for emotive intimate work. But H.O. is just the most versatile in my experience.


----------



## borisb2

I want this thread always to be on top of that spitfire (may 7) thread


----------



## Heartii

borisb2 said:


> I want this thread always be on top of that spitfire (may 7) thread


Deal


----------



## DS_Joost

Heartii said:


> Deal



Ya got it chief😉


----------



## DS_Joost

Also, like @JohnG said, Play has been working really good the last few years (pssst... don't tell the kiddies but it actually loads and performs better than Kontakt🤫).

So perhaps the mythical Play Pro is also in the cards?


----------



## Lassi Tani

Hanu_H said:


> A separate Orchestrator that will assist you in creating award-winning compositions within seconds, and much more!



So if I compose 4h a day, and it takes 5s to create an award-winning composition, I'll make almost 3000 compositions a day, which all will win an award. I'll become a millionaire in no time! But hmm if all will win awards.. there has to be much more awards available. Interesting future awaiting us!


----------



## Hanu_H

I was a heavy EWQL user in the past, have basically everything they made back then but never jumped on the HO wagon. After they went with PLAY, the workflow just didn't work for me and also all the hassle with treating customers the way they did kind of pushed me out. But if this update fixes the workflow issues for me and is reasonably priced, I might give it a shot. I do like how the strings and brass sound.


----------



## borisb2

DS_Joost said:


> Also, like @JohnG said, Play has been working really good the last few years (pssst... don't tell the kiddies but it actually loads and performs better than Kontakt🤫).
> 
> So perhaps the mythical Play Pro is also in the cards?


On top of that Play lets you continue playing a virtual instrument from another track while it loads. No Kontakt plugin lets you do that. Loading=waiting.
On top of that in play you always have exact control of the release samples, their volume etc.. you can purge samples, have always access to ADSR etc, etc..


----------



## Quantum Leap

Hi Everyone! Keep in mind, we’ve been doing this for a long time. Longer than anyone else. We don’t care about one upping anyone. We all learn from each other and we just try and make the best stuff we can. It’s not easy. We are composers and producers. There are a few reasons we decided to do an expansion. I own many of the competing orchestral libraries and found that there are many positives, but they all have weaknesses as well. We all use multiple libraries to get some variety in tones. I end up using HO more than anything else in my template, but I recognize there are some things that need to be addressed in HO. Our first priority was to re-work the current library.

1. The biggest problem with HO is the ridiculous amount of patches. HO has some string patches that only the best computers could handle at the time. Even if we had used Kontakt, that would have been the case. To date, no one has made such deeply sampled string legato patches with 5 dynamics, multiple string positions, vibrato and non vibrato. Not many users are using these mega patches from the original release. They are stellar, though. The new expansion significantly improves and adds to the current HO. The new interface allows control that you don’t have now. It is Laser focused on orchestral instruments. Many of the old patches are gone (but you’ll still have a legacy version to access them). And you will be using the bigger patches, which will run easily. 

2. With the reprogramming and new interface, Hollywood Strings is a really strong collection. So the question is, what do you do to take it even further? We wanted to embrace what HO is all about. It is a big orchestra, so we decided to stay in that realm. HO Opus has an all new 1st violins section. It doesn’t replace the old one. It’s an alternate, like you would use in a different library. The players are all new and all from the upper echelons of the film score world. The legato is groundbreaking. The attitude is a bit different, there are some different articulations and there is more focus and precision. But it is 18 violins so it’s lush. Shawn Murphy also made some tweaks to some of the close and mid mics. The 18 violins alone took one week to record. We wanted to be able to point to this and say “this is what violins should be like”. 

3. I have never found better French horns than we have in HO, so we chose to focus on doing all new 2 trombones and all new 2 trumpets. These new samples are comprehensive and all about extreme dynamics, comprehensive articulations and precision. But really this was all about getting the right players.

4. After re-working them, we stand behind the original woodwinds. However, solo woodwinds are inherently problematic because cross fading dynamics and vibrato can never be done right with a solo instrument. It’s a real problem. There is always a small compromise. You can only fix it, if you accept that the sound will be inferior (close mics, phase aligned etc.). So we went in a different direction. We sampled 3 small woodwind sections. And they are fantastic!!

There‘s more, but I wanted to give you an idea of what we did. All the old issues with PLAY and our generic interface are gone. And the interface has one new feature that is unique and exactly the kind of thing that you’ve been waiting for. And there is the orchestrator software, which is really useful even if you are an advanced composer.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Quantum Leap said:


> Hi Everyone! Keep in mind, we’ve been doing this for a long time. Longer than anyone else. We don’t care about one upping anyone. We all learn from each other and we just try and make the best stuff we can. It’s not easy. We are composers and producers. There are a few reasons we decided to do an expansion. I’m more focused on music these days than samples. I own many of the competing orchestral libraries and found that there are many positives, but they all have weaknesses. We all use multiple libraries to get some variety in tones. I end up using HO more than anything else in my template, but I recognize there are so many things that need to be addressed in HO. Our first priority was to polish the old library.
> 
> 1. The biggest problem with HO is the non specific interface and ridiculous amount of patches. (PLAY was the problem at the start but not any more) You have to understand that HO has string patches that no computer could handle at the time. Even if we had used Kontakt, that would have been the case. To this date, no one has made such deeply sampled string legato patches with 5 dynamics, multiple string positions, vibrato and non vibrato. No one is using these mega patches From the original release. even today. They are stellar, though. The new library addresses all the stuff that’s wrong with the old library first. It’s all cleaned up and tightened up. The new interface allows control that you don’t have now. It is Laser focused on orchestral instruments. 90% of the old patches are gone. And you will be using the bigger patches, which will run easily.
> 
> 2. With the reprogramming and new interface, Hollywood Strings is a really strong library. So the question is, what do you do to take it even further? We wanted to embrace what HO is all about. It is a big orchestra, so we decided to stay in that realm. HO Opus has an all new 1st violins section. It doesn’t replace the old one. It’s an alternate, like you would use in a different library. The players are all new and all from the upper echelons of the film score world. The legato is groundbreaking. The attitude is a bit different, there are some different articulations and there is more focus and precision. But it is 16violins so it’s lush. Sean Murphy also made some tweaks to some of the close and mid mics. The 16 violins alone took one week to record. We wanted to be able to point to this and say “this is what violins should be like”.
> 
> 3. I have never found better French horns than we have in HO, so we chose to focus on doing all new 2 trombones and all new 2 trumpets. These new samples are comprehensive and all about extreme dynamics, comprehensive articulations and precision. But really this was all about getting the right players.
> 
> 4. After the cleanup, we stand behind the original woodwinds. However, solo woodwinds are inherently problematic because cross fading dynamics and vibrato can never be done right with a solo instrument. It’s a real problem. There is always a small compromise. You can only fix it, if you accept that the sound will be inferior (close mics, phase aligned etc..) So we went in a different direction. We sampled 3 small woodwind sections. And they are fantastic!!
> 
> There‘s more, but I wanted to give you an idea of what we did. All the old issues with PLAY and our generic interface are gone. And the interface has one new feature that is unique and exactly the kind of thing that you’ve been waiting for. And there is the orchestrator software, which is useful even if you are an advanced composer.



That's-a spicy update!

Very much looking forward to it


----------



## Simon Groß

"A separate Orchestrator that will assist you in creating award-winning compositions within seconds" Im Interessted what this is. I hope its more than a useless crapy feature you will never use again after first couple of times. But this whole release looks really interessting.


----------



## el-bo

Chungus said:


> >coming in fall
> 
> Looks like they're trying to one-up Spitfire in the excessively early announcements department. lol



Perhaps they are hoping that such advanced knowledge of the impending release will stop potential customers from blowing all their cash during the Summer sales


----------



## Hanu_H

Quantum Leap said:


> Hi Everyone! Keep in mind, we’ve been doing this for a long time. Longer than anyone else. We don’t care about one upping anyone. We all learn from each other and we just try and make the best stuff we can. It’s not easy. We are composers and producers. There are a few reasons we decided to do an expansion. I’m more focused on music these days than samples. I own many of the competing orchestral libraries and found that there are many positives, but they all have weaknesses. We all use multiple libraries to get some variety in tones. I end up using HO more than anything else in my template, but I recognize there are so many things that need to be addressed in HO. Our first priority was to polish the old library.
> 
> 1. The biggest problem with HO is the non specific interface and ridiculous amount of patches. (PLAY was the problem at the start but not any more) You have to understand that HO has string patches that no computer could handle at the time. Even if we had used Kontakt, that would have been the case. To this date, no one has made such deeply sampled string legato patches with 5 dynamics, multiple string positions, vibrato and non vibrato. No one is using these mega patches From the original release. even today. They are stellar, though. The new library addresses all the stuff that’s wrong with the old library first. It’s all cleaned up and tightened up. The new interface allows control that you don’t have now. It is Laser focused on orchestral instruments. 90% of the old patches are gone. And you will be using the bigger patches, which will run easily.
> 
> 2. With the reprogramming and new interface, Hollywood Strings is a really strong library. So the question is, what do you do to take it even further? We wanted to embrace what HO is all about. It is a big orchestra, so we decided to stay in that realm. HO Opus has an all new 1st violins section. It doesn’t replace the old one. It’s an alternate, like you would use in a different library. The players are all new and all from the upper echelons of the film score world. The legato is groundbreaking. The attitude is a bit different, there are some different articulations and there is more focus and precision. But it is 16violins so it’s lush. Sean Murphy also made some tweaks to some of the close and mid mics. The 16 violins alone took one week to record. We wanted to be able to point to this and say “this is what violins should be like”.
> 
> 3. I have never found better French horns than we have in HO, so we chose to focus on doing all new 2 trombones and all new 2 trumpets. These new samples are comprehensive and all about extreme dynamics, comprehensive articulations and precision. But really this was all about getting the right players.
> 
> 4. After the cleanup, we stand behind the original woodwinds. However, solo woodwinds are inherently problematic because cross fading dynamics and vibrato can never be done right with a solo instrument. It’s a real problem. There is always a small compromise. You can only fix it, if you accept that the sound will be inferior (close mics, phase aligned etc..) So we went in a different direction. We sampled 3 small woodwind sections. And they are fantastic!!
> 
> There‘s more, but I wanted to give you an idea of what we did. All the old issues with PLAY and our generic interface are gone. And the interface has one new feature that is unique and exactly the kind of thing that you’ve been waiting for. And there is the orchestrator software, which is useful even if you are an advanced composer.


Thanks for more information. This all sounds really great. It's been a long time since I've been this excited about a sample library update.


----------



## DS_Joost

Woodwind sections whoohoo!!!😁

Am I the only one that never really had a problem with the solo woodwinds?


----------



## Michael Antrum

It all sounds rather fantastic, doesn't it. The interface upgrade I look forward to with interest, and the new recordings I am sure will be welcomed. Although I think there will probably be some grumbles for those who have spent ages learning all the arcane patch names and in's and out's of the previous patches - but I'd imagine there's probably some way to have both 'versions'. I've got Hollywood Orchestra Diamond and use the strings and brass a fair bit, but not so much these days.

The orchestrator sounds a bit overblown from the marketing. I wonder if it's some kind of 'play the chords' and we'll place all the notes in the relevant sections using these presets - Epic, Super Epic and Romantic. Either it's way overhyped, or something a bit different. So we shall see. However, orchestrator aside, Hollywood Orchestra is well overdue a little TLC (and it sounds like they have made a big effort with it) so I do congratulate them, and look forward to seeing what eventually turns up later in the year, thought as @Gene Pool notes, I won't be booking my tux just yet !

In the meantime, I continue my love affair with Staffpad. I find it like composing with pen and paper, but with lots of benefits. Playing back from the 'sheet music' is helping refine my inner ear, though you have to be careful to not 'write to the library'. Plus the page is not riddled with corrections and I don't have to (attempt to) read my own chicken scratch.

I haven't turned on Cubase for composition for weeks, and I don't miss it a jot....


----------



## cqd

Woo hoo..
I'm kind of happy they said the woodwinds are grand and just added to them with sections too..


----------



## cqd

DS_Joost said:


> Woodwind sections whoohoo!!!😁
> 
> Am I the only one that never really had a problem with the solo woodwinds?



No.. they're actually my favourite woodwinds..
I'm convinced people giving out about them are just repeating what they read on the internet trying to sound cool..


----------



## Kubler

Quantum Leap said:


> Hi Everyone! Keep in mind, we’ve been doing this for a long time. Longer than anyone else. We don’t care about one upping anyone. We all learn from each other and we just try and make the best stuff we can. It’s not easy. We are composers and producers. There are a few reasons we decided to do an expansion. I’m more focused on music these days than samples. I own many of the competing orchestral libraries and found that there are many positives, but they all have weaknesses. We all use multiple libraries to get some variety in tones. I end up using HO more than anything else in my template, but I recognize there are so many things that need to be addressed in HO. Our first priority was to polish the old library.
> 
> 1. The biggest problem with HO is the non specific interface and ridiculous amount of patches. (PLAY was the problem at the start but not any more) You have to understand that HO has string patches that no computer could handle at the time. Even if we had used Kontakt, that would have been the case. To this date, no one has made such deeply sampled string legato patches with 5 dynamics, multiple string positions, vibrato and non vibrato. No one is using these mega patches From the original release. even today. They are stellar, though. The new library addresses all the stuff that’s wrong with the old library first. It’s all cleaned up and tightened up. The new interface allows control that you don’t have now. It is Laser focused on orchestral instruments. 90% of the old patches are gone. And you will be using the bigger patches, which will run easily.
> 
> 2. With the reprogramming and new interface, Hollywood Strings is a really strong library. So the question is, what do you do to take it even further? We wanted to embrace what HO is all about. It is a big orchestra, so we decided to stay in that realm. HO Opus has an all new 1st violins section. It doesn’t replace the old one. It’s an alternate, like you would use in a different library. The players are all new and all from the upper echelons of the film score world. The legato is groundbreaking. The attitude is a bit different, there are some different articulations and there is more focus and precision. But it is 16violins so it’s lush. Sean Murphy also made some tweaks to some of the close and mid mics. The 16 violins alone took one week to record. We wanted to be able to point to this and say “this is what violins should be like”.
> 
> 3. I have never found better French horns than we have in HO, so we chose to focus on doing all new 2 trombones and all new 2 trumpets. These new samples are comprehensive and all about extreme dynamics, comprehensive articulations and precision. But really this was all about getting the right players.
> 
> 4. After the cleanup, we stand behind the original woodwinds. However, solo woodwinds are inherently problematic because cross fading dynamics and vibrato can never be done right with a solo instrument. It’s a real problem. There is always a small compromise. You can only fix it, if you accept that the sound will be inferior (close mics, phase aligned etc..) So we went in a different direction. We sampled 3 small woodwind sections. And they are fantastic!!
> 
> There‘s more, but I wanted to give you an idea of what we did. All the old issues with PLAY and our generic interface are gone. And the interface has one new feature that is unique and exactly the kind of thing that you’ve been waiting for. And there is the orchestrator software, which is useful even if you are an advanced composer.


Well I can't say I'm not genuinely excited now. I've always been rather happy with how HO sounds, my issue has been solely related to the patches and Play's usability. If both are fixed and there's new stuff on top of that, I really can't wait to get some preview !


----------



## Heartii

What i love about them, is that they are stuck in the reality, they don't lie about the issues that we may have encounter in PLAY or during the use of the library, i find it very promising.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

DS_Joost said:


> Woodwind sections whoohoo!!!😁
> 
> Am I the only one that never really had a problem with the solo woodwinds?



Nope.


----------



## OleJoergensen

It is very exciting. I especially look forward to legato String update!


----------



## mcalis

@Quantum Leap I own Percussion Diamond, Brass Diamond and Strings Diamond, but I never purchased the full Orchestra Diamond package. Will there be an upgrade path for users like me?

As for the interface, I've gotten used to it so I don't have many complaints about it, though I do hope that we will be able to have both the vintage and surround mics loaded in the new interface? I've never really _needed_ to, but it always seemed odd to me that there was a toggle on those mics. @Quantum Leap is there anything you can say about this?

Overall, I am pleasantly surprised by this announcement. I was a bit concerned that this update/expansion would (to put it very bluntly) "dumb down" the Hollywood Orchestra into big ensemble patches and recordings. Ensembles patches are useful, don't get me wrong, but a major reason I bought into the Hollywood series is the precise control it gives me (particularly regarding the strings). So, quite happy to see that this doesn't seem to be the case!

On the woodwinds, the choice for new ensemble woodwind recordings makes a great deal of sense to me, because it avoids the issues associated with solo woodwinds and because (I assume) these were recorded in EW Studio 1 and not in the solo booths? That should allow for a nice homogeneous sound in large orchestrations and when a solo is needed, either HOW can be used, or some auxiliary library.

I don't think HOW is as bad as it is made out to be, frankly, the tone is great across the board (imo) and they really shine on the close mics. I particularly like the oboe, which has a quirky, sharp sound that I haven't been able to get from any other virtual oboe I own. Glad to see that the woods will be reprogrammed however because the programming on the patches is arguably the weakest point, most notably on the legatos.



> [...] No one is using these mega patches From the original release [...]



Ahum... _Raises hand_. I actually do use the full legato powerful system patches, on all sections 

I am very curious about the new 1st violins. If I am being completely honest, I would have rather seen the basses or violas revisited, but those probably aren't as sexy to market/sell. I am however hopeful that, if this expansion sells well enough, EW might consider revisiting the basses and violas too. Particularly the basses.


----------



## Eptesicus

Quantum Leap said:


> Hi Everyone! Keep in mind, we’ve been doing this for a long time. Longer than anyone else. We don’t care about one upping anyone. We all learn from each other and we just try and make the best stuff we can. It’s not easy. We are composers and producers. There are a few reasons we decided to do an expansion. I’m more focused on music these days than samples. I own many of the competing orchestral libraries and found that there are many positives, but they all have weaknesses. We all use multiple libraries to get some variety in tones. I end up using HO more than anything else in my template, but I recognize there are so many things that need to be addressed in HO. Our first priority was to polish the old library.
> 
> 1. The biggest problem with HO is the non specific interface and ridiculous amount of patches. (PLAY was the problem at the start but not any more) You have to understand that HO has string patches that no computer could handle at the time. Even if we had used Kontakt, that would have been the case. To this date, no one has made such deeply sampled string legato patches with 5 dynamics, multiple string positions, vibrato and non vibrato. No one is using these mega patches From the original release. even today. They are stellar, though. The new library addresses all the stuff that’s wrong with the old library first. It’s all cleaned up and tightened up. The new interface allows control that you don’t have now. It is Laser focused on orchestral instruments. 90% of the old patches are gone. And you will be using the bigger patches, which will run easily.
> 
> 2. With the reprogramming and new interface, Hollywood Strings is a really strong library. So the question is, what do you do to take it even further? We wanted to embrace what HO is all about. It is a big orchestra, so we decided to stay in that realm. HO Opus has an all new 1st violins section. It doesn’t replace the old one. It’s an alternate, like you would use in a different library. The players are all new and all from the upper echelons of the film score world. The legato is groundbreaking. The attitude is a bit different, there are some different articulations and there is more focus and precision. But it is 16violins so it’s lush. Sean Murphy also made some tweaks to some of the close and mid mics. The 16 violins alone took one week to record. We wanted to be able to point to this and say “this is what violins should be like”.
> 
> 3. I have never found better French horns than we have in HO, so we chose to focus on doing all new 2 trombones and all new 2 trumpets. These new samples are comprehensive and all about extreme dynamics, comprehensive articulations and precision. But really this was all about getting the right players.
> 
> 4. After the cleanup, we stand behind the original woodwinds. However, solo woodwinds are inherently problematic because cross fading dynamics and vibrato can never be done right with a solo instrument. It’s a real problem. There is always a small compromise. You can only fix it, if you accept that the sound will be inferior (close mics, phase aligned etc..) So we went in a different direction. We sampled 3 small woodwind sections. And they are fantastic!!
> 
> There‘s more, but I wanted to give you an idea of what we did. All the old issues with PLAY and our generic interface are gone. And the interface has one new feature that is unique and exactly the kind of thing that you’ve been waiting for. And there is the orchestrator software, which is useful even if you are an advanced composer.



Cool. This sounds promising.

Hopefully you have a nice upgrade price for people who own all the original HO diamond stuff


----------



## dariusofwest

Quantum Leap said:


> Hi Everyone! Keep in mind, we’ve been doing this for a long time. Longer than anyone else. We don’t care about one upping anyone. We all learn from each other and we just try and make the best stuff we can. It’s not easy. We are composers and producers. There are a few reasons we decided to do an expansion. I’m more focused on music these days than samples. I own many of the competing orchestral libraries and found that there are many positives, but they all have weaknesses. We all use multiple libraries to get some variety in tones. I end up using HO more than anything else in my template, but I recognize there are so many things that need to be addressed in HO. Our first priority was to polish the old library.
> 
> 1. The biggest problem with HO is the non specific interface and ridiculous amount of patches. (PLAY was the problem at the start but not any more) You have to understand that HO has string patches that no computer could handle at the time. Even if we had used Kontakt, that would have been the case. To this date, no one has made such deeply sampled string legato patches with 5 dynamics, multiple string positions, vibrato and non vibrato. No one is using these mega patches From the original release. even today. They are stellar, though. The new library addresses all the stuff that’s wrong with the old library first. It’s all cleaned up and tightened up. The new interface allows control that you don’t have now. It is Laser focused on orchestral instruments. 90% of the old patches are gone. And you will be using the bigger patches, which will run easily.
> 
> 2. With the reprogramming and new interface, Hollywood Strings is a really strong library. So the question is, what do you do to take it even further? We wanted to embrace what HO is all about. It is a big orchestra, so we decided to stay in that realm. HO Opus has an all new 1st violins section. It doesn’t replace the old one. It’s an alternate, like you would use in a different library. The players are all new and all from the upper echelons of the film score world. The legato is groundbreaking. The attitude is a bit different, there are some different articulations and there is more focus and precision. But it is 16violins so it’s lush. Sean Murphy also made some tweaks to some of the close and mid mics. The 16 violins alone took one week to record. We wanted to be able to point to this and say “this is what violins should be like”.
> 
> 3. I have never found better French horns than we have in HO, so we chose to focus on doing all new 2 trombones and all new 2 trumpets. These new samples are comprehensive and all about extreme dynamics, comprehensive articulations and precision. But really this was all about getting the right players.
> 
> 4. After the cleanup, we stand behind the original woodwinds. However, solo woodwinds are inherently problematic because cross fading dynamics and vibrato can never be done right with a solo instrument. It’s a real problem. There is always a small compromise. You can only fix it, if you accept that the sound will be inferior (close mics, phase aligned etc..) So we went in a different direction. We sampled 3 small woodwind sections. And they are fantastic!!
> 
> There‘s more, but I wanted to give you an idea of what we did. All the old issues with PLAY and our generic interface are gone. And the interface has one new feature that is unique and exactly the kind of thing that you’ve been waiting for. And there is the orchestrator software, which is useful even if you are an advanced composer.



Super excited for this! Especially the new trombones :D


----------



## sIR dORT

So excited for this. Trombones and trumpets absolutely needed an update, the woodwinds needed to be changed in some way, and the workflow needed to be smoother. ✅ ✅ ✅


----------



## MA-Simon

I am very, very disapointed in East West for not offering upgrades in their sales.
*It would cost me less to buy diamond new then to upgrade from gold to diamond*. That has always put me off. Because it shows how little EastWest cared to support current customers.

Before I buy anything from East West again, this needs to be adressed before this company can gain back my trust.


----------



## Pablocrespo

MA-Simon said:


> I am very, very disapointed in East West for not offering upgrades in their sales.
> *It would cost me less to buy diamond new then to upgrade from gold to diamond*. That has always put me off. Because it shows how little EastWest cared to support current customers.
> 
> Before I buy anything from East West again, this needs to be adressed before this company can gain back my trust.


Don´t forget spaces II, that´s some customer loyalty...
Is there a way @Quantum Leap can address these concerns about upgrade pricing?


----------



## Kubler

MA-Simon said:


> I am very, very disapointed in East West for not offering upgrades in their sales.
> *It would cost me less to buy diamond new then to upgrade from gold to diamond*. That has always put me off. Because it shows how little EastWest cared to support current customers.
> 
> Before I buy anything from East West again, this needs to be adressed before this company can gain back my trust.





Pablocrespo said:


> Don´t forget spaces II, that´s some customer loyalty...
> Is there a way @Quantum Leap can address these concerns about upgrade pricing?


They have stated on Facebook that there would be upgrade paths.


----------



## Allen Constantine

This is Major! Can't wait for it!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I appreciate them announcing this with some details early. I won't be buying other libraries when I know this is on the horizon. Sounds exactly like what I hoped for.


----------



## Eptesicus

Kubler said:


> They have stated on Facebook that there would be upgrade paths.



The trouble seems to come when there are sales. They don't seem to drop the upgrade price in line with the full product price which is silly and often means the full product costs less than the upgrade.


----------



## J-M

Well...this sounds like something to be carefully excited about!


----------



## Kubler

Eptesicus said:


> The trouble seems to come when there are sales. They don't seem to drop the upgrade price in line with the full product price which is silly and often means the full product costs less than the upgrade.


Oh, I see


----------



## shawnsingh

DS_Joost said:


> Also, like @JohnG said, Play has been working really good the last few years (pssst... don't tell the kiddies but it actually loads and performs better than Kontakt🤫).
> 
> So perhaps the mythical Play Pro is also in the cards?



Have I been living in the dark ages with play 5 then? I had been afraid of upgrading because my setup right now is stable and works...


----------



## jamieboo

shawnsingh said:


> Have I been living in the dark ages with play 5 then? I had been afraid of upgrading because my setup right now is stable and works...


I'd wondered this. I've been on 5 for ages and it's working without problems, so I've seen no real need to upgrade - especially as I always seem to be in the middle of projects to don't want to risk tickling the tectonics.
There's wisdom in 'If it aint broke don't fix it', but am I missing out on better performance or whatever?
Is it worth the risk of upgrading mid-project?

Sorry for the offtopicness!


----------



## José Herring

Quantum Leap said:


> Hi Everyone! Keep in mind, we’ve been doing this for a long time. Longer than anyone else. We don’t care about one upping anyone. We all learn from each other and we just try and make the best stuff we can. It’s not easy. We are composers and producers. There are a few reasons we decided to do an expansion. I own many of the competing orchestral libraries and found that there are many positives, but they all have weaknesses as well. We all use multiple libraries to get some variety in tones. I end up using HO more than anything else in my template, but I recognize there are some things that need to be addressed in HO. Our first priority was to re-work the current library.
> 
> 1. The biggest problem with HO is the ridiculous amount of patches. HO has some string patches that only the best computers could handle at the time. Even if we had used Kontakt, that would have been the case. To date, no one has made such deeply sampled string legato patches with 5 dynamics, multiple string positions, vibrato and non vibrato. Not many users are using these mega patches from the original release. They are stellar, though. The new expansion significantly improves and adds to the current HO. The new interface allows control that you don’t have now. It is Laser focused on orchestral instruments. Many of the old patches are gone (but you’ll still have a legacy version to access them). And you will be using the bigger patches, which will run easily.
> 
> 2. With the reprogramming and new interface, Hollywood Strings is a really strong collection. So the question is, what do you do to take it even further? We wanted to embrace what HO is all about. It is a big orchestra, so we decided to stay in that realm. HO Opus has an all new 1st violins section. It doesn’t replace the old one. It’s an alternate, like you would use in a different library. The players are all new and all from the upper echelons of the film score world. The legato is groundbreaking. The attitude is a bit different, there are some different articulations and there is more focus and precision. But it is 18 violins so it’s lush. Shawn Murphy also made some tweaks to some of the close and mid mics. The 18 violins alone took one week to record. We wanted to be able to point to this and say “this is what violins should be like”.
> 
> 3. I have never found better French horns than we have in HO, so we chose to focus on doing all new 2 trombones and all new 2 trumpets. These new samples are comprehensive and all about extreme dynamics, comprehensive articulations and precision. But really this was all about getting the right players.
> 
> 4. After re-working them, we stand behind the original woodwinds. However, solo woodwinds are inherently problematic because cross fading dynamics and vibrato can never be done right with a solo instrument. It’s a real problem. There is always a small compromise. You can only fix it, if you accept that the sound will be inferior (close mics, phase aligned etc.). So we went in a different direction. We sampled 3 small woodwind sections. And they are fantastic!!
> 
> There‘s more, but I wanted to give you an idea of what we did. All the old issues with PLAY and our generic interface are gone. And the interface has one new feature that is unique and exactly the kind of thing that you’ve been waiting for. And there is the orchestrator software, which is really useful even if you are an advanced composer.


Sounds fantastic! I would love to keep it all in the HO family so I'm looking forward to it. May just hold off on other major library purchases and just upgrade to Diamond then wait for this. 

If you have time to answer. Horns are great but if you are resampling Tbones and Trumpets with additional dynamic range will they match the horns?

Woodwinds sections great idea. I still use the EWQLSO woodwind sections. In context they are still so good.

Any word on orchestral percussion? Do you foresee any more work on that being done?


----------



## MauroPantin

Play 6 is really nice, never an issue for me so far. I would love to be able to purge unused samples as in Kontakt, but other than that, smooth sails!


----------



## borisb2

MauroPantin said:


> Play 6 is really nice, never an issue for me so far. I would love to be able to purge unused samples as in Kontakt, but other than that, smooth sails!


You can‘t purge samples in Play5? In Play6 you can purge articulations, release samples etc, basically anything that has its own group - of course you can‘t purge indivdiual samples - but neither can you do that with CSS or CSB etc


----------



## Ashermusic

jamieboo said:


> I'd wondered this. I've been on 5 for ages and it's working without problems, so I've seen no real need to upgrade - especially as I always seem to be in the middle of projects to don't want to risk tickling the tectonics.
> There's wisdom in 'If it aint broke don't fix it', but am I missing out on better performance or whatever?
> Is it worth the risk of upgrading mid-project?
> 
> Sorry for the offtopicness!



Play 6 is a big improvement IMHO, but never, ever, ever upgrade *ANY* critical software mid-project.

Never, ever!


----------



## pmcrockett

borisb2 said:


> You can‘t purge samples in Play5? In Play6 you can purge articulations, release samples etc, basically anything that has its own group - of course you can‘t purge indivdiual samples - but neither can you do that with CSS or CSB etc


Play 5 is like Play 6 with purging. The issue with Play's purging in general is that once you've purged, there's no way to reload a patch's samples unless you reload _all_ of its samples, which means that purging is only something you can do if 1) you know you won't need a patch or 2) you're already completely done writing/programming for the patch and want to free up memory. Notably, Kontakt can do 3) you want to automatically load individual samples as needed so you can both free up RAM and continue writing with the patch, but Play cannot do this, which severely limits the usefulness of its purge.


----------



## Ashermusic

pmcrockett said:


> Play 5 is like Play 6 with purging. The issue with Play's purging in general is that once you've purged, there's no way to reload a patch's samples unless you reload _all_ of its samples, which means that purging is only something you can do if 1) you know you won't need a patch or 2) you're already completely done writing/programming for the patch and want to free up memory. Notably, Kontakt can do 3) you want to automatically load individual samples as needed so you can both free up RAM and continue writing with the patch, but Play cannot do this, which severely limits the usefulness of its purge.



True, that is an area where Play has room for improvement.


----------



## MauroPantin

borisb2 said:


> You can‘t purge samples in Play5? In Play6 you can purge articulations, release samples etc, basically anything that has its own group - of course you can‘t purge indivdiual samples - but neither can you do that with CSS or CSB etc



I have Play 6, not sure why you mentioned 5? 

Still, like others have mentioned, the ability to purge as it is in Play is not really that useful. What I want is what we have in Kontakt, I purge all the samples and then when a key is pressed that individual sample is recalled and streamed from disk on the fly. Provided you are using SSD drives it works flawlessly and it is a great optimization for memory usage. It also makes a template load instantly.


----------



## borisb2

Thought you have Play 5 - sorry , my mistake


----------



## AllanH

This sounds like a very interesting update to Hollywood Orchestra. I very much enjoy the tone and performance of the the Strings and Brass. Getting section WW will be huge. Along with the other improvements. I like the approach of the bigger patches, as that makes it a lot easier to use. With HO, I generally just use the stac/marc legato slur style patches as they run easily on a modern computer. Looking forward to the release!


----------



## Lassi Tani

I really like your approach: What's already great, don't fix it, and when something needs fixing, then do totally new recordings, but add them to the existing library. There's no sense in releasing new orchestral libraries all the time, when the foundation is solid. I'm using just a few patches from the whole library, and would like to use more. Looking forward to the release!



Quantum Leap said:


> And the interface has one new feature that is unique and exactly the kind of thing that you’ve been waiting for.



What might that be?


----------



## Geoff Grace

Zedcars said:


> Are we calling it HOOE?
> 
> (One of these days an abbreviated library is going to accidentally spell a rude word...  Can’t wait until Super Hollywood Insane Tambourines comes out.)


I don't know, but "Hooey" isn't exactly a good thing.

I'm hoping the new organization of patches will be anything but nonsensical. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## peladio

Very excited..


----------



## El Buhdai

DS_Joost said:


> Also, like @JohnG said, Play has been working really good the last few years (pssst... don't tell the kiddies but it actually loads and performs better than Kontakt🤫).



In what universe? Am I just unlucky? 

A full orchestra made of Kontakt libraries takes about 2 minutes to load, while my full Hollywood Orchestra template takes about 15 - 30 minutes to load from the same SSD..

Alright back to lurking.


----------



## Eptesicus

El Buhdai said:


> In what universe? Am I just unlucky?
> 
> A full orchestra made of Kontakt libraries takes about 2 minutes to load, while my full Hollywood Orchestra template takes about 15 - 30 minutes to load from the same SSD..
> 
> Alright back to lurking.



This. Play's loading times are hilariously slow compared to kontakt/Sine etc. Got it all running on a nvme ssd too.


----------



## Piotrek K.

> Hollywood Orchestra template takes about 15 - 30 minutes to load from the same SSD



Had same issue. Wanted to drop HWS because of that. But then I made exception in Windows Defender for my samples folder and... wow, what a change. Strings gold with 10 articulations per instance including powerful patches load in like a minute or so. Before that... 5 minutes? I actually couldn't believe that it was Windows Defender fault all the way. At least in my case.


----------



## Eptesicus

Piotrek K. said:


> Had same issue. Wanted to drop HWS because of that. But then I made exception in Windows Defender for my samples folder and... wow, what a change. Strings gold with 10 articulations per instance including powerful patches load in like a minute or so. Before that... 5 minutes? I actually couldn't believe that it was Windows Defender fault all the way. At least in my case.



Yes this is a good tip to do with all sample libraries.

Eve with this though, i find the loading times are still awful in comparison to other players.


----------



## DS_Joost

El Buhdai said:


> In what universe? Am I just unlucky?
> 
> A full orchestra made of Kontakt libraries takes about 2 minutes to load, while my full Hollywood Orchestra template takes about 15 - 30 minutes to load from the same SSD..
> 
> Alright back to lurking.



Pro tip: exclude your sample folders from whatever your real time virus/malware protection you have running😉

Dang, someone was faster...


----------



## I like music

DS_Joost said:


> Pro tip: exclude your sample folders from whatever your real time virus/malware protection you have running😉
> 
> Dang, someone was faster...


I did this thanks to advice on VI Control. Load time went from 13th minutes to 3 minutes!


----------



## John R Wilson

I like music said:


> I did this thanks to advice on VI Control. Load time went from 13th minutes to 3 minutes!



I had problems with Hollywood orchestra and anti virus software in the past. All my play instances where disappearing on loading an existing project. Turns out it was my bloody anti virus software blocking it. Since then I instantly put my sample library folders on the exclusion list on any anti virus software that I may have on the computer.


----------



## I like music

John R Wilson said:


> I had problems with Hollywood orchestra and anti virus software in the past. All my play instances where disappearing on loading an existing project. Turns out it was my bloody anti virus software blocking it. Since then I instantly put my sample library folders on the exclusion list on any anti virus software that I may have on the computer.


Same here but also with Kontakt! Beautiful feeling when things like these resolve nicely...


----------



## novaburst

Ashermusic said:


> Play 6 is a big improvement IMHO, but never, ever, ever upgrade *ANY* critical software mid-project.
> 
> Never, ever!



I used to go with this methodology, but there are measures you can take to minimize any issues like make sure you have anexisting version you was using, save your projects to a back up drive just incase.

From VEpro , Kontackt, Play, VI, SP,Sine Cubase, all upgrade smoothly i went from Cubase 6 to 10 with no issues, i think for the most part newer versions offer better performance, and that can only be a plus.

I think if you have your existing version you should be safe

Yes yes i know this is contary to the status quo and main line of thought but i think the risk is minimal.

Safety points just back your files, and have the existing software on standby i think you have a 10% failure rate and a 90% succsess rate.

There are one or two things to look at, if the new updated software is offering better performance then that means you will do better in your ongoing project, things like no more crashes, lower CPU usage, faster loading times, snapier performance better GUI, added additions are all to welcome when it comes to working in your project and all will benifit your ongoing project.


----------



## handz

Play is absolutely horrible with loading times, it is absolutely impossible to just open project and work, I have whole HO Gold on SSD and it takes 30 mins to load a project while Kontakt only project of same size is almost instant. This is something that is not solved for years and is extremely annoying.


----------



## aaronnt1

handz said:


> Play is absolutely horrible with loading times, it is absolutely impossible to just open project and work, I have whole HO Gold on SSD and it takes 30 mins to load a project while Kontakt only project of same size is almost instant. This is something that is not solved for years and is extremely annoying.


 
I think there must be something askew with your setup as PLAY loads very fast for me. I have projects full of Diamond editions, full power legato patches and multiple mic positions and doesn't take anywhere near that time, maybe a 10th of that. On the other hand Kontakt patches can load up much slower (when not using the handy purge feature).

Have you tried adding the samples folders to your antivirus exceptions list as suggested on here?

It would be a good idea to also split your libraries across multiple SSD's wherever possible. But it sounds like there is something else going on as it definitely shouldn't take 30 minutes. I find PLAY 6 loads super fast, much more so than previous versions.


----------



## Ashermusic

aaronnt1 said:


> I think there must be something askew with your setup as PLAY loads very fast for me. I have projects full of Diamond editions, full power legato patches and multiple mic positions and doesn't take anywhere near that time, maybe a 10th of that.



Yep, something wrong for sure.


----------



## gst98

handz said:


> Play is absolutely horrible with loading times, it is absolutely impossible to just open project and work, I have whole HO Gold on SSD and it takes 30 mins to load a project while Kontakt only project of same size is almost instant. This is something that is not solved for years and is extremely annoying.



Yeah there's something wrong with how you have it set up. Is it a built in SSD? or at least plugged directly in?

The thing Play does unlike Kontakt, is when it loads stuff, I can still use logic. Where as Kontakt stops you from doing anything as it loads. And if you change a Logic setting it wants to reload every konakt instance for some reason.


----------



## Jdiggity1

It'd also be worth double checking your cache levels in Settings under the Streaming tab.
If you're running from SSDs you can turn that down to 1 and in many cases 0.


----------



## EwigWanderer

Fast for me too. 30min?? Man..theres something wrong!


----------



## Johnny

Quantum Leap said:


> Hi Everyone! Keep in mind, we’ve been doing this for a long time. Longer than anyone else. We don’t care about one upping anyone. We all learn from each other and we just try and make the best stuff we can. It’s not easy. We are composers and producers. There are a few reasons we decided to do an expansion. I own many of the competing orchestral libraries and found that there are many positives, but they all have weaknesses as well. We all use multiple libraries to get some variety in tones. I end up using HO more than anything else in my template, but I recognize there are some things that need to be addressed in HO. Our first priority was to re-work the current library.
> 
> 1. The biggest problem with HO is the ridiculous amount of patches. HO has some string patches that only the best computers could handle at the time. Even if we had used Kontakt, that would have been the case. To date, no one has made such deeply sampled string legato patches with 5 dynamics, multiple string positions, vibrato and non vibrato. Not many users are using these mega patches from the original release. They are stellar, though. The new expansion significantly improves and adds to the current HO. The new interface allows control that you don’t have now. It is Laser focused on orchestral instruments. Many of the old patches are gone (but you’ll still have a legacy version to access them). And you will be using the bigger patches, which will run easily.
> 
> 2. With the reprogramming and new interface, Hollywood Strings is a really strong collection. So the question is, what do you do to take it even further? We wanted to embrace what HO is all about. It is a big orchestra, so we decided to stay in that realm. HO Opus has an all new 1st violins section. It doesn’t replace the old one. It’s an alternate, like you would use in a different library. The players are all new and all from the upper echelons of the film score world. The legato is groundbreaking. The attitude is a bit different, there are some different articulations and there is more focus and precision. But it is 18 violins so it’s lush. Shawn Murphy also made some tweaks to some of the close and mid mics. The 18 violins alone took one week to record. We wanted to be able to point to this and say “this is what violins should be like”.
> 
> 3. I have never found better French horns than we have in HO, so we chose to focus on doing all new 2 trombones and all new 2 trumpets. These new samples are comprehensive and all about extreme dynamics, comprehensive articulations and precision. But really this was all about getting the right players.
> 
> 4. After re-working them, we stand behind the original woodwinds. However, solo woodwinds are inherently problematic because cross fading dynamics and vibrato can never be done right with a solo instrument. It’s a real problem. There is always a small compromise. You can only fix it, if you accept that the sound will be inferior (close mics, phase aligned etc.). So we went in a different direction. We sampled 3 small woodwind sections. And they are fantastic!!
> 
> There‘s more, but I wanted to give you an idea of what we did. All the old issues with PLAY and our generic interface are gone. And the interface has one new feature that is unique and exactly the kind of thing that you’ve been waiting for. And there is the orchestrator software, which is really useful even if you are an advanced composer.


Fantastic! Looking forward!


----------



## Salorom

One real issue with Play on macOS is how it poorly handles inactive memory. The amount of ram needed to use Hollywood Orchestra has always been insanely higher than on Windows, largely because of that. I really hope EW seriously commit to providing a fix at last, as it ruins all the fun for Mac users with large templates.


----------



## sylent01

shawnsingh said:


> Have I been living in the dark ages with play 5 then? I had been afraid of upgrading because my setup right now is stable and works...


If you’re confident in picking up the upgrade, I wonder if play 6 might be included?


----------



## cqd

I think play 6 is free now..


----------



## José Herring

Yes, you can download Play 6 anytime with no charge. I just recently did it. Painless. It's good for what it does.

And comparing Play to Kontakt would be the same as comparing Kontakt Player to Kontakt. Yes they're kind of the same thing but not really.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

DS_Joost said:


> Woodwind sections whoohoo!!!😁
> 
> Am I the only one that never really had a problem with the solo woodwinds?


That has certainly got me excited as well 

Along with ALL the other parts mentioned


----------



## Johnny

The new legato scripting and 1st Violins, to augment Hollywood Strings even more is just what the doctor ordered! As mentioned by EW, I'm sure the large Powerful System Hollywood String patches still do kill for 2020, but more times than not I reach for Soaring Strings or Agitato Grandious in a melodic line just because they are just so dam easy, and they work


----------



## jneebz

Eptesicus said:


> Play's loading times are hilariously slow compared to kontakt/Sine etc


Not my experience with SSDs. 
[Edit] - w/ Play 6


----------



## peladio

Play (6) is horribly unintuitive compared to Kontakt but its load times have improved significantly with the past few updates..


----------



## jamieboo

peladio said:


> Play (6) is horribly unintuitive compared to Kontakt but its load times have improved significantly with the past few updates..


I guess it's partially dependent on what you're used to.
I am used to PLAY and have no problems, and I find Kontakt baffling!

*Edit* Your comment, Peladio, makes clear that you have experience of both, so you are in a position to make a balanced comparison. But Kontakt being by far the more prevalent platform, those that are more familiar with _it_ would no doubt find their first few minutes with PLAY confounding even without it's peculiarities.


----------



## Petrucci

I am so excited about this! Honestly I bought HOD on sale not long ago and it is amazing for this money! Yes, there are some inconsistencies in some of the patches in all sections but there are many patches there and I can find almost everything I need from an orchestra. Even WW are very useful and I like Mid mics+tiny bit of Surround mics on it a lot (I also like Flute 2 much better than Flute 1). Also Powerful System patches on strings are amazing and work fine on my old 5.1 Mac Pro. I like the sound of the library a lot and using different reverbs I can change it from quite dry to space-ish depending on my needs. Play 6 works fine, the patches load fast (the library is on SSD but it is SATA connected) and if you read the manual once you can recognize all these UB, DB, NI, SM etc abbreviations easily! So I am very excited about OPUS!


----------



## Allen Constantine

Do you guys know if they will have upgrade paths for people who own the Diamond bundles? I have a lot of their products but the one I don't have is the percussion.


----------



## SupremeFist

Salorom said:


> One real issue with Play on macOS is how it poorly handles inactive memory. The amount of ram needed to use Hollywood Orchestra has always been insanely higher than on Windows, largely because of that. I really hope EW seriously commit to providing a fix at last, as it ruins all the fun for Mac users with large templates.


How much RAM do you need? I have a mbpro with 16Gb and would want to run diamond on that. Impossible?


----------



## EwigWanderer

SupremeFist said:


> How much RAM do you need? I have a mbpro with 16Gb and would want to run diamond on that. Impossible?


16gb is enough for big excel projects not for HO diamond. 16gb is enough for example OT inspire series.


----------



## SupremeFist

EwigWanderer said:


> 16gb is enough for big excel projects not for HO diamond. 16gb is enough for example OT inspire series.


What is Excel?


----------



## EwigWanderer

SupremeFist said:


> What is Excel?


It’s a software that uses too much RAM for what it does 😊 16gb of ram is too low for HO diamond but for gold you could do well. The good thing about Kontakt libraries is the purge option.


----------



## AllanH

SupremeFist said:


> How much RAM do you need? I have a mbpro with 16Gb and would want to run diamond on that. Impossible?



Yes - that is possible, with a bit planning. I did so for two+ years. You cannot load each-and-every articulation, but if you pick one of the powerful legato patches for each instrument, you'll be able to get nearly everything in one patch. Even today, I always just start with a powerful legato patch and then figure out if I need anything else. You can always unload the parts you don't need. Stings are especially memory-hungry but here you can pick one of the simpler legato patches and the footprint drops substantially. 

For the shorts you can start with one of the e.g. 5 RR patches and finally render with the 13 RRs. HO/D is extraordinarily well-done with a huge amount of flexibility, and it's IMO worth manuvering a bit to make it fit. This may include rendering tracks from time to time.


----------



## SupremeFist

AllanH said:


> Yes - that is possible, with a bit planning. I did so for two+ years. You cannot load each-and-every articulation, but if you pick one of the powerful legato patches for each instrument, you'll be able to get nearly everything in one patch. Even today, I always just start with a powerful legato patch and then figure out if I need anything else. You can always unload the parts you don't need. Stings are especially memory-hungry but here you can pick one of the simpler legato patches and the footprint drops substantially.
> 
> For the shorts you can start with one of the e.g. 5 RR patches and finally render with the 13 RRs. HO/D is extraordinarily well-done with a huge amount of flexibility, and it's IMO worth manuvering a bit to make it fit. This may include rendering tracks from time to time.


Thanks very much, good to know!


----------



## nosse

I am very interested in hearing demos of HOD. I have heard the official demos but not too many user created ones. Would like to see what a normal user could create with it.


----------



## pmcrockett

An anecdote about Play and RAM usage: If I load my full, includes-everything Hollywood Strings template -- 23 to 38 articulations per section, including a bunch of different legatos; all mics; and both divisi positions for everything -- it's a 75 GB RAM footprint and loads from SSD in about 10 minutes.


----------



## Iswhatitis

I feel like I don’t need anymore VI libraries, I have plenty to get the job done if nothing new ever came out.


----------



## Vadium

Quantum Leap said:


> All the old issues with PLAY and our generic interface are gone.


Including a lot of timing/dynamic CC11/velocity/pitch-relative problems with individual notes in string section?

(I'm asking because attempting to understand, should I continue writing fix-patches for the current version, or may to waiting for a new version, fixed by EW)


----------



## Salorom

SupremeFist said:


> How much RAM do you need? I have a mbpro with 16Gb and would want to run diamond on that. Impossible?


Depends on your needs. For a decent template 16gb will definitely not get you far, though. Any large orchestral project using HO (one mic position) will require at least 64gb on macOS, unless you’re ok with track freezes and careful sample management.


----------



## Fleer

Maybe this Opus upgrade will be a thank you gift for all Hollywood Orchestra Diamond owners. 
Here’s hoping against odds.


----------



## El Buhdai

I just saw Quantum Leap's (isn't that Nick Phoenix?.. Sorry kinda new here) message a few pages ago. This all seems excellent. If it turns out well I'll definitely be adding the new HO to the list of plugins I buy before canceling ComposerCloud. I don't like to get wrapped up in hype just based on what people say, but it sounds pretty good and I'll be keeping an eye out.


----------



## NYC Composer

Nick Phoenix is among the absolute best at this, so if he’s involved (and I understand he is) this will be something to pay attention to.


----------



## klawire

This looks really interesting. I have HS, HB and HOW Gold versions and wonder whether there will be an upgrade path to the opus edition. Not very hopeful though since there isn't any upgrade path (that I know of) even to HO Diamond which I find somewhat ridiculous. It's cheaper to buy full HO Diamond than upgrade the three instruments that I have.


----------



## Thysmusic.com

I wonder if the previous sale on the hollywood will be the last sale now..

I was on the fence so much the last couple of weeks when it was on sale. But I decided: "I have until november on my composer cloud, why buy it now".

Maybe the new version will cost less than buying it on discount and then upgrading to the new version. I hope so.

Either way, discounts or not, I can't wait for this to come out. I really like Hollywood Orchestra in combination with the Cubase Expression Maps (those totally offset the clunky interface for me, set it up once and I don't have to look at HO from there). 

I don't think the shortcomings of HO were ever so much about the sound of the recordings (well the woodwinds maybe). Those same recordings (on the strings and brass), edited to higher standards (tighter shorts, legato lengths more consistent, etc, since it was releases other libraries have shown there's room for improvement) and with a real smooth interface around them, would kick ass. I'm still so in love with those Mancini/Bollywood portamentos in the strings!


----------



## MarcelM

well, i hope this will be a winner but iam careful nowadays. i remember when hollywood solo strings were announced and hyped to heaven, and what can i say? they dont have the quality HO has. not even close, but thats just my opinion.


----------



## JEPA

Do you recommend to buy Diamond now or to wait for Opus?


----------



## MarcelM

not sure who youre asking, but diamond is always worth it if your machine can handle it.
for me its still one of the best sounding librarys (hs,hb). even after all those years.


----------



## purple

EwigWanderer said:


> It’s a software that uses too much RAM for what it does 😊 16gb of ram is too low for HO diamond but for gold you could do well. The good thing about Kontakt libraries is the purge option.


Uses almost as much RAM as google chrome!


----------



## purple

Don't care much about the "orchestrator" (whatever the hell _that _is_...)_
But all new trombones (thank god) and all new trumpets are worth being excited about.
A whole extra violin section is great too. 
Disappointed they aren't reworking the woodwinds more. Ensemble patches are i guess nice sometimes, but almost never useful IMO. But that's OK. I won't complain too much about getting _more _patches than I had before. That never hurt anybody. I hope the reworks they did implement fix a lot of the issues with the old woodwinds, especially the smoothness of legato.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Kubler said:


> You're mischaracterizing what I wrote. I don't remember saying that I couldn't make it work. I produced several albums with HO. I said that making it work required an amount of time and upstream thinking that the generalization of certain advancements harnessed by similar, if not better-sounding libraries made useless. And that this was the reason why HO aged badly, making peple tend to turn away from it.




This is me to a T. BUT...I could easily turn back to it with a more 'modern' (quick/efficient) workflow improvement in the next edition. There is no argument these guys can capture the right tone. Just make the workflow so good that I don't have to compromise or turn to another library.


----------



## Ashermusic

Sometimes things that require a bit more effort reap greater rewards.


----------



## jamwerks

I'll be interested to hear any new Brass. HB was already pretty amazing. There is a bit too much "phasing"(?) in the cross-fades though. But probably one the most musically produced libraries ever!


----------



## Rob Elliott

Ashermusic said:


> Sometimes things that require a bit more effort reap greater rewards.


For sure - but if my client needs it 30 minutes ago and I KNOW he won't hear the difference...(hence the compromise comment). Wouldn't it be idea if workflow efficiencies were negligible so THAT decision doesn't have to be made ….

And while they are at it - my HUGE hope is they don't cut off the front side of the samples just to make them idiot proof on live playing. I'll concede, those 'live' patches are good to include for sketching but IMHO - lopping off that 'priceless' 60-200 ms of content before the top of the arc would be disappointing.

(all this talk makes me want to open up HO - after a 3 year hiatus)


----------



## MauroPantin

There's always a compromise. If you make something simple to use you take away from the flexibility. Eventually, you'll need to do something with the library that the developer decided was making it too complicated to use.

It would be amazing to get both things, though. The fast workflow with the detailed articulation sets.

More than anything, the thing I want the most is just patch consistency. The same articulation set for all instruments in each family, and I want the same CC number for dynamics all across the library. I use articulation maps to manage that stuff and every time I am writing I have to constantly switch between two different CC lanes depending on which part of the piece I am in, it's a pain in the ass.


----------



## José Herring

Rob Elliott said:


> For sure - but if my client needs it 30 minutes ago and I KNOW he won't hear the difference...(hence the compromise comment). Wouldn't it be idea if workflow efficiencies were negligible so THAT decision doesn't have to be made ….
> 
> And while they are at it - my HUGE hope is they don't cut off the front side of the samples just to make them idiot proof on live playing. I'll concede, those 'live' patches are good to include for sketching but IMHO - lopping off that 'priceless' 60-200 ms of content before the top of the arc would be disappointing.
> 
> (all this talk makes me want to open up HO - after a 3 year hiatus)


The trick is to find those few patches in each section that do work really well. The pain is that it takes a week to test all the patches to find the ones that work. The further pain is that some patches still don't work. The the further further pain is that some patches are so complicated with the various fingering keyswitches that I never did bother to find out if they actually do work. 

But, the ones that do work are glorious and oddly enough the simpler patches seem to fair better than the "powerful system, stacc, marc, slur, RR, 4 position" type patches


----------



## Rob Elliott

josejherring said:


> The trick is to find those few patches in each section that do work really well. The pain is that it takes a week to test all the patches to find the ones that work. The further pain is that some patches still don't work. The the further further pain is that some patches are so complicated with the various fingering keyswitches that I never did bother to find out if they actually do work.
> 
> But, the ones that do work are glorious and oddly enough the simpler patches seem to fair better than the "powerful system, stacc, marc, slur, RR, 4 position" type patches




hmmm. I open it up again with that in mind. Thanks.


----------



## shawnsingh

josejherring said:


> The trick is to find those few patches in each section that do work really well. The pain is that it takes a week to test all the patches to find the ones that work. The further pain is that some patches still don't work. The the further further pain is that some patches are so complicated with the various fingering keyswitches that I never did bother to find out if they actually do work.
> 
> But, the ones that do work are glorious and oddly enough the simpler patches seem to fair better than the "powerful system, stacc, marc, slur, RR, 4 position" type patches



I agree with this a lot. After choosing preferred patches and setting up expression maps, I realized that it was basically keyswitching between "playing styles" instead of micro-managing individual articulations with keyswitching. Analogy - it's like speaking natural words to make a sentence, instead of having to spell every letter of every word to make that same sentence. For me personally at least, it's a way more efficient use of keyswitches.


----------



## José Herring

Rob Elliott said:


> hmmm. I open it up again with that in mind. Thanks.



I have HS and HB. 

Some string patches are indispensable and have yet to be really duplicated by other libraries as far as I can tell. The "stacc slur" with and without port patches are some of my favorites for getting around fast. The standard sus patches are good bread and butter. The "legato" patches I don't use much any more. The timing is too hard to deal with. But, for some reason the stacc slur patches work better as "legato" patches as long as you learn to use them. 

Layer a sus patch with a library that has a solid "legato" and the results are surprising especially in tutti passages. I haven't heard much that blends as well as this library when it all comes together.

I don't know if the library is good or I just over the years learned how to use it. Found its weaknesses, supplemented that with other libraries, ect... HS has become my base string library then I add other libraries that blend with it. I guess it's one of the main reasons why I haven't hopped on other libraries now that i think about it. I judge the libraries by whether or not it will blend well with HS.

So I'm looking forward to HOOE to address the pitfalls of HO.


----------



## jamwerks

I remember thinking SCS mixed-in low behind HS patches sounded especially nice.


----------



## Rob Elliott

josejherring said:


> I have HS and HB.
> 
> Some string patches are indispensable and have yet to be really duplicated by other libraries as far as I can tell. The "stacc slur" with and without port patches are some of my favorites for getting around fast. The standard sus patches are good bread and butter. The "legato" patches I don't use much any more. The timing is too hard to deal with. But, for some reason the stacc slur patches work better as "legato" patches as long as you learn to use them.
> 
> Layer a sus patch with a library that has a solid "legato" and the results are surprising especially in tutti passages. I haven't heard much that blends as well as this library when it all comes together.
> 
> I don't know if the library is good or I just over the years learned how to use it. Found its weaknesses, supplemented that with other libraries, ect... HS has become my base string library then I add other libraries that blend with it. I guess it's one of the main reasons why I haven't hopped on other libraries now that i think about it. I judge the libraries by whether or not it will blend well with HS.
> 
> So I'm looking forward to HOOE to address the pitfalls of HO.




Sounds logical. I have never tried the 'blend' of HS and CSS but I'll give that a go (good idea on the std sus so as to not fight the 'legato'.)


----------



## Dex

MauroPantin said:


> There's always a compromise. If you make something simple to use you take away from the flexibility. Eventually, you'll need to do something with the library that the developer decided was making it too complicated to use.
> 
> It would be amazing to get both things, though. The fast workflow with the detailed articulation sets.
> 
> More than anything, the thing I want the most is just patch consistency. The same articulation set for all instruments in each family, and I want the same CC number for dynamics all across the library. I use articulation maps to manage that stuff and every time I am writing I have to constantly switch between two different CC lanes depending on which part of the piece I am in, it's a pain in the ass.


You could put a cc remapper plugin in between the midi file and the instrument.


----------



## gsilbers

there is this sentence on the press release thats a little confusing

_Producers Doug Rogers and Nick Phoenix have also reworked the original content of Hollywood Orchestra(which is required along with the expansion)_

So this is an expansion to holywood orchestra?

so this is new recordings and they remixed the hollywood series?

It was already a whole ton of articulations...

and the press release is a mouth full: eastwest quantum leap hollywood orchestra opus.
so its also the older EWQL series as well? darn...


my guess its that they are doing the ye old vienna thing with opus








Vienna Symphonic Library Opus 1


Entire Orchestra Samples , DVD Multi-Disc Set - Giga/HALion/Kontakt/EXS24 Formats




www.sweetwater.com




as a name for "light version". 

as for the orchestrator, im guessing its something like sonuscores the orchestra. step sequencers and envelope sequencers and split keyboards.


----------



## MauroPantin

Dex said:


> You could put a cc remapper plugin in between the midi file and the instrument.



I appreciate the tip, I have that going in a few places where it made sense but I had to work around a clear issue of the library, not to mention the impossibility of the engine to remap a CC and instead of having to use another plugin to do something that is rather basic. 

Spending time figuring out how to remap stuff with a plugin for a multi-timbral patch that has two patches controlling dynamics with CC1, three controlling vibrato with CC1, and one where CC1 controls the type of short articulations is not really productive.


----------



## DS_Joost

The thing with the Hollywood Orchestra is, right now we are dependend on the possibility of the the DAW we are using for whether we can change articulations or not, and how. I'm not gonna give a plug to NI for their atrocious Symphony Series ( I've defended it in the past but not any longer), but their customizable control settings should be standard across all sample libraries. But, you can change any patch to feature the articulations of choice, and you can choose however you want to trigger them. Everybody wins from that.

Let us, the composers, decide how we want to use articulations. Let us decide whether we want to use keyswitches, and which, or CCs, or program changes or anything in between. Let us layer patches on our own, and not have to think about how to work with one library or the next.

A standard is needed, greatly, and it should not be dependend on what DAW we use. Give us an option to change that on a plugin level, without workarounds, without 3rd party software or, in the case of Reaper, without any scripts.

It has been tried and proven possible to work those options inside the library itself. Developers, please take note and give us options. Please.


----------



## José Herring

gsilbers said:


> as for the orchestrator, im guessing its something like sonuscores the orchestra. step sequencers and envelope sequencers and split keyboards.



I was the most skeptical of this. Then I heard OT's Ark 3 auto orchestra and I'll be darned if that guy wasn't banging out some good stuff on the keyboard. 

So I'm hoping HOOE orchestrator will be something like that. You know you have your regular HOOE for really detailed work and your quick orchestrator HOOE when you need to bang out something in a hurry and you just need those big patches to keep you from falling behind deadline.


----------



## HardyP

MA-Simon said:


> I am very, very disapointed in East West for not offering upgrades in their sales.
> *It would cost me less to buy diamond new then to upgrade from gold to diamond*. That has always put me off. Because it shows how little EastWest cared to support current customers.


Totally correct, same thing with a kind of „complete my orchestra“-type of upgrade path... often asked for, never reacted upon.


----------



## exilio

MA-Simon said:


> I am very, very disapointed in East West for not offering upgrades in their sales.
> *It would cost me less to buy diamond new then to upgrade from gold to diamond*. That has always put me off. Because it shows how little EastWest cared to support current customers.
> 
> Before I buy anything from East West again, this needs to be adressed before this company can gain back my trust.



Hi my friend, there is one sale per year where You have 50% discount in everything including upgrade, is the one in february (valentine's day) I upgrade my orchestra with this sale.
Hope this info helps You.
Cheers


----------



## robgb

gsilbers said:


> my guess its that they are doing the ye old vienna thing with opus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vienna Symphonic Library Opus 1
> 
> 
> Entire Orchestra Samples , DVD Multi-Disc Set - Giga/HALion/Kontakt/EXS24 Formats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sweetwater.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> as a name for "light version".


I still have and use this. Nothing all that light about it.


----------



## HardyP

exilio said:


> You have 50% discount in everything including upgrade


...but never that "complete my orchestra" type of thing...


----------



## exilio

Yes, I never saw that in EW, it would be great.
Cheers



HardyP said:


> ...but never that "complete my orchestra" type of thing...


----------



## Ashermusic

Off the top of my head, I am challenged to think of even a single keyswitching orchestral library that chooses the articulations I want in the order I want, And I end by spending time reassigning them, so I am fine with using HO multi-timbrally in VE Pro with Articulation Sets in Logic Pro X.

And yes, I sell my templates.


----------



## ricoderks

nosse said:


> I am very interested in hearing demos of HOD. I have heard the official demos but not too many user created ones. Would like to see what a normal user could create with it.


Hey man!
I made this with Hollywood Orchestra diamond a couple years back:







Maybe that helps?


----------



## Geomir

ricoderks said:


> I made this with Hollywood Orchestra diamond a couple years back


Did you mean: "I gathered the musicians that recorded EWHO and they performed these 3 songs live for me?"


----------



## ricoderks

Geomir said:


> Did you mean: "I gathered the musicians that recorded EWHO and they performed these 3 songs live for me?"


Ha! I wish! Thanks for the comment


----------



## shawnsingh

ricoderks said:


> Hey man!
> I made this with Hollywood Orchestra diamond a couple years back:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that helps?




Well I understand if you don't want to, but would you possibly be willing to share a bit about how you set up mic mix and any other mix processing? This is a GREAT tone, and the first time I've heard a proper demo of Diamond. (I only have Gold).

Thanks for the great music, too, very enjoyable!


----------



## Christoph18

I honestly only hope for two things. 

1. Fixing of the legato and crossfade on the clarinets and the first flute

2. Making the legato on the strings more playable. My idea would be to put the legato on the end of the first note (rather than on the beginning of the second). You wouldn't here the legato while playing, but when playing it back the whole line would be better in time. You could even quantize it. 

But it may just be my naive amateur opinion.


----------



## ricoderks

Christoph18 said:


> I honestly only hope for two things.
> 
> 1. Fixing of the legato and crossfade on the clarinets and the first flute
> 
> 2. Making the legato on the strings more playable. My idea would be to put the legato on the end of the first note (rather than on the beginning of the second). You wouldn't here the legato while playing, but when playing it back the whole line would be better in time. You could even quantize it.
> 
> But it may just be my naive amateur opinion.


Option 1, absolutely agree!
Option 2, doubt that this could be done. For this the software must be able to look into the future. Thats the reason legato can inly be triggered on the second note i think. look at CSS. That's why there is such a big latency. You can always compensate with negative latency in your daw so you can hard quantize!

Cheers


----------



## ricoderks

shawnsingh said:


> Well I understand if you don't want to, but would you possibly be willing to share a bit about how you set up mic mix and any other mix processing? This is a GREAT tone, and the first time I've heard a proper demo of Diamond. (I only have Gold).
> 
> Thanks for the great music, too, very enjoyable!


Hey man! Thanks. Its a long time ago to remember specifically. I think 2015 or 16. But for strings i did nothing. Pretty sure about that. Brass i added surround mics besides the main. No close. Percussion ive added a lot of room and subtle close here and there. But mainly more room for brass/perc. Woodwinds are mid mics in gold. I think ive set those to de decca tree aswell with a bit of mid. Also reverbs ofcourse. Probably spaces since i did not have altiverb bavk then. Cheers!


----------



## Christoph18

ricoderks said:


> Option 1, absolutely agree!
> Option 2, doubt that this could be done. For this the software must be able to look into the future. Thats the reason legato can inly be triggered on the second note i think. look at CSS. That's why there is such a big latency. You can always compensate with negative latency in your daw so you can hard quantize!
> 
> Cheers


Thanks! I already use some negative latency. Still, it is time consuming to move notes when they aren't played legato. But I guess they are always downsides.

By the way, I really like the pieces you posted above


----------



## ricoderks

Christoph18 said:


> Thanks! I already use some negative latency. Still, it is time consuming to move notes when they aren't played legato. But I guess they are always downsides.
> 
> By the way, I really like the pieces you posted above


Thanks man! Yes i know what you mean. Maybe midi 2.0 can do this later, I dont know! But it would save some time!


----------



## jamieboo

Christoph18 said:


> 2. Making the legato on the strings more playable. My idea would be to put the legato on the end of the first note (rather than on the beginning of the second). You wouldn't here the legato while playing, but when playing it back the whole line would be better in time. You could even quantize it.
> 
> But it may just be my naive amateur opinion.



I think point 2 here is quite interesting.
When I first read it I thought Of course not! As ricoderks said that would involve the software looking into the future!
But then I thought - which may have been what you meant - when the notes are being entered there is no realtime legato. But once they're _in_ the DAW, the software effectively _would_ be able to know what's coming, because it's all in there. So some sort of coding so that the legato only triggers on playback, and therefore perhaps could trigger at the end of the first note rather than the beginning of the second.
Would that be possible I wonder?


----------



## Christoph18

jamieboo said:


> I think point 2 here is quite interesting.
> When I first read it I thought Of course not! As ricoderks said that would involve the software looking into the future!
> But then I thought - which may have been what you meant - when the notes are being entered there is no realtime legato. But once they're _in_ the DAW, the software effectively _would_ be able to know what's coming, because it's all in there. So some sort of coding so that the legato only triggers on playback, and therefore perhaps could trigger at the end of the first note rather than the beginning of the second.
> Would that be possible I wonder?


Yeah This is what I meant. I think I wasn't clear enough. Still, I think with the characterics of midi now, it might be impossible. If it is possible, you shall all thank me for starting a revolution. 😆


----------



## shawnsingh

Maybe it could work as an offline midi processor that can create new midi.


----------



## shawnsingh

I should probably clarify more. Suppose a VI could designate a few MIDI CC parameters as "internal only" and recommend user not to use those. Then in the VI, there could be a button like "start/reset MIDI transformation". Then, whenever the VI receives midi on playback, it generates an output MIDI part which can be assigned to a MIDI out which goes back to the DAW, or it can be held inside the instrument and the user can drag that midi to their DAW to insert the new MIDI.

clunky, but could still be a better workflow to allow AI and scripting to do a lot of heavy lifting for realistic performances...


----------



## Thysmusic.com

You can't send information from the next note during the previous note. But you can run a script on midi that enters information about the next note into the metadata of an information package, if midi is extended like that.


----------



## Robert_G

Anyone who owns the current HW Orchestra and thinks they are going to get a mathmatically sensible upgrade price on this is living in a pipe dream....lol.


----------



## cqd

Robert_G said:


> Anyone who owns the current HW Orchestra and thinks they are going to get a mathmatically sensible upgrade price on this is living in a pipe dream....lol.



Ah don't say that..
I figure eastwest have listened to their customer base and as well as a tidied up articulation list, there will be a reasonable upgrade price..


----------



## Mystic

Robert_G said:


> Anyone who owns the current HW Orchestra and thinks they are going to get a mathmatically sensible upgrade price on this is living in a pipe dream....lol.


All you have to do is wait a week and it will be on a 60% off sale.


----------



## dcoscina

Mystic said:


> All you have to do is wait a week and it will be on a 60% off sale.


They make really good products but they are a funny bunch there.


----------



## Robert_G

Mystic said:


> All you have to do is wait a week and it will be on a 60% off sale.



And when they do that, the upgrade will be $50 more than buying a new copy of it.


----------



## mcalis

Just popping in to say that I think we should adapt HOOPUS, as coined by NoamL here, as the official abbreviation for this expansion xD.


----------



## ned3000

+1 on HOOPUS. It's unlikely to be confused with other acronyms, and it's fun to say.

As far as the library goes, I really hope they are smart about modernizing the articulation switching. I'm a huge fan of the sound of the brass and strings, and they're pretty versatile but setting up a template is a project. I did it all in Cubase with expression maps switching to different MIDI channels within Play instances but it was a lot of work and making changes is cumbersome. Also, I have 50 Play instances loaded w/ 10-16 instruments each, so probably like 700 instruments. I have plenty of RAM for that but there's some CPU overhead w/ Play (even with no notes) so idle CPU usage is at ~60%.

Not sure about the new content. I guess they recorded new strings but not woodwinds. Puzzling choice because everyone seems to like the strings but not the winds. At one point I tried to make an all EW template but had to bring in other WW libraries. I seem to remember that the legatos on the WWs were super clunky. I think I did see that they are "reworking" the woodwinds but it's unclear whether that will bring them up to the quality of the strings/brass.


----------



## mcalis

ned3000 said:


> +1 on HOOPUS. It's unlikely to be confused with other acronyms, and it's fun to say.
> 
> As far as the library goes, I really hope they are smart about modernizing the articulation switching. I'm a huge fan of the sound of the brass and strings, and they're pretty versatile but setting up a template is a project. I did it all in Cubase with expression maps switching to different MIDI channels within Play instances but it was a lot of work and making changes is cumbersome. Also, I have 50 Play instances loaded w/ 10-16 instruments each, so probably like 700 instruments. I have plenty of RAM for that but there's some CPU overhead w/ Play (even with no notes) so idle CPU usage is at ~60%.
> 
> Not sure about the new content. I guess they recorded new strings but not woodwinds. Puzzling choice because everyone seems to like the strings but not the winds. At one point I tried to make an all EW template but had to bring in other WW libraries. I seem to remember that the legatos on the WWs were super clunky. I think I did see that they are "reworking" the woodwinds but it's unclear whether that will bring them up to the quality of the strings/brass.


There are new woodwinds in HOOPUS, just not solo instruments but rather ensembles. I'm modestly optimistic that some reprogramming of the legatos (if they're doing that, it's not quite clear to me) could bring the existing woodwinds up to snuff.


----------



## X-Bassist

I think many are assuming this will better than the original. I would argue it’s been so long since HO that it would be a miracle if they were remotely similar. Could be better, but there is no indication. And I have more than one library that had a great first addition, but dropped the ball on the followup(s).


----------



## NoamL

X-Bassist said:


> I think many are assuming this will better than the original. I would argue it’s been so long since HO that it would be a miracle if they were remotely similar. Could be better, but there is no indication. And I have more than one library that had a great first addition, but dropped the ball on the followup(s).



So far they've revealed it includes an all new alternate Vln I section (18 players), all new Tpt a2 and Tbn a2, and 3 new woodwind pre-orchestrated sections. Plus, it's hard to see how that adds up to 200+GB of samples, so there could be even more. Maybe some of the new samples are reworks of the original recordings.

HWS is still really strong once you get to grips with using it and there are parts of HWB that have stood the test of 10+ brass library successors as well.


----------



## mcalis

NoamL said:


> So far they've revealed it includes an all new alternate Vln I section (18 players), all new Tpt a2 and Tbn a2, and 3 new woodwind pre-orchestrated sections. Plus, it's hard to see how that adds up to 200+GB of samples, so there could be even more. Maybe some of the new samples are reworks of the original recordings.
> 
> HWS is still really strong once you get to grips with using it and there are parts of HWB that have stood the test of 10+ brass library successors as well.


Where did you get the 200GB number from? Last I checked it was ~50GB of new recordings (which, divided over 5 mics is about 10GB of new stuff... and that might cover all the new things you mentioned).


----------



## NoamL

from here - https://www.musictech.net/news/eastwest-hollywood-orchestra-opus-edition-hollywood-orchestrator/

Maybe that includes the new "baked together" patches in Orchestrator? not super clear


----------



## mcalis

Thanks very much for the link @NoamL I hadn't seen that article before.

"The Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition will pack a whopping 230GB of new recordings and powerful new features." sounds pretty unambiguous to me... but, I am not yet going to get my hopes up.

As much as I like EW's products, I haven't forgotten how Hollywood Choirs was presented to have 13 microphones, which is technically true (as in, they used 13 mics to record it) but what you got were mixed down mic positions. Not saying there was anything malicious behind that, it's just marketing talk and I consider it well within the realm of possibility that this might be more of a marketing number too. If it then turns out that there is actually _that _much new content, it'll be a pleasant surprise.

Unless @Quantum Leap will be so kind to clarify before the release


----------



## Eptesicus

Quite excited by this. If the overhaul truly makes this as easy to work with as the libraries I'm predominately working with now (CSS, JXL brass) then i can see this working its way back into my template (well, more so than it is now. I still use the percussion as its the only orchestral percussion library i have).


----------



## Eptesicus

NoamL said:


> So far they've revealed it includes an all new alternate Vln I section (18 players), all new Tpt a2 and Tbn a2, and 3 new woodwind pre-orchestrated sections. Plus, it's hard to see how that adds up to 200+GB of samples, so there could be even more. Maybe some of the new samples are reworks of the original recordings.
> 
> HWS is still really strong once you get to grips with using it and there are parts of HWB that have stood the test of 10+ brass library successors as well.



I'm glad they are re-doing the trombones, brass wise, as i think generally that was HWB's weakest link.

They are going to have to do an amazing job to rival the trombones in JXL Brass though.


----------



## jamieboo

Just checking if there has been any new information about this?
As far as I can tell there's been nothing really since the announcement 3 months ago - and now, I tentatively presume, we're getting quite close to a possible release?


----------



## AndyP

jamieboo said:


> ... - and now, I tentatively presume, we're getting quite close to a possible release?


That would be great! I just hope the high expectations are not disappointed. But I find it very difficult to imagine that.


----------



## MauroPantin

I'm waiting for this one, too. My experience with EW has been that one day they just release stuff, there's hardly any trailers or teasers. Fall lasts 3 months, so it might be close or not so much. I've been looking periodically and there's been no other new info as far as I know.


----------



## cqd

I just know it's going to be within a week of CSW..


----------



## Vadium

cqd said:


> I just know it's going to be within a week of CSW..


sorry, what is CSW?


----------



## Beans

Cinematic Studio Woodwinds!


----------



## Casiquire

Vadium said:


> sorry, what is CSW?


How i admire you for clearly not being addicted to this forum. Please. Save yourself now while you still can. Run. Don't look back!


----------



## cqd

Casiquire said:


> How i admire you for clearly not being addicted to this forum. Please. Save yourself now while you still can. Run. Don't look back!



Pfftt.. newb..


----------



## sdnoir

Quantum Leap said:


> Hi Everyone! Keep in mind, we’ve been doing this for a long time. Longer than anyone else. We don’t care about one upping anyone. We all learn from each other and we just try and make the best stuff we can. It’s not easy. We are composers and producers. There are a few reasons we decided to do an expansion. I own many of the competing orchestral libraries and found that there are many positives, but they all have weaknesses as well. We all use multiple libraries to get some variety in tones. I end up using HO more than anything else in my template, but I recognize there are some things that need to be addressed in HO. Our first priority was to re-work the current library.
> 
> 1. The biggest problem with HO is the ridiculous amount of patches. HO has some string patches that only the best computers could handle at the time. Even if we had used Kontakt, that would have been the case. To date, no one has made such deeply sampled string legato patches with 5 dynamics, multiple string positions, vibrato and non vibrato. Not many users are using these mega patches from the original release. They are stellar, though. The new expansion significantly improves and adds to the current HO. The new interface allows control that you don’t have now. It is Laser focused on orchestral instruments. Many of the old patches are gone (but you’ll still have a legacy version to access them). And you will be using the bigger patches, which will run easily.
> 
> 2. With the reprogramming and new interface, Hollywood Strings is a really strong collection. So the question is, what do you do to take it even further? We wanted to embrace what HO is all about. It is a big orchestra, so we decided to stay in that realm. HO Opus has an all new 1st violins section. It doesn’t replace the old one. It’s an alternate, like you would use in a different library. The players are all new and all from the upper echelons of the film score world. The legato is groundbreaking. The attitude is a bit different, there are some different articulations and there is more focus and precision. But it is 18 violins so it’s lush. Shawn Murphy also made some tweaks to some of the close and mid mics. The 18 violins alone took one week to record. We wanted to be able to point to this and say “this is what violins should be like”.
> 
> 3. I have never found better French horns than we have in HO, so we chose to focus on doing all new 2 trombones and all new 2 trumpets. These new samples are comprehensive and all about extreme dynamics, comprehensive articulations and precision. But really this was all about getting the right players.
> 
> 4. After re-working them, we stand behind the original woodwinds. However, solo woodwinds are inherently problematic because cross fading dynamics and vibrato can never be done right with a solo instrument. It’s a real problem. There is always a small compromise. You can only fix it, if you accept that the sound will be inferior (close mics, phase aligned etc.). So we went in a different direction. We sampled 3 small woodwind sections. And they are fantastic!!
> 
> There‘s more, but I wanted to give you an idea of what we did. All the old issues with PLAY and our generic interface are gone. And the interface has one new feature that is unique and exactly the kind of thing that you’ve been waiting for. And there is the orchestrator software, which is really useful even if you are an advanced composer.



Dear Nick and team,

I have been a huge fan of your products since the Platinum Orchestra days; in fact I still use some of those effects patches in my template . My current template has around 115 GB of HO and choir patches spread out over a 2019 and a 2013 MacPro--in addition to Kontakt patches. Due to PLAY's 64 GB RAM usage limits, though, I am unable incorporate the HO Percussion library at this time (I had to purchase Cineperc, specifically due to this limitation).The 2019 MacPro has 384 GB of RAM and plenty of power to run the whole template....I would very much like to see PLAY's 64 GB RAM ceiling/limit disappear by the time these new expansions are released. If so, I will definitely be buying them. If not--well, I won't be able to use them. With computers able to employ 128GB of RAM or more over the last ten years+, I can't imagine why such a limit would still exist.

I do utilize the "powerful system" legato patches, as well as divisi in this template (with VEP). I like having all these options at my fingertips. I do not wish to freeze tracks or remove patches from my template--or find other "workarounds", such as employing yet another computer. In my view, by now the software should be ready to take advantage of the power offered by modern computers.

So I am wondering: when will this 64 GB RAM limit be overcome? I have been assured by your tech support team that this is a priority since last November. I was even given a rough timeframe of six months--yet as of now, it seems there is still no ETA. Am I dreaming to assume that this will ever actually be addressed?

I hope my request is not met with any hostility. I truly cherish the HO series and admire all the hard work you and your team have put into it. It is a stunning achievement, and I hope I will have good cause to purchase the forthcoming additions to the series.

Respectfully,
SD


----------



## Audio Birdi

sdnoir said:


> Dear Nick and team,
> 
> I have been a huge fan of your products since the Platinum Orchestra days; in fact I still use some of those effects patches in my template . My current template has around 115 GB of HO and choir patches spread out over a 2019 and a 2013 MacPro--in addition to Kontakt patches. Due to PLAY's 64 GB RAM usage limits, though, I am unable incorporate the HO Percussion library at this time (I had to purchase Cineperc, specifically due to this limitation).The 2019 MacPro has 384 GB of RAM and plenty of power to run the whole template....I would very much like to see PLAY's 64 GB RAM ceiling/limit disappear by the time these new expansions are released. If so, I will definitely be buying them. If not--well, I won't be able to use them. With computers able to employ 128GB of RAM or more over the last ten years+, I can't imagine any why such a limit would still exist.
> 
> I do utilize the "powerful system" legato patches, as well as divisi in this template (with VEP). I like having all these options at my fingertips. I do not wish to freeze tracks or remove patches from my template--or find other "workarounds", such as employing yet another computer. In my view, by now the software should be ready to take advantage of the power offered by modern computers.
> 
> So I am wondering: when will this 64 GB RAM limit be overcome? I have been assured by your tech support team that this is a priority since last November. I was even given a rough timeframe of six months--yet as of now, it seems there is still no ETA. Am I dreaming to assume that this will ever actually be addressed?
> 
> I hope my request is not met with any hostility. I truly cherish the HO series and admire all the hard work you and your team have put into it. It is a stunning achievement, and I hope I will have good cause to purchase the forthcoming additions to the series.
> 
> Respectfully,
> SD


Aaah that makes sense now! Didn't realize there was a 64gb RAM limit for PLAY!


----------



## Kent

Audio Birdi said:


> Aaah that makes sense now! Didn't realize there was a 64gb RAM limit for PLAY!


Yeah I actually have been having some issues running Play myself on my new rig (128GB RAM) and just got a message from their support staff about this issue.

Very frustrating—it used to be that Play was best for computers 5 years in the future, but now it's best for computers 5 years in the past. Womp womp. I hope they fix it soon, so I can use their stuff...


----------



## pmcrockett

Is Play's 64 GB RAM limit a Mac specific thing? I haven't attempted it in the context of an actual real world project, but I just loaded 80+ GB (on Windows) in Play. Play's RAM use indicator in the bottom right says 83582 MB. System RAM use according to Reaper is 111044 MB. It seems stable, I haven't gotten error messages, and I can trigger any of the samples I've loaded.


----------



## Rasoul Morteza

Good to know that it requires the original HO. Although if it's all new recordings then I'm interested in seeing what it actually is... and why it requires the original HO in the first place.


----------



## Kent

pmcrockett said:


> Is Play's 64 GB RAM limit a Mac specific thing?


They did not indicate that to me, but it very well may be. They said it only happens "on some systems," whatever that means.


----------



## Ashermusic

kmaster said:


> They did not indicate that to me, but it very well may be. They said it only happens "on some systems," whatever that means.




It means what it says. I have always been bewildered that sometimes people seem to encounter issues with more powerful systems than I do on my less powerful system.


----------



## TGV

Ashermusic said:


> It means what it says. I have always been bewildered that sometimes people seem to encounter issues with more powerful systems than I do on my less powerful system.


Multi-threading can do that: on slow systems with a single CPU, threads behave differently than on a slow multi CPU or on a fast single CPU, or on a fast multi-CPU system. So if there's a minute chance that under some specific condition a memory corruption occurs, or a lock doesn't get released, etc., powerful systems (which are often driven a bit harder) can exhibit problems you won't see on lesser systems. But the reverse can be the case as well. Software can be really finicky.


----------



## José Herring

Ashermusic said:


> It means what it says. I have always been bewildered that sometimes people seem to encounter issues with more powerful systems than I do on my less powerful system.


I know right? My DAW which is still on an older machine still out performs what I'm seeing people with much faster machines doing. Then, some dude the other day was beating the pants off of everybody with Play and HS on a 2009 mac and 7200 HD. What's up with the wild variations in performance? Makes me wonder. 

I know my old DAW Intel machine has a near zero DPC latency. I mean I can't even see the green bars every time I test it. Maybe that's more of a factor than I've given credit to in spite of watching Rgames' hour long explanation of real time audio.


----------



## Audio Birdi

pmcrockett said:


> Is Play's 64 GB RAM limit a Mac specific thing? I haven't attempted it in the context of an actual real world project, but I just loaded 80+ GB (on Windows) in Play. Play's RAM use indicator in the bottom right says 83582 MB. System RAM use according to Reaper is 111044 MB. It seems stable, I haven't gotten error messages, and I can trigger any of the samples I've loaded.


I hackitoshed with 64gb RAM, i knew I was hitting the limit when trying to get every single instrument loaded inside PLAY just to test it out, but once the RAM neared 55gb, samples would be classed as "missing" and not load at all.

I used an intesnive Davinci Resolve Fusion Project to test RAM limits otherwise and it gobbled up the full 64GB no problem.

Windows has been fine going past 55GB of RAM for PLAY-only. So it may very well be a Mac thing, asked a friend with a proper Trashcan MP to load my monster template and they had 96gb overall RAM... once they hit 55GB... same thing happened.


----------



## Pablocrespo

I have problems with stormdrum 3 (when lots of patches loaded, cpu goes to the roof and renders DAW or VEP unusable), EW has acknowledged that it happens with powefull systems due to some pitchshift algo, or something like that. They won´t fix it.

So I think as you say play has a grudge with powerful systems?


----------



## Audio Birdi

Pablocrespo said:


> I have problems with stormdrum 3 (when lots of patches loaded, cpu goes to the roof and renders DAW or VEP unusable), EW has acknowledged that it happens with powefull systems due to some pitchshift algo, or something like that. They won´t fix it.
> 
> So I think as you say play has a grudge with powerful systems?


Exact same issue, it happens in Windows rather than MacOS I think?

I tested the same SD3 template on 3 different computers, even with all patches loaded with 1 mic position, no matter how powerful or non-powerful the system, SD3 freezes up completely.


----------



## Jamus

I don't have Hollywood Percussion. Will I still be able to upgrade the other libraries?

I think this is a fantastic thing. I like the sounds in the HW libraries, it's just that the program is so, so bad. I wish also they would make play more modern. I want to be able to assign which ever CCs I have my controller set to, not have to flip through the manual to remember which CC does what lol


----------



## Pablocrespo

Audio Birdi said:


> Exact same issue, it happens in Windows rather than MacOS I think?
> 
> I tested the same SD3 template on 3 different computers, even with all patches loaded with 1 mic position, no matter how powerful or non-powerful the system, SD3 freezes up completely.



Yeah, they know about it and won´t do anything, I went back and forth with their support til they stopped responding, between this and spaces upgrade path I am never buying EW again, wish I could sell their products, but...if they know it´s flawed it´s obvious why they don´t allow resales.


----------



## I like music

Sorry if I've missed the obvious here but do we have a release date?


----------



## John R Wilson

I like music said:


> Sorry if I've missed the obvious here but do we have a release date?



Wish we did but still no release date yet.


----------



## Geomir

John R Wilson said:


> Wish we did but still no release date yet.


Any information about owners of EWHO Gold? Will the OPUS have a Gold version as well?

(sorry if I missed that in the previous 13 pages)


----------



## John R Wilson

Geomir said:


> Any information about owners of EWHO Gold? Will the OPUS have a Gold version as well?
> 
> (sorry if I missed that in the previous 13 pages)



I don't think they have released any more information on it yet.


----------



## Geomir

John R Wilson said:


> I don't think they have released any more information on it yet.


Thanks for letting me know! So we can only wait!


----------



## doctoremmet

John R Wilson said:


> I don't think they have released any more information on it yet.


Good one. I may wanna upgrade (meaning: buy full version) to Diamond if Gold won’t get the extra OPUS stuff...


----------



## John R Wilson

doctoremmet said:


> Good one. I may wanna upgrade (meaning: buy full version) to Diamond if Gold won’t get the extra OPUS stuff...



Hopefully we will know some more soon!! Almost September now so might hear something more about it then.


----------



## Beans

Fingers crossed we'll hear something soon, as this announcement has put me in a holding pattern on a few purchases. I want to pick up VSL Synchron-ized Woodwinds and Synchon Strings 1 (or SYized Dimension Strings 1), but that's potential HOOPUS budget completely wiped out. I'm hurting a bit (a lot) after the Strezov sales and buying a Kawai ES8.

With that said, I've put EWHO back into my template and am really pleased after having ignored it for a few years.


----------



## Zamenhof

Beans said:


> ... but that's potential HOOPUS budget completely wiped out. I'm hurting a bit (a lot) after the Strezov sales and buying a Kawai ES8.



I'm in the exactly same boat as you. When I heard about HOOPUS, I put other potential investments on hold. And yes, then the Strezov sale came along and ruined that plan... But now I'm ready for HOOPUS with my fingers crossed that it will live up to the hype. A hype that has been surprisingly restrained so far. Probably due to the radio silence from EW the last couple of months.

I must admit that I have struggled a bit with PLAY and my current HO Gold. But I intent to put in an effort this time, and if Hollywood Orchestrator can give me a helping hand, I'll gladly accept it.

Kind regards
Peter


----------



## GMusic

Maybe this was already addressed, but, if you do NOT have Hollywood Orchestra, but instead have all the individual components or just 1 of them, how does upgrade work then?


----------



## nolotrippen

GMusic said:


> Maybe this was already addressed, but, if you do NOT have Hollywood Orchestra, but instead have all the individual components or just 1 of them, how does upgrade work then?


good question


----------



## Ashermusic

Here’s an idea, maybe wait until a release date is announced to speculate?

Crazy, I know.


----------



## Chungus

Ashermusic said:


> Here’s an idea, maybe wait until a release date is announced to speculate?
> 
> Crazy, I know.


What madness is this? Are you going to suggest we stop wondering what strings library to get, next?


----------



## Ashermusic

Chungus said:


> What madness is this? Are you going to suggest we stop wondering what strings library to get, next?



Sorry, I lost my head for a minute.


----------



## cqd

GMusic said:


> Maybe this was already addressed, but, if you do NOT have Hollywood Orchestra, but instead have all the individual components or just 1 of them, how does upgrade work then?



I think I saw it somewhere that the upgrade would only be from the full orchestra.. and I've a feeling it was only diamond..
I could have just imagined it too though..


----------



## NoamL

@cqd yes the announcement was phrased that way. It also said HOOPUS would be available thru the Cloud so that's how I'm planning to check it out, with a 1 month subscription when it releases, then assess whether to buy it. If it even CAN be bought standalone...

The Cloud is a great thing, but as for planning a buy and upgrade path, your guess is as good as anyone's... EastWest's upgrade policies are, to use a John Williams Vocabulary Word, antediluvian. Still waiting for the "Upgrade" from Spaces1->Spaces2 to become cheaper than if I pretended I didn't own Spaces at all! 

Also, as far as I could figure out last time I went on their site a few months ago, there is not an upgrade/discount path from owning one HWO component to getting HWO Diamond Complete. Don't quote me on that...


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

NoamL said:


> Still waiting for the "Upgrade" from Spaces1->Spaces2 to become cheaper than if I pretended I didn't own Spaces at all!


I remember I wanted to upgrade Brass Gold to Brass Diamond and and it was cheaper for me to buy HO Diamond (I dont own half of the product). 

Absolutely ridiculous


----------



## GMusic

cqd said:


> I think I saw it somewhere that the upgrade would only be from the full orchestra.. and I've a feeling it was only diamond..
> I could have just imagined it too though..



I suppose the exact upgrade options haven't been revealed yet. AFAIK Orchestra is just Strings, Brass, Percussion, and Woodwinds into one package. I'd hope they would honor owners of all 3 as honorary Orchestra owners. We shall see. I think (hope) EW will be accommodating.


----------



## José Herring

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I remember I wanted to upgrade Brass Gold to Brass Diamond and and it was cheaper for me to buy HO Diamond (I dont own half of the product).
> 
> Absolutely ridiculous


Nah, not really. HO went on sale and then stayed on sale. God bless 'em. 

I too was looking at just upgrading my HS+HB gold to Diamond. For few dollars more I could get the entire orchestra . No brainer. Now I'm set up for HOOPUS.


----------



## Frederick

I had bought EWHO Diamond just a few weeks before the OPUS announcement. Considering the steep learning curve of EWHO and the big changes to how it's going to be controlled, I decided to not use it yet and wait for the OPUS edition. So I've only checked out how some of the patches sound - gorgeous! 

I think they promised us occasional updates on their progress when they gave their much appreciated explanation of what the OPUS edition would contain here on the forum: e.g. new workflow, new woodwind ensembles, new first strings next to the old, new 'killer' legato, new dedicated player with a hint there even might be a purge option. That kind of info just makes you want to learn more about it.

It's been four months now...


----------



## José Herring

Frederick said:


> I had bought EWHO Diamond just a few weeks before the OPUS announcement. Considering the steep learning curve of EWHO and the big changes to how it's going to be controlled, I decided to not use it yet and wait for the OPUS edition. So I've only checked out how some of the patches sound - gorgeous!
> 
> I think they promised us occasional updates on their progress when they gave their much appreciated explanation of what the OPUS edition would contain here on the forum: e.g. new workflow, new woodwind ensembles, new first strings next to the old, new 'killer' legato, new dedicated player with a hint there even might be a purge option. That kind of info just makes you want to learn more about it.
> 
> It's been four months now...


If I remember correctly I think all the old patches will be available with the new patches and trust me HOOPUS won't have everything that Diamond has. If it's anything like EWQLSO-XP editions it will work in conjunction with the original patches and some of the original patches won't be replaced or reworked. 

So it wouldn't hurt you to get familiar with it now. There are some hidden patches in HO that will be hard to replace.


----------



## Frederick

José Herring said:


> If I remember correctly I think all the old patches will be available with the new patches and trust me HOOPUS won't have everything that Diamond has. If it's anything like EWQLSO-XP editions it will work in conjunction with the original patches and some of the original patches won't be replaced or reworked.
> 
> So it wouldn't hurt you to get familiar with it now. There are some hidden patches in HO that will be hard to replace.



Hm. You're probably right. Actually I think they said something that supports your theory.

I've been working on Adagio for Strings (Barber) and Rue's Farewell (James Newton Howard) with SSO to get a better understanding of string voicing and for learning how to work with long articulations. I've recently added a Century Strings version. I should try a EWHO version as well. At least I would take matters in my own hands instead of the whole waiting for them thing.


----------



## José Herring

Frederick said:


> Hm. You're probably right. Actually I think they said something that supports your theory.
> 
> I've been working on Adagio for Strings (Barber) and Rue's Farewell (James Newton Howard) with SSO to get a better understanding of string voicing and for learning how to work with long articulations. I've recently added a Century Strings version. I should try a EWHO version as well. At least I would take matters in my own hands instead of the whole waiting for them thing.


Cool. Would love to hear them when you're done.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

@Frederick I did the same myself, but have delved into having a play with it (and reading the manuals) The only thing I have held off on is building a full template as if HOOPUS changes too much it will all be borked and I'll have to start again - unfortunately I haven't been able to find any HO templates for Reaper which would make life easier. 😂

@José Herring "hidden patches"? 🤔


----------



## Audio Birdi

For those that have HO Gold / Diamond and bought it as a full orchestra, is it an all-in-one licence or are the ilok licences split into 4 sections? I have them separately so wondered what a new bundle purchase was classed as licence-wise.


----------



## José Herring

StarfireBlack said:


> @José Herring "hidden patches"? 🤔



Not hidden per se but patches so far down the list that it probably took me 3 years to finally get to them. Buried under about 4 or 5 patches that were of no use.


----------



## Beans

Audio Birdi said:


> For those that have HO Gold / Diamond and bought it as a full orchestra, is it an all-in-one licence or are the ilok licences split into 4 sections? I have them separately so wondered what a new bundle purchase was classed as licence-wise.



They're separate for me in iLok. They were purchased as the Hollywood Orchestra Diamond bundle that included strings, brass, woodwinds, and percussion.


----------



## José Herring

Audio Birdi said:


> For those that have HO Gold / Diamond and bought it as a full orchestra, is it an all-in-one licence or are the ilok licences split into 4 sections? I have them separately so wondered what a new bundle purchase was classed as licence-wise.





Audio Birdi said:


> For those that have HO Gold / Diamond and bought it as a full orchestra, is it an all-in-one licence or are the ilok licences split into 4 sections? I have them separately so wondered what a new bundle purchase was classed as licence-wise.



Yes.

And I couldn't use my Gold Templates and open up Diamond patches. Major bummer. Having to rebuild my templates. Sucks


----------



## cqd

José Herring said:


> And I couldn't use my Gold Templates and open up Diamond patches. Major bummer. Having to rebuild my templates. Sucks



Life is hard..


----------



## José Herring

cqd said:


> Life is hard..


Finally somebody who gets me.


----------



## I like music

I am desperately hoping for a proper purge function. This is exciting stuff regardless!


----------



## Lewis Emblack

The total radio silence is a meanie move though 😂 Suppose we are all so used to promises that the world will never be the same that the complete opposite is infuriatingly enticing 😜


----------



## I like music

StarfireBlack said:


> The total radio silence is a meanie move though 😂 Suppose we are all so used to promises that the world will never be the same that the complete opposite is infuriatingly enticing 😜


I have a feeling they just forgot they'd said they'd release this.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I think they must be holding it back until they release Play Pro......


----------



## Lewis Emblack

There is a feeling there must be something else to this...whether it is a new Play version or that it is a total overhaul.

....you watch, they did just forget 😂


----------



## Ashermusic

JTB said:


> After seeing this thread I thought I would load up Play and rip into a legato patch for the fist time in probably three years. I just realised that the legato patches in HS are not velocity sensitive. This, hopefully will be addressed in the HOOE expansion.



Perhaps, but I doubt it. That was a design decision by Nick and TJ based, I presume, on how they wanted it to behave, and we all know how good they are.


----------



## dcoscina

Loaded some Diamond HS... nice. I haven't used them in ages. I bought HO Diamond years ago when I had loads of money and impulse buying issues. Seldom have used it however. Loaded the brass. Meh. I prefer Berlin Brass or CSB. But I will be interested in what Opus brings to the table... whenever that will be.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

dcoscina said:


> Loaded some Diamond HS... nice. I haven't used them in ages. I bought HO Diamond years ago when I had loads of money and impulse buying issues. Seldom have used it however. Loaded the brass. Meh. I prefer Berlin Brass or CSB. But I will be interested in what Opus brings to the table... whenever that will be.


Did you check the horns in Hollywood Brass? Many people like them very much.


----------



## gst98

Yes the French Horns legato is amazing, but not a fan of the trombones. The tone of the trombones in the Symphonic Orchestra is amazing so I hope the new trombones sound similar.


----------



## cqd

The tone of the trombones in the NISS brass is really nice..


----------



## Petrucci

Ashermusic said:


> Perhaps, but I doubt it. That was a design decision by Nick and TJ based, I presume, on how they wanted it to behave, and we all know how good they are.



But legato patches are actually velocity sensitive in HS - at low velocities It's portamento and going higher the transition are faster. At least in powerful system patches. One of the best long strings on the market IMHO.


----------



## dcoscina

hbjdk said:


> Did you check the horns in Hollywood Brass? Many people like them very much.


I did but they weren't doing anything for me today. But sometimes, I do like their sound. Really depends on the kind of music I'm writing. They don't work for concert music in my experience. Film stuff, which they were intended for, not bad. I just find at the top of their dynamic range they are almost blaring. As in straining...


----------



## Jose7822

Today I got an email from EW offering a Composer Cloud discount in order to get Opus and the new Orchestrator for the cheapest price. The problem is, we don’t know much about either product. There’s no release date, we don’t know the exact content, nor how the Orchestrator works, no demos, etc. How am I supposed to make a purchasing decision here when I don’t have the full scoop?

It says it’s a limited time offer, btw.


----------



## I like music

Jose7822 said:


> Today I got an email from EW offering a Composer Cloud discount in order to get Opus and the new Orchestrator for the cheapest price. The problem is, we don’t know much about either product. There’s no release date, we don’t know the exact content, nor how the Orchestrator works, no demos, etc. How am I supposed to make a purchasing decision here when I don’t have the full scoop?
> 
> It says it’s a limited time offer, btw.


Interesting! So they are tying that to CC only or did it also mention owners of the orchestra? 

Wonder if we'll get more info before the time limit. What end date did they mention?


----------



## dcoscina

I wish EW would provide an update on an ETA- doesn't have to be specific, just like "hey it's coming around November"... Fall is such a generalization. I am eager to hear what they have come up with.


----------



## Jose7822

I like music said:


> Interesting! So they are tying that to CC only or did it also mention owners of the orchestra?
> 
> Wonder if we'll get more info before the time limit. What end date did they mention?



Opus is not only tied to their cloud service, it will also sell as a separate product and will have an upgrade pricing for current users of Hollywood Orchestra. Whether you are required to have the Diamond edition, idk. But, going by past EW releases, they usually start with the Diamond edition and later release the Gold editions. Given that we have been informed of the size of the Opus expansion (as in, they haven’t mentioned two separate sizes), it sounds like this will be the case.

As for when the limited offer expires, they didn’t mention. The email basically took me to their current Composer Cloud page (this link below):






DAW Plugins: Orchestral Instruments, Drums & More | EastWest


Explore EastWest's award winning VST plugins & discover why our virtual instruments are used by professional musicians, producers, engineers & more.




www.soundsonline.com


----------



## I like music

Jose7822 said:


> Opus is not only tied to their cloud service, it will also sell as a separate product and will have an upgrade pricing for current users of Hollywood Orchestra. Whether you are required to have the Diamond edition, idk. But, going by past EW releases, they usually start with the Diamond edition and later release the Gold editions. Given that we have been informed of the size of the Opus expansion (as in, they haven’t mentioned two separate sizes), it sounds like this will be the case.
> 
> As for when the limited offer expires, they didn’t mention. The email basically took me to their current Composer Cloud page (this link below):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DAW Plugins: Orchestral Instruments, Drums & More | EastWest
> 
> 
> Explore EastWest's award winning VST plugins & discover why our virtual instruments are used by professional musicians, producers, engineers & more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soundsonline.com


Thank you for the information! I have Gold and would be happy with a Gold version! Really keen to see how they structure it.


----------



## doctoremmet

I like music said:


> Thank you for the information! I have Gold and would be happy with a Gold version! Really keen to see how they structure it.


I’m in exactly the same boat. Part of me wants to get Diamond 60% off - just to make sure I’m Opus “ready”. But ratio prohibits me. Something in me protests... why is an entire new product cheaper than the upgrade? Why don’t they just provide clear upgrade path info upfront? Why don’t I just wait for Infinite Strings, spend my money with a developer who actually does free updates and just abandon EWHO/Opus... but yeah...


----------



## Markrs

Jose7822 said:


> Opus is not only tied to their cloud service, it will also sell as a separate product and will have an upgrade pricing for current users of Hollywood Orchestra. Whether you are required to have the Diamond edition, idk. But, going by past EW releases, they usually start with the Diamond edition and later release the Gold editions. Given that we have been informed of the size of the Opus expansion (as in, they haven’t mentioned two separate sizes), it sounds like this will be the case.
> 
> As for when the limited offer expires, they didn’t mention. The email basically took me to their current Composer Cloud page (this link below):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DAW Plugins: Orchestral Instruments, Drums & More | EastWest
> 
> 
> Explore EastWest's award winning VST plugins & discover why our virtual instruments are used by professional musicians, producers, engineers & more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soundsonline.com



it's would be a good thing if it is separate from HO (though you require it) rather than bundling HO into it as this means you won't have the "new being cheaper than the upgrade price problem" that is a real issue with EW. This way it is probably safe to get EW Diamond (which I have been tempted with for some time) and then buy Opus separately rather than upgrade.


----------



## I like music

doctoremmet said:


> I’m in exactly the same boat. Part of me wants to get Diamond 60% off - just to make sure I’m Opus “ready”. But ratio prohibits me. Something in me protests... why is an entire new product cheaper than the upgrade? Why don’t they just provide clear upgrade path info upfront? Why don’t I just wait for Infinite Strings, spend my money with a developer who actually does free updates and just abandon EWHO/Opus... but yeah...


Hah! There must (MUST) be method to their madness...


----------



## Markrs

just to say I have Composer Cloud so I will probably wait to get it with that and see what I think, after all HO Diamond will go on sale again at 60%


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Wait a minute, Thomas Jacob Bergersen is not a producer? Guys, this is very bad and sad.


----------



## muziksculp

Did they hint when HOOPUS will be released ?

I'm also curious to know how much SSD space HOOPUS will require ? and if it would be offered via four separate iLok licenses ?


----------



## Jose7822

Well, the way I see it is, compared to what each of these products (HS, HB, HOP, HOW) used to sell for individually when they were first released, the current sale price for Hollywood Orchestra Diamond is a steal!!

I remember HS used to cost around $1,000 USD. Even if you compare Hollywood Orchestra Diamond at the current 60% sale price to the newer libraries, it is a steal. IMO those newer libraries don’t sound as good, nor are they as comprehensive, as the Hollywood series (especially in terms of their Strings library). For me it was a no brainer decision to just get the Diamond bundle, but that’s me I guess.


----------



## szczaw

I'm subbed to the composer cloud and since HO and HC are the only libraries I use, I got discounted full diamond versions to get off the subscription. I think that HO wth %60 discount is the best bang for the buck when comes to orchestral libraries.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I owned Hollywood Brass Gold and Hollywood Strings Diamond separately. I should have just bought the full thing in the first place...but did grab Hollywood Orchestra Diamond during this sale. It’s not that expensive and you get one of the best libraries - even if Opus wasn’t coming out. Opus will be a welcome upgrade and glad I have HO Diamond to upgrade from. Also, my new 4TB hard drive is not even 1/4th full so these developers better start releasing stuff!


----------



## NoamL

Just got an email advertising HOOPUS with Composer Cloud X. Does that mean it won't release for Composer Cloud?


----------



## doctoremmet

The trouble is: I KNOW you guys are all right.  Somehow it still sucks to have bought HS Gold, then EWHO Gold only to end up with Diamond - even though my entire EastWest $ spend would still be a very acceptable $600 or something... 

Maybe I’ll just budge and get Diamond, EW Piano bundle (Gold? Platinum? Aaaarghhh) and Spaces II and call it a day huh?


----------



## muziksculp

NoamL said:


> Just got an email advertising HOOPUS with Composer Cloud X. Does that mean it won't release for Composer Cloud?



Just got the same email, what's the difference between Cloud X and Composer Cloud ? Cloud X is $199. / Year.


----------



## EgM

muziksculp said:


> Just got the same email, what's the difference between Cloud X and Composer Cloud ? Cloud X is $199. / Year.



Composer Cloud X has one additional mic position, Close.


----------



## muziksculp

EgM said:


> Composer Cloud X has one additional mic position, Close.



Thanks for the info.

I would have never guessed that was the difference.


----------



## AllanH

doctoremmet said:


> The trouble is: I KNOW you guys are all right.  Somehow it still sucks to have bought HS Gold, then EWHO Gold only to end up with Diamond - even though my entire EastWest $ spend would still be a very acceptable $600 or something...
> 
> Maybe I’ll just budge and get Diamond, EW Piano bundle (Gold? Platinum? Aaaarghhh) and Spaces II and call it a day huh?



At least for Hollywood Orchestra, just get Diamond. I think paid about $600 for diamond just a few years ago, and that was considered a good price at the time. I'm not sure about the Pianos - never got those (they sound good, though).


----------



## muziksculp

I'm not a big fan of PLAY, or EWHO. Although I have the Plat. version. I never used it, but I might do so, if they have greatly improved the library and its organization, PLAY, and have some great sounding new content, and other features. What I fear is that it will require a lot of SSD Space. Which I'm not sure I want to dedicate to PLAY based libraries/HOOPUS.


----------



## Jose7822

Well, Hollywood Orchestra Diamond is 680GB. Add the over 230GB found in Opus and you’re looking at just under 1TB of disk space needed for the whole thing. So yeah, it’s a big library that requires a bit of SSD space .


----------



## muziksculp

Jose7822 said:


> Well, Hollywood Orchestra Diamond is 680GB. Add the over 230GB found in Opus and you’re looking at just under 1TB of disk space needed for the whole thing. So yeah, it’s a big library that requires a bit of SSD space .



Thanks for the feedback. 

I'm guessing one can install the Strings, Brass, Woodwinds and Perc on separate drives. Correct ?

Each section will have it's own license/via iLok ? or if you subscribe to their Cloud X you still install the various sections or the orchestra on separate SSD's as long as your subscription is active .


----------



## Jose7822

doctoremmet said:


> The trouble is: I KNOW you guys are all right.  Somehow it still sucks to have bought HS Gold, then EWHO Gold only to end up with Diamond - even though my entire EastWest $ spend would still be a very acceptable $600 or something...
> 
> Maybe I’ll just budge and get Diamond, EW Piano bundle (Gold? Platinum? Aaaarghhh) and Spaces II and call it a day huh?



The EW Pianos are good, but I prefer Ivory Pianos. They play better too, since the EW ones have an area in the dynamic range where they jump to very loud all of the sudden. As for Spaces II, it’s a good convolution reverb. However, I still prefer 7th Heaven (though Cinematic Rooms would probably be even better for Orchestral music. Just waiting for it to go on sale).

Only my suggestion, since I know these products I’m recommending are more expensive.


----------



## Jose7822

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> I'm guessing one can install the Strings, Brass, Woodwinds and Perc on separate drives. Correct ?
> 
> Each section will have it's own license/via iLok ? or if you subscribe to their Cloud X you still install the various sections or the orchestra on separate SSD's as long as your subscription is active .



Yes, you can install each product on their own SSD (which is what EW recommends). It’s very similar to how Kontakt handles this. Actually, it’s even easier in PLAY since you have to use their Native Access app in order to assign/change library paths with Kontakt libraries. On the other hand, EW allows you to do this easily in both their download assistant software, as well as PLAY.


----------



## lettucehat

What were the contents of this email mentioning HOOPUS? I didn't get anything and I'm on CC X. Weird.


----------



## muziksculp

Jose7822 said:


> Yes, you can install each product on their own SSD (which is what EW recommends). It’s very similar to how Kontakt handles this. Actually, it’s even easier in PLAY since you have to use their Native Access app in order to assign/change library paths. On the other hand, EW allows you to do this in both their download assistant software, as well as PLAY.



That's great. 

Thanks.


----------



## muziksculp

Soundsonline email :

Quote :


This fall EASTWEST will release HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRA OPUS EDITION and HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRATOR including hundreds of new instruments and presets. The OPUS EDITION includes brand new pristine recordings plus redesigned original content for the orchestra and solo instruments. HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRATOR includes hundreds of presets, allowing you to create a blockbuster score within seconds. You can take advantage of this COMPOSERCLOUD X special offer by signing up today. It's the most inexpensive option for obtaining HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRA OPUS EDITION and HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRATOR.
In addition to this monumental expansion and composing tool that has been years in development, you also get all 67 EASTWEST virtual instrument and synth collections that include over 40,000 award-winning instruments plus other upcoming new releases with a COMPOSERCLOUD X subscription for just $199 a year.
CLICK HERE to signup for this limited time SPECIAL OFFER today.
*Rules and Conditions:*
All products are available for immediate download.
*IMPORTANT!* If you purchase a hard drive instead of download, the hard drive
is shipped from the USA, and purchaser is responsible for any import fees.
*Join the Soundsonline Community:*
Follow us on Twitter | Join us on Facebook | Visit our YouTube Channel
Our secure server software (SSL) is the industry standard, and amongst the best software available today for secure commerce transactions.
It encrypts ALL of your personal information including credit card number, name, and address, so that it cannot be read as the information travels over the Internet.
SOUNDS ONLINE is a division of EASTWEST. All rights reserved.
​


----------



## Jose7822

ALTM said:


> What were the contents of this email mentioning HOOPUS? I didn't get anything and I'm on CC X. Weird.



You didn’t get the email cause you are already subscribed to the Composer Cloud X. It was telling me to join CC X in order to get Opus for the lowest price.


----------



## pmcrockett

ALTM said:


> What were the contents of this email mentioning HOOPUS? I didn't get anything and I'm on CC X. Weird.


----------



## lettucehat

Thanks everybody, that makes sense. At least it's good to know I'll be able to try it before I potential buy it.


----------



## muziksculp

So, the $199.00 Subscription to the Composer Cloud X is only good for one day, today. It's a special price.

What is the regular price of the CC-X yearly subscription ?


----------



## EgM

muziksculp said:


> So, the $199.00 Subscription to the Composer Cloud X is only good for one day, today. It's a special price.
> 
> What is the regular price of the CC-X yearly subscription ?



Hmm, I've always seen it at that price haha


----------



## muziksculp

EgM said:


> Hmm, I've always seen it at that price haha



That's odd, so what's the special deal today ?


----------



## Jose7822

No, it’s saying to sign up today. Not that the offers ends today .


----------



## Dracarys

Hopefully legato transitions actually exist this time, and strings don't need to be constantly layered to high that thin softsynth timbre.

Also, Silk and Gypsy 2 is long overdue!


----------



## lettucehat

I also re-upped at $199 thinking it was limited time, but these deals are just going on indefinitely it seems.


----------



## muziksculp

Jose7822 said:


> No, it’s saying to sign up today. Not that the offers ends today .



It says, Quote : 

"CLICK HERE to signup for this limited time SPECIAL OFFER today. "

note : limited time, special offer, today !


----------



## muziksculp

When I click on the Click Here link, it takes me to their webpage, and mentions this will save 45% of the annual sub. fee.

Reg. Price of CC-X Subscription/yr. is $359.88 , Special Price is $199./Yr.


----------



## Jose7822

muziksculp said:


> It says, Quote :
> 
> "CLICK HERE to signup for this limited time SPECIAL OFFER today. "
> 
> note : limited time, special offer, today !



That is just marketing lingo. Trust me, it won’t end today. This deal has been going on for a while, and I can guarantee you that it will go until Opus and their Orchestrator software comes out since I’m sure that’s how they’ll entice people to join their subscription model.


----------



## muziksculp

Jose7822 said:


> That is just marketing lingo. Trust me, it won’t end today. This deal has been going on for a while, and I can guarantee you that it will go until Opus and their Orchestrator software comes out since I’m sure that’s how they’ll entice people to join their subscription model.



I believe you. But their marketing lingo is quite ambiguous.


----------



## Jose7822

muziksculp said:


> I believe you. But their marketing lingo is quite ambiguous.



That’s what they do best. And not just EW.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

muziksculp said:


> What I fear is that it will require a lot of SSD Space. Which I'm not sure I want to dedicate to PLAY based libraries/HOOPUS.


You can save a lot of space after installation by deleting the mic positions you're not gonna use.

Everything is organized via folders, so this is simple to do.






The above is for Celli.

Let's say you know you're only gonna use mic positions Close, Main and Mid for Hollywood Strings.

Then in the samples folder, you can delete the folders Dv (Divisi), Sr (Surround) and Vt (Vintage) for 1st Violins, 2nd Violins, Viola, Celli and Bass.

For Celli alone, this will save you 33,4 GB harddrive space!

Similarly with the other sections - Woodwinds, Brass, Percussion.

Edit:
Just keep a backup of the full installation, so you can put back the microphone positions at a later stage if you want, without having to re-download the whole library from EW. I have my backup on an external 2TB WD 7200rpm harddrive.


----------



## I like music

Dracarys said:


> Hopefully legato transitions actually exist this time, and strings don't need to be constantly layered to high that thin softsynth timbre.
> 
> Also, Silk and Gypsy 2 is long overdue!



Blasphemy! Though I don't use the strings now (only so much you can do when you have 500gb of HD space and 32gb of RAM to cram a whole orchestra into ... where's a proper PURGE function?) I always REALLY liked the timbre, and also thought the legato was good (and existed)!


----------



## Jose7822

Legato transitions do exist in Hollywood Strings. It also has Portamento, which some current dedicated Strings library don’t even have. There are patches with faster or slower Slur/Portamento, patches that automatically take care of the timing of the legato transitions and also patches that enable you to adjust the timing of the legato transitions via MIDI velocity.

I think people don’t really understand how exhaustive this library is. Sure, the legato transitions are not perfect all the time. But they are there and you can adjust their timing and volume.


----------



## Geoff Grace

muziksculp said:


> Soundsonline email :
> 
> Quote :
> 
> 
> This fall EASTWEST will release HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRA OPUS EDITION and HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRATOR including hundreds of new instruments and presets. The OPUS EDITION includes brand new pristine recordings plus redesigned original content for the orchestra and solo instruments. HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRATOR includes hundreds of presets, allowing you to create a blockbuster score within seconds. You can take advantage of this COMPOSERCLOUD X special offer by signing up today. It's the most inexpensive option for obtaining HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRA OPUS EDITION and HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRATOR.
> In addition to this monumental expansion and composing tool that has been years in development, you also get all 67 EASTWEST virtual instrument and synth collections that include over 40,000 award-winning instruments plus other upcoming new releases with a COMPOSERCLOUD X subscription for just $199 a year.
> CLICK HERE to signup for this limited time SPECIAL OFFER today.
> *Rules and Conditions:*
> All products are available for immediate download.
> *IMPORTANT!* If you purchase a hard drive instead of download, the hard drive
> is shipped from the USA, and purchaser is responsible for any import fees.
> *Join the Soundsonline Community:*
> Follow us on Twitter | Join us on Facebook | Visit our YouTube Channel
> Our secure server software (SSL) is the industry standard, and amongst the best software available today for secure commerce transactions.
> It encrypts ALL of your personal information including credit card number, name, and address, so that it cannot be read as the information travels over the Internet.
> SOUNDS ONLINE is a division of EASTWEST. All rights reserved.​


Just a heads up, *muziksculp*: for those of us who prefer light mode, yellow text appears on a white page. It's not impossible to read, but it isn't easy either. I usually just skip the parts of posts that are in yellow, so it's not much trouble for me; but it does mean that I don't read some of what you write. It's a little like having an ignore feature; but unlike the typical use case for an ignore feature, it's for someone whose posts I like.

As this site now defaults to dark mode, I don't know how many of us still read it in light mode; but I thought I'd share my experience for your consideration. That said, I'm not asking you to change, just sharing an outcome from using yellow text.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## dzilizzi

Geoff Grace said:


> Just a heads up: for those of us who prefer light mode, yellow text appears on a white page. It's not impossible to read, but it isn't easy either. I usually just skip the parts of posts that are in yellow, so it's not much trouble for me; but it does mean that I don't read some of what you write. It's a little like having an ignore feature; but unlike the typical use case for an ignore feature, it's for someone whose posts I like.
> 
> As this site now defaults to dark mode, I don't know how many of us still read it in light mode; but I thought I'd share my experience for your consideration. I'm not asking you to change, just sharing an outcome of this choice.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


It's a secret. They didn't want you to know. It is only for us dark mode readers! (I feel like I should add a Bwahahahaha to this)

It is bad, because things that work in dark mode don't always work in light and vice versa. I don't know if there is something that can be done site-wide to automatically change colors that don't work in different modes? Otherwise it is probably best not to use colors if they don't adjust.


----------



## jamwerks

No new solo woodwinds comin' in Opus? Too bad !!


----------



## Ruffian Price

hbjdk said:


> Let's say you know you're only gonna use mic positions Close, Main and Mid for Hollywood Strings.
> 
> Then in the samples folder, you can delete the folders Dv (Divisi), Sr (Surround) and Vt (Vintage) for 1st Violins, 2nd Violins, Viola, Celli and Bass.


IIRC you have to keep the default mics (Mid for woodwinds, Main for others) or the patches will throw an error on load, but all the rest you can delete


----------



## Frederick

"The OPUS EDITION includes brand new pristine recordings plus redesigned original content for the *orchestra and solo* instruments."

I'm wondering whether or not 'solo instruments' also include the solo Violin, Cello and Harp (diamond). Maybe you'll need those too for an OPUS upgrade.


----------



## muziksculp

Geoff Grace said:


> Just a heads up, *muziksculp*: for those of us who prefer light mode, yellow text appears on a white page. It's not impossible to read, but it isn't easy either. I usually just skip the parts of posts that are in yellow, so it's not much trouble for me; but it does mean that I don't read some of what you write. It's a little like having an ignore feature; but unlike the typical use case for an ignore feature, it's for someone whose posts I like.
> 
> As this site now defaults to dark mode, I don't know how many of us still read it in light mode; but I thought I'd share my experience for your consideration. That said, I'm not asking you to change, just sharing an outcome from using yellow text.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff



Hi Geof,

You might want to inform the Forum admin about this.

I prefer using the dark mode of the forum, it's got less glare, and easier on the eyes for me. I use colors, like yellow to make it easier for the reader to find specific parts of my post, quotes, important details that I want to highlight, etc. I prefer that to writing in bold white letters, or underline. I can use red instead of yellow, which might be more visible against a light background. Maybe that's a solution for now. 

I think this is a detail that needs to be sorted out by the Forum admin/designers. or you can switch to dark mode 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## awaey

march 2006 EW Price 

Re: Last Week Of East/West Anniversary Sale!

East/West anniversary pricing will end this Friday (March 31) as well as promotional bundle pricing. Our special pricing for VI members is much lower on many items - beyond the anniversary pricing. These include:

Gold/Gold Pro XP bundle: E/W anniversary pricing: $1,195.00 - email/PM us for extra discount $$ price

Platinum/Platinum Pro XP bundle: E/W anniversary pricing: $3,495 - email/PM us for substantially discounted price

Platinum Edition alone: E/W anniversary pricing: $1,495.00 - email/PM us for extra discount price

Platinum XP alone: E/W anniversary pricing: $2095.00 (list $2,995.00) - email/PM us for extra discount $$ price

Bundle of EWQL Symphonic Choirs, RA and Colossus - E/W special promotion price: $1,995.00 - email/PM us for extra discount $$ price

Email or PM us for additional quotes.


----------



## Geoff Grace

muziksculp said:


> Hi Geof,
> 
> You might want to inform the Forum admin about this.
> 
> I prefer using the dark mode of the forum, it's got less glare, and easier on the eyes for me. I use colors, like yellow to make it easier for the reader to find specific parts of my post, quotes, important details that I want to highlight, etc. I prefer that to writing in bold white letters, or underline. I can use red instead of yellow, which might be more visible against a light background. Maybe that's a solution for now.
> 
> I think this is a detail that needs to be sorted out by the Forum admin/designers. or you can switch to dark mode
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


I do think red would be easier to read for those of us using light mode. Thanks for considering that option, *Muziksculp*. Again, I respect that it's your call to make.

I agree that the best remedy would be one that reconfigures colors automatically. It's certainly worth asking about.

At the same time, I'm glad there's a dark mode/light mode option, as we each have different needs and/or preferences. I'm one who enjoys the energy boost of sunshine and other light sources. I only use sunglasses when I'm driving straight at the sun on the horizon. I never thought of this before, but that's probably a reason I prefer Pro Tools to Logic Pro X. Lighter interface.

How about that? This is another illuminating conversation! 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## José Herring

I like music said:


> Blasphemy! Though I don't use the strings now (only so much you can do when you have 500gb of HD space and 32gb of RAM to cram a whole orchestra into ... where's a proper PURGE function?) I always REALLY liked the timbre, and also thought the legato was good (and existed)!


It does. Don't know what he's talking about really. 

I do notice that there is some sonic degradation in the slur patches but all in all they work rather well.


----------



## Geoff Grace

nawzadhaji said:


> march 2006 EW Price
> 
> Re: Last Week Of East/West Anniversary Sale!
> 
> East/West anniversary pricing will end this Friday (March 31) as well as promotional bundle pricing. Our special pricing for VI members is much lower on many items - beyond the anniversary pricing. These include:
> 
> Gold/Gold Pro XP bundle: E/W anniversary pricing: $1,195.00 - email/PM us for extra discount $$ price
> 
> Platinum/Platinum Pro XP bundle: E/W anniversary pricing: $3,495 - email/PM us for substantially discounted price
> 
> Platinum Edition alone: E/W anniversary pricing: $1,495.00 - email/PM us for extra discount price
> 
> Platinum XP alone: E/W anniversary pricing: $2095.00 (list $2,995.00) - email/PM us for extra discount $$ price
> 
> Bundle of EWQL Symphonic Choirs, RA and Colossus - E/W special promotion price: $1,995.00 - email/PM us for extra discount $$ price
> 
> Email or PM us for additional quotes.


I bought _EWQLSO Platinum_ and _EWQLSC_ before those sales prices went into effect! We are so spoiled today.

On the other hand, there was also more advance money to be made from music library composing back then; so it all evened out.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## I like music

Geoff Grace said:


> I bought _EWQLSO Platinum_ and _EWQLSC_ before those sales prices went into effect! We are so spoiled today.
> 
> On the other hand, there was also more advance money to be made from music library composing back then; so it all evened out.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff



I think hobbyists like me who don't make a living out of this stuff, are spoilt beyond belief. We can get absolutely professional quality stuff for the price of a 4-month gym membership.

I know we like to nitpick, but sometimes I have to laugh in disbelief at how many quality VIs currently sit on my relatively cheap laptop.


----------



## Jose7822

nawzadhaji said:


> march 2006 EW Price
> 
> Re: Last Week Of East/West Anniversary Sale!
> 
> East/West anniversary pricing will end this Friday (March 31) as well as promotional bundle pricing. Our special pricing for VI members is much lower on many items - beyond the anniversary pricing. These include:
> 
> Gold/Gold Pro XP bundle: E/W anniversary pricing: $1,195.00 - email/PM us for extra discount $$ price
> 
> Platinum/Platinum Pro XP bundle: E/W anniversary pricing: $3,495 - email/PM us for substantially discounted price
> 
> Platinum Edition alone: E/W anniversary pricing: $1,495.00 - email/PM us for extra discount price
> 
> Platinum XP alone: E/W anniversary pricing: $2095.00 (list $2,995.00) - email/PM us for extra discount $$ price
> 
> Bundle of EWQL Symphonic Choirs, RA and Colossus - E/W special promotion price: $1,995.00 - email/PM us for extra discount $$ price
> 
> Email or PM us for additional quotes.



I remember those days. That’s why I’m thankful for the prices these libraries cost these days. We’re definitely spoiled .


----------



## Geoff Grace

dzilizzi said:


> I don't know if there is something that can be done site-wide to automatically change colors that don't work in different modes?





muziksculp said:


> You might want to inform the Forum admin about this.



Good idea.

I've started a thread about it here:

Automatic Light Mode/Dark Mode Text Color Substitution?

Sorry for the off-topic posts. Thanks for your patience, everyone!

Best,

Geoff


----------



## dcoscina

I remember when I bought EWQLSO Gold. It was a lotta dough back in 2005... but at the time, sonically it was pretty advanced. I augmented it with some VSL back then. Ha, 2 libraries... 

To be quite honest, I'd love nothing more than OPUS to be a one stop shop for delivering stunning cinematic music. I have BBCSO for concert related stuff... I'd love to focus more on the music and less on futzing around endlessly for the best "oboe" or "horn" from a plethora of libraries I own.


----------



## muziksculp

For a test, I switched to the light-mode of the forum, just to see how things are on the lighter side, so* blue/*blue*, red/*red*, Orang**e/*orange text over white background shouldn't be a problem to read in light mode both bold, and normal are visible enough for me. I think Yellow is the one that's hard to read. But switching back to light mode, the black text is not visible to read. As you can see, the black text is not easy to read in the forum's dark-mode. I'm not sure if this is taken care of automatically by the forum, by switching the colors depending on the font color. So far it doesn't seem to work when I switch.


----------



## Geoff Grace

Those colors are easy for me to read too, *Muziksculp*. Thanks!

Best,

Geoff


----------



## muziksculp

Geoff Grace said:


> Those colors are easy for me to read too, *Muziksculp*. Thanks!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff



Very good. 

I'm glad I was able to help make my posts more comfortable to read.


----------



## Jose7822

Guys, let’s please try to keep things on topic. A thread has been created to further discuss font colors .


----------



## muziksculp

Jose7822 said:


> Guys, let’s please try to keep things on topic. A thread has been created to further discuss font colors .



Yes, yes... No Problemo.. We go back to topic. Sorry for the little detour


----------



## Geoff Grace

I apologize again as well.

So back on topic, there seems to be an assumption that it's best to upgrade to Diamond in order to upgrade to HOOPUS later on. Do we know that Gold versions won't be eligible?

Best,

Geoff


----------



## lettucehat

No indication, but a history of upgrade prices being pretty bad relative to just buying products outright. As an owner of both a Diamond and *Silver* product I'm definitely curious.


----------



## Dracarys

I like music said:


> Blasphemy! Though I don't use the strings now (only so much you can do when you have 500gb of HD space and 32gb of RAM to cram a whole orchestra into ... where's a proper PURGE function?) I always REALLY liked the timbre, and also thought the legato was good (and existed)!



I admit a few light patches in the Long section have a very nice sound, especially the high notes. There's one patch, if layered with a Marcato, gives a really nice Jurassic Park sound. The Long powerful patches are pretty bad IMO, especially on some notes. I also don't like having to EQ strings a lot remove hiss and squeakiness.

Maybe I was a bit harsh, but I think the library was over priced when I bought, considering it's age and when products like Strezov Afflatus Strings exist (just wish that library was more versatile)


----------



## NoamL

Jose7822 said:


> Legato transitions do exist in Hollywood Strings. It also has Portamento, which some current dedicated Strings library don’t even have. There are patches with faster or slower Slur/Portamento, patches that automatically take care of the timing of the legato transitions and also patches that enable you to adjust the timing of the legato transitions via MIDI velocity.
> 
> I think people don’t really understand how exhaustive this library is. Sure, the legato transitions are not perfect all the time. But they are there and you can adjust their timing and volume.



Yep, and if you use the Bow Change patches in the Power folder the legato speed takes care of itself 90% of the time! It's actually very well programmed. I just wish the release tails were a bit more prominent?


----------



## Jose7822

Geoff Grace said:


> I apologize again as well.
> 
> So back on topic, there seems to be an assumption that it's best to upgrade to Diamond in order to upgrade to HOOPUS later on. Do we know that Gold versions won't be eligible?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff



Apologies if I sounded like a forum cop, cause that’s not like me. But I‘m very interested in this product and this thread is already 20 pages long. But thanks for understanding!

As for your question, going by past EW releases, they usually release the Gold versions of their orchestral libraries much later after the initial release. I’m assuming that you’ll need the Diamond version of HO in order to integrate it into OPUS, but that’s just an assumption. If it is the case though, EW might have an offer for Gold users so that they can both upgrade to Diamond and get the OPUS expansion. If you want to remain with the Gold edition, then you might have a looong wait before you can get OPUS. I might be wrong though. Hopefully they can provide more info about this product soon.


----------



## Jose7822

NoamL said:


> Yep, and if you use the Bow Change patches in the Power folder the legato speed takes care of itself 90% of the time! It's actually very well programmed. I just wish the release tails were a bit more prominent?



I’m not in front of my system right now, but I believe you can adjust the level of the release trails if you go to the PLAYER page. Right in the middle of that page you’ll see the articulations that are loaded, as well as the release trails, if the articulation has them (usually short articulations don’t have release trails, though there’s an exception that escapes me right now). All of them have a volume knob for adjusting the levels of the samples.

Hope this helps!


----------



## José Herring

dcoscina said:


> I remember when I bought EWQLSO Gold. It was a lotta dough back in 2005... but at the time, sonically it was pretty advanced. I augmented it with some VSL back then. Ha, 2 libraries...
> 
> To be quite honest, I'd love nothing more than OPUS to be a one stop shop for delivering stunning cinematic music. I have BBCSO for concert related stuff... I'd love to focus more on the music and less on futzing around endlessly for the best "oboe" or "horn" from a plethora of libraries I own.


I hear you. I just started kind of a newbie thread on that in another subform to see if there's any bright ideas on dealing with trying to balance out 3 dozen plus library. So far, only one snarky comment. But, oh well.

For us more classically minded people this is actually a huge problem. I can conceive of more music than what most of these libraries were intended for so it just ends up either I play to the library or I use 1000 libraries. 

Sigh, life IS hard.


----------



## gpwilliams

Jose7822 said:


> Apologies if I sounded like a forum cop, cause that’s not like me. But I‘m very interested in this product and this thread is already 20 pages long. But thanks for understanding!
> 
> As for your question, going by past EW releases, they usually release the Gold versions of their orchestral libraries much later after the initial release. I’m assuming that you’ll need the Diamond version of HO in order to integrate it into OPUS, but that’s just an assumption. If it is the case though, EW might have an offer for Gold users so that they can both upgrade to Diamond and get the OPUS expansion. If you want to remain with the Gold edition, then you might have a looong wait before you can get OPUS. I might be wrong though. Hopefully they can provide more info about this product soon.




You raise a point I have been stewing about - is OPUS to be used in conjunction with HO or is it a stand alone product that will replace HO? I have not seen any info to confirm that it is a replacement product.

If OPUS is a replacement product with new and improved articulations there seems to be little need to for HO. 

I do not have HO. However if HO is needed to run OPUS I might buy HO Diamond now and take the chance of getting a favorable upgrade price to OPUS (and Orchestrator). But as so many have pointed out, this may not be the case based on EW’s terrible past upgrade pricing policies.

On the other hand, if OPUS is a replacement for HO, I think I will skip buying HO Diamond now (at the current bargain price) and just wait for the Initial OPUS offer. If they have an introductory price there might not be that much difference to the HO Diamond upgrade price.

So do you will need HO Diamond to use with OPUS?


----------



## José Herring

gpwilliams said:


> You raise a point I have been stewing about - is OPUS to be used in conjunction with HO or is it a stand alone product that will replace HO? I have not seen any info to confirm that it is a replacement product.
> 
> If OPUS is a replacement product with new and improved articulations there seems to be little need to for HO.
> 
> I do not have HO. However if HO is needed to run OPUS I might buy HO Diamond now and take the chance of getting a favorable upgrade price to OPUS (and Orchestrator). But as so many have pointed out, this may not be the case based on EW’s terrible past upgrade pricing policies.
> 
> On the other hand, if OPUS is a replacement for HO, I think I will skip buying HO Diamond now (at the current bargain price) and just wait for the Initial OPUS offer. If they have an introductory price there might not be that much difference to the HO Diamond upgrade price.
> 
> So do you will need HO Diamond to use with OPUS?


I do not think it is a replacement product. I think it's a reworking of the original patches and some 230 gigs of new content and that you will need the original Diamond library for HOOPUS to work.

There's so little information but it just wouldn't make any sense for them to release an expansion product that doesn't also need the content that it's expanding.


----------



## SlHarder

gpwilliams said:


> So do you will need HO Diamond to use with OPUS



They are telling ComposerCloudX subscribers that they will have full access to OPUS. Currently CCX doesn't give you full access to Diamond. Fwiw


----------



## SupremeFist

José Herring said:


> I do not think it is a replacement product. I think it's a reworking of the original patches and some 230 gigs of new content and that you will need the original Diamond library for HOOPUS to work.


The first announcement definitely said that OPUS would require HO.


----------



## doctoremmet

SupremeFist said:


> The first announcement definitely said that OPUS would require HO.


... and somehow I am (still) under the impression that you even need Diamond to be “eligible” for expansion... no idea why I’m thinking that though...


----------



## José Herring

doctoremmet said:


> ... and somehow I am (still) under the impression that you even need Diamond to be “eligible” for expansion... no idea why I’m thinking that though...


It's an exclusive club. Only Diamond card holders are allowed in. So glad I got my Diamond membership before they decide to end their "limited time offer".


----------



## doctoremmet

José Herring said:


> It's an exclusive club. Only Diamond card holders are allowed in. So glad I got my Diamond membership before they decide to end their "limited time offer".


Dude. You’re totally fueling my FOMO right now....

*heads over to Bestservice to go get Diamond*


----------



## cqd

Dude, just get diamond..


----------



## muziksculp

Do you think the new content/organization of HO-Plat. once they release OPUS will require a full re-download of the HO-Plat. content. ?


----------



## Chungus

doctoremmet said:


> Dude. You’re totally fueling my FOMO right now....
> 
> *heads over to Bestservice to go get Diamond*


Lemme put a counter-argument to the above suggestion and say: Just wait things out.

You're not going to be missing out on anything - EW has 50% off deals like, every other month. And come December, there should be a 60% off again for Christmas or New Year's.

So unless you need a orchestral library _right now, _just wait and see what HOPUS will be actually like, and what a cross-grade price might be.


----------



## doctoremmet

Chungus said:


> Lemme put a counter-argument to the above suggestion and say: Just wait things out.
> 
> You're not going to be missing out on anything - EW has 50% off deals like, every other month. And come December, there should be a 60% off again for Christmas or New Year's.
> 
> So unless you need a orchestral library _right now, _just wait and see what HOPUS will be actually like, and what a cross-grade price might be.


No worries, I will. Sound advice. I just wished I knew why I feel I’d need Diamond  - and I really don’t look forward to downloading 100s and 100s of gigs of data . I own a(n) (un)healthy amount of orchestral samples, I’m good...


----------



## SupremeFist

Counterpoint: HOD is awesome right now, and if they offer HOOPUS as a standalone purchase it's clearly going to be in the price tier of something like BBCSO Pro at least.


----------



## cqd

Diamond really knocks EWHO into a completely different league I think..


----------



## awaey

opus look like collection from EWHO same Quantum Leap Goliath..:


----------



## Frederick

doctoremmet said:


> Dude. You’re totally fueling my FOMO right now....
> 
> *heads over to Bestservice to go get Diamond*



I think AudioDeluxe is the best shop for EastWest VI's: same list price as EastWest (60% off) then you get 15% extra discount in your shopping basket and no VAT added during checkout...


----------



## José Herring

doctoremmet said:


> No worries, I will. Sound advice. I just wished I knew why I feel I’d need Diamond  - and I really don’t look forward to downloading 100s and 100s of gigs of data . I own a(n) (un)healthy amount of orchestral samples, I’m good...


Took me 4 days to download......OMG.....so.......slow.


----------



## gst98

In Nick Phoenix’a post it seemed he was talking about a new custom player/interface for HOOPUS, do we take that to mean it will debut the new Play Pro? Or will that be a different thing all together?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

I wonder why they felt the need to record new violins for OPUS.


----------



## cqd

gst98 said:


> In Nick Phoenix’a post it seemed he was talking about a new custom player/interface for HOOPUS, do we take that to mean it will debut the new Play Pro? Or will that be a different thing all together?



I was going to say I half expected this a while ago but refrained..


----------



## José Herring

gst98 said:


> do we take that to mean it will debut the new Play Pro?



Got a really long hard chuckle from this one. 

In all honesty I think we can kiss the idea of Play Pro goodbye. I don't see any advantage in EW doing that especially since almost all of the competitors are moving into locked player format.

Play Pro was floated as an idea because we old fogies whined so hard about not having access to the sample content like we use to in Kontakt back then. Now it doesn't even matter and I don't even think about going in and tightening up and tuning samples any more. Can't be bothered. Too many great libraries. I hardly hit the wrench tool unless I'm sampling or resampling an instrument in Kontakt. 

But, Play can be configured differently for each library. So, I assume that they'll bring HO's interface into the modern age with HOOPUS (HOPUS), like the ability to turn on and off all mic positions for an instance at once, clicking on the GUI instead of flicking little switches. Make it a bit more user friendly.

Can't wait really.


----------



## Jose7822

gpwilliams said:


> You raise a point I have been stewing about - is OPUS to be used in conjunction with HO or is it a stand alone product that will replace HO? I have not seen any info to confirm that it is a replacement product.
> 
> If OPUS is a replacement product with new and improved articulations there seems to be little need to for HO.
> 
> I do not have HO. However if HO is needed to run OPUS I might buy HO Diamond now and take the chance of getting a favorable upgrade price to OPUS (and Orchestrator). But as so many have pointed out, this may not be the case based on EW’s terrible past upgrade pricing policies.
> 
> On the other hand, if OPUS is a replacement for HO, I think I will skip buying HO Diamond now (at the current bargain price) and just wait for the Initial OPUS offer. If they have an introductory price there might not be that much difference to the HO Diamond upgrade price.
> 
> So do you will need HO Diamond to use with OPUS?



OPUS is an expansion to the current HO collection. EW is adding more functionality and, at the same time, simplifying the way we use HO with an improved interface. You cannot use OPUS without HO. Do you need the Diamond edition? That’s a good question. But, like I said before, EW usually releases the Platinum/Diamond version of their libraries first. Then, much later, they release the Gold versions.

Obviously owning the Diamond version of HO will have you covered for OPUS, but that’s up to you. If you don’t see yourself using it now then just wait until all is revealed. Then make a choice. I think that’s the smart move.

As for PLAY PRO, it might just be that OPUS has a different interface to make switching articulations easier. Similar to how current libraries work, though I hope that it’s not that dumbed down since I really like the fact that I‘m given several articulation options to choose from (especially when it comes to legato patches where there is no ”one fits all” scenario). But I guess we will see how EW handled the easiness of usage since it can be overwhelming. The point I’m trying to make is that the improved interface may just be that, not necessarily PLAY PRO. I guess we will find out before the end of the year.


----------



## gst98

José Herring said:


> Got a really long hard chuckle from this one.
> 
> In all honesty I think we can kiss the idea of Play Pro goodbye. I don't see any advantage in EW doing that especially since almost all of the competitors are moving into locked player format.
> 
> Play Pro was floated as an idea because we old fogies whined so hard about not having access to the sample content like we use to in Kontakt back then. Now it doesn't even matter and I don't even think about going in and tightening up and tuning samples any more. Can't be bothered. Too many great libraries. I hardly hit the wrench tool unless I'm sampling or resampling an instrument in Kontakt.
> 
> But, Play can be configured differently for each library. So, I assume that they'll bring HO's interface into the modern age with HOOPUS (HOPUS), like the ability to turn on and off all mic positions for an instance at once, clicking on the GUI instead of flicking little switches. Make it a bit more user friendly.
> 
> Can't wait really.



Sure, I have no real desire for a Pro version myself, but it sounded like there were things EW wanted to change, and I’ve heard rumblings about Play Pro before so it made sense to me. So will this just be a HOOPUS dedicated interface, like how spitfire has a different plugin for each library even thought they are the same player? Or just a play 7 maybe?


----------



## José Herring

gst98 said:


> So will this just be a HOOPUS dedicated interface, like how spitfire has a different plugin for each library even thought they are the same player? Or just a play 7 maybe?



Perhaps both. I'm excited either way. I think EW is going to out do themselves. I remember how much of a huge improvement Gold XP was back in the day. I expect it will be as big of an improvement and we'll still have access to our favorite older HO patches too.


----------



## NoamL

HOOPUS isn't a complete orchestra by itself, at least not according to what we know now. We were told it would have a new Vn1 section with 18 players, as an alternative to the current HWO Vn1, but nothing about other string sections. Also it sounded like they were doing some new tpts & tbns, but not horns.

Mostly I'm excited for those ensemble woodwinds.

EDIT: i forgot about the "Orchestrator" patches, maybe those contain reworked content from HWO.


----------



## Jose7822

PLAY PRO has been a thing for years. EW even showed images, and I believe there were even videos, showcasing what it would look like and it’s functionality. As we know, that never happened. And like Jose said, it probably won’t happen. I agree with him that the extra functionality that PLAY PRO would offer won’t be used by the vast majority of users. People complain about how hard to use HO is, so making things harder is not in EW best interest.

I expect them to come out with an interface, like they do with all of their other products, that’s catered to OPUS. They’re just gonna make things easier to select articulations and the sort. I wouldn’t expect a PLAY PRO.

PLAY PRO is EW’s unicorn :-P.


----------



## gst98

NoamL said:


> HOOPUS isn't a complete orchestra by itself, at least not according to what we know now. We were told it would have a new Vn1 section with 18 players, as an alternative to the current HWO Vn1, but nothing about other string sections. Also it sounded like they were doing some new tpts & tbns, but not horns.
> 
> Mostly I'm excited for those ensemble woodwinds.
> 
> EDIT: i forgot about the "Orchestrator" patches, maybe those contain reworked content from HWO.


They also said they were reworking things like the woodwinds, so I wonder how much the content that isn’t being re-recorded will change, if at all.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Jose7822 said:


> (...) I hope that it’s not that dumbed down since I really like the fact that I‘m given several articulation options to choose from (especially when it comes to legato patches where there is no ”one fits all” scenario).


We will have access to all the current files in OPUS too, just in a Legacy folder.


----------



## Jose7822

hbjdk said:


> We will have access to all the current files in OPUS too, just in a Legacy folder.



He did say that. I completely forgot.

Good! Though it still makes me wonder about the new content.


----------



## AndyP

Maybe there are also pre mix mics like in other libraries. That would be quite charming.
New Woodwind legatos would be great, I am honestly satisfied with everything else. 
Unified CC1 and CC11 controller, for vibrato instead of CC1 something else. Preferably freely selectable.

Also a more intelligent control of the BC and the 4 finger positions would be great.
In my Diamond installation there are 3 patches that do not work. I think they were divisi strings, violins 1 or 2, I don't know for sure (RR labelled). Given the mass of alternative patches, this was not a big deal.

If the keyswitch patches for all sections were put together in a sensible way, it would be ingenious. And this time a little bit better balanced and more sensibly arranged.
The fx patches with more exactly synced tremolos (like in Areia). For the runs I don't need 3 alternatives (e.g. MOD), again I prefer key switches to switch the variant (maj/min, up/down).

If, in addition to new samples, it is above all an improved organization of the existing sample material and the player, HO is again at a current level.

Basically it's about details and nuances that would make life a little bit easier.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

@Hanu_H 

Maybe it would be a good idea to include a link to Nick's post in the opening post? His post gets lost in the many pages the thread contains 






Hollywood orchestra opus edition and hollywood orchestrator


To me, this is a myth. It isn’t hard to work with IF you are a player rather than a step enterer, once you know the patches that work best for you and use an articulation switcher. I can’t tell you how many times I start with something else and then end up switching back to HO. Which patches...




vi-control.net


----------



## muziksculp

@hbjdk Thanks for the link to Nick's post. That was very informative, and helpful.


----------



## José Herring

gst98 said:


> They also said they were reworking things like the woodwinds, so I wonder how much the content that isn’t being re-recorded will change, if at all.


I finally got my hands on the woodwinds and my overall conclusion is that in its current form they never finished programing it. It has some weird patch choices that just seem like they stopped midway and decided to release what they had. 

So, them completing the programming will be a huge benefit to the library. Sonicly the woodwinds are on par with the best woodwinds I've ever heard. Programming wise nearly 80% of the patches are unusable and are only what I would consider about 20% completed.

It's a bit of a heartbreak again for a developer to stop short of the full potential of a woodwind library but I understand. When they released it it was at time when the company was in some turmoil and I'm sure they just decided to release something to complete HO as promised. 

If they do get back in and reprogram the patches I will tell you that it will turn out to be the best woodwind library on the market. The stuff they have recorded sounds fantastic. There are so many articulation choices. They need new programming to go with it.


----------



## muziksculp

After reading Quantum's post that was linked to above. I have a feeling that HOOPUS will require a full download, even if one has HO-Plat. installed, it will also use a new Player, with new instruments, and organization of the instruments that make it easier to use, and maybe some boost to PLAY's performance.

I'm very excited about HOOPUS, and wish they will update us with more info., teasers, .. Release date, ...etc.


----------



## John R Wilson

muziksculp said:


> After reading Quantum's post that was linked to above. I have a feeling that HOOPUS will require a full download, even if one has HO-Plat. installed, it will also use a new Player, with new instruments, and organization of the instruments that make it easier to use, and maybe some boost to PLAY's performance.
> 
> I'm very excited about HOOPUS, and wish they will update us with more info., teasers, .. Release date, ...etc.



Same here, really looking forward to it. I was hoping we would know some more about a possible release date or more info this month, it's coming up to half a year since it was announced!


----------



## Beans

You've gotta think that *something* big from *someone* has got to release before Black Friday, right? In order to not compete against the inevitable sales, yeah?


----------



## Drundfunk

I talked to their support a while back asking if purchasing HO Diamond would be beneficial for an upgrade price for HOOPUS (which apparently will be the case. But looking at Spaces and Spaces 2 I'm not so sure). I told them I already own the Hollywood Brass Diamond and that I'm reluctant to purchase the HO Diamond since they don't have a "complete-the-bundle"-option. Support told me they are currently discussing how they want to do the upgrade pricing, but that it COULD be a possibility to upgrade by just owning one part of the HO (in my case the brass). So I didn't purchase HO and said "fuck it, I'll wait and see what happens". So that may or may not be an option. Looking forward to it.


----------



## lettucehat

I would be very disappointed if it does end up being one monolithic product rather than an Opus edition for each section of the orchestra that you could buy or upgrade to based on what you already have. I'm just not ever getting on board the full orchestra ecosystem they have, but would gladly pay for a much more user friendly version of brass/strings, new recordings being a bonus.


----------



## cqd

I think the new recordings will be just the new violins 1 and ensemble winds anyway..

Knowing how they are with upgrade pricing it will probably end up being cheaper to upgrade from gold than diamond..


----------



## Johnny

cqd said:


> Dude, just get diamond..


Honestly, Diamond is more than worth the money : )


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

cqd said:


> I think the new recordings will be just the new violins 1 and ensemble winds anyway..


Nick wrote there will also be new recordings of 2 trombones, and 2 trumpets.


----------



## muziksculp

It would be great if they release HOOPUS during next month (October).


----------



## John R Wilson

muziksculp said:


> It would be great if they release HOOPUS during next month (October).



That's when I thought they would release it but I'm not too sure now as we've still not heard any more details about it :(


----------



## muziksculp

John R Wilson said:


> That's when I thought they would release it but I'm not too sure now as we've still not heard any more details about it :(



Well, we got two more weeks in September, maybe they will make a move, and delight us with some fresh new info. about HOOPUS. hehe.. but I'm not expecting them to announce PLAY-Pro in my lifetime.


----------



## John R Wilson

muziksculp said:


> Well, we got two more weeks in September, maybe they will make a move, and delight us with some fresh new info. about HOOPUS. hehe.. but I'm not expecting them to announce PLAY-Pro in my lifetime.



I've got my fingers crossed. An October release would make sense!


----------



## HardyP

Drundfunk said:


> (But looking at Spaces and Spaces 2 I'm not so sure). {...} Support told me they are currently discussing how they want to do the upgrade pricing, but that it COULD be a possibility to upgrade by just owning one part of the HO (in my case the brass). So I didn't purchase HO and said "fuck it, I'll wait and see what happens".


Like many, I'm also missing the "complete my orchestra"-Option (Strings+Brass over here), and asked for that regularly... and together with the Space-Update-kickintheass I did understand now, that EW does not reward past purchases as much as attracting new users. So for me it is most probably, that waiting for the final product and the first or second sale will be the safest strategy.
HO Diamond is a bargain right now, that's for sure - it's just a matter of my sense of justice ...


----------



## doctoremmet

HardyP said:


> Like many, I'm also missing the "complete my orchestra"-Option (Strings+Brass over here), and asked for that regularly... and together with the Space-Update-kickintheass I did understand now, that EW does not reward past purchases as much as attracting new users. So for me it is most probably, that waiting for the final product and the first or second sale will be the safest strategy.
> HO Diamond is a bargain right now, that's for sure - it's just a matter of my sense of justice ...


It’s like you put my thoughts into words


----------



## Markrs

HardyP said:


> Like many, I'm also missing the "complete my orchestra"-Option (Strings+Brass over here), and asked for that regularly... and together with the Space-Update-kickintheass I did understand now, that EW does not reward past purchases as much as attracting new users. So for me it is most probably, that waiting for the final product and the first or second sale will be the safest strategy.
> HO Diamond is a bargain right now, that's for sure - it's just a matter of my sense of justice ...


I agree with this, for me it is just safer to wait, but then I have CCX (edu so only costs me £8 a month) so I will get to play with it and see if I then want to buy it.


----------



## José Herring

HardyP said:


> Like many, I'm also missing the "complete my orchestra"-Option (Strings+Brass over here), and asked for that regularly... and together with the Space-Update-kickintheass I did understand now, that EW does not reward past purchases as much as attracting new users. So for me it is most probably, that waiting for the final product and the first or second sale will be the safest strategy.
> HO Diamond is a bargain right now, that's for sure - it's just a matter of my sense of justice ...


It's funny but I guess back in the Northern Sound days EW use to explain their pricing policy very clearly. 

They keep it at a premium on release for a period of time ( usually about a year) for those that are working pros and need it right away, then for the more budget minded they drop prices (usually by 1/2) so that others can get a crack at it. After that it goes down even further as evidence by the fact that EWQLSO use to be around $6000 on release and now you can get it for $400 or so. 

I never thought it as you did. I always saw it as EW making it so that everybody could play (pun intended). I'm sure there's market share considerations, ect.... 

I respect both pricing approaches and yeah it sucked that I paid top dollar for HS+HB Gold because at the time that's what I could afford only to see in subsequent years no real upgrade path that made any real sense. So I just bought a new Diamond license and may just use the my Gold license on a laptop to get the ideas flowing, ect..

At any rate. Maybe it's just me but I appreciate the pricing. Imma 'bout to pick up Hollywood Choirs and it's a no brainer at that price. On the other hand, I'm losing sleep over whether I should get SSO or just SSS. Even though I think SSO is stil quite a bargain and is less than what I paid for EWQLSO Gold.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

I understand the sense of justice in having upgrades available at a discount to existing customers, but really, EW’s “always on sale” prices makes buying the full product of something like HO Diamond a total bargain - even without loyalty discount.


----------



## I like music

Ultimately, I feel they are selling their products for way way cheaper than they could. So I don't have a problem with their upgrade-paths not being great.

Even if you have to make a duplicate purchase) because you couldn't upgrade) the whole orchestra still costs less than many other developers' single sections. 

Super excited to see what they bring. You might be sick of me constantly requesting a good purge function on here, but yeah, that'd be a wonderful surprise!


----------



## gpwilliams

Jose7822 said:


> OPUS is an expansion to the current HO collection. EW is adding more functionality and, at the same time, simplifying the way we use HO with an improved interface. You cannot use OPUS without HO. Do you need the Diamond edition? That’s a good question. But, like I said before, EW usually releases the Platinum/Diamond version of their libraries first. Then, much later, they release the Gold versions.
> 
> Obviously owning the Diamond version of HO will have you covered for OPUS, but that’s up to you. If you don’t see yourself using it now then just wait until all is revealed. Then make a choice. I think that’s the smart move.
> 
> As for PLAY PRO, it might just be that OPUS has a different interface to make switching articulations easier. Similar to how current libraries work, though I hope that it’s not that dumbed down since I really like the fact that I‘m given several articulation options to choose from (especially when it comes to legato patches where there is no ”one fits all” scenario). But I guess we will see how EW handled the easiness of usage since it can be overwhelming. The point I’m trying to make is that the improved interface may just be that, not necessarily PLAY PRO. I guess we will find out before the end of the year.




After reading your post I went back and re-read Nick’s post #113. Yes, it does say that HO is needed. Specific details are missing we can only speculate how Opus will be implemented. You point out that Opus might have its own interface and maybe it will replace Play. Also how it will utilize the HO sample bases is not known.

Since I don’t have HO or any of its sections, I’m going to take your advice and just wait and see what is finally offered. Buying HO Diamond now is just a gamble on getting reasonable discount on OPUS.


----------



## Ashermusic

Johnny said:


> Honestly, Diamond is more than worth the money : )



Yep.


----------



## Jose7822

gpwilliams said:


> After reading your post I went back and re-read Nick’s post #113. Yes, it does say that HO is needed. Specific details are missing we can only speculate how Opus will be implemented. You point out that Opus might have its own interface and maybe it will replace Play. Also how it will utilize the HO sample bases is not known.
> 
> Since I don’t have HO or any of its sections, I’m going to take your advice and just wait and see what is finally offered. Buying HO Diamond now is just a gamble on getting reasonable discount on OPUS.



Yes to everything, except you miss interpreted one thing I said.

In regards to OPUS‘s interface, what I meant was that it will have a different interface just like other EW products do. Storm Drum 2, Hollywood Choirs, Hollywood Strings, Silk, Ministry of Rock, etc. all have different interfaces, yet they use the same PLAY engine. I wasn’t referring to a PLAY replacement.

At least that’s what I think they’ll do given that a complete overhaul of their PLAY engine would be a MASSIVE undertaking given the amount of sample libraries EW offers. They would need to rework their new engine to accommodate each one of their libraries.

I could be wrong, of course .


----------



## szczaw

They're updating the existing sample library and releasing new product, the Orchestrator. I'm more curious about the latter.


----------



## gpwilliams

Jose7822 said:


> Yes to everything, except you miss interpreted one thing I said.
> 
> In regards to OPUS‘s interface, what I meant was that it will have a different interface just like other EW products do. Storm Drum 2, Hollywood Choirs, Hollywood Strings, Silk, Ministry of Rock, etc. all have different interfaces, yet they use the same PLAY engine. I wasn’t referring to a PLAY replacement.
> 
> At least that’s what I think they’ll do given that a complete overhaul of their PLAY engine would be a MASSIVE undertaking given the amount of sample libraries EW offers. They would need to rework their new engine to accommodate each one of their libraries.
> 
> I could be wrong, of course .



Yes, I did misinterpret your comments about the OPUS interface. Thanks for the clarification. You are right, It would not make sense to replace or overhaul Play while at the same time trying to produce OPUS.

Really looking forward to the OPUS/Orchestrator release.


----------



## Wenlone

Hello, 

I am new to EastWest products. I write instruments individually, i only use ensembles for unison. I like the sound of HO, but i didn't see any solo bass trombone on Hollywood brass or symphonic orchestra. 

What are the chances we get bass trombone with OPUS?


----------



## Jose7822

gpwilliams said:


> Really looking forward to the OPUS/Orchestrator release.



Same!! The Orchestrator to a lesser degree though, only because I’m skeptical of it. But who knows? It might end up being great, to the point I can’t live without it lol. I just wished EW didn’t announce this so early. Too many questions unanswered. They keep saying that they’ll give more info when they are closer to release. Guess I’ll have to be patient.


----------



## Beans

Jose7822 said:


> I just wished EW didn’t announce this so early. Too many questions unanswered. They keep saying that they’ll give more info when they are closer to release. Guess I’ll have to be patient.



My problem is that I keep spending my Opus budget on other things, and soon enough it'll be Black Friday.


----------



## Jose7822

Beans said:


> My problem is that I keep spending my Opus budget on other things, and soon enough it'll be Black Friday.



I know, lol.

I just got a PS5, but I’ll make it happen (provided it is as good as I believe it will be).


----------



## cqd

I wonder will the orchestrator work without opus..


----------



## John Longley

While we wait, could I humbly suggest we change the name of this thread to "HOOPLA". We may look back and regret not having done so.


----------



## PerryD

Makes me think of Hoopus Poopus by Foopus. My spelling may be off...


----------



## danbo

FWIW from a professional clarinetist about all the negative woodwind comments; I don't hear it. Sat in the WW section for years so know them all intimately, and EW woodwinds sound great. I rarely record the clarinet parts as they don't integrate as well as the samples, which already sound fine. Anyhow I keep seeing comments pop up "the woodwinds are broken" and haven't seen anything saying how exactly.

I know this won't affect the echo chamber and change anything but it was worth a shot.


----------



## doctoremmet

danbo said:


> FWIW from a professional clarinetist about all the negative woodwind comments; I don't hear it. Sat in the WW section for years so know them all intimately, and they sound great. I rarely record the clarinet parts as they don't integrate as well as the samples, which sound fine. Anyhow I keep seeing comments pop up "the woodwinds are broken" and haven't seen anything saying how exactly.
> 
> I know this won't affect the echo chamber and change anything but it was worth a shot.


Thanks for bringing a nuanced sound to the discussion. I always quite like that. So you know, your comment did not go entirely unnoticed!


----------



## Ashermusic

danbo said:


> FWIW from a professional clarinetist about all the negative woodwind comments; I don't hear it. Sat in the WW section for years so know them all intimately, and EW woodwinds sound great. I rarely record the clarinet parts as they don't integrate as well as the samples, which already sound fine. Anyhow I keep seeing comments pop up "the woodwinds are broken" and haven't seen anything saying how exactly.
> 
> I know this won't affect the echo chamber and change anything but it was worth a shot.


 
I mostly agree. My only issue with HOW Diamond is that with the legato patches, it sometimes sounds like there are two instead of one, especially the double reeds.


----------



## cqd

I think the woodwinds thing is just people just repeating what they read on the internet.. they're my go to woodwinds..


----------



## ShidoStrife

danbo said:


> FWIW from a professional clarinetist about all the negative woodwind comments; I don't hear it. Sat in the WW section for years so know them all intimately, and EW woodwinds sound great. I rarely record the clarinet parts as they don't integrate as well as the samples, which already sound fine. Anyhow I keep seeing comments pop up "the woodwinds are broken" and haven't seen anything saying how exactly.
> 
> I know this won't affect the echo chamber and change anything but it was worth a shot.



I'm in no way an expert, but some (many?) legato patches are downright unusable because you can very clearly hear two of them during the transition (very noticeable on the clarinet). I can get around this a bit by adjusting the level of the transition sample vs the sustain sample, but it'd be much appreciated if they fixed the programming so they work flawlessly out of the box. The tone itself is lovely though. I prefer it compared to the Spitfire Studio Woodwinds.


----------



## wcreed51

" it sometimes sounds like there are two instead of one "

All of HO sounds that way to me. All I hear are the seams in the programing.


----------



## Ashermusic

wcreed51 said:


> " it sometimes sounds like there are two instead of one "
> 
> All of HO sounds that way to me. All I hear are the seams in the programing.




It only bothers me with certain of the woodwinds.


----------



## José Herring

danbo said:


> FWIW from a professional clarinetist about all the negative woodwind comments; I don't hear it. Sat in the WW section for years so know them all intimately, and EW woodwinds sound great. I rarely record the clarinet parts as they don't integrate as well as the samples, which already sound fine. Anyhow I keep seeing comments pop up "the woodwinds are broken" and haven't seen anything saying how exactly.
> 
> I know this won't affect the echo chamber and change anything but it was worth a shot.


Potentially the best woodwind library. Imo, they fell short on the programming of it. So many things left partially finished. 

I will say that in large part I agree with you. Considering all the negative hype I was expecting the WW to be hideous. They are not. 

EW have some great material sampled. They need to get somebody to lovingly go through each instrument and integrate the patches, reprogram, phase align crossfades, ect.. That last bit may be hard to do but it wouldn't be hard to handle the crossfades better than they are. 

In the end, if they spend any time on the woodwinds for HOOPUS many people will be singing a different tune because I think potentially they have some of the best recorded orchestral material to work from. 

I was going to mock up a few sections of Mozart's grand partita to see how HOW handled it. Just need to find the time.


----------



## mscp

JohnG said:


> If anything, the Hollywood series was perhaps overly ambitious. So many articulations, such a lot to work through and familiarise oneself with. And possibly they made some decisions that, with hindsight, could have been predicted to cause a bit of head scratching, such as two different implementations of mod-wheel control for vibrato.
> 
> *Too Much to Digest?*
> 
> I remember feeling as though it would take a month to sort through Hollywood Strings when I bought it (about a half hour after its release). It actually took maybe two months! But the sound was lovely and I immediately (was on a movie then) replaced a lot of the strings with Hollywood. At the time of release, about 10 years ago, I don't think there were too many libraries with an articulation list that was nearly as ambitious. Maybe VSL? But VSL sounds completely different.
> 
> Compared with the complexity of other very ambitious libraries today, Hollywood is no longer an outlier. Moreover, many of the major sample libraries now have their own, non-Kontakt players, so that also has become more mainstream.
> 
> *Can They Surpass Themselves?*
> 
> I'm surprised and intrigued, actually, at the idea of EW revisiting the orchestra. Their Hollywood series sounds good to me, but of course they've had a decade to absorb customer requests / complaints and, of course, there's always room for improvement. One plus is the player; it's been a very long time since PLAY caused any trouble that I've seen.
> 
> I guess we'll see.
> 
> [note: I have received free products from East West]




John, I have always used Spitfire (especially their SSO library), and Cinesamples (specifically for the Sony room). I crave for more of that Eastwood/Sony ambiance. Do you think HO Diamond has become somewhat dated to the point some directors would have an issue with it, or is it still worth it?

I'm waiting for Opus, but for the current discount applied to their current Diamond package, I wonder if I should take the plunge now.


----------



## JohnG

Phil81 said:


> Do you think HO Diamond has become somewhat dated to the point some directors would have an issue with it, or is it still worth it?



I guess I have heard really terrible music and really good music produced with just about every library. I have the Hollywood strings and brass -- never bought the winds and ended up using their old EWQLSO winds and percussion for ages. 

I think what repels any director or producer is same-old, not any particular library. Yet another attempt to imitate Big Composer X is just not the ticket nowadays. People don't want a cheap knock-off of some score they heard -- a while back, they actually _did_ want that!

So if you're using any library to do that, of course I think it's bound to come up short. For demos, I think you need something live and organic in your music.

Once you have the gig, though, nobody ever, ever, ever asks what libraries you are using. If you make cool-sounding music, you're good. If it's hackneyed and boring -- the opposite!

Does that answer your question at all?


----------



## José Herring

Phil81 said:


> John, I have always used Spitfire (especially their SSO library), and Cinesamples (specifically for the Sony room). I crave for more of that Eastwood/Sony ambiance. Do you think HO Diamond has become somewhat dated to the point some directors would have an issue with it, or is it still worth it?
> 
> I'm waiting for Opus, but for the current discount applied to their current Diamond package, I wonder if I should take the plunge now.


I know you've addressed this to John but I thought I'd chime in. 

To your question, no. Even the old EWQLSO can still pass in certain context. I don't find that orchestral samples get dated so long as the recording was good to begin with. 

SSO and HO are both about 10 years old and they still sound great. Even better than some of the newer hipper libraries. 

What does date is the way the patches are designed. As JohnG said, HO was ambitious as it tried to do probably more than what could easily be handled when released. It was kind of future proof in a way but in another way, the technology wasn't up to the task to realize the full potential of HO.

The only thing about HO is that it does take a bit of mixing. It's not really an out of the box sounds great library. It's fairly dry sounding compared to libraries like SSO. It's a fairly bright library that takes a little taming down. But the sound isn't dated. Imo it's a bit on the ultra modern side at times. I actually like the Vintage mics in HO. Kind of reminds me of old Hollywood.


----------



## mscp

JohnG said:


> I think what repels any director or producer is same-old, not any particular library. Yet another attempt to imitate Big Composer X is just not the ticket nowadays. People don't want a cheap knock-off of some score they heard -- a while back, they actually _did_ want that!



Not the case over here.

The reason I ask about this particular library is because I want my latest mockup to have that "Warner stage" characteristic so I can paint a better picture for what is coming my way - if that makes any sense at all.


----------



## JohnG

Not sure I understand, Phil? You're in London and seeking to present "Hollywood?" Maybe?


----------



## mscp

JohnG said:


> Not sure I understand, Phil? You're in London and seeking to present "Hollywood?" Maybe?



Hollywood-warner(ish) "air". yup.


----------



## José Herring

Phil81 said:


> Hollywood-infused "air". yup.





Phil81 said:


> Hollywood-warner(ish) "air". yup.


EWHO and Cinesamples will get you that sound without a doubt. 

But, also realize that lately 90% of the Hollywood sound is actually coming from London.


----------



## JohnG

I think it's more in the writing than in the libraries. Certainly the age of a library is immaterial. The original Symphobia still has a great sounds, as do some other libraries of that day. 

People make such noise about legato but that pales in significance in my view to the writing and the actual sounds.

I really don't know how anyone should present himself now. I do feel though that if you want to sell "great big orchestra" but you don't have one, you still need to add live elements. Even just sweetening if that's all you can afford. It's a huge difference.


----------



## mscp

JohnG said:


> I think it's more in the writing than in the libraries. Certainly the age of a library is immaterial. The original Symphobia still has a great sounds, as do some other libraries of that day.
> 
> People make such noise about legato but that pales in significance in my view to the writing and the actual sounds.
> 
> I really don't know how anyone should present himself now. I do feel though that if you want to sell "great big orchestra" but you don't have one, you still need to add live elements. Even just sweetening if that's all you can afford. It's a huge difference.



Most of what I’m writing is bound to get replaced by real musicians (if budget allows). I just need to have a feeling for what Eastwest studios might sound like before the recordings take place.


----------



## JohnG

It's pretty late in London -- are you talking about recording in Los Angeles, at Eastwest studios? Or something else. 

I'm finding your train of thought impenetrable, honestly Phil. I think you'd get more accurate advice from all of us if you were to spell out the concept in more detail. You're using HS, or live or -- ? and your objective is ?? and the person you're presenting to -- is that in the bag or is this speculative? 

Not having a go at you at all -- but I don't really feel comfortable advising anyone without a lot of details, some of which you might rather not share.


----------



## mscp

Sorry for being elusive here John. I'm just super tired as you can probably imagine.
Hope to answer your questions as accurately as possible.




JohnG said:


> are you talking about recording in Los Angeles, at Eastwest studios? Or something else.



Eastwest studios in L.A.



JohnG said:


> You're using HS, or live or -- ? and your objective is ?? and the person you're presenting to -- is that in the bag or is this speculative?



The music is for a young audience's cartoon. The mockups are currently being written exclusively with samples (mostly Cinesamples/Spitfire). Before I present them to the executive producer/director, I would like to treat my mockups to sound a bit like we would hear at Eastwest Studios so there are no major surprises in terms of the ambiance. The project is in the bag. Is it worth getting EWHO just for it?

Does that answer all your questions?


----------



## JohnG

Phil81 said:


> Sorry for being elusive here John. I'm just super tired as you can probably imagine.
> Hope to answer your questions as accurately as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eastwest studios in L.A.
> 
> 
> 
> The music is for a young audience's cartoon. The mockups are currently being written exclusively with samples (mostly Cinesamples/Spitfire). Before I present them to the executive producer/director, I would like to treat my mockups to sound a bit like we would hear at Eastwest Studios so there are no major surprises in terms of the ambiance. The project is in the bag. Is it worth getting EWHO just for it?
> 
> Does that answer all your questions?



Well -- I'm not an engineer. That said, I am skeptical about buying a sample library in the hope it would match a live performance. Unless it's mic'd the same way, it probably wouldn't, I would think.

I can imagine you're totally exhausted. I was up at 4 this morning myself to record in Europe, so am about to pack it in soon as well.


----------



## mscp

JohnG said:


> Well -- I'm not an engineer. That said, I am skeptical about buying a sample library in the hope it would match a live performance. Unless it's mic'd the same way, it probably wouldn't, I would think.



I’m sure it won’t.



JohnG said:


> I can imagine you're totally exhausted. I was up at 4 this morning myself to record in Europe, so am about to pack it in soon as well.



oh gee. sleep well John.


----------



## Cormast

Can't wait to have some news about that Holly Opus !


----------



## I like music

Cormast said:


> Can't wait to have some news about that Holly Opus !



Holly Opus. That rolls off the tongue quite nicely. I'm going to start calling it that.


----------



## jamieboo

Holly O'Pus.
I imagine a late 19th century Irish bacteriologist.


----------



## Jose7822

Definitely like Holly Opus better than the previously suggested names. It has my vote!


----------



## dcoscina

I like music said:


> Holly Opus. That rolls off the tongue quite nicely. I'm going to start calling it that.


me too.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Holly Opus...that sounds like a character in a cheap adult movie.

I’m sticking to HOOPUS


----------



## I like music

hbjdk said:


> Holly Opus...that sounds like a character in a cheap adult movie.
> 
> I’m sticking to HOOPUS



Exactly the reason I will be using Holly Opus.


----------



## Drundfunk

Hoopus poocus


----------



## Jose7822

I like music said:


> Exactly the reason I will be using Holly Opus.



I was about to tell him “even better!”, lol.


----------



## jamieboo

Orchtopus.


----------



## José Herring

We should start a poll to finally decide the official Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition acronym. 

so far we have:

HOOPUS
HOPUS
Holly O'Pus
Orchtopus


----------



## EgM

Don't like any of those, nor any acronym longer than 3 characters... *EW Opus* is good enough for me, there's no other 'Opus' mentions in any of their products. 

_This forum needs like a deep maintained Wiki just for VI acronyms as is lol_


----------



## NoamL

HOOPUS!



Phil81 said:


> John, I have always used Spitfire (especially their SSO library), and Cinesamples (specifically for the Sony room). I crave for more of that Eastwood/Sony ambiance. Do you think HO Diamond has become somewhat dated to the point some directors would have an issue with it, or is it still worth it?
> 
> I'm waiting for Opus, but for the current discount applied to their current Diamond package, I wonder if I should take the plunge now.



If you want the sound of FOX Newman try the QL Spaces preset "Hollywood Stage Large" (under Studios -> True Stereo). The "Culver Scoring Stage" preset (not true stereo) is SONY. At least... that's what it sounds like! 

HWS is very good, I'm not sure you'll like HWB more than CineBrass though. That LA Scoring Stage sound is built on a bit of depth and separation for the brass... they actually have more floorspace than AIR, just a shorter ceiling.


----------



## José Herring

NoamL said:


> That LA Scoring Stage sound is built on a bit of depth and separation for the brass... they actually have more floorspace than AIR, just a shorter ceiling.



Now I'm interested. 

I was listening to some Danny Elfman recordings done at Sony and I was really like the depth of the space. Now I know why.


----------



## mscp

José Herring said:


> We should start a poll to finally decide the official Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition acronym.
> 
> so far we have:
> 
> HOOPUS
> HOPUS
> Holly O'Pus
> Orchtopus



Why not we start the habit of writing out everything, primarily to help those who use the SEARCH bar to look up for information before posting questions?

I'm soooooo going to get **** for it. (mild premonition) lol.


----------



## NoamL

José Herring said:


> Now I'm interested.
> 
> I was listening to some Danny Elfman recordings done at Sony and I was really like the depth of the space. Now I know why.



Made this a long time ago, IIRC it is at proper scale.

Keep in mind the pic of AIR just shows the orchestral floor space. There are balcony pews coming off each side of the hexagon. That plus the height and the complexity of the space creates the sound...


----------



## mscp

NoamL said:


> HOOPUS!
> 
> 
> 
> If you want the sound of FOX Newman try the QL Spaces preset "Hollywood Stage Large" (under Studios -> True Stereo). The "Culver Scoring Stage" preset (not true stereo) is SONY. At least... that's what it sounds like!
> 
> HWS is very good, I'm not sure you'll like HWB more than CineBrass though. That LA Scoring Stage sound is built on a bit of depth and separation for the brass... they actually have more floorspace than AIR, just a shorter ceiling.




I've decided to get Spaces II instead of the Hollywood Orchestra Diamond package. Good call Noam!


----------



## szczaw

Just pus.


----------



## Johnny

jamieboo said:


> Orchtopus.


Anyone watch Troel's (8Dio) video on why word builder doesn't really matter? Sooooooooo good!!!!! I think somewhere in there he used this "Orchtopuuuuussssss!!!!!" With a choir singing it, and it the context of a mix he provided a valid point for epic music writing and word builder- it just doesn't matter in the end...  Hence why OT among others just smash out _sacred vocables_ with RR and it just works  (Sorry, not to highjack the thread, just made me laugh reading your Orchtopus) Nice one! -J-


----------



## dcoscina

HWOP


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

dcoscina said:


> HWOP



I've transcribed a reduction of your piece:

HOP


----------



## jamieboo

Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition can be gloriously and messily reduced down to...

Orchwood Option.


----------



## dcoscina

HOOE... never mind...


----------



## mcalis

I'll only call it HOOE if it is a bitch to work with. 

Otherwise I'm sticking with hoopus.


----------



## John Longley

José Herring said:


> We should start a poll to finally decide the official Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition acronym.
> 
> so far we have:
> 
> HOOPUS
> HOPUS
> Holly O'Pus
> Orchtopus


I know I speak for all of us when I say Orchtopus wins. The thread is now the center of all Orchtopus hoopla.


----------



## Jose7822

HOOE or Holly Opus. They’re the only options for me.


----------



## I like music

This is like a couple arguing about what they will name their baby. The difference is, they know their baby will be here in 9 months.

HOOPUS/Holly O'pus/Whorechestra / Orchestrata / HOOEY, whatever you want to call it ... we don't know the gestation period here. Could be years, haha.


----------



## Piotrek K.

I like music said:


> Whorechestra



If it sounds like this I'm taking it!


----------



## I like music

Piotrek K. said:


> If it sounds like this I'm taking it!



Instabuy!


----------



## dcoscina

mcalis said:


> I'll only call it HOOE if it is a bitch to work with.
> 
> Otherwise I'm sticking with hoopus.


Hoopus sounds like an auto immune disease. 😆


----------



## doctoremmet

Knee deep in the hoopus. Wasn’t that line in some forgotten eighties hit record?


----------



## Audio Birdi

HollyOpus sounds like a magic spell! :D Sticking with it too!


----------



## I like music

I reckon Holly Opus will be a contender to knock HOOPUS off its throne. I'm all in with Holly Opus (or Holly O'Pus if you're Irish)


----------



## I like music

Holly Opus because then it allows us to switch effortlessly to "Holly Oops" if they fuck it up.


----------



## AndyP

Why not just *H*?
So as a counterpart to *N*?

Both are in the same league!


----------



## Kent




----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## I like music

doctoremmet said:


>


Please show me how you did this? Is there a gif-meme generator somewhere? PizzStrSlur NonVib lol (giving me HO patch-related PTSD now...)


----------



## doctoremmet

Online Animated GIF maker


Online GIF maker where you can create animated GIFs, banners, slideshows from sequence of images. Upload frames and make a GIF or merge and edit existing GIFs




ezgif.com


----------



## pmcrockett

I like music said:


> Holly Opus because then it allows us to switch effortlessly to "Holly Oops" if they fuck it up.


Or ... *O*rchestra *OP*u*S* *E*dition (*E*ast*W*est). OOPS EEW.


----------



## I like music

pmcrockett said:


> Or ... *O*rchestra *OP*u*S* *E*dition (*E*ast*W*est). OOPS EEW.


Virtual cooties.


----------



## pmcrockett

My serious suggestion, though, is HOPE (*H*ollywood *OP*us *E*dition).


----------



## Page Lyn Turner

What about EWOE?


----------



## Ashermusic

Man, you guys have a lot of time on your hands.


----------



## doctoremmet

Ashermusic said:


> Man, you guys have a lot of time on your hands.


Time is money. Well, I don’t have the latter... so all I can still waste is the first.


----------



## Jose7822

Ashermusic said:


> Man, you guys have a lot of time on your hands.



There’s a pandemic going on after all .


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

SitilkerX said:


> What about EWOE?


Or AWOL, if it becomes eternally delayed like Play Pro


----------



## Kent

Just had a session with EW Tech support* and they confirmed a "later fall" release for Opus.



*(Very pleasant and competent, though ultimately my problem that we were examining—the odd Play RAM cap on systems with sufficient RAM—is still unfixed and will likely be until the Opus release)


----------



## gst98

kmaster said:


> Just had a session with EW Tech support* and they confirmed a "later fall" release for Opus.
> 
> 
> 
> *(Very pleasant and competent, though ultimately my problem that we were examining—the odd Play RAM cap on systems with sufficient RAM—is still unfixed and will likely be until the Opus release)



We might not be getting Play "Pro", but sounds then like there will be at least some sort of engine improvements which is a good sign.


----------



## doctoremmet

So, Opus will basically be a (huge) content update, yes? So within the same Play6 environment? Will there be a Gold version as well? Does anyone know this?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

doctoremmet said:


> So, Opus will basically be a (huge) content update, yes? So within the same Play6 environment? Will there be a Gold version as well? Does anyone know this?


As for the content in Opus, here's the link to Nick's post in this thread:





Hollywood orchestra opus edition and hollywood orchestrator


To me, this is a myth. It isn’t hard to work with IF you are a player rather than a step enterer, once you know the patches that work best for you and use an articulation switcher. I can’t tell you how many times I start with something else and then end up switching back to HO. Which patches...




vi-control.net





The two other questions I'm not sure anybody knows the answer to yet.


----------



## Markrs

doctoremmet said:


> So, Opus will basically be a (huge) content update, yes? So within the same Play6 environment? Will there be a Gold version as well? Does anyone know this?


As Composer Cloud is Gold with thr close mic added and the promos have said we will be getting it, I assume there will be a gold version released at the same time.


----------



## doctoremmet

Markrs said:


> As Composer Cloud is Gold with thr close mic added and the promos have said we will be getting it, I assume there will be a gold version released at the same time.


Thanks! Here’s hoping...


----------



## Markrs

doctoremmet said:


> Thanks! Here’s hoping...


In fact on CCx you have to down load the Gold library then Goldx library to have the extra mic, so in fact everything on CCX is the same Gold library you have.


----------



## NoamL

Updated with EW Studio 1 (the recording location of HWO + HOOPUS)... to scale to the best of my knowledge/ability...


----------



## muziksculp

Late Fall ... Hmmm... I'm guessing we won't see it before November.


----------



## Piotrek K.

NoamL said:


> Updated with EW Studio 1 (the recording location of HWO + HOOPUS)... to scale to the best of my knowledge/ability...



HWO in general has that fat, but rather dry and not very airy sound (I'm talking about gold so no extra mics). Now I think I understand why. Very interesting, thanks


----------



## I like music

I have no idea around acoustics, but those diagrams are interesting. Just from having the libraries and hearing the sound, I had assumed trackdown to be much much smaller than EW St 1. Also didn't realise AIR was that 'small' (again I'm comparing to trackdown). Sounds bigger? 

I know size of room is probably only one of many many many variables, but still, it was all very different to how I imagined it.


----------



## Cormast

muziksculp said:


> Late Fall ... Hmmm... I'm guessing we won't see it before November.


Probably even before December.


----------



## shropshirelad

My hunch would be a launch after BF - the perfect time to sell subscription services.


----------



## J-M

I really need to upgrade to the extra mics when I have the funds. With Chamber strings for smaller arrangements I've been very happy with my string setup...just need a little more "scratchiness" for HWS.


----------



## SlHarder

J-M said:


> I really need to upgrade to the extra mics


I had CC and then upgraded to CCX. That added just the Close mics. And Close caused me to revisit and improve several several projects including getting the "scratchiness" you are seeking in HWS.


----------



## Jose7822

EW's 60% Sale ends in 3 days!! If you were thinking about grabbing HO Diamond, now is the time. 

Or wait until the next sale in a few days, lol. They'll definitely have a Black Friday/Cyber Monday sale, and that's around the corner .


----------



## lettucehat

Hm I think i saw it was ending earlier this summer, but then it didn't. Personally I can't pull the trigger on HO stuff until we know the upgrade path(s) to OPUS.


----------



## Ashermusic

ALTM said:


> Hm I think i saw it was ending earlier this summer, but then it didn't. Personally I can't pull the trigger on HO stuff until we know the upgrade path(s) to OPUS.



At these prices, even if it never comes out, HO Diamond is a bargain.


----------



## lettucehat

I agree, but in my case I'm in the slightly awkward position of owning HB *silver* (so, many of the essential articulations), CCX subscription (I have Gold if I need it), and combine that with EW's somewhat unusual upgrade pricing, plus the fact that I have my needs pretty well covered with other libraries, HB Diamond is kind of a borderline "would be nice" purchase until I know more. Especially after a long summer of indulgent purchases.

By contrast, I just outright bought HS Diamond earlier in this sale and don't care if the path to OPUS is cheap or not - very glad to have it as-is, much like you're saying.


----------



## Jose7822

ALTM said:


> Hm I think i saw it was ending earlier this summer, but then it didn't. Personally I can't pull the trigger on HO stuff until we know the upgrade path(s) to OPUS.



I got an email from AudioDeluxe saying that it would end in 3 days, but EW might extend it until the release of OPUS. Who knows? No pressure, especially if you’re already covered with other libraries. Just wanted to spread the news .


----------



## sIR dORT

Any updates on the release date?


----------



## John Longley

sIR dORT said:


> Any updates on the release date?


0


----------



## sIR dORT

Great can't wait to get my hands on it when it comes out in 8 years


----------



## SlHarder

sIR dORT said:


> Any updates on the release date?


With Spitfire you can hear a new product coming everyday for a month ahead and 500 miles away. With EastWest it just drops on your doorstep one morning out of the blue.


----------



## muziksculp

I don't expect anything new from EW this month.


----------



## Chungus

I have a theory. They've been releasing those CC tutorials every week since the first one, with the latest one dropping just today. What if these are meant as a prelude to HOOPUS, to stir up interest?

If I'm right, there is one tutorial left for next week, with the release then dropping before the end of the month.


----------



## José Herring

Now I'm kind of hoping they take a while. I don't think I can handle any more purchases atm.


----------



## muziksculp

José Herring said:


> Now I'm kind of hoping they take a while. I don't think I can handle any more purchases atm.



hehe... Don't worry, your safe from contracting any Hoopus this month.


----------



## I like music

muziksculp said:


> hehe... Don't worry, your safe from contracting any Hoopus this month.



There's no vaccine.


----------



## I like music

José Herring said:


> Now I'm kind of hoping they take a while. I don't think I can handle any more purchases atm.



Wait, what have you purchased recently?


----------



## José Herring

I like music said:


> Wait, what have you purchased recently?


Let's just say that what I had set aside for HOOPUS, when I realized that "coming this fall" didn't mean September and more looking like Dec. 20th if they make it by fall, I went ahead and started experimenting with other libraries seeing how EWHO gold was my only major library before sept.


----------



## Henk

PLAY VSTI is a relatively backward plug-in；
Key switch is Hollywood’s weakness,
If it can solve the delay problem, the dirty sound problem......
I will still keep new verson


----------



## Jose7822

I just noticed that this thread got moved to another forum (Sample Talk). I mean, it’s all talk now lol.


----------



## jamieboo

This may've been discussed before, and it is all pointless speculation, but how do you think the 230gb will be constituted?
I'm just hoping I'll have sufficient storage!
My samples (mainly EastWest, mainly Hollywood) are on 3x 500gb EVOs.
HO Strings and Percussion Diamond are on one.
HO Brass and Woodwind Diamond on another.
And HO Harp, Symphonic Orchestra Plat and other bits and pieces on the third.
If Opus has a whole new 1st Violins section, that probably means that particular SSD will no longer be large enough to accommodate Strings AND Percussion. That's fine I reckon I can move percussion elsewhere. But is there a chance that the Strings, expanded by OPUS, maybe too much even for a 500gb altogether?
Despite no evidence on which to base a reckoning, what do we reckon? 

Thanks


----------



## José Herring

jamieboo said:


> This may've been discussed before, and it is all pointless speculation, but how do you think the 230gb will be constituted?
> I'm just hoping I'll have sufficient storage!
> My samples (mainly EastWest, mainly Hollywood) are on 3x 500gb EVOs.
> HO Strings and Percussion Diamond are on one.
> HO Brass and Woodwind Diamond on another.
> And HO Harp, Symphonic Orchestra Plat and other bits and pieces on the third.
> If Opus has a whole new 1st Violins section, that probably means that particular SSD will no longer be large enough to accommodate Strings AND Percussion. That's fine I reckon I can move percussion elsewhere. But is there a chance that the Strings, expanded by OPUS, maybe too much even for a 500gb altogether?
> Despite no evidence on which to base a reckoning, what do we reckon?
> 
> Thanks


I finally had to get 2 terabytes of external storage to handle the storage demands of libraries these days. It seems to be the sweet spot for me.

Internally I had 2x 500gigabyte NVMe's and man that got eaten up like crazy. Even housing two sections of EWHO on each drive used it up. I had to think too hard about where I wanted to put what.

So for right now 1tb drives for sample streaming is the cutoff limit for me. That way I don't have to worry about if the download will fit. 

So I got the 2 terabytes in an external drive. I could have Raid 0 it which I think would have treated it as one big drive rather than 2 individual drives. I may do that in the future but for now I just have it in standard setup and it's working really well on USB 3.1 gen 2 port.


----------



## Jose7822

jamieboo said:


> This may've been discussed before, and it is all pointless speculation, but how do you think the 230gb will be constituted?
> I'm just hoping I'll have sufficient storage!
> My samples (mainly EastWest, mainly Hollywood) are on 3x 500gb EVOs.
> HO Strings and Percussion Diamond are on one.
> HO Brass and Woodwind Diamond on another.
> And HO Harp, Symphonic Orchestra Plat and other bits and pieces on the third.
> If Opus has a whole new 1st Violins section, that probably means that particular SSD will no longer be large enough to accommodate Strings AND Percussion. That's fine I reckon I can move percussion elsewhere. But is there a chance that the Strings, expanded by OPUS, maybe too much even for a 500gb altogether?
> Despite no evidence on which to base a reckoning, what do we reckon?
> 
> Thanks



I think you’ll be fine. The entire HO Diamond, plus OPUS, will be just under 1TB. I’m sure EW will allow you to distribute it across your 3 SSD’s. The only problem for you is that you won’t be able to install much else afterwards, since filling up the drives too much slows them down.


----------



## jamieboo

Jose7822 said:


> I think you’ll be fine. The entire HO Diamond, plus OPUS, will be just under 1TB. I’m sure EW will allow you to distribute it across your 3 SSD’s. The only problem for you is that you won’t be able to install much else afterwards, since filling up the drives too much slows them down.


That's what I figured. I'll have to move things around.
As for the drives slowing down, I didn't think that rule really applied if a drive is effectively read only?


----------



## szczaw

jamieboo said:


> My samples (mainly EastWest, mainly Hollywood) are on 3x 500gb EVOs.



I have one 3.2 tb fusion-io drive.


----------



## Jose7822

jamieboo said:


> That's what I figured. I'll have to move things around.
> As for the drives slowing down, I didn't think that rule really applied if a drive is effectively read only?



Actually, I think you’re right and it only affects write speeds. I still try not to fill up the drive more than 70% when I add samples in it. Just a rule of thumb that kinda stuck with me but might not be as important these days.


----------



## Nemoy

Is HOOPUS going to be replacing EWHO or is this going to be an entirely new product with no original sample content from EWHO?


----------



## Jose7822

Nemoy said:


> Is HOOPUS going to be replacing EWHO or is this going to be an entirely new product with no original sample content from EWHO?



No. OPUS is an expansion to HO, which is where HOOPUS comes from.


----------



## jamieboo

Chungus said:


> I have a theory. They've been releasing those CC tutorials every week since the first one, with the latest one dropping just today. What if these are meant as a prelude to HOOPUS, to stir up interest?
> 
> If I'm right, there is one tutorial left for next week, with the release then dropping before the end of the month.



I've wondered about this too!
Well yesterday the Gospel Choir Tutorial dropped, which, going by the pattern of the previous tips, is the last in the series.
I'm sure whatever timeframe they're working to has determined to some extent the release of these little tutorials. Little beats of interest leading up to something!
Well, we'll see what happens next. I'm sure they can muster further procrastinations if need be, to keep the beat going indefinitely!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

The Gospel Choir one might be my favorite one, just in terms of how different it is from the other ones. Really showcases Ryan's range - well done @Rtomproductions (and to your mom for that killer piano part)!


----------



## Zamenhof

What do you think The Orchestrator is? The announcement only says, "Orchestrator uses multi-samples (not loops) to automate compositions." Could it be something like Sonuscore The Orchestra? Is it a separate plugin? Who is it targeted at?


----------



## Chungus

jamieboo said:


> I've wondered about this too!
> Well yesterday the Gospel Choir Tutorial dropped, which, going by the pattern of the previous tips, is the last in the series.
> I'm sure whatever timeframe they're working to has determined to some extent the release of these little tutorials. Little beats of interest leading up to something!
> Well, we'll see what happens next. I'm sure they can muster further procrastinations if need be, to keep the beat going indefinitely!


I'm not 100% on this, but I think the tutorials have all dropped on a monday, too. So we may see HOOPUS come the 26th.


----------



## dcoscina

They had better hurry up with some news because if Spitfire drops something like the LSO Abbey Road library on Oct 22, I dunno how many people will have money or interest in buying this.... just saying...


----------



## John R Wilson

Chungus said:


> I'm not 100% on this, but I think the tutorials have all dropped on a monday, too. So we may see HOOPUS come the 26th.



hope so, that would be right near my birthday!


----------



## John R Wilson

dcoscina said:


> They had better hurry up with some news because if Spitfire drops something like the LSO Abbey Road library on Oct 22, I dunno how many people will have money or interest in buying this.... just saying...



It certainly has been a long time now and still no update from them.


----------



## muziksculp

I doubt they will release Hoopus this month. They are too slow


----------



## José Herring

I have faith. It's going to be good. Just take your time EW. Knock it out of the park. 

If they get it right it doesn't matter how many other releases come out in the mean time. People will still line up to buy it spending their last dime. I know I have and I will in the future do just that.


----------



## peladio

As someone who still prefers Hollywood Strings to any of Spitfire's 74 string libraries..I'll wait for sure


----------



## I like music

peladio said:


> As someone who still prefers Hollywood Strings to any of Spitfire's 74 string libraries..I'll wait for sure



75 tomorrow, probably!


----------



## robgb

Whatever this thing is, it had better be pretty spectacular. Otherwise, ho-hum.


----------



## dcoscina

peladio said:


> As someone who still prefers Hollywood Strings to any of Spitfire's 74 string libraries..I'll wait for sure


I would say that except for BBCSO Strings. They are really nice and respond very well. But yeah, HSO are still pretty spectacular.


----------



## muziksculp

The new Opus additional content is 230 GB of brand new samples, I can't find what the size of the original EWHO. Plat. version is, anyone have that info. ?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

muziksculp said:


> The new Opus additional content is 230 GB of brand new samples, I can't find what the size of the original EWHO. Plat. version is, anyone have that info. ?


I seem to recall it's 680GB. It's in the HO Diamond manual.

Edit:
Yep, it says "approximately 680GB" in the manual.


----------



## muziksculp

hbjdk said:


> I seem to recall it's 680GB. It's in the HO Diamond manual.



Thanks for the info. 

So that put Hoopus at 910 GB. That's quite a heavyweight Orchestral Library.


----------



## jamieboo

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> So that put Hoopus at 910 GB. That's quite a heavyweight Orchestral Library.



That's if it's a straight addition.
But I recall Quantum Leap's post back on page 6 in which he said:

"The biggest problem with HO is the ridiculous amount of patches. HO has some string patches that only the best computers could handle at the time. Even if we had used Kontakt, that would have been the case. To date, no one has made such deeply sampled string legato patches with 5 dynamics, multiple string positions, vibrato and non vibrato. Not many users are using these mega patches from the original release. They are stellar, though. The new expansion significantly improves and adds to the current HO. The new interface allows control that you don’t have now. It is Laser focused on orchestral instruments. Many of the old patches are gone (but you’ll still have a legacy version to access them). And you will be using the bigger patches, which will run easily."

So I'm wondering if their streamlining will mean that the original 680GB is reduced. Although maybe not, because he said everything will remain in a legacy version. Hmmm.
For some reason I imagine the total being not much bigger than 800GB, but that is an estimate based on NOTHING!


----------



## I like music

jamieboo said:


> And you will be using the bigger patches, which will run easily."



Purge, purge, purge, purge, purge ... PLEEEEASE!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> So that put Hoopus at 910 GB. That's quite a heavyweight Orchestral Library.


thats are par with bbcso with far less mic positions


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Here's hoping for an option to use 16 bit samples in Hollywood Orchestra Diamond for all microphone positions. Then maybe a button in the GUI of each patch to switch between 16 bit and 24 bit samples.

Of course this means we'll have to keep both the 16 and 24 bit samples on our hard drives. But it's cheaper to buy hard drives than to buy a pc with 128 GB ram, a rockin' CPU etc.

Also it would put less strain on one's computer while working on bigger projects.


----------



## Jose7822

hbjdk said:


> Here's hoping for an option to use 16 bit samples in Hollywood Orchestra Diamond for all microphone positions. Then maybe a button in the GUI of each patch to switch between 16 bit and 24 bit samples.
> 
> Of course this means we'll have to keep both the 16 and 24 bit samples on our hard drives. But it's cheaper to buy hard drives than to buy a pc with 128 GB ram, a rockin' CPU etc.
> 
> Also it would put less strain on one's computer while working on bigger projects.



That’s already an option in HO Diamond .


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Jose7822 said:


> That’s already an option in HO Diamond .


The option is in EW Symphonic Orchestra, but not in HO sadly.

Edit:
Or rather: EWSO Platinum Plus comes with both 16 and 24 bit samples, but I don't actually know if you can switch between them (I don't own the lib)


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

It would be great if the GUI for each instrument listed the boundaries for each velocity layer:






I'm sure Nick & co. have notes on these velocity layer boundaries already, so it's a question of coding this new "for orchestra tailor-made" version of PLAY something like this:

1) Make a new box in the GUI for each instrument, and name it Dynamics

2) When the user presses a key on their MIDI-keyboard, check the velocity of the note the user plays; then check which velocity layer the note belongs to (by using the boundaries pr. velocity layer as in the photo above) and write the corresponding dynamics symbol in the Dynamics box in the GUI

Wouldn't that be great? 

Best of all, it will not require mega complicated coding as far as I can tell. It seems pretty straight forward to make.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Add a "Hairpin Creator" tool to the new GUI also (a total copy/paste of Cinesamples' idea, but it's a good idea...  Look here.)

Example:
Start on pp - use 3 seconds to transition to mf - use 2 seconds to transition back down to pp.

Not sure how much work this would be.


----------



## Jose7822

hbjdk said:


> The option is in EW Symphonic Orchestra, but not in HO sadly.
> 
> Edit:
> Or rather: EWSO Platinum Plus comes with both 16 and 24 bit samples, but I don't actually know if you can switch between them (I don't own the lib)



You’re right. I could’ve sworn you could switch bit depths in HO Diamond. I just checked and there is no option to do so. What you CAN do is use the Gold version for 16 bit samples. But that’s just more work.

I have EWQLSO Plus as well and yes, you can switch between 16 and 24 bit samples on the fly, for sure!!


----------



## Rtomproductions

ALittleNightMusic said:


> The Gospel Choir one might be my favorite one, just in terms of how different it is from the other ones. Really showcases Ryan's range - well done @Rtomproductions (and to your mom for that killer piano part)!



Thanks for the kind words! Also, I'm still working on that template. It should be released...soon  

I may also make one for the Gospel Choir piece as it differs so radically from my standard template (you could create all the other CC tips demos with a single template), but that'll be after we see how the standard template fares. It would also need more substantial retooling to maximize compatibility, but it could certainly be done.


----------



## easyrider

Any ETA for this ?


----------



## Marsen

I wonder, wether I should get Hollywood Orchestra at this pricepoint.
( 318,-$) today at audiodeluxe, if the 15% off works.

I already own SSO, SStO, Cinesamples Orchestra, the Symphobia's and some OT, 8Dio' s.

I don't have experience with East West Orchestral libraries, but I do have the Ethnic Range (RA, Gypsy, Silk).
So, question to owners from Hollywood Orchestra: Do you think this would add something to my palette?
I know that HO is an almost 10 year old library, but Symphobia is too, and I love the Symphobia 's.

Seems like a steal, but I'm a bit worried, the workflow could dissapoint me.
I'm used to mainly working on Kontakt.


----------



## Ashermusic

Marsen said:


> I wonder, wether I should get Hollywood Orchestra at this pricepoint.
> ( 318,-$) today at audiodeluxe, if the 15% off works.
> 
> I already own SSO, SStO, Cinesamples Orchestra, the Symphobia's and some OT, 8Dio' s.
> 
> I don't have experience with East West Orchestral libraries, but I do have the Ethnic Range (RA, Gypsy, Silk).
> So, question to owners from Hollywood Orchestra: Do you think this would add something to my palette?
> I know that HO is an almost 10 year old library, but Symphobia is too, and I love the Symphobia 's.
> 
> Seems like a steal, but I'm a bit worried, the workflow could dissapoint me.
> I'm used to mainly working on Kontakt.



It does need a different workflow to be best utilized, building your own multis, employing articulation switching, etc. but I actually prefer this because I make my own choices.


----------



## Marsen

Yes, I thought so.
You should take your time learning to use the library and building own patches. 
I made this experience with Cinesamples versus Spitfire workflow. 

I also ask, cause the update path to the new library may be interesting .
But I wonder, if the articulations/sounds add something to my toolkit.


----------



## Ashermusic

Marsen said:


> Yes, I thought so.
> You should take your time learning to use the library and building own patches.
> I made this experience with Cinesamples versus Spitfire workflow.
> 
> I also ask, cause the update path to the new library may be interesting .
> But I wonder, if the articulations/sounds add something to my toolkit.



That is entirely subjective but they are incredibly articulation rich and I love the sound.


----------



## Beans

Marsen said:


> So, question to owners from Hollywood Orchestra: Do you think this would add something to my palette?



Is there something you've felt is missing, or are you simply interested in the good deal? 

If you have SSO, SStO, and the Cinesamples range, you're already pretty covered. Of those, I only have SSO (Chamber), and the primary thing you'd get out of EWHO without really scrutinizing things is the dry space as compared with AIR.

Sure, EWHO has some patches that SSO does not (flute runs, for example), but the inverse is also true (overblown flute).

With that said, I think the EWHO collection at current price is easily at the top for the best VI values of all time.


----------



## jaketanner

Has there been any indication of the upgrade price? For those that don't have HO and want it...we pay roughly $320 for the Diamond edition...not sure if it comes with solos as I see on the EW site they are an add-on...then what if OPUS is an additional $4-500? Is the library still worth it then? And it's the Play engine...LOL

Truth be told, I was listening to a few mockups made with HO from people that know what they're doing with it, and it does sound quite nice...


----------



## I like music

Marsen said:


> Yes, I thought so.
> You should take your time learning to use the library and building own patches.
> I made this experience with Cinesamples versus Spitfire workflow.
> 
> I also ask, cause the update path to the new library may be interesting .
> But I wonder, if the articulations/sounds add something to my toolkit.



It sounds as good as (if not better than) most of the biggest stuff other top devs are coming out with, to my ear at least. Even though I don't use it (RAM & HD space is very low on my machine) the _sound_ is incredible. 

In my very amateur tests, EHWO seems to respond better to absolutely any reverb than other libraries I own. Extremely versatile in that sense too.

Tons of articulations. Ultimately, once you figured out a workflow, you could do mockups of absolutely topnotch quality.


----------



## Casiquire

jaketanner said:


> Has there been any indication of the upgrade price? For those that don't have HO and want it...we pay roughly $320 for the Diamond edition...not sure if it comes with solos as I see on the EW site they are an add-on...then what if OPUS is an additional $4-500? Is the library still worth it then? And it's the Play engine...LOL
> 
> Truth be told, I was listening to a few mockups made with HO from people that know what they're doing with it, and it does sound quite nice...


It's a great set of libraries, but don't expect much in the way of reasonable upgrades


----------



## Beans

jaketanner said:


> For those that don't have HO and want it...we pay roughly $320 for the Diamond edition...not sure if it comes with solos as I see on the EW site they are an add-on.



EWHO Brass has multiple solo patches (various shorts, longs, and effects) for cimbasso, horn, trombone, trumpet, and tuba. EWHO Woodwinds are only solo instruments (12 instruments as well as second flute).

The "extra cost" solo instruments are the harp, cello, and violin.



jaketanner said:


> And it's the Play engine...LOL



Didn't you just buy BBCSO? Play is pretty rich compared to Spitfire Audio's plugin.


----------



## szczaw

jaketanner said:


> Has there been any indication of the upgrade price? For those that don't have HO and want it...we pay roughly $320 for the Diamond edition...not sure if it comes with solos as I see on the EW site they are an add-on...then what if OPUS is an additional $4-500? Is the library still worth it then? And it's the Play engine...LOL



I'll pass and resigne myself to exploring the mere 680 gbs of content


----------



## Marsen

Beans said:


> Is there something you've felt is missing, or are you simply interested in the good deal?



I guess, it's just the good deal honestly.
It's tempting, but it may be not necessary.


----------



## jaketanner

Beans said:


> EWHO Brass has multiple solo patches (various shorts, longs, and effects) for cimbasso, horn, trombone, trumpet, and tuba. EWHO Woodwinds are only solo instruments (12 instruments as well as second flute).
> 
> The "extra cost" solo instruments are the harp, cello, and violin.
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you just buy BBCSO? Play is pretty rich compared to Spitfire Audio's plugin.


Yes I have BBCSO Pro...far easier to get around in the SF player. I had the cloud for a while and still have Gypsy library...not that I'm unfamiliar with it, just really hate the articulation mapping...don't think they changed that since it's an add-on to HO...you need HO to use OPUS, so for them to completely redo their articulation mapping is doubtful...also not sure if you can purge in Play either...but not like you can in SF's player.


----------



## Jose7822

If you’re a Cubase user, the Articulation Management issue with EW libraries becomes a non-issue. You’ll have to spend time creating them, but it’s so fast and easy once you get proficient at Expression Maps (which doesn’t really take long to begin with).

On the other hand, if you’re working with a DAW that doesn’t have a true Articulation Manager, such as Studio One, then it is a bit of a PITA to work with EW libraries just due to the sheer amount of articulations you have available. There’s not just 1, nor 2, nor 5 Legato patches, but several (at least for the Strings library). Same with the other articulations. It’s SUPER comprehensive. And that’s where you get that realism you hear from the demos. But again, it comes at a cost of being a more complex library.

That said, EW did say that they are working on simplifying the amount of articulations available to one (or two?) very powerful patches. I’m assuming this means combining several articulation patches into one that can handle various situations with more complex scripting under the hood in order to make them more playable. That’s just speculation though.


----------



## jaketanner

Jose7822 said:


> If you’re a Cubase user, the Articulation Management issue with EW libraries becomes a non-issue. You’ll have to spend time creating them, but it’s so fast and easy once you get proficient at Expression Maps (which doesn’t really take long to begin with).
> 
> On the other hand, if you’re working with a DAW that doesn’t have a true Articulation Manager, such as Studio One, then it is a bit of a PITA to work with EW libraries just due to the sheer amount of articulations you have available. There’s not just 1, nor 2, nor 5 Legato patches, but several (at least for the Strings library). Same with the other articulations. It’s SUPER comprehensive. And that’s where you get that realism you hear from the demos. But again, it comes at a cost of being a more complex library.
> 
> That said, EW did say that they are working on simplifying the amount of articulations available to one (or two?) very powerful patches. I’m assuming this means combining several articulation patches into one that can handle various situations with more complex scripting under the hood in order to make them more playable. That’s just speculation though.


If that last part is true, it will be worth taking a look at once it’s released.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

How do you guys feel about the HS Diamond spiccatos? 
No matter what I try they sound anemic.


----------



## Jose7822

hbjdk said:


> How do you guys feel about the HS Diamond spiccatos?
> No matter what I try they sound anemic.



I don’t find them anemic, at least not compared to NOVO, EWQL SO and Jaeger (which are the other string libraries I own that are not ethnic nor solo strings). But if you need more attack, then you could just add a transient shaper to that track. That should do the trick.


----------



## José Herring

hbjdk said:


> How do you guys feel about the HS Diamond spiccatos?
> No matter what I try they sound anemic.


It is because you are probably misusing the articulation because in the sample world spiccato doesn't mean what it should mean.

So it sounds like you want an on the bow staccato or a marcato patch if you're looking for power shorts. Also, staccatisimo if you're looking for strong extremely short shorts. If you want light and bouncing use spiccato.


----------



## gst98

Marsen said:


> I already own SSO, SStO, Cinesamples Orchestra, the Symphobia's and some OT, 8Dio' s.



HWO is closest to SSO in terms of size of players, and with the strings even other libraries that have the same number of players as HWS they don't sound as big as HWS. That can be good for some things, bad for others. Of course SSO is very wet, HWO is very dry

But, if you ever find you self annoyed at SSO with a clunky legato line, HWS and HWB are the answer to those. Want better (seemless) vibrato fades? Want long notes that don't have wierd non-adjustable attacks? Amazing string runs? Thats what HWO will give you over what you have right now.



hbjdk said:


> How do you guys feel about the HS Diamond spiccatos?
> No matter what I try they sound anemic.



Have you used close mics on shorts? they change the sound quite dramatically.


----------



## Ashermusic

With HO Diamond, the mic choices do give you quite different sounds. It could just be that this Shawn Murphy guy knew a little about how to use microphones with an orchestra


----------



## Zamenhof

Jose7822 said:


> You’ll have to spend time creating them, but it’s so fast and easy once you get proficient at Expression Maps.



Do you have a tip on how to get started with EWHO, Cubase and Expression Maps? I find it hard to find a decent guide. I have Babylonwaves which should save me some work, right? I love the sound of HO, but also find BBCSO so much easier to work with.


----------



## pcarrilho

Zamenhof said:


> Do you have a tip on how to get started with EWHO, Cubase and Expression Maps? I find it hard to find a decent guide. I have Babylonwaves which should save me some work, right? I love the sound of HO, but also find BBCSO so much easier to work with.



BBCSO is much easier to work with, but HO sounds much better (at least to me)  
Decisions... decisions 

But what is you mail problem with HO? witch paths to use? Articulations? Mics?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Thanks for the tips guys! I've started another thread so as not to hijack this one further!  






Spiccatos in Hollywood Strings


I'm a beginner doing a mockup of this melody with Hollywood Strings Diamond: Here's what I've got so far (normalized WAV, watch out for high volume!): My problem is, I don't know if it's fine or horrible! :) What do you think? I tried Spiccato tight/loose, Staccato tight/loose...




vi-control.net


----------



## Jose7822

Zamenhof said:


> Do you have a tip on how to get started with EWHO, Cubase and Expression Maps? I find it hard to find a decent guide. I have Babylonwaves which should save me some work, right? I love the sound of HO, but also find BBCSO so much easier to work with.



BBCSO is definitely easier, for sure! I also agree that HO sounds better.

Personally, I roll my own Expression Maps, when using Cubase, rather than using other people’s. It fits my workflow better. But that’s me .

The easiest way to get started with HO is to simply go into the Template PRO folder and load all the articulations found for a particular instrument into a single instance of PLAY. For example, for Violins I, load up all the Template PRO articulations into a single PLAY instance. Same for Violins II, etc. Do the same for the rest of the Orchestra. Just make sure that each patch has its own MIDI channel assigned (you can set up PLAY to automatically assign MIDI channels in ascending order as you load patches, in the settings menu).

Hollywood Percussion is the exception where I load up only one patch per instrument in a single instance of PLAY. There are instruments, like the Timpani, where I load up the key switch patch, instead of loading individual patches, since it has all of the articulations I need in that single patch. It all depends on what I need from each instrument (most times it’s only one patch per instrument for the percussion section).

Once you have completed your template, then it’s time to create Expression Maps for each instrument. I’ll refer you to this video since it will take more time to explain in text:



Skip to around the 3:27 min time. This is where he starts explaining what Expression Maps are and how to use them. Follow his instructions on how to create them for a Kontakt library, EXCEPT you will also assign MIDI Channel numbers that correspond to the ones assigned in PLAY for each patch loaded. You do this on the top right panel of the Expression Map window, where it says “Channel”. If you don’t assign MIDI channel numbers your articulations won’t switch, so this is a VERY important step!!

Anyway, this is the way I would work if I was using Cubase (currently I prefer using Studio One, but I do miss the Expression Maps from Cubase. They are amazing for orchestral work). Not only do you end up with a MUCH smaller track count on your template (compared to not using Expression Maps), but you can also print music without having key switch notes messing it up. You are essentially making HO work like modern libraries this way, if not better (since you don’t have key switch notes in your piano roll, as mentioned before).

HTH!


----------



## Michael Antrum

Zamenhof said:


> Do you have a tip on how to get started with EWHO, Cubase and Expression Maps? I find it hard to find a decent guide. I have Babylonwaves which should save me some work, right? I love the sound of HO, but also find BBCSO so much easier to work with.



There is a free course at thinkspace on the East West cloud, though I haven’t looked at it myself....

I personally find that I have to use Hollywood Orchestra within the structure of a template otherwise I get lost. Other libraries I can/ build the tracks as I am composing, but there is too much choice in HWO Diamond for me to do that effectively.

I absolutely loathe the front end of Play style wise. It’s like going back to a 90’s website. I do hope they refresh it.


----------



## Chungus

Whelp, looks like my theory was wrong. Damn.


----------



## MRmusic

still not out yet?! ughh


----------



## koolkeys

I'm guessing they will be using OPUS to promote their black Friday sale. And they usually run that sale all month long. So maybe tomorrow?

Brent


----------



## AB3

Yes, November 1 sounds great. It is possible. People need to make sales asap!


----------



## muziksculp

I predicted Hoopus will be released in November, but which day in Nov. is still not showing up clearly in my Crystal Ball.


----------



## John R Wilson

Still no news on OPUS. Only two months to go now.


----------



## borisb2

Zamenhof said:


> Do you have a tip on how to get started with EWHO, Cubase and Expression Maps? I find it hard to find a decent guide. I have Babylonwaves which should save me some work, right? I love the sound of HO, but also find BBCSO so much easier to work with.



When it comes to Expression Maps in Cubase I think everybody should set it up based on personal needs/taste. But to give you an idea, this is how I set it up: I set up custom Multis individually in Play (splitted in legato. longs and shorts) and gave them unique Midi channels for each articulation. The expression Maps then change the MIDI channels accordingly.














This way I create my own keyswitches exactly the way I need them - if needed with additional blending of 2 patches (for additional attack on sustains for example)

The only downside is when using Expression Maps in Cubase that control the MIDI channel it always reverts back to the first expression when hitting Stop, which can be annoying (unless you set it in a part)


----------



## FrogZone

Is having a dedicated SSD to run diamond still recommended? I was planning to update to diamond and get a new 1tb ssd, but now I'm wondering if I'l be able to fit everything on 1tb with HOOPUS included...


----------



## Ashermusic

FrogZone said:


> Is having a dedicated SSD to run diamond still recommended? I was planning to update to diamond and get a new 1tb ssd, but now I'm wondering if I'l be able to fit everything on 1tb with HOOPUS included...



Absolutely recommended for at least your go to mic positions. As of last week for the first time though I have the entire HO Diamond on an SSD, all mic positions, as prices have come down on 1TB SSDs.


----------



## FrogZone

Ashermusic said:


> Absolutely recommended for at least your go to mic positions. As of last week for the first time though I have the entire HO Diamond on an SSD, all mic positions, as prices have come down on 1TB SSDs.



Thank you for your answer. To be more precise, would there be any disadvantages if, for example, I had diamond on a 2tb ssd with other unrelated library on the same ssd?


----------



## Ashermusic

FrogZone said:


> Thank you for your answer. To be more precise, would there be any disadvantages if, for example, I had diamond on a 2tb ssd with other unrelated library on the same ssd?



None whatsoever.


----------



## Markus Kohlprath

borisb2 said:


> The only downside is when using Expression Maps in Cubase that control the MIDI channel it always reverts back to the first expression when hitting Stop, which can be annoying (unless you set it in a part)


To change this behavior you have to check or uncheck the little latch button at the bottom of the left side.


----------



## borisb2

Markus Kohlprath said:


> To change this behavior you have to check or uncheck the little latch button at the bottom of the left side.


oh it does keep the articulation after letting go the keyswitch/controller .. but as soon as I hit stop in Cubase or move the playhead to a different position the expression map resets itself .. it doesnt do that with expression maps that dont use MIDI channels


----------



## Markus Kohlprath

borisb2 said:


> oh it does keep the articulation after letting go the keyswitch/controller .. but as soon as I hit stop in Cubase or move the playhead to a different position the expression map resets itself .. it doesnt do that with expression maps that dont use MIDI channels


Yes seems that you are right. I didn't notice that since I apply the expression map data usually after playing with one articulation. Strange that there is a difference between keyswitches and midi channel mappings.


----------



## dcoscina

I'm curious if EW is still on track with a Fall release of this library....


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

If they're smart, they post some audio examples real soon.


----------



## EgM

I'd just be glad with a screenshot of the UI that shows assignable keyswitches, and maybe a functional purge


----------



## lettucehat

EgM said:


> I'd just be glad with a screenshot of the UI that shows assignable keyswitches, and maybe a functional purge



Seconded. At this rate I don't care if it comes out in 2020 as long as I know what it's basically going to look and function like. What will the new content be? Will it be something we can buy into per section (Strings, Brass) or one big thing, take it or leave it?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

I would like to know if the new "orchestra"-UI for Play is restricted to the upcoming Opus expansion for HO Diamond, or if it will be a (free) upgrade to all users of HO.

So that only the new samples are restricted to the Opus expansion, not the new GUI, I mean.


----------



## dcoscina

Oh well, I guess we will see when we see.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Given a lot of developers are already announcing Black Friday sales, I hope EW releases this soon, or they risk missing out on customer budgets.


----------



## Caleb Joshua

Bump. Wheres the update? anyone? :(


----------



## Geomir

Every day I reload EW / SoundsOnline homepage, waiting for a new colorful HOOPUS banner (all their banners are very inspiring and beautiful!), but still nothing.

I think we need to wait "just a little more"!


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Piotrek K. said:


> Fall? This hype train better have a lot of cars ;D
> 
> I'm interested nonetheless.


Only at 32 pages?
I guess people have grown used to EW Marketing


----------



## Beans

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Given a lot of developers are already announcing Black Friday sales, I hope EW releases this soon, or they risk missing out on customer budgets.



I'm pretty sure EW/SoundsOnline will be fine in the long run. But I, as an individual, am certainly already over-spending.


----------



## MauroPantin

I don't think they launch products just for a single Black Friday with another five products in the pipeline. As I understand from the announcement HOOPUS is kind of a whole update and relaunch of what is (probably) their flagship product. So in that sense, if they miss this BF there's always a next one. 

I will say it is not good for business to miss deadlines or have constant delays, though. Under-promise and over-accomplish and all that.


----------



## Mystic

I'm missing out on a lot of sales right now myself because I'm waiting to see how much my update for Diamond is going to cost.


----------



## lettucehat

Mystic said:


> I'm missing out on a lot of sales right now myself because I'm waiting to see how much my update for Diamond is going to cost.



Similar boat, except EW is missing out on my BF budget because they can't even give a verbal description of what's on the way. If they don't have any news in the next week or so, I imagine it's because they aren't coming out with this during the holiday season so there's no rush. In which case, I will happy replenish my back account and see them on Valentine's (usually the other big sale)


----------



## dzilizzi

Mystic said:


> I'm missing out on a lot of sales right now myself because I'm waiting to see how much my update for Diamond is going to cost.


With EW is is usually cheaper to get the 60% off sale at someplace like JRRShop (use the "Group" discount code for extra) than it is to buy the upgrade. Then you have the Gold version for your laptop and the Diamond version for your studio.


----------



## EgM

They don't really need to hit black friday since this will be included in Composer Cloud, doesn't change much for them.


----------



## Dave Connor

MauroPantin said:


> As I understand from the announcement HOOPUS is kind of a whole update and relaunch of what is (probably) their flagship product.


Are there any specifics at all about the update?


----------



## Ashermusic

Dave Connor said:


> Are there any specifics at all about the update?



Not yet, and I am told it isn’t imminent.


----------



## Dave Connor

Thanks Jay. (And I owe you another thanks.)


----------



## Ashermusic

Dave Connor said:


> Thanks Jay. (And I owe you another thanks.)




Also, they are interested in knowing everyone's wish list for it,


----------



## muziksculp

Ashermusic said:


> Also, they are interested in knowing everyone's wish list for it,



Hmmm.. They should have been interested in knowing that a year ago, or even more.


----------



## Dave Connor

Ashermusic said:


> Also, they are interested in knowing everyone's wish list for it,


It seems to me there was a patch in Diamond Strings with sampled rebowed eighths as you would find in Mozart etc., but I haven’t been able to find it. Anyway, it would be great to have a patch like that which syncs to the sequencer.


----------



## gsilbers

I would like a ho version with the basic articulations (instead of a sea of random ones like powerful system legato 20 rr maybe it’s a cool
but there are 20 more similar to it.nki). Lol.

and have multiple mic positions.

basically Hollywood orchestra gold or silver with the other mic positions and try to get at least than 40-60gb for everything so it’s laptop friendly.

On top of whatever they where going to add like sequencer or arranger? And easy GUI to setup stuff. Play is still unconfortable for me.

But thats just me if anyone is asking for feeedback.

And if anyone is asking... spitfire released like 3 different string libraries while this thread/announcement was going.
So maybe not wait so long between annoucing and release? But now I’m just trolling.
but close mics on Hollywood orchestra gold would be nice.


----------



## Piano Pete

Ashermusic said:


> Also, they are interested in knowing everyone's wish list for it,



It would be fantastic if they could enable midi learning and mapping of mic position faders! I remember it worked at some point, but broke around 4-5ish? Honestly, I have asked about this before, but I cannot even recall if it was ever a thing or not.

The ability to do this would definitely help streamline my routing.

It isnt exactly an Opus request, but if they are taking requests! :D


----------



## Ashermusic

muziksculp said:


> Hmmm.. They should have been interested in knowing that a year ago, or even more.



i don’t know that this was even in the planning stage then.


----------



## muziksculp

Ashermusic said:


> i don’t know that this was even in the planning stage then.



So what year do you expect them to release Hoopus ?


----------



## Ashermusic

Piano Pete said:


> It would be fantastic if they could enable midi learning and mapping of mic position faders! I remember it worked at some point, but broke around 4-5ish? Honestly, I have asked about this before, but I cannot even recall if it was ever a thing or not.
> 
> The ability to do this would definitely help streamline my routing.
> 
> It isnt exactly an Opus request, but if they are taking requests! :D



I think It’s is Opus things they are looking for, not an HO grievance list.


----------



## AllanH

Ashermusic said:


> Also, they are interested in knowing everyone's wish list for it,



I primarily use the "Leg Marc Slur" patches, sometimes called "Leg Slur Accent". These "super legato" patches are fantastic and very easy to use. I would make those my primary patches and any improvement and increased flexibility would be much appreciated.

For shorts, I like the combination MOD patches, as they provide much flexibility at little expense. Maybe include pizz.

I would get rid of all the unnecessary LT and 6RR, 9RR etc. patches as a modern computer easily handle the best of the patches. I have Diamond and can refer back to any of those, should I ever need them.

Consistency: 
* Always have CC1 be dynamics, CC11 expression, and (maybe) CC2 be vibrato.
* Allow automation for all UI elements.

For me, part of the initial steep learning curve was that EWQL had gone to great lengths making the instruments playable on lower-end systems. I don't think this is necessary anymore.

I would find a way to preserve the detail in the product. It's only instrument I have with dedicated UP and DN bow, for instance. 

I read somewhere that everything is recorded in 48k. Please - 48k in 24 or 32 bits if you have the source recordings.


----------



## Ashermusic

muziksculp said:


> So what year do you expect them to release Hoopus ?


 
If you want to be snarky don’t expect me to do that with you. I don’t work for them so I am not paid to put up with it.


----------



## muziksculp

Ashermusic said:


> If you want to be snarky don’t expect me to do that with you. I don’t work for them so I am not paid to put up with it.



I'm just being logical, if that's a problem, let me know. 

I just asked based on your post that they are asking what users want to see at this late point of their development, since they announced that it will be released this Fall.


----------



## szczaw

Dave Connor said:


> Are there any specifics at all about the update?



All new 18 violins 1st section, new 2 trombones and all new 2 trumpets, re-worked old woodwinds, new 3 small woodwind sections.

https://vi-control.net/community/th...and-hollywood-orchestrator.92930/post-4552665


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Ashermusic said:


> Not yet, and I am told it isn’t imminent.



I thought they had announced it would release this Fall?


----------



## Ashermusic

muziksculp said:


> I'm just being logical, if that's a problem, let me know.
> 
> I just asked based on your post that they are asking what users want to see at this late point of their development, since they announced that it will be released this Fall.



No idea.


----------



## muziksculp

Ashermusic said:


> No idea.



Ok. Thanks.


----------



## Ashermusic

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I thought they had announced it would release this Fall?



it’s possible the pandemic has interfered with that. Again, I don’t know.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Ashermusic said:


> Also, they are interested in knowing everyone's wish list for it,


It's awesome that you're doing this, Jay.

I only have Hollywood Strings and...strangely I don't have many feature requests off the top of my head. It's so feature-rich already. Mainly, if the levels could be balanced across the board, and if the handling of the legato could be a little smoother. I think marcato layered with spicc, for fine-tuning attacks would be cool. Even just taking the current recordings and balancing the levels alone would be a huge boost in usability.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Ashermusic said:


> it’s possible the pandemic has interfered with that. Again, I don’t know.



I thought you said you have been told it isn’t imminent? You know more than the rest of us if that’s the case 

Bad form of them to keep advertising it in their CC ads if it isn’t going to be released anytime soon.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

szczaw said:


> All new 18 violins 1st section, new 2 trombones and all new 2 trumpets, re-worked old woodwinds, new 3 small woodwind sections.
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/th...and-hollywood-orchestrator.92930/post-4552665



That post by EW is so tantalizing!


----------



## lettucehat

Well that's good to know... makes BF purchasing a little simpler.

My wish list for HS/HB is pretty simple, since the announced details are already reassuring. My main wish would be that they make performance patches and/or thoughtfully arranged keyswitch patches containing several intuitively playable patches. I'm thinking primarily of Performance Samples', Musical Samplings', and Spitfires' successes in this area - fanfare brass, Adventure Strings-type patches, or stuff like the SCS ones. I only have PS' libraries but it's such a fantastic way to sketch or even lay down near-final parts live.

The other, and this is esoteric stuff I don't know much about, would be re-editing samples to include more natural attack if and when they were deliberately chopped for responsiveness. For example, HS' loose short articulations are pretty great, but sometimes I get the sense that more recent libraries really capture some extra bite, at the cost of needing some delay compensation. I'm just speculating but I wonder if HS could see improved realism by re-editing samples, even legatos, so that you could possibly choose your level of responsiveness a la CSS. Just a thought.


----------



## Piano Pete

Ashermusic said:


> I think It’s is Opus things they are looking for, not an HO grievance list.


Fair enough, I wasnt trying to make a grievance. 

Honestly, I still use Diamond as my main library. Although I do not really use their brass and ww's anymore, they still have their place. I still use a lot of their other libraries as well. 

In all, I cannot understand where a lot of the animosity towards them comes from, but to each their own.

For their next library, I'm pretty much just waiting to see what they are going to do.

It's kind of already outlined in their game plan, but I believe a consolidation and streamlining of their more complex patches, or substitution patches, would be ideal. At this point, some of the bow change and other "fancy" patches could probably be combined into other articulations to be manipulated by KS or CC. I'd love to see those features incorporated into some of their other patches. It would just make it a little easier to manage when working under a tight deadline.

AllanH kind of hit on it in his post: after having gone through their patches earlier this week, I noticed some just didnt have enough of a difference to warrant their cost in ram. I utilize a lot of mic positions, so that is something that weighs a lot in my decision whether an articulation stays in my default template. I can see why some exist, especially to cover the gambit of computers out there, but sonically--some of them dont have enough going for them that I cannot already achieve with some combination of their more flexible Legato, Short MOD, or Powerful Sus patches. Maybe the new renditions of these patches will have more contrast between them, each having their use case, but I'll just have to wait and see. I also understand what I may like or find useful may be contrary for someone else.

If there is one thing I would love to see them tackle is some form "agile/nimble" patches. Their Marc Leg is pretty good for these types of things, and I usually have to layer it a few others to achieve something desirable. For me, this is the holy grail for a string library. If they--or anyone else--can achieve this, I'd be set.


----------



## dzilizzi

Ashermusic said:


> Also, they are interested in knowing everyone's wish list for it,


I need it to write beautiful music for me. Throw in some chords and it's orchestrated perfectly with ostinatos and big brass parts. I can usually do the melody. I just need help with all the keyswitching. If it can suggest articulations based on notes, that would be great. 

Hey, you asked!  

Now I need to go watch some more YouTube how to videos.


----------



## JTB

Assemble custom key switch patches
Control dynamics via velocity
Mod and expression slider/knob in the UI
Fix legatos i.e. less bumps

Then HO would be straight back into my template faster than you can hit the checkout button.


----------



## Dex

Performance patches. Keyswitching and channel switching to pick articulations just sucks.

Consistency in cc assignment. Or better yet, midi learnable ccs.

Legato patches that have a consistent note delay (yes, even for the first note of each phrase) so I can just draw a part in on-grid in my DAW, set the track delay to whatever the patch delay is, and have it play back on-grid.

Short patches that choose the short artic (stac, spice, etc) based on the length of the midi note. I realise this would require a small playback delay. Make it a consistent one.


----------



## Petrucci

It would be cool if they could reprogram the old woodwinds since they are the weakest part but I use em anyway, just takes a lot of time to play those leg patches well. Also yeah, strings are awesome, but sometimes takes time to adjust CCs to avoid bumps. I would love more suspended cymbals with Longer rolls like in EWQLSO.


----------



## Geomir

Petrucci said:


> I would love more suspended cymbals with Longer rolls like in EWQLSO.



A huge RESPECT here for the wonderful EWQLSO Percussion (including the numerous cymbals and gong patches, from smaller cymbals up to 60" earth-shattering gongs)!


----------



## sIR dORT

Base bone ensemble would be awesome. Full sustain gong patches (like in the beginning of Mars in The Planets - it plays a quite roll for a long time) would be great as well.


----------



## MauroPantin

I just want playable patches and a purge function as we have in Kontakt for DFD streaming. I love that they re-recorded stuff. I mean, more options? Awesome. But it already sounds great to me. It's scripted functionality what I want.

Also, it would be absolutely killer (for me) to be able to batch assign certain controls to CC without having to do it on a patch by patch basis. I play a lot with the attack and release of samples, and would really appreciate the option to ALWAYS assign those to a specific CC regardless of the loaded patch, rather than have to manually do it for each instrument articulation I load


----------



## Page Lyn Turner

As someone mentioned already, CC consistency for patches and also keyswitches. Also, an update path for those who have a section of the orchestra. I’m waiting for this Opus, I like to buy local!


----------



## Ashermusic

Can I please request that you not include changes to Play, just things you would like to see included in Opus, because I think that’s what they wanted me to ask. Changes to Play you would like is a different discussion.


----------



## MauroPantin

Sorry Jay. Then playable patches and consistent CC assignments across the entire library would be it for me.


----------



## Mikro93

I'm wondering whether it would be a good investment as of now to get HO Diamond, given that Opus will be released at some point soon-ish. Any opinion? Apologies if it has been asked and answered before, there are so many pages on the subject that I could not read them all


----------



## Beans

Mikro93 said:


> I'm wondering whether it would be a good investment as of now to get HO Diamond, given that Opus will be released at some point soon-ish. Any opinion? Apologies if it has been asked and answered before, there are so many pages on the subject that I could not read them all



I don't think anyone here knows what the upgrade price will be, nor do we know precisely what will be in Opus (or the quality of it).

So, we can only judge on what exists today. With that said, EWHO Diamond at its sale price is a ridiculously good value. The strings and brass are *superb*. The percussion is good, in my opinion, but I don't blame anyone for favoring VSL's Synchron Percussion or CinePerc by Cinesamples. The woodwinds are the weakest of the set, but mostly fall flat when super exposed in a melodic line (prior posts by EW indicate that woodwinds and first violins will be focus points for Opus, but we don't know much else).

There's a bit of a learning curve regarding which patches to use for which use cases, but there are plenty of posts at VI-C with people going over their favorite patches. The documentation from EastWest is helpful for that as well, and the EWHO-specific project file available for purchase from https://synthestration.com is another great way to get a grasp on which patches to use for certain passages.


----------



## HardyP

With all due respect, but making anouncements "out this fall", and then instead of releasing it, using poor ol`Jay again for dropping some 'not imminent' and ask for features... THAT is EW communication excellence in all its glory...
Maybe Play Pro wants to go "Back to the Future" ...?!?


----------



## Mike Fox

HardyP said:


> With all due respect, but making anouncements "out this fall", and then instead of releasing it, using poor ol`Jay again for dropping some 'not imminent' and ask for features... THAT is EW communication excellence in all its glory...
> Maybe Play Pro wants to go "Back to the Future" ...?!?


Yeah, that's REALLY tacky on their end.

@Ashermusic It's nice of you to be the middle man, but i sincerely hope EW is compensating you for your time.


----------



## Batrawi

Mikro93 said:


> I'm wondering whether it would be a good investment as of now to get HO Diamond, given that Opus will be released at some point soon-ish. Any opinion? Apologies if it has been asked and answered before, there are so many pages on the subject that I could not read them all


I got it recently. Was only able to play with the strings but man.... these alone are worth the $373 price of the full orchestra which is already cheaper than most string libraries in the market!!! I would say definitely get it. No regrets for me, but only happily replacing newer libraries that are re-inventing the wheel while HWS already nailed years before!


----------



## HardyP

Mike Fox said:


> @Ashermusic It's nice of you to be the middle man, but i sincerely hope EW is compensating you for your time.


...exactly what I also wanted to add, but forgot somehow


----------



## SupremeFist

Can they replace the current GUI with a giant knob next to some inscrutable symbols so that one never knows what it is supposed to do?


----------



## Jose7822

If EW is asking for features at this point, then we’re looking at a 2021 release. That’s a shame since I was really looking forward using it this year.


----------



## muziksculp

Jose7822 said:


> If EW is asking for features at this point, then we’re looking at a 2021 release. That’s a shame since I was really looking forward using it this year.




That's exactly what I think as well. I doubt it will be released this year.


----------



## Beans

Yay! I get to A) use my budget on other things or B) save money! Woo hoo!


----------



## José Herring

Jose7822 said:


> If EW is asking for features at this point, then we’re looking at a 2021 release. That’s a shame since I was really looking forward using it this year.


Where do you see that they are asking for features?


----------



## bill45

Remember play pro? Nick's synth library?


----------



## muziksculp

José Herring said:


> Where do you see that they are asking for features?



https://vi-control.net/community/th...and-hollywood-orchestrator.92930/post-4679187


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

It'd be nice if @Quantum Leap could confirm if they are no longer going to hit their original Fall timeframe.


----------



## Ashermusic

Mike Fox said:


> Y
> 
> @Ashermusic It's nice of you to be the middle man, but i sincerely hope EW is compensating you for your time.



They aren't and I am not spending much time on it. But even though I don't work for them anymore, they continue to give me NFRs and I genuinely love H.O. so I am excited about Opus and will be a beta tester.

I will pass on what has been mentioned and unless something more comes in where I think, "ooh, good one" I am done.


----------



## lettucehat

Thanks for everything you’re doing. I’m just curious if you have any idea whether Opus will exist in separately buyable orchestra sections or just be one monolithic thing people either buy into or not? The deeply discounted HO gives me that impression. I just have strings and brass though.


----------



## Ashermusic

lettucehat said:


> Thanks for everything you’re doing. I’m just curious if you have any idea whether Opus will exist in separately buyable orchestra sections or just be one monolithic thing people either buy into or not? The deeply discounted HO gives me that impression. I just have strings and brass though.



I am reasonably confident in predicting that it will be a monolithic package, although no one at EW has specifically told me that.


----------



## Batrawi

lettucehat said:


> Thanks for everything you’re doing. I’m just curious if you have any idea whether Opus will exist in separately buyable orchestra sections or just be one monolithic thing people either buy into or not? The deeply discounted HO gives me that impression. I just have strings and brass though.


To my understanding they will provide upgrade paths from individual sections based on their below reply in their Opus announcement on FB. wouln't harm if you ask them again though.


----------



## lettucehat

Excellent, thanks for finding that hidden gem! Similar to my situation. I guess it does suggest it's one big thing.


----------



## Petrucci

I would also love the ability to have pre-done mixes of the Orchestra with all the mics levels set as needed (and Spaces 2 somehow connected with it - would be cool), maybe several variants of that, like Spitfire did with their BBC Orchestra.


----------



## Drundfunk

Ashermusic said:


> Can I please request that you not include changes to Play, just things you would like to see included in Opus, because I think that’s what they wanted me to ask. Changes to Play you would like is a different discussion.


I honestly thought you were joking. Boy was I wrong.


----------



## leonardo

Regarding Hollywood Strings: as already has been mentioned it would be beautiful to have more flexibility in the note attacks and transitions, that is marcato accents of controllable intensity also in the middle of a legato phrase, generally more choice between shorter, longer, smoother and more pronounced note transitions (if I remember correctly the transitions were originally longer but were cut in order to improve responsiveness) and most importantly the possibility to rebow the same note within a legato phrase. I don't know if the latter is really possible because probably rebows haven't been recorded but with some trickery there may be a satisfying solution. The way it is now rebows are very cumbersome to simulate.
Thank you very much for your effort!!


----------



## Batrawi

leonardo said:


> more choice between shorter, longer, smoother and more pronounced note transitions (if I remember correctly the transitions were originally longer but were cut in order to improve responsiveness) and most importantly the possibility to rebow the same note within a legato phrase.


+1 on this. more options for note attack type, control over the full legato transition and same note rebow. This would be just excellent!

On another note, I would generally suggest that they check & borrow some ideas from OT' CAPSULE engine. One of the most innovative engines I've seen which unlock a lot of possibilities even with the basic recorded samples.


----------



## JGRaynaud

To me I guess the more useful feature would be to have a choice between samples with and without noise reduction. The less the samples are processed the more the sound is realistic in a final mix.


----------



## MRmusic

I would like to see improved woodwinds and play engine is fine the way it is. Play pro is exciting too!

Updating woodwinds would be wonderful where the soloist stands with a pleasant sound if I had to request anything.

I would rather have them release a quality product that is fully tested and polished then have them rush out a product to make a few people happy.


This is very exciting times knowing they have an extensive update in the future.


----------



## Jay Panikkar

I'm more about patching up the timeless collection of HO rather than adding more bloat and unnecessary features.

*1) Consistency across articulations and sections.* Consistent tuning, levels, dynamics and delays across articulations and sections.

*2) Match the quality of woodwinds to the series.* In addition to consistency, I'm hoping for proper fixes at the sample level for the wonky legatos and tuning. Some of the short articulations have a few wonky samples here and there, iirc.

*3) New articulations to "complete" existing instruments.* Staccatissimi for brass and winds that don't have it and detache for winds and brass. These don't necessarily have to be new recordings, they can be created from existing samples.

Realistically, I think #2 is the only thing that's gonna happen, especially this close to release.


----------



## ChristianM

a contrabass clarinet with all articulations


----------



## Jose7822

modiel said:


> To me I guess the more useful feature would be to have a choice between samples with and without noise reduction. The less the samples are processed the more the sound is realistic in a final mix.



That’s an unrealistic request given how large this library already is (especially when you add OPUS to it). That would make it close to 2TB in size! Not only is that a hassle to store in a system, but also to download. Honestly, I haven’t found HO samples to sound unnatural. To me they sound more natural than some current libraries. The demos speak for themselves.


----------



## Jay Panikkar

modiel said:


> To me I guess the more useful feature would be to have a choice between samples with and without noise reduction. The less the samples are processed the more the sound is realistic in a final mix.



Afaik, the noise reduction in HO is minimal. EW has buried the noise under the ADSR envelopes.


----------



## dcoscina

On one hand, this is disappointing news, but on the other, it's great they are asking for suggestions. When it comes out, it's sure to be a formidable contender in the orchestral library market.


----------



## Casiquire

I'm really hoping for improvements in the legatos. That's really been my only gripe with the otherwise great library. The legato delays seem to be inconsistent between notes and intervals so timing is very difficult. The rest of my requests, like a master microphone control etc, are Play requests


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

This is what EW posted recently (few days ago):
_"More information concerning Hollywood OPUS Edition (i.e. pricing, upgrade paths, content & features available, etc.), will be made available the closer we are to release. You can stay up-do-date via our newsletter - http://www.soundsonline.com/Subscriptions- or our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/eastwestsound/ At the moment we aren't at liberty to share any further information than what we've released publicly on either of the above platforms. Stay tuned however and we should have more information soon, when it is made available"_

Quite disappointing by EW to announce it 8 months in advance and continue to market it only to not hit the date or provide any more information. Customers have been waiting (and saving) most of the year for it. I even purchased HO Diamond in August in anticipation.


----------



## szczaw

> Quite disappointing by EW to announce it 8 months in advance and continue to market it only to not hit the date or provide any more information. Customers have been waiting (and saving) most of the year for it. I even purchased HO Diamond in August in anticipation.



Did EW give a firm release date ? As far as I know, they only mentioned fall and fall ends on December 22.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

szczaw said:


> Fall isn't over yet.
> 
> 
> Did EW give a firm release date ? As far as I know, they only mentioned fall and fall ends on December 22.



Well, Jay earlier implied they are not close to release (and of anybody here, he would know).


----------



## Saxer

As HS is the only library I know that has separate recorded up- and down bows I'd like to have patches with automatic up/down round robins and two key switches to reset to either of two.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

at least it means that they have integrity and don't rush things just to get it out on time and make bucks. Actually a good thing. In the end it's always hard to predict when such massive creative + technical work is done.
I guess they just were too excited and set a daring due date for themselves


----------



## dzilizzi

I wonder how much COVID restrictions have effected the planned finish date. I'm guessing it will affect a number of libraries that aren't finished recording or need to go back and rerecord something. Also, sitting around a table discussing/working on issues is much easier than doing it remotely. I know from my work every thing has slowed down and is taking a lot longer to do than if it was done in person.


----------



## JGRaynaud

Jose7822 said:


> That’s an unrealistic request given how large this library already is (especially when you add OPUS to it). That would make it close to 2TB in size! Not only is that a hassle to store in a system, but also to download. Honestly, I haven’t found HO samples to sound unnatural. To me they sound more natural than some current libraries. The demos speak for themselves.



I agree it would be too big. I'd just say less processing overall and no choice of samples. It doesn't sound unnatural, it sounds less natural than it could. That's a big nuance. About the demos, being a demo writer for 90% of the sampling companies doing orchestral out there, I'm usually able to spot every details that would make the library sound more realistic. Tha'ts why I'm doing so much beta testing for the different sampling companies, and that's why I'm sure it would improve the librar.

However I know it's a bit of an utopia. Reworking every sample would be an insane work to do.


----------



## Jose7822

modiel said:


> I agree it would be too big. I'd just say less processing overall and no choice of samples. It doesn't sound unnatural, it sounds less natural than it could. That's a big nuance. About the demos, being a demo writer for 90% of the sampling companies doing orchestral out there, I'm usually able to spot every details that would make the library sound more realistic. Tha'ts why I'm doing so much beta testing for the different sampling companies, and that's why I'm sure it would improve the librar.
> 
> However I know it's a bit of an utopia. Reworking every sample would be an insane work to do.



I used to beta test for EW during the Hollywood Strings and Brass period, which is how I got most of the EW libraries I own. I stopped when they were about to release Hollywood Woodwinds, which was the original name of that library back then (as opposed to Hollywood ORCHESTRAL Woodwinds, as it is known today). There were many sample noises (clicks, random chair or stand, page turns, out of tune notes, etc) that I reported, which took many months to fix. At this point, it’s super unrealistic to ask them to rework ALL of the samples any different than they have already. That takes an incredible amount of work. I say this from experience .

That said, from what Nick mentioned earlier in his post, it sounded like they did reworked all of the samples in order to make them blend well with the new recordings. What exactly that means? I don’t know. Hopefully they can answer questions like this before release.


----------



## JGRaynaud

Jose7822 said:


> I used to beta test for EW during the Hollywood Strings and Brass period, which is how I got most of the EW libraries I own. I stopped when they were about to release Hollywood Woodwinds, which was the original name of that library back then (as opposed to Hollywood ORCHESTRAL Woodwinds, as it is known today). There were many sample noises (clicks, random chair or stand, page turns, out of tune notes, etc) that I reported, which took many months to fix. At this point, it’s super unrealistic to ask them to rework ALL of the samples any different than they have already. That takes an incredible amount of work. I say this from experience .
> 
> That said, from what Nick mentioned earlier in his post, it sounded like they did reworked all of the samples in order to make them blend well with the new recordings. What exactly that means? I don’t know. Hopefully they can answer questions like this before release.


I agree. I didn't mean I would like them to rework every sample starting from now. I know well how a sample library is made and the amount of work it requires and know it would be a complete utopia at this point

People asked what I'd like to see and I answered this because EW said they reworked their samples (as you mentioned) so I have some hopes they already reworked this even if I'm probably dreaming 🙂


----------



## Ashermusic

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Well, Jay earlier implied they are not close to release (and of anybody here, he would know).



Close is a relative term. All I know is that i asked if I could beta test it and I was told “not ready yet.”

So given the need for a typical beta cycle, I conclude not close.


----------



## nolotrippen

Ashermusic said:


> Close is a relative term. All I know is that i asked if I could beta test it and I was told “not ready yet.”
> 
> So given the need for a typical beta cycle, I conclude not close.


sigh


----------



## RogiervG

Time for East West to communicate the delay, since they haven't communicated a delay yet.
on their website it's still fall 2020. If things have changed, it would be appropriate to communicate that asap.

But.. nobody from eastwest is here as it seems to read the thread


----------



## Ashermusic

Do you folks want it now or do you want it good? Has anybody rushed into your house and ripped the Hollywood Orchestra off your drives?

It's a freaking sample library, it isn't going to change your life.


----------



## dzilizzi

Ashermusic said:


> Do you folks want it now or do you want it good? Has anybody rushed into your house and ripped the Hollywood Orchestra off your drives?
> 
> It's a freaking sample library, it isn't going to change your life.


Are you kidding? It will be EPIC! We need it NOW!!!!!! 

Jay, just because you can make great music without much of anything, doesn't mean the rest of us don't need all the help we can get as soon as we can get it! 

Really, though, I can wait. I have most of my money planned for this holiday period, so having to wait for this is probably good for my budget.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Ashermusic said:


> Do you folks want it now or do you want it good? Has anybody rushed into your house and ripped the Hollywood Orchestra off your drives?
> 
> It's a freaking sample library, it isn't going to change your life.



they want it NOW so that they can bitch and complain about it (and PLAY)


----------



## cqd

Ashermusic said:


> It's a freaking sample library, it isn't going to change your life.



I think like a banner of this should be posted as large as possible across the top of the site..


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Ashermusic said:


> It's a freaking sample library, it isn't going to change your life.


----------



## Casiquire

Jeremy Spencer said:


> they want it NOW so that they can bitch and complain about it (and PLAY)


This was my Thanksgiving plan, to be honest, and I'm very disappointed. This delay has ruined Thanksgiving and possibly even Christmas. Is there a manager?


----------



## Mystic

Casiquire said:


> This was my Thanksgiving plan, to be honest, and I'm very disappointed. This delay has ruined Thanksgiving and possibly even Christmas. Is there a manager?


Damnit, Kareniquire! Had to go and ruin everything again!


----------



## nolotrippen

Casiquire said:


> This was my Thanksgiving plan, to be honest, and I'm very disappointed. This delay has ruined Thanksgiving and possibly even Christmas. Is there a manager?


It's ruined armegedon for me too.


----------



## borisb2

Ashermusic said:


> ... It's a freaking sample library, it isn't going to change your life.


certain game changing people might see that differently



dzilizzi said:


> I have most of my money planned for this holiday period


in what world are you living? thoughtful planning of spending money? .. not possible here. It usually goes more like "need it? don't need it? listened to demo. Bought! ... next .. need it? dont need it? listened to demo ..."


----------



## PerryD

borisb2 said:


> certain game changing people might see that differently


 My wife promises me that if I buy one more library, my life will indeed change...


----------



## borisb2

PerryD said:


> My wife promises me that if I buy one more library, my life will indeed change...


do our partners reeeally know all our purchases? promised?


----------



## dzilizzi

borisb2 said:


> in what world are you living? thoughtful planning of spending money? .. not possible here. It usually goes more like "need it? don't need it? listened to demo. Bought! ... next .. need it? dont need it? listened to demo ..."


It looks something like this:
BBCSO if on sale
Any Toontrack midis that I don't have and are cheap
Probably something from Sonokinetic, though I have pretty much all the phrase libraries and a whole lot of everything else
Spitfire Ton, if I don't have whatever is in it. 

Its gotten to the point there are sales all the time. BF and Xmas aren't that big of a deal anymore. 

And? I do know something will pop up that is "amazing/new/never-before-seen-at-this-price/etc... and my plan of being good will go out the window. Oh, wait...it already did...stupid NI sale...


----------



## Batrawi

I think we now need to change the thread title to Hollywood orchestra Oops..


----------



## RogiervG

Ashermusic said:


> Do you folks want it now or do you want it good? Has anybody rushed into your house and ripped the Hollywood Orchestra off your drives?
> 
> It's a freaking sample library, it isn't going to change your life.



all jokes aside..

but...

Who says it's not good now? who says it won't be mid december? you don't have all details as you said yourself. (since you don't work for them anymore)

anyway.. besides that.. my point is not about quality, it's about communication.
They introduced the whole OPUS thing with big fanfare. Then it became silent.. months passed.
Now through some information here (via .e.g yourself) and logical reasoning it looks like the release is not going to be in fall 2020. But later. Covid might be a thing, but remember they could have known this, since the OPUS thing was announced in early MAY, 1,5 months into the covid situation already.

Eastwest knows the state, the expected (new) release date etc...
if a company introduces things with big fanfare and a release date/period. I think it's their obligation to inform people that there is delay, and how big of a delay.

It's not lifechanging, or anything.. but it's courtesy to inform customers (potential or real) if a release period is not going to be met. Especially in the BF en holiday sales period. People are stategically planing things ahead financially you kow? If this release aint on time, but months away.. they can then spend money on other stuff they also want instead with big discounts. (and restart saving for opus)


----------



## Simon Ravn

Really looking forward to what they have come up with here! Still using a lot of Hollywood Brass + Strings on projects. A pity it won't come sooner rather than later...


----------



## ShidoStrife

RogiervG said:


> People are stategically planing things ahead financially you kow? If this release aint on time, but months away.. they can then spend money on other stuff they also want instead with big discounts. (and restart saving for opus)



this is exactly my situation right now. Lotsa stuffs on my wishlist. OPUS is currently on top, but if it's still months away, I'm moving it down. Really need some updates...


----------



## Zero&One

Batrawi said:


> I think we now need to change the thread title to Hollywood orchestra Oops..



Or Hollywood Orchestra Opus Hopus 2021 edition.

Seriously though, I'm not too bothered as I have enough until this drops. Hopefully the intro period will be long enough to check the walkthroughs/reviews out.


----------



## jamwerks

About 4 years ago, and brand new "Play" was announced as being ready in about a year (3 years ago!). Was reportedly being programmed by a dev we all know...

EW isn't the only producer who word as for delays means literally nothing, but they are up there with the best of them.

In this case, could be that the libraries are "ready" but waiting for Play to be finished to be able to handle what the libraries were made to do? We'll one day find out !!


----------



## cqd

Yeah, I must say I don't mind waiting.. These things take time, and a delay is understandable this year especially..This marketing strategy is preferable to hype..


----------



## Johnny

bill45 said:


> Remember play pro? Nick's synth library?


Play Pro was the engine, Forbidden Planet I believe was the library... To come out in Cyberpunk 2077...


----------



## ChristianM

dzilizzi said:


> It looks something like this:
> BBCSO if on sale
> Any Toontrack midis that I don't have and are cheap
> Probably something from Sonokinetic, though I have pretty much all the phrase libraries and a whole lot of everything else
> Spitfire Ton, if I don't have whatever is in it.
> 
> Its gotten to the point there are sales all the time. BF and Xmas aren't that big of a deal anymore.
> 
> And? I do know something will pop up that is "amazing/new/never-before-seen-at-this-price/etc... and my plan of being good will go out the window. Oh, wait...it already did...stupid NI sale...



the cards should not work during these periods


----------



## purple

HOPUS pocus


----------



## Fleer

purple said:


> HOPUS pocus


... gone


----------



## Jose7822

Johnny said:


> To come out in Cyberpunk 2077...



Even that got delayed like 4 times. More like the year 3077, lol.

In all seriousness though, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for an update on the release of OPUS & the Orchestrator given they will probably miss the release window at this point. I dispise when companies announce products too early. I prefer it when the announcement is done once the product is ready, or in the final stages of beta testing. That way it’s more of a pleasant surprise and you get instant gratification. Heavyocity is a GREAT example of this.

I’ll gladly wait until OPUS & and the Orchestrator are ready, but keep your customers updated. It’s not much to ask, IMO.


----------



## doctoremmet

Jose7822 said:


> I’ll gladly wait until OPUS & and the Orchestrator are ready, but keep your customers updated. It’s not much to ask, IMO.


Totally agree


----------



## MOMA

Jdiggity1 said:


> I wonder if it's all about to change



Don´t you hear the rumble beyond the horizon?

*MOMA*
Stockholm, Sweden


----------



## AndyP

If OPUS is delayed for an indefinite period of time, I will now allocate the budget for it elsewhere. Heavyocity Ascend for example.
I don't see a big problem in it now, HO still works without OPUS.


----------



## bill45

Jose7822 said:


> Even that got delayed like 4 times. More like the year 3077, lol.
> 
> In all seriousness though, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for an update on the release of OPUS & the Orchestrator given they will probably miss the release window at this point. I dispise when companies announce products too early. I prefer it when the announcement is done once the product is ready, or in the final stages of beta testing. That way it’s more of a pleasant surprise and you get instant gratification. Heavyocity is a GREAT example of this.
> 
> I’ll gladly wait until OPUS & and the Orchestrator are ready, but keep your customers updated. It’s not much to ask, IMO.


Yeah MOR 2 came out with no hype


----------



## HardyP

It seems quite many of the contributors of this thread are new to the EW world... because the current situation is exactly as we know it since decades!
In short you have that simple formula:

*EastWest = outstanding sound - (mediocre software + shoddy management and communication)*

So it depends - if for your taste sound outweighs the last term, than you are fine, stick with it, life with it. If not......


----------



## szczaw

Presently EW has got be the best bang for the buck. I subbed to the composer cloud some time ago but since the permanent 60% off sale, I've been buying full libraries. I find Play to be absolutely fine but I suppose I'm not too demanding user.


----------



## HardyP

szczaw said:


> I find Play to be absolutely fine but I suppose I'm not too demanding user.


That´s exactly what it is, and why the formular remains true .
And TBH, they made this move a decade earlier than the other "big ones" more recently.

As soon as you want constant bugfixing, more flexibility, steady development, e.g., the outcome may differ.


----------



## nolotrippen

HardyP said:


> That´s exactly what it is, and why the formular remains true .
> And TBH, they made this move a decade earlier than the other "big ones" more recently.
> 
> As soon as you want constant bugfixing, more flexibility, steady development, e.g., the outcome may differ.


unlike Spitfire...just kidding


----------



## DS_Joost

szczaw said:


> Presently EW has got be the best bang for the buck. I subbed to the composer cloud some time ago but since the permanent 60% off sale, I've been buying full libraries. I find Play to be absolutely fine but I suppose I'm not too demanding user.



That's because Play is absolutely fine. It's stable, fast, easy to use. Has been for years already. People are just parroting what they heard others say many many years ago when it was just released. The whining is just sad at this point. It's a great player.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

DS_Joost said:


> That's because Play is absolutely fine. It's stable, fast, easy to use. Has been for years already. People are just parroting what they heard others say many many years ago when it was just released. The whining is just sad at this point. It's a great player.



Actually, I never had a single issue since Play 3.0. And that was what, nine years ago?


----------



## Kent

there are still issues with Play, like the "doesn't like over 64 GB of RAM on some computers" issue that HOOPUS is supposed to fix...


----------



## Rtomproductions

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Actually, I never had a single issue since Play 3.0. And that was what, nine years ago?



Same. I genuinely don't get people's beef with it.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

kmaster said:


> there are still issues with Play, like the "doesn't like over 64 GB of RAM on some computers" issue that HOOPUS is supposed to fix...



Have you actually experienced this?


----------



## Ashermusic

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Have you actually experienced this?




Yes, I can verify this. Once you start to hit over 55 GB you get missing samples messages. EW is aware of it and is working on a fix.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Ashermusic said:


> Yes, I can verify this. Once you start to hit over 55 GB you get missing samples messages. EW is aware of it and is working on a fix.



weird, hope they iron that out!


----------



## Ashermusic

Jeremy Spencer said:


> weird, hope they iron that out!




Me too, I was hoping to load my HO Diamond template with 2 mic positions for every articulation and couldn't do it.


----------



## Kent

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Have you actually experienced this?


Yes

From this very thread:

https://vi-control.net/community/th...and-hollywood-orchestrator.92930/post-4625870

https://vi-control.net/community/th...and-hollywood-orchestrator.92930/post-4625911

https://vi-control.net/community/th...and-hollywood-orchestrator.92930/post-4646432


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

kmaster said:


> Yes
> 
> From this very thread:
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/th...and-hollywood-orchestrator.92930/post-4625870
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/th...and-hollywood-orchestrator.92930/post-4625911
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/th...and-hollywood-orchestrator.92930/post-4646432



Good thing I'm well under 32GB!


----------



## Kent

I miss HS!


----------



## I like music

Genuine question. What do people actually do inside Play? When I was using Hollywood Orchestra, I remember loading my samples up and routing them, and then NEVER EVER opening Play up again.

Unless the argument is around stability (again, totally 100% stable for me) I don't see why people spend so much time inside Play or Kontakt etc. Keep in mind that I'm a rank amateur so I must be missing something here in my workflow. 99% of my time is spent in Cubase.


----------



## MauroPantin

I like music said:


> Genuine question. What do people actually do inside Play? When I was using Hollywood Orchestra, I remember loading my samples up and routing them, and then NEVER EVER opening Play up again.
> 
> Unless the argument is around stability (again, totally 100% stable for me) I don't see why people spend so much time inside Play or Kontakt etc. Keep in mind that I'm a rank amateur so I must be missing something here in my workflow. 99% of my time is spent in Cubase.



Going off topic from HOOPUS for a second:

The only time I spend in it is when I create a new template. For the most part you are right, but there are little details that make the process painful depending on your needs. A lot of time is spent for me assigning control changes to the ADSR envelopes, which I use all the time to tweak the performances of instruments. I have to do that for every articulation of every instrument I load, manually. Then I also have to remember the CC controls for each patch.

The same thing happens for Kontakt libraries, mind you. It's just that Play belongs to a single developer, the same developer that releases all of the sample libraries running on it, so I kinda feel the integration could be much better and it could really give EW a competitive edge. Almost all of the EW libraries have an ADSR envelope, I would love to be able to assign a CC to a control and have that happen on every instance of Play by default as a general setting rather than a patch by patch basis. 

This is just an extension of a common complaint with HO in particular, which is CC inconsistency. The more consistent the CCs and controls across a library or a set of libraries, the more integrated the entire system feels and the easier it is to pick up. This is not just a convenience for the user, it is in EWs best interest to have it streamlined like that, because ease of use is a factor. But maybe the number of people tweaking these types of settings is not considerable, I don't know.

A final word on this is that I am not in any way advocating for laziness or anything of that sort. Libraries as complex and as high quality as Hollywood Orchestra will always take some time to pick up. I don't want a video game type library that is "press this key for instant gratification", and I totally understand that more power means a more complex system. But this does not take away from the fact that some of the HO patches use the Mod wheel for vibrato, others for dynamics, others for switching the type of short, etc, and holding all of that know-how in your head has no upside of any kind.


----------



## Ashermusic

I like music said:


> Genuine question. What do people actually do inside Play? When I was using Hollywood Orchestra, I remember loading my samples up and routing them, and then NEVER EVER opening Play up again.
> 
> Unless the argument is around stability (again, totally 100% stable for me) I don't see why people spend so much time inside Play or Kontakt etc. Keep in mind that I'm a rank amateur so I must be missing something here in my workflow. 99% of my time is spent in Cubase.




I change mic positions and re-adjust levels in the Mixer.


----------



## I like music

Ashermusic said:


> I change mic positions and re-adjust levels in the Mixer.



I keep forgetting people have Diamond. As a Gold user, once I had set my levels I never touched them again, and no additional mic positions. And when I did get EW stuff, by then it seems there were no more stability issues etc that people talk about. So as a consequence I've seen the inside of Play a handful of times over the years, hehe.


----------



## I like music

MauroPantin said:


> Going off topic from HOOPUS for a second:
> 
> The only time I spend in it is when I create a new template. For the most part you are right, but there are little details that make the process painful depending on your needs. A lot of time is spent for me assigning control changes to the ADSR envelopes, which I use all the time to tweak the performances of instruments. I have to do that for every articulation of every instrument I load, manually. Then I also have to remember the CC controls for each patch.
> 
> The same thing happens for Kontakt libraries, mind you. It's just that Play belongs to a single developer, the same developer that releases all of the sample libraries running on it, so I kinda feel the integration could be much better and it could really give EW a competitive edge. Almost all of the EW libraries have an ADSR envelope, I would love to be able to assign a CC to a control and have that happen on every instance of Play by default as a general setting rather than a patch by patch basis.
> 
> This is just an extension of a common complaint with HO in particular, which is CC inconsistency. The more consistent the CCs and controls across a library or a set of libraries, the more integrated the entire system feels and the easier it is to pick up. This is not just a convenience for the user, it is in EWs best interest to have it streamlined like that, because ease of use is a factor. But maybe the number of people tweaking these types of settings is not considerable, I don't know.
> 
> A final word on this is that I am not in any way advocating for laziness or anything of that sort. Libraries as complex and as high quality as Hollywood Orchestra will always take some time to pick up. I don't want a video game type library that is "press this key for instant gratification", and I totally understand that more power means a more complex system. But this does not take away from the fact that some of the HO patches use the Mod wheel for vibrato, others for dynamics, others for switching the type of short, etc, and holding all of that know-how in your head has no upside of any kind.



I see. This makes total sense now, and thanks for the detailed explanation. I've not dug so deep into the libraries that I messed with the envelopes. The CC stuff I'm with you on. Weirdly enough, I only used two patches (Long Power Legato Slurs + MOD shorts). It got me 90% of what I needed! One day, when I have another PC with more RAM, I'll certainly be chucking this orchestra back into the mix.


----------



## Casiquire

DS_Joost said:


> That's because Play is absolutely fine. It's stable, fast, easy to use. Has been for years already. People are just parroting what they heard others say many many years ago when it was just released. The whining is just sad at this point. It's a great player.


My issue with it isn't instability or bugs anymore, my issue with it is it requires loading one patch at a time on separate midi tracks to build a performance which is super tedious and there's no "master control" to make it easier to adjust. Any adjustments need to be made one articulation at a time.


----------



## szczaw

I can't recall Play ever crashing. I have about 150 EW instruments loaded and I use arpeggiator that fills usually four tracks with randomly selected instruments. By now I went thought most if not all possible instrument combinations. It's all exceptionally stable. The 64 gbs limit must be a mac thing.


----------



## bill45

HardyP said:


> It seems quite many of the contributors of this thread are new to the EW world... because the current situation is exactly as we know it since decades!
> In short you have that simple formula:
> 
> *EastWest = outstanding sound - (mediocre software + shoddy management and communication)*
> 
> So it depends - if for your taste sound outweighs the last term, than you are fine, stick with it, life with it. If not......


LMV and Helen are pretty good, on the soundsonline forum


----------



## pmcrockett

Casiquire said:


> My issue with it isn't instability or bugs anymore, my issue with it is it requires loading one patch at a time on separate midi tracks to build a performance which is super tedious and there's no "master control" to make it easier to adjust. Any adjustments need to be made one articulation at a time.


This is my main gripe, too. And you also can't save individual patches as .ewi files -- only the entire player contents. So if you have a complicated player setup like most large templates will, if you want to export each individual patch you have to continually load the whole thing and delete everything except what you want to export. Exporting patches is kind of more trouble than it's worth at that point.


----------



## Breaker

Play has been rock solid for the last 5+ years. 
Now if they could only:
-add customisable keyswitch patches
-add simple purge like in Kontakt
-add MIDI learn (mainly for mic positions)
-re-design some of the older libraries UI’s
-get rid of the memory restriction

None of this should require Play Pro or other nonsense



bill45 said:


> LMV and Helen are pretty good, on the soundsonline forum



I think they pulled the plug on soundsonline forum some months ago without much of a warning and the forum links at soundsonline.com now lead to Facebook. 
So definitely +1 on shoddy communication.


----------



## bill45

Breaker said:


> Play has been rock solid for the last 5+ years.
> Now if they could only:
> -add customisable keyswitch patches
> -add simple purge like in Kontakt
> -add MIDI learn (mainly for mic positions)
> -re-design some of the older libraries UI’s
> -get rid of the memory restriction
> 
> None of this should require Play Pro or other nonsense
> 
> 
> 
> I think they pulled the plug on soundsonline forum some months ago without much of a warning and the forum links at soundsonline.com now lead to Facebook.
> So definitely +1 on shoddy communication.


Woah, I have not been there for a while.It for registered EW users only.


----------



## HardyP

Breaker said:


> Play has been rock solid for the last 5+ years.
> [...]
> I think they pulled the plug on soundsonline forum some months ago without much of a warning and the forum links at soundsonline.com now lead to Facebook.
> So definitely +1 on shoddy communication.



Exactly... "stability" is a MUST, so "Basic" feature these days, but does not count towards "Excitement" (speaking in Kano Map terms) --> mediocre.

BTW, since they placed a warning about macOS Big Sur compatibility, the delay of HOOPUS might be also (at least in parts) related to that. Just guessing, though.


----------



## Jose7822

bill45 said:


> Woah, I have not been there for a while.It for registered EW users only.



Not even for registered users. It’s COMPLETELY gone!!

They don’t have a forum anymore. It’s only Facebook now, which sucks.


----------



## nolotrippen

Jose7822 said:


> Not even for registered users. It’s COMPLETELY gone!!
> 
> They don’t have a forum anymore. It’s only Facebook now, which sucks.


Odd. I know some people leaving Facebook. Seems short sighted.


----------



## MrBuck

pmcrockett said:


> This is my main gripe, too. And you also can't save individual patches as .ewi files -- only the entire player contents. So if you have a complicated player setup like most large templates will, if you want to export each individual patch you have to continually load the whole thing and delete everything except what you want to export. Exporting patches is kind of more trouble than it's worth at that point.



I thought the same but recently found that we can save specific instruments with how we customize them and load them one by one instead of saving the entire Play content. The 3 line button left of the settings button gives an option to save, save as, and open. I use ‘save as’ to save my own as I believe ‘save’ would alter the default. Then use open to load them the same as from the folders with the add or replace option. Can also create our own folders and sub folders where to save them and they are .ewi

Try it out. Hope it can give you a much broader option of accessing customized specific instruments instead of groups of instruments. 😉


----------



## pmcrockett

MrBuck said:


> I thought the same but recently found that we can save specific instruments with how we customize them and load them one by one instead of saving the entire Play content. The 3 line button left of the settings button gives an option to save, save as, and open. I use ‘save as’ to save my own as I believe ‘save’ would alter the default. Then use open to load them the same as from the folders with the add or replace option. Can also create our own folders and sub folders where to save them and they are .ewi
> 
> Try it out. Hope it can give you a much broader option of accessing customized specific instruments instead of groups of instruments. 😉


Yes, this works in the sense that saving is possible at one level, but if you have, say, a strings legato and a staccato loaded in the player, S_ave as_ will save both the legato and staccato in the same .ewi file. As far as I know, there's no way to choose to save legato as one .ewi and staccato as a separate .ewi. If you want to do that, you have to delete one of them from the player first so that _Save as _will only save the one thing in the .ewi instead of both. In Kontakt terms, it would be the equivalent of being able to save Kontakt multis but not Kontakt instruments.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Breaker said:


> Play has been rock solid for the last 5+ years.
> Now if they could only:
> -add customisable keyswitch patches
> -add simple purge like in Kontakt
> -add MIDI learn (mainly for mic positions)
> -re-design some of the older libraries UI’s
> -get rid of the memory restriction
> 
> None of this should require Play Pro or other nonsense
> 
> 
> 
> I think they pulled the plug on soundsonline forum some months ago without much of a warning and the forum links at soundsonline.com now lead to Facebook.
> So definitely +1 on shoddy communication.


Yeah I commented on the lack of communication around the delay of HOOPUS, to which they said they would give my message to the marketing team

Money talks more than customer queries.


----------



## Mystic

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Yeah I commented on the lack of communicationa around the delay of HOOPUS, to which they said they would give my message to the marketing team
> 
> Money talks more than customer queries.


They've always been like this. It's why I don't waste my time even trying to contact them anymore.


----------



## cqd

The new interface rocks..






Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest


Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.




www.soundsonline.com


----------



## pcarrilho

Yahhhh !!!!


----------



## cqd

pcarrilho said:


> Yahhhh !!!!


My sentiments exactly..


----------



## SupremeFist

That looks _sweet. _


----------



## EgM

Would still like to see how keyswitches are managed, the text says it's customizable so there's hope 

_Powerful new control features include Master key-switches where all articulations can be fully customized in the new OPUS articulation palette._


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Praise the Lord - "In addition, we simplified all instrument versions down to LITE and MAX, making Hollywood Strings in particular much easier to navigate."

Interface does look great (though would like to see what that Articulations panel looks like) and nice they have put the MIDI control legend right up front (no more manual diving!). MOODS seems like a pretty interesting mixing feature too.


----------



## AndyP

cqd said:


> The new interface rocks..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soundsonline.com


Ahhhh, finally a date!

3 things caught my eye immediately:
- midi control
- Performance Time
- Mood (soft, classic, epic)

I am so expectant ....


----------



## AndyP

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Praise the Lord - "In addition, we simplified all instrument versions down to LITE and MAX, making Hollywood Strings in particular much easier to navigate."
> 
> Interface does look great (though would like to see what that Articulations panel looks like) and nice they have put the MIDI control legend right up front (no more manual diving!). MOODS seems like a pretty interesting mixing feature too.


I recognize immediately if someone has a good eye!


----------



## AndyP

Ahhhhh ... now I am really excited ...

_"At the same time as the release of Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition, we are releasing an additional expansion product Hollywood Orchestrator. Developed in collaboration with Sonuscore, Hollywood Orchestrator uses all the instruments in Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition to create realtime arrangem_ents"


----------



## John R Wilson

Ok this looks awesome!!


----------



## gsilbers

nice. 

The same guy who made kontakt, and the same main guy who worked on cubase worked on this engine. 
worth the wait.


----------



## John R Wilson

gsilbers said:


> nice.
> 
> The same guy who made kontakt, and the same main guy who worked on cubase worked on this engine.
> worth the wait.



Sounds like this is going to be an awesome update!


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> The new interface rocks..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soundsonline.com



I initially thought you were joking 

Yes, very cool GUI indeed. Jan. 21st, 2021. Hopefully they release it on that date, with no further delays.


----------



## erodred

Forgive me if this was discussed or I misunderstand the article. They mentioned in it about Gold people should upgrade to Diamond, etc. Is this then therefore an update to all their existing packages? So current users will get the upgrade to the new UI (which looks amazing) and controls? Or is it a new product that we have an upgrade from the older Hollywood Orchestra? Debating if I should subscribe to composer cloud plus or not....


----------



## Markrs

Insanely excited by the opus update. This sounds like an amazing update with some series talent working on it.


----------



## lettucehat

mfw Modern Scoring Strings, Opus, and Cinesamples 60% off on the same day. Glad I didn't impulse buy anything yet.


----------



## Gauss

Is that Play Pro?


----------



## Beans

lettucehat said:


> mfw Modern Scoring Strings, Opus, and Cinesamples 60% off on the same day. Glad I didn't impulse buy anything yet.



Cinematic Studio Woodwinds also received new info in the megathread.


----------



## lettucehat

Beans said:


> Cinematic Studio Woodwinds also received new info in the megathread.



Lol! All we need is the Vista try-pack and we're all caught up.


----------



## muziksculp

The Holywood Orchestrator might be fun, and helpful too :

*Quote from their site*

" _At the same time as the release of Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition, we are releasing an additional expansion product Hollywood Orchestrator. Developed in collaboration with Sonuscore, Hollywood Orchestrator uses all the instruments in Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition to create realtime arrangements based on your MIDI input with our innovative Scoring Engine. Build your own rhythms and scores with the StepEditor. Create Patterns with a length up to 4 bars. Get started quickly with more than 400 Presets in different categories and moods. There's playable full orchestral articulations and MIDI record and export. It's the whole Hollywood Orchestra right at your fingertips with up to 16 Patches across all instrument sections. Hollywood Orchestrator is the perfect tool both for new composers who want to get that Hollywood blockbuster sound within seconds and for professional composers who need to produce large amounts of compositions on a deadline. Hollywood Orchestrator is an optional add-on that requires Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition. All ComposerCloud members will get instant access to Hollywood Orchestrator as well as the OPUS software engine_. "


----------



## Gauss

muziksculp said:


> _Developed in collaboration with Sonuscore_


Sounds like Hollywood Orchestra meets The Orchestra!


----------



## pcarrilho

but... reading the EW site... i think Opus are not included on Clod X subscription... junto on Cloud PLUS. Hope i am wrong...


----------



## lettucehat

_"We strongly encourage our Gold users to upgrade to Diamond, and ComposerCloud and ComposerCloud X subscribers to upgrade to ComposerCloud Plus while the 50% off offer is available during our Black Friday special."_

This does suggest it doesn't have to be one big purchase if you go the non-subscription route. By library seems right.



pcarrilho said:


> but... reading the EW site... i think Opus are not included on Clod X subscription... junto on Cloud PLUS. Hope i am wrong...



Nah it sounds like you just don't get to take full advantage of mics, same as before. Good news!


----------



## ShidoStrife

_MOODS works best in the Diamond editions that include all mic positions mixed by Shawn Murphy. We strongly encourage our Gold users to upgrade to Diamond
_
I guess this confirms there _will_ be Gold edition, just not with full advantage of the MOODS. Also notice the plural in _editions_. Which could mean there will still be options to buy the sections separately?

Now all we need is pricing.


----------



## AndyP

ShidoStrife said:


> Now all we need is pricing.


Thanks to the delay of HOOPUS I was able to blow the budget for BF.


----------



## Richard Bowling

ShidoStrife said:


> _MOODS works best in the Diamond editions that include all mic positions mixed by Shawn Murphy. We strongly encourage our Gold users to upgrade to Diamond
> _
> I guess this confirms there _will_ be Gold edition, just not with full advantage of the MOODS. Also notice the plural in _editions_. Which could mean there will still be options to buy the sections separately?
> 
> Now all we need is pricing.



Looks like there will be options to download individual instruments...

From soundsonline :
“Not only is it faster, more powerful, more flexible, and better looking than PLAY, it comes with some incredible new features such as individual instrument downloads...”


----------



## Breaker

Wow, that GUI looks a lot like Audio Imperia’s new one 

I have been thinking about the Berlin series sale (now that I have a computer to run it) but if EW plays this one right HOOPUS could offer some serious competition, the potential is there.


----------



## nolotrippen

This has "new car pricing" written all over it.


----------



## Markrs

I am wondering whether to get EWHO Diamond before this releases in case they stop what has been so far the never ending 60% off sale.


----------



## peladio

muziksculp said:


> The Holywood Orchestrator might be fun, and helpful too :
> 
> *Quote from their site*
> 
> "_Hollywood Orchestrator is the perfect tool both for new composers who want to get that Hollywood blockbuster sound within seconds and for professional composers who need to produce large amounts of compositions on a deadline._"



Sounds idiotic to be honest..but really excited for Opus


----------



## I like music

They waiting until Biden's in before releasing this? Assuming they didn't want Trump taking credit for this good thing.

But in all seriousness, great.


----------



## SlHarder

lettucehat said:


> Nah it sounds like you just don't get to take full advantage of mics, same as before. Good news!


All ComposerCloud members will get instant access to Hollywood Orchestrator as well as the OPUS software engine.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

SlHarder said:


> All ComposerCloud members will get instant access to Hollywood Orchestrator as well as the OPUS software engine.



Yes, but only two mic positions for Cloud X subscribers (as I just confirmed with support). I've always been a "Gold guy", so I'm perfectly okay with that. The BF deal is $19.99 a month, which is a no-brainer IMO.

Wolfgang Schneider, the creator of Kontakt, was part of the library development. Should be awesome!!


----------



## Zero&One

As long as the browser doesn't still resemble the War and Peace novel I'm in.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Ugh, still getting boned on upgrade path. What a joke.

159 to go from gold to diamond or full purchase diamond is like 106.


----------



## lettucehat

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Ugh, still getting boned on upgrade path. What a joke.
> 
> 159 to go from gold to diamond or full purchase diamond is like 106.



Huh? The Diamond libraries are 160 and the upgrade is more, I thought. That's always been a problem.

Anyway, it seems like everybody gets Opus at this point, and the version you have of HS, HB, etc. determines how many mics you get, same as before. Unless I'm missing something.


----------



## Jdiggity1

If the different editions are incompatible with each other just like the current Hollywood Orchestra, then that's a major downside.
ie. A project created with Gold currently can not be opened with Diamond, and vice versa. If this has been addressed with the update, I'll be a happy chappy.


----------



## szczaw

_Sonuscore... _So the orchestrator is in fact an arpeggiator.


----------



## SlHarder

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Yes, but only two mic positions for Cloud X subscribers (as I just confirmed with support). I've always been a "Gold guy", so I'm perfectly okay with that. The BF deal is $19.99 a month, which is a no-brainer IMO.


Being a subscriber means no angst while I sit back and wait for Jan 21.
Gold CloudX is my sweet spot, 2 mics have been plenty for me.


----------



## Mike Fox

cqd said:


> The new interface rocks..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soundsonline.com


That looks seriously impressive!


----------



## Michael Antrum

This looks terrific, but if anyone imagines it is going to be a cheap upgrade, I think they are deluding themselves.

I think that East West are going to position themselves back at the high end of the market.....

The annual subscription for for the diamond version is normally 599 USD a year. That’s a lot more than I paid for a permanent licence for HWO Diamond....

By golly it does look interesting though....


----------



## mcalis

Whew, it's really looks like quite the update. This in particular makes me very happy:



> Particular focus was placed on Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds. After improving the original woodwinds, new ensembles were recorded, including 3 bassoons, 3 clarinets, and 3 flutes.



That new UI doesn't only look very nice, it's quite brilliant how they've kept the design quite familiar to what everyone is already used to in PLAY.

Those two titans of industry (the Wolfgangs) working on the development of the player is also a very good sign. So far, I'm not spotting any particular red flags. It really looks like a lot of features that have been asked for for ages have now been made available.


----------



## szczaw

Michael Antrum said:


> This looks terrific, but if anyone imagines it is going to be a cheap upgrade, I think they are deluding themselves.



If their claim of having half a million HO users is even remotely true, then money making strategy ought to be getting most of the userbase on board with attractive upgrade price.


----------



## Zero&One

mcalis said:


> they've kept the design quite familiar to what everyone is already used to in PLAY.



Maybe it's just a skin 

" we simplified all instrument versions down to LITE and MAX, making Hollywood Strings in particular much easier to navigate."

I hope that doesn't translate to, LITE has a few patches in it, whilst MAX is the same mess.


----------



## I like music

They didn't mention a purge function, but they said that you could play instruments as they loaded. Does that imply some sort of purge? And if the Kontakt fellow is involved, I hope the first thing he implemented was a good purge capability.


----------



## szczaw

This suggests a free upgrade:

We strongly encourage our Gold users to upgrade to Diamond, and ComposerCloud and ComposerCloud X subscribers to upgrade to ComposerCloud Plus while the 50% off offer is available during our Black Friday special.

Edit: Unless the Gold users also refers to subscribers.


----------



## AllanH

This sounds like a substantial move forward for EWQL. I especially like that they appear to have rewritten play to make it more modern ("With these two titans of the music software development now on the team, we decided it was time to develop a brand new software engine from the ground up."). Hopefully, the upgrade it will be reasonably priced for existing customers.


----------



## Zero&One

szczaw said:


> This suggests a free upgrade:



Does it? It reads to me, upgrade whilst this offer is on and it'll take the sting out of the upgrade later on.


----------



## ShidoStrife

A new facebook post by them. It won't be free. They even emphasize it will cost significantly higher


----------



## szczaw

Well, I got diamond versions of HO and solo instruments for %60 off + group buy. If additional 200 gbs, new player and an arpeggiator going to cost significantly higher, then I'm going to pass.


----------



## AndyP

We are still spoiled by the permanent sale prices. 60% less for Hollywood Orchestra was already a hefty discount. I paid a lot more for it, and those were already reduced prices.

I suspect non-cloud users, and owners of the HO Diamond version will not find the starting price below or around $500. Of course, this is pure speculation, but I took Sonuscore The Orchestra as a comparison. This package goes in a similar direction, but will sound better by classes.


----------



## method1

Wondering if it's worth upgrading to Orch Diamond (I only have Strings Diamond and there's no upgrade path!) or just getting the subscription upgrade... Im guessing after the update comes out I won't really be using the current version anymore...


----------



## khollister

A someone who owns HO Diamond (and Stormdrum 2/3) and loves the basic sound (if not the UI/methodology), I'm hopeful for OPUS and the new/revised content.

The big question for me is whether to jump on the subscription now (get OPUS/Orchestrator plus other libraries I don't own) or take a chance that the upgrade won't be $500+? The $300 for a year's sub might be worth it to play with Ra, Silk, Gypsy, Ghostwriter, Dark Side, etc. as well as get hands on with OPUS to see if I'm interested. 

What's everybody's plan here?


----------



## szczaw

AndyP said:


> We are still spoiled by the permanent sale prices. 60% less for Hollywood Orchestra was already a hefty discount.



That's right, I'll bunker down and wait for another 60% off.


----------



## J-M

I don't currently have the funds for the diamond edition (story of my life)...The new interface looks clean and all the marketing speech sounds pretty interesting. I'm hoping for a purge function and a reasonable upgrade price.


----------



## MauroPantin

Definitely excited for this one!


----------



## Eptesicus

I'm excited and it looks great, but how good/exciting this will be is going to really depend on the upgrade price for existing Hollywood Orch Diamond users.

I understand that its quite an overhaul in interface terms and that there are a few new recordings so im not expecting some free or token small amount update. However if it gets silly and starts getting into new library cost territory, then its too much as it will fundamentally sound the same as what we have already bought.

I'm unfortunately a bit pessimistic that its going to be disappointingly high, in which case i wont get it.


----------



## AndyP

khollister said:


> A someone who owns HO Diamond (and Stormdrum 2/3) and loves the basic sound (if not the UI/methodology), I'm hopeful for OPUS and the new/revised content.
> 
> The big question for me is whether to jump on the subscription now (get OPUS/Orchestrator plus other libraries I don't own) or take a chance that the upgrade won't be $500+? The $300 for a year's sub might be worth it to play with Ra, Silk, Gypsy, Ghostwriter, Dark Side, etc. as well as get hands on with OPUS to see if I'm interested.
> 
> What's everybody's plan here?


Subscrition is not an option for me, because most other EW libraries don't interest me that much, or I have already licensed them.

If OPUS delivers what I hope for I will buy the license. If I think that the price/performance ratio is right.


----------



## Gerbil

khollister said:


> What's everybody's plan here?



Let everybody else test it first.


----------



## lettucehat

Yeah I hope they don't go the Slate route of keeping the permanent/own prices of individual products so high above the subscription that it never makes sense to buy, thereby funneling everybody into the subscription. The current prices on older libraries are pretty reasonable. Luckily this will have been out for a while before my renewal, and I'm planning on hopping off either way. Hope the upgrade to Opus isn't too rough for merely two orchestra sections.


----------



## ShidoStrife

AndyP said:


> We are still spoiled by the permanent sale prices. 60% less for Hollywood Orchestra was already a hefty discount. I paid a lot more for it, and those were already reduced prices.
> 
> I suspect non-cloud users, and owners of the HO Diamond version will not find the starting price below or around $500. Of course, this is pure speculation, but I took Sonuscore The Orchestra as a comparison. This package goes in a similar direction, but will sound better by classes.



My thought exactly. Also eastwest is very bad with upgrade pricing. The current upgrade from EWHO gold to EWHO diamond costs the same as buying diamond outright. I imagine going from HO to HOOPUS will be expensive, at least initially.


----------



## Lannister

Just spoke to support, and apparently upgrade price sales (from Gold to Diamond) will be in February.


----------



## AllanH

khollister said:


> A someone who owns HO Diamond (and Stormdrum 2/3) and loves the basic sound (if not the UI/methodology), I'm hopeful for OPUS and the new/revised content.
> 
> The big question for me is whether to jump on the subscription now (get OPUS/Orchestrator plus other libraries I don't own) or take a chance that the upgrade won't be $500+? The $300 for a year's sub might be worth it to play with Ra, Silk, Gypsy, Ghostwriter, Dark Side, etc. as well as get hands on with OPUS to see if I'm interested.
> 
> What's everybody's plan here?



My plan is to wait and see what the upgrade price is. It's not as if HO Diamond or Stormdrums will stop working. They will remain fantastic "as is". Still, given how much I like the sound of HO Diamond, I will likely upgrade unless the upgrade path seems unreasonable. From my prespetive, EWQL has generally provided fair pricing on upgrades, even though they don't offers upgrades from all possible upgrade paths.


----------



## Jose7822

Well at least we don’t have to wait that long. Glad they finally announced a release date!


----------



## pmcrockett

Honestly, I finally have most of the Hollywood series working more or less the way I want via articulation maps and general tweaks, so I'm perfectly content to wait and see what the situation will be with regard to upgrades. It's unlikely I'll jump on it immediately -- moving to HOOPUS just means I'll have to redo all those templates that currently work pretty well.


----------



## dcoscina

Frankly I'm burnt out from all the hype for this that and the other thing. When it comes out, I will judge it then.


----------



## method1

I just pulled the trigger and upgraded to Plus, had a few months left which were credited so it wasn't that painful.. except for the part where I now have 2 subscriptions even though I followed the upgrade steps


----------



## Casiquire

szczaw said:


> If their claim of having half a million HO users is even remotely true, then money making strategy ought to be getting most of the userbase on board with attractive upgrade price.


Sure, after you give it an air of prestige by overpricing it for a year or two so only the top high end users are using it, then slowly bring the price down. It worked with the original version!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

khollister said:


> What's everybody's plan here?



Ive always used the Gold versions, and I only pay $15 a month for Cloud X. It’s a helluva deal considering it will be included, so that’s my plan.


----------



## easyrider

Do I need to do anything with composer cloud X?

What does this mean?

Upgrades are available for ComposerCloud and ComposerCloud X members today. ComposerCloud X members will receive a credit for the remainder of your current plan towards this special Black Friday offer


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

easyrider said:


> Do I need to do anything with composer cloud X?
> 
> What does this mean?
> 
> Upgrades are available for ComposerCloud and ComposerCloud X members today. ComposerCloud X members will receive a credit for the remainder of your current plan towards this special Black Friday offer



If you’re upgrading Plus, it’s on sale right now. Otherwise, you don’t need to do anything.


----------



## awaey

any discount for owner QLSymphony orchestra ?


----------



## darthdeus

Do we know when is Opus coming out? I was a little surprised to see this thread so active.


----------



## easyrider

Jeremy Spencer said:


> If you’re upgrading Plus, it’s on sale right now. Otherwise, you don’t need to do anything.



So I still get it with composer cloud X?


----------



## SlHarder

easyrider said:


> So I still get it with composer cloud X?


Yes, quite the bonus at no extra cost.


----------



## ShidoStrife

khollister said:


> What's everybody's plan here?



For context, I don't have any orchestral libraries except for SStWW. I'm on composercloudX for student ($10 a month) that ends on March.

I plan to just buy gold now and wait. If no good upgrade offer comes within a year or so, I'll buy CSS or something else to replace the strings and pretend the money I spend for gold now was for purchasing the brass+percussion+backup strings.

I don't hate HS, though. It's just too cumbersome to use with the separate patches per articulations and Play's purge function (no dynamic loading like Kontakt)


----------



## Gerbil

awaey said:


> any discount for owner QLSymphony orchestra ?


They might give you a butter legato kazoo patch.


----------



## szczaw

Casiquire said:


> Sure, after you give it an air of prestige by overpricing it for a year or two so only the top high end users are using it, then slowly bring the price down. It worked with the original version!



They could be strapped for cash now. For months now, they've been offering drastic discounts of the entire catalog.


----------



## Casiquire

szczaw said:


> They could be strapped for cash now. For months now, they've been offering drastic discounts of the entire catalog.


I highly doubt it but it's not impossible. They might have discounted it down to get users on the hook. Maybe I'm just being cynical haha


----------



## jcrosby

If EW don't reveal this library by Dec 21st (as per usual) I'm officially referring to it from here out as HOOPUS POOPUS.


----------



## cqd

Casiquire said:


> I highly doubt it but it's not impossible. They might have discounted it down to get users on the hook. Maybe I'm just being cynical haha



That's what I would think too..


----------



## szczaw

Casiquire said:


> I highly doubt it but it's not impossible. They might have discounted it down to get users on the hook. Maybe I'm just being cynical haha


It's California, high taxes and lockdowns. Blowout like that will cause surge in sales and later prolonged slump. But when that hits, Opus comes out.


----------



## SlHarder

jcrosby said:


> If EW don't reveal this library by Dec 21st


According to their website the official release date is JAN 21, 2021. Fwiw.


----------



## darthdeus

I wonder if this will already support Apple Silicon ... would be nice.


----------



## lettucehat

Casiquire said:


> I highly doubt it but it's not impossible. They might have discounted it down to get users on the hook. Maybe I'm just being cynical haha



Yeah they're fine, they just know what HO is worth in 2020, when people care so much about usability.


----------



## dcoscina

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Ive always used the Gold versions, and I only pay $15 a month for Cloud X. It’s a helluva deal considering it will be included, so that’s my plan.



I have Diamond and literally have never used it. Whenever I did use HW series it was Gold..


----------



## Mike Fox

Michael Antrum said:


> This looks terrific, but if anyone imagines it is going to be a cheap upgrade, I think they are deluding themselves.
> 
> I think that East West are going to position themselves back at the high end of the market.....
> 
> The annual subscription for for the diamond version is normally 599 USD a year. That’s a lot more than I paid for a permanent licence for HWO Diamond....
> 
> By golly it does look interesting though....


If the samples themselves are crazy good, i don't think people are going to care about the cost... to a great extent anyway.

Just look at the ridiculously long 
BBCSO thread and the amount of people who coughed up the dough for it.


----------



## jcrosby

SlHarder said:


> According to their website the official release date is JAN 21, 2021. Fwiw.


HOOPUS POOPUS it is!!


----------



## cqd

dcoscina said:


> I have Diamond and literally have never used it. Whenever I did use HW series it was Gold..



Man.. diamond is a different league really, I think..


----------



## Mike Fox

cqd said:


> Man.. diamond is a different league really, I think..


It really is.


----------



## dcoscina

cqd said:


> Man.. diamond is a different league really, I think..


Yeah I actually did use Diamond strings when they first came out but that was it.


----------



## Toecutter

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Ive always used the Gold versions, and I only pay $15 a month for Cloud X. It’s a helluva deal considering it will be included, so that’s my plan.


Do I need a coupon for $15? Will the price increase after a while? CloudX is $19.99 for me.


----------



## cqd

I'm having to talk myself out of the solo instruments at the minute..


----------



## Audio Birdi

This is amazing news! Play Pro is essentially now OPUS Engine!  I hope all EW libraries are being migrated to it and take advantage of the new features! :D


----------



## Robo Rivard

The GUI looks nice.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Toecutter said:


> Do I need a coupon for $15? Will the price increase after a while? CloudX is $19.99 for me.



$19 is a good price, I got mine a few years ago when it was on sale.


----------



## Toecutter

Jeremy Spencer said:


> $19 is a good price, I got mine a few years ago when it was on sale.


And EW never adjusted the price? That is great. I'm considering CloudX to check Opus out.


----------



## khollister

I talked to a EW rep today via chat and asked about the BF cloud pricing. He stated that if you subscribe with the BF price, your subscription will renew at that price - it doesn't go back up to "regular" price.


----------



## erodred

khollister said:


> I talked to a EW rep today via chat and asked about the BF cloud pricing. He stated that if you subscribe with the BF price, your subscription will renew at that price - it doesn't go back up to "regular" price.



Is this the same if you buy the license as a gift and the renewal period is happening?


----------



## Jose7822

Audio Birdi said:


> This is amazing news! Play Pro is essentially now OPUS Engine!  I hope all EW libraries are being migrated to it and take advantage of the new features! :D



People, PLAY PRO died a looooong time ago. It was supposed to be a Kontakt competitor, with full sampling capabilities. We now know that this is a new PLAYBACK engine developed from the ground up. Please stop saying it’s PLAY PRO. They don’t even call it PLAY anymore. It’s called the OPUS engine. Ahhhhhh!!! :-P


----------



## khollister

erodred said:


> Is this the same if you buy the license as a gift and the renewal period is happening?



What he said is "the subscription renews at the price you paid" If you already have a Composer Cloud Plus subscription, you might need to not renew and then purchase a new one? I suggest you use their chat feature on the website to ask about your specific circumstance


----------



## erodred

khollister said:


> What he said is "the subscription renews at the price you paid" If you already have a Composer Cloud Plus subscription, you might need to not renew and then purchase a new one? I suggest you use their chat feature on the website to ask about your specific circumstance



Thank you! I will try that.


----------



## erodred

khollister said:


> What he said is "the subscription renews at the price you paid" If you already have a Composer Cloud Plus subscription, you might need to not renew and then purchase a new one? I suggest you use their chat feature on the website to ask about your specific circumstance








This is taken from the terms at http://www.soundsonline.com/static/eastwest-terms-and-conditions.html

Looks like it will depend on the credit card at the time you paid.


----------



## 98bpm

I didn’t read anything about updates or improvements to the solo instuments. These have been unsatisfactory to me in the past and I’ve never used the solo violin I purchased years ago.


----------



## RogiervG

still not convinced its a major upgrade worth the anticipation.


----------



## Nicola74

It seems it will arrive on 21st of january...





Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest


Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.




www.soundsonline.com


----------



## JyTy

khollister said:


> I talked to a EW rep today via chat and asked about the BF cloud pricing. He stated that if you subscribe with the BF price, your subscription will renew at that price - it doesn't go back up to "regular" price.



Haha well, BF price is their "regular" price anyway, just a discount if you pay for the whole year upfront (they are just changing the sales labels through the year)... hard to keep track since everything is constantly on sale... but the Plus subscription is always priced like that as far as I can remember... but definitely worth it though! Don't get me wrong... I'm a Plus subscriber and I love it! But this kind of "fake" marketing pisses me off...


----------



## spacejay

Love the GUI, so much better then the old one. As a Diamond user who is def not going to be getting OPUS I'd be really happy if this was available to bog standard users but somehow doubt it.

I've just read some of the details (should of done it before posting ) and OPUS is a replacement for PLAY so no, stuck with the crappy GUI.


----------



## Vadium

As I see on Strings GUI, users must again select srnd mics between vintage and normal.. hmm.. I do not need a new graphic design, but a useful functional


----------



## Zamenhof

I have to admit that I’m over-the-top excited over HOOPUS! I might of course just be buying in to great marketing, but the fact that they brought in experts from Kontakt and Sonuscore makes me think that this is much more than a graphical overhaul.

I was disappointed that The Orchestra Complete wasn’t om sale yesterday. Now I’m relieved. I‘m going all-in on Opus as well as Orchestrator. I’m a brainless fanboi already, and EW should just ask for my credit card number already.


----------



## szczaw

One of the new features: the ability to start playing instruments while they're loading. That's part of the same mechanism as sample purging.


----------



## awaey

Gerbil said:


> They might give you a butter legato kazoo patch.



I am thinking for Greek Yoghurt Pizzicato can give high Protein to string section


----------



## Architekton

So are these the old Hollywood libraries mixed with new recordings or everything is new? If everything is new, I might hop on the subscription train.

Btw, Mood option sounds interesting, wonder if we will be able to automate it...so we can in same track switch from soft to epic sound, etc...and not opening another instance of the player.


----------



## Eptesicus

Architekton said:


> So are these the old Hollywood libraries mixed with new recordings or everything is new? If everything is new, I might hop on the subscription train.
> 
> Btw, Mood option sounds interesting, wonder if we will be able to automate it...so we can in same track switch from soft to epic sound, etc...and not opening another instance of the player.



Its mostly old , with a few new ensemble patches thrown in.

The key draw will be usability and ease of use because the play engine and how HO is set out is a pain in the butt.


----------



## Architekton

Ok, thx! Is there any way I can see a comparison between HO Gold and Diamond/Platinum? That way I can probably see what will be the diffrence between Opus Gold and Diamond/Platinum. Their website is confusing.


----------



## szczaw

Old HO diamond is 663 gbs, solo instruments 74 gbs, new content is 200 gbs, quite a heft package.


----------



## Eptesicus

szczaw said:


> quite a heft package.



That's what she said.


----------



## cedricm

erodred said:


> Forgive me if this was discussed or I misunderstand the article. They mentioned in it about Gold people should upgrade to Diamond, etc. Is this then therefore an update to all their existing packages? So current users will get the upgrade to the new UI (which looks amazing) and controls? Or is it a new product that we have an upgrade from the older Hollywood Orchestra? Debating if I should subscribe to composer cloud plus or not....


The way I understand it, but I could be wrong, is that it is an exclusive for ComposerCloud Plus.
Subscribers from ComposerCloud/X won't be entitled to the upgrade - ever.0, unless they upgrade to ComposerCloud Plus.
Or by purchasing it as a new product.
So unfortunately I don't this Opus will be offered to customers as a free Play Upgrade.


----------



## zimm83

More infos on the Orchestrator ...Is it a step sequencer ? pattern trigger ? 16 tracks ???


----------



## Markrs

cedricm said:


> The way I understand it, but I could be wrong, is that it is an exclusive for ComposerCloud Plus.
> Subscribers from ComposerCloud/X won't be entitled to the upgrade - ever.0, unless they upgrade to ComposerCloud Plus.
> Or by purchasing it as a new product.
> So unfortunately I don't this Opus will be offered to customers as a free Play Upgrade.


From the September blog post:


> There will be an upgrade path for existing users of Hollywood Orchestra. The Opus Edition and Orchestrator will be included in EastWest’s multiple award-winning subscription service ComposerCloud, and both will be available for purchase.





> *Want instant access to EastWest Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition and Hollywood Orchestrator as soon as they are released? *
> 
> Just subscribe to EastWest ComposerCloud X or ComposerCloud Plus - the annual membership service which features their award-winning virtual instrument collections. Get access to over 40,000 instruments and instant access to newly released titles!








EastWest Announces Hollywood Backup Singers Audio Plugin


EastWests announces Hollywood Backup Singers - a vocal vst plugin. Learn more & discover why our audio plugins are used by top composers & musicians.




www.soundsonline.com





With the ComposerCloud Plus you get all the mics which works better with the Moods option


----------



## cedricm

zimm83 said:


> More infos on the Orchestrator ...Is it a step sequencer ? pattern trigger ? 16 tracks ???


I expect it to be an improved system to what's available in The Orchestra from Sonusccore + the preset editor that Sonuscore uses internally but doesn't give access to its customers, and of course much easier transfer to midi.

As for me, I'm betting the Composer subscriptions will still be available for Xmas at BF's price, so that's a few weeks to collect more information on these new products.


----------



## DS_Joost

Well, that's it then. I just subscribed to Composercloud. I just thought of the price of this upgrade, combined with shelling out for Hollywood Choirs somewhere next year and Ra and Silk and Stormdrum 2 and... Yeah combining the price of all those together, even reduced, would be a serious amount of cash. So I just figured the price of Composercloud is actually really good.


----------



## Caleb Joshua

so, do you have to load all the mics to use the mood feature, or are they mixed and purged like OT does? My HWO Template is over 20gigs of memory usage as it is and even on an nvme drive it takes a minute to load new mics. If they got rid of redundant string patches etc maybe the total size will be smaller or about the same? I hope its easier or about the same on the cpu also.


----------



## erodred

DS_Joost said:


> Well, that's it then. I just subscribed to Composercloud. I just thought of the price of this upgrade, combined with shelling out for Hollywood Choirs somewhere next year and Ra and Silk and Stormdrum 2 and... Yeah combining the price of all those together, even reduced, would be a serious amount of cash. So I just figured the price of Composercloud is actually really good.



I am thinking of doing the same. I am a relative beginner and figure it’s the best way to add things and see what my music needs are. The new UI is instantly hooking me. I have Gold but was mostly using Nucleus for a bit.


----------



## DS_Joost

erodred said:


> I am thinking of doing the same. I am a relative beginner and figure it’s the best way to add things and see what my music needs are. The new UI is instantly hooking me. I have Gold but was mostly using Nucleus for a bit.



I started out more than 10 years ago. All things I've bought together, man, I don't even want to think about how much money I poured into this. If someone told me I could have all these instruments for 20 euros a month back then, I would've signed up immediately!


----------



## Raphioli

ShidoStrife said:


> Also eastwest is very bad with upgrade pricing



It seriously is.

My situation is even more complicated.
I was actually one of the first to buy Hollywood Strings Diamond for around 1k.
Also have Brass, but when I asked if there's any reasonable upgrade path to the full HO Diamond edition,
they just told me that I should buy the Full version of HO Diamond during BF lol.

I guess they don't really care about their existing users or just want people to join their cloud subscription.

I'm not sure if OPUS is available separately for each section, but if it is, I might think of upgrading HS Diamond to OPUS, but if its only available as a Full Orchestral package, I'm out of luck.


----------



## dzilizzi

Raphioli said:


> It seriously is.
> 
> My situation is even more complicated.
> I was actually one of the first to buy Hollywood Strings Diamond for around 1k.
> Also have Brass, but when I asked if there's any reasonable upgrade path to the full HO Diamond edition,
> they just told me that I should buy the Full version of HO Diamond during BF lol.
> 
> I guess they don't really care about their existing users or just want people to join their cloud subscription.
> 
> I'm not sure if OPUS is available separately for each section, but if it is, I might think of upgrading HS Diamond to OPUS, but if its only available as a Full Orchestral package, I'm out of luck.


On the plus side, at 60% off plus the "group" discount code at JRRShop, you can get the whole diamond orchestra for about a third of the price you paid for the strings only. It will be about $313.


----------



## Raphioli

dzilizzi said:


> On the plus side, at 60% off plus the "group" discount code at JRRShop, you can get the whole diamond orchestra for about a third of the price you paid for the strings only. It will be about $313.


I guess I just don't feel like re-purchasing something I already own... It just doesn't feel right.
Its not just about the money, but also about how they treat their existing customers.

Thx for the heads up though!


----------



## AllanH

I do think that EW made it more difficult to upgrade than necessary. All the various paths from silver, gold, and diamond from each of the HO releases. That alone is 26 upgrade paths just to Diamond! It's generally cheaper to just buy Diamond and save the old licenses for another system.


----------



## Jay Panikkar

There's something wonky with their new page on HOOPUS ( http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-orchestra-opus-edition ) it wasn't loading properly for me. 

Here are some of the highlights from the page:



> Coming January 21. Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition... includes brand new pristine recordings, reimagined original content, and powerful new features, all housed in our new revolutionary OPUS software engine.





> Brand new recordings include a new 18 violin string section for Hollywood Strings, new ensembles for Hollywood Brass and Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds, plus new string, brass, and wind multi ensembles. "The new 18 violins are an alternate to the first 16 violins of the original library. They have a different sound," says producer Nick Phoenix, "the players are different. The vibrato is different. The legato is the best we have ever recorded. They work well with the existing collection or as a replacement for the original 1st violins. The new 2 tenor trombones have a completely different sound from the 3 trombones in the original collection. The new trombones are warm, full, and extremely precise. 2 trumpets were recorded again using two of the best players in the Hollywood film score scene. The legato is blazing at high velocities and sounds like a live performance."





> The programming of the original content from Hollywood Orchestra has been updated to take advantage of the features included in the new Opus software engine, as well as the Hollywood Solo Instrument Series (now included in this expansion). Particular focus was placed on Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds. After improving the original woodwinds, new ensembles were recorded, including 3 bassoons, 3 clarinets, and 3 flutes.





> Powerful new control features include Master key-switches where all articulations can be fully customized in the new OPUS articulation palette. You can also customize the sound of each instrument using the new MOODS feature. Classic Mood is the original Hollywood Orchestra sound. Soft Mood modifies the sound for slower, more emotional passages. Epic Mood does the opposite, giving you a sound perfectly suited for your next Action Adventure score.





> ... multiple Academy Award and BAFTA winner Shawn Murphy... has created special mic mixes for Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition, including an additional recorded mic position for all new instrument ensembles that is made up of all "off-axis" close mics that were open, but not played directly into. This extra mic position is perfect for capturing the larger sound of EastWest Studio One, the home of countless Hollywood film and television scores.





> At the same time as the release of Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition, we are releasing an additional expansion product Hollywood Orchestrator. Developed in collaboration with Sonuscore, Hollywood Orchestrator uses all the instruments in Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition to create realtime arrangements based on your MIDI input with our innovative Scoring Engine. Build your own rhythms and scores with the StepEditor. Create Patterns with a length up to 4 bars. Get started quickly with more than 400 Presets in different categories and moods. There's playable full orchestral articulations and MIDI record and export.



Looks exciting enough, there's lots of things I wasn't expecting. I'm not sure how well the new content will fit in with the old one.


----------



## Toecutter

Those who own HO Diamond, how often do you use the extra microphones?


----------



## JonS

Hanu_H said:


> Coming Fall 2020
> 
> HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRA OPUS EDITION and HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRATOR
> 
> Over 230 Gigabytes of pristine new recordings. Powerful new features. A separate Orchestrator that will assist you in creating award-winning compositions within seconds, and much more!
> 
> What you guys think about this?


I think if the upgrade price from HOD is reasonable I may be interested.


----------



## EgM

Toecutter said:


> Those who own HO Diamond, how often do you use the extra microphones?



Always


----------



## Ashermusic

Toecutter said:


> Those who own HO Diamond, how often do you use the extra microphones?



Frequently.


----------



## cqd

Toecutter said:


> Those who own HO Diamond, how often do you use the extra microphones?



My template is everything with its own mix..
It's one area actually where play is superior to the opposition I think.. adding or changing mics is a pleasure.. better than kontakt..and my computer doesn't have a heart attack like with the spitfire player..


----------



## clisma

Toecutter said:


> Those who own HO Diamond, how often do you use the extra microphones?


All the time. Kind of indispensable to me for getting closer to a spacious sound. But that's just me.


----------



## NoamL

Toecutter said:


> Those who own HO Diamond, how often do you use the extra microphones?



I use all but the surrounds for Hollywood Strings. It's not a huge room. But mixing the Mid, Main and Close is useful.


----------



## AndyP

Toecutter said:


> Those who own HO Diamond, how often do you use the extra microphones?


80% - close mics


----------



## peladio

Hopefully there will be a reasonable (I know, EastWest) upgrade path for HO Gold owners, really don't have any interest to buy subscriptions..


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Even though I bought both Silver and Diamond HO over the past year, I'm personally really tempted to just get the monthly Plus plan as there are 4 or 5 other libraries I want to try too. I think it makes sense to do that until I am in a position to buy outright on a future BF, as also will know by then if I am even going to use them over other libraries I have.


----------



## Toecutter

@EgM @Ashermusic @cqd @clisma @NoamL @AndyP
Thanks guys!! You have convinced me, Diamond it is


----------



## Markus Kohlprath

Something I never figured out. Is there a way to change the mics globally in a play instance? Let alone assigning a midi cc. In the moment I have to adjust each articulation individually with the mouse which is far to time consuming. I suppose I miss something about it. How do you guys do this?


----------



## Breaker

Markus Kohlprath said:


> Something I never figured out. Is there a way to change the mics globally in a play instance? Let alone assigning a midi cc. In the moment I have to adjust each articulation individually with the mouse which is far to time consuming. I suppose I miss something about it. How do you guys do this?



The is no way to assign mic faders to MIDI cc in Play, hopefully this will be fixed in the new UI.
And there are no global mic faders either, so the only to adjust mics is to do it one by one.
The fact that there is no numerical indicator for the faders doesn't make it any easier.


----------



## ned3000

Markus Kohlprath said:


> Something I never figured out. Is there a way to change the mics globally in a play instance? Let alone assigning a midi cc. In the moment I have to adjust each articulation individually with the mouse which is far to time consuming. I suppose I miss something about it. How do you guys do this?



I send the different mics for all instruments within an instance to different Play outputs (all "Close" mics to "1&2", all "Main" mics to "3&4" etc.) and then adjust the relative levels with the DAW mixer.


----------



## wcreed51

Will older libraries be compatible with the Opus Player?


----------



## Audio Birdi

wcreed51 said:


> Will older libraries be compatible with the Opus Player?


This is what I'm hoping they are doing, making everything OPUS compatible, then we can use the articulation-keyswitch builder on all instruments, which would be cool. Especially if the keyswitch builder is universal and isn't tied to HOOPUS only. :D


----------



## Mystic

Wish they gave us some indication of upgrade cost from Diamond.


----------



## Tremendouz

I'm very much out of the loop here. Is the whole HO product range getting updated or only Diamond? Wondering what Gold will cost after the update, it currently being $223 at everyplugin.com.

So far I've been hesitant to recommend gold for other people as a budget option to check out cause I don't have experience on Play but if the new sampler is better...


----------



## Johnny

I would be excited to hear a demo track with just the HOOPUS library exclusively, not the usual EW black magic with live supporting orchestra embedded in their Hollywood String demos. Maybe they can just have Thomas J. throw back like it's 2010 and release a brand new hit? ;p


----------



## purple

I'm just waiting to hear these fabled new recordings and better scripting. Such changes are enough to justify not rushing to cancel my subscription or at least considering buying one of these libs before I do so. Have they posted anything on this that I am just unaware of?


----------



## khollister

purple said:


> I'm just waiting to hear these fabled new recordings and better scripting. Such changes are enough to justify not rushing to cancel my subscription or at least considering buying one of these libs before I do so. Have they posted anything on this that I am just unaware of?



No demos yet, but they have been fairly specific about what is getting redone/recorded:






Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest


Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.




www.soundsonline.com


----------



## khollister

StarfireBlack said:


> Even though I bought both Silver and Diamond HO over the past year, I'm personally really tempted to just get the monthly Plus plan as there are 4 or 5 other libraries I want to try too. I think it makes sense to do that until I am in a position to buy outright on a future BF, as also will know by then if I am even going to use them over other libraries I have.



I'm thinking the same thing. I own HO Diamond and SD3, but am curious to try/use Hollywood Choir, Voices of Empire, Voices of Passion, Ra, Silk, Ghostwriter, Dark Side, etc.

I figure $300 for a year is reasonable to get access for extended evaluations as well as early access to HOOPUS. I really doubt the upgrade cost for that is going to be reasonable on day 1.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Tremendouz said:


> So far I've been hesitant to recommend gold for other people as a budget option to check out cause I don't have experience on Play but if the new sampler is better...



Play is not a sampler, and I'm pretty sure HOOPUS isn't either....they are just players (and very capable). I personally highly recommend Gold, and not as a budget option; I've used it professionally for many years. If one doesn't need 24bit samples, bow changes, or multiple mic choices, it's a great choice.


----------



## Ashermusic

Personally, having the close mics for the woodwinds and the vintage mics for the strings are a must, but Opus may change that.


----------



## Fa

If Opus will finally make Choirs WB work, I will buy it immediately  but after years of useless updates I fear it won't be the case... anyway let's see. I will probably buy a month of cloud and try it.


----------



## Ashermusic

Fa said:


> If Opus will finally make Choirs WB work, I will buy it immediately  but after years of useless updates I fear it won't be the case... anyway let's see. I will probably buy a month of cloud and try it.



It already works, but it takes some real time to get skilled with it. Personally, I chavevnit admittedly.


----------



## purple

Ashermusic said:


> It already works, but it takes some real time to get skilled with it. Personally, I chavevnit admittedly.


I mean, it kind of works. Very buggy and sluggish and not as well implemented as similar choir engines that have been released more recently... Hopefully the new player will come with new scripting optimization.


----------



## José Herring

Fa said:


> If Opus will finally make Choirs WB work, I will buy it immediately  but after years of useless updates I fear it won't be the case... anyway let's see. I will probably buy a month of cloud and try it.


I think the key is to do it in Votox. Personally I tried English and the first time I did it it did wonderfully, every time after that it's not even picking the right vowel sounds.


----------



## Fa

Ashermusic said:


> It already works, but it takes some real time to get skilled with it. Personally, I chavevnit admittedly.


Com'on Asher, we had this conversation already. I'm more than skilled after 15 years of using it in any possible way. The sync of WB internal CC and external timing simply doesn't work and levels of syllabes elements get not updated, driving to wrong volume, wrong link and even just missing sounds at all in any seriously programmed sequence. You were not able of helping me (as EWQL support, even worse) and you even admitted you never used it at my level... so please don't defend it with simplistic and uninformed statements, thank you in advance.


----------



## Fa

José Herring said:


> I think the key is to do it in Votox. Personally I tried English and the first time I did it it did wonderfully, every time after that it's not even picking the right vowel sounds.


Yes of course. I use mostly Latin, then VOTOX only. The problem is with the internal MIDI processor, managing the fade-in and fade-out of sounds components. It has memory-buffer and synch serious problems, and it works well only first time (or live), but playing a sequence with custom syllabes and tempo changes will kill the programming, even if you use and save the "learn" tempo function. I didn't find a single user able of running it, as I wasn't able in any system and any daw, both Mac and Win. I also sent a challenge and I can relaunch it... if anybody is able of making it work just show me how, and what's the system  nobody ever answered, including Asher.


----------



## Fa

Back On Topic... the actual official statement say that Opus is supposed to "replace Play" and it let's hope that other libraries can run in Opus as well, perhaps after an update/adaptation.

I love several of the HO sounds I own, and the 2 Syn and Holly Choirs concept, then if Opus will offer any improvement in WB as well, that will be a dream-come-true for me, maybe for several other people working with Choral Music as well. Obviously it would apply to Backup-Singers also...


----------



## Ashermusic

Fa said:


> Com'on Asher, we had this conversation already. I'm more than skilled after 15 years of using it in any possible way. The sync of WB internal CC and external timing simply doesn't work and levels of syllabes elements get not updated, driving to wrong volume, wrong link and even just missing sounds at all in any seriously programmed sequence. You were not able of helping me (as EWQL support, even worse) and you even admitted you never used it at my level... so please don't defend it with simplistic and uninformed statements, thank you in advance.



I don’t know except to say that Nick Phoenix and Ryan Thomas seem to get it to work well, so apparently it can be done.

But other choir libraries have word builders and if people find them better, I have no problem with them saying so.


----------



## Casiquire

Breaker said:


> The is no way to assign mic faders to MIDI cc in Play, hopefully this will be fixed in the new UI.
> And there are no global mic faders either, so the only to adjust mics is to do it one by one.
> The fact that there is no numerical indicator for the faders doesn't make it any easier.


There is a numerical value in the Mixer tab


----------



## pmcrockett

Fa said:


> Yes of course. I use mostly Latin, then VOTOX only. The problem is with the internal MIDI processor, managing the fade-in and fade-out of sounds components. It has memory-buffer and synch serious problems, and it works well only first time (or live), but playing a sequence with custom syllabes and tempo changes will kill the programming, even if you use and save the "learn" tempo function. I didn't find a single user able of running it, as I wasn't able in any system and any daw, both Mac and Win. I also sent a challenge and I can relaunch it... if anybody is able of making it work just show me how, and what's the system  nobody ever answered, including Asher.





Ashermusic said:


> I don’t know except to say that Nick Phoenix and Ryan Thomas seem to get it to work well, so apparently it can be done.


I'm with Fa on this. I love Hollywood Choirs to death and consider myself an advanced-level user of it -- it's one of my favorite libraries and I've done some really impressive things with it -- but the wordbuilder is pretty janky from a technical perspective. I periodically have to reload my DAW session when using it because it eventually just stops playing things back correctly and can only be fixed by a reload. DAW sync has trouble following tempo changes (in Reaper, at least). Copy/paste doesn't copy automation edits.

It's usable, and it's the only real contender as wordbuilders go, but it can definitely be improved.


----------



## Ashermusic

pmcrockett said:


> I'm with Fa on this. I love Hollywood Choirs to death and consider myself a advanced-level user of it -- it's one of my favorite libraries and I've done some really impressive things with it -- but the wordbuilder is pretty janky from a technical perspective. I periodically have to reload my DAW session when using it because it eventually just stops playing things back correctly and can only be fixed by a reload. DAW sync has trouble following tempo changes (in Reaper, at least). Copy/paste doesn't copy automation edits.
> 
> It's usable, and it's the only real contender as wordbuilders go, but it can definitely be improved.



That’s reasonable, let’s hope so. The easiest one I have used is Realivox Blue, but she is a solo, not a choir.


----------



## José Herring

Fa said:


> Yes of course. I use mostly Latin, then VOTOX only. The problem is with the internal MIDI processor, managing the fade-in and fade-out of sounds components. It has memory-buffer and synch serious problems, and it works well only first time (or live), but playing a sequence with custom syllabes and tempo changes will kill the programming, even if you use and save the "learn" tempo function. I didn't find a single user able of running it, as I wasn't able in any system and any daw, both Mac and Win. I also sent a challenge and I can relaunch it... if anybody is able of making it work just show me how, and what's the system  nobody ever answered, including Asher.


Challenge accepted! 

Honestly I have a choir piece that I did with a real choir I'd love to see if HC and Votox could handle it. Might take me a while though. I'm a new user.


----------



## Ashermusic

In another thread, Living Fossil wrote: 
"Hi, i'm using the word builder from EastWest occasionally and it works fine.
It has a learning curve but i think it's worth the efforts.
(You will have to tweak several parameters, and sometimes replace the orthography of words)"


----------



## Breaker

Casiquire said:


> There is a numerical value in the Mixer tab


True, but thats two extra clicks.


----------



## Casiquire

Breaker said:


> True, but thats two extra clicks.


Agreed it's less available but with my compulsion toward symmetry i can't sleep unless i know every mic is dialed into the same number across all groups lmao


----------



## Breaker

Casiquire said:


> Agreed it's less available but with my compulsion toward symmetry i can't sleep unless i know every mic is dialed into the same number across all groups lmao



Yeah, been there and done that. I have probably spent more time making 0.1 db corrections to mic positions in my templates than any of the developers have spent matching their articulations


----------



## I like music

Casiquire said:


> Agreed it's less available but with my compulsion toward symmetry i can't sleep unless i know every mic is dialed into the same number across all groups lmao



I know the pain. The most frustrating part of it is that I wish I gave this much attention to my actual music ...


----------



## José Herring

From the looks of OPUS it doesn't seem like the new player is going to be multi-timbral, but rather you load all the articulations for each instrument in one instance on the same channel, kind of like the Spitfire Player. I don't know as I only have the one picture of the GUI to gauge by.

So if this replaces Play then what's going to happen to our templates that use multiple channels? Also, it has been stated that HOOPUS isn't going to replace the old library but will be an addition to it so you can use both. Wondering how that's possible since the old library was organized around the idea of limited keyswitching and multi-timbral operation. Hmmmmm....


----------



## Jose7822

José Herring said:


> From the looks of OPUS it doesn't seem like the new player is going to be multi-timbral, but rather you load all the articulations for each instrument in one instance on the same channel, kind of like the Spitfire Player. I don't know as I only have the one picture of the GUI to gauge by.
> 
> So if this replaces Play then what's going to happen to our templates that use multiple channels? Also, it has been stated that HOOPUS isn't going to replace the old library but will be an addition to it so you can use both. Wondering how that's possible since the old library was organized around the idea of limited keyswitching and multi-timbral operation. Hmmmmm....



I don’t think that’s how OPUS will work. I believe you’ll still be able to load multiple articulations per instance. I don’t see EW backtracking from that workflow. Remember, Nick said that the old articulation tree will be kept in a legacy folder. Instead, what they’ll probably do is to let us load articulations as you do in PLAY, but with the ability to customize keyswitches. A merge between PLAY and AI’s Jaeger, if you will.

Of course, these are just my assumptions. I don’t have inside knowledge, so take this with a grain of salt.


----------



## Fa

Ashermusic said:


> In another thread, Living Fossil wrote:
> "Hi, i'm using the word builder from EastWest occasionally and it works fine.
> It has a learning curve but i think it's worth the efforts.
> (You will have to tweak several parameters, and sometimes replace the orthography of words)"



Dear Asher, 
I don't get why you insist with the idea that it's only a matter of skill, it's a matter of parameters, etc.

I find it a bit disrespectful for the people explaining in a precise and technical way what's the problem.

I can make a training about it, I know the manual word by word, I used it since the very first day when it was on Kontakt... I'm a programmer and beta tester, I cooperate with developers, I know what I'm talking about, and I should provide copies of the frustrating communications with the EW support. BUT...

Do we really need it? We have several advanced users experiencing issues... do you mean we are all incompetent and superficial beginners?

I talk about synch, internal MIDI flow, timing, about compatibility with sequenced data in the DAW and tempo changes... may we come back to the precise point and stop "advertising and defending" with generic (and not substantiated) claims?

I can provide a MIDI sequence + Lyrics and/or project files, and I would love to see who can make a real video of the WB properly managing it as expected, in whatever system. BUT... isn't it Off-topics?

with friendly respect, but expecting the same, Best Regards
Fabio


----------



## Fa

José Herring said:


> Challenge accepted!
> 
> ...I'm a new user.



Good Luck!


----------



## Ashermusic

Fa said:


> Dear Asher,
> I don't get why you insist with the idea that it's only a matter of skill, it's a matter of parameters, etc.
> 
> I find it a bit disrespectful for the people explaining in a precise and technical way what's the problem.
> 
> I can make a training about it, I know the manual word by word, I used it since the very first day when it was on Kontakt... I'm a programmer and beta tester, I cooperate with developers, I know what I'm talking about, and I should provide copies of the frustrating communications with the EW support. BUT...
> 
> Do we really need it? We have several advanced users experiencing issues... do you mean we are all incompetent and superficial beginners?
> 
> I talk about synch, internal MIDI flow, timing, about compatibility with sequenced data in the DAW and tempo changes... may we come back to the precise point and stop "advertising and defending" with generic (and not substantiated) claims?
> 
> I can provide a MIDI sequence + Lyrics and/or project files, and I would love to see who can make a real video of the WB properly managing it as expected, in whatever system. BUT... isn't it Off-topics?
> 
> with friendly respect, but expecting the same, Best Regards
> Fabio



I am not insisting anything. I am just pointing out that other users who have spent time with it have reached different conclusions than you.

Doesn’t make their opinions right and yours wrong, but neither does it make the opposite true.


----------



## szczaw

I use HC quite a bit and I haven't experienced any technical issues. I don't make any tempo changes while the choir is 'singing'. That would be odd. Using WB however requires far more focus than just banging on keys and that can lead to some frustration.


----------



## AndyP

Toecutter said:


> @EgM @Ashermusic @cqd @clisma @NoamL @AndyP
> Thanks guys!! You have convinced me, Diamond it is


You will not regret it.


----------



## Fa

Ashermusic said:


> I am not insisting anything. I am just pointing out that other users who have spent time with it have reached different conclusions than you.
> 
> Doesn’t make their opinions right and yours wrong, but neither does it make the opposite true.



Ok, I want to think it's probably a misunderstanding... what you mention are "opinions" and time musical results.

I got excellent musical results, and I had to spend quite a bit of time doing it, then on this point we agree 100%.

But it has nothing to do with previous statements and the topic "WB is not working well, and even doesn't work at all with some tempo changes and <learn> function, doesn't repeat in playback what has been recorded live etc." and all the precise bug reports we discussed in previous posts.

That is not "opinion" nor the musical result. It's about facts, and features, and workflow. 

Finally the topic was "I hope Opus will make it work in all the situations it's not working today", and sorry, but your "it's already working" answer is a factual statement, not opinion, and it's not true. 

I can demonstrate it whenever you like, but you won't make a good service to EW if you force me to do it... do you really want we dig into the dirty? I don't recommend it. That will produce the opposite result of what you try to do.


----------



## Ashermusic

Fa said:


> Ok, I want to think it's probably a misunderstanding... what you mention are "opinions" and time musical results.
> 
> I got excellent musical results, and I had to spend quite a bit of time doing it, then on this point we agree 100%.
> 
> But it has nothing to do with previous statements and the topic "WB is not working well, and even doesn't work at all with some tempo changes and <learn> function, doesn't repeat in playback what has been recorded live etc." and all the precise bug reports we discussed in previous posts.
> 
> That is not "opinion" nor the musical result. It's about facts, and features, and workflow.
> 
> Finally the topic was "I hope Opus will make it work in all the situations it's not working today", and sorry, but your "it's already working" answer is a factual statement, not opinion, and it's not true.
> 
> I can demonstrate it whenever you like, but you won't make a good service to EW if you force me to do it... do you really want we dig into the dirty? I don't recommend it. That will produce the opposite result of what you try to do.



First of all, I have not worked for EW for over three years, so I have no dog in this hunt.

Secondly, there is a difference between "it's already working", which is an objective statement and "it's working well" which is subjective.

If where we are possibly looking to agree is "it could work better" then my only answer always will be, does a compettive product work better? If so, then EW does need to improve it. If not well maybe its just too frigging hard to get a word builder to do it.


----------



## Fa

szczaw said:


> I use HC quite a bit and I haven't experienced any technical issues. I don't make any tempo changes while the choir is 'singing'. That would be odd. Using WB however requires far more focus than just banging on keys and that can lead to some frustration.



Yes, I agree. About tempo changes by the way, I don't think they were excluded, and usually music has tempo changes, if it is supposed to sound human.


----------



## Ashermusic

Fa said:


> About tempo changes by the way, I don't think they were excluded, and usually music has tempo changes, if it is supposed to sound human.




On that, we totally agree.


----------



## Fa

Ashermusic said:


> First of all, I have not worked for EW for over three years, so I have no dog in this hunt.
> 
> Secondly, there is a difference between "it's already working", which is an objective statement and "it's working well" which is subjective.
> 
> If where we are possibly looking to agree is "it could work better" then my only answer always will be, does a compettive product work better? If so, then EW does need to improve it. If not well maybe its just too frigging hard to get a word builder to do it.



Ok got it: well, perhaps you are not familiar with marketing and features substantiation, I don't pretend you are. Obviously we are in a soft and safe industry, not in medical devices, no strict regulatory affairs etc.

But when you advertise features and you write in a manual about a process to get the features, if executing the instructions you don't get the promised result, this is considered a malfunction, a bug... the product is "not working". That's all.

I think we spent even too much words on that, and I let you and the happy customers enjoy, while I stay with the others that hope the product will sometime work the way it is supposed to work, even if the competitors didn't do it, because competitors have not being paid by us for delivering promised features.

peace and love, and have fun with music.


----------



## Ashermusic

Fa said:


> But when you advertise features and you write in a manual about a process to get the features, if executing the instructions you don't get the promised result, this is considered a malfunction, a bug... the product is "not working".



Then in my experience, by that standard 98 percent of all sample libraries are "not working." Maybe 99.8 percent.

Ok, we are done.


----------



## szczaw

Fa said:


> Yes, I agree. About tempo changes by the way, I don't think they were excluded, and usually music has tempo changes, if it is supposed to sound human.


I'd say that note humanization makes music sound more human. Tempo changes add variety.


----------



## Ashermusic

szczaw said:


> I'd say that note humanization makes music sound more human. Tempo changes add variety.




Really, so you know humans who can play at a tempo without a click that will be dead on the tempo throughout?


----------



## szczaw

Ashermusic said:


> Really, so you know humans who can play at a tempo without a click that will be dead on the tempo throughout?


If by tempo changes you mean slight variation of the tempo throughout the song, then yeah that occurs in the real world. Performances get better with practice and experience. By tempo changes I mean deliberate and more drastic changes that are part of composition.


----------



## Ashermusic

szczaw said:


> If by tempo changes you mean slight variation of the tempo throughout the song, then yeah that occurs in the real world. Performances get better with practice and experience. By tempo changes I mean deliberate and more drastic changes that are part of composition.



Ah, I see,


----------



## nolotrippen

Gerbil said:


> They might give you a butter legato kazoo patch.


Don't tease.


----------



## szczaw

Someone should do a blind listening test of tunes with tempo drift and without it. I think the result would be random or close to it. That could save some people a bit of time.


----------



## Jose7822

szczaw said:


> Someone should do a blind listening test of tunes with tempo drift and without it. I think the result would be random or close to it. That could save some people a bit of time.



Naw...it would definitely be noticeable. You can hear time drift in any live orchestral piece. Why have a conductor otherwise?


----------



## szczaw

Jose7822 said:


> Naw...it would definitely be noticeable. You can hear time drift in any live orchestral piece. Why have a conductor otherwise?



Conductor is there to minimize the drift ?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

José Herring said:


> From the looks of OPUS it doesn't seem like the new player is going to be multi-timbral,



Why do you think that? Aside from the “skin”, it looks nearly identical.


----------



## szczaw

I'm pretty sure the orchestrator is not going to be mono-timbral


----------



## Jose7822

szczaw said:


> Conductor is there to minimize the drift ?



Not just that. The function of the conductor is also to interpret the music, which you do via dynamics and tempo drifts. Traditional Orchestral music have LOTS of tempo variances. Try setting a metronome to a traditional orchestral piece. Good luck getting it to match the whole way through.

The thing is that a lot of current Orchestral music is done on a computer. Also, video game music requires more rigid tempos in order to loop well. There’s a purpose for that type of music being set to a specific tempo. But, IMO, Orchestral music sounds best when the tempo is not rigid BECAUSE that’s the way it’s been done for centuries.


----------



## borisb2

Johnny said:


> .. not the usual EW black magic with live supporting orchestra embedded in their Hollywood String demos..


live supporting orchestras in HWS demos? Did I miss the memo?


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Ashermusic said:


> First of all, I have not worked for EW for over three years


Time to move on bro...


----------



## Collywobbles

Personally, I would love to have a little drop-down list next to ''Microphones" with a few presets you can save/load. This would allow you to come up with a mic mix you like and simply copy it to any other instrument. It obviously shouldn't save any panning info though, since that is instrument specific.


----------



## purple

Collywobbles said:


> Personally, I would love to have a little drop-down list next to ''Microphones" with a few presets you can save/load. This would allow you to come up with a mic mix you like and simply copy it to any other instrument. It obviously shouldn't save any panning info though, since that is instrument specific.


Even better if it allowed you to like shift+click or something to carry also the panning when you want to... Say you're putting the mic mix on multiple articulation tracks or something like that.


----------



## Collywobbles

purple said:


> Even better if it allowed you to like shift+click or something to carry also the panning when you want to... Say you're putting the mic mix on multiple articulation tracks or something like that.


Great idea, I usually leave the default panning, but having the option to copy that as well would be great now that you mention it.


----------



## Jose7822

jneebz said:


> Apparently “This Fall” extends into the New Year....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soundsonline.com



Not meant to sound rude, but we’ve already covered that. At least now there’s an actual release date.


----------



## ookami

Just bought a 1TB SSD and made the Upgrade to ComposerCloudPlus, to be able to get the most out of the new OPUS Moods,.. Just installed the first Platinum version, and ok I know some said yes go Diamond/Platin, it sounds better,... but the difference is so huge !!!!


----------



## Markrs

ookami said:


> Just bought a 1TB SSD and made the Upgrade to ComposerCloudPlus, to be able to get the most out of the new OPUS Moods,.. Just installed the first Platinum version, and ok I know some said yes go Diamond/Platin, it sounds better,... but the difference is so huge !!!!


I would have made the upgrade as well but I am on the student deal which works out crazy cheap for CCX, but you can't help wonder if I am not missing out on having the Diamond versions


----------



## Audio Birdi

Markrs said:


> I would have made the upgrade as well but I am on the student deal which works out crazy cheap for CCX, but you can't help wonder if I am not missing out on having the Diamond versions


The student deal will remain that price forever upon renewal, unless you cancel the subscription, so it's an extra-win too!


----------



## Markrs

Audio Birdi said:


> The student deal will remain that price forever upon renewal, unless you cancel the subscription, so it's an extra-win too!


I was hoping that was the case! Makes it hard to move off that to CC Plus


----------



## Zamenhof

ookami said:


> Just bought a 1TB SSD and made the Upgrade to ComposerCloudPlus



I wonder how large Hollywood Orchestra Opus will be. I just bought a 1TB SSD too, but I'm afraid it might not be enough for the full Opus. The old Hollywood Orchestra Diamond is around 600 GB, the solo instruments are 200 GB, and EastWest advertises 200 GB of new content. I really hope they manage to keep it under 1TB.

Kind regards
Peter


----------



## cqd

I'm wondering should I buy the solo instruments before opus..


----------



## Markrs

I've decided to hold off getting HO Diamond until opus is out. My only concern is the discounts stop once Opus is out. I have CCX so I will still get to use it but keen to have the extra mics.


----------



## ookami

Zamenhof said:


> I wonder how large Hollywood Orchestra Opus will be. I just bought a 1TB SSD too, but I'm afraid it might not be enough for the full Opus. The old Hollywood Orchestra Diamond is around 600 GB, the solo instruments are 200 GB, and EastWest advertises 200 GB of new content. I really hope they manage to keep it under 1TB.
> 
> Kind regards
> Peter


My 1TB is now full with the Diamond Versions of the Solo Instruments and the HO Versions, so I maybe need to get another one for the Opus Content 😂😂


----------



## lettucehat

I would caution against any of the solo instruments, unfortunately... there are just so so many better options. There are also other EWQL libraries definitely worth buying if you're planning on getting off the cloud or want to take advantage of whatever Opus brings. Depends on your work, but yeah I'd say solo instruments are way down the list.


----------



## Tremendouz

I wonder if it's time to grab HO Gold for 220 bucks before the update comes. I'm afraid it'll then jump to $500 and no sales in the near future


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Markrs said:


> My only concern is the discounts stop once Opus is out.



A recent e-mail from Eastwest implied the discounts stop 4th of January (If i remember correctly, deleted it already)


----------



## lettucehat

AceAudioHQ said:


> A recent e-mail from Eastwest implied the discounts stop 4th of January (If i remember correctly, deleted it already)



Worth noting for sure. However, there has also already been at least one "end" to the current endless 60% off sale before (perhaps summer?) and then they just continue it. Dunno what to make of it.


----------



## Tremendouz

I just need to decide if I need the strings, brass and percussion if I already have CSS, CSB and NI Symphony Series Percussion 😄

Gold for $223 is too tempting, someone stop me please!


----------



## I like music

Tremendouz said:


> I wonder if it's time to grab HO Gold for 220 bucks before the update comes.



Worth grabbing it even without Opus as a consideration. Well worth the price, and more, for what it already is IMO!


----------



## Tremendouz

I like music said:


> Worth grabbing it even without Opus as a consideration. Well worth the price, and more, for what it already is IMO!


The only thing that's putting me off is Play. I've heard that the patches load slooow, which would kinda suck since I can load a whole CSS 
track template with all articulations in a matter of 5 seconds.

Also, I "only" have 32GB RAM and Play doesn't have similar purge function to kontakt


----------



## I like music

Tremendouz said:


> The only thing that's putting me off is Play. I've heard that the patches load slooow, which would kinda suck since I can load a whole CSS
> track template with all articulations in a matter of 5 seconds.
> 
> Also, I "only" have 32GB RAM and Play doesn't have similar purge function to kontakt



Very similar boat to you. Basically I'm on 32GB RAM and had to pick between HWS and CSS. Went with CSS because of purgability etc. That said, one day I'll upgrade and then, BANG, HWS is back in! Currently it is just collecting dust on another hard drive. My favourite string sound though (does big and lush really well and I think is a nice complement to CSS)

I'm not sure the HWS stuff loads more slowly, but the patches are sometimes HUGE, so the effect is the same.

But all in all, I'd pay that money just for the strings (if I had the RAM)


----------



## Tremendouz

I like music said:


> Very similar boat to you. Basically I'm on 32GB RAM and had to pick between HWS and CSS. Went with CSS because of purgability etc. That said, one day I'll upgrade and then, BANG, HWS is back in! Currently it is just collecting dust on another hard drive. My favourite string sound though (does big and lush really well and I think is a nice complement to CSS)
> 
> I'm not sure the HWS stuff loads more slowly, but the patches are sometimes HUGE, so the effect is the same.
> 
> But all in all, I'd pay that money just for the strings (if I had the RAM)


Are you talking diamond or gold? I don't have the ssd space for diamond so I'd go with gold which is well under 100gb iirc and probably easier on RAM too


----------



## gst98

I don't think patches load slower than kontakt. In fact at least with Play you can do things in your DAW as they load where as Kontakt completely takes over your DAW during loading. The only reason it seems slower is the patches are _much_ bigger. Worst case is the full string legato patches (slur+bow change+port) which are 9574mb per mic position! So obviously something this deeply sampled is going to take longer than a typical legato patch.


----------



## dzilizzi

lettucehat said:


> Worth noting for sure. However, there has also already been at least one "end" to the current endless 60% off sale before (perhaps summer?) and then they just continue it. Dunno what to make of it.


Oh, no, there have been multiple sales. You just didn't realize it because as soon as one ends, the next starts. They just look the same because they mostly are.


----------



## lettucehat

dzilizzi said:


> Oh, no, there have been multiple sales. You just didn't realize it because as soon as one ends, the next starts. They just look the same because they mostly are.



See: Waves


----------



## Casiquire

I'm genuinely a little concerned for everyone choosing to wait until OPUS drops


----------



## Markrs

In case anyone wants HO Diamon it is currently $136 at JRR shop



https://vi-control.net/community/threads/hollywood-orch-diamond-134-06.103428/



Expired


----------



## Tremendouz

Markrs said:


> In case anyone wants HO Diamon it is currently $136 at JRR shop
> 
> 
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/hollywood-orch-diamond-134-06.103428/


There goes my plan to settle with Gold and not have to buy a third SSD 😆


----------



## lettucehat

Man I just want brass diamond super cheap...


----------



## AndyP

Please, give us HOOPUS ...


----------



## NoamL

dzilizzi said:


> Oh, no, there have been multiple sales. You just didn't realize it because as soon as one ends, the next starts. They just look the same because they mostly are.



Same with CineSamples... this is the longest "24 HOURS ONLY" of all time!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

NoamL said:


> Same with CineSamples... this is the longest "24 HOURS ONLY" of all time!


Interstellar would like to have a word with you **cue mountains**


----------



## AndyP

The Tina Guo Bundle is very attractive... I will buy this tomorrow.


----------



## Tremendouz

So, the OPUS upgrade will include a bunch of new recordings and refinements of existing stuff (woodwinds were mentioned).

Now, I'm obviously not expecting the new recordings as a free update but I'm wondering if the programming improvements for existing material are coming to all versions of HO or if you're forced to upgrade to get that.


----------



## szczaw

The update is not going to be free. Apparently EW has ungenerous upgrade policy. It's cheaper to buy diamond library on sale than to upgrade from gold. For the upgrade, I'd expect to pay close to the full product price, but who knows. We'll see.


----------



## purple

szczaw said:


> The update is not going to be free. Apparently EW has ungenerous upgrade policy. It's cheaper to buy diamond library on sale than to upgrade from gold. For the upgrade, I'd expect to pay close to the full product price, but who knows. We'll see.


Good thing I'm on the cloud!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

szczaw said:


> The update is not going to be free. Apparently EW has ungenerous upgrade policy. It's cheaper to buy diamond library on sale than to upgrade from gold. For the upgrade, I'd expect to pay close to the full product price, but who knows. We'll see.


Many times it's been the case that upgrading from two HW gold libraries to even the orchestra gold would cost more than the package. 


I've even emailed them twice to point this out, that it's more expensive to upgrade from money you've spent than it is to just buy it and they know and just don't care. So from a customer PoV it's pretty atrocious


----------



## lettucehat

They usually do a sale on upgrades specifically during Valentine's, but with OPUS coming in January who knows.


----------



## José Herring

Tremendouz said:


> I just need to decide if I need the strings, brass and percussion if I already have CSS, CSB and NI Symphony Series Percussion 😄
> 
> Gold for $223 is too tempting, someone stop me please!


Go for the Diamond.


----------



## José Herring

hbjdk said:


> I agree, just keep in mind that Diamond requires a minimum of 64 GB ram, plus ideally multiple SSDs to run properly. Otherwise it’s better to get Gold, I think.


Oh yeah, I forgot about that part.


----------



## Markrs

hbjdk said:


> I agree, just keep in mind that Diamond requires a minimum of 64 GB ram, plus ideally multiple SSDs to run properly. Otherwise it’s better to get Gold, I think.


hopefully the new Opus might improve on this and reduce what is needed to run it.


----------



## RogiervG

hbjdk said:


> I agree, just keep in mind that Diamond requires a minimum of 64 GB ram, plus ideally multiple SSDs to run properly. Otherwise it’s better to get Gold, I think.


not always true. depends on how many articulations and instruments loaded. with 32gb you get far too. and then there is always the track freeze option


----------



## Tremendouz

RogiervG said:


> not always true. depends on how many articulations and instruments loaded. with 32gb you get far too. and then there is always the track freeze option


Also it seems like there's also a bit depth option (can use 16bit samples?). I have 32GB but I ended up with Diamond since it was cheaper at JRRShop


----------



## Markrs

Tremendouz said:


> Also it seems like there's also a bit depth option (can use 16bit samples?). I have 32GB but I ended up with Diamond since it was cheaper at JRRShop


16bit samples are only with Gold, you don't get an option to use them with Diamond, only 24bit get downloaded


----------



## Tremendouz

Markrs said:


> 16bit samples are only with Gold, you don't get an option to use them with Diamond, only 24bit get downloaded


Ah yes, I guess the thing in the UI isn't something you can change, just an info panel displaying the bit depth


----------



## Tremendouz

szczaw said:


> The update is not going to be free. Apparently EW has ungenerous upgrade policy. It's cheaper to buy diamond library on sale than to upgrade from gold. For the upgrade, I'd expect to pay close to the full product price, but who knows. We'll see.


I'm not expecting OPUS to be free, I'm just wondering if they will bring the programming improvements of the old, existing content to everyone or if the current HO version will be neglected.


----------



## purple

Tremendouz said:


> I'm not expecting OPUS to be free, I'm just wondering if they will bring the programming improvements of the old, existing content to everyone or if the current HO version will be neglected.



I would imagine the old version will be left behind. Why pour resources into doubling the amount of patch work you need to do by updating what is essentially a deprecated version of the libraries?


----------



## Tremendouz

purple said:


> I would imagine the old version will be left behind. Why pour resources into doubling the amount of patch work you need to do by updating what is essentially a deprecated version of the libraries?


Couldn't they just use the same patches for both if they're porting the old libraries to the OPUS engine anyway (which they seem to plan doing according to a message I saw somewhere in this thread)?


----------



## Jose7822

As far as I understand, you’ll still be able to use the old patches. It’ll probably be placed inside a Legacy folder.


----------



## Toecutter

Jose7822 said:


> As far as I understand, you’ll still be able to use the old patches. It’ll probably be placed inside a Legacy folder.


Yep, talked to EW support and was told the old patches will be in a legacy folder for backward compatibility.


----------



## Casiquire

lettucehat said:


> Man I just want brass diamond super cheap...


It IS super cheap!


----------



## Geomir

As a very happy owner of EWHO Gold (both its total size and the main mic included is perfect for me), I am starting to be worried by reading these things.

I can't believe that I will wake up at 21th of January, open my projects and get a message: "_Sorry sir, your EWHO library doesn't exist anymore, you should pay us $400 to upgrade to the OPUS edition, or else all your projects will be unusable, and the money you spent on your EWHO Gold will be wasted. Please upgrade today or delete your Play 6 patches from all your projects_".

I suppose that will be a very bad move from EW, and so far this company has excellent support for me. So I hope those "legacy folders" will be still usable for all the owners of EWHO, who are completely broke because of the last Black Friday sales...


----------



## Kent

Geomir said:


> As a very happy owner of EWHO Gold (both its total size and the main mic included is perfect for me), I am starting to be worried by reading these things.
> 
> I can't believe that I will wake up at 21th of January, open my projects and get a message: "_Sorry sir, your EWHO library doesn't exist anymore, you should pay us $400 to upgrade to the OPUS edition, or else all your projects will be unusable, and the money you spent on your EWHO Gold will be wasted. Please upgrade today or delete your Play 6 patches from all your projects_".
> 
> I suppose that will be a very bad move from EW, and so far this company has excellent support for me. So I hope those "legacy folders" will be still usable for all the owners of EWHO, who are completely broke because of the last Black Friday sales...


What?


----------



## dzilizzi

Markrs said:


> 16bit samples are only with Gold, you don't get an option to use them with Diamond, only 24bit get downloaded


This is kind of annoying. With EWQLSO you get the option of 16/24 bit by buying the Platinum version. With HO, you have to have Gold and Diamond to get both, though you don't get the mic choices in Gold. 

But then, if you buy on sale, you could get both for less than any other similar quality orchestra out there.....


----------



## AllanH

Geomir said:


> As a very happy owner of EWHO Gold (both its total size and the main mic included is perfect for me), I am starting to be worried by reading these things.
> 
> I can't believe that I will wake up at 21th of January, open my projects and get a message: "_Sorry sir, your EWHO library doesn't exist anymore, you should pay us $400 to upgrade to the OPUS edition, or else all your projects will be unusable, and the money you spent on your EWHO Gold will be wasted. Please upgrade today or delete your Play 6 patches from all your projects_".
> 
> I suppose that will be a very bad move from EW, and so far this company has excellent support for me. So I hope those "legacy folders" will be still usable for all the owners of EWHO, who are completely broke because of the last Black Friday sales...



That's some wild speculation - hopefully it's meant to be funny.

Over the years I have found EW at times generous while at other times having nonsensical pricing. Based on a single off-the-cuff comment by Doug Rodgers made years prior, they provided a free copy of Hollywood Harp to owners of HO (this was many years ago). At the same time, upgrade pricing rarely makes sense - it's often cheaper to by a second license (at least for a while after release).

I am going to wait and see what "they do" for existing customers. I very much hope they offer a reasonable transition to Opus, as I would like an updated and consolidated version of Hollywood Orchestra.


----------



## dzilizzi

Didn't they charge $50 for the last update to Play 6? I got it free because I bought Diamond around that time and it was free with new purchases. I'd probably pay $50 for the orchestrator. 

The problem is, if they actually recorded new content, I can see charging something if you want to upgrade. But if it isn't a whole new recorded orchestra, but just parts, I don't want to pay a whole lot. 

I'm not in a hurry. If they don't give a good price to upgrade, I can wait a year or two for a 60% off sale.... if it sounds good.


----------



## Toecutter

AllanH said:


> At the same time, upgrade pricing rarely makes sense - it's often cheaper to by a second license (at least for a while after release).


This! Spaces 2 upgrade price is insulting. $184 to upgrade from Spaces 1 or you can buy Spaces 2 for $159, sometimes even cheaper depending on the vendor or if there's a flash sale going on. EW support says there's one specific time of the year where they offer upgrade discounts but they can't tell exactly when and tell me to subscribe to the newsletter. I am subscribed for years and never received an email about it.


----------



## pmcrockett

Has the thought crossed anyone else's mind that they may not even want to upgrade? There have been multiple other high-profile upgrades from other companies (e.g. Albion One and Anthology Strings) that many people regard as inferior to the original libraries. Hopefully won't be the case with Opus, but there's always that possibility.


----------



## I like music

pmcrockett said:


> Has the thought crossed anyone else's mind that they may not even want to upgrade? There have been multiple other high-profile upgrades from other companies (e.g. Albion One and Anthology Strings) that many people regard as inferior to the original libraries. Hopefully won't be the case with Opus, but there's always that possibility.


Between this, and someone saying "imagine if csw isn't suddenly going to turn you into the best composer in the world" my Christmas is ruined.


----------



## Geomir

kmaster said:


> What?


People were speculating that the old version will be left behind, not usable anymore unless you upgrade, and I strongly believe this is impossible to happen. And I used an extreme example why this is impossible to happen!


----------



## Geomir

AllanH said:


> That's some wild speculation - hopefully it's meant to be funny.
> 
> Over the years I have found EW at times generous while at other times having nonsensical pricing. Based on a single off-the-cuff comment by Doug Rodgers made years prior, they provided a free copy of Hollywood Harp to owners of HO (this was many years ago). At the same time, upgrade pricing rarely makes sense - it's often cheaper to by a second license (at least for a while after release).
> 
> I am going to wait and see what "they do" for existing customers. I very much hope they offer a reasonable transition to Opus, as I would like an updated and consolidated version of Hollywood Orchestra.


It was just an extreme example! My experience with EW customer support is excellent. I hope that users of EWHO can still use it after the OPUS version, until they find the right time (and money!) to upgrade.


----------



## Tremendouz

Geomir said:


> People were speculating that the old version will be left behind, not usable anymore unless you upgrade, and I strongly believe this is impossible to happen. And I used an extreme example why this is impossible to happen!


I don't think anyone suggested anything like that, only that it wouldn't be updated anymore which would mean you could keep using it as usual... Well, unless you're on Mac and an update breaks something.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Markrs said:


> I was hoping that was the case! Makes it hard to move off that to CC Plus



I’m in the same boat, have been paying $15 per month for CCx for a few years. Is it worth going to $40 per month for Plus? For me, no. I’d rather buy Opus outright if I need the extra mic’s.


----------



## Geomir

Tremendouz said:


> I don't think anyone suggested anything like that, only that it wouldn't be updated anymore which would mean you could keep using it as usual... Well, unless you're on Mac and an update breaks something.


PC user here!


----------



## Tremendouz

Geomir said:


> PC user here!


Same. I keep seeing these "Catalina/Big Sur problem" threads everywhere and here I am running plugins in Reaper that came out when I was in preschool.

But that's another topic. Anyway, I'm just hoping that when porting HO to the OPUS engine they'll polish the old content so that people who for some reason don't want/need hundreds of gigabytes of new recordings will also benefit from the new engine.


----------



## Casiquire

RogiervG said:


> not always true. depends on how many articulations and instruments loaded. with 32gb you get far too. and then there is always the track freeze option


Yeah people here highly overestimate necessary specs. Almost like there's a bunch of gear junkies in here


----------



## Geomir

Tremendouz said:


> Same. I keep seeing these "Catalina/Big Sur problem" threads everywhere and here I am running plugins in Reaper that came out when I was in preschool.
> 
> But that's another topic. Anyway, I'm just hoping that when porting HO to the OPUS engine they'll polish the old content so that people who for some reason don't want/need hundreds of gigabytes of new recordings will also benefit from the new engine.


Exactly my thoughts! I really hope they offer some "basic polish" to the owners of EWHO that will not be able to upgrade immediately!  

Another (a little off topic maybe?) question is that I keep reading "_Our brand new OPUS software engine replaces PLAY and has been years in development_".

The way it's written, it seems this will not be exclusive for EWHO. I mean, I own EW Ra, EW Silk, EWQL Symphonic Orchestra and Choirs, will these libraries be upgraded to the new Sampler / Player?

Does anyone have any info about it?


----------



## José Herring

Geomir said:


> As a very happy owner of EWHO Gold (both its total size and the main mic included is perfect for me), I am starting to be worried by reading these things.
> 
> I can't believe that I will wake up at 21th of January, open my projects and get a message: "_Sorry sir, your EWHO library doesn't exist anymore, you should pay us $400 to upgrade to the OPUS edition, or else all your projects will be unusable, and the money you spent on your EWHO Gold will be wasted. Please upgrade today or delete your Play 6 patches from all your projects_".
> 
> I suppose that will be a very bad move from EW, and so far this company has excellent support for me. So I hope those "legacy folders" will be still usable for all the owners of EWHO, who are completely broke because of the last Black Friday sales...


Nah, i used Play 3 for 10 years. Play 6 will continue to work until you decide to upgrade. Maybe composer cloud people will suffer that fate.


----------



## Bluemount Score

hbjdk said:


> I agree, just keep in mind that Diamond requires a minimum of 64 GB ram, plus ideally multiple SSDs to run properly. Otherwise it’s better to get Gold, I think.


whoopsie, bought Diamond with just 32GB RAM in my PC


----------



## Tremendouz

Bluemount Score said:


> whoopsie, bought Diamond with just 32GB RAM in my PC


I'm sure it'll be fine if you use only one mic position and avoid the most RAM-hungry patches. You probably won't need a lot of the articulations in most compositions either.

32GB can do plenty if you're clever with purge (although I heard Play isn't as good as Kontakt regarding purging)


----------



## Bluemount Score

Tremendouz said:


> I'm sure it'll be fine if you use only one mic position and avoid the most RAM-hungry patches. You probably won't need a lot of the articulations in most compositions either.
> 
> 32GB can do plenty if you're clever with purge (although I heard Play isn't as good as Kontakt regarding purging)


Didn't even know there at at least is a purge function! Can't properly try the library out before my new SSD arrives next week, so I can download strings and winds.


----------



## Tremendouz

Bluemount Score said:


> Didn't even know there at at least is a purge function! Can't properly try the library out before my new SSD arrives next week, so I can download strings and winds.


Same... Library itself: €105. 1TB NVMe SSD to run it: €150


----------



## jamieboo

I've been using Diamond with only 32GB RAM for years now, and my template is designed for full blooded symphonic stuff. I only use one mic position though. And even then my 32GB is pretty much entirely used!
But it is possible.


----------



## Bluemount Score

jamieboo said:


> I've been using Diamond with only 32GB RAM for years now, and my template is designed for full blooded symphonic stuff. I only use one mic position though. And even then my 32GB is pretty much entirely used!
> But it is possible.


Maybe HOOPUS will introduce a better solution to this for us, well, depending on if we do the upgrade.


Tremendouz said:


> Same... Library itself: €105. 1TB NVMe SSD to run it: €150


Yea haha realized too late that it's not all about sample prices, there is also a mentionable hardware and time factor involved


----------



## ShidoStrife

Bluemount Score said:


> Didn't even know there at at least is a purge function! Can't properly try the library out before my new SSD arrives next week, so I can download strings and winds.


You can purge but it doesn't load as you play like kontakt. If you want to play new note after purging, you have to re-load all samples and re-purge.


----------



## Tremendouz

ShidoStrife said:


> You can purge but it doesn't load as you play like kontakt. If you want to play new note after purging, you have to re-load all samples and re-purge.


What the hell? I'm sorry but that's pretty much useless feature then.

The new OPUS engine had better address this


----------



## Casiquire

Nah we're overestimating specs again. I am pretty comfortable using the powerful bow change legato with a couple mic positions and still have room for some Berlin which is really heavy too. 32 is great


----------



## janila

EW ditching Kontakt for their own player raised a lot of concern back in the day. PLAY was supposed to be the superior player with more advanced feature set but now a decade later we can see how that turned out. The useless purge and slow loading times mean that any library in PLAY at any discount costs more to run than a comparable Kontakt library at full price. Diamond at $1?? isn’t the best value in orchestral libraries but the worst. I have one slave dedicated to PLAY and it could do so much more if the libraries were in Kontakt. After filling it I haven’t bought more PLAY libraries and haven’t paid EW a dime in years. Their loss. I don’t think HOOPUS is going to change that because of EW’s abysmal upgrade pricing. HOOPUS is what HO and PLAY should have been in the first place and therefore the upgrade shouldn’t be free, they should be paying us for the lost years stuck with an unfinished product.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

janila said:


> EW ditching Kontakt for their own player raised a lot of concern back in the day. PLAY was supposed to be the superior player with more advanced feature set but now a decade later we can see how that turned out. The useless purge and slow loading times mean that any library in PLAY at any discount costs more to run than a comparable Kontakt library at full price. Diamond at $1?? isn’t the best value in orchestral libraries but the worst. I have one slave dedicated to PLAY and it could do so much more if the libraries were in Kontakt. After filling it I haven’t bought more PLAY libraries and haven’t paid EW a dime in years. Their loss. I don’t think HOOPUS is going to change that because of EW’s abysmal upgrade pricing. HOOPUS is what HO and PLAY should have been in the first place and therefore the upgrade shouldn’t be free, they should be paying us for the lost years stuck with an unfinished product.


Tit for tat, I guess. I’ve been using Play since day one (and Intakt prior), and still love it to this day. My bread and butter libraries, and I enjoy using Play in my workflow.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Casiquire said:


> Nah we're overestimating specs again. I am pretty comfortable using the powerful bow change legato with a couple mic positions and still have room for some Berlin which is really heavy too. 32 is great



But are you using a full orchestral template, or just a few patches?


----------



## lettucehat

Casiquire said:


> It IS super cheap!



It’s a great deal, but I own brass silver and know I already have 90% of what I want out of HB. So like many, it’s either super cheap upgrade or nothing for me. The difference between the gold/diamond strings however... different story.


----------



## Casiquire

Jeremy Spencer said:


> But are you using a full orchestral template, or just a few patches?


Pretty full. Those powerful patches are only about a gig or gig and a half per microphone, and the shorts are almost nothing.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Casiquire said:


> Pretty full. Those powerful patches are only about a gig or gig and a half per microphone, and the shorts are almost nothing.


Cool, thanks. Good to know!


----------



## gst98

janila said:


> EW ditching Kontakt for their own player raised a lot of concern back in the day. PLAY was supposed to be the superior player with more advanced feature set but now a decade later we can see how that turned out. The useless purge and slow loading times mean that any library in PLAY at any discount costs more to run than a comparable Kontakt library at full price. Diamond at $1?? isn’t the best value in orchestral libraries but the worst. I have one slave dedicated to PLAY and it could do so much more if the libraries were in Kontakt. After filling it I haven’t bought more PLAY libraries and haven’t paid EW a dime in years. Their loss. I don’t think HOOPUS is going to change that because of EW’s abysmal upgrade pricing. HOOPUS is what HO and PLAY should have been in the first place and therefore the upgrade shouldn’t be free, they should be paying us for the lost years stuck with an unfinished product.




No one else has added the feature to load samples from a purged instance since kontakt. But Play can absolutely 100% stream from disk in real time. The 10gb patches load about 2 or 3gb into RAM, for instance, and the rest is streamed. 

There is no way to compare library like to like from Play to Kontakt of course, but I do not find Play takes any longer to load a patch than kontakt. Which is remarkable given that play patches can have anywhere from 2x to more than 10x as many samples as any other developer. Obviously loading more samples takes longer. And if you have more voices then you’re going to use more cpu. What were you expecting? A more deeply sampled instrument that uses less resources? But you also seem to think EW should be paying YOU money so what do I know.

Yes upgrades aren’t great we can agree on that, but buying (in the permanent sale) the gold and then buying diamond still costs less than buying Berlin brass on 50% or Symphonic Strings in the current sale. Some people just bought diamond for the cost of a single SINE instrument.

We recently learnt that they have hired a couple of ex-Kontakt designers presumably to help with these kind of things.


----------



## pmcrockett

gst98 said:


> No one else has added the feature to load samples from a purged instance since kontakt..


SINE can do it.


----------



## gst98

pmcrockett said:


> SINE can do it.



Last time I tested if you purge an articulation and then play it, it loads all samples of that articulation back in. Unless it has changed recently.

So in that sense it doesn’t do what kontakt does, and is very similar to EW. In fact Play can actually get rid of more specific samples than SINE can. It just won’t load them in when you play them. I think the synchron player acts similarly to SINE.


----------



## Toecutter

gst98 said:


> Last time I tested if you purge an articulation and then play it, it loads all samples of that articulation back in. Unless it has changed recently.


It's the same  Since EW hired the big names from Kontakt, Cubase and Studio One, I'm hopeful that Opus will do it right. If not, what a wasted opportunity.


----------



## pmcrockett

gst98 said:


> Last time I tested if you purge an articulation and then play it, it loads all samples of that articulation back in. Unless it has changed recently.
> 
> So in that sense it doesn’t do what kontakt does, and is very similar to EW. In fact Play can actually get rid of more specific samples than SINE can. It just won’t load them in when you play them. I think the synchron player acts similarly to SINE.


Oops, I haven't used SINE deeply enough to have realized that. Definitely dampens my enthusiasm for SINE as a platform.


----------



## Jose7822

gst98 said:


> No one else has added the feature to load samples from a purged instance since kontakt. But Play can absolutely 100% stream from disk in real time. The 10gb patches load about 2 or 3gb into RAM, for instance, and the rest is streamed.
> 
> There is no way to compare library like to like from Play to Kontakt of course, but I do not find Play takes any longer to load a patch than kontakt. Which is remarkable given that play patches can have anywhere from 2x to more than 10x as many samples as any other developer. Obviously loading more samples takes longer. And if you have more voices then you’re going to use more cpu. What were you expecting? A more deeply sampled instrument that uses less resources? But you also seem to think EW should be paying YOU money so what do I know.
> 
> Yes upgrades aren’t great we can agree on that, but buying (in the permanent sale) the gold and then buying diamond still costs less than buying Berlin brass on 50% or Symphonic Strings in the current sale. Some people just bought diamond for the cost of a single SINE instrument.
> 
> We recently learnt that they have hired a couple of ex-Kontakt designers presumably to help with these kind of things.



So true!

People like to compare apples to oranges. Obviously a bigger patch will take longer to load. But they don’t pay attention at how many gigs of RAM are being loaded into each player. All they see is the time it takes to load them -_-.

As for the update price, I understand this argument a bit better (especially when it’s a brand new product release, since it would otherwise mean waiting until the product is on sale to get a better deal than the upgrade price). I get that. But, like you said, the people complaining about HO Diamond‘s current price are the same ones buying single orchestral sections for the same price (if not more) than the entire HO Diamond. Who cares if it’s cheaper to buy the whole thing compared to the upgrade price? You’re still getting an entire orchestral library, that sounds amazing, for peanuts.


----------



## Tremendouz

Jose7822 said:


> Who cares if it’s cheaper to buy the whole thing compared to the upgrade price?


I do. I don't necessarily expect big savings but having the upgrade price higher than the sale price of a new license for a product is flat out punishing existing owners if the upgrade never goes on sale


----------



## dzilizzi

Jose7822 said:


> So true!
> 
> People like to compare apples to oranges. Obviously a bigger patch will take longer to load. But they don’t pay attention at how many gigs of RAM are being loaded into each player. All they see is the time it takes to load them -_-.
> 
> As for the update price, I understand this argument a bit better (especially when it’s a brand new product release, since it would otherwise mean waiting until the product is on sale to get a better deal than the upgrade price). I get that. But, like you said, the people complaining about HO Diamond‘s current price are the same ones buying single orchestral sections for the same price (if not more) than the entire HO Diamond. Who cares if it’s cheaper to buy the whole thing compared to the upgrade price? You’re still getting an entire orchestral library, that sounds amazing, for peanuts.


It's not a complaint about the current price. It is just weird that you can buy the full library for less than the upgrade. The upgrade should, at minimum, drop to the sale price every time the library goes on sale. That would at least make sense. They are the only developer that actively advertises a higher price for upgrades. Who does that?


----------



## gst98

Toecutter said:


> It's the same  Since EW hired the big names from Kontakt, Cubase and Studio One, I'm hopeful that Opus will do it right. If not, what a wasted opportunity.



Yes I hope so. I would think that they hired these specific people because they want their knowledge of Kontakt and that they have at least something planned to improve Play. I'm not sure what is so hard about loading samples in from disk on request but no one else has been able to do it since Kontakt.




Jose7822 said:


> As for the update price, I understand this argument a bit better (especially when it’s a brand new product release, since it would otherwise mean waiting until the product is on sale to get a better deal than the upgrade price). I get that. But, like you said, the people complaining about HO Diamond‘s current price are the same ones buying single orchestral sections for the same price (if not more) than the entire HO Diamond. Who cares if it’s cheaper to buy the whole thing compared to the upgrade price? You’re still getting an entire orchestral library, that sounds amazing, for peanuts.





dzilizzi said:


> It's not a complaint about the current price. It is just weird that you can buy the full library for less than the upgrade. The upgrade should, at minimum, drop to the sale price every time the library goes on sale. That would at least make sense. They are the only developer that actively advertises a higher price for upgrades. Who does that?



Yeah it is weird and I think I would care more if this was spitfire or OT and they were still charging lots of money for libraries, but I think becuase EW have such reasonable prices in sales it doesn't bother me. On principle I can see how it is annoying.

One thing to remember is that If you upgrade from gold to diamond you have to all the samples again so they might be pricing based off of server costs.


----------



## Tremendouz

gst98 said:


> I'm not sure what is so hard about loading samples in from disk on request but no one else has been able to do it since Kontakt.


I might be totally wrong but it feels like optimization is an afterthought for a lot of music software since "sure everyone has big SSDs, 64GB RAM and multiple slave machines anyway, right?"


----------



## SupremeFist

Tremendouz said:


> I might be totally wrong but it feels like optimization is an afterthought for a lot of music software since "sure everyone has big SSDs, 64GB RAM and multiple slave machines anyway, right?"


I'm sure this is true and to extent it is fair enough. RAM and storage are cheap, and customers should expect the best stuff to be the most demanding on those commodities.


----------



## gst98

Tremendouz said:


> I might be totally wrong but it feels like optimization is an afterthought for a lot of music software since "sure everyone has big SSDs, 64GB RAM and multiple slave machines anyway, right?"



It's definitely a possiblilty, but one of the main reasons SINE was made (other than anti piracy) was that what ever tricks they were trying to do with CAPSULE, really wasn't working with Kontakt. It used so many resources (RAM and CPU, but also made save files enourmous for some reason), but SINE was designed with this in mind and is way more efficient. 

I think the biggest problem is people don't appreciate the technical side of things enough. I just heard a story about how Avid tried to save costs on the Sibelius team and they fired all the London devs and move it to Ukraine. 3 years later they had to shut it down because they didn't have the expertise needed and now are in Canada.

Making the samples load smoothly might be really hard part of the sample players. In general the things musicians care about (low latency, fast loading, effiency) are really hard aspects and will need lots of time put into them. The salaries of those who can do this are going to expensive too. So each company will be making a list and thinking about how much people care about streaming from disk, and how much dev time it will take the cost of the dev required to do that and it doesn't make financial sense to them. 

It is really good to see that OT have clearly spent a lot of money on things that will improve are experince using these tools by investing in making a dedicated audio codec for SINE. Also its clear to me that the VSL guys really spent a lot of money on the Synchron play and VEP to get them to run so well. Maybe this is a sign the EW are starting to care about it too


----------



## dzilizzi

I actually think a lot of these developers are moving away from Kontakt because it doesn't do things like multiple mics well. This came up with Embertone's Walker and the extra mics for SSO. You have to load multiple instances because there is a max limit on the samples that can be loaded. At least this is what I understood. This means with their own player, they can potentially have more dynamics, RR's and mic positions than Kontakt will allow. Probably comes up more in orchestral instruments than things like guitars. 


I do like having all the extra mic options I'm getting in Sine and Spitfire player. And probably Play - I don't have any of the Kontakt libraries so I'm only guessing it was an issue for them as well. There are a lot of mic options in some of these libraries.


----------



## Dave Connor

Tremendouz said:


> I'm sure it'll be fine if you use only one mic position and avoid the most RAM-hungry patches. You probably won't need a lot of the articulations in most compositions either.
> 
> 32GB can do plenty if you're clever with purge (although I heard Play isn't as good as Kontakt regarding purging)


How do you purge in Play? That would be handy.


----------



## Tremendouz

Dave Connor said:


> How do you purge in Play? That would be handy.


I haven't used play yet but I've done a little bit of research.

There's a purge option somewhere in the main (?) drop-down menu which apparently purges all samples that haven't been triggered at all. So if I'm not mistaken it's similar to the "update sample pool" function in Kontakt, except that it can't load more samples afterwards on demand. For that purpose, you need to load all samples and then use purge again.

Basically if you want to add even one more note that wasn't used elsewhere, you need to repeat this process each time.


----------



## gst98

Tremendouz said:


> I haven't used play yet but I've done a little bit of research.
> 
> There's a purge option somewhere in the main (?) drop-down menu which apparently purges all samples that haven't been triggered at all. So if I'm not mistaken it's similar to the "update sample pool" function in Kontakt, except that it can't load more samples afterwards on demand. For that purpose, you need to load all samples and then use purge again.
> 
> Basically if you want to add even one more note that wasn't used elsewhere, you need to repeat this process each time.



Yep that’s right. By default Play streams from disk too, depending on the speed of your SSD or HD. You can change it in settings. So it might load 1gb into RAM even though the patch is 5gb. However once the project gets a bit big I find that this becomes the bottleneck and so I have to deactivate streaming.


----------



## Jose7822

dzilizzi said:


> It's not a complaint about the current price. It is just weird that you can buy the full library for less than the upgrade. The upgrade should, at minimum, drop to the sale price every time the library goes on sale. That would at least make sense. They are the only developer that actively advertises a higher price for upgrades. Who does that?



This makes no sense to me. You’re saying that you would be ok with it if the upgrade price was the same as the new license price. But if they are the same price, then who cares if what you’re buying is a new license or an upgrade? They’re the same price!!

Given how low EW sells their libraries (all year round really), especially when compared to products from the competition, I find it silly to be complaining about this. You get a FULL Orchestra (well recorded and with a bunch of articulations) for the same price, if not less, than a single orchestral section from another company. They sell them so low, that giving you a lower upgrade price for the upgrade would be ridiculous. That’s the way I see it. But that’s me, I guess.


----------



## Tremendouz

Jose7822 said:


> But if they are the same price, then who cares if what you’re buying is a new license or an upgrade? They’re the same price!!


I guess that's why the other person said the upgrade should "at minimum" drop to the sale price, implying less than the sale price would be preferred since it's an upgrade after all, not the full product.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jose7822 said:


> This makes no sense to me. You’re saying that you would be ok with it if the upgrade price was the same as the new license price. But if they are the same price, then who cares if what you’re buying is a new license or an upgrade? They’re the same price!!
> 
> Given how low EW sells their libraries (all year round really), especially when compared to products from the competition, I find it silly to be complaining about this. You get a FULL Orchestra (well recorded and with a bunch of articulations) for the same price, if not less, than a single orchestral section from another company. They sell them so low, that giving you a lower upgrade price for the upgrade would be ridiculous. That’s the way I see it. But that’s me, I guess.


I'm not okay with it. I'm just saying that from a business perspective, it wouldn't look as bad if the upgrade price at least dropped to the same price as the sales price when the sales price is lower. It shouldn't be hard to program it to do that. Then people can't complain the upgrade price is more than the regular price. The sales price for what you get is very reasonable. 

Truthfully, I paid for a new version because it was cheaper than upgrading. I'm not complaining. it was a great price and I have a laptop version (Gold) and a studio version (Diamond)


----------



## Jose7822

Tremendouz said:


> I guess that's why the other person said the upgrade should "at minimum" drop to the sale price, implying less than the sale price would be preferred since it's an upgrade after all, not the full product.



I got what he said, and I even covered that I feel the same even if he said “at minimum”. Quoting myself here:

_“They sell them so low, that giving you a lower upgrade price for the upgrade would be ridiculous.”_

*HO is DIRT CHEAP compared to a SINGLE Orchestral section library of pretty much ANY competitor.*

Hope that brings the point home. Otherwise I have nothing else to add.


----------



## lettucehat

If EW come out and say "upgrades from gold/silver products will never be any cheaper than these new prices on diamond editions" then I'll respect that and plan accordingly. I think for those of us who have gold/silver products, these current, really low prices have been in place long enough for us to know that upgrading isn't that urgent. I got diamond Hollywood Strings for like ~$130 and it's outstanding value. But for the time being it's rational to wait and see if they'll allow even lower upgrade prices, even if it's just for a brief window.


----------



## Jose7822

lettucehat said:


> If EW come out and say "upgrades from gold/silver products will never be any cheaper than these new prices on diamond editions" then I'll respect that and plan accordingly. I think for those of us who have gold/silver products, these current, really low prices have been in place long enough for us to know that upgrading isn't that urgent. I got diamond Hollywood Strings for like ~$130 and it's outstanding value. But for the time being it's rational to wait and see if they'll allow even lower upgrade prices, even if it's just for a brief window.



Of course!! That makes total sense.


----------



## Ivan Duch

Hi everyone! 

I'm a EW CC user but have been considering purchasing HWO Diamond and quiting Composer Cloud since it's the main reason I subscribed to it. 

EW's marketing seems to suggest it's a good idea to purchase Diamond now, while on sale. Has there been any word about Opus being a free or paid upgrade to Diamond users? 

What do you guys suggest I do? Waiting until Opus is released before purchasing HWO or buying it before Jan 4th (the sale is supposed the end then)


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Ivan Duch said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I'm a EW CC user but have been considering purchasing HWO Diamond and quiting Composer Cloud since it's the main reason I subscribed to it.
> 
> EW's marketing seems to suggest it's a good idea to purchase Diamond now, while on sale. Has there been any word about Opus being a free or paid upgrade to Diamond users?
> 
> What do you guys suggest I do? Waiting until Opus is released before purchasing HWO or buying it before Jan 4th (the sale is supposed the end then)


It won't be free, but beyond that, nobody knows anything more on what the upgrade path will look like or if it is better to wait or not.


----------



## rmak

Ivan Duch said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I'm a EW CC user but have been considering purchasing HWO Diamond and quiting Composer Cloud since it's the main reason I subscribed to it.
> 
> EW's marketing seems to suggest it's a good idea to purchase Diamond now, while on sale. Has there been any word about Opus being a free or paid upgrade to Diamond users?
> 
> What do you guys suggest I do? Waiting until Opus is released before purchasing HWO or buying it before Jan 4th (the sale is supposed the end then)


I am being conservative and waiting =)


----------



## Ivan Duch

Yep, I think I'll do the same. Thanks guys!


----------



## Ivan Duch

I contacted their support, and they told me that it would most likely be a paid upgrade and that they'll release all the info on January 21.


----------



## Zamenhof

Ivan Duch said:


> I contacted their support, and they told me that it would most likely be a paid upgrade and that they'll release all the info on January 21.


I have chosen to upgrade from Gold to Diamond since EW “strongly advise” us to do so. I’m a bit annoyed that they won’t disclose whether their suggestion is due to the features of Opus (moods) or due to the price. But I took the chance and don’t expect a big reward on January 21. If the upgrade price turns out to be disappointing, at least I can keep using Diamond which is awesome.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

The upgrade to opus engine version is likely to be free but to the opus edition paid. I have both gold and diamond so I can decide which one to upgrade depending if the upgrade cost is an arm and a leg or just an arm.


----------



## Tremendouz

I might be crazy buy I'm lowkey afraid it'll be something like:

HOOPUS Diamond: $999 (cause sure it can't be cheaper than the current MSRP of $932)

Generous upgrade offer: $799 (20% off! Amazing!)

Then a year later a new standalone license is back to 60% off ($399) while the upgrade never goes on sale and stays at $799

I hope I'll be very wrong but... 😄


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

Tremendouz said:


> Then a year later a new standalone license is back to 60% off ($399)


I did not watch EastWest very closely in the past - how long does it usually take until they offer major discounts for new releases?


----------



## Markrs

Laurin Lenschow said:


> I did not watch EastWest very closely in the past - how long does it usually take until they offer major discounts for new releases?


Holloywood backup singers didn't take very long to get a 60% discount, I think it might have even been in the year of it's release, but someone more knowledgable might be able to correct me.


----------



## ShidoStrife

Tremendouz said:


> I might be crazy buy I'm lowkey afraid it'll be something like:
> 
> HOOPUS Diamond: $999 (cause sure it can't be cheaper than the current MSRP of $932)
> 
> Generous upgrade offer: $799 (20% off! Amazing!)
> 
> Then a year later a new standalone license is back to 60% off ($399) while the upgrade never goes on sale and stays at $799
> 
> I hope I'll be very wrong but... 😄


Actually since opus will include the solo instruments as well, the base MSRP should be the orchestra+solo bundle ($1465). And yeah, I believe your scenario would be the case. I'd love to be proven wrong.


----------



## Tremendouz

ShidoStrife said:


> Actually since opus will include the solo instruments as well, the base MSRP should be the orchestra+solo bundle ($1465). And yeah, I believe your scenario would be the case. I'd love to be proven wrong.


Oh, I wasn't aware of that. In that case it'll probably be way out of my budget since I'm not interested in those (already have solo strings and harp).

I just hope they'll improve the woodwinds when porting the current edition to the new engine or I won't even bother installing them (CSW, here I come)


----------



## Markrs

ShidoStrife said:


> Actually since opus will include the solo instruments as well, the base MSRP should be the orchestra+solo bundle ($1465). And yeah, I believe your scenario would be the case. I'd love to be proven wrong.


I agree, if it is MSRP it will be pricey, that also helps push people to the subscription model (which in truth I do think is a good deal for all you get!)  I'm sure they will offer some type of upgrade offer, but this isn't a strong area for EastWest so I doubt it will be generous. I suspect I will just wait for the 60% off deal, even if it takes a year or two.


----------



## lettucehat

Tremendouz said:


> I might be crazy buy I'm lowkey afraid it'll be something like:
> 
> HOOPUS Diamond: $999 (cause sure it can't be cheaper than the current MSRP of $932)
> 
> Generous upgrade offer: $799 (20% off! Amazing!)
> 
> Then a year later a new standalone license is back to 60% off ($399) while the upgrade never goes on sale and stays at $799
> 
> I hope I'll be very wrong but... 😄


Yeah that would be completely outrageous, especially not letting people upgrade strings/brass/winds/perc separately. I realize they're trying to either herd everyone into the subscription or upsell them to the whole orchestra, but let's not forget these are older libraries that are badly in need of a makeover in order to remain appealing to what is increasingly their target audience (hobbyists and beginners). I say that as a big fan of some of their stuff, like HS which was and still is an outstanding professional tool. But this update isn't for those of us who know the libraries and already use them without trouble. No one should have to pay a premium for updated and streamlined usability, they should be doing this just to stay competitive with the existing content (which is solid as-is). I can't imagine it's going to be so groundbreaking that it doubles the price of the libraries. I am more optimistic that this is their approach so not necessarily complaining... yet!


----------



## RogiervG

we'll see. maybe the price is reasonable for the upgrade. because its merely an update, technically not a new library


----------



## Russell Anderson

RogiervG said:


> because its merely an update, technically not a new library


You are referring to the player, or the samples?


----------



## SupremeFist

I very much doubt there will be a free option to just upgrade existing HO to the Opus player without buying into all the new instruments and programming. The change from Kontakt to Play was not free either.


----------



## RogiervG

Russell Anderson said:


> You are referring to the player, or the samples?


The samples/patches mostly. 
The player should be free (like it is now too), or very cheap (if it has a PRO version too that is. Mind you, this PRO player should be optional, not forced.).


----------



## RogiervG

SupremeFist said:


> I very much doubt there will be a free option to just upgrade existing HO to the Opus player without buying into all the new instruments and programming. The change from Kontakt to Play was not free either.


it sure will cost money.. but the amount, should be reasonable: aka not expensive.


----------



## Russell Anderson

SupremeFist said:


> I very much doubt there will be a free option to just upgrade existing HO to the Opus player without buying into all the new instruments and programming. The change from Kontakt to Play was not free either.





RogiervG said:


> The samples/patches mostly.
> The player should be free, or very cheap (if it has a PRO version too that is. Mind you, this PRO player should be optional, not forced.).


I am not feeling confident that I should be giving EastWest my money, then. I will continue saving for CSS probably (and investing in some cryptocurrency, and... idk, farm animals? People say “happy new year”, I say “ https://www.forbes.com/sites/investor/2020/06/26/inflation-baked-in-as-us-money-supply-explodes/amp/ “


----------



## Zero&One

RogiervG said:


> it sure will cost money.. but the amount, should be reasonable: aka not expensive.


All I've found was their comment, clear as mud. The 'significantly' part is interesting.

"All other pricing will be announced at a later date for Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition and Hollywood Orchestrator purchases and upgrades, however the cost will be significantly higher than today's offer, so DON’T MISS OUT!"


----------



## RogiervG

Zero&One said:


> All I've found was their comment, clear as mud. The 'significantly' part is interesting.
> 
> "All other pricing will be announced at a later date for Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition and Hollywood Orchestrator purchases and upgrades, however the cost will be significantly higher than today's offer, so DON’T MISS OUT!"


yes, that could mean for the "not upgrade" pricing.. without the discounts they now have. (even 200 bucks higher than current price, including sale discount can be seen as significantly)

I see it as luring people into buying HWO during their sales (60% off on their site)
It's a martketing strategy, "fear of missing out" tactics mostly i think.

_They could even, if they play not nicely: actually make the non upgrade package very expensive , without discounts, for a few months, to make people feel: "Damn i should have invested in HWO when i could. Now i need to pay hundreds more to get it."(and EW making the "old" HWO unavailable anymore ofcourse). __People who have HWO (diamond), will get rewarded ofcourse with a cheap upgrade._
_After a few months a big sale is presented again, making it affordable for the masses that could not upgrade._

Note: sales are very lucrative, since more people buy into it. resulting in huge profits.


----------



## Zero&One

Either way, they better get their skates on!


----------



## RogiervG

Zero&One said:


> Either way, they better get their skates on!


ooops.. depending on the amount of recordings to do: it's possible to do it in a few weeks (including editing).. but it will be a close call.


----------



## jamieboo

RogiervG said:


> ooops.. depending on the amount of recordings to do: it's possible to do it in a few weeks (including editing).. but it will be a close call.


I didn't think there was going to be new recordings in Percussion - so perhaps this should not be looked at as an alarming last minute situation!
There's new string recordings and sections for brass and woodwinds, but apart from that I think most of the new goodness is programming and stuff.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

I emailed the support at EastWest to hopefully learn something new about HOOPUS. Here is what I got:

Questions:
"1. Will owners of Hollywood Orchestra Gold/Diamond Edition that do not buy the upgrade to HO Opus Edition be able to use the Opus Engine or will they have to stick with Play?
2. Will the change from Play to the Opus Engine require a redownload of the library?
3. Will there be an introductory offer for HO Opus Edition?
4. Will the upgrade path from HO Diamond to Opus Edition ever be discounted (especially again after any kind of introductory offer)?
5. Will it have a significant impact on the upgrade price if I own HO Diamond Edition and the Soloists before upgrading instead of just owning HO Diamond Edition? (by which I mean will the additional 200 Dollars I would have to spend in order to get HO Diamond + Soloists make the upgrade to HO Opus 200 Dollars cheaper?)

I do not expect you to be able/entitled to answer all of my questions, but I hope you can give me at least some insights in order to help me with my purchasing decision."


Answer:
"I'm not quite able to answer all questions, but I'll do my best with the info available at the moment. Please note that a few answers are based on past releases.

1. Opus engine will probably be available to you.
2. No. The libraries do not need to be redownloaded.

3-5: We're not able to confirm any upgrade path information at this time. Any additional product information, including pricing, upgrade paths, features and audio demos will all be available the closer we are to Opus' release date of January 21. We have upgrade sales in February / March, though new libraries usually only go on sale 1-2 years after their release."


----------



## lukevaljean

SupremeFist said:


> I very much doubt there will be a free option to just upgrade existing HO to the Opus player without buying into all the new instruments and programming. The change from Kontakt to Play was not free either.


how much was the update?


----------



## AndyP

I was lucky that at some point I got the upgrade from gold to diamond very cheap.
These cheap upgrades are probably very rare and only happen once in a blue moon. The upgrade was worth its price (I would also have paid more for it), Diamond is so much better.

For Opus and the Orchestrator I don't expect such a good price. What I don't understand yet is if the Orchestrator will be a separate package, or if it comes with OPUS.


----------



## szczaw

AndyP said:


> What I don't understand yet is if the Orchestrator will be a separate package, or if it comes with OPUS.


EW customize their sample player for each library. You'll probably get both in the same package.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Laurin Lenschow said:


> 1. Opus engine will probably be available to you.


So if that's the case, I'm probably gonna skip learning how Play works until 21st this month


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Bluemount Score said:


> So if that's the case, I'm probably gonna skip learning how Play works until 21st this month


From their Facebook answers I got the impression that all libraries will be ported to opus engine, no idea if there are any new features or an additional cost to update them


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Bluemount Score said:


> So if that's the case, I'm probably gonna skip learning how Play works until 21st this month


I'm doing the exact same. I bought HO Silver last year, then Diamond start of this year, and was going through the manual bit by bit but had my eye on Opus (as well as a few other libraries) and ended up going for CC Plus a few weeks ago so put a hold on learning Play too deeply, or making templates, until I have got my hands on Opus and know what is happening in regards to other libraries. If it is a long way off until others are ported then I'll obviously learn it for them.


----------



## Bluemount Score

AceAudioHQ said:


> From their Facebook answers I got the impression that all libraries will be ported to opus engine, no idea if there are any new features or an additional cost to update them


Hopefully not! As someone said before, I believe the OPUS player itself should be free. Just wondering if all libraries will be ported to OPUS (do you even have to capslock that all the time?) at once, or if it will take a long time (looking at you, Orchestral Tools)


----------



## purple

Bluemount Score said:


> Hopefully not! As someone said before, I believe the OPUS player itself should be free. Just wondering if all libraries will be ported to OPUS (do you even have to capslock that all the time?) at once, or if it will take a long time (looking at you, Orchestral Tools)


Didn't someone say you don't have to re-download libraries further upthread? I think that implies backwards compatibility with the old sample format and so on.


----------



## Bluemount Score

purple said:


> Didn't someone say you don't have to re-download libraries further upthread? I think that implies backwards compatibility with the old sample format and so on.


Good point


----------



## timbit2006

Since it's all speculation still,
"Powerful new control features include Master key-switches where all articulations can be fully customized in the new OPUS articulation palette. You can also customize the sound of each instrument using the new MOODS feature. Classic Mood is the original Hollywood Orchestra sound. Soft Mood modifies the sound for slower, more emotional passages. Epic Mood does the opposite, giving you a sound perfectly suited for your next Action Adventure score. Each mood changes the settings and the look of the interface, which has been completely redesigned and stylized for Hollywood Strings, Hollywood Brass, Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds, Hollywood Orchestral Percussion, Hollywood Solo Violin, Hollywood Solo Cello, and Hollywood Harp. In addition, we simplified all instrument versions down to LITE and MAX, making Hollywood Strings in particular much easier to navigate. The MOODS feature requires the Diamond editions that include all mic positions mixed by Shawn Murphy, Gold users will not experience MOODS as they were designed. Accordingly, we strongly advise our Gold users to upgrade to Diamond, and ComposerCloud and ComposerCloud X subscribers to upgrade to ComposerCloud Plus while the 50% off offer is available through January 4. ComposerCloud X subscribers will also receive a credit for the remainder of their current year towards the upgrade price."
Would imply that existing owners of Diamond EW libraries will get the option to use the MOODS feature which is in the MAX version. Gold owners may get the upgrade but wont be able to use the MOODS feature and they will have LITE. They also strongly reccomend Gold users to upgrade to Diamond before OPUS comes out.
It for sure seems they may be doing away with the Diamond/Gold scheme and switching to MAX/LITE. If this is the case the wording here implies Diamond library owners may get the full upgrade to the OPUS versions. It could be possible they entirely plan on dropping their current marketing scheme of endless sales that keep on claiming to end but don't to psychologically pressure people into buying things(me twice) and going to a more traditional sales scheme.
Any thoughts?

quote taken from this page:





Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest


Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.




www.soundsonline.com





I also can't really find any information on the choirs, I really hope those get updated as SC, HBS and HC are three of the biggest PITA's to load on a regular basis.


----------



## ShidoStrife

I don't think MAX/LITE refers to the packages like Diamond/Gold. I believe they're referring to the patches. So rather than hundreds of patches named something like "Leg BC+Slur+Port LT 12", they will only have Violins 1 LITE and Violins 1 MAX. Both patches will be available to both gold and diamond users but gold will still only have access to 1 mic position.

MOODS, I believe are mic mix presets with some custom EQ/FX for each instrument. So naturally, "Gold users will not experience MOODS as they were designed". The buttons might still be there, and it might apply the EQ or whatever processing to the main mic, but it won't give the same effect compared to MOODS in diamond.

These are my speculations, of course. I might be completely off the mark here.


----------



## Kevinside

How much will this update cost...200gb+ new content...


----------



## Gerbil

I'd just be happy with the updated UI and the keyswitches!


----------



## muziksculp

Oh.. and they are re-naming their new sample player *OPUS,* instead of keeping it named *PLAY*. 

This change alone excites me


----------



## timbit2006

muziksculp said:


> Oh.. and they are re-naming their new sample player *OPUS,* instead of keeping it named *PLAY*.
> 
> This change alone excites me


I can't wait to OPUS with my eastwest




ShidoStrife said:


> I don't think MAX/LITE refers to the packages like Diamond/Gold. I believe they're referring to the patches. So rather than hundreds of patches named something like "Leg BC+Slur+Port LT 12", they will only have Violins 1 LITE and Violins 1 MAX. Both patches will be available to both gold and diamond users but gold will still only have access to 1 mic position.
> 
> MOODS, I believe are mic mix presets with some custom EQ/FX for each instrument. So naturally, "Gold users will not experience MOODS as they were designed". The buttons might still be there, and it might apply the EQ or whatever processing to the main mic, but it won't give the same effect compared to MOODS in diamond.
> 
> These are my speculations, of course. I might be completely off the mark here.


Hmm yeah you may be right, "Each mood changes the settings and the look of the interface". They also don't show the mic positions page or articulations page which are what the new features mainly are behind. There's definitely too many ways to interpret things... At least it's only 20 days away until we find out for sure.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

AndyP said:


> What I don't understand yet is if the Orchestrator will be a separate package, or if it comes with OPUS.


I think I read somewhere that the Orchestrator is going to be "an optional add-on", so you should be able to get HOOPUS without the Orchestrator.


----------



## RogiervG

Laurin Lenschow said:


> I think I read somewhere that the Orchestrator is going to be "an optional add-on", so you should be able to get HOOPUS without the Orchestrator.


indeed


----------



## Russell Anderson

Laurin Lenschow said:


> 3-5: We're not able to confirm any upgrade path information at this time. Any additional product information, including pricing, upgrade paths, features and audio demos will all be available the closer we are to Opus' release date of January 21. We have upgrade sales in February / March, though new libraries usually only go on sale 1-2 years after their release."


Thanks a whole bunch for asking them about this; I congratulate all who are making use of the Diamond sale and who subscribe to CC - I hope Opus is a great library. But I'm not going to play this silly marketing game. I would have considered buying in if they were more forthcoming about upgrade prices, and even if I was less inclined to buy Diamond - I would probably be less ticked if they simply had a higher sale price for Diamond and were simply more forthcoming about upgrade costs. It's their right, of course, but that's not a good look to me.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Hmmmm - What about in terms of features , apart from those listed on the only link we have? 

Do you think this will use , or manage articulations a lot better- maybe less articulations overall ?

How about things like Polyphonic legato, with divisi ! That would be great - Any one know anything about new features that will be added ?

Sorry if its already been discussed - This only caught my eye today, and only read last 3-4 pages so far.


----------



## RogiervG

I think it will be more logical in terms of articulations, i read something about only having LITE and MAX patch of strings 1, 2, violas, celli, double-basses, e.g.
That could be read as: one combo patch per section (key switch based), instead of many separate articulation patches. And that combo patch is available in a lite (less cpu intensive) and max version.

But it's unclear if that is indeed the case, their announcement text is not very clear in that regard.

They reworked the scripting and such for whole library, especially the woodwinds.
And did some extra recordings of sections:
2 tenor trombones, 18 1st violins, 3 bassoons, 3 clarinets, 3 flutes and did a re-recording of 2 trumpets


btw..
Polyphonic legato with divisi wouldn't make sense imho. (you still double the players per key press)
i'll try to explain:
Monophonic legato is more realistic: a section plays the same thing in reality (unison).
If it's split (because of divisi), the resulted smaller sections still play the same thing per split section. (e.g. all divisi string players of violin 1, still play unison as a divisi section)
In other words, the individual sections (divisi or not) play unison all the time, a.k.a. monophonic legato


----------



## rmak

timbit2006 said:


> Since it's all speculation still,
> "Powerful new control features include Master key-switches where all articulations can be fully customized in the new OPUS articulation palette. You can also customize the sound of each instrument using the new MOODS feature. Classic Mood is the original Hollywood Orchestra sound. Soft Mood modifies the sound for slower, more emotional passages. Epic Mood does the opposite, giving you a sound perfectly suited for your next Action Adventure score. Each mood changes the settings and the look of the interface, which has been completely redesigned and stylized for Hollywood Strings, Hollywood Brass, Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds, Hollywood Orchestral Percussion, Hollywood Solo Violin, Hollywood Solo Cello, and Hollywood Harp. In addition, we simplified all instrument versions down to LITE and MAX, making Hollywood Strings in particular much easier to navigate. The MOODS feature requires the Diamond editions that include all mic positions mixed by Shawn Murphy, Gold users will not experience MOODS as they were designed. Accordingly, we strongly advise our Gold users to upgrade to Diamond, and ComposerCloud and ComposerCloud X subscribers to upgrade to ComposerCloud Plus while the 50% off offer is available through January 4. ComposerCloud X subscribers will also receive a credit for the remainder of their current year towards the upgrade price."
> Would imply that existing owners of Diamond EW libraries will get the option to use the MOODS feature which is in the MAX version. Gold owners may get the upgrade but wont be able to use the MOODS feature and they will have LITE. They also strongly reccomend Gold users to upgrade to Diamond before OPUS comes out.
> It for sure seems they may be doing away with the Diamond/Gold scheme and switching to MAX/LITE. If this is the case the wording here implies Diamond library owners may get the full upgrade to the OPUS versions. It could be possible they entirely plan on dropping their current marketing scheme of endless sales that keep on claiming to end but don't to psychologically pressure people into buying things(me twice) and going to a more traditional sales scheme.
> Any thoughts?
> 
> quote taken from this page:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soundsonline.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also can't really find any information on the choirs, I really hope those get updated as SC, HBS and HC are three of the biggest PITA's to load on a regular basis.


I’m feeling the pressure to buy diamond during sale =(

Is there anyone holding out to see how MSS will be?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

I’m really hoping they’ve recorded actual sordinos this time around.


----------



## lettucehat

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I’m really hoping they’ve recorded actual sordinos this time around.



They’ve only recorded new violins so it wouldn’t make much sense.


----------



## Ashermusic

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I’m really hoping they’ve recorded actual sordinos this time around.


Jeremy, I am not sure that we could pick out real recorded sordinos from simulated ones in a blind listening test.


----------



## Toecutter

Ivan Duch said:


> What do you guys suggest I do? Waiting until Opus is released before purchasing HWO or buying it before Jan 4th (the sale is supposed the end then)


As with anything concerning EastWest, it's a gamble. I'm tired of the constant secrecy with certain developers. If you are announcing a product, give us a price, upgrade paths (if applicable) and audio examples.

Most sample content of HO Opus edition is from HWO, so if you like the original library and the sale is good, go for it! HWO will be compatible with the new Opus player so you don't necessarily need to upgrade to Opus edition if the price is not worth it.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Going from East West's previous form, I would think it likely that people upgrading from old packages like gold/diamond will be disappointed with upgrade costs.

I already have Diamond, but if I didn't own it, I wouldn't buy Diamond now thinking I'm going to get a better deal.

Of course I'd love to be proved wrong....


----------



## RogiervG

Michael Antrum said:


> Of course I'd love to be proved wrong....


you likely are. because they urged, strongly advised people to go diamond, or upgrade the subscription before opus is released.
since they did repeat this many times, and the mentioning of being significantly higher in price (I asume for non upgrades), it strongly points to a good deal for those who have diamond. if they don't the customers will get angry, and EW will be considered a bad developer from there on. aka very very bad taste among us here at vi control and beyond.


----------



## lettucehat

I know one thing and it's that EW does not care about being criticized for terrible upgrade deals.

Of course they're urging people to buy buy buy, lol! They've got nothing else to do until Opus comes out. The thing is, once your premier libraries have spent a year at ~$132 (after discounts), you don't just flip a switch and insist they're worth twice that all of a sudden. If the Opus editions of the Hollywood libraries, say, double the price then that new engine had better be able to read my mind or something.


----------



## Tremendouz

RogiervG said:


> if they don't the customers will get angry, and EW will be considered a bad developer from there on. aka very very bad taste among us here at vi control and beyond.


I already have that taste from the install process of Spaces II.

Had to install Play to be able to install Spaces II which doesn't use Play, then I uninstalled Play to save precious storage 😆


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Ashermusic said:


> Jeremy, I am not sure that we could pick out real recorded sordinos from simulated ones in a blind listening test.


Yeah, good point Jay. You probably can't really tell the difference, and just having to hit the "con sordino" button saves having to download a huge bundle of new files.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Tremendouz said:


> I already have that taste from the install process of Spaces II.
> 
> Had to install Play to be able to install Spaces II which doesn't use Play, then I uninstalled Play to save precious storage 😆


Why would you need to do this?
Spaces II has a completely separate installer and application...

Does not seem to make sense imho


----------



## Tremendouz

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Why would you need to do this?
> Spaces II has a completely separate installer and application...
> 
> Does not seem to make sense imho


I don't know, there just was no option to download the Spaces installer in the EW installation center until after I had installed Play.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Tremendouz said:


> I don't know, there just was no option to download the Spaces installer in the EW installation center until after I had installed Play.


You can download Spaces II from here:





How to Get Started with EastWest Libraries, Plugins & More


EastWest's Getting Started guides teach you the basics of ComposerCloud, how to use the Sound Data Hard Drives, EastWest Libraries, VST plugins & more.




www.soundsonline.com





Then install it that way
That is how I have always done it


----------



## EwigWanderer

Ashermusic said:


> Jeremy, I am not sure that we could pick out real recorded sordinos from simulated ones in a blind listening test.


Sordino emulation in HS is just fantastic and I use it a lot. Berlin Strings has one too, but it’s hard to understand why it just sounds so horrible. There’s a lot of good in BST of course but HS has won my heart.


----------



## rmak

For anyone on the fence about diamond sale, this is my email with EW:




we don't have pricing information available yet for HW OPUS Edition, unfortunately. The Hollywood Orchestra Diamond has a price of $372.80 + the upgrade price ... It would probably be cheaper for you to directly wait for OPUS to be released.

Additionally, from a library content viewpoint, OPUS will be a condensed version of Hollywood Orchestra with new recordings as well.

I recommend to wait till the 21st for the OPUS release.

Happy musical New Year. Here's to a better 2021!
Lorenz​
 
  
​
 Message: Hi, thank you for sharing about HW OPUS; I am excited to see what the new software will bring.

If I want to save money and ultimately end up with HW OPUS with the updated sample content and player, do you advise purchasing HW Diamond on sale currently and upgrade when OPUS releases or wait until OPUS comes out and purchase OPUS then? Will there be much difference with either path I take in terms of savings?

I am trying to save money as it's been a tough year. Thank you for releasing awesome sample libraries.


Happy New Year!​


----------



## pmcrockett

rmak said:


> For anyone on the fence about diamond sale, this is my email with EW:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we don't have pricing information available yet for HW OPUS Edition, unfortunately. The Hollywood Orchestra Diamond has a price of $372.80 + the upgrade price ... It would probably be cheaper for you to directly wait for OPUS to be released.
> 
> Additionally, from a library content viewpoint, OPUS will be a condensed version of Hollywood Orchestra with new recordings as well.
> 
> I recommend to wait till the 21st for the OPUS release.
> 
> Happy musical New Year. Here's to a better 2021!
> Lorenz​
> 
> 
> ​
> Message: Hi, thank you for sharing about HW OPUS; I am excited to see what the new software will bring.
> 
> If I want to save money and ultimately end up with HW OPUS with the updated sample content and player, do you advise purchasing HW Diamond on sale currently and upgrade when OPUS releases or wait until OPUS comes out and purchase OPUS then? Will there be much difference with either path I take in terms of savings?
> 
> I am trying to save money as it's been a tough year. Thank you for releasing awesome sample libraries.
> 
> 
> Happy New Year!​


EW support has the same unfavorable impression of EW upgrade policies that everyone else does


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

rmak said:


> For anyone on the fence about diamond sale, this is my email with EW:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we don't have pricing information available yet for HW OPUS Edition, unfortunately. The Hollywood Orchestra Diamond has a price of $372.80 + the upgrade price ... It would probably be cheaper for you to directly wait for OPUS to be released.
> 
> Additionally, from a library content viewpoint, OPUS will be a condensed version of Hollywood Orchestra with new recordings as well.
> 
> I recommend to wait till the 21st for the OPUS release.
> 
> Happy musical New Year. Here's to a better 2021!
> Lorenz​
> 
> 
> ​
> Message: Hi, thank you for sharing about HW OPUS; I am excited to see what the new software will bring.
> 
> If I want to save money and ultimately end up with HW OPUS with the updated sample content and player, do you advise purchasing HW Diamond on sale currently and upgrade when OPUS releases or wait until OPUS comes out and purchase OPUS then? Will there be much difference with either path I take in terms of savings?
> 
> I am trying to save money as it's been a tough year. Thank you for releasing awesome sample libraries.
> 
> 
> Happy New Year!​


Damn it - I emailed the support myself (I posted the reply further upthread) and that made me buy HO Diamond Edition 
I mean, I´m sure Diamond Edition at the current sales price is great value (I haven´t downloaded it yet - need to wait for my new SSD to arrive) but ultimately I have the same objective as you and I asked them similar questions. Even more frustrating is the fact that your question was answered by the same person. I guess I should have stated my intenion (get HOOPUS for the lowest price possible) more precisely :/


----------



## Tremendouz

So much for upgrade "deal"...


----------



## Toecutter

Mmmm that's not what EW has been preaching when they advised people to buy diamond at sale or upgrade CC subscription. We'll see a lot of angry customers if they suddenly pull a fast one by changing the narrative.


----------



## rmak

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Damn it - I emailed the support myself (I posted the reply further upthread) and that made me buy HO Diamond Edition
> I mean, I´m sure Diamond Edition at the current sales price is great value (I haven´t downloaded it yet - need to wait for my new SSD to arrive) but ultimately I have the same objective as you and I asked them similar questions. Even more frustrating is the fact that your question was answered by the same person. I guess I should have stated my intenion (get HOOPUS for the lowest price possible) more precicely :/


Who knows, maybe you made the right decision =) and the upgrade path will be cheaper. Nonetheless, it is a good value for what you are getting. Speaking of which, I will need to purchase a ssd too... 

I am just using this email to make my decision as I am experiencing decision fatigue haha


----------



## rmak

Toecutter said:


> Mmmm that's not what EW has been preaching when they advised people to buy diamond at sale or upgrade CC subscription. We'll see a lot of angry customers if they suddenly pull a fast one by changing the narrative.


Yea I don't know. I just emailed them last night, so it s somewhat recent.


----------



## Toecutter

rmak said:


> Yea I don't know. I just emailed them last night, so it s somewhat recent.


Thanks for that!


----------



## Zamenhof

Tremendouz said:


> So much for upgrade "deal"...


It might still be attractive to upgrade from an upgraded Diamond edition which is what EW "strongly advised". The upgrade from Gold to Diamond cost $317. The recent answer from EW seems to be based on buying the full Diamond edition at $372.


----------



## rmak

Zamenhof said:


> It might still be attractive to upgrade from an upgraded Diamond edition which is what EW "strongly advised". The upgrade from Gold to Diamond cost $317. The recent answer from EW seems to be based on buying the full Diamond edition at $372.


Yea if anything, maybe the price difference won't be that big. You can pick up diamond for $316 via audio deluxe. If the price difference isn't too big, it may be better to wait until opus comes out.


----------



## RogiervG

rmak said:


> The Hollywood Orchestra Diamond has a price of $372.80 + the upgrade price ...
> 
> Additionally, from a library content viewpoint, OPUS will be a condensed version of Hollywood Orchestra with new recordings as well.



Thee wording: "condensed version" makes me feel a little worried.
Also, i don't understand how $372.80 + the upgrade price is possible? the full deal is now $372.80. What is added on top? it cannot be every more than a full price. So total sum should be less than full price of $372.80.. *riddled*


----------



## jbuhler

RogiervG said:


> Thee wording: "condensed version" makes me feel a little worried.
> Also, i don't understand how $372.80 + the upgrade price is possible? the full deal is now $372.80. What is added on top? it cannot be every more than a full price. So total sum should be less than full price of $372.80.. *riddled*


I read it as saying the credit for owning Diamond will be limited—there will be an upgrade fee and it will be significant. So your total cost for HOOPUS if you buy Diamond now will be $372.80 plus the upgrade fee, and that total will be (somewhat, maybe significantly) more than the cost of just buying HOOPUS itself when it is released. 

This is the first I've heard that HOOPUS will be a subset of the existing HO (but also with some additional sample content of its own) rather than being a reorganization and expansion of HO, so evidently HOOPUS won't simply replace HO.


----------



## dzilizzi

It sounds like it might be different enough that I will be glad I have the original Diamond version. Doesn't really affect me, as I bought Diamond over a year ago in one of the 60% off sales. 

I really am hoping the Orchestrator will work with any of the libraries, not just the new Opus version. I love The Orchestra's engine thing, but the actual Orchestra sounds are just so-so. So HWO with Sonuscore's engine will be really great.


----------



## SupremeFist

This is all quite interesting. Maybe it means HOOPUS is going to be priced very aggressively at launch (at or beneath the level of BBCSO Pro?). Or maybe EW are not ready to release on Jan 21 but made the announcement before Christmas to try to spoil competitors' sales, but that is a cynical thought... 

Whatever, I'm already using Diamond and it's awesome.


----------



## Frederick

That support's advice makes me think of HOOPUS as a new product.

I'm glad I already own EWHO Diamond + solo instruments - bought it about a month before the OPUS anouncement at 60% off. Glad, mainly because articulations are going to be cut next to the additions. By the way, I think that knowdledge was posted here in May already.

For the optional Orchestrator you'll need the OPUS edition. I already have The Orchestra Complete 2 and you can export the midi for use with for instance EWHO, so I can't say I'm THAT excited about the Orchestrator.

Bottom line: If the OPUS edition is going to be very expensive with almost no price advantage for existing owners, then I'm just going to wait till it is going to be offered at 60% off in about a year (or two). I don't really care which way this is going to go. It's fine either way. 

Edit: And this new from the ground up designed OPUS engine: We're talking about a 1.0.0 version. I would be surprised if it is going to be fully stable from the beginning... How long did it take before Play was stable?


----------



## stfciu

I bought HO a month ago especially for having opportunity to buy HOOPUS at loyalty price as I believe EW deserves a second chance (considering past user experience) and they are capable of doing great products which HO is in my opinion and HOOPUS seems like a great update. If the support answer will actually be true then I will be really, really dissapointent and loose faith in EW totally.


----------



## rmak

Frederick said:


> I'm glad I already own EWHO Diamond + solo instruments - bought it about a month before the OPUS anouncement at 60% off. Glad, mainly because articulations are going to be cut next to the additions. By the way, I think that knowdledge was posted here in May already.


What articulations will be cut? How did you find out about this, or what was the source of info? Thanks


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

I am pretty sure there are no articulations going to be cut, they will just simplify the number/organization of the patches.


----------



## Frederick

rmak said:


> What articulations will be cut? How did you find out about this, or what was the source of info? Thanks


" The new interface allows control that you don’t have now. It is Laser focused on orchestral instruments. Many of the old patches are gone (but you’ll still have a legacy version to access them). And you will be using the bigger patches, which will run easily."

Post #113 in this thread by Quantum Leap.


----------



## Audio Birdi

everyPlugin.com


Tons of Plugins, Hundreds of Bundles, We carry a Huge variety of Music and Audio software tools from the main brands in the industry.




everyplugin.com





I think HWO Diamond is cheapest here for $312.97. Ordered from this e-tailer a few times and they've been great


----------



## purple

Frederick said:


> " The new interface allows control that you don’t have now. It is Laser focused on orchestral instruments. Many of the old patches are gone (but you’ll still have a legacy version to access them). And you will be using the bigger patches, which will run easily."
> 
> Post #113 in this thread by Quantum Leap.


I believe the idea is to remove things that might be redundant when the new interface is out. I assume there are controls on there that would make certain niche patches obsolete or unnecessary. Just speculation at this point. It's only a couple weeks out though.


----------



## Jose7822

This question has been addressed before. EW is NOT removing any articulation. What they ARE doing is simplifying them with “NEW“ articulations so that you can do more with less. I’m assuming they’re achieving this with scripting running behind the scenes in order to trigger the corresponding articulation without needing several patches to play a musical phrase. As you can clearly see from Nick‘s response, the current articulations will be kept inside a legacy folder. This has been confirmed again by another EW representative.

Hope this clears things up a bit ^_^.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I don't understand why anyone thought buying HWO now would lead to a lower cost upgrade to the new OPUS when it comes out. If you have any previous experience of East West, you'd well know that was highly unlikely to be the case.....

Also, going on past performance, I wonder if it will actually appear on January 21st - a delay wouldn't be a huge surprise either.

I will say though, that I'm looking forward immensely to seeing it when released. It's a product that has stood the test of time extremely well.

Edit: Just been to the EastWest Site. Currently a new licence of Spaces II costs $149. An upgrade from Spaces I to v II is $184......


----------



## lukevaljean

Michael Antrum said:


> I don't understand why anyone thought buying HWO now would lead to a lower cost upgrade to the new OPUS when it comes out. If you have any previous experience of East West, you'd well know that was highly unlikely to be the case.....
> 
> Also, going on past performance, I wonder if it will actually appear on January 21st - a delay wouldn't be a huge surprise either.
> 
> I will say though, that I'm looking forward immensely to seeing it when released. It's a product that has stood the test of time extremely well.


Perhaps to build better brand loyalty. There's alot of competitors in this sphere now than there was before. I dove in and hope I don't get burned because that was the message support conveyed would be the best path so we will see if we are all suckers in the end very soon. But if they are marketing an new product keeping your existing customers happy to get more positive referrals for the product would be better than having hundreds of upset customers trashing your business and word of mouth recommendations for a few bucks more.


----------



## Michael Antrum

lukevaljean said:


> Perhaps to build better brand loyalty. There's alot of competitors in this sphere now than there was before. I dove in and hope I don't get burned because that was the message support conveyed would be the best path so we will see if we are all suckers in the end very soon. But if they are marketing an new product keeping your existing customers happy to get more positive referrals for the product would be better than having hundreds of upset customers trashing your business and word of mouth recommendations for a few bucks more.


You would think so wouldn't you. I've just edited my post above with regard to the Spaces upgrade....


----------



## stfciu

Michael Antrum said:


> I don't understand why anyone thought buying HWO now would lead to a lower cost upgrade to the new OPUS when it comes out. If you have any previous experience of East West, you'd well know that was highly unlikely to be the case.....
> 
> Also, going on past performance, I wonder if it will actually appear on January 21st - a delay wouldn't be a huge surprise either.
> 
> I will say though, that I'm looking forward immensely to seeing it when released. It's a product that has stood the test of time extremely well.


Because all past EW activities in this area was negatively taken by the loyal customers and some of us hope they will rearrange their thinking in this subject. Now it is a great opportunity for them to do this. I truly believe in that because how you treat present customers implies future interest within new customers. It is somekind of point of reference. If taken badly you lose not only present clients but a large portion of new sales. No philosophy, just pure business rule.


----------



## lettucehat

Yeah the hope that there will be a reasonable upgrade price is based on the hope that they are turning a new page after years of weird upgrade policy. I don't see why not - if their policies have been erratic and arbitrary, the last thing you would assume is they'll hold the line and be consistent


----------



## lukevaljean

Michael Antrum said:


> You would think so wouldn't you. I've just edited my post above with regard to the Spaces upgrade....


I can't speak to why they aren't offering an discount on upgrades for spaces, but for opus the specifically instructed people to get diamond before opus comes out for a significant discount going so far as to have gold users pay an upgrade fee so I think EASTWEST should chime in and clarify why they aren't offering existing customers the pro rata share of the present discount price for upgrades as well. It makes no sense for an new license to be cheaper than an upgrade that's just bad business practices from a brand loyalty and an sales point of view (a discounted sale is better than turning your customer off your brand because a new license cost more than the existing one causing your customer to look elsewhere.).


----------



## Michael Antrum

No they didn't....they suggested that people should upgrade their subscription to Composer Cloud Plus. 

They said nothing about permanent licence upgrades.

I've had HWO for some years now and had plenty of value out of it, so I do hope they change this upgrade policy, but they are very keen on subscription customers too.....Won't be too long now until we find out in any case......


----------



## shponglefan

Michael Antrum said:


> No they didn't....they suggested that people should upgrade their subscription to Composer Cloud Plus.
> 
> They said nothing about permanent licence upgrades.



They suggested both. This is what they state on their site:

_The MOODS feature requires the Diamond editions that include all mic positions mixed by Shawn Murphy, Gold users will not experience MOODS as they were designed. *Accordingly, we strongly advise our Gold users to upgrade to Diamond, and ComposerCloud and ComposerCloud X subscribers to upgrade to ComposerCloud Plus* while the 50% off offer is available through January 4. ComposerCloud X subscribers will also receive a credit for the remainder of their current year towards the upgrade price.






Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest


Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.




www.soundsonline.com




_


----------



## Michael Antrum

Well, speaking as a HWO Diamond owner, I hope you are correct. Odd that the subscription pricing is set but not the upgrade pricing though......Not too long to wait now.


----------



## szczaw

I don't feel compelled at all to pay a hefty upgrade price for mostly the same sample content. I'd rather buy another library (hello Vista !). The Orchestrator could be useful but as a separate product can't imagine a high price tag on that either.


----------



## dcoscina

While it's fun to speculate (I guess), I think it's best to wait until it's released or EW provides more info. I'd like to hear demos and walk thrust. Then I can form a more enlightened opinion..


----------



## khollister

I personally think "condensed" refers to collapsing the rat's nest of patches (especially HWS) into something more streamlined with the same or expanded content. I seriously doubt we are losing articulations or sample depth.


----------



## AllanH

khollister said:


> I personally think "condensed" refers to collapsing the rat's nest of patches (especially HWS) into something more streamlined with the same or expanded content. I seriously doubt we are losing articulations or sample depth.


I hope they something akin the the "powerful" patches and improve on CC1/CC11 consistency. That alone would be huge. For strings, I rarely use anything other than the power or combo short patches. 

If they could just make dynamics, vibrato and expression map consistently to CC1, CC2 (e.g.), and CC11, I'd be very happy to upgrade.


----------



## Jose7822

Back in the day, EW could get away with charging an arm and a leg per library release when the competition was barely existent. These days, however, there are an abundance of great sample libraries to choose from. Honestly, as much as I love EW, they really need to deliver the goods. Not just with a new interface and ease of usage. But also with a competitive full license price, as well as a fair upgrade price for existing HO Diamond owners) on OPUS for me to be sold on it.

Yes, I said I would like a fair upgrade price on OPUS. But this is different since OPUS won’t be sold at a 60% discount price, on top of an already discounted price, at launch, like HO is currently being sold at. Just setting the record straight because I know there’s bound to be someone rubbing it in :-P. My previous comments were in reference to HO (which is being sold at a ridiculously low price right now), not OPUS.


----------



## MauroPantin

I think the marketing strategies of other companies has had quite an effect on me. I keep visiting this thread and EWs site looking for new stuff, a teaser, a video, a demo, anything, really. We're 11 days out and it sorta makes me anxious that there's nothing... In fairness maybe "anxious" is not the right word but you guys get it. I would love to hear something, or to see the player in action, etc.


----------



## Johnny

It definitely would be neat to see a Thomas Bergersen Hollywood Opus demo drop (Hopefully this month)  I think that would turn a lot of heads back towards East West again, and really only build the hype and excite the community like nothing else! Just like the good old days ~ Red Curtains drawn and the suspenseful wait for EW Hollywood Strings ~


----------



## Ashermusic

Johnny said:


> It definitely would be neat to see a Thomas Bergersen Hollywood Opus demo drop (Hopefully this month)  I think that would turn a lot of heads back towards East West again, and really only build the hype and excite the community like nothing else! Just like the good old days ~ Red Curtains drawn and the suspenseful wait for EW Hollywood Strings ~


AFAIK EW's relationship with TJ is strictly in the past.


----------



## Johnny

Ashermusic said:


> AFAIK EW's relationship with TJ is strictly in the past.


Hahaha, I kinda figured... Thx Jay ;p Yeah, that shipped has sadly sailed after all of the past events hasn't it?... Gosh, what times those were... I still use the EW Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds and I don't mind it for what it was and what went down... It's kind of legacy to me at this point  Maybe Ivan Torrent is not busy and can drop us an Opus teaser soon


----------



## YaniDee

Quite a long thread..is there a release date?


----------



## Tremendouz

YaniDee said:


> Quite a long thread..is there a release date?


I think it's on page 1. January 21st iirc

Edit: welp, not on page 1 but the official site


----------



## Johnny

Alright my wallet is ready! (After having bought HW Strings, Brass and Woodwinds upon launch day @ $1499.99 each ;p)


----------



## Richard Bowling

Hollywood strings was that much but it seems like brass and WW were in the $800 range on release day ... if memory serves.


----------



## Jose7822

Johnny said:


> 20 days tomorrow... Alright my wallet is ready! (After having bought HW Strings, Brass and Woodwinds upon launch day @ $1499.99 each ;p)



Hopefully not. You mean 10 days .


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Jose7822 said:


> Hopefully not. You mean 10 days .


I did wonder... thought perhaps he knew about a delay I did not


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Johnny said:


> It definitely would be neat to see a Thomas Bergersen Hollywood Opus demo drop (Hopefully this month)  I think that would turn a lot of heads back towards East West again, and really only build the hype and excite the community like nothing else! Just like the good old days ~ Red Curtains drawn and the suspenseful wait for EW Hollywood Strings ~


This sounds like a Composer Battle scenario - Thomas Bergersen (The one whom has been named but no more seen) vs. Andy Blaney (the one whom shall not be named, nor seen) 

Choose this day whom you will support!


----------



## Johnny

Jose7822 said:


> Hopefully not. You mean 10 days .


Whew... A typo... I almost had a heart attack ;p (Sure do hope they don't delay as per usual though...) I'll edit that post ;p


----------



## szczaw

Johnny said:


> Whew... A typo... I almost had a heart attack ;p (Sure do hope they don't delay as per usual though...) I'll edit that post ;p


You jinxed it.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Johnny said:


> Whew... A typo... I almost had a heart attack ;p (Sure do hope they don't delay as per usual though...) I'll edit that post ;p


I can't remember the last time EW was on time with a major release. But here's hoping!


----------



## Johnny

szczaw said:


> You jinxed it.


I had a feeling they would be following this thread, waiting for the first man/woman to say Opus will be delayed... EW: "Make it so!"


----------



## Johnny

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I can't remember the last time EW was on time with a major release. But here's hoping!


I'm still waiting for Forbidden Planet and Play Pro.


----------



## Johnny

Johnny said:


> I'm still waiting for Forbidden Planet and Play Pro.


Somewhere on my computer I have that EW poster, "Coming Q4!" When was that? 2016? I can't remember anymore... Neither can EW...


----------



## Audio Birdi

Johnny said:


> I'm still waiting for Forbidden Planet and Play Pro.


Play Pro has turned into OPUS engine I feel  Which is a good thing! :D


----------



## jaketanner

So has a consensus been reached as to the most cost effective method to get OPUS? Buy now and upgrade later....wait until it's released?


----------



## Tremendouz

jaketanner said:


> So has a consensus been reached as to the most cost effective method to get OPUS? Buy now and upgrade later....wait until it's released?


I don't think so, they've seemingly been really secretive about it.


----------



## RogiervG

in the end, no matter which is cheaper.. we all will buy a license (as upgrade or a full product), at some point in time.
That's what vi-controllers do... rrright?


----------



## Beans

RogiervG said:


> in the end, no matter which is cheaper.. we all will buy a license (as upgrade or a full product), at some point in time.
> That's what vi-controllers do... rrright?


It would seem that the VIs are the ones that are controlling us.


----------



## erikradbo

Beans said:


> It would seem that the VIs are the ones that are controlling us.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

jaketanner said:


> So has a consensus been reached as to the most cost effective method to get OPUS? Buy now and upgrade later....wait until it's released?


No one knows. But I personally know I’ll be sticking with the Gold versions. I’m still only paying $15 per month, so it’s win-win.


----------



## Geomir

Jeremy Spencer said:


> No one knows. But I personally know I’ll be sticking with the Gold versions. I’m still only paying $15 per month, so it’s win-win.


I also love the Gold Versions of EWHO and EWQLSO and I am not planning to upgrade any time soon. But this description makes me a little worried:

"_The MOODS feature requires the Diamond editions that include all mic positions mixed by Shawn Murphy, Gold users will not experience MOODS as they were designed. Accordingly, we strongly advise our Gold users to upgrade to Diamond, and ComposerCloud and ComposerCloud X subscribers to upgrade to ComposerCloud Plus_".

Of course it's up to us to follow (or not) a specific advice!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Geomir said:


> I also love the Gold Versions of EWHO and EWQLSO and I am not planning to upgrade any time soon. But this description makes me a little worried:
> 
> "_The MOODS feature requires the Diamond editions that include all mic positions mixed by Shawn Murphy, Gold users will not experience MOODS as they were designed. Accordingly, we strongly advise our Gold users to upgrade to Diamond, and ComposerCloud and ComposerCloud X subscribers to upgrade to ComposerCloud Plus_".
> 
> Of course it's up to us to follow (or not) a specific advice!


We'll have to see if it's worth the upgrade. There's no way in heck I'd pay that regular monthly price for CC Plus, not even the upgrade price. I'd probably just upgrade to the full versions outright.


----------



## jaketanner

Tremendouz said:


> I don't think so, they've seemingly been really secretive about it.


They really have. However I did get word from their chat that it may very well be cheaper to buy it once released rather than upgrade.


----------



## Johnny

Audio Birdi said:


> Play Pro has turned into OPUS engine I feel  Which is a good thing! :D


Oh neat! That would actually really good!


----------



## Johnny

jaketanner said:


> So has a consensus been reached as to the most cost effective method to get OPUS? Buy now and upgrade later....wait until it's released?


Yes, I would consider doing just that if you would like to save money. East West is a bit 2006 when it comes to launch deals and usually markets the "old" way of things- early birds will pay the premium and the ones who wait will be rewarded


----------



## Jose7822

Audio Birdi said:


> Play Pro has turned into OPUS engine I feel  Which is a good thing! :D


Ahhhh!! I give up, lol.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Geomir said:


> I also love the Gold Versions of EWHO and EWQLSO and I am not planning to upgrade any time soon. But this description makes me a little worried:
> 
> "_The MOODS feature requires the Diamond editions that include all mic positions mixed by Shawn Murphy, Gold users will not experience MOODS as they were designed. Accordingly, we strongly advise our Gold users to upgrade to Diamond, and ComposerCloud and ComposerCloud X subscribers to upgrade to ComposerCloud Plus_".


Well, the moods are probably just presets for different mixing configurations of mics and maybe reverb and with gold's 1 (or cc's gold's 2) mics you can't use them fully, I wouldn't worry about it that much


----------



## jaketanner

Jeremy Spencer said:


> No one knows. But I personally know I’ll be sticking with the Gold versions. I’m still only paying $15 per month, so it’s win-win.


currently it's $10, and from what chat said, it will be that way for the year.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

jaketanner said:


> currently it's $10, and from what chat said, it will be that way for the year.


That’s for the educational discount.


----------



## jaketanner

Jeremy Spencer said:


> That’s for the educational discount.


Yeah. Isn’t the edu normally $15? Or is that regular price?


----------



## Markrs

jaketanner said:


> Yeah. Isn’t the edu normally $15? Or is that regular price?


Regular price (though the advertise it as a sale/discount price) I got it for $10 back in March last year.


----------



## jaketanner

Markrs said:


> Regular price (though the advertise it as a sale/discount price) I got it for $10 back in March last year.


Nice. I’ve subscribed before. But chose the start stop option. Might do that to “test” opus before committing.


----------



## Markrs

jaketanner said:


> Nice. I’ve subscribed before. But chose the start stop option. Might do that to “test” opus before committing.


I should say the $10 was for the 12 months subscription, not the month by month (no minimum subscription) option.


----------



## jaketanner

Markrs said:


> I should say the $10 was for the 12 months subscription, not the month by month (no minimum subscription) option.


Right. I knew what you meant. It’s worth paying a bit more for me to have the option to start and stop. If I find opus valuable, I’ll consider the yearly.


----------



## Beans

One week to go!

Interesting that the 60% off sale ends Jan 22, with Opus coming Jan 21.


----------



## topijokinen

Seems like an infinite sale to me. The date just goes forward every now and then and the picture / title of the sale might change 😀


----------



## AceAudioHQ

If I remember correctly, the sale was supposed to last until 4.1. But was extended to 15.1.


----------



## dzilizzi

If I remember correctly, the sale was supposed to end about a year and a half ago.


----------



## jbuhler

dzilizzi said:


> If I remember correctly, the sale was supposed to end about a year and a half ago.


EW's sales habit really make me wonder how long they will be able to maintain full pricing on HOOPUS.


----------



## dzilizzi

jbuhler said:


> EW's sales habit really make me wonder how long they will be able to maintain full pricing on HOOPUS.


Based on other new products, about a year.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

dzilizzi said:


> If I remember correctly, the sale was supposed to end about a year and a half ago.


The current sale began in the spring, less than a year ago


----------



## Jose7822

NEWS UPDATE:

I got a reply from EW Facebook page stating the following:

_“Opus will be introduced at the NAMM Believe in Music event on Jan 21st, It will be released shortly after with the new Opus software and a companion product Hollywood Orchestrator”_

At least they’re sticking to the original OFFICIAL release date .


----------



## BasariStudios

EWQL Sale was supposed to end in 2010 when i bought the Choirs.
On the other hand, there is not a single video or anything or a teaser
on the Opus anywhere at all on the internet.


----------



## Beans

Jose7822 said:


> NEWS UPDATE:
> 
> I got a reply from EW Facebook page stating the following:
> 
> _“Opus will be introduced at the NAMM Believe in Music event on Jan 21st, It will be released shortly after with the new Opus software and a companion product Hollywood Orchestrator”_
> 
> At least they’re sticking to the original OFFICIAL release date .


Ah, so, "Coming January 21" as posted on the website is the reveal only. I'm hoping we get an understanding of pricing on that date.

Now, let's see... BBCSO Pro received 36 GB of new content for $0. HOOPUS is assumed to be around 230 GB of new recordings, which is roughly 6x as much.

$0 x 6 = $0.

I'm in!

(this is a joke post)


----------



## AceAudioHQ

EW Facebook comments say the release date is the 21st


----------



## Jose7822

AceAudioHQ said:


> EW Facebook comments say the release date is the 21st


When was that posted? The answer I was given by EW was posted shortly before I came here to let you guys know about it. Unless you have a more recent reply, I’m going with what was said to me when I asked the question on Facebook.


----------



## ShidoStrife

I just noticed their previous emails always say "debut at NAMM" instead of "release"

We don't know how short "shortly after" is, though. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Kevinside

it will be revealed and the release will follow shortly...
i am curious about the upgrade price... My god, i paid so much for HWO...only to learn, that the purchase was worthless...

I think EW should rethink their pricing, especially for people, who are long time custormers...

But to be honest... EW is "dead" for me personally...sry...cause at the times, i supported them, i never thought, that all my investments are so worthless today... its a joke, when i think, how much money i spent in their products... i really stopped to be East Wests Funding Idiot, only to see the libraries going so cheap...Great for all people out there and i will be one of you... I N E V E R buy an EW library at release date again....never


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Kevinside said:


> it will be revealed and the release will follow shortly...
> i am curious about the upgrade price... My god, i paid so much for HWO...only to learn, that the purchase was worthless...
> 
> I think EW should rethink their pricing, especially for people, who are long time custormers...
> 
> But to be honest... EW is "dead" for me personally...sry...cause at the times, i supported them, i never thought, that all my investments are so worthless today... its a joke, when i think, how much money i spent in their products... i really stopped to be East Wests Funding Idiot, only to see the libraries going so cheap...Great for all people out there and i will be one of you... I N E V E R buy an EW library at release date again....never


I guess you could look at it from another aspect. I also paid a lot for my EW libraries, and I also subscribe to CCX ($15 per month, which is peanuts), just to have access to the entire collection. So let's say I paid $2500 for my owned libraries; the original Complete Composer Collection (2006?), HS/HB Gold, SO Gold, Stormdrum 1&2. Since 2006, that investment has earned me well over $25K (which isn't a lot over fourteen years, but I totally got my money's worth). So to that extent, EW owes me nothing, and I'll gladly invest in their products going forward.


----------



## Kevinside

I am glad, that your investment paid back to you through your work...


----------



## Michael Antrum

Kevinside said:


> it will be revealed and the release will follow shortly...
> i am curious about the upgrade price... My god, i paid so much for HWO...only to learn, that the purchase was worthless...
> 
> I think EW should rethink their pricing, especially for people, who are long time custormers...
> 
> But to be honest... EW is "dead" for me personally...sry...cause at the times, i supported them, i never thought, that all my investments are so worthless today... its a joke, when i think, how much money i spent in their products... i really stopped to be East Wests Funding Idiot, only to see the libraries going so cheap...Great for all people out there and i will be one of you... I N E V E R buy an EW library at release date again....never


Sorry, I don't understand - how was you purchase worthless ? Didn't you get what you paid for ? 

HWO is one of the best purchases I have made, I've had it for years and surely got my moneys worth out of it. 

I'm genuinely interested in why you feel that way - not being argumentative....


----------



## purple

Michael Antrum said:


> Sorry, I don't understand - how was you purchase worthless ? Didn't you get what you paid for ?
> 
> HWO is one of the best purchases I have made, I've had it for years and surely got my moneys worth out of it.
> 
> I'm genuinely interested in why you feel that way - not being argumentative....


I'll NEVER buy a product from Dell again! I bought a computer from them for $2000 in 2006 and now a computer with the same specs costs $200 and fits in my backpack! It's just not fair to the older customers and I won't be their cash cow anymore!


----------



## Jose7822

purple said:


> I'll NEVER buy a product from Dell again! I bought a computer from them for $2000 in 2006 and now a computer with the same specs costs $200 and fits in my backpack! It's just not fair to the older customers and I won't be their cash cow anymore!



I did the same with a DELL XPS back in 2008. The computer still works. NEVER AGAIN!


----------



## ansthenia

Man I dunno if I should get the diamond collection now, while it's on sale, just for the discount it will give me off of opus. Have they said what the discount will be or anything?


----------



## lettucehat

I wouldn't do it. They've given mixed signals, even when emailed directly about that.


----------



## Laddy

ansthenia said:


> Man I dunno if I should get the diamond collection now, while it's on sale, just for the discount it will give me off of opus. Have they said what the discount will be or anything?


I would wait a week and see. Someone said earlier that the sale would last longer than the 21th.


----------



## Michael Antrum

The upgrade price could go either way. It's a gamble.

However, If you buy HWO now, and the upgrade price is silly - you still have the standard HWO, which is a bargain for what you get. After the upgrade is released, you may no longer be able to buy the old version at the very low prices it goes for today - so there is that to consider.

If you are buying it solely to get a 'discounted' upgrade price on the new library - well going on previous history I wouldn't - but that's just my best guess - I'd be happy to be wrong on this.

As far as the date is concerned. - Well it 'seems' to have gone from we are releasing it on the 21st to we are announcing it on the 21st at NAMM and it will be released *shortly* afterwards. Going by previous form that's not exactly a surprise either.

I would also hazard a guess that the word 'shortly' is being used in shall we say 'elastic sense' too. Again, however, I would be delighted to be proved wrong.

Anyway, who cares, because the facts are the Hollywood Orchestra is a terrific library that has stood the test of time far better than most, and is insane value for money. It just takes more work to get the best out of it.

I'm sure the new, updated version will more than worth waiting for, and I'd much rather it came a little late and be right, rather than be bug city like some other recent products have been.


----------



## Kevinside

@Michael Antrum
East west will lose at lot of customers...when the upgrade is more expensive....
I hope so,cause EW have no focus about new Play inerface...


----------



## Ashermusic

I have been reading that if they do such and such or don’t do such and such “EastWest will lose a lot of customers for probably ten years now. And yet, they continue to thrive.

Maybe, just maybe, they know what they are doing. I know, crazy idea.


----------



## RogiervG

Ashermusic said:


> I have been reading that if they do such and such or don’t do such and such “EastWest will lose a lot of customers for probably ten years now. And yet, they continue to thrive.
> 
> Maybe, just maybe, they know what they are doing. I know, crazy idea.


Well.. yes and no.
They are driving away the loyal customers, that pay for perpertual licenses, but gain new customers that do subscriptions only. That can be seen as a good move OR bad.

Good in the sense they gain more monthly/yearly paying customers, if that is their future business plan: ONLY subscriptions, like Adobe does.

But bad in the sense, that quite a bunch of customers that made EW/QL what they are now, will not buy into them anymore. And those leaving are ofcourse verbal enough to vent their feelings towards EW/QL on the internet. (which might impact subscribers in the end too)


----------



## Ashermusic

Blah, blah, blah, IMHO.


----------



## RogiervG

Ashermusic said:


> Blah, blah, blah, IMHO.



To think of it, everything in life is blah blah. 
It just depends how a person connects with it, what angle is being viewed at

Emotions/thoughts/experiences differ from person to person.
What i think, can be blah blah for you. What you think can be blah blah to me. etc etc..


----------



## Wlad

My template is built around the HO Diamon with the addition of some other sample libraries, and I'm happy with it as it is. The update is welcome in the form of an Opus engine and reworked/rerecorded samples, but if the upgrade price for the perpetual license comes anywhere near 400$ (or up) I will gladly redirect the investment towards the BBC SO Pro, next time it is on sale. I'm not crazy about the Spitfire's library, but let's be real here, when BBC SO Pro is on sale (600-ish green ones) it is a no-brainer compared to the HO Opus upgrade. We will see, but to be honest, I fear the worst.


----------



## BasariStudios

Wlad said:


> My template is built around the HO Diamon with the addition of some other sample libraries, and I'm happy with it as it is. The update is welcome in the form of an Opus engine and reworked/rerecorded samples, but if the upgrade price for the perpetual license comes anywhere near 400$ (or up) I will gladly redirect the investment towards the BBC SO Pro, next time it is on sale. I'm not crazy about the Spitfire's library, but let's be real here, when BBC SO Pro is on sale (600-ish green ones) it is a no-brainer compared to the HO Opus upgrade. We will see, but to be honest, I fear the worst.


Plus the BBC SO Pro got an update yesterday. I own BBC SO Pro and EW HS Diamond,
i think i like the Strings in BBC SO Pro better.


----------



## BasariStudios

Kevinside said:


> But to be honest... EW is "dead" for me personally...sry...cause at the times, i supported them, i never thought, that all my investments are so worthless today... its a joke, when i think, how much money i spent in their products... i really stopped to be East Wests Funding Idiot, only to see the libraries going so cheap...Great for all people out there and i will be one of you... I N E V E R buy an EW library at release date again....never


They became Waves, i own around 20 Libraries which i bought over a Decade
ago at full prices and today they are worthless, Sound wise and Price wise.
There is a lot of other great Companies to give money to now.


----------



## Jose7822

I agree with the general sentiment of EW having to deliver price wise this time around. Too many competitors out there in today’s market, unlike how things were back even 10 years ago. If they don’t give us a good incentive to upgrade from HO Diamond, then I guess I‘m skipping OPUS too. I’m not interested in their subscription model if that’s what they’re trying to accomplish by not giving us a fair full license price. I know, blah, blah, blah.


----------



## Markrs

Wlad said:


> My template is built around the HO Diamon with the addition of some other sample libraries, and I'm happy with it as it is. The update is welcome in the form of an Opus engine and reworked/rerecorded samples, but if the upgrade price for the perpetual license comes anywhere near 400$ (or up) I will gladly redirect the investment towards the BBC SO Pro, next time it is on sale. I'm not crazy about the Spitfire's library, but let's be real here, when BBC SO Pro is on sale (600-ish green ones) it is a no-brainer compared to the HO Opus upgrade. We will see, but to be honest, I fear the worst.


I bought BBCSO Pro with this same reasoning. I initially got Core but upgraded a couple of weeks later before the sale ended as the value in BBCSO is fantastic. Luckily I also have CCX so I will be able to try out the enhancements first and then see if it is worth upgrading HO Diamond at a later date.


----------



## dcoscina

Why do I have the feeling this update will be good but not the second coming like it's been touted? I think we've reached the ceiling for jaw-dropping innovation to be honest. Everything is "theme and variation". Obviously, I might eat my words but I think anyone who thinks this is going to solve all their problems in life is setting themselves up for massive disappointment. This last line applies to any and all releases from any developer....


----------



## SupremeFist

Wlad said:


> My template is built around the HO Diamon with the addition of some other sample libraries, and I'm happy with it as it is. The update is welcome in the form of an Opus engine and reworked/rerecorded samples, but if the upgrade price for the perpetual license comes anywhere near 400$ (or up) I will gladly redirect the investment towards the BBC SO Pro, next time it is on sale. I'm not crazy about the Spitfire's library, but let's be real here, when BBC SO Pro is on sale (600-ish green ones) it is a no-brainer compared to the HO Opus upgrade. We will see, but to be honest, I fear the worst.


I have HOD and it is of course great as is, but I'm so impressed by BBC Core after just a couple of weeks that I'm now considering going BBC Pro rather than Opus. Spitfire rub some people up the wrong way but they are for sure more transparent, and generous with updates etc.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Kevinside said:


> @Michael Antrum
> East west will lose at lot of customers...when the upgrade is more expensive....
> I hope so,cause EW have no focus about new Play inerface...


Balogne. The upgrades have occasionally been more expensive for years, yet they’re still going strong. And what are you referring to with Play? It’s rock solid.


----------



## dcoscina

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Balogne. The upgrades have occasionally been more expensive for years, yet they’re still going strong. And what are you referring to with Play? It’s rock solid.


Their SPACES 2 pricing was rather stupid for a long time. It wasn't very considerate towards those who bought SPACES compared to new customers.. 

I seldom admonish developers publicly anymore because I don't think it wears well but in this case, I have to say I was rather disappointed in EW with this pricing.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

dcoscina said:


> Their SPACES 2 pricing was rather stupid for a long time. It wasn't very considerate towards those who bought SPACES compared to new customers..
> 
> I seldom admonish developers publicly anymore because I don't think it wears well but in this case, I have to say I was rather disappointed in EW with this pricing.


Not sure if it's still priced this way, but I went to see about buying an additional Spaces II license...and it was more than actually buying it. I ended up buying 7th Heaven, so their loss. But at the end of the day, still an EW fan.


----------



## purple

If you're on the fence about whether to buy diamond now... I'd say just go for it. If you want those samples you get them either way. Even if there isn't a good upgrade path to OPUS yet, you still get the same samples! If play is a dealbreaker for you and you want to see how well OPUS works then wait! But don't wait if you have already made up your mind about getting HWO.


----------



## Wlad

purple said:


> If you're on the fence about whether to buy diamond now... I'd say just go for it. If you want those samples you get them either way. Even if there isn't a good upgrade path to OPUS yet, you still get the same samples! If play is a dealbreaker for you and you want to see how well OPUS works then wait! But don't wait if you have already made up your mind about getting HWO.


Totally agree with you on this. Also, we don't know how well will the Opus engine work at the release. Maybe it will be a disaster at the start and it could take years for them to fix it, like it was the case with Play, which now works flawlessly in my case. But we could get stuck with Play and old samples whether we upgraded to Opus or not.


----------



## dzilizzi

Wlad said:


> Totally agree with you on this. Also, we don't know how well will the Opus engine work at the release. Maybe it will be a disaster at the start and it could take years for them to fix it, like it was the case with Play, which now works flawlessly in my case. But we could get stuck with Play and old samples whether we upgraded to Opus or not.


Based on Play, it will take 5 versions until it will work properly.


----------



## Jose7822

You guys can’t compare PLAY to OPUS. Not even close!

Did you see who’s behind OPUS’s development? I would be surprised if it turned out the same as PLAY. I’m not saying that it’ll be bug free. Of course they’ll have to iron out the bugs, especially in the beginning. But it will definitely NOT be a disaster, by all means.


----------



## José Herring

Jose7822 said:


> You guys can’t compare PLAY to OPUS. Not even close!
> 
> Did you see who’s behind OPUS’s development? I would be surprised if it turned out the same as PLAY. I’m not saying that it’ll be bug free. Of course they’ll have to iron out the bugs, especially in the beginning. But it will definitely NOT be a disaster, by all means.


Oooh, who's behind Opus? Where can I get that info?


----------



## Jose7822

Literally on their OPUS page (Scroll down to where it talks about the OPUS engine):






Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest


Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.




www.soundsonline.com


----------



## José Herring

Jose7822 said:


> Literally on their OPUS page (Scroll down to where it talks about the OPUS engine):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soundsonline.com


Man, how did they expect me to see that? It's way at the bottom of the page.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jose7822 said:


> You guys can’t compare PLAY to OPUS. Not even close!
> 
> Did you see who’s behind OPUS’s development? I would be surprised if it turned out the same as PLAY. I’m not saying that it’ll be bug free. Of course they’ll have to iron out the bugs, especially in the beginning. But it will definitely NOT be a disaster, by all means.


It will probably have some issues. Anyth Cubase still doesn't work the way it should for me. 

That said, I'm really looking forward to the orchestrator by Sonuscore. I love "The Orchestra" for the engine. Add to it HWO sound? It should be amazing. 

And? It was a joke. Hopefully, they learned enough from making Play and OPUS works well.


----------



## Gerbil

Why is a third of the UI taken up with the name of the relevant section? Is that just a promotion snapshot or what the engine will look like?


----------



## Jose7822

I believe this is what the engine will look like. I dig it!

Why clutter the UI with crammed parameters when you can add pages to mitigate the issue? It makes things easier to find and it looks clean!


----------



## lp59burst

I already own EW HW Strings Diamond but I want to upgrade / crossgrade that to EW HW Orchestra Diamond but there doesn't seem to be any discount for me already owning the strings.

Just the current $372 sale price for the whole orchestra. I guess I could sell the EW HW Strings Diamond... iirc they allow sales / transfers... right?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

lp59burst said:


> I already own EW HW Strings Diamond but I want to upgrade / crossgrade that to EW HW Orchestra Diamond but there doesn't seem to be any discount for me already owning the strings.
> 
> Just the current $372 sale price for the whole orchestra. I guess I could sell the EW HW Strings Diamond... iirc they allow sales / transfers... right?


No, selling is not allowed. Don't be in any rush, no one has any clue what the upgrade prices/paths will be. Purely speculation.


----------



## Gerbil

Jose7822 said:


> I believe this is what the engine will look like. I dig it!
> 
> Why clutter the UI with crammed parameters when you can add pages to mitigate the issue? It makes things easier to find and it looks clean!


I'm not especially bothered about this release as the only things from HW that I use are the 6 horns and 1stV playable runs, but if I was buying then I'd prefer more parameters on display, even if it's a minimal selection. Dividing it like that and having to glance either side doesn't work for me.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

4 days to go...


----------



## Jose7822

Gerbil said:


> I'm not especially bothered about this release as the only things from HW that I use are the 6 horns and 1stV playable runs, but if I was buying then I'd prefer more parameters on display, even if it's a minimal selection. Dividing it like that and having to glance either side doesn't work for me.


You can’t please everyone 🤷🏼‍♂️.


----------



## JyTy

Haha the top line on their webpage was changed from "Coming January 21" to "Watch our NAAM introduction video on Jan 21th" :D hope that doesn't mean more months of waiting...

The copy below states: "After an introduction at online NAMM on January 21, It will be released shortly after ..." Doesn't look like a 21th release to me anymore...


----------



## platixzhang

EW is doing its trick again... It really makes me mad when they change that statement ( coming on 21 Jan ) to what it is now. Seems we have to wait for it.


----------



## Crowe

I don't ever buy any product at launch, I'm quite content with EWHO as it is now.

In a year or so, if it turns out Memory Management is finally a thing, I'll consider upgrading. If there's a sensible upgrade path.

Remember, Hype is only good for companies. Not for end-users.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

platixzhang said:


> EW is doing its trick again... It really makes me mad when they change that statement ( coming on 21 Jan ) to what it is now. Seems we have to wait for it.


The worst part is that they always do it days before the expected release...
And I think they do it purposefully, as not to lose new customers
It is deceptive and they clearly have a soulless marketing department

Cannot just be forthright and update once they know (which I don't doubt was before last week)


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

JyTy said:


> Haha the top line on their webpage was changed from "Coming January 21" to "Watch our NAAM introduction video on Jan 21th" :D hope that doesn't mean more months of waiting...
> 
> The copy below states: "After an introduction at online NAMM on January 21, It will be released shortly after ..." Doesn't look like a 21th release to me anymore...


So currently we can estimate: Coming February 21


----------



## Guffy

What did they do? Still says Jan 21 for me.


----------



## HardyP

purple said:


> I'll NEVER buy a product from Dell again! I bought a computer from them for $2000 in 2006 and now a computer with the same specs costs $200 and fits in my backpack!


a) but you OWN it, and might sell it to a collector, or at least give it as a present to your little niece
b) and it will work even in 15 years (in contrast to your 200$-backpacky-toy)


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Guffy said:


> What did they do? Still says Jan 21 for me.


means nothing. EW is notorious for this, look what happened with Hollywood Choirs.


----------



## X-Bassist

I like that Sonuscore worked on the orchestrator, but who knows how much they did or how much EW is using the name to get people excited. But “Patterns with a length up to 4 bars” seems a little short. Imagine Omni arp only going 4 bars? Surprised they couldn’t extent it. Could really limit the possibilities.

Oh well, I suppose based on EW history it will take a few years for them to make it work smoothly anyway. So Jan 21st, Feb 21st, Aug 21st.... I’ll probably wait until the early adopters stop complaining.


----------



## Mystic

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> So currently we can estimate: Coming February 21


2024


----------



## lp59burst

X-Bassist said:


> I like that Sonuscore worked on the orchestrator, but who knows how much they did or how much EW is using the name to get people excited. But “Patterns with a length up to 4 bars” seems a little short. Imagine Omni arp only going 4 bars? Surprised they couldn’t extent it. Could really limit the possibilities.
> 
> Oh well, I suppose based on EW history it will take a few years for them to make it work smoothly anyway. So Jan 21st, Feb 21st, Aug 21st.... _I’ll probably wait until the early adopters stop complaining. _


That could take years...


----------



## lp59burst

BasariStudios said:


> They became Waves, i own around 20 Libraries which i bought over a Decade
> ago at full prices and today they are worthless, Sound wise and Price wise.
> There is a lot of other great Companies to give money to now.


If you bought a car over a decade ago, unless it's was a rare collectable, it's most likely only worth it's weight in scrap metal by now... you bought somethig ephemeral that doesn't really exist (it's virtual - it only exists as long as there are microprocessors capable of translating those specific 1,0's into something usable - ask anyone trying to use a 32-bit app on a modern OS )

...that's kinda the way things work...


----------



## José Herring

I kind of felt it would be delayed after I finally downloaded my BBCSO update. This update was unreal. EW has to now equal or better it.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

José Herring said:


> I kind of felt it would be delayed after I finally downloaded my BBCSO update. This update was unreal. EW has to now equal or better it.


Well, I still don’t think the brass is on par with EW. The woodwinds, definitely ahead of EW after this latest update.


----------



## José Herring

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Well, I still don’t think the brass is on par with EW. The woodwinds, definitely ahead of EW after this latest update.


No doubt about that. Though H. brass could use better crossfades to take better advantage of the middle dynamics more. That's the sweet spot.


----------



## Piano Pete

At this point the only thing I'm wondering is: will I have to rebuild all of my templates and routing from Play 6 to Opus, or will it conveniently switch over? Haha.


----------



## Wlad

Piano Pete said:


> At this point the only thing I'm wondering is: will I have to rebuild all of my templates and routing from Play 6 to Opus, or will it conveniently switch over? Haha.


We will certainly have to reroute everything cause it is a completely new plugin, but we will not have to redownload old samples, only new ones.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Piano Pete said:


> At this point the only thing I'm wondering is: will I have to rebuild all of my templates and routing from Play 6 to Opus, or will it conveniently switch over? Haha.


I contacted support about this, as I just built a new slave and was about to rebuild my templates in VEPro. They said to wait.


----------



## Jose7822

You’ll probably be able to use your template as is right now with OPUS, but it would mean not really taking advantage of the new patches and features. You COULD add the new patches to your template. But then, what’s the point of having more patches loaded than what’s needed? I for one plan on starting a new template from square one. That’s assuming I’m pleased with what EW will offer in terms of sound, features and PRICE!


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

José Herring said:


> No doubt about that. Though H. brass could use better crossfades to take better advantage of the middle dynamics more. That's the sweet spot.


It does look like this new engine has potential to be able to offer plenty of tweaking to the sound, from what the description says

I hope we get a purge option like Kontakt (I really do)
Among some other things


----------



## I like music

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> It does look like this new engine has potential to be able to offer plenty of tweaking to the sound, from what the descriptions says
> 
> I hope we get a purge option like Kontakt (I really do)
> Among some other things


Purge is the main thing I'm looking for in general for HWO. Its the only reason I can't yet have any of their stuff on my small-RAM machine... Just sitting there collecting dust (absolutely brilliant quality stuff)


----------



## Tremendouz

I like music said:


> Purge is the main thing I'm looking for in general for HWO


Same. Play itself uses a ton of RAM by itself (over 1GB for the first instance, but much less than kontakt for additional ones) so if I'm only going to use a few patches the initial RAM hit makes it hard to justify using Play with 32GB RAM if I'm already running out in big projects.


----------



## Bluemount Score

January 2021 mostly consists of

1) waiting for CSW (done)
2) waiting for that 1.2 BBCSO update (done)
3) waiting for HOOPUS


----------



## Geomir

Bluemount Score said:


> January 2021 mostly consists of
> 
> 1) waiting for CSW (done)
> 2) waiting for that 1.2 BBCSO update (done)
> 3) waiting for HOOPUS


After 1 year... January 2022 mostly consists of

1) waiting for CSP
2) waiting for that 1.3 BBCSO update
3) waiting for HOOPUS


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Geomir said:


> After 1 year... January 2022 mostly consists of
> 
> 1) waiting for CSP
> 2) waiting for that 1.3 BBCSO update
> 3) waiting for HOOPUS


And waiting for 8DIO Century Woodwinds and...

8DIO Century Percussion (likely 2023 though)


----------



## Frederick

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> And waiting for 8DIO Century Woodwinds and...
> 
> 8DIO Century Percussion (likely 2023 though)


Not to mention 8Dio Studio Quartet Series Deep Solo Bass. They told us that it was finished when the Deep Solo Viola was released.


----------



## Secret Soundworks

Seems it will be revealed on the 22nd, going by the NAMM schedule


----------



## I like music

Secret Soundworks said:


> Seems it will be revealed on the 22nd, going by the NAMM schedule


Is that West Coast time?


----------



## Geomir

I like music said:


> Is that West Coast time?


This must be EastWest Coast time.

But seriously now, good question.


----------



## I like music

Geomir said:


> This must be EastWest Coast time.
> 
> But seriously now, good question.


Set myself up for that one!


----------



## jamieboo

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> And waiting for 8DIO Century Woodwinds and...
> 
> 8DIO Century Percussion (likely 2023 though)


London Symphony Orchestra by SwallowWater Audio.


----------



## SupremeFist

Also waiting for the promised update to the very beautiful but flawed Light & Sound Concert Grand...


----------



## cqd

SupremeFist said:


> Also waiting for the promised update to the very beautiful but flawed Light & Sound Concert Grand...


????

Why did you say that?..Is it imminent like?..

I LOVE that piano..


----------



## SupremeFist

cqd said:


> ????
> 
> Why did you say that?..Is it imminent like?..
> 
> I LOVE that piano..


I don't know about imminent but the developer confirmed he was working on it some time ago.


----------



## cqd

SupremeFist said:


> I don't know about imminent but the developer confirmed he was working on it some time ago.


Oh.. right..jeez, you nearly gave me a heart attack there.. thought it was being released at namm for a minute..


----------



## SupremeFist

cqd said:


> Oh.. right..jeez, you nearly gave me a heart attack there.. thought it was being released at namm for a minute..


Ha, probably not. But yes I love that piano too and would like to record more with it, but there are a few weird notes that are a pain to work around at the moment...


----------



## Secret Soundworks

I like music said:


> Is that West Coast time?


It says in their FAQ that the times I'm seeing is based on my device's timezone. I'm Central European Standard Time (GMT+1), so I'm guessing it's 7 PM GMT+1 / CEST, you can convert that to your timezone.


----------



## I like music

Secret Soundworks said:


> It says in their FAQ that the times I'm seeing is based on my device's timezone. I'm Central European Standard Time (GMT+1), so I'm guessing it's 7 PM GMT+1 / CEST, you can convert that to your timezone.


Ah, good spot! I'm in the UK here so a reasonable time


----------



## muziksculp

I have EW : HS, HW, HB all Diamond versions, but I don't have H.Percussion. Although I don't use these libraries. But I might do if Hoopus, and their new OPUS Player are a big improvement over the current PLAY and the way the libraries are organized.

So, would I benefit by buying HP Diamond, to complete the HOrch. set, to get a better upgrade deal to Hoopus ? or would my current EW-Libraries be good enough to get a good deal on the upgrade to Hoopus ?


----------



## Wlad

muziksculp said:


> I have EW : HS, HW, HB all Diamond versions, but I don't have H.Percussion. Although I don't use these libraries. But I might do if Hoopus, and their new OPUS Player are a big improvement over the current PLAY and the way the libraries are organized.
> 
> So, would I benefit by buying HP Diamond, to complete the HOrch. set, to get a better upgrade deal to Hoopus ? or would my current EW-Libraries be good enough ?


As EastWest announced, you need to have Hollywood Orchestra Diamond in order to benefit from the Opus upgrade. As for the Hollywood Percussion Diamond... quality of samples is great, but the most annoying thing about them for me is that your midi note must last as long as the sample itself or the audio will be cut off at the note's end. To make matters worse, EW announced that there won't be any updates on Percussion section in the Opus update.


----------



## Kevinside

hmmm not 21? its 22???

EW is soooo clear with their dates...


----------



## muziksculp

Wlad said:


> As EastWest announced, you need to have Hollywood Orchestra Diamond in order to benefit from the Opus upgrade.


I see. Since the Hollywood Orchestra Diamond includes Hollywood Percussion, that means I need to own the Hollywood Perc. as well to benefit from the Opus Upgrade.

I'm not sure if I will bother getting Hoopus, since I have other great sounding options, but I was just curious if the Upgrade to Hoopus pricing for me would be attractive, but given that I have to purchase Hollywood Perc, plus pay for an upgrade to Hoopus, I think I will wait and see what Hoopus offers before spending more $ on their products.


----------



## borisb2

Wlad said:


> As EastWest announced, you need to have Hollywood Orchestra Diamond in order to benefit from the Opus upgrade.


only have HWS and HWB diamond .. wont buy anything now but wait and see how Opus sounds .. I'm sure there will be a way to upgrade .. if not so be it - we have enough options


----------



## muziksculp

Wlad said:


> but the most annoying thing about them for me is that your midi note must last as long as the sample itself or the audio will be cut off at the note's end. To make matters worse, EW announced that there won't be any updates on Percussion section in the Opus update.


That's very odd. Why would they implement a Perc. library like that ? 

I'm glad I didn't bother buying Hollywood Perc., and since this will also be the issue in Hoopus, that's not encouraging info. as far as Hoopus is concerned.


----------



## Wlad

Opus won't bring big change to the table, so you guys are smart for taking your time with the upgrade. Opus will probably be at 60% off next Black Friday, so you will be able to buy it without any need for an upgrade for around 400$. My template is built around Hollywood Orchestra Diamond and I'm eager to see what has changed. Even the smallest updates in same places can go a long way for me and my workflow.


----------



## dcoscina

Hmm, according to my schedule it's going to be discussed on Friday, Jan 22.


----------



## Wlad

dcoscina said:


> Hmm, according to my schedule it's going to be discussed on Friday, Jan 22.


Yes, it's a time difference. For USA and Sought America consumers it is Jan 21.


----------



## EgM

muziksculp said:


> That's very odd. Why would they implement a Perc. library like that ?
> 
> I'm glad I didn't bother buying Hollywood Perc., and since this will also be the issue in Hoopus, that's not encouraging info. as far as Hoopus is concerned.



That's inaccurate, samples release as they should, just tried with Bdrum/snare/timpani and they all work as intended. If one wanted a longer release, you could always edit the ADSR and set it to whatever you want.


----------



## Wlad

EgM said:


> That's inaccurate, samples release as they should, just tried with Bdrum/snare/timpani and they all work as intended. If one wanted a longer release, you could always edit the ADSR and set it to whatever you want.


Yes, you are completely right. Sorry for the misinformation, I haven't used the library for a long time. The troubles that I have with it are actually Snare, Bass Drum and Timpani rolls, and Cymbal Sus. They are cut off unnaturally, without the scripted end sample unlike it is the case with VSL Synchron Percussion, Berlin Percussion or Loops De La Creme cymbals, for an example. If you increase the release time, it just sounds even weirder.


----------



## EgM

Wlad said:


> Yes, you are completely right. Sorry for the misinformation, I haven't used the library for a long time. The troubles that I have with it are actually Snare, Bass Drum and Timpani rolls, and Cymbal Sus. They are cut off unnaturally, without the scripted end sample unlike it is the case with VSL Synchron Percussion, Berlin Percussion or Loops De La Creme cymbals, for an example. If you increase the release time, it just sounds even weirder.



It's not doing that here, maybe corrupted samples or patches, I'd delete and reinstall if I were you because it works perfectly here.


----------



## Wlad

EgM said:


> It's not doing that here, maybe corrupted samples or patches, I'd delete and reinstall if I were you because it works perfectly here.


Lets not turn this into a HO Percussion topic, but it is not corrupted samples, it is an old scripting on EW end... and not only them, almost all older percussion libraries have the same problem with unnatural rolls, unless you don't hold them till the end or if you are using tremolo roll. Only till recently, libraries did not use scripted end roll hit. I guess you are not using percussion that much so you are not familiar with the problem. Try to do a roll on your table and see how it should be ended naturally, with an accented hit. Or have a look at a Synchron Timpani II Wlakthough on YouTube and compare it with the HOP rolls.


----------



## axb312

Wlad said:


> As EastWest announced, you need to have Hollywood Orchestra Diamond in order to benefit from the Opus upgrade. As for the Hollywood Percussion Diamond... quality of samples is great, but the most annoying thing about them for me is that your midi note must last as long as the sample itself or the audio will be cut off at the note's end. To make matters worse, EW announced that there won't be any updates on Percussion section in the Opus update.


I believe it's no new content for the Percussion session. I just wished it was better mixed out of the box. Hope they do that. Annoying resonances and low end boominess is present all over.


----------



## Kevinside

ok i forget the 21...cause its 22...ok no problem...
but why did ew say, that 21 Jan is the date we are all looking for...

As i can see HERE... There are so many people using HWO...Why is EW doing this to their loyal customers...

I bought EWQLSO Platinum for the full price in the past...Later i paid a lot to get HWO... 
Only to see, that EW is the best fake company, we´ve ever had...

I think HWO Diamond users like me are forced to pay a high price to get 200gb new material and this magical Opus thing... What a great time,we are living in...


----------



## Audio Birdi

Kevinside said:


> ok i forget the 21...cause its 22...ok no problem...
> but why did ew say, that 21 Jan is the date we are all looking for...
> 
> As i can see HERE... There are so many people using HWO...Why is EW doing this to their loyal customers...
> 
> I bought EWQLSO Platinum for the full price in the past...Later i paid a lot to get HWO...
> Only to see, that EW is the best fake company, we´ve ever had...
> 
> I think HWO Diamond users like me are forced to pay a high price to get 200gb new material and this magical Opus thing... What a great time,we are living in...


I have a feeling that they'll release a video in the 21st then go into more depth say Namm on the 22nd. Or have that same video on 21st and at NAMM too


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Tremendouz said:


> Same. Play itself uses a ton of RAM by itself (over 1GB for the first instance, but much less than kontakt for additional ones) so if I'm only going to use a few patches the initial RAM hit makes it hard to justify using Play with 32GB RAM if I'm already running out in big projects.


This is the very reason I have a Windows slave machine (to host my whole Hollywood Orchestra Diamond)


----------



## Evans

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> This is the very reason I have a Windows slave machine (to host my whole Hollywood Orchestra Diamond)


I run EWHO on a secondary machine, too. I'm hoping that I have no interest in the new Orchestrator, because I don't see how MIDI Export (probably the same drag-and-drop as The Orchestra Complete?) would work across the server like that.


----------



## Kabraxis

So looking at the last 40 pages of this thread, I see lots of "hope"s, "expectation"s and "idea"s thrown around. So there's no way that Opus, Orchestrator or new material, whatever they turn out to be, satisfy all the people here. Even for me, I just "want" to OPUS to perform better than PLAY.

Looks like EW's policy of letting people speculate for a long time to build hype is hurting their brand even further.


----------



## muziksculp

It would be useful if there was an option to upgrade from Hollywood Strings Diamond to Hollywood Strings OPUS. But sadly, I don't think that's going to be an option, or could it be ?


----------



## Michael Antrum

I have no idea, but I'm also willing to bet that we won't get any answers tomorrow either. 

I think it's highly likely that we'll get the product announcement, a bit of a demo/walkthrough, and then that magic word.........

'Soon'.


----------



## José Herring

Evans said:


> I run EWHO on a secondary machine, too. I'm hoping that I have no interest in the new Orchestrator, because I don't see how MIDI Export (probably the same drag-and-drop as The Orchestra Complete?) would work across the server like that.


It's okay really. Auto orchestrators are for the weak anyway. Play your midi in the old fashion way.


----------



## Evans

José Herring said:


> It's okay really. Auto orchestrators are for the weak anyway. Play your midi in the old fashion way.


Yes, they're typically not my thing, and the only products remotely close to this that I have would be the Komplete drum libraries with pre-made "grooves." Those are welcome, since I'm highly uneducated on non-orchestral drum sets.

Still, I'm more morbidly curious how it will turn out and have a vague hope that the Orchestrator _won't_ catch my eye, in the same way that I use a recipe book.

"These beer braised short ribs with potatoes and carrots look good. But, I think I'll use red wine, mashed cauliflower, and parsnips."


----------



## muziksculp

Anyone know if Hoopus can be installed in four independent sections with four separate licenses, so it can be installed on separate (i.e four SSDs) for the Strings, Brass, Woods, Perc), or it is a just one large, contiguous sample content that needs to be installed on a single SSD ?


----------



## method1

Just raising this concern now as I have just had an issue where all access to my gold library projects has been lost due to upgrading to cloud plus.

If we "upgrade" to HOOPUS, does that mean similar loss of access to projects using Diamond?


----------



## José Herring

Evans said:


> Yes, they're typically not my thing, and the only products remotely close to this that I have would be the Komplete drum libraries with pre-made "grooves." Those are welcome, since I'm highly uneducated on non-orchestral drum sets.
> 
> Still, I'm more morbidly curious how it will turn out and have a vague hope that the Orchestrator _won't_ catch my eye, in the same way that I use a recipe book.
> 
> "These beer braised short ribs with potatoes and carrots look good. But, I think I'll use red wine, mashed cauliflower, and parsnips."


I was mostly joking. I've heard those prefabbed orchestrators and for the basic stuff it isn't bad. But, in all honestly, I can't see myself dialing in the "Lord of the Rings" preset or something like that.


----------



## Audio Birdi

We will have answers tomorrow, I checked out EastWest's NAMM sessions and it showed me this. This is UK-time, in like 24 hours from me posting this


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> Anyone know if Hoopus can be installed in four independent sections with four separate licenses, so it can be installed on separate (i.e four SSDs) for the Strings, Brass, Woods, Perc), or it is a just one large, contiguous sample content that needs to be installed on a single SSD ?


Don't know about HOOPUS, but HWO lets you install on separate drives. The installer lets you relocate the sections if you move them. I'm thinking if they plan on allowing the use of the current diamond library in OPUS, the new library should be set up similarly?


----------



## Tremendouz

José Herring said:


> I was mostly joking. I've heard those prefabbed orchestrators and for the basic stuff it isn't bad. But, in all honestly, I can't see myself dialing in the "Lord of the Rings" preset or something like that.


I think they (eg. Sonuscore The Orchestra) are more useful for kickstarting inspiration. By selecting a random preset and playing some chords you can discover textures and rhythms you wouldn't even think about trying otherwise.


----------



## muziksculp

Audio Birdi said:


> We will have answers tomorrow, I checked out EastWest's NAMM sessions and it showed me this. This is UK-time, in like 24 hours from me posting this


It says from 7:10 PM to 7:20 PM, so 10 minutes only to show us Hoopus tomorrow ?


----------



## José Herring

Tremendouz said:


> I think they (eg. Sonuscore The Orchestra) are more useful for kickstarting inspiration. By selecting a random preset and playing some chords you can discover textures and rhythms you wouldn't even think about trying otherwise.


I'm curious to check out The Orchestra now.


----------



## dzilizzi

Audio Birdi said:


> We will have answers tomorrow, I checked out EastWest's NAMM sessions and it showed me this. This is UK-time, in like 24 hours from me posting this


What I'm hoping for with the orchestrator is that it lets you do more than the 5 parts you can currently do with Sonuscore's engine.


----------



## Tremendouz

José Herring said:


> I'm curious to check out The Orchestra now.


The engine is basically a fancy arpeggiator where you can assign patches to 5 slots and set each to follow either arpeggiator 1, 2, 3 or then "envelope" 1, 2 (basically long note that you draw the dynamic curve for). Then, each arp/envelope lets you choose whether to utilize all the notes in the chords you play, or only the top notes, or the bottom...

It's indeed not great for elaborate stuff but there are some interesting textures.

The system is indeed limited to 5 patches per instance but there are also multi presets available where there are several 5 patch sets layered on top of each other.


----------



## José Herring

Tremendouz said:


> The engine is basically a fancy arpeggiator where you can assign patches to 5 slots and set each to follow either arpeggiator 1, 2, 3 or then "envelope" 1, 2 (basically long note that you draw the dynamic curve for). Then, each arp/envelope lets you choose whether to utilize all the notes in the chords you play, or only the top notes, or the bottom...
> 
> It's indeed not great for elaborate stuff but there are some interesting textures.
> 
> The system is indeed limited to 5 patches per instance but there are also multi presets available where there are several 5 patch sets layered on top of each other.


Yeah, I've been looking at it. It doesn't sound particularly good but it does have some combinations that normally wouldn't be thought of. Kind of cool.


----------



## dzilizzi

José Herring said:


> Yeah, I've been looking at it. It doesn't sound particularly good but it does have some combinations that normally wouldn't be thought of. Kind of cool.


Part of the problem is the Sonuscore orchestra is just okay. I'm hoping using the better sound of HWO, the sound would be better.


----------



## dcoscina

muziksculp said:


> It says from 7:10 PM to 7:20 PM, so 10 minutes only to show us Hoopus tomorrow ?


it's going to be played at 320bpm.


----------



## José Herring

muziksculp said:


> It says from 7:10 PM to 7:20 PM, so 10 minutes only to show us Hoopus tomorrow ?


I'm a big EW fan boy but I have to admit the roll out to HOOPUS is probably one of the more painful launches I've seen. I've spent the money I've set aside for HOOPUS three times already 

But, when released, if it's good and no doubt it will be, I'm still getting it.


----------



## EgM

All I want out out of it is just assign keyswitches, the moods thing I don't really care for. Orchestrator is not something I would use


----------



## cqd

José Herring said:


> I'm a big EW fan boy but I have to admit the roll out to HOOPUS is probably one of the more painful launches I've seen. I've spent the money I've set aside for HOOPUS three times already
> 
> But, when released, if it's good and no doubt it will be, I'm still getting it.


Really?..

Like, they announced it..said it would be fall..released a teaser..

admittedly it was a month late, but I'd hardly call it painful..

Don't blame your spending issues on East west..


----------



## José Herring

cqd said:


> Really?..
> 
> Like, they announced it..said it would be fall..released a teaser..
> 
> admittedly it was a month late, but I'd hardly call it painful..
> 
> Don't blame your spending issues on East west..


Wow, you took my little quip way too seriously. 

As far as I can tell it doesn't appear that the release will be tomorrow either so I was making a little light hearted joke about it. I wasn't blaming EW for anything really, they're going to do what they're going to do. 

It's just been painful for me because I want it. When they annouced some time last spring that it would be a "fall" release I thought it meant you know, Octoberish.


----------



## cqd

Ah yeah..I'm still traumatized since the pre/post bbcso release, and have gotten somewhat used to waiting with csb/csw..so this has been handy..

Once they don't fnck us over on the upgrade price..


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Audio Birdi said:


> We will have answers tomorrow, I checked out EastWest's NAMM sessions and it showed me this. This is UK-time, in like 24 hours from me posting this


7-7:30PM for us UKers...

Just before/after dinner then!
A nice time to process it while my food goes down...


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

muziksculp said:


> It says from 7:10 PM to 7:20 PM, so 10 minutes only to show us Hoopus tomorrow ?


10 minutes is a long time if you move quick


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

So they are doing two introductions then it appears

One will be only 10 minutes and the other one tomorrow, will be 1 hour!
So that will be the proper showcase, with today's just for wetting appetites, unless of course they could not get the people they need to walkthrough it on the first day

More people are signed up for tomorrows session as well

Oh boy, marketing tricks all round!


----------



## I like music

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> So they are doing two introductions then it appears
> 
> One will be only 10 minutes and the other one tomorrow, will be 1 hour!
> So that will be the proper showcase, with today's just for wetting appetites, unless of course they could not get the people they need to walkthrough it on the first day
> 
> More people are signed up for tomorrows session as well
> 
> Oh boy, marketing tricks all round!


Wait. I signed up to today's session because I got an email about it. How do we go about signing up for tomorrow's?


----------



## Tremendouz

Good gravy, I just finished downloading Hollywood Strings and with a quick search it seems like the library uses like 10 different CCs for different things, and none are listed in the UI... I really hope the patches will display them in the Opus engine.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

I like music said:


> Wait. I signed up to today's session because I got an email about it. How do we go about signing up for tomorrow's?


I signed up for the Believe In Music event
And on the EastWest Brand page the list of sessions they are doing are listed

So I added those events as Calendar events on the site


----------



## ennbr

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> So they are doing two introductions then it appears
> 
> One will be only 10 minutes and the other one tomorrow, will be 1 hour!
> So that will be the proper showcase, with today's just for wetting appetites, unless of course they could not get the people they need to walkthrough it on the first day
> 
> More people are signed up for tomorrows session as well
> 
> Oh boy, marketing tricks all round!


I would expect that today is an intro or overview being only 10 mins has been allocated and tomorrow well be a deep dive according to the description with over an hour devoted to the developers talks


----------



## I like music

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I signed up for the Believe In Music event
> And on the EastWest Brand page the list of sessions they are doing are listed
> 
> So I added those events as Calendar events on the site


Perfect thanks!


----------



## Trevor Meier

Bluemount Score said:


> January 2021 mostly consists of
> 
> 1) waiting for CSW (done)
> 2) waiting for that 1.2 BBCSO update (done)
> 3) waiting for HOOPUS


4) waiting for MSS...


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

ennbr said:


> I would expect that today is an intro or overview being only 10 mins has been allocated and tomorrow well be a deep dive according to the description with over an hour devoted to the developers talks


This made me chuckle...

You replied to my comment by saying what I said in different words 

Nevertheless, thanks for the cliarification


----------



## Gerbil

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> 7-7:30PM for us UKers...
> 
> Just before/after dinner then!
> A nice time to process it while my food goes down...


Hopefully the upgrade price doesn't make you bring it back up!


----------



## Dudsworth

Could somebody post a link to the webpage where you can sign up to watch the intro video please....I’ve checked east west’s website and cannot find the page


----------



## rlundv

*REGISTER FOR NAMM FOR FREE - CLICK HERE*

The "Introducing Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition" video premiere will be shown on NAMM's GearTV schedule tomorrow, January 21th, at 11:10 AM Pacific. Register for NAMM for free here: https://attend.believeinmusic.tv.

Once registered, GearTV can be found at the top of the page and by clicking here: https://app.swapcard.com/event/believe-in-music/planningslive/RXZlbnRWaWV3Xzk2NjI4


----------



## Dudsworth

beyd770 said:


> *REGISTER FOR NAMM FOR FREE - CLICK HERE*
> 
> The "Introducing Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition" video premiere will be shown on NAMM's GearTV schedule tomorrow, January 21th, at 11:10 AM Pacific. Register for NAMM for free here: https://attend.believeinmusic.tv.
> 
> Once registered, GearTV can be found at the top of the page and by clicking here: https://app.swapcard.com/event/believe-in-music/planningslive/RXZlbnRWaWV3Xzk2NjI4


Much appreciated!


----------



## mcalis

Eh, I really don't feel like making yet another account at some site for a 10 minute announcement. I'll wait and see what people will comment here I guess, though historically, posts after events are often quite inaccurate because of misunderstandings. Oh well.


----------



## dzilizzi

mcalis said:


> Eh, I really don't feel like making yet another account at some site for a 10 minute announcement. I'll wait and see what people will comment here I guess, though historically, posts after events are often quite inaccurate because of misunderstandings. Oh well.


They will probably release it as a YouTube Video right after.


----------



## koolkeys

So I tried to read back several pages, and didn't see any updates. But was it announced that today's NAMM thing would only be another announcement, or is OPUS actually supposed to be released today? 

Brent


----------



## Piano Pete

I would assume it to be just an announcement.


----------



## dzilizzi

Looks like a walkthrough tomorrow though. They have an hour at 10 am Pacific Time. (I can never remember if we are on daylight savings or standard time anymore)


----------



## Guffy

Tremendouz said:


> Good gravy, I just finished downloading Hollywood Strings and with a quick search it seems like the library uses like 10 different CCs for different things, and none are listed in the UI... I really hope the patches will display them in the Opus engine.


It depends what patches you use.
CC1 = Vibrato
CC11 = Dynamics
Those are the main ones you'll use. I forgot which CC is standard for the finger position knob, but you might wanna get used to that as well if you use those patches.

If you use the lite patches you can just use CC1 like with any lib.


----------



## Johnny

Weird how quiet they've been though... There was a lot more buzz around the HW Choir build up and release... Hoop'is not gunna be a flop...


----------



## I like music

Johnny said:


> Weird how quiet they've been though... There was a lot more buzz around the HW Choir build up and release... Hoop'is not gunna be a flop...


Maybe they're so confident that they don't need to egg it up (I'm hoping that's what it is!!!)


----------



## VSriHarsha

dzilizzi said:


> Looks like a walkthrough tomorrow though. They have an hour at 10 am Pacific Time. (I can never remember if we are on daylight savings or standard time anymore)


I think today they gonna make the walkthru of their Opus?

Have you read about it? The technicians behind its make. I am telling you if nothing can come as close & friendly as this, chances are the present & future devs may have their libraries ported to. But am sure it won’t be as lazy as Play.


----------



## dzilizzi

VSriHarsha said:


> I think today they gonna make the walkthru of their Opus?
> 
> Have you read about it? The technicians behind its make. I am telling you if nothing can come as close & friendly as this, chances are the present & future devs may have their libraries ported to. But am sure it won’t be as lazy as Play.


Just what everyone else has seen. Nothing much recently. There's not much on the NAMM site.


----------



## I like music

So can I just confirm/understand something? I lost track of the following, but is it the same core _team_ that did Brass and Strings? I remember reading about there being some changes for the woodwinds (but cannot remember what that was all about).


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Johnny said:


> Weird how quiet they've been though... There was a lot more buzz around the HW Choir build up and release... Hoop'is not gunna be a flop...


And look how long HW Choir was delayed! Here’s hoping...


----------



## dzilizzi

I like music said:


> So can I just confirm/understand something? I lost track of the following, but is it the same core _team_ that did Brass and Strings? I remember reading about there being some changes for the woodwinds (but cannot remember what that was all about).


Thomas Bergersen was on the original team for HWO along with everyone who is on the current team. From what I understand, there was some sort of disagreement during the making of the winds that resulted in the winds not ending up being as good as the strings and brass. This was before my time with these libraries. I don't really use the winds much because I bought BWW before them. 

Hopefully, they have fixed whatever issues people had with them. I'm just hoping it is easier to use. I mostly understand their naming convention, but using SSW or BWW is sooooo much easier than trying to figure out HW_CL_LL_8va_xxx -- I don't know, it is not in front of me, but some of the file names are longer than Windows allows and never got copied to my SSD.


----------



## Johnny

I like music said:


> So can I just confirm/understand something? I lost track of the following, but is it the same core _team_ that did Brass and Strings? I remember reading about there being some changes for the woodwinds (but cannot remember what that was all about).


As far as I know, it's Nick and Shawn Murphy, but no Thomas... Doug's name on it however, I'm not entire sure how hands on Doug is/was in the engineering and production of the original HW series and now Opus.


----------



## Kabraxis

So, EW's NAMM 2021 "Spaces II Walkthrough" session was just a link to a 2018 video at YouTube...


----------



## Mystic

Kabraxis said:


> So, EW's NAMM 2021 "Spaces II Walkthrough" session was just a link to a 2018 video at YouTube...


This doesn't surprise me at all.


----------



## RogiervG

Mystic said:


> This doesn't surprise me at all.


Those walkthroughs are just there to watch in case you haven't seen them. (placeholder vids)


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

dzilizzi said:


> They will probably release it as a YouTube Video right after.


Or they will release it even before it starts :/


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Meanwhile... over at the NAMM channel


----------



## RogiervG

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Or they will release it even before it starts :/



lol, some intern must have accidentally pressed the publish button


----------



## Kabraxis

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Or they will release it even before it starts :/



Wow, man. You're really good with giving spoilers


----------



## JyTy

This looks really awesome!!! Looking forward to get this... hope we'll be able to get our hands on it this year :D


----------



## erikradbo

They do manage to talk it up quite a bit. And it looks and sounds REALLY nice - in the trailer.

Just as with the trailer for Hollywood Choirs, it feels aimed towards home composers rather than professionals. I'm not a professional myself, but it feels "consumer" in some way. Not the product, but the trailer.


----------



## Evans

I don't have Composer Cloud and perhaps won't ever, but "if you have CC and don't have an instrument you want, download just that one from the Opus interface without getting the entire library" (paraphrasing) is quite lovely.


----------



## RogiervG

too bad it doesn't have much walkthrough parts in it. (short sound snippets, played live e.g.) or how that single instrument download works.. etc.. 
Quite a bit of talk, barely any sound of the product showcased directly.


----------



## Pablocrespo

so, no upgrade price yet?


----------



## NoamL

"many engineers have told us this is the best brass room in the world"






Nick it's not even the third best sounding brass room in Los Angeles!

I may get this anyway... but the marketing... just show us a walkthrough, please


----------



## pandamacion

The page says the release will be “shortly after” the intro video. Today, tomorrow, a month from now, what are we thinking?


----------



## topijokinen

Looks great! Webpage says "Get notified when Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition is released, sign up below:".

Looks like we're gonna have to wait for some time still :D


----------



## RogiervG

pandamacion said:


> The page says the release will be “shortly after” the intro video. Today, tomorrow, a month from now, what are we thinking?


nobody but EW/QL knows.... we got to have patience...


----------



## gst98

Purge!


----------



## BRVLN

I was really looking forward to this...
I don't feel like I have more info than I had when they uploaded the product page.
No release date, pricing, demos....
Just vague claims about the product. A lot of potential, but no tangible information...

Also, I *really* hope they fixed the WW legatos in the solo woodwinds cause... DAMN!


----------



## erikradbo

"Other collections were coming and they've done...some things better"


----------



## Kabraxis

So what about all these buttons up there, finally EW is enabling us to use OPUS to create our own sample libs?


----------



## ennbr

Still no pricing or release date


----------



## pandamacion

RogiervG said:


> nobody but EW/QL knows.... we got to have patience...


My patience was exhausted by CSW. I’m afraid I don’t have any left.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

gst98 said:


> Purge!


YAYYY


----------



## rlundv

RogiervG said:


> too bad it doesn't have much walkthrough parts in it. (short sound snippets, played live e.g.) or how that single instrument download works.. etc..
> Quite a bit of talk, barely any sound of the product showcased directly.


1 hour walkthrough Friday, January 22, 2021 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

NoamL said:


> "many engineers have told us this is the best brass room in the world"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nick it's not even the third best sounding brass room in Los Angeles!
> 
> I may get this anyway... but the marketing... just show us a walkthrough, please


Walkthrough is tomorrow


----------



## Evans

gst98 said:


> Purge!


Looks like a great job of ensuring that every 20 pixels reminds you of how much RAM is in use.

But seriously, I wonder if there's a difference.


----------



## RogiervG

beyd770 said:


> 1 hour walkthrough starting in 22 hours 32 mins.


yeah i know.. but for a first introduction, at least give us some little tiny piece of demonstration.
(a preset, or that orchestrator pattern e.g. ) just something... 
and why don't they provide info on that walkthrough video, that is up coming?


----------



## gst98

They didn’t mention it, so I hope it is more sophisticated than the current system. But this all looks amazing. That key switch system looks so much more comprehensive and simple than anyone else’s out there. The UI looks so clean and simple! And what are these new mic positions? (Edge)


----------



## Spaddie

Still a shame they haven't attacked any of the solo woodwinds from HW.


----------



## RogiervG

Spaddie said:


> Still a shame they haven't attacked any of the solo woodwinds from HW.


They did though (read the text on the product), but how exactly is vague.. but also added ensemble patches.


----------



## Johnny

Kabraxis said:


> So what about all these buttons up there, finally EW is enabling us to use OPUS to create our own sample libs?


Preset reverbs and processing would be cool, like what 8Dio Century series wanted to do in the original podcasts but didn't have the scope I guess? I recall Troels thinking it would be cool to have custom mixes, but I guess JXL Brass did do this. Hooping Hoopus does this too.


----------



## mohsohsenshi

We'd like to hear how is the sound in true project, we need a clear walkthrough of all patches, how does they improve the workflow and organisation of articulations, and the pricing/upgrade path for existent customers.
I don't care about info like "recorded in the studio which has 150000 grammy nominations".


----------



## Spaddie

RogiervG said:


> They did though (read the text on the product), but how exactly is vague.. but also added ensemble patches.


In the video didn't Nick Phoenix say that they only added ensemble patches for the WW? I might be completely wrong. At least that was what was _implied_...


----------



## Breaker

Tons of marketing lingo and pretty words but not much of actual facts so far. 
Though Doug kind of implies that all old libraries can be used in Opus Player as well (hopefully with the custom keyswitching).


----------



## artomatic

Silly me. I was under the impression that these were *all* new samples!


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

To me the brass in the beginning sounded like a tutti patch from a keyboard. Although I guess it might be a programming and mixing issue.


----------



## Gerbil

"The level of control is......unparalleled"

"Yeah, we've got keyswitches"

Welcome to the 19th century, guys.


----------



## José Herring

Evans said:


> Looks like a great job of ensuring that every 20 pixels reminds you of how much RAM is in use.
> 
> But seriously, I wonder if there's a difference.


Is that for the whole thing or just that one patch?


----------



## Audio Birdi

from their YouTube video:
"We're close to release! There's additional new features and content we are adding that we think everyone will be very excited about. In the meantime, stay tuned for the imminent release of the official trailer, walkthroughs, and more exclusive sneak peaks."


----------



## José Herring

Gerbil said:


> "The level of control is......unparalleled"
> 
> "Yeah, we've got keyswitches"
> 
> Welcome to the 19th century, guys.


It was the 20th century and the 90's was a good time. Good, good times.


----------



## RogiervG

Audio Birdi said:


> from their YouTube video:
> "We're close to release! There's additional new features and content we are adding that we think everyone will be very excited about. In the meantime, stay tuned for the imminent release of the official trailer, walkthroughs, and more exclusive sneak peaks."


ok. release will be april/may, "sneak peak" videos indicate a not imminent release date..


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Hmm. So I thought, fine, I'll bite and go get an annual subscription to CC Plus. I registered for an account, put the membership in my shopping cart, and hit check out. Which just refreshes the page. There is no info on what went wrong, what I need to do before I can complete my purchase.

It makes me nervous when a company is not competent enough to take my money when offered.


----------



## dzilizzi

NoamL said:


> "many engineers have told us this is the best brass room in the world"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nick it's not even the third best sounding brass room in Los Angeles!
> 
> I may get this anyway... but the marketing... just show us a walkthrough, please


I guess it depends on your "world"

"many engineers have told us this is the best brass room in the world"*

*"Rooms available to EW to record in: 2
Size of "the world": 2 rooms
Using the best room available: (selects one)"


----------



## RogiervG

mopsiflopsi said:


> Hmm. So I thought, fine, I'll bite and go get an annual subscription to CC Plus. I registered for an account, put the membership in my shopping cart, and hit check out. Which just refreshes the page. There is no info on what went wrong, what I need to do before I can complete my purchase.
> 
> It makes me nervous when a company is not competent enough to take my money when offered.


why do you think it's EW/QL's fault/imcompetence? it might just be a fault with the payment provider, or heck it might be your computer/network/browser...


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

i heard a click/pop in the video at the beginning, lol


----------



## Wlad

artomatic said:


> Silly me. I was under the impression that these were *all* new samples!


Don't worry, the upgrade price will be like they are all new samples.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

RogiervG said:


> why do you think it's their fault/imcompetence? it might just be a fault with the payment provider, or heck it might be your computer/network/browser...


Payment providers tend to provide error codes if a transaction fails, which the front end devs (the good ones) usually report to the user. Same with browser incompatibility. If you can't make your store work on the latest version of Chrome, I don't know what to tell you. And in this case, there was no payment information entered, I can't even get to that stage.


----------



## Johnny

artomatic said:


> Silly me. I was under the impression that these were *all* new samples!


Just like The Dark Side, Just like Goliath, just like Hoopus...


----------



## Wlad

mopsiflopsi said:


> Hmm. So I thought, fine, I'll bite and go get an annual subscription to CC Plus. I registered for an account, put the membership in my shopping cart, and hit check out. Which just refreshes the page. There is no info on what went wrong, what I need to do before I can complete my purchase.
> 
> It makes me nervous when a company is not competent enough to take my money when offered.


Just turn off the ad blocker and refresh the whole browser.


----------



## Wlad

NeonMediaKJT said:


> i heard a click/pop in the video at the beginning, lol


I gues they haven't got rid of pops and clicks, and that was one of the reasons I wanted to upgrade in the first place.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Wlad said:


> Just turn off the ad blocker and refresh the whole browser.


Thanks. Reading some of the discussion here I think I'm gonna hold off. I thought the actual release was days away and the promotion looked good but if I'm not going to have access to this for half a year, there's not much point in signing up now.


----------



## RogiervG

mopsiflopsi said:


> Payment providers tend to provide error codes if a transaction fails, which the front end devs (the good ones) usually report to the user. Same with browser incompatibility. If you can't make your store work on the latest version of Chrome, I don't know what to tell you. And in this case, there was no payment information entered, I can't even get to that stage.


Still, there are many variables in play.. So it's premature to immediately blame EW/QL for this. Besides incompetence is a strong accusation to make publically. (you need to proof that, which you cannot at current: again too many variables/parties involved) 

some variables: a fault at the payment provider, problem with the hoster (e.g. loadbalancer xforward-for, routing issue, etc etc), local issue: browser session/cache etc, Problem with some microservice at EW/QL (might not be their fault though, if it's managed by third party), combination of above?
i can think of even more....


----------



## AndyP

Spaddie said:


> Still a shame they haven't attacked any of the solo woodwinds from HW.


I understood that the new recordings are only ensembles. But not that they have not revised the existing patches. I hope so.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

RogiervG said:


> Still, there are many variables in play.. So it's premature to immediately blame EW/QL for this. Besides incompetence is a strong accusation to make publically. (you need to proof that, which you cannot at current: again too many variables/parties involved)
> 
> some variables: a fault at the payment provider, problem with the hoster (e.g. loadbalancer xforward-for, routing issue, etc etc), local issue: browser session/cache etc, Problem with some microservice at EW/QL (might not be their fault though, if it's managed by third party), combination of above?
> i can think of even more....


lol alright. You go to a store, money in hand, to buy something. The door doesn't open, you cannot get in. Maybe it's jammed. Maybe the temperature is too cold and it's frozen, they can't control the weather. Maybe the last person to leave the store accidentally locked it. Maybe the handle broke. Who knows? Who cares? You keep your money in your pocket and move on.


----------



## RogiervG

mopsiflopsi said:


> lol alright. You go to a store, money in hand, to buy something. The door doesn't open, you cannot get in. Maybe it's jammed. Maybe the temperature is too cold and it's frozen, they can't control the temperature. Maybe the last person to leave the store accidentally locked it. Maybe the handle broke. Who knows? Who cares? You keep your money in your pocket and move on.


It's not about what you do in the end with the money.. it's that you immediately start to blame someone/a business for incompetence in public, without overthinking if that's even correct.

Anyway.. not here to overly debate this. Let's continue on topic. *shakes hands*


----------



## gst98

mopsiflopsi said:


> lol alright. You go to a store, money in hand, to buy something. The door doesn't open, you cannot get in. Maybe it's jammed. Maybe the temperature is too cold and it's frozen, they can't control the weather. Maybe the last person to leave the store accidentally locked it. Maybe the handle broke. Who knows? Who cares? You keep your money in your pocket and move on.



Everyone else seemed to get into the store just fine. Did you try pulling or just a push?


----------



## cqd

I'm kind of psyched after that promo..
I'd been half planning on holding off on it for a while..I don't know now though..


----------



## Wlad

It would be nice if they introduced microphone bleed, so you can hear clarinets in the cello's close mic, for example. I know, I'm asking for too much.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

gst98 said:


> Everyone else seemed to get into the store just fine. Did you try pulling or just a push?


Oh man, I must have been hitting the refresh button on the far end of the screen instead of the big red proceed to checkout button. I should take a web 101 refresher. I must be dumb and it's my loss. I'll try and carry on with my life somehow.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

mopsiflopsi said:


> Oh man, I must have been hitting the refresh button on the far end of the screen instead of the big red proceed to checkout button. I should take a web 101 refresher. I must be dumb and it's my loss. I'll try and carry on with my life somehow.


If you use an adblocker it will be that. Had the same issue a few weeks ago and disabling that did it for me 🤷‍♂️


----------



## reutunes

So far I am more excited about the player than the actual samples themselves (which were always great)... but this promo video was unenlightening in the extreme, and on occasion a bit cringe.

The guys don't really give great soundbites, "I hope the users appreciate what we've put into this". Gosh!


----------



## Jaap

Liked the introduction video. It had a nice honest and humble point of view without too much big bla bla bla. 
Looks like they worked really hard on improving both the player and the orchestra and curious to see how it pans out. But all orchestral, ethnic and choir libraries (maybe HOW as an exception) have always been excelent in quality (both the old Kontakt libraries and since the last decade, the PLAY libraries).


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Composer Cloud Plus doesn't sound half bad with their "download individual instruments in real time" implementation now. There's not a ton in CC that I would want to have or use frequently that I don't already own, but if they keep adding good libraries this year, it might be hard to pass up.


----------



## lettucehat

As much as it can be to poke fun and criticize them, they definitely made it clear what the newly recorded material would be, and that they are also going over the existing material. To what extent, who knows until we get to try it out. But I wouldn't assume the WWs haven't been improved just because they didn't re-record them.


----------



## gst98

mopsiflopsi said:


> Oh man, I must have been hitting the refresh button on the far end of the screen instead of the big red proceed to checkout button. I should take a web 101 refresher. I must be dumb and it's my loss. I'll try and carry on with my life somehow.



Relax, these errors happen sometimes. They’ve just had an announcement and probably a lot of traffic and who knows what caused that issue. It will probably be working soon.

Btw I just got through to the payment page just fine, so either it’s back up or it’s not their system causing it.


----------



## Wlad

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Composer Cloud Plus doesn't sound half bad with their "download individual instruments in real time" implementation now. There's not a ton in CC that I would want to have or use frequently that I don't already own, but if they keep adding good libraries this year, it might be hard to pass up.


Yeah, but the thing is many of the professional composers don't have their workstations connected to the internet.


----------



## I like music

I'm disappointed that they didn't say it was next gen.


----------



## reutunes

Wlad said:


> Yeah, but the thing is many of the professional composers don't have their worstations conncected to the internet.


That's one of those "pro composer myths". I know hundreds of composers - only a handful don't connect their work rigs to the internet. Most will be just fine with downloadable instruments.


----------



## AndyP

OPUS now includes the solo instruments. I hope this won't increase the price too much, because I don't really want them.
I have a bit of a fear that the price, even as an update, will be well over the $600 mark. 
And whether the update will justify the price as a diamond owner I can not yet assess. 
The budget I have for OPUS is $600, so if it exceeds that amount, it must be significantly better than HOD.


----------



## jaketanner

reutunes said:


> That's one of those "pro composer myths". I know hundreds of composers - only a handful don't connect their work rigs to the internet. Most will be just fine with downloadable instruments.


They don't connect maybe temporarily because it eats up resources...but everyone is online at some point.


----------



## Pier

Will this be available to buy instead of subscribing?


----------



## Wlad

reutunes said:


> That's one of those "composer myths". I know hundreds of composers - only a handful don't connect their work rigs to the internet. Most will be just fine with downloadable instruments.


It is not a myth at all. If you are working in the industry some companies require assurance that their material won't be compromised. It is up to you to protect your client's investment in you or the material that is given at your disposal.


----------



## Toecutter

Yawn....... 10 minutes later and I learned nothing new. Cool to see Nick and Doug but they basically read the website XD

New violins, 2 trombones, 2 trumpets, bassoons, clarinets and flutes ensembles. This got to be a free update for existing owners, or at least a very aggressive upgrade pricing to compete with Spitfire BBCSO.


----------



## John R Wilson

AndyP said:


> OPUS now includes the solo instruments. I hope this won't increase the price too much, because I don't really want them.
> I have a bit of a fear that the price, even as an update, will be well over the $600 mark.
> And whether the update will justify the price as a diamond owner I can not yet assess.
> The budget I have for OPUS is $600, so if it exceeds that amount, it must be significantly better than HOD.


I have a feeling that it is going to be quite expensive to buy outright/upgrade price from EWHO diamond. I don't like the subscription model but I'm considering just going for the composer cloud plus as I do think this will be the cheapest way to get it. Plus in a years time it will probably end up getting significantly reduced in price or they will have a big sale on it! It is very hard to know what to go for without knowing the pricing and I believe the composer cloud plus 50% off is ending on the 22nd.


----------



## John R Wilson

Toecutter said:


> Yawn....... 10 minutes later and I learned nothing new. Cool to see Nick and Doug but they basically read the website XD
> 
> New violins, 2 trombones, 2 trumpets, bassoons, clarinets and flutes ensembles. This got to be a free update for existing owners, or at least a very aggressive upgrade pricing to compete with Spitfire BBCSO.


Plus it seems like all their libraries are getting this new player upgrade not just OPUS. Does this mean EWHO diamond will just get this new player upgrade anyway and OPUS will be a separate upgrade/expansion with the additional content?


----------



## cqd

I honestly think the reprogrammed woodwinds are going to be up there with the best of them..


----------



## AndyP

John R Wilson said:


> I have a feeling that it is going to be quite expensive to buy outright/upgrade price from EWHO diamond. I don't like the subscription model but I'm considering just going for the composer cloud plus as I do think this will be the cheapest way to get it. Plus in a years time it will probably end up getting significantly reduced in price or they will have a big sale on it! It is very hard to know what to go for without knowing the pricing and I believe the composer cloud plus 50% off is ending on the 22nd.


A supscription model is not for me. I bought the libraries I wanted from EW. Only because of OPUS I will not subscribe afterwards. Too bad that you have to take the whole package ... The price, the price, the price .... hopefully not at the level of 10 years ago.


----------



## AndyP

John R Wilson said:


> Plus it seems like all their libraries are getting this new player upgrade not just OPUS. Does this mean EWHO diamond will just get this new player upgrade anyway and OPUS will be a separate upgrade/expansion with the additional content?



I have also thought about it, but at the moment it does not look like it. For me, the new player would be perfectly adequate (also for a fair upgrade price).


----------



## I like music

cqd said:


> I honestly think the reprogrammed woodwinds are going to be up there with the best of them..


I remember loading them up once and comparing them with Berlin. Legato wasn't nearly as good, but core tone of a few of the instruments, I remember thinking most people wouldn't care or notice one as being superior to the other. 

I wonder if I just misheard. Yeah, I have a feeling they could be quite good!


----------



## cqd

Yeah, I'm the same..the price will decide..

Yeah, with the winds..the tone is definitely there i think..


----------



## Tremendouz

What I'm afraid is that if you don't upgrade, the Opus port of the current Hollywood Diamond will just be the same jungle of single articulation patches we have now but with a new skin...

Would they do that? I sure hope not.


----------



## Evans

Tremendouz said:


> What I'm afraid is that if you don't upgrade, the Opus port of the current Hollywood Diamond will just be the same jungle of single articulation patches we have now but with a new skin...
> 
> Would they do that? I sure hope not.


I would imagine that's exactly what they'd do. If you're not paying, what are you expecting to receive? Any further development, and the carrots start to disappear.

Maybe some "encompasses all libraries" capabilities come with it, like Purge, but I wouldn't expect them to touch actual instruments/patches without the paid upgrade.


----------



## muziksculp

They mentioned that you can download instruments ala carte, i.e. any individual instrument/s you need, if you are a subscriber to their cloud service. That's pretty cool, since you have more control of how much you want to use on your system from their instruments, and a good way to conserve SSD space. Also the new Opus player for all of their older libraries is a big plus. 

I'm thinking that the subscription option is kind of an attractive options, but not sure, I will wait and see what my options, and costs are. Hopefully more detailed videos will be posted soon.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

cqd said:


> I honestly think the reprogrammed woodwinds are going to be up there with the best of them..


The main reason I’ve held off on CSW and the Berlin Revive cross grade.


----------



## John R Wilson

AndyP said:


> A supscription model is not for me. I bought the libraries I wanted from EW. Only because of OPUS I will not subscribe afterwards. Too bad that you have to take the whole package ... The price, the price, the price .... hopefully not at the level of 10 years ago.


Same here, I would prefer to avoid a subscription and would just prefer to buy the upgrade price, I'm not the biggest fan of subscription models hence why I've been holding off going for the Composer Cloud Plus. I've also got the full Hollywood Orchestra Diamond, I've just got a feeling that the initial upgrade price might end up quite a lot more than this $299 composer cloud plus price.


----------



## John R Wilson

AndyP said:


> I have also thought about it, but at the moment it does not look like it. For me, the new player would be perfectly adequate (also for a fair upgrade price).


I agree. The main thing I am interested in and excited about is this new player update.


----------



## HardyP

Hm, many questions remain open.
My guess regarding „Opus for old products“ is, that it will be similar to Play6: small update fee, and free after some time. But with CC in mind it was quite clear, that they need to migrate all products to the new player.


----------



## Johnny

AndyP said:


> A supscription model is not for me. I bought the libraries I wanted from EW. Only because of OPUS I will not subscribe afterwards. Too bad that you have to take the whole package ... The price, the price, the price .... hopefully not at the level of 10 years ago.


It will be a solid $699.99 to $999.99 is my bet... Reduced from $1499.99 2008 prices...


----------



## cqd

The orchestrator looks like it's going to rock ass too..


----------



## Tremendouz

Evans said:


> I would imagine that's exactly what they'd do. If you're not paying, what are you expecting to receive? Any further development, and the carrots start to disappear.
> 
> Maybe some "encompasses all libraries" capabilities come with it, like Purge, but I wouldn't expect them to touch actual instruments/patches without the paid upgrade.


The thing is, I would love to have my current instruments updated to be more user-friendly. I don't need the solo instruments (harp, cello, violin) nor hundreds of gigabytes of new recordings so if they're going to lock any improvements behind having to buy more sounds I don't want... no thank you.

As a compromise they could offer a version that has the usability and programming improvements but not the extra content compared to the current Diamond (without the solo bundle). I would gladly pay a reasonable price for that.


----------



## Wlad

Johnny said:


> It will be a solid $699.99 to $999.99 is my bet... Reduced from $1499.99 2008 prices...


I'm almost certain the full price will be $999, and the upgrade from the HO Diamond $699


----------



## dzilizzi

So, should hit the 50 to 60% off sales in a year maybe? I can wait. I recently bought the Berlin orchestra (except the winds - I had them already) and BBCSO Pro. I really like the idea of the orchestrator and the new OPUS looks pretty good. But I'm not in a hurry. 

Though if the upgrade price is low enough, I may have to go for it.


----------



## Evans

Not knowing the price on this really makes me appreciate what Audiobro is doing with Modern Scoring Strings.

Effectively, it's, "Here's the price, including your multiple upgrade paths, and now please let us tell you why it's going to be worth it."


----------



## Eptesicus

Wlad said:


> I'm almost certain the full price will be $999, and the upgrade from the HO Diamond $699



Thats a lot of money for a few new patches and a new player...:/

If its anywhere near that much I'm out(upgrade wise).


----------



## JonSolo

Wlad said:


> I'm almost certain the full price will be $999, and the upgrade from the HO Diamond $699


This does not make much sense, unless you could get HO Diamond sub $300...since they said that the upgrade would be better than buying outright.

The only HO Diamond that was sub $300 appeared to be a mistake.


----------



## purple

NeonMediaKJT said:


> i heard a click/pop in the video at the beginning, lol


You sure that's not on your end?


----------



## purple

Wlad said:


> I'm almost certain the full price will be $999, and the upgrade from the HO Diamond $699


Why would anybody buy it at that price? EW is great but these days its biggest selling point has been value for money... There are so many competitive offerings now.


----------



## Evans

Eptesicus said:


> Thats a lot of money for a few new patches and a new player...:/
> 
> If its anywhere near that much I'm out(upgrade wise).


I'm in partial agreement, but I keep thinking about what other companies deliver and at what price points.

Let's put it in perspective:

Just because I had it open, I'll use Caspian from Performance Samples as an example, which runs $239 (for just over a single GB of content as three patches). HOOPUS has a new violins section; three new brass sets of recordings; and three new woodwinds ensembles. That's not taking into account edits of old recordings.

Are each of those new sets of recordings worth $239 each? More? If so, we're looking at $700+ just on those.

It may feel like an odd comparison, but is the 230 GB of new content from HOOPUS really worth that little compared to what many people have paid for other libraries with far less?


----------



## Wlad

JonSolo said:


> This does not make much sense, unless you could get HO Diamond sub $300...since they said that the upgrade would be better than buying outright.
> 
> The only HO Diamond that was sub $300 appeared to be a mistake.


Someone here from VI Control asked support whether it will be cheaper to buy HO Diamond and then upgrade to Opus, or to wait and buy Opus at the release, and they told him to wait.


----------



## dcoscina

The music behind them talking was well composed but to be honest I didn’t hear anything that made my jaw drop, sonically speaking. I think I can wait until Gold versions come out or a sale down the line.


----------



## Wlad

dcoscina said:


> The music behind them talking was well composed but to be honest I didn’t hear anything that made my jaw drop, sonically speaking. I think I can wait until Gold versions come out or a sale down the line.


There won't be the Gold version. They want us to look at the Opus as a tier up from the Diamond series.


----------



## Eptesicus

Evans said:


> I'm in partial agreement, but I keep thinking about what other companies deliver and at what price points.
> 
> Let's put it in perspective:
> 
> Just because I had it open, I'll use Caspian from Performance Samples as an example, which runs $239 (for just over a single GB of content as three patches). HOOPUS has a new violins section; three new brass sets of recordings; and three new woodwinds ensembles. That's not taking into account edits of old recordings.
> 
> Are each of those new sets of recordings worth $239 each? More? If so, we're looking at $700+ just on those.
> 
> It may feel like an odd comparison, but is the 230 GB of new content from HOOPUS really worth that little compared to what many people have paid for other libraries with far less?


I'm just simply not paying anywhere near $699 for it.

$699 will get you a hell of a lot on a black friday/big sale.

One could equally pick a different library to the ones you suggested to highlight how expensive that would be - ie You could buy CSW and CSB for about the same, which would be 21 separate instruments/patches, all sampled with multiple articulations.

Also, whilst i dont expect it to be free, a lot of developers do offer new instruments and player/workflow updates etc free of charge (ie Project Sam). OT are giving their new player for free to existing customers as they update their libraries too. Obviously new recordings and new player development won't come cheap, so i'm open to paying some money for an upgrade/some new patches, but certainly not such a a massive amount.


----------



## lettucehat

Wlad said:


> There won't be the Gold version. They want us to look at the Opus as a tier up from the Diamond series.


A tier up from from Diamond to industry standard usability as far as I can tell. I hope they don't price it like it's a big step ahead of the other flagship collections we have in 2021.


----------



## dcoscina

Wlad said:


> There won't be the Gold version. They want us to look at the Opus as a tier up from the Diamond series.


I can live without it.


----------



## rnb_2

Since HOOPUS/Orchestrator are included in both CC packages, is the only difference mic positions, as in Gold vs. Diamond?


----------



## John R Wilson

dcoscina said:


> Ok then pass.


I think they are doing a gold version of the OPUS update.


----------



## Toecutter

Eptesicus said:


> I'm just simply not paying anywhere near $699 for it.
> 
> $699 will get you a hell of a lot on a black friday/big sale.
> 
> One could equally pick a different library to the ones you suggested to highlight how expensive that would be - ie You could buy CSW and CSB for about the same, which would be 21 separate instruments/patches, all sampled with multiple articulations.
> 
> Also, whilst i dont expect it to be free, a lot of developers do offer new instruments and player/workflow updates etc free of charge (ie Project Sam). OT are giving their new player for free to existing customers as they update their libraries too. Obviously new recordings and new player development won't come cheap, so i'm open to paying some money for an upgrade/some new patches, but certainly not such a a massive amount.


EW would sell thousands of upgrades if this was reasonably priced at around $99. In my opinion anything over that will confirm how EW is disconnected from the market reality. Yea subscriptions are profitable but treating old customers like they always do will eventually come back to kick them in the rear. Lets remember that most of that 250GB are microphone positions. Not very impressed with the actual new content... seems very basic other than the new player that will be free. So why punish loyal customers?


----------



## stabsteer

At this point it seems there is so much competition and their libraries are already rather outdated that shouldn't this new player and update be free just to get them back in the game so to speak?


----------



## Eptesicus

stabsteer said:


> At this point it seems there is so much competition and their libraries are already rather outdated that shouldn't this new player and update be free just to get them back in the game?



Partly.

I mean, the player functionality/ease of use, as someone pointed out earlier, is really just bringing them up to speed with the rest of the market.

Obviously completely free would be amazing, but i appreciate that there are quite a few new recordings so a reasonable (albeit still small) upgrade fee would be fine.


----------



## cqd

Toecutter said:


> EW would sell thousands of upgrades if this was reasonably priced at around $99. In my opinion anything over that will confirm how EW is disconnected from the market reality. Yea subscriptions are profitable but treating old customers like they always do will eventually come back to kick them in the rear. Lets remember that most of that 250GB are microphone positions. Not very impressed with the actual new content... seems very basic other than the new player that will be free. So why punish loyal customers?


I wouldn't expect it to be anything south of 300 anyway..


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Toecutter said:


> EW would sell thousands of upgrades if this was reasonably priced at around $99. In my opinion anything over that will confirm how EW is disconnected from the market reality. Yea subscriptions are profitable but treating old customers like they always do will eventually come back to kick them in the rear. Lets remember that most of that 250GB are microphone positions. Not very impressed with the actual new content... seems very basic other than the new player that will be free. So why punish loyal customers?


I imagine they probably have a lot of customer data that informs their pricing strategy, whatever that ends up being


----------



## muziksculp

So, When will Hoopus get officially released ? 

Tomorrow ? or ... ?


----------



## Trax

muziksculp said:


> So, When will Hoopus get officially released ?
> 
> Tomorrow ? or ... ?


Yes


----------



## muziksculp

Trax said:


> Yes


OK. So, Tomorrow is the day. Thanks. 

Looking forward to it.


----------



## JonSolo

heh


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Creating award-winning compositions within SECONDS??? Who's got the time? 

I'm making my award-winning music in an INSTANT with Contemporary Drama Toolkit! 

I'll let you all slack off with this, if it's your thing to slog around through your compositions.
I'm off to pick up a table full of awards! And that's just the last ten minutes!


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

I like music said:


> I'm disappointed that they didn't say it was next gen.


Introducing the last next-gen in sampling technology


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> I've just got a feeling that the initial upgrade price might end up quite a lot more than this $299 composer cloud plus price


And this is just for one year...after that year you own nothing. LOL


----------



## jaketanner

Evans said:


> is the 230 GB of new content from HOOPUS really worth that little compared to what many people have paid for other libraries with far less?


I believe that the upgrade only works if you already have HWO...so take then into account the extra cost of buying the full HWO and the upgrade. If I didn't already have BBC Pro, I would strongly consider this, but I don't need two orchestras...although different sounding.


----------



## BasariStudios

Wlad said:


> Someone here from VI Control asked support whether it will be cheaper to buy HO Diamond and then upgrade to Opus, or to wait and buy Opus at the release, and they told him to wait.


Actually there is, that is how the moods will work, Based on Microphones.


----------



## Evans

jaketanner said:


> I would strongly consider this, but I don't need two orchestras...


Agreed, the right amount is at least three orchestras.


----------



## BasariStudios

jaketanner said:


> I believe that the upgrade only works if you already have HWO...so take then into account the extra cost of buying the full HWO and the upgrade. If I didn't already have BBC Pro, I would strongly consider this, but I don't need two orchestras...although different sounding.


I bought BBC SO PRO, Abbey Road One and Synchron Strings Pro...3 days ago i bought HO Diamond so let's see how the pricing goes from HO to Opus.


----------



## muziksculp

It will be interesting to watch some BBCSO Pro vs Hoopus videos, once Hoopus is released. I'm guessing we will see some posted in the near future.


----------



## Mystic

jaketanner said:


> I believe that the upgrade only works if you already have HWO...so take then into account the extra cost of buying the full HWO and the upgrade. If I didn't already have BBC Pro, I would strongly consider this, but I don't need two orchestras...although different sounding.


I wonder how that will work for those of us who bought all the sections piece by piece as they came out.


----------



## BasariStudios

Mystic said:


> I wonder how that will work for those of us who bought all the sections piece by piece as they came out.


I owned Strings Diamond and Brass Gold, nope, they told me i need full License of HO for upgrade to Opus, there will be no upgrades from Individual Parts of HO. So i just bought HO and now have 2 Licenses for Strings.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> And this is just for one year...after that year you own nothing. LOL


Yep, I'm not a big fan of subscriptions on sample libraries! But I don't think this upgrade price for OPUS is going to be any cheaper than that and it'll probably end up being quite a lot more.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I remember when Play 5 came out. If you wanted to upgrade to it from v4 you had to pay for it if you weren't on subscription.

Six months later they were giving it away.

I love that idea about a $99 upgrade......but it costs more than that to upgrade Spaces to v2..... Still, it made me smile, which after a day like today is nice. 

I don't expect to see any upgrade pricing tomorrow....I'm pretty sure that the pricing and the day of release will be coming _'soon'_.....


----------



## muziksculp

Michael Antrum said:


> I'm pretty sure that the pricing and the day of release will be coming _'soon'_.....


Isn't tomorrow the Release Day ?


----------



## BasariStudios

Michael Antrum said:


> I love that idea about a $99 upgrade......but it costs more than that to upgrade Spaces to v2..... Still, it made me smile, which after a day like today is nice.


That thing is not worth 1 dollar.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Toecutter said:


> EW would sell thousands of upgrades if this was reasonably priced at around $99. In my opinion anything over that will confirm how EW is disconnected from the market reality. Yea subscriptions are profitable but treating old customers like they always do will eventually come back to kick them in the rear. Lets remember that most of that 250GB are microphone positions. Not very impressed with the actual new content... seems very basic other than the new player that will be free. So why punish loyal customers?


Forgive me for my bluntness, but based on your statement about a pricing of more than $99 being unacceptable. I think I have to question who has become disconnected from what the Market even is and how money is made. If they recorded anything there are recording costs, R&D, Development, programmers, scripters etc. Software testers, marketing, publishing, server management and maintenance for CC Plus and the others. So no, I would say that $99 is not going to cover anything.

Considering Spitfire just added £130 onto the price of BBCSO Pro for adding 35GB of content themselves. £679 when I purchased it and now £899.

Just my two cents


----------



## John R Wilson

Also, is their an hr long NAMM event tomorrow for OPUS? I've just checked and it seems like its just another 10 min one between 6pm - 6:10pm. Possibly just the same 10 min video.


----------



## Mystic

BasariStudios said:


> I owned Strings Diamond and Brass Gold, nope, they told me i need full License of HO for upgrade to Opus, there will be no upgrades from Individual Parts of HO. So i just bought HO and now have 2 Licenses for Strings.


That better not be the case. I own all 5 diamond versions and paid thousands for them.


----------



## John R Wilson

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Forgive me for my bluntness, but based on your statement about a pricing of more than $99 being unacceptable. I think I have to question who has become disconnected from what the Market even is and how money is made. If they recorded anything there are recording costs, R&D, Development, programmers, scripters etc. Software testers, marketing, publishing, server management and maintenance for CC Plus and the others. So no, I would say that $99 is not going to cover anything.
> 
> Considering Spitfire just added £130 onto the price of BBCSO Pro for adding 35GB of content themselves. £679 when I purchased it and now £899.
> 
> Just my two cents


BBCSO Pro has always been £899 full price.


----------



## ennbr

muziksculp said:


> Isn't tomorrow the Release Day ?


No dates have been given from everything I've been reading other than a person who posted a Yes to a previous question who was being sarcastic as I read the post


----------



## Michael Antrum

muziksculp said:


> Isn't tomorrow the Release Day ?


Well originally the 21st was going to be release day.....

I'd love to be proved wrong, but I think we'll be waiting a while yet. I'm personally quite happy if that's the case - I'd much rather it be later than announced but as bug free as possible. However, if it gets delayed for a while, all those who upgraded their subscription during the Black Friday sales on the back to the announcement might be a bit cheesed off.

HWO is still a terrific bit of kit as it is now, even without the upgrade, but if this makes it simpler to get under control then it will be something to look forward to, though I think it will be something I look later this year. I've only recently got BBCSO Pro, and therefore have plenty to keep me thoroughly occupied for some time to come.


BasariStudios said:


> That thing is not worth 1 dollar.


Spaces II not worth $1...... Well, that's a rather unusual view, I always quite liked it myself, but I seem to be using Liquidsonics rather more these days.....


----------



## muziksculp

Hope to see it released tomorrow Jan. 22nd. No more delays, and excuses.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Yep, I'm not a big fan of subscriptions on sample libraries! But I don't think this upgrade price for OPUS is going to be any cheaper than that and it'll probably end up being quite a lot more.


From what chat suggested, it will be cheaper to buy it outright.


----------



## jaketanner

Mystic said:


> I wonder how that will work for those of us who bought all the sections piece by piece as they came out.


That sounds like an upgrade then...but I have little experience in dealing with them directly. hope they will honor that as the full HWO.


----------



## Michael Antrum

muziksculp said:


> Hope to see it released tomorrow Jan. 22nd. No more delays, and excuses.


----------



## jaketanner

BasariStudios said:


> I bought BBC SO PRO, Abbey Road One and Synchron Strings Pro...3 days ago i bought HO Diamond so let's see how the pricing goes from HO to Opus.


Man...I hope they give a good upgrade, but as I mentioned to another just now, chat from EW suggested to just buy it outright. Hope you don't get screwed.


----------



## jaketanner

Evans said:


> Agreed, the right amount is at least three orchestras.


Well if the price is right, I would consider it since I am having some RAM issues with BBC...but gonna wait it out.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> From what chat suggested, it will be cheaper to buy it outright.


What cheaper than the $299 Composer cloud plus for the upgrade price! or that it will be cheaper to buy the whole of OPUS than what the upgrade pricing will be?


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> Man...I hope they give a good upgrade, but as I mentioned to another just now, chat from EW suggested to just buy it outright. Hope you don't get screwed.


Yeah that would suggest that its going to be rather pricey on release.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> What cheaper than the $299 Composer cloud plus for the upgrade price! or that it will be cheaper to buy the whole of OPUS than what the upgrade pricing will be?


The $299 subscription seems like a waste unless you do it year after year but you own nothing. So can’t count that in the pricing. But no idea how much anything is gonna be. I was just told that I should wait.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> The $299 subscription seems like a waste unless you do it year after year but you own nothing. So can’t count that in the pricing. But no idea how much anything is gonna be. I was just told that I should wait.


Year after year would end up quite expensive in the long run and yep you'd own nothing! plus I'm only really interested in OPUS and maybe one or two of their other libraries! I think I'll just wait and see what this upgrade pricing is going to be, but it'll have at a decent upgrade price and not something like $699 for me to consider getting it on release.


----------



## cqd

I was thinking 'yeah, three full orchestras is ridiculously excessive..'

Then realized I actually have 4..and loads of other stuff..
This stops after opus..


----------



## Evans

cqd said:


> I was thinking 'yeah, three full orchestras is ridiculously excessive..'
> 
> Then realized I actually have 4..and loads of other stuff..
> This stops after opus..


Performance Samples Voyage?


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Year after year would end up quite expensive in the long run and yep you'd own nothing! plus I'm only really interested in OPUS and maybe one or two of their other libraries! I think I'll just wait and see what this upgrade pricing is going to be, but it'll have at a decent upgrade price and not something like $699 for me to consider getting it on release.


I do have the option of getting the subscription for $10/month currently through EDU. So I may very well do that for a year. Or pay a bit more and do month to month.


----------



## cqd

Evans said:


> Performance Samples Voyage?


Haha.. yeah, I'll manage without it I reckon..

And yeah, just thinking about this now.. I've waited a year for an upgrade price on Hollywood choirs.. unless it's reasonable might give it a year actually..


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

John R Wilson said:


> BBCSO Pro has always been £899 full price.


I stand very much corrected, which is ok with me 

Thanks for the facts! I must have bought it on sale after all.


----------



## Toecutter

muziksculp said:


> Hope to see it released tomorrow Jan. 22nd. No more delays, and excuses.


You tell them!! It worked with CSW XD 
I hope it's sooner than later... I'm hyped for the Opus Player actually.


----------



## dzilizzi

Evans said:


> Agreed, the right amount is at least three orchestras.


Four.... or maybe five?


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> I do have the option of getting the subscription for $10/month currently through EDU. So I may very well do that for a year. Or pay a bit more and do month to month.


That's not a bad price, probably the cheapest option to get access and at least try out OPUS! Would that give composer cloud X or the full composer cloud Plus?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

So, unlikely for Opus to land in January now it seems? Same with MSS it would appear. Talk about dry January!


----------



## Guffy

I really wish developers would stop giving us dates and then just postpone without notice.
At least give us a CDProjekt Red style apology letter.


----------



## Collywobbles

While we're still speculating on price, my guess is that they're aiming for a number that will strongly encourage you to consider their subscription model... That's just my gut feeling though, and I sincerely hope I'm wrong. Man I hope I'm wrong...


----------



## Trash Panda

jaketanner said:


> but I don't need two orchestras...although different sounding.


Uh oh. I’ma mere hobbyist just 7 months into this and already have...5? 6 once Infinite Strings comes out.


----------



## Wlad

ALittleNightMusic said:


> So, unlikely for Opus to land in January now it seems? Same with MSS it would appear. Talk about dry January!


Dry January?!?! How about Contemporary Drama Toolkit by Spitfire? ..."Less theory - More feeling" library.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

John R Wilson said:


> That's not a bad price, probably the cheapest option to get access and at least try out OPUS! Would that give composer cloud X or the full composer cloud Plus?


It’s for X, I also have that deal. I use a ton of the libraries, and it’s basically pocket change.


----------



## JTB

It may have already been covered here but does anyone know if I need Solo Instruments to qualify as having HO?.
Because I have diamond versions of all except the solos. I really hope not.


----------



## Wlad

JTB said:


> It may have already been covered here but does anyone know if I need Solo Instruments to qualify as having HO?.
> Because I have diamond versions of all except the solos. I really hope not.


No, you only need Hollywood Orchestra Diamond, as far as I am aware.


----------



## BasariStudios

JTB said:


> It may have already been covered here but does anyone know if I need Solo Instruments to qualify as having HO?.
> Because I have diamond versions of all except the solos. I really hope not.


I spoke to their support, the ONLY upgrade Path will be from HollyWood Orchestra
FULL and not individual Sections or Solos or anything like that. Which means you
are good to go...unless they screw us with a high price, i bought HO 3 days ago.


----------



## mostexcellent

The longer they keep pushing the deadline the more worried I am that the pricing will be ridiculous


----------



## szczaw

BasariStudios said:


> I spoke to their support, the ONLY upgrade Path will be from HollyWood Orchestra
> FULL and not individual Sections or Solos or anything like that. Which means you
> are good to go...unless they screw us with a high price, i bought HO 3 days ago.


By 'full' they mean diamond HO + diamond solo instruments (cello, violin, harp) ? Makes sense, since if I remember correctly, solo instruments are part of Opus.


----------



## JTB

mostexcellent said:


> The longer they keep pushing the deadline the more worried I am that the pricing will be ridiculous


Anything over 400 and I'm out. HO isn't even in my template currently. This release should be more about 'You know all those HO libraries you bought, well know you can actually use them'.
More like a mega fix for something that was never really completed. The samples were always good, but there is a lot more to a sample library than the quality of the samples like UX, playability, customization etc.
Would be nice if Opus allowed velocity to control dynamics. Having one hand on the mod wheel the whole time kind of sucks TBH.


----------



## Lazer42

I was intrigued by the emphasis placed in the video on new samples recorded from players who regularly play together and so line their performances up well with one another, especially when he discussed the violins.

I've always thought some of the HO string patches have quite a few notes which sound out of tune, as though individual members of the section are finding their note at slightly different times, or buzzy, almost as if the individual players are not synchronizing their vibrato quite right. To me it sounds quite bad at times - perhaps an unpopular opinion. I'm any case, I hope some of the new stuff is a bit smoother.


----------



## JTB

szczaw said:


> By 'full' they mean diamond HO + diamond solo instruments (cello, violin, harp) ? Makes sense, since if I remember correctly, solo instruments are part of Opus.


Not 100% on this either. I would like to know as there sale ends today. On the site it looks like it is just HS, HB, HWW, HOP. Because if you click on HO they are the products that are included.


----------



## Markrs

John R Wilson said:


> That's not a bad price, probably the cheapest option to get access and at least try out OPUS! Would that give composer cloud X or the full composer cloud Plus?


The $10 EDU subscription is just for CCX they don't do a EDU for CC Plus sadly. Personally CCX is amazing value for what you get, which is a huge amount of stuff, especially if you want instruments beyond just orchestral.


----------



## Gerbil

Lazer42 said:


> almost as if the individual players are not synchronizing their vibrato quite right.


That never happens.


----------



## AndyP

Lazer42 said:


> I've always thought some of the HO string patches have quite a few notes which sound out of tune, as though individual members of the section are finding their note at slightly different times, or buzzy, almost as if the individual players are not synchronizing their vibrato quite right. To me it sounds quite bad at times - perhaps an unpopular opinion. I'm any case, I hope some of the new stuff is a bit smoother.


The tuning problem is definitely there. For example, in the Strings Ensemble patch of Divisi A. I think A1 or A2 is seriously out of tune.
There are a few legato transitions that give me more grief, but all in all it's still the library I use the most (especially brass and strings).


----------



## AndyP

I am interested in how the orchestrator works. If it works the same way as TOC, it's not that interesting for me, because I would like to be able to change patterns on the fly in a patch via KS (like Sonokinetic). This assumes of course that no new sounds have to be loaded, that would lead to dropouts. 
This would make it very easy to build a basic framework for ostinatos that would not be as static as in TOC.

Rarely have I been so curious about the details and price as I am with OPUS. The whole thing stands and falls with this, because the added value for HOD owners must be significant to justify a higher price. 

I wonder if only the update (200+ gb) needs to be loaded, or if it requires a full new download. That would be over 800+ gb!


----------



## Eptesicus

JTB said:


> It may have already been covered here but does anyone know if I need Solo Instruments to qualify as having HO?.
> Because I have diamond versions of all except the solos. I really hope not.



I would like to know this too.

I have the diamond versions of strings, brass, woodwind and perc. I didnt even think the solos were part of the diamond orchestra?

If the only way to upgrade is to just have one full license for the Diamond orchestra then that would be massively **** and i imagine they will have a lot of angry customers.


----------



## Markrs

Eptesicus said:


> I would like to know this too.
> 
> I have the diamond versions of strings, brass, woodwind and perc. I didnt even think the solos were part of the diamond orchestra?
> 
> If the only way to upgrade is to just have one full license for the Diamond orchestra then that would be massively **** and i imagine they will have a lot of angry customers.


Solo instruments are not part of diamond orchestra and have to be purchased separately, but I think they are considered part of the Hollywood diamond product range


----------



## Eptesicus

Markrs said:


> Solo instruments are not part of diamond orchestra and have to be purchased separately, but I think they are considered part of the Hollywood diamond product range



Ah ok. Well hopefully having bought the separate four sections at different times, still counts as owning the whole orchestra for the upgrade then.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> That's not a bad price, probably the cheapest option to get access and at least try out OPUS! Would that give composer cloud X or the full composer cloud Plus?


I believe it's available to both...but less mics. I am also unsure what the upgrade would be from Gold to OPUS instead of Diamond to OPUS...Gold is $225 from Audiodeluxe.com. Seems reasonable for a whole orchestra actually.


----------



## muziksculp

I have all of the HO-Diamond sections, but missing the Hollywood Perc. Diamond.

Hollywood Perc. shows up at $159.60 (reg price is $399) , is it worth buying it to get the Hollywood Opus Edition upgrade from HO-Diamond ?


----------



## ridgero

Michael Antrum said:


> I remember when Play 5 came out. If you wanted to upgrade to it from v4 you had to pay for it if you weren't on subscription.
> 
> Six months later they were giving it away.
> 
> I love that idea about a $99 upgrade......but it costs more than that to upgrade Spaces to v2..... Still, it made me smile, which after a day like today is nice.



Different times, way less competitors.


----------



## Markrs

muziksculp said:


> I have all of the HO-Diamond sections, but missing the Hollywood Perc. Diamond.
> 
> Hollywood Perc. shows up at $159.60 (reg price is $399) , is it worth buying it to get the Hollywood Opus Edition upgrade from HO-Diamond ?


Hard to know, my advice would be to wait till we have more information, as the EW discounts seem to be never ending.


----------



## Eptesicus

Michael Antrum said:


> I remember when Play 5 came out. If you wanted to upgrade to it from v4 you had to pay for it if you weren't on subscription.
> 
> Six months later they were giving it away.
> 
> I love that idea about a $99 upgrade......but it costs more than that to upgrade Spaces to v2..... Still, it made me smile, which after a day like today is nice.
> 
> I don't expect to see any upgrade pricing tomorrow....I'm pretty sure that the pricing and the day of release will be coming _'soon'_.....



Trouble is, if it is multiple hundreds, i think i would just rather save my money and buy something different/newer (ie a whole new orchestral section) during the next sales period.

I'm open to giving HO another go with a fresh take on usability and some new patches, but not for an exorbitant cost.


----------



## Markrs

I'm going to put my hat into the ring to guess the price. I think RRP for EW HO OPus will be $999, it will be discounted to $599, during initial release. The upgrade from HOD will be $299.

In summer sale 2022 EW Opus will be 60% off like the rest of their libraries at $399

For me this would be similar pricing as BBCSO, plus Opus upgrade from HOD is similar to going from BBCSO Core to Pro, during the recent sale period.


----------



## Jose7822

Dude, I hope you’re right. Those are prices I can deal with. I already spent $300+ USD on HO Diamond since it was cheaper to buy the full license than to upgrade (no complaints), so another $299 would be just acceptable. Any higher than that would make OPUS a hard pass for me, unfortunately.

I don’t really care about the orchestrator. All I want are the new recordings and new features. That’s it.


----------



## Audio Birdi

I found this interesting on the website, which might explain the "edge" microphone position. 

"Shawn Murphy has created special mic mixes for Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition, including an additional recorded mic position for all new instrument ensembles that is made up of all "off-axis" close mics that were open, but not played directly into. This extra mic position is perfect for capturing the larger sound of EastWest Studio One"

Looks like it's a "bleed" mic position which is cool. But only for the new content.


----------



## Fa

muziksculp said:


> Hope to see it released tomorrow Jan. 22nd. No more delays, and excuses.


LOL !!

Well, I work in marketing, and I have to admit what they did is pretty clever and effective, but from a user point of view, definitely unfair. 

They changed the statement suggesting or giving the impression of "to be released 21st January" to a pretty open and unclear "to be released shortly after the NAMM preview".

Actually I'm finding 2 elements to suspect the launch is not so imminent:

- the content of the NAMM preview was a great show about everything we already know and they told us already. NOTHING new at all. No demo, no walkthrough, no launch date, real players mixed with a fake-playback guy... that's impressive marketing for an upcoming project, but not a product launch presentation at all, sorry.

- the site say "subscribe to email" to know when it's released. If launch was close, you don't need to get email as reminder...

To be honest I don't care, I can wait few more days, or weeks, even months, and the Cloud subscription I got to test Opus is already value for money, disregarding the Opus launch date, BUT... to be fooled by EW marketing over and over again start to be the the frustrating recursive practice: don't be surprised if users get sarcastic and nobody loves the company. Great recordings, poor software, horrible attitude.


----------



## ennbr

If this is not a mistake EW has changed todays event from 1 hour to 10 minutes


----------



## itsrainingben

I can wait for the delays. I use the subscription service already and have got around the quirks of the player, despite how annoying they still are. EW usually nail the sample side of things, but this time round my only wish is to have an easier naming convention without the sheer number of different samples all doing very slightly different things.


----------



## MarcusD

Asked them if users who get gold OPUS, build a template then later upgrade to diamond OPUS - will they need to reload patches into their template when re-working it for Diamond or will OPUS work universally now across all editions and just load the extra mics and display extra patches . Unfortunately answer is no, you'll still need to manually reload all your patches in if you decide to upgrade from one version to another.


----------



## Crossroads

Funny thing is, I'm actually more interested in the workflow improvements the Opus player brings rather than the Hollywood Opus itself

Keyswitches (gawd damn finally) and a-la carte sample downloading is a godsend. Purge function, bring it. The rest is just a bonus.

Like, for orchestral purposes I have Hollywood Orchestra complete, BBCSO Core (will upgrade to full next time around), NI Symphony Series complete, Palette complete, Majestica, Orchestral Swarm, Symphonic Shadows, Rhapsody Orchestral Percussion, Embertone Solo Strings and that's not even counting more esoteric stuff like world percussion and instruments and stuff... I mean, I think I've got a good round ''do-it-all'' package. Least I care for is new samples. Workflow improvements and programming changes, those are what interest me.


----------



## I like music

ennbr said:


> If this is not a mistake EW has changed todays event from 1 hour to 10 minutes


"Hey guys, so we did the marketing promo video today. I said stuff like "unparalleled" and "best hall in the world." So, tomorrow we're showing everyone the 1-hr live demos, right?"

"Uhhh ... are we? I thought you said we were releasing in October 2021."

"Oh, did we?"

"Yeah, check that Slack message you sent to everyone in #general."

"Ohhhh yes, you're right - I remember that now. October it is, then! Sooooo, just checking, it isn't ready to show at NAMM tomorrow?"

"We haven't even recorded the violins yet!"

"OK, I have a great idea. Call the people at NAMM and tell them to reduce our 1-hr time slot down to 10 minutes. We'll just play them that video from earlier, where I said "unparalleled" and "best hall in the world." Should do the trick. Have a good weekend team!"


----------



## Audio Birdi

Crossroads said:


> Funny thing is, I'm actually more interested in the workflow improvements the Opus player brings rather than the Hollywood Opus itself
> 
> Keyswitches (gawd damn finally) and a-la carte sample downloading is a godsend. Purge function, bring it. The rest is just a bonus.
> 
> Like, for orchestral purposes I have Hollywood Orchestra complete, BBCSO Core (will upgrade to full next time around), NI Symphony Series complete, Palette complete, Majestica, Orchestral Swarm, Symphonic Shadows, Rhapsody Orchestral Percussion, Embertone Solo Strings and that's not even counting more esoteric stuff like world percussion and instruments and stuff... I mean, I think I've got a good round ''do-it-all'' package. Least I care for is new samples. Workflow improvements and programming changes, those are what interest me.


Same here, very-much looking forward to the new OPUS player. Since it's still loading in EW's current sample-format, I suspect that they built-upon what's currently available underneath the PLAY engine but started from-scratch in terms of what features are to-be included and taking advantage of new-technologies.

So even-though this is OPUS 1.0... it'll be Play 7.0 in a sense. I'm intrigued by what the very-top buttons do in the engine for-sure! Perhaps the ability to create, edit and export our own sample patches or even libraries? 

Thoroughly looking-forward to it!


----------



## Crossroads

Seeing that top header methinks they haven't played their cards yet


----------



## Audio Birdi

Crossroads said:


> Seeing that top header methinks they haven't played their cards yet


They've been developing the new engine for around 5 years which Doug mentioned in the video so I'm hoping it's well-thought out.


----------



## MauroPantin

Man, I just came back from a short trip and was hoping this would be out and waiting for me. A bit bummed it's not out, to be honest.


----------



## ookami

I think, the first Preview looks promising, we are also EW Cloud Users since 2017 and upgraded in December to CC Plus, especially to use the OPUS Edition with the Performance Mixes,...
Hope they'll surprise us and still release it Today


----------



## chrisr

I loved "pull it down from the cloud in real time" (paraphrasing) - what?... like, in the time it takes the player to play every note on their instrument in several different articulations at several dynamics? ouch!

he he - I love and use HO Gold in lots of my work so looking forward to hearing more on this new project.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ookami said:


> I think, the first Preview looks promising, we are also EW Cloud Users since 2017 and upgraded in December to CC Plus, especially to use the OPUS Edition with the Performance Mixes,...
> Hope they'll surprise us and still release it Today


I doubt it, EW mentioned in a FB comment this morning that the release date is still unknown.

Not a surprise though, this is typical.


----------



## doctoremmet

So this is now the CSW replacement thread? Or was the U-he Zebra 3 thread already given that status?


----------



## Lazer42

Gerbil said:


> That never happens.


I don't know what the practical cause is, so maybe its not as I described, but the sound is still what it is. It sounds like buzzing, like a bunch of vuvuzelas or bees, and it's most noticeable when the vibrato is turned up (but not only then). It happens all over, but one place I can think of where it's easy to hear is the upper end of the celli patches.


----------



## Crossroads

Lazer42 said:


> I don't know what the practical cause is, so maybe its not as I described, but the sound is still what it is. It sounds like buzzing, like a bunch of vuvuzelas or bees, and it's most noticeable when the vibrato is turned up (but not only then). It happens all over, but one place I can think of where it's easy to hear is the upper end of the celli patches.


That's actually what it's supposed to sound like in that finger position. Turn it up to fourth and it doesn't happen anymore. It happens just in the finger position patches.


----------



## JTB

Dear moderators, 
I am trying to read these posts but the stupid flashing 'Explore' button is mega irritating. Please don't allow flashing ads on this forum.
Thanks.


----------



## Michael Antrum

doctoremmet said:


> So this is now the CSW replacement thread? Or was the U-he Zebra 3 thread already given that status?



I think we should give it a code name.....how about Play Pro.....


----------



## Lazer42

Crossroads said:


> That's actually what it's supposed to sound like in that finger position. Turn it up to fourth and it doesn't happen anymore. It happens just in the finger position patches.


I have been in the habit of using 4th position for years because I noticed it was sometimes less noticeable in 4th position, but not gone altogether. 

What's the practical reason for this, anyways?


----------



## Crossroads

Lazer42 said:


> I have been in the habit of using 4th position for years because I noticed it was sometimes less noticeable in 4th position, but not gone altogether.
> 
> What's the practical reason for this, anyways?


I always believed it was because vibrato is not possible irl in these flat positions from zero. I might be wrong though and they're just bad samples.


----------



## dzilizzi

So I was looking at the announcement on Facebook to see if there was anything new. One of the first comments "Will this run on a Mac with an M.1 chip?"

EW reading comment "Oh damn! Does anyone have a new Mac with the M.1 chip so we can test this thing out?"

EW Employees " Uh, no, you don't pay us enough to buy new Macs, only used ones"

EW "Well, darn, when does the Apple store open? Wait, we can't just buy one? We have to order it and wait for delivery? Cancel the preview at NAMM. Play that old one instead!"


----------



## gpwilliams

JTB said:


> Dear moderators,
> I am trying to read these posts but the stupid flashing 'Explore' button is mega irritating. Please don't allow flashing ads on this forum.
> Thanks.


Totally agree!! The flashing ads are so annoying. Some of them are such a distraction I expand the window so to eliminate the side bar.


----------



## muziksculp

Markrs said:


> Hard to know, my advice would be to wait till we have more information, as the EW discounts seem to be never ending.


Yes, Thanks for the advice. I'm going to wait for more info. 

If HOOpus Edition turns out to be a fantastic sounding library, I might just subscribe to their cloud service for a year, and see how that goes. But totally uncertain at this time.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Fa said:


> BUT... to be fooled by EW marketing over and over again start to be the the frustrating recursive practice: don't be surprised if users get sarcastic and nobody loves the company. Great recordings, poor software, horrible attitude.


To be honest in my going on 8yrs with EW, this is what I have come to accept and expect from them. They clearly seem to have hungry coroporates and a board of directors that just want to bleed cash out of the customer base, while having clued-up business-minded engineers and music professionals who are passionate about the products. A fight between the creators and sellers.

But the products that come out, I reaally like, and so I keep buying them. Knowing this does not change my custom. Some companies are just like that, you don't tend to get it all. Great devs, passionate musicians and lovely, friendly directors and sales and marketing teams. Just not a realistic idea to me, because their focuses are all in different places, which tends to determine practices.


----------



## BasariStudios

Jose7822 said:


> Dude, I hope you’re right. Those are prices I can deal with. I already spent $300+ USD on HO Diamond since it was cheaper to buy the full license than to upgrade (no complaints), so another $299 would be just acceptable. Any higher than that would make OPUS a hard pass for me, unfortunately.
> 
> I don’t really care about the orchestrator. All I want are the new recordings and new features. That’s it.


I did the same, i paid 312 for HO Diamond 4 days ago.


----------



## muziksculp

So much unknow about the pricing, and upgrade scheme of HOOpus Edition. When will we get the details ?


----------



## Casiquire

This forum when a company doesn't announce dates: "I think it's ridiculous that they can't even give us a ballpark. We have to base purchasing decisions off this. They don't care about the customers because they can't even give us a hint so that we can know what to buy."

This forum when a company does announce dates: "I think it's ridiculous that they can't even release on time. I put off buying Modern Scoring Drama Orchestral Toolskit because I was waiting for FOOBAS to drop. They don't care about the customers because I could have just bought the other library instead"

The industry doesn't seem to allow for accurate date predictions. It's time we got used to that and stopped getting so upset when this happens


----------



## BasariStudios

Oh...and i still believe that in yesterday show that was a real Orchestra,
as it is the case with most Companies...all Orchestra with a fake Guy
sitting in front of a PC with a Keyboard and the Library open. LOL


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

muziksculp said:


> So much unknow about the pricing, and upgrade scheme of HOOpus Edition. When will we get the details ?


Jeezuz! Why is everyone so ravenous over this? No one knows anything about upgrade pricing, and EW has said absolutely nothing, with the exception of the CC pricing. It's absurd how people are buying HO with imaginary upgrade costs. What's the big rush? Just wait until it's released and go from there. 

Ok, I'll get my coat....


----------



## Allen Constantine

BasariStudios said:


> Oh...and i still believe that in yesterday show that was a real Orchestra,
> as it is the case with most Companies...all Orchestra with a fake Guy
> sitting in front of a PC with a Keyboard and the Library open. LOL


Absolutely not a real orchestra! Just EW refocusing on how a real performance would sound in a studio in virtual style! 

It sounds good, sampling and all, but hey!!! Take a listen to a live one! You'll feel the air, you'll feel the emotions, the sound particles unite!

Sampling obviously is tricky nowadays but not confusing when it comes to the real thing!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Casiquire said:


> This forum when a company doesn't announce dates: "I think it's ridiculous that they can't even give us a ballpark. We have to base purchasing decisions off this. They don't care about the customers because they can't even give us a hint so that we can know what to buy."
> 
> This forum when a company does announce dates: "I think it's ridiculous that they can't even release on time. I put off buying Modern Scoring Drama Orchestral Toolskit because I was waiting for FOOBAS to drop. They don't care about the customers because I could have just bought the other library instead"
> 
> The industry doesn't seem to allow for accurate date predictions. It's time we got used to that and stopped getting so upset when this happens


Well said! It's like people's DAW's are frozen until HOOPUS is released Lol. Personally, I'm buying it regardless (longtime, loyal user), and it will get here when it gets here.


----------



## muziksculp

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Jeezuz! Why is everyone so ravenous over this? No one knows anything about upgrade pricing, and EW has said absolutely nothing, with the exception of the CC pricing. It's absurd how people are buying HO with imaginary upgrade costs. What's the big rush? Just wait until it's released and go from there.
> 
> Ok, I'll get my coat....


LOL .. I would rather take it easy, and not rush. The only problem is the lack of info. , i.e. What if they don't have the special deal on Diamond Perc. once Hoopus is officially released ? I have no clue, should I wait or not. So, it is really the lack of info. that is causing all these speculations, and questions about what to do to get the best deal on Hoopus. 

Surely, I can just wait and do nothing until they announce some concrete pricing, and upgrade path pricing. Hopefully they will do that soon.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Casiquire said:


> This forum when a company doesn't announce dates: "I think it's ridiculous that they can't even give us a ballpark. We have to base purchasing decisions off this. They don't care about the customers because they can't even give us a hint so that we can know what to buy."
> 
> This forum when a company does announce dates: "I think it's ridiculous that they can't even release on time. I put off buying Modern Scoring Drama Orchestral Toolskit because I was waiting for FOOBAS to drop. They don't care about the customers because I could have just bought the other library instead"
> 
> The industry doesn't seem to allow for accurate date predictions. It's time we got used to that and stopped getting so upset when this happens


But hey, look man, I don't want to play the library. I just need something big to test my Download speed is still what I am being offered


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

muziksculp said:


> LOL .. I would rather take it easy, and not rush. The only problem is the lack of info. , i.e. What if they don't have the special deal on Diamond Perc. once Hoopus is officially released ? I have no clue, should I wait or not. So, it is really the lack of info. that is causing all these speculations, and questions about what to do to get the best deal on Hoopus.
> 
> Surely, I can just wait and do nothing until they announce some concrete pricing, and upgrade path pricing. Hopefully they will do that soon.


It's a moot point, but I understand. The reality is, historically EW has sales like every ten minutes, so you'll get the same deal as everyone else.


----------



## eromain

The one and only reason I am a bit impatient for pricing is that East West told me it would be announced yesterday.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

You know, thinking about it as a possiblity guys: With NAMM being such a massive festival, they may have shown it to people there (likely have) and got feedback suggesting that they could add a little more. I can see NAMM being one of those sorts of events, that would spark improvements for product developers and companies.

That's always a consideration... surely


----------



## Fa

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> To be honest in my going on 8yrs with EW, this is what I have come to accept and expect from them. They clearly seem to have hungry coroporates and a board of directors that just want to bleed cash out of the customer base, while having clued-up business-minded engineers and music professionals who are passionate about the products. A fight between the creators and sellers.
> 
> But the products that come out, I reaally like, and so I keep buying them. Knowing this does not change my custom. Some companies are just like that, you don't tend to get it all. Great devs, passionate musicians and lovely, friendly directors and sales and marketing teams. Just not a realistic idea to me, because their focuses are all in different places, which tends to determine practices.


Yes, crystal clear and I agree.

Actually I'm with EW since they were still on Kompakt... I had Play 1 and all the following cr... ehm... sorry, the following players. Their samples are (not always but almost always) top quality, product concepts are brilliant and exclusive, and the company is innovative and passionate as you say. 

On the other side I own several other companies products and I had close contact with their customer service and even their developers being a beta tester and demo makers. You are right business is business and often it's a critical point, but EW always won the "worst in class" position in my personal 15 years of experience.

Still it doesn't matter, as I wrote and you also say, customer has the freedom of choice, buy it as it is, or don't buy it anymore. My post was about expectations, and the EW habits of playing with that on a borderline dark field of "close-to-unfair" communication style.


----------



## Wlad

Casiquire said:


> This forum when a company doesn't announce dates: "I think it's ridiculous that they can't even give us a ballpark. We have to base purchasing decisions off this. They don't care about the customers because they can't even give us a hint so that we can know what to buy."
> 
> This forum when a company does announce dates: "I think it's ridiculous that they can't even release on time. I put off buying Modern Scoring Drama Orchestral Toolskit because I was waiting for FOOBAS to drop. They don't care about the customers because I could have just bought the other library instead"
> 
> The industry doesn't seem to allow for accurate date predictions. It's time we got used to that and stopped getting so upset when this happens


It's not that hard to finish the product and then announce it. Enough time for beta testing and marketing from the time it is announced to the point of release.


----------



## AndyP

Waiting has become part of the business. As long as they do not release I can not spend money. You should always look at the positive sides.

I'm going out on a shopping tour ... ah, everything is closed ...


----------



## dzilizzi

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Jeezuz! Why is everyone so ravenous over this? No one knows anything about upgrade pricing, and EW has said absolutely nothing, with the exception of the CC pricing. It's absurd how people are buying HO with imaginary upgrade costs. What's the big rush? Just wait until it's released and go from there.
> 
> Ok, I'll get my coat....


Well they initially promised fall of 2020. And we are excited to see it. But past pricing experience has not been good. So, there's a need to plan if you have limited budget and want other things as well.


----------



## Evans

An important lesson to learn in life:

Negativity fills a void.

It can be about the way you communicate with customers, or how you resolve a fight with a spouse. Personal, private, public, job-related. Negativity fills a void, and there's no way around that but to fill it as efficiently and honestly as possible.


----------



## Casiquire

Wlad said:


> It's not that hard to finish the product and then announce it. Enough time for beta testing and marketing from the time it is announced to the point of release.


Beta testing means bug fixing. And you say "shouldn't", yet almost no devs announce a date far in advance and meet it. Apparently it IS that hard.


----------



## Fa

Casiquire said:


> This forum when a company doesn't announce dates: "I think it's ridiculous that they can't even give us a ballpark. We have to base purchasing decisions off this. They don't care about the customers because they can't even give us a hint so that we can know what to buy."
> 
> This forum when a company does announce dates: "I think it's ridiculous that they can't even release on time. I put off buying Modern Scoring Drama Orchestral Toolskit because I was waiting for FOOBAS to drop. They don't care about the customers because I could have just bought the other library instead"
> 
> The industry doesn't seem to allow for accurate date predictions. It's time we got used to that and stopped getting so upset when this happens


You are definitely right but...
please notice that they were using the announcement in a pretty strong way to collect subscriptions and create expectations. When a company in real life due to real life common issues can't keep promises, usually is a bit more honest and cautious, and doesn't use false expectations to build marketing and make money. That's my personal complaint, not the delay, that's normal and understandable.


----------



## Casiquire

Fa said:


> You are definitely right but...
> please notice that they were using the announcement in a pretty strong way to collect subscriptions and create expectations. When a company in real life due to real life common issues can't keep promises, usually is a bit more honest and cautious, and doesn't use false expectations to build marketing and make money. That's my personal complaint, not the delay, that's normal and understandable.


That's fair! I think all haziness around release dates wind up benefiting the dev lol


----------



## Wlad

Casiquire said:


> Beta testing means bug fixing. And you say "shouldn't", yet almost no devs announce a date far in advance and meet it. Apparently it IS that hard.


Thank you for explaining to me what beta testing is. In the library world, it is not that common to see that developers move their release dates. Some developers like Spitfire, for example, will announce a library a week before the release. So it's not that hard.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

dzilizzi said:


> Well they initially promised fall of 2020. And we are excited to see it. But past pricing experience has not been good. So, there's a need to plan if you have limited budget and want other things as well.


Lizzi....didn't you say you were finished with orchestral libraries?  I think that was after the Cinesamples bundle.

I know, I know, couldn't resist


----------



## hag01

What's going on? Why the new HWO is still not for sale at soundsonline.com?

I want to see prices, I hope for an economical upgrade price.
I'm waiting eagerly with expectations for upgraded woodwinds with section patches.
Except for woodwinds, everything else is just a bonus for me, since the old HWO is already awesome IMO.


----------



## JonSolo

It is announced in advance so that users can ready their method of payment, even if a price is not established. The anticipation alone of this sort of thing (and you can add new Macs, iPhones, iPads, gadgets, etc.) gets people talking about it...and whets appetites for a purchase whether needed or not.

The delay is typical. I have worked with devs on sample libraries... much of "presumed release date" is based on what coders and scripters tell you. Hopefully there is some QC involved in any delay, making for a better released product (think back to those phased woodwinds... whole library felt rushed).

Cost will not be a determining factor for me. But I will weigh what is released against what I have. If enough reason is added, I will own it. (And this coming from a guy who has 3 Jupiter-8 emulations on his HD, ha.)


----------



## dzilizzi

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Lizzi....didn't you say you were finished with orchestral libraries?  I think that was after the Cinesamples bundle.
> 
> I know, I know, couldn't resist


LOL! I am not going to live that down. I actually don't so much care about this other than to make my HWO Diamond more usable. I'm more interested in the orchestrator.


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> I'm more interested in the orchestrator.


LOL.. But you are supposed to be the Orchestrator


----------



## Batwaffel

JonSolo said:


> It is announced in advance so that users can ready their method of payment, even if a price is not established. The anticipation alone of this sort of thing (and you can add new Macs, iPhones, iPads, gadgets, etc.) gets people talking about it...and whets appetites for a purchase whether needed or not.
> 
> The delay is typical. I have worked with devs on sample libraries... much of "presumed release date" is based on what coders and scripters tell you. Hopefully there is some QC involved in any delay, making for a better released product (think back to those phased woodwinds... whole library felt rushed).
> 
> Cost will not be a determining factor for me. But I will weigh what is released against what I have. If enough reason is added, I will own it. (And this coming from a guy who has 3 Jupiter-8 emulations on his HD, ha.)


Delays are typical of every industry but you don't announce a date unless you're 95% sure you can hit the date you're aiming for. How many delays are we at now for this? You wait too long and those funds secured start going to other places and people lose faith in your ability and competency to release products.

EW has been pulling this kind of crap for a long time and it's tiring.


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> LOL.. But you are supposed to be the Orchestrator


Hey! It takes a long time drawing in then fixing, then fixing again, then fixing again,..... those little dots. Yeah, I could do it, but this should be faster. 

And besides, I'm the composer. I never claimed to be an orchestrator!!!!


----------



## Evans

Batwaffel said:


> EW has been pulling this kind of crap for a long time and it's tiring.


As an individual, it can be, but they've seemingly thrived over the years. It must be working for them, on the whole.

But, yes, they couldn't even hit a _season_, much less a specific date.


----------



## Collywobbles

Evans said:


> An important lesson to learn in life:
> 
> Negativity fills a void.
> 
> It can be about the way you communicate with customers, or how you resolve a fight with a spouse. Personal, private, public, job-related. Negativity fills a void, and there's no way around that but to fill it as efficiently and honestly as possible.


Nailed it. This is true on so many levels. 

_You're not hearing anything, so something must be wrong - If everything was fine, they would let you know._ 

This is definitely not always the case but the mind certainly likes to jump to this conclusion. "Negativity fills a void" is a much better saying than "no news is good news"!


----------



## BasariStudios

This is so sad and Disappointing! What is wrong with these people at EW?
Ahahahahahaha...10 minutes presentation today with the same video of yesterday.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL, aren't they embarrassed?


----------



## dcoscina

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Well said! It's like people's DAW's are frozen until HOOPUS is released Lol. Personally, I'm buying it regardless (longtime, loyal user), and it will get here when it gets here.


I'm told that buying new sample libraries is going to become a sport at the next Winter Olympics...


----------



## Batwaffel

Evans said:


> As an individual, it can be, but they've seemingly thrived over the years. It must be working for them, on the whole.
> 
> But, yes, they couldn't even hit a _season_, much less a specific date.


Mainly because they made all their products dirt cheap and put them on subscription so they could hit the very lucrative consumer market. 

I've got some pretty bias feelings about this since I'm some $14,000 deep with them over the years and not even so much as a discount on their composer cloud when it came out. Slap in the face at every single turn with them so we'll see how they handle this release. I too am one who has all the individual parts of Hollywood having bought each one as it was released so they better not screw us on the upgrade to OPUS.


----------



## doctoremmet

Hey, as you guys may have heard... there’s this anonymous chap called Q who gives us all kinds of very valuable tips about how to run our lives and stuff. Most of it through heavily encoded messages, yeah?

So go figure this..... I just found out that the president of the United States has a Twitter account which is called @potus. Awfully close to HOOPUS, innit!? 

I don’t know man... but it is CREEPY AF!


----------



## Michael Antrum

It wouldn't surprise me if it weren't released until the middle of the year....but that's fine.....there's really no rush....

...except, perhaps for all those who subscribed or upgraded their subscription believing they would be downloading it all today....


----------



## RogiervG

when is the walkthrough session? I don't see it on the namm website (or believeinmusic website, the sessions)

And the link please?


----------



## John R Wilson

Michael Antrum said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if it weren't released until the middle of the year....but that's fine.....there's really no rush....
> 
> ...except, perhaps for all those who subscribed or upgraded their subscription believing they would be downloading it all today....



Yeah, I don't think it is coming for quite some time yet. They have not really provided any new information from what we already knew and they have just said to stay tuned for the imminent release of the official trailer, walkthroughs, and more exclusive sneak peaks. They also mentioned that they are still adding additional new features and content and we now have no new date for a potential release.


----------



## muziksculp

John R Wilson said:


> Yeah, I don't think it is coming for quite some time yet. They have not really provided any new information from what we already knew and they have just said to stay tuned for the imminent release of the official trailer, walkthroughs, and more exclusive sneak peaks. They also mentioned that they are adding additional new features and content and we now have no new date for a potential release.


So will it be out next Fall ?


----------



## John R Wilson

muziksculp said:


> So will it be out next Fall ?


  That would not surprise me. Maybe they meant fall 2021.


----------



## Tremendouz

If it gets delayed a lot I might actually be able to learn to use Hollywood Strings before the release of Opus. I've never seen such a confusing library before.


----------



## muziksculp

John R Wilson said:


> That would not surprise me. Maybe they meant fall 2021.


That's what I'm thinking. They just made a slight mistake/typo with the year, it was meant to be Fall 2021, rather than Fall 2020.


----------



## Mystic

RogiervG said:


> when is the walkthrough session? I don't see it on the namm website (or believeinmusic website, the sessions)
> 
> And the link please?


When I pull up today's NAMM video it's the same one from yesterday. :(


----------



## muziksculp

This Winter NAMM 2021 events are a Joke


----------



## RogiervG

Mystic said:


> When I pull up today's NAMM video it's the same one from yesterday. :(


hmmm.. i don't see it in the schedule either. (only an introduction session, same one as yesterday indeed)
why do people talk about the walkthrough being today..


----------



## John R Wilson

RogiervG said:


> hmmm.. i don't see it in the schedule either. (only an introduction session, same one as yesterday indeed)
> why do people talk about the walkthrough in this thread...


I think its because it initially showed a 1 hr slot at NAMM today, but that changed to 10 mins. Not sure if that was the case though or it it was always planned to be a 10 min slot today.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

This just in....


----------



## doctoremmet

Jeremy Spencer said:


> This just in....


Jeremy, you made my day

❤️


----------



## I like music

Jeremy Spencer said:


> This just in....


LOL!


----------



## doctoremmet

Oh no.... Q just mailed me....






Final day... y’all better just buy Diamond NOW


----------



## shponglefan

doctoremmet said:


> Final day...


----------



## doctoremmet

shponglefan said:


>


Deleted.

Ok apparently not only not funny, but also a good reason for some (not active in this thread btw) to send hateful messages. Totally not worth it. Hence deleted. Cheers! ❤️


----------



## Trash Panda

Not funny.


----------



## Trax

Tremendouz said:


> If it gets delayed a lot I might actually be able to learn to use Hollywood Strings before the release of Opus. I've never seen such a confusing library before.


What do you find confusing?


----------



## dzilizzi

shponglefan said:


>


The new 60% sale starts tomorrow. So, yes, this is the last day for this sale.


----------



## dzilizzi

Trax said:


> What do you find confusing?


The file names?


----------



## Tremendouz

Trax said:


> What do you find confusing?


I'm used to being able to access all articulations with keyswitches, plus the CCs vary between the patches, for example sometimes CC1 controls dynamics of a legato patch, sometimes vibrato. Also the CCs for each patch aren't listed in the GUI so I have to basically check the manual for such crucial info.


----------



## Trax

dzilizzi said:


> The file names?


It's explained in their walkthrough videos on YouTube.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Fa said:


> Yes, crystal clear and I agree.
> 
> Actually I'm with EW since they were still on Kompakt... I had Play 1 and all the following cr... ehm... sorry, the following players. Their samples are (not always but almost always) top quality, product concepts are brilliant and exclusive, and the company is innovative and passionate as you say.
> 
> On the other side I own several other companies products and I had close contact with their customer service and even their developers being a beta tester and demo makers. You are right business is business and often it's a critical point, but EW always won the "worst in class" position in my personal 15 years of experience.
> 
> Still it doesn't matter, as I wrote and you also say, customer has the freedom of choice, buy it as it is, or don't buy it anymore. My post was about expectations, and the EW habits of playing with that on a borderline dark field of "close-to-unfair" communication style.


I fully get you though. What they did with launching the same video for the second day and then posting Introducing OPUS on Facebok is shady, but as you have expressed, I expected it as well.

So I was ready.


----------



## method1

I can wait, we don't need a HOOPUS 2077 situation.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

muziksculp said:


> So will it be out next Fall ?


This means they will have hit the right _season_ after all... Just putting the year in question


----------



## cqd

So no walkthrough?..

I don't mind having to wait a bit Tbh (well, my wallet doesn't..) and especially if it's to add a few finishing touches/final features like it sounded in the video...

I hope I'm not just being naive though..

(Although, beyond another month I'll start to get pissed, was psyched for today..)


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

muziksculp said:


> That's what I'm thinking. They just made a slight mistake/typo with the year, it was meant to be Fall 2021, rather than Fall 2020.


Must have been a new publishing intern, so they called a Board meeting and came up with the following:

Jim, I have a practical solution, but we are going to need to hold three press conferences and lay out a roadmap for this one

Edd: What is your plan?

Jim: Let's release it in Jan 2021 at NAMM... well sort of. Let's appear to release it

Edd: Ooook, where are you going with this?

Jim: Well, you remember the publisher we just hired? Who might have made a huge mistake with our customer base.

Edd: Yes

Jim: Well, they wrote Coming Fall 2020 instead of 2021, so since we are known for late release, let's use COVID delays to get those new subs and NAMM to cover our asses!

Edd: Thanks Jim, great work, I want this on my desk and in an email by noon so I can read the details to our planning team in the "best recording space in the world" over lunch

EW


----------



## MRmusic

If it sounds great and plays nice I will pay $1,000+ for it. There's a lot of new composers out there these days.


----------



## muziksculp

Well.. Fall 2021 is only nine months away, so just be a little more patient, and you will get to watch a more detailed video of Hoopus by then.


----------



## cqd

Did they actually say fall 2021?..


----------



## RogiervG

they said: "We're *close to release*! There's additional new features and content we are adding that we think everyone will be very excited about. In the meantime, stay tuned for the imminent release of the official trailer, walkthroughs, and more exclusive sneak peaks."

And: "After an introduction at online NAMM on January 21, It will* be released shortly after* with the new Opus software and a companion product Hollywood Orchestrator, a must-have tool for composers of every skill level who want to achieve that Hollywood blockbuster sound quickly."

So nobody knows exactly when...


----------



## Guffy

I guess the plan was to release it 21st, but obviously it's not ready yet.. 🤔
And what's with the "special offer" thing? There is no offer.


----------



## lettucehat

I think the special offer is a discount on upgrading to the Composer Cloud level that gives you the full HOOPUS.


----------



## cqd

Guffy said:


> I guess the plan was to release it 21st, but obviously it's not ready yet.. 🤔
> And what's with the "special offer" thing? There is no offer.


If you pre-order you can get the upgrade for more than the full price of the library..


----------



## Laddy

I just hope the new instruments are born out of a musical vision, and not just a business decision to get the maximum amount of money from all the (hundreds of thousands of?) people who own HOD and now want to upgrade to the new version, using the samples we already have. I think many are in the same boat here: we look forward to getting this library up to date, with updated and reordered patches, but we don't really need or want to spend a lot of money for the solo instruments and new recordings unless we "have" to. Without knowing the library too well personally, having bought it just a few weeks ago, it's not so clear to me why the new brass and 1. violins are needed, for instance (other than "It's different from the old ones", "top players" etc.). 

Hats off to EW if they actually make it possible to use the new features without buying the full upgrade, but I doubt it. I fear it will be more like if you don't upgrade, you just get access to the new player with the legacy patches (no updates on the patches), and a take it or leave it full upgrade.


----------



## ennbr

RogiervG said:


> hmmm.. i don't see it in the schedule either. (only an introduction session, same one as yesterday indeed)
> why do people talk about the walkthrough being today..


Because up until early this morning there was a 1 hour event planned for today and it was suddenly changed to 10 minutes


----------



## janila

Now they sent an email saying that you need all sections to upgrade but you can still get any that you are missing. Was there info about upgrades from Gold? The email said nothing about that.


----------



## BassClef

I just finished a live chat with EW. 

I asked if Opus was ready if I signed up now for the cloud. He said no. I asked if there was a projected release date. He said know and that they are still adding new features... will be available in the not to distant future. 

I asked about the lack of consistency in which CCs are used for various parameters. In other words and for instance, I'd like to see the same CC always used for vibrato across all instruments. Is that sort of thing part of the OPUS makeover? He said that the programming is the same, but in Opus when you load an instrument and look on the Play interface for it, it will list the specific Midi CCs and their controls per instrument 

I asked if those controls can be changed (customized) as in may other libraries today? He said that you can midi learn them on a different controllers, but I don't believe you can change the Midi CC functionality of the patch (Perhaps that could be added in the future if it isn't immediately in the library)

end of chat...


----------



## AndyP

BassClef said:


> I just finished a live chat with EW.
> 
> I asked if Opus was ready if I signed up now for the cloud. He said no. I asked if there was a projected release date. He said know and that they are still adding new features... will be available in the not to distant future.
> 
> I asked about the lack of consistency in which CCs are used for various parameters. In other words and for instance, I'd like to see the same CC always used for vibrato across all instruments. Is that sort of thing part of the OPUS makeover? He said that the programming is the same, but in Opus when you load an instrument and look on the Play interface for it, it will list the specific Midi CCs and their controls per instrument
> 
> I asked if those controls can be changed (customized) as in may other libraries today? He said that you can midi learn them on a different controllers, but I don't believe you can change the Midi CC functionality of the patch (Perhaps that could be added in the future if it isn't immediately in the library)
> 
> end of chat...


I suspect that they have left the CC assignment so that old projects can be used again without much effort. That makes sense from my point of view. For new projects you then change the CCs.


----------



## Pier

BassClef said:


> I asked if those controls can be changed (customized) as in may other libraries today? He said that you can midi learn them on a different controllers, but I don't believe you can change the Midi CC functionality of the patch (Perhaps that could be added in the future if it isn't immediately in the library)


In Ableton Live and Bitwig you can solve that by simply creating a macro which will always control one particular parameter of the device. Then you can configure a script or something to always control that macro with the same knob of your controller.


----------



## lettucehat

janila said:


> Now they sent an email saying that you need all sections to upgrade but you can still get any that you are missing. Was there info about upgrades from Gold? The email said nothing about that.


O wow, so grateful for the opportunity to purchase their products. This is turning into a joke, kinda worst case scenario in terms of using this update to shepherd people into subscriptions and bundles they don't want.


----------



## Trash Panda

If you purchase Hollywood Orchestra Diamond, do you get the option to install Gold on a second less powerful/more storage space-challenged machine? Asking for a friend.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Trash Panda said:


> If you purchase Hollywood Orchestra Diamond, do you get the option to install Gold on a second less powerful/more storage space-challenged machine? Asking for a friend.


Nope


----------



## Lazer42

TCMQL1 said:


> Man, if they're at a point where they're still adding features it doesn't feel right for them to use OPUS to advertise a sale on year-long composer cloud subscriptions, with a stated release date of January 21st, only to change it to just a NAMM reveal a few days beforehand. And then changing the slated hour long walkthrough video on the 22nd to just the 10 minute NAMM reveal video again.
> 
> I figured things were more at the small delay to iron out the last kinks stage.


I agree. I've always been a supporter as far as the "drama" goes - i.e., I tend to think people really overstate it. This new info out today is really leaving a bad taste in my mouth, though.


----------



## janila

lettucehat said:


> O wow, so grateful for the opportunity to purchase their products. This is turning into a joke, kinda worst case scenario in terms of using this update to shepherd people into subscriptions and bundles they don't want.


It’s obviously no coincidence that the sale was supposed to end the day before the pricing information on HOOPUS was supposed to be released. This is classic EW. They have good products. They could also have a good reputation if they wanted one.


----------



## JonSolo

This is the quote in the email:

"Please note, upgrades from Hollywood Orchestra to the upcoming Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition require you to have all four sections of Hollywood Orchestra. If you are missing sections, this is your opportunity to add them at these sale prices."

Whether or not this is true, the implied message of this is that it would be cheaper to fill in your missing pieces now and pay for the upgrade, than to pay full price. This is making it somewhat hopeful that the upgrade price will be reasonable. After all, we all would like to get the best price possible.

Still, not having it ready yet is a bit perplexing. I understand the delay late last year. The expectation of all of this is that it was supposed to be ready yesterday. I genuinely believe they wanted that too. It would be even nice to have some clarity as to why we did not get the promised walk-thru...even if it were slightly incomplete.

I think they found something tragic at the last minute and are scrambling to fix it.


----------



## janila

JonSolo said:


> This is the quote in the email:
> 
> "Please note, upgrades from Hollywood Orchestra to the upcoming Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition require you to have all four sections of Hollywood Orchestra. If you are missing sections, this is your opportunity to add them at these sale prices."
> 
> Whether or not this is true, the implied message of this is that it would be cheaper to fill in your missing pieces now and pay for the upgrade, than to pay full price. This is making it somewhat hopeful that the upgrade price will be reasonable. After all, we all would like to get the best price possible.
> 
> Still, not having it ready yet is a bit perplexing. I understand the delay late last year. The expectation of all of this is that it was supposed to be ready yesterday. I genuinely believe they wanted that too. It would be even nice to have some clarity as to why we did not get the promised walk-thru...even if it were slightly incomplete.
> 
> I think they found something tragic at the last minute and are scrambling to fix it.


You are obviously quite new to EW. 😄


----------



## JonSolo

janila said:


> You are obviously quite new to EW. 😄


No... I have been using their products for at least 12 years. I guess I just have not discussed them as a company on forums that much. 

Of course I also don't anticipate products much. I usually go with what I have. This one just caught my attention.


----------



## Tremendouz

Trash Panda said:


> If you purchase Hollywood Orchestra Diamond, do you get the option to install Gold on a second less powerful/more storage space-challenged machine? Asking for a friend.


Nope, and it's worth noting that Diamond is very RAM hungry so I'd say 32GB minimum, 64GB comfortable usage without worries. For example a first violins legato patch with slur + portamento can take 800-1100MB RAM per mic position and that's not even one of the "powerful system" patches.

EDIT: Regarding storage, you can always remove all but one mic position afterwards but you cant select which ones to download obviously.


----------



## Johnny

At least if we didn't catch the last two years of news? I now know that East West is releasing Spaces 2 and HW Choirs + word builder, and I watched the walkthrus... PS: I might have clicked on the NAMM 2020 calendar by mistake... Nope... I didn't... Whew...


----------



## BasariStudios

janila said:


> Now they sent an email saying that you need all sections to upgrade but you can still get any that you are missing. Was there info about upgrades from Gold? The email said nothing about that.


3 support agents told me that upgrading from a single section. Won't be possible.


----------



## BasariStudios

Johnny said:


> At least if we didn't catch the last two years of news? I now know that East West is releasing Spaces 2 and HW Choirs + word builder, and I watched the walkthrus... PS: I might have clicked on the NAMM 2020 calendar by mistake... Nope... I didn't... Whew...


Wasn't Spaces 2 released like...over a year ago?


----------



## janila

JonSolo said:


> No... I have been using their products for at least 12 years. I guess I just have not discussed them as a company on forums that much.
> 
> Of course I also don't anticipate products much. I usually go with what I have. This one just caught my attention.


Ok. It’s just that reasonable upgrade prices and delivering on a published release date aren’t things that EW do.


----------



## lettucehat

janila said:


> It’s obviously no coincidence that the sale was supposed to end the day before the pricing information on HOOPUS was supposed to be released. This is classic EW. They have good products. They could also have a good reputation if they wanted one.


Well I am willing to bet those sales come right back, that is if they even end in the first place. They aren't stupid, they wouldn't couple a price hike with an announcement that you need to have all the sections. I know they'll be fine with or without the disgruntled VI-C users' money, but this recent news, if true, is really shitty. And all, I assume, to better compete with Spitfire for the "I'm just getting into music with VSTs, I heard Spitfire/EastWest are good, what orchestra should I get" consumer. Good luck!


----------



## Kevinside

EW´s communication is just horrible...sry... Slowly, this becomes a big joke...This should never be the way to treat your loyal customers, who are the only reason, why East West as a company is still alive...
If there is a problem with the release... Its ok, but then, the first thing should be, to be honest to all the customers...You don´t believe it, but there some people out there, who have to plan their investemts...
And yes, sample libraries are not cheap... Please EW, give us a roadmap, so we can have a perspective... Whats the problem with that...


----------



## janila

lettucehat said:


> They aren't stupid, they wouldn't couple a price hike with an announcement that you need to have all the sections.


No. But they are going to sell expensive upgrades to HOOPUS for all who took the bait. The new users get basicly the same price without spending a dime for the old product.


----------



## szczaw

janila said:


> No. But they are going to sell expensive upgrades to HOOPUS for all who took the bait. The new users get basicly the same price without spending a dime for the old product.


If that's the game they want to play, I'll get something else and wait until Opus is 60% off (providing user feedback is overwhelmingly positive).


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Tremendouz said:


> Nope, and it's worth noting that Diamond is very RAM hungry so I'd say 32GB minimum, 64GB comfortable usage without worries. For example a first violins legato patch with slur + portamento can take 800-1100MB RAM per mic position and that's not even one of the "powerful system" patches.
> 
> EDIT: Regarding storage, you can always remove all but one mic position afterwards but you cant select which ones to download obviously.


This is exactly why I’ve always been a Gold guy. And isn’t Diamond something like 700GB?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

szczaw said:


> If that's the game they want to play, I'll get something else and wait until Opus is 60% off (providing user feedback is overwhelmingly positive).


Fear not, they usually have a Valentines Day sale.


----------



## Wlad

Jeremy Spencer said:


> This is exactly why I’ve always been a Gold guy. And isn’t Diamond something like 700GB?


Yes, 700-ish GB.


----------



## Tremendouz

Jeremy Spencer said:


> This is exactly why I’ve always been a Gold guy. And isn’t Diamond something like 700GB?


Correct. I'm probably going to delete some of the 5 mic positions though (plus I didn't download the woodwinds in the first place)


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

BassClef said:


> I just finished a live chat with EW.
> 
> I asked if Opus was ready if I signed up now for the cloud. He said no. I asked if there was a projected release date. He said know and that they are still adding new features... will be available in the not to distant future.
> 
> I asked about the lack of consistency in which CCs are used for various parameters. In other words and for instance, I'd like to see the same CC always used for vibrato across all instruments. Is that sort of thing part of the OPUS makeover? He said that the programming is the same, but in Opus when you load an instrument and look on the Play interface for it, it will list the specific Midi CCs and their controls per instrument
> 
> I asked if those controls can be changed (customized) as in may other libraries today? He said that you can midi learn them on a different controllers, but I don't believe you can change the Midi CC functionality of the patch (Perhaps that could be added in the future if it isn't immediately in the library)
> 
> end of chat...


Really? That makes me sad. I have a bad feeling about this.

Somehow it confirms what I was thinking of when looking at the "new" (same/near identical) interface. On the left you can see the CC numbers, great, but they are still without visual representation (e.g. fader or button). Programming is the same? Does this mean we still have to manually change modwheel, vibrato and expression? I thought this and other things were part of the make-over.

I really fear that it's the case:

Example #1: Woodwinds interface. You have Expression (11) and Mod Wheel (1). You still don't know which CC controls what. They could have at least renamed the CCs to "Vibrato" and "Dynamics" or something like this.
Example #2: If you look in the video at 3:34 you can see the Celli Shorts MOD SPEED patch. I couldn't stop smiling, because it's still called the same, which means it will be controlled by the modwheel. Oh, my. I thought of other controlling options, something innovative, smart, maybe a performance patch like the ones Spitfire has. What did the two Wolfgangs do? I mean, keyswitches as "the" feature this is basic stuff. What's the new script language all about?

If the CC assignments will be the same, I don't really know if I want (to pay for) this update.


----------



## dcoscina

You don't wanna know what Anne Katherin Dern says about EW HO stuff in LA.


----------



## Lazer42

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Really? That makes me sad. I have a bad feeling about this.
> 
> Somehow it confirms what I was thinking of when looking at the "new" (same/near identical) interface. On the left you can see the CC numbers, great, but they are still without visual representation (e.g. fader or button). Programming is the same? Does this mean we still have to manually change modwheel, vibrato and expression? I thought this and other things were part of the make-over.
> 
> I really fear that it's the case:
> 
> Example #1: Woodwinds interface. You have Expression (11) and Mod Wheel (1). You still don't know which CC controls what. They could have at least renamed the CCs to "Vibrato" and "Dynamics" or something like this.
> Example #2: If you look in the video at 3:34 you can see the Celli Shorts MOD SPEED patch. I couldn't stop smiling, because it's still called the same, which means it will be controlled by the modwheel. Oh, my. I thought of other controlling options, something innovative, smart, maybe a performance patch like the ones Spitfire has. What did the two Wolfgangs do? I mean, keyswitches as "the" feature this is basic stuff. What's the new script language all about?
> 
> If the CC assignments will be the same, I don't really know if I want (to pay for) this update.


It's been fairly obvious to me that this new player is really just Play reskinned. Maybe I'll be proven wrong. I hope so!

Also, if they really did just reskin Play and add new features like key-switches, that would be fine and a welcome update. The issue would be if that's all they did but they're promoting it as an all new interface.


----------



## tc9000

View attachment 43520


----------



## muziksculp

janila said:


> Now they sent an email saying that you need all sections to upgrade but you can still get any that you are missing. Was there info about upgrades from Gold? The email said nothing about that.


I didn't get this email, did you get it today ? 

But, anyways.. we don't even know what the upgrade deal is if we have all sections. i.e. of HO Diamond, or Gold. 

i.e. I'm missing HO-Perc. Diamond, so still trying to decide if I should buy it at the discounted price showing up. or wait ?


----------



## tc9000

(Original source)


----------



## Guffy

If the player is just a reskin, why would they hire the two wolfgangs? Surely that could've been done with photoshop during a slow weekend at Nick's house.


----------



## muziksculp

I just got this email from EW.

Quote :

"Our 60% off sale ends today. This is your last chance to save 60% off all EastWest products during our New Year Specials. Please note, upgrades from Hollywood Orchestra to the upcoming Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition require you to have all four sections of Hollywood Orchestra. If you are missing sections, this is your opportunity to add them at these sale prices.

*— OR —*​
Get all 67 EastWest collections that include over 40,000 award-winning instruments plus upcoming new releases including Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition with a COMPOSERCLOUD X subscription for just $199 for the year while this special offer lasts! "


----------



## lettucehat

dcoscina said:


> in LA



What do you mean by the “in LA” part? I know she and EW are both in LA just wondering if I’m missing something.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

So at least they are providing a _bit_ more info than before. You need full Hollywood Orchestra, but you do not need Solo Violin, Cello, and Harp to qualify for the Opus upgrade (which thankfully works for me since I have HO Diamond). Whether or not it is worth buying HO right now during their sale or waiting and buying Opus brand new is still not fully clarified.


----------



## dcoscina

lettucehat said:


> What do you mean by the “in LA” part? I know she and EW are both in LA just wondering if I’m missing something.


In one of her library YT walkthrus she mentioned how no one has EW stuff in their templates in LA. At least for the traditional orchestra stuff, and I think she said it's largely due to PLAY . I cannot remember if that was in her Brass video or Strings...


----------



## cqd

Maybe a few years ago.. really, I find play pretty much as good as kontakt..it absolutely pisses all over the spitfire player..


----------



## lettucehat

dcoscina said:


> In one of her library YT walkthrus she mentioned how no one has EW stuff in their templates in LA. At least for the traditional orchestra stuff, and I think she said it's largely due to PLAY . I cannot remember if that was in her Brass video or Strings...


Well it's definitely not true but it's clear that fewer and fewer are, as it's not as worth the headache as it used to be.


----------



## Evans

cqd said:


> Maybe a few years ago.. really, I find play pretty much as good as kontakt..it absolutely pisses all over the spitfire player..


I think that's fair, unless the Kontakt library is unlocked and lets you go behind the Wrench.


----------



## Mystic

I like Play a lot, actually. I don't understand why so many people don't like it. Very straight forward and clean.


----------



## Lazer42

I think the thing with Play all comes down to preconception. It was, apparently, very buggy and crashed a lot when first launched. Many people take that impression and speak as though it's been like that ever since.

By the time I started using it - around v4 - it was fine. I've never had a single problem with it in terms of stability. I think if you used it back in the early days you are more likely to think it's awful, whereas if you only ever used versions after it was in good shape you don't get what thr bad reputation is all about.


----------



## muziksculp

PLAY is still not a popular player, maybe OPUS will be more popular, but that needs to be earned.


----------



## Wlad

Kontakt aside, other players are only as popular as their libraries.


----------



## gst98

dcoscina said:


> In one of her library YT walkthrus she mentioned how no one has EW stuff in their templates in LA. At least for the traditional orchestra stuff, and I think she said it's largely due to PLAY . I cannot remember if that was in her Brass video or Strings...


Well not _entirely_ true - everyone and their mum has the EWQL Harp and/or Cymbals in their template (Jeff Russo, John Powell, JXL etc) and there are plenty of games you can hear them in. Spitfire even have a video of going through the It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia score and it is all HWO pretty much. In fact JXL has a load of EW perc if I recall.

And yes I'm sure Play is the biggest reason, the early versions will have put a lot of people off. But you have to remember that LA composers who are going to be re-recording parts and only use samples to mockup care far more about workflow than sound. Things like SSO and CSS that house everything more consistenly with far less resources under one umbrella are much easier to use. And that is what they care about far above anything else under time pressure.

So its not that they don't use it because it sound bad, it just uses an insane amount of resources, can be harder to program (even though it offers more control), has some inconsitent articulations and its very hard to overcome first impressions of a player.


----------



## cqd

Is the harp any good?...even if I don't get the cello and violin I'm still half considering the harp..


----------



## Audio Birdi

cqd said:


> Is the harp any good?...even if I don't get the cello and violin I'm still half considering the harp..


Apparently you just need the 4 sections of HO rather than the individual solo instruments. I enjoy using the harp in HO  plenty of articulations.


----------



## JTB

cqd said:


> Is the harp any good?...even if I don't get the cello and violin I'm still half considering the harp..


It's quite noisy, as in hissy. Support told me to cut the highs @ 2.4k by 3dB IIRC.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

janila said:


> Now they sent an email saying that you need all sections to upgrade but you can still get any that you are missing. Was there info about upgrades from Gold? The email said nothing about that.


What email is this?


----------



## Trax

cqd said:


> Is the harp any good?...even if I don't get the cello and violin I'm still half considering the harp..


I pulled the trigger on it. Although it doesn't seem that people love it. But I noped out of the Solo Cello and Violin


----------



## Tremendouz

From what little I've been using Play, it seems solid so far but I *really* hope Opus will have proper purge functions like Kontakt does.


----------



## muziksculp

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> What email is this?


I got this email today as well :

QUOTE : 

_"Our 60% off sale ends today. This is your last chance to save 60% off all EastWest products during our New Year Specials. Please note, upgrades from Hollywood Orchestra to the upcoming Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition require you to have all four sections of Hollywood Orchestra. If you are missing sections, this is your opportunity to add them at these sale prices.
_
_*— OR —*_​_
Get all 67 EastWest collections that include over 40,000 award-winning instruments plus upcoming new releases including Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition with a COMPOSERCLOUD X subscription for just $199 for the year while this special offer lasts!"_


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Mystic said:


> I like Play a lot, actually. I don't understand why so many people don't like it. Very straight forward and clean.


Yes, the hatred of PLAY has always confused me. Unless you are someone who wants to mess with the “under the hood” stuff, (more power to you if that’s you) using it is pretty similar to most Kontakt libraries.


----------



## muziksculp

Just changing the name from PLAY to OPUS is a good first step


----------



## dzilizzi

Johnny said:


> At least if we didn't catch the last two years of news? I now know that East West is releasing Spaces 2 and HW Choirs + word builder, and I watched the walkthrus... PS: I might have clicked on the NAMM 2020 calendar by mistake... Nope... I didn't... Whew...


Well those are ready to buy at the end of the presentation. 

I thought maybe they were new videos, which would at least been useful. But they were the same old ones already on YouTube.


----------



## dzilizzi

curtisschweitzer said:


> Yes, the hatred of PLAY has always confused me. Unless you are someone who wants to mess with the “under the hood” stuff, (more power to you if that’s you) using it is pretty similar to most Kontakt libraries.


I believe the hatred related to the early versions of Play. I heard a lot of horror stories when I first bought it. But my first purchase came with Play 5, which has been pretty solid.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

dzilizzi said:


> I believe the hatred related to the early versions of Play. I heard a lot of horror stories when I first bought it. But my first purchase came with Play 5, which has been pretty solid.


Been using it since v3 (I think?) and often on much less powerful hardware than I do today and still always been happy. I can understand people wanting a purge function, but aside from that I have way more problems (to this day) with Kontakt-based libraries than I do PLAY. (Or, for that matter, the unfairly maligned Spitfire player).


----------



## AndyP

I am very satisfied with Play. I have my HO Diamond template and can live with it just fine.
The more I think about Opus, the more I am interested in the "improvements" to the existing HO content. For example, the Woodwinds and the legato patches, better balance.
If nothing has changed in the organization of the existing HO patches, I see the real benefit more in improved scripting and the new instruments. The question for me is how much I am willing to pay for it.
I don't really miss anything, and for that I have enough other good libraries that compensate for what HO can't do so well.

The essential question I have to answer for myself is, will OPUS offer something I don't already have? 
Without details and videos my interest wears off a bit. I also find it a bit disappointing when things are announced several times and then postponed without giving any reason. Not so confidence inspiring if I'm honest.
It's like buying a car without a test drive and product details. Who does that (yes, we all do it from time to time)? Therefore, I find it brave when someone has taken out a subscription because of OPUS.

At least Spitfire is not alone with its marketing when it comes to the critical view of some users. Just today, after listening to CDT more closely and watching the videos, I thought, I don't need that, I can achieve that quickly with existing resources.

However, there is no compulsion to act and if it is good and the price is right it is an option to buy.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

purple said:


> You sure that's not on your end?


yep


----------



## Wlad

NeonMediaKJT said:


> yep


People are not aware that Hollywood Orchestra has a general problem with micro pops and clicks. I think it's PLAY engine's problem. Its crossfade between samples is not working as intended and thus clicks and pops are present.


----------



## AllanH

dcoscina said:


> You don't wanna know what Anne Katherin Dern says about EW HO stuff in LA.


That would be a fun video and I'd love hearing her opinion


----------



## Guffy

Good thing some of us want our templates to be catered to us specifically. Why would you care what someone in LA uses?
That being said, im sure alot of LA based composers use PLAY, regardless of what one individual says.


----------



## dcoscina

AllanH said:


> That would be a fun video and I'd love hearing her opinion


It’s out there already. I think it’s her Brass library video where she mentions EW


----------



## RSK

dcoscina said:


> In one of her library YT walkthrus she mentioned how no one has EW stuff in their templates in LA. At least for the traditional orchestra stuff, and I think she said it's largely due to PLAY . I cannot remember if that was in her Brass video or Strings...


Brian Tyler has EW in his template, but he has literally everything in that. It’s ridiculous.


----------



## José Herring

dcoscina said:


> In one of her library YT walkthrus she mentioned how no one has EW stuff in their templates in LA. At least for the traditional orchestra stuff, and I think she said it's largely due to PLAY . I cannot remember if that was in her Brass video or Strings...


She is full o' shyte with that statement.


----------



## dcoscina

José Herring said:


> She is full o' shyte with that statement.


You know I could be paraphrasing what she said. Maybe it was more like the studios she interned or worked at didn't use EW.


----------



## Johnny

dzilizzi said:


> Well those are ready to buy at the end of the presentation.
> 
> I thought maybe they were new videos, which would at least been useful. But they were the same old ones already on YouTube.


Same here... I wonder why they backed out of the walkthru of Opus?


----------



## Johnny

BasariStudios said:


> Wasn't Spaces 2 released like...over a year ago?


Yup... My sadistic sense of humor...


----------



## Dave Connor

Am I right that the announcement that you can only upgrade by owning all four orchestral libraries (I have Diamond Strings and Brass) was last minute?

I’ve been thinking all these weeks I was going to be able to upgrade my two libraries to Opus.


----------



## cqd

Dave Connor said:


> I’ve been thinking all these weeks I was going to be able to upgrade my two libraries to Opus.


No, I think that was made clear early on..

I must say after getting the harp..I'm quite liking it.. haven't played with it in my template yet, but I've a feeling it will be my go to..


----------



## Jaap

Dave Connor said:


> Am I right that the announcement that you can only upgrade by owning all four orchestral libraries (I have Diamond Strings and Brass) was last minute?
> 
> I’ve been thinking all these weeks I was going to be able to upgrade my two libraries to Opus.


Yes I was umder that impression too. Quite suprised to read this


----------



## JTB

While EW are in the spotlight, I would like to query why with the iLok system, we can't sell these libraries on?. If I deactivate a product in my iLok account and someone else activates it on their computer in their iLok account, what is the problem with that?
I recently rebuilt my computer and had to do exactly the above and it went without a hitch. So in theory we could actually do this.

Who wants to buy some EW products?


----------



## VSriHarsha

dzilizzi said:


> There's not much on the NAMM site.


You’re right! And it’s not available, yet, to buy, I think. And many ARE looking forward to it. Do you have any of their libraries?

I did not buy any of theirs but always having mixed thoughts coz it’s another plugin. Kontakt libraries are like quick go on but I tend to think a little if it’s away from kontakt. Yet, for sure, am tempted. Maybe Opus WILL impress me.

Do you like the workflow of Play? Is it possible to make it use less resources?

I am actually asking coz every time I check their demos or walkthrus, I get tempted but in no time it goes off my mind.


----------



## Crossroads

José Herring said:


> She is full o' shyte with that statement.


Yep. East West are some of the most used libraries in LA or in the whole of film and games in general. You never hear them talk about it, but if there's one company in almost all actual working composers templates, it's EW. They have a pedigree.

You do realise that despite everything the Hollywood Orchestra Diamond as is is still the most fully featured orchestra out there with an almost unbeatable flexibility?

Oh, and who?

The magic in it is that you hear it everywhere around you. And yet you never ''hear'' it 

This forum is not a reflection of the real, actual working world. It's just a snapshot. And a very biased snapshot at that. Always remember that.

So biased that people here believe truly that for example Native Instruments Symphony Series is a bad library. It's not. At all. It's awesome. But going by this forum's opinion you'd think NI stole people's lunch money or something.


----------



## Michael Antrum

JTB said:


> While EW are in the spotlight, I would like to query why with the iLok system, we can't sell these libraries on?. If I deactivate a product in my iLok account and someone else activates it on their computer in their iLok account, what is the problem with that?
> I recently rebuilt my computer and had to do exactly the above and it went without a hitch. So in theory we could actually do this.
> 
> Who wants to buy some EW products?


...and how will you move the licence to a different ilok account ?

Besides, you agreed to the license when you purchased the software (even if that agreement were implicit rather than something you actually agreed to) and therefore shouldn't be breaking it.


----------



## Tremendouz

JTB said:


> why with the iLok system, we can't sell these libraries on?


Because they don't want us to do that. It might be because they fear that it would reduce their sales. It seems that by this point everyone and their dog owns hollywood orchestra and there must be plenty of people who have replaced it with something easier to use.

iLok isn't something that stops license transfers indeed. There's a quite sizable fee though for transferring (I think $20 bucks?)


----------



## Tremendouz

Michael Antrum said:


> ...and how will you move the licence to a different ilok account ?


FYI, iLok licenses are transferrable in general, it's up to the developer whether they allow it, not iLok.


----------



## JonSolo

Michael Antrum said:


> ...and how will you move the licence to a different ilok account ?
> 
> Besides, you agreed to the license when you purchased the software (even if that agreement were implicit rather than something you actually agreed to) and therefore shouldn't be breaking it.


You pay a $25 fee to move a license from one account to the other. On two or more transfers it is $50 per transaction. Edited for correctness, heh.

There are exceptions and permissions required with some licenses.

Jon


----------



## gst98

Crossroads said:


> Yep. East West are some of the most used libraries in LA or in the whole of film and games in general. You never hear them talk about it, but if there's one company in almost all actual working composers templates, it's EW. They have a pedigree.
> 
> You do realise that despite everything the Hollywood Orchestra Diamond as is is still the most fully featured orchestra out there with an almost unbeatable flexibility?
> 
> Oh, and who?
> 
> The magic in it is that you hear it everywhere around you. And yet you never ''hear'' it
> 
> This forum is not a reflection of the real, actual working world. It's just a snapshot. And a very biased snapshot at that. Always remember that.
> 
> So biased that people here believe truly that for example Native Instruments Symphony Series is a bad library. It's not. At all. It's awesome. But going by this forum's opinion you'd think NI stole people's lunch money or something.


There are so many people who talk down regarding EW on Facebook Groups and I just never understand what they are talking about.

Of course it's all personal preference, but the number one thing I hear is _"HWO sounds dated"_.
You mean shawn murphy's mixes sound dated? I guess I better stop listening to all that John Williams then if thats the case.

Is the sound dated because it has more dynamic layers than anything recorded since? The legato is still really good by todays standards as well. I can understand if people don't like play, but that is about it. They then say go and buy BBCSO which has far fewer layers, RRs and I don't know if the legato is much better (don't own it).

Also, I always thought the NI Symphony strings had a really nice tone to them but people seem to detest them, yet MSS is the second coming of Jesus.


----------



## Michael Antrum

JonSolo said:


> You pay a $25 fee to move a license from one account to the other. On two or more transfers it is $50 per transaction. Edited for correctness, heh.
> 
> There are exceptions and permissions required with some licenses.
> 
> Jon


Only if the developer allows ilok to transfer it......


----------



## Michael Antrum

Tremendouz said:


> FYI, iLok licenses are transferrable in general, it's up to the developer whether they allow it, not iLok.


Exactly the point I was making.....


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

JTB said:


> While EW are in the spotlight, I would like to query why with the iLok system, we can't sell these libraries on?. If I deactivate a product in my iLok account and someone else activates it on their computer in their iLok account, what is the problem with that?
> I recently rebuilt my computer and had to do exactly the above and it went without a hitch. So in theory we could actually do this.
> 
> Who wants to buy some EW products?


You cannot sell EW products. It’s clear in their EULA. Otherwise, you’d be doing so fraudulently.


----------



## Tremendouz

Michael Antrum said:


> Exactly the point I was making.....


Oh my bad, your wording made me think you thought there was some technical barrier with iLok.


----------



## sIR dORT

gst98 said:


> There are so many people who talk down regarding EW on Facebook Groups and I just never understand what they are talking about.
> 
> Of course it's all personal preference, but the number one thing I hear is _"HWO sounds dated"_.
> You mean shawn murphy's mixes sound dated? I guess I better stop listening to all that John Williams then if thats the case.
> 
> Is the sound dated because it has more dynamic layers than anything recorded since? The legato is still really good by todays standards as well. I can understand if people don't like play, but that is about it. They then say go and buy BBCSO which has far fewer layers, RRs and I don't know if the legato is much better (don't own it).
> 
> Also, I always thought the NI Symphony strings had a really nice tone to them but people seem to detest them, yet MSS is the second coming of Jesus.


Yea I've never really understood this either. I feel like I'm turning into the guy who defends a library to the death, but I hear pieces created with other full orchestral packages, and most of the time I'm thinking that I could probably get HWO to get sound better. That's not to sound prideful at all, it's more to say that you can get so much out of it. Play is missing lots of features, but now that OPUS is coming out, it's looking like that argument isn't viable. Yes, the organization isn't great of the samples, but again, OPUS will probably fix that. 

At this point I might as well put "EW fanboy" in my disc because I feel so biased, but I really think that it's that good.


----------



## dzilizzi

VSriHarsha said:


> You’re right! And it’s not available, yet, to buy, I think. And many ARE looking forward to it. Do you have any of their libraries?
> 
> I did not buy any of theirs but always having mixed thoughts coz it’s another plugin. Kontakt libraries are like quick go on but I tend to think a little if it’s away from kontakt. Yet, for sure, am tempted. Maybe Opus WILL impress me.
> 
> Do you like the workflow of Play? Is it possible to make it use less resources?
> 
> I am actually asking coz every time I check their demos or walkthrus, I get tempted but in no time it goes off my mind.


I originally bought HWB & HWS Gold. I was told the winds weren't that great, so I got VSL SE winds instead. Sound was good but the but it is a little overwhelming for a beginner. There are multiple instruments of everything. The file names can be confusing at first when you don't understand just how many instruments can be in an orchestra. And how many different staccatos do you need? (I know, I know, all of them and more) But until you understand what you need? It's too much and not easy to figure out. There are layers of folders to get to the instruments. It takes time. 

I picked up the full Diamond version when it first went 60% off a couple years ago. I still mostly only use some of the Strings and Brass patches. You do get a lot for your money. Play is not a real issue, however, it is so much easier to use my Spitfire Orchestra with keyswitches for me.


----------



## EwigWanderer

So is it so that if you have all four sections (diamond) you will get opus upgrade for free? But if you are missing one section you have to pay full price? I mean doesn’t it count anything that you have for example three sections?

EW should be more transparent about these things. There are some of us that don’t have extra money to spend.


----------



## Tremendouz

EwigWanderer said:


> So is it so that if you have all four sections (diamond) you will get opus upgrade for free?


Where did you hear that? As far as I know there's no upgrade price announced but we know that you need to have all four to be eligible for the unknown upgrade price in the first place.


----------



## MauroPantin

The information posted here regarding pricing, upgrades, requirements for said upgrades, etc. is mostly speculation. Hell, even the statements provided by EW support are not exactly consistent with each other. 

Furthermore, there is no real news, even though Jan 21st was supposed to be the big day. I'm sure there are people out there that pulled the trigger on the CC subscription with the idea of getting access to OPUS two days ago.

I love my HO, it sounds fantastic. But EW needs to do better in the communication department, this is pretty bad as far as managing people's expectations is concerned. Maybe take a hint from the MSS thread.


----------



## Evans

MauroPantin said:


> The information posted here regarding pricing, upgrades, requirements for said upgrades, etc. is mostly speculation. Hell, even the statements provided by EW support are not exactly consistent with each other.
> 
> Furthermore, there is no real news, even though Jan 21st was supposed to be the big day. I'm sure there are people out there that pulled the trigger on the CC subscription with the idea of getting access to OPUS two days ago.
> 
> I love my HO, it sounds fantastic. But EW needs to do better in the communication department, this is pretty bad as far as managing people's expectations is concerned. Maybe take a hint from the MSS thread.


I think the first two sentences of your post should be in bold, all caps, and stickied.


----------



## janila

My personal take on EW. In 2016 when PLAY 5 was released (and after using PLAY for almost five years) I wrote the following:

”This is the way PLAY should have been from the beginning. All those years I've seen my setup as clunky, slow and unstable. Kontakt ran circles around PLAY but the chain is as strong as the weakest link. Now the exactly same setup feels light, fast and reliable. I still can't fix the faults in the libraries or make them suit my workflow better but now it works.”

Today Spaces II costs $159 and the upgrade from Spaces I costs $184.

This is the EW I know. I still love the sound of HO strings and some brass and percussion, I just can’t stand the company. Everything about HOOPUS says nothing has changed.


----------



## EwigWanderer

Tremendouz said:


> Where did you hear that? As far as I know there's no upgrade price announced but we know that you need to have all four to be eligible for the unknown upgrade price in the first place.


I’m just confused while reading this thread. And too busy to think things over while playing with my kids


----------



## Laddy

I think it's not very nice to push/persuade people to complete their HOD collections (last chance!) without giving even a hint about the upgrade price, especially if it turns out to be on the expensive side (above 3-400). Is it the old foot-in-the-door technique?


----------



## Johnny

gst98 said:


> There are so many people who talk down regarding EW on Facebook Groups and I just never understand what they are talking about.
> 
> Of course it's all personal preference, but the number one thing I hear is _"HWO sounds dated"_.
> You mean shawn murphy's mixes sound dated? I guess I better stop listening to all that John Williams then if thats the case.
> 
> Is the sound dated because it has more dynamic layers than anything recorded since? The legato is still really good by todays standards as well. I can understand if people don't like play, but that is about it. They then say go and buy BBCSO which has far fewer layers, RRs and I don't know if the legato is much better (don't own it).
> 
> Also, I always thought the NI Symphony strings had a really nice tone to them but people seem to detest them, yet MSS is the second coming of Jesus.


It is evident humans are forgetting how to hear. This has been prominent in the entertainment industry for decades, the regression in how to listen... At one time we would go enjoy a live orchestral performance, (which we still do) but in a proper music hall, designed professionally to reflect and amplify sound waves- hence at one point humans designed marvels like the amphitheater back in the Shakespeare era. You could drop a pin during the theater performance and everyone would know that you interrupted the performance, because they were all listening intently and enjoying every nuance. Now we mic the hell out of an orchestra, blast the hell out our ears in mono speakers at performances, and somehow feel like we received our $120.00's worth of entertainment to watch Kingdom Hearts Live and Game of Thrones Live? (Which are my guilty pleasures of course  Respect to those two shows among others!) But as a result, things are getting louder and more processed and this is evident in mixes too. Take the "loudness war" for example? I'm sure someone has written a dissertation or 30 on this topic? Anyhow, in samples especially, I do feel like we are forgetting how to hear... Like Jay Asher has brought up over a million times, (I listened, and he's 100% correct!) he'll reach for the Vintage mics in EW HW series before even thinking about an EQ knob. And if those mics don't do it? Dial in some spot mics. Because yes!!! HW Series gave us sectional spot mics!!! And now how many Hyped up libraries are coming out that just do not sound natural, yet the younger gen is eating them up and don't seem to notice at all- or care  (I'm looking at you Jaeger  Which has the greatest Solo Soprano I've ever owned btw ;p) My rant being, I'll take Williams live or on recording any day of the week! And in total agreeance! HW Series still sounds the best to my ears, because it sounds like a Shawn Murphy recorded orchestra, (Oof) well that is because it is  Haha, Cheers guys!


----------



## ShidoStrife

EwigWanderer said:


> I’m just confused while reading this thread. And too busy to think things over while playing with my kids


I believe that latest email implies that having all four sections separately is considered the same as owning the Hollywood Orchestra bundle, so they're urging those who only have some sections to "complete" their collection. Before that email, it was understood that there is upgrade path from Hollywood Orchestra but not from individual sections.


----------



## EwigWanderer

ShidoStrife said:


> I believe that latest email implies that having all four sections separately is considered the same as owning the Hollywood Orchestra bundle, so they're urging those who only have some sections to "complete" their collection. Before that email, it was understood that there is upgrade path from Hollywood Orchestra but not from individual sections.


That’s too bad. But understandable though. No opus for me then.


----------



## BasariStudios

janila said:


> My personal take on EW. In 2016 when PLAY 5 was released (and after using PLAY for almost five years) I wrote the following:
> 
> ”This is the way PLAY should have been from the beginning. All those years I've seen my setup as clunky, slow and unstable. Kontakt ran circles around PLAY but the chain is as strong as the weakest link. Now the exactly same setup feels light, fast and reliable. I still can't fix the faults in the libraries or make them suit my workflow better but now it works.”
> 
> Today Spaces II costs $159 and the upgrade from Spaces I costs $184.
> 
> This is the EW I know. I still love the sound of HO strings and some brass and percussion, I just can’t stand the company. Everything about HOOPUS says nothing has changed.


Hollywood Brass Diamond 159$. Upgrade from Gold 184$.


----------



## muziksculp

Laddy said:


> I think it's not very nice to push/persuade people to complete their HOD collections (last chance!) without giving even a hint about the upgrade price, especially if it turns out to be on the expensive side (above 3-400).


Exactly. Why is the upgrade pricing still not posted ? why all the mystery, and speculation.

This is so unprofessional.

OH.. and they still have OPUS Coming Fall 2020 on their site.


----------



## Evans

What I think is nasty was the push to get in on the Cloud pricing, under the assumption that HOOPUS was coming on January 21st.

If I did that and EW pulled the rug out in the final week with no clear, new date for release, I'd be pretty peeved.


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder how many already subscribed to their cloud service, hoping that Hoopus will be out Jan. 21st ?


----------



## Fa

Guys did you notice the message on the main page?
"60% OFF sales ends today"

It was in place and true yesterday. It's still in place and true today. It will be true tomorrow. 

I hope it's not the same with the " the product will be released tomorrow..." 

(and tomorrow of tomorrow... and the day after tomorrow...)


----------



## jneebz

Fa said:


> They changed the statement suggesting or giving the impression of "to be released 21st January" to a pretty open and unclear "to be released shortly after the NAMM preview".


Don’t forget it all started with “Coming Fall 2020!”


----------



## muziksculp

Winter NAMM 2021 ends today Jan. 23rd.


----------



## Wlad

Summer NAMM it is then.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Maybe they'll include Forbidden Planet for early buyers!


----------



## Batwaffel

I have a feeling they found a major issue. It looks to me like they were set to do an hour long livestream showing off OPUS but something happened which caused them to make the decision to cancel it and hold off because if said bug happened during the live stream, it could come with consequences of people coming to conclusions based on that alone which happens all the time (just look at how people handle when bugs happen to games at E3) so it was smart for them to pull it if it was that big an issue. 

That said, they should have released a statement saying something along the lines of "We understand everyone is excited to see this new plugin in use but we found something that needs to be fixed. When we reveal this to you, we want to do so in the best possible way so we decided to not go forward with the livestream until we have a chance to fix the bug we found."

Something that simple would have saved a lot of face for the product because it lets people know why there was no stream and feels like they are at least trying to engage with their users which would be a huge leap for them since they aren't exactly known for being the most community engaging company.


----------



## Batwaffel

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Maybe they'll include Forbidden Planet for early buyers!


That is strictly forbidden.


----------



## szczaw

Eh, apparently they have no deadlines. In the intro video it was stated: last time, we had unlimited time


----------



## Johnny

Batwaffel said:


> I have a feeling they found a major issue. It looks to me like they were set to do an hour long livestream showing off OPUS but something happened which caused them to make the decision to cancel it and hold off because if said bug happened during the live stream, it could come with consequences of people coming to conclusions based on that alone which happens all the time (just look at how people handle when bugs happen to games at E3) so it was smart for them to pull it if it was that big an issue.
> 
> That said, they should have released a statement saying something along the lines of "We understand everyone is excited to see this new plugin in use but we found something that needs to be fixed. When we reveal this to you, we want to do so in the best possible way so we decided to not go forward with the livestream until we have a chance to fix the bug we found."
> 
> Something that simple would have saved a lot of face for the product because it lets people know why there was no stream and feels like they are at least trying to engage with their users which would be a huge leap for them since they aren't exactly known for being the most community engaging company.





Batwaffel said:


> I have a feeling they found a major issue. It looks to me like they were set to do an hour long livestream showing off OPUS but something happened which caused them to make the decision to cancel it and hold off because if said bug happened during the live stream, it could come with consequences of people coming to conclusions based on that alone which happens all the time (just look at how people handle when bugs happen to games at E3) so it was smart for them to pull it if it was that big an issue.
> 
> That said, they should have released a statement saying something along the lines of "We understand everyone is excited to see this new plugin in use but we found something that needs to be fixed. When we reveal this to you, we want to do so in the best possible way so we decided to not go forward with the livestream until we have a chance to fix the bug we found."
> 
> Something that simple would have saved a lot of face for the product because it lets people know why there was no stream and feels like they are at least trying to engage with their users which would be a huge leap for them since they aren't exactly known for being the most community engaging company.


Moments before the showcase, Doug heard CSWoodwinds, CSS Strings and JXL Brass not knowing they existed outside of the East West bubble... Then right before sound checking the live stream someone showed him Vista.


----------



## Jack All

I think it looks really promising. I'm sure that it will be a first class product. Not sure if I will buy it because I've already bought other orchestra samples - but it looks very tempting.

Regarding pricing: I'm sure East West knows exactly what they are doing. They know the prices already. Also for the price for upgrading. They just choose not to share it with us. I would prefer that they shared it with us already now. I think that is the only thing I don't like about this company. I own many of their products and they are top class. I never got problems with Play it works flawless on my Mac and has been doing so for many years.


----------



## jcrosby

This is pretty much how every EW product release goes. They're always months over deadline.


----------



## manuhz

To be honest, I did not expect something like this from a “serious” company lile EWQL. This is a very strange and ridiculous situation. In just 1 day I have lost my interest :(


----------



## NoamL

gst98 said:


> Of course it's all personal preference, but the number one thing I hear is _"HWO sounds dated"_.
> You mean shawn murphy's mixes sound dated? I guess I better stop listening to all that John Williams then if thats the case.


LOL why did no one call this out? Name one time Shawn Murphy or JW recorded at EW1. They record at Abbey Road, or SONY nowadays... both those stages are just about 200% the size of EW1!  in both actual size and sound...

HWS Diamond might be their best library and has a REALLY nice sound... but the more I've developed critical listening, the more the brass and percussion sound cramped in EW1 compared to other options.

Also EW's practice of selling 1-mic versions of their libraries is like putting out the worst possible version of their sounds (it's no better when other devs do it like Spitfire Studio Orch).

This video is really illustrative, both of the limitations of the room and the limitations of the Gold versions: (and I'm not slamming the mockup, Andrew knows his stuff!)



As compared to a multi-mic implementation of an orchestra recorded at AIR:



The thing about EW is that they are in their own little universe, they pay no attention to what everyone else is doing. So when EW advertises that they've done "A better X than has ever been done before" what it translates to is "the best X among our EastWest products." When they advertise that their libraries are now more controllable and standardized... that's going to mean "the EastWest version of that" not "we went and looked at Spitfire's UACC and Cinematic Studio's GUI and learned how far behind we are."

I have some limited experience working with / for pro composers and yes many of them do have EW products in their template. There are plenty of sounds in EWHO and especially EWQLSO that are so well recorded they'll be used forever. If you want a one-shot cymbal swell they were able to record that just as well in 2003 as in 2019. I have not met anyone who has a sound built entirely or mainly around EW sounds though.


----------



## Crossroads

What I do have to give to people is that East West would be wise to change the way they communicate. The world of business has moved on from the 90's, and what was normal then isn't normal now anymore. You communicate with your users. People like to feel involved. They like to be given attention. The kind of business where everything happened behind a closed wall are gone.

It's this arrogant kind of behaviour that started to eat away at Cubase sales. Steinberg have since changed. They have felt the influence of companies like Presonus, Cockos and Ableton. I'm thankful for this kind of competition. It ultimately made Cubase a better program.

It's the kind of behaviour that will eventually lead Digital Performer to it's death. MOTU might think they're still in the 90's, but new composers aren't interested in them anymore. Either go with the way things have changed or go the way of the dinosaur. It will happen.

This will also lead to the downfall of Pro Tools. Eventually only established LA based studios will cling to it. It's actually already kind of happening. The reach of Pro Tools is much smaller than people over there think. It's still there, but it's really not the 'industry standard' anymore despite what people say. It's only an 'industry standard' if the 'industry' is Hollywood or large studios. Indie studios, bedroom studios are a real and viable alternative in many cases. Ignore that, and you will get left behind. The golden age of Hollywood is gone.

In fact, the reach of LA as the center of entertainment is still large, but also rapidly declining. And the reason is a refusal to look at the rest of the world and change.

In fact, if you really wanna go philosophical one might say this is happening to the US as a whole, but that is a story for another time. But the pendulum is swinging the other way. Globalization happened.

So, East West should also take note. They are still very powerful, and they make quality products (just like all of the aforementioned software is still quality) but things can change. I have to admit that Spitfire's BBCSO was a stroke of genius. The person who came up with the pricing scheme should be employee of the decade.


----------



## Wlad

NoamL said:


> HWS Diamond might be their best library and has a REALLY nice sound... but the more I've developed critical listening, the more the brass and percussion sound cramped in EW1 compared to other options.
> 
> Also EW's practice of selling 1-mic versions of their libraries is like putting out the worst possible version of their sounds (it's no better when other devs do it like Spitfire Studio Orch).
> 
> This video is really illustrative, both of the limitations of the room and the limitations of the Gold versions: (and I'm not slamming the mockup, Andrew knows his stuff!)
> 
> 
> 
> As compared to a multi-mic implementation of an orchestra recorded at AIR:



I just love it when someone takes two different songs from two different mockup creators, with different reverbs, mix depth, dynamics, programming skills... and tries to make a point by comparing them.


----------



## gst98

NoamL said:


> LOL why did no one call this out? Name one time Shawn Murphy or JW recorded at EW1. They record at Abbey Road, or SONY nowadays... both those stages are just about 200% the size of EW1!  in both actual size and sound...
> 
> HWS Diamond might be their best library and has a REALLY nice sound... but the more I've developed critical listening, the more the brass and percussion sound cramped in EW1 compared to other options.
> 
> Also EW's practice of selling 1-mic versions of their libraries is like putting out the worst possible version of their sounds (it's no better when other devs do it like Spitfire Studio Orch).
> 
> The thing about EW is that they are in their own little universe, they pay no attention to what everyone else is doing. So when EW advertises that they've done "A better X than has ever been done before" what it translates to is "the best X among our EastWest products."
> 
> I have some limited experience working with / for pro composers and yes many of them do have EW products in their template. There are plenty of sounds in EWHO and especially EWQLSO that are so well recorded they'll be used forever. I have not met anyone who has a sound built entirely or mainly around EW sounds.


What do you mean? Artist are only artists when they record in one specific hall? Lol. Go watch Eddy Van Halen playing an acoustic guitar, it still sounds like EVH because every nuance and idiosyncrasy is still there. Same goes for the artistry in engineering.

Just becuase it is recorded at EW1 does not mean it is not a Shawn Murphy sound. The same way Alan Meyerson records all over the place and it still has 'his sound'. 
I can sort of see what you're trying to get at, but by that same thinking then why would you hire Shawn Murphy if only the room is important? I guess any old bloke at Abbey Road will get you the JW sound because engineering plays no part in the sound of an album?

FWIW, I think you missed the point of what I was saying, because I wasn't trying to imply that HWO is JW in a box, and I don't belive that at all and I agree with the room being too small (EWSO sounds nicer in terms of room sound imho). The point I was making was that it was recorded by a world class engineer who's work has stood the test of time, and saying the sound is out-dated would imply his other work would sounded too. The statment had little to do with JW, its just JW scores are ones everyone knows that Shawn Murphy engineered on.


----------



## muziksculp

Crossroads said:


> What I do have to give to people is that East West would be wise to change the way they communicate. The world of business has moved on from the 90's, and what was normal then isn't normal now anymore. You communicate with your users. People like to feel involved. They like to be given attention. The kind of business where everything happened behind a closed wall are gone.
> 
> It's this arrogant kind of behaviour that started to eat away at Cubase sales. Steinberg have since changed. They have felt the influence of companies like Presonus, Cockos and Ableton. I'm thankful for this kind of competition. It ultimately made Cubase a better program.
> 
> It's the kind of behaviour that will eventually lead Digital Performer to it's death. MOTU might think they're still in the 90's, but new composers aren't interested in them anymore. Either go with the way things have changed or go the way of the dinosaur. It will happen.
> 
> This will also lead to the downfall of Pro Tools. Eventually only established LA based studios will cling to it. It's actually already kind of happening. The reach of Pro Tools is much smaller than people over there think. It's still there, but it's really not the 'industry standard' anymore despite what people say. It's only an 'industry standard' if the 'industry' is Hollywood or large studios. Indie studios, bedroom studios are a real and viable alternative in many cases. Ignore that, and you will get left behind. The golden age of Hollywood is gone.
> 
> In fact, the reach of LA as the center of entertainment is still large, but also rapidly declining. And the reason is a refusal to look at the rest of the world and change.
> 
> In fact, if you really wanna go philosophical one might say this is happening to the US as a whole, but that is a story for another time. But the pendulum is swinging the other way. Globalization happened.
> 
> So, East West should also take note. They are still very powerful, and they make quality products (just like all of the aforementioned software is still quality) but things can change. I have to admit that Spitfire's BBCSO was a stroke of genius. The person who came up with the pricing scheme should be employee of the decade.


Awesome post. Totally agree with you.

Even VSL has changed a lot lately, they have a very active company rep to help users on this forum. That was not the case in the past, they understand that things have changed, and are smart enough to change as well.

Communicating with your users, and potential customers is a must these days, being arrogant, and not bothering to communicate with them is a dumb thing to do if you are in business in 2021. I hope EW moves forward, and is not stuck in the 90's business model, and attitude.


----------



## Crossroads

muziksculp said:


> Awesome post. Totally agree with you.
> 
> Even VSL has changed a lot lately, they have a very active company rep to help users on this forum. That was not the case in the past, they understand that things have changed, and are smart enough to change as well.
> 
> Communicating with your users, and potential customers is a must these days, being arrogant, and not bothering to communicate with them is a dumb thing to do if you are in business in 2021. I hope EW moves forward, and is not stuck in the 90's business model, and attitude.


Clinging to past victories is always dangerous as it can make you blind for the here and now. Eventually even the largest bastions in history will fall given enough time and not enough care.

I mean, I don't want to start about Kontakt, but let's just say that I hope they have a good roadmap for the future.


----------



## muziksculp

Crossroads said:


> I mean, I don't want to start about Kontakt, but let's just say that I hope they have a good roadmap for the future.


I'm not optimistic about Kontakt's future, they couldn't make it a Scalable GUI in 2021. They also have a new owner of NI, who bought the majority shares, so maybe things will change, but not sure to the better or worse.


----------



## Kevinside

hmm pro tools is in my personal workspace the industry standard...
Avid is everywhere... from TV to the studios...
One major Television company changed to Nuendo and installed Nuage Hardware...
I repeat; one...but no proplem for me, cause Nuendo works just fine with my Avid hardware...

But for my working environment, Pro Tools is the complete solution, which is used from small Project Studios to big Mixing Rooms...A lot of movies are mixed in PT till today...
The great thing is... I can start at home and move the project to a big post pro house...

EW is another story...This big Namm thing was a joke...and i personally don´t trust EW anymore...
I ignore this company, till HoOpus is done...cause every announcement, they make is a big lie in the end...

But i must admit... I don´t like companies, who make big promises with release dates...
In most cases, they fail...


----------



## sIR dORT

EW could learn a thing or two from SA on releasing products on time...


----------



## Kevinside

Thats true; Spitfire announce something and its available on the release day like the last library, which was released on January 21...


----------



## cqd

Are people forgetting spitfire were quite fond of hype until they got themselves completely burned by it?..


----------



## Johnny

It would just be nice in 2021 to see EW formally address pulling the phantom on us though... I booked those hours off work, excited to see the reveal and walkthru. Not product walkthroughs from 2018 and 2019 thrown in replacement the day of... That's not even bad business practice, that's just bad form gents... A simple VI control post after the events to say, "Sorry guys, my car died on the way to NAMM... Or the review video isn't quite ready yet... We just haven't post produced it enough to our usual post proded standards of highly polished review videos." Anything along those lines would probably save a lot of sales that won't be occurring on release day now as a result...


----------



## Evans

Johnny said:


> It would just be nice in 2021 to see EW formally address pulling the phantom on us though... I booked those hours off work, excited to see the reveal and walkthru. Not product walkthroughs from 2018 and 2019 thrown in replacement the day of... That's not even bad business practice, that's just bad form gents... A simple VI control post after the events to say, "Sorry guys, my car died on the way to NAMM... Or the review video isn't quite ready yet... We just haven't post produced it enough to our usual post proded standards of highly polished review videos." Anything along those lines would probably save a lot of sales that won't be occurring on release day now as a result...


My wife works in marketing for a large-ish software company, and I can't imagine them scheduling an hour demo or roadmap presentation for a conference and just saying, "Nah, never mind" or "Whoops, didn't mean to."

I'm not antsy about the release, but it is a goofy move.


----------



## Jose7822

Man, I’m SUPER tempted to just buy BBCO PRO and be done with it. At the end of the day, EW is just playing catch up to modern libraries. Most of OPUS consists of the same sounds I already own anyway.

I’m getting impatient, lol.


----------



## Johnny

Yes, it's a crazy big deal... They are forgetting that a move like this is career suicide in 2021... People only accepted this behavior back then because there were less outlets/platforms to voice our opinions. These days, it would only take one tiktok video to completely boycott and bankrupt the remaining juggernaut studios sadly... But the good news I guess is that change can occur as a result? They should just man up and say sorry... This would be like EA about to announce a new Starwars game at E3, and then not showing up and presenting Fifa Soccer 2018 playthroughs instead... I am surprised more people aren't voicing their thoughts on this... Just my 2 cents...


----------



## Johnny

Jose7822 said:


> Man, I’m SUPER tempted to just buy BBCO PRO and be done with it. At the end of the day, EW is just playing catch up to modern libraries. Most of OPUS consists of the same sounds I already own anyway.
> 
> I’m getting impatient, lol.


Yeah, they are forgetting that most of us already own all of the EW HW series... Nothing really new with 79% to 80% (just guessing) in Opus if they really want to go articulation to articulation on us... Now my only hope is that they don't pull an Apple and force us to upgrade to the new engine because none of our EW products will work, or be supported on the old PLAY engine anymore...


----------



## Jose7822

EW might do what they did with PLAY 6 and charge $50 USD (I think it was around that price) to users who don’t want/need OPUS, but give it away for “free” to those who want the extra content. Just speculation, of course.

Anyway, I’m having second thoughts right now, given that it appears that EW hasn’t learned from their mistakes. There are some really great people working at EW, but the owners don’t seem to care much about communicating with their customers. That’s just a turn off. They don’t even have a forum anymore, which makes this more apparent. This whole situation with them making last minute changes and keeping quiet is not giving me confidence in them, AT ALL.


----------



## Trash Panda

So HO Diamond and Spaces II are limited to a single machine activation on iLok?

I don’t suppose anyone knows a way around that minus switching to USB dongle.


----------



## AndyP

It's a bit like inviting someone to dinner and then not opening the door.
They really should work on their communication.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

gst98 said:


> What do you mean? Artist are only artists when they record in one specific hall? Lol. Go watch Eddy Van Halen playing an acoustic guitar, it still sounds like EVH because every nuance and idiosyncrasy is still there. Same goes for the artistry in engineering.
> 
> Just becuase it is recorded at EW1 does not mean it is not a Shawn Murphy sound. The same way Alan Meyerson records all over the place and it still has 'his sound'.
> I can sort of see what you're trying to get at, but by that same thinking then why would you hire Shawn Murphy if only the room is important? I guess any old bloke at Abbey Road will get you the JW sound because engineering plays no part in the sound of an album?
> 
> FWIW, I think you missed the point of what I was saying, because I wasn't trying to imply that HWO is JW in a box, and I don't belive that at all and I agree with the room being too small (EWSO sounds nicer in terms of room sound imho). The point I was making was that it was recorded by a world class engineer who's work has stood the test of time, and saying the sound is out-dated would imply his other work would sounded too. The statment had little to do with JW, its just JW scores are ones everyone knows that Shawn Murphy engineered on.



The "Shawn Murphy" sound isn't anything special, it's basically the decca tree (with spots). I think we always associate it with John Williams and his writing style, thus, it's the combination we love ... and maybe the gear Shawn Murphy uses. But the older soundtracks weren't neither recorded by him nor recorded at a big scoring stage.

In my opinion any room has it's right to exist, from e.g. the small Silent Stage to the big Abbey Road Studio 1. One has a sonic preference, fine, but I hate it when people say that room X is too small or library X sounds "outdated", whatever that means. You can make any of these rooms sound bigger (more or less), but not the other way round. The smaller rooms needs to be mixed, the bigger ones already have this hall sound we're accustomed to and want to achieve. Two common approaches. Not every soundtrack is recorded at a big scoring stage; and one doesn't need the Air, Abbey Road or MGM ambience to make it sound like a (John Williams) soundtrack. 

I like East West Studio 1 and I think it has a great sound, especially for this "classic" John Williams sound. It's not too small and it doesn't need much reverb, only a longer tail. I love the drier, closer sound in general and prefer it to any of those bigger stages.


----------



## shawnsingh

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> The "Shawn Murphy" sound isn't anything special, it's basically the decca tree (with spots). I think we always associate it with John Williams and his writing style, thus, it's the combination we love ... and maybe the gear Shawn Murphy uses. But the older soundtracks weren't neither recorded by him nor recorded at a big scoring stage.
> 
> In my opinion any room has it's right to exist, from e.g. the small Silent Stage to the big Abbey Road Studio 1. One has a sonic preference, fine, but I hate it when people say that room X is too small or library X sounds "outdated", whatever that means. You can make any of these rooms sound bigger (more or less), but not the other way round. The smaller rooms needs to be mixed, the bigger ones already have this hall sound we're accustomed to and want to achieve. Two common approaches. Not every soundtrack is recorded at a big scoring stage; and one doesn't need the Air, Abbey Road or MGM ambience to make it sound like a (John Williams) soundtrack.
> 
> I like East West Studio 1 and I think it has a great sound, especially for this "classic" John Williams sound. It's not too small and it doesn't need much reverb, only a longer tail. I love the drier, closer sound in general and prefer it to any of those bigger stages.


One unique thing about hollywood orchestra (at least for tree mic that is in gold) is the rich dense early reflections. I don't have that in any other library I own. It creates a very unique sense of 3d dimension, and I personally feel that dimension does well even with reverb added on top to make the space less dry.

I've often wondered if that was part of Shawn Murphy's wizardry for setting up the panels in the room in just the right way, or if recording engineers did that long before and the studio doesn't change the panels very often.

In any case, those early reflections are special. They act like a super charger for individual instruments to sound dynamic and aggressive in a smooth silvery way, and l also strongly suspect that it helps mask possible phasing issues in crossfades (assuming the sound is edited well)


----------



## jcrosby

manuhz said:


> To be honest, I did not expect something like this from a “serious” company lile EWQL. This is a very strange and ridiculous situation. In just 1 day I have lost my interest :(


I'm not kidding when I said they're always way past deadline. They have a history of consistently bieng behind their own release schedule, more often than not by months at a time... Not to mention a history of promising something that never manifested, *Play Pro*.

Check the article from 2009, it's 2021 and Play Pro never came to market... There's no edibility, no scripting, Play's still just a sample player. This was all notoriously polarizing on their own forum, they started censoring user comments asking or critiquing the failure to deliver Play Pro. It's all a bit weird frankly. 

While EW does make great sounding instruments, any company that promises a product they never deliver just strikes me as a company I don't want to hitch my cart to... 






EASTWEST INTRODUCES PLAY PRO (FORMERLY PLAY 2.0)


Adds Editing Capabilities to Companyâ€™s 32-bit/64-bit Sample Engine ANAHEIM, CA, FEBRUARY 5, 2009 â€” EASTWEST, the industry leader in soundware development and distribution, is offering users additional control over the companyâ€™s PLAY-Powered instruments with the introduction of PLAY PRO...




www.mixonline.com


----------



## muziksculp

Tomorrow is Monday, so maybe EW will post a statement on their site, and/or here on this forum to tell us what's the status of Hoopus, and related details.


----------



## shponglefan

In other news, their 60% off sale is still in effect.


----------



## Bluemount Score

jcrosby said:


> I'm not kidding when I said they're always way past deadline. I'm not intending to be a wet blanket but I gave up on EW years ago when I noticed they were constantly behind their own release schedule, more often than not by months at a time... Not to mention a history of promising something that never manifested, *Play Pro*.
> 
> Check the article from 2009. It's 2021 and Play Pro never came to market... There's no edibility, no scripting, Play's still just a sample player. This was all notoriously polarizing on their own forum, they started censoring user comments after which I bailed on EW...
> 
> While EW does make great sounding instruments, any company that promises a product they never deliver just strikes me as a company I don't want to hitch my cart to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EASTWEST INTRODUCES PLAY PRO (FORMERLY PLAY 2.0)
> 
> 
> Adds Editing Capabilities to Companyâ€™s 32-bit/64-bit Sample Engine ANAHEIM, CA, FEBRUARY 5, 2009 â€” EASTWEST, the industry leader in soundware development and distribution, is offering users additional control over the companyâ€™s PLAY-Powered instruments with the introduction of PLAY PRO...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mixonline.com


Hm interesting...

I wanna add that I like your profile picture, very original


----------



## jcrosby

Bluemount Score said:


> Hm interesting...
> 
> I wanna add that I like your profile picture, very original


Thanks! Really appreciate it


----------



## szczaw

shponglefan said:


> In other news, their 60% off sale is still in effect.


It's over at audiodeluxe and down to %25.


----------



## tc9000

I'm not so bothered when software is delayed. Better to release later and working than on time and broken (or missing key features). Release delays usually have a cost one way or another for developers and usually mean someone, somewhere has chosen quality over (near term) profit. Developers: take your time - it'll be ready when its ready. Example: CSW - worth the wait? I think it was... GTA6: coming soon? Probably not


----------



## I like music

shawnsingh said:


> One unique thing about hollywood orchestra (at least for tree mic that is in gold) is the rich dense early reflections. I don't have that in any other library I own. It creates a very unique sense of 3d dimension, and I personally feel that dimension does well even with reverb added on top to make the space less dry.
> 
> I've often wondered if that was part of Shawn Murphy's wizardry for setting up the panels in the room in just the right way, or if recording engineers did that long before and the studio doesn't change the panels very often.
> 
> In any case, those early reflections are special. They act like a super charger for individual instruments to sound dynamic and aggressive in a smooth silvery way, and l also strongly suspect that it helps mask possible phasing issues in crossfades (assuming the sound is edited well)


Yes!!! I always thought, and have said on here multiple times, that this was my most reverb-friendly library. It always bloomed whenever I threw something on. Almost as if there was something beautiful contained in the core recorded hall sound. And whatever you do to it, it is very malleable and just agrees with you.

Most other libraries, not so much!


----------



## cqd

tc9000 said:


> I'm not so bothered when software is delayed. Better to release later and working than on time and broken (or missing key features). Release delays usually have a cost one way or another for developers and usually mean someone, somewhere has chosen quality over (near term) profit. Developers: take your time - it'll be ready when its ready. Example: CSW - worth the wait? I think it was... GTA6: coming soon? Probably not


Pretty much my thoughts exactly..


----------



## Audio Birdi

I'm guessing some of you have seen what happened with Cyberpunk 2077? They released a mess of a game due to it simply not being ready on release day. But still did and their shares tanked as well as getting sued multiple times right now.

I would much prefer a great product released later, rather than a mess of a product released too early, which would end up in the developer scrambling to get it fixed.


----------



## Quantum Leap

Apologies. It’s not arrogance. Doug has a lot of stuff going on besides EW. Same here. We are different than other developers, for better or worse. But Doug did hire a crack software team for the PLAY replacement. I mean the best there is. One thing I can say on our behalf is that we are pioneers and we never develop products for business reasons alone. We only make stuff that we would like to use or is missing from the marketplace completely. If you look closely at our history, you will see that’s true. We were the first to do a full orchestra with a big epic hall sound (EWQLSO). We were the first to do epic choirs and the first to do word building choirs. We were the first to do epic drums. At the time it came out, EWQL pianos was the best sounding multiple piano collection. We were the first to do detailed mutisampled ethnic collections. We developed the best sounding orchestral/film convolution reverb there is. Hollywood Orchestra would have taken over more if it weren’t for the fact that PLAY could not keep up when it first came out and a few other small mistakes we made. We did everything we could to make that the best orchestra library out there. The room actually is great. We had Sean Murphy and Thomas Bergersen involved. Top players, gear Etc.. That stuff matters. It’s not hype. Anyway, I think you will be very pleased with the new orchestra when it’s done. And that’s not that we don’t recognize that there are lots of great orchestral sounds out there these days. But it’s about different flavors, attitudes, sound spaces and playability.


----------



## Jose7822

Nick,

Thanks for coming here to chime in. I for one never doubted the quality of your products. You guys do deliver in that area, without a doubt. Personally, my issue with EW is the lack of communication. It really is a turn off because we don’t know anything about OPUS in terms of updates, price and release window.

I don’t mind that it was delayed as much as you guys not saying anything in regards to it and WHEN we can expect OPUS to be released. As someone mentioned earlier, some of us have to plan our finances, especially in these trying times we live in given the pandemic. I don’t think we are asking for much here given the last minute delays of the release of this library.

I sincerely hope that you guys can improve in this area.


----------



## Caleb Joshua

LOL, I dont know what i want to do anymore. Ive had CC for 3 years now and im thinking about dropping a grand on other content and getting out of it. Who is head of marketing and stuff over there? The namm video was over thought and frankly worthless. You could have gave a copy of opus to any dude on this forum and the improvised youtube video could have hyped it up 1000x more. These titans dont have like, a camera and mic at there computer stations? seeing as how this is a product for dudes at computer stations i dont think the namm videos content was really focused at all...and now, the mystery release window...eww.


----------



## Quantum Leap

Yeah. Point taken. I guess it’s up to me to make something.


----------



## lettucehat

cqd said:


> Are people forgetting spitfire were quite fond of hype until they got themselves completely burned by it?..


I'm not sure if Spitfire has really ever been burned by anything to the extent that their business suffers, but in any event they do demonstrate that if you're going to be a nonstop hype and marketing machine, you need to be slick as hell and never miss a step.


----------



## BasariStudios

Quantum Leap said:


> Apologies. It’s not arrogance. Doug has a lot of stuff going on besides EW. Same here. We are different than other developers, for better or worse. But Doug did hire a crack software team for the PLAY replacement. I mean the best there is. One thing I can say on our behalf is that we are pioneers and we never develop products for business reasons alone. We only make stuff that we would like to use or is missing from the marketplace completely. If you look closely at our history, you will see that’s true. We were the first to do a full orchestra with a big epic hall sound (EWQLSO). We were the first to do epic choirs and the first to do word building choirs. We were the first to do epic drums. At the time it came out, EWQL pianos was the best sounding multiple piano collection. We were the first to do detailed mutisampled ethnic collections. We developed the best sounding orchestral/film convolution reverb there is. Hollywood Orchestra would have taken over more if it weren’t for the fact that PLAY could not keep up when it first came out and a few other small mistakes we made. We did everything we could to make that the best orchestra library out there. The room actually is great. We had Sean Murphy and Thomas Bergersen involved. Top players, gear Etc.. That stuff matters. It’s not hype. Anyway, I think you will be very pleased with the new orchestra when it’s done. And that’s not that we don’t recognize that there are lots of great orchestral sounds out there these days. But it’s about different flavors, attitudes, sound spaces and playability.


That's all cool and ok...but lets see how it works out for us who paid 800$ for Hollywood Strings
only and last week another 400$ for Hollywood Orchestra...let's see what Hoopus price does for us.
Even if not released, why didn't anyone let people know what to do? Why so secretive? I talked to
3 of your support agents. 2 Told me to buy HOD now and upgrade to OPUS while one told me not
don't buy, better wait for Opus directly it will cost you cheaper. I bought HOD all over again even
though i paid almost 800$ years ago just for HSD. Nevermind. Not all of us a millionaires,
stop saying is not business...no one really loves us that much, trust me. You know/knew you have
us by the balls especially some of us who threw over 5-10k at EWQL early on, when Choirs cost
as much as 7-800$...don't forget about us, we are still here ... so is VSL, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools
and hundreds more of them.

Thank You


----------



## BasariStudios

Caleb Joshua said:


> LOL, I dont know what i want to do anymore. Ive had CC for 3 years now and im thinking about dropping a grand on other content and getting out of it. Who is head of marketing and stuff over there? The namm video was over thought and frankly worthless. You could have gave a copy of opus to any dude on this forum and the improvised youtube video could have hyped it up 1000x more. These titans dont have like, a camera and mic at there computer stations? seeing as how this is a product for dudes at computer stations i dont think the namm videos content was really focused at all...and now, the mystery release window...eww.


3 Year of CC is over 700-800$...you better off buying 2 full Libraries somewhere else.


----------



## Jose7822

Quantum Leap said:


> Yeah. Point taken. I guess it’s up to me to make something.


That would be awesome! But please take into consideration what I mentioned in my previous post .


----------



## NoamL

Wlad said:


> I just love it when someone takes two different songs from two different mockup creators, with different reverbs, mix depth, dynamics, programming skills... and tries to make a point by comparing them.


Correct, the point I was making was that despite the differences between these pieces hopefully youc an hear the 2nd example naturally has the spaciousness of a movie scoring stage because it is one.

There's a post floating around VI-C somewhere of the scoring stages used on the top 20 highest grossing movies of 2019. I think it was 19 out of 20 of 'em that used AIR, Abbey Road, SONY, FOX or Warner.



gst98 said:


> FWIW, I think you missed the point of what I was saying, because I wasn't trying to imply that HWO is JW in a box, and I don't belive that at all and I agree with the room being too small (EWSO sounds nicer in terms of room sound imho). The point I was making was that it was recorded by a world class engineer who's work has stood the test of time, and saying the sound is out-dated would imply his other work would sounded too. The statment had little to do with JW, its just JW scores are ones everyone knows that Shawn Murphy engineered on.


that's fair. 

I think "JW sounds like JW" when his music is mixed by other people, or played in live concert as well.


----------



## lettucehat

BasariStudios said:


> 3 Year of CC is over 700-800$...you better off buying 2 full Libraries somewhere else.


I think a lot of us are looking for our appropriate offramp re: CC. Honestly I don't even need to permanently own most of them now, might just get the odd month of CC here and there if I need to open old sessions.

I feel bad for the decent people there just trying to make good products and be as straightforward as they can be given whatever's going on internally. But as far as listing off the truly great libraries to make a point about company culture, the two issues are that one, you have to go back further and further in time to pick those out, and two, for every Hollywood release or RA there is something like The Dark Side or Ghostwriter for which people were once charged $2-300 and justifiably create a lack of trust in what EW thinks is quality content worth charging good money for. I know CC and constant sales have changed the situation but these things left an impression. I am still looking forward to the new content but not excited about the path to owning it.


----------



## Lazer42

I think the reply above, no doubt well intentioned, is a good example of what's really driving a lot of people nuts. It's sortof like what folks were criticizing from the NAMM video: a lot of points about what EW has done in the past or reasons EW products are great, but essentially nothing about the future, where things are at, no acknowledgment of the disappointment or frustration consumers are feeling over the unfulfilled dates (product release and walkthrough video) or mixed messaging over pricing. (The NAMM video did briefly mention what is expected with the new product). 

I think we've seen in all sorts of contexts (from politicians to athletes to celebrities to businesses trying to sell products) that when something goes wrong, people respond very well to an acknowledgment of it and a statement that they're working to fix whatever the issue was in a given case. I know I'm looking forward to Opus a great deal, but I'd feel a lot better about spending money at EW if I just heard some kind of comment like, "We just couldn't get it done by the date we expected, but we're working hard to get it ready as soon as possible. We know you're all really looking forward to learning what to expect from this awesome new product."


----------



## BasariStudios

lettucehat said:


> I think a lot of us are looking for our appropriate offramp re: CC. Honestly I don't even need to permanently own most of them now, might just get the odd month of CC here and there if I need to open old sessions.
> 
> I feel bad for the decent people there just trying to make good products and be as straightforward as they can be given whatever's going on internally. But as far as listing off the truly great libraries to make a point about company culture, the two issues are that one, you have to go back further and further in time to pick those out, and two, for every Hollywood release or RA there is something like The Dark Side or Ghostwriter for which people were once charged $2-300 and justifiably create a lack of trust in what EW thinks is quality content worth charging good money for. I know CC and constant sales have changed the situation but these things left an impression. I am still looking forward to the new content but not excited about the path to owning it.


You are right...there was a funny thing with FX too. I paid 99$ for the
FX only the week after for it to be free in the new Play Version.
Bro...do you realize...HollywoodBrass Gold upgrade to Diamond is
184$ while buying Diamond straight up is 159$. I paid around 300$
i think for Gold a while ago. Who comes up with this $#|T?


----------



## Quantum Leap

What you missed is the smaller stage has advantages and flexibility over the bigger ones. And vice versa. Lack of trust? Are you serious? I give up.


----------



## BasariStudios

Lazer42 said:


> a lot of points about what EW has done in the past or reasons EW products are great, but essentially nothing about the future,


Exactly...yeah we suck now anyways but we did really great in the past.
Who cares what you pioneered? Show me what you are doing now.
We are not paying now for what you did a decade and a half ago, i already
paid for that, over 5k...let's see what i paid for now or in the future.


----------



## peladio

I'm a big fan of EWQL libraries and use them daily in my work..I am also excited for Opus..however I can see how announcing the release few months ago and sharing almost nothing new on the planned release date antagonizes some people..

Sharing some upgrade and pricing info would probably calm people down for starters as there's really no reason to be so secretive..


----------



## Toecutter

muziksculp said:


> Awesome post. Totally agree with you.
> 
> Even VSL has changed a lot lately, they have a very active company rep to help users on this forum. That was not the case in the past, they understand that things have changed, and are smart enough to change as well.
> 
> Communicating with your users, and potential customers is a must these days, being arrogant, and not bothering to communicate with them is a dumb thing to do if you are in business in 2021. I hope EW moves forward, and is not stuck in the 90's business model, and attitude.


VSL really upped their online presence in 2019/20!! The youtube channel is always busy and they have at least 3 reps here addressing concerns, questions, issues, you name it. I bought MIR during the MIRaculous sale mostly because of their top notch support. EW on the other hand...


----------



## NoamL

Quantum Leap said:


> What you missed is the smaller stage has advantages and flexibility over the bigger ones. And vice versa.


It does, Nick!

I use HWS Diamond together with Spaces II and get nice results. I also use Spaces II on Cinematic Studio Series all the time... the "Hollywood" Stage IR is really nice 

I just haven't got the same good results with HWB, albeit the Gold edition.


----------



## TRON 1.0

Quantum Leap said:


> Anyway, I think you will be very pleased with the new orchestra when it’s done. And that’s not that we don’t recognize that there are lots of great orchestral sounds out there these days. But it’s about different flavors, attitudes, sound spaces and playability.


Hey Nick,

Idk maybe you have already been asked about this but do you have in your plans to revisit EWQLSO, like to upgrade controls to improve playability, add some true legatos etc.? The samples in this library really shine even after almost two decades. I guess I'm not the only one who would like this library to get a more user friendly interface and playability.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

peladio said:


> Sharing some upgrade and pricing info would probably calm people down for starters as there's really no reason to be so secretive..


Exactly. Obviously, the pricing has already been figured out and decided. I mean, up until just a couple of days ago, they were planning on having it available for sale, *right now*.


----------



## Johnny

jcrosby said:


> I'm not kidding when I said they're always way past deadline. They have a history of consistently bieng behind their own release schedule, more often than not by months at a time... Not to mention a history of promising something that never manifested, *Play Pro*.
> 
> Check the article from 2009, it's 2021 and Play Pro never came to market... There's no edibility, no scripting, Play's still just a sample player. This was all notoriously polarizing on their own forum, they started censoring user comments asking or critiquing the failure to deliver Play Pro. It's all a bit weird frankly.
> 
> While EW does make great sounding instruments, any company that promises a product they never deliver just strikes me as a company I don't want to hitch my cart to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EASTWEST INTRODUCES PLAY PRO (FORMERLY PLAY 2.0)
> 
> 
> Adds Editing Capabilities to Companyâ€™s 32-bit/64-bit Sample Engine ANAHEIM, CA, FEBRUARY 5, 2009 â€” EASTWEST, the industry leader in soundware development and distribution, is offering users additional control over the companyâ€™s PLAY-Powered instruments with the introduction of PLAY PRO...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mixonline.com


There was once a banner released: Play Pro, EW HW Cello and Forbidden Planet- all to surface Q2 or Q4 of whatever year that it didn't come out... I have this banner somewhere screen shot and saved on my hard drive from ciraaaaaa: 2009? Or 2011? Only EW Cello apparently survived the trigger happy EW early bird tweet.


----------



## Johnny

Quantum Leap said:


> Yeah. Point taken. I guess it’s up to me to make somethingI thini





Quantum Leap said:


> Yeah. Point taken. I guess it’s up to me to make something.


The fact that you were following the thread already redeems most all of our concerns, so I personally thank you Nick! And thank you for responding and hearing us out. I personally own and use all of your products professionally, (especially from of the Quantum Leap era) it's without a question you've made leaps in every avenue of our industry. That being said, you yourself could easily be leveraging your personal influencing ability in Opus walkthroughs and what not, I'm equally feeling the NAMM disappointment of the forums... Composers follow yourself and Thomas among others, we would love to see either of you guys become part of the community once again, and no longer remain in the shadows of some illusive EW juggernaut like the times that once were. Thank you for chiming in : ) Looking forward to more Opus news : ) Best, Johnny


----------



## BasariStudios

peladio said:


> Sharing some upgrade and pricing info would probably calm people down for starters as there's really no reason to be so secretive..


Of course there is reasons to be secretive....like robbing us again one more time now.
But this is kind of a good response...


----------



## Jose7822

This right here ^ is the reason why we should‘ve be given an explanation in regards to the delay. People are spending money on either the subscription service or the sale on HO Diamond edition based on the suggestions given by EW marketing and product specialists.

Of course, no one is being forced to buy anything. But this is the kind of trust customers give a company, thus we also deserve some level of trustworthiness in return. Again, I don’t think we’re asking much here. If you run a company, you deal with customers. It’s not very hard to communicate with them these days.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Quantum Leap said:


> We developed the best sounding orchestral/film convolution reverb there is.


True, but it would nice if EW could revamp the whole pricing scheme. I now need Spaces II on both master/slave, but there's no way I'm paying full price for another one. What's worse, is the second license option is actually $40 MORE that buying a whole new license. I've been using EWQL stuff since the early 00's, and always will, but this type of thing is goofy. Anyways, I'll most likely buy Cinematic Spaces, which comes with two licenses.


----------



## Wlad

BasariStudios said:


> Of course there is reasons to be secretive....like robbing us again one more time now.


One may say "robbing" is a little bit harsh word choice, but I must somehow agree with you on this. They urged users to buy/upgrade to Diamond edition and CC Plus in order to get the best deals on HOOPUS, which they probably won't get, and many pulled the trigger on the library/subscription because they were hoping for that fall release at first, and then January 21 NAMM release. Those people could easily spend their money on something else during the Black Friday or Christmas sales. Most are still confused... "Should I buy/upgrade now, should I wait?".

EW is a huge company and their egos are heavy ones, but simple...
"Hey guys, we are sorry for the delay, we fu*ked up and we must delay the product. The probable release date will be then and then, and these are the prices, so you can plan your investments".

But no, they are pulling marketing tricks on us, like they are selling detergents. Unfortunately for them, nowadays that does not work in the sample library world as competition is huge, and people are fed up with lies and treachery.


----------



## BasariStudios

Jeremy Spencer said:


> True, but it would nice if EW could revamp the whole pricing scheme. I now need Spaces II on both master/slave, but there's no way I'm paying full price for another one. What's worse, is the second license option is actually $40 MORE that buying a whole new license. I've been using EWQL stuff since the early 00's, and always will, but this type of thing is goofy. Anyways, I'll most likely buy Cinematic Spaces, which comes with two licenses.


Bought Cinematic Spaces, dumped Spaces 1 in the Garbage and never looked back.
I paid over 200$ for Spaces 1, now they want another 184$ for Upgrade or 159$
for Full Version? Come again? What did i just say?


----------



## Toecutter

Jose7822 said:


> This right here ^ is the reason why we should‘ve be given an explanation in regards to the delay. People are spending money on either the subscription service or the sale on HO Diamond edition based on the suggestions given by EW marketing and product specialists.
> 
> Of course, no one is being forced to buy anything. But this is the kind of trust customers give a company, thus we also deserve some level of trustworthiness in return. Again, I don’t think we’re asking much here. If you run a company, you deal with customers. It’s not very hard to communicate with them these days.


Agreed, we are only asking for transparency. I feel we are walking on eggshells when dealing with big developers like EastWest. It IS a business. A lot of people bought Hollywood Orchestra based on the suggestions made by their support and social media. Months later, not a single word about pricing or a release date, only delays and the NAMM fiasco. It's 2021, it doesn't take much until people get tired and move on.

8Dio, VSL, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Cinesamples, the old dogs are all keeping up with times and expanding beyond past glories.


----------



## BasariStudios

Wlad said:


> One may say "robbing" is a little bit harsh word choice, but I must somehow agree with you on this.


Nope, they are flatly robbing people. If you followed their FB page they have been
advertising HOOPUS on CC since last year...urging people to Subscribe to CC so
they can get HOOPUS. People DID subscribe months ago and still no HOOPUS!
I bought HOD 6 days ago...on the premises of what 1 of their support members
told me while other 2 told me NAH, WAIT FOR HOOPUS.

And these whole Saga deserves its own video on my YT Channel
very soon...once Electricity has been restored.


----------



## BasariStudios

Toecutter said:


> 8Dio, VSL, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Cinesamples, the old dogs are all keeping up with times and expanding beyond past glories.


Well they got my 5k these last 3 months, not EW. Yes EW does not care about it
and i am nobody to them...but little by little there is many like me...


----------



## Quantum Leap

I don’t have anything to do with pricing or any of that stuff. From my perspective, EW started the whole cheap pricing thing years ago and I’ve never been a fan. I think all the software is too cheap. - People get so angry. The truth is I would rather do other stuff than make videos. I’m not really very good at it. Opus is going to be good, but you can buy something else if you want. In the end, it’s more about your abilities at this point. As far as what have you done lately? I don’t know, Hollywood Choirs is my favorite choir library and won VI of the year. Hollywood Pop Brass is pretty cool. Stay healthy. -Nick


----------



## jneebz

"Coming Fall 2020!"
"No wait!...Coming January 21st!"
"No wait!...What we mean is we'll do a NAMM REVEAL January 21st and a Walk-Through January 22nd!"
"PSYCHE!, no Walk-Through. Just watch the 10 minute video again from the previous day!"
"We're STILL ADDING FEATURES" as of January 21???? I mean, seriously, WTF?

Just not worth it. This whole thing has turned into a total clusterf--k.


----------



## Patrick Aylett

I welcome any delay if it means it will be better on release. The sound quality of EW products has always been to my ears of exceptional quality.

I really don't understand the reaction of some members of this forum (a minority) who are constantly whining like spoilt 8 year olds. Stuff happens, EW won't go out of business, life isn't fair - no new toy today.


----------



## Jose7822

BasariStudios said:


> Bought Cinematic Spaces, dumped Spaces 1 in the Garbage and never looked back.
> I paid over 200$ for Spaces 1, now they want another 184$ for Upgrade or 159$
> for Full Version? Come again? What did i just say?



Cinematic Rooms is probably the best reverb plug-in for orchestral music currently. At least in my opinion (and I have Spaces II, as well as others). You should be set there 👍.


----------



## Jose7822

Patrick Aylett said:


> I welcome any delay if it means it will be better on release. The sound quality of EW products has always been to my ears of exceptional quality.
> 
> I really don't understand the reaction of some members of this forum (a minority) who are constantly whining like spoilt 8 year olds. Stuff happens, EW won't go out of business, life isn't fair - no new toy today.



I don’t think anyone is necessarily complaining about the fact that OPUS got delayed. On the contrary, everyone would gladly wait for a more polished product. Of course things happen. We all understand that.

The problem is how the delays have been handled (with lack of transparency to their customers). We don’t live in normal times anymore. A lot of people in our line of business are hurting economically due to the pandemic, so it’s only reasonable that they are wanting to have a better idea of how (and where) they are going to spend their money. It really boggles the mind to hear you say that you don’t understand people’s reaction in this thread. Really??


----------



## mcalis

@Quantum Leap question: in Hollywood Brass on some shorts the release samples are trimmed, as far as I know this was done to avoid build-up of releases. I was wondering if HOOPUS gives more control over releases where I can make a conscious decision to include them or not, because sometimes I want them and currently in HWB I don't have that option.


----------



## borisb2

ehhm ... honestly, the anger against EW here goes a bit too far for my liking. I'm a bit surprised. I can understand disappointment when the library is not ready - people need new libraries. But to call it "being robbed" because one signed up for CC sounds pretty weird. What EW does is modern advertising, not more, not less. Legit. I dont have to like that, I dont have to care. I'm only interested in their products. Its business. People these days fall too easily for rumors, hyped trends and recommendations etc. .. I'm interested in Opus, I have HWS Diamond and HWB Diamond but not the whole HOD .. do I upgrade now? F-word no. I wait and see how it sounds - I'm sure there will be a way to upgrade at a reasonable price, if not then so be it. We have enough options..
Getting advertisment and recommendations all the time. iOS upgrade here, Skype there (every 2 weeks), 8dio and Spitfire emails 3 times a week. So? I dont care - usually I say no to skype upgrade, delete the iOS upgrade and wait for the next in 2 months etc.. When I need something THEN I start looking. Same with Opus, same with CSW, same with BSS etc. etc. .. dont need it urgently. Happy to wait and see. We have so many options.

So if you signed up for CC or bought HOD .. awesome. Write something with it


----------



## Patrick Aylett

Jose7822 said:


> It really boggles the mind to hear you say that you don’t understand people’s reaction in this thread. Really??


I absolutely agree 150% that as soon as 21st January arrived EW should have sent out an email explaining the delay. Like you say, a lot of people are planning their budget around it. They should know they have a responsibility to do that - even just out of politeness, if nothing else.

It's the rudeness and sarcasm that bother me. It lowers the level of debate, achieves nothing, and just gives the forum a reputation as being full of dicks.


----------



## Jose7822

Patrick Aylett said:


> I absolutely agree 150% that as soon as 21st January arrived EW should have sent out an email explaining the delay. Like you say, a lot of people are planning their budget around it. They should know they have a responsibility to do that - even just out of politeness, if nothing else.
> 
> It's the rudeness and sarcasm that bother me. It lowers the level of debate, achieves nothing, and just gives the forum a reputation as being full of dicks.


Ah, I see what you mean. I do agree with that! We should address people politely, for sure!! I try my best to express myself without being rude to strangers online, even if we disagree. Being a dick doesn’t accomplish anything anyway. My bad for the misunderstanding ^_^.


----------



## AndyP

I understand Nick's point of view, but also that of potential customers.
The delays themselves are not the main point of criticism, but the communication. I would wish that there is at least a timely info that it, for whatever reason, can not yet be released. 

I don't expect this information in forums, even if that's nice, but on the homepage.
However, I can live with the delay and if the product is better, more stable, then I prefer that than an unstable product that causes even more frustration.

I find it important that the tone remains appropriate. We are, after all, halfway grown-up people.


----------



## Fa

Patrick Aylett said:


> I absolutely agree 150% that as soon as 21st January arrived EW should have sent out an email explaining the delay. Like you say, a lot of people are planning their budget around it. They should know they have a responsibility to do that - even just out of politeness, if nothing else.
> 
> It's the rudeness and sarcasm that bother me. It lowers the level of debate, achieves nothing, and just gives the forum a reputation as being full of dicks.


I disagree, sorry. Obviously being rude is never a good option for communicating, but that's individual.
I read sarcastic and disappointed comments more than "rude" comments here.

In general forum is to express opinions and reactions: 
- people gets excited by the hype and express emotional excitement and appreciation, and you are happy.

- so let's them express equally sarcastic and emotional reactions when they are disappointed and it hurts.

That's not being "dicks" it's being humans, and being honest, and being citizens of the global virtual village the marketers have created with THEIR decisions and communication style.

If they were honest, moderate and polite with customers, then sarcasm and emotional reactions would be off and inappropriate. But they played the game, now you can't complain about the result.


----------



## Crossroads

Quantum Leap said:


> Apologies. It’s not arrogance. Doug has a lot of stuff going on besides EW. Same here. We are different than other developers, for better or worse. But Doug did hire a crack software team for the PLAY replacement. I mean the best there is. One thing I can say on our behalf is that we are pioneers and we never develop products for business reasons alone. We only make stuff that we would like to use or is missing from the marketplace completely. If you look closely at our history, you will see that’s true. We were the first to do a full orchestra with a big epic hall sound (EWQLSO). We were the first to do epic choirs and the first to do word building choirs. We were the first to do epic drums. At the time it came out, EWQL pianos was the best sounding multiple piano collection. We were the first to do detailed mutisampled ethnic collections. We developed the best sounding orchestral/film convolution reverb there is. Hollywood Orchestra would have taken over more if it weren’t for the fact that PLAY could not keep up when it first came out and a few other small mistakes we made. We did everything we could to make that the best orchestra library out there. The room actually is great. We had Sean Murphy and Thomas Bergersen involved. Top players, gear Etc.. That stuff matters. It’s not hype. Anyway, I think you will be very pleased with the new orchestra when it’s done. And that’s not that we don’t recognize that there are lots of great orchestral sounds out there these days. But it’s about different flavors, attitudes, sound spaces and playability.


Nick, I know you are coming from a good place and I'm sure the product, when it's out, is going to be really good. But this is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about. Instead of communicating, this comes across as ''hey but did you know we did all this other stuff before...''

It comes across as marketing speak, but kinda dishonest marketing speak here. Like, instead of writing what you honestly want to say, you're reading the standard marketing blurb. I'm not saying that's your intention, but this is exactly the sort of disconnect from reality that I was talking about. I think it would be a very wise thing to rethink this kind of communication. Product development as a whole is more involved these days than it used to be, and competition is fierce. The way you approach people can really make a huge difference, not just for this product, but for the believability of EW as a whole. Although I of course do not know your reach of involvement with EW as a whole.

I truly believe you are a genuinely nice guy and have great passion for what you do, and that you want to create a truly great product. And, making great products is hard, especially right now. So why not just... embrace that persona? It would really make people feel like they're being taken a little bit more serious. Your reaction, and I truly do not mean to offend, reads like a marketing-caricature. Almost parodying marketing stereotypes.

I say this because the Hollywood Orchestra is my favorite orchestra in all of sampling, and I truly want HOOPUS to be fantastic. I'm afraid though that the details surrounding it, especially the marketing and the communication, will hurt the product itself, or at least the way people view it. The heat of the debate here, whilst sometimes a little too heated, shows that people really do care. Communication is so important these days.

That said, keep it nice and civil people. No need for swearing, or name-calling. Talk to people like you would in real life. It's all too easy to lose a touch of compassion behind a virtual wall. Everyone on these forums is a person in real life.


----------



## Markrs

I think the main issues discussed here are not of Nick's doing (if I read Nick's comments correctly about not being involved in Comms and pricing), the quality of the work is often excellent. 

The delay is not really the issue for me, these things happen, that is life especially during a pandemic. The primary issue is communication, or lack of it. No communication about the delay or how long it will be and no communication about pricing. 

Most companies will give revised release dates after a delay. This is a reasonable thing to do. If the date is not yet quantifiable then this too should be communicated. Talking to customers is incredibly important to most businesses, as in installs trust and brand loyalty.

Not everyone gives you the pricing before release, but they often give you an indication of upgrade price or grace period when the product is an upgrade and this avoids buying something now and then pay for an upgrade, versus just paying for the full upgrade library. 

I think the upgrade price strategy is a major issue separate to Opus (though obvious very relevant) that needs to be sorted. Upgrade should discount when the libraries are discounted. This is the way most companies work, rather than the upgrades being more expensive than new.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

jcrosby said:


> I'm not kidding when I said they're always way past deadline. They have a history of consistently bieng behind their own release schedule, more often than not by months at a time... Not to mention a history of promising something that never manifested, *Play Pro*.
> 
> Check the article from 2009, it's 2021 and Play Pro never came to market... There's no edibility, no scripting, Play's still just a sample player. This was all notoriously polarizing on their own forum, they started censoring user comments asking or critiquing the failure to deliver Play Pro. It's all a bit weird frankly.
> 
> While EW does make great sounding instruments, any company that promises a product they never deliver just strikes me as a company I don't want to hitch my cart to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EASTWEST INTRODUCES PLAY PRO (FORMERLY PLAY 2.0)
> 
> 
> Adds Editing Capabilities to Companyâ€™s 32-bit/64-bit Sample Engine ANAHEIM, CA, FEBRUARY 5, 2009 â€” EASTWEST, the industry leader in soundware development and distribution, is offering users additional control over the companyâ€™s PLAY-Powered instruments with the introduction of PLAY PRO...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mixonline.com








EASTWEST INTRODUCES PLAY 2.0 AT NAMM 2009


Adds Editing Capabilities to Companyâ€™s 32-bit/64-bit Sample Engine ANAHEIM, CA, JANUARY 15, 2009 â€” EASTWEST, the industry leader in soundware development and distribution, is offering users additional control over the companyâ€™s PLAY-Powered instruments with the introduction of PLAY 2.0...



www.mixonline.com





Well they did release this:






EASTWEST INTRODUCES THE EASTWEST/QUANTUM LEAP COMPLETE COMPOSERS COLLECTION PLAY EDITION


Companyâ€™s Popular Virtual Instruments in One Cost-Effective Package FRANKFURT, GERMANY, MARCH 31, 2009 â€” Music, TV, film and game composers will now have access to some of EASTWESTâ€™s high-quality PLAY-powered virtual instruments all in one package with the Complete Composers Collection...



www.mixonline.com





Because that was where my journey wth them began :D


----------



## Jose7822

Quantum Leap said:


> People get so angry. The truth is I would rather do other stuff than make videos. I’m not really very good at it.



BTW, Nick, if you don’t have time to make videos you could always contact someone like Daniel James or Alex Pfeffer who already have a good following of composers on Twitch and YouTube. Lots of companies send them products for review. What better test of how easy OPUS is to use than that?


----------



## mauriziodececco

Wlad said:


> EW is a huge company and their egos are heavy ones, but simple...
> "Hey guys, we are sorry for the delay, we fu*ked up and we must delay the product. The probable release date will be then and then, and these are the prices, so you can plan your investments".
> 
> But no, they are pulling marketing tricks on us, like they are selling detergents. Unfortunately for them, nowadays that does not work in the sample library world as competition is huge, and people are fed up with lies and treachery.



Well, do you many company (still existing) that give you full visibility on their internal development process ? I mean, that would be nice, but very dangerous in a competitive market; can't you imagine how the others player in the market could use this kind of information ?

I agree that it would be nice to have full visibility on what is going on inside a company, but it is not how things work, usually.

Software development is hard, and products are always late; check out Hofstader's law; do not trust, ever, a release date announced for a software product; that the only and one rule.

Maurizio
​


----------



## Fa

Quantum Leap said:


> Apologies. It’s not arrogance. Doug has a lot of stuff going on besides EW. Same here. We are different than other developers, for better or worse. But Doug did hire a crack software team for the PLAY replacement. I mean the best there is. One thing I can say on our behalf is that we are pioneers and we never develop products for business reasons alone. We only make stuff that we would like to use or is missing from the marketplace completely. If you look closely at our history, you will see that’s true. We were the first to do a full orchestra with a big epic hall sound (EWQLSO). We were the first to do epic choirs and the first to do word building choirs. We were the first to do epic drums. At the time it came out, EWQL pianos was the best sounding multiple piano collection. We were the first to do detailed mutisampled ethnic collections. We developed the best sounding orchestral/film convolution reverb there is. Hollywood Orchestra would have taken over more if it weren’t for the fact that PLAY could not keep up when it first came out and a few other small mistakes we made. We did everything we could to make that the best orchestra library out there. The room actually is great. We had Sean Murphy and Thomas Bergersen involved. Top players, gear Etc.. That stuff matters. It’s not hype. Anyway, I think you will be very pleased with the new orchestra when it’s done. And that’s not that we don’t recognize that there are lots of great orchestral sounds out there these days. But it’s about different flavors, attitudes, sound spaces and playability.


Really appreciated, and fair comments. I understand and agree with everything you say about the legacy of QL EW and that's the reason why your hard work should deserve a better support from commercial/marketing/communication point of view. 

It's very hard to consider fair what's going on with announcement and sales, totally disregarding the quality of the product and the requested time for a proper development, that we know it's not trivial and predictable at all.


----------



## Evans

Jose7822 said:


> I don’t think anyone is necessarily complaining about the fact that OPUS got delayed. On the contrary, everyone would gladly wait for a more polished product. Of course things happen. We all understand that.


Let's be fair to Nick: some people _*are *_being mean about the delay in and of itself.

I agree about the grossness on the Cloud sub push combined with the subsequent no-communication delay, and people have the right to be angry about that. I'm a *BIG *fan of EWHO, but it's a sour move and a risk (on both the company and user side) inherent in subscription offers.

Imagine if Netflix unexpectedly added no new content in February, after previously saying they'd bring 100 new 8k resolution shows and movies starting the first of February. And had been making a push for people to subscribe to their 8k subscription service? And then never said anything about it after they didn't add anything? Half the Internet would be in an uproar.

Now, put that in a space like we have here, in which it potentially impacts people's jobs. You (the universal "you," not you, Jose!) can argue all you want that people should purchase based on what exists today, but that simply doesn't happen in the real world. EastWest was quite specifically urging signups _because_ HOOPUS was on its way. It was literally their strategy.

But, yeah, some people *are *just fussing about the delay itself, not how the delay is being managed.

Whether the reactions by users are "right" or "professional" or not, companies should expect this behavior. Marketing (or otherwise faces of the company) rile people up and get them in a positive, energetic fervor about their products, and should not be surprised when the pendulum swings the other way.

I'm checking out of this thread until we get more videos or audio demos.


----------



## Jose7822

Evans said:


> Let's be fair to Nick: some people _*are *_being mean about the delay in and of itself. I completely agree about the grossness on the Cloud sub push and a subsequent no-communication delay, and people have the right to be angry about that. But some people are just fussing about the delay itself.
> 
> With that said, companies should expect this behavior. Marketing (or otherwise faces of the company) rile people up and get them in a positive, energetic fervor about their products, and should not be surprised when the pendulum swings the other way.



EW, an others, could easily mitigate this issue (of product release delays) by simply announcing it when it’s ready. I mean, what a concept! Heavyocity is a GREAT example of that. You only hear from them when they actually have something ready. Customers are happy because they get the product almost immediately, and Heavyocity looks good because there are no delays. Win, win!

Nobody had any idea that EW was working on OPUS, so why even mention it if it’s not even a finished product? You see, this is where the frustration comes. Because they keep doing this and underestimating how long it takes them to actually finish it. So, of course, people will get mad. It’s completely rational. That said, I still believe that if you level with your customers that they’ll most likely understand and are more willing to let things fly. These days, with all the technologies currently in place, there really are no excuses no to do so. Zero excuses!


----------



## Braveheart

Let’s wait for the final result. If it’s really good, all these discussions will be forgotten after release.


----------



## sIR dORT

borisb2 said:


> ehhm ... honestly, the anger against EW here goes a bit too far for my liking. I'm a bit surprised. I can understand disappointment when the library is not ready - people need new libraries. But to call it "being robbed" because one signed up for CC sounds pretty weird. What EW does is modern advertising, not more, not less. Legit. I dont have to like that, I dont have to care. I'm only interested in their products. Its business. People these days fall too easily for rumors, hyped trends and recommendations etc. .. I'm interested in Opus, I have HWS Diamond and HWB Diamond but not the whole HOD .. do I upgrade now? F-word no. I wait and see how it sounds - I'm sure there will be a way to upgrade at a reasonable price, if not then so be it. We have enough options..
> Getting advertisment and recommendations all the time. iOS upgrade here, Skype there (every 2 weeks), 8dio and Spitfire emails 3 times a week. So? I dont care - usually I say no to skype upgrade, delete the iOS upgrade and wait for the next in 2 months etc.. When I need something THEN I start looking. Same with Opus, same with CSW, same with BSS etc. etc. .. dont need it urgently. Happy to wait and see. We have so many options.
> 
> So if you signed up for CC or bought HOD .. awesome. Write something with it


1000% agree


----------



## bvaughn0402

borisb2 said:


> ehhm ... honestly, the anger against EW here goes a bit too far for my liking. I'm a bit surprised. I can understand disappointment when the library is not ready - people need new libraries. But to call it "being robbed" because one signed up for CC sounds pretty weird. What EW does is modern advertising, not more, not less. Legit. I dont have to like that, I dont have to care. I'm only interested in their products. Its business. People these days fall too easily for rumors, hyped trends and recommendations etc. .. I'm interested in Opus, I have HWS Diamond and HWB Diamond but not the whole HOD .. do I upgrade now? F-word no. I wait and see how it sounds - I'm sure there will be a way to upgrade at a reasonable price, if not then so be it. We have enough options..
> Getting advertisment and recommendations all the time. iOS upgrade here, Skype there (every 2 weeks), 8dio and Spitfire emails 3 times a week. So? I dont care - usually I say no to skype upgrade, delete the iOS upgrade and wait for the next in 2 months etc.. When I need something THEN I start looking. Same with Opus, same with CSW, same with BSS etc. etc. .. dont need it urgently. Happy to wait and see. We have so many options.
> 
> So if you signed up for CC or bought HOD .. awesome. Write something with it


It is interesting ... this is a "tough" forum, especially for vendors.

If you took out Opus and EastWest, and inserted Spitfire, you would think this is just another Spitfire thread with people bashing them. :D 

Over on the MSS thread, there is some general uneasy feelings about delays ... not as strong as here.

Maybe CSW did the right approach ... quit discussing it SO much that people wonder if it will ever happen ... then BAM. MSS is close to that, but they probably could have delayed any talk on it for 2 months.

I think with this crowd, it is best to wait until actual launch to release info. Or maybe just don't mention release dates. :D.


----------



## Eptesicus

bvaughn0402 said:


> It is interesting ... this is a "tough" forum, especially for vendors.
> 
> If you took out Opus and EastWest, and inserted Spitfire, you would think this is just another Spitfire thread with people bashing them. :D
> 
> Over on the MSS thread, there is some general uneasy feelings about delays ... not as strong as here.
> 
> Maybe CSW did the right approach ... quit discussing it SO much that people wonder if it will ever happen ... then BAM. MSS is close to that, but they probably could have delayed any talk on it for 2 months.
> 
> I think with this crowd, it is best to wait until actual launch to release info. Or maybe just don't mention release dates. :D.



Cinematic Studio is a bit of a shining light in the sample world in my opinion.

No excessive advertising/promotions/hype.
No releasing a new product every 5 minutes.
Consistent and reasonable pricing ($399 a section, or $279 if you are already a customer or if you are buying on black Friday week. That's it). No sales every 2 minutes. No constantly devaluing products or making you wish you waited another month. Just a reasonable price from the start and a sales structure that rewards loyalty, is predictable and not too extreme.
Very well done products, delivering high quality, expressive and easy to use instruments.
Very polite and quick to respond customer support.

Whilst, obviously all these companies are money making endevours, Cinematic Studio seems to go about it in one of the most honest and customer/consumer friendly way. There just doesnt seem to be any obvious bulll***/obvious money grabbing antics with them unlike that which you get with some other developers.


----------



## MauroPantin

I do not feel EW is being dishonest or intentionally misleading, I'm sure they're doing their best. I just feel communication could be better. 

If Jan 21 was the big day and there was some delay or something unexpected happened, surely a walkthrough posted on YT or something of that nature is at least possible while they iron out the last few kinks, right? I mean, if that's not the case and it's not functional up to the point of allowing for a pre-recorded overview then this is probably not releasing anytime soon.


----------



## Markrs

Jose7822 said:


> BTW, Nick, if you don’t have time to make videos you could always contact someone like Daniel James or Alex Pfeffer who already have a good following of composers on Twitch and YouTube. Lots of companies send them products for review. What better test of how easy OPUS is to use than that?


Absolutely or Guy Michelmore who has already done a video and free course on composer cloud so would be ideal to do a video demo of it.


----------



## jneebz

Jose7822 said:


> The problem is how the delays have been handled (with lack of transparency to their customers).


This. 1000%


----------



## jneebz

Jose7822 said:


> EW, an others, could easily mitigate this issue (of product release delays) by simply announcing it when it’s ready. I mean, what a concept! Heavyocity is a GREAT example of that. You only hear from them when they actually have something ready. Customers are happy because they get the product almost immediately, and Heavyocity looks good because there are no delays. Win, win!


And this. Exactly.


----------



## Wlad

mauriziodececco said:


> Well, do you many company (still existing) that give you full visibility on their internal development process ? I mean, that would be nice, but very dangerous in a competitive market; can't you imagine how the others player in the market could use this kind of information ?
> 
> I agree that it would be nice to have full visibility on what is going on inside a company, but it is not how things work, usually.
> 
> Software development is hard, and products are always late; check out Hofstader's law; do not trust, ever, a release date announced for a software product; that the only and one rule.
> 
> Maurizio
> ​


We don't need full visibility on their internal development. But there are some companies that use internal development as a way of marketing a product. Like for example Orchestral Tools series on Junkie XL Brass. They released a series of videos on how JXL Brass was recorded and the idea behind it. And they are not some flashy, high production videos, just regular camera shots of a recording process and some interviews. A message from time to time saying "Hey guys, just to let you know we are still working hard on the product, we are close or far to finish". I really don't know how that information could be of any danger to them from other players on the market?

You say that not respecting release dates a company set should be a common thing in the industry and that we have to get used to it? I'm sorry but I'm not up for it. Software development is hard, but then you finish your product and only then start marketing it, like the majority of companies in this industry actually do. Spitfire will announce a library a week to a month from the release date, and you will always see that library released. VSL for example does not even announce their libraries, they just spawn out of thin air.

OPUS is 5 years in the making? And they use that information as a high point in their marketing campaign? C'mon man, I could learn to fly a Space Shuttle in 5 years by myself. This is just poor form on EW's side, with all due respect to those among them who are not to blame for this fiasco.


----------



## Wlad

Evans said:


> Imagine if Netflix unexpectedly added no new content in February, after previously saying they'd bring 100 new 8k resolution shows and movies starting the first of February. And had been making a push for people to subscribe to their 8k subscription service? And then never said anything about it after they didn't add anything? Half the Internet would be in an uproar.


This right here is a great analogy.


----------



## RogiervG

That big banner on their website "EastWest's 60% off sale ends today" is still up.. same for the prices.
Seems like they don't seem to know how much hours there are in a full day (pssst: 24 hours)


----------



## BasariStudios

You know where the problem is? Look at AudioBro or CinematicStudios or any
Company on the Market, almost all of them:
,, We are soon going to release the BLA BLA BLA Product, but, if you own
THIS Product you price will be THAT and if you own THAT product your price
will be THIS and you if you do not own ANY product your price will be THA
one over there''. Is that so hard? THIS is the problem with so many different
messages from their own support. The Delay is not a problem at all, it can
take another 3 months if needed.

Why do we wanna know the prices??? Because we need to plan our Finances
and see if we can get a half @$$ working Instrument to its potential.

EW is going the other way:
,,We can't say anything about the price yet because we are learning, researching
and listening to how we can milk you some more'. Please don't say no.

NO, the Delay is not a problem, it always happens, for God's sake i own a 6 employees
Company and my customers sometimes pay thousands of Dollars in DEPOSIT
and i can still get delayed even months, not just weeks, no, that's not the problem.

For God's sake, nobody is being mean or rude, lets face reality, nobody also deserves
to get banned from the forums over this, our finances are our concerns. Yes nobody
is forcing us into buying things but sometimes we try to get a half @$$ed product
working correctly and we get excited and last time i checked we are Humans...with feelings.


----------



## BasariStudios

RogiervG said:


> (pssst: 24 hours)


You should not have told them that.


----------



## Batwaffel

Quantum Leap said:


> I don’t have anything to do with pricing or any of that stuff. From my perspective, EW started the whole cheap pricing thing years ago and I’ve never been a fan. I think all the software is too cheap. - People get so angry. The truth is I would rather do other stuff than make videos. I’m not really very good at it. Opus is going to be good, but you can buy something else if you want. In the end, it’s more about your abilities at this point. As far as what have you done lately? I don’t know, Hollywood Choirs is my favorite choir library and won VI of the year. Hollywood Pop Brass is pretty cool. Stay healthy. -Nick


EW seems to have a lot of internal issues no one wants to deal with. You said Doug is off doing other things; if that is the case he needs to hire competent people who can run his company for him properly because the past decade has been an absolute mess. I've had some bad experiences with customer service and constantly hear the same from other people. It's like he wants to own the company but doesn't want to deal with the responsibility of running it properly.

I agree with you on the pricing. While it has increased the EW userbase, it's devalued the product and quite honestly, pissed off pretty much everyone who was heavily bought in up to the point that the subscription came out because we weren't even offered a lower rate for it based on the licenses we already owned. That was a massive slap in the face to everyone who supported the company for years. Now I get that you're not the owner and don't make those decisions but it seems like Doug is either completely oblivious or simply doesn't care about that and wants someone else to handle it. Probably the same people who argued against Doug's decision to give us Harps for free when we bought the other Hollywood sections.

My question would be: why is EW not handling this and putting you in a position where you have to? It's their job to make sure marketing is done properly and that communication is transparent and open with customers but because they obviously can't do it correctly, you have to step in and make a video? Is whomever is in charge of their marketing even aware that people are angry about the lack of communication and transparency?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Batwaffel said:


> I agree with you on the pricing. While it has increased the EW userbase, it's devalued the product and quite honestly, pissed off pretty much everyone who was heavily bought in up to the point that the subscription came out because we weren't even offered a lower rate for it based on the licenses we already owned. That was a massive slap in the face to everyone who supported the company for years. Now I get that you're not the owner and don't make those decisions but it seems like Doug is either completely oblivious or simply doesn't care about that and wants someone else to handle it. Probably the same people who argued against Doug's decision to give us Harps for free when we bought the other Hollywood sections.


I was going to say something similar, good post. You would think that the marketing, revenue and retention details would be on the radar for guys like Doug. Perhaps it is, but it doesn't seem like it. I agree CC was slap in the face, but it's water under the bridge. Even if they had offered some sort of loyalty product discount for guys/gals who have been in the EW game since good ol' Kompakt.


----------



## Willom

I contacted support to say I wished to cancel my composer cloud + subscription, which I took out the beginning of the month, based on the fact that Opus would be released on the 21st. They replied quickly and offered to cancel and refund the full amount, or pause the annual membership, and start it again when Opus is released.

Needless to say, I'm happy with that response.


----------



## Geomir

Willom said:


> I contacted support to say I wished to cancel my composer cloud + subscription, which I took out the beginning of the month, based on the fact that Opus would be released on the 21st. They replied quickly and offered to cancel and refund the full amount, or pause the annual membership, and start it again when Opus is released.
> 
> Needless to say, I'm happy with that response.


Which means that OPUS is not coming anytime soon.


----------



## muziksculp

Instead of OPUS we got OOPS


----------



## Chungus

TRON 1.0 said:


> Hey Nick,
> 
> Idk maybe you have already been asked about this but do you have in your plans to revisit EWQLSO, like to upgrade controls to improve playability, add some true legatos etc.? The samples in this library really shine even after almost two decades. I guess I'm not the only one who would like this library to get a more user friendly interface and playability.


I'd love this. In terms of just sonority, EWSO is still one of my favourite libraries. Unfortunately, I don't see such a revamp happening.


----------



## Markrs

Willom said:


> I contacted support to say I wished to cancel my composer cloud + subscription, which I took out the beginning of the month, based on the fact that Opus would be released on the 21st. They replied quickly and offered to cancel and refund the full amount, or pause the annual membership, and start it again when Opus is released.
> 
> Needless to say, I'm happy with that response.


Whilst the comms has been poor it is nice to see good customer service from them.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I’m pretty sure they are good people, and they have an excellent product. I’m just not sure that it’s very high on their ‘to do’ list.

I‘m in business, and I see all these people waiting for the product to drop, waiting for the launch with the credit/debit cards in their hands....

Other developers would give their right arm for such an opportunity...


----------



## Batwaffel

Willom said:


> I contacted support to say I wished to cancel my composer cloud + subscription, which I took out the beginning of the month, based on the fact that Opus would be released on the 21st. They replied quickly and offered to cancel and refund the full amount, or pause the annual membership, and start it again when Opus is released.
> 
> Needless to say, I'm happy with that response.


This makes me happy. Pretty much every interaction I've had in the past with support has been bad. If things are changing in that area, I find that to be fantastic. The one thing I agree with Nick on the most is the quality and genius of the products they put out. Even some 13+ years later, I still use Hollywood Strings on every orchestral project I do. That says a lot considering how many new libraries have come out the past decade and it competes very well with all of them still today without sounding dated at all. Hopefully OPUS takes care of the user friendliness aspect of it.


----------



## Trash Panda

Interestingly, during a chat with their CS team today, I was told the HWO Gold bundle listed at $266 is no longer available due to the impending release of OPUS. No timetable given, but seems a bit odd to stop offering that product if OPUS is not days away from release. At the same time, they haven't updated the from pricing on that page to the HWO Diamond price either, so odd may be the name of the game here.


----------



## lettucehat

"Guys we're sorry about this, lots going on and we're doing our best."

"I feel for the people doing their best, but things like this have led to a lack of trust over the years."

"I can't believe you've done this."


----------



## Quantum Leap

1. All east west employees and engineers and management have been working 6 days a week for the past 6 months to finish Opus with no breaks. 
2. There are 3 different facets which all need to work perfectly together. New engine, new library, new orchestrator. can’t be a buggy release. 
3. Will probably be released first quarter. 
4. I take offense to the ripping off accusations. If anything EW pioneered the lower price movement in this industry. They are trying to figure out pricing. 
5. Library will be good. You can buy it or pass on it. We did our best with this release.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

Quantum Leap said:


> 1. All east west employees and engineers and management have been working 6 days a week for the past 6 months to finish Opus with no breaks.
> 2. There are 3 different facets which all need to work perfectly together. New engine, new library, new orchestrator. can’t be a buggy release.
> 3. Will probably be released first quarter.
> 4. I take offense to the ripping off accusations. If anything EW pioneered the lower price movement in this industry. They are trying to figure out pricing.
> 5. Library will be good. You can buy it or pass on it. We did our best with this release.


Of course CC isn't a ripoff, even without Opus. But up until a few days ago, the January release date was still being advertised. Now it might be delayed until March or even later. The company _knew_ that there was no chance of having it ready on January 21st for a while now, yet still went on acting like it would be released on time.

This is the poor communication that is being complained about. Delays are often inevitable with large undertakings, but you need to keep people in the loop, not continue to advertise a release date that there was *zero* chance of being met, then suddenly at the last minute say that it is indefinitely delayed.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Willom said:


> I contacted support to say I wished to cancel my composer cloud + subscription, which I took out the beginning of the month, based on the fact that Opus would be released on the 21st. They replied quickly and offered to cancel and refund the full amount, or pause the annual membership, and start it again when Opus is released.
> 
> Needless to say, I'm happy with that response.


To those that are upset about the lack of communication of the new release date when they maybe opted into a CC subscription to time it with the release, this sounds like your solution. No reason to keep complaining.


----------



## artomatic

Okay. I've grown tired of this thread. 
I've waited since their announcement last Fall. 
I'll let myself out.


----------



## BasariStudios

LOL at the last response of QuantumLeap


----------



## Quantum Leap

Every time I come back here it just feels uncomfortable. I should make soup instead. No video for you Basari!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Quantum Leap said:


> Every time I come back here it just feels uncomfortable. I should make soup instead. No video for you Basari!


One voice does not speak for the entire community. I hope you'll reconsider Nick.


----------



## jamie8

Quantum Leap said:


> Every time I come back here it just feels uncomfortable. I should make soup instead. No video for you Basari!


im on composer cloud x and i for one when its ready am looking forward to this, everyone is worn down right now and i am glad you are on here nick., now go make soup


----------



## SlHarder

Quantum Leap said:


> Every time I come back here it just feels uncomfortable. I should make soup instead. No video for you Basari!


Nick

Too many folks here that just need to go make some music. I'm on CCloud and am looking forward to what Opus brings in the future.

And it's snowing here tonight so the navy beans are soaking for ham hock soup tomorrow.

Take care.


----------



## BasariStudios

Quantum Leap said:


> Every time I come back here it just feels uncomfortable. I should make soup instead. No video for you Basari!


Come on Nick. Just one video please.
If it wasn't for those i would not have owned
Any EWQL Products. I still call them EWQL.


----------



## BasariStudios

SlHarder said:


> Nick
> 
> Too many folks here that just need to go make some music.


You should've said Soup.


----------



## bvaughn0402

Quantum Leap said:


> Every time I come back here it just feels uncomfortable. I should make soup instead. No video for you Basari!


I teach college and it gets really easy to hear one disgruntled student as sounding like 500 more.

There are WAY more people on here excited about what you are doing and anxiously awaiting its release ... than anyone disgruntled.

I know to me I have so much greater respect for anyone who interfaces with customers, especially here when a few negative comments can feel like thousands. But it only feels that way ...


----------



## Quantum Leap

Thank God I won you over with the soup comment. COVID sucks. I will make a video.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Quantum Leap said:


> Every time I come back here it just feels uncomfortable. I should make soup instead. No video for you Basari!


It’s cool to see you here. Negativity aside, I think there’s more anticipated excitement about the Opus release than anything. My opinion is a fart in the wind, and I’m just another face in the proverbial crowd, but I’m stoked. I’ll be buying it regardless (I’m an EW “lifer”) and I’m confident it will be an epic library.

Ps- is there a release date for the soup?


----------



## BasariStudios

Quantum Leap said:


> Thank God I won you over with the soup comment. COVID sucks. I will make a video.


Thank You Sir!


----------



## Jose7822

Keep in mind that the reason why Basari, myself and others (I’m sure) are being critical of EW right now is PRECISELY because we care about the company and their products. Otherwise we wouldn’t give two shits about what got delayed, etc. EW just need to work on their communication and their pricing. It is a bit off putting, honestly. I almost did really go buy BBCO PRO, but decided not to buy on impulse and be a little more patient (only because at least Nick has been present here in the forum the past couple of days). If it weren’t for that, I would’ve given up after that “Syke!” moment at NAMM.

Anyway, looking forward to the videos. Thanks Nick!


----------



## AndyP

Quantum Leap said:


> Thank God I won you over with the soup comment. COVID sucks. I will make a video.


The mention of chocolate, even the enjoyment of the like, always finds much appeal here too!

Thanks for nerves here to read and post.


----------



## Markrs

Just to echo others comments. Nick, when you come here it might feel like you and the EW team are not feeling the love ❤ but actually it is the reverse.

Everyone here loves the products, they are excellent, we just want to have a better communication, or "relationship" like we have with other sample library companies. We want to have that dialogue.

Would love to see you or others from EW here on the forum. It is a lovely place. We are human, we get frustrated at times, plus Covid has made us all a bit cranky! But I have never found a better more caring music forum.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

bvaughn0402 said:


> I teach college and it gets really easy to hear one disgruntled student as sounding like 500 more.
> 
> There are WAY more people on here excited about what you are doing and anxiously awaiting its release ... than anyone disgruntled.
> 
> I know to me I have so much greater respect for anyone who interfaces with customers, especially here when a few negative comments can feel like thousands. But it only feels that way ...


Why can't it be both? My ComposerCloud subscription has been worth every penny. And I am incredibly excited about Opus. But I am also disappointed at how the delay in release was not communicated at all, right up to the scheduled release date. EW knew weeks ago that there was no way they would have it ready by the 21st. If the delay would have been announced, say 2 or 3 weeks ago, then probably very few would have had an issue.

EW makes great products, and I am definitely very much looking forward to Opus. HO is a great set of libraries, that unfortunately has mediocre ease of use. The new Opus player is going to solve all of this, and finally bring HO up to the level of modern libraries with regards to usability.

And this is awesome! But their lack of communication and transparency regarding the delay is not.

Also, the "we are still figuring out the pricing" line just feels off. I mean, if they were pushing the January 21st release date all the way up to the 21st, surely the pricing is already set. If EW would have simply either said "here is the pricing for when Opus is released", or "we don't provide any pricing information until a product is actually released", I would have been fine with it. And I suppose many others would have as well.


----------



## Daniel James

Quantum Leap said:


> Every time I come back here it just feels uncomfortable. I should make soup instead. No video for you Basari!


I forgot how sensitive you guys are 😂

Perhaps you should roll the forum up nice and tight then shove it up your ass...as you guys so eloquently put it to a disgruntled customer to do with one of your libraries once upon a time.

People are talking about the libraries, when you start making things look like personal attacks, battle lines get drawn. Rise above it, you clearly want people to buy your libraries, its not personal, so be professional or just let it go.

And been as though you ban any dissenting voice from your own forums I imagine stepping out of your safe space to visit VI does feel a little uncomfortable. Hearing actual opinions and all that. We still love you, but come on, be better than this.

-DJ


----------



## SupremeFist

Guys... there is still a global pandemic on. None of us knows what Nick and Doug and the reat of the team at EW are going through that has nothing to do with samples. So let's maybe cut them some slack?


----------



## FireGS

Quantum Leap said:


> Every time I come back here it just feels uncomfortable.


There's probably a reason for that. I have no skin in this game, but it seems like the big problem across this thread is either a lack of communication, or a complete failure of communication (i.e., not addressing people's concerns). 

As a business owner who wants to retain customers, often times ego has to be checked at the door and discover what failures occurred that allowed customers to become unhappy - and see if there's an ability to make things right or there's the potential to lose the customer. 

It seems like there's an unwillingness on EW's part to understand the frustrations of the people here who have either felt robbed, duped, or otherwise mistreated. Again, as a business owner, I'd wish to retain customers and grow the customer base by figuring out what happened, what can be done, and how do we move forward. None of the EW replies seem to want to do any of those things and come off as combative, and one might say, arrogant. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Ivan Duch

I can only imagine how many people upgraded their CC account, or purchased/upgraded HWO. In their marketing they constantly pushed customers to do so and expect a jan 21 release. 

So in all honesty I don't think people is overreacting too much. It's good to know their support is refunding the upgrades, though.


----------



## Jose7822

SupremeFist said:


> Guys... there is still a global pandemic on. None of us knows what Nick and Doug and the reat of the team at EW are going through that has nothing to do with samples. So let's maybe cut them some slack?


Shouldn’t that thinking also be applied to the rest of us? We’re all together in this (pandemic) after all.


----------



## Jose7822

Daniel James said:


> I forgot how sensitive you guys are 😂
> 
> Perhaps you should roll the forum up nice and tight then shove it up your ass...as you guys so eloquently put it to a disgruntled customer to do with one of your libraries once upon a time.
> 
> People are talking about the libraries, when you start making things look like personal attacks, battle lines get drawn. Rise above it, you clearly want people to buy your libraries, its not personal, so be professional or just let it go.
> 
> And been as though you ban any dissenting voice from your own forums I imagine stepping out of your safe space to visit VI does feel a little uncomfortable. Hearing actual opinions and all that. We still love you, but come on, be better than this.
> 
> -DJ



Well, there goes that idea of having you demo OPUS lol.

BTW, Daniel, I love your honesty! It is the reason I watch your product reviews. No bullshit.


----------



## Trash Panda

Original post:



Daniel James said:


> I forgot how sensitive you guys are 😂
> 
> -DJ



Edited post:


Daniel James said:


> I forgot how sensitive you guys are 😂
> 
> Perhaps you should roll the forum up nice and tight then shove it up your ass...as you guys so eloquently put it to a disgruntled customer to do with one of your libraries once upon a time.
> 
> People are talking about the libraries, when you start making things look like personal attacks, battle lines get drawn. Rise above it, you clearly want people to buy your libraries, its not personal, so be professional or just let it go.
> 
> And been as though you ban any dissenting voice from your own forums I imagine stepping out of your safe space to visit VI does feel a little uncomfortable. Hearing actual opinions and all that. We still love you, but come on, be better than this.
> 
> -DJ


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

SupremeFist said:


> Guys... there is still a global pandemic on. None of us knows what Nick and Doug and the reat of the team at EW are going through that has nothing to do with samples. So let's maybe cut them some slack?


Frankly, that’s a moot point. We all have s$&t going on in our lives, and many people spent their hard earned cash on CC, based on an advertised release date. And now, EW is saying it will “probably be released first quarter”.... which takes us up to the end of March.


----------



## Daniel James

Trash Panda said:


> Original post:
> 
> 
> 
> Edited post:



I didn't finish my thought before submitting. It happens.


----------



## FireGS

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Frankly, that’s a moot point. We all have s$&t going on in our lives, and many people spent their hard earned cash on CC, based on an advertised release date. And now, EW is saying it will “probably be released first quarter”.... which takes us up to the end of March.


Let's also not forget the word, "probably". 

Could also mean "probably not".


----------



## AndyP

Let me ask you a question, for all the largely justified criticism. Is anyone not getting their projects done now because OPUS hasn't been released yet?
At the end of the day, for most people it's more a question of: when do I spend my budget? But pretty much all of us can work, right?


----------



## I like music

FireGS said:


> Let's also not forget the word, "probably".
> 
> Could also mean "probably not".


If they'd said 'possibly' I'd agree with you. Probably does give us more hope. Though at this point I'm going to treat that probable as a mere possible.


----------



## I like music

AndyP said:


> Let me ask you a question, for all the largely justified criticism. Is anyone not getting their projects done now because OPUS hasn't been released yet?
> At the end of the day, for most people it's more a question of: when do I spend my budget? But pretty much all of us can work, right?


Disagree. You will see, once this is released, that you won't be able to access this forum because there will be such a deluge of new compositions in the Members' Composition subforum. 

VIC might even crash.


----------



## Rtomproductions

Lol. Y'all are some drama llamas.


----------



## Johnny

Daniel James said:


> I didn't finish my thought before submitting. It happens.


I think you are right on point though... I mean, when one opens up a business and would like to attract customers to sell their pies to, they also need to have their customer service chops in check. You are just saying it how it is, and people respect that. If they are tired of running their pie shop, then driving Uber is always a 2020 alternative post Covid. But the reality is, people are indeed feeling skeptical with the lack of transparency and usual smoke and Oofs, that Opus might also be just another cash grab... That being said, I do believe Nick when he implies they've put their best foot forward on this one of course : ) And so should the community, but I do think that clarity and visibility will definitely help clear the air, even if it has to be the walkthru that we were all waiting for at NAMM- why be afraid to showcase your best foot forward if that is the case? Loud and proud!  If I make a mistake while performing live on stage, I make it a nice giant mistake so that everyone in the audience can hear! (And laugh at me) No one remembers in a week anyways, because they all have too much to watch on titok/youtube/twitch and twitter to keep them fully distracted ;p Cheers!


----------



## Wlad

AndyP said:


> Let me ask you a question, for all the largely justified criticism. Is anyone not getting their projects done now because OPUS hasn't been released yet?
> At the end of the day, for most people it's more a question of: when do I spend my budget? But pretty much all of us can work, right?


My example... A new project that I'm working on starts in a week's time. I intended to invest a week of my time to rebuild my template with the idea that OPUS will come out by now and I will be able to implement it so I don't have to rebuild/update the template twice in 2-3 months.


----------



## SupremeFist

Wlad said:


> My example... A new project that I'm working on starts in a week's time. I intended to invest a week of my time to rebuild my template with the idea that OPUS will come out till now and I will be able to implement it so I don't have to rebuild/update the template twice in 2-3 months.


Why would you have pre-committed to using Opus in a new project when you haven't heard or used it yet??


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Wlad said:


> My example... A new project that I'm working on starts in a week's time. I intended to invest a week of my time to rebuild my template with the idea that OPUS will come out till now and I will be able to implement it so I don't have to rebuild/update the template twice in 2-3 months.


I’m in the same boat! At the end of the day though, first world problems.


----------



## Wlad

SupremeFist said:


> Why would you have pre-committed to using Opus in a new project when you haven't heard or used it yet??


Well, logically, if it had came out by now, I would be able to hear it. xD


----------



## AndyP

Wlad said:


> My example... A new project that I'm working on starts in a week's time. I intended to invest a week of my time to rebuild my template with the idea that OPUS will come out till now and I will be able to implement it so I don't have to rebuild/update the template twice in 2-3 months.


That's a good point, of course.
I won't touch my HO template again until OPUS is here and I should purchase it. Until then, my current template will do.


----------



## Ivan Duch

I think the criticism is about how EW approaches marketing and their customer relationships.

If any of us really needs to buy yet another orchestral library or even if HWO as it is today is usable or not is another matter.

I think most of our clients don't care if we use HWO, Cinematic Series, BBCSO or any other decent product, it sounds all the same to them, but again, that's no the issue here.

And I think companies need to hear this sort of stuff to improve. Because the way their marketing department handled the whole thing is terrible.


----------



## Wlad

Ivan Duch said:


> I think the criticism is about how EW approaches marketing and their customer relationships.
> 
> If any of us really needs to buy yet another orchestral library or even if HWO as it is today is usable or not is another matter.
> 
> I think most of our clients don't care if we use HWO, Cinematic Series, BBCSO or any other decent product, it sounds all the same to them, but again, that's no the issue here.
> 
> And I think companies need to hear this sort of stuff to improve. Because the way their marketing department handled the whole thing is terrible.


Completely agree with you, but we are the ones that care the most about what libraries we have at our disposal. Whether it is for their workflow, sound, how inspiring they are to us, or some other reasons. They are our tools and we build our businesses around them... some of us at least.

Imagine EW schedules the orchestra for the recording session of its new OPUS library. Chairs and mics are in their positions, recording engineers at the mixing desk, and the orchestra just doesn't show up, and without any notice or explanation. Then Nick Phoenix starts bashing the orchestra on forums on how unprofessional they are. A few days later conductor shows up on the forum and says to Nick... "What's all the fuss about?... we will come and record some time in the Q1 of 2021".


----------



## Ivan Duch

Wlad said:


> Completely agree with you, but we are the ones that care the most about what libraries we have at our disposal. Whether it is for their workflow, sound, how inspiring they are to us, or some other reasons. They are our tools and we build our businesses around them... some of us at least.
> 
> Imagine EW schedules the orchestra for the recording session of its new OPUS library. Chairs and mics are in their positions, recording engineers at the mixing desk, and the orchestra just doesn't show up, and without any notice or explanation. Then Nick Phoenix starts bashing the orchestra on forums on how unprofessional they are. A few days later conductor shows up on the forum and says to Nick... "What's all the fuss about?... we will come and record some time in the Q1 of 2021".


Yes, totally agreed. I was mostly answering to those relativizing the whole ordeal by saying we can keep on working.

And that to me is not no even the point, the issue was with their marketing and unfulfilled promises which urged people to buy their stuff over the past months. They literally told people to buy diamond or upgrade their CC in preparation for the Jan release.

If we really need the stuff we were promised is beside the point.

Also, I think we all understand shit happens, but if I over promise and under deliver to a client I know I'm gonna be apologizing like crazy. That's the professional thing to do.


----------



## tc9000

I don't really care that much about marketing. I don't get all in a lather when a new library crops up. I listen to the demos; I _expect _them to be a bit jazzed up. I usually try to find some bod plonking on the keys on a youtube vid to really 'hear' the library, after it comes out. TBH I wish the marketing budget could be cut and spent on more studio time, more QA testing, more features, better UX and so on. There's an argument that marketing actually contributes nothing to products - you just have to spend on it because if you don't, the competition will, and they'll win cos everyone listens to the jazzed up demo and gets their wallets out 

OK OK I lied I do sometimes get in a bit a lather.


----------



## Evans

tc9000 said:


> I don't really care that much about marketing. I don't get all in a lather when a new library crops up. I listen to the demos; I _expect _them to be a bit jazzed up. I usually try to find some bod plonking on the keys on a youtube vid to really 'hear' the library, after it comes out. TBH I wish the marketing budget could be cut and spent on more studio time, more QA testing, more features, better UX and so on. There's an argument that marketing actually contributes nothing to products - you just have to spend on it because if you don't, the competition will, and they'll win cos everyone listens to the jazzed up demo and gets their wallets out
> 
> OK OK I lied I do sometimes get in a bit a lather.


The problem is that "the best prices that you have to jump on right now" typically come before all that information is available, which is a huge influence on almost any buyer.


----------



## tc9000

Intro pricing! No downloadable demo version available, but listen to this track a living GOD created HAHAHA 😂


----------



## tc9000

OK lets take this to a dark place! Screw it!!! I have seen some of the sales apparatus available to online companies in general (not in this sector) and its a bit creepy / scary. There are systems that track exacly how much you have spent and how many times you've looked at a page and for how long... did you open that email about the new clarinet library? Did you click on that link? Did you watch the youtube video? Maybe if you received a personal voucher you might bite.... now, lets look at your spending history - what kind of reduction would be enough to tip you into a sale..... OKOK wayyyy off topic here - not relevant to OPUS.... this capability is in the hands of a lot of e-retail companies.


----------



## tc9000

OK how about this: what if marketing has actually massively shaped this industry - so we have working pros, and we got hobbyists too: maybe, juuust maybe what if marketing was the reason for all the hobbyists joining this sector? and what if its brought LOOOTS of them? so pros are happy to drop thousands on a new library. but hobbyists (like me i hasten to add), we have a lower price point sweet-spot. but maybe it all still works if you bring in enough hobbyists - so maybe, in a way, we hobbyists are responsible for creating the monstrous marketing we sometimes see... and we pay for it by getting access to libraries at a fraction of the price of 5 or 10 years ago? man - if thats true im ok with that!


----------



## tc9000

now that i think of it, ive bought a lot more libraries than i actually need... but i paid a lot less for them than i would have if....

OK i need to go do something else! byeeeee


----------



## Crossroads

Okay, I'm gonna be honest and say I found Nick's reactions to this whole debacle highly unprofessional. So much so, that I, being a EW fan, have kinda completely lost interest. Sorry man. You did your absolute not best. But also what that company pulled is not acceptable at all. And you can make jokes about it, but sorry. This is unprecedented. Make jokes about soup all you like... but I feel insulted.

You should be ashamed! Honestly, I truly mean it. I can deal with a lot of BS, but luring people into a sales deal, then pretend it's coming, and just stay silent and just regurgitating what you guys have done in the past... I don't know what marketing it is, but it's %^&&ing shameful. And then to call people sensitive because they complain. What the fuck is that kinda response?

This is how you deal with customers? Fine. Lose one. Now I am stuck on a year's deal for CC because of this. It's atrocious. I am losing money to your fucking practices. You realize that don't you? Maybe not everyone has got the same funds as you, ever thought about that?

You know what, I don't care how great it's gonna be. I don't care about the pedigree of the studio. I don't care anymore at all. Best hall in LA my ass. I don't live in LA so I couldn't actually give less of a rat's ass. Time to get a refund for my CC subscription and go back to Diamond, because honestly, that one was good. And it works. I can work my expression maps around your lack of keyswitches.

But, very honestly, %^&* you. I'm not being emotional either. That response was so unrespectful, you lost all my interest, right here and now. And then complaining about people getting emotional like it's our fault. Highly, highly unprofessional.

Show, don't tell will be my mantra from now on. Fuck your past wins. I don't care who you are, or who Doug is, or how busy he is, or how much your employees work overtime. You run a business right or you don't. You're not a victim. I was with you guys until you started to pretend YOU'RE the victim here. Boo fucking hoo. There, I said it. I've never seen a company be so disrespectful to it's customers and then start complaining about sensitivity. I've never seen something as unprofessional as this. It's disgusting. Shame. Fucking shame. Luckily I don't deal with LA politics so I don't have to care what I say. It's a blessing sometimes.

Happy sailing, sailor. @Daniel James  might've edited his response, but I won't. He was right by the way.


----------



## José Herring

Wow, people way too sensitive these days. Nick's response was relatively subdued compared yesteryear. I didn't find anything particularly offensive about it. But, I'm a fan of EW so I might be compromised.


----------



## Crossroads

José Herring said:


> Wow, people way too sensitive these days. Nick's response was relatively subdued compared yesteryear. I didn't find anything particularly offensive about it. But, I'm a fan of EW so I might be compromised.


I was a fan too. But I won't accept this. They are playing people willingly and acting like victims. Fuck em. Wanna go the AVID route? Cool. Miss me with that shit.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Crossroads said:


> Now I am stuck on a year's deal for CC because of this. It's atrocious.


You literally are not. Support is offering to pause the subscription until Opus comes out or refund you completely.

The mob mentality / tantrum throwing nature of Vi-C is in full effect in this thread.


----------



## MauroPantin

_Off the Florida Keys, there's a place called Drama Zone
That's where you wanna go to get away from it all
Bodies in the sand, tropical drink melting in your hand
We'll be falling in love to the rhythm of a steel drum band
Down in Drama Zone_


----------



## Crossroads

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You literally are not. Support is offering to pause the subscription until Opus comes out or refund you completely.
> 
> The mob mentality / tantrum throwing nature of Vi-C is in full effect in this thread.


Mob mentality? What planet are you living on? You wanna pretend they're innocent?

And still, that forgives the mentality here?


----------



## cqd

Granted they are late after announcing it would be out last week, the complaining is a bit much I reckon..

I would much rather wait an extra few weeks for a finished product, than a half arsed rushed release..

Delays with libraries are pretty much par for the course these days..


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Crossroads said:


> Mob mentality? What planet are you living on?


One that you're clearly not on. One where the irony of screaming about being unprofessional while you are swearing at a developer is quite clear.


----------



## Crossroads

ALittleNightMusic said:


> One that you're clearly not on. One where the irony of screaming about being unprofessional while you are swearing at a developer is quite clear.


A developer that clearly fucked me and others willingly I might add... or are you gonna pretend they didn't? Or are they so innocent they didn't know?

The amount of defending here borders on psychotic sometimes. And don't talk about being professional here. Clearly both sides aren't. So let's let that slip.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Crossroads said:


> A developer that clearly fucked me willingly I might add...


As I stated, you have options to pause your subscription or get a refund. Take either one and then since you clearly don't care about the product, plenty of other options available to unblock your music making (assuming you are actually writing music).


----------



## Crossroads

ALittleNightMusic said:


> As I stated, you have options to pause your subscription or get a refund. Take either one and then since you clearly don't care about the product, plenty of other options available to unblock your music making (assuming you are actually writing music).


Yeah, you have now, but you have to be in the know. No clear stance on this. Nothing on their website, no apology, nothing. So clearly they don't like people taking up on that.

You do realize they are now legally forced to comply and they only comply because of the fact that they could get sued for false advertising or not?

This is not good will. They have to. They are willing to skirt the edges of legality until they are called back. I know American corporate business ethics. And I hate them to my bones. They're not figuring out price, they are figuring out the legal consequences of this. This is propably what most of those employees were busy with 6 days a week.

Oh, and we were talking about professionalism? Read your very last sentence mate?

Ps. I care very much about a product I was lured into getting a year's subscription for without ability to cancel or pause until now. I had no knowledge about that. Propably because there was no way to do it until it became legally interesting. Always trying to find those edges of those laws eh?

They're not innocent. They propably pay more for lawyers than making their products. Like many US companies. Apparently it's to be expected these days.

For clearance to others: yes I am fucking tired of the US's idea of capitalism and I truly hope it will die in a big fat fucking fire so the world can move on to better times. For me, US capitalism is about constantly skirting the edges of what is allowed and constantly moving the line to where it can't budge no more. This, what EW were doing, is a clear example of this. And in light of that, Nick's reaction was fucking unprofessional and making people feel like imbeciles. We're not imbeciles Nick. We don't hate you. But you are acting like a moron. Willingly, because you know you are much smarter than that. Otherwise you would've never gotten this far in your career. So don't play the innocent fool. Please.

Yes, I'm harsh. Yes, I'm personal. Someone had to be. @Quantum Leap I hope you have the balls to actually react to the criticism the way you should. Otherwise, lose respect for all I care. Do business, do false business, get involved into false business, feel the consequence. You showed your face willingly in that video, your name is willingly on the advertising, so you too are willingly responsible. Now act like it. And stop playing an innocent fool. If you are not part of this, then detach yourself. Or explain. You owe it to those lured into a parasitic advertising scheme that you may or may not have been part of. But your name is plastered all across it. So please, if you feel obliged... take center stage. And show us the passion behind this thing... because for now, the only passion I feel is the passion for screwing people over willingly. If there's any real passion behind this, please let me know. Because corporate passion seems to be taking center stage here, not personal passion.


----------



## bvaughn0402

I imagine right now Spitfire is reading this and thinking "... maybe they really do love us on VI-Control".


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

@staypuft.....is that you?


----------



## BasariStudios

José Herring said:


> Wow, people way too sensitive these days. Nick's response was relatively subdued compared yesteryear. I didn't find anything particularly offensive about it. But, I'm a fan of EW so I might be compromised.


No they are not! My close to 10k given to them are sensitive though.


----------



## Lazer42

I was a (I think justly) a bit critical above of the way EW have handled this, so let me now jump in and offer a thought in their defense: I think it's very possible that we as a community have played at least some part in what's going on here. 

In the reply above, QuantumLeap said that this has to be a bug free launch. It sounds to me like they're really concerned about this, and that may have played a role in this delay. While if I had to guess I'd say they knew a lot sooner than a day or two before the 21st that they wouldn't be able to launch on that date, I nevertheless think it's plausible that some kinds of unexpected bugs did crop up as they moved closer to the original advertised launch date and if so, they may have reacted to them sortof like in some ways society reacted to COVID: with the willingness to do anything and pay any cost to eliminate every last bug. Why may EW have done this?

We all know that if you go to any forum post (here or anywhere else) or any Youtube video or essentially anywhere else that mentions an EW library, at least _somebody_ will comment that Play is a buggy mess that crashes all the time - and often it's a lot more than one person. This is in spite of the fact that for years now, it's more or less been perfectly stable. Play had a very rough go of it in terms of bugs when it launched, and even though it's been years now since that was an issue, the reputation EW has is *still, *among many*, *that their products are too buggy and unreliable to use. 

While we're hardly all to blame, there's no question that too many people have perpetuated this view over the years. So in a sense, if the people at EW have reacted to some issues in development by suddenly pushing everything back indefinitely just to make sure everything goes perfectly at launch, I can't blame them for that. 

That doesn't mean I think they're faultless in how they've handled this - the mixed messaging about prices stands out, for instance - but it's something to consider.


----------



## BasariStudios

I asked Tech support to revoke my HO Diamond License and refund me,
if not i'l just go to my CC Support, its only a week old Transaction.
I can't stay in suspense. Yes no one forced me to buy it but as a normal
person i expected that a half baked product as HS Diamond, OPUS maybe
will improve it. On top of that i paid another 400$ for HO Diamond and now
not having a clue how much Opus will cost me? Their tech support telling
one thing to only 5 min later tell you another thing. I've chatted wit them,
3 times same person, on 5 different email address, the same Person told
me 3 different things 3 times in 1 hour, don't wanna mention the name.
So to break this down. I paid originally close to 700$ i think for HS Diamond,
then close to 300$ for HB Gold. That's a Grand. They were both half baked
but i could live with it since i love the sounds. Then 400$ for full HO Diamond
again that made it 1400$. And now i heard about OPUS and thought oh, finally
my half baked products have a chance. HOOPUS should be free for people who
paid like me. And now you are telling me after 1400$ just on HO Diamond i do
not deserve to have a clue what HOOPUS will cost me? Nah thanks.
Back to my CC Support. And YES, HOOPUS should be free for people who paid 
almost 1500$ for HO Diamond. HOOPUS should've happened a decade ago,
to me it will be just an update of a half @$$ed product. Give me the player
and organized HO, i don't give a damn about new content.
Every developer that announced new product also announces prices, how much
for existing users, ho much for new users how much for this how much for that.
You damn support the same person tells 3 different things in 1 hour.
You are all over the place.


----------



## BasariStudios

ALittleNightMusic said:


> As I stated, you have options to pause your subscription or get a refund. Take either one and then since you clearly don't care about the product, plenty of other options available to unblock your music making (assuming you are actually writing music).


O yeah? What about us who paid in full for a License ahead of time???


----------



## szczaw

BasariStudios said:


> I paid originally close to 700$ i think for HS Diamond,
> then close to 300$ for HB Gold.


You bought Gold after you purchased Diamond ? No offense, but that sounds ass-backwards. Edit: ah sorry, you got different sections.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

BasariStudios said:


> O yeah? What about us who paid in full for a License ahead of time???


Do I look like EW support? You probably should contact them. I also paid for a full HO Diamond license last year - turns out it works without Opus!



BasariStudios said:


> They were both half baked


Funny since plenty of people are using them, even today, to make extremely convincing mockups. Maybe it's the baker...



BasariStudios said:


> And now you are telling me after 1400$ just on HO Diamond i do
> not deserve to have a clue what HOOPUS will cost me?


Yes, that's literally how the world works. Buying a product does not give you special access to the roadmap or future prices 99.9% of the time. Do you know what will be in the next iPhone? I have bought the last 10 so obviously I deserve to know and how much it will cost me, NOW - not when Apple is ready! 

I think developers would actually enjoy interacting with members of this forum if feedback was provided in a constructive, mature manner. Instead, Vi-C inevitably devolves into ranting and raving.


----------



## BasariStudios

szczaw said:


> You bought Gold after you purchased Diamond ? No offense, but that sounds ass-backwards. Edit: ah sorry, you got different sections.


Read my comment again.


----------



## BasariStudios

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Do I look like EW support?


No you don't...then don't bother people if you are not EW support.


----------



## BasariStudios

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Yes, that's literally how the world works. Buying a product does not give you special access to the roadmap or future prices 99.9% of the time.


You want me to post right now 10-15 developers who gave/give prices
way before release? Full Prices, Upgrade Prices, Whatever Prices?
Just say so. It is not even freaking a different product just a rewrapped
HO Diamond, in their own words, what world you live in?


----------



## Rtomproductions

It's odd watching adults melt down over a delayed product release and what amounts to a pretty tame response from a company rep (most companies wouldn't even bother). I don't have CC to get new products; I have it so I can have continued access to their massive catalogue of instruments that I use to pay my mortgage (and yes, my scoring template is disproportionately EW based considering how many other libraries I own). That they periodically release new products is just a bonus to me.

I think a lot of people take the value that CC offers for granted. It's "shut up and take my money" value. Seriously. Y'all need to chill and let them do their thing. Yeesh.


----------



## BasariStudios

Rtomproductions said:


> It's odd watching "adults" melt down over a delayed product release and what amounts to a pretty tame response from a company rep (most companies wouldn't even bother).


You see, the problem are people like you, repeating the same nonsense 
over and over. No one is Melting because of the timing, the bigger issue 
is the secret of pricing, go read few comments instead of just looking 
at few letters. You see, now you will tell me that i attacked you but i did
not, you are just spewing something that makes no sense, go read few
comments and you will see. I do not care about release time, there is
few other more important things to care about OPUS than release time.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

BasariStudios said:


> No you don't...then don't bother people if you are not EW support.


You’re the one who quoted me in the first place 😂 who’s bothering who?

I feel bad for you honestly. That this trivial a matter causes this much stress in your life. Maybe save your hard earned money from now on if you are this upset about parting with a few hundred bucks for a product (that works fine as is). Because guess what, Opus will not be perfect. And neither will the next library. Or the next one after that. From any developer.


----------



## Trash Panda

I think most people are reasonable and understand the delay in launching. Some won’t be ok with it regardless of reasons, but they’re in the minority.

What appears to be rubbing folks the wrong way is the lack of communication around the delay, a marketing push that encouraged purchase of a subscription or license based on a given release date that wasn’t met, a lack of transparency on cost and a perception of combativeness from one of the producers.

Does it excuse some of the over the top responses? Not at all. If you’re going to criticize those who feel like they were burned though, at least get the reasoning behind their ire right.


----------



## BasariStudios

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You’re the one who quoted me in the first place 😂 who’s bothering who?


Yes, i did quote you because you acted like you are their tech support. If you don't have skin in the game then don't bother responding here.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

BasariStudios said:


> It is not even freaking a different product just a rewrapped
> HO Diamond, in their own words, what world you live in?


That’s not exactly true. Opus has new content, including new recordings and new sections/ensembles. I didn’t read anywhere about it being HO Diamond.


----------



## Rtomproductions

BasariStudios said:


> You see, the problem are people like you, repeating the same nonsense
> over and over. No one is Melting because of the timing, the bigger issue
> is the secret of pricing, go read few comments instead of just looking
> at few letters. You see, now you will tell me that i attacked you but i did
> not, you are just spewing something that makes no sense, go read few
> comments and you will see. I do not care about release time, there is
> few other more important things to care about OPUS than release time.


This is also odd to me. Why does everyone need to know how much it will cost before it's been released? I'm genuinely curious as to why this is a sticking point.

If it ends up costing more than you're willing to pay, then it won't matter if you know that now or in two months; the simple fact is that you won't buy it because it's more than you're wiling to pay. If it doesn't, I still can't see how it's relevant/important information, because you won't be able to buy it until it's been released anyway.

Just...odd. I think I'll go have some soup as well


----------



## BasariStudios

Jeremy Spencer said:


> That’s not exactly true. Opus has new content, including new recordings and new sections/ensembles. I didn’t read anywhere about it being HO Diamond.


In their own words it is except another Set of 18 Violins i think. 
Tech support told me that. The content is all the same except extra Violins.


----------



## BasariStudios

Rtomproductions said:


> This is also odd to me. Why does everyone need to know how much it will cost before it's been released? I'm genuinely curious as to why this is a sticking point.
> 
> If it ends up costing more than you're willing to pay, then it won't matter if you know that now or in two months; the simple fact is that you won't buy it because it's more than you're wiling to pay. If it doesn't, I still can't see how it's relevant/important information, because you won't be able to buy it until it's been released anyway.
> 
> Just...odd. I think I'll go have some soup as well


Because some of us bought HO yesterday on the basis of that, the upgrade price, their tech support advising us to jot buy now or to buy and with the hope of finally being able to use HO easier. Its as simple as that.


----------



## BasariStudios

Rtomproductions said:


> I think I'll go have some soup as well


Don't forget about the rest of us.


----------



## JEPA

I have a newbie question: If I wanted to start a new company and wanted to release a new product, should I announce it and give release date before it’s fully completely developed or should I first wait till I am satisfied with the end product ready for sales and THEN announce its release date? 
Thank you in advance!


----------



## Michael Antrum

The thing is that there were quite a few people earlier in this thread, myself included, who were pretty sure this was going to happen. Go back and check. I'm not going after a 'I told you so T Shirt', but becuase we've seen how the company performs in the past, we had a pretty good idea how it would perform in the future.

Things guaranteed to annoy existing companies like upgrade pricing costing more than new licences - and never any attempts to correct or even acknowledge it.

So it appears they either can't be arsed to fix it, don't give a shit about it, are simply too busy with other things going on in their lives or they have set their company up in such a way as doing anything at all is overly complex and difficult to achieve - a kind of corporate paralysis. It could also be that they simply don't see any of this as a problem.

So, when I saw those adverts urging people to upgrade their subscription, and purchase the missing libraries, forgive me, but this is exactly the way I thought it would go. I'll expect OPUS when I see it and if I had to guess, proabably sometime around summer.

Thing is, is that I don't see any of this as a problem, myself. It's historically been a great product, but there are others, and so, in the famous line I use with my kids, I'm not angry, but I am a little disappointed.

That's kind of how I feel about East West, at least with regard to how they operate the company. I'm sure the people are great, I know that many of the products are simply first class, but as to other aspects of their offering...

So the takeway from this is - if you set yourself up to disappoint your customers, don't be surprised when they act disappointed....

It reminds me of somehting David Niven wrote in one his biographies about Errol Flynn - 'You could always rely on Errol, he _always_ let you down.....'


----------



## Jose7822

JEPA said:


> I have a newbie question: If I wanted to start a new company and wanted to release a new product, should I announce it and give release date before it’s fully completely developed or should I first wait till I am satisfied with the end product ready for sales and THEN announce its release date?
> Thank you in advance!



Well, that depends on the type of response you’re looking for. If this thread’s response thus far is what you want, then go with the former. On the other hand, if you’re looking to be praised by your customers for all eternity, then the latter is the way to go :-P.


----------



## Jdiggity1

@BasariStudios , you keep making some false claims in here.

Firstly, Hollywood Orchestra (Gold or Diamond) is not a "half assed" product, nor is it unfinished. It is very much a complete product, sampled deeper than most other competitor libraries, and has been out for... just short of ten years now? If you recently bought it, congrats! It's fantastic, and great value.

Secondly, EW have said "in their own words" a number of times and in a number of locations around the internet (including a post by @Quantum Leap HERE), that there are new samples and recorded material included in the OPUS expansion, including a new 1st Violins section, 2 Trombones, 2 Trumpets, and Woodwind sections.

It is not as simple as a "rewrapped" Hollywood Orchestra. I believe the player is being updated for the original product, but the new OPUS content is referred to as an "Expansion", not an upgrade or update.

Now, I'm not asking you to stop airing your grievances in here, you have the right to do that, but please tone down the hostility towards other members.


----------



## Jose7822

Michael Antrum said:


> The thing is that there were quite a few people earlier in this thread, myself included, who were pretty sure this was going to happen. Go back and check. I'm not going after a 'I told you so T Shirt', but becuase we've seen how the company performs in the past, we had a pretty good idea how it would perform in the future.
> 
> Things guaranteed to annoy existing companies like upgrade pricing costing more than new licences - and never any attempts to correct or even acknowledge it.
> 
> So it appears they either can't be arsed to fix it, don't give a shit about it, are simply too busy with other things going on in their lives or they have set their company up in such a way as doing anything at all is overly complex and difficult to achieve - a kind of corporate paralysis. It could also be that they simply don't see any of this as a problem.
> 
> So, when I saw those adverts urging people to upgrade their subscription, and purchase the missing libraries, forgive me, but this is exactly the way I thought it would go. I'll expect OPUS when I see it and if I had to guess, proabably sometime around summer.
> 
> Thing is, is that I don't see any of this as a problem, myself. It's historically been a great product, but there are others, and so, in the famous line I use with my kids, I'm not angry, but I am a little disappointed.
> 
> That's kind of how I feel about East West, at least with regard to how they operate the company. I'm sure the people are great, I know that many of the products are simply first class, but as to other aspects of their offering...
> 
> So the takeway from this is - if you set yourself up to disappoint your customers, don't be surprised when they act disappointed....
> 
> It reminds me of somehting David Niven wrote in one his biographies about Errol Flynn - 'You could always rely on Errol, he _always_ let you down.....'



I agree with you. Yet, what pisses me off about EW is that there are really good people working there, and doing so very hard to make the best products in the market. I know that because I used to beta test for them during the start of the Hollywood series, and even got the pleasure to meet awesome people both from software development and customer service.

But, like you said, they always disappoint when it comes to release dates. And they will continue to disappoint until the day we vote with our wallets and say “enough is enough”. Unless we hold them accountable for always missing release dates, instead of waiting until the product is actually finished as they should, this will continue to happen. Unfortunately, it sounds like Nick Phoenix is not involved enough with EW to make decisions in this regard. Maybe we shouldn’t be so harsh on him. I honestly don’t know his level of involvement, so I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

That said, I do hope that he brings attention of this thread to the people that do have the power to change this behavior of announcing things before they are tangible (especially if you’re gonna be recommending your customers to join your subscription program). If companies just knew how much better they look when they simply wait until the product is done before announcing it, they would. Fortunately, some companies do!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Guy walks into a bar and asks for a beer.

Bartender pours him a cold one in a glass. Also tells him that he can transfer it to a chilled glass once it is ready.

Guy refuses to drink beer until glass is changed. Accuses bartender of fraud for serving him the beer in the first place and claims the beer is not even beer, but piss.

Meanwhile, guy at the other end of the bar is drinking his beer in his regular glass and is much happier.


----------



## Michael Antrum

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Guy walks into a bar and asks for a beer.
> 
> Bartender pours him a cold one in a glass. Also tells him that he can transfer it to a chilled glass once it is ready.
> 
> Guy refuses to drink beer until glass is changed. Accuses bartender of fraud for serving him the beer in the first place and claims the beer is not even beer, but piss.
> 
> Meanwhile, guy at the other end of the bar is drinking his beer in his regular glass and is much happier.



Your metaphors need more work....


----------



## AndyP

JEPA said:


> I have a newbie question: If I wanted to start a new company and wanted to release a new product, should I announce it and give release date before it’s fully completely developed or should I first wait till I am satisfied with the end product ready for sales and THEN announce its release date?
> Thank you in advance!


Newbie Answer:
Depends on how confident you were at the time of the decision to make it public regarding the maturity of the product.

From my own experience I know that sometimes bugs are found in the final testing phase before a planned and communicated release.

Quality assurance is almost as time-consuming as development. There are different OS systems in different versions, a dozen DAWs, etc. OS manufacturers release new system updates during the development and testing phase and they can really mess things up.
Interfaces to other products, new technologies that you have to learn or understand first ...

Software development is a tough business. End users are the victims who have to use immature software. For example, when I look at EW's competitors who have developed their own software (i.e. non-Kontakt), they have a much higher overhead than developers on a Kontakt basis.

I know only one vendor that manages to release its software with a very high level of maturity, and that is VSL. EW seems to take much longer to do this compared to others. Why that is, no idea.

So when is the right time to announce a release? When I look at >80% of the software products that come to market, sometimes I think never. 

The market gives a certain pressure, and in order not to fall behind, sometimes it is calculated a bit too optimistically. 

That something new had to come after Play was clear. Spitfire, VSL, and OT are all moving forward briskly. 

So when would I announce a release? When I am convinced that my product works with benefit, which does not exclude further bugfixing. But the essential features and stability have to be there. The product must be usable.


----------



## Petrucci

I was waiting for Opus in November but it didn't come out so I spent my savings (and more) on VSL BBO Bundle and I'm very happy with it. When Opus comes out and if the reviews are good and the price is reasonable I will buy it if I have any money for it. EWHO is an awesome product so I expect Opus to be even better altogether. The only negative moment in this story for me is really the lack of communication from EW side - they could've explained the true dates etc. But sometimes you have to wait for good things)


----------



## AceAudioHQ

AndyP said:


> EW seems to take much longer to do this compared to others. Why that is, no idea.



well, as a former software dev I know you should have stopped adding features months ago and they’re still doing that. Feature creep. Their process is broken.


----------



## AndyP

AceAudioHQ said:


> well, as a former software dev I know you should have stopped adding features months ago and they’re still doing that. Feature creep. Their process is broken.


Nick's statement a few posts ago seems to indicate this. That would be a pity if the most important basics already work stably. Further features can always be released afterwards.
The OPUS Player without the Orchestrator would be a big step forward. The additional samples could also be released separately. At least in my theory.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

AndyP said:


> Nick's statement a few posts ago seems to indicate this.


Yes and they said on Facebook: ”We're close to release! There's additional new features and content we are adding that we think everyone will be very excited about. In the meantime, stay tuned for the imminent release of the official trailer, walkthroughs, and more exclusive sneak peaks.” just a few days ago.


----------



## Quantum Leap

BasariStudios said:


> In their own words it is except another Set of 18 Violins i think.
> Tech support told me that. The content is all the same except extra Violins.


Woah Nellie!! How can post so many times in a thread complaining about lack of communication when you didn’t even bother to read the info we released or watch the video? Both impart info you missed. Dude that’s embarrassing for you. Opus has a ton of new samples. Violins, trombones, trumpets, flutes, bassoons, clarinets.


----------



## doctoremmet

Quantum Leap said:


> Dude that’s embarrassing for you.


Customer shaming is a thing now?


----------



## Kevinside

Sure the delay after the delay.... is not nice...but for me ok now, cause there is nothing, we can do about the new delay of Opus...
My main complaint is the way of communication...
I am sure, EW knew, that the 21 Jan release was not possible...
But they stayed silent;Maybe they wanted to keep the hype till Namm...

I can understand, that people are disappointed...


----------



## Quantum Leap

Daniel James said:


> I forgot how sensitive you guys are 😂
> 
> Perhaps you should roll the forum up nice and tight then shove it up your ass...as you guys so eloquently put it to a disgruntled customer to do with one of your libraries once upon a time.
> 
> People are talking about the libraries, when you start making things look like personal attacks, battle lines get drawn. Rise above it, you clearly want people to buy your libraries, its not personal, so be professional or just let it go.
> 
> And been as though you ban any dissenting voice from your own forums I imagine stepping out of your safe space to visit VI does feel a little uncomfortable. Hearing actual opinions and all that. We still love you, but come on, be better than this.
> 
> -DJ


Hugs and kisses. Good to hear from you. Been a while.


----------



## Wlad

Quantum Leap said:


> We didn’t do any of the things you claimed. Where did you get that stuff from? Luring into as sales deal??


Sorry Nick, but how does it sound...


----------



## Frederick

For me personally, Nick has won me over with the 6 months 6 days a week without a pause comment and that he gave an estimate when it will be released: Probably first quarter. He is still going to make a video despite some people going too far with their criticism IMO. I'd rather see that video than reading more complaints about the lack of communication earlier. I'm hoping for a better relation between EW and the forum.


----------



## Quantum Leap

Wlad said:


> Completely agree with you, but we are the ones that care the most about what libraries we have at our disposal. Whether it is for their workflow, sound, how inspiring they are to us, or some other reasons. They are our tools and we build our businesses around them... some of us at least.
> 
> Imagine EW schedules the orchestra for the recording session of its new OPUS library. Chairs and mics are in their positions, recording engineers at the mixing desk, and the orchestra just doesn't show up, and without any notice or explanation. Then Nick Phoenix starts bashing the orchestra on forums on how unprofessional they are. A few days later conductor shows up on the forum and says to Nick... "What's all the fuss about?... we will come and record some time in the Q1 of 2021".


It’s a bit Twilight Zone here. No one ever said that Opus was going to be released on that day as far as I know. Correct me if I’m wrong. Did EW print that OPUS was being released at NAMM?


----------



## Quantum Leap

Frederick said:


> For me personally, Nick has won me over with the 6 months 6 days a week without a pause comment and that he gave an estimate when it will be released: Probably first quarter. He is still going to make a video despite some people going too far with their criticism IMO. I'd rather see that video, then reading more complaints about the lack of communication earlier. I'm hoping for a better relation between EW and the forum.


I think the only real let down so far has been that we haven’t shown the sounds and software yet. That should have happened during NAMM. Sorry for that.


----------



## Wlad

Quantum Leap said:


> It’s a bit Twilight Zone here. No one ever said that Opus was going to be released on that day as far as I know. Correct me if I’m wrong. Did EW print that OPUS was being released at NAMM?


This sounds like it is coming on January 21


----------



## Quantum Leap

I just read that “lock in a special price” bit that you posted from EW. Like I said I don’t have any part in all that stuff. I guess I can understand that that could rub you the wrong way. I’m hoping we won’t disappoint. And yes the flyer seems to contradict the official blurb which said it was being premiered.


----------



## AceAudioHQ




----------



## Tremendouz

At this point it would make sense to just ignore any release dates and use your current libraries if you have some projects planned. Quite literally every book, every sample library and every videogame that I've been excited about in the recent years have been delayed. Every single one.


----------



## Evans

And this is why you don't make fun of users for missing details or having wrong information.

Well, one reason.


----------



## Kevinside

@Quantum Leap in the case of the release date, you are wrong...
First it was 21 Jan, then the text was changed to shortly after the Namm Preview.


----------



## FireGS

Quantum Leap said:


> Like I said I don’t have any part in all that stuff.


Maybe you should, if you're the only one from the company actually talking to customers here?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Wlad

Quantum Leap said:


> I just read that “lock in a special price” bit that you posted from EW. Like I said I don’t have any part in all that stuff. I guess I can understand that that could rub you the wrong way. I’m hoping we won’t disappoint. And yes the flyer seems to contradict the official blurb which said it was being premiered.


Nick, we all know you personally are not to blame. Most, if not all people here (including me) have a lot of respect for you and the work you've done. An official announcement from EW on postponement and apology for a lack of communication would fix most of the things regarding this issue.


----------



## Grilled Cheese

This thread reached the “dumpster fire” stage pages ago and is just a smouldering mess. I’m out.


----------



## cqd

Ye're starting to come across as whiny children lads..


----------



## Quantum Leap

Quantum Leap said:


> It’s a bit Twilight Zone here. No one ever said that Opus was going to be released on that day as far as I know. Correct me if I’m wrong. Did EW print that OPUS was being released at NAMM?





Crossroads said:


> Yeah, you have now, but you have to be in the know. No clear stance on this. Nothing on their website, no apology, nothing. So clearly they don't like people taking up on that.
> 
> You do realize they are now legally forced to comply and they only comply because of the fact that they could get sued for false advertising or not?
> 
> This is not good will. They have to. They are willing to skirt the edges of legality until they are called back. I know American corporate business ethics. And I hate them to my bones. They're not figuring out price, they are figuring out the legal consequences of this. This is propably what most of those employees were busy with 6 days a week.
> 
> Oh, and we were talking about professionalism? Read your very last sentence mate?
> 
> Ps. I care very much about a product I was lured into getting a year's subscription for without ability to cancel or pause until now. I had no knowledge about that. Propably because there was no way to do it until it became legally interesting. Always trying to find those edges of those laws eh?
> 
> They're not innocent. They propably pay more for lawyers than making their products. Like many US companies. Apparently it's to be expected these days.
> 
> For clearance to others: yes I am fucking tired of the US's idea of capitalism and I truly hope it will die in a big fat fucking fire so the world can move on to better times. For me, US capitalism is about constantly skirting the edges of what is allowed and constantly moving the line to where it can't budge no more. This, what EW were doing, is a clear example of this. And in light of that, Nick's reaction was fucking unprofessional and making people feel like imbeciles. We're not imbeciles Nick. We don't hate you. But you are acting like a moron. Willingly, because you know you are much smarter than that. Otherwise you would've never gotten this far in your career. So don't play the innocent fool. Please.
> 
> Yes, I'm harsh. Yes, I'm personal. Someone had to be. @Quantum Leap I hope you have the balls to actually react to the criticism the way you should. Otherwise, lose respect for all I care. Do business, do false business, get involved into false business, feel the consequence. You showed your face willingly in that video, your name is willingly on the advertising, so you too are willingly responsible. Now act like it. And stop playing an innocent fool. If you are not part of this, then detach yourself. Or explain. You owe it to those lured into a parasitic advertising scheme that you may or may not have been part of. But your name is plastered all across it. So please, if you feel obliged... take center stage. And show us the passion behind this thing... because for now, the only passion I feel is the passion for screwing people over willingly. If there's any real passion behind this, please let me know. Because corporate passion seems to be taking center stage here, not personal passion.


I stay out of the business side. So I was not aware of any deals offers or promises. I literally disconnected from all of that about 15 years ago because like I said EW pioneered the low price orchestra. I never agreed with it. So from my perspective the stuff is all too cheap. It never made sense to me to sell something that cheap that could sustain a composer for years or decades. It leads to the death of an industry. Especially when we killed our selves making it just to have it blown out. But I suppose Doug was into something because EWQLSO was and is the best selling orchestra ever released. So to me, these complaints seem over the top about some typical marketing crap. BUT I do now recognize that there is a valid complaint.


----------



## Crossroads

Quantum Leap said:


> I stay out of the business side. So I was not aware of any deals offers or promises. I literally disconnected from all of that about 15 years ago because like I said EW pioneered the low price orchestra. I never agreed with it. So from my perspective the stuff is all too cheap. It never made sense to me to sell something that cheap that could sustain a composer for years or decades. It leads to the death of an industry. Especially when we killed our selves making it just to have it blown out. But I suppose Doug was into something because EWQLSO was and is the best selling orchestra ever released. So to me, these complaints seem over the top about some typical marketing crap. BUT I do now recognize that there is a valid complaint.


There. Now you have my respect back. Thank you.

And because I don't want to be the biggest asshole in this universe, a sincere apology for the harsh tone. I'm a passionate person. Sometimes a bit too passionate.

A bit of advice: perhaps EW should really have their own spokesperson up here so you don't have to take the brunt of this. Someone with a direct connection to marketing. I think it would be very, very wise for both you and EW.


----------



## Ivan Duch

Quantum Leap said:


> I stay out of the business side. So I was not aware of any deals offers or promises. I literally disconnected from all of that about 15 years ago because like I said EW pioneered the low price orchestra. I never agreed with it. So from my perspective the stuff is all too cheap. It never made sense to me to sell something that cheap that could sustain a composer for years or decades. It leads to the death of an industry. Especially when we killed our selves making it just to have it blown out. But I suppose Doug was into something because EWQLSO was and is the best selling orchestra ever released. So to me, these complaints seem over the top about some typical marketing crap. BUT I do now recognize that there is a valid complaint.


Indeed! I think that's all there is to complain about: A marketing / sales problem. And it's great to know you can see the issue. 

That said, it's also good to know your support seems to be dealing with the issue by refunding the people who paid in advance based on what EW's marketing has been publishing.


----------



## Quantum Leap

FireGS said:


> Maybe you should, if you're the only one from the company actually talking to customers here?
> 
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


EW is afraid to come here. Lol. I am too really. It always ends badly. Not sure how I ended up here this time. We are the Fawlty Towers of customer service.


----------



## doctoremmet

Quantum Leap said:


> It always ends badly.


Which begs a lot of questions really. Because there are examples of other developers interacting freely with their (prospective) customers, and I might add, succesfully. I mean this in the most positive way imaginable. But also to make a point that the answer likely is not: ah well, the usual acidic VI-C crowd...


----------



## AndyP

EW is not the first and not the last developer to release a product with delays.
I have a lot of respect for all those who make libraries and for those who use them.

Not to mention that there were quite a few comments in the forum (in other threads) that some developers should have tested their product better before the release (I count myself among them)! 

EW marketing should still leave a note on the homepage that the date noted there is not the release date, but that this will be announced in time.

Thanks to Nick for the explanations! To climb voluntarily into a predator cage with hungry wolves requires good nerves.

Oh yes, I also like to offer myself as a beta tester ...


----------



## Collywobbles

doctoremmet said:


> Which begs a lot of questions really. Because there are examples of other developers interacting freely with their (prospective) customers, and I might add, succesfully. I mean this in the most positive way imaginable. But also to make a point that the answer likely is not: ah well, the usual acidic VI-C crowd...


Seeing as EW has been around since the dawn of time, they've probably built up quite a large customer base, and with that there will definitely be a fair number of disgruntled ones. Other large companies that interact here certainly have their own popcorn-worthy threads as well. Just saying it's probably unfair to compare them to smaller companies like CS or AI in that regard.

They also have a subscription service which is bound to lead to controversy as well, so if I was a customer service rep for them I'd probably be scared too.


----------



## AndyP

Collywobbles said:


> They also have a subscription service which is bound to lead to controversy as well, so if I was a customer service rep for them I'd probably be scared too.


Even I am sometimes scared of ourselves ...


----------



## Eptesicus

I think some of the vitriol being levied at EW here is a little over the top.

There are some valid points of criticism - A bit more transparency/communication on the release date/delay would have been good.

Ultimately though, all that has happened is that it is delayed...which is pretty much par for the course for most releases these days. They haven't taken your money on a pre order and then delayed it for months which _would_ be bad.

The only people who have some validity in feeling burnt about this are those that signed up to a composer cloud subscription when the release date was advertised as the 21st January. However, EW are apparently refunding/pausing subscriptions for those affected which is what should be done.

For everyone else, the library has been delayed, but you haven't parted with any money for it and libraries get delayed all the time.

(Quite frankly, i don't know why any developer sets an exact date (or even month) unless they know with 100% certainty that they will successfully have it all ready by that date. Otherwise, just say "coming soon")

This is nothing compared to what some developers have done. Take Synchron Strings for example-

-Was supposed to be released November 2017 and they took preorders/everyone's money.

-Got delayed until end of December...However through complete thoughtlessness in their discount/sales department, this meant that December's voucher offer resulted in people who pre-ordered Synchron Strings AFTER those that ordered it earlier, ended up getting it almost 100 euro cheaper! So the "early birds" did not catch the worm....

-Astonishingly, they didnt seem to think this was a problem and i then had a bit of a battle getting a refund (on a product not even released) so that i could order it again using the better offer. They tried to offer me something else which was nowhere near as good and would just mean i had to spend MORE money with them at first. I did manage to get this resolved with persistence though

- The library was finally "released" (*cough*) at the end of December....well a bit of it. On the normal VI player it took till March for it all to come out. Then it took a total of *6 months since release (till June 2018) *for the full product on the synchron player to get released.

- The library was a disappointment, in spite of it being marketed as the next best thing in string sampling. However continued half promises/insinuations/hopes that it would be made better/sound better when all released and when using the actual Synchron player meant that you couldn't use their refund policy properly (well you could, but then you could never be sure if what you had was the final product....as for months you had only half a product running on the old player).

-When it finally was all released on the Synchron player and was still a disappointment (not just my opinion, but pretty much universally regarded as a disappointment) i politely asked if i could swap it for another library of the same value (that way they still keep the money, they can remove the SS license and instead replace it with something else of similar value). i thought this was a reasonable compromise- given everything that happened. No dice.

-Now for the most inexplicable part - when discussing this in the Sychron Strings Pro thread, one of their reps went to the trouble to dig up this past correspondence i had with them and lied/tried to completely misrepresent what happened(!).


Now THAT is a complete and utter 101 on how NOT to release a sample library and how not to treat customers. It is probably one of the most disappointing and frustrating purchases/customer service experiences i have ever had (and that isnt hyperbole). The VSL special edition was the first library i ever owned and i loved it. Now i will never buy another VSL product again, and would strongly advise anyone i meet to not buy from them.



So, what East West have done here sort of pales in comparison (especially considering they are supposedly happy to refund or pause CC subscriptions because of the delay).


----------



## Crossroads

AndyP said:


> Even I am sometimes scared of ourselves ...


It's easy. Less bullshit, less complaining...


----------



## FireGS

Quantum Leap said:


> EW is afraid to come here. Lol. I am too really. It always ends badly. Not sure how I ended up here this time. We are the Fawlty Towers of customer service.


Not to worry! We have meat here! WE HAVE MEAT HERE IN ZE BUILDING!


----------



## Crossroads

Quantum Leap said:


> EW is afraid to come here. Lol. I am too really. It always ends badly. Not sure how I ended up here this time. We are the Fawlty Towers of customer service.


I'm clearly not scared. Hire me


----------



## KallumS

Some of you don’t play video games and it shows. Cyberpunk 2077, LA Noire, Diablo 3, etc...


----------



## Evans

doctoremmet said:


> Which begs a lot of questions really. Because there are examples of other developers interacting freely with their (prospective) customers, and I might add, succesfully. I mean this in the most positive way imaginable. But also to make a point that the answer likely is not: ah well, the usual acidic VI-C crowd...


We need an Alignment System-like chart for VI developers. 

"Ah, yes, Company X... they won't compromise on their vision for brass, but they're not nasty about it. Got it."


----------



## doctoremmet

Eptesicus said:


> I think some of the vitriol being levied at EW here is a little over the top.
> 
> There are some valid points of criticism - A bit more transparency/communication on the release date/delay would have been good.
> 
> Ultimately though, all that has happened is that it is delayed...which is pretty much par for the course for most releases these days. They haven't taken your money on a pre order and then delayed it for months which _would_ be bad.
> 
> The only people who have some validity in feeling burnt about this are those that signed up to a composer cloud subscription when the release date was advertised as the 21st January. However, EW are apparently refunding/pausing subscriptions for those affected which is what should be done.
> 
> For everyone else, the library has been delayed, but you haven't parted with any money for it and libraries get delayed all the time.
> 
> (Quite frankly, i don't know why any developer sets an exact date (or even month) unless they know with 100% certainty that they will successfully have it all ready by that date. Otherwise, just say "coming soon")
> 
> This is nothing compared to what some developers have done. Take Synchron Strings for example-
> 
> -Was supposed to be released November 2017 and they took preorders/everyone's money.
> 
> -Got delayed until end of December...However through complete thoughtlessness in their discount/sales department, this meant that December's voucher offer resulted in people who pre-ordered Synchron Strings AFTER those that ordered it earlier, ended up getting it almost 100 euro cheaper! So the "early birds" did not catch the worm....
> 
> -Astonishingly, they didnt seem to think this was a problem and i then had a bit of a battle getting a refund (on a product not even released) so that i could order it again using the better offer. They tried to offer me something else which was nowhere near as good and would just mean i had to spend MORE money with them at first. I did manage to get this resolved with persistence though
> 
> - The library was finally "released" (*cough*) at the end of December....well a bit of it. On the normal VI player it took till March for it all to come out. Then it took a total of *6 months since release (till June 2018) *for the full product on the synchron player to get released.
> 
> - The library was a disappointment, in spite of it being marketed as the next best thing in string sampling. However continued half promises/insinuations/hopes that it would be made better/sound better when all released and when using the actual Synchron player meant that you couldn't use their refund policy properly (well you could, but then you could never be sure if what you had was the final product....as for months you had only half a product running on the old player).
> 
> -When it finally was all released on the Synchron player and was still a disappointment (not just my opinion, but pretty much universally regarded as a disappointment) i politely asked if i could swap it for another library of the same value (that way they still keep the money, they can remove the SS license and instead replace it with something else of similar value). i thought this was a reasonable compromise- given everything that happened. No dice.
> 
> -Now for the most inexplicable part - when discussing this in the Sychron Strings Pro thread, one of their reps went to the trouble to dig up this past correspondence i had with them and lied/tried to completely misrepresent what happened(!).
> 
> 
> Now THAT is a complete and utter 101 on how NOT to release a sample library and how not to treat customers. It is probably one of the most disappointing and frustrating purchases/customer service experiences i have ever had (and that isnt hyperbole). The VSL special edition was the first library i ever owned and i loved it. Now i will never buy another VSL product again, and would strongly advise anyone i meet to not buy from them.
> 
> 
> 
> So, what East West have done here sort of pales in comparison (especially considering they are supposedly happy to refund or pause CC subscriptions because of the delay).


Ok. There is always ONE vendor who sucks even more, so let’s end this thread now haha. Gotcha.


----------



## Wlad

KallumS said:


> Some of you don’t play video games and it shows. Cyberpunk 2077, LA Noire, Diablo 3, etc...


Most of us do, but work is work and entertainment is entertainment. Two completely different industries. Not to mention that there is always an official announcement and apology from a gaming company on release date postponement at least 1 month before the set release date.


----------



## Collywobbles

Evans said:


> We need an Alignment System-like chart for VI developers.


Ah yes, my favourite role-playing game, Dungeons and Developers.


----------



## doctoremmet

Evans said:


> We need an Alignment System-like chart for VI developers.
> 
> "Ah, yes, Company X... they won't compromise on their vision for brass, but they're not nasty about it. Got it."


More like... Ay yes, Company X.... nice products... and what do you know... they do not over promise but when they accidentally do suck, they‘re upfront about it and have actual customer reps on here who don’t customer shame but inform us


----------



## doctoremmet

But I’m out of here, before I get banned again


----------



## Kevinside

And with video games, you know exactly, what the price is months before release


----------



## Eptesicus

doctoremmet said:


> Ok. There is always ONE vendor who sucks even more, so let’s end this thread now haha. Gotcha.



It isnt that. I just think a bit of perspective is needed on this particular release (hence my rather long anecdote about how it could be a lot worse )

This library release being delayed really isn't a big deal. Especially considering they didn't take any pre orders and they are refunding/pausing CC subscriptions.

I do agree with some of the other criticism though (ie silly upgarde pricing wherby its less expensive to buy a product from new than upgrade)- they really need to sort that out/tailor sales to discount the upgrade proportionally.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Quantum Leap said:


> EW is afraid to come here. Lol. I am too really. It always ends badly. Not sure how I ended up here this time. We are the Fawlty Towers of customer service.


Nick, the support at EW (for me, anyways) always been top notch over the years. And as of late, Michael has helped me with a few licensing issues via "chat"....he's always very helpful.

And thanks for understanding the frustration, it is definitely appreciated.


----------



## Wlad

Eptesicus said:


> It isnt that. I just think a bit of perspective is needed on this particular release (hence my rather long anecdote about how it could be a lot worse )
> 
> This library release being delayed really isn't a big deal. Especially considering they didn't take any pre orders and they are refunding/pausing CC subscriptions.
> 
> I do agree with some of the other criticism though (ie silly upgarde pricing wherby its less expensive to buy a product from new than upgrade)- they really need to sort that out/tailor sales to discount the upgrade proportionally.


If you read the comments carefully, you will realize that not even 1% of the users here criticize the delay itself. The problem is everything around the Opus release, misleading marketing campaign, and how the delay has been handled.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Michael Antrum said:


> Your metaphors need more work....


The nuance is clearly lost on you.


----------



## dcoscina

I'm reading a book for work called "Hug Your Haters" (for businesses who want to improve their customer service) and I was surprised that Online Forums account for the biggest draw in new customers- but the flip side is that they also affect lost opportunities when the business does not respond/responds poorly. 

It makes sense- unlike social media where 50% of people just want an audience for their vitriol (they actually do not want a resolution), forums are populated by very passionate and knowledgeable customers. I work in CS and Music retail Sales and I know it's hard to embrace the people who are hostile or rude, but the world we live in now is not dictated by the business with the lowest price or best features (since it's largely a level playing field)- it's the level of customer support that separates the really successful businesses from the others. interesting read..


----------



## Trax

Has anyone returned or exchanged an East West product. So I bought the Hollywood Harp from a third party, since it was missing from the percussions only to find out that it's not an Orchestral Harp so I'm missing ranges particularly the lower range.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Trax said:


> Has anyone returned or exchanged an East West product. So I bought the Hollywood Harp from a third party, since it was missing from the percussions only to find out that it's not an Orchestral Harp so I'm missing ranges particularly the lower range.


What do you mean by it's not an orchestral harp?


----------



## Eptesicus

Wlad said:


> If you read the comments carefully, you will realize that not even 1% of the users here criticize the delay itself. The problem is everything around the Opus release, misleading marketing campaign, and how the delay has been handled.



But it stems from the delay. I even highlighted in my post that i thought their communication on the delay could have been more transparent.

But with CC subscriptions being refunded/paused, no one has lost money/been stuck with a bad product etc.


----------



## Trax

Jeremy Spencer said:


> What do you mean by it's not an orchestral harp?


That should say a Concert or Pedal Harp.


----------



## sIR dORT

I'm going to say something extremely controversial:

I'm still very excited about the release and I'm fine to wait for it if it means it will be good quality.

Shocking, I know


----------



## Wlad

dcoscina said:


> I'm reading a book for work called "Hug Your Haters" (for businesses who want to improve their customer service) and I was surprised that Online Forums account for the biggest draw in new customers- but the flip side is that they also affect lost opportunities when the business does not respond/responds poorly.
> 
> It makes sense- unlike social media where 50% of people just want an audience for their vitriol (they actually do not want a resolution), forums are populated by very passionate and knowledgeable customers. I work in CS and Music retail Sales and I know it's hard to embrace the people who are hostile or rude, but the world we live in now is not dictated by the business with the lowest price or best features (since it's largely a level playing field)- it's the level of customer support that separates the really successful businesses from the others. interesting read..


I couldn't agree more.

A few days back I bought a product from VSL. It wasn't satisfactory for me, tho I tried my best to fit it in my template. I own some other VSL libraries and I'm more than satisfied with them. It's not that the product in question is bad, far from it, it just doesn't fit timber-wise with the libraries I already own. Then I remembered VSL has a no-hassle 14 days return policy... HOLY SH*T!

I contacted VSL support, told them that I would like to return the product... and can you imagine, they sent me an apology mail saying that they are sorry that their product hasn't met my expectations and that the refund will be put in motion right away. Man, what a company.


----------



## Wlad

sIR dORT said:


> I'm going to say something extremely controversial:
> 
> I'm still very excited about the release and I'm fine to wait for it if it means it will be good quality.
> 
> Shocking, I know


The only shocking thing is the fact that you are not reading comments...

We are all excited about the relase. Delay is not a problem. A misleading marketing campaign, and how the delay has been handled is the problem, for many.


----------



## BasariStudios

Ah screw this. In a middle of Pandemic. 2 people in my family died from it. And i worry about this? Screw it! If i have to pay another 1k for HOOPPUS so be it. I wholeheartedly apologize if i offended anyone in this topic and i mean it. I don't care about EW but i apologize to Nick @QuantumLeap . Even though he does'nt even know me He and 2 Steps from Hell are one of the reasons (besides Jean Michel Jarre) i am who i am today Musically. Sorry again.


----------



## szczaw

Yeah, right. You all want that orchestrator that can be used with only one or two fingers.


----------



## mcalis

szczaw said:


> Yeah, right. You all want that orchestrator that can be used with only one or two fingers.


Two seems a bit too much effort actually.


----------



## MDMullins

sIR dORT said:


> I'm going to say something extremely controversial:
> 
> I'm still very excited about the release and I'm fine to wait for it if it means it will be good quality.
> 
> Shocking, I know


Yes. I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with. I bought a yearly subscription diamond (Plus, I guess) and will wait patiently until the come out with it. I'm a Music Director with a decent sized parish. We bring in instruments for Easter and Christmas. I use these libraries most to hear the music as I'm arranging it. Don't even necessarily fully sequence the music. Just playing and listening as I'm entering in the score, testing out my ideas. As long as they get this out with enough lead-time to Easter, I'm happy. Otherwise, I might seek at least a partial refund, considering that a big factor in continuing to subscribe was Opus.


----------



## Markrs

BasariStudios said:


> Ah screw this. In a middle of Pandemic. 2 people in my family died from it. And i worry about this? Screw it! If i have to pay another 1k for HOOPPUS so be it. I wholeheartedly apologize if i offended anyone in this topic and i mean it. I don't care about EW but i apologize to Nick @QuantumLeap . Even though he does'nt even know me He and 2 Steps from Hell are one of the reasons (besides Jean Michel Jarre) i am who i am today Musically. Sorry again.


Sorry to hear about your loss 😔 these are tough times. We have to find love for one another, even though it can be hard. I know I am more cranky these days due to having to stay in so much. 

We all know in the grand scheme of things EW Opus is not that important, but I think are all in a way trying to help EW connect with us. Such a shame they feel afraid to come here. Still love ❤️ their products, the quality of what they produced all those years ago with HOD is amazing!


----------



## Jose7822

Looks like a couple of people are still missing the point, making comparisons with the gaming industry (which, btw, handles delays and pricing better than EW), etc. But, what matters most is that Nick has acknowledged the issues, and that that will hopefully get EW to think about how to fix and not repeat them in the future.

However, EW needs to stop being afraid of confronting their customers. WTF are they afraid of? If they have nothing to hide, then what’s the big deal about coming here to level with your customers? Is that the reason SoundsOnline doesn’t have a forum anymore (because EW was scared to confront their customers about legitimate issues)? Would an apology for the miscommunications kill them? I really don’t understand.


----------



## doctoremmet

Jose7822 said:


> Looks like a couple of people are still missing the point, making comparisons with the gaming industry (which, btw, handles delays and pricing better than EW), etc. But, what matters most is that Nick has acknowledged the issues, and that that will hopefully get EW to think about how to fix and not repeat them in the future.
> 
> However, EW needs to stop being afraid of confronting their customers. WTF are they afraid of? If they have nothing to hide, then what’s the big deal about coming here to level with your customers? Is that the reason SoundsOnline doesn’t have a forum anymore (because EW was scared to confront their customers about legitimate issues)? Would an apology for the miscommunications kill them? I really don’t understand.


This


----------



## darthdeus

Jose7822 said:


> Looks like a couple of people are still missing the point, making comparisons with the gaming industry (which, btw, handles delays and pricing better than EW), etc. But, what matters most is that Nick has acknowledged the issues, and that that will hopefully get EW to think about how to fix and not repeat them in the future.
> 
> However, EW needs to stop being afraid of confronting their customers. WTF are they afraid of? If they have nothing to hide, then what’s the big deal about coming here to level with your customers? Is that the reason SoundsOnline doesn’t have a forum anymore (because EW was scared to confront their customers about legitimate issues)? Would an apology for the miscommunications kill them? I really don’t understand.


Fundamentally imo the problem is that companies (people in leadership positions) often don't care about the actual problem. They only care about how it affects the company, which makes sense from their perspective, but can lead to some very strange behaviour when perceived from the outside.

An apology is an admission of guilt, something that can be traced to them and they could be blamed for making the wrong decision if things don't turn out well. Ignoring the problem on the other hand is common nowadays and there's no price for that. The bigger a company gets the less honest they are about everything, the less transparent they become, and just become more selfish.

Taking this a step further, imagine you have some stakeholders who really have no idea what's going on, they just own a big chunk of the company and care about their investment. If there are issues that only happen on these forums, they'll likely never reach them, and the company can pretend nothing is going on. If it reaches them, they can always say something like "it's just a few people complaining, we're handling it". But now consider the alternative, EW coming out with a big apology. Suddenly this becomes news on the internet, and it becomes "evidence of something went wrong", that can easily reach the stakeholders, who may start digging into "why did you mess this up in the first place?"

I'm not saying this is necessarily what's happening at EW, but having worked at some pretty big companies they're often extremely cautious about admitting to anything publicly, even if there is overwhelming evidence, just because them saying it is very different than someone else saying it.

One area where I found this to be particularly funny is guarantees in server hosting. If you sign a blood contract with an expensive provider like Amazon where they say you get 99.99% guarantee and 4 hours response time on support, you're not doing it to make sure you customers don't get more than 0.01% downtime, you really don't care about that. The reason you do it, is when your customers do get larger downtime, you can just say "look Amazon signed this contract and they guaranteed it, so it's not our fault, it's theirs" and your hands are clean. This happens with pharma/medical as well, where privacy is not "we care about making things private" but rather "if shit breaks and people start suing us we can point a finger at someone else who caused it".


----------



## Jose7822

darthdeus said:


> Fundamentally imo the problem is that companies (people in leadership positions) often don't care about the actual problem. They only care about how it affects the company, which makes sense from their perspective, but can lead to some very strange behaviour when perceived from the outside.
> 
> An apology is an admission of guilt, something that can be traced to them and they could be blamed for making the wrong decision if things don't turn out well. Ignoring the problem on the other hand is common nowadays and there's no price for that. The bigger a company gets the less honest they are about everything, the less transparent they become, and just become more selfish.
> 
> Taking this a step further, imagine you have some stakeholders who really have no idea what's going on, they just own a big chunk of the company and care about their investment. If there are issues that only happen on these forums, they'll likely never reach them, and the company can pretend nothing is going on. If it reaches them, they can always say something like "it's just a few people complaining, we're handling it". But now consider the alternative, EW coming out with a big apology. Suddenly this becomes news on the internet, and it becomes "evidence of something went wrong", that can easily reach the stakeholders, who may start digging into "why did you mess this up in the first place?"
> 
> I'm not saying this is necessarily what's happening at EW, but having worked at some pretty big companies they're often extremely cautious about admitting to anything publicly, even if there is overwhelming evidence, just because them saying it is very different than someone else saying it.
> 
> One area where I found this to be particularly funny is guarantees in server hosting. If you sign a blood contract with an expensive provider like Amazon where they say you get 99.99% guarantee and 4 hours response time on support, you're not doing it to make sure you customers don't get more than 0.01% downtime, you really don't care about that. The reason you do it, is when your customers do get larger downtime, you can just say "look Amazon signed this contract and they guaranteed it, so it's not our fault, it's theirs" and your hands are clean. This happens with pharma/medical as well, where privacy is not "we care about making things private" but rather "if shit breaks and people start suing us we can point a finger at someone else who caused it".



Sadly that’s the shitty mentality of corporate America. Just please your customers enough to get away with f€£ing them in the @ss. Like I said before, we should vote with our wallets and let companies like these know we are not taking their crap. They only listen when their finances are at stake.


----------



## darthdeus

Jose7822 said:


> Sadly that’s the shitty mentality of corporate America. Just please your customers enough to get away with f€£ing them in the @ss. Like I said before, we should vote with our wallets and let companies like these know we are not taking their crap. They only listen when their finances are at stake.


Yeah, unfortunately the competition is small enough that probably all of us in this thread will buy HOPUS the second it comes out. At least I will, despite not being a fan of PLAY.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

darthdeus said:


> Yeah, unfortunately the competition is small enough that probably all of us in this thread will buy HOPUS the second it comes out. At least I will, despite not being a fan of PLAY.


Not being a fan of PLAY is one of the reasons *to* get Opus, since it doesn't use PLAY.


----------



## JEPA

darthdeus said:


> Yeah, unfortunately the competition is small enough that probably all of us in this thread will buy HOPUS the second it comes out. At least I will, despite not being a fan of PLAY.


seems like a cycle of life, more a closed loop where things aren't going to change, ever... sad


----------



## darthdeus

Justin L. Franks said:


> Not being a fan of PLAY is one of the reasons *to* get Opus, since it doesn't use PLAY.


Yes, that's exactly why I'm excited about it  I really like the amount of stuff in EWHO, but I rarely use it just because the other Kontakt libraries are just way faster and more convenient to work with. Maybe “The Orchestrator” together with Opus will bridge the gap at being both incredibly easy and incredibly deep to work with. We can only hope ... refreshing the page 100 times per day hoping it gets released soon.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Quantum Leap said:


> It never made sense to me to sell something that cheap that could sustain a composer for years or decades.


...and for many of us, it *has* sustained (or in my case, given me the opportunity to start) a career, and I am very greatful for it.

Just wanted to say that.


----------



## Wlad

darthdeus said:


> Yeah, unfortunately the competition is small enough that probably all of us in this thread will buy HOPUS the second it comes out. At least I will, despite not being a fan of PLAY.


Sorry, I can't agree with you on this. Competition in the sample library world is bigger than ever.
VSL, Spitfire, Audiobro, Cinematic Studio, Orchestral Tools, Cinesamples, Chris Hein, 8DIO, Audio Imperia... Any one of these companies will provide you with libraries that are the match or, in many cases, better than the HO series, and for a good price. Even Two Steps From Hell has moved away from EW libraries (not entirely tho) a long time ago. Nick probably won't be able to confirm this because he is the face of the company.

What's left useful in HO are strings and brass, and for them alone one should get the HO Diamond when it is on sale. A good number of us here are waiting for the upgrade price to be revealed, and if it is not reasonable we will move to different libraries and use HO as it is.


----------



## darthdeus

Wlad said:


> Sorry, I can't agree with you on this. Competition in the sample library world is bigger than ever.
> VSL, Spitfire, Audiobro, Cinematic Studio, Orchestral Tools, Cinesamples, Chris Hein, 8DIO, Audio Imperia... Any one of these companies will provide you with libraries that are the match or, in most cases, better than the HO series, and for a good price. Even Two Steps From Hell has moved away from EW libraries (not entirely tho) a long time ago. Nick probably won't be able to confirm this because he is the face of the company.
> 
> What's left useful in HO are strings and brass, and for them alone one should get the HO Diamond when it is on sale. A good number of us here are waiting for the upgrade price to be revealed, and if it is not reasonable we will move to different libraries and use HO as it is.


Yes there are many other alternatives, but a lot of these are at completely different price points in terms of value. I’m not saying EWHO is the most amazing thing under the sun, but especially at a discount EWHO + Solo instruments has just so much content I’m not sure what else comes close in what you pay vs what you get.

Or if you only had to buy one library at the price of EWHO, what would you recommend that is comparable? I only have some Spitfire stuff (BBCSO & Abbey) and Audio Imperia (Nucleus & Jaeger). VSL, Orchestral Tools and Cinesamples seem extremely expensive in comparison, Cinematic Studio is cheaper in comparison, but still nowhere near EWHO.


----------



## Wlad

darthdeus said:


> Yes there are many other alternatives, but a lot of these are at completely different price points in terms of value. I’m not saying EWHO is the most amazing thing under the sun, but especially at a discount EWHO + Solo instruments has just so much content I’m not sure what else comes close in what you pay vs what you get.
> 
> Or if you only had to buy one library at the price of EWHO, what would you recommend that is comparable? I only have some Spitfire stuff (BBCSO & Abbey) and Audio Imperia (Nucleus & Jaeger). VSL, Orchestral Tools and Cinesamples seem extremely expensive in comparison, Cinematic Studio is cheaper in comparison, but still nowhere near EWHO.


I completely agree with you that the price on HO Diamond at $372 is unmatched, but it should be, it's 10 years old library and it shows... Not so much in sound as in usability. HO + Solo(Violin, Cello, and Harp) on the other hand at $586 is not a good deal. One could get BBCSO Pro for $599 on Black Friday. BBCSO has its weaknesses, but it is a new library and still updating, and more beginner-friendly. But I was talking about libraries for professional consumption (both of the above mentioned are), libraries that pay your bills. There are a lot of people here who paid for HO sections their full price a few years back. You would not go the cheapest route when something is that important to you as your work-tools.

This is a price comparison of some of the libraries and what you are able to get now for around $350 to $550 per section at full price. I didn't include prices when products are on sale cause every company manages deals differently... "Bundle Savings", "Loyalty Discount"...

Hollywood Strings Diamond $399
Modern Scoring Strings $549
Berlin Symphonic Strings $549
VSL Synchron Strings Pro $445
Chris Hein Ensemble Strings $399
Cinematic Studio Strings $399
Spitfire Studio Strings Pro $499
CineStrings CORE $499

Hollywood Brass Diamond $399
Modern Scoring Brass $399
Chris Hein Orchestral Brass Extended $399
Cinematic Studio Brass $399
Spitfire Studio Brass Pro $399
CineBrass CORE $399

Hollywood Woodwinds Diamond $399
VSL Synchron-ized Woodwinds $345
Chris Hein Winds Complete $399
Cinematic Studio Woodwinds $399
Spitfire Studio Woodwinds $399
CineWinds CORE $349

These are libraries at a reasonable price point, showing that competition is at its peak. So we do not have to stick with HOOPUS and buy it instantly no matter what. For under $1200, probably half of that on Black Friday, you are able to build or buy as a whole a fantastic orchestra to your taste.
If an upgrade to HOOPUS from HO Diamond is more than $399, of course I will go a different route and buy a whole new section that will replace the "weakest link" in my template, or I will wait for sales and buy BBCSO Pro for $599 or Spitfire Studio Orchestra Pro for $699.

Go with a company that respects you, your time, and your hard-earned money.


----------



## Jose7822

darthdeus said:


> Yes there are many other alternatives, but a lot of these are at completely different price points in terms of value. I’m not saying EWHO is the most amazing thing under the sun, but especially at a discount EWHO + Solo instruments has just so much content I’m not sure what else comes close in what you pay vs what you get.
> 
> Or if you only had to buy one library at the price of EWHO, what would you recommend that is comparable? I only have some Spitfire stuff (BBCSO & Abbey) and Audio Imperia (Nucleus & Jaeger). VSL, Orchestral Tools and Cinesamples seem extremely expensive in comparison, Cinematic Studio is cheaper in comparison, but still nowhere near EWHO.



Sure. But you’re comparing the prices of these EW libraries now, as opposed to when they originally came out. I believe both Hollywood Strings and Hollywood Brass Diamond were over $1,000 USD (each!) when they first launched. It would be interesting to see what OPUS will sell for once they finally announce the prices (both for the full product and for the upgrades). THEN we can make better comparisons with what’s currently available from the competition.


----------



## Kevinside

hmm... if i think about, what i paid for EWQLSO Platinum and then for the XP Expansion, when they came out...In an actual perspective... wasted money... But i have the boxes and all the DVDs and printed manuals...wow
But hey we all made bad decisions at last...


----------



## erikradbo




----------



## Tremendouz

darthdeus said:


> Yeah, unfortunately the competition is small enough that probably all of us in this thread will buy HOPUS the second it comes out. At least I will, despite not being a fan of PLAY.


Personally I will wait for other people to be the guinea pigs. If I'm investing more money on HO, the player and workflow need to be on par with other modern libraries (proper keyswitch patches with access to all the important articulations, proper RAM purge etc.)


----------



## José Herring

BasariStudios said:


> Ah screw this. In a middle of Pandemic. 2 people in my family died from it. And i worry about this? Screw it! If i have to pay another 1k for HOOPPUS so be it. I wholeheartedly apologize if i offended anyone in this topic and i mean it.



No one was offended. When one reads another's comments you never know what that person might be going through in the real world. I for one always keep that in mind.

I'm so sorry for the pain you've had to endure. You're not alone. I, and I probably speak for many of us here, value your contribution and if in any way coming here to vent, let off steam or just chat about your hopes and dreams as a composer helps in any way to ease the burden of the world out there, we're here and glad to be on the other end reading and responding.


----------



## Crowe

darthdeus said:


> Yeah, unfortunately the competition is small enough that probably all of us in this thread will buy HOPUS the second it comes out. At least I will, despite not being a fan of PLAY.


I will not, as buying stuff on launch is ridiculous. Also the developer has done nothing to warrant much in the way of trust concerning this application.

Absolutely nobody here *needs* this software. I'd be laughing my butt off at the collective obsession with new shiny stuff if it wasn't so damn horrifying.


----------



## BasariStudios

Shiirai said:


> Absolutely nobody here *needs* this software.


That is the biggest problem we face as Humans. Hoarding.
Well at least its not about Toilet Paper.


----------



## Bluemount Score

BasariStudios said:


> Well at least its not about Toilet Paper.


Not this time, at least


----------



## Laddy

HOS > Toilet paper 
Toilet paper > HOW


----------



## Trash Panda

Shiirai said:


> Absolutely nobody here *needs* this software.


----------



## darthdeus

Shiirai said:


> Absolutely nobody here *needs* this software. I'd be laughing my butt off at the collective obsession with new shiny stuff if it wasn't so damn horrifying.



The collectorship in the music production industry is real, indeed. Is it necessarily bad though? Some people collect stamps, others collect orchestral sample libraries. At least personally I find myself very inspired by just starting a new track with a different library than I did the previous track.


----------



## Crowe

Whatever. Amateur Beta-tester 4 life.

_Deleted my post because it's pretty pointless to argue about Gollumism._


----------



## Trash Panda

@Shiirai just doesn't have the same level of emotional investment because he got that amazing goof price on HWOD. ;D


----------



## Evans

Shiirai said:


> I also very much understand how using different libraries provides inspiration. Which you can easily get from libraries that have been out a bit.


I've absolutely had instances in which certain, specific note-to-note legato transitions or sustain attacks in some libraries got on my nerves after a year+ of use, despite it being _perfectly fine_ to fresh ears. 

It would be like eating only ham and cheese sandwiches for lunch every single day. It's okay to get brutally tired of it, even though it's sufficient to your "needs."


----------



## Crowe

Trash Panda said:


> @Shiirai just doesn't have the same level of emotional investment because he got that amazing goof price on HWOD. ;D


I honestly don't have that level of emotional investment in anything but my partner XD.

You're right though, I've so much stuff to work with already I just don't see the point.

@Evans Is that really the same though? I don't feel like I've only Ham and Cheese sandwiches. I feel like I can choose between menus upon menus of different flavours of food, from Asian to Eastern European to Mexicam to Italian to whatever I can possibly ever want.

But I really must and shall have that one type of fusion food from that one cook who doesn't want to tell me what his new course is going to cost, when it's available or even what's in it. But please do buy our previous meal because it's going to be better to go to the new meal from there. Oh wait, SYKE no it's not. Actually we can't tell you.

Seriously. The hell?


----------



## Trash Panda

Shiirai said:


> I honestly don't have that level of emotional investment in anything but my partner XD.


But...what about the preciousssssss???


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Evans said:


> It would be like eating only ham and cheese sandwiches for lunch every single day. It's okay to get brutally tired of it, even though it's sufficient to your "needs."


That’s why I’m on Composer Cloud. I get the all-can-eat 24/7 buffet


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Quantum Leap said:


> EW is afraid to come here. Lol. I am too really. It always ends badly. Not sure how I ended up here this time. We are the Fawlty Towers of customer service.


So who is Sybil?

And what member of the Team is Manuel...
Now you have my undivided British Attention!


----------



## Wlad

Jeremy Spencer said:


> That’s why I’m on Composer Cloud. I get the all-can-eat 24/7 buffet


That is like subscribing to a Chinese restaurant.


----------



## Tremendouz

Wlad said:


> That is like subscribing to Chinese restaurant.


I would totally do that (but not subscribe to CC)


----------



## cqd

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> So who is Sybil?
> 
> And what member of the Team is Manuel...
> Now you have my undivided British Attention!


??

Where's Polly?..


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

doctoremmet said:


> Ok. There is always ONE vendor who sucks even more, so let’s end this thread now haha. Gotcha.


How to ensure a thread NEVER ends...


----------



## AndyP

Depending on how long EW takes to release, this thread could even eclipse the Spitfire threads. It's time for a new record.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Wlad said:


> That is like subscribing to a Chinese restaurant.


Yes! And you even get a discount if you pre-pay with your credit card.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Yes! And you even get a discount if you pre-pay with your credit card.


I'll have the bat soup please... oops

I mean, wait let me take that back


----------



## Jose7822

AndyP said:


> Depending on how long EW takes to release, this thread could even eclipse the Spitfire threads. It's time for a new record.



Is this really not the worst thread ever? I thought given how EW has handled OPUS up to now, the amount of pages without a single mention of the cost, and the false release date, that this would surely be THE WORST sample library announcement in history. Is there really a worst announcement than this? Wow!!


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

Did they just remove the "Sale ends today" banner (after displaying it for approximately one week, lol) but the libraries are still discounted by 60%?
...wow.


----------



## Tremendouz

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Did they just remove the "Sale ends today" banner (after displaying it for approximately one week, lol) but the libraries are still discounted by 60%?
> ...wow.


*Sale banner ends today*


----------



## José Herring

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Did they just remove the "Sale ends today" banner (after displaying it for approximately one week, lol) but the libraries are still discounted by 60%?
> ...wow.


After all what are tomorrows but another "today" yet to happen.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Did they just remove the "Sale ends today" banner (after displaying it for approximately one week, lol) but the libraries are still discounted by 60%?
> ...wow.


Lol! I just saw the BIG banner that says CCX is $19.99 for limited time (still), and in my upgrade options, it's also still $19.99 as "Holiday Special Save 30%". Early Valentines Day maybe?


----------



## szczaw

They ought to turn the old content into a base package with the new engine, and sell new content as expansions. There would be no upgrade price and therefore no controversy, no further disappointment and hurt feelings


----------



## cundo92

I updated to the Diamond from Gold edition during "SALES" and it costed me $317 dollars. Now it cost without "SALES" $199. There is something that I am missing here?


----------



## Tremendouz

cundo92 said:


> I updated to the Diamond from Gold edition during "SALES" and it costed me $317 dollars. Now it cost without "SALES" $199. There is something that I am missing here?


What is costing $199? The full Diamond Orchestra hasn't been under $320 or so as far as I know (minus the recent pricing error at JRRShop)

edit: oh, just logged in and checked, Gold to Diamond upgrade for $199


----------



## sIR dORT

What the actual fudge. All the upgrades from gold to diamond for each individual lib of HWO is $49 now.

If I had to guess the reason behind this, I would say that this indicates that they're just about to release OPUS or it's a response to complaints about upgrade prices here on VI-C (I think this is more unlikely though). Either way, crazy


----------



## cqd

The upgrade sale should be starting soon enough too though..might go choirs diamond..


----------



## cqd

Yeah, the upgrade sale seems to have started..I've waited a year for this..


----------



## Ryan Fultz

sIR dORT said:


> What the actual fudge. All the upgrades from gold to diamond for each individual lib of HWO is $49 now.
> 
> If I had to guess the reason behind this, I would say that this indicates that they're just about to release OPUS or it's a response to complaints about upgrade prices here on VI-C (I think this is more unlikely though). Either way, crazy


One day it won't cost me $199 to upgrade my QLSO from gold to diamond, but not today it seems. Its ancient, its not anywhere near the workflow I prefer, but there are some gems that just deserve to stay in my template. 

One day I'll get those extra mics to make a couple more of those samples more flexible to mix and keep shinning. But its hard as hell to justify that purchase when there are so many options these days and especially since I've seen HO diamond for as low as ~$300 on sale.

For $100 I'd probably impulse buy it, but for now it will continue to sit mostly uninstalled.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Ryan Fultz said:


> One day it won't cost me $199 to upgrade my QLSO from gold to diamond, but not today it seems. Its ancient, its not anywhere near the workflow I prefer, but there are some gems that just deserve to stay in my template.
> 
> One day I'll get those extra mics to make a couple more of those samples more flexible to mix and keep shinning. But its hard as hell to justify that purchase when there are so many options these days and especially since I've seen HO diamond for as low as ~$300 on sale.
> 
> For $100 I'd probably impulse buy it, but for now it will continue to sit mostly uninstalled.


I hear you. Even if HO Diamond were a free upgrade from Gold, I wouldn’t use it. I don’t need the extra mic’s and I don’t feel like downloading another 700GB.


----------



## darthdeus

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I hear you. Even if HO Diamond were a free upgrade from Gold, I wouldn’t use it. I don’t need the extra mic’s and I don’t feel like downloading another 700GB.


One thing I really don't understand is why you don't get Gold automatically when you buy Diamond. I bought Diamond directly and the only option I have is to do a 800GB install or not install it at all, even if I would just want to use one mic position and save a ton of disk space.


----------



## Laddy

darthdeus said:


> One thing I really don't understand is why you don't get Gold automatically when you buy Diamond. I bought Diamond directly and the only option I have is to do a 800GB install or not install it at all, even if I would just want to use one mic position and save a ton of disk space.


Let´s hope that this will change with OPUS. Since you can choose which instruments you want to download, maybe you also can choose mics, like in OT SINE?


----------



## SupremeFist

Not sure there is a general upgrade sale, as Stormdrum 2 is $199 for full version or $415 for upgrade from SD1!


----------



## Tremendouz

darthdeus said:


> I bought Diamond directly and the only option I have is to do a 800GB install or not install it at all, even if I would just want to use one mic position and save a ton of disk space.


Correction: you have the 4 libraries as separate installations. For example I decided not to install the woodwinds. That said, hollywood strings is still 370GB so even if you're gonna delete the mic positions you want (yes, that can be done afterwards) you're gonna need quite a bit of drive space.


----------



## Trevor Meier

sIR dORT said:


> What the actual fudge. All the upgrades from gold to diamond for each individual lib of HWO is $49 now.
> 
> If I had to guess the reason behind this, I would say that this indicates that they're just about to release OPUS or it's a response to complaints about upgrade prices here on VI-C (I think this is more unlikely though). Either way, crazy


Well this is nice. I’m not planning to go OPUS unless it really wows me, but happy to upgrade my brass from Gold to Diamond for $49! Finally can match mixes with diamond strings (which I’ve had for ages... my first library back when it was around $800!)


----------



## Piotrek K.

Quick question, because upgrade price is crazy low now, but I have only 32 gigs of RAM - do I loose Gold license after updating to Diamond?


----------



## darthdeus

Tremendouz said:


> Correction: you have the 4 libraries as separate installations. For example I decided not to install the woodwinds. That said, hollywood strings is still 370GB so even if you're gonna delete the mic positions you want (yes, that can be done afterwards) you're gonna need quite a bit of drive space.


Oh I didn’t realize you could delete mic positions, are they separate folders you just delete? Won’t PLAY crash afterwards?


----------



## Tremendouz

darthdeus said:


> Oh I didn’t realize you could delete mic positions, are they separate folders you just delete? Won’t PLAY crash afterwards?


Yes, there are 5 mic position folders inside each of the "main" instrument folders, so for hollywood brass that means you have 11 folders to check (2 french horns, 4 french horns etc.).

I guess you could just use the search function within the entire samples folder, eg. "Md" for mid mic position but that will then show all the single samples with Md in their name so might take a while if you have a slower drive.

PLAY will not crash, it will just complain about missing samples if you try to load a mic position that you deleted.


----------



## Evans

Tremendouz said:


> Yes, there are 5 mic position folders inside each of the "main" instrument folders, so for hollywood brass that means you have 11 folders to check (2 french horns, 4 french horns etc.).
> 
> I guess you could just use the search function within the entire samples folder, eg. "Md" for mid mic position but that will then show all the single samples with Md in their name so might take a while if you have a slower drive.
> 
> PLAY will not crash, it will just complain about missing samples if you try to load a mic position that you deleted.


If I recall correctly, it will refuse to load the patch at all if you delete its _default_ mic position. Is that the case/still true?


----------



## Tremendouz

Evans said:


> If I recall correctly, it will refuse to load the patch at all if you delete its _default_ mic position. Is that the case/still true?


Oh, seems to be. So, make sure to keep the default mic position @darthdeus


----------



## Bluemount Score

Tremendouz said:


> Yes, there are 5 mic position folders inside each of the "main" instrument folders, so for hollywood brass that means you have 11 folders to check (2 french horns, 4 french horns etc.).
> 
> I guess you could just use the search function within the entire samples folder, eg. "Md" for mid mic position but that will then show all the single samples with Md in their name so might take a while if you have a slower drive.
> 
> PLAY will not crash, it will just complain about missing samples if you try to load a mic position that you deleted.


This is pretty useful, thank you. My SSD space might not handle HOOPUS otherwise


----------



## Evans

Tremendouz said:


> Oh, seems to be. So, make sure to keep the default mic position @darthdeus


Which is a a shame, because I think the default Woodwind mic is my least used!


----------



## Tremendouz

Evans said:


> Which is a a shame, because I think the default Woodwind mic is my least used!


Yeah. On the other hand I have CSW so I didn't bother installing HOW at all


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Piotrek K. said:


> Quick question, because upgrade price is crazy low now, but I have only 32 gigs of RAM - do I loose Gold license after updating to Diamond?


Yes. Another reason I’m not upgrading.


----------



## Evans

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Yes. Another reason I’m not upgrading.


Hold up a moment, I think this is only an issue for Composer Cloud upgrades, since it's more of a temporary ("for as long as you're paying") entitlement. If you have individual Gold licenses for EWHO Strings, Brass, Percussion, and/or Woodwinds, those _should _persist.

Can anyone who has gone through that confirm? That would be like if Spitfire removed your BBCSO Core license if you bought Pro, or Audio Imperia removing your Lite license if you bought Areia full. It doesn't make sense outside of the context of a subscription.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

I've bought EWQLSO Silver from Best Service and bought a Gold upgrade from soundsonline.com and I have both silver and gold license on my ilok


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

AceAudioHQ said:


> I've bought EWQLSO Silver from Best Service and bought a Gold upgrade from soundsonline.com and I have both silver and gold license on my ilok


That's probably because they're still the 16bit samples (Diamond is 24bit). It's entirely possible I'm blowing smoke up my a$$, but I seem to recall that once you upgrade to Diamond, you lose Gold.


----------



## Lazer42

I have upgraded my Composer Cloud to Composer Cloud Plus recently (i.e., added Diamond) and I can still use HO Gold. I DID lose the ability to use EWQLSO Gold, _even though _I have my own permanent license for EWQLSO on an ilok, and must use the Platinum samples. From what they have told me, should I drop the subscription and so lose the license to use Platinum my Gold will start working again. This has not happened with HO, though.


----------



## Tremendouz

Lazer42 said:


> I have upgraded my Composer Cloud to Composer Cloud Plus recently (i.e., added Diamond) and I can still use HO Gold. I DID lose the ability to use EWQLSO Gold, _even though _I have my own permanent license for EWQLSO on an ilok, and must use the Platinum samples. From what they have told me, should I drop the subscription and so lose the license to use Platinum my Gold will start working again. This has not happened with HO, though.


A person I know did the same and lost the access to Hollywood Gold and had to contact support to downgrade his subscription.

Seems very inconsistent either way and something EW should address before someone misses an important deadline due to losing access to the "lower tier" samples when *paying them more money*


----------



## Audio Birdi

Evans said:


> Hold up a moment, I think this is only an issue for Composer Cloud upgrades, since it's more of a temporary ("for as long as you're paying") entitlement. If you have individual Gold licenses for EWHO Strings, Brass, Percussion, and/or Woodwinds, those _should _persist.
> 
> Can anyone who has gone through that confirm? That would be like if Spitfire removed your BBCSO Core license if you bought Pro, or Audio Imperia removing your Lite license if you bought Areia full. It doesn't make sense outside of the context of a subscription.


I have both Diamond HWO licenses as well as CCX Subscription which uses Gold / Gold X samples. Both work fine in tandem with one another without issues.


----------



## Phil H

Anyone else think this thread is going to get to it's one year anniversary before Opus is released?


----------



## Ashermusic

Phil H said:


> Anyone else think this thread is going to get to it's one year anniversary before Opus is released?


No.


----------



## jaketanner

They're already 2 days late right? Just checking in here to see what I'm missing...LOL


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

jaketanner said:


> They're already 2 days late right? Just checking in here to see what I'm missing...LOL


A week now, but who’s counting LOL


----------



## jaketanner

Jeremy Spencer said:


> A week now, but who’s counting LOL


Damn...LOL I thought it was the 27th, but maybe the 21st? LOL. Oh well.


----------



## BasariStudios

These guys must be on drugs. Brass Gold to Diamond was 184$
last week and Full Diamond was 159$. Now Gold to Diamond is 49$.
WTF is happening?


----------



## darthdeus

BasariStudios said:


> These guys must be on drugs. Brass Gold to Diamond was 184$
> last week and Full Diamond was 159$. Now Gold to Diamond is 49$.
> WTF is happening?


I wonder if these things sometimes actually happen by accident and what then happens to the people who buy it at the lower price before it goes back up.


----------



## BasariStudios

darthdeus said:


> I wonder if these things sometimes actually happen by accident and what then happens to the people who buy it at the lower price before it goes back up.


No matter how good their products are (which are not) these guys need dropping,
it looks like a bunch of children gathered and opened up a business hurting people.


----------



## Phoenix90

Jeremy Spencer said:


> That's probably because they're still the 16bit samples (Diamond is 24bit). It's entirely possible I'm blowing smoke up my a$$, but I seem to recall that once you upgrade to Diamond, you lose Gold.


I upgraded from Gold (bought elsewhere) to Diamond and I have both sets of licenses.
Before upgrading I contacted the support and they told me I would have retained the Gold licenses.


----------



## SupremeFist

BasariStudios said:


> No matter how good their products are (which are not) these guys need dropping,
> it looks like a bunch of children gathered and opened up a business hurting people.


This doesn't make any sense. 1) The products are incredible, in some ways still the best on the market; 2) They are not hurting anyone by offering their products for sale, even if sometimes at weird prices.


----------



## BasariStudios

SupremeFist said:


> This doesn't make any sense. 1) The products are incredible, in some ways still the best on the market; 2) They are not hurting anyone by offering their products for sale, even if sometimes at weird prices.


Yeah...tell me more about it.


----------



## cqd

Their one upgrade sale of the year has started..

Try not to get too wound up about it..


----------



## SupremeFist

BasariStudios said:


> Yeah...tell me more about it.


How about... no?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

BasariStudios said:


> No matter how good their products are (which are not) these guys need dropping,
> it looks like a bunch of children gathered and opened up a business hurting people.


Well, no matter which way you slice it, HWO is a great VI...even at full price.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Phoenix90 said:


> I upgraded from Gold (bought elsewhere) to Diamond and I have both sets of licenses.
> Before upgrading I contacted the support and they told me I would have retained the Gold licenses.


Just got the same information from ew support


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Piotrek K. said:


> Quick question, because upgrade price is crazy low now, but I have only 32 gigs of RAM - do I loose Gold license after updating to Diamond?


I have confirmed with EW that you indeed keep both licenses. For some reason, I thought you couldn't.


----------



## EwigWanderer

Jeremy Spencer said:


> That's probably because they're still the 16bit samples (Diamond is 24bit). It's entirely possible I'm blowing smoke up my a$$, but I seem to recall that once you upgrade to Diamond, you lose Gold.


No. I bought gold first and upgraded to diamond. Still have gold licenses.


----------



## aria250m

Can confirm with others that I kept my gold license when upgraded to diamond.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

EwigWanderer said:


> No. I bought gold first and upgraded to diamond. Still have gold licenses.


Well, I'll be damned. I couldn't resist....I bought $49 upgrade to HS Diamond.


----------



## topijokinen

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Well, I'll be damned. I couldn't resist....I bought $49 upgrade to HS Diamond.


Good luck with downloading the package. I had to buy new SSD for that alone, cause it takes double the space in installing phase not to mention the faster internet connection that I also purchased just for this. Otherwise it would have taken full month to download 😀


----------



## José Herring

topijokinen said:


> Good luck with downloading the package. I had to buy new SSD for that alone, cause it takes double the space in installing phase not to mention the faster internet connection that I also purchased just for this. Otherwise it would have taken full month to download 😀


Yeah, I did the same. That upgrade was pricey but worth it.


----------



## tabulius

So when does the Play Pro come out?


----------



## José Herring

tabulius said:


> So when does the Play Pro come out?


Soon.


----------



## Tremendouz

topijokinen said:


> not to mention the faster internet connection that I also purchased just for this.


I hope you didn't pay too much for that since at least to me, the download speed was hovering between 5 and 10 MB/s for the most part. With my connection it should've been constant 12 MB/s so it might take you a full day to download it no matter how fast net you have.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

topijokinen said:


> Good luck with downloading the package. I had to buy new SSD for that alone, cause it takes double the space in installing phase not to mention the faster internet connection that I also purchased just for this. Otherwise it would have taken full month to download 😀


I have a brand new 1TB ready! The download speed is not an issue in my area, I’m fortunate.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

$49 upgrades for Gold to Diamond now? Looks like their push just a short time ago to upgrade to Diamond then as the cheapest path to a future upgrade to the complete/highest level of Opus wasn't actually the case.


----------



## darthdeus

Tremendouz said:


> I hope you didn't pay too much for that since at least to me, the download speed was hovering between 5 and 10 MB/s for the most part. With my connection it should've been constant 12 MB/s so it might take you a full day to download it no matter how fast net you have.


Yeah same happened for me, I was hoping for a swift download with my 1Gbit connection ... but it took quite a while.


----------



## Jackdaw

Phoenix90 said:


> I upgraded from Gold (bought elsewhere) to Diamond and I have both sets of licenses.
> Before upgrading I contacted the support and they told me I would have retained the Gold licenses.



I also wanted to verify this from EW support and just got the answer:

You'll still have the Gold license and will still be able to use those as long as you still have the libraries downloaded somewhere - the Diamond licenses would just be put in your account and you could activate/download those at your leisure/as you get more space available.


----------



## John R Wilson

Has their been any update about what is happening about the OPUS update? Thought it was suppose to be coming out a week ago wasn't it?


----------



## cqd

John R Wilson said:


> Has their been any update about what is happening about the OPUS update? Thought it was suppose to be coming out a week ago wasn't it?


Haha..consider yourself lucky you missed out on the complaining when it didn't..
Out soon apparently..Well, by the end of march..

I just update Hollywood choirs to diamond..meh..

I really hope they give that the once over too if they're putting it into the new player..


----------



## Wlad

John R Wilson said:


> Has their been any update about what is happening about the OPUS update? Thought it was suppose to be coming out a week ago wasn't it?


Unfortunately is was April fools' in January. They all of a sudden realized they need to implement new things into the OPUS.


----------



## John R Wilson

cqd said:


> Haha..consider yourself lucky you missed out on the complaining when it didn't..
> Out soon apparently..Well, by the end of march..
> 
> I just update Hollywood choirs to diamond..meh..
> 
> I really hope they give that the once over too if they're putting it into the new player..


Yeah I probably am!! Last time I checked it was coming Jan 21st  Has their not been any new info about this update since then?


----------



## Wlad

John R Wilson said:


> Yeah I probably am!! Last time I checked it was coming Jan 21st  Has their not been any new info about this update since then?


You better read the last 30 pages then... don't worry it's a real page-turner.


----------



## John R Wilson

Wlad said:


> You better read the last 30 pages then... don't worry it's a real page-turner.


Yeah I need to catch up! Have they said anything since the new 10 min video? I was assuming that it might have been released by now considering its been more than half a year since the announcement.


----------



## Wlad

John R Wilson said:


> Yeah I need to catch up! Have they said anything since the new 10 min video? I was assuming that it might have been released by now considering its been more than half a year since the announcement.


Nick Phoenix - the man himself was here. Some swear words have been used, some accusations have been made... All in all, he realized he should ditch EW, create his own sample library company and continue with the business... or at least that's my interpretation.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Wlad said:


> Nick Pheonix - the man himself was here. Some swear words have been used, some accusations have been made... All in all, he realized he should ditch EW, create his own sample library company and continue with the business... or at least that's my interpretation.


Oooh... I saw you guys calling him Nick. Only just now I am realizing it was Mr. Phoenix all the time, had no clue


----------



## NoamL

BasariStudios said:


> These guys must be on drugs. Brass Gold to Diamond was 184$
> last week and Full Diamond was 159$. Now Gold to Diamond is 49$.
> WTF is happening?


May be they have a target for _"Use HOOPUS marketing to convert X Hollywood Orchestra Gold owners to Hollywood Orchestra Diamond buyers before HOOPUS release"_ and that target hasn't been met. Just cynical speculation.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Wlad said:


> Nick Phoenix - the man himself was here. Some swear words have been used, some accusations have been made... All in all, he realized he should ditch EW, create his own sample library company and continue with the business... or at least that's my interpretation.


His new library is going to be called SOOPUS


----------



## szczaw

Bovine Opus (cows are slow)


----------



## Evans

Jeremy Spencer said:


> His new library is going to be called SOOPUS


I think we're obligated to refer to HOOPUS as SOUPUS at VI-C from now on.


----------



## EwigWanderer

Bluemount Score said:


> Oooh... I saw you guys calling him Nick. Only just now I am realizing it was Mr. Phoenix all the time, had no clue


We are fortunate to have developers and artists like HZ here. Still we want them out of here making them uncomfortable by our way of communication. I understand that we are customers and spend hard earned money to buy their products but we should first ask them are they responsible of their company’s marketing, customer service and pricing policy.

many of those companies are big businesses and usually there are other entities who make those decisions and not the founders. It’s like making a salesperson day a nightmare at Wall Mart etc just because we think the sale price is too high for a 65” oled tv. It’s not his/her fault. (not the greatest example I know)


----------



## darthdeus

NoamL said:


> May be they have a target for _"Use HOOPUS marketing to convert X Hollywood Orchestra Gold owners to Hollywood Orchestra Diamond buyers before HOOPUS release"_ and that target hasn't been met. Just cynical speculation.


It’s certainly curious to have the upgrade for just $49. The price difference in the Gold->OPUS and Diamond->OPUS upgrade paths will probably tell us a lot about this pricing change ... I guess we can just hope they have good intentions.

I’m not sure though why they would reduce the upgrade price just before HOPUS is relased. Maybe it’s just a poorly coordinated release and they intended to release the discounted price together with HOPUS, which got delayed, and they decided to lower the price anyway? I certainly hope that’s the case.


----------



## Zamenhof

Justin L. Franks said:


> $49 upgrades for Gold to Diamond now? Looks like their push just a short time ago to upgrade to Diamond then as the cheapest path to a future upgrade to the complete/highest level of Opus wasn't actually the case.


This one annoys me quite a bit too. They ”strongly advised” Gold owners to upgrade before a certain date -- which I did -- and right after that date, they dumped the upgrade prices and cost me a lot of dollars.


----------



## Wlad

Zamenhof said:


> This one annoys me quite a bit too. They ”strongly advised” Gold owners to upgrade before a certain date -- which I did -- and right after that date, they dumped the upgrade prices and cost me a lot of dollars.


Some people were able to get the refound.


----------



## RogiervG

Unwatching this thread, since there is NO news for pages on end... and still many pages to come.


----------



## Geomir

Is it me, or Gold is not for sale anymore? Is it already a legacy product? It seems there is not an option to buy Gold (at least in the official web site). Even the description mentions only the 5 mics of the Diamond, like Gold never existed. Am I missing something?


----------



## Wlad

RogiervG said:


> Unwatching this thread, since there is NO news for pages on end... and still many pages to come.


Thank you for letting us know.


----------



## wlinart

Geomir said:


> Is it me, or Gold is not for sale anymore? Is it already a legacy product? It seems there is not an option to buy Gold (at least in the official web site). Even the description mentions only the 5 mics of the Diamond, like Gold never existed. Am I missing something?


Yes, i see the same thing over here. But the individual sections are still available in gold and diamond versions (no silver anymore though)


----------



## Geomir

wlinart said:


> Yes, i see the same thing over here. But the individual sections are still available in gold and diamond versions (no silver anymore though)


You're right the individual sections are still available! I don't know what's going on, it's obvious that they are making so many changes lately in their pricing model, let's just hope it's for the best.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Jeez, for the first time ever, I’m considering spending $$ elsewhere and skipping OPUS. I upgraded to HS Diamond for $49 (an upgrade I never considered), which is cool. However, the whole pricing thing has become a completely shady gong show. No updates from EW.... nothing.


----------



## Geomir

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Jeez, for the first time ever, I’m considering spending $$ elsewhere and skipping OPUS. I upgraded to HS Diamond for $49 (an upgrade I never considered), which is cool. However, the whole pricing thing has become a completely shady gong show. No updates from EW.... nothing.


I am also almost-ready to abandon this ship.

Or you can upgrade your whole EWQLSO Gold to Platinum for just $99. 

It's not the future of sample libraries, but so many of us are still using it up to this day.


----------



## BasariStudios

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Jeez, for the first time ever, I’m considering spending $$ elsewhere and skipping OPUS. I upgraded to HS Diamond for $49 (an upgrade I never considered), which is cool. However, the whole pricing thing has become a completely shady gong show. No updates from EW.... nothing.


I will just try to make the best out of HO since i have it and forget about EW.


----------



## Evans

This thread is unwieldy if you're looking for actual information. Has it been stated the extent to which they're revisiting older recordings?

For example, there are some pretty bad takes - individual notes at specific dynamics - scattered throughout EWHO that remain to this day. In some cases, they're actual distractions from a track, rather than something that adds to realism (which isn't something I really care about, anyway; "cohesive" is more my jam).

Are those funky bits being excised? I feel like I've seen more about fixing crossfades and better legato than I have about removing issues with individual recordings.


----------



## cqd

Evans said:


> This thread is unwieldy if you're looking for actual information. Has it been stated the extent to which they're revisiting older recordings?
> 
> For example, there are some pretty bad takes - individual notes at specific dynamics - scattered throughout EWHO that remain to this day. In some cases, they're actual distractions from a track, rather than something that adds to realism (which isn't something I really care about, anyway; "cohesive" is more my jam).
> 
> Are those funky bits being excised? I feel like I've seen more about fixing crossfades and better legato than I have about removing issues with individual recordings.


I would think so.. it's been reprogrammed from the ground up, so one would think things like that would be ironed out..


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

Evans said:


> This thread is unwieldy if you're looking for actual information. Has it been stated the extent to which they're revisiting older recordings?
> 
> For example, there are some pretty bad takes - individual notes at specific dynamics - scattered throughout EWHO that remain to this day. In some cases, they're actual distractions from a track, rather than something that adds to realism (which isn't something I really care about, anyway; "cohesive" is more my jam).
> 
> Are those funky bits being excised? I feel like I've seen more about fixing crossfades and better legato than I have about removing issues with individual recordings.


They said they reworked the woodwinds, but I don't think they said something about the other sections...


----------



## Ashermusic

José Herring said:


> Soon.


Has it occurred to you guys that many of the features that you wanted in Play Pro might actually be in Opus?


----------



## Jose7822

OK, now I have to defend EW here. If I were them, I would give up on trying to please people. First you complain that the upgraded prices are higher than the full license prices. Now that the upgrade prices have been adjusted accordingly, you complain still...?


----------



## Wlad

Jose7822 said:


> OK, now I have to defend EW here. If I were them, I would give up on trying to please people. First you complain that the upgraded prices are higher than the full license prices. Now that the upgrade prices have been adjusted accordingly, you complain still...?


I think some people are unsatisfied because they were urged to upgrade their Gold packages to Diamond, their X to Plus, cause OPUS is just around the corner. Now that OPUS is nowhere to be seen, and the prices are cut down, some people truly are harmed.


----------



## Jose7822

Wlad said:


> I think some people are unsatisfied because they were urged to upgrade their Gold packages to Diamond, their X to Plus, cause OPUS is just around the corner. Now that OPUS is nowhere to be seen, and the prices are cut down, some people truly are harmed.



I understand. But you yourself said that EW was issuing refunds, so where’s the harm? I bought the full license to HO Diamond instead of the upgrade given it was cheaper that way. Granted, that was months ago. But I composed music using it and I don’t regret it. The people who bought it recently are getting their money back (or the corresponding part, if you will). What more can EW do to satisfy them?


----------



## Evans

Jose7822 said:


> you yourself said that EW was issuing refunds, so where’s the harm?


If you don't get it by now, I don't imagine you're going to. That goes for both sides. Both have made their cases to exhaustion, and it doesn't seem there's much to talk about until there's new information released by EastWest.


----------



## Wlad

Jose7822 said:


> I understand. But you yourself said that EW was issuing refunds, so where’s the harm? I bought the full license to HO Diamond instead of the upgrade given it was cheaper that way. Granted, that was months ago. But I composed music using it and I don’t regret it. The people who bought it recently are getting their money back (or the corresponding part, if you will). What more can EW do to satisfy them?


I completely agree with you, but most people are not aware that refunds are a thing, cause there is no official announcement from the EW about the delay or refounds. There are composers that are not a part of the VI community. You can only imagine how confused they all are.


----------



## Jose7822

Wlad said:


> I completely agree with you, but most people are not aware that refunds are a thing, cause there is no official announcement from the EW about the delay or refounds. There are composers that are not a part of the VI community. You can only imagine how confused they all are.



Ah, gotcha! Then yeah, that is not good. EW should definitely contact people who have upgraded their subscription and make an official announcement. That is something they definitely need to work on (as I’ve said many times here).


----------



## Michael Antrum

Evans said:


> If you don't get it by now, I don't imagine you're going to. That goes for both sides. Both have made their cases to exhaustion, and it doesn't seem there's much to talk about until there's new information released by EastWest.


East West are just behaving as East West have always done, and I don't suppose they are going to change that anytime soon. Their policy on sales/upgrades has always been a little, erm, inconsistent is perhaps the best term.

That said, the upgrades from Gold to Diamond costing only $ 50 - that's insanely good value, and if I only had a copy of Gold I'd be on that straight away.

OPUS will come when it's good and ready, and I'm sure there will be some good aspects, and others that are not so good. But I can't wait to see what they come up with - whether it arrives in one month or six. I'm actually quite excited.....


----------



## BasariStudios

Jose7822 said:


> OK, now I have to defend EW here. If I were them, I would give up on trying to please people. First you complain that the upgraded prices are higher than the full license prices. Now that the upgrade prices have been adjusted accordingly, you complain still...?


You don't understand all this do you?


----------



## Jose7822

BasariStudios said:


> You don't understand all this do you?



I think I got it man .


----------



## José Herring

Ashermusic said:


> Has it occurred to you guys that many of the features that you wanted in Play Pro might actually be in Opus?


So what you're saying is that OPUS is "coming soon"?


----------



## WhiteNoiz

José Herring said:


> So what you're saying is that OPUS is "coming soon"?


Play Pro is coming soon.


----------



## mr.vad0614

It looks like I've missed the opportunity to upgrade from Hollywood Orchestra Gold to Platinum for only $50, as it says $199 now on the website. I wasn't even notified about it in my inbox, such a shame as I only came to find out about it on this thread wondering whether Opus has come out yet, I mean that's a steal for that price for an upgrade!?


----------



## Wlad

I think Nick and Doug are currently sitting in their office, laughing their asses off while counting money and reading our posts.


----------



## Michael Antrum

mr.vad0614 said:


> It looks like I've missed the opportunity to upgrade from Hollywood Orchestra Gold to Platinum for only $50, as it says $199 now on the website. I wasn't even notified about it in my inbox, such a shame as I only came to find out about it on this thread wondering whether Opus has come out yet, I mean that's a steal for that price for an upgrade!?


I don’t think you have missed out, as I believe the $50 upgrade was only for HWO...


----------



## Batwaffel

Again, the biggest issue here is the continued radio silence. As @Wlad pointed out, this is but a small part of their customer base on VI-C. All the rest of the people who bought into the marketing are in the dark on what is going on because EW refuses to acknowledge there is an issue at all which is inexcusable.

People also forget that this isn't personal; it's business. No one is attacking individuals, they are angry about a company for not doing what they should be doing. I don't think anyone would really have an issue if they just told people what is going on. Some people may grumble about it but it would put most minds at ease with more transparency. We are all in support of EW putting out the best product they can and if that means delays, so be it but at least have the decency to inform people of what is going on.


----------



## Ashermusic

Wlad said:


> I think Nick and Doug are currently sitting in their office, laughing their asses off while counting money and reading our posts.


No, but they aren't losing any sleep over them either.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

mr.vad0614 said:


> It looks like I've missed the opportunity to upgrade from Hollywood Orchestra Gold to Platinum for only $50, as it says $199 now on the website. I wasn't even notified about it in my inbox, such a shame as I only came to find out about it on this thread wondering whether Opus has come out yet, I mean that's a steal for that price for an upgrade!?


It’s per section, not the entire HO for $49.


----------



## Ashermusic

José Herring said:


> So what you're saying is that OPUS is "coming soon"?


If I knew something, (not saying that I do) don't you think I would have been required to sign an NDR not to discuss that?


----------



## José Herring

Ashermusic said:


> If I knew something, (not saying that I do and have) don't you think I would have been required to sign an NDR not to discuss that?


Perhaps, so let's say that you did have an NDR, how long would you think that NDR would be in effect? 1 week, 2 weeks, a month? Just curious.


----------



## Michael Antrum

José Herring said:


> Perhaps, so let's say that you did have an NDR, how long would you think that NDR would be in effect? 1 week, 2 weeks, a month? Just curious.


I see what you did there......


----------



## ennbr

What is an NDR or are you referring to an NDA


----------



## José Herring

ennbr said:


> What is an NDR or are you referring to an NDA


Potato/Potäto. We know what we mean.


----------



## ShidoStrife

mr.vad0614 said:


> It looks like I've missed the opportunity to upgrade from Hollywood Orchestra Gold to Platinum for only $50, as it says $199 now on the website. I wasn't even notified about it in my inbox, such a shame as I only came to find out about it on this thread wondering whether Opus has come out yet, I mean that's a steal for that price for an upgrade!?


 It's $50 per section and $199 for the bundle


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Jose7822 said:


> I understand. But you yourself said that EW was issuing refunds, so where’s the harm? I bought the full license to HO Diamond instead of the upgrade given it was cheaper that way. Granted, that was months ago. But I composed music using it and I don’t regret it. The people who bought it recently are getting their money back (or the corresponding part, if you will). What more can EW do to satisfy them?


At this point, sorry I cannot see anything more than entitlement. As you say, complaints about any outcome. This is the very reason why it is not even logical to please all customers, humans are never happy as a collective. There will always be someone who is displeased. But at this point, the excuses and arguments for being unhappy are becomeing more apparent as being whining.

As people have said, people can still compose music, buy other products etc. Nothing is forcing anyone's hand. And if advertising is compelling you to purchase something, then you simply need to learn self-control in matters of finances (I speak for myself who has fought long and hard to overcome the consumerist-hype train). If companies can cause impulse purchasing, it is because they are exploiting something in buyers that is already there. And of course marketers know this... so we have to be smarter than them.

My two cents anyway


----------



## mr.vad0614

Thank you to all who answered my question, that makes a lot of sense now. I'm not sure if anyone has asked this question at all, but as Sonuscore developed the Orchestrator for Hollywood Orchestra Opus how does this compete with Sonuscore's The Orchestra Complete 2? I guess it probably comes down to the number of samples recorded, including dynamic layers, number of round robins as well as the sample quality rate right being a lot better than The Orchestra Complete 2?


----------



## Wlad

mr.vad0614 said:


> Thank you to all who answered my question, that makes a lot of sense now. I'm not sure if anyone has asked this question at all, but as Sonuscore developed the Orchestrator for Hollywood Orchestra Opus how does this compete with Sonuscore's The Orchestra Complete 2? I guess it probably comes down to the number of samples recorded, including dynamic layers, number of round robins as well as the sample quality rate right being a lot better than The Orchestra Complete 2?


The Orchestra was intended to be a resource friendly sketching tool. It has nothing to do with Hollywood Orchestra Opus.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> At this point, sorry I cannot see anything more than entitlement. As you say, complaints about any outcome. This is the very reason why it is not even logical to please all customers, humans are never happy as a collective. There will always be someone who is displeased. But at this point, the excuses and arguments for being unhappy are becomeing more apparent as being whining.
> 
> As people have said, people can still compose music, buy other products etc. Nothing is forcing anyone's hand. And if advertising is compelling you to purchase something, then you simply need to learn self-control in matters of finances (I speak for myself who has fought long and hard to overcome the consumerist-hype train). If companies can cause impulse purchasing, it is because they are exploiting something in buyers that is already there. And of course marketers know this... so we have to be smarter than them.
> 
> My two cents anyway


The problem is, they are sporadically changing their pricing, and did not deliver a product on the date that was advertised. And worse, zero communication from their marketing department. I don’t think there’s any sense of entitlement here, nor whining.


----------



## BasariStudios

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> There will always be someone who is displeased


As you can see in this topic its not someone but its EVERYONE, of course
everyone who has skin in the game and not by passers like you.


----------



## janila

Did someone ask if the whole library had to be downloaded again? If the OPUS player is compatible with the old files then the upgrade sale (or new permanent more sensible upgrade prices) might not be a trap as EW would divide some of the huge downloads over time which benefits them and the customers. Otherwise luring people into buying and downloading hundreds of gigs of redundant files maybe even at a premium makes EW no favours in trying to maximize the amount of HO customers upgrading to OPUS. I suppose there are more people like me who didn't want to pay for the hardware required to run Diamond back in the day (especially considering how horrible PLAY was with resources) but could upgrade to it now if it makes any sense before OPUS.

It's weird that the only reason I'm interested in OPUS is the fact that I always hated PLAY. It would be nice to finally be able to use the sound to it's full potential but I really don't like the idea of paying more to a company so detached from the surrounding reality.


----------



## Tremendouz

janila said:


> Did someone ask if the whole library had to be downloaded again? If the OPUS player is compatible with the old files then the upgrade sale (or new permanent more sensible upgrade prices) might not be a trap as EW would divide some of the huge downloads over time which benefits them and the customers. Otherwise luring people into buying and downloading hundreds of gigs of redundant files maybe even at a premium makes EW no favours in trying to maximize the amount of HO customers upgrading to OPUS. I suppose there are more people like me who didn't want to pay for the hardware required to run Diamond back in the day (especially considering how horrible PLAY was with resources) but could upgrade to it now if it makes any sense before OPUS.


I'm pretty sure you won't have to download the existing sample content again. Can't remember which one of the 109 pages it was mentioned on or who was the source though.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

janila said:


> Did someone ask if the whole library had to be downloaded again?


I did, and no, a redownload will not be necessary.


----------



## BasariStudios

janila said:


> It's weird that the only reason I'm interested in OPUS is the fact that I always hated PLAY. It would be nice to finally be able to use the sound to it's full potential but I really don't like the idea of paying more to a company so detached from the surrounding reality.


Same here, they can even block me from the new Content and 
just give me the Player if it is any improvement from Play.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

BasariStudios said:


> As you can see in this topic its not someone but its EVERYONE, of course
> everyone who has skin in the game and not by passers like you.


I mean, it isn't _everyone_.


----------



## darthdeus

Wlad said:


> I completely agree with you, but most people are not aware that refunds are a thing, cause there is no official announcement from the EW about the delay or refounds. There are composers that are not a part of the VI community. You can only imagine how confused they all are.


Wait refunds are a thing with EW? I thought they explicitly listed that there are absolutely no refunds once you download the library. I remember checking this because soon after I bought EWHO Diamond I realized I really don't need it (and its space requirements) and wanted to refund and get Gold instead, though I never asked on support, but the website was pretty clear about it.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Quantum Leap said:


> We are the Fawlty Towers of customer service.



Sorry, need to come back to this one. Your support and customer service is top notch, very responsive and very helpful from my experience. What EW suck at is PR and overall communication. Let's not mix those two 

ps. Where's the soup?


----------



## MarcelM

i only wonder what this will cost for diamond owners. i wont pay a few hundred bucks for the same samples again just to get a new fancy gui or something.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

MarcelM said:


> i only wonder what this will cost for diamond owners. i wont pay a few hundred bucks for the same samples again just to get a new fancy gui or something.


There is quite a bit of new content.


----------



## MarcelM

Jeremy Spencer said:


> There is quite a bit of new content.


well, we will see. fact is that upgrade pricing was always bad for ew products and iam really looking forward to see the price for opus. not sure what it really brings new to the table, but i fear the price will be too high.

customer service from ew was always good, but their pricing policy isnt the best one on the market when it comes to existing customers.


----------



## Gerbil

Spitfire's recent BBCSO update gave users a load of extra content in the form of mutes and enhanced patches for free. I'm not saying HOPUS should be free, just that when there's a high quality low price product like BBCSO Core on the market then I think it's wise to be a bit cautious about what you intend to ask existing customers to pay.


----------



## Evans

Gerbil said:


> Spitfire's recent BBCSO update gave users a load of extra content in the form of mutes and enhanced patches for free. I'm not saying HOPUS should be free, just that when there's a high quality low price product like BBCSO Core on the market then I think it's wise to be a bit cautious about what you intend to ask existing customers to pay.


I'm not sure that's fair. BBCSO Pro received 36 GB of new content. SOUPUS is expected to get, what, 230 GB of new recordings?


----------



## MarcelM

Evans said:


> I'm not sure that's fair. BBCSO Pro received 36 GB of new content. SOUPUS is expected to get, what, 230 GB of new recordings?



size in gb really doesnt tell everything in the world of samples.


----------



## Evans

MarcelM said:


> size in gb really doesnt tell everything in the world of samples.


I'm not sure anyone said it did.


----------



## cqd

MarcelM said:


> size in gb really doesnt tell everything in the world of samples.


Especially with spitfire..bbcso has 18 mics I think..so that's 2 gb * 18..


----------



## MarcelM

Evans said:


> I'm not sure anyone said it did.


errr... you kinda did by comparing the update from bbcso vs the one from opus?


----------



## Evans

MarcelM said:


> errr... you kinda did by comparing the update from bbcso vs the one from opus?


"Everything"?


----------



## BasariStudios

Evans said:


> I'm not sure that's fair. BBCSO Pro received 36 GB of new content. SOUPUS is expected to get, what, 230 GB of new recordings?


I made a Patch in Kontakt that's 500GB. I also made one that's 80MB.
Each one took me the same amount of time, 1 hour.
The 80MB Sounds a lot better. We are not weighting Apples here
but 1s and 0s, which have no Quantity or Volume Value.
The same exact Strings patch can be 750GB or 750MB and it can
still take the exact amount of time and effort to create either or.


----------



## Evans

BasariStudios said:


> I made a Patch in Kontakt that's 500GB. I also made one that's 80MB.
> Each one took me the same amount of time, 1 hour.
> The 80MB Sounds a lot better. We are not weighting Apples here
> but 1s and 0s, which have no Quantity or Volume Value.
> The same exact Strings patch can be 750GB or 750MB and it can
> still take the exact amount of time and effort to create either or.


The fact is that 230 GB of recordings with what is likely ("only") four mic positions is a large amount of content, and I think it's possibly setting our expectations poorly if anyone thinks it's feasible for it to be on the low end of cost.

Not once did I say it's everything, but it is relevant. I'm not sure how anyone could extract "everything" out of my post. Seems like a knee jerk response.

I think a proper response to my post would have been, "Yep, that's fair, any way you slice it that's a lot of new content and it's possible that this won't be cheap."


----------



## Gerbil

Evans said:


> The fact is that 230 GB of recordings with what is likely ("only") four mic positions is a large amount of content, and I think it's possibly setting our expectations poorly if anyone thinks it's feasible for it to be on the low end of cost.
> 
> Not once did I say it's everything, but it is relevant. I'm not sure how anyone could extract "everything" out of my post. Seems like a knee jerk response.
> 
> I think a proper response to my post would have been, "Yep, that's fair, any way you slice it that's a lot of new content and it's possible that this won't be cheap."


EW said they're adding new 1st Violins, 2 trumpets, trombones..I can't remember the rest. All that's really saying is that the previous instruments are no longer good enough. Like I said, I'm not saying it should be free - I remember happily paying $100 for the LASS update a few years ago - just that some of the talk about it possibly costing $400+ for existing users to upgrade has me shaking my head.

I'm not personally that bothered one way or the other as I only use its (superb) horns and playable string runs, but I keep my eye on this thread in hope that us non-power users might get access to keyswitching and updated patches for a reasonable price.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Gerbil said:


> EW said they're adding new 1st Violins, 2 trumpets, trombones..I can't remember the rest. All that's really saying is that the previous instruments are no longer good enough. Like I said, I'm not saying it should be free - I remember happily paying $100 for the LASS update a few years ago - just that some of the talk about it possibly costing $400+ for existing users to upgrade has me shaking my head.
> 
> I'm not personally that bothered one way or the other as I only use its (superb) horns and playable string runs, but I keep my eye on this thread in hope that us non-power users might get access to keyswitching and updated patches for a reasonable price.


From the website...

18 violin string section for Hollywood Strings, new ensembles for Hollywood Brass and Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds, plus new string, brass, and wind multi ensembles.


----------



## yellow_lupine

Still no news from EW...


----------



## MauroPantin

To be honest, I'm mainly looking forward to the re-programmed WWs, which were always a bit lackluster for me, particularly legatos. I'm absolutely fine with the Strings and Brass as they are, I love how they sound. Perc is ok, too.

Play works just fine for me as well, it does what it needs to do (and not much more). I'm looking forward to OPUS as well mainly for it's purge function. The download on demand also seems interesting.

Regarding pricing and all that stuff I think with EW, whether on purpose or not, the best thing is probably to be on the CC subscription and call it a day. It's pocket change, really (although I understand that hobbyst may feel this is not as convenient) and you save yourself from all the anguish of dealing with the upgrade pricings and all the issues that people have been mentioning. I will be upgrading my CCX to Plus once OPUS is out (and not a minute earlier than that) provided their special pricing is still available at that point.


----------



## cqd

I'm mainly looking forward to the big coloured pictures in the middle..


----------



## BasariStudios

cqd said:


> I'm mainly looking forward to the big coloured pictures in the middle..


I love that...will subscribe to CC just for that.
I heard in CC+ it will be in a higher Rez.


----------



## cqd

BasariStudios said:


> I love that...will subscribe to CC just for that.
> I heard in CC+ it will be in a higher Rez.


You can meditate upon them and maybe you'll calm down a bit..


----------



## szczaw

cqd said:


> I'm mainly looking forward to the big coloured pictures in the middle..


They missed the chance to put a big knob in the middle.


----------



## doctoremmet

Wait. There can only be one KNOB....


----------



## szczaw

Spitfire's knob is pretty big and successful:


----------



## doctoremmet

I’ll take Spitfire’s and raise you the Waves One Knob series. Ha!

Which is way.... well... LOUDER.


----------



## Zamenhof

doctoremmet said:


> I’ll take Spitfire’s and raise you the Waves One Knob series. Ha!
> 
> Which is way.... well... LOUDER.
> 
> View attachment 44156


Bah, it doesn't even go to 11.


----------



## doctoremmet

Zamenhof said:


> Bah, it doesn't even go to 11.


What are you talking about man...?


----------



## Toecutter

No price yet? I thought EW would have at least the pricing figured out for the big NAMM release


----------



## sIR dORT

Just to confirm, we'll be able to host the original HWO samples in the OPUS player right?


----------



## Wlad

sIR dORT said:


> Just to confirm, we'll be able to host the original HWO samples in the OPUS player right?


Yes.


----------



## Evans

sIR dORT said:


> Just to confirm, we'll be able to host the original HWO samples in the OPUS player right?


*Confirmed: *much of Opus Edition is comprised of old EWHO samples.

*I believe confirmed:* you won't have to redownload all your existing sample folders.

*Not sure:* if you receive any benefit without making any new Opus-related purchase.


----------



## Jose7822

When comparing Kontakt libraries to EW libraries, you have to keep in mind that both use compression for their content. HOWEVER, I believe that Kontakt’s compression is much more aggressive than EW’s compression algorithm. Obviously we’re talking lossless compression in both cases.

That said, OPUS seems to bring a good amount of new content to the table, plus a new software which is supposed to make using their samples much easier. But I agree that the price needs to be competitive, especially given that most of the content is old. If their tactic is to make purchasing the license expensive in order to attract CC subscribers, then I’ll just pass and get something else, or wait until it goes on sale in a year or two. That depends on how OPUS, as a whole, fairs against the competition.


----------



## Markrs

Zamenhof said:


> Bah, it doesn't even go to 11.


In homage to that scene the BBC iPlayer volume goes to 11 (unless they have changed it as been a while since I last used it)


----------



## I like music

Markrs said:


> In homage to that scene the BBC iPlayer volume goes to 11 (unless they have changed it as been a while since I last used it)


And the film's IMDB rating is out of 11.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

Evans said:


> *I believe confirmed:* you won't have to redownload all your existing sample folders.


Definitely confirmed, yes - unless the support member I asked was lying.



Evans said:


> *Not sure:* if you receive any benefit without making any new Opus-related purchase.


If you don't buy the upgrade to Opus the new engine "will probably be available to you" (I asked the support).


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Laurin Lenschow said:


> If you don't buy the upgrade to Opus the new engine "will probably be available to you" (I asked the support).


Gee, it’s nice to know they aren’t totally sure yet.


----------



## darthdeus

I wonder if there will be a way to just get the new player and the orchestrator without paying for additional samples. I guess probably not, but would still be a nice "budget" option. 



Jose7822 said:


> When comparing Kontakt libraries to EW libraries, you have to keep in mind that both use compression for their content. HOWEVER, I believe that Kontakt’s compression is much more aggressive than EW’s compression algorithm. Obviously we’re talking lossless compression in both cases.
> 
> That said, OPUS seems to bring a good amount of new content to the table, plus a new software which is supposed to make using their samples much easier. But I agree that the price needs to be competitive, especially given that most of the content is old. If their tactic is to make purchasing the license expensive in order to attract CC subscribers, then I’ll just pass and get something else, or wait until it goes on sale in a year or two. That depends on how OPUS, as a whole, fairs against the competition.


One thing you can notice is that EW samples are stored in a deeply nested directory structure with hundreds of thousands of files. I'm really hoping OPUS fixes this, since it'd both make loading faster and less wasteful.


----------



## BasariStudios

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Definitely confirmed, yes - unless the support member I asked was lying.
> 
> 
> If you don't buy the upgrade to Opus the new engine "will probably be available to you" (I asked the support).


I would take EW Support words with a grain of salt. 
Those guys does not even know where their pants are.


----------



## Trash Panda

BasariStudios said:


> I would take EW Support words with a grain of salt.
> Those guys does not even know where their pants are.


Working at a SAAS company, I can say that any support team is only as good as the info they’re given.


----------



## BasariStudios

Trash Panda said:


> Working at a SAAS company, I can say that any support team is only as good as the info they’re given.


That is actually true, it is not all their responsibility, 
they can only say what they are told they can say.
The problem is when 3 different people say 3 different things.


----------



## Trash Panda

BasariStudios said:


> That is actually true, it is not all their responsibility,
> they can only say what they are told they can say.
> The problem is when 3 different people say 3 different things.


Which is a failing of the leadership, not the support team.


----------



## muziksculp

So... What year is Hoopus expected to be out ?


----------



## BasariStudios

muziksculp said:


> So... What year is Hoopus expected to be out ?


At this point it can be 2085, it won't matter to me anymore.


----------



## muziksculp

BasariStudios said:


> At this point it can be 2085, it won't matter to me anymore.


 It don't matter to me either. I'm still waiting for PLAY-Pro


----------



## BasariStudios

muziksculp said:


> It don't matter to me either. I'm still waiting for PLAY-Pro


Play Pro will be before Opus.


----------



## muziksculp

BasariStudios said:


> Play Pro will be before Opus.


Cool, so most likely 2084.


----------



## Jose7822

I thought is was the year 2077 🤣.


----------



## darthdeus

Jose7822 said:


> I thought is was the year 2077 🤣.


Cyberpunk set some pretty funny launch expectations, maybe EW are trying to copy them


----------



## cloudbuster

Oh well, I never had any real issues with their 'Player', less than e.g. with the current Spitfire stuff and so I'm not in a hurry to see anything changed. Just let EW sleepwalk through their publicity mess; after all there's still a chance that they offer the new player (without the new samples and Orchestrator) as a free upgrade to Player 6. Who knows?


----------



## Jay Panikkar

I was very much looking forward to this, but tbh, I'd prefer a polished product with a delayed release over a rushed piece of garbage requiring several weeks / months of fixes before it's viable for production use.


----------



## Gerbil

Jay Panikkar said:


> I was very much looking forward to this, but tbh, I'd prefer a polished product with a delayed release over a rushed piece of garbage requiring several weeks / months of fixes before it's viable for production use.


You'll only need to wait for OPUS 5 then


----------



## Evans

Gerbil said:


> You'll only need to wait for OPUS 5 then


OPUS 5 Pro


----------



## Pier

Evans said:


> OPUS 5 Pro


OPUS 5 Pro Final 2


----------



## GregStuckey

While we’re all waiting for OPUS, I wanted to post this because there are still things HWO does that I don’t think anything else can do, and they don’t really need fixing in OPUS. Most of HWO is great as it is. 

I just posted this mockup of my favourite John Powell track from Star Wars, and this was taken from when I first attempted the trumpet parts, spliced together. All done with the Trumpet a3 KS patch. No layering.




These are the only trumpets I _really_ like the tone of, and I haven’t seen anything with a greater variety of shorts or that has double-tonguing articulations flexible like HWB. Not to mention the dynamic range. too. So I'm looking forward to hearing what the new ones sound like, because for me, these are the benchmark.

Also, here’s the full Mock-up, done with HWO, augmented by some other libs including the old EWQL SO. Hopefully this isn’t too off-topic.

 




__





StarWars: Corellia Chase - John Powell - Mockup - (HWO,Vista,JXL)


Hi All! Here is my attempt at John Powell’s Corellia Chase from Solo a Star Wars Story. Since graduating I’ve had plenty of free time, and I wanted to see how close I could get to the original with the samples I have, and spending some time on it rather than quick sketches. I was pretty happy...




vi-control.net


----------



## stfciu

GregStuckey said:


> While we’re all waiting for OPUS, I wanted to post this because there are still things HWO does that I don’t think anything else can do, and they don’t really need fixing in OPUS. Most of HWO is great as it is.
> 
> I just posted this mockup of my favourite John Powell track from Star Wars, and this was taken from when I first attempted the trumpet parts, spliced together. All done with the Trumpet a3 KS patch. No layering.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are the only trumpets I _really_ like the tone of, and I haven’t seen anything with a greater variety of shorts or that has double-tonguing articulations flexible like HWB. Not to mention the dynamic range. too. So I'm looking forward to hearing what the new ones sound like, because for me, these are the benchmark.
> 
> Also, here’s the full Mock-up, done with HWO, augmented by some other libs including the old EWQL SO. Hopefully this isn’t too off-topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StarWars: Corellia Chase - John Powell - Mockup - (HWO,Vista,JXL)
> 
> 
> Hi All! Here is my attempt at John Powell’s Corellia Chase from Solo a Star Wars Story. Since graduating I’ve had plenty of free time, and I wanted to see how close I could get to the original with the samples I have, and spending some time on it rather than quick sketches. I was pretty happy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



Very well done Sir! I also think HO is still top notch library and in right hands (like yours) can sound great and very convincing.


----------



## Lazer42

GregStuckey said:


> While we’re all waiting for OPUS, I wanted to post this because there are still things HWO does that I don’t think anything else can do, and they don’t really need fixing in OPUS. Most of HWO is great as it is.
> 
> I just posted this mockup of my favourite John Powell track from Star Wars, and this was taken from when I first attempted the trumpet parts, spliced together. All done with the Trumpet a3 KS patch. No layering.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are the only trumpets I _really_ like the tone of, and I haven’t seen anything with a greater variety of shorts or that has double-tonguing articulations flexible like HWB. Not to mention the dynamic range. too. So I'm looking forward to hearing what the new ones sound like, because for me, these are the benchmark.
> 
> Also, here’s the full Mock-up, done with HWO, augmented by some other libs including the old EWQL SO. Hopefully this isn’t too off-topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StarWars: Corellia Chase - John Powell - Mockup - (HWO,Vista,JXL)
> 
> 
> Hi All! Here is my attempt at John Powell’s Corellia Chase from Solo a Star Wars Story. Since graduating I’ve had plenty of free time, and I wanted to see how close I could get to the original with the samples I have, and spending some time on it rather than quick sketches. I was pretty happy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



I want to like HWO because I already have it and have used it for years, I think much of it does sound great (especially the brass), and with OPUS coming out I am excited to (hopefully) be able to make better use of it without having to deal with some of it's workflow shortcomings. I really get stuck on the strings, though. I think in a big lush mix they sound good but if they're more than a little exposed I notice a lot of notes with tuning problems (mainly on the attack), vibrato that doesn't sound quite right, and even a funny timbre here and there. 

Am I wrong/alone in this? It's perhaps somewhat off topic, but at the same time my interest in/intention to use OPUS is going to be heavily influenced by the decision I ultimately come to about how to regard these strings.


----------



## Braveheart

GregStuckey said:


> While we’re all waiting for OPUS, I wanted to post this because there are still things HWO does that I don’t think anything else can do, and they don’t really need fixing in OPUS. Most of HWO is great as it is.
> 
> I just posted this mockup of my favourite John Powell track from Star Wars, and this was taken from when I first attempted the trumpet parts, spliced together. All done with the Trumpet a3 KS patch. No layering.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are the only trumpets I _really_ like the tone of, and I haven’t seen anything with a greater variety of shorts or that has double-tonguing articulations flexible like HWB. Not to mention the dynamic range. too. So I'm looking forward to hearing what the new ones sound like, because for me, these are the benchmark.
> 
> Also, here’s the full Mock-up, done with HWO, augmented by some other libs including the old EWQL SO. Hopefully this isn’t too off-topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StarWars: Corellia Chase - John Powell - Mockup - (HWO,Vista,JXL)
> 
> 
> Hi All! Here is my attempt at John Powell’s Corellia Chase from Solo a Star Wars Story. Since graduating I’ve had plenty of free time, and I wanted to see how close I could get to the original with the samples I have, and spending some time on it rather than quick sketches. I was pretty happy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



That sounds really fantastic! And no, it’s not off-topic, far from it. It’s a bit of fresh air from the countless pages of complaints about the delays. I can understand the frustration, but it’s getting too much.


----------



## Evans

Lazer42 said:


> I really get stuck on the strings, though. I think in a big lush mix they sound good but if they're more than a little exposed I notice a lot of notes with tuning problems


Yeah, this can be a real bummer. They're often _by far_ the best fit for some projects and are highly flexible, but do have quirks to work around. Sometimes, I can transpose trick away from a bad sample or work in a different patch. Here and there, I've replaced a few notes with another library or obfuscated it with other instruments. Still, a buzzkill.

EWHO with VSL's QA would have been absolutely insane. This is why I'm wondering how much, if at all, they're revisiting old samples to make some precision cuts of bad takes.


----------



## Ashermusic

BasariStudios said:


> I would take EW Support words with a grain of salt.
> Those guys does not even know where their pants are.


Support people do not necessarily have any information about upcoming pricing and products specifics than you do. Their job is to help you with problems with existing products. The EW support people, who I engaged with for six years, are knowledgeable and caring.

It is not part of their job to disseminate information to you about upcoming products and pricing.


----------



## darthdeus

Jay Panikkar said:


> I was very much looking forward to this, but tbh, I'd prefer a polished product with a delayed release over a rushed piece of garbage requiring several weeks / months of fixes before it's viable for production use.


As a software dev, I kinda prefer the opposite. Unpolished buggy software with acknowledged issues and transparent updates that fix problems over the next few weeks/months gives me way more confidence than a silently delayed release with no communication. All software is fundamentally buggy, but it's the communication that makes you believe that if you actually do run into issues they will get fixed.


----------



## GregStuckey

stfciu said:


> Very well done Sir! I also think HO is still top notch library and in right hands (like yours) can sound great and very convincing.


Thank you!



Braveheart said:


> That sounds really fantastic! And no, it’s not off-topic, far from it. It’s a bit of fresh air from the countless pages of complaints about the delays. I can understand the frustration, but it’s getting too much.


Much appreciated!



Lazer42 said:


> I want to like HWO because I already have it and have used it for years, I think much of it does sound great (especially the brass), and with OPUS coming out I am excited to (hopefully) be able to make better use of it without having to deal with some of it's workflow shortcomings. I really get stuck on the strings, though. I think in a big lush mix they sound good but if they're more than a little exposed I notice a lot of notes with tuning problems (mainly on the attack), vibrato that doesn't sound quite right, and even a funny timbre here and there.
> 
> Am I wrong/alone in this? It's perhaps somewhat off topic, but at the same time my interest in/intention to use OPUS is going to be heavily influenced by the decision I ultimately come to about how to regard these strings.


Yes, I think you're right about that. Do you have diamond? I find that gold (Main) mic can sound a bit harsh on its own. But in a dense mix it just cuts through unlike anything else. Most of the time, when I want something softer I use the Vintage mics with a bit of the Close mics to bring back some detail. But I prefer the Mid mics to the mains, because often HWS can sound too big and too lush, and the Mid mics help to fix that. 

Yes, I've encountered some tuning issues every now and then, not that they were awful. With chromatic sampling at least it only affects one note. The biggest issue (and sound like what you're talking about) is on _some_ patches re-bowing same notes does that. But often changing to a different legato patch or finger position helps. Luckily there are so many legato variants and patches that you can do that with HWS. I'm hoping Opus does rework this though.

In terms of exposed, I'm not sure _how _exposed you mean. You might be talking softer than this. But I try and be restrained with vibrato on softer passages, and bring it in progressively on held notes. This was sketch I did as a test, EQ'ing Vintage+close Mics to get the smoothest tone. Pretty sure this is just HWS (BC leg) and some sub.



I'm starting to learn that bigger ensembles aren't always the best for intimate writing (at least in the world of samples). Which is why I'm loving Vista so much. I blends really nicely with HWS and adds definition that the first example I think needs. This is another sketch I did when I got vista and was balancing them in my template.


----------



## feck

I think everyone repeatedly posting/complaining in this thread needs to turn the interwebs off and go make some music already. Jesus, talk about a bunch of Karens.


----------



## darthdeus

feck said:


> I think everyone repeatedly posting in this thread needs to turn the interwebs off and go make some music already. Jesus, talk about a bunch of Karens.


Maybe EW is waiting until we reach 1000 pages until they tell us the exact release date!


----------



## Evans

feck said:


> I think everyone repeatedly posting/complaining in this thread needs to turn the interwebs off and go make some music already. Jesus, talk about a bunch of Karens.


Can't make much music on the toilet. Nothing I can sell, at least.


----------



## feck

Evans said:


> Can't make much music on the toilet. Nothing I can sell, at least.


That’s what an iPad is for! Haha


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

GregStuckey said:


> Thank you!
> 
> 
> Much appreciated!
> 
> 
> Yes, I think you're right about that. Do you have diamond? I find that gold (Main) mic can sound a bit harsh on its own. But in a dense mix it just cuts through unlike anything else. Most of the time, when I want something softer I use the Vintage mics with a bit of the Close mics to bring back some detail. But I prefer the Mid mics to the mains, because often HWS can sound too big and too lush, and the Mid mics help to fix that.
> 
> Yes, I've encountered some tuning issues every now and then, not that they were awful. With chromatic sampling at least it only affects one note. The biggest issue (and sound like what you're talking about) is on _some_ patches re-bowing same notes does that. But often changing to a different legato patch or finger position helps. Luckily there are so many legato variants and patches that you can do that with HWS. I'm hoping Opus does rework this though.
> 
> In terms of exposed, I'm not sure _how _exposed you mean. You might be talking softer than this. But I try and be restrained with vibrato on softer passages, and bring it in progressively on held notes. This was sketch I did as a test, EQ'ing Vintage+close Mics to get the smoothest tone. Pretty sure this is just HWS (BC leg) and some sub.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm starting to learn that bigger ensembles aren't always the best for intimate writing (at least in the world of samples). Which is why I'm loving Vista so much. I blends really nicely with HWS and adds definition that the first example I think needs. This is another sketch I did when I got vista and was balancing them in my template.



Greg, nice work there.

Mind if I ask...what mic's do you typically use for your default settings in HS? I recently upgraded to from Gold, and I'm trying to determine what the ideal mic combo's are. So far I'm liking just the Main's.


----------



## GregStuckey

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Greg, nice work there.
> 
> Mind if I ask...what mic's do you typically use for your default settings in HS? I recently upgraded to from Gold, and I'm trying to determine what the ideal mic combo's are. So far I'm liking just the Main's.


Thank you! Of course. Right now my template is set up with just Mid mics. I was using the Vintage+Close for a while, but now I keep them when I want something softer. Also I love the CS simulation on HWS especially with Vintage mics. I like the slightly smaller sound of the Mid Mics, because the Vintage+close sounds amazingly lush, but often too big. Its also nice for RAM/CPU using just one mic. EQ is a really subtle boost around 60hz, remove some boxiness, and add some 6-8k. The exact frequencies depend on the instrument, but it's all very subtle. There is usually a smiley faced Pultec on the string buss when I come to mix it.

For me, the key to the short artics are the close mics. You can pair them with anything tbh. Then everything into Cinematic Rooms and UAD Lex224.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

GregStuckey said:


> Thank you! Of course. Right now my template is set up with just Mid mics. I was using the Vintage+Close for a while, but now I keep them when I want something softer. Also I love the CS simulation on HWS especially with Vintage mics. I like the slightly smaller sound of the Mid Mics, because the Vintage+close sounds amazingly lush, but often too big. Its also nice for RAM/CPU using just one mic. EQ is a really subtle boost around 60hz, remove some boxiness, and add some 6-8k. The exact frequencies depend on the instrument, but it's all very subtle. There is usually a smiley faced Pultec on the string buss when I come to mix it.
> 
> For me, the key to the short artics are the close mics. You can pair them with anything tbh. Then everything into Cinematic Rooms and UAD Lex224.


Thanks a lot! Yes, I love the CS sim, one of the best I've heard. I tried HS with Cinematic Rooms (which I also recently picked up), and it's my go-to reverb for just about everything now. 

I'm also questioning whether of not I should upgrade to 128GB Ram. I haven't put together my new templates, but I'm hoping 64GB will suffice.


----------



## GregStuckey

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Thanks a lot! Yes, I love the CS sim, one of the best I've heard. I tried HS with Cinematic Rooms (which I also recently picked up), and it's my go-to reverb for just about everything now.
> 
> I'm also questioning whether of not I should upgrade to 128GB Ram. I haven't put together my new templates, but I'm hoping 64GB will suffice.


I have 72gb, and HWO is the only thing making me want to upgrade to 128.


----------



## Jose7822

Jeremy,

If you can go up to 128GB, then do it! 64GB is enough to work with HO Diamond if you stick to one mic position. But the moment you start adding 2 or more mic positions per instrument, you’ll hit a ceiling. RAM is cheap anyway, so why not?


----------



## cqd

Jose7822 said:


> Jeremy,
> 
> If you can go up to 128GB, then do it! 64GB is enough to work with HO Diamond if you stick to one mic position. But the moment you start adding 2 or more mic positions per instrument, you’ll hit a ceiling. RAM is cheap anyway, so why not?


Really?..I have a template that has 2-3 mics for everything and I don't think it's much more than about 40g..


----------



## Jose7822

Really. My template barely handles 64GB and it’s mostly made up of HO Diamond. I do have instruments from other libraries, only in the percussion section though, and no layering. There are also synths, FX and Hits, but those don’t consume nearly as much RAM as a Powerful Legato patch from HS Diamond with 3 mic positions, for example.

And, btw, that’s with the engine level in PLAY set to the lowest number, which relies on disk streaming more than RAM loading.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Jose7822 said:


> Jeremy,
> 
> If you can go up to 128GB, then do it! 64GB is enough to work with HO Diamond if you stick to one mic position. But the moment you start adding 2 or more mic positions per instrument, you’ll hit a ceiling. RAM is cheap anyway, so why not?


Thanks! That's definitely the consensus I've been getting, everyone has been very helpful. I'm already liking the multiple mic combos, and did the HB upgrade as well. So considering BBCSO is also going to be in the template, I've gone ahead with ordering the extra RAM.


----------



## Wlad

feck said:


> I think everyone repeatedly posting/complaining in this thread needs to turn the interwebs off and go make some music already. Jesus, talk about a bunch of Karens.


Leave us alone...


----------



## szczaw

BBC Core is here more resource hungry than HO diamond. Loading a bunch of BBC instruments causes big memory spike. I'm glad I didn't go for the Pro version. Play is also much more stable.


----------



## Wlad

I have all my tracks in cubase disabled, and I only enable those articulations and instruments that are used in the current project. I dont think I ever came close to 64gb. Most of the time I'm hovering around 30gb.

"But most Hollywood composers have all their articulations and instruments enabled so they can switch between them ultra fast and not risk their moment of inspiration to go away".

That's where you are wrong Jimmy. Enabling the track only takes 2-3 seconds and template loading times are much shorter.


----------



## BasariStudios

szczaw said:


> BBC Core is here more resource hungry than HO diamond. Loading a bunch of BBC instruments causes big memory spike. I'm glad I didn't go for the Pro version. Play is also much more stable.


Exactly. BBC SO Pro is way more ANYTHING hungry than HS Diamond by 10 fold.
HS Diamond hasn't locked my system yet but BBC SO Pro does with few tracks (i9 10900K)


----------



## BasariStudios

Wlad said:


> I have all my tracks in cubase disabled, and I only enable those articulations and instruments that are used in the current project. I dont think I ever came close to 64gb. Most of the time I'm hovering around 30gb.
> 
> That's where you are wrong Jimmy. Enabling the track only takes 2-3 seconds and template loading times are much shorter.


Exactly, same here, the template has every possible HS Diamond
articulation but all disabled, it takes a second to load.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

BasariStudios said:


> Exactly, same here, the template has every possible HS Diamond
> articulation but all disabled, it takes a second to load.


But when you’re having to load 50+ tracks of HO Diamond for a project(s) it adds up pretty quick.....especially with multiple mic positions as I’ve discovered. I loved working on just the MacBook (still do for certain projects), but since updating the Windows slave, I just want to have HO and BBCSO loaded and ready.

One thing I’m wondering....is it possible to disable individual Play instances within VEPro? Hhmmmmm.


----------



## Audio Birdi

Jeremy Spencer said:


> But when you’re having to load 50+ tracks of HO Diamond for a project(s) it adds up pretty quick.....especially with multiple mic positions as I’ve discovered. I loved working on just the MacBook (still do for certain projects), but since updating the Windows slave, I just want to have HO and BBCSO loaded and ready.
> 
> One thing I’m wondering....is it possible to disable individual Play instances within VEPro? Hhmmmmm.


It's possible but you have to setup automation within VEP to enable / disable specific tracks with their automation mapping feature.


----------



## Wlad

Jeremy Spencer said:


> But when you’re having to load 50+ tracks of HO Diamond for a project(s) it adds up pretty quick.....especially with multiple mic positions as I’ve discovered. I loved working on just the MacBook (still do for certain projects), but since updating the Windows slave, I just want to have HO and BBCSO loaded and ready.
> 
> One thing I’m wondering....is it possible to disable individual Play instances within VEPro? Hhmmmmm.


I ditched slave and VEP for this work flow. It's low maintenance and problem free for me. But to get back to your quedtion, I'm not surs you can disable the track in VEP the same way you could in cubase. Cubase stores all the track's settings, plugin settings, insert, sends, automations... of the disabled track, and loads it all when you enable it.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Audio Birdi said:


> It's possible but you have to setup automation within VEP to enable / disable specific tracks with their automation mapping feature.


I suppose I could also just manually hit the enable/disable button for each instance. So many cool options these days.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Wlad said:


> I ditched slave and VEP for this work flow. It's low maintenance and problem free for me. But to get back to your quedtion, I'm not surs you can disable the track in VEP the same way you could in cubase. Cubase stores all the track's settings, plugin settings, insert, sends, automations... of the disabled track, and loads it all when you enable it.


Yes, I love working on a single machine, and also use that feature (in both Logic and Cubase). But with only 16GB Ram, I'm now at the mercy of the slave for HO Diamond....and hopefully SOUPUS.


----------



## szczaw

BasariStudios said:


> Exactly. BBC SO Pro is way more ANYTHING hungry than HS Diamond by 10 fold.
> HS Diamond hasn't locked my system yet but BBC SO Pro does with few tracks (i9 10900K)


Well, the main purpose of SF player is probably to serve as a dongle. BBC seems like a good library for balancing HO and other instruments.


----------



## BasariStudios

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Yes, I love working on a single machine, and also use that feature (in both Logic and Cubase). But with only 16GB Ram, I'm now at the mercy of the slave for HO Diamond....and hopefully SOUPUS.


I am at 64GB on an i9 10900k now and thinking of going 128, a lot of people are telling me.
I have a 5820k machine with 32gbb thrown around collecting dust and was
thinking to make it a slave but its a lot of hustle ii think.


----------



## John R Wilson

Just checked the East West site. Still no update on the release of it. Would be nice if East West could communicate what is happening and the current status with its release.


----------



## MauroPantin

I have 64gbs and never get to anywhere close to danger 90% usage territory. Disabling tracks works like a charm, just ask Trevor Morris


----------



## jneebz

John R Wilson said:


> with its release.


Pseudo-Not-Really-Haha-Oops-Psyche!-Release.


----------



## Jose7822

Obviously, it‘s all relative. My workflow may not suite other people, and vice versa. I personally am not one to load every single articulation a sample library as extensive as HO has to offer. Most of my tracks have around 5 articulations loaded as my go to. I then add more as needed.

Of course you could work with much less articulations loaded into RAM if you enable/disable tracks, bounce/freeze tracks, use one mic position first (then load the others afterwards), use VE Pro, etc. There are many ways to skin a cat.

That said, given how cheap RAM is these days, and given the ability to upgrade your machine without replacing the motherboard, then why not get more RAM? It certainly doesn’t hurt. Especially given that Jeremy wants to have two huge libraries loaded into his template. That’s why I think that, for HIS way of working, getting more RAM is the way to go.

IMO, it sucks when you have to bounce/freeze tracks back and forth every time you make a change to the arrangement. But that’s me .


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

So I loaded up my “test” template, consisting of HB/HS Diamond (4 mic’s) and BBCSO Pro (main mic mix), and came in around 32GB Lol. I just loaded the same articulations from HB and HS Gold that I used until now. I’m actually surprised, I thought I would use a lot more Ram. There’s still percussion, woodwinds, choirs, etc, but I figure well under 20GB for those. And then of course I can still host a ton of other lighter libraries directly on the Mac (master) and enable as needed. It will be interesting to see what the additional content from Opus will add, but I suspect it will be minimal.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jose7822 said:


> Obviously, it‘s all relative. My workflow may not suite other people, and vice versa. I personally am not one to load every single articulation a sample library as extensive as HO has to offer. Most of my tracks have around 5 articulations loaded as my go to. I then add more as needed.
> 
> Of course you could work with much less articulations loaded into RAM if you enable/disable tracks, bounce/freeze tracks, use one mic position first (then load the others afterwards), use VE Pro, etc. There are many ways to skin a cat.
> 
> That said, given how cheap RAM is these days, and given the ability to upgrade your machine without replacing the motherboard, then why not get more RAM? It certainly doesn’t hurt. Especially given that Jeremy wants to have two huge libraries loaded into his template. That’s why I think that, for HIS way of working, getting more RAM is the way to go.
> 
> IMO, it sucks when you have to bounce/freeze tracks back and forth every time you make a change to the arrangement. But that’s me .


I'm stuck at 64GB due to motherboard/CPU limitations. Next computer will have the option for more. I do have 2 computers now with 64GB each and am trying to setup a VEPro template. Or multiple templates. Actually, the VEPro part was easy. It is the which libraries should go on which computer that is the problem. My SSD's were fine for one computer, but trying to split them between two with various permissions (i.e. the insured ilok is on the main computer, so most VI's using the iLok need to be on the main computer) Fortunately, I mostly own Kontakt libraries, so splitting those is easy. It does look like I have 2 licenses for HWO Diamond, so I can put one on the second computer, or half on one, half on the other. So Strings and winds on one and brass and percussion on the other? I'm not sure I want to fill 2 SSD's with HWO. 

The whole thing is giving me a headache. How do those of you with 2 and 3 slaves do it?


----------



## Jose7822

I only use one machine with 64GB of RAM. I think using slaves overcomplicates things, as you are finding out. Especially when you upgrade later down the line, and you need to configure everything just so that you’re able to recall older projects. Not for me. But hopefully others using slaves will chime in.

BTW, originally I couldn’t load my template because it consumed more than 64GB of RAM. I had to lower PLAY’s Streaming engine to the lowest level in order to get it just under 64GB. Unfortunately my motherboard is already maxed out, so it looks like I‘ll need to build a system that supports 128GB.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

I am stuck with an i7 4790 and 32GB ram so freezing and purging is my only option for the foreseeable. Hoping a better purge function will ease that issue, but had to resign myself to the fact it is going to be a bit of a pain 😆


----------



## mr.vad0614

Do you think an Intel i7 5280k with 32GB RAM will be suffice to run HOOPUS? I decided to upgrade to Diamond for both Hollywood Orchestra and Hollywood Solo Instruments for the discounted price they are currently on sale for at the moment, especially as they will both be included in HOOPUS, so I am really hoping that this will significantly reduce the price of the upgrade path for owning the two when it comes out.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

mr.vad0614 said:


> Do you think an Intel i7 5280k with 32GB RAM will be suffice to run HOOPUS? I decided to upgrade to Diamond for both Hollywood Orchestra and Hollywood Solo Instruments for the discounted price they are currently on sale for at the moment, especially as they will both be included in HOOPUS, so I am really hoping that this will significantly reduce the price of the upgrade path for owning the two when it comes out.


See my post above yours. Doing as a few of the other guys have said and have your template deactivated, only activating the ones you want, and purging/freezing should work okay. I have some relatively big scores originally done in Silver that I'm swapping to Diamond and that's what I'm doing. It isn't too bad with one mic and keeping the articulation count low, but the extra mics are the killer. That's running everything on SSD and keeping the Streaming Sample Cache on 0 too.


----------



## mr.vad0614

StarfireBlack said:


> See my post above yours. Doing as a few of the other guys have said and have your template deactivated, only activating the ones you want, and purging/freezing should work okay. I have some relatively big scores originally done in Silver that I'm swapping to Diamond and that's what I'm doing. It isn't too bad with one mic and keeping the articulation count low, but the extra mics are the killer. That's running everything on SSD and keeping the Streaming Sample Cache on 0 too.


Thank you for that, I appreciate your feedback on this and am glad I'm not the alone, where it concerns having an old machine too, it still runs extremely well but what I am lacking is the ram and ssds which I am going to have to invest in, so I guess for the moment I will use my other collection of libraries that are less ram and cache intensive, and use HOOPUS once I upgrade to just one mic with a single articulation loaded and work it that way by layering the others on top of it, until I can upgrade my PC. I hope the new OPUS player will be more refined, being more cpu and ram friendly and light on resources! Just like what Orchestral Tools have done, with their libraries making them more laptop friendly.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

mr.vad0614 said:


> Thank you for that, I appreciate your feedback on this and am glad I'm not the alone, where it concerns having an old machine too, it still runs extremely well but what I am lacking is the ram and ssds which I am going to have to invest in, so I guess for the moment I will use my other collection of libraries that are less ram and cache intensive, and use HOOPUS once I upgrade to just one mic with a single articulation loaded and work it that way by layering the others on top of it, until I can upgrade my PC. I hope the new OPUS player will be more refined, being more cpu and ram friendly and light on resources! Just like what Orchestral Tools have done, with their libraries making them more laptop friendly.


Yeah, to upgrade my ram I would need a new board which obviously means different ram and cpu and just not financially viable at present. I ended up getting some sata pcie cards and buying a few SSD's with recently signing up to CC+.
OPUS will hopefully help a lot, but the freeze function is worth doing anyway depending how big projects are - I tend to do it with Spitfire Player, Synchron, SINE and Kontakt to some extent anyway as just keeps a good headroom for other stuff.


----------



## mr.vad0614

StarfireBlack said:


> Yeah, to upgrade my ram I would need a new board which obviously means different ram and cpu and just not financially viable at present. I ended up getting some sata pcie cards and buying a few SSD's with recently signing up to CC+.
> OPUS will hopefully help a lot, but the freeze function is worth doing anyway depending how big projects are - I tend to do it with Spitfire Player, Synchron, SINE and Kontakt to some extent anyway as just keeps a good headroom for other stuff.


Oh I see, I guess buying another motherboard just to change the cpu and ram, wouldn't be worth it as you might as well just buy another PC if that's the case. Like you I am trying to utilise what I have as I am in no position right now to buy a new PC, for me though I have an Asus X99 Pro motherboard which supports DDR4 RAM , so it does fortunately give me that option to easily upgrade my RAM and CPU if I wanted, but the X99 Pro only supports up to the 6th generation of Intel i7 Processors, which surprisingly still pricey. 

Do you think the SATA PCIe cards are faster in performance than say the Samsung SSD Evo or QVO hard drives? Yeah I'm really hoping that OPUS will be a lot more optimized to work on both slower and faster machines, I definitely agree with you where it concerns the freeze function and will probably have to try that out, to make my work flow more smoother. Thanks for that Starfire Black!


----------



## Lewis Emblack

mr.vad0614 said:


> Oh I see, I guess buying another motherboard just to change the cpu and ram, wouldn't be worth it as you might as well just buy another PC if that's the case. Like you I am trying to utilise what I have as I am in no position right now to buy a new PC, for me though I have an Asus X99 Pro motherboard which supports DDR4 RAM , so it does fortunately give me that option to easily upgrade my RAM and CPU if I wanted, but the X99 Pro only supports up to the 6th generation of Intel i7 Processors, which surprisingly still pricey.
> 
> Do you think the SATA PCIe cards are faster in performance than say the Samsung SSD Evo or QVO hard drives? Yeah I'm really hoping that OPUS will be a lot more optimized to work on both slower and faster machines, I definitely agree with you where it concerns the freeze function and will probably have to try that out, to make my work flow more smoother. Thanks for that Starfire Black!


No worries!
I'm stuck on DDR3, so reasoned I might as well wait to do a big upgrade as opposed to just a generation or 2.

I moved my SSD's onto the motherboard satas and put my HDD's onto the pcie cards as there was a bit of slowdown which was a more pronounced with SSD's.


----------



## Jose7822

mr.vad0614 said:


> ...but the X99 Pro only supports up to the 6th generation of Intel i7 Processors, which surprisingly still pricey.



You ain’t kidding about that. I too have an X99 chipset motherboard, with a 6-core Intel processor. The plan was to upgrade the CPU to a 10-core processor down the road, but those processors are still over $1,000 USD today!! This is the crap I hate about Intel. Thankfully AMD is a real competitor again, so my next machine will probably be AMD based.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Jose7822 said:


> You ain’t kidding about that. I too have an X99 chipset motherboard, with a 6-core Intel processor. The plan was to upgrade the CPU to a 10-core processor down the road, but those processors are still over $1,000 USD today!! This is the crap I hate about Intel. Thankfully AMD is a real competitor again, so my next machine will probably be AMD based.


That's crazy! The i9 10900K (in Canada) is about $460 usd....I went with the i7 10700 and it only cost me $300.


----------



## Jose7822

Jeremy Spencer said:


> That's crazy! The i9 10900K (in Canada) is about $460 usd....I went with the i7 10700 and it only cost me $300.



Yeap!!

Today you can get a CPU with way more cores for the money. It makes no freaking sense.


----------



## Pier

Jose7822 said:


> Thankfully AMD is a real competitor again, so my next machine will probably be AMD based.


AMD is awesome. My Ryzen 3700X cost me about $350 USD (in Mexico) and it's a beast of a CPU.


----------



## jamieboo

mr.vad0614 said:


> Do you think an Intel i7 5280k with 32GB RAM will be suffice to run HOOPUS? I decided to upgrade to Diamond for both Hollywood Orchestra and Hollywood Solo Instruments for the discounted price they are currently on sale for at the moment, especially as they will both be included in HOOPUS, so I am really hoping that this will significantly reduce the price of the upgrade path for owning the two when it comes out.


This is exactly my setup - 5280k with 32GB RAM. But I have everything on SSDs too.
I can just about run my HO Diamond orchestral template, but the RAM is pretty much completely filled.
I do not deactivate anything. I have between 5 and 8 articulations for each orchestral instrument adding up to a total of maybe 25 instance of PLAY.
Single mic though!
Things work, but adding extra mics at the same time would be impossible!


----------



## BasariStudios

jamieboo said:


> This is exactly my setup - 5280k with 32GB RAM. But I have everything on SSDs too.
> I can just about run my HO Diamond orchestral template, but the RAM is pretty much completely filled.
> I do not deactivate anything. I have between 5 and 8 articulations for each orchestral instrument adding up to a total of maybe 25 instance of PLAY.
> Single mic though!
> Things work, but adding extra mics at the same time would be impossible!


Same set up here, just built an i9 10900k now and almost threw
my 5820k garbage but people here stopped me and gave me
ideas how i can use it and stuff. Now thinking to upgrade i9 to 128GB.


----------



## BasariStudios

mr.vad0614 said:


> o I am really hoping that this will significantly reduce the price of the upgrade path for owning the two when it comes out.


Don't hope too much. I think they will want a full HO as an upgrade path.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Well, over two weeks since the "release date", still no word from EW.


----------



## jaketanner

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Well, over two weeks since the "release date", still no word from EW.


it's not coming. LOL I just don't get why there is no communication from a large developer when they get everyone excited, then nothing. I get things happen, but communicate that, especially suck for those that bought Diamond to get the upgrade.


----------



## Evans

jaketanner said:


> it's not coming. LOL I just don't get why there is no communication from a large developer when they get everyone excited, then nothing. I get things happen, but communicate that, especially suck for those that bought Diamond to get the upgrade.


Imagine how confused you must be if you don't browse VI-Control.


----------



## AndyP

Gimme hopus Jo'anna
Hopus Jo'anna
Gimme hopus Jo'anna
'Fore the morning come
Gimme hopus Jo'anna
Hopus Jo'anna
Hopus before the morning come

When I heard the song for the first time I always understood dope. Only today I realized the true meaning.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

I saw a comment from EW on their fb page (someone asked how large Opus will be), they said 200-250GB for Diamond. I’m going to assume that’s just for the new content.


----------



## Audio Birdi

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I saw a comment from EW on their fb page (someone asked how large Opus will be), they said 200-250GB for Diamond. I’m going to assume that’s just for the new content.


It's a super duper new compression algorithm that condenses all of Diamond, old and new content, into 200-250GB


----------



## EgM

Audio Birdi said:


> It's a super duper new compression algorithm that condenses all of Diamond, old and new content, into 200-250GB


All articulations stripped and only marcato-sus and pizz across the board


----------



## Jose7822

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I saw a comment from EW on their fb page (someone asked how large Opus will be), they said 200-250GB for Diamond. I’m going to assume that’s just for the new content.



Yes, this is just for the new content. That’s been confirmed by Nick in his first post here a while back.


----------



## BasariStudios

They are still working on the Soup.


----------



## dzilizzi

BasariStudios said:


> They are still working on the Soup.


The longer it sits, the better it tastes. 

Oh, you weren't talking about real soup.


----------



## cqd

There's actually someone slurping soup five feet from me right now..I want to throw something at him..


----------



## Trash Panda

cqd said:


> There's actually someone slurping soup five feet from me right now..I want to throw something at him..


Sorry. I’ll stop.


----------



## szczaw

Do you reckon Opus is having a tad delayed launch ?


----------



## dzilizzi

szczaw said:


> Do you reckon Opus is having a tad delayed launch ?


Better than a delayed lunch....


----------



## Gerbil

cqd said:


> There's actually someone slurping soup five feet from me right now..I want to throw something at him..


I sense a library opportunity. Grab that mic and get recording.


----------



## Trash Panda

Gerbil said:


> I sense a library opportunity. Grab that mic and get recording.


Run it through some FM filters and you’ll have the next big EDM library.


----------



## szczaw

dzilizzi said:


> Better than a delayed lunch....


Sorry folks


----------



## janila

Can Diamond mic loading be automated in PLAY? And I specifically mean loading, not mixing. Or can PLAY purging be automated? My HO Gold is on a VEP slave and I’m trying to find an interim solution where I could upgrade Gold patches to Diamond and get accustomed to the mics, divisis and bow change legatos but RAM is almost maxed on the slave. OPUS is going to require rebuilding anyway and with new player and purging it’s hard to predict the efficiency so I’d rather do a simple transition to Diamond before OPUS.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

janila said:


> Can Diamond mic loading be automated in PLAY? And I specifically mean loading, not mixing. Or can PLAY purging be automated? My HO Gold is on a VEP slave and I’m trying to find an interim solution where I could upgrade Gold patches to Diamond and get accustomed to the mics, divisis and bow change legatos but RAM is almost maxed on the slave. OPUS is going to require rebuilding anyway and with new player and purging it’s hard to predict the efficiency so I’d rather do a simple transition to Diamond before OPUS.


I was in the same predicament. I ended up just having a new slave PC built instead of messing around. I also recently took advantage of the $49 upgrades from Hollywood Brass/Strings to Diamond. I'm eating my words now....the extra mic positions are absolutely wonderful. And trust me, you'll need a lot more Ram that what you're used to.


----------



## buzzripper

Do you think the $49 upgrade price (from Gold) will be around for a while? Just wondering if it might actually stay at that price, especially once Opus is released....


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

buzzripper said:


> Do you think the $49 upgrade price (from Gold) will be around for a while? Just wondering if it might actually stay at that price, especially once Opus is released....


Just a hunch, but I think HO may be discontinued and replaced by Opus. That's probably why it's so cheap.


----------



## Markrs

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Just a hunch, but I think HO may be discontinued and replaced by Opus. That's probably why it's so cheap.


I agree with that. Like you I feel Opus is the replacement and they will stop selling Hollywood Orchestra both gold and diamond once it is released.


----------



## cloudbuster

How much sense would it make commercially not to continue with those 3 different tiers of HO?
Maybe they just repackage the whole shebang - every library (Silver-Gold-Diamond) comes with the new Opus player (instead of Play) but only the more extensive Gold and Diamond include the new samples + Orchestrator and only Diamond has all the mics - like before.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cloudbuster said:


> How much sense would it make commercially not to continue with those 3 different tiers of HO?
> Maybe they just repackage the whole shebang - every library (Silver-Gold-Diamond) comes with the new Opus player (instead of Play) but only the more extensive Gold and Diamond include the new samples + Orchestrator and only Diamond has all the mics - like before.


IMO, it will just be Opus Gold or Diamond. What I'm curious about though, is if you'll still be able to just buy the individual sections.


----------



## BasariStudios

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Just a hunch, but I think HO may be discontinued and replaced by Opus. That's probably why it's so cheap.


I think Hoopus will be discontinued soon too.


----------



## yellow_lupine

I got same info from EW support:

"In an effort to provide a more comprehensive, fully functional software release, that has been delayed somewhat. We're very close to release, but there are additional new features and content we are adding that we think everyone will be very excited about. In the meantime, check out our new short film Introducing Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition to learn much more about this very special release -  - and stay tuned for the imminent release of the official trailer, walkthroughs, and exclusive sneak peaks."


Asking them about the orchestrator and the possibility to purchase individual sections they told this:

"It's an element built into the Opus engine. The 'Opus' edition will be the full orchestra - not available to purchase in sections."


I am quite disappointed by the impossibility to purchase separate sections, since I am not interested into buying the full orchestra... To me the awaiting ends here, I will pass.


----------



## szczaw

yellow_lupine said:


> I am quite disappointed by the impossibility to purchase separate sections, since I am not interested into buying the full orchestra... To me the awaiting ends here, I will pass.


You may still be able to buy old HO. Keeping HO around could be useful, since OPUS will most likely only use the most resource hungry patches.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

yellow_lupine said:


> "It's an element built into the Opus engine. The 'Opus' edition will be the full orchestra - not available to purchase in sections."


This is very disappointing. If the price is quite high, it may finally push me away from continuing future orchestral purchases from EW.

At very least, I hope hope EW will consider upgrade options for those who don't own all four HO Diamond sections.


----------



## pistacchio

Will Opus contain solo instruments?


----------



## Geomir

pistacchio said:


> Will Opus contain solo instruments?


Yes, it will include the Hollywood solo violin, solo cello and harp.

Of course it will also include all the solo woodwinds and brass instruments from the Hollywood Orchestra.


----------



## Tremendouz

Geomir said:


> solo violin, solo cello


And these instruments no one really wants in 2021 will probably add 200 bucks to the price


----------



## cqd

So buying the harp a couple of weeks ago may have been a waste?.. meh..


----------



## Tremendouz

cqd said:


> So buying the harp a couple of weeks ago may have been a waste?.. meh..


If you plan to buy the OPUS upgrade, I'd say yes. As far as I know you don't need any of the solo instruments to qualify for the upgrade (the price of which we STILL have zero clue about 2 weeks after the assumed release date)


----------



## cqd

Tremendouz said:


> If you plan to buy the OPUS upgrade, I'd say yes. As far as I know you don't need any of the solo instruments to qualify for the upgrade (the price of which we STILL have zero clue about 2 weeks after the assumed release date)


Goddammit..


----------



## Geomir

Tremendouz said:


> And these instruments no one really wants in 2021 will probably add 200 bucks to the price


True. As much as I respect the good old EWQLSO and EWHO as excellent value-for-money orchestral sample libraries, the solo cello, solo violin and solo harp are... just far below anyone's expectations.

Actually anything else is a better choice.


----------



## Ashermusic

I actually like the solo harp a lot. The violin and cello blend well with the rest of the orchestra but otherwise, not that great.


----------



## LynxUK

yellow_lupine said:


> I got same info from EW support:
> 
> "In an effort to provide a more comprehensive, fully functional software release, that has been delayed somewhat. We're very close to release, but there are additional new features and content we are adding that we think everyone will be very excited about. In the meantime, check out our new short film Introducing Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition to learn much more about this very special release -  - and stay tuned for the imminent release of the official trailer, walkthroughs, and exclusive sneak peaks."



Hmmm, the fact they mention they are still adding stuff is worrying. Being a software programmer, that just screams "feature creep". The problem with this, is that there is a danger that development is led down a never ending Rabbit hole, leading to "vaporware", or a release that is broken (last minute features not fully tested within the existing framework, causing fundimental issues). Obviously this release has been a long time in the making, so to be adding features at this stage, seems....slightly missmanaged, for sake of a better word.


----------



## cqd

Ashermusic said:


> I actually like the solo harp a lot. The violin and cello blend well with the rest of the orchestra but otherwise, not that great.


Yeah, I'd heard it was only ok, but I nearly prefer it to cineharp and the spitfire one Tbh..


----------



## John R Wilson

Been almost 3 weeks now since the NAMM video. It would be quite nice if their could actually be some kind of update about this.


----------



## MauroPantin

LynxUK said:


> Hmmm, the fact they mention they are still adding stuff is worrying. Being a software programmer, that just screams "feature creep". The problem with this, is that there is a danger that development is led down a never ending Rabbit hole, leading to "vaporware", or a release that is broken (last minute features not fully tested within the existing framework, causing fundimental issues). Obviously this release has been a long time in the making, so to be adding features at this stage, seems....slightly missmanaged, for sake of a better word.


I doubt it is new features. Otherwise you show the product as is at NAMM and then delay it saying you are adding those new features and maybe you even say what they are and why it is worth the wait. 

I think it was simply not ready to launch, probably found some terrible last-minute bug. Nothing wrong with it, it happens. But I understand how they could be reluctant to say it out loud, given PLAY's reputation. It may have been warranted for version 1, but even though it is no longer the case 5 versions later you still read people completely shitting on the engine online. They can't say it because otherwise OPUS will be associated with instability or bugs even before it's out. So they say nothing. 

The lack of communication and/or vague "updates" is not a mistake, it's likely to be the best thing for them right now if that is indeed the situation.


----------



## j0fer

MauroPantin said:


> I doubt it is new features. Otherwise you show the product as is at NAMM and then delay it saying you are adding those new features and maybe you even say what they are and why it is worth the wait.
> 
> I think it was simply not ready to launch, probably found some terrible last-minute bug. Nothing wrong with it, it happens. But I understand how they could be reluctant to say it out loud, given PLAY's reputation. It may have been warranted for version 1, but even though it is no longer the case 5 versions later you still read people completely shitting on the engine online. They can't say it because otherwise OPUS will be associated with instability or bugs even before it's out. So they say nothing.
> 
> The lack of communication and/or vague "updates" is not a mistake, it's likely to be the best thing for them right now if that is indeed the situation.


I haven't seen it put forth, but could it be licensing issues? Usually that stuff is hammered out at the start, but is it a possibility that Sonuscore and EastWest are having issues with some final details?


----------



## MauroPantin

j0fer said:


> I haven't seen it put forth, but could it be licensing issues? Usually that stuff is hammered out at the start, but is it a possibility that Sonuscore and EastWest are having issues with some final details?


I had not thought of that until now. Maybe? There's no way to tell, really. Whatever is happening, EW does not believe it to be in their best interest to let the customers know, so we'll continue guessing until it's out and then we'll keep guessing because I doubt we'll ever know what really caused that last minute NAMM switcharoo


----------



## j0fer

Continuing that (totally wild supposition) line of thinking...that kind of issue, if not resolved, could conceivably prevent the release of OPUS at all. That would constitute a pretty good reason for not wanting to put it out there. Of course, I'd hope not I'm a CC+ subscriber. Love it, love the products, no complaints with EW/QL at all.


----------



## Ashermusic

j0fer said:


> Continuing that (totally wild supposition) line of thinking...that kind of issue, if not resolved, could conceivably prevent the release of OPUS at all. That would constitute a pretty good reason for not wanting to put it out there. Of course, I'd hope not I'm a CC+ subscriber. Love it, love the products, no complaints with EW/QL at all.


Opus will be released.


----------



## Braveheart

It’s so funny to have all those guesses about what is happening. Maybe the main programmer has been abducted by aliens and they are still hoping for his quick release to finish the product.


----------



## MauroPantin

It's fun to speculate. But again, my bet is on some awful last-minute bug that came up during beta testing. It's the most simple and boring explanation for the delay, "Occam's razor" and all that.


----------



## szczaw

They got caught up in tweaking the 400th Orchestrator preset.


----------



## cloudbuster

The Mexican Musician's Union sued them for $320 million over the Mariachi patch in Hollywood brass.


----------



## BasariStudios

cloudbuster said:


> The Mexican Musician's Union sued them for $320 million over the Mariachi patch in Hollywood brass.


Wrong! It was the one from Guatemala...anyways...
Wake me Up!


----------



## Jose7822

Actually, EW got their OPUS source code stolen by a hacker who left a ransom note with demands that EW needs to comply with within 48 hours. That’s what’s happening.


----------



## j0fer

Ashermusic said:


> Opus will be released.


I agree, but what else is the Internet good for besides cat videos and conspiracy theories.


----------



## Pier

MauroPantin said:


> It's fun to speculate. But again, my bet is on some awful last-minute bug that came up during beta testing. It's the most simple and boring explanation for the delay, "Occam's razor" and all that.


It's also likely that marketing wanted to release something on NAMM well knowing the product wouldn't be ready.


----------



## BasariStudios

j0fer said:


> I agree, but what else is the Internet good for besides cat videos and conspiracy theories.


And Soup too.


----------



## szczaw

j0fer said:


> I agree, but what else is the Internet good for besides cat videos and conspiracy theories.


Goofing, bitching and moaning ?


----------



## shawnsingh

Jose7822 said:


> Actually, EW got their OPUS source code stolen by a hacker who left a ransom note with demands that EW needs to comply with within 48 hours. That’s what’s happening.


Wouldn't this have taken only... well... 48 hours?


----------



## Lazer42

MauroPantin said:


> I doubt it is new features. Otherwise you show the product as is at NAMM and then delay it saying you are adding those new features and maybe you even say what they are and why it is worth the wait.
> 
> I think it was simply not ready to launch, probably found some terrible last-minute bug. Nothing wrong with it, it happens. But I understand how they could be reluctant to say it out loud, given PLAY's reputation. It may have been warranted for version 1, but even though it is no longer the case 5 versions later you still read people completely shitting on the engine online. They can't say it because otherwise OPUS will be associated with instability or bugs even before it's out. So they say nothing.
> 
> The lack of communication and/or vague "updates" is not a mistake, it's likely to be the best thing for them right now if that is indeed the situation.


I really think this has a very high likelihood of being the truth. 

For example, listen to what is said about PLAY in this video, and in particular, read through the comments. Even now, in 2021, a _ton _of people still think PLAY is nearly as buggy and unreliable as it was over 10 years ago. I think they may fear that if the launch - or even an initial demo - is not _perfect _then they'll never recover.


----------



## Petrucci

Maybe they are tweaking old sample pool patches for increased playability... - I wouldn't mind this, for woodwinds especially))


----------



## AudioLoco

Just release it for Kontakt and be done already....


----------



## I like music

Petrucci said:


> Maybe they are tweaking old sample pool patches for increased playability... - I wouldn't mind this, for woodwinds especially))


Probably the main thing I'm interested in. I think the woods had real potential. They could be a few small tweaks away from entering back into _many_ a template.


----------



## j0fer

MauroPantin said:


> I doubt it is new features. Otherwise you show the product as is at NAMM and then delay it saying you are adding those new features and maybe you even say what they are and why it is worth the wait.
> 
> I think it was simply not ready to launch, probably found some terrible last-minute bug. Nothing wrong with it, it happens. But I understand how they could be reluctant to say it out loud, given PLAY's reputation. It may have been warranted for version 1, but even though it is no longer the case 5 versions later you still read people completely shitting on the engine online. They can't say it because otherwise OPUS will be associated with instability or bugs even before it's out. So they say nothing.
> 
> The lack of communication and/or vague "updates" is not a mistake, it's likely to be the best thing for them right now if that is indeed the situation.


If I would have paid attention and read this response I wouldn't have posted my (even playful) postulate. I think you have the closest answer in the whole thread. With the incredibly short temperament and incredibly long memory of the Internet, they probably don't dare release even an honest, humble truth.


----------



## I like music

MauroPantin said:


> I doubt it is new features. Otherwise you show the product as is at NAMM and then delay it saying you are adding those new features and maybe you even say what they are and why it is worth the wait.
> 
> I think it was simply not ready to launch, probably found some terrible last-minute bug. Nothing wrong with it, it happens. But I understand how they could be reluctant to say it out loud, given PLAY's reputation. It may have been warranted for version 1, but even though it is no longer the case 5 versions later you still read people completely shitting on the engine online. They can't say it because otherwise OPUS will be associated with instability or bugs even before it's out. So they say nothing.
> 
> The lack of communication and/or vague "updates" is not a mistake, it's likely to be the best thing for them right now if that is indeed the situation.


Now that I read this, I'm more convinced that this is the scenario than any other. Wishing them the best of luck if it is the case, and hoping to hear how it sounds soon.


----------



## Ashermusic

AudioLoco said:


> Just release it for Kontakt and be done already....


With the problems I am having lately with Kontakt , no thank you.


----------



## AudioLoco

Ashermusic said:


> With the problems I am having lately with Kontakt , no thank you.


0 problems since I got it, what's going on with it on your system Asher?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

AudioLoco said:


> Just release it for Kontakt and be done already....


I'm still using several EW libraries in Kontakt (RA, Stormdrum 1&2, Percussive Adventures, etc). Fortunately, the pre-Play versions are compatible, even with Kontakt 6.


----------



## Jose7822

shawnsingh said:


> Wouldn't this have taken only... well... 48 hours?


Right.

However, EW decided not to heed to the hacker’s demands and instead hired professionals to investigate the matter.


- P.S. Unless you follow gaming news or know about CD Project Red’s latest fiasco, you won’t get the joke :-P.


----------



## Zero&One

MauroPantin said:


> I think it was simply not ready to launch


The percussion hadn't even been recorded at the start of the year. So it certainly wasn't ready


----------



## MauroPantin

Zero&One said:


> The percussion hadn't even been recorded at the start of the year. So it certainly wasn't ready


Huh... Interesting. This may take a while, then.


----------



## Laddy

MauroPantin said:


> Huh... Interesting. This may take a while, then.


I think it was a joke


----------



## dzilizzi

Laddy said:


> I think it was a joke


Might not have been. With COVID shutdowns closing studios, they could have initially planned on a Fall 2020 release, had recording sessions cancelled, and had problems with studio/musician availability since. I'm sure there are a lot of delays in the industry depending on how far out these places are booked. And how to get people's schedules to sync up once the delays have happened.

But I think it is more likely they found a major bug at the last minute. Or maybe a combination of the two?


----------



## EgM

Many things possible for this delay, like @dzilizzi said, studios closed, musicians not available, programmers/their family sick with covid, etc.

Or perhaps they wanted to make the Opus engine M1 ready and the programmer resigned after an hour of using Xcode.


----------



## Wlad

The one question we should ask then... What the hell are we seeing and hearing in the introduction video if the samples are not recorded and OPUS is not working??? The real orchestra, fake app mockup... probably. And some people here are still defending EW. Have a spine, you guys.


----------



## shawnsingh

Jose7822 said:


> Right.
> 
> However, EW decided not to heed to the hacker’s demands and instead hired professionals to investigate the matter.
> 
> 
> - P.S. Unless you follow gaming news or know about CD Project Red’s latest fiasco, you won’t get the joke :-P.



Ah, I understand now =). been a while since I've followed gaming stuff.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Wlad said:


> The one question we should ask then... What the hell are we seeing and hearing in the introduction video if the samples are not recorded and OPUS is not working??? The real orchestra, fake app mockup... probably. And some people here are still defending EW. Have a spine, you guys.


Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Wouldn't they at least want us to hear it and give us something to look forward to?


----------



## AndyP

With every week of delay, I save money. In this respect, it doesn't affect me that much.
The anticipation remains and OPUS will come at some point.

It would not be so good if OPUS is released at the same time as other still unknown libraries that then require either a decision or a thick wallet.


----------



## Geomir

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I'm still using several EW libraries in Kontakt (RA, Stormdrum 1&2, Percussive Adventures, etc). Fortunately, the pre-Play versions are compatible, even with Kontakt 6.


EW Ra with Kontakt? But why? Have you tried it with Play 6? The scripted Legato (and Portamento) embedded in Play 6 can do small miracles with EW Ra's bowed and wind instruments, especially if you increase the reverb. It works really well for a non-true legato.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Geomir said:


> EW Ra with Kontakt? But why? Have you tried it with Play 6? The scripted Legato (and Portamento) embedded in Play 6 can do small miracles with EW Ra's bowed and wind instruments, especially if you increase the reverb. It works really well for a non-true legato.


I have the Play version as well (on the slave via Composer Cloud), but use it with Kontakt on my MacBook. I didn’t upgrade it to the Play version years ago.


----------



## dzilizzi

EgM said:


> Or perhaps they wanted to make the Opus engine M1 ready and the programmer resigned after an hour of using Xcode.


LOL! How many developers are going to give up on Apple, at least until they can afford a new machine? Will it even run on the machines with M1 chips? Aren't they all 16GB RAM or less?


----------



## dzilizzi

Wlad said:


> The one question we should ask then... What the hell are we seeing and hearing in the introduction video if the samples are not recorded and OPUS is not working??? The real orchestra, fake app mockup... probably. And some people here are still defending EW. Have a spine, you guys.


If it is a problem with programming, it could be it runs fine on their computers and it wasn't until it was used on something else that they had problems.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Maybe they are putting the finishing touches on the new Flux Capacitor that will be included in the Opus engine.


----------



## Wlad

dzilizzi said:


> If it is a problem with programming, it could be it runs fine on their computers and it wasn't until it was used on something else that they had problems.


I get you, but I really doubt it. After more than 10 years and 6 versions of PLAY, it would be really unprofessional and dumb of them to realize their software is not working as it should on other platforms the day before release. There are really no excuses left for them to act as they do, and their behavior should not be tolerated.


----------



## Petrucci

I like music said:


> Probably the main thing I'm interested in. I think the woods had real potential. They could be a few small tweaks away from entering back into _many_ a template.



Yes, actually the woodwinds are quite good, even the Main mics are fine (I've seen people say that Mid mics are better but I like Main mics too), it just takes more time to put a part down with em.


----------



## I like music

Petrucci said:


> Yes, actually the woodwinds are quite good, even the Main mics are fine (I've seen people say that Mid mics are better but I like Main mics too), it just takes more time to put a part down with em.


I only had gold. Compared them with Berlin. Not as good in the transitions but the tone felt fine! So yeah, keen to see if they've added anything!


----------



## Geomir

The best thing about the woodwinds imho is that this has to be the most complete collection, giving us every possible orchestral woodwind instrument (other than Saxophone of course):

- Flute 1, Flute 2, Piccolo Flute, Alto Flute, Bass Flute
- Oboe, English Horn, Bassoon, Contrabassoon
- Clarinet, E_b_ Clarinet, Bass Clarinet, Contrabass Clarinet

I mean, who else is giving you Bass Flute and Contrabass Clarinet in that price range?

But I cannot agree they sound nice, even if I want to love them. I really do.

The legato is really not good. It sounds like it's some sort of beta version. The transitions are just... like many woodwinds are playing together mixing with each other. You can lower the individual legato volume (between -6 db and -12 db is needed for most woodwind instruments!) to instantly improve things, but still if your compare it i.e. with Spitfire, Orchestral Tools or VSL's various woodwinds, there is no way you will choose them over anything else.

In some cases I even preferred using EWQLSO various woodwinds, most of them sound better to my ears.

Since (as people mentioned already) the woodwinds have a beautiful tone, I really hope that if they properly reprogram them (especially the legato transitions), we can have a very nice result. I cannot wait for that.


----------



## Zero&One

Laddy said:


> I think it was a joke


I wish, it was EW that posted it on FB. I think I posted on page 56


----------



## EgM

I don't get some of the angry posts in this thread, sure it's delayed, lack of communication, etc.

But if some of you bought upgrades to EWHO Diamond or CCPlus based on the marketing hype, that's totally on you...

It'll be available when it's good and ready.


----------



## Trax

EgM said:


> I don't get some of the angry posts in this thread, sure it's delayed, lack of communication, etc.
> 
> But if some of you bought upgrades to EWHO Diamond or CCPlus based on the marketing hype, that's totally on you...
> 
> It'll be available when it's good and ready.


Why would it be? There was a set date for OPUS's release. It's not like people were gambling and pulling dates out of their imagination.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

EgM said:


> But if some of you bought upgrades to EWHO Diamond or CCPlus based on the marketing hype, that's totally on you...
> 
> It'll be available when it's good and ready.


Let me guess....you work for EW's marketing department?


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

EgM said:


> But if some of you bought upgrades to EWHO Diamond or CCPlus based on the marketing hype, that's totally on you...


But if we bought it because EW intentionally gave out false information (/refused to update what they said) that's totally on them...


----------



## EgM

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Let me guess....you work for EW's marketing department?


Absolutely not  I just don't understand the fascination of buying something that hasn't been released, reviewed or tried by many others...


----------



## BasariStudios

EgM said:


> I don't get some of the angry posts in this thread, sure it's delayed, lack of communication, etc.
> 
> But if some of you bought upgrades to EWHO Diamond or CCPlus based on the marketing hype, that's totally on you...
> 
> It'll be available when it's good and ready.


Yes, tell us more about it please. If you don't have skin in the game
don't waste your time commenting somewhere where you don't need to.


----------



## EgM

BasariStudios said:


> Yes, tell us more about it please. If you don't have skin in the game
> don't waste your time commenting somewhere where you don't need to.



I have skin in the game as an owner of EWHO Diamond. If you can't handle the internet go have a Snickers.

If you disagree with my opinion, that's entirely fine.


----------



## dzilizzi

EgM said:


> I have skin in the game as an owner of EWHO Diamond. If you can't handle the internet go have a Snickers.
> 
> If you disagree with my opinion, that's entirely fine.


Wait, Snickers are an option? Finally we are talking chocolate. Over 2K posts before it even gets mentioned. No wonder everyone is grumpy.


----------



## Ashermusic

AudioLoco said:


> 0 problems since I got it, what's going on with it on your system Asher?


I have a Logic project with several Kontakt instance. I quit it, reopen later and it crashes and the log says it’s Kontakt. Happens more now than a couple of years ago.


----------



## jaketanner

Geomir said:


> I mean, who else is giving you Bass Flute and Contrabass Clarinet in that price range?


Spitfire Studio Winds pro has them...and they're not expensive. Granted not perhaps the best sounding because of the room, but nevertheless...useable.


----------



## Geomir

jaketanner said:


> Spitfire Studio Winds pro has them...and they're not expensive. Granted not perhaps the best sounding because of the room, but nevertheless...useable.


I know, fair enough, but considering that they cost more than the whole EWHO Diamond (during one of those almost-permanent EW sales), I wouldn't put them in the same price range.


----------



## jaketanner

Geomir said:


> I know, fair enough, but considering that they cost more than the whole EWHO Diamond (during one of those almost-permanent EW sales), I wouldn't put them in the same price range.


True. Pro is $399. They may include it at 40% off soon during their next sale. But I still think it’s more. Lmao.


----------



## Geomir

jaketanner said:


> True. Pro is $399. They may include it at 40% off soon during their next sale. But I still think it’s more. Lmao.


Let's see. Everyone loves sales!


----------



## ZeroZero

Have not read the whole thread. I saw the GUI info on EW, could not see any way to control vibrato, on the fly. Can't see any real improvements on the GUI, looks like Play with a faceover. Enlighten me please!


----------



## ZeroZero

Ashermusic said:


> I have a Logic project with several Kontakt instance. I quit it, reopen later and it crashes and the log says it’s Kontakt. Happens more now than a couple of years ago.


There was an update for Kontakt a couple of days ago. Cant speak for LOgic, but previously it was crashing Cubase


----------



## Piotrek K.

ZeroZero said:


> Have not read the whole thread. I saw the GUI info on EW, could not see any way to control vibrato, on the fly. Can't see any real improvements on the GUI, looks like Play with a faceover. Enlighten me please!


You are mostly right, it looks like reskined PLAY . But if you look at the screenshots you will notice "articulation" submenu etc. What it does? How it looks? No idea, only speculations since May 2020 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## dzilizzi

ZeroZero said:


> Have not read the whole thread. I saw the GUI info on EW, could not see any way to control vibrato, on the fly. Can't see any real improvements on the GUI, looks like Play with a faceover. Enlighten me please!


But it is so _pretty_! How can you not like it????


----------



## BasariStudios

jaketanner said:


> True. Pro is $399. They may include it at 40% off soon during their next sale. But I still think it’s more. Lmao.


Isn't pro 399 today?


----------



## BasariStudios

dzilizzi said:


> But it is so _pretty_! How can you not like it????


They will also give us an 8k version Image of it.


----------



## LynxUK

ZeroZero said:


> Have not read the whole thread. I saw the GUI info on EW, could not see any way to control vibrato, on the fly. Can't see any real improvements on the GUI, looks like Play with a faceover. Enlighten me please!


If it did end up as a Play faceover, this 120 page thread, would double that in a day lol! It would certainly be a huge troll after all the build up.


----------



## Wlad

LynxUK said:


> If it did end up as a Play faceover, this 120 page thread, would double that in a day lol! It would certainly be a huge troll after all the build up.


I already consider this to be a huge troll.


----------



## jaketanner

BasariStudios said:


> Isn't pro 399 today?


yeah, when I posted no one knew what the sale would be...unfortunately it's only strings.


----------



## j0fer

With the coding it would take to implement the listed features: library splitting (load only what you want), play while the library is still loading, scaling GUI elements, creating API calls between itself and Orchestrator - it won't be a sneaky re-skin of Play. It would take more development to try to make existing code work with all the new features than to just re-write it.


----------



## BasariStudios

Here you go:


----------



## Tremendouz

BasariStudios said:


> Here you go:


I think it's safe to say at this point that either the upgrade price will be significantly lower than buying it normally, or that this is some sort of cruel joke of a marketing tactic to make people buy the full orchestra in panic.


----------



## FireGS

I ducked out of this thread like 30 pages ago. What's the latest? Anything?


----------



## Wlad

FireGS said:


> I ducked out of this thread like 30 pages ago. What's the latest? Anything?


Nothin'


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

FireGS said:


> I ducked out of this thread like 30 pages ago. What's the latest? Anything?


Yesterday was three weeks since the "official release" date. Other than Nick commenting on a few things (who said Opus would be released by the end of the first quarter), not a peep from EW.


----------



## Wlad

I think I'm gonna skip OPUS and go for the Modern Scoring Strings instead. It has a big glowing knob in the middle... which is a no-brainer for me.


----------



## BasariStudios

Wlad said:


> I think I'm gonna skip OPUS and go for the Modern Scoring Strings instead. It has a big glowing knob in the middle... which is a no-brainer for me.


Same here. Anyways i have HO Diamond which is still useful, 
use the money to bring a different Color.


----------



## Wlad

BasariStudios said:


> Same here. Anyways i have HO Diamond which is still useful,
> use the money to bring a different Color.


Bought 8dio Century Brass Bundle on a great deal, also started collecting Junkie XL low brass sections "a la carte", all in order to move away from Hollywood Brass. I think Modern Scoring Strings will be the library that will help me move away from Hollywood Strings. Other sections have already been replaced a long time ago. I will be using Hollywood Orchestra as it is, here and there. I'm certain OPUS will not bring any dramatic changes to the table.


----------



## BasariStudios

Wlad said:


> also started collecting Junkie XL low brass sections "a la carte", all in order to move away from Hollywood Brass.


Same here, started with the 12 Horns, that Brass is amazing!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

If anyone needs to compete their HO Diamond collection, everyplugin.com has sections on sale for $125....or HO Diamond for $335.


----------



## John R Wilson

Just checked site. Has their still been no update whatsoever?


----------



## szczaw

How's Stormdrum 2 pro ? Only $125 but has time been kind to it ?


----------



## Johnny

szczaw said:


> How's Stormdrum 2 pro ? Only $125 but has time been kind to it ?


I think so, I still use SD2 regardless. There are great samples in that collection, and a great sample will always be a great sample! Some of my personal favorites are: (Including SD1 content) Trailer Toms, Thunder Ensemble, Brushed Drums, Taiko Ambient, Vietnamese Shakers n Rattles and a lot of the Sound Design Percussion folder. I personally couldn't write without them! And even using libraries like Damage, I layer in SD2 content just because I can't get away from it- SD2 just sounds great in a mix!


----------



## szczaw

Johnny said:


> I think so, I still use SD2 regardless. There are great samples in that collection, and a great sample will always be a great sample! Some of my personal favorites are: (Including SD1 content) Trailer Toms, Thunder Ensemble, Brushed Drums, Taiko Ambient, Vietnamese Shakers n Rattles and a lot of the Sound Design Percussion folder. I personally couldn't write without them! And even using libraries like Damage, I layer in SD2 content just because I can't get away from it- SD2 just sounds great in a mix!


Thanks for the feedback !


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

szczaw said:


> How's Stormdrum 2 pro ? Only $125 but has time been kind to it ?


I still use it, has great epic percussion. Don’t know if I’d pay $125 though.


----------



## szczaw

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I still use it, has great epic percussion. Don’t know if I’d pay $125 though.


What do you think it's worth ?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

szczaw said:


> What do you think it's worth ?


I’d pay $125 for a SD 2&3 bundle.


----------



## szczaw

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I’d pay $125 for a SD 2&3 bundle.


That'd be nice !


----------



## BasariStudios

Nothing really...thought just to bump it up, won't hurt.


----------



## lp59burst

BasariStudios said:


> Nothing really...thought just to bump it up, won't hurt.


I hate it when people do that... no, wait... argh...


----------



## szczaw

Nothing here but instead you can get some dopamine hit at the audiobro site.


----------



## BasariStudios

lp59burst said:


> I hate it when people do that... no, wait... argh...


MSS Thread is over...we are coming back home.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Guys....I think we've been ghosted 👻


----------



## Zedcars

I left this thread ages ago...I'm guessing HOOPUS is still not out yet? Any time frame or are we all in the dark?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Zedcars said:


> I left this thread ages ago...I'm guessing HOOPUS is still not out yet? Any time frame or are we all in the dark?


I think we're in the dark....nearly a month now since the "release date", and still not a word from EW.


----------



## Zedcars

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I think we're in the dark....nearly a month now since the "release date", and still not a word from EW.


How strange. Could be some really big issue they need to overcome. I guess there's been lots of speculation already, so I won't add to that.


----------



## Wlad

We've been, quite possibly, bamboozled.


----------



## Fa

well... it's just for fun to keep this thread alive. LOL even if it's a gift to EW they didn't deserve...

Anyway:

- H Choirs were announced 1 year before release, expected for "fall" released late winter, after strong campaign of subscriptions in C.Cloud... from black Friday to Valentine, trough Christmas... does it recall anything to you?

- H Brass were also previewed at NAMM, but released a bit later.

- EW marketing is doing any possible pressure to push on subscriptions and constantly on sale with any possible excuse... mostly using discounts and new products announcements...

So: what's new? What's surprising?


----------



## Zedcars

Fa said:


> well... it's just for fun to keep this thread alive. LOL even if it's a gift to EW they didn't deserve...
> 
> Anyway:
> 
> - H Choirs were announced 1 year before release, expected for "fall" released late winter, after strong campaign of subscriptions in C.Cloud... from black Friday to Valentine, trough Christmas... does it recall anything to you?
> 
> - H Brass were also previewed at NAMM, but released a bit later.
> 
> - EW marketing is doing any possible pressure to push on subscriptions and constantly on sale with any possible excuse... mostly using discounts and new products announcements...
> 
> So: what's new? What's surprising?


But premeditated with full awareness and forethought about trying to increase their subscriptions with the allure of a new product which is not yet ready? Is that what people really believe? I’m not sure I accept that but maybe I’m just naive. Why would a company resort to this?


----------



## BasariStudios

Zedcars said:


> Why would a company resort to this?


Greediness? Which usually goes back to bite them in the ass.


----------



## Trax

Some people are just really bad with time management and you'd think they'd learn, but despite drawing the ire of customers it just doesn't improve. I work for such a company and after failing to meet deadlines. Things are attempted, including a bigger deadline buffer and it's always the same people that run over. But they're also late day to day so it's not a surprise.


----------



## Fa

Zedcars said:


> But premeditated with full awareness and forethought about trying to increase their subscriptions with the allure of a new product which is not yet ready? Is that what people really believe? I’m not sure I accept that but maybe I’m just naive. Why would a company resort to this?



I didn't mean it's premeditated. I think it's simply "disconnected".

The job of developers is to deliver as soon as possible, they can face issues and have delays, and if they are good developers they always prefer a delay vs. a premature buggy or incomplete release.

The job of marketing is to sell the hell out of anything. They simply don't refrain from keeping the promotion in front of the delay, even if customers should expect it. They tease and rise the bar of money-making until the customers start getting pissed-off and sales decline... then it's time for transparence and customer care.

Obviously this time didn't come yet for EW. If the actual policy pays back, it won't change.


----------



## dcoscina

Now that Modern Scoring Strings has been released...


----------



## Jose7822

I will refer back to Heavyocity.

They just released a Gravity expansion. The product was announced the same day it was released. No waiting. No marketing BS. EW (and other developers with the same bad habits) could learn a bit from Heavyocity 🙂.


----------



## BasariStudios

dcoscina said:


> Now that Modern Scoring Strings has been released...


I was begging them in there today to COME BACK HOME
since MSS is released already...looks like they are coming back home.


----------



## szczaw

Jose7822 said:


> I will refer back to Heavyocity.
> 
> They just released a Gravity expansion. The product was announced the same day it was released. No waiting. No marketing BS. EW (and other developers with the same bad habits) could learn a bit from Heavyocity 🙂.


It's not fair comparison since Heavyocity does not sell subscriptions. The temptation to announce products prematurely is simply not there !


----------



## szczaw

Folks at EW are being tempted and they succumb.


----------



## Jose7822

szczaw said:


> It's not fair comparison since Heavyocity does not sell subscriptions. The temptation to announce products prematurely is simply not there !



Thing is that EW has been doing this premature announcement practice since way before they started the subscription model. And even if they had the subscription model from the beginning, I don’t see why they can’t wait until the product is ready for release before announcing it. Oh right, because being honest with your customers doesn’t get them to subscribe early. That’s just being shitty.


----------



## ChristianM

Jose7822 said:


> Thing is that EW has been doing this premature announcement practice since way before they started the subscription model. And even if they had the subscription model from the beginning, I don’t see why they can’t wait until the product is ready for release before announcing it. Oh right, because being honest with your customers doesn’t get them to subscribe early. That’s just being shitty.


Yes, for Play Pro 
For all products in fact in my memory…


----------



## jcrosby

szczaw said:


> It's not fair comparison since Heavyocity does not sell subscriptions. The temptation to announce products prematurely is simply not there !


Even when your average kontakt developer does a teaser the product releases on the stated deadline... EW not so much...


----------



## stfciu

Oh my. Can we just wait until it will be actually released? I issue non-post behaviour. When we are posting they just keep smiling at us


----------



## BasariStudios

stfciu said:


> Oh my. Can we just wait until it will be actually released? I issue non-post behaviour. When we are posting they just keep smiling at us


I don't think they are smiling. We are not the Fools here, they are.
I know few people for a fact that the money saved for Hoopus went
to AudioBro or SpitFire...trust me they are not smiling, they are not
fooling us nor are we the Idiots...Wallets talk here.


----------



## stfciu

BasariStudios said:


> I don't think they are smiling. We are not the Fools here, they are.
> I know few people for a fact that the money saved for Hoopus went
> to AudioBro or SpitFire...trust me they are not smiling, they are not
> fooling us nor are we the Idiots...Wallets talk here.


That's what I meant


----------



## Jose7822

I agree. Let’s talk with our wallets. Enough said.


----------



## AllanH

Software is hard, especially multi-platform real-time software. I don't think there is any reason assign malice to them missing their stated release objective. These things happen and the last year has hardly been "normal". I'm looking forward to the release. If Nick was actively involved I'm sure it will be worth the wait.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Jose7822 said:


> I agree. Let’s talk with our wallets. Enough said.


I caved and upgraded Hollywood winds and percussion to Diamond (prices too good to resist). I’m not impressed with the communication, but I’m confident it will be a great VI. I’ve just been using HB and HS for so long....they’re the devil I know.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

I finally found the opus thread, where should i start reading?


----------



## Wlad

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I finally found the opus thread, where should i start reading?


Don't bother. Forget about the Opus, EW became a scamming company. Invest your money elsewhere.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I finally found the opus thread, where should i start reading?


Not where but when. I'd say around July 2021? ;D



Jeremy Spencer said:


> I caved and upgraded Hollywood winds and percussion to Diamond


How is the diamond perc? I have gold and thinking about updating, but still not sure. Additional mics are worth it? Especially snare, timpani, glock (I dislike glock in gold because of bad velocity transition and use kontakt factory one instead).


----------



## Wlad

Piotrek K. said:


> Not where but when. I'd say around July 2021? ;D
> 
> 
> How is the diamond perc? I have gold and thinking about updating, but still not sure. Additional mics are worth it? Especially snare, timpani, glock (I dislike glock in gold because of bad velocity transition and use kontakt factory one instead).


I have the diamond perc and all I use are the MAIN mics, so no need for the upgrade in my opinion.


----------



## Jackdaw

I upgraded to HO diamond and must say that I'm glad I did, I really appreciate the extra mics especially with brass, helps a lot with my epic endeavours. Dunno if it was worth for the other sections, but brass is just too good to live without still after all these years (YMMV depending what kind of music you make).
Otherwise I just bailed out from OPUS train and bought MSS so count my money out from EW wallet. Life is too short for this kind of s**t.


----------



## Jose7822

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I caved and upgraded Hollywood winds and percussion to Diamond (prices too good to resist). I’m not impressed with the communication, but I’m confident it will be a great VI. I’ve just been using HB and HS for so long....they’re the devil I know.



I understand because EW has been my main orchestral VI from the start. I’ve tried moving away from them by purchasing replacement libraries in the past, but they end up not living to my expectations. In my opinion, Strings and Brass is where it’s at with EW. The Woodwinds and Percussion are good, but not great like the first two libraries. Perhaps I haven’t been investing in the correct libraries? For example, Junky XL Brass is the only Brass library that I feel sounds better than Hollywood Brass. I have replacements for Hollywood Percussion in other libraries. I just need to find replacements for the Strings and the Woodwinds.

Anyway, it’s gonna suck moving away from EW because of how good it sounds, how well I know the libraries, and how cheap they are. But this thread has made it clear that EW doesn’t really care about their customers. The fact that they don’t even have a forum of their own is proof of that. Nick shows up here and there, but that’s about it. If you ask them questions on Facebook, they give you the same answer “more info once the product is closer to release” (paraphrasing here). Then why the hell announce a product so far ahead? You know people are gonna ask questions. To me it’s just an archaic marketing philosophy. I want to support companies that communicate with their customers, not ones that treat them as cattle with false advertisement.

I’ll still check out this thread, but I think I’m done waiting. Besides, OPUS is mostly HO Diamond, which I already have. Unless EW gives me a VERY compelling upgrade price (one that will make me forget their archaic marketing strategy), I’m just gonna save up to purchase other libraries when they go on sale. Thankfully there are still many other sample libraries that I haven’t tried.


----------



## Evans

The most recent thing we heard regarding timeline is something to the effect of, "probably in Q1," and we're more than halfway through the quarter. 

If there's any hope of release by the end of March, it's possible that we'll start getting new content in the coming _weeks_, not months.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Piotrek K. said:


> Not where but when. I'd say around July 2021? ;D
> 
> 
> How is the diamond perc? I have gold and thinking about updating, but still not sure. Additional mics are worth it? Especially snare, timpani, glock (I dislike glock in gold because of bad velocity transition and use kontakt factory one instead).


Actually, I like the main mic’s better than the mids that comes with Gold. Worth the upgrade price? If you are upgrading from Gold, then the $49 is a steal. I didn’t own it, so snagged it for $125, as I’m hoping it will get me into a good upgrade price on Opus now that I have all four main sections. If not, it’s a nice addition.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Actually, I like the main mic’s better than the mids that comes with Gold. Worth the upgrade price? If you are upgrading from Gold, then the $49 is a steal. I didn’t own it, so snagged it for $125, as I’m hoping it will get me into a good upgrade price on Opus now that I have all four main sections. If not, it’s a nice addition.


I think percussion gold comes with main. Only strings comes with MID...
But on brass I prefer MID mics because of less body. So maybe I should try diamond perc... Or I will wait for upgrade for 25 bucks xD


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Piotrek K. said:


> I think percussion gold comes with main. Only strings comes with MID...
> But on brass I prefer MID mics because of less body. So maybe I should try diamond perc... Or I will wait for upgrade for 25 bucks xD


You are correct! I meant to say close mic's (and Gold is indeed main), I really like the detail that these close mic's bring out in the percussion.


----------



## Tremendouz

I have to say the timpani in perc diamond would be close to useless to me with just the main mic, it just sounds mushy and lacks impact without the close mic blended in (maybe transient plug-in could help)


----------



## I like music

Tremendouz said:


> I have to say the timpani in perc diamond would be close to useless to me with just the main mic, it just sounds mushy and lacks impact without the close mic blended in (maybe transient plug-in could help)


I have gold only. Can confirm this is 200% true.


----------



## szczaw

Jackdaw said:


> Otherwise I just bailed out from OPUS train and bought MSS so count my money out from EW wallet. Life is too short for this kind of s**t.


I'm unperturbed  MSS seems great though.


----------



## j0fer

But is that 1st quarter of the calendar year, or 1Q of FY22, which starts in April?


----------



## j0fer

can...open....worms...everywhere


----------



## Jose7822

j0fer said:


> But is that 1st quarter of the calendar year, or 1Q of FY22, which starts in April?



That’s a good question. However, you probably won’t get an answer.

EW gets criticized for their lack of communication, and what do they do? They give us more lack of communication. They are too scared to come here, lol. OK, then post info on Facebook. Are they also scared to post there? Oh wait, probably. They don’t even have a forum because of how scared they are to confront disgruntled customers 🤷🏼‍♂️.


----------



## Trax

I understood that they used to have a forum? If so when did that get killed?


----------



## cqd

Some of ye would really want to calm down a bit.. yeah, they're late with the release.. yeah, it's unfortunate.. but like, it's a sample library.. get over yourselves..


----------



## Wlad

cqd said:


> Some of ye would really want to calm down a bit.. yeah, they're late with the release.. yeah, it's unfortunate.. but like, it's a sample library.. get over yourselves..


Doug Rogers, is that you?


----------



## Jose7822

Trax said:


> I understood that they used to have a forum? If so when did that get killed?



Yes, they used to have their own forum, but I don’t know exactly when they disbanded it. I believe it was some time last year.



cqd said:


> Some of ye would really want to calm down a bit.. yeah, they're late with the release.. yeah, it's unfortunate.. but like, it's a sample library.. get over yourselves..



No! 🤣

In all seriousness though, I’m not mad at the delay. I don’t care about that, although I do wish EW had waited MUCH longer before announcing HOOPUS. It was obviously not ready to be announced almost a year ago. What I am mad about is their lack of communication. They suck at that.


----------



## Jose7822

Wlad said:


> Doug Rogers, is that you?



Perfect!! 😂🤣😂


----------



## Wlad

3DC said:


> Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
> - Aristotle


Dude, by quotes in your post and your signature I see that you probably like to read a lot (which is great, I do too). I would recommend you to go back to the beginning of the thread and start reading so you could realize that this has nothing to do with patience, but lies and deceit. Posting something like this could only make others think you are weird.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Piotrek K. said:


> Not where but when. I'd say around July 2021? ;D


How dumb does one have to be to search post from July 2021? Dumb like me! lol ...totally misread that.

Anyone can summarize why people are so pissed? I'm guessing they announced something and it never happened?

Thanks.


----------



## rnb_2

The release was supposed to happen around NAMM in January, and there were 1-hour intro events scheduled for NAMM. In the end, we got two runs of the same "teaser" video, no mention of when release will happen, and continued pushing of the subscription plans, same as happened all last year and particularly on the run-up to NAMM.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

rnb_2 said:


> The release was supposed to happen around NAMM in January, and there were 1-hour intro events scheduled for NAMM. In the end, we got two runs of the same "teaser" video, no mention of when release will happen, and continued pushing of the subscription plans, same as happened all last year and particularly on the run-up to NAMM.


Thanks. Did they mentioned covid as an excuse? Or they went complete radio silence i guess from reading previous post...


----------



## Jose7822

Last time Nick Phoenix posted here (who is, by the way, the ONLY person connected to the development of HOOPUS who has posted here thus far) was on January 27 of this year. The only thing he mentioned about COVID was that it sucks. But we all know that. Ever since that day, it’s been radio silent.

To clarify, I, and others here, were told that HOOPUS would release during NAMM on January 21st. That was the official release date. It was originally slated as a Fall 2020 release though. At that time (and even months before that), EW encouraged people to join their subscription service in order to get the best deal on HOOPUS. Then EW changed their wording from releasing on January 21st to just announcing HOOPUS on January 21st, with an imminent official software release shortly after.

As mentioned above, they we’re going to release a 10 minute announcement trailer during the NAMM show on January 21st, followed by a 1hr “presentation” (or at least they did have a 1hr slot saved) on January 22nd. However, a couple of days before NAMM, EW changed that January 22nd 1hr “presentation” (I put this word in parentheses because I think this was not confirmed, but I could be remembering wrong) to replaying the same 10 min announcement trailer. Basically, we got the same trailer twice and no software release.

After NAMM people were rightfully angry at EW because they were told to join their subscription service before the release of HOOPUS in order to get the sales price they were offering at the time, and thus the best deal. Yet, they did not only miss that January 21st release window, but they also didn’t even apologize or communicated anything about the change of plan to their customers. Everyone was in the dark about it. Even Nick Phoenix did not know that HOOPUS was being marketed to release on January 21st. That’s how bad EW is at communicating.

Last we heard from Nick was that HOOPUS would be releasing by Q1 this year. Whatever that means. EW did however refunded money to the people who joined their subscription model to get the deal on HOOPUS. However, there were others who upgraded or bought Hollywood Orchestra Diamond to get a discount price (as recommended by EW). Obviously those people didn’t get a refund since you don’t get refund on software purchases.

Anyway, that’s pretty much the gist of it. There’s a ton of info I’m leaving out for the sake of not making this into a book. But hopefully you, and those recently joining this thread, will get the idea.


----------



## dzilizzi

rnb_2 said:


> The release was supposed to happen around NAMM in January, and there were 1-hour intro events scheduled for NAMM. In the end, we got two runs of the same "teaser" video, no mention of when release will happen, and continued pushing of the subscription plans, same as happened all last year and particularly on the run-up to NAMM.


No, the release was supposed to happen in Fall 2020. Nothing. Then suddenly it was going to be released at NAMM. Nope. Not even a walkthrough. Then soon. Well, that was almost a month ago. 

So people are understandably annoyed because they've been saving money and skipping sales for stuff they wanted to buy this new great thing. How long do we put off spending on other things? A delay is fine. But give us a date or at least a general idea. 

And I'm not really bothered personally, but I understand the frustration.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Jose7822 said:


> Last time Nick Phoenix posted here (who is, by the way, the ONLY person connected to the development of HOOPUS who has posted here thus far) was on January 27 of this year. The only thing he mentioned about COVID was that it sucks. But we all know that. Ever since that day, it’s been radio silent.
> 
> To clarify, I, and others here, were told that HOOPUS would release during NAMM on January 21st. That was the original release date. At that time (and even before then), EW encouraged people to join their subscription service in order to get the best deal on HOOPUS. Then EW changed their wording from releasing on January 21st to just announcing HOOPUS on January 21st, with an imminent official software release shortly after.
> 
> As mentioned above, they we’re going to release a 10 minute announcement trailer during the NAMM show on January 21st, followed by a 1hr “presentation” (or at least they did have a 1hr slot saved) on January 22nd. However, a couple of days before NAMM, EW changed that January 22nd 1hr “presentation” (I put this word in parentheses because I think this was not confirmed, but I could be remembering wrong) to replaying the same 10 min announcement trailer. Basically, we got the same trailer twice and no software release.
> 
> After NAMM people were rightfully angry at EW because they were told to join their subscription service before the release of HOOPUS in order to get the sales price they were offering at the time, and thus the best deal. Yet, they did not only miss that January 21st release window, but they also didn’t even apologize or communicated anything about the change of plan to their customers. Everyone was in the dark about it. Even Nick Phoenix did not know that HOOPUS was being marketed to release on January 21st. That’s how bad EW is at communicating.
> 
> Last we heard from Nick was that HOOPUS would be releasing by Q1 this year. Whatever that means. EW did however refunded money to the people who joined their subscription model to get the deal on HOOPUS. However, there were others who upgraded or bought Hollywood Orchestra Diamond to get a discount price (as recommended by EW). Obviously those people didn’t get a refund since you don’t get refund on software purchases.
> 
> Anyway, that’s pretty much the gist of it. There’s a ton of info I’m leaving out for the sake of not making this into a book. But hopefully you, and those recently joining this thread, will get the idea.


Ok, It's much clearer now. Thanks a bunch.


----------



## Wlad

3DC said:


> I see and understand your point of view but you guys obviously don't see the other side of the coin.
> 
> We were throughout 2020 and still are in some ares of the world in *near war-zone* situation. A lot of key people had to stay home especially in music industry. Some, unfortunately even died.
> 
> EW as many other music companies have serious logistic and business problems we are usually not aware of. Spitfire Audio, just for example, tried to overcome this lockdown situation but even they couldn't. They had to throw away several already finished projects because they couldn't get all people safely in the same room and assure expected quality standards. Some very important projects are therefore on hold until further notice.
> 
> We are still in publicly declared "*force majeure"* situation. These are *unforeseeable circumstances* that prevent even the best companies in the world from properly fulfilling their promises, contracts and obligations. Pretending here its business as usual is really not appropriate IMHO.
> 
> My 5 cents...


Other companies like VSL, Spitfire, 8dio, NI... released several libraries during the lockdown. Audiobro released massive MSS recently. While EW is working on refurbishing an old library for 5 years. Also, take into consideration that new samples for OPUS have been recorded a long time ago.

But ok, let us go your route and say EW had a major breakdown during 2020 and that COVID is the reason for not releasing the library during the fall 2020 or January 2021. Let me then ask you something... Why did they urge people to upgrade their subscriptions, complete their libraries or buy them, because, as they said, that will lock-in the lower upgrade price when the library is released in fall 2020? If they knew back then that the library is not finished and it would not be released on time, why did they start a marketing campaign and took the money from people?

But ok, let us go the other route and say that the OPUS was to be released on January 21. and while they were preparing for an hour-long presentation of their "cutting-edge 5 years in development" software they just then discovered major OPUS breaking, DAW crashing bugs. Is it ok not to communicate with your customers and tell them the library would unexpectedly be delayed for this or for that reason?

Again, if you read the comments on this thread, and you sad that you are a big fan of mine and that you've read all my comments, you would realize that people are not mad for the delay itself, but the way the delay has been handled.


----------



## rudi

3DC said:


> I see and understand your point of view but you guys obviously don't see the other side of the coin.
> 
> We were throughout 2020 and still are in some ares of the world in *near war-zone* situation. A lot of key people had to stay home especially in music industry. Some, unfortunately even died.
> 
> EW as many other music companies have serious logistic and business problems we are usually not aware of. Spitfire Audio, just for example, tried to overcome this lockdown situation but even they couldn't. They had to throw away several already finished projects because they couldn't get all people safely in the same room and assure expected quality standards. Some very important projects are therefore on hold until further notice.
> 
> We are still in publicly declared "*force majeure"* situation. These are *unforeseeable circumstances* that prevent even the best companies in the world from properly fulfilling their promises, contracts and obligations. Pretending here its business as usual is really not appropriate IMHO.
> 
> My 5 cents...


How long would it take for one person to post a brief message along the lines of:

_"We are sorry about the missed release - this is because of xyx. We still haven't got a firm release date, but we will keep you posted on the progress."
_


----------



## Lassi Tani

Wlad said:


> Other companies like VSL, Spitfire, 8dio, NI... released several libraries during the lockdown. Audiobro released massive MSS recently. While EW is working on refurbishing an old library for 5 years. Also, take into consideration that new samples for OPUS have been recorded a long time ago.
> 
> But ok, let us go your route and say EW had a major breakdown during 2020 and that COVID is the reason for not releasing the library during the fall 2020 or January 2021. Let me then ask you something... Why did they urge people to upgrade their subscriptions, complete their libraries or buy them, because, as they said, that will lock-in the lower upgrade price when the library is released in fall 2020? If they knew back then that the library is not finished and it would not be released on time, why did they start a marketing campaign and took the money from people?
> 
> But ok, let us go the other route and say that the OPUS was to be released on January 21. and while they were preparing for an hour-long presentation of their "cutting-edge 5 years in development" software they just then discovered major OPUS breaking, DAW crashing bugs. Is it ok not to communicate with your customers and tell them the library would unexpectedly be delayed for this or for that reason?
> 
> Again, if you read the comments on this thread, and you sad that you are a big fan of mine and that you've read all my comments, you would realize that people are not mad for the delay itself, but the way the delay has been handled.


This 👍👍👍


----------



## Lazer42

3DC said:


> I see and understand your point of view but you guys obviously don't see the other side of the coin.
> 
> We were throughout 2020 and still are in some ares of the world in *near war-zone* situation. A lot of key people had to stay home especially in music industry. Some, unfortunately even died.
> 
> EW as many other music companies have serious logistic and business problems we are usually not aware of. Spitfire Audio, just for example, tried to overcome this lockdown situation but even they couldn't. They had to throw away several already finished projects because they couldn't get all people safely in the same room and assure expected quality standards. Some very important projects are therefore on hold until further notice.
> 
> We are still in publicly declared "*force majeure"* situation. These are *unforeseeable circumstances* that prevent even the best companies in the world from properly fulfilling their promises, contracts and obligations. Pretending here its business as usual is really not appropriate IMHO.
> 
> My 5 cents...


I appreciate your willingness to try to see things from the perspective of other people and to cut people slack rather than simply attacking them. That's important.

What I think you're missing is two things. The first is the less important one, and that is that most industries, at least in the US where EastWest is located, have managed to carry on at least _for the most part _after the first couple of months. A very notable example is Hollywood and the entertainment industry, which has continued to make films and television productions through all of this. It's an industry located in the same part of the world and using many of the same people/workers/etc.

However, that's not really the important point, because yes, you are entirely right that any number of things could have delayed this product, including all of the virus stuff - and more importantly, because most people are not upset about the delay. What people are upset about is the second point that you haven't seemed to consider: that EastWest were advertising the product with a particular release date until literally days before hand and encouraging people to spend money on things that would, according to the marketing, allow them to get this new product on that date. 

_That _is why people are so upset. It's not the delay. Delays can happen for all sorts of reasons. It's the fact that they were still advertising a date that this product would be available, and still basically taking money for it, up through a time when it seems like they would have to have already known it was going to be delayed. That's why people are upset.

Having some extraordinary situation like the past year arise which delays a product? That's entirely understandable and most people do understand it. 

Continuing to say the product will be available on day X and continuing to take money for that product once you realize it will not be available on day X? That's different.

Now I want to be as fair as possible here, so let's consider: is it possible that they literally found out about the delay the day before and were advertising in good faith ahead of time? The way the exact timeline played out it's difficult to believe this, but yes it is possible. However, if that were what happened then some kind of simple communication would have averted all of these issues. All it would take is an announcement somewhere that said something like, "sorry folks, but we literally just yesterday had something come up which is going to delay this product a bit. We're still working on it and we'll give you an update once we have a better idea of how long this will take to finish."

I do think some of the anger about this has been a bit too much and some are being overly harsh with EastWest here, even given what's happened. However, I do think some level of anger or criticism is justified.


----------



## Gerbil

They'll release it whenever and if it's any good all this debating will be brushed aside and people will buy it regardless. Best spend energy elsewhere until it finally appears.


----------



## Frederick

3DC said:


> Please consider some important facts in the sea of opinions:
> 
> 
> People falsely assume that companies talk to their customers publicly trough various media all the time. They don't. In fact they only do that very rarely trough official press releases.
> YT video, 3rd party news releases or social media posts are not company official press release unless clearly named as such.
> People also falsely assume that company PR or official release is written in house but most of the time its not ( especially in California ).
> Yes its true that EW released an official release but if you read carefully its an ANNOUNCEMENT or INTENT to do something not a FACT they will actually do that. It may seem the same thing to many of you here but its not.
> All US companies must comply to SAME procedures and standards of communication that limit risk factors. (Forward looking statement or safe harbor statement). EW is not an exception.
> We have publicly declared "force majeure" situation. These are *unforeseeable circumstances* that prevent even the best companies in the world from properly fulfilling their promises, contracts and obligations.
> People falsely assume that the impact of COVID in music industry was and still is limited just because "X" company managed to pull its project trough.
> EW is a actually a STUDIO business extremely depended on people and musicians actually present in the studio.
> I am not defending EW at all. I am just pointing out to other, not so obvious side of the coin. It could be Spitfire Audio, NI or any other VI publisher and I would say the same.
> 
> May I also remind you that its not over yet. Not even close IMHO.
> 
> Another 5 cents I guess...


I think people have told you they've changed the wording about the release on the EastWest site, so quoting that now is besides the point. Also people have received e-mails from EastWest support making certain statements.

On the other hand. Nick Phoenix DID apologize in this thread. EastWest apparently let people cancel subsciptions and giving them their money back, because they were not able to deliver on the promise that OPUS would be released on Januari 21st. Nick also told us that they have been working day and night for many months to get this released, and that I respect a lot. Also adding more features has been mentioned, which is not always wise when trying to get a product released - you might keep breaking stuff.

The only info we have now is that it's probably going to be in the 1st quarter. Also we have been promised a video. After that... Total radio silence again, so myself I'm just focusing on other things, like actually using the tools I already have. Setting up templates, etc. Some people however were really counting on this release and are understandibly still quite upset.


----------



## Evans

3DC said:


> Please consider some important facts in the sea of opinions:
> 
> 
> People falsely assume that companies talk to their customers publicly trough various media all the time. They don't. In fact they only do that very rarely trough official press releases.
> YT video, 3rd party news releases or social media posts are not company official press release unless clearly named as such.
> People also falsely assume that company PR or official release is written in house but most of the time its not ( especially in California ).
> Yes its true that EW released an official release but if you read carefully its an ANNOUNCEMENT or INTENT to do something not a FACT they will actually do that. It may seem the same thing to many of you here but its not.
> All US companies must comply to SAME procedures and standards of communication that limit risk factors. (Forward looking statement or safe harbor statement). EW is not an exception.
> We have publicly declared "force majeure" situation. These are *unforeseeable circumstances* that prevent even the best companies in the world from properly fulfilling their promises, contracts and obligations.
> People falsely assume that the impact of COVID in music industry was and still is limited just because "X" company managed to pull its project trough.
> EW is a actually a STUDIO business extremely depended on people and musicians actually present in the studio.
> I am not defending EW at all. I am just pointing out to other, not so obvious side of the coin. It could be Spitfire Audio, NI or any other VI publisher and I would say the same.
> 
> May I also remind you that its not over yet. Not even close IMHO.
> 
> Another 5 cents I guess...


Those points are irrelevant to the fact that EW was *pushing subscriptions* and upgrades with a specific release date, up until that specific release date, with no communication once it wasn't released on that date.

I suppose in your defense, the wording on the web site today is not what it has been at various points in time since mid-2020. Outside of Nick taking his licks here, EW pretended that the delay didn't happen, and acted as if they hadn't been pushing subscription signups "before it's too late," so to speak (that is, unless you were bold enough to complain to Support about it).

It makes sense, at least to the lawyers. And that's probably why they're being quiet. Better to make some people mad than to dig a legal hole. As nasty as it is, they're a business and their number one priority is to protect the company.

*Basically, it's not a public service. *The only right decision for them is to lay low and try to get it right next time.

Regarding the "unforeseeable circumstances," yes, the worldwide pandemic is perhaps the most globally impactful thing that most of us will experience in our lifetime. But again, it's irrelevant to the push for subs before the sudden delay. I don't think the delay _itself _is why most people are mad. If that _is_ why someone is mad, screw 'em.

Even still, some software companies are working _more _efficiently during the pandemic. I'm not so confident as to bet money on it, but it's very possible that the work that still has to be done isn't related to, for example, a need for additional recordings. But again, this is irrelevant.

Companies push on creating a connection with their brand and with their products. When the curtain gets lifted and users see that the company doesn't actually care for them more than they care for their CEO and their brand, they get upset.

I'm not an EastWest subscriber. This doesn't impact my wallet in the slightest. But as a father, these kinds of predatory actions (subscriber pushes) and subsequent goofs are things I warn my daughter about as she and her friends get caught up with influencer marketing.


----------



## Wlad

I know, in a week's time we will have another person not understanding what the hell is happening here and why are people unsatisfied with EW's treatment. For those who are unaware of how good communication should look like, I will quote the post from Sebastian, one of the owners of a small company with a big sound named Audiobro. Here is what he had to say when they realized they had to push the release date for 15 more days:


_"Hi folks,

Sorry for the delay. We are really bummed not to hit January as well. There are no major hiccups... just need two more weeks to have videos, manuals, demos, and the store all ready. But we tried like crazy to make January. Anyway, we appreciate your patience and there will be more videos coming very shortly.

In terms of polyphonic legato, auto divisi, mono legato, mono polyrhythmic auto parcheesi... yes it has all those things. I think we need to do a better job explaining how all that works. To be clear, yes you can use a combined patch and have poly legato with auto divisi splits happening at the same time. Just play chords. You can also completely customize your sections (which section plays the lead, how sections split, etc). And yes, you can also play poly legato using a single divisi if you want. And of course, you can get back to note-overlap-mono-legato as well. But our goal is always to be able to load and play with poly-leg/auto-divisi without needing to worry about the setup.

Anyway, thanks again for being so gracious about the delay (..gulp..). I strongly think this will be worth the extra two weeks wait."_

You can find this post on the Modern Scoring Strings thread, page 73.


----------



## BasariStudios

3DC said:


> I see and understand your point of view but you guys obviously don't see the other side of the coin.
> 
> We were throughout 2020 and still are in some ares of the world in *near war-zone* situation. A lot of key people had to stay home especially in music industry. Some, unfortunately even died.
> 
> EW as many other music companies have serious logistic and business problems we are usually not aware of. Spitfire Audio, just for example, tried to overcome this lockdown situation but even they couldn't. They had to throw away several already finished projects because they couldn't get all people safely in the same room and assure expected quality standards. Some very important projects are therefore on hold until further notice.
> 
> We are still in publicly declared "*force majeure"* situation. These are *unforeseeable circumstances* that prevent even the best companies in the world from properly fulfilling their promises, contracts and obligations. Pretending here its business as usual is really not appropriate IMHO.
> 
> My 5 cents...


You have no clue what you are talking about so better not talk.
Stop being a philosopher. They should not take money if they
can not deliver, Covid or no Covid, Covid is not our problem.


----------



## Trax

rudi said:


> How long would it take for one person to post a brief message along the lines of:
> 
> _"We are sorry about the missed release - this is because of xyx. We still haven't got a firm release date, but we will keep you posted on the progress."_


When you're in a near war zone situation and under covid related delays, that takes at least a couple months to do.

That they were able to produce that slick announcement video is by the grace of God in such armageddon-like situation, where transportation, food and water is hard to come by.


----------



## Lazer42

Trax said:


> When you're in a near war zone situation and under covid related delays, that takes at least a couple months to do.
> 
> That they were able to produce that's slick announcement video is by the grace of God in such armageddon-like situation, where transportation, food and water is hard to come by.


I wonder if some people living in other parts of the world have an inaccurate perception of what things are like in the US. Transportation, food and water are not hard to come by. Things are, with some exceptions, largely normal. Those exceptions do matter, and yes they could contribute to a product being delayed or, but describing the state of things in the US as being like a war-zone is simply not accurate by any stretch of the imagination.


----------



## Lazer42

3DC said:


> Please consider some important facts in the sea of opinions:
> 
> 
> People falsely assume that companies talk to their customers publicly trough various media all the time. They don't. In fact they only do that very rarely trough official press releases.
> YT video, 3rd party news releases or social media posts are not company official press release unless clearly named as such.
> People also falsely assume that company PR or official release is written in house but most of the time its not ( especially in California ).
> Yes its true that EW released an official release but if you read carefully its an ANNOUNCEMENT or INTENT to do something not a FACT they will actually do that. It may seem the same thing to many of you here but its not.
> All US companies must comply to SAME procedures and standards of communication that limit risk factors. (Forward looking statement or safe harbor statement). EW is not an exception.
> We have publicly declared "force majeure" situation. These are *unforeseeable circumstances* that prevent even the best companies in the world from properly fulfilling their promises, contracts and obligations.
> People falsely assume that the impact of COVID in music industry was and still is limited just because "X" company managed to pull its project trough.
> EW is a actually a STUDIO business extremely depended on people and musicians actually present in the studio.
> I am not defending EW at all. I am just pointing out to other, not so obvious side of the coin. It could be Spitfire Audio, NI or any other VI publisher and I would say the same.
> 
> May I also remind you that its not over yet. Not even close IMHO.
> 
> Another 5 cents I guess...


This reads like something a lawyer wrote to exonerate a client on technicalities. Some of these points are clearly true, while others are the sorts of things which are difficult to disprove or prove definitively and so which can be stated without being open to a direct rebuttal but which don't necessarily prove much, either.

Either way, they're not the kinds of statements that mean much to customers who believe they have been mistreated. The fact of the matter is that through unofficial _as well as official channels_, OPUS was presented as something which was going to be released on January 21st, and this is still how it was being presented only a few days before that date. Only a few days before people were still being told that if they spent money on certain products - i.e., HWO Diamond, Composer Cloud Plus, etc. - that they would have access to OPUS on the 21st.

No amount of technicality is going to assuage the bad taste in the mouth of people who spent their hard earned money on this product only to have it A) not be available and B) have no real indication as to when it will be. I'm the first to say that some people have taken their anger with EW too far, but the fact is that were it not for the technicalities, this kind of handling of a situation would be considered illegal in many places. You can't receive payment for the delivery of a good or service on a particular date, not deliver what was paid for, and not even tell the customer when they can expect to receive what they paid for. 

You have also raised the issue of COVID a few times. You're correct that COVID could be responsible for delays in the release of a product. However, as you yourself said, consider the other side of the coin. Money is not necessarily an easy thing for many to come by in the time of COVID, especially for the people who use and purchase libraries like this in their work. That's all the _more _reason that people are upset, and that there is something wrong, about taking people's money for something which you are not going to deliver on schedule.


----------



## Trax

Lazer42 said:


> I wonder if some people living in other parts of the world have an inaccurate perception of what things are like in the US. Transportation, food and water are not hard to come by. Things are, with some exceptions, largely normal. Those exceptions do matter, and yes they could contribute to a product being delayed or, but describing the state of things in the US as being like a war-zone is simply not accurate by any stretch of the imagination.


I'm in the US and CA even. I was quoting 3DC in regards to war-zone.


----------



## Trash Panda

Last time I checked, LA residents aren’t living under war zone like conditions.

COVID isn’t a valid excuse either because the recordings are already done as indicated that they know how much storage space the new material will take up. Programmers, QA, Product Managers and other tech people involved at this stage can function just fine remotely.

This is nothing more than marketing and PR failure.


----------



## Evans

Lazer42 said:


> I wonder if some people living in other parts of the world have an inaccurate perception of what things are like in the US. Transportation, food and water are not hard to come by. Things are, with some exceptions, largely normal. Those exceptions do matter, and yes they could contribute to a product being delayed or, but describing the state of things in the US as being like a war-zone is simply not accurate by any stretch of the imagination.


There is absolutely an odd, split experience in the US.

Hospitals are still over-flowing and over-worked (on one side of her family, _every_ single one of my wife's aunts and female cousins are nurses), yet Disney World is open for business.

The software company my wife works for has dramatically increased productivity over the past year, since people aren't taking long lunches, having extended chats in break rooms, and so on. Engineers are putting in their full hours and calling it a day, because what else are they gonna do?


----------



## Jose7822

Wlad said:


> I know, in a week's time we will have another person not understanding what the hell is happening here and why are people unsatisfied with EW's treatment. For those who are unaware of how good communication should look like, I will quote the post from Sebastian, one of the owners of a small company with a big sound named Audiobro. Here is what he had to say when they realized they had to push the release date for 15 more days:



Seriously! I don’t know how many times we have to rehash this topic. People who weren’t here when shit went down should not judge. Period!


----------



## Jose7822

Evans said:


> There is absolutely an odd, split experience in the US.
> 
> Hospitals are still over-flowing and over-worked (on one side of her family, _every_ single one of my wife's aunts and female cousins are nurses), yet Disney World is open for business.



That’s Florida for you.

Too many ignorant people here who think they know it all. They believe that COVID is a conspiracy from the U.S. government (even though it’s affecting the entire world, hence a pandemic), and/or that their rights are being stripped away. But that’s a whole other subject.

Unfortunately for me, I live in Florida 😔.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jose7822 said:


> Seriously! I don’t know how many times we have to rehash this topic. People who weren’t here when shit went down should not judge. Period!


Or at least they need to read through all 125 (so far) pages.


----------



## BasariStudios

3DC said:


> I am told by Admin not to be so aggressive in slamming someone else.
> You guys are really something.


You sound like a broken Legato on and on, people explained to you
the facts and you kept going. Are you Doug Rogers by any chance?


----------



## cqd

BasariStudios said:


> You sound like a broken Legato on and on, people explained to you
> the facts and you kept going. Are you Doug Rogers by any chance?


Dude, you need to chill out a bit.. should you not be working on your 80 horns thing or something?..


----------



## Audio Birdi

You're all fighting over software-based orchestral samples lol.

Would any of you personally like to be the PR or Marketing or development side of these library companies? 

If so, you can ask them for a job based on your experience of complaining on forums, as a lot would be very qualified here for sure!

Stuff gets delayed, I do agree with the fact that the PR / Marketing has been wrong with setting a release date and marketing subscriptions / upgrades based on a set release date, which internally they knew wasn't coming as developers. But I'm sure the wait will be justified, since we are getting a full-new sample player, with features we've been asking for, for years! Along with re-fined current samples for HOD / HOG as well as brand new content in OPUS 

I am enjoying all this popcorn whilst I've read through the pages though aha!


----------



## dzilizzi

HOG. :emoji_pig2: 
Took me a moment. I like it. 

I really think it is mean of you to come here complaining about everyone complaining and talking about popcorn without bringing enough to share. :emoji_popcorn::emoji_popcorn::emoji_popcorn::emoji_popcorn:


----------



## Audio Birdi

dzilizzi said:


> HOG. :emoji_pig2:
> Took me a moment. I like it.
> 
> I really think it is mean of you to come here complaining about everyone complaining and talking about popcorn without bringing enough to share. :emoji_popcorn::emoji_popcorn::emoji_popcorn::emoji_popcorn:


No sharing in the middle of this pandemic, sorry!


----------



## dzilizzi

Audio Birdi said:


> No sharing in the middle of this pandemic, sorry!


I'll go make my own then!


----------



## Trax

People complaining about people complaining.


----------



## Jose7822

Trax said:


> People complaining about people complaining.



I know! Ended! 😂


----------



## Russell Anderson

Forgive me if this is common knowledge, but is it known if they are going to keep selling HS Diamond/Play post-OPUS? I’m getting more and more inclined to try HS given how consistently good they sound across shootouts, though for the most part I think this is GAS and lusting after the realism of productions by users that surgically combine 15 libraries (very often including HWO as part), like those of Blakus and Headshot. Considering the strings are $150, compared to the cost of other libraries... I don’t have the hard drive space, but I will in a few months. FOMO+GAS, it’s a powerful combo.

I know I am wanting CSS in the coming months, or possibly NSS instead. I know I am wanting Voyage, eventually. Even though $150 is so cheap for a product that can do so well, I just don’t think I should go through with it... It’s also a matter of the time it takes to learn how to coax the sound from something as complex as HS. Man, I hope I’m not missing out. If OPUS suddenly turns the tables on my current idea, I would be... annoyed, but also impressed, and given the quality of HS I don’t know if I should bank on that.


----------



## cqd

I'd say it's gone once opus comes out..
And you won't be able to upgrade from just the strings.. I'd say get the whole orchestra..
The strings beat out CSS for me a lot of the time..


----------



## Russell Anderson

cqd said:


> I'd say it's gone once opus comes out..
> And you won't be able to upgrade from just the strings.. I'd say get the whole orchestra..
> The strings beat out CSS for me a lot of the time..


I’m not sure I’d want to use the whole orchestra, however. There are other WW/Brass libraries that already have me sufficiently impressed; I’ve not done a lot of research into EW other offerings but I’ve been mostly turned off of their business model. If I could just upgrade from Strings to Strings, that would be sufficient for me.


----------



## Petrucci

I'd buy whole EWHO Diamond if It's still available for around 330$ on Everyplugin - one of the best purchases I made last year. All the sections together produce very cohesive sound and strings legatos are very special to me. Even woodwinds are not that bad as people say. Only gripe for me is the absense of long suspended cymbals swells like in EWQLSO.


----------



## Wlad

Russell Anderson said:


> I’m not sure I’d want to use the whole orchestra, however. There are other WW/Brass libraries that already have me sufficiently impressed; I’ve not done a lot of research into EW other offerings but I’ve been mostly turned off of their business model. If I could just upgrade from Strings to Strings, that would be sufficient for me.


Hollywood Strings Diamond for $150 is a steal. One of the best strings libraries. Top 10 at least.
Hollywood Brass Diamond is also great. One of the best.
Hollywood Percussion Diamond is very usable.
Hollywood Woodwinds Diamond is good as a second option or for layering.

I would also suggest that you get the Hollywood Orchestra Diamond. You will have an option to upgrade to OPUS in a few years when it comes out, but even if you don't upgrade because you will be disappointed by EastWest as a company, it is a great library for the price.


----------



## BasariStudios

cqd said:


> Dude, you need to chill out a bit.. should you not be working on your 80 horns thing or something?..


Changed to 122 Horns now.


----------



## cqd

BasariStudios said:


> Changed to 122 Horns now.


You're definitely over compensating for something..


----------



## BasariStudios

cqd said:


> You're definitely over compensating for something..


I am thinking the same.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

So if i understand correctly, you have to own all 4 volumes to have a discount on the upgrade? Frankly, i think that's a bit lazy. I have the strings and brass and i don't feel i need the ww and percs. How hard is it to have discounts for owners of 1 or 2 volumes ...or 3, 4? If the goal is to trick people into buying more volumes it's even worse, but i don't think that's what going on here. It's just one of those weird decision that makes no sense and will only attract anger. Somebody need to explain to them it's just bad business practice and it's bad for everyone = costumers and developers.

So any hint as to what this new opsus will do? Any link i should read?


----------



## BasariStudios

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> If the goal is to trick people into buying more volumes it's even worse, but i don't think that's what going on here.


Knowing them over the years that is EXACTLY what it is.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

BasariStudios said:


> Knowing them over the years that is EXACTLY what it is.


You may be right and that would explained other similar "upgrade" practice. But i prefer to give them the benefit of the dough unless there's solid evidence. Besides, could they be that obvious? i mean people would figure it out and their reputation would spread fast. then again, maybe I'm naive...


----------



## BasariStudios

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> But i prefer to give them the benefit of the dough


Depends if that is the benefit of Dough Rogers.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Trax said:


> It's not a discount. Opus requires the diamond versions. It was unclear if it was more economical to buy opus out right or to upgrade to opus from owning the diamond versions of the orchestra. People talked to EW support regarding this. But we won't truly know until release.


Requires all 4 versions? Sorry I'm late to the party and I'm trying to catch up.


----------



## Trax

I just realized that I might've misunderstood. But you caught my message before its deletion.


----------



## Trax

Redirect Notice



The plot thickens. Archived from Jan 25th. 
"Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition – along with all 67 previous instrument collections – *is available now* to ComposerCloud Plus subscribers ($299 annually)."


----------



## Jose7822

Trax said:


> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> The plot thickens. Archived from Jan 25th.
> "Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition – along with all 67 previous instrument collections – *is available now* to ComposerCloud Plus subscribers ($299 annually)."



Another example of GREAT communication, lol.


----------



## LynxUK

I remember a few years ago looking into their products, but for some reason (maybe bad vibes), was put off from getting anything from EW.
Their products generally sound great. The Play engine had a bad rap, but wasnt a complete show stopper.
I really do think, they create great samples....but.

They under sell their product, to a price point where it seems too good to be true. Thier upgrade pricing policy compared to full sale prices would baffle the best minds. The whole OPUS non release, and contradictory information released by EW, leads me to just one conclusion....
A highly skilled, musically, group of people, who dont seem to have a clue about running a customer facing business.


----------



## Russell Anderson

So you can’t buy it yet, but you can buy a year’s subscription to it.


----------



## dzilizzi

LynxUK said:


> I remember a few years ago looking into their products, but for some reason (maybe bad vibes), was put off from getting anything from EW.
> Their products generally sound great. The Play engine had a bad rap, but wasnt a complete show stopper.
> I really do think, they create great samples....but.
> 
> They under sell their product, to a price point where it seems too good to be true. Thier upgrade pricing policy compared to full sale prices would baffle the best minds. The whole OPUS non release, and contradictory information released by EW, leads me to just one conclusion....
> A highly skilled, musically, group of people, who dont seem to have a clue about running a customer facing business.


When they first came out, maybe 15 years ago, they were very pricey. Like OT Berlin or higher pricey. They really only started dropping the price a lot in the last 5 years or so and the real low 60% off maybe 1.5 to 2 years ago. So not sure if I would call it underselling. Just taking into account the age of the libraries and that they have likely more than paid for themselves by now.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

LynxUK said:


> I remember a few years ago looking into their products, but for some reason (maybe bad vibes), was put off from getting anything from EW.
> Their products generally sound great. The Play engine had a bad rap, but wasnt a complete show stopper.
> I really do think, they create great samples....but.
> 
> They under sell their product, to a price point where it seems too good to be true. Thier upgrade pricing policy compared to full sale prices would baffle the best minds. The whole OPUS non release, and contradictory information released by EW, leads me to just one conclusion....
> A highly skilled, musically, group of people, who dont seem to have a clue about running a customer facing business.


I am inclined to believe that this is a team of great composers, engineers and technicians. But a company ran by marketing. Therefore, as is known about marketers, they are focused on profits, sales and the company image. They don't tend to think in terms of humans or customer service. 

And I know Steve Jobs himself said in an interview: When a company comes to be run by the marketing department it's then that it loses its soul and customer touch (I paraphrase of course)

But he knew too well that marketers ruin companies built for people.
And I myself have witnessed this fact many times in my life.


----------



## doctoremmet

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I am inclined to believe that this is a team of great composers, engineers and technicians. But a company ran by marketing. Therefore, as is known about marketers, they are focused on profits, sales and the company image. They don't tend to think in terms of humans or customer service.
> 
> And I know Steve Jobs himself said in an interview: When a company comes to be run by the marketing department it's then that it loses its soul and customer touch (I paraphrase of course)
> 
> But he knew too well that marketers ruin companies built for people.
> And I myself have witnessed this fact many times in my life.


Marketing as it was originally intended had a way more holistic approach I gather, including people as one the many P’s it is concerned about  but nowadays it often appears to me that the most nefarious effect of marketeers running a business is the fact that they have never had any real world exposure to customers - let alone the “product” they’re selling. Which reduces anything they say or claim to mere “talking points” on a “product roll-out” spreadsheet.

I kind of like that one Nirvana song... I think it’s on In Utero? Called “Radio Friendly Unit Shifter” or something like that. I don’t know the backstory there, but I have always thought it must have been some crappy concept that they were actually exposed to back in the day....


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

doctoremmet said:


> Marketing as it was originally intended had a way more holistic approach I gather, including people as one the many P’s it is concerned about  but nowadays it often appears to me that the most nefarious effect of marketeers running a business is the fact that they have never had any real world exposure to customers - let alone the “product” they’re selling. Which reduces anything they say or claim to mere “talking points” on a “product roll-out” spreadsheet.
> 
> I kind of like that one Nirvana song... I think it’s on In Utero? Called “Radio Friendly Unit Shifter” or something like that. I don’t know the backstory there, but I have always thought it must have been some crappy concept that they were actually exposed to back in the day....


Yes, they don't have exposure to the public anymore. And what makes that the most nefarious is that it is clearly the intention of the Financial departments, so they will have less issue when being asked to make selfish decisions to rip off clients.

Those Finance guys who deal with numbers and also don't talk to people in any language other than charts, targets and procedural financial nomenclature. All this hiding behind language and intellect makes for horrible companies. Let's not even get started on HR Departments ...

I say all this working in a National Charity, which feels less and less like it resembles one iota of Charity in its blood these days :(


----------



## Mystic

Like I said before, they never said what year.


----------



## Fa

Russell Anderson said:


> So you can’t buy it yet, but you can buy a year’s subscription to it.


Sorry but this is absolutely incorrect. You can buy a year's subscription to it, but you can't download nor play it... 

Out of jokes, subscription have 2 out of 3 benefits working: you get full access to a big collection of fairly good and sometime exclusive libraries, and you will get immediate access to any new product, as soon as it will be released, including OPUS.

The most advertised time window is the missing one... I hope the delay won't be so big to really frustrate all the people subscribing mostly to get Opus. In my personal case I subscribed because of OPUS, (not really HOOpus, but the player itself for curiosity and hope of improvements on all the existing libraries) but I had the plan to use some vocal libraries as well, then it's just a 50% failure and I didn't ask for refund.

I just hope OPUS will be released before my "holidays sales" subscription expire next Christmas...


----------



## Lazer42

A theory that's come to mind a few times for me when reading a post about something here or there is whether or not the delay might be a matter of EW having planned a product release which was primarily about the Orchestrator and the smaller selection of new samples, only to see some of the things people started talking about as the release drew closer and realizing that folks were expecting a lot of new features for the engine itself but which were not originally planned. 

For example, a lot of people here have said they look forward to things like being able to program their own chosen CCs for different things, but then some of the promotional material showed an interface which didn't appear to do this and some people started to express doubts. 

Couple this with some of the other products which had some feature information revealed in this timeframe (e.g., MSS) and I wonder if they realized that what they were planning to release would have been a let down for many people and delayed things in order to add in some features. 

This is of course purely speculation and it's not even necessarily the most likely possibility. More probable is the discovery of some kind of major bug or even some kind of problem with their samples which required some re-recording - which is a difficult thing to do in the current state of affairs. 

In any event, it's just something I've wondered about.


----------



## Tremendouz

Lazer42 said:


> For example, a lot of people here have said they look forward to things like being able to program their own chosen CCs for different things, but then some of the promotional material showed an interface which didn't appear to do this and some people started to express doubts.


That said, the ability to choose your CCs is nothing new (eg. Cinematic Strings 2) so unless they've been completely oblivious to other existing products for a decade, people wanting this kind of features should absolutely not be a surprise.


----------



## Lazer42

Tremendouz said:


> That said, the ability to choose your CCs is nothing new (eg. Cinematic Strings 2) so unless they've been completely oblivious to other existing products for a decade, people wanting this kind of features should absolutely not be a surprise.


True - and I'm not even sure my example is the best one anyways. I know they did initially advertise some of these sorts of features, and assignable CCs may have been one of them - or not; I don't remember. My point was just to make a general example of the _kind _of realization I had in mind.


----------



## Wlad

When someone mentions EastWest, I remember the biggest sample library company in the business, but then all of a sudden I realize... that was the case some 6-7 years ago. And let's be honest, they haven't released anything major since then. Pop Brass, Backup Singers, Voices of the Empire... is that really the best this company has to offer? I guess it is. EastWest (sub-company, not the studio itself) is dying a slow death, and the only profit they have is coming from subscriptions and deep sales. Their next move is to refurbish a 10 years old library and 10 years old player and see how they can earn some more and not break a sweat.

From what I saw and read about the OPUS player, it has nothing more than other players like Synchron and SINE don't have already. I see some users are even ready to spend money on the player alone, but their new business model will probably be more in a ballpark of: "Upgrade your Pop Brass PLAY edition to OPUS edition for only $99"

I really cared about EW and because of that, I was angry at them. But that phase of our breakup is over... I don't care anymore.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Wlad said:


> Their next move is to refurbish a 10 years old library and 10 years old player and see how they can earn some more and not break a sweat.


True, but HS and HB are still my all time favourite libraries for brass and strings. If Opus pulls through (new player, new content), I’m sure they’ll last me another several years. I can see past the crummy marketing and bad communication...so here’s hoping!


----------



## dzilizzi

I'm really hoping the Orchestrator will do some of the things MSS's ART and Ostinato player does. Because I'm not sure I like the sound of MSS enough to pay for those features.


----------



## Quantum Leap

There are things about this business that I will spill the beans on. Some companies operate with grants, or at a loss with investors financing them. That actually benefitted composers because a ton of orchestral stuff came out without the market to really back it up. So no one should be angry with the state of things. We didn’t go crazy with more orchestra because we just didn’t see the point. We make stuff that other companies don’t, or at least that’s our goal. And we don’t go broke. I also do other stuff besides samples. I only sample stuff out of some perverse fascination with it and it’s always been interconnected with composing. You may not use pop brass, but that’s a very good library. Also I still believe that Hollywood Choirs is the best choir library ever made for 80% of choir applications. Not for exposed legato or choppy trailer music, but for everything else. I’m looking forward to using the new OPUS very soon.


----------



## cqd

Is Hollywood choirs going to be ported to the opus engine soon/next?..


----------



## Frederick

Quantum Leap said:


> There are things about this business that I will spill the beans on. Some companies operate with grants, or at a loss with investors financing them. That actually benefitted composers because a ton of orchestral stuff came out without the market to really back it up. So no one should be angry with the state of things. We didn’t go crazy with more orchestra because we just didn’t see the point. We make stuff that other companies don’t, or at least that’s our goal. And we don’t go broke. I also do other stuff besides samples. I only sample stuff out of some perverse fascination with it and it’s always been interconnected with composing. You may not use pop brass, but that’s a very good library. Also I still believe that Hollywood Choirs is the best choir library ever made for 80% of choir applications. Not for exposed legato or choppy trailer music, but for everything else. I’m looking forward to using the new OPUS very soon.


Let me just say, that I, a beginning amateur mockup fan without any talent to play an actual instrument, am very happy with what EW has released so far. I have all the vocal libraries, both orchestras, Gypsy, Ra and Silk and of course Spaces II. 

Where else am I going to find Voices of Soul or Hollywood Backup Singers? E.g. I love Thomas Newman's score for Fried Green tomatoes. How else could I mock that up without those? The thing I love the most about Hollywood Strings is that they have a different sound than any other string library that I own (Spitfire, OT, VSL, etc), and that there are plenty of very realistic mockups done with HS. It's a flavor I wouldn't want to miss.

I hope you guys keep doing what you have been doing. No point in all the big sample companies releasing the same stuff. My worry about the new material in OPUS is that it may be new to EastWest, bringing to your subscribers what I already have from another company. I hope it has its own unique flavor.


----------



## Wlad

Quantum Leap said:


> There are things about this business that I will spill the beans on. Some companies operate with grants, or at a loss with investors financing them. That actually benefitted composers because a ton of orchestral stuff came out without the market to really back it up. So no one should be angry with the state of things. We didn’t go crazy with more orchestra because we just didn’t see the point. We make stuff that other companies don’t, or at least that’s our goal. And we don’t go broke. I also do other stuff besides samples. I only sample stuff out of some perverse fascination with it and it’s always been interconnected with composing. You may not use pop brass, but that’s a very good library. Also I still believe that Hollywood Choirs is the best choir library ever made for 80% of choir applications. Not for exposed legato or choppy trailer music, but for everything else. I’m looking forward to using the new OPUS very soon.


I'm not saying that Pop Brass or any of those libraries are bad. Libraries like that are needed. It is just a shame that this is the best this company is able to output. Those are the kind of libraries two guys in their home studio or companies on the rise are making.

EW owns a wonderfully scoring stage. Instead of using the hell out of it and record some big stuff, you are recording a singer here and there. Look at VSL... they built the Synchron Stage and they are recording in it non-stop, covid, or no covid.

Regarding the Hollywood Choirs... users would not agree with you that this is the best choir library ever made cause hardly anyone is using it these days. Again, not saying that it is a bad library, far from it.

Nick, real friends are not those who are going to pat you on the shoulder while you are making the mess out of your life, like some users here do. Real friends are able to see that you are in a problem, they criticize you, they are honest with you, and try to bring out the best in you.

I love you and I'm hoping to see Two Steps from Hell on tour in Europe this year, if COVID allows it.


----------



## Wlad

dzilizzi said:


> I'm really hoping the Orchestrator will do some of the things MSS's ART and Ostinato player does. Because I'm not sure I like the sound of MSS enough to pay for those features.


If you are into that stuff, you don't have to wait for the Orchestrator cause something better is already available...


----------



## I like music

Quantum Leap said:


> very soon.


You've just sparked another 20 pages of speculation in 3 ... 2 ... 1


----------



## Fa

cqd said:


> Is Hollywood choirs going to be ported to the opus engine soon/next?..


...that was one of my (fragile) hopes... even more for Symphonic Choirs, that has in my humble opinion and for my application (expressive polyphonic, not massive/epic aaah oooh chords...) a more natural and realistic sound. 

I'm still dreaming of a better scripting of WB, enabling time changes and stable syllable editing, that are impossible and/or crazy unstable in the actual version.


----------



## cqd

Fa said:


> ...that was one of my (fragile) hopes... even more for Symphonic Choirs, that has in my humble opinion and for my application (expressive polyphonic, not massive/epic aaah oooh chords...) a more natural and realistic sound.


That would be awesome too..


----------



## BasariStudios

Wlad said:


> If you are into that stuff, you don't have to wait for the Orchestrator cause something better is already available...



I love Scaler.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Wlad said:


> I'm not saying that Pop Brass or any of those libraries are bad. Libraries like that are needed. It is just a shame that this is the best this company is able to output. Those are the kind of libraries two guys in their home studio or companies on the rise are making.
> 
> EW owns a wonderfully scoring stage. Instead of using the hell out of it and record some big stuff, you are recording a singer here and there. Look at VSL... they built the Synchron Stage and they are recording in it non-stop, covid, or no covid.
> 
> Regarding the Hollywood Choirs... users would not agree with you that this is the best choir library ever made cause hardly anyone is using it these days. Again, not saying that it is a bad library, far from it.
> 
> Nick, real friends are not those who are going to pat you on the shoulder while you are making the mess out of your life, like some users here do. Real friends are able to see that you are in a problem, they criticize you, they are honest with you, and try to bring out the best in you.
> 
> I love you and I'm hoping to see Two Steps from Hell on tour in Europe this year, if COVID allows it.


I personally agree with Nick, Hollywood Choirs is the best out there IMO, it is still my primary choir library....along with the old Symphonic Choirs (I love the individual sections and soloists). There are many pro composers still using both of these. These with, along with Oceania = EPIC.

You can't compare OT with EW, two completely different models. Sure, OT invests a lot of $$ into their development, but it comes with a price to the consumer. You probably own several EW libraries, but do you own the entire OT collection? Or at least the Berlin series? Probably not, as it would cost you a small fortune (but I'm sure they are worth it).


----------



## Wlad

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I personally agree with Nick, Hollywood Choirs is the best out there IMO, it is still my primary choir library....along with the old Symphonic Choirs (I love the individual sections and soloists). There are many pro composers still using both of these. These with, along with Oceania = EPIC.
> 
> You can't compare OT with EW, two completely different models. Sure, OT invests a lot of $$ into their development, but it comes with a price to the consumer. You probably own several EW libraries, but do you own the entire OT collection? Or at least the Berlin series? Probably not, as it would cost you a small fortune (but I'm sure they are worth it).


I haven't mentioned OT in my post at all, I mentioned VSL. But then again who compared EW with VSL? Please read the post again.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Wlad said:


> I haven't mentioned OT in my post at all, I mentioned VSL. But then again who compared EW with VSL? Please read the post again.


Yes, my bad....but I'll lump VSL into the same category as OT. I will probably never own a VSL library (other an VEPro), you pay a premium for their libraries and there are so many that it makes your head spin, especially as a newcomer to VSL. EW doesn't need to pump out more and more orchestral libraries, they already have some of the best out there....still. Why recreate the wheel so-to-speak? 
Anyways, maybe I'm just blowing smoke up my arse, just my 2 cents


----------



## szczaw

Jeremy Spencer said:


> EW doesn't need to pump out more and more orchestral libraries, they already have some of the best out there....still. Why recreate the wheel so-to-speak?


If pumping out more orchestral libraries generate profit then why not ?


----------



## szczaw

For a long time I couldn't make head or tail of VSL catalog, but clearly that works for them.


----------



## yellow_lupine

here you go:






Product List - Vienna Symphonic Library


The Product List gives you an overview of our products, providing quick access to what you're searching for.




www.vsl.co.at


----------



## Evans

Deciphering Vienna's different products


Don't ask me why I took the time to make this... I'm just tired and sometimes I do weird things when I'm tired. Anyway, to the point of the OP: Great people, but if VEP were 100% free w/ a plugin/library store, where you could see library limits in-app and hear a 5 note demo while working on...




vi-control.net


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

yellow_lupine said:


> here you go:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Product List - Vienna Symphonic Library
> 
> 
> The Product List gives you an overview of our products, providing quick access to what you're searching for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vsl.co.at


Lol! I wonder what the cost would be for the whole collection?


----------



## Wlad

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Yes, my bad....but I'll lump VSL into the same category as OT. I will probably never own a VSL library (other an VEPro), you pay a premium for their libraries and there are so many that it makes your head spin, especially as a newcomer to VSL. EW doesn't need to pump out more and more orchestral libraries, they already have some of the best out there....still. Why recreate the wheel so-to-speak?
> Anyways, maybe I'm just blowing smoke up my arse, just my 2 cents


I get your point, but the prices of VSL libraries are not much higher than the prices of EW libraries when they are not on sale. For example, VSL Synchron Strings Pro that came out in 2020 costs 445 euros. That is a pretty normal price for a string library.

On another note, Spitfire, for example, has I don't know how many string libraries... 5-6 maybe. And that works for them. You can say "I don't like these four, but this one is exactly what I'm after". Every library has a different flavor and is tailored for a different task. There are a number of libraries that sound better than Hollywood Strings (in my opinion) and are a lot easier to work with. That is why most professionals don't use them anymore. I always hear stories on VI about how most professionals are using them, but that is not true. For anyone who thinks differently please find at least three professional composers working in the film or gaming industry and post their YouTube links where we can see them using the Hollywood Orchestra or Hollywood Choirs. It is a 10-year-old library, there must be tones of videos of professionals using them. EW has great libraries, but all of them are from a different era, and putting them in a new player won't make them new. That is why they have to pump out more libraries. It doesn't have to be orchestral, it could potentially be RA 2 or something along the lines.


----------



## Wlad

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Lol! I wonder what the cost would be for the whole collection?


You don't need the whole collection, you only buy what you need. Some VSL libraries are separated into small ensembles which you can buy "a la carte".


----------



## Trax

That's just a list of products. He means like what separates the various string libraries eg.


----------



## Wlad

If you want the latest stuff, you only look at Synchron and Synchron-ized libraries, and Big Bang.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Lol! I wonder what the cost would be for the whole collection?


At the moment not "that" much. The super package (containing all of the older VI instruments) is around 5,550 €. And that's an insanely huge amount of high-quality content.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Evans said:


> Deciphering Vienna's different products
> 
> 
> Don't ask me why I took the time to make this... I'm just tired and sometimes I do weird things when I'm tired. Anyway, to the point of the OP: Great people, but if VEP were 100% free w/ a plugin/library store, where you could see library limits in-app and hear a 5 note demo while working on...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net


I love how I find this as baffling as the website it is attempting to "explain". 

I love VSL-- started out with their stuff in a MIDI lab in college and scored quite a few student films successfully with their products, but I have to say, their catalogue is an absolute mess that needs significant streamlining and simplification.


----------



## Quantum Leap

Wlad said:


> I'm not saying that Pop Brass or any of those libraries are bad. Libraries like that are needed. It is just a shame that this is the best this company is able to output. Those are the kind of libraries two guys in their home studio or companies on the rise are making.
> 
> EW owns a wonderfully scoring stage. Instead of using the hell out of it and record some big stuff, you are recording a singer here and there. Look at VSL... they built the Synchron Stage and they are recording in it non-stop, covid, or no covid.
> 
> Regarding the Hollywood Choirs... users would not agree with you that this is the best choir library ever made cause hardly anyone is using it these days. Again, not saying that it is a bad library, far from it.
> 
> Nick, real friends are not those who are going to pat you on the shoulder while you are making the mess out of your life, like some users here do. Real friends are able to see that you are in a problem, they criticize you, they are honest with you, and try to bring out the best in you.
> 
> I love you and I'm hoping to see Two Steps from Hell on tour in Europe this year, if COVID allows it.


I don’t agree with some of this, but the short answer is we are not recording samples in there all day because we don’t want to. In the last few years, that studio has had more Grammys than any other studio in the US. Sampling is a side gig to everything else. Doug is actually more interested in fostering good music than making money these days. Two Steps From Hell is a lot more important to me than sampling, but interestingly TSFH wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for my sampling career. So maybe that’s why I keep on doing it. Thats not to say that we don’t give it 100% when we start a sampling project, because we really do, but sampling will send you to an early grave FYI. I also believe that the only way to be successful at sampling is take breaks, write music and attack it from different angles. I learned some things about trumpets when I did Hollywood pop brass and then used those samples in some music. I then applied that to the new trumpets in Opus. I don’t think it’s a good idea to tell people what they are doing wrong, unless you really understand the whole picture. No one here does or possibly could. You can never understand other people’s motivations, heart and soul and bank account. This forum has been telling EW what a bad business they run for 20 years. Literally. It’s a theme. What if I told you that Hollywood Pop Brass outsold BBC Orchestra? Thats sounds ridiculous and impossible right? has to be BS. No way in hell.


----------



## Wlad

Quantum Leap said:


> I don’t agree with some of this, but the short answer is we are not recording samples in there all day because we don’t want to. In the last few years, that studio has had more Grammys than any other studio in the US. Sampling is a side gig to everything else. Doug is actually more interested in fostering good music than making money these days. Two Steps From Hell is a lot more important to me than sampling, but interestingly TSFH wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for my sampling career. So maybe that’s why I keep on doing it. Thats not to say that we don’t give it 100% when we start a sampling project, because we really do, but sampling will send you to an early grave FYI. I also believe that the only way to be successful at sampling is take breaks, write music and attack it from different angles. I learned some things about trumpets when I did Hollywood pop brass and then used those samples in some music. I then applied that to the new trumpets in Opus. I don’t think it’s a good idea to tell people what they are doing wrong, unless you really understand the whole picture. No one here does or possibly could. You can never understand other people’s motivations, heart and soul and bank account. This forum has been telling EW what a bad business they run for 20 years. Literally. It’s a theme. What if I told you that Hollywood Pop Brass outsold BBC Orchestra? Thats sounds ridiculous and impossible right? has to be BS. No way in hell.


Thank you very much for clarifying that. As I said, I came from a place where EW was the biggest sampling company in the business. Now that I know that both you and Doug are looking elsewhere, it puts all of this into a different perspective. It shows us, the users, what we could and could not expect from the company. I know that sampling is a tedious job, and I totally respect that both Doug and you have moved on to better things. The loudest people on this thread are the ones that had a deeper connection with EastWest libraries. It hurt us that we don't get as much new content as we used to, it hurt us that the content that we get is directed more to record producers than to film/game composers (I'm not saying that it is not usable), and most of all it hurt us the way EastWest is communicating with its costumers. Now that I'm aware that sampling became EW's side gig, it is all much clearer. I'm not saying that this should give you an excuse to treat your customers like that, but at least now we know the reasons behind all of this and what we could expect from EW in the future. Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.


----------



## ChazC

Quantum Leap said:


> I don’t agree with some of this, but the short answer is we are not recording samples in there all day because we don’t want to. In the last few years, that studio has had more Grammys than any other studio in the US. Sampling is a side gig to everything else. Doug is actually more interested in fostering good music than making money these days. Two Steps From Hell is a lot more important to me than sampling, but interestingly TSFH wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for my sampling career. So maybe that’s why I keep on doing it. Thats not to say that we don’t give it 100% when we start a sampling project, because we really do, but sampling will send you to an early grave FYI. I also believe that the only way to be successful at sampling is take breaks, write music and attack it from different angles. I learned some things about trumpets when I did Hollywood pop brass and then used those samples in some music. I then applied that to the new trumpets in Opus. I don’t think it’s a good idea to tell people what they are doing wrong, unless you really understand the whole picture. No one here does or possibly could. You can never understand other people’s motivations, heart and soul and bank account. This forum has been telling EW what a bad business they run for 20 years. Literally. It’s a theme. What if I told you that Hollywood Pop Brass outsold BBC Orchestra? Thats sounds ridiculous and impossible right? has to be BS. No way in hell.


Tbh, I’m not surprised that pop brass has out sold BBCO; the main problem with EW is not the quality of the libraries it’s the terrible customer interaction. The upgrade policy has been a complete fustercluck for ages (it was cheaper for me to buy a complete new licence for Spaces II than it was to upgrade Spaces I). Then to announce a release date for HOOPUS and fail to deliver with, let’s be honest, a feeble excuses out new features being added (which just doesn’t add up tbh) and it’s plain to see you’re not making any friends.

I have a LOT of EW libraries and I’ve never had any issues with Play (apart from the fact you added the SSL fx for free after charging for it previously) but you guys are just continuously shooting yourselves in the foot.

I was really stoked for HOOPUS but tbh I’m about over it now.


----------



## Wlad

3DC said:


> Well as beginner I learned very fast that some of this telling from certain forum members is very poor attempt at smearing marketing. I understand some ( resolved ) cases but most of the comments are just endless whining IMHO.
> 
> I must say coming from my other profession where you don't get much for a lot of money this type of attitude is unbelievable to me. Our barely working tool ( DAW equivalent ) - The only industry standard is 1620$ a year subscription.


Use Blender and stop "whining".


----------



## cqd

They should really do something about the upgrade policy.. that is true..


----------



## darthdeus

ChazC said:


> Tbh, I’m not surprised that pop brass has out sold BBCO; the main problem with EW is not the quality of the libraries it’s the terrible customer interaction. The upgrade policy has been a complete fustercluck for ages (it was cheaper for me to buy a complete new licence for Spaces II than it was to upgrade Spaces I). Then to announce a release date for HOOPUS and fail to deliver with, let’s be honest, a feeble excuses out new features being added (which just doesn’t add up tbh) and it’s plain to see you’re not making any friends.
> 
> I have a LOT of EW libraries and I’ve never had any issues with Play (apart from the fact you added the SSL fx for free after charging for it previously) but you guys are just continuously shooting yourselves in the foot.
> 
> I was really stoked for HOOPUS but tbh I’m about over it now.


This so much. I feel like the only thing we’re really complaining about is the stuff that is not sampling, i.e. communication, sales, marketing of the release. I don’t think anyone here thinks EW products are bad in any way, but I also think that compared to other companies the communication around HOOPUS really isn’t great.

I’m in the same boat, my excitement is well over and while I would’ve 100% bought it when it was suppsed to come out I feel like I’ve moved on having read so many issues with pricing and stuff.

I think we all feel for the pain of tediousness of sampling, but it’s hard to find empathy for unfair/broken upgrade policies and weirdly changing pricing (i.e. the diamond upgrade).


----------



## Geomir

So, in the Super-Hyped OPUS Giga-Thread, after all the failures, the false information, the delays, the regrets, the refunds, the whining, the arguments, the fights, the zero estimation what "coming soon" means, EWQL itself jumps in to officially announce us (in a polite, emotional and personal way) that "_they have better things to do than producing sample libraries and they prefer to do it part-time_"?

Even if Hollywood Pop Brass sold better than Spitfire BBC SO? By the way I suppose there is no proof of that, right? I wonder if I should tag Spitfire to see if they agree with this statement.

Anyway... WOW... OK... Good to know... I suppose it's time to seek other companies that like what they are doing. Or at least they keep this kind of secrets to themselves.

P.S. That's a pity because I also own several EW libraries, I like them all, I have never had any issues with Play 6, and I have never ever whined about EW's products, pricing, communication or support. I suppose for everything there is a "first time"...


----------



## Fa

Quantum Leap said:


> I don’t agree with some of this, but the short answer is we are not recording samples in there all day because we don’t want to. In the last few years, that studio has had more Grammys than any other studio in the US. Sampling is a side gig to everything else. Doug is actually more interested in fostering good music than making money these days. Two Steps From Hell is a lot more important to me than sampling, but interestingly TSFH wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for my sampling career. So maybe that’s why I keep on doing it. Thats not to say that we don’t give it 100% when we start a sampling project, because we really do, but sampling will send you to an early grave FYI. I also believe that the only way to be successful at sampling is take breaks, write music and attack it from different angles. I learned some things about trumpets when I did Hollywood pop brass and then used those samples in some music. I then applied that to the new trumpets in Opus. I don’t think it’s a good idea to tell people what they are doing wrong, unless you really understand the whole picture. No one here does or possibly could. You can never understand other people’s motivations, heart and soul and bank account. This forum has been telling EW what a bad business they run for 20 years. Literally. It’s a theme. What if I told you that Hollywood Pop Brass outsold BBC Orchestra? Thats sounds ridiculous and impossible right? has to be BS. No way in hell.


The tone of the comment tells a lot about the mindset and background of the whole story, and confirms probably 80% of the complaints were totally justified, as several speculations 100% nailing the facts.

Again, nothing new, business is business... still I don't get why QL get disappointed or surprised by customers reactions. He thinks all customers should be very happy and patient that some musical super-heroes having so much business in real-life real-music still spend time sharing their professional secrets in producing samples and selling the result of so hard work for so little money to all of us...

This is an equally weird point of view than the point of the people blaming EW for "bad-business-management"... guys this is business, they have an offer, whatever they like, and you have the freedom, may buy or not, the way you like. As discussed already endless times, they obviously make good business and obviously earn money or they wouldn't act that way. 

So finally all-right mr. Phoenix, but still your company communication was unfair and poor, being proud of making money out of it doesn't make it better.


----------



## szczaw

Wlad said:


> The loudest people on this thread are the ones that had a deeper connection with EastWest libraries.


I think the depth of connection to EW is better measured in licenses own. My is 20 licenses deep.


----------



## JyTy

Quantum Leap said:


> I don’t agree with some of this, but the short answer is we are not recording samples in there all day because we don’t want to. In the last few years, that studio has had more Grammys than any other studio in the US. Sampling is a side gig to everything else. Doug is actually more interested in fostering good music than making money these days. Two Steps From Hell is a lot more important to me than sampling, but interestingly TSFH wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for my sampling career. So maybe that’s why I keep on doing it. Thats not to say that we don’t give it 100% when we start a sampling project, because we really do, but sampling will send you to an early grave FYI. I also believe that the only way to be successful at sampling is take breaks, write music and attack it from different angles. I learned some things about trumpets when I did Hollywood pop brass and then used those samples in some music. I then applied that to the new trumpets in Opus. I don’t think it’s a good idea to tell people what they are doing wrong, unless you really understand the whole picture. No one here does or possibly could. You can never understand other people’s motivations, heart and soul and bank account. This forum has been telling EW what a bad business they run for 20 years. Literally. It’s a theme. What if I told you that Hollywood Pop Brass outsold BBC Orchestra? Thats sounds ridiculous and impossible right? has to be BS. No way in hell.


Finally something I can reply to in this derailed thread! 

I love EW libraries, they sound great! I'm a CC + Subscriber for almost two years now... Insane value for the money!!! I also own a lot of other flagship libraries from Spitfire, 8dio, AI and others that I like as well but HWO is still one of my favorites (and I've heard a lot of composers do amazing things with it) - so I couldn't be more excited about OPUS!

I know how much work a project like this requires to deliver, so I wish you all the best and I hope you will be able to get it out soon  All the best! J.T.


----------



## Quantum Leap

Thanks to everyone that has joined me on a musical journey over the years. We are partners in all this. I’m grateful. I think I don’t really understand the complaining and parenting. EW is not my company by the way. I’ve only said this 100 times. I just produce stuff that I feel like producing. If you have complaints about EW pricing or upgrades, you are barking up the wrong tree. Lots of great samples from lots of companies. Lots of places to go for sounds. Why does it make some people so nervous that I don’t believe the customer is always right. I listen to everyone, but in the end I do what I think is right. I enjoy shooting myself in the foot by the way. It’s okay because I’m a centipede. Concerning my “tone”. Everyone gets the respect they deserve. It’s something that is earned. If you are somewhat competent and know what you are doing on some level, and are mostly respectful, you are my equal. If you are whiny dork who writes terrible music and goes on and on this and that instead of working on your craft, well.....you know. I’ll be back once OPUS is released in 2023.


----------



## Evans

_VI-Control: Musicians Complaining About Musicians _

(at least, in Sample Talk)


----------



## cqd

Quantum Leap said:


> , well.....you know. I’ll be back once OPUS is released in 2023.


Funniest thing I've read on the internet in a week..
(I hope it was a joke..)


----------



## Toecutter

Quantum Leap said:


> If you are somewhat competent and know what you are doing on some level, and are mostly respectful, you are my equal. If you are whiny dork who writes terrible music and goes on and on this and that instead of working on your craft, well.....you know.


Nice try! So can you speak to your superiors and let us know asap when OPUS is released and confirm if it will be a free upgrade for existing customers? Chop chop, we are waiting XD I mean OPUS and EastWest have your name all over it, you can't complain when people ask you questions. I know we are not worthy or your equal or some lame pretentious bs(seriously who even speaks like that) but at least pretend that you care...


----------



## MauroPantin

This is exhausting. I don't care about any of this personal stuff. I just want to see a generous walkthrough, hear some of the new sounds, and see OPUS in action so I can finally make a decision and move on


----------



## Fa

Quantum Leap said:


> Concerning my “tone”. Everyone gets the respect they deserve.... you are whiny dork who writes terrible music and goes on and on this and that instead of working on your craft, well.....you know.


Everyone gets the respect they deserve... you say that.

P.S. the people paying real money for the products deserve respect, whatever music they write, and whatever the way they spend their time, even whining in a forum.


----------



## Lazer42

MauroPantin said:


> This is exhausting. I don't care about any of this personal stuff. I just want to see a generous walkthrough, hear some of the new sounds, and see OPUS in action so I can finally make a decision and move on


I agree with this. Whether the sampling side of EW is a primary business or a side business or a passion project, it does produce >0 $ income for the company and for all the individuals involved in producing it, and I think all it would take for the vast majority of people to contribute to that >0$ would be to get some information on what this new product is going to do. If it's not ready yet it's not ready, but when it is ready, what will it be?


----------



## darthdeus

Quantum Leap said:


> Everyone gets the respect they deserve. It’s something that is earned. If you are somewhat competent and know what you are doing on some level, and are mostly respectful, you are my equal. If you are whiny dork who writes terrible music and goes on and on this and that instead of working on your craft


I'm sorry but this is so condescending. People easily spend thousands of dollars on these libraries, and for some that's a significant amount of money. Some might be saving money for months to buy a sample library only to be told that they don't deserve respect because they're not in the top 0.1% and express their voice in the only way they can be heard - on this forum?


----------



## Evans

darthdeus said:


> I'm sorry but this is so condescending. People easily spend thousands of dollars on these libraries, and for some that's a significant amount of money. Some might be saving money for months to buy a sample library only to be told that they don't deserve respect because they're not in the top 0.1% and express their voice in the only way they can be heard - on this forum?


I suppose this is a Drama Zone topic by this point, but to be fair to Nick, he didn't say that someone who has to save up for a purchase doesn't deserve respect. He implied that "whiny dorks" don't. With that said, I'd put some of his own comments here at "whiny dork" level. Probably mine, too.


----------



## JEPA

Quantum Leap said:


> Thanks to everyone that has joined me on a musical journey over the years. We are partners in all this. I’m grateful. I think I don’t really understand the complaining and parenting. EW is not my company by the way. I’ve only said this 100 times. I just produce stuff that I feel like producing. If you have complaints about EW pricing or upgrades, you are barking up the wrong tree. Lots of great samples from lots of companies. Lots of places to go for sounds. Why does it make some people so nervous that I don’t believe the customer is always right. I listen to everyone, but in the end I do what I think is right. I enjoy shooting myself in the foot by the way. It’s okay because I’m a centipede. Concerning my “tone”. Everyone gets the respect they deserve. It’s something that is earned. If you are somewhat competent and know what you are doing on some level, and are mostly respectful, you are my equal. If you are whiny dork who writes terrible music and goes on and on this and that instead of working on your craft, well.....you know. I’ll be back once OPUS is released in 2023.



That is one of the most arrogant comments I have seen here in VI-Control. Usually they come from ppl believing themself “superior” in writing music... miserable souls!


----------



## fourier

Evans said:


> I suppose this is a Drama Zone topic by this point, but to be fair to Nick, he didn't say that someone who has to save up for a purchase doesn't deserve respect. He implied that "whiny dorks" don't. With that said, I'd put some of his own comments here at "whiny dork" level. Probably mine, too.


I don't have much to contribute to this thread, but surely the key word here must be whiny. I can very much get onboard with this being a wonderful arena for musical nerds, geeks and dorks across the globe - and I'm definitely not about to put negative connotations on it.


----------



## I like music

MauroPantin said:


> This is exhausting. I don't care about any of this personal stuff. I just want to see a generous walkthrough, hear some of the new sounds, and see OPUS in action so I can finally make a decision and move on


The real OPUS were the forum friends and enemies we made along the way. 

You'll miss this, once it is released.


----------



## Evans

fourier said:


> I don't have much to contribute to this thread, but surely the key word here must be whiny. I can very much get onboard with this being a wonderful arena for musical nerds, geeks and dorks across the globe - and I'm definitely not about to put negative connotations on it.


That's fair, to an extent, but I'm not going to walk eggshells around a term that doesn't refer to a protected class in line with US federal anti-discrimination laws. I'm 1000% for _that_, but in ordinary conversation, "whiny dork" perfectly describes the situation. It hits home with me often enough.

Besides, the last line of your snippet illustrates how pointless it is to attribute a single, isolated meaning to a single word. Context matters (again, unless it's hateful language against a protected group).


----------



## fourier

Evans said:


> Besides, the last line of your snippet illustrates how pointless it is to attribute a single, isolated meaning to a single word. Context matters (again, unless it's hateful language against a protected group).


For sure, my daughter saying "oh, you're such a dork" with a poorly hidden smile when I'm breaking down the chord progression of the latest meme-song popping up, is definintly within the context of affection - but I suppose it has also been used differently. I don't mind owning the word if it helps removing some stigma for this generation, though.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Quantum Leap said:


> EW is not my company by the way. I’ve only said this 100 times.


Which is exactly why many of us are passed at EW...why can’t they post something about when Opus will be possibly released, etc? Simple update? They post a copy/paste generic answer on their FB page to those who ask, but that’s about it. The “official release” was over a month ago. That’s all we’re asking for, some simple good old fashioned communication. Many of us paid a lot of money to upgrade to Diamond, as EW made it seem like it was a “last chance” around Christmas. Now here we are two months later....


----------



## Evans

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Which is exactly why many of us are passed at EW...why can’t they post something about when Opus will be reseated, etc? They post a copy/paste generic answer on their FB page ti those who ask, but that’s about it. The “official release” was over a month ago. That’s all we’re asking for, done simple good old fashioned communication. Many of us paid a lot of money to upgrade to Diamond, as EW made it seem like it was a “last chance” around Christmas. Now here we are two months later....


This is generally true of any company: the more they say, the more they risk opening themselves to statements that get them in even more trouble.


----------



## Lazer42

fourier said:


> For sure, my daughter saying "oh, you're such a dork" with a poorly hidden smile when I'm breaking down the chord progression of the latest meme-song popping up, is definintly within the context of affection - but I suppose it has also been used differently. I don't mind owning the word if it helps removing some stigma for this generation, though.


My impression based on my life experience of working with people in different age groups and spending a great deal of time on the internet is that in 2021 (and for the past decade or so, at least):

* The word "geek" has almost entirely positive connotations at this point across most demographics such that it would be difficult to use it in a derogatory way even if intended.

* The word "nerd" has largely positive to neutral connotations across most demographics but can express derogation if used with a particular tone or within a particular context (as opposed to "geek" which if paired with a nasty tone would usually just the listener confused).

* The word "dork" tends to have negative connotations when used by elementary aged children and below and tends to have positive to neutral or affectionate connotations when used by most other age groups, but is sometimes used negatively depending on the context. The usage cited above seems to be intended to be at least somewhat negative, but it does feel at least a little strange to me as I don't notice the term being typically used that way anymore.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Evans said:


> This is generally true of any company: the more they say, the more they risk opening themselves to statements that get them in even more trouble.


But not even a statement, just an email or something that says something like “sorry for the wait, we’re working on a new flux capacitor and hope to release it by the end of April, stay tuned! In the meantime, here’s the upgrade pricing”.


----------



## Lazer42

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Which is exactly why many of us are passed at EW...why can’t they post something about when Opus will be possibly released, etc? Simple update? They post a copy/paste generic answer on their FB page to those who ask, but that’s about it. The “official release” was over a month ago. That’s all we’re asking for, some simple good old fashioned communication. Many of us paid a lot of money to upgrade to Diamond, as EW made it seem like it was a “last chance” around Christmas. Now here we are two months later....


I think the vast majority of complaints would vanish if any update were offered - even if no date was given, but there were just some more detailed information on what the product will actually do, what features it will have, etc.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lol this thread is full of a number of whiny dorks. Showing zero respect or understanding. Continually moaning about the same sh*t. QL calling it like he sees it.

OPUS will be out when it’s out. Deal with it. If you bought a CC license, get a refund. If you bought a full license, as I did, use EWHO as it is because it works as it is. OPUS will eventually show up and make it work even better. If you are just a forum troll and don’t actually write any music, maybe start practicing your scales. You can use legato, your favorite articulation!


----------



## gst98

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Lol this thread is full of a number of whiny dorks. Showing zero respect or understanding. Continually moaning about the same sh*t. QL calling it like he sees it.
> 
> OPUS will be out when it’s out. Deal with it. If you bought a CC license, get a refund. If you bought a full license, as I did, use EWHO as it is because it works as it is. OPUS will eventually show up and make it work even better. If you are just a forum troll and don’t actually write any music, maybe start practicing your scales. You can use legato, your favorite articulation!



Let’s take our pitchforks to the Spitfire thread. I hear Paul and Christian also are part time composers, and I can’t allow that. They clearly don’t care about us and don’t deserve our money if they aren’t dedicating 100% of their time to sampling.

Moving forward, I won’t be buy anything from a sample developer who has taken a vow of celibacy in the name of orchestral sampling.


----------



## Geomir

Quantum Leap said:


> Thanks to everyone that has joined me on a musical journey over the years. We are partners in all this. I’m grateful. I think I don’t really understand the complaining and parenting. EW is not my company by the way. I’ve only said this 100 times. I just produce stuff that I feel like producing. If you have complaints about EW pricing or upgrades, you are barking up the wrong tree. Lots of great samples from lots of companies. Lots of places to go for sounds. Why does it make some people so nervous that I don’t believe the customer is always right. I listen to everyone, but in the end I do what I think is right. I enjoy shooting myself in the foot by the way. It’s okay because I’m a centipede. Concerning my “tone”. Everyone gets the respect they deserve. It’s something that is earned. If you are somewhat competent and know what you are doing on some level, and are mostly respectful, you are my equal. If you are whiny dork who writes terrible music and goes on and on this and that instead of working on your craft, well.....you know. I’ll be back once OPUS is released in 2023.


Dear sir,

Unless your first name happens to be "Quantum" and your last name happens to be "Leap", please realize that you are posting here as a Company. Not everyone knows who you are. Might be ignorant, might be new in the field, might be of young age, might not care.

We just see the Quantum Leap Company posting here things like:
- We prefer doing other things than creating sample libraries
- I don't understand why you people are complaining to me
- Our X library sold better than Spitfire's Z library (!)
- OPUS will be released at 2023 (!)

Could you imagine VSL, Spitfire or Orchestral Tools doing here such posts? I leave this answer to you...


----------



## Lazer42

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Lol this thread is full of a number of whiny dorks. Showing zero respect or understanding. Continually moaning about the same sh*t. QL calling it like he sees it.
> 
> OPUS will be out when it’s out. Deal with it. If you bought a CC license, get a refund. If you bought a full license, as I did, use EWHO as it is because it works as it is. OPUS will eventually show up and make it work even better. If you are just a forum troll and don’t actually write any music, maybe start practicing your scales. You can use legato, your favorite articulation!


It's worth noting that for some, EWHO does _not _work as it is, at least not in a way that they can make use of. For example, although I have had a CC subscription for many years, I have not used the product much at all and had been looking to move on to other products in part because the lack of assignable key switches - or even simply the lack of the ability to use keyswitches at all to swap between most patches - makes it very cumbersome to use in my workflow and with my software. 

OPUS is a release which could make all the difference in the world for whether I continue to use EW products or whether I ought to switch to something else, and already I have passed up some very good sales on other products which I might consider using instead. I am patiently waiting more information on OPUS and I have not done much if any complaining here, but I definitely am getting more and more frustrated wit the lack of information and the way I feel strung along, missing other opportunities because I am waiting to learn if what EW has to offer will work for me.


----------



## Evans

Jeremy Spencer said:


> sorry


That's the big word that a lot of people want them to say, which they can't say.


----------



## Geomir

gst98 said:


> Let’s take our pitchforks to the Spitfire thread. I hear Paul and Christian also are part time composers, and I can’t allow that. They clearly don’t care about us and don’t deserve our money if they aren’t dedicating 100% of their time to sampling.
> 
> Moving forward, I won’t be buy anything from a sample developer who has taken a vow of celibacy in the name of orchestral sampling.


It was very recently when Spitfire delayed (for a few days) the BBC SO update. People were very upset. Countless of whining posts here as usual. You might be aware. Did you ever see Paul or Christian posting here thinks like:
- I forgot how sensitive the members of this Forum are
- The update will be ready at 2023. I am out of here

Could you ever just imagine them speaking like that to their own customers? Please try to understand the difference before you start making silly jokes about it.


----------



## I like music

I'm going to try to avoid the politics. In between all this I do want people to remember that HWO can be an excellent, excellent library. OPUS or not, if you are interested in a cheap but superb sounding library, then do at least consider this, and research it.

Here's @sIR dORT's work, using MAINLY HWO (strings are diamond, the rest is gold) with different choirs and some help from jxl bones I believe ...


----------



## Rtomproductions

Lazer42 said:


> It's worth noting that for some, EWHO does _not _work as it is, at least not in a way that they can make use of. For example, although I have had a CC subscription for many years, I have not used the product much at all and had been looking to move on to other products in part because the lack of assignable key switches - or even simply the lack of the ability to use keyswitches at all to swap between most patches - makes it very cumbersome to use in my workflow and with my software.
> 
> OPUS is a release which could make all the difference in the world for whether I continue to use EW products or whether I ought to switch to something else, and already I have passed up some very good sales on other products which I might consider using instead. I am patiently waiting more information on OPUS and I have not done much if any complaining here, but I definitely am getting more and more frustrated wit the lack of information and the way I feel strung along, missing other opportunities because I am waiting to learn if what EW has to offer will work for me.


That's an...interesting perspective. I made a good living for a number of years using (mostly) HO. I've since diversified a bit, but EW products still make a up an outsized percentage of my template.

FWIW, it doesn't really take me any more or less time to program EW products than anyone else's--at least, not if I want the end product to sound good. They all require pretty massive tweaking, workarounds, etc. I've accepted this as part of the deal. You're working with samples.


----------



## Evans

Rtomproductions said:


> That's an...interesting perspective. I made a good living for a number of years using (mostly) HO. I've since diversified a bit, but EW products still make a up an outsized percentage of my template.
> 
> FWIW, it doesn't really take me any more or less time to program EW products than anyone else's--at least, not if I want the end product to sound good. They all require pretty massive tweaking, workarounds, etc. I've accepted this as part of the deal. You're working with samples.


I agree with you. It's no less of a lift on my part than any other library with an extensive number of patches or articulations. Sometimes, EWHO can be a little faster for me, because it takes so well to reverb influences. For me, EWHO is "the one that takes well to reverb," and the OT Berlin series is "the one for which I don't need reverb" (as long as the recording space suits the project).

My projects that need a good range orchestral instruments are relatively few, so when I _do_ need them, I greatly appreciate not having to fight with a library to sit it in a mix.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lazer42 said:


> It's worth noting that for some, EWHO does _not _work as it is, at least not in a way that they can make use of. For example, although I have had a CC subscription for many years, I have not used the product much at all and had been looking to move on to other products in part because the lack of assignable key switches - or even simply the lack of the ability to use keyswitches at all to swap between most patches - makes it very cumbersome to use in my workflow and with my software.
> 
> OPUS is a release which could make all the difference in the world for whether I continue to use EW products or whether I ought to switch to something else, and already I have passed up some very good sales on other products which I might consider using instead. I am patiently waiting more information on OPUS and I have not done much if any complaining here, but I definitely am getting more and more frustrated wit the lack of information and the way I feel strung along, missing other opportunities because I am waiting to learn if what EW has to offer will work for me.


This is the grass is greener syndrome. Yes, you can jump to using other libraries - but EVERY library has its issues and quirks that you need to work with. Literally every single one. If you are hoping to find a library where you press a button and magically everything comes out perfect just as it was in your head, let me know if you do find it because I'll also buy it.

And in addition to Ryan's great walkthroughs on YouTube, maybe check out this demo project that uses EWHO to get some tips on how to effectively use it and create great music. https://synthestration.com/product/beyond-the-storm/


----------



## cqd

I want to restate that I'd prefer EWs approach to the spitfire "buy all of our 14 different orchestra's" hype marketing..


----------



## Trax

I don't understand why people are so antagonistic against the complaints, it's pretty much the internet. If you don't want to complain: don't. If you do, do. Those who can't complain, teach. 

I learned C++ and how to write VSTs cause of Hollywood Orchestra. I thought about waiting for OPUS to see if I needed to, at the time it was a month out, so I thought.


----------



## Lazer42

Rtomproductions said:


> That's an...interesting perspective. I made a good living for a number of years using (mostly) HO. I've since diversified a bit, but EW products still make a up an outsized percentage of my template.
> 
> FWIW, it doesn't really take me any more or less time to program EW products than anyone else's--at least, not if I want the end product to sound good. They all require pretty massive tweaking, workarounds, etc. I've accepted this as part of the deal. You're working with samples.


I do not use one track per patch. I know this is a common approach, but I prefer to use the alternative, hardly rare, method of keeping each instrument on a single track and using expression maps. Because multiple applications out there do not correctly map CC data to channels other than 1 when using expression maps, I need to be able to have each instrument as a single patch on a single channel and switch between different articulations using either a keyswitch or a CC. There are workarounds I have found for this, but they are cumbsersome and really slow things down quite a bit.

Of course you are correct that EW products can be used to produce a good sounding final result. This is why I have been hanging on waiting for OPUS rather than simply moving on. Nevertheless, the quality of the sound can be matched by other products which can fit into my workflow much more easily.

Furthermore, the limitations or - frankly, bugs - of DAWs and other software are not EW's fault, and I don't blame them for the fact that expression maps in various pieces of software do not work correctly. Nevertheless, it is the way it is, and has been for many years, and so even if it's not EW's fault, I still ultimately need sample libraries which I can use given the constraints of the software I have available to use. 

Finally, one might ask why not modify my workflow and start using a different track for each articulation. The answer is simply that the reasons I work this way are many and it is a much more fundamental aspect of my writing than the benefits of any given sample library. 

Plus, let's be a bit frank here: it's not like what EW products currently miss in this regard is some luxury or new or rare technology. Being able to set up key switches or CCs for different articulations is sufficiently basic that it ought to be possible already and if I can't make something work because of the inability to do this, then EW's product is at least as _much _at fault as a DAW which isn't mapping CC data correctly, since for most other products out there this would not be an issue.


----------



## Lazer42

ALittleNightMusic said:


> This is the grass is greener syndrome. Yes, you can jump to using other libraries - but EVERY library has its issues and quirks that you need to work with. Literally every single one. If you are hoping to find a library where you press a button and magically everything comes out perfect just as it was in your head, let me know if you do find it because I'll also buy it.
> 
> And in addition to Ryan's great walkthroughs on YouTube, maybe check out this demo project that uses EWHO to get some tips on how to effectively use it and create great music. https://synthestration.com/product/beyond-the-storm/


I have explained in my most recent post the problem I have with using EW libraries right now. I am not resistant to any library which I have to work with in some ways, but we're not talking here about the normal sorts of fiddling that a library requires. Rather, we're talking about something that is _literally not possible _in EW libraries right now, and to reiterate a key point: it's not something exotic. I'm not looking for a library which automates everything and works perfectly without any effort. That doesn't necessarily exist. The lack of customization available for the basic control of EW libraries is something entirely different. It's a kind of handicap which I have to deal with before even getting to the normal sorts of tweaking that are expected in any library.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lazer42 said:


> I have explained in my most recent post the problem I have with using EW libraries right now. I am not resistant to any library which I have to work with in some ways, but we're not talking here about the normal sorts of fiddling that a library requires. Rather, we're talking about something that is _literally not possible _in EW libraries right now, and to reiterate a key point: it's not something exotic. I'm not looking for a library which automates everything and works perfectly without any effort. That doesn't necessarily exist. The lack of customization available for the basic control of EW libraries is something entirely different. It's a kind of handicap which I have to deal with before even getting to the normal sorts of tweaking that are expected in any library.


You can use keyswitches to switch between patches though using Program Change / MIDI channel approaches. Lot of people do this with Play.

OPUS will improve this further.


----------



## Lazer42

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You can use keyswitches to switch between patches though using Program Change / MIDI channel approaches. Lot of people do this with Play.
> 
> OPUS will improve this further.


As noted in my previous reply, this is useless when DAWs and other software do not route CC data to any channel other than 1 when using this approach. Yes, you can change articulations, but you cannot control critical things like the dynamics for any articulations other than the first one.


----------



## Geomir

3DC said:


> I know you are going to hate me but you are mixing apples and oranges.
> 
> As far as I know Nick is external employee on contract of EW the other two guys from Spitfire Audio are actual company owners. Nick is legally not allowed to represent EW or give ANY statements in EW name. All he can do is post his opinions on this matter which he did.
> 
> The problem is some of you read things that are not there and some don't read at all. Also painting him as arrogant despite his achievements in the music industry is quite pathetic.


So anyone who has big achievements in music, or in any field, can be arrogant, insult others and being always excused? Sorry but your way of thinking is pathetic. And this is what gives the right to such people to behave like that.

Anyway, I am happy you enjoy it. Good for you.


----------



## SupremeFist

HOD is already great. HOOPUS will be even more great. Nick Phoenix's posts are funny. Let's all just have a beer and chill! 🤘🏻


----------



## Rtomproductions

ALittleNightMusic said:


> This is the grass is greener syndrome. Yes, you can jump to using other libraries - but EVERY library has its issues and quirks that you need to work with. Literally every single one. If you are hoping to find a library where you press a button and magically everything comes out perfect just as it was in your head, let me know if you do find it because I'll also buy it.
> 
> And in addition to Ryan's great walkthroughs on YouTube, maybe check out this demo project that uses EWHO to get some tips on how to effectively use it and create great music. https://synthestration.com/product/beyond-the-storm/


It's funny; I honestly thought I'd get that "easy button" with the Spitfire SSO "adaptive legato," but I'll just say that Andy Blaney's *good* demos all sound very similar for a reason 

It's great (and I mean *really great*) for some things, not so great for others. Still find myself tweaking it about as much as I'd tweak HO for the similar results, and I think I still prefer the sound of HS for ~60% of passages.

And don't get me wrong; I still LOVE Spitfire stuff. In fact, I love pretty much all my libraries. There's exactly one that I regret buying out of the hundreds I've purchased over the years, and I will never buy anything from that company ever again. I won't name names, but it isn't Spitfire, EW, or 8dio


----------



## Evans

Rtomproductions said:


> There's exactly one that I regret buying out of the hundreds I've purchased over the years, and I will never buy anything from that company ever again. I won't name names, but it isn't Spitfire, EW, or 8dio


Forum post history never lies.


----------



## Rtomproductions

Evans said:


> Forum post history never lies.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

SupremeFist said:


> HOD is already great. HOOPUS will be even more great. Nick Phoenix's posts are funny. Let's all just have a beer and chill! 🤘🏻


And don’t forget the soup!


----------



## Lazer42

3DC said:


> I know you are going to hate me but you are mixing apples and oranges.
> 
> As far as I know Nick is external employee on contract of EW the other two guys from Spitfire Audio are actual company owners. Nick is legally not allowed to represent EW or give ANY statements in EW name. All he can do is post his opinions on this matter which he did.
> 
> The problem is some of you read things that are not there and some don't read at all. Also painting him as arrogant despite his achievements in the music industry is quite pathetic.


The user name he is using is "Quantum Leap." That is going to suggest to most readers that it is an official company account, whether it actually is or not.

If I worked for Honda either as some kind of lower down employee or as someone on contract, I wouldn't be authorized to speak for the company - but if I started going on automobile forums or websites and posting things with the user name "Honda," it would absolutely be taken as an official answer and I would likely get into trouble with the company if I said something they did not approve of - or possibly even if they did. 

To be very clear I am *not *trying to say Nick should get in trouble or make a judgment of his posts here. I am _only _trying to point out that the analysis that "person X is not speaking for company Y because he isn't officially authorized to do so" is inadequate in this case.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lazer42 said:


> As noted in my previous reply, this is useless when DAWs and other software do not route CC data to any channel other than 1 when using this approach. Yes, you can change articulations, but you cannot control critical things like the dynamics for any articulations other than the first one.


Well there's no guarantee that OPUS will solve your workflow issues. If you are expecting a library or developer to work within your specific workflow and you don't want to modify it at all, well then, you might be in for a long wait.


----------



## Fa

To be very honest I don't care so much about the topic, but I come here from time to time because I'm curious about the evolution of this sometime predictable, sometime pretty unpredictable thread.

It's really funny how different and polarized are opinions and feelings, but there are some facts so close to "objective", to be almost indisputable  despite deviations distractions and OT comments.

I just talk about mine: if I did just 1/2 of what the guys of EW (employees or developers doesn't make so much difference IMHO) did and wrote to customers in my company, I had been fired before night come.

They are incredibly lucky being in this industry, so lucky they don't realize how much... or...

Or perhaps they perfectly realized that and laugh like mad counting sales and looking the "whiny dorks" complain, but still giving money and trust...

In fact they relegated the complaints to VI... after censoring and killing for years any attempt of criticism (fair enough), including technical debate and bug fixing (totally unfair), from any platform they can control, cleverly moving to FB the community, so they turned what was the EW forum in a pure advertising and overpromising web-show... think about it.


----------



## gsilbers

I check every so often on this thread and this release as it looks cool. 

but...


This seems to be the same as it was with PLAY 6....


they said it was coming like 10 years ago. 



and kept saying it coming...



and nothing... 


and nothing.... 


just waiting. 


IS this the same? 


Will this every come out?


----------



## Lazer42

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Well there's no guarantee that OPUS will solve your workflow issues. If you are expecting a library or developer to work within your specific workflow and you don't want to modify it at all, well then, you might be in for a long wait.


The one and only workflow issue I have is that if I use EW libraries I am required to either a) use a different track for each articulation or b) arrange a rather cumbersome workaround to get the software to route CCs to the correct channel. I am not sure if I am doing a poor job of communicating, but that's the only problem. Most other options out there will make this work without a problem. Yes, there may be other tweaks to a workflow necessary for one library over another, but with EW right now there is a major fundamental limitation that goes far beyond any of the kinds of things we're talking about with other libraries.

That there is no guarantee is exactly the point I'm making. I am passing up sales on other options which I know will solve this issue in the hopes that OPUS will take care of the problem, and I am getting frustrated at having no new information about OPUS which would help me to be more confident that sticking with it rather than investing in something else will pay off in the end.


----------



## prodigalson

Lazer42 said:


> The user name he is using is "Quantum Leap." That is going to suggest to most readers that it is an official company account, whether it actually is or not.
> 
> If I worked for Honda either as some kind of lower down employee or as someone on contract, I wouldn't be authorized to speak for the company - but if I started going on automobile forums or websites and posting things with the user name "Honda," it would absolutely be taken as an official answer and I would likely get into trouble with the company if I said something they did not approve of - or possibly even if they did.
> 
> To be very clear I am *not *trying to say Nick should get in trouble or make a judgment of his posts here. I am _only _trying to point out that the analysis that "person X is not speaking for company Y because he isn't officially authorized to do so" is inadequate in this case.


You don't understand. Quantum Leap IS his company but *Quantum Leap is not the company releasing this product. *East West is. East West sells a number of products created in collaboration with Quantum Leap but not all of them are. Think Orchestral Tools and Junkie XL. The Hollywood Orchestra was created in collaboration with Quantum Leap but is being sold* and marketed *by East West.

So yes, the user Quantum Leap is the official company account and the user Quantum Leap is authorized to speak for Quantum Leap. But Quantum Leap is not East West.


----------



## Jose7822

Lazer42 said:


> The one and only workflow issue I have is that if I use EW libraries I am required to either a) use a different track for each articulation or b) arrange a rather cumbersome workaround to get the software to route CCs to the correct channel. I am not sure if I am doing a poor job of communicating, but that's the only problem. Most other options out there will make this work without a problem. Yes, there may be other tweaks to a workflow necessary for one library over another, but with EW right now there is a major fundamental limitation that goes far beyond any of the kinds of things we're talking about with other libraries.
> 
> That there is no guarantee is exactly the point I'm making. I am passing up sales on other options which I know will solve this issue in the hopes that OPUS will take care of the problem, and I am getting frustrated at having no new information about OPUS which would help me to be more confident that sticking with it rather than investing in something else will pay off in the end.



You are definitely being misunderstood.

I completely understand your situation because I‘ve used the same workflow as you in the past. Placing each instrument of the orchestra in its own track has MANY benefits, such as having a smaller and thus more manageable project size, not needing to Copy/Paste notes from one track to the other in order to switch articulations, being able to use the Music Notation feature of a DAW, having a less convoluted mixing routing, etc. 

Like you said, this is a workflow that’s hard to achieve unless you use a DAW like Cubase which has Expression Maps. I too despise the one track per articulation workflow. To me it’s an archaic way of working.

Unfortunately I’m forced to work this way when using EW libraries since I don’t like Steinberg as a company. Even though I own Cubase 10, I prefer using Studio One 5. I know, it’s ass backwards. But I like to support companies that, not only offer great products, but also have a good relationship with their customers by communicating and offering great support. That’s something that Steinberg, as a company, lacks. But I digress.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I get what you’re saying (for whatever it’s worth).

Take care!


----------



## Lazer42

prodigalson said:


> You don't understand. Quantum Leap IS his company but *Quantum Leap is not the company releasing this product. *East West is. East West sells a number of products created in collaboration with Quantum Leap but not all of them are. Think Orchestral Tools and Junkie XL. The Hollywood Orchestra was created in collaboration with Quantum Leap but is being sold* and marketed *by East West.
> 
> So yes, the user Quantum Leap is the official company account and the user Quantum Leap is authorized to speak for Quantum Leap. But Quantum Leap is not East West.


Fair enough; this is something I didn't realize and it does change the overall picture.


----------



## Lazer42

Jose7822 said:


> You are definitely being misunderstood.
> 
> I completely understand your situation because I‘ve used the same workflow as you in the past. Placing each instrument of the orchestra in its own track has MANY benefits, such as having a smaller and thus more manageable project size, not needing to Copy/Paste notes from one track to the other in order to switch articulations, being able to use the Music Notation feature of a DAW, having a less convoluted mixing routing, etc.
> 
> Like you said, this is a workflow that’s hard to achieve unless you use a DAW like Cubase which has Expression Maps. I too despise the one track per articulation workflow. To me it’s an archaic way of working.
> 
> Unfortunately I’m forced to work this way when using EW libraries since I don’t like Steinberg as a company. Even though I own Cubase 10, I prefer using Studio One 5. I know, it’s ass backwards. But I like to support companies that, not only offer great products, but also have a good relationship with their customers by communicating and offering great support. That’s something that Steinberg, as a company, lacks. But I digress.
> 
> Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I get what you’re saying (for whatever it’s worth).
> 
> Take care!


Thanks.

Although I do not use Cubase, from what I understand it would not improve matters because Cubase is one of the applications which - again, from what others here have commented - does not map CC data to a new channel when the expression map says it should. 

For example, if you have a longs patch on channel one and a legato patch on channel two and use your expression map to set a group of notes to play on the legato patch, it would continue to send your CC data to channel one, so if you entered mod wheel data to control the dynamics, it would be going to channel one while the notes are being played at a static dynamic on channel two.


----------



## Quantum Leap

Listen, I’m sorry if I pissed some people off. I was playing Mortal Kombat 11 while posting last night. Lol. Why do all these dudes play as Skorpion? I hate Skorpion. The forum actually forced me to change my name to Quantum Leap a while back. I prefer just using my name. But I guess it makes sense: people should know affiliations.


----------



## Toecutter

LOL my previous comment to QL was a bit in jest but some of you take this sample business too personally. Save some of that rage to Abbey Road, Cinesamples and Sonokinetic upcoming releases XD


----------



## Toecutter

Quantum Leap said:


> Listen, I’m sorry if I pissed some people off. I was playing Mortal Kombat 11 while posting last night. Lol. Why do all these dudes play as Skorpion? I hate Skorpion. The forum actually forced me to change my name to Quantum Leap a while back. I prefer just using my name. But I guess it makes sense: people should know affiliations.


Some here will genuinely be pissed to know that you were playing Mortal Kombat instead of working on the video tutorials  Are they still coming btw?


----------



## curtisschweitzer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Well there's no guarantee that OPUS will solve your workflow issues. If you are expecting a library or developer to work within your specific workflow and you don't want to modify it at all, well then, you might be in for a long wait.


I would love to know what it is like to have every piece of hardware and software in my workflow designed to fit my preferences, because right now, none of them are (well, except maybe StaffPad in narrow cases). Working around design trade-offs is just part of working with samples and DAWs.

Indeed, it is one of the most important skills for success.


----------



## Jose7822

Lazer42 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Although I do not use Cubase, from what I understand it would not improve matters because Cubase is one of the applications which - again, from what others here have commented - does not map CC data to a new channel when the expression map says it should.
> 
> For example, if you have a longs patch on channel one and a legato patch on channel two and use your expression map to set a group of notes to play on the legato patch, it would continue to send your CC data to channel one, so if you entered mod wheel data to control the dynamics, it would be going to channel one while the notes are being played at a static dynamic on channel two.



Hmmm....I don’t think that’s true. At least I don’t remember this being a problem in Cubase. I’ve worked with Cubase since version 6, so I think I would remember this. I might have to pull it up again to verify though. But that would be a deal breaker, so I don’t think this is accurate.


*EDIT:* I believe what you are referring to applies when you use Cubase in a more traditional manner, where you set each track to a specific MIDI channel (without using Expression Maps).

Before using Cubase, I was used Sonar. There I would assign MIDI channels information to the notes themselves in order to switch articulations. I tried to do this in Cubase, but it was just not possible. Also, if I remember correctly, Instrument Tracks are locked to MIDI channel 1.

However, with the introduction of Expression Maps (plus other film scoring features), Cubase quickly became the best DAW to compose orchestral music with. All of the issues I mentioned earlier became a thing of the past. Maybe that’s what you’re referring to?


----------



## Markrs

I might be disappointed with EW comms (the delay doesn't bother me, that happens all the time in life). But I don't think it is worth getting angry or annoyed about. Just wastes too much energy.

The only difference for me, out of all this, is rather that get excited about a EW release or holding back money for it, i will probably ignore it until it is actually out, as if it was never mentioned or promoted.

Please also remember everyone there are people behind the names we see on the forum, so be kind.


----------



## Lazer42

Jose7822 said:


> Hmmm....I don’t think that’s true. At least I don’t remember this being a problem in Cubase. I’ve worked with Cubase since version 6, so I think I would remember this. I might have to pull it up again to verify though. But that would be a deal breaker, so I don’t think this is accurate.
> 
> 
> *EDIT:* I believe what you are referring to applies when you use Cubase in a more traditional manner, where you set each track to a specific MIDI channel (without using Expression Maps).
> 
> Before using Cubase, I was used Sonar. There I would assign MIDI channels information to the notes themselves in order to switch articulations. I tried to do this in Cubase, but it was just not possible. Also, if I remember correctly, Instrument Tracks are locked to MIDI channel 1.
> 
> However, with the introduction of Expression Maps (plus other film scoring features), Cubase quickly became the best DAW to compose orchestral music with. All of the issues I mentioned earlier became a thing of the past. Maybe that’s what you’re referring to?


I could be misunderstanding, but I'm basing this off of a recent thread here where somebody was asking for help with the issue in Cubase and there was a decent amount of discussion about this being a problem not only in Cubase but also in various other DAWs.

Edit: Here is the discussion: https://vi-control.net/community/th...nt-what-is-missing-today.104905/#post-4751718


----------



## gzapper

The HO sounds are really pretty nice, the only thing I'd wish for is more scripting and more logical choices for articulations and their naming formats. So that its set up in a way that lets you set up a template with a quick useful set of articulations in a fairly playable manner, instead of trying to figure out which of 6 or 7 spiccato patches do I want to use, or what StacSLRS Marc MOD SL really means and why should I use that instead of Shorts MOD speed.

They don't have to go all Joshua Bell (though personally I'd love that) but at least getting set up so you can design a template and have some more musically playable patches.

So if they spend some more time on their engine and scripting, even with just the same samples, I'd be happy.


----------



## AndyP

Don't we all enjoy private pleasures besides work to relax?
I think it is important that the tone remains appropriate, even when you are stressed. That applies to all of us (me included).

Maybe we just take a few deep breaths, hum a deep ommmm and practice patience. Just as if we were trying to stare down a cow. So ommmmm can also be replaced by a strong mohhhh (who let the cows out? moh moh meh moh).

Obviously a goat got in the way.


----------



## SupremeFist

gzapper said:


> The HO sounds are really pretty nice, the only thing I'd wish for is more scripting and more logical choices for articulations and their naming formats. So that its set up in a way that lets you set up a template with a quick useful set of articulations in a fairly playable manner, instead of trying to figure out which of 6 or 7 spiccato patches do I want to use, or what StacSLRS Marc MOD SL really means and why should I use that instead of Shorts MOD speed.


As a new HO user as of last year (though I had used EWQLSO a lot before that), I found the template by @Rtomproductions that you can buy from synthestration extremely useful in this regard. I figured he knew what he was doing choosing the patches he did, and just started writing with it. (I have since replaced one or two for my own personal taste.)


----------



## dzilizzi

SupremeFist said:


> As a new HO user as of last year (though I had used EWQLSO a lot before that), I found the template by @Rtomproductions that you can buy from synthestration extremely useful in this regard. I figured he knew what he was doing choosing the patches he did, and just started writing with it. (I have since replaced one or two for my own personal taste.)


i would love to get it, but I am on PC and it is Logic only. I actually looked at it when it first came out. I do have a few of the other ones and they are actually a good basis for a template.


----------



## Flyo

Hello here, a new user on Vi Control. My experience so far with EW was great until the announcement of the delayed Opus. I was ready to pull up the trigger the same day this was released. I hold up every buy on every sale entire year expecting the Opus, based on the first announce that it would be ready to lunch on the Summer of 2020. So I will end up buying another kind of Orchestra and lost the chance to get this on near future, because my last acquisition. As I user, composer, costumer i felt as so many here, misleading based on a false announcement, and that its if they will gave us a respectful answer I will felt much more pleased, but no, and that kind of treatment in this crucial time and crucial economy worldwide its a key. I really hope that this will come as soon as possible, and price related to the behavior to.


----------



## cqd

Libraries are delayed fairly regularly..
CSB and CSW were an age coming..
Yeah, they jumped the gun a bit saying it would be out for NAMM..

But like, it's a sample library.. there are others..go buy them if you want..
Opus will be out at some stage..
I'm sure everyone complaining will change their tune then..


----------



## Jose7822

cqd said:


> I'm sure everyone complaining will change their tune then..



Not me. But I mostly agree with what you said...kinda, lol.


----------



## Flyo

In fact the original relesase announcement was earlier than NAMM.


----------



## gst98

Geomir said:


> It was very recently when Spitfire delayed (for a few days) the BBC SO update. People were very upset. Countless of whining posts here as usual. You might be aware. Did you ever see Paul or Christian posting here thinks like:
> - I forgot how sensitive the members of this Forum are
> - The update will be ready at 2023. I am out of here
> 
> Could you ever just imagine them speaking like that to their own customers? Please try to understand the difference before you start making silly jokes about it.



Paul was pretty horrible to Daniel James, in a much more personal way than is happening here.


----------



## gzapper

SupremeFist said:


> As a new HO user as of last year (though I had used EWQLSO a lot before that), I found the template by @Rtomproductions that you can buy from synthestration extremely useful in this regard. I figured he knew what he was doing choosing the patches he did, and just started writing with it. (I have since replaced one or two for my own personal taste.)


I didn't know about those, though don't think that would help my DP and VE pro setup.
Setting up a BBCSO template is dead easy, I did set one up for HO but I just haven't even dug into using those sounds, its just not intuitive. Though they sound great.


----------



## Lazer42

The thing that has people upset is not the delay (look at the MSS thread where many of the same people reacted very differently to their announcement of a delay) and it's not the original announcement that had a premature release date. It's continuing to advertise the release as being on a given date, and continuing to for all intents and purposes take money for the product, after such time as it those who are upset believe they would have already known that it was not going to be released on time. 

Now this understanding _could_ be wrong. Maybe they really didn't know there would be a delay until the last minute. If so, simply saying something about it would, I suspect, calm a lot of people down.


----------



## cqd

gzapper said:


> I didn't know about those, though don't think that would help my DP and VE pro setup.
> Setting up a BBCSO template is dead easy, I did set one up for HO but I just haven't even dug into using those sounds, its just not intuitive. Though they sound great.


Hollywood orchestra is way more versatile though when you take the half hour to figure out the patches..how many different legatos are there?..As well as being half the price..


----------



## cqd

There's no such thing as bad publicity too.. ye're all having a canary here giving out about it.. Ye're just keeping it relevant and this thread at the top of the samples forum..

They played you all like a fiddle with dodgy legato..


----------



## Flyo

cqd said:


> There's no such thing as bad publicity too.. ye're all having a canary here giving out about it.. Ye're just keeping it relevant and this thread at the top of the samples forum..
> 
> They played you all like a fiddle with dodgy legato..


I think that all they need to say its a word to all with caring and understanding, even more now... not every part of the world its affected as the same economically and more by the pandemic crisis.


----------



## Trax

cqd said:


> I'm sure everyone complaining will change their tune then..


Why would that change? The complaint is about communication, it might fade into the past but that wouldn't be evident of a change of tune. People have stopped complaining a lot of Trump I've noticed, I guess they've changed their tune?


----------



## Jose7822

Lazer42 said:


> I could be misunderstanding, but I'm basing this off of a recent thread here where somebody was asking for help with the issue in Cubase and there was a decent amount of discussion about this being a problem not only in Cubase but also in various other DAWs.
> 
> Edit: Here is the discussion: https://vi-control.net/community/th...nt-what-is-missing-today.104905/#post-4751718



Well, I just opened Cubase 10 and everything worked as expected.

To explain, this is what I did:

For the sake of time, I opened an old project that already had Expression Maps. I soloed the Violins I and replaced the first 3 articulations with different long note articulations from Hollywood Strings Diamond (i.e. Sustain, Legato and Legato Slur). Then I modified the CC data for Expression and Modulation in order to make dynamic changes drastic. All of them followed accordingly regardless of their MIDI channel assignment.

Either the person in this thread does not use Cubase, or he is talking about something else. Imagine if you had this problem in Cubase. The world would never shut up until in was fix. That’s why I was surprised to hear you say that. Also, I don’t understand the complaints about the Expression Map editor. It’s so easy to create them!

Anyway, there you have it. If you want we can continue this discussion in private as to not derail this thread. Oh wait! Maybe it doesn’t really matter at this point given this thread’s trajectory thus far, lol. I’ll leave it up to you 😋.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

3DC said:


> I am new to the music industry but learning fast. One thing I learned is that there is no such thing as lucky. Its obvious to me you can only make it with serious knowledge and talent.


As a composer? Actually, luck plays a huge role, but that’s a whole different topic....


----------



## dzilizzi

Jeremy Spencer said:


> As a composer? Actually, luck plays a huge role, but that’s a whole different topic....


right place, right time. Then it helps to have talent.


----------



## Jose7822

Even though I agree that luck is up there, you still need to be able to bring the goods (so to speak). Too much competition out there to suck.

BTW, I’m not saying that you have to be John Williams level. Just decent enough. As a guitar instructor and a professional musician (with a degree in Jazz Studies), I can tell you that some people just don’t have it. I used to be of the belief that anyone could do it with enough effort. Nope!!


----------



## szczaw

cqd said:


> There's no such thing as bad publicity too.. ye're all having a canary here giving out about it.. Ye're just keeping it relevant and this thread at the top of the samples forum..


I think this thread provides a needed daily dose of drama. There's nothing else going on at the moment and that's why it keeps popping back up.


----------



## dzilizzi

szczaw said:


> I think this thread provides a needed daily dose of drama. There's nothing else going on at the moment and that's why it keeps popping back up.


True - Who needs soap operas with VI Control?


----------



## Trax

Jose7822 said:


> Even though I agree that luck is up there, you still need to be able to bring the goods (so to speak). Too much competition out there to suck.
> 
> BTW, I’m not saying that you have to be John Williams level. Just decent enough. As a **guitar instructor** and a professional musician (with a degree in Jazz Studies), I can tell you that some people just don’t have it. I used to be of the belief that anyone could do it with enough effort. Nope!!


 
Which John Williams are we talking about here?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Jose7822 said:


> Well, I just opened Cubase 10 and everything worked as expected.
> 
> To explain, this is what I did:
> 
> For the sake of time, I opened an old project that already had Expression Maps. I soloed the Violins I and replaced the first 3 articulations with different long note articulations from Hollywood Strings Diamond (i.e. Sustain, Legato and Legato Slur). Then I modified the CC data for Expression and Modulation in order to make dynamic changes drastic. All of them followed accordingly regardless of their MIDI channel assignment.
> 
> Either the person in this thread does not use Cubase, or he is talking about something else. Imagine if you had this problem in Cubase. The world would never shut up until in was fix. That’s why I was surprised to hear you say that. Also, I don’t understand the complaints about the Expression Map editor. It’s so easy to create them!
> 
> Anyway, there you have it. If you want we can continue this discussion in private as to not derail this thread. Oh wait! Maybe it doesn’t really matter at this point given this thread’s trajectory thus far, lol. I’ll leave it up to you 😋.


That's reassuring. But i think he's in Studio One so maybe it's a S1 problem and he got confused.


----------



## Lazer42

Jose7822 said:


> Well, I just opened Cubase 10 and everything worked as expected.
> 
> To explain, this is what I did:
> 
> For the sake of time, I opened an old project that already had Expression Maps. I soloed the Violins I and replaced the first 3 articulations with different long note articulations from Hollywood Strings Diamond (i.e. Sustain, Legato and Legato Slur). Then I modified the CC data for Expression and Modulation in order to make dynamic changes drastic. All of them followed accordingly regardless of their MIDI channel assignment.
> 
> Either the person in this thread does not use Cubase, or he is talking about something else. Imagine if you had this problem in Cubase. The world would never shut up until in was fix. That’s why I was surprised to hear you say that. Also, I don’t understand the complaints about the Expression Map editor. It’s so easy to create them!
> 
> Anyway, there you have it. If you want we can continue this discussion in private as to not derail this thread. Oh wait! Maybe it doesn’t really matter at this point given this thread’s trajectory thus far, lol. I’ll leave it up to you 😋.


Thanks for the effort. That's worthwhile to know.


----------



## holywilly

I was wondering do Composer Cloud X users get access to Opus when available? Or I have to upgrade to Composer Cloud Plus?


----------



## SlHarder

holywilly said:


> do Composer Cloud X users get access to Opus


Yes. The "moods" will not be as effective as they would be with all the mics of Plus. I'm certainly going to start with my X as I've been satisfied up to now. I see Plus as just a little extra frosting on the cake.


----------



## Jose7822

Trax said:


> Which John Williams are we talking about here?



I mean, we’re in a forum for composers, talking about making it in the music industry as composers. Seems pretty clear we’re not talking about the Classical Guitarist 🙂.


----------



## Toecutter

Quantum Leap said:


> I’m looking forward to using the new OPUS very soon.


----------



## Evans

Every time Nick comes here to post a comment like "when it comes out in 20XX," I hope he's just being a bit cheeky and that there'll be a sudden release the next day or so.

..............


----------



## BasariStudios

I miss the days when MSS was the THING on Vi Control.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Quantum Leap said:


> Listen, I’m sorry if I pissed some people off. I was playing Mortal Kombat 11 while posting last night. Lol. Why do all these dudes play as Skorpion? I hate Skorpion. The forum actually forced me to change my name to Quantum Leap a while back. I prefer just using my name. But I guess it makes sense: people should know affiliations.


Hate to say... it's Scorpion 

Anyway, great game
I just cannot seem to get good enough at it to beat the people that matter
Graphics are insane on my PC though...

Well, back to OPUS


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

dzilizzi said:


> i would love to get it, but I am on PC and it is Logic only. I actually looked at it when it first came out. I do have a few of the other ones and they are actually a good basis for a template.


Have you checked out the Template from Poundsound?
I have those and he provides the Gold and Diamond ones in the Template...

Very good and a great price 








PoundSound


Professional Cubase pro templates, video tutorials and more. 👊




poundsound.co.uk


----------



## Markrs

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Have you checked out the Template from Poundsound?
> I have those and he provides the Gold and Diamond ones in the Template...
> 
> Very good and a great price
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoundSound
> 
> 
> Professional Cubase pro templates, video tutorials and more. 👊
> 
> 
> 
> 
> poundsound.co.uk


Great templates! I believe the templates are done by @MarcusD


----------



## dzilizzi

Toecutter said:


> LOL my previous comment to QL was a bit in jest but some of you take this sample business too personally. Save some of that rage to Abbey Road, Cinesamples and Sonokinetic upcoming releases XD


LOL! You haven't been reading the Abbey Road thread obviously. I think I told a few people off.


----------



## BasariStudios

So...


----------



## Lewis Emblack

🤷‍♂️


----------



## Trax

There's no "so..." until March 21. The OPUS new month starts then.


----------



## Geomir

And what's gonna happen at March 21?


----------



## rnb_2

Geomir said:


> And what's gonna happen at March 21?


I believe that marks two months from the NAMM "release".


----------



## Wlad

March 21. is the last day of Q1.


----------



## doctoremmet

The start of spring, tra la la la la: OPUS.
Yeah.
No.


----------



## Flyo

Nothing yet... I need this to all my projects. I would prefer the Library was launched at the release date in 2020 (like first announcement was) without having additional recordings at first, and then added those via an update, if the programming not was the issue here.


----------



## Fa

You guys are special, we love you. But... now go home, peacefully...


----------



## darthdeus

rnb_2 said:


> I believe that marks two months from the NAMM "release".


2 months wow, time truly does move quickly ... it's feels almost as if it was yesterday when our hop(us)es were crushed


----------



## cqd

H(opus) springs eternal..


(Damnit.. could be waiting a while..)


----------



## chocobitz825

Does it not stand out to people that almost every release from the bigger companies ends up with these contentious countdowns where people demand more walkthroughs and samples, bicker over the reputation of the company, take sides with the bigger names in the forum, talk about how unfair the pricing is or how they need more information to decide if they’ll spend money on this or some other brand product...then it all gets to the release where we complain about price being higher than expected, and loyalty discounts, and then someone uploads test samples to ease the concerns of people who want to know how well the legato works..a few days later someone finds a patch with an off tune note, others are still complaining about not having enough walkthroughs to make a decision...then people buy it, get used it, keep and sing it’s praises defending it from naysayers, while the leftovers sit around inquiring about Black Friday salesand throughout all of this not enough of us question if this is really all worth the drama.

I love some of EW’s sounds, but after years of this clunky PLAY engine I will never bank on them to be an enjoyable experience. Delays in opus are predictable, and I imagine once it’s out, people will praise its sound, and nitpick its execution, and this will go on for years until the next big product rolls out.

is it worth all the fighting for a product that is not going to be life changing? If you’re on the fence about opus, buy something else and skip ahead to the part where you wait for it to go on Black Friday sale. This only ends in Opus being either “pretty well done, but...” or “a total waste of time waiting for this.”


----------



## darthdeus

chocobitz825 said:


> If you’re on the fence about opus, buy something else and skip ahead to the part where you wait for it to go on Black Friday sale


feels like at this point most of us are here for the lulz ... it would be interesting to know how much money EW lost in the "launch excitement" ... I was definitely among one of those ready to pull the trigger with moneys saved up, but ended up buying something else instead and am more than happy.


----------



## BasariStudios

darthdeus said:


> feels like at this point most of us are here for the lulz ... it would be interesting to know how much money EW lost in the "launch excitement" ... I was definitely among one of those ready to pull the trigger with moneys saved up, but ended up buying something else instead and am more than happy.


Bought MSS and OT Berlin WW Soloists.


----------



## Jose7822

darthdeus said:


> feels like at this point most of us are here for the lulz ... it would be interesting to know how much money EW lost in the "launch excitement" ... I was definitely among one of those ready to pull the trigger with moneys saved up, but ended up buying something else instead and am more than happy.



That’s exactly why I’m still here, the lulz 😂 .

Most of us have invested so much time and energy waiting for HOOPUS to release that, at this point, we might as well see it through 😜.

I’m sure it’ll be great! Just not for me anymore.


----------



## Mystic

darthdeus said:


> feels like at this point most of us are here for the lulz ... it would be interesting to know how much money EW lost in the "launch excitement" ... I was definitely among one of those ready to pull the trigger with moneys saved up, but ended up buying something else instead and am more than happy.


Pretty much. I have high hopes but I called it all the way back on page 5


----------



## Getsumen

It's a ritual for me to just check in here every day to see how everyone is doing lol. Never owned an EW product but it sure is fun reading these.


----------



## larry777

The most interesting thing he said: " Lots of great samples from lots of companies "


----------



## dzilizzi

chocobitz825 said:


> Does it not stand out to people that almost every release from the bigger companies ends up with these contentious countdowns where people demand more walkthroughs and samples, bicker over the reputation of the company, take sides with the bigger names in the forum, talk about how unfair the pricing is or how they need more information to decide if they’ll spend money on this or some other brand product...then it all gets to the release where we complain about price being higher than expected, and loyalty discounts, and then someone uploads test samples to ease the concerns of people who want to know how well the legato works..a few days later someone finds a patch with an off tune note, others are still complaining about not having enough walkthroughs to make a decision...then people buy it, get used it, keep and sing it’s praises defending it from naysayers, while the leftovers sit around inquiring about Black Friday salesand throughout all of this not enough of us question if this is really all worth the drama.
> 
> I love some of EW’s sounds, but after years of this clunky PLAY engine I will never bank on them to be an enjoyable experience. Delays in opus are predictable, and I imagine once it’s out, people will praise its sound, and nitpick its execution, and this will go on for years until the next big product rolls out.
> 
> is it worth all the fighting for a product that is not going to be life changing? If you’re on the fence about opus, buy something else and skip ahead to the part where you wait for it to go on Black Friday sale. This only ends in Opus being either “pretty well done, but...” or “a total waste of time waiting for this.”


But, but, but the pretty colors. You got to buy it for the changing colors.


----------



## BasariStudios

I just can't let it go...


----------



## Trax

If you keep picking at scabs it will never heal. Out of sight out of mind. To thy own self be true.


----------



## dzilizzi

You know, as soon as we all give up on it, it will magically show up and no one will see it.


----------



## Zedcars

Apologies if this has already been posted, but this is the latest communique from EW I could find:


----------



## SupremeFist

Zedcars said:


> Apologies if this has already been posted, but this is the latest communique from EW I could find:


Cool, so some time in March they'll announce its coming "in the fall" again!


----------



## mr-sound

I'm also looking forward to Opus Edition. But the exact release date drags on for a very long time. 
Most of all I would like to appreciate the capabilities of the new engine.


----------



## szczaw

It's in beta so take it easy, and you'll get to play with it, before you kick the bucket.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

March is OPUS, HOPUS... HOCUS POCUS, even more likely HOPELESS 

OOPSUS, OPUS, POCUS, TOIL AND Plenty of trouble


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

So what is everyone here going to do when this releases and it either meets or does not meet expectations?... 
Oh of course, wait for the next product from SPITFIRE


----------



## szczaw

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> So what is everyone here going to do when this releases and it either meets or does not meet expectations?...
> Oh of course, wait for the next product from SPITFIRE


Nope ! I'm eyeballing MSS.


----------



## darthdeus

szczaw said:


> Nope ! I'm eyeballing MSS.


The MSS thread is at page 184 and this HOOPUS one is only at page 135. That's scientific proof that MSS is a better sample library, which is also why I ended up getting it! Can't argue with science.


----------



## szczaw

darthdeus said:


> The MSS thread is at page 184 and this HOOPUS one is only at page 135. That's scientific proof that MSS is a better sample library, which is also why I ended up getting it! Can't argue with science.


That's very true


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

darthdeus said:


> The MSS thread is at page 184 and this HOOPUS one is only at page 135. That's scientific proof that MSS is a better sample library, which is also why I ended up getting it! Can't argue with science.


Or perhaps scientific proof that working composers have too much free time on their hands to be in threads about Sample libraries... just a thought
Science... "always proving something else, slightly more than the obvious"


----------



## chocobitz825

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> So what is everyone here going to do when this releases and it either meets or does not meet expectations?...
> Oh of course, wait for the next product from SPITFIRE


*grabs a pitchfork*


----------



## cqd

Yeah, this will be pretty much my last library purchase..I have loads, and for a while now the "Buy everything!" mentality on this site has annoyed me..

Basari studios' other thread just showed it up..The amount of people saying "It doesn't matter if you don't use stuff" was weird I thought..


----------



## szczaw

cqd said:


> Basari studios' other thread just showed it up..The amount of people saying "It doesn't matter if you don't use stuff" was weird I thought.


People collect the weirdest things.


----------



## Zedcars

Star Wars Episode 10:
A New HOOPUS

_“A long time __to go before this library
sees the light __of day...”_​
Even George Lucas is going loopy about HOOPUS.

In a recent interview he said “It’s a whole lot of hoopla. With all this group fuss, they sure gonna whoop us! May the Force be HOOPUS. Yours, Mr Lucas.”


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## Gerbil




----------



## ChristianM

darthdeus said:


> The MSS thread is at page 184 and this HOOPUS one is only at page 135. That's scientific proof that MSS is a better sample library, which is also why I ended up getting it! Can't argue with science.





szczaw said:


> Nope ! I'm eyeballing MSS.


never will EastWest make a product as excellent as MSS


----------



## chocobitz825

I can’t keep up with all these virtual libraries...Im gonna switch to something much simpler and cheaper to collect in bulk...like analog synths 😒


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Zedcars said:


> Apologies if this has already been posted, but this is the latest communique from EW I could find:


Yeah, it’s in response to me asking them for an update on FB. Not sure why they didn’t just tell everyone this two months ago.


----------



## Evans

Zedcars said:


> Apologies if this has already been posted, but this is the latest communique from EW I could find:


While Nick's comment was only casual and by no means a commitment, there seemed to be a goal at the time of making a 2021 Q1 launch. "Expect some news in March" sounds like that could possibly be missed.


----------



## Zedcars

Evans said:


> While Nick's comment was only casual and by no means a commitment, there seemed to be a goal at the time of making a 2021 Q1 launch. "Expect some news in March" sounds like that could possibly be missed.


I think either they’ll release it at the end of this month or they’ll put out an official statement about a possible Q2 release. They might even release some demos to keep interest alive.


----------



## Zedcars

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Yeah, it’s in response to me asking them for an update on FB. Not sure why they didn’t just tell everyone this two months ago.


It’s hard to predict exactly how long a delay would be needed if they’ve hit some unforeseen developmental snags. The sparseness of news on this is certainly in stark contrast to other companies.


----------



## bvaughn0402

Sorry everyone ... I asked them to delay so I could recover from Black Friday sales ...

I guess they listened to me ...


----------



## doctoremmet

bvaughn0402 said:


> I guess they listened to me ...


----------



## BasariStudios

cqd said:


> Yeah, this will be pretty much my last library purchase..I have loads, and for a while now the "Buy everything!" mentality on this site has annoyed me..
> 
> Basari studios' other thread just showed it up..The amount of people saying "It doesn't matter if you don't use stuff" was weird I thought..


I was surprised by that too, quiet a few people said that.


----------



## AndyP

I hereby announce that we will announce in December that we will announce in January 2023 that the announcement of the final release will probably be slightly delayed! With kind regards


----------



## Jose7822

Loving the Star Wars memes, lol.


----------



## doctoremmet

Jose7822 said:


> Loving the Star Wars memes, lol.


----------



## Evans

Will someone please create a launch thread once HOOPUS is out?


----------



## Zedcars

Evans said:


> Will someone please create a launch thread once HOOPUS is out?


Maybe we should create a post-announcement pre-launch thread to anticipate the actual launch thread. This will be different from this thread which is a post-announcement pre-pre-launch thread.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## Zedcars




----------



## ennbr

The only reason I'm waiting on Opus is for the new Player I've been holding off adding HWO into my template so I don't do the work twice


----------



## dzilizzi

cqd said:


> Yeah, this will be pretty much my last library purchase..I have loads, and for a while now the "Buy everything!" mentality on this site has annoyed me..
> 
> Basari studios' other thread just showed it up..The amount of people saying "It doesn't matter if you don't use stuff" was weird I thought..


I keep saying that. After Sonokinetic's string library, I am done. 

But both this and MSS look interesting. Actually, if the Orchestrator will work with my HOD libraries, I may forget about MSS as it seems to take a lot of work to get a good sound out of it. I am not that good at sound design. So if Orchestrator does what TO2 does but with better instruments, I would be happy.


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> I keep saying that. After Sonokinetic's string library, I am done.


Sorry to inform you that you can never be done with Strings Libraries.


----------



## EgM

muziksculp said:


> Sorry to inform you that you can never be done with Strings Libraries.



I've been done with strings for a long time. Misc. solo instruments is another story


----------



## cqd

dzilizzi said:


> I keep saying that. After Sonokinetic's string library, I am done.
> 
> But both this and MSS look interesting. Actually, if the Orchestrator will work with my HOD libraries, I may forget about MSS as it seems to take a lot of work to get a good sound out of it. I am not that good at sound design. So if Orchestrator does what TO2 does but with better instruments, I would be happy.


Ah.. but like there comes a point where it's just a different tone, and it doesn't really make that much of a difference.. It's the actual music that matters.. On occasion I've spent ludicrous money on something to just go "meh.. well, it sounds a bit different I suppose..".. Maybe it's that I just have the different templates set up by different orchestra..I keep forgetting about the orchestrator though.. That's going to rock too..


----------



## muziksculp

EgM said:


> I've been done with strings for a long time. Misc. solo instruments is another story


Well, you have achieved quite an impossible task. So... Congratulations. You deserve an award.


----------



## EgM

muziksculp said:


> Well, you have achieved quite an impossible task. So... Congratulations. You deserve an award.



Seriously though, I can't say I wouldn't buy another string library but it would have to be way more than the current offerings. Like @cqd said, it's mostly about tone and sometimes about having more life into the samples.

I'm perfectly fine with VSL full appa, full orchestra (my fav for its ~180 patches per section!) , SE chamb, 8Dio adag/agita, EWHO diamond, Light&Sound CO for the time being

Only reason I'm patiently waiting for HOOPUS is for the assignable keyswitches, I don't care for orchestrator/moods or stuff like that.


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> Sorry to inform you that you can never be done with Strings Libraries.


I know. Part of me is sad about it. However, the part of me that likes buying things thinks a VI string library takes up a lot less room than another purse that sits in the closet because, in a similar vein, how many black purses does one woman really need? Okay, I could buy blue or red or taupe. Oh, wait, I already have those colors. More strings it is!


----------



## cqd

dzilizzi said:


> I know. Part of me is sad about it. However, the part of me that likes buying things thinks a VI string library takes up a lot less room than another purse that sits in the closet because, in a similar vein, how many black purses does one woman really need? Okay, I could buy blue or red or taupe. Oh, wait, I already have those colors. More strings it is!


Taupe is one of the better tape effects..


----------



## dzilizzi

cqd said:


> Ah.. but like there comes a point where it's just a different tone, and it doesn't really make that much of a difference.. It's the actual music that matters.. On occasion I've spent ludicrous money on something to just go "meh.. well, it sounds a bit different I suppose..".. Maybe it's that I just have the different templates set up by different orchestra..I keep forgetting about the orchestrator though.. That's going to rock too..


This is actually where I am getting. And so far, I haven't been sucked into CSS yet. For me it is more the sound of the room that drags me in. You can add it later, in some cases. But unless you are good, it never sounds the same. 

But I definitely spend more time buying than writing lately, which is not a good thing. Especially because my only excuse is I'm burnt out sitting at a computer all day.


----------



## dzilizzi

cqd said:


> Taupe is one of the better tape effects..


I got that on one of their recent sales.


----------



## Trax

EgM said:


> Only reason I'm patiently waiting for HOOPUS is for the assignable keyswitches, I don't care for orchestrator/moods or stuff like that.



I learned how to write VSTs just for that, well initially, I'm glad to have learned it.


----------



## EgM

Trax said:


> I learned how to write VSTs just for that, well initially, I'm glad to have learned it.



I've fixed that problem for myself with Plogue's Bidule, but it would still be nice to have an interface where one could actually load individual patches and be creative.


----------



## Crossroads

Honestly, for myself, workload is more important than sound quality, because we have reached that threshold quite a while ago. This will, indeed, be my last orchestral purchase for quite some time. I have it all. I cannot think of something my composing rig can't do. It's either this, or Iconica Opus because of, again, workflow...


----------



## Crossroads

dzilizzi said:


> This is actually where I am getting. And so far, I haven't been sucked into CSS yet. For me it is more the sound of the room that drags me in. You can add it later, in some cases. But unless you are good, it never sounds the same.
> 
> But I definitely spend more time buying than writing lately, which is not a good thing. Especially because my only excuse is I'm burnt out sitting at a computer all day.


Watch this:


----------



## Jose7822

Crossroads said:


> Watch this:




You want her to go through a 1hr video? Why? 😂 

I stopped watching the moment he said the developers asked for no guitars. No wonder I’ve never been interested in that game 😜.


----------



## dzilizzi

Crossroads said:


> Watch this:



Not sure what this is for. My pays the bills and allows me to buy lots of VI's job requires me to be at a computer all day creating spreadsheets and writing reports. Pre-Covid, there was a lot more out and about. 

Though really what has been stopping me lately is I am trying to set up templates with VE Pro using 2 computers. The idea is great - they both have 64 GB RAM. Spread the VI's over two computers and I have 128 GBs. Only it is a real pain. BBCSO was pretty simple. Kontakt? Not so easy. But most of my libraries on are the computer that isn't attached to the RME and speakers. Oh, well. I will figure it out. Though maybe I should write the steps down.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jose7822 said:


> You want her to go through a 1hr video? Why? 😂
> 
> I stopped watching the moment he said the developers asked for no guitars. No wonder I’ve never been interested in that game 😜.


I skipped the beginning, and cut out after about 15 minutes.


----------



## Robert_G

I'm not an EW fan, but this thread is like the CSW thread a few months ago...except that the cool guys from the CSW thread can't be bothered to come over here.


----------



## Trax

Robert_G said:


> I'm not an EW fan, but this thread is like the CSW thread a few months ago...except that the cool guys from the CSW thread can't be bothered to come over here.


Are we being insulted?


----------



## MauroPantin

Jose7822 said:


> You want her to go through a 1hr video? Why? 😂
> 
> I stopped watching the moment he said the developers asked for no guitars. No wonder I’ve never been interested in that game 😜.


Guitars are there. And they kick ass on top of that.


----------



## Jose7822

MauroPantin said:


> Guitars are there. And they kick ass on top of that.



I didn’t watch the whole thing, but he said that the developers hated guitars. They wanted synths. It sounded like Dubstep on heroin, lol.

Perhaps it was an example request. I don’t know, and I don’t really care 😜.


----------



## Flyo

Hello, can i ask what Sample Lib is called MSS?


----------



## Jose7822

Flyo said:


> Hello, can i ask what Sample Lib is called MSS?



Audiobro Modern Scoring Strings.


----------



## cqd

Robert_G said:


> I'm not an EW fan, but this thread is like the CSW thread a few months ago...except that the cool guys from the CSW thread can't be bothered to come over here.


*Ahem..


----------



## chocobitz825

I have no problem with people buying lots of libraries, whatever works for you. I think the two extremes common here are the people who buy tons of libraries due to GAS, but end up using none of them, and swear the next one is the last one they'll ever need. The other side is the minimalists who claim you can get everything done with one library. 

If you're going to buy a bunch of libraries, get the full value out of them. Learn them, and be brave enough to find out exactly where they fit. A different sound, even if subtle can be a part of your unique sound. Opus might provide a sound that Century Strings or CSS doesn't, and in the right project that might be everything towards making sure your art is not just put down as generic work done, but that it also has a bit of unique expression only you could pull out of the combinations you use. 

Be smart, and be bold. 

as for me, I've no desire to buy Opus, but since I'm still on EW's subscription, it doesn't matter when the hell this thing comes out...


----------



## Zedcars

chocobitz825 said:


> I have no problem with people buying lots of libraries, whatever works for you. I think the two extremes common here are the people who buy tons of libraries due to GAS, but end up using none of them, and swear the next one is the last one they'll ever need. The other side is the minimalists who claim you can get everything done with one library.
> 
> If you're going to buy a bunch of libraries, get the full value out of them. Learn them, and be brave enough to find out exactly where they fit. A different sound, even if subtle can be a part of your unique sound. Opus might provide a sound that Century Strings or CSS doesn't, and in the right project that might be everything towards making sure your art is not just put down as generic work done, but that it also has a bit of unique expression only you could pull out of the combinations you use.
> 
> Be smart, and be bold.
> 
> as for me, I've no desire to buy Opus, but since I'm still on EW's subscription, it doesn't matter when the hell this thing comes out...


I think the desire to own every major library out there can be damaging to your creativity and composing speed/efficiency. I wonder just how overwhelming it must feel for a new composer starting out today with this saturation of orchestral products and wealth of choice. I was lucky that I started using sample libraries quite early on in the late 1990s and would dream of all the Gigastudio pianos and orchestral libraries available at the time. I am not sure where I would even start if I was new to all this now.

Time is finite and probably one of the most valued of resources. It’s impossible to splurge on a bunch of libraries/plug-ins/synths etc and learn their full capabilities without using up a lot of spare time. Anyone who does that is not going to be very productive while they are learning how to use it all.

I noticed the Spitfire Audio Everything bundle is still being sold and is on sale at 34% off. Currently only £13669. Bargain! Grab it while you can. I know @redlester was lucky enough to win that bundle a few years back. I wonder if he has ploughed through everything yet? 

EW CC is similar in that you get access to everything but obviously much cheaper and it must be very tempting to go for that option if you are starting out. Again, I’d say the choice on offer can be overwhelming. A bit like going in to a sweet shop as a kid; without an adult supervising me I’d probably have gorged on as much as I could. You’ve got to have a bit of self discipline and self control to avoid tons of external SSDs stuffed to the brim with samples you’ll never play.


----------



## Markrs

Zedcars said:


> I think the desire to own every major library out there can be damaging to your creativity and composing speed/efficiency. I wonder just how overwhelming it must feel for a new composer starting out today with this saturation of orchestral products and wealth of choice. I was lucky that I started using sample libraries quite early on in the late 1990s and would dream of all the Gigastudio pianos and orchestral libraries available at the time. I am not sure where I would even start if I was new to all this now.
> 
> Time is finite and probably one of the most valued of resources. It’s impossible to splurge on a bunch of libraries/plug-ins/synths etc and learn their full capabilities without using up a lot of spare time. Anyone who does that is not going to be very productive while they are learning how to use it all.
> 
> I noticed the Spitfire Audio Everything bundle is still being sold and is on sale at 34% off. Currently only £13669. Bargain! Grab it while you can. I know @redlester was lucky enough to win that bundle a few years back. I wonder if he has ploughed through everything yet?
> 
> EW CC is similar in that you get access to everything but obviously much cheaper and it must be very tempting to go for that option if you are starting out. Again, I’d say the choice on offer can be overwhelming. A bit like going in to a sweet shop as a kid; with an adult supervising me I’d probably have gorged on as much as I could. You’ve got to have a bit of self discipline and self control to avoid tons of external SSDs stuffed to the brim with samples you’ll never play.


Totally agree with this. I have EW CCX, I have Komplete UCE 13, I have Omnisphere, I have Reactor 6 plus about 10 other synths, I also have a massive amount of individual libraries. It is an overwhelming amount of stuff.

I am trying to learn music theory, composition along with sound design, programming synths, whilst learning to work with DAWs or DAW like software such as Maschine. You then need to learn how to use all those libraries in a DAW to get them to sound reasonably realistic. Then you have all the FX plugins and learning to mix and master.

The part that is easiest is often the consumerist part, researching and buying libraries, synths, FX and hardware. So it is not a surprise that this is the part we gravitate to.

One thing that has become popular is self contained (no PC needed) grooveboxes. There is a lot to like about these to keep things simple. Now again you can end up connecting them to hardware synths and such and end up being overwhelmed. But if you stick with just creating music with the groovebox I think it could be very liberating.


----------



## Crossroads

dzilizzi said:


> Not sure what this is for. My pays the bills and allows me to buy lots of VI's job requires me to be at a computer all day creating spreadsheets and writing reports. Pre-Covid, there was a lot more out and about.
> 
> Though really what has been stopping me lately is I am trying to set up templates with VE Pro using 2 computers. The idea is great - they both have 64 GB RAM. Spread the VI's over two computers and I have 128 GBs. Only it is a real pain. BBCSO was pretty simple. Kontakt? Not so easy. But most of my libraries on are the computer that isn't attached to the RME and speakers. Oh, well. I will figure it out. Though maybe I should write the steps down.


It's about finding new creative avenues if you are feeling uncreative. Given the comment about buying instead of writing... even if you are not a fan of the music the creativity in the creation is genius and very inspiring.


----------



## chocobitz825

Zedcars said:


> I think the desire to own every major library out there can be damaging to your creativity and composing speed/efficiency. I wonder just how overwhelming it must feel for a new composer starting out today with this saturation of orchestral products and wealth of choice. I was lucky that I started using sample libraries quite early on in the late 1990s and would dream of all the Gigastudio pianos and orchestral libraries available at the time. I am not sure where I would even start if I was new to all this now.
> 
> Time is finite and probably one of the most valued of resources. It’s impossible to splurge on a bunch of libraries/plug-ins/synths etc and learn their full capabilities without using up a lot of spare time. Anyone who does that is not going to be very productive while they are learning how to use it all.
> 
> I noticed the Spitfire Audio Everything bundle is still being sold and is on sale at 34% off. Currently only £13669. Bargain! Grab it while you can. I know @redlester was lucky enough to win that bundle a few years back. I wonder if he has ploughed through everything yet?
> 
> EW CC is similar in that you get access to everything but obviously much cheaper and it must be very tempting to go for that option if you are starting out. Again, I’d say the choice on offer can be overwhelming. A bit like going in to a sweet shop as a kid; without an adult supervising me I’d probably have gorged on as much as I could. You’ve got to have a bit of self discipline and self control to avoid tons of external SSDs stuffed to the brim with samples you’ll never play.


I think there's this idea that we can teach people to not make mistakes...of course, it'd be great if people worked out the core ideas before buying a bunch of VIs, but if you already have, the best thing to focus on is making do with your situation. The best way to stop buying more is to learn what you have, so you can tell if you're really missing anything. I bought tons of strings libraries under the excitement of brand new sounds and sales pitches...and I don't actually regret it at all. When I sat down read a few manuals, spent a week going through and testing them, read the manuals and organize them, I found out what they all do and what they don't do. I've used them in projects with more precision lately because I know exactly what sound I'm going for and where to get it. And what do you know, I'm sober from GAS for more than a year. 

I'm glad I have the options. They're not confusing anymore. Two reverbs might do similar things, but they don't always sound the same. Sure I have a great song made with CSS, but I also have a far more lush romantic-sounding one made from a mixture of century strings and Afflatus. Does it matter? When I'm trying to make "my sound", yes to me it matters. I agree, it takes a bit of discipline, but I truly wish there was a better balance between practicality and unique creativity. Let's be honest, we're all creators, but we're not all unique. That's what I want to really learn how to master through discipline.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

muziksculp said:


> Sorry to inform you that you can never be done with Strings Libraries.


It's true...


----------



## Jose7822

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> It's true...



Jesus! I only have 4 Strings libraries. I need to step it up 😜.


----------



## Zedcars

You should never date violin players. They always string you along.

Mr Rope asked Miss String out on a date. She said I'm a frayed knot.

I ate two pieces of string once. About an hour later they came straight out my ass tied together.

I shit you knot.

(I'll shut the door on my way out...)


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> *Time is finite and probably one of the most valued of resources*. It’s impossible to splurge on a bunch of libraries/plug-ins/synths etc and learn their full capabilities without using up a lot of spare time. Anyone who does that is not going to be very productive while they are learning how to use it all.
> 
> I noticed the Spitfire Audio Everything bundle is still being sold and is on sale at 34% off. Currently only £13669. Bargain! Grab it while you can. I know @redlester was lucky enough to win that bundle a few years back. I wonder if he has ploughed through everything yet?


Never a truer word that the line in bold.

When I won the tombola in 2018 the first thing I had to do was to spend almost £500 on a 4TB SSD. I started to delve into it all, set up templates, got into Articulation Sets, spent much time learning techniques etc. But remember, I am a hobbyist, so whether I ever actually produce any output of note is neither here nor there to me, as long as I'm getting fun/enjoyment from it all.

Then all that got de-railed by two things - Coronavirus and Eurorack. Being furloughed by the virus was great at first, I had weeks of time available, and last summer even started on attempting to transcribe classical music from the sheet music into the DAW (Pictures at an Exhibition). Terrific fun. Then I was made redundant last July and the world changed, I'm still 5 years off retirement so could not afford to do nothing. Fortunately am back in work but had to go from the 4 day week I was previously on back to a full 5 day week. Add to that getting into Eurorack in a big way - which is so much fun I can't recommend it highly enough as long as you have enough cash to make it worthwhile - but in terms of consuming time it's an absolute beast. Mr Henson's Modular Mondays videos have an awful lot to answer for/to be praised for in this respect.

In my mind I have a plan to experiment (aka play around with) Eurorack in conjunction with sample libraries, I have the modules which allow me to link the two via ADAT. Who knows how many years that will take though. But it will be immensely enjoyable... as soon as I have the time!


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> Never a truer word that the line in bold.
> 
> When I won the tombola in 2018 the first thing I had to do was to spend almost £500 on a 4TB SSD. I started to delve into it all, set up templates, got into Articulation Sets, spent much time learning techniques etc. But remember, I am a hobbyist, so whether I ever actually produce any output of note is neither here nor there to me, as long as I'm getting fun/enjoyment from it all.
> 
> Then all that got de-railed by two things - Coronavirus and Eurorack. Being furloughed by the virus was great at first, I had weeks of time available, and last summer even started on attempting to transcribe classical music from the sheet music into the DAW (Pictures at an Exhibition). Terrific fun. Then I was made redundant last July and the world changed, I'm still 5 years off retirement so could not afford to do nothing. Fortunately am back in work but had to go from the 4 day week I was previously on back to a full 5 day week. Add to that getting into Eurorack in a big way - which is so much fun I can't recommend it highly enough as long as you have enough cash to make it worthwhile - but in terms of consuming time it's an absolute beast. Mr Henson's Modular Mondays videos have an awful lot to answer for/to be praised for in this respect.
> 
> In my mind I have a plan to experiment (aka play around with) Eurorack in conjunction with sample libraries, I have the modules which allow me to link the two via ADAT. Who knows how many years that will take though. But it will be immensely enjoyable... as soon as I have the time!


Wow. I think both string libraries and Eurorack should come with warnings about how much of a time and money sink they can be. More so with Eurorack modules as there are so many. I really could not be bothered with all that plugging in and wires hanging every which way. Just looks like a massive headache to me. lol

The twinkly lights do look lovely though and can imagine you feel like some kind of crazy scientist working on some weird experimental machine when you are playing with it all.

It's great that you are getting lots of enjoyment out of it. I'm in a similar boat in that I just do it for fun too, although would jump at the chance to work on a paid project.

I had assumed you got supplied the free libraries on SSD to begin with...but if you had to buy a new SSD are you saying you had to download it all?


----------



## BasariStudios

redlester said:


> Add to that getting into Eurorack in a big way


That screwed up a lot with me too. I added over 40-50k 
of Eurorack in a period of about 3 years besides all the
other gear, Libraries and ARP 2600 and got completely blocked.


----------



## dzilizzi

Crossroads said:


> It's about finding new creative avenues if you are feeling uncreative. Given the comment about buying instead of writing... even if you are not a fan of the music the creativity in the creation is genius and very inspiring.


Most of the time I do find new libraries inspiring. Doodling around with them gives me ideas. But I think the stuck in the house for a year except for grocery shopping started getting to me at the end of last year. I think having all this time at home is starting to stifle my creativity. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. Keeping my fingers crossed the vaccines solve this soon.


----------



## Crossroads

dzilizzi said:


> Most of the time I do find new libraries inspiring. Doodling around with them gives me ideas. But I think the stuck in the house for a year except for grocery shopping started getting to me at the end of last year. I think having all this time at home is starting to stifle my creativity. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. Keeping my fingers crossed the vaccines solve this soon.


I feel you. Yes, the starvation in actual personal contact does drill itself down into the soul. Slowly but surely. It's a hole even creativity can't fill, I'm afraid, as it is so innately human to converse and work and play with other humans.

I hope this pandemic does get people to think about what it is to be human again, a little more. The world had become a cold place. We should all be a little kinder to one another. We're all we've got, in the end.


----------



## BasariStudios

dzilizzi said:


> Most of the time I do find new libraries inspiring. Doodling around with them gives me ideas. But I think the stuck in the house for a year except for grocery shopping started getting to me at the end of last year. I think having all this time at home is starting to stifle my creativity. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. Keeping my fingers crossed the vaccines solve this soon.


Same here.


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Wow. I think both string libraries and Eurorack should come with warnings about how much of a time and money sink they can be. More so with Eurorack modules as there are so many. I really could not be bothered with all that plugging in and wires hanging every which way. Just looks like a massive headache to me. lol
> 
> The twinkly lights do look lovely though and can imagine you feel like some kind of crazy scientist working on some weird experimental machine when you are playing with it all.
> 
> It's great that you are getting lots of enjoyment out of it. I'm in a similar boat in that I just do it for fun too, although would jump at the chance to work on a paid project.
> 
> I had assumed you got supplied the free libraries on SSD to begin with...but if you had to buy a new SSD are you saying you had to download it all?


Ha ha no, it came on a single HDD but the old style 5400rpm which is not suitable for running the libraries from. I transferred it all to a single large SSD. Have since bought another 2TB SSD just specifically for BBC and Abbey Road because the entire Spitfire collection no longer fits on 4TB!!


----------



## redlester

dzilizzi said:


> Keeping my fingers crossed the vaccines solve this soon.


Have just had my first jab. Sat in the car for 15 mins now as instructed just to make sure no after effects.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

redlester said:


> Have just had my first jab. Sat in the car for 15 mins now as instructed just to make sure no after effects.


Did you get the single dose version?


----------



## SupremeFist

Markrs said:


> One thing that has become popular is self contained (no PC needed) grooveboxes. There is a lot to like about these to keep things simple. Now again you can end up connecting them to hardware synths and such and end up being overwhelmed. But if you stick with just creating music with the groovebox I think it could be very liberating.


Yes! I got a Roland MC-101 for my electro stuff and it is bliss to sketch ideas on quickly away from the big desk, on a sofa etc...


----------



## Markrs

SupremeFist said:


> Yes! I got a Roland MC-101 for my electro stuff and it is bliss to sketch ideas on quickly away from the big desk, on a sofa etc...


I watch some youtube videos by Gabe Miller Music, it's not really my type of music, though I enjoy listening to people make music that I oddly wouldn't listen to on spotify. He covers quite a bit on Grooveboxes and it is not hard to see why they are so popular. The have Pads, Knobs and led lights, and you can make noises with it. What's not to like! 



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl-C9hI0Km5jXfGq8l7Bxmg


----------



## redlester

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Did you get the single dose version?


No. In the UK it’s two doses, my next is in May.


----------



## BasariStudios

redlester said:


> No. In the UK it’s two doses, my next is in May.


You allright by now?


----------



## redlester

BasariStudios said:


> You allright by now?


All good last night. Feel slightly hung over (after zero booze) this morning but I think that’s normal.


----------



## M_Helder

Oh God. Why did I read through all of this...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

M_Helder said:


> Oh God. Why did I read through all of this...


Because you’re warped like the rest of us!


----------



## ChristianM

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> It's true...


Only this ?


----------



## BasariStudios

redlester said:


> All good last night. Feel slightly hung over (after zero booze) this morning but I think that’s normal.


Keep us updated. There is things that are more important than Hoopus.


----------



## HardyP

2 pages of non-HOOPUS... what a waste of time...


----------



## BasariStudios

HardyP said:


> 2 pages of non-HOOPUS... what a waste of time...


Not really.


----------



## EgM

SO5.2 got keyswitches pre assigned with VSL Sycnhron patches! Here's hoping the EW crew were in on this


----------



## Jose7822

I was wondering if perhaps I was missing something and you were referring to another sample library. But now I see that you had the scoop on Studio One v5.2. I went to the forum as soon as you posted your message, but there was no mention of it. Now there is.


----------



## Jose7822

Studio One 5.2 now has Expression Maps (Sound Variations). Nice!!


----------



## José Herring

HardyP said:


> 2 pages of non-HOOPUS... what a waste of time...


It was more interesting than the 136 pages that came before that.


----------



## Flyo

Hello, Apex sale of Spitefire of one day begins really soon. I really wait for Opus from the same day that was announced and was expected to summer 2020. I have Orchestra Diamond Ed. I brought one year before BBC appears... and i really like and dislike the software of EW in some many many ways, but Opus will bring the update that every wants. What would recommend to do, if the BBC appears on a good sale price? I need this or that to finishing my proyect. You would still wait for opus update or pay for another amazing library as BBC and his simplified software?


----------



## Flyo

In another note this will be my last orchestra investment in years ahead. And the other thing it’s nobody know how much will be the cost of Opus of course. I cannot exceed 500usd as much!


----------



## Wlad

Flyo said:


> In another note this will be my last orchestra investment in years ahead. And the other thing it’s nobody know how much will be the cost of Opus of course. I cannot exceed 500usd as much!


As you already have HO Diamond, I would go for BBC. HOOPUS won't bring much new to the table, but with BBC you will have a completely new library. With both HO Diamond and BBC you would be set for years to come.


----------



## dzilizzi

Flyo said:


> Hello, Apex sale of Spitefire of one day begins really soon. I really wait for Opus from the same day that was announced and was expected to summer 2020. I have Orchestra Diamond Ed. I brought one year before BBC appears... and i really like and dislike the software of EW in some many many ways, but Opus will bring the update that every wants. What would recommend to do, if the BBC appears on a good sale price? I need this or that to finishing my proyect. You would still wait for opus update or pay for another amazing library as BBC and his simplified software?


Apex sale is usually one product at 50% off. It may not be anything useful for you, unfortunately. Or it may be perfect. 

The Diamond Orchestra is good on its own, just a little complicated to use.


----------



## Flyo

dzilizzi said:


> Apex sale is usually one product at 50% off. It may not be anything useful for you, unfortunately. Or it may be perfect.
> 
> The Diamond Orchestra is good on its own, just a little complicated to use.


i think you already know what Spitefire will announce as 50% off discount. Thank for the tip I really don’t know that only one product was offered on Apex sale. I guess that BBC dont be that one. Thanks 💫


----------



## Flyo

So there it’s no other apparent option path on months ahead, rather than still wait for Opis and his announced upgrades prices paths.😓


----------



## Wlad

Flyo said:


> So there it’s no other apparent option path on months ahead, rather than still wait for Opis and his announced upgrades prices paths.😓


There may be a Spitfire easter sale.


----------



## dzilizzi

Flyo said:


> i think you already know what Spitefire will announce as 50% off discount. Thank for the tip I really don’t know that only one product was offered on Apex sale. I guess that BBC dont be that one. Thanks 💫


I have no idea what it will be, but it is unlikely to be BBCSO only because it is too new. Did you get the free Discover version. It is pretty good for a minimal version. 

Prior years' sales were things like Tundra, the discontinued Albion 2, Spitfire Chamber Strings, etc.... All good libraries but maybe not what you want. Next Christmas it will for sure be 40% off. There will be sales between now and then, but most won't be as much. Usually 30% off.


----------



## Flyo

dzilizzi said:


> I have no idea what it will be, but it is unlikely to be BBCSO only because it is too new. Did you get the free Discover version. It is pretty good for a minimal version.
> 
> Prior years' sales were things like Tundra, the discontinued Albion 2, Spitfire Chamber Strings, etc.... All good libraries but maybe not what you want. Next Christmas it will for sure be 40% off. There will be sales between now and then, but most won't be as much. Usually 30% off.





dzilizzi said:


> I have no idea what it will be, but it is unlikely to be BBCSO only because it is too new. Did you get the free Discover version. It is pretty good for a minimal version.
> 
> Prior years' sales were things like Tundra, the discontinued Albion 2, Spitfire Chamber Strings, etc.... All good libraries but maybe not what you want. Next Christmas it will for sure be 40% off. There will be sales between now and then, but most won't be as much. Usually 30% off.


I get Discovery but sound to wet and without Dynamics, it’s good for what it is of course, but I really dig into something more advance no doubt


----------



## robgb

I'm starting to wonder if this is vapor ware.


----------



## RightOnTime

robgb said:


> I'm starting to wonder if this is vapor ware.


Hollywood Orchestra: No-Hopeus


----------



## Flyo

I guess that the best way to keep on going it’s leave this thread living to reborn from and go home peacefully, then maybe EW comes around in some time and announce a firmly date and inobjetable prices at least. There it’s almost nothing more to say I guess. Hope every one of us and employee from their project are in good health and safe, that it’s the most important part of everything in this time around.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

robgb said:


> I'm starting to wonder if this is vapor ware.


It will join the shelf with Play Pro... perhaps


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Still, at least we will all be able to purchase Apple Silicon M4 Mac Pros to run it

2024 is lookin' guuuuuuuuud


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

I am beginning to wonder if EW can even launch a fart in a space suit?... joke

Sorry Nick. I am just bored at work at the moment!
No hate here

I am looking forward to the release


----------



## JPQ

EgM said:


> SO5.2 got keyswitches pre assigned with VSL Sycnhron patches! Here's hoping the EW crew were in on this


Really amazing thing.


----------



## HardyP

José Herring said:


> It was more interesting than the 136 pages that came before that.


maybe I should´ve pointed out that my message contained sarcasm et al...


----------



## ChristianM

Play dont run with Big Sur… To wait Hoppus is also to wait for to migrrate for Big Sur : EastWest is the weak link


----------



## gst98

ChristianM said:


> Play dont run with Big Sur… To wait Hoppus is also to wait for to migrrate for Big Sur : EastWest is the weak link


I've moved to Big Sur and Play works fine


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ChristianM said:


> Play dont run with Big Sur… To wait Hoppus is also to wait for to migrrate for Big Sur : EastWest is the weak link


Working fine here.


----------



## ChristianM

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Working fine here.


ah, ok, it's new ! Thanks


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

gst98 said:


> I've moved to Big Sur and Play works fine


Yeah I was confused by this message as well, because I have been to the Soundsonline website and it states that all EastWest products are compatible with macOS 11 Big Sur on Intel hardware


----------



## gst98

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Yeah I was confused by this message as well, because I have been to the Soundsonline website and it states that all EastWest products are compatible with macOS 11 Big Sur on Intel hardware


Well I've only been on it for 2 weeks but had no problems so far. Only thing I've had to to do was update UAD, everything else is working fine by now.


----------



## BasariStudios

Someone wake Him up please.


----------



## FKVStudio

A 50% sale has just been launched on East West products.

Is it worth buying now the Hollywood Orchestra Diamond is so close to the release of Opus?


----------



## doctoremmet

FKVStudio said:


> A 50% sale has just been launched on East West products.
> 
> Is it worth buying now the Hollywood Orchestra Diamond is so close to the release of Opus?


There is a very concise drama-less 140 page HOOPUS thread for that


----------



## FKVStudio

doctoremmet said:


> There is a very concise drama-less 140 page HOOPUS thread for that


They are sooooo many pages xD Can anyone make a slight summary?


----------



## doctoremmet

First hit in Google:


----------



## doctoremmet

You want to read this. It’s the summary:






Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest


Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.




www.soundsonline.com





Surprisingly... on the EastWest website 😂


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

FKVStudio said:


> Can anyone make a slight summary?


I think the consensus is that it is probably(!) better to wait for the release of HOOPUS and then buy the full thing. Someone reached out to the support and was advised to wait for the release instead of buying Diamond on sale. However, when I reached out to the support (about three months ago) I was told that the new engine would "probably be available" to owners of Diamond, so if you mostly want the new engine and are not that interested in the new content you should probably go for it.


----------



## FKVStudio

Laurin Lenschow said:


> I think the consensus is that it is probably(!) better to wait for the release of HOOPUS and then buy the full thing. Someone reached out to the support and was advised to wait for the release instead of buying Diamond on sale. However, when I reached out to the support (about three months ago) I was told that the new engine would "probably be available" to owners of Diamond, so if you mostly want the new engine and are not that interested in the new content you should probably go for it.


Thanks for your comment. I think I'll wait for Opus. It is likely that it would be more expensive to buy HWO and then upgrade to Opus, than to buy Opus directly.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Laurin Lenschow said:


> I think the consensus is that it is probably(!) better to wait for the release of HOOPUS and then buy the full thing. Someone reached out to the support and was advised to wait for the release instead of buying Diamond on sale. However, when I reached out to the support (about three months ago) I was told that the new engine would "probably be available" to owners of Diamond, so if you mostly want the new engine and are not that interested in the new content you should probably go for it.


I was told the opposite by support, more than once. EW encouraged the upgrades, and also made it clear that the new Opus engine will replace Play.

I ended up upgrading HS Strings and Brass for $49 each, and bought the full perc and winds Diamond for $124 each. Even if I don’t upgrade to Opus, it’s a killer deal.


----------



## Tremendouz

The consensus is that there is no consensus cause EW has given no ETA or pricing information. Some people have been encoraged (by support) to get Diamond while others have been told to wait so no one really knows what is going on.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

And here we are, nearly two months after the “release date”, and still not a damn peep from anyone other than Nick....who allegedly doesn’t even work for EW. Nice. They’ve even stopped commenting on their FB page. I just don’t understand the ignorance.


----------



## Flyo

This miss communication already cost me time, money, misunderstandings on forums and a few headaches. All we want to know is when and prices. We really need a little more information about this to put in order or scheduled productions and ours simplest daily math tasks.

Any information about this could be very helpful.

Thanks.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Flyo said:


> This miss communication already cost me time, money, misunderstandings on forums and a few headaches. All we want to know is when and prices. We really need a little more information about this to put in order or scheduled productions and ours simplest daily math tasks.
> 
> Any information about this could be very helpful.
> 
> Thanks.


Totally. And as petty as it may seem, I've been holding off building my new VEPro templates, as EW support advised me to hold off until Opus is released (this was in early January). There's no point in having to rebuild it all again since the new engine is replacing Play.


----------



## BasariStudios

I moved along long time ago...MSS ROCKS!!!


----------



## Dewdman42

what I can say is that so far EW has never discounted the upgrade price of Spaces II for owners of Spaces I. They routinely have offered 50% discount for new Spaces II user.

I suspect that waiting for OPUS will be more cost effective, wait until its on sale 50% off.


----------



## BasariStudios

Dewdman42 said:


> what I can say is that so far EW has never discounted the upgrade price of Spaces II for owners of Spaces I. They routinely have offered 50% discount for new Spaces II user.


I waited to Upgrade to Spaces 2 too but gave up.
Got SH, CR and Reverberate 3 Instead.

Same thing with Hoopus. Upgraded to Diamond HO
And then got MSS and like 5 other Libraries.


----------



## chapbot

Jeremy Spencer said:


> And here we are, nearly two months after the “release date”, and still not a damn peep from anyone other than Nick....who allegedly doesn’t even work for EW. Nice. They’ve even stopped commenting on their FB page. I just don’t understand the ignorance.


Sounds like a disaster to me. Maybe they discovered some fatal coding flaw and the whole thing collapsed LOL. Seriously, though, it does sound like something bad has happened.


----------



## robgb

doctoremmet said:


> You want to read this. It’s the summary:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soundsonline.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surprisingly... on the EastWest website 😂


Can someone explain to me what "that magical hollywood sound" means? I've been hearing about the hollywood sound for a couple decades now, but it just sounds like a marketing term.


----------



## MauroPantin

Just get composing and forget about this. Someday it'll be a nice surprise on your inbox, eventually. Not soon, though. "Expect news in March" without a date is not a confident statement. If you are within a month of an announcement and can't provide the exact date, then you are not within a month of that announcement, simple as that.


----------



## Dewdman42

robgb said:


> Can someone explain to me what "that magical hollywood sound" means? I've been hearing about the hollywood sound for a couple decades now, but it just sounds like a marketing term.



The Room.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Dewdman42 said:


> what I can say is that so far EW has never discounted the upgrade price of Spaces II for owners of Spaces I. They routinely have offered 50% discount for new Spaces II user.
> 
> I suspect that waiting for OPUS will be more cost effective, wait until its on sale 50% off.


What's ridiculous is a second license is the exact same price, there's no way I was shelling out another $200, hence the reason I spent the same amount on Cinematic Rooms (includes two licenses).

What's worse is the upgrade from Spaces is a difference $16....woo hoo!


----------



## robgb

Dewdman42 said:


> The Room.


Except that scores are recorded in many different rooms. So which one is magical?


----------



## doctoremmet

robgb said:


> Except that scores are recorded in many different rooms. So which one is magical?


The Hollywood scores recorded in London.


----------



## BasariStudios

robgb said:


> Except that scores are recorded in many different rooms. So which one is magical?


Most of them probably not even in Hollywood.
I think what they mean is ,,Hollywood" and "Movies".


----------



## dzilizzi

MauroPantin said:


> Just get composing and forget about this. Someday it'll be a nice surprise on your inbox, eventually. Not soon, though. "Expect news in March" without a date is not a confident statement. If you are within a month of an announcement and can't provide the exact date, then you are not within a month of that announcement, simple as that.


Didn't Nick tell us 2023?


----------



## ChristianM

dzilizzi said:


> Didn't Nick tell us 2023?


no, 2029


----------



## Tremendouz

ChristianM said:


> no, 2029


No, after I actually finish a composition instead of buying libraries and checking VI-Control.


----------



## dzilizzi

Tremendouz said:


> No, after I actually finish a composition instead of buying libraries and checking VI-Control.


Wait! What do you mean, compose? Are we actually supposed to use these libraries for anything other than to take up space on our fancy computers?  

Sigh, I knew I was missing something in the process.


----------



## Batwaffel

dzilizzi said:


> Didn't Nick tell us 2023?


Nah, Nick is too busy not caring about making sample libraries to even bother.


----------



## dzilizzi

Batwaffel said:


> Nah, Nick is too busy not caring about making sample libraries to even bother.


I think Nick does all the recording parts and leaves the rest to Doug. So he's probably been done with his part for a while.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Batwaffel said:


> Nah, Nick is too busy not caring about making sample libraries to even bother.


He’s busy making soup!


----------



## Geoff Grace

No soup for you!

Best,

Geoff


----------



## HardyP

Jeremy Spencer said:


> What's worse is the upgrade from Spaces is $16....woo hoo!


err... can you explain on that one please...?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

HardyP said:


> err... can you explain on that one please...?


Wish I could! here's the link..






Spaces | Reverb VST - Create Your Environment | EastWest


Spaces II VST plugin has a plethora of reverb options recorded in churches, concert halls, opera houses, catacombs, train stations, and warehouses.




www.soundsonline.com


----------



## dzilizzi

It is not letting me select Spaces. Is everyone trying it at the same time?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

dzilizzi said:


> It is not letting me select Spaces. Is everyone trying it at the same time?


Click the "Buy Now" button in the link, and you can select the options from a drop-down menu.


----------



## TopCat

HardyP said:


> err... can you explain on that one please...?


I think Jeremy may have meant that the difference between a new Spaces II license and upgrading to Spaces II from I is only $16. So the upgrade feels like a rip-off...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

TopCat said:


> I think Jeremy may have meant that the difference between a new Spaces II license and upgrading to Spaces II from I is only $16. So the upgrade feels like a rip-off...


Yes, good catch. I should have worded that differently. 

Full Version (or 2nd License) $199.50

Upgrade From Spaces $184


----------



## gzapper

TopCat said:


> I think Jeremy may have meant that the difference between a new Spaces II license and upgrading to Spaces II from I is only $16. So the upgrade feels like a rip-off...


All that for a subset of Altiverb's IR's, it looks like.
Mind you, I gave up using Altiverb when they went iLok and wouldn't allow drive authorizations years ago.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Click the "Buy Now" button in the link, and you can select the options from a drop-down menu.


I'm at the drop down menu and I select Spaces. But when I click the button, nothing happens. I do own Spaces II. So maybe I can't get it? 

Sounds like it isn't $16, just $16 cheaper. Not worth a second license.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

dzilizzi said:


> I'm at the drop down menu and I select Spaces. But when I click the button, nothing happens. I do own Spaces II. So maybe I can't get it?
> 
> Sounds like it isn't $16, just $16 cheaper. Not worth a second license.


Yeah, that's what I meant...it's a difference of $16. Not sure where they came up with that.


----------



## Trax

It's a discount not a dis count. /Oprah so stop dissing


----------



## dzilizzi

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Yeah, that's what I meant...it's a difference of $16. Not sure where they came up with that.


Got me all excited! My life is pretty boring lately.


----------



## Batwaffel

dzilizzi said:


> I think Nick does all the recording parts and leaves the rest to Doug. So he's probably been done with his part for a while.


That was a joke since he said he and Doug want to work on other projects and don't really like making sample libraries any longer.


----------



## Evans

Batwaffel said:


> That was a joke since he said he and Doug want to work on other projects and don't really like making sample libraries any longer.


_I don't like doing this, I don't even work for this company, and I dislike most of you. Please buy my software._


----------



## dzilizzi

Batwaffel said:


> That was a joke since he said he and Doug want to work on other projects and don't really like making sample libraries any longer.


I was actually going by the "About Us" on the EW site. And from what he said.


----------



## Jose7822

dzilizzi said:


> I was actually going by the "About Us" on the EW site. And from what he said.



I’m sure he was being sarcastic 🙂.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jose7822 said:


> I’m sure he was being sarcastic 🙂.


I'm sure he was. Especially the 2023 part. But they are working composers, so this is mostly a side-gig for them, like a lot of the sample developers. The music industry is very up and down, the more irons you have in the fire, the better you do in the long run.


----------



## HardyP

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Yeah, that's what I meant...it's a difference of $16.


aaah, I see... for me it read like "Cinematic Rooms has a crossgrade offer to Space users for $16"...
THAT would have been some leap forward !

sigh... anyone remembering those days, when competitors used that move, when the other one made some stupid move? Like Steinberg, when emagic went down the Apple road...?


----------



## Trax

HardyP said:


> aaah, I see... for me it read like "Cinematic Rooms has a crossgrade offer to Space users for $16"...
> THAT would have been some leap forward !
> 
> sigh... anyone remembering those days, when competitors used that move, when the other one made some stupid move? Like Steinberg, when emagic went down the Apple road...?



Tell me that story re emagic and Steinberg.


----------



## Jose7822

dzilizzi said:


> I'm sure he was. Especially the 2023 part. But they are working composers, so this is mostly a side-gig for them, like a lot of the sample developers. The music industry is very up and down, the more irons you have in the fire, the better you do in the long run.



I was referring to Batwaffle. He was being sarcastic and I think you replied to him seriously. But it’s OK. Sometimes it’s hard to tell when someone is being sarcastic 🙂.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jose7822 said:


> I was referring to Batwaffle. He was being sarcastic and I think you replied to him seriously. But it’s OK. Sometimes it’s hard to tell when someone is being sarcastic 🙂.


Ah, got it


----------



## BasariStudios

dzilizzi said:


> I was actually going by the "About Us" on the EW site


I was wondering the same today, if i could 
update from Spaces 1 to About Us.


----------



## BasariStudios

Just wait the next few days when Nick comes here and says
,,you guys are all i for a rude awakening''!


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## HardyP

Trax said:


> Tell me that story re emagic and Steinberg.


It was a kind of "oh, you poor PC guys, they shamelessly are putting your expensive hardware useless, so just send us your old dongle, and you will get our newest product for a great price"... excellent marketing move, I think
https://www.mixonline.com/recording/steinberg-offers-upgrade-emagic-users-emagic-release-logic-52-375657
To be honest, they seem to have something similar in place today (didn´t know that until today when I searched for old links):








Cubase | Four Times Your Favorite DAW for Production


Learn more about how to produce your music with Cubase.




new.steinberg.net


----------



## Trax

HardyP said:


> It was a kind of "oh, you poor PC guys, they shamelessly are putting your expensive hardware useless, so just send us your old dongle, and you will get our newest product for a great price"... excellent marketing move, I think
> https://www.mixonline.com/recording/steinberg-offers-upgrade-emagic-users-emagic-release-logic-52-375657
> To be honest, they seem to have something similar in place today (didn´t know that until today when I searched for old links):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cubase | Four Times Your Favorite DAW for Production
> 
> 
> Learn more about how to produce your music with Cubase.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> new.steinberg.net


TIL Logic used to also be for PC. I was hoping more for a story about missteps being preyed upon to cause a company to sink.


----------



## dzilizzi

Trax said:


> TIL Logic used to also be for PC. I was hoping more for a story about missteps being preyed upon to cause a company to sink.


If you owned a PC, you were screwed. Same with Camel Alchemy.


----------



## dzilizzi

BasariStudios said:


> I was wondering the same today, if i could
> update from Spaces 1 to About Us.


Only $299 for the upgrade. That gets you a nice little story.


----------



## Batwaffel

BasariStudios said:


> Just wait the next few days when Nick comes here and says
> ,,you guys are all i for a rude awakening''!


"OPUS is still not done but I want to announce Forbidden Planet is coming soon™!"


----------



## BasariStudios

Batwaffel said:


> "OPUS is still not done but I want to announce Forbidden Planet is coming soon™!"


You have better chances of seeing that.


----------



## ChristianM

And N ?


----------



## Akarin

Batwaffel said:


> "OPUS is still not done but I want to announce Forbidden Planet is coming soon™!"



Actually, the music of Half-Life 3 is planned to be written with OPUS.


----------



## BasariStudios

Akarin said:


> Actually, the music of Half-Life 3 is planned to be written with OPUS.


Did they write the Score yet??? Or waiting on Nick's Soup?


----------



## Trax

Happy 2 month anniversary.


----------



## I like music

Trax said:


> Happy 2 month anniversary.


It was dying off nicely here lol
Round 2 begins


----------



## BasariStudios

I like music said:


> It was dying off nicely here lol
> Round 2 begins


See you January 21 2022.


----------



## I like music

BasariStudios said:


> See you January 21 2022.


LOL this could be a joke, or a reality!

Or both


----------



## BasariStudios

I like music said:


> LOL this could be a joke, or a reality!
> 
> Or both


I am afraid that it seems more like a reality.
Keep an open mind.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

So no news for March... I am almost shocked, but not


----------



## cqd

I'm perhaps naively still holding on to the fact there's another week left..


----------



## BasariStudios

cqd said:


> I'm perhaps naively still holding on to the fact there's another week left..


Keep holding, don't let it go.
I let it go long ago with MSS.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

BasariStudios said:


> Keep holding, don't let it go.
> I let it go long ago with MSS.


 But MSS is a String Library, where as OPUS, is a whole Orchestra with Orchestrator... I don't get the comparison.


----------



## BasariStudios

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> But MSS is a String Library, where as OPUS, is a whole Orchestra with Orchestrator... I don't get the comparison.


Well i forgot to mention BBC SO PRO, ARO, OT WW.


----------



## szczaw

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> But MSS is a String Library, where as OPUS, is a whole Orchestra with Orchestrator...


And 400 presets. I'm assuming the user will be able to make his/her own presets and later make a tune in 5 to 10 minutes.


----------



## Trax

cqd said:


> I'm perhaps naively still holding on to the fact there's another week left..


8 Days. We can do a count down.


----------



## MauroPantin

Well... Yeah. Let's wait 8 days. And then let's do some more waiting. It's not like in 9 days if (when) there is no news EW is gonna have composers at the door of EW studios rioting and capsizing cop cars. We can do a countdown, but nothing is going to happen after it reaches zero. It could be fun, though. Maybe we can call it Y2Kv2

Anyway. Heed my call ye mortals. Abandon this thread and get composing. It's coming... When it's done*™*


----------



## janila

MauroPantin said:


> It's coming... When it's done*™*


It’s gonna come way before that.


----------



## Jose7822

janila said:


> It’s gonna come way before that.



The same way it was announced.


----------



## from_theashes

I‘m interested in Hollywood Orchestral Percussion Diamond for traditional orchestral percussion sounds (no processed hybrid booms and hits or epic drums like Damage 2). 
Does this library suit my needs? Or is it too outdated?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

from_theashes said:


> I‘m interested in Hollywood Orchestral Percussion Diamond for traditional orchestral percussion sounds (no processed hybrid booms and hits or epic drums like Damage 2).
> Does this library suit my needs? Or is it too outdated?


It is perfect for that application. No, it is not dated by any means.


----------



## from_theashes

Jeremy Spencer said:


> It is perfect for that application. No, it is not dated by any means.


Sounds good. 
Is the room dry enough to match with Spitfire Studio Orchestra?
I mean... I can get Diamond on current sale for 113€. Don’t think I can go wrong with that^^


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

from_theashes said:


> Sounds good.
> Is the room dry enough to match with Spitfire Studio Orchestra?
> I mean... I can get Diamond on current sale for 113€. Don’t think I can go wrong with that^^


I'm not familiar with SSO, but they are pretty dry, and the mic positions can certainly help.


----------



## cqd

The percussion is kind of most in need of the update I think.. yeah, the mics make it very flexible tone wise, but the rolls and stuff leave a lot to be desired currently..


----------



## mcalis

cqd said:


> The percussion is kind of most in need of the update I think.. yeah, the mics make it very flexible tone wise, but the rolls and stuff leave a lot to be desired currently..


How so? I'm genuinely curious, I don't hear much issue with them at all. Unless you mean that they don't have a natural release, so you have to add in your own last hit at the end of a roll. I've gone through HOP so extensively by now that I know where to find the samples where genuine recording mistakes were made, there's about three of them. I really can't think of anything I find to be wrong with the library in its current form, so I am curious to hear where you think it's flawed.

IMO, the woodwinds are in much more need of an update than the percussion. They've got excellent tone and are begging for better scripting.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

well...... 

enjoy the money of the CC subscribers at least!


----------



## cqd

mcalis said:


> How so? I'm genuinely curious, I don't hear much issue with them at all. Unless you mean that they don't have a natural release, so you have to add in your own last hit at the end of a roll. I've gone through HOP so extensively by now that I know where to find the samples where genuine recording mistakes were made, there's about three of them. I really can't think of anything I find to be wrong with the library in its current form, so I am curious to hear where you think it's flawed.


Yeah, that..and that a lot of the cymbal rolls feel just like a filter sweep at times..
Yeah, I actually dont think the winds are as bad as they're made out to be a lot of the time..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cqd said:


> Yeah, that..and that a lot of the cymbal rolls feel just like a filter sweep at times..
> Yeah, I actually dont think the winds are as bad as they're made out to be a lot of the time..


Although I like most of the cymbal rolls, I still use the cymbals/rolls from Symphonic Orchestra most of the time. IMO, they are still the best I’ve heard.


----------



## Kabraxis

MauroPantin said:


> Anyway. Heed my call ye mortals. Abandon this thread and get composing. It's coming... When it's done*™*


I only visit this thread once a month to satiate my bitter comment needs. Outside that time, I completed 2 projects, over 40 minutes of music since NAMM announcement, some with PLAY.

Yeah... git composin', people.


----------



## Evans

Kabraxis said:


> I only visit this thread once a month to satiate my bitter comment needs. Outside that time, I completed 2 projects, over 40 minutes of music since NAMM announcement, some with PLAY.
> 
> Yeah... git composin', people.


I visit this toilet of a thread when I'm on the toilet.


----------



## Johnny

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Although I like most of the cymbal rolls, I still use the cymbals/rolls from Symphonic Orchestra most of the time. IMO, they are still the best I’ve heard.


They sure are! I've been saying this for years! No other library has surpassed these sample takes as of yet- cymbal rolls, gong scrapes and aleatoric gong sfx included! (Just too bad I've been using them on every track for over 10+ years )


----------



## from_theashes

Jeremy Spencer said:


> It is perfect for that application. No, it is not dated by any means.


so, I had the opportunity to use Hollywood Percussions right away in a composition today... and it’s awesome!🤗 Everything sounds really good: snares, toms, cymbals and I love the timpani! Can’t believe this library was only 114€^^
And Play isn’t really that bad (though I prefer Kontakt)... it just looks very old school xD


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

from_theashes said:


> so, I had the opportunity to use Hollywood Percussions right away in a composition today... and it’s awesome!🤗 Everything sounds really good: snares, toms, cymbals and I love the timpani! Can’t believe this library was only 114€^^
> And Play isn’t really that bad (though I prefer Kontakt)... it just looks very old school xD


Excellent! I don't think it gets as much credit as it deserves. The new Opus player looks a lot better, it's supposed to replace Play.


----------



## cqd

So it's going to be released tomorrow one would imagine..


----------



## Evans

cqd said:


> So it's going to be released tomorrow one would imagine..


No, Thursday.


----------



## Leslie Fuller

from_theashes said:


> so, I had the opportunity to use Hollywood Percussions right away in a composition today... and it’s awesome!🤗 Everything sounds really good: snares, toms, cymbals and I love the timpani! Can’t believe this library was only 114€^^
> And Play isn’t really that bad (though I prefer Kontakt)... it just looks very old school xD


What! Where was it on sale for €114.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Leslie Fuller said:


> What! Where was it on sale for €114.


Each section (Diamond) is still on sale for $149 US (which is around 125 Euros). I have seen them on Audio Deluxe for $125 US.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cqd said:


> So it's going to be released tomorrow one would imagine..


Would would you imagine that?


----------



## muziksculp

Where is HOOPUS ? 🚔


----------



## Trax

There's still 3 days to March


----------



## from_theashes

Leslie Fuller said:


> What! Where was it on sale for €114.


AudioDeluxe:








EastWest Hollywood Orchestral Percussion - Diamond Edition


50% Off Spring Sale An utterly unique orchestral percussion library that completes the Hollywood series HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRAL PERCUSSION is a collection of 24-bit orchestral percussion instruments, offers unprecedented control over each instrument, and is a must have compositional tool for...




www.audiodeluxe.com





they still got extra 15% off


----------



## KitNexu

I highly doubt it will be released this month thb.


----------



## KitNexu

KitNexu said:


> I highly doubt it will be released this month thb.


*Tbh


----------



## reids

I highly doubt it will be released next month.


----------



## KitNexu

KitNexu said:


> I highly doubt it will be released this month thb.


Tbh


reids said:


> I highly doubt it will be released next month.


Ikr lol


----------



## Jay Panikkar

Meanwhile at EastWest HQ:


----------



## RightOnTime

KitNexu said:


> I highly doubt it will be released this month thb.


----------



## pcarrilho

At least with this waiting time, i hope Hoopus to be released with Mac M1 Native support


----------



## X-Bassist

pcarrilho said:


> At least with this waiting time, i hope Hoopus to be released with Mac M1 Native support


It will when it releases... in 2029!


----------



## pcarrilho

X-Bassist said:


> It will when it releases... in 2029!


looool...


----------



## Johnny

"Cyber-Opus 2077"


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Rumor has it that they will provide a schedule update this week and it should be out in April. Recording is all complete, just software testing and optimization in progress.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Rumor has it that they will provide a schedule update this week and it should be out in April. Recording is all complete, just software testing and optimization in progress.


Lol! So if the rumour is true (which I hope it is), I wonder why EW couldn't have given weekly updates on this progress. Their FB page is full of posters asking about release details lately, and it's just crickets. Most other developers are on the ball when it comes to release details....even if it's a late release. In this case, it's well over two months after the fact, with zero details (other than a few generic "bot" replies on FB weeks ago). According to Nick, it was most likely going to be here by the end of the first quarter...which is in two days (can't see that happening).

Ok, rant over!  Going to make some soup.


----------



## MauroPantin

Posted on a group I frequent, after the topic of HOOPUS was brought up. Staying vague on group and name of the person on purpose, anybody that wants to know can DM me and I'll oblige. This might be close to release but there's no date, so "When it's done™" continues...



> Please understand, that this is a major undertaking for the company. As with all software, it is very hard to estimate when you reach stability and thus make a precise date. We have to juggle like 5 moving targets with several upgrade path. Opus it self is version 1.0 and is put thru its paces for the first time. It looks very good now, but we can only ask for your patience as we want to get this right. You will be very pleased with what you get as we have listened to you


----------



## Markrs

MauroPantin said:


> Posted on a group I frequent, after the topic of HOOPUS was brought up. Staying vague on group and name of the person on purpose, anybody that wants to know can DM me and I'll oblige. This might be close to release but there's no date, so "When it's done™" continues...


Thanks, Mauro, still can't figure out why they can't just out a statement out like that publicly, as it reassures people that they are still working on it. Anyway it will arrive when it does, I am not basing any purchase decisions on waiting for it, as it could still take a year more, who knows.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

MauroPantin said:


> Posted on a group I frequent, after the topic of HOOPUS was brought up. Staying vague on group and name of the person on purpose, anybody that wants to know can DM me and I'll oblige. This might be close to release but there's no date, so "When it's done™" continues...


Which is totally understandable, but then why did they make an official release date in the first place? Must have been to wrangle subscribers. All they had to do was publish that progress blurb (or something similar) on the soundsonline website.


----------



## MauroPantin

@Markrs @Jeremy Spencer I absolutely agree with you both. Unfortunately, that is something that is out of the hands of the person that posted the update. I posted it here just to keep people up to date.

It is understandable that people are upset because lack of communication is pretty much as cold as it gets when treating customers. In the end, it is what has been said time and time again here. It comes down to PR or marketing or whatever you want to call that department within EW and their communication with the software team and the customers (or lack thereof). 

I don't think there is malice, though. But certainly they have not been stellar in that area. Then again, I have no idea who's in charge of that or what their lives are like or have been this past year. It's certainly been a tough one. And I have plenty of other libraries to write with, so while I would love to get my hands on a new toy (who doesn't?!) and I am disappointed with the delay, I can still wait. Personally, I already have more on my plate that I can handle. Come to think of it, I shouldn't even be posting or reading the forum. But it is always oh so placid here in the Social Media Forest. I think I'll stop next at Lake Coffee Break...


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Most developers do not give "weekly updates" on their progress. Small ones, perhaps, but even then, their focus is on making things work vs. trying to go to various forums and getting drawn into back and forth with the barbarian hordes. Additionally, they may feel that Vi-C has too big of a sense of self-importance and a reputation for whining anyway - as you can see, they (unofficially) provided an update on another channel vs. here.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Most developers do not give "weekly updates" on their progress. Small ones, perhaps, but even then, their focus is on making things work vs. trying to go to various forums and getting drawn into back and forth with the barbarian hordes. Additionally, they may feel that Vi-C has too big of a sense of self-importance and a reputation for whining anyway - as you can see, they (unofficially) provided an update on another channel vs. here.


I don't think anyone is requesting an update on a forum, but at least something on their official website....in which there has been absolutely nothing since taking down the January 21 release announcement.


----------



## MauroPantin

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Most developers do not give "weekly updates" on their progress. Small ones, perhaps, but even then, their focus is on making things work vs. trying to go to various forums and getting drawn into back and forth with the barbarian hordes. Additionally, they may feel that Vi-C has too big of a sense of self-importance and a reputation for whining anyway - as you can see, they (unofficially) provided an update on another channel vs. here.


This is true under normal circumstances. But when you announce a release date and that date is not met then there is a perceived debt, and would-be customers who feel entitled to an explanation. It is only natural. It is also in the best interest of the business to provide that explanation, since at that point a part of their customer base is ready to take the plunge. I think it's business 101; People should not be unnecessarily interrupted when they are about to give you their money.

Just to draw a parallel, imagine Apple announcing the Apple car, "Out this next fall!" and then it's almost summer and not only it's not out, but Apple hasn't said a word officially, and instead changed the release timeline without any explanation on all of their marketing material. It would cause a company stock meltdown, at the very least. I know EW is not a company with a 2 trillion dollar market cap, but still. It's a situation that, big or small, is not great for a business.


----------



## Lazer42

Markrs said:


> Thanks, Mauro, still can't figure out why they can't just out a statement out like that publicly, as it reassures people that they are still working on it. Anyway it will arrive when it does, I am not basing any purchase decisions on waiting for it, as it could still take a year more, who knows.


I agree, but I also know that for whatever reason it seems that it's not unusual for software developers to operate under the belief that being more upfront about this sort of stuff is somehow worse than silence. 

This tends to happen a lot in the gaming industry, for example. No matter how many times it happens and consumers get upset, and no matter how many counterexamples of developers which communicate more transparently getting lots of positive feedback (and of course, sales), there are a *ton* of companies which still seem to think - sincerely, not maliciously - that not saying much is better or that saying something will cause problems.


----------



## MauroPantin

Lazer42 said:


> there are a *ton* of companies which still seem to think - sincerely, not maliciously - that not saying much is better or that saying something will cause problems.


It depends on what you say. I remember the release of "No Man's Sky". I love it... but that game took about 2 years after released and significant updates to become the experience that was originally promised. 

I think the only rule is that you say things you are 100% on, and your PR department or Mkt or whoever is in charge makes sure those are 100% vetted statements that reflect the truth and can hold water 12 months or even years after they have been said.


----------



## dcoscina




----------



## trumpoz

dcoscina said:


>


Come on - you missed out on The Forbidden Planet........ At least there has been an update this decade about HOOPUS.


----------



## dcoscina

trumpoz said:


> Come on - you missed out on The Forbidden Planet........ At least there has been an update this decade about HOOPUS.


I'm just having some fun. I work in music retail by day and I've told more customers about delays from Fender and M Audio and a plethora of companies (Roland, Yamaha) because of production shortages, delays, distribution issues... I get it. Covid has not helped one bit. 

I'm sure we will all be discussing how great this library is once it's released. Or bitching about it since that's kinda the vibe around this place of late. :(


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

dcoscina said:


> I'm just having some fun. I work in music retail by day and I've told more customers about delays from Fender and M Audio and a plethora of companies (Roland, Yamaha) because of production shortages, delays, distribution issues... I get it. Covid has not helped one bit.
> 
> I'm sure we will all be discussing how great this library is once it's released. Or bitching about it since that's kinda the vibe around this place of late. :(


Well, as much as I’m ticked at EW, their libraries have been my #1 go-to since 2006....and will be for a long time. Like others have mentioned, it’s their marketing department that needs an overhaul. Support has always been top notch....especially Michael and Lorenz.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

I have generally stayed silent on this issue as I fully understand possible delays are always likely. It is also to be expected that people will become frustrated when delays are announced with little to no information or updates, but it is what it is.
However, I really disagree with the general treatment of those that pitched for a subscription when told it was the best price specifically for HOOPUS, only to not only have their money taken each month with nothing to show for it (yes, there are a lot of other content in the CC, but if people wanted it for them they would already be on it), and then for it to be offered cheaper in the spring sale in regards to the monthly payments.
I was one of them and got in contact with them last week to air these grievances directly - they were very helpful and something that was done for me gave me the impression it will be out in April, so this possibly confirms what I suspected.



Jeremy Spencer said:


> Support has always been top notch....especially Michael and Lorenz.


Add Joey to those names. Some of the best customer support I have ever received (especially after a year of having to deal with mobile, internet, and utility companies)

As an aside, if EastWest want someone to take on the forums and social media, I would be happy to take on that job 😂


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Considering EW sold their monthly CC subscription with marketing materials that said get it for Opus and they are two months late on Opus's date, they should really give 2 months free to all CC subscribers IMO assuming Opus does come out in April.


----------



## Johnny

MauroPantin said:


> It depends on what you say. I remember the release of "No Man's Sky". I love it... but that game took about 2 years after released and significant updates to become the experience that was originally promised.
> 
> I think the only rule is that you say things you are 100% on, and your PR department or Mkt or whoever is in charge makes sure those are 100% vetted statements that reflect the truth and can hold water 12 months or even years after they have been said.


I was just thinking about No Man's Sky- over sold, hyperboles every article, false trailers, false advertisement/over hyping the games potential at launch... And then a massive failure upon release date... Lawsuits etc... 5 years later is nominated for "Best evolving game" in 2020 and 2021. I have nothing but respect for those devs! I think EW could make this happen as well however, they (as in: all active party members) would all have to be onboard and take accountability to some extent to avoid flopping entirely upon release.

I understand how "they" want nothing to do with PR, (And here comes a silly analogy, warning: don't read on if you don't want to have a sense of humor about this all. I am merely joking because EW is still a good company and I support their products)

That being said, if I wanted to construct and sell condos to make side income? If I was involved in every aspect of the design and the construction of those condos? Even if my marketing team completely over sold me in every PDF that came with the purchasing my condos? For example: as the active creative mastermind and award winning CEO etc... Even if that was all from my marketing team, the moment that I decided to invest in the condo construction game and create that condo construction business plan, in some way I became an active participant of that condo construction company- period. Especially when my name is at the forefront. (whether marketing did that or not) At the end of the day, this is now my condo construction business, and I fully represent what I build and release to the public- even if I don't care about you, and I don't care about sales, and even if this isn't my full-time gig etc... At some point, it was me that wanted to be involved in the condo business- even if just to earn a little extra passive income and some pocket cash of a few million dollars a year. Because I decided this was something that I wanted, I networked my way in, I joined the condo production team, which eventually lead to me releasing many years of great products, being lead producer/part owner or employee of a business; because of that, I now represent my brand whether I like it or not. I know this is a silly analogy, and I understand where "they" are coming from in saying this isn't their day job... That they are not involved in the marketing etc... Even if that sincerely is the case? Despite all of the false, rabidly running, fully unleashed PR that comes out of my salary, at the end of the day (And take no offence, I come in peace) it kind of naturally becomes my responsibility... Reason being, at some point I did decide to form/found or invest in the condo production business. At some point I even hired a marketing and support team. Yes I can walk away from the marketing side, but because my name is at the forefront of every public advert, NAMM presentation, teaser videos, interviews, and because I am involved in the production cycles, board meetings, and I am at the end of the day, a co-owner of my business and I represent my brand, I am somewhat accountable for my product. If I didn't want this, then what was the point? I would just take out one ginormous bank loan with my Rockstar status, make these products for myself and continue writing great music! But again at the end of the day, it was my career path and decision to join/brand my company, make a website, become lead producer, and engineer my products- I should probably take accountability for my product releases should I want to continue having anymore sales no? If I didn't want this or I didn't want to continue having condo sales? I guess I could always drive Uber (but please don't do this ;P) for side income and continue to write great music which is actually my real passion! At some point it was an active decision to create my business model, conceptualize a product, and create a brand to go fourth and release my product into the world to create revenue... If I really, really sincerely did not want to be involved in the condo construction industry, and someone was actually behind the scenes forcing me to do this with my life, I simply wouldn't do it. Just a random thought... I am happy to use their products and I don't care when or if opus comes out or not, just food for thought : )


----------



## BasariStudios

I say (add whatever you want here) them!
Life goes on, i spent money somewhere else,
when it comes out will see what i do then.


----------



## dcoscina

yeah I don't really care to be honest. I was initially curious, if not interested, but that has passed.


----------



## Johnny

dcoscina said:


> yeah I don't really care to be honest. I was initially curious, if not interested, but that has passed.


Me too... The hype was real at NAMM... And then I realized, I already have Spaces 2 and HW Choirs... So I didn't watch the old walkthru replays that I had already seen at other NAMMs many years before...


----------



## I like music

The discussion has turned too sensible and serious. Meme ratio is quite bad over the last few pages, and really, that's what I'm here for.

As for HOOPUS, when it happens it happens.

For now, more memes people!


----------



## AndyP

As long as nothing happens here or at EW, I'll make oct*OPUS* soup.


----------



## BasariStudios

Here is some more.


----------



## Tremendouz

Forget Hollywood Orchestra, where's Bollywood Orchestra? 1100 gigabytes of deeply sampled traditional instruments and foley (kicks, punches, kisses) for your physics-breaking action hero.


----------



## dcoscina

I'm still waiting for the PDQ Bach Orchestra... c'mon, someone has to do it!!!


----------



## Laurin Lenschow




----------



## Nimrod7




----------



## NoamL

my enthusiasm for Opus was kinda dampened when they said it was recorded in EastWest 1. I mean, that makes sense, but still I feel like there are better options / more exciting, to look forward to now.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Tremendouz said:


> Forget Hollywood Orchestra, where's Bollywood Orchestra? 1100 gigabytes of deeply sampled traditional instruments and foley (kicks, punches, kisses) for your physics-breaking action hero.


I think most the slur portamento patches in HS have the strings covered!


----------



## Jose7822

Please keep them coming. Love it! 😂🤣😂


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Johnny said:


> I was just thinking about No Man's Sky- over sold, hyperboles every article, false trailers, false advertisement/over hyping the games potential at launch... And then a massive failure upon release date... Lawsuits etc... 5 years later is nominated for "Best evolving game" in 2020 and 2021. I have nothing but respect for those devs! I think EW could make this happen as well however, they (as in: all active party members) would all have to be onboard and take accountability to some extent to avoid flopping entirely upon release.
> 
> I understand how "they" want nothing to do with PR, (And here comes a silly analogy, warning: don't read on if you don't want to have a sense of humor about this all. I am merely joking because EW is still a good company and I support their products)
> 
> That being said, if I wanted to construct and sell condos to make side income? If I was involved in every aspect of the design and the construction of those condos? Even if my marketing team completely over sold me in every PDF that came with the purchasing my condos? For example: as the active creative mastermind and award winning CEO etc... Even if that was all from my marketing team, the moment that I decided to invest in the condo construction game and create that condo construction business plan, in some way I became an active participant of that condo construction company- period. Especially when my name is at the forefront. (whether marketing did that or not) At the end of the day, this is now my condo construction business, and I fully represent what I build and release to the public- even if I don't care about you, and I don't care about sales, and even if this isn't my full-time gig etc... At some point, it was me that wanted to be involved in the condo business- even if just to earn a little extra passive income and some pocket cash of a few million dollars a year. Because I decided this was something that I wanted, I networked my way in, I joined the condo production team, which eventually lead to me releasing many years of great products, being lead producer/part owner or employee of a business; because of that, I now represent my brand whether I like it or not. I know this is a silly analogy, and I understand where "they" are coming from in saying this isn't their day job... That they are not involved in the marketing etc... Even if that sincerely is the case? Despite all of the false, rabidly running, fully unleashed PR that comes out of my salary, at the end of the day (And take no offence, I come in peace) it kind of naturally becomes my responsibility... Reason being, at some point I did decide to form/found or invest in the condo production business. At some point I even hired a marketing and support team. Yes I can walk away from the marketing side, but because my name is at the forefront of every public advert, NAMM presentation, teaser videos, interviews, and because I am involved in the production cycles, board meetings, and I am at the end of the day, a co-owner of my business and I represent my brand, I am somewhat accountable for my product. If I didn't want this, then what was the point? I would just take out one ginormous bank loan with my Rockstar status, make these products for myself and continue writing great music! But again at the end of the day, it was my career path and decision to join/brand my company, make a website, become lead producer, and engineer my products- I should probably take accountability for my product releases should I want to continue having anymore sales no? If I didn't want this or I didn't want to continue having condo sales? I guess I could always drive Uber (but please don't do this ;P) for side income and continue to write great music which is actually my real passion! At some point it was an active decision to create my business model, conceptualize a product, and create a brand to go fourth and release my product into the world to create revenue... If I really, really sincerely did not want to be involved in the condo construction industry, and someone was actually behind the scenes forcing me to do this with my life, I simply wouldn't do it. Just a random thought... I am happy to use their products and I don't care when or if opus comes out or not, just food for thought : )


Interesting point... how many times did you say condo?
Can you remember.... and doe site person who lets you know first get a discount on OPUS, or is that dream just Hopeless?...

Right bed time, my dad jokes are getting out of hand and I am not even a Dad


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK




----------



## Shad0wLandsUK




----------



## Dewdman42

I'm kind of interested to see if the improved the scripting enough to care. I bought EWHO but I basically never use it because I have VSL stuff. I expect the upgrade pricing to be ridiculous and no good sales for at least 3 more years. So......mostly it just sounds like OPUS has a new player...with some new instruments and articulations that weren't in the original...and some new creative options in terms of sequencing and other things like that. Probably it will be step forward, but I think when it comes out there is going to be mass hysteria when everyone finds out how much they want for the upgrade pricing...then another round of mass hysteria when they have a 50% sale again but don't include Opus upgrade in the sale....etc etc etc...

I am definitely curious to see if they got the OPUS keyswitching and scripting better then they did for PLAY, however, which was always off-putting to me.


----------



## TCMQL1

Yeah while I'm sure the new sounds will be great, I'm far more interested in what exactly "reimagined original content" entails and whether _that _will justify the (likely high) price tag.

If the update involves a reimagined UI, improved legatos, less phasing in the solo instruments, proper KS master patches, reduced unnecessary patch count, rebalanced articulations and properly balanced mic mixes by Shawn Murphy via the 'moods' feature _PLUS _new instruments, among other things, then I could see it being a very compelling upgrade. Wishful thinking perhaps, but despite its age Hollywood Orchestra is still a great sounding library and a proper makeover that fixes most of its issues could really elevate it to the next level. If it's essentially just the same old HO, now with some minor changes, better keyswitching and a few extra instruments however, then I could see it being skipped by a lot of people if the price is too high.


----------



## Braveheart

StarfireBlack said:


> I have generally stayed silent on this issue as I fully understand possible delays are always likely. It is also to be expected that people will become frustrated when delays are announced with little to no information or updates, but it is what it is.
> However, I really disagree with the general treatment of those that pitched for a subscription when told it was the best price specifically for HOOPUS, only to not only have their money taken each month with nothing to show for it (yes, there are a lot of other content in the CC, but if people wanted it for them they would already be on it), and then for it to be offered cheaper in the spring sale in regards to the monthly payments.
> I was one of them and got in contact with them last week to air these grievances directly - they were very helpful and something that was done for me gave me the impression it will be out in April, so this possibly confirms what I suspected.
> 
> 
> Add Joey to those names. Some of the best customer support I have ever received (especially after a year of having to deal with mobile, internet, and utility companies)
> 
> As an aside, if EastWest want someone to take on the forums and social media, I would be happy to take on that job 😂


Before taking the job for EastWest, you should talk to Jay Asher first, I think he was doing it previously and it didn't look like a walk in the park!


----------



## Johnny

Nimrod7 said:


>


You win! Per-fect!!!!!!!! (My favorite Meme ever!!)


----------



## Johnny

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Interesting point... how many times did you say condo?
> Can you remember.... and doe site person who lets you know first get a discount on OPUS, or is that dream just Hopeless?...
> 
> Right bed time, my dad jokes are getting out of hand and I am not even a Dad


Opus with Hopeless was actually really funny!!!! I appreciate the Dad jokes! And any sample hocus pocus ;p I had to read it about 3 times because I am clearly a dopus...  (O.K. I'm off to bed... Why am I rhyming... ;p)


----------



## cqd




----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Dewdman42 said:


> I expect the upgrade pricing to be ridiculous and no good sales for at least 3 more years


What's your best guess? I'm going to say $299 for owners of HO Diamond. It better have a TON of new content and features if it's going to cost more than that.


----------



## Dewdman42

I'd be shocked if its anything near that low.


----------



## FKVStudio

Last day to buy East West products with 50% discount. Are you waiting for Opus or will you buy HWO to take advantage of a possible reduced upgrade price when it is released? :D


----------



## doctoremmet

FKVStudio said:


> Last day to buy East West products with 50% discount. Are you waiting for Opus or will you buy HWO to take advantage of a possible reduced upgrade price when it is released? :D


Ah good. So tomorrow the regular 60% sale will return again and order in the universe will be restored.


----------



## Batwaffel

Jeremy Spencer said:


> What's your best guess? I'm going to say $299 for owners of HO Diamond. It better have a TON of new content and features if it's going to cost more than that.


I'm going to take a guess and say it's going to be closer to $599 with the update for Diamond owners and closer to $999 for new buyers


----------



## Batwaffel

Originally my guess was going to be $799 for the update but I feel like they would lose their balance between subscriptions and people who buy licenses. It's no secret they want to push everyone to subscription though so who knows which way they will go. I can't see it being below $599 for the update though.


----------



## Tremendouz

Batwaffel said:


> Originally my guess was going to be $799 for the update but I feel like they would lose their balance between subscriptions and people who buy licenses. It's no secret they want to push everyone to subscription though so who knows which way they will go. I can't see it being below $599 for the update though.


If the update was $599 that's be an instant no from me. I'd just opt for the OPUS engine update instead if it allows proper keyswitching. I think they've said that all their stuff will be ported to it but I'm wondering if just the engine updates will be free.


----------



## Dewdman42

My guess would be definitely north of $500 to upgrade it and I don’t think they will ever put the upgrade on sale. New buyers will be able to get it on sale for $50 more then the upgrade price at some point in next sale.


----------



## Dewdman42

I’d also be shocked if opus alone is free. There will be some minimum upgrade price to get the opus player with existing samples. A much bigger upgrade price to get the new samples and content and the new sequencing tools


----------



## dcoscina

Since I have Diamond HO, I'm sure I will bite if this delivers a 1/3 of what it promises.


----------



## Tremendouz

Dewdman42 said:


> I’d also be shocked if opus alone is free. There will be some minimum upgrade price to get the opus player with existing samples. A much bigger upgrade price to get the new samples and content and the new sequencing tools


I would gladly pay a reasonable price just for the engine update as long as it's on par with kontakt regarding purge and keyswitching. I don't need new samples and I love how hollywood strings and brass sound but I haven't used them yet due to them clashing with my workflow haha


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Tremendouz said:


> If the update was $599 that's be an instant no from me. I'd just opt for the OPUS engine update instead if it allows proper keyswitching. I think they've said that all their stuff will be ported to it but I'm wondering if just the engine updates will be free.


I think it would be an instant no for many, probably even myself unfortunately. Too many other options out there in that price range.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, the price will be what makes or breaks it alright..If they go too high they will lose a lot of potential customers.. there will probably be a couple of prices though, will there?.. depending on whether or not you have any of the solo instruments..


----------



## Dewdman42

The reality is that the upgrade includes a lot of new content and that is the kind of price they tend to charge. Its really more like buying an additional library more so than buying a slightly upgraded version of existing HWSO. I expect a price between $50-$200 upgrade price to just upgrade PLAY to OPUS on the existing library. And well over $500 to upgrade to the full OPUS package with all the new content and possibly even more if you want the sequencing features.... 

And as they have done in the past, I don't think they will ever put the upgrade price on much of a sale. The list price of this library will be a thousand bucks and it will go on sale in the 600 range several times a year...and in 5 years people will be able to buy it on sale for $399. The upgrade price will never go below that...because they will consider it more like a new library than as a light upgrade to HWSO.

if we are lucky, someday maybe they'll allow PLAY users to upgrade to OPUS for less money, but don't hold your breath. How long did people keep running PLAY5 after PLAY6 came out...for example...


----------



## Dewdman42

The one thing is that they never really put enough effort into sorting out keyswitching and scripting in PLAY. I am interested to see what they did with OPUS. I'd probably pay up to $100 just to upgrade the player to OPUS.....IF...the changes in scripting and keyswitching are substantially better. If they are just a few little token improvements, then I would expect a free upgrade, which is unlikely to be the case. But if they truly made it so that my HWSO library will just be a ton easier to use with OPUS, for $100 or less...they will get my money. Maybe I'd finally use this library once in a while. I don't see myself upgrading to the new content at all. 

I think brand new buyers, however are going to love this library...especially when it goes on sale for $500 in a year from now....when they will be able to get the whole thing for that much money...then why not...or subscribe for $30/month too..whatever.. The response will be huge. Those of us that already invested in the previous stuff...its going to be hard to justify the cost...and EW has shown a history of providing tons of incentive to new buyers while leaving the previous owners behind... So that is what I expect to happen. If it turns out this is a whole new era for EW to act differently, then we can all rejoice, but brace yourselves....


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Dewdman42 said:


> The reality is that the upgrade includes a lot of new content and that is the kind of price they tend to charge. Its really more like buying an additional library more so than buying a slightly upgraded version of existing HWSO. I expect a price between $50-$200 upgrade price to just upgrade PLAY to OPUS on the existing library. And well over $500 to upgrade to the full OPUS package with all the new content and possibly even more if you want the sequencing features....
> 
> And as they have done in the past, I don't think they will ever put the upgrade price on much of a sale. The list price of this library will be a thousand bucks and it will go on sale in the 600 range several times a year...and in 5 years people will be able to buy it on sale for $399. The upgrade price will never go below that...because they will consider it more like a new library than as a light upgrade to HWSO.
> 
> if we are lucky, someday maybe they'll allow PLAY users to upgrade to OPUS for less money, but don't hold your breath. How long did people keep running PLAY5 after PLAY6 came out...for example...


When I read the description, I see some added content, but I wouldn’t say it’s anything substantial. I’m also guessing the Opus player will be a free upgrade, as I suspect it’s replacing Play.


----------



## Dewdman42

If you watch their promotional videos, they talk about it a bit. Its new content and the sequencing features they are mostly pushing as being the new stuff. And that the existing library will work in OPUS as well..whatever that means.


----------



## Dewdman42

PLAY6 was not a free upgrade, so why would OPUS be? Seriously doubt that. If anything OPUS will be more expensive then PLAY6 was because a lot more work went into it. They hired some elite programmers to develop it. I expect OPUS is much much better then PLAY, and it won't be free.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Dewdman42 said:


> PLAY6 was not a free upgrade, so why would OPUS be? Seriously doubt that. If anything OPUS will be more expensive then PLAY6 was because a lot more work went into it. They hired some elite programmers to develop it. I expect OPUS is much much better then PLAY, and it won't be free.


It started out as a paid update, but that stopped. I got it for free.


----------



## Dewdman42

wait long enough, maybe you'll get this for free someday too, never know..


----------



## Markrs

I have EWHO Diamond, but I also have a subscription, so I plan to see the value of Opus and the improvements first then decide whether to upgrade my EWHO Diamond.


----------



## BasariStudios

I say F them...again.


----------



## Jose7822

Anything over $300 for an upgrade would be WAY too high of an asking price. I can see it being more than $300 for someone purchasing OPUS from zero. But, for people who currently own HO Diamond, that’s just too much. As was mentioned earlier, the amount of new content doesn’t warrant a higher price, IMO.


----------



## cqd

You are getting the solo instruments too though..

To go from Hollywood choirs gold to diamond is hitting 200 bucks..


----------



## cqd

The orchestrator is going to be a separate buy then too..


----------



## doctoremmet

I’d rather spend my 300 bucks on Century Woodwinds


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cqd said:


> You are getting the solo instruments too though..


Are they included with Opus?


----------



## Jose7822

cqd said:


> You are getting the solo instruments too though..
> 
> To go from Hollywood choirs gold to diamond is hitting 200 bucks..





cqd said:


> The orchestrator is going to be a separate buy then too..



You can’t go by their upgrade pricing. It doesn’t make sense, which is one of the biggest fear with OPUS. Hopefully they don’t screw this up, for their sake.

Also, no one asked for Solo Instruments nor for an Orchestrator. Then again, I don’t think that’s included in the OPUS upgrade...at least I don’t think this has been confirmed.


----------



## cqd

AFAIK the solo instruments will be included in opus (you need a harp anyway..) and the orchestrator is a separate buy..

Yeah, their upgrade pricing.. they get a lot of slack for it.. this is their opportunity to get it sorted.. hopefully they take it and don't shaft us..


----------



## ChazC

cqd said:


> ... this is their opportunity to get it sorted.. hopefully they take it and don't shaft us..


Wow, I love your optimism! It's truly inspiring!

You're 99.9% wrong in all eventuality; but inspiring non-the-less.


----------



## BasariStudios

cqd said:


> AFAIK the solo instruments will be included in opus (you need a harp anyway..) and the orchestrator is a separate buy..
> 
> Yeah, their upgrade pricing.. they get a lot of slack for it.. this is their opportunity to get it sorted.. hopefully they take it and don't shaft us..


If anyone can screw things up i would put my money on EW.


----------



## cqd

ChazC said:


> Wow, I love your optimism! It's truly inspiring!
> 
> You're 99.9% wrong in all eventuality; but inspiring non-the-less.


Haha..I know..and in general I am not optimistic..
I'm not sure what has come over me..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Quantum Leap said:


> 3. Will probably be released first quarter.


Maybe next quarter? 🤞


----------



## cqd

It's still march in LA..


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

doctoremmet said:


> I’d rather spend my 300 bucks on Century Woodwinds


At this rate, that is coming out after OPUS too though 
I am also waiting for this...

We are meant to get those Century Ostinatos first anyway, what happened to them?
I have just seen brass and quartets everywhere


----------



## doctoremmet

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> At this rate, that is coming out after OPUS too though
> I am also waiting for this...
> 
> We are meant to get those Century Ostinatos first anyway, what happened to them?
> I have just seen brass and quartets everywhere


I know. I saw a new tease recently and the sales at 8dio seem to be ramping up. So it sure feels like a new release is approaching. But yeah... I hear ya.






Centurium Woodwindosa!


@Troels Folmann @8Dio News @8Dio Productions Dobby Emmet says: “Let there be woodwinds”




vi-control.net


----------



## RightOnTime

Man, it's interesting seeing different takes on pricing etc! 

I think what I'm really hoping to see is the basic updates in the Hoopus engine (reorganised, simplified patches with keyswitching) free for everyone, while the paid update is for the new content (first violins, woodwind ensembles, orchestrator etc). 

Most companies continue to update their products for free (Cinebrass, for example, was released a decade ago and still gets big improvements), and I'll be very disappointed if existing users are expected to pay for basic quality-of-life improvements that have been sorely needed. 

HWS and HWB diamond are still my workhorses and I'm hoping I'll be able to use them with a less convoluted workflow. But I'm not paying good money to get the full HWO along with a bunch of new stuff when all I really want is proper keyswitching...


----------



## Fa

HERE WE ARE!!!! HO with OPUS is FINALLY OUT... downloading just now!!!

Let's see if it's really as good as they say, or if it was just a joke...

EDIT: April 1st 2021


----------



## muk

Fa said:


> HERE WE ARE!!!! HO with OPUS is FINALLY OUT... downloading just now!!!
> 
> Let's see if it's really as good as they say, or if it was just a joke...



With any other company than EW this might have worked.


----------



## Thorgod10

Fa said:


> HERE WE ARE!!!! HO with OPUS is FINALLY OUT... downloading just now!!!
> 
> Let's see if it's really as good as they say, or if it was just a joke..


Hello ViControl? 
Could you add the angry react please?


----------



## PeterBaumann

RightOnTime said:


> HWS and HWB diamond are still my workhorses and I'm hoping I'll be able to use them with a less convoluted workflow. But I'm not paying good money to get the full HWO along with a bunch of new stuff when all I really want is proper keyswitching...


That's my situation too. If it's a great price, I might consider upgrading to the new library. If it's anywhere near the prices mentioned above, that's a no from me.

Most companies doing their own samplers/players seem to be transferring them over for free, haven't they? PLAY 6 was free for me (not sure if that's because I waited for ages, or if it always was!), Spitfire Player is free, Kontakt (base version) is free, Sine is free.


----------



## Trax

Fa said:


> HERE WE ARE!!!! HO with OPUS is FINALLY OUT... downloading just now!!!
> 
> Let's see if it's really as good as they say, or if it was just a joke...
> 
> EDIT: April 1st 2021



LOL 

It's actually is out sort of since 3 days ago. But it's kind of hidden. I only knew about it because someone mentioned it on discord. It's just the new player and you can only access the Hollywood Solo Instruments, so kind of pointless but the new player is really nice.


----------



## szczaw

Opus me already. Logic dictates that Orchestrator requires proper rebalancing of the entire orchestra.


----------



## Hendrixon

150 pages of discussion about nothing...



Yea, I'll see you at page 300.


----------



## Fa

Trax said:


> LOL
> 
> It's actually is out sort of since 3 days ago. But it's kind of hidden. I only knew about it because someone mentioned it on discord. It's just the new player and you can only access the Hollywood Solo Instruments, so kind of pointless but the new player is really nice.


YES I know. You need the link to access it:
https://www.opusplayer1.com/en/homepage-en/


----------



## cqd

If it was an April fools I totally didn't believe it, but there is surely a beta version knocking around the place somewhere..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Turns out they changed the name.


----------



## Trax

Fa said:


> YES I know. You need the link to access it:
> https://www.opusplayer1.com/en/homepage-en/




Not quite. You have to log into your account on http://www.soundsonline.com. 
They didn't update the OPUS page maybe because the new OPUS Edition instruments aren't available yet? If you're a CC Plus user and go into your account via the sound online website. Then under My Account in the Composer Cloud section there's a link to activate Opus SE. 

Then open the installation center and you should see a new link for the download. Also there's no PDFs on how to use it either. They just released it so they can say they did? So strange.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Trax said:


> Not quite. You have to log into your account on http://www.soundsonline.com.
> They didn't update the OPUS page maybe because the new OPUS Edition instruments aren't available yet? If you're a CC Plus user and go into your account via the sound online website. Then under My Account in the Composer Cloud section there's a link to activate Opus SE.
> 
> Then open the installation center and you should see a new link for the download. Also there's no PDFs on how to use it either. They just released it so they can say they did? So strange.


I just checked and do not have anything about OPUS there 🤷‍♂️


----------



## MauroPantin

Forgive my skepticism but being that it is April 1st I'm just going to go ahead and quote the old faithful "pics or it didn't happen"


----------



## Tremendouz

MauroPantin said:


> Forgive my skepticism but being that it is April 1st I'm just going to go ahead and quote the old faithful "pics or it didn't happen"


Here you go. There has been a a change of plans though as you can see.


----------



## mcalis

There are a couple of interesting things that can be spotted in the 10 min video from January.

First of all, it seems that all new instruments have an extra mic labeled "EDGE".

Secondly, I've noticed a whole bunch of tabs, labeled (from left to right): BROWSE, PLAY, PERFORM, MIX, EDIT, DESIGN, PUBLISH.

Obvious standouts are the "edit", "design", and "publish" tabs. I'm guessing they have to do with the orchestrator, but maybe, just maybe there's a bit more control over the actual samples too?

Lastly, I noticed a "time" knob on the left hand side where the legato options are. Presumably this allows control over the legato transitions?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Trax said:


> Not quite. You have to log into your account on http://www.soundsonline.com.
> They didn't update the OPUS page maybe because the new OPUS Edition instruments aren't available yet? If you're a CC Plus user and go into your account via the sound online website. Then under My Account in the Composer Cloud section there's a link to activate Opus SE.
> 
> Then open the installation center and you should see a new link for the download. Also there's no PDFs on how to use it either. They just released it so they can say they did? So strange.


Well, knowing it is April 1st I logged into my account anyway. No Opus SE reference there for me... or perhaps I just have to be fooled more to see it 

There is a special place in deep darkness within a void for such tricksters as this one 😆


----------



## BasariStudios

Trax said:


> Not quite. You have to log into your account on http://www.soundsonline.com.
> They didn't update the OPUS page maybe because the new OPUS Edition instruments aren't available yet? If you're a CC Plus user and go into your account via the sound online website. Then under My Account in the Composer Cloud section there's a link to activate Opus SE.
> 
> Then open the installation center and you should see a new link for the download. Also there's no PDFs on how to use it either. They just released it so they can say they did? So strange.


Its interesting the first 2-3 times then it gets boring.
No need to push it so hard.


----------



## Trax

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Well, knowing it is April 1st I logged into my account anyway. No Opus SE reference there for me... or perhaps I just have to be fooled more to see it
> 
> There is a special place in deep darkness within a void for such tricksters as this one 😆


LOL 

You have to be a fool to see it perhaps. It could've been worst, but I had faith in EW.


----------



## KitNexu




----------



## Noc

KitNexu said:


>


Oh no … I know what _else_ happens in 2077. Hopefully Opus will be released before October 23rd do we at least have a little while to enjoy it?


----------



## Toecutter

Jose7822 said:


> As was mentioned earlier, the amount of new content doesn’t warrant a higher price, IMO.


yeap, it's mainly the Play makeover and a few new instruments, mostly stuff that needed to be improved anyway, like woodwinds. I'm expecting something around $200 for this sort of upgrade (HO complete diamond).


----------



## szczaw

I think people who assume that the price will be initially high, in order to push subs, are correct. I expect the upgrade to be close to full price since that is the EW way.


----------



## Wlad

It's EW, so it's more likely to be $999 for the full HOPUS library and $499 for the upgrade from HO Diamond.


----------



## szczaw

Wlad said:


> It's EW, so it's more likely to be $999 for the full HOPUS library and $499 for the upgrade from HO Diamond.


The last 50 pages may bestow on us a 'fuck you!' upgrade price of $998.


----------



## KitNexu

Is EW deleting comments on their Facebook page?


----------



## KitNexu

I guess we'll have to wait until EW releases Opus, whenever that happens :(


----------



## BasariStudios

KitNexu said:


> Is EW deleting comments on their Facebook page?


Yes they do, i've noticed few times.


----------



## mcalis

KitNexu said:


>


This is a quality meme. 

Alternate version should be Donkey saying "Anyone want soup?" xD


----------



## Mystic

BasariStudios said:


> Yes they do, i've noticed few times.


They used to pull that same crap on their old forums. Say only good things or they silence you!


----------



## BasariStudios

Mystic said:


> They used to pull that same crap on their old forums. Say only good things or they silence you!


Yep. They used to ban people just for light criticizing.


----------



## pcarrilho

I just cancelled my EW Cloudx Subscription 5 minutes ago... 
Don't care about EW until they release OPUS... and i will decide if makes sense to go subscription again.
with so many libs out there, don't justify, for now, to use EW subscription.
This silence from EW is a big lack of respect for their costumers.

See you soon EW subscription (or never again... will depends...)


----------



## Evans

I don't know, y'all. I'm preparing for a long project I've picked up as of this week, and phase 1 this weekend is going to have me trying to trim down which V1 patches I want to use.

For my needs, EWHO Strings Diamond (currently tinkering with bow change legato using Cinematic Rooms "Medium and Stage" preset) and Strezov Afflatus Lush Strings are my top. For this project, at least.

EWHO is good shit and I'll likely pick up Opus unless the ~230 GB of updates don't turn out well. I don't care as much if the company _is_ garbage (I'm not saying either way), if it'll A) get me work or B) provide a fulfilling experience on the hobbyist side.


----------



## Trax

I'm sad to miss out of the EW forum experience, sounds like it was quite a ride. Now and then google barfs up a question I have about EW Hollywood Orchestra or Play with links to that forum. So it seems besides the drama some good information was lost, throwing the bathwater out with the baby


----------



## RogiervG

Well, i'm not going for Opus anymore. I just realized i have enough good libs already (incl. HOD, which is still very good after all these years).
So, yeah.. the long waiting made me steer away from it, thank you EW for the enlightment and seeing that i don't need it.


----------



## BasariStudios

RogiervG said:


> Well, i'm not going for Opus anymore. I just realized i have enough good libs already (incl. HOD, which is still very good after all these years).
> So, yeah.. the long waiting made me steer away from it, thank you EW for the enlightment and seeing that i don't need it.


Same here...


----------



## KitNexu




----------



## gsilbers

Hopefully someone can make a new thread when it actually comes out.
It’s been like 10 years in the making. (Play pro?)


----------



## Trax

I hope it's released May 5th. That would be one year to the date of the formation of this thread. It would also be Cinco de Mayo and then I'll celebrate by using the Mariachi patch


----------



## szczaw

Nah. They should opt for May 1 and clam that all of them stand with us:


----------



## BasariStudios

We think we are the Noodle 
but we are the Soup, 
the Soup is Everything!


----------



## AB3

Does EW ever write here and give people a status update? On the pro audio boards, some of the best manufacturers do that. it would be nice to see that here.


----------



## BasariStudios

AB3 said:


> Does EW ever write here and give people a status update?


LOL


----------



## doctoremmet

AB3 said:


> Does EW ever write here and give people a status update? On the pro audio boards, some of the best manufacturers do that. it would be nice to see that here.


Erm..... have you read this thread?


----------



## AB3

Well, I think i got my answer!


----------



## AB3

doctoremmet said:


> Erm..... have you read this thread?


All 151 pages? No. Is it filled with posts about people wanting a response from EW? If it is, then why should they be supported.


----------



## Evans

Evans said:


> _"I don't like doing this, I don't even work for this company, and I dislike most of you. Please buy my software." _


That's my prior summary of the representation that VI Control had in this thread from someone involved in the making of Opus.

He was getting pretty beat up, but I think it wasn't _totally_ unwarranted.


----------



## doctoremmet

AB3 said:


> All 151 pages? No.


Do it. Around page 128...


----------



## AB3

doctoremmet said:


> Do it. Around page 128...


Done. So obviously I have not read all the pages. So, is it fair to say that in this incredibly long thread there is not one post from a legitimate EW representative? If so, I do not want to invest any more in EW. If I am wrong though and someone from EW has responded in these 152 pages, please advise.


----------



## KitNexu

I think Nick is still making soup 🤣


----------



## doctoremmet

AB3 said:


> Done. So obviously I have not read all the pages. So, is it fair to say that in this incredibly long thread there is not one post from a legitimate EW representative? If so, I do not want to invest any more in EW. If I am wrong though and someone from EW has responded in these 152 pages, please advise.


Well, technically the one guy who speaks sort of “on behalf of” EW says he is not involved in HOPUS nor an official spokesperson. There have not been any other official responses as far as I know.


----------



## AB3

doctoremmet said:


> Well, technically the one guy who speaks sort of “on behalf of” EW says he is not involved in HOPUS nor an official spokesperson. There have not been any other official responses as far as I know.


Thank you.


----------



## KitNexu

AB3 said:


> Does EW ever write here and give people a status update? On the pro audio boards, some of the best manufacturers do that. it would be nice to see that here.


They were extremely unhelpful and disrespectful 😤


----------



## AB3

KitNexu said:


> They were extremely unhelpful and disrespectful 😤


Well, that saves me some money this year. I was tempted to get their Opus, but now I say - forget it!
I bet if I pay on their website, that someone is able to process the payment right away! But no money from me. Sad - as I enjoyed their products in the past.


----------



## BasariStudios

AB3 said:


> Done. So obviously I have not read all the pages. So, is it fair to say that in this incredibly long thread there is not one post from a legitimate EW representative? If so, I do not want to invest any more in EW. If I am wrong though and someone from EW has responded in these 152 pages, please advise.


No. There is not one post. Except from the person who's name is on Opus and claims he has nothing to do with it basically telling us to go F our selves and make some Soup.


----------



## cqd

In fairness a lot of posters here were going on like entitled children there for a bit too..


----------



## AB3

A manufacturer should have enough public relations skills to effectively post in these threads. This seems like a fairly classy forum as a whole, I would think that any manufacturer would get a fair shake here.


----------



## doctoremmet

AB3 said:


> This seems like a fairly classy forum as a whole, I would think that any manufacturer would get a fair shake here.


On a positive note, there are many happy examples of vendors and developers interacting with their users very succesfully on this forum.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

AB3 said:


> Does EW ever write here and give people a status update? On the pro audio boards, some of the best manufacturers do that. it would be nice to see that here.


They don't even respond anymore on their "official" FB page. Mind boggling.


----------



## Johnny

Unfortunately no new info, other than: he basically told us to @#$% ourselves, he doesn't care about Opus, or us, or anyone for that matter... He's making soup... He said he isn't involved in the company anymore, yet some how, I swore I watched a NAMM video about him proclaiming how game changing and awesome his new library is going to be if it ever comes out? (but that doesn't mean he's involved in any way, shape or form...) And maybe I am just dreaming this... Great sales pitch though! Excellent customer service!


----------



## babylonwaves

the last EW guy making a statement here was N and from a PR point of view it was a disaster, according to others.


----------



## Jose7822

Let’s put it this way, if EW actually cared about communication they wouldn’t have gotten rid of their forums, and they would at the VERY LEAST be responsive on Facebook (which is they current “official” channel for communicating with their customers).

It’s obvious that they don’t care (and when I say they, I mean the higher ups. The decision makers). I know that there are EW employees that actually care, but unfortunately they are not the ones with the power to change the status quo. Nick said it, he and Doug don’t have time to be on the sampling business full time. That’s why I decided that I don’t have money for them. I don’t care how good OPUS ends up being, unless it ends up like STUPID cheap. Then I might bite, lol. MAYBE! 😂🤣


----------



## BasariStudios

This is what their website says:


----------



## RightOnTime

AB3 said:


> A manufacturer should have enough public relations skills to effectively post in these threads. This seems like a fairly classy forum as a whole, I would think that any manufacturer would get a fair shake here.


Agreed, though never mind third-party forums, they didn't even say a word on their official channels! They pulled their planned NAMM presentation at the last minute, and not a word has been spoken about HOOPUS on their website, social media etc since. 

Companies can do whatever the hell they like with their products and that's absolutely fine... except for the fact *they advised people to make purchases before the release date *to make sure they 'got the best deal'. A lot of people took out subscriptions specifically because for it. So it's not about entitlement, it's basically a case of false advertising. 

Most companies would have posted something like "We're sorry but we've decided to delay the release in order to make sure the quality meets our highest standards. If you took out a subscription specifically for this new product, drop us a message and we'll be happy to extend your subscription by the length of the delay, free of charge", and that would have kept everyone fairly happy. 

But_ compete radio silence_ is just baffling and has probably cost them a ton of money and goodwill. I really can't get my head around it.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

BasariStudios said:


> This is what their website says:


Yes, and Nick told us that. Just because he’s a producer doesn’t mean he has any involvement with the EW marketing/management aspect. At least he had the balls to come here and chat (for a short while, anyways!).


----------



## Johnny

None the less... N still represents a brand, that of which he promoted! This product, and EW is a business- fact. So he was representing his product at NAMM with promo vids etc... He or the entity known as EW, should probably chime in and give us at the least an update on their extremely delayed product- should they want any sales at all... The days of being an enigma, living in the shadows, sex, drugs/rock and roll are looooooong gone in 2021. People are into transparency, disclosure, honesty and influencers- not Axel Rose sadly... So trying to be the illusive artist in 2021 is just asking for illusive sales numbers and bankruptcy... How will one pay their illusive wix site, amazing marketing team, tech support, CEO and lead producer salaries if one does not make any product sales? That would be a lot of TSFH Spotify plays hits needed to make up the difference... I think the community is just asking for an honest update


----------



## BasariStudios

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Yes, and Nick told us that. Just because he’s a producer doesn’t mean he has any involvement with the EW marketing/management aspect. At least he had the balls to come here and chat (for a short while, anyways!).


We both know he has EVERYTHING to do with that.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

What's going to be the great irony / hypocrisy is all the people complaining and saying they'll never buy it now will be the first ones to jump in when it comes out, guaranteed.


----------



## cqd

ALittleNightMusic said:


> What's going to be the great irony / hypocrisy is all the people complaining and saying they'll never buy it now will be the first ones to jump in when it comes out, guaranteed.


I've had to stop myself saying this very thing ten times in the last week..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> What's going to be the great irony / hypocrisy is all the people complaining and saying they'll never buy it now will be the first ones to jump in when it comes out, guaranteed.


I for one, have already said that I’ll be buying it regardless. Depending on pricing, of course.


----------



## MauroPantin

If it sounds good I'm game. And I don't see how it would sound bad, given that it is only ol' faithful HO with sorely needed workflow improvements. The "downloads on demand" from the CC service are reason enough, IMHO.

A composer from a FB group I frequent (allegedly) heard that there should be a new release date soon, as in "next week" according to him. Whether that is what is going to transpire or not, I don't know.


----------



## Nimrod7

The story here reminds me Cyberpunk...






and I am gonna repeat myself:

- Software is tricky and small things can have big impact when you don't expect it (e.g. developer leaves, a tricky bug, memory leaks etc.).

- East West & Quantum Leap are different entities, that they have a strong partnership. Nick is not East West. People that worked in building libraries, share opinion with Nick. It's TEDIOUS. All of us would like a soup after 25 years of TEDIOUS.

- This is a complicated project (new player & samples). Leave them be.

- I agree there could be communication. Project Red communicated. More anger came out from their fans.

- The people that managing their facebook page are just humans, probably disconnected from the dev cycle (as in most companies), absorbing a lot of anger every day.

I personally feel empathy about the situation.
I also feel empathy for the people that brought the subscription based on the expectations.

I guess we can all learn from pre-ordering things. There are a lot of stories out there to look at.
Remember, in every company there are Humans behind the scenes, not emotionless robots.


----------



## doctoremmet

Of course, it’s all people’s business. This forum does have a pretty mature and polite crowd though. Sure, there’s some echo chamber stuff going on here, and I agree with a lot of what you say here. I dislike entitled comments as much as the next guy, especially uncalled for ad hominems. But honestly, the few bursts of communication have been pretty lackluster on here, there’s no denying that.

I feel that people lose their patience at some point, when there is basically just an attitude of “problem? what problem”. A certain acknowledgment (from both “sides” if you will) that there is at least a problem would have been a way more effective strategy to “defuse” the whole thing. Like I said a few posts before, I see other vendors do this very succesfully on a daily basis. And I have been waiting for another preorder that I have paid months ago by now. In that case there are no threads full of complaints, simply because of effective communication. I have to say I witness a pretty flexible and understanding crowd on this forum, who -when informed properly- are likely more forgiving than the “masses” on the internet


----------



## muk

Is this really a 153-pages thread about a product that hasn't even been released yet? It makes Spitfire marketing look totally ineffective in comparison.

I just came up with a hypothesis seeing this thread:

The level of annoyance of a marketing campaign directly correlates with the amount of attention it gets on this forum.

I'm pretty sure there's some truth to it. I just don't know yet whether the correlation is linear or exponential.


----------



## Crowe

Nimrod7 said:


> The story here reminds me Cyberpunk...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and I am gonna repeat myself:
> 
> - Software is tricky and small things can have big impact when you don't expect it (e.g. developer leaves, a tricky bug, memory leaks etc.).
> 
> - East West & Quantum Leap are different entities, that they have a strong partnership. Nick is not East West. People that worked in building libraries, share opinion with Nick. It's TEDIOUS. All of us would like a soup after 25 years of TEDIOUS.
> 
> - This is a complicated project (new player & samples). Leave them be.
> 
> - I agree there could be communication. Project Red communicated. More anger came out from their fans.
> 
> - The people that managing their facebook page are just humans, probably disconnected from the dev cycle (as in most companies), absorbing a lot of anger every day.
> 
> I personally feel empathy about the situation.
> I also feel empathy for the people that brought the subscription based on the expectations.
> 
> I guess we can all learn from pre-ordering things. There are a lot of stories out there to look at.
> Remember, in every company there are Humans behind the scenes, not emotionless robots.


As a software developer, I agree on all of your bullet points. I also think none of that has any bearing on the situation.

CDPR fully mishandled their development cycle on a management level. They communicated that there would be slight delays and then released utterly broken software. What they should have done is not have announced a release before they could be certain they could make it. Hype-trains are simply way too attractive for managers to do any such things.

How complicated a piece of software is has zero bearing on communicated release-windows, how one communicates with customers or how one supports its audience. The difficulty of creating a piece of software is part of its estimated development. As a matter of fact, a company I worked for did exactly what EW is doing now and lost over 60% of its customer base. And they deserved it.

Software development is hell at the best of times which is why announcing anything before its ready is utterly incompetent.

I feel no empathy at all for this situation. There is no communication and both marketing and support have shown to repeatedly provide wrong instructions and information to customers. EW does not deserve its loyal fans. They are incompetent.

EDIT: Also I have no horse in this race. I do not need this software nor will I buy it until it's ready to go on one of EW's legendary sales.


----------



## doctoremmet

muk said:


> Is this really a 153-pages thread about a product that hasn't even been released yet? It makes Spitfire marketing look totally ineffective in comparison.
> 
> I just came up with a hypothesis seeing this thread:
> 
> The level of annoyance of a marketing campaign directly correlates with the amount of attention it gets on this forum.
> 
> I'm pretty sure there's some truth to it. I just don't know yet whether the correlation is linear or exponential.


To be fair though, I’d say 33% of the comments are meta comments - making observations ABOUT this thread *) and 25% are just for lols. 

*) much like yours (and this one)


----------



## muk

doctoremmet said:


> To be fair though, I’d say 33% of the comments are meta comments


Still, they are comments. Comments that products with a non-annoying marketing campaign don't get.


----------



## doctoremmet

muk said:


> Still, they are comments. Comments that products with a non-annoying marketing campaign don't get.


There’s no denying that. This whole forum is nothing more than comments. And it comes as no surprise to me that the comments flow to where the drama is.


----------



## Crowe

muk said:


> Still, they are comments. Comments that products with a non-annoying marketing campaign don't get.


I'd say it's more of a car crash than a marketing campaign. I was vaguely interested in the product until all of this.


----------



## doctoremmet

Shiirai said:


> I'd say it's more of a car crash than a marketing campaign. I was vaguely interested in the product until all of this.


Or is it?


----------



## Crowe

doctoremmet said:


> Or is it?


I dunno. I always hope people have standards and punish bad behavior.

I'm usually disappointed.


----------



## Jose7822

The reason why this thread is so long is because people keep bringing up the same topic of “you’re pressuring EW to release OPUS” over and over again. No, we are NOT!!

Seriously, how many times are we going to discuss this? I bet these are the same people saying “RTFM” to others elsewhere.


----------



## Evans

doctoremmet said:


> On a positive note, there are many happy examples of vendors and developers interacting with their users very succesfully on this forum.


Yep. There are even some who have heavy disagreements with users yet (in my recollection) have remained respectful. 

Spitfire Audio got involved in a thread about, what was it, brass dynamics? There was no name calling, just a reasonable response on their approach and why they stick to it. Even if everyone wasn't able to leave the thread happy, it at least did not turn into a dumpster fire.


----------



## Lazer42

Nimrod7 said:


> The story here reminds me Cyberpunk...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and I am gonna repeat myself:
> 
> - Software is tricky and small things can have big impact when you don't expect it (e.g. developer leaves, a tricky bug, memory leaks etc.).
> 
> - East West & Quantum Leap are different entities, that they have a strong partnership. Nick is not East West. People that worked in building libraries, share opinion with Nick. It's TEDIOUS. All of us would like a soup after 25 years of TEDIOUS.
> 
> - This is a complicated project (new player & samples). Leave them be.
> 
> - I agree there could be communication. Project Red communicated. More anger came out from their fans.
> 
> - The people that managing their facebook page are just humans, probably disconnected from the dev cycle (as in most companies), absorbing a lot of anger every day.
> 
> I personally feel empathy about the situation.
> I also feel empathy for the people that brought the subscription based on the expectations.
> 
> I guess we can all learn from pre-ordering things. There are a lot of stories out there to look at.
> Remember, in every company there are Humans behind the scenes, not emotionless robots.


The thing is that the one area you acknowledge that EW could do better - communication - is quite literally the only thing that 99% of people who are upset are upset about. People can generally understand a delay. Just look at the Modern Scoring Strings thread to see how some of the very same users handled that delay: with understanding and a cheerful attitude.

Why the difference there vs. here? The developer in the MSS thread came on and explained that there'd be a delay while giving a general timeline of what to expect. Here, there's been no communication at all. In fact, once it became apparent there would be a delay the only communication from the company was to renew pushes for people to buy subscriptions. They even went so far as to modify advertisements that had been put up in the past in order to remove the original launch date, which rightly or wrongly came across as an attempt to hide it. One of the Quantum Leap guys who has been involved with the project did come on and comment a bit, but his posts wound up upsetting people even more because he was apparently unaware of the things that EW had been claiming in its marketing and was basically telling people they were wrong about what they were expecting until people dug up old communications and ads and showed him, at which point he agreed there was an issue. 

So again, the problem is not the delay. Is there anyone here who is genuinely upset at the delay? I don't remember seeing anyone, but maybe. What is for certain is that most people here are upset that EW advertised a product for release on date X, told people they they needed to buy now or miss out, took money for the product, didn't release the product on time (which is mostly ok; things happen), but then said nothing about it, acted like there was nothing to see here, continued to encourage people to spend money and take money for the product, all while - and this is the biggest issue - going radio silent towards those who had spent money. It's not the delay that has people unhappy. It's taking money and then, after people got nothing for their money, going silent. 

This is how a lot of scams have worked, or other situations where people have lost money after companies didn't ever deliver a product they'd sold. Now I wouldn't expect this to be the case with a company as big as EW, but the point is that the situation is really starting to feel like that for many who have spent money for OPUS. It's now been getting close to two months since the missed release date, with the only communication we've gotten being second hand and indicating that we'd hear more in March - which we didn't. 

So it boils down to "company takes money, company doesn't deliver product, company misses another date for giving an update, company stays silent." People who be upset about that from any company. It just feels like you've been scammed or robbed. I think they'll deliver the product eventually, but the point is that the way it's being handled is pretty bad.


----------



## Saxer

Lazer42 said:


> The thing is that the one area you acknowledge that EW could do better - communication.


I think they don't communicate because of all the expected answers. I wouldn't do it either.


----------



## darthdeus

Communicating doesn't have to mean giving explanations or details about any processes. It can simply mean "we found unexpected problems close to release and postponed it until we know more", or really anything of the sort. It's completely fine if they say "we can't give exact release date" or the standard "it's done when it's done" ... but radio silence is just a bullshit way out of any kind of responsibility. People appreciate honesty.

It's only when the ego is so big that one can't admit making a mistake that they resort to not saying anything. There's a ton of cases of companies admitting mistakes and people reacting positively, but there aren't many cases of companies being bullshitters and boredline doing scammy marketing stuff (e.g. the pricing changes) in the hopes that "nobody would notice" or "it's better this way".


----------



## Trax

By keeping users in the dark this thread has continually been active despite no new news. This is genius marketing.


----------



## darthdeus

Maybe for some, hard to say, because personally I would have bought it on release, but after this I won’t. The samples may be good, but the way they communicate is so offputting for me to not purchase anything from EW ever again, and reading the hundreds of pages I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one.


----------



## AndyP

Inadequate communication is one thing. Getting people to subscribe and then not release the product is another.
Even if they pay back the money, it's a debt the buyer owes and that's bad form.

Nick is not EW and therefore not responsible for the communication of the company. On the other hand, he does not have to react so disparagingly to potential buyers.

This is all very unfortunate and does nothing to improve customer relations.

I honestly don't care relatively much when OPUS comes. If it is a good product at a reasonable price I might take it. A certain stale aftertaste remains nevertheless.

I can live without OPUS, so I don't care if and when it comes.


----------



## CDNmusic

Lazer42 said:


> So again, the problem is not the delay. Is there anyone here who is genuinely upset at the delay? I don't remember seeing anyone, but maybe. What is for certain is that most people here are upset that EW advertised a product for release on date X, told people they they needed to buy now or miss out, took money for the product, didn't release the product on time (which is mostly ok; things happen), but then said nothing about it, acted like there was nothing to see here, continued to encourage people to spend money and take money for the product, all while - and this is the biggest issue - going radio silent towards those who had spent money. It's not the delay that has people unhappy. It's taking money and then, after people got nothing for their money, going silent.


Very well said. I've been following this thread and don't necessarily agree with the way some of the frustration is shared but I agree 100% with you, the delay is not the problem, is simply the lack of communication. 

I wrote to EW support last week, the response was almost instantaneous which was great but the answer was the same we've heard before and what they have posted on their FB page. New functionality and the desire to ensure they have a fully functional product are the reasons they are not ready to release it yet. I appreciate their quick response but they could avoid damaging their reputation if they were more open to communicate with their existing and potential customer in a more effective way.


----------



## AB3

So, I have a silver bullet processor on order. They have run into problems with suppliers. About once a month they write to everyone who has prepaid and let them know what the problems are and when it is likely to be resolved. In a recent email, they even asked me if I wanted a refund. And I know other manufacturers that comb the boards about their products constantly to make sure that if there are any concerns, that at least someone is communicating. When items are prepaid, that is even more critical.
Sorry, but the behavior of a company in the last year is likely to be the behavior of the next year. And that means that a firm is either having financial difficulties, organizational difficulties or something else. But in any even, what does this mean for product support, a change in operating systems, etc. Having said all this, if someone in a responsible position were to write on this board in the next week or so and offer an apology and start explaining what is going on, I would be one of the first to forgive.


----------



## szczaw

AB3 said:


> All 151 pages? No. Is it filled with posts about people wanting a response from EW? If it is, then why should they be supported.


There's been a response from Nick Phoenix: it will be out most likely in the first quarter and back in, I think the end of February, that it will be out soon. Given all the negativity, I don't think we'll see an unrolling of the product. Instead, it will come in a stealth-mode.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Shiirai said:


> As a software developer, I agree on all of your bullet points. I also think none of that has any bearing on the situation.
> 
> CDPR fully mishandled their development cycle on a management level. They communicated that there would be slight delays and then released utterly broken software. What they should have done is not have announced a release before they could be certain they could make it. Hype-trains are simply way too attractive for managers to do any such things.
> 
> How complicated a piece of software is has zero bearing on communicated release-windows, how one communicates with customers or how one supports its audience. The difficulty of creating a piece of software is part of its estimated development. As a matter of fact, a company I worked for did exactly what EW is doing now and lost over 60% of its customer base. And they deserved it.
> 
> Software development is hell at the best of times which is why announcing anything before its ready is utterly incompetent.
> 
> I feel no empathy at all for this situation. There is no communication and both marketing and support have shown to repeatedly provide wrong instructions and information to customers. EW does not deserve its loyal fans. They are incompetent.
> 
> EDIT: Also I have no horse in this race. I do not need this software nor will I buy it until it's ready to go on one of EW's legendary sales.





Shiirai said:


> nor will I buy it until it's ready to go on one of EW's legendary sales.


So two months after it releases then... At 60% off until the next season when it is 40% off on Black Friday


----------



## Lazer42

Saxer said:


> I think they don't communicate because of all the expected answers. I wouldn't do it either.


This seems to me to be the big myth in software development - that if you communicate it makes things worse because you will be expected to say more than you're able to. I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but I see this dynamic play out all the time with game developers. Some of them seem unwilling to communicate with the userbase or to say anything other than the barest minimum when they do and for this same sort of fear, while others seem to disprove the myth by communicating in exactly the ways that are feared and with good results. 

So again, while I actually dislike the product itself (or at least what I've heard of it), I think MSS is a good comparison here. Those developers communicated in the way that it's being suggested EW was wary of doing and things went very well for them. They didn't give a ton of information or say much other than, for the most part, very general comments about there being a delay but the forum responded very positively.


----------



## doctoremmet

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> So two months after it releases then... At 60% off until the next season when it is 40% off on Black Friday


100 bucks says that the 60% discounted full price will be lower than the EWHO Diamond upgrade price, which will never be discounted


----------



## dzilizzi

doctoremmet said:


> 100 bucks says that the 60% discounted full price will be lower than the EWHO Diamond upgrade price, which will never be discounted


Not taking that bet!


----------



## Nimrod7

doctoremmet said:


> 100 bucks says that the 60% discounted full price will be lower than the EWHO Diamond upgrade price, which will never be discounted


Same story with WUP...


----------



## Trash Panda

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> So two months after it releases then... At 60% off until the next season when it is 40% off on Black Friday


But they’ll lower the retail price, so the 40% off will be a better* price!

* actual price will be at least $20-$80 higher than the 60% off price.


----------



## BasariStudios

Buh Bye Hoopus, Poka Poka!
https://audiobro.com/modern-scoring-strings-update-and-release-notes/


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

BasariStudios said:


> Buh Bye Hoopus, Poka Poka!
> https://audiobro.com/modern-scoring-strings-update-and-release-notes/


Sorry man, two completely different libraries.


----------



## FKVStudio

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Sorry man, two completely different libraries.


Certain. The way of communicating with customers is also very different. Much better Audiobro.


----------



## Allen Constantine

Wrote them a message yesterday! 

Apparently they saw it! Still waiting for a reply. The "seen" thing is a trend nowadays, lol!


----------



## Crossroads

I, for one, have just bought Anthology to move away from EW. Have lots of different libraries. Times have changed, and my patience with these kinds if practises has run out.


----------



## cqd

Lads..calm down.. Jesus.. it's a sample library..ye don't have to buy it..ye don't have to post in this thread either..

Make music with what you have..or go outside or something..

There are certain posters here that shouldn't be allowed buy it at this stage..

Messaging them telling them to comment on a tread on a forum?..why would they care what idiots on the internet think?..


----------



## TopCat

I'm honestly just really, really excited to see how it's going to turn out!


----------



## Quantum Leap

soon


----------



## Frederick

Quantum Leap said:


> oh and that orchestrator software if freaking crazy! I had no involvement in that. Never seen anything like it.


That statement would be far more interesting if we would know if you meant that as in: "Also compared to the existing Sonuscore orchestrator (The orchestra)."

Thank you for the update!


----------



## mcalis

Quantum Leap said:


> You think with all the music I’m involved in, I have any involvement in the software development and marketing and day to day at EW? You really think that EW would allow me to come on here and tell you you are stupid, if I worked for them? Ive said hundreds of things that no logical business owner would ever say on a forum. —— I am told the software is close. I finished my end a few weeks ago, checking the patches. That’s all I know. oh and that orchestrator software if freaking crazy! I had no involvement in that. Never seen anything like it.


I for one can't wait to get my hands on SOUPUS. When's that coming out, Nick?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

I mean, any soup that has been given this long to stew, is more than worth the 20yr wait...


----------



## BasariStudios

Quantum Leap said:


> soon


What about the Soup?


----------



## Allen Constantine

cqd said:


> Lads..calm down.. Jesus.. it's a sample library..ye don't have to buy it..ye don't have to post in this thread either..
> 
> Make music with what you have..or go outside or something..
> 
> There are certain posters here that shouldn't be allowed buy it at this stage..
> 
> Messaging them telling them to comment on a tread on a forum?..why would they care what idiots on the internet think?..



"Certain posters here that shouldn't be allowed buy it at this stage" - Seriously??? Someone tries to make some things right and he gets rocks thrown out at him? What would V.I become? 

Ehm..., pardon us "idiots" but you're not that polite, right?


----------



## Evans

cqd said:


> why would they care what idiots on the internet think?..


I would imagine a fair few of those "idiots" are Composer Cloud subscribers.

Also, while I'm not bothered by this personally (I'll likely pick up Opus with no fuss due to my experience with EWHO Diamond), you miss the point that was made on multiple occasions - including on very recent pages - about the bait-and-switch of EastWest getting a boost of paid subscribers with a release date that has now been missed by about a quarter of a year.

Even though I'm not impacted, I can at least _empathize _with someone who jumped on a subscription because of the marketed release date of Opus.

Yet your post seems to show the _inverse _of empathy. You may say they're idiots. I've seen someone say that those people are gullible and should not have been swayed so much by marketing. To me, that dismissive behavior is disappointingly elitist and lacks class.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

AllenConstantine said:


> "Certain posters here that shouldn't be allowed buy it at this stage" - Seriously??? Someone tries to make some things right and he gets rocks thrown out at him? What would V.I become?
> 
> Ehm..., pardon us "idiots" but you're not that polite, right?


Gotta love those posts from anonymous members


----------



## Allen Constantine

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Gotta love those posts from anonymous members




Let's take his statement into consideration. Maybe he got really tired and decided to hop in and divert people from the actual release date.


----------



## AB3

When someone sells a product that needs support, the producer of the product, needs to provide some assurances that it i a viable company. For instance, I saw a whole lot of people buy computers from a company that offered lifetime warranties. What they did not realize, is that a lifetime warranty only lasts as long as the provider. If the provider is gone in a year, so is the lifetime warranty. Reading parts of this long thread, where one has to presume that there are many, many good people on this board, a viable company would likely step in and clarify matters. Not seeing that here or on their website, is not a good sign. Maybe it will be a great product. Maybe it will be worth buying on a risk. But it appears shaky from a reliability and support standpoint. And frankly, it is not a business model that should be encouraged.

At the same time, they can still engage here or on their website, or any other forum for that matter, and clear things up. I hope they do. I would like them to be very successful. I would like them to feel a sense of safety in coming forward. If it happens, let's do out best to be respectful. Forgiveness is in order. But the ball is in their court.


----------



## Allen Constantine

AB3 said:


> When someone sells a product that needs support, the producer of the product, needs to provide some assurances that it i a viable company. For instance, I saw a whole lot of people buy computers from a company that offered lifetime warranties. What they did not realize, is that a lifetime warranty only lasts as long as the provider. If the provider is gone in a year, so is the lifetime warranty. Reading parts of this long thread, where one has to presume that there are many, many good people on this board, a viable company would likely step in and clarify matters. Not seeing that here or on their website, is not a good sign. Maybe it will be a great product. Maybe it will be worth buying on a risk. But it appears shaky from a reliability and support standpoint. And frankly, it is not a business model that should be encouraged.
> 
> At the same time, they can still engage here or on their website, or any other forum for that matter, and clear things up. I hope they do. I would like them to be very successful. I would like them to feel a sense of safety in coming forward. If it happens, let's do out best to be respectful. Forgiveness is in order. But the ball is in their court.


Exactly! Ball's in their court! 

A decent timeframe would be sufficient, no matter where they mention it!


----------



## dzilizzi

I'm just really interested in the orchestrator. I've been looking at MSS because of their orchestrator-like thing. I find it hard to program ostinatos that sound good - and a lot of times it is a mix between the sample library not keeping up and the computer not keeping up. Well they are kind of runs/arpeggios and maybe not really ostinatos? Anyway, hoping this will work well.


----------



## jaketanner

I have no interest in OPUS (actually I did many months ago out of curiosity), but you would think that by now developers would get that all their customers want is communication, not dead silence...simply to know that work is in progress and that their investment in a sub, or upgrade path wasn't wasted. I personally have a start and stop sub plan that I can reinstate at any time...this is how I was going to test out OPUS once it came out, but I am not eagerly waiting for it....but I do know the feeling especially when so many other products are coming out and you are holding your money for one or the other....then sale opportunities are missed.


----------



## cqd

My point is it's late.. complaining on the internet isn't going to make it come out any quicker..

I understand people were disappointed in January, but like, deal with it..
Hollywood orchestra is perfectly serviceable..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

dzilizzi said:


> I'm just really interested in the orchestrator. I've been looking at MSS because of their orchestrator-like thing. I find it hard to program ostinatos that sound good - and a lot of times it is a mix between the sample library not keeping up and the computer not keeping up. Well they are kind of runs/arpeggios and maybe not really ostinatos? Anyway, hoping this will work well.


Have you tried the ostinato feature in the Spitfire Symphonic libraries (I think you have those)? It is decent. So is the Ostinato series by Sonokinetic....and NI Action/Emotive Strings.


----------



## cqd

And, sorry, an inverse of empathy?..

It's a sample library.. My heart bleeds for ye..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cqd said:


> My point is it's late.. complaining on the internet isn't going to make it come out any quicker..
> 
> I understand people were disappointed in January, but like, deal with it..
> Hollywood orchestra is perfectly serviceable..


----------



## cqd

Jeremy Spencer said:


>


I know the feeling..


----------



## Crossroads

cqd said:


> Hollywood orchestra is perfectly serviceable..


Except for when it's only ten years behind in terms of feature set. Because, funny enough, Studio One has these things called sound variations, which are really the new standard in terms of articulation management. And they can work with ANYTHING except... well take a guess?

And you can say this is Presonus' fault. Except when there's only one developer not adhering to modern standards. And guess who that is?

And with the absolute silence... well I'm building my new template now and take a wild guess who gets left out this time? So, perfectly servicable? I wouldn't say that since it's the only library I have that does not integrate well within a modern template.

Sure, it sounds good... but that's about it right now.


----------



## cqd

I'm sure east west are holding crisis meetings as we speak deciding on a strategy on how to approach the VI-C thread..


----------



## cqd

Quantum Leap said:


> soon


//Thread


----------



## dzilizzi

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Have you tried the ostinato feature in the Spitfire Symphonic libraries (I think you have those)? It is decent. So is the Ostinato series by Sonokinetic....and NI Action/Emotive Strings.


Sonokinetic is one note - I haven't tried runs with it. I also have their modal runs. I have tried the action/emotive strings. But they are phrases. The ostinato feature in SSO - you know, I forget about that. I think I tried to figure it out when I first got the library but it was a little too much at once and then, as I said, it got forgotten. 

Did I mention I have too many libraries? I think I've said that before. So far, none of them has made me John Williams. Or Tchaikosvky. Or Mozart. It is very disappointing.


----------



## Crossroads

cqd said:


> I'm sure east west are holding crisis meetings as we speak deciding on a strategy on how to approach the VI-C thread..


Look, why do you come into a thread about OPUS to complain about people complaining about a lack of OPUS? Sure there are other, more interesting threads going on for you right now?

Like, what is your point?


----------



## Crowe

Crossroads said:


> Look, why do you come into a thread about OPUS to complain about people complaining about a lack of OPUS? Sure there are other, more interesting threads going on for you right now?
> 
> Like, what is your point?


His point is that he doesn't care about bad business practices and this makes him a much better person than everyone else.

I think.

I don't know. I'm guessing trolls are going to troll.


----------



## Lazer42

cqd said:


> My point is it's late.. complaining on the internet isn't going to make it come out any quicker..
> 
> I understand people were disappointed in January, but like, deal with it..
> Hollywood orchestra is perfectly serviceable..


Let's say you're going to buy a car. You do your research, go to some dealerships, decide on a car, and put down your deposit. Now you already knew before choosing this car that there was a recall on one part so they need to replace that part before they can deliver the car to you. They tell you the car will be ready on April 7th. Then April 7th comes around and they call and tell you that there was a delay with the replacement part coming in so it won't be ready on the 7th but they'll give you an update soon. On the 8th, they call you can tell you the new part is expected on the 9th and you'll have it on the 10th. You would probably be at least a little annoyed or frustrated by the delay, but at the same time it's not that big a deal.

Now consider the same scenario but instead of calling you to tell you it isn't ready, they just don't show up. On the 8th, you call them and nobody answers. Finally you manage to reach somebody and they just tell you that it isn't ready and say nothing more. Several days go by and you still have no idea when this car that you already paid for is going to be ready. You start to wonder if you'll ever see the car at all. (This is similar to a situation that really happened to me, by the way.) 

There's a pretty big difference between those two scenarios. I could be wrong and I apologize if I am, but my impression of your comment is that you're saying people are essentially in the first situation and are being unreasonable by complaining about it, whereas in reality most people don't seem to care about the delay itself and are more upset by the factors that make the second scenario problematic.


----------



## dzilizzi

I just come here for the popcorn. 🍿🍿🍿

Though chocolate would be better! The BBCSO thread had chocolate. 🍫🍫


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## dzilizzi

Lazer42 said:


> Let's say you're going to buy a car. You do your research, go to some dealerships, decide on a car, and put down your deposit. Now you already knew before choosing this car that there was a recall on one part so they need to replace that part before they can deliver the car to you. They tell you the car will be ready on April 7th. Then April 7th comes around and they call and tell you that there was a delay with the replacement part coming in so it won't be ready on the 7th but they'll give you an update soon. On the 8th, they call you can tell you the new part is expected on the 9th and you'll have it on the 10th. You would probably be at least a little annoyed or frustrated by the delay, but at the same time it's not that big a deal.
> 
> Now consider the same scenario but instead of calling you to tell you it isn't ready, they just don't show up. On the 8th, you call them and nobody answers. Finally you manage to reach somebody and they just tell you that it isn't ready and say nothing more. Several days go by and you still have no idea when this car that you already paid for is going to be ready. You start to wonder if you'll ever see the car at all. (This is similar to a situation that really happened to me, by the way.)
> 
> There's a pretty big difference between those two scenarios. I could be wrong and I apologize if I am, but my impression of your comment is that you're saying people are essentially in the first situation and are being unreasonable by complaining about it, whereas in reality most people don't seem to care about the delay itself and are more upset by the factors that make the second scenario problematic.


That sounds like the Dodge dealer I used to take my car to when it was under warranty. 

I traded it in for a Ford. Their communication was much better.

You know, Audiobro just fixed a bunch of stuff on their MSS. And it has some really cool ostinato/arpeggiator options.....


----------



## jaketanner

cqd said:


> I'm sure east west are holding crisis meetings as we speak deciding on a strategy on how to approach the VI-C thread..


Simple: "Hey guys, I know we promised you a release date months ago, but we ran into some last minute issues due to covid, but we promise it will be worth the wait. We apologize for not being that communicative with you, and we appreciate your patience and support." There....not hard at all.


----------



## doctoremmet

dzilizzi said:


> That sounds like the Dodge dealer I used to take my car to when it was under warranty.


Wait a minute... I was told Al Bundy was the last one to drive a Dodge... or was it a Buick?


----------



## Trash Panda

dzilizzi said:


> That sounds like the Dodge dealer I used to take my car to when it was under warranty.
> 
> I traded it in for a Ford. Their communication was much better.
> 
> You know, Audiobro just fixed a bunch of stuff on their MSS. And it has some really cool ostinato/arpeggiator options.....


Yes, but AudioBro doesn’t constantly name drop, brag about all their awards and accomplishments or belittle their customers on VI-Control, so how can you take them seriously and expect quality?


----------



## dzilizzi

doctoremmet said:


> Wait a minute... I was told Al Bundy was the last one to drive a Dodge... or was it a Buick?


Dodge still makes trucks. But it was a Dodge/Chrysler/Buick dealer (same company) I had this cute little PT Cruiser. Very comfortable to drive with horrible blind spots. Mine had a crack in the starter that they didn't want to fix because I didn't buy it from them and they don't get reimbursed for warranty work. They kept telling me they fixed it, but never actually did (or every starter they replaced it with had the same crack)

Had an issue with my Ford while traveling. Still under warranty. Took it to the nearest dealership. Fixed it, no charge, no hassle, no problem.


----------



## Crossroads

Trash Panda said:


> Yes, but AudioBro doesn’t constantly name drop, brag about all their awards and accomplishments or belittle their customers on VI-Control, so how can you take them seriously and expect quality?


With that said, why don't we change the name from HOOPUS to HOOPLA?🤣


----------



## doctoremmet

Those PT Cruisers looked like 1950s gangster cars didn’t they? I remember those


----------



## dzilizzi

doctoremmet said:


> Those PT Cruisers looked like 1950s gangster cars didn’t they? I remember those


It was a really cool car when it worked. I did feel like I needed to carry a tommy gun though.


----------



## CT

I've said this before... most developers now are putting out perfectly usable and in many ways equivalent tools. More and more, a deciding factor on what to choose, for me anyway, is what sort of people I am giving money to. I'm probably not the only one. 

There's another rather prominent developer I've recently sworn off of. Don't know enough about the drama of this thread to close the book on EW but they don't exactly have the best history with this stuff.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

EW has followed the same "PR" approach for a long time (even when they had a community rep, that person wasn't exactly friendly - quite defensive in fact). I also think many people here view communicating on Vi-C as a "requirement" for developers. When has EW _ever_ posted in Commercial Announcements? Your view of Vi-C's place in the world is likely inflated. It's like Tim Cook going to comment on the MacRumors forums.

(This does not mean that selling a subscription on the promise that Opus was coming soon was right. But _most_ complaining users here are not in that camp - or if they are, they're not very bright since it has been mentioned multiple times they can get refunded for the months they paid without Opus.)


----------



## Lazer42

ALittleNightMusic said:


> EW has followed the same "PR" approach for a long time (even when they had a community rep, that person wasn't exactly friendly - quite defensive in fact). I also think many people here view communicating on Vi-C as a "requirement" for developers. When has EW _ever_ posted in Commercial Announcements? Your view of Vi-C's place in the world is likely inflated. It's like Tim Cook going to comment on the MacRumors forums.
> 
> (This does not mean that selling a subscription on the promise that Opus was coming soon was right. But _most_ complaining users here are not in that camp - or if they are, they're not very bright since it has been mentioned multiple times they can get refunded for the months they paid without Opus.)


I'm not entirely sure if this is true. For example, I did the option to pay for the full year at once since, as is usually the case, it was the best deal. It's one thing for month-to-month subscribers to be let out of the commitment (which is ordinarily supposed to be for one year even if it's paid monthly), but I have a hard time imagining I could get a refund for that kind of lump sum.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lazer42 said:


> I'm not entirely sure if this is true. For example, I did the option to pay for the full year at once since, as is usually the case, it was the best deal. It's one thing for month-to-month subscribers to be let out of the commitment (which is ordinarily supposed to be for one year even if it's paid monthly), but I have a hard time imagining I could get a refund for that kind of lump sum.


Have you contacted them? Did you buy it recently based on the Opus promotion? If nothing else, they might add a couple extra months to your subscription.


----------



## Mystic

jaketanner said:


> Simple: "Hey guys, I know we promised you a release date months ago, but we ran into some last minute issues due to covid, but we promise it will be worth the wait. We apologize for not being that communicative with you, and we appreciate your patience and support." There....not hard at all.


This x1000. This is all people have been asking for. Something they should have done from the start and chose to not even address. This thread would probably be 10 pages long if they had just done that. I have a feeling though that this is exactly what they wanted. What is 10 pages of discussion on a forum compared to 156? Doesn't matter that it's all bitching, they know most of the people complaining will buy it regardless when they come out. It just keeps them at the front of people's minds and generates more interest in them.


----------



## Getsumen

Frederick said:


> That statement would be far more interesting if we would know if you meant that as in: "Also compared to the existing Sonuscore orchestrator (The orchestra)."
> 
> Thank you for the update!


They actually hired Sonuscore to make or consult on the orchestrator right? I wonder how different it actually will be


----------



## Trax

cqd said:


> My point is it's late.. complaining on the internet isn't going to make it come out any quicker..


Are people complaining to make it come out quicker?


----------



## cqd

Dun dun dun!!!!..


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Just posted on their FB page! 🥳🥳


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

So do you guys think "big announcement coming at 9am tomorrow" means before or after christmas?


----------



## cqd

Yeah, probably another scam to con people into keeping up their cc sub for another month..


----------



## Lewis Emblack

You guys are so cynical 😂 Seriously though, Nick did say "very soon", and when I complained to EastWest directly they did something for me which covered 3 months, which suggested it would be out in April, so I'm saying end of April at the latest, if not sooner...maybe...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

StarfireBlack said:


> Just posted on their FB page! 🥳🥳


Pop Brass expansion? Louis Armstrong solo library?


----------



## dzilizzi

StarfireBlack said:


> Just posted on their FB page! 🥳🥳


It's their latest big band library. Nothing to do with HOOPUS.


----------



## cqd

dzilizzi said:


> It's their latest big band library. Nothing to do with HOOPUS.


I don't want to tempt fate.. but that would be hilariously funny in fairness..


----------



## jaketanner

doctoremmet said:


> Those PT Cruisers looked like 1950s gangster cars didn’t they? I remember those


I had a PT Cruiser...stick shift, loved it actually.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Seeing as the picture is the silhouette of the dude playing the trumpet under the blue light in the video, it being anything other than HOOPUS would be very odd 😂


----------



## Jose7822

Actually, as someone said on Facebook, it’s the Solo Trumpet library we’ve all been waiting for. Why else would they have a solo trumpet player on their poster? 😝


----------



## Trash Panda

Hollywood jazz brass incoming!


----------



## BasariStudios

Here, this is on EW FB today:


----------



## Toecutter

This is such a strange thread, I love the random Nick outbursts XD I still have hope that HOOPUS will knock our socks off!


----------



## alcorey

soon.............Alright!....now we finally got our answer!
Soonest Opus's Out November

Just a little humor


----------



## AB3

alcorey said:


> soon.............Alright!....now we finally got our answer!
> Soonest Opus's Out November
> 
> Just a little humor


Wow - a mystical acrostic! They have been trying to communicate with us all along!


----------



## philthevoid

AB3 said:


> Wow - a mystical acrostic! They have been trying to communicate with us all along!


They are called East West Communications, inc. after all.


----------



## mcalis

Laurin Lenschow said:


> So do you guys think "big announcement coming at 9am tomorrow" means before or after christmas?


Christmas of which year? 2025?

I will be disappointed if this announcement isn't an announcement of an announcement, like they did with Hollywood Choirs. Anyone remember that? It was a very similar situation where the ultimate release date kept shifting and there was almost zero communication from them. It's just how they roll, unfortunately.


----------



## Nimrod7

StarfireBlack said:


> Just posted on their FB page! 🥳🥳


----------



## Serge Pavkin

Nimrod7 said:


>



I read in his eyes: What will happen to this thread? Will it fade out after release? Will this sparkling set of humor, anger, memes disappear forever? Oh gods, let them show again the old 10-minute promo video at 9-00!


----------



## MauroPantin




----------



## janila

Let the beta testing commence!


----------



## Chungus

dzilizzi said:


> It's their latest big band library. Nothing to do with HOOPUS.


Not gonna lie, I wouldn't even be mad at that.


----------



## prodigalson

Chungus said:


> Not gonna lie, I wouldn't even be mad at that.


I’d prefer it


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

philthevoid said:


> They are called East West Communications, inc. after all.


EWCi - Eric Whitacre Choir invincible...


----------



## Johnny

Imagine though: the hype EW could have leveraged? We know they are all about the money. (As most businesses are) but imagine if for every week Opus was delayed, EW released a hype new demo track/ teaser? Maybe a new Opus single from Two Steps, or T.J.B? Or hell, maybe anything other than nothing? Or they could lose thousands of potential sales and piss people off with radar silence- making the product scope and budget barely break even against the man power and money Opus cost to redesign  The hype would have been real man... A tragic story about loss, but lesson learned in the end... Just teasing us with anything, would nearly assure that there would not be a single angry soul, but the exciting and burning customer wallets ready to explode out nothing but dough with the EW logo on it : )


----------



## EgM

In 10 minutes, the international table flipping tournament begins


----------



## Nimrod7

EgM said:


> In 10 minutes, the international table flipping tournament begins


I bet there will be a delay!


----------



## cqd

Is it on the YouTube or what?..


----------



## EgM

cqd said:


> Is it on the YouTube or what?..



Not yet, but it's 8:56am PST


----------



## Zamenhof

In five minutes, I'm ready to throw all my money at a company that strongly urged me to upgrade from Gold to Diamond before a certain date after which they heavily discounted said upgrade. I love being a whiny pushover!


----------



## EgM

Facebook video is live


----------



## EgM

"Watch the official trailer to find out when Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition will be released. 
Stay tuned for our official walkthroughs: the first an in-depth look at Hollywood Orchestrator, the second on the new instruments recorded for Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition, and the third on all the innovative new features and effects powered by our new OPUS engine.
Preorder or subscribe today!"


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

April 20th release. And the day all the people that swore they'll never buy it can leave this thread.


----------



## Johnny

Only 13 days!


----------



## EgM

The announcement was right on time though!


----------



## Lazer42

It says available April 20.


----------



## cqd

Meh..


----------



## Zamenhof

ALittleNightMusic said:


> April 20th release.


Yeah, but which year?


----------



## Johnny

I'm catering to April 20th will be the day of EW radar silence and no product launch  Like Hollywood Choirs and so on... They might re-drop the NAMM trailer though!!! That would be cool!


----------



## pistacchio

April 20 and I must admit I AM SUPER HYPED. The production quality of the trailer is astounding, it sounds great and the interfaces seems reeeeeally nice. Super.

Is this a replacement for Hollywood Orchestra Gold or another product? I mean, in my "Ultimate Cubase Template" I have tons of HO libraries, should I replace them or add Opus to them?


----------



## Nimrod7

EgM said:


> The announcement was right on time though!


But announced a delay!


----------



## Johnny

pistacchio said:


> April 20 and I must admit I AM SUPER HYPED. The production quality of the trailer is astounding, it sounds great and the interfaces seems reeeeeally nice. Super.
> 
> Is this a replacement for Hollywood Orchestra Gold or another product? I mean, in my "Ultimate Cubase Template" I have tons of HO libraries, should I replace them or add Opus to them?


It would be nice if they gave us the midi data for the trailer though? EW is known for mocking up 99.9% of all of their demos with live orchestra : )


----------



## cqd

Johnny said:


> It would be nice if they gave us the midi data for the trailer though? EW is known for mocking up 99.9% of all of their demos with live orchestra : )


Did you not see the guy playing it on the keyboard?..


----------



## Nimrod7

Johnny said:


> It would be nice if they gave us the midi data for the trailer though? EW is known for mocking up 99.9% of all of their demos with live orchestra : )


Seriously? 😳
That's misleading advertising...


----------



## cqd

You can pre order it..
495 to upgrade from diamond..


----------



## doctoremmet

pistacchio said:


> April 20 and I must admit I AM SUPER HYPED. The production quality of the trailer is astounding, it sounds great and the interfaces seems reeeeeally nice. Super.
> 
> Is this a replacement for Hollywood Orchestra Gold or another product? I mean, in my "Ultimate Cubase Template" I have tons of HO libraries, should I replace them or add Opus to them?


Better start deleting them, as OPUS is right around the corner.


----------



## EgM

Opus upgrade from HO Diamond:

Yikes, kinda high


----------



## Zamenhof

cqd said:


> You can pre order it..
> 495 to upgrade from diamond..


And only 595 from Gold which means that it was a total waste of money to upgrade from Gold to Diamond beforehand... Oh well, OPUS preordered!


----------



## doctoremmet

995 times (1-0.6) = still way too expense


----------



## jamieboo

The video declares "over 130GB of brand new recordings". Is this new information?
I recall an earlier press release (still visible on their FB) stating "over 230GB of pristine new recordings".
Of course, technically 230GB _is_ 'over 130GB', but it seems like a considerable reduction in magnificence!


----------



## gst98

cqd said:


> You can pre order it..
> 495 to upgrade from diamond..


That's the price I predicted but I can't help but laugh at it now it's real


----------



## doctoremmet

So... 600 bucks not spent... Century Woodwinds / Infinite Strings - here we come


----------



## EgM

Meh, only thing I want is the ability to create my own keyswitches. I don't care one bit for new content nor the orchestrator, I prefer to write my own tracks.

But yeah 495 USD for keyswitches, that's stretching it


----------



## aka70




----------



## Toecutter

Johnny said:


> I'm catering to April 20th will be the day of EW radar silence and no product launch  Like Hollywood Choirs and so on... They might re-drop the NAMM trailer though!!! That would be cool!


 all the rage that would ensue... as long as they provide the popcorn, I'm in!

I only hope that the music in the trailer is not representative of the new sampled instruments... I'm not down with that at all


----------



## easyrider

doctoremmet said:


> So... 600 bucks not spent... Century Woodwinds / Infnite Strings - here we come


You’re not interested in opus?


----------



## Nimrod7

It's targeting to be a direct competitor to BBCSO based on the pricing / content.
Reading the descriptions seems to be really rich content wise. 
I can't find a full list of the included content anywhere, the articulations, the mic positions etc. (apart from what is on the descriptions), to compare to BBCSO. 

Assuming that they are asking people to preorder such list have to be already communicated (except if I missed it).


----------



## Markrs

cqd said:


> You can pre order it..
> 495 to upgrade from diamond..


At the upper end of what I was hoping for. Might be worth it, but HOD is still great without the upgrade.


----------



## yellow_lupine

And now let's wait for the OPUS player to replace PLAY for all of their orchestral libraries... if it will ever be.


----------



## doctoremmet

easyrider said:


> You’re not interested in opus?


I’m a Gold user, so 600 bucks for yet another sample player to sink time in. Not tempted at all. But the whole soap also has me down on the vendor. So no... Not that it matters one bit of course haha. And like Mark says... I’ll still have Gold


----------



## cqd

The orchestrator i


Markrs said:


> At the upper end of what I was hoping for. Might be worth it, but HOD is still great without the upgrade.


It's kind of on the border of what I don't mind paying too tbh..any more and I wouldn't have been too eager.. I thought the orchestrator would be extra..the spitfire comparison should probably be their full symphonic series, should it?..And that is 1&1/2 times the full price..


----------



## Nimrod7

Spitfire should announce a sale for BBCSO April 19th 😈


----------



## cqd

yellow_lupine said:


> And now let's wait for the OPUS player to replace PLAY for all of their orchestral libraries... if it will ever be.


From reading there I get the impression the old HO won't be transferred over..


----------



## Evans

Markrs said:


> Might be worth it, but HOD is still great without the upgrade.


I imagine I'll get this _eventually_, but frontloading a purchase in the pre-order period is in question. I'm interested in upcoming content that details the specific value of the upgrade from Diamond.

Value beyond the Orchestrator, that is, which at this time does not interest me. I've never really considered The Orchestra from Sonuscore, and it seems awkward anyway when I run EWHO today on a VEPro server separate from my DAW.


----------



## Toecutter

cqd said:


> You can pre order it..
> 495 to upgrade from diamond..


Thanks for the heads up, totally missed it!!

I'm considering that the music in the trailer is done with HOOPUS. 495 for what sonically will be a downgrade to everything else in my template? EW:


----------



## Markrs

cqd said:


> The orchestrator i
> 
> It's kind of on the border of what I don't mind paying too tbh..any more and I wouldn't have been too eager.. I thought the orchestrator would be extra..the spitfire comparison should probably be their full symphonic series, should it?..And that is 1&1/2 times the full price..


I'm exactly the same, it is not beyond what I would consider but it is a the top end. So no instant purchase for me. Plus I love BBCSO and HOD so I don't need it. I will wait on some demos and walkthroughs coming out.


----------



## dzilizzi

EgM said:


> Opus upgrade from HO Diamond:
> 
> Yikes, kinda high


Hmm. Wait until it goes on sale at 50 to 60% off, or pay at a rate that is slightly less than 50% off?


----------



## Markrs

Toecutter said:


> Thanks for the heads up, totally missed it!!
> 
> I'm considering that the music in the trailer is done with HOOPUS. 495 for what sonically will be a downgrade to everything else in my template? EW:


I agree with that, I didn't really like the tone or sound of the demo much, where normally I love the HOD sound in other demos.


----------



## Zamenhof

Markrs said:


> At the upper end of what I was hoping for. Might be worth it, but HOD is still great without the upgrade.


I have to admit that 500 bucks seems fair to me. It's cheaper than buying The Orchestra 2. It includes new ensemble patches. It includes the solo instruments. And it includes a long-needed rehaul of PLAY. Of course, nobody knows if EW will deliver on their promises.


----------



## gst98

In the NAMM preview, we saw that every library in the composer cloud was getting an update to at least a new skin. But it isn't clear whether we load into the new opus player. 

However, I would they have to because it will be the new player that has the features to download things a la carte from the cloud. Does this mean we assume OPUS player is a free upgrade to anyone on CC? And the old HWO just stays in the Play 6 plugin?


----------



## BasariStudios

Thank You EW for saving me Money this time.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lol how cheap are some people? < $500 for a huge amount of new recordings not to mention revamping all the existing content scripting in a new player that has tonal modification abilities now across FOUR sections of the orchestra plus a new orchestrator feature. But you'll gladly spend that much for another OT library of one section with less articulations...makes sense.


----------



## jamieboo

cqd said:


> I thought the orchestrator would be extra..


Yeah, me too! I was hoping that might be an area where I could save some money. I have no interest in the orchestrator and don't want it.
I cannot afford the upgrade cost from Diamond as is. If the orchestrator was separate I would choose not to include it and maybe save, I don't know, $150?
But as it is, I'll have to give it a miss for now.


----------



## Nimrod7

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Lol how cheap are some people? < $500 for a huge amount of new recordings not to mention revamping all the existing content scripting in a new player that has tonal modification abilities now across FOUR sections of the orchestra plus a new orchestrator feature. But you'll gladly spend that much for another OT library of one section with less articulations...makes sense.


Maybe because the amount of data or the amount of articulations have nothing to do with quality.
I am not saying that OPUS will not deliver (don't know), but OT has continuously delivered highly usable products.


----------



## doctoremmet

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Lol how cheap are some people? < $500 for a huge amount of new recordings not to mention revamping all the existing content scripting in a new player that has tonal modification abilities now across FOUR sections of the orchestra plus a new orchestrator feature. But you'll gladly spend that much for another OT library of one section with less articulations...makes sense.


I’d wager many of us have spent multiples of that figure. So most on here aren’t cheap at all. Rather, they’re considering whether or not they want to spend the next 500 bucks at EW or elsewhere


----------



## Christoph18

jamieboo said:


> Yeah, me too! I was hoping that might be an area where I could save some money. I have no interest in the orchestrator and don't want it.
> I cannot afford the upgrade cost from Diamond as is. If the orchestrator was separate I would choose not to include it and maybe save, I don't know, $150?
> But as it is, I'll have to give it a miss for now.


I'm in exactly the same boat. I hoped I could get it for around 300 bucks. Too bad they don't offer an educational discount for individual products :(


----------



## Toecutter

wow it's a sample library, have fun and all but some people are melting down on EW facebook page. No wonder they delete comments. Nasty stuff, calling EW thieves... no one is forcing you to buy or upgrade ffs. Grow up!!


----------



## gst98

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Lol how cheap are some people? < $500 for a huge amount of new recordings not to mention revamping all the existing content scripting in a new player that has tonal modification abilities now across FOUR sections of the orchestra plus a new orchestrator feature. But you'll gladly spend that much for another OT library of one section with less articulations...makes sense.


500 bucks for a violin section, trumpets, trombones, and a wind ens is expensive. There are no details about whether they have continued to the same detail of sampling of the rest of HWO. 

OT a la carte is not as expensive as this is, not to mention they are adding a whole new dynamic to berlin brass for free. It is expected by most to update the product, but EW has not done much of that and SF/OT didn't charge for their new players.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Nimrod7 said:


> Maybe because the amount of data or the amount of articulations have nothing to do with quality.
> I am not saying that OPUS will not deliver (don't know), but OT has continuously delivered highly usable products.


And EW hasn't? Generally regarded as very high quality products. Claiming it is too expensive is assuming it isn't - unless you don't think they are providing enough for the money?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

doctoremmet said:


> I’d wager many of us have spent multiples of that figure. So most on here aren’t cheap at all. Rather, they’re considering whether or not they want to spend the next 500 bucks at EW or elsewhere


Some folks are claiming it is too expensive - that's who I was responding to.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

gst98 said:


> 500 bucks for a violin section, trumpets, trombones, and a wind ens is expensive. There are no details about whether they have continued to the same detail of sampling of the rest of HWO.
> 
> OT a la carte is not as expensive as this is, not to mention they are adding a whole new dynamic to berlin brass for free. It is expected by most to update the product, but EW has not done much of that and SF/OT didn't charge for their new players.


You conveniently left out all the other things they've worked on that you get for the $500.


----------



## SupremeFist

EgM said:


> Opus upgrade from HO Diamond:
> 
> Yikes, kinda high


This implies that after the pre-order discount expires the upgrade price will be the same as the new license price, ie $995? I mean, maybe!


----------



## EgM

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Some folks are claiming it is too expensive - that's who I was responding to.



The main problem is that most of us (EWHO Diamond Orch owners) don't need new instruments, orchestrator or mic presets. It would've made more sense to offer different tiers.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

I may bite....but will need to see walkthoughs, etc. The score in the video doesn't sound that great IMO.


----------



## Toecutter

Gold x Diamond differences:

_The Mic positions available and the bit depth of the samples. Gold/Gold X is 2 mic positions, 16-bit samples. Diamond is All mic positions, 24-bit samples (and Hollywood Diamond Strings have extra bow change legatos and divisi strings not in the Gold version) _

That's interesting, strings divisi and extra legatos are exclusive to Diamond.


----------



## cqd

Some people are never happy..


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

EgM said:


> The main problem is that most of us (EWHO Diamond Orch owners) don't need new instruments, orchestrator or mic presets. It would've made more sense to offer different tiers.


As a Diamond owner, I will happily take the new recordings, orchestrator, and presets. But maybe in the future they'll allow non-Opus EWHO owners to get the new player for free?


----------



## EgM

Toecutter said:


> Gold x Diamond differences:
> 
> _The Mic positions available and the bit depth of the samples. Gold/Gold X is 2 mic positions, 16-bit samples. Diamond is All mic positions, 24-bit samples (and Hollywood Diamond Strings have extra bow change legatos and divisi strings not in the Gold version) _
> 
> That's interesting, strings divisi and extra legatos are exclusive to Diamond.



It was always that way, it still is today.


----------



## EgM

ALittleNightMusic said:


> As a Diamond owner, I will happily take the new recordings, orchestrator, and presets. But maybe in the future they'll allow non-Opus EWHO owners to get the new player for free?



Good when you need them I suppose, I would've thought they would've charged around 50 bucks for the new engine like they did when they released Play 6.


----------



## Markrs

Toecutter said:


> wow it's a sample library, have fun and all but some people are melting down on EW facebook page. No wonder they delete comments. Nasty stuff, calling EW thieves... no one is forcing you to buy or upgrade ffs. Grow up!!


That's not good. They are definitely not thieves, actually both their normal prices and subscription are very well priced. I never understand people getting angry about this sort of stuff. Don't buy if the price is not what you want to pay.


----------



## muziksculp

So what's the price of Hoopus if one owns the full EWH Diamond orch. ?


----------



## Evans

cqd said:


> Some people are never happy..


I'm sorry that you are never happy.


----------



## Toecutter

EgM said:


> It was always that way, it still is today.


Oh really? I didn't know that, I have diamond and always thought the only difference was the extra microphones.


----------



## EgM

Markrs said:


> That's not good. They are definitely not thieves, actually both their normal prices and subscription are very well priced. I never understand people getting angry about this sort of stuff. Don't buy if the price is not what you want to pay.



Hehe, I don't know what EW thought when they moved their entire forum to Facebook... FB has the worst kind of people


----------



## cqd

Markrs said:


> That's not good. They are definitely not thieves, actually both their normal prices and subscription are very well priced. I never understand people getting angry about this sort of stuff. Don't buy if the price is not what you want to pay.


Like..even here the last while there seemed to be a kind of a mob mentality forming.. weird.. that was kind of why I objected to it..


----------



## EgM

muziksculp said:


> So what's the price of Hoopus if one owns the full EWH Platinum orch. ?


 495 Pre-order pricing


----------



## Gauss

If I understand correctly Gold to Opus Gold looks like 395$ upgrade... Exactly on a price point where I just can't decide yet...


----------



## Markrs

Toecutter said:


> Gold x Diamond differences:
> 
> _The Mic positions available and the bit depth of the samples. Gold/Gold X is 2 mic positions, 16-bit samples. Diamond is All mic positions, 24-bit samples (and Hollywood Diamond Strings have extra bow change legatos and divisi strings not in the Gold version) _
> 
> That's interesting, strings divisi and extra legatos are exclusive to Diamond.


Always have been. I above Gold X via composer cloud and own Diamond and that is the main difference, beyond the mics and bit rate.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Toecutter said:


> wow it's a sample library, have fun and all but some people are melting down on EW facebook page. No wonder they delete comments. Nasty stuff, calling EW thieves... no one is forcing you to buy or upgrade ffs. Grow up!!


Melting down? I haven’t seen any slandering on FB.


----------



## EgM

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Melting down? I haven’t seen any slandering on FB.



I've seen a few, EW deletes them fast haha


----------



## gst98

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You conveniently left out all the other things they've worked on that you get for the $500.


Such as? The orchestrator that they made a deal to include? It's already been mentioned by someone but a lot of people aren't fussed and would rather not have to pay for it. 

We are gaining 5-10% of extra content for twice the price that HWO diamond is.


----------



## j0fer

Because who doesn't turn their head passing a car wreck - they should be glad I'm not in charge of the marketing. If they're aware of this and other forums...I'd have had to NOT post the video at 9am....wait until about 9:30am, say "just kidding!", wait another 5 minutes and then put it up.


----------



## davidm

As someone who owns HS and HB Gold, I would only consider the upgrade to HOOPUS if they made a way to "complete my collection" rather than buying HO Gold and paying again for two products I already own.


----------



## muziksculp

EgM said:


> 495 Pre-order pricing


Is that the Pre-Order price for owners of the Diamond version of their Hollywood Orchestra ? or for those who have non of their libraries ? So, no discount for owners of Diamond Edition Hollywood Orchestra ? 

The pricing scheme is quite unclear, and confusing.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

gst98 said:


> We are gaining 5-10% of extra content for twice the price that HWO diamond is.


That’s exactly what I’m thinking too. We’ll have to see some videos.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

muziksculp said:


> Is that the Pre-Order price for owners of the Diamond version of their Hollywood Orchestra ? or for those who have non of their libraries ? So, no discount for owners of Diamond Edition Hollywood Orchestra ?
> 
> The pricing scheme is quite unclear, and confusing.


It’s quite clear, just select from the options.


----------



## gst98

Jeremy Spencer said:


> That’s exactly what I’m thinking too. We’ll have to see some videos.


Am I also the only one who thought the trailer sounded weird? kinda like a low bitrate mp3? Sounded very lo-fi compared to the HWO that I'm used to.


----------



## EgM

muziksculp said:


> Is that the Pre-Order price for owners of the Diamond version of their Hollywood Orchestra ? or for those who have non of their libraries ? So, no discount for owners of Diamond Edition Hollywood Orchestra ?
> 
> The pricing scheme is quite unclear, and confusing.



495$ is the price to upgrade from EWHO Diamond to Opus Diamond, Pre-order price that is. I believe it's 995 once pre-order window closes, if ever

395$ EWHO Gold -> Opus Gold

795$ new purchase


----------



## Evans

EgM said:


> 495 is the price to upgrade from EWHO Diamond to Opus Diamond, Pre-order price that is. I believe it's 995 once pre-order window closes, if ever


They may have made a goof on the pricing on the web site, because the prices for _after_ the pre-order show the same for New Purchase and for Upgrade.

Unless, that is, there is absolutely no discount for an "upgrade" following the pre-order period.


----------



## muziksculp

EgM said:


> 495 is the price to upgrade from EWHO Diamond to Opus Diamond, Pre-order price that is. I believe it's 995 once pre-order window closes, if ever


Ok. Thanks.

That's quite a hefty upgrade price. It better be worth it. 

I also hope they post more videos, walkthroughs, details, and lots of demos before April 20th if they expect me to Pre-Order at the $495 Upgrade Price. Also I would like to know more about the amount of SSD space it requires, and if I can be installed on multiple SSDs.


----------



## FireGS

EgM said:


> 495$ is the price to upgrade from EWHO Diamond to Opus Diamond, Pre-order price that is. I believe it's 995 once pre-order window closes, if ever
> 
> 395$ EWHO Gold -> Opus Gold
> 
> 795$ new purchase


Sounds like it would be a better deal if you've never bought into EW before... really strange.


----------



## Johnny

Toecutter said:


> all the rage that would ensue... as long as they provide the popcorn, I'm in!
> 
> I only hope that the music in the trailer is not representative of the new sampled instruments... I'm not down with that at all


Me too!!! Pop corn or beer, or both!


----------



## Markrs

EgM said:


> 495$ is the price to upgrade from EWHO Diamond to Opus Diamond, Pre-order price that is. I believe it's 995 once pre-order window closes, if ever
> 
> 395$ EWHO Gold -> Opus Gold
> 
> 795$ new purchase


$595 for gold to diamond upgrade


----------



## Evans

Whoops, I broke it (note that I did not use Photoshop or the "Inspect Element" feature in Chrome to mess with it).


----------



## Eptesicus

What bizarre pricing.

$795 brand new, but $495 to upgrade from a library that already has the vast majority of the content....

It also doesnt make much sense as the website implies the full price for the upgrade after the pre-order discount is $995 (!)?

Seems pretty off base to me, and i certainly won't be upgrading at that price (was expecting more in the realms of $200-$300).

I mean, it doesnt really bother me as i never had my heart set on this upgrade anyway, but i can't help but feel that they have probably lost a lot of upgrade sales with that pricing.


----------



## EgM

muziksculp said:


> Ok. Thanks.
> 
> That's quite a hefty upgrade price. It better be worth it.
> 
> I also hope they post more videos, walkthroughs, details, and lots of demos before April 20th if they expect me to Pre-Order at the $495 Upgrade Price. Also I would like to know more about the amount of SSD space it requires, and if I can be installed on multiple SSDs.



I'd say around 840gb total for Opus diamond if you add the 130gb in new content. EWHO Diamond has 4 entries in download manager and it allows you to choose different folders, I would think it'll be the same for the new content


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> So what's the price of Hoopus if one owns the full EWH Diamond orch. ?


995, intro price 495


----------



## Frederick

Okay, if I would buy from them directly now - upgrading from HO Diamond and all the solo instruments: 495 USD + VAT would probably translate to 550-600 Euro. I screwed myself in this way when I bought Hollywood orchestra Diamond.

If AudioDeluxe would join the pre-order, then it'll be (495 USD -/- discount) divided by euro/usd exchange rate = approx. 400 Euro.

Conclusion so far: There's no way I'm going to buy from them directly.

If I'd wait for the 60% discount on the full product bought via AudioDeluxe it would be something like 330 Euro. That would be a truly excellent price for all they offer. I could live with 400 Euro too.


----------



## SupremeFist

What do people think of the solo instruments that will now be included? I used some solo vln, clt, fl, vc etc from EWQLSO back in the day for an indie short and thought they were pretty good for 2005 or so...


----------



## Evans

doctoremmet said:


> 995, intro price 495


I called this out on the prior page, but the thread is moving fast: this amount for after the pre-order period might be incorrect, because *both *the "New Purchase" and "Upgrade" prices show $995 for Diamond on the current web site.

So, it's either a goof, or they're not offering upgrade discounts after the pre-order period.


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> 995, intro price 495


That's quite an arm twisting way to purchase the upgrade to OPUS form EW-Diamond full orchestra.

I see no reason to buy anything from them, unless they prove to me it's worth it, via lots of videos, demos during the Pre-Order period which I guess ends on April 20th.


----------



## FireGS

Evans said:


> I called this out on the prior page, but the thread is moving fast: this amount might be incorrect, because *both *the "New Purchase" and "Upgrade" prices show $995 for Diamond on the current web site.
> 
> So, it's either a goof, or they're not offering upgrade discounts after the pre-order period.


If this is real, they really are screwing past customers. Offering ~75% of the same samples with no loyalty discount (on-going, past the intro period) is really insulting. But they can do what they want! I know what I won't be buying.


----------



## cqd

Frederick said:


> Okay, if I would buy from them directly now - upgrading from HO Diamond and all the solo instruments: 495 USD + VAT would probably translate to 550-600 Euro. I screwed myself in this way when I bought Hollywood orchestra Diamond.
> 
> If AudioDeluxe would join the pre-order, then it'll be (495 USD -/- discount) divided by euro/usd exchange rate = approx. 400 Euro.
> 
> Conclusion so far: There's no way I'm going to buy from them directly.
> 
> If I'd wait for the 60% discount on the full product bought via AudioDeluxe it would be something like 330 Euro. That would be a truly excellent price for all they offer. I could live with 400 Euro too.


I honestly can't see them continuing the constant sales of all things east west once this comes out..

You could always use a different address too.. Not that I'd condone tax avoidance or anything..


----------



## EgM

FireGS said:


> If this is real, they really are screwing past customers. Offering ~75% of the same samples with no loyalty discount (on-going, past the intro period) is really insulting. But they can do what they want! I know what I won't be buying.



Pretty sure that's a mistake


----------



## muziksculp

EgM said:


> Pretty sure that's a mistake


The upgrade price is a mistake ?


----------



## FireGS

EgM said:


> Pretty sure that's a mistake


Until its fixed, it isnt!


----------



## EgM

muziksculp said:


> The upgrade price is a mistake ?



The upgrade vs buying new price (995 - 995) after pre-order period


----------



## Evans

A) It's a goof.
B) It's real.
C) It's a psychological experiment.


----------



## Markrs

Evans said:


> They may have made a goof on the pricing on the web site, because the prices for _after_ the pre-order show the same for New Purchase and for Upgrade.
> 
> Unless, that is, there is absolutely no discount for an "upgrade" following the pre-order period.


I noticed that as well. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the case given previous upgrade price policy


----------



## TCMQL1

SupremeFist said:


> What do people think of the solo instruments that will now be included? I used some solo vln, clt, fl, vc etc from EWQLSO back in the day for an indie short and thought they were pretty good for 2005 or so...


The harp is quite nice, but I imagine anyone that has used the HW solo violin and cello is wishing they could forgo them entirely for $50 off the pricetag lol. In their original state they're not really usable IMO, but who knows, maybe through some new updated scripting wizardry they've managed to fix them for OPUS.


----------



## DarkShinryu

Evans said:


> A) It's a goof.
> B) It's real.
> C) It's a psychological experiment.


All three together.


----------



## cqd

TCMQL1 said:


> The harp is quite nice, but I imagine anyone that has used the HW solo violin and cello is wishing they could forgo them entirely for $50 off the pricetag lol. In their original state they're not really usable IMO, but who knows, maybe through some new updated scripting wizardry they've managed to fix them for OPUS.


I'm sure they'll be better..

I'm actually sickened I bought the harp a couple of months ago..


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Is their pricing structure all that surprising? Look at Spaces II for example - the upgrade cost more than a new license! If you owned one part of EWHO previously, you didn't get any discount on buying the full EWHO (I had to buy Brass and Strings twice!). EW's finance team seem like world class trolls. And yet they also forget how to turn off the 60% off sales.


----------



## AndyP

Here's what I'm wondering:

Do I just download the 130 GB of new content, or is it a full download because they reworked all the samples from HO Diamond?
So do I keep my old installation or do I reinstall everything?

Pre-order is something I wanted to get out of the habit of doing before I have enough information, walkthroughs.

If there are no videos, demos before the end of the pre-order time I would be out. Let's see what comes in the next 2 weeks.

Is the price inclusive or exclusive tax?


----------



## Fa

Anybody else thinks the soundtrack of the trailer is just terrible? 

Sound is quite conventional, but music is so sad... hopefully that is influencing my perception.

Anyway I'm interested more in the new player than HO... let's see.


----------



## SupremeFist

The pricing is... mysterious. Full price for a fresh license seems insanely good value to me (very much parking tanks on Spitfire's lawn), but the upgrade price is on the high side for owners of HoD like me. I guess I was hoping for 299 but expecting 399...

So, Opus or upgrade to BBC Pro? I'm certainly not doing the former sight unseen as a preorder though.


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder when they will be posting the specs, and other details, demos, videos, ..etc. ? 

I want to know about SSD space requirement for OPUS, if I can install it on multiple SSDs ? also want to evaluate it via videos, demos, ..etc. 

Hopefully soon during the Pre-order period.


----------



## szczaw

It is a 'fuck you !!!' upgrade after all. You get a discount only if you preorder.


----------



## FKVStudio

I just consulted it. For a new user, if you only buy Opus, you only get Opus. It does not bring the Hollywood Orchestra content but the Opus content. If you want the content of HWO and Opus you must buy both.

That being the case, it seems expensive to me.


----------



## aria250m

Noticing that the patches are still things like "3FL Leg Accent MAX", 6FR Sus MAX, etc. I was/am hoping that would change to become more consolidated/KS friendly.


----------



## Eptesicus

aria250m said:


> Noticing that the patches are still things like "3FL Leg Accent MAX", 6FR Sus MAX, etc. I was/am hoping that would change to become more consolidated/KS friendly.



Yeh I noticed this too. Seems like all the patches are still similar/the same.

I thought it would be reworked and more streamlined


----------



## AndyP

Fa said:


> Anybody else thinks the soundtrack of the trailer is just terrible?
> 
> Sound is quite conventional, but music is so sad... hopefully that is influencing my perception.
> 
> Anyway I'm interested more in the new player than HO... let's see.


Worse than the soundtrack is the video. It's so badly done that I'm starting to get scared.


----------



## Markrs

SupremeFist said:


> The pricing is... mysterious. Full price for a fresh license seems insanely good value to me (very much parking tanks on Spitfire's lawn), but the upgrade price is on the high side for owners of HoD like me. I guess I was hoping for 299 but expecting 399...
> 
> So, Opus or upgrade to BBC Pro? I'm certainly not doing the former sight unseen as a preorder though.


Love BBCSO Pro, for which you get lots of mics. With EW you get all the articulations and less mics. I probably prefer getting more articulations especially if they have made it easier to use. However I find composing with BBCSO much easier, and at the moment it is my go to when starting something. I also love the sound of both of them.


----------



## Markrs

FKVStudio said:


> I just consulted it. For a new user, if you only buy Opus, you only get Opus. It does not bring the Hollywood Orchestra content but the Opus content. If you want the content of HWO and Opus you must buy both.
> 
> That being the case, it seems expensive to me.


Wow really, that was not how I understood it would work. I assumed maybe wrongly with $795 Opus you would get Opus plus reworked HOD.


----------



## muziksculp

EgM said:


> I'd say around 840gb total for Opus diamond if you add the 130gb in new content. EWHO Diamond has 4 entries in download manager and it allows you to choose different folders, I would think it'll be the same for the new content


That makes sense, but I would still wait for the official word on these details. (Thanks). 

Hopefully they will be releasing more details soon.


----------



## Toecutter

FKVStudio said:


> I just consulted it. For a new user, if you only buy Opus, you only get Opus. It does not bring the Hollywood Orchestra content but the Opus content. If you want the content of HWO and Opus you must buy both.
> 
> That being the case, it seems expensive to me.


You mean just the few new recorded instruments? That does not make sense to me, I probably misunderstood you?


----------



## janila

I also made the mistake of upgrading to Diamond and asked the support about it. Implying that upgrading beforehand would be beneficial and then giving a $100 discount for paying $200 for the upgrade isn't a mistake.

I also asked about the OPUS player. For new users it will be free and support every EW library BUT the Hollywood Orchestra. They haven't lost their touch.

"Opus Software will be free with any purchase after release date

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER
OPUS software is only compatible with Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition (which now includes the Hollywood Solo Instruments); it is not compatible with the original Hollywood Orchestra, original Hollywood Solo Instruments, or the MIDI Guitar series. Users not upgrading to the Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition should continue to use PLAY 6. All other EastWest products are supported in the OPUS software."


----------



## Johnny

3DC said:


> I was just looking for this.
> From EW website:
> If you live outside of the United States, you are responsible for all import duties and taxes. These charges vary by country, so please contact your local customs office for details.


Once I bought HW Strings back on release day, and this is exactly what happened. It came to my door via UPS with a nice $180 custom fee : ) Not to mention I paid $1499.99 for the library back when EW needed solid gold toilette seats installed in their green room : )


----------



## robgb

Markrs said:


> $595 for gold to diamond upgrade


Jesus.


----------



## muziksculp

Another unknown is how efficient is the new OPUS engine compared to PLAY 6 ? 

Both in terms of CPU usage, and RAM load.


----------



## FireGS

FKVStudio said:


> I just consulted it. For a new user, if you only buy Opus, you only get Opus. It does not bring the Hollywood Orchestra content but the Opus content. If you want the content of HWO and Opus you must buy both.
> 
> That being the case, it seems expensive to me.


Yeah, this makes even less sense. Are they saying that OPUS material, by itself, is enough to be worth its price as its own standalone library? Is the HO content just extra mics? How does this work? Seems like OPUS only content is only a small fraction of the content needed for a whole orchestra.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

janila said:


> IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER
> OPUS software is only compatible with Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition (which now includes the Hollywood Solo Instruments); it is not compatible with the original Hollywood Orchestra, original Hollywood Solo Instruments, or the MIDI Guitar series. Users not upgrading to the Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition should continue to use PLAY 6. All other EastWest products are supported in the OPUS software."


WOW! Nice way to screw us over. Forcing HO owners to pay a ransom basically.


----------



## AndyP

janila said:


> I also made the mistake of upgrading to Diamond and asked the support about it. Implying that upgrading beforehand would be beneficial and then giving a $100 discount for paying $200 for the upgrade isn't a mistake.
> 
> I also asked about the OPUS player. For new users it will be free and support every EW library BUT the Hollywood Orchestra. They haven't lost their touch.
> 
> "Opus Software will be free with any purchase after release date
> 
> IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER
> OPUS software is only compatible with Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition (which now includes the Hollywood Solo Instruments); it is not compatible with the original Hollywood Orchestra, original Hollywood Solo Instruments, or the MIDI Guitar series. Users not upgrading to the Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition should continue to use PLAY 6. All other EastWest products are supported in the OPUS software."


Somehow I am increasingly confused. So there are 2 versions of the OPUS Player? One for Hollywood Orchestra Opus and one for the rest?
East West is going in a weird direction.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

muziksculp said:


> Another unknown is how efficient is the new OPUS engine compared to PLAY 6 ?
> 
> Both in terms of CPU usage, and RAM load.


All we know is they hired some very heavy hitters to develop the new engine. But TBD on the result.


----------



## Dewdman42

janila said:


> IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER
> OPUS software is only compatible with Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition (which now includes the Hollywood Solo Instruments); it is not compatible with the original Hollywood Orchestra, original Hollywood Solo Instruments, or the MIDI Guitar series. Users not upgrading to the Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition should continue to use PLAY 6. All other EastWest products are supported in the OPUS software."



That pretty much excludes me from having any interest in it. Will look forward to hearing demos and feedback from those of you that end up getting it.


----------



## janila

AndyP said:


> Somehow I am increasingly confused. So there are 2 versions of the OPUS Player? One for Hollywood Orchestra Opus and one for the rest?
> East West is going in a weird direction.


No, I suppose it's the same player replacing PLAY for everything. They just don't give it to the old users.


----------



## cqd

Well, like, EWHO and the solo instruments are legacy products now, are they not?..


----------



## FireGS

3DC said:


> Unfortunately only death and taxes are certain.
> But in Opus case I would pay 154 EUR tax if solo instruments are actually included in this pre-order price.


I hope you mean newly recorded ones...


----------



## AndyP

janila said:


> No, I suppose it's the same player replacing PLAY for everything. They just don't give it to the old users.


Somehow they hold their long and loyal customers less dear than new customers. I feel like I'm being taken advantage of. And they won't push me into subscribing, ever.


----------



## AndyP

In view of the fact that the solo library of AI is just around the corner, it's hard for me to get excited about the "great" offer.


----------



## FireGS

3DC said:


> At this point I am not sure what the hell they are selling at EW. Is Opus completely new library or is only an extension of previous Diamond version.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No patch list, no articulation list, essentially no information given to help potential buyers make an informed purchase. Just marketing hype.


----------



## Kabraxis

Reading all these, I'm really, really happy that I jumped into plus subscription with a discount instead buying any of these.


----------



## FireGS

FKVStudio said:


> I just consulted it. For a new user, if you only buy Opus, you only get Opus. It does not bring the Hollywood Orchestra content but the Opus content. If you want the content of HWO and Opus you must buy both.
> 
> That being the case, it seems expensive to me.








"Whats Included"

Reimagined original content for all sections and solo instruments
So....? Does it come with HO content as a new purchase, or doesn't it? "Original content" makes it sound like its content that's original to OPUS. But "reimagined"...?


----------



## doctoremmet

Oost West
Thuis best

It’s a Dutch saying. The gist of it: East West / nah, I’d much rather just stay at home with my other orchestral libraries. Which is what most Dutch people just love to do.


----------



## Evans

Okay, but seriously, wasn't it originally ~230 GB of new recordings and not 130?


----------



## doctoremmet

Evans said:


> Okay, but seriously, wasn't it originally ~230 GB of new recordings and not 130?


I absolutely remember that 230 number


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cqd said:


> Well, like, EWHO and the solo instruments are legacy products now, are they not?..


Sure, but it says “all other” EW products will run in Opus. There’s libraries a lot older than HO.


----------



## cqd

FireGS said:


> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> No patch list, no articulation list, essentially no information given to help potential buyers make an informed purchase. Just marketing hype.


Ah Jesus.. people have spent the last two months complaining about lack of hype..


----------



## FireGS

Evans said:


> Okay, but seriously, wasn't it originally ~230 GB of new recordings and not 130?









Yep, it was.


----------



## Zamenhof

Evans said:


> Okay, but seriously, wasn't it originally ~230 GB of new recordings and not 130?


Could it have been a misunderstanding? Perhaps the 230 GB include 100 GB worth of solo instruments?


----------



## Markrs

FireGS said:


> "Whats Included"
> 
> Reimagined original content for all sections and solo instruments
> So....? Does it come with HO content as a new purchase, or doesn't it? "Original content" makes it sound like its content that's original to OPUS. But "reimagined"...?


It will have all the same content but "reimagined" what you probably won't get is the original content placed in a legacy folder, which I think happens if you upgrade. I vaguely remember somewhere in the past this information was given, though I can remember by when or by who.


----------



## EgM

Yeah, I have to go get some popcorn now!


----------



## AndyP

Zamenhof said:


> Could it have been a misunderstanding? Perhaps the 230 GB include 100 GB worth of solo instruments?


Probably the removal of 100 GB of useless samples caused the delay.


----------



## Toecutter

A friend just sent this about the post pre-order upgrade price and Opus content:







Hopefully this answers some questions!


----------



## Eptesicus

Toecutter said:


> A friend just sent this about the post pre-order upgrade price and Opus content:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully this answers some questions!



Lmao, so after the pre order the upgrade price might be even more than $495?!


----------



## AndyP

Toecutter said:


> A friend just sent this about the post pre-order upgrade price and Opus content:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully this answers some questions!


Nope, this answer confuses me even more. I interpret it that I have to reload the entire HO diamond content and additionally manage it on my ssd. That would mean around 800 GB of additional storage space. Or am I interpreting this completely wrong again?


----------



## BasariStudios

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Lol how cheap are some people? < $500 for a huge amount of new recordings not to mention revamping all the existing content scripting in a new player that has tonal modification abilities now across FOUR sections of the orchestra plus a new orchestrator feature. But you'll gladly spend that much for another OT library of one section with less articulations...makes sense.


Not so cheap when you spend over 1200$ on HO Diamond and then 100$ less for upgrade than Gold. Not all of us are cheap. As of now i own close to 25-30k JUST Libraries. Yeah very cheap.


----------



## Toecutter

Eptesicus said:


> Lmao, so after the pre order the upgrade price might be even more than $495?!


It won't be $995 that's for sure XD so it was probably an oversight on their part to not remove the 995

If I understood correctly, Opus and HO are now treated as two distinct FULL orchestras. So it's not just the new samples for Opus if you buy a standalone Opus license lol that would be crazy. You get the complete orchestra. But if you have HO Diamond, in order to use the new Opus engine and content, you have to upgrade for $495 pre-order, or more after (price TBA but NOT 995)


----------



## Eptesicus

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Lol how cheap are some people? < $500 for a huge amount of new recordings not to mention revamping all the existing content scripting in a new player that has tonal modification abilities now across FOUR sections of the orchestra plus a new orchestrator feature. But you'll gladly spend that much for another OT library of one section with less articulations...makes sense.



I think its the disparity between the new and upgrade price when the library is still, at its core, Hollywood orchestra diamond.

You have to remember that not everyone got HOD in a sale over the last year or so. Many, many users spent an awful lot on the original.

The preorder price ($795) for the entire thing from new is actually very good.

People have also become accustomed to developers upgrading libraries with new players and recordings for free for their existing users. Now, charging a massive amount for an upgrade is East West prerogative, but they can't be surprised if they get a negative reaction.


----------



## Markrs

I believe previously they mentioned reworking all the existing material in Opus and adding new material. If you upgrade you still have all the old material which works in play


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

BasariStudios said:


> Not so cheap when you spend over 1200$ on HO Diamond and then 100$ less for upgrade than Gold. Not all of us are cheap. As of now i own close to 25-30k JUST Libraries. Yeah very cheap.





BasariStudios said:


> Keep holding, don't let it go.
> I let it go long ago with MSS.


You seem to have trouble letting go.


----------



## AndyP

Markrs said:


> I believe previously they mentioned reworking all the existing material in Opus and adding new material. If you upgrade you still have all the old material which works in play


But that sounds to me like a full download of the entire library.
If I want to keep the Play version, I need another 800 GB of free space.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Eptesicus said:


> I think its the disparity between the new and upgrade price when the library is still, at its core, Hollywood orchestra diamond.
> 
> You have to remember that not everyone got HOD in a sale over the last year or so. Many, many users spent an awful lot on the original.
> 
> The preorder price ($795) for the entire thing from new is actually very good.


That's fair - though those users that bought the original also got something for it. They didn't spend a lot of money and have no product to use. I bought HOD fairly cheap so the price of the upgrade plus what I originally spent isn't too much more than the brand new price - and for that delta, well I got to use HOD for a long time as well (and can continue to use it if I don't upgrade).


----------



## ShidoStrife

I paid $211 for HO Gold. No way I'm upgrading to Opus Gold for $395 lol

Also alienating the old HO users from the new engine? They lost me on that. I was ready to spend $50 for JUST the engine.

Maybe I'll sell my unredeemed HO Gold and buy something else. Or just use it as it is.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You seem to have trouble letting go.


Don’t worry, he’ll cave and end up buying it  Resistance is futile!

EDIT: @dzilizzi can relate!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Don’t worry, he’ll cave and end up buying it


Oh I know - it is always the ones who whine the loudest or claim they have principles who end up being first in line . Plus, don't you know? He's spent $30k in libraries alone! Music is about how much you buy! (I think he might've forgotten most people on this forum have non-music day jobs - that figure does not impress).


----------



## SupremeFist

Markrs said:


> Love BBCSO Pro, for which you get lots of mics. With EW you get all the articulations and less mics. I probably prefer getting more articulations especially if they have made it easier to use. However I find composing with BBCSO much easier, and at the moment it is my go to when starting something. I also love the sound of both of them.


Yeah I already know I will never use 90% of the extra mics in Pro, but I would like a close mic plus the string leaders. On the other hand, HoD is already much more deeply sampled than BBC. On the third hand, there is something lovely about BBC's famed cohesiveness (even as I currently experience it with Core)...


----------



## doctoremmet

SupremeFist said:


> On the third hand


Whoa, what happened!


----------



## BasariStudios

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You seem to have trouble letting go.


Try to make more sense when you respond to things.


----------



## José Herring

Probably going to get it during the preorder phase but boy I'm so confused. And, if HOOPUS sounds anything like the trailer video I'm sticking to the old version for some time. So, I'd like both options the older Play version and the HOOPUS version just in case HOOPUS isn't to my liking. 

I have multiple Play products, what's going to happen to SD2 and 3, EWHC, ect..? 

Perhaps getting a subscription for a month or more might be worth it just to sort the it all out.


----------



## BasariStudios

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Don’t worry, he’ll cave and end up buying it  Resistance is futile!


Maybe, you are not really wrong. As of now HOD serves me well.


----------



## SupremeFist

José Herring said:


> Probably going to get it during the preorder phase but boy I'm so confused. And, if HOOPUS sounds anything like the trailer video I'm sticking to the old version for some time. So, I'd like both options the older Play version and the HOOPUS version just in case HOOPUS isn't to my liking.
> 
> I have multiple Play products, what's going to happen to SD2 and 3, EWHC, ect..?
> 
> Perhaps getting a subscription for a month or more might be worth it just to sort the it all out.


I still have Kontakt versions of QLSO, SD1 and EWSC, so I'm looking forward to paying more than the cost of a new license to upgrade them to Opus.


----------



## BGvanRens

doctoremmet said:


> Oost West
> Thuis best
> 
> It’s a Dutch saying. The gist of it: East West / nah, I’d much rather just stay at home with my other orchestral libraries. Which is what most Dutch people just love to do.


Yep, I think I'll do exactly that!


----------



## Toecutter

AndyP said:


> But that sounds to me like a full download of the entire library.
> If I want to keep the Play version, I need another 800 GB of free space.


Yea that confused me a lot and I think the wording could have been better but my friend just confirmed that you do NOT have to download everything again:


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Who believes in the new date? (I already forgot it LOL)


----------



## FKVStudio

I only say what they have told me directly in the chat on the website.

When I buy Opus (as a new user, without anticipated libraries) I only receive Opus content. I am not getting the Hollywood Orchestra content plus the Opus content.

I asked twice to confirm that I understood.


----------



## Lazer42

FireGS said:


> Sounds like it would be a better deal if you've never bought into EW before... really strange.


I do wonder if from a marketing standpoint the goal here is to attract new users moreso than to give something new to current users. I don't mean to say that they're necessarily trying to intentionally dismiss or neglect current users - I wouldn't think that's a conscious intent. Rather, the way that official trailer video and a few other things have looked does seem like it's aimed at attracting new users.


----------



## Nimrod7

doctoremmet said:


> It’s a Dutch saying.


Well, we (Greeks) don't say much...


----------



## muziksculp

ALittleNightMusic said:


> All we know is they hired some very heavy hitters to develop the new engine. But TBD on the result.


And all I know is I don't have enough info. to convince me to Pre-Order this new OPUS Orchestra. (Yet).


----------



## Lazer42

3DC said:


> Let me get this right: They want 715$ for 130 GB of new content? Are you sure?


It seems like two different people might be getting two conflicting answers about this but I could be wrong.


----------



## Frederick

FKVStudio said:


> I only say what they have told me directly in the chat on the website.
> 
> When I buy Opus (as a new user, without anticipated libraries) I only receive Opus content. I am not getting the Hollywood Orchestra content plus the Opus content.
> 
> I asked twice to confirm that I understood.


It seems to me you'll get the 130 GB of new content PLUS the part of old content that is actually used by OPUS.


----------



## AndyP

So keep waiting for EW to provide more details. Until then:


----------



## KitNexu

Toecutter said:


> A friend just sent this about the post pre-order upgrade price and Opus content:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully this answers some questions!


Here is the question though, how will this work for ComposerCloud X and Plus users? Especially for those that got ComposerCloud before the Opus release.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

What I believe is the case:

New license - the full OPUS sample content which is made up of the new 130GB PLUS whatever they need from the existing HO content (since the new OPUS recordings don't cover everything)

Upgrade license - the full OPUS sample content that will install alongside your existing HO content. You don't have to re-download HO if you have it already, though you may need to download some of it that you didn't have before (like if Solo instruments are included).


----------



## muziksculp

Are we sure they mean April 20, 2021 ? or did they mean it will be out on April,2022


----------



## Johnny

FireGS said:


> Yep, it was.


100GB was converted to bitcoin and used to pay for the delays...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Well, at least I still have a CCX subscription (which I'll always have anyways, $15 a month). Looking forward to trying OPUS Gold...and go from there.


----------



## Markrs

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Well, at least I still have a CCX subscription (which I'll always have anyways, $15 a month). Looking forward to trying OPUS Gold...and go from there.


I have CCX as well so plan on trying it first even if that means losing out on the intro price. They might do like spitfire and bring the intro price back for a sale like "black Friday", even though they are normally in sale mode all the time.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

3DC said:


>


Well it could be ALL of existing HO content - not sure if some of the new content effectively replaces some of the old content, in which case, there wouldn't be much point in also providing that replaced old content.


----------



## EgM

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Well, at least I still have a CCX subscription (which I'll always have anyways, $15 a month). Looking forward to trying OPUS Gold...and go from there.



Honestly, I think that's the best solution. It has the two mics everyone needs and all the other content that comes handy when composing styles outside our usual palette.


----------



## MarcusD

My assumption (based off the videos etc..) is you get 130GB of NEW content + Opus engine. The original HW content has been revamped / reworked for playability (for Opus) and reorganised so there's less folders with hundreds of split patches.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

EgM said:


> Honestly, I think that's the best solution. It has the two mics everyone needs and all the other content that comes handy when composing styles outside our usual palette.


Plus I also own HO Diamond, so it's win-win.


----------



## cqd

FKVStudio said:


> I only say what they have told me directly in the chat on the website.
> 
> When I buy Opus (as a new user, without anticipated libraries) I only receive Opus content. I am not getting the Hollywood Orchestra content plus the Opus content.
> 
> I asked twice to confirm that I understood.


That's crazy in fairness..


----------



## Markrs

MarcusD said:


> My assumption (based off the videos etc..) is you get 130GB of NEW content + Opus engine. The original HW content has been revamped / reworked for playability (for Opus) and reorganised so there's less folders with hundreds of split patches.


That was how I had interpreted it. Those upgrading would also keep their existing HOD samples which work in the Play software, so you are supported when using old projects.


----------



## szczaw

Did somebody break into the EW HQ and steal 100 gbs of sample recordings ?


----------



## jamieboo

So, as someone with Hollywood Diamond (plus Solo Harp) already installed, how much extra space would the Opus upgrade require I wonder?


----------



## dzilizzi

ALittleNightMusic said:


> What I believe is the case:
> 
> New license - the full OPUS sample content which is made up of the new 130GB PLUS whatever they need from the existing HO content (since the new OPUS recordings don't cover everything)
> 
> Upgrade license - the full OPUS sample content that will install alongside your existing HO content. You don't have to re-download HO if you have it already, though you may need to download some of it that you didn't have before (like if Solo instruments are included).


what about the "reimagined" samples? It sounds like they fixed the woodwinds? Or tried to fix the woodwinds?

For me, I don't have the solos, so if it includes the solos and the harp, it might be a decent deal. If I wait a year or two, the most cheapest I will get it is maybe $100 to $150 less if I can get it at 60% off at a place like AudioDeluxe or JRRShop. At 50% off, I'm not saving much and it won't be worth waiting. (yes, I'm an accountant, I crunched the numbers  )

So $150 for a year or two extra of the orchestrator? Might be worth it. I need to see a walkthrough at minimum.


----------



## Nimrod7

cqd said:


> That's crazy in fairness..


I guess this is why it's called "Expansion":

_"Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition is the highly anticipated *expansion *to Hollywood Orchestra..."_

I own Diamond, but very few things make sense in the whole story. Fairly disappointed to be honest... :(


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Don't people think that the 130GB might be for the Gold version and the 230GB for the Diamond? You know, seeing as the latter will have the extra mics?


----------



## szczaw

StarfireBlack said:


> Don't people think that the 130GB might be for the Gold version and the 230GB for the Diamond? You know, seeing as the latter will have the extra mics?


Ha ! Could be.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, I'm kinda confused now too.. but I already bought it..so just wait and see I suppose..my big question is will I get the violin and cello..
Meh.. we'll see..


----------



## Lazer42

Markrs said:


> I have CCX as well so plan on trying it first even if that means losing out on the intro price. They might do like spitfire and bring the intro price back for a sale like "black Friday", even though they are normally in sale mode all the time.


I thought that there was no "gold version" of OPUS.


----------



## MarcusD

Markrs said:


> That was how I had interpreted it. Those upgrading would also keep their existing HOD samples which work in the Play software, so you are supported when using old projects.



The only thing that Is not clear , does the Opus content have three versions like HW silver, gold and diamond? Or is Opus content just Opus? As the video says "HW included" obviously there'll be some limitations depending on which HW you own.


----------



## jamieboo

StarfireBlack said:


> Don't people think that the 130GB might be for the Gold version and the 230GB for the Diamond? You know, seeing as the latter will have the extra mics?


Nah, they'd use their biggest 'flagship' numbers in their marketing blurb. That they're now saying 130GB after previously stating 'over 230GB of pristine new recordings' is... conspicuous.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

I bought HO Silver in 2019, then Diamond before OPUS was announced last year. Just after Christmas I signed up for the CC+ and will remain on that until I can afford the upgrade (likely once it is in sales and such) Gives me time to decide if there is anything else I want to get too...or I might just stay on CC+. As long as I am getting quality products for my money I am not too bothered. There is no way I can afford the big libraries from other manufacturers so for me the CC is brilliant, and I generally hate subscriptions.


----------



## robgb

Frankly, I wouldn't go anywhere near this until there's proof of value from people who have actually used it, hands on. I'll be very interested to see the walk through videos.


----------



## Markrs

Lazer42 said:


> I thought that there was no "gold version" of OPUS.


Yep, you can pre order a Gold version and there is definitely a version for a CCX


----------



## Lewis Emblack

jamieboo said:


> Nah, they'd use their biggest 'flagship' numbers in their marketing blurb. That they're now saying 130GB after previously stating 'over 230GB of pristine new recordings' is... conspicuous.


But they did say 130GB+ which suggests they are highlighting the lowest number, do you not think? 🤔


----------



## Markrs

MarcusD said:


> The only thing that Is not clear , does the Opus content have three versions like HW silver, gold and diamond? Or is Opus content just Opus? As the video says "HW included" obviously there'll be some limitations depending on which HW you own.


There is a Gold, Gold X (CCX subscription only) and Diamond version


----------



## jamieboo

StarfireBlack said:


> But they did say 130GB+ which suggests they are highlighting the lowest number, do you not think? 🤔


Yes, but the same was true previously: 'over 230GB...'


----------



## Lazer42

Markrs said:


> There is a Gold, Gold X (CCX subscription only) and Diamond version


I wonder when this changed. As recently as February I thought they were saying that you would not be able to use OPUS with the gold version of HO.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

jamieboo said:


> Yes, but the same was true previously: 'more than 230GB...'


But there was no mention of a Gold version at the time either


----------



## Tremendouz

I'm so disappointed right now. I just wanted keyswitching (I have zero interest in the solo instruments and the new recordings) so I thought I'd be able to pay a small amount to upgrade HOD to the OPUS engine.

But, it now seems like every other old product will get ported EXCEPT the one I was looking forward to use with a non-shitty engine.

They won't get a single cent from me. I'm not paying $500 for functionality that has been the standard for years


----------



## Markrs

Lazer42 said:


> I wonder when this changed. As recently as February I thought they were saying that you would not be able to use OPUS with the gold version of HO.


Not sure, though you can't use Opus with gold or diamond HO unless you upgrade even if you have Opus after buying another EW product that comes with Opus.


----------



## cundo92

Maybe the 230 GB are before compression?


----------



## Markrs

Tremendouz said:


> I'm so disappointed right now. I just wanted keyswitching (I have zero interest in the solo instruments and the new recordings) so I thought I'd be able to pay a small amount to upgrade HOD to the OPUS engine.
> 
> But, it now seems like every other old product will get portex EXCEPT the one I was looking forward to use with a non-shitty engine.
> 
> They won't get a single cent from me.


Well the message someone got that the old products, except HO, will get Opus but only if you buy them after the release date. If you own then before then, you don't get Opus and still have to use Play


----------



## Tremendouz

Markrs said:


> Well the message someone got that the old products, except HO, will get Opus but only if you buy them after the release date. If you own then before then, you don't get Opus and still have to use Play


That's even worse somehow


----------



## robgb

Tremendouz said:


> I'm so disappointed right now. I just wanted keyswitching


Play doesn't have keyswitching?


----------



## easyrider

Markrs said:


> Well the message someone got that the old products, except HO, will get Opus but only if you buy them after the release date. If you own then before then, you don't get Opus and still have to use Play


So HW Choirs will have an OPUS version...but if you already have it before the OPUS release you‘re stuck with play?


----------



## jamieboo

StarfireBlack said:


> But there was no mention of a Gold version at the time either


I guess you could be right.
It just seems strange that marketing would ever want to highlight lower figures. If they've got 230GB of new recordings, mention _that _rather than the truncated totals in the cutdown versions - even if softened with a, 'over' or '+'.
But, with EW's inscrutable marketing ways, who knows?


----------



## MauroPantin

The fact that there is this much confusion about how any of this works signals two things for me:

1- Communication is still sub-par

2- The classic "own this product" thing is an afterthought, and it is reflected on the pricing and upgrade tiers and what not, the focus is clearly on the cloud subscription.


----------



## Tremendouz

robgb said:


> Play doesn't have keyswitching?


Only for some pre-determined combinations of articulations with no option to add the articulations I actually need or remove the ones I don't need


----------



## Lazer42

robgb said:


> Play doesn't have keyswitching?


Many individual patches have keyswitches built in, but you cannot custom assign keyswitches or set up a series of different patches assigned to keyswitches.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

jamieboo said:


> I guess you could be right.
> It just seems strange that marketing would ever want to highlight lower figures. If they've got 230GB of new recordings, mention _that _rather than the truncated totals in the cutdown versions - even if softened with a, 'over' or '+'.
> But, with EW's inscrutable marketing ways, who knows?


I get where you are coming from, but if you advertise 230GB and Gold doesn't have that, they will get a lot of (extra) flack from that I'd imagine as that would be false advertising. The other way they could have done it is say "up to xGB" or do as they did with HO and specify "230GB (Diamond Edition)". They might do that yet, I think they have enough stuff to sort at the moment 😂


----------



## Tremendouz

Lazer42 said:


> Many individual patches have keyswitches built in, but you cannot custom assign keyswitches or set up a series of different patches assigned to keyswitches.


Not to mention there are only a handful of these KS patches, meaning some articulations aren't even accessible with keyswitches


----------



## robgb

Tremendouz said:


> Not to mention there are only a handful of these KS patches, meaning some articulations aren't even accessible with keyswitches


No wonder people hate Play.


----------



## robgb

Also, I'm thinking we need Daniel James to do a first look. The guy is brutally honest.


----------



## Tremendouz

robgb said:


> No wonder people hate Play.


Heh, that's only the icing on the cake. My bigger gripe is the lack of proper purge function which kontakt has

Edit: meaning ability to load new samples on demand without reloading all of them and then purging again


----------



## Markrs

easyrider said:


> So HW Choirs will have an OPUS version...but if you already have it before the OPUS release you‘re stuck with play?


That is what I understand based on the reply from EW someone posted on here earlier. Of course that could be completely wrong.


----------



## dzilizzi

jamieboo said:


> Nah, they'd use their biggest 'flagship' numbers in their marketing blurb. That they're now saying 130GB after previously stating 'over 230GB of pristine new recordings' is... conspicuous.


this might account for the delay if 100GBs of sound were not good. That's a big problem.


----------



## easyrider

Just asked this on chat:

Me- “Will other libs like choir have an opus engine?”

Support -“The other libraries will all load up in the Opus Engine as for will there be an 'Opus' update version specifically of those libraries, maybe in the future”

Me-“Can I download the opus engine to use my other libraries?”

Support - “Yes, once it's released Opus will be available to download and all libraries you have a license for will load up in that engine”


----------



## JonSolo

So here is how I understand it moving forward-

If you DON'T own HWO but purchase OPUS-
• You get new content (130gb) and revamped content (still original size) to make a complete orchestra, however none of the content will work in PLAY
• All of your other PLAY libraries will ALSO work in OPUS or PLAY

If you own HWO and upgrade to OPUS-
• You get new content (130gb) and revamped content (basically presets, but essentially added to your existing content) to make a complete orchestra in OPUS, and your old HWO content will work in OPUS or PLAY- no new content will work in PLAY
• All of your other PLAY libraries will ALSO work in OPUS or PLAY

If you own HWO and other PLAY libraries and do not upgrade to OPUS-
• All of your libraries will work in OPUS and PLAY except HWO, which will still work in PLAY

That isn't difficult to understand. I think if the woodwinds are fixed, the solo instruments are improved, the new presets are easier to use, and the orchestrator is all they claim it is, then the price is fine (but I wonder what it will be down the road a few months from now).


----------



## Dewdman42

My take is that they intend for all legacy libraries to work in OPUS with only some updates to non-sample config files in order to make that happen. However they don’t plan to ship those updated config files to HO customers unless they purchase OPUS upgrade, which will include those needed configuration changes to support the legacy HO samples, as well as 130gb of new samples and the new “orchestrator” engine (which is probably reaponsible for that shitty demo track everyone heard for the first time this morning).

They will allow all other non HO products to continue forward on opus player but HO users have to buy these new samples and orchestrator in order to use new opus player on their legacy samples.

I’m not touching it. Nothing smells right here. I bought HO quite a while ago and basically never use it because I was so turned off by the way it’s setup to use in play; which everyone has been complaining about for years. For years play has been substandard, though motivated users worked through it, figured it out and produced great music with it. I just never got to that I ended up buying vsl stuff instead. Now they FINALLY might have a better player but the only way we can use it is to pay $500 on sale for a bunch of other new content we may not even need or want. I’m out.

Plus we don’t even know if they actually improved the keyswitching in opus. It might be exactly the same samples with exactly the same scripting and just a new player that might be slightly better in some other usability ways. We really don’t have any details about that. 

I would definitely save your money and wait to see what exactly comes in opus. Don’t assume anything was improved that you think OUGHT to have been improved.

The lack of transparency while floating a $500 pre order offer is appalling to me.


----------



## szczaw

Preorder upgrade price is not enticing enough. I turned yearly CC off two months ago. On the 20th, I'll turn it back on.


----------



## Jose7822

OK, definitely not getting OPUS.

Well, it’s been fun. Thanks for all of the funny memes 🤣. I hope those of you who end up purchasing/upgrading to OPUS enjoy it. This is just not the product for me.

Peace!!


----------



## pmcrockett

The way they're handling the Opus launch sounds a lot like how they handled the Play 6 launch. At first, Play 6 only came with the new libraries that needed it but could run anything. And people who didn't have the new libraries could pay specifically to upgrade to 6. Then eventually the upgrade became free.

I imagine that Opus will also be free eventually. There's no way they're going to maintain two separate sample players long-term that run the same libraries. They'll want everyone on Opus once the early bugs are worked out, because it will simplify tech support and development.


----------



## chocobitz825

I came here to do two things. chew bubble gum and watch people speculate and fuss over an upcoming library release that is the greatest/worst new thing to ever be.

ever.
forever.
period....

and I’m all out of bubble gum, so....


----------



## Fa

JonSolo said:


> That isn't difficult to understand. I think if the woodwinds are fixed, the solo instruments are improved, ...


Actually I don't think the solo instruments can be improved at all by OPUS, according the status and news we got:

- strings solos are a no-go, if you own any other decent solo strings from others. And they were not improved, just "added" to OPUS. Harp probably is good, but I've never used it so I can't talk about.

- woodwinds and brass solos were very well sounding, but unusable as solos due to phasing and badly programmed crossfading: in an orchestral melting pot they can work, but in a solo the crossfading is so irritating... if you own any other library you finally will never use them as solos. My understanding from Doug and Nick speech is they bypassed the issue creating ensemble woodwinds only and bigger brass sections. Fine for epic and wide symphonic, useless for lyrical intimate and solos again...

From descriptions and actual samples, I'm expecting some pretty good large symphonic sound, kinda big-HO, and that's it... let's hope the player improve scripting stability and usability of all other existing (and exclusive) libraries... I dream of better working and better compatible word builder for instance.


----------



## cqd

@Fa, is this based on particular information?
Are they not being reprogrammed from scratch?..


----------



## Fa

cqd said:


> @Fa, is this based on particular information?
> Are they not being reprogrammed from scratch?..


Can't remember any specific statement about solos being reprogrammed. Details were about legatos and ensemble brass/woodwinds. But...
If they get rid of the mandatory crossfade, and make dynamic layers not overlapping for solos, then woodwinds and brass will immediately improve usability, and that's an easy win, so let's hope about it.

For the strings my very humble opinion is they were not ok, disregarding the script. So very hard to improve and/or be competitive with real good solo strings libraries of actual time by several producers.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

So we have one trailer with a piece music with the samples hidden/embedded in a full orchestration (which might be from some amazing programmer who spent many days and revisions with mixing and programming... just a possibility, don't know anything - but I at least work a LOT on my sample library demos and would highly discourage everyone to buy something *just* based on a demo by me or anyone else)

Marketing text with Nick describing the greatness of the samples without any audio examples and a few info crumbs about the new player.

Should be enough to pay hundreds of dollar, eh? :D :D


----------



## cqd

I'm nearly sure I saw that the woodwinds were being reprogrammed..

Maybe I just imagined it..

(But, yeah, as you say, easy wins.. the tone of the woodwinds is definitely there like..)


----------



## Johnny

Markrs said:


> Well the message someone got that the old products, except HO, will get Opus but only if you buy them after the release date. If you own then before then, you don't get Opus and still have to use Play


That's actually hilarious! So, if you re-buy what you already own after release? You get the new GUI?! Hahaha, these guys are hilarious  Hence why it's not their full-time day job- it's cash grab and nothing more. At least 8Dio charged something stupid low like $10 for a GUI update to their legacy products if you already owned it. (Thx Troels  )


----------



## Nimrod7

Johnny said:


> That's actually hilarious! So, if you re-buy what you already own after release? You get the new GUI?!


Unfortunately it's not a unique case.
Waves demands to WUP to update the GUI,
Sonnox demanded $49 (if I remember correctly) per product for Intel support (from PPC), ages back.

and the list goes on...

Some developers are generous enough rewarding their customers by continuously updating and providing value in their products (e.g. u-he), and those are the ones worth for our support.
On their side, they gain customers trust, keep their portfolio of products fresh, which brings more sales.


----------



## Trash Panda




----------



## Johnny

cqd said:


> I'm nearly sure I saw that the woodwinds were being reprogrammed..
> 
> Maybe I just imagined it..
> 
> (But, yeah, as you say, easy wins.. the tone of the woodwinds is definitely there like..)


I'm not entirely sure either... From Mr. TSF Hell himself, it's additional ensemble woodwind legatos... I am guessing that it is added to preexisting content only, mainly to try and sort out the hot mess they delivered from T.J and himself walking off the HWOwoodwinds product release, moments before their legal dispute back in the day when Doug was suing TSFH... Hence why The Dougy shipped first with their names off the box, (then post kiss and make up) later with their names printed back on the " HW orchestral woodwinds" box ;p (Rumors only folks- all from VI Control so who knows) They could all be cuddling on a beach somewhere enjoying our Composer Cloud Subscriptions and $500 upgrade sales


----------



## BasariStudios

Johnny said:


> That's actually hilarious! So, if you re-buy what you already own after release? You get the new GUI?! Hahaha, these guys are hilarious  Hence why it's not their full-time day job- it's cash grab and nothing more. At least 8Dio charged something stupid low like $10 for a GUI update to their legacy products if you already owned it. (Thx Troels


There is 2 types of Thieves. The usual ones that you don't know about and the ones who will usually laugh at your face while robbing you. And...there is the ones who let them rob.


----------



## Johnny

Nimrod7 said:


> Suddenly it's not a unique case.
> Waves demands to WUP to update the GUI,
> Sonnox demanded $49 (if I remember correctly) per product for Intel support (from PPC), ages back.
> 
> and the list goes on...
> 
> Some developers are generous enough rewarding their customers by continuously updating and providing value in their products (e.g. u-he), and those are the ones worth for our support.
> On their side, they gain customers trust, keep their portfolio of products fresh, which brings more sales.


Exactly! Cinesamples? Project Sam to name drop two : ) New GUIs and newly recorded bonus content- free! Because they actually love us and want a sustainable career!


----------



## NoamL

aka70 said:


>



Not a good first impression, sorry.



ALittleNightMusic said:


> Lol how cheap are some people? < $500 for a huge amount of new recordings not to mention revamping all the existing content scripting in a new player that has tonal modification abilities now across FOUR sections of the orchestra plus a new orchestrator feature. But you'll gladly spend that much for another OT library of one section with less articulations...makes sense.



Good question, I already have several orchestra libraries; therefore a new library has to sound better than what I use or be agile enough to do tasks my current most-used libraries struggle with. I don't hear either of those here.

Even if it sounded amazing, I question how many working composers are going to take a gamble around putting high-RAM instruments in an unproven sampler into their VEP hosts.

For people who use HWO as their main orchestra, this product might be worth it. otherwise I see this really struggling to move copies. It doesn't have next gen features like SINE, it's not recorded at an A list scoring stage, the sound does not blow me away (YMMV). The #1 and #2 selling points of this library are that it extends HWO and it was recorded with a much lauded score engineer.

Plenty of stuff from EW is still competitive, their perc is nice, Spaces II is great, CC is a great value for new / hobbyist composers. This is a big pass for me right now though. Let's see what walkthroughs they release...


----------



## Johnny

easyrider said:


> Just asked this on chat:
> 
> Me- “Will other libs like choir have an opus engine?”
> 
> Support -“The other libraries will all load up in the Opus Engine as for will there be an 'Opus' update version specifically of those libraries, maybe in the future”
> 
> Me-“Can I download the opus engine to use my other libraries?”
> 
> Support - “Yes, once it's released Opus will be available to download and all libraries you have a license for will load up in that engine”


But at what cost I am wondering...


----------



## dzilizzi

Johnny said:


> That's actually hilarious! So, if you re-buy what you already own after release? You get the new GUI?! Hahaha, these guys are hilarious  Hence why it's not their full-time day job- it's cash grab and nothing more. At least 8Dio charged something stupid low like $10 for a GUI update to their legacy products if you already owned it. (Thx Troels  )


They did this with Play 6 - New libraries got you Play 6 and all the old libraries suddenly worked with it. Or you paid $50 for Play 6. Then a couple months later, it was free. I'm sure that will happen eventually.


----------



## BasariStudios

Johnny said:


> Exactly! Cinesamples? Project Sam to name drop two : ) New GUIs and newly recorded bonus content- free! Because they actually love us and want a sustainable career!


Mr QuantumLeap said it him self. This is not something they care about.


----------



## jon wayne

I'm sorry, I just can't get as excited as the musicians (or actors) in the video that are faking it!!


----------



## EgM

dzilizzi said:


> They did this with Play 6 - New libraries got you Play 6 and all the old libraries suddenly worked with it. Or you paid $50 for Play 6. Then a couple months later, it was free. I'm sure that will happen eventually.



Yeah, and I remember throwing a tantrum at it too lol


----------



## chocobitz825

*eats popcorn*

yes, keep it coming. these predictable conversations sustain me...


All we need now are the ones who live and die by the east west libraries as being the best sounding libraries, far superior to anything else out there. Solid workhorses worth the investment into the new engine, because nothing has come out yet that can beat the east west sound. 

then just a bit more outrage over pricing, lack of audio examples and explanation before release, and then post release sharing of articulation sample audio to help people on the fence understand if they really want the new library or not....then top it all off with criticism of eastwest for not being more precise and for not giving better examples of the full range of the library for people who are trying to decide if GAS needs to be satisfied now, or wait for black friday sales...

i am in VI-Control heaven


----------



## gst98

NoamL said:


> Not a good first impression, sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> Good question, I already have several orchestra libraries; therefore a new library has to sound better than what I use or be agile enough to do tasks my current most-used libraries struggle with. I don't hear either of those here.
> 
> Even if it sounded amazing, I question how many working composers are going to take a gamble around putting high-RAM instruments in an unproven sampler into their VEP hosts.
> 
> For people who use HWO as their main orchestra, this product might be worth it. otherwise I see this really struggling to move copies. It doesn't have next gen features like SINE, it's not recorded at an A list scoring stage, the sound does not blow me away (YMMV). The #1 and #2 selling points of this library are that it extends HWO and it was recorded with a much lauded score engineer.
> 
> Plenty of stuff from EW is still competitive, their perc is nice, Spaces II is great, CC is a great value for new / hobbyist composers. This is a big pass for me right now though. Let's see what walkthroughs they release...


The thing is though, they are incentivized to inflate the list price because that the higher they set it, the more attractive their subscription becomes.

I agree it's very strange that we haven't been given more info and the price only makes you ask more questions...


----------



## CDNmusic

I hate to say it but this is embarrassing...and I'm not talking about EW and their announcement. We finally have a date, demos are coming, it will be released, reviews will follow....we will all have enough information to make an informed and educated decision.....till then we are free to speculate, but *some *of the assumptions and allegations here are just crossing a line IMO.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

chocobitz825 said:


> *eats popcorn*
> 
> yes, keep it coming. these predictable conversations sustain me...
> 
> 
> All we need now are the ones who live and die by the east west libraries as being the best sounding libraries, far superior to anything else out there. Solid workhorses worth the investment into the new engine, because nothing has come out yet that can beat the east west sound.
> 
> then just a bit more outrage over pricing, lack of audio examples and explanation before release, and then post release sharing of articulation sample audio to help people on the fence understand if they really want the new library or not....then top it all off with criticism of eastwest for not being more precise and for not giving better examples of the full range of the library for people who are trying to decide if GAS needs to be satisfied now, or wait for black friday sales...
> 
> i am in VI-Control heaven


Maybe you’re inadvertently describing yourself? 🤔


----------



## chocobitz825

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Maybe you’re inadvertently describing yourself? 🤔


At one point, probably. Not this time. I just cancelled my east west cloud subscription last week. Nothing they could do would make up for the overall unejoyable experience I have working with their libraries. I have sufficient alternatives, and there seems to be no point in hoping they will be anything more than what they have been for the last decade. Good sounds, maybe, but piss poor execution for my tastes.


----------



## MarcelM

495 to upgrade from HWO diamond? thx, no! upgrade prices have always been bad for EW products and i didnt expect much. what can i say? wont buy it for sure.


----------



## dzilizzi

gst98 said:


> The thing is though, they are incentivized to inflate the list price because that the higher they set it, the more attractive their subscription becomes.
> 
> I agree it's very strange that we haven't been given more info and the price only makes you ask more questions...


Also the more reasonable it is at 60% off. Because you know it will be 60% in a year or so.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

NoamL said:


> Not a good first impression, sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> Good question, I already have several orchestra libraries; therefore a new library has to sound better than what I use or be agile enough to do tasks my current most-used libraries struggle with. I don't hear either of those here.
> 
> Even if it sounded amazing, I question how many working composers are going to take a gamble around putting high-RAM instruments in an unproven sampler into their VEP hosts.
> 
> For people who use HWO as their main orchestra, this product might be worth it. otherwise I see this really struggling to move copies. It doesn't have next gen features like SINE, it's not recorded at an A list scoring stage, the sound does not blow me away (YMMV). The #1 and #2 selling points of this library are that it extends HWO and it was recorded with a much lauded score engineer.
> 
> Plenty of stuff from EW is still competitive, their perc is nice, Spaces II is great, CC is a great value for new / hobbyist composers. This is a big pass for me right now though. Let's see what walkthroughs they release...


(I wouldn't assume SINE's "next gen features" (like what - mic merging which is broken for months?) is moving that many copies either.)

But yes, it is going to come down to, as it should, sound and workflow - both of which are still relatively big unknowns (though with sound, it is an expansion on a known quantity - that many people do still hold in high regard).


----------



## robgb

jon wayne said:


> I'm sorry, I just can't get as excited as the musicians (or actors) in the video that are faking it!!


It's funny, because I thought they were a bit over the top, too, and wondered if they were actual musicians or actors.


----------



## muziksculp

Their first teaser was better than this one. 

Actually, I don't even know why they bothered with a second teaser that's worse than the first one.


----------



## Evans

muziksculp said:


> Their first teaser was better than this one.
> 
> Actually, I don't even know why they bothered with a second teaser that's worse than the first one.


A short teaser when we've already had a longer teaser is a bit odd. Perhaps we'll get some videos or multiple audio demos tomorrow.


----------



## NoamL

gst98 said:


> The thing is though, they are incentivized to inflate the list price because that the higher they set it, the more attractive their subscription becomes.


hmm that is a fair point isn't it! They want us to be subscribers. I'm reluctant to go down that path as long as other developers keep releasing "you buy it, you own it" libraries at great prices.

It's funny people make fun of VI-C as a pointless drama forum, when in fact I would bet hard money that a large portion of EastWest's revenue comes from people who are on their mailing lists and who have never heard of VI-C. The very first samples I ever bought - a "get 7 libraries of your choice on 1 external drive shipped to you" deal from EastWest - I thought it was the deal of the century. At the time, not only did I not know about VIC, _I did not even know Kontakt existed._ Probably true of more EastWest customers than anyone here would guess.... at least VI-C levels the playing field by creating a "Watering hole" where smaller developers get attention from people visiting to check on what larger developers are doing...



ALittleNightMusic said:


> (I wouldn't assume SINE's "next gen features" (like what - mic merging which is broken for months?) is moving that many copies either.)


ahh... I don't use SINE libraries so didn't know that was an issue! thanks. Still, it's a very exciting feature once they get it right, especially for people with mobile rigs.


ALittleNightMusic said:


> it is an expansion on a known quantity - that many people do still hold in high regard).


my biggest problem with the sound is the room does not feel deep enough. There are some video mockups on youtube by a gentleman called Andrew Barraclough. He has excellent musicality, but even with the Diamond edition of the orchestra, I'm missing some ambience or depth-capture in the sound. That's hard to add with verb unfortunately. That being said, Hollywood Strings Diamond has this problem the least and I think that's a library that has really stood the test of time, two thumbs up..


----------



## EgM

I still just want to be able to use keyswitches....

Hmm, just me? 

EWHO is stellar as is! Give me Play with keyswitches and to me it's the best library on the internet right now!


----------



## cqd

EgM said:


> EWHO is stellar as is! Give me Play with keyswitches and to me it's the best library on the internet right now!


Yeah, this is true too.. like it pisses all over all the spitfire stuff I reckon.. and for the price it just can't be beat..

Play isn't sexy enough.. that's half the problem..and in this day and age people don't have the attention span to learn to use it..although what Noam says is true too.. it does generally need reverb..


----------



## Quantum Leap

I’m glad a date has been announced. Yeah, being called a liar and EW thieves is kind of insulting. Some people seem to miss that stuff somehow. That dude called me a liar, so that was my response to his stupid comments about me running EW. I’m not calling everyone stupid. I appreciate all the supporters or fair-minded people here, or I wouldn’t come here at all. FYI, as far as the thieves comment, EW paid a team for 5 years to develop this software. and once again I have no involvement in EW’s business, pricing, marketing etc.. 

I guess what really hurts is I’ve always had this driving force within me to make the best stuff for other composers. I think I’m in it more for the glory than anything and it’s also the feeling of producing something cutting edge that I use myself.


----------



## Lazer42

Quantum Leap said:


> I’m glad a date has been announced. Yeah, being called a liar and EW thieves is kind of insulting. Some people seem to miss that stuff somehow. That dude called me a liar, so that was my response to his stupid comments about me running EW. I’m not calling everyone stupid. I appreciate all the supporters or fair-minded people here, or I wouldn’t come here at all. FYI, as far as the thieves comment, EW paid a team for 5 years to develop this software. and once again I have no involvement in EW’s business, pricing, marketing etc..
> 
> I guess what really hurts is I’ve always had this driving force within me to make the best stuff for other composers. I think I’m in it more for the glory than anything and it’s also the feeling of producing something cutting edge that I use myself.


As someone who actually worked on these recordings, do you have any insight as to why it was originally listed as 230GB and this announcement says 130? Did the content change or is something else at play?


----------



## Quantum Leap

By the way, I just saw the video for the first time. I think the EW videos are aimed at a broad audience and not so much seasoned composers. Still, I liked it on my iPad.


----------



## Quantum Leap

130 versus 230? I don’t know. It was recorded at 88.2. Maybe that’s the mistake. I will take a look.


----------



## Quantum Leap

It’s 130. Here is my guess. Doug asked the editors how big it is and they said 230, because they edit at 88,2 for future releases.


----------



## cqd

Hey QL, are the solo instruments included can you tell us?..


----------



## Quantum Leap

Solo instruments, violin, cello, harp, are part of opus, yes. But there aren’t any new ones right now.


----------



## EgM

cqd said:


> Yeah, this is true too.. like it pisses all over all the spitfire stuff I reckon.. and for the price it just can't be beat..
> 
> Play isn't sexy enough.. that's half the problem..and in this day and age people don't have the attention span to learn to use it..although what Noam says is true too.. it does generally need reverb..



Hell yea man! All the songs I've used EWHO, the only thing I ever wished was the ability to use it as I use Vienna Instruments Pro. So many freaking great patches! I want control!!!


----------



## bvaughn0402

Quantum Leap said:


> I’m glad a date has been announced. Yeah, being called a liar and EW thieves is kind of insulting. Some people seem to miss that stuff somehow. That dude called me a liar, so that was my response to his stupid comments about me running EW. I’m not calling everyone stupid. I appreciate all the supporters or fair-minded people here, or I wouldn’t come here at all. FYI, as far as the thieves comment, EW paid a team for 5 years to develop this software. and once again I have no involvement in EW’s business, pricing, marketing etc..
> 
> I guess what really hurts is I’ve always had this driving force within me to make the best stuff for other composers. I think I’m in it more for the glory than anything and it’s also the feeling of producing something cutting edge that I use myself.


Well, like all the other developers, I'm incredibly happy you are here. In our world of instant social media, please don't forget that for ever 1 negative person, there are 100's of silent people who appreciate you. The one negative voice can feel/sound like 1,000's.


----------



## Robert_G

$995 regular price or $795 intro price? I wonder if EW knows it isn't 2012 anymore? 130 GB of new recordings and the rest of it updated for that price is asking a lot.


----------



## EgM

Quantum Leap said:


> I’m glad a date has been announced. Yeah, being called a liar and EW thieves is kind of insulting. Some people seem to miss that stuff somehow. That dude called me a liar, so that was my response to his stupid comments about me running EW. I’m not calling everyone stupid. I appreciate all the supporters or fair-minded people here, or I wouldn’t come here at all. FYI, as far as the thieves comment, EW paid a team for 5 years to develop this software. and once again I have no involvement in EW’s business, pricing, marketing etc..
> 
> I guess what really hurts is I’ve always had this driving force within me to make the best stuff for other composers. I think I’m in it more for the glory than anything and it’s also the feeling of producing something cutting edge that I use myself.



Thanks Nick for your response, much appreciated 

Any way to relay to the rest of EastWest team that they really need to have better customer relations? I've had my popcorn but I'm not sure we should go through this, again? haha


----------



## AB3

I don't get it. They can speak about the difficulties of what they are working on, and the high goals they are trying to achieve, and more people will understand the lack of communication. For instance, if the new "play" will work with everything i purchased earlier, and work better, that would be great news! I have Ra, Gypsy, The Platinum Strings, etc.


Quantum Leap said:


> I’m glad a date has been announced. Yeah, being called a liar and EW thieves is kind of insulting. Some people seem to miss that stuff somehow. That dude called me a liar, so that was my response to his stupid comments about me running EW. I’m not calling everyone stupid. I appreciate all the supporters or fair-minded people here, or I wouldn’t come here at all. FYI, as far as the thieves comment, EW paid a team for 5 years to develop this software. and once again I have no involvement in EW’s business, pricing, marketing etc..
> 
> I guess what really hurts is I’ve always had this driving force within me to make the best stuff for other composers. I think I’m in it more for the glory than anything and it’s also the feeling of producing something cutting edge that I use myself.


Nick - keep in touch. I am glad you wrote. This should be a safe place for manufacturers to post. But please tell your marketing people to start posting here. It would be a win-win. Thank you for the courage of posting.


----------



## AB3

Also, Nick - do you know if the OPUS will improve anything for prior products - like the prior "play?" Thank you in advance.


----------



## BasariStudios

Quantum Leap said:


> and once again I have no involvement in EW’s business, pricing, marketing etc..


YOU are one of the reasons i am who i am and do what i do today.
If that is the case then why take the Heat for that?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

BasariStudios said:


> YOU are one of the reasons i am who i am and do what i do today.
> If that is the case then why take the Heat for that?


So you’re buying Opus? 🤠


----------



## BasariStudios

Jeremy Spencer said:


> So you’re buying Opus? 🤠


No man. Since New Year even i don't know how many Libraries and things i bought, plus like 15 Eurorack Modules. After 10 years i fixed a Template with HS D and now HO D and they work fine. I would've bought it if Choirs was included, nothing else except the Player interests me but 500$ just for that its a lot. I might get the Choirs at some point instead of Opus. Still spending time with MSS. Last probably 4 months i overwhelmed my self with over 30-40 new sound sources.


----------



## Quantum Leap

the plan is for all EW and QL libraries to work in the new engine player. They redid all the interfaces. I was there last week checking reverb levels on all the other libraries, because the settings were off. I don’t know what the timeline is. I didn’t ask that.


----------



## DarinD

Thought the demo was fine, but I really want to hear some exposed strings with multiple articulations (hope this will include both bowed and fingered legato). Looking forward to some detailed walkthroughs, and also other demos much like they have on their site for the original HO.


----------



## Dewdman42

Quantum Leap said:


> EW paid a team for 5 years to develop this software. and once again I have no involvement in EW’s business, pricing, marketing etc..



Sure they did. They have been collecting subscription fees too. That's part of doing business. At the end of the day they have to provide $500 worth of value for me to consider the upgrade at that price. I don't see that value right now.



Quantum Leap said:


> Solo instruments, violin, cello, harp, are part of opus, yes. But there aren’t any new ones right now.



I already own all the solo instruments...so that detracts the value of Opus even more. what would I be getting for $500 exactly?


----------



## Lazer42

I'm a bit curious as to why they added the new recordings that they did in particular. For example, why the new violin section? Did they judge that there was something wrong with the original in HS?


----------



## AB3

Quantum Leap said:


> the plan is for all EW and QL libraries to work in the new engine player. They redid all the interfaces. I was there last week checking reverb levels on all the other libraries, because the settings were off. I don’t know what the timeline is. I didn’t ask that.


So is it fair to say that you are not paid to post here? If so, it is kind of you to jump in on this thread. But someone should be paid to represent the manufacturer here. Are they just too swamped? Is it because of Covid?


----------



## EgM

Lazer42 said:


> I'm a bit curious as to why they added the new recordings that they did in particular. For example, why the new violin section? Did they judge that there was something wrong with the original in HS?



If there's anything wrong with EWHO Orchestra it's certainly not the violin sections, they're the BEST! Curious why they would waste time on it.


----------



## szczaw

Dewdman42 said:


> I already own all the solo instruments...so that detracts the value of Opus even more. what would I be getting for $500 exactly?


130 gbs of new samples and an arpeggiator with presumably nice presets ? For $500 I don't find that particularly alluring either. I already own something like %90 of the sample content Opus is equipped with.


----------



## BenG

EgM said:


> If there's anything wrong with EWHO Orchestra it's certainly not the violin sections, they're the BEST! Curious why they would waste time on it.


If there are any minor gripes, I could say that the samples are a tad dry and processed. They sound great, take reverb well, sit perfectly in a mix but really just lack that tiny bit of life/depth. This is the eventual reason why I switched over to CSS (...well that and the lighter load on my DAW


----------



## BenG

szczaw said:


> 130 gbs of new samples and an arpeggiator with presumably nice presets ? For $500 I don't find that particularly alluring either. I already own something like %90 of the sample content Opus is equipped with.


Honestly, if it is repackaged/formatted in a way that is easier on my PC I would seriously consider the upgrade even though I own most of the HS already.


----------



## Dewdman42

szczaw said:


> 130 gbs of new samples



what exactly are the new samples. He mentioned the solo instruments, which I already own. what else?



szczaw said:


> and an arpeggiator



don't need it, don't care.



szczaw said:


> with presumably nice presets ?



how so? They are going to have some convincing to convince me that I need to spend $500 on this. Keep in mind, I spent approximately $340 for EWHO Diamond. I didn't get it when it first came out, I got it on one of their incredible sales that made all the original buyer's wince.

Some day if it costs $99 to upgrade what I have to Opus I would consider it, otherwise they have a lot of marketing and convincing to get me to hand over $500 now for something we don't even know yet what that is. I certainly would not spend $500 just to have a nicer player with hypothetically better scripting, which we don't even know for sure if that is the case or if so, how much better, etc.. The reviews will come in...we'll see...but even if they radically improved the scripting, and cleaned up all their sample and preset problems...providing essentially the same Hollywood room sound as before..but just cleaned up with better scripting and easier to use...I could pay $99 for that...not $500.

To get my $500, they are a VERY LONG ways away from selling me on it...

The main draw for EWHO was the room it was recorded in and the engineering that went into capturing that classic Hollywood sound. Fair enough. We have that already! What is new for $500?


----------



## szczaw

BenG said:


> Honestly, if it is repackaged/formatted in a way that is easier on my PC I would seriously consider the upgrade even though I own most of the HS already.


I have no problem with the way HO works.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Quantum Leap said:


> Solo instruments, violin, cello, harp, are part of opus, yes. But there aren’t any new ones right now.


Well that certainly changes the value calculation! I don't own any of the solo instruments so if I get that for the standard upgrade price, that would be quite nice.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

AB3 said:


> So is it fair to say that you are not paid to post here? If so, it is kind of you to jump in on this thread. But someone should be paid to represent the manufacturer here. Are they just too swamped? Is it because of Covid?


Or it could be that Vi-Control is not that important in the grand scheme of the music industry...


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

EgM said:


> If there's anything wrong with EWHO Orchestra it's certainly not the violin sections, they're the BEST! Curious why they would waste time on it.


I believe in the original video, Nick said they used totally different players and ended up getting a different feel for the new section. I imagine they can live side by side with each other.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Dewdman42 said:


> what exactly are the new samples. He mentioned the solo instruments, which I already own. what else?
> 
> 
> 
> don't need it, don't care.
> 
> 
> 
> how so? They are going to have some convincing to convince me that I need to spend $500 on this. Keep in mind, I spent approximately $340 for EWHO Diamond. I didn't get it when it first came out, I got it on one of their incredible sales that made all the original buyer's wince.
> 
> Some day if it costs $99 to upgrade what I have to Opus I would consider it, otherwise they have a lot of marketing and convincing to get me to hand over $500 now for something we don't even know yet what that is. I certainly would not spend $500 just to have a nicer player with hypothetically better scripting, which we don't even know for sure if that is the case or if so, how much better, etc.. The reviews will come in...we'll see...but even if they radically improved the scripting, and cleaned up all their sample and preset problems...providing essentially the same Hollywood room sound as before..but just cleaned up with better scripting and easier to use...I could pay $99 for that...not $500.
> 
> To get my $500, they are a VERY LONG ways away from selling me on it...
> 
> The main draw for EWHO was the room it was recorded in and the engineering that went into capturing that classic Hollywood sound. Fair enough. We have that already! What is new for $500?


I think if you don't care about the orchestrator, the new recorded sections and instruments, and the re-scripted / remixed patches and samples from the original HO, and the new more flexible sample player it is clear you are not the customer EW have in mind for the upgrade to Opus. As simple as that.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

FYI "The Upgrades will be an additional $100 each after the Pre-Order discount is no longer available" (which would be $400 less than a new license after the pre-order period)


----------



## Soundbed

cqd said:


> Play isn't sexy enough.. that's half the problem..and in this day and age people don't have the attention span to learn to use it.


Play doesn’t always function for me. SINE, Spitfire, Kontakt, HALion, Falcon, you name it they work, but Play has issues. Maybe it’s user error?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Soundbed said:


> Play doesn’t always function for me. SINE, Spitfire, Kontakt, HALion, Falcon, you name it they work, but Play has issues. Maybe it’s user error?


What type of issues? It's the only player I've never had a problem with...like ever.


----------



## AB3

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Or it could be that Vi-Control is not that important in the grand scheme of the music industry...


I have seen other marketers be pro-active on boards that are less attended than this one. Their reputation and sales are affected here. They need to think that way. And by the way, this does not explain their lack of communication on their facebook page.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

I broke the pre-order. LOL $129 for a new purchase including the hard drive!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

AB3 said:


> Their reputation and sales are affected here. They need to think that way.


Lol ok. And if the sales they get from Vi-C / Vi-C members makes up 1% of their total revenue? Then what? They had an "official rep" here for years - clearly they don't feel it is worth it to their business.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Dewdman42 said:


> To get my $500, they are a VERY LONG ways away from selling me on it...


I see where you're coming from, especially for those who already own the entire collection (HOD plus the solo instruments). For myself to upgrade, I'd need to shell out in Canadian dollars, so I'm looking at $630 plus another SSD since you need 944GB; I'm guessing a 2TB to be safe. So all in, around $950!! Luckily I already have CCX, so Gold will suffice for testing purposes. For $950, there's a lot of other libraries on my radar.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Justin L. Franks said:


> I broke the pre-order. LOL $129 for a new purchase including the hard drive!


Shit mine went the other way...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Shit mine went the other way...


I think that's what I paid for the the Complete Composer Collection in 2006!


----------



## AB3

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Lol ok. And if the sales they get from Vi-C / Vi-C members makes up 1% of their total revenue? Then what? They had an "official rep" here for years - clearly they don't feel it is worth it to their business.


But that does not explain their lack of communication on their own facebook page. I think it is something else. But I do not want to argue about it. It is just my opinion. That does not mean I am correct! Maybe you are correct! Cheers!


----------



## Flyo

Way far deserved. 

Having Full Orchestra Diamond... 

Pay for 5 years in the making software development for their outdated ecosystem?

< Waiting all this time to put 500u$d for 130gb of audio content, in 44khz with 5 mics?>

We gave them months from their delated announcement without any feed. 
months for those audio releases and scripting fixes... 

now... all of us have 2 weeks for decide it?

... without a decent walkthrough from the start.

No deal.


----------



## szczaw

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I see where you're coming from, especially for those who already own the entire collection (HOD plus the solo instruments). For myself to upgrade, I'd need to shell out in Canadian dollars, so I'm looking at $630 plus another SSD since you need 944GB;


I think it's the same sample pool as HO.


----------



## Soundbed

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Shit mine went the other way...


In 6 months it will be 50% off: a bargain at only $2.5M


----------



## szczaw

I just noticed, Orchestrator, arpegiator / note editor with presets is $299.


----------



## jneebz

What.
A. 
Cluster. 
F—k.

That is all. 
Carry on.


----------



## Lazer42

Soundbed said:


> Play doesn’t always function for me. SINE, Spitfire, Kontakt, HALion, Falcon, you name it they work, but Play has issues. Maybe it’s user error?





Jeremy Spencer said:


> What type of issues? It's the only player I've never had a problem with...like ever.


Agreed. I've never had any problems with Play. It's been really quite stable and worked very well - it's just missing features.


----------



## hdsmile

I've been using HO Diamond for a long time and I don’t want to buy an update for that amount either, they just went crazy!!!:(


----------



## Tremendouz

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I think if you don't care about the orchestrator, the new recorded sections and instruments, and the re-scripted / remixed patches and samples from the original HO, and the new more flexible sample player it is clear you are not the customer EW have in mind for the upgrade to Opus. As simple as that.


Not the person you replied to but I'll bite: what if I *only* want the new player since the current one lacks features found in other players that are crucial to me? Is it reasonable that the only options are "nothing" or "pay $500" if the only things I want are a better purge function to save RAM, plus the ability to access all articulations included via keyswitching (which I can do with every other library I own)?

I feel like there should be more options but perhaps they thought offering a simple port of the old HOD would cannibalize the sales of the more expensive OPUS edition.


----------



## artomatic

Just saved $795.
Thank you.


----------



## JGRaynaud

Seems nobody noticed there is a demo on the website. I'll just put a screen capture so people can find it.. It's kinda hidden if you don't pay attention to it.


----------



## Ryan Fultz

Quantum Leap said:


> the plan is for all EW and QL libraries to work in the new engine player. They redid all the interfaces. I was there last week checking reverb levels on all the other libraries, because the settings were off. I don’t know what the timeline is. I didn’t ask that.


Looks like upgrading my old EWQLSO to platinum on a whim because of the sale is going to pay off!


----------



## José Herring

JGRaynaud said:


> Seems nobody noticed there is a demo on the website. I'll just put a screen capture so people can find it.. It's kinda hidden if you don't pay attention to it.


Thanks. The strings sound fanstastic! I'm going through track by track and solo each part.


----------



## TCMQL1

JGRaynaud said:


> Seems nobody noticed there is a demo on the website. I'll just put a screen capture so people can find it.. It's kinda hidden if you don't pay attention to it.


Gotta say, being able to solo every section of a demo like this is really nice.


----------



## Kabraxis

JGRaynaud said:


> Seems nobody noticed there is a demo on the website. I'll just put a screen capture so people can find it.. It's kinda hidden if you don't pay attention to it.


What the hell... These EW people sometimes got the best ideas with no presentation.


----------



## José Herring

TCMQL1 said:


> Gotta say, being able to solo every section of a demo like this is really nice.


Yeah, you can really get down in there and hear everything. Sounds fantastic. Even at $500 for the upgrade EWHO for me is still the biggest bang for your buck in this field.


----------



## Frederick

I've preordered. It was about 510 Euro including VAT. I've looked at the orchestrator on their page and I decided that this update is going to be worth it. I didn't feel like waiting any longer to save one or two hundred. I also wanted to be positive with so much negativity going around.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Tremendouz said:


> Not the person you replied to but I'll bite: what if I *only* want the new player since the current one lacks features found in other players that are crucial to me? Is it reasonable that the only options are "nothing" or "pay $500" if the only things I want are a better purge function to save RAM, plus the ability to access all articulations included via keyswitching (which I can do with every other library I own)?
> 
> I feel like there should be more options but perhaps they thought offering a simple port of the old HOD would cannibalize the sales of the more expensive OPUS edition.


I don't disagree with you, but unfortunately for you, EW is taking a different approach (perhaps as you alluded out of desire not to cannibalize sales of OPUS). Or perhaps there is functionality specifics from Play that weren't ported over that legacy EWHO relies on but OPUS has rendered unnecessary due to the revised scripting.



JGRaynaud said:


> Seems nobody noticed there is a demo on the website. I'll just put a screen capture so people can find it.. It's kinda hidden if you don't pay attention to it.


I totally missed this! What a great demo player / presentation.


----------



## Piotrek K.

I'd say that full price is not that bad, because HWO is extremely deep orchestra, with tons of layers, RRs etc. Plus opus contains solos, new strings section etc. It could work at 50% off (coming this Black Friday!) ;D Upgrade is typical EW and imo overpriced (paying twice for same content is always shitty).

But I cared only for the new player (in general I find Play solid, but limited, and without proper purge it is just to heavy on RAM). And from what I understand owners of Hollywood Orchestra (or parts of it) are actually the only ones who will not get it? This is so fun :D

Anyway, waiting for reviews and... first sale


----------



## Tremendouz

JGRaynaud said:


> Seems nobody noticed there is a demo on the website. I'll just put a screen capture so people can find it.. It's kinda hidden if you don't pay attention to it.


That's a really neat presentation idea for a demo. And a great piece of music too, Benny Oschmann could probably make Roland Sound Canvas sound like a live recording


----------



## Trax

Tremendouz said:


> That's a really neat presentation idea for a demo. And a great piece of music too, Benny Oschmann could probably make Roland Sound Canvas sound like a live recording


Yeah it's pretty neat. The sliders and nobs work.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

With its release date set at less than two weeks from the announcement, it is clear that HOOPUS is done right now.

What EW really should do is have a 14-day or 30-day demo available right now. Limit it to existing HO (D/G) and Composer Cloud customers if they must. Then people can actually try it and see if it is worth the upgrade cost. They use iLok, so this is something they can easily do.

Then, if you order it during or directly after your demo period, you get the preorder pricing.

"Sight-unseen" preorders are never a good thing, especially when there is only a trailer and one demo track, with no walkthrough or demo videos. There isn't even a patch list, so we can't even see how everything is organized.


----------



## yellow_lupine

Wow... it seems custom keyswitches will remain an impossible dream even with the new OPUS engine.
Looking at this screenshot (left column) taken from the trailer video it seems articulations are still in separate MIDI channels


----------



## Lazer42

yellow_lupine said:


> Wow... it seems custom keyswitches will remain an impossible dream even with the new OPUS engine.
> Looking at this screenshot (left column) taken from the trailer video it seems articulations are still in separate MIDI channels


Maybe, but I wouldn't assume that. This screenshot appears to be from the Hollywood Orchestrator, which has its own functionality apart from just using the player itself. I'd be careful about jumping to any conclusions until we see how it really works - from what little has been revealed, it appears that the overall product is fairly deep with a lot of different tabs and screens and places to control things. It may well be that we wind up disappointed about things like keyswitches, but I think it's honestly impossible to tell either way until we see actual details on how it all works.

I do think that they're shot themselves in the foot a bit by not revealing more about what this product actually offers. I understand they are saying they will be doing that over the next two weeks, but if they'd done more of that already it would prevent a lot of inaccurate assumptions.


----------



## MauroPantin

I seem to remember there is (or was) an entire tab dedicated to keyswitching in the previous 10 min NAMM video


----------



## Nimrod7

yellow_lupine said:


> Wow... it seems custom keyswitches will remain an impossible dream even with the new OPUS engine.
> Looking at this screenshot (left column) taken from the trailer video it seems articulations are still in separate MIDI channels


That's the orchestrator.
Seems to have a seperate tab under Play for Articulations...


----------



## Nimrod7

Here it is actually from their first video @ 8.24:


----------



## Markrs

The Opus software really does look much improved over the Play software. Great thing about have CCX or even the 1 month subscription is you can have a proper play with it. 

Even though the price might go up post release I think it will go back down again at certain times of the year. It is only the upgrade cost that concerns me as previously EW have been very poor on upgrade pricing


----------



## KallumS

$495 to upgrade from HO Diamond.






Way too expensive for me.


----------



## gst98

NoamL said:


> hmm that is a fair point isn't it! They want us to be subscribers. I'm reluctant to go down that path as long as other developers keep releasing "you buy it, you own it" libraries at great prices.
> 
> It's funny people make fun of VI-C as a pointless drama forum, when in fact I would bet hard money that a large portion of EastWest's revenue comes from people who are on their mailing lists and who have never heard of VI-C. The very first samples I ever bought - a "get 7 libraries of your choice on 1 external drive shipped to you" deal from EastWest - I thought it was the deal of the century. At the time, not only did I not know about VIC, _I did not even know Kontakt existed._ Probably true of more EastWest customers than anyone here would guess.... at least VI-C levels the playing field by creating a "Watering hole" where smaller developers get attention from people visiting to check on what larger developers are doing...
> 
> 
> ahh... I don't use SINE libraries so didn't know that was an issue! thanks. Still, it's a very exciting feature once they get it right, especially for people with mobile rigs.
> 
> my biggest problem with the sound is the room does not feel deep enough. There are some video mockups on youtube by a gentleman called Andrew Barraclough. He has excellent musicality, but even with the Diamond edition of the orchestra, I'm missing some ambience or depth-capture in the sound. That's hard to add with verb unfortunately. That being said, Hollywood Strings Diamond has this problem the least and I think that's a library that has really stood the test of time, two thumbs up..


When they first teased OPUS they said some figure of how many copies of HWO they have sold (I assume it included subs) and it was eye-watering. Can't remember the number but it made me realize that EW probably dwarfs spitfire. I think the sales from VI-C are probably a rounding error for them which is why they aren't campaigning here. 

If you search for videos on HWO, there are hundreds of them available by people who don't even speak English or even share the same alphabet as us. It's easy to forget that whole other parts of the world exist and you only have to look at the film industry to see that the Chinese market will generate more revenue than the U.S.

Btw I've seen Andrew say somewhere that he doesn't do anything to make them sound in a room because he likes the sound of the drier recording in episode IV. So it's probably not the best comparison because most people are going to put in reverb.


----------



## gst98

I have to say, the new demo on the website does sound waaaayyy better than the promo video. The woodwinds sound amazing, and the new trumpets. + whatever the 'ensemble' means (is this orchestrator patches?) sounds incredible.

Unfortunately, I then checked and there is another 100 bucks in tax, and I just don't think an upgrade should be $600.


----------



## fourier

Somebody should really chart the collective mood swings of this thread for posterity.


----------



## Simon Ravn

I think this looks very intriguing! And I still use and love a lot of the "old" EW orchestra.

I have a hard time figuring out the upgrade path though. I have some of the old libraries in gold form, some in diamond, I believe. So what should I choose to upgrade from? Here I really like Spitfire+VSL's system that automatically figures out your upgrade price.


----------



## Petrucci

If the upgrade from Diamond was 300ish $ I would probably jump on it, 495$ is little too much for buying an unknown tool with no reviews, walkthroughs etc.


----------



## Piotrek K.

This is aprox last month traffic for biggest (random) sample devs. Spitfire is in league of their own. VSL is growing. OT is surprisingly high and EW is the worst one in the major league. But it doesn't count resellers. And super low prices can be huge selling point for EW in other shops (especially comparing to VSL for example).

This is fun fact, but based on that I'd say we will see Opus 50% off sooner than later. Competition is just to fierce these days. Good that sample libraries is just EW's hobby


----------



## Geomir

gst98 said:


> I have to say, the new demo on the website does sound waaaayyy better than the promo video. The woodwinds sound amazing, and the new trumpets. + whatever the 'ensemble' means (is this orchestrator patches?) sounds incredible.
> 
> Unfortunately, I then checked and there is another 100 bucks in tax, and I just don't think an upgrade should be $600.


I noticed the exact same thing! Woodwinds sound really nice. Very smart move from EW, because it has always been the week point of EWHO. Most of their demos (the few ones that exist) are full of beautifully sounding woodwinds.

But even for an EWHO Gold owner like me, the upgrade path is still very expensive. Especially this extra $100 in tax is a punch in the face.


----------



## Geomir

Petrucci said:


> If the upgrade from Diamond was 300ish $ I would probably jump on it, 495$ is little too much for buying an unknown tool with no reviews, walkthroughs etc.


Very well said. I think they should publish more footage (basic walkthroughs, detailed features, more demos, etc) before this pre-order period expires.


----------



## chocobitz825

fourier said:


> Somebody should really chart the collective mood swings of this thread for posterity.


I’m sure somebody could score to this thread, and automate the expression to match the mood swings


----------



## gst98

Piotrek K. said:


> This is aprox last month traffic for biggest (random) sample devs. Spitfire is in league of their own. VSL is growing. OT is surprisingly high and EW is the worst one in the major league. But it doesn't count resellers. And super low prices can be huge selling point for EW in other shops (especially comparing to VSL for example).
> 
> This is fun fact, but based on that I'd say we will see Opus 50% sooner than later. Competition is just to fierce these days. Good that sample libraries is just EW's hobby


Comparing EW to the rest of them seems almost pointless. Their main gig is a subscription plan, in which you own _everything_, so what incentive is there to visit their website? It's a completely different business model and would be very hard to compare. This looks more like a chart of how many users do you have that buy your products, and then go back to look at more stuff.

As you say it doesn't include resellers, nor say anything about sub plans or the time in which a product has been on sale, the value of products, the quarterly income, etc... You can even now purchase products from inside the SINE player.


----------



## jamieboo

Oh, this frustrates me a little...
"Includes Hollywood Orchestrator ($299 value)"
I do not want the orchestrator, and it's value is $299!
If I could optionally remove that component it would get the price of the upgrade down to something feasible for me!


----------



## easyrider

Johnny said:


> Exactly! Cinesamples? Project Sam to name drop two : ) New GUIs and newly recorded bonus content- free! Because they actually love us and want a sustainable career!


Cinesamples have new guis?


----------



## Piotrek K.

gst98 said:


> Comparing EW to the rest of them seems almost pointless. Their main gig is a subscription plan, in which you own _everything_, so what incentive is there to visit their website? It's a completely different business model and would be very hard to compare. This looks more like a chart of how many users do you have that buy your products, and then go back to look at more stuff.


Fully agree, that's why I pointed it's "a fun fact" that tells more about brand interest than actual sales numbers. Maybe for spitfire its more corelated with sales, because you can only buy on their site, but that's it. Opus will sell a few subscriptions, I'm sure of that. But full priced opus with such a competition? Not sure. Hence my belief that 50% off will happen pretty fast.

One detail though - with subscription plan you own nothing


----------



## RightOnTime

What I wanted, as someone who only owns Strings and Brass Diamond: 

Keyswitching between articulations
Cleaned-up, simplified patches
Purge and less resource usage
Perhaps updated scripting etc
Free or small update fee
Nicer trombones would be cool?

What you apparently end up paying for:

New first violins because...reasons?
Orchestrator thingy I probably won't ever use
New woodwind ensembles
New trumpet ensemble
New trombone ensemble (no solo though)
Solo instruments you couldn't pay me to use
New mic mixes (but we didn't bother rendering them into pre-baked samples so let's hope you have a supercomputer)
MAYBE some unspecified changes to patches and keyswitching
£360+ for the upgrade, plus £300 for me to get Woodwinds and Percussion first

Damnit EW, I love HWS and HWB but they're a pain in the arse to use - would have been lovely to get a free/cheap update making them more usable. Companies like Cinesamples and 8dio manage to give their customers nice free upgrades. 

I don't love HWO enough to spend £600+ on a huge bundle of things I don't need, that's for sure. No excuse whatsoever not to update the individual libraries with the new engine, scripting etc.


----------



## mcalis

RightOnTime said:


> Keyswitching between articulations


See ~8:20


----------



## szczaw

@EW: Consider adding upgrade from HO and solo instruments. Nobody wants to pay for the same content twice and in some cases multiple times.


----------



## BenG

szczaw said:


> I have no problem with the way HO works.


I think it is fair to say that PLAY is not the most efficient player. It requires a huge amount of computer resources, has very long wait times, has no 'batch resave' or purge functionality, etc. All of which are what eventually made me stray from using the HS series. Granted I do not use Vienna Ensemble that would negate some of this...

I briefly made custom patches that combined HS and CSS which were great but simply to much of a nightmare in the end for performance, exporting, et al.


----------



## szczaw

BenG said:


> I think it is fair to say that PLAY is not the most efficient player. It requires a huge amount of computer resources, has very long wait times, has no 'batch resave' or purge functionality, etc.


It's not the worst offender. I find Spitfire player to be far more of a resource hog.


----------



## Eptesicus

Piotrek K. said:


> I'd say that full price is not that bad, because HWO is extremely deep orchestra, with tons of layers, RRs etc. Plus opus contains solos, new strings section etc. It could work at 50% off (coming this Black Friday!) ;D Upgrade is typical EW and imo overpriced (paying twice for same content is always shitty).
> 
> But I cared only for the new player (in general I find Play solid, but limited, and without proper purge it is just to heavy on RAM). And from what I understand owners of Hollywood Orchestra (or parts of it) are actually the only ones who will not get it? This is so fun :D
> 
> Anyway, waiting for reviews and... first sale



Yeh, the pre order price for new users at $795 is really very good.

In comparison, the $495 upgrade price from diamond is a bit of a joke. It just isn't proportional in any way shape or form.

I think EW need to realise that not everyone picked the diamond edition up in one of the latest sales. I think it would also serve them well to research the current market where many prominent sample developers are updating their player/gui and are even offering new recordings completely free for existing users. I in no way expected this upgrade to be free as there are a few new recordings, but $495 is a bit silly.

For those that spent a decent amount on their diamond collection that upgrade price just feels like you are almost buying it twice and i fully appreciate why long time existing users feel rather annoyed.


----------



## jamieboo

JGRaynaud said:


> Seems nobody noticed there is a demo on the website. I'll just put a screen capture so people can find it.. It's kinda hidden if you don't pay attention to it.


A good demo (it has a fun Bruce Broughton vibe), and nice to be able to play with the mix and spotlight specifics.
While scrutinising the sound I noticed a bit I wanted to hear more clearly as I wasn't sure it sounded great - the little downward string arpeggios at 0.52 - 0.54 - and I noticed that they were not there when soloing strings. I eventually found them in the 'Ensemble' section.
What exactly is this do you think?
I hear brass here too. With brass I could imagine brass solos on the Brass fader, and the brass sections on the Ensemble fader, but a string section is obviously not a solo so what's the distinction between strings on the Strings fader and strings on the Ensemble fader?
Am I missing something very obvious here?

Thanks


----------



## markwind

Unfortunately, as HO diamond owner, I too am a little dissapointed with this. I have no interest in the orchestrator or the solo libraries. Which to me, makes that price point far too high. If nothing changes, I may well skip OPUS. Which I thought I'd never say - I was so looking forward to this.


----------



## Evans

Putting value of the product aside, that is one badass way to present a demo.


----------



## AndyP

Since I neither need nor want the solo violin, the cello and the harp, my desire to buy for the price is very limited.
The orchestrator sounds interesting at first, but without further details, that is not enough of an incentive to buy. Woodwinds, new first violins ... all very nice, but not enough for the price.
If there are no convincing details and walkthroughs, I'll wait until another 60% sale comes along and live with what I have. Sonically, not so much changes if one already has HO Diamond. And I have become accustomed to the workflow in Play.
The Opus Player would be enough for me ... but it is only available with OPUS which I find unfortunate. 
OPUS is more want to have than need in my case.


----------



## BenG

szczaw said:


> It's not the worst offender. I find Spitfire player to be far more of a resource hog.


Well, I wouldn't know but will certainly take your word for it! I'm assuming that is a partial deterrent for you in your workflow...?

In any event, it's not a dealbreaker for me but CSS is just slightly better in terms of sound. HS is no longer my workhorse but I still use it all the time to thicken up lines and give a cleaner legato sound.


----------



## cqd

@andy..I don't know about the violin and cello, but I bought the harp a while ago and it's actually my favourite harp..


----------



## Lazer42

Evans said:


> Putting value of the product aside, that is one badass way to present a demo.


Agreed. By far one of the things that most annoys me about the way demos are done is how they so often put the instruments being demoed into a mix. I just want to hear the instrument I am considering buying all on its own. I really like how this demo works.

That said, I wonder if it might not also reveal a bit about why this sort of thing isn't normally done, since to be honest I am not that impressed with the sound of the soloed instruments. Together as a mix it sounds great, but individually some of the instruments - especially the strings - sound fairly questionable to me.


----------



## AndyP

cqd said:


> @andy..I don't know about the violin and cello, but I bought the harp a while ago and it's actually my favourite harp..


I use Cineharp and am completely satisfied with it. Since I do not use harp so often, they are enough for me.


----------



## Flyo

Atrocious. 500 + Tax?
Really for 130gb orchestra ensamble content?
Any walkthrough. 
Months of waiting.

Disloyal


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Flyo said:


> Atrocious. 500 + Tax?
> Really for 130gb orchestra ensamble content?
> Any walkthrough.
> Months of waiting.
> 
> Disloyal


And don't forget the extra 1TB SSD required (if you need more space), plus exchange rate if you're not in the US.


----------



## cqd

Jeremy Spencer said:


> And don't forget the extra 1TB SSD required (if you need more space), plus exchange rate if you're not in the US.


You have to buy a computer too really..


----------



## gst98

BenG said:


> I think it is fair to say that PLAY is not the most efficient player. It requires a huge amount of computer resources, has very long wait times, has no 'batch resave' or purge functionality, etc. All of which are what eventually made me stray from using the HS series. Granted I do not use Vienna Ensemble that would negate some of this...
> 
> I briefly made custom patches that combined HS and CSS which were great but simply to much of a nightmare in the end for performance, exporting, et al.


This kind of thing gets said all the time but the truth is we have no idea how efficient Play is. Other than some of the older libraries there is no way to compare because you can't get HWO in Kontakt.

People say it has long load times. Have you looked at how much data you are loading? The biggest violin patch is 10gb per mic! obviously, that is going to load slower than other a 500mb SF legato. And as you would expect, it takes more resources to play these samples back. Batch resave is a Kontakt thing, no dedicated player needs it, they work completely differently. 

All the resources it uses are because it is still the only chromatically sampled library (AFAIK). And it has loads of dynamics layers, that SF and OT are only just starting to do 10 years later. I find finger positions pointless, but that all adds to the sample pool.

To my knowledge, their compression is not as good as NI's, and OT's ARCSine is taking things forward further still. 

The only valid criticism is purging. But hopefully, this means that a more sophisticated purge system is coming.


----------



## dzilizzi

RightOnTime said:


> What I wanted, as someone who only owns Strings and Brass Diamond:
> 
> Keyswitching between articulations
> Cleaned-up, simplified patches
> Purge and less resource usage
> Perhaps updated scripting etc
> Free or small update fee
> Nicer trombones would be cool?
> 
> What you apparently end up paying for:
> 
> New first violins because...reasons?
> Orchestrator thingy I probably won't ever use
> New woodwind ensembles
> New trumpet ensemble
> New trombone ensemble (no solo though)
> Solo instruments you couldn't pay me to use
> New mic mixes (but we didn't bother rendering them into pre-baked samples so let's hope you have a supercomputer)
> MAYBE some unspecified changes to patches and keyswitching
> £360+ for the upgrade, plus £300 for me to get Woodwinds and Percussion first
> 
> Damnit EW, I love HWS and HWB but they're a pain in the arse to use - would have been lovely to get a free/cheap update making them more usable. Companies like Cinesamples and 8dio manage to give their customers nice free upgrades.
> 
> I don't love HWO enough to spend £600+ on a huge bundle of things I don't need, that's for sure. No excuse whatsoever not to update the individual libraries with the new engine, scripting etc.


If you aren't getting the upgrade price, it probably is worth waiting for at least a 50% off sale.


----------



## Soundbed

gst98 said:


> This kind of thing gets said all the time but the truth is we have no idea how efficient Play is. Other than some of the older libraries there is no way to compare because you can't get HWO in Kontakt.
> 
> People say it has long load times. Have you looked at how much data you are loading? The biggest violin patch is 10gb per mic! obviously, that is going to load slower than other a 500mb SF legato. And as you would expect, it takes more resources to play these samples back. Batch resave is a Kontakt thing, no dedicated player needs it, they work completely differently.
> 
> All the resources it uses are because it is still the only chromatically sampled library (AFAIK). And it has loads of dynamics layers, that SF and OT are only just starting to do 10 years later. I find finger positions pointless, but that all adds to the sample pool.
> 
> To my knowledge, their compression is not as good as NI's, and OT's ARCSine is taking things forward further still.
> 
> The only valid criticism is purging. But hopefully, this means that a more sophisticated purge system is coming.


Purge in Opus would be useful.


----------



## MarcusD

chocobitz825 said:


> I’m sure somebody could score to this thread, and automate the expression to match the mood swings



You could make an entire YouTube channel based on this. Drama zones ripe with potential score material. 😄


----------



## Soundbed

dzilizzi said:


> If you aren't getting the upgrade price, it probably is worth waiting for at least a 50% off sale.


The preorder from Diamond is already the 50% off though...


----------



## Toecutter

Cool website demo, that's how you sell your new library! It should be just that player and a big balloon CLICK HERE TO LISTEN AND PREORDER MOTHERFUCKERS

So over with the cryptic teasers, half-assed information (when there's any!!) or the insulting marketing stunts. I don't care about anything else other than the sound. And in this very particular case where EW is debuting a new engine, a quick and dirty technical walkthrough will do.

$495 is still out of my comfort zone for an upgrade but gotta confess that demo made my wallet panic a bit.


----------



## Kery Michael

You know I struggle with this....

I appreciate that there’s an enormous amount of work that must go into producing these sample libraries. I am all for paying people a fair price, especially for a well crafted product.

However, in today’s crowded and competitive landscape, asking me to pay an additional $500 on top of what I already paid for HOD... idk. Exactly what am I getting? Not too interested in orchestrator, I like writing my own stuff. No major complaints with Play.. Are the strings going to be that much better??

There are other things I can pay $500 for that will provide me with more content. Maybe when the price comes down in a year or two...


----------



## gzapper

MarcusD said:


> You could make an entire YouTube channel based on this. Drama zones ripe with potential score material. 😄


Then we could make use of the very best new feature.

Includes all new interfaces that change color depending on the MOOD selected


----------



## Tremendouz

jamieboo said:


> A good demo (it has a fun Bruce Broughton vibe), and nice to be able to play with the mix and spotlight specifics.
> While scrutinising the sound I noticed a bit I wanted to hear more clearly as I wasn't sure it sounded great - the little downward string arpeggios at 0.52 - 0.54 - and I noticed that they were not there when soloing strings. I eventually found them in the 'Ensemble' section.
> What exactly is this do you think?
> I hear brass here too. With brass I could imagine brass solos on the Brass fader, and the brass sections on the Ensemble fader, but a string section is obviously not a solo so what's the distinction between strings on the Strings fader and strings on the Ensemble fader?
> Am I missing something very obvious here?
> 
> Thanks


It's probably a multi instrument patch made utilizing the orchestrator, working similarly to Sonuscore the Orchestra


----------



## gzapper

Its worth going through the demo with the ensemble channel soloed. 
That's clearly the new orchestrator engine, with a number of arpeggiated ensemble parts.
It switches between settings quite quickly, which is interesting, and really is the engine of the piece.
I also ran through the piece with the ensemble track muted as well. Almost made me click on the order now button as I can see the power of this for quick pieces. 

If you can switch between orchestrator patches quickly enough you can sketch out a piece and then use the instrument sections for melody and colour pretty quick.

But $495.......


----------



## Flyo

So I could not have opus engine for my Orchestra Diamond?

I need to pay more than 500 for it?

So I stack on Play?

Bad.


----------



## Flyo

Also
We don’t receive solo Violin 2 and solo Viola either.


----------



## SupremeFist

Flyo said:


> Also
> We don’t receive solo Violin 2 and solo Viola either.


Wait, no Viola? That's it, I'm out.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Soundbed said:


> The preorder from Diamond is already the 50% off though...


This is also confusing. I saw this on their facebook page....


----------



## dzilizzi

JGRaynaud said:


> Seems nobody noticed there is a demo on the website. I'll just put a screen capture so people can find it.. It's kinda hidden if you don't pay attention to it.


Found it at last. Not sure why I kept scrolling past it. 

Not sure how much I trust this demo - Benny can make The Orchestra sound amazing. So if I buy this, can I make it sound as good? quick answer - No! 

But then again, maybe if I get this, there will be an option to buy the orchestration in @Jdiggity1's store so I can figure out how.


----------



## Flyo

There is a really nice spring sale incoming...

Hello BBC.


----------



## gzapper

Jeremy Spencer said:


> This is also confusing. I saw this on their facebook page....


Wow, so then its a $595 upgrade vs a $795 new price? Or will the full price go way up as well?


----------



## gzapper

dzilizzi said:


> Found it at last. Not sure why I kept scrolling past it.
> 
> Not sure how much I trust this demo - Benny can make The Orchestra sound amazing. So if I buy this, can I make it sound as good? quick answer - No!
> 
> But then again, maybe if I get this, there will be an option to buy the orchestration in @Jdiggity1's store so I can figure out how.


Check it out again and use the mute/solo buttons on the mixer. They work.
Then you can really hear what the orchestrator is doing on the 'ensemble' channel.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Flyo said:


> There is a really nice spring sale incoming...
> 
> Hello BBC.


Ok, we get it, you are not going for Opus. Why do you continue to post in here?


----------



## dzilizzi

Soundbed said:


> The preorder from Diamond is already the 50% off though...


That's what I meant. For the upgrade, it is probably worth the preorder. EW sucks on upgrades generally. However, if you are buying the full version for $795 because you only have strings and brass and can't upgrade, it might be worth waiting a year for a sale at 50 or 60% off.


----------



## Flyo

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Ok, we get it, you are not going for Opus. Why do you continue to post in here?


People needs to know there it’s a much better option ahead.
I feel robed waiting all this time for this expensive upgrade and turn down good sales. All other companies bring us engine updates and also new content for free. I put a break to not buy their solo instruments pack a few days before. How can don’t even discount solo material for the users that buy them already.

No loyalty?


----------



## Markrs

SupremeFist said:


> Wait, no Viola? That's it, I'm out.


I was actually a bit surprised they didn't redo the violin and cello (maybe using better code in the player will substantially improve them) or add viola and bass, as this would have matched the leaders section in BBCSO Pro. If they had done this and they were quality Solo Instruments rather than just leaders, then Opus would have offered better value.


----------



## Toecutter

Jeremy Spencer said:


> This is also confusing. I saw this on their facebook page....


I honestly can't support this sort of disrespect towards loyal customers who paid full price for HO Diamond or Gold and are now receiving a big FU from EastWest. They forgot about the ones who helped EW become what they are now and only care about subscriptions. Voting with my wallet!


----------



## Flyo

We don’t have all the solos leaders. So we gave you what already have... again. Solo Violin and Solo Cello. Where they are hiding? Violin 2, Viola and Bass? They don’t have credentials?


----------



## yiph2

Flyo said:


> People needs to know there it’s a much better option ahead.
> I feel robed waiting all this time for this expensive upgrade and turn down good sales. All other companies bring us engine updates and also new content for free. I put a break to not buy their solo instruments pack a few days before. How can don’t even discount solo material for the users that buy them already.
> 
> No loyalty?


This pricing is ridiculous, but come on now, you've done the same thing for AR1. No one wants to see a thread with just complaining about the same thing over and over again. And "robbed"? No one is forcing you to buy anything...


----------



## Markrs

Toecutter said:


> Voting with my wallet!


I think this is the key. If you aware disappointed or unhappy I think it is always best to vote with your wallet.

I will reserve judgement on the value of the upgrade until either i have heard more (walkthroughs) or it is released and their are reviews (having CCX I will get to play with it as well).

The whole Opus discussion over the last 6 months has made me reflect on how good some of the companies are that produce sample libraries. Most of them like Spitfire, VSL, Orchestra Tools and 8dio, offer top notch customer service and support. A lot of them also actively contribute to the forum and the wider community (Spitfire in particular, Labs and Pianobook are just such amazing gifts).

Though I haven't dealt with EW customer service I generally have heard very good things. However outside of that when it comes to the wider community they are just really poor. This is a real shame as their products are really good and I genuinely believe they have aged well. Their subscription offering is a great way to get great libraries at a very affordable rate. The retail cost of buying their libraries is also very good, except when it comes up upgrades, for which they are comically poor at, pricing often more than for new. So it seems a real shame that in the key area of community engagement and communication they are so below the bar set by other competing VI companies.


----------



## Eptesicus

Yeh the "robbed" and "thieves" stuff is rather hyperbolic and silly.

We don't have to buy the upgrade if we dont want to. A company seemingly overpricing their own product doesn't make them thieves.


----------



## dzilizzi

gzapper said:


> Check it out again and use the mute/solo buttons on the mixer. They work.
> Then you can really hear what the orchestrator is doing on the 'ensemble' channel.


That is so cool. All right, I may just have to get this!


----------



## Soundbed

tl;dr USB cables can bottleneck your drive speeds (skip to the bottom).

~

I only paid $372.00 USD for all of Diamond, but I almost never use it. Couple brass patches, couple percussion instruments. That's it. The only other times I use it are when I want to try a comparison test. 

So another $495 (which is already 50% off $995) to actually feel comfortable using it doesn't seem like a terrible price, relative to other full orchestras on the market (like BBSCO, which is less suited for my hybrid sensibilities than the upcoming ARO 'modular' thingy Spitfire have planned, or Berlin stuff from OT).

(I did try Composer Cloud for a couple years but that shouldn't count against the HWO.)

VI-C: "We don't want the orchestrator."

ME: I actually would try out the orchestrator. I've always been curious about The Orchestra and those fun little automated rhythm sequencer patches. Not sure I'd use them after trying them, but it might be fun to try.



Flyo said:


> Also
> We don’t receive solo Violin 2 and solo Viola either.


wait... we don't get solo viola in Opus? I'm out.  only half kidding. I really like violas.



easyrider said:


> Cinesamples have new guis?


Yes, IIRC their new GUI "looks" old, but their old GUI looks even older. They released the old looking new GUI for free. Here's the older interface, I think:




Lazer42 said:


> Agreed. I've never had any problems with Play. It's been really quite stable and worked very well - it's just missing features.





Jeremy Spencer said:


> What type of issues? It's the only player I've never had a problem with...like ever.


Thanks for the tech support encouragement, I will give Play another shot on my fastest drives (and cables, see below*) and see if I can reproduce the issues on my latest system. It was crashing and dropping notes in S1 earlier this year ... but truth be told the samples were not loading from my fastest SSD setup, so it could be user error. Also the slow load times were conflicting with my ProTools autosave routine, in late 2018, which was the last time I was really really _trying_ to use Play. ProTools would try to autosave while Play was loading for more than 5 minutes, and basically PT would crash / hang.

*sigh*

Now that I have Studio One 5.2 and the new "Sound Variations" feature, and a slave computer and VEP to load Play instances separately, I might be able to start using Play with Diamond a little more over the next two weeks to see if I can get it workable without Opus. But then again, the new woodwinds. Hmm...

*Side note, because this thread is already all over the place, did everyone know that USB C cables can have three speeds? If you have an external drive and enclosure that can run at USB 3.1Gen2 (aka 3.2) speeds, a USB 3.1 cable can "bottleneck" your speed, but a faster cable can go 2x or 4x as fast. I discovered this when I was looking at identical external drives and enclosures *with different cables* in the VSL Synchron player drive speed test.


----------



## Soundbed

SupremeFist said:


> Wait, no Viola? That's it, I'm out.


dude! think i typed the nearly the exact same thing without reading yours lol


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Even though I find the upgrade price "a bit high", you have to consider that there is a lot of additional content. What did you guys expect – 99€?

I'm a diamond owner, so I get:

New OPUS engine
Orchestrator (value of 299$*)
Reworked samples (to what extent we don't exactly know, except woodwinds)
New samples (woodwind ensembles, some brass, a bigger violin section)
Solo instruments (violin, cello, harp; value of 299$*)
This is really a lot, in my opinion. Okay, I understand if someone already owns the solo instruments it should be considered in the upgrade price. I don't have them, so this is great. But I hope they have been reworked, too.

Concerning the reworked samples: Of course there are costs involved. For example, the bigger SYNCHRON-ized libraries from VSL cost round about 100 € for me as a VI library owner. This should be be taken into consideration; the remaining costs are for the new engine and the new recordings. You have to decide whether this is appropriate or not.

I don't actually need the Orchestrator, but this is like a dedicated library on its own. This has also to be considered.

This does not mean that I hit the pre-order button, I didn't. There are too many things we don't know anything about, especially the new feature of the OPUS engine. And I want to hear the woodwinds.


---
* taken from the pre-order page


----------



## Flyo

Something put me out of buying solo instruments from EW for more than $200 and they release an upgrade path without discounting that material? It’s a joke man? 
Where are the business logic here?
How can denied that also?

The things I say for AR1 was a suggestion, I exceed with hundreds post, that was my bad ok. 

But this it’s on another realm ... a tricky money play for the customers, musicians and composures in a middle of a pandemic crisis.


----------



## Soundbed

dzilizzi said:


> That's what I meant. For the upgrade, it is probably worth the preorder. EW sucks on upgrades generally. However, if you are buying the full version for $795 because you only have strings and brass and can't upgrade, it might be worth waiting a year for a sale at 50 or 60% off.


oooh..... for people who are not upgrading, I understand you now. man, this thread moves quickly.


Toecutter said:


> I honestly can't support this sort of disrespect towards loyal customers who paid full price for HO Diamond or Gold and are now receiving a big FU from EastWest. They forgot about the ones who helped EW become what they are now and only care about subscriptions. Voting with my wallet!


your avatar is so fitting for your comments.


Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Even though I find the upgrade price "a bit high", you have to consider that there is a lot of additional content. What did you guys expect – 99€?
> 
> I'm a diamond owner, so I get:
> 
> New OPUS engine
> Orchestrator
> Reworked samples (to what extent we don't exactly know, except woodwinds)
> New samples (woodwind ensembles, some brass, a bigger violin section)
> Solo instruments (violin, cello, harp)
> This is really a lot, in my opinion. Okay, I understand if someone already owns the solo instruments it should be considered in the upgrade price. I don't have them, so this is great. But I hope they have been reworked, too.
> 
> Concerning the reworked samples: Of course there are costs involved. For example, the bigger SYNCHRON-ized libraries from VSL cost round about 100 € for me as a VI library owner. This should be be taken into consideration; the remaining costs are for the new engine and the new recordings. You have to decide whether this is appropriate or not.
> 
> This does not mean that I hit the pre-order button, I didn't. There are too many things we don't know anything about, especially the new feature of the OPUS engine. And I want to hear the woodwinds.


I'd pay $330 for all the new stuff. with my original bargain basement price of $372 for Diamond that would make me about $700 invested (plus taxes), which is about what I'd feel comfortable paying, knowing what I know so far.


----------



## Flyo

I was not forced to pay anything more, but was a long way of waitings and understand how this company works and communicate with their loyalty consumers. Lol


----------



## tc9000




----------



## tc9000

Gonna save 16.7 dollars a year!


----------



## tc9000

TBH i'm pretty happy with HoD and I'm loving BBC SO Core after the recent legato update.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Soundbed said:


> I'd pay $330 for all the new stuff. with my original bargain basement price of $372 for Diamond that would make me about $700 invested (plus taxes), which is about what I'd feel comfortable paying, knowing what I know so far.


Absolutely. Maybe it would have been "wiser" to split the Orchestrator for those who don't need it, and to reduce the price.


----------



## Trax

gst98 said:


> All the resources it uses are because it is still the only chromatically sampled library (AFAIK).


Where do people got this information from? I've been trying to track that down.


----------



## mcalis

Trax said:


> Where do people got this information from? I've been trying to track that down.


You can tell from looking at the samples folder. So for example, this is one dyn layer of one mic for sus 2 trumpets:






Every number in the file corresponds to a midi definition of a note (middle C is 60 for example). If it was not chromatically sampled, there would be gaps in the numbers. Adding to that, each file has a unique size, so they're not copies of the same sample but with different names (which would be a massive waste of space anyway).

Another way you can tell is just by holding some sustained notes on instruments and listening closely for the attack/loop points. If you can hear the exact same attack/loop point, or any other part that could identify a sample (like a small noise in the background) on more than one note, it's because the sample was stretched across more than one note.

Pizzes are often a good way to tell because they usually don't have crazy amounts of RR or dynamic layers (so it's easier to cycle through them) and quite often there's at least one pizz sample that's distinctly different from the others. Hence making it easy to tell if that same sample is mapped to more than one key.


----------



## gzapper

I'm looking over the Opus page and it raises a few questions I'd love answered, and one point.

Purge - there is now a purge button at the top

The big questions are:

One instance? 
It looks like this new Opus player puts all instances within one window, the total opposite of Spitfire. I'm not sure that this is true only for those instances in the 'perform' tab at the top or if you can really access all instruments and instances through one window. I like this idea rather than having to open so many Spitfire players to switch mic mixes, for instance.

Mixer - looks like you can still do multiple outs for sections, and from the demo its pretty clear that you can output the 'perform' or 'orchestrator' arpeggiated ensemble tracks separately from the other sections, so you can still do stems. 

Fancy colours/moods
The mood ring/tone colour section - is that a global mic mix selector? 

VEP settings
If you're automating 'orchestrator' or arpeggiated parts while you're hosting in VEP does this mean you need to couple every instance or lose your orchestrator sections? 

And if its one big opus instance with orchestrator patches how does that effect how you store pieces?


----------



## Soundbed

Trax said:


> Where do people got this information from? I've been trying to track that down.


I don't know where other people get that info but if you find a sample that has any sort of weird sound that catches your attention, play a half step up and a half step down and see if you still hear it in the "pitch shifted" nearby chromatic notes. An easy example in some libraries with be the lowest note of any strings section, because it cannot be played with vibrato. If the next note up doesn't have vibrato either, then it was likely whole tone sampled. If the next note up DOES have vibrato, play the next note up and see if it sounds like the previous. If that note sounds like the previous then they may have sampled whole tone but starting at the first half step up.

Purchase every library on the market and then repeat these tests. Then you'll know.


----------



## Soundbed

mcalis said:


> You can tell from looking at the samples folder. So for example, this is one dyn layer of one mic for sus 2 trumpets:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every number in the file corresponds to a midi definition of a note (middle C is 60 for example).


I like my answer better. Your answer is too easy. My answer involves more work and more money, therefore it must be better. /sarcasm


----------



## Flyo

A good smart move for all, if they would split the cost for their orchestrator.

Exactly.

I was ready to pay $250 - $350 for an engine upgrade path and mew audio content.

But the move for costumers that already pay full for the solo material was to much. Also not having the possibility to work with the new engine already having the Orchestra on Diamond form.


----------



## Soundbed

Flyo said:


> A good smart move for all, if they would split the cost for their orchestrator.
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> I was ready to pay $250 - $350 for an engine upgrade path and mew audio content.
> 
> But the move for costumers that already pay full for the solo material was to much. Also not having the possibility to work with the new engine already having the Orchestra on Diamond form.


If we all band together and don't buy it until it's $300 ...

/sarcasm


----------



## dzilizzi

Soundbed said:


> I don't know where other people get that info but if you find a sample that has any sort of weird sound that catches your attention, play a half step up and a half step down and see if you still hear it in the "pitch shifted" nearby chromatic notes. An easy example in some libraries with be the lowest note of any strings section, because it cannot be played with vibrato. If the next note up doesn't have vibrato either, then it was likely whole tone sampled. If the next note up DOES have vibrato, play the next note up and see if it sounds like the previous. If that note sounds like the previous then they may have sampled whole tone but starting at the first half step up.
> 
> Purchase every library on the market and then repeat these tests. Then you'll know.


I knew there was a reason for purchasing all these libraries!


----------



## Soundbed

okay I finally listened to the demo and esp the ensembles "channel." if that's what the orchestrator sounds like I am less interested in it. could be the nature of the relatively lighthearted cue (imho) I guess. what would have been neat is if the same demo was done in each "mood" esp the "epic" mood (for me).

by the way, there's another sample developer that is having a really big sale right now. don't go to the developer with initials NI if you want to save your money and ignore "up to 75% off hollywood sounds".


----------



## mcalis

Going through the sample folders also has a therapeutic effect in terms of resisting getting more strings libraries.

If you look at the HWS sustain samples for example, there's 5 dynamic layers for non-vibrato sustains on the 1st violins, +5 dynamic layers with vibrato, and then +3 dynamic layers with molto vibrato for a total of 13 dynamic layers. On top of that there are 2 variations of sustains (up bow and down bow). And all of this chromatically sampled. Whether you actually like the sound of HWS is up to everyone to decide individually, but with this amount of data in patches, it's really no surprise that PLAY takes a bit longer to load up some patches than your average kontakt-based string lib. 

I can find plenty fault with EW as a company, but I can't argue wit the recording quality & depth of recording. With two titan audio programmers at the helm of OPUS, and a titan sound engineer in charge of the recording in a very good (though perhaps not quite as famous) room, I'd be really surprised if the product stinks. 

I'll probably be one of those who takes the jump, and if I can find the time for it, I'll be sure to report back to those who (understandably) are on the fence about a potential purchase.


----------



## gst98

Trax said:


> Where do people got this information from? I've been trying to track that down.


Well, with Kontakt libraries I usually notice them when I go into the back end of the nki, but you can also hear it. If there is a quirk with the sample such as tuning, or a bad loop, you'll hear it on the next key as well, because they are triggering the same sample.

It is strange to think that even if SF recorded the same number of dynamic layers that EW did, they would still be recording 50% of the content in HWO. Not even taking into account the finger position samples.


----------



## Soundbed

mcalis said:


> Going through the sample folders also has a therapeutic effect in terms of resisting getting more strings libraries.
> 
> If you look at the HWS sustain samples for example, there's 5 dynamic layers for non-vibrato sustains on the 1st violins, +5 dynamic layers with vibrato, and then +3 dynamic layers with molto vibrato for a total of 13 dynamic layers. On top of that there are 2 variations of sustains (up bow and down bow). And all of this chromatically sampled.
> 
> I can find plenty fault with EW as a company, but I can't argue wit the recording quality & depth of recording. With two titan audio programmers at the helm of OPUS, and a titan sound engineer in charge of the recording in a very good (though perhaps not quite as famous) room, I'd be really surprised if the product stinks.
> 
> I'll probably be one of those who takes the jump, and if I can find the time for it, I'll be sure to report back to those who (understandably) are on the fence about a potential purchase.


to get more serious, yeah I agree. it will probably be a very good if not a fantastic product, no matter the price.


----------



## hdsmile

Soundbed said:


> If we all band together and don't buy it until it's $300 ...





Flyo said:


> A good smart move for all, if they would split the cost for their orchestrator.
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> I was ready to pay $250 - $300 for an engine upgrade path and mew audio content.
> 
> But the move for costumers that already pay full for the solo material was to much. Also not having the possibility to work with the new engine already having the Orchestra on Diamond form.


I agree 100% and we all owners of HO Diamond should protest this price as it's absolutely unacceptable and it would be nice if someone created a poll who is against buying this nightmare update price!


----------



## cqd

hdsmile said:


> I agree 100% and we all owners of HO Diamond should protest this price as it's absolutely unacceptable and it would be nice if someone created a poll who is against buying this nightmare update price!


How much did you pay for HO?..


----------



## Eptesicus

mcalis said:


> Going through the sample folders also has a therapeutic effect in terms of resisting getting more strings libraries.
> 
> If you look at the HWS sustain samples for example, there's 5 dynamic layers for non-vibrato sustains on the 1st violins, +5 dynamic layers with vibrato, and then +3 dynamic layers with molto vibrato for a total of 13 dynamic layers. On top of that there are 2 variations of sustains (up bow and down bow). And all of this chromatically sampled. Whether you actually like the sound of HWS is up to everyone to decide individually, but with this amount of data in patches, it's really no surprise that PLAY takes a bit longer to load up some patches than your average kontakt-based string lib.
> 
> I can find plenty fault with EW as a company, but I can't argue wit the recording quality & depth of recording. With two titan audio programmers at the helm of OPUS, and a titan sound engineer in charge of the recording in a very good (though perhaps not quite as famous) room, I'd be really surprised if the product stinks.
> 
> I'll probably be one of those who takes the jump, and if I can find the time for it, I'll be sure to report back to those who (understandably) are on the fence about a potential purchase.



This is what sort of disappoints me about the upgrade price and the fact that you can't use the new Opus engine unless you buy the entire upgrade.

I was semi-looking forward to coming back to HO Diamond if the usability was made better and it had a few new recordings to play with. 

Unfortunately, at $495 that is a whole new library price, not "upgrade to get a bit more use of what i have" price.


----------



## gzapper

cqd said:


> How much did you pay for HO?..


I got it on sale for $400 but haven't used it much because of the interface.
Would have been smarter not to have bought it on sale and then buying it now without the upgrade, that would be cheaper.


----------



## hdsmile

cqd said:


> How much did you pay for HO?..


I don't remember exactly, but something about $750 for HO Diamond+Harp


----------



## cqd

gzapper said:


> I got it on sale for $400 but haven't used it much because of the interface.
> Would have been smarter not to have bought it on sale and then buying it now without the upgrade, that would be cheaper.


So, the price of one section of the CSS series..
~1/2 the price of a section of the Berlin series..
~1/2 the price of afflatus..
~1/2 the price of BBC..
~1/4 the price of spitfire symphony series


----------



## RightOnTime

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Even though I find the upgrade price "a bit high", you have to consider that there is a lot of additional content. What did you guys expect – 99€?
> 
> I'm a diamond owner, so I get:
> 
> New OPUS engine
> Orchestrator (value of 299$*)
> Reworked samples (to what extent we don't exactly know, except woodwinds)
> New samples (woodwind ensembles, some brass, a bigger violin section)
> Solo instruments (violin, cello, harp; value of 299$*)


What about people who didn't want any of those additions, and just want a more efficient, user-friendly version of their current libraries?

I would've happily paid for the Opus engine if it meant being able to use HWS and HWB to their full potential.



Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Orchestrator (value of 299$*)


It's not $299 value to me - very fun feature but not something that'll ever figure in my workflow.



Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Even though I find the upgrade price "a bit high", you have to consider that there is a lot of additional content. What did you guys expect – 99€?
> 
> Solo instruments (violin, cello, harp; value of 299$*)


Value to me: *$0*. I used the harp once in a project (a bit noisy but not bad) but I've got better ones now, and the solo strings were unusable. They sound like something from 2002  

I think the new content could be great and I'm happy it's an option for people, but I really just want to see my existing libraries updated to 2021 standards (not having to create a separate track for each articulation, maybe some baked mic mixes) without having to pay for a suite of unneeded content.


----------



## Flyo

Oh no! me again complaining for the amount of charge for a not well discerned upgrade path.

It is just me complaining?


----------



## hdsmile

cqd said:


> So, the price of one section of the CSS series..
> ~1/2 the price of a section of the Berlin series..
> ~1/2 the price of afflatus..
> ~1/2 the price of BBC..
> ~1/4 the price of spitfire symphony series


sorry but it's wrong calculation for people as me, who has invested a bit more for HO + some solo instruments


----------



## gzapper

hdsmile said:


> sorry but it's wrong calculation for people as me, who has invested a bit more for HO


Also wrong calculation for those of us who wait for sales.
Like now, CSS @ NI or Opus, hmmm..


----------



## Eptesicus

RightOnTime said:


> What about people who didn't want any of those additions, and just want a more efficient, user-friendly version of their current libraries?
> 
> I would've happily paid for the Opus engine if it meant being able to use HWS and HWB to their full potential.
> 
> 
> It's not $299 value to me - very fun feature but not something that'll ever figure in my workflow.
> 
> 
> Value to me: *$0*. I used the harp once in a project (a bit noisy but not bad) but I've got better ones now, and the solo strings were unusable. They sound like something from 2002
> 
> I think the new content could be great and I'm happy it's an option for people, but I really just want to see my existing libraries updated to 2021 standards (not having to create a separate track for each articulation, maybe some baked mic mixes) without having to pay for a suite of unneeded content.



Some valid points here.

I too am not interested in the solo instruments (the violin and cello sound awful/unsuable and i have far better solo strings already, and i have a million harps), or the orchestrator.

I would like the reworked library/engine and new recordings though.


----------



## hdsmile

Once again!, the update price is absolutely unacceptable and it would be nice if someone created a poll who is against buying this nightmare update price!


----------



## cqd

hdsmile said:


> Once again!, the update price is absolutely unacceptable and it would be nice if someone created a poll who is against buying this nightmare update price!


You can just not buy it like..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

hdsmile said:


> Once again!, the update price is absolutely unacceptable and it would be nice if someone created a poll who is against buying this nightmare update price!


I'm sure a poll would be a mere fart in the wind, there are thousands of EW customers around the globe. Either buy it...or don't.


----------



## hdsmile

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I'm sure a poll would be a mere fart in the wind, there are thousands of EW customers around the globe. Either buy it...or don't.


I don't think so, nobody ever knows what the reaction will be


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

hdsmile said:


> I don't think so, nobody ever knows what the reaction will be


What I mean is, even if there's a poll and a hundred members vote that price is too high, EW is not going to be brought to their knees (there won't be a corporate shakeup). It would be pointless IMO.


----------



## Trash Panda

hdsmile said:


> Once again!, the update price is absolutely unacceptable and it would be nice if someone created a poll who is against buying this nightmare update price!


You could create the poll as a new thread yourself if you really want it that badly.


----------



## gzapper

cqd said:


> You can just not buy it like..


Not nearly as effective as declaring you won't buy it for 180 pages. 
Take that EW.

I'm thinking about it, and I wasn't before. But there are too many questions.
Is it all under one interface?
You can do keyswitching and purge samples now, but are there more useful patches or is it still set so you need a track per articulation plus now a track for each 'ensemble' patch for the orchestrator?


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Wow that demo player is genuinely great. Also, the composition is so lovely that it lays bare the simple fact that your writing does more than your samples to produce a great end product.


----------



## Dewdman42

A poll is stupid. Just buy it or don’t. If they don’t hit their sales expectations they can read this thread to find out why. If the price is right they will sell a lot, if the price is wrong they won’t sell a lot, regardless of what we think about fairness. There is no fairness involved, they are trying to collect as much money as they can and we are trying to spend as little as we can while we potentially exchange our money for their product. When the price matches value then it’s win-win and everybody gets what they want.

I happen to think the price is wrong for upgrades but pretty decent for new buyers. But hey maybe it will be a huge success. 

Thing is EW has already destroyed their own poker face by routinely having 50% sales or even less. People that bought HWSO when it first came out can tell you how people have for the past five years or so been able to obtain it for 1/3 or even less of the original cost. EW was able to get a lot of people to buy it that wouldn’t have spent the higher amount at all, it wasn’t in their wheelhouse ever to spend that much. But EW did this for years and milked as much money as possible through huge discounts and subscription access to the whole catalog. Scarcely updated any software or samples the entire time. They devalued their aging product line themselves. Also a lot of other competing products have come out since then. But here we are today with something new, that’s exciting; but In order to make their revenue goals their price has to match perceived value or it won’t happen. We shall see


----------



## Kabraxis

curtisschweitzer said:


> Wow that demo player is genuinely great. Also, the composition is so lovely that it lays bare the simple fact that your writing does more than your samples to produce a great end product.


In different words, all the amazing virtual compositions you hear and admire so far aren't made with this unreleased library.

This thread seems once again, spending money can make anyone a better composer/give a huge headstart, which is far from reality.


----------



## BasariStudios

gst98 said:


> This kind of thing gets said all the time but the truth is we have no idea how efficient Play is. Other than some of the older libraries there is no way to compare because you can't get HWO in Kontakt.
> 
> People say it has long load times. Have you looked at how much data you are loading? The biggest violin patch is 10gb per mic! obviously, that is going to load slower than other a 500mb SF legato. And as you would expect, it takes more resources to play these samples back. Batch resave is a Kontakt thing, no dedicated player needs it, they work completely differently.


----------



## BasariStudios

Guys. Vote with your Wallets. We all know few months from now Hoopus full price will be 495$ and upgrade from Diamond 795$.


----------



## CDNmusic

Kabraxis said:


> In different words, all the amazing virtual compositions you hear and admire so fare aren't made with this unreleased library.


Not interested to engage in a lengthy discussion here but what evidence do you have to say the demo on the OPUS page was not made with OPUS? Pretty ballsy on your part to say that without proof so will patiently wait to see how you can back that claim.


----------



## Eptesicus

curtisschweitzer said:


> Wow that demo player is genuinely great. Also, the composition is so lovely that it lays bare the simple fact that your writing does more than your samples to produce a great end product.



Yeh the demo player and the faders on the stems is a nice touch and a good idea for full orchestral library demos.


----------



## Tremendouz

CDNmusic said:


> Not interested to engage in a lengthy discussion here but what evidence do you have to say the demo on the OPUS page was not made with OPUS? Pretty ballsy on your part to say that without proof so will patiently wait to see how you can back that claim.


I understood their message as in "there are already countless of great virtual orchestrations being done without this "new" library so you don't really need it to make good music"


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

CDNmusic said:


> Not interested to engage in a lengthy discussion here but what evidence do you have to say the demo on the OPUS page was not made with OPUS? Pretty ballsy on your part to say that without proof so will patiently wait to see how you can back that claim.


I initially thought the same but I think the point was that the current demos out there from everybody that sound great were made with existing libraries. You don't need a NEW library to make amazing demos. That user has now been banned from Vi-C.


----------



## Trash Panda

Kabraxis said:


> This thread seems once again, spending money can make anyone a better composer/give a huge headstart, which is far from reality.


But their page says the Orchestrator will make instant blockbuster Hollywood soundtracks effortlessly. Are you saying that’s not true???


----------



## CDNmusic

Tremendouz and ALittleNightMusic you are both probably right....I stand corrected if that's the case and Kabraxis can clarify.


----------



## Soundbed

gzapper said:


> I'm looking over the Opus page and it raises a few questions I'd love answered, and one point.
> 
> Purge - there is now a purge button at the top
> 
> The big questions are:
> 
> One instance?
> It looks like this new Opus player puts all instances within one window, the total opposite of Spitfire. I'm not sure that this is true only for those instances in the 'perform' tab at the top or if you can really access all instruments and instances through one window. I like this idea rather than having to open so many Spitfire players to switch mic mixes, for instance.
> 
> Mixer - looks like you can still do multiple outs for sections, and from the demo its pretty clear that you can output the 'perform' or 'orchestrator' arpeggiated ensemble tracks separately from the other sections, so you can still do stems.
> 
> Fancy colours/moods
> The mood ring/tone colour section - is that a global mic mix selector?
> 
> VEP settings
> If you're automating 'orchestrator' or arpeggiated parts while you're hosting in VEP does this mean you need to couple every instance or lose your orchestrator sections?
> 
> And if its one big opus instance with orchestrator patches how does that effect how you store pieces?


These are some great questions.


----------



## José Herring

KallumS said:


> $495 to upgrade from HO Diamond.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Way too expensive for me.


Don't worry in 6 months it will be half price, then after a year they'll have a 60% off sale on that, then the next year everybody will forget that the reduced price was 60% off of the 1/2 price sale and then have a 30% off sale on the 50% plus the 60% off from the original price. 

I think I finally figured out EW pricing.


----------



## dcoscina

Pricing aside, is the Trailer comprised of the new samples? I don't hear anything earth-shatteringly realistic here... the winds, especially the flutes/picc sound pretty unconvincing...or at least not a "quantum leap" ahead of what's already out there. Think I will pass for now. Hear some more demos, wait a year and maybe pick up the upgrade for $149.99 during the next Covid Lockdown Clearance Sale.


----------



## José Herring

dcoscina said:


> Pricing aside, is the Trailer comprised of the new samples? I don't hear anything earth-shatteringly realistic here... the winds, especially the flutes/picc sound pretty unconvincing...or at least not a "quantum leap" ahead of what's already out there. Think I will pass for now. Hear some more demos, wait a year and maybe pick up the upgrade for $149.99 during the next Covid Lockdown Clearance Sale.


If you look deep on that page there's a mixer, in little tiny print there's a demo. It takes about 1 minute to load up but that demo is fantastic! 

I think they should take the trailers down for now. It isn't doing EW any favors at the moment because it gave me the impression that the update went backwards. But, the demo on the page is way better.


----------



## AndyP

It's kind of a shame that we don't get more information, but the pre-sale price is already called.
On the one hand, I'm interested in bringing HO to a new, modern state, on the other hand, I'm hanging in the air because I don't know what to do with the offer, except wait and see.

In the meantime, I'm jumping on the Cinesamples NI sale bandwagon and waiting to see if there's any useful information in the pre-sale phase. The price gives me a slight headache especially since I only want part of the package. I love the sound of this library, I already have it, and use HO regularly. 
The crux of the matter is, I've managed without OPUS so far, and I suspect I'll manage without it for a while.

I listened to Benny Oschmann´s demo on the OPUS site, and I listened to his Hollywood demo again on https://dynamedion.com/team/benny-oschmann/ track 1. And what does that tell me? Exactly, somehow it goes the same as before.


----------



## yellow_lupine

For strange reasons Opus player will not be compatible with the old Hollywood orchestra:

“OPUS software is only compatible with Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition (which now includes the Hollywood Solo Instruments); it is not compatible with the original Hollywood Orchestra, original Hollywood Solo Instruments, or the MIDI Guitar series. Users not upgrading to the Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition should continue to use PLAY 6. All other EastWest products are supported in the OPUS software.”

That’s what a support agent told me.


----------



## AB3

yellow_lupine said:


> For strange reasons Opus player will not be compatible with the old Hollywood orchestra:
> 
> “OPUS software is only compatible with Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition (which now includes the Hollywood Solo Instruments); it is not compatible with the original Hollywood Orchestra, original Hollywood Solo Instruments, or the MIDI Guitar series. Users not upgrading to the Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition should continue to use PLAY 6. All other EastWest products are supported in the OPUS software.”
> 
> That’s what a support agent told me.


I believe what you wrote. But I believe it is inconsistent with what Nick told us a page or so ago on this thread. Thank you for posting.


----------



## PeterBaumann

Jeremy Spencer said:


> What type of issues? It's the only player I've never had a problem with...like ever.


Bounce in place doesn't work properly, for one. In Logic at least.... can't speak for other DAWs.





EW Play samples cut off when using bounce in place/offline bounce in LPX


I'm just setting up a new template for my samples, and have run a quick test which is throwing up an odd bug. Systems specs are in the description, but basically my PC Slave machine is cutting off the tails of EWHO samples in Play 6 when hosted in VEPro 6 (latest versions of both). They play...




vi-control.net


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

PeterBaumann said:


> Bounce in place doesn't work properly, for one. In Logic at least.... can't speak for other DAWs.


Not to sidetrack...but I don't have this issue with Play/Logic. Maybe I'm lucky!


----------



## Soundbed

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Not to sidetrack...but I don't have this issue with Play/Logic. Maybe I'm lucky!


Play has only crashed on me twice so far (unexpectedly quit) while trying to put it to use today. One of the times was standalone usage, not in a DAW, with only one Instrument loaded. I was changing my output sound device and it unexpectedly quit. The other time it brought down Studio One. But I am on 6.1.5 so I'm downloading 6.1.9 to see if that fixes anything.


----------



## Trax

mcalis said:


> You can tell from looking at the samples folder. So for example, this is one dyn layer of one mic for sus 2 trumpets:


Thanks for the detailed answer. I know what I'm doing this month every day now.

The other people too who answered, thank you, I guess  J/K much thanks


----------



## mcalis

José Herring said:


> If you look deep on that page there's a mixer, in little tiny print there's a demo. It takes about 1 minute to load up but that demo is fantastic!
> 
> I think they should take the trailers down for now. It isn't doing EW any favors at the moment because it gave me the impression that the update went backwards. But, the demo on the page is way better.


They'll keep up the trailer, I'm pretty sure. Some of the early Hollywood Choir demos were... highly questionable, but those stayed up too (I think you'll know which ones I mean if you listen to the demos now)

Which is a strange decision because, for the brief period I had subscription, I rather liked HW choirs. Certainly it couldn't do all the amazing things EW claimed in their marketing (I wasn't counting on it anyway), but I couldn't help but think it would work brilliantly for a LOTR Howard Shore style mockup featuring choir.


----------



## PeterBaumann

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Not to sidetrack...but I don't have this issue with Play/Logic. Maybe I'm lucky!


Also not to sidetrack  ... Are you using Play as a VST in VEPro on a remote PC? From memory, the issue only happens if using the VST version of Play.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

I just realised - the mixer on the main page with the demo is fully functional, so you can solo, cut, pan, and basically mix the demo for yourself...that's pretty cool 👍🏻


----------



## Trax

StarfireBlack said:


> I just realised - the mixer on the main page with the demo is fully functional, so you can solo, cut, pan, and basically mix the demo for yourself...that's pretty cool 👍🏻


Enjoy it, the pre order price was $490, to make that feature available $5 was added. So those ordering OPUS are paying for that functionality. Programmers don't come cheap, and pretty cool stuff don't either.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Trax said:


> Enjoy it, the pre order price was $490, to make that feature available $5 was added. So those ordering OPUS are paying for that functionality. Programmers don't come cheap, and pretty cool stuff don't either.


Way back then on the older Hollywood Strings page (I think it was strings) I remember there was a mixer for comparing the gold mics to the diamonds ones. So, nothing new, old feature from some years ago. 😂


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Way back then on the older Hollywood Strings page (I think it was strings) I remember there was a mixer for comparing the gold mics to the diamonds ones. So, nothing new, old feature from some years ago. 😂


Ah, never saw that. It is something I'd like to see others adopt as better for hearing samples than the huge fully mixed demos that seems to be the norm, especially when they don't do demo versions either.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Way back then on the older Hollywood Strings page (I think it was strings) I remember there was a mixer for comparing the gold mics to the diamonds ones. So, nothing new, old feature from some years ago. 😂


I remember that! It was really cool.


----------



## Trax

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Way back then on the older Hollywood Strings page (I think it was strings) I remember there was a mixer for comparing the gold mics to the diamonds ones. So, nothing new, old feature from some years ago. 😂



EW puts the no in innovation. Now I feel foolish being excited about old stuff.


----------



## Trash Panda

Trax said:


> EW puts the no in innovation.


Regardless of who that’s aimed at, THAT is just good comedy right there.


----------



## dcoscina

José Herring said:


> If you look deep on that page there's a mixer, in little tiny print there's a demo. It takes about 1 minute to load up but that demo is fantastic!
> 
> I think they should take the trailers down for now. It isn't doing EW any favors at the moment because it gave me the impression that the update went backwards. But, the demo on the page is way better.


It’s ok. The winds are nicer than the trailer, but the strings.... bergerson’s older HS demos sound better. The piece is nice enough. Someone studied Bruce Broughton and John Williams melodic and harmonic licks for sure.


----------



## Trash Panda

All jokes aside, what is the issue everyone has with the solo violin and solo cello? They sound fairly good in the small bits of content I can find on them, but commentary here and lack of overall content showcasing them makes it hard to understand.


----------



## RightOnTime

dcoscina said:


> Pricing aside, is the Trailer comprised of the new samples? I don't hear anything earth-shatteringly realistic here... the winds, especially the flutes/picc sound pretty unconvincing...or at least not a "quantum leap" ahead of what's already out there. Think I will pass for now. Hear some more demos, wait a year and maybe pick up the upgrade for $149.99 during the next Covid Lockdown Clearance Sale.


You're not going crazy, I thought the trailer was weirdly cheesy and unfulfilling. Solid generic action cue but just sounded a bit flat and lifeless. For a release like this you'd think they'd pull out all the stops and do something absolutely breathtaking. 

I've done mixes with HWO that sounded more realistic, and I'm a semi-clueless amateur


----------



## Mike Fox

I’m just happy to see this thread at the top, instead of, “This is London Calling”.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Trash Panda said:


> All jokes aside, what is the issue everyone has with the solo violin and solo cello? They sound fairly good in the small bits of content I can find on them, but commentary here and lack of overall content showcasing them makes it hard to understand.


They just lack realism and playability. I’ve tried to use them, but they are just plain awful IMO. They are one notch above the original solo violin, if your familiar with that classic gem. I find the solo strings in Symphonic Orchestra better.


----------



## lukevaljean

Eptesicus said:


> Yeh, the pre order price for new users at $795 is really very good.
> 
> In comparison, the $495 upgrade price from diamond is a bit of a joke. It just isn't proportional in any way shape or form.
> 
> I think EW need to realise that not everyone picked the diamond edition up in one of the latest sales. I think it would also serve them well to research the current market where many prominent sample developers are updating their player/gui and are even offering new recordings completely free for existing users. I in no way expected this upgrade to be free as there are a few new recordings, but $495 is a bit silly.
> 
> For those that spent a decent amount on their diamond collection that upgrade price just feels like you are almost buying it twice and i fully appreciate why long time existing users feel rather annoyed.


i agree complete, i was willing to jump at this at 200$ maybe even 350 as an upgrade but 500? for the preorder? that's a slap in the face after this nightmare launch and i'm very dissapointed lol. I wish i didn't fomo into EWHO diamond. On the bright side NI has an cine-samples sale right now with a great package for 400$(cinebrass pro, descant horn, solo strings, woodwins pro + more) and spitfires spring sale is right around the corner with an great bundle i'm sure. Dang it's crazy what good customer sentiment gets people talking about your products, maybe EW will learn some day.


----------



## WhiteNoiz

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Way back then on the older Hollywood Strings page (I think it was strings) I remember there was a mixer for comparing the gold mics to the diamonds ones. So, nothing new, old feature from some years ago.


That was actually for EWQLSO Platinum; it was similar. The demo playing and you could adjust the 3 mic volumes or solo/unload the mics. Look here for example (although it's not functioning):





Symphonic Orchestra Virtual Instrument







web.archive.org


----------



## AB3

lukevaljean said:


> i agree complete, i was willing to jump at this at 200$ maybe even 350 as an upgrade but 500? for the preorder? that's a slap in the face after this nightmare launch and i'm very dissapointed lol. I wish i didn't fomo into EWHO diamond. On the bright side NI has an cine-samples sale right now with a great package for 400$(cinebrass pro, descant horn, solo strings, woodwins pro + more) and spitfires spring sale is right around the corner with an great bundle i'm sure. Dang it's crazy what good customer sentiment gets people talking about your products, maybe EW will learn some day.


I agree too. Spending money is a form of voting. I vote for others right now. I have EWQSLO platinum and it is just fine. And I have great Vienna strings for my needs. And I have emotional cello if I want to get all emotional about all this.    (And I have others vsts I cannot remember


----------



## Kabraxis

CDNmusic said:


> Tremendouz and ALittleNightMusic you are both probably right....I stand corrected if that's the case and Kabraxis can clarify.


Yes, that's what I meant 

HOOPUS could be a fantastic library when it's out. But some people here talking like this is the only obstacle between them and being an illustrious composer sounds ridiculous.


----------



## dzilizzi

Kabraxis said:


> Yes, that's what I meant
> 
> HOOPUS could be a fantastic library when it's out. But some people here talking like this is the only obstacle between them and being an illustrious composer sounds ridiculous.


It's not?!?!?!? Well, darn it! I figured with the orchestrator, I would be an instant success at composing! A famous star - even an Oscar winner! I am so disappointed now! I hate EW! They are horrible people! And a horrible company! 

All kidding aside, I hope they do post a walkthrough at least (many walkthroughs? It technically is more than one library and the orchestrator) before the 20th. Like it really matters. I might as well buy it now, since it would have to be pretty bad for me not to buy it.


----------



## lettucehat

Kabraxis said:


> Yes, that's what I meant
> 
> HOOPUS could be a fantastic library when it's out. But some people here talking like this is the only obstacle between them and being an illustrious composer sounds ridiculous.


Who's doing that?


----------



## SupremeFist

Hmm, I wonder if it's worth spending $99 now to upgrade my ye olde EWQLSO Gold (Kontakt) to Platinum, so I can then use it in the Opus player?


----------



## Geomir

SupremeFist said:


> Hmm, I wonder if it's worth spending $99 now to upgrade my ye olde EWQLSO Gold (Kontakt) to Platinum, so I can then use it in the Opus player?


If you do this, you will need 117 GB instead of 33 GB in your disk. If you are OK with that, then go for it! It's not only the OPUS Player benefit, but you are getting the close mics in a wet library (very useful).

But since you mentioned it, I wonder what the OPUS compatibility benefit will be with the older libraries. I mean, my Duduk on my EW Silk library will have the choice a Soft, Classic and Epic Mood?


----------



## Chungus

SupremeFist said:


> Hmm, I wonder if it's worth spending $99 now to upgrade my ye olde EWQLSO Gold (Kontakt) to Platinum, so I can then use it in the Opus player?


If this thread has shown us anything, it's that the answer is no. Don't upgrade anything, ever.


----------



## MauroPantin

Thinking out loud and only speculating based on the features that we know might be there, OPUS could do the following for things not Hollywood Orchestra:

- CC subscribers able to download instruments on demand
- Advanced, customizable key switching?
- Orchestrator?
- Purge function
- MIDI learn?

It would be awesome to have some walkthroughs or support videos detailing the new features. But I guess that if it's not in the cards then it's only 11 more days until it's hands on for a lot of people.


----------



## dcoscina

Some additional perspective here from me. I don’t mean to poo poo EW upcoming release. Especially on their thread. However, I’m at a point with sample libraries where they must present something dramatically better than what I have (which is admittedly a lot). I’ve balked on VSL stuff for the same reason. Hoopus, for those who are looking for the film score sound, would be a nice acquisition. I’m sure it’s got lot to offer. But a good majority of us on this forum have more sample libraries than active brain cells so it’s understandable that we can be a fickle bunch when a new library debuts which purports to be the second coming. Maybe it will be as more demos roll in but thus far I’m unconvinced.

the upgrade price is a bit puzzling, especially for those of us who bought Diamond in its earlier days- but then again we’ve had the chance to use it longer than late comers so I suppose it balances out.

I’m curious to hear more demos.

EDIT- oh dear... I just solo'd the brass on that demo. Trombone repeated figures have almost no definition- is there like negative 8RR??? Is this a factor of rushed programming on the part of the demo maker or lack of resources endemic to the actual library?? Probably not a great idea to be able to solo each of the sections because their weakness really shows through doing that. Wind runs are nice even when exposed but some of us need more than flourishes.

for the record, I wanted to like this release. I hoped it would usher in a new era of realistic expression from sample orchestra libraries... so far, I'm far from convinced..


----------



## Frederick

dzilizzi said:


> It's not?!?!?!? Well, darn it! I figured with the orchestrator, I would be an instant success at composing! A famous star - even an Oscar winner! I am so disappointed now! I hate EW! They are horrible people! And a horrible company!
> 
> All kidding aside, I hope they do post a walkthrough at least (many walkthroughs? It technically is more than one library and the orchestrator) before the 20th. Like it really matters. I might as well buy it now, since it would have to be pretty bad for me not to buy it.


It seems to me the orchestrator may be lacking in some areas compared to The Orchstra. (E.g. MIDI export? the arpegiators?) However, I like that you can have 5 instruments per section (Percussion, strings, woodwinds and brass) in the same instance. I think that's not possible with The Orchestra? You would need to create a rack in Cubase for that. No big deal, but still an extra. You can set which part of the keyboard is used per instrument. I don't remember seeing that in The Orchestra either. The big plus of course is that you have the whole Opus Orchestra connected to this orchestrator. Like 20 or 30 times the amount of samples The Orchestra uses. So no need to have MIDI export. I decided it was enough to purchase now.

Still glad I also have The Orchestra since that can be used if I want to have an orchestrator for my other orchestral samples.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

dcoscina said:


> But a good majority of us on this forum have more sample libraries than active brain cells so it’s understandable that we can be a fickle bunch when a new library debuts




I love this


----------



## chocobitz825

dcoscina said:


> But a good majority of us on this forum have more sample libraries than active brain cells so it’s understandable that we can be a fickle bunch when a new library debuts which purports to be the second coming.


But I only have 3 libraries..so how many brain cells does that leave me with!?!?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

chocobitz825 said:


> But I only have 3 libraries..so how many brain cells does that leave me with!?!?


Wel the mathematical sample library law denotes that:
For every single cell, the number of sample libraries is derived from that number to the power of 8000

So 1x divided by 2y minus 6v = the number of brain cells

1x / 2y - 6v = 0.0000000001

Well thereabouts


----------



## chocobitz825

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Wel the mathematical sample library law denotes that:
> For every single cell there twice the number of libraries
> 
> So 1x divided by 2y minus 6v = the number of brain cells
> 
> 1x / 2y - 6v = 0.0000000001
> 
> Well thereabouts


I know how to fix this! If I buy more libraries, I'll get more brain cells! GENIUS!


----------



## I like music

For one, I lost most of my brain cells thanks to this thread.


----------



## chocobitz825

I like music said:


> For one, I lost most of my brain cells thanks to this thread.


Opus might fix that for you


----------



## cqd

Just thinking here.. you'll surely be able to share presets for the orchestrator too..
Wonder will there be updates and stuff with more of them..


----------



## HardyP

Regarding all the grunting about pricing - didn‘t I tell you 7 months ago?!?

The more products you have, the less you will be rewarded. If you are starting from zero, and can wait until sales - THAT’s being rewarded.
So wait until some more demos&overviews are availlable, and then decide... but no need to play Chinese whispers, and introduce misinformation on questions which were allready settled 5 pages before...


----------



## Braveheart

I bought HO Diamond at around 130$. Paying 4X times more to upgrade is not appealing


----------



## Audio Birdi

From EW Support in regards to CC Gold vs CC Gold X mic positions for HW OPUS:

"The Gold libraries are: 
Brass - Main 
Harp - Mid 
Percussion - Main 
Strings - Main 
Woodwinds - Mid 
Solo Violin - Close 
Solo Cello - Close 

The Gold X adds: 
Brass- Close 
Harp - Close 
Percussion - Close 
Strings - Close 
Woodwinds - Close 
Solo Violin - Mid 
Solo Cello - Mid"


----------



## SupremeFist

Actually I just finished mixing a piece I've done with AROOF plus HOD for legato strings & brass and I realised... I don't need Opus. 

I presume this means I'm banned from VI-C. I'll get my coat...


----------



## dzilizzi

SupremeFist said:


> Actually I just finished mixing a piece I've done with AROOF plus HOD for legato strings & brass and I realised... I don't need Opus.
> 
> I presume this means I'm banned from VI-C. I'll get my coat...


Just this thread.


----------



## PedroPH

Braveheart said:


> I bought HO Diamond at around 130$. Paying 4X times more to upgrade is not appealing


How did you manage that?


----------



## Braveheart

PedroPH said:


> How did you manage that?


It was on sale for a short time at that price at JRRShop. I guess it was either an unnannounced flash sale or a price mistake.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Audio Birdi said:


> From EW Support in regards to CC Gold vs CC Gold X mic positions for HW OPUS:
> 
> "The Gold libraries are:
> Brass - Main
> Harp - Mid
> Percussion - Main
> Strings - Main
> Woodwinds - Mid
> Solo Violin - Close
> Solo Cello - Close
> 
> The Gold X adds:
> Brass- Close
> Harp - Close
> Percussion - Close
> Strings - Close
> Woodwinds - Close
> Solo Violin - Mid
> Solo Cello - Mid"


If the strings and brass are actually the main mic's for Gold, that is awesome.


----------



## Eptesicus

Braveheart said:


> It was on sale for a short time at that price at JRRShop. I guess it was either an unnannounced flash sale or a price mistake.



It was a pricing error, and i believe that JRRshop confirmed as much.


----------



## Batwaffel

lukevaljean said:


> i agree complete, i was willing to jump at this at 200$ maybe even 350 as an upgrade but 500? for the preorder? that's a slap in the face after this nightmare launch and i'm very dissapointed lol. I wish i didn't fomo into EWHO diamond. On the bright side NI has an cine-samples sale right now with a great package for 400$(cinebrass pro, descant horn, solo strings, woodwins pro + more) and spitfires spring sale is right around the corner with an great bundle i'm sure. Dang it's crazy what good customer sentiment gets people talking about your products, maybe EW will learn some day.


EW has been slapping us in the face for a long time. Remember when Composer Cloud came out and they did nothing for those of us $10,000+ deep in their ecosystem? They already had our money so why worry about us? After all, we'll just shell out another instant $500 when the next product comes out. They could have had a sliding discount on CC based on what we owned. That is not at all hard to calculate. They chose not to though.


----------



## dzilizzi

Batwaffel said:


> EW has been slapping us in the face for a long time. Remember when Composer Cloud came out and they did nothing for those of us $10,000+ deep in their ecosystem? They already had our money so why worry about us? After all, we'll just shell out another instant $500 when the next product comes out. They could have had a sliding discount on CC based on what we owned. That is not at all hard to calculate. They chose not to though.


They don't seem to actually keep track of what you own on their store website. It's like they are two different things - the store and the installer that does know what you own.


----------



## chocobitz825

Batwaffel said:


> EW has been slapping us in the face for a long time. Remember when Composer Cloud came out and they did nothing for those of us $10,000+ deep in their ecosystem? They already had our money so why worry about us? After all, we'll just shell out another instant $500 when the next product comes out. They could have had a sliding discount on CC based on what we owned. That is not at all hard to calculate. They chose not to though.


Hardly unique. I can’t think of any company that rewards you significantly for spending more with them other than maybe acustica audio and their coupons. It’s a shame that library developers don’t do this.


----------



## kitekrazy

SupremeFist said:


> Actually I just finished mixing a piece I've done with AROOF plus HOD for legato strings & brass and I realised... I don't need Opus.
> 
> I presume this means I'm banned from VI-C. I'll get my coat...


It just means your knowledge of using them are at a higher level.


----------



## dzilizzi

chocobitz825 said:


> Hardly unique. I can’t think of any company that rewards you significantly for spending more with them other than maybe acustica audio and their coupons. It’s a shame that library developers don’t do this.


OT and Spitfire both give discounts, especially if you are completing a bundle you partially own. I see it more with Spitfire in the upgrade to the pro version from a regular version. OT only has bundles.


----------



## Trash Panda

chocobitz825 said:


> Hardly unique. I can’t think of any company that rewards you significantly for spending more with them other than maybe acustica audio and their coupons. It’s a shame that library developers don’t do this.


Liquidsonics and Strezov are two more right off the top of my head that have deeper discounts the more you own. Probably others too.

CSS gives you a 30% discount on products based on what you own.


----------



## Frederick

chocobitz825 said:


> Hardly unique. I can’t think of any company that rewards you significantly for spending more with them other than maybe acustica audio and their coupons. It’s a shame that library developers don’t do this.


I have to disagree. VSL and Spitfire Audio for instance. The more money you've spent the more libraries you own and the more chances you have to hit the free update or free expansion.

I've been a VSL customer for about 6 months: I got BBO Zodiac for free (list price 395 Euro). A huge expansion to the Synchron-ized Woodwinds: Totally free (but worth 100 Euro). A free sordino expansion to BBO Andromeda and one to BBO Black Eye. And a free Ponticello bonus for the Synchron-ized Dimension Strings.

You were saying?


----------



## cqd

Trash Panda said:


> Liquidsonics and Strezov are two more right off the top of my head that have deeper discounts the more you own. Probably others too.
> 
> CSS gives you a 30% discount on products based on what you own.


But like, you get Hollywood orchestra for the price of CSS.. This full price pre order is the price of CSS and CSB..


----------



## SupremeFist

kitekrazy said:


> It just means your knowledge of using them are at a higher level.


You can think that as long as I don't post any examples... so I won't.


----------



## szczaw

If I remember correctly, MSS was further discounted for LASS owners.


----------



## Trash Panda

cqd said:


> But like, you get Hollywood orchestra for the price of CSS.. This full price pre order is the price of CSS and CSB..


You realize this is an apples to oranges comparison, right?


----------



## cqd

Trash Panda said:


> You realize this is an apples to oranges comparison, right?


Is it though?.. Hollywood Strings gives CSS a run for its money..as does the brass..

I'm just trying to give people a bit of perspective..


----------



## lettucehat

cqd said:


> Is it though?.. Hollywood Strings gives CSS a run for its money..as does the brass..
> 
> I'm just trying to give people a bit of perspective..


The issue was "is it common for developers to offer loyalty discounts" so yeah.

Anyway yes loyalty discounts are pretty common. And now we've got OT offering individual instruments. Cool to see EW is blazing a new trail with the throwback "bundle a bunch of shit together, they have to deal with it!" approach.


----------



## Trash Panda

cqd said:


> Is it though?.. Hollywood Strings gives CSS a run for its money..as does the brass..
> 
> I'm just trying to give people a bit of perspective..


If CSS repackaged their original content in a new player and forced existing users who aren’t interested in the new content to pay $500 to be able to use the new player, everyone but their most ardent fans would have a negative reaction as well.

I personally think $500 for a “discounted” pre-order upgrade is hilariously over the top.

At its cheapest, HWOD was around $380-$400, so upgrading to Opus for another $500 puts you around $900, which in comparison to the pre-order price for new customers is still a higher cost. EW marketing said you needed to buy HWO during their 60% off sale to get the best price on Opus. Based on the current pricing, the best price is for new customers.

Don’t take this as a complaint for me. I find the situation hilariously predictable, but I have the perspective on why those who bought in are mad now.


----------



## cqd

Trash Panda said:


> Don’t take this as a complaint for me. I find the situation hilariously predictable, but I have the perspective on why those who bought in are mad now.


Yeah..I can kind of see what you're saying..
But yes, this was completely predictable..

Anyone expecting a $99 was delusional pretty much..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

chocobitz825 said:


> Hardly unique. I can’t think of any company that rewards you significantly for spending more with them other than maybe acustica audio and their coupons. It’s a shame that library developers don’t do this.


FabFilter is a perfect example....the more you own, the deeper the discount, and they are sweet discounts.


----------



## Evans

I think some people are unhappy now because they wanted a bunch of new samples to play with (and might have been happy to pay $500 for a bunch of new samples), but EastWest thinks most of the new value is in the Orchestrator itself, which many of the unhappy people do not want.

They're upset that they _don't_ have GAS.


----------



## Trash Panda

cqd said:


> Yeah..I can kind of see what you're saying..
> But yes, this was completely predictable..
> 
> Anyone expecting a $99 was delusional pretty much..


I think most were expecting to at least have access to the Opus player with their existing library for a nominal fee since there was the previous precedent of Play 6 being a small upgrade cost from Play 5. Not having that option is likely what’s ruffling most feathers besides the misleading marketing.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cqd said:


> Is it though?.. Hollywood Strings gives CSS a run for its money..as does the brass..
> 
> I'm just trying to give people a bit of perspective..


Well, if you buy CSS at $399, you get Brass for $279...so that's already $678 (or $957 with woodwinds). With Opus, you're also solo strings, woodwinds, percussion and the orchestrator.


----------



## Tremendouz

Evans said:


> I think some people are unhappy now because they wanted a bunch of new samples to play with (and might have been happy to pay $500 for a bunch of new samples), but EastWest thinks most of the new value is in the Orchestrator itself, which many of the unhappy people do not want.
> 
> They're upset that they _don't_ have GAS.


I'd wager a lot are the opposite: they want the old HO to be upgraded to the new player to finally be able to enjoy basic features like accessing all articulations via keyswitches or proper purge functions.

Or maybe I'm just projecting cause that's all I ever wanted.


----------



## Evans

Tremendouz said:


> I'd wager a lot are the opposite: they want the old HO to be upgraded to the new player to finally be able to enjoy basic features like accessing all articulations via keyswitches or proper purge functions.
> 
> Or maybe I'm just ptojecting cause that's all I ever wanted.


You're totally right, and I did say "some people." A lot may be happy paying for a new engine for their current samples. But not $500+.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Tremendouz said:


> I'd wager a lot are the opposite: they want the old HO to be upgraded to the new player to finally be able to enjoy basic features like accessing all articulations via keyswitches or proper purge functions.


I would be perfectly happy with that, even for a reasonable upgrade fee.


----------



## Tremendouz

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I would be perfectly happy with that, even for a reasonable upgrade fee.


Yup, but if I'm not mistaken the old HO will be the *only* EW library that won't get ported to OPUS engine. It just smells like a 100% calculated business decision to not cannibalize OPUS sales rather than a technical limitation (could just use the new version as the base but leave out orchestrator and the new content).

I've personally decided to go with BBCSO and maybe upgrade to OPUS when it hits a deep, deep sale.


----------



## Batwaffel

chocobitz825 said:


> Hardly unique. I can’t think of any company that rewards you significantly for spending more with them other than maybe acustica audio and their coupons. It’s a shame that library developers don’t do this.


And Soundtoys and Fabfilter to add to the list others have posted. Oh and Plugin Alliance.


----------



## cqd

Tremendouz said:


> Yup, but if I'm not mistaken the old HO will be the *only* EW library that won't get ported to OPUS engine. It just smells like a 100% calculated business decision to not cannibalize OPUS sales rather than a technical limitation (could just use the new version as the base but leave out orchestrator and the new content).
> 
> I've personally decided to go with BBCSO and maybe upgrade to OPUS when it hits a deep, deep sale.


Looking at your pc specs I'm telling you now that's a mistake..


----------



## Tremendouz

cqd said:


> Looking at your pc specs I'm telling you now that's a mistake..


Forgot to mention it'd be Core which in total is fewer gigabytes than my RAM so should be fine.


----------



## cqd

Tremendouz said:


> Forgot to mention it'd be Core which in total is fewer gigabytes than my RAM so should be fine.


It's just the player does not play nice in Windows..


----------



## Tremendouz

cqd said:


> It's just the player does not play nice in Windows..


Really? I haven't had issues with the LABS stuff and Originals Epic Strings apart from lack of keyswitching and purge (but BBCSO Core can unload articulations).

What kind of issues? (I realize this is a topic for the BBCSO thread)


----------



## cqd

Yeah, ask there I suppose.. maybe it's gotten a bit better now..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Tremendouz said:


> Yup, but if I'm not mistaken the old HO will be the *only* EW library that won't get ported to OPUS engine.


Nick mentioned recently (in this thread) that the plan is to migrate all of the libraries over to the Opus engine, including HO.


----------



## Trash Panda

Tremendouz said:


> Really? I haven't had issues with the LABS stuff and Originals Epic Strings apart from lack of keyswitching and purge (but BBCSO Core can unload articulations).
> 
> What kind of issues? (I realize this is a topic for the BBCSO thread)


You’ll have to do a lot of track rendering/freezing in busy pieces with a lot of instances of the Spitfire player running. Otherwise you get audio drop outs, like sustain or release samples not playing. Super annoying.


----------



## lukevaljean

Trash Panda said:


> If CSS repackaged their original content in a new player and forced existing users who aren’t interested in the new content to pay $500 to be able to use the new player, everyone but their most ardent fans would have a negative reaction as well.
> 
> I personally think $500 for a “discounted” pre-order upgrade is hilariously over the top.
> 
> At its cheapest, HWOD was around $380-$400, so upgrading to Opus for another $500 puts you around $900, which in comparison to the pre-order price for new customers is still a higher cost. EW marketing said you needed to buy HWO during their 60% off sale to get the best price on Opus. Based on the current pricing, the best price is for new customers.
> 
> Don’t take this as a complaint for me. I find the situation hilariously predictable, but I have the perspective on why those who bought in are mad now.


Yes that's exactly it. It's feels like a rug pull -- the marketing team + customer service team not having consistent information (requirements to qualify for upgrade, engine availability to legacy users, pricing, release date, that "substantial" discount if we 'bought in' before the February deadline) due to malice or incompetence idk.

This has really damaged my perception of this company-- I can't fault them for delaying the release if they encountered a last minute hiccup necessary to deliver a better product but the lack of communication and shady marketing practices really rubbed me the wrong way. You would think if the prevailing sentiment of your company suddenly shifted to poor you'd make an effort to rectify that and maybe even extend an apology to those championing your release but I digress. The people calling the shots at the top of this company strike me as so far out of touch with their target audience they are oblivious or complacent.

I am legitimately angry with this situation and I don't think I've ever felt this way about a company. It's like when you have a bad experience at a restaurant and you want to go out of your way to tell all your friends and family to go somewhere else-- such a strange phenomenon never thought I'd be so passionate about something so irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.. first world problems!


----------



## Trax

There were conflicting answers as to what was cheaper, purchase new or upgrade IIRC. 

I have no use for The Orchestrator, but I can see why it was bundled. I'm excited for the demos even though it's a no from me at this price. Maybe eventually it won't be bundled. But for a fresh release why wouldn't they try and see how many people they can get to bite and fork over the cash.


----------



## AB3

Interesting post just above this one. I have EWQL Diamond (or however it is spelled), but not the original Hollywood. So, do I even qualify for the upgrade price? Or does only the original Hollywood Strings?


----------



## Tremendouz

AB3 said:


> Interesting post just above this one. I have EWQL Diamond (or however it is spelled), but not the original Hollywood. So, do I even qualify for the upgrade price? Or does only the original Hollywood Strings?


What do you mean by original?

If you have Hollywood Orchestra Diamond (brass, strings, woodwinds, percussion) either as a single purchase or purchased separately, you're eligible for the $500 upgrade. The solo instruments aren't needed to qualify.


----------



## Johnny

I think I read a few pages back, you have to have bought EWHO after a certain time- post the Opus announcement to even qualify... Or you are forced to buy all of EWHO again to get the GUI upgrade... Which is definitely a shame if this is even true... Maybe someone from EW can chime in? Because basically, from what they are telling us now, because I am not of the millennial generation, or newer to the industry as the market plummeted, and because I paid the premium of $4,497.00 before taxes for HW Orch, I am being punished for being of the "older" generation, and equally punished because I "had" to have these libraries at premium price upon launch date... Which is really weird honestly... Like the above posts, other companies seem to honor their legacy investors  Because without us in their earlier days? They wouldn't be able to live on a beach in Palm Springs right now.


----------



## Johnny

Tremendouz said:


> What do you mean by original?
> 
> If you have Hollywood Orchestra Diamond (brass, strings, woodwinds, percussion) either as a single purchase or purchased separately, you're eligible for the $500 upgrade. The solo instruments aren't needed to qualify.


Hmmm... Yeah, now I'm confused... Someone posted you couldn't upgrade to Opus unless you purchased EWHO post Opus announcement.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

So to summarize some recent themes from this thread:

I'm astonished they don't want to give us an update! Do they know who we are?!
Their marketing team sucks and are thieves. Oh, I can get a refund? Shh I'm making a point.
Nick Phoenix is being mean to me and I can't handle it.
I'm so angry at this company. I'll never buy anything from them again. But I'll periodically return to this thread to remind you of that.
They announced a new date! But the demo track sucks. I could write something better with Garritan Personal Orchestra with just my toes.
This update is too expensive for me. Let's band together and boycott them! That'll reduce the price! Huzzah!
I don't want 90% of what OPUS is. How dare they not allow me to buy the other 10% at a price I deem acceptable!
This will definitely be 50% off next month. Trust me. Also, buy GameStop.
Spitfire player sucks. What was the question again?


----------



## lettucehat

Johnny said:


> live on a beach in Palm Springs


----------



## lettucehat

ALittleNightMusic said:


> So to summarize some recent themes from this thread:
> 
> I'm astonished they don't want to give us an update! Do they know who we are?!
> Their marketing team sucks and are thieves. Oh, I can get a refund? Shh I'm making a point.
> Nick Phoenix is being mean to me and I can't handle it.
> I'm so angry at this company. I'll never buy anything from them again. But I'll periodically return to this thread to remind you of that.
> They announced a new date! But the demo track sucks. I could write something better with Garritan Personal Orchestra with just my toes.
> This update is too expensive for me. Let's band together and boycott them! That'll reduce the price! Huzzah!
> I don't want 90% of what OPUS is. How dare they not allow me to buy the other 10% at a price I deem acceptable!
> This will definitely be 50% off next month. Trust me. Also, buy GameStop.
> Spitfire player sucks. What was the question again?


You're right, people are saying those things.


----------



## Trax

Johnny said:


> I think I read a few pages back, you have to have bought EWHO after a certain time- post the Opus announcement to even qualify... Or you are forced to buy all of EWHO again to get the GUI upgrade... Which is definitely a shame if this is even true... Maybe someone from EW can chime in? Because basically, from what they are telling us now, because I am not of the millennial generation, or newer to the industry as the market plummeted, and because I paid the premium of $4,497.00 before taxes for HW Orch, I am being punished for being of the "older" generation, and equally punished because I "had" to have these libraries at premium price upon launch date... Which is really weird honestly... Like the above posts, other companies seem to honor their legacy investors  Because without us in their earlier days? They wouldn't be able to live on a beach in Palm Springs right now.



There's a lesson in there. You purchased a Betamax or DVD player when they first came out and now it's all super cheap and no one gave you a discount for being an early adopter. But we who have it on the cheap salute you.

In war don't be the first to charge.


----------



## Dex

Johnny said:


> I think I read a few pages back, you have to have bought EWHO after a certain time- post the Opus announcement to even qualify... Or you are forced to buy all of EWHO again to get the GUI upgrade... Which is definitely a shame if this is even true... Maybe someone from EW can chime in? Because basically, from what they are telling us now, because I am not of the millennial generation, or newer to the industry as the market plummeted, and because I paid the premium of $4,497.00 before taxes for HW Orch, I am being punished for being of the "older" generation, and equally punished because I "had" to have these libraries at premium price upon launch date... Which is really weird honestly... Like the above posts, other companies seem to honor their legacy investors  Because without us in their earlier days? They wouldn't be able to live on a beach in Palm Springs right now.


No, you qualify for the $500 upgrade.


----------



## Johnny

Trax said:


> There's a lesson in there. You purchased a Betamax or DVD player when they first came out and now it's all super cheap and no one gave you a discount for being an early adopter. But we who have it on the cheap salute you.
> 
> In war don't be the first to charge.


The founders of a pyramid that died during its construction- crushed between the very stone bricks of its formation. The pyramid remains today as a reminder of the lives lost for its creation!  ~CyberOpus2077~


----------



## chocobitz825

Jeremy Spencer said:


> FabFilter is a perfect example....the more you own, the deeper the discount, and they are sweet discounts.


I think this speaks to difference in discounts. I see far more discounts of this type with effects plugins than I do with libraries.

for libraries, a discount or adjustment of price when you own part of a set is common. Crossgrades (related to product not amounts spent) and upgrades are common, but I don’t see, in my experience, the kind of across the board loyalty discounts I see from effects makers where your $10,000 investment in their products overall leads to 30% other products, or $15,000 leads to 35% off.
I’ve got quite a bit from strezov and spitfire and maybe the types of deals they’re offering just never stood out or I need to check my spam box. I get the “ you bought chamber strings so here’s x% off the new studio strings”, but I’ve never gotten the feeling of a significant discount based on the amount total I’ve spent with any developer (especially 8dio...😒)


----------



## Johnny

Dex said:


> No, you qualify for the $500 upgrade.


Oh nice!


----------



## AB3

Tremendouz said:


> What do you mean by original?
> 
> If you have Hollywood Orchestra Diamond (brass, strings, woodwinds, percussion) either as a single purchase or purchased separately, you're eligible for the $500 upgrade. The solo instruments aren't needed to qualify.


Sorry. This is what I have: 
EWQLSO PLATINUM COMPLETE PLUS 24-BIT AND 16-BIT (194GB) 
and apparently no upgrade is offered for that product.
(By the way, I did not mean to yell it - the capital letters were a copy from the website.)


----------



## Johnny

AB3 said:


> Sorry. This is what I have:
> EWQLSO PLATINUM COMPLETE PLUS 24-BIT AND 16-BIT (194GB)
> and apparently no upgrade is offered for that product.


Oh, yes, I believe Opus is supporting mainly the Hollywood series content, anyone can correct me if I am wrong. I heard buzz about some legacy products that will be supported but not all.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Johnny said:


> Oh, yes, I believe Opus is supporting mainly the Hollywood series content, anyone can correct me if I am wrong. I heard buzz about some legacy products that will be supported but not all.


The actual Opus collection, yes. But the original HO is not supported.


----------



## hdsmile

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Let's band together and boycott them!


I've not seen that anyone wrote this, but it looks promising enough for the HOD owners!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

hdsmile said:


> I've not seen that anyone wrote this, but it looks promising enough for the HOD owners!


Weren’t you the one a few pages back saying we should do a poll so EW can see how many people oppose the price?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

It comes with "customized key-switches" guys.  Sorry i couldn't resist. I'm gonna need more than that to make the switch. But the script language sounds interesting. Somebody said there's a demo somewhere?


----------



## Dex

AB3 said:


> Sorry. This is what I have:
> EWQLSO PLATINUM COMPLETE PLUS 24-BIT AND 16-BIT (194GB)
> and apparently no upgrade is offered for that product.
> (By the way, I did not mean to yell it - the capital letters were a copy from the website.)


Correct, no upgrade is offered for that product. What you have is Symphonic Orchestra. OPUS is based on Hollywood Orchestra, which is an entirely different product that came later.


----------



## hdsmile

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Weren’t you the one a few pages back saying we should do a poll so EW can see how many people oppose the price?


well, that was just for poll...
Buying libraries is like a drug and it's clear that many are already shaking, but I'm above that and will not succumb to the hype! Sorry but that's not an update, this is just a flamin' nut house!


----------



## AB3

Dex said:


> Correct, no upgrade is offered for that product. What you have is Symphonic Orchestra. OPUS is based on Hollywood Orchestra, which is an entirely different product that came later.


Still could have offered a discount. It is not like I did not purchase a major string library from them. Anyway, I am happy with Vienna for my needs and with no serious discount, I have no motivation.


----------



## gst98

AB3 said:


> Still could have offered a discount. It is not like I did not purchase a major string library from them. Anyway, I am happy with Vienna for my needs and with no serious discount, I have no motivation.



Well that would be a cross grade, and they are much less common


----------



## lukevaljean

ALittleNightMusic said:


> So to summarize some recent themes from this thread:
> 
> I'm astonished they don't want to give us an update! Do they know who we are?!
> Their marketing team sucks and are thieves. Oh, I can get a refund? Shh I'm making a point.
> Nick Phoenix is being mean to me and I can't handle it.
> I'm so angry at this company. I'll never buy anything from them again. But I'll periodically return to this thread to remind you of that.
> They announced a new date! But the demo track sucks. I could write something better with Garritan Personal Orchestra with just my toes.
> This update is too expensive for me. Let's band together and boycott them! That'll reduce the price! Huzzah!
> I don't want 90% of what OPUS is. How dare they not allow me to buy the other 10% at a price I deem acceptable!
> This will definitely be 50% off next month. Trust me. Also, buy GameStop.
> Spitfire player sucks. What was the question again?


Like it or not being facetious is in poor taste, peoples opinions are valid. Everyone is in a different position financially. Sure when you're a content producer and you can wipe your ass with the amount of money being asking for you could care less but 500$ is nothing to scoff at for many people. Luxury marketing falls apart when brand loyalty is destroyed. But go ahead and buy in, it could be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Just don’t forget the massive amount of yellow tape it comes boxed with.

GME to the moon


----------



## dzilizzi

Actually, from what it sounds like, Opus player should work with EWQLSO Play version. (Not the Kontakt one) They said it would eventually work on all Play libraries, right? Just not EWHO because they added content and an orchestrator.


----------



## Geomir

dzilizzi said:


> Actually, from what it sounds like, Opus player should work with EWQLSO Play version. (Not the Kontakt one) They said it would eventually work on all Play libraries, right? Just not EWHO because they added content and an orchestrator.


This is the thing that puzzles me more than everything else. I mean, this is a very weird decision, or it's just something that it's not still explained very well.

Let's take for granted that the Opus Player will not offer the orchestrator for the old libraries (i.e. EWQLSO or EW Ra) because it's was stated that its value is $299.

But if they can make Opus (just the Player) compatible with all the older libraries, why couldn't they make it also for EWHO? Without the new features of course.

How weird it will be to load my old EWQLSO with the new Opus Player, but for my newer EWHO I will still have to use Play 6?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

lukevaljean said:


> Like it or not being facetious is in poor taste, peoples opinions are valid. Everyone is in a different position financially. Sure when you're a content producer and you can wipe your ass with the amount of money being asking for you could care less but 500$ is nothing to scoff at for many people. Luxury marketing falls apart when brand loyalty is destroyed. But go ahead and buy in, it could be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Just don’t forget the massive amount of yellow tape it comes boxed with.
> 
> GME to the moon


Capitalism is simple. Companies sell products at the price they deem appropriate. Customers buy products at the price they deem appropriate.

So either buy it or don't. There's no yellow tape.


----------



## cqd

No way SO is going to go opus..


----------



## gst98

Geomir said:


> This is the thing that puzzle me more than everything else. I mean, this is a very weird decision, or it's just something that it's not still explained very well.
> 
> Let's take for granted that the Opus Player will not offer the orchestrator for the old libraries (i.e. EWQLSO or EW Ra) because it's was stated that its value is $299.
> 
> But if they can make Opus (just the Player) compatible with all the older libraries, why couldn't they make it also for EWHO? Without the new features of course.
> 
> How weird it will be to load my old EWQLSO with the new Opus Player, but for my newer EWHO I will still have to use Play 6?



Well you would expect that porting everything to the new player will require a lot of work and bug fixing. This probably contributed to the delay too. But you can think of it more as they are doing this upgrade to the new player for free.

The HWO, is more complex than any other EW library, and integrating it with the orchestrator (I assume things like Ra will not work with it) will be much more work. So they are changing for the upgrade, which is essentially funding the free upgrade for all the other libraries. 

Not to mention that EW probably realise that a customer who just owns Ra or Silk, is not going to be able to justify a paid upgrade for a player that will offer limited new functionality.


----------



## szczaw

Eat cabbage if you have to and get it, because it's the only way to COMPOSE A BLOCKBUSTER SOUNDTRACK IN SECONDS.


----------



## dzilizzi

szczaw said:


> Eat cabbage if you have to and get it, because it's the only way to COMPOSE A BLOCKBUSTER SOUNDTRACK IN SECONDS.


No, no, no. I've already been told it won't work. You have to have actual talent to make a blockbuster soundtrack. Don't get me all excited again. 

But maybe for a TV show or a commercial. Oh wait! That guy that buys tracks to sell to other Youtubers. Yeah. After buying this, you can make BLOCKBUSTER YouTube Soundtracks!

Do they give awards for that?


----------



## Trash Panda

dzilizzi said:


> No, no, no. I've already been told it won't work. You have to have actual talent to make a blockbuster soundtrack. Don't get me all excited again.
> 
> But maybe for a TV show or a commercial. Oh wait! That guy that buys tracks to sell to other Youtubers. Yeah. After buying this, you can make BLOCKBUSTER YouTube Soundtracks!
> 
> Do they give awards for that?


I hear the Tubies are bigger than the Grammies these days.


----------



## szczaw

dzilizzi said:


> No, no, no. I've already been told it won't work. You have to have actual talent to make a blockbuster soundtrack. Don't get me all excited again.


But they put that in caps ! Where's my credit card !


----------



## lukevaljean

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Capitalism is simple. Companies sell products at the price they deem appropriate. Customers buy products at the price they deem appropriate.
> 
> So either buy it or don't. There's no yellow tape.


Your entitled to that belief, perhaps I could ask you just to not mock and mitigate other people when they see the carrot dangling in front of their faces and call attention to it as that information is valuable to some people. I'm just glad not every company shares your shrewd definition of business. I digress.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

lukevaljean said:


> Your entitled to that belief, perhaps I could ask you just to not mock and mitigate other people when they see the carrot dangling in front of their faces and call attention to it as that information is valuable to some people. I'm just glad not every company shares your shrewd definition of business. I digress.


It's a fact, not a belief. Every business operates by the same principles. Except the bankrupt ones.

I don't know what your point is on this thread. OPUS too expensive? Don't buy it. OPUS doesn't have what you want? Don't buy it. OPUS sounds like shit? Don't buy it. Hate EW for some reason? Don't buy it.

Pretty simple. There are a lot of "carrots" in the world. Nobody is entitled to any of them.


----------



## cqd

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It's a fact, not a belief. Every business operates by the same principles. Except the bankrupt ones.
> 
> I don't know what your point is on this thread. OPUS too expensive? Don't buy it. OPUS doesn't have what you want? Don't buy it. OPUS sounds like shit? Don't buy it. Hate EW for some reason? Don't buy it.
> 
> Pretty simple. There are a lot of "carrots" in the world. Nobody is entitled to any of them.


This is a bit too reasonable for this thread I think, ALNM..

It's 2021.. People have a right to be offended by too much/lack of hype and pricing of non compulsory purchases..

Their feelings matter..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Pretty simple. There are a lot of "carrots" in the world. Nobody is entitled to any of them.


And many took that carrot in the form of an expensive subscription months ago...with the announcement of a false release date. So how many other companies in the sample world have done this?


----------



## cqd

Jeremy Spencer said:


> And many took that carrot in the form of an expensive subscription months ago...with the announcement of a false release date. So how many other companies in the sample world have done this?


Dude.. people are complaining they signed up for the subscription for half price for two months..


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Jeremy Spencer said:


> And many took that carrot in the form of an expensive subscription months ago...with the announcement of a false release date. So how many other companies in the sample world have done this?


How many times does it need to be repeated that EW is giving refunds for this???


----------



## Evans

ALittleNightMusic said:


> How many times does it need to be repeated that EW is giving refunds for this???


There's a whole lot getting repeated on both sides.

I just want more audio examples and a clear understanding of what the newly recorded content is and how much old patches were modified. 

Anyone? Help?


----------



## cqd

Evans said:


> There's a whole lot getting repeated on both sides.
> 
> I just want more audio examples and a clear understanding of what the newly recorded content is and how much old patches were modified.
> 
> Anyone? Help?


New first violins..new woodwind sections..new trombones..new trumpets..new combined string/brass/wind ensembles..


----------



## lettucehat

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It's a fact, not a belief. Every business operates by the same principles. Except the bankrupt ones.
> 
> I don't know what your point is on this thread. OPUS too expensive? Don't buy it. OPUS doesn't have what you want? Don't buy it. OPUS sounds like shit? Don't buy it. Hate EW for some reason? Don't buy it.
> 
> Pretty simple. There are a lot of "carrots" in the world. Nobody is entitled to any of them.


Don't like the discussion taking place here? Don't read the thread. Wow this is easy!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

lettucehat said:


> Don't like the discussion taking place here? Don't read the thread. Wow this is easy!


Shh, the adults are trying to have a conversation that's actually relevant.

Getting back to the actual topic, EW confirmed there will be walkthroughs posted next week, including one on the Orchestrator. Hoping for more demo tracks early in the week as well.


----------



## szczaw

How about a discount for a good behavior on this forum ?


----------



## lukevaljean

Not everything is black and white. Companies have a modicum of customer service for a reason. Just because you don't value customer service and want to distill everything to binary doesn't mean everyone shares your opinion. 

And yes, people have a right to be offended by deceptive business practices. That's not unreasonable. That's why there's tort law.

If you can't have empathy and understand why that would make someone angry I can't help you. I can imagine so many scenarios in the months leading up to this where someone could have been screwed by purchasing upgrades/crossgrades in anticipation of saving money only to be relegated to "you thought you'd save money? yeah we lied. don't like it? too bad." That mentality is cancer in life and in business.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> How many times does it need to be repeated that EW is giving refunds for this???


Of course....but if no one had asked, I doubt they would have automatically given a refund.


----------



## chocobitz825

szczaw said:


> How about a discount for a good behavior on this forum ?


I'd never qualify for that...:(


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cqd said:


> Dude.. people are complaining they signed up for the subscription for half price for two months..


Dude. Dude. Dudeburger. They signed up in December, that was the "do it now or never" campaign. So that's 4 months at $30 a month (the "sale" price for CC Plus). I'm sure you wouldn't mind losing $120. Sure, they could ask for a refund, but without communication it was BS.


----------



## chocobitz825

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Dude. Dude. Dudeburger. They signed up in December, that was the "do it now or never" campaign. So that's 4 months at $30 a month (the "sale" price for CC Plus). I'm sure you wouldn't mind losing $120. Sure, they could ask for a refund, but without communication it was BS.


this is all news to me...but did the people who paid for the subscription not get access to the subscription service during those 4 months?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

chocobitz825 said:


> this is all news to me...but did the people who paid for the subscription not get access to the subscription service during those 4 months?


I'm sure they did, but it doesn't help much if you were signing up specifically to use Opus back in January.


----------



## cqd

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I'm sure they did, but it doesn't help much if you were signing up specifically to use Opus back in January.


Yeah, but were they not signing up for it for half price?..and it was three months late..so if they just signed up now for full price they'll be up mid May.. 

Look, no one was happy it was delayed..but its here now..


----------



## Audio Birdi

Caved and signed up to the subscription in December. The reason being that there were a fair few libraries from EW I wanted to get in future. But figured I may as-well subscribe since it was a great price; even though I have most of their libraries already. Part of it was to do with it being cheaper than the most-likely high upgrade price for HWO Opus in January, which would have happened for sure. It has happened which was no surprise . EW's own philosophy, which Doug mentioned in an interview with Akash Thakkar during 2020 on YouTube. .

If you want the new library now, then buy it now at the full intro / upgrade price. As those that need it to do work, will buy things no matter what the price is, if they feel it is a tool that will be most-useful to them. If there isn't a necessary need for it, then wait for a sale later-on. Which is fair enough.

I'm looking forward to HWO Opus as well as the Opus player once it's out. I do hope it has 16 MIDI channels with 16 stereo / 32 mono outs finally within the player! Custom keyswitch patches will significantly reduce the amount of instance needed in my template too!

I also hope that the "edit". "design" and "publish" sections on the Opus player shown in the January trailer aren't just for internal use, and possibly could be available to us in future, which would be super cool!


----------



## chocobitz825

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I'm sure they did, but it doesn't help much if you were signing up specifically to use Opus back in January.


well i mean, it doesnt help if you wanted to use Opus, but sounds pretty clear that the conditions of the deal are that you are paying for the subscription, which will include opus...I’m not totally clear on how people were cheated out of their money on a subscription they paid for, and are still getting, and are able to use now...


----------



## Lewis Emblack

I signed up to monthly paid CC+ specifically for OPUS after it being advertised as, and confirmed by support to be, the cheapest you would be able to get it. Originally I was okay with the delay if it was only for a few months as I know these things can happen. However, they then put it on offer for cheaper in the spring sale so I contacted support about it and they sorted me out, no issue at all, so all is good.
Yes, you have access to their entire library, but I had no interest in any but a couple, and have other libraries that cover those bases anyway. Now I have them I will inevitably have a play, but for people to suggest that access to the whole CC is reason to not be annoyed completely ignores the fact that many of us already have TB's of libraries already.
To those still upset about signing up to CC early - get in touch with support, they are very helpful.


----------



## chocobitz825

StarfireBlack said:


> I signed up to monthly paid CC+ specifically for OPUS after it being advertised as, and confirmed by support to be, the cheapest you would be able to get it. Originally I was okay with the delay if it was only for a few months as I know these things can happen. However, they then put it on offer for cheaper in the spring sale so I contacted support about it and they sorted me out, no issue at all, so all is good.
> Yes, you have access to their entire library, but I had no interest in any but a couple, and have other libraries that cover those bases anyway. Now I have them I will inevitably have a play, but for people to suggest that access to the whole CC is reason to not be annoyed completely ignores the fact that many of us already have TB's of libraries already.
> To those still upset about signing up to CC early - get in touch with support, they are very helpful.


Well I’m glad they worked it out for you.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

I personally do not see the point of complaining on a forum as it doesn't help anything. It seems to be a knee jerk response to everything these days - get on social media and rant, instead of just contacting whoever and seeing if you can remedy it. It's not even like I had to beg for anything, just pointed out the issue. I'm pretty sure that if someone bought the pre-order and then on release they dropped it $100 people would be annoyed, so same situation.


----------



## BasariStudios

There was a time when EW had some credibility
but now all is left is a bunch of basically thieves
without any credibility or dignity. Yes, go ahead
and hang me but it does not affect my life.
Did they win anything? Yes they did, they made
the money and laugh at people like me (losers)
now but that is all right too, some of us if not all
still have purchasing power and can vote with 
their wallets.


----------



## BasariStudios

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Shh, the adults are trying to have a conversation that's actually relevant.


Is EW fiving you an OPUS NFR for constantly
trying to defend them or you think only your
opinion matters? It is not up to you to tell us
BUY IT OR DON'T BUY IT. Your opinion is as
worthless as mine and everyone else.
Some of us have invested money and have
reasons to act the way we do or whatever.
I spend 3-4k every single month on Libraries,
Eurorack, Plugins and Synths...500$ is pocket
change compared to that but there is also
Principal, Morals and Loyalty too.
I don't care about giving them the 500 bucks
but they do not deserve even a penny.
I'd rather go gamble those 500 bucks.


----------



## BasariStudios

StarfireBlack said:


> I personally do not see the point of complaining on a forum as it doesn't help anything. It seems to be a knee jerk response to everything these days - get on social media and rant, instead of just contacting whoever and seeing if you can remedy it. It's not even like I had to beg for anything, just pointed out the issue. I'm pretty sure that if someone bought the pre-order and then on release they dropped it $100 people would be annoyed, so same situation.


Maybe not on a large scale but if i or all of us can
turn at least 1 person away from buying it,
Mission Completed.


----------



## BasariStudios

chocobitz825 said:


> which will include opus...on a subscription they paid for


Just read your post one more time and you will
find your answer there...


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

BasariStudios said:


> Is EW fiving you an OPUS NFR for constantly
> trying to defend them or you think only your
> opinion matters? It is not up to you to tell us
> BUY IT OR DON'T BUY IT. Your opinion is as
> worthless as mine and everyone else.
> Some of us have invested money and have
> reasons to act the way we do or whatever.
> I spend 3-4k every single month on Libraries,
> Eurorack, Plugins and Synths...500$ is pocket
> change compared to that but there is also
> Principal, Morals and Loyalty too.
> I don't care about giving them the 500 bucks
> but they do not deserve even a penny.
> I'd rather go gamble those 500 bucks.


You really like telling us all how much you spend. Are you trying to compensate for something?

I look forward to your next post in this thread which I imagine will let us know you won't be spending any money on Opus.


----------



## chocobitz825

BasariStudios said:


> Just read your post one more time and you will
> find your answer there...


Not really. Whether your intention was to sign up only for opus, the service itself is for everything EW has now, and will eventually include opus. People paid for a discount on the subscription service. I don’t see the problem. People paid for a discounted subscription service and immediately got said service. Now opus has been announced and the promise that they’d have access to it at cheaper than the upgrade price still stands.


----------



## Evans

BasariStudios said:


> It is not up to you to tell us
> BUY IT OR DON'T BUY IT.





BasariStudios said:


> but if i or all of us can
> turn at least 1 person away from buying it,
> Mission Completed.


Wat


----------



## Lewis Emblack

BasariStudios said:


> Maybe not on a large scale but if i or all of us can
> turn at least 1 person away from buying it,
> Mission Completed.


I was referring to people that had signed up to CC and felt robbed. I agree the situation in general is not a good look, but complaining about the situation when it can be resolved with one message is quite pointless, which is why I keep advising people to get in touch with support if they are of the same situation.


----------



## BasariStudios

StarfireBlack said:


> I was referring to people that had signed up to CC and felt robbed.


Why shouldn't they feel robbed? You are saying but they
had a working Subscription even though OPUS was not
released, they use the other instruments. That doesn't
even make ANY sense at all. Some people DO NOT use
the other Instruments, they signed up JUST FOR OPUS.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

BasariStudios said:


> Why shouldn't they feel robbed? You are saying but they
> had a working Subscription even though OPUS was not
> released, they use the other instruments. That doesn't
> even make ANY sense at all. Some people DO NOT use
> the other Instruments, they signed up JUST FOR OPUS.


Erm...I have not said that at all. Read back a few messages, I AM one of those people that just bought it for OPUS


----------



## chocobitz825

BasariStudios said:


> Why shouldn't they feel robbed? You are saying but they
> had a working Subscription even though OPUS was not
> released, they use the other instruments. That doesn't
> even make ANY sense at all. Some people DO NOT use
> the other Instruments, they signed up JUST FOR OPUS.


i think this is aimed at me?...whether you signed up JUST for opus..the terms of the subscription is for everything + opus....it just seems like a bum gamble on a flawed concept. Unless I‘m remember advertising wrong, and they said that this was a subscription price for Opus only...


----------



## BasariStudios

chocobitz825 said:


> i think this is aimed at me?...whether you signed up JUST for opus..the terms of the subscription is for everything + opus....it just seems like a bum gamble on a flawed concept. Unless I‘m remember advertising wrong, and they said that this was a subscription price for Opus only...


Yes, they said that...and that is why its wrong.
You bringing up the terms, that does not make
sense either...the people who signed up do not
care for that...all they care for is they were robbed
and they paid for something falsely advertised
which is the case in here.


----------



## BasariStudios

StarfireBlack said:


> Erm...I have not said that at all. Read back a few messages, I AM one of those people that just bought it for OPUS


Then i apologize, maybe i have misunderstood.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

chocobitz825 said:


> i think this is aimed at me?...whether you signed up JUST for opus..the terms of the subscription is for everything + opus....it just seems like a bum gamble on a flawed concept. Unless I‘m remember advertising wrong, and they said that this was a subscription price for Opus only...


I do agree with you in regards to what you actually sign up for, but even with that perspective they said it was the cheapest then offered it for cheaper 2 months later, which falls into false advertising. If EW felt differently I assume they wouldn't have done anything for me. I'm just wanting to promote a constructive way to remedy the situation (which is easily done) instead of just dismissing peoples complaints as this thread it full of negativity as is (and rightly so in some cases)


----------



## cqd

StarfireBlack said:


> I do agree with you in regards to what you actually sign up for, but even with that perspective they said it was the cheapest then offered it for cheaper 2 months later, which falls into false advertising. If EW felt differently I assume they wouldn't have done anything for me. I'm just wanting to promote a constructive way to remedy the situation (which is easily done) instead of just dismissing peoples complaints as this thread it full of negativity as is (and rightly so in some cases)


That's classic East west though..


----------



## BasariStudios

StarfireBlack said:


> I'm just wanting to promote a constructive way to remedy the situation


I don't think there is a way for that, too late, lol.
One group of people was robbed, the other is
laughing...the third one is making soup, the fourth
one thinks EW will give them NFR for defending and
so on...it is a worse mess than Jambalaya.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

BasariStudios said:


> Then i apologize, maybe i have misunderstood.


I am agreeing with you, just trying to say that those who do feel robbed don't need to as if they get in contact with support they will sort things out as they did for me 👍🏻


----------



## Lewis Emblack

cqd said:


> That's classic East west though..


I don't disagree with you


----------



## chocobitz825

StarfireBlack said:


> I do agree with you in regards to what you actually sign up for, but even with that perspective they said it was the cheapest then offered it for cheaper 2 months later, which falls into false advertising. If EW felt differently I assume they wouldn't have done anything for me. I'm just wanting to promote a constructive way to remedy the situation (which is easily done) instead of just dismissing peoples complaints as this thread it full of negativity as is (and rightly so in some cases)


I think you're presenting a completely rational option for people. I can see signing up for one price, and then seeing a cheaper price soon after and wanting EW to make some adjustment. That's fair, within a certain amount of time. What I disagree with is the idea that people got robbed because Opus didnt come out immediately. 



BasariStudios said:


> I don't think there is a way for that, too late, lol.
> One group of people was robbed, the other is
> laughing...the third one is making soup, the fourth
> one thinks EW will give them NFR for defending and
> so on...it is a worse mess than Jambalaya.


I feel like its best practice not to buy a subscription to over 40,000 professional quality virtual instruments, when you only want one.....especially when the company advertises that services like this....


----------



## Lewis Emblack

BasariStudios said:


> I don't think there is a way for that, too late, lol.
> One group of people was robbed, the other is
> laughing...the third one is making soup, the fourth
> one thinks EW will give them NFR for defending and
> so on...it is a worse mess than Jambalaya.


As I say, if people get in contact with EW Support with their grievances it will be resolved, so then they won't have to feel robbed. As I stated in a post prior to your first this morning, I was particularly frustrated with the false advertising on price and did something about it instead of coming into this clusterf*** to complain, and it was resolved. With all of their communication and other issues, their support is top notch.




chocobitz825 said:


> I think you're presenting a completely rational option for people. I can see signing up for one price, and then seeing a cheaper price soon after and wanting EW to make some adjustment. That's fair, within a certain amount of time. What I disagree with is the idea that people got robbed because Opus didnt come out immediately.


I will add that the initial promotion on the OPUS page made no mention of the other libraries, just stated it was the cheapest way to get OPUS. I knew what I was signing up for, but I can see how others may have gotten confused into thinking it was just for OPUS. Again, their advertising runs the very fine line of being false advertising, which is obviously how some feel. If they did know all instruments were included then I totally agree with what you are saying (which is why it was only at the point of the Spring sale I got miffed.)


----------



## chocobitz825

StarfireBlack said:


> As I say, if people get in contact with EW Support with their grievances it will be resolved, so then they won't have to feel robbed. As I stated in a post prior to your first this morning, I was particularly frustrated with the false advertising on price and did something about it instead of coming into this clusterf*** to complain, and it was resolved. With all of their communication and other issues, their support is top notch.
> 
> 
> 
> I will add that the initial promotion on the OPUS page made no mention of the other libraries, just stated it was the cheapest way to get OPUS. I knew what I was signing up for, but I can see how others may have gotten confused into thinking it was just for OPUS. Again, their advertising runs the very fine line of being false advertising, which is obviously how some feel. If they did know all instruments were included then I totally agree with what you are saying (which is why it was only at the point of the Spring sale I got miffed.


fair enough. I don't recall the ad because I was already on CC at the time. I've since canceled the subscription because I found I only really used pop brass...everything else I have more favourable options. I'm not a fan of EW engines and practices, but I have to say that CC has massive value for many and I would think that Opus can only add to that. I hope people follow up on the information you've provided, and I sincerely hope people enjoy Opus. I know I would not, but for those that love what EW provides, I only wish the best.


----------



## AB3

gst98 said:


> Well that would be a cross grade, and they are much less common


I do not think it is a cross grade when it is from the same company. I have seen companies offer different upgrade prices depending what version someone has. So EWEQSL or however it is spelled, was their top of the line string library at the time. Then came Hollywood Strings, which I am not even sure was better. But if they want me to try out this new engine - it is not worth it for me.


----------



## Tremendouz

AB3 said:


> I do not think it is a cross grade when it is from the same company.


I've never seen a crossgrade that was not from the same company. Crossgrade usually means something like going from EZDrummer to Superior Drummer (bigger and better than EZDrummer in every way) which are both Toontrack products.


----------



## dzilizzi

Tremendouz said:


> I've never seen a crossgrade that was not from the same company. Crossgrade usually means something like going from EZDrummer to Superior Drummer (bigger and better than EZDrummer in every way) which are both Toontrack products.


I crossgrade from ProTools to Cubase. And to Studio One. Well, technically I did it from Sonar Platinum right before Sonar became the free Cakewalk. Great deal too!


----------



## Trax

AB3 said:


> So EWEQSL or however it is spelled, was their top of the line string library at the time. Then came Hollywood Strings, which I am not even sure was better.


What makes you not sure?


----------



## Michael Antrum

dzilizzi said:


> I crossgrade from ProTools to Cubase. And to Studio One. Well, technically I did it from Sonar Platinum right before Sonar became the free Cakewalk. Great deal too!


You can addd Finale, Sibelius and Dorico to that list too......


----------



## jamieboo

AB3 said:


> I do not think it is a cross grade when it is from the same company. I have seen companies offer different upgrade prices depending what version someone has. So EWEQSL or however it is spelled, was their top of the line string library at the time. Then came Hollywood Strings, which I am not even sure was better. But if they want me to try out this new engine - it is not worth it for me.


I think when it is different versions of the same product it's an upgrade, but we're talking here about two totally different products (similar concept - full orchestral library, but different product). You had EWQLSO (East West Quantum Leap Symphony Orchestra), Hollywood Orchestra was not technically an upgrade of Symphony Orchestra, it was an entirely new product recorded and built from scratch. So as a different product any pathway to the newer product would be a crossgrade. I guess.


----------



## BasariStudios

How did EWQLSO come up in this?
It has NOTHING to do with either or.
Are people that naive? Hahahahaha
They don't even take care of EW HO
Customers that has EVERYTHING 
To do with this and you expect they
Wi do something about EWQLSO?
LOL


----------



## Weyenberg Creative

BasariStudios said:


> Why shouldn't they feel robbed? You are saying but they
> had a working Subscription even though OPUS was not
> released, they use the other instruments. That doesn't
> even make ANY sense at all. Some people DO NOT use
> the other Instruments, they signed up JUST FOR OPUS.


Now hold up a minute... you spend all that every month and you've got your panties in a bunch over $120 that you could likely get refunded just by talking to the customer service team at EW? I think your pearl-clutching is a bit... ridiculous?


----------



## Evans

Is it at all feasible that we acknowledge some things and move on?

The push for subs and subsequent last-minute delay was, at a minimum, disappointing.


It's not kind to call people "idiots" for buying into the hype and subscribing without knowing much about Opus. It's kinda what "marketing folk" do in a whole lot of industries.


Some people did just subscribe for Opus. Heck, I almost did, just to have a low cost "trial" of sorts, despite having no interest in the rest of the Composer Cloud.


The information available on Opus is confusing, such as what's _precisely _new (not just what we know from posts from a year ago on VI-Control).


We pretty much all want more content - walkthroughs, audio demos, whatever.


The way they present the audio demo on the web site - with the ability to solo tracks - is _badass_.


It is not kind to make an assessment on what is "not much money" versus "a lot of money" for anyone other than yourself.


Yes, EastWest has been offering refunds or subscription pauses if you contact Support.


Yes, it could have been nice if EastWest was more proactive about it.


No, that's not going to happen, because they're a business and the more they proactively say or do, the more risk they take on themselves.


In a few posts, I see some language barriers. We even have users at VI-Control who translate text to/from English. Let's show some kindness and try to understand that someone whose first language is not English may be wildly uncomfortable reaching out to EastWest Support for a refund.


EastWest has historically wonky upgrade prices. They're not alone in this. Take it or leave it.


It's nice that Nick keeps coming back despite getting beat up.


Maybe he sometimes deserves it, just a little.


Some people on both sides will never be happy.


Some of the unhappy people simply are not the target audience for either the Composer Cloud, the Opus trailers, or even the full library and/or the Orchestrator itself.
What am I missing?

EDIT: Fixed some confusing sequencing of bullets from over-editing.


----------



## peladio

BasariStudios said:


> How did EWQLSO come up in this?
> It has NOTHING to do with either or.
> Are people that naive? Hahahahaha
> They don't even take care of EW HO
> Customers that has EVERYTHING
> To do with this and you expect they
> Wi do something about EWQLSO?
> LOL


Could you please stop spamming this thread? We get it..you won't buy it..EW won't change their strategy because of you..give it a rest

It's really tiresome to read..


----------



## MauroPantin

Michael Antrum said:


> You can addd Finale, Sibelius and Dorico to that list too......


And Notion 6! It works, at least for Sibelius. Although it is super hidden away in their site.


----------



## chocobitz825

Evans said:


> Is it at all feasible that we acknowledge some things and move on?
> 
> The push for subs and subsequent last-minute delay was, at a minimum, disappointing.
> 
> 
> It's not kind to call people "idiots" for buying into the hype and subscribing without knowing much about Opus. It's kinda what "marketing folk" do in a whole lot of industries.
> 
> 
> Some people did just subscribe for Opus. Heck, I almost did, just to have a low cost "trial" of sorts, despite having no interest in the rest of the Composer Cloud.
> 
> 
> The information available on Opus is confusing, such as what's _precisely _new (not just what we know from posts from a year ago on VI-Control).
> 
> 
> We pretty much all want more content - walkthroughs, audio demos, whatever.
> 
> 
> The way they present the audio demo on the web site - with the ability to solo tracks - is _badass_.
> 
> 
> It is not kind to make an assessment on what is "not much money" versus "a lot of money" for anyone other than yourself.
> 
> 
> Yes, EastWest has been offering refunds or subscription pauses if you contact Support.
> 
> 
> Yes, it could have been nice if EastWest was more proactive about it.
> 
> 
> No, that's not going to happen, because they're a business and the more they proactively say or do, the more risk they take on themselves.
> 
> 
> In a few posts, I see some language barriers. We even have users at VI-Control who translate text to/from English. Let's show some kindness and try to understand that someone whose first language is not English may be wildly uncomfortable reaching out to EastWest Support for a refund.
> 
> 
> EastWest has historically wonky upgrade prices. They're not alone in this. Take it or leave it.
> 
> 
> It's nice that Nick keeps coming back despite getting beat up.
> 
> 
> Maybe he sometimes deserves it, just a little.
> 
> 
> Some people on both sides will never be happy.
> 
> 
> Some of the unhappy people simply are not the target audience for either the Composer Cloud, the Opus trailers, or even the full library and/or the Orchestrator itself.
> What am I missing?
> 
> EDIT: Fixed some confusing sequencing of bullets from over-editing.


Are there any other big libraries coming out soon? I feel like maybe some of the fever here might also be due to opus being the only big release on the table right now.


----------



## BasariStudios

Weyenberg Creative said:


> Now hold up a minute... you spend all that every month and you've got your panties in a bunch over $120 that you could likely get refunded just by talking to the customer service team at EW? I think your pearl-clutching is a bit... ridiculous?


Its not about 120$ or 1200$, its about reality, morals and principals.


----------



## dzilizzi

chocobitz825 said:


> Are there any other big libraries coming out soon? I feel like maybe some of the fever here might also be due to opus being the only big release on the table right now.


Only Sonokinetic's Strings.


----------



## AndyP

My feeling is that no more info, demos or walkthoughs will be released before the end of the pre-sale.
Maybe EW thinks that what we see has to be enough to convince us to buy.
But as long as there is nothing more I will not press the little button where it says buy. And after pre-sale not at all.
After all the waiting, I find it disappointing, especially since I was very convinced to buy OPUS just a few weeks ago. This feeling fades with every day that nothing new comes. And this has nothing to do with the price, if I get convincing details it is worth to me to put 500 bills on the table. Without further information, however, this product cannot be purchased at the current conditions, at full price it is definitely and irrefutably ruled out.
It's hard to believe that EW seriously expects this.


----------



## cqd

They're coming during the week apparently?..

It's kind of funny how people have built up EW into this massive bad guy just trying to shaft everyone..


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

cqd said:


> They're coming during the week apparently?..
> 
> It's kind of funny how people have built up EW into this massive bad guy just trying to shaft everyone..


People have their inherent biases and will find any reason to support it.

For some facts, this is what EW has said recently:

"We'll have more specific product details such as a manual and videos as we get closer to the release date."

"We have plans for future videos, some of which will also be released during the introductory period so stay tuned for any updates on those via our main Facebook page."

They also left a comment that they'll have an in-depth video on the orchestrator this coming week.

People seem to forget that for JXL Brass's pre-order, OT didn't release a walkthrough until the very last minute.


----------



## AndyP

cqd said:


> They're coming during the week apparently?..
> 
> It's kind of funny how people have built up EW into this massive bad guy just trying to shaft everyone..


I don't have the feeling that they want to rip me off. There are 9 days left to provide more information.
I'm talking about the status quo, and it's not like I'm convinced enough to buy OPUS.
If what I want to see is shown before the end of the pre sale, the picture will probably change. Only as long as that is not the case ... no deal.
Bad guys ... I'm not saying that, but I'm currently skeptical if anything will actually come in the next 9 days.
The budgets are not unlimited and since other interesting products are currently offered it is a question of decision making.


----------



## AndyP

ALittleNightMusic said:


> People have their inherent biases and will find any reason to support it.
> 
> For some facts, this is what EW has said recently:
> 
> "We'll have more specific product details such as a manual and videos as we get closer to the release date."
> 
> "We have plans for future videos, some of which will also be released during the introductory period so stay tuned for any updates on those via our main Facebook page."
> 
> They also left a comment that they'll have an in-depth video on the orchestrator this coming week.
> 
> People seem to forget that for JXL Brass's pre-order, OT didn't release a walkthrough until the very last minute.


And where is this information? Facebook? Other sources? I would expect such information on their homepage. Or have I overlooked something?

Edit: I'm happy to be accused of some things, but not what you make of it!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

AndyP said:


> And where is this information? Facebook? Other sources? I would expect such information on their homepage. Or have I overlooked something?
> 
> Edit: I'm happy to be accused of some things, but not what you make of it!


It's on their Facebook official page. Why would they post this on their website? Nobody posts "Walkthrough video and more demo songs coming soon at some point!" on their official website.


----------



## AndyP

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It's on their Facebook official page. Why would they post this on their website? Nobody posts "Walkthrough video and more demo songs coming soon at some point!" on their official website.


Then I'm probably one of the few who don't have a Facebook account and don't want one. Then it is obviously because I still live in the Middle Ages that I miss such information. 
Then I'll wait and see ... and will remain stupid for lack of Facebook.

I apologize that I am so backward and think that websites of manufacturers also serve the information. My mistake!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

AndyP said:


> Then I'm probably one of the few who don't have a Facebook account and don't want one. Then it is obviously because I still live in the Middle Ages that I miss such information.
> Then I'll wait and see ... and will remain stupid for lack of Facebook.
> 
> I apologize that I am so backward and think that websites of manufacturers also serve the information. My mistake!


Just pointing out that your feelings, which are probably rooted in your inherent negative bias towards EW, are based on incorrect information.


----------



## Nimrod7

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It's on their Facebook official page. Why would they post this on their website? Nobody posts "Walkthrough video and more demo songs coming soon at some point!" on their official website.


That's a bizarre statement. Everyone posts walkthroughs in their website, a few examples:

BBCSO:








Exploring Theme with BBCSO Core — THE PAGE


Exploring theme with the BBC Symphony Orchestra, Louis draws inspiration from renowned video game composer Nobuo Uematsu, and also demonstrates some of the differences between BBCSO and our recently released Abbey Road ONE: Orchestral Foundations. The Perilous Flight by Louis Rugg




www.spitfireaudiothepage.com





Synchron Strings:




__





SYNCHRON STRINGS PRO - Vienna Symphonic Library


Synchron Strings Pro represents the next generation of sampled string ensembles, fusing artistic expression, a wealth of detailed articulations, natural note transitions and sonic excellence within a resource-friendly, easy-to-use product.




www.vsl.co.at





CineBrass:




__





Cinesamples - CineBrass CORE | Orchestral Brass Essentials recorded at the MGM Stage






cinesamples.com





@AndyP
Don't worry about facebook. It's highly likely it will be just a link to youtube, and as soon it will be announced in facebook I bet it will be shared here too.


----------



## AndyP

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Just pointing out that your feelings, which are probably rooted in your inherent negative bias towards EW, are based on incorrect information.


I have no negative bias against EW. But thanks for the enlightenment anyway.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Nimrod7 said:


> That's a bizarre statement. Everyone posts walkthroughs in their website, a few examples:
> 
> BBCSO:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exploring Theme with BBCSO Core — THE PAGE
> 
> 
> Exploring theme with the BBC Symphony Orchestra, Louis draws inspiration from renowned video game composer Nobuo Uematsu, and also demonstrates some of the differences between BBCSO and our recently released Abbey Road ONE: Orchestral Foundations. The Perilous Flight by Louis Rugg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spitfireaudiothepage.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synchron Strings:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYNCHRON STRINGS PRO - Vienna Symphonic Library
> 
> 
> Synchron Strings Pro represents the next generation of sampled string ensembles, fusing artistic expression, a wealth of detailed articulations, natural note transitions and sonic excellence within a resource-friendly, easy-to-use product.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vsl.co.at
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CineBrass:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cinesamples - CineBrass CORE | Orchestral Brass Essentials recorded at the MGM Stage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cinesamples.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @AndyP
> Don't worry about facebook. It's highly likely it will be just a link to youtube, and as soon it will be announced in facebook I bet it will be shared here too.


Your interpretation of what I wrote is bizarre. EW of course will post the walkthrough on the website, just like they do for all their other products. What I said is that they are not going to announce on their website that a walkthrough is coming. Your referenced companies don't do that either.


----------



## Nimrod7

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Your interpretation of what I wrote is bizarre. EW of course will post the walkthrough on the website, just like they do for all their other products. What I said is that they are not going to announce on their website that a walkthrough is coming. Your referenced companies don't do that either.


I misunderstood your message, however it doesn't change anything.

The announcement on Modern Scoring Strings, on red on their website:








Modern Scoring Strings - Audiobro


Modern Scoring Strings is our newest and most recently recorded 60 piece “a2” divisi (2 parts divisi per section) flagship string library.



audiobro.com





"Version 1.1 is completed for the Modern Scoring Strings (MSS) main library.
The version 1.1 update will be coming soon for all the MSS Expanded Legato patches. Thank you for your patience."

Informing users for upcoming content, is not something that is exclusively shared through social media by companies.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It's on their Facebook official page. Why would they post this on their website? Nobody posts "Walkthrough video and more demo songs coming soon at some point!" on their official website.


Huh? You obviously aren’t in tune with most developers’ websites. FB is the bottom of the barrel, not everyone goes to their FB page, that’s what their website is for.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Huh? You obviously aren’t in tune with most developers’ websites. FB is the bottom of the barrel, not everyone goes to their FB page, that’s what their website is for.


The reading comprehension of this forum is spiraling down to new depths.



Nimrod7 said:


> I misunderstood your message, however it doesn't change anything.
> 
> The announcement on Modern Scoring Strings, on red on their website:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modern Scoring Strings - Audiobro
> 
> 
> Modern Scoring Strings is our newest and most recently recorded 60 piece “a2” divisi (2 parts divisi per section) flagship string library.
> 
> 
> 
> audiobro.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Version 1.1 is completed for the Modern Scoring Strings (MSS) main library.
> The version 1.1 update will be coming soon for all the MSS Expanded Legato patches. Thank you for your patience."
> 
> Informing users for upcoming content, is not something that is exclusively shared through social media by companies.


And yet, when MSS was first announced, there was not a single demo or walkthrough. And even the website was hidden. And AudioBro didn't say on the website "Walkthroughs coming". Also, that 1.1 notice is VERY recent (after the standard 1.1 was released). Poor example.


----------



## AndyP

Now we are arguing even before there is a reason to argue. Blame has ... everyone should decide for himself.


----------



## dcoscina




----------



## chocobitz825

(Music from 300 plays, and things go into slow motion)

This is VI-Control!!!

*kick random user into a pit*


come on everyone...we do this every time with big releases. Is it surprising anymore? I’m pretty sure quite a few of us predicted this flow of events 100 something pages back.

we should all prepare for the inevitable next step. Walkthroughs and demo videos that show some features but not enough to convince those who want multiple examples of individual articulations.


----------



## emilio_n

Hi! 
For sure this was answered before, but I can't find it.
Having the 4 main sections of Hollywood Orchestra Diamond is enough to opt for the upgrade to Opus or I need to have a licence of the Solo Violin, Cello, Harp, etc...?


----------



## Trash Panda

emilio_n said:


> Hi!
> For sure this was answered before, but I can't find it.
> Having the 4 main sections of Hollywood Orchestra Diamond is enough to opt for the upgrade to Opus or I need to have a licence of the Solo Violin, Cello, Harp, etc...?


You are covered for the upgrade with the 4 main sections you have.


----------



## emilio_n

Trash Panda said:


> You are covered for the upgrade with the 4 main sections you have.


Thanks! 
Let's see if they show something more until 20 to decided


----------



## Quantum Leap

BasariStudios said:


> There was a time when EW had some credibility
> but now all is left is a bunch of basically thieves
> without any credibility or dignity. Yes, go ahead
> and hang me but it does not affect my life.
> Did they win anything? Yes they did, they made
> the money and laugh at people like me (losers)
> now but that is all right too, some of us if not all
> still have purchasing power and can vote with
> their wallets.


It is now clear to me that this world is really taking a toll on all of us. Basari, no one thinks you are a loser or is making fun of you. I don’t know how we got to that. I wrote some stupid stuff, because I felt like I was being attacked unfairly. I can assure you that we make sounds out of love of music. I make music for a living like you.


----------



## Markrs

Quantum Leap said:


> It is now clear to me that this world is really taking a toll on all of us. Basari, no one thinks you are a loser or is making fun of you. I don’t know how we got to that. I wrote some stupid stuff, because I felt like I was being attacked unfairly. I can assure you that we make sounds out of love of music. I make music for a living like you.


Good reminder that whilst we might all have different expectations of a product or company, we are all human and deep down everyone is doing the best in during difficult times. We just need to remember there is always a human at the other end of a comment, so try to be civil and if needs be take a breath before replying.

There are more than a few times I have wanted to reply and then realised my reply would neither add to the conversation and in fact would likely to exacerbate any disagreements and probably further derail a thread.


----------



## Markrs

I am excited to see the final product, I have CCX so will get to enjoy it on release, but if I didn't I wouldn't go for the pre-release price, but wait for it to release first (I have HOD as well and that is what I will do). 

I run the risk in losing out on the upgrade price, but hopefully the post-release upgrade price will be competitive and if it isn't I will wait. The truth is there are plenty of other libraries out there if I feel the upgrade price is not a option I want to take.


----------



## emilio_n

Markrs said:


> I am excited to see the final product, I have CCX so will get to enjoy it on release, but if I didn't I wouldn't go for the pre-release price, but wait for it to release first (I have HOD as well and that is what I will do).
> 
> I run the risk in losing out on the upgrade price, but hopefully the post-release upgrade price will be competitive and if it isn't I will wait. The truth is there are plenty of other libraries out there if I feel the upgrade price is not a option I want to take.


I am in your same situation, but maybe don’t have the subscription. Todo am thinking about take the risk or wait until the library is out.
I am sure will be great but at this moment I am worried that if some bug or problems appears at the e release I can trust on the developer to fix it fast.
I bought HO Diamond but didn’t use yet as I am not comfortable with the Play engine. New gui and the orchestrator looks two great thing for me that I am just an amateur. 500$ is more expensive than I wish but I think will worth it.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Markrs said:


> I am excited to see the final product, I have CCX so will get to enjoy it on release, but if I didn't I wouldn't go for the pre-release price, but wait for it to release first (I have HOD as well and that is what I will do).
> 
> I run the risk in losing out on the upgrade price, but hopefully the post-release upgrade price will be competitive and if it isn't I will wait. The truth is there are plenty of other libraries out there if I feel the upgrade price is not a option I want to take.


I saw a post on FB from EW saying that the post-release price will be $100 more, so $595.

I did the same - I have HOD for a year and not used it properly yet past having a play with it as thought it made more sense to wait as opposed to having to learn 2 different interfaces. I signed up for CC+ so I could get it on release as can't even afford a few hundred up front right now, and am very much looking forward to getting it.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

As a Composer Cloud Plus subscirber, I am VERY excited to see what is in the store for the Woodwinds!
Until now I have purchased Aaron Venture, then I got BBCSO, because I thoroughly love woodwinds.

So eager to see what Nick and the team have done there
Moved everything non-Hollywood Orchestra from the SSD ready for the updated content too


----------



## BasariStudios

Quantum Leap said:


> It is now clear to me that this world is really taking a toll on all of us. Basari, no one thinks you are a loser or is making fun of you. I don’t know how we got to that. I wrote some stupid stuff, because I felt like I was being attacked unfairly. I can assure you that we make sounds out of love of music. I make music for a living like you.


As i said few posts earlier. YOU personally are one of the reasons i do what i do today even though you have no clue who i am or i exist. Nothing i say is usually directed at you personally.


----------



## Trash Panda

Markrs said:


> I am excited to see the final product, I have CCX so will get to enjoy it on release, but if I didn't I wouldn't go for the pre-release price, but wait for it to release first (I have HOD as well and that is what I will do).
> 
> I run the risk in losing out on the upgrade price, but hopefully the post-release upgrade price will be competitive and if it isn't I will wait. The truth is there are plenty of other libraries out there if I feel the upgrade price is not a option I want to take.


I’m in the same boat, minus the subscription, but I can wait until the inevitable price drop/sale. Got PLENTY of libraries to use and learn in the meantime.


----------



## Toecutter

ComposerCloud Plus is currently at 40% off $29.99. Is this a good deal? I could swear it was on sale a while ago for $15 or so. Or perhaps I'm mistaking it with regular ComposerCloud?

Are CC sales prices adjusted after a period of time?


----------



## Markrs

Toecutter said:


> ComposerCloud Plus is currently at 40% off $29.99. Is this a good deal? I could swear it was on sale a while ago for $15 or so. Or perhaps I'm mistaking it with regular ComposerCloud?
> 
> Are CC sales prices adjusted after a period of time?


CC plus was $49 for quite some time. It is CCX that has been on sales for over a year at $19


----------



## Toecutter

Markrs said:


> CC plus was $49 for quite some time. It is CCX that has been on sales for over a year at $19


Thanks Markrs! So $29 is the lowest CC plus ever went?


----------



## Markrs

Toecutter said:


> Thanks Markrs! So $29 is the lowest CC plus ever went?


That I am aware of. Someone else might know better but until the current discount which appeared around the end of last year I had only ever previously seen it at $49


----------



## Toecutter

Markrs said:


> That I am aware of. Someone else might know better but until the current discount which appeared around the end of last year I had only ever previously seen it at $49


Are you happy with CCX? Can you pick the second microphone (like Vintage) or is it predefined by EW?


----------



## Markrs

Toecutter said:


> Are you happy with CCX? Can you pick the second microphone (like Vintage) or is it predefined by EW?


Predefined, so they give you the close mic as the extra along the one that comes with Gold, normally mid or main mic (this mic varies based on section)


----------



## Markrs

Toecutter said:


> Are you happy with CCX? Can you pick the second microphone (like Vintage) or is it predefined by EW?


Yep, I am happy with it. They make great libraries, but they are not all orchestral. The issue is it is a bit overwhelming how much is there. I still thing their choirs are the best wordbuilders around, and I will probably look to own those at some point, so I have them permanently.

I should say I am lucky enough to get CCX via the student $10 a month deal


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Toecutter said:


> Thanks Markrs! So $29 is the lowest CC plus ever went?


At Christmas when they started doing the push for Opus it dropped to $39.99 which is when I signed up. The current $29.99 is the cheapest it has ever been as far as I know. I did notice some of the description has changed - the other month it was saying Plus gave you access to $17,000 worth of instruments, whereas now it says $14,000 - I wonder if the adjustment is due to re-evaluating prices in general 🤔


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Markrs said:


> Yep, I am happy with it. They make great libraries, but they are not all orchestral. The issue is it is a bit overwhelming how much is there. I still thing their choirs are the best wordbuilders around, and I will probably look to own those at some point, so I have them permanently.
> 
> I should say I am lucky enough to get CCX via the student $10 a month deal


I know what you mean about the overwhelming amount of content - I bought a new SSD and HDD so could move stuff around and download everything (besides the really old Anniversary stuff) to play with whenever I want. The choirs and voices, along with ESQLSO and the ethnic stuff, are the other libraries I am really interested in trying, and like yourself will be the ones I look at owning in future.


----------



## woafmann

I'm also excited to see what's in store with the update, especially the woodwind section, string legato and new arpeggiator functionality. However, I'll be waiting for some future sale after this thing's been released and thoroughly reviewed.

Not making the same mistake I did with Hollywood Choirs Diamond and buying out of the gate.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Markrs said:


> Yep, I am happy with it. They make great libraries, but they are not all orchestral. The issue is it is a bit overwhelming how much is there. I still thing their choirs are the best wordbuilders around, and I will probably look to own those at some point, so I have them permanently.
> 
> I should say I am lucky enough to get CCX via the student $10 a month deal


Nice! I’ve had it for $15 a month for a few years, great deal. I heard that strings will have main mic’s in CCX....if this is the case, I’m happy with that.


----------



## ThomasS

I just read this forum, and studied the information on the East-West site, and came to this conclusion:


The Opus playback platform looks pretty interesting, especially since Wolfgang Kundrus (developer of Cubase) and Wolfgang Schneider (creator of Kontakt) were involved. I’m sure developers of that caliber don’t come cheap, and I assume that is why the upgrade price for owners of Hollywood and/or EWQL libraries is unusually high. But it looks like a “sort-of” new product – not really comparable to the run-of-the-mill upgrade of other libraries.
Because it incorporates all the old sample libraries, it makes current users mad because it looks like an update for an unreasonable price. But if they had released only the new instruments, with a new library name (new 18 violin section, new trombones, trumpets, bassoons, clarinets and flutes, etc.) would people be complaining about the price if it was an entirely new library? We will have to wait and see if the new content is worth it – however many gigabytes it has or doesn’t have – and I wonder why they have yet to release demos isolating the new content.
So, I see this as a new library, but at the same time has the advantage of incorporating all the old libraries and comes with a new playback engine that looks pretty good from the hype (customized key-switches, effects mixer, scalable retina GUI, new script language, etc.)
I don’t see why people are comparing this to a typical update or upgrade and want a lower price. I own a few old EWQL orchestral and choir libraries, which I don’t use anymore, but I got use out of them years ago and that is what I paid for. Better things come out, they cost money to develop, get used to it.
The Shawn Murphy special mixes (if you get Diamond) look promising too. Mixing and balancing mic positions can go a long way to enhancing realism, and the ability to do this across a full library could be great. Once again, I hope to hear some demos of this.
The Orchestrator looks pretty cool too, even if I never use it for anything final, but just as an experimenting and composing tool. I like Sonuscore’s The Orchestra, so having something similar for these sounds is also promising.
EastWest clearly Effed-Up the overly-hyped announcement and delayed-release – getting everyone excited in January and leaving it dangling for four months – and this makes me suspicious (like everyone else) but I am willing to wait until it has been released and reviewed and demoed to decide if it is worth the money or not. The johnny-come-early complaints about the value of a product that we know very little about are just “free advice” (and you get what you pay for).
So, I decided that I will wait for the release, and then take either a one-month ($19 or $29 investment) for a Composer Cloud subscription and see if it is worth it or not. Or even $299 for a year of the Composer Cloud (Plus) is not bad when you think about it. How many times have I bought libraries for a lot more, and used them happily for a year or two, and then went on to other things? At least they give you the chance to use it for a year or two at a far lower price than whole libraries that I only used for a year or two before abandoning them.
I have no real need for much else in the Composer Cloud except Opus (maybe Hollywood Choirs or Backup Singers?) so the Composer Cloud is only the "Opus Cloud." But, as I said, $299 for a year of Opus looks good, and if the new platform can incorporate some of the other libraries maybe I'll try some of them too.


----------



## Nimrod7

ThomasS said:


> and came to this conclusion:
> 
> The Opus playback platform looks pretty interesting, especially since Wolfgang Kundrus (developer of Cubase) and Wolfgang Schneider (creator of Kontakt) were involved. I’m sure


I also concluded that in order to be a great DSP engineer and build robust sample engines, you have to be named Wolfgang.


----------



## ThomasS

Nimrod7 said:


> I also concluded that in order to be a great DSP engineer and build robust build sample engines, you have to be named Wolfgang.


Yes, but apparently you need a whole gang of wolfs.


----------



## mcalis

ThomasS said:


> The Shawn Murphy special mixes (if you get Diamond) look promising too. Mixing and balancing mic positions can go a long way to enhancing realism, and the ability to do this across a full library could be great. Once again, I hope to hear some demos of this.


These don't exist. It looks to me like you may have misinterpreted what's on the site. They're talking about Shawn Murphy mixing down all the mics that were physically in the room into the mic positions you get in the player. In plain English: there is no Shawn Murphy Mix 1. There's only: close, mid, main, vintage/surround, edge.

With Gold you get only one mic position. With Diamond you get all of them (and all are needed for the moods feature, apparently). That's how I read it.


----------



## djburton

Markrs said:


> I am excited to see the final product, I have CCX so will get to enjoy it on release, but if I didn't I wouldn't go for the pre-release price, but wait for it to release first (I have HOD as well and that is what I will do).
> 
> I run the risk in losing out on the upgrade price, but hopefully the post-release upgrade price will be competitive and if it isn't I will wait. The truth is there are plenty of other libraries out there if I feel the upgrade price is not a option I want to take.


After spending nearly a year reading this thread (and experiencing all the aggravation reflected in it), I will chime in and say this is precisely my response, except for my surrender to the "plus" subscription. I re-instated my old CCX subscription last fall hoping this would be released then, upgraded to the "plus" version again hoping to trial with all mic positions prior to purchasing at a reasonable upgrade price sometime thereafter. I have not requested a refund or other modification to my subscription predicated on East West's hideously non-communicative delay, since I use Spaces II and dabble with Stormdrum, but I already permanently license HOD; now I'm signed up through December on the CC Plus plan, and will fully "trial" OPUS in this manner hoping (there's that word again - damn) that the upgrade price softens to pre-release levels as an incentive. In the meantime, all my orchestral projects use HOD, which is lovely and easily supplemented by SO Platinum, Chris Hein, or CSW where the HO woodwinds creak, and I can live with that indefinitely despite the keyswitch inconvenience. I can wait. Other libraries competently fill the perceived gap.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Nice! I’ve had it for $15 a month for a few years, great deal. I heard that strings will have main mic’s in CCX....if this is the case, I’m happy with that.


I hope they keep this going another 3 days so I can cancel my renewal for CCP
I am on my last month now and can take advantage of this low pricing for the next year!


----------



## dcoscina

Even though I've been dropping these smart-assed photos here and there, I would like to hear more from this library. I don't think I'd jump for $495 or $595 but at some point I might upgrade.. Probably around the same duration it took me to upgrade from SPACES 1 to 2 (had to wait until they finally made it more attractive to existing owners over newbies...)


----------



## Michael Antrum

I like the look of the new player, but although I already have HO Diamond, I've mostly moved on (though there are some things in Hollywood Strings I use all the time).

In addition, after recent issues with other developers, I can't say I'm much of a fan of pre-orders either - intro offers yes - pre-orders no.

So whilst I'm looking forward to seeing the upcoming reviews/walkthroughs, I don't feel the need to be a pioneer with this one - but there again, I am intrigued as to all the new developments. I wish them the best with the new release - there must have been a ton of work gone into it.

(Having said that, I'll probably end up buying it at some point - but I'm way too busy right now to invest the time that a behemoth library like this deserves.)


----------



## BasariStudios

Well today i also pulled the plug on Synchron Elite Strings
after getting MSS, Synchron Strings Pro, BBC SO PRO and ARO
and HO D all in the last 3-4 months, by now i am way OVER Hoopus.
Even if it was cheap upgrade by now i am overwhelmed.
Yes i spend money on HOD but at this point just let it go.


----------



## Markrs

BasariStudios said:


> Well today i also pulled the plug on Synchron Elite Strings
> after getting MSS, Synchron Strings Pro, BBC SO PRO and ARO
> and HO D all in the last 3-4 months, by now i am way OVER Hoopus.
> Even if it was cheap upgrade by now i am overwhelmed.
> Yes i spend money on HOD but at this point just let it go.


I really liked the sound of Synchron Elite Strings. Like you I am overwhelmed with what I already have. In many ways buying sample libraries is the easy part, using them is much harder.


----------



## BasariStudios

Markrs said:


> I really liked the sound of Synchron Elite Strings. Like you I am overwhelmed with what I already have. In many ways buying sample libraries is the easy part, using them is much harder.


Buying them IS the easiest part. The problem is now i am just staring at them.


----------



## szczaw

BasariStudios said:


> Buying them IS the easiest part. The problem is now i am just staring at them.


Then you may need to buy Orchestrator


----------



## BasariStudios

szczaw said:


> Then you may need to buy Orchestrator


That kinda makes sense.


----------



## Michael Antrum

You know what's bizarre ?

I buy a new sample library, and I think to myself that I must write something with it. So the first thing I do is to pick up my iPad and open Staffpad.......

I fear I must be some kind of old school/new school hybrid.....


----------



## cqd

BasariStudios said:


> Well today i also pulled the plug on Synchron Elite Strings
> after getting MSS, Synchron Strings Pro, BBC SO PRO and ARO
> and HO D all in the last 3-4 months, by now i am way OVER Hoopus.
> Even if it was cheap upgrade by now i am overwhelmed.
> Yes i spend money on HOD but at this point just let it go.


You should be in fairness..
Does there not come a point where a minor difference in tone doesn't make any difference?..


----------



## BasariStudios

cqd said:


> You should be in fairness..
> Does there not come a point where a minor difference in tone doesn't make any difference?..


At this point NONE of that makes any difference. Its just sick. I am same way with Eurorack.


----------



## cqd

BasariStudios said:


> At this point NONE of that makes any difference. Its just sick. I am same way with Eurorack.


Ah well.. whatever floats your boat shur, but I came to a stage where after buying a couple of things it was like 'meh', so I'm pretty much over it now..

I'd been waiting for opus for a while, but after that it will have to be something amazing..

Like, after a certain point it doesn't make your music any better..


----------



## BasariStudios

cqd said:


> Ah well.. whatever floats your boat shur, but I came to a stage where after buying a couple of things it was like 'meh', so I'm pretty much over it now..
> 
> I'd been waiting for opus for a while, but after that it will have to be something amazing..
> 
> Like, after a certain point it doesn't make your music any better..


Man, even ages ago it would not make a difference but when does all this stop? I though SS PRO was the end of it, then ARO, then BBC SO PRO, then MSS, now Elite Strings...when is it enough???


----------



## cqd

BasariStudios said:


> Man, even ages ago it would not make a difference but when does all this stop? I though SS PRO was the end of it, then ARO, then BBC SO PRO, then MSS, now Elite Strings...when is it enough???


Well, don't buy opus..


----------



## szczaw

BasariStudios said:


> Man, even ages ago it would not make a difference but when does all this stop? I though SS PRO was the end of it, then ARO, then BBC SO PRO, then MSS, now Elite Strings...when is it enough???


With close mics and software reverb, there is little need for different room libraries. Switching to this kind of setup could result in a serious reduction of GAS.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

szczaw said:


> With close mics and software reverb, there is little need for different room libraries. Switching to this kind of setup could result in a serious reduction of GAS.


Self-control tends to help as well
And not telling yourself that you cannot say no because the marketing is just too good and enticing.

I myself have spent about £10K on sample libraries at this point... yet my productivity did not go up at all

In my time observing those who are most creative, I have found there is a discipline and a sense of personal responsibility. But both of those seem to be disappearing from life fast these days


----------



## EgM

szczaw said:


> With close mics and software reverb, there is little need for different room libraries. Switching to this kind of setup could result in a serious reduction of GAS.



I mainly use VSL (VI versions), EWHO and I use other niche libraries when I need more character. I have no idea what people see in room libraries, nor 12 mic setups... But that's just me. Really helped with GAS


----------



## chocobitz825

If you don’t want to waste your libraries, commit to reading the manual for each one. It’s almost like self punishment with how some of them are written, but it will make you learn the instrument, and hopefully inspire you to use it immediately.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

BasariStudios said:


> Man, even ages ago it would not make a difference but when does all this stop? I though SS PRO was the end of it, then ARO, then BBC SO PRO, then MSS, now Elite Strings...when is it enough???


Are you purely a hobbyist? If so, then just stop acquiring libraries NOW. Ask yourself why you actually need a certain library; if you don’t know, then you’re not missing out on anything. If you earn money composing (even part time), don’t buy any libraries unless a) you specifically need it for a project or b) you can justify the cost, because the money that you’re earning from it will cover the cost. For example, that’s how I bought my iMac recently.


----------



## dzilizzi

chocobitz825 said:


> If you don’t want to waste your libraries, commit to reading the manual for each one. It’s almost like self punishment with how some of them are written, but it will make you learn the instrument, and hopefully inspire you to use it immediately.


Read the manual? What???? 

People actually read the manuals????


Unfortunately, it seems like every time I actually want to read the manual, it is almost useless. But that is another matter. And, to be fair, a lot of the problems I end up having are not a single product problem - like trying to figure out using VE Pro with Kontakt and Cubase. And a few other things that the manual states are "easy" - but for some reason, it doesn't quite work the way it should.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

dzilizzi said:


> People actually read the manuals????


I do. The funny thing is, I found some typos that I reported to SF after reading the BBCSO manual. Manuals are there for a reason. The VEPro manuals are especially important, and quite easy to read IMO.


----------



## chocobitz825

dzilizzi said:


> Read the manual? What????
> 
> People actually read the manuals????
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, it seems like every time I actually want to read the manual, it is almost useless. But that is another matter. And, to be fair, a lot of the problems I end up having are not a single product problem - like trying to figure out using VE Pro with Kontakt and Cubase. And a few other things that the manual states are "easy" - but for some reason, it doesn't quite work the way it should.


that's the self-punishment part. Software manuals are almost always pretty terrible...but instrument libraries can be pretty easy to get through and show you where the softwares strong points, weak points, and quirks are. I've always found that reading the manuals has burned the characteristics of the library into my brain, so I know better where I would use it for any given project and it doesn't go to waste as something I bought but never got used to.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

dzilizzi said:


> Read the manual? What????
> 
> People actually read the manuals????
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, it seems like every time I actually want to read the manual, it is almost useless. But that is another matter. And, to be fair, a lot of the problems I end up having are not a single product problem - like trying to figure out using VE Pro with Kontakt and Cubase. And a few other things that the manual states are "easy" - but for some reason, it doesn't quite work the way it should.


Ironically, EWHO have great, very comprehensive manuals.


----------



## Evans

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Are you purely a hobbyist? If so, then just stop acquiring libraries NOW. Ask yourself why you actually need a certain library; if you don’t know, then you’re not missing out on anything. If you earn money composing (even part time), don’t buy any libraries unless a) you specifically need it for a project or b) you can justify the cost, because the money that you’re earning from it will cover the cost. For example, that’s how I bought my iMac recently.


One thing that changed a lot of my behavior was enforcing that I stick to releases from a specific hall for the majority of my purchases and for the start of almost every new project. I'm not a mixing engineer by any stretch of the imagination. That is, I'm terrible at it.

Agonizing over which brass was perfect for Scenario X and how I'd blend it with such-and-such woodwinds and strings from some completely different developer was a progress killer. It rendered me effectively mute.

Almost all of my (orchestral) purchases these days are from Teldex. I allow myself to pick up whatever Teldex releases I want as soon as they come out.

Sure, I've got products that blend well with them, such as using Synchron Strings Pro molto vibrato to give Berlin Symphonic Strings a boost.

But at least getting down a first pass for every instrument _before _I start layering has greatly sped me up. Those JXL trombone shorts aren't quite beefy enough? Well, forget it until every note is down. Then, stack on some CineBrass to see how it sounds.

Also starting most new ideas in StaffPad has been wonderful, since I can do it from bed at night and in the morning.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I do. The funny thing is, I found some typos that I reported to SF after reading the BBCSO manual. Manuals are there for a reason. The VEPro manuals are especially important, and quite easy to read IMO.


They are but I haven't actually been able to get VE Pro to work properly for some things. Like dragging channels into a folder. The manual makes it sound so easy. Nope. Or adding a Folder and not having it show up in the prior folder. This is similar to issues I have with Cubase. It is really frustrating when I watch a video and things work the way they should on the video.


----------



## Guffy

I hope that one (where is the rest?) demo they have up isnt indicative of what we can expect from HOOPUS.

Benny Oschmann can make anything sound great obviously, but that legato sounds pretty bad. Reminds me of SIPS. Nothing in that demo that the 'old' HWO can't do.


----------



## Trax

I remember reading that this was their best legato re the new strings


----------



## BasariStudios

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Are you purely a hobbyist? If so, then just stop acquiring libraries NOW. Ask yourself why you actually need a certain library; if you don’t know, then you’re not missing out on anything. If you earn money composing (even part time), don’t buy any libraries unless a) you specifically need it for a project or b) you can justify the cost, because the money that you’re earning from it will cover the cost. For example, that’s how I bought my iMac recently.


To not ignore your comment. I became a hobbyist lately.
I used to do Strictly Music for Living and what a Living
that was...more than i need BUT...the funny part is when
i MADE MONEY i did not buy so much equipment, i used
whatever i had, found workarounds and bought few 
necessities. The whole concentration was on end product,
profit and how much money i made. The moment i stopped
doing that i started buying like crazy. I made 10s of THOUSANDS
of Dollars ONLY with a Korg Triton and a Casio CZ101.


----------



## Trash Panda

@BasariStudios if money is burning a hole in your wallet, I’m sure there’s a few VI-C’ers that would gladly accept donations to pay off their GAS fueled purchases.


----------



## BasariStudios

Trash Panda said:


> @BasariStudios if money is burning a hole in your wallet, I’m sure there’s a few VI-C’ers that would gladly accept donations to pay off their GAS fueled purchases.


I am just scared to become needy of Donations too.


----------



## dzilizzi

BasariStudios said:


> I am just scared to become needy of Donations too.


I get this. In 3.5 years, I can take early retirement. I will have money coming in from a pension, and I have enough in an IRA if nothing goes majorly wrong. But I probably won't be buying like I do now. And then, I will have more time to play with my collection when I'm not working so much, spending all day sitting in front of a computer. 

Hopefully I can get through my GAS with one or two bigger purchases a year and a lot of free stuff that I can "buy" even if I won't ever use any of it.


----------



## Frederick

dzilizzi said:


> I get this. In 3.5 years, I can take early retirement. I will have money coming in from a pension, and I have enough in an IRA if nothing goes majorly wrong. But I probably won't be buying like I do now. And then, I will have more time to play with my collection when I'm not working so much, spending all day sitting in front of a computer.
> 
> Hopefully I can get through my GAS with one or two bigger purchases a year and a lot of free stuff that I can "buy" even if I won't ever use any of it.


That sounds very similar to my situation! I will quit working somewhere between early next year and the end of the year after that. After early retirement I won't have enough money for a while to keep buying libraries like I did last year, which was mostly used for purchasing all my gear and libraries. This year I will spend most of my music time on learning and finishing my templates and expression maps. All that so I'll be ready to do all the mockups I could ever want when I'll have started early retirement.


----------



## chocobitz825

Retire? I plan to die with staffpad in my hand, a musical idea only half way finished, with a bitter grin on my face and the words “I suck! Finish the song!” written in the top corner....


----------



## Frederick

chocobitz825 said:


> Retire? I plan to die with staffpad in my hand, a musical idea only half way finished, with a bitter grin on my face and the words “I suck! Finish the song!” written in the top corner....


Some people have to retire from their mundane real life job first before being able to do just that...


----------



## chocobitz825

I’m a millennial. I’m pretty sure we’re supposed to work til we’re dead =P


----------



## Chungus

BasariStudios said:


> Well today i also pulled the plug on Synchron Elite Strings
> after getting MSS, Synchron Strings Pro, BBC SO PRO and ARO
> and HO D all in the last 3-4 months, by now i am way OVER Hoopus.
> Even if it was cheap upgrade by now i am overwhelmed.
> Yes i spend money on HOD but at this point just let it go.


Bruh. I know this stuff gets memed around here, but this legit sounds like a spending additiction. Perhaps consider disconnecting from the internet for a while, or at the very least setting this threat to unwatch and ignore, and saying out of the commercial announcements.


----------



## Frederick

Chungus said:


> Bruh. I know this stuff gets memed around here, but this legit sounds like a spending additiction. I suggest disconnecting from the internet for a while, or at the very least setting this threat to unwatch and ignore, and saying out of the commercial announcements. And perhaps also see a therapist, depending on how things go.


Not only does my girlfriend have a PhD in psychology, added to that she's been working in the field of addications for over two decades. And I have been buying more samples than he mentioned in the same period of time. All I want to say to him is: Buy HOOPUS and forget about what came before. It'll be annoying to have HOD and then not to have the upgrade - missing out on an orchestrator that is triggering more or less 500 Mbs of great samples. And that after having spent so much money on sample libraries already anyway.


----------



## mcalis

Frederick said:


> Not only does my girlfriend have a PhD in psychology, added to that she's been working in the field of addications for over two decades. And I have been buying more samples than he mentioned in the same period of time. All I want to say to him is: Buy HOOPUS and forget about what came before. It'll be annoying to have HOD and then not to have the upgrade - missing out on an orchestrator that is triggering more or less 500 Mbs of great samples. And that after having spent so much money on sample libraries already anyway.


Terrible advice. I'm with @Chungus on this one, what Basari describes sounds like a borderline unhealthy buying addiction. I mean, if you've got tons of money to spare, by all means buy whatever you want, but that's not the impression I'm getting at all.


----------



## AndyP

Chungus said:


> Bruh. I know this stuff gets memed around here, but this legit sounds like a spending additiction. I suggest disconnecting from the internet for a while, or at the very least setting this threat to unwatch and ignore, and saying out of the commercial announcements. And perhaps also see a therapist, depending on how things go.


VI Control is full of such cases, including me.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I do. The funny thing is, I found some typos that I reported to SF after reading the BBCSO manual. Manuals are there for a reason. The VEPro manuals are especially important, and quite easy to read IMO.


Ahh yes, the infamous typo detective work while reading manuals 
Fun, but also bad for the OCD


----------



## Chungus

AndyP said:


> VI Control is full of such cases, including me.


I've noticed.


----------



## Trash Panda

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Ahh yes, the infamous typo detective work while reading manuals
> Fun, but also bad for the OCD


More or less rewarding than playing find the typo on a Chinese takeout menu?


----------



## AndyP

Chungus said:


> I've noticed.


Interestingly, I've acquired a few new libraries over the years, but I keep coming back to HOD mostly. New libraires don't necessarily make the music better.
Sometimes it is even so that the selection process which patch from which library I should take now takes longer than the recording of the track.
I miss the times before there were such massive sales.


----------



## Grilled Cheese

Chungus said:


> Bruh. I know this stuff gets memed around here, but this legit sounds like a spending additiction. I suggest disconnecting from the internet for a while, or at the very least setting this threat to unwatch and ignore, and saying out of the commercial announcements. And perhaps also see a therapist, depending on how things go.


Perhaps you mean well, but offering an armchair diagnosis that concludes with a recommendation of therapy is pretty darn condescending. Many people around here have a genuine passion for V.I’s and own loads of them.


----------



## Frederick

mcalis said:


> Terrible advice. I'm with @Chungus on this one, what Basari describes sounds like a borderline unhealthy buying addiction. I mean, if you've got tons of money to spare, by all means buy whatever you want, but that's not the impression I'm getting at all.


I think he mentioned somewhere on the forum that he has his own construction company. He's also mentioned in this thread that he has made thousands of dollars with music at a time when he almost didn't spend any money on it.



chrispire said:


> Perhaps you mean well, but offering an armchair diagnosis that concludes with a recommendation of therapy is pretty darn condescending. Many people around here have a genuine passion for V.I’s and own loads of them.


Amen!


----------



## Trax

Why is the suggestion of therapy condescending?


----------



## dzilizzi

Chungus said:


> Bruh. I know this stuff gets memed around here, but this legit sounds like a spending additiction. I suggest disconnecting from the internet for a while, or at the very least setting this threat to unwatch and ignore, and saying out of the commercial announcements. And perhaps also see a therapist, depending on how things go.


Kind of depends. Unfortunately, when dealing with orchestral music, if you start with nothing getting a lot of string libraries seems to be a need. The problem is the picking and choosing what is best for what you want to do. There's a six or more page discussion on solo strings going on because none of the libraries can do it all, so putting together the needs versus the available and what fits closest (along with "well if it were me...." getting in the way) is continuing. 

But sometimes I do wish sales went back to the June/Summer, September/back to school, November/Black Friday, and December/Holiday sales. Four times a year is good. Constant sales are bad for us who do have a bit of a spending addiction.


----------



## cqd

dzilizzi said:


> Kind of depends. Unfortunately, when dealing with orchestral music, if you start with nothing getting a lot of string libraries seems to be a need. The problem is the picking and choosing what is best for what you want to do. There's a six or more page discussion on solo strings going on because none of the libraries can do it all, so putting together the needs versus the available and what fits closest (along with "well if it were me...." getting in the way) is continuing.


Ah, but half of that is just people justifying their addiction too for the most part..And trying to make themselves feel better about having spent so much..

I suffered from it myself for a while..
This place is half the problem..


----------



## Chungus

chrispire said:


> Perhaps you mean well, but offering an armchair diagnosis that concludes with a recommendation of therapy is pretty darn condescending. Many people around here have a genuine passion for V.I’s and own loads of them.


Yeah, fair enough. I see what you mean. I stand by the heart of my point, but I retract the last part of it.



AndyP said:


> Interestingly, I've acquired a few new libraries over the years, but I keep coming back to HOD mostly. New libraires don't necessarily make the music better.
> Sometimes it is even so that the selection process which patch from which library I should take now takes longer than the recording of the track.
> I miss the times before there were such massive sales.


Not gonna lie, I like sales. lol. Though certainly, the random flash sales, I could do without. As for HOD, I've always liked the sound, but shied away from it before of the workflow it demands. So unless HOOPUS ends up with a fatal flaw, I'll probably buy it. Already have some things in mind that I'd use it on. :D




dzilizzi said:


> Kind of depends. Unfortunately, when dealing with orchestral music, if you start with nothing getting a lot of string libraries seems to be a need. The problem is the picking and choosing what is best for what you want to do. There's a six or more page discussion on solo strings going on because none of the libraries can do it all, so putting together the needs versus the available and what fits closest (along with "well if it were me...." getting in the way) is continuing.
> 
> But sometimes I do wish sales went back to the June/Summer, September/back to school, November/Black Friday, and December/Holiday sales. Four times a year is good. Constant sales are bad for us who do have a bit of a spending addiction.



I get looking to fill a genuine gap in one's pallete. I wouldn't be following this thread, otherwise. But there's definitely a point where things cross over into just plain sample collecting. Having demos be available would help alleviate this, I'd think. It's unfortunate that's by and large not an option.


----------



## dzilizzi

Chungus said:


> I get looking to fill a genuine gap in one's pallete. I wouldn't be following this thread, otherwise. But there's definitely a point where things cross over into just plain sample collecting. Having demos be available would help alleviate this, I'd think. It's unfortunate that's by and large not an option.


Truthfully, I probably wouldn't have bought half of what I've bought if it weren't for others being able to make things sound good. I don't have the time or the skill level that comes with the time to make libraries sound as good at they can. So I buy the next based on someone saying it is easy to get it to sound good - note the "Compose a Blockbuster Soundtrack in Seconds!" claim with this library. 

So far, I haven't fallen into the CS wormhole because I hear it takes work to make it sound good. 

And, right now I have a decent amount of disposable income. Working from home = minimal spending on things like gas, clothes, lunches, etc....


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Trash Panda said:


> More or less rewarding than playing find the typo on a Chinese takeout menu?


That is a tough one...


----------



## RogiervG

Wow two pages of offtopic bla bla talk


----------



## cqd

I hope it never goes on sale..


----------



## dzilizzi

RogiervG said:


> Wow two pages of offtopic bla bla talk


This is what happens when a bunch of people are standing around waiting for something to happen. Like a walkthrough on a new product coming out.....


----------



## cqd

As soon as the pre order ends I'm going to start loads of threads about how the legato is amazing and the hall sounds epic and the orchestrator rocks ass..


----------



## mcalis

dzilizzi said:


> I don't have the time or the skill level that comes with the time to make libraries sound as good at they can


The irony is that you probably would have the skill to make libraries work for you if you invested into what you already owned vs buying new stuff.


Then again, it's your money, your life, your time, you can do as you like and it's not like I'm not ocassionally tempted to get something new and shiny rather than work with what I already have.

Still one of the most effective ways of dealing with this, for me at least, has been to listen to demos/walkthroughs of things I already have, to remind myself why I got them and what can be done with them. Works about 8 out of 10 times. I'd say.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

dzilizzi said:


> I don't have the time or the skill level that comes with the time to make libraries sound as good at they can.


Why not dedicate time to developing those skills? You already have the tools and the passion. Otherwise, seems like a pointless endeavour.


----------



## dzilizzi

mcalis said:


> The irony is that you probably would have the skill to make libraries work for you if you invested into what you already owned vs buying new stuff.
> 
> 
> Then again, it's your money, your life, your time, you can do as you like and it's not like I'm not ocassionally tempted to get something new and shiny rather than work with what I already have.
> 
> Still one of the most effective ways of dealing with this, for me at least, has been to listen to demos/walkthroughs of things I already have, to remind myself why I got them and what can be done with them. Works about 8 out of 10 times. I'd say.





Jeremy Spencer said:


> Why not dedicate time to developing those skills? You already have the tools and the passion. Otherwise, seems like a pointless endeavour.


I have found over my life, you generally have money or time, but not usually both. Right now, with my job, I have money. When I do have time, sitting in front of a computer is generally not what I want to do as I sit in front of one for 10 hours a day for work, though I have been forcing myself to do it more. 

But I have been taking composing classes when I have time which is a start. It does take time!


----------



## Lazer42

I appreciate the sentiment that one should invest in improving one's own skillset over getting a new library in the pursuit of a better sound, as well as the idea that one's own skill can make a big difference over and above the library itself.

That said, I also think the point gets overstated around here or that the legitimate question of the comparative quality of libraries is too readily dismissed. 

It's true that a skilled composer is going to be able to produce good sounding music using just about any tool, but that doesn't mean that the objective difference between different sounds doesn't matter. For example, a great MIDI programmer (or, heck, Beethoven or someone) could probably have made some great music using a 1980s Sound Blaster card, but if one is looking to write an orchestral track then BBCSO is still going to be a much better choice. In fact it seems to me that the logical conclusion of the more extreme version of the "just work on improving your own skills" mindset would be to ask why someone should get a _any _sample library _at all_ when they can just work on improving their own skills while composing on their piano or inexpensive keyboard. The answer, of course, is that a piano is a completely different instrument than an orchestra and while one could certainly improve one's musical skills on a piano, if the person wants to write for something that sounds like an orchestra than the piano isn't going to accomplish that. In a similar way, if a person just doesn't think library A produces the "instrument" sound the person is looking for, getting better with it might be a worthwhile endeavor but it's still not going to make the sound one wants. 

Compare this to cooking. If a person really wants to make good Pizza the person might need to buy a pizza stone, or even (as I've recently learned) a better pizza stone, or a pizza steel or something similar. They might be able to improve their overall cooking ability by making a bunch of pasta dishes, and they may even make better pizza with the improved skills they gained from working on pasta dishes! - but maybe they just want to eat a pizza right now! 

I wonder if this is actually a big part of the dynamic that underlies any divide between the "I want a new library" and the "just get better with what you have" perspectives: for some people, long term improvement is an important goal, while for others just making something that sounds good to them now is also a legitimate endeavor. A professional or someone looking to get into the industry could certainly gain a lot from trying to perfect their craft with imperfect tools. A hobbyist could, too. After all, part of a hobby surely involves getting better at it. At the same time, part of a hobby is also just having fun, and so there's nothing necessarily wrong with someone who has, say, Garritan or some other library and wants to be able to make music now that sounds better than that - just like there's nothing wrong with a person just wanting to make a good pizza for dinner tonight. Even on the professional side I think this applies. Yes, a professional should always be trying to improve, but at the same time there's a lot to be said for earning an income and being able to satisfy clients now, today. If a professional could theoretically improve at their skill to get a certain quality from the libraries they have, that's something they should do - but if all while continuing to try to improve they can produce better stuff for their clients today using one library than they could using another, there's also nothing wrong with using the other one to put out their best material today.

To be clear, I do think there's a big difference in all of this between a person who has a library or two and is looking for something that they think will address some deficiencies in what they have now versus a person who buys a new library every month constantly hoping it will make them John Williams or something. Clearly in the latter case "get better with what you have" is likely some helpful advice. I think the issue is that too often I see it presented too surely to those in the former group.


----------



## dzilizzi

Lazer42 said:


> I appreciate the sentiment that one should invest in improving one's own skillset over getting a new library in the pursuit of a better sound, as well as the idea that one's own skill can make a big difference over and above the library itself.
> 
> That said, I also think the point gets overstated around here or that the legitimate question of the comparative quality of libraries is too readily dismissed.
> 
> It's true that a skilled composer is going to be able to produce good sounding music using just about any tool, but that doesn't mean that the objective difference between different sounds doesn't matter. For example, a great MIDI programmer (or, heck, Beethoven or someone) could probably have made some great music using a 1980s Sound Blaster card, but if one is looking to write an orchestral track then BBCSO is still going to be a much better choice. In fact it seems to me that the logical conclusion of the more extreme version of the "just work on improving your own skills" mindset would be to ask why someone should get a _any _sample library _at all_ when they can just work on improving their own skills while composing on their piano or inexpensive keyboard. The answer, of course, is that a piano is a completely different instrument than an orchestra and while one could certainly improve one's musical skills on a piano, if the person wants to write for something that sounds like an orchestra than the piano isn't going to accomplish that. In a similar way, if a person just doesn't think library A produces the "instrument" sound the person is looking for, getting better with it might be a worthwhile endeavor but it's still not going to make the sound one wants.
> 
> Compare this to cooking. If a person really wants to make good Pizza the person might need to buy a pizza stone, or even (as I've recently learned) a better pizza stone, or a pizza steel or something similar. They might be able to improve their overall cooking ability by making a bunch of pasta dishes, and they may even make better pizza with the improved skills they gained from working on pasta dishes! - but maybe they just want to eat a pizza right now!
> 
> I wonder if this is actually a big part of the dynamic that underlies any divide between the "I want a new library" and the "just get better with what you have" perspectives: for some people, long term improvement is an important goal, while for others just making something that sounds good to them now is also a legitimate endeavor. A professional or someone looking to get into the industry could certainly gain a lot from trying to perfect their craft with imperfect tools. A hobbyist could, too. After all, part of a hobby surely involves getting better at it. At the same time, part of a hobby is also just having fun, and so there's nothing necessarily wrong with someone who has, say, Garritan or some other library and wants to be able to make music now that sounds better than that - just like there's nothing wrong with a person just wanting to make a good pizza for dinner tonight. Even on the professional side I think this applies. Yes, a professional should always be trying to improve, but at the same time there's a lot to be said for earning an income and being able to satisfy clients now, today. If a professional could theoretically improve at their skill to get a certain quality from the libraries they have, that's something they should do - but if all while continuing to try to improve they can produce better stuff for their clients today using one library than they could using another, there's also nothing wrong with using the other one to put out their best material today.
> 
> To be clear, I do think there's a big difference in all of this between a person who has a library or two and is looking for something that they think will address some deficiencies in what they have now versus a person who buys a new library every month constantly hoping it will make them John Williams or something. Clearly in the latter case "get better with what you have" is likely some helpful advice. I think the issue is that too often I see it presented too surely to those in the former group.


I do joke a lot about buying libraries to do the work for me. But truthfully, I know the library will only get me halfway there. And? The less you have to fuss with a library - like BBCSO - the easier it is to concentrate on the actual composing part. Of course, that's when I find out composing with orchestras is a lot more complicated than the pop/rock/singer-songwriter music I'm used to doing. It's the little things, like the harp glissandos, that make a piece magic.

I do get both sides of the argument. I'm hoping in 3.5 years when I have more time than money, I will be working more with learning all the secrets of how these libraries and plugins I've purchased really work to get the perfect sound. Okay, close to perfect?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

dzilizzi said:


> But I have been taking composing classes when I have time which is a start. It does take time!


Well, that's a start! Do you play piano? If not, I highly recommend formal piano lessons. I finally started this a few years ago, and it's astonishing how much it improves your composition skills. Plus, it gets you into being disciplined with a routine time-slot for music. I also work a full time job (non musical), but set aside time every night for music related stuff. If you don't you fall into the old "I plan on doing this one day" trap.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Well, that's a start! Do you play piano? If not, I highly recommend formal piano lessons. I finally started this a few years ago, and it's astonishing how much it improves your composition skills. Plus, it gets you into being disciplined with a routine time-slot for music. I also work a full time job (non musical), but set aside time every night for music related stuff. If you don't you fall into the old "I plan on doing this one day" trap.


I have taken lessons. I can play somewhat, but I am slowly getting arthritis in my hands - right now I have a compression sleeve on my left ring finger to keep it from bending. If I don't, it swells up. So keyboards can be a challenge. I am a singer. Many years of lessons.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Came here to learn more about Opus only to find out i need therapy.


----------



## dzilizzi

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Came here to learn more about Opus only to find out i need therapy.


We are still waiting.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

dzilizzi said:


> We are still waiting.





dzilizzi said:


> We are still waiting.


I know. I was just kidding and I'm mostly cured in fact. 

I'm mostly curious to see if Opus improves significantly as far articulation management/scripting. That's the only real reason why i would want to upgrade to Opus. All the extras are nice but are not worth much to me if they don't improves art. management. The only thing that impressed me so far are the new developers involved in the project. I wish EW good luck and i hope they make it easy and affordable for me to upgrade to Opus. Considering players from OT and VSL etc are free, i think it would make sense to make it as affordable as possible. Just so Opus is on par with others players mind you... Why would i pay $500 for an upgrade when i can buy Syncron Elite for the same price and get a whole new library? If i can do the math so can others.


----------



## dzilizzi

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I know. I was just kidding and I'm mostly cured in fact.
> 
> I'm mostly curious to see if Opus improves significantly as far articulation management/scripting. That's the only real reason why i would want to upgrade to Opus. All the extras are nice but are not worth much to me if they don't improves art. management. The only thing that impressed me so far are the new developers involved in the project. I wish EW good luck and i hope they make it easy and affordable for me to upgrade to Opus. Considering players from OT and VSL etc are free, i think it would make sense to make it as affordable as possible. Just so Opus is on par with others players mind you... Why would i pay $500 for an upgrade when i can buy Syncron Elite for the same price and get a whole new library? If i can do the math so can others.


It sounds like Opus will be mostly free for every other library but HWO because Opus for HWO will include additional library samples and fixes.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

dzilizzi said:


> It sounds like Opus will be mostly free for every other library but HWO because Opus for HWO will include additional library samples and fixes.


I'm not lucky then.


----------



## mcalis

@Lazer42

I think you may have taken the point to an extreme I didn't intend. I'm not disregarding the value of owning different libraries, nor would I ever want to deny someone the joy of getting a new set of sounds under their hands. People can do whatever the hell they want with their hard-earned cash, I really don't care.

That said, I sometimes notice people thinking that if they could just get their hands on such-and-such a sound, they'd be instantly transformed into a genius composer. No one thinks that literally, but the underlying assumption still floats around.

In your pizza analogy, I think where I come down is that you can make loads of different pizzas with relatively few ingredients. Or to put it differently: you don't necessarily need new ingredients to make a new pizza - or if you think you really need salt on your pizza, but you don't have salt, you could substitute with anchovies. Ingredients matter, sure, but your actual craft matters too. If all you've got is dough, tomatoes, cheese, and some basil, you can choose to either get more ingredients to make different pizzas, or become really good at making Pizza Margherita.

(First soup, now pizza, this thread is really turning around!)


----------



## dcoscina

Sorry if this has been covered already- if someone was to subscribe to Composer Cloud X (not Plus) do they get access to the Gold OPUS? I cannot believe it's 130gb for Gold with a single mic. My guess is that it's more like 40gb for the extra content, single mic. Composer Cloud is currently on sale for $19 USD. I might jump on it for a month to try out OPUS. $25 CAD is not bad to part with and I might like the sounds. I'm playing with HO Silver right now and there are actually some pretty nice sounds (I'm on my laptop, hence why I'm not playing the Gold or Diamond versions).


----------



## chocobitz825

This is why I support the middle ground. Buy all the libraries you want. Sonic variety is awesome! Just commit to reading the manual and playing with it for a bit so you know what you have. Then the next time you buy, you’ll know more about what you want next based on what you have now.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

dcoscina said:


> Sorry if this has been covered already- if someone was to subscribe to Composer Cloud X (not Plus) do they get access to the Gold OPUS? I cannot believe it's 130gb for Gold with a single mic. My guess is that it's more like 40gb for the extra content, single mic. Composer Cloud is currently on sale for $19 USD. I might jump on it for a month to try out OPUS. $25 CAD is not bad to part with and I might like the sounds. I'm playing with HO Silver right now and there are actually some pretty nice sounds (I'm on my laptop, hence why I'm not playing the Gold or Diamond versions).


I contacted support about this...Gold is 242 GB total (that sounds about right), and is included; you just don't get the multiple mic's and "moods". Strings in the Gold version will still be mid and close. I've been paying $19 CDN for CCX, and it's worth every penny if you use a lot EW libraries regularly.


----------



## dcoscina

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I contacted support about this...Gold is 242 GB total (that sounds about right), and is included; you just don't get the multiple mic's and "moods". Strings in the Gold version will still be mid and close. I've been paying $19 CDN for CCX, and it's worth every penny if you use a lot EW libraries regularly.


that must be the whole library tho, right? I have Gold Orch as well (bought separately) so I'm sure I won't need to download the entire thing for the new content. I guess I will find out in a week however.


----------



## DarinD

Looks like a 2nd mic position is offered with ComposerCloud X.







dcoscina said:


> Sorry if this has been covered already- if someone was to subscribe to Composer Cloud X (not Plus) do they get access to the Gold OPUS? I cannot believe it's 130gb for Gold with a single mic. My guess is that it's more like 40gb for the extra content, single mic. Composer Cloud is currently on sale for $19 USD. I might jump on it for a month to try out OPUS. $25 CAD is not bad to part with and I might like the sounds. I'm playing with HO Silver right now and there are actually some pretty nice sounds (I'm on my laptop, hence why I'm not playing the Gold or Diamond versions).


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

DarinD said:


> Looks like a 2nd mic position is offered with ComposerCloud X.


Yes, close mic’s.


----------



## odod

it is still quite high for the upgrade scheme ...


----------



## MauroPantin

Is it just me or is it looking more and more like the walkthroughs and other additional videos are... delayed. Cuz if so, just... LOL


----------



## emilio_n

MauroPantin said:


> Is it just me or is it looking more and more like the walkthroughs and other additional videos are... delayed. Cuz if so, just... LOL


I thought they will publish things earlier. For sure I am not the only one holding my decision depending on the extra before 20...
I am afraid that the walkthroughs are not ready...


----------



## Tremendouz

Who needs walkthroughs when it only takes one keypress to compose the next blockbuster soundtrack with the power of The Orchestrator™?


----------



## AndyP

MauroPantin said:


> Is it just me or is it looking more and more like the walkthroughs and other additional videos are... delayed. Cuz if so, just... LOL


No, we all almost feel that way. I hope someone will take pity to post the news here should something happen on Facebook. Homepages are overrated as a means of communication these days.


----------



## WillMah Gold

dcoscina said:


> Sorry if this has been covered already- if someone was to subscribe to Composer Cloud X (not Plus) do they get access to the Gold OPUS? I cannot believe it's 130gb for Gold with a single mic. My guess is that it's more like 40gb for the extra content, single mic. Composer Cloud is currently on sale for $19 USD. I might jump on it for a month to try out OPUS. $25 CAD is not bad to part with and I might like the sounds. I'm playing with HO Silver right now and there are actually some pretty nice sounds (I'm on my laptop, hence why I'm not playing the Gold or Diamond versions).


Maybe I am getting this wrong. I got the impression that you have to be a plus user to be able to use the extra content from Hoopus. Or do you just want the Opus software to try out the Gold Sounds? I was really annoyed that I upgraded from X to Plus because of Hocus Pocus, only to find out that I can no longer use my gold instruments and have to download the huge Diamaond variants instead. That really, really annoyed me!


----------



## MauroPantin

WillMah Gold said:


> Maybe I am getting this wrong. I got the impression that you have to be a plus user to be able to use the extra content from Hoopus. Or do you just want the Opus software to try out the Gold Sounds? I was really annoyed that I upgraded from X to Plus because of Hocus Pocus, only to find out that I can no longer use my gold instruments and have to download the huge Diamaond variants instead. That really, really annoyed me!


You can delete the mic positions you do not intend to use, the folder structure is fairly obvious and it works if you want to reduce the footprint. Still, OPUS will have download on demand for CC subscribers, so I think you may be able to just pick and choose the patches that work best for you and disregard the others


----------



## HardyP

can we please have someone, who is responsible to post the FAQ-HOOPUS as soon as a new page is necessary in this thread? Stating at the top, that any reply asking recurring stuff will be banned...?!?

Just sayin'...


----------



## Ronny D. Ana

odod said:


> it is still quite high for the upgrade scheme ...


No...it is simply too high (imho)


----------



## Evans

MauroPantin said:


> You can delete the mic positions you do not intend to use, the folder structure is fairly obvious and it works if you want to reduce the footprint. Still, OPUS will have download on demand for CC subscribers, so I think you may be able to just pick and choose the patches that work best for you and disregard the others


One issue (with Play, at least) is that you cannot delete a mic that loads as default with the instrument.

Well, you can, but then the instrument won't load even if other mics are present.


----------



## MauroPantin

Evans said:


> One issue (with Play, at least) is that you cannot delete a mic that loads as default with the instrument.
> 
> Well, you can, but then the instrument won't load even if other mics are present.


Yep. Correct, you need to re-save the "multi" or just the patch with what you consider your default mic position(s) OR keep the default and whatever else you need. It's definitely not perfect, but it has worked so far. Hopefully Opus solves some of these grievances


----------



## WillMah Gold

MauroPantin said:


> You can delete the mic positions you do not intend to use, the folder structure is fairly obvious and it works if you want to reduce the footprint. Still, OPUS will have download on demand for CC subscribers, so I think you may be able to just pick and choose the patches that work best for you and disregard the others


Thank you. And yes, I'm hoping and waiting for the "dowld single patch" option.


----------



## Toecutter

MauroPantin said:


> You can delete the mic positions you do not intend to use, the folder structure is fairly obvious and it works if you want to reduce the footprint.


I didn't know that, thanks! Do I get an error message if I try to enable the mic or the player is intelligent enough to know when the position isn't available?



MauroPantin said:


> OPUS will have download on demand for CC subscribers, so I think you may be able to just pick and choose the patches that work best for you and disregard the others


Patches only? Or microphones on demand too? Where you got this info from? (so many questions!!! XD)


----------



## Mike Fox

All I can say is that in the last 10 years of buying samples, I’ve never been more confused about a new launch. Well, N still baffles me, but ya get my point.


----------



## dzilizzi

Mike Fox said:


> All I can say is that in the last 10 years of buying samples, I’ve never been more confused about a new launch. Well, N still baffles me, but ya get my point.


Yes, but N lived up to the hype. Or down. Not sure which.


----------



## Mike Fox

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, but N lived up to the hype. Or down. Not sure which.


You might be onto something there.


----------



## Oakran

Man what the hell !! This "thing" will be released in 5 days and we still don't have any walkthrough or any demo out. So East West think that people will spend a couple hundred dollars purely based on trust ?


----------



## Evans

Oakran said:


> Man what the hell !! This "thing" will be released in 5 days and we still don't have any walkthrough or any demo out. So East West think that people will spend a couple hundred dollars purely based on trust ?


Yes.


----------



## Nimrod7




----------



## Trash Panda

Oakran said:


> Man what the hell !! This "thing" will be released in 5 days and we still don't have any walkthrough or any demo out. So East West think that people will spend a couple hundred dollars purely based on trust ?


Hey man, they won a lot of awards and had some really important people work on these things. Who are you to question such greatness? Get your wallet out and be thankful you have the opportunity to give them your hard earned cash.


----------



## MauroPantin

Toecutter said:


> I didn't know that, thanks! Do I get an error message if I try to enable the mic or the player is intelligent enough to know when the position isn't available?


It's been a while since I've done that because eventually I just got additional SSDs and solved it that way. But I remember some kind of error. Diamond patches are not designed to work when you try to load sounds that are not there. Nor is any other patch, I think. PLAY is not smart. Heck, even the patches for Gold and Diamond are different and not interchangeable. If you open an old project you did with Gold and now have Diamond... SUPRISE! You have to re-do the entire HO setup.



Toecutter said:


> Patches only? Or microphones on demand too? Where you got this info from? (so many questions!!! XD)


Patches, as far as I could tell. Like, "individual instruments" I think was the phrasing. This was all in the NAMM teaser.


----------



## Chungus

Nimrod7 said:


>



Went on YT and liked and favourite'd that right quick. You deserves it.


----------



## cqd

Classic..


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Oakran said:


> Man what the hell !! This "thing" will be released in 5 days and we still don't have any walkthrough or any demo out. So East West think that people will spend a couple hundred dollars purely based on trust ?


Isn't there a demo like, on the main page, in a pretty cool player that allows one to isolate stems and listen to instrument families directly? That's been discussed on this thread quite extensively?


----------



## Trax

I wonder how many here will hate purchase, that is purchase it only so you can say you have it and hate it.

No demos needed for such purchases.


----------



## Oakran

curtisschweitzer said:


> Isn't there a demo like, on the main page, in a pretty cool player that allows one to isolate stems and listen to instrument families directly? That's been discussed on this thread quite extensively?


Well for some reason I didn't see it ! I must have assumed it was just a screenshot from the mixer interface ^^ Thanks I'll check it out


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

curtisschweitzer said:


> Isn't there a demo like, on the main page, in a pretty cool player that allows one to isolate stems and listen to instrument families directly? That's been discussed on this thread quite extensively?


That’s cool if you’re a total noob and you’ve never tried to use a virtual mixer. Other than that, I see no value in that “Demo”. The isolated tracks don’t even sound that great.


----------



## ChazC

curtisschweitzer said:


> Isn't there a demo like, on the main page, in a pretty cool player that allows one to isolate stems and listen to instrument families directly? That's been discussed on this thread quite extensively?


No demo or walkthrough of the much vaunted "create a blockbuster within seconds" Orchestrator though.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

Nimrod7 said:


>



I have been following this thread for the last ~100 pages. It was worth it because of this video.


----------



## ChazC

I was actually (despite the poor exchange rate between the USD-AUD) prepared to drop the $495 USD on Opus when the release date was announced once I'd seen walkthroughs of the extra content and the orchestrator just to be certain of what I'd be getting. We're now at t minus 5 days and nothing from EW. Not. One. Thing. Not even a post on the FB page since the release date announcement. Reminds me of at least one OT release (which I passed on due the the very fact of delayed demos/walkthroughs). I fail to understand the logic.

The only thing it does tell me is that EW are now solely focused on their subscription customers who are going to get the product anyway so no time and effort needed on a demo or walkthrough.

At this point I'm prepared to take the risk on seeing it once it's actually out (there's still no guarantee it'll land on the 20th anyway) and waiting for any possible future sale price on the upgrade. Knowing EW it'll be actually cheaper to buy it outright during a sale than upgrading anyway so either way it's still going to end up at around $500 most likely.

What a shoddy way to run a company.


----------



## cqd

They're just trying to weed out the weak hands..

They know it's going to rock, so they want you to have to rush the decision after the videos come out..

After Tuesday then another ton onto the price..


----------



## ThomasS

ChazC said:


> What a shoddy way to run a company.


It all depends on how you look at it.

We will know if you are right or wrong only after Opus is released and see how good/bad it is. If it turns out great, and the orchestrator writes blockbuster trailers with the push of a button, and the new platform kicks ass, etc., then we were all wrong and EW did the right thing business-wise.

We just don't know because we have no evidence, only pre-release hype. This whole thread has been a bit of a waste of time because we're talking about something we know virtually nothing about (yet). If they don't release on the 20th, their name is shit for sure, and we'll know it was just a grab for more subscription bucks. But if they release on the 20th and the reviews and demos are great, then the cloud subscription will start to look good to a lot of people, even existing users of HW, because a year (or even two) of cloud subscription will be cheaper than an "upgrade" from HO and it is likely that whatever you buy these days (at whatever price) will be superseded in two years by something better anyway.

So perhaps their high upgrade/purchase price is designed to push everyone (new and old) into the subscription model. Maybe they think their potential "new" market is more lucrative than their existing customer base, so they don't give a damn about existing users. If so, this really is "shoddy" because there should be a way to both attract new users and keep existing ones happy at the same time.

It appears they have a lot of confidence in Opus, and believe it will kick serious orchestral butt. We'll find out soon enough. The clock is ticking (should they cut the red wire or the blue?) Will anything go off on the 20th? Will it be a bang or a whimper?


----------



## chocobitz825

ThomasS said:


> It all depends on how you look at it.
> 
> We will know if you are right or wrong only after O'piss is released and see how good/bad it is. If it turns out great, and the orchestrator writes blockbuster trailers with the push of a button, and the new platform kicks ass, etc., then we were all wrong and EW did the right thing business-wise.
> 
> We just don't know because we have no evidence, only pre-release hype. This whole thread has been a bit of a waste of time because we're talking about something we know virtually nothing about (yet). If they don't release on the 20th, their name is shit for sure, and we'll know it was just a grab for more subscription bucks. But if they release on the 20th and the reviews and demos are great, then the cloud subscription will start to look good to a lot of people, even existing users of HW, because a year (or even two) of cloud ownership of O'piss will be cheaper than an "upgrade" and it is likely that whatever you buy these days (at whatever price) will be superseded in two years by something better anyway.
> 
> So perhaps their high upgrade/purchase price is designed to push everyone (new and old) into the subscription model. Maybe they think their potential "new" market is more lucrative than their existing customer base, so they don't give a damn about existing users. If so, this really is "shoddy" because there should be a way to both attract new users and keep existing ones happy at the same time.
> 
> It appears they have a lot of confidence in O'piss, and believe it will kick serious orchestral butt. We'll find out soon enough. The clock is ticking (should they cut the red wire or the blue?) Will anything go off on the 20th? Will it be a bang or a whimper?


Not to fuel any fomo here, but what’s the likelihood that this comes out, it’s incredible, and people are going to demand they reinstate the pre-order price?


----------



## Trax

chocobitz825 said:


> Not to fuel any fomo here, but what’s the likelihood that this comes out, it’s incredible, and people are going to demand they reinstate the pre-order price?


People are already demanding they charge less.


----------



## Evans

Trax said:


> People are already demanding they charge less.


Which is kind of funny, since the limited information means that I, for one, haven't the slightest idea if it's good or bad. It could be amazing and I'd pay $200 more. It could be awful and a waste of a single dollar. 

No clue, at this point.


----------



## Johnny

Trax said:


> I remember reading that this was their best legato re the new strings





Nimrod7 said:


>



A spat wine out everywhere!!! OH my gosh... This was the funniest video that I have seen in all of my entire life! This prints money!


----------



## chocobitz825

Trax said:


> People are already demanding they charge less.


It’d be a miracle if they did that...so I’m considering the scenario in which people hear the results, see the product and feel it’s worth pulling the trigger.


----------



## cqd

Walkthrough for the orchestrator is up..

OMG!!!!!


----------



## Lazer42

cqd said:


> Walkthrough for the orchestrator is up..
> 
> OMG!!!!!


Where?

Edit:


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

cqd said:


> Walkthrough for the orchestrator is up..
> 
> OMG!!!!!


Nice!

It's not on their website yet - I imagine it will be soon. Posted on their Facebook page as well.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, I just saw on the book of faces..

Looks pretty epic so far..


----------



## EgM

Lazer42 said:


> Where?
> 
> Edit:



Facebook


----------



## cqd

I am gonna be so talented once this drops..


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

cqd said:


> Yeah, I just saw on the book of faces..
> 
> Looks pretty epic so far..


Agreed - if nothing else, it is a bit like orchestration recipes and could be a nice learning tool.


----------



## cqd

Does look pretty cool though..


----------



## Lazer42

I am still interested in OPUS overall, and to be honest I was never really interested in the Orchestrator because I thought it was going to be something like this demo shows it to be.

I just really hate this trend in the industry right now of software which essentially writes music for you out of a bunch of pre-written phrases, ostinatos, etc. Now in fairness, it does look like while this product will do that, it will also do some other things which are more in the way of tools for arranging and such, so that's good, but as for the overall idea? I want libraries and tools to make it easier for me to write music, not to plagiarize from John Williams or others (and some of the examples in the walkthrough were pretty blatant, to put it lightly!)

And to reiterate, this is not just an East West thing. It's being done across the industry. This just happens to be an example of it.

(By the way, what score is being copied around the 7:30 mark with the "The Planet 01" preset? It's very familiar but I'm having a hard time placing it exactly.)


----------



## cqd

Star wars/Mars..


----------



## Toecutter

Nimrod7 said:


>



I lold very hard but in the end I was kinda depressed at how accurate this video is


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lazer42 said:


> I am still interested in OPUS overall, and to be honest I was never really interested in the Orchestrator because I thought it was going to be something like this demo shows it to be.
> 
> I just really hate this trend in the industry right now of software which essentially writes music for you out of a bunch of pre-written phrases, ostinatos, etc. Now in fairness, it does look like while this product will do that, it will also do some other things which are more in the way of tools for arranging and such, so that's good, but as for the overall idea? I want libraries and tools to make it easier for me to write music, not to plagiarize from John Williams or others (and some of the examples in the walkthrough were pretty blatant, to put it lightly!)
> 
> And to reiterate, this is not just an East West thing. It's being done across the industry. This just happens to be an example of it.
> 
> (By the way, what score is being copied around the 7:30 mark with the "The Planet 01" preset? It's very familiar but I'm having a hard time placing it exactly.)


What do you consider score study? Or learning a new piece? We're all copying from somebody that came before us. You can either use Orchestrator as is and just print it, or you can use it to speed up some commonly used figures, or as stated above, you can use it to learn (via a different medium) how the greats do things and then try to incorporate that into your writing.


----------



## Toecutter

It's basically The Orchestra with better gui and sounds. CPU use is crazy high considering the low number of tracks playing in some of those examples. This needs to be improved drastically, at least CC = free beta testers XD


----------



## szczaw

Come up with some melodies and chord progressions, send the latter to Opus, and you're done


----------



## janila

It’s a broken Sonokinetic library.


----------



## cqd

Wonder what the export/import midi situation is..

Or can you switch between presets?..

(It's true for toecutter..CPU is pretty wild..)


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Walkthrough sounds pretty cool, I must admit. It‘s funny though, that one score preset sounds like the intro to JW’s Superman soundtrack!


----------



## szczaw

Maybe they could hire JW to make some original presets.


----------



## cqd

These things do kind of end up finicky and more hassle than they're worth a lot of the time too though..


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Oakran said:


> Well for some reason I didn't see it ! I must have assumed it was just a screenshot from the mixer interface ^^ Thanks I'll check it out


Same here, passed completely over it. They need to write DEMO above it.


----------



## Toecutter

cqd said:


> These things do kind of end up finicky and more hassle than they're worth a lot of the time too though..


Yea, gimmicky... I mean it's cool for hobbyists but who would you use this in paid gigs? Even under the most intense stress I would not want to NOT write all the music myself. Feels almost like cheating, that's why I don't care about libraries like Sonokinetic or The Orchestra. Even for adding underlying movement if you know your stuff you do it much faster and better than any software. And it doesnt sound so obvious that it's a freaking machine doing the work for you.


----------



## cqd

Toecutter said:


> Gimmicky... I mean it's cool for hobbyists but who would you use this in paid gigs? Even under the most intense stress I would not want to NOT write all the music myself. Feels almost like cheating, that's why I don't care about libraries like Sonokinetic or The Orchestra. Even for adding underlying movement if you know your stuff you do it much faster and better than any software. And it doesnt sound so obvious that it's a freaking machine doing the work for you.


Yeah, true enough..but then..yeah, for just kind of rhythmic backing and stuff could be handy too..And then they're saved to use again..
Doesn't look like you can switch between orchestrations easily..


----------



## szczaw

It would be nice if I could skip the Orchestrator part and upgrade the diamond for $200.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

YouTube video for those that prefer that:


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Toecutter said:


> Yea, gimmicky... I mean it's cool for hobbyists but who would you use this in paid gigs? Even under the most intense stress I would not want to NOT write all the music myself. Feels almost like cheating, that's why I don't care about libraries like Sonokinetic or The Orchestra. Even for adding underlying movement if you know your stuff you do it much faster and better than any software. And it doesnt sound so obvious that it's a freaking machine doing the work for you.


I think it's best to look at those as tools and not to be judgemental about it so as to not get stuck in the pass. It's juts a more positive attitude and you might find you like to use these tools in the end or find them inspiring somehow.


----------



## chocobitz825

sounds like they’ve mastered the drug dealer method....

get you hooked...then create a drought and keep you wanting for me...then give you just a taste, and then tell you that you’re getting a deal on some top grade stuff....

i imagine as videos continue to come out, the mood of this thread will temporarily change as well....


----------



## MauroPantin

Patch naming as it comes up when the instruments are loaded seems to have been improved. Or at least it doesn't seem as cryptic and intimidating as the original HO had it. Not that it matters now, most users already had it down, but good on them for making that easier to figure out for new users.

The GUI seems nice. It sounds great, too. A bit of high CPU usage. Maybe it is a mid-tier laptop or something. But I wonder... is it too soon for this?






Also, I have to admit that whilst I have no interest in using the orchestrator for any work, this looks like a cool toy to play around with.


----------



## Trax

I just want a library walk through. 

Still have no use for Orchestrator, but that looks like a fun toy to play with.


----------



## Lazer42

ALittleNightMusic said:


> What do you consider score study? Or learning a new piece? We're all copying from somebody that came before us. You can either use Orchestrator as is and just print it, or you can use it to speed up some commonly used figures, or as stated above, you can use it to learn (via a different medium) how the greats do things and then try to incorporate that into your writing.


I agree that studying others' work and learning from it is a good thing to do, but I don't see this sort of software features as accomplishing or aiding that, nor as being designed to do that. Looking over someone's work is one thing, or even making a mockup from someone else's work. You can learn a lot there. 

This kind of feature just plays it for you, though. You don't even see the notes, but just play a chord and suddenly you get John Williams coming out - and that seems to be how it's being marketed (and presumably what it's designed for). It sure seems like the idea is to literally write your own music using these presets.


----------



## Trax

MauroPantin said:


> Also, I have to admit that whilst I have no interest in using the orchestrator for any work, this looks like a cool toy to play around with.


Do I just delete my message now and write ditto?

Orchestrator is preset filters for your chords.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lazer42 said:


> I agree that studying others' work and learning from it is a good thing to do, but I don't see this sort of software features as accomplishing or aiding that, nor as being designed to do that. Looking over someone's work is one thing, or even making a mockup from someone else's work. You can learn a lot there.
> 
> This kind of feature just plays it for you, though. You don't even see the notes, but just play a chord and suddenly you get John Williams coming out - and that seems to be how it's being marketed (and presumably what it's designed for). It sure seems like the idea is to literally write your own music using these presets.


From what I gleaned from the video, you do see the notes for each section. And you can program your own. There may even be a way to export it. So it is effectively just notation, except in MIDI.

How you use it vs. others, it's all personal preference. These are all tools. Tools that make making music easier and more fun. Or do you make all your own samples? Does John Powell orchestrate all of his pieces himself? Is John Williams mixing all his recordings? Everybody can use help in different areas.


----------



## cqd

The different section ensemble patches look pretty cool too..


----------



## chocobitz825

Toecutter said:


> Yea, gimmicky... I mean it's cool for hobbyists but who would you use this in paid gigs? Even under the most intense stress I would not want to NOT write all the music myself. Feels almost like cheating, that's why I don't care about libraries like Sonokinetic or The Orchestra. Even for adding underlying movement if you know your stuff you do it much faster and better than any software. And it doesnt sound so obvious that it's a freaking machine doing the work for you.


i dont think clients care who did it so long it doesnt get them sued for copyright infringement. If it works for folks, more power to them.


----------



## Chaosmod

Toecutter said:


> Yea, gimmicky... I mean it's cool for hobbyists but who would you use this in paid gigs? Even under the most intense stress I would not want to NOT write all the music myself. Feels almost like cheating, that's why I don't care about libraries like Sonokinetic or The Orchestra. Even for adding underlying movement if you know your stuff you do it much faster and better than any software. And it doesnt sound so obvious that it's a freaking machine doing the work for you.


Fantastic, monumental sketching tool, imo. I would use it to lay the groundwork and then flesh it out. As they say, huge timesaver. Two thumbs way up.


----------



## dzilizzi

cqd said:


> I am gonna be so talented once this drops..


This is what I was thinking as well. I can impress my family and friends with my great orchestral skills!


----------



## Frederick

Now if only you could view the track you are running the orchestrator in as a pure control track and have all the midi resulting from the orchestrator automatically exported into the corresponding instrument tracks in your daw.


----------



## Jack All

Frederick said:


> Now if only you could view the track you are running the orchestrator in as a pure control track and have all the midi resulting from the orchestrator automatically exported into the corresponding instrument tracks in your daw.


Yes I agree - that would be fantastic. I think it will come one day.

I'm so tempted by this product. I think it looks and sounds fantastic. So well thought of and executed. I already own other orchestra libraries - so I know I shouldn't buy - but I think I will.

If I was staring out today that is the orchestra I would buy. For $799 it's a steal.


----------



## AndyP

I can't find much negative about the orchestrator. I don't need to use the presets and whether I set notes in the piano roll or here makes no difference. However, here I can play creatively with my ideas and quickly perform chord changes.
Already strongly resembles The Orchestra with some improvements. I think it's not bad.

The overuse of these tools can quickly make a composition look static. As a basis for ideas that I then refine with variations I find it useful. If I can export that to the DAW it's cool.

I also don't consider it cheating if I'm not intensively processing the score presets into a new track. In the end, isn't it the idea that counts? How it comes about doesn't matter to the listener in the end.


----------



## ThomasS

Frederick said:


> Now if only you could view the track you are running the orchestra in as a pure control track and have all the midi resulting from the orchestrator automatically exported into the corresponding instrument tracks in your daw.


I was immediately wondering about this too. All the note information is there somewhere in the program, so it should be possible to have midi export if they want you to have it. The Orchestra (Sonuscore) didn't have midi export at first, but it was added later. 

If the Orchestrator already has midi export I am surprised it is not mentioned in this walkthrough. I don't like the cookie-cutter approach to voicing chords and assigning rhythms, but if I can tweak the midi later it would be useful (at least for sketching/composing/experimenting if not for final orchestration).

Perhaps if you mute all but one instrument you can take that and tweak it in midi. (if not, I suppose in audio, of course.) We'll wait and see.

It only reassigns notes in the chord you play, but if you want a note to alter to a non-chordal passing tone you have to carefully play that with your right hand, but even then it must always be in the right position (top, bottom, middle) in your close voicing. So this is rather limited in terms of composition. If you are writing a separate melody over the top of a preset you may want to move a particiluar tone to avoid conflict or harmonize the melody, etc, and midi export would enable you to do this quickly. 

Personally, it is unlikely I would ever use the presets unaltered in a final mix, even if it is not reminiscent (copied!) from an obvious source, but simply because I know others _could_ use it at anytime and I will be unoriginal sooner or later.

But I am excited about making my own presets, and will certainly have fun messing around with it.


----------



## dzilizzi

I think for those who regularly write music, may this isn't necessarily helpful. But I can potential for sound design with this, especially if you can split out the signal and add effects to some instruments and not others. It is a lot like using something from Heavyocity. 

I also hope we will be able to export midi.


----------



## Markrs

Just watched the walkthrough and super impressed with it. Has certainly made me more excited to get the update for CCX. I think they will get a few more upgrade sales with these walkthroughs if they are as good as this one as you can now better see the value.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

The Scores examples in the video sounded amazing to me - especially the Dark Hero, Superhero, and The Planets ones. Orchestration Recipes (which is amazing!) is like $50 for 30 recipes (and completely worth it). This has what looks like at least 120 just in the Scores section (and maybe they can add more as free updates). So, $200 just for that if trying to get that elsewhere? Plus all the other orchestrator functionality, the new recordings and the more flexible player (this video clearly shows they finally consolidated the patch list - hallelujah!).


----------



## AndyP

However, the cpu load raises questions. Without midi export function, the use of multiple instances may be limited even on machines with more power without freezing and converting to an audio track


----------



## Serge Pavkin

ThomasS said:


> I was immediately wondering about this too. All the note information is there somewhere in the program, so it should be possible to have midi export if they want you to have it. The Orchestra (Sonuscore) didn't have midi export at first, but it was added later.
> 
> If the Orchestrator already has midi export I am surprised it is not mentioned in this walkthrough. I don't like the cookie-cutter approach to voicing chords and assigning rhythms, but if I can tweak the midi later it would be useful (at least for sketching/composing/experimenting if not for final orchestration).
> 
> Perhaps if you mute all but one instrument you can take that and tweak it in midi. (if not, I suppose in audio, of course.) We'll wait and see.
> 
> It only reassigns notes in the chord you play, but if you want a note to alter to a non-chordal passing tone you have to carefully play that with your right hand, but even then it must always be in the right position (top, bottom, middle) in your close voicing. So this is rather limited in terms of composition. If you are writing a separate melody over the top of a preset you may want to move a particiluar tone to avoid conflict or harmonize the melody, etc, and midi export would enable you to do this quickly.
> 
> Personally, it is unlikely I would ever use the presets unaltered in a final mix, even if it is not reminiscent (copied!) from an obvious source, but simply because I know others _could_ use it at anytime and I will be unoriginal sooner or later.
> 
> But I am excited about making my own presets, and will certainly have fun messing around with it.


Yes, adding midi exports to PercX has become an important thing as well. I just couldn't master the internal sequencer. And possibility of random parts selection would also be nice.


----------



## Zedcars

Lazer42 said:


> I am still interested in OPUS overall, and to be honest I was never really interested in the Orchestrator because I thought it was going to be something like this demo shows it to be.
> 
> I just really hate this trend in the industry right now of software which essentially writes music for you out of a bunch of pre-written phrases, ostinatos, etc. Now in fairness, it does look like while this product will do that, it will also do some other things which are more in the way of tools for arranging and such, so that's good, but as for the overall idea? I want libraries and tools to make it easier for me to write music, not to plagiarize from John Williams or others (and some of the examples in the walkthrough were pretty blatant, to put it lightly!)
> 
> And to reiterate, this is not just an East West thing. It's being done across the industry. This just happens to be an example of it.
> 
> (By the way, what score is being copied around the 7:30 mark with the "The Planet 01" preset? It's very familiar but I'm having a hard time placing it exactly.)


Yeah, it’s not as if John Williams ever plagiarised anyone... 

You know what happens when you photocopy a photocopy of a photocopy? The quality degrades.


----------



## Dex

AndyP said:


> I can't find much negative about the orchestrator.


The ends of phrases are always weak (like with any arpeggiator). Midi export is necessary.


----------



## Christoph18

Under the FAQ section on their site it states: 

"Can I upgrade just a section of the Orchestra to the Opus Edition?

The upgrade to the Opus Edition is only for the full Hollywood Orchestra with all seven orchestra sections (Brass, Percussion, Strings, Woodwinds, Solo Violin, Solo Cello, and Harp). Individual sections cannot be upgraded."

That's a bummer. I thought you only need Strings, Brass, Woodwinds and Percussion.


----------



## dr-music

Ensembles = internal Divisimate, but Divisimate has MIDI export by design and works with any other libs as well.


----------



## Blakus

Christoph18 said:


> Under the FAQ section on their site it states:
> 
> "Can I upgrade just a section of the Orchestra to the Opus Edition?
> 
> The upgrade to the Opus Edition is only for the full Hollywood Orchestra with all seven orchestra sections (Brass, Percussion, Strings, Woodwinds, Solo Violin, Solo Cello, and Harp). Individual sections cannot be upgraded."
> 
> That's a bummer. I thought you only need Strings, Brass, Woodwinds and Percussion.


If that's true, that's a bit of a slap in the face (in addition to the cheekily high upgrade price) imo.
Any normal person would assume that only the Strings/Brass/WW/Perc would be required.


----------



## SupremeFist

Christoph18 said:


> Under the FAQ section on their site it states:
> 
> "Can I upgrade just a section of the Orchestra to the Opus Edition?
> 
> The upgrade to the Opus Edition is only for the full Hollywood Orchestra with all seven orchestra sections (Brass, Percussion, Strings, Woodwinds, Solo Violin, Solo Cello, and Harp). Individual sections cannot be upgraded."
> 
> That's a bummer. I thought you only need Strings, Brass, Woodwinds and Percussion.


You were right. This just means you can only upgrade to the full package which now includes all of those.


----------



## Markrs

Christoph18 said:


> Under the FAQ section on their site it states:
> 
> "Can I upgrade just a section of the Orchestra to the Opus Edition?
> 
> The upgrade to the Opus Edition is only for the full Hollywood Orchestra with all seven orchestra sections (Brass, Percussion, Strings, Woodwinds, Solo Violin, Solo Cello, and Harp). Individual sections cannot be upgraded."
> 
> That's a bummer. I thought you only need Strings, Brass, Woodwinds and Percussion.


One of the advantages of Opus is listed as:

Includes all Hollywood Solo Instruments ($299 value)
Which wouldn't be an advantage of you already owned them


----------



## emilio_n

Christoph18 said:


> Under the FAQ section on their site it states:
> 
> "Can I upgrade just a section of the Orchestra to the Opus Edition?
> 
> The upgrade to the Opus Edition is only for the full Hollywood Orchestra with all seven orchestra sections (Brass, Percussion, Strings, Woodwinds, Solo Violin, Solo Cello, and Harp). Individual sections cannot be upgraded."
> 
> That's a bummer. I thought you only need Strings, Brass, Woodwinds and Percussion.


I have only the 4 main sections so I wrote them to ask. They said I can upgrade without the solo instruments section. I found an official answer of EW on their Facebook as well saying the same.

If I need to buy the solo sections to upgrade to OPUS is cheaper to buy a new licence!!


----------



## Markrs

I found this interesting:

Will I be able to upgrade to the Opus engine without buying Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition?

Currently you must purchase Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition to get the OPUS software. People who purchase any product post-release will also get OPUS. All ComposerCloud members will automatically get OPUS. *But we are going to wait a while before allowing previous PLAY product purchasers to upgrade in order to assist our support team during this major upgrade period. When we do provide that option, it will be a paid upgrade.*
So at a later date you sell be able to buy just an upgrade to Opus for all EW sample libraries excluding Hollywood Orchestra.


----------



## gamma-ut

Christoph18 said:


> Under the FAQ section on their site it states:
> 
> "Can I upgrade just a section of the Orchestra to the Opus Edition?
> 
> The upgrade to the Opus Edition is only for the full Hollywood Orchestra with all seven orchestra sections (Brass, Percussion, Strings, Woodwinds, Solo Violin, Solo Cello, and Harp). Individual sections cannot be upgraded."
> 
> That's a bummer. I thought you only need Strings, Brass, Woodwinds and Percussion.


There are two ways to read that. One is that you need all seven sections already (which wasn't my understanding and is going to lead to some unhappiness on the 20th if it is the case). The other is that you can't get individual sections: the upgrade involves buying into all seven sections.

Worth checking with support though if you do pull the trigger on the pre-order but from what I've seen I don't think you need the solos to upgrade.

One additional thing from the FAQ that's worth noting about who gets Opus post release and who doesn't - I may have missed it earlier in the thread but from what I've seen I think there's an assumption Opus will be rolled out for other products to existing owners (which doesn't seem to be the case, and it would be consistent with what they did with the last major version change to Play IIRC):

_"Currently you must purchase Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition to get the OPUS software. People who *purchase any product post-release will also get OPUS*. All ComposerCloud members will automatically get OPUS. *But we are going to wait a while before allowing previous PLAY product purchasers to upgrade* in order to assist our support team during this major upgrade period. When we do provide that option, *it will be a paid upgrade.*"_


----------



## Christoph18

Yes, good. Thank you all. I guess it may be a bit badly worded.


----------



## Markrs

gamma-ut said:


> There are two ways to read that. One is that you need all seven sections already (which wasn't my understanding and is going to lead to some unhappiness on the 20th if it is the case). The other is that you can't get individual sections: the upgrade involves buying into all seven sections.
> 
> Worth checking with support though if you do pull the trigger on the pre-order but from what I've seen I don't think you need the solos to upgrade.
> 
> One additional thing from the FAQ that's worth noting about who gets Opus post release and who doesn't - I may have missed it earlier in the thread but from what I've seen I think there's an assumption Opus will be rolled out for other products to existing owners (which doesn't seem to be the case, and it would be consistent with what they did with the last major version change to Play IIRC):
> 
> _"Currently you must purchase Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition to get the OPUS software. People who *purchase any product post-release will also get OPUS*. All ComposerCloud members will automatically get OPUS. *But we are going to wait a while before allowing previous PLAY product purchasers to upgrade* in order to assist our support team during this major upgrade period. When we do provide that option, *it will be a paid upgrade.*"_


I noticed that too


----------



## szczaw

Markrs said:


> I found this interesting:
> 
> Will I be able to upgrade to the Opus engine without buying Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition?
> 
> Currently you must purchase Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition to get the OPUS software. People who purchase any product post-release will also get OPUS. All ComposerCloud members will automatically get OPUS. *But we are going to wait a while before allowing previous PLAY product purchasers to upgrade in order to assist our support team during this major upgrade period. When we do provide that option, it will be a paid upgrade.*
> So at a later date you sell be able to buy just an upgrade to Opus for all EW sample libraries excluding Hollywood Orchestra.


I see absolutely no point in upgrading other libraries, unless they also make use of Orchestrator.


----------



## gamma-ut

Markrs said:


> I noticed that too


Well, yes. But I didn't see your post until I posted. A bunch all came in at once if you look at the timestamps.

EDIT: Sorry, seems more churlish in hindsight than it was meant to be.


----------



## Markrs

gamma-ut said:


> Well, yes. But I didn't see your post until I posted. A bunch all came in at once if you look at the timestamps.


Sorry I didn't mean to say you shouldn't have posted, I realised that we posted pretty much at the same time. More that, that section jumped out at me as well when looking at the FAQs


----------



## MarcusD

The orchestrator is very nice. I like it assigns the seperate note ranges correctly to the chords. Definitely save time in Cubase trying to do something similar (but not as effective) with MIDI sends and chord pads.


----------



## AndyP

Unfortunately, I couldn't figure out from the video if you also have access to the divisi strings in Diamant. That would be quite an option to work with some kind of autodivisi function.
So I find the orchestrator idea quite useful if that works with all HO patches.


----------



## chocobitz825

Zedcars said:


> Yeah, it’s not as if John Williams ever plagiarised anyone...
> 
> You know what happens when you photocopy a photocopy of a photocopy? The quality degrades.


and still the question for the times is...of the consumers and companies paying for the results of this labor...how many of them really care about the artistic integrity and quality?


----------



## Christof

That means actually Hollywood Orchestra Opus replaces the older editions such as Hollywood strings and brass?


----------



## jaketanner

For the amount of time EW invested in creating this engine, they could have released OPUS months ago or even sooner.

I can't imagine that this orchestrator will appeal to those that already have EW libraries...either through a sub, or purchase. Reason is that this seems like it's either for true beginners (although you do need some kind of knowledge), or an experienced orchestrator that's just looking for a faster way to work and knows what he/she is doing...it's a tool and I get that, and maybe it can solve some writer's block from time to time...but I personally can't see spending the time to learn this thing or even use it. I actually enjoy orchestrating and playing in my parts...


----------



## Markrs

jaketanner said:


> For the amount of time EW invested in creating this engine, they could have released OPUS months ago or even sooner.
> 
> I can't imagine that this orchestrator will appeal to those that already have EW libraries...either through a sub, or purchase. Reason is that this seems like it's either for true beginners (although you do need some kind of knowledge), or an experienced orchestrator that's just looking for a faster way to work and knows what he/she is doing...it's a tool and I get that, and maybe it can solve some writer's block from time to time...but I personally can't see spending the time to learn this thing or even use it. I actually enjoy orchestrating and playing in my parts...


One of the things I like is it creates ensembles, but ensembles where you select which key (top, middle, bottom) effects which instrument, a bit like Divisimate. This allows you to still write in the parts (though I agree, that playing in each part separately gives you more control) but quicker.


----------



## Braveheart

jaketanner said:


> For the amount of time EW invested in creating this engine, they could have released OPUS months ago or even sooner.
> 
> I can't imagine that this orchestrator will appeal to those that already have EW libraries...either through a sub, or purchase. Reason is that this seems like it's either for true beginners (although you do need some kind of knowledge), or an experienced orchestrator that's just looking for a faster way to work and knows what he/she is doing...it's a tool and I get that, and maybe it can solve some writer's block from time to time...but I personally can't see spending the time to learn this thing or even use it. I actually enjoy orchestrating and playing in my parts...


Everyone has been a beginner at some point, so there’s a big potential market for that.


----------



## Markrs

Braveheart said:


> Everyone has been a beginner at some point, so there’s a big potential market for that.


I agree, there are always more beginners than experienced users to market to.


----------



## AndyP

I don't see the potential limited to beginners. The score presets aside, the tool can facilitate the work.
I see the score presets more as a guide or for people who want to make a mockup of existing scores. However, the Orchestra I have also used from time to time for ostinatos and exchanged the sounds after midi export. Whether this is worth 299¢ is another question.


----------



## BasariStudios

Trax said:


> I wonder how many here will hate purchase, that is purchase it only so you can say you have it and hate it.
> 
> No demos needed for such purchases.


I will most likely buy it just to make a Video
about all this Drama surrounding Hoopus.


----------



## jaketanner

Braveheart said:


> Everyone has been a beginner at some point, so there’s a big potential market for that.


yes...I agree. I just think that the majority of EW users are not beginners...the library is not very beginner friendly, and I think requires some knowledge to really take advantage of it (at least with Play and the way it was laid out). It may very well bring in possibly students as well...but don't see it at all as a pro's choice...just not sure who they are marketing this for, because it also seems like you need some kind of knowledge to take full advantage of it.


----------



## jaketanner

AndyP said:


> I don't see the potential limited to beginners. The score presets aside, the tool can facilitate the work.
> I see the score presets more as a guide or for people who want to make a mockup of existing scores. However, the Orchestra I have also used from time to time for ostinatos and exchanged the sounds after midi export. Whether this is worth 299¢ is another question.


SF has had Ostinato in their GUI for some time now. Personally never used it, but it was there and from what I remember pretty decent as well.


----------



## cqd

BasariStudios said:


> I will most likely buy it just to make a Video
> about all this Drama surrounding Hoopus.


You can't anyway..
We've discussed this..


----------



## Markrs

jaketanner said:


> yes...I agree. I just think that the majority of EW users are not beginners...the library is not very beginner friendly, and I think requires some knowledge to really take advantage of it (at least with Play and the way it was laid out). It may very well bring in possibly students as well...but don't see it at all as a pro's choice...just not sure who they are marketing this for, because it also seems like you need some kind of knowledge to take full advantage of it.


I would disagree due to the subscription model being affordable especially for students, I imagine a lot of bedroom producers have it. Hard to know for certain


----------



## BasariStudios

Now let me ask this, who else was actually made even 
more sure they are not buying after watching this video?


----------



## Evans

BasariStudios said:


> Now let me ask this, who else was actually made even
> more sure they are not buying after watching this video?


The Orchestrator is pretty much what I figured it would be, which isn't something I'm looking for given the price (as well as current knowns re: new content).

I am neither "beginner" enough to use it as a compositional crutch, nor am I "professional" enough to have strict deadlines that would benefit from any potential efficiency gains.

I'm still interested in understanding in great detail what the new content is, as well as if any existing patches were tidied up (such as removing very old bad takes).


----------



## chocobitz825

BasariStudios said:


> Now let me ask this, who else was actually made even
> more sure they are not buying after watching this video?


This forum doesn’t know the meaning of the word “no”. Most will buy eventually. The FOMO is too strong. Give into the dark side!


----------



## BasariStudios

Evans said:


> I'm still interested in understanding in great detail what the new content is, as well as if any existing patches were tidied up (such as removing very old bad takes).


I think a lot of people, including me are interested
only in that, new Content and workflow improvement.


----------



## Toecutter

BasariStudios said:


> I will most likely buy it just to make a Video
> about all this Drama surrounding Hoopus.


Come on Basari, not you XD After all the rage and anger (justifiable imo) you will still give money to EW? That's rewarding their big F U to everyone who owns a full copy of Hollywood Orchestra and won't receive the Opus player update like every single other library of their catalog, *even The Dark Side*. It's preposterous.


----------



## hdsmile

I really don't understand people who still want to buy this silly upgrade for $ 500 it's obvious to everyone that this is hype and making money.


----------



## dzilizzi

jaketanner said:


> yes...I agree. I just think that the majority of EW users are not beginners...*the library is not very beginner friendly*, and I think requires some knowledge to really take advantage of it (at least with Play and the way it was laid out). It may very well bring in possibly students as well...but don't see it at all as a pro's choice...just not sure who they are marketing this for, because it also seems like you need some kind of knowledge to take full advantage of it.


Hence the need for orchestrator for some of us who barely use the library because it is complicated. (aka way too many choices of articulations) 

Also it is good for those who don't play keyboards well for various reasons. Ostinatos aren't easy to play if your hands don't move well.


----------



## cqd

hdsmile said:


> I really don't understand people who still want to buy this silly upgrade for $ 500 it's obvious to everyone that this is hype and making money.


Just think of it as a spitfire "pro" upgrade..


----------



## BasariStudios

Toecutter said:


> Come on Basari, not you XD After all the rage and anger (justifiable imo) you will still give money to EW? That's rewarding their big F U to everyone who owns a full copy of Hollywood Orchestra and won't receive the Opus player update like every single other library of their catalog, *even The Dark Side*. It's preposterous.


I am one of those ANGRY and in RAGE people.
Thought it could be fun. use the F word few times
like Daniel James...gain few Subscribers...
But is it worth 500 Bucks? LOL
Anyways, i have more than i need and better...i am good.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

BasariStudios said:


> Anyways, i have more than i need and better...i am good.


Yeah, we know. Bye.


----------



## Toecutter

chocobitz825 said:


> i dont think clients care who did it so long it doesnt get them sued for copyright infringement. If it works for folks, more power to them.


Like the Superhero preset Superman ripoff? XD That one will raise some eyebrows

Yea I agree people can use whatever tool they want but I still think buying some Stravinsky or Ravel study scores (Alexander Publishing!) will give you superpowers that no "arpeggiator app" will ever give to you. I actually think these tools make people even more lazy and careless about the output of their music. Gone are the days where "composers" truly cared about being unique. Guys like Goldsmith and Herrmann still managed to put their best music out there even under the most severe constraints from clients that didn't know better. It's next level mastery and no software will ever teach that to you lol


----------



## Drumdude2112

Cool walkthrough....It DOES seem very well implemented for what it is.
Is it something i'd use alot ?....i doubt it but it looks damn fun to play with lol


----------



## cqd

Toecutter said:


> Like the Superhero preset Superman ripoff? XD That one will raise some eyebrows
> 
> Yea I agree people can use whatever tool they want but I still think buying some Stravinsky or Ravel study scores (Alexander Publishing!) will give you superpowers that no "arpeggiator app" will ever give to you. I actually think these tools make people even more lazy and careless about the output of their music. Gone are the days where "composers" truly cared about being unique. Guys like Goldsmith and Herrmann still managed to put their best music out there even under the most severe constraints from clients that didn't know better. It's next level mastery and no software will ever teach that to you lol


???...

They're called scores..
They pretty much said they're taken from pieces..

And I don't think it's possible to make me any more lazy anyway..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Toecutter said:


> Like the Superhero preset Superman ripoff? XD That one will raise some eyebrows


Exactly! I’m surprised that preset is even in there.

I suspect the internet and pond5 will be flooded with Orchestrator “compositions” by bedroom composers over the next six months.


----------



## emilio_n

hdsmile said:


> I really don't understand people who still want to buy this silly upgrade for $ 500 it's obvious to everyone that this is hype and making money.


Each person is different.
I learned the very basic of music theory more than 20 years ago when I was learning piano. At this moment even I have an ancient version of Cubase. Life makes me move a part of the music during all this time and now when I back, I don't have the time and the energy to start from zero. 
I am not an absolute beginner, I am not a student with zero budget. I bought a lot of libraries in the last year and I am starting to use them. 
The real thing is I don't need OPUS, same that I don't need other things I bought, but I like and I want it. The idea of the orchestrator looks appealing to me and I bought HOD on a strange "sale-mistake" a few months ago, so having the chance to have OPUS for around 600$ looks fair enough to me.

There are a lot of professional composers here, but if I know a little bit about the people in this forum there are also a lot of beginners, collectors or professionals in other fields that don't care to pay 500$ for the upgrade of OPUS.

Said that I think EastWest is one of the worst taking care of their customers. Comparing the communication style, the offers to loyal customers and the transparency with other companies as OT, Spitfire or Sonokinetik is absolutely embracing.

The only reason that makes me stop ordering OPUS already is the king of arrogance that they shows because they think their product will sell alone without giving some care to their custiomers.
The only reason that will make that finally order OPUS is that I don't care how they communicate if the product is the one I want or I need.

Don't get me wrong. The price of the upgrade is expensive and I am not rich but during the two years that I read this forum, everybody talked about how great is Hollywood Orchestra and how horrible is Play engine. Now that they will fix the problem with the player with a new one deployed for two of the references in the industry, I can't understand how most of the people only complain. 

My two cents.
Sorry for the long post and the horrible English. Is not my mother language, I am very tired today and I need to feed this thread until 20 arrive.


----------



## Toecutter

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Exactly! I’m surprised that preset is even in there.
> 
> I suspect the internet and pond5 will be flooded with Orchestrator “compositions” by bedroom composers over the next six months.


I think you are on to something here... II'll start my own music service using nothing but "score presets", all 120 of them in every variation possible, like thousands of "music for media" tracks in a week and license this stuff to Twtich and Youtube streamers XD Easy money!

Seriously, that will happen! Sites like Fiver will be spammed with new "composer for film, videogames and media" profiles in the coming months, write my words. Nothing wrong with that, it's a free market, but it will be hilarious to spot these "score presets" everywhere.


----------



## dzilizzi

Toecutter said:


> I think you are on to something here... II'll start my own music service using nothing but "score presets", all 120 of them in every variation possible, like thousands of "music for media" tracks in a week and license this stuff to Twtich and Youtube streamers XD Easy money!
> 
> Seriously, that will happen! Sites like Fiver will be spammed with new "composer for film, videogames and media" profiles in the coming months, write my words. Nothing wrong with that, it's a free market, but it will be hilarious to spot these "score presets" everywhere.


Actually, if you can import presets, I can see a market for all those preset makers that flood the KVR sale thread with their synth presets.


----------



## gamma-ut

emilio_n said:


> Now that they will fix the problem with the player with a new one deployed for two of the references in the industry, I can't understand how most of the people only complain.


The original Play had all sorts of issues after launch (when they ported the samples over from Kontakt). With a preorder, there's a pretty realistic chance that scenario will get replayed, particularly if some of the promises about customising patches and articulation switches are a bit overplayed.

I can see how they've arrived at their pricing for upgrades but I can easily see why people are annoyed, particularly given the way EW was promoting the idea of upgrading to Diamond before the product was launched as being the way to go (which it doesn't appear to have been).


----------



## cqd

dzilizzi said:


> Actually, if you can import presets, I can see a market for all those preset makers that flood the KVR sale thread with their synth presets.


Yeah, definitely.. although one would have hoped they'd be shared between users for nothing..
But it didn't happen with the orchestra..

People giving out about the presets..ah, like, changing bits and saving them..I reckon it will be handy..


----------



## SupremeFist

ALittleNightMusic said:


> The Scores examples in the video sounded amazing to me - especially the Dark Hero, Superhero, and The Planets ones. Orchestration Recipes (which is amazing!) is like $50 for 30 recipes (and completely worth it). This has what looks like at least 120 just in the Scores section (and maybe they can add more as free updates). So, $200 just for that if trying to get that elsewhere? Plus all the other orchestrator functionality, the new recordings and the more flexible player (this video clearly shows they finally consolidated the patch list - hallelujah!).


To be fair the whole point of Orchestration Recipes is that it forces you to do it yourself, so you actually learn.  But yeah this looks cool and would definitely be fun to play with. 

My only worry would be that it might encourage film directors who can play four chords on a keyboard to get this and "write their own score" rather than hiring a composer...


----------



## Drumdude2112

I think what alot of peeps dont realize (beginners in particular) with a tool like this is .....YES , okay you CAN play One chord and fire off a pre orchestrated patch that sounds like a film score ...COOL , i admit lol....Then what lol ?Whaddya gonna do after 8 bars or so lol ..Orchestral music 'moves' pretty darn quick ...so if you require a composition beyond the 10 second mark you STILL need composing chops lol...you still need a great harmonic journey etc .
So i don't know how something like this would work in my 'creative workflow' .
I see nothing 'wrong' with it and it seems VERY well implemented but i guess i'm just used to looking 'inward' for my ideas and inspiration.
That said i'd certainly love to upgrade from Play to Opus (as it seems way more intuitive and the interface looks hella cool ) cause i still quite enjoy hollywood orchestra...I'll chill and wait for a sale 👍🏻


----------



## gamma-ut

SupremeFist said:


> My only worry would be that it might encourage film directors who can play four chords on a keyboard to get this and "write their own score" rather than hiring a composer...


Realistically, would you want to work for a director who thought that was a better idea than just paying someone else to do something they didn't really want to do in the first place? Unless it's someone like John Carpenter with a solid interest in music, I doubt most will be bothered about trying to do their own unless they have zero budget. They like making films, with a very strong emphasis on the camera aspect of it.

Directors who "get" music for film seem to be pretty rare in any case. For every Michael Mann, you've got a James Cameron who reckons it's entirely possible for the composer to knock up an orchestrated score overnight and another ten who just want some sounds to mix in with the foley.


----------



## Mike Fox

Zedcars said:


> You know what happens when you photocopy a photocopy of a photocopy? The quality degrades.


Good thing it’s all digital now!


----------



## gamma-ut

Drumdude2112 said:


> I think what alot of peeps dont realize (beginners in particular) with a tool like this is .....YES , okay you CAN play One chord and fire off a pre orchestrated patch that sounds like a film score


I expect there might be a burst of uncanny-valley orchestral scores made from stitched-together cues, which will then proceed to die away.


----------



## Drumdude2112

Can Opus Write in Octotonic 😂 ?


----------



## Evans

Woah... I know there were earlier comments here on CPU usage as seen in the video, but that jumps quite high! 

Makes me wonder 1) how many people will actually be able to take advantage of the Orchestrator, and 2) if CPU spikes were a reason behind the delay.


----------



## gamma-ut

Evans said:


> Woah... I know there were earlier comments here on CPU usage as seen in the video, but that jumps quite high!
> 
> Makes me wonder 1) how many people will actually be able to take advantage of the Orchestrator, and 2) if CPU spikes were a reason behind the delay.


I would not be surprised to find CPU usage is a reason why they've delayed the launch.

However, is high CPU usage in the Orchestrator necessarily a problem? There's no obvious MIDI export but if you're using it to just prototype some arrangements against a chord sequence and basic melody before committing something more permanent to the DAW, it being a CPU hog need not be an issue.

For any piece that's longer than a basic sequence, trying to load patches into the Orchestrator to do the different segments is going to be a finicky process (I think someone else mentioned this earlier in the thread about this kind of orchestrator) and likely less convenient than sequencing from the DAW. In that case, it's not going to stick around chewing up CPU for mixdowns.


----------



## dzilizzi

SupremeFist said:


> To be fair the whole point of Orchestration Recipes is that it forces you to do it yourself, so you actually learn.  But yeah this looks cool and would definitely be fun to play with.
> 
> My only worry would be that it might encourage film directors who can play four chords on a keyboard to get this and "write their own score" rather than hiring a composer...


I'm thinking more towards the YouTube-type market. For a full movie? There's no BRAAAAMS. How can you do a movie without BRAAAAMS?


----------



## Evans

gamma-ut said:


> However, is high CPU usage in the Orchestrator necessarily a problem?


It's not _*not*_ a problem at least until
A) Other users have it in their hands and can report back; and/or
B) We know what specs their machine had.


----------



## cqd

Keyswitchable patches for the orchestrator are what is missing..

Maybe if I start giving out about it now they might sort it by 2040..


----------



## Lewis Emblack

I definitely think it has a place, even if it is just for getting an idea how the elements go together or for quick sketching of ideas, etc. Basically fits into the preset and one knob plugin market - If I am getting together a quick demo idea for future reference I don't really want to spend hours faffing.
I am very new to orchestral composition and can't really play the keyboard (though I write stuff and play it on one. I am a vocalist and play guitar though, and notes are notes are notes) but for any proper compositions will I use it? Nope, unless it is a bit of a bed for a band project or the aforementioned demos. I think we can expect a huge influx of cookie-cutter scores appearing, but as with the one knob and preset crowd, it is only going to get you so far 🤷‍♂️ I am pretty excited to have a play with it though I must say.


----------



## gamma-ut

Evans said:


> It's not _*not*_ a problem at least until
> A) Other users have it in their hands and can report back; and/or
> B) We know what specs their machine had.


Fair enough. And I'd expect them to run the demo on a reasonably well specced machine, like a new Mac Pro. But if the Orchestrator can't play back what is in effect five or six channels of MIDI on the average laptop without breaking up , that's basically software that's in deep trouble. 

I was just thinking of the scenarios in which someone might be worried about the additional load it puts on a DAW with a loaded template.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Evans said:


> Makes me wonder 1) how many people will actually be able to take advantage of the Orchestrator, and 2) if CPU spikes were a reason behind the delay.


If they’re targeting hobbyists, I wager that most users won’t have powerful systems.


----------



## Tremendouz

Was this linked here yet?


----------



## gamma-ut

cqd said:


> Keyswitchable patches for the orchestrator are what is missing..


Do you really want to be doing that if it has to load up different patches? Also, how often are you going to be in the position where you switch from one ostinato to another? 

If it's situation where you're experimenting with variations on the top line or whatever, it might make more sense to have a keyboard split with the Orchestrator playing a bed and then popping in some notes with the other hand on a channel that's going to unarpeggiated patches (along with growing an extra hand for the mod wheel, or mapping a foot pedal or two to CC1/11).


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Toecutter said:


> It's basically The Orchestra with better gui and sounds.


Well, as EastWest says on their site, it was "developed in collaboration with Sonuscore."

I for one would love it if Sonuscore shared their tech with Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Cinematic Studio, and others. Or even create a more general product that lets you use whatever you happen to own. 

I'm intrigued by the Orchestrater, but not enough to buy a whole new orchestral library that I don't need just to use it.

But I think it's a shrewd move by EastWest, as it will provide another reason for noobs to start with them. The fun of The Orchestra, a highly regarded sample set, and a spruced up engine. Assuming everything works as described. 

Maybe somebody has already mentioned this, but its exciting for me to think about getting Opus versions of Play libraries someday. I love Silk. The only thing I don't like about it is Play.


----------



## dzilizzi

I watched again. The high CPU seems to be happening when the full orchestra is engaged rather than just a section. It looks like they are streaming the samples rather than loading them into RAM. 

If this gets midi export, I can see this being really helpful with something like ProTools, where the midi tools are only okay. 

The other problem I see is can you switch presets on the fly - like with keyswitches or automation? Because, as someone pointed out, you would want to change up the pattern every so many bars. Or would you just load multiple orchestrators? I was listening to the solo of the ensemble patch on the demo and Benny doesn't stay with the same pattern for long. Though he may go back to a patch.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

dzilizzi said:


> I watched again. The high CPU seems to be happening when the full orchestra is engaged rather than just a section. It looks like they are streaming the samples rather than loading them into RAM.
> 
> If this gets midi export, I can see this being really helpful with something like ProTools, where the midi tools are only okay.
> 
> The other problem I see is can you switch presets on the fly - like with keyswitches or automation? Because, as someone pointed out, you would want to change up the pattern every so many bars. Or would you just load multiple orchestrators? I was listening to the solo of the ensemble patch on the demo and Benny doesn't stay with the same pattern for long. Though he may go back to a patch.


Right at the end of the video he said they are going to be releasing a walkthrough of how to create an entire piece with it, so your questions will be answered there I'm sure. The MIDI was in the daw behind the orchestrator so I imagine export is a thing. With the minds they have had on it I can't see them missing something like that.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

I have confirmed with EW that there is a MIDI export option. My wallet is starting to tingle.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

It could be called The Orcastrated. Considering a lot of musician will go bankrupt after this release i mean.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Whoever doubted the walkthrough would not come before product release, now owes everyone who said nothing $5000. So pay up people!!! Pay Up!

I am sure most of us here take Paypal... since we all buy sample libraries


----------



## stargazer

Sorry if this has been answered somewhere in this long thread:

I have Hollywood Brass and Strings Diamond, but seldom use it due to the limitations of Play.
I’m interested in the new ”Opus player”. Is there any information available yet? Hoping for more flexibility regarding articulation switching etc.
Will it be available without the orchestrator?

In my case, it would currently be cheaper to just purchase the HW Orchestra Opus Edition Diamond during the pre-order, instead of getting the Diamond Woodwinds/Percussion at $199 each and then pay the upgrade price.
Problem is, I don’t need or want the perc and woodwinds, but I’d very much would like to get an updated Play.
It seems weird that you have to buy it all as a package.


----------



## cqd

According to their FB feed you can "play into" a daw..


----------



## SupremeFist

stargazer said:


> It seems weird that you have to buy it all as a package.


It is what it is. You can't buy individual sections of BBCSO either.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

stargazer said:


> Sorry if this has been answered somewhere in this long thread:
> 
> I have Hollywood Brass and Strings Diamond, but seldom use it due to the limitations of Play.
> I’m interested in the new ”Opus player”. Is there any information available yet? Hoping for more flexibility regarding articulation switching etc.
> Will it be available without the orchestrator?
> 
> In my case, it would currently be cheaper to just purchase the HW Orchestra Opus Edition Diamond during the pre-order, instead of getting the Diamond Woodwinds/Percussion at $199 each and then pay the upgrade price.
> Problem is, I don’t need or want the perc and woodwinds, but I’d very much would like to get an updated Play.
> It seems weird that you have to buy it all as a package.


Same here. And it looks like we will have to wait a while to upgrade our brass and strings to Opus engine. It will be a payed upgrade. Edited: never mind that i was wrong.


----------



## cqd

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Same here. And it looks like we will have to wait a while to upgrade your brass and strings to Opus engine. It will be a payed upgrade.


You won't be able to upgrade just the sections..


----------



## AndyP

cqd said:


> Keyswitchable patches for the orchestrator are what is missing..
> 
> Maybe if I start giving out about it now they might sort it by 2040..


As long as one don't change the sounds in the slots, something like that should work. I would have liked to see that with The Orchestra.
But if there are different sound patches in the slots, each keyswitch becomes a challenge. I'll change the preset, oh... wait...". something will come soon ... creak"


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

stargazer said:


> I have Hollywood Brass and Strings Diamond, but seldom use it due to the limitations of Play


What limitations?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

cqd said:


> You won't be able to upgrade just the sections..


Crap! seems like i read too fast. Thanks.



> Currently you must purchase Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition to get the OPUS software. People who purchase any product post-release will also get OPUS. All ComposerCloud members will automatically get OPUS. *But we are going to wait a while before allowing previous PLAY product purchasers to upgrade in order to assist our support team during this major upgrade period. When we do provide that option, it will be a paid upgrade.*
> So at a later date you sell be able to buy just an upgrade to Opus for all EW sample libraries excluding Hollywood Orchestra.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

So I wonder if instruments hosted in VEPro can be used with the Orchestrator? That might be an issue with Diamond users.


----------



## SupremeFist

Can I just suggest to anyone who already has HOD but doesn't use it because "there are too many patches and it's confusing" or whatever to just devote an hour to reading the very in-depth and informative manuals? (They're much better than the manuals from pretty much any other developer.) Then you could choose your basic patches for each section and enjoy using it. There, I might have saved you $495.


----------



## cqd

Jeremy Spencer said:


> So I wonder if instruments hosted in VEPro can be used with the Orchestrator? That might be an issue with Diamond users.


Hardly I'd say..
My probable approach will be a template in vepro with the orchestrator in pro tools..


----------



## jaketanner

dzilizzi said:


> Hence the need for orchestrator for some of us who barely use the library because it is complicated. (aka way too many choices of articulations)
> 
> Also it is good for those who don't play keyboards well for various reasons. Ostinatos aren't easy to play if your hands don't move well.


true..good point.


----------



## Evans

cqd said:


> Hardly I'd say..
> My probable approach will be a template in vepro with the orchestrator in pro tools..


I think the question is if the Orchestrator will even be able to see/fetch/initiate data for instrument patches potentially not hosted on the same machine.


----------



## cqd

SupremeFist said:


> Can I just suggest to anyone who already has HOD but doesn't use it because "there are too many patches and it's confusing" or whatever to just devote an hour to reading the very in-depth and informative manuals? (They're much better than the manuals from pretty much any other developer.) Then you could choose your basic patches for each section and enjoy using it. There, I might have saved you $495.


It's ridiculous at times..But it just goes to show a lot of people are just repeating what they read online..In everything..Play is grand..

If there was a massive knob in the middle of it though..


----------



## cqd

Evans said:


> I think the question is if the Orchestrator will even be able to see/fetch/initiate data for instrument patches potentially not hosted on the same machine.


It looks like you might be able to route the midi out of it to said patches I'd say..
Going from their FB post earlier..


----------



## Evans

cqd said:


> If there was a massive knob in the middle of it though..


The "massive knob" that sits between the sample data and my DAW is, actually, just me.


----------



## AndyP

If you look at the Orchestrator not just as a preset slinger, then I can imagine getting some use out of it.
Divisi legato lines with chord progressions. With step sequencer, the arranger mode, as well as keyswitches to activate the sections, the orchestrator is already much more flexible than The Orchestra. Then even better sounds with access to legato patches ... 
I had to think of MSS and the Ostinato Builder for comparison. There the orchestrator is already much more flexible.
With a little imagination, I see way more than one preset tool there.


----------



## gst98

SupremeFist said:


> Can I just suggest to anyone who already has HOD but doesn't use it because "there are too many patches and it's confusing" or whatever to just devote an hour to reading the very in-depth and informative manuals? (They're much better than the manuals from pretty much any other developer.) Then you could choose your basic patches for each section and enjoy using it. There, I might have saved you $495.


Unlike Kontakt, Play actually has a patch search. The idea that Play is unusable is just ridiculous.


----------



## SupremeFist

gst98 said:


> Unlike Kontakt, Play actually has a patch search. The idea that Play is unusable is just ridiculous.


It's more usable than the Spitfire player for one.


----------



## cqd

SupremeFist said:


> It's more usable than the Spitfire player for one.


This x1000..

But again..the massive knob..


----------



## Dex

dzilizzi said:


> Actually, if you can import presets, I can see a market for all those preset makers that flood the KVR sale thread with their synth presets.


Didn’t happen with The Orchestra.


----------



## SupremeFist

cqd said:


> This x1000..
> 
> But again..the massive knob..


I mean, I get that it looks drab and unfashionably skeuomorphic etc, but all the information you need is there on one page and it's clear what everything does...


----------



## BasariStudios

stargazer said:


> Sorry if this has been answered somewhere in this long thread:


About 120 Pages of this Thread are exactly about your question.
I mean every single one of those 120 Pages.


----------



## Trax

People who have been reading all 200 pages of this thread for nearly a year aren't going to help you out stargazer. Early adopters can be bitter about early adoptions. Sorry.


----------



## Tremendouz

gst98 said:


> Unlike Kontakt, Play actually has a patch search. The idea that Play is unusable is just ridiculous.


It's not unusable by any means but it's subpar compared to kontakt when it comes to purge (very much needed for Diamond if you don't have endless amount of RAM) plus there's no way to access all the articulations via keyswitching.

I'd gladly use PLAY and HOD if these two things were addressed. I haven't had any crashing issues or anything.


----------



## Dex

AndyP said:


> If you look at the Orchestrator not just as a preset slinger, then I can imagine getting some use out of it.
> Divisi legato lines with chord progressions. With step sequencer, the arranger mode, as well as keyswitches to activate the sections, the orchestrator is already much more flexible than The Orchestra. Then even better sounds with access to legato patches ...
> I had to think of MSS and the Ostinato Builder for comparison. There the orchestrator is already much more flexible.
> With a little imagination, I see way more than one preset tool there.


Divisi patches were not available in the orchestrator in the walkthrough video.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

SupremeFist said:


> I mean, I get that it looks drab and unfashionably skeuomorphic etc, but all the information you need is there on one page and it's clear what everything does...


Are you guys saying PLAY is on par with players like Syncron or VI etc.. I thought it was really behind as far as articulation management and yes the patch were confusing too. Just not a fun experience. Now I'll make do with it because Studio On will add new features soon i hope. But there's no need to be jerks about it. Just understand that ease of use is something important for some of us. I hate those big knob interface btw and i think they're a big waste of space. Please dev, stop doing that. Anyway, why are they dumping play if it's so great?


----------



## dzilizzi

SupremeFist said:


> Can I just suggest to anyone who already has HOD but doesn't use it because "there are too many patches and it's confusing" or whatever to just devote an hour to reading the very in-depth and informative manuals? (They're much better than the manuals from pretty much any other developer.) Then you could choose your basic patches for each section and enjoy using it. There, I might have saved you $495.


Truthfully, one of my biggest problems are the patch names are too long - i.e. I get the "The file names are too long and can't be copied" error. I am missing a bunch of patches on my SSD because of it. The patch names are actually pretty explanatory. Sometimes it is just one of those "too many choses, how do I decide, okay let's grab this one" things.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

SupremeFist said:


> To be fair the whole point of Orchestration Recipes is that it forces you to do it yourself, so you actually learn.  But yeah this looks cool and would definitely be fun to play with.
> 
> My only worry would be that it might encourage film directors who can play four chords on a keyboard to get this and "write their own score" rather than hiring a composer...


And why is that a worry? A composer worth hiring should be able to write something better for that director than what the director can make themselves.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

It's a curious position to take that things that make it easier to make music for more people is somehow bad. As if everybody should be forced to go through the same learning process as those that came before. What would Beethoven say of you using a DAW or Staffpad or Dorico? Did those tools somehow diminish the creativity in music or did they expand it to more people and bring forth more ideas? Making creating music more accessible to more people is never bad - the world needs more people that make art because making art allows you to also appreciate art, especially art different to what you make, and appreciating differences is what the world needs more of. The only people that would complain about this are ones that don't have much creativity or innovation themselves and are insecure about it.


----------



## SupremeFist

ALittleNightMusic said:


> And why is that a worry? A composer worth hiring should be able to write something better for that director than what the director can make themselves.


Yeah but you're relying on the director to be able to tell the difference.


----------



## CDNmusic

From the new FAQ on the product page....http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-orchestra-opus-edition


----------



## dzilizzi

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It's a curious position to take that things that make it easier to make music for more people is somehow bad. As if everybody should be forced to go through the same learning process as those that came before. What would Beethoven say of you using a DAW or Staffpad or Dorico? Did those tools somehow diminish the creativity in music or did they expand it to more people and bring forth more ideas? Making creating music more accessible to more people is never bad - the world needs more people that make art because making art allows you to also appreciate art, especially art different to what you make, and appreciating differences is what the world needs more of. The only people that would complain about this are ones that don't have much creativity or innovation themselves and are insecure about it.


I have my quill pen and ink. As soon as I find some reasonably priced papyrus to allow for mistakes, I will start learning to write music! 


Wait! You used pencils and staff paper? You cheaters!


----------



## jneebz

*EastWest:* _"HOLLYWOOD OPUS + ORCHESTRATOR COMING FALL 2020!"_
*Me: * "Whoa! _Sweet!"_

*EastWest Fall 2020 - April 13, 2021:* _[Total Marketing Cluster Eff]_
*Me: *_"OMG I hate this company and will NEVER give them anymore of my money!"_

*EastWest April 14, 2021:* _Drops the "Orchestrator Walkthrough" video_
*Me: *_"HOLY. FRICKING. HELL. TAKE MY MONEY!"_

#bipolarstrong #GAS #soundseffingamazing


----------



## dzilizzi

CDNmusic said:


> From the new FAQ on the product page....http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-orchestra-opus-edition


Missed that - thanks. (way too much small print)


----------



## stargazer

SupremeFist said:


> It is what it is. You can't buy individual sections of BBCSO either.


That’s true. But in the case of Hollywood Brass, Strings etc they were available as separate libraries first. Since those libraries, in an updated form, will be available on a new platform I don’t think it’s very far-fetched to ask for update paths for the individual sections you own, without having to buy the whole package.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

SupremeFist said:


> Yeah but you're relying on the director to be able to tell the difference.


Ultimately, it is their film. Composers maybe sometimes forget that they are there to serve the picture. If the director can't tell the difference and they are happy with the film, it actually doesn't matter.


----------



## stargazer

Jeremy Spencer said:


> What limitations?


The handling of articulation switching. The only way I know is to use a different midi channel for each articulation. Crashes has been fewer in recent versions on macOS, loading times still quite slow, but I can live with that.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

stargazer said:


> The handling of articulation switching. The only way I know is to use a different midi channel for each articulation. Crashes has been fewer in recent versions on macOS, loading times still quite slow, but I can live with that.


Which DAW?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

CDNmusic said:


> From the new FAQ on the product page....http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-orchestra-opus-edition


Actually, tis good be a good thing for HO Diamond owners that also have CCX. I could use orchestrator to create the sections, then export to MIDI and insert my HO Diamond patches (or any patches for that matter).


----------



## stargazer

BasariStudios said:


> About 120 Pages of this Thread are exactly about your question.
> I mean every single one of those 120 Pages.


Well, I’m not gonna read through it all, and so far I haven’t found any info regarding articulation switching methods. Would you be so kind as to enlighten me?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Are you guys saying PLAY is on par with players like Syncron or VI etc.. I thought it was really behind as far as articulation management and yes the patch were confusing too. Just not a fun experience. Now I'll make do with it because Studio On will add new features soon i hope. But there's no need to be jerks about it. Just understand that ease of use is something important for some of us. I hate those big knob interface btw and i think they're a big waste of space. Please dev, stop doing that. Anyway, why are they dumping play if it's so great?


I think the Opus player is still Play with some additional features...such as Orchestrator. If you look at the GUI, it's basically Play with a different skin. For what it's worth, I prefer Play over Syncron, Kontakt, and SF. Tit for tat.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Tremendouz said:


> It's not unusable by any means but it's subpar compared to kontakt when it comes to purge (very much needed for Diamond if you don't have endless amount of RAM) plus there's no way to access all the articulations via keyswitching.
> 
> I'd gladly use PLAY and HOD if these two things were addressed. I haven't had any crashing issues or anything.


Play has a purge function.


----------



## JyTy

The Orchestrator walkthrough is amazing! You can see that this thing is very thoughtfully done and a bit of delay with a huge project like this is normal... Can't wait for April the 20th!!


----------



## stargazer

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Which DAW?


Pro Tools Ultimate and VE Pro.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

stargazer said:


> Pro Tools Ultimate and VE Pro.


Ahh, I was hoping you were in Cubase, you could use Expression Maps with EW.


----------



## gst98

Tremendouz said:


> It's not unusable by any means but it's subpar compared to kontakt when it comes to purge (very much needed for Diamond if you don't have endless amount of RAM) plus there's no way to access all the articulations via keyswitching.
> 
> I'd gladly use PLAY and HOD if these two things were addressed. I haven't had any crashing issues or anything.


Yes, the purge is not as good as Kontakt, but is more sophisticated than SINE, Vienna, or SF purging. You _can_ stream from disk, and you _can_ purge unneeded samples, at least to some degree. better than nothing. No one criticizes the purging of SF, Sine or Vienna as harshly for some reason.

And despite what people say, there are already KS patches that contain most of the basic articulations. Not saying it couldn't do with improvement, but they do exist.


----------



## RogiervG

Not very impressed by the orchestrator thing.. It doesn't sound that good either (somehow it sounds robotic/mechanic, not alive)


----------



## Jett Hitt

RogiervG said:


> Not very impressed by the orchestrator thing.. It doesn't sound that good either (somehow it sounds robotic/mechanic, not alive)


Perhaps that's because it is robotic, mechanical, and not alive.


----------



## szczaw

TigerTheFrog said:


> I for one would love it if Sonuscore shared their tech with Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Cinematic Studio, and others. Or even create a more general product that lets you use whatever you happen to own.


What 'tech' ? It's a bunch of arpeggiators that can all be saved to a preset. I didn't need Sonuscore to do the same thing in Renoise.


----------



## cqd

stargazer said:


> Pro Tools Ultimate and VE Pro.


Like, would you not just have 3 or 4 instrument channels per instrument?..I actually find that handier than pissing around with keyswitches a lot of the time.. Once it's set up then you don't even have to look at it really..

Instrument tracks are better because you can route the output from play to them then too..


----------



## stargazer

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Ahh, I was hoping you were in Cubase, you could use Expression Maps with EW.


Thanks Jeremy!
I have considered getting Cubase as an alternative DAW because of that feature, but I just bought S1 and find the Sound Variations system, especially in combination with Macros using Commands and Arguments, totally outstandning!
Gonna dive into that when I get some time between projects.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Ahh, I was hoping you were in Cubase, you could use Expression Maps with EW.


Ah so Cubase is managing the articulations so it's a different story. Play is fine in that context i assume. Still hoping they will add more options like velocity switching, CC switching etc.. I think they should do that before adding gadgets. I meam The OrcAstrator is nice but that does fall in the gadget category imo. I guess we'll see.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

stargazer said:


> Thanks Jeremy!
> I have considered getting Cubase as an alternative DAW because of that feature, but I just bought S1 and find the Sound Variations system, especially in combination with Macros using Commands and Arguments, totally outstandning!
> Gonna dive into that when I get some time between projects.


Here's a tip. Presonus will add a ch. option to their Sound Variation system. Which should be particularly usful for Play users. So it's probably best to wait a little. I'm just guessing but i expect this in the next update since they announced it in a video...


----------



## Lazer42

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It's a curious position to take that things that make it easier to make music for more people is somehow bad. As if everybody should be forced to go through the same learning process as those that came before. What would Beethoven say of you using a DAW or Staffpad or Dorico? Did those tools somehow diminish the creativity in music or did they expand it to more people and bring forth more ideas? Making creating music more accessible to more people is never bad - the world needs more people that make art because making art allows you to also appreciate art, especially art different to what you make, and appreciating differences is what the world needs more of. The only people that would complain about this are ones that don't have much creativity or innovation themselves and are insecure about it.


Making music more accessible to people is a good thing, but there's a difference between making it more accessible for people to make music and having people take music that _somebody else _made and thinking and promoting that they themselves made it. 

So some aspects of this kind of technology it seems to me do make it more accessible. The "divisimate" sort of feature here makes it more accessible. I don't think anyone really objects to that. Certainly there is a fine line somewhere in here in that this does make it possible for a less knowledgeable and skilled person to create some material which is equal to the output of a more knowledgeable and skilled person, which to a certain degree diminishes the value of the latter's skill and training - but there are also limits to what this kind of technology can (at least right now) allow somebody to produce and this entire dynamic is one that I think has a lot of gray area. In other words, there's a discussion to be had about where the good in this sort of thing is and where the bad, if any, is.

On the other hand, some of what this software is doing is different than that and amounts to basically a loop library which is being presented as a writing tool, and I think that's where some are taking issue. Does it have legitimate value as a tool for inspiration? I'd imagine so - at least no less than the value of listening to others' work for inspiration. The problem, it seems to me, is that this really blurs the line between inspiration and plagiarism. For example, it's one thing to listen to the Superman soundtrack to get some ideas about what to do with a project one is working on, while it's actually something quite different to go into your DAW and play a chord on the keyboard and literally have the Superman ostinato entered into the literal score you're working on. And again - there's also something very different about downloading a Superman MIDI file to look at the notes vs. going into your _composing suite _and "writing" that Superman ostinato into your score. 

Altogether, I do think that there's a lot to like about some of the options this Orchestrator tool provides, but I also think there are legitimate questions about just what it means in terms of the legitimacy of the creative process. Making things easier for people is one thing (e.g., having Dorico vs. the tools Beethoven had available), writing music for people to put their own name on is something different.


----------



## stargazer

cqd said:


> Like, would you not just have 3 or 4 instrument channels per instrument?..I actually find that handier than pissing around with keyswitches a lot of the time.. Once it's set up then you don't even have to look at it really..
> 
> Instrument tracks are better because you can route the output from play to them then too..


Sometimes, sometimes not, it depends.

I always use Instrument Tracks.
Almost exclusively one per Kontakt/Sine/Play etc Instance in VEP, so I don’t have to do any mixing in the Sample Player/Synth or VEP.
Also trying to avoid key switches and mostly use program change (with or without transformation to other data, UACC etc) as it, with the right midnam files, gives a nice graphical (text) representation of articulations in the midi editor without issues when transposing.


----------



## robgb

ALittleNightMusic said:


> OPUS too expensive? Don't buy it. OPUS doesn't have what you want? Don't buy it. OPUS sounds like shit? Don't buy it. Hate EW for some reason? Don't buy it


Works for me. I won't be.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lazer42 said:


> Making music more accessible to people is a good thing, but there's a difference between making it more accessible for people to make music and having people take music that _somebody else _made and thinking and promoting that they themselves made it.
> 
> So some aspects of this kind of technology it seems to me do make it more accessible. The "divisimate" sort of feature here makes it more accessible. I don't think anyone really objects to that. Certainly there is a fine line somewhere in here in that this does make it possible for a less knowledgeable and skilled person to create some material which is equal to the output of a more knowledgeable and skilled person, which to a certain degree diminishes the value of the latter's skill and training - but there are also limits to what this kind of technology can (at least right now) allow somebody to produce and this entire dynamic is one that I think has a lot of gray area. In other words, there's a discussion to be had about where the good in this sort of thing is and where the bad, if any, is.
> 
> On the other hand, some of what this software is doing is different than that and amounts to basically a loop library which is being presented as a writing tool, and I think that's where some are taking issue. Does it have legitimate value as a tool for inspiration? I'd imagine so - at least no less than the value of listening to others' work for inspiration. The problem, it seems to me, is that this really blurs the line between inspiration and plagiarism. For example, it's one thing to listen to the Superman soundtrack to get some ideas about what to do with a project one is working on, while it's actually something quite different to go into your DAW and play a chord on the keyboard and literally have the Superman ostinato entered into the literal score you're working on. And again - there's also something very different about downloading a Superman MIDI file to look at the notes vs. going into your _composing suite _and "writing" that Superman ostinato into your score.
> 
> Altogether, I do think that there's a lot to like about some of the options this Orchestrator tool provides, but I also think there are legitimate questions about just what it means in terms of the legitimacy of the creative process. Making things easier for people is one thing (e.g., having Dorico vs. the tools Beethoven had available), writing music for people to put their own name on is something different.


I think you're mistaking what Orchestrator does - it does not contain the exact notes. It contains intervals (see the screens around the editor that show +2 steps, etc). The user still has to provide the chords and melody. Could they copy the same chords as the Superman theme and then get fairly close? Sure. But you can do that without Orchestrator. You could also just sample the recording of the Superman theme, flip it, and turn it into a new a song. Is that plagiarism? Is that sampling? Is that inspiration? There will always be those that go for the "laziest" approach - whether it is this, or using a loop, or a MIDI drum beat from Superior Drummer (I've definitely done that!), or a sample from a vinyl, or lifting the exact progression / notes from a score (pretty sure a lot of the most famous composers have done that!). But variation doesn't mean better. Ultimately, comes down to the end product.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

robgb said:


> Works for me. I won't be.


Thank you for sharing that with the group.


----------



## szczaw

dzilizzi said:


> Actually, if you can import presets, I can see a market for all those preset makers that flood the KVR sale thread with their synth presets.


Things would get interesting if they took it a step further and added chord triggered phrases (ala Sonokinetic). I, for one, would be interested in buying something like that. Simple arpeggiators just don't make me salivate.

Yes, that could be another way, to make money for EW and third parties.


----------



## robgb

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Thank you for sharing that with the group.


You're welcome!!


----------



## Macrawn

JyTy said:


> The Orchestrator walkthrough is amazing! You can see that this thing is very thoughtfully done and a bit of delay with a huge project like this is normal... Can't wait for April the 20th!!


YEEESSS! Looks good. I like the Orchestra but I've been wanting something like this that was built around a high quality library. I like ensemble patches but I think that an orchestrator type thing is better since it can freely assign the individual instruments. It's what I like about divisimate. Having it built around a sample library has got to be a big improvement as well. External applications just can't integrate as well. Hopefully it's good. 

I'd like to see the other big players get working on this kind of thing.


----------



## Trax

robgb said:


> You're welcome!!


Thank you for your you're welcoming.


----------



## Markrs

robgb said:


> Works for me. I won't be.





ALittleNightMusic said:


> Thank you for sharing that with the group.





robgb said:


> You're welcome!!





Trax said:


> Thank you for your you're welcoming.


I think this thread just peaked 😂

I'm sure in 5 days time after the excitement of the Opus release is over we can find another library to obsess about, probably something new from Spitfire 😁


----------



## Lazer42

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I think you're mistaking what Orchestrator does - it does not contain the exact notes. It contains intervals (see the screens around the editor that show +2 steps, etc). The user still has to provide the chords and melody. Could they copy the same chords as the Superman theme and then get fairly close? Sure. But you can do that without Orchestrator. You could also just sample the recording of the Superman theme, flip it, and turn it into a new a song. Is that plagiarism? Is that sampling? Is that inspiration? There will always be those that go for the "laziest" approach - whether it is this, or using a loop, or a MIDI drum beat from Superior Drummer (I've definitely done that!), or a sample from a vinyl, or lifting the exact progression / notes from a score (pretty sure a lot of the most famous composers have done that!). But variation doesn't mean better. Ultimately, comes down to the end product.


I could be mistaken, but I think you're incorrect and that rather, it does both. What I took from the demo is that the included presets feature the orchestration, the intervals, and the rhythmic patterns. You definitely can put more custom things in, but the way I took the demo, those presets do give those full "phrases."


----------



## szczaw

Lazer42 said:


> I could be mistaken, but I think you're incorrect and that rather, it does both. What I took from the demo is that the included presets feature the orchestration, the intervals, and the rhythmic patterns. You definitely can put more custom things in, but the way I took the demo, those presets do give those full "phrases."


There are no notes there just staring chord note position (L,M,T) and steps with controllable length.


----------



## Macrawn

Lazer42 said:


> Making music more accessible to people is a good thing, but there's a difference between making it more accessible for people to make music and having people take music that _somebody else _made and thinking and promoting that they themselves made it.
> 
> So some aspects of this kind of technology it seems to me do make it more accessible. The "divisimate" sort of feature here makes it more accessible. I don't think anyone really objects to that. Certainly there is a fine line somewhere in here in that this does make it possible for a less knowledgeable and skilled person to create some material which is equal to the output of a more knowledgeable and skilled person, which to a certain degree diminishes the value of the latter's skill and training - but there are also limits to what this kind of technology can (at least right now) allow somebody to produce and this entire dynamic is one that I think has a lot of gray area. In other words, there's a discussion to be had about where the good in this sort of thing is and where the bad, if any, is.
> 
> On the other hand, some of what this software is doing is different than that and amounts to basically a loop library which is being presented as a writing tool, and I think that's where some are taking issue. Does it have legitimate value as a tool for inspiration? I'd imagine so - at least no less than the value of listening to others' work for inspiration. The problem, it seems to me, is that this really blurs the line between inspiration and plagiarism. For example, it's one thing to listen to the Superman soundtrack to get some ideas about what to do with a project one is working on, while it's actually something quite different to go into your DAW and play a chord on the keyboard and literally have the Superman ostinato entered into the literal score you're working on. And again - there's also something very different about downloading a Superman MIDI file to look at the notes vs. going into your _composing suite _and "writing" that Superman ostinato into your score.
> 
> Altogether, I do think that there's a lot to like about some of the options this Orchestrator tool provides, but I also think there are legitimate questions about just what it means in terms of the legitimacy of the creative process. Making things easier for people is one thing (e.g., having Dorico vs. the tools Beethoven had available), writing music for people to put their own name on is something different.


I have not problems with loops, orchestrators, or any other tool that gets a result. There are still hundreds upon hundreds of decisions to make in a composition even if part of it is mechanized. There are people who have gone through years of training and can produce ok orchestral music. But in the end they lack the heart and feel of it and can't really compose anything that actually sounds original, or memorable. Then someone who has a feel for it with less background comes in and uses all of these kinds of tools and produces something that stands out. I'm sorry but I'm with the latter. The mediocre composer has no extra value because he or she did it all from scratch. 

None of this is going to replace great composers. We have plenty of those. It may diminish the pretenders who maybe see what they are composing as more significant than it really is. 

And the tech still isn't there yet, but in the next decade it will be. Even then great composers will redefine things faster than the tech. Tech will always play catch up to that because these kinds of tools copy what is, not what could be. But the folks who are composing for today (what is) are going to have a lot more good sounding competition. 

In terms of true originality. Originality often comes from accidents or flaws that are recognized for some value. A person still has to arrange a song, by pulling in various elements. A machine can make the elements sometimes, but the arrangement and combination of them into a piece is far more valuable than the raw parts.


----------



## Macrawn

Markrs said:


> I think this thread just peaked 😂
> 
> I'm sure in 5 days time after the excitement of the Opus release is over we can find another library to obsess about, probably something new from Spitfire 😁


Lol, I can feel the let down from the day after already.


----------



## Markrs

I feel like I should start a thread on 8dio's Sound Paint (I still literally have no idea as to what it is), as that is another new thing we can spend an age speculating on. It will just be like with EW as it seems you either love or hate 8Dio.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lazer42 said:


> I could be mistaken, but I think you're incorrect and that rather, it does both. What I took from the demo is that the included presets feature the orchestration, the intervals, and the rhythmic patterns. You definitely can put more custom things in, but the way I took the demo, those presets do give those full "phrases."


This is the edit screen - you don't have the ability to input specific notes (that wouldn't make sense either since the input into this is the chord you are playing). As in, you can't press a single key and out pops the Superman theme.


----------



## Drumdude2112

On a different note , i have Gold atm.
Should i upgrade to diamond (currently 199 ) before jumping to opus 😳 ?


----------



## Evans

Drumdude2112 said:


> On a different note , i have Gold atm.
> Should i upgrade to diamond (currently 199 ) before jumping to opus 😳 ?


Unfortunately, I don't think anyone can seriously answer this question until after Opus has come out.


----------



## Macrawn

ALittleNightMusic said:


> This is the edit screen - you don't have the ability to input specific notes (that wouldn't make sense either since the input into this is the chord you are playing). As in, you can't press a single key and out pops the Superman theme.


If it's like the Orchestra, you can create the midi pattern, and or and envelope for it. You can be totally original with it. Just that when you press a chord it executes the pattern you made.


Markrs said:


> I feel like I should start a thread on 8dio's Sound Paint (I still literally have no idea as to what it is), as that is another new thing we can spend an age speculating on. It will just be like with EW as it seems you either love or hate 8Dio.


I didn't know they were working on something like that. I think all of the big players will come out with some kind of orchestrator in the next couple of years.


----------



## Trash Panda

Drumdude2112 said:


> On a different note , i have Gold atm.
> Should i upgrade to diamond (currently 199 ) before jumping to opus 😳 ?


Do you feel like you need extra microphones or violin divisi? Do you have an adversarial relationship with your hard drives/RAM and enjoy watching them sweat under heavy loads? Do you want a more expensive upgrade cost?

If your answer to all three questions is yes, then absolutely upgrade to Diamond.


----------



## Frederick

Drumdude2112 said:


> On a different note , i have Gold atm.
> Should i upgrade to diamond (currently 199 ) before jumping to opus 😳 ?


Isn't upgrading from Gold to Opus Diamond only 100 USD more than from Diamond?


----------



## Lazer42

ALittleNightMusic said:


> This is the edit screen - you don't have the ability to input specific notes (that wouldn't make sense either since the input into this is the chord you are playing). As in, you can't press a single key and out pops the Superman theme.


This strikes me as a very quibbly and ultimately misleading distinction. No, you can't put in specific notes but you do put in the intervals, so you can't put in the specific notes to produce the Superman theme in exactly one way, but you can put in the intervals so that it will produce the Superman theme in _any key you like_. 

Beyond all of this though, I wasn't talking about the melody, but the ostinato, intervals, arrangement, etc. and there seems to be no question that it is something that the Orchestrator does produce since they literally demonstrated it in the video. The performer played a chord, and it played the Superman theme just minus the melody.


----------



## Dewdman42

I have absolutely zero use for Orchestrator. Looks like interesting and fun tech, but I don't need it, nor do I want to pay for it. EW should sell that separately instead of forcing onto EWHO users in order to upgrade the library and engine at a premier price point. I think they will understand that in a year when not enough people pay for this upgrade, but we'll see.


----------



## hag01

This orchestrator seems like an arranger keyboard, and to be honest, I despise arranger keyboards. I think they are not a legitimate musical instruments, and I don't think I should explain why.
This orchestrator also doesn't seems like a legitimate "composing" tool.

I also must admit that I'm afraid from things like that and like AIVA, that they will replace real composers one day.
Not that I'm making money from being a media composer, and I also live in a place in the world that the odds that I'll ever be part of the industry are pretty low(although still plausible), but at list I have dreams.
If this kind of technologies will catch the market, I will be left with nothing to dream about in life.


----------



## lettucehat

This orchestrator is neat, undoubtedly a lot of fun, but let's be real - its ultimate function is to inflate the perceived value (along with a few new patches) of an upgrade that most developers, in an equivalent situation, would offer for free or for a modest fee in order for their product to remain competitive. Certainly after 10 years of of advances in usability, developers often do more over shorter stretches of time. But now I can see that the orchestrator also serves to highlight how mediocre the _very good_ samples can sound when not programmed with close attention. Will they sell it on its own for $299?


----------



## Dewdman42

well I think for the time being this kind of tech still sounds inferior to what can be done by a real composer, even a modest one... If anything it will just raise the bar for what composers should try to strive for in their compositions to sound better than that and distinguish themselves from this kind of roboton orchestra sound production. 

The days of getting paid (very much) for trailers, commercials and other content that was on par with the sound of EW Ochestrator may be coming to an end. sorry to say for those making a living doing that kind of stuff. Composers will need to distinguish themselves from cookie cutter press and play results of tools like this. Sonuscore and others have been doing this for a while. It unfortunately likely lowers the bar over time for what film producers would consider "good enough" for stuff like trailers, because its arguably much less expensive to get a result. Fine, but composers will need to figure out how to deliver a superior result than that. Which is tough to justify for things like Trailers and stuff with no budget. So more likely...that kind of media content will diminish to the lower cost provided by tools like this, even if they are marginally less inventive then what could be done by hand. The novelty of having the sound of a full orchestra is already much less novel then it used to be. Anybody with a laptop now can make big orchestra sounds on par with what Orchestrator does...Orchestrator just makes it so easy and fast that literally anyone can do something pretty cool sounding in just a few minutes. Pros in this space may initially consider this a time saver for them, but its also a job destroyer!

But its up to composers to distinguish themselves as real composers rather then sample library gurus that produce big sounding cliches


----------



## Markrs

I think the orchestrator is for bedroom composers/producers and it think in that regards it is a pretty good idea and will appeal a lot to their subscribers. I doubt we on VI-Control are EW target market for this upgrade. Though in truth it is the sort of thing I would have expected more from NI given their broad popularity with the producer audience.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Dewdman42 said:


> well I think for the time being this kind of tech still sounds inferior to what can be done by a real composer, even a modest one... If anything it will just raise the bar for what composers should try to strive for in their compositions to sound better than that and distinguish themselves from this kind of roboton orchestra sound production.
> 
> The days of getting paid (very much) for trailers, commercials and other content that was on par with the sound of EW Ochestrator may be coming to an end. sorry to say for those making a living doing that kind of stuff. Composers will need to distinguish themselves from cookie cutter press and play results of tools like this. Sonuscore and others have been doing this for a while. It unfortunately likely lowers the bar over time for what film producers would consider "good enough" for stuff like trailers, because its arguably much less expensive to get a result. Fine, but composers will need to figure out how to deliver a superior result than that. Which is tough to justify for things like Trailers and stuff with no budget. So more likely...that kind of media content will diminish to the lower cost provided by tools like this, even if they are marginally less inventive then what could be done by hand. The novelty of having the sound of a full orchestra is already much less novel then it used to be. Anybody with a laptop now can make big orchestra sounds on par with what Orchestrator does...Orchestrator just makes it so easy and fast that literally anyone can do something pretty cool sounding in just a few minutes. Pros in this space may initially consider this a time saver for them, but its also a job destroyer!
> 
> But its up to composers to distinguish themselves as real composers rather then sample library gurus that produce big sounding cliches


I think you hit the nail on the head - composers need to distinguish themselves, no matter the tools that come out. The good ones will (including the ones that don't come from the traditional background of learning orchestration the "old school" way). The ones that complain are the ones that are scared of competition exposing their chops (or lack there of).


----------



## Dewdman42

which is why I have no use for a tool like this and never will.


----------



## chocobitz825

EW has managed to merge multiple topics of VI-control from the last few months. 

The conversation of tech replacing skill came up in scaler, aiva, and general midi generator and AI threads.

the conversation of artistic originality vs copying the classics was thoroughly discussed in the Bruno Mars thread.

pre-order gripes from pretty much every spitfire, OT, and EW thread.

Play engine bashing and defending in every single library thread when someone chimes in to remind us that EW sounds the best despite its age and play is not as bad as people make it out to be.

this is why I’m sure that no matter what happens the end result is most of us shut up and buy in the 11th hour, during the first week after release with our tails between our legs or we come back during Black Friday sales and rally to find the lowest price before we buy.

In the end, we WILL buy though. It is inevitable. Fate has spoken. The large libraries cannot be ignored.


----------



## Dewdman42

haha. no way I will buy it at that price. No chance whatsoever.


----------



## chocobitz825

S


Dewdman42 said:


> haha. no way I will buy it at that price. No chance whatsoever.


See you on Black Friday! 😜


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head - composers need to distinguish themselves, no matter the tools that come out. The good ones will (including the ones that don't come from the traditional background of learning orchestration the "old school" way). The ones that complain are the ones that are scared of competition exposing their chops (or lack there of).


On the contrary, I use quite of few of these said tools in my workflow, and have released a ton of material that include them over the years (for television). Lots of Sonokinetic libraries, Scaler, NI Action/Emotive Strings, numerous phrase patches from several developers, etc. I’d even find Orchestrator useful in my workflow, as looks like a great tool (for me) to spark some inspiration. Heck, it could even lay down the foundation for epic orchestral tracks.


----------



## Saxer

I have Sonusscore The Orchestra. It's fun to play with it but it gets boring rather fast. Probably more fun with better sounds.
In real live I'd probably rarely use the presets. But it might be interesting to take some time to make a few own presets. Things that takes a lot of time and are rather boring like tonal and metal percussion textures beds, fast string arpeggios, woodwind dovetailing or harp comping. And maybe simple instrument combinations.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Jeremy Spencer said:


> On the contrary, I use quite of few of these said tools in my workflow, and have released a ton of material that include them over the years (for television). Lots of Sonokinetic libraries, Scaler, NI Action/Emotive Strings, numerous phrase patches from several developers, etc. I’d even find Orchestrator useful in my workflow, as looks like a great tool (for me) to spark some inspiration. Heck, it could even lay down the foundation for epic orchestral tracks.


I should’ve added that good composers will incorporate the tools appropriately instead of being scared of them. Like yourself, I find these tools very helpful in the process.


----------



## Lazer42

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head - composers need to distinguish themselves, no matter the tools that come out. The good ones will (including the ones that don't come from the traditional background of learning orchestration the "old school" way). The ones that complain are the ones that are scared of competition exposing their chops (or lack there of).


I think you may be right about some of the people who are complaining, but I think that the same is true on the other side: there are a lot of people excited about/defending this kind of product who are know they can't produce much good music on their own and are excited because they think this will make them stand out or allow them to succeed where they didn't have the chops for it before - and surely there are many in between with more reasonable outlooks. 

I'd also add that I think the distinction that's been raised a few times between people who come from a traditional educational background vs. those who have learned things the "modern way" is not all that important or helpful a distinction for the purposes of this discussion, at least to me. I don't care how a person learned something any more than I care whether Bill Gates learned computers in school when he was able to produce something worthwhile. I do think, nevertheless, that there are certain skillsets that wherever or however a person learned it are important.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lazer42 said:


> I think you may be right about some of the people who are complaining, but I think that the same is true on the other side: there are a lot of people excited about/defending this kind of product who are know they can't produce much good music on their own and are excited because they think this will make them stand out or allow them to succeed where they didn't have the chops for it before - and surely there are many in between with more reasonable outlooks.
> 
> I'd also add that I think the distinction that's been raised a few times between people who come from a traditional educational background vs. those who have learned things the "modern way" is not all that important or helpful a distinction for the purposes of this discussion, at least to me. I don't care how a person learned something any more than I care whether Bill Gates learned computers in school when he was able to produce something worthwhile. I do think, nevertheless, that there are certain skillsets that wherever or however a person learned it are important.


What's "good music" though? Kanye West flipped a sample and sold more records than the original artist could ever dream of. Did he not have the chops? Maybe he didn't have the chops to play the original music on the sample, but he certainly had the chops when it came to sampling, beatmaking, etc.

My personal excitement for this is two fold - one, it allows me to realize a vision faster than I can currently realize it (even if I know how to orchestrate it) and two, by studying some of the included orchestrations, I can learn something I didn't know previously. But what excites me outside of myself is what other people end up doing with it that I cannot even imagine at the moment - because that is what moves music forward. This is true with any tool. The inventor of the hammer never imagined David.


----------



## szczaw

Seems like a good filler, extra thickening sauce. 500 presets will provide some fuel, but like Saxer already said: it won't take long for it all to become boring and redundant.


----------



## Toecutter

Dewdman42 said:


> The days of getting paid (very much) for trailers, commercials and other content that was on par with the sound of EW Ochestrator may be coming to an end.


The new trend is to pick awesome songs and give them an epic bombastic makeover!



(I like Britney Spears so what)


----------



## MauroPantin

I think there's an important distinction to be made here. 

You can use the orchestrator, and it can probably be put to good use if you make your own, custom-tailored presets for whatever it is that you are writing. IMO, that would take just as much time as doing it for real with a track for each instrument/articulation, but to each their own. Maybe if it's a texture you plan on using a lot it could help for a big project? Still, I don't see much use for it if you have to craft every orch combination... think what it would be like to re-create the Asteroid Field on that thing! Greatness will be difficult to achieve with it, but maybe for something simple it can help, perhaps.

The other situation is just having a good time on the keyboard using the provided presets which, to be fair, looks like is a huge collection and I'm sure it'll be a ton of fun. But it's instant gratification, there's hardly any orchestration skill involved, and I humbly believe that any learning gained from that will be marginal. 

The best way to learn orchestration beyond the basics is score study, and I think everybody who's ever been serious about orchestration knows that. A score gives you a birds eye view perspective of orchestration choices that going instrument by instrument in an isolated way through this tool is just not going to provide. You can get a lot of information on tessituras, doublings, dynamics, voice leading and note choice from a score. You can probably get SOME of that after a lot of clicking around to investigate a preset; now, how much of that is available and instantly obvious when checking out a preset vs a score, and which way is faster will depend on the skill of the user. But I am siding with the notation on that front. Why study a Superman preset when the actual score is available and filled with gems to discover? Not to mention that presets are static and with the score you can check out the development choices as the piece moves forward!

Anyway, that's on the learning front. There will be some who use the presets and compose music with them, and that is perfectly fine. There's room for everyone.


----------



## borisb2

so what if I have HWS and HWB diamond only? .. looks like its better to go for new purchase than upgrade to HOD first - IN CASE I want to get it ? .. I have no idea what is the price to upgrade to HOD from HWS/HWB would be these days .. but it would need to be less than 300.-


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I disagree with you on both fronts.



MauroPantin said:


> You can use the orchestrator, and it can probably be put to good use if you make your own, custom-tailored presets for whatever it is that you are writing. IMO, that would take just as much time as doing it for real with a track for each instrument/articulation, but to each their own. Maybe if it's a texture you plan on using a lot it could help for a big project? Still, I don't see much use for it if you have to craft every orch combination... think what it would be like to re-create the Asteroid Field on that thing! Greatness will be difficult to achieve with it, but maybe for something simple it can help, perhaps.


Let's forget the Scores section and look at something like Ostinatos. Those are fairly common, fairly standard, quite repetitive. How much time does say a media composer spend writing the same lines over and over in that regard? Thanks to MIDI export, I can just grab the MIDI - pre-made for me - in a second, any time I need to se it. You don't have to build every texture into this tool, but certainly if you know you need to re-use similar textures over and over, it would be time well spent. Could you do this just in an empty project with MIDI events? Sure - this is just another way.



MauroPantin said:


> The best way to learn orchestration beyond the basics is score study, and I think everybody who's ever been serious about orchestration knows that. A score gives you a birds eye view perspective of orchestration choices that going instrument by instrument in an isolated way through this tool is just not going to provide. You can get a lot of information on tessituras, doublings, dynamics, voice leading and note choice from a score. You can probably get SOME of that after a lot of clicking around to investigate a preset; now, how much of that is available and instantly obvious when checking out a preset vs a score, and which way is faster will depend on the skill of the user. But I am siding with the notation on that front. Why study a Superman preset when the actual score is available and filled with gems to discover? Not to mention that presets are static and with the score you can check out the development choices as the piece moves forward!


There's no "best way" to learn anything. Some of the best music has been created by people who have never looked at a score and can't read notation. And yet, their arrangement is superior to most of those people that are "serious about orchestration" and know all the vocabulary.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,


If the new OPUS engine, and articulations are much easier to use, and the sound of the new content, and overall library is improved, I might test it out via subscribing.

Did they post any info if the sections of the OPUS orchestra (i.e. Strings, Woodwinds, Brass, Perc.) can be installed on separate SSDs ?

Given we have 5 days left, hopefully they can release more videos, and post specs, info., audio demos, ..etc. before April 20th. I'm also hoping that the New OPUS engine is very efficient, possibly better than PLAY.

I don't need, or like using any orchestrator tools, so I would most likely not bother with that even if I had it.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## szczaw

muziksculp said:


> Did they post any info if the sections of the OPUS orchestra (i.e. Strings, Woodwinds, Brass, Perc.) can be installed on separate SSDs ?


According to Opus FAQ yes.


----------



## muziksculp

szczaw said:


> According to Opus FAQ yes.


Thanks.

Yes, but one needs to have both the i.e. HO Strings Diamond, and the new OPUS Strings to be in the same location/drive.

Quote from their FAQ:

_"Am I able to save the Orchestra Opus content to a drive separate from my existing Hollywood Orchestra Content?_

_No, you can split the sections to different devices, but any section will consolidate into the same directory. For example both Hollywood Strings Diamond and the Hollywood Strings Opus Edition Diamond will have to be in the same directory, but you could have Hollywood Brass and Hollywood Brass Opus Edition in the same directory in another location."_


----------



## DarinD

stargazer said:


> Well, I’m not gonna read through it all, and so far I haven’t found any info regarding articulation switching methods. Would you be so kind as to enlighten me?


Afraid to say I think I've ready every page... The only thing I recall is this observation, but it makes me hopeful:





__





Hollywood orchestra opus edition and hollywood orchestrator


I think this looks very intriguing! And I still use and love a lot of the "old" EW orchestra. I have a hard time figuring out the upgrade path though. I have some of the old libraries in gold form, some in diamond, I believe. So what should I choose to upgrade from? Here I really like...




vi-control.net


----------



## Chaosmod

Lazer42 said:


> Making music more accessible to people is a good thing, but there's a difference between making it more accessible for people to make music and having people take music that _somebody else _made and thinking and promoting that they themselves made it.
> 
> So some aspects of this kind of technology it seems to me do make it more accessible. The "divisimate" sort of feature here makes it more accessible. I don't think anyone really objects to that. Certainly there is a fine line somewhere in here in that this does make it possible for a less knowledgeable and skilled person to create some material which is equal to the output of a more knowledgeable and skilled person, which to a certain degree diminishes the value of the latter's skill and training - but there are also limits to what this kind of technology can (at least right now) allow somebody to produce and this entire dynamic is one that I think has a lot of gray area. In other words, there's a discussion to be had about where the good in this sort of thing is and where the bad, if any, is.
> 
> On the other hand, some of what this software is doing is different than that and amounts to basically a loop library which is being presented as a writing tool, and I think that's where some are taking issue. Does it have legitimate value as a tool for inspiration? I'd imagine so - at least no less than the value of listening to others' work for inspiration. The problem, it seems to me, is that this really blurs the line between inspiration and plagiarism. For example, it's one thing to listen to the Superman soundtrack to get some ideas about what to do with a project one is working on, while it's actually something quite different to go into your DAW and play a chord on the keyboard and literally have the Superman ostinato entered into the literal score you're working on. And again - there's also something very different about downloading a Superman MIDI file to look at the notes vs. going into your _composing suite _and "writing" that Superman ostinato into your score.
> 
> Altogether, I do think that there's a lot to like about some of the options this Orchestrator tool provides, but I also think there are legitimate questions about just what it means in terms of the legitimacy of the creative process. Making things easier for people is one thing (e.g., having Dorico vs. the tools Beethoven had available), writing music for people to put their own name on is something different.


I think people are getting hung up on _"the Superman ostinato"_ bit.

It is literally no different, in my thinking, than John Williams cribbing Korngold or Holst or Mahler because the director asked for it via the temp music. I'd say that _"blurs the line between inspiration and plagiarism"_ just as much.

I get that the popular mythos is _"he used his ears"_ or _"he studied the Korngold score"_ or whatever, but as *Pablo Picasso once said, “Good artists copy, great artists steal.” *John Williams has built a career on that mantra, but he's not alone.

Jazz artists freely "borrow" existing melody and harmonic structure from those who came before.

Mozart's Symphony #37 is LITERALLY Michael Haydn's Symphony #25 in G Major with the addition of a slow introduction!

*Mahler once said, “*_*A symphony must be like the world. It must embrace everything.”* _
Mahler’s Third Symphony transforms the melody from the final movement of Brahms’ First Symphony, itself a reference to Beethoven’s Ode to Joy theme. In the final bars of the first movement of Mahler’s Third Symphony, we hear a trumpet call reminiscent of Rossini’s famous William Tell Overture.

Damn, plagiarism again! OH NOES!! GET THE PITCHFORKS! All this information is freely available online. I googled to get some of this data! Perhaps I should have asked a reference librarian to show me the card catalogue instead?

*The bottom line is stop trying to be gatekeepers, it's ridiculous.* Borrowing is the past, and it is the future, and it is part of the business of being an artist, ESPECIALLY in this business.

It always has been.

If you're afraid of the impact this one tech-assisted sketching tool has on our profession, well... the next 10-20 years are going to be REALLY hard on you and challenge your viewpoints much more than my post does.


----------



## Toecutter

TigerTheFrog said:


> Maybe somebody has already mentioned this, but its exciting for me to think about getting Opus versions of Play libraries someday. I love Silk. The only thing I don't like about it is Play.


Watch 8:29 Silk is the first one XD


----------



## Chaosmod

Macrawn said:


> Lol, I can feel the let down from the day after already.


I feel like we'll all have a cigarette and then go make a sandwich and have a nap before moving on to the next catastrophic development on the internet.


----------



## MauroPantin

ALittleNightMusic said:


> There's no "best way" to learn anything. Some of the best music has been created by people who have never looked at a score and can't read notation. And yet, their arrangement is superior to most of those people that are "serious about orchestration" and know all the vocabulary.



"Best music" is a subjective term, just as the "best way" to learn something can be.

I'll grant you, you can write great orchestral music without knowing anything about orchestration. It'll just take you a lot more time than someone who has the fluency. 

We're talking about different things here. There is a difference between creativity or artistic instincts or whatever you want to call that, which is what you are talking about, and craft, which is what I am talking about. The quickest way to get craft is from score study and transcribing music. It is not the easiest way, and it is not as tempting or instantly gratifying. Also not as fun. But you don't get the consistency of guys like Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, Shore, et all and you don't churn out great stuff in record time like they do without knowing the particulars. Those memorable film music moments are not happy accidents. 

Regardless, that shouldn't stop you if you want to take the path of exploration. That is absolutely okay and perfectly valid. I'm not condemning that way of learning. But I think it is intellectually dishonest to not recognize that the surest path to fluency is active study in lieu of experimentation and instinct.


----------



## cqd

I hope things are getting more than a bloody face lift..


----------



## chocobitz825

industry secret...

your skills and your tools dont matter. the most skilled people dont always get the job. The best tools dont make you better.

someone will say that learning the traditional way is best because thats how composer A does it, and someone will come with the rebuttal that composer B became famous without traditional training....

meanwhile, the truth is people get their jobs because of their work ethic, their reliability, and connections. You skills and your tools may support the job you do, but you’re likely getting your jobs because of who you are and who you know. So buy what you want, do what you want, use whatever tools you want...get some good connections, and be consistent. No doubt a composer will come out and show his process in the future using orchestrator and a hypocritical lot who previously shit on it will praise it because now its what someone famous uses.

EW still aint the product for me right now, but I’m sure one day curiosity and an abundance of time to waste will lead me back to CC to try it out someday.


----------



## Toecutter

cqd said:


> I hope things are getting more than a bloody face lift..


That would be cool but I'd be very surprised if they revamped the whole keyswitch system for their entire collection. Silk in that promo video has the same old articulation system in a nice new skin.


----------



## Chaosmod

MauroPantin said:


> But I think it is intellectually dishonest to not recognize that the surest path to fluency is active study in lieu of experimentation and instinct.


I don't think anyone is questioning that active study is the surest path to fluency.

We're discussing a piece of software that is a sketching tool, and could automate some repetitive/mundane tasks. That's it.

When an A-list composer hands off a mundane task or cue to an assistant, no one bats an eye. 

Hand off that same mundane task to an AI? People lose their damn minds.

It isn't chipping away at the philosophical bedrock of the profession, or fostering intellectual dishonesty, or anything of the sort.


----------



## Oakran

I have mixed feelings about this. At the end of the day what I love when I compose is to build my music progressively layer by layer, note by note. When everything is working well it's a super satisfying feeling and I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about.
This kind of tool is like "press button"... boom done. Okay you can create your own presets but really what's the point ? It will take time anyway and then you're locked in a specific configuration.
I'm confident in my writing speed and I prefer to work in the good old fashioned way because it just makes me much more free as an artist. 

And as MauroPantin stated the best way to learn orchestration is well... to study your favorite scores directly and study every little detail. There's no shortcut. It's time consuming, tedious work but it's so worth it. 
I'm sure this kind of funny looking tool, benign in appearance might enslave artistic minds if not used properly. Yeah I know I sound like a 19th century peasant afraid of the train ^^


----------



## robgb

Everybody has questions, so when it's released, will there be a DEMO version? Considering they've created their own player, a timed demo shouldn't be too hard.


----------



## robgb

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Kanye West flipped a sample and sold more records than the original artist could ever dream of.


To each his own. To my mind, Kanye West is part of what's wrong with music today.


----------



## muziksculp

robgb said:


> Everybody has questions, so when it's released, will there be a DEMO version? Considering they've created their own player, a timed demo shouldn't be too hard.


I doubt it.


----------



## CDNmusic

robgb said:


> Everybody has questions, so when it's released, will there be a DEMO version? Considering they've created their own player, a timed demo shouldn't be too hard.


Subscribe for a month, 29.99 or something like that, pretty darn good deal, test it out, like it?, buy it/renew subscription, you don’t?, move on and keep making music with all the other great libraries out there. 

I don’t know how many developers provide demo versions, not many that I’m aware of.


----------



## Lazer42

Chaosmod said:


> I think people are getting hung up on _"the Superman ostinato"_ bit.
> 
> It is literally no different, in my thinking, than John Williams cribbing Korngold or Holst or Mahler because the director asked for it via the temp music. I'd say that _"blurs the line between inspiration and plagiarism"_ just as much.
> 
> I get that the popular mythos is _"he used his ears"_ or _"he studied the Korngold score"_ or whatever, but as *Pablo Picasso once said, “Good artists copy, great artists steal.” *John Williams has built a career on that mantra, but he's not alone.
> 
> Jazz artists freely "borrow" existing melody and harmonic structure from those who came before.
> 
> Mozart's Symphony #37 is LITERALLY Michael Haydn's Symphony #25 in G Major with the addition of a slow introduction!
> 
> *Mahler once said, “*_*A symphony must be like the world. It must embrace everything.”* _
> Mahler’s Third Symphony transforms the melody from the final movement of Brahms’ First Symphony, itself a reference to Beethoven’s Ode to Joy theme. In the final bars of the first movement of Mahler’s Third Symphony, we hear a trumpet call reminiscent of Rossini’s famous William Tell Overture.
> 
> Damn, plagiarism again! OH NOES!! GET THE PITCHFORKS! All this information is freely available online. I googled to get some of this data! Perhaps I should have asked a reference librarian to show me the card catalogue instead?
> 
> *The bottom line is stop trying to be gatekeepers, it's ridiculous.* Borrowing is the past, and it is the future, and it is part of the business of being an artist, ESPECIALLY in this business.
> 
> It always has been.
> 
> If you're afraid of the impact this one tech-assisted sketching tool has on our profession, well... the next 10-20 years are going to be REALLY hard on you and challenge your viewpoints much more than my post does.


I appreciate the thoughtful reply, but in truth there are several reasons that I don't find this post at all challenging.

First, I'm not worried about the impact this is going to have on the profession. I do think some people may be, but to me that's really giving this kind of software too much credit. My view is mainly just that it's something I am disinterested in personally because if I want to compose I want to actually compose myself, not have it done for me. It's roughly like the idea of people who use bots to win at StarCraft or other online games. If you get the win that way, what the heck is the point? What's the fun? What value is the reward if you didn't win the game yourself? Now I think it might be something fun to play around with here and there, and I can see people making legitimate use of it as a sketching tool, but beyond that? No, I don't think it will be important enough to significantly change the profession, let alone the art form.

Second, I think that this post doesn't quite draw an accurate comparison in terms of what the tool actually is or does. Even if we grant every claim about John Williams, for instance, there's a world of difference between taking another piece of music and adapting it to fit your purpose, orchestrating and arranging it, etc., vs. pressing a button and having the computer just spit out a copy of something. To draw another rough comparison, it's sortof like the difference between playing a piano piece on one of those electronic keyboards that lights up the right keys for you to press vs. sitting down at a real piano and playing the same piece entirely yourself, adding your own flourishes here and there.

Plus, this isn't just producing one Williams piece, but seems to have presets that reproduce a bunch of different works.

Third, I fundamentally disagree with the common claim about Williams' work and plagiarism, or "plagiarism lite," or even from the standpoint of "great artists steal" bit (more on that below). Yes, the Mars thing is pretty similar and was very clearly an "inspiration" or something much more direct. It's clearly a very, very close adaptation. Beyond that, though, I've listened to comparisons between Williams' work and various things he is supposed to have lifted stuff from and I find most of it thoroughly uncompelling and very superficial. I just don't think the charges hold up well - and as far as the Mars thing goes? There is nothing wrong with taking another piece of music and putting it into a score, if it fits. This kind of thing is done _all the time _with classical pieces, not to mention famous popular songs.

The issue is when you do something like that and then try to pass that off as your own work. If Williams was going around denying that he based that part of his score on Mars, that would be one thing. If he just put it in there because he was trying to satisfy George Lucas and he's happy to admit that, "yeah, that's basically Mars," then that's a totally different situation.

Beyond all of this, though, is a more fundamental point: even if Williams were objectively the worst plagiarist in the history of music, that wouldn't make it right or good.

This brings us to fourth, what I think may be the most important point because it addresses the philosophical foundation of the point that's trying to be made here: that "great artists steal" quote is just gotten all wrong here. First, it probably wasn't said by Picasso. The first major attribution of the quote to Picasso seems to have been made by Steve Jobs - a man who, ironically, took almost everything he did from Xerox and then spent the next few decades complaining that he thought Microsoft was doing the same thing to Apple. In reality, it seems like it may have first been said by TS Eliot, but the more important thing is that the meaning or intention of the quote was actually to repudiate or argue _against _the very idea that the quote is being put out there to argue here!

The idea the quote is trying to express is that whereas lesser artists try to imitate ("copy") others' work as closely as possible, great artists "steal" individual elements - i.e., they try to incorporate the best elements of others' work into their own. To quote another good explanation of this, "Well what does the quote ‘Good artists copy, great artists steal’ mean? A good artist simply copies another person’s art, while a great artist selectively takes or steals elements from other artists or sources and then collaborates them in a creative manner that makes the art completely unique. " https://www.quora.com/What-did-Pica...he-really-say-this-or-did-someone-else-say-it

To me, that's not what the preset element of this Hollywood Orchestrator does. Rather, it lets you "copy" - imitate as closely as possible. That Superman riff preset doesn't do anything to help a person learn from or draw from or take the best elements from the Superman theme and synthesize them with other elements that have been "stolen" from other works and then build something unique: it just lets a person reproduce almost exactly the Superman riff the way Williams wrote it.

More fundamentally, this is I think a basic foundational way that this aspect of the product (again, only this aspect; the rest might be great) seems to fail at promoting creativity and all the things that you seem to be arguing it aids or assists in: it doesn't provide any way to take different elements, different facets, different techniques, different things you can learn from other pieces of music and then synthesize them into something uniquely your own. Rather, it just seems to let you copy other work fairly directly. It's one thing to take the progressive use of brass timbres or some other aspect or technique from the Superman theme and combine it with different elements from other pieces into something new, and it's something else entirely to take the Superman theme, strip away the melody, and write your own melody over the top. The latter is what the presets in orchestrator - at least from what we've thus far seen of it - afford/promote.


----------



## cqd

Who gives a fnck really though..

These things already exist..

People are overthinking it..


----------



## Lazer42

Chaosmod said:


> I don't think anyone is questioning that active study is the surest path to fluency.
> 
> We're discussing a piece of software that is a sketching tool, and could automate some repetitive/mundane tasks. That's it.
> 
> When an A-list composer hands off a mundane task or cue to an assistant, no one bats an eye.
> 
> Hand off that same mundane task to an AI? People lose their damn minds.
> 
> It isn't chipping away at the philosophical bedrock of the profession, or fostering intellectual dishonesty, or anything of the sort.


I could be wrong, but I don't think this is what most people are criticizing here. Having an AI that can assign your string notes to the right section isn't all that different from having an assistant orchestrate your score (although a good composer is often scoring different harmonic parts to the individual instruments him or herself because there's a difference between the sound of having a violin vs. a cello or a horn vs. a trumpet play a phrase). 

That's very different from choosing a preset in a piece of software which then, based on your choice of tonic or chord, plays a particular pattern or rhythm which was composed by somebody else. I think that's the piece of this which is drawing the criticism.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

It was pretty predictable that some people would take issue with a tool that could make things easier and take some of the ability out of something, particularly when it is a highly skilled area that people make a living from. Same happened when automated and one knob/easier mixing/mastering plugins came out (Waves is most notable with their various producers series), and going really far back when things like Photoshop came out meaning you didn't have to worry so much about the details of a shot, etc. and all are completely valid concerns.

The positive is that in both mentioned prior cases neither really replaced those with the skill and talent, as the main users were those that could not afford to pay a professional producer or photographer and weren't interested in learning (usually because their main role was in another area, be it musician, model, editor, etc) and some professionals in both fields found uses for them and integrated them in various ways to speed up aspects of their work flow.

At the end of the day, this will be the same situation. AI will not replace the human element for a long time, and by then we'll be plugged into our computers consuming the content we are told to so won't even notice - skill and talent will be spoken of in the same way that historical abilities like stone napping are regarded nowadays.


----------



## Lazer42

cqd said:


> Who gives a fnck really though..
> 
> These things already exist..
> 
> People are overthinking it..


I think what it comes down to is less a matter of whether these tools are good or bad and more a matter of whether, given that Hollywood Orchestrator is such a tool, an individual is interested in the product. For instance, I'm not wringing my hands over this as though it's some great offense to music or anything - but what I am feeling is a lack of personal interest in the product because of what I now know it does.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

BTW, as a vocalist I HATE autotune - learn how to sing damnit!! BUT...there are very valid uses for it, especially for effect and a bit of pitch correction on the amazing take with one slight off note.


----------



## cqd

Lewis Emblack said:


> The positive is that in both mentioned prior cases neither really replaced those with the skill and talent,


This is probably true too..

(Although I also think the whole area is way oversaturated and music has lost any meaning as a consequence too..)


----------



## cqd

There will probably be a massive difference between someone who knows what he's doing using it to flesh out rhythmic backing quickly vs someone loading a preset and playing c f g too..


----------



## Lewis Emblack

cqd said:


> This is probably true too..
> 
> (Although I also think the whole area is way oversaturated and music has lost any meaning as a consequence too..)


But a lot of that is because everything is so accessible these days - hell, we are all discussing huge libraries of entire orchestras, when at one time the vast majority people never had such an opportunity and were in awe of those that did.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

It is quite odd to think at one point composers and musicians were likely raving about libraries in the first place, so it's interesting how these things are just accepted these days.


----------



## chocobitz825

robgb said:


> To each his own. To my mind, Kanye West is part of what's wrong with music today.


Honestly Kanye west is what’s wrong with a lot of things ....


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lazer42 said:


> it doesn't provide any way to take different elements, different facets, different techniques, different things you can learn from other pieces of music and then synthesize them into something uniquely your own.


It literally allows you to do that if you've watched the video. Once again, I think you're giving what the Orchestrator does for the composer way too much credit. It is in the end a pattern playback system. It happens to be loaded up with some patterns that it has taken from various places. You can mix and match those patterns. You can play the pattern with pizzicatos instead of staccatos. You can use a horn instead of a violin to play the pattern. You can see what happens if you double the pattern with another instrument or what happens if you lower the pattern an octave. You change the pattern yourself. It is all possible, but what's true with all of this is YOU have to do it. It doesn't do it for you. Just as if I took 2 measures of Harry Potter and said well, here are the 4 patterns that are occurring in these instruments, I'll use those as my base template and then apply my own chord progression, my own melody, my own tempo, mix up the instrumentation and articulations, maybe add in a pattern I really like from Holst, etc.


----------



## Lazer42

Lewis Emblack said:


> BTW, as a vocalist I HATE autotune - learn how to sing damnit!! BUT...there are very valid uses for it, especially for effect and a bit of pitch correction on the amazing take with one slight off note.


I hate it less because I think it takes the skill out of things and more because I think more often than not it sounds awful. For effects? Yeah, that's a good use. To correct a minor mistake here or there? That might work. 

When they autotune entire performances (or large portions of them) it drives me crazy because it's very audible to me and makes the singers sound terrible - so I don't think it's any kind of offense against the sanctity of the craft or anything. Quite the opposite. 


Actually, I really love it every November when they start playing all the old Christmas songs on the radio because suddenly you hear these natural vocals from singers who knew how to sing and it is just a real treat for the ear when you've heard nothing but autotuned stuff for 10 months.


----------



## cqd

chocobitz825 said:


> Honestly Kanye west is what’s wrong with a lot of things ....


Ahh..I like Kanye..I've never heard any of his music or anything, but shur he's completely mad..he was brought before the gods..His heart is in the right place..leave him off..


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Regarding the questions on keyswitches, you will be able to setup custom keyswitches for whatever articulations you want. Nick talks about it in the original video.


----------



## chocobitz825

cqd said:


> Ahh..I like Kanye..I've never heard any of his music or anything, but shur he's completely mad..he was brought before the gods..His heart is in the right place..leave him off..


The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Kanye may be a nice guy and have some good works, but the way he acts and the way the media feeds off him and creates a perpetual loop of scandals is why OPUS IS GOING TO RUIN MUSIC!!!!

but in all seriousness he’s another example of ideas and personality selling far more than just traditional music knowledge and skill...

I know a lot of people want to kick at AI and algorithms because those people put all those years of work into traditional study and want to make sure it’s not invalidated by a $299 software. It’s just such a meaningless debate because neither one equates directly to quality and accolades on their own. If education is a tool, and algorithms are tools, it all depends on how you use them to stand out, and get work.


----------



## Chaosmod

Lazer42 said:


> Actually, I really love it every November when they start playing all the old Christmas songs on the radio because suddenly you hear these natural vocals from singers who knew how to sing and it is just a real treat for the ear when you've heard nothing but autotuned stuff for 10 months.


Yeah, listening to Nat King Cole is a great palate cleanser, can't argue with that. Some of those old recordings are pure magic compared to modern pop fodder.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Lazer42 said:


> I hate it less because I think it takes the skill out of things and more because I think more often than not it sounds awful. For effects? Yeah, that's a good use. To correct a minor mistake here or there? That might work.
> 
> When they autotune entire performances (or large portions of them) it drives me crazy because it's very audible to me and makes the singers sound terrible - so I don't think it's any kind of offense against the sanctity of the craft or anything. Quite the opposite.
> 
> 
> Actually, I really love it every November when they start playing all the old Christmas songs on the radio because suddenly you hear these natural vocals from singers who knew how to sing and it is just a real treat for the ear when you've heard nothing but autotuned stuff for 10 months.


This is why I mainly listen to rock and metal and the only radio I ever listen to is Classic FM 🤣
But you exemplified my point perfectly - these tools abused is never going to equal real talent and skill.


----------



## cqd

Chaosmod said:


> Yeah, listening to Nat King Cole is a great palate cleanser, can't argue with that. Some of those old recordings are pure magic compared to modern pop fodder.


But like, the degradation there, just music not being what it was harmonically and stuff has been going on for years..


----------



## Lazer42

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It literally allows you to do that if you've watched the video. Once again, I think you're giving what the Orchestrator does for the composer way too much credit. It is in the end a pattern playback system. It happens to be loaded up with some patterns that it has taken from various places. You can mix and match those patterns. You can play the pattern with pizzicatos instead of staccatos. You can use a horn instead of a violin to play the pattern. You can see what happens if you double the pattern with another instrument or what happens if you lower the pattern an octave. You change the pattern yourself. It is all possible, but what's true with all of this is YOU have to do it. It doesn't do it for you. Just as if I took 2 measures of Harry Potter and said well, here are the 4 patterns that are occurring in these instruments, I'll use those as my base template and then apply my own chord progression, my own melody, my own tempo, mix up the instrumentation and articulations, maybe add in a pattern I really like from Holst, etc.


I think you're vastly overstating what the software can do. I saw no evidence that you can mix and match the patterns beyond something like playing one after another. 

I also think that almost none of what you mention represents the kind of "great artists steal" synthesis that I'm talking about here.

Taking one piece of music and changing the instrumentation is not that kind of creativity - at least not in any significant way. When I was a kid one of the first things I did musically speaking was play with this really simple MIDI playback program that came with my soundcard. It let you change the tempo and assign different instruments to different tracks and things like that. I used to take the Peter and the Wolf MIDI file that came with the card and change the instruments to polka instruments and I thought that was great. Now there's no question that that was a helpful kind of musical exploration for me and it did contribute to the interest and skillset in music that I eventually developed, and I think that this Hollywood Orchestrator absolutely could do that for some people today and that would be a good thing. 

But at the end of the day, I wasn't creating anything new when I was changing those MIDI program changes: it was still literally just Prokofiev, exactly. Not something inspired by Prokofiev. Not something drawn from or built in him - just him, with different instruments. It was great as a learning experience. It would have been lousy if I tried to pass it off as my own unique work. 

So taking some ostinato composed by Jerry Goldsmith, changing a few instruments, raising it by an octave, and changing the key? That might be a great learning experience, but I'm sorry it's not something I want to hear presented as somebody's own work.


----------



## chocobitz825

Lewis Emblack said:


> This is why I mainly listen to rock and metal and the only radio I ever listen to is Classic FM 🤣
> But you exemplified my point perfectly - these tools abused is never going to equal real talent and skill.


But they equate to a shit ton of revenue.....


----------



## Lewis Emblack

chocobitz825 said:


> But they equate to a shit ton of revenue.....


Of course they do, which leads to the question - why bother discussing talent and skill anymore as we are all already obsolete in the eyes (and ears) of the vast majority? I do it because I want to be proud of what I do even if I never make money. Many famous artists died unrecognised for the love of it.


----------



## chocobitz825

Lewis Emblack said:


> Of course they do, which leads to the question - why bother discussing talent and skill anymore as we are all already obsolete in the eyes (and ears) of the vast majority? I do it because I want to be proud of what I do even if I never make money. Many famous artists died unrecognised for the love of it.


Thats the only distinction that needs to be made. For the love of your art, do whatever you want and do it without regrets and hesitation. Express your artistic vision in a way that makes you proud!

Otherwise if it’s for work? Do whatever the hell works to pay the bills, and make good art on your off time.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

chocobitz825 said:


> Thats the only distinction that needs to be made. For the love of your art, do whatever you want and do it without regrets and hesitation. Express your artistic vision in a way that makes you proud!
> 
> Otherwise if it’s for work? Do whatever the hell works to pay the bills, and make good art on your off time.


Exactly, and back to what we are both saying - an orchestration tool is not going to affect any of that.


----------



## Lazer42

Lewis Emblack said:


> This is why I mainly listen to rock and metal and the only radio I ever listen to is Classic FM 🤣
> But you exemplified my point perfectly - these tools abused is never going to equal real talent and skill.


Oh I agree entirely. I am not one of those worried that this is going to somehow destroy the industry or turn random hacks into Oscar winners. I don't "object" to this because I think it's a threat to the purity of music or whatever. I'm just not interested in it because if I am going to write music myself, I want to write it myself as opposed to having John Williams or some EW intern write portions of it.


----------



## chocobitz825

Lazer42 said:


> Oh I agree entirely. I am not one of those worried that this is going to somehow destroy the industry or turn random hacks into Oscar winners. I don't "object" to this because I think it's a threat to the purity of music or whatever. I'm just not interested in it because if I am going to write music myself, I want to write it myself as opposed to having John Williams or some EW intern write portions of it.


Not gonna lie..I wish I had an intern right about now...I have too much to do and an intern or an AI assistant would be so helpful for all the mundane stuff I can’t drag myself up to do.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

chocobitz825 said:


> Not gonna lie..I wish I had an intern right about now...I have too much to do and an intern or an AI assistant would be so helpful for all the mundane stuff I can’t drag myself up to do.


Well funny you should ask! Can you wait until Monday? 😂


----------



## Steve Martin

Just watching the demo on the Hollywood Orchestrator, some amazing sounds there. In the "scores" category, did I get that correctly? - these can be actually printed out as scores - meaning exporting as a midi file with the notes for each track there?


----------



## dzilizzi

robgb said:


> Everybody has questions, so when it's released, will there be a DEMO version? Considering they've created their own player, a timed demo shouldn't be too hard.


Yes, it's called pay for a month of composers cloud and you can demo it all you want for a whole month.


----------



## MauroPantin

I doubt anyone's threatened by the tool itself. Or at least nobody should be, no gig's in jeopardy here. The "compose a blockbuster soundtrack in seconds" gist is, as all marketing, quite the hyperbole.



Steve Martin said:


> Just watching the demo on the Hollywood Orchestrator, some amazing sounds there. In the "scores" category, did I get that correctly? - these can be actually printed out as scores - meaning exporting as a midi file with the notes for each track there?


Should be, yeah. But a MIDI export for a virtual instrument and a workable score can be vastly different. It's usually a ton of work to turn the MIDI output of a project into readable notation.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lazer42 said:


> I think you're vastly overstating what the software can do. I saw no evidence that you can mix and match the patterns beyond something like playing one after another.
> 
> I also think that almost none of what you mention represents the kind of "great artists steal" synthesis that I'm talking about here.
> 
> Taking one piece of music and changing the instrumentation is not that kind of creativity - at least not in any significant way. When I was a kid one of the first things I did musically speaking was play with this really simple MIDI playback program that came with my soundcard. It let you change the tempo and assign different instruments to different tracks and things like that. I used to take the Peter and the Wolf MIDI file that came with the card and change the instruments to polka instruments and I thought that was great. Now there's no question that that was a helpful kind of musical exploration for me and it did contribute to the interest and skillset in music that I eventually developed, and I think that this Hollywood Orchestrator absolutely could do that for some people today and that would be a good thing.
> 
> But at the end of the day, I wasn't creating anything new when I was changing those MIDI program changes: it was still literally just Prokofiev, exactly. Not something inspired by Prokofiev. Not something drawn from or built in him - just him, with different instruments. It was great as a learning experience. It would have been lousy if I tried to pass it off as my own unique work.
> 
> So taking some ostinato composed by Jerry Goldsmith, changing a few instruments, raising it by an octave, and changing the key? That might be a great learning experience, but I'm sorry it's not something I want to hear presented as somebody's own work.


How am I vastly overstating it? Everything I wrote is possible based on what they've shown. The editor has copy and paste built in. You can even, gasp, use TWO instances to mix and match!

So the Orchestrator requires you to enter your own harmony, your own melody, you can change everything up in the "recipe", and somehow it is still somebody else's work? So let me get this right - every ostinato you've ever written is totally unique? Every voicing of a clarinet section? Every combination of strings and brass? You have never lifted from anybody in that regard? Because I'd call bullshit on that.

The Orchestrator simply provides you a palette to work with. It does not suddenly spit out music by John Williams that you can take credit for.


----------



## Chaosmod

Lazer42 said:


> I think you're vastly overstating what the software can do. I saw no evidence that you can mix and match the patterns beyond something like playing one after another.
> 
> I also think that almost none of what you mention represents the kind of "great artists steal" synthesis that I'm talking about here.
> 
> Taking one piece of music and changing the instrumentation is not that kind of creativity - at least not in any significant way. When I was a kid one of the first things I did musically speaking was play with this really simple MIDI playback program that came with my soundcard. It let you change the tempo and assign different instruments to different tracks and things like that. I used to take the Peter and the Wolf MIDI file that came with the card and change the instruments to polka instruments and I thought that was great. Now there's no question that that was a helpful kind of musical exploration for me and it did contribute to the interest and skillset in music that I eventually developed, and I think that this Hollywood Orchestrator absolutely could do that for some people today and that would be a good thing.
> 
> But at the end of the day, I wasn't creating anything new when I was changing those MIDI program changes: it was still literally just Prokofiev, exactly. Not something inspired by Prokofiev. Not something drawn from or built in him - just him, with different instruments. It was great as a learning experience. It would have been lousy if I tried to pass it off as my own unique work.
> 
> So taking some ostinato composed by Jerry Goldsmith, changing a few instruments, raising it by an octave, and changing the key? That might be a great learning experience, but I'm sorry it's not something I want to hear presented as somebody's own work.


I appreciate that you are continuing the discussion, but I feel like you're vastly understating what the software can do, and what talented people will do with it.

This isn't simply a "rearranger" as your midi anecdote implies. It don't see it being anywhere near "taking some ostinato composed by Jerry Goldsmith, changing a few instruments, raising it by an octave, and changing the key." That's a logical fallacy, the straw man.

EW has already said the midi can be exported into separate tracks and is fully editable in every way that midi is editable in your DAW.

I feel like you'll only be able to tell it's being used in the hands of a novice. Once a a talented composer gets their hands on it, there will be no limits to their creativity.

That being said, did Cubase provide midi as result of my input into the chord track? Does anyone even care? I can't tell when someone has used a chord track in their DAW as a guide, for example, and I doubt you can either.

That's what this is - just another tool in the DAW, that might help a television composer, for example, get closer to the 5-8 minutes a day they need to get completed in order to meet their deadline.

If we hear the final work, and we can't tell if Orchestrator was used, it really doesn't matter, does it?

I still feel that there may be folks worried that someone else's Orchestrator output might sound better than their work.


----------



## Steve Martin

thanks for that Mauro - that's great to know.


----------



## cqd

Steve Martin said:


> thanks for that Mauro - that's great to know.


You were great in father of the bride..


----------



## Lazer42

ALittleNightMusic said:


> How am I vastly overstating it? Everything I wrote is possible based on what they've shown. The editor has copy and paste built in. You can even, gasp, use TWO instances to mix and match!
> 
> So the Orchestrator requires you to enter your own harmony, your own melody, you can change everything up in the "recipe", and somehow it is still somebody else's work? So let me get this right - every ostinato you've ever written is totally unique? Every voicing of a clarinet section? Every combination of strings and brass? You have never been lifted from anybody in that regard? Because I'd call bullshit on that.
> 
> The Orchestrator simply provides you a palette to work with. It does not suddenly spit out music by John Williams that you can take credit for.


The demo literally demonstrated it suddenly spitting out music by John Williams, among others. It is being "advertised" as including presets to do so.


----------



## Lazer42

Chaosmod said:


> I appreciate that you are continuing the discussion, but I feel like you're vastly understating what the software can do, and what talented people will do with it.
> 
> This isn't simply a "rearranger" as your midi anecdote implies. It don't see it being anywhere near "taking some ostinato composed by Jerry Goldsmith, changing a few instruments, raising it by an octave, and changing the key." That's a logical fallacy, the straw man.
> 
> EW has already said the midi can be exported into separate tracks and is fully editable in every way that midi is editable in your DAW.
> 
> I feel like you'll only be able to tell it's being used in the hands of a novice. Once a a talented composer gets their hands on it, there will be no limits to their creativity.
> 
> That being said, did Cubase provide midi as result of my input into the chord track? Does anyone even care? I can't tell when someone has used a chord track in their DAW as a guide, for example, and I doubt you can either.
> 
> That's what this is - just another tool in the DAW, that might help a television composer, for example, get closer to the 5-8 minutes a day they need to get completed in order to meet their deadline.
> 
> If we hear the final work, and we can't tell if Orchestrator was used, it really doesn't matter, does it?
> 
> I still feel that there may be folks worried that someone else's Orchestrator output might sound better than their work.


I don't disagree with you at all that there are a lot of things one can do with this kind of software. I've been trying to make a pretty important distinction but I get the impression that I haven't done so very well so let me try to restate it more clearly: a person who starts - more or less - from scratch and uses this tool can probably produce all sorts of stuff with it and it can be very helpful.

Put this kind of thing in the hands of a truly creative person and yes, I'm sure they can do some good stuff. Of course, they could do some good stuff without it, too, but maybe the tool may make it a bit faster or help them in some other way.

I'm not criticizing or questioning or otherwise coming down on any of that. I honestly don't think I'd ever want to use this sort of thing - it's just not how I think or how I work, but plenty of other people might have a use for it and that's fine. 

- but that's different from starting from one of these presets that is essentially a facsimile of some famous score, or heck, even just something original written by an intern or some kind of contractor for EW. That's what I'm taking issue with. Start the Orchestrator with a blank slate and that's something completely different.


----------



## Trash Panda

Now if we have someone feed Scaler 2, Captain Chords, or Orb Composer into the orchestrator, we might have the perfect storm of controversy to achieve the VI-C drama zone singularity.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Trash Panda said:


> Now if we have someone feed Scaler 2, Captain Chords, or Orb Composer into the orchestrator, we might have the perfect storm of controversy to achieve the VI-C drama zone singularity.


shhh! Or we'll never hear the end of it!


----------



## szczaw

Lazer42 said:


> - but that's different from starting from one of these presets that is essentially a facsimile of some famous score, or heck, even just something original written by an intern or some kind of contractor for EW. That's what I'm taking issue with. Start the Orchestrator with a blank slate and that's something completely different.


If someone stars with presets and produces music that people appreciate then what difference does that make ? Should the listener be informed and look for something that was made from scratch instead ? I should somehow appreciate music made 'by hand' more ? It's completely irrelevant to me how something was made. It's the end result that counts.


----------



## szczaw

I think there are far more 'dangerous' and 'offending' tools and techniques out there, than simple and limited arpeggiation, that fly completely under the radar. Suddenly there's a controversy because EW produced a nice or even great sounding arpeggiator. If the library or presets sounded bad, would there be objections as well ?


----------



## AndyP

I can't keep up with this discussion.

We use computers and VIs for music of all kinds to "fake". 
Countless mockups of scores are "reprogrammed" with the goal of getting as close as possible to the original, and no one bothers. All with the help of technology.

Arpeggiators have been used for ages to create music. There are whole new genres of music that have been created because of such techniques.
Music has become more diverse, I'm not saying better, but music is evolving.

Discussing whether JW scores presets are useful is something I can understand. Everything else not anymore.

How someone reaches the goal, how a composition is ultimately achieved, is of no interest to anyone except composers who work in a "similar" way.

It is up to everyone to decide for himself how he gets to the goal. Plagiarism is another topic, but plagiarism often arises unconsciously, that is in the matter of nature.

The orchestrator is a tool and who has neither musical nor technical skills may generate a curious, terribly or ingenious piece of music that someone would never have come up with without this tool. Chance has always been a part of the creative process. 

You can use it as a preset box, or get creative. Nothing more, nothing less. How many VIs are there that offer similar features? Countless, and they are used. For a long time.

Now if someone accepts composing only as a piece of paper and pencil, or a live instrument track, then that's ok too. But I think few will work exclusively that way.

Who defines the limit of what is "allowed" or "accepted"? Do we have to introduce rules from when or until when someone is a composer?

Whoever wants to use it should do so, whoever does not want to use it should leave it alone.


----------



## ThomasS

Chaosmod said:


> I feel like you'll only be able to tell it's being used in the hands of a novice. Once a a talented composer gets their hands on it, there will be no limits to their creativity.


I agree with this. Everyone bragging here that they are "good composers" and hence would never use the Orchestrator makes no sense. If you can't do something interesting and original with the Orchestrator then you are not a good composer. That being said, maybe you don't _want_ to use it, and lot of people don't _need_ it, and that is fine. But like any tool, if you are a creative composer you should be able to find something you can do with it that suits your style and sensibility.

I have never used Sonuscore The Orchestra in any final mix, but I enjoy playing around with it, and on a few occasions I have found interesting ideas and chord progressions that I ended up using with other sounds. It is only a composing and sketching tool, not an orchestration one, but I like it for that alone. That may be the only thing I might do with the Orchestrator, and I would never use a pre-existing preset that sounds like anything else.

This will not be the last program to do this kind of thing, and I agree that novices will use it in a way that we can all tell, but that doesn't mean that more experieced composers cannot do something more original with it.


----------



## chocobitz825

ThomasS said:


> If you can't do something interesting and original with the Orchestrator then you are not a good composer.


Thems is fighting words!


----------



## MarcusD

I can understand the concerns, but at the end of the day, you can have all the technique, theory and tools in the world and still bake a cake with a soggy bottom just to have Paul Hollywood chew your ears off and rub your face in the mess you created.


----------



## Quantum Leap

I just came back to take a look. Woah! The passion! I don’t know if I would use the orchestrator. I have to see if it would save me time or be a creative helper. I know this. I always try to start a new tune using different instruments and approaching from a different angle to try and inspire something unique. So I’m thinking the orchestrator might do that. It could be very interesting to use sometimes, as long as it’s not cumbersome or tedious. It doesn’t look like it is tedious. They must have a done a great job to get you guys in such an uproar.


----------



## Nicola74

I am much more interested in the "real" sound of Opus (legato, staccato...) than in the orchestrator


----------



## Thorgod10

Nicola74 said:


> I am much more interested in the "real" sound of Opus (legato, staccato...) than in the orchestrator


Indeed, before preordering I kinda need to know....what it sounds like?


----------



## Markrs

MarcusD said:


> soggy bottom


Love the Bake Off reference, though it used to be Mary Berry that would talk about soggy bottoms 😁


----------



## MarcusD

Markrs said:


> Love the Bake Off reference, though it used to be Mary Berry that would talk about soggy bottoms 😁



Every time I hear the name Merry Berry I get ptbd (post traumatic bake-off disorder). I'm deeply haunted by images her handling rolling pins in a provoking manner while staring deeply into contestants eyes.


----------



## robgb

CDNmusic said:


> Subscribe for a month, 29.99 or something like that, pretty darn good deal, test it out, like it?, buy it/renew subscription, you don’t?, move on and keep making music with all the other great libraries out there.
> 
> I don’t know how many developers provide demo versions, not many that I’m aware of.


Why should I pay to try a demo? That's ridiculous.


----------



## Russell Anderson

robgb said:


> Why should I pay to try a demo? That's ridiculous.


At the same time, it's a better offering than every other company besides Vienna. I wish more companies offered demos.


----------



## Geomir

robgb said:


> Why should I pay to try a demo? That's ridiculous.


Technically you are not paying for any demo. You get full access to all of EWs libraries, the existing and the future ones. It's just that many people use it in a smart way to demo the libraries they are interested in.

And since EW doesn't allow reselling / license transfer, then the risk factor increases. So better to pay $29 to test all the libraries EW offer, than spending i.e. $400 and regret it.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Guys, after reading back over the last few pages, I am afraid I have sinned and feel I have to confess...I can play the guitar pretty well and keyboard pretty poorly, but I have something for both that enable me to write things I wouldn't otherwise be able to create at all....chord books. With actual fingerings...
Please forgive me....


----------



## Fa

Finally I had the time to watch the Orchestrator video. Funny enough, the sound examples sound way better than previous demos... But...

Curious to see if they will sound like that "out of the box" or they did after expert, accurate and time consuming sound balance and processing with a professional effect chain.

I wonder, because before none of the ready HO and Spaces setup sounded really like that. 
The advantage of an Orchestrator preset is the system knows sound input and expected effects in advance, and then a good mixer and effects chain preset is definitely possible.

If the presets will include good sound mix, that will obviously be good added value, let's see...


----------



## Petrucci

I wish they showed us before 20th how reworked woodwinds sound (if it was done).. And how new samples sound - That is interesting, for me at least. Orchestrator might be fun but not enough for 495$, I'd rather put those money in VSL ES.


----------



## AllanH

I think the Orchestrator looks pretty interesting. I find it interesting to have a large collection of ostinatos etc to play with should I be "stuck" somewhere. I think it's much like the hundreds of presets in my synths. Great starting points, but not music in itself. All-in-all, this looks like a well designed piece of software that does a particular thing well. I still wish there was a more attractive upgrade price for existing customers, but that's not to be.


----------



## Braveheart

Following some people‘s logic, we shouldn’t use sample libraries, but instead learn the craft of each instrument , play and record each notes, etc.

But we have time-saver tools like these, either for inspiration or just to play with. Great work EW!


----------



## Evans

Braveheart said:


> Following some people‘s logic, we shouldn’t use sample libraries, but instead learn the craft of each instrument , play and record each notes, etc


No. I think there's literally not a single user registered at VI-C who would actually say that.


----------



## ThomasS

I am a confused by something _said_ in the Orchestrator walkthrough but not _shown_.

It says the midi editor can program either “Simple rhythms, complex arpeggios, or _EVEN MELODIC MOTION_”

It’s that third one – “melodic motion” – that has no example shown or played. Why would they say this and not show it? But why would they say it if it cannot do it?

Melodic motion, to me, is more than just a rhythm, and more than skipping to a chordal note (arpeggio). It is moving around a scale to different notes not necessarily in the played chord. In which case, does it define the scale, or can you do so? (if not, what use would it be?)

Perhaps this will be in a future walkthrough, or perhaps I am misunderstanding what they mean by melodic motion? Does anyone know the answer?


----------



## chocobitz825

Evans said:


> No. I think there's literally not a single user registered at VI-C who would actually say that.


could you imagine having GAS for both virtual instruments and each of the instruments in an ensemble!? We’d need a new forum for all the deals, tips, tricks and outrage.


----------



## Macrawn

In terms of price I think $400 bucks is pretty darn reasonable for a complete orchestra. That's a better price than bbc core. I know that's an upgrade price but no other company out there would put something like that out for less than $400 bucks regardless of how many libraries you have from them. They call it a separate product and that's it. BBC core is more than that even on sale, but isn't this product more comparable to the pro version?

I know a lot of people are crying about the orchestrator, but even if they didn't make it, there is no way you would get the library for less than $400 bucks at release. I know people are thinking I'd rather scrap the orchestrator and get the library for like $300 bucks. Even if they never made the orchestrator I don't think you would see an upgrade price for less than $400 bucks regardless. 

The orchestrator is that marketing piece that will attract more buyers and give them something that the rest of the big players don't have. I'm pretty sure it's why they had the delay and it's probably been a huge pain to make, and the cost of it honestly isn't really priced in. I imagine they debated a long time internally whether to price it separately in addition to the $400 bucks and easily could have, but keeping the whole thing as one cohesive unit was probably important. 

Even $800 non upgrade price isn't exactly out of line considering most companies offer sections for like $300 plus each (usually more). That's at least $1200 bucks and usually sale price and you wait like 5 years to get the whole thing and you are still waiting to get woods. BBC Pro is $950 but on super sale maybe $600 a couple times a year? Maybe on black friday you get this $400 non upgrade price?

So if you don't use the orchestrator it's not like you are getting a bad deal. Even people who don't want to use it might find it useful for sketching here or there and they can wash their hands after using it.


----------



## Lazer42

szczaw said:


> If someone stars with presets and produces music that people appreciate then what difference does that make ? Should the listener be informed and look for something that was made from scratch instead ? I should somehow appreciate music made 'by hand' more ? It's completely irrelevant to me how something was made. It's the end result that counts.



I think people are looking at this sortof like, if you'll indulge the analogy, spice mixes that you buy in the grocery store where you're being given a sortof general flavor profile to start out with but most of what you cook with them is still going to be something that you yourself made. Beyond the spice mix, there are still plenty of other ingredients going in and all of the actual technique required to cook the meal that nobody is going to say, "nah, mom didn't really make that: she just copied McCormick!"

I don't think that that's what's going on _at all _with one of these preset libraries. To me, it's more like: imagine if the next release of Dorico started to include a large library of Lyrics Presets. Maybe some of them were written by Steinberg while others are verses copied from various famous songs, and all of them are there in Dorico for users to use in their songs. Or, what if the next release of Microsoft Word included preset phrases, some of which were taken from famous poems and novels, which users were free to use in their own works. 

I would imagine most people would immediately see the problem with those scenarios, and I'd also imagine that the idea that some users might take them as starting points and modify them for their own work wouldn't be enough to justify it for most people. "Somewhere over the valley blackbirds sing." Totally original, right?

That's the issue with presets like this, at least if one is using them to actually produce music. If someone is just messing around with them, having fun, trying to learn, trying to draw inspiration, etc., then fine. When somebody starts taking something written by someone else - and it doesn't matter if that's a famous film composer or some uncredited person in a little EW cubicle somewhere - and using that as the basis for the own work - outside of very particular exceptions like the one that's already been raised of Williams trying to imitate a classical piece because the director wanted that exact sound - there's a problem with that.


----------



## davidson

Toecutter said:


> Watch 8:29 Silk is the first one XD



So we can assume silk etc are not getting the opus treatment, at least not in the foreseeable?

Edit: Oh wait, he says the redesigned all the old interfaces. Are they not the old interfaces shown in the video then? They're still using play right?


----------



## Evans

Lazer42 said:


> To me, it's more like: imagine if the next release of Dorico started to include a large library of Lyrics Presets. Maybe some of them were written by Steinberg while others are verses copied from various famous songs, and all of them are there in Dorico for users to use in their songs. Or, what if the next release of Microsoft Word included preset phrases, some of which were taken from famous poems and novels, which users were free to use in their own works.


I like this analogy, though I'll still offer another that I used in a one-on-one conversation.

A lot of people here seem to play video games or even write for video games. As I imagine most know, there are companies that provide reusable assets or even full engines.

Some of these are reusable "physical" assets, such as models for a gun or a radioactive barrel or a vehicle. This may even include stock animations, like how a humanoid character walks. These can be used as-is or modified. Some reusable aspects are engine-focused and address the way lighting or physics work.

So, where is the line crossed at which "too much" of the original, stock asset remains? Imagine seeing the same red, explosive barrel model in the next Half-life game as well as the next, I don't know, Doom game (I'm not much of a gamer, please excuse my 1990s references). Imagine if they even made the same sound in each game when they explode. Would it "take you out of the game," so to speak?

For me, that's the clincher if working in a professional setting (that may require extreme efficiency and you may even be mandated to "mimic" another track) and not for the sake of the art of music: does the average audience member or customer have their suspension of disbelief diminished with what you have delivered?

For better or worse, this is subjective. So, know your audience.


----------



## Trash Panda

Macrawn said:


> In terms of price I think $400 bucks is pretty darn reasonable for a complete orchestra. That's a better price than bbc core. I know that's an upgrade price but no other company out there would put something like that out for less than $400 bucks regardless of how many libraries you have from them. They call it a separate product and that's it. BBC core is more than that even on sale, but isn't this product more comparable to the pro version?
> 
> I know a lot of people are crying about the orchestrator, but even if they didn't make it, there is no way you would get the library for less than $400 bucks at release. I know people are thinking I'd rather scrap the orchestrator and get the library for like $300 bucks. Even if they never made the orchestrator I don't think you would see an upgrade price for less than $400 bucks regardless.
> 
> The orchestrator is that marketing piece that will attract more buyers and give them something that the rest of the big players don't have. I'm pretty sure it's why they had the delay and it's probably been a huge pain to make, and the cost of it honestly isn't really priced in. I imagine they debated a long time internally whether to price it separately in addition to the $400 bucks and easily could have, but keeping the whole thing as one cohesive unit was probably important.
> 
> Even $800 non upgrade price isn't exactly out of line considering most companies offer sections for like $300 plus each (usually more). That's at least $1200 bucks and usually sale price and you wait like 5 years to get the whole thing and you are still waiting to get woods. BBC Pro is $950 but on super sale maybe $600 a couple times a year? Maybe on black friday you get this $400 non upgrade price?
> 
> So if you don't use the orchestrator it's not like you are getting a bad deal. Even people who don't want to use it might find it useful for sketching here or there and they can wash their hands after using it.


You’re missing the point.

HWOD on sale: $386-$499
HWOD Opus Upgrade Intro Offer: $495
Total cost: $881-$995 on sale

Opus Full Pre-Order Offer: $795

EW Marketing had been pushing the message to buy HWO on their big sale prices to get the best price on Opus when it comes out. Even with the deepest discounts they ran, it’s still nearly $100 more than a non-HWO owning customer would pay.

Your BBCSO Pro comparison doesn’t work either because the full Opus product after pre-order is within $100 for what is largely a re-packaged $400-$500 library with a new GUI and arpeggiator.


----------



## Macrawn

Trash Panda said:


> You’re missing the point.
> 
> HWOD on sale: $386-$499
> HWOD Opus Upgrade Intro Offer: $495
> Total cost: $881-$995 on sale
> 
> Opus Full Pre-Order Offer: $795
> 
> EW Marketing had been pushing the message to buy HWO on their big sale prices to get the best price on Opus when it comes out. Even with the deepest discounts they ran, it’s still nearly $100 more than a non-HWO owning customer would pay.
> 
> Your BBCSO Pro comparison doesn’t work either because the full Opus product after pre-order is within $100 for what is largely a re-packaged $400-$500 library with a new GUI and arpeggiator.


Crap you are right. I guess a lot of it is repackaged recordings. That sucks. Should be $200 bucks in that case max. BBCSO wins then.


----------



## gst98

Macrawn said:


> In terms of price I think $400 bucks is pretty darn reasonable for a complete orchestra. That's a better price than bbc core. I know that's an upgrade price but no other company out there would put something like that out for less than $400 bucks regardless of how many libraries you have from them. They call it a separate product and that's it. BBC core is more than that even on sale, but isn't this product more comparable to the pro version?
> 
> I know a lot of people are crying about the orchestrator, but even if they didn't make it, there is no way you would get the library for less than $400 bucks at release. I know people are thinking I'd rather scrap the orchestrator and get the library for like $300 bucks. Even if they never made the orchestrator I don't think you would see an upgrade price for less than $400 bucks regardless.
> 
> The orchestrator is that marketing piece that will attract more buyers and give them something that the rest of the big players don't have. I'm pretty sure it's why they had the delay and it's probably been a huge pain to make, and the cost of it honestly isn't really priced in. I imagine they debated a long time internally whether to price it separately in addition to the $400 bucks and easily could have, but keeping the whole thing as one cohesive unit was probably important.
> 
> Even $800 non upgrade price isn't exactly out of line considering most companies offer sections for like $300 plus each (usually more). That's at least $1200 bucks and usually sale price and you wait like 5 years to get the whole thing and you are still waiting to get woods. BBC Pro is $950 but on super sale maybe $600 a couple times a year? Maybe on black friday you get this $400 non upgrade price?
> 
> So if you don't use the orchestrator it's not like you are getting a bad deal. Even people who don't want to use it might find it useful for sketching here or there and they can wash their hands after using it.



Not to mention that until Voyage comes out there isn’t an Orchestra with as deep a sampling. (other than maybe VSL which is way more expensive). But let’s be real, nothing comes close to HWS with sampling content and legato types, dynamic layers and chromatic sampling. BBCSO is just shortcut after shortcut and poor programming.

Anyone who thinks $800 is anything other than highly competitive needs to look at the competition.


----------



## Lazer42

Evans said:


> I like this analogy, though I'll still offer another that I used in a one-on-one conversation.
> 
> A lot of people here seem to play video games or even write for video games. As I imagine most know, there are companies that provide reusable assets or even full engines.
> 
> Some of these are reusable "physical" assets, such as models for a gun or a radioactive barrel or a vehicle. This may even include stock animations, like how a humanoid character walks. These can be used as-is or modified. Some reusable aspects are engine-focused and address the way lighting or physics work.
> 
> So, where is the line crossed at which "too much" of the original, stock asset remains? Imagine seeing the same red, explosive barrel model in the next Half-life game as well as the next, I don't know, Doom game (I'm not much of a gamer, please excuse my 1990s references). Imagine if they even made the same sound in each game when they explode. Would it "take you out of the game," so to speak?
> 
> For me, that's the clincher if working in a professional setting (that may require extreme efficiency and you may even be mandated to "mimic" another track) and not for the sake of the art of music: does the average audience member or customer have their suspension of disbelief diminished with what you have delivered?
> 
> For better or worse, this is subjective. So, know your audience.


This is a decent analogy, but what I'd say as someone who up until 5 months ago had spent the last ten years gaming pretty heavily and involved with various gaming communities is that players do notice this sort of thing and comment on it, sometimes critically. 

But here's what I think is the more important thing about this: the vast majority of players whose opinions I ever read (and that was a lot over 10 years in internet forums, reddit, etc.) had a pretty clear distinction in their thinking between "lovingly crafted" (to put a cheesy term on it) AAA games and the hordes of cookie cutter, mass-produced games (often or usually mobile games) that got churned out at a mind boggling pace, often from but not always from Chinese or Korean (though not so much Japanese) companies which seemed to operate on the quantity over quality mantra - and it was very, very, very, _very _frequently or even usually those mass produced, cookie cutter mobile games which reused the same assets from one product to the next.

In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that seeing a reused asset was pretty frequently the thing that got players to categorize a game among the mass-produced cookie cutters. 

In other words, seeing this kind of asset reuse is, at least based on what I saw over the past 10 years, something that causes people to look down on a game and regard it as low quality or not worth their time. 

Now I actually don't think that this is that controversial as far as Hollywood Orchestrator is concerned. My impression is that just about everyone, including both those who are critical of what the software offers and those who are spending time defending it, are generally agreed that if you just take the presets and produce music that is too heavily based on those that it's not going to be very good or very well received.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

gst98 said:


> Anyone who thinks $800 is anything other than highly competitive needs to look at the competition.


Jeez, I paid $500 for Hollywood Strings Gold ten years ago (on sale), and I thought it was worth it. It’s still the best string library I’ve ever worked with. Even better was the upgrades to Diamond for $49 each a few months ago, a total bargain.


----------



## gst98

Trash Panda said:


> You’re missing the point.
> 
> HWOD on sale: $386-$499
> HWOD Opus Upgrade Intro Offer: $495
> Total cost: $881-$995 on sale
> 
> Opus Full Pre-Order Offer: $795
> 
> EW Marketing had been pushing the message to buy HWO on their big sale prices to get the best price on Opus when it comes out. Even with the deepest discounts they ran, it’s still nearly $100 more than a non-HWO owning customer would pay.
> 
> Your BBCSO Pro comparison doesn’t work either because the full Opus product after pre-order is within $100 for what is largely a re-packaged $400-$500 library with a new GUI and arpeggiator.



HOD has been a steal at a ridiculous price for the last few years. At least for now, the price is going up, but still remains highly competitive. Just because it was available for a low price doesn’t mean it always has to be


----------



## cqd

gst98 said:


> HOD has been a steal at a ridiculous price for the last few years. At least for now, the price is going up, but still remains highly competitive. Just because it was available for a low price doesn’t mean it always has to be


EXACTLY!!...

Talk about an ungrateful shower..


----------



## Nuno

I was checking the system requirments on EW page and noticed the recommended specs for the new Opus edition are much higher than the current specs for Hollywood Orchestra.


*PC RECOMMENDED SYSTEM (Hollywood Orchestra)*


Intel Core 2 Quad, or AMD Quad Core 2.66GHz or higher
16GB RAM or more
64-bit Windows/Host Sequencer
Sound card with ASIO drivers
SSD (Solid State Drive) for sample streaming

*RECOMMENDED SYSTEM (Opus Edition)*


CPU: Octa-core (eight cores), running at 2.7 GHz (or above)
RAM: 32 GB or more
OS: macOS 10.13 (or later); Windows 10 with ASIO sound drivers
Drive: NVMe SSD

Is this due only to the orchestrator engine alone?

I was thinking to jump on a year plan for Composer Cloud but fear my i7-9750H @ 2.60GHz (6 cores) might not be up to the task...


----------



## Flyo

$500 HOD on sale 
$495 Opus Upgrade Special Price Pre Order (for only few days before even know anything besides one video demo) 
$795 For New Costumers????

$550 BBC Pro on sale (Already Having Discovery)


----------



## Evans

Lazer42 said:


> This is a decent analogy, but what I'd say as someone who up until 5 months ago had spent the last ten years gaming pretty heavily and involved with various gaming communities is that players do notice this sort of thing and comment on it, sometimes critically.
> 
> But here's what I think is the more important thing about this: the vast majority of players whose opinions I ever read (and that was a lot over 10 years in internet forums, reddit, etc.) had a pretty clear distinction in their thinking between "lovingly crafted" (to put a cheesy term on it) AAA games and the hordes of cookie cutter, mass-produced games (often or usually mobile games) that got churned out at a mind boggling pace, often from but not always from Chinese or Korean (though not so much Japanese) companies which seemed to operate on the quantity over quality mantra - and it was very, very, very, _very _frequently or even usually those mass produced, cookie cutter mobile games which reused the same assets from one product to the next.
> 
> In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that seeing a reused asset was pretty frequently the thing that got players to categorize a game among the mass-produced cookie cutters.
> 
> In other words, seeing this kind of asset reuse is, at least based on what I saw over the past 10 years, something that causes people to look down on a game and regard it as low quality or not worth their time.
> 
> Now I actually don't think that this is that controversial as far as Hollywood Orchestrator is concerned. My impression is that just about everyone, including both those who are critical of what the software offers and those who are spending time defending it, are generally agreed that if you just take the presets and produce music that is too heavily based on those that it's not going to be very good or very well received.


Yes, a "gamer" audience can be quite diverse. My brother-in-law plays every JRPG that comes out on any platform. My neighbor pretty much only has an XBOX to play those Assassin's Creed games and sports stuff. My kid mostly just plays puzzle games like Candy Crush and Candy Crush rip-offs.

In fact, just this week I heard a song in one of the puzzle games that was clearly "inspired" by "Strobe" by deadmau5. I played the original for her and asked her to mute her iPad for a moment.

Her response? "Oh, that's neat!"


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Nuno said:


> I was checking the system requirments on EW page and noticed the recommended specs for the new Opus edition are much higher than the current specs for Hollywood Orchestra.
> 
> 
> *PC RECOMMENDED SYSTEM (Hollywood Orchestra)*
> 
> 
> Intel Core 2 Quad, or AMD Quad Core 2.66GHz or higher
> 16GB RAM or more
> 64-bit Windows/Host Sequencer
> Sound card with ASIO drivers
> SSD (Solid State Drive) for sample streaming
> 
> *RECOMMENDED SYSTEM (Opus Edition)*
> 
> 
> CPU: Octa-core (eight cores), running at 2.7 GHz (or above)
> RAM: 32 GB or more
> OS: macOS 10.13 (or later); Windows 10 with ASIO sound drivers
> Drive: NVMe SSD
> 
> Is this due only to the orchestrator engine alone?
> 
> I was thinking to jump on a year plan for Composer Cloud but fear my i7-9750H @ 2.60GHz (6 cores) might not be up to the task...


You’ll be fine if you go with CCX (Gold), but Ram will be the key with Diamond. How much Ram do you have?


----------



## Evans

Nuno said:


> I was checking the system requirments on EW page and noticed the recommended specs for the new Opus edition are much higher than the current specs for Hollywood Orchestra.
> 
> 
> *PC RECOMMENDED SYSTEM (Hollywood Orchestra)*
> 
> 
> Intel Core 2 Quad, or AMD Quad Core 2.66GHz or higher
> 16GB RAM or more
> 64-bit Windows/Host Sequencer
> Sound card with ASIO drivers
> SSD (Solid State Drive) for sample streaming
> 
> *RECOMMENDED SYSTEM (Opus Edition)*
> 
> 
> CPU: Octa-core (eight cores), running at 2.7 GHz (or above)
> RAM: 32 GB or more
> OS: macOS 10.13 (or later); Windows 10 with ASIO sound drivers
> Drive: NVMe SSD
> 
> Is this due only to the orchestrator engine alone?
> 
> I was thinking to jump on a year plan for Composer Cloud but fear my i7-9750H @ 2.60GHz (6 cores) might not be up to the task...


Yeah, that really is somethin'. Whether I picked this up now or in the future, I was intending to place it on a machine with a 6 core i7-8700 (and a lot of RAM). Hmm... it may be fine for now, but software bloat will cripple it.


----------



## Tremendouz

Flyo said:


> $500 HOD on sale


Where are you getting this? Wasn't the semi-regular sale price $370?

Edit: but your point still stands


----------



## Flyo

Tremendouz said:


> Where are you getting this? Wasn't the semi-regular sale price $370?
> 
> Edit: but your point still stands


Two years ago pay for HOD on sale for full $500.

On other topic I was wondering if the 130gb new material include resamples or fixes (if they need them) for old material.
Based on the their web FAQ 
It’s not necessary to redownload the old material. So how this will work? There are no fixes - re sampled material? Or they included on those 130gb?


----------



## Tremendouz

Flyo said:


> Two years ago pay for HOD on sale for full $500.
> 
> On other topic I was wondering if the 130gb new material include resamples or fixes (if they need them) for old material.
> Based on the their web FAQ
> It’s not necessary to redownload the old material. So how this will work? There are no fixes - re sampled material? Or they included on those 130gb?


There are new first violins, some new brass (trumpets a2 and trombones a2 if I'm not mistaken), a woodwind section(?)... The rest is old samples (old 1st violins won't go anywhere, they're still there)


----------



## Trax

Trash Panda said:


> is within $100 for what is largely a re-packaged $400-$500 library with a new GUI and arpeggiator.



But you're talking about just the samples. But if they reworked the samples that would've taken man hours. That aside, the pricing includes 

1. The Orchestrator
2. The bundled solos
3. New opus instruments and samples

So the price is fair for the above bundle. But I don't need 1 or 2, it's debatable that I even need 3. So it's a no for me. 

But the comparison you're making is not fair.


----------



## Evans

Trax said:


> 1. The Orchestrator
> 2. The bundled solos
> 3. New opus instruments and samples
> 
> So the price is fair for the above bundle. But I don't need 1 or 2, it's debatable that I even need 3. So it's a no for me.


And some people already have the solos.


----------



## cqd

Evans said:


> And some people already have the solos.


I do actually think they could have done another price for people who had the solos..

I have been so close to buying them so many times..got the harp in January..


----------



## Flyo

Tremendouz said:


> There are new first violins, some new brass (trumpets a2 and trombones a2 if I'm not mistaken), a woodwind section(?)... The rest is old samples (old 1st violins won't go anywhere, they're still there)


Yes know that.
But if there is no need to re download old material how they tune fix or upgrade old material samples?
Upgraded old material are on those 130gb?

Or the computer will read old material, and the fixes method from EW are based on volume balance starts / ends of individual samples.


----------



## Frederick

Trash Panda said:


> You’re missing the point.
> 
> HWOD on sale: $386-$499
> HWOD Opus Upgrade Intro Offer: $495
> Total cost: $881-$995 on sale
> 
> Opus Full Pre-Order Offer: $795
> 
> EW Marketing had been pushing the message to buy HWO on their big sale prices to get the best price on Opus when it comes out. Even with the deepest discounts they ran, it’s still nearly $100 more than a non-HWO owning customer would pay.
> 
> Your BBCSO Pro comparison doesn’t work either because the full Opus product after pre-order is within $100 for what is largely a re-packaged $400-$500 library with a new GUI and arpeggiator.


True enough.

Nevertheless, if you'd buy HOD first you'd get more content: New Opus content + reimagined old content + remainder of the old content (Play only) that you wouldn't get if you'd start with the Opus edition. So without buying HOD first, there's no way to get all the old content of HOD.


----------



## szczaw

Lazer42 said:


> I think people are looking at this sortof like, if you'll indulge the analogy, spice mixes that you buy in the grocery store where you're being given a sortof general flavor profile to start out with but most of what you cook with them is still going to be something that you yourself made. Beyond the spice mix, there are still plenty of other ingredients going in and all of the actual technique required to cook the meal that nobody is going to say, "nah, mom didn't really make that: she just copied McCormick!"
> 
> I don't think that that's what's going on _at all _with one of these preset libraries. To me, it's more like: imagine if the next release of Dorico started to include a large library of Lyrics Presets. Maybe some of them were written by Steinberg while others are verses copied from various famous songs, and all of them are there in Dorico for users to use in their songs. Or, what if the next release of Microsoft Word included preset phrases, some of which were taken from famous poems and novels, which users were free to use in their own works.
> 
> I would imagine most people would immediately see the problem with those scenarios, and I'd also imagine that the idea that some users might take them as starting points and modify them for their own work wouldn't be enough to justify it for most people. "Somewhere over the valley blackbirds sing." Totally original, right?
> 
> That's the issue with presets like this, at least if one is using them to actually produce music. If someone is just messing around with them, having fun, trying to learn, trying to draw inspiration, etc., then fine. When somebody starts taking something written by someone else - and it doesn't matter if that's a famous film composer or some uncredited person in a little EW cubicle somewhere - and using that as the basis for the own work - outside of very particular exceptions like the one that's already been raised of Williams trying to imitate a classical piece because the director wanted that exact sound - there's a problem with that.


There is no issue at all. Presets devoid of original musical ideas sitting on top, will sound boring. No one is going to appreciate that. Most of orchestral music is repetition of the same instrument combinations. What make something stand out is unique melody and harmony. Presets or not, you still have to come up with music.

The 'score' presets are nothing but a gimmick and advertising ploy, that allow EW to clam with Opus anybody you can make a Hollywood score in seconds. It's a one trick pony though. I was ridiculing it but, haha, I get it now. It's very clever.


----------



## Toecutter

davidson said:


> So we can assume silk etc are not getting the opus treatment, at least not in the foreseeable?
> 
> Edit: Oh wait, he says the redesigned all the old interfaces. Are they not the old interfaces shown in the video then? They're still using play right?


It's the other way around! The video shows the new interface BUT old keyswitches. I think they are focused on HO now and will improve the keyswitch of older libraries later. I don't think all libraries will receive the opus treatment but the biggest ones like in the video probably will. At least that's what I was told by support.


----------



## Toecutter

Jeremy Spencer said:


> You’ll be fine if you go with CCX (Gold), but Ram will be the key with Diamond. How much Ram do you have?


Does Diamond automatically load all microphones or Play allows us to disable the ones not in use like Kontakt?


----------



## Trax

cqd said:


> I do actually think they could have done another price for people who had the solos..
> 
> I have been so close to buying them so many times..got the harp in January..



I got the harp January too (seeing that it's now bundled, having slight buyers remorse). I don't like either the violin or the cello. If they ever unbundle Opus or reduce the price by $200, maybe then. But there are more pressing things I would like to get first.


----------



## Tremendouz

Flyo said:


> Yes know that.
> But if there is no need to re download old material how they tune fix or upgrade old material samples?
> Upgraded old material are on those 130gb?
> 
> Or the computer will read old material, and the fixes method from EW are based on volume balance starts / ends of individual samples.


You can improve a sampled instrument by simply programming it better while the sample content stays intact. Hence script-only updates won't require redownloading any samples.

I'm not sure if that's what they've done with the woodwinds but if you really don't need to redownload the old content, that would make sense


----------



## Toecutter

Geomir said:


> Technically you are not paying for any demo. You get full access to all of EWs libraries, the existing and the future ones. It's just that many people use it in a smart way to demo the libraries they are interested in.
> 
> And since EW doesn't allow reselling / license transfer, then the risk factor increases. So better to pay $29 to test all the libraries EW offer, than spending i.e. $400 and regret it.


Absolutely agree! $29 for a month's worth of dozens of libraries including the NEW Opus is better than nothing. I don't think the upgrade price for old customers is reasonable BUT this random whining about not having a demo is unfair to EW since they do provide an option to use their libraries for a whole month at a symbolic price. It's like people join forums to complain about the most stupid things "welcome to the internet"

EW still has server costs, energy costs, employees, support staff, etc those zeros and ones won't materialize in our hard drives like magic. Stop always expecting the cheapest alternative. If you want cheap download the Philharmonia orchestra or Discovery but don't come here complaining about "the lack of realism man"


----------



## Trash Panda

gst98 said:


> HOD has been a steal at a ridiculous price for the last few years. At least for now, the price is going up, but still remains highly competitive. Just because it was available for a low price doesn’t mean it always has to be


Missing the point again. Try focusing on the part about marketing messages versus upgrade pricing.


----------



## szczaw

HO is known to be difficult to use. Now updated HO is ... too easy to use ???  Damn you, EW.


----------



## Nuno

Jeremy Spencer said:


> You’ll be fine if you go with CCX (Gold), but Ram will be the key with Diamond. How much Ram do you have?


I was planning to subscribe the Plus plan for the diamond version.

I have 32GB Ram and ssd nvme m.2 drive. I guess its better to upgrade to 64GB to use the multi mics.


----------



## cqd

Toecutter said:


> Does Diamond automatically load all microphones or Play allows us to disable the ones not in use like Kontakt?


Only loads one per instrument..you can turn them on or off as you please then..

(In comparison to spitfire anyway it's a dream to use..)


----------



## Toecutter

cqd said:


> Only loads one per instrument..you can turn them on or off as you please then..
> 
> (In comparison to spitfire anyway it's a dream to use..)


So I can still use Diamond and have the low RAM as Gold if I want? That's sweet!


----------



## cqd

Toecutter said:


> So I can still use Diamond and have the low RAM as Gold if I want? That's sweet!


Yeah..my diamond template was coming in around 40 gigs maybe?.. that's with mics mixed to taste..so 2 for most instruments..


----------



## Tremendouz

Toecutter said:


> So I can still use Diamond and have the low RAM as Gold if I want? That's sweet!


Sadly not quite. Gold is 16bit samples, diamond 24bit.

How big difference does this make?


----------



## Flyo

Tremendouz said:


> You can improve a sampled instrument by simply programming it better while the sample content stays intact. Hence script-only updates won't require redownloading any samples.
> 
> I'm not sure if that's what they've done with the woodwinds but if you really don't need to redownload the old content, that would make sense


Exactly my tough too.

Im waiting to hear how they improve Woodwings section (No Ensambles)

Woods are the weakest point and Brass the strongest of all HOD I think.

Contrary from BBC Woods strongest and Brass the weakest (assuming if you need those screaming FF dynamic layers)

Already having HOD I have really good brass section.

So I really need a good Woodwings section.

Hope they upgraded woods enough to go for Opus when they offer a better approach upgrade path for previous costumers. I don’t really need their “must have composer tool” $300 orchestrator 😞


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Nuno said:


> I was planning to subscribe the Plus plan for the diamond version.
> 
> I have 32GB Ram and ssd nvme m.2 drive. I guess its better to upgrade to 64GB to use the multi mics.


Yes, definitely upgrade to 64 if you can. You'll also need 1TB for OPUS Diamond, it's a beast. I'm not sure if you need more than that for the installation, so a 2TB would be the way to go. I just use regular SSD's.

As others mentioned, resources aren't as demanding if you keep the loaded mic's to a minimum. I don't know if the 24bit samples themselves use more resources, but they definitely require extra drive space.


----------



## Drundfunk

We already devalued music up to a point where selling music isn't really lucrative anymore (spotify etc.). Now we devalue the craft itself even further. I think we have a bright future ahead of us! What is so great about orchestral music composition: There are not really shortcuts. If you want to get good results you need to put the hours into it and the vast majority of people would not put that amount of effort into something if they have no passion for it. Now do I think this particular orchestrator will replace any serious composer? No of course not, but it's showing you the direction this is heading. Now all we need is better developed ai, some minor advances in the orchestrator technology and an even more dumbed down society, where shortcuts and instant gratification replace the desire to actually understand what the ai is doing and we are good to go. Can't say I'm looking forward to that.


----------



## szczaw

Drundfunk said:


> We already devalued music up to a point where selling music isn't really lucrative anymore (spotify etc.). Now we devalue the craft itself even further. I think we have a bright future ahead of us! What is so great about orchestral music composition: There are not really shortcuts. If you want to get good results you need to put the hours into it and the vast majority of people would not put that amount of effort into something if they have no passion for it. Now do I think this particular orchestrator will replace any serious composer? No of course not, but it's showing you the direction this is heading. Now all we need is better developed ai, some minor advances in the orchestrator technology and an even more dumbed down society, where shortcuts and instant gratification replace the desire to actually understand what the ai is doing and we are good to go. Can't say I'm looking forward to that.


I'm looking forward to 'finish song' daw feature.


----------



## SlHarder

EW subscribers are tooling down the highway in a bus while quietly chatting, "wondering about that Opus, might check it out sometime".

Behind them is a minivan with EW owners, careening from ditch to ditch and into oncoming traffic.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Drundfunk said:


> If you want to get good results you need to put the hours into it and the vast majority of people would not put that amount of effort into something if they have no passion for it.


Depends which angle you're coming from. For a composer who has tight deadlines, and is composing for commercial media, these tools are wonderful IMO. These people, quite frankly, don't need to put hours of effort and passion into their tracks. For the other end of the spectrum, these tools could provide a spark of inspiration, offering some orchestration suggestions in a very musical way. I think the "basement studio warriors" will inevitably exploit the Orchestrator (for example), but will quickly fizzle out as you still need to actually compose a piece. This is merely a tool for laying down a foundation.


----------



## gzapper

Drundfunk said:


> We already devalued music up to a point where selling music isn't really lucrative anymore (spotify etc.). Now we devalue the craft itself even further. I think we have a bright future ahead of us! What is so great about orchestral music composition: There are not really shortcuts. If you want to get good results you need to put the hours into it and the vast majority of people would not put that amount of effort into something if they have no passion for it. Now do I think this particular orchestrator will replace any serious composer? No of course not, but it's showing you the direction this is heading. Now all we need is better developed ai, some minor advances in the orchestrator technology and an even more dumbed down society, where shortcuts and instant gratification replace the desire to actually understand what the ai is doing and we are good to go. Can't say I'm looking forward to that.


This is all entertaining on a board dedicated to replacing real instruments with samples.
Shouldn't the purists just use pencil and paper and real instruments?
No DAWs at all?

Where do you draw the line?
Quantization?
Samples of sections?
Copy and Paste?
Why not the same fuss for sample libraries that use phrases?
How about drum machine plugs and libraries?
How about Ableton with randomization?
You can already buy PD, AI created music cheaper.


----------



## cqd

I'm reminded of that goat herding joke..


----------



## chocobitz825

Drundfunk said:


> We already devalued music up to a point where selling music isn't really lucrative anymore (spotify etc.). Now we devalue the craft itself even further. I think we have a bright future ahead of us! What is so great about orchestral music composition: There are not really shortcuts. If you want to get good results you need to put the hours into it and the vast majority of people would not put that amount of effort into something if they have no passion for it. Now do I think this particular orchestrator will replace any serious composer? No of course not, but it's showing you the direction this is heading. Now all we need is better developed ai, some minor advances in the orchestrator technology and an even more dumbed down society, where shortcuts and instant gratification replace the desire to actually understand what the ai is doing and we are good to go. Can't say I'm looking forward to that.


Misconception is thinking that people actually cared about music at all. Other than us, people don’t care, and they pay for music what they feel it’s actually worth...most people only bought records tapes and CDs because that’s the medium from which they could consume the products of their favorite artists...the experience of that artist..not the music itself. Kids buying Elvis records bought them because that’s how they could show their admiration for Elvis.

nothing has changed fundamentally...our music has always been worth very little to the average people consuming it.


----------



## cqd

chocobitz825 said:


> nothing has changed fundamentally...our music has always been worth very little to the average people consuming it.


Ah, no, a lot has changed.. but there wasn't loads of people expecting to make a living playing music back in the day..


----------



## Eptesicus

Macrawn said:


> In terms of price I think $400 bucks is pretty darn reasonable for a complete orchestra. That's a better price than bbc core. I know that's an upgrade price but no other company out there would put something like that out for less than $400 bucks regardless of how many libraries you have from them. They call it a separate product and that's it. BBC core is more than that even on sale, but isn't this product more comparable to the pro version?
> 
> I know a lot of people are crying about the orchestrator, but even if they didn't make it, there is no way you would get the library for less than $400 bucks at release. I know people are thinking I'd rather scrap the orchestrator and get the library for like $300 bucks. Even if they never made the orchestrator I don't think you would see an upgrade price for less than $400 bucks regardless.
> 
> The orchestrator is that marketing piece that will attract more buyers and give them something that the rest of the big players don't have. I'm pretty sure it's why they had the delay and it's probably been a huge pain to make, and the cost of it honestly isn't really priced in. I imagine they debated a long time internally whether to price it separately in addition to the $400 bucks and easily could have, but keeping the whole thing as one cohesive unit was probably important.
> 
> Even $800 non upgrade price isn't exactly out of line considering most companies offer sections for like $300 plus each (usually more). That's at least $1200 bucks and usually sale price and you wait like 5 years to get the whole thing and you are still waiting to get woods. BBC Pro is $950 but on super sale maybe $600 a couple times a year? Maybe on black friday you get this $400 non upgrade price?
> 
> So if you don't use the orchestrator it's not like you are getting a bad deal. Even people who don't want to use it might find it useful for sketching here or there and they can wash their hands after using it.



What is $400?

Isnt it $495 (for the upgrade) or has it dropped since I last looked?

Also, the actual core of the library is still the same. Its Hollywood orchestra diamond with some new recordings and a new player. 

As has been said, obviously East West can do what they want, but almost every other major developer tends to offer new players/some new recordings for free to existing users. It makes them stand out, and not in a good way.


----------



## chocobitz825

cqd said:


> Ah, no, a lot has changed.. but there wasn't loads of people expecting to make a living playing music back in the day..


In the entire history of music when do you think people started buying music? How long ago was it when average people had access to world renowned music?

we’re just a part of a marketing machine. Other than the people who are music fanatics, the average person casually consumes it and doesn’t think it’s worth much unless a marketing machine promotes to them the high value of the artist/creation. Music isn’t better or worse or less impactful than before. The market just changed and people stopped needing to pay for music, and they don’t care about that change. Attached to that shift is also the new idea that with tools and no gatekeepers and an open market, now everyone feels like they can participate in the game...which is kinda cool, but still it’s a bit pointless when there’s no real value in the music.


----------



## gst98

Trash Panda said:


> Missing the point again. Try focusing on the part about marketing messages versus upgrade pricing.


Here are the emails I have. They are promoting the subscription service and to lock in 50% off, which will be the lowest way of getting OPUS. 

_*- or -*_


see our 60% off sale. ​
The 'upgrades' they are referring to are upgrading from tiers of composer cloud. They are very clearly separating the information that talks about CC and the perpetual license.

The third email doesn't even mention anything _other_ than a subscription. I interpret that as meaning half price off a subscription service will be cheaper than a full purchase, an upgrade, or a sub upgrade. Which is true.

If they _really_ meant that 60% off a perpetual license was the cheapest way, why didn't they say it? The only time it is mentioned is in clearly separate and dived part of the first two emails. If you have an email that says what you claim, please share.


----------



## cedricm

So, ComposerCloud X yearly, for $19.99/month (2 mics, 16 bit), or ComposerCloud Plus for 
$29.99/month (n mic pos, 24 bit) ?

Are people having used both, feel ComposerCloud X is enough?

Do people who hear your music instantly can tell you used the 16 bit samples or the 24 bit samples? The different mic positions?


----------



## cqd

chocobitz825 said:


> we’re just a part of a marketing machine. Other than the people who are music fanatics, the average person casually consumes it and doesn’t think it’s worth much unless a marketing machine promotes to them the high value of the artist/creation. Music isn’t better or worse or less impactful than before. The market just changed and people stopped needing to pay for music, and they don’t care about that change. Attached to that shift is also the new idea that with tools and no gatekeepers and an open market, now everyone feels like they can participate in the game...which is kinda cool, but still it’s a bit pointless when there’s no real value in the music.


Ah, for a while there I think music was a lot more important than it is today.. like, for a few decades there it kind of became a defining aspect of one's personality.. people's whole lives revolved around the music they were into..

That's gone..due to oversaturation and I think the aspiration to be a musician that a lot of people developed.. going forward I think it will become a lot more interactive..the relationship between the artist and the audience is changed.. where it was stadiums of people to bands it's now you and your SoundCloud account..

When I think of this I'm always reminded of Mr bean at the opening ceremony for the 2012 Olympics banging on a midi keyboard..


----------



## dzilizzi

All this arguing over using things like the orchestrator are kind of funny but annoying. I've bought so many of these composing aids that claim to write the whole piece for me. They don't. Sometimes they are more work than they are worth. Other times they get me started in a way that is good. I think this falls into the second category. It won't write music for you. You still need a melody. You still need to arrange it so it will flow together. You can't play the same arps through the whole piece and expect it to work. You have to mix it up. This still requires musical knowledge. All this does is make it easier to take the sound out of your head and put it into the DAW. This isn't AI. What this might do is lose some assistant their job. 

Oh wait, it doesn't make coffee and sweep the floors. The assistant is safe.


----------



## chocobitz825

cqd said:


> Ah, for a while there I think music was a lot more important than it is today.. like, for a few decades there it kind of became a defining aspect of one's personality.. people's whole lives revolved around the music they were into..
> 
> That's gone..due to oversaturation and I think the aspiration to be a musician that a lot of people developed.. going forward I think it will become a lot more interactive..the relationship between the artist and the audience is changed.. where it was stadiums of people to bands it's now you and your SoundCloud account..
> 
> When I think of this I'm always reminded of Mr bean at the opening ceremony for the 2012 Olympics banging on a midi keyboard..


You mean the days when your access to music and pop culture were carefully crafted? When the radio introduced the hit artists? When artists appears on tv for the first time and now fans could fall in love with their aesthetic? The days of music videos on mtv?

those things were huge because there was better control on how you could push your product to the masses. Now that people have tons of options and don’t need the validation of a magazine or media company to tell them what to like, people consume like casual participants will. They don’t need music to validate them. It was a gold rush back in the day and now that’s over.


----------



## cqd

Yeah..and that combined with the oversaturation means music isn't as important as it was..

What was the last album you listened to..The last great piece you saw on here..did you give it a second look?..


----------



## chocobitz825

cqd said:


> Yeah..and that combined with the oversaturation means music isn't as important as it was..
> 
> What was the last album you listened to..The last great piece you saw on here..did you give it a second look?..


Actually all this access to the worlds music has introduced me to minor artists I would have never been able to hear back in the day and I listen to their music far more than any of the high ranking stuff.


----------



## robgb

Geomir said:


> Technically you are not paying for any demo. You get full access to all of EWs libraries, the existing and the future ones. It's just that many people use it in a smart way to demo the libraries they are interested in.
> 
> And since EW doesn't allow reselling / license transfer, then the risk factor increases. So better to pay $29 to test all the libraries EW offer, than spending i.e. $400 and regret it.


Except I couldn't care less about having access to all of EWs libraries. I tried it a couple years ago and didn't think it was worth the fee. I'd just like to demo Opus. They can't use the excuse that Kontakt won't allow for time-limited demos. But apparently they aren't going to provide one anyway. So by getting a subscription, I would be having to pay for a demo.

It amazes me that people are so willing to give developers a pass for something that almost every plugin maker does—provide a demo. It's a simple thing.


----------



## Lazer42

gzapper said:


> This is all entertaining on a board dedicated to replacing real instruments with samples.
> Shouldn't the purists just use pencil and paper and real instruments?
> No DAWs at all?
> 
> Where do you draw the line?
> Quantization?
> Samples of sections?
> Copy and Paste?
> Why not the same fuss for sample libraries that use phrases?
> How about drum machine plugs and libraries?
> How about Ableton with randomization?
> You can already buy PD, AI created music cheaper.


The distinction seems to me to be pretty clearcut. Most of the things you mention are tools which allow a person to more easily express their musical ideas. In this regard, they're like a word processor or even, if you like, dictation software. The technology is helps to record the ideas and even to make sure they're put down in the correct way (spelling and grammar checks, for instance), but the ideas are still coming from the author. 

Hollywood Orchestrator seems to provide the same kind of help in some ways. Being able to write one key ostinato, for instance, and copy it over and over or transpose it into another key and so forth is sortof like copy and pasting a portion of a text that needs to be repeated. 

There's a key distinction, though, when we start looking at presets which provide pre-written rhythms or orchestrations for the user. These features are no longer a tool which helps a person to record their ideas more easily, but are rather now providing ideas for the user. That's a big difference. If it stops at inspiration, that's one thing, but if the ideas that come built into the software are just dropped into work the user is putting out, that's different altogether.


----------



## cqd

chocobitz825 said:


> Actually all this access to the worlds music has introduced me to minor artists I would have never been able to hear back in the day and I listen to their music far more than any of the high ranking stuff.


Yeah, but you're probably a product of the previous age too..


----------



## szczaw

Lazer42 said:


> There's a key distinction, though, when we start looking at presets which provide pre-written rhythms or orchestrations for the user. These features are no longer a tool which helps a person to record their ideas more easily, but are rather now providing ideas for the user. That's a big difference. If it stops at inspiration, that's one thing, but if the ideas that come built into the software are just dropped into work the user is putting out, that's different altogether.


That's only a problem if pre-written elements are all there is to it. If you on the other hand provide something stronger, and use presets only to complement, or just as a filler then I don't see the problem. That's what ostinatos and arpeggios generally are, fillers.


----------



## Trash Panda

gst98 said:


> Here are the emails I have. They are promoting the subscription service and to lock in 50% off, which will be the lowest way of getting OPUS.
> 
> _*- or -*_
> 
> 
> see our 60% off sale.​
> The 'upgrades' they are referring to are upgrading from tiers of composer cloud. They are very clearly separating the information that talks about CC and the perpetual license.
> 
> The third email doesn't even mention anything _other_ than a subscription. I interpret that as meaning half price off a subscription service will be cheaper than a full purchase, an upgrade, or a sub upgrade. Which is true.
> 
> If they _really_ meant that 60% off a perpetual license was the cheapest way, why didn't they say it? The only time it is mentioned is in clearly separate and dived part of the first two emails. If you have an email that says what you claim, please share.


It was on the website itself during the New Year’s sale as I recall. It was clearly referring to the perpetual license cost of HWOD. There are multiple conversations with EW support agents reinforcing (and contradicting) that message as well earlier in this thread.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cedricm said:


> Are people having used both, feel ComposerCloud X is enough?


I have used the Gold versions for years, and recently upgraded to Diamond because it was a great deal. The different mic’s can make a difference, but in reality, Gold is perfectly adequate. CCX also includes the close mic, so that’s an added bonus. I also have CCX, and will be using Opus Gold until (if) they offer a decent upgrade cost for old HO Diamond owners. CCX gives access to the entire EW collection, which is epic. 

I’m paying $15usd a month, but even $20 is a great price for CCX. Here in Alberta, a pack of cigarettes is $18 for Heaven’s sake.


----------



## SlHarder

cedricm said:


> Do people who hear your music instantly can tell you used the 16 bit samples or the 24 bit samples? The different mic positions?


Considering all the effects/processing and mixing/mastering I'd say 16 bit vs 24 bit is not a big factor to end result. I do find that close mic is nice addition on the cheaper subscription vs owning Gold. And 16bit uses lots less memory, ssd and cpu. I'd start cheap and only go Diamond if you really need it. Fwiw ...


----------



## Geomir

robgb said:


> Except I couldn't care less about having access to all of EWs libraries. I tried it a couple years ago and didn't think it was worth the fee. I'd just like to demo Opus. They can't use the excuse that Kontakt won't allow for time-limited demos. But apparently they aren't going to provide one anyway. So by getting a subscription, I would be having to pay for a demo.
> 
> It amazes me that people are so willing to give developers a pass for something that almost every plugin maker does—provide a demo. It's a simple thing.


It seems the only Opus you can demo for free (for 1 full month) is Steinberg Iconica Opus (which by the way you might really like, since there are several mics, including close / dry ones).  

For me it's a bigger PITA that you can't resell EW libraries. You bought it, you' re stuck with it for life.

Of course it would be unfair to pay for any demo, that's why EW never mentions i.e. something like "You can demo all our libraries for only $29". Yes, many people use it to demo products, since this $29 can save them from spending $500, it's not a bad idea.

But also you can write a song, sell it, make money from it, and then unsubscribe. After the song is bounced, you are not required to renew your subscription. It's stated clearly in their policies. So there are many ways to use this $29 to your advantage.


----------



## gst98

Trash Panda said:


> It was on the website itself during the New Year’s sale as I recall. It was clearly referring to the perpetual license cost of HWOD. There are multiple conversations with EW support agents reinforcing (and contradicting) that message as well earlier in this thread.


I don't remember that from the website, but it isn't on the actual marketing emails that were sent out. Info from the tech support is not reliable like you say, and some have been interpreting it weirdly and spreading it on this thread (like the stuff about whether the original samples were even included).


----------



## Lazer42

szczaw said:


> That's only a problem if pre-written elements are all there is to it. If you on the other hand provide something stronger, and use presets only to complement, or just as a filler then I don't see the problem. That's what ostinatos and arpeggios generally are, fillers.


I've tried to be pretty clear all along that I'm criticizing the value of _part_ of Orchestrator while acknowledging that people can do more with it if they want to. I agree with you on this: you can likely do much more with this than the presets. This is even, perhaps, part of why I dislike the inclusion of the presets so much: they sortof take top billing and draw attention away from the rest of the product which might be genuinely useful. 

That said, I don't agree that using the presets as filler or to complement your work is ok. I don't think taking something written by another person and incorporating it directly into your own work is ever okay, outside of very particular circumstances where it's acknowledged that you're doing this or where your point is to allude to something or where for some other reason your purpose is not just to write something unique and original.


----------



## Trax

robgb said:


> It amazes me that people are so willing to give developers a pass for something that almost every plugin maker does—provide a demo. It's a simple thing.


You can demo Cinematic Studio Strings?


----------



## Evans

Yeahhh... who _does_ provide such "limited time" demos? VSL, for sure, fairly regularly (plus the return policy). Performance Samples sometimes releases early alpha patches. 8dio has done "try packs" before.

Who else?


----------



## dcoscina

I'm honestly torn here... while I think the Orchestrator can be a terrific aid, I also think it represents a danger.... it can given someone a heightened sense of their abilities without having taken time to learn these concepts in formal avenues (ie, Adler's orchestration, or even some terrific online resources like Thomas Goss' Orchestration On Line). I know time is money and all that but I see this contributing to the perpetuation of a generic sound. And it takes away a lot of the fun of exploring different groupings of instruments and rhythmic figures... but if I solely relied on composing to pay the bills, I'd probably think differently about this. So this is only my perspective from someone not working day-in and day-out on media gigs.


----------



## Geomir

Evans said:


> Yeahhh... who _does_ provide such "limited time" demos? VSL, for sure, fairly regularly (plus the return policy). Performance Samples sometimes releases early alpha patches. 8dio has done "try packs" before.
> 
> Who else?


But if you think of it, VSL demos require a USB dongle, which costs almost as a CC monthly subscription. So they are not 100% free in the end (unless of course you already have a dongle).


----------



## Flyo

If they only will offer additional discount for users that already have Solo Instruments and 2 upgrade option for those who want to purchase or not the Orchestrator.


----------



## Evans

Geomir said:


> But if you think of it, VSL demos require a USB dongle, which costs almost as a CC monthly subscription. So they are not 100% free in the end (unless of course you already have a dongle).


That's fair, though I actually opened myself up to VSL purchases once I got my first dongle for Cubase.

Then, if you're not at risk of theft (and only concerned about breakage over a possibly very long period of time), the license replacement fee per license _*without*_ the protection plan is actually quite cheap. And, they're about to revisit policy for license as they move to iLok (details coming later this year).


----------



## AndyP

Are there any demos or walkthroughs of the solo cello and violin?
I didn't find the demos on soundsonline that impressive. I would like to hear them isolated.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

robgb said:


> It amazes me that people are so willing to give developers a pass for something that almost every plugin maker does—provide a demo. It's a simple thing.


Which developers offer a demo? VSL doesn't count, because they give you a refund if you're unhappy after 30 days, plus you need to shell out for the dongle if you don't have one.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

AndyP said:


> Are there any demos or walkthroughs of the solo cello and violin?
> I didn't find the demos on soundsonline that impressive. I would like to hear them isolated.


A bit older, but a good one. (The instruments are bad nontheless.)


----------



## Geomir

Evans said:


> That's fair, though I actually opened myself up to VSL purchases once I got my first dongle for Cubase.
> 
> Then, if you're not at risk of theft (and only concerned about breakage over a possibly very long period of time), the license replacement fee per license _*without*_ the protection plan is actually quite cheap. And, they're about to revisit policy for license as they move to iLok (details coming later this year).


I know! I can't wait for that!


----------



## Tremendouz

It's funny to see all the fearmongering (for lack of better word) about the Orchestrator. Sonuscore The Orchestra has been there for a few years yet composers aren't still out of jobs.

It's a great tool that has legit uses: sketching, sparking inspiration or adding an extra layer here and there for texture/movement. It won't compose a track for you. Just like an arpeggiator in a synthetizer won't do the same, and the Orchestrator is essentially a fancy multi-layer arpeggiator.


----------



## AndyP

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> A bit older, but a good one. (The instruments are bad nontheless.)



Thanks. Well ...


----------



## Trax

AndyP said:


> Thanks. Well ...


The sound of the EWHO Solo Violin is a delicacy.


----------



## dzilizzi

robgb said:


> Except I couldn't care less about having access to all of EWs libraries. I tried it a couple years ago and didn't think it was worth the fee. I'd just like to demo Opus. They can't use the excuse that Kontakt won't allow for time-limited demos. But apparently they aren't going to provide one anyway. So by getting a subscription, I would be having to pay for a demo.
> 
> It amazes me that people are so willing to give developers a pass for something that almost every plugin maker does—provide a demo. It's a simple thing.


Just thinking about this tires me out. 2 days to download it all, then install, try out, and delete. You would need a spare SSD just to have all the space needed. 

But I don't necessarily disagree.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Nuno said:


> I was checking the system requirments on EW page and noticed the recommended specs for the new Opus edition are much higher than the current specs for Hollywood Orchestra.
> 
> 
> *PC RECOMMENDED SYSTEM (Hollywood Orchestra)*
> 
> 
> Intel Core 2 Quad, or AMD Quad Core 2.66GHz or higher
> 16GB RAM or more
> 64-bit Windows/Host Sequencer
> Sound card with ASIO drivers
> SSD (Solid State Drive) for sample streaming
> 
> *RECOMMENDED SYSTEM (Opus Edition)*
> 
> 
> CPU: Octa-core (eight cores), running at 2.7 GHz (or above)
> RAM: 32 GB or more
> OS: macOS 10.13 (or later); Windows 10 with ASIO sound drivers
> Drive: NVMe SSD
> 
> Is this due only to the orchestrator engine alone?
> 
> I was thinking to jump on a year plan for Composer Cloud but fear my i7-9750H @ 2.60GHz (6 cores) might not be up to the task...


Ouch... only got a 4th Gen Quad-core, but meet recommended specs on the rest...looks like freezing will still be on the cards then.

*edit* actually I am using an SSD too - the NVME's are for other stuff 🙄


----------



## Lazer42

Geomir said:


> But if you think of it, VSL demos require a USB dongle, which costs almost as a CC monthly subscription. So they are not 100% free in the end (unless of course you already have a dongle).


For me the issue isn't even cost, just the nature of what a demo is supposed to be that's the problem. I don't have Cubase and I don't have any other VSL product and so I have no dongle. There have been plenty of times I have considered trying out a VSL product, but I never have because it would require my buying the dongle and waiting for it to arrive - but at least to me, there's at least some element of impulsivity when it comes to trying a demo, so I never order the dongle because by the time I'd get it I wouldn't be thinking of trying the product any longer.


----------



## Geomir

Lazer42 said:


> For me the issue isn't even cost, just the nature of what a demo is supposed to be that's the problem. I don't have Cubase and I don't have any other VSL product and so I have no dongle. There have been plenty of times I have considered trying out a VSL product, but I never have because it would require my buying the dongle and waiting for it to arrive - but at least to me, there's at least some element of impulsivity when it comes to trying a demo, so I never order the dongle because by the time I'd get it I wouldn't be thinking of trying the product any longer.


Couldn't agree more! When you are triggered to try something, you feel this excitement to listen to all the sounds and test them yourself, and then you realize that you must wait 1-2 weeks, this excitement goes away.

Plus if you don't like it in the end, then you have a useless dongle in your gadgets collection.

In that case paying $29 for a CC subscription makes more sense. Instant access is really important for something like that.


----------



## rnb_2

This caught my eye in a budget cinema production newsletter I'm subscribed to - there are already tools (I don't get the impression this is the first, just the latest) that completely replace a human composer and make Hollywood Orchestrator look pretty innocuous by comparison.

Dynascore Launched - AI Driven Music for Filmmakers


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

rnb_2 said:


> This caught my eye in a budget cinema production newsletter I'm subscribed to - there are already tools (I don't get the impression this is the first, just the latest) that completely replace a human composer and make Hollywood Orchestrator look pretty innocuous by comparison.
> 
> Dynascore Launched - AI Driven Music for Filmmakers


That thing is hilarious. The "music" that it came up with in the video presentation is just plain awful. But, I imagine there's some cheapskate "film producers" out there that will take the bait.


----------



## rnb_2

Jeremy Spencer said:


> That thing is hilarious. The "music" that it came up with in the video presentation is just plain awful. But, I imagine there's some cheapskate "film producers" out there that will take the bait.


I didn't even go to the site - it just caught my eye, given the conversations here.


----------



## chocobitz825

cqd said:


> Yeah, but you're probably a product of the previous age too..


lol only thing I got for being a product of the previous age is a solid case of bitterness that I missed the gold rush. We grew up dreaming of stadium shows and orchestrating big films and becoming legends. Turns out that instead we ended up in a generation where no one cares on the business side, nor consumer side. The trade off being that now we have more “content creators” and artists than people can handle is bittersweet but ultimately great IMO. 

Yeah orchestrator makes things easier for some people and makes the craft more accessible. Who cares? That means a whole lot of unknown aspiring composers can jump into the game, and maybe create your next favorite piece that they share on SoundCloud. Who cares if it’s not attached to a blockbuster film? It’s art, and everyone gets to participate now.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

chocobitz825 said:


> It’s art, and everyone gets to participate now.


Amen to this, and it will help make the world a better place. Successfully inspiring new artists in this world is like giving an angry Danny Trajo a nice Snickers Bar.


----------



## Mike Fox

dzilizzi said:


> All this arguing over using things like the orchestrator are kind of funny but annoying. I've bought so many of these composing aids that claim to write the whole piece for me. They don't. Sometimes they are more work than they are worth. Other times they get me started in a way that is good. I think this falls into the second category. It won't write music for you. You still need a melody. You still need to arrange it so it will flow together. You can't play the same arps through the whole piece and expect it to work. You have to mix it up. This still requires musical knowledge. All this does is make it easier to take the sound out of your head and put it into the DAW. This isn't AI. What this might do is lose some assistant their job.
> 
> Oh wait, it doesn't make coffee and sweep the floors. The assistant is safe.


That’s what’s perhaps the most condescending aspect of this new EW launch is.

“Compose a Blockbuster Soundtrack in Seconds”

I mean, c’mon. Do they really expect seasoned musicians do buy that load of crap? Of course not. Clearly, their marketing is aimed at noobs who don’t know any better and hope that they can have all the work done for them by holding down a single button. 

Good hell, I thought Spitfire were the kings of market hype, but this one really wins the gold!


----------



## chocobitz825

Mike Fox said:


> That’s what’s perhaps the most condescending aspect of this new EW launch.
> 
> “Compose a Blockbuster Soundtrack in Seconds”
> 
> I mean, c’mon. Do they really expect seasoned musicians do buy that load of crap? Of course not. Clearly they’re targeting is aimed at noobs who don’t know any better and hope that they can have all the work done for them by holding down a single button.
> 
> Good hell, I thought Spitfire were the kings of market hype, but this one really wins the gold!


kinda going over what's been said before, but a skilled composer who finds a way to work this tool into their set, and make it work in a way that is unique for their workflow and needs, could potentially "make a blockbuster soundtrack in seconds".


----------



## Mike Fox

chocobitz825 said:


> kinda going over what's been said before, but a skilled composer who finds a way to work this tool into their set, and make it work in a way that is unique for their workflow and needs, could potentially "make a blockbuster soundtrack in seconds".


But a skilled composer knows that ANY music tool can do that. They don’t need to be told that.

And I get the feeling that this kind of hyperbole isn’t aimed towards those kinds of skilled composers.

A statement like that is just buzzwords and a pretty phrase to attract people who don’t know any better.

Like I said, it’s condescending.


----------



## chocobitz825

Mike Fox said:


> But a skilled composer knows that ANY music tool can do that. They don’t need to be told that.
> 
> And I get the feeling that kind of hyperbole isn’t aimed towards those kinds of composers.


is there any particular harm in aiming a product at both sides of the yard? This kind of make-it-easy software tends to do this. Scaler 2, which many here have admitted to like using for their work, appeals to beginner with its "presets from world class artists", which im sure doesnt matter to the pros who use it, and didnt seem like a big enough deal to keep them from choosing that scaler was a tool they could, and would use. Call it hyperbolic if you want, but what does the marketing really matter if the product works?


----------



## Mike Fox

chocobitz825 said:


> Call it hyperbolic if you want, but what does the marketing really matter if the product works?


So you really believe that everyone who buys this software will be composing blockbuster soundtracks within seconds? Not just talented composers, but people who are brand new to the game as well?


----------



## szczaw

Mike Fox said:


> I mean, c’mon. Do they really expect seasoned musicians do buy that load of crap? Of course not. Clearly they’re targeting is aimed at noobs who don’t know any better and hope that they can have all the work done for them by holding down a single button.
> 
> Good hell, I thought Spitfire were the kings of market hype, but this one really wins the gold!


It's actually not a load of crap or marketing hype. They replicated some classic movie themes (I can't actually recognize anything but some people here can) with Opus arps. You can load one of 'score' presets, press a chord and get a 'blockbuster score' in seconds.


----------



## Mike Fox

szczaw said:


> It's actually not a load of crap or marketing hype. They replicated some classic movie themes (I can't actually recognize anything but some people here can) with Opus arps. You can load one of 'score' presets, press a chord and get a Hollywood 'score' in seconds.


Replicating classic movie scores is VERY different than composing blockbuster soundtracks.


----------



## szczaw

Mike Fox said:


> Replicating classic movie scores is VERY different than composing blockbuster soundtracks.


Ok that part is a marketing hype.


----------



## Trash Panda

Mike Fox said:


> Replicating classic movie scores is VERY different than composing blockbuster soundtracks.


I mean, technically if you put in different chords you created a new blockbuster sound track. Take Bb major the preset was built in and play it in D Phrygian. Boom! New blockbuster soundtrack in seconds. Scaler 2 will even play the chords for you!


----------



## szczaw

It's quite clever. You can't say it's false advertising. If they used the word 'score' instead of 'soundtrack', then there would really be nothing to complain about.


----------



## chocobitz825

Mike Fox said:


> So you really believe that everyone who buys this software will be composing blockbuster soundtracks within seconds? Not just talented composers, but people who are brand new to the game as well?


didn’t we just cover the tools topic? a talented person with the right connections and skills might...everyone? no of course not...nor does their marketing say “everyone who buys this will get their music placed in a blockbuster film!“ if the idea is, you can make a blockbuster style score in essence...in terms of its key elements, then that seems to be within the abilities of the software with its presets.

people taking these things too literally is why commercials used to have to always put the disclaimer ”results may vary“ in their ads.


----------



## Mike Fox

chocobitz825 said:


> people taking these things too literally is why commercials used to have to always put the disclaimer ”results may vary“ in their ads.


Bingo!


----------



## Mike Fox

Trash Panda said:


> I mean, technically if you put in different chords you created a new blockbuster sound track. Take Bb major the preset was built in and play it in D Phrygian. Boom! New blockbuster soundtrack in seconds. Scaler 2 will even play the chords for you!


Not quite. 

Technically, what you just did is mock-up a a piece of music that is highly reflective of a pre-existing blockbuster soundtrack.

And in fact, that’s really what EW describes this as: “You can instantly create music IN THE STYLE OF Hollywood’s greatest composers.”

And that’s a VERY different statement than, “Compose a Blockbuster Soundtrack in Seconds.”

I can guarantee that most people (and when I say most, I mean 99.9%) who buy this thing won’t be composing blockbuster soundtracks in seconds. They’ll be making music that sounds like pre-existing blockbuster soundtracks.

...technically.


----------



## cqd

All I know is I'm going to have made an amazing album echoing the giants of film music by Friday..


----------



## Trash Panda

Mike Fox said:


> Not quite.
> 
> Technically, what you just did is mock-up a a piece of music that is highly reflective of a pre-existing blockbuster soundtrack.
> 
> And in fact, that’s really what EW describes this as: “You can instantly create music IN THE STYLE OF Hollywood’s greatest composers.”
> 
> And that’s a VERY different statement than, “Compose a Blockbuster Soundtrack in Seconds.”
> 
> I can guarantee that most people (and when I say most, I mean 99.9%) who buy this thing won’t be composing blockbuster soundtracks in seconds. They’ll be making music that sounds like pre-existing blockbuster soundtracks.
> 
> ...technically.











Umm Wait GIF - Umm Wait Nathan Fillion - Discover & Share GIFs


Click to view the GIF




tenor.com


----------



## MauroPantin

rnb_2 said:


> This caught my eye in a budget cinema production newsletter I'm subscribed to - there are already tools (I don't get the impression this is the first, just the latest) that completely replace a human composer and make Hollywood Orchestrator look pretty innocuous by comparison.
> 
> Dynascore Launched - AI Driven Music for Filmmakers


Hey! Thanks for sharing that. This peeked my interest and I had a look around.

First thing, unrelated but I have to say it. They have a sort of apple inspired keynote that reminded me of those Silicon Valley TV show keynote speeches that always end with something like "and through machine learning algorithms and deep neural networks that dynamically generate film scores we're making the world a better place". It looks like it is recorded in an empty room. Also, weirdly, I started to skip around and Rivers Cuomo made an appearance at the end of the vid, wtf.

Anyway, there is a demo on their site that claims to adapt music to match a sync point. It kind of is, but it is also severely altering the tempo. It's a bit laughable to hear the "William Tell" overture at about 80% the of the usual speed and then the sync point hits and the tempo just lifts off like the freaking space shuttle, lol!

I don't mean to bash, though. It is super impressive that they got it to the point that it is. It does imitate a couple of styles pretty well, and I understand the problem it is trying to solve. But I don't think anybody's gig is in jeopardy anytime soon.


----------



## cqd

Did any of ye hear the AI Amy Whitehouse tune?..

Scary..


----------



## MauroPantin

cqd said:


> Did any of ye hear the AI Amy Whitehouse tune?..
> 
> Scary..


Saw that as well. But there was human intervention on those.

_The programme studies the music, learning its compositions, and then translates them through a synthesiser to generate a new string of hooks, melodies, and rhythms. Following this process, an audio engineer took the AI-generated elements and composed the Lost Tapes of the 27 Club._

So someone was there picking and choosing from a sample pool of ideas the AI spit out. 

There's actually 4 tracks on the album, from different styles of iconic rock idols.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Why are so many comments about "gigs being at risk"? If you are a composer who's function can be completely replaced by AI technology, well maybe you deserve to be replaced? And if you're worried about too much competition from new composers that technology enables, maybe you should've become an astronaut instead. Technology and more competition threatens maybe the bottom 25-40% of talent pools. Don't be in the bottom. Be better than average. It takes hard work. I bet Desplat is not sitting around worrying about AI or whatever replacing him.

And your knowledge does not = success. It can help to achieve success, but certainly doesn't guarantee it. No point in being upset that somebody can be successful without the same sweat equity you put in. Some people are just inherently better or luckier or whatever. Somebody is likely going to come along with a lot less knowledge and use something like the Orchestrator to create something that is ultimately successful - and in the end, that end product, that's really all that matters to the client / audience.


----------



## MauroPantin

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Why are so many comments about "gigs being at risk"?


I think the general consensus is that they are not. Or at least that's my take. It's one thing to produce music that can be functional for an ad. I just don't see any of these tools evoking the frisson you get when you listen to the crescendo from The Planet Krypton or the final chorus for Circle of Life. Truly great music that moves people is the result of something else entirely. 

EDIT: I'm referring to the AI tools on that paragraph, not the orchestrator, BTW



ALittleNightMusic said:


> And your knowledge does not = success.


It does not guarantee success, but having none of it can almost be a guarantee of failure. Failure as in, knowing so little that you can be replaced by an AI.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

MauroPantin said:


> I think the general consensus is that they are not. Or at least that's my take. It's one thing to produce music that can be functional for an ad. I just don't see any of these tools evoking the frisson you get when you listen to the crescendo from The Planet Krypton or the final chorus for Circle of Life. Truly great music that moves people is the result of something else entirely.


Right - and the tool is not going to do that for you, but somebody can use the tool to reach that vision. It just seemed that a lot of people are "sad" or "scared" even of the trajectory of music creation and that it may put jobs at risk.



MauroPantin said:


> It does not guarantee success, but having none of it can almost be a guarantee of failure. Failure as in, knowing so little that you can be replaced by an AI.


Well it depends on the knowledge. If you know nothing, sure. But there's some assumptions in this thread around what is the "right" knowledge that is needed. And history is littered with people that didn't have that and were more successful than most.


----------



## chocobitz825

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Well it depends on the knowledge. If you know nothing, sure. But there's some assumptions in this thread around what is the "right" knowledge that is needed. And history is littered with people that didn't have that and were more successful than most.


more importantly, history is littered with people who had the "right" knowledge that never found much success..


----------



## cqd

chocobitz825 said:


> more importantly, history is littered with people who had the "right" knowledge that never found much success..


I feel personally attacked by this post..


----------



## MauroPantin

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Well it depends on the knowledge. If you know nothing, sure. But there's some assumptions in this thread around what is the "right" knowledge that is needed. And history is littered with people that didn't have that and were more successful than most.


If you don't mind me asking, what is your definition for "success"? For me personally, I make a living from music, so as far as I'm concerned I'm already living the dream. I still want to grow as a musician and artist, write better music for my clients and for myself, and I want to be able to write it faster. That requires study and practice.

Why is anecdotal cases of people who did great for themselves just playing it by ear being presented as an argument against learning about our craft? If you want to make a living from music that's perfectly reachable. This forum is filled with examples. You just need a predisposition for creative tasks, an education (formal or otherwise), and then you need to network, have some people skills and consistency. Pretty much like any other job. 

The kind of success that is not guaranteed and incredibly elusive is something like winning awards or getting tons of money and/or recognition or critical acclaim. And for that definition I totally agree, that's in the cards for anyone, regardless of knowledge of the craft, you just need to be lucky. But my point is that there's no need to bet on that if you just make diligent work to become proficient.


----------



## chocobitz825

cqd said:


> I feel personally attacked by this post..


opus guarantees it can make you feel better


----------



## Daniel James

Walkthrough actually looked cool. Nice work lads.

-DJ


----------



## bvaughn0402

Daniel James said:


> Walkthrough actually looked cool. Nice work lads.
> 
> -DJ


Agreed. I’m in ...


----------



## Lazer42

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Why are so many comments about "gigs being at risk"? If you are a composer who's function can be completely replaced by AI technology, well maybe you deserve to be replaced? And if you're worried about too much competition from new composers that technology enables, maybe you should've become an astronaut instead. Technology and more competition threatens maybe the bottom 25-40% of talent pools. Don't be in the bottom. Be better than average. It takes hard work. I bet Desplat is not sitting around worrying about AI or whatever replacing him.
> 
> And your knowledge does not = success. It can help to achieve success, but certainly doesn't guarantee it. No point in being upset that somebody can be successful without the same sweat equity you put in. Some people are just inherently better or luckier or whatever. Somebody is likely going to come along with a lot less knowledge and use something like the Orchestrator to create something that is ultimately successful - and in the end, that end product, that's really all that matters to the client / audience.


I really just strongly disagree with so much of what you're saying here, but to focus on one thing: it's simply not the case that in order to have a problem with what this kind of software offers one has to be worried about losing gigs to it. I'm certainly not.

I think a lot of people are just unhappy about what they think this will mean for the overall quality of the industry. To give a rough analogy, lots of people (myself included) become unhappy with different rule changes which are proposed for professional sports leagues. This doesn't affect these people or cost them anything - we're not professional athletes, after all! - but rather they're often concerned because they think that the rule change will hurt the quality of the games they will be watching. 

In a similar way, I have to be pretty honest here: I haven't seen many people on this thread saying they think they will lose jobs to this. Maybe one or two have. The vast majority of those who aren't too fond of the idea of the product, though, are a lot more worried about what it will mean for the overall quality of what the industry produces. I'm certainly not concerned about losing work to this, but I am concerned that as this kind of technology becomes more commonplace I'll wind up having to listen to a lot more mediocre music in film and television, and I am worried that there will be fewer great and iconic scores written to enjoy as a result of this kind of technology. As you say, the top composers will still do their thing and we'll still get stuff from them, but might we miss _something_? If this technology had been around 30 years ago, might Ron Howard have wound up choosing a lesser composer than Horner for Apollo 13, for instance? That person may have put together something that worked or even something enjoyable, but at the expense of the great Horner score that would never have been written. 

I think the other thing that's being missed here - and this is a very, very important part of the discussion - is that it's a human nature that we are always very capable of accepting instant gratification that is of a lesser quality even when we know we're missing out on something better. For example, lots of people eat McDonald's food a lot - and I'm no exception! - all while believing it's low quality food. We know we could get something better, but we still choose the McDonald's because it's easy and it satisfies us in a certain kind of base way even as we acknowledge that, well, it's just McDonald's. We'll eat McDonald's even when we know it will leave us disappointed later and wishing we'd had something else. 

For this reason, I think it's clear that audience/client approbation isn't in itself a great scale of the quality or the "goodness" of art - or even of what is really making the audience happy. We already see this very clearly in the film industry. People readily go out and spend their money to see movies that they know are just "junk popcorn films," for lack of a better term. They fully acknowledge that what they're watching isn't great art, and - this is the critical point - even that if they were a little more discerning they'd probably enjoy what they're watching more! 

Now from the financial standpoint? Yes, these things are clearly successful, so why not do it? And even from the sort of "Rotten Tomatometer" aspect of things these things are definitely successful in the sense that people do genuinely enjoy them. That is definitely a positive point and I DON'T intend to diminish it. What I'm trying to do is make sure we're thinking about the other side of things, too: that the general public even when they go to see their superhero popcorn movies and genuinely enjoy them still _themselves _believe that, hey, we're watching the "McDonald's" of cinema here and we'd probably be better off and even like it better if we held out for better quality films.

To put it differently, the same people who flock to see the summer popcorn flicks also don't want to see those movies win Oscars or Golden Globes. 

All in all, then, my point is that I think that in many ways you're right that this kind of software tool probably can satisfy a lot of clients and audiences, and from a certain standpoint it's true that that's what matters, but that at the same time we need to make sure we don't forget that even in doing so, those same people still recognize the difference between what a lesser composer with these tools can produce and what a master of the art can. 

I think the final question is one that's less about whether you want bare subsistence from this product - yes, it will probably pay some bills! - and more a matter of what one wants to be. Does one want to be McDonald's, or does one want to be something more? - and in a certain sense, that's very personal question.


----------



## chocobitz825

Lazer42 said:


> I really just strongly disagree with so much of what you're saying here, but to focus on one thing: it's simply not the case that in order to have a problem with what this kind of software offers one has to be worried about losing gigs to it. I'm certainly not.
> 
> I think a lot of people are just unhappy about what they think this will mean for the overall quality of the industry. To give a rough analogy, lots of people (myself included) become unhappy with different rule changes which are proposed for professional sports leagues. This doesn't affect these people or cost them anything - we're not professional athletes, after all! - but rather they're often concerned because they think that the rule change will hurt the quality of the games they will be watching.
> 
> In a similar way, I have to be pretty honest here: I haven't seen many people on this thread saying they think they will lose jobs to this. Maybe one or two have. The vast majority of those who aren't too fond of the idea of the product, though, are a lot more worried about what it will mean for the overall quality of what the industry produces. I'm certainly not concerned about losing work to this, but I am concerned that as this kind of technology becomes more commonplace I'll wind up having to listen to a lot more mediocre music in film and television, and I am worried that there will be fewer great and iconic scores written to enjoy as a result of this kind of technology. As you say, the top composers will still do their thing and we'll still get stuff from them, but might we miss _something_? If this technology had been around 30 years ago, might Ron Howard have wound up choosing a lesser composer than Horner for Apollo 13, for instance? That person may have put together something that worked or even something enjoyable, but at the expense of the great Horner score that would never have been written.
> 
> I think the other thing that's being missed here - and this is a very, very important part of the discussion - is that it's a human nature that we are always very capable of accepting instant gratification that is of a lesser quality even when we know we're missing out on something better. For example, lots of people eat McDonald's food a lot - and I'm no exception! - all while believing it's low quality food. We know we could get something better, but we still choose the McDonald's because it's easy and it satisfies us in a certain kind of base way even as we acknowledge that, well, it's just McDonald's. We'll eat McDonald's even when we know it will leave us disappointed later and wishing we'd had something else.
> 
> For this reason, I think it's clear that audience/client approbation isn't in itself a great scale of the quality or the "goodness" of art - or even of what is really making the audience happy. We already see this very clearly in the film industry. People readily go out and spend their money to see movies that they know are just "junk popcorn films," for lack of a better term. They fully acknowledge that what they're watching isn't great art, and - this is the critical point - even that if they were a little more discerning they'd probably enjoy what they're watching more!
> 
> Now from the financial standpoint? Yes, these things are clearly successful, so why not do it? And even from the sort of "Rotten Tomatometer" aspect of things these things are definitely successful in the sense that people do genuinely enjoy them. That is definitely a positive point and I DON'T intend to diminish it. What I'm trying to do is make sure we're thinking about the other side of things, too: that the general public even when they go to see their superhero popcorn movies and genuinely enjoy them still _themselves _believe that, hey, we're watching the "McDonald's" of cinema here and we'd probably be better off and even like it better if we held out for better quality films.
> 
> To put it differently, the same people who flock to see the summer popcorn flicks also don't want to see those movies win Oscars or Golden Globes.
> 
> All in all, then, my point is that I think that in many ways you're right that this kind of software tool probably can satisfy a lot of clients and audiences, and from a certain standpoint it's true that that's what matters, but that at the same time we need to make sure we don't forget that even in doing so, those same people still recognize the difference between what a lesser composer with these tools can produce and what a master of the art can.
> 
> I think the final question is one that's less about whether you want bare subsistence from this product - yes, it will probably pay some bills! - and more a matter of what one wants to be. Does one want to be McDonald's, or does one want to be something more? - and in a certain sense, that's very personal question.


Doesn’t the existence of this forum contribute to the “lesser quality” debate? Our often common conclusion is that VI’s can’t beat the real deal...yet here we are, 217 pages in.

quality is subjective and art doesn’t need to be great to be enjoyed. This conversation about the line that is too far is so incredibly pointless, if not hypocritical, on a forum dedicated to people fully indulging in the lesser quality alternative of VIs. If great music can still be made with VI’s and great music can still be made with tools like orchestrator, what’s really being lost here?


----------



## Pappaus

I don’t do this fo a living so perhaps I shouldn’t comment, but it’s kind of ironic that we are talking about the danger of composing software putting jobs at risk on a forum devoted to virtual instruments we eagerly have bought that have undoubtedly put musicians jobs at risk.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

MauroPantin said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what is your definition for "success"? For me personally, I make a living from music, so as far as I'm concerned I'm already living the dream. I still want to grow as a musician and artist, write better music for my clients and for myself, and I want to be able to write it faster. That requires study and practice.
> 
> Why is anecdotal cases of people who did great for themselves just playing it by ear being presented as an argument against learning about our craft? If you want to make a living from music that's perfectly reachable. This forum is filled with examples. You just need a predisposition for creative tasks, an education (formal or otherwise), and then you need to network, have some people skills and consistency. Pretty much like any other job.
> 
> The kind of success that is not guaranteed and incredibly elusive is something like winning awards or getting tons of money and/or recognition or critical acclaim. And for that definition I totally agree, that's in the cards for anyone, regardless of knowledge of the craft, you just need to be lucky. But my point is that there's no need to bet on that if you just make diligent work to become proficient.


Success is ultimately defined by the person, so you are successful by your definition and that's great! There are societal definitions of success, whether it is determined financially or by popularity or by awards. Whether that success matters or not is totally a personal choice. However, it also comes down to ambition - and there's certainly no right or wrong amount of ambition - but some people strive to be better in many aspects, including writing "better" music but also in terms of those societal definitions. And it doesn't have to be one or the other. There are many high "performers" that are able to achieve both.


----------



## chocobitz825

Pappaus said:


> I don’t do this fo a living so perhaps I shouldn’t comment, but it’s kind of ironic that we are talking about the danger of composing software putting jobs at risk on a forum devoted to virtual instruments we eagerly have bought that have undoubtedly put musicians jobs at risk.


This.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lazer42 said:


> I really just strongly disagree with so much of what you're saying here, but to focus on one thing: it's simply not the case that in order to have a problem with what this kind of software offers one has to be worried about losing gigs to it. I'm certainly not.
> 
> I think a lot of people are just unhappy about what they think this will mean for the overall quality of the industry. To give a rough analogy, lots of people (myself included) become unhappy with different rule changes which are proposed for professional sports leagues. This doesn't affect these people or cost them anything - we're not professional athletes, after all! - but rather they're often concerned because they think that the rule change will hurt the quality of the games they will be watching.
> 
> In a similar way, I have to be pretty honest here: I haven't seen many people on this thread saying they think they will lose jobs to this. Maybe one or two have. The vast majority of those who aren't too fond of the idea of the product, though, are a lot more worried about what it will mean for the overall quality of what the industry produces. I'm certainly not concerned about losing work to this, but I am concerned that as this kind of technology becomes more commonplace I'll wind up having to listen to a lot more mediocre music in film and television, and I am worried that there will be fewer great and iconic scores written to enjoy as a result of this kind of technology. As you say, the top composers will still do their thing and we'll still get stuff from them, but might we miss _something_? If this technology had been around 30 years ago, might Ron Howard have wound up choosing a lesser composer than Horner for Apollo 13, for instance? That person may have put together something that worked or even something enjoyable, but at the expense of the great Horner score that would never have been written.
> 
> I think the other thing that's being missed here - and this is a very, very important part of the discussion - is that it's a human nature that we are always very capable of accepting instant gratification that is of a lesser quality even when we know we're missing out on something better. For example, lots of people eat McDonald's food a lot - and I'm no exception! - all while believing it's low quality food. We know we could get something better, but we still choose the McDonald's because it's easy and it satisfies us in a certain kind of base way even as we acknowledge that, well, it's just McDonald's. We'll eat McDonald's even when we know it will leave us disappointed later and wishing we'd had something else.
> 
> For this reason, I think it's clear that audience/client approbation isn't in itself a great scale of the quality or the "goodness" of art - or even of what is really making the audience happy. We already see this very clearly in the film industry. People readily go out and spend their money to see movies that they know are just "junk popcorn films," for lack of a better term. They fully acknowledge that what they're watching isn't great art, and - this is the critical point - even that if they were a little more discerning they'd probably enjoy what they're watching more!
> 
> Now from the financial standpoint? Yes, these things are clearly successful, so why not do it? And even from the sort of "Rotten Tomatometer" aspect of things these things are definitely successful in the sense that people do genuinely enjoy them. That is definitely a positive point and I DON'T intend to diminish it. What I'm trying to do is make sure we're thinking about the other side of things, too: that the general public even when they go to see their superhero popcorn movies and genuinely enjoy them still _themselves _believe that, hey, we're watching the "McDonald's" of cinema here and we'd probably be better off and even like it better if we held out for better quality films.
> 
> To put it differently, the same people who flock to see the summer popcorn flicks also don't want to see those movies win Oscars or Golden Globes.
> 
> All in all, then, my point is that I think that in many ways you're right that this kind of software tool probably can satisfy a lot of clients and audiences, and from a certain standpoint it's true that that's what matters, but that at the same time we need to make sure we don't forget that even in doing so, those same people still recognize the difference between what a lesser composer with these tools can produce and what a master of the art can.
> 
> I think the final question is one that's less about whether you want bare subsistence from this product - yes, it will probably pay some bills! - and more a matter of what one wants to be. Does one want to be McDonald's, or does one want to be something more? - and in a certain sense, that's very personal question.


Honestly, you have such a myopic and narrow-minded viewpoint in my opinion. It's completely rooted in this conservatism philosophy of "things were great in the old days". Firstly, to somehow consider any group or generation of people as arbiters of "quality" across a large, diverse population is absolutely ludicrous. To say that because there are sports fans who disagree with rule changes, it implies a degrading quality in sports is totally wrong. Maybe in their minds, but there will be MORE people that believe the quality is fine or improves and is more fun to watch. If that wasn't the case, there would be a feedback loop to the rule makers that they chose incorrectly. And the same will apply to directors, producers, and audiences. To think otherwise is to basically say you're smarter than everybody else, who are all too stupid to tell the difference.

Similarly, who are you to say what is a "junk popcorn film" and what is "great art"? Or that the general viewing public views it as "McDonalds". Or that there is even a difference between the two? Ultimately what is "great art" anyway? This is such a case of false intellectualism / elitism that always misses the forest for the trees. 99% of the art we have ever had in history would never exist if the world was truly governed by this mindset because it is always blind to what drives progress.

You are focused on the most basic output of a single tool while disregarding how tools have ended up being used in the past. Once again, the inventor of the hammer did not envision what Michaelangelo did with it. The inventor of the synthesizer did not envision what Daft Punk did with it. And similarly, the inventor of a pattern playback system will not be able to imagine what somebody with a lot of talent can do with it that is outside of the norms and that will ultimately move the art form forward.


----------



## chocobitz825

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Honestly, you have such a myopic and narrow-minded viewpoint in my opinion. It's completely rooted in this conservatism philosophy of "things were great in the old days". Firstly, to somehow consider any group or generation of people as arbiters of "quality" across a large, diverse population is absolutely ludicrous. To say that because there are sports fans who disagree with rule changes, it implies a degrading quality in sports is totally wrong. Maybe in their minds, but there will be MORE people that believe the quality is fine or improves and is more fun to watch. If that wasn't the case, there would be a feedback loop to the rule makers that they chose incorrectly. And the same will apply to directors, producers, and audiences. To think otherwise is to basically say you're smarter than everybody else, who are all too stupid to tell the difference.
> 
> Similarly, who are you to say what is a "junk popcorn film" and what is "great art"? Or that the general viewing public views it as "McDonalds". Or that there is even a difference between the two? Ultimately what is "great art" anyway? This is such a case of false intellectualism / elitism that always misses the forest for the trees. 99% of the art we have ever had in history would never exist if the world was truly governed by this mindset because it is always blind to what drives progress.
> 
> You are focused on the most basic output of a single tool while disregarding how tools have ended up being used in the past. Once again, the inventor of the hammer did not envision what Michaelangelo did with it. The inventor of the synthesizer did not envision what Daft Punk did with it. And similarly, the inventor of a pattern playback system will not be able to imagine what somebody with a lot of talent can do with it that is outside of the norms and that will ultimately move the art form forward.


This too!


----------



## Eric G

Lazer42 said:


> I think the other thing that's being missed here - and this is a very, very important part of the discussion - is that it's a human nature that we are always very capable of accepting instant gratification that is of a lesser quality even when we know we're missing out on something better. For example, lots of people eat McDonald's food a lot - and I'm no exception! - all while believing it's low quality food. We know we could get something better, but we still choose the McDonald's because it's easy and it satisfies us in a certain kind of base way even as we acknowledge that, well, it's just McDonald's. We'll eat McDonald's even when we know it will leave us disappointed later and wishing we'd had something else.
> 
> For this reason, I think it's clear that audience/client approbation isn't in itself a great scale of the quality or the "goodness" of art - or even of what is really making the audience happy. We already see this very clearly in the film industry. People readily go out and spend their money to see movies that they know are just "junk popcorn films," for lack of a better term. They fully acknowledge that what they're watching isn't great art, and - this is the critical point - even that if they were a little more discerning they'd probably enjoy what they're watching more!


Oh boy, what a bad, outdated hot take. You lost me with the superhero and summer blockbuster expectations is that it is lower quality films part. 

Last time I checked you don't have Master Chefs flipping burgers at McDonalds. John Williams, Alan Silvestri, Hans Zimmer, Gerry Goldsmith, James Horner...some of the most beloved scores ever created were in summer blockbusters and Superhero movies. The millions spent on high-quality SFX is a baseline expectation. The Summer moves have to be a Filet cooked to precise specifications by today's moviegoers. If not it bombs at the box office and is considered a failure.

And are you serious? A heck of a lot of people wanted to see Avengers Endgame get a nomination just Google it. And demanded that Black Panther get one. And it did in multiple categories. Update your thought process and your references you haven't been paying attention.


----------



## chocobitz825

Eric G said:


> Oh boy, what a bad, outdated hot take. You lost me with the superhero and summer blockbuster expectations is that it is lower quality films part.
> 
> Last time I checked you don't have Master Chefs flipping burgers at McDonalds. John Williams, Alan Silvestri, Hans Zimmer, Gerry Goldsmith, James Horner...some of the most beloved scores ever created were in summer blockbusters and Superhero movies. The millions spent on high-quality SFX is a baseline expectation. The Summer moves have to be a Filet cooked to precise specifications by today's moviegoers. If not it bombs at the box office and is considered a failure.
> 
> And are you serious? A heck of a lot of people wanted to see Avengers Endgame get a nomination just Google it. And demanded that Black Panther get one. And it did in multiple categories. Update your thought process and your references you haven't been paying attention.


Always wondered how people could shit on superhero movies these days given how many talented actors, crew and composers work on them now....


----------



## cqd

I often wonder why full grown adults watch superhero movies Tbh..


----------



## Trax

cqd said:


> I often wonder why full grown adults watch superhero movies Tbh..


Now I feel personally attacked.


----------



## chocobitz825

cqd said:


> I often wonder why full grown adults watch superhero movies Tbh..


I know right? Such shite...the superman score is for kids! The music for Batman were practically lullabies for babies. Nothing but actors for second rate kids shows in those movies....

just ridiculous..like Star Wars and Indiana Jones, lord of the rings and all the other science fiction properties out there. Fantasy is for babies!


----------



## Lazer42

chocobitz825 said:


> Doesn’t the existence of this forum contribute to the “lesser quality” debate? Our often common conclusion is that VI’s can’t beat the real deal...yet here we are, 217 pages in.
> 
> quality is subjective and art doesn’t need to be great to be enjoyed. This conversation about the line that is too far is so incredibly pointless, if not hypocritical, on a forum dedicated to people fully indulging in the lesser quality alternative of VIs. If great music can still be made with VI’s and great music can still be made with tools like orchestrator, what’s really being lost here?


To me the difference is very clear and these two things are not remotely close. The weakness of VIs is a matter of _performance_, whereas the weakness of people writing music using canned stuff as a starting point is a matter of _composition. _A Beethoven symphony is a great work whether it's played by the world's best professional orchestra or a mediocre high school orchestra. A discount furniture store jingle is (at least usually) a lousy piece of music and getting Yo-Yo Ma to perform it isn't going to change that. 

VIs are a tool for getting one's music performed inexpensively. The question with them is always going to be what the quality of that performance is, but that's not much different from that Beethoven Symphony being performed by a great vs. a mediocre orchestra. What they don't impact, in most cases, is the music itself as a composition. Orchestrator, or at least parts of it (to reiterate for the 1000th time I'm not criticizing the entire product), seems to open up the possibility of seeing a lot of music produced which is low quality in terms of _the notes on the page... _the pieces _as compositions... _the _musical ideas_. 

To put it one way, my concern is that this could lead to a lot of music being produced which is of a compositional quality such that even with the London Symphony Orchestra performing it, it would still be poor. Now a huge caveat to this point: if we're talking about beginners trying to learn more about music and explore it and producing lower quality music, that's _completely fine - _even _good!_ They'll be learning and getting the chance to make music in a way they never could before and that could lead to their starting down a great path and that's wonderful. I'm talking here about people producing low quality stuff professionally.


----------



## CoffeeLover

cqd said:


> I often wonder why full grown adults watch superhero movies Tbh..


I often wonder why full grown adults play keyboards or guitar Tbh..


----------



## Lazer42

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Honestly, you have such a myopic and narrow-minded viewpoint in my opinion. It's completely rooted in this conservatism philosophy of "things were great in the old days". Firstly, to somehow consider any group or generation of people as arbiters of "quality" across a large, diverse population is absolutely ludicrous. To say that because there are sports fans who disagree with rule changes, it implies a degrading quality in sports is totally wrong. Maybe in their minds, but there will be MORE people that believe the quality is fine or improves and is more fun to watch. If that wasn't the case, there would be a feedback loop to the rule makers that they chose incorrectly. And the same will apply to directors, producers, and audiences. To think otherwise is to basically say you're smarter than everybody else, who are all too stupid to tell the difference.
> 
> Similarly, who are you to say what is a "junk popcorn film" and what is "great art"? Or that the general viewing public views it as "McDonalds". Or that there is even a difference between the two? Ultimately what is "great art" anyway? This is such a case of false intellectualism / elitism that always misses the forest for the trees. 99% of the art we have ever had in history would never exist if the world was truly governed by this mindset because it is always blind to what drives progress.
> 
> You are focused on the most basic output of a single tool while disregarding how tools have ended up being used in the past. Once again, the inventor of the hammer did not envision what Michaelangelo did with it. The inventor of the synthesizer did not envision what Daft Punk did with it. And similarly, the inventor of a pattern playback system will not be able to imagine what somebody with a lot of talent can do with it that is outside of the norms and that will ultimately move the art form forward.


I never said that people disliking rule changes in sports meant that those rule changes were objectively bad. What I said is that people don't have to be professional athletes who are worried about the impact of rule changes on them personally in order to object to rule changes. My point is that in the same way, a person doesn't need to personally fear losing work to object to some aspects of this product - they can simply be concerned that it will lead to a less enjoyable listening experience for them - and note that for the purposes of this point, I'm not even saying those people have to be right about that: I'm just talking about people's motivations. I was just trying to respond to your repeated straw man that people who are offering critical thoughts here are only worried about their own work.

As for the rest of the comment, it's essentially just asking "who am I to judge what is good art and what is not," to which I would say, "I'm nobody to do so" - and I'm _not_ doing so. I'm _not _saying, "in _my opinion _these superhero films are junk popcorn films." That's not what I'm saying _at all. _What I _am _saying is that from what I have seen and read the impression I have is that _the majority of people out there who like these films regard them in this way_. 

No, I'm not trying to offer my opinion at all, in fact that's entirely the opposite of my goal and contrary to the whole idea of the argument I'm making. My entire argument is that _regardless of what I think_ lots of people out there in the general population seem to believe two things at once: 

1) I enjoy these films or I enjoy McDonald's or I enjoy whatever.
2) I think these films or McDonald's or whatever are of generally lower artistic value.

I do the same thing all the time. I go to Walmart and see their chocolate chip cookies and know I can make much, much better ones, but I buy them anyways and I eat them and I enjoy them! - all while also thinking, "these are really not that great and I could have had much better ones if I'd just waited." 

My point is that this is how human beings act all the time about all sorts of things. If you don't like my superhero film analogy then fine, throw it out and think of something you think is a better example - but you definitely _can _think of an example because that sort of instant gratification, I'm-going-to-enjoy-something-I-actually-think-isn't-good mindset is one we all practice all the time.


----------



## Lazer42

Eric G said:


> Oh boy, what a bad, outdated hot take. You lost me with the superhero and summer blockbuster expectations is that it is lower quality films part.
> 
> Last time I checked you don't have Master Chefs flipping burgers at McDonalds. John Williams, Alan Silvestri, Hans Zimmer, Gerry Goldsmith, James Horner...some of the most beloved scores ever created were in summer blockbusters and Superhero movies. The millions spent on high-quality SFX is a baseline expectation. The Summer moves have to be a Filet cooked to precise specifications by today's moviegoers. If not it bombs at the box office and is considered a failure.
> 
> And are you serious? A heck of a lot of people wanted to see Avengers Endgame get a nomination just Google it. And demanded that Black Panther get one. And it did in multiple categories. Update your thought process and your references you haven't been paying attention.


Is it your claim that any film which was scored by one of those composers is a great film? That there was never a lousy film that one of them scored?


----------



## chocobitz825

Lazer42 said:


> To me the difference is very clear and these two things are not remotely close. The weakness of VIs is a matter of _performance_, whereas the weakness of people writing music using canned stuff as a starting point is a matter of _composition. _A Beethoven symphony is a great work whether it's played by the world's best professional orchestra or a mediocre high school orchestra. A discount furniture store jingle is (at least usually) a lousy piece of music and getting Yo-Yo Ma to perform it isn't going to change that.
> 
> VIs are a tool for getting one's music performed inexpensively. The question with them is always going to be what the quality of that performance is, but that's not much different from that Beethoven Symphony being performed by a great vs. a mediocre orchestra. What they don't impact, in most cases, is the music itself as a composition. Orchestrator, or at least parts of it (to reiterate for the 1000th time I'm not criticizing the entire product), seems to open up the possibility of seeing a lot of music produced which is low quality in terms of _the notes on the page... _the pieces _as compositions... _the _musical ideas_.
> 
> To put it one way, my concern is that this could lead to a lot of music being produced which is of a compositional quality such that even with the London Symphony Orchestra performing it, it would still be poor. Now a huge caveat to this point: if we're talking about beginners trying to learn more about music and explore it and producing lower quality music, that's _completely fine - _even _good!_ They'll be learning and getting the chance to make music in a way they never could before and that could lead to their starting down a great path and that's wonderful. I'm talking here about people producing low quality stuff professionally.


So we agree they are both tools. both are tools that, when used by people with bad compositional ideas, result in bad compositions...in the same way someone buying an epic virtual library might think that just tossing loud noises on top of each other equates to a great score, someone with that sense might also use orchestrator and think that by just throwing in some arpeggios that they’ve made a great score. there is no difference in the flawed compositional mistakes the person will make regardless of which tool they use.

related back to the quality debate and what people consume...if we really thought there was no difference, we wouldn’t be sitting here waiting for proof that all the articulations and expressiveness work for our needs..because even if its a good composition, if the library can’t express the emotion we intend, and our composition is released as is, with only VI’s, the audience is experiencing a lesser performance than could be done with a real orchestra. Even if the composition is solid, if its played poorly, that does impact the experience.

still, at the end of the day, i dont think it matters. Would I want a picasso, or an admittedly shitty stick figure drawing of my family from my daughter? would i rather go to a 5-star restaurant, or have my grandmother’s cooking one more time? we can bitch and moan about quality and standards but for anyone who is not involved in music on a totally intellectual level, nothing matters more than the experience and the emotional attachment to that experience. maybe someone will make some questionable compositions with orchestrator, but since that doesn't change the compositions ability to move people, there is no harm here.


----------



## chocobitz825

Lazer42 said:


> Is it your claim that any film which was scored by one of those composers is a great film? That there was never a lousy film that one of them scored?


of any genre there are shitty films worked on by great people...but if someone saw a terrible film and enjoyed it because the score spoke to them...or the visual effects inspired them...or the single performance of one actor moved them....isn’t that reason enough to validate their experience? bad movies aren’t junk food. theyre flawed...which means they are lessons in storytelling and production..and at the very least, they might actually have something good to say, despite the mess. how are viewing audiences worse off for enjoying that?

im always reminded of the movie Click with Adam Sandler as a pretty shitty movie, that had a lot of heart. I hated the humor, but the story of a man missing out on life because of a dumb desire to fast forward through the mundane, was a heart warming story.


----------



## gamma-ut

Lazer42 said:


> Is it your claim that any film which was scored by one of those composers is a great film? That there was never a lousy film that one of them scored?


What point are you trying to make here? 

I think you've got a bit lost. Because if your point is "great movie composers should not lower themselves to mass-market blockbusters and be great-movie composers not great movie composers" I'm afraid you've rather undercut your point about requiring "quality music" in media to begin with.


----------



## NYC Composer

CoffeeLover said:


> I often wonder why full grown adults play keyboards or guitar Tbh..


I don't know any full grown adults. I DO know some old people.


----------



## jcrosby

cqd said:


> I often wonder why full grown adults watch superhero movies Tbh..


DUH:


----------



## Michael Antrum

CoffeeLover said:


> I often wonder why full grown adults play keyboards or guitar Tbh..


I can't believe you don't know why - the answer is Girls (or also boys).


----------



## Michael Antrum

I had a terrific week last week - done some pretty good deals so I thought - screw it - you've worked hard enough so why not. My wife has managed to get a shopping trip in so why not ?.

I'm not normally one for pre-orders, but I'll be off to West Africa at the end of next month and I'll be stuck in hotels for a bit....

It's cost about £ 360 in the UK, so compare that with your typical OT/Spitfire library, and unlike many here, I seriously don't feel the cost is OTT at all. Probably because HOD has been so stupidly cheap for many years that the product has devalued itself. It looks like a lot of work has gone into this.

The Orchestrator looks interesting. No-one has seriously mentioned it as a learning tool however. I can score study the hell out of the classics, but movie scores, with the notable exceptions of Omni & Chris Siddall, are difficult to get your hands on.

I love how some people are getting upset with the fact that the marketing is making wild exaggerations. Like that never happened before......

I am old enough to remember the Desktop Publishing revolution. Before programs such as Jetsetter, Quark et al, it was the preserve of the well tooled up studios and companies. When DTP became affordable, it democratised the industry to some extent. Initially this was far from a good thing. The standard of design skills on display were simply atrocious. Just because your software allows you to wrap text around a globe, doesn't mean you should. But in the end it all shook itself out.

I suspect the Orchestrator will be the same, and in no time it's presets will stick out like a sore thumb. You can't automate good taste and judgement. I think it will be a blast to play with, but I won't be putting down my (these days, Apple) pencil anytime soon. Hell, you never know, I might even learn something. (In fact the chances that I will, I think, are rather high). Inspiration can be found everywhere....

I think some of us are rather getting tied up in knots about this release. East West have never had good comms, always had a less than stellar track record with upgrade pricing, and have been known to be late (or even never) on occasion. It's just the way it is, and at the beginning of this thread a lot of people pointed this out, and people were advised not to upgrade before OPUS were released. Ah well, first world problems....

I think they well sell bucketloads of subs and perpetual licences, and I hope they do. Few sample libraries have withstood the test of time like HOD. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on it.

I never understood the popularity of libraries like the Spitfire Evos and Drama Toolkits. It was kind of a 'press a few keys and you've got a soundtrack' approach. I know that's not exactly accurate, but neither is writing the orchestrator off in the same way.

Anyway, it's a lovely sunny day, and there are a pair of Labradors giving me the big eyes treatment, so a nice long walk on the beach looks on the cards......


----------



## gst98

Michael Antrum said:


> I had a terrific week last week - done some pretty good deals so I thought - screw it - you've worked hard enough so why not. My wife has managed to get a shopping trip in so why not ?.
> 
> I'm not normally one for pre-orders, but I'll be off to West Africa at the end of next month and I'll be stuck in hotels for a bit....
> 
> It's cost about £ 360 in the UK, so compare that with your typical OT/Spitfire library, and unlike many here, I seriously don't feel the cost is OTT at all. Probably because HOD has been so stupidly cheap for many years that the product has devalued itself. It looks like a lot of work has gone into this.
> 
> The Orchestrator looks interesting. No-one has seriously mentioned it as a learning tool however. I can score study the hell out of the classics, but movie scores, with the notable exceptions of Omni & Chris Siddall, are difficult to get your hands on.
> 
> I love how some people are getting upset with the fact that the marketing is making wild exaggerations. Like that never happened before......
> 
> I am old enough to remember the Desktop Publishing revolution. Before programs such as Jetsetter, Quark et al, it was the preserve of the well tooled up studios and companies. When DTP became affordable, it democratised the industry to some extent. Initially this was far from a good thing. The standard of design skills on display were simply atrocious. Just because your software allows you to wrap text around a globe, doesn't mean you should. But in the end it all shook itself out.
> 
> I suspect the Orchestrator will be the same, and in no time it's presets will stick out like a sore thumb. You can't automate good taste and judgement. I think it will be a blast to play with, but I won't be putting down my (these days, Apple) pencil anytime soon. Hell, you never know, I might even learn something. (In fact that chances that I will, I think, are rather high). Inspiration can be found everywhere....
> 
> I think some of us are rather getting tied up in knots about this release. East West have never had good comms, always had a less than stellar track record with upgrade pricing, and have been known to be late (or even never) on occasion. It's just the way it is, and at the beginning of this thread a lot of people pointed this out, and people were advised not to upgrade before OPUS were released. Ah well, first world problems....
> 
> I think they well sell bucketloads of subs and perpetual licences, and I hope they do. Few sample libraries have withstood the test of time like HOD. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on it.
> 
> I never understood the popularity of libraries like the Spitfire Evos and Drama Toolkits. It was kind of a 'press a few keys and you've got a soundtrack' approach. I know that's not exactly accurate, but neither is writing the orchestrator off in the same way.
> 
> Anyway, it's a lovely sunny day, and there are a pair of Labradors giving me the big eyes treatment, so a nice long walk on the beach looks on the cards......


There is another $100 in tax for the UK though. Still not overpriced though. Think how much Masse costs or the extra mics for SSO. Or how much OT charge for the upgrade if you want both Kontakt and SINE versions to cover data costs. and this is a full TB of data. If they have continued the depth of sampling from the original content, then the few new sections probably come close to the sample count of the whole of BBCSO.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I'm (or rather my company is) VAT registered....... This can be both a blessing and a curse, however......


----------



## Thorgod10

Heavy agree.
To put it short, these presets....they sound _too good.
The technology _is amazing no doubt....but just imagine a future where your clients literally KNOW you are using HOOPUS presets to "write" your ques?
How do you mask it?
Is masking it ethical?
When does it become "your own."
I too, despite wanting it, feel irked by the Orchestrator's technological allure.....


----------



## Quantum Leap

It seems like technological/software advances threaten the very existence of the human race. It’s a scary time. I’m being serious. Obviously this software is a very mild example of this that is unlikely to kill you. But, no one of us can do anything about it.. once the cat is out of the bag. We are all racing to our doom. Make sure you score it well.


----------



## szczaw

Thorgod10 said:


> How do you mask it?


----------



## Michael Antrum

Quantum Leap said:


> It seems like technological/software advances threaten the very existence of the human race. It’s a scary time. I’m being serious. Obviously this software is a very mild example of this that is unlikely to kill you. But, no one of us can do anything about it.. once the cat is out of the bag. We are all racing to our doom. Make sure you score it well.


Well, at least well all taking our journey to hell listening to some banging ostinatos !


----------



## tmhuud

Quantum Leap said:


> We are all racing to our doom. Make sure you score it well.



I’m thinking about making that my quote in my sig. 🤔


----------



## Pappaus

Quantum Leap said:


> It seems like technological/software advances threaten the very existence of the human race. It’s a scary time. I’m being serious. Obviously this software is a very mild example of this that is unlikely to kill you. But, no one of us can do anything about it.. once the cat is out of the bag. We are all racing to our doom. Make sure you score it well.


Exactly - When I watch the terminator films (I am a grown man who enjoys watching superhero films) My thought process is that the war with the machines IS happening and they don’t win by killing us with force (That would make us try to unplug them). They win from the inside by taking our jobs and purpose and taking us away from each other. Who hasn’t had an evening where everyone is sitting around looking at their phone or other device. They win by convenience. (This makes us buy more machines and more power strips) 
Being an old dude, I can remember typing pools before word processors, bands before DJs, and DJs before automated radio stations and playlists.

Of course I am writing this on an iPad with my computer nearby. Waiting to serve my robot masters.


----------



## chocobitz825

Pappaus said:


> Exactly - When I watch the terminator films (I am a grown man who enjoys watching superhero films) My thought process is that the war with the machines IS happening and they don’t win by killing us with force (That would make us try to unplug them). They win from the inside by taking our jobs and purpose and taking us away from each other. Who hasn’t had an evening where everyone is sitting around looking at their phone or other device. They win by convenience. (This makes us buy more machines and more power strips)
> Being an old dude, I can remember typing pools before word processors, bands before DJs, and DJs before automated radio stations and playlists.
> 
> Of course I am writing this on an iPad with my computer nearby. Waiting to serve my robot masters.


It’s not the machines fault they’ll be better at being people than us...if our originality and experience are so easily replaced by code and algorithms, it only shows how little value we have in our view of our lives. All of this issue is resolved by sticking to the thing only you can do. If we’re worried about being replaced it’s because our existence is so vanilla that literally anyone, or even a computer could do it. I believe we have more value than that.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau




----------



## chocobitz825

Emmanuel Rousseau said:


>


maybe opus can score my demise....


----------



## Markrs

I have heard that this "Spinning Jenny" will be the end of us.... (for those who know a bit of the history of the industrial revolution)


----------



## Michael Antrum

Lovely girl, haven’t seen her in ages. Very popular too.....


----------



## Guffy

Michael Antrum said:


> Lovely girl, haven’t seen her in ages. Very popular too.....


How dare you?


----------



## Eric G

Lazer42 said:


> Is it your claim that any film which was scored by one of those composers is a great film? That there was never a lousy film that one of them scored?


No, I am saying the expectation these days is that summer blockbusters have high-quality talent working on it so the consumer does not expect a low-quality experience. In fact, it's just the opposite. That was your argument.


----------



## AndyP

I am still missing the walkthrough to the features in OPUS and the new patches. The orchestrator is nice, but not what interests me the most.
There are still 3 days left before the pre-sale ends.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Akarin said:


> Actually, the music of Half-Life 3 is planned to be written with OPUS.


And Half-Life 2.5 is being written with Forbidden Planet!


----------



## dzilizzi

cqd said:


> I often wonder why full grown adults watch superhero movies Tbh..


Because Robert Downy Jr is nice to look at and he makes me laugh. What can I say? I like comedic action movies with a splash of romance. I don't watch movies to get depressed. 

Plus, it is the one thing my husband and I both will watch.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

WOW, 219 pages guys... let's keep it going!

I cannot believe we all mustered the free time to post here this much (of course reflecting on my own personal time here)


----------



## Toecutter

About that walkthrough... 3 days to go


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Well well, perhaps the walkthrough is taking place now 

Over at soundsonline...


----------



## odod

Ronny D. Ana said:


> No...it is simply too high (imho)


indeed, even the upgrade for SPACE II is an insult for SPACE I owner ..


----------



## Toecutter

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Well well, perhaps the walkthrough is taking place now
> 
> Over at soundsonline...


----------



## VSriHarsha

dzilizzi said:


> Because Robert Downy Jr is nice to look at and he makes me laugh. What can I say? I like comedic action movies with a splash of romance. I don't watch movies to get depressed.
> 
> Plus, it is the one thing my husband and I both will watch.


Well, I love Super Hero movies a lot. The Genre is like one of the landmarks of the Hollywood & Chris Nolan gets the major credit, followed by Tim Burton, the Russo Brothers & Sam Raimi as well, in redefining the genre.

I don’t normally cry watching movies but the last scene in The End Game, where Tony Stark dies, yes, well, I tried stopping my tears coz you know we’ve all grown watching him, creating the never-seen impact on screen, for such a Super Hero ( Well, BatMan’s different, though) & I must say the Russo Brothers have done extremely brilliant job coz handling the end is NOT AT ALL easy. Well, not even simple.

Not all Super Hero movies are like this & this IS unique. This even reminds me of the statement made by Marty. Marty IS a great Director & he IS one of my most fav Directors but what I still can’t believe is he just threw his words “Theme Park movies “ without real perfect strong reason. Disney on the other hand tried giving Wanda Vision the ending Marty might like & Disney didn’t have to but I think the blame is irreversible & Marty may think of doing one for Disney, in future & I am pretty sure he can nail it. Although not for Disney, he fid

Lol! This has gone too damn far.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> WOW, 219 pages guys... let's keep it going!
> 
> I cannot believe we all mustered the free time to post here this much (of course reflecting on my own personal time here)


Well, when you take a musician's predilection for procrastination, then throw in a lockdown for good measure, I'm frankly surprised it isn't longer.

(Having said that, I only read the beginning bit and the end bit.)


----------



## Lazer42

Eric G said:


> No, I am saying the expectation these days is that summer blockbusters have high-quality talent working on it so the consumer does not expect a low-quality experience. In fact, it's just the opposite. That was your argument.


I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying when I talk about "low quality."

Think about it like this: you can get a piece of chocolate cake from the grocery store bakery for $1.99, or you can get one made by a 5 star Michelin chef for $50. That $50 world class chocolate cake is going to be a great piece of cake! - but it's still a piece of chocolate cake, not "real food." It's junk food - great, world class junk food! ...but junk food nonetheless. You know it's junk food when you eat it. You know it's not a real meal. Sometimes, you'll actually eat it in place of lunch or dinner (or breakfast ) but when you do so you know that you're just going to be hungry again in an hour and that you're not really nourishing your body with what it needs.

That doesn't mean the cake is bad. It's good! You enjoy it! But it's cake, and you know it's cake and not a meal. 

This is what I'm talking about. I enjoy plenty of "summer popcorn films," for lack of a better term. I also enjoy plenty of "low quality," cookie cutter music - both orchestral stuff in the cinema and pop music on the radio... but I do so recognizing that I'm not exactly listening to Beethoven or the Beatles. Some people call this sort of thing a "guilty pleasure." I'm not a fan of the term, but you get the idea. 

Actually, the Beatles might just be a good analogy here. I think what I'm saying is that this kind of technology has the potential to lead to a lot of "The Monkees" saturating the industry. Now the Monkees were briefly successful and I myself enjoyed them, but I have a hard time imagining there's anyone who doesn't regard them as of a distinctly secondary, derivative, for lack of a better catch-all term "lower quality" than the Beatles.

But there's nothing wrong with the Monkees or chocolate cake, and people genuinely enjoy those things and I don't intend to take anything away from any of that. My point is simply that if we make it easier to eat chocolate cake for dinner, human nature is that people will indulge in that a lot more and so wind up eating regular meals less often. 

So Superhero films? I enjoy them - and yes, when top people are working on them they're going to be of good quality. But I also think they're going to _in general - _not always! just in general - be more like chocolate cake than like a meal.


----------



## gzapper

Lazer42 said:


> I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying when I talk about "low quality."
> 
> Think about it like this: you can get a piece of chocolate cake from the grocery store bakery for $1.99, or you can get one made by a 5 star Michelin chef for $50. That $50 world class chocolate cake is going to be a great piece of cake! - but it's still a piece of chocolate cake, not "real food." It's junk food - great, world class junk food! ...but junk food nonetheless. You know it's junk food when you eat it. You know it's not a real meal. Sometimes, you'll actually eat it in place of lunch or dinner (or breakfast ) but when you do so you know that you're just going to be hungry again in an hour and that you're not really nourishing your body with what it needs.
> 
> That doesn't mean the cake is bad. It's good! You enjoy it! But it's cake, and you know it's cake and not a meal.
> 
> This is what I'm talking about. I enjoy plenty of "summer popcorn films," for lack of a better term. I also enjoy plenty of "low quality," cookie cutter music - both orchestral stuff in the cinema and pop music on the radio... but I do so recognizing that I'm not exactly listening to Beethoven or the Beatles. Some people call this sort of thing a "guilty pleasure." I'm not a fan of the term, but you get the idea.
> 
> Actually, the Beatles might just be a good analogy here. I think what I'm saying is that this kind of technology has the potential to lead to a lot of "The Monkees" saturating the industry. Now the Monkees were briefly successful and I myself enjoyed them, but I have a hard time imagining there's anyone who doesn't regard them as of a distinctly secondary, derivative, for lack of a better catch-all term "lower quality" than the Beatles.
> 
> But there's nothing wrong with the Monkees or chocolate cake, and people genuinely enjoy those things and I don't intend to take anything away from any of that. My point is simply that if we make it easier to eat chocolate cake for dinner, human nature is that people will indulge in that a lot more and so wind up eating regular meals less often.
> 
> So Superhero films? I enjoy them - and yes, when top people are working on them they're going to be of good quality. But I also think they're going to _in general - _not always! just in general - be more like chocolate cake than like a meal.


Odd, I thought that was going to turn into a concert music vs film music post.
But maybe all music is chocolate cake.

Now available for the low, low price of 495.

Ok, sarcasm aside. I probably only do a show or two a year that would justify HOOPUS so now I'm thinking maybe I just get the cloud subscription for a month and then cancel it after the show. 
In which case EW will end up making less money off of me.


----------



## VSriHarsha

dzilizzi said:


> I don't watch movies to get depressed.


That’s nice & truly a healthy way of making movies a part of life. I love watching movies coz I love the way you see these images, moving on the celluloid & it’s truly a beautiful innovation. I adore the term “Direction” & I go mostly by the Directors. And of course the Score, which elevates the “done” movie. I can’t stop appreciating the “CINEMA”.
You know, listening to the score while watching IS way more different than just listening to it.


----------



## JonSolo

I would love to see a little more on some of the new presets.

Honestly, the sound of HOD is incredible (and I have many OT, SF, etc options as well) but I always found the presets confusing. While sounding great it was just unfriendly (and I find many EWQL libraries to be similar...it doesn't fit my workflow).

But I need to see more before the 20th and before dropping $500 (which I have no problem doing if this will help my workflow in using what I think is one the best sounding orchestral libraries...woodwinds aside, heh).

Wait...did I just personally attack myself?


----------



## muziksculp

They plan to release it on Tuesday, April 20th, and no walkthrough videos yet ? Especially for those that are thinking of Pre-Ordering it. Hopefully they will post the videos before Tuesday.


----------



## Trax

muziksculp said:


> They plan to release it on Tuesday, April 20th, and no walkthrough videos yet ? Especially for those that are thinking of Pre-Ordering it. Hopefully they will post the videos before Tuesday.



Will Monday 2 hours before Tuesday work for you?


----------



## VSriHarsha

Eric G said:


> Last time I checked you don't have Master Chefs flipping burgers at McDonalds. John Williams, Alan Silvestri, Hans Zimmer, Gerry Goldsmith, James Horner...some of the most beloved scores ever created were in summer blockbusters and Superhero movies.


Well, a few of them. Movies like Schindler’s list, Saving Private Ryan or Frost/Nixon, The Last Samurai & The Russia House or Chinatown are not, right?

I think Guardians of the Galaxy wasn’t composed by any of them. Well, Jerry passed away like long time ago & James Horner a few years back. But they’re pretty great at their work.


----------



## muziksculp

Trax said:


> Will Monday 2 hours before Tuesday work for you?


Sunday would be better


----------



## cqd

There's surely another video today..


----------



## zolhof

VI-Control be like:


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> There's surely another video today..


----------



## Drumdude2112

Sorry if this has been asked (but this is a Looooong thread to dig through lol) 
I heard you HAD to sign up for a full year of composer cloud to have access to Opus come tuesday...(meaning you cant sign up for the monthly and cancel it ) Any truth to this ? (cause that seems redic to me )


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Drumdude2112 said:


> Sorry if this has been asked (but this is a Looooong thread to dig through lol)
> I heard you HAD to sign up for a full year of composer cloud to have access to Opus come tuesday...(meaning you cant sign up for the monthly and cancel it ) Any truth to this ? (cause that seems redic to me )


Why couldn’t you? It just a CC subscription.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

JonSolo said:


> But I need to see more before the 20th and before dropping $500 (


This!!!!! I spent my $500 on the Cinesamples bundle. Anyone who shells out for this without FULL walkthroughs is nuts.


----------



## Drumdude2112

Jeremy Spencer said:


> This!!!!! I spent my $500 on the Cinesamples bundle. Anyone who shells out for this without FULL walkthroughs is nuts.


Again , ONLY trying yo clarify what someone told me (cause it made absolutely no sense to me )


----------



## Guffy

Considering there's no walkthroughs or anything showing the actual new content in this update, i'm pretty sure it's trash. It's super predictable now judging by how developers have behaved before releases in the past. There would be tons of demos and walkthroughs by now if they were proud of what they had achieved.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Guffy said:


> Considering there's no walkthroughs or anything showing the actual new content in this update, i'm pretty sure it's trash. It's super predictable now judging by how developers have behaved before releases in the past. There would be tons of demos and walkthroughs by now if they were proud of what they had achieved.


100%. A good example is Spitfire. They got my preorder on BBCSO thanks to their in-depth videos prior to release (and not at the 11th hour). They included going through nearly every patch (if not all). Hell, even Paul was excited about it . For Opus, it’s a shot in the dark. HOD owners already know HOD is an awesome library, but no one knows what that $495 is actually getting us....other than the Orchestrator which should be totally optional IMO. My hunch is that they’re intentionally deterring ownership, and pushing the subscription. I have CCX already, but would consider buying Opus Diamond outright if the price is right.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, but spitfire had to reap a backlash from the preorders on that when it didn't work if you were on windows.. they've changed their pre launch modus operandi since.. Now it's one vague video a week before..


----------



## YuyaoSG

Personally, I think the EW orchestrater can help you build high-quality music clips quickly, but it can not help you to be a real good orchestrater. Sometimes, midi technology and orchestrator like this give people hallucinations that make them feel that they have high-level composition skills. But When their music is presented on the score, everything(good or bad) is clear at one glance.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cqd said:


> Yeah, but spitfire had to reap a backlash from the preorders on that when it didn't work if you were on windows.. they've changed their pre launch modus operandi since.. Now it's one vague video a week before..


The point is, they at least had the videos available. Regardless of the bugs, you knew how it was going to sound, etc.


----------



## NoamL

The ensembles and ostinatos sound pretty darn good, honestly.

I don't know anyone who would use the "scoring" presets but someone who is using something like Symphobia rn for string patch sketching, could well see this as an upgrade...


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder if HOOPUS/OPUS improves the older HOD sounds, or they have kept the old HOD Presets without any improvements, just re-named, and better organized them, and added new presets using the new sample content they added for HOOPUS ?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

NoamL said:


> The ensembles and ostinatos sound pretty darn good, honestly.


And those could just be good ol’ HOD samples, we have no idea.


----------



## NoamL

About 'shortcuts', no there are no shortcuts. However if you are writing, let's say, a string piece with slow moving parts and the understanding that it will be orchestrated later, you have 2 choices:

1. Fully orchestrate each part ahead of time. This is the "best" method and also the slowest. It usually means you have a complete idea of the piece first, on a piano track etc. This way of producing has a couple downsides, it provides challenges for music editing and also for tweaking the performance since you need to change 5-8 other parts to keep the same attitude when you change one part.

2. Perform it with 2 hands on the piano and one string "pad" VI. The biggest downside is lack of realism in legato transitions. The biggest advantages are being able to improvise & build the piece as you go, and being able to make holistic changes to the performance, e.g. you only need to change one CC1 performance to change the quality of a crescendo across the entire string section.

I would use 2 different tools for these 2 jobs. HOOPUS's ensembles could be a candidate for #2 style writing.

I'm also interested to see that they don't just have a "string sustain" patch in their orchestrator but DOZENS of different ones. What are all the differences there?


----------



## ChristianM

In france + 20% for TVA…
Stupid in case btw USA and France
I wait audiodeluxe or other proposal


----------



## AndyP

What about the divisi strings in Opus and the Orchestrator. Apparently these cannot be accessed via the orchestrator? That would not be great.
Looks like only part of the diamond patches are available in Opus and that would be a big negative aspect for me. The divisi strings are a big plus in the HOD, I want to use them in OPUS too, regardless of the orchestrator. If the divisi does not work in Opus that would be more of a downgrade for me.

My guess is that it is because they are not available with all mic positions since they have in HOD also only the close mics.


----------



## Trax

muziksculp said:


> I wonder if HOOPUS/OPUS improves the older HOD sounds, or they have kept the old HOD Presets without any improvements, just re-named, and better organized them, and added new presets using the new sample content they added for HOOPUS ?


I'm hoping they made new instruments. If they never release hopus then there will always be hopus about what it has.


----------



## cqd

AndyP said:


> What about the divisi strings in Opus and the Orchestrator. Apparently these cannot be accessed via the orchestrator? That would not be great.
> Looks like only part of the diamond patches are available in Opus and that would be a big negative aspect for me. The divisi strings are a big plus in the HOD, I want to use them in OPUS too, regardless of the orchestrator. If the divisi does not work in Opus that would be more of a downgrade for me.
> 
> My guess is that it is because they are not available with all mic positions since they have in HOD also only the close mics.


Ah.. I'd imagine there are orchestrator specific patches.. Everything else will be there somewhere, with all the mics..


----------



## muziksculp

Trax said:


> I'm hoping they made new instruments. If they never release hopus then there will always be hopus about what it has.


I agree. Let's wait for more info. and videos, demos, ..etc. to find out.


----------



## proxima

The scoring presets seem useful in a similar way that buying scores or mockups can be useful: to study, for those who wonder "how do I get _that _sound out of sample libraries?" 

As for the rest of Orchestrator, I'll be curious to see how more advanced users find ways to use it for sketching or starting points or whatever. I won't write it off until adventurous and talented people try it and pan it.


----------



## AndyP

cqd said:


> Ah.. I'd imagine there are orchestrator specific patches.. Everything else will be there somewhere, with all the mics..


I hope so. Whether these can then also be configured with keyswitches in Opus? Phew, I need more information.


----------



## ChazC

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Anyone who shells out for this without FULL walkthroughs is nuts.


Exactly. I am quite willing to part with $650AUD depending on what I’m getting for it. I haven’t seen anything yet that comes anywhere near close to that value. The orchestrator is cool and all but $650AUD? They’re dreaming.

I was really excited when they (finally) dropped the walkthrough as I was expecting at least one more walkthrough of the rest of the update before now. They still have time obviously but it’s a close call.

@Guffy has probably hit the nail on the head - in all likelihood it’s on the whole a garbage release otherwise one would have thought they’d be pushing stuff out to promote it. I really do hope that’s not the case but as we have nothing else to go on what other conclusion is there (other than they are beyond woeful at marketing?!). I’ll say it again regardless of the eventual outcome (or an appearance of another video before release) - they’re a shoddy company.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Anyone who shells out for this without FULL walkthroughs is nuts.


Why though? What is the walkthrough really going to show that would be make or break based on what we already know? The sound is going to be HOD since most of the samples are that - sure there are some new sections, but they're going to likely be in the similar vein as the general tone of HOD. We know what the Orchestrator can do. And we know that the player is solving some of the long standing complaints with Play, specifically consolidate patches and the ability to have custom keyswitches. If you're leaning towards upgrading, I'm not sure the walkthrough will dissuade you, and similarly, if you're leaning towards not upgrading, I don't know that the walkthrough would change your mind.


----------



## Evans

ChazC said:


> Exactly. I am quite willing to part with $650AUD depending on what I’m getting for it. I haven’t seen anything yet that comes anywhere near close to that value. The orchestrator is cool and all but $650AUD? They’re dreaming.


*EastWest, for Opus: *

Very possibly will not release more than one audio demo and one partial software walkthrough (that many people don't want, yet it's baked into the price) before concluding their pre-order pricing.
Got rid of their web forum.
Has not provided clarity on precisely what the newly recorded content covers.
Has not provided clarity on the extent to which old instruments have been modified, despite this being a sore need (beyond some KS patches, have they removed lingering, bad takes that should by no means still exist?).
Has not provided clarity on how some of the software even functions, such as MIDI export (yeah, sure, we have it... promise!).
Tosses in some solo instruments with no unique upgrade path if you already purchased them.
*Audiobro, for Modern Scoring Strings:*

Retains low pricing through release even _after_ creating a 1.1 update.
Released 12 videos that detail a huge selection of software functions.
Released eight audio demos.
Has their own web forum.
Even still, participates at VI-Control, actively taking user feedback.
Shared in detail precisely what the new recordings are, as well as what was reused from prior releases (the solo viola).
Has upgrade paths for multiple customer engagements histories, even if you never bought their prior strings products.


----------



## ChazC

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Why though? What is the walkthrough really going to show that would be make or break based on what we already know? The sound is going to be HOD since most of the samples are that - sure there are some new sections, but they're going to likely be in the similar vein as the general tone of HOD. We know what the Orchestrator can do. And we know that the player is solving some of the long standing complaints with Play, specifically consolidate patches and the ability to have custom keyswitches. If you're leaning towards upgrading, I'm not sure the walkthrough will dissuade you, and similarly, if you're leaning towards not upgrading, I don't know that the walkthrough would change your mind.


So, you’d walk into a car showroom, read all the blurb about how great a car is and all its new features and just buy it on the spot even if said car wasn’t even on the floor to look at let alone take for a drive?

Companies dream about customers like you!


----------



## muziksculp

ChazC said:


> So, you’d walk into a car showroom, read all the blurb about how great a car is and all its new features and just buy it on the spot even if said car wasn’t even on the floor to look at let alone take for a drive?
> 
> Companies dream about customers like you!


Some people even get married in that manner.


----------



## gst98

ChazC said:


> So, you’d walk into a car showroom, read all the blurb about how great a car is and all its new features and just buy it on the spot even if said car wasn’t even on the floor to look at let alone take for a drive?
> 
> Companies dream about customers like you!



Millions of cars are sold exactly like this on new models that have just be unveiled because customers trust the brands history. Very often dealers can’t get demo cars for months due to high demand because so many are happy to buy sight unseen.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

ChazC said:


> So, you’d walk into a car showroom, read all the blurb about how great a car is and all its new features and just buy it on the spot even if said car wasn’t even on the floor to look at let alone take for a drive?
> 
> Companies dream about customers like you!


Funny how many cars Tesla has sold with just that model! And I already know what I'm getting based on being an owner of HOD.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Why though? What is the walkthrough really going to show that would be make or break based on what we already know? The sound is going to be HOD since most of the samples are that - sure there are some new sections, but they're going to likely be in the similar vein as the general tone of HOD. We know what the Orchestrator can do. And we know that the player is solving some of the long standing complaints with Play, specifically consolidate patches and the ability to have custom keyswitches. If you're leaning towards upgrading, I'm not sure the walkthrough will dissuade you, and similarly, if you're leaning towards not upgrading, I don't know that the walkthrough would change your mind.


How they’ve reworked the existing content, the 130GB of new content, the new features of the Opus engine, finer details on Orchestrator, etc. A full walk through could potentially change my mind. You are a perfect customer Lol!!


----------



## Mike Fox

cqd said:


> I often wonder why full grown adults watch superhero movies Tbh..


I didn’t know Bill Maher was a part of this forum. Welcome! 😁


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Funny how many cars Tesla has sold with just that model! And I already know what I'm getting based on being an owner of HOD.


Because you can research all of the details on a Tesla. You own HOD, but are clueless about Opus, we all are. Have you already shelled out for it?


----------



## ChazC

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Funny how many cars Tesla has sold with just that model! And I already know what I'm getting based on being an owner of HOD.


Just because you own HOD gives you zero information on what you’re paying for in the update. Absolutely nothing about owning HOD gives you any insight whatsoever (apart from the orchestrator) on what you’re getting for your money.

EW can tell you all they want but until we see it, no-one has any idea what the update does or does not contain.


----------



## szczaw

I want instant Hans Zimmer presets. Are there any ?


----------



## Toecutter

szczaw said:


> I want instant Hans Zimmer presets. Are there any ?


Yes I saw Batman and Spiderman


----------



## chocobitz825

doesnt matter how many walkthroughs they put out...a vocal part of the forum will never be satisfied until they have confirmed it has just the right articulations and legato transitions that they want....

people want to test drive the library and still get a pre-order price that fits their expectations of whats fair for their pockets.


----------



## szczaw

Toecutter said:


> Yes I saw Batman and Spiderman


I want Gladiator.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Jeremy Spencer said:


> How they’ve reworked the existing content, the 130GB of new content, the new features of the Opus engine, finer details on Orchestrator, etc. A full walk through could potentially change my mind. You are a perfect customer Lol!!


There's been no indication that they've reworked the existing content or planned to outside of consolidating the patches (which was the thing I wanted since the content is fine otherwise). The new content has been explained many times over in terms of what you're getting. I'm not concerned that it is going to be missing some critical articulation like staccato or something. The only feature I cared about from Opus is custom keyswitches, which has been shown.



Jeremy Spencer said:


> Because you can research all of the details on a Tesla. You own HOD, but are clueless about Opus, we all are. Have you already shelled out for it?


I'm not clueless about Opus because I've been paying attention to Nick's comments, their FB page, and the videos they've put out. Same as doing research. I haven't pre-ordered it yet.



ChazC said:


> Just because you own HOD gives you zero information on what you’re paying for in the update. Absolutely nothing about owning HOD gives you any insight whatsoever (apart from the orchestrator) on what you’re getting for your money.
> 
> EW can tell you all they want but until we see it, no-one has any idea what the update does or does not contain.


Owning HOD gives you a lot of insight into what the sound will be like though. And they've explained numerous times over numerous channels what the update contains.


----------



## AndyP

The soup slowly becomes cold and slightly bland in taste. It's high time for EW to serve it hot, otherwise we'll get cutlets from the competition instead of cold soup.


----------



## Toecutter

szczaw said:


> I want Gladiator.


there you go


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

chocobitz825 said:


> doesnt matter how many walkthroughs they put out...a vocal part of the forum will never be satisfied until they have confirmed it has just the right articulations and legato transitions that they want....
> 
> people want to test drive the library and still get a pre-order price that fits their expectations of whats fair for their pockets.


Exactly. The calculus is fairly simple in my mind. This is not going to be some revolutionary library the world has never seen before. They're going to make the player more flexible based on user feedback, they've recorded some additional content to address some complaints (about Woodwinds) and some things they wanted to do (new V1 section and some brass ensembles), and there's an Orchestrator. Either that is worth the upgrade price or it isn't.


----------



## chocobitz825

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Exactly. The calculus is fairly simple in my mind. This is not going to be some revolutionary library the world has never seen before. They're going to make the player more flexible based on user feedback, they've recorded some additional content to address some complaints (about Woodwinds) and some things they wanted to do (new V1 section and some brass ensembles), and there's an Orchestrator. Either that is worth the upgrade price or it isn't.


that seems like the problem with big library releases. There's this expectation that the developer is obligated to convince people to spend their money. I don't mean in the sense of marketing to get you interested in it, but rather an expectation that companies have an obligation to force our hands through the FOMO to the buy button by any means necessary. 

A pre-order is about faith. Taking the risk and the gamble in hopes you're getting quality. If someone doesn't believe enough in the product to take that leap, they don't have to buy it. I find it odd that those of us who have already decided not to upgrade have to defend why EW and the product have already given enough information to make an educated decision.


----------



## AndyP

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Exactly. The calculus is fairly simple in my mind. This is not going to be some revolutionary library the world has never seen before. They're going to make the player more flexible based on user feedback, they've recorded some additional content to address some complaints (about Woodwinds) and some things they wanted to do (new V1 section and some brass ensembles), and there's an Orchestrator. Either that is worth the upgrade price or it isn't.


And what if you don't like the revised legacy patches? Blind faith can sometimes be disappointed.


----------



## chocobitz825

AndyP said:


> And what if you don't like the revised legacy patches? Blind faith can sometimes be disappointed.


yup


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

AndyP said:


> And what if you don't like the revised legacy patches? Blind faith can sometimes be disappointed.


That's the thing - I don't think there's any indication anywhere that they planned to "revise" legacy patches in any way outside of consolidating the articulations somehow. There will be no tonal change (outside of the moods which are more mic mix presets).

I don't believe this is about blind faith. I am using the information I have gathered.


----------



## chocobitz825

ALittleNightMusic said:


> That's the thing - I don't think there's any indication anywhere that they planned to "revise" legacy patches in any way outside of consolidating the articulations somehow. There will be no tonal change (outside of the moods which are more mic mix presets).
> 
> I don't believe this is about blind faith. I am using the information I have gathered.


the only way to 100% know is to try it completely (which composer cloud allows)..other than that we've been through this song and dance over and over again. walkthroughs convince people to buy, and then they start combing through it to find sounds they don't like, or inconsistencies and things that didn't show up in walkthroughs. there's always a risk and a bit of faith involved, but people should be able to figure this out by now.


----------



## szczaw

After the pre-order, regular price is $995. Deep discounts are unlikely to come this year, maybe not even next year. When they come, the best case scenario is %60 which is $400. Might as well upgrade now for $500. It's not just the additional 130 gbs and nice presets, the whole things looks to be much simplified and streamlined.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

szczaw said:


> After the pre-order, regular price is $995. Deep discounts are unlikely to come this year, maybe not even next year. When they come, the best case scenario is %60 which is $400. Might as well upgrade now for $500. It's not just the additional 130 gbs and nice presets, the whole things looks to be much simplified and streamlined.


To be clear, the upgrade price after the pre-order is not $995. It is $595 for Diamond. A new license will be $995 after pre-order (vs. $795).


----------



## Trax

AndyP said:


> And what if you don't like the revised legacy patches? Blind faith can sometimes be disappointed.


That's the entire Audiobro's Modern Scoring Strings thread. People buying it, not liking it, then trying to convince themselves that they like the sound. Although, there's already an update coming. The aleatory patches sounded good though. And they waited to reveal the Legatos last, which was disappointing.


----------



## szczaw

ALittleNightMusic said:


> To be clear, the upgrade price after the pre-order is not $995. It is $595 for Diamond. A new license will be $995 after pre-order (vs. $795).


Yes, but EW is more prone to lower the price of the whole thing, then to lower the upgrade price. Numerous times in the past, discounted new HO license was cheaper than update.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Trax said:


> That's the entire Audiobro's Modern Scoring Strings thread. People buying it, not liking it, then trying to convince themselves that they like the sound. Although, there's already an update coming. The aleatory patches sounded good though. And they waited to reveal the Legatos last, which was disappointing.


As somebody who actually owns MSS, the legato is great after the 1.1 update. Tonally, the library is its own sound, which some people may or may not like (the demos and walkthroughs weren't hiding that aspect).


----------



## AndyP

ALittleNightMusic said:


> That's the thing - I don't think there's any indication anywhere that they planned to "revise" legacy patches in any way outside of consolidating the articulations somehow. There will be no tonal change (outside of the moods which are more mic mix presets).
> 
> I don't believe this is about blind faith. I am using the information I have gathered.


I think I read that the Woodwinds and other patches were revised, so not only new recordings.
Please don't get me wrong, it's not an attack against you. I would also like to enjoy the new OPUS player, but if you don't need things like the solo instruments or the orchestrator it's a hefty price to pay. There are a few new instruments, but I haven't missed them yet either.


----------



## chocobitz825

AndyP said:


> I think I read that the Woodwinds and other patches were revised, so not only new recordings.
> Please don't get me wrong, it's not an attack against you. I would also like to enjoy the new OPUS player, but if you don't need things like the solo instruments or the orchestrator it's a hefty price to pay. There are a few new instruments, but I haven't missed them yet either.


I'm being optimistic about EW here and assuming they're not trying to push everyone into their subscription service by hiking prices. I think they're not trying to convince us that we NEED opus. I think they've set the price where they think it needs to be, and they've offered monthly subscription options for people to try everything they have so that you can make the decision that fits your needs, instead of jumping in and buying something you don't need. It seems like this offering hasn't sparked joy in a lot of us...and that's ok, isn't it? maybe next time.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

AndyP said:


> I think I read that the Woodwinds and other patches were revised, so not only new recordings.
> Please don't get me wrong, it's not an attack against you. I would also like to enjoy the new OPUS player, but if you don't need things like the solo instruments or the orchestrator it's a hefty price to pay. There are a few new instruments, but I haven't missed them yet either.


You might be right about the patches - but you also mentioned something I left out, the solo instruments (which I don't own at the moment). I've heard the solo strings aren't that good, but the harp is (even though I own both CineHarp and Spitfire Harp). Either way, it changes what you end up getting - of course, depends on your current ownership and what you want and then what it is all worth for you. Certainly could be considered hefty. Some say $50 for the Abbey Road Selections is too pricey. Others will say Berlin Woodwinds at $800 is totally worth it. All depends on your situation and what you are expecting from the product.

To say somebody is "nuts" that they'd pre-order based on current information implies that somehow their evaluation criteria is incorrect or dumb.


----------



## AndyP

ALittleNightMusic said:


> To say somebody is "nuts" that they'd pre-order based on current information implies that somehow their evaluation criteria is incorrect or dumb.


I don't find it nuts when someone presses the buy button at this point in time. I am also close to it, but I still lack the final conviction to do it.
HO was a quality product and still is today. Otherwise this thread would not be so full of comments


----------



## Trax

AndyP said:


> I don't find it nuts when someone presses the buy button at this point in time. I am also close to it, but I still lack the final conviction to do it.
> HO was a quality product and still is today. Otherwise this thread would not be so full of comments


75% of the comments are by just 3 people though.


----------



## AndyP

Trax said:


> 75% of the comments are by just 3 people though.


As usual.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

AndyP said:


> I don't find it nuts when someone presses the buy button at this point in time. I am also close to it, but I still lack the final conviction to do it.
> HO was a quality product and still is today. Otherwise this thread would not be so full of comments


So what’s your hesitation?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> There's been no indication that they've reworked the existing content


The website says “reimagined original content”, whatever that means. Anyways, I’m convinced you’re in the EW marketing team (amusing, actually).


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> To say somebody is "nuts" that they'd pre-order based on current information implies that somehow their evaluation criteria is incorrect or dumb.


What is the tangible evaluation criteria? I’m not trying be a jerk, I’m honestly curious what it is.


----------



## Toecutter

AndyP said:


> I don't find it nuts when someone presses the buy button at this point in time. I am also close to it, but I still lack the final conviction to do it.
> HO was a quality product and still is today. Otherwise this thread would not be so full of comments


----------



## Chaosmod

Just touched based with EW support, so I am posting for clarification:

Me 18:14
I am on Composer Cloud Plus, but trying to clarify for a friend. Is the Composer Cloud Plus and Composer Cloud X identical with regards to getting the full opus release? Including extra mic positions and Diamond libraries?
Delivered

Thomas 18:17
I wouldn't go so far as to say they are identical per se.

The Orchestrator will be available for any tier of the Opus Edition.

The tiers are primarily for more mic positions - Gold is in 16 bit and includes 1 mic position, where there are 2 mic positions included in that version if you are on CCX.

Diamond/Platinum are in 24 bit and include all of the available mic positions for Opus, but they also do include the "Moods" mixes by Shawn Murphy, which are only in that tier.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Some have incorrectly assumed they get "the good stuff" on Composer Cloud or Composer Cloud X, which is not the case.

Although, if 16 bit Gold libraries with a single mic position and no Moods is good enough for your workflow, then definitely go with the cheaper options.


----------



## cqd

You didn't ask them what's the story with the next bleedin video?..


----------



## Trax

Its probably the Orchestrator walk through part deux.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Jeremy Spencer said:


> The website says “reimagined original content”, whatever that means. Anyways, I’m convinced you’re in the EW marketing team (amusing, actually).


Hah - EW can't afford me 



Jeremy Spencer said:


> What is the tangible evaluation criteria? I’m not trying be a jerk, I’m honestly curious what it is.


I bought HOD last year - after already owning HS and HB for a number of years. Unfortunately, I never got along with Play's approach to key switching (or lack thereof) or the 100s of (very similar) patches in HOD. Yes, it's not THAT complicated, but I gravitated towards other libraries that were more straightforward to use. So back when OPUS was first announced this time last year, I was most excited about the workflow improvements in the player (custom keyswitches, consolidated patches, even ability to see / change on the player itself all the CCs the library can take advantage of - legato speed, etc). The other stuff - like the new content and Orchestrator - was sort of like gravy on the top. So, right out of the gate, OPUS interested me purely from the standpoint of allowing me to get back to using HOD, which isn't even in my template right now. I haven't seen anything that negates that workflow improvement aspect.

So, if it provides the workflow improvements that allow me to start using HOD more, it becomes a question of what is the cost of those. And what else do I get for that cost. That evaluation is going to be personal to everybody. For me, the money isn't really a major factor - as long as I am getting something that I think I will use, which I believe I will.


----------



## dzilizzi

chocobitz825 said:


> doesnt matter how many walkthroughs they put out...a vocal part of the forum will never be satisfied until they have confirmed it has just the right articulations and legato transitions that they want....
> 
> people want to test drive the library and still get a pre-order price that fits their expectations of whats fair for their pockets.


There better be legato. You know it isn't a good library without legato.......

Unless, of course, it isn't supposed to have legato.


----------



## Chaosmod

cqd said:


> Ah, no, a lot has changed.. but there wasn't loads of people expecting to make a living playing music back in the day..


"Expecting" and "earning" are two completely different things. 

"Doing" and "dreaming" are two completely different things.


----------



## chocobitz825

dzilizzi said:


> There better be legato. You know it isn't a good library without legato.......
> 
> Unless, of course, it isn't supposed to have legato.


lets not even get started on the shorts and whether or not they are really staccato, spiccato and 
staccatissimo, or if they're just sloppy shorts that are useless for the "average professional composer of discerning tastes"


----------



## DarinD

Chaosmod said:


> Just touched based with EW support, so I am posting for clarification:
> 
> Me 18:14
> I am on Composer Cloud Plus, but trying to clarify for a friend. Is the Composer Cloud Plus and Composer Cloud X identical with regards to getting the full opus release? Including extra mic positions and Diamond libraries?
> Delivered
> 
> Thomas 18:17
> I wouldn't go so far as to say they are identical per se.
> 
> The Orchestrator will be available for any tier of the Opus Edition.
> 
> The tiers are primarily for more mic positions - Gold is in 16 bit and includes 1 mic position, where there are 2 mic positions included in that version if you are on CCX.
> 
> Diamond/Platinum are in 24 bit and include all of the available mic positions for Opus, but they also do include the "Moods" mixes by Shawn Murphy, which are only in that tier.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Some have incorrectly assumed they get "the good stuff" on Composer Cloud or Composer Cloud X, which is not the case.
> 
> Although, if 16 bit Gold libraries with a single mic position and no Moods is good enough for your workflow, then definitely go with the cheaper options.





Chaosmod said:


> I contacted support regarding legato. The Gold version will not have bow-change legato.





Chaosmod said:


> Just touched based with EW support, so I am posting for clarification:
> 
> Me 18:14
> I am on Composer Cloud Plus, but trying to clarify for a friend. Is the Composer Cloud Plus and Composer Cloud X identical with regards to getting the full opus release? Including extra mic positions and Diamond libraries?
> Delivered
> 
> Thomas 18:17
> I wouldn't go so far as to say they are identical per se.
> 
> The Orchestrator will be available for any tier of the Opus Edition.
> 
> The tiers are primarily for more mic positions - Gold is in 16 bit and includes 1 mic position, where there are 2 mic positions included in that version if you are on CCX.
> 
> Diamond/Platinum are in 24 bit and include all of the available mic positions for Opus, but they also do include the "Moods" mixes by Shawn Murphy, which are only in that tier.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Some have incorrectly assumed they get "the good stuff" on Composer Cloud or Composer Cloud X, which is not the case.
> 
> Although, if 16 bit Gold libraries with a single mic position and no Moods is good enough for your workflow, then definitely go with the cheaper options.


I also checked with support regarding the differences, specifically legato and re-bowing. Bow-change legato is not available in Gold. I didn't get a response on re-bows.


----------



## Geoff Grace

Looks promising, but I've decided I'm going to wait for reports from early adopters before I upgrade. 

I especially look forward to feedback from users who meet the minimum requirements, but not the recommended specs of eight cores, running at 2.7 GHz (or above) and an NVMe SSD.

If it runs well enough for them, I may jump in at the next upgrade sale.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## MauroPantin

AndyP said:


> I am also close to it, but I still lack the final conviction to do it.


----------



## Chaosmod

Lazer42 said:


> The distinction seems to me to be pretty clearcut. Most of the things you mention are tools which allow a person to more easily express their musical ideas. In this regard, they're like a word processor or even, if you like, dictation software. The technology is helps to record the ideas and even to make sure they're put down in the correct way (spelling and grammar checks, for instance), but the ideas are still coming from the author.
> 
> Hollywood Orchestrator seems to provide the same kind of help in some ways. Being able to write one key ostinato, for instance, and copy it over and over or transpose it into another key and so forth is sortof like copy and pasting a portion of a text that needs to be repeated.
> 
> There's a key distinction, though, when we start looking at presets which provide pre-written rhythms or orchestrations for the user. These features are no longer a tool which helps a person to record their ideas more easily, but are rather now providing ideas for the user. That's a big difference. If it stops at inspiration, that's one thing, but if the ideas that come built into the software are just dropped into work the user is putting out, that's different altogether.


But is it really? 

If I need inspiration, and go over to YouTube and listen to John Williams' "Imperial March" is that a significantly different experience than quickly playing a facsimile of John Williams' "Imperial March" in a plugin?

The tool didn't provide the idea. I alone decided that I needed inspiration, so I went and got an idea. Where I get it is irrelevant. The most the plugin does is save me a few minutes of plinking about on the piano. It's not doing anything I can't do. 

There was a time, not too long ago, when YouTube wasn't there to provide inspiration, and we had to go buy the CD, or cassette, or LP. 

For good or bad, that's how it evolved. 

I still just see this as "back in my day" gatekeeping. You can't put the genie back in the bottle, and the tech marches on.


----------



## Chaosmod

rnb_2 said:


> This caught my eye in a budget cinema production newsletter I'm subscribed to - there are already tools (I don't get the impression this is the first, just the latest) that completely replace a human composer and make Hollywood Orchestrator look pretty innocuous by comparison.
> 
> Dynascore Launched - AI Driven Music for Filmmakers


As a bonus, the demo also sounds like utter shit.


----------



## Chaosmod

ALittleNightMusic said:


> No point in being upset that somebody can be successful without the same sweat equity you put in.


Sharing for emphasis.


----------



## Lazer42

Chaosmod said:


> But is it really?
> 
> If I need inspiration, and go over to YouTube and listen to John Williams' "Imperial March" is that a significantly different experience than quickly playing a facsimile of John Williams' "Imperial March" in a plugin?
> 
> The tool didn't provide the idea. I alone decided that I needed inspiration, so I went and got an idea. Where I get it is irrelevant. The most the plugin does is save me a few minutes of plinking about on the piano. It's not doing anything I can't do.
> 
> There was a time, not too long ago, when YouTube wasn't there to provide inspiration, and we had to go buy the CD, or cassette, or LP.
> 
> For good or bad, that's how it evolved.
> 
> I still just see this as "back in my day" gatekeeping. You can't put the genie back in the bottle, and the tech marches on.



If one thinks that going on YouTube and trying to essentially transcribe someone else's work and call it "inspiration," that's no better or different than what we're talking about here. I wonder if our disagreement has a lot less to do with this particular technology and a lot more to do with what we regard as ethical and artistically worthwhile. 

To me, the problem with these presets is that they at best encourage and at worst assist users in doing something which is unethical and not musically worthwhile. Yes, people can do it on their own already, but that doesn't make it any better. 

- and we don't need to even consider whether these presets copy Williams or Zimmer or whomever. We can completely ignore that and it's still fundamentally a problem for me because the presets exist *at all* as things written by other people - famous people or not - and then will be used, often totally unedited, in other peoples' work. 

And even if they are edited a little bit, that doesn't make it much better. I don't get to take a painting painted by someone else - whether it's the Mona Lisa or a watercor made by a toddler - and then add some brushstrokes to it and call it my painting.


----------



## chocobitz825

MauroPantin said:


>


Opus made me kill my solo


----------



## szczaw

Lazer42 said:


> And even if they are edited a little bit, that doesn't make it much better. I don't get to take a painting painted by someone else - whether it's the Mona Lisa or a watercor made by a toddler - and then add some brushstrokes to it and call it my painting.


Analogies to paint and literature are misguided. In music, you can in fact mix chunks of music from different sources, vary harmony, transpose and end up with something different. Nobody is going to be the wiser.


----------



## JDK88

We copy other people's recipes to make our own food. Does the food belong to the person who made the recipe? No, it's your creation.


----------



## cqd

JDK88 said:


> We copy other people's recipes to make our own food. Does the food belong to the person who made the recipe? No, it's your creation.


And some of us subsist on frozen pizzas..


----------



## Lazer42

JDK88 said:


> We copy other people's recipes to make our own food. Does the food belong to the person who made the recipe? No, it's your creation.



If someone literally copies someone else's recipe then no, it's not their own creation any more than I can say it's my own creation when I play a Mozart piece on the piano.

It's my own *performance,* and that's a meaningful thing to have credit for. The great steak one makes using a recipe from a master chef is also their own *performance,* of sorts, and that matters. Some people can make a great meal using a recipe and others can't, so it's a worthy thing to be given credit for just like playing the piece on the piano, but that credit doesn't include the creative element of writing the piece or developing the recipe.


----------



## szczaw

Lazer42 said:


> If someone literally copies someone else's recipe then no, it's not their own creation any more than I can say it's my own creation when I play a Mozart piece on the piano.
> 
> It's my own *performance,* and that's a meaningful thing to have credit for. The great steak one makes using a recipe from a master chef is also their own *performance,* of sorts, and that matters. Some people can make a great meal using a recipe and others can't, so it's a worthy thing to be given credit for just like playing the piece on the piano, but that credit doesn't include the creative element of writing the piece or developing the recipe.


Your brain subconsciously reassembles, what you've been exposed to throughout your life. There's no such thing are purely your own creation. It's meaningful to create something great and be credited for it. How you actually get there is completely irrelevant.


----------



## Lazer42

szczaw said:


> Analogies to paint and literature are misguided. In music, you can in fact mix chunks of music from different sources, vary harmony, transpose and end up with something different. Nobody is going to be the wiser.


This is actually an interesting comment and I wonder how much of the disagreement on this topic is rooted in a different focus on purpose. 

What I mean is this: maybe I'm misreading it, and correct me if I am, but the comment seems to be saying that what matters is what the listener *thinks* of what they're hearing regardless of what they really are hearing. Or, to put it a little less euphemistically, it reads to me like what's being said is that it's all about what one can get past the audience. So, for example, if someone literally copies someone else's work, it's okay as long as the audience doesn't notice. 

It would be okay in this perspective, then, to take some obscure piece from an obscure composer from the 1700s that 99% of people have never heard of before and just present that piece as one's own, since nobody will "be the wiser." They'll _think _the modern composer wrote it, and that's all that will matter. 

If I'm interpreting this wrongly then I apologize, but that's what I am taking from "nobody will be the wiser." 

From my perspective, what matters much more is the personal knowledge that I have created something. If I sit down to write something, in a certain sense I don't care what others think of my work as long as I have the personal satisfaction of having made something myself. It reminds me of the comparison I made earlier in this discussion to people cheating at online games. If I cheat at an online game and do it well, else in the world might think very highly of my skills, but I see no value in it for me._ I'll _know I didn't really win those games, so what is the value in having gotten credit for them?


----------



## Lazer42

szczaw said:


> Your brain subconsciously reassembles, what you've been exposed to throughout your life. There's no such thing are purely your own creation. It's meaningful to create something great and be credited for it. How you actually get there is completely irrelevant.


Of course you're correct that anything any of us creates is going to be a synthesis of everything else we've been exposed to, and that's true of painting and music and cooking and everything else. There's just a difference - a big one - between a genuine synthesis of your life's experience and a more direct copy of a single or of a small group of works.

That's actually the meaning behind that "great artists steal" quote that was brought up earlier in the discussion: a lesser artist only tries to imitate or to copy an individual work that he or she likes, whereas a great artist "steals" the _fundamental elements _of a whole bunch of works and from all of that creates something new.

In fact I've actually read things from great artists - authors, musicians - where they have made the point that if you want to be a great author or musician or whatever you should start reading/listening/whatever as much as you can from other writers/musicians/whatever. That's very common advice, of course, but the deeper level or the elaboration I've heard in a few cases is that essentially if you don't read/listen to enough, then when you sit down to create your own thing it's just going to wind up being a copy of the limited number of things you have been exposed to. On the other hand, if you read/listen to a lot of different things, then you start to build something that is uniquely yours from that big mass of stuff you've seen.


----------



## szczaw

Lazer42 said:


> What I mean is this: maybe I'm misreading it, and correct me if I am, but the comment seems to be saying that what matters is what the listener *thinks* of what they're hearing regardless of what they really are hearing. Or, to put it a little less euphemistically, it reads to me like what's being said is that it's all about what one can get past the audience. So, for example, if someone literally copies someone else's work, it's okay as long as the audience doesn't notice.


No, simply the end result is what counts and not how you get to it. The audience thinks the same way. Music is made out of pieces (at the basic level there are chords and scales) that can be reused. That's the process of composing. That is not the case with visual art (excluding abstract stuff) and literary works. At the end of the day, after I made something, the only question I ask myself is: is it good ? What's the point of creating original mediocrity ?


----------



## chocobitz825

szczaw said:


> No, simply the end result is what counts and not how you get to it. The audience thinks the same way. Music is made out of pieces (at the basic level there are chords and scales) that can be reused. That's the process of composing. That is not the case with visual art (excluding abstract stuff) and literary works. At the end of the day, after I made something, the only question I ask myself is: is it good ? What's the point of creating original mediocrity ?


I have a much harder time judging "good....at the end I want to ask myself if it's what I intended to make in a way that only I can. Even if there is influence from someone else, the goal is to not try and make what they made. Even with a tool like orchestrator, you can take influence, and make something new, if you mean to.


----------



## gzapper

JDK88 said:


> We copy other people's recipes to make our own food. Does the food belong to the person who made the recipe? No, it's your creation.


Sort of like using recordings of a lot of players in a sample library?
Do they own the rights to the music created with samples of them?

I do find this entertaining, at best the orchestrator is going to give you four bars of comping in the style of a composer you like. Its still up to you to go further than vamping on 1 chord or a i, iv, v progression and make it fit your media bosses' needs.


----------



## szczaw

Lazer42 said:


> It would be okay in this perspective, then, to take some obscure piece from an obscure composer from the 1700s that 99% of people have never heard of before and just present that piece as one's own, since nobody will "be the wiser." They'll _think _the modern composer wrote it, and that's all that will matter.


That would be plagiarism. I'm talking about composing a level or more up (working with motives, phrases, whole sequences). The fact that it can be done, and the end result would be indistinguishable from making something from scratch, makes the pursuit of the latter irrelevant. Do whatever you like.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Geoff Grace said:


> Looks promising, but I've decided I'm going to wait for reports from early adopters before I upgrade.
> 
> I especially look forward to feedback from users who meet the minimum requirements, but not the recommended specs of eight cores, running at 2.7 GHz (or above) and an NVMe SSD.
> 
> If it runs well enough for them, I may jump in at the next upgrade sale.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


I'm on CC+ and somewhere between minimum and recommended specs (i7 4790, 32GB 1600Hz ram, Win 10, SSD), so I'm willing to answer questions and be a dancing monkey when it comes out 🐒😂


----------



## cqd

Did anyone tell Lazer he doesn't have to buy it?..

Anyway.. thought we'd have another video by now..


----------



## szczaw

cqd said:


> Did anyone tell Lazer he doesn't have to buy it?..


He's battling the concept of it.


----------



## cqd

szczaw said:


> He's battling the concept of it.


Valiantly..


----------



## szczaw

cqd said:


> Valiantly..


100% creationism is a dying paradigm


----------



## chocobitz825

cqd said:


> Did anyone tell Lazer he doesn't have to buy it?..


shhh no spoilers!


----------



## VSriHarsha

Thanks @dzilizzi & @chocobitz825


----------



## tmhuud

I think HOOPUS is one of the best acronyms you forum folks ever came up with. At least i'll remember that one.

Now back to my JWGOTWW edition. (Johnny Walker Game of Thrones White Walker edition) OTR (On the Rocks) whilst you all duke it out...


----------



## alcorey

I seem to have forgotten..........probably age.........
Who's buying and who isn't?






just kidding......I'll have one of those JWGOTWW - OTR also please


----------



## Trax

This track was made with The Orchestrator: Shostakovich 03


----------



## I like music

Trash Panda said:


> Now if we have someone feed Scaler 2, Captain Chords, or Orb Composer into the orchestrator, we might have the perfect storm of controversy to achieve the VI-C drama zone singularity.


If that 'someone' was called Staypuft then the website might just go down.

Have terrible Internet here and EW website won't load. What's the latest? Have they provided run-throughs of the non orchestrator stuff?


----------



## tmhuud

I'm sure Staypuft is out there somewhere keeping busy.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Let's shake the doom and gloom from this thread, and start staring at the glass and realising that is also half full.

They are starting with a library that has stood the test of time, with a very comprehensive set of articulations and in many sections, a sound that is still first class all these years later.

They've hired two extremely talented Wolfgang's (and apparently in software development, two Wolfgang's is the correct number) with a proven record of excellence, and come at this from the viewpoint of correcting two of the most common criticisms on the existing library.

They have decided to make it easier and more fun to use, and to revisit the sections (like the woodwinds) that most people weren't too keen on. They've even brought back the talents of a certain Messrs Murphy & Phoenix, and in fact to quote John Hammond, it seems that they have 'spared no expense'.

I think it's fair to say East West have invested a lot of time, effort and money to bring this to market.

OK, the supporting marketing materials and comms may not have been, ahem, timely, but with a pre-order that's the chance you take. But I think the chances are pretty good that this will sound very good indeed. Why ? - Because I already have most of the samples already.

How disheartening it must be, as a developer, to put all this time, effort and money in to this update, and then to have your product described as 'Trash', before anyone has even got their hands on it.

Will it be perfect ? Of course not, perfection is solely within the purview of my wife, and there will be the great and not so great aspects of this library.

I don't make my living from composing. I'd have to be bloody successful to keep my family in the, how can I put it - ah yes - 'the style to which they have become accustomed'. I have been offered the chance to do a couple of independent films - with fairly decent budgets. However, after one long day going through cues with temp tracks, it became clear they needed a photocopier rather than a composer.

I say this because I love writing and studying music, and it seems that to pursue a career in it (and I'm too old now in my 50's to start) would suck the joy out of it, and the more I read on this and other forums, it seems to confirm this is the case. You Professionals must have worked your arses off and made tremendous sacrifices to make a living from music, so please don't forget to enjoy it, otherwise what's the point ?

In my businesses, I always asked the people who answered the phones to pause and smile before picking up with handset - it's funny, but at the other end of the phone you can almost always tell. Maybe we need to smile a bit more, I mean, what could possibly go wrong.

So Roll on Tuesday, it's going to be a fun day as we may also find out what Apple has planned for the future with their M1 processor. A new 27" iMac with 64gb would just be the ticket, though I imagine it won't be cheap.

As I said, I'm in my mid fifties, and if I'm very lucky, I'll get another twenty or so years before I'll need help to wipe my bottom. Those years will simply whizz by.

I'm going to make sure that i enjoy every single fucking day of it. I would respectfully suggest that you all do the same.....


----------



## Chaosmod

Lazer42 said:


> If one thinks that going on YouTube and trying to essentially transcribe someone else's work and call it "inspiration," that's no better or different than what we're talking about here. I wonder if our disagreement has a lot less to do with this particular technology and a lot more to do with what we regard as ethical and artistically worthwhile.
> 
> To me, the problem with these presets is that they at best encourage and at worst assist users in doing something which is unethical and not musically worthwhile. Yes, people can do it on their own already, but that doesn't make it any better.
> 
> - and we don't need to even consider whether these presets copy Williams or Zimmer or whomever. We can completely ignore that and it's still fundamentally a problem for me because the presets exist *at all* as things written by other people - famous people or not - and then will be used, often totally unedited, in other peoples' work.
> 
> And even if they are edited a little bit, that doesn't make it much better. I don't get to take a painting painted by someone else - whether it's the Mona Lisa or a watercor made by a toddler - and then add some brushstrokes to it and call it my painting.


Apparently you missed the point completely, and at this point I think you're being intentionally disingenuous.

No one mentioned "transcribing someone's work and call it inspiration" get off your haughty high horse.

Every serious composer does score study, it is how we learn harmonic structure, how we learn to equate what we hear with our ears, to what we see on paper.

Do you seriously think John Williams stumbled into sounding like Holst and Korngold by some divine coincidence? Just bumped into it by accident?

He studied scores, listened to temp music, and delivered a product that shared the same dynamic at his employer's request.

You want to be condescending about this, it's very obvious, and frankly that's offensive to every one of us. Why do you think we pay $85 to get film score copies? Why do places IMSLP.org exist, if score study is not ethically and artistically valid?

Let me ask you this, before I try my best to ignore any further utterances trickling down from your lofty heights...

Are we not allowed to sound like Mr. Zimmer? Mr. Williams? Mr. Silvestri? Mr. Goldsmith? If a director hands us a piece of temp music for the first cue, should I tell him that Lazer42 said I can't get close to any of those people because it's not ethical or artistically worthwhile?

Notice that I'm not saying "it's okay to plagiarize" as you disingenuously imply, repeatedly.

If I idolize Holst (I do) and buy all his scores I could find (I did) and occasionally bust out a passacaglia or chaconne in my brass section, is that unethical and artistically shite in your esteemed opinion?

If a modern painter uses a WACOM tablet and a light pen and a few macros to paint something impressionistic that has some really vivid yellows and deep blues, is that an affront to Van Gogh? (this is actually the only artist analogy that would be remotely similar - the orchestrator is essentially a composer's macro, the DAW his WACOM tablet, and the midi controller is his light pen)

Why are you trying to gatekeep composers from standard tools like score study?

Why are you forbidding us from making a leap in technology similar to what artists have done in the last 20 years?

Why are you still beating this dead horse and embarrassing yourself in front of your peers?


----------



## Chaosmod

Michael Antrum said:


> Let's shake the doom and gloom from this thread, and start staring at the glass and realising that is also half full.
> 
> They are starting with a library that has stood the test of time, with a very comprehensive set of articulations and in many sections, a sound that is still first class all these years later.
> 
> They've hired two extremely talented Wolfgang's (and apparently in software development, two Wolfgang's is the correct number) with a proven record of excellence, and come at this from the viewpoint of correcting two of the most common criticisms on the existing library.
> 
> They have decided to make it easier and more fun to use, and to revisit the sections (like the woodwinds) that most people weren't too keen on. They've even brought back the talents of a certain Messrs Murphy & Phoenix, and in fact to quote John Hammond, it seems that they have 'spared no expense'.
> 
> I think it's fair to say East West have invested a lot of time, effort and money to bring this to market.
> 
> OK, the supporting marketing materials and comms may not have been, ahem, timely, but with a pre-order that's the chance you take. But I think the chances are pretty good that this will sound very good indeed. Why ? - Because I already have most of the samples already.
> 
> How disheartening it must be, as a developer, to put all this time, effort and money in to this update, and then to have your product described as 'Trash', before anyone has even got their hands on it.
> 
> Will it be perfect ? Of course not, perfection is solely within the purview of my wife, and there will be the great and not so great aspects of this library.
> 
> I don't make my living from composing. I'd have to be bloody successful to keep my family in the, how can I put it - ah yes - 'the style to which they have become accustomed'. I have been offered the chance to do a couple of independent films - with fairly decent budgets. However, after one long day going through cues with temp tracks, it became clear they needed a photocopier rather than a composer.
> 
> I say this because I love writing and studying music, and it seems that to pursue a career in it (and I'm too old now in my 50's to start) would suck the joy out of it, and the more I read on this and other forums, it seems to confirm this is the case. You Professionals must have worked your arses off and made tremendous sacrifices to make a living from music, so please don't forget to enjoy it, otherwise what's the point ?
> 
> In my businesses, I always asked the people who answered the phones to pause and smile before picking up with handset - it's funny, but at the other end of the phone you can almost always tell. Maybe we need to smile a bit more, I mean, what could possibly go wrong.
> 
> So Roll on Monday, it's going to be a fun day as we may also find out what Apple has planned for the future with their M1 processor. A new 27" iMac with 64gb would just be the ticket, though I imagine it won't be cheap.
> 
> As I said, I'm in my mid fifties, and if I'm very lucky, I'll get another twenty or so years before I'll need help to wipe my bottom. Those years will simply whizz by.
> 
> I'm going to make sure that i enjoy every single fucking day of it. I would respectfully suggest that you all do the same.....


Dude. I'm 55.

I know you're trying to keep family in the comfort they've become used to, but you could totally switch careers.

Look at Reagan. Middling actor, ran for governor at 54, in 1965 - 22 years later he was asking Mr. Gorbachev to tear down a certain wall in Berlin, as the President of The United States.

Love him or hate him, you have to admit that was a successful career change.

Also, https://www.theladders.com/career-a...sful-people-who-switched-careers-after-age-50


----------



## Chungus

Michael Antrum said:


> They've hired two extremely talented Wolfgang's (and apparently in software development, two Wolfgang's is the correct number)


Three is the magic number. All good things come in threes. Which is why they should have hired Alexander Wolfgang to compose the demo. The fact that they didn't is why the demo is poorly received - people can subconsciously feel the almost-but-not-quite perfect level of Wolfgangry.


----------



## Chaosmod

Chungus said:


> Wolfgangry.


That just makes them sound mad. Wolfgangery? Wolfgangism?


----------



## chocobitz825

Michael Antrum said:


> You Professionals must have worked your arses off and made tremendous sacrifices to make a living from music, so please don't forget to enjoy it, otherwise what's the point ?


Enjoy...?

what does this word mean?


----------



## szczaw

Michael Antrum said:


> How disheartening it must be, as a developer, to put all this time, effort and money in to this update, and then to have your product described as 'Trash', before anyone has even got their hands on it.


In hell there's a special place for developers who charge twice for the same sample content. Just kidding. Evidently people get emotionally attached to their libraries and hence all the drama.


----------



## ChazC

Michael Antrum said:


> How disheartening it must be, as a developer, to put all this time, effort and money in to this update, and then to have your product described as 'Trash', before anyone has even got their hands on it.


A very well put set of arguments but the only thing I really didn’t agree with is this comment.

EastWest, for whatever reason brought those comments and conclusions upon themselves by not engaging with potential customers in whatever form. There has simply not been enough information forthcoming from them to determine that it actually won’t be trash. Do I think it will be trash? I really have absolutely no idea as I haven’t seen enough to make a decision either way - but the chance is there. Unless EW prove otherwise I, or anyone else is free to state whatever they think due purely to nothing to the contrary forthcoming from EW. That’s not anyone’s fault but EW’s.

I have no sympathy for EW at all in anyone describing this update as trash. If it’s not trash let us see it so we can decide. Fair enough if it was a $50 update but it’s not. Asking anyone to part with $500 USD for a virtually sight-unseen update is absolute madness.

Does anyone actually think the Orchestrator is worth $500 on it’s own? If so, good for you, give EW your money and relax knowing you got your value for money - that’s all cool. For me personally, I need to see more even though I have $500 to drop on it. To be honest it’s even more a point of principle now than whether or not it’s actually trash or not! Bonkers!

Anyway, there’s a day left so here’s hoping EW drop a walkthrough of the new player and new content as they said they would so we can all make our own judgements and decide accordingly.

With EW’s track record even if we have to wait until after release to see what the update is really like we can probably count on being able to pick up the complete HOOPUS for less than the update price anyway. Nothing lost other than 8-12 months. Which is also, bonkers.


----------



## Chungus

Chaosmod said:


> That just makes them sound mad. Wolfgangery? Wolfgangism?


Wolfgangism sounds like an ideology. I vote Wolfgangery.


----------



## FinGael

Chaosmod said:


> That just makes them sound mad. Wolfgangery? Wolfgangism?



You could make a "cool" band and album name from all that. Like "Angry Wolf Gang - More Charts Music".

(Haven't had my morning coffee and it's afternoon here already...)

PS. Reading the last twenty or so pages makes me think that EW released a walkthrough for Philosophorator rather than Ochestrator.


----------



## chocobitz825

EW needs to work harder to convince us to part with $500...
god forbid our cash goes *gasp* unspent!? 😧


----------



## ChristianM

very expansive !


----------



## JonSolo

Maybe there really is no creation....only performance.

It is unlikely that any of us are going to stumble upon a chord progression that has not been done that also is palatable. While melody is king, movement from one note to another from any previous note is not new.

What IS creative is how we get to that point: the tools. 

I would never dream of using or transcribing a piece of music and then call it mine. However, I have used many pieces as totems to get my mind out of my own box...I have used albums, CDs, Youtube, MP3s, etc...but I have also used paintings, sculptures, architecture, and nature to get there as well.

Some wise ancient words read: "there is nothing new under the sun."


----------



## Lazer42

szczaw said:


> That would be plagiarism. I'm talking about composing a level or more up (working with motives, phrases, whole sequences). The fact that it can be done, and the end result would be indistinguishable from making something from scratch, makes the pursuit of the latter irrelevant. Do whatever you like.



I think that if you start with something someone else wrote - not just listening to another's work and then going to do something on your own, but literally having what somebody else wrote already there programmed in - it will be plagiarism almost no matter what you do to it. 

If one wants to use Orchestrator from scratch to write one's own thing, that's fine. That's writing one's own work with a tool.

Taking something someone else wrote and modifying it until you like it is a form of plagiarism, and in all sorts of contextsin society we treat this kind of thing as such. If I take a patented product and start modifying it until it's very different, I'm still probably on the hook. Heck, even with music if someone sues me for copying their work the court will try to judge whether my piece is fundamentally the same work with modifications. The biggest difference here is that the people who "wrote" these presets are giving permission to people to use them and so nobody will be sued, but I'd venture to say that a lot of the work that will be produced with these presets would not pass muster for originality in court if it did have to face the usual kind of scrutiny.


----------



## gamma-ut

Lazer42 said:


> The biggest difference here is that the people who "wrote" these presets are giving permission to people to use them and so nobody will be sued, but I'd venture to say that a lot of the work that will be produced with these presets would not pass muster for originality in court if it did have to face the usual kind of scrutiny.


Are they giving permission? The default preset for Synthmaster merrily plays the motif from Eurythmics' _Sweet Dreams_. I think I'd find it hard to claim in court that KV331 gave me "permission" to use it commercially: it's clear that they don't have the permission to give.

I would not be surprised to find there's a clause in the licence that says one or more of the patterns are "for educational purposes only" as has happened with some sample libraries used for dance music.

However, as we're dealing with largely classical styles here it is also possible that many of the patterns used are derived from out-of-copyright sources, which is one reason why these sources are so often quoted in film/media music: they're fair considered game as has been demonstrated in some famous themes (something that's been mentioned numerous times in this thread). Does the preset as provided out of the box give you Williams or Copland?

Even then, will some neophyte take a pattern that happens to wind up as a segment of a famous tune+arrangement and do a YouTube video claiming they made it? Of course they will. But it's likely to end badly for them, if not in court. I remember the time someone decided it was a cracking idea to make a few small changes to an FLStudio demo track and try to claim they wrote it. I think they weren't that old because what they didn't realise that said demo was no ordinary demo. Deadmau5 was (and probably still is) a user of the software and a fan of it so was happy to provide a version of _Faxing Berlin_ as a demo. This did not take long to get spotted.


----------



## Lazer42

Chaosmod said:


> Apparently you missed the point completely, and at this point I think you're being intentionally disingenuous.
> 
> No one mentioned "transcribing someone's work and call it inspiration" get off your haughty high horse.
> 
> Every serious composer does score study, it is how we learn harmonic structure, how we learn to equate what we hear with our ears, to what we see on paper.
> 
> Do you seriously think John Williams stumbled into sounding like Holst and Korngold by some divine coincidence? Just bumped into it by accident?
> 
> He studied scores, listened to temp music, and delivered a product that shared the same dynamic at his employer's request.
> 
> You want to be condescending about this, it's very obvious, and frankly that's offensive to every one of us. Why do you think we pay $85 to get film score copies? Why do places IMSLP.org exist, if score study is not ethically and artistically valid?
> 
> Let me ask you this, before I try my best to ignore any further utterances trickling down from your lofty heights...
> 
> Are we not allowed to sound like Mr. Zimmer? Mr. Williams? Mr. Silvestri? Mr. Goldsmith? If a director hands us a piece of temp music for the first cue, should I tell him that Lazer42 said I can't get close to any of those people because it's not ethical or artistically worthwhile?
> 
> Notice that I'm not saying "it's okay to plagiarize" as you disingenuously imply, repeatedly.
> 
> If I idolize Holst (I do) and buy all his scores I could find (I did) and occasionally bust out a passacaglia or chaconne in my brass section, is that unethical and artistically shite in your esteemed opinion?
> 
> If a modern painter uses a WACOM tablet and a light pen and a few macros to paint something impressionistic that has some really vivid yellows and deep blues, is that an affront to Van Gogh? (this is actually the only artist analogy that would be remotely similar - the orchestrator is essentially a composer's macro, the DAW his WACOM tablet, and the midi controller is his light pen)
> 
> Why are you trying to gatekeep composers from standard tools like score study?
> 
> Why are you forbidding us from making a leap in technology similar to what artists have done in the last 20 years?
> 
> Why are you still beating this dead horse and embarrassing yourself in front of your peers?



I think score study and learning from others is great. The reason I talked about transcribing is because I've been trying to raise what seems to me to be a very clear distinction between doing score study and listening to others work, etc., then incorporating all of those lessons into their work, vs. someone just trying to directly imitate another's individual piece of work.

You yourself, if I'm not mistaken, raised the "great artists steal" quote, the entire point of which is that trying to directly imitate another's work is different and lesser from taking individual elements, techniques, etc. from a bunch of other artists and trying to synthesize them into something new.

Maybe we just have different impressions of what is possible with these presets, but I don't see them as affording that "great artists steal" dynamic. For one thing, I just don't see at all how anyone is going to study these the way you might study a score or even a MIDI file, but that aside, they seem to essentially be individual "backing tracks" for lack of a better term, that you can modify. 

And so that's why I spoke about transcribing. You raised the idea of listening to another's work on YouTube for inspiration, which to me could very well be part of doing the "great artists steal" thing, but you compared it to what Hollywood Orchestrator presets can do, and to me all you can do with Hollywood Orchestrator presets - not the software itself, which appears to be more versatile, but the presets - is like taking that $85 score, changing a few notes here and there, and then calling it your own work. 

In other words, my point specifically was that if a person by listening to a YouTube recording sits down and writes something the equivalent to what they could accomplish with one of these presets, they must have just transcribed it, because that's all the presets can do for a person. 

So no, I'm not at all against study, learning, drawing inspiration, wanting to incorporate particular "tools" from other composers' toolboxes into their own. I just don't see these presets as being particularly good for *any* of that, but rather to be really good for more directly *copying* the work of others, whether that other is Hans Zimmer or someone I the EW offices.


----------



## Lazer42

gamma-ut said:


> Are they giving permission? The default preset for Synthmaster merrily plays the motif from the Eurythmics' _Sweet Dreams_. I think I'd find it hard to claim in court that KV331 gave me "permission" to use it commercially: it's clear that they don't have the permission to give.
> 
> I would not be surprised to find there's a clause in the licence that says one or more of the patterns are "for educational purposes only" as has happened with some sample libraries used for dance music.
> 
> However, as we're dealing with largely classical styles here it is also possible that many of the patterns used are derived from out-of-copyright sources, which is one reason why these sources are so often quoted in film/media music: they're fair considered game as has been demonstrated in some famous themes (something that's been mentioned numerous times in this thread). Does the preset as provided out of the box give you Williams or Copland?
> 
> Even then, will some neophyte take a pattern that happens to wind up as a segment of a famous tune+arrangement and do a YouTube video claiming they made it? Of course they will. But it's likely to end badly for them, if not in court. I remember the time someone decided it was a cracking idea to make a few small changes to a Fruity Loops demo track and try to claim they wrote it. I think they weren't that old because what they didn't realise that said demo was no ordinary demo. Deadmau5 was (and probably still is) a user of the software and a fan of it so was happy to provide a version of _Faxing Berlin_ as a demo. This did not take long to get spotted.



Agreed. This is the thing: my entire issue here is not with the tool itself, nor even necessarily with some of the things the presets can afford.

Looking at that demo, I cannot imagine these being useful for learning or education, but if they turn out to be then great. In this regard, maybe they're less intended as "presets" than as demos. Maybe their purpose is to say, "here's how you'd use Orchestrator to write the Superman theme, *for example*."

The problem seems to me that there are just some of these presets that they can't all be intended for that purpose, and so there must be some intent behind them for people to do something like the Fruity Loops case you mention, and that's the problem.


----------



## gamma-ut

Lazer42 said:


> For one thing, I just don't see at all how anyone is going to study these the way you might study a score or even a MIDI file, but that aside, they seem to essentially be individual "backing tracks" for lack of a better term, that you can modify.


The one big advantage, and this is one that Orchestrator likely has over TOC2, is that you have an easy ability to change the rhythms and chord-degree options for each of the instruments, which will give a very quick idea of how those affect the texture. You have the same facility with a bunch of sequencers tied into MIDI tracks with an existing sample library but this clearly saves some time in transcribing the notes across.

So, I can entirely see it being useful as a study aid. Will everyone use it that way? Probably not. But I don't see that as a reason to kill off the option to use it to help prototype orchestration techniques, which you seem to want to do.


----------



## szczaw

Lazer42 said:


> I think that if you start with something someone else wrote - not just listening to another's work and then going to do something on your own, but literally having what somebody else wrote already there programmed in - it will be plagiarism almost no matter what you do to it.


Plagiarism is passing somebody's work as your own. If you use somebody's work in some process that changes it, and something else comes out of it, then that is obviously not plagiarism. I'm not talking about modifying, but something more radical.


----------



## gamma-ut

Lazer42 said:


> The problem seems to me that there are just some of these presets that they can't all be intended for that purpose, and so there must be some intent behind them for people to do something like the Fruity Loops case you mention, and that's the problem.


If you think Gol and the Gang decided including _Faxing Berlin _was for some other reason than to see how one famous user applied the software, then I don't think there's any way to get through to you. And, to be clear, Deadmau5 provided the demo: it wasn't reverse engineered.


----------



## Johnny

It's thankfully deeply imbedded in music copyright laws, that you cannot copyright a harmony (not even factoring in textural changes that you will be making) otherwise you would be prohibiting the human race from creating anything new. Anyone can use a chord progression, and just like you cannot by sample law, (if you read fine print) just hold down a single loop in Storm Drum, and sell the loop as your own without being required to layer in at least one more sample in to actually make it your own? I am sure the same would go for Hollywood Orchestrator. I hear zero melodic lines in the orchestrations EW is offering- much like Symphobia. This is leaving the melodic content and textural changes that you will make, to be the copyright passing factor that will make each composition your own : ) = all is good in court: )


----------



## Evans

Lazer42 said:


> I just don't see at all how anyone is going to study these the way you might study a score


Quoting for emphasis. I'm low level when it comes to composing with orchestral instruments, but I've spent _far _more over the years on scores than I have on orchestral virtual instruments.

The Orchestrator does seem like a nice way to break past a mental block when you're seeking inspiration, but I can't fathom it as a study aid. Are people really going to lay down some bars with the Orchestrator, get the MIDI in their DAW, and scrutinize harmony or counterpoint?

Seriously, I'd like an answer, because I genuinely don't get the value of it for that use case. Are people fooling themselves, or am I a fool? Both?


----------



## gamma-ut

Evans said:


> Are people really going to lay down some bars with the Orchestrator, get the MIDI in their DAW, and scrutinize harmony or counterpoint?


ICYMI, I provided a scenario just above. 

I think the clue is in the name: Orchestrator. It's not Composer or Counterpointer.


----------



## Lazer42

Johnny said:


> It's thankfully deeply imbedded in music copyright laws, that you cannot copyright a harmony (not even factoring in textural changes that you will be making) otherwise you would be prohibiting the human race from creating anything new. Anyone can use a chord progression, and just like you cannot by sample law, (if you read fine print) just hold down a single loop in Storm Drum, and sell the loop as your own without being required to layer in at least one more sample in to actually make it your own? I am sure the same would go for Hollywood Orchestrator. I hear zero melodic lines in the orchestrations EW is offering- much like Symphobia. This is leaving the melodic content and textural changes that you will make, to be the copyright passing factor that will make each composition your own : ) = all is good in court: )



Take that Superman preset (since it's the most obvious of them). Would someone be able to use that exact same rhythm with the same chord progression under copyright law?


----------



## Trax

Lazer42 said:


> Take that Superman preset (since it's the most obvious of them). Would someone be able to use that exact same rhythm with the same chord progression under copyright law?



Yes. Just add a tsk. 
Ding ding ding ding-a ding ding tsk


----------



## gamma-ut

Lazer42 said:


> Take that Superman preset (since it's the most obvious of them). Would someone be able to use that exact same rhythm with the same chord progression under copyright law?


What music director or other professional buyer of music is going to accept it? "Why have you done a crappy rip of the Superman theme? Is this a joke?"

Maybe it might get through if it's the CEO's offspring who got prevailed upon for doing the music for the corporate video to accompany the rollout of the ED209 Urban Pacification Solution. But even then, it's probably only going as far as the court of public opinion (which will not be kind).

Thanks to our robot overlords, it might well get deleted by YouTube's music-similarity algorithms in a matter of minutes.


----------



## Evans

gamma-ut said:


> What music director or other professional buyer of music is going to accept it? "Why have you done a crappy rip of the Superman theme? Is this a joke?"


I imagine if people think of the Orchestrator as less used by someone writing for a TV show or console video game and more like something that may be used for a slew of cheap tower defense mobile games or rip-off card battle games, then it's easy to see this scenario falling through the cracks.

A couple of months of Composer Cloud and Reaper, and someone can hammer through a lot of bounces that they can use for years.


----------



## gamma-ut

Evans said:


> I imagine if people think of the Orchestrator as less used by someone writing for a TV show or console video game and more like something that may be used for a slew of cheap tower defense mobile games or rip-off card battle games, then it's easy to see this scenario falling through the cracks.
> 
> A couple of months of Composer Cloud and Reaper, and someone can hammer through a lot of bounces that they can use for years.


Thanks to the miracle of MIDI, these items of media are not exactly bastions of original content right now. Someone was pointing out here just the other day how the guts of a Lady Gaga tune (IIRC) wound up on one and it's far from clear that it was licensed.

The YouTube algorithms when they try to upload the video demoes might, however, convince them to use another inexpensive source.


----------



## Toecutter

In 2 days pre-order deal is over, months after the "release" and no sign of a walkthrough... @Quantum Leap you gave up on us? I thought you were going to present HOOPUS in action.


----------



## Lazer42

gamma-ut said:


> What music director or other professional buyer of music is going to accept it? "Why have you done a crappy rip of the Superman theme? Is this a joke?"
> 
> Maybe it might get through if it's the CEO's offspring who got prevailed upon for doing the music for the corporate video to accompany the rollout of the ED209 Urban Pacification Solution. But even then, it's probably only going as far as the court of public opinion (which will not be kind).
> 
> Thanks to our robot overlords, it might well get deleted by YouTube's music-similarity algorithms in a matter of minutes.



You're probably right, at least when it comes to major studio works in the west. I can definitely see it, as Evans noted, showing up in a lot of low quality stuff, which already happens all the time, as you noted.

But the thing is - and I wonder how many who have been debating with me have realized this - I am not concerned or critical of this stuff almost *at all* from the standpoint of what kind of professional success it will yield. I think the answer to that is, as you've suggested, "not much."

I'm thinking much, much more about the more fundamental aspect of the impact on individual musicality for musicality's sake. I am thinking of what it will mean for the creativity of people from professionals to hobbyists to beginners. I'm thinking not of how much money people will make or how much notoriety they'll get, but of what it will mean for the personal musical accomplishment of people who abuse this stuff. 

My beginning in music was when this guy came to my school when I was 9 or 10 and played the piano and did this presentation about Scott Joplin. I thought it was interesting and at home we had this "best film music of the decade" book that had Joplin music from The Sting in it and started teaching myself to play it. I got pretty good at it and at playing in general - but I never took real lessons or learned the right fingerings and techniques. A few times they tried to get me real lessons to learn this stuff but I just coasted through using what I had taught myself because it was *good enough* to get by and it was, more importantly, *easy* compared to learning things right.

To this day, I can really impress the average person on the piano, but real music people know my weakness and more importantly *I* know how poor I really am. There is a very, very sudden and hard limit to what I can play. I can do a lot of stuff. Joplin stuff, Linus and Lucy, a lot of really impressive sounding versions of plenty of Broadway songs and film themes, etc. Chopin? More advanced film stuff (e.g., look up the standard piano arrangement of the Star Trek II theme). Forget about it. I can't do it and because of how long I trained myself on my "wrong way" of playing, trying to correct things is so big an undertaking that I just can't do it at this stage of life.

That's maybe an imperfect but general idea of what I'm thinking about here. We are by nature very inclined to the easy way out, even when we know what long term impoverishment the easy way can yield, and all the more when we aren't. I am not worried about Hans Zimmer being replaced by people using John Williams or (ha) Hans Zimmer riffs from EW software. That's laughable. I AM worried about how many people take the "easy way" because of this kind of tool and wind up never becoming what they could have been. What if Zimmer had had this when he was younger and just getting started and he never really learned all the things that's made him him as a result? 

What great composer will we never experience because that person's growth is stunted by "the easy way" so they never become what they could have?


----------



## jneebz

This thread is a stellar cure for insomnia.


----------



## bvaughn0402

I have pre-purchased it ... but there really isn't reason to not offer this upgrade price for a while after launch. In fact, I don't really understand why more companies don't offer a "forever" discount for loyal customers.


----------



## Toecutter

Lazer42 said:


> You're probably right, at least when it comes to major studio works in the west. I can definitely see it, as Evans noted, showing up in a lot of low quality stuff, which already happens all the time, as you noted.
> 
> But the thing is - and I wonder how many who have been debating with me have realized this - I am not concerned or critical of this stuff almost *at all* from the standpoint of what kind of professional success it will yield. I think the answer to that is, as you've suggested, "not much."
> 
> I'm thinking much, much more about the more fundamental aspect of the impact on individual musicality for musicality's sake. I am thinking of what it will mean for the creativity of people from professionals to hobbyists to beginners. I'm thinking not of how much money people will make or how much notoriety they'll get, but of what it will mean for the personal musical accomplishment of people who abuse this stuff.
> 
> My beginning in music was when this guy came to my school when I was 9 or 10 and played the piano and did this presentation about Scott Joplin. I thought it was interesting and at home we had this "best film music of the decade" book that had Joplin music from The Sting in it and started teaching myself to play it. I got pretty good at it and at playing in general - but I never took real lessons or learned the right fingerings and techniques. A few times they tried to get me real lessons to learn this stuff but I just coasted through using what I had taught myself because it was *good enough* to get by and it was, more importantly, *easy* compared to learning things right.
> 
> To this day, I can really impress the average person on the piano, but real music people know my weakness and more importantly *I* know how poor I really am. There is a very, very sudden and hard limit to what I can play. I can do a lot of stuff. Joplin stuff, Linus and Lucy, a lot of really impressive sounding versions of plenty of Broadway songs and film themes, etc. Chopin? More advanced film stuff (e.g., look up the standard piano arrangement of the Star Trek II theme). Forget about it. I can't do it and because of how long I trained myself on my "wrong way" of playing, trying to correct things is so big an undertaking that I just can't do it at this stage of life.
> 
> That's maybe an imperfect but general idea of what I'm thinking about here. We are by nature very inclined to the easy way out, even when we know what long term impoverishment the easy way can yield, and all the more when we aren't. I am not worried about Hans Zimmer being replaced by people using John Williams or (ha) Hans Zimmer riffs from EW software. That's laughable. I AM worried about how many people take the "easy way" because of this kind of tool and wind up never becoming what they could have been. What if Zimmer had had this when he was younger and just getting started and he never really learned all the things that's made him him as a result?
> 
> What great composer will we never experience because that person's growth is stunted by "the easy way" so they never become what they could have?


This post should be pinned! Well done sir  Similar to Rick Beato's rant about Warner and the crap that gets regurgitated today, disposable forgettable music. There's a reason for it, low standards, only a few still care. Look at the replies here, people have no problem with a machine writing music for them as long as they are cashing in the money.

3:24


----------



## RightOnTime

Michael Antrum said:


> but with a pre-order that's the chance you take.


This is the part I take issue with. Pre-order discounts are anti-consumer, plain and simple. 

Absolutely no reason anyone should have to gamble their money on a product of unknown quality, sight unseen. If EW have faith in the quality of their product, they shouldn't have to resort to pressure sales tactics. Have a launch discount for the first month so people can test it with Composer Cloud.

Sample libraries are the most anti-consumer field of business I've ever come across, where you can easily spend £500+ on a product with no opportunity to refund or resell (even when they use restrictive copy protection like ilok). Would love to see the EU smack some sense into the industry to be honest.


----------



## Trash Panda

Chaosmod said:


> That just makes them sound mad. Wolfgangery? Wolfgangism?


Wolfgangbang? I’ll see myself out. Sorry, @Mike Greene


----------



## Noeticus

Toecutter said:


> In 2 days pre-order deal is over, months after the "release" and no sign of a walkthrough... @Quantum Leap you gave up on us? I thought you were going to present HOOPUS in action.


Where does it say on their site when the pre-order deal ends?


----------



## Tremendouz

Noeticus said:


> Where does it say on their site when the pre-order deal ends?


I would imagine preorder deal ends when the product releases which is April 20th. Otherwise it'd be called introductory price or something


----------



## VSriHarsha

Thanks @dzilizzi !


----------



## Trash Panda

Toecutter said:


> In 2 days pre-order deal is over, months after the "release" and no sign of a walkthrough... @Quantum Leap you gave up on us? I thought you were going to present HOOPUS in action.


Be nice to Nick. This whole thing is so far beneath him, it’s not fair to drag him into it. As he told us earlier in this thread, he’s a very important, very busy man who don’t have time for such minor trifles as Opus.


----------



## Toecutter

Noeticus said:


> Where does it say on their site when the pre-order deal ends?


Many many many many many pages ago I posted a photo of support saying that the price would $100 after the 20th. We are looking at $600 introductory price.


----------



## BasariStudios

LOL at this whole thing.


----------



## Toecutter

Trash Panda said:


> Be nice to Nick. This whole thing is so far beneath him, it’s not fair to drag him into it. As he told us earlier in this thread, he’s a very important, very busy man who don’t have time for such minor trifles as Opus.


Point taken, I'm sorry and you are right. I got confused about the whole "Produced by Doug Rogers and Nick Phoenix" spammed by the marketing staff. And the pledge to do a walkthrough himself months ago. 

I also thought that someone who has time to go to the salon and look fabulous for the video interviews also has time to hit the record button and browse through the new instruments? How hard can it be to show the library you envisioned and produced? Takes less time than heating a soup XD


----------



## dpasdernick

If you can put one finger on a keyboard and produce a song that people love I salute you. I have 10 fingers and can barely squeeze out an Am chord on a good day. It ain’t the tool boys, it’s the end product.


----------



## Noeticus

Toecutter said:


> Many many many many many pages ago I posted a photo of support saying that the price would $100 after the 20th. We are looking at $600 introductory price.


Oh, so their site does not give the details after all. How odd.


----------



## SupremeFist

We're all understandably getting hung up on the Superman example but yeah I think that's more in the realm of a cool demo of concept that no one would ever get away with actually using; what's arguably more interesting are all the different building blocks in the orchestrator rather than the all-in-one presets. I can envisage those being actually useful tools on a tight deadline.


----------



## Noeticus

I am, by pure chance, an expert at spending my own money, and I must say that the "pre-order" upgrade price does not sit well.

Indeed, I am a bit put off.


----------



## Batwaffel

I've decided I'm holding off. If EastWest can't be bothered putting out proper walkthroughs of all the features of their new flagship product, I can't be bothered giving them money. It's really sad when I've seen more in-depth walkthroughs and presentations for bloody Omnisphere and Kontakt libraries than we've seen for OPUS. Raises more than a few red flags to me that A: They don't care about the product as much as their marketing would have people believe or B: They are hiding something and want people to spend their money before seeing what that something is. I'm leaning more towards A but I feel there may also be some truth to B. I also think that the next few months will end up being that the purchases will end up being glorified beta testers for a product that needed more testing done.

If it does work well, I'll grab it when it hits their inevitable sale chain in a few months. If it doesn't hit sales, welp, I'll find something else to use since they aren't the only players in the game.


----------



## j0fer

IMHO What it appears to be is a desired shift towards a subscription revenue model. Businesses (including my own) are increasingly seeing benefits of consistent, predictable, period-of-time revenue than intermittent, bursty, point-in-time spends. With that in mind, just saying "ok, we aren't selling libraries anymore, just subscriptions", doesn't work well for a transition plan. Instead, the incentives are geared towards it being more beneficial for subscribers.


----------



## cqd

j0fer said:


> IMHO What it appears to be is a desired shift towards a subscription revenue model. Businesses (including my own) are increasingly seeing benefits of consistent, predictable, period-of-time revenue than intermittent, bursty, point-in-time spends. With that in mind, just saying "ok, we aren't selling libraries anymore, just subscriptions", doesn't work well for a transition plan. Instead, the incentives are geared towards it being more beneficial for subscribers.


Yes and no..
I think overall in the sample library market HO has been an absolute bargain for a good while..and even with this "ridiculously expensive" upgrade/expansion still only hits mid teir price wise..


----------



## j0fer

cqd said:


> Yes and no..
> I think overall in the sample library market HO has been an absolute bargain for a good while..and even with this "ridiculously expensive" upgrade/expansion still only hits mid their price wise..


It's possible I'm missing your point, so I'll keep that in mind. If you're trying to change your revenue model (and again, that is my own supposition) - comparison to other vendors doesn't matter. If a business wants you to buy their blue widget instead of the red one that has been the historical best seller, they'll discount the blue one. Know what I mean?


----------



## cqd

j0fer said:


> It's possible I'm missing your point, so I'll keep that in mind. If you're trying to change your revenue model (and again, that is my own supposition) - comparison to other vendors doesn't matter. If a business wants you to buy their blue widget instead of the red one that has been the historical best seller, they'll discount the blue one. Know what I mean?


Yeah, but having HO so cheap for so long would imply they're not particularly pushing people to subscription?..


----------



## j0fer

Good point. They've been incentivizing outright sales with all the library discounts and stuff. You're right.


----------



## j0fer

Yes, kids, back in my day before the Internet, we had these things called: 'discourse', 'debate', 'respectful concession'. I know they're alien.


----------



## Michael Antrum

If there was ever a time for East West to try and 'force' their customers to a subscription model, the release of OPUS would have been it.

Instead, they continue to offer both licensing schemes to the customer, and whatever else you think of East West, I commend them for it.


----------



## Johnny

Lazer42 said:


> Take that Superman preset (since it's the most obvious of them). Would someone be able to use that exact same rhythm with the same chord progression under copyright law?


You totally can!!! Because it's just 4th Chords, ascending stacking of 4ths  And if actually had to go to court? For any reason over the "Superman notes"? Hands downs it's not exactly the same texture/instrumentation as the Williams score or EW would get in trouble too- being note for note straight off the superman score and into orchestrator. And again, you would have to simply hold down that patch, bounce to disk and try to sell that patch to make people angry. And it's in all sample library terms, that you have to layer more than one instrument track over top of their patches or commercial selling is prohibited. (That's essentially the break down of legality to any sample owner) You must make it your own in order to re-sell or profit commercial success. (Also to avoid lawsuits  Or wait another 10 years and then 50 years... And all Williams music will all be public domain anyways : ) (Oof!!! That's morbid talk right there... Sorry...)


----------



## Lazer42

Johnny said:


> You totally can!!! Because it's just 4th Chords, ascending stacking of 4ths  And if actually had to go to court? For any reason over the "Superman notes"? Hands downs it's not exactly the same texture/instrumentation as the Williams score or EW would get in trouble too- being note for note straight off the superman score and into orchestrator. And again, you would have to simply hold down that patch, bounce to disk and try to sell that patch to make people angry. And it's in all sample library terms, that you have to layer more than one instrument track over top of their patches or commercial selling is prohibited. (That's essentially the break down of legality to any sample owner) You must make it your own in order to re-sell or profit commercial success. (Also to avoid lawsuits  Or wait another 10 years and then 50 years... And all Williams music will all be public domain anyways : ) (Oof!!! That's morbid talk right there... Sorry...)



Clarify what you mean about layering more than one instrument over the patches. Does this mean that if one wrote a piece using only HWO, one could not sell the track?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Lazer42 said:


> Clarify what you mean about layering more than one instrument over the patches. Does this mean that if one wrote a piece using only HWO, one could not sell the track?


I think you’re making it more complicated than it actually is. Let’s say you moved that Superman sequence up a half step, then added a simple brass melody over top, voila!
But let’s say you use a stormdrum loop on its own (naked) and called it “Opus Soup” by Lazer. Then, you would not be following the EULA agreement.


----------



## Johnny

Lazer42 said:


> Clarify what you mean about layering more than one instrument over the patches. Does this mean that if one wrote a piece using only HWO, one could not sell the track?


No, it simply means, that in the terms of your sample library agreement, that of which you agree to upon purchasing any library, if you weed down to the binary terms of the agreement, they all basically to some extent state: you are not allowed to hold down a patch and re-sell the samples towards any form of commercial use. You basically have to alter your sample in any way, shape or form by adding another layer is all it really means... If I were to hold down a Symphobia Multi, and print to disk and sell the patch?! I'm essentially re-selling Symphobia's library in raw wav format... But if I add a Storm Drum 2 Taiko hit?! Or anything at all, it is no longer a Symphobia sample once I've re-bounced it to wav! That being said, this is only for commercial T.V/Movie/Game licensing. You cannot add a Storm Drum 2 Hit over top, and merely re-sell your wav as another commercial sample library or you will lose in court 100%. So the rules slightly differ for commercial licensing use vs commercial re-sell use.


----------



## Johnny

Johnny said:


> No, it simply means, that in the terms of your sample library agreement, that of which you agree to upon purchasing any library, if you weed down to the binary terms of the agreement, they all basically to some extent state: you are not allowed to hold down a patch and re-sell the samples towards any form of commercial use. You basically have to alter your sample in any way, shape or form by adding another layer is all it really means... If I were to hold down a Symphobia Multi, and print to disk and sell the patch?! I'm essentially re-selling Symphobia's library in raw wav format... But if I add a Storm Drum 2 Taiko hit?! Or anything at all, it is no longer a Symphobia sample once I've re-bounced it to wav! That being said, this is only for commercial T.V/Movie/Game licensing. You cannot add a Storm Drum 2 Hit over top, and merely re-sell your wav as another commercial sample library or you will lose in court 100%. So the rules slightly differ for commercial licensing use vs commercial re-sell use.


Basically: never purchase a library and merely hold down one key, of one patch only, and hope to not get sued later down the road in some capacity  Use your better judgement and make music with the patch- use modulation or add another layer! That's not to say, you can't have a moment in your composition with only one patch! To be clear, I have many a track where for one instance in my composition it might only be CineOrch for 2 bars; that's totally cool apparently! Just don't bounce only one CineOrch patch for 3mins and expect that you deserve 100% of the revenue that that one patch created... You might be offending the developer based on their terms of licensing music using their samples. And if you are un-sure?! Because you made one song of one patch only, using say Damage 2, and you just held down one note using a Damage groove with one finger and called it your own?!?! (Not sure why you would do this but just in the event) Reach out to Heavyocity and ask them if that's ok?!? Never hurts! Better safe than sorry


----------



## cqd

They're taking the piss a bit in fairness with the videos..


----------



## gst98

JXL didn’t have videos before pre order if I recall.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, but did they not kind of give the impression there would be two more before Tuesday?..

What time should it be ready to download on the day do ye reckon?..


----------



## chocobitz825

M


cqd said:


> Yeah, but did they not kind of give the impression there would be two more before Tuesday?..
> 
> What time should it be ready to download on the day do ye reckon?..


Maybe they made videos that don’t address any of the concerns voiced by people on forums. People still seemed to have a lot of questions after the orchestrator video and given how much of a thing this has turned into, perhaps the videos they had were more marketing focused rather than function focused.

maybe just best to let it go


----------



## Chungus

gst98 said:


> JXL didn’t have videos before pre order if I recall.


OT does it all the time. But, they're also rightly criticised for it. Certainly, that another is doing it doesn't make it a good practice.


----------



## gst98

Chungus said:


> OT does it all the time. But, they're also rightly criticised for it. Certainly, that another is doing it doesn't make it a good practice.



Had a much tamer repose than it is getting here. Which is strange because with JXL we heard nothing. Here we have had several promos and a demo track


----------



## Trax

Haters. This is the future:


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

szczaw said:


> He's battling the concept of it.


Yes, it is rather difficult to reason through the ontological framework of; to OPUS or to consider it HOOPLUS

'Great Philosophical ramifications with this one, there are'


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Johnny said:


> Hands downs it's not exactly the same


Was this an unintentional pun against Mr Zimmer?


Hans down, Williams up or something like that


----------



## Chaosmod

I apologize if I've offended anyone with my commentary. 

I am a technologist, and I embrace the advent of technology, as aides to creation. 

I honestly don't understand the resistance... did pen and paper composers resist computer and MIDI as vehemently as some resist new plugins or a new workflow aid like Orchestrator? 

I felt liberated by the arrival of computers and MIDI. They've enabled me to continue composing after two strokes left me unable to write very legibly. Maybe that has something to do with why I'm so passionate about Orchestrator. 

Will using it make me "less than" other composers? I guess it depends on my success with it, and my ability to obfuscate it in my compositions. 

I may be in the sunset of my forgettable career as a composer, but damn it I'm not going to quit trying!


----------



## Chaosmod

Michael Antrum said:


> If there was ever a time for East West to try and 'force' their customers to a subscription model, the release of OPUS would have been it.


They are, it's just not what we expected.

"Free to Composer Cloud [X, +] customers"..... or you buy a pricey upgrade.


----------



## robgb

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Which developers offer a demo? VSL doesn't count, because they give you a refund if you're unhappy after 30 days, plus you need to shell out for the dongle if you don't have one.


I said plugin developers, not sample library developers. That's my complaint. If you want to try out an EQ, a compressor, etc., plugin developers will usually have a demo you can try out for 7, 10, 30 days or whatever. I don't see why sample library developers who have their own player can't do this as well. If they don't have enough confidence in their product to offer a time-limited demo, why should we have confidence in it?


----------



## chocobitz825

robgb said:


> I said plugin developers, not sample library developers. That's my complaint. If you want to try out an EQ, a compressor, etc., plugin developers will usually have a demo you can try out for 7, 10, 30 days or whatever. I don't see why sample library developers who have their own player can't do this as well. If they don't have enough confidence in their product to offer a time-limited demo, why should we have confidence in it?


Licensing agreements maybe?


----------



## Trash Panda

gst98 said:


> Had a much tamer repose than it is getting here. Which is strange because with JXL we heard nothing. Here we have had several promos and a demo track


I don’t think anyone from OT/JXL or tangentially related to the project came here to belittle the forum users either.


----------



## MauroPantin

I seem to remember that JXL Brass had intro pricing, not pre-order pricing. You had the option of waiting for a while for people to try it out and express their thoughts, or for demos by those users or OT themselves after it was released


----------



## Russell Anderson

robgb said:


> I said plugin developers, not sample library developers. That's my complaint. If you want to try out an EQ, a compressor, etc., plugin developers will usually have a demo you can try out for 7, 10, 30 days or whatever. I don't see why sample library developers who have their own player can't do this as well. If they don't have enough confidence in their product to offer a time-limited demo, why should we have confidence in it?


because samples have a higher probability of just being re-sampled and developers don't want to take the risk that people will demo their product, rip all the samples and then use it as their own. That's my understanding of it. Hence Performance Samples offering the violin taster for Vista vs the entire library, but... Frankly the validity of the above, I'm not sure of. It could just be for the same reason cashiers don't get tips but waiters do, just part of library development culture. I agree that demos would be by far the best way to shop for these things; you just don't know how it's going to work for you until you've dropped an unrefundable $300-800 on it. Few walkthroughs/demos can show you what you want to know, better to just get it under your fingers.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

It’s a LOT cheaper for a developer to allow demo downloads of a plug-in than an entire sample library, especially as large as the ones nowadays are (hundreds of gigs). They could but that cost is going somewhere and it’ll be for paying customers. At some point, maybe it’ll be like a $1 and they’ll start allowing it. Though if 10k people just try it and don’t buy, that’s still $10k that needs to be covered. It also opens up the risk factor for piracy since there’s no entry cost for a hacker to try and break the protection.


----------



## robgb

These all sound like developer excuses to me, but I guess as long as people are willing to buy libraries this way (as if we have a choice), and they're making money with this model, it isn't going to change. I think it's amazing that we can't return or resell libraries, yet we still drop hundreds on them. Developers must be laughing at idiots like us.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

robgb said:


> I said plugin developers, not sample library developers. That's my complaint. If you want to try out an EQ, a compressor, etc., plugin developers will usually have a demo you can try out for 7, 10, 30 days or whatever. I don't see why sample library developers who have their own player can't do this as well. If they don't have enough confidence in their product to offer a time-limited demo, why should we have confidence in it?


What @ALittleNightMusic said - a 4GB plugin (being hugely generous here on behalf of T-Racks 5) vs almost 1TB for OPUS is a little different on the server front in terms of cost.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

robgb said:


> These all sound like developer excuses to me, but I guess as long as people are willing to buy libraries this way (as if we have a choice), and they're making money with this model, it isn't going to change. I think it's amazing that we can't return or resell libraries, yet we still drop hundreds on them. Developers must be laughing at idiots like us.


Sounds like you don’t understand how technology or economics work. Speak for yourself when using the term idiot.


----------



## Lazer42

Chaosmod said:


> I apologize if I've offended anyone with my commentary.
> 
> I am a technologist, and I embrace the advent of technology, as aides to creation.
> 
> I honestly don't understand the resistance... did pen and paper composers resist computer and MIDI as vehemently as some resist new plugins or a new workflow aid like Orchestrator?
> 
> I felt liberated by the arrival of computers and MIDI. They've enabled me to continue composing after two strokes left me unable to write very legibly. Maybe that has something to do with why I'm so passionate about Orchestrator.
> 
> Will using it make me "less than" other composers? I guess it depends on my success with it, and my ability to obfuscate it in my compositions.
> 
> I may be in the sunset of my forgettable career as a composer, but damn it I'm not going to quit trying!


I think there is a lot we can agree on in this post. I very much share your view of technology and I often get into debates with people who resist new technology. In some ways your comparison to how composers of the past may have reacted to the advent of MIDI reminds me of the example I often raise when I get into discussions with people who think social media is anti-social because people spend time on it instead of talking to the people in the room: I ask how it's any different from a train car 50 years ago full of people reading newspapers while ignoring everyone else, or the stereotypical teenager from the 70s or 80s who spent hours on the landline phone.

To be clear, I have no problem with Orchestrator as a workflow aid. In complete honesty it's definitely not something I'm personally interested in, because I very much prefer to write music out in the way that musicians actually play it. As such, I prefer to use notation software and all the difficulties that come with getting a good sound out of that over how much easier it would be to write in a DAW. It's just the way I like to work, but I have no problem with anyone else using this kind of workflow aid. In particular, if it can be a help to someone like you who has unique difficulties with scoring things in a more "traditional" way, all the better. 

My only and singular issue is with the _presets_, whether we are talking about ones which imitate or are based on famous works or whether we're talking about ones which were made based off of the whims of somebody in a cubicle at EW. To me, using a preset like that isn't an aid to creation, but something which to a certain degree _prevents _creation, since the user is starting with something that's already been created. Literally everything else about the product I am fine with, even if not tremendously interested. If the product were identical but shipped without presets, or _even if it shipped with the same presets but called them "demos" instead of presets_, I likely wouldn't have had a thing to say about it.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lazer42 said:


> I think there is a lot we can agree on in this post. I very much share your view of technology and I often get into debates with people who resist new technology. In some ways your comparison to how composers of the past may have reacted to the advent of MIDI reminds me of the example I often raise when I get into discussions with people who think social media is anti-social because people spend time on it instead of talking to the people in the room: I ask how it's any different from a train car 50 years ago full of people reading newspapers while ignoring everyone else, or the stereotypical teenager from the 70s or 80s who spent hours on the landline phone.
> 
> To be clear, I have no problem with Orchestrator as a workflow aid. In complete honesty it's definitely not something I'm personally interested in, because I very much prefer to write music out in the way that musicians actually play it. As such, I prefer to use notation software and all the difficulties that come with getting a good sound out of that over how much easier it would be to write in a DAW. It's just the way I like to work, but I have no problem with anyone else using this kind of workflow aid. In particular, if it can be a help to someone like you who has unique difficulties with scoring things in a more "traditional" way, all the better.
> 
> My only and singular issue is with the _presets_, whether we are talking about ones which imitate or are based on famous works or whether we're talking about ones which were made based off of the whims of somebody in a cubicle at EW. To me, using a preset like that isn't an aid to creation, but something which to a certain degree _prevents _creation, since the user is starting with something that's already been created. Literally everything else about the product I am fine with, even if not tremendously interested. If the product were identical but shipped without presets, or _even if it shipped with the same presets but called them "demos" instead of presets_, I likely wouldn't have had a thing to say about it.


You must really look down on sampling. Which by the way, Mozart and Beethoven did too.


----------



## chocobitz825

robgb said:


> These all sound like developer excuses to me, but I guess as long as people are willing to buy libraries this way (as if we have a choice), and they're making money with this model, it isn't going to change. I think it's amazing that we can't return or resell libraries, yet we still drop hundreds on them. Developers must be laughing at idiots like us.


what libraries have you bought that were so bad? honestly curious. I have quite a few plugins I no longer use..but selling them seems like more of a hassle and likely wouldn't even return much value at what people are asking for used software...I'm not particularly bothered by the lack of resale because i cant think of anything that was so worthless that I couldn't use it...


----------



## reids

Wow, Eastwest really going to wait until the final hours during the preorder to post a walkthrough video? I have no use or care for the Orchestrator app because its about the instruments, samples, and articulations. I still don't know what new content there really is nor would I preorder blindly like they want us to do since nothing about the content is being shown yet. Lol, they gonna give you 2 hours or less to make a decision. Subtract another 20 minutes after you watch the first actual walkthrough video as the clock ticks down. Haha. Shady.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

reids said:


> Wow, Eastwest really going to wait until the final hours during the preorder to post a walkthrough video? I have no use or care for the Orchestrator app because its about the instruments, samples, and articulations. I still don't know what new content there really is nor would I preorder blindly like they want us to do since nothing about the content is being shown yet. Lol, they gonna give you 2 hours or less to make a decision. Subtract another 20 minutes after you watch the first actual walkthrough video as the clock ticks down. Haha. Shady.


Given the hints, I believe the next video may be a more detailed Orchestrator-related one, not one around the OPUS player functionality or the newly recorded sections. Those may come after the 20th. Just my guess though based on comments EW support has left.


----------



## Lazer42

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You must really look down on sampling. Which by the way, Mozart and Beethoven did too.


Are you talking about the practice of taking a small section of another song and putting it into your song (I think rap songs are particularly known for this)? I think that can be okay depending on how you do it. There's a difference between doing it in a way which is a clear allusion to the original work and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I've done it myself once or twice. Heck, the totally normal inclusion of the Star Trek opening fanfare or flashes of the Star Wars theme in scores written by people other than Alexander Courage or John Williams for films or shows in those franchises is kindof an example of this.

That's different, though, from trying to take a portion of another work and put it into yours in a way that hides it and tries to make the whole thing seem entirely original or which takes another work as a foundation for your entire piece so that your whole thing is basically a variation on someone else's work.

That said, even doing something like that can be useful in _particular contexts. _For example, I'd venture to say that most people haven't realized that the theme song for SeaQuest DSV seems to be a kind of musical "pun" on the Star Wars theme. It's got the same melody for the first five notes and the same chord progression, and then what follows is basically a _downward _moving version of what has more of an _upward _motion in the Star Wars theme. These are science fiction stories with ships and military and all that, but Star Wars. Space. Up. SeaQuest. Underwater. Down. The music seems to point to that.

I wonder if it was intentional. If it was, I think that's clever, and certainly not plagiarism or bad in any way - but it's about the context. If that same theme had been written for, say, another outer space property? I'd call that at least pretty questionable in an instant, because it's really pretty close and without the context of Space=Up vs. Water=Down thing, it would come across to me as someone taking the Star Wars theme and changing an interval or two.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, Mozart had an mpc1 back in the day..


----------



## NoamL

Chaosmod said:


> I honestly don't understand the resistance... did pen and paper composers resist computer and MIDI as vehemently as some resist new plugins or a new workflow aid like Orchestrator?


Yes, and they were right...

computer and MIDI offer some great advantages but they also steer us all to write in a certain way, and that has surfaced over time.


----------



## chocobitz825

NoamL said:


> Yes, and they were right...
> 
> computer and MIDI offer some great advantages but they also steer us all to write in a certain way, and that has surfaced over time.


so.....was it worth it?.....


----------



## Mike Fox

Johnny said:


> Basically: never purchase a library and merely hold down one key, of one patch only, and hope to not get sued later down the road in some capacity


I’m so screwed.


----------



## MauroPantin

NoamL said:


> Yes, and they were right...
> 
> computer and MIDI offer some great advantages but they also steer us all to write in a certain way, and that has surfaced over time.


Quoting for emphasis. The tools available to us and the context in which we employ them fundamentally alter how we write.

There is a reason spiccato ostinati and all kinds of ethnic percussion are omnipresent today and considered a staple of modern film scoring, almost to the point of cliché. Those were the first things that sounded great in the sample world, and the ones that were easier to handle for computers with limited RAM.

The "package deal" studios started using to pay composers in the mid-90's or early 2000 meant that our industry had to cut costs to make ends meet and samples came to the rescue. And even if not under package deal, for 99% of composers it is now absolutely essential to create mockups before getting a chance to record (if they want to stay competitive, that is).

Considering all that, imagining one is in the early 2000. If you have to use samples to get the job done and the selection of virtual instruments that sound great is skewed a certain way, you get a shift in the film music industry as a whole.

Fortunately, that is changing. We get better and better VI's every year. Hopefully, the inclination to write and orchestrate for certain things (woodwinds especially, people just mainly use it as a texture or a double and they can do so much more, it's freaking ridiculous) is not completely gone.


----------



## chocobitz825

MauroPantin said:


> Quoting for emphasis. The tools available to us and the context in which we employ them fundamentally alter how we write.
> 
> There is a reason spiccato ostinati and all kinds of ethnic percussion are omnipresent today and considered a staple of modern film scoring, almost to the point of cliché. Those were the first things that sounded great in the sample world, and the ones that were easier to handle for computers with limited RAM.
> 
> The "package deal" studios started using to pay composers in the mid-90's or early 2000 meant that our industry had to cut costs to make ends meet and samples came to the rescue. And even if not under package deal, for 99% of composers it is now absolutely essential to create mockups before getting a chance to record (if they want to stay competitive, that is).
> 
> Considering all that, imagining one is in the early 2000. If you have to use samples to get the job done and the selection of virtual instruments that sound great is skewed a certain way, you get a shift in the film music industry as a whole.
> 
> Fortunately, that is changing. We get better and better VI's every year. Hopefully, the inclination to write and orchestrate for certain things (woodwinds especially, people just mainly use it as a texture or a double and they can do so much more, it's freaking ridiculous) is not completely gone.


kinda sounds like a defense of the trend followers rather than praise for the trendsetters... I mean..yeah tools available will change how writing is done, but that cant be used as a condemnation of the tech or the potential of that tech as some have been doing here. Before BWAHHHHMS were in every cinematic library, a creative person decided to use their tech and ideas in a unique way. Sure MIDI changed how people write, but creative minds elevated the tech and its potential. If I was to suggest a takeaway, it'd be, don't be boring with the tech you have. Push it to its limits and try something new.


----------



## MauroPantin

chocobitz825 said:


> kinda sounds like a defense of the trend followers rather than praise for the trendsetters... I mean..yeah tools available will change how writing is done, but that cant be used as a condemnation of the tech or the potential of that tech as some have been doing here. Before BWAHHHHMS were in every cinematic library, a creative person decided to use their tech and ideas in a unique way. Sure MIDI changed how people write, but creative minds elevated the tech and its potential. If I was to suggest a takeaway, it'd be, don't be boring with the tech you have. Push it to its limits and try something new.


Not a defense for anything. Also not a praise. Tech is agnostic. It's just a take on how things have evolved to this point, and the effect they have had on all of us. 

I do wonder if woodwinds have not been written so much for because they are no longer cool per-se, or because of exterior reasons that made them unpractical, and if is because of that now after so little exposure they are characterized as "old" and/or "uncool"? They are also the hardest ensemble to write for, so maybe that and the time pressures of the job? Again, not a hypothesis, just a question.


----------



## Jay Panikkar

Drats, looks like I missed all the drama! 

Anyway, I think I'll go for a 1-month subscription solely to 'demo' HOOPUS. I'd be very surprised if EW actually fixed any of the sample-specific issues in the original collection.

We'll know soon enough.


----------



## Chaosmod

NoamL said:


> Yes, and they were right...
> 
> computer and MIDI offer some great advantages but they also steer us all to write in a certain way, and that has surfaced over time.


I disagree that "they were right."


cqd said:


> Yeah, Mozart had an mpc1 back in the day..


But the real question is, did he prefer vinyl over CDs for the "analog vibes?"


----------



## robgb

Lewis Emblack said:


> What @ALittleNightMusic said - a 4GB plugin (being hugely generous here on behalf of T-Racks 5) vs almost 1TB for OPUS is a little different on the server front in terms of cost.


Seems to me that EW has the ability to provide a time limited trial of CC that would allow people to demo Opus.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

cqd said:


> Yeah, Mozart had an mpc1 back in the day..


I am pretty sure they spotted a DX7 in his study once as well
Or so a distant relative wrote in his memoirs


----------



## TCMQL1

robgb said:


> Seems to me that EW has the ability to provide a time limited trial of CC that would allow people to demo Opus.


The issue is it's not free to download things from servers. Companies would be paying by the gigabyte for every trial they offer, so there would have to be some cost-benefit analysis that goes along with it to ensure they're getting enough extra sales to offset the download cost, not to mention the cost of setting up this system and providing additional customer support for it. This is far less of an issue with smaller plugins, because their cost to download is very small. But unfortunately it's not so simple with huge sample libraries, where users may be downloading hundreds if not thousands of gigabytes of content from your servers for free, at your expense.

I imagine it's for this reason (at least in part) that even VSL isn't offering 30 day demos on their largest libraries, and if they are it's often for a limited time only - downloading ~500gb worth of content from a server for a single library (Synchron Strings I/Percussion/pianos) ain't cheap, especially when they may not even end up buying the library.

As much as I'd love for every company to offer trials for all of their libraries as a consumer, it's just not always feasible unfortunately. I actually wouldn't be surprised if EW made very little money from those who pay for a single month of CC at the current sale price as a trial, only to download everything in their catalogue and then never subscribe again lol.


----------



## gamma-ut

I had a quick gander at Azure's download pricing for its CDN. It's variable from around $0.08/GB for light use to $0.025/GB for someone chewing through 500TB+ per month. Splitting the difference between those two gives you a cost of around fifty bucks for a terabyte of content.









Pricing - Content Delivery Network (CDN) | Microsoft Azure


View detailed pricing for the Azure Content Delivery Network (CDN) cloud service. No upfront costs. Pay as you go. FREE trial.




azure.microsoft.com


----------



## Lewis Emblack

robgb said:


> Seems to me that EW has the ability to provide a time limited trial of CC that would allow people to demo Opus.


That is even worse - You still have to download everything to try it and there is 3TB of libraries. It seems like a good idea, and I admit I thought the same a few years ago when I first started out with VI's, but then I looked at server costs and it suddenly made sense. Yes, Spitfire give Discovery for free but it is less than 1GB and they obviously decided that juicy survey info was worth it. It is hardly comparable to the Core library though, same as LABS.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

TCMQL1 said:


> The issue is it's not free to download things from servers. Companies would be paying by the gigabyte for every trial they offer, so there would have to be some cost-benefit analysis that goes along with it to ensure they're getting enough extra sales to offset the download cost, not to mention the cost of setting up this system and providing additional customer support for it. This is far less of an issue with smaller plugins, because their cost to download is very small. But unfortunately it's not so simple with huge sample libraries, where users may be downloading hundreds if not thousands of gigabytes of content from your servers for free, at your expense.
> 
> I imagine it's for this reason (at least in part) that even VSL isn't offering 30 day demos on their largest libraries, and if they are it's often for a limited time only - downloading ~500gb worth of content from a server for a single library (Synchron Strings I/Percussion/pianos) ain't cheap, especially when they may not even end up buying the library.
> 
> As much as I'd love for every company to offer trials for all of their libraries as a consumer, it's just not always feasible unfortunately. I actually wouldn't be surprised if EW made very little money from those who pay for a single month of CC at the current sale price as a trial, only to download everything in their catalogue and then never subscribe again lol.


This! The 1-month CCX is the closest you will get to a free demo of any VI until running servers becomes dirt cheap.


----------



## chocobitz825

I just want to take this moment to say, subscriptions can be a good way to kill GAS.... with EW’s full offering and the amount of space it takes it becomes harder to justify buying more stuff. After I joined presonus’s subscription I basically killed off a lot of need for more instruments and effects.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

gamma-ut said:


> I had a quick gander at Azure's download pricing for its CDN. It's variable from around $0.08/GB for light use to $0.025/GB for someone chewing through 500TB+ per month. Splitting the difference between those two gives you a cost of around fifty bucks for a terabyte of content.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pricing - Content Delivery Network (CDN) | Microsoft Azure
> 
> 
> View detailed pricing for the Azure Content Delivery Network (CDN) cloud service. No upfront costs. Pay as you go. FREE trial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> azure.microsoft.com


So going off that the first 5/6 months of CC subscription is pretty much just paying off the cost to download it all 😳


----------



## gamma-ut

Lewis Emblack said:


> So going off that the first 5/6 months of CC subscription is pretty much just paying off the cost to download it all 😳


Possibly not that bad. Most CC subscribers are on Gold AIUI rather than Diamond, which is the real GB-hog, and they are maybe not "I'm downloading all this RIGHT NOW!" when they sign up. But, assuming EW is kinda mid-tier in terms of monthly bandwidth demand and Azure pricing isn't way above, the first couple of months don't see a lot of money going their way.

They've also got (apparently) on-demand download for Opus so that would probably save them a fair chunk of cash if people only grab samples for patches when they first use them. Though I can imagine many users deciding, if they're on uncapped connection, to go get it the full set "just in case".

But overall, yeah, if you're going to sign up for a month to trial HOOPUS and go no further, you may well be costing EW money.


----------



## Serge Pavkin




----------



## gamma-ut

Serge Pavkin said:


>


Will it turn out to still be a pre-order though? That’s the other question.


----------



## Serge Pavkin

gamma-ut said:


> Will it turn out to still be a pre-order though? That’s the other question.


Yes, and I hope the launch has not been postponed)


----------



## Johnny

Mike Fox said:


> I’m so screwed.


  ~ *One finger to fool* them all, *one finger* to blind them, *One finger* to license them all, and in the darkness sell them ~


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Serge Pavkin said:


>


Lol! I didn’t think they would reply to my comment.


----------



## Tremendouz

Johnny said:


> ~ *One finger to fool* them all, *one finger* to blind them, *One finger* to license them all, and in the darkness sell them ~


Three libraries for the hobbyists under the sky,
Seven for the professional composers in their halls of stone,
Nine for victims of G.A.S. doomed to die,
EastWest HOOPUS for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of VI-Control where false hopes lie ("The upgrade deal for existing customers will be good, right?")


----------



## ChazC

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Lol! I didn’t think they would reply to my comment.


Neither did I - they didn’t reply to mine! 😂


----------



## Kabraxis

Lewis Emblack said:


> This! The 1-month CCX is the closest you will get to a free demo of any VI until running servers becomes dirt cheap.


This is a semi-solved problem. Downloading a 600 GB library just for trying it out might be extravagant, but _streaming it_ is much less so. _Best Service has this Try-Sound service for more than 10 years_ where you connect to a remote PC, try any VST they offer and decide if it's worth or not yourself. Downside is a bit latency and less-than-ideal audio codec. But still, if it's just checking articulations and fuss and feathers (I assume that's most of want to see anyway), Try-Sound is cut out for it.


----------



## AndyP

Serge Pavkin said:


>


 ...Facebook ... Is this actually communicated somewhere officially by EW? Nooooo, I'm not going to get a Facebook account. 
It all feels like fetching debt ... Proactively, there is little or very hesitant.


----------



## rrichard63

Kabraxis said:


> This is a semi-solved problem. Downloading a 600 GB library just for trying it out might be extravagant, but _streaming it_ is much less so. _Best Service has this Try-Sound service for more than 10 years_ where you connect to a remote PC, try any VST they offer and decide if it's worth or not yourself. Downside is a bit latency and less-than-ideal audio codec. But still, if it's just checking articulations and fuss and feathers (I assume that's most of want to see anyway), Try-Sound is cut out for it.


I've been aware of Try-Sound for several years but never actually used it, in spite of buying several Best Service products during that time. I don't know why not. Maybe because I suspect that the codec would mostly defeat the purpose of critical listening. Maybe because I'm often slow to adopt innovations.


----------



## Toecutter

Serge Pavkin said:


> Yes, and I hope the launch has not been postponed)


Wanna bet? It's set to be released TOMORROW and no sign of a walkthrough. Something must be horribly wrong with Opus, I don't mind if that's the case, just say something! People would understand, we all want Opus to succeed. Now I don't know, they probably sold a good chunk of copies based on the expectation that the pre-order would end on the 20th 


EW has a bunch of amateurs running the show, that's all I can say at this point (not talking about Nick or Doug or the hard-working dudes/dudettes that spend sleepless nights trying to figure out this mess, wanna make that very clear)


----------



## cqd

Historically too though, there's only ever been one release video for any of their products, hasn't there?..

Yeah, this is different with the new player.. but still..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

This reminds me of the Hollywood Choirs release.


----------



## Trash Panda

Tremendouz said:


> Three libraries for the hobbyists under the sky,
> Seven for the professional composers in their halls of stone,
> Nine for victims of G.A.S. doomed to die,
> EastWest HOOPUS for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
> In the Land of VI-Control where false hopes lie ("The upgrade deal for existing customers will be good, right?")


Is there a VI-C hall of fame to immortalize exchanges like this? If not, there should be.


----------



## Guffy

Michael Antrum said:


> How disheartening it must be, as a developer, to put all this time, effort and money in to this update, and then to have your product described as 'Trash', before anyone has even got their hands on it.


I didn't describe it as trash, i said it might be (at least if you pay $500 for an upgrade expecting to get your money's worth), considering the release is tomorrow and they still havent showed us any of the new content (except the orchestrator which i have zero interest in).
I do sincerely hope they prove me wrong though, which they also might.

And also, one expense was saved.. they didnt bring back the talent of a certain T.B


----------



## Marsen

Saxer said:


> I have Sonusscore The Orchestra. It's fun to play with it but it gets boring rather fast. Probably more fun with better sounds.
> In real live I'd probably rarely use the presets. But it might be interesting to take some time to make a few own presets. Things that takes a lot of time and are rather boring like tonal and metal percussion textures beds, fast string arpeggios, woodwind dovetailing or harp comping. And maybe simple instrument combinations.


Isn´t the Orchestrator just a kind of expanded "The Orchestra" just with better sounds?
I get bored quiet fast from the "creative" output of this kind of machines.


----------



## robgb

Lewis Emblack said:


> That is even worse - You still have to download everything to try it and there is 3TB of libraries. It seems like a good idea, and I admit I thought the same a few years ago when I first started out with VI's, but then I looked at server costs and it suddenly made sense. Yes, Spitfire give Discovery for free but it is less than 1GB and they obviously decided that juicy survey info was worth it. It is hardly comparable to the Core library though, same as LABS.


How is it worse? How is it bad at all? When you sign up for CC, you only have to download the library you're interested in using. You don't have to download it all. And how, exactly, is that worse than paying $500 or more for a library you then discover you don't care for and can't return? What you're saying makes absolutely zero sense.


----------



## Nimrod7

I understand the complexity with Kontakt Libraries to implement trial licensing. It's hard to orchestrate "returns" since NI requires devs to pay a fee per license. Probably there will be large administration efforts to make this viable and probably why there is no investment.

However, EW uses iLok, and in iLok there is functionality to surrender a license in case you would like to return a product, or issue licenses with expiration dates baked in (trials).

I can't see a reason why they don't embrace returns or trials.


----------



## gamma-ut

Marsen said:


> Isn´t the Orchestrator just a kind of expanded "The Orchestra" just with better sounds?
> I get bored quiet fast from the "creative" output of this kind of machines.


The walkthroughs imply you get a somewhat more control over the voicing of individual lines and their sequences whereas TOC2 is basically three arpeggiator engines (with sequenced velocity over a number of steps) and two that do CC11 swells. However, there's clearly a trade off over how convenient that is when altering and prototyping sequences against each other versus just bunging the lines into the DAW's own timeline.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

robgb said:


> How is it worse? How is it bad at all? When you sign up for CC, you only have to download the library you're interested in using. You don't have to download it all. And how, exactly, is that worse than paying $500 or more for a library you then discover you don't care for and can't return? What you're saying makes absolutely zero sense.


It's even worse in terms of server cost being able to potentially download 3TB in comparison to just a single library. Basically you are saying that VI companies should pay for you to be able to demo their products, in the case of OPUS $50 and in the case of CC potentially up to $150 for you to do so. I'm not sure how that doesn't make sense.
As someone posted earlier, Best Service do something like what you are after, so once it has been perfected then maybe you will see others adopt it, but right now it costs $20 for a month "demo" of CC (which is much cheaper than the server costs) and that is the best you are going to get. Is it ideal that you can't demo for free? Of course not, and I 100% agree it would be helpful to be able to, but the reality is that it is not viable at present.


----------



## dzilizzi

Marsen said:


> Isn´t the Orchestrator just a kind of expanded "The Orchestra" just with better sounds?
> I get bored quiet fast from the "creative" output of this kind of machines.


It looks like it has a bit more going for it in that you can adjust the midi more. I don't think the Orchestra has all the options the orchestrator has.


----------



## SupremeFist

Kabraxis said:


> This is a semi-solved problem. Downloading a 600 GB library just for trying it out might be extravagant, but _streaming it_ is much less so. _Best Service has this Try-Sound service for more than 10 years_ where you connect to a remote PC, try any VST they offer and decide if it's worth or not yourself. Downside is a bit latency and less-than-ideal audio codec. But still, if it's just checking articulations and fuss and feathers (I assume that's most of want to see anyway), Try-Sound is cut out for it.


I just tried that today and it was unusable: the plugin kept crapping out and asking me to increase the latency and I was unable to play the VI for more than 5 seconds at a time. Great idea though!


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Jeremy Spencer said:


> This reminds me of the Hollywood Choirs release.


Sadly it is starting to look like that...

Delays and radio silence, but I hope we are wrong!


----------



## Trax

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Sadly it is starting to look like that...
> 
> Delays and radio silence, but I hope we are wrong!


What happened?


----------



## Lazer42

SupremeFist said:


> I just tried that today and it was unusable: the plugin kept crapping out and asking me to increase the latency and I was unable to play the VI for more than 5 seconds at a time. Great idea though!


A few years ago I used it and it was still pretty jumpy and tough to use, but you could at least get an idea of what the stuff sounded like. I tried it again this past fall and it was basically unusable for me.


----------



## Lazer42

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Sadly it is starting to look like that...
> 
> Delays and radio silence, but I hope we are wrong!


I would hope not! After the fiasco in February and the months that followed how do you possible go ahead and announce a release date a second time until you are literally all done and the product is ready to release _immediately_? If they set themselves up to even have the slightest chance of another delay after what already happened then I really can't fathom what is guiding their decision making process.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## gst98

Thomann has a similar system for trying out guitar pedals. The latency is much better than you would expect actually.


----------



## MauroPantin




----------



## dzilizzi

MauroPantin said:


>


Not even 11 am here in LA on the 19th. I'm hoping we hear something soon whether an extension on the presale price or a walkthrough.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

...so I'm guessing tomorrow will be the day they finally reveal that they always meant "fall 2021" instead of "fall 2020"?


----------



## MauroPantin

Imagine if the 20th release date was just an April Fools joke delivered late. It would be so on brand I wouldn't even be mad.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

dzilizzi said:


> Not even 11 am here in LA on the 19th. I'm hoping we hear something soon whether an extension on the presale price or a walkthrough.


Yes, they told me the price is extended to May 20.


----------



## alcorey

The latest from EW


----------



## Dex

Extending the discount offer for a month is the right thing to do. The price is still too high, but at least it's something.


----------



## Trash Panda

Dex said:


> Extending the discount offer for a month is the right thing to do. The price is still too high, but at least it's something.


At least there is now the opportunity to learn first-hand if the updates are truly worth the absurd upgrade price.


----------



## Nimrod7

Extending the preorder is the right thing to do. It will give people opportunity to watch reviews.
Shame to whoever preordered thinking 20th is the last day (including me).

On another matter the SSL certificate in their website expired or not resolving, which makes me feel ockward for a company of their size.
The browser is telling me that EastWest can't be trusted! :D


----------



## Nuno

Just subscribed for composer cloud, but got this message while trying to sign in:







Does anyone had this problem before? I am connected to the internet, i don't understand..
I submited a support ticket, but it's annoying not being able to use the service right away.


----------



## Audio Birdi

Nimrod7 said:


> Extending the preorder is the right thing to do. It will give people opportunity to watch reviews.
> Shame to whoever preordered thinking 20th is the last day (including me).
> 
> On another matter the SSL certificate in their website expired or not resolving, which makes me feel ockward for a company of their size


They've never had an SSL certificate for their main website, as they use PayPal for orders and when checking out, there's an SSL certificate on the checkout pages on netsuite from the looks of it. Both with PayPal and when using their own checkout system .

Hope this helps!


----------



## Michael Antrum

Nuno said:


> Just subscribed for composer cloud, but got this message while trying to sign in:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone had this problem before? I am connected to the internet, i don't understand..
> I submited a support ticket, but it's annoying not being able to use the service right away.


Just tried mine and its working fine...


----------



## JonSolo

INTRO (not preorder) Extended to May 20th. Perfect.

Still, a few videos of LIVE and IN ACTION would be a great PUSH for me....

I still love EWQL, despite all the PR issues.


----------



## alcorey

Nuno said:


> Just subscribed for composer cloud, but got this message while trying to sign in:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone had this problem before? I am connected to the internet, i don't understand..
> I submited a support ticket, but it's annoying not being able to use the service right away.


Could be because they are preparing their servers for battle in 11 hours!


----------



## AndyP

JonSolo said:


> INTRO (not preorder) Extended to May 20th. Perfect.
> 
> Still, a few videos of LIVE and IN ACTION would be a great PUSH for me....
> 
> I still love EWQL, despite all the PR issues.


Which means 595$ not 495$ as far as I understand it.


----------



## djburton

AndyP said:


> Which means 595$ not 495$ as far as I understand it.


I've interpreted the crossed-out $595 to be the "regular" upgrade price after the "pre-sale" (now "intro," apparently) price expires. Thus, the upgrade price would remain $495 until May 20, $595 thereafter. Unless someone has heard definitively otherwise.


----------



## ChazC

AndyP said:


> Which means 595$ not 495$ as far as I understand it.


In the 2nd Facebook screenshot posted earlier the user said "so it will be released today and today won't be the final day to get the $495 diamond upgrade?" EastWrst replied "Correct".

I read that as we should have the $495 upgrade price available til 20th May; which is the right thing for EW to do IMO.


----------



## alcorey

This should help clarify


----------



## Nimrod7

I honestly believe that this thread should be part of marketing curriculum in universities around the world.

Thanks for engaging with support to further clarify the preorder pricing.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Audio Birdi said:


> They've never had an SSL certificate for their main website, as they use PayPal for orders and when checking out, there's an SSL certificate on the checkout pages on netsuite from the looks of it. Both with PayPal and when using their own checkout system .
> 
> Hope this helps!


And their website takes ten years to load as they upload giant image files to the site


----------



## chocobitz825

*preps for release and the frenzy of frustration that continues the conversation*

Who will be the first to upload articulation samples?

who will be the first to find an off pitch sample?

who will be the first to call EW thieves?

who will be the first to say it’s everything they’ve ever dreamed of and that after all this time you just “can’t beat that EW sound”?


----------



## j0fer

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> And their website takes ten years to load as they upload giant image files to the site


No way they will be hosting the libraries themselves, they'll be coming from an S3 bucket somewhere.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

j0fer said:


> No way they will be hosting the libraries themselves, they'll be coming from an S3 bucket somewhere.


Sitting in Bezos' Garage...


----------



## Calazzus

Im sure this question has been answered but I cant find it. What is the price to upgrade from HOD to HOD Opus editon?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Calazzus said:


> Im sure this question has been answered but I cant find it. What is the price to upgrade from HOD to HOD Opus editon?


As seen on the website, it’s $495 for the pre sale.


----------



## ennbr

Well the site has changed no longer a Pre-Order button on the page switched to Buy Now still no additional videos


----------



## rnb_2

alcorey said:


> Could be because they are preparing their servers for battle in 11 hours!


I did a 1-month sub late last night and downloaded the Gold orchestra sets overnight so I'll only have to get the new content when OPUS releases in anticipation of just this issue.


----------



## Dex

Trash Panda said:


> At least there is now the opportunity to learn first-hand if the updates are truly worth the absurd upgrade price.


Part of me wonders if it's because the walkthrough videos aren't done yet so they're going to rely on youtubers to make them.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Dex said:


> Part of me wonders if it's because the walkthrough videos aren't done yet so they're going to rely on youtubers to make them.


I really hope Daniel James does one, It would be comprehensive.


----------



## MauroPantin

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I really hope Daniel James does one, It would be comprehensive.


And NSFW


----------



## SlHarder

A comment from Wolfgang Kundrus on FB Virtual Orchestration

"The servers are provided by Amazon Web Services and they is prepared to scale to much more traffic than you will be able to produce "


----------



## alcorey

rnb_2 said:


> I did a 1-month sub late last night and downloaded the Gold orchestra sets overnight so I'll only have to get the new content when OPUS releases in anticipation of just this issue.


Curious if you know what download speed you were getting. I downloaded all of the Diamond files during the last 2 weeks and could only achieve + or - 7mbps. I have close to100 mg download speed on speedtest.


----------



## emilio_n

With new things coming from Spitfire, OT and Sonokinetc in the next few days and the lack of EW news, my GAS about Opus is going down.
If Apple something better than a 24' M1 iMac my budget will go directly there...


----------



## jaketanner

emilio_n said:


> With new things coming from Spitfire, OT and Sonokinetc in the next few days and the lack of EW news, my GAS about Opus is going down.
> If Apple something better than a 24' M1 iMac my budget will go directly there...


I am also eagerly waiting for Apple to announce their new line up...however i am going for the new iPad Pro. There is definitely talk of a new imac...so here's hoping.


----------



## dzilizzi

MauroPantin said:


> And NSFW


Fortunately, I work from home......


----------



## emilio_n

jaketanner said:


> I am also eagerly waiting for Apple to announce their new line up...however i am going for the new iPad Pro. There is definitely talk of a new imac...so here's hoping.


I need to keep my old and trusty iPad Pro at least for another year more, but the one the probably present today looks really cool.
About the iMac, I need to change mine asap, so I hope they really show something good for us.


----------



## Chaosmod

alcorey said:


> Curious if you know what download speed you were getting. I downloaded all of the Diamond files during the last 2 weeks and could only achieve + or - 7mbps. I have close to100 mg download speed on speedtest.


I just downloaded a few additional libraries from my CC+, and I was getting 45.2MB dl speed... which is lousy since I get 1GB down and 50MB up on fiber to the curb. 

I ran a speed test, and I was still showing ~972mbps, while only pulling 45mbps from the Amazon server. Not sure where that particular download lives currently, but I am assuming it's on Amazon too.


----------



## cqd

We've no idea what time it goes live, do we?..


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

cqd said:


> We've no idea what time it goes live, do we?..


Support said "tomorrow morning (PST)".


----------



## jaketanner

emilio_n said:


> I need to keep my old and trusty iPad Pro at least for another year more, but the one the probably present today looks really cool.
> About the iMac, I need to change mine asap, so I hope they really show something good for us.


Apple event is at 10am pacific. I already made an appointment at the apple store just in case.. LOL Although release is most likely Friday.


----------



## Mike Fox

Found the walkthrough!


----------



## j0fer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Support said "tomorrow morning (PST)".


Define 'morning'. A farmer's morning? A banker's? A musician's (also frequently referred to as 'noon')?


----------



## Trax

Morning is when it is released. You have it all backwards. It's not that the morning defines when it's released, it's that when it's released is when morning is.


----------



## VSriHarsha

dzilizzi said:


> It looks like it has a bit more going for it in that you can adjust the midi more. I don't think the Orchestra has all the options the orchestrator has.


The Orchestra is Sonuscore’s right? I know the Orchestrator is EW’s perhaps they’re joining hands? Damn am confused.


----------



## Toecutter

VSriHarsha said:


> The Orchestra is Sonuscore’s right? I know the Orchestrator is EW’s perhaps they’re joining hands? Damn am confused.


Create full-scale orchestral music with complex arrangements by playing a few simple chords with one hand and shaping expression with the other. Developed in collaboration with Sonuscore, Hollywood Orchestrator used all the instruments in Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition to create realtime arrangements based on your MIDI input with our Innovative Scoring Engine






Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest


Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.




www.soundsonline.com


----------



## VSriHarsha

Thanks @dzilizzi !


----------



## Mike Fox

Toecutter said:


> Create full-scale orchestral music with complex arrangements by playing a few simple chords with one hand and shaping expression with the other. Developed in collaboration with Sonuscore, Hollywood Orchestrator used all the instruments in Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition to create realtime arrangements based on your MIDI input with our Innovative Scoring Engine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soundsonline.com


I guess I know who to really give credit to.


----------



## Chaosmod

Well, it's technically "morning" in California in another 2 hours and 14 minutes, so.... I probably won't be that lucky and I'll have to sleep on it :(


----------



## dzilizzi

I kind of doubt you will see it much before 9 am and more likely closer to 5 pm. Isn't that how it works?


----------



## alcorey

It's 4/20.....PST...!!!!!
Funny they would pick a number such as 420


----------



## Chaosmod

alcorey said:


> It's 4/20.....PST...!!!!!
> Funny they would pick a number such as 420


whaaaasup *toke* *cough* *cough* *pass*


----------



## larry777

Hi, 
Just to make sure I understood what was said, it would be necessary to download EW Symphonic Orchestra Platinum to complement the Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition? ( Sort of the complete package? )


----------



## larry777

Sorry, I just saw on the FAQ that it's using the old Hollywood Orchestra and new content from Opus, thanks anyways.


----------



## Manakin Skywalker

larry777 said:


> thanks anyways.


You're welcome. Glad to help.


----------



## cqd

It's almost noon here..

This is an outrage..


----------



## alir1296

alcorey said:


> It's 4/20.....PST...!!!!!
> Funny they would pick a number such as 420


Right well that should be now...


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Why are people expecting it to be on their time? Look at where they are located and go off the time and date there. What makes anyone think it will be based on New Zealand time, or time here in the UK? 😂


----------



## MauroPantin

Lewis Emblack said:


> What makes anyone think it will be based on New Zealand time


Doug Rogers is originally from NZ. So he technically comes from the future.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

alcorey said:


> Curious if you know what download speed you were getting. I downloaded all of the Diamond files during the last 2 weeks and could only achieve + or - 7mbps. I have close to100 mg download speed on speedtest.


Yeah that is very wrong
I have 200Mpbs here on Virgin in the UK

And I was able to Download the whole Diamond collection in a day: Strings, Woods, Perc, Brass, Choirs, Harp and even some of the older QL libraries too (SD2, Goliath etc)


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Chaosmod said:


> I just downloaded a few additional libraries from my CC+, and I was getting 45.2MB dl speed... which is lousy since I get 1GB down and 50MB up on fiber to the curb.
> 
> I ran a speed test, and I was still showing ~972mbps, while only pulling 45mbps from the Amazon server. Not sure where that particular download lives currently, but I am assuming it's on Amazon too.


I am confused because first time you put 45MBps and then you said 45Mbps?

If you are getting 45MB/s (MegaByte) that is about right since they would cap at a percentage
I would not see them having too high connections either, because that could topple their servers with too many people pulling that at once

45Mb/s (megabit) on the other hand is not good at all for your connection


----------



## Lewis Emblack

MauroPantin said:


> Doug Rogers is originally from NZ. So he technically comes from the future.


Good point 🤣


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Mike Fox said:


> Found the walkthrough!



My gosh we have come so VERY far haven't we

I personally think the squeaky chair added to the performance as well


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Lewis Emblack said:


> Good point 🤣


What torture we have here
Being over this side of the pond... the others are now sleeping and not thinking about OPUS at all

But for us who are awake, we are counting down the moments to the inevitable hour
6 to go...


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> What torture we have here
> Being over this side of the pond... the others are now sleeping and not thinking about OPUS at all
> 
> But for us who are awake, we are counting down the moments to the inevitable hour
> 6 to go...


I just think it is amusing that people seem to think they are going to be releasing a library as soon as it is the 20th somewhere in the world. It is 4am for them at the moment, so as if they will be releasing it yet 🤣
Me thinks it will be at least 5pm for us (9am PST when they get in the office)


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Lewis Emblack said:


> I just think it is amusing that people seem to think they are going to be releasing a library as soon as it is the 20th somewhere in the world. It is 4am for them at the moment, so as if they will be releasing it yet 🤣
> Me thinks it will be at least 5pm for us (9am PST when they get in the office)


Yes I am thinking about 10-11AM

So 5-6 hours to go yet
Always have the Apple Event to tie me over though


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Yes I am thinking about 10-11AM
> 
> So 5-6 hours to go yet
> Always have the Apple Event to tie me over though


Not really interested in Apple myself, but I am considering getting a tablet of some description in the next few weeks for TouchOSC as the faders on my keyboard are really inadequate for dynamics and expression (obv have mod wheel and also got an expression pedal, but doing both at the same time is awkward) Need to test with mobile first, but I think I could prob get a tablet cheaper than a couple of MIDI faders 🤔


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Lewis Emblack said:


> Not really interested in Apple myself, but I am considering getting a tablet of some description in the next few weeks for TouchOSC as the faders on my keyboard are really inadequate for dynamics and expression (obv have mod wheel and also got an expression pedal, but doing both at the same time is awkward) Need to test with mobile first, but I think I could prob get a tablet cheaper than a couple of MIDI faders 🤔


Yeah possibly

I currently have the palette gear module which Christian Henson was using
He now has the successor from Monogram though as the company was renamed

Much better controller, not cheap, but very good
Perhaps check it out:








Modular Productivity Tool for Creative Pros


Creative Console is the only controller powerful and versatile enough to increase productivity and creativity for photographers, artists, editors, music producers, and any digital creatives.




monogramcc.com


----------



## Braveheart

It’s around 5 AM in Pacific, so I suggest to everyone to go compose the next trailer blockbuster with your available tools for now!

After that, when it’s online, we’ll have another 10 pages about how the servers are slow, download stuck, etc., so let’s savor the moment!


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Yeah possibly
> 
> I currently have the palette gear module which Christian Henson was using
> He now has the successor from Monogram though as the company was renamed
> 
> Much better controller, not cheap, but very good
> Perhaps check it out:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modular Productivity Tool for Creative Pros
> 
> 
> Creative Console is the only controller powerful and versatile enough to increase productivity and creativity for photographers, artists, editors, music producers, and any digital creatives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> monogramcc.com


I'd love something like that, but due to being out of work due to long term health stuff hardware like this is well out of reach. Looking at around £100ish max. I did look into the DIY ones, but would need to buy a few tools to do it so then suddenly suddenly the cost is not much better with the extra labour involved. My brother has a Behringer BCF2000 (he uses for normal mixing stuff) but with having a keyboard controller already and not a lot of desk space all I need really is 2 or 3 faders. It's amazing that no-one really makes a cheap and cheerful 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Nimrod7

Prepare yourselves!


----------



## RSK

Lewis Emblack said:


> I just think it is amusing that people seem to think they are going to be releasing a library as soon as it is the 20th somewhere in the world. It is 4am for them at the moment, so as if they will be releasing it yet 🤣
> Me thinks it will be at least 5pm for us (9am PST when they get in the office)


Don't work with those on the West Coast much, do you? They wake up at 9am, but then they have to have their $6 coffee and their avocado toast. After that they have to check their social media feeds, make a couple dozen comments...

They'll get around to posting it, stop asking. God, you're so pushy.


----------



## Soundbed

Couple things.

First, my Sweetwater rep indicated they may have it available at the introductory/preorder price for a time.

two, this introductory price, will it go up when the “preorder” ends this morning/afternoon/evening/tonight? By how much?

and C, I found this faq fairly interesting for those asking about the player only ... although it would include the orchestrator it wouldn’t necessarily include any new samples ...(?)

“
Will I be able to upgrade to the Opus engine without buying Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition?

Currently you must purchase Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition to get the OPUS software. People who purchase any product post-release will also get OPUS. All ComposerCloud members will automatically get OPUS. But we are going to wait a while before allowing previous PLAY product purchasers to upgrade in order to assist our support team during this major upgrade period. When we do provide that option, it will be a paid upgrade.


----------



## Evans

Soundbed said:


> two, this introductory price, will it go up when the “preorder” ends this morning/afternoon/evening/tonight? By how much?


No, they are extending it. There are some quotes from EW Support earlier in the thread that indicate the pricing will last another month.


----------



## Manakin Skywalker

Wait, the price is going _up_?! Shit, I can't get it until I receive my tax refund, and now it looks like I might not be able to get it _at all_...


----------



## Johnny

We should spam this thread with user demos now, we all know EW is not going to give us any more bones


----------



## Johnny

For Canadians, Opus is $1119.77 Canadian before taxes... (Even though I paid $1499.99 and $1499.99 for HW Strings and HW Brass diamond) Not enough of the whole orchestra to qualify as an upgrade


----------



## Soundbed

Evans said:


> No, they are extending it. There are some quotes from EW Support earlier in the thread that indicate the pricing will last another month.


I figured it was mentioned. I’ve only waded through about 40 pages of this thread, LOL. Thanks!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Johnny said:


> For Canadians, Opus is $1119.77 Canadian before taxes... (Even though I paid $1499.99 and $1499.99 for HW Strings and HW Brass diamond) Not enough of the whole orchestra to qualify as an upgrade


Yeah, even with the upgrade it’s $620 cdn....plus another $300 for a 2TB SSD.


----------



## Johnny

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Yeah, even with the upgrade it’s $620 cdn....plus another $300 for a 2TB SSD.


Oye... Time for a second mortgage...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Johnny said:


> Oye... Time for a second mortgage...


Needless to say....it's not going to happen. IMO, it's like buying HOD again, and basically paying for some additional content and Orchestrator. So for $1000CDN, there's a lot of other options out there. CCX will do me just fine.


----------



## jon wayne

So, is this your last word on this?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

jon wayne said:


> So, is this your last word on this?


My last word? Hell no Jon Wayne! I'm looking forward to it actually, just glad I already have CCX and HOD. Despite my pricing/communication gripes, I'm confident it will sound great, I'm an EW "lifer".


----------



## RSK

People have commented many times that this is just the same samples packaged in a new player, but to my ears the new demos sound different from the old ones. I tried HO a year ago and didn't like the overly bright sound, and these demos sound a bit mellower and more useful.

I have the cloud subscription so I'm definitely going to download the new version and give it a chance.


----------



## Tremendouz

Soundbed said:


> Currently you must purchase Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition to get the OPUS software. People who purchase any product post-release will also get OPUS. All ComposerCloud members will automatically get OPUS. But we are going to wait a while before allowing previous PLAY product purchasers to upgrade in order to assist our support team during this major upgrade period. *When we do provide that option, it will be a paid upgrade.*


Well I'm fine with that as long as it's something reasonable like 50 bucks or so.

I just wish that Diamond owners had access to Gold without buying the whole orchestra twice. I got Diamond earlier cause the price was good but it is a massive RAM hog so I'd love to use gold for some instruments.


----------



## jon wayne

Jeremy Spencer said:


> My last word? Hell no Jon Wayne! I'm looking forward to it actually, just glad I already have CCX and HOD. Despite my pricing/communication gripes, I'm confident it will sound great, I'm an EW "lifer".


I did my share of complaining in the past over EW. This time I'm doing CC since I own HO. If I don't like, I cancel. Sorry I falsely accused!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

jon wayne said:


> I did my share of complaining in the past over EW. This time I'm doing CC since I own HO. If I don't like, I cancel. Sorry I falsely accused!


I know, I often find myself whining about trivial things. At the end of the day, it's first world problems


----------



## Toecutter

So many pages to read, so little time XD Is it out? Good luck to all download warriors!!


----------



## Chaosmod

*eye twitch* *takes another swig of coffee* *puff* *puff* *pass*


----------



## Toecutter

RSK said:


> People have commented many times that this is just the same samples packaged in a new player, but to my ears the new demos sound different from the old ones.


There are new demos? I can only see Age of Heroes


----------



## Mike Fox

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I personally think the squeaky chair added to the performance as well


Those kinds of imperfections just add to the realism!


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Toecutter said:


> So many pages to read, so little time XD Is it out? Good luck to all download warriors!!


Being a west coast professional myself, I don't expect them to get to the office before 11AM.


----------



## Mystic

mopsiflopsi said:


> Being a west coast professional myself, I don't expect them to get to the office before 11AM.


Plus it's 4/20 so add another 4 hours to that.


----------



## Chaosmod

>


A West Coast definition of morning could be literally anytime, but it's recommended that it's free of shadows and the ground is already warm. (that's also how I define it)


----------



## Evans

Yes, this launch could possibly occur within the next ~three hours. Perhaps they'll release a new video in the meantime, to distract everyone from pinging Support. Eh?


----------



## Toecutter

New SSD is up and running, let's do this!


----------



## dzilizzi

Tremendouz said:


> Well I'm fine with that as long as it's something reasonable like 50 bucks or so.
> 
> I just wish that Diamond owners had access to Gold without buying the whole orchestra twice. I got Diamond earlier cause the price was good but it is a massive RAM hog so I'd love to use gold for some instruments.


I like how when you buy EWQLSO Platinum Plus, you get the option. And it is only $100 more. Definitely worth an extra $100 for the option.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Mystic said:


> Plus it's 4/20 so add another 4 hours to that.


They have multiple Wolfgangs, though. The Prussian work ethic might counter some of that extra allowance.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

RSK said:


> Don't work with those on the West Coast much, do you? They wake up at 9am, but then they have to have their $6 coffee and their avocado toast. After that they have to check their social media feeds, make a couple dozen comments...
> 
> They'll get around to posting it, stop asking. God, you're so pushy.


You forgot the 2 hours they spend in their safe space colouring and reading books on inclusiveness...
Or have I been falsely informed?


----------



## Evans

This is going too far. I'm not here to make fun of people or watch others make fun of people. It can get out of control fast.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

The best argument you can make against inclusiveness is taking things too far, so you won't be included in the next guest list. *takes a bite of his avocado toast*


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Btw, I'm a newcomer to CC and I see they have a ton of stuff in there. What are some of the stand out products from their catalogue you can recommend?


----------



## Steller

mopsiflopsi said:


> Btw, I'm a newcomer to CC and I see they have a ton of stuff in there. What are some of the stand out products from their catalogue you can recommend?


What type of music do you make?


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Steller said:


> What type of music do you make?


Let's say orchestral and possibly hybrid. I'm still in the process of learning to make things not sound awful.


----------



## Soundbed

Tremendouz said:


> Well I'm fine with that as long as it's something reasonable like 50 bucks or so.
> 
> I just wish that Diamond owners had access to Gold without buying the whole orchestra twice. I got Diamond earlier cause the price was good but it is a massive RAM hog so I'd love to use gold for some instruments.


i doubt it will be only $50 for the new opus player. the orchestrator alone is worth ...


----------



## Steller

mopsiflopsi said:


> Let's say orchestral and possibly hybrid. I'm still in the process of learning to make things not sound awful.


Aren't we all lol
The first thing I like recommending is for Orchestral Samples, (Mostly strings) I would choose their Symphonic orchestra; Beautiful samples in a great room and the Hollywood strings shows its age sometimes.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Steller said:


> Aren't we all lol
> The first thing I like recommending is for Orchestral Samples, (Mostly strings) I would choose their Symphonic orchestra; Beautiful samples in a great room and the Hollywood strings shows its age sometimes.


Looking at the smaller size of the Symphonic stuff compared to HO, I thought they were mainly meant for sketching, no?


----------



## Soundbed

Steller said:


> Aren't we all lol
> The first thing I like recommending is for Orchestral Samples, (Mostly strings) I would choose their Symphonic orchestra; Beautiful samples in a great room and the Hollywood strings shows its age sometimes.


I remember really liking the aggressive side of the older Symphonic Orch basses for hybrid


----------



## SyMTiK

mopsiflopsi said:


> Let's say orchestral and possibly hybrid. I'm still in the process of learning to make things not sound awful.


My go to EW products outside of Hollywood Orchestra are Hollywood Choirs, Stormdrum 2 and 3, Silk, Gypsy, and sometimes RA. The rest are more of a case by case basis. I have used pretty close to every library at some point or another but typically only ventured into the other libraries if I am really searching for something specific. Big fan of Voices of the Empire as well. Not quite as smooth and versatile to use as some other great solo voice libraries out there, but once you figure out its quirks its a very usable library and has a great sound.


----------



## Steller

mopsiflopsi said:


> Looking at the smaller size of the Symphonic stuff compared to HO, I thought they were mainly meant for sketching, no?


Oh man; I'll just recommend downloading both and then comparing samples so you can decide on your own.


----------



## Steller

And one I started recently and was extremely pleasantly surprised at was ministry of rock. I'm thinking about making a bias tierlist for all the EW libs


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Well I have Tim here to tie me over while he walks through a $1billion+ park lecturing people on how they must spend more money on making the world better for himself and his friends, who are so out of touch with reality it is no longer commical 

But I digress...


----------



## djburton

Soundbed said:


> I remember really liking the aggressive side of the older Symphonic Orch basses for hybrid


EWQLSO was my first sample library. I still use it to supplement HO. The strings are probably the weakest section in the context of current libraries, but some excellent passages can be wrung from them. Composers (which I am not, just a MIDI reconstructer of orchestral classics by others) are often in search of decent ensemble woodwinds. By instrument, the sections in SO stand up rather well in a mix.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

So no rush EastWest...


----------



## BasariStudios

mopsiflopsi said:


> What are some of the stand out products from their catalogue you can recommend?


The problem with your question is you are about 12 years late. You should've asked that in 2009.


----------



## FinGael

LIfe goes too fast. Today is an exception. 

PS. Have a new hobby; started walking circles. Good exercise. Stay positive.


----------



## Chungus

djburton said:


> EWQLSO was my first sample library. I still use it to supplement HO. The strings are probably the weakest section in the context of current libraries, but some excellent passages can be wrung from them. Composers (which I am not, just a MIDI reconstructer of orchestral classics by others) are often in search of decent ensemble woodwinds. By instrument, the sections in SO stand up rather well in a mix.


EWQLSO has a permanent place on my drive. A lot of the percussion is still top-notch in my book. Some of the effects patches are also quite nice. :D


----------



## Toecutter

Steller said:


> Hollywood strings shows its age sometimes.


Hollywood Strings workflow may suck but it's one of the best strings still! go rtfm XD


----------



## Prospero The Bun

Amazon guy has just pulled up outside with my new SSD ... and I _need _these samples on it!!


----------



## Trax

Prospero The Bun said:


> Amazon guy has just pulled up outside with my new SSD ... and I _need _these samples on it!!


Put your current copy of EWHO on it.


----------



## Tremendouz

Soundbed said:


> i doubt it will be only $50 for the new opus player. the orchestrator alone is worth ...


Hmm, who's to say that they won't just do a port without the orchestrator?


----------



## TCMQL1

Chungus said:


> EWQLSO has a permanent place on my drive. A lot of the percussion is still top-notch in my book. Some of the effects patches are also quite nice. :D


I'm looking forward to the ability to download individual patches for this reason. I don't use most of EWQLSO these days, but there are still patches in there that I can't live without so I still keep it installed, even though it's taking up way more space than I would like lol.


----------



## SupremeFist

FinGael said:


> LIfe goes too fast. Today is an exception.
> 
> PS. Have a new hobby; started walking circles. Good exercise. Stay positive.


Bagua style?


----------



## cqd




----------



## Prospero The Bun

From soundsonline customer service:


> The download for the Opus Edition is not yet available at this time, as we haven't yet officially released the product. We've been in touch with our licensing team to see when the product will be available, but don't yet have an exact hour of release. It'll probably be available late morning / midday PST, within the next few hours. As soon as it's out, open the Installation Center software and you'll see an update for it. Download that first. After that, you'll find a download option for the Opus engine. And finally, you can download the Opus Edition libraries and the Orchestrator.


----------



## FinGael

SupremeFist said:


> Bagua style?


Yeah, although my own version in which East and West can truly unite.


----------



## GhostRIde Media

Prospero The Bun said:


> From soundsonline customer service: "We've been in touch with our licensing team to see when the product will be available, but don't yet have an exact hour of release."


I Guess 'licensing guy' is the one we're waiting for. I know I have an idea what he looks like..


----------



## Trax

https://www.thelicensingguys.com/uploads/1/2/6/8/126862672/published/paul-neades-from-the-licensing-guys-removebg-preview.png


----------



## j0fer

11:59pm, Baker Island - release. "Boom! We made release day!"
Yeah, I noticed the licensing wonkiness earlier. In the Installation Center if you 'Refresh Product List', it will flip-flop between 'activated' and '0 days remaining'...back and forth. Don't ask me how I know this.


----------



## FinGael

GhostRIde Media said:


> I Guess 'licensing guy' is the one we're waiting for. I know I have an idea what he looks like..


Looks a lot like Mr Bond. Has a license to license.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Nice to see that EastWest appears to be moderating what is allowed to be posted on their Facebook comments on this release again. Just saw two comments go upon refreshing the page (could have been deleted by the user, but who knows...)


----------



## GhostRIde Media

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Nice to see that EastWest appears to be moderating what is allowed to me posted on their Facebook comments on this release again. Just saw two comments go upin refrshing the page (could have been deleted by the user, but who knows...)


Yeah, well the customer service people are at their desks, it's Licencing guy we're waiting for... "Has anyone seen Paul this morning???"


----------



## mopsiflopsi

GhostRIde Media said:


> Yeah, well the customer service people are at their desks, it's Licencing guy we're waiting for... "Has anyone seen Paul this morning???"


"Paul plays golf on Tuesday mornings. Why, you need him for something?"


----------



## Toecutter

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Nice to see that EastWest appears to be moderating what is allowed to me posted on their Facebook comments on this release again. Just saw two comments go upin refrshing the page (could have been deleted by the user, but who knows...)


yep I saw that, some babyish comments got the EW treatment as they should!


----------



## Braveheart

mopsiflopsi said:


> "Paul plays golf on Tuesday mornings. Why, you need him for something?"


‘Yes, a bunch of guys at V-I Control are waiting for the new release, so they can complain about the product. There’s a complaint thread, and it’s running out of oxygen with nothing important to complain about.’


----------



## Michael Antrum




----------



## Trash Panda

Braveheart said:


> ‘Yes, a bunch of guys at V-I Control are waiting for the new release, so they can complain about the product. There’s a complaint thread, and it’s running out of oxygen with nothing important to complain about.’


“VI-C? Is that like the Hep C? I don’t need to hear about what you do on your own time. Go find Paul. We need licenses, stat!”


----------



## Braveheart

Trash Panda said:


> “VI-C? Is that like the Hep C? I don’t need to hear about what you do on your own time. Go find Paul. We need licenses, stat!”


‘It’s more like Covid. Give them the Opus vaccine, and we’ll stop the spreading.’


----------



## dcoscina

I ended up shelling out $19 for CC. I figured it's not much to try this out for 30 days. Looking forward to it


----------



## Chungus

TCMQL1 said:


> I'm looking forward to the ability to download individual patches for this reason. I don't use most of EWQLSO these days, but there are still patches in there that I can't live without so I still keep it installed, even though it's taking up way more space than I would like lol.


The Opus engine will let us do that? Must've missed that. lol One one hand, that sounds useful. On the other, given how many patches there are in the big libraries, that could very easily become very tedious, depending on how this would be done.


----------



## cqd




----------



## Trax

Waiting for Godopus


----------



## Chaosmod

The chipmunk is the licensing guy, V-I is the squirrel. 

View attachment fybi6f13ofs61.mp4


----------



## Braveheart

So how does anyone find the Orchestrator in action so far?


----------



## Nimrod7

Braveheart said:


> So how does anyone find the Orchestrator in action so far?


The orchestrator haven't arrived yet. Still commuting...


----------



## GhostRIde Media

Braveheart said:


> So how does anyone find the Orchestrator in action so far?


A pain to download!


----------



## Chaosmod

So much for morning.... what's the over/under for an afternoon showing?


----------



## AndyP

So far Opus is running flawlessly.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

AndyP said:


> So far Opus is running flawlessly.


As in running late.


----------



## Batwaffel

mopsiflopsi said:


> As in running late.


As in running towards 2022.


----------



## Batwaffel

Doublepost!


----------



## AndyP

mopsiflopsi said:


> As in running late.


True. Now that you mention it, I can notice a significant latency.


----------



## Evans

Despite the initial concern about the Orchestrator, my CPU usage is incredibly low right now.


----------



## Chaosmod

I find it.... endlessly refreshing.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

I think I will not be seeing this release before we hit midnight here in the UK
Anyone say Hollywood Choirs?

I also am restructuring my template for EWHO as we speak, but without any intention of having OPUS in it... since experience shows they are alwasy delayed

I remember at least two releases that were late in the end
Technology 'ey

Makes me wonder why on earth I staked my career in it


----------



## j0fer

Chaosmod said:


> I find it.... endlessly refreshing.


Don't think I did not see what you did there.


----------



## alir1296

Notice how they don't specify the year... Just says 'Available on April 20th'...

See you guys in 2050!


----------



## joey202

Wolfgang just replied to me, we are one to two hours away. OPUS Party!


----------



## Prospero The Bun

I've got a deadline tomorrow that I deliberately put off because they told me Orchestrator would do it in a fraction of the time. If I end up having to write this cue myself ... I swear I'll ...


----------



## cqd

Last minute fixes?..


----------



## JonSolo

You can save about $40 at Everyplugin.com as they have the Opus Diamond (new not upgrade) available for $751...with immediate delivery...

Of course who really knows if it is immediate or not, heh.


----------



## Christian Javet

At least you can download the new Pigment v3 and discover the new presets while waiting for OPUS to be available...


----------



## FinGael

Prospero The Bun said:


> I've got a deadline tomorrow that I deliberately put off because they told me Orchestrator would do it in a fraction of the time. If I end up having to write this cue myself ... I swear I'll ...


"Randomize Notes" => "Hey guys, got the cues done. Did you know that avantgarde is the next big thing?"


----------



## Prospero The Bun

FinGael said:


> "Randomize Notes" => "Hey guys, got the cues done. Did you know that avantgarde is the next big thing?"


Genius! It might win me a Spitfire competition too.


----------



## JonSolo

"staked my career on it"

"deadline put off"

Seriously, who does this?! I am not saying you are not in the business, but I have been in for years and there is no way I am staking a career or putting off a deadline with the HOPE of a product being delivered.


----------



## Prospero The Bun

JonSolo said:


> "staked my career on it"
> 
> "deadline put off"
> 
> Seriously, who does this?! I am not saying you are not in the business, but I have been in for years and there is no way I am staking a career or putting off a deadline with the HOPE of a product being delivered.


It's jokes/banter/wit.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

cqd said:


> Last minute fixes?..


Wolfgang had to rewrite their licensing server. Just real quick.


----------



## Chaosmod

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Wolfgang had to rewrite their licensing server. Just real quick.


What is this "rewrite" you speak of! 

German engineering gets it right the first time, just not on time... 
but like Gandalf it arrives precisely when it means to...


----------



## joey202

Wolfgang? The whole iLok Licensing System has been rewritten! It's self conscious now. You complain about iLok? Remember that VSTi you bought? Its gone now! haha :D


----------



## Trax

Two hours: are these standard hours or ew hours?


----------



## cqd

Probably just another ploy to get us all to sign up for CC..

The bastards..


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Oh boy. Last minute changes to a product that's about to debut in hours? Not the best product management technique, as you're likely to break something else and not notice it while you were fixing that other thing.


----------



## joey202

Trax said:


> Two hours: are these standard hours or ew hours?


----------



## feck

They missed the release again? Wow - that's some goofy PR misstepping there.


----------



## joey202

feck said:


> They missed the release again? Wow - that's some goofy PR misstepping there.


Technically not, as its still April 20, and they never stated a time afaik, just a rough estimate of "morning (PST)"


----------



## muziksculp

LOL... I will check back again on April 20th, 2022 to check if they released it.


----------



## HardyP

Ouch, just came back after 3 days of Hoopus-Detox - anyone able to post an update summarizing the last 40 pages?
Thanks!


----------



## mopsiflopsi

HardyP said:


> Ouch, just came back after 3 days of Hoopus-Detox - anyone able to post an update summarizing the last 40 pages?
> Thanks!


Paul (fictional character) from licensing is out golfing because this is west coast, and one of the Wolfgangs is doing a last minute hotfix.


----------



## GhostRIde Media

joey202 said:


> Wolfgang? The whole... (cut) It's self conscious now. ...


I saw a movie where Cyberdyne Systems mainframe became self consious..... Don't like where this is going!! My DAW will make me sorry!!!


----------



## TRON 1.0

HardyP said:


> Ouch, just came back after 3 days of Hoopus-Detox - anyone able to post an update summarizing the last 40 pages?
> Thanks!


I believe you haven't missed a thing.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

JonSolo said:


> "staked my career on it"
> 
> "deadline put off"
> 
> Seriously, who does this?! I am not saying you are not in the business, but I have been in for years and there is no way I am staking a career or putting off a deadline with the HOPE of a product being delivered.


Oh no @JonSolo I am referring to the Technology industry
I don't work as a full-time composer, nor have I ever really made money (worth mentioning) in it

I am a hobbyist, beta-tester and generally nerdy individual here
I work in IT


----------



## GhostRIde Media

mopsiflopsi said:


> Paul (fictional character) from licensing is out golfing because this is west coast, and one of the Wolfgangs is doing a last minute hotfix.


How about this:
"EastWest/Soundsonline is hiring!


April 20th, 2020: Licensing guy​Contract
With a small and dedicated team, you will work with the EastWest Web Developers on expanding SoundsOnline into foreign countries.
*Your Profile:*

Fluent in any or all of: French, Dutch, Italian, Spanish, German, Portuguese, Japanese, Chinese, Indian, etc..
Solid foundation of HTML and CSS based WebPage layouts
Firm understanding of Adobe Creative Cloud and various image formats

*The following are a plus:*

Javascript and jQuery"

WOW! what happened to paul???


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

GhostRIde Media said:


> GhostRIde Media said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about this:
> "EastWest/Soundsonline is hiring!
> 
> 
> April 20th, 2020: Licensing guy - Available for Pre-Order 4/20​Contract
> With a small and dedicated team, you will work with the EastWest Web Developers on expanding SoundsOnline into foreign countries.
> *Your Profile:*
> 
> Fluent in any or all of: French, Dutch, Italian, Spanish, German, Portuguese, Japanese, Chinese, Indian, etc..
> Solid foundation of HTML and CSS based WebPage layouts
> Firm understanding of Adobe Creative Cloud and various image formats
> 
> *The following are a plus:*
> 
> Javascript and jQuery"
> 
> WOW! what happened to paul???
Click to expand...


Just one change needed...


----------



## Braveheart

Prospero The Bun said:


> I've got a deadline tomorrow that I deliberately put off because they told me Orchestrator would do it in a fraction of the time. If I end up having to write this cue myself ... I swear I'll ...


Don’t worry, when you’ll have it, you’ll get it done in seconds!


----------



## HardyP

Thanks 

@TRON 1.0 : I knew, my question was more or less kidding - everything‘s running like predicted several months ago


----------



## joey202

My family is just hoping that it gets released today - i was told i have been acting like a little child excited for christmas hoping that santa will come - by a four-year old.


----------



## dzilizzi

mopsiflopsi said:


> Oh boy. Last minute changes to a product that's about to debut in hours? Not the best product management technique, as you're likely to break something else and not notice it while you were fixing that other thing.


The product is done, they just forgot to tell the guy in charge of the EW downloader that it was actually launching today and not next month....


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

dzilizzi said:


> The product is done, they just forgot to tell the guy in charge of the EW downloader that it was actually launching today and not next month....


He just choked on his skinny oat-latte and is peddling as fast as possible to his house

Update: He forgot, doubled back for his avacado toastie and will be home shortly...


----------



## ThomasS

I just came back to this thread after several days, and wow, has it grown! It's six hours AFTER the end of April 20 here in Australia, so I came to listen to the hundreds of user demos who already made blockbuster trailers in minutes with the orchestrator. I ain't heard nothing yet.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> He just choked on his skinny oat-latte and is peddling as fast as possible to his house
> 
> Update: He forgot, doubled back for his avacado toastie and will be home shortly...


Here he comes now!


----------



## Project Anvil

mopsiflopsi said:


> Paul (fictional character) from licensing is out golfing because this is west coast, and one of the Wolfgangs is doing a last minute hotfix.


The Paul I know is always very excited to show me new products. I am not so sure about this Paul.


----------



## j0fer




----------



## joey202

Project Anvil said:


> The Paul I know is always very excited to show me new products. I am not so sure about this Paul.


That sound like Vienna Paul - and he's part of a reason i spent countless amounts of money with them. :D Amazing man.


----------



## Trash Panda

ThomasS said:


> I just came back to this thread after several days, and wow, has it grown! It's six hours AFTER the end of April 20 here in Australia, so I came to listen to the hundreds of user demos who already made blockbuster trailers in minutes with the orchestrator. I ain't heard nothing yet.


VI-C contracted a bit of a case of EastWestitus. Check back in a few hours/days/months and all the posts you’re looking for should show up by then. No, VI-C will not tell you what is responsible for the delay.


----------



## Project Anvil

joey202 said:


> That sound like Vienna Paul - and he's part of a reason i spent countless amounts of money with them. :D Amazing man.


They have a Paul too?

I was talking about Spitfire Paul.

All these damn Pauls are bad for my wallet!


----------



## joey202

Project Anvil said:


> They have a Paul too?
> 
> I was talking about Spitfire Paul.
> 
> All these damn Pauls are bad for my wallet!


The Paul Identity. Every company with a Paul makes me lose money. :D


----------



## joey202

Trash Panda said:


> VI-C contracted a bit of a case of EastWestitus. Check back in a few hours/days/months and all the posts you’re looking for should show up by then. No, VI-C will not tell you what is responsible for the delay.


This sounds like a veeeeeery specific kind of disease.


----------



## vitocorleone123

joey202 said:


> The Paul Identity. Every company with a Paul makes me lose money. :D


You need to move to DePaul as soon as possible!


----------



## AndyP

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> He just choked on his skinny oat-latte and is peddling as fast as possible to his house
> 
> Update: He forgot, doubled back for his avacado toastie and will be home shortly...


Maybe avocados were sold out?


----------



## BRVLN

Why not say April 21st and surprise us a day early instead of saying April 20th and disappoint us for being late?

Who hired their marketing team?!?!


----------



## joey202

Guys, i joined VI-Control because i randomly found that thread, and i just want to say that im incredibly happy to be part of this mess. Makes my evening and waiting for EW Opus Viola Player Edition (You know why) waaay better. :D


----------



## FinGael

BRVLN said:


> Why not say April 21st and surprise us a day early instead of saying April 20th and disappoint us for being late?
> 
> Who hired their marketing team?!?!


Paul? 

One rumor I heard was that Paul hired the licensing guy, who had license to hire the marketing team. Not sure.

Darn, it is past midnight here. Should go to sleep.


----------



## I like music

Check their website!!!






















... and let me know if there are any updates.


----------



## joey202

I like music said:


> Check their website!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... and let me know if there are any updates.


Jokes on you, i basically obliterate that F5 Button.


----------



## Fa

Apple was better. They announced, promised, delivered. A 20th Morning in California is a 20th Morning in Cal... ehm no, in Silicon Valley only.


----------



## Christian Javet

Fa said:


> Apple was better. They announced, promised, delivered. A 20th Morning in California is a 20th Morning in Cal... ehm no, in Silicon Valley only.


maybe because Apple do not have a Paul at the licensing department?


----------



## Trax

BRVLN said:


> Why not say April 21st and surprise us a day early instead of saying April 20th and disappoint us for being late?
> 
> Who hired their marketing team?!?!


LOL that's not how it works. If they said it's the 21st, they'll disappoint on the 21st. So it's better to be disappointed earlier than later. Would you like to wait and be disappointed next year?


----------



## joey202

Trax said:


> LOL that's not how it works. If they said it's the 21st, they'll disappoint on the 21st. So it's better to be disappointed earlier than later. Would you like to wait and be disappointed next year?


Actually, yes - because, maybe, just maybe... the real opus has been the friends we made along our way?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Fa said:


> Apple was better. They announced, promised, delivered. A 20th Morning in California is a 20th Morning in Cal... ehm no, in Silicon Valley only.


To be fair, all Apple did was announce and promised - you can't actually pickup any of the new products yet, so they haven't delivered.


----------



## Trash Panda

joey202 said:


> Actually, yes - because, maybe, just maybe... the real opus has been the friends we made along our way?


The truth is the Opus was inside you this entire time.


----------



## FinGael

I am really tired, but all this waiting and overflow of Pauls from every direction struck me with a brilliantly original idea (if I may say so).

I am planning to make countless classical pieces with the Orc-hestrator and the library and call them Opus + a number (1,2, 3 etc)! Wish me luck!


----------



## Fa

ALittleNightMusic said:


> To be fair, all Apple did was announce and promised - you can't actually pickup any of the new products yet, so they haven't delivered.


Obviously mine was a joke, but to follow you on the precise analysis Apple delivered on precise time all the product announced in the previous event, and today presented with some new precise dates for order and delivery all the products that were expected, no one missing. So far so good... (I even got my Mac Mini M1 a week before the expected delivery date  )


----------



## chocobitz825

who wants to do this all over again over at a cinesamples thread, while we wait for OPUS to drop?


----------



## José Herring

Rare glimpse of EW Licensing:


joey202 said:


> Actually, yes - because, maybe, just maybe... the real opus has been the friends we made along our way?





Trash Panda said:


> The truth is the Opus was inside you this entire time.


Be the Opus you've been waiting for.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Fa said:


> Apple was better. They announced, promised, delivered. A 20th Morning in California is a 20th Morning in Cal... ehm no, in Silicon Valley only.


And they also launched an iMac line that looks like smeone sicked up the rainbow
Big chin, skinny latte design and clearly made for their own local user base

I only enjoyed the iPad Pro launch here


----------



## Fa

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> And they also launched an iMac line that looks like smeone sicked up the rainbow
> Big chin, skinny latte design and clearly made for their own local user base
> 
> I only enjoyed the iPad Pro launch here


Same here. Still waiting for larger RAM M series to see how fast... ehm nope, how much expensive they will be... 

EDIT: Forgive the off topics, but that's what people do waiting for something, they just chat about weather and dogs and Apple and so on...


----------



## Macrawn

José Herring said:


> Rare glimpse of EW Licensing:
> 
> Be the Opus you've been waiting for.


I can't. I need the orchestrator for that. I'll play with Arkhis instead today I guess.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> And they also launched an iMac line that looks like smeone sicked up the rainbow
> Big chin, skinny latte design and clearly made for their own local user base
> 
> I only enjoyed the iPad Pro launch here


The iMac is a complete let down. It's an iPad Pro on a stick, with an option for a frozen yoghurt holder...

I'm going to be checking out a new Ryzen 5950 build. 16 Gb Ram FFS...I think its going to be next year before we see a CPU with more, and then it will be only 32Gb I'll bet.

Or Possibly a 2019 iMac 19 with 128 Gb.... At least I'm on Cubase so at least I have options...


----------



## gst98

Michael Antrum said:


> The iMac is a complete let down. It's an iPad Pro on a stick, with an option for a frozen yoghurt holder...
> 
> I'm going to be checking out a new Ryzen 5950 build. 16 Gb Ram FFS...I think its going to be next before we see a CPU with more, and then it will be on 32Gb I'll bet.
> 
> Or Possibly a 2019 iMac 19 with 128 Gb.... At least I'm on Cubase so at least I have options...


What was a letdown? I don't like the looks but it is clearly marketed for kids, not pros


----------



## Fleer

Noopus


----------



## Audio Birdi

Michael Antrum said:


> The iMac is a complete let down. It's an iPad Pro on a stick, with an option for a frozen yoghurt holder...
> 
> I'm going to be checking out a new Ryzen 5950 build. 16 Gb Ram FFS...I think its going to be next year before we see a CPU with more, and then it will be only 32Gb I'll bet.
> 
> Or Possibly a 2019 iMac 19 with 128 Gb.... At least I'm on Cubase so at least I have options...


Guessing that Paul at Apple is still preparing the M1X Mac Pro Mini and 32 inch iMac for September / October along with the M1X Macbook Pro 15 / 16


----------



## ThomasS

I keep checking to see if Opus is released, and I just found the following announcement on their site:

PRESS RELEASE FROM EASTWEST SOUNDS

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Following the success of *The Orchestrator*, enabling anyone to write blockbuster trailers in minutes, EastWest Sounds is pleased to announce several new products, coming soon at some unspecified time, and available now for pre-order.

*The Promisator*

At the push of a button, you can make any promise you want—like, say, you will do something in the final quarter of last year and wait until the second quarter of the next year (just a hypothetical example.) It will automatically reassure everyone that you are reliable and trustworthy. Useful for putting off nagging wives (or husbands), bosses, lecturers, family, neighbors and all clients. With advanced technology only once available to insurance companies and politicians, EastWest has employed a crack team of fourteen German engineers (all named Wolfgang) to bring this exciting product to the general public. Guaranteed to work on all people except those who frequent professional chat forums (such as VI-Control) but in such cases our sister program, *The Excusamator*, will fool even them, and is available as an optional upgrade for twice the price of the original program.

*The Compose-a-Maker*

Type in whatever composer you like (Beethoven, Mahler, JW, the Beatles, or whoever) and you will instantly write music exactly like them, fully orchestrated, mixed and ready to deliver as your own composition. Saves a lot of time. (EastWest values speed and timing more than anything else)

*The Royaltypayer*

Our most advanced professional composer software ever. At the push of a button, you can bypass the tedious and time-consuming process of composing, orchestrating, dealing with clients and releasing music, and just receive royalty payments. Only works once per quarter, but saves months of time. Registered owners of Royaltypayer can optionally upgrade (for a price) to *Awardgiver*, which will bestow Grammys, Emmys or Oscars to composers without the boring and unnecessary need to spend time actually creating music.


----------



## cqd

Oh for god's sake..


----------



## Michael Antrum

gst98 said:


> What was a letdown? I don't like the looks but it is clearly marketed for kids, not pros


Because they are packaging the same product is different form factors. The iMac, MacBook Pro, MacBook Air and now the iMac - they are the same damn machine......


----------



## Audio Birdi

cqd said:


> Oh for god's sake..


What's God going to do? Give you Opus quicker?


----------



## Soundbed

EastWest | Sweetwater


Buy your EastWest gear from Sweetwater and enjoy ✅ Instant Delivery and ✅ FREE Tech Support.




www.sweetwater.com




newest EastWest products at Sweetwater


----------



## Michael Antrum

Audio Birdi said:


> What's God going to do? Give you Opus quicker?


Nah, HE uses VSL Synchron Player...


----------



## alcorey

Oh Wopus,
Man did they Ropus into having to Copus waiting patiently for Opus


----------



## Soundbed

chocobitz825 said:


> who wants to do this all over again over at a cinesamples thread, while we wait for OPUS to drop?


in SECONDS !!


----------



## BasariStudios

chocobitz825 said:


> who wants to do this all over again over at a cinesamples thread, while we wait for OPUS to drop?


Can someone open a new Topic on this? Should go over 200 Pages too.


----------



## BasariStudios

Anyways...does anyone know if i can use Opus
Content with the Synchron Player? I like its Skins.


----------



## Project Anvil

BasariStudios said:


> Anyways...does anyone know if i can use Opus
> Content with the Synchron Player? I like its Skins.


Not in a million years.


----------



## joey202

Guys! Just had a chat with EW, it won't be released before afternoon (P effin' DT).


----------



## alcorey

BasariStudios said:


> Can someone open a new Topic on this? Should go over 200 Pages too.


Heck, you can just copy and paste all of this thread right over to it and get a great head start!


----------



## AndyP

Meanwhile I suspect that this is why there are no new walkthroughs because the person who should create them is waiting to download the program.


----------



## rnb_2

Michael Antrum said:


> Because they are packaging the same product is different form factors. The iMac, MacBook Pro, MacBook Air and now the iMac - they are the same damn machine......


But what's the problem with that? The M1 is good enough to serve many markets - the only one of the four that feels slightly superfluous is the MacBook Pro, but you do get longer battery life and a slightly better screen vs the Air. I don't see anything wrong with mass market laptops, mass market mini desktop, and mass market all-in-one running the same SOC - Intel would love to be able to serve all three of those with the same basic chip, but can't due to thermals.

The simple fact is that VIs require a set of specs from a computer that are far out on the edge of current offerings from any company. I can happily process raw photos and 4k video all day with 16GB of RAM. 32GB+ of RAM is very, very exotic - most people are fine with 8GB, and 16GB takes care of the vast majority of the rest of the computer market.

I understand that the M1 is not ideal for a lot of people here, but as initial offerings of a new processor architecture, the machines themselves are pretty stellar.


----------



## BasariStudios

alcorey said:


> Heck, you can just copy and paste all of this thread right over to it and get a great head start!


Will it work in Synchron too? Or just Opus?
I'd like to Port this thread over to the Player.


----------



## BasariStudios

Project Anvil said:


> Not in a million years.


I heard its copy and paste. But you need THE Soup first.


----------



## AndyP

joey202 said:


> Guys! Just had a chat with EW, it won't be released before afternoon (P effin' DT).


Please move on, there is nothing to see here. 

I'm going to sleep now and when I wake up I look forward to following this thread. EW has unintentionally provided a lot of amusement ... (probably they are reading along and lying on the floor laughing).


----------



## joey202

I can't find that guy who wrote that Morning = Afternoon for EastWest, i want to award a trophy - EW confirmed to me that it will be released "afternoon (PDT)". I will wait until 2 or 3 AM (off tommorrow anyways), then i will leave (if i can make it) :D


----------



## cqd

So what time is it now there?..I need to bang a sleeping tablet and sleep..I need to get this downloading first..


----------



## Michael Antrum

rnb_2 said:


> But what's the problem with that?


The Problem is I'm currently stranded. I don't want to invest a lot of money in an architecture Apple is abandoning. Yet there is nothing in the new architecture that's going to be a sensible proposition to me. If Apple were staying Intel, I'd likely would have dropped 6k on a 2019 Mac Pro.

I was around when Apple moved to Intel, and it was amazing how rapidly the old CPU machines got left behind. I don't really want to move to a Windows Box, but I might have to.

Hopefully my 5,1 will last me till net year, but it's creaking at the seams a little.....


----------



## joey202

cqd said:


> So what time is it now there?..I need to bang a sleeping tablet and sleep..I need to get this downloading first..


15:07.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Man, they are really doing their best to perpetuate west coast time jokes.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Let's face it, it wouldn't be a proper East West launch without a little delay.

Anyway, I'm stuck in a hotel with not a lot to do, so this thread is providing some much needed entertainment whilst I'm watching The Abyss on Film 4...


----------



## chocobitz825

Soundbed said:


> in SECONDS !!


Opus claims it can do it in seconds too. Time for the side by side comparisons to see which one is faster.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

chocobitz825 said:


> Opus claims it can do it in seconds too. Time for the side by side comparisons to see which one is faster.


West coast seconds?


----------



## Evans

Side note: word from EW Support is that the Export from the Orchestrator greatly depends on which DAW you are using. Which tells me it's _probably _not actually an "export."


----------



## Trax

cqd said:


> So what time is it now there?..I need to bang a sleeping tablet and sleep..I need to get this downloading first..


You should sleep. It's going to be another 4 hours probably. It's 3PM now, time to hit the gym, then dinner, then maybe post dinner checking on work around 7ish.


----------



## dzilizzi

joey202 said:


> Guys! Just had a chat with EW, it won't be released before afternoon (P effin' DT).


It is 3 in the afternoon already. How much more afternoon can you get?


----------



## alcorey

BasariStudios said:


> I heard its copy and paste. But you need THE Soup first.


SOUP!!!!! Stir that up and you get........OPUS


----------



## mopsiflopsi

dzilizzi said:


> It is 3 in the afternoon already. How much more afternoon can you get?


After the noon of April 20th. It's like a BC/AD thing.


----------



## Trax

dzilizzi said:


> It is 3 in the afternoon already. How much more afternoon can you get?


3PM is mid afternoon, afternoon ends around 6PM, and we're on daylight savings time in PST, so 7PM is the real end of afternoon.


----------



## dzilizzi

mopsiflopsi said:


> West coast seconds?


Considering how long it takes to drive anywhere in Southern Cal, West Coast seconds seems like a thing.


----------



## joey202

Trax said:


> 3PM is mid afternoon, afternoon ends around 6PM, and we're on daylight savings time in PST, so 7PM is the real end of afternoon.


I will wait for 2 more hours, then i will hit bed. This Thread is wayy too much fun to leave it alone right now. :D


----------



## dzilizzi

mopsiflopsi said:


> After the noon of April 20th. It's like a BC/AD thing.


This is true - tomorrow is after noon on the 20th.



Trax said:


> 3PM is mid afternoon, afternoon ends around 6PM, and we're on daylight savings time in PST, so 7PM is the real end of afternoon.


No, no, no - after 4 pm is Prevening. Not quite afternoon, not quite evening. Sheldon Cooper says so.


----------



## chocobitz825

Michael Antrum said:


> Let's face it, it wouldn't be a proper East West launch without a little delay.



anyone have a recommendation for delay compensation? gotta be a plugin or script for this


----------



## FinGael




----------



## Michael Antrum

chocobitz825 said:


> anyone have a recommendation for delay compensation? gotta be a plugin or script for this



Delay compensation ?

It's not a delay, it's just the new player having high latency.....


----------



## chocobitz825

Michael Antrum said:


> Delay compensation ?
> 
> It's not a delay, it's latency.....


depending on marketing, EastWest could say its a feature!


----------



## joey202

FinGael said:


>



Woah! That Demo of Hollywood Orchestrator is REALLY nice!


----------



## chocobitz825

joey202 said:


> Woah! That Demo of Hollywood Orchestrator is REALLY nice!


I refuse to listen to anything that doesn't have some 8-bit sounds in it...


----------



## joey202

chocobitz825 said:


> I refuse to listen to anything that doesn't have some 8-bit sounds in it...


With this attitude, you will win the next spitfire contest for sure. :D


----------



## Trash Panda

chocobitz825 said:


> I refuse to listen to anything that doesn't have some 8-bit sounds in it...


I know of a Westworld competition entry you might be interested in.


----------



## FinGael

chocobitz825 said:


> I refuse to listen to anything that doesn't have some 8-bit sounds in it...


Ok. We need Mr Kudell here. Can anyone fix this? Paul?


----------



## mopsiflopsi

I'm not an expert in VSTs by any means, but as a game developer who's witnessed a few poorly planned launches, I suspect some of the below might have happened / is happening at EW:

EARLY MORNING
- Are we ready? All work checked-in?
- Yes! Ready to launch this sucker!
- How about that little thing I noticed last night? The little UI bug?
- Oh no I haven't touched that yet, but we can always do a hotfix? Not a big issue.
- I'd rather have it done now if it's not much trouble. I want this launch to go AWESOME!
- Yeah I guess... I can probably do it in an hour or two.

FIVE HOURS LATER
- Why aren't the controls responding? Who merged that shit into my branch? WE'RE LOSING ALTITUDE FAST! MAY DAY MAY DAY! PAUL DO SOMETHING!


----------



## chocobitz825

joey202 said:


> With this attitude, you will win the next spitfire contest for sure. :D


with opus and some NES sounds, how could I ever lose??


----------



## joey202

FinGael said:


> Ok. We need Mr Kudell here. Can anyone fix this? Paul?


Everytime somebody writes "Paul?" I read this in the same voice Ethan yells "Shaun!!" in "Heavy Rain", if anybody knows that game.


----------



## MauroPantin

Back from work ready to fire up the installation center aaaaaaaandddddd....


----------



## Braveheart

All those complaining they would never get it, and are done with Eastwest, waiting impatiently for their download


----------



## rnb_2

Michael Antrum said:


> The Problem is I'm currently stranded. I don't want to invest a lot of money in an architecture Apple is abandoning. Yet there is nothing in the new architecture that's going to be a sensible proposition to me. If Apple were staying Intel, I'd likely would have dropped 6k on a 2019 Mac Pro.
> 
> I was around when Apple moved to Intel, and it was amazing how rapidly the old CPU machines got left behind. I don't really want to move to a Windows Box, but I might have to.
> 
> Hopefully my 5,1 will last me till net year, but it's creaking at the seams a little.....


Yeah, I get the frustration of the position you're in. I do think we'll see something more powerful before the end of the year, but the worldwide chip shortage probably isn't helping things right now - I'm sure that today's event was supposed to happen in March, and everything announced today (except the AirTag) still isn't shipping for around a month while they build up stock.

Have you considered a 27" iMac as a stop-gap, or a maxed-out i7 Mac mini? Even the base 6-core $1999 iMac config should run circles around your 5,1, and you can add some Thunderbolt PCIe boxes if necessary. If you're holding out for a Mac Pro equivalent, that may still end up being a 2022 thing when all is said and done, so if you can get 18 months out of something inexpensive, it would probably be worth it.


----------



## Calazzus

chocobitz825 said:


> with opus and some NES sounds, how could I ever lose??


LMBO!


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Just opened the Installation Centre and the update is there!! And OPUS!! GGGGGOOOOOO!!!!


----------



## joey202

Lewis Emblack said:


> Just opened the Installation Centre and the update is there!! And OPUS!! GGGGGOOOOOO!!!!


Cruel joke, how dare you play with my heart like that?


----------



## Lewis Emblack

joey202 said:


> Cruel joke, how dare you play with my heart like that?


----------



## chocobitz825

Lewis Emblack said:


> Just opened the Installation Centre and the update is there!! And OPUS!! GGGGGOOOOOO!!!!


get your credit cards ready and....


----------



## feck

It's up - downloading now.


----------



## joey202

OH MY GOD YES!!! I needed to restart it. THANKS!


----------



## mopsiflopsi

joey202 said:


> Cruel joke, how dare you play with my heart like that?


Not a joke. You have to update IC first though.


----------



## joey202

mopsiflopsi said:


> Not a joke. You have to update IC first though.


Yeah, it didnt show for me lmao, now it does!!! So cool. Soo excited.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

joey202 said:


> OH MY GOD YES!!! I needed to restart it. THANKS!


Pfft! And you doubted me! 🤪


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Frankly I'm super impressed nobody actually trolled us by crying wolf too early.


----------



## chocobitz825

to everyone buying, enjoy! I wont be joining you on this journey,...but this thread is hilarious so in anticipation of the oncoming chaos of reviews.....i will sit back...


----------



## Lewis Emblack

No idea what Product Support is, but my god it is slow downloading...


----------



## Lewis Emblack

mopsiflopsi said:


> Frankly I'm super impressed nobody actually trolled us by crying wolf too early.


I saw someone did on FB, but I think everyone here has a bit more class...and were too busy pacing and wringing their hands to think of doing so 🤣


----------



## rnb_2

I got Opus and Opus Product Support, but I'm starting to get "Operation Not Permitted" errors trying to download the updated content.


----------



## Lazer42




----------



## mopsiflopsi

And so begins my watch... of the download progress bar.


----------



## chocobitz825

Lazer42 said:


>


well thats a plot twist..


----------



## Lewis Emblack

rnb_2 said:


> I got Opus and Opus Product Support, but I'm starting to get "Operation Not Permitted" errors trying to download the updated content.


Product Support is STILL on 9% dag nammit


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Looks like downloading the OPUS edition automatically downloads the Diamond version as well. I could have started downloading that stuff early if I had known.


----------



## joey202

Guys, can anybody launch the Opus Standalone? I have a active sub, checked, refreshed, but still getting the license prompt.


----------



## SyMTiK

It's been out for a whole 30 minutes, and I don't see a SINGLE user demo yet, that orchestrator really must not be that good huh? xD


----------



## gst98

Got OPUS up, interesting way it sets up with preferences. But can confirm it purges like Kontakt!!

In fact, testing across SSDs and an old slow HD, there are no clicks. seems to load on demand better than Kontakt does on the slow HD. Very early look though.


----------



## Toecutter

It's here!! I'm so excited that I wrote this in less than a minute with the Orchestrator superhero preset and had to share it with you lot! Waiting for my Oscar now


----------



## gst98

Wow it is so much faster at loading patches too. I am missing product skins, I think they must be in the other download called product support.


----------



## chocobitz825

the enthusiam is so beautiful....

to think it all started here....with an optimistic release date of last fall...


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Toecutter said:


> It's here!! I'm so excited that I wrote this in less than a minute with the Orchestrator superhero preset and had to share it with you lot! Waiting for my Oscar now


Oh it's that Impending Lawsuit preset, isn't it?


----------



## chocobitz825

mopsiflopsi said:


> Oh it's that Impending Lawsuit preset, isn't it?


you can get sued up the wazoo, but never for the kazoo


----------



## rnb_2

rnb_2 said:


> I got Opus and Opus Product Support, but I'm starting to get "Operation Not Permitted" errors trying to download the updated content.


Is anybody else having this issue? I can't download anything at the moment - nothing but "download failed" messages. I have Opus and Product Support, and I already have the Gold libraries installed, but Opus isn't showing any patches in the database, and I can't get the updates to download.


----------



## Thorgod10

Toecutter said:


> It's here!! I'm so excited that I wrote this in less than a minute with the Orchestrator superhero preset and had to share it with you lot! Waiting for my Oscar now


AMAZING! 
Whipping my wallet out NOW


----------



## Lewis Emblack

joey202 said:


> Guys, can anybody launch the Opus Standalone? I have a active sub, checked, refreshed, but still getting the license prompt.


It looks like you need the Product Support installed for it to work as I had the same issue.


----------



## Christian Javet

Lewis Emblack said:


> It looks like you need the Product Support installed for it to work as I had the same issue.


Same problem here, and I did install the Opus support files... anyone has the same problem?


----------



## Lewis Emblack

rnb_2 said:


> Is anybody else having this issue? I can't download anything at the moment - nothing but "download failed" messages. I have Opus and Product Support, and I already have the Gold libraries installed, but Opus isn't showing any patches in the database, and I can't get the updates to download.


I think things are just being a little glitchy. Took ages downloading 15% of Support (I have 200MB Broadband) then suddenly flew, and the smaller updates literally took seconds each. Just onto the 3 big fellas.


----------



## chocobitz825

Christian Javet said:


> Same problem here, and I did install the Opus support files... anyone has the same problem?


did you activate it in the ilok software? (not the pop up menu, but the actual ilok software)


----------



## mopsiflopsi

I have 25 hours of downloads here, catching up to speed with all the HO Diamond stuff first. See you guys tomorrow!


----------



## Toecutter

Thorgod10 said:


> AMAZING!
> Whipping my wallet out NOW


I know right?! I hope I get a cut


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

joey202 said:


> Guys, can anybody launch the Opus Standalone? I have a active sub, checked, refreshed, but still getting the license prompt.


Same here


----------



## Christian Javet

chocobitz825 said:


> did you activate it in the ilok software? (not the pop up menu, but the actual ilok software)


Yes, I have CCX sub active, it should work like this, right?


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Christian Javet said:


> Same problem here, and I did install the Opus support files... anyone has the same problem?


Yup, getting the same. Hadn't downloaded at the time so was a guess.


----------



## chocobitz825

Christian Javet said:


> Yes, I have CCX sub active, it should work like this, right?


maybe try cycling that activation on ilok to see. i often have problems with that


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

chocobitz825 said:


> well thats a plot twist..


All the people sh*tting on EW and OPUS in this thread will be the first in line to download it. Only so they can be the first to sh*t on the legatos.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Lewis Emblack said:


> Product Support is STILL on 9% dag nammit


So we are both still up at this merciless hour?
What is wrong with us... and to think I have a Government Interview at 9:15am


----------



## SlHarder

Ability to audition instruments in browser without loading is a plus.

And the very detailed help info presented at top of browser for each articulation helps with understanding how to use older libraries.


----------



## rnb_2

OK, now Opus is showing available instruments/patches, but I can't download Orchestrator (or anything else) at the moment. "Operation not permitted" for everything in Installation Center.


----------



## Phaedraz

I'm still waiting for the license to be available in my ilok account. Bought it as upgrade from diamond. Anyone else?


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> So we are both still up at this merciless hour?
> What is wrong with us... and to think I have a Government Interview at 9:15am


Yeah, it is fortunate my sleep pattern is completely buggered at the moment so normally bed is 2 at the earliest 😂

I must say that I am glad I get to share this iconic moment with you all though...everything changes...or is that just Spitfire? 🤪


----------



## jbuhler

gst98 said:


> What was a letdown? I don't like the looks but it is clearly marketed for kids, not pros


Well, it’s designed as the new entry level iMac, so, no, it’s market isn’t pros.


----------



## MauroPantin

OPUS is resizable, thank the gods.


----------



## Christian Javet

Phaedraz said:


> I'm still waiting for the license to be available in my ilok account. Bought it as upgrade from diamond. Anyone else?


I opened a case, as my CC subscription is not allowing me to use OPUS... I guess it is time to go to bed...


----------



## joey202

Christian Javet said:


> I opened a case, as my CC subscription is not allowing me to use OPUS... I guess it is time to go to bed...


Same here.


----------



## fourier

I got the impression that you'd use the old files earlier, but it seems like all files dedicated to the OPUS engine need to be downloaded from scratch. That's a lot of TB's for a lot of people to download.


----------



## Lazer42

Anyone figure out the custom keyswitch thing yet? I did find one place where you could choose "keyswitch," but it doesn't appear to do anything. So far this just seems like play to me with the addition of the soft/classic/epic buttons. I would really love a manual or something.


----------



## Project Anvil

Phaedraz said:


> I'm still waiting for the license to be available in my ilok account. Bought it as upgrade from diamond. Anyone else?


Same here. But there's this:


----------



## dzilizzi

SyMTiK said:


> It's been out for a whole 30 minutes, and I don't see a SINGLE user demo yet, that orchestrator really must not be that good huh? xD


This! Where are the demos????? 

Well, shoot! It is going to get quiet for a while until every one gets it downloaded. Sigh *taps foot* *drums fingers*


----------



## Trax

Toecutter said:


> It's here!! I'm so excited that I wrote this in less than a minute with the Orchestrator superhero preset and had to share it with you lot! Waiting for my Oscar now


A duck is not an instrument. Squeezing it like that is animal abuse. Also more cowbells.


----------



## Toecutter

How's CPU for you that got it working?


----------



## Lewis Emblack

fourier said:


> I got the impression that you'd use the old files earlier, but it seems like all files dedicated to the OPUS engine need to be downloaded from scratch. That's a lot of TB's for a lot of people to download.


I already had Diamond installed so my biggest download is 60GB. The original Diamond is included in that OPUS one so you don't have to download both.


----------



## Toecutter

Trax said:


> A duck is not an instrument. Squeezing it like that is animal abuse. Also more cowbells.


Thank you sir, your feedback is very important and I will try to improve my original composition with the "cowbells from hell" preset. Please standby.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Toecutter said:


> Thank you sir, your feedback is very important and I will try to improve my original composition with the "cowbells from hell" preset. Please standby.


Is that a Pantera preset?


----------



## MauroPantin

Toecutter said:


> How's CPU for you that got it working?


Still early to tell. Around 6-8% for a single V1 legato patch (1st Violins Leg Slur MAX patch), fully purged and using only DFD streaming. But I need to fine tune the settings.


----------



## djburton

Still waiting for the interminable pause between "downloading" and "installing" Product Support. The Opus SW itself installed pretty quickly. May be a hang. I'll wait a little before starting over.


----------



## Toecutter

Lewis Emblack said:


> Is that a Pantera preset?


----------



## Toecutter

MauroPantin said:


> Still early to tell. Around 6-8% for a single V1 legato patch (1st Violins Leg Slur MAX patch), fully purged and using only DFD streaming. But I need to fine tune the settings.


Thanks Mauro, what's your CPU? Can you try loading a full orchestra and playing a tutti chord? (when possible, ofc) would be nice to compare notes


----------



## j0fer

Lewis Emblack said:


> I already had Diamond installed so my biggest download is 60GB. The original Diamond is included in that OPUS one so you don't have to download both.


Ok, you answered my question...and now I see that a lot of Opus installs are in MB. There are only a few that are large. Strings=40GB, Brass=41GB, though Gold 'close'=73.7. Not sure how that relates to the Diamond versions I'm using.


----------



## MauroPantin

Toecutter said:


> Thanks Mauro, what's your CPU? Can you try loading a full orchestra and playing a tutti chord? (when possible, ofc) would be nice to compare notes


I'm on a Ryzen 5-3600 at 3.59Ghz (it's a 6 core-12 logical processors CPU) with 64GBs of RAM.

It is still downloading a bunch of samples, but I intend on trying just that when I have everything available. I say I have to fine tune because I don't need to do full DFD with 64 gigs of ram, obviously, so it's probably going to be less CPU usage than that. Still, I get around 1-2% CPU usage on idle with no samples loaded. So I guess I will have to do some benchmark to see if it's better to use a single OPUS instance or several for my template.

The purge seems to work exactly like Kontakt, as in DFD stream for the first time for any sample and then it gets stored into RAM and streamed from there. It's a dream to finally have this.


----------



## j0fer

I guess I'll ask that question outright: Do installs like "Hollywood Brass Opus Edition Gold Close" mean that if you're using Hollywood Brass Gold...here are the close mics for it...but if you're using Diamond, you already got what you need?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

I was going through it all thinking "how nice of them, this has been some serious work and the OPUS Engine looks awesome. Also has an effects section wtih rack inserts. But then when I realised I am getting "Operation not permitted" trying to download the updates and EW Support Staff are gone from the site... I began to change my mind. Especially when the EW guy on FB said they tend to wait until the support are around until they launch. And then those very support staff are gone when the crap starts and things are not going as expected for people 

Oh and did I mention I am a Cpmposer Cloud Plus subscriber and its now 01:19AM UK time here 

I WANT MY OPUS, DON'T BE HOPLUS


----------



## Lewis Emblack

j0fer said:


> Ok, you answered my question...and now I see that a lot of Opus installs are in MB. There are only a few that are large. Strings=40GB, Brass=41GB, though Gold 'close'=73.7. Not sure how that relates to the Diamond versions I'm using.


That's what I had. Think everything is a little glitchy still, hence the odd name - maybe do a product list refresh?


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I was going through it all thinking "how nice of them, this has been some serious work and the OPUS Engine looks awesome. Also has an effects section wtih rack inserts. But then when I realised I am getting "Operation not permitted" trying to download the updates and EW Support Staff are gone from the site... I began to change my mind. Especially when the EW guy on FB said they tend to wait until the support are around until they launch. And then those very suport staff are gone when the crap starts and things are not going as expected for people
> 
> Oh and did I mention I am a Cpmposer Cloud Plus subscriber and its now 01:19AM UK time here
> 
> I WANT MY OPUS, DON'T BE HOPLUS


I'm just downloading everything and likely going to bed in a bit then seeing where we are tomorrow with the license thing. I bet some of them are working overtime tonight to at least get things working - better they do that than reply to posts on FB about everything IMO.


----------



## ennbr

Well I got Opus installed no license keys have showed up in my iLok account and the Install Center only shows my current products no new content to download.
Maybe after the license keys show up things will fall into place


----------



## Toecutter

MauroPantin said:


> I'm on a Ryzen 5-3600 at 3.59Ghz (it's a 6 core-12 logical processors CPU) with 64GBs of RAM.
> 
> It is still downloading a bunch of samples, but I intend on trying just that when I have everything available. I say I have to fine tune because I don't need to do full DFD with 64 gigs of ram, obviously, so it's probably going to be less CPU usage than that. Still, I get around 1-2% CPU usage on idle with no samples loaded. So I guess I will have to do some benchmark to see if it's better to use a single OPUS instance or several for my template.
> 
> The purge seems to work exactly like Kontakt, as in DFD stream for the first time for any sample and then it gets stored into RAM and streamed from there. It's a dream to finally have this.


Thanks again! Nice specs, I think a lot of ppl have similar computers. Can you please ping me when you post your results?


----------



## Lewis Emblack

ennbr said:


> Well I got Opus installed no license keys have showed up in my iLok account and the Install Center only shows my current products no new content to download.
> Maybe after the license keys show up things will fall into place


Try restarting the Installation Centre, they should be there. The licenses are apparently being rolled out.


----------



## mcalis

ennbr said:


> Well I got Opus installed no license keys have showed up in my iLok account and the Install Center only shows my current products no new content to download.
> Maybe after the license keys show up things will fall into place


I had the same issue. Just got a response from support saying they expect to have fixed this within 15-20 mins.

This affects upgrade purchases.


----------



## MauroPantin

Alright, final post for the day: Don't switch moods whilst playing if you value stability, lol!

BTW, individual patch download works. I'm going to leave this entire thing chugging bandwidth and get back on it when it's done. I need to set up a basic template and do a proper test with everything available.

@Toecutter Sure thing!


----------



## Michael Antrum

Toecutter said:


> It's here!! I'm so excited that I wrote this in less than a minute with the Orchestrator superhero preset and had to share it with you lot! Waiting for my Oscar now


Those legatos are fucking awesome !


----------



## chocobitz825

ALittleNightMusic said:


> All the people sh*tting on EW and OPUS in this thread will be the first in line to download it. Only so they can be the first to sh*t on the legatos.


Haha that’s really the most predictable part of this all 😂


----------



## chocobitz825

Y


MauroPantin said:


> OPUS is resizable, thank the gods.


You’re welcome


----------



## j0fer

First impressions with only a few instruments active: very nice. Good job, EW.


----------



## Dex

MauroPantin said:


> Still early to tell. Around 6-8% for a single V1 legato patch (1st Violins Leg Slur MAX patch), fully purged and using only DFD streaming. But I need to fine tune the settings.


How does that compare to diamond (or gold) for you? I think that would be the most useful way to do CPU comparisons.


----------



## BRVLN

First impressions.
I have It's nearly 9 pm and I have no license available...
What a joke!!!


----------



## bvaughn0402

The manual is up on the website.

EastWest Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition is: • A collection of 1,807 instruments (Diamond) • A collection of 1,259 instruments (Gold) • The Hollywood Orchestrator scoring engine, with over 500 presets • Approximately 944 Gigabytes (GB) of 24-bit, 44.1 kHz samples (Diamond) • Approximately 130 Gigabytes (GB) of 16-bit, 44.1 kHz samples (Gold) • Approximately 242 Gigabytes (GB) of 16-bit, 44.1 kHz samples (GoldX) * • EastWest’s powerful, new Opus software engine. • A license that identifies the product you bought. • An Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition User Manual.pdf • The EW Installation Center to setup the libraries, software, and documentation


----------



## ennbr

mcalis said:


> I had the same issue. Just got a response from support saying they expect to have fixed this within 15-20 mins.
> 
> This affects upgrade purchases.


thanks I opened a support ticket as well


----------



## Toecutter

BRVLN said:


> First impressions.
> I have It's nearly 9 pm and I have no license available...
> What a joke!!!


We have to be realistic here, it's a 1TB download and god knows how many users connected... there's no way it will be a smooth release, just be patient and spare yourself from the frustration XD


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Lewis Emblack said:


> I'm just downloading everything and likely going to bed in a bit then seeing where we are tomorrow with the license thing. I bet some of them are working overtime tonight to at least get things working - better they do that than reply to posts on FB about everything IMO.


Mine is up and running now
I had to scan for my libraries and point the Installation Center to my EWHO again manualy so it found it
Then it seems it knew I had the libraries and so it went ahead and let me download the OPUS content

Got the Solo Instruments, just waiting on, Woodwinds, Brass, Percussion and Strings now


----------



## chocobitz825

Toecutter said:


> We have to be realistic here, it's a 1TB download and god knows how many users connected... there's no way it will be a smooth release, just be patient and spare yourself from the frustration XD


Yet a few pages back some users were implying that offering a full demo of this 1TB product should be no problem...

hope the servers lighten up soon


----------



## BRVLN

Why force an early release?
Get your servers ready for a smooth release and choose a different day...
Everything about this screams “not ready”.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

chocobitz825 said:


> Y
> 
> You’re welcome


Resizable to a full 4K display too


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Mine is up and running now
> I had to scan for my libraries and point the Installation Center to my EWHO again manualy so it found it
> Then it seems it knew I had the libraries and so it went ahead and let me download the OPUS content
> 
> Got the Solo Instruments, just waiting on, Woodwinds, Brass, Percussion and Strings now


Everything is installed here bar Woodwinds which are at 70% download. Still can't open OPUS though without it giving me the license notification.


----------



## Lazer42

Okay, it took both waiting for the manual and some experimentation and this is still an early reaction, but Opus does appear to let you set up keyswitches, as well as allowing you to trigger different patches by controllers program change, _even things like velocity (_meaning you can potentially set something up like Spitfire's Performance Legato patches, I think) for any library. I just did it with Symphonic Orchestra. I have been waiting for _that_ feature for almost 10 years.


----------



## Evans

First one to clarify how midi export works with the Orchestrator gets a Like on their post.


----------



## mcalis

Toecutter said:


> We have to be realistic here, it's a 1TB download and god knows how many users connected... there's no way it will be a smooth release, just be patient and spare yourself from the frustration XD


That is not a download server problem.

EW is processing purchased licenses in batches which are to be deposited into people's ilok accounts. I ordered pretty late and I don't have my license yet, so I can't even start the download. It's just a matter of waiting now. Personally, I'll just check back in tomorrow.

The download servers are on AWS and, afaik, scale to demand. The Opus support and Opus player downloads were blazing fast (single second) downloads for me. As I already have the old HWO installed I don't think I'll be downloading for all that long tomorrow.


----------



## Guffy

Can't complain


----------



## BasariStudios

Braveheart said:


> All those complaining they would never get it, and are done with Eastwest, waiting impatiently for their download


Nope. Enjoying MSS Full and Elite Full here.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

mcalis said:


> That is not a download server problem.
> 
> EW is processing purchased licenses in batches which are to be deposited into people's ilok accounts. I ordered pretty late and I don't have my license yet, so I can't even start the download. It's just a matter of waiting now. Personally, I'll just check back in tomorrow.
> 
> The download servers are on AWS and, afaik, scale to demand. The Opus support and Opus player downloads were blazing fast (single second) downloads for me. As I already have the old HWO installed I don't think I'll be downloading for all that long tomorrow.


It's taken me about an hour and half to download all libraries. The Support one took about 20 mins to get to 15% then everything suddenly flew.

Turns out it all fits on a 1TB SSD too 👍🏻


----------



## Allen Constantine

Lewis Emblack said:


> It's taken me about an hour and half to download all libraries. The Support one took about 20 mins to get to 15% then everything suddenly flew.
> 
> Turns out it all fits on a 1TB SSD too 👍🏻


Out of curiosity, did you sort out the license activation thing? 

I can't pass that although I have my license in iLok...


----------



## Lazer42

Something to note about the CPU usage: based on one super unscientific test, the CPU usage that is reported by Opus seems to be different from your system's overall CPU usage. I just got the Opus to report 40%+ CPU usage while my system itself was only reporting 33%. I'm not quite sure, then, what Opus is measuring, but it may not be as bad as was feared?


----------



## j0fer

OMGosh. Auditioning sounds in the browser. Thank you very much.


----------



## brek

Initial thoughts based on Gold:

The player is nice, some things have been fixed, purge is fantastic... but it still has exact same inconsistent MIDI control mapping from HO. While nice to remap CC11 to CC1, you still lose CC11 as a volume controller.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

AllenConstantine said:


> Out of curiosity, did you sort out the license activation thing?
> 
> I can't pass that although I have my license in iLok...


Nope, everything is installed now but the license is still a no-go so can't even start OPUS yet unfortunately. Think I am going to have a quick look at the manual then go to bed as it is 2:30am here.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Lewis Emblack said:


> Nope, everything is installed now but the license is still a no-go so can't even start OPUS yet unfortunately. Think I am going to have a quick look at the manual then go to bed as it is 2:30am here.


Yes WHY are you still awake? Speaking to myself of course also


----------



## Lewis Emblack

I was moving some files around after everything installed and checking my license issue was still there. Looking at the time, it is probably a good thing it isn't 😂

Didn't you say you have work early? I'll think about you while I am playing with the new shiny 😜


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Lewis Emblack said:


> I was moving some files around after everything installed and checking my license issue was still there. Looking at the time, it is probably a good thing it isn't 😂
> 
> Didn't you say you have work early? I'll think about you while I am playing with the new shiny 😜


Yes something like that
First impressions here of the player are very good

I look forward to working with this new interface and puuuuuuuuurge


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Yes something like that
> First impressions here of the player are very good
> 
> I look forward to working with this new interface and puuuuuuuuurge


Ah cool, I just opened up PLAY for one of the last times just to press a few keys with my mouse...Goodbye player I never really knew.
When was it you got the subscription? I got mine end of December so just wondering when mine will likely appear...must be a hell of a lot of folk on it if they haven't got there yet after almost 3 hours.

*Edit - purge is going to be a godsend


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Lewis Emblack said:


> Ah cool, I just opened up PLAY for one of the last times just to press a few keys with my mouse...Goodbye player I never really knew.
> When was it you got the subscription? I got mine end of December so just wondering when mine will likely appear...must be a hell of a lot of folk on it if they haven't got there yet after almost 3 hours.
> 
> *Edit - purge is going to be a godsend


I got mine April last year


----------



## BasariStudios

Who else has given up reading every single post on here?


----------



## alcorey

BasariStudios said:


> Who else has given up reading every single post on here?


You expecting answers from the people who have given up reading every single post here??


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

So far so good here! 45 minutes to download and install Gold. So far it all sounds pretty much the same as it always has (which isn't a bad thing). Too bad they didn't fix the Clarinet Solo legato...still has phasing issues in the transitions. The player itself is very cool, totally love it; nice features and beautiful GUI. 

The only issue I've had so far is that Orchestrator says it can't find a license.....something about a key file.


----------



## BasariStudios

alcorey said:


> You expecting answers from the people who have given up reading every single post here??


You ruined my Trap.


----------



## Evans

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Too bad they didn't fix the Clarinet Solo legato...still has phasing issues in the transitions.


Good lord, seriously? That's ridiculous.


----------



## SlHarder

bvaughn0402 said:


> The manual is up on the website.


Where?


----------



## Evans

SlHarder said:


> Where?


Near the top of the Opus page. Can't really miss it.


----------



## SlHarder

Jeremy Spencer said:


> The only issue I've had so far is that Orchestrator says it can't find a license.....something about a key file.


Same here, googled, found nothing so submitted a ticket. Going to bed ...


----------



## SlHarder

Evans said:


> Near the top of the Opus page. Can't really miss it.


Sorry, I'm apparently dense tonight, link?

And found it.



http://media.soundsonline.com/manuals/EW-Hollywood-Orchestra-Opus-Edition-User-Manual.pdf


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Wonder when the first walkthrough will be posted on YouTube now.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Wonder when the first walkthrough will be posted on YouTube now.


3rd quarter of 2022. And you get a discount if you subscribe today!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> 3rd quarter of 2022. And you get a discount if you subscribe today!


I bet we'll see a user-made one by tomorrow


----------



## Audio Birdi

Been looking around the OPUS Player. You can finally do 16 stereo outputs per player instance!  With custom key-switching patches and 16 midi channels / 1 stereo output per channel, I can now shift from 1 instrument per instance to 16 instruments per instance! :D


----------



## szczaw

So, looks like most of the effort went into improving the software (?).


----------



## dsharpie

Browsing through the manual ... 16 Stereo Outputs.


----------



## chocobitz825

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Too bad they didn't fix the Clarinet Solo legato...still has phasing issues in the transitions.


There it is!
Some things can’t be fixed I guess


----------



## Steller

Did we always have a ensemble patch in Hollywood Strings??! I don't know if I have never seen it before but this has such a nice, almost old fashioned, sound.


----------



## X-Bassist

So has anyone upgraded for $500? Or is this all subscribers? Kind of sad that owning HO only gives you $200 off. I would wait for a greater discount, but EW is known for not giving discounts to past customers, even during sales... ie Spaces...

Oh well, I”lol check back in 5 years or so to buy it new for $199... the upgrade will still be $495.


----------



## rnb_2

rnb_2 said:


> OK, now Opus is showing available instruments/patches, but I can't download Orchestrator (or anything else) at the moment. "Operation not permitted" for everything in Installation Center.


This finally resolved itself right around 11:30 my time (8:30pm PDT).


----------



## Manakin Skywalker

Is anyone else receiving errors when trying to install Solo Harp/Cello/Violin saying it can only be installed from a physical drive?


----------



## cqd

So we don't actually get the solo instruments if you don't have them previously?..

Initial impression is ok.. I'll see more later..


----------



## cqd

Manakin Skywalker said:


> Is anyone else receiving errors when trying to install Solo Harp/Cello/Violin saying it can only be installed from a physical drive?


Yeah, the violin and cello didn't install here either..


----------



## chocobitz825

i can only assume it got suddenly quiet here because everyone is either A) asleep, B) still downloading, or C) too busy playing with themselves to talk about opus.


----------



## robgb

Was watching a live feed on YouTube and the guy's comparing the old to the new, saying, "This is an upgrade? It sounds exactly the same."


----------



## TRON 1.0

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Too bad they didn't fix the Clarinet Solo legato...still has phasing issues in the transitions.


What about oboe legatos? They were extremely inconsistent in volume.


----------



## Manakin Skywalker

cqd said:


> Yeah, the violin and cello didn't install here either..


I tried redownloading them after receiving the error and they _appear_ to be downloading now... hopefully.


----------



## Dex

robgb said:


> Was watching a live feed on YouTube and the guy's comparing the old to the new, saying, "This is an upgrade? It sounds exactly the same."


I’d like to know what differences people find. They said they reworked some of the instruments soooo...


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Dex said:


> I’d like to know what differences people find. They said they reworked some of the instruments soooo...


I think mostly in the patch structure. Maybe the odd fix here and there but I think sound-wise, it is the same (apart from the all new recordings).


----------



## Tremendouz

How many mics do the moods use? I'm wondering if I should bother with Diamond at all with 32GB RAM (even if there seems to finally be a better purge function in OPUS?)

I already have the old Diamond so I could use that in case I need close mics for a certain patch


----------



## brek

Dex said:


> I’d like to know what differences people find. They said they reworked some of the instruments soooo...



It's still early, but I haven't found a ton of differences. The woodwind legatos remain problematic. They remapped most dynamic crossfades to CC11 in HW - linking this to a volume controller seems to mask some of those jarring transitions to an extent.

Across all winds and strings, they transitioned more patches to use CC11 for crossfades which is the exact opposite of what I expected. 

There were some bad loop point edits (pops) in the brass that are fixed. The patch names and organization have been tweaked a bit too. The player gives a nice description of what the patch is, so no need to use your secret decoder ring anymore. The controls are still as inconsistent as ever so you will need to read that description box. 

If you loved Hollywood Orchestra, this will be a treat. If you felt there were some fundamental flaws in HO, this is not going to win you over.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Difficult balance to strike between old and new for them I suspect. I'm stuck in a hotel so I won't get to play for a few days, but the licence has appeared in my lock account. Will this work on cloud, or does it have to be on a hardware ilok ?


----------



## cqd

The Orchestrator will be handy for putting quick backing patches together..
Didn't delve into the arps and stuff yet..
Can anyone who didn't have the solo instruments previously confirm having them now?


----------



## rnb_2

Michael Antrum said:


> Difficult balance to strike between old and new for them I suspect. I'm stuck in a hotel so I won't get to play for a few days, but the licence has appeared in my lock account. Will this work on cloud, or does it have to be on a hardware ilok ?


Hardware or machine, no cloud.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Tremendouz said:


> How many mics do the moods use?


Page 128 in the manual. Between 1 and 2 mics with different reverb settings.


----------



## Thorgod10

Me, not purchasing the library and letting everyone get disappointed for me

(Only to inevitably buy it when the orchestrator blows my socks off)


----------



## Nimrod7

Anyone has issues installing? 

Software installed (OPUS, Product Support)

The Libraries, either getting a message that can be installed from a physical drive (!), or "out of space" which the sample drive & my root drive both have over 1TB.


----------



## Apina

I find it frustating that the upgrade period was so limited. It usually takes a bit of time to consider if I really want this. I won't buy this on full price, so I'll probably use the money on other products.


----------



## José Herring

Ummmm.....dudes......enough of the school girl gossip and start posting some user demos.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Apina said:


> I find it frustating that the upgrade period was so limited. It usually takes a bit of time to consider if I really want this. I won't buy this on full price, so I'll probably use the money on other products.


The upgrade intro price is available until May 20th.


----------



## cqd

ALittleNightMusic said:


> The upgrade intro price is available until May 20th.


Hey..did you say you had the manual a while ago?..
where did you get it?..


----------



## TRON 1.0

I loaded up some projects with play HO version. Hmm, looks like the installation screws up the samples addresses. I didn't have GoldX versions before though so I had to install them first in order to use Opus. So idk what caused this issue - either Opus itself or close mics are rewriting samples location.


----------



## Lazer42

cqd said:


> Hey..did you say you had the manual a while ago?..
> where did you get it?..





http://media.soundsonline.com/manuals/EW-Hollywood-Orchestra-Opus-Edition-User-Manual.pdf


----------



## Manakin Skywalker

cqd said:


> Can anyone who didn't have the solo instruments previously confirm having them now?


Yep. I didn't have any of them and do now since purchasing Opus.


----------



## cqd

Manakin Skywalker said:


> Yep. I didn't have any of them and do now since purchasing Opus.


Have you got them downloaded and working?..


----------



## yellow_lupine

What about keyswitches? You can finally choose whichever articulation you want or are still confined to the KS master included ones?
Reading the manual it seems it is not possible to add an articulation the KS master doesn't include, such as in PLAY... really??? again???


----------



## José Herring

TRON 1.0 said:


> I loaded up some projects with play HO version. Hmm, looks like the installation screws up the samples addresses. I didn't have GoldX versions before though so I had to install them first in order to use Opus. So idk what caused this issue - either Opus itself or close mics are rewriting samples location.


I got this error when I upgrade from Play 3 to Play 6. Was able to resolve it through tech support. I'd contact them because it was a long work around involving finding some hidden files, and deleting them, then reauthorizing.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

I hope they, or users here, post a video showing the new content. That's all I'm interested in. I'm not gonna pay just so i can customize keyswicth or use the orchestrator no way.


----------



## cqd

yellow_lupine said:


> What about keyswitches? You can finally choose whichever articulation you want or are still confined to the KS master included ones?
> Reading the manual it seems it is not possible to add an articulation the KS master doesn't include, such as in PLAY... really??? again???


No, you can put any keyswitch where you want..the is patch loads up with 5 or 6, but on the articulations page then you can configure them as you'd like..

All might not be there, but all you'd want usually are..


----------



## sundrowned

yellow_lupine said:


> What about keyswitches? You can finally choose whichever articulation you want or are still confined to the KS master included ones?
> Reading the manual it seems it is not possible to add an articulation the KS master doesn't include, such as in PLAY... really??? again??



You can. It's on page 173 in the manual.


----------



## mcalis

Anyone else have crazy high CPU usage on the 18 Violins Repetitions TS?

I'm on a 5800x and I got it up to 100% playing a single note.

Thankfully, one note is enough to write a blockbuster score in seconds. So I guess I'm all set!


----------



## Nuno

For those who are having problems with the license activation of Opus:

Just uninstall and reinstall Opus and it should work.


----------



## Tremendouz

I noticed a funny thing: if you're from EU and buy from everyplugin.com, a full diamond license will only cost around $55 more than an upgrade (diamond to diamond OPUS) from soundsonline.com (the latter adds VAT just before pressing the very final confirmation button on PayPal)


----------



## gamma-ut

If you're getting "Download failed: Operation not permitted" try updating the folder locations in EW Installation Center. I deleted mine in the software and then added them back to find that it would then start downloading: go to Library Directories... on the top-right hamburger menu.


----------



## cqd

I'm getting that the violin and cello can only be installed from the EW sample drive..


----------



## Manakin Skywalker

cqd said:


> Have you got them downloaded and working?..


I haven't been able to test if they are indeed working yet, but they did download. Once everything is installed I'll be able to check and make sure it's working as intended.


----------



## Manakin Skywalker

cqd said:


> I'm getting that the violin and cello can only be installed from the EW sample drive..


Just try downloading a few times, it should work after a bit. No idea what's causing the initial issue. If that doesn't work then try updating the sample directory as gamma-ut suggested.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, after gamma ut's advice there mine seem to be downloading alright..looks like I might have to install them myself, but I'll manage that..


----------



## Marsen

Toecutter said:


> Create full-scale orchestral music with complex arrangements by playing a few simple chords with one hand and shaping expression with the other. Developed in collaboration with Sonuscore, Hollywood Orchestrator used all the instruments in Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition to create realtime arrangements based on your MIDI input with our Innovative Scoring Engine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soundsonline.com


Isn't it exactly, what I've said?
An expanded "The Orchestra" with better sound.


----------



## Eptesicus

Are there any demos of the new patches/recordings anywhere?


----------



## FKVStudio

Question for those who already have OPUS in their possession. For someone who doesn't have any "all-in-one" orchestra (except Komplete 12 Ultimate) is OPUS worth buying?


----------



## Nuno

Tremendouz said:


> I noticed a funny thing: if you're from EU and buy from everyplugin.com, a full diamond license will only cost around $55 more than an upgrade (diamond to diamond OPUS) from soundsonline.com (the latter adds VAT just before pressing the very final confirmation button on PayPal)


Is it safe to buy from that site, is it legit? 
I can save €399 on a diamond license which is a pretty good deal!


----------



## alir1296

Ok I've downloaded Opus and the Orchestrator, but can't see anything about the Orchestrator in Opus. I've looked under the 'Perform' tab but can only see 'Zones' and 'All Instances'. Anyone know how to fix this please?


----------



## Nuno

alir1296 said:


> Ok I've downloaded Opus and the Orchestrator, but can't see anything about the Orchestrator in Opus. I've looked under the 'Perform' tab but can only see 'Zones' and 'All Instances'. Anyone know how to fix this please?


You have to load the Orchestrator from the browser. Then you will be able to see the presets.


----------



## Geomir

Marsen said:


> Isn't it exactly, what I've said?
> An expanded "The Orchestra" with better sound.


Exactly, Sonuscore is behind that.

Better sound (as you said), most probably yes. "Expanded", most probably not.

Imho the variety of presets in the Orchestra Complete 2 is amazing, and I don't think it will be the case with EWHO Opus. With TOC2 you get from fairy-tale enchanting-dreamy ones, up to epic loud ones, and everything in between. 

Male and female choirs, grand piano, symphonic pipe organ, specialized string patches like sul ponticello sustains and spicatto (perfect for "icy - glacier" mood), ethnic Mongolian string sections, various muted "evil sounding" brass articulations, plus huge ensembles featuring many combined patches, make it capable of creating so many different styles. The possibilities are virtually endless.

Plus the interface is very appealing (there are 3 different skins already!) and everything loads in an instant.

Having said all that, I trust that Sonuscore has done an excellent job with Opus Orchestrator as well, with better sounds, but a little less variety.


----------



## shamcra

alir1296 said:


> Ok I've downloaded Opus and the Orchestrator, but can't see anything about the Orchestrator in Opus. I've looked under the 'Perform' tab but can only see 'Zones' and 'All Instances'. Anyone know how to fix this please?


It should show up under "libraries".





About the problems with orchestrator's license:
"If you have the issue where you have it all installed, but you're getting a Missing .key error when trying to load up the Orchestrator, we're still in the process of getting that fixed - more info on that to come" From EW facebook page 30 min ago.


----------



## Vadium

Question to happy Hoopus owners - how many articulations possible per 1 instrument? Is it possible to switch articulation by PrCh, or notes only?


----------



## Frederick

Geomir said:


> Exactly, Sonuscore is behind that.
> 
> Better sound (as you said), most probably yes. "Expanded", most probably not.
> 
> Imho the variety of presets in the Orchestra Complete 2 is amazing, and I don't think it will be the case with EWHO Opus. With TOC2 you get from fairy-tale enchanting-dreamy ones, up to epic loud ones, and everything in between.
> 
> Male and female choirs, grand piano, symphonic pipe organ, specialized string patches like sul ponticello sustains and spicatto (perfect for "icy - glacier" mood), ethnic Mongolian string sections, various muted "evil sounding" brass articulations, plus huge ensembles featuring many combined patches, make it capable of creating so many different styles. The possibilities are virtually endless.
> 
> Plus the interface is very appealing (there are 3 different skins already!) and everything loads in an instant.
> 
> Having said all that, I trust that Sonuscore has done an excellent job with Opus Orchestrator as well, with better sounds, but a little less variety.


I think it's not one-sided: I don't recall seeing a solo violin or solo cello in TOC2, or am I mistaken? I think the percussion is more varied in the OPUS orchestrator as well. The winds have more articulations than the ones in TOC.


----------



## alir1296

shamcra said:


> It should show up under "libraries".





Nuno said:


> You have to load the Orchestrator from the


Ahh thank you both! Feel a bit silly for not having noticed that 😂


----------



## TCMQL1

Out of sheer curiosity, the first patches I loaded up were the solo violin and cello 'leg slur' patches. They sound a lot better! Pleasantly surprised. Wouldn't call them my new favorite violin or cello, but they actually seem usable now unlike the play versions.

There seems to be a difference in scripting between the KS 'leg slur' and just the 'leg slur' patch on its own though, the KS one seems closer to the old play version. Not sure what's going on there.


----------



## gamma-ut

Nuno said:


> Is it safe to buy from that site, is it legit?
> I can save €399 on a diamond license which is a pretty good deal!


They're legit: the owner's generally pretty responsive. I've bought from them for Waves things in the past.


----------



## Geomir

Frederick said:


> I think it's not one-sided: I don't recall seeing a solo violin or solo cello in TOC2, or am I mistaken? I think the percussion is more varied in the OPUS orchestrator as well. The winds have more articulations than the ones in TOC.


True! No solo strings in TOC2. I forgot about them because they were not included in the original EWHO. Still I don't consider them extremely important for this Orchestrator thing, since imho all these rhythmic tempo-based patterns are more fitting for sections or ensembles.

And true also: not many woodwinds articulations in TOC2. I suppose it's going to be the next TOC expansion, since the 1st was about Strings and the 2nd about Brass/Perc.

And sure EWHO percussion is more detailed than TOC2, but I would trade that for a grand piano, female/male choirs, and a massive pipe organ. You are opening completely new grounds with them! 

Still I am not pulling any trigger, I am going to wait for some walkthroughs first, official or not. But you had a good point in what you said, maybe Sonuscore managed in the end to offer the same great variety with all the EWHO Opus instruments included. Let's hope for that.


----------



## Frederick

Geomir said:


> True! No solo strings in TOC2. I forgot about them because they were not included in the original EWHO. Still I don't consider them extremely important for this Orchestrator thing, since imho all these rhythmic tempo-based patterns are more fitting for sections or ensembles.
> 
> And true also: not many woodwinds articulations in TOC2. I suppose it's going to be the next TOC expansion, since the 1st was about Strings and the 2nd about Brass/Perc.
> 
> And sure EWHO percussion is more detailed than TOC2, but I would trade that for a grand piano, female/male choirs, and a massive pipe organ. You are opening completely new grounds with them!
> 
> Still I am not pulling any trigger, I am going to wait for some walkthroughs first, official or not. But you had a good point in what you said, maybe Sonuscore managed in the end to offer the same great variety with all the EWHO Opus instruments included. Let's hope for that.


I also would like to have the piano, organ, choir, etc. Considering I own both orchestrators, I think I will use both in the sketch area of my template - if CPU usage permits.


----------



## AndyP

Since the licensing works via iLok, I am interested in how it behaves with OPUS when I plug the dongle and the SSD with the OPUS libraires into another computer. Is it enough to install only the OPUS Player or do I have to install things like the Orchestrator again?

With HOD I only needed Play on the computer and could move the hard drive and the dongle. Is it the same with OPUS?

Btw: The Orchestrator looks from the video much more variable and easier to use than TOC2 to me.


----------



## Geomir

Frederick said:


> I also would like to have the piano, organ, choir, etc. Considering I own both orchestrators, I think I will use both in the sketch area of my template - if CPU usage permits.


You could definitely do that to create something combined and huge! 

I think you can blend the 2 libraries very well without too much struggling, since they were both recorded in similar sized rooms (Studio 22 in Budapest is 280 m2 and EastWest Studio One is close to 230 m2). So both rooms result in a fairly dry, clean and punchy sound.


----------



## Tremendouz

Nuno said:


> Is it safe to buy from that site, is it legit?
> I can save €399 on a diamond license which is a pretty good deal!


It's legit, Batwaffel post deals from the site on r/audioproductiondeals on Reddit from time to time and he only posts legit deals there.

Are you sure it's €399 savings and not $399? The price is in dollars at everyplugin


----------



## Manakin Skywalker

No stop-muted trumpets still... I've been really hoping for some considering the original Hollywood Orchestra didn't have any. That's unfortunate.


----------



## RogiervG

Still no demo songs on their website.. only an orchestrator "walkthrough" and trailer.
Unbelievable bad communication/marketing.


----------



## Nuno

Tremendouz said:


> It's legit, Batwaffel post deals from the site on r/audioproductiondeals on Reddit from time to time and he only posts legit deals there.
> 
> Are you sure it's €399 savings and not $399? The price is in dollars at everyplugin


Ahh.. yes, my mistake. It's €269 of savings.
So, I will pay €578 at everyplugin (soundsonline price is €847 during pre-order) which is still a very good deal.
I am checking the price in euros on paypal.
I am from Portugal. The standard _VAT_ rate here is 23%!


----------



## Guffy

Still waiting for the license to arrive


----------



## sundrowned

Quite funny it's already cheaper on deal sites.


----------



## Geomir

AndyP said:


> Since the licensing works via iLok, I am interested in how it behaves with OPUS when I plug the dongle and the SSD with the OPUS libraires into another computer. Is it enough to install only the OPUS Player or do I have to install things like the Orchestrator again?
> 
> With HOD I only needed Play on the computer and could move the hard drive and the dongle. Is it the same with OPUS?
> 
> Btw: The Orchestrator looks from the video much more variable and easier to use than TOC2 to me.


I cannot imagine anything easier to use and anything more varied than TOC2's Orchestrator / Presets, but I suppose we will know more details about HOOPUS Orchestrator very soon. No matter what, I can totally trust Sonuscore's engine with EW sounds.


----------



## GhostRIde Media

This thread is like a Meme factory, Love it!!!


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Still a no-go with the license here so just messaged Support


----------



## BasariStudios

So basically its a FLOP since no one seems really excited.


----------



## Evans

BasariStudios said:


> So basically its a FLOP since no one seems really excited.


Seems like a few people were.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

BasariStudios said:


> So basically its a FLOP since no one seems really excited.


I have been. I think there is only so excited you can get about a VI though 🤣


----------



## tmhuud

Does that make it a FLOOPUS?


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

BasariStudios said:


> no one seems really excited.


I was. In December.


----------



## Project Anvil

BasariStudios said:


> So basically its a FLOP since no one seems really excited.


There's plenty to like about it. The wind ensembles are very nice. I'm less taken by the new 18 violins and while the new 2 trumpets sound a bit odd when trying to play softly (the leg transitions stick out quite bad), they do really blaze at higher dynamics.

I also do feel the woodwinds are actually improved. When I A/B with the old winds, the new ones seem a little further back into the space and the legato seems a little better (not a _lot_ though).

As I'm working on a short demo piece now, I do find that HOOPUS, like HWO, does take quite a bit longer to make sound nice and cohesive vs something like the Cinematic studio series, but it is more flexible in the mic positions.


----------



## gst98

Lewis Emblack said:


> Still a no-go with the license here so just messaged Support


From the Facebook comments it appears to be an ilok issue not EW.


----------



## BasariStudios

Evans said:


> Seems like a few people were.


Reading in details not necessarily. Most of them report the same HOD Sound issues.


----------



## Evans

BasariStudios said:


> Reading in details not necessarily. Most of them report the same HOD Sound issues.


What specifically about my post was inaccurate?


----------



## gsilbers

Does the orchestrator thing work with only one of the libraries ? Only new content or only old content?

it’s a huge library all together.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

gst98 said:


> From the Facebook comments it appears to be an ilok issue not EW.


Found the solution - select "reinstall OPUS" in the installation dropdown menu


----------



## Marsen

Geomir said:


> Plus the interface is very appealing (there are 3 different skins already!) and everything loads in an instant.


Fair point. The load of Orchestrator in the demo is quiet high.
So as always, there are cons and pros.


----------



## gst98

Lewis Emblack said:


> Found the solution - select "reinstall OPUS" in the installation dropdown menu


I'll give that a try. Are you on Mac, because apparently, it is a Mac-only issue. PC may have other problems.


----------



## cqd

The wind ensembles are lovely..
And the ability to just throw ensembles together via the orchestrator is class too..
The new violins definitely beat the old ones..
The new brass is definitely punchier the the old..
They could have definitely done more with the percussion I reckon..


----------



## Evans

cqd said:


> The wind ensembles are lovely..
> And the ability to just throw ensembles together via the orchestrator is class too..
> The new violins definitely beat the old ones..
> The new brass is definitely punchier the the old..
> They could have definitely done more with the percussion I reckon..


Sounds like we've got one prior user who says the woodwind solo legato is still disappointing, and another who says it might be slightly better, but not entirely fixed.

Can you please share any comment here?


----------



## d4vec4rter

gst98 said:


> I'll give that a try. Are you on Mac, because apparently, it is a Mac-only issue. PC may have other problems.


Didn't work for me I'm afraid. Still can't find the license key. I'm on PC.


----------



## Frederick

BasariStudios said:


> Reading in details not necessarily. Most of them report the same HOD Sound issues.


I've paid 510 Euro for the upgrade to OPUS - I already had all seven parts of HOD, so getting the solo instruments was not a bonus in my case. I think the value for money is okay. I would have paid 150 Euro for the new samples. The orchestrator is worth 250 Euro to me - considering I already own TOC2, but I'm definitely happy about getting the orchestrator.

So to me that's like paying 110 Euro for getting the new OPUS player right now. I suspect that it will be free in the future. Great thing about this is that it is not just for HOD but for all my EastWest libraries - all the choirs and vocal libraries, EWQLSO, Gypsy, Ra and Silk - I wasn't sure about this before I purchased the upgrade.

I think paying 540 Euro for MSS was a little worse as an investment. I've paid 450 Euro for Elite (full) and I think I'm about as happy with that investment as I am with OPUS. The VSL libraries are at a higher level, but everything VSL combined is also a lot more expensive than the EastWest libraries. I will probably keep buying VSL libraries, but for EastWest this is most likely my last purchase.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

gst98 said:


> I'll give that a try. Are you on Mac, because apparently, it is a Mac-only issue. PC may have other problems.


Ah no, I'm on PC and they put that fix on their FB page. Hope MAC gets sorted soon for you.


----------



## cqd

Evans said:


> Sounds like we've got one prior user who says the woodwind solo legato is still disappointing, and another who says it might be slightly better, but not entirely fixed.
> 
> Can you please share any comment here?


Ok.. full disclosure..I didn't think the woodwinds were as hideously bad as everyone makes out they are..

Honestly.. they seem fine man.. pulled them all up here and played through them all with the mono true legato enabled..and they seem perfect Tbh..and I prefer the tone to most other woodwinds..

So.. make of that what you will..


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

Is the orchestrator working for everyone? Do you need all of the samples downloaded before it will run, because I'm getting a 'Could not find licence error' even though I'm on a composer cloud x subscription.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

d4vec4rter said:


> Didn't work for me I'm afraid. Still can't find the license key. I'm on PC.


If there is a license in your iLok it should work. Maybe try uninstalling and reinstalling?


----------



## d4vec4rter

Lewis Emblack said:


> If there is a license in your iLok it should work. Maybe try uninstalling and reinstalling?


I do have a license in my iLok and I have re-installed the Opus software.


----------



## Lazer42

To me the new player really is a success, at least so far. I can easily see this going from being a library I just never used because of the player limitations (not because it was unstable or anything - I always found Play to be perfectly stable - but because of what it didn't do) to something I use all the time because the new player has added quite a few new and useful features. It really is that much of a difference.

Now the new sounds? I haven't messed around with them enough to judge how good I think they are. The reality is that I was never too excited about getting the new samples, largely because it is only a few sections here and there rather than a whole new orchestra or a whole new string section or something like that. They're just.... new samples. On the surface they sound largely similar to the old ones.

The moods don't strike me as something I'll use. They don't sound that different to me, although in fairness I have never really found different microphone options to sound different to me. 

Still, I consider this a successful product because of the added features to the player itself. Now my reaction may be quite different from others' because I am a CC subscriber; I get these new features "for free." If I were someone who was looking at upgrading my own license, I'd be in the position where I'd really want to get into Opus for what it offers, but I would be very skeptical that it's worth a $500 price tag just for that. I think the way I'd look at it would be that for $500 I could either get a new sample player with a few new features for the samples I already owned, or I could buy a whole new product from someone else with all new samples, and I think that latter option would be the one that would make the most sense in that situation.


----------



## cqd

You love the orchestrator really though, don't you Lazer..


----------



## HardyP

SlHarder said:


> Going to bed ...


what a silly message, (dis)honoring diamond jubilee post #5000...

Or is it just symptomatic of this whole thread, so from that perspective intentional...?!?


----------



## Evans

Lazer42 said:


> The moods don't strike me as something I'll use. They don't sound that different to me, although in fairness I have never really found different microphone options to sound different to me.


This is what I'm expecting for Moods for myself. For some libraries, changing the mics up quite dramatically alters the sound (AROOF) or at least help position or bloom instruments quite differently (Berlin series, Cinematic Studio Series). But EWHO was never that dramatic, to my ears, so I'm not sure how the "mood" can be entirely different with the same old mics.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

d4vec4rter said:


> I do have a license in my iLok and I have re-installed the Opus software.


Get in touch with Support then as they are pretty responsive at the moment - I opened a ticket before I found the thing on FB and they emailed me back in 15 minutes.


----------



## Alfeus Aditya

I get really annoying loud white noise every few minutes after opening the opus. Anyone experienced it?


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Evans said:


> This is what I'm expecting for Moods for myself. For some libraries, changing the mics up quite dramatically alters the sound (AROOF) or at least help position or bloom instruments quite differently (Berlin series, Cinematic Studio Series). But EWHO was never that dramatic, to my ears, so I'm not sure how the "mood" can be entirely different with the same old mics.


I think it is best just to see moods like the Orchestrator presets - just to get you in the ballpark quicker 🤷‍♂️


----------



## SlHarder

BronzeOrbiter said:


> Is the orchestrator working for everyone? Do you need all of the samples downloaded before it will run, because I'm getting a 'Could not find licence error' even though I'm on a composer cloud x subscription.


Support says it's an Ilok bug issue that will get fixed Wed.


----------



## Alfeus Aditya

I noticed that the Eb3 on the new trombone sus patch had an odd release


----------



## AndyP

I cannot install the Solo instruments. First I get the error message that I need the installer disk. If I click the message away I see the ZIP files being installed on my SSD. But after that I don't see the folders anymore and the installation center doesn't find them either. The zip or installed files seem to be hidden on the disk.
Reassigning the folder path does not help either.

Otherwise the update works with my old Diamant installation, OPUS is up and running, only the Solo instruments are missing.


----------



## cqd

AndyP said:


> I cannot install the Solo instruments. First I get the error message that I need the installer disk. If I click the message away I see the ZIP files being installed on my SSD. But after that I don't see the folders anymore and the installation center doesn't find them either. The zip or installed files seem to be hidden on the disk.
> Reassigning the folder path does not help either.
> 
> Otherwise the update works with my old Diamant installation, OPUS is up and running, only the Solo instruments are missing.


Check did they install into your east west installer folder on the c drive..I had to move mine.. they didn't download right the first couple of times either..


----------



## AndyP

cqd said:


> Check did they install into your east west installer folder on the c drive..I had to move mine.. they didn't download right the first couple of times either..


The installation path is directly to the SSD where I have my EW libraries. I am trying again with the Solo Violin. I see the zip files ... after unpacking probably nothing more.


----------



## cqd

AndyP said:


> The installation path is directly to the SSD where I have my EW libraries. I am trying again with the Solo Violin. I see the zip files ... after unpacking probably nothing more.


I had issues with them earlier anyway.. Following advice here I deleted the installation bpaths in in EW installer.. closed it.. reopened it and re added the paths.. that sorted it.. but they still installed to the c drive and I had to move them..


----------



## BRVLN

First impressions:

*Overall:*
This really feels like the "Lite" version of what Hollywood Orchestra used to be.

With HO I had every patch I needed for any situation. With Opus, they kinda bundled everything together to very few patches. I personally hate the Slur+Port legato combos...
I don't understand why they got rid of so many patches in the previous HO library.

The "mood" changes nothing except the mics that are loaded and the ratio between them (and consord for strings in the soft passion). I think pro users usually like to dial things themselves. And to me having to turn off the surround mic every time I load a patch is a time waste...

Even the preferences are watered down... Can't fine-tune the settings as I could in Play and I'm getting more note cutoffs than I did using Play (I'm using a 28-core Mac Pro with 192GB of RAM running off SSD's for god sake!!).

*As far as sound:*
When I A/B HO & Opus and hear *no difference *whatsoever in terms of sound. (If anything I like how Play reacts to my playing better).

*Orchestrator:*
I found one or two patches that I really liked and see myself use in my template (usually legato stuff in octaves).
But the playability is flimsy and the engine is having a hard time to figure out the legato stuff inside of chords and this makes for weird artifacts in sound (at best) and occasionally notes being cut off (more than you think).

It's a nice novelty. But again, feels targeted *way more* towards amateur composers or composers in a hurry trying to finish a gig that pays too low for them to orchestrate stuff for them.
I will say, it's great for orchestration ideas, or maybe as a learning tool, but I don't see myself use it a lot.

I'm giving this a 4/10.
Because of price to what you're getting ratio. It's nothing new (most things we had already in HO and more) and I feel it's a downgrade from play.
IMHO


----------



## AndyP

cqd said:


> I had issues with them earlier anyway.. Following advice here I deleted the installation bpaths in in EW installer.. closed it.. reopened it and re added the paths.. that sorted it.. but they still installed to the c drive and I had to move them..


I am on a Mac and the ZIP files end up where they are supposed to. I changed the computer for the installation now, I am curious what happens ...

But on the other machine I got so far that the ZIP files ended up on the SSD ... then the installation disappeared into nirvana. I have the feeling the files are still hidden ... Maybe I will find more later via the console.


----------



## Alfeus Aditya

Alfeus Aditya said:


> I get really annoying loud white noise every few minutes after opening the opus. Anyone experienced it?


Am I the only one experiencing it? This is very annoying. This happens when i load some patch randomly


----------



## gst98

BRVLN said:


> First impressions:
> 
> *Overall:*
> This really feels like the "Lite" version of what Hollywood Orchestra used to be.
> 
> With HO I had every patch I needed for any situation. With Opus, they kinda bundled everything together to very few patches. I personally hate the Slur+Port legato combos...
> I don't understand why they got rid of so many patches in the previous HO library.
> 
> The "mood" changes nothing except the mics that are loaded and the ratio between them (and consord for strings in the soft passion). I think pro users usually like to dial things themselves. And to me having to turn off the surround mic every time I load a patch is a time waste...
> 
> Even the preferences are watered down... Can't fine-tune the settings as I could in Play and I'm getting more note cutoffs than I did using Play (I'm using a 28-core Mac Pro with 192GB of RAM running off SSD's for god sake!!).
> 
> *As far as sound:*
> When I A/B HO & Opus and hear *no difference *whatsoever in terms of sound. (If anything I like how Play reacts to my playing better).
> 
> *Orchestrator:*
> I found one or two patches that I really liked and see myself use in my template (usually legato stuff in octaves).
> But the playability is flimsy and the engine is having a hard time to figure out the legato stuff inside of chords and this makes for weird artifacts in sound (at best) and occasionally notes being cut off (more than you think).
> 
> It's a nice novelty. But again, feels targeted *way more* towards amateur composers or composers in a hurry trying to finish a gig that pays too low for them to orchestrate stuff for them.
> I will say, it's great for orchestration ideas, or maybe as a learning tool, but I don't see myself use it a lot.
> 
> I'm giving this a 4/10.
> Because of price to what you're getting ratio. It's nothing new (most things we had already in HO and more) and I feel it's a downgrade from play.
> IMHO


Only spent a short of time with it but a quick glance will show you that there are eq's on the moods, it affects velocity curves and overall volume. Not revolutionary but not sure if people were expecting anything more tbh.

Not saying I think the new stuff is great. New brass is a bit underwhelming, even though the range of arts is great the tone is a bit sterile. Violins are better than many other legatos out there but not as good as the old patches. nowhere near as nimble but a smooth tone. Woodwinds are okay but more excited to see the changes made to the old stuff.

The solo strings are lightyears better than the old junk. Very usable now.

Can't license the Orchestrator for now. and yes there is lots better with OPUS but some features are missing (like I don't see controls to turn off Con Sord other than the CC). One thing I really wanted was to be able to set the velocity threshold for port/slur/bc, haven't found it (if it's there at all).


----------



## gst98

Alfeus Aditya said:


> Am I the only one experiencing it? This is very annoying


I had that, just let it install properly and restart the player.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cqd said:


> Ok.. full disclosure..I didn't think the woodwinds were as hideously bad as everyone makes out they are..
> 
> Honestly.. they seem fine man.. pulled them all up here and played through them all with the mono true legato enabled..and they seem perfect Tbh..and I prefer the tone to most other woodwinds..
> 
> So.. make of that what you will..


Check out the solo clarinet legatos, it has phasing between the legato transitions. This is an issue that still persists.


----------



## Alfeus Aditya

gst98 said:


> I had that, just let it install properly and restart the player.


I have tried reinstalling it, and this also happens with the old patch. OPUS seems to fail to load and what you hear is only loud white noise


----------



## cqd

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Check out the solo clarinet legatos, it has phasing between the legato transitions. This is an issue that still persists.


With the mono true legato?..
Seemed alright Tbh..


----------



## dzilizzi

Nuno said:


> Is it safe to buy from that site, is it legit?
> I can save €399 on a diamond license which is a pretty good deal!


Yes. Everyplugin.com is a safe site. They give the best prices on Waves products as well, though I've forgotten the extra discount code. (Waves only)


----------



## RyanRhea

cqd said:


> I had issues with them earlier anyway.. Following advice here I deleted the installation bpaths in in EW installer.. closed it.. reopened it and re added the paths.. that sorted it.. but they still installed to the c drive and I had to move them..


This fixed it for me. Nicely done, sir! 🤟🏻


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

BRVLN said:


> When I A/B HO & Opus and hear *no difference *whatsoever in terms of sound.


Actually, I completely agree. Maybe it's a placebo for some users?? I almost feel robbed of articulations, seems too watered down now IMO.


----------



## cqd

Were ye expecting it to sound different?..


----------



## Nimrod7

Mac troubleshooting to whichever:

- is having issues installing either single instruments
- receiving an error to Install the library from a physical drive
- Receiving an "out of space error"

First, check in EW Installation Center if you can uninstall & reinstall by clicking the cog wheel:






If that doesn't work (*DISCLAIMER: DO ON YOUR OWN RISK, BETTER NOT DELETE BUT MOVE THE FILES MENTIONED*):

Open Finder -> Go to /Library/Application Support/East West/Opus/
(not ~/Library but the /Library folder, they are different)

delete InstalledProducts.json

Try again, to reinstall, if it doesn't work:

At the same folder above:
examine the log folder, and try to understand what is causing the issue.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cqd said:


> Were ye expecting it to sound different?..


Well, when they say "reimagined original content", then yes. I also don't see the point in the new additions (18 violins, etc), not sure how the upgrade price is justified. I do, however, really like the new Opus engine. Very slick.


----------



## Project Anvil

BRVLN said:


> And to me having to turn off the surround mic every time I load a patch is a time waste...


*EDIT: while I do get just the main mic loaded on that patch now when I create a new OPUS instance, it does seem to switch the surround mic back in if I change moods.*

There is potentially a way to fix that. I dug around a little in the new files and found a way to stop that from happening. There is a preset file for every patch, by adding in this:



Code:


    {
        "path": "mixer/sub:3/active",
        "original": true,
        "value": false
    }


In the Classic.preset file of a given patch, the SRND mic will be disabled.

Trouble is, there are tons of these files, so I will probably just have to script something to append this to every Classic.preset file.

So, to give a very specific example. I opened up this path on my system (your com.eastwest.### may be different):

E:\EWQL Hollywood Brass Diamond\Presets\com.eastwest.8020\2 French Horns\01 Long\2FH LegRep RRx4\Classic.preset

Just open it in notepad, it's a JSON file.

These are now the final lines of my preset file:



Code:


        {
            "path": "mixer/fx:0/volume",
            "original": 0.08933044970035553,
            "value": 0.5888436436653137
        },
    {
        "path": "mixer/sub:3/active",
        "original": true,
        "value": false
    }
    ]
}


There are other interesting values in there too that I may try to poke. I'm especially curious what "filters/Legato3/FADE_IN_BRK" is, and I've also noticed that there is a global group of parameters that has a sample start value (which could possibly be altered through the .preset file).


----------



## Tremendouz

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Actually, I completely agree. Maybe it's a placebo for some users?? I almost feel robbed of articulations, seems too watered down now IMO. I also wish they had not removed the Niente patches.


If you check out the manual it says that all the patches now fade to silence so there's no need for the Niente moniker in the patch names.


----------



## Mike Fox

Can’t wait to hear StayPuft’s demo!


----------



## AndyP

Nimrod7 said:


> Mac troubleshooting to whichever:
> 
> - is having issues installing either single instruments
> - receiving an error to Install the library from a physical drive
> - Receiving an "out of space error"
> 
> First, check in EW Installation Center if you can uninstall & reinstall by clicking the cog wheel:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that doesn't work (*DISCLAIMER: DO ON YOUR OWN RISK, BETTER NOT DELETE BUT MOVE THE FILES MENTIONED*):
> 
> Open Finder -> Go to /Library/Application Support/East West/Opus/
> (not ~/Library but the /Library folder, they are different)
> 
> delete InstalledProducts.json
> 
> Try again, to reinstall, if it doesn't work:
> 
> At the same folder above:
> examine the log folder, and try to understand what is causing the issue.


The problem drives me crazy. I was able to install the Solo Violin now. And then the installation center puts a path in the Applications folder again for Harp and Cello and I can't get rid of it.
The ZIP files are downloaded to the SSD and when unpacking the idiotic tool tries to copy the files to my local hard drive which alone fails because admin rights are required (but they are not even requested).
This is the worst installer I have ever seen.

I will try your tip, thanks for that. what happens here is only based on coincidence and a config that does what it wants.


----------



## driamsht

In my case, the app's visual doesn't look correct. I've already reinstalled it a couple of time. Could some of you let me know how to fix this one?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Tremendouz said:


> If you check out the manual it says that all the patches now fade to silence so there's no need for the Niente moniker in the patch names.


Not with the MOD wheel anymore. You need to assign the CC. Still reading the manual, I might be missing something.


----------



## itsrainingben

Alfeus Aditya said:


> I get really annoying loud white noise every few minutes after opening the opus. Anyone experienced it?


Same here - works for a bit then massive white noise/static. Loading a new instance takes it away but then it comes back again.


----------



## Tremendouz

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Not with the MOD wheel anymore. You need to assign the CC. Still reading the manual, I might be missing something


I know that some patches in the old HO used expression for the dynamics (yes, not volume but dynamics) while modwheel controlled the vibrato (when applicable). Patches without vibrato control used modwheel.


----------



## Alfeus Aditya

itsrainingben said:


> Same here - works for a bit then massive white noise/static. Loading a new instance takes it away but then it comes back again.


 Yeah..

OK, that's enough. OPUS is not ready yet for me. Mainly due to the strong white noise randomly appearing in certain patches (especially the old library winds and strings).
This keeps happening even in standalone software.

*I am on mac, high sierra, using SSD for the library

Other than that, I am happy with the purge function, thanks EW.


----------



## BRVLN

I just really miss the Marc Legato patches in the strings...
I use them all the time! (Way more useable than the Stac Legato)...
And if I need to use Play for that, why did I pay so much for the upgrade??


----------



## Olang

itsrainingben said:


> Same here - works for a bit then massive white noise/static. Loading a new instance takes it away but then it comes back again.


Experienced this with "Violas Marc Sus LITE". The close mic is bugged, almost went deaf!


----------



## gamma-ut

AndyP said:


> The problem drives me crazy. I was able to install the Solo Violin now. And then the installation center puts a path in the Applications folder again for Harp and Cello and I can't get rid of it.
> The ZIP files are downloaded to the SSD and when unpacking the idiotic tool tries to copy the files to my local hard drive which alone fails because admin rights are required (but they are not even requested).
> This is the worst installer I have ever seen.
> 
> I will try your tip, thanks for that. what happens here is only based on coincidence and a config that does what it wants.


I've only done it for the harp so far but I wound up digging out the hard drive and copied over the folders for the harp from that and located the "EW Hollywood Harp Diamond" folder in the Installation Center. It didn't quite work with on the first attempt but it seemed to be happy with a reinstall from that point.

I'm wondering whether it just needs a folder with the right name to download into rather than the files but haven't tried that yet (still downloading the brass updates).


----------



## dzilizzi

driamsht said:


> In my case, the app's visual doesn't look correct. I've already reinstalled it a couple of time. Could some of you let me know how to fix this one?


Looks like you got the minimalists version.


----------



## itsrainingben

Alfeus Aditya said:


> Yeah..
> 
> OK, that's enough. OPUS is not ready yet for me. Mainly due to the strong white noise randomly appearing in certain patches (especially the old library winds and strings).
> This keeps happening even in standalone software.
> 
> *I am on mac, high sierra, using SSD for the library
> 
> Other than that, I am happy with the purge function, thanks EW.


White noise aside, I'm curious how you know what the new samples are vs the old one? Have downloaded the opus versions and there's no way to differentiate (at least on my view) between what's opus and what's regular HO?


----------



## Olang

Also, the Midi controller mapping UI does absolutely* nothing, *but at least it shows you the CC controls...


----------



## dzilizzi

Can you redownload the whole thing? I got the drive version a couple years ago and kept getting error messages copying files that the file names were too long. (Windows 7 machine) Hoping if I download to the windows 10 machine, I can get the missing patches, if they are still there. 

Are any Windows users getting white noise? It sounds like a demo thing. Every few minutes you get white noise to prevent actual use of the product.


----------



## Soundbed

BRVLN said:


> First impressions:
> 
> *Overall:*
> This really feels like the "Lite" version of what Hollywood Orchestra used to be.
> 
> With HO I had every patch I needed for any situation. With Opus, they kinda bundled everything together to very few patches. I personally hate the Slur+Port legato combos...
> I don't understand why they got rid of so many patches in the previous HO library.
> 
> The "mood" changes nothing except the mics that are loaded and the ratio between them (and consord for strings in the soft passion). I think pro users usually like to dial things themselves. And to me having to turn off the surround mic every time I load a patch is a time waste...
> 
> Even the preferences are watered down... Can't fine-tune the settings as I could in Play and I'm getting more note cutoffs than I did using Play (I'm using a 28-core Mac Pro with 192GB of RAM running off SSD's for god sake!!).
> 
> *As far as sound:*
> When I A/B HO & Opus and hear *no difference *whatsoever in terms of sound. (If anything I like how Play reacts to my playing better).
> 
> *Orchestrator:*
> I found one or two patches that I really liked and see myself use in my template (usually legato stuff in octaves).
> But the playability is flimsy and the engine is having a hard time to figure out the legato stuff inside of chords and this makes for weird artifacts in sound (at best) and occasionally notes being cut off (more than you think).
> 
> It's a nice novelty. But again, feels targeted *way more* towards amateur composers or composers in a hurry trying to finish a gig that pays too low for them to orchestrate stuff for them.
> I will say, it's great for orchestration ideas, or maybe as a learning tool, but I don't see myself use it a lot.
> 
> I'm giving this a 4/10.
> Because of price to what you're getting ratio. It's nothing new (most things we had already in HO and more) and I feel it's a downgrade from play.
> IMHO


Holy mackerel.


----------



## cqd

Olang said:


> Experienced this with "Violas Marc Sus LITE". The close mic is bugged, almost went deaf!


Fine here anyway..


----------



## MarcelM

so any opinion about the new recorded samples? i mean that some people like an orchestrator or some eq settings is ok, but for me personally this is all pretty useless stuff.

from what ive read so far its not worth the price to upgrade from HO diamond, but i might be wrong maybe.


----------



## cqd

BRVLN said:


> I just really miss the Marc Legato patches in the strings...
> I use them all the time! (Way more useable than the Stac Legato)...
> And if I need to use Play for that, why did I pay so much for the upgrade??


Did you try just turning on legato on the Marc Sus patches?


----------



## AndyP

Nimrod7 said:


> Mac troubleshooting to whichever:
> 
> - is having issues installing either single instruments
> - receiving an error to Install the library from a physical drive
> - Receiving an "out of space error"
> 
> First, check in EW Installation Center if you can uninstall & reinstall by clicking the cog wheel:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that doesn't work (*DISCLAIMER: DO ON YOUR OWN RISK, BETTER NOT DELETE BUT MOVE THE FILES MENTIONED*):
> 
> Open Finder -> Go to /Library/Application Support/East West/Opus/
> (not ~/Library but the /Library folder, they are different)
> 
> delete InstalledProducts.json
> 
> Try again, to reinstall, if it doesn't work:
> 
> At the same folder above:
> examine the log folder, and try to understand what is causing the issue.


Unfortunately, this does not solve my problem. The wrong path remains in the installation center and I can't change it. I have opened a support ticket.
Uninstall does not work either because they are not installed yet.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Haven't pre-ordered, but read through the manual: looks all the same. I expected more innovation. Midi tools and key switches are "standard" tools for me, no innovations. 

What I didn't like in the past and still don't like:

Moods use up to three mics. Would be better to have a single mix-down. How is the RAM usage compared to PLAY?
Controller assignments (CC1, CC11) aren't unified and you still don't know which one controls expression, vibrato and dynamics; unless you read the description/manual.
Still a lot of patches. I thought it would be more innovative or modern. Could have been streamlined into "smart" or "performance" patches which combine some articulations via velocity, speed etc.
What about this scripting language? Couldn't find any information.
But I want to hear the woodwinds and the solo strings. Not sure if these will convince me to pull the trigger, I don't think so... unfortunately.


----------



## Nimrod7

AndyP said:


> And then the installation center puts a path in the Applications folder again for Harp and Cello and I can't get rid of it.


Something I tried and it worked, but once, not sure if it will work on your case.

When it was pointing to applications folder, I went into the EW Installer, Settings -> Library Directories, and added another Hard Drive (that I was not intenting to use), just to have 2 drives and be able to switch the "default" Library drive. Once I switched "default" back to the original drive and closed the settings, the non installed libraries jumped from Applications to the correct drive and I was able to install.

Hope it makes sense


----------



## Mike Fox

BRVLN said:


> It's a nice novelty. But again, feels targeted *way more* towards amateur composers or composers in a hurry trying to finish a gig that pays too low for them to orchestrate stuff for them.


You mean people who actually believed that they’d be composing blockbuster soundtracks in seconds?


----------



## AndyP

Nimrod7 said:


> Something I tried and it worked, but once, not sure if it will work on your case.
> 
> When it was pointing to applications folder, I went into the EW Installer, Settings -> Library Directories, and added another Hard Drive (that I was not intenting to use), just to have 2 drives and be able to switch the "default" Library drive. Once I switched "default" back to the original drive and closed the settings, the non installed libraries jumped from Applications to the correct drive and I was able to install.
> 
> Hope it makes sense


Nope, doesn't work here.


----------



## cqd

Mike Fox said:


> You mean people who actually believed that they’d be composing blockbuster soundtracks in seconds?


I've made 8 hours of music since this morning..


----------



## Mike Fox

cqd said:


> I've made 8 hours of music since this morning..


Is it a blockbuster soundtrack?


----------



## Alfeus Aditya

itsrainingben said:


> White noise aside, I'm curious how you know what the new samples are vs the old one? Have downloaded the opus versions and there's no way to differentiate (at least on my view) between what's opus and what's regular HO?


What I experienced, the white noise only occurs in the old library (eg 1st violins, 2nd violins, viola, celli, all solo woodwinds) but I did not experience it on the new ones (*18 violins and ensemble or winds ensemble*, which was only downloaded after the OPUS update)


----------



## cqd

Mike Fox said:


> Is it a blockbuster soundtrack?


The blocks are busted..


----------



## Alfeus Aditya

Olang said:


> Experienced this with "Violas Marc Sus LITE". The close mic is bugged, almost went deaf!


And after the noise appears, it will continue to appear throughout the library (in this example, all violas pacthes)


----------



## Johnny

cqd said:


>



First user demo!


Mike Fox said:


> You mean people who actually believed that they’d be composing blockbuster soundtracks in seconds?


----------



## SlHarder

HardyP said:


> what a silly message, (dis)honoring diamond jubilee post #5000...


I hadn't noticed I was the #5k.

I did wonder about all the fireworks going off in my neighborhood as I tried to get to sleep.


----------



## Lazer42

cqd said:


> You love the orchestrator really though, don't you Lazer..


Eh, it's not as bad as I thought it would be. Actually, hands on the presets seem a lot _less_ featured than the demo made them seem, so ironically I like it better because the product is not as "good" as I expected!


----------



## dzilizzi

Mike Fox said:


> You mean people who actually believed that they’d be composing blockbuster soundtracks in seconds?


Hey, how do you know that my movie of the cat throwing up a hairball isn't going to be a blockbuster movie? So if it is a blockbuster, then any soundtrack made for it will be a blockbuster soundtrack. Thus, there is a potential, I will be composing a blockbuster soundtrack. #IrrationalLogic


----------



## Lazer42

Evans said:


> This is what I'm expecting for Moods for myself. For some libraries, changing the mics up quite dramatically alters the sound (AROOF) or at least help position or bloom instruments quite differently (Berlin series, Cinematic Studio Series). But EWHO was never that dramatic, to my ears, so I'm not sure how the "mood" can be entirely different with the same old mics.


Actually, I also find the "Soft" mood to sound more epic than the "epic" mood. Ha.


----------



## Lazer42

BRVLN said:


> First impressions:
> 
> *Overall:*
> This really feels like the "Lite" version of what Hollywood Orchestra used to be.
> 
> With HO I had every patch I needed for any situation. With Opus, they kinda bundled everything together to very few patches. I personally hate the Slur+Port legato combos...
> I don't understand why they got rid of so many patches in the previous HO library.
> 
> The "mood" changes nothing except the mics that are loaded and the ratio between them (and consord for strings in the soft passion). I think pro users usually like to dial things themselves. And to me having to turn off the surround mic every time I load a patch is a time waste...
> 
> Even the preferences are watered down... Can't fine-tune the settings as I could in Play and I'm getting more note cutoffs than I did using Play (I'm using a 28-core Mac Pro with 192GB of RAM running off SSD's for god sake!!).
> 
> *As far as sound:*
> When I A/B HO & Opus and hear *no difference *whatsoever in terms of sound. (If anything I like how Play reacts to my playing better).
> 
> *Orchestrator:*
> I found one or two patches that I really liked and see myself use in my template (usually legato stuff in octaves).
> But the playability is flimsy and the engine is having a hard time to figure out the legato stuff inside of chords and this makes for weird artifacts in sound (at best) and occasionally notes being cut off (more than you think).
> 
> It's a nice novelty. But again, feels targeted *way more* towards amateur composers or composers in a hurry trying to finish a gig that pays too low for them to orchestrate stuff for them.
> I will say, it's great for orchestration ideas, or maybe as a learning tool, but I don't see myself use it a lot.
> 
> I'm giving this a 4/10.
> Because of price to what you're getting ratio. It's nothing new (most things we had already in HO and more) and I feel it's a downgrade from play.
> IMHO


One thing I didn't realize at first is that the keyswitch patches for each instrument type appear to contain a _lot_ of different articulations, but many of them are turned off/unloaded at first. You might find some of the old ones you are missing in there.


----------



## kingy10kingy

Why are there no walkthroughs of the new patches? Have the old patches been massively improved?


----------



## BRVLN

cqd said:


> Did you try just turning on legato on the Marc Sus patches?


It just doesn't respond the same way.
The Marc Legato patches were so playable! Can't get the same attack (not too harsh, not too soft, just right!)


----------



## BRVLN

Mike Fox said:


> You mean people who actually believed that they’d be composing blockbuster soundtracks in seconds?


Honestly, if it was working right I see myself using it and then adding things to it!
Not the pre-made stuff obviously! But having chords arrange themselves while playing is kind of amazing and *very* useful! It just doesn't work well and a lot of legato notes are getting cut off... =\


----------



## sIR dORT

I haven't read every post, but what I'm gathering *so far* is that, for $500+, you're getting:

- A purge function
- Mic combo presets
- A few new instruments/ensembles
- Less control over patch choices
- A good sketching tool
- Some new programming on a few patches?
- A buggy engine (need to give them some time on this though)
- A lot of the same stuff

I want/need some of those (i.e. purge), but I can do without a lot of the others and/or find better and cheaper alternatives. For now I'm holding off, not sure if time will change my mind or not, we'll see.

DM


----------



## kingy10kingy

sIR dORT said:


> I haven't read every post, but what I'm gathering *so far* is that, for $500+, you're getting:
> 
> - A purge function
> - Mic combo presets
> - A few new instruments/ensembles
> - Less control over patch choices
> - A good sketching tool
> - Some new programming on a few patches?
> - A buggy engine (need to give them some time on this though)
> - A lot of the same stuff
> 
> I want/need some of those (i.e. purge), but I can do without a lot of the others and/or find better and cheaper alternatives. For now I'm holding off, not sure if time will change my mind or not, we'll see.
> 
> DM



Sounds like terrible value to me for $500 , and that's only for the upgrade! For that price I would have expected a Hollywood Orchestra 2 with brand new recordings. I don't want to sound too harsh though as I haven't actually heard it yet myself but there are zero videos or walkthroughs on it other than the orchestrator that doesn't go into much depth.


----------



## Mike Fox

BRVLN said:


> Honestly, if it was working right I see myself using it and then adding things to it!
> Not the pre-made stuff obviously! But having chords arrange themselves while playing is kind of amazing and *very* useful! It just doesn't work well and a lot of legato notes are getting cut off... =\


Do you think the lack of performance is frustrating enough to prevent users from even wanting to mess with it?

So far, it kinda reminds me of an old school Nintendo gimmick, like the Power Glove or Virtual Boy, lol!


----------



## Braveheart

I got it, and composed a new blockbuster trailer in seconds. I already got an offer to use it on the Braveheart sequel and I will also play lead acting.


----------



## AndyP

I have given up and am waiting for support. I have no chance to install the solo instruments. It worked exactly once with the solo violin, and that's it. The wrong path is burned into the installation center.


----------



## BRVLN

Mike Fox said:


> Do you think the lack of performance is frustrating enough to prevent users from even wanting to mess with it?
> 
> So far, it kinda reminds me of an old school Nintendo gimmick, like the Power Glove or Virtual Boy, lol!


That's not the issue, I don't think.
You can use any "gimmick" to your advantage and make it your own.
I think this actually has the potential to help pro composers get ideas and get their mockups sounding "finished" quicker. It's not a replacement. Definitely not.
But as long as it's unusable, it stays within the realms of an unusable gimmick...


----------



## cqd

Mike Fox said:


> Do you think the lack of performance is frustrating enough to prevent users from even wanting to mess with it?
> 
> So far, it kinda reminds me of an old school Nintendo gimmick, like the Power Glove or Virtual Boy, lol!


I actually think it will be a lot handier than that..
Not the scores, but just for like having textures for backing and stuff..


----------



## sIR dORT

kingy10kingy said:


> Sounds like terrible value to me for $500 , and that's only for the upgrade! For that price I would have expected a Hollywood Orchestra 2 with brand new recordings. I don't want to sound too harsh though as I haven't actually heard it yet myself but there are zero videos or walkthroughs on it other than the orchestrator that doesn't go into much depth.


Agreed. My post definitely wasn't a concrete view, just my opinion/observations about what I've found and what people have been saying. But the value of all these things doesn't add up to $500 for me.


----------



## gst98

sIR dORT said:


> I haven't read every post, but what I'm gathering *so far* is that, for $500+, you're getting:
> 
> - A purge function
> - Mic combo presets
> - A few new instruments/ensembles
> - Less control over patch choices
> - A good sketching tool
> - Some new programming on a few patches?
> - A buggy engine (need to give them some time on this though)
> - A lot of the same stuff
> 
> I want/need some of those (i.e. purge), but I can do without a lot of the others and/or find better and cheaper alternatives. For now I'm holding off, not sure if time will change my mind or not, we'll see.
> 
> DM


Yeah that's not not far off. Noone should buy it hoping for amazing new content. But I wouldn't call it a buggy engine though. It's been 100% stable for me so far. A couple of install problems.

You haven't lost control of everything. You can now add true legato to any patch, like trems which is great. There is anything obviously missing though. + The solo Instruments are actually pretty good now


----------



## EgM

gst98 said:


> You haven't lost control of everything. You can now add true legato to any patch, like trems which is great. There is anything obviously missing though. + The solo Instruments are actually pretty good now



Pretty sure that Legato button is scripted legato, not "True legato" which has to be recorded.


----------



## cqd

gst98 said:


> But I wouldn't call it a buggy engine though. It's been 100% stable for me so far.


I dunno.. it's looked a bit shaky here a couple of times..


----------



## RyanRhea

gst98 said:


> Yeah that's not not far off. Noone should buy it hoping for amazing new content. But I wouldn't call it a buggy engine though. It's been 100% stable for me so far. A couple of install problems.
> 
> You haven't lost control of everything. You can now add true legato to any patch, like trems which is great. There is anything obviously missing though. + The solo Instruments are actually pretty good now


So happy to hear your comment on the solos. 

Anyone else use the solo instruments yet? Are they significantly improved?


----------



## gst98

EgM said:


> Pretty sure that Legato button is scripted legato, not "True legato" which has to be recorded.


No it has both. It is very obvious when you go between the two.

It is just using the legato from the longs and adding it to the trems like you would in SINE or CAPSULE.


----------



## Nuno

Yes, my first impression is that the solo cello and violin legato are more playable now.


----------



## gst98

RyanRhea said:


> So happy to hear your comment on the solos.
> 
> Anyone else use the solo instruments yet? Are they significantly improved?


The Cello is still installing but the Violin is good. The bow change legato is a bit fake, but the slur is very good. Very pronounced, kinda like CSSS


----------



## ThomasS

AndyP said:


> I have given up and am waiting for support. I have no chance to install the solo instruments. It worked exactly once with the solo violin, and that's it. The wrong path is burned into the installation center.


Your problem is that you could not install the solo instruments. My problem is that I *have *been able to install them. They are not worth it. I won't say they sound terrible, but they do. Actually the harp is quite good, but I can't imagine ever using the solo Violin or Cello, because there are so many better ones out there. 

The rest of the library is great - sounds good and plays well for me so far.


----------



## EgM

gst98 said:


> No it has both. It is very obvious when you go between the two.
> 
> It is just using the legato from the longs and adding it to the trems like you would in SINE or CAPSULE.



Possible, can't tell right now still trying to reinstall my old HO Gold libs, missing samples...


----------



## Stuart Honeyman

Anyone aware of how you get the midi from the Orchestrator into your DAW (I use Reaper) ? In the manual it says:

'(*) For details how to record the MIDI output of Hollywood Orchestrator into your DAW, please contact Support. Please note that some DAWs do not support this.'

I've contacted support (why not put in in the manual though?) - but if anyone already knows how to do it with Reaper that'd be great.


----------



## Mike Fox

People saying that they can’t notice a difference between new and old content helps me understand why EW never showcased the new content. People would have been like, “Hey! That sounds just like the old HO!”.

So glad I didn’t jump on this. The engine doesn’t really appeal to me (at least, not in its current state) and if there isn’t a quality advancement in the new samples...what’s the point?

I sincerely hope the people who bought this feel like they got their money’s worth, and that they in fact will be composing lots of music with it! Blockbuster soundtrack or not.


----------



## AndyP

ThomasS said:


> Your problem is that you could not install the solo instruments. My problem is that I *have *been able to install them. They are not worth it. I won't say they sound terrible, but they do. Actually the harp is quite good, but I can't imagine ever using the solo Violin or Cello, because there are so many better ones out there.
> 
> The rest of the library is great - sounds good and plays well for me so far.


The solo violin (I only have this one at the moment) is actually quite decent. Not that I would use this now as such, I definitely have better ones.

Nevertheless, I would like to try the harp and the cello. When I think that I actually only wanted to have the new OPUS player ... a lot of money to get up to today's standards.

I test now what is there and see what I think of it.


----------



## gst98

EgM said:


> Possible, can't tell right now still trying to reinstall my old HO Gold libs, missing samples...


No, that is what's happening. Hardly a big conspiracy


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lazer42 said:


> Eh, it's not as bad as I thought it would be. Actually, hands on the presets seem a lot _less_ featured than the demo made them seem, so ironically I like it better because the product is not as "good" as I expected!


Told you so.


----------



## AndyP

The KS Master is now the patch of choice. fortunately the string divisi are also included and you can turn the articulations on and off, configure. However, the choice is limited to the range of the patch, it is not possible to assign or select all the variants that exist. It remains to be seen whether I am satisfied with the selection.
Alternatively, you can build a multipatch in an OPUS instance and assign keyswitches, layer and define zones there. This is the alternative as it looks like.

Edit: Activating all articulations results in heavy cpu load!


----------



## Toecutter

Mike Fox said:


> People saying that they can’t notice a difference between new and old content helps me understand why EW never showcased the new content. People would have been like, “Hey! That sounds just like the old HO!”.


I know I didn't. There were minor fixes like brass releases, things that should be fixed on regular HO to but the sound is the same. If anything I prefer the old content. New strings will not replace the old one that's for sure. 

I'm also experiencing the white noise bug, that scared the crap out of me... already reported


----------



## Lazer42

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Told you so.


You were definitely closer to the reality in your conclusion, but remember that your reasoning was that the product was _better_ and more useful than I thought, whereas my takeaway now is that it's not as bad as I thought because the product has turned out, in my opinion, to be _not _as good. I'm happy to be wrong, in any case.


----------



## Lazer42

AndyP said:


> However, the choice is limited to the range of the patch, it is not possible to assign or select all the variants that exist.


Can you clarify what you mean by this?


----------



## Wabashprof

BronzeOrbiter said:


> Is the orchestrator working for everyone? Do you need all of the samples downloaded before it will run, because I'm getting a 'Could not find licence error' even though I'm on a composer cloud x subscription.


I'm having the same problem and getting the same error message.


----------



## AndyP

Lazer42 said:


> Can you clarify what you mean by this?


For example, there are numerous strings in different variations. So the known patches from HS. In the Keyswitch patch, however, only a selection of them is available, which are used with the lease. I cannot add all patches as articulations.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Wabashprof said:


> I'm having the same problem and getting the same error message.


Support says this is a bug, working on an update.


----------



## AndyP

To me it sounds like the Woodwind legatos were improved. Flute 1 legato is better now.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

AndyP said:


> To me it sounds like the Woodwind legatos were improved. Flute 1 legato is better now.


What about the others? Flute 2 was always better, but still had problems.


----------



## EgM

What a nightmare installing the Opus content... I load a patch, loads up then you hit a note and window comes up saying missing samples. I think I'll delete everything and just redownload it all :(


----------



## Wabashprof

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Support says this is a bug, working on an update.


Just received the same message from support. Thanks for replying. Hope they sort this out soon.


----------



## William Hoshal

Initial experiences with Opus and Orchestrator....libraries and software downloaded and installed just fine. Plugin initialized and loaded. All instruments and patches seem to be available, and I've not experienced any of the noise issues that have been mentioned (I've only gone through about 60% of the patches). Sonic quality seems comparable to HO Diamond but with fewer articulation choices in some instances. Thus endeth the good news.
I'm running this on a Windows server rig via VEPro7 (controlled by Logic from an iMac Pro). The Opus machine has 128GB RAM and 12 core i9. CPU hit is substantial on many of the patches but livable. However, Orchestrator is an unholy mess. Patches, ensembles, scores, etc load....but that's about it. Orchestrator does not recognize BPM - locked at 1bpm and cannot be changed. Playing a note or chord results only in a very loud single note from all loaded instruments (with a lot of latency) and then stuck notes from any sustained patches. Sequencers for the instruments don't run, and the only way to kill the stuck notes is to turn off the audio engine at the VEPro mainframe level. So far, I've not been able to determine any problems on the DAW or VEPro side of things -- every other plugin, library and insert works as always -- so I'm left to believe the problem lies solely with Orchestrator.
Mind you, this is only my experience and using it within VEPro on a remote machine. I don't know if it performs correctly on a local machine, but I have no intention of moving 2 terabytes of East West libraries and de-authorizing/re-authorizing on my Mac to determine if it does. Release notes and publicity materials assured us that it would work in VEPro7.
Currently waiting on response from Customer Support.


----------



## Markrs

BronzeOrbiter said:


> Is the orchestrator working for everyone? Do you need all of the samples downloaded before it will run, because I'm getting a 'Could not find licence error' even though I'm on a composer cloud x subscription.


Same for me as well, hopefully they will fix this bug quite quickly


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

Wabashprof said:


> Just received the same message from support. Thanks for replying. Hope they sort this out soon.


Apparently It's Ilok's problem. I loathe ILok simply because it doesn't even prevent piracy very well and just punishes legitimate buyers'. Also because when I used to store licences on my machine, they always got locked after Windows updates and I had to email all the manufactures to get them reset.


----------



## Frederick

I have not encountered a single glitch, not during the installation process, nor in the opus player, nor with the orchestrator. I've been running it in Cubase Pro 11 on a laptop with 64GB and 8 core i7 CPU (10875H). Standalone also seems to work just fine for me.

Sorry to hear that so many people are experiencing problems. I'm surprised to find out how completely different in nature the problems are. I must have stepped through a minefield without noticing.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Can i ask where (for those who have it), the Orchestrator installs to?

When I first set mine up and installed it, it told me it is was going to place it in the Symphonic Orchestra Choirs Platinum Directory

Now I cannot get it to install anywhere but there, but I am sure it is not meant to be there in teh first place.
Surely it is just neant to installt to its own Dorectory...?


----------



## AndyP

At the moment I'm only testing on a 12 core MacPro with 64 GB ram, not yet the plugin in the DAW. 
HOD has always been hungry for resources, but now it feels even more so. The orchestrator produces a decent CPU load. I don't know if I will use it.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

AndyP said:


> The installation path is directly to the SSD where I have my EW libraries. I am trying again with the Solo Violin. I see the zip files ... after unpacking probably nothing more.


Hi Andy,

Could you please drop down the EW Hollywood Orchestrator Directory and take a shot of the folder structure?

Mine kept trying to install to the Symphonic Choirs Platinum Directory so I had to manually make mine and install it again (one thing I do not like about the Installation Center)

Thanks


----------



## SupremeFist

I for one am excited that, after many years of people complaining that HO had too many patches, we are now due more years of people complaining that HOOPUS doesn't have enough patches.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> Could you please drop down the EW Hollywood Orchestrator Directory and take a shot of the folder structure?
> 
> Mine kept trying to install to the Symphonic Choirs Platinum Directory so I had to manually make mine and install it again (one thing I do not like about the Installation Center)
> 
> Thanks


These what you are after?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Mine looks like this:


----------



## cqd

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> Could you please drop down the EW Hollywood Orchestrator Directory and take a shot of the folder structure?
> 
> Mine kept trying to install to the Symphonic Choirs Platinum Directory so I had to manually make mine and install it again (one thing I do not like about the Installation Center)
> 
> Thanks


I couldn't get the solo violin and cello to install where I wanted them either..had to move them myself..


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Lewis Emblack said:


> These what you are after?


Thanks Lewis

Seems that my guesstimate was correct


----------



## Robert_G

With all my GAS problems, it feels good to have absolutely zero desire to purchase this product. Perhaps I've attained a new level of being resistant against purchasing sample libraries....or perhaps OPUS is blatantly not worth the asking price. 

Let's face it....it's the latter. My GAS hasn't gone anywhere.....which means OPUS is probably severely overvalued to the point where even my GAS problem can't convince me to buy this.


----------



## AndyP

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> Could you please drop down the EW Hollywood Orchestrator Directory and take a shot of the folder structure?
> 
> Mine kept trying to install to the Symphonic Choirs Platinum Directory so I had to manually make mine and install it again (one thing I do not like about the Installation Center)
> 
> Thanks


This?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Thanks guys

Off to Church now to be techy again (run the Sound Desk there)

Then perhaps back for some cheeky HOOPUS until bed


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

AndyP said:


> This?


Yeah thanks

Mine checks out :D


----------



## Frederick

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Can i ask where (for those who have it), the Orchestrator installs to?
> 
> When I first set mine up and installed it, it told me it is was going to place it in the Symphonic Orchestra Choirs Platinum Directory
> 
> Now I cannot get it to install anywhere but there, but I am sure it is not meant to be there in teh first place.
> Surely it is just neant to installt to its own Dorectory...?


It's in my Play folder on my SSD for orchestral strings. It's next to the Symphonic Orchestra, but not inside it. It chose this folder all by itself.


----------



## Evans

Question: if you load up an instrument in the Orchestrator, how do you select the mics that get loaded with it? Does it pop it into the Play tab and you just go back and forth?


----------



## TCMQL1

Evans said:


> Question: if you load up an instrument in the Orchestrator, how do you select the mics that get loaded with it? Does it pop it into the Play tab and you just go back and forth?


Yup. All the instruments get loaded like normal instruments and you can access the usual interface for all of them via the play tab.


----------



## Frederick

Evans said:


> Question: if you load up an instrument in the Orchestrator, how do you select the mics that get loaded with it? Does it pop it into the Play tab and you just go back and forth?


Yes, I think so. If you have chosen the view with all the instruments on your left side, whilst in the orchestrator, you can indeed click on them and get the player screen where you also can set the mics.


----------



## Braveheart

Robert_G said:


> With all my GAS problems, it feels good to have absolutely zero desire to purchase this product. Perhaps I've attained a new level of being resistant against purchasing sample libraries....or perhaps OPUS is blatantly not worth the asking price.
> 
> Let's face it....it's the latter. My GAS hasn't gone anywhere.....which means OPUS is probably severely overvalued to the point where even my GAS problem can't convince me to buy this.


Don’t look at Orchestral Tools new product thread, or your GAS risk starting again...


----------



## kingy10kingy

Can someone on here post a patch walkthrough video on youtube ??


----------



## AndyP

cqd said:


> I couldn't get the solo violin and cello to install where I wanted them either..had to move them myself..


The problem here is that the installation path leads to /Application/East West/EW Installation Center.app/Contents/Resources
There you can not install anything. The zip files end up on the right disk, but not the folders when they are unpacked. So they disappear.
So I can't even copy from another source because there is nothing to copy. The path cannot be changed in the installation center. I have tried everything I can think of and everything that has been posted here.


----------



## Geomir

Now I also have 2 weird problems.

Let me start by saying I did NOT purchase EWHO Opus Edition. But I was prompted to update my EW Installation Center, which I did. And then I was prompted to download and install the new Opus Player and the Opus Support (or something like that), which I also did.

Now I can see in my EW Installation Center that "Opus Software is installed and up to date". So far so good! But:

1) Now I can ONLY see my "Installed Libraries" and my "Old Libraries" (LOL they put my original EWHO there just to tease me and force me emotionally to upgrade)! All the other available libraries (the ones that I don't own) have disappeared! Is this normal? In the past I could see all the libraries.

2) Also when I run my installed Opus Player, I get a message to activate it, but when I click next, and I put my iLok credentials correctly, I get a message that "I don't have any product licenses pending for activation", and so my only choice is to cancel. And so the Opus player will not start. Is this normal? Wasn't the Opus Player supposed to be free for all the non-EWHO libraries? Do I need to purchase a license just for the Player?

Anyone else here that did NOT purchase Opus but having the same issues after upgrading their EW Installation Center?

P.S. Of course I already opened a support ticket to EW already, but I don't know how much I will have to wait, since I can only guess that this is going to be a very difficult evening for their support dept...


----------



## kingy10kingy

Not saying Opus isn't good value because I haven't tried it myself but this made my laugh big time LOL


----------



## Evans

TCMQL1 said:


> Yup. All the instruments get loaded like normal instruments and you can access the usual interface for all of them via the play tab.





Frederick said:


> Yes, I think so. If you have chosen the view with all the instruments on your left side, whilst in the orchestrator, you can indeed click on them and get the player screen where you also can set the mics.


Thanks, you two. And is there a discernable way to get MIDI data from the Orchestrator into your DAW?

I'm effectively looking for the Orchestrator equivalent to this in Modern Scoring Strings:




The use case would be, "I've found a repetition pattern I like, and want the actual MIDI data in its own track in Cubase so I can replicate with other libraries."


----------



## Wabashprof

> Thanks, you two. And is there a discernable way to get MIDI data from the Orchestrator into your DAW?


The fact that support has responded to this question by saying it will differ by DAW suggests it must be captured by each track as it's played, ala other VSTs with no dedicated midi export function. Hope I'm wrong about this. 

Sonuscore built this for EastWest, and they added a MIDI export function in TOC2, as others have noted. This is THE most useful feature I'm hoping for in Orchestrator as it helps me quickly build ostinatos I can edit and reassign to other instruments in my DAW.


----------



## AndyP

I am now trying a trick. I have the zip files downloaded, copy them promptly to an extra folder and when the installer starts unpacking I have duplicated them. Then I unpack them manually hoping to get the right content and structure to make a relocate and reload incidentally.
I hope this works before the installer has deleted the last ZIP file.


----------



## EgM

Keyswitch patches seem nice but there's some audio interruption (release tails cut) when you switch patches, anyone else? On Mac/Mojave


----------



## cqd

Ok.. just checked..In pro tools anyway you can route the midi out of the orchestrator into any other midi track..


----------



## Robert_G

Braveheart said:


> Don’t look at Orchestral Tools new product thread, or your GAS risk starting again...


Too late. Its obvious my GAS is fully functional.


----------



## KitNexu

Does anyone else have this issue, or is it just me?


----------



## Nuno

Geomir said:


> 2) Also when I run my installed Opus Player, I get a message to activate it, but when I click next, and I put my iLok credentials correctly, I get a message that "I don't have any product licenses pending for activation", and so my only choice is to cancel. And so the Opus player will not start. Is this normal? Wasn't the Opus Player supposed to be free for all the non-EWHO libraries? Do I need to purchase a license just for the Player?
> 
> Anyone else here that did NOT purchase Opus but having the same issues after upgrading their EW Installation Center?
> 
> P.S. Of course I already opened a support ticket to EW already, but I don't know how much I will have to wait, since I can only guess that this is going to be a very difficult evening for their support dept...


Try uninstall Opus and install it again. It worked for me.
For some people this didn t solve the problem though. Worth the try even so...


----------



## cqd

Man..the orchestrator rocks..


----------



## Bryan

KitNexu said:


> Does anyone else have this issue, or is it just me?


Most are having that issue. It is a problem with Ilok. I do see someone on Facebook has it up and working though. Hopefully that means they are getting things sorted out.


----------



## Geomir

Nuno said:


> Try uninstall Opus and install it again. It worked for me.
> For some people this didn t solve the problem though. Worth the try even so...


Hey thank you for your will to help! I would do what you said but now I know it's pointless. Please note that I did NOT purchase Opus Edition, and just now I already got my reply from EW:

_"Without the HW Orchestra Opus edition purchase, either as a full library purchase or within the ComposerCloud subscriptions, you are not able to use the Opus engine. 

The HW Orchestra content especially will not load without you having the Opus edition. You can continue using it in Play though in your current setup with the licenses you currently have. 

At some point we may offer the Opus software as an available upgrade purchase, and your libraries other than the HW Orchestra would load in it."_

It seems that all this hype that the Opus Player will be available (as a free update) for all the non-EWHO libraries is not true.

I am relatively happy with Play 6, my original EWHO (Gold) and my other older EW libraries and I am not begging for freebies. Of course I will not be upgrading anytime soon because I find it a little expensive for what it is.

But seriously, making people spend their time to download, install and update Opus Player (and another Opus Support software), then showing them a permanent message that it is correctly installed and up to date, even creating the desktop icon for them, and allow them to run it only to stick back to their faces that they are not licensed to use it, this is far beyond my understanding!


----------



## Fa

So far so good. 

Haven't used it in depth at all but:
- download and installation were smooth and fast. Amazon server saturated my available band-width, no complaint. All immediately working on my Mac running Big Sur.

- the OPUS player is nice looking and works fine with HO and seems to be efficient, beside being rich of features and informative (lot of info text, well designed menu and GUI).

- the sound of HOOPUS is good, close to HO or better, presets are better and everything sounds a bit more responsive and smooth than Play. Moods mixes are also nice sounding, if you are under pressure and just need a quick clichè sound, they are superb.

Unfortunately I was looking for a personal hope about Opus, improving the script and compatibility of EW Choirs. Unfortunately it was not the case, they work fine but with exactly the same issues of Play version, including incompatibility with Dorico Pro playback. I understand it's a niche demand, but it's neglected for years now, and the technical service didn't help :(
(they even erased from Facebook my post asking for help or suggestions...)


----------



## Trax

Geomir said:


> It seems that all this hype that the Opus Player will be available (as a free update) for all the non-EWHO libraries is not true.



That wasn't ever the case, I don't believe, at least at this stage. Where was this hype train?


----------



## cqd

Fa said:


> Unfortunately I was looking for a personal hope about Opus, improving the script and compatibility of EW Choirs. Unfortunately it was not the case, they work fine but with exactly the same issues of Play version,


The choirs will surely get a proper opus update next I reckon..


----------



## Geomir

Trax said:


> That wasn't ever the case, I don't believe, at least at this stage. Where was this hype train?


Somewhere here, buried deep in some of the 262 (and counting) pages, and it came from people that got this respond from EW representatives. But I don't have the courage to actually search for any relevant post.


----------



## Fa

Trax said:


> That wasn't ever the case, I don't believe, at least at this stage. Where was this hype train?


Now FAQ are clear on this topic. It's now and free for new buy, it's not retroactively for existing customers. It will be available later as payed update.


----------



## cqd

If you buy them now you'd get it..
Play is probably still more stable currently..


----------



## Lewis Emblack

So...

The only installation issue I had was concerning the solo instruments, which I initially had on another drive - after moving and relocating them they still weren't showing, but it was resolved by doing a "locate and reinstall"

Other than that the only issue I have found is that a few of the Orchestrator patches don't load.

I did have a crash, but that was because I decided to set "voice render threads" to maximum from the default minimum, which caused my cpu to have a nervous breakdown.

On the topic of the Ochestrator - I have a short piano piece for a song I wrote 20-odd years ago and something that I always come back to to try and build on, only to fall into the same rut. I always use it for testing stuff as is about the only thing I can play on piano 🤣 The 3rd preset patch I tried gave me an idea of where to go with it. It is never going to be an orchestral thing, but nevertheless it has already helped me.

I am very surprised so many are having issues, especially on PC, as I have a pretty old system (4-core 4thGen i7, 32GB ram, 1TB SSD) Just goes to show how difficult it must be for developers as you would expect me to be the one having problems, if anyone, seeing how beefy some of your systems are. MacOS issues are a given I think, as I have seen it too many times with software - it is odd though as you would think there would be more issues the more modular something is. I hope everyone struggling manage to get it sorted soon.


----------



## Geomir

cqd said:


> If you buy them now you'd get it..
> Play is probably still more stable currently..


LOL seriously? Well, I suppose all those... less features make it more stable.


----------



## Geomir

Fa said:


> Now FAQ are clear on this topic. It's now and free for new buy, it's not retroactively for existing customers. It will be available later as payed update.


Thanks! I am checking this right now.


----------



## Nimrod7

Can anyone with Logic try something please?

1. Create a instrument with Opus,
2. assign Midi Channel 1 in the instrument (from omni)
3. Add Celli Long KS in Opus (it will also get channel 1)
4. Hit Ctrl Return in Logic to clone the instrument with Midi Channel 2 automatically.

Do you get a spinning ball and some time before logic responds (maybe 4-8 seconds?), while on Kontakt or other engines is instant?


----------



## AndyP

Now I have done the following.
The wrong path is in the json file where the paths for installing the Installation Center are stored. I have now edited this file and entered my hard drive with the EW folder.













The Installation Center now shows the correct path for the harp. Now I am curious if it works.






Edit: Interestingly, the path is now correct for the cello even though I changed the harp.


----------



## Frederick

Evans said:


> Thanks, you two. And is there a discernable way to get MIDI data from the Orchestrator into your DAW?
> 
> I'm effectively looking for the Orchestrator equivalent to this in Modern Scoring Strings:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The use case would be, "I've found a repetition pattern I like, and want the actual MIDI data in its own track in Cubase so I can replicate with other libraries."



I don't know how to export MIDI like that with OPUS. However, it seems to me that the orchestrator has 16 output chanels, one for each instrument in the orchestrator and if there are 16 MIDI tracks in Cubase you can send the output of each channel to a different MIDI track. I suppose it's identical to how it would work with a Kontakt rack. It's all up to how your daw works.

There's also supposed to be a MIDI recorder under the midi tools tab when you are in the play view. Unfortunately I've discovered a glitch in my installation: There's no midi tools available. Still need to check the manual about this first, before I can call this a bug.

EDIT: My bad. You just need to click the triple points to the right first to add midi tools here. The pocketrecorder can record the midi notes and optional also the CC data. Apparently it will be saved to file and you can play it back here as well.

EDIT 2: Don't press the save button of the pocketrecorder without having recorded anything first, because after that Cubase will won't respond to anything and you'll have to use the task manager to unload Cubase from memory. They should add a check for a null value or something.


----------



## shropshirelad

KitNexu said:


> Does anyone else have this issue, or is it just me?


Me too.


----------



## cqd

Frederick said:


> There's also supposed to be a MIDI recorder under the midi tools tab when you are in the play view. Unfortunately I've discovered a glitch in my installation: There's no midi tools available. Still need to check the manual about this first, before I can call this a bug.


You have to add them via the three dots at the top corner..

I thought the same earlier..


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Geomir said:


> Hey thank you for your will to help! I would do what you said but now I know it's pointless. Please note that I did NOT purchase Opus Edition, and just now I already got my reply from EW:
> 
> _"Without the HW Orchestra Opus edition purchase, either as a full library purchase or within the ComposerCloud subscriptions, you are not able to use the Opus engine.
> 
> The HW Orchestra content especially will not load without you having the Opus edition. You can continue using it in Play though in your current setup with the licenses you currently have.
> 
> At some point we may offer the Opus software as an available upgrade purchase, and your libraries other than the HW Orchestra would load in it."_
> 
> It seems that all this hype that the Opus Player will be available (as a free update) for all the non-EWHO libraries is not true.
> 
> I am relatively happy with Play 6, my original EWHO (Gold) and my other older EW libraries and I am not begging for freebies. Of course I will not be upgrading anytime soon because I find it a little expensive for what it is.
> 
> But seriously, making people spend their time to download, install and update Opus Player (and another Opus Support software), then showing them a permanent message that it is correctly installed and up to date, even creating the desktop icon for them, and allow them to run it only to stick back to their faces that they are not licensed to use it, this is far beyond my understanding!


IKMultimedia do the same thing with TRacks5, apart from they get you to download the full 3-4GB of plugins too 😬


----------



## itsrainingben

shropshirelad said:


> Me too.


It's a known problem caused by ilok. They're working on a fix. If it helps I have it too!


----------



## dzilizzi

Geomir said:


> Hey thank you for your will to help! I would do what you said but now I know it's pointless. Please note that I did NOT purchase Opus Edition, and just now I already got my reply from EW:
> 
> _"Without the HW Orchestra Opus edition purchase, either as a full library purchase or within the ComposerCloud subscriptions, you are not able to use the Opus engine.
> 
> The HW Orchestra content especially will not load without you having the Opus edition. You can continue using it in Play though in your current setup with the licenses you currently have.
> 
> At some point we may offer the Opus software as an available upgrade purchase, and your libraries other than the HW Orchestra would load in it."_
> 
> It seems that all this hype that the Opus Player will be available (as a free update) for all the non-EWHO libraries is not true.
> 
> I am relatively happy with Play 6, my original EWHO (Gold) and my other older EW libraries and I am not begging for freebies. Of course I will not be upgrading anytime soon because I find it a little expensive for what it is.
> 
> But seriously, making people spend their time to download, install and update Opus Player (and another Opus Support software), then showing them a permanent message that it is correctly installed and up to date, even creating the desktop icon for them, and allow them to run it only to stick back to their faces that they are not licensed to use it, this is far beyond my understanding!


i thought they said the Opus player was not yet ready for the other libraries. It was a "we will be updating other libraries to be compatible with Opus player and if you purchase any new Opus player library, your other libraries, other than HO, will work with it. But HO is the only current library with Opus, so far.


----------



## dcoscina

cqd said:


> Man..the orchestrator rocks..


I only subscribed to CC so I have Gold OPUS installed. I don't see the Orchestrator... sorry if I missed this somewhere but is it only available to Diamond/CCX subscribers?


----------



## macavalon

I've just downloaded Hollywood Opus.. WOW ! ... all is forgiven EastWest... play is definitely consigned to the trash can now


----------



## Lewis Emblack

dcoscina said:


> I only subscribed to CC so I have Gold OPUS installed. I don't see the Orchestrator... sorry if I missed this somewhere but is it only available to Diamond/CCX subscribers?


It should be with your other libraries in the browser screen


----------



## cqd

dcoscina said:


> I only subscribed to CC so I have Gold OPUS installed. I don't see the Orchestrator... sorry if I missed this somewhere but is it only available to Diamond/CCX subscribers?


It's in the first menu.. you have to install it separately too..

@dizi..My other libraries are opening as they did in play anyway.. probably not optimized or reprogrammed or whatever though..


----------



## gamma-ut

Nimrod7 said:


> Can anyone with Logic try something please?
> 
> 1. Create a instrument with Opus,
> 2. assign Midi Channel 1 in the instrument (from omni)
> 3. Add Celli Long KS in Opus (it will also get channel 1)
> 4. Hit Ctrl Return in Logic to clone the instrument with Midi Channel 2 automatically.
> 
> Do you get a spinning ball and some time before logic responds (maybe 4-8 seconds?), while on Kontakt or other engines is instant?


I couldn't find Celli Long KS but Celli KS Master (2GB worth of patch) did lead to a beachball. OTOH, the first instance took several seconds to load. The bigger problem for me is that the window for the second instance is blank.


----------



## larry777

BRVLN said:


> It just doesn't respond the same way.
> The Marc Legato patches were so playable! Can't get the same attack (not too harsh, not too soft, just right!)


Sorry I don't see the marc legato in the opus menu, where is it?


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Can anyone check something in Orchestrator for me please?
I noticed there are a number of patches that do no load at all or only load on occasion (eg. Hollywood Adventure 07 (7-8) doesn't load at all) Just want to know if it is this something to do with my download or settings, or something that needs a fix.


----------



## dcoscina

cqd said:


> It's in the first menu.. you have to install it separately too..
> 
> @dizi..My other libraries are opening as they did in play anyway.. probably not optimized or reprogrammed or whatever though..


sorry I should have been more specific- I actually installed from the EW downloader but I don't see it when I open OPUS under the PERFORM tab like the video shows... odd


----------



## MA-Simon

kingy10kingy said:


> Not saying Opus isn't good value because I haven't tried it myself but this made my laugh big time LOL



OMG. This hits so much. Love it!


----------



## Lazer42

Lewis Emblack said:


> So...
> 
> The only installation issue I had was concerning the solo instruments, which I initially had on another drive - after moving and relocating them they still weren't showing, but it was resolved by doing a "locate and reinstall"
> 
> Other than that the only issue I have found is that a few of the Orchestrator patches don't load.
> 
> I did have a crash, but that was because I decided to set "voice render threads" to maximum from the default minimum, which caused my cpu to have a nervous breakdown.
> 
> On the topic of the Ochestrator - I have a short piano piece for a song I wrote 20-odd years ago and something that I always come back to to try and build on, only to fall into the same rut. I always use it for testing stuff as is about the only thing I can play on piano 🤣 The 3rd preset patch I tried gave me an idea of where to go with it. It is never going to be an orchestral thing, but nevertheless it has already helped me.
> 
> I am very surprised so many are having issues, especially on PC, as I have a pretty old system (4-core 4thGen i7, 32GB ram, 1TB SSD) Just goes to show how difficult it must be for developers as you would expect me to be the one having problems, if anyone, seeing how beefy some of your systems are. MacOS issues are a given I think, as I have seen it too many times with software - it is odd though as you would think there would be more issues the more modular something is. I hope everyone struggling manage to get it sorted soon.


I have a relatively newer and higher end, but still a couple of years old, computer and the performance has been fine for me so far.


----------



## Lazer42

dzilizzi said:


> i thought they said the Opus player was not yet ready for the other libraries. It was a "we will be updating other libraries to be compatible with Opus player and if you purchase any new Opus player library, your other libraries, other than HO, will work with it. But HO is the only current library with Opus, so far.


I'm not quite sure what they meant by this and there may be limitations I have not yet found, but so far I have been able to load older libraries in Opus and take advantage of its new features with them (e.g., making keyswitches).


----------



## gamma-ut

dzilizzi said:


> i thought they said the Opus player was not yet ready for the other libraries. It was a "we will be updating other libraries to be compatible with Opus player and if you purchase any new Opus player library, your other libraries, other than HO, will work with it. But HO is the only current library with Opus, so far.


I've tried Symphony and Ra in Opus to try out custom keyswitches while I was waiting for the HOOPUS updates to download and it works. I think the delay to providing Opus to new buyers of older libraries had more to do with the anticipated load on tech support while HOOPUS was rolling out.


----------



## dzilizzi

cqd said:


> It's in the first menu.. you have to install it separately too..
> 
> @dizi..My other libraries are opening as they did in play anyway.. probably not optimized or reprogrammed or whatever though..


I'm just going by what someone posted here that I remember reading. Similar to Play 6 in that new libraries get the player but it would work with the older libraries. But I did think there was supposed to be some upgrades to the older libraries? I could be mis-remembering things. Or is could be a bad statement form support when they had minimal information.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Lazer42 said:


> I have a relatively newer and higher end, but still a couple of years old, computer and the performance has been fine for me so far.


I think I have counted half a dozen people, yourself included, without issues. Seems so random...though I suppose that is always the case.


----------



## cqd

dzilizzi said:


> I'm just going by what someone posted here that I remember reading. Similar to Play 6 in that new libraries get the player but it would work with the older libraries. But I did think there was supposed to be some upgrades to the older libraries? I could be mis-remembering things. Or is could be a bad statement form support when they had minimal information.


I think I got the impression they'd be rolled out over time..


----------



## Lazer42

cqd said:


> I think I got the impression they'd be rolled out over time..


Maybe what they meant is more along the lines of support for moods and stuff like that.


----------



## dzilizzi

Lewis Emblack said:


> I think I have counted half a dozen people, yourself included, without issues. Seems so random...though I suppose that is always the case.


I think a lot depends on the computers on which they tested this. There are so many configurations out there, it is not surprising there are issues. I remember BBCSO's rollout. Most were able to get the issues fixed fairly quickly. At least one person got a refund because Spitfire couldn't get it to work on that customer's system. Should be interesting to see how fast support can get things fixed for those having issues.


----------



## Nimrod7

gamma-ut said:


> I couldn't find Celli Long KS but Celli KS Master (2GB worth of patch) did lead to a beachball. OTOH, the first instance took several seconds to load. The bigger problem for me is that the window for the second instance is blank.


Thanks for testing, yep that's it.
The beachball is interesting, since the Ctrl Return creates a new channel with a reference back to the original instrument. I believe there is something wrong with Opus, Kontakt for the same size patches doesn't expose that behavior.

Eventually building the template with multiple channels, the time escalates up to 30-40 second beach balls.


----------



## dcoscina

shropshirelad said:


> Me too.


Me three


----------



## ThomasS

Lewis Emblack said:


> Can anyone check something in Orchestrator for me please?
> I noticed there are a number of patches that do no load at all or only load on occasion (eg. Hollywood Adventure 07 (7-8) doesn't load at all) Just want to know if it is this something to do with my download or settings, or something that needs a fix.


I just checked for you - Adventure 07 (7-8) loads for me in approximately 2 seconds. I have played through a ton of presets so far, and everything has loaded quickly, between 2 to 4 seconds. 

Of course, I have "never pre-load" checked in preferences. The default was unchecked, which is silly, because then it takes much longer to load, and you never need every sample in ram, so I don't know why they did this. But it takes just one click to "never preload" (which is just their open in purge mode). Perhaps that will fix your issue, but if you alredy have that checked then there is something else wrong.

Also, if you are using Windows you get a much faster load of everything if you add the folder(s) that have your samples to the exclusion settings in Windows Security.


----------



## dcoscina

Ah I found orchestrator but I get the same license issue, even after I re-installed OPUS. Oh well.


----------



## William Hoshal

William Hoshal said:


> Initial experiences with Opus and Orchestrator....libraries and software downloaded and installed just fine. Plugin initialized and loaded. All instruments and patches seem to be available, and I've not experienced any of the noise issues that have been mentioned (I've only gone through about 60% of the patches). Sonic quality seems comparable to HO Diamond but with fewer articulation choices in some instances. Thus endeth the good news.
> I'm running this on a Windows server rig via VEPro7 (controlled by Logic from an iMac Pro). The Opus machine has 128GB RAM and 12 core i9. CPU hit is substantial on many of the patches but livable. However, Orchestrator is an unholy mess. Patches, ensembles, scores, etc load....but that's about it. Orchestrator does not recognize BPM - locked at 1bpm and cannot be changed. Playing a note or chord results only in a very loud single note from all loaded instruments (with a lot of latency) and then stuck notes from any sustained patches. Sequencers for the instruments don't run, and the only way to kill the stuck notes is to turn off the audio engine at the VEPro mainframe level. So far, I've not been able to determine any problems on the DAW or VEPro side of things -- every other plugin, library and insert works as always -- so I'm left to believe the problem lies solely with Orchestrator.
> Mind you, this is only my experience and using it within VEPro on a remote machine. I don't know if it performs correctly on a local machine, but I have no intention of moving 2 terabytes of East West libraries and de-authorizing/re-authorizing on my Mac to determine if it does. Release notes and publicity materials assured us that it would work in VEPro7.
> Currently waiting on response from Customer Support.


**Update - for those interested in using HOOPUS in VEPro7 on remote machines. It seems that Opus and Orchestrator do not get along particularly well with VEPro7's AU3 plugin coming out of Logic...Once I switched to the standard AU instance in Logic, the issues cleared up. Halfway through presets and patches and all seems smooth now.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

ThomasS said:


> I just checked for you - Adventure 07 (7-8) loads for me in approximately 2 seconds. I have played through a ton of presets so far, and everything has loaded quickly, between 2 to 4 seconds.
> 
> Of course, I have "never pre-load" checked in preferences. The default was unchecked, which is silly, because then it takes much longer to load, and you never need every sample in ram, so I don't know why they did this. But it takes just one click to "never preload" (which is just their open in purge mode). Perhaps that will fix your issue, but if you alredy have that checked then there is something else wrong.
> 
> Also, if you are using Windows you get a much faster load of everything if you add the folder(s) that have your samples to the exclusion settings in Windows Security.


Huh...that worked (I had done it before but forgot I'd changed it back to check cpu loads) Odd thing is I turned it off again and no issues now either way...very strange. Ah well, all sorted now!

Thanks very much for checking that for me 😁


----------



## jneebz

I can’t tell if this is a Vi-C thread on Opus or a Beta tester team discussion...


----------



## GhostRIde Media

sIR dORT said:


> (Cut)
> 
> - A purge function
> 
> I want/need some of those (i.e. purge), but I can do without a lot.... (cut)


Sorry, but what is this purge function everyone is so excited about? I feel like I’m missing out on the whole party!?


----------



## Chaosmod

No installation issues here, and no playback issues. All Orchestrator patches work well. 
I'm running in Cubase Pro 11 on a desktop PC with 32GB RAM and a 6-core i5 8400. 

The odd thing is that CPU load seems to have a display issue, as my system performance meter is showing significantly less than what Opus shows for CPU load. A full third less, in some cases. 

Satisfied CC+ customer here, although I've only managed ~40 seconds of music today because I'm forum distracted.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

William Hoshal said:


> **Update - for those interested in using HOOPUS in VEPro7 on remote machines. It seems that Opus and Orchestrator do not get along particularly well with VEPro7's AU3 plugin coming out of Logic...Once I switched to the standard AU instance in Logic, the issues cleared up. Halfway through presets and patches and all seems smooth now.


The AU3 version of VEPro7 doesn't work with any type of tempo-based instruments/plugins, and I think Orchestrator falls into that category. I'm not sure if this is an Apple or VSL issue....but AU3 is broken until this gets sorted.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Chaosmod said:


> Satisfied CC+ customer here, although I've only managed ~40 seconds of music today because I'm forum distracted.


Yup, same here 🤣


----------



## dzilizzi

Chaosmod said:


> No installation issues here, and no playback issues. All Orchestrator patches work well.
> I'm running in Cubase Pro 11 on a desktop PC with 32GB RAM and a 6-core i5 8400.
> 
> The odd thing is that CPU load seems to have a display issue, as my system performance meter is showing significantly less than what Opus shows for CPU load. A full third less, in some cases.
> 
> Satisfied CC+ customer here, although I've only managed ~40 seconds of music today because I'm forum distracted.


But you wrote a blockbuster, right?


----------



## SlHarder

Watch out for the"white noise of death" as you wander thru HO Strings Full Ensemble patches. "Full STR Sus + Vc Leg Lite" is one to tip toe thru. You will know when it gets you.


----------



## William Hoshal

Jeremy Spencer said:


> The AU3 version of VEPro7 doesn't work with any type of tempo-based instruments/plugins, and I think Orchestrator falls into that category. I'm not sure if this is an Apple or VSL issue....but AU3 is broken until this gets sorted.


Thanks, Jeremy. Good to know. This is the first glitch I've encountered...I was still on VEPro6 until last week. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## dsharpie

CC Plus subscriber here. Download and installation of OPUS went well last night, and I've been able to work with it a bit in Cubase 10.5. However the install broke my Play 6 (Not a valid VST message in Cubase, and standalone Play 6 would not load up at all). Loading existing Cubase projects that use Play 6 failed with missing VST messages.

I messaged support, and after a couple of hours I got a detailed list of instructions to solve the problem, which did work. Basically, I had to remove the EastWest folder from the Program Data folder and remove PLAY and OPUS vst's from the VST and VST3 folders, then Reinstall OPUS software (and the support files) and PLAY software (in that order) and reboot the computer. This resulted in version 1.0.0a of OPUS being installed and 6.1.9 of Play reinstalled. I think OPUS 1.0.0a was a fix they put in late last night or early this morning, after I had done my initial install, so maybe this issue is fixed now.

All of my installed libraries still did not show as installed in the East West Installation software (obviously because deleting the Program Data-EastWest folder deletes data about the installed libraries). But no problem, just had to go to Library Directories screen, delete and add back my two folders, and voila, it refreshed correctly showing all of my installed libraries.

Now both OPUS and PLAY work fine in standalone mode as well as VST's.

NOTE: I did have to open Cubase 10.5, go to VST Manager, and refresh to remove the "bad Play" message before I could load up my existing Play-based projects, but everything worked fine after that.

EDITED TO ADD: In case any other early-installers have this problem, take note that if you have SPACES II preset data in the Program Data - EastWest folder structure, you need to copy it to another place before deleting the folder, so it can be added back in after reinstalling the software. Tech Support said that if there was a problem with SPACES presets, it could be reinstalled to fix the problem.


----------



## Jay Panikkar

I subbed CC+, and have been playing with Opus for a few hours now.

My impression with this release is that it's "typical EastWest": two steps forward, one step back; good ideas and great samples, somewhat sloppy implementation.

Here's a summary of my thoughts so far.

Starting with the new content:
* The new woodwind ensembles are the best of them, they definitely add new colours to the existing collection.
* The new 2 Trumpets cut through better than the old set. The new 2 Trombones are rather mellow but generally complement the existing 2 Tenor + 1 Bass Trombone patch. I did run into some sample / programming issues with some of the patches.
* The new violins don't add much to the collection IMO. Here too I ran into some sample / programming issues with some of the patches.
* Overall, there's sufficient articulations and dynamics across all of the new instruments, and they fit well with the existing collection. But they should fix the dodgy patches ASAP.

Then the "re-imagined" stuff:
* Sample fidelity between the PLAY and Opus versions is identical, but some minor oddities with loop points, round-robins and mic positions in the PLAY collection seems to have been fixed in the new version. However, several long-standing sample / programming issues still persist. For example, some patches still incorrectly load Vintage mic samples along with Surround samples. In the PLAY version 'close' mic samples for some of the Brass and Winds were truncated at the start of the envelope. This is only partially fixed with this update; some 2+1 Trombones, Trombone Solo and Low Brass patches still have this problem. Also, there's been no adjustments to tuning and volume levels despite plenty of opportunity across the collection.
* The scripting for HOW—especially the legatos—now feel similar to the strings and brass in how they play and respond. So far, this feels like a good update to the woodwinds.
* The solo instruments have also been updated. The noise / artifacts in some of the old Harp patches are mostly gone. The Violin and Cello are nothing special, but they are actually useable now.
* Hollywood Orchestra patches—HOS in particular—have finally been consolidated in line with the rest of the collection. But the 'loose' staccati patches have been removed for some reason. Opus consists only of the 'tight' patches from the old collection. I think there may be some other patches missing too.
* Some new and innovative issues have been introduced with this upgrade. The shorts and the sustains in some of the 'accent' patches are misaligned. Repetition patches produce huge CPU spikes and artifacts, and screw up audio playback. The Tuba 'Legato Slur MAX' patch and two other patches which I forgot are missing legato transitions.
* The default 'Classic Mood' setting loads 'main' & 'surround' mic samples, as opposed to the PLAY version which only loads the 'main' samples by default. The indicator for surround mic doesn't always light up as intended, so the patches are loading twice the number of samples by default and users won't realise this is happening.
* The 'Mood' setting forces multiple mic positions to load every time you switch in and out of the Instrument Rack or the 'Player' tab, which overrides / resets user settings every time.
* Overall, no big surprises here. Hopefully, they'll go about fixing the broken stuff ASAP.

On to the new Opus software:
* The GUI is scalable and snappy, and even at 4k feels a lot smoother to navigate as compared to PLAY. However, there are various display issues related to performance indicators, scroll bars, mic position indicators, etc.
* Lots of information text and tooltips, solid thumbs up for that.
* Functionality is split across tabs and racks making Opus relatively easier to navigate than PLAY... but it's not organised in an intuitive way and instead exposes a lot of seemingly useless controls. I ran into several other issues, such as audio playback glitches when loading patches into the rack or changing controls in the rack, replaced patches "inheriting" settings from the previous patch in the slot instead of resetting, etc.
* Keyswitches can be configured under the "Articulations" tab, if you load the KS master patches for the instrument. However, it may not be obvious that you need to right-click to change the settings. Then there's a big problem with duplicate loading where the same articulation samples are loaded again and again despite already being loaded by an existing patch.
* MIDI CC can be configured under the "Automation" tab, and so far, works as intended. However, the first item in the MIDI CC list says "Modulation wheel" instead of what it's actually supposed to control—for example "Vibrato"—which will confuse most users, especially when re-mapping to a different controller other than the modulation wheel.
* There are some new settings in the Preferences that sound useful but I'm not convinced that they even work. I had to enable and set to maximum all the multi-thread settings to get rid of audio dropouts. Fortunately, in terms of disk loading performance, Opus nearly maxes out my NVME drives with near instantaneous loading for some of the largest patches which previously took a while to load in PLAY.
* Curiously, I didn't have any issues with installation and licensing so I guess I got lucky on that front.

Overall, I think the current upgrade price is centred around the Orchestrator tool. I'll be holding off until a 'lite' upgrade is offered from HO Diamond to the Opus edition.


----------



## Lazer42

Chaosmod said:


> No installation issues here, and no playback issues. All Orchestrator patches work well.
> I'm running in Cubase Pro 11 on a desktop PC with 32GB RAM and a 6-core i5 8400.
> 
> The odd thing is that CPU load seems to have a display issue, as my system performance meter is showing significantly less than what Opus shows for CPU load. A full third less, in some cases.
> 
> Satisfied CC+ customer here, although I've only managed ~40 seconds of music today because I'm forum distracted.


I have had similar results in terms of the CPU meter. Play has a setting about the maximum CPU load. Opus does not appear to have such a setting (that I can find), but I wonder if this has something to do with what that CPU load readout means in Opus, as if it is actually a percentage of some maximum or some other standard than your overall system CPU load.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Jay Panikkar said:


> The default 'Classic Mood' setting loads 'main' & 'surround' mic samples, as opposed to the PLAY version which only loads the 'main' samples by default. The indicator for surround mic doesn't always light up as intended, so the patches are loading twice the number of samples by default and users won't realise this is happening.
> * The 'Mood' setting forces multiple mic positions to load every time you switch in and out of the Instrument Rack or the 'Player' tab, which overrides / resets user settings every time.


What about RAM usage compared to PLAY? Are there optimisations?


----------



## José Herring

Jay Panikkar said:


> I subbed CC+, and have been playing with Opus for a few hours now.
> 
> My impression with this release is that it's "typical EastWest": two steps forward, one step back; good ideas and great samples, somewhat sloppy implementation.
> 
> Here's a summary of my thoughts so far.
> 
> Starting with the new content:
> * The new woodwind ensembles are the best of them, they definitely add new colours to the existing collection.
> * The new 2 Trumpets cut through better than the old set. The new 2 Trombones are rather mellow but generally complement the existing 2 Tenor + 1 Bass Trombone patch. I did run into some sample / programming issues with some of the patches.
> * The new violins don't add much to the collection IMO. Here too I ran into some sample / programming issues with some of the patches.
> * Overall, there's sufficient articulations and dynamics across all of the new instruments, and they fit well with the existing collection. But they should fix the dodgy patches ASAP.
> 
> Then the "re-imagined" stuff:
> * Sample fidelity between the PLAY and Opus versions is identical, but some minor oddities with loop points, round-robins and mic positions in the PLAY collection seems to have been fixed in the new version. However, several long-standing sample / programming issues still persist. For example, some patches still incorrectly load Vintage mic samples along with Surround samples. In the PLAY version 'close' mic samples for some of the Brass and Winds were truncated at the start of the envelope. This is only partially fixed with this update; some 2+1 Trombones, Trombone Solo and Low Brass patches still have this problem. Also, there's been no adjustments to tuning and volume levels despite plenty of opportunity across the collection.
> * The scripting for HOW—especially the legatos—now feel similar to the strings and brass in how they play and respond. So far, this feels like a good update to the woodwinds.
> * The solo instruments have also been updated. The noise / artifacts in some of the old Harp patches are mostly gone. The Violin and Cello are nothing special, but they are actually useable now.
> * Hollywood Orchestra patches—HOS in particular—have finally been consolidated in line with the rest of the collection. But the 'loose' staccati patches have been removed for some reason. Opus consists only of the 'tight' patches from the old collection. I think there may be some other patches missing too.
> * Some new and innovative issues have been introduced with this upgrade. The shorts and the sustains in some of the 'accent' patches are misaligned. Repetition patches produce huge CPU spikes and artifacts, and screw up audio playback. The Tuba 'Legato Slur MAX' patch and two other patches which I forgot are missing legato transitions.
> * The default 'Classic Mood' setting loads 'main' & 'surround' mic samples, as opposed to the PLAY version which only loads the 'main' samples by default. The indicator for surround mic doesn't always light up as intended, so the patches are loading twice the number of samples by default and users won't realise this is happening.
> * The 'Mood' setting forces multiple mic positions to load every time you switch in and out of the Instrument Rack or the 'Player' tab, which overrides / resets user settings every time.
> * Overall, no big surprises here. Hopefully, they'll go about fixing the broken stuff ASAP.
> 
> On to the new Opus software:
> * The GUI is scalable and snappy, and even at 4k feels a lot smoother to navigate as compared to PLAY. However, there are various display issues related to performance indicators, scroll bars, mic position indicators, etc.
> * Lots of information text and tooltips, solid thumbs up for that.
> * Functionality is split across tabs and racks making Opus relatively easier to navigate than PLAY... but it's not organised in an intuitive way and instead exposes a lot of seemingly useless controls. I ran into several other issues, such as audio playback glitches when loading patches into the rack or changing controls in the rack, replaced patches "inheriting" settings from the previous patch in the slot instead of resetting, etc.
> * Keyswitches can be configured under the "Articulations" tab, if you load the KS master patches for the instrument. However, it may not be obvious that you need to right-click to change the settings. Then there's a big problem with duplicate loading where the same articulation samples are loaded again and again despite already being loaded by an existing patch.
> * MIDI CC can be configured under the "Automation" tab, and so far, works as intended. However, the first item in the MIDI CC list says "Modulation wheel" instead of what it's actually supposed to control—for example "Vibrato"—which will confuse most users, especially when re-mapping to a different controller other than the modulation wheel.
> * There are some new settings in the Preferences that sound useful but I'm not convinced that they even work. I had to enable and set to maximum all the multi-thread settings to get rid of audio dropouts. Fortunately, in terms of disk loading performance, Opus nearly maxes out my NVME drives with near instantaneous loading for some of the largest patches which previously took a while to load in PLAY.
> * Curiously, I didn't have any issues with installation and licensing so I guess I got lucky on that front.
> 
> Overall, I think the current upgrade price is centred around the Orchestrator tool. I'll be holding off until a 'lite' upgrade is offered from HO Diamond to the Opus edition.


Very useful. Thank you for your detailed post.


----------



## MarcusD

No issues with installation, Opus has run fairly well so far apart from one crash. Managed to get it to conk-out when trying to change "the mood" after loading a preset using the Orchestrator. Only been playing around for about 10 minuets... yet to reach any sort of verdict on it.

So far I like:

+ Inter-plugin communication - the purge options apply to any instances loaded in a project. However it would be nice to see a "load all" function in the purge options.

/ BUG - When updating purge pool, OPUS completely resets all the colour tags you've applied to any instruments loaded in the rack.

+ Orchestrator - really like the idea, sounds great, but no option to edit own midi patterns? 

- You can rescale the outer GUI but the actual player Opus graphic does not scale with it? 

TBC


----------



## cqd

MarcusD said:


> + Orchestrator - really like the idea, sounds great, but no option to edit own midi patterns?


There is, but it isn't the most intuitive..hit the pencil button to get into it..then edit the pattern..then hit the power button on the corner, and select middle in the note region..


----------



## AndyP

Has everyone actually got their solo instruments installed by now?
I am only missing the harp, the cello is now installed where it belongs.

I still don't understand what the problem with the Installation Center is. Why does it work for most users and for a few not to install the solo instruments easily?

I still can't get the install path of the harp changed. And until the EW support answers (if then) it will probably take quite a while. They certainly have a lot to do right now.

At least I'm glad that the rest works, and I have no problems with the orchestrator. I find it quite useful for ostinatos and stacks, although I would have liked to have access to the divisi strings. Once I figure out how the midi export works, it's not a big problem anymore. 

Basically the orchstrator is a beast in terms of computer resources even on computers with more power. I guess that computers with less than 32/64 gb ram and less than 6/8 cores can only be used limitedly.

Even the solo violin and cello I don't think is as bad as it is made out to be. I don't know the PLAY version, the OPUS version is usable and I know worse.

Tomorrow I will try OPUS in the DAW and how it behaves in VEP with Cubase. And make a new attempt with the Harp installation. I like to have everything complete so that the update can push into the backup.

I expected all kinds of problems (maybe they will come with further use), but not that the installation of the additional solo instruments will cause such problems for me.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

MarcusD said:


> - You can rescale the outer GUI but the actual player Opus graphic does not scale with it?


Options in Preferences > Other


----------



## cundo92

Does anyone try to build a template with several OPUS instances, loading the keyswitches patchs and try to save it? It takes forever to save. Also when I look to the file size of the project it gets pretty big (around 60mb) with only a few instances load. 
This is normal? I didn't have the same problem with Play on big projects.


----------



## Nimrod7

cundo92 said:


> Does anyone try to build a template with several OPUS instances, loading the keyswitches patchs and try to save it? It takes forever to save.


Yeah same here, Logic halts up to 30-40 secs the template gets heavy. Was thinking that it was my SSD since it was new.

What DAW?


----------



## MarcusD

cqd said:


> There is, but it isn't the most intuitive..hit the pencil button to get into it..then edit the pattern..then hit the power button on the corner, and select middle in the note region..


Thanks. Seems simple enough to use... The fact that inner player GUI doesn't scale with the main outer GUI though... its beginning to cause aggressive eye twitches.

EDIT: Oh wait... I take it back. You can change it in the options... Other > check " Zoom performance UI "

Eye explosions averted..


----------



## Lewis Emblack

AndyP said:


> Has everyone actually got their solo instruments installed by now?
> I am only missing the harp, the cello is now installed where it belongs.
> 
> I still don't understand what the problem with the Installation Center is. Why does it work for most users and for a few not to install the solo instruments easily?
> 
> I still can't get the install path of the harp changed. And until the EW support answers (if then) it will probably take quite a while. They certainly have a lot to do right now.
> 
> At least I'm glad that the rest works, and I have no problems with the orchestrator. I find it quite useful for ostinatos and stacks, although I would have liked to have access to the divisi strings. Once I figure out how the midi export works, it's not a big problem anymore.
> 
> Basically the orchstrator is a beast in terms of computer resources even on computers with more power. I guess that computers with less than 32/64 gb ram and less than 6/8 cores can only be used limitedly.
> 
> Even the solo violin and cello I don't think is as bad as it is made out to be. I don't know the PLAY version, the OPUS version is usable and I know worse.
> 
> Tomorrow I will try OPUS in the DAW and how it behaves in VEP with Cubase. And make a new attempt with the Harp installation. I like to have everything complete so that the update can push into the backup.
> 
> I expected all kinds of problems (maybe they will come with further use), but not that the installation of the additional solo instruments will cause such problems for me.


I apologise if you have already done so, but have you tried deleting the paths files and reinstall the Installation Centre?

I am on 32GB quad-core and so far with the purge function it seems better with resources than PLAY was. Although I expect freezing to still be on the cards with bigger projects, the option to load purged means I can create a full template without having to load the whole thing frozen and unfreeze and refreeze as I go. In Play to load the same articulations that Orchestrator does would most likely require some freezing, whereas that does it easily and barely touches the RAM.
Going to do some testing though as I am curious as to how it compares.


----------



## MauroPantin

To @Toecutter and everyone else that asked

- Reporting back regarding CPU usage. I've found something weird going on. I'm not entirely sure how OPUS is measuring CPU usage, but Reaper reports a much, MUCH lower usage than OPUS. It varies but at a couple of points OPUS was showing almost 10x the Reaper Performance Meter value. Haven't had any sound dropouts or bottlenecks with a very basic orchestra (test was all legato patches for an entire orchestra, playing two tutti chords triggering the legato transitions after a full purge). So I'm inclined to trust Reaper on this.

- I did not compare the CPU usage to Play. Reason being that Play does not have a sample recall on the fly as OPUS does with full purge. This function inherently needs more CPU power. I would have to get similar streaming settings in order to compare, but the two samplers have different ways to set it up and as far as I've seen in the manual or in the preferences section, there's no way to be sure that the settings are similar, the approaches are different. I don't feel that there is a way to make a fair apples to apples comparison.

- OPUS is still a bit bleeding edge, I had a couple of freezes that forced me to restart my DAW, all mainly related to switching "MOODS" whilst playing. 

- Regarding sound, I hear it all sounding very similar to the old HO. New string section is okay, but I think I'll be sticking with the old one. Brass is good, new trumpets seem a bit more nasal so I think they'll cut better at higher dynamics. Woodwind ensembles are great, and the old WWs are somewhat improved. 

- I do notice that overall the balance is a tad better out of the box. String patches are no longer loading with an inexplicable +6db boost in the mixer that I have to correct and overall the default volumes are more in line with a real orchestra. Still needs balancing, but I think this time -at least within the same instrument- the articulations are at a good spot already. 

I think I'm not going back to Play, to be honest. I can endure the slight instability of a v1.0 if I get full purge function in return. More importantly, I haven't seen this commented by anyone yet but the loading times are amazing, much faster than Play for me, and the amount of customization available is nice to have. Also individual instrument download is a superb feature in my case. I don't have to download the entire Silk library just for one flute or whatever for a single project. So yeah, I'm jumping ship to OPUS for good, I think.


----------



## cundo92

Nimrod7 said:


> Yeah same here, Logic halts up to 30-40 secs the template gets heavy. Was thinking that it was my SSD since it was new.
> 
> What DAW?


I have cubase 10.5


----------



## Lewis Emblack

It would be interesting to compare the OPUS and Reaper usages with those shown in task manager, as it isn't the first time Reaper and a plugin (can't recollect which) have shown different numbers.

The load times are something I forgot to mention, even for the entire orchestra of patches in Orchestrator we are talking seconds. I see no reason why anyone would go back to PLAY, especially once the kinks are ironed out, unless it is purely due to familiarity. PLAY is obsolete, and to be honest, most other players aren't as good as this.


----------



## Tremendouz

MauroPantin said:


> Reporting back regarding CPU usage. I've found something weird going on. I'm not entirely sure how OPUS is measuring CPU usage, but Reaper reports a much, MUCH lower usage than OPUS. It varies but at a couple of points OPUS was showing almost 10x the Reaper Performance Meter value


Are you looking at total CPU or RT (realtime) CPU in the performance meter? The latter (needs to be toggled on to be visible iirc) is quite often higher than the former and when RT CPU goes to 100%, that's when the project struggles to play back in real time and starts slowing down.


----------



## AndyP

Lewis Emblack said:


> I apologise if you have already done so, but have you tried deleting the paths files and reinstall the Installation Centre?
> 
> I am on 32GB quad-core and so far with the purge function it seems better with resources than PLAY was. Although I expect freezing to still be on the cards with bigger projects, the option to load purged means I can create a full template without having to load the whole thing frozen and unfreeze and refreeze as I go. In Play to load the same articulations that Orchestrator does would most likely require some freezing, whereas that does it easily and barely touches the RAM.
> Going to do some testing though as I am curious as to how it compares.


Yes, tried everything. Deleted the paths, reinstalled Installation Center 2 times. I suspect that somewhere this information is written to some file and it no longer "updates" on my computers.

So far I have only tried OPUS standalone, not in the DAW. Purge I have not yet tried, so I will try that all tomorrow.

I tried it on an iMac i9 with 128 gb and a Mac Pro 6.1 12 core with 64 gb. Probably there are also settings in OPUS that can be adjusted to improve performance (like in PLAY).

In this respect, I am optimistic that it still goes much better. Maybe it runs better in the DAW than standalone although I don't think it makes a big difference. Would have liked to try more today, but the damn installation has robbed me of time.


----------



## BEflat

KitNexu said:


> Does anyone else have this issue, or is it just me?


Yes...I am having the same issue. I have EDUX subscription so I don't know if that is the reason.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

With the Orchestrator, I'm noticing that loading a new preset does not remove the instrument instances from the previous one? Is that happening to anyone else?


----------



## MauroPantin

Tremendouz said:


> Are you looking at total CPU or RT (realtime) CPU in the performance meter? The latter (needs to be toggled on to be visible iirc) is quite often higher than the former and when RT CPU goes to 100%, that's when the project struggles to play back in real time and starts slowing down.


I was looking at both, I have RT visible. It is a bit higher, but not by much. I've never seen very significant differences between the two, though. Did not think of using the task manager, might try that later.

I forgot to mention that I disabled the OPUS default reverb for all patches and bussed the orch through Spaces II as you would in a normal workflow. I'm going to set up something a bit more robust now, include all this in my regular production template and see where I'm standing then.

As a side note: How many of you here are finding themselves writing "Play" on your posts and then having to go back and correct to "OPUS" because you meant the new sampler? Just me?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

AndyP said:


> Now I have done the following.
> The wrong path is in the json file where the paths for installing the Installation Center are stored. I have now edited this file and entered my hard drive with the EW folder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Installation Center now shows the correct path for the harp. Now I am curious if it works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Interestingly, the path is now correct for the cello even though I changed the harp.


The neverending wonders of software development :/


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Lewis Emblack said:


> Can anyone check something in Orchestrator for me please?
> I noticed there are a number of patches that do no load at all or only load on occasion (eg. Hollywood Adventure 07 (7-8) doesn't load at all) Just want to know if it is this something to do with my download or settings, or something that needs a fix.


Loads here for me


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Loads here for me


Yeah, managed to get it working by switching the pre-load switch about...now works whether on or off...strange glitch 😂


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Lewis Emblack said:


> Yeah, managed to get it working by switching the pre-load switch about...now works whether on or off...strange glitch 😂


Probably time for bed then, good sign there
I am still recovering from last night's ridiculous marathon!

Interview went well though, even though I was half-asleep


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Speaking of signs or is it SINE *cough*...
Has anyone checked out the OT thread (already been there)?

Nice product, probably best to save your money though 'ey


----------



## Trash Panda

How do we still not have one. Single. User. Demo?


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Probably time for bed then, good sign there
> I am still recovering from last night's ridiculous marathon!
> 
> Interview went well though, even though I was half-asleep


Yeah, I'm going shortly - my brain is pretty fried now and eyes have already gone to bed I think 😂

Glad to hear the interview went well though! 👍🏻

Tallinn looks great but unfortunately I don't think they will take the moths in my wallet for payment.
Once I get to the point where I have the funds for another big ticket VI I think Jade Orchestra has taken that spot...That or Ancient or Dark ERA.


----------



## Christian Javet

Am I the only one cursed with Orchestrator not loading up. I have reinstalled Opus and Orchestrator multiple times without any joy...


----------



## Evans

Does anyone who picked up Opus use a VEPro server separate from your DAW? If so, how's the latency with the Orchestrator? 

For example, I'm thinking about the possibility of using the Orchestrator like a smarter "Stories" type of multi patch as seen in ProjectSAM Lumina. Kinda wondering how that'd go for me if it's on a server machine.

EW Support hinted that it may be possible for the Orchestrator and the libraries to be installed on separate machines, but it needs to be tested to understand how thoroughly that functions.

I suppose I could pick up a month of Composer Cloud, but the monthly plan is only Gold and feels like a waste to me.


----------



## Evans

Trash Panda said:


> How do we still not have one. Single. User. Demo?


Indeed. Seems like at least some people are up and running, but no audio here or at another forum I visit. No user videos on YouTube of which I'm aware. No new content from EastWest.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Trash Panda said:


> How do we still not have one. Single. User. Demo?


Everyone has been busy playing with their new toys.




Evans said:


> Does anyone who picked up Opus use a VEPro server separate from your DAW? If so, how's the latency with the Orchestrator?
> 
> For example, I'm thinking about the possibility of using the Orchestrator like a smarter "Stories" type of multi patch as seen in ProjectSAM Lumina. Kinda wondering how that'd go for me if it's on a server machine.
> 
> EW Support hinted that it may be possible for the Orchestrator and the libraries to be installed on separate machines, but it needs to be tested to understand how thoroughly that functions.
> 
> I suppose I could pick up a month of Composer Cloud, but the monthly plan is only Gold and feels like a waste to me.


@William Hoshal does so check back a few pages. There was something about AU3 not playing nice on VEPro7, but AU works fine...not familiar with it, so paraphrasing. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Evans said:


> Does anyone who picked up Opus use a VEPro server separate from your DAW? If so, how's the latency with the Orchestrator?
> 
> For example, I'm thinking about the possibility of using the Orchestrator like a smarter "Stories" type of multi patch as seen in ProjectSAM Lumina. Kinda wondering how that'd go for me if it's on a server machine.
> 
> EW Support hinted that it may be possible for the Orchestrator and the libraries to be installed on separate machines, but it needs to be tested to understand how thoroughly that functions.
> 
> I suppose I could pick up a month of Composer Cloud, but the monthly plan is only Gold and feels like a waste to me.


I will report back on this tomorrow as I have a dedicated PC for VE PRO
But also run it in VE PRO on my mac mini DAW host to keep things loaded


----------



## Macrawn

Christian Javet said:


> Am I the only one cursed with Orchestrator not loading up. I have reinstalled Opus and Orchestrator multiple times without any joy...


Having the same problem bud. I have a ticked in. They said they know about it and are fixing it today but looks like not happening yet.


----------



## Christian Javet

Macrawn said:


> Having the same problem bud. I have a ticked in. They said they know about it and are fixing it today but looks like not happening yet.


thanks for letting me know. 

I just received their answer too: "That's a bug we know about - we'll get it fixed and I'll let you know when that's updated/what needs to be adjusted on your end."


----------



## Macrawn

Christian Javet said:


> thanks for letting me know.
> 
> I just received their answer too: "That's a bug we know about - we'll get it fixed and I'll let you know when that's updated/what needs to be adjusted on your end."


Cool, give us an update when they "say when".


----------



## dzilizzi

Trash Panda said:


> How do we still not have one. Single. User. Demo?


Or a blockbuster!


----------



## J-M

I've occasionally checked on this thread and honestly, so far the most interesting thing to me is the OPUS player itself. The amounts of RAM I could save with that sweet sweet purge function...


----------



## alcorey

I'm running on a 4 Ghz Quad core i7, 32 gb, built in 2015. 3 ssd's. 1 - 2TB (where I put 1.5 TB of EW Diamond's libraries with the Opus install) and 2 500'gbs - 1 for OS Big Sur 11.2 and Logic Pro X and the other for misc files.
I sub'd to CC+ for 1 year @ $299 and the install progressed perfectly without a hitch. Running Maximum multithread in preferences as I had a few dropouts without it on while using Orchestrator.
I'm hitting 70% +or- CPU now running the heavy presets.
Everything else has run smoothly so far but I still have a lot of wandering to do!!!
Liking it quite a bit compared to Play and I have already found the Orchestrator to be inspirational


----------



## robgb

Trash Panda said:


> How do we still not have one. Single. User. Demo?


There was a guy live streaming on YouTube last night, but he doesn't seem to have left the stream up. He didn't sound happy with Opus, however. Don't know if that changed as the night went along, but I'm curious about what his final verdict was.


----------



## Dex

J-M said:


> I've occasionally checked on this thread and honestly, so far the most interesting thing to me is the OPUS player itself. The amounts of RAM I could save with that sweet sweet purge function...


On the other hand, for $500 you could buy a lot of RAM.


----------



## Wabashprof

alcorey said:


> Liking it quite a bit compared to Play and I have already found the Orchestrator to be inspirational


I'm glad you're enjoying Orchestrator (no sarcasm). I just wish I could install it. Email from support "That's a bug we know about - we'll get it fixed when Pace/iLok is available" was 10 hours ago. Still no dice.


----------



## J-M

Dex said:


> On the other hand, for $500 you could buy a lot of RAM.


Indeed! But if they will make the OPUS engine available separately...that's another thing.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Whoa! I finally experienced the "white noise of death". It happened when I loaded a viola patch....closed/opened the player and it never returned. Hope they iron this out soon.

Also hoping they get the Orchestrator licensing bug fixed so I can try it out.

Overall, I really like the new player. I find it very intuitive and it's easy on the eyes. Blends in nicely with Logic. The Automation section is really cool, as you can easily assign the CC parameters. For example, I added Expression to the Mod wheel so I can recreate those "Niente" patches from HO.


----------



## dcoscina

I've had various issues- I've pointed the Winds more than a few times to the folders but I continue to get a msg about missing samples- once I manually remind OPUS what folder my library is in, it loads up. 

Flute 1, 2 and Bassoon Solo provide a delightful white noise that almost deafened me. Sheesh. 

Glad I just sunk $19 into this so far as Orchestrator is a no-go for me (I know various others this also plagues) and there are weird balance issues with the close mics on several instruments (none more egregious than the 2 Horns. I've had to turn the Close mics almost off because they sound horrid).


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Wabashprof said:


> I'm glad you're enjoying Orchestrator (no sarcasm). I just wish I could install it. Email from support "That's a bug we know about - we'll get it fixed when Pace/iLok is available" was 10 hours ago. Still no dice.


I didn't run into the license issue with the Orchestrator, but there's a great number of presets that just won't work/load. Not sure why.


----------



## ChazC

Just a quick Q for those who already had Orch Diamond before installing Opus - do the new Opus downloads actually update any of the original HO files?


----------



## ennbr

ChazC said:


> Just a quick Q for those who already had Orch Diamond before installing Opus - do the new Opus downloads actually update any of the original HO files?


Yes the installer creates a new Opus folder in each of the directories


----------



## ChazC

ennbr said:


> Yes the installer creates a new Opus folder in each of the directories


So, it removes some of the original HO files and puts updated versions in this new Opus folder? 

I want to know if they've actually tweaked any of the original recordings or if the supposed improvements are just scripting changes.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Looks like both the Orchestrator file error and the white noise issue are being actively worked on, so hopefully EW will have them addressed by end of this week. Think I'll wait until then (gotta expect a few launch pains - nice that EW support is on it. Better than OT, who still hasn't fixed SINE's mic merge issue months after the BSS launch - I thought that was basically the only unique feature of SINE? Apart from crashing.).

Anybody made anything with the Orchestrator for those that do have it working? Does it just spit out the Superman theme as was implied? Have you been sued yet?


----------



## Bryan

dcoscina said:


> I've had various issues- I've pointed the Winds more than a few times to the folders but I continue to get a msg about missing samples- once I manually remind OPUS what folder my library is in, it loads up.
> 
> Flute 1, 2 and Bassoon Solo provide a delightful white noise that almost deafened me. Sheesh.
> 
> Glad I just sunk $19 into this so far as Orchestrator is a no-go for me (I know various others this also plagues) and there are weird balance issues with the close mics on several instruments (none more egregious than the 2 Horns. I've had to turn the Close mics almost off because they sound horrid).


I just fixed the white noise issue. I found the installer had downloaded the close mics into a separate folder on a different drive! ??? I moved the close mic samples over with the rest and it seems to have taken care of the issues of both white noise and the missing sample notice.


----------



## ennbr

ChazC said:


> So, it removes some of the original HO files and puts updated versions in this new Opus folder?


From what I can tell it just adds to the folders top is Before bottom is After install I selected the Strings folder


----------



## Joshua Day

I’m trying to make a decision whether to buy this upgrade for my current HO Gold or if I should spring for BBCSO Core instead. I tend to prefer keyswitches and the KW strings patches in HO were useless.


----------



## dcoscina

Bryan said:


> I just fixed the white noise issue. I found the installer had downloaded the close mics into a separate folder on a different drive! ??? I moved the close mic samples over with the rest and it seems to have taken care of the issues of both white noise and the missing sample notice.


How did you locate those folders? I have 10 drives so I wouldn’t even know where to begin.


----------



## ennbr

Joshua Day said:


> I’m trying to make a decision whether to buy this upgrade for my current HO Gold or if I should spring for BBCSO Core instead. I tend to prefer keyswitches and the KW strings patches in HO were useless.


Tough decision here is a screen shot of the new Keyswitches hope it helps


----------



## proxima

OK, having only read about 20% of these 267 pages..I thought Opus was going to support older libraries (e.g. Silk)? Is that in a future update?

It's clear that East West is rolling Opus 1.0.0 out with minimal prep - the support site is lacking all kinds of references to Opus.


----------



## Chaosmod

dzilizzi said:


> But you wrote a blockbuster, right?


I hadn't before Opus - I doubt it improved my chances much.


----------



## Joshua Day

ennbr said:


> Tough decision here is a screen shot of the new Keyswitches hope it helps


Thank you! That’s really cool actually.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Does anyone know where/how exactly one exports stuff from Orchestrator to DAW?


----------



## cqd

mopsiflopsi said:


> Does anyone know where/how exactly one exports stuff from Orchestrator to DAW?


I haven't hit export as such, but in pro tools anyway you can route the outputs of it to the midi in of other tracks and record it that way.. presumably it works similarly in other daws..


----------



## mopsiflopsi

cqd said:


> I haven't hit export as such, but in pro tools anyway you can route the outputs of it to the midi in of other tracks and record it that way.. presumably it works similarly in other daws..


With Sonuscore's TOC, it's a drag&drop feature, which you can drag to your track list to create tracks automatically from the generated midi. Routing the output does not give me the patterns from multiple different instruments.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

mopsiflopsi said:


> With Sonuscore's TOC, it's a drag&drop feature, which you can drag to your track list to create tracks automatically from the generated midi. Routing the output does not give me the patterns from multiple different instruments.


Ok, nevermind, you're right I have to assign the correct channel and then it works.


----------



## alcorey

proxima said:


> OK, having only read about 20% of these 267 pages..I thought Opus was going to support older libraries (e.g. Silk)? Is that in a future update?
> 
> It's clear that East West is rolling Opus 1.0.0 out with minimal prep - the support site is lacking all kinds of references to Opus.


Silk opens up in Opus already (as do almost all of the older libraries) if you have purchased it


----------



## Jay Panikkar

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> What about RAM usage compared to PLAY? Are there optimisations?


Opus doesn't allocate additional "engine memory" the way PLAY does, so the sampler itself uses _much_ less RAM per instance as compared to PLAY. 

The new patches take up twice the RAM, even if I only load 1 mic position. This is definitely not intended behaviour, as I mentioned in my post, there's some funny business going on with the same samples being loaded multiple times and unused samples being loaded as well. Once these bugs are resolved, I think the new patches will use the same amount of memory as PLAY version.


----------



## cqd

Jay Panikkar said:


> Opus doesn't allocate additional "engine memory" the way PLAY does, so the sampler itself uses _much_ less RAM per instance as compared to PLAY.
> 
> The new patches take up twice the RAM, even if I only load 1 mic position. This is definitely not intended behaviour, as I mentioned in my post, there's some funny business going on with the same samples being loaded multiple times and unused samples being loaded as well. Once these bugs are resolved, I think the new patches will use the same amount of memory as PLAY version.


Yeah, It didn't seem to be unloading instruments for me yesterday.. thought it might be PT.. once I loaded the session a second time it was fine..seems to be reporting higher processor usage than process lasso is too..


----------



## Olang

Another bug: switching to new inner tab (articulation, automation) will reenable all mic positions.


----------



## Jay Panikkar

cqd said:


> Yeah, It didn't seem to be unloading instruments for me yesterday.. thought it might be PT.. once I loaded the session a second time it was fine..seems to be reporting higher processor usage than process lasso is too..


Opus CPU usage per instance seems lower than PLAY but when I play some instruments on a loop, the CPU usage is all over the place in the Task Manager. Both Opus and PLAY are reporting inaccurate CPU usage in their UI.


----------



## cqd

Olang said:


> Another bug: switching to new inner tab (articulation, automation) will reenable all mic positions.


Don't think changing articulation was changing mics for me..


----------



## method1

I didn't know the update was available, logged into my EW installation center and there are no updates? Still the same old stuff. I have CC+


----------



## alcorey

method1 said:


> I didn't know the update was available, logged into my EW installation center and there are no updates? Still the same old stuff. I have CC+


Update the EW Installation Center and then you should see them


----------



## AndyP

EW Support sent me the solution to the installation problem for the Solo instruments and it works:

Please go to /Library/Application Support/East West/ProductChunks/

In that folder, do a search for .ewu files - if you have a .ewu, .ewus, or .ewui file in that folder, delete it (for the solo series or anything else).

Then download this - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VY1WvpP8kDBhp7GDtZYzROFMUuFXSa3T/view?usp=sharing

Unzip it and then put those 3 library folders in whatever location you want to download the library to. 

Open the EW Installation Center and make sure the Main Menu > Library Directories... ' has that location set as the 'Default.


Click the main menu again/choose 'Reconnect libraries'

Not this -> After that runs, delete the 3 folder you put in the download place,
But this -> then in the EW Installation Center on each of those libraries, hover over them, click the gear that pops up on the right side and choose 'Download and reinstall'.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

I having issues with Orchestrator. I have Violas and Celli an octave apart, playing the same pattern and the same note (lowest), same settings and everything, and they just can't manage to sync up. I keep ending up with a divergent pattern. Anyone else have this issue?


----------



## ennbr

AndyP said:


> In that folder, do a search for .ewu files - if you have a .ewu, .ewus, or .ewui file in that folder, delete it (for the solo series or anything else).
> 
> Then download this - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VY1WvpP8kDBhp7GDtZYzROFMUuFXSa3T/view?usp=sharing


Links not working Andy


----------



## AndyP

ennbr said:


> Links not working Andy


Try this instead.


----------



## plasticart

I'm sure I'm missing something, but I can open only the Orchestrator Ensembles presets, the Ostinatos are there but they don't load any instrument when I double click them. Same for the Scores.


----------



## ennbr

AndyP said:


> Try this instead.


thanks


----------



## shamcra

I have read many comments here about various problems with getting Opus to install correctly, finding all audio files and getting it to work at all.
I myself am on a CCX subscription, and thus do not get the orchestrator to work due to a missing key file in iLok.
The common problem we all have seems to be a total lack of communication on EW's part. If you want to get any update on how the work of solving the problems is progressing, you have to skim through lots of Facebook messages to find anything at all from EW.
This is not ok. If EW wants to continue to be a major player in the VST market, they must take their customers seriously, otherwise there are other companies that have understood the thing with proactive communication.


----------



## cqd

shamcra said:


> The common problem we all have seems to be a total lack of communication on EW's part.


Several people have posted their communication from east west?..
They were getting back to emails within 15 minutes?..


----------



## ennbr

shamcra said:


> The common problem we all have seems to be a total lack of communication on EW's part. If you want to get any update on how the work of solving the problems is progressing, you have to skim through lots of Facebook messages to find anything at all from EW.


Can't speak for today but last night I clicked on the Leave A Message and even though it stated that no Agents were available I got an email within 30 mins.


----------



## shamcra

cqd said:


> Several people have posted their communication from east west?..
> They were getting back to emails within 15 minutes?..


That's an individual case communication, and that's all good. I was talking about the common known issues many have.


----------



## Project Anvil

For those experiencing white noise (@Jeremy Spencer @dcoscina @SlHarder), a temporary fix may be to get Ice9 and put it on your master bus. It will automatically drop the volume radically when it detects dangerous volumes: https://freevstplugins.net/cerberus-audio-ice9-automute/

It will also trigger if you've got super loud things in your track, but you should be good if your mix is a little lower and stays away from hitting 0db.

As for the lack of user demos, they'll come soon enough once all the various issues have been resolved.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

mopsiflopsi said:


> I didn't run into the license issue with the Orchestrator, but there's a great number of presets that just won't work/load. Not sure why.





plasticart said:


> I'm sure I'm missing something, but I can open only the Orchestrator Ensembles presets, the Ostinatos are there but they don't load any instrument when I double click them. Same for the Scores.


I had the same issue and found toggling the "no pre-load" switch on and trying again seemed to solve it (works whether on or off now) though I have also gotten a fix from support if that doesn't work or comes back.


----------



## kingy10kingy

Someone posted a livestream video of Opus on youtube .. finally something to see


----------



## cqd

Just seeing as he's complaining about it..it looks like the midi controllers can be changed in the midi control window..


----------



## cqd

Some of the solo violin is very usable now..

Not what loads up initially, funnily enough, but a few of the legato patches are actually very nice..


----------



## Nevermeister

Hi guys, i have a ccx subscription and i'm encountering this annoying problem with opus: patches use 3 times the ram than before with play. If i open 5 instances of opus with keyswitches patches my ram escalates at 70/75%. 
I had no problems with play and i used big templates with all eastwest instruments. This is very annoying.
I have also the bug with the close mics, but the thing that annoys me more is the ram usage. Did you noticed this issue?


----------



## scottbuckley

Two questions for you smart folks - my Opus player is missing libraries (e.g. HW Brass), although it is installed and activated (and load fine in Play). Any quick fix to get Opus to see missing libraries? I've tried the 'Install product' feature with no luck.

Secondly, do the new Opus libraries appear as separate libraries in the browser, or are they integrated into existing libraries? I'm also not sure if Opus is seeing them, either...


----------



## scottbuckley

cqd said:


> Some of the solo violin is very usable now..
> 
> Not what loads up initially, funnily enough, but a few of the legato patches are actually very nice..


That's good news. :D


----------



## Markrs

scottbuckley said:


> Two questions for you smart folks - my Opus player is missing libraries (e.g. HW Brass), although it is installed and activated (and load fine in Play). Any quick fix to get Opus to see missing libraries? I've tried the 'Install product' feature with no luck.


This happened to me as well. Under the cogwheel icon you can install a library, point it to you HW Brass folder and it should add it toOpus.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Nevermeister said:


> Hi guys, i have a ccx subscription and i'm encountering this annoying problem with opus: patches use 3 times the ram than before with play. If i open 5 instances of opus with keyswitches patches my ram escalates at 70/75%.
> I had no problems with play and i used big templates with all eastwest instruments. This is very annoying.
> I have also the bug with the close mics, but the thing that annoys me more is the ram usage. Did you noticed this issue?


I noticed the keyswitch patches have more articulations in each so maybe that is part of it? OPUS minimum and recommended requirements are higher for OPUS though.


----------



## cqd

I am noticing weird ram usage too..


----------



## AndyP

scottbuckley said:


> Two questions for you smart folks - my Opus player is missing libraries (e.g. HW Brass), although it is installed and activated (and load fine in Play). Any quick fix to get Opus to see missing libraries? I've tried the 'Install product' feature with no luck.
> 
> Secondly, do the new Opus libraries appear as separate libraries in the browser, or are they integrated into existing libraries? I'm also not sure if Opus is seeing them, either...


The Solo instrument have their own folders. Only the new instruments are integrated in the old folders. The new patches have an extension in the name (like EX).


----------



## Kabraxis

Vadium said:


> Question to happy Hoopus owners - how many articulations possible per 1 instrument? Is it possible to switch articulation by PrCh, or notes only?


It's possible to trigger all the articulations at once when you assign them to overlapping CCs.





So in here, setting CC9 between 50-63 will trigger both articulations at once.
Not sure about how keyswitches behave.

I see there's an option to use Program Change for articulations, but couldn't figure out how to use it.


----------



## stargazer

I own Hollywood Brass and Strings Diamond, and was looking forward to a better system for articulation switching for those two libraries with Opus.
I don’t need the orchestrator, the woodwinds/perc or the other stuff (the updated player would be nice, though), but there seems to be no way of upgrading only certain parts of the Hollywood series.
So, in my case, from my point of view, I would have to pay $795 (later $995) just to get customizable articulation switches for Hollywood strings and brass.
Guess I’ll have to think twice about that.

Also, according to posts in this thread, the fact that some Play patches are missing in the Opus versions, doesn’t make me more eager to push the buy button.
(Of course I appreciate additional live playable ”performace” patches, but I still want to be able to access all the articulations included in the Play versions.)


----------



## Vadium

My general interest in Opus is timing. Are timing issues in legato patches fixed in strings, for example? Can owners render this simple midi-file by OPUS old 1st violins Legato Slur Powerful (max) patch (and new recorded 1st violins for comparison), please?

I have tried to make a delay compensation patch in 2019, but stop it a while because it very complex purpose to compensate different notes individually... I would be very surprised if Eastwest fixed this problem in the OPUS edition. An example with old HS:


----------



## Kabraxis

Vadium said:


> My general interest in Opus is timing. Are timing issues in legato patches fixed in strings, for example? Can owners render this simple midi-file by OPUS old 1st violins Legato Slur Powerful (max) patch (and new recorded 1st violins for comparison), please?
> 
> I have tried to make a delay compensation patch in 2019, but stop it a while because it very complex purpose to compensate different notes individually... I would be very surprised if Eastwest fixed this problem in the OPUS edition. An example with old HS:



I see you're using the glorious Reaper!
I just wondered if you are aware that you can have track-based time offsets (not delay compensation) right over here:






This feature is for fixing what you're describing, both can have positive and negative offset values, works both with MIDI and audio _items_, without giving up on grid snapping


----------



## Evans

Kabraxis said:


> I see you're using the glorious Reaper!
> I just wondered if you are aware that you can have track-based time offsets (not delay compensation) right over here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This feature is for fixing what you're describing, both can have positive and negative offset values, works both with MIDI and audio _items_, without giving up on grid snapping


I think this is more specifically the problem 



> compensate different notes individually


----------



## Vadium

Kabraxis said:


> I just wondered if you are aware that you can have track-based time offsets (not delay compensation) right over here:


Yes, I know about this time-offsets per track feature, indeed! This option was introduced in Reaper 6 (Dec 2019), but my video made in Sep 2019 

But there are DIFFERENT time offsets per different notes in PLAY HS legato patches, even different between 1st notes and next legato-connected notes... Try to play a quantized C-dur scale with different velocities by HS Legato Bow - and listen to unquantized result..


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

For some reason solo cello isn't appearing as installed in opus, but EW installation centre says it is. Any idea how to fix? All other instruments are installed fine
EDIT: seems to be three .ewu files for opus edition missing in the folder when compared to the other instruments. Deleting opus related files and redownloading didn't help. Looks like the download is screwed for composer cloud X subscribers. How did they mess up so much with this release? Never ending problems.


----------



## scottbuckley

BronzeOrbiter said:


> For some reason solo cello isn't appearing as installed in opus, but EW installation centre says it is. Any idea how to fix? All other instruments are installed fine
> EDIT: seems to be three .ewu files for opus edition missing in the folder when compared to the other instruments. Deleting opus related files and redownloading didn't help. Looks like the download is screwed for composer cloud X subscribers. How did they mess up so much with this release? Never ending problems.


Having the same issues for the cello and HW brass. Really have no clue what I'm doing wrong.


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

scottbuckley said:


> Having the same issues for the cello and HW brass. Really have no clue what I'm doing wrong.


Brass installed fine for me. Going to try deleting all the solo cello related samples and reinstall them as it's not too large a download. Could've just glitched out while downloading everything yesterday.


----------



## scottbuckley

BronzeOrbiter said:


> Brass installed fine for me. Going to try deleting all the solo cello related samples and reinstall them as it's not too large a download. Could've just glitched out while downloading everything yesterday.


Yeah currently clean-installing those two libraries. Fingers crossed.


----------



## TCMQL1

Has anyone figured out a way to properly set up CCs so that they're consistent across the entire library? OPUS seems to have the same inconsistency the PLAY version did where instruments without vibrato XF have dynamics set to CC1, and instruments with it have them set to CC11 (with vibrato now set to CC1). You can swap the parameters in the 'midi control' section, but it seems to work more like a midi transformer, converting CC1 to CC11 and vice versa rather than actually allowing you to set dynamics to a particular CC.

It's a real pain in the ass, because if you're using the new KS patches for any instrument with CC11 dynamics and go to switch from legato to a short, any former 'dynamics' data will now be affecting shorts. As a result, you have to reset the CC data every time you want to switch from a long to a short, else it won't play at the correct volume for the velocity controlled dynamics.

I've also noticed that some instruments (compare 1st violins shorts to their KS equivalents) seem to respond to a mix of both CC11 and velocity when using shorts in a KS patch, where the dynamics seem to be controlled by velocity but the volume doesn't (???). I feel like I'm missing something here!


----------



## Tremendouz

TCMQL1 said:


> Has anyone figured out a way to properly set up CCs so that they're consistent across the entire library? OPUS seems to have to same inconsistency the PLAY version did where instruments without vibrato XF have dynamics set to CC1, and instruments with it have them set to CC11 (with vibrato now set to CC1). You can swap the parameters in the 'midi control' section, but it seems to work more like a midi transformer, converting CC1 to CC11 and vice versa rather than actually allowing you to set dynamics to a particular CC.
> 
> It's a real pain in the ass, because if you're using the new KS patches for any instrument with CC11 dynamics and go to switch from legato to a short, any former 'dynamics' data will now be affecting shorts. As a result, you have to reset the CC data every time you want to switch from a long to a short, else it won't play at the correct volume for the velocity controlled dynamics.
> 
> I've also noticed that some instruments (compare 1st violins shorts to their KS equivalents) seem to respond to a mix of both CC11 and velocity when using shorts in a KS patch, where the dynamics seem to be controlled by velocity but the volume doesn't (???). I feel like I'm missing something here!


Really makes you appreciate the simplicity of something like Cinematic Studio Strings, doesn't it? I love how my HODiamond sounds but I just never end up using it cause it's so laborous


----------



## holywilly

Unsubscribe CC after trying OPUS. Never get orchestrator to work, done uninstall and reinstalling, re-download the samples.....


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

holywilly said:


> Unsubscribe CC after trying OPUS. Never get orchestrator to work, done uninstall and reinstalling, re-download the samples.....


I know the feeling. I'm getting sick of the constant bursts of white noise and having to restart my DAW. It's barely usable in it's current state.


----------



## I like music

My personal hope was that most of the effort would go into fixing inconsistencies in articulations, or tweaking legatos etc on the older libraries. Seems that hasn't materialised. 

Curious what people think of the old woodwinds. I know we've had a couple of opinions but I hope someone is able to put up some music where we hear the woodwinds exposed.


----------



## holywilly

I own the complete Hollywood Orchestra Diamond, and I guess I’ll stick with that.


----------



## Evans

I like music said:


> My personal hope was that most of the effort would go into fixing inconsistencies in articulations, or tweaking legatos etc on the older libraries. Seems that hasn't materialised.


Funny enough, I would have paid a healthy amount if they _had _fixed old phasing issues, resolved inconsistencies in attack delays, and removed some flat-out bad takes that should have never made the original launch. They didn't even need to record new content.


----------



## Eptesicus

Tremendouz said:


> Really makes you appreciate the simplicity of something like Cinematic Studio Strings, doesn't it? I love how my HODiamond sounds but I just never end up using it cause it's so laborous



Same for me. I still think HO sounds very good, especially strings and brass. BUT, the cinematic studio series sounds just as good (if not better in quite a few areas) and it is simply so much easier to use due to the consistency in patches/articulations and control.

From people's first impressions it doesn't sound like OPUS addresses the usability enough unfortunately.


----------



## j0fer

I'm going to risk operating without a flame-proof suit and say that to me the strings do sound better/smoother.


----------



## plasticart

Lewis Emblack said:


> I had the same issue and found toggling the "no pre-load" switch on and trying again seemed to solve it (works whether on or off now) though I have also gotten a fix from support if that doesn't work or comes back.


I can't seem to find this switch. However I tried every Ostinatos and Scores presets and the only ones loading correctly and playing are the Strings Motions ones, which by the way are pretty cool.
I can't wait to have everything fixed and setting up correctly, seems like an unfinished buggy update so far.
It also re-downloaded the whole Diamond Brass from scratch, despite having pointed the downloader to the right folder (it worked with Strings), so I had something like half terabyte filled with duplicate brass content.


----------



## dzilizzi

I want to thank you all for going through this frustration of installing and reporting/dealing with all these new product issues. I'm going to pull the trigger in the next day or so once the initial rush is over, hopefully, they will release fixes. 

(I'm also waiting on a drive.)


----------



## jdrcomposer

plasticart said:


> I can't seem to find this switch. However I tried every Ostinatos and Scores presets and the only ones loading correctly and playing are the Strings Motions ones, which by the way are pretty cool.
> I can't wait to have everything fixed and setting up correctly, seems like an unfinished buggy update so far.
> It also re-downloaded the whole Diamond Brass from scratch, despite having pointed the downloader to the right folder (it worked with Strings), so I had something like half terabyte filled with duplicate brass content.


I seem to have found a workaround for OPUS not seeing installed libraries, tried it out with the solo cello and it worked. If you have a library fully installed but not showing up,

1. Locate a patch from that library in the database section of OPUS (where you can download individual instruments)
2. Download that patch and load it up
3. Restart Opus, and the library should show up under the installed libraries. It will probably show you that you need to download the rest of the patches, but you can right-click on the library and point it to the destination that you had originally installed it in. 

Hopefully they get a fix out for this and various other issues soon, but this has worked for me.


----------



## Nevermeister

dzilizzi said:


> I want to thank you all for going through this frustration of installing and reporting/dealing with all these new product issues. I'm going to pull the trigger in the next day or so once the initial rush is over, hopefully, they will release fixes.
> 
> (I'm also waiting on a drive.)


That's the right thing to do. Summarizing my issues with opus:
- The Orchestrator doesn't work: key missing
- Weird ram usage: an old hollywood strings/brass/piano etc patch on Opus with same samples etc. weight 3 times heavier
- Close mic bug: if i deactivate the close mic when i switch tab it reactivates by itself.
At this stage is unusable for me.
- Solo cello and solo harp disappeared.


----------



## EgM

Mentioned it a few pages back but it got lost in the noise, there's an issue switching articulations where it doesn't work properly. It cuts the previous articulation, like it resets the channel or something. You can hear a blank for a few milliseconds. May have to do with it changing mics, etc like some other people mentioned or it just resets the audio engine for some weird reason.

It should just send a note off not kill the audio entirely...


----------



## Orchestrata

Nevermeister said:


> That's the right thing to do. Summarizing my issues with opus:
> - The Orchestrator doesn't work: key missing
> - Weird ram usage: an old hollywood strings/brass/piano etc patch on Opus with same samples etc. weight 3 times heavier
> - Close mic bug: if i deactivate the close mic when i switch tab it reactivates by itself.
> At this stage is unusable for me.
> - Solo cello and solo harp disappeared.


Support sent me a link to an installer that fixes the Orchestrator key missing error. HOWEVER, there are f**king massive bursts of white noise that happen when using certain presets, so it's probably best to avoid it altogether until it's patched.


----------



## Bryan

dcoscina said:


> How did you locate those folders? I have 10 drives so I wouldn’t even know where to begin.


I believe you should start by looking at the preferred directory in the EW installer. That should be where OPUS content downloaded I believe. Then look at your folders for each instrument. Check and see if the .ews files in the sample folders are actually there together. My close mic samples where downloaded into a Opus folder on one drive while the other mics where downloaded to the Hollywood String sample folder. I found it only did this with HWS and HWOW. Percussion has no new content and HWB did it's thing correctly. Hope that helps!


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

Orchestrata said:


> Support sent me a link to an installer that fixes the Orchestrator key missing error. HOWEVER, there are f**king massive bursts of white noise that happen when using certain presets, so it's probably best to avoid it altogether until it's patched.


What why haven't they made this public?


----------



## Bryan

Orchestrata said:


> Support sent me a link to an installer that fixes the Orchestrator key missing error. HOWEVER, there are f**king massive bursts of white noise that happen when using certain presets, so it's probably best to avoid it altogether until it's patched.


My issue was close mics were downloaded into the wrong folder. I had to manually move them and once I did all white noise bursts stopped for me.


----------



## Orchestrata

BronzeOrbiter said:


> What why haven't they made this public?


They asked me for feedback on whether it works for me and what OS I'm on, so I assume they're testing it before rolling it out.


----------



## Orchestrata

Bryan said:


> My issue was close mics were downloaded into the wrong folder. I had to manually move them and once I did all white noise bursts stopped for me.


Awesome, thanks, I'll try that!


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

Orchestrata said:


> They asked me for feedback on whether it works for me and what OS I'm on, so I assume they're testing it before rolling it out.


Ah hopefully not long then. Give it a week or so and they will probably iron out most of the bugs (trying to sound optimistic)


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

Bryan said:


> My issue was close mics were downloaded into the wrong folder. I had to manually move them and once I did all white noise bursts stopped for me.


My stuff has downloaded correctly (apart from solo cello) so I don't think that is the only cause of the white noise ):


----------



## Greeno

Opus orchestrator licence not found when I try to load it, other instruments do work however.


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

jdrcomposer said:


> I seem to have found a workaround for OPUS not seeing installed libraries, tried it out with the solo cello and it worked. If you have a library fully installed but not showing up,
> 
> 1. Locate a patch from that library in the database section of OPUS (where you can download individual instruments)
> 2. Download that patch and load it up
> 3. Restart Opus, and the library should show up under the installed libraries. It will probably show you that you need to download the rest of the patches, but you can right-click on the library and point it to the destination that you had originally installed it in.
> 
> Hopefully they get a fix out for this and various other issues soon, but this has worked for me.


Worked for me too.


----------



## scottbuckley

Greeno said:


> Opus orchestrator licence not found when I try to load it, other instruments do work however.







Same! I wonder what 'key file' is missing...


----------



## TimCox

So far my experience is lots of sample playback issues and odd interface decisions so I'm unistalling for the time being!


----------



## Greeno

scottbuckley said:


> Same! I wonder what 'key file' is missing...


that's exactly what I'm getting, no comms from developers....


----------



## Orchestrata

Greeno said:


> that's exactly what I'm getting, no comms from developers....


This is the link support gave me. I also have the Mac one if you need it. Use at own risk, obviously.


----------



## Evans

Curtis is awesome and had early, good coverage of Modern Scoring Strings, which he used as part of a piece of music. 

Per the description of the video above, this seems to be a bit more of a tour (though he adds disclaimers that it's not exactly a review or meant to be super in depth).


----------



## EgM

Orchestrata said:


> This is the link support gave me. I also have the Mac one if you need it. Use at own risk, obviously.




If you have the Mac install that would indeed be great!


----------



## Prospero The Bun

Orchestrata said:


> This is the link support gave me. I also have the Mac one if you need it. Use at own risk, obviously.



Boom! You are a legend!


----------



## dcoscina

Bryan said:


> I believe you should start by looking at the preferred directory in the EW installer. That should be where OPUS content downloaded I believe. Then look at your folders for each instrument. Check and see if the .ews files in the sample folders are actually there together. My close mic samples where downloaded into a Opus folder on one drive while the other mics where downloaded to the Hollywood String sample folder. I found it only did this with HWS and HWOW. Percussion has no new content and HWB did it's thing correctly. Hope that helps!


Thanks Bryan. I actually re downloaded and installed to a different folder and it seems to have fixed the issue.


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

Orchestrata said:


> This is the link support gave me. I also have the Mac one if you need it. Use at own risk, obviously.



Works now! Thank you  Probably should have just waited for official release but oh well hasn't done any harm yet.


----------



## gfcgfc

EgM said:


> If you have the Mac install that would indeed be great!


+1 Please


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

Is it possible to export midi out of the orchestrator? Can't see an obvious way to do that so far.


----------



## Olang

Anyone know how to stop the effects from applying to each patch on load?


----------



## cqd

BronzeOrbiter said:


> Is it possible to export midi out of the orchestrator? Can't see an obvious way to do that so far.


You can route it out and record it depending on your Daw..


----------



## gfcgfc

gfcgfc said:


> +1 Please


I've actually checked EW installation center and installer 7.2.2 was there. Orchestrator is now working


----------



## Dex

Evans said:


> Funny enough, I would have paid a healthy amount if they _had _fixed old phasing issues, resolved inconsistencies in attack delays, and removed some flat-out bad takes that should have never made the original launch. They didn't even need to record new content.


That they apparently didn’t do that is very disappointing, and gives me no confidence that they ever intend to.


----------



## AndyP

Olang said:


> Anyone know how to stop the effects from applying to each patch on load?


You can deactivate this in the settings menu.


----------



## method1

So far can't even get it installed, keeps failing saying "not enough space" & prompting me to update but the latest update is installed.. I'll come back to this in a couple weeks when they've ironed out some bugs.


----------



## wkundrus

Olang said:


> Anyone know how to stop the effects from applying to each patch on load?


There is a preference. If set, effects are turned of when instruments get loaded.


----------



## wkundrus

method1 said:


> So far can't even get it installed, keeps failing saying "not enough space" & prompting me to update but the latest update is installed.. I'll come back to this in a couple weeks when they've ironed out some bugs.


You need a lot of space for the downloads. Basically twice as much as the download size. You can install to another hard drive first and then move it over.


----------



## AndyP

At the moment I'm testing and except for a display problem where after loading a patch and switching to play the top edge is cut off. I always have to make the window a little larger otherwise I do not see the cpu load.

In the orchestrator I could suddenly not play certain chords. This only worked again after I reloaded OPUS.

The balance of some articulations in the KS patches is sometimes a bit unbalanced. The spiccatos in the 18 violins are clearly too loud.

I like the new trombones and trumpets. The 18 violins would not have been absolutely necessary.
The legato of the solo violin is better than the solo cello. It's pretty bumpy.

Otherwise, everything is there and runs so far. But I am sure that I will still encounter one or the other problem, there is too much that I have not yet tried.


----------



## method1

wkundrus said:


> You need a lot of space for the downloads. Basically twice as much as the download size. You can install to another hard drive first and then move it over.


I have more than enough free space, it's some kind of bug. 5TB available and installing just opus strings.


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

Ok so the orchestrator doesn't appear to have a built in midi export, however OPUS gives a midi output from the orchestrator which can then be handled by your DAW to burn or record to a separate midi track. Honestly once EW iron out the bugs and glitches, I think opus will be a good upgrade for composer cloud users. I can see myself using orchestrator as a valuable tool for sketching. But it's not worth the upgrade price for others at all IMO.


----------



## LightWing

Orchestrata said:


> This is the link support gave me. I also have the Mac one if you need it. Use at own risk, obviously.



Thanks! Tried this. Works but crashes alot in Studio One 5.2 plus you get a boat load of white noise at insane volume levels once in a while. Orchestrator is NOT ready for release at this point. The marketing hype was way ahead of the actually deliverable and stable code.


----------



## LightWing

gfcgfc said:


> I've actually checked EW installation center and installer 7.2.2 was there. Orchestrator is now working


Orchestrator is buggy as hell.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

plasticart said:


> I can't seem to find this switch. However I tried every Ostinatos and Scores presets and the only ones loading correctly and playing are the Strings Motions ones, which by the way are pretty cool.
> I can't wait to have everything fixed and setting up correctly, seems like an unfinished buggy update so far.
> It also re-downloaded the whole Diamond Brass from scratch, despite having pointed the downloader to the right folder (it worked with Strings), so I had something like half terabyte filled with duplicate brass content.


It is second down I think on the first tab in the options menu.


----------



## rnb_2

Everything has gone relatively smoothly for me, at least as far as installation goes, but since I just subscribed to CC a few days ago, I didn't have much historical data to deal with. However, now that the 7.2.2 Support update is out, I've downloaded it twice (the name of the file is correct, at least) and installed probably three times, and EW IC still says it sees 7.2.1. This is on a Mac, FWIW.


----------



## cqd

It's kind of weird looking at the different reactions to this vs new spitfire re release adding a few mics they took out a few years ago and charging the price of opus for it..


----------



## Haavard

Just installer and played with Opus and the new libraries.

The good: 
- All patches load blazingly fast, compared to PLAY. Even the heaviest, like the pianos, load almost instantly. I have a new SSD, but on PLAY, the same piano took maybe 15-20 seconds. 
- Sound preview is great
- Some of the new libraries sound amazing, like legato solo violin and 2 trombones. 
- The ensemble orchestrator is very uesful for quickly sketching something and get ideas

The bad: 
- After a while, I have got note dropouts so bad I have to reload Opus. That only takes a few seconds, but still. 
-The orchestrator’s ability to generate generic scores from held chords, while impressive, is ... disturbing. It feels a bit like a high quality version of the automatic accompaniment on old organs. Cheating, basically.

- When I used the «Scores» part of the orchestrator, Opus made Cubase go poof. Happened twice.


----------



## EgM

rnb_2 said:


> Everything has gone relatively smoothly for me, at least as far as installation goes, but since I just subscribed to CC a few days ago, I didn't have much historical data to deal with. However, now that the 7.2.2 Support update is out, I've downloaded it twice (the name of the file is correct, at least) and installed probably three times, and EW IC still says it sees 7.2.1. This is on a Mac, FWIW.



Check in your mac download folder "~/Downloads/EW Product Support/EW Product Installer 7.2.2.pkg" and install it manually. Make sure EW Installation center is closed before you start.


----------



## rnb_2

EgM said:


> Check in your mac download folder "~/Downloads/EW Product Support/EW Product Installer 7.2.2.pkg" and install it manually. Make sure EW Installation center is closed before you start.


Thanks - I did that, and just tried it again after a restart, and still IC says it sees 7.2.1 and wants to download again.


----------



## BasariStudios

So i should repeat...it should be called FLOPUS by the number of complaints...especially on FB, VO and EW pages. Almost not a single happy user.


----------



## AndyP

Can someone explain why e.g. String Violas Divisi Leg BC + PORT + RR12 NI DIV A need 780 mb in Play and 2.1 gb in OPUS?
I guess it is the same patch in OPUS only it is called Violas Leg BC + Slur + Port MAX VIV A.
That's almost three times more ram than in PLAY. And that applies to pretty much all patches.


----------



## cqd

Does opus load 2 mics by default?..


----------



## becseigy

rnb_2 said:


> Thanks - I did that, and just tried it again after a restart, and still IC says it sees 7.2.1 and wants to download again.


Same on Win10. You're not alone


----------



## Nevermeister

AndyP said:


> Can someone explain why e.g. String Violas Divisi Leg BC + PORT + RR12 NI DIV A need 780 mb in Play and 2.1 gb in OPUS?
> I guess it is the same patch in OPUS only it is called Violas Leg BC + Slur + Port MAX VIV A.
> That's almost three times more ram than in PLAY. And that applies to pretty much all patches.


That's exactly the weird RAM issues i'm encountering. I'm talking with the support center and they told me that it's a weird behaviour


----------



## AndyP

Nevermeister said:


> That's exactly the weird RAM issues i'm encountering. I'm talking with the support center and they told me that it's a weird behaviour


On the other hand, the display of the Cubase audio performance (real peak time) in Opus is slightly lower than in Play when I use the same patch. Round about 10-15% lower in OPUS.


----------



## Nevermeister

AndyP said:


> On the other hand, the display of the Cubase audio performance (real peak time) in Opus is slightly lower than in Play when I use the same patch. Round about 10-15% lower in OPUS.


In my case i loaded 5 instances of opus with the default keyswitch patches (basses ks master, Celli ks master, violas ks master etc.) And i had 70/75% of RAM usage. While opus said 8gb RAM usage on the task manager i had 17gb. I loaded only the mid mics. I'm on 32gb RAM PC.


----------



## Orchestrata

EgM said:


> If you have the Mac install that would indeed be great!


Mac download here


----------



## Lazer42

AndyP said:


> Can someone explain why e.g. String Violas Divisi Leg BC + PORT + RR12 NI DIV A need 780 mb in Play and 2.1 gb in OPUS?
> I guess it is the same patch in OPUS only it is called Violas Leg BC + Slur + Port MAX VIV A.
> That's almost three times more ram than in PLAY. And that applies to pretty much all patches.


Part of it is that in Opus you are loading multiple mics are once. However, I've still found it to be much, much better on memory because of the purge feature.


----------



## Lazer42

cqd said:


> Does opus load 2 mics by default?..


2, and sometimes 3. Each mood uses a different combination of 1 - 3 mics from what I have seen.


----------



## AndyP

Nevermeister said:


> In my case i loaded 5 instances of opus with the default keyswitch patches (basses ks master, Celli ks master, violas ks master etc.) And i had 70/75% of RAM usage. While opus said 8gb RAM usage on the task manager i had 17gb. I loaded only the mid mics. I'm on 32gb RAM PC.


10 x the same Legato Cellos patch loaded into Cubase. Opus shows just under 44 gb ram consumption, the system in the activity display just under 53 gb.
So it seems that exactly as much ram is used as OPUS shows. This is completely crazy.

Especially since in fact Main and Sourround Mics are always loaded by default. This is just as crazy.


10 x the same Legato Cellos patch loaded into Cubase. Opus shows just under 44 gb ram consumption, the system in the activity monitor just under 53 gb.
So it seems that exactly as much ram is used as OPUS shows. 

Especially since in fact Main and Sourround Mics are always loaded by default. 

Deactivating the sourround mic so that only the main mic is active lowers the value in OPUS to just under 22 gb, but the activity monitor stays at about 51 gb. So it seems that there is no proper clearing.






Deactivating the sourround mic so that only the main mic is active lowers the value in OPUS to just under 22 gb, but the activity indicator stays at about 51 gb. So it seems that there is no proper clearing.

Now I duplicated another track where only the Mid Mic is active. In the track copy both are activated again because the patch is reloaded.

Now I just duplicate the tracks again.
And this is how it looks when I have 17 tracks of the same patch.






Here the mouse starts to react very sluggishly.


----------



## GhostRIde Media

Lazer42 said:


> Part of it is that in Opus you are loading multiple mics are once. However, I've still found it to be much, much better on memory because of the purge feature.


Again, what is this ”Purge” feature? I feel like I’m missing out on something big!!! :o


----------



## cqd

Lazer42 said:


> 2, and sometimes 3. Each mood uses a different combination of 1 - 3 mics from what I have seen.


Yeah, I was saying that was probably the reason for the ram discrepancy..


----------



## Trash Panda

Curious as to how the “new” purge differs from the purge functionality in Play 6...


----------



## EgM

GhostRIde Media said:


> Again, what is this ”Purge” feature? I feel like I’m missing out on something big!!! :o


It doesn’t preload gigs of RAM but streams from SSD or NVMe on the fly once you play notes


----------



## EgM

Trash Panda said:


> Curious as to how the “new” purge differs from the purge functionality in Play 6...


This one actually works


----------



## AndyP

The moods themselves are a good idea, but I would have preferred to have a mood that loads only the main mics by default.


----------



## AndyP

An now all tracks purged. Purge - confirmed.


----------



## AndyP

However, I don't understand the triple memory requirement for a divisi patch that only has a close mic anyway.


----------



## AndyP

Furthermore:

If you choose the option load without effects in the settings it only has an effect on the normal patches. In the orchestrator the effects are activated anyway.

Also in the orchestrator it is recommended to deactivate the mics you don't want. Saves memory and improves performance.

Edit: Purging activates the extra mic again. I've disabled the surround mics in the orchestrator, after purging they are loaded again.


----------



## LightWing

becseigy said:


> Same on Win10. You're not alone


I'm on Win 10 as well. I clicked on Orchestrator, then 3 horizontal bars to Deinstall it and the same for Opus. Closed Installer and relaunched it. Up came a notice that 7.2.2 was available. THEN I installed Opus and Orchestrator. Try that.


AndyP said:


> Can someone explain why e.g. String Violas Divisi Leg BC + PORT + RR12 NI DIV A need 780 mb in Play and 2.1 gb in OPUS?
> I guess it is the same patch in OPUS only it is called Violas Leg BC + Slur + Port MAX VIV A.
> That's almost three times more ram than in PLAY. And that applies to pretty much all patches.


My initial impression is that OPUS and Orchestrator are HUGE memory hogs and take 3 times as long to load even off an SSD ESPECIALLY loading Ensembles which makes sense because of all the instruments used in the preset patches.


----------



## Nevermeister

That's my situation on Reaper. 5 instances with default keyswitches. It's very weird.
I use the purge and it's nice but the ram usage is not normal.


----------



## shamcra

Ok... a fix is now provided for the orchestrator key. Got it working and running, then some random white noice suddenly appeared... Restarted the Opus engine and it worked fine again... for a while... This isn't a ready product. I'm not a Beta tester. I'm a customer who pay for my products. Some glitches and quirkes can be expected for a new play engine, but this is way too buggy for a release.


----------



## EgM

rnb_2 said:


> Thanks - I did that, and just tried it again after a restart, and still IC says it sees 7.2.1 and wants to download again.



Yeah, EW Installation Center will still say you have 7.2.1 but Orchestrator works after you manually install it. But for it to work, IC has to be closed


----------



## Macrawn

EgM said:


> Yeah, EW Installation Center will still say you have 7.2.1 but Orchestrator works after you manually install it. But for it to work, IC has to be closed


I get that same thing. Says I have 7.2.1, and after I download and install 7.2.2 it still says I have 7.2.1 and to download it again. 

The orchestrator only half works for me. I can open it up but only the non "animated" sustain only type presets work. The rest don't.


----------



## cqd

Macrawn said:


> The orchestrator only half works for me. I can open it up but only the non "animated" sustain only type presets work. The rest don't.


Are you sure you're using it right?..
You have to..
Hit the pencil to edit the pattern..
Hit the power button to turn it on..
Change the note region to middle (I think.. well, all doesn't work..)

It's actually class, I must say..


----------



## Nimrod7

Apparently loading saved patches (Logic Channel Strips) with Opus, doesn't work
Discovered the hard way, spend 2 days building template patches, which they load back OPUS empty. 

Great.


----------



## EgM

Started editing a pattern in orchestrator for 1 minute, changed note, beachball, force quit...

Yeah, I'll wait a while before doing anything with it


----------



## ThomasS

Nevermeister said:


> In my case i loaded 5 instances of opus with the default keyswitch patches (basses ks master, Celli ks master, violas ks master etc.) And i had 70/75% of RAM usage. While opus said 8gb RAM usage on the task manager i had 17gb. I loaded only the mid mics. I'm on 32gb RAM PC.


I'm not sure what Opus means by its reported RAM usage. I experimented with your setup, (5 instances of Opus with ks masters of vln1, vln2, vla, vcl, cb). Using diamond, with all mics, when I load them with "Never Preload" in settings, task manager reports 7.7 GB of ram usage. But Opus says that each of the instances is using only a measly 51 Mb per track, so it is wrong according to Task Manager by more than 7 GB. If I then unpurge all samples (hit the green button for each track) Task Manager reports that I am using just under 20 GB of RAM, but then Opus reports 10 GB usage for each track (itentical for each instrument!) which would be 50GB, and I only have 24GB ram. So it underestimates RAM when loading as "Never Preload" and overestimates it if you unpurge all instruments. Curiously, if I then hit the red button to purge all instruments, Opus then reports zero RAM, but task manager reports 8.5 GB of RAM, which is higher (by a bit) than if I load them with "Never Preload."

Obviously there is a discrepancy between Task Manager and Opus in reporting RAM usage.


----------



## Evans

ThomasS said:


> Obviously there is a discrepancy between Task Manager and Opus in reporting RAM usage.


Curtis Schweitzer found this to also be the case for CPU usage. It was much higher in Opus than Task Manager showed.


----------



## Macrawn

cqd said:


> Are you sure you're using it right?..
> You have to..
> Hit the pencil to edit the pattern..
> Hit the power button to turn it on..
> Change the note region to middle (I think.. well, all doesn't work..)
> 
> It's actually class, I must say..


I can get the animated stuff if I program it with the pencil just I can't get the presets to load other than the sustain ones. Could be user error though.


----------



## AndyP

It is super easy to build such legato runs with it. And I think for the fact that it has not yet received any fine tuning quite neat.


----------



## GhostRIde Media

I wonder if the ”user” function in orchesteator lets you easily share your arpeggios and blockbuster settings with other opus users!? Should be pretty straight forward. Maybe something to get a community started for those who actually likes the orchesteator?


----------



## szczaw

GhostRIde Media said:


> I wonder if the ”user” function in orchesteator lets you easily share your arpeggios and blockbuster settings with other opus users!? Should be pretty straight forward. Maybe something to get a community started for those who actually likes the orchesteator?


Yea, but get out of beta first.


----------



## LightWing

New member here referred by a friend. Nice site...lots of good info and intelligent folks (for a change). 

Just so you know, I was the guy on their FB page busting their stones that the Orchestrator "Key File Error" WAS NOT an iLok issue as they claimed. I was able to dig into its properties and found that OPUS didn't see it as installed and posted a pic proving that the INSTALLER was the problem not iLok. I was a SW developer for ALOT of years and know a CYA smokescreen excuse when I see it. Of course they DELETED the post and a bunch of others but a short time later a NEW INSTALLER was available which you could DL and run. Orchestrator worked fine after that.

Now either OPUS or Orchestrator or BOTH are buggy as all hell...white noise bursts that will kill your ear drums or just downright crashes of your DAW over and over again as has happened to me and ALOT of others plus it's a memory hog...they show Presets taking up 3-5GB of RAM yet Task Manager numbers are way less. God help you if you load an Ensemble Preset off a Hard Disk...go make a pot of coffee after you do. WTH? Now I know it's NOT a "resource issue" on my end...Dell T7910 PC, Win 10 Pro, DUAL 10 Core Processors, 128GB RAM, ALL SSD drives except a "Content" HD which is being upgraded to an SSD this week and a Black Lion 2X2 Revolution Interface running BOTH Studio One 5.2 and the latest version Pro Tools. My box and gear ARE NOT an issue.

Their SW was just rolled out too early...kinda like the old Microsoft credo..."We will ship all code before its time and get them on the upgrade.". IMO, this is a serious blow to the reputation of EW but they'll just brush it right off and move forward. What choice do they have?

All that said, I wonder what the Pres of the company is saying right now and who he is going to fire after all the hype and blustering these last few months. Just asking for a friend.

I look forward to further participation, gripes and grumblings here...in the meantime...consider this...

Patrick


----------



## AndyP

The orchestrator certainly has charm. You don't have to use the presets, that's nice for gimmicks. But what I like is that I can build something like Symphobia on steroids from OPUS without using any other tools.
OPUS just sounds like HOD and I like that. I find the use and some features not bad. The new player has quite good features and it makes it easier to use.

The controllers (cc1 and all others) are easy to reconfigure.
The solo violin is much better than I thought and it fits well with HOD in context. The cello is ok, nothing more. The harp is very nice.

What I do not like so far:

- The problems with the installation
- loading patches with multiple mics by default
- Purge activates the extra mics again if you have deactivated them
- bugs in the UI
- High memory requirements
- Midi import into the orchestrator doesn't seem to be possible (or I haven't figured it out yet). I would like to record something in the DAW and copy it from the pianroll to the grid
- not all pachtes are available for the keyswitches
- the orchestrator can't load all patches (string legato runs would be great)
- patches have been renamed which makes matching with HOD more difficult
- not all HOD patches are available!!!

The new ensemble winds are good, you should edit the sensivity to soften the legato, especially for the flute ensembles. Otherwise the legato is bumpy.

I find the update basically successful, even if I find it too expensive for an update. For those who did not have HO, they get a great product for their money.

I hope EW will fix the bugs promptly and I hope that I do not have to buy the OPUS player for my other libraries again. It must be included for free.
Another nice thing for owners of the Gold and Diamond versions would be if we could get OPUS for free for Gold as well. That would certainly use less resources and would be great for mobile use. Other manufacturers are doing something like this as well.

Edit: The patches load fast as hell for me, and thankfully I don't have the white noise problem.
Could it have something to do with the audio interface and drivers or the sample rate settings in the DAW?
I know this from my other computer with other libraries and when I updated the drivers for the interface the problem was gone.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

AndyP said:


> The orchestrator certainly has charm. You don't have to use the presets, that's nice for gimmicks. But what I like is that I can build something like Symphobia on steroids from OPUS without using any other tools.
> OPUS just sounds like HOD and I like that. I find the use and some features not bad. The new player has quite good features and it makes it easier to use.
> 
> The controllers (cc1 and all others) are easy to reconfigure.
> The solo violin is much better than I thought and it fits well with HOD in context. The cello is ok, nothing more. The harp is very nice.
> 
> What I do not like so far:
> 
> - The problems with the installation
> - loading patches with multiple mics by default
> - Purge activates the extra mics again if you have deactivated them
> - bugs in the UI
> - High memory requirements
> - Midi import into the orchestrator doesn't seem to be possible (or I haven't figured it out yet). I would like to record something in the DAW and copy it from the pianroll to the grid
> - not all pachtes are available for the keyswitches
> - the orchestrator can't load all patches (string legato runs would be great)
> - patches have been renamed which makes matching with HOD more difficult
> - not all HOD patches are available!!!
> 
> The new ensemble winds are good, you should edit the sensivity to soften the legato, especially for the flute ensembles. Otherwise the legato is bumpy.
> 
> I find the update basically successful, even if I find it too expensive for an update. For those who did not have HO, they get a great product for their money.
> 
> I hope EW will fix the bugs promptly and I hope that I do not have to buy the OPUS player for my other libraries again. It must be included for free.
> Another nice thing for owners of the Gold and Diamond versions would be if we could get OPUS for free for Gold as well. That would certainly use less resources and would be great for mobile use. Other manufacturers are doing something like this as well.


So worth it for you? Best overall package (let's say disregarding the price)?


----------



## Trash Panda

AndyP said:


> It is super easy to build such legato runs with it. And I think for the fact that it has not yet received any fine tuning quite neat.


!

274 pages in and we finally have our first real user demo.


----------



## AndyP

ALittleNightMusic said:


> So worth it for you? Best overall package (let's say disregarding the price)?


Disregarding the price, definitely a step forward. Fortunately, I have powerful computers, otherwise I can imagine that I would not be so positive.


----------



## AndyP

Trash Panda said:


> !
> 
> 274 pages in and we finally have our first real user demo.


And I wasn't even good at that.


----------



## LightWing

I THINK Opus is replacing PLAY. I could be wrong tho.


----------



## EgM

LightWing said:


> I THINK Opus is replacing PLAY. I could be wrong tho.



Except for Hollywood Orchestra perpetual licenses bought before Opus was released


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

AndyP said:


> Disregarding the price, definitely a step forward. Fortunately, I have powerful computers, otherwise I can imagine that I would not be so positive.


Step forward for HO or for orchestral libraries in general. Curious because as an example Nick said the new violins section have their best ever legato (but seems some folks don’t like the sound).


----------



## rnb_2

EgM said:


> Yeah, EW Installation Center will still say you have 7.2.1 but Orchestrator works after you manually install it. But for it to work, IC has to be closed


Ah, thanks - Orchestrator was working fine for me with 7.2.1, so there was no noticeable change after installation to let me know that it had installed properly, even though IC says it isn't. Guess I'll just ignore that message until 7.2.3 comes out...


----------



## dcoscina

rnb_2 said:


> Thanks - I did that, and just tried it again after a restart, and still IC says it sees 7.2.1 and wants to download again.


Same here


----------



## rnb_2

AndyP said:


> The orchestrator certainly has charm. You don't have to use the presets, that's nice for gimmicks. But what I like is that I can build something like Symphobia on steroids from OPUS without using any other tools.
> OPUS just sounds like HOD and I like that. I find the use and some features not bad. The new player has quite good features and it makes it easier to use.


Yes, it's definitely a BIG step up from TOC2's engine - just messing with which notes from a chord are played by each section can have a big impact. I knew when I bought TOC that the built-in presets didn't interest me that much - it was using the engine to build my own things that I was after, but I could never really get that engine to do what I wanted. This seems much closer to what I was hoping for.


AndyP said:


> What I do not like so far:
> 
> - loading patches with multiple mics by default
> - Purge activates the extra mics again if you have deactivated them
> - High memory requirements
> 
> I find the update basically successful, even if I find it too expensive for an update. For those who did not have HO, they get a great product for their money.
> 
> I hope EW will fix the bugs promptly and I hope that I do not have to buy the OPUS player for my other libraries again. It must be included for free.


One of the benefits of being on a 1-month CC sub is that I don't have the multiple mics problem, or the (related) RAM issue, because Gold only has one mic  Hopefully, they'll fix that before I switch to CCX, assuming that I do actually find myself able to work with Orchestrator as I hope to.

I believe that, once you have Opus, you have it - you won't need to buy it again as they convert things over.


----------



## rnb_2

dcoscina said:


> Same here


As you've probably discovered by now, this seems to be an error in IC, but if you weren't able to load Orchestrator previously, it should work now.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

I think we should keep going on this thread all present

Because in just over 300 more pages we wil have reached the number of pages to dollars to upgrade


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

The update 7.2.2 worked for me, so I've been taking Orchestrator for a spin. Still buggy, but overall, I really like it. For me personally, this is going to be a great tool for sparking inspiration and laying down some really nice beds. Whoever did the programming on these is brilliant, and every preset is fully tweakable and you can isolate any of the instruments accordingly.

Looking forward to learning how to export the MIDI, that will be the icing on the cake. 

As usual, EW support has been very responsive and helpful. Unlike their marketing team, they have great support IMO (never an issue in over 15 years).


----------



## alcorey

Jeremy Spencer said:


> The update 7.2.2 worked for me, so I've been taking Orchestrator for a spin. Still buggy, but overall, I really like it. For me personally, this is going to be a great tool for sparking inspiration and laying down some really nice beds. Whoever did the programming on these is brilliant, and every preset is fully tweakable and you can isolate any of the instruments accordingly.
> 
> Looking forward to learning how to export the MIDI, that will be the icing on the cake.
> 
> As usual, EW support has been very responsive and helpful. Unlike their marketing team, they have great support IMO (never an issue in over 15 years).


Does it show up as 7.2.2 "installed" in EWIC for you?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

alcorey said:


> Does it show up as 7.2.2 "installed" in EWIC for you?


I just checked...no, still shows as 7.2.1, even though I installed 7.2.2, weird. Iv'e sent the bug to support.


----------



## SlHarder

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Looking forward to learning how to export the MIDI,


Only way I've found so far was midi track in my daw with input set to Opus omni. Record. You get midi on up to 16 channels. Then used daw tool to split channels to individual tracks, then delete empty tracks if any. Then suss out instrument for each track.


----------



## alcorey

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I just checked...no, still shows as 7.2.1, even though I installed 7.2.2, weird. Iv'e sent the bug to support.


Yes, that's what I figured because that's what I got even after rebooting


----------



## topijokinen

Ive been testing Opus and just wanted to bring up it's amazing purge functionality. I think it works really nicely and the ability to automatically purge when I load a new instrument is really great and time saving. Although purging is also really easy in Opus too even if done separately every time. I couldn't find ability to auto purge in Kontakt. Apparently it used to be there, but not anymore? Otherwise also the engine has improved a lot from Play (automations, keyswitches, mixing). Don't know if that justifies the price (Im on CC Plus), but I think Opus is the best engine out there at the moment (although it has still bugs that I haven't yet noticed, but I think its quite normal with any new software at this point).


----------



## Allen Constantine

TimCox said:


> So far my experience is lots of sample playback issues and odd interface decisions so I'm unistalling for the time being!


Any particular "notes being cut off/dropouts while playback of an ostinato pattern? (classic way, not by using the orchestrator) ?


----------



## Macrawn

Well I like the sound of this and I like the orchestrator quite a lot but I'm still having a ton of problems. 

I had something open in the orchestrator saved and closed and when I reopened it, none of the insturments made sound anymore. 

Then in the middle of another try with the orchestrator, all the sounds suddenly stop working. No idea why. 

And I can only open a few of the orchestrator presets. 

I was also getting unexplainable lag on an instance of the orchestrator, but then it worked fine in another instance. I have plenty of ram to spare, and plenty of cpu power available too so I don't know what was causing the issue. 

The regular instruments seem to work fine for me (though there was one strange issue with dynamic layers not working, then working later on) 

This feels like an open beta honestly. Tech has at least been responsive otherwise I'd be very unhappy, so I'll write this off for the week and be civil.


----------



## Cormast

Anyone having some volume jump on violins_I_sus patches when releasing a chord at very low dynamics ?

EDIT : Every Old strings patches indeed. I need to re-assign the c11 expression to c1 modwheel to get dynamics work. But I get this anoying volume jump. Is it normal ? No problem with Solo Violin.


----------



## hauspe

OPUS is still not ready for release - so buggy. Tested only 1h so far but there are issues in the midi editor (the markers disappear when switching from 1 to 2 bars etc), legato issues, intonation legato related issues (e.g. woodwinds), sometimes samples are missing when playing for a few seconds, or samples are playing ff just for 2notes and then again pp - wow. Cool start so far. I am sure EW will solve this out one day or other. On the other hand the Orchestrator "can" be useful and inspiring if midi export would exist, just did not get it how to export a recorded event from the Orchestrator into my DAW (Cubase). Probably I am too stupid for this


----------



## José Herring

hauspe said:


> OPUS is still not ready for release - so buggy. Tested only 1h so far but there are issues in the midi editor (the markers disappear when switching from 1 to 2 bars etc), legato issues, intonation legato related issues (e.g. woodwinds), sometimes samples are missing when playing for a few seconds, or samples are playing ff just for 2notes and then again pp - wow. Cool start so far. I am sure EW will solve this out one day or other. On the other hand the Orchestrator "can" be useful and inspiring if midi export would exist, just did not get it how to export a recorded event from the Orchestrator into my DAW (Cubase). Probably I am too stupid for this


If you can try setting up another midi channel and making the input of that channel OPUS. Then arm the midi channel to record and let it record and see what happens.


----------



## AndyP

Cormast said:


> Anyone having some volume jump on violins_I_sus patches when releasing a chord at very low dynamics ?
> 
> EDIT : Every Old strings patches indeed. I need to re-assign the c11 expression to c1 modwheel to get dynamics work. But I get this anoying volume jump. Is it normal ? No problem with Solo Violin.


Are you changing Expression to a different controller or leaving it on CC1 as well?

When vibrato and expression are on cc1, there are sometimes strange jumps, especially since the vibrato doesn't always crossfade cleanly but is switched on rather quickly. The transitions are sometimes a bit drastic (like BBCSO - so on or off).


----------



## Trax

Imagine if they had released this in January.


----------



## feck

This is probably the most bloated new product thread I’ve seen on this forum. 275 pages of extremely sparse useful information. So here’s my contribution - it sounds great and is a much welcomed repurposing/update to the original library. Great work, EW.


----------



## hauspe

José Herring said:


> If you can try setting up another midi channel and making the input of that channel OPUS. Then arm the midi channel to record and let it record and see what happens.


Thanks for help, it does not work, no export of the ostinato available. I own TOC2 and there is a very simple midi export - just drag and drop the played secquence. Such a function would be very handy in terms of the workflow.

EDIT: I got in touch with EW, let's see what they will say.


----------



## AndyP

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Step forward for HO or for orchestral libraries in general. Curious because as an example Nick said the new violins section have their best ever legato (but seems some folks don’t like the sound).


That's more true for HO. Since it is my favorite library, the update was worth the price. HO just has the sound I like and it is incredibly dynamic, something I often miss in new libraries (BBCSO is such an example, I prefer HO in 90% of all cases).

The new violins would not have been necessary, I am very happy with the old ones. But it doesn't hurt and I haven't tried them out in detail yet.
I use the divisi more often than the other patches, unfortunately there is no divisi for the new violins.


----------



## plasticart

Lewis Emblack said:


> It is second down I think on the first tab in the options menu.


Ah thanks! It didn't work for me, still unable to load the majority of presets. I see that despite installing the update to 7.2.2 the EW Center still shows the 7.2.1, maybe that's part of the problem.


----------



## José Herring

AndyP said:


> That's more true for HO. Since it is my favorite library, the update was worth the price. HO just has the sound I like and it is incredibly dynamic, something I often miss in new libraries (BBCSO is such an example, I prefer HO in 90% of all cases).
> 
> The new violins would not have been necessary, I am very happy with the old ones. But it doesn't hurt and I haven't tried them out in detail yet.
> I use the divisi more often than the other patches, unfortunately there is no divisi for the new violins.


I hear you. I keep getting new libraries but when push comes to shove I keep on coming back to my littler EW HO. I think it's just familiarity more than anything though. But, that library can do things that others just can't.


----------



## szczaw

Same here. HO works as GAS extinguisher. I got two other complete orchestras but use almost entirely EW. What's the point of getting another one when I'll just keep reverting to HO ?


----------



## I like music

I'd love just to have the purge functionality in Play. Anyone written anything with the new woodwinds by any chance? They are those little thin instruments usually. The ones you use if you want to score Santa creeping through a house.


----------



## AndyP

Has anyone tried the Midi Tools yet? Beside the orchestrator there is also the possibility to activate further midi tools for each patch like an arpeggiator in the play section. Manual page 144. 
Pretty cool.


----------



## MauroPantin

Finishing up a very modest test template with HOOPUS, with limited articulations. Hopefully some time for writing a short cue this weekend, if the planets align.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

plasticart said:


> Ah thanks! It didn't work for me, still unable to load the majority of presets. I see that despite installing the update to 7.2.2 the EW Center still shows the 7.2.1, maybe that's part of the problem.


Ah sorry to hear - I did notice the update issue, but I checked the version that was installed and it did install, it is just that the Installation Centre isn't acknowledging it. It is an OPUS Support update though (Shows as EW PRODUCT INSTALLER 7.2.2 - 1.28GB), not actually OPUS, so I think that one was to sort the instruments installation issues folk are having.

Regarding the Orchestrator this is what they said (though not had to try it yet as not had chance to check or try it yet);

"locate the Hollywood Orchestrator folder on your computer and replace it with this one: https://s3.amazonaws.com/software_downloads/Products/HOA/HollywoodOrchestrator.zip

Open Opus > Settings (top-left) > Install Product and then navigate to the Instruments subfolder."

Hope that works for you!


----------



## zimm83

Will we be able to use all the other libraries in orchestrator ??? Or only this one ?
Really don't understand the compatibility with HOOPUS / Orchestrator. thanks.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

MauroPantin said:


> Finishing up a very modest test template with HOOPUS, with limited articulations. Hopefully some time for writing a short cue this weekend, if the planets align.


Does the template load okay? I saw a few pages back someone said they spent 2 days making one but that it just opened empty?


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Not had much chance to check (or look at the manual) over the last few days, but can you change the mic balances in Orchestrator? Just thinking if you want to use it as a bed and layer on you would need to be able to.


----------



## Haavard

I miss using the sustain pedal with Opus on e.g. strings. Does anyone know if it is possible to get it to work?


----------



## Nevermeister

Despite all the issues, i really like the ensembles that You can create with the orchestrator. Great tool.


----------



## cqd

Nevermeister said:


> Despite all the issues, i really like the ensembles that You can create with the orchestrator. Great tool.


It really is..I haven't even gotten around to checking the presets that came with it, it's so handy to put one together..


----------



## Johnny

Anyone feel like posting the 4 new instruments? (Solo'd) 2T Bones, 18 Violins Legato and Legato Woodwind ensembles? I bought HW strings and HW Brass at full price $1499.99 x 2, and Opus would cost over $1200.00 Canadian after tax for me without the cross grade. I'm on the fence if the 4 new instruments and reduction of HW articulations will be worth the $1200.00 Canadian. Thanks : )


----------



## Crossroads

José Herring said:


> I hear you. I keep getting new libraries but when push comes to shove I keep on coming back to my littler EW HO. I think it's just familiarity more than anything though. But, that library can do things that others just can't.


Would you say it's the Reason of sample libraries eh?😁😛


----------



## MauroPantin

Lewis Emblack said:


> Does the template load okay? I saw a few pages back someone said they spent 2 days making one but that it just opened empty?


I use track templates in Reaper, within a master template with the appropriate routing. They work fine for me so far.


----------



## Markrs

I had a play with Opus, but after I got the orchestrator license issue (great to see there is a fix), I have just decided to park playing with it and wait for bug fixes. In a way I want make a fairer judgement of it than I might do with all these issues.


----------



## Lazer42

I'm pretty surprised to be reading of so many problems. For me it's run perfectly to this point.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

MauroPantin said:


> I use track templates in Reaper, within a master template with the appropriate routing. They work fine for me so far.


Ah okay cool, that's what I want to do - I knew you used Reaper too which is why I wanted to ask.


----------



## Nuno

For me it is also running perfectly. And the new Opus engine and Orchestrator is really really good. Plus, it seems EW improved the scripting for many of the instruments, including the woodwinds and the solo violin is now very good ( I also now like the cello but not much as the violin) IMO.


----------



## Cormast

AndyP said:


> Are you changing Expression to a different controller or leaving it on CC1 as well?
> 
> When vibrato and expression are on cc1, there are sometimes strange jumps, especially since the vibrato doesn't always crossfade cleanly but is switched on rather quickly. The transitions are sometimes a bit drastic (like BBCSO - so on or off).


Vibrato and Expression where on C1 yes. It resolved most of the problem to assign it on another CC. Thank you for the answer ! But I still hear a little jump at the end. So old patches aren't scripted like the new ones ?


----------



## Evans

I took the plunge last night after giving Curtis's video a full watch. I'm a longtime fan of EWHO - I keep coming back to it, despite some frustrations, and the Orchestrator seems like it has a good use for me as a custom Symphobia-like "Stories" capability.

Waiting for my dang upgrade license (I've made a ticket and they said it can be 24 hours).


----------



## plasticart

Lewis Emblack said:


> Ah sorry to hear - I did notice the update issue, but I checked the version that was installed and it did install, it is just that the Installation Centre isn't acknowledging it. It is an OPUS Support update though (Shows as EW PRODUCT INSTALLER 7.2.2 - 1.28GB), not actually OPUS, so I think that one was to sort the instruments installation issues folk are having.
> 
> Regarding the Orchestrator this is what they said (though not had to try it yet as not had chance to check or try it yet);
> 
> "locate the Hollywood Orchestrator folder on your computer and replace it with this one: https://s3.amazonaws.com/software_downloads/Products/HOA/HollywoodOrchestrator.zip
> 
> Open Opus > Settings (top-left) > Install Product and then navigate to the Instruments subfolder."
> 
> Hope that works for you!


Just tried this workaround but still nothing, thanks fortaking the time tho, much appreciated!

I have to add that while playing with a percussion preset, a loud glitch happened in the right speaker. Luckily I had the Nugen protect plugin running, which avoided any harm to ears/monitors.

I think I'll politely wait until everything is fixed.


----------



## Cormast

Cormast said:


> Vibrato and Expression where on C1 yes. It resolved most of the problem to assign it on another CC. Thank you for the answer ! But I still hear a little jump at the end. So old patches aren't scripted like the new ones ?


I don't have any of the problem when I load the same patch from orchestrator. Really strange.


----------



## Stuart Honeyman

Anybody managed to get the Midi data frrom the orchestrator in Reaper?

EDIT: Just found the record mode 'Record: output (midi)

Yay!


----------



## larry777

In the manual page 31 / 2.4.5 performance page for Hollywood orchestrator my version has :
BROWSE / PLAY / MIX but EDIT / DESIGN / PUBLISH doesn't show, what about you, can you see those tabs?


----------



## Evans

Example of Orchestrator midi routing for Cubase:


----------



## Macrawn

Evans said:


> Example of Orchestrator midi routing for Cubase:



Cool thanks for sharing that. Hopefully they put in a feature like The Orchestra has that allows you to just record the midi then drag and drop it out right inside the program.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Johnny said:


> Anyone feel like posting the 4 new instruments? (Solo'd) 2T Bones, 18 Violins Legato and Legato Woodwind ensembles? I bought HW strings and HW Brass at full price $1499.99 x 2, and Opus would cost over $1200.00 Canadian after tax for me without the cross grade. I'm on the fence if the 4 new instruments and reduction of HW articulations will be worth the $1200.00 Canadian. Thanks : )


IMO, absolutely not. For someone who doesn’t own any of the HO series, maybe. That’s a lot of $$ after the exchange rate. Plus, the new instruments are “ok”, but not worth the price of admission.

if I were you, I’d try CC for a month and decide. Small price to pay for a full “demo”. I really like Opus and Orchestor, but luckily I’m already in a good CC deal from years ago. If the upgrade for Diamond ever goes on sale for $300-ish, I’ll buy it outright.


----------



## Cormast

I really don't get why a single patch without orchestrator doesn't react the same way in dynamics as loaded in the orchestrator with the same exact settings. (viloin I sus max or flute 1 sus max). Meaning using only CC1 to control vibrato and dynamics. In orchestrator, no volume jump at the end, I can replace the default LITE patch with a MAX patch in it and it behaves as expected.

But if I don't load orchestrator, just the patch by itself, noway to make it works as in orchestrator. I don't want to use orchestrator for now, patches by themselves are fine. But can't figure out how to use them without this strange volume jump at low dynamics when expression and vibrato are linked to cc1. At least for strings and woodwinds. In orchestrator it works, so there should be a way to resolve this.


----------



## Kabraxis

I'm getting really sluggish response wit OPUS in Reaper unless I "Disable saving full plug-in state". Does anyone having that? Any suggestions to fix?


----------



## Toecutter

Johnny said:


> Anyone feel like posting the 4 new instruments? (Solo'd) 2T Bones, 18 Violins Legato and Legato Woodwind ensembles? I bought HW strings and HW Brass at full price $1499.99 x 2, and Opus would cost over $1200.00 Canadian after tax for me without the cross grade. I'm on the fence if the 4 new instruments and reduction of HW articulations will be worth the $1200.00 Canadian. Thanks : )


I got a month of CC and the new content is minimal, too similar and in some cases (strings) even worse than the original HO imo. If I were you i'd put my $ somewhere else. New Opus player is promising but currently very buggy and unoptimized. You can read many opinions here https://vi-control.net/community/threads/hoopus-new-content-500-worthy-yae-or-nay.108620/


----------



## eromain

BronzeOrbiter said:


> Works now! Thank you  Probably should have just waited for official release but oh well hasn't done any harm yet.


hi - do you have the mac version of this by any chance??


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Evans said:


> Example of Orchestrator midi routing for Cubase:



Yes, I've been trying this exact method. It works, but it's a PITA. I hope they have a feature like Sonokinetic, where you can simply drag and drop the MIDI into your DAW.


----------



## Evans

I want to figure out a tangled web of routing so that I can have Orchestrator MIDI out providing to multiple channels for multiple plugins in realtime. With low latency. And a slice of cake.

I'd give it a try, except, you know, the whole thing about how I still don't have my upgrade licenses.


----------



## tmarko

Has anyone managed to solve the white noise occurrences?


----------



## dzilizzi

tmarko said:


> Has anyone managed to solve the white noise occurrences?


I thought it was missing sample files. Someone said they moved the missing files to where they were supposed to be and it fixed the problem.


----------



## Wabashprof

tmarko said:


> Has anyone managed to solve the white noise occurrences?


Not that I know of. Quitting Opus and restarting usually solves it for me, but I can't replicate a set of actions that trigger the blast of noise. Sometimes I can work with Orchestrator for an hour, loading various presets and it's fine ... other times I get the blast after one preset load. I'm finding myself reaching for the volume knob before pressing a key on my keyboard to avoid upsetting the neighbors!


----------



## Evans

Anyone know if EastWest fulfills licenses over the weekend? I'm concerned that my Thursday upgrade purchase (just after 5:00 PM Pacific) may not be fulfilled until Monday, since Support said this "usually" occurs within 24 hours.

They just can't make it easy.


----------



## tmarko

I did check to make sure all the files were in the right place, but the problem still occurs. As wabashprof said, it works fine for a while then I get blasted. Other times it works fine and I can't find any cause. Oh well, hopefully in the update...


----------



## Evans

Tongue-in-cheek title, but here's someone messing around with the Orchestrator for a while:


----------



## ThomasS

Evans said:


> Example of Orchestrator midi routing for Cubase:



Thank you for posting this! It works perfectly and is exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Evans said:


> Tongue-in-cheek title, but here's someone messing around with the Orchestrator for a while:



That's pretty great.


----------



## Markrs

Evans said:


> Tongue-in-cheek title, but here's someone messing around with the Orchestrator for a while:



Thanks for the heads up on this, I have now subscribed to his YouTube channel.


----------



## hauspe

Evans said:


> Example of Orchestrator midi routing for Cubase:



Thank you @Evans for this workaround, at least a way how to export midi but less user friendly than other plugins do. Hopefully EW will add a feature which makes it easier in future.


----------



## RogiervG

Ok, I am out.. i dislike it soundwise (sound old school sample scripting, nothing improved from what i heard thusfar).proof me wrong, EW, with some nice demo songs, as it is out of the box, and patch walktroughs..
And it's too high priced for an upgrade. Going to buy something else.


----------



## dcoscina

Meh, I cannot really use this as is. I like OPUS for its crispness and GUI better than PLAY but Orchestrator isn't my thang and too much issues with loading/content not found msgs...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

RogiervG said:


> Ok, I am out.. i dislike it soundwise (sound old school sample scripting, nothing improved from what i heard thusfar).proof me wrong, EW, with some nice demo songs, as it is out of the box, and patch walktroughs..
> And it's too high priced for an upgrade. Going to buy something else.


Hollywood Orchestra is what it is. You either like the sound, or don’t. Nothing new here in that regard. I’m one of those guys that thinks Hollywood Strings are the best out there, and have been using them from day one. Tit for tat.


----------



## SlHarder

This message popped up on FB EastWest a couple of hours ago. FWIW

EastWest Sounds
Hello again everyone still on the thread. Thank you for your patience as we continue to roll out this massive undertaking. If you are someone who is a ComposerCloud X user, still getting white noise issues on the libraries, would you please do us a favor and e-mail our head of support at [email protected] and include your soundsonline.com account e-mail and your iLok User ID
Thanks!


----------



## Evans

*Step 1:* Don't finish handing out upgrade licenses until the weekend hits.
*Step 2: *Users experience issues that they must self-service over the weekend.
*Step 3: *Come in to work on Monday.
*Step 4:* Delete all weekend cases.

(I'm just being dramatic because I'm annoyed that I've waited almost a full day now for my license, and we're now heading into the weekend.)


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Evans said:


> *Step 1:* Don't finish handing out upgrade licenses until the weekend hits.
> *Step 2: *Users experience issues that they must self-service over the weekend.
> *Step 3: *Come in to work on Monday.
> *Step 4:* Delete all weekend cases.
> 
> (I'm just being dramatic because I'm annoyed that I've waited almost a full day now for my license, and we're now heading into the weekend.)


I just purchased the Diamond upgrade and am probably in the same boat as you. The cons of waiting - but the pros are hopefully some of the early issues are worked out.

Edit: Received the license - took about an hour after purchase.


----------



## Macrawn

Alright, I downloaded the latest update 7.2.3 and the problems I was having with the orchestrator seem resolved.

Really enjoying the library.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I just calculated my total cost of Opus - $316 for HOD 8 months ago + $495 for the upgrade. So I've paid a whole $16 more than a new Opus license right now - plus have had HOD for 8 months. So if you consider $800 for a deeply sampled library with all sections plus harp plus solo cello and violin reasonable (and it is MORE than reasonable given the market and depth of sampling here), the price is then fair - not outlandish. If you bought HOD years ago for more than $316, you've also been able to use it for that time (before Opus even existed). So what are people complaining about price-wise?


----------



## cqd

Is there updated versions of opus?..
I looked at updating it but it looked like it was just the installer..

Is your opus something other than 1.0.0?


----------



## rnb_2

7.2.3 took care of the issue with IC not seeing the 7.2.2 update for me.


----------



## Macrawn

cqd said:


> Is there updated versions of opus?..
> I looked at updating it but it looked like it was just the installer..
> 
> Is your opus something other than 1.0.0?


No it's just the installer that got updated and fixed stuff. I think Opus is still 1.0.0.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Another Orchestrator-focused walkthrough by our friend Bill. Sounds really good - and useful for tearing apart and seeing how they're constructed.


----------



## Macrawn

Maybe the sudden white noise blasting isn't fixed. Put a brick wall limiter on your master.


----------



## SlHarder

Eastwest just sent me a link to an updated Opus version to test for white noise solution. I'll get a chance to test it later tonight. 

Support has seemed responsive to this issue.

Fwiw.


----------



## Johnny

Toecutter said:


> I got a month of CC and the new content is minimal, too similar and in some cases (strings) even worse than the original HO imo. If I were you i'd put my $ somewhere else. New Opus player is promising but currently very buggy and unoptimized. You can read many opinions here https://vi-control.net/community/threads/hoopus-new-content-500-worthy-yae-or-nay.108620/


Thank you! That's really good to know!


----------



## Johnny

Jeremy Spencer said:


> IMO, absolutely not. For someone who doesn’t own any of the HO series, maybe. That’s a lot of $$ after the exchange rate. Plus, the new instruments are “ok”, but not worth the price of admission.
> 
> if I were you, I’d try CC for a month and decide. Small price to pay for a full “demo”. I really like Opus and Orchestor, but luckily I’m already in a good CC deal from years ago. If the upgrade for Diamond ever goes on sale for $300-ish, I’ll buy it outright.


Ok, awesome! Great to know! Yeah, I wasn't sure what I'm missing from Opus and if it is actually worth the $1000.00 upgrade... I really like HW Strings and HW Brass Diamond, but I already own them... So maybe I'll augment them with more practical choices like Vista Strings and CS Woodwinds


----------



## Johnny

SlHarder said:


> Eastwest just sent me a link to an updated Opus version to test for white noise solution. I'll get a chance to test it later tonight.
> 
> Support has seemed responsive to this issue.
> 
> Fwiw.


My buddy just bought Opus yesterday and is bashing his head out on the white noise as well... That's brutal and I am so sorry to hear... I couldn't even imagine buying Damage 2 and loading it in Kontakt being so excited to take it for a spin and then... White noise...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> So what are people complaining about price-wise?


For those who owned the entire HOD library, all you're really getting is a few new patches, Opus player and Orchestrator. Just my 2 cents, but I don't feel that's worth $495 USD and another 2TB SSD.

I love Opus so far, but it would need to be a lot less that $495 for me to upgrade. For now, I'm happy with my CCX subscription of $15 a month.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Jeremy Spencer said:


> For those who owned the entire HOD library, all you're really getting is a few new patches, Opus player and Orchestrator. Just my 2 cents, but I don't feel that's worth $495 USD and another 2TB SSD.
> 
> I love Opus so far, but it would need to be a lot less that $495 for me to upgrade. For now, I'm happy with my CCX subscription of $15 a month.


But my point is even as an HOD owner, I’ve paid about the same as a new user did - and $800 for the full OPUS package is I think very fair. I suppose if you had HOD, the solo instruments, and you paid a lot more in total, then maybe the math wouldn’t quite work in your favor - though that’s usually the case for any upgrade (like Berlin WW to Revive - I definitely ended up paying more than a new user would have...but I also got to use BWW for years before them).


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Previously, I didn't think the mics were much different or drastically changed the tone, but I have to say the Moods are really useful and really change up the tonality of the orchestra.


----------



## Macrawn

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Previously, I didn't think the mics were much different or changed the tone, but I have to say the Moods are really useful and really change up the tonality of the orchestra.


I agree about the moods. Very nice to have.


----------



## Trash Panda

ALittleNightMusic said:


> But my point is even as an HOD owner, I’ve paid about the same as a new user did - and $800 for the full OPUS package is I think very fair. I suppose if you had HOD, the solo instruments, and you paid a lot more in total, then maybe the math wouldn’t quite work in your favor - though that’s usually the case for any upgrade (like Berlin WW to Revive - I definitely ended up paying more than a new user would have...but I also got to use BWW for years before them).


Your point isn’t really valid, because for most people, the best deal available for HWOD was $386. Add in another $495 for the upgrade and you’re nearly $100 higher than a new user buying it. If you also purchased the solo instruments, add another $200 or so on top of the $386. It’s not a good deal for existing users. Period.


----------



## Toecutter

Johnny said:


> My buddy just bought Opus yesterday and is bashing his head out on the white noise as well... That's brutal and I am so sorry to hear... I couldn't even imagine buying Damage 2 and loading it in Kontakt being so excited to take it for a spin and then... White noise...


Yep it almost ripped my eardrums out of my head, not cool. That is because of missing samples, there's a post somewhere here explaining how to fix it. I don't remember what I had to do but involved moving folders that got installed in the wrong place. EW is aware, tell your buddy to contact support, they can help.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I’ve paid about the same as a new user did - and $800 for the full OPUS package is I think very fair.


Lol! I think you just answered your own question. So is it fair that you paid the same (or more) as a new customer?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Trash Panda said:


> Your point isn’t really valid, because for most people, the best deal available for HWOD was $386. Add in another $495 for the upgrade and you’re nearly $100 higher than a new user buying it. If you also purchased the solo instruments, add another $200 or so on top of the $386. It’s not a good deal for existing users. Period.


Sure - your total expenditure was more, but you also had the library (HOD) before new users had OPUS...if you didn't use it, how is that EW's fault? Which sample company gives early adopters upgrades so that their total expenditure is LESS than new users? As I mentioned, with Berlin Woodwinds Revive crossgrade for example, I have definitely paid more for BWW total than a new customer would right now...but I've also had the samples (at least legacy BWW) for much longer. That's the tradeoff I would expect every time.



Jeremy Spencer said:


> Lol! I think you just answered your own question. So is it fair that you paid the same (or more) as a new customer?


See above. How is that not fair? You expect owners of HOD to not only be able to use HOD for months or years longer than new OPUS users, but also then pay less in total than new OPUS users? How does that make any sense?


----------



## EgM

The problem is that the IC is trying to install "Product support 7.2.3" and can't close IC to install it, permissions maybe?

Installation Center needs an update to kill IC to install it, restart and register it.

I installed "EW Product Installer 7.2.3.pkg" manually from the "Downloads" folder on Mac/Mojave
Now IC registers all software as current.


----------



## jcrosby

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Sure - your total expenditure was more, but you also had the library (HOD) before new users had OPUS...if you didn't use it, how is that EW's fault? Which sample company gives early adopters upgrades so that their total expenditure is LESS than new users? As I mentioned, with Berlin Woodwinds Revive crossgrade for example, I have definitely paid more for BWW total than a new customer would right now...but I've also had the samples (at least legacy BWW) for much longer. That's the tradeoff I would expect every time.
> 
> 
> See above. How is that not fair? You expect owners of HOD to not only be able to use HOD for months or years longer than new OPUS users, but also then pay less in total than new OPUS users? How does that make any sense?


This is the way it's always been... Things cost more as an initial release and come down over the years after production and development costs are recouped. (For the most part at least...) 

Symphobia 1 was $1500 when 1st released. The original version of EWSO was something like 7k on release? And the original entire VSL Cube (?) was more or less the cost of an economy car at the time it was 1st available. 

People who are fairly new to all of this really don't understand just how cheap things are compared to what they cost just a decade ago... Pre-2010 you'd never get an entire all-around-orchestral ensemble library for the cost of Nucleus, BBCSO core, HOG/HOD, etc...


----------



## M4T

ThomasS said:


> Thank you for posting this! It works perfectly and is exactly what I was looking for.





hauspe said:


> Thank you @Evans for this workaround, at least a way how to export midi but less user friendly than other plugins do. Hopefully EW will add a feature which makes it easier in future.





ThomasS said:


> Thank you for posting this! It works perfectly and is exactly what I was looking for.


Actually I am the one who published this yesterday after I spent 2 days waiting for EW to instruct us. Finally I had to work it out myself  I made this quick and dirty tuto to help ! Glad it did.


----------



## chocobitz825

jcrosby said:


> This is the way it's always been... Things cost more as an initial release and come down over the years after production and development costs are recouped. (For the most part at least...)
> 
> Symphobia 1 was $1500 when 1st released. The original version of EWSO was something like 7k on release? And the original entire VSL Cube (?) was more or less the cost of an economy car at the time it was 1st available.
> 
> People who are fairly new to all of this really don't understand just how cheap things are compared to what they cost just a decade ago... Pre-2010 you'd never get an entire all-around-orchestral ensemble library for the cost of Nucleus, BBCSO core, HOG/HOD, etc...


ugh...i remember spending about $1000+ on one EW library back in the day....not to say we’re spoiled now...but damn things have changed.


----------



## jbuhler

chocobitz825 said:


> ugh...i remember spending about $1000+ on one EW library back in the day....not to say we’re spoiled now...but damn things have changed.


Yup. No regrets, but yes buying libraries is far less agonizing these days.


----------



## Markrs

This video address a couple of things Lorenzo said in his earlier video, it is also a good demo of some of the scripting improvements in Opus.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Orchestrator is a lot of fun - and very inspiring. I hope they add more Score presets over time - those are really great and I do think are fun to unravel.

Must say though that the CPU usage is very high - almost to the point of unusable and I'm on a very high end Mac. Even with a single Keyswitch patch. Setting up my expression maps right now - going to take a while...


----------



## Dex

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Sure - your total expenditure was more, but you also had the library (HOD) before new users had OPUS...if you didn't use it, how is that EW's fault? Which sample company gives early adopters upgrades so that their total expenditure is LESS than new users? As I mentioned, with Berlin Woodwinds Revive crossgrade for example, I have definitely paid more for BWW total than a new customer would right now...but I've also had the samples (at least legacy BWW) for much longer. That's the tradeoff I would expect every time.
> 
> 
> See above. How is that not fair? You expect owners of HOD to not only be able to use HOD for months or years longer than new OPUS users, but also then pay less in total than new OPUS users? How does that make any sense?


I seem to remember EW suggesting people upgrade their HO gold to HO diamond to get the best pricing on the best version of opus just a few months ago. For most people the best upgrade price from HO gold to diamond was over $300, and as it turns out the price to upgrade from HO gold to opus diamond is only $100 more than the price to upgrade from HO diamond to opus diamond.

_Technically_ nothing they said was a lie, but you can see how what they said was _extremely_ misleading.


----------



## mcalis

Jeremy Spencer said:


> For those who owned the entire HOD library, all you're really getting is a few new patches


Not so. Many of the legatos are much improved. You may not notice right away but it becomes apparent when A/B'ing with Play. Attacks are better, transitions are better, releases are better. In general the x-fades on sustains are smoother and the releases are now timed and mixed in in such a way that you can play quite nice little melodies on just sustain patches, try it on flute or piccolo for example and compare to Play.

None of these are extremely noticeable improvements and because the library hasn't changed in timbre they are not immediately apparent, but they are there.

If you're just interested in the new samples instruments and nothing else, I would look elsewhere. They're nice to have, but they're far from revolutionary. I kind of went into it with that mentality and was a bit disappointed, but now that I've sat with it longer I'm appreciating the improvements to the existing content a lot more.


----------



## ThomasS

M4T said:


> Actually I am the one who published this yesterday after I spent 2 days waiting for EW to instruct us. Finally I had to work it out myself  I made this quick and dirty tuto to help ! Glad it did.



Thank you M4T! You really helped and I have no idea how you figured this out so fast, but it was much appreciated.


----------



## MauroPantin

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned: The new recordings have an additional mic position. There's Close-Mid-Main-Srnd (with a Vintage) option as all others, and a new "Stage" one. Haven't explored it yet, but according to the manual they are off-axis close mics.


----------



## shropshirelad

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Orchestrator is a lot of fun - and very inspiring. I hope they add more Score presets over time - those are really great and I do think are fun to unravel.
> 
> Must say though that the CPU usage is very high - almost to the point of unusable and I'm on a very high end Mac. Even with a single Keyswitch patch. Setting up my expression maps right now - going to take a while...


I still can't get this working. Does anyone know when the Mac iLok issue will be fixed? 

Apologies if this has been answered somewhere down the line but my Father died on Monday and I don't have the time or desire to trawl the forum at the moment.


----------



## gst98

shropshirelad said:


> I still can't get this working. Does anyone know when the Mac iLok issue will be fixed?
> 
> Apologies if this has been answered somewhere down the line but my Father died on Monday and I don't have the time or desire to trawl the forum at the moment.


yeah the update was 2 days ago. just update to the newest version


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

Still getting white noise... It's really odd because sometimes I load up a patch and no issues, but at others I will load up the exact same patch and PFFFFFFFFFFFF.... Samples seem to be in right places in folders. Also orchestrator reports some brass patches missing still. Anyone got a fix for these issues?


----------



## AndyP

Can someone check if the tuba in the KS patch with the articulation Leg Slur MAX also plays with a false attack and without legato? The single patch in the Legato folder is ok, but not in the KS patch.


----------



## AndyP

And did anyone get the arpeggiator to work?
It refuses to work for me.


----------



## Johnny

Toecutter said:


> Yep it almost ripped my eardrums out of my head, not cool. That is because of missing samples, there's a post somewhere here explaining how to fix it. I don't remember what I had to do but involved moving folders that got installed in the wrong place. EW is aware, tell your buddy to contact support, they can help.


K, will do! Thanks!


----------



## TCMQL1

mcalis said:


> Not so. Many of the legatos are much improved. You may not notice right away but it becomes apparent when A/B'ing with Play. Attacks are better, transitions are better, releases are better. In general the x-fades on sustains are smoother and the releases are now timed and mixed in in such a way that you can play quite nice little melodies on just sustain patches, try it on flute or piccolo for example and compare to Play.
> 
> None of these are extremely noticeable improvements and because the library hasn't changed in timbre they are not immediately apparent, but they are there.
> 
> If you're just interested in the new samples instruments and nothing else, I would look elsewhere. They're nice to have, but they're far from revolutionary. I kind of went into it with that mentality and was a bit disappointed, but now that I've sat with it longer I'm appreciating the improvements to the existing content a lot more.


+1!

They really have improved things a lot. If you A/B PLAY and OPUS with many of HO's old problem areas the difference is immediately obvious. There even seems to be some improvements in many places I figured they wouldn't have bothered because I thought they were great already, like the 6 french horns or the strings.

It's clear they put a lot of effort in in this regard, and have tried to improve things as best they can with the samples they had. Some of the original samples are sloppy in places, which probably limits what can be done with scripting alone (so don't expect HWW to now be as clean as a VSL or a CSW!), but overall I'm quite happy with the improvements.

As you say though, the samples are the same, so if anyone's issue with any part of HO is tonal not much is going to change by switching to OPUS.


----------



## Markrs

I've downloaded the update, so I now have Orchestrator, though I now have the white noise issue. If I go to the Winds some patches don't work. Clearly some instruments have not been installed in the right place.

I could try and debug it, as I think there is a fix somewhere. But these levels of bugs are not minor, and you would really expect better. For now, I will probably continue to wait for a proper fix for these issues before trying to use HO Opus.


----------



## ookami

Finally we also got our second new SSD which we bought for this, and have everything installed now.
I have to say, I was quite impressed when playing the first Chords with some Ensemble Patches,... 
On our Ryzen 3950X Opus runs smoothly even with several Patches no CPU problems till now.

Programming own Movement into the Ostinato "PianoRoll" gets us very interesting Resultsso far, I am pretty happy with OPUS in general, I think it is very powerful, and I am curious if a Tool like the Orchestrator is having an impact in how we work as Media Composers.


----------



## Cormast

New strange problem : Can't desactivate surround mics. I do it, and they keep switching on again when using key switching.

Edit : I had to move surround mics samples somewhere else to stop Opus from accessing them.


----------



## gamma-ut

AndyP said:


> And did anyone get the arpeggiator to work?
> It refuses to work for me.


The DAW transport needs to be engaged. I found the arp's also a little buggy in that sometimes it doesn't engage when the transport is stopped and then restarted - though the retrigger button and changing the direction control seems to kick it into life (on my system at least).


----------



## gamma-ut

AndyP said:


> Can someone check if the tuba in the KS patch with the articulation Leg Slur MAX also plays with a false attack and without legato? The single patch in the Legato folder is ok, but not in the KS patch.


Just checked it. It's borked here too. I'm assuming you're getting what sounds like a reverse effect on legato transitions.


----------



## hauspe

BronzeOrbiter said:


> Still getting white noise... It's really odd because sometimes I load up a patch and no issues, but at others I will load up the exact same patch and PFFFFFFFFFFFF.... Samples seem to be in right places in folders. Also orchestrator reports some brass patches missing still. Anyone got a fix for these issues?


Same here but only when playing chords, playing a single note seems to be ok so far....


----------



## FKVStudio

One question, how much disk space does Opus occupy? Does the entire library fit on a 1 TB SSD? (Let's take into account the reduction that is caused in Windows - 931 GB)


----------



## ookami

FKVStudio said:


> One question, how much disk space does Opus occupy? Does the entire library fit on a 1 TB SSD? (Let's take into account the reduction that is caused in Windows - 931 GB)


The Thing is that Opus will be installed in the same directory as the Diamond or Gold Sections sit, so we had to move Strings Diamond to another Drive to have enough space on the two 1TB SSDs


----------



## FKVStudio

In my case it would be a new user. I don't have any of the above libraries. Only Opus.


----------



## ookami

FKVStudio said:


> In my case it would be a new user. I don't have any of the above libraries. Only Opus.


I think Opus is based on the Hollywood Orchestra, so I think You have to install either of them (Gold or Diamond) too, I am afraid,...


----------



## dcoscina

Orchestrator seems to work better after I left it alone for a couple days.. weird. Did they program HAL9000 into OPUS? Still getting some WW loading issues no matter how many times I re-download and install... but it's a little better than on Thursday.


----------



## AndyP

gamma-ut said:


> The DAW transport needs to be engaged. I found the arp's also a little buggy in that sometimes it doesn't engage when the transport is stopped and then restarted - though the retrigger button and changing the direction control seems to kick it into life (on my system at least).


Were do I find this option? DAW transport?


----------



## ookami

AndyP said:


> Were do I find this option? DAW transport?


I think @gamma-ut meaned You have the DAW Transport Running so have the DAW on Play so it starts engaging the ARP


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

mcalis said:


> Not so. Many of the legatos are much improved. You may not notice right away but it becomes apparent when A/B'ing with Play. Attacks are better, transitions are better, releases are better. In general the x-fades on sustains are smoother and the releases are now timed and mixed in in such a way that you can play quite nice little melodies on just sustain patches, try it on flute or piccolo for example and compare to Play.
> 
> None of these are extremely noticeable improvements and because the library hasn't changed in timbre they are not immediately apparent, but they are there.
> 
> If you're just interested in the new samples instruments and nothing else, I would look elsewhere. They're nice to have, but they're far from revolutionary. I kind of went into it with that mentality and was a bit disappointed, but now that I've sat with it longer I'm appreciating the improvements to the existing content a lot more.


Good point, I retract my statement. I also only have the CCX version, so can’t compare accurately with my HOD version.


----------



## gamma-ut

AndyP said:


> Were do I find this option? DAW transport?


I just mean the DAW timeline has to be running: the arp doesn't seem to function when the DAW is stopped.


----------



## cqd

In pro tools it works stopped anyway..


----------



## Trash Panda

AndyP said:


> Were do I find this option? DAW transport?


He means the playback button in your DAW has to be turned on.


----------



## FKVStudio

ookami said:


> I think Opus is based on the Hollywood Orchestra, so I think You have to install either of them (Gold or Diamond) too, I am afraid,...


Really? So I need a 2 tb ssd to work with Opus?


----------



## ookami

FKVStudio said:


> Really? So I need a 2 tb ssd to work with Opus?


I just checked and we have also the EastWest QL Platinum on the first 1TB SSD so with only the Diamond and the Opus You should have enough Space on One TB SSD, sorry for the confusing Statement


----------



## FKVStudio

ookami said:


> I just checked and we have also the EastWest QL Platinum on the first 1TB SSD so with only the Diamond and the Opus You should have enough Space on One TB SSD, sorry for the confusing Statement


Ok, that sounds better. Thank you.

A doubt for those who are trying it. Can it work well with an External SSD connected via USB 3.1 or is an internal SSD more recommended?


----------



## Evans

FKVStudio said:


> Ok, that sounds better. Thank you.
> 
> A doubt for those who are trying it. Can it work well with an External SSD connected via USB 3.1 or is an internal SSD more recommended?


I've had EWHO Diamond running on an external SSD and have had no issues at all. Even the worst loading time for a single patch was well under ten seconds, with most loading between 1-3 seconds. And yes, I did time this on a couple of occasions.


----------



## ookami

Evans said:


> I've had EWHO Diamond running on an external SSD and have had no issues at all. Even the worst loading time for a single patch was well under ten seconds, with most loading between 1-3 seconds. And yes, I did time this on a couple of occasions.


Ok good to know,... and also Opus loads much much faster then Play,


----------



## AndyP

gamma-ut said:


> I just mean the DAW timeline has to be running: the arp doesn't seem to function when the DAW is stopped.


Ah ok. yes, I had already figured that out. Some patches load in purge mode, others don't, that's inconsistent too. Regardless, the arpeggiator remains largely useless as it is very sloppy.
Too bad the orchstrator can't access the divisi patches. But midi export works fine in Cubase and so the orchestrator ensembles can be assigned in new tracks. 
The other midi tools like Glide, Humanizer and Midi Echo I find good and more intuitively adjustable than the derivatives in cubase. Glide is fun, and something completely new to me..

Meanwhile, I get along better and can justify the update for me.


----------



## Trash Panda

FKVStudio said:


> Ok, that sounds better. Thank you.
> 
> A doubt for those who are trying it. Can it work well with an External SSD connected via USB 3.1 or is an internal SSD more recommended?


I run HWOD on a 7200 rpm HDD on my main rig and HWOG off an SDX card on my Surface Book. Both load patches somewhere in between the speed of Kontakt instruments and the much slower Spitfire Player.


----------



## Nevermeister

Cormast said:


> New strange problem : Can't desactivate surround mics. I do it, and they keep switching on again when using key switching.
> 
> Edit : I had to move surround mics samples somewhere else to stop Opus from accessing them.


I have the same problem with my close mics. How/Where did you move the samples? Thank you.


----------



## Toecutter

Evans said:


> I've had EWHO Diamond running on an external SSD and have had no issues at all. Even the worst loading time for a single patch was well under ten seconds, with most loading between 1-3 seconds. And yes, I did time this on a couple of occasions.


What external SSD are you using? I may have to move this monster to an external drive and was a bit worried about performane.


----------



## ookami

Ok now I have Issues too, when loading up a saved Project, with Ensemble Patches in Opus Orchestrator, the Performance Information is still there but the Instruments themself are missing


----------



## Dex

mcalis said:


> Not so. Many of the legatos are much improved. You may not notice right away but it becomes apparent when A/B'ing with Play. Attacks are better, transitions are better, releases are better. In general the x-fades on sustains are smoother and the releases are now timed and mixed in in such a way that you can play quite nice little melodies on just sustain patches, try it on flute or piccolo for example and compare to Play.
> 
> None of these are extremely noticeable improvements and because the library hasn't changed in timbre they are not immediately apparent, but they are there.
> 
> If you're just interested in the new samples instruments and nothing else, I would look elsewhere. They're nice to have, but they're far from revolutionary. I kind of went into it with that mentality and was a bit disappointed, but now that I've sat with it longer I'm appreciating the improvements to the existing content a lot more.


Could you post an example or two (audio or video) for those of us who haven't upgraded?


----------



## Evans

Toecutter said:


> What external SSD are you using? I may have to move this monster to an external drive and was a bit worried about performane.


I've got several last gen SanDisk external SSDs (2 TB), some of them over USB-C and some USB 3.1. They're all plenty fast enough. That is, after doing a Batch Resave on Kontakt libraries, I've never really felt like I was sitting around waiting for much to load. A rare exception would be VSL Synchron pianos, which run about ten seconds.


----------



## Toecutter

Evans said:


> I've got several last gen SanDisk external SSDs (2 TB), some of them over USB-C and some USB 3.1. They're all plenty fast enough. That is, after doing a Batch Resave on Kontakt libraries, I've never really felt like I was sitting around waiting for much to load. A rare exception would be VSL Synchron pianos, which run about ten seconds.


This is reassuring, thanks Evans! When you say last gen you mean these? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1380215-REG/sandisk_sdssde60_2t00_g25_extreme_600_2tb_ssd.html


----------



## Evans

Toecutter said:


> This is reassuring, thanks Evans! When you say last gen you mean these? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1380215-REG/sandisk_sdssde60_2t00_g25_extreme_600_2tb_ssd.html


Yep, I think that's right, since mine are "up to 550 MB/s" and not 1050 MB/s like the newer ones.


----------



## SlHarder

For CCX subs that are dealing with white noise. Support sent me a new Opus version 1.0.0 Built on Apr 23 2021 13:14:21 VST3 x86.

After 3 hrs of testing I have had no white noise. And loading of samples seemed smoother, with no dropouts when a key is pressed. No noticeable dropout of notes in Orchestrator.

I would assume they will push this out to everyone soon.

Fwiw


----------



## Nevermeister

SlHarder said:


> For CCX subs that are dealing with white noise. Support sent me a new Opus version 1.0.0 Built on Apr 23 2021 13:14:21 VST3 x86.
> 
> After 3 hrs of testing I have had no white noise. And loading of samples seemed smoother, with no dropouts when a key is pressed. No noticeable dropout of notes in Orchestrator.
> 
> I would assume they will push this out to everyone soon.
> 
> Fwiw


I hope very soon and that it resolves the mic problem.


----------



## Evans

Toecutter said:


> This is reassuring, thanks Evans! When you say last gen you mean these? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1380215-REG/sandisk_sdssde60_2t00_g25_extreme_600_2tb_ssd.html


Oh, and if you go external, it's best to not have them be in exFAT format (which they often come as default). At a minimum, some software (like Synchron Library Installer) will gripe at you. All you need to do is reformat before you start loading things up on it.

I forgot to reformat to NTFS once, and had to swap around some libraries to other drives, reformat, then put them back. I'm not sure I ever noticed performance gains, but it was worth doing before I filled it up.


----------



## ookami

ookami said:


> Ok now I have Issues too, when loading up a saved Project, with Ensemble Patches in Opus Orchestrator, the Performance Information is still there but the Instruments themself are missing


After Installing Product Support 7.2.3 the Patches were loading again, :D


----------



## ennbr

On USB 3.1 I'm measuring 390 MB/s read/write and USB-C 425 MB/s read/write that's with Samsung EVO drives in external case


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

FKVStudio said:


> Really? So I need a 2 tb ssd to work with Opus?


For Opus Diamond? It's just under 1TB, but I'm not sure how much space you need for the installation.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Anybody running into high cpu issues on playback?


----------



## Evans

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Anybody running into high cpu issues on playback?


What sort of issues? Is there actual audio concern?

Opus shows me sky high CPU utilization in the Opus software, yet Windows Task Manager shows smooth sailing. I think Curtis Schweitzer experienced the same on a livestream that he posted to YouTube.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Evans said:


> What sort of issues? Is there actual audio concern?
> 
> Opus shows me sky high CPU utilization in the Opus software, yet Windows Task Manager shows smooth sailing. I think Curtis Schweitzer experienced the same on a livestream that he posted to YouTube.


Yeah Opus does show higher than Cubase’s meter but I still get pops / clicks on playback. Wondering if it is a streaming from disk issue but happens even when fully loaded into RAM. Especially happening with the key switch patches and switching between arts.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

After some help from support, it turns out my initial installation was messed up. For many patches, it was wanting do the cloud download, which didn't make sense. I did a complete wipe of Opus and reinstalled from scratch. It now runs even better, and so far there's no white noise. SUPPORT HAS BEEN WONDERFUL.

*Ok, going to eat my words here...*

Due to the initial installation, Opus must have been using some old samples. But now, I can hear the new enhancements. In particular, the woodwinds. For example, the solo clarinet legato sounds like it was indeed repaired.....whew! I agree, it sounds "better". Same samples, but definitely improved.

Honestly, I can't stop tinkering with Orchestrator, absolutely dig this.


----------



## SlHarder

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Anybody running into high cpu issues on playback?


Watching Task Manager on Windows I'm seeing a much lower cpu usage than is reported by Opus during bit sample loads. No sure what is being measured by Opus.

Idling (Chrome, Daw, system, my TaskM is reporting 9%+-
Core I5 with 32gb.

Loading Orchestrator from scratch
Opus will report max of 90% but TaskM highest is 13%.
Loading Dark Hero 01 Opus say 99% but TaskM highest is 65%.
Playing a 3 note chord Opus is 16% and TaskM is 20%.


----------



## Peros

So guys...for someone who never got into the east west eco-system...is Hollywood Orchestra worth it? i’ve checked out the few vids on youtube but nobody up till now did a comprehensive review a la Daniel James or Cory where you can really hear it being used...from the demo on the webpage, i dig the sound but i don’t know the amount of processing used on it...any chance of some of you sharing some sounds?? thanks


----------



## ennbr

Jeremy Spencer said:


> For Opus Diamond? It's just under 1TB, but I'm not sure how much space you need for the installation.


Full install is 988GB for Opus Diamond


----------



## SlHarder

SlHarder said:


> For CCX subs that are dealing with white noise. Support sent me a new Opus version 1.0.0 Built on Apr 23 2021 13:14:21 VST3 x86.
> 
> After 3 hrs of testing I have had no white noise. And loading of samples seemed smoother, with no dropouts when a key is pressed. No noticeable dropout of notes in Orchestrator.
> 
> I would assume they will push this out to everyone soon.


I didn't see any reason to not share the links. I have only used the Win version.

MAC:


WINDOWS:


----------



## Toecutter

Peros said:


> So guys...for someone who never got into the east west eco-system...is Hollywood Orchestra worth it? i’ve checked out the few vids on youtube but nobody up till now did a comprehensive review a la Daniel James or Cory where you can really hear it being used...from the demo on the webpage, i dig the sound but i don’t know the amount of processing used on it...any chance of some of you sharing some sounds?? thanks




If you are a new user, it's totally worth it at the current price.


----------



## Evans

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Honestly, I can't stop tinkering with Orchestrator, absolutely dig this.


The Orchestrator is pretty much a way to create your own versions of Stories from ProjectSAM Lumina (just stuck with Opus instruments), and for that I absolutely love it.

It's an advancement beyond a standard Kontakt multi, and is ridiculously usable in that respect.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Evans said:


> The Orchestrator is pretty much a way to create your own versions of Stories from ProjectSAM Lumina (just stuck with Opus instruments), and for that I absolutely love it.
> 
> It's an advancement beyond a standard Kontakt multi, and is ridiculously usable in that respect.


Agreed. I use Lumina often, and it is indeed very similar. Now if we could only get a MIDI export feature...


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

Hopefully, I emailed head of support as instructed on their facebook page but no response yet.


----------



## Allen Constantine

SlHarder said:


> I didn't see any reason to not share the links. I have only used the Win version.
> 
> MAC:
> 
> 
> WINDOWS:



So this fixes the notes dropouts? 

Because from time to time, I need to restart the DAW just to be able to play it!


----------



## MarcusD

Found an issue with the GUI scaling when using +25% HDPI on the new Cubase 11.20 update. If you open and close the "edit instrument" view it'll eventually keep getting smaller. Can anyone else recreate this? Doesn't seem to effect other plugins / VSTi's, so I'm guessing it's to do with Opus.


----------



## larry777

FKVStudio said:


> Ok, that sounds better. Thank you.
> 
> A doubt for those who are trying it. Can it work well with an External SSD connected via USB 3.1 or is an internal SSD more recommended?


Have it on USB 3.1 SSD , no problem so far, pretty responsive.


----------



## SlHarder

AllenConstantine said:


> So this fixes the notes dropouts?


The new build is working very well for me. So far, other than one little graphics issue with overlaying daw windows, Opus is very responsive and works as you would expect it to. I'm trying it with "no Preload" and ok so far, figured that was a little bit of a stress test. I have not yet run 10 instances at the same time so that's next for testing.

And now that I'm concentrating on instruments I'm really liking the playability.


----------



## Cormast

Nevermeister said:


> I have the same problem with my close mics. How/Where did you move the samples? Thank you.


Hi. I moved surround mics sample files for each instrument i use in another directory, out of the mains Opus instruments directories. So Opus can't access them, but you can't load them neither. It is just a temporary solution waiting for a fix.


----------



## lettucehat

How pared down is the Hollywood Strings Diamond patch selection? I saw some complaints about losing the marcato bow change patches.


----------



## gst98

lettucehat said:


> How pared down is the Hollywood Strings Diamond patch selection? I saw some complaints about losing the marcato bow change patches.



0. It has been consolidated, so just a heavy patch and a light patch, no in between for example. The full KS masters can be over 30 articulations on some. 

The Marcato is still there, but now it’s just marc sustain, and you can add the legato transition. I haven’t compared it to the old one yet to see if it’s true that it feels different. I haven’t checked, but presumably you just use cc to turn on BC like the other legato patches.


----------



## lettucehat

gst98 said:


> 0. It has been consolidated, so just a heavy patch and a light patch, no in between for example. The full KS masters can be over 30 articulations on some.
> 
> The Marcato is still there, but now it’s just marc sustain, and you can add the legato transition. I haven’t compared it to the old one yet to see if it’s true that it feels different. I haven’t checked, but presumably you just use cc to turn on BC like the other legato patches.


Thanks, I see... How about loose shorts? (lol)

Edit: and the legato you would add to Marcato Sus is true legato in Diamond, right? In Gold (testing with my cloud subscription) there's no option for true legato here. Perhaps because bow change is exclusive to Diamond.


----------



## gst98

lettucehat said:


> Thanks, I see... How about loose shorts? (lol)



Yes that escaped me, forgot those


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Anyone able to get the orchestrator to work with other vst?


----------



## MarcusD

Anyone else got samples missing from C2, D2 & G2 when using String sustains in the Orchestrator? The surrounding keys seem to be fine but those three don't play anything.

EDIT: Ok restarted the engine and it's ok now. Wondering if the engine can get confused when assigning the patches to different registers (Lowest, All Notes, etc...)


----------



## Fa

ProfoundSilence said:


> Anyone able to get the orchestrator to work with other vst?


Yes of course. You need to route the MIDI Output port of it (e.g. in Cubase) to the midi input of an instrument track matching the channel(s) of the original HO Opus instruments.

I sent the Orchestrator output to VE Pro, and I got the whole arrangements doubled in real time by additional third party instruments.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Fa said:


> Yes of course. You need to route the MIDI Output port of it (e.g. in Cubase) to the midi input of an instrument track matching the channel(s) of the original HO Opus instruments.
> 
> I sent the Orchestrator output to VE Pro, and I got the whole arrangements doubled in real time by additional third party instruments.


Cool. If using reaper I suspect you could just add the instance before Kontakt, or make a track that routes it to your other instruments. 

I'll probably grab the sub and see if it works well.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Has anyone tried using VEPro 7 with Opus CCX? For some reason, Opus wants to keep loading the close mic's, even though I turn them off.


----------



## Olang

I've been having issues of missing samples (the nag screen that comes up is particularly VERY annoying, as you can't close out of it before spamming close 100 times).

The white noise effect seems to be gone, though this may be because I'm using the KS option and there could just be a bug with directly using the patches.

I have to find the samples every time I open the project in FL to get anything working.

Edit: actually *it is* streaming the samples when playing on MIDI Keyboard so it knows where they are, but on playback the player is silent.


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

Anyone getting an issue with the sustain pedal not working with orchestrator? Works for everything except that.


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

Haavard said:


> I miss using the sustain pedal with Opus on e.g. strings. Does anyone know if it is possible to get it to work?


Seems to work fine except for Orchestrator for me. Just got an email from Michael Pluebell, they are aware of the issue and looking into it. For now I'm using FL Studio which has a sustain pedal simulation feature


----------



## PatrickS

ProfoundSilence said:


> Cool. If using reaper I suspect you could just add the instance before Kontakt, or make a track that routes it to your other instruments.
> 
> I'll probably grab the sub and see if it works well.


I also strongly suspect that this would be fairly easy to accomplish with Unify but do not have an active sub to check this out.


----------



## Evans

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Yeah Opus does show higher than Cubase’s meter but I still get pops / clicks on playback. Wondering if it is a streaming from disk issue but happens even when fully loaded into RAM. Especially happening with the key switch patches and switching between arts.


Yeah, I'm getting some CPU issues this morning. It's on an 8-core i9-9900 @ 3.6 GHz, so that's kind of silly.


----------



## BasariStudios

Now my final question on this will be:
For someone who does not need and doesn't care
about the Orchestrator, is Opus really needed for HO?


----------



## Evans

BasariStudios said:


> Now my final question on this will be:
> For someone who does not need and doesn't care
> about the Orchestrator, is Opus really needed for HO?


No one "needs" Opus. 

Based on a skim of your post history, my assumption is that you are better off not considering a purchase and that you should probably stop following the thread.


----------



## Markrs

Another review of HO Opus:


----------



## Evans

*Step 1:* Load something up in the Orchestrator.

*Step 2: *Do the "run Opus output to a new DAW track and split the results to separate channels" trick.

*Step 3: *Substitute various combinations of other products (pick your favorite: Berlin series? Cinematic Studio? Something else?).

*Step 4: *Adjust some mics, dial in a bit with light EQ. Pop on some light reverb.

*Step 5:* Marvel at how well EWHO/Opus instruments work together.

I have minimal needs, so it's not often that I'm actually piecing together 10, 15, 20 active tracks of orchestral instruments (much less the 50 or 100+ that some people have in a project). I'm a "strings are pretty much just pads" kind of person for most usage. But if I do have a reason to use every section of the orchestra, christ, Opus sounds great.

Side note: As expected, AROOF takes very little adjustment to sound great with an Orchestrator preset.


----------



## Eric G

BasariStudios said:


> Now my final question on this will be:
> For someone who does not need and doesn't care
> about the Orchestrator, is Opus really needed for HO?


I would not rely on hot takes on this forum. Download the Manual and make your own judgment. I believe you will find there is a lot more to OPUS than you may think. And depends on what you value. So put in the work.


----------



## alir1296

ProfoundSilence said:


> If using reaper I suspect you could just add the instance before Kontakt


If you're trying to use multiple midi VSTs on one track in Reaper, you need to make sure that the midi output settings of each VST are correct.
In the plugin window, press the button where, for me, it says '2/30 out' I think 18 outs (9 stereo) is default for Opus but not sure. 
Then you need to press 'I/O' in the top corner of that grey window with all the output configs, then press 'MIDI output', and change it from 'MIDI Bus 1' to 'Map VST3 MIDI buses to REAPER MIDI buses'. This will mean that the MIDI that the tracks placed after OPUS will see, is the output from OPUS. 
Also, to make sure that the chords you play which input into OPUS aren't played by the instrument on channel 1, make sure 'Replaces MIDI bus (default)' is ticked.





Finally, if you have a Kontakt instance placed before OPUS and OPUS isn't picking up any MIDI, you need to make sure that in Kontakt the MIDI output is set to 'MIDI output disabled', as otherwise Kontakt will replace the midi information with the MIDI output from any plugins inside of Kontakt, which is nearly always no output, meaning that when it gets to OPUS, there will be no MIDI data there. To do this, get to the same window as shown above when in the Kontakt VST, and make sure there correct option is ticked.

Hope this makes sense and helps!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

alir1296 said:


> If you're trying to use multiple midi VSTs on one track in Reaper, you need to make sure that the midi output settings of each VST are correct.
> In the plugin window, press the button where, for me, it says '2/30 out' I think 18 outs (9 stereo) is default for Opus but not sure.
> Then you need to press 'I/O' in the top corner of that grey window with all the output configs, then press 'MIDI output', and change it from 'MIDI Bus 1' to 'Map VST3 MIDI buses to REAPER MIDI buses'. This will mean that the MIDI that the tracks placed after OPUS will see, is the output from OPUS.
> Also, to make sure that the chords you play which input into OPUS aren't played by the instrument on channel 1, make sure 'Replaces MIDI bus (default)' is ticked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, if you have a Kontakt instance placed before OPUS and OPUS isn't picking up any MIDI, you need to make sure that in Kontakt the MIDI output is set to 'MIDI output disabled', as otherwise Kontakt will replace the midi information with the MIDI output from any plugins inside of Kontakt, which is nearly always no output, meaning that when it gets to OPUS, there will be no MIDI data there. To do this, get to the same window as shown above when in the Kontakt VST, and make sure there correct option is ticked.
> 
> Hope this makes sense and helps!


I'm quite familiar with reapers midi routing - it was more of a question of wether or not opus sends midi out.


----------



## alir1296

ProfoundSilence said:


> I'm quite familiar with reapers midi routing - it was more of a question of wether or not opus sends midi out.


Yeah it does, you just have to select 'Map VST3 MIDI buses to REAPER MIDI buses'.


----------



## Markrs

alir1296 said:


> If you're trying to use multiple midi VSTs on one track in Reaper, you need to make sure that the midi output settings of each VST are correct.
> In the plugin window, press the button where, for me, it says '2/30 out' I think 18 outs (9 stereo) is default for Opus but not sure.
> Then you need to press 'I/O' in the top corner of that grey window with all the output configs, then press 'MIDI output', and change it from 'MIDI Bus 1' to 'Map VST3 MIDI buses to REAPER MIDI buses'. This will mean that the MIDI that the tracks placed after OPUS will see, is the output from OPUS.
> Also, to make sure that the chords you play which input into OPUS aren't played by the instrument on channel 1, make sure 'Replaces MIDI bus (default)' is ticked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, if you have a Kontakt instance placed before OPUS and OPUS isn't picking up any MIDI, you need to make sure that in Kontakt the MIDI output is set to 'MIDI output disabled', as otherwise Kontakt will replace the midi information with the MIDI output from any plugins inside of Kontakt, which is nearly always no output, meaning that when it gets to OPUS, there will be no MIDI data there. To do this, get to the same window as shown above when in the Kontakt VST, and make sure there correct option is ticked.
> 
> Hope this makes sense and helps!


Was super helpful for me, as I have really used midi output routing much like this, so appreciate the quick guide in how to do it.


----------



## alir1296

Markrs said:


> Was super helpful for me, as I have really used midi output routing much like this, so appreciate the quick guide in how to do it.


No problem glad I could help


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Evans said:


> Yeah, I'm getting some CPU issues this morning. It's on an 8-core i9-9900 @ 3.6 GHz, so that's kind of silly.


I have the same CPU. Seems they’ve reproduced my issues though so hoping it’ll be addressed soon. Support (which has been excellent) said they are aware of the CPU problems. Interestingly, last night I was able to write across the sections without any problems though - same patches. Maybe I just know how to minimize the spikes now. I will say, playing together, sounds absolutely stellar.


----------



## BasariStudios

Evans said:


> Side note: As expected, AROOF takes very little adjustment to sound great with an Orchestrator preset.


How does that work, is it useful in a meaningful way?


----------



## Dex

BasariStudios said:


> How does that work, is it useful in a meaningful way?


I don't even know what AROOF is.


----------



## cqd

Dex said:


> I don't even know what AROOF is.


The top of a house..


----------



## Evans

BasariStudios said:


> How does that work, is it useful in a meaningful way?


The idea for me is that the Orchestrator can get the cogs turning for an idea, but what if I feel that another library is more suited for the project? Perhaps I want a different stage, sharper short articulations, or different section sizes.

It's similar to how I think of ProjectSAM's Lumina "stories," in that it sparks something, but very little of the library makes a final cut.

So, I've been checking out what it takes for another library to use the Orchestrator's MIDI data and apply it to each library's own unique patch structure. Re-familiarizing myself with which have all artics on separate patches; which are heavily KS-based; and so on.

AROOF is simply one example that let me take an Orchestrator MIDI dump and get a significantly more rich hall than Opus provides out of the box with very little effort. A little volume balancing, and AROOF "felt finished," so to speak.

I'm sure someone who wants YouTube views will eventually put together some examples.



Dex said:


> I don't even know what AROOF is.


Abbey Road One Orchestral Foundations. It seems to be one of VI-Control's favorite terms, and appears here:





Glossary of VI-C Abbreviations


AAF: Able Artist Foundation (link) AAX: Avid Audio Extension (plugin format created for Pro Tools) AB: Adventure Brass (Music Sampling) AD/AD2: Addictive Drums (XLN Audio) AI: Audio Imperia ALB1/ALB2/ALB3/etc: Albion Series (Spitfire) ALBO: Albion ONE (Spitfire) AM: Audio Modeling AMS: Aleatoric...




vi-control.net


----------



## M4T

ookami said:


> The Thing is that Opus will be installed in the same directory as the Diamond or Gold Sections sit, so we had to move Strings Diamond to another Drive to have enough space on the two 1TB SSDs


What I can tell is that I have a dedicated 2TB SSD for EW (composer cloud) ... It is almost full


----------



## M4T

FKVStudio said:


> Really? So I need a 2 tb ssd to work with Opus?


That is what I have, 2 TB for EW, a dedicated SSD


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Evans said:


> No one "needs" Opus.
> 
> Based on a skim of your post history, my assumption is that you are better off not considering a purchase and that you should probably stop following the thread.


He has FOMO for "FLOPUS" now.


----------



## ookami

M4T said:


> What I can tell is that I have a dedicated 2TB SSD for EW (composer cloud) ... It is almost full


True with the Other Libraries we also have 2 dedicated SSDs for EW CC :D


----------



## ookami

One Issue stays the Same, everytime I reload a Project the Orchestrator Instances have lost the Reverb Settings when set to Master, anyone else having the same Issues?


----------



## Allen Constantine

SlHarder said:


> The new build is working very well for me. So far, other than one little graphics issue with overlaying daw windows, Opus is very responsive and works as you would expect it to. I'm trying it with "no Preload" and ok so far, figured that was a little bit of a stress test. I have not yet run 10 instances at the same time so that's next for testing.
> 
> And now that I'm concentrating on instruments I'm really liking the playability.


Thanks for your notes. Out of curiosity, what specs do you have on your machine? I have not tried the Never Preload. I left it on, as I have the samples on a brand new SSD. But hey, I'll give that a try. Maybe that will fix the note dropouts. My system is a Ryzen 3900x with 64GB DDR4... I figured I won't have any problems with it. 

I'll still wait for the official fix, though. I'm assuming next week is going to turn up?!


----------



## gohrev

I use a ton of EW's percussion (Ghostwriter, Dark Side, HWO Percussion, Stormdrums, etc.) - and I am _very _impressed with Opus' loading times.


----------



## Audio Birdi

EW Support sorted out the Solo Cello Opus CCX issue for me !

It looks like the install doesn't download / install the Solo Cello Opus Gold version and doesn't then allow for the Opus player to see the Solo Cello since it thinks that only the Opus Mid mic is installed and now the Gold Close mic by default.


----------



## alcorey

Anyone experimented with Orchestrator in Logic Pro X for getting the midi out from Opus in to it to control 3rd party vi's? I can't figure it out


----------



## jamie8

Audio Birdi said:


> EW Support sorted out the Solo Cello Opus CCX issue for me !
> 
> It looks like the install doesn't download / install the Solo Cello Opus Gold version and doesn't then allow for the Opus player to see the Solo Cello since it thinks that only the Opus Mid mic is installed and now the Gold Close mic by default.


i have the same issue , what was the solution? im on a mac.
also it seems in orchestrator the key ranges can't be extended, try and use say spiccato unison patch and try and extend the bass , can't do it ,...you can go into zones and play it on the comp keyboard by pressing your mouse but you can't assign it to play lower and there is room for it before you get to the key switches hmmm . also where are the midi tools , mine when you press midi tools don't show up its blank!


----------



## AndyP

jamie8 said:


> i have the same issue , what was the solution? im on a mac.
> also it seems in orchestrator the key ranges can't be extended, try and use say spiccato unison patch and try and extend the bass , can't do it ,...you can go into zones and play it on the comp keyboard by pressing your mouse but you can't assign it to play lower and there is room for it before you get to the key switches hmmm . also where are the midi tools , mine when you press midi tools don't show up its blank!


Open them from the Menu on the right. Default is no Toos loaded.


----------



## Horvath

alcorey said:


> Anyone experimented with Orchestrator in Logic Pro X for getting the midi out from Opus in to it to control 3rd party vi's? I can't figure it out


Very much interested by that too! Thanks for any advice.


----------



## hauspe

Big RAM issue of OPUS: I tried to load the following instruments into Opus (all key switches) 1.VL, 2.VL, Viola, Celli, Bassi. OPUS and the Windows task manager shows me 16GB of RAM used - that is massive! Playing a few samples result in crackles, freezes and noises, also there are missing samples. "Play" needs only 3GB of RAM instead....no issues so far as usual.


----------



## Nevermeister

hauspe said:


> Big RAM issue of OPUS: I tried to load the following instruments into Opus (all keyswitches) 1.VL, 2.VL, Viola, Celli, Bassi. OPUs and the Windows task manager shows me 16GB of RAM used - that is massive! Playing a few samples result in crackles, freezes and noises, also there are missing samples. "Play" needs only 3GB of RRAM instead....no issues so far as usual.


Same here. One of the developers advised me to build my own keyswitch map... I was waiting Opus for the keyswitches and now one of them said me that i should create my own like i always did. :D Or we can use the purge function. It's good.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

hauspe said:


> Big RAM issue of OPUS: I tried to load the following instruments into Opus (all keyswitches) 1.VL, 2.VL, Viola, Celli, Bassi. OPUs and the Windows task manager shows me 16GB of RAM used - that is massive! Playing a few samples result in crackles, freezes and noises, also there are missing samples. "Play" needs only 3GB of RRAM instead....no issues so far as usual.


What are you system specs?


----------



## hauspe

Jeremy Spencer said:


> What are you system specs?


Ryzen 2700x, 32GB RAM (3600Mhz). To be honest, why needs one instance of OPUS loaded with these 5 instruments so much RAM while 5 "Play" instances loaded with one instrument each only 3GB?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

hauspe said:


> Ryzen 2700x, 32GB RAM (3600Mhz). To be honest, why needs one instance of OPUS loaded with these 5 instruments so much RAM while 5 "Play" instances loaded with one instrument each only 3GB?


Make sure you report it to support so they can look into it and pass it on to the development team.


----------



## AndyP

hauspe said:


> Ryzen 2700x, 32GB RAM (3600Mhz). To be honest, why needs one instance of OPUS loaded with these 5 instruments so much RAM while 5 "Play" instances loaded with one instrument each only 3GB?


Note which mic positions have been loaded. While Play has loaded only 1 mic, mostly the main, OPUS loads mostly 2 activated mic positions! This also explains the high RAM consumption.

It's the settings of the Moods. The Classic Mood is the most RAM friendly, but I would have preferred another Mood with only Main as default.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Note which mic positions have been loaded. While Play has loaded only 1 mic, mostly the main, OPUS loads mostly 2 activated mic positions! This also explains the high RAM consumption.


AndyP said:


> It's the settings of the Moods. The Classic Mood is the most RAM friendly, but I would have preferred another Mood with only Main as default.


Yeah, it’s an issue with the Gold version too. Loads two mic’s, and you cannot unload the close mic’s without them reloading. EW is working on the bug.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

If anybody would like a starting point out for Cubase expression maps for OPUS strings, brass, and woodwinds master keyswitch patches, here are mine. I haven't included every articulation for every instrument - but it's free, so you get what you pay for.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Anyone experiencing dropped notes in the standalone version? Very frequently Opus will not respond at all to a keypress mid-phrase. Interestingly, though, I can hear the tail of that note when I release the key. Is this a known issue? Is there a fix?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

mopsiflopsi said:


> Anyone experiencing dropped notes in the standalone version? Very frequently Opus will not respond at all to a keypress mid-phrase. Interestingly, though, I can hear the tail of that note when I release the key. Is this a known issue? Is there a fix?


You should report it to support. I haven't come across it yet.


----------



## EgM

I've had all weekend to play with it and I gotta say, once the Opus player/engine and the orchestrator gets over its growing pains it'll be pretty awesome! Not 500$ upgrade awesome, but close.

I'm not one who generally uses those kinds of orchestrators but this one sure helps out with creativity and if the end users start sharing their presets, this could become very interesting! 

Many other tweaks in the patches are very nice, and the player itself using a real purge method is a godsend.


----------



## Allen Constantine

Hey peeps, out of curiosity, how much size does the Strings folder in your PC/Mac is?

Mine show's this... I remember I saw when downloading that it was over 400GB... that's strange...

And while someone is at it, can you post a screenshot with all the files as in size? Like in this second picture. 

Just to check I have everything correct?! Thanks guys!


----------



## ennbr

48.9 MB Orchestrator
15.38 GB harp
40.87 GB solo cello
39.09 GB solo violin
201.2 GB brass
74.96 GB perc
190.85 GB wood
376.42 GB string

I'm on a Mac doesn't show Directory sizes I have to get those through the Inspector window one directory at a time


----------



## Allen Constantine

ennbr said:


> 48.9 MB Orchestrator
> 15.38 GB harp
> 40.87 GB solo cello
> 39.09 GB solo violin
> 201.2 GB brass
> 74.96 GB perc
> 190.85 GB wood
> 376.42 GB string
> 
> I'm on a Mac doesn't show Directory sizes I have to get those through the Inspector window one directory at a time


Thanks a lot!


----------



## hauspe

Regarding to the RAM issue I got in touch with EW support. An other issue is the project saving times. Yesterday I tried to integrate OPUS in an older project and was stunning about the endless time Cubase needs saving the project on SSD (M2 PCI-E). As mentioned earlier, OPUS needs a lot of RAM when loading keyswitch instruments, f.eg. 1. VL up to 8GB. Saving a single project in Cubase with only one OPUS instance open and the 1. Violin's keyswitch loaded Cubase needs more than 14 seconds on a M2 SSD...I feel like I am back on HDD. BTW disabling the 2. mic position (surround) results in 2GB RAM less consumption. Anyway 6GB is still huge...Orchestrator loaded with Strings Long - Big Legato the saving time is around 4 seconds, 4.5 GB RAM used (task manager without Cubase). Imagine big Mockups with mulitple OPUS sessions, you need a PC with 128 RAM and a RAID M2 combo. For the moment OPUS is partly usable and still needs a lot of optimization.

PS: I already got in touch by EW (must be 2am or so in the States lol), they are looking into the RAM/CPU consumption and the project save time. Despite of the fact that OPUS is still BETA and still needs a lot of development effort, I hesitate to buy Spitfire SSO, which also was on my wish list for a long time.


----------



## M4T

ALittleNightMusic said:


> If anybody would like a starting point out for Cubase expression maps for OPUS strings, brass, and woodwinds master keyswitch patches, here are mine. I haven't included every articulation for every instrument - but it's free, so you get what you pay for.


I'll definitely check those ! Thanks for the hard work


----------



## Geoff Grace

And I'd like to add my thanks to all of you early adopters who are helping to create a better experience for the rest of us who will eventually join in.

Much appreciated!

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Markrs

I do feel that this thread should almost be renamed the "Opus Beta Testers", even though unlike with normal beta testers, people have either a subscription or have paid for it. However, like others I am grateful for all this work in the hope we end up with a more usable,stable and efficient HO Opus


----------



## szczaw

That's right, no beta testers needed when you have subscribers.


----------



## cqd

Is that not the case for anyone who buys a new product?.. and especially one in a new player?.. I'm thinking it rolled out fairly well..


----------



## gst98

There are a few small bugs, but support replies very fast, and within 3rd day of release everything works near flawlessly for me.

SINE took months to stop crashing, but that is still better than the SF player which still causes issues for me. Not to say others aren't still having problems, but I'd say this was a pretty good release.


----------



## Markrs

cqd said:


> Is that not the case for anyone who buys a new product?.. and especially one in a new player?.. I'm thinking it rolled out fairly well..


I would argue (though I respect that others may have a different experience) that this has been a difficult release:

Orchestrator didn't initially work for some of us
The deafness by white noise issue,
Libraries installed but not visible in Opus
Some libraries seem to have been installed in the wrong folder so some patches have no sound.
Ram issues over previous Play
CPU issues over previous play
I am sure there are more. This seems pretty buggy to me. The white noise and patches being silent is a particular issue, which will probably involve reinstalling some sample libraies to fix.


----------



## Braveheart

Markrs said:


> I would argue (though I respect that others may have a different experience) that this has been a difficult release:
> 
> 
> Orchestrator didn't initially work for some of ud
> The deafness by white noise issue,
> Libraries installed but not visible in Opus
> Some libraries seem to have been I stalled in the wrong folder so some patches have no sound.
> Ram issues over previous Play
> CPU issues over previous play
> I am sure there are more. This seems pretty buggy to me.


There were hundreds of pages from people complaining that it was delayed. EastWest probably heard you all and decided not to postpone any further. That’s the result.


----------



## Markrs

Braveheart said:


> There were hundreds of pages from people complaining that it was delayed. EastWest probably heard you all and decided not to postpone any further. That’s the result.


Possibly, but it was only delay based on the dates they gave. They should have not given dates until they were more certain as to when it was close to release.

I should add, the delay was actually not the issue for most, rather the lack of communication.


----------



## cqd

Markrs said:


> I would argue (though I respect that others may have a different experience) that this has been a difficult release:
> 
> Orchestrator didn't initially work for some of us
> The deafness by white noise issue,
> Libraries installed but not visible in Opus
> Some libraries seem to have been installed in the wrong folder so some patches have no sound.
> Ram issues over previous Play
> CPU issues over previous play
> I am sure there are more. This seems pretty buggy to me. The white noise and patches being silent is a particular issue, which will probably involve reinstalling some sample libraies to fix.


Yeah, but a certain amount of that is to be expected..the installation issues were solved within a day or so.. there's already a version b of opus..

(I'm kind of comparing it to the bbcso roll out..I ended up getting my money back after being strung along for a month, while the spitfire lads were accusing the whole site of being very negative because they released something that didn't work in Windows.. I'm still traumatized by it..)
So in comparison to that this has seemed ok..I do realise I'm speaking as one of the people it works for though..
There were issues around sine for a good while too, weren't there?..

I honestly think there was just a momentum of complaining built up over this..


----------



## cqd

Markrs said:


> Possibly, but it was only delay based on the dates they gave. They should have not given dates until they were more certain as to when it was close to release.
> 
> I should add, the delay was actually not the issue for most, rather the lack of communication.


Yeah, this is true.. but I kind of think that's down to EWs attitude towards their customers on one level which is "ah, f*ck em..".. Which you have to kind of admire in a way..


----------



## gst98

cqd said:


> Yeah, but a certain amount of that is to be expected..the installation issues were solved within a day or so.. there's already a version b of opus..
> 
> (I'm kind of comparing it to the bbcso roll out..I ended up getting my money back after being strung along for a month, while the spitfire lads were accusing the whole site of being very negative because they released something that didn't work in Windows.. I'm still traumatized by it..)
> So in comparison to that this has seemed ok..I do realise I'm speaking as one of the people it works for though..
> There were issues around sine for a good while too, weren't there?..
> 
> I honestly think there was just a momentum of complaining built up over this..


BSS still doesn't mic merge, JXL took months to stop crashing (still does for some).



Markrs said:


> I would argue (though I respect that others may have a different experience) that this has been a difficult release:
> 
> Orchestrator didn't initially work for some of us
> The deafness by white noise issue,
> Libraries installed but not visible in Opus
> Some libraries seem to have been installed in the wrong folder so some patches have no sound.
> Ram issues over previous Play
> CPU issues over previous play
> I am sure there are more. This seems pretty buggy to me. The white noise and patches being silent is a particular issue, which will probably involve reinstalling some sample libraies to fix.


I haven't had this CPU or RAM problem, but it seems to be a bug. Much better than play for me personally. compare to SF, when you have the player working properly it still gives a worse performance, you still have fewer features than Kontakt.

Orchestrator was fixed day 2. White noise appears to be a bad install issue, I always got a dialogue box to say there were missing samples, and pressing download will reinstall them. Libraries not visible is a case of having to manually add it. I still have this with SINE and SF where they randomly disappear for some reason. 

EW's marketing was pretty poor, but people are wanting to hate the rollout because of it.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

gst98 said:


> EW's marketing was pretty poor, but people are wanting to hate the rollout because of it.


Yes, I was disappointed with the rollout communication, etc, but it's water under the bridge. For me, Opus/Orchestrator has proven to be a great package. The support has been top notch, and I'm no longer experiencing the major bugs (white noise, installation issues, etc). A few minor bugs to iron out, but EW is all over it.


----------



## SlHarder

Has anyone successfully used Voice 2 in the Orchestrator Sequence Editor?

When I select Voice 2 I am unable to enter a sequence while Voice 1 acts as I would expect from the documentation. 

I have not found a factory preset that uses Voice 2 either.


----------



## Geoff Grace

I think that rolling out two new products (Opus and Orchestrator) at once is a pretty ambitious undertaking, even more so for a company used to releasing sample libraries much more often than samplers or players. I'm not surprised that there were bugs to overcome, especially considering that Hollywood Orchestra was already a demanding product on system resources.

I imagine that things could have turned out much worse, and I'm looking forward to the next stage.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Nuno

Does anyone have a solution for the white noise already?

I started to have bursts of white noise after upgrading from CC to CCx 

While i using only Gold everything was fine...


----------



## AndyP

If I compare OPUS without the orchestrator with Spitfire Player or Sine, I find OPUS clearer and more intuitive to use, and also much more appealing from the UI.

The number of features and functions is impressive, even if there are still a few bugs here and there. Technically, I can work with it, and of course hope for further improvements that will come gradually via update.

For a version 1.0 this is not bad at all.


----------



## szczaw

It sure is ambitious. Once they sort out all the issues, they may end up with the best player on the market.


----------



## zimm83

AndyP said:


> If I compare OPUS without the orchestrator with Spitfire Player or Sine, I find OPUS clearer and more intuitive to use, and also much more appealing from the UI.
> 
> The number of features and functions is impressive, even if there are still a few bugs here and there. Technically, I can work with it, and of course hope for further improvements that will come gradually via update.
> 
> For a version 1.0 this is not bad at all.


Exactly. I 'm a Kontakt hardcore fan....But this is for me the next step... really Great product with tons of possibilities. 
I'm hoping EW is converting Orchestrator for the older libraries like Stormdrum etc...such a great way of making patterns ostis and melodies...
Great OPUS.


----------



## SlHarder

Nuno said:


> Does anyone have a solution for the white noise already








Hollywood orchestra opus edition and hollywood orchestrator


Anyone getting an issue with the sustain pedal not working with orchestrator? Works for everything except that.




vi-control.net


----------



## ChristianM

AllenConstantine said:


> Hey peeps, out of curiosity, how much size does the Strings folder in your PC/Mac is?
> 
> Mine show's this... I remember I saw when downloading that it was over 400GB... that's strange...
> 
> And while someone is at it, can you post a screenshot with all the files as in size? Like in this second picture.
> 
> Just to check I have everything correct?! Thanks guys!


Without Opus:


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

My only gripe with the GUI is that they removed the Con Sordino button. You now need to use CC15 to activate it, but I preferred the button.


----------



## cqd

Jeremy Spencer said:


> My only gripe with the GUI is that they removed the Con Sordino button. You now need to use CC15 to activate it, but I preferred the button.


Did they?..I was nearly sure I saw it?..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cqd said:


> Did they?..I was nearly sure I saw it?..


Lol! It's entirely possible I cannot see it. But even n the manual, it states you must use CC15.


----------



## cqd

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Lol! It's entirely possible I cannot see it. But even n the manual, it states you must use CC15.


I'm nearly sure I saw it on some patches anyway.. like, I'd say 99% sure.. maybe it depends on which patch you load up.. although I was probably only using the KS patches..


----------



## MauroPantin

Con sord button is definitely there, and the "soft" mood sometimes activates it


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Maybe it’s only in the Diamond version?


----------



## MauroPantin

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Maybe it’s only in the Diamond version?


I don't have access to gold to compare, but maybe try the patch named "1st Violins Leg Slur MAX" and let us know? That'd be an interesting difference given the fact that Gold had the Con Sord button in Play.


----------



## Lazer42

gst98 said:


> 0. It has been consolidated, so just a heavy patch and a light patch, no in between for example. The full KS masters can be over 30 articulations on some.
> 
> The Marcato is still there, but now it’s just marc sustain, and you can add the legato transition. I haven’t compared it to the old one yet to see if it’s true that it feels different. I haven’t checked, but presumably you just use cc to turn on BC like the other legato patches.


How do you add the legato transition to the marc sustain?


----------



## cqd

Lazer42 said:


> How do you add the legato transition to the marc sustain?


Hit the legato button?.
Or the mono true legato if it's there..


----------



## Lazer42

cqd said:


> Hit the legato button?.
> Or the mono true legato if it's there.


Sure, you can hit the legato button, but that isn't the same as loading legato patches. The discussion that prompted my question concerned the question of whether or not EW had removed the Marc Legato patch from Opus, since it doesn't appear any longer. One user had said that they had not removed it and then also said it is still there just only as Marc Sustain.

So is it being suggested that if you turn on the legato button in the Marc Sustain patch you will get legato? If so, then there is an important question: are you just getting scripted legato, or the recorded legato intervals that used to be available?


----------



## cqd

Lazer42 said:


> Sure, you can hit the legato button, but that isn't the same as loading legato patches. The discussion that prompted my question concerned the question of whether or not EW had removed the Marc Legato patch from Opus, since it doesn't appear any longer. One user had said that they had not removed it and then also said it is still there just only as Marc Sustain.
> 
> So is it being suggested that if you turn on the legato button in the Marc Sustain patch you will get legato? If so, then there is an important question: are you just getting scripted legato, or the recorded legato intervals that used to be available?


Ok..I just actually checked the manual to see what the story is..
The legato button is a legato script..
Mono true legato is recorded legato..


----------



## zimm83

One question please : can you midi learn the on/off Button of the sequencer per track in the Orchestrator ? That would be cool for live...Start/ stop an instruments seq while playing...But Not with mouse. With à keyboard control Button. Thanks.


----------



## gst98

cqd said:


> Ok..I just actually checked the manual to see what the story is..
> The legato button is a legato script..
> Mono true legato is recorded legato..


This. Also the scripted one just sounds awful, so you'll know if its the fake one


----------



## M4T

Works better than V1. This a cool way to directly route individual midi channels from the orchestrators to any instrument. You can use Kontakt if you like or any plugin.


----------



## Nuno

Having one more mic available in Opus CCX is nice, but having the close mic loaded by default in almost every patch it's annoying...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Nuno said:


> Having one more mic available in Opus CCX is nice, but having the close mic loaded by default in almost every patch it's annoying...


And if you unload the close mic, it reloads. I talked to EW support about this, and it's being addressed in an upcoming update.


----------



## Lazer42

gst98 said:


> This. Also the scripted one just sounds awful, so you'll know if its the fake one


Correct. So am I correct in understanding (I'm not in front of the software right now) that some of the patches which do not have legato in the name now have the true legato button available as well?


----------



## gfcgfc

M4T said:


> Works better than V1. This a cool way to directly route individual midi channels from the orchestrators to any instrument. You can use Kontakt if you like or any plugin.



Does anyone know if there is a way to do the same thing with logic ? I can’t find the orchestrator midi output anywhere. Should it be activated in some way ?

thanks


----------



## gst98

Lazer42 said:


> Correct. So am I correct in understanding (I'm not in front of the software right now) that some of the patches which do not have legato in the name now have the true legato button available as well?



Yeah I think you can add to pretty much everything. Trems with true legato is very useful


----------



## jamie8

AndyP said:


> Open them from the Menu on the right. Default is no Toos loaded.


Ok cool got that part!


----------



## larry777

In orchestrator F2 lots of samples not loading or missing ?


----------



## EgM

gst98 said:


> Yeah I think you can add to pretty much everything. Trems with true legato is very useful



"Scripted" legato. The term "True legato" implies that the samples were recorded with legato intervals, the trems are not.


----------



## gst98

EgM said:


> "Scripted" legato. The term "True legato" implies that the samples were recorded with legato intervals, the trems are not.



Not sure why you keep saying this? It is “true legato” because they are real recorded legato intervals. They can grafted onto any long articulation. When you use the term “recorded with” it sounds like you are not familiar with the method which legatos are recorded. These are vib and non vib legatos that are grafted to trem sustains. The vast majority of trem legatos in libraries are done this way. The script is a separate legato, with a different name.


----------



## EgM

gst98 said:


> Not sure why you keep saying this? It is “true legato” because they are real recorded legato intervals. They can grafted onto any long articulation. When you use the term “recorded with” it sounds like you are not familiar with the method which legatos are recorded. These are vib and non vib legatos that are grafted to trem sustains. The vast majority of trem legatos in libraries are done this way. The script is a separate legato, with a different name.



I've been doing scripted legato since the early 90s, these are scripted legato.

If you don't believe me, raise the time knob next to it to the max and you will hear the fake portamento kicking in.


----------



## germancomponist

EgM said:


> I've been doing scripted legato since the early 90s, these are scripted legato.
> 
> If you don't believe me, raise the time knob next to it to the max and you will hear the fake portamento kicking in.


I suggest you to book real musicians and pay them right ..... .


----------



## germancomponist

I did not read all the posts here but I think all critics should book real musicians and pay them fairly.


----------



## EgM

germancomponist said:


> I did not read all the posts here but I think all critics should book real musicians and pay them fairly.


What... are you talking about?


----------



## germancomponist

You know what? I hate the digitization! Book real musicians and don't argue about the way digitization is carried out! It doesn't sound real, that's true. But in 10 years no one will criticize this anymore, because everyone will have got used to this digital, inhuman crap! This is what our future looks like!


----------



## Trash Panda

germancomponist said:


> You know what? I hate the digitization! Book real musicians and don't argue about the way digitization is carried out! It doesn't sound real, that's true. But in 10 years no one will criticize this anymore, because everyone will have got used to this digital, inhuman crap! This is what our future looks like!


I think this forum is the wrong community for you if that’s how you feel.


----------



## germancomponist

EgM said:


> What... are you talking about?


The scripted legato .....


----------



## germancomponist

Trash Panda said:


> I think this forum is the wrong community for you if that’s how you feel.


Oh no, I think it is the right forum for my thoughts. In the past, we all were after the real thing. Yes, no? But now the things have changed. ...


----------



## EgM

germancomponist said:


> You know what? I hate the digitization! Book real musicians and don't argue about the way digitization is carried out! It doesn't sound real, that's true. But in 10 years no one will criticize this anymore, because everyone will have got used to this digital, inhuman crap! This is what our future looks like!


I’m actually a big fan of EWHO, no criticizing here. I was discussing the differences with true vs scripted legato: by scripted I mean using the sus-tremolo samples into a monophonic mode with a light and fast portamento to connect to the next note as opposed to using a real transition sample.


----------



## germancomponist

EgM said:


> I’m actually a big fan of EWHO, no criticizing here. I was discussing the differences with true vs scripted legato: by scripted I mean using the sus-tremolo samples into a monophonic mode with a light and fast portamento to connect to the next note as opposed to using a real transition sample.


Yeah, please do not take my criticism personally!
Whenever we use samples, we try to fake a real orchestra. With some libs we can do it well, with others not so ...... . I just don't like it when people get upset that the fake works better here and there than anywhere else. This library is great, and if you can master it, you can fake reality with it! ...


----------



## lettucehat

germancomponist said:


> With some libs we can do it well, with others not so ...... . I just don't like it when people get upset that the fake works better here and there than anywhere else.


Who even got upset? He was pointing out that it's scripted legato and what you can do to be able to tell.

Anyway yeah you'll be pretty busy on this forum if you feel the need to stink up literally any thread containing library criticism with this "real musicians" platitude. This is a forum for virtual instruments!


----------



## Sanjay 1880

There's a whole bunch of opus updates in the EW Installation center.


----------



## EgM

Sanjay 1880 said:


> There's a whole bunch of opus updates in the EW Installation center.



Thanks for the heads-up! 

Installation Center 1.4.1
Opus Software 1.0.1
and the rest of the Opus instruments as well

Edit:

Installed, I would’ve hoped this would have fixed the Opus Harp not showing up in Opus on Mac...


----------



## emilio_n

gfcgfc said:


> Does anyone know if there is a way to do the same thing with logic ? I can’t find the orchestrator midi output anywhere. Should it be activated in some way ?
> 
> thanks


Interested about it.
Is possible something similar on Logic?


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

hmm.... what's up with these gaps in the lower dynamics? Sounds like the legato in Hans Zimmer Strings when it first was released (now fixed! It's at least usable now)

Really brave to call this ground breaking. I think it's broken at this point.

Here are the original 1st violins. A totally different ball game, even the old versions from 10 years ago. This is from the updated Opus version though.


Both are just loaded out of the box, but reverb turned off.
Individual performances. I definitely didn't play the 18 vlns to sound bad - playing also can't cause such gaps, unless you deliberately create them with CC1.
I downloaded the update for 2 days and just checked it out before bed, hoping it would be good. Although no high expectations.. well, I didn't expect it to be broken 

EDIT: This was using the LITE patch. But the same gap in the lower dynamics occurs in the MAX patch


----------



## SlHarder

Sanjay 1880 said:


> There's a whole bunch of opus updates in the EW Installation center.


Here's the email I got from support announcing the updates:

Hello again everyone,

We've released new official updates for Opus 1.01, an installation Center 1.4.1, and there are Opus instrument updates available within the EW Installation Center 

That should fix:

White noise bugs with ComposerCloud X 
Missing Sample errors (though you might need to redownload the library in full to have that take effect)
GUI bugs with japanese/korean/chinese Windows Languages on Opus Libraries 
Extra mic position being activated from the 'mood' changes
Bug in MIDI Controller Mapping
Performance problem with switching to legato articulations
JSON files showing up in home directory
Hanging notes
Tune/Transposition functions 

As well as adding an updated manual. Again, thank you for helping us through this process of release - if you still are having any issues do let us know so we can address them with the developers.

Best,
Michael


----------



## Sanjay 1880

Thanks for sharing dis info.


----------



## Sanjay 1880

EgM said:


> Thanks for the heads-up!
> 
> Installation Center 1.4.1
> Opus Software 1.0.1
> and the rest of the Opus instruments as well
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Installed, I would’ve hoped this would have fixed the Opus Harp not showing up in Opus on Mac...


Opus Harp is still missing in opus browser.EW Solo Cello is missing.Most of the Orchestrator presets like ostinatos/scores dont load for me.


----------



## Sanjay 1880

Opus Harp is still missing in opus browser.EW Solo Cello is missing.Most of the Orchestrator presets like ostinatos/scores dont load for me.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

They fixed a couple things I reported - very quick turnaround!


----------



## SlHarder

Sanjay 1880 said:


> missing.Most of the Orchestrator presets like ostinatos/scores dont load for me.


Be sure to "leave a message" at the bottom of the page on this link, support sincerely wants to hear from you and sort out your problems.






How to Get Started with EastWest Libraries, Plugins & More


EastWest's Getting Started guides teach you the basics of ComposerCloud, how to use the Sound Data Hard Drives, EastWest Libraries, VST plugins & more.




www.soundsonline.com


----------



## Sanjay 1880

SlHarder said:


> Be sure to "leave a message" at the bottom of the page on this link, support sincerely wants to hear from you and sort out your problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to Get Started with EastWest Libraries, Plugins & More
> 
> 
> EastWest's Getting Started guides teach you the basics of ComposerCloud, how to use the Sound Data Hard Drives, EastWest Libraries, VST plugins & more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soundsonline.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Done.Thanks.


----------



## EgM

Sanjay 1880 said:


> Opus Harp is still missing in opus browser.EW Solo Cello is missing.Most of the Orchestrator presets like ostinatos/scores dont load for me.



I've applied the new updates, deleted Harp gold, Harp goldX and Harp Opus, then reinstalled all 3 and now they show up in Opus


----------



## Sanjay 1880

I got a quick reply from eastwest suggesting me to follow these instructions and it works for me perfectly.

In order for the Orchestrator to work/load up all instruments properly, you have to have the full Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition content installed (Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, Percussion, Solo Violin, Solo Cello, and Harp), and all 7 need to be showing up in the Browse > Libraries menu.

Do you have all of those libraries installed yet via the EW Installation Center, and if so, do you see all 7 of them in the Browse > Libraries ?

If you do see them all as installed through the EW Installation Center, but they are missing in the libraries menu, If you go to Opus' Settings (Gear Icon) > Install Product... and then choose the main folder of that library (for example, the EW Hollywood Strings Diamond folder), does it then show up under libraries.
Thankx.
Hope it helps y'all.


----------



## Olang

With the new update, the nag screen is still there for missing files, but the files are actually there this time and work on playback.

Also, the RAM usage dropped from 9 GB to 5 GB.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

If they fixed pretty much all of the reported problems within a week, I can't wait to see how good this thing will be after another a couple of months. Not only for HO but as the platform for whatever EW releases going forward.


----------



## jamie8

still can't get hollywood orchestrator to allow key range extensions lets say i want to extend the range down from c3 to c1.
works fine if you load from holly wood strings gold {as an example} you can edit key ranges
,but try to do this in orchestrator with one of their presets, anyone doesn't matter and you can't, also seems at least for me i can't edit groups in hollywood orchestrater,.. say i want to change one of the sounds to a different group ... nope... also ... manual says all these things , newest version but the editing script in the manual points ...in order to edit key groups they are on the left , they are actually below on the right


----------



## hauspe

wow, such impressively fast and efficient support. They fixed a bunch of my issues, mostly all works now like a charm. Could not test all, a few issues are still there e.g. an instrument suddenly playing louder after pressing a key. Also RAM usage is less, loading times really fast. Now I am going to test OPUS in Cubase, there were issues with the save times up to 14 seconds, hopefully they fixed it as well. Generally I am really impressed by EastWest and their new product line, chapeau.


----------



## Markrs

I'm still having problems with missing files. Also in the installation centre I keep installing the Goldx libraries but they always end up showing up in the installation centre as missing data.


----------



## Toecutter

Markrs said:


> I'm still having problems with missing files. Also in the installation centre I keep installing the Goldx libraries but they always end up showing up in the installation centre as missing data.


I was having missing files issues and support sorted me in no time, I had to install a beta version or something and that fixed it for me.


----------



## Markrs

Toecutter said:


> I was having missing files issues and support sorted me in no time, I had to install a beta version or something and that fixed it for me.


Tried the beta version that was posted on here, and sadly it didn't fix the issue. I hoped the recent update would solve the issue. At the moment I am basically downloading them twice as I can download them when I select a patch. It seems to be only the Goldx (close mic) which is the issue.


----------



## hauspe

Markrs said:


> Tried the beta version that was posted on here, and sadly it didn't fix the issue. I hoped the recent update would solve the issue. At the moment I am basically downloading them twice as I can download them when I select a patch. It seems to be only the Goldx (close mic) which is the issue.


I suggest to delete the appropriate EWHO folders and installing them from scratch.


----------



## AndyP

Yeah, the update did something. Now only the main mic is loaded in classic mode, which makes the whole thing much better.


----------



## gst98

EgM said:


> I've been doing scripted legato since the early 90s, these are scripted legato.
> 
> If you don't believe me, raise the time knob next to it to the max and you will hear the fake portamento kicking in.


...it's like talking to a brick wall. Do you even have OPUS?

If you are so experienced then you should easily be able to tell between applying the scripted port/legato and the MONO TRUE LEGATO. These are real legato intervals grafted to any sustain.
Not really sure why you're so set on misinforming everyone.


----------



## TopCat

It looks like regular Hollywood Orchestra is not for sale anymore. Has anybody else picked up on this?


----------



## Geomir

TopCat said:


> It looks like regular Hollywood Orchestra is not for sale anymore. Has anybody else picked up on this?


Yes that's true. EWHO doesn't exist as a product anymore. All of us who don't update will have to stick with a legacy library running in a legacy player.

On my EW Installation Center, my ancient EWQL Symphonic Orchestra, Symphonic Choirs, Ra, Silk and Gypsy are all categorized under "Installed Libraries". But my newer EWHO is categorized under "Older Libraries"!


----------



## TopCat

Geomir said:


> Yes that's true. EWHO doesn't exist as a product anymore. All of us who don't update will have to stick with a legacy library running in a legacy player.
> 
> On my EW Installation Center, my ancient EWQL Symphonic Orchestra, Symphonic Choirs, Ra, Silk and Gypsy are all categorized under "Installed Libraries". But my newer EWHO is categorized under "Older Libraries"!


Well what sucks is that I'm still using HO gold and was looking forward to upgrade to Diamond at some point for $200... can't do that anymore. So I'll probably migrate away from EW.


----------



## Geomir

TopCat said:


> Well what sucks is that I'm still using HO gold and was looking forward to upgrade to Diamond at some point for $200... can't do that anymore. So I'll probably migrate away from EW.


It sucks also for me. Especially the part that I am prompted to update like 10 x times per day all the new updates from EW Installation Center for a program that I am not licensed to use (Opus Software).

Maybe you can think to upgrade in the future. Anyway if you check the last... [several] pages of this thread, Opus is still an unplayable buggy mess of missing files, white noises, that can bring 12-core CPUs to their knees. Maybe you can get it in the future for a nice price, after all the bugs are fixed.

Of course the competition is huge, the choices for modern orchestral libraries literally infinite, so I understand if you migrate away from EW.


----------



## Piotrek K.

TopCat said:


> It looks like regular Hollywood Orchestra is not for sale anymore. Has anybody else picked up on this?


So HO got discontinued without even slight warning? Now I can't upgrade my Gold libraries or even "complete my bundle" to later upgrade to Opus? Awesome, thanks EW, one decision less to make! xD


----------



## sundrowned

TopCat said:


> It looks like regular Hollywood Orchestra is not for sale anymore. Has anybody else picked up on this?


It must have happened in the last few days because I upgraded from original strings gold to diamond on the 21st. 

Would have been nice if they'd given warning.


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

Update still hasn't fixed the sustain pedal in Orchestrator :(


----------



## Geomir

BronzeOrbiter said:


> Update still hasn't fixed the sustain pedal in Orchestrator :(


Just be patient (I wouldn't be in your place)! 

It's obvious that after the fiasco of the initial release that never happened and the lack of any information that followed the next months, in the end they rushed and released a beta version. They have tones of problems to fix for thousands of users.

Their support is very good and they reply same day, so most of the main problems will be fixed soon (hopefully).


----------



## AndyP

Geomir said:


> Maybe you can think to upgrade in the future. Anyway if you check the last... [several] pages of this thread, Opus is still an unplayable buggy mess of missing files, white noises, that can bring 12-core CPUs to their knees. Maybe you can get it in the future for a nice price, after all the bugs are fixed.
> 
> Of course the competition is huge, the choices for modern orchestral libraries literally infinite, so I understand if you migrate away from EW.


Dear Geomir, this is not correct. I guess for most (like for me too) Opus runs very well and stable. The last update has fixed a few bugs and increased the usability significantly. EW is acting very fast here and I wish some other "big" manufacturers would act as fast.

That there are still problems here and there after a brand new release is I think pretty normal.

EW has created what I would call a new benchmark here. This is already a fat package with many very useful features.


----------



## cqd

Piotrek K. said:


> So HO got discontinued without even slight warning? Now I can't upgrade my Gold libraries or even "complete my bundle" to later upgrade to Opus? Awesome, thanks EW, one decision less to make! xD


That was always going to happen..

EW said you would be better off upgrading before opus was out..everyone complained about that too..


----------



## cqd

Yeah, working fine here too..


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

Geomir said:


> Just be patient (I wouldn't be in your place)!
> 
> It's obvious that after the fiasco of the initial release that never happened and the lack of any information that followed the next months, in the end they rushed and released a beta version. They have tones of problems to fix for thousands of users.
> 
> Their support is very good and they reply same day, so most of the main problems will be fixed soon (hopefully).


I must praise them on their support - you are right, it is very good in my experience.


----------



## Piotrek K.

cqd said:


> EW said you would be better off upgrading before opus was out


----------



## cqd

Diamonds aren't forever..


----------



## Geomir

AndyP said:


> Dear Geomir, this is not correct. I guess for most (like for me too) Opus runs very well and stable. The last update has fixed a few bugs and increased the usability significantly. EW is acting very fast here and I wish some other "big" manufacturers would act as fast.
> 
> That there are still problems here and there after a brand new release is I think pretty normal.
> 
> EW has created what I would call a new benchmark here. This is already a fat package with many very useful features.


To be honest I cannot recall anything like that in the recent past. Most libraries from big companies are released with just a few minor bugs (if any). Not with wrong mics, white noise and missing files.

I wouldn't excuse them only because it is a huge game-changing product. When i.e. Sonuscore released TOC and TOC2, their Orchestrator was working perfectly from day 1. To be honest, I don't recall any single bug.

It is obvious to me that they felt push to rush it. That they didn't want to delay it any longer. That they risked. And the results are punishing for so many users with top notch computer systems. Hopefully most things they will be sorted fast. Their support is excellent.


----------



## hauspe

Geomir said:


> To be honest I cannot recall anything like that in the recent past. Most libraries from big companies are released with just a few minor bugs (if any). Not with wrong mics, white noise and missing files.
> 
> I wouldn't excuse them only because it is a huge game-changing product. When i.e. Sonuscore released TOC and TOC2, their Orchestrator was working perfectly from day 1. To be honest, I don't recall any single bug.
> 
> It is obvious to me that they felt push to rush it. That they didn't want to delay it any longer. That they risked. And the results are punishing for so many users with top notch computer systems. Hopefully most things they will be sorted fast. Their support is excellent.


To be honest, EW is pushing their support to the limits, within hours they solved tons of issues - wow. OPUS is almost great and will be better. OPUS and EWHO is an alternative to the big well known player in the business, especially when it comes to orchestra libraries. I was VERY disappointed about their marketing strategy, about their lack of communication, about everything you can imagine. But now we have something in the pipeline which is gorgeous and versatile, I am convinced that EW will fiddle out the rest of the (few) problems soon.


----------



## gst98

Geomir said:


> To be honest I cannot recall anything like that in the recent past. Most libraries from big companies are released with just a few minor bugs (if any). Not with wrong mics, white noise and missing files.
> 
> I wouldn't excuse them only because it is a huge game-changing product. When i.e. Sonuscore released TOC and TOC2, their Orchestrator was working perfectly from day 1. To be honest, I don't recall any single bug.
> 
> It is obvious to me that they felt push to rush it. That they didn't want to delay it any longer. That they risked. And the results are punishing for so many users with top notch computer systems. Hopefully most things they will be sorted fast. Their support is excellent.


BSS mic merge still doesn't work (6 months!). JXL took months to be stable and I had to keep re-adding it. My abbey road keeps uninstalling itself. Even the otherwise brilliant Synchron player has been crashing on me recently. 
Not only does the competition have very serious bugs on release, but they are very slow to fix them and the result is a comprised version of Kontakt. OPUS is finally something superior to Kontakt (as a player, not your own sampler ofc). I disagree with the idea that OPUS is a CPU hog, I have the very opposite impression, and it now purges properly.

The white noise thing _is_ really bad and has scared the s*** out of me because it is so loud. Wouldn't be surprised if some may have hurt their hearing. Why missing samples can't just make no noise is a mystery, but re-downloading samples fixing it.


----------



## Geomir

gst98 said:


> The white noise thing _is_ really bad and has scared the s*** out of me because it is so loud.


LOL I may have permanent tinnitus from such an occasion in the past! This really sucks if it happened to you with your headphones!

Then I must have been very lucky so far, because I have never encountered any serious problem with Synchron Player or any other player (including Play 6). I mean, each and every library I ever bought, I was able to download it, install it and run it without any problem. After these "obvious initial steps", yes you may find some minor bugs, problematic legato phasing, some crushes, some wrong notes, a couple of instruments missing, etc...

But for the first time I realized that for so many users, even these "obvious initial steps" are not for granted. That's why I didn't consider Opus under the umbrella of a _"Normal release - these things happen to all the major releases of big companies"_.

I feel sympathy for EW's amazing support team, that they are fixing everything in just a few days. I think they deserve a salary increase (or at least a good bonus for the last weeks).


----------



## cqd

Hans zimmer strings still doesn't work..


----------



## AndyP

Geomir said:


> LOL I may have permanent tinnitus from such an occasion in the past! This really sucks if it happened to you with your headphones!
> 
> Then I must have been very lucky so far, because I have never encountered any serious problem with Synchron Player or any other player (including Play 6). I mean, each and every library I ever bought, I was able to download it, install it and run it without any problem. After these "obvious initial steps", yes you may find some minor bugs, problematic legato phasing, some crushes, some wrong notes, a couple of instruments missing, etc...
> 
> But for the first time I realized that for so many users, even these "obvious initial steps" are not for granted. That's why I didn't consider Opus under the umbrella of a _"Normal release - these things happen to all the major releases of big companies"_.
> 
> I feel sympathy for EW's amazing support team, that they are fixing everything in just a few days. I think they deserve a salary increase (or at least a good bonus for the last weeks).


I don't think you really know what you are writing about. If you draw that conclusion for yourself personally, ok. I think many who have purchased OPUS see it differently.

And for those who still have problems there will be a solution.

There were clearly more problematic releases.


----------



## Chungus

It's pretty weird that EW still hasn't released a walkthrough for anything but the orchestrator. In lieu of it, this one is the most in-depth I've found:


Gotta say, despite it's - shall we say, troubled release, HOOPUS is looking pretty stellar. My only complaint from what I'm seeing is that CC11 controls both expression and dynamic, which I think is silly. I'd also like to see a dynamic slider in the UI, like other players have, but that's a nitpick.

Will definitely be picking HOOPUS up.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

To those that wanted to upgrade to Diamond - might it be worth contacting Support asking if it is still an option citing the lack of notification of the removal? I am sure they will still have the licenses it having only been a few days. Might be a no-go, but surely worth the ask?


----------



## EgM

gst98 said:


> ...it's like talking to a brick wall. Do you even have OPUS?
> 
> If you are so experienced then you should easily be able to tell between applying the scripted port/legato and the MONO TRUE LEGATO. These are real legato intervals grafted to any sustain.
> Not really sure why you're so set on misinforming everyone.



You were talking about the trem patch having "True Legato" which I corrected and said it didn't, except you were talking about the 18 violins and I was talking about the v1/v2/va/vc. For this I apologize.

But why can't you discuss a subject without being so rude?


----------



## Geomir

AndyP said:


> I don't think you really know what you are writing about. If you draw that conclusion for yourself personally, ok. I think many who have purchased OPUS see it differently.
> 
> And for those who still have problems there will be a solution.
> 
> There were clearly more problematic releases.


What exactly do you mean I don't know what I am writing about? So all these posts here are fake? Of course I drew this conclusion for myself, since I have never seen so many pages of problems, from senior members with great knowledge of music and technology.

Or do you consider it a success that "It's an OK release, for some people it worked", ignoring that it's not working for so many others?

Can you name me a more problematic release please? Now I am really curious.


----------



## Geomir

Lewis Emblack said:


> To those that wanted to upgrade to Diamond - might it be worth contacting Support asking if it is still an option citing the lack of notification of the removal? I am sure they will still have the licenses it having only been a few days. Might be a no-go, but surely worth the ask?


+1

Now that's an excellent idea. I.e. in Best Service, you can still buy the legacy EWHO Gold or Diamond. I added both of them to my cart, but of course I couldn't continue from there to see what will happen.

They don't sell any upgrade of course, but it shows that there might be still legal licenses available for sale. Combine this with the fact that the support of EW is really helpful and among the best, and the result is obvious: I would totally give it a try if I was interested.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Geomir said:


> What exactly do you mean I don't know what I am writing about? So all these posts here are fake? Of course I drew this conclusion for myself, since I have never seen so many pages of problems, from senior members with great knowledge of music and technology.
> 
> Or do you consider it a success that "It's an OK release, for some people it worked", ignoring that it's not working for so many others?
> 
> Can you name me a more problematic release please? Now I am really curious.


I think what he is suggesting is that while you consider this a poor release in general and that those it works for are the lucky few, that you were likely one of the lucky few with the aforementioned releases that many still have problems with, hence don't regard them as such. I may be wrong and don't want to speak on his behalf, but that is how I read it.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Geomir said:


> +1
> 
> Now that's an excellent idea. I.e. in Best Service, you can still buy the legacy EWHO Gold or Diamond. I added both of them to my cart, but of course I couldn't continue from there to see what will happen.
> 
> They don't sell any upgrade of course, but it shows that there might be still legal licenses available for sale. Combine this with the fact that the support of EW is really helpful and among the best, and the result is obvious: I would totally give it a try if I was interested.


Both my friend and I purchased Hollywood Silver from Everyplugin end of 2019, and that had been missing from the EW website for a long while, which is why I was thinking it might still be an option.


----------



## Geomir

Lewis Emblack said:


> I think what he is suggesting is that while you consider this a poor release in general and that those it works for are the lucky few, that you were likely one of the lucky few with the aforementioned releases that many still have problems with, hence don't regard them as such. I may be wrong and don't want to speak on his behalf, but that is how I read it.


OK got it now! Even if I felt dizziness reading it without a pause, my English was improved by 100%.


----------



## ennbr

Geomir said:


> OK got it now! Even if I felt dizziness reading it without a pause, my English was improved by 100%


Don't forget to take into consideration the vast number of customers that are not having problems and don't post there successes in forums. Other than a few tiny problems I've been running since day one and enjoying my purchase of OPUS.


----------



## gst98

EgM said:


> You were talking about the trem patch having "True Legato" which I corrected and said it didn't, except you were talking about the 18 violins and I was talking about the v1/v2/va/vc.
> 
> I would seriously work on your tone, why can't you discuss a subject without being so rude?


That was a screenshot from the Cello KS patch. I am yet to see a HWO KS patch of melodic instruments that doesn't have it. And I never said trems have true legato. What I said was every sustain articulation has mono true legato ready to graft on to them. So, you can have trems, with true legatos grafted.

lol you laughed at my reply, and I have told you three times, to which you just flat out told me I was wrong. What did you expect? Until that last post, I remained polite despite you rudely dismissing me several times. If you wanted a discussion you could have asked me if I was sure, or how I was doing, or where it was said in the manual - instead you told me you were more experienced and therefore I should blindly take your word as gospel. Telling people they are wrong is a good way to start an argument, not a discussion.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

As I said in a previous post, I have been lucky in that I haven't had any real issues, especially considering my system is 10 years old now and far lower spec than a lot of people that have been having problems. I don't envy developers at all - just look at games releases to see how many issues there can be, especially the more advanced something is - even something like Cyberpunk 2077 which has been a notorious release, worked fine for many people. OPUS is more advanced than any other player, Kontakt included, so I am not surprised if it has had more teething issues than they did. A lot of them did seem to be MAC only, but with so many versions and editions of OS's these days, as well as vary conditions of general PC health (as in the registry, pathways, etc), trying to get it working 100% in every case must be near impossible. I have had that many issues with all kinds of software in the past, I make sure mine is always as close to running like a fresh install as I can get. Maybe that helped, maybe it didn't, but I would be very interested to see what causes the common issues, and considering how quickly things are getting sorted, there must be some consistent trouble areas.


----------



## AndyP

Lewis Emblack said:


> I think what he is suggesting is that while you consider this a poor release in general and that those it works for are the lucky few, that you were likely one of the lucky few with the aforementioned releases that many still have problems with, hence don't regard them as such. I may be wrong and don't want to speak on his behalf, but that is how I read it.


You nailed it!


----------



## Geomir

AndyP said:


> You nailed it!


Yes my English are surely improved after that one.  

But still I see no example of a more problematic major release.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Geomir said:


> Yes my English are surely improved after that one.
> 
> But still I see no example of a more problematic major release.


JXL, BSS, BBCSO to start (and I own and enjoy two of those)


----------



## Horvath

Hello,
I don't have any product from EastWest yet but I'm very interested in this one through Composer Cloud X.
I have two questions: has anyone noticed a real improvement in CPU consumption since the recent update of HOOPUS? I'm working on an old Mac Pro from 2010 (10.14.6; 3.46 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon; RAM: 48 GB 1333 MHz DDR3) and I'm wondering if my machine will be able to handle such a program. EW reports a "Minimum System" of "CPU: Quad-core (four cores), running at 2.7 GHz (or above), RAM: 16 GBI " and "Recommended System" of "CPU: Octa-core (eight cores), running at 2.7 GHz (or above), RAM: 32 GB or more »… 
I also see that several other people are interested in this question, but if anyone has an idea of how to handle MIDI export into other MIDI tracks in Logic…
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Evans

ALittleNightMusic said:


> JXL, BSS, BBCSO to start (and I own and enjoy two of those)


Yep. I spent my first ~six months not being able to use BBCSO _at all_ because of a slew of those Error 3 or 4 issues that the Spitfire plugin kept throwing at me (it's fine now; haven't had an issue in several months).


----------



## Wabashprof

hauspe said:


> To be honest, EW is pushing their support to the limits, within hours they solved tons of issues - wow. OPUS is almost great and will be better. OPUS and EWHO is an alternative to the big well known player in the business, especially when it comes to orchestra libraries. I was VERY disappointed about their marketing strategy, about their lack of communication, about everything you can imagine. But now we have something in the pipeline which is gorgeous and versatile, I am convinced that EW will fiddle out the rest of the (few) problems soon.


I want to echo hauspe's appreciation of EW support. I don't mean to minimize any continuing issues experienced by others, but I have nothing but praise for the communication and help I've received since submitting a support ticket 3 days ago. 

Yesterday Michael Pluebell from support spent an hour remotely logged into my system and repairing my installation. This morning I received an email thanking me (and others on the To: list) for helping them track down and solve problems, and he noted the release of the updated Opus others have mentioned. FWIW, I'm a CCX EDU subscriber, and I think that base of users was having particular problems with missing samples.


----------



## Evans

+1 on overall positive experiences with EastWest's Support staff. 

While one issue was disappointingly swiped away with little care, another resulted in some very thorough conversations about VEPro servers. I got the impression that the Support rep genuinely wanted to learn about my usage instead of considering it a fringe case among their typical subscriber.


----------



## M4T

Horvath said:


> Hello,
> I don't have any product from EastWest yet but I'm very interested in this one through Composer Cloud X.
> I have two questions: has anyone noticed a real improvement in CPU consumption since the recent update of HOOPUS? I'm working on an old Mac Pro from 2010 (10.14.6; 3.46 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon; RAM: 48 GB 1333 MHz DDR3) and I'm wondering if my machine will be able to handle such a program. EW reports a "Minimum System" of "CPU: Quad-core (four cores), running at 2.7 GHz (or above), RAM: 16 GBI " and "Recommended System" of "CPU: Octa-core (eight cores), running at 2.7 GHz (or above), RAM: 32 GB or more »…
> I also see that several other people are interested in this question, but if anyone has an idea of how to handle MIDI export into other MIDI tracks in Logic…
> Thanks in advance.


What I can tell is that Opus seems to be more RAM and CPU friendly than Play. I have an old system I7 6700k, 32 Gb RAM and I usually have >50 instances of Play in my tracks, no issue ...


----------



## MauroPantin

I think it's commendable of them to provide updates and bug fixes in such record time after releasing. Most other developers take months for these kinds of things.


----------



## Toecutter

Markrs said:


> Tried the beta version that was posted on here, and sadly it didn't fix the issue. I hoped the recent update would solve the issue. At the moment I am basically downloading them twice as I can download them when I select a patch. It seems to be only the Goldx (close mic) which is the issue.


wow that sucks Mark, so it is a problem with the Gold download itself? I heard on FB some guys had to redownload everything because stuff was corrupted on EW end.


----------



## Markrs

Toecutter said:


> wow that sucks Mark, so it is a problem with the Gold download itself? I heard on FB some guys had to redownload everything because stuff was corrupted on EW end.


It might be fixed it the newest update. Last night I did a full delete and reinstall hoping the Opus Beta that was on here would help resolve problems, but sadly it didn't. But we had a update this morning and I did a test with the strings, deleting everything and reinstall and that worked, though I had to do the actual Opus string sample library twice as it said the data was missing. So now doing the rest of the libraries.

What is nice to say about EastWest is that everyone seems to have had fantastic customer support from them, and they are fixing the bugs at pace, which is a credit to them. Fingers crossed these new updates have fixed the missing samples issue.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Evans said:


> +1 on overall positive experiences with EastWest's Support staff.


Yep! And big kudos to Michael Pluebell! He personally responds to emails and gets things resolved.


----------



## Braveheart

So EW new motto is: « Forget about communications on anonymous music forums. We speak directly to our consumers. »


----------



## cqd

Braveheart said:


> So EW new motto is: « Forget about communications on anonymous music forums. We speak directly to our consumers. »


If you'll remember, QL was here and just got abuse..


----------



## gsilbers

Im sure page 291 won't do any good but still would like if it would be possible to remove certain instruments and its sample content to not have 1tb of stuff I don't need. 

or a way just to choose the bread and butter articulations and 3 mic positions. 

having so many overlapping instruments is kinda of a pita. Spicc powerful laptop system while traveling patch. legato sordino transition for that one time trying to do JW stuff patch , 
marcato 6rr or 9rr but the extra ones have something special patch 

soooo many... 

and the gold w 2 mic is only cloudx. and still has sooo many articulations. 

I would like a version of this product that's just bread and butter articulations and 3 mic positions. something like audio imperia nucleus but w the orchestrator app. 
and I wouldn't mind paying what I just paid for the diamond upgrade.


----------



## Evans

Braveheart said:


> So EW new motto is: « Forget about communications on anonymous music forums. We speak directly to our consumers. »


_"We put the brunt of customer communication on our Support staff, whose experience is made worse by our Marketing and Products teams."_


----------



## Toecutter

Braveheart said:


> So EW new motto is: « Forget about communications on anonymous music forums. We speak directly to our consumers. »


Fine with me! Support experience has been nothing short of remarkable


----------



## szczaw

From zero to hero ?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

gsilbers said:


> sooo many articulations.


Actually, you’d be surprised. EW has cut a lot of fat, it’s very streamlined and well organized now.


----------



## Crossroads

Anyone remember when Coca Cola ''changed'' their taste?


----------



## Markrs

Sadly Opus still won't fully install for me. Now in the 4th full download. Each time I still have missing files. Strange how some have had this problem and others have not, normally these types of bugs would be more consistent. I can't think there is anything about my system that would cause this issue (Win 10).


----------



## cqd

Markrs said:


> Sadly Opus still won't fully install for me. Now in the 4th full download. Each time I still have missing files. Strange how some have had this problem and others have not, normally these types of bugs would be more consistent. I can't think there is anything about my system that would cause this issue (Win 10).



Can you check your download and installation paths?..I was having issues around the solo violin and cello..they refused to install where they were supposed to, but I just moved them and they were OK..


----------



## gsilbers

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Actually, you’d be surprised. EW has cut a lot of fat, it’s very streamlined and well organized now.



I don't understand. I had diamond and now I have opus. ITs about the same. Tons of random semi useless & too many options patches still. 
is there options that I missed?


----------



## MauroPantin

So... I have a new file on my OS drive, some kind of log for Opus. Currently almost 15 gigs in size, no joke. And then a different one with another 4 gigs on top.






In other news, CPU usage is a bit high, and there seems to be no difference between setting up a multi or using several different instances of OPUS. One record-armed instance of OPUS chugs 14% RT CPU usage, and then for each new one on top of that one you get about a 2% increase... I will continue to experiment to see if I can get that down. If anybody else is on Reaper and getting something different I'll appreciate it if you chime in.

@gsilbers Thinking the same thing. As comprehensive as HO is, I am always thinking "I wonder how much can I get away with using just the legato patch here?"


----------



## SlHarder

The team that wrote the Opus documentation did an excellent job. The contents are presented in an organized structure that is easy to assimilate. Good use of screenshots and color coding to identify topics being discussed.






How to Get Started with EastWest Libraries, Plugins & More


EastWest's Getting Started guides teach you the basics of ComposerCloud, how to use the Sound Data Hard Drives, EastWest Libraries, VST plugins & more.




www.soundsonline.com


----------



## Markrs

cqd said:


> Can you check your download and installation paths?..I was having issues around the solo violin and cello..they refused to install where they were supposed to, but I just moved them and they were OK..


I have 2 paths with the one where HO Opus installed is the default. Based on your experience I have just removed the other path, where the non HO libraries are stored there. Fingers crossed it fixes things


----------



## gst98

Markrs said:


> Sadly Opus still won't fully install for me. Now in the 4th full download. Each time I still have missing files. Strange how some have had this problem and others have not, normally these types of bugs would be more consistent. I can't think there is anything about my system that would cause this issue (Win 10).


Are you getting a missing samples dialogue? if so press the cloud icon, that seems to work for installing missing content.


----------



## Markrs

gst98 said:


> Are you getting a missing samples dialogue? if so press the cloud icon, that seems to work for installing missing content.


Yep I get the missing sample dialogue and I did use the cloud download option but as I get it for nearly every patch it, was becoming difficult to go through them all. I hoped the recent updates would solve the issue. I don't doubt it will get solved in the end, just a bit frustrating.


----------



## cqd

Markrs said:


> I have 2 paths with the one where HO Opus installed is the default. Based on your experience I have just removed the other path, where the non HO libraries are stored there. Fingers crossed it fixes things


Try deleting both, restart it, and add 1 again..I still had to move them I think though, but they installed after deleting and re adding the paths..


----------



## M4T

gsilbers said:


> I don't understand. I had diamond and now I have opus. ITs about the same. Tons of random semi useless & too many options patches still.
> is there options that I missed?


Somehow this is the EW "touch" compared to many other libraries. You get tons of articulations. When they issued HO they wanted to cover everything. A good knowledge of names structure help. However you have to have a Huuuuge SSD to accomodate all this stuff ...


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Markrs said:


> Yep I get the missing sample dialogue and I did use the cloud download option but as I get it for nearly every patch it, was becoming difficult to go through them all. I hoped the recent updates would solve the issue. I don't doubt it will get solved in the end, just a bit frustrating.


I had that issue with solo violin and support sent me instructions that fixed it.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

MauroPantin said:


> As comprehensive as HO is, I am always thinking "I wonder how much can I get away with using just the legato patch here?"


You can literally say that about any library. But when you do want to tweak the sound of the line, most libraries don’t have many options. With Opus, you have a lot to choose from to ensure the line sounds exactly as you’d like it to. Start with leg slur and go from there.


----------



## Markrs

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I had that issue with solo violin and support sent me instructions that fixed it.


I might have to contact support. Just strange it is happening for all the Opus libraries whereas for others it seems like it was more limited to a particular library


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Markrs said:


> I might have to contact support. Just strange it is happening for all the Opus libraries whereas for others it seems like it was more limited to a particular library


You haven’t contacted support yet? Why? It’s free! And they know a lot more about Opus than anybody here.


----------



## Markrs

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You haven’t contacted support yet? Why? It’s free! And they know a lot more about Opus than anybody here.


As a few had contacted them I hoped the fixes were in the new updates. Just send a message to them for support, hopefully I will get it all sorted.


----------



## gst98

Markrs said:


> Yep I get the missing sample dialogue and I did use the cloud download option but as I get it for nearly every patch it, was becoming difficult to go through them all. I hoped the recent updates would solve the issue. I don't doubt it will get solved in the end, just a bit frustrating.


I had to do it for all of the brass. I thought it would take ages but it went fairly quickly.


----------



## Lazeez

Hi folks, I've been following this thread as best I could (a lot of pages!) and have a question. I want all the mic positions but I don't have the hard drive space for all the 24 bit samples. 16 bit is good enough. If I purchase the Diamond edition or subscribe to ComposerCloud Plus, would I be able to choose to download the 16 bit samples (242GB) as opposed to the 24 bit samples (1TB!)? Might be worth mentioning that I don't own the Play version so I won't be taking the upgrade path.

Thanks!


----------



## Olang

Lazeez said:


> Hi folks, I've been following this thread as best I could (a lot of pages!) and have a question. I want all the mic positions but I don't have the hard drive space for all the 24 bit samples. 16 bit is good enough. If I purchase the Diamond edition or subscribe to ComposerCloud Plus, would I be able to choose to download the 16 bit samples (242GB) as opposed to the 24 bit samples (1TB!)? Might be worth mentioning that I don't own the Play version so I won't be taking the upgrade path.
> 
> Thanks!


No. A good middle ground is a CCX subscription, which gives you 16 bit with mid + close mic position at 242 GB.


----------



## MauroPantin

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You can literally say that about any library. But when you do want to tweak the sound of the line, most libraries don’t have many options. With Opus, you have a lot to choose from to ensure the line sounds exactly as you’d like it to. Start with leg slur and go from there.


It was not meant as a slight to the library. I absolute love HO for it's versatility. But there are a few patches I don't use often, and I would much rather use that hard drive space for something else. 

For instance, I would love to be able to have only the divisi string sections installed, which is what I use most of the time, and not also have to devote space for the the full sections, which I rarely touch. 

If there was some way to partially install it without doing the download on demand thing (as cool as that is for a single instrument, downloading an 80 gig chunk of library that way is just not practical) it would be awesome.


----------



## awaey

Piotrek K. said:


> So HO got discontinued without even slight warning? Now I can't upgrade my Gold libraries or even "complete my bundle" to later upgrade to Opus? Awesome, thanks EW, one decision less to make! xD


 I Checked on everyPlugin.com I Didn't' find any EW Library .look like they removed from every where ,,


----------



## Yury Tikhomirov

Well, I have read all 293 pages of the thread, but didn’t find an answer for an upgrade path I should consider in order to upgrade HS/HB/HWW Gold and HS/HB/HWW Diamond licenses (all as separate ilok licenses) I have. Any hints will be greatly appreciated! (support is silent and faq is not covering the case)


----------



## Piotrek K.

Lewis Emblack said:


> To those that wanted to upgrade to Diamond - might it be worth contacting Support asking if it is still an option citing the lack of notification of the removal? I am sure they will still have the licenses it having only been a few days. Might be a no-go, but surely worth the ask?



I contacted them out of curiosity. Here's the answer:

We have discontinued the non-opus versions so there's no longer an upgrade path for that library.


----------



## Dex

Yury Tikhomirov said:


> Well, I have read all 293 pages of the thread, but didn’t find an answer for an upgrade path I should consider in order to upgrade HS/HB/HWW Gold and HS/HB/HWW Diamond licenses (all as separate ilok licenses) I have. Any hints will be greatly appreciated! (support is silent and faq is not covering the case)


Since you don't own HW Perc I don't think you have an upgrade path. You need to buy a new license.


----------



## lettucehat

Yury Tikhomirov said:


> Well, I have read all 293 pages of the thread, but didn’t find an answer for an upgrade path I should consider in order to upgrade HS/HB/HWW Gold and HS/HB/HWW Diamond licenses (all as separate ilok licenses) I have. Any hints will be greatly appreciated! (support is silent and faq is not covering the case)


That's the thing, there's no good answer because it's either full orchestra or nothing.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

gsilbers said:


> I don't understand. I had diamond and now I have opus. ITs about the same. Tons of random semi useless & too many options patches still.
> is there options that I missed?


Hmmmm, I'm on CCX, which is definitely slimmed down from the original Gold. I also have HS Diamond though, and aside from the Divisi and bow changes, the patch listings were pretty similar.


----------



## ChazC

So, now it's been out for a few days, most users are getting to grips with it & EW have been actively fixing bugs can I raise a practical question at this point (& no, it's not to see if we're going to be playing Stone'enge tomorrow night!) - what value now would you put on the upgrade pricing?

We all thought $495 for the diamond upgrade was, if not extortionate certainly on the high side; just wondered if anyone opinions have changed on that?


----------



## essay

Is opus apple M1 ready?


----------



## Lewis Emblack

MauroPantin said:


> It was not meant as a slight to the library. I absolute love HO for it's versatility. But there are a few patches I don't use often, and I would much rather use that hard drive space for something else.
> 
> For instance, I would love to be able to have only the divisi string sections installed, which is what I use most of the time, and not also have to devote space for the the full sections, which I rarely touch.
> 
> If there was some way to partially install it without doing the download on demand thing (as cool as that is for a single instrument, downloading an 80 gig chunk of library that way is just not practical) it would be awesome.


Maybe you can just delete the articulations you don't want? I know people used to do that in Play, and seeing as you can do the download on demand now it seems like it is designed to be used in an "only what you need" fashion. If you want to be sure you are not going to bork it, obv get in touch to ask, but I really doubt there will be a difference between downloading bits that you want, and downloading it all and deleting the bits you don't 🤔


----------



## szczaw

ChazC said:


> We all thought $495 for the diamond upgrade was, if not extortionate certainly on the high side; just wondered if anyone opinions have changed on that?


USD dropped a bit in value. You saved 10 bucks by waiting. Edit: I did, you lost 10 bucks in Australia.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

G


ChazC said:


> So, now it's been out for a few days, most users are getting to grips with it & EW have been actively fixing bugs can I raise a practical question at this point (& no, it's not to see if we're going to be playing Stone'enge tomorrow night!) - what value now would you put on the upgrade pricing?
> 
> We all thought $495 for the diamond upgrade was, if not extortionate certainly on the high side; just wondered if anyone opinions have changed on that?


Good one! David St. Hubbins would approve!

I own HOD....but also have CCX. I personally really like the Opus CCX version, the mic selections are ideal for my taste. Upgrading to opus Diamond for $495? IMO, not worth it. I would pay $299.


----------



## ChazC

szczaw said:


> USD dropped a bit in value. You saved 10 bucks by waiting. Edit: I did, you lost 10 bucks in Australia.


It was 647AUD at the exchange rate on release day- $637 currently. A whole $10 better off!


----------



## Mike Fox

For early adopters of OPUS, I’d love to hear the music you’ve written so far! Anyone wanna post their demos?


----------



## szczaw

ChazC said:


> It was 647AUD at the exchange rate on release day- $637 currently. A whole $10 better off!


Oh good, I thought AUD dropped relative to USD. I don't like the upgrade price either. Maybe I can squeeze a few bucks more waiting


----------



## dsharpie

Yury Tikhomirov said:


> Well, I have read all 293 pages of the thread, but didn’t find an answer for an upgrade path I should consider in order to upgrade HS/HB/HWW Gold and HS/HB/HWW Diamond licenses (all as separate ilok licenses) I have. Any hints will be greatly appreciated! (support is silent and faq is not covering the case)


The FAQ on the EW site says you need four of the 7 products to qualify for the upgrade to OPUS (4 orchestra sections, solo violin, solo cello, and Harp). So, technically, you could get the upgrade to Opus with your 3 HO sections + any 1 of the other 3 I mentioned.


----------



## ChazC

I think I've more or less 'resigned' myself to going ahead with it tbh. With EW's track record (& the actual dropping of the original HWO library completely) I have no certainties that the upgrade pricing will get any better or indeed be even available after a certain amount of time in any case.

Only other thing to wait for would be a sale price on the whole Opus but then it'd only be around the $500 mark in any case (after a year or 18 months at best).

I like what I've seen & heard so far - certainly an improvement over the Play engine - but it just seems an awful lot of money for what you get and also it does stick in my gut a little about giving EW any more money than I already have over the years. Tech support might be on the ball but marketing and customer loyalty support are some of the worst I've witnessed from any company, not just in the music industry.


----------



## dsharpie

lettucehat said:


> That's the thing, there's no good answer because it's either full orchestra or nothing.


Any 4 of the 7 products in OPUS will qualify (incl solo violin, cello, harp).


----------



## lettucehat

dsharpie said:


> Any 4 of the 7 products in OPUS will qualify (incl solo violin, cello, harp).


Right - I'm just speaking more to what you have to upgrade _to_, since the previous commenter seemed to be lacking percussion/harp/soloists. I'm assuming they were asking about upgrading the products they had to their Opus equivalents.


----------



## BasariStudios

The more i read about it after it was released the happier
i am i did not upgrade to it and bought Elite and MSS Full.
Now onto Pacific and Voyage i think.


----------



## alcorey

BasariStudios said:


> The more i read about it after it was released the happier
> i am i did not upgrade to it and bought Elite and MSS Full.
> Now onto Pacific and Voyage i think.


Maybe you should just take a Voyage on the Pacific


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

BasariStudios said:


> The more i read about it after it was released the happier
> i am i did not upgrade to it and bought Elite and MSS Full.
> Now onto Pacific and Voyage i think.


You are missing out!


----------



## TCMQL1

BasariStudios said:


> The more i read about it after it was released the happier
> i am i did not upgrade to it and bought Elite and MSS Full.
> Now onto Pacific and Voyage i think.


Shouldn't it be "Now onto making music with the libraries I just bought"? 🙄 

Sample libraries aren't pokemon, no need to catch 'em all man!


----------



## lettucehat

TCMQL1 said:


> Shouldn't it be "Now onto making music with the libraries I just bought"? 🙄
> 
> Sample libraries aren't pokemon, no need to catch 'em all man!


You obviously haven't seen his thread / cry for help! I think he knows! lol


----------



## BasariStudios

Jeremy Spencer said:


> You are missing out!


Don't tempt me or dare me please.



lettucehat said:


> You obviously haven't seen his thread / cry for help! I think he knows! lol


It actually helped me out a lot.



TCMQL1 said:


> Shouldn't it be "Now onto making music with the libraries I just bought"? 🙄
> 
> Sample libraries aren't pokemon, no need to catch 'em all man!


I was trying to but now i gave up, lol.



alcorey said:


> Maybe you should just take a Voyage on the Pacific


After all this i need one.


----------



## emilio_n

I finally got the upgrade from HOD.
I am afraid that I will need to wait until tomorrow to get the licence.

Looks that will be a great addition to my libraries now that step by step all the problems have been fixed.


----------



## Dex

I want to hear some of these supposedly-better legatos. Anyone have a demo of the same midi and same patch in OPUS vs HO:D side-by-side?


----------



## Robo Rivard

I finally fell for Opus Diamond, and I've been downloading the libraries for the past few days. I still have the strings to download... Since those downloads are so heavy and the files generated so numerous, I would like to double-check to know if I'm on the right way...

For those who have a fully functioning install of OPUS, I would like to know what is the final weight for each group of instruments (just the sample folders!). 

- HO Harps = ?
- HO Solo Violin = ?
- HO Solo Cello = ?
- HO Brass = ?
- HO Woodwinds = ?
- HO Percussions = ?
- HO Strings = ?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## ennbr

Robo Rivard said:


> For those who have a fully functioning install of OPUS, I would like to know what is the final weight for each group of instruments (just the sample folders!).


48.9 MB Orchestrator
15.38 GB harp
40.87 GB solo cello
39.09 GB solo violin
201.2 GB brass
74.96 GB perc
190.85 GB wood
376.42 GB string


----------



## Robo Rivard

ennbr said:


> 48.9 MB Orchestrator
> 15.38 GB harp
> 40.87 GB solo cello
> 39.09 GB solo violin
> 201.2 GB brass
> 74.96 GB perc
> 190.85 GB wood
> 376.42 GB string


Haha, none of those numbers fit my own sample folders... I'm slightly under... Seems like I will have to work some more to earn my paid product.


----------



## Markrs

cqd said:


> Can you check your download and installation paths?..I was having issues around the solo violin and cello..they refused to install where they were supposed to, but I just moved them and they were OK..


Looks like removing the 2nd library installation path worked. Initially I just made the installation change, and it still had problems, but I tried again after closing the installation centre and then reinstalling them and this time it has worked.

I didn't use the EastWest support in the end, but they did get back to my ticket very quickly and offered to use Team Viewer remote access software to fix it for me. That level of dedicated support is very good and like others I am very impressed with their support.

Thank you all for your help in trying to sort out the issue, it has been much appreciated.


----------



## cqd

Woo-hoo!!..


----------



## djburton

I submitted a case on this to EW support, but wondered if anyone here has had this issue (I've read all 294 pages of this thread and have not found a case like this in the pages since 4/20's release).

I love the enhanced functionality of the Opus engine. I use Cubase and Studio One (drifting deeper into adopting the latter) and normally host HO Diamond in VE Pro, using ad hoc templates spread across 4-6 instances of Play containing 9-16 channels each. Play works just fine with both. As of this morning (Opus 1.01, IC 1.4.1 and all instruments updated) I finally have Opus running smoothly in Cubase, but it still dismally fails in Studio One, as it cannot retrieve all of a saved Song. At least 1-2 instances of a typical orchestral setup load without the instruments I saved for those instances. This happens whether I use the VST2 or VST3 plug-in, and whether I host in VE Pro or not. This is a Windows 10 machine with and AMD Ryzen 3900X, 80 GB of RAM and plenty of SSD space. No technical issues with any other libraries (Spitfire - [proprietary or Kontakt], Chris Hein, Cinematic Studio Series, etc.).

The other odd behavior I notice in both DAWS is that when I create two tracks for the same rack instrument (say Clarinet 1 and Clarinet 2 using the KS instrument for both tracks), relevant samples are loaded into RAM twice (once for each track) instead of being shared between them as in Play.

Based on what I've read here, I'm sure support will get back to me shortly, but if you've experienced anything like this and found the gremlin responsible, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

White noise and missing instruments on installation have not been issues for me, and orchestrator is sort of a footnote in my case.

Thanks.


----------



## Toecutter

Having used the woodwinds all day in a cue, I gotta say the programming improved a lot

flute HOD vs Opus 

New violins still suck and the other new stuff is just okayish and doesn't add much value imo


----------



## cqd

Toecutter said:


> New violins still suck and the other new stuff is just okayish and doesn't add much value imo


Really?..I think the new violins are a lot more refined and airy? than the old ones..

The new brass has a lot more body/weight too..


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

Anyone still getting missing brass (3 trombone staccato) samples when using Orchestrator?
EDIT: I think it's the .oib file that's missing. It's not present in my folder


----------



## M4T

*



For those who are not familiar with EW composer cloud and the benefits of Opus, I made my own review. Not saying I'm right, this is just how I feel.
I am not reviewing any specific patch, there are already plenty of videos like that on YT from people speaking a decent english compared to mine .
This is only a "what you get for 1€/day" and I try to demonstrate that you get a lot.*


----------



## shayne.oneill

Question for folks. Has anyone had problems with Opus crashing out their Daw? I've had these problems for the two days I've had it but I'm not sure if its that or the new 3 fader midi controller I recieved in the mail that day. My thinking is its actually the midi controller (Its an arduino thing and its entirely possible its doing something incorrect which is locking up the midi drivers on my Win 10 machine).


----------



## AndyP

shayne.oneill said:


> Question for folks. Has anyone had problems with Opus crashing out their Daw? I've had these problems for the two days I've had it but I'm not sure if its that or the new 3 fader midi controller I recieved in the mail that day. My thinking is its actually the midi controller (Its an arduino thing and its entirely possible its doing something incorrect which is locking up the midi drivers on my Win 10 machine).


After I installed the 1.0.1 update it happened 2 times. Before that, it didn't happen.


----------



## kingy10kingy

I am thinking of getting Opus but EW want to charge another $99 for tax, making it $600 to upgrade . I do not live in the USA, (europe) is this tax removable?


----------



## Braveheart

kingy10kingy said:


> I am thinking of getting Opus but EW want to charge another $99 for tax, making it $600 to upgrade . I do not live in the USA, (europe) is this tax removable?


It is usually your country who wants that those orders get the taxes, that’s where that money will go.


----------



## shayne.oneill

Hey guys. I put together a Patch Library website for folks to upload and share around their patches. The bigger the library is, the better chance we have of stopping every budget film and indy game featuring the same factory patches and what not.

I'm actually finding a really good workflow for using this with my regular template by routing out to the instruments and then 'printing' the midi into it which I can then go back and edit (bonus points for it being super clean when imported into engraving software.

I'm planning on adding a login system to remove my need to approve patches (currently they go straight through, but I'll be pushing a change to make the patches require approval first, then add the login later), I'll also be adding a place to upload soundclouds/youtube as patch previews, and MusicXML with suggested orchestrations for folks who want to use these ideas to score real-orchestra stuff.

Clicky: http://opuslibrary.bortorbital.com/


----------



## JeeTee

I have a question for anyone who currently has OPUS. If you turn on the Legato simulation on a patch, does it also turn on the built-in reverb? This is one of those 'features' of PLAY that I've always found intensely annoying, and EW have always claimed it was 'by design'. Just wondered if it was still there...


----------



## djburton

djburton said:


> I submitted a case on this to EW support, but wondered if anyone here has had this issue (I've read all 294 pages of this thread and have not found a case like this in the pages since 4/20's release).
> 
> I love the enhanced functionality of the Opus engine. I use Cubase and Studio One (drifting deeper into adopting the latter) and normally host HO Diamond in VE Pro, using ad hoc templates spread across 4-6 instances of Play containing 9-16 channels each. Play works just fine with both. As of this morning (Opus 1.01, IC 1.4.1 and all instruments updated) I finally have Opus running smoothly in Cubase, but it still dismally fails in Studio One, as it cannot retrieve all of a saved Song. At least 1-2 instances of a typical orchestral setup load without the instruments I saved for those instances. This happens whether I use the VST2 or VST3 plug-in, and whether I host in VE Pro or not. This is a Windows 10 machine with and AMD Ryzen 3900X, 80 GB of RAM and plenty of SSD space. No technical issues with any other libraries (Spitfire - [proprietary or Kontakt], Chris Hein, Cinematic Studio Series, etc.).
> 
> The other odd behavior I notice in both DAWS is that when I create two tracks for the same rack instrument (say Clarinet 1 and Clarinet 2 using the KS instrument for both tracks), relevant samples are loaded into RAM twice (once for each track) instead of being shared between them as in Play.
> 
> Based on what I've read here, I'm sure support will get back to me shortly, but if you've experienced anything like this and found the gremlin responsible, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
> 
> White noise and missing instruments on installation have not been issues for me, and orchestrator is sort of a footnote in my case.
> 
> Thanks.


And this morning Cubase failed to save a new piece in the same manner as S1. Notified support. Back to the drawing board (and Play).

Bummer


----------



## cqd

djburton said:


> And this morning Cubase failed to save a new piece in the same manner as S1. Notified support. Back to the drawing board (and Play).
> 
> Bummer


Mr. Burton..

I did have a similar issue with Pro tools and ve pro the other day actually..I thought it had been down to an issue with the server file, as there was some connection issue with the two instances the last time I'd used it..I was going to just build that from scratch at the weekend and see..

Hmm..


----------



## larry777

Hi sorry if it is a noob question. Is it possible to use cc1 just for dynamic and assign vibrato to another cc . What is the cc for vibrato ? Thanks !


----------



## cqd

larry777 said:


> Hi sorry if it is a noob question. Is it possible to use cc1 just for dynamic and assign vibrato to another cc . What is the cc for vibrato ? Thanks !


Yeah, you can change these to whatever you want in the controller window..


----------



## larry777

Thanks , I don't see vibrato in the controller window ( the one that says midi control # )


----------



## larry777

Sorry I don't think I understood. CC 1 for strings and woodwinds is only doing vibrato or dynamic as well ? Or CC11 is taking the place of dynamic ?


----------



## larry777

In the manual page 143 it looks like for certain articulations CC1 is for vibrato and CC11 becomes sort of CC1 in that case, a little confusing depending on the patch.


----------



## AndyP

That was already the case in Hollywood orchestras with play.
You can swap CC1 and CC11, then CC1 controls the dynamic via the modwheel, and CC11 the vibrato. Unfortunately this is not consistent with EW.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

You do have to adjust per patch, but once your template is set up (or you can save the patch), it all works. I've set vibrato to CC21 instead of CC1 for the patches that have it and changed expression to CC1 (which is what EW refers to as their dynamic crossfading).


----------



## NYC Composer

cqd said:


> If you'll remember, QL was here and just got abuse..


Oh, the microaggressions of people who purchase sample libraries (and can never resell them.)

maybe “QL” should have grown a pair.


----------



## Toecutter

djburton said:


> And this morning Cubase failed to save a new piece in the same manner as S1. Notified support. Back to the drawing board (and Play).
> 
> Bummer


hey thanks a lot for reporting, these bugs may not affect the rest of us now but who knows what kind of monsters they can turn into tomorrow?


----------



## djburton

cqd said:


> Mr. Burton..
> 
> I did have a similar issue with Pro tools and ve pro the other day actually..I thought it had been down to an issue with the server file, as there was some connection issue with the two instances the last time I'd used it..I was going to just build that from scratch at the weekend and see..
> 
> Hmm..





Toecutter said:


> hey thanks a lot for reporting, these bugs may not affect the rest of us now but who knows what kind of monsters they can turn into tomorrow?


cqd - I admire anyone who uses Protools as I found it sort of intimidating even in its "freebie" form supplied with an old audio interface. The East West support guy said he'd run across my problem in both Cubase and S1 and was gathering user files to study (thinks he might have a handle on the issue - sure hope so). No mention of other DAWs yet (you're the first I heard from) - eager to hear how it tracks.

Toecutter - You're welcome. All the comments here made me extra vigilant about other users' troubles. Some may very well pop up even if I get the "failure to save" issue resolved. As I said, I love the utility of Opus - if and when I can get it to work - and have always been really happy with the HO sound - which with a little processing suits my orchestral reconstructions just fine. Beethoven actually resembles my recollection of how the Chicago Symphony performed his works live when I was a season subscriber. Here's hoping we all land with a stable and much evolved product.


----------



## alcorey

Really, really sad......Midi export in Logic Pro X for the Orchestrator - not going to happen 

From support at E/W:


 Hey Al,

The Midi Export from the Orchestrator requires that the DAW you're using allows for a Midi track creation that can record the Midi Input from a plug-in's output (Opus included). In the case of some DAWs, that feature is not currently available.

We are in conversations with developers who don't currently have that capability (Logic for example seems to be the most prominent case where it's not possible) but currently that feature is only available in some DAWs.

Best,
Michael​


----------



## emilio_n

alcorey said:


> Really, really sad......Midi export in Logic Pro X for the Orchestrator - not going to happen
> 
> From support at E/W:
> 
> 
> Hey Al,
> 
> The Midi Export from the Orchestrator requires that the DAW you're using allows for a Midi track creation that can record the Midi Input from a plug-in's output (Opus included). In the case of some DAWs, that feature is not currently available.
> 
> We are in conversations with developers who don't currently have that capability (Logic for example seems to be the most prominent case where it's not possible) but currently that feature is only available in some DAWs.
> 
> Best,
> Michael​


No way!
I hope they can find a walkaround.


----------



## alcorey

emilio_n said:


> No way!
> I hope they can find a walkaround.


This really cripples Orchestrator quite a bit in Logic........It's something that Apple would have to implement into Logic.....not going to get any hopes up at all for that to happen


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I think the better option would be they implement drag-n-drop of the MIDI pattern, similar to how Maschine does it. This works in AU and VST hosts (and if I remember correctly, AAX too).


----------



## rnb_2

I haven't had a chance to try it out yet (also, getting midi out from Opus and into another track in Studio One is dead simple, and I use that at least as much as Logic these days), but in trying to find a solution for Logic, I came across this article from 2019 on Sound on Sound last night. It involves using the IAC Driver in Audio Midi Setup - the article talks about using it to get all of the notes out of something like Logic's Arpeggiator or Chord Trigger plugins to use in other tracks (instead of just the played notes from your controller). I can't see any way for it to be anything like realtime - it would be used after you record your Opus track - but I'm guessing it's better than nothing, assuming it works.


----------



## dzilizzi

Less than a hour playing around and came up with this. The legato on the winds isn't very legato. Should I be overlapping notes? It seems to be working well so far. I will keep my fingers crossed.


----------



## dzilizzi

TCMQL1 said:


> Shouldn't it be "Now onto making music with the libraries I just bought"? 🙄
> 
> Sample libraries aren't pokemon, no need to catch 'em all man!


More like baseball cards - some are homeruns, some never make it passed their rookie year, and the rest are somewhere in the middle. 

Unfortunately, you don't know until you buy them.....


----------



## emilio_n

rnb_2 said:


> I haven't had a chance to try it out yet (also, getting midi out from Opus and into another track in Studio One is dead simple, and I use that at least as much as Logic these days), but in trying to find a solution for Logic, I came across this article from 2019 on Sound on Sound last night. It involves using the IAC Driver in Audio Midi Setup - the article talks about using it to get all of the notes out of something like Logic's Arpeggiator or Chord Trigger plugins to use in other tracks (instead of just the played notes from your controller). I can't see any way for it to be anything like realtime - it would be used after you record your Opus track - but I'm guessing it's better than nothing, assuming it works.


I will play around with this. Thanks for the info!
Now that Studio One have articulation management, start to be an appealing replacement to Logic...


----------



## cqd

So is the epic mood in the latest version just loading 1 mic now?..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

alcorey said:


> Really, really sad......Midi export in Logic Pro X for the Orchestrator - not going to happen
> 
> From support at E/W:
> 
> 
> Hey Al,
> 
> The Midi Export from the Orchestrator requires that the DAW you're using allows for a Midi track creation that can record the Midi Input from a plug-in's output (Opus included). In the case of some DAWs, that feature is not currently available.
> 
> We are in conversations with developers who don't currently have that capability (Logic for example seems to be the most prominent case where it's not possible) but currently that feature is only available in some DAWs.
> 
> Best,
> Michael​


This is bad news. I don’t understand why they just can’t add a MIDI channel to each orchestrator instrument.


----------



## alcorey

rnb_2 said:


> I haven't had a chance to try it out yet (also, getting midi out from Opus and into another track in Studio One is dead simple, and I use that at least as much as Logic these days), but in trying to find a solution for Logic, I came across this article from 2019 on Sound on Sound last night. It involves using the IAC Driver in Audio Midi Setup - the article talks about using it to get all of the notes out of something like Logic's Arpeggiator or Chord Trigger plugins to use in other tracks (instead of just the played notes from your controller). I can't see any way for it to be anything like realtime - it would be used after you record your Opus track - but I'm guessing it's better than nothing, assuming it works.


Thanks for that ! I gave it a try and It just seems to copy over the same midi file that Opus created without breaking it down any further.........unless I'm doing something wrong....Big Sur 11.2 and Logic 10.6.1................haven't been able to find the 10.6.2 update


----------



## alcorey

Just to confirm, as I didn't mention this, It did work using Logic's plug in Arpeggiator - but unfortunately not with Opus's Orchestrator


----------



## emilio_n

I think they should add drag and drop functionality or something like this. The Orchestrator is just a toy if I can edit each instrument individually. All the learning power and the customization to write something original is based on this.


----------



## rnb_2

alcorey said:


> Just to confirm, as I didn't mention this, It did work using Logic's plug in Arpeggiator - but unfortunately not with Opus's Orchestrator


Thanks for giving it a try - sorry to hear that it doesn't seem to work in this case.


----------



## maximuss

Has anybody tried Opus with Sibelius yet?


----------



## Allen Constantine

shayne.oneill said:


> Hey guys. I put together a Patch Library website for folks to upload and share around their patches. The bigger the library is, the better chance we have of stopping every budget film and indy game featuring the same factory patches and what not.
> 
> I'm actually finding a really good workflow for using this with my regular template by routing out to the instruments and then 'printing' the midi into it which I can then go back and edit (bonus points for it being super clean when imported into engraving software.
> 
> I'm planning on adding a login system to remove my need to approve patches (currently they go straight through, but I'll be pushing a change to make the patches require approval first, then add the login later), I'll also be adding a place to upload soundclouds/youtube as patch previews, and MusicXML with suggested orchestrations for folks who want to use these ideas to score real-orchestra stuff.
> 
> Clicky: http://opuslibrary.bortorbital.com/


Great things but the patches don't appear in the orchestrator. Am I missing something out?
I followed the steps you mentioned.


----------



## SupremeFist

alcorey said:


> Really, really sad......Midi export in Logic Pro X for the Orchestrator - not going to happen
> 
> From support at E/W:
> 
> 
> Hey Al,
> 
> The Midi Export from the Orchestrator requires that the DAW you're using allows for a Midi track creation that can record the Midi Input from a plug-in's output (Opus included). In the case of some DAWs, that feature is not currently available.
> 
> We are in conversations with developers who don't currently have that capability (Logic for example seems to be the most prominent case where it's not possible) but currently that feature is only available in some DAWs.
> 
> Best,
> Michael​


Well that sucks. Wonder if they are offering refunds to people who bought it on the claimed functionality with no mention that it didn't work in one of the leading daws?


----------



## BronzeOrbiter

maximuss said:


> Has anybody tried Opus with Sibelius yet?


I'd be interested in this. Someone would have to create some soundsets for it to work well.


----------



## emilio_n

SupremeFist said:


> Well that sucks. Wonder if they are offering refunds to people who bought it on the claimed functionality with no mention that it didn't work in one of the leading daws?


This is something to take in mind. I asked before buying and they told me that I can export to individual midi tracks. I didn't mention that I am using Logic, but they should know the exceptions...


----------



## Nicola74

I am building a new template from scratch based on Opus.
This is a first attempt to see how Opus react: twenty minutes composing, no eq, no compressor, no volume adjust until now, just reverb (Spaces II, S. Cal. Hall and Digital Hall for everything).
I didn't tweak too much the midi files, so this is, let's say, out of the box, playing around with some patches.
No crashes until now, I didn't open Orchestrator, and probably I will not in the future, I am finding some dear old bugs not resolved and also a lot of improvements.
Happy for now


----------



## José Herring

Nicola74 said:


> I am building a new template from scratch based on Opus.
> This is a first attempt to see how Opus react: twenty minutes composing, no eq, no compressor, no volume adjust until now, just reverb (Spaces II, S. Cal. Hall and Digital Hall for everything).
> I didn't tweak too much the midi files, so this is, let's say, out of the box, playing around with some patches.
> No crashes until now, I didn't open Orchestrator, and probably I will not in the future, I am finding some dear old bugs not resolved and also a lot of improvements.
> Happy for now


Rather nice. Seems like some of the dynamic layers have been smoothed out in the horns. Big problem in the Play version. Makes the middle dynamics rather useless when the ff dynamic starts to cut in. 

Thanks for doing this.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Apologies if someone has already posted there here
But I found this on the Facebook page for EW:

EastWest Sounds
Hello everyone - Checking in again. We've got new updates to the EW Installation Center, Opus engine, and the Opus libraries available in the EW Installation Center now. That should fully fix the white noise issues, the non-english windows 'Play' interface not showing up correctly, and a host of other issues. 
Thank you all again for your patience, and let us know if we can help you with anything.
Best,
EW Support


So for those who have not updated here you are
I did not notice getting an email about it or finding it until I opened the EW IC App


----------



## Geomir

For all of you brave souls that pulled the trigger for Opus at the day of release and did all the beta-testing for yourselves, I have some simple question(s) about the legato of the solo woodwinds:

Did they seriously improved it? Does it sound more natural? No phasing issues anymore? Are they one step closer now to the quality of VSL and Orchestral Tools woodwinds?

I mean, your first impression was: "Wow! They reworked it so much! That's how woodwinds transitions should sound!", or "Hmmm... I have a small impression that something must have been improved, maybe".


----------



## Toecutter

How's performance for y'all after the update? Still struggling here, same high CPU


----------



## ThomasS

maximuss said:


> Has anybody tried Opus with Sibelius yet?


I tried it briefly. I could load Opus into Sibelius easily enough, but Sibelius couldn't play it smoothly - a lot of stutters and missed notes and delays. I only tried it with the Orchestrator, because I thought that might be useful for composition with multiple instances of Orchestator (bit it stutters even with one instance of strings only).

So it "works" but very poorly on my system (i7 quad-core, 32 gb ram) but maybe with more power (say i9 octo-core, 64 gb ram?) perhaps it would play smoothly. Generally, Sibelius can't deal with large sound libraries like a DAW can. I imagine Dorico might do better. Also, a lighter version of Opus, like Gold, might work (as I only tried it with Diamond with all five mics.)

Of course, if you have Windows and Sibelius you can use your DAW as a playback engine for Sibelius (using loopbe30) which people have been doing for years, and that would surely work even with the Diamond edition (but I don't know how easily Sibelius could communicate all the keyswitches and patch changes - you can do it in the performance dictionary but it would take hours to program.) 

If you use your DAW as a Sibelius playback engine with LoopBe30 you can at least get going with composing in Sibelius while hearing the sounds in your DAW, and then do the major tweaking and sound adjustments after recording the tracks inside your DAW. But only if you have Windows, unless someone knows how to virtually-cable Sibelius on a Mac.

If you really want to stay in your notation program and get everything sounding right, (keyswitches, patch changes, expression, etc) it would tak a lot of work tweaking a new Sound Set in Sibelius, and it might be simpler and cheaper in the long run to get Dorico for this kind of work. (But wait until someone has tried Opus with Dorico first!)


----------



## AndyP

Toecutter said:


> How's performance for y'all after the update? Still struggling here, same high CPU


Things are going well for me. Mac OS, 12 cores.


----------



## MauroPantin

Toecutter said:


> How's performance for y'all after the update? Still struggling here, same high CPU


Okay-ish. I can get around 20 instances of OPUS running Legato MAX patches and doing playback at the same time with no issues... Anything over that starts to get dangerously high in CPU usage. I haven't found differences between single instance and multi-instance usage. I feel that it can be optimized further but for a version 1 it's pretty good already.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Geomir said:


> "Hmmm... I have a small impression that something must have been improved, maybe".


They’ve for sure improved, but the reality is, they are the same old samples. That being said, I love EW orchestral libraries so I’m bias. I’ll always choose them over anything else most if the time. I really think you should try a month of CC to test for yourself.

Now, the solo violin and cello? The legato is improved, but IMO they are still just plain awful. Thankfully I bought Cinestrings Solo recently, no contest.

As much as I really like Orchestrator, the recent news abut not being able to export the MIDI into Logic is a disappointment.


----------



## ookami

Toecutter said:


> How's performance for y'all after the update? Still struggling here, same high CPU


Very good to be Honest the Ryzen 9 3950X with 64GB Ram can handle Opus amazingly well.
The Multi Core support seems to be very effective, so in this case I think for Opus higher Core Count
works great.


----------



## BasariStudios

Jay Panikkar said:


> I subbed CC+, and have been playing with Opus for a few hours now.
> 
> My impression with this release is that it's "typical EastWest": two steps forward, one step back; good ideas and great samples, somewhat sloppy implementation.
> 
> Here's a summary of my thoughts so far.
> 
> Starting with the new content:
> * The new woodwind ensembles are the best of them, they definitely add new colours to the existing collection.
> * The new 2 Trumpets cut through better than the old set. The new 2 Trombones are rather mellow but generally complement the existing 2 Tenor + 1 Bass Trombone patch. I did run into some sample / programming issues with some of the patches.
> * The new violins don't add much to the collection IMO. Here too I ran into some sample / programming issues with some of the patches.
> * Overall, there's sufficient articulations and dynamics across all of the new instruments, and they fit well with the existing collection. But they should fix the dodgy patches ASAP.
> 
> Then the "re-imagined" stuff:
> * Sample fidelity between the PLAY and Opus versions is identical, but some minor oddities with loop points, round-robins and mic positions in the PLAY collection seems to have been fixed in the new version. However, several long-standing sample / programming issues still persist. For example, some patches still incorrectly load Vintage mic samples along with Surround samples. In the PLAY version 'close' mic samples for some of the Brass and Winds were truncated at the start of the envelope. This is only partially fixed with this update; some 2+1 Trombones, Trombone Solo and Low Brass patches still have this problem. Also, there's been no adjustments to tuning and volume levels despite plenty of opportunity across the collection.
> * The scripting for HOW—especially the legatos—now feel similar to the strings and brass in how they play and respond. So far, this feels like a good update to the woodwinds.
> * The solo instruments have also been updated. The noise / artifacts in some of the old Harp patches are mostly gone. The Violin and Cello are nothing special, but they are actually useable now.
> * Hollywood Orchestra patches—HOS in particular—have finally been consolidated in line with the rest of the collection. But the 'loose' staccati patches have been removed for some reason. Opus consists only of the 'tight' patches from the old collection. I think there may be some other patches missing too.
> * Some new and innovative issues have been introduced with this upgrade. The shorts and the sustains in some of the 'accent' patches are misaligned. Repetition patches produce huge CPU spikes and artifacts, and screw up audio playback. The Tuba 'Legato Slur MAX' patch and two other patches which I forgot are missing legato transitions.
> * The default 'Classic Mood' setting loads 'main' & 'surround' mic samples, as opposed to the PLAY version which only loads the 'main' samples by default. The indicator for surround mic doesn't always light up as intended, so the patches are loading twice the number of samples by default and users won't realise this is happening.
> * The 'Mood' setting forces multiple mic positions to load every time you switch in and out of the Instrument Rack or the 'Player' tab, which overrides / resets user settings every time.
> * Overall, no big surprises here. Hopefully, they'll go about fixing the broken stuff ASAP.
> 
> On to the new Opus software:
> * The GUI is scalable and snappy, and even at 4k feels a lot smoother to navigate as compared to PLAY. However, there are various display issues related to performance indicators, scroll bars, mic position indicators, etc.
> * Lots of information text and tooltips, solid thumbs up for that.
> * Functionality is split across tabs and racks making Opus relatively easier to navigate than PLAY... but it's not organised in an intuitive way and instead exposes a lot of seemingly useless controls. I ran into several other issues, such as audio playback glitches when loading patches into the rack or changing controls in the rack, replaced patches "inheriting" settings from the previous patch in the slot instead of resetting, etc.
> * Keyswitches can be configured under the "Articulations" tab, if you load the KS master patches for the instrument. However, it may not be obvious that you need to right-click to change the settings. Then there's a big problem with duplicate loading where the same articulation samples are loaded again and again despite already being loaded by an existing patch.
> * MIDI CC can be configured under the "Automation" tab, and so far, works as intended. However, the first item in the MIDI CC list says "Modulation wheel" instead of what it's actually supposed to control—for example "Vibrato"—which will confuse most users, especially when re-mapping to a different controller other than the modulation wheel.
> * There are some new settings in the Preferences that sound useful but I'm not convinced that they even work. I had to enable and set to maximum all the multi-thread settings to get rid of audio dropouts. Fortunately, in terms of disk loading performance, Opus nearly maxes out my NVME drives with near instantaneous loading for some of the largest patches which previously took a while to load in PLAY.
> * Curiously, I didn't have any issues with installation and licensing so I guess I got lucky on that front.
> 
> Overall, I think the current upgrade price is centred around the Orchestrator tool. I'll be holding off until a 'lite' upgrade is offered from HO Diamond to the Opus edition.


Thanks...i am so happy i did not upgrade and used the money on other Libraries.


----------



## Evans

The main issues I have now are

The Orchestrator frequently won't load all the patches it should when I select an ostinato or score or what have you; and
The Orchestrator sometimes lets patches "linger" from one selection to the next. For example, Score A might have a timpani. Score B does not. Yet, loading Score B after Score A has this ridiculous, out of place timpani playing in the background that got "stuck" after previously loading up Score A.
Funny stuff.


----------



## Trash Panda

MauroPantin said:


> Okay-ish. I can get around 20 instances of OPUS running Legato MAX patches and doing playback at the same time with no issues...


I just heard my laptop start crying.


----------



## Toecutter

@AndyP @MauroPantin @ookami thanks, that helps a lot! So the recent update DID improve performance for you? It may be something here, I will clean my computer and test again.

Andy, ookami, your computers can handle the entire orchestra? 1 microphone right?

Mauro thanks for sharing the number of tracks, I can compare to mine. Your Ryzen 5-3600 rocks


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Is anyone still have issues with missing samples when using some of the OPUS Orchestrator patches? 


Everything seems up to date, but some patches, Like 3 Clarinets close Short , are just missing, while they show up in the wide mic section ?


----------



## Fa

Geomir said:


> For all of you brave souls that pulled the trigger for Opus at the day of release and did all the beta-testing for yourselves, I have some simple question(s) about the legato of the solo woodwinds:
> 
> Did they seriously improved it? Does it sound more natural? No phasing issues anymore? Are they one step closer now to the quality of VSL and Orchestral Tools woodwinds?
> 
> I mean, your first impression was: "Wow! They reworked it so much! That's how woodwinds transitions should sound!", or "Hmmm... I have a small impression that something must have been improved, maybe".


short answer: no.

To be honest I think they did the opposite: bypass the issue implementing "ensemble" winds, that being more players overlapping, are masking phasing issues.

Still solos crossfade sounds like 2 players, and same for some looser legatos.


----------



## MauroPantin

Trash Panda said:


> I just heard my laptop start crying.


Sorry about that. But worry not, justice is coming. I'm going to even the score making mine cry when I reach out for the JW Signature Series, I'll have OPUS hit my CPU in the nuts for good measure


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Still getting horrible white noise on the WW - seems like I will have to redownload again :(


----------



## wkundrus

Paul Jelfs said:


> Everything seems up to date, but some patches, Like 3 Clarinets close Short , are just missing, while they show up in the wide mic section ?


The close mics are an extra install, if you have the CC GoldX subscription.


----------



## wkundrus

cqd said:


> So is the epic mood in the latest version just loading 1 mic now?..


Yes


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Yes I think I do have- as that is the basic one ? Is it not Cloud Plus that is the extra one ? 
Thanks for replying


----------



## Geomir

Jeremy Spencer said:


> They’ve for sure improved, but the reality is, they are the same old samples. That being said, I love EW orchestral libraries so I’m bias. I’ll always choose them over anything else most if the time. I really think you should try a month of CC to test for yourself.
> 
> Now, the solo violin and cello? The legato is improved, but IMO they are still just plain awful. Thankfully I bought Cinestrings Solo recently, no contest.
> 
> As much as I really like Orchestrator, the recent news abut not being able to export the MIDI into Logic is a disappointment.


Thank you for your reply, Jeremy.

I have been a CC member for 1 year, and I exited as a happy owner of EWQLSO Gold, EWQLSC Gold, EWHO Gold, EW Ra, Silk, and Gypsy.

I remember all your posts (and they helped me a lot) that you can do so many things with just the Gold versions of EWQLSO and EWHO.

I wouldn't mind if the EWHO Opus WW are the same old samples. The recording quality is very good, and EW Studio 1 is perfect for woodwinds (which usually favor dry rooms). The short articulations (with their 9 RRs) are very good. The problem was the programming of the legato transitions (i.e. their volume was very loud and they had terrible phasing issues).

I was really hoping they re-edited, re-worked, improved, name it as you like, the legato patches of the solo woodwinds.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Hmmm still getting horrible white noise on Random patches- It must not of installed correctly. 

Maybe an over night Download is in order.. ..


----------



## Geomir

Fa said:


> short answer: no.
> 
> To be honest I think they did the opposite: bypass the issue implementing "ensemble" winds, that being more players overlapping, are masking phasing issues.
> 
> Still solos crossfade sounds like 2 players, and same for some looser legatos.


Oh no this is not the reply I was hoping for.

OK it's nice to have the ensembles, but I think it would be more important to fix the solo woodwinds before anything else.


----------



## bdev

AllenConstantine said:


> Great things but the patches don't appear in the orchestrator. Am I missing something out?
> I followed the steps you mentioned.


Regarding the patches of http://opuslibrary.bortorbital.com/, I had this problem too and here is a solution which makes the user presets appear in the orchestrator. It is not easy but it is while waiting for better.
You have to open the file: "EW Hollywood Orchestrator \ Data \ User \ presetList_User.json" in Notepad and manually add the presets with this text , changing the name for each preset like this:
{
"keyRange": {
"maxKey": 103,
"minKey": 36
},
"name": "the_spiders_garden",
"tags": [
"Themes"
]
},
*Make a copy* (before modification) of the file "EW Hollywood Orchestrator \ Data \ User \ presetList_User.json" because if you make a mistake the presets will no longer be displayed.
Do whatever you want with this info but don't blame me 
If there is a more convenient solution, it would be better ...
Here is a contextual example...
_{_
_ "menu0": {
"entries": [
"Bdev tests",
"Themes"
],
"hasAll": true,
"order": 0
},
"presetOrder": 0,
"presets": [
{
"keyRange": {
"maxKey": 103,
"minKey": 36
},
"name": "Bdev 1237-2",
"tags": [
"Bdev tests"
]
},
{
"keyRange": {
"maxKey": 91,
"minKey": 48
},
"name": "adetruire",
"tags": [
"Bdev tests"
]
},
{
"keyRange": {
"maxKey": 103,
"minKey": 36
},
"name": "the_spiders_garden",
"tags": [
"Themes"
]
},
{
"keyRange": {
"maxKey": 103,
"minKey": 36
},
"name": "woods__simple_percussion_and_restrained_brass_",
"tags": [
"Themes"
]_
_ },_


----------



## eromain

Anyone finding like me that in Logic there is no multi-output version of Opus in the list - only stereo, mono or surround.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

MauroPantin said:


> Con sord button is definitely there, and the "soft" mood sometimes activates it


Looks like it's no longer available with Gold. I tried your suggestion of selecting "soft", which seems to be the same as activating CC15. Thanks!


----------



## MauroPantin

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Looks like it's no longer available with Gold. I tried your suggestion of selecting "soft", which seems to be the same as activating CC15. Thanks!


That's really uncool that they took a feature out. Consider this: You had HO Gold, now get OPUS. _"Thanks for upgrading! You no longer get easy access to the sordino feature.". =/_


----------



## pcarrilho

eromain said:


> Anyone finding like me that in Logic there is no multi-output version of Opus in the list - only stereo, mono or surround.


Not true


----------



## ookami

Toecutter said:


> @AndyP @MauroPantin @ookami thanks, that helps a lot! So the recent update DID improve performance for you? It may be something here, I will clean my computer and test again.
> 
> Andy, ookami, your computers can handle the entire orchestra? 1 microphone right?
> 
> Mauro thanks for sharing the number of tracks, I can compare to mine. Your Ryzen 5-3600 rocks


I will do an more in depth test, and let You know, . 😅


----------



## ookami

Have anyone found the PitchBend Range would need 2-5 Semi for Trailer Style Music


----------



## Toecutter

ookami said:


> I will do an more in depth test, and let You know, . 😅


Awesome, thanks a lot! I'm thinking about the 3950x and would like to know how much you can push it with the Opus orchestra. If possible how many tracks you can load? If you use more than one microphone, I'm curious to know who will give up first, CPU or RAM? Does purging help?


----------



## eromain

pcarrilho said:


> Not true


Thanks pcarrilho - is that a screen print of your logic? For me for some reason I have no multis


----------



## I like music

Geomir said:


> OK it's nice to have the ensembles, but I think it would be more important to fix the solo woodwinds before anything else.


Personally, I think this was their biggest opportunity. Because the core tone of the winds was good to my ears. But the legato was problematic.

If they could improve on this, they'd have a pretty complete frigging orchestra.


----------



## eromain

eromain said:


> Thanks pcarrilho - is that a screen print of your logic? For me for some reason I have no multis


----------



## cqd

eromain said:


> Thanks pcarrilho - is that a screen print of your logic? For me for some reason I have no multis


Try opening Opus standalone and seeing if you can change no of outputs in thesettings..


----------



## Geomir

I like music said:


> Personally, I think this was their biggest opportunity. Because the core tone of the winds was good to my ears. But the legato was problematic.
> 
> If they could improve on this, they'd have a pretty complete frigging orchestra.


Couldn't agree more! The tone is very nice and the recording quality very good. Plus the variety of the solo woodwinds is really beyond competition at this price range.

I mean, for less than $100 you could get the Gold version of EW Orchestral Woodwinds, having in your arsenal: Flute 1, Flute 2, Piccolo Flute, Alto Flute, Bass Flute, Clarinet 1, Clarinet 2, Bass Clarinet, Contrabass Clarinet, Oboe, English Horn, Bassoon and Contrabassoon. All of them deeply sampled, with many different dynamic layers, and with a great amount of articulations. It could be the best value-for-money woodwind library ever released. 

But all of this is blah blah blah since the legato is so bad (at least in the legacy version), that makes it practically impossible to use them exposed. I really hope they improved it, but I don't get that feeling after reading hundreds of posts here.

As you said, taking for granted that the Strings, Brass and Perc are all among the best, having woodwinds as good as their strings or brass, would make EWHO Opus as complete as ever, and the #1 choice for beginners and experienced musicians alike.

Maybe after 10 years they give their woodwinds another opportunity.


----------



## DaveC

Oh Dear! As a newly-seduced inductee into the World of EW Opus, and when trying to load various patches, I am often confronted with the Resource Locator screen? OK... I can live with the fact that I seem to have become an unwitting Beta tester and the 'Select File' and 'Download' buttons seem to do the trick but, I swear to Gd that I meticulously followed the destructions and downloaded everything as directed (the wife was even up all night whipping the donkey around the generator pit to keep the connection up). Have I missed a trick here or is this par for the course with EW I wonder? 

I'll see myself out...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

DaveC said:


> Oh Dear! As a newly-seduced inductee into the World of EW Opus, and when trying to load various patches, I am often confronted with the Resource Locator screen? OK... I can live with the fact that I seem to have become an unwitting Beta tester and the 'Select File' and 'Download' buttons seem to do the trick but, I swear to Gd that I meticulously followed the destructions and downloaded everything as directed (the wife was even up all night whipping the donkey around the generator pit to keep the connection up). Have I missed a trick here or is this par for the course with EW I wonder?
> 
> I'll see myself out...


I’ve now downloaded everything twice and have the same issue. Was fine for a while, but the issue has returned.


----------



## ennbr

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I’ve now downloaded everything twice and have the same issue. Was fine for a while, but the issue has returned.


I was initially having trouble the day OPUS was released with Orchestrator being installed into the wrong directory. My first mistake was not stopping when the message box popped up telling me it could not find the directory. From that point on no matter how many times I did the install pointing it to another directory it would always put it into my Ik Multimedia directory. I still have no idea why it selected the IK directory but it would not allow me to make the change.

I finally went to my production system and got it to install to the root of my Samples 2 SSD and then copied it over to my laptop. Next I restarted the installer and selected the Locate Directory and Reinstall and everything went fine from that point.

One more thing I did learn is the First ZIP file that downloads when un-zipped has the structure for whatever module is being downloaded (Directory Name, All sub-directories, and Files no samples)


----------



## I like music

Geomir said:


> Couldn't agree more! The tone is very nice and the recording quality very good. Plus the variety of the solo woodwinds is really beyond competition at this price range.
> 
> I mean, for less than $100 you could get the Gold version of EW Orchestral Woodwinds, having in your arsenal: Flute 1, Flute 2, Piccolo Flute, Alto Flute, Bass Flute, Clarinet 1, Clarinet 2, Bass Clarinet, Contrabass Clarinet, Oboe, English Horn, Bassoon and Contrabassoon. All of them deeply sampled, with many different dynamic layers, and with a great amount of articulations. It could be the best value-for-money woodwind library ever released.
> 
> But all of this is blah blah blah since the legato is so bad (at least in the legacy version), that makes it practically impossible to use them exposed. I really hope they improved it, but I don't get that feeling after reading hundreds of posts here.
> 
> As you said, taking for granted that the Strings, Brass and Perc are all among the best, having woodwinds as good as their strings or brass, would make EWHO Opus as complete as ever, and the #1 choice for beginners and experienced musicians alike.
> 
> Maybe after 10 years they give their woodwinds another opportunity.


Exactly! So close yet so far we are. I really hope some demos come out which sound better but not holding out hope. But then again, who uses woodwinds anymore? Hehe


----------



## pcarrilho

eromain said:


> Thanks pcarrilho - is that a screen print of your logic? For me for some reason I have no multis


Yes... it is my Logic Pro X with opus


----------



## eromain

When you set up multi outs for a preset is there a way to have all other presets go automatically with those output settings?


----------



## Markrs

Nice to see Guy Michelmore has a YouTube review of Opus.


----------



## cqd

Like..
I know there's a certain amount of people who think the Orchestrator is beneath them, as they're so talented..But like really, is the whole point of it not so you can roll your own..The scores will appeal to people who dont know what they're doing, and want to press one key and sound good, but it's a gimmick essentially..The only actual use I'd see is getting one you kind of like and ripping it apart and figuring out how it was put together..

Guy was humming and hawing about it and then went and made something that the orchestrator was completely designed to do..that ostinato riff would have been together and could have been better, dare I say, in a few minutes, and also saved to be reconditioned for future use..He could have been playing around with the harmony of the backing and perhaps come up with something more interesting in a couple of minutes too..


----------



## Markrs

cqd said:


> Like..
> I know there's a certain amount of people who think the Orchestrator is beneath them, as they're so talented..But like really, is the whole point of it not so you can roll your own..The scores will appeal to people who dont know what they're doing, and want to press one key and sound good, but it's a gimmick essentially..The only actual use I'd see is getting one you kind of like and ripping it apart and figuring out how it was put together..
> 
> Guy was humming and hawing about it and then went and made something that the orchestrator was completely designed to do..that ostinato riff would have been together and could have been better, dare I say, in a few minutes, and also saved to be reconditioned for future use..He could have been playing around with the harmony of the backing and perhaps come up with something more interesting in a couple of minutes too..


Guy really was humming and hawing over it, was quite funny. Not sure I have forgiven him for making tea in a mug, rather than using a teapot and also for not putting the milk in first. Make tea in a mug and before you know it, it is the collapse of civilization!

Regarding Orchestrator, I think making your own ostinatos and saving those to use when ever you want is a real strength of the Orchestrator for me. Especially if then tweak it a bit whenever you use them, or change the instrumentation.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Markrs said:


> Guy really was humming and hawing over it, was quite funny. Not sure I have forgiven him for making tea in a mug, rather than using a teapot and also for not putting the milk in first. Make tea in a mug and before you know it, it is the collapse of civilization!


It'll be the collapse of your house if you let any builders hear you say that......


----------



## zimm83

The Orchestrator needs sustain pedal....Please EW make it work...
Was the same problem with TOC1....was added 1 year later.....


----------



## cqd

Markrs said:


> Not sure I have forgiven him for making tea in a mug, rather than using a teapot and also for not putting the milk in first. Make tea in a mug and before you know it, it is the collapse of civilization!


Oh my god!..
Putting the milk in first?..that's just so wrong!..
A mug is the appropriate vessel for tea, but I'll let you off with the cup..

But putting the milk in first?..For the love of God..


----------



## Markrs

cqd said:


> Oh my god!..
> Putting the milk in first?..that's just so wrong!..
> A mug is the appropriate vessel for tea, but I'll let you off with the cup..
> 
> But putting the milk in first?..For the love of God..


It is the proper way to make tea ☕️😁


----------



## cqd

Markrs said:


> It is the proper way to make tea ☕️😁


Is there a block function on this forum?..


----------



## Trash Panda

Y’all put milk in tea? On this side of the pond, the only thing you add is ice and maybe a squeeze of lemon.

Edit: And sugar if you’re cool with diabetes.


----------



## SupremeFist

If you put milk in tea, you obviously hate the taste of tea, so why are you even drinking it? (The same goes 1000x for coffee obviously.)


----------



## Markrs

SupremeFist said:


> If you put milk in tea, you obviously hate the taste of tea, so why are you even drinking it? (The same goes 1000x for coffee obviously.)


Wait until you have had "builders" tea (very strong tea), which is the normal tea in the UK, you'll be wanting to put milk in it too!


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

cqd said:


> Oh my god!..
> Putting the milk in first?..that's just so wrong!..
> A mug is the appropriate vessel for tea, but I'll let you off with the cup..
> 
> But putting the milk in first?..For the love of God..


I have to agree with @cqd here

Perhaps it is a Countryside, Suffolk... East Anglia thing


----------



## SupremeFist

Markrs said:


> Wait until you have had "builders" tea (very strong tea), which is the normal tea in the UK, you'll be wanting to put milk in it too!


Dude...


----------



## Michael Antrum

SupremeFist said:


> Dude...


That stuff is for amateurs...... This is what you need.....


----------



## quickbrownf0x

Markrs said:


> It is the proper way to make tea ☕️😁


Has this assumption been properly validated Mark, what was the sample size? Introducing bias makes for a good recipe for a shite UX. I'm pretty sure you are aware of that, right?  Maybe a good idea to run a design sprint or two to find out..... 

About to watch Guy humming and hawing, so let's see what this is all about..


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Proper English brewski:

Boil water in kettle
Pour in cup with teabag (or in teapot)
Ponch it and let brew for a few minutes
Remove teabag (unless in teapot)
Add a spot of milk.

Coffee is just black.


----------



## Markrs

quickbrownf0x said:


> Has this assumption been properly validated Mark, what was the sample size? Introducing bias makes for a good recipe for a shite UX. I'm pretty sure you are aware of that, right?  Maybe a good idea to run a design sprint or two to find out.....


I like your thinking... 😂


----------



## quickbrownf0x

Markrs said:


> I like your thinking... 😂


We need 5-10 personas. At least. I'll call Andy to do all the heavy lifting. We'll just do a few slides to present to the business. So we'll have more to spend on VSTs. I'd say skip Opus and go for....  SSO Pro.  After all - there's no such thing as too many mic positions.


----------



## cqd

Lewis Emblack said:


> Proper English brewski:
> 
> Boil water in kettle
> Pour in cup with teabag (or in teapot)
> Ponch it and let brew for a few minutes
> Remove teabag (unless in teapot)
> Add a spot of milk.
> 
> Coffee is just black.


Heat the cup first..


----------



## Markrs

quickbrownf0x said:


> We need 5-10 personas. At least. I'll call Andy to do all the heavy lifting. We'll just do a few slides to present to the business. So we'll have more to spend on VSTs. I'd say skip Opus and go for....  SSO Pro.  After all - there's no such thing as too many mic positions.


Remember to have personas that are used and abused by the business so they can ignore any real research and testing, as the execs deep down think they know all the answers anyway 😂


----------



## quickbrownf0x

Markrs said:


> Remember to have personas that are used and abused by the business so they can ignore any real research and testing, as the execs deep down we know all the answers anyway 😂


We do love our jobs, don't we?


----------



## Markrs

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I have to agree with @cqd here
> 
> Perhaps it is a Countryside, Suffolk... East Anglia thing


As I'm for Norkfolk I'm not sure if I should be impressed by the guess or insulted that you though I was from Suffolk! 😂


----------



## quickbrownf0x

Markrs said:


> As I'm for Norkfolk I'm not sure if I should be impressed by the guess or insulted that you though I was from a Suffolk! 😂


Yikes. Yet another persona. Poor Andy.


----------



## I like music

1. Go buy some Yorkshire Tea
2. Brew it in a mug (like the tasters do!)
3. Put milk in after 

I'm ready to go to war over this.


----------



## Markrs

I like music said:


> 1. Go buy some Yorkshire Tea
> 2. Brew it in a mug (like the tasters do!)
> 3. Put milk in after
> 
> I'm ready to go to war over this.


Heathen 😁


----------



## I like music

Markrs said:


> Heathen 😁


My wife is so anti. It is the biggest source of strife in our marriage (not joking either)


----------



## Leslie Fuller

Think we need a side thread for the Tea discussion!


----------



## jamieboo

Markrs said:


> As I'm for Norkfolk I'm not sure if I should be impressed by the guess or insulted that you though I was from Suffolk! 😂


What?!
Suffolk boy here!
The insult manifold is becoming compound and unruly!


----------



## SlHarder

SlHarder said:


> Has anyone successfully used Voice 2 in the Orchestrator Sequence Editor?
> 
> When I select Voice 2 I am unable to enter a sequence while Voice 1 acts as I would expect from the documentation.
> 
> I have not found a factory preset that uses Voice 2 either.


Solved:
Don't select a legato instrument, try a sustain.
Don't select "All Notes", use another selector like Middle 2.
Too many variations to detail but you get the jist.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

Is there a trick to making the reverb work with EW? I'm using the built-in reverb and whenever it's on, I get horrible popping and crackling. Same thing happens when I use Spaces II as an insert on a track. CPU usage is around 10% so it doesn't seem to be that, and things play just fine when I turn off reverb. What's going on? I'm using S1 for DAW, if it makes any difference.


----------



## mopsiflopsi

mopsiflopsi said:


> Is there a trick to making the reverb work with EW? I'm using the built-in reverb and whenever it's on, I get horrible popping and crackling. Same thing happens when I use Spaces II as an insert on a track. CPU usage is around 10% so it doesn't seem to be that, and things play just fine when I turn off reverb. What's going on? I'm using S1 for DAW, if it makes any difference.


Hmm, I don't have the same problem with the standalone player, so it must be a DAW issue. Can someone using Studio One let me know if there are any issues with using reverb (built-in or Spaces as insert) on tracks?


----------



## MauroPantin

mopsiflopsi said:


> Is there a trick to making the reverb work with EW? I'm using the built-in reverb and whenever it's on, I get horrible popping and crackling. Same thing happens when I use Spaces II as an insert on a track. CPU usage is around 10% so it doesn't seem to be that, and things play just fine when I turn off reverb. What's going on? I'm using S1 for DAW, if it makes any difference.





mopsiflopsi said:


> Hmm, I don't have the same problem with the standalone player, so it must be a DAW issue. Can someone using Studio One let me know if there are any issues with using reverb (built-in or Spaces as insert) on tracks?


Just out of curiosity, is there any particular reason you are using the verb as an insert? It's much less CPU efficient. Not sure how S1 distributes computing power among effects and such, but it could be related to that. Using verb as an insert and/or using the built-in one is just about the same thing in terms of efficacy.

One thing you could try: There is a setting in OPUS called "Multithreaded Reverb" that you might want to check out in the Preferences section. And if I recall correctly Spaces II has a multithreading setting, too, as well as a "Low CPU mode" that adds latency but alleviates the CPU hit. Toggling those might help.


----------



## ennbr

mopsiflopsi said:


> Hmm, I don't have the same problem with the standalone player, so it must be a DAW issue. Can someone using Studio One let me know if there are any issues with using reverb (built-in or Spaces as insert) on tracks?


So no issues on my 6 core 32gb Mackbook Pro running Studio One no popping or crackling I'll make sure I pay more attention though


----------



## mopsiflopsi

MauroPantin said:


> Just out of curiosity, is there any particular reason you are using the verb as an insert?


Because I'm new and I don't know what I'm doing?  Also wanted to see if it'd make a difference in terms of pops and crackles.

Meanwhile the problem kinda magically disappeared without me changing anything in OPUS settings... It feels like S1 is a little less predictable on my computer after the last update. But anyways, all's well now.


----------



## MauroPantin

mopsiflopsi said:


> Because I'm new and I don't know what I'm doing?  Also wanted to see if it'd make a difference in terms of pops and crackles.


Sorry, didn't mean it in a bad way. =) Try to use a bus and see if that helps. Even if you're not getting artifacts, it's always a good idea to have as lean and efficient a template as possible


----------



## mopsiflopsi

MauroPantin said:


> Sorry, didn't mean it in a bad way. =) Try to use a bus and see if that helps. Even if you're not getting artifacts, it's always a good idea to have as lean and efficient a template as possible


No offense taken! I really don't know what I'm doing with a lot of this stuff. When I run into problems it's hard for me to tell sometimes if it's the library, or the DAW, or just my own cluelessness. So thanks for the suggestions. I know I should take a course on the technical side of things at some point. It's one of those things I'm putting off. So much to learn!


----------



## emilio_n

Maybe a super-stupid-basic question here.
I installed the demo of Studio One. Some things are quite intuitive but I can't figure out how to split a track recorded in the Orchestrator into multiple tracks with each instrument.

As this is impossible to do on Logic, I just wanted to see how is on Studio One.
Someone that if it can give me a little bit of light?


----------



## bdev

emilio_n said:


> Maybe a super-stupid-basic question here.
> I installed the demo of Studio One. Some things are quite intuitive but I can't figure out how to split a track recorded in the Orchestrator into multiple tracks with each instrument.
> 
> As this is impossible to do on Logic, I just wanted to see how is on Studio One.
> Someone that if it can give me a little bit of light?


There is no Omni mode for midi recording in Studio One (well I think as I recently migrated to S1 from Cubase). The solution is to use the add track dialog window to create 16 tracks in a folder and set the input to Opus channel 1 with the Ascending option. Then you have to arm all the tracks and record. The 16 midi channels from Orchestrator will be recorded separately.
It seems heavy but ultimately it is very easy and effective in my opinion.


----------



## zimm83

bdev said:


> There is no Omni mode for midi recording in Studio One (well I think as I recently migrated to S1 from Cubase). The solution is to use the add track dialog window to create 16 tracks in a folder and set the input to Opus channel 1 with the Ascending option. Then you have to arm all the tracks and record. The 16 midi channels from Orchestrator will be recorded separately.
> It seems heavy but ultimately it is very easy and effective in my opinion.


With this you can use Orchestrator on 16 (or more !!! ) additional instruments from other libraries ....in real time. Great ! 32 tracks at the same time on 32 different instruments. Fantastic !


----------



## emilio_n

bdev said:


> There is no Omni mode for midi recording in Studio One (well I think as I recently migrated to S1 from Cubase). The solution is to use the add track dialog window to create 16 tracks in a folder and set the input to Opus channel 1 with the Ascending option. Then you have to arm all the tracks and record. The 16 midi channels from Orchestrator will be recorded separately.
> It seems heavy but ultimately it is very easy and effective in my opinion.


Trying to do it, but by the moment without success... lol
I will play around but the problem is I really don't know how Studio One works.


----------



## bdev

emilio_n said:


> Trying to do it, but by the moment without success... lol
> I will play around but the problem is I really don't know how Studio One works.


Just a second I am preparing an how to


----------



## cqd

Must say..after playing around with it a bit..the legato in the orchestrator isn't that great..probably go more the manual route with that I think..

It's OK if you're playing it and the whole patch is legato, but as one layer not really..


----------



## bdev

_..How to record Orchestrator in Studio One.. << Trying to do it, but by the moment without success... lol
I will play around but the problem is I really don't know how Studio One works. 
>>_

I'm not an expert on how to write an "how to"...

1- Add the Orchestrator instrument into Studio One1 track and choose an Ostinato or whatever you want.
2 - Press the "T" key to open the dialog box and follow the image 1




3 - You will get the 16 track. Arm them and play a chord in the track Orchestrator. That'all, each track of the Orchestrator will be recorded to the corresponding channels.
y


----------



## Toecutter

bdev said:


> There is no Omni mode for midi recording in Studio One (well I think as I recently migrated to S1 from Cubase). The solution is to use the add track dialog window to create 16 tracks in a folder and set the input to Opus channel 1 with the Ascending option. Then you have to arm all the tracks and record. The 16 midi channels from Orchestrator will be recorded separately.
> It seems heavy but ultimately it is very easy and effective in my opinion.


How's the Opus in Studio One? Issues? Curious to hear your thoughts since you moved from Cubase (any particular reasons?)


----------



## bdev

Toecutter said:


> How's the Opus in Studio One? Issues? Curious to hear your thoughts since you moved from Cubase (any particular reasons?)


Regarding Opus in Studio One, I did not encounter the difficulties that others had with the installation. I first took a one month subscription to try Opus Gold and as it went well I bought the Diamond version upgrade. I haven't tested everything yet because I've only had it for 4 days. Overall I am very happy that I bought it. The new Opus reader is really intuitive and pleasant to use. The orchestrator is going to be of great service to me because I am not a great professional. As far as the sounds are concerned, I have always liked Hollywood Strings and now they are much easier to use with excellent articulations management. However I now have over 20 violin libraries (from Spitfire Audio, Orchestral tools etc.), so I will continue to use them as well.
I am answering your question relating to what I think about my migration from Cubase to Studio One and well it's a bit of a heartbreak because I have been working with Cubase for more than 20 years, I bought all the upgrades and even Nuendo. I will keep them because I have a lot of old projects in Cubase. However, I was disappointed with the evolution of Cubase so I wanted to try S1 version 5 and I was dazzled by its ease of use, it is well thought out and finally I find it very powerful even if for the currently in version 5.2 it is limited to stereo recording for example.
When I run S1 in the morning I smile like when I launched CUBASE 15 years ago.


----------



## Toecutter

bdev said:


> When I run S1 in the morning I smile like when I launched CUBASE 15 years ago.


That made me smile!  Thanks a lot for the detailed opinion, I've been thinking about S1 for a good while, Presonus is doing a lot of things right that I don't like about Cubase. The only thing holding me back is that most people I collaborate with still use Cubase and Logic. Hope someday a high profile composer like Hans Zimmer will give S1 a shot and work together with Presonus...


----------



## bdev

Toecutter said:


> That made me smile!  Thanks a lot for the detailed opinion, I've been thinking about S1 for a good while, Presonus is doing a lot of things right that I don't like about Cubase. The only thing holding me back is that most people I collaborate with still use Cubase and Logic. Hope someday a high profile composer like Hans Zimmer will give S1 a shot and work together with Presonus...


I agree with you, for the moment the choice is not simple


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Jeez, I've compared my HOD Play version with Opus CCX (Gold), and I didn't realize how much more efficient Play is until now. Not sure why, but the Opus Gold patches take up a huge amount of memory.


----------



## Evans

I'm very happy with the overall updates to the interface/engine, but dang I get CPU spikes on my i9-9900. That's unacceptable.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Evans said:


> I'm very happy with the overall updates to the interface/engine, but dang I get CPU spikes on my i9-9900. That's unacceptable.


Yep, it’s disappointing. Getting spikes on my i7 10700k.


----------



## babylonwaves




----------



## AndyP

Very happy here, no spikes. Buffer size in Cubase 384.


----------



## AndyP

M4T said:


> Works better than V1. This a cool way to directly route individual midi channels from the orchestrators to any instrument. You can use Kontakt if you like or any plugin.



This works great! I use with the ensembles in Orchestrator and route the tracks directly to various tracks from Opus and Kontakt. You don't even have to record the OPUS orchestrator track. The signals are routed directly so that you can play and record the tracks you have assigned via transformer.
This is really cool for writing divisi and layering Strings with Brass and Woodwinds.
Also building ostinatos right now and this is a real time saver. Next I will build string and woodwind runs. This is the perfect tool for that.


----------



## AndyP

To refine string ostinatos, for example, I create an external track of the strings with Spic/Marc MOD, route the orchestrator channel to it, and then use the modwheel to change and record the length of the notes directly while running the ostinato from the orchestrator. Wonderful.


----------



## Sub3OneDay

So, just trying to figure this out as can’t find real clarity on the website - is the CCGold X close and tree mics? And then extra mics for the plus version? Or is there more than that included for the plus?

Is there a comparison chart anywhere? Just want to know what I’m going to miss out on if I don’t subscribe to the plus version...


----------



## alcorey

Sub3OneDay said:


> So, just trying to figure this out as can’t find real clarity on the website - is the CCGold X close and tree mics? And then extra mics for the plus version? Or is there more than that included for the plus?
> 
> Is there a comparison chart anywhere? Just want to know what I’m going to miss out on if I don’t subscribe to the plus version...


The Gold edition (available for purchase or within the ComposerCloud subscription) has 16-bit samples and one microphone position. Gold X (only available with a ComposerCloud X Subscription) adds one additional mic position. The Diamond version, which you can purchase or access with the ComposerCloud Plus subscription, is 24-bit samples with all mic positions.

Be aware that the plus version @24 bit loads almost a Terabyte of samples and adding some of the other Diamond libraries can come close to filling up a 2TB SSD

Heres screenshots of what I have loaded and how much drive space it uses


----------



## Sub3OneDay

alcorey said:


> The Gold edition (available for purchase or within the ComposerCloud subscription) has 16-bit samples and one microphone position. Gold X (only available with a ComposerCloud X Subscription) adds one additional mic position. The Diamond version, which you can purchase or access with the ComposerCloud Plus subscription, is 24-bit samples with all mic positions.
> 
> Be aware that the plus version @24 bit loads almost a Terabyte of samples and adding some of the other Diamond libraries can come close to filling up a 2TB SSD
> 
> Heres screenshots of what I have loaded and how much drive space it uses



Thanks - yes - should have noted that I’d clocked the 24bit difference too - but what is the additional mic position it adds? And does it add anything else, like additional articulations?


----------



## MauroPantin

Using Gold sections have the "Mid" as the default and some others have the "Main" mic as default, which always bothered me a bit. CloudX allows you to get the Close mics as well as the default mic for each section. 

Plus gives you everything. Close, Mid, Main, Surround, Vintage and the new sections have a "Stage" option as well. Surround and Vintage are mutually exclusive in their usage but other than that you can mix and match.


----------



## Toecutter

MauroPantin said:


> Using Gold sections have the "Mid" as the default and some others have the "Main" mic as default, which always bothered me a bit. CloudX allows you to get the Close mics as well as the default mic for each section.
> 
> Plus gives you everything. Close, Mid, Main, Surround, Vintage and the new sections have a "Stage" option as well. Surround and Vintage are mutually exclusive in their usage but other than that you can mix and match.


Thanks, so Cloud X will be Close mics for all sections and random Mid and Main? 

I will probably stick to Cloud X (currently testing Plus) so I will have to delete the 944GB and redownload 242GB? Manual says

Approximately 944 Gigabytes (GB) of 24-bit, 44.1 kHz samples (Diamond)
Approximately 130 Gigabytes (GB) of 16-bit, 44.1 kHz samples (Gold)
Approximately 242 Gigabytes (GB) of 16-bit, 44.1 kHz samples (GoldX) 

It will be great if I can free up 700GB of space, I'm unable to use more than 2 microphones anyway XD


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

The Moods in Opus do make a difference (I find them very helpful) - I think Diamond is worth it for that. I made the mistake of trying to get Gold versions first and then in the end, wanted Diamond anyway. Get what you think you'll want a year or two from now from the outset. It'll save you money.


----------



## Toecutter

Good point, reading the manual again it seems that with GoldX you could use moods, minus surround mic. Gold has only one microphone, so Moods is disabled?

Classic
An instrument will load in CLASSIC mood by default. It’s the sound of the original Hollywood Orchestra, with settings that are well suited for a studio orchestra sound. It features the *Main *microphones, a decca-tree plus outriggers mix providing a well balanced, unified sound, going through an *impulse response (IR) of a large hall in Southern California*, that has a relatively long, *3.4 second decay time.*

Soft
Soft Mood modifies the sound for slower, more emotional passages. Click on the SOFT mood to change the settings to lighter touch, providing definition and depth, with a combination of the *Mid and Surround *microphones, going through a *large hall with a 3.0 second decay time*.

Epic
Epic Mood gives you a sound perfectly suited for your next Action Adventure score. Click on the EPIC mood to change the settings to a more modern, epic sound. It delivers this large sound with presence and detail by pairing the *Main and Close *micro-phones, going through a *very large hall with a 3.8 second decay time*.

Great manual btw, very detailed


----------



## José Herring

Toecutter said:


> Thanks, so Cloud X will be Close mics for all sections and random Mid and Main?
> 
> I will probably stick to Cloud X (currently testing Plus) so I will have to delete the 944GB and redownload 242GB? Manual says
> 
> Approximately 944 Gigabytes (GB) of 24-bit, 44.1 kHz samples (Diamond)
> Approximately 130 Gigabytes (GB) of 16-bit, 44.1 kHz samples (Gold)
> Approximately 242 Gigabytes (GB) of 16-bit, 44.1 kHz samples (GoldX)
> 
> It will be great if I can free up 700GB of space, I'm unable to use more than 2 microphones anyway XD


I'm a bit on the fence. I'm dying to try it out but at the same time I don't want to kill my EW Installs to install composer Cloud XXX Plus or whatever just to try it to see if I'm going to buy it. 

Then there's the fear that I'll get hooked on the easy access to all EW sounds and have to give up Hulu, Netflix and Disney Plus to compensate. 

Wow, this is a deep level first world problem for me. Or, should I just take a break from EW for a few years.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Toecutter said:


> Soft
> Soft Mood modifies the sound for slower, more emotional passages. Click on the SOFT mood to change the settings to lighter touch, providing definition and depth, with a combination of the *Mid and Surround *microphones, going through a *large hall with a 3.0 second decay time*.


I discovered that for HS Strings in CCX, this sets them to Con Sordino (CC15). Same as activating the Con Sordino button in Play.


----------



## Toecutter

José Herring said:


> I'm a bit on the fence. I'm dying to try it out but at the same time I don't want to kill my EW Installs to install composer Cloud XXX Plus or whatever just to try it to see if I'm going to buy it.
> 
> Then there's the fear that I'll get hooked on the easy access to all EW sounds and have to give up Hulu, Netflix and Disney Plus to compensate.
> 
> Wow, this is a deep level first world problem for me. Or, should I just take a break from EW for a few years.


I think it's worth it, I never used CC and I'm impressed with all the content, Opus is the library I'm using the least to be honest. Are you eligible for an EDU discount? that should make the decision easier... 9 bucks for all this stuff is no joke!


----------



## Toecutter

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I discovered that for HS Strings in CCX, this sets them to Con Sordino (CC15). Same as activating the Con Sordino button in Play.


Thanks for checking, this is very useful information! Classic and Epic are like described in the manual?


----------



## alcorey

bdev said:


> _..How to record Orchestrator in Studio One.. << Trying to do it, but by the moment without success... lol
> I will play around but the problem is I really don't know how Studio One works.
> >>_
> 
> I'm not an expert on how to write an "how to"...
> 
> 1- Add the Orchestrator instrument into Studio One1 track and choose an Ostinato or whatever you want.
> 2 - Press the "T" key to open the dialog box and follow the image 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3 - You will get the 16 track. Arm them and play a chord in the track Orchestrator. That'all, each track of the Orchestrator will be recorded to the corresponding channels.
> y


I do what you instruct but I only get the midi out on the 1st channel - it doesn't split into the separate midi channels (as shown below). I'm on a Mac...not sure if that makes a difference. Anybody have this working properly on a Mac. I don't use Studio 1, I just downloaded a trial for a month with Presonus Sphere. I imagine I'm doing something wrong - but I don't know what???


----------



## reids

Ok, lets hear some demos already of Hoopus. Anyone here have some demos they've been testing, noodling, or any short mockups to share? I'd like to know what "improvements" or "upgrades" have been made to Hollywood Orchestra besides the new Orchestrator which I would have no use for. And there is still no official walkthrough of the actual product and the "new/improved" content besides Orchestrator. And the website has only 1 measly demo.


----------



## zimm83

In the manual they say that gold has less instruments. 1200 v 1800....Is it true ? Are the new sections Not included ?


----------



## maximuss

I can't wait for the day when somebody will develop a library like noteperformer with great sounding instruments so I don't have to mess with all this midi programming!!


----------



## ennbr

alcorey said:


> I'm on a Mac...not sure if that makes a difference. Anybody have this working properly on a Mac.


From my limited testing it does work on a Mac. Not sure why the Input is called ( Opus | Midi Callback ) on your system. Were you given the option of selecting the first midi channel when setting up the input this is how it looks my system looks mine shows ( Opus | CH1 ) after it's selected.


----------



## emilio_n

alcorey said:


> I do what you instruct but I only get the midi out on the 1st channel - it doesn't split into the separate midi channels (as shown below). I'm on a Mac...not sure if that makes a difference. Anybody have this working properly on a Mac. I don't use Studio 1, I just downloaded a trial for a month with Presonus Sphere. I imagine I'm doing something wrong - but I don't know what???


I think you need to use the VST to make it work. with Opus AU you only get the callback


----------



## hauspe

M4T said:


> Works better than V1. This a cool way to directly route individual midi channels from the orchestrators to any instrument. You can use Kontakt if you like or any plugin.



Great workaround and a possible way to export midi data, no question - thanks @M4T. Anyway @EastWestSupport should implement a useful and simple midi export function ASAP, not only because they proclaim the Orchestrator "is the perfect tool" which should all things make easier and simpler (especially when it comes to saving time which isn't). As long there is no such function I do not waste my spare time with unnecessary steps, I take a pass on it (for now of course, let's see what happens in future).


----------



## Frederick

I prefer playing the orchestrator MIDI output directly into instrument tracks in the DAW over MIDI export, so I'm happy with the current implementation. Of course, I would have said something else if my DAW wouldn't have supported this solution. I feel EastWest should offer a way that works for everyone.


----------



## ennbr

hauspe said:


> I do not waste my spare time with unnecessary steps


I don't waste time with extra steps either I setup a default project in Studio One with OPUS and Orchestrator selected and 16 sub tracks already defined. So I select a preset or create my own press record and I'm finished. No extra steps as a matter of fact it would be an extra step if I had to drag and drop tracks out of Orchestrator into separate tracks.


----------



## AndyP

hauspe said:


> Great workaround and a possible way to export midi data, no question - thanks @M4T. Anyway @EastWestSupport should implement a useful and simple midi export function ASAP, not only because they proclaim the Orchestrator "is the perfect tool" which should all things make easier and simpler (especially when it comes to saving time which isn't). As long there is no such function I do not waste my spare time with unnecessary steps, I take a pass on it (for now of course, let's see what happens in future).


I find this solution more elegant than, for example, the midi export from TOC. Because the midi channels are cleanly separated, there are no overlaps. Once the external tracks are created, I can use them immediately and already hear while playing whether they fit together, or whether I want to swap instruments / articulations.
The effort to set up may be a little higher initially, but in the end you save a lot of time, especially if you make changes to the orchestrator.


----------



## AndyP

ennbr said:


> I don't waste time with extra steps either I setup a default project in Studio One with OPUS and Orchestrator selected and 16 sub tracks already defined. So I select a preset or create my own press record and I'm finished. No extra steps as a matter of fact it would be an extra step if I had to drag and drop tracks out of Orchestrator into separate tracks.


+1


----------



## hauspe

AndyP said:


> I find this solution more elegant than, for example, the midi export from TOC. Because the midi channels are cleanly separated, there are no overlaps. Once the external tracks are created, I can use them immediately and already hear while playing whether they fit together, or whether I want to swap instruments / articulations.
> The effort to set up may be a little higher initially, but in the end you save a lot of time, especially if you make changes to the orchestrator.


Thanks for the feedback, probably I should make an other try before giving up, lol


----------



## hauspe

as long there is no alternative it works not as bad as I thought...


----------



## manuhz

Toecutter said:


> I will probably stick to Cloud X (currently testing Plus) so I will have to delete the 944GB and redownload 242GB? Manual says


Are you testing Plus? How that?


----------



## Audio Birdi

Are others getting extremely large save files of DAW / VEP project files with Opus Player?

Play with my template loaded = 30mb in size for the VEP Server file.

Opus with the same template load = 300mb in size for the VEP server file.

I'm wondering if others have ran into this issue?


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Huh...decided to have a play with the other libraries in OPUS, and a number of patches in RA either crash it (both in and out of daw), and I have now experienced the white noise issue too. Tested PLAY and all the samples are fine so...🤷‍♀️


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Lewis Emblack said:


> Huh...decided to have a play with the other libraries in OPUS, and a number of patches in RA either crash it (both in and out of daw), and I have now experienced the white noise issue too. Tested PLAY and all the samples are fine so...🤷‍♀️


Did you download and install the latest updates from the installation center?


----------



## danwool

It's difficult to divine people's impressions from this gargantuan thread, but rather than start another I'll ask here...

Have the improvements to the Hollywood library for Opus promoted it to their go-to library for anyone? In other words, apart from what is gained from the Opus player has the sound of library been improved noticeably?...dramatically? Enough so that I should set aside any previous impressions of HW and reassess?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

danwool said:


> It's difficult to divine people's impressions from this gargantuan thread, but rather than start another I'll ask here...
> 
> Have the improvements to the Hollywood library for Opus promoted it to their go-to library for anyone? In other words, apart from what is gained from the Opus player has the sound of library been improved noticeably?...dramatically? Enough so that I should set aside any previous impressions of HW and reassess?


If you’re already well versed with HO, then you may hear some differences. Otherwise, it’s basically the same samples with the addition of a few new patches. IMO, not much has changed. I can hear a few legato fixes with the solo clarinet, for example. In addition to owning HOD, I’m on CCX, but have continued using HOD in Play (which I still really like. HS are still my go-to strings). Opus player is cool, especially the preview feature. Would I pay the $495 upgrade from Diamond? Hell no. However, I’ll gladly pay a reasonable upgrade fee for the player to run HOD when it’s available. Orchestrator is really cool, but it hit a dead end for me once I discovered you cannot export the MIDI into Logic.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

danwool said:


> It's difficult to divine people's impressions from this gargantuan thread, but rather than start another I'll ask here...
> 
> Have the improvements to the Hollywood library for Opus promoted it to their go-to library for anyone? In other words, apart from what is gained from the Opus player has the sound of library been improved noticeably?...dramatically? Enough so that I should set aside any previous impressions of HW and reassess?


If you didn't like the sound of HO previously, you won't change your mind with OPUS. HO however is generally highly regarded in terms of sound and depth of sampling, so there was no expectation (on my end at least) that EW were going to mess with it. They had a few areas they didn't like so they recorded some additional content to plug those gaps. They also did fix some of the samples and editing in places where they could (without re-recording the entire thing). What has made me finally add it to my template is the Opus player, which blows away Play for me in terms of workflow. So was it worth the money to me to have the library integrated into my workflow now instead of never used? 100% (I've also mentioned before that my total price is just a few bucks more than the sale new license price, which is very fair IMO). Haven't dived too much into how to integrate the Orchestrator, but it certainly is a powerful tool that will only continue to get better I imagine.


----------



## alcorey

emilio_n said:


> I think you need to use the VST to make it work. with Opus AU you only get the callback


Thanks Emilio, that was it.....for some reason I was under the impression that we had to use audio units "only" on a Mac and that vst's were for PC's


----------



## racerx

alcorey said:


> Thanks Emilio, that was it.....for some reason I was under the impression that we had to use audio units "only" on a Mac and that vst's were for PC's


How do you make that choice in S1 between AU and VST?


----------



## alcorey

racerx said:


> How do you make that choice in S1 between AU and VST?


When you drag and drop the opus instrument to the track from the instruments panel...see below


----------



## ennbr

racerx said:


> How do you make that choice in S1 between AU and VST?


From the Studio One Browser / Instruments section if you single click on the Opus player name at the bottom of the Blower screen it will identify what plugin version you have selected VST2, VST3, or Audio Unit


----------



## danwool

ALittleNightMusic said:


> If you didn't like the sound of HO previously, you won't change your mind with OPUS. HO however is generally highly regarded in terms of sound and depth of sampling, so there was no expectation (on my end at least) that EW were going to mess with it. They had a few areas they didn't like so they recorded some additional content to plug those gaps. They also did fix some of the samples and editing in places where they could (without re-recording the entire thing). What has made me finally add it to my template is the Opus player, which blows away Play for me in terms of workflow. So was it worth the money to me to have the library integrated into my workflow now instead of never used? 100% (I've also mentioned before that my total price is just a few bucks more than the sale new license price, which is very fair IMO). Haven't dived too much into how to integrate the Orchestrator, but it certainly is a powerful tool that will only continue to get better I imagine.


Thanks for this little assessment! And thanks to @Jeremy Spencer too. These are exactly what I was looking for. I'm a Composer Cloud user, but I use it almost exclusively for EW's non-orchestral libraries since I have other orchestral libraries that I prefer. Thx again


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Did you download and install the latest updates from the installation center?


Yup, I did as soon as they came out. On with Support at the moment and went through the process of reinstalling everything for them. Still no dice. Crashes in standalone and have to end the process in Task Manager to be able to start again, and also crashes Reaper.

An example of a patch that causes the crash is Africa> Plucked> Kora
An example of a patch that causes the white noise is Europe> Bowed> Hardanger Fdl> Hardanger KS C0-G#0 (the C0 Sus Vib it opens on)

At a bit of a loss at the moment.


----------



## MarcelM

got a quick question to the opus buyers. did EW actually balance the orchestra in opus?


----------



## José Herring

MarcelM said:


> got a quick question to the opus buyers. did EW actually balance the orchestra in opus?


Just finished installing it. I'm interested in this too. Will let you know.


----------



## José Herring

MarcelM said:


> got a quick question to the opus buyers. did EW actually balance the orchestra in opus?


After a quite 1/2 hour of fooling around with patches I can say that overall I love Opus. It's vastly improved in some areas and maybe not the "Quantum Leap" we'd expect in others. Strings balance is improved but not the greatest yet but better. Brass is on the verge of the best brass ever but it is also good in the Play version so no surprise there. Getting to WW and perc now.


----------



## ArtTurnerMusic

Does anyone have experience installing Opus/Composer Cloud on a slave computer and running it through VEP? It looks like you're only allowed one computer install and my slave computer has more drive space.


----------



## José Herring

ArtTurnerMusic said:


> Does anyone have experience installing Opus/Composer Cloud on a slave computer and running it through VEP? It looks like you're only allowed one computer install and my slave computer has more drive space.



Yeah, I put it on my slave over 2 1 terabyte drives. Had to drag my old install of EWHO to new drives but it was fairly seamless.

Overall Opus is vastly improved in strings, brass and percussion. The percussion imo is now one of the best collections of any company. The brass are great. Minor improvements. No legato that I can see in the new 2 trombone patch but honestly, doesn't bother me. 

The woodwinds. I won't say bad things about it but I will say it's not keeping up with the synchron CSW pack.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

José Herring said:


> Overall Opus is vastly improved in strings


In what way?


----------



## WillMah Gold

Hi,
please forgive me If that question asked perhaps a 100times before but after I dwld and installed Opus, how can I tell Opus that I have the libs already installed because they doesn't show up in Opus?
Is there a trick?
Oh, and whem I want to dwld a ptach, there is a error: can't find license etc. 
I had updated my subscription from x to plus 3 months ago. 
Any ideas?
Thanks for the help!


----------



## cqd

WillMah Gold said:


> Hi,
> please forgive me If that question asked perhaps a 100times before but after I dwld and installed Opus, how can I tell Opus that I have the libs already installed because they doesn't show up in Opus?
> Is there a trick?
> Thanks for the help!


Did you install the Opus updates for them?..


----------



## Crossroads

After some time, I've made up my mind about the Orchestrator. It's a blessing in disguise. Why?

It shows you just how formulaic film scores have become. We've been doing the same things as composers and directors for so long, that it can be compressed into a single plugin instance.

It reminds me why I was tired of Hollywood years ago. It's time to move film in new directions, and with it, the music.


----------



## Evans

WillMah Gold said:


> Hi,
> please forgive me If that question asked perhaps a 100times before but after I dwld and installed Opus, how can I tell Opus that I have the libs already installed because they doesn't show up in Opus?
> Is there a trick?
> Oh, and whem I want to dwld a ptach, there is a error: can't find license etc.
> I had updated my subscription from x to plus 3 months ago.
> Any ideas?
> Thanks for the help!


Have you contacted EastWest Support via their web site? They're quite responsive.


----------



## maximuss

Crossroads said:


> After some time, I've made up my mind about the Orchestrator. It's a blessing in disguise. Why?
> 
> It shows you just how formulaic film scores have become. We've been doing the same things as composers and directors for so long, that it can be compressed into a single plugin instance.
> 
> It reminds me why I was tired of Hollywood years ago. It's time to move film in new directions, and with it, the music.


Yes, I believe you are correct, it all sounds the same and incredibly predictable.


----------



## WillMah Gold

WillMah Gold said:


> Hi,
> please forgive me If that question asked perhaps a 100times before but after I dwld and installed Opus, how can I tell Opus that I have the libs already installed because they doesn't show up in Opus?
> Is there a trick?
> Oh, and whem I want to dwld a ptach, there is a error: can't find license etc.
> I had updated my subscription from x to plus 3 months ago.
> Any ideas?
> Thanks for the help!


Okaay. Problem solved. After I deinstalled PLAY and OPUS and installed it again in this order, ALL the Libs are there and ready to play - YAYYY! 
Perhaps this is helpful to others with the same problem.
Thanks!


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Can anyone please check these RA patches in OPUS please and see if they work okay?

RA> Africa> Plucked> Kora
RA> Europe> Bowed> Hardanger Fdl> Hardanger KS C0-G#0 (the C0 Sus Vib it opens on)


----------



## TCMQL1

Lewis Emblack said:


> Can anyone please check these RA patches in OPUS please and see if they work okay?
> 
> RA> Africa> Plucked> Kora
> RA> Europe> Bowed> Hardanger Fdl> Hardanger KS C0-G#0 (the C0 Sus Vib it opens on)


The Kora crashes my Cubase after a couple notes. Hardanger KS is just white noise when I play any notes. Bizarre.


----------



## John57

Lewis Emblack said:


> Can anyone please check these RA patches in OPUS please and see if they work okay?
> 
> RA> Africa> Plucked> Kora
> RA> Europe> Bowed> Hardanger Fdl> Hardanger KS C0-G#0 (the C0 Sus Vib it opens on)


The Kora does not work right. Did not have time for the second. Open a support ticket


----------



## Rey

i am still considering to get opus hollywood. is there any improvement over sonuscore the orchestra 1 and 2 or is it just the same since they partnered with sonuscore for the orchestrator? hopefully someone can give some tips. thanks


----------



## Lewis Emblack

TCMQL1 said:


> The Kora crashes my Cubase after a couple notes. Hardanger KS is just white noise when I play any notes. Bizarre.


Yup, same here, along with a bunch more RA patches (seems to be RA only).



John57 said:


> The Kora does not work right. Did not have time for the second. Open a support ticket


I already have - they got me to go through reinstalling everything and redownloading the library to try and fix it saying something on my PC is corrupted. I wanted to check here to see if that is the case or, more likely, it is a more widespread one.


----------



## Nicholas Rio

Hi there, I have a problem downloading this library. I'm on Composer Cloud X Subscription, and I tried to download EW Hollywood Brass Opus Edition. When I try to use the Opus player, it prompts me to show the location of the Samples. I took a look into the Samples folder and found out that there's only 3 folders : 2 Trombones, 2 Trumpets_exp, and Solo Tuba Samples, and cannot found the other samples. I've tried re-downloading and re-installing the samples, but nothing have worked so far.
Anyone facing the same issue?


----------



## BrianSzep

Lewis,
Same problem with those patches on Opus player.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

BrianSzep said:


> Lewis,
> Same problem with those patches on Opus player.


There are others in RA too, but don't have the time to go through checking them all. Picked files at random from every other library and found no issues elsewhere.


----------



## José Herring

Jeremy Spencer said:


> In what way?


Easier to navigate. No unusable patches. Haven't found a patch that doesn't work. Even though there are far less patches I don't seem to miss any of the 1000's of other patches in the Play version. Does seem to be more balance patches overall. The Marc Sus patch is the only exception. The marc layer is way too loud compared to the sus and unlike in play I haven't been able to find a way to turn that louder articulation down in the Master KS patches. Also, there seems to be improved programming in the legato patches.


----------



## Evans

Official walkthrough:


----------



## José Herring

Overall even though I think my view will be controversial, I got Composer Cloud Plus to try HOOPUS out and I'm finding that it would be well worth the $500 upgrade. So contemplating since I already own a lot of the EW libraries I want if I should hold on to the subscription until HOOPUS goes on sale which will be in about a year if history repeats, or come up with the $500 clams this month and drop the subscription ASAP.


----------



## Crossroads

José Herring said:


> Overall even though I think my view will be controversial, I got Composer Cloud Plus to try HOOPUS out and I'm finding that it would be well worth the $500 upgrade. So contemplating since I already own a lot of the EW libraries I want if I should hold on to the subscription until HOOPUS goes on sale which will be in about a year if history repeats, or come up with the $500 clams this month and drop the subscription ASAP.


I mean, there was a lot of frustration but holy heck do they show that they are still at the top. It sounds insanely good.


----------



## cqd

José Herring said:


> Overall even though I think my view will be controversial, I got Composer Cloud Plus to try HOOPUS out and I'm finding that it would be well worth the $500 upgrade. So contemplating since I already own a lot of the EW libraries I want if I should hold on to the subscription until HOOPUS goes on sale which will be in about a year if history repeats, or come up with the $500 clams this month and drop the subscription ASAP.


I really don't think it will be on sale for a good bit longer than that..it's their flagship product..maybe diamond being so cheap was just funding it the last few years..it's up there with the best of them..the orchestrator adds something..
It's really well priced as it is..I don't think we'll be seeing 60% off any time soon..


----------



## dzilizzi

José Herring said:


> Overall even though I think my view will be controversial, I got Composer Cloud Plus to try HOOPUS out and I'm finding that it would be well worth the $500 upgrade. So contemplating since I already own a lot of the EW libraries I want if I should hold on to the subscription until HOOPUS goes on sale which will be in about a year if history repeats, or come up with the $500 clams this month and drop the subscription ASAP.


The upgrade won't likely be on sale for a while if ever. EW is not known for good upgrade prices/sales. However, when the full Opus goes to 50/60% off, which is likely in the next year or two, based on prior libraries, you will be slightly over paying at 50% off and getting a great deal at 60% off (about $150 less than the $495 upgrade price). This is why I said heck with it and bought it now. But if you are already paying for and using Composers Cloud for other things, it might be worth waiting.


----------



## José Herring

Crossroads said:


> I mean, there was a lot of frustration but holy heck do they show that they are still at the top. It sounds insanely good.


Some of what I read I really feel that some didn't follow the manual when installing. I had no problems installing the only thing was that it destroyed by Play Tuba KS patch but the sister patch in Opus works just fine. 

Believe it or not that little blip was enough to convince me to switch my template to Opus so I'm replacing all my EWHO Play instances with Opus. Now that I have the Opus strings loaded, I can see there's a lot of improvement that made me realize I'm not going back to Play, ever again. 

The only thing I feel is that I bought EWHO Diamond thinking that I was going to need it to upgrade to HOOPUS but in the end, I could have just held off and gotten Opus. Would have saved my self 6 months of headaches. It's nice to have one master patch for strings. Just one track per section in my DAW instead of 10.


----------



## Braveheart

Evans said:


> Official walkthrough:



Very convincing. It sounds amazing!


----------



## José Herring

Also, as I go through the horn patches they are a lot more usable. I'm not doing a side by side comparison because I'm ditching Play faster than I thought I would and have no intention of loading it back up again. But it seems like the louder layer is now were it should be and the blend is a lot smoother making the middle dynamics at lot more accessible before the "buzz" starts. Smoother transitions.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

José Herring said:


> Also, as I go through the horn patches they are a lot more usable. I'm not doing a side by side comparison because I'm ditching Play faster than I thought I would and have no intention of loading it back up again. But it seems like the louder layer is now were it should be and the blend is a lot smoother making the middle dynamics at lot more accessible before the "buzz" starts. Smoother transitions.


Hmmmm...I've done a side by side with HB Gold, I don't hear any differences. I'm also finding Play is more CPU friendly on my mac.


----------



## José Herring

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Hmmmm...I've done a side by side with HB Gold, I don't hear any differences. I'm also finding Play is more CPU friendly on my mac.


Try the solo horn and the a2 patch. They are different. But the 6 horn is a little different but not enough for my taste. The top layer in the 6 hrn still kicks in too soon in Opus.


----------



## José Herring

Also, generally the solo leg horn fixed some fairly bad loop points from the Play version.


----------



## Evans

I haven't really messed around with the brass yet in Opus. I'm wondering if the solo horn legato has the same, odd volume dips (loud transitions and then a quiet sus) as EWHO/Play.


----------



## José Herring

Evans said:


> I haven't really messed around with the brass yet in Opus. I'm wondering if the solo horn legato has the same, odd volume dips (loud transitions and then a quiet sus) as EWHO/Play.


I just so happen to have it up and I'll post an example shortly.


----------



## José Herring

Oh, it just crashed. Trying to find the cause. I think I double recorded the midi in the DAW and Opus didn't like that.


----------



## José Herring

I'm also using an old version of VEPro I may need to upgrade it.


----------



## José Herring

Evans said:


> I haven't really messed around with the brass yet in Opus. I'm wondering if the solo horn legato has the same, odd volume dips (loud transitions and then a quiet sus) as EWHO/Play.


I did a naked technical demo of both side by side. I think the OPUS version seems a bit smoother but I got to tell you that it seems it might be psychological at this point. I did notice the Play version has glitches in it. Even when you aren't coming from a legato note it plays the transition before the attack of the separate note. Not sure why I never noticed that before today but then again I think Play had so many patches I probably just picked another patch to use.

Solo Hrn leg:
file 1 Opus
file 2 Play


----------



## Audio Birdi

José Herring said:


> Some of what I read I really feel that some didn't follow the manual when installing. I had no problems installing the only thing was that it destroyed by Play Tuba KS patch but the sister patch in Opus works just fine.
> 
> Believe it or not that little blip was enough to convince me to switch my template to Opus so I'm replacing all my EWHO Play instances with Opus. Now that I have the Opus strings loaded, I can see there's a lot of improvement that made me realize I'm not going back to Play, ever again.
> 
> The only thing I feel is that I bought EWHO Diamond thinking that I was going to need it to upgrade to HOOPUS but in the end, I could have just held off and gotten Opus. Would have saved my self 6 months of headaches. It's nice to have one master patch for strings. Just one track per section in my DAW instead of 10.


Agreed, having a Keysitch Master patch per instrument section / individual instrument, with it's own MIDI channel and own output allows for cutting down instances considerably! Especially with the ability to have 16 stereo outputs now too!


----------



## rnb_2

Rey said:


> i am still considering to get opus hollywood. is there any improvement over sonuscore the orchestra 1 and 2 or is it just the same since they partnered with sonuscore for the orchestrator? hopefully someone can give some tips. thanks


The Orchestrator is much more flexible and powerful than the Sonuscore engine in TOC1/2 - you can have up to 16 different sections — basically the whole orchestra — in a preset (vs. 5 in TOC) and you have a lot more control over which sections play which notes in a chord in Orchestrator. It's not just arpeggiators and envelopes.


----------



## Toecutter

José Herring said:


> I did a naked technical demo of both side by side. I think the OPUS version seems a bit smoother but I got to tell you that it seems it might be psychological at this point. I did notice the Play version has glitches in it. Even when you aren't coming from a legato note it plays the transition before the attack of the separate note. Not sure why I never noticed that before today but then again I think Play had so many patches I probably just picked another patch to use.
> 
> Solo Hrn leg:
> file 1 Opus
> file 2 Play


Is this the same midi performance? Opus is A LOT smoother, not psychological at all  The weird glitch in the first note is gone in Opus and the pause at 0:12 is actually a pause, wherein PLay it's disrupted by the glitch. 10/10 improvement!


----------



## José Herring

Toecutter said:


> Is this the same midi performance? Opus is A LOT smoother, not psychological at all  The weird glitch in the first note is gone in Opus and the pause at 0:12 is actually a pause, wherein PLay it's disrupted by the glitch. 10/10 improvement!


Yeah, just copied and pasted the midi. Had to raise the volume a little in the Opus version because it was a little softer. Scared me because audio was muted for about 5 seconds after I moved that fader. I thought it had crashed again. 

But I wanted to use the same midi so that I could judge side by side any differences.


----------



## Rey

rnb_2 said:


> The Orchestrator is much more flexible and powerful than the Sonuscore engine in TOC1/2 - you can have up to 16 different sections — basically the whole orchestra — in a preset (vs. 5 in TOC) and you have a lot more control over which sections play which notes in a chord in Orchestrator. It's not just arpeggiators and envelopes.



Thank you for the heads up @rnb_2. really interesting. i wonder if they will add more presets as time goes by for the orchestrator like sonuscore the orchestra did. i think i love to have a collection of presets


----------



## kingy10kingy

Is Opus balanced now? HWO was very unbalanced across the patches.


----------



## Nashi_VI

Nicholas Rio said:


> Hi there, I have a problem downloading this library. I'm on Composer Cloud X Subscription, and I tried to download EW Hollywood Brass Opus Edition. When I try to use the Opus player, it prompts me to show the location of the Samples. I took a look into the Samples folder and found out that there's only 3 folders : 2 Trombones, 2 Trumpets_exp, and Solo Tuba Samples, and cannot found the other samples. I've tried re-downloading and re-installing the samples, but nothing have worked so far.
> Anyone facing the same issue?


same here with most of the HO libraries


----------



## Rey

i have another question though, can opus works on HDD instead of SDD? and size of full install?


----------



## José Herring

Rey said:


> i have another question though, can opus works on HDD instead of SDD? and size of full install?


HOOPUS would kill any HDD even harder than the play version did. Opus if you're using it just for SD3 or something would probably be fine.

*edit: Originally wrote "SSD" when I meant "HDD". Corrected now.


----------



## Rey

José Herring said:


> HOOPUS would kill any HDD even harder than the play version did. Opus if you're using it just for SD3 or something would probably be fine.
> 
> *edit: Originally wrote "SSD" when I meant "HDD". Corrected now.


thanks. i gues ill have to get a ssd. whats the full size? 1 tb ssd enough?


----------



## Zamenhof

Rey said:


> thanks. i gues ill have to get a ssd. whats the full size? 1 tb ssd enough?


Yes, 1 TB is enough for the full monty. I recommend an internal SSD.


----------



## Zamenhof

Evans said:


> Official walkthrough:



And nine great demos on the excellent web player at their official site:
EastWest Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition


----------



## Stuart Honeyman

For those interested in what orchestrator is like to write with here is something I put together in 45 minutes this morning using the orchestrator.

Bearing in mind:

1. It would be faster if I was aware of a better method in Reaper to get the midi than recording midi output and then exploding the midi item/making all the instrument tracks/adding reverbs etc myself.
2. There are some timing issues at chord changes related to this which i'm too lazy to fix.
3. it's based on one of the triplet ostinatos - i've just added a bit of choir/french horn and taken some sections out here and there

Really what i'm waiting on to make it an actual usable thing is an efficient method for getting the midi out without any of the jank i resort to. Sounds like that's incoming for most, thought not confirmed for reaper yet unless i've misseed something.


----------



## szczaw

Opus doesn't have 'internal' midi recorder and midi export ?


----------



## dzilizzi

Rey said:


> i have another question though, can opus works on HDD instead of SDD? and size of full install?


When you first open, it asks if you're on SSD or HDD. It says RAM use will be higher if using HDD. At least it did it for me.


----------



## zimm83

Stuart Honeyman said:


> For those interested in what orchestrator is like to write with here is something I put together in 45 minutes this morning using the orchestrator.
> 
> Bearing in mind:
> 
> 1. It would be faster if I was aware of a better method in Reaper to get the midi than recording midi output and then exploding the midi item/making all the instrument tracks/adding reverbs etc myself.
> 2. There are some timing issues at chord changes related to this which i'm too lazy to fix.
> 3. it's based on one of the triplet ostinatos - i've just added a bit of choir/french horn and taken some sections out here and there
> 
> Really what i'm waiting on to make it an actual usable thing is an efficient method for getting the midi out without any of the jank i resort to. Sounds like that's incoming for most, thought not confirmed for reaper yet unless i've misseed something.


Great. Fast and efficient. Cool. Thanks.


----------



## Rey

Zamenhof said:


> Yes, 1 TB is enough for the full monty. I recommend an internal SSD.


thank you.


dzilizzi said:


> When you first open, it asks if you're on SSD or HDD. It says RAM use will be higher if using HDD. At least it did it for me.


nice to know you have option thanks @dzilizzi 

i also thinking of just purchase the gold version of opus. isnt the gold version just around 100gb if anyone can correct me?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

szczaw said:


> Opus doesn't have 'internal' midi recorder and midi export ?


No, there's no MIDI export unfortunately. There's a workaround people have found for getting the MIDI into Cubase and S1....but not possible with Logic.


----------



## Rey

Jeremy Spencer said:


> No, there's no MIDI export unfortunately. There's a workaround people have found for getting the MIDI into Cubase and S1....but not possible with Logic.


does our daw able to record the ostinatos and arps when we play using the orchestrator?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Rey said:


> does our daw able to record the ostinatos and arps when we play using the orchestrator?


No


----------



## Rey

on a side note, anyone aware of the 'not secure' notification next to the website url http://www.soundsonline.com/ ? is it safe i wonder why east west have the not secure message at their site


----------



## dzilizzi

Rey said:


> on a side note, anyone aware of the 'not secure' notification next to the website url http://www.soundsonline.com/ ? is it safe i wonder why east west have the not secure message at their site


The shop is secure. The main site is not.


----------



## AndyP

Rey said:


> does our daw able to record the ostinatos and arps when we play using the orchestrator?


This works in Cubase. For lack of another DAW I don't know if it works there too.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

AndyP said:


> This works in Cubase. For lack of another DAW I don't know if it works there too.


Does Cubase capture the midi in real-time? Or is there a couple of steps involved?


----------



## Evans

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Does Cubase capture the midi in real-time? Or is there a couple of steps involved?


You arm a new MIDI track to record from the Opus output, play it, then "Dissolve" the part into different channels (under the "MIDI" top-level menu item). 

After that, you just make your reassignments in the Cubase inspector pane.

I'm not aware of any way to pass it in realtime. That is, I don't think you could effectively silence Opus output and have it live play to, say, a Kontakt plugin loaded up with the Cinematic Studio series.


----------



## Nicholas Rio

Nashi_VI said:


> same here with most of the HO libraries


Have you find any workaround?


----------



## AndyP

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Does Cubase capture the midi in real-time? Or is there a couple of steps involved?


Look here, there it is super simply explained. So any instrument, whether Kontakt, OPUS, PLAY, SINE ... can be fed with the midi data from OPUS.

This way I can use the Orchesterator with String Divisi and record directly. You don't even have to record the OPUS Orchestrator track.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

AndyP said:


> Look here, there it is super simply explained. So any instrument, whether Kontakt, OPUS, PLAY, SINE ... can be fed with the midi data from OPUS.
> 
> This way I can use the Orchesterator with String Divisi and record directly. You don't even have to record the OPUS Orchestrator track.



I've seen this, but it's still a PITA. When EW said Orchestrator had a MIDI export feature, I assumed it was just that.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I've seen this, but it's still a PITA. When EW said Orchestrator had a MIDI export feature, I assumed it was just that.


It could be they tried, but the thing was too complicated with all the different midi tracks.


----------



## X-Bassist

dzilizzi said:


> It could be they tried, but the thing was too complicated with all the different midi tracks.


I am betting they are still working on it (midi export button/drag&drop- hopefully one button for each track as well as a multi midi export button, perhaps on each section header.) Opus would sell much better with these simple functions.

Hopefully this future update will coincide with a sale for those of us that bought HO but have no intention of subscribing to use opus. Even 20% off would be $100 off the upgrade, which is crazy expensive cosidering we’ve paid for most of the samples.

Plus for me the woodwinds and perc are not great, so midi export is essentail. I like the sound of the strings, presets and ostinatos, but $500 seems even crazier just to get that.


----------



## kingy10kingy

Evans said:


> You arm a new MIDI track to record from the Opus output, play it, then "Dissolve" the part into different channels (under the "MIDI" top-level menu item).
> 
> After that, you just make your reassignments in the Cubase inspector pane.
> 
> I'm not aware of any way to pass it in realtime. That is, I don't think you could effectively silence Opus output and have it live play to, say, a Kontakt plugin loaded up with the Cinematic Studio series.


For the price they are asking for , this should in built in already via pick up and drop midi files.


----------



## cqd

In fairness..the way it's implemented now is as good as any..drag and drop you'd be moving everything around(Cm here..then G here)..this way you play in the changes and you have your 16 channels of different midi out ready to go..

In many ways it's better actually..


----------



## ChristianM

Jeremy Spencer said:


> No


WTF ?


----------



## kingy10kingy

cqd said:


> In fairness..the way it's implemented now is as good as any..drag and drop you'd be moving everything around(Cm here..then G here)..this way you play in the changes and you have your 16 channels of different midi out ready to go..
> 
> In many ways it's better actually..


It's relying on cubase's disolve part feature to work though, there should be something easier built into Opus without having to do all these work arounds.


----------



## dzilizzi

kingy10kingy said:


> It's relying on cubase's disolve part feature to work though, there should be something easier built into Opus without having to do all these work arounds.


Wasn't there a way to send it out to multiple midi? I will have to play with it in ProTools this weekend to see if there is another way. Though after setting up my template with VE Pro in Cubase, I'm getting the hang of routing in it.


----------



## cqd

kingy10kingy said:


> It's relying on cubase's disolve part feature to work though, there should be something easier built into Opus without having to do all these work arounds.


Am.. Well, it's perfect in pro tools..(are ye sure you can't just open a midi track and route one channel into it?..
Man..I'm just playing around with some of the ensembles here..the orchestrator is just powerful..
Take one of the string ensembles..change the bass to pizz 8ths..add in low trombones and flutes..save..


----------



## cqd

dzilizzi said:


> Wasn't there a way to send it out to multiple midi? I will have to play with it in ProTools this weekend to see if there is another way. Though after setting up my template with VE Pro in Cubase, I'm getting the hang of routing in it.


You could probably use the same ve pro template in pt and just route inputs and outputs..


----------



## rnb_2

I'm far from proficient in these things, so it's entirely possible that I missed some issue that others would find objectionable, but in Studio One, I was able to put Opus on one track and turn the volume down, then start adding VSL BBO sections as separate tracks taking their midi in from the corresponding midi channels in Opus. Everything worked pretty smoothly.


----------



## chocobitz825

rnb_2 said:


> I'm far from proficient in these things, so it's entirely possible that I missed some issue that others would find objectionable, but in Studio One, I was able to put Opus on one track and turn the volume down, then start adding VSL BBO sections as separate tracks taking their midi in from the corresponding midi channels in Opus. Everything worked pretty smoothly.


yeah that midi routing is really easy in studio one....probably just as possible in other daws but maybe just not as straightforward.


----------



## rnb_2

chocobitz825 said:


> yeah that midi routing is really easy in studio one....probably just as possible in other daws but maybe just not as straightforward.


Yeah, my first attempt was so straightforward that I was really stumped when I tried to duplicate it in Logic and found that Logic....just....doesn't do that. At all.


----------



## dzilizzi

cqd said:


> You could probably use the same ve pro template in pt and just route inputs and outputs..


I don't have EW in the template yet. I decided to wait for HOOPUS and now I'm trying to decide whether to put it on the slave or master since having it on the master will make it easier to use the orchestrator.


----------



## Toecutter

My favorite Opus thing so far: Purge All Opus *Instances*

How I wish Kontakt did that...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

rnb_2 said:


> Yeah, my first attempt was so straightforward that I was really stumped when I tried to duplicate it in Logic and found that Logic....just....doesn't do that. At all.


Yep, I’ve tried with zero luck.


----------



## José Herring

Rey said:


> thanks. i gues ill have to get a ssd. whats the full size? 1 tb ssd enough?


I would get two 1tb SSDs and spread the library across the 2


----------



## Nashi_VI

Nicholas Rio said:


> Have you find any workaround?


nope


----------



## hag01

Hey, can we expect the first sale on Hollywood Orchestra upgrade to OPUS Edition on July 4?
And, can someone tell whether the OPUS edition is easier to program and easier to use multiple articulations via key-switch and such, compared to the first edition of Hollywood Orchestra?


----------



## dzilizzi

hag01 said:


> Hey, can we expect the first sale on Hollywood Orchestra upgrade to OPUS Edition on July 4?
> And, can someone tell whether the OPUS edition is easier to program and easier to use multiple articulations via key-switch and such, compared to the first edition of Hollywood Orchestra?


My usual answer is don't expect it lower than pre-order price for at least a year. However, Black Friday is 6 months away. Depending upon how the sales are going on this, it could be lower then.


----------



## cqd

dzilizzi said:


> My usual answer is don't expect it lower than pre-order price for at least a year. However, Black Friday is 6 months away. Depending upon how the sales are going on this, it could be lower then.


I hear they're going to start a black Thursday for this..


----------



## cqd

cqd said:


> I hear they're going to start a black Thursday for this..


Ah.. sh1t..thought this was the other thread..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

hag01 said:


> Hey, can we expect the first sale on Hollywood Orchestra upgrade to OPUS Edition on July 4?


It's on sale right now, I doubt you'll see another sale for quite a while on Opus.


----------



## dzilizzi

Oh, shoot, I missed the "upgrade" part - The next sale on upgrades? Maybe 3 years? You will see it at a cheaper price to buy the full version way before you see another upgrade sale. And the price will likely be the same as now. 

And? If you have HO Gold or Diamond, you may want another full version. They only give one iLok license.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I have a few questions about HOOPUS. 

So, those who are using HOOPUS, how do you like it so far, is the new OPUS player more efficient than PLAY ? 

Do you find the new samples content very useful ? and did they improve the original HO content in OPUS Orch. ? 

What are the advantages of joining the EW-Composer Cloud ? or is it better to just purchase the upgrade from HODiamond to HOOPUS. ? 

Can the sections of the orchestra of HOOPUS , i.e. Strings, Brass , Woodwinds, Perc. be installed on separate SSDs, and if needed also on a Master and Slave PC System ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a few questions about HOOPUS.
> 
> So, those who are using HOOPUS, how do you like it so far, is the new OPUS player more efficient than PLAY ?
> 
> Do you find the new samples content very useful ? and did they improve the original HO content in OPUS Orch. ?
> 
> What are the advantages of joining the EW-Composer Cloud ? or is it better to just purchase the upgrade from HODiamond to HOOPUS. ?
> 
> Can the sections of the orchestra of HOOPUS , i.e. Strings, Brass , Woodwinds, Perc. be installed on separate SSDs, and if needed also on a Master and Slave PC System ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


Everything you’ve asked is discussed many times in this thread


----------



## muziksculp

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Everything you’ve asked is discussed many times in this thread


OK, So do I need to go look for the answers in this 308 Page thread ?


----------



## Rtomproductions

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a few questions about HOOPUS.
> 
> So, those who are using HOOPUS, how do you like it so far, is the new OPUS player more efficient than PLAY ?
> 
> Do you find the new samples content very useful ? and did they improve the original HO content in OPUS Orch. ?
> 
> What are the advantages of joining the EW-Composer Cloud ? or is it better to just purchase the upgrade from HODiamond to HOOPUS. ?
> 
> Can the sections of the orchestra of HOOPUS , i.e. Strings, Brass , Woodwinds, Perc. be installed on separate SSDs, and if needed also on a Master and Slave PC System ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


I'll just say this: if you don't own many EW products, it usually just makes sense to go with a CC subscription. Hell, I bought HO back in the day when it was somewhere north of $1500 (along with Silk and Stormdrum 3 I think) and I still went with a CC subscription...


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a few questions about HOOPUS.
> 
> Can the sections of the orchestra of HOOPUS , i.e. Strings, Brass , Woodwinds, Perc. be installed on separate SSDs, and if needed also on a Master and Slave PC System ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


This one I can answer. I have it on multiple SSD's as the install process needed a little more room. But if you install it to say a spinning drive, copy it to the SSD and relocate using the EW Installation Center, you could fit it on one 1TB drive. It will be tight. 

There is only one iLok license. If you have no problem moving the license back and forth between master and slave, you could have it in both places. If you want to use the orchestrator, you probably should have it on one computer with the libraries. And? the libraries and orchestrator could be on one external SSD that could be switched as needed. You would just need to move the license. 


They other questions, I don't feel qualified to answer. I pretty much own the EW libraries I like. I don't like the fact that if I don't pay a month for composer cloud, I lose all access. On the other hand? You get a lot of libraries for your monthly fee. But after a few years of paying? You could have bought them all.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @dzilizzi ,



dzilizzi said:


> There is only one iLok license.


OK, Thanks. 

This means I can only use it on one computer, I can't have a Master-Slave system.



dzilizzi said:


> You get a lot of libraries for your monthly fee. But after a few years of paying? You could have bought them all.


I agree. But, I'm guessing another benefit of their Subscription option is there is no need for an iLok, so one can download these libraries on multiple drives, and computers without the iLok license restriction, or is that not possible ?


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> Hi @dzilizzi ,
> 
> 
> OK, Thanks.
> 
> This means I can only use it on one computer, I can't have a Master-Slave system.
> 
> 
> I agree. But, I'm guessing another benefit of their Subscription option is there is no need for an iLok, so one can download these libraries on multiple drives, and computers without the iLok license restriction, or is that not possible ?


I'm thinking they control the subscription through iLok. That is how ProTools does it.


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> I'm thinking they control the subscription through iLok. That is how ProTools does it.


Oh. I see. 

Thanks.


----------



## Trash Panda

So even the subscription is tied to a single machine activation? Seriously?


----------



## rnb_2

Trash Panda said:


> So even the subscription is tied to a single machine activation? Seriously?


Yes - it's still tied to iLok for activation. Needless to say, I'm looking forward to VSL moving to iLok later this year so I can just carry one USB dongle between machines instead of two.


----------



## Trash Panda

rnb_2 said:


> Yes - it's still tied to iLok for activation. Needless to say, I'm looking forward to VSL moving to iLok later this year so I can just carry one USB dongle between machines instead of two.


I’m fine with iLok machine activations, but even limiting the CC subscription to a single machine is a bit much when there is the option to allow multiple machine activations or iLok cloud.


----------



## muziksculp

Well, I was hoping that the new HOOPUS system is a big improvement over the older PLAY system, especially if OPUS is a more efficient player than PLAY, anyone test this important detail ?


----------



## dzilizzi

Trash Panda said:


> So even the subscription is tied to a single machine activation? Seriously?


if you have the dongle, you can move it as needed. Also, with iLok, it is fairly easy to move the license from one machine to the other. 

Looking at my iLok, I have 2 each for the HO strings, brass, winds and percussion - this I had before the upgrade - and one Opus. I also have 2 Play 6 licenses, but I also own HO Choirs Diamond. Everything else I own is only one license (HO gold, EWQLSO/Choir, Spaces/SpacesII, etc...)

I am not sure if the HOD came with 2 sets of licenses or if there was a goof and I got two. I'll probably run the Play version on my slave and the Opus version on my master, as the orchestrator would be better on the master.


----------



## dzilizzi

Trash Panda said:


> I’m fine with iLok machine activations, but even limiting the CC subscription to a single machine is a bit much when there is the option to allow multiple machine activations or iLok cloud.


Cloud is not showing as an option for HOOPUS.


----------



## Trash Panda

HOD only comes with one license, so Paul the licensing guy probably made a mistake.


----------



## dzilizzi

Trash Panda said:


> HOD only comes with one license, so Paul the licensing guy probably made a mistake.


Well, I am certainly not going to complain.


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> Well, I am certainly not going to complain.


You got very lucky.


----------



## rnb_2

Trash Panda said:


> I’m fine with iLok machine activations, but even limiting the CC subscription to a single machine is a bit much when there is the option to allow multiple machine activations or iLok cloud.


Yeah, I almost decided to ignore Opus when I realized that it would be a bit of a pain with my two system setup, but in the end, I treated it as impetus to grab an iLok key and start moving my single licenses onto it, in preparation for VSL's move. Having seen too many instances of iLok Cloud being down, I'm not sure I'm willing to go that route when it becomes available. Things are complicated by the fact that EW only supports machine/key, and VSL is only going to support key/cloud, so getting a key in hand seemed prudent.


----------



## muziksculp

I'm guessing the new OPUS Orchestrator forced them to consolidate all the iLok licenses into one license. I have 4 iLok licenses, one for each of the HODiamond version, so Stirngs, Brass, Woodwinds, and Perc. If I buy OPUS, I get one iLok License, and will have to have OPUS run on one Computer, but I think I can split the sections on multiple SSDs on one machine, (correct) ?


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> I'm guessing the new OPUS Orchestrator forced them to consolidate all the iLok licenses into one license. I have 4 iLok licenses, one for each of the HODiamond version, so Stirngs, Brass, Woodwinds, and Perc. If I buy OPUS, I get one iLok License, and will have to have OPUS run on one Computer, but I think I can split the sections on multiple SSDs on one machine, (correct) ?


Oh, I meant I had 2 each for each section of HOD. So when I set up my slave, I left one on the main iLok and put the second on the slave iLok that really only had a couple of things on it.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

muziksculp said:


> Well, I was hoping that the new HOOPUS system is a big improvement over the older PLAY system, especially if OPUS is a more efficient player than PLAY, anyone test this important detail ?


It is much better. It has proper purge. It has patch previews. It loads way faster. You can automated mic volumes. You can set up custom articulations for any keyswitch patch in the entire CC collection. The CPU usage is generally similar, but I think they'll continue to improve that too.


----------



## pistacchio

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It loads way faster.


Is this a common experience? I am
Setting up instances of Opus in a Cubase template (all disabled), and enabling or duplicating them freezes Cubase for like 10 seconds. By far the slowest VST in my library at the moment, to the point of making it a pain to use.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

pistacchio said:


> Is this a common experience? I am
> Setting up instances of Opus in a Cubase template (all disabled), and enabling or duplicating them freezes Cubase for like 10 seconds. By far the slowest VST in my library at the moment, to the point of making it a pain to use.


From what I've read, yes, it is a common experience that Opus loads MUCH faster than Play. I also have a disabled template in Cubase and Opus does not freeze the DAW for 10 seconds or anything like that.


----------



## ennbr

muziksculp said:


> I'm guessing the new OPUS Orchestrator forced them to consolidate all the iLok licenses into one license. I have 4 iLok licenses, one for each of the HODiamond version, so Stirngs, Brass, Woodwinds, and Perc. If I buy OPUS, I get one iLok License, and will have to have OPUS run on one Computer, but I think I can split the sections on multiple SSDs on one machine, (correct) ?


I still have iLok licenses for each of the Diamond modules Strings, Brass, Wood, Perc and a new entry for Opus. Yes the files can be spit across different drives BUT the OPUS install will just add new content to your existing Diamond directories

Question why not just put your licenses on a USB iLok and move the USB key to whatever computer your working on.


----------



## muziksculp

ennbr said:


> Question why not just put your licenses on a USB iLok and move the USB key to whatever computer your working on.


Yes, I have all my HO-Diamond Licenses consolidated on one iLok, which I can move to any Computer I have the libraries installed on.

I'm not using any of these libraries at this time, so I will have to re-install the diamond versions, plus the OPUS if I buy it, the various sections can be installed on separate SSDs on my Main DAW PC, no more slave PCs for OPUS, so there is no issue, but... I'm still evaluating things, I'm not sure I will use this library, so I'm just thinking abut it for now, I have many other Orchestral Options, I'm currently leaning toward using the Spitfire Audio BBCSO Pro as my main Go-To Orch. library.


----------



## X-Bassist

dzilizzi said:


> Wasn't there a way to send it out to multiple midi? I will have to play with it in ProTools this weekend to see if there is another way. Though after setting up my template with VE Pro in Cubase, I'm getting the hang of routing in it.


Let us know how it goes in PT. If it doesn’t work it’s a good reason for me to skip it until it does. I still say having midi drag and drop of each track (next to volume) or group (next to each section on/off) would be the most useful. I would only want it for parts, not for entire pieces, anyway.


----------



## kingy10kingy

Just upgraded to Opus Diamond from HWO . I have downloaded Opus and product support but see nothing about activating the license., The Opus software will not let me continue without it.

Also nothing about Opus on my ILok Has anyone else had this problem?


----------



## dzilizzi

kingy10kingy said:


> Just upgraded to Opus Diamond from HWO . I have downloaded Opus and product support but see nothing about activating the license., The Opus software will not let me continue without it.
> 
> Also nothing about Opus on my ILok Has anyone else had this problem?


I bought on Saturday. It didn't show in my iLok account until Monday. I think they say 24 to 48 hours


----------



## ChazC

dzilizzi said:


> I bought on Saturday. It didn't show in my iLok account until Monday. I think they say 24 to 48 hours


I had to give support a nudge - hadn't heard anything after 3 days so put a ticket in. Got the iLok deposit within 30 mins of that. They also sent me a link to the latest IC downloader which was newer than what was available on the site.


----------



## Allen Constantine

Guys, can someone recreate this thing? 

Open Opus as standalone and load up the Percussion Combo Kit 1. Try playing two notes really fast on the snares and check if you hear any dropout notes or missed timings?! 

Much appreciate it!


----------



## djburton

cqd said:


> Mr. Burton..
> 
> I did have a similar issue with Pro tools and ve pro the other day actually..I thought it had been down to an issue with the server file, as there was some connection issue with the two instances the last time I'd used it..I was going to just build that from scratch at the weekend and see..
> 
> Hmm..


Hey cqd - I've skimmed (_really_ superficially) through your recent posts and have guessed that your VE Pro issue mentioned above wasn't permanent. Is that correct? I'm still waiting on EW support to get back to me with my broader problem of disappearing instruments in saved instances, whether directly with the Opus plug-in or using VE Pro, whether in Cubase or Studio One. I haven't gone so far as to reinstall and re-establish location references since IC seems to recognize where instruments and samples are on my drives just fine. If my assumption about your progress is right, continued good luck.


----------



## cqd

djburton said:


> Hey cqd - I've skimmed (_really_ superficially) through your recent posts and have guessed that your VE Pro issue mentioned above wasn't permanent. Is that correct? I'm still waiting on EW support to get back to me with my broader problem of disappearing instruments in saved instances, whether directly with the Opus plug-in or using VE Pro, whether in Cubase or Studio One. I haven't gone so far as to reinstall and re-establish location references since IC seems to recognize where instruments and samples are on my drives just fine. If my assumption about your progress is right, continued good luck.


Hey..
I actually haven't gotten back to trying to sort out the vepro template yet..I've been busy since and only really got to play around with it..I've actually been wondering if there's any point putting a template together with it, when you consider how powerful the orchestrator is..I'm half considering just using a couple of them and adding other patches as I see fit.. 

I didn't notice anything else not reloading in pro tools, but I wasn't particularly looking out for it..
It was only two particular instances of Opus didn't load for me, so I'll be saving them all whenever I do them again anyway..

If I do see it happening again I'll get on to support too..


----------



## cqd

Just saw on the book of faces that there's another update on the way soon enough anyway..


----------



## pistacchio

Does anyone know if it is possibile to mass-assign articulations to key switches? Eg, if I open a patch that only has 5 articulations enabled and I enable 10 more, I have to click "Assign to keyswitch" ten times. Is there a hidden "Assign the selected articulations to consecutive keyswitches" or something? Thanks


----------



## cqd

pistacchio said:


> Does anyone know if it is possibile to mass-assign articulations to key switches? Eg, if I open a patch that only has 5 articulations enabled and I enable 10 more, I have to click "Assign to keyswitch" ten times. Is there a hidden "Assign the selected articulations to consecutive keyswitches" or something? Thanks


That's pretty annoying alright..
You can't do it on the other play page can you?..
Typing them in is quicker anyway..


----------



## SlHarder

EW Installation Center updated to 1.4.2. Run it to update.


----------



## pistacchio

cqd said:


> That's pretty annoying alright..
> You can't do it on the other play page can you?..
> Typing them in is quicker anyway..


Hi, thanks. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. What "other play page" are you referring to? And what you mean by "Typing them"? What is "them"? Typing where?


----------



## cqd

pistacchio said:


> Hi, thanks. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. What "other play page" are you referring to? And what you mean by "Typing them"? What is "them"? Typing where?


In the articulations section of the center display of the play page..maybe not, you'd have to have them loaded anyway..

And typing in A0 in the box rather than scrolling through them with the arrow..

But yeah, it's a pain to get set up alright..


----------



## Rey

i am trying to try to install the libraries one by one strings brass etc...but i am getting the 'sample drive not found"...and then "Warning disk full".

anyone having the same issue?
for hollywood gold


----------



## cqd

Rey said:


> i am trying to try to install the libraries one by one strings brass etc...but i am getting the 'sample drive not found"...and then "Warning disk full".
> 
> anyone having the same issue?
> for hollywood gold


I had this issue..it was installing a couple of the libraries to my c drive..I moved them and they were OK..


----------



## Rey

cqd said:


> I had this issue..it was installing a couple of the libraries to my c drive..I moved them and they were OK..


mine isnt even installing. only the orchestrator and harp happen to slipped and installed . the rest still giving the same message. trying to install on ssd drive. do i have to install inside a folder named Play libraries or soemthing? or the folder have to be specific name?


----------



## ZeroZero

Question: How does Opus work with score packages, Cubase sequencers and the like? DO you see all the notes?


----------



## Rey

"Instrument folder invalid" . The selected directory does not match hollywood strings opus etc..etc...

happens when i try to change drive and folder


----------



## kingy10kingy

I've noticed with multi patches like the orchestrator and full strings etc it will miss notes or they will not respond correctly . Some notes wont even work at all!!

If i open a new instance of Opus it will work again but then the same problem will happen soon after.

Have noticed as well especially with the full string patches they are much harsher and have a much faster attack than the original ones . To be honest I think I prefer the play version of full strings .


----------



## wkundrus

Rey said:


> "Instrument folder invalid" . The selected directory does not match hollywood strings opus etc..etc...
> 
> happens when i try to change drive and folder


There is a new version on the Installation Center available since yesterday. That should be fixed.


----------



## wkundrus

Rey said:


> "Instrument folder invalid" . The selected directory does not match hollywood strings opus etc..etc...
> 
> happens when i try to change drive and folder


There is a new version on the Installation Center available since yesterday. That should be fixed.


----------



## wkundrus

cqd said:


> I had this issue..it was installing a couple of the libraries to my c drive..I moved them and they were OK..


There is a new version on the Installation Center available since yesterday. That should be fixed.


----------



## MauroPantin

wkundrus said:


> There is a new version on the Installation Center available since yesterday. That should be fixed.


The username suggests it, but I have to ask the explicit Q: Is this THE Wolfgang K.? 

If so, we briefly talked about what could be improved in Play a couple of years back and I sent you some of the instrument patches the community had made for a more playable HO. I just want to say thanks for listening to users and including that purge function and the added playability and flexibility included in Opus, it's night and day for me.


----------



## mazemania

dsharpie said:


> CC Plus subscriber here. Download and installation of OPUS went well last night, and I've been able to work with it a bit in Cubase 10.5. However the install broke my Play 6 (Not a valid VST message in Cubase, and standalone Play 6 would not load up at all). Loading existing Cubase projects that use Play 6 failed with missing VST messages.
> 
> I messaged support, and after a couple of hours I got a detailed list of instructions to solve the problem, which did work. Basically, I had to remove the EastWest folder from the Program Data folder and remove PLAY and OPUS vst's from the VST and VST3 folders, then Reinstall OPUS software (and the support files) and PLAY software (in that order) and reboot the computer. This resulted in version 1.0.0a of OPUS being installed and 6.1.9 of Play reinstalled. I think OPUS 1.0.0a was a fix they put in late last night or early this morning, after I had done my initial install, so maybe this issue is fixed now.
> 
> All of my installed libraries still did not show as installed in the East West Installation software (obviously because deleting the Program Data-EastWest folder deletes data about the installed libraries). But no problem, just had to go to Library Directories screen, delete and add back my two folders, and voila, it refreshed correctly showing all of my installed libraries.
> 
> Now both OPUS and PLAY work fine in standalone mode as well as VST's.
> 
> NOTE: I did have to open Cubase 10.5, go to VST Manager, and refresh to remove the "bad Play" message before I could load up my existing Play-based projects, but everything worked fine after that.
> 
> EDITED TO ADD: In case any other early-installers have this problem, take note that if you have SPACES II preset data in the Program Data - EastWest folder structure, you need to copy it to another place before deleting the folder, so it can be added back in after reinstalling the software. Tech Support said that if there was a problem with SPACES presets, it could be reinstalled to fix the problem.



Hi
I might have a smiliar issue:
I have Composer Cloud X subscription now and downloaded OPUS first time. I´m in contact with EW support, but no real change yet.
OPUS crashes when I try to load samples. Does not matter which samples? Either my old libraries such as Symphonic Gold or the new stuff from Hollywood.
Re-installed everything, no change.
OPUS always crashes on my Winodws.
Similar to your experience?
Thanks


----------



## mazemania

BEflat said:


> Yes...I am having the same issue. I have EDUX subscription so I don't know if that is the reason.


me too
is that the issue? i have EDU x and OPUS crashes when I try to load samples.
same to you? how was it fixed?


----------



## Rey

wkundrus said:


> There is a new version on the Installation Center available since yesterday. That should be fixed.


tried the new version. but same deal. seems like although i selected a different drive with large space for install, it still check my C drive. i had like 15 gb earlier. i free up more space up to 30gb, suddenly i am able to download some of the low gb instruments like harp and solo violin etc. now i have to figure out how to claim more space in my limited 111gb main C drive thats already 30gb occupied by windows that i cant remove. trying to remove more stuffs now .strings are the most 56gb. 

otherwise i might have to get a new sdd and do a fresh windows reinstall


----------



## rnb_2

Rey said:


> tried the new version. but same deal. seems like although i selected a different drive with large space for install, it still check my C drive. i had like 15 gb earlier. i free up more space up to 30gb, suddenly i am able to download some of the low gb instruments like harp and solo violin etc. now i have to figure out how to claim more space in my limited 111gb main C drive thats already 30gb occupied by windows that i cant remove. trying to remove more stuffs now .strings are the most 56gb.
> 
> otherwise i might have to get a new sdd and do a fresh windows reinstall


I'd get in touch with support - I haven't had to use them yet, but I've heard good things.


----------



## Benbln

Hey guys I have a question for you and need some help. I currently use AI Nucleus and have no further full Orchestra VST. I just make music for fun but I really love what I see from Opus so far. Could this be a go to tool or do you guys think it lacks something (percussion for example)?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

BenJbln030 said:


> Hey guys I have a question for you and need some help. I currently use AI Nucleus and have no further full Orchestra VST. I just make music for fun but I really love what I see from Opus so far. Could this be a go to tool or do you guys think it lacks something (percussion for example)?


Opus is a top quality, comprehensive orchestral library.


----------



## szczaw

Here's 1 preset with ostinatos + 1 ensemble. This sure beats 'static' chord progressions. Unfortunately the plugin, the Orchestrator part especially, is very unstable.
View attachment Opus.mp3


----------



## Toecutter

BenJbln030 said:


> I just make music for fun but I really love what I see from Opus so far. Could this be a go to tool or do you guys think it lacks something (percussion for example)?


It has everything and more, just make sure your computer can handle it! If you subscribe to Composer Cloud, you will probably never need to buy another library again


----------



## Christian64

One of you could make a comparison between the legato violins of Play and the legato of the 18 violins of Opus.
I’ll be curious to hear the difference.
Thanks!!


----------



## EgM

Christian64 said:


> One of you could make a comparison between the legato violins of Play and the legato of the 18 violins of Opus.
> I’ll be curious to hear the difference.
> Thanks!!



View attachment ewho-opus18.mp3


EWHO Gold Close+Mid, Leg Slur Ni

then

OPUS Gold 18 Violins Close+Mid, Leg Slur MAX


EWHO is still my favorite, Opus sounds like it's bow change legato


----------



## wkundrus

Evans said:


> Have you contacted EastWest Support via their web site? They're quite responsive.





Rey said:


> tried the new version. but same deal. seems like although i selected a different drive with large space for install, it still check my C drive. i had like 15 gb earlier. i free up more space up to 30gb, suddenly i am able to download some of the low gb instruments like harp and solo violin etc. now i have to figure out how to claim more space in my limited 111gb main C drive thats already 30gb occupied by windows that i cant remove. trying to remove more stuffs now .strings are the most 56gb.
> 
> otherwise i might have to get a new sdd and do a fresh windows reinstall


You can select the drive for downloads in the top left menu in installation center. Select Library directories, add the drive which you want to download to and make it the default location.


----------



## wkundrus

mazemania said:


> Hi
> I might have a smiliar issue:
> I have Composer Cloud X subscription now and downloaded OPUS first time. I´m in contact with EW support, but no real change yet.
> OPUS crashes when I try to load samples. Does not matter which samples? Either my old libraries such as Symphonic Gold or the new stuff from Hollywood.
> Re-installed everything, no change.
> OPUS always crashes on my Winodws.
> Similar to your experience?
> Thanks


Could you give me some details? Do you get crashes in the Standalone version or in the Plugin ? Which DAW to you use ?


----------



## cqd

To people having trouble downloading..deleting all installation paths, restarting the installation centre and re adding them worked for a couple of us too..


----------



## dzilizzi

cqd said:


> To people having trouble downloading..deleting all installation paths, restarting the installation centre and re adding them worked for a couple of us too..


this is what I had to do.


----------



## szczaw

Several plugin crashes later, I feel battered.

View attachment Opus2.mp3


----------



## Rey

wkundrus said:


> You can select the drive for downloads in the top left menu in installation center. Select Library directories, add the drive which you want to download to and make it the default location.


tried that but it still doesnt work for some weird reason.


rnb_2 said:


> I'd get in touch with support - I haven't had to use them yet, but I've heard good things.


got in touch with support. they say i need to set up directory libraries in other drives that is empty. also said something about it needs 2x space for unpacking.
still not installing except some few libraries that is 7 gb and less. im sitting at 30gb C drive. other drives have lots of space but it doesnt seem to be able to install there. Cant reclaim anyomore space. will get a new ssd. thanks for the help!


----------



## cqd

cqd said:


> To people having trouble downloading..deleting all installation paths, restarting the installation centre and re adding them worked for a couple of us too..


----------



## ravez

is it normal that there is no crossfade on woodwinds sustained patches? like Oboe Sus Max, if i use CC1 Modulation it jumps from one dynamic layer to the other instead of cross fading through them.


----------



## Robo Rivard

I've been downloading and reinstalling EW OPUS Diamond TWICE on a fresh SSD, and the total library weights 872.5 GB... On EW website, they claim the library is 944 GB... That's a whopping 72 GB difference!

According to the EW Installer, I'm fine... But 72 GB is a lot! Will I have to reinstall for a third time (if that's possible)?

My final count by group of instruments:

- Harp: 14.3 GB
- Solo Violin: 36.4 GB
- Solo Cello: 38 GB
- Brass: 187 GB
- Woodwinds: 177 GB
- Percussion: 69.8 GB
- Strings: 350 GB

Total: 872.5 GB


----------



## alcorey

Robo Rivard said:


> I've been downloading and reinstalling EW OPUS Diamond TWICE on a fresh SSD, and the total library weights 872.5 GB... On EW website, they claim the library is 944 GB... That's a whopping 72 GB difference!
> 
> According to the EW Installer, I'm fine... But 72 GB is a lot! Will I have to reinstall for a third time (if that's possible)?
> 
> My final count by group of instruments:
> 
> - Harp: 14.3 GB
> - Solo Violin: 36.4 GB
> - Solo Cello: 38 GB
> - Brass: 187 GB
> - Woodwinds: 177 GB
> - Percussion: 69.8 GB
> - Strings: 350 GB
> 
> Total: 872.5 GB


Strange...I have Total - 938.77 GB for the 7 sample libraries loaded on a separate SSD as follows:

- Harp: 15.38 GB
- Solo Violin: 39.09 GB
- Solo Cello: 40.87 GB
- Brass: 201.2 GB
- Woodwinds: 190.85 GB
- Percussion: 74.96 GB
- Strings: 376.42 GB

I already had all of the HO Diamond libraries loaded in Composer Cloud plus prior to the release of Opus so I only had to download the Opus related files.

So far I have had no problems at all, I'm on a Mac... no files not loading or showing as missing (of course, I haven't been everywhere yet)

Curious to see what others report


----------



## Robo Rivard

I haven't played around with the library yet. This is a fresh install, with no previous installation of Hollywood Orchestra (the only other EW library I own is Spaces II).

If I don't get any error message, I will assume it's complete... The Installation Center app tells me everything is fine.


----------



## alcorey

Robo Rivard said:


> I haven't played around with the library yet. This is a fresh install, with no previous installation of Hollywood Orchestra (the only other EW library I own is Spaces II).
> 
> If I don't get any error message, I will assume it's complete... The Installation Center app tells me everything is fine.


Is this a Cloud subscription or a purchase?


----------



## SymphonicSamples

AllenConstantine said:


> Guys, can someone recreate this thing?
> 
> Open Opus as standalone and load up the Percussion Combo Kit 1. Try playing two notes really fast on the snares and check if you hear any dropout notes or missed timings?!
> 
> Much appreciate it!


I found after testing many things recently the performance issues of the Opus engine is directly related to what your audio interface buffer size in use is set to. The larger the buffer size setting is set to the greater the drop notes/poor timing becomes and issues dramatically increases in direct relation to that setting. As Allen wrote some messages ago. This is easily tested by just loading a percussion combo kit in opus when in standalone and not inside your Daw, playing 2 snares quickly. Change your audio interfaces buffer settings and it become quickly evident and shockingly bad at larger buffer settings. This naturally doesn't effect Play 6 or Kontakt in such a simple test as it shouldn't given a larger buffer normally would only add latency but still play all notes correctly. Clearly the Opus engine is super sensitive to the buffer sizes in it's current build. This naturally becomes an issue if you have a large project with a lot of instances of Opus running when you use small buffer sizes. At least it may help some users out knowing this who have experienced simiilar problems during playback. Hope to see some optimization in an update soon.


----------



## ennbr

alcorey said:


> Strings: 335.47 GB


I have 376.42 GB for strings the number you have is what I had for the original Diamond everything else is the same


----------



## alcorey

ennbr said:


> I have 376.42 GB for strings the number you have is what I had for the original Diamond everything else is the same


Wow.. I just went back to my Strings folder and double checked... I have 376.42 also (now?)
Very strange because when I was checking my number against what Robo was showing I was surprised that my folder showed LESS GB (335.47) than even his did - and I checked it multiple times to ensure I was giving him the correct size of my library...............verrrrrrrrry strange 

So that gives me a total now of 938.77 GB - - - - - I have also edited this finding in my previous post replying to Robo Rivard


----------



## Robo Rivard

alcorey said:


> Is this a Cloud subscription or a purchase?


Purchase. 100% new content on my SSD drive. I have the very last version of EW Installer Center, and they confirm that everything is properly installed. Time to test it out now.


----------



## Dex

Is this just down to the difference between some people considering a gigabyte to be 1000 megabytes and others considering it to be 1024 megabytes?


----------



## alcorey

Dex said:


> Is this just down to the difference between some people considering a gigabyte to be 1000 megabytes and others considering it to be 1024 megabytes?


No, I do not think that is the case here...... I have asked EW to ascertain what the total file size of the 7 HOOPUS libraries SHOULD be.......I will report their response when received


----------



## alcorey

Robo Rivard said:


> Purchase. 100% new content on my SSD drive. I have the very last version of EW Installer Center, and they confirm that everything is properly installed. Time to test it out now.


Good luck and let us know how things go for you


----------



## Allen Constantine

SymphonicSamples said:


> I found after testing many things recently the performance issues of the Opus engine is directly related to what your audio interface buffer size in use is set to. The larger the buffer size setting is set to the greater the drop notes/poor timing becomes and issues dramatically increases in direct relation to that setting. As Allen wrote some messages ago. This is easily tested by just loading a percussion combo kit in opus when in standalone and not inside your Daw, playing 2 snares quickly. Change your audio interfaces buffer settings and it become quickly evident and shockingly bad at larger buffer settings. This naturally doesn't effect Play 6 or Kontakt in such a simple test as it shouldn't given a larger buffer normally would only add latency but still play all notes correctly. Clearly the Opus engine is super sensitive to the buffer sizes in it's current build. This naturally becomes an issue if you have a large project with a lot of instances of Opus running when you use small buffer sizes. At least it may help some users out knowing this who have experienced simiilar problems during playback. Hope to see some optimization in an update soon.


Hey Matt, 

Just confirming I tried lowering the buffer size to 128 and the drop notes/poor timing issues drastically decrease. The opposite way, setting the buffer size to 2048, it is practically unplayable. 

As this issue needs to be clearly addressed in the future, there are some more things to look into, because as Matt said, having large projects streamed at 128, would be a CPU killer. 

Opus needs some good optimization. @EastWestSupport, can you look into this?


----------



## Christian64

EgM said:


> View attachment ewho-opus18.mp3
> 
> 
> EWHO Gold Close+Mid, Leg Slur Ni
> 
> then
> 
> OPUS Gold 18 Violins Close+Mid, Leg Slur MAX
> 
> 
> EWHO is still my favorite, Opus sounds like it's bow change legato


Thanks !! 
I agree with you. I prefer EWHO. The legato seems more natural to me


----------



## Project Anvil

szczaw said:


> Opus doesn't have 'internal' midi recorder and midi export ?


It kinda does. You can add a Midi insert within OPUS itself called PocketRecorder.

But that just records whatever midi data you're sending to OPUS. Frankly I don't really get what it's purpose is just yet.


----------



## Project Anvil

ravez said:


> is it normal that there is no crossfade on woodwinds sustained patches? like Oboe Sus Max, if i use CC1 Modulation it jumps from one dynamic layer to the other instead of cross fading through them.


Depending on what patch you loaded you need to use CC11 for the cross-fade. CC1 controls vibrato and in the case of the woodwinds they seemed to have turned those into an on/off switch instead of a fade presumably in an effort to reduce phasing issues with the woodwinds.


----------



## ravez

Project Anvil said:


> Depending on what patch you loaded you need to use CC11 for the cross-fade. CC1 controls vibrato and in the case of the woodwinds they seemed to have turned those into an on/off switch instead of a fade presumably in an effort to reduce phasing issues with the woodwinds.


Oh i see! it does actually say in the description of the patch that CC1 is for the vibrato (2 intensities) and CC11 for dynamics (3 levels). If you work with the fader around the 50% mix very carefully you can avoid the sudden switch of the vibrato. I wish i could remap it to a more useful range, but better than an abrupt jump. Thanks for the tip


----------



## wkundrus

wkundrus said:


> Could you give me some details? Do you get crashes in the Standalone version or in the Plugin ? Which DAW to you use ?





Rey said:


> tried that but it still doesnt work for some weird reason.
> 
> got in touch with support. they say i need to set up directory libraries in other drives that is empty. also said something about it needs 2x space for unpacking.
> still not installing except some few libraries that is 7 gb and less. im sitting at 30gb C drive. other drives have lots of space but it doesnt seem to be able to install there. Cant reclaim anyomore space. will get a new ssd. thanks for the help!


Did you use the new version of the IC that is out since Wednesday ?


----------



## Rey

wkundrus said:


> Did you use the new version of the IC that is out since Wednesday ?


yes my friend. ic 1.4.2 right?


----------



## Kabraxis

Could anyone figured out how to change Pitch Range in OPUS? Play used to have this "per instrument" setting somewhere.


----------



## M4T




----------



## Vadium

dzilizzi said:


> There is only one iLok license. If you have no problem moving the license back and forth between master and slave, you could have it in both places. If you want to use the orchestrator, you probably should have it on one computer with the libraries. And? the libraries and orchestrator could be on one external SSD that could be switched as needed. You would just need to move the license.


If I have 2 slaves (1 = Strings + Perc, 2 = Brass and woodwinds) and DAW on the 3rd computer (Master), it seems that Opus can't normally be run on my system until it becomes possible to use separate licenses for different groups...

And the question remains for those who installed it - is the time accuracy became better compared to EWHO? Can you hear the smooth rhythmic notes when playback quantized legato notes?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Vadium said:


> If I have 2 slaves (1 = Strings + Perc, 2 = Brass and woodwinds) and DAW on the 3rd computer (Master), it seems that Opus can't normally be run on my system until it becomes possible to use separate licenses for different groups...
> 
> And the question remains for those who installed it - is the time accuracy became better compared to EWHO? Can you hear the smooth rhythmic notes when playback quantized legato notes?


There's a hack for that. The iLok dongle is only needed when loading instruments. You can remove it once they are loaded, and then move it to the computer where the next batch needs to load.


----------



## gsilbers

I gave up.
Between the ilok, random crashes, the 1TB of content which im gonna use only 3%.
I do like the new gui and the orchestrator.
I also didn't see or maybe hear the new samples? im sure the answer is someone in page 200 of this thread. but meh. still sounds good. 
Maybe ill revisit it after a few updates.


----------



## cqd

Another attempt at a template failed again..ran out of ram (maybe because I forgot to unload an orchestrator patch before starting)..When it was approaching the limit got a message from PT and then just crashed having not backed up..

64GB ram will be just barely enough I'd say..Might have to trim it down a bit..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cqd said:


> Another attempt at a template failed again..ran out of ram (maybe because I forgot to unload an orchestrator patch before starting)..When it was approaching the limit got a message from PT and then just crashed having not backed up..
> 
> 64GB ram will be just barely enough I'd say..Might have to trim it down a bit..


Why not just purge each instance until you need it?


----------



## cqd

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Why not just purge each instance until you need it?


Well, yeah, that's the plan..was wondering what it would take full though..

Note to self..save stuff more often..


----------



## dzilizzi

cqd said:


> Note to self..save stuff more often..


This! I get in a rhythm and forget. Next thing, it's all gone. Make sure autosave is on and it isn't too bad.


----------



## DarinD

Diamond users, could someone please comment on the bow change legato and slurred legato? Also is re-bow available and does it work well?


----------



## alcorey

Regarding file sizes for Opus: From EW


----------



## Dave Connor

DarinD said:


> Diamond users, could someone please comment on the bow change legato and slurred legato? Also is re-bow available and does it work well?


The Slurred have a slower transition between notes (adjustable with the velocity of the notes.) Bow Change is a faster transition with more of an attack between notes. So it depends on how much you want to hear the connected notes articulated. The Marcato Slurred have a much more pronounced attack on each note. All three are highly usable and tend to give you what you need at any given time. As far as legatos are concerned.


----------



## DarinD

Dave Connor said:


> The Slurred have a slower transition between notes (adjustable with the velocity of the notes.) Bow Change is a faster transition with more of an attack between notes. So it depends on how much you want to hear the connected notes articulated. The Marcato Slurred have a much more pronounced attack on each note. All three are highly usable and tend to give you what you need at any given time. As far as legatos are concerned.


Thanks!


----------



## Jerome McInerney

Robo Rivard said:


> I've been downloading and reinstalling EW OPUS Diamond TWICE on a fresh SSD, and the total library weights 872.5 GB... On EW website, they claim the library is 944 GB... That's a whopping 72 GB difference!
> 
> According to the EW Installer, I'm fine... But 72 GB is a lot! Will I have to reinstall for a third time (if that's possible)?
> 
> My final count by group of instruments:
> 
> - Harp: 14.3 GB
> - Solo Violin: 36.4 GB
> - Solo Cello: 38 GB
> - Brass: 187 GB
> - Woodwinds: 177 GB
> - Percussion: 69.8 GB
> - Strings: 350 GB
> 
> Total: 872.5 GB


I just did a fresh install on a windows machine and got the exact same numbers as you. 

Thank you for posting your numbers to help me verify my install! I believe these numbers are correct for a pc with NTFS.


----------



## szczaw

Dark Hero number 3. Unadvertised bonus of using Orchestrator is having your titles worked out 

View attachment Op dark hero 3.mp3


----------



## Lazeez

Just wondering... is anybody out there using HOOPUS Diamond off a fast external SSD with a fast USB connection? What is the performance like?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lazeez said:


> Just wondering... is anybody out there using HOOPUS Diamond off a fast external SSD with a fast USB connection? What is the performance like?


Yup - using it off an SSD with a USB3 external enclosure. No issues so far. Purge management is your friend.


----------



## Robo Rivard

Jerome McInerney said:


> I just did a fresh install on a windows machine and got the exact same numbers as you.
> 
> Thank you for posting your numbers to help me verify my install! I believe these numbers are correct for a pc with NTFS.


Everything seems to be running fine so far. I haven't tried Orchestrator, but I went through all the patches, and they load quickly without a problem. Great sound!


----------



## Lazeez

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Yup - using it off an SSD with a USB3 external enclosure. No issues so far. Purge management is your friend.


Nice. Thanks!


----------



## JohnCuts

I just updated all my libraries. I have them on an external drive. I also have a new M1 Macbook Pro and the latest version of Logic Pro X. Opus is working fine in both standalone mode and as a plugin to preview, load and play sounds except orchestrator. I am creating new instrument, choosing Orchestrator, double clicking a preset and nothing happens. Even if I try to manually add patches like individual strings 1st violin, celli etc they dont load into orchestrator. 
Am I doing something fundamentally wrong ? Is this a known issue? I have browsed this thread and havent seen it come up. 

Thanks all

John


----------



## José Herring

Lazeez said:


> Just wondering... is anybody out there using HOOPUS Diamond off a fast external SSD with a fast USB connection? What is the performance like?





ALittleNightMusic said:


> Yup - using it off an SSD with a USB3 external enclosure. No issues so far. Purge management is your friend.


Same. Using USB 3.1 no problems what so ever.


----------



## ThomasS

José Herring said:


> Same. Using USB 3.1 no problems what so ever.


I have no problems with an external USB3 2TB SSD - everything loads quickly (around 5 secs for largest KS instruments) and play with no glitches or stutter. However - a big pain in the tush - both Cubase and Dorico have to "wait" (little spinning circle) whenever I have too many instruments loaded and am playing around with them. If I wait, the program comes back sooner or later (sometimes minutes) and I can continue working, but it would take a lot of cups of coffee to keep waiting these things out. I just ordered an upgrade from 32gb to 64gb ram, so see if that solves the problem. If not I don't think I can use Opus for large projects, which is sad because it sounds great.


----------



## shrackattack

Stuart Honeyman said:


> For those interested in what orchestrator is like to write with here is something I put together in 45 minutes this morning using the orchestrator.
> 
> Bearing in mind:
> 
> 1. It would be faster if I was aware of a better method in Reaper to get the midi than recording midi output and then exploding the midi item/making all the instrument tracks/adding reverbs etc myself.
> 2. There are some timing issues at chord changes related to this which i'm too lazy to fix.
> 3. it's based on one of the triplet ostinatos - i've just added a bit of choir/french horn and taken some sections out here and there
> 
> Really what i'm waiting on to make it an actual usable thing is an efficient method for getting the midi out without any of the jank i resort to. Sounds like that's incoming for most, thought not confirmed for reaper yet unless i've misseed something.


Any chance you would give a run down on how you exported the MIDI in Reaper?


----------



## José Herring

Anybody getting drops outs when HOPUS has been idle for a while? Almost like it needs to reconnect with the samples due to an auto purge feature or something. When I leave it alone for a while then come back to HOPUS Strings and start playing it's like the samples have an audible latency click until that sample has been played a few times similar to when you purge samples in Kontakt then play the sample. But in HOPUS I haven't purged the samples.

And, before you ask, no I haven't read the manual. I just looked at it to admire it's beauty.


----------



## HauntedHotsauce

Anyone that's played around with this library enough have a comparison that can be made to Spitfire BBC? Obviously EW has the leg up with being able to try/buy Opus via a Composer Cloud subscription. But from a pure performance standpoint I'm curious what people's opinions are between the two.


----------



## pcarrilho

HauntedHotsauce said:


> Anyone that's played around with this library enough have a comparison that can be made to Spitfire BBC? Obviously EW has the leg up with being able to try/buy Opus via a Composer Cloud subscription. But from a pure performance standpoint I'm curious what people's opinions are between the two.


I have both (EW CC PLUS and BBCSO PRO).

Now, I am using EW more, due to some performance "problems" with the BBC player. I like the BBC sound, I like it a lot, but the performance (in terms of CPU usage) drives me crazy. And i am using EW 24 bits samples...


----------



## piccolo

JohnCuts said:


> I just updated all my libraries. I have them on an external drive. I also have a new M1 Macbook Pro and the latest version of Logic Pro X. Opus is working fine in both standalone mode and as a plugin to preview, load and play sounds except orchestrator. I am creating new instrument, choosing Orchestrator, double clicking a preset and nothing happens. Even if I try to manually add patches like individual strings 1st violin, celli etc they dont load into orchestrator.
> Am I doing something fundamentally wrong ? Is this a known issue? I have browsed this thread and havent seen it come up.
> 
> Thanks all
> 
> John


I had same problem but on windows. Also it was crashing time to time and freezing midi input devices.

I tried many things, finally I did following. Now it seems to be working fine 🤞

1. Removed all of the library folder links in installation center.
2. I had orchestrator and some libraries on internal drive, and rest of the libraries on an external drive. I deleted orchestrator and moved all the libraries to external drive.
3. Rebooted computer, uninstalled everything from east west and deleted every folder related to east west on internal drive. Only kept the libraries on external drive.
4. Rebooted computer again, installed latest installation center, linked external drive folder (only external drive, no internal drive link)
5. Installed the software in this order; first opus support, then opus, then orchestrator (on external drive in same folder as the libraries ), then player software.
6. Clicked on reconact libraries in installation Center menu. Installation center found all the libraries except few. Installed missing ones.
7. Open the opus stand alone, choose option, one instance with multiple instruments.


----------



## alcorey

Been running Opus since it first came out in Logic with no problems at all, then last night out of nowhere it crashed while I was not even doing anything in Logic or Opus, they were just open and sitting there - wasn't even using the computer for anything at all. Today the same thing happened again????

Absolutely nothing has changed in my system at all, no new plug-ins or applications, hardware changes or software changes - nothing...... not cool - I don't want to play detective


----------



## José Herring

alcorey said:


> Been running Opus since it first came out in Logic with no problems at all, then last night out of nowhere it crashed while I was not even doing anything in Logic or Opus, they were just open and sitting there - wasn't even using the computer for anything at all. Today the same thing happened again????
> 
> Absolutely nothing has changed in my system at all, no new plug-ins or applications, hardware changes or software changes - nothing...... not cool - I don't want to play detective


Yeah, happens to me too. In VEPro though. Just crashes for no reason. Not often though. Yesterday it crashed when I hit the "mood" button to change it to Epic. I took it as a harbinger. Stay away from Epic music. 

In all seriousness though. Opus is way more stable than Play when it was first released then Play became one of my most stable plugins. I'm sure given enough feedback from us public beta testers they'll make Opus just as stable as Kontakt. It's a great little Player and I wish them all the best with it because I know that soon I'll be depending on it. It sounds so good.


----------



## Vadium

Jeremy Spencer said:


> There's a hack for that.


A Tech support answer:
"The best solution would likely be purchasing licenses for the corresponding computers you want to run the Opus Edition on simultaneously, though I understand if that seems like an expensive endeavor.

Another option, is you are welcome to bring your request to our licensing team to see if they'd be able to grant a second Opus license, though if it's another entire set of Opus Edition, I cannot guarantee that they can approve such a decision - licensing doggy eastwestsounds.com

That decision would then come from our Head of Licensing, but that is worth a try if you don't want to pursue any of the above suggestions."

Hmm... Let's write to licensing team and ask for the return of a separate license system back?


----------



## wkundrus

alcorey said:


> Been running Opus since it first came out in Logic with no problems at all, then last night out of nowhere it crashed while I was not even doing anything in Logic or Opus, they were just open and sitting there - wasn't even using the computer for anything at all. Today the same thing happened again????
> 
> Absolutely nothing has changed in my system at all, no new plug-ins or applications, hardware changes or software changes - nothing...... not cool - I don't want to play detective


I am one of the developers and would like to find out, why it crashes. Can you find the crash dumps, send me a PM and attach the zipped crash dumps ? You can find them, if you go to the Finder, Go menu, select Go to Folder and paste this ~/Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports. Anything with Logic will be helpful.


----------



## szczaw

wkundrus said:


> I am one of the developers and would like to find out, why it crashes.


Can I suggest some features ?


----------



## gst98

wkundrus said:


> I am one of the developers and would like to find out, why it crashes. Can you find the crash dumps, send me a PM and attach the zipped crash dumps ? You can find them, if you go to the Finder, Go menu, select Go to Folder and paste this ~/Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports. Anything with Logic will be helpful.


Would it be possible to be able to set the velocity threshold of when a patch triggers legato vs portamento? was really hoping that would make it to OPUS.


----------



## Toecutter

ThomasS said:


> both Cubase and Dorico


Did you create a template for Dorico? Does it sound good compared to Noteperformer?


----------



## wkundrus

gst98 said:


> Would it be possible to be able to set the velocity threshold of when a patch triggers legato vs portamento? was really hoping that would make it to OPUS.


Can you explain ? If the threshold is exceeded you get Portamento or Legato ?


----------



## wkundrus

szczaw said:


> Can I suggest some features ?


Yes, please. I am eager to learn.


----------



## wkundrus

José Herring said:


> Yeah, happens to me too. In VEPro though. Just crashes for no reason. Not often though. Yesterday it crashed when I hit the "mood" button to change it to Epic. I took it as a harbinger. Stay away from Epic music.
> 
> In all seriousness though. Opus is way more stable than Play when it was first released then Play became one of my most stable plugins. I'm sure given enough feedback from us public beta testers they'll make Opus just as stable as Kontakt. It's a great little Player and I wish them all the best with it because I know that soon I'll be depending on it. It sounds so good.


Send crash dumps to support please.


----------



## wkundrus

alcorey said:


> Been running Opus since it first came out in Logic with no problems at all, then last night out of nowhere it crashed while I was not even doing anything in Logic or Opus, they were just open and sitting there - wasn't even using the computer for anything at all. Today the same thing happened again????
> 
> Absolutely nothing has changed in my system at all, no new plug-ins or applications, hardware changes or software changes - nothing...... not cool - I don't want to play detective


Can you look at ~/Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports and send us the crash dumps ? Thanks


----------



## szczaw

wkundrus said:


> Yes, please. I am eager to learn.


Immediate improvement would be some indication of playing position (step being triggered) in the step editor. What I would find very useful is capturing of arpeggiator 'pattern' by recording a sequence from a daw and mapping it to arpeggiator steps.


----------



## gst98

wkundrus said:


> Can you explain ? If the threshold is exceeded you get Portamento or Legato ?


yes, of course!

Any patch that contains more than one legato type (legato slur + portamento) uses velocity to determine which one to trigger. Currently, it is something like velocities 1-50 are portamento, and 51-127 are legato slur. 

It would be really nice for the user to be able to set the threshold which determines which triggers. In my case, I would love to set it to be 1-20 port and 21-127 legato slur so I don't have to hammer the keyboard so hard to ensure a legato slur transition. 

Thank you for listening to feedback!


----------



## ThomasS

Toecutter said:


> Did you create a template for Dorico? Does it sound good compared to Noteperformer?


Still working on a Dorico template. It’s not easy with expression map setup, but you can do a lot with time. Of course noteperformer sounds damn good and works flawlessly with Dorico so it is not bad for winds and brass, but pretty weak for strings, and even worse for choir. In fact, I got some good results with a few files already made by keeping noteperformer for everything but replacing its strings with Opus. So I am first making a string multi for opus/dorico with more patches than the KS masters and mapping them to Dorico texts and symbols, and Dorico can automatically change patches without any key switch like if a note is short it will automatically play staccato, etc. Balancing an orchestra is quick and automatic with Noteperformer but ultimately a score will sound better with Opus.


----------



## szczaw

szczaw said:


> Immediate improvement would be some indication of playing position (step being triggered) in the step editor. What I would find very useful is capturing of arpeggiator 'pattern' by recording a sequence from a daw and mapping it to arpeggiator steps.


To illustrate, if this is the captured midi, set the starting position, keep the timing and remap notes to steps.


----------



## szczaw

szczaw said:


> Immediate improvement would be some indication of playing position (step being triggered) in the step editor. What I would find very useful is capturing of arpeggiator 'pattern' by recording a sequence from a daw and mapping it to arpeggiator steps.


If you want to get 'sophisticated', add chord recognition and in addition to grabbing arp steps, capture notes relative to chord notes and on top add snapping to specified scale and key


----------



## DrTim

José Herring said:


> Anybody getting drops outs when HOPUS has been idle for a while? Almost like it needs to reconnect with the samples due to an auto purge feature or something. When I leave it alone for a while then come back to HOPUS Strings and start playing it's like the samples have an audible latency click until that sample has been played a few times similar to when you purge samples in Kontakt then play the sample. But in HOPUS I haven't purged the samples.
> 
> And, before you ask, no I haven't read the manual. I just looked at it to admire it's beauty.


Definitely happening to me as well, Logic Pro X, Intel chip.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Two issues with Orchestrator are very annoying....

1) Sustain pedal doesn’t work

2) You need to manually line up the arrangement after recording a part into Logic.


----------



## wkundrus

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Two issues with Orchestrator are very annoying....
> 
> 1) Sustain pedal doesn’t work
> 
> 2) You need to manually line up the arrangement after recording a part into Logic.


The Orchestrator use a 40 ms constant delay. You can simply set the track delay to -40ms. The sustain pedal is on our list. Thx


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

wkundrus said:


> The Orchestrator use a 40 ms constant delay. You can simply set the track delay to -40ms. The sustain pedal is on our list. Thx


Thanks. Why not just fix the delay issue?


----------



## ThomasS

wkundrus said:


> The Orchestrator use a 40 ms constant delay. You can simply set the track delay to -40ms. The sustain pedal is on our list. Thx


1) In addition to the sustain pedal (which will be great) a useful addition would be "latch mode."

2) Another obvious feature would a plain vanilla "Midi Thru" option based on the notes you play - choosing either top-down or bottom-up - exactly the way divisimate does it. That is, instead of just having Top, Bottom, Middle or middle-two, etc. (which really favors triads more than chords with 4+ tones) you should also be able to assign the note order of any instrument from top down or bottom up.
I am now achieving this by running Divisimate into multiple instances of the Orchestrator, and it works great and greatly increases its functionality - with more creative control over voicing and spacing - but I was thinking that Orchestrator can do so much more than Divisimate in other ways, but still can't do this simple thing that Divisimate does.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Would also like a way to route each Orchestrator channel into Logic.


----------



## M4T

*For Windows + Cubase + HOPUS:*
I fixed most of my crashes and RAM issues by disabling sample preload in Opus preferences. The Manual says that is it ONLY for M2 or Raid drives, but with my old 6700k + Standard SSD it works fine.
No crash since 2 days ago .... I have like 25 tracks including 5 instances of Orchestrator and 7G of RAM only, CPU is relax as well


----------



## pcarrilho

I have CC Plus subscription, and in my PC, a installed the full version, and everything works fine.

On my macbook M1, i installed some libs (like Ra, Silk, ...) and everything works.
I installed Opus hollywood GOLD versions, and it its nor working. These libs do not appears on Opus Browser...

Anyone with the same problem?


----------



## wkundrus

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Thanks. Why not just fix the delay issue?


It is not a bug, it done by design, because the Orchestrator must be able to reliably detect chords.


----------



## wkundrus

pcarrilho said:


> I have CC Plus subscription, and in my PC, a installed the full version, and everything works fine.
> 
> On my macbook M1, i installed some libs (like Ra, Silk, ...) and everything works.
> I installed Opus hollywood GOLD versions, and it its nor working. These libs do not appears on Opus Browser...
> 
> Anyone with the same problem?


How did you install the Gold version ? Copying it over or use the Installation Center ?


----------



## gst98

@wkundrus Will it ever be possible to have midi export from orchestrator in Logic?


----------



## Allen Constantine

AllenConstantine said:


> Hey Matt,
> 
> Just confirming I tried lowering the buffer size to 128 and the drop notes/poor timing issues drastically decrease. The opposite way, setting the buffer size to 2048, it is practically unplayable.
> 
> As this issue needs to be clearly addressed in the future, there are some more things to look into, because as Matt said, having large projects streamed at 128, would be a CPU killer.
> 
> Opus needs some good optimization. @EastWestSupport, can you look into this?


@wkundrus Any updates on this? 
@SymphonicSamples


----------



## jps0611

@wkundrus Just want to say...I am tremendously excited about the potential for Opus. The midi editor in the orchestrator is truly a revolution in digital orchestral scoring.

As you're planning out future developments and optimizations...one thing I'd love to see if the ability to use more articulations and even switch articulations from the midi sequencer. Currently, if I want to write a passage that uses both legato and staccato...I need to use to separate instances of Opus. It would be awesome to streamline this.

Cheers!


----------



## dcoscina

Is anyone encountering drop outs on some of the short string arts like staccatisimo 9RR... seems like some of the samples disappear when cycling through the same note as the same velocity.
Same with a2 horn stacc... weird


----------



## pcarrilho

wkundrus said:


> How did you install the Gold version ? Copying it over or use the Installation Center ?


Both.
I re.installed Gold (with installation center) and now everything is working... thanks


----------



## jps0611

dcoscina said:


> Is anyone encountering drop outs on some of the short string arts like staccatisimo 9RR... seems like some of the samples disappear when cycling through the same note as the same velocity.
> Same with a2 horn stacc... weird


Yep I am experiencing dropouts.


----------



## dcoscina

jps0611 said:


> Yep I am experiencing dropouts.


Bummer eh?


----------



## SymphonicSamples

SymphonicSamples said:


> I found after testing many things recently the performance issues of the Opus engine is directly related to what your audio interface buffer size in use is set to. The larger the buffer size setting is set to the greater the drop notes/poor timing becomes and issues dramatically increases in direct relation to that setting. This is easily tested by just loading a percussion combo kit in opus when in standalone and not inside your Daw, playing 2 snares quickly. Change your audio interfaces buffer settings and it become quickly evident and shockingly bad at larger buffer settings. This naturally doesn't effect Play 6 or Kontakt in such a simple test as it shouldn't given a larger buffer normally would only add latency but still play all notes correctly. Clearly the Opus engine is super sensitive to the buffer sizes in it's current build. This naturally becomes an issue if you have a large project with a lot of instances of Opus running when you use small buffer sizes. At least it may help some users out knowing this who have experienced similar problems during playback. Hope to see some optimization in an update soon.


I posted this earlier in the thread..Try the above and see how it goes for you.


----------



## Allen Constantine

SymphonicSamples said:


> I posted this earlier in the thread..Try the above and see how it goes for you.


@wkundrus - any updates on this?


----------



## pcarrilho

Yesterday i bought a Macbook AIR M1, and did some performance tests using OPUS on this little computer. I am impressed. If you want to know more, i posted here:






First tests with my new Mac Book Air M1


Hi guys. Yesterday i bought a new Macbook Air, 16GB Ram and 500 Gb DISK. This computer will be essentially for my work related to sound design, production of samples libs, music for video games and even some soundtracks for TV. The intention is not to use it for large orchestrations, where a...




vi-control.net


----------



## AndyP

SymphonicSamples said:


> I posted this earlier in the thread..Try the above and see how it goes for you.


For me it works up to a max. buffersize of 512. After that it gets slightly bumpy. Thanks to fast computers and plenty of RAM, I run OPUS with either 128 or 192 and am very satisfied.


----------



## José Herring

Can anyone point me to where the crash dump files are? I can't seem to locate them.


----------



## alcorey

José Herring said:


> Can anyone point me to where the crash dump files are? I can't seem to locate them.


If it's Mac in the finder under Go.... Go To Folder and input /Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports


----------



## dcoscina

I'm finding load times rather slow compared to the same patch loading in PLAY. Anyone else? 

I actually didn't realize I'd subscribed for a year, not one month to Composer Cloud X. EW customer support were very understanding and professional and cancelled my subscription at my request since it's not usable for me at this time. Way too many issues... I like the sound and the concept. It just needs some refinement.


----------



## rnb_2

dcoscina said:


> I'm finding load times rather slow compared to the same patch loading in PLAY. Anyone else?
> 
> I actually didn't realize I'd subscribed for a year, not one month to Composer Cloud X. EW customer support were very understanding and professional and cancelled my subscription at my request since it's not usable for me at this time. Way too many issues... I like the sound and the concept. It just needs some refinement.


Yeah, I was curious about many claiming that they were paying $19.99 to try it out - my interpretation of their pricing info was that single-month subs are $29.99, and CCX is either paid annually for $200 or monthly for $19.99, but you're committed for a year either way. Nice to know that they'll accommodate cancellations, apparently without paying a penalty - Adobe doesn't do that on Creative Cloud, so that's a point in EW's favor.


----------



## M4T

A quick sketch using ONLY EW Composer Cloud
No mixing, no plugins
Orchestrator is definitely a powerful tool


----------



## José Herring

M4T said:


> A quick sketch using ONLY EW Composer Cloud
> No mixing, no plugins
> Orchestrator is definitely a powerful tool



I was digin' it, but at bar 19 I was expecting the big orchestral drop and nothing happened. :( It comes in a few bars later but felt it was kind of a bit too late.


----------



## dcoscina

rnb_2 said:


> Yeah, I was curious about many claiming that they were paying $19.99 to try it out - my interpretation of their pricing info was that single-month subs are $29.99, and CCX is either paid annually for $200 or monthly for $19.99, but you're committed for a year either way. Nice to know that they'll accommodate cancellations, apparently without paying a penalty - Adobe doesn't do that on Creative Cloud, so that's a point in EW's favor.


I think they were accommodating because of how rough it has been for some users. I would have sucked it up and committed to pay the 12 months if it was a useable product but for me, it’s not at this point.


----------



## szczaw

Can you save and recall changes to play instruments that are part of Orchestrator ? When I reload the plugin, all instrument settings go back to default.


----------



## Crossroads

I just checked my RAM usage... 12GB for 1st Violins Keyswitch Patch alone!

Holy macaroni what is happening here? And this is with Gold! Not even Diamond...

I remember getting 64gb of ram for hosting Diamond. But now, even the Gold edition eats my RAM for breakfast


----------



## EgM

Crossroads said:


> I just checked my RAM usage... 12GB for 1st Violins Keyswitch Patch alone!
> 
> Holy macaroni what is happening here? And this is with Gold! Not even Diamond...
> 
> I remember getting 64gb of ram for hosting Diamond. But now, even the Gold edition eats my RAM for breakfast


Hmm, mine uses 0B for the KS Master, with all arts enabled. Forgot to hit the purge red button? 

Edit: I have Default Preload Size at: SSD/PCIe and Never preload enabled


----------



## Crossroads

EgM said:


> Hmm, mine uses 0B for the KS Master, with all arts enabled. Forgot to hit the purge red button?
> 
> Edit: I have Default Preload Size at: SSD/PCIe and Never preload enabled


Ah yes, thank you!

I always used Play so never thought about a purge function before haha. But it actually works!

Now I feel like a dunce


----------



## ThomasS

Crossroads said:


> I just checked my RAM usage... 12GB for 1st Violins Keyswitch Patch alone!
> 
> Holy macaroni what is happening here? And this is with Gold! Not even Diamond...
> 
> I remember getting 64gb of ram for hosting Diamond. But now, even the Gold edition eats my RAM for breakfast


Just go to settings-preferences and check "never pre-load" and you will not have this problem.

But I should mention that 1st Violins Keyswitch in DIAMOND only takes 2.4 GB if fully loaded. And if you keep purging you will never get to 2.4 GB because one piece of music will not likely use every note of every articulation. 64GB ram is plenty for a full orchestral template for me, and I have multis with many more patches than the KS Masters.


----------



## gst98

Crossroads said:


> I just checked my RAM usage... 12GB for 1st Violins Keyswitch Patch alone!
> 
> Holy macaroni what is happening here? And this is with Gold! Not even Diamond...
> 
> I remember getting 64gb of ram for hosting Diamond. But now, even the Gold edition eats my RAM for breakfast



It always used this much RAM. I think there was a diamond legato patch that used 9gb per mic.

But the old play used to display how much RAM was being currently used, not including what you were streaming from disk. Unless you disabled streaming from disk.


----------



## EgM

Crossroads said:


> Ah yes, thank you!
> 
> I always used Play so never thought about a purge function before haha. But it actually works!
> 
> Now I feel like a dunce


I've not used yet, I'm still afraid of that god awful white noise blasting at me lol


----------



## Audio Birdi

RAM usage in OPUS Vs PLAY is crazy. The same 1gb patch in Play ends up taking up considerably more in OPUS which doesn't make sense at all, this goes for all instruments across all libraries. Even at the PCIe / NVME SSD option. Unpurged should be the same for both players but Opus is hogging considerably more. Also it seems that enabling "multi-threaded voices" also ends up using even more RAM strangely.


----------



## EgM

Audio Birdi said:


> RAM usage in OPUS Vs PLAY is crazy. The same 1gb patch in Play ends up taking up considerably more in OPUS which doesn't make sense at all, this goes for all instruments across all libraries. Even at the PCIe / NVME SSD option. Unpurged should be the same for both players but Opus is hogging considerably more. Also it seems that enabling "multi-threaded voices" also ends up using even more RAM strangely.


Not seeing this here at all:


1st Violins Leg Slur MAX (Opus) 844.1MB (Player report) 1.80GB (Activity Monitor for VEP)

1st Violins Leg Slur Ni (Play) 997.0MB (Player report) 1.80GB (Activity Monitor for VEP)

Both with mid mics only for this test
preload size: SSD/PCIe
Never preload: on (irrelevant here since I've unpurged)
Multithreaded renderer: on
unpurged
MacOS Mojave
VEP7


----------



## gst98

Audio Birdi said:


> RAM usage in OPUS Vs PLAY is crazy. The same 1gb patch in Play ends up taking up considerably more in OPUS which doesn't make sense at all, this goes for all instruments across all libraries. Even at the PCIe / NVME SSD option. Unpurged should be the same for both players but Opus is hogging considerably more. Also it seems that enabling "multi-threaded voices" also ends up using even more RAM strangely.



Can you give some example patches? Or some screenshots so others can check?


----------



## EgM

I gave Opus an evening run for like 2-3 hours! I jam everyday to songs I know so I loaded patches all over the place, used some orchestrator, some max keyswitch patches and and I didn't experience the white noise problem that happened in the first releases.

I did notice however that the strings legato don't seem to react to velocity legato speed like it does in my EWHO Diamond strings so it felt weird as I was so used to the Play version. Reacts only on the legato speed knob?

But either way, I'm happy it seems to work properly!


----------



## Trax

José Herring said:


> I was digin' it, but at bar 19 I was expecting the big orchestral drop and nothing happened. :( It comes in a few bars later but felt it was kind of a bit too late.


Yeah, cause there was that little orchestral swell, and then it's was like premature ejaculation.


----------



## alcorey

Trax said:


> Yeah, cause there was that little orchestral swell, and then it's was like premature ejaculation.


Ouch!.......Used to hate that ....when I could do it....LOL


----------



## M4T

Trax said:


> Yeah, cause there was that little orchestral swell, and then it's was like premature ejaculation.


New musical terms I didn't know ...
I gave a try with a more 'in your face' after bar 19 ! different feeling, yet I stand by my decision


----------



## CDNmusic

Trax said:


> Yeah, cause there was that little orchestral swell, and then it's was like premature ejaculation.





M4T said:


> New musical terms I didn't know ...
> I gave a try with a more 'in your face' after bar 19 ! different feeling, yet I stand by my decision


I'm going to hell...


----------



## Fa

Audio Birdi said:


> RAM usage in OPUS Vs PLAY is crazy. The same 1gb patch in Play ends up taking up considerably more in OPUS which doesn't make sense at all, this goes for all instruments across all libraries. Even at the PCIe / NVME SSD option. Unpurged should be the same for both players but Opus is hogging considerably more. Also it seems that enabling "multi-threaded voices" also ends up using even more RAM strangely.


Yes guys, don't forget that Opus has a pretty different management of RAM depending on set-up. The "easy" set-up description was included in the guided set-up in the beginning (are you using ssd, fast ssd, Hd, etc.) and was exactly for that, to set the default memory allocation vs. disk streaming. The fastest the storage, the lower the RAM and viceversa. 

Finally the player is designed in different way for increasing performance, and for sure a decision of programmers was to rely more on fast RAM than before...


----------



## cqd

Does anyone know what's the story with saving a full Opus instance, with say 10 instruments routed to outputs etc?..Is it save performance?..


----------



## ThomasS

cqd said:


> Does anyone know what's the story with saving a full Opus instance, with say 10 instruments routed to outputs etc?..Is it save performance?..


I've been saving everything as Performances (it makes a file with .opt extension) and will let me add up to 16 instruments of any type into a single set, assigning each with a different midi channel (in the order that you add the instruments) - so, for example, you can have one performance of Vln1, Vln2, Vla, Vcl, Db, and it will assign each to a separate midi channel 1-5. Or any other combination of instruments you want up to 16.

You need to remember the directory where you save the xxx.opt file, to load it back in, - perhaps it will be in the main folder, or the strings folder, or the instrument folder of one of the patches, etc., so I had to decide where to put them all.

Because of the easy keyswitching you don't need to waste a slot by adding any patch from the same instrument into different midi channels. If you load the KS Master into a one slot, you can then enable ALL the articulations to be keywsitched within the same instrument. The KS Master of 1st Violin 1, for example, loads by default with only 6 keyswitches, but you can enable the entire set of 27 patches (everything in the 1st Vlns folder and subfolders) into one slot in the performance. If you do the same for all five string sections and you have at your fingertips well over 100 instruments and/or articulations. If you want you can put your winds and brass and percussion into the same performance too, and it is likely that just 2 performances (32 instruments each with around 20 articulations) or maybe 3 or 4 at the most and you have everything in the whole orchestra available at your fingertips without any more loading.

Strangely, I found that when I enable all the keywitches of an instrument (27 articulations for violins, for example) and save that for future, the instrument when loaded takes up no more RAM than the default KS Master with only 6 articulations. If I load the different articulations into different slots it takes up much more RAM. So for me, I made a performance called KS MAX for each intrument, and these can each be one of the 16 slots in a performance.


----------



## FKVStudio

Hello everybody. I have already sent a query to EW support but while they are answering, I would like to know if other people have had the same problem or if I am doing something wrong. I have obviously bought the Hollywood Orchestra Opus Diamond.

I have downloaded the installation center, I have downloaded "Opus Software" and "Product Support". I activate my license in Ilok and proceed to download the libraries. I start with Strings but I get an error that it can only be installed from a drive (I bought it online, I don't have an EW hard drive) and what I download does not reach approximately 35 GB.

I am doing something wrong? Can somebody help me? Thanks.


----------



## newbreednet

FKVStudio said:


> Hello everybody. I have already sent a query to EW support but while they are answering, I would like to know if other people have had the same problem or if I am doing something wrong. I have obviously bought the Hollywood Orchestra Opus Diamond.
> 
> I have downloaded the installation center, I have downloaded "Opus Software" and "Product Support". I activate my license in Ilok and proceed to download the libraries. I start with Strings but I get an error that it can only be installed from a drive (I bought it online, I don't have an EW hard drive) and what I download does not reach approximately 35 GB.
> 
> I am doing something wrong? Can somebody help me? Thanks.


same thing happened to me.
there seems to be something broken with the installer.

EW were pretty cool about helping fix it though - I was able to get an "appointment" the next day where they used TeamViewer to remotely access my machine, deleted a few hidden files related to the installer, and then it was good to go.


----------



## bonebones

FKVStudio said:


> Hello everybody. I have already sent a query to EW support but while they are answering, I would like to know if other people have had the same problem or if I am doing something wrong. I have obviously bought the Hollywood Orchestra Opus Diamond.
> 
> I have downloaded the installation center, I have downloaded "Opus Software" and "Product Support". I activate my license in Ilok and proceed to download the libraries. I start with Strings but I get an error that it can only be installed from a drive (I bought it online, I don't have an EW hard drive) and what I download does not reach approximately 35 GB.
> 
> I am doing something wrong? Can somebody help me? Thanks.


I had this issue too. It allowed me to download some files even when I accepted the error to my download folder. They were incomplete but I moved them all to my EastWest folder, then pointed the directories there and then in the installer selected 'download and reinstall' and it did it correctly with no errors. Also note the standard gold package lands on you HD as 120GB.


----------



## Rey

Hi. anyone have problem not able to save preset and preset dissapearing right after clicking the save icon? i cant save a single preset i made


----------



## jneebz

I see this EastWest Beta Team thread is still active. When does HOOPUS actually release?


----------



## janila

Based on EW’s record in software development, OPUS 6 might offer quite smooth sailing.


----------



## ThomasS

Rey said:


> Hi. anyone have problem not able to save preset and preset dissapearing right after clicking the save icon? i cant save a single preset i made


The whole save user preset function in Orchestrator is not ready for prime-time, in fact totally effed up. Sometimes I can save, other times not, it's naming is wierd and unpredictable and I have lost several presets, so I'll wait until they fix it before making any more. It's a pity, because I don't want to use pre-made presets and have some ideas for my own, but either I am doing somethng wrong or the program is.


----------



## AndyP

One thing I put on my wish list is the possibility for the KS patches to get a sorting function according to the used KS. So ascending by KS, that would make the overview much easier. That would be enough for me in the main window under articulations.
The memory requirement of one of my user patches is 4.7 gb. This is quite ok when I consider what is all in it. However, only with the main mic so far.

When using the internal effects it's like Play, the CPU usage is lower if you set the effects to master.

Edit: There is a bug in the articulations display. Sometimes a deactivated articulation is also displayed when I change the articulation. Does not affect the function, is only irritating.


----------



## Audio Birdi

janila said:


> Based on EW’s record in software development, OPUS 6 might offer quite smooth sailing.


OPUS 5 will be the most stable and fastest! :D.
OPUS 6 will have an even more advanced browser


----------



## Lewis Emblack

A new version of OPUS will be out very soon (currently in the beta phase). I know it fixes the RA library issue a few of us have been having, but no idea what else it fixes as hadn't enough time to play with it extensively to note any other issues prior.


----------



## AndyP

When saving your own patches, pay attention to the following:

I have created a user patch that is called, for example, Violas KS Master DIV A user. If I now load this patch, OPUS will omit the addition user from the name. If I now change this patch and just say save, OPUS will create a new patch called Violas KS Master Div.oit!
OPUS will not find this patch anymore when you try to load it.
Therefore always save as *Save as* and choose the correct folder. Then the patches are also displayed in OPUS. After loading the addition is gone again. Very stupid, because I thought at first he does not save my patches.


----------



## Alfeus Aditya

I made a template from opus and it randomly freeze my daw for more than 10 seconds (full purged). I made the same template before with PLAY with the old purge function and didn't experience freeze. Any suggestion? 

I am using reaper, macbook pro 2017 quad core3.0ghz i7, 16gb ram, high sierra


----------



## Audio Birdi

Turns out the Opus is showing different RAM Usage vs the Windows Task Manager.

Also, it looks like multi-threaded vs normal mode for voices in Opus uses 1.5GB more RAM too which is odd. Sent all of this info to EW support, but wondered if others have seen these issues?


----------



## Audio Birdi

Strangely, the new 18 violin strings section as well of the new woodwind sections don't have any trills or runs recorded. But all other sections and individual instruments do.


----------



## AndyP

Very strange indeed. Opus shows me 48 gb, but my system is full at just under 62 gb. Cubase alone shows me 18.4 gb. No idea what is happening with the ram.
Built myself performance patches with the sections and somehow it all doesn't add up.


----------



## AndyP

When creating the performance patches cubase crashed 2 times. Probably there is memory somewhere that is not actually used.


----------



## Audio Birdi

AndyP said:


> When creating the performance patches cubase crashed 2 times. Probably there is memory somewhere that is not actually used.


performance patches that have mostly HW Opus patches in there that are created in Windows, aren't re-loading when loading up REAPER or VEP either, not sure what's happening and have mentioned it to EW support too. They said many people have mentioned this and are currently fixing it.


----------



## AndyP

I wonder what happens in the kernel task? Opus 6gb, Cubase 11 gb (which fits so far), but just under 20 gb in the kernel task. No idea what is happening there.






When I disable tracks or patches in OPUS, memory goes down in OPUS, but the system does not seem to release memory.


----------



## FKVStudio

bonebones said:


> I had this issue too. It allowed me to download some files even when I accepted the error to my download folder. They were incomplete but I moved them all to my EastWest folder, then pointed the directories there and then in the installer selected 'download and reinstall' and it did it correctly with no errors. Also note the standard gold package lands on you HD as 120GB.


Until today I have not been able to test it and from support they recommended the same procedure. It is working so thank you very much for your help


----------



## szczaw

The stimulation I get from banging 'orchestrated' chords is priceless. Since I turned off multithreading, the stability is no longer of an issue.


----------



## Mike Fox

jneebz said:


> I see this EastWest Beta Team thread is still active. When does HOOPUS actually release?


Nick said 2023, but I wouldn’t count on it.


----------



## ookami

Hey Hey,
I've finished my first Piece with the new Opus Edition,
I made some Keyswitch Patches with Sus Stac Piz Leg MarcShrt with 3 Mic Positions
for 3FL 3CL 3BS CB / 6Hrns 3Trmp 3Trmb TB / 18VN 2ndVN VA VC DB / Timp,...
plus HZ Percussion 8dio FrameDrums 8dio Toms, a few Serum Instances,...
I ended up using 49GB Ram on our Ryzen 9 3950X, everything works stable at arround 512 buffer,
CPU wise there was still a good portion of Headroom, I could also get Ozone 9 Advanced on the Master
without Issues, so worked out great, the only downside is that You get quite long saving Times (20-30sec)
I hope You like the Track, it's the Entry for the #nowscorethis Remix Project from JXL's
At the Speed of Force :D



(PS.: No Orchestrator used in this)


----------



## Crossroads

Anyone experience very long instantiation times for the OPUS plugin? I am on Cubase 11, Windows 10. Instantiating the plugin takes very long, but also, disabling, enabling and duplicating takes excrutiatingly long. It can freeze Cubase for up to 30/40 seconds, which is, compared to Play or any other plugin, really, really long.

Also, loading projects with it, or saving said project just takes ages.

In fact, it takes so long that I am considering putting this one in the freezer until it is updated enough and try and make do with trusty old Play.


----------



## EgM

ookami said:


> Hey Hey,
> I've finished my first Piece with the new Opus Edition,
> I made some Keyswitch Patches with Sus Stac Piz Leg MarcShrt with 3 Mic Positions
> for 3FL 3CL 3BS CB / 6Hrns 3Trmp 3Trmb TB / 18VN 2ndVN VA VC DB / Timp,...
> plus HZ Percussion 8dio FrameDrums 8dio Toms, a few Serum Instances,...
> I ended up using 49GB Ram on our Ryzen 9 3950X, everything works stable at arround 512 buffer,
> CPU wise there was still a good portion of Headroom, I could also get Ozone 9 Advanced on the Master
> without Issues, so worked out great, the only downside is that You get quite long saving Times (20-30sec)
> I hope You like the Track, it's the Entry for the #nowscorethis Remix Project from JXL's
> At the Speed of Force :D
> 
> 
> 
> (PS.: No Orchestrator used in this)




Kickass song, congrats! Love what you did with Opus, sounds really good!

But I don't know if it's just my ears this evening but this feels like it's super-uber bass heavy haha  (Then again, I -hate- trailer music)

Edit: yeah it's bass heavy haha


----------



## ThomasS

Crossroads said:


> Anyone experience very long instantiation times for the OPUS plugin? I am on Cubase 11, Windows 10. Instantiating the plugin takes very long, but also, disabling, enabling and duplicating takes excrutiatingly long. It can freeze Cubase for up to 30/40 seconds, which is, compared to Play or any other plugin, really, really long.
> 
> Also, loading projects with it, or saving said project just takes ages.
> 
> In fact, it takes so long that I am considering putting this one in the freezer until it is updated enough and try and make do with trusty old Play.


The waiting times for Cubase 11 to deal with a large set of Opus instruments is ridiculous. I made a template of everything in Opus - that is all the KS instruments, with all the keyswitches enabled and assigned, so that at my fingertips I have every single patch and articulation available (in 63 instrument tracks).

The good news is that the whole template fully purged but all enabled only needs a little less than 20gb of ram which is fine for my 64gb. But the template takes forever to load and even longer to save, so it is unworkable. The first thing you have to do is to turn off auto-save in Cubase because when that hits your project the wait time is several cups of coffee or a small nap.

With possible crashes and freezes, auto-save, or periodic manual saves is essential, so that makes large Opus sessions and Cubase basically incompatible. Part of this is Cubase’s fault because it should have auto-save as a background process and not hijack your work with the dreaded spinning wheel. Even if you have only made changes to midi data, the save or auto-save function wants to re-save the entire set of Opus instruments.

I just tried a work-around that works, but a little bit of messing around. You have to SEPARATE the vst hosting of the Opus library and the midi data with two programs connected by loopback-midi. I first tried loading the 63 track template into Cubase, turned off auto save, and assigned each instrument to loopback-midi from 1 to 63. I then loaded the same template (created by a blank midi file from Cubase) with the same track names and loopback-midi channels into both Dorico and Sibelius and in both cases Cubase worked perfectly as a vst player for either notation program. All you have to do is disable loopback-midi in Dorico or Sibelius as inputs and make sure to keep all tracks in Cubase enabled for sound input. Now you can enter all the music you want and auto save your midi data in seconds and never lose anything. If you don’t like or have Dorico or Sibelius, any other daw would also work.

It also works the other way around. if you like working in Cubase (like I do) just make a template of the 63 Opus instruments as midi tracks with the loopback-midi channels (and disabled as midi inputs) in Cubase and use another program to host the Opus vst’s. This basically works but I am still experimenting with the most efficient host (Carla, Cantabile, another daw, ableton? etc) to see what works with Cubase the easiest.


----------



## ookami

EgM said:


> Kickass song, congrats! Love what you did with Opus, sounds really good!
> 
> But I don't know if it's just my ears this evening but this feels like it's super-uber bass heavy haha  (Then again, I -hate- trailer music)
> 
> Edit: yeah it's bass heavy


Thank You for Your Feedback Eric 😁
And Yes it is 😂 I know not the most representativ Demo for the pure Opus Sound 😅😊


----------



## Paulogic

ThomasS said:


> The waiting times for Cubase 11 to deal with a large set of Opus instruments is ridiculous. I made a template of everything in Opus - that is all the KS instruments, with all the keyswitches enabled and assigned, so that at my fingertips I have every single patch and articulation available (in 63 instrument tracks).
> 
> The good news is that the whole template fully purged but all enabled only needs a little less than 20gb of ram which is fine for my 64gb. But the template takes forever to load and even longer to save, so it is unworkable. The first thing you have to do is to turn off auto-save in Cubase because when that hits your project the wait time is several cups of coffee or a small nap.
> 
> With possible crashes and freezes, auto-save, or periodic manual saves is essential, so that makes large Opus sessions and Cubase basically incompatible. Part of this is Cubase’s fault because it should have auto-save as a background process and not hijack your work with the dreaded spinning wheel. Even if you have only made changes to midi data, the save or auto-save function wants to re-save the entire set of Opus instruments.
> 
> I just tried a work-around that works, but a little bit of messing around. You have to SEPARATE the vst hosting of the Opus library and the midi data with two programs connected by loopback-midi. I first tried loading the 63 track template into Cubase, turned off auto save, and assigned each instrument to loopback-midi from 1 to 63. I then loaded the same template (created by a blank midi file from Cubase) with the same track names and loopback-midi channels into both Dorico and Sibelius and in both cases Cubase worked perfectly as a vst player for either notation program. All you have to do is disable loopback-midi in Dorico or Sibelius as inputs and make sure to keep all tracks in Cubase enabled for sound input. Now you can enter all the music you want and auto save your midi data in seconds and never lose anything. If you don’t like or have Dorico or Sibelius, any other daw would also work.
> 
> It also works the other way around. if you like working in Cubase (like I do) just make a template of the 63 Opus instruments as midi tracks with the loopback-midi channels (and disabled as midi inputs) in Cubase and use another program to host the Opus vst’s. This basically works but I am still experimenting with the most efficient host (Carla, Cantabile, another daw, ableton? etc) to see what works with Cubase the easiest.


By working with this method, you are using the other DAW as a "synth module" (sort of).
This would mean that when you buy a second computer, nice CPU, heavy on RAM and SSD but lofi
grafics card and affordable 24" monitor, you can use this all the time as an Module but with a larger
boot time. In fact you could use 2 instances of Cubase then on 2 different machines.
Maybe cheaper and easier than VEP? But then how to connect them and make use of virtual Midi ports.
eg Port 1 : ch 1 to 16. Port 2 : ch 1 to 16 and so on...


----------



## JDK88

Are there any plugins like Hollywood Orchestrator but for any sample library?


----------



## M4T

Crossroads said:


> Anyone experience very long instantiation times for the OPUS plugin? I am on Cubase 11, Windows 10. Instantiating the plugin takes very long, but also, disabling, enabling and duplicating takes excrutiatingly long. It can freeze Cubase for up to 30/40 seconds, which is, compared to Play or any other plugin, really, really long.
> 
> Also, loading projects with it, or saving said project just takes ages.
> 
> In fact, it takes so long that I am considering putting this one in the freezer until it is updated enough and try and make do with trusty old Play.


Same here !!!


----------



## ThomasS

Paulogic said:


> By working with this method, you are using the other DAW as a "synth module" (sort of).
> This would mean that when you buy a second computer, nice CPU, heavy on RAM and SSD but lofi
> grafics card and affordable 24" monitor, you can use this all the time as an Module but with a larger
> boot time. In fact you could use 2 instances of Cubase then on 2 different machines.
> Maybe cheaper and easier than VEP? But then how to connect them and make use of virtual Midi ports.
> eg Port 1 : ch 1 to 16. Port 2 : ch 1 to 16 and so on...


Yes - the other DAW is the synth module and Cubase is the player.

I am using it all on one computer, but you are right - it would be simple to use with two computers. Maybe you don't need VEP for that, but probably then it would require some hardware MIDI routers between the two computers.

With one computer here's what I did:

I experimented with different DAWS (30-day trials) and found Reaper works efficiently with Cubase. I saved 5 Performances of Opus (called Woodwinds, Brass, Strings, Pitched Percussion, Unpitched Percussion) and each has up to 16 midi channels for a total of 63 Opus instruments (all with keyswitches fully enabled) so there are several hundred possible articulations available in these 5 Opus Performances.

- I loaded a Reaper session with these 5 Performances, assigned to Loopmidi 1, loopmidi 2, etc.
- I made a Cubase template with 63 midi tracks (only) with the names of the 63 instruments and each assigned to the corresponding loopmidi channels in Reaper, and when I play any track in Cubase I hear the sound of the correct instrument coming from Reaper, and everything is perfect.
-The Reaper session takes a long time to load and even longer to save, but I never touch it, so once it is open on my system it is just in the background.
-Curiously, when I load the template in Reaper (which has every Opus sound in purged state) Reaper only uses 15GB of RAM, whereas Cubase takes nearly 20GB. So Reaper is more effecient in hosting purged VST's than Cubase by 25%.
- Cubase now works blindingly fast, using only Midi, and autosave can be as frequent as you like.
- I can trigger the same sounds in Reaper from Sibelius or Dorico too, without losing the use of Cubase, simply by having midi-only templates with the correct loop-midi channels in those programs. In fact you can switch from Cubase to Dorico or Sibelius and back and all point to the the same sounds. At any time you can transfer the midi file to any one program if you want.
- In the end, after experiement and composing, I open a Cubase template with the actual vst's (takes a while to load), import the midi file and then remove the unused vst's so that only those used in that composition are held by Cubase, which is fine. In this way I can compose with everything at my fingertips and later move to Cubase for finer mixing, fx, controller changes, etc.


----------



## Stuart Honeyman

shrackattack said:


> Any chance you would give a run down on how you exported the MIDI in Reaper?


Sorry, I didn't see this, and it may well have been covered since. But here's the jank! (if someone has a better way PLEASE tell me :D :

1. Set up orchestrator on a single track and choose your ostinato, or score or whatever you want from orchestrator

Your track looks like this:





2. Click where it says 'in' and change it to 'Record: output (midi).





3. Now when you record on this track with orchestrator you will have a single midi item with all of the midi data from Orchestrator.
4. Right click on that midi item and choose 'item processing' and then 'explode multichannel audio or midi items to new one-channel items'.

You now have the midi data for each individual patch, each on a seperate audio track. You now need to name each track and add the appropriate Opus insrument (or a different instrument of your choice, obv). You'll also need to do any reverbs and mixing etc as none of this carries over from Orchestrator (except midi velocity, obv).


----------



## Mike Fox

Anyone know what happened to Jay Asher? Im surprised to not see him post anything new about opus.


----------



## emilio_n

Mike Fox said:


> Anyone know what happened to Jay Asher? Im surprised to not see him post anything new about opus.


I thought the same a few days ago. He is not posting in general the last months. Maybe he is busy in project 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Johnny

Or is he in a dark room somewhere in the bowels of Studio One, banging out Opus presets on a ten year NDA contract of silence... ~ The Truth is Out There ~


----------



## AndyP

I hope he is doing well.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

I seem to recall he was given a “time out” a while back, not sure if that has something to do with it. But yes, hope he is well.


----------



## eromain

ookami said:


> Hey Hey,
> I've finished my first Piece with the new Opus Edition,
> I made some Keyswitch Patches with Sus Stac Piz Leg MarcShrt with 3 Mic Positions
> for 3FL 3CL 3BS CB / 6Hrns 3Trmp 3Trmb TB / 18VN 2ndVN VA VC DB / Timp,...
> plus HZ Percussion 8dio FrameDrums 8dio Toms, a few Serum Instances,...
> I ended up using 49GB Ram on our Ryzen 9 3950X, everything works stable at arround 512 buffer,
> CPU wise there was still a good portion of Headroom, I could also get Ozone 9 Advanced on the Master
> without Issues, so worked out great, the only downside is that You get quite long saving Times (20-30sec)
> I hope You like the Track, it's the Entry for the #nowscorethis Remix Project from JXL's
> At the Speed of Force :D
> 
> 
> 
> (PS.: No Orchestrator used in this)



Love it! Thanks for sharing


----------



## maximuss

Has anybody else tried Opus with Sibelius Ultimate?


----------



## ThomasS

maximuss said:


> Has anybody else tried Opus with Sibelius Ultimate?


Yes - it works....But you need to set Sib dynamics to cc 11 and use the plugin to convert hairpins to cc11 and change keyswitchs to CC to get articulations without the low notes in your score, and then map words in the Sib dictionary to trigger the various articulations.

It works in theory -- either hosting the sounds directly from Sib (not great) or using another player, like Reaper or Cubase, (better) - and directing the sounds from Sib to the other DAW via loopmidi - but it still takes a lot of time to get everything to balance like NotePerformer because different Opus patches have different volumes, so a pp in one instrument might need an FF in another, etc. Still, if you persist you can make it work.

But a program like Sibelius wasn't ever meant to handle a VST library as big and as complex as Opus, so you cannot take advantage of everything Opus can do. If you like to compose in notation with Opus, Dorico works better in my testing, because you have control over midi note's, length, CC dynamics, articulations, expression maps, vibrato, etc. But even Dorico cannot handle a big template of a full orchestra of Opus because it stalls and lags too much if you load too many Opus instruments. Dorico as a midi input and another DAW as the player is currently your best option.

I am a longtime Sib user and just took out a 30 day trial of Dorico to see how much better it might be with Opus. I haven't yet decided to pull the plug and switch to Dorico.


----------



## maximuss

ThomasS said:


> Yes - it works....But you need to set Sib dynamics to cc 11 and use the plugin to convert hairpins to cc11 and change keyswitchs to CC to get articulations without the low notes in your score, and then map words in the Sib dictionary to trigger the various articulations.
> 
> It works in theory -- either hosting the sounds directly from Sib (not great) or using another player, like Reaper or Cubase, (better) - and directing the sounds from Sib to the other DAW via loopmidi - but it still takes a lot of time to get everything to balance like NotePerformer because different Opus patches have different volumes, so a pp in one instrument might need an FF in another, etc. Still, if you persist you can make it work.
> 
> But a program like Sibelius wasn't ever meant to handle a VST library as big and as complex as Opus, so you cannot take advantage of everything Opus can do. If you like to compose in notation with Opus, Dorico works better in my testing, because you have control over midi note's, length, CC dynamics, articulations, expression maps, vibrato, etc. But even Dorico cannot handle a big template of a full orchestra of Opus because it stalls and lags too much if you load too many Opus instruments. Dorico as a midi input and another DAW as the player is currently your best option.
> 
> I am a longtime Sib user and just took out a 30 day trial of Dorico to see how much better it might be with Opus. I haven't yet decided to pull the plug and switch to Dorico.


Thank you so much for your help!!!


----------



## ookami

eromain said:


> Love it! Thanks for sharing


Thank You so much! 😁🤗


----------



## Toecutter

AndyP said:


> I hope he is doing well.


Jay's alright, still a regular at the Sound Board.


----------



## chemie262

M4T said:


> Same here !!!


I cannot confirm. Cubase 11, Windows 10
New instance of Opus takes a second. Saving a project with an entire Orchestra takes about 5 seconds.


----------



## ThomasS

chemie262 said:


> I cannot confirm. Cubase 11, Windows 10
> New instance of Opus takes a second. Saving a project with an entire Orchestra takes about 5 seconds.


I don't know how you do this in 5 seconds, but would like to know exactly what you are saving.

Perhaps it depends on what you mean by "an entire orchestra."

Here are my timings of what I call an "entire orchestra template" (i.e. 63 tracks with every Opus instrument KS with all artculations enabled):

Loading the template (purged but enabled) = 1:47
Saving the same template = 4:48
Cubase RAM usage before adding notes = 15.763 GB

This is on Cubase 11, Windows 10, i7 6700, 64 Gb RAM, external Samsung SSD.

A faster processer and m.2 ssd would speed this up, but that is what I have.

You can see from the above that the real killer for Opus and Cubase is the nearly 5 minute save time, even for a raw template before adding midi data. Of course, you can open the template disabled in seconds, and only keep enabled what you use, but that affects my workflow, especially at the beginning when I like to have everything available and ready to work with, and not have to mess with enabling and disabling just to get going.

Opus is fantastastic with both the purge and keyswitch functions, but a large template is unworkable in Cubase 11 with the nearly 5 minute save time, because every time auto-save kicks in you have to stop working for 5 minutes. You can turn off auto-save, but because there are still crashes this is dangerous. (Crashes are particularly common when disabling tracks, so be careful.)

Therefore, until Cubase fixes its auto-save function to work in the background, and hopefully fixes its save speed in general, I cannot use Cubase alone with a full template of Opus. I'm currently hosting the Opus template in Reaper and still working solely in Cubase with midi tracks pointing to the Reaper channels. The Cubase template (midi only) opens in seconds, and as long as Reaper is open in the background it works perfectly, and autosave in Cubase then also takes only a few seconds.


----------



## chemie262

ThomasS said:


> I don't know how you do this in 5 seconds, but would like to know exactly what you are saving.
> 
> Perhaps it depends on what you mean by "an entire orchestra."
> 
> Here are my timings of what I call an "entire orchestra template" (i.e. 63 tracks with every Opus instrument KS with all artculations enabled):
> 
> Loading the template (purged but enabled) = 1:47
> Saving the same template = 4:48
> Cubase RAM usage before adding notes = 15.763 GB
> 
> This is on Cubase 11, Windows 10, i7 6700, 64 Gb RAM, external Samsung SSD.
> 
> A faster processer and m.2 ssd would speed this up, but that is what I have.
> 
> You can see from the above that the real killer for Opus and Cubase is the nearly 5 minute save time, even for a raw template before adding midi data. Of course, you can open the template disabled in seconds, and only keep enabled what you use, but that affects my workflow, especially at the beginning when I like to have everything available and ready to work with, and not have to mess with enabling and disabling just to get going.
> 
> Opus is fantastastic with both the purge and keyswitch functions, but a large template is unworkable in Cubase 11 with the nearly 5 minute save time, because every time auto-save kicks in you have to stop working for 5 minutes. You can turn off auto-save, but because there are still crashes this is dangerous. (Crashes are particularly common when disabling tracks, so be careful.)
> 
> Therefore, until Cubase fixes its auto-save function to work in the background, and hopefully fixes its save speed in general, I cannot use Cubase alone with a full template of Opus. I'm currently hosting the Opus template in Reaper and still working solely in Cubase with midi tracks pointing to the Reaper channels. The Cubase template (midi only) opens in seconds, and as long as Reaper is open in the background it works perfectly, and autosave in Cubase then also takes only a few seconds.


For example a project of 33 MB. 3 instances of Opus (Woodwinds, Strings, Brass/Percussion - 33 instruments, 3 mike positions).
I use an external ssd. I will later on post a comparison of the project comparing Play and Opus.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

chemie262 said:


> For example a project of 33 MB. 3 instances of Opus (Woodwinds, Strings, Brass/Percussion - 33 instruments, 3 mike positions).
> I use an external ssd. I will later on post a comparison of the project comparing Play and Opus.


33MB or 33GB?


----------



## chemie262

Jeremy Spencer said:


> 33MB or 33GB?


These are the exact data:

PlayOpusloading time (project)27 ' 36 ''25 ''RAM29.4 GB8.6 GBCPU max10%15%export audio3 ' 9 ''1 ' 32 ''save project6 ''19 ''project size27.1 MB35.4 MB

The Computer is based on AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2950 (16 cores, 3.5 GHZ)
128 GB RAM
WIN 10 Pro
Opus is stored on a Corsair MP400 (read 3469 MB/s, write 3054 MB/s)
This is the comparison between Play and Opus. It's a mockup of Grieg's Morning Mood.
I did it with Opus and used the same settings afterwards with Play. For the strings I used the powerful system instruments. The Play instruments are louder. So the project should be adjusted accordingly, what I did not.
Generally Opus has the big advantage with the loading time of a project. I measured the time from the start of the download until I could play. Ram usage is much lower due to the purge function. But the CPU load is 50% higher. But the export of the audio takes half the time compared to Play.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

chemie262 said:


> These are the exact data:
> 
> PlayOpusloading time (project)27 ' 36 ''25 ''RAM29.4 GB8.6 GBCPU max10%15%export audio3 ' 9 ''1 ' 32 ''save project6 ''19 ''project size27.1 MB35.4 MB
> 
> The Computer is based on AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2950 (16 cores, 3.5 GHZ)
> 128 GB RAM
> WIN 10 Pro
> Opus is stored on a Corsair MP400 (read 3469 MB/s, write 3054 MB/s)
> This is the comparison between Play and Opus. It's a mockup of Grieg's Morning Mood.
> I did it with Opus and used the same settings afterwards with Play. For the strings I used the powerful system instruments. The Play instruments are louder. So the project should be adjusted accordingly, what I did not.
> Generally Opus has the bis advantage with the loading time of a project. I measured the time from the start of the download until I could play. Ram usage is much lower due to the purge function. But the CPU load is 50% higher. But the export of the audio takes half the time compared to Play.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but wouldn't your "actual" project size with Play be 29.4 GB + the 27.1 MB? That would be more realistic.


----------



## chemie262

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but wouldn't your "actual" project size with Play be 29.4 GB + the 27.1 MB? That would be more realistic.


29.4 GB is the RAM usage. This includes besides the instruments also Cubase and Windows.
27.1 MB is the project file on my ssd.


----------



## DarinD

Great mock-up! Thanks for the comparison.


----------



## cqd

OK.. a couple of things..
1..it's still unloading instances at start up..I have them saved, and there's only 4 of them to reload, but still..
The other thing is midi control..
I can't seem to turn on the legato via midi?..
It's on cc22, and I have a fader assigned to it, but doesn't seem to do anything?..
Anyone have any ideas?..


----------



## cqd

Never mind..Read the manual..
Mono true legato has to be enabled first, and can then be turned on(>62) or off(<62) with cc22..


----------



## Consona

Are there any good videos or audio demos of all the articulations?

Also, is Opus stuff as tightly programmed as Cinematic Studio Series?


----------



## Barza

JDK88 said:


> Are there any plugins like Hollywood Orchestrator but for any sample library?


Short answer: as Hollywood Orchestrator was developed in conjunction with Sonuscore, the ‘engines’ available with Sonuscore products have some similarities. But they are not the same and have fewer voices per instance than Orchestrator has. There are other products with some overlap but nothing that does exactly the same job.

Longer answer: Hollywood orchestrator works entirely off a chord input and turns that chord into a series of voices which have a predefined rhythm and play particular notes of the chord, transposed up and down the keyboard as necessary. It does this for four voices for winds, brass, strings, and then has rhythmic patterns for percussion. Other Sonuscore products (like The Orchestra) have a similar engine but can typically only produce up to 5 voices per instance. They are also a bit less flexible in terms of exactly what notes within the chord you can specify For each pattern.

There are a couple of plugins available that will generate melodies from a chord input in a similar way. Squaredheads Nora is one but it is no longer being developed. Phrase box by Venomode works in a similar way But only produces one voice. But these plugins don’t come with presets specifically designed for orchestral use like the Sonuscore stuff does.

A final observation. Hollywood orchestrator produces up to 15 channels of midi output, one for each of the voices it is generating. You can route that midi output to other VSTs (depending on your daw) so you could use orchestrator but direct the midi output from it to other sample libraries, synths, or whatever.


----------



## Zedcars

chemie262 said:


> These are the exact data:
> 
> PlayOpusloading time (project)27 ' 36 ''25 ''RAM29.4 GB8.6 GBCPU max10%15%export audio3 ' 9 ''1 ' 32 ''save project6 ''19 ''project size27.1 MB35.4 MB
> 
> The Computer is based on AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2950 (16 cores, 3.5 GHZ)
> 128 GB RAM
> WIN 10 Pro
> Opus is stored on a Corsair MP400 (read 3469 MB/s, write 3054 MB/s)
> This is the comparison between Play and Opus. It's a mockup of Grieg's Morning Mood.
> I did it with Opus and used the same settings afterwards with Play. For the strings I used the powerful system instruments. The Play instruments are louder. So the project should be adjusted accordingly, what I did not.
> Generally Opus has the big advantage with the loading time of a project. I measured the time from the start of the download until I could play. Ram usage is much lower due to the purge function. But the CPU load is 50% higher. But the export of the audio takes half the time compared to Play.


This is wonderful. Thank you for taking the time to do this and upload it. Very beautifully mocked up.

Please could you clarify which is which? They seem to both have the same names. As I look at it, the one to the right sounds better, but I just want to know if that's OPUS or Play.


----------



## Wabashprof

Barza said:


> Short answer: as Hollywood Orchestrator was developed in conjunction with Sonuscore, the ‘engines’ available with Sonuscore products have some similarities. But they are not the same and have fewer voices per instance than Orchestrator has. There are other products with some overlap but nothing that does exactly the same job.
> 
> Longer answer: Hollywood orchestrator works entirely off a chord input and turns that chord into a series of voices which have a predefined rhythm and play particular notes of the chord, transposed up and down the keyboard as necessary. It does this for four voices for winds, brass, strings, and then has rhythmic patterns for percussion. Other Sonuscore products (like The Orchestra) have a similar engine but can typically only produce up to 5 voices per instance. They are also a bit less flexible in terms of exactly what notes within the chord you can specify For each pattern.
> 
> There are a couple of plugins available that will generate melodies from a chord input in a similar way. Squaredheads Nora is one but it is no longer being developed. Phrase box by Venomode works in a similar way But only produces one voice. But these plugins don’t come with presets specifically designed for orchestral use like the Sonuscore stuff does.
> 
> A final observation. Hollywood orchestrator produces up to 15 channels of midi output, one for each of the voices it is generating. You can route that midi output to other VSTs (depending on your daw) so you could use orchestrator but direct the midi output from it to other sample libraries, synths, or whatever.


This is enormously helpful, especially for those of us who enjoy using tools like Orchestrator to generate ideas quickly. Two other tools that can transform chords via MIDI are ChordPotion and Harvest (in Live mode). As you noted about Phrasebox, they aren't designed with an orchestral focus, but I've found them useful for generating rhythm or voicing possibilities for static chords. Chord Prism does some similar and different things, but I've not tried it. Audiomodern's ChordJam was released yesterday. Good times for chord wranglers.


----------



## Barza

Chord prism puts a set of chords on an octave for your left hand, and as a chord is played the chord notes are made available on the white keys for right hand. Arpeggios are put on the black keys. it is another tool that can help with generation of a melody voice from a given chord or set of them. But tools which can generate multiple melody lines from a chord simultaneously (like Hollwood orchestrator does) are less common.

It is a real shame Nora is not still being developed, as it allows for 8 channels of midi to be generated from a single chord, and has a playlist so that the rhythm/melody pattern for each of the channels can vary though time. But given that Hollywood Orchestrator looks likely to be successful, it would be a surprise if other developers were not to bring out tools in a similar vein.

I have Chordjam: it seems a tool for generating chord progressions (with some variation/randomisation in both the chords and how they are played) rather than being a tool for generating melody lines.


----------



## chemie262

Zedcars said:


> This is wonderful. Thank you for taking the time to do this and upload it. Very beautifully mocked up.
> 
> Please could you clarify which is which? They seem to both have the same names. As I look at it, the one to the right sounds better, but I just want to know if that's OPUS or Play.


It seems, that the names are too long...
The left is with Opus and the right with Play.


----------



## José Herring

Consona said:


> Are there any good videos or audio demos of all the articulations?
> 
> Also, is Opus stuff as tightly programmed as Cinematic Studio Series?


I don't have CSS but I've had HO for a long time. 

HO was always well programmed. The Play version just had patches that weren't usable or downright confusing. So it took a lot of effort to get down to the patches that worked. Some of the shorts in the old version were way too loud. Harkenes back to the 90's trying to get the shorts as agressive as brass for action and trailler music.

Opus so far everything is better. Still some shorts that are good awful loud mainly the marcato sus patches in the strings. But other than that it's fairly well balanced and the programming improved and easier to use.

Opus is well worth the investment imo. It still has a little ways to go but I've been using it for a bit now everyday and it's been doing well. I don't use orchestrator have no need for it and honestly won't ever use it, but I'm glad it's their because it's forced EW to really look at what wasn't working in the patches and fix that because the orchestrator would have sounded terrible in the Play version with all the out of way and out of balanced patches in it. I'm sure that's the first thing they encountered by trying to implement the technology. The patches have to be really consistent for a thing like Orchestrator to work at all well.


----------



## AndyP

José Herring said:


> Opus so far everything is better. Still some shorts that are good awful loud mainly the marcato sus patches in the strings. But other than that it's fairly well balanced and the programming improved and easier to use.


The good thing is that in the KS patches you can adjust the volume for each articulation individually. So this is not a problem. The default settings are not quite balanced, but it can be changed.

Apart from a few minor bugs, OPUS has turned out very well. For me, definitely a significant improvement over HO in the Play version.

However, the memory management still makes me frown.


----------



## cqd

AndyP said:


> However, the memory management still makes me frown.


Ah, once you get a properly purged template sorted it's grand..I turned off the multicore and preload and it seems to be running better..

Yeah, if they managed to properly balance it it would be a help I suppose..


----------



## José Herring

AndyP said:


> The good thing is that in the KS patches you can adjust the volume for each articulation individually. So this is not a problem. The default settings are not quite balanced, but it can be changed.
> 
> Apart from a few minor bugs, OPUS has turned out very well. For me, definitely a significant improvement over HO in the Play version.
> 
> However, the memory management still makes me frown.


Thanks for letting me know this. I was trying to figure that out but could only spend about 3 minutes trying at the time.


----------



## Consona

José Herring said:


> I don't have CSS but I've had HO for a long time.
> 
> HO was always well programmed. The Play version just had patches that weren't usable or downright confusing. So it took a lot of effort to get down to the patches that worked. Some of the shorts in the old version were way too loud. Harkenes back to the 90's trying to get the shorts as agressive as brass for action and trailler music.
> 
> Opus so far everything is better. Still some shorts that are good awful loud mainly the marcato sus patches in the strings. But other than that it's fairly well balanced and the programming improved and easier to use.
> 
> Opus is well worth the investment imo. It still has a little ways to go but I've been using it for a bit now everyday and it's been doing well. I don't use orchestrator have no need for it and honestly won't ever use it, but I'm glad it's their because it's forced EW to really look at what wasn't working in the patches and fix that because the orchestrator would have sounded terrible in the Play version with all the out of way and out of balanced patches in it. I'm sure that's the first thing they encountered by trying to implement the technology. The patches have to be really consistent for a thing like Orchestrator to work at all well.


I just want a library capable of creating convincing musical lines. Something that can pull Williams pieces off. I really like the sound so was wondering how tight legato + shorts are programmed.

I think I'd get CCX, which is 1 room mic and the close mic. Do you think that's enough? I see people using all the mics in the youtube videos so I don't know how just 2 mics sound. Hope the sound is not anemic.


----------



## José Herring

Consona said:


> I just want a library capable of creating convincing musical lines. Something that can pull Williams pieces off. I really like the sound so was wondering how tight legato + shorts are programmed.
> 
> I think I'd get CCX, which is 1 room mic and the close mic. Do you think that's enough? I see people using all the mics in the youtube videos so I don't know how just 2 mics sound. Hope the sound is not anemic.


Not an anemic sound but after using HO Gold for years found it to be a little on the thin side for strings. Brass is okay with just the main mic. Woodwinds, meh, I used the tree and the close mic. Percussion wants the main mics+surround to give it a little distance from the orchestra.

The legato is really good. The shorts are really good and you get different types of shorts which I think kind of alludes people for some reason. What the sample world calls spiccato is really staccatissimo in my world. But maybe that's splitting hairs. Opus has staccatissimo, spiccato, marcato shorts, stacc on bow shorts, stacc slurs, ect... Lots of goodies in that bag that make convincing mockups even from the Play version.


----------



## Zedcars

I have tried to search for an answer to this problem I'm having installing it. I found a suggestion to remove the drive directory preference, restart and put the preference back in the EW IC, but it still won't work.

This is the error I get when I try to install most of the library:






Then I click OK and this pops up:






I have a fresh 8TB drive I bought especially for this task and yet the installation app seems to not want to use it. I installed EW Pop Brass yesterday onto the drive and also HW Orchestrator so it must be capable of recognising it and installing but not with the bulk of the library.

The error message doesn't make any sense to me since I am installing it _from_ a download _from_ their servers. Why would I have an "East West sample drive" unless I ordered the library on a physical EW drive (as opposed to a download)?

Any ideas?


----------



## FKVStudio

Zedcars said:


> I have tried to search for an answer to this problem I'm having installing it. I found a suggestion to remove the drive directory preference, restart and put the preference back in the EW IC, but it still won't work.
> 
> This is the error I get when I try to install most of the library:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I click OK and this pops up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a fresh 8TB drive I bought especially for this task and yet the installation app seems to not want to use it. I installed EW Pop Brass yesterday onto the drive and also HW Orchestrator so it must be capable of recognising it and installing but not with the bulk of the library.
> 
> The error message doesn't make any sense to me since I am installing it _from_ a download _from_ their servers. Why would I have an "East West sample drive" unless I ordered the library on a physical EW drive (as opposed to a download)?
> 
> Any ideas?


Accept and install the files it downloads. If they are installed on another drive, copy that folder to the final hard drive. Once they have been downloaded and copied to the folder, relocate it and select "download and reinstall" and all the library files will be downloaded to the desired folder.

That worked for me. Hope this can help you.


----------



## Zedcars

FKVStudio said:


> Accept and install the files it downloads. If they are installed on another drive, copy that folder to the final hard drive. Once they have been downloaded and copied to the folder, relocate it and select "download and reinstall" and all the library files will be downloaded to the desired folder.
> 
> That worked for me. Hope this can help you.


Thanks. I'll give it a try.


----------



## Consona

José Herring said:


> Not an anemic sound but after using HO Gold for years found it to be a little on the thin side for strings. Brass is okay with just the main mic. Woodwinds, meh, I used the tree and the close mic. Percussion wants the main mics+surround to give it a little distance from the orchestra.
> 
> The legato is really good. The shorts are really good and you get different types of shorts which I think kind of alludes people for some reason. What the sample world calls spiccato is really staccatissimo in my world. But maybe that's splitting hairs. Opus has staccatissimo, spiccato, marcato shorts, stacc on bow shorts, stacc slurs, ect... Lots of goodies in that bag that make convincing mockups even from the Play version.



The amount of articulations is great, as is the dynamic range. The only problem is, they should make some mixed mic position since loading like 4 or 5 mics for every articulation is insane. (I have only 16gb of ram.  A mix mic would be fantastic.)

Shame the comparison video is Gold and not CCX Gold with the additional close mics which would bring some more detail to the sound.
Anyway, I'll wait for the library to go on sale some day, then I'll decide.


----------



## Consona

Guys, give me some awesome demos and mock-ups.


----------



## lettucehat

Consona said:


> Guys, give me some awesome demos and mock-ups.


I don't think you'll hear much better than the Hollywood demos (Bergersen et al) that have been up for years. The Peer Gynt one on the last page was also among the best I've heard from HO/Opus, although I wish I could hear a drier version.


----------



## Consona

I need some of those Raider's Marches and Wrath of Khans and Jurassic Parks and whatnot.


----------



## jamayo514

Is anyone else having problems with Bbs and Ebs in the 2nd octave of the keyboard just not responding at all in orchestrator? Every other note works in orchestrator for me but these two.

I feel like Berklee's April fools joke from a few years back of eliminating Bb is actually happening to me


----------



## newbreednet

jamayo514 said:


> Is anyone else having problems with Bbs and Ebs in the 2nd octave of the keyboard just not responding at all in orchestrator? Every other note works in orchestrator for me but these two.
> 
> I feel like Berklee's April fools joke from a few years back of eliminating Bb is actually happening to me


it happens to me in some patches. I'm not sure if it's intentional or not?!

As in, maybe it's something do with the zones... I haven't dug deep enough yet to figure out if it's by design or a bug


----------



## Zedcars

FKVStudio said:


> Accept and install the files it downloads. If they are installed on another drive, copy that folder to the final hard drive. Once they have been downloaded and copied to the folder, relocate it and select "download and reinstall" and all the library files will be downloaded to the desired folder.
> 
> That worked for me. Hope this can help you.


It won't let me download anything further. All I get is that error message I posted before saying "EastWest sample drive not found". I have installed Brass, Strings, Orchestrator and Harp and that's it for Opus. I've opened a support ticket. I wonder if it has anything to do with me only owning Strings and Brass Diamond (which I paid a fortune for when they first came out). I did not originally purchase Percussion or WW HO as they didn't seem that good to my ears.


----------



## Zedcars

Rey said:


> i am trying to try to install the libraries one by one strings brass etc...but i am getting the 'sample drive not found"...and then "Warning disk full".
> 
> anyone having the same issue?
> for hollywood gold


I have had this problem since yesterday (only just purchased it). Did you manage to find a solution? It has let me install Orchestrator, Harp, Strings and Brass but nothing further.


----------



## newbreednet

Zedcars said:


> I have had this problem since yesterday (only just purchased it). Did you manage to find a solution? It has let me install Orchestrator, Harp, Strings and Brass but nothing further.


My installation was initially bodged too.
EW support were very good about fixing it, though


----------



## Zedcars

newbreednet said:


> My installation was initially bodged too.
> EW support were very good about fixing it, though


Thanks. They got back to me earlier with the solution. The rest of it is downloading now.


----------



## SlHarder




----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Does anybody know how to make the StacSl Leg BC + Slur + Port MAX patch behave like the Leg Slur patch? I'm using the KS patch so I can't add the Leg Slur + Port patch in which I would prefer. The Leg Slur transitions sound very smooth (like slurs) while the StacSl Leg BC + Slur + Port MAX patch always seems to sound like very sharp accents on each note. I've set velocity to > 60 and CC14 to < 50 and the notes are overlapping, which I believe is supposed to trigger the legato slur.


----------



## Zamenhof

I have a surprising issue with the *sensitivity grid *in OPUS. It doesn't work at all. No matter what setting I choose, the keyboard sensitivity is exactly the same. I'm using a NI Komplete Kontrol S88 as my controller, so nothing obscure. And it works in all other players, including PLAY with the exact same libraries. Does yours work?


----------



## Rey

Zedcars said:


> Thanks. They got back to me earlier with the solution. The rest of it is downloading now.


Hi sorry for the late reply. i didnt followed up with east west although i contacted them earlier and they gave some pointers. my c drive was running low anyway so decided what the heck and get a new ssd 1 tera and reinstall windows and opus. everything is working fine. although i get some files/samples not found, and you kinda have to redownload it. but the installer though sometimes its not installing full by part or the part size change sometimes full sometimes just 7gb when brass should be 20gb something. maybe some slight installer problem but keep trying and you should get it to download all the full intrument parts. 
anyway i wonder what was the solution they gave you?


----------



## Mojo X

Zamenhof said:


> I have a surprising issue with the *sensitivity grid *in OPUS. It doesn't work at all. No matter what setting I choose, the keyboard sensitivity is exactly the same. I'm using a NI Komplete Kontrol S88 as my controller, so nothing obscure. And it works in all other players, including PLAY with the exact same libraries. Does yours work?


I'm having the same exact experience.


----------



## djburton

Just a heads-up: there's a new Opus Product Support download (7.24) in the EW installation center. There should also be another Opus update coming soon. I did not hear this directly, but I was sent a beta installer by support last week which finally appears to have solved my (and a few others') "failure-to-save" problem. I'm expecting this to be an officially published update at some near-future point; the developers may be adding in some other fixes as well.

Eastwest support has been remarkably responsive (and in my case effective). Now if they can streamline the memory issues. Purging helps, but even as that improves usage, save and open times are, for me, torturously slow compared to Play.

DJB


----------



## Allen Constantine

djburton said:


> Just a heads-up: there's a new Opus Product Support download (7.24) in the EW installation center. There should also be another Opus update coming soon. I did not hear this directly, but I was sent a beta installer by support last week which finally appears to have solved my (and a few others') "failure-to-save" problem. I'm expecting this to be an officially published update at some near-future point; the developers may be adding in some other fixes as well.
> 
> Eastwest support has been remarkably responsive (and in my case effective). Now if they can streamline the memory issues. Purging helps, but even as that improves usage, save and open times are, for me, torturously slow compared to Play.
> 
> DJB


Great to hear! They still need to address the sample rate problem mentioned here!

Taken from @SymphonicSamples 

"I found after testing many things recently the performance issues of the Opus engine is directly related to what your audio interface buffer size in use is set to. The larger the buffer size setting is set to the greater the drop notes/poor timing becomes and issues dramatically increases in direct relation to that setting. This is easily tested by just loading a percussion combo kit in opus when in standalone and not inside your Daw, playing 2 snares quickly. Change your audio interfaces buffer settings and it become quickly evident and shockingly bad at larger buffer settings. This naturally doesn't effect Play 6 or Kontakt in such a simple test as it shouldn't given a larger buffer normally would only add latency but still play all notes correctly. Clearly the Opus engine is super sensitive to the buffer sizes in it's current build. This naturally becomes an issue if you have a large project with a lot of instances of Opus running when you use small buffer sizes. At least it may help some users out knowing this who have experienced similar problems during playback. Hope to see some optimization in an update soon."


----------



## Sanjay 1880

Product Support 7.2.4 in the installation center.Just a headsup.


----------



## Zamenhof

djburton said:


> Just a heads-up: there's a new Opus Product Support download (7.24) in the EW installation center. There should also be another Opus update coming soon.


I'm not really sure what Product Support does. But the update didn't solve my issue with sensitivity control. I've tried other controllers now, and nothing happens when I change the curve. It's incredibly annoying.


----------



## djburton

Zamenhof said:


> I'm not really sure what Product Support does. But the update didn't solve my issue with sensitivity control. I've tried other controllers now, and nothing happens when I change the curve. It's incredibly annoying.


The anticipated program update I referenced hasn't been published yet - when it is, I hope it addresses the sensitivity control issue, and the audio interface buffer problem, neither of which I've had occasion to notice as I was totally focused on saving instances.

As to the Product Support 7.24 file, like you, I'm not sure what it does, but this morning when I tried to download it EWIC just suspended waiting for a download to start, so I closed it. No time to try again today. My system will be busy downloading the Spitfire BBCSO Pro update I got in their sale, which takes days over my primitive DSL connection.

DJB


----------



## cqd

I had just been saving my templates as performances, so loading them up wasn't a majorissue..Will be nice to have the saving issue sorted though..


----------



## AndyP

Sometimes I can't change the controllers via the Midi Control Panel. This happens mostly in EPIC mode. 
I have to switch to the Automation menu to make it work.
Has anyone experienced something similar?


----------



## Zamenhof

djburton said:


> The anticipated program update I referenced hasn't been published yet - when it is, I hope it addresses the sensitivity control issue, and the audio interface buffer problem, neither of which I've had occasion to notice as I was totally focused on saving instances.


EW Support were quick to reply and they told me that the sensitivity control is a known bug that will be fixed in the next release. Great!


----------



## EgM

Haven't said anything since Opus' release but anytime there's updates, Product Support, Opus player, etc., the EW Installation Center fails to start the update installer which resides usually in ~/Downloads

[On MacOS Mojave, btw]

So then you have to run the update installer manually.

This could be a problem for less savvy users...


----------



## dsharpie

Several instrument updates in Installation Center this morning...


----------



## cedricm

If you had enough money to either
A. Upgrade Spitfire BBC Symphony Orchestra Core to Professional
or
B. Purchase 1 year of EW Composer Cloud Plus to get access to the Composer and much more

What would you do?


----------



## Frederick

cedricm said:


> If you had enough money to either
> A. Upgrade Spitfire BBC Symphony Orchestra Core to Professional
> or
> B. Purchase 1 year of EW Composer Cloud Plus to get access to the Composer and much more
> 
> What would you do?


A, because after one year you'll get to keep BBCSO Pro. You wouldn't be able to make any changes to the MIDI of your EW projects anymore after that year, unless you'd buy another subscription.

After a couple of years of not having the subscription buy EWHO Opus edition with the saved money. That's how I would go about it. In the long run you'd own it all.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

cedricm said:


> If you had enough money to either
> A. Upgrade Spitfire BBC Symphony Orchestra Core to Professional
> or
> B. Purchase 1 year of EW Composer Cloud Plus to get access to the Composer and much more
> 
> What would you do?


If BBCSO suits your needs, as far as the sound itself is concerned, then I would upgrade to Pro. Otherwise, I'd try a one month sub to CC Plus....and if you totally like it, then wait for the next Opus sale and buy it outright. Alternately, you could go with the CCX subscription, as it's perfectly fine if you don't absolutely need all of the different mic's.


----------



## MarcusD

Sorry if this has already been answered, but has anyone had issues with the snares? When alternating between two keys to create rolls and quick passages, OPUS seems to stumble and not trigger samples correctly. Doesn't happen with PLAY.


----------



## Mojo X

Has anyone else experienced cc11 not working as expected? For instance, on flute leg slur max I fade a note in, but can't always fade it out. It doesn't always happen. It also occurs with Oboe leg. There may be more patches it does this on, I'm only aware of these two.


----------



## Allen Constantine

MarcusD said:


> Sorry if this has already been answered, but has anyone had issues with the snares? When alternating between two keys to create rolls and quick passages, OPUS seems to stumble and not trigger samples correctly. Doesn't happen with PLAY.


Great to hear! They still need to address the sample rate problem mentioned here!

Taken from @SymphonicSamples 

"I found after testing many things recently the performance issues of the Opus engine is directly related to what your audio interface buffer size in use is set to. The larger the buffer size setting is set to the greater the drop notes/poor timing becomes and issues dramatically increases in direct relation to that setting. This is easily tested by just loading a percussion combo kit in opus when in standalone and not inside your Daw, playing 2 snares quickly. Change your audio interfaces buffer settings and it become quickly evident and shockingly bad at larger buffer settings. This naturally doesn't effect Play 6 or Kontakt in such a simple test as it shouldn't given a larger buffer normally would only add latency but still play all notes correctly. Clearly the Opus engine is super sensitive to the buffer sizes in it's current build. This naturally becomes an issue if you have a large project with a lot of instances of Opus running when you use small buffer sizes. At least it may help some users out knowing this who have experienced similar problems during playback. Hope to see some optimization in an update soon."


----------



## BasariStudios

Has anyone gotten the Opus Player for their other Libraries?
I don't own the Opus Edition but how do one get the Player?


----------



## Henu

Check this thread, @BasariStudios !






Opus engine for all the OTHER EW products?


It’s probably been answered elsewhere but I cannot find the answer. What are the advantages of using the Opus engine for other EW/QL products, such as ... Gypsy. I didn’t find the answer on EW website either. I own several EW products and may buy more (not necessarily Opus). But I can’t quite...




vi-control.net


----------



## DrTim

I'm having an issue with Hollywood Orchestrator in Logic Pro X where the playback is delayed by about 200-500ms, ruining synchronization with the rest of the project. Does anyone know of any solutions in Logic to fix this? I'm aware I can move the midi region to compensate, as well as BIP, and then move the waveform, but I'd prefer a more real-time solution. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Braveheart

BasariStudios said:


> Has anyone gotten the Opus Player for their other Libraries?
> I don't own the Opus Edition but how do one get the Player?


For now, you have to buy something to get Opus for free.


----------



## topijokinen

DrTim said:


> I'm having an issue with Hollywood Orchestrator in Logic Pro X where the playback is delayed by about 200-500ms, ruining synchronization with the rest of the project. Does anyone know of any solutions in Logic to fix this? I'm aware I can move the midi region to compensate, as well as BIP, and then move the waveform, but I'd prefer a more real-time solution. Thanks in advance.


Theres intentional delay according to devs. Dont remember the actual amount (probably 400 ms), but I think it was here in this thread. Negative track delay should solve the problem.


----------



## newbreednet

DrTim said:


> I'm having an issue with Hollywood Orchestrator in Logic Pro X where the playback is delayed by about 200-500ms, ruining synchronization with the rest of the project. Does anyone know of any solutions in Logic to fix this? I'm aware I can move the midi region to compensate, as well as BIP, and then move the waveform, but I'd prefer a more real-time solution. Thanks in advance.


this is how I do it.... choose "delay" in the region inspector, then pick a time value that gets it more in sync. (or use the track inspector to apply it to all regions in the same track.)


----------



## Jay F.

I have an issue with ministry of rock2
After a while playing guitar with the keyswitch instrument, the high frequencies dissapear


----------



## kingy10kingy

I'm getting note drop outs ... I especially notice it when there are multiple instruments loaded into Opus.. Anyone else getting this??


----------



## Toecutter

Braveheart said:


> For now, you have to buy something to get Opus for free.


And it will only work for the library I bought, or all the other libraries will be Opus compatible once I buy one? This is still confusing to me


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Toecutter said:


> And it will only work for the library I bought, or all the other libraries will be Opus compatible once I buy one? This is still confusing to me


It will be available for all libraries you have (besides the Hollywood Orchestra...and maybe solo instruments) Basically the OPUS player is compatible with them all, you just get it free with a new purchase.


----------



## Allen Constantine

kingy10kingy said:


> I'm getting note drop outs ... I especially notice it when there are multiple instruments loaded into Opus.. Anyone else getting this??


Taken from @SymphonicSamples 

"I found after testing many things recently the performance issues of the Opus engine is directly related to what your audio interface buffer size in use is set to. The larger the buffer size setting is set to the greater the drop notes/poor timing becomes and issues dramatically increases in direct relation to that setting. This is easily tested by just loading a percussion combo kit in opus when in standalone and not inside your Daw, playing 2 snares quickly. Change your audio interfaces buffer settings and it become quickly evident and shockingly bad at larger buffer settings. This naturally doesn't effect Play 6 or Kontakt in such a simple test as it shouldn't given a larger buffer normally would only add latency but still play all notes correctly. Clearly the Opus engine is super sensitive to the buffer sizes in it's current build. This naturally becomes an issue if you have a large project with a lot of instances of Opus running when you use small buffer sizes. At least it may help some users out knowing this who have experienced similar problems during playback. Hope to see some optimization in an update soon."


----------



## newbreednet

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Does anybody know how to make the StacSl Leg BC + Slur + Port MAX patch behave like the Leg Slur patch? I'm using the KS patch so I can't add the Leg Slur + Port patch in which I would prefer. The Leg Slur transitions sound very smooth (like slurs) while the StacSl Leg BC + Slur + Port MAX patch always seems to sound like very sharp accents on each note. I've set velocity to > 60 and CC14 to < 50 and the notes are overlapping, which I believe is supposed to trigger the legato slur.


you can add whatever patches to want to keyswitches. check this short clip out. this guy is making really useful videos about using Opus


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

newbreednet said:


> you can add whatever patches to want to keyswitches. check this short clip out. this guy is making really useful videos about using Opus



Thanks but that’s not what I was referring to. The KS patch only has a subset of all the articulations available and you cannot add any additional articulations to the patch. His video is very basic - there is a way to create a large patch with non-KS patch articulations using midi channels but he doesn’t cover that.


----------



## newbreednet

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Thanks but that’s not what I was referring to. The KS patch only has a subset of all the articulations available and you cannot add any additional articulations to the patch. His video is very basic - there is a way to create a large patch with non-KS patch articulations using midi channels but he doesn’t cover that.


Oh, apologies... I admit I posted this without checking first - I just stumbled across the video on YT and remembered that there had been a question in the thread about changing the keyswitches. 

Kinda annoying that the KS patch doesn't have all the articulations, I just assumed that it did.


----------



## Orchestrata

Jay F. said:


> I have an issue with ministry of rock2
> After a while playing guitar with the keyswitch instrument, the high frequencies dissapcutoff linked to mod wheel





Jay F. said:


> I have an issue with ministry of rock2
> After a while playing guitar with the keyswitch instrument, the high frequencies dissapear


Cutoff is sometimes linked to the mod wheel, perhaps that's the culprit?


----------



## kingy10kingy

AllenConstantine said:


> Taken from @SymphonicSamples
> 
> "I found after testing many things recently the performance issues of the Opus engine is directly related to what your audio interface buffer size in use is set to. The larger the buffer size setting is set to the greater the drop notes/poor timing becomes and issues dramatically increases in direct relation to that setting. This is easily tested by just loading a percussion combo kit in opus when in standalone and not inside your Daw, playing 2 snares quickly. Change your audio interfaces buffer settings and it become quickly evident and shockingly bad at larger buffer settings. This naturally doesn't effect Play 6 or Kontakt in such a simple test as it shouldn't given a larger buffer normally would only add latency but still play all notes correctly. Clearly the Opus engine is super sensitive to the buffer sizes in it's current build. This naturally becomes an issue if you have a large project with a lot of instances of Opus running when you use small buffer sizes. At least it may help some users out knowing this who have experienced similar problems during playback. Hope to see some optimization in an update soon."



I have been trying to contact East West support regarding the dropped notes but after an initial response they have been ignoring my emails . Not very happy ....


----------



## Allen Constantine

kingy10kingy said:


> I have been trying to contact East West support regarding the dropped notes but after an initial response they have been ignoring my emails . Not very happy ....


Sad to hear about this! Same thing happened to me as well... Not very nice! I'll keep trying contacting them and check about this!


----------



## Allen Constantine

Okay, so there is an Opus update available through the Installation Center as well as an update for the Orchestrator!

Feel free to download them and try out the rest!

EW support told me this - 





 Michael

 Tue, 06/01/21 7:44 pm
 
 Hello Allen,

There certainly are some buffer size issues, though snare dropouts should be fixed not by that but by downloading the latest engine and the updates to the libraries available in the EW Installation Center.

Best,
Michael​


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Might already be known, but 1.0.2 of the OPUS player and an update for the Orchestrator are also available now.


----------



## Allen Constantine

AllenConstantine said:


> Okay, so there is an Opus update available through the Installation Center as well as an update for the Orchestrator!
> 
> Feel free to download them and try out the rest!
> 
> EW support told me this -
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> Michael
> 
> ​
> Tue, 06/01/21 7:44 pm
> 
> 
> Hello Allen,
> 
> There certainly are some buffer size issues, though snare dropouts should be fixed not by that but by downloading the latest engine and the updates to the libraries available in the EW Installation Center.
> 
> Best,
> Michael​


EDIT: on these new updates they mentioned - I can get a lot of crashes while loading patches!!! hmmm.... I guess something else is broken... 

At least the sample rates and the notes dropouts seem to be gone or let's say - harder to notice even at 512 buffer size. 

But the crashes .... What a bummer....


----------



## AndyP

AllenConstantine said:


> EDIT: on these new updates they mentioned - I can get a lot of crashes while loading patches!!! hmmm.... I guess something else is broken...
> 
> At least the sample rates and the notes dropouts seem to be gone or let's say - harder to notice even at 512 buffer size.
> 
> But the crashes .... What a bummer....


Oh, Windows or Mac? Maybe I'll wait with the update, don't want to ruin my work.


----------



## Allen Constantine

AndyP said:


> Oh, Windows or Mac? Maybe I'll wait with the update, don't want to ruin my work.


Windows here!


----------



## AndyP

AllenConstantine said:


> Windows here!


Thank you! I will take the risk and update in the hope that it will not crash on my Mac. Whereas the now and then already occur.


----------



## Allen Constantine

AndyP said:


> Thank you! I will take the risk and update in the hope that it will not crash on my Mac. Whereas the now and then already occur.


Fingers crossed, man! 

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## AndyP

So, the good news. So far no crashes since the update. The bad news, all my homemade Orchestrator patches are gone.


----------



## Allen Constantine

AndyP said:


> So, the good news. So far no crashes since the update. The bad news, all my homemade Orchestrator patches are gone.


Yikes..... that sucks about the Orch patches. 

So, no crashes while in standalone mode? Or did you try it only in DAW? 

Try loading 3-4 patches, go to the mix tab and put some EQ, distortion on them and play a bit with each loaded patch individually. 

Let's see if it happens...


----------



## AndyP

So far only in the DAW. I'll try out standalone right away.

The fact that my Orchestrator patches are gone is really bad though. There were 2 dozen of them and it took me a while to build them.
What do I learn from this ... make a backup before updating. (The same crap as with Spitfire BBCSO, my user patches were gone after the update).

Fortunately my user KS patches are still there.


----------



## AndyP

AllenConstantine said:


> Yikes..... that sucks about the Orch patches.
> 
> So, no crashes while in standalone mode? Or did you try it only in DAW?
> 
> Try loading 3-4 patches, go to the mix tab and put some EQ, distortion on them and play a bit with each loaded patch individually.
> 
> Let's see if it happens...


Works so far ... no crashes. I've loaded up 8 patches with eq, distortion, tape sat ... no issues so far.


----------



## Allen Constantine

AndyP said:


> Works so far ... no crashes. I've loaded up 8 patches with eq, distortion, tape sat ... no issues so far.


Thanks for the update. This is strange... maybe it happens only on Windows. Still investigating the cause... 

Re the custom patches - man that's a bummer... beta testing, here we come )


----------



## Allen Constantine

AllenConstantine said:


> Thanks for the update. This is strange... maybe it happens only on Windows. Still investigating the cause...
> 
> Re the custom patches - man that's a bummer... beta testing, here we come )


What about if you load up the Orchestral Perc Basics Kit 1 and you fast play F and G - starting from middle C - just to trigger the snare samples. Do you hear dropouts? I still can hear them ( make sure you're on 512 buffer size)


----------



## AndyP

Oh man, the spic runs under Effects of the violins, cellos and divisi are totally different from the Play version and almost unusable. 
I will have to go back to the Play version for these patches.


----------



## Allen Constantine

From further investigations - it seems that the crashes are happening while you play something and change the moods from epic to soft or classic to soft, try different combos. 

Surely this new update has a problem... at least for me! Sample rate still not fix, now crashes... shit...


----------



## AndyP

AllenConstantine said:


> What about if you load up the Orchestral Perc Basics Kit 1 and you fast play F and G - starting from middle C - just to trigger the snare samples. Do you hear dropouts? I still can hear them ( make sure you're on 512 buffer size)


The same here. With 256 are slightly less drop outs, but still clearly present


----------



## AndyP

With a buffersize of 128 it becomes usable. But it still can't be when they say it would be better with the update. Maybe a protection claim.


----------



## Allen Constantine

AndyP said:


> With a buffersize of 128 it becomes usable. But it still can't be when they say it would be better with the update. Maybe a protection claim.


Exactly my point and @SymphonicSamples can agree on that as well! 

128 is usable! Going higher, is a mess! 

Man, there's so many bugs that needs to be addressed as of now!!! 

Yeah, so the new crashes are happening only when switching moods while playing, apparently!


----------



## AndyP

AllenConstantine said:


> Exactly my point and @SymphonicSamples can agree on that as well!
> 
> 128 is usable! Going higher, is a mess!
> 
> Man, there's so many bugs that needs to be addressed as of now!!!
> 
> Yeah, so the new crashes are happening only when switching moods while playing, apparently!


In fact, I haven't noticed it so drastically yet since I usually use Cineperc.

But yes, it is definitely a problem and in the context of other instruments it can be overheard.

Most of the time I use a buffer of 256 and with some patches it's less of a problem, like short strings.

I hope EW can fix the problems quickly. I can hardly imagine that they did not know before the release. Will have its reason since the release has delayed so long, but I expect already that such problems with the day of the release no longer occur.

If they also manage to make some patches playable again as they are in play it would be a dream. Unless it is intentional, but if the playable runs spic behave so that the first note remains silent and only the notes with transition are played it is no longer the patch it should be. Then they are just slur without spic and with a blank note at the beginning. Nope, not good.


----------



## MauroPantin

AllenConstantine said:


> Yeah, so the new crashes are happening only when switching moods while playing, apparently!


This happens to me from the start. Switching moods whilst playback is ocurring (or the tail of a verb is happening) crashes OPUS. Thankfully it's set and forget on my template, but yeah, it's still rough around the edges.


----------



## Allen Constantine

I guess we will just have to wait until Opus gets a 6.0.0 version, LOL! 

Let's just hope that the expectancy is not in years...


----------



## Consona

Could anyone mock-up this snippet? I need to decide whether I fricking have to buy Sample Modeling stuff or if Opus can handle this well. All the other traditional sample libraries sound quite bad playing this stuff. :/


----------



## MarcusD

AllenConstantine said:


> Great to hear! They still need to address the sample rate problem mentioned here!
> 
> Taken from @SymphonicSamples
> 
> "I found after testing many things recently the performance issues of the Opus engine is directly related to what your audio interface buffer size in use is set to. The larger the buffer size setting is set to the greater the drop notes/poor timing becomes and issues dramatically increases in direct relation to that setting. This is easily tested by just loading a percussion combo kit in opus when in standalone and not inside your Daw, playing 2 snares quickly. Change your audio interfaces buffer settings and it become quickly evident and shockingly bad at larger buffer settings. This naturally doesn't effect Play 6 or Kontakt in such a simple test as it shouldn't given a larger buffer normally would only add latency but still play all notes correctly. Clearly the Opus engine is super sensitive to the buffer sizes in it's current build. This naturally becomes an issue if you have a large project with a lot of instances of Opus running when you use small buffer sizes. At least it may help some users out knowing this who have experienced similar problems during playback. Hope to see some optimization in an update soon."



Thanks Allen. Was starting to spend too much time figuring it out.

Tried buffer settings of 16 & 64, it helped. However, when adding more instances of OPUS the problem soon reared it's ugly head again. :(


----------



## chrpochon

Consona said:


> Could anyone mock-up this snippet? I need to decide whether I fricking have to buy Sample Modeling stuff or if Opus can handle this well. All the other traditional sample libraries sound quite bad playing this stuff. :/


I've tried, but your midifile seems to have a problem : too dense modwheel datas made Opus (or Logic, I don't know) miss some notes. I'll maybe try again later. Questions :

- When I loaded the midifile, the track was called horns. Did you mean french horns ? How many ?
- Do you want some articulations or should I keep "long" all the time ?


----------



## alcorey

chrpochon said:


> I've tried, but your midifile seems to have a problem : too dense modwheel datas made Opus (or Logic, I don't know) miss some notes. I'll maybe try again later. Questions :
> 
> - When I loaded the midifile, the track was called horns. Did you mean french horns ? How many ?
> - Do you want some articulations or should I keep "long" all the time ?


I'm in Logic also and I had to nudge A#3 at 3411 forward to approx 341 69 to get it to play - that was the only note that didn't play for me. I just threw 2 Trumpets "2TP Leg Slur Max" on it and it seemed OK.

Consona - Not understanding quite what you would like to see/hear.... do you have an audio sample of what you're hoping for?


----------



## alcorey

After a little more investigation I saw the modulation was climbing at the beginning of that A#3 note and for some reason it wouldn't sound - at least for me in Logic. I put the A#3 back in its original position and moved the modulation up to 80 in the midi editor "before" the note was to sound and it's fine now - the whole snippet now plays OK


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Consona said:


> Could anyone mock-up this snippet? I need to decide whether I fricking have to buy Sample Modeling stuff or if Opus can handle this well. All the other traditional sample libraries sound quite bad playing this stuff. :/


Well, I'm sure you've heard Hollywood Orchestra over the years. If you don't like it, then you won't like Opus. Pretty much the same libraries.


----------



## Consona

chrpochon said:


> I've tried, but your midifile seems to have a problem : too dense modwheel datas made Opus (or Logic, I don't know) miss some notes. I'll maybe try again later. Questions :
> 
> - When I loaded the midifile, the track was called horns. Did you mean french horns ? How many ?
> - Do you want some articulations or should I keep "long" all the time ?


It's a midi I found here on VI-C in some mock-up comparison thread.






Just wanted to hear how a horn ensemble from Opus handles a fast melody like this.



alcorey said:


> Consona - Not understanding quite what you would like to see/hear.... do you have an audio sample of what you're hoping for?









Jeremy Spencer said:


> Well, I'm sure you've heard Hollywood Orchestra over the years. If you don't like it, then you won't like Opus. Pretty much the same libraries.


I've heard legatos are better programmed in Opus, hence me wondering...


----------



## MarcusD

Consona said:


> It's a midi I found here on VI-C in some mock-up comparison thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to hear how a horn ensemble from Opus handles a fast melody like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard legatos are better programmed in Opus, hence me wondering...




Just quickly lobbed that MIDI on the 6 French Horn KS patch, upped the modwheel data, quickly changed the velocity on notes and used Long Sus, Marc Long and Stacs for switches. Probably get closes'ish if you take the time to massage it. 

This is a butchers approach.

View attachment test.mp3


----------



## José Herring

Consona said:


> Could anyone mock-up this snippet? I need to decide whether I fricking have to buy Sample Modeling stuff or if Opus can handle this well. All the other traditional sample libraries sound quite bad playing this stuff. :/


Gave it a shot with 2 versions of HB and a version of Caspian.


----------



## Jay F.

Orchestrata said:


> Cutoff is sometimes linked to the mod wheel, perhaps that's the culprit?


Thx!!! The issue disappeared like the hi-frequencies before


----------



## Allen Constantine

MarcusD said:


> Thanks Allen. Was starting to spend too much time figuring it out.
> 
> Tried buffer settings of 16 & 64, it helped. However, when adding more instances of OPUS the problem soon reared it's ugly head again. :(


Yeah, I'm also guessing that it has a memory issue... 

Would be really nice if EW suppport can fix these things.... They are major, that's for sure!!!


----------



## Consona

Thanks guys. I think I'm gonna get Infinite Brass.


----------



## José Herring

Consona said:


> Thanks guys. I think I'm gonna get Infinite Brass.


Can anybody post an example with Infinite Brass?


----------



## Consona

MarcusD said:


> Just quickly lobbed that MIDI on the 6 French Horn KS patch, upped the modwheel data, quickly changed the velocity on notes and used Long Sus, Marc Long and Stacs for switches. Probably get closes'ish if you take the time to massage it.
> 
> This is a butchers approach.
> 
> View attachment test.mp3


Hm hm hm... Had to listen to it again... I like the sound a lot, but the transitions are too pronounced. Is it because of the high dynamics or the marcato attack? Can it do some mellow legato? Also, the phrase in the piece is way quieter, dunno why the midi is programmed so blasty.


----------



## José Herring

Consona said:


> Hm hm hm... Had to listen to it again... I like the sound a lot, but the transitions are too pronounced. Is it because of the high dynamics or the marcato attack? Can it do some mellow legato? Also, the phrase in the piece is way quieter, dunno why the midi is programmed so blasty.


I find that HB works well for the high bombast but struggles at lot in the lower dynamics. Just isn't very delicate and the legatos in the lower range are so damn slow. 

I'm looking into the Aaron venture stuff though. The Swanlake comparison is fairly eye opening.


----------



## TomaeusD

Here is a quick test with SM Brass and Breeze+Precedence+Valhalla Room. I'll post a dry and panned version, too.


----------



## Rey

kingy10kingy said:


> I'm getting note drop outs ... I especially notice it when there are multiple instruments loaded into Opus.. Anyone else getting this??


usually its still loading instruments...give it a few seconds usually a minute or 2


----------



## MarcusD

Consona said:


> Hm hm hm... Had to listen to it again... I like the sound a lot, but the transitions are too pronounced. Is it because of the high dynamics or the marcato attack?



That's because I changed the velocity, before seeing you wanted JW, I was guessing what the sound would be. 



Consona said:


> Can it do some mellow legato?



It can go softer. I'd say HWB is good for mid to loud and bombastic styles. Melodic lines require time to get them to sound convincing. Legatos transitions do vary from patch to patch, some sound OK, others, not so great. Which might cause you to use something else.

Just quickly played this in on 6 French Horns Legato Slur MAX patch, to give you an idea. The main thing is the brass tone is very nice, just requires the user to do a little extra work for certain things.

6FH Legato Slur MAX
View attachment sw.mp3


6FH Short Stac MOD (Dynamics on Modwheel)
View attachment 6FH.mp3


----------



## SlHarder




----------



## ned3000

The update doesn't have a fix for the fact that sample data is *not shared* among instances within the Opus player. Really hoping for a fix to that as Opus is basically a doorstop for me until that's working.

As painful as it is, I'm in the process of bringing in the old Play instruments for a project I'm working on even though I just paid $500 for the upgrade ...


----------



## Consona

Thx for the demos. The sound is very nice, but I agree the legato really struggles at the low dynamics. It's crazy comparing it to the real piece where everything is so smooth. Even SM souded bumpy for some reason. I think Infinite should handle it the best.


----------



## wkundrus

AllenConstantine said:


> @wkundrus - any updates on this?


We can reproduce the the problem and will work on it for the next maintenance release.


----------



## Allen Constantine

wkundrus said:


> We can reproduce the the problem and will work on it for the next maintenance release.


Awesome! Thanks! 

@SymphonicSamples


----------



## SymphonicSamples

That's good news Allen. It's an important one to be resolve. I'm glad they have it in mind for the next maintenance release.


----------



## cqd

I saw on bookface there they announced Opus v 1.0.2 a while ago..


----------



## ThomasS

The Orchestrator has been out for six weeks and I have not heard any user demos of the “Hollywood blockbusters” they say we could write quickly. The walkthrough only shows presets playing a few bars of patterns, and I’ve been waiting for the second video, promising to show how to “write an entire piece” using the orchestrator. I finally decided to try myself, but having never used East West or Play it was a slow learning curve. Here are my first three attempts using Orchestrator scores and some added Opus sounds. Everything is 100% Opus (and 90% The Orchestrator.)
View attachment A Black Night.mp3

View attachment Family Misadventure.mp3

View attachment The Dork Hero.mp3


----------



## newbreednet

ThomasS said:


> The Orchestrator has been out for six weeks and I have not heard any user demos of the “Hollywood blockbusters” they say we could write quickly. The walkthrough only shows presets playing a few bars of patterns, and I’ve been waiting for the second video, promising to show how to “write an entire piece” using the orchestrator. I finally decided to try myself, but having never used East West or Play it was a slow learning curve. Here are my first three attempts using Orchestrator scores and some added Opus sounds. Everything is 100% Opus (and 90% The Orchestrator.)
> View attachment A Black Night.mp3
> 
> View attachment Family Misadventure.mp3
> 
> View attachment The Dork Hero.mp3


wow those sound fantastic! may i ask what reverb/processing are you using?


----------



## ThomasS

I used the Orchestrator and Opus Diamond striaght out of the box - I didn't change their preset reverb or mic settings, and kept everything with the Orange mood mix. In fact, some of the patches need some longer or shorter verbs, but I was just trying out how to use the Orchestrator, so I haven't messed with that yet. The only processing you hear is that I ran the master through Ozone 9 with the "analogue dream" preset, which doesn't over-compress but gives a full vintage sound in my opinion.


----------



## newbreednet

ThomasS said:


> I used the Orchestrator and Opus Diamond striaght out of the box - I didn't change their preset reverb or mic settings, and kept everything with the Orange mood mix. In fact, some of the patches need some longer or shorter verbs, but I was just trying out how to use the Orchestrator, so I haven't messed with that yet. The only processing you hear is that I ran the master through Ozone 9 with the "analogue dream" preset, which doesn't over-compress but gives a full vintage sound in my opinion.


oooh! wonderful! looks like I need to investigate Ozone 9 - your Opus mixes sound really big and round in a way that I haven't been able to make mine sound like yet! thank you!!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

ThomasS said:


> The Orchestrator has been out for six weeks and I have not heard any user demos of the “Hollywood blockbusters” they say we could write quickly. The walkthrough only shows presets playing a few bars of patterns, and I’ve been waiting for the second video, promising to show how to “write an entire piece” using the orchestrator. I finally decided to try myself, but having never used East West or Play it was a slow learning curve. Here are my first three attempts using Orchestrator scores and some added Opus sounds. Everything is 100% Opus (and 90% The Orchestrator.)
> View attachment A Black Night.mp3
> 
> View attachment Family Misadventure.mp3
> 
> View attachment The Dork Hero.mp3


Awesome stuff! Shows how powerful the Orchestrator can be. Did you use it primarily for the background and throw on your own melodies on top?


----------



## ThomasS

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Awesome stuff! Shows how powerful the Orchestrator can be. Did you use it primarily for the background and throw on your own melodies on top?


Yeah, I had to reverse the way I work. Normally I come up with melodies and melodic rhythms first and then experiment with chords and accompaniment to suit that. But with the orchestrator I started first with chord progressions and rhythmic grooves and added melodies over the top, using Opus sounds. The cool thing is how well Opus instruments blend with the Orchestrator presets.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

ThomasS said:


> Yeah, I had to reverse the way I work. Normally I come up with melodies and melodic rhythms first and then experiment with chords and accompaniment to suit that. But with the orchestrator I started first with chord progressions and rhythmic grooves and added melodies over the top, using Opus sounds. The cool thing is how well Opus instruments blend with the Orchestrator presets.


Great stuff. Did you use the presets that came with Orchestrator or did you create your own?


----------



## alcorey

ThomasS said:


> The Orchestrator has been out for six weeks and I have not heard any user demos of the “Hollywood blockbusters” they say we could write quickly. The walkthrough only shows presets playing a few bars of patterns, and I’ve been waiting for the second video, promising to show how to “write an entire piece” using the orchestrator. I finally decided to try myself, but having never used East West or Play it was a slow learning curve. Here are my first three attempts using Orchestrator scores and some added Opus sounds. Everything is 100% Opus (and 90% The Orchestrator.)
> View attachment A Black Night.mp3
> 
> View attachment Family Misadventure.mp3
> 
> View attachment The Dork Hero.mp3


Really nice Thomas, thanks for sharing your hard work!


----------



## ThomasS

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Great stuff. Did you use the presets that came with Orchestrator or did you create your own?


I did as little work as I possibly could. I just opened up the first three "scores" and started messing around with chord progressions. I didn't modify them in any way, and didn't even use the function to eliminate a section for variation. Of course, I want to make my own presets in the future, but messing around with their premade "scores" is a good way to learn how to make them. I don't really think I will use the ostinatos and basic combinations too much, because I feel I can do that myself with normal scoring. But to have sixteen instruments all balanced and orchestrated sensibly is a great time saver if you have a preset "score" that suits what you need.


----------



## borisb2

Dave Connor said:


> The Slurred have a slower transition between notes (adjustable with the velocity of the notes.) Bow Change is a faster transition with more of an attack between notes. So it depends on how much you want to hear the connected notes articulated. The Marcato Slurred have a much more pronounced attack on each note. All three are highly usable and tend to give you what you need at any given time. As far as legatos are concerned.


Old post.. sorry

"...adjustable with the velocity of the notes..."
Was this related to the new violins or HWS in general?


----------



## Dave Connor

borisb2 said:


> Old post.. sorry
> 
> "...adjustable with the velocity of the notes..."
> Was this related to the new violins or HWS in general?


Hollywood Strings + Brass - Diamond (Woodwinds too no doubt) share the feature of legato transition speed being adjustable by velocity. Higher = Faster. On PLAY.

I don’t know if the new player provides additional or different controls for that.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Dave Connor said:


> Hollywood Strings + Brass - Diamond (Woodwinds too no doubt) share the feature of legato transition speed being adjustable by velocity. Higher = Faster. On PLAY.
> 
> I don’t know if the new player provides additional or different controls for that.


Opus behaves in the same way.


----------



## Markrs




----------



## ALittleNightMusic

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Opus behaves in the same way.


I should add that there is a legato time parameter, but I didn't notice it made a difference when using the velocity-controlled patches for some reason. Will need to try again.


----------



## cqd

Was anyone else watching that new video going 'how much bloody ram does he have?..'


----------



## SlHarder

cqd said:


> Was anyone else watching that new video going 'how much bloody ram does he have?..'


I have GoldX and I have "don't preload" turned on and 32gb ram. And I'm very happy with multiple instances of Orchestrator. 

For anyone who is a hobbyist like me I think Gold is definitely the sweet spot for Opus. I can easily live with 2 mics and 16bit samples.


----------



## szczaw

ThomasS said:


> I did as little work as I possibly could.


An excellent notion ! No CCs, no cowbell, no nothing.

View attachment OP6.mp3


Here's an observation: you'll get more mileage out of presets by splitting sections.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

SlHarder said:


> For anyone who is a hobbyist like me I think Gold is definitely the sweet spot for Opus. I can easily live with 2 mics and 16bit samples.


Not just hobbyists, many pro’s use Gold as well (I did for years). The average listener doesn’t know the difference anyways.


----------



## ennbr

Question does Orchestrator allow you to select any instrument patch that EW makes or is it restricted to just the core Hollywood Orchestrator patches


----------



## SlHarder

ennbr said:


> is it restricted to just the core Hollywood Orchestrator patches


You get a subset of the HO Opus patches, a lot of times it is loading the master keyswitch patch and then just exposing some of the articulations. Orchestrator does a pretty good job of curating effective patches for you.


----------



## SlHarder

Jeremy Spencer said:


> The average listener doesn’t know the difference anyways.


Certainly true for me and the half dozen friends who are the only folks who ever listen to my music.


----------



## ennbr

SlHarder said:


> You get a subset of the HO Opus patches, a lot of times it is loading the master keyswitch patch and then just exposing some of the articulations. Orchestrator does a pretty good job of curating effective patches for you.


I own the HOOPUS but don't have any other EastWest products so I'm asking if I were to buy the Choirs for example is that usable in Orchestrator


----------



## SlHarder

ennbr said:


> if I were to buy the Choirs for example is that usable in Orchestrator


Not "in Orchestrator", but it can be very effective to combine what Orchestrator creates with another instance of any standalone vi, Opus, Play, VSL, Spitfire, etc ...

The vid linked earlier today has instances of Orchestrator and Opus together. Just substitute any vi ...


----------



## ennbr

Thanks for the conformation maybe in future they'll add an Other instrument group to Orchestrator. I'm very much aware how I can use other patches and libs with Orchestrator.


----------



## ThomasS

szczaw said:


> An excellent notion ! No CCs, no cowbell, no nothing.
> 
> View attachment OP6.mp3
> 
> 
> Here's an observation: you'll get more mileage out of presets by splitting sections.


Sounds great, but it needs more cowbell.


----------



## Geomir

For all EWHO Opus users, I have a very simple question. When using the new Opus "Library Browser", can you arrange the order that your EW libraries appear in the left column, i.e. by dragging and dropping (like Kontakt Player), or they are locked by alphabetical order, like in Play 6?


----------



## ned3000

You can drag to change the order.


----------



## Geomir

ned3000 said:


> You can drag to change the order.


Thank you for letting me know.


----------



## szczaw

I would find it useful to have arp 'patterns' (is there Opus nomenclature for this?), stored and accessible separately from performances.


----------



## WillMah Gold

I'm a little confused again.
If I want to use the OPUS Edition, do I have to have all of the Diamond instruments on the hard disk, or is it enough if I ONLY download the OPUS Edition if I don't have the Diamond instruments on the hard disk yet?
I ask because it takes ages for me to download and unzip the stuff and I don't want to download more than necessary.


----------



## cqd

szczaw said:


> I would find it useful to have arp 'patterns' (is there Opus nomenclature for this?), stored and accessible separately from performances.


That would be handy..
Although, how would you name them?..In fairness, it isn't very hard to actually enter them, and you can copy between them..


----------



## dzilizzi

WillMah Gold said:


> I'm a little confused again.
> If I want to use the OPUS Edition, do I have to have all of the Diamond instruments on the hard disk, or is it enough if I ONLY download the OPUS Edition if I don't have the Diamond instruments on the hard disk yet?
> I ask because it takes ages for me to download and unzip the stuff and I don't want to download more than necessary.


You would need to download it all if you want to use the mic positions. I am assuming you have the Gold version? I would guess the orchestrator works with the Gold version, since it is an option to buy. If you don't have the solo instruments, you may want to download them as well.

If you have no instruments, then yes, you have to download them all. Opus is like Play. It is only the engine.


----------



## cqd

I think the Opus version just added the new instruments..


----------



## dzilizzi

cqd said:


> I think the Opus version just added the new instruments..


I think you are right, but it isn't enough to do much or use the orchestrator.


----------



## fduncan

Hello all,

I have subscribed to the CCx and installed the 7 Opus libraries in the same SSD. The total size is 198GB which is weird since I read that CCx is more than 240GB. 

The problem is that a lot of samples are missing and I have to download them. It happens especially with the brass and woodwinds libraries. Is it normal ? There is nothing else to download in the EW installation center. I searched the forum for an answer but to no avail .Thank you.


----------



## Nuno

I have Opus installed since it came out. It was running fine until recently. It started to ask for missing samples, the same especially brass and woodwinds.


----------



## WillMah Gold

I was a CCX subscriber and was under the impression that you have to upgrade to Plus if you want to use OPUS and Orchestrator at all. So I did that, although the GoldX instruments have always been completely sufficient for me until now. Now I read everywhere that you can also use the new versions with Gold / X, that annoys me because I deleted the Gold versions (since they no longer worked anyway, since I had booked the upgrade) and now I have to Download a TB of things in order to even be able to start again for the first time. It's really annoying. Maybe my fault, but couldn't that have been communicated more clearly? I'm just annoyed why I had the impression that I HAVE to upgrade to be able to use the new things at all.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Nuno said:


> I have Opus installed since it came out. It was running fine until recently. It started to ask for missing samples, the same especially brass and woodwinds.


Same here. I've gone back to Play until this gets sorted.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

WillMah Gold said:


> I was a CCX subscriber and was under the impression that you have to upgrade to Plus if you want to use OPUS and Orchestrator at all. So I did that, although the GoldX instruments have always been completely sufficient for me until now. Now I read everywhere that you can also use the new versions with Gold / X, that annoys me because I deleted the Gold versions (since they no longer worked anyway, since I had booked the upgrade) and now I have to Download a TB of things in order to even be able to start again for the first time. It's really annoying. Maybe my fault, but couldn't that have been communicated more clearly? I'm just annoyed why I had the impression that I HAVE to upgrade to be able to use the new things at all.


You could probably just explain this to EW support and go back to CCX. You have full access to Opus and Orchestrator, with the same mic's as the Gold versions.


----------



## WillMah Gold

Jeremy Spencer said:


> You could probably just explain this to EW support and go back to CCX. You have full access to Opus and Orchestrator, with the same mic's as the Gold versions.


Thank you for the confirmation. 
I will most likely do that.


----------



## szczaw

cqd said:


> That would be handy..
> Although, how would you name them?..In fairness, it isn't very hard to actually enter them, and you can copy between them..


I'd name them descriptively (monophonic, polyphonic, fast, slow, narrow, broad, etc.) and add a counter: mono slow 01. Edit: if you have time on your hands, 0001


----------



## EgM

Nuno said:


> I have Opus installed since it came out. It was running fine until recently. It started to ask for missing samples, the same especially brass and woodwinds.


Same here :( Tuba I noticed


----------



## EgM

EgM said:


> Same here :( Tuba I noticed


Regarding the missing samples in orchestrator:

I've downloaded a few missing samples from the cloud icon, but for me it's *always* been samples from the Tuba Sus Lite patch and nothing else yet. Happens on many score presets.

All my EW software is up to date, CCX sub with EWHO Gold/Diamond perpetual licences.

@wkundrus hope this is helpful to the team


----------



## SlHarder

EgM said:


> *always* been samples from the Tuba Sus Lite patch


I contacted support and they gave a zip of replacement Solo Tuba sample directory that fixed that problem. I'm assuming it will show up in an update but you can contact them ...


----------



## EgM

SlHarder said:


> I contacted support and they gave a zip of replacement Solo Tuba sample directory that fixed that problem. I'm assuming it will show up in an update but you can contact them ...


Good good! I can wait, but I'm glad they're aware about it 

Thanks for letting me know!


----------



## Simon Ravn

I have had a few little issues getting to download all the right content for Opus. But EW support have been amazing and quick about adressing this and helping me out and now everything seems to be in place!

Thankfully I don't NEED Opus right now, seeing there are still some problems with performance with this first version of Opus, so I can wait until they get everything sorted out!


----------



## wkundrus

WillMah Gold said:


> I was a CCX subscriber ...


Please contact the EastWest support. You can chat with them on soundsonline.com. They will try to help you.


----------



## wkundrus

EgM said:


> Regarding the missing samples in orchestrator:
> 
> I've downloaded a few missing samples from the cloud icon, but for me it's *always* been samples from the Tuba Sus Lite patch and nothing else yet. Happens on many score presets.


This issue has been fixed. Try an instrument update for brass.


----------



## Allen Constantine

Hi @wkundrus,

Is this still being addressed as you said in the next maintenance update?


Taken from @SymphonicSamples

"I found after testing many things recently the performance issues of the Opus engine is directly related to what your audio interface buffer size in use is set to. The larger the buffer size setting is set to the greater the drop notes/poor timing becomes and issues dramatically increases in direct relation to that setting. This is easily tested by just loading a percussion combo kit in opus when in standalone and not inside your Daw, playing 2 snares quickly. Change your audio interfaces buffer settings and it become quickly evident and shockingly bad at larger buffer settings. This naturally doesn't effect Play 6 or Kontakt in such a simple test as it shouldn't given a larger buffer normally would only add latency but still play all notes correctly. Clearly the Opus engine is super sensitive to the buffer sizes in it's current build. This naturally becomes an issue if you have a large project with a lot of instances of Opus running when you use small buffer sizes. At least it may help some users out knowing this who have experienced similar problems during playback. Hope to see some optimization in an update soon."


----------



## ThomasS

AllenConstantine said:


> "I found after testing many things recently the performance issues of the Opus engine is directly related to what your audio interface buffer size in use is set to. The larger the buffer size setting is set to the greater the drop notes/poor timing becomes and issues dramatically increases in direct relation to that setting. This is easily tested by just loading a percussion combo kit in opus when in standalone and not inside your Daw, playing 2 snares quickly. Change your audio interfaces buffer settings and it become quickly evident and shockingly bad at larger buffer settings. This naturally doesn't effect Play 6 or Kontakt in such a simple test as it shouldn't given a larger buffer normally would only add latency but still play all notes correctly. Clearly the Opus engine is super sensitive to the buffer sizes in it's current build. This naturally becomes an issue if you have a large project with a lot of instances of Opus running when you use small buffer sizes. At least it may help some users out knowing this who have experienced similar problems during playback. Hope to see some optimization in an update soon."


I have been experimenting with things like buffer size to see how to stop Opus and The Orchestrator from skipping and dropping notes. I wonder if it is just an Opus issue, or also related to the audio interface and how it handles buffers and also the computer audio system and the file loading setup.

INTERFACE: I tried two different interface (M-Audio & Focusrite) and they behave differently with various buffer sizes. The M-Audio is stable only at 256 or higher and skips terribly below that, whereas the Focusrite can go down to 128 and still play fine. The M-Audio has the ability to set a lower latency (64) so I sometimes switch to that when I want a super-fast playing response (muting other tracks if necessary) and then switch back.

SYSTEM SETTINGS: I was having problems with Orchestrator not being able to handle fast notes, using Cubase 11 in Windows 10. I had already excluded the top-level folder of Opus in my secruity settings to avoid it checking each file as it loads, as this is recommended. Windows documentation says that if you exclude the parent folder it works on the subfolders, but on a hunch I went ahead and excluded the sample folders (several levels deeper) and also excluded all files with the extension .ews. This fixed all of my probelems with the Orchestrator skipping in Cubase, without changing the interface or buffer size.

MIDI & the DAW: I cannot replicate Allen Constantine's problem, but I wonder if it is only when _playing _(in his example) or if he records the midi will it _playback _correctly? In this case, it might have something to do with the DAW and how it handles recording midi versus playing it back. Of course if there's no problem with the same DAW in Play or Kontakt then there is still something different about Opus (at least in live playing).


----------



## Allen Constantine

ThomasS said:


> I have been experimenting with things like buffer size to see how to stop Opus and The Orchestrator from skipping and dropping notes. I wonder if it is just an Opus issue, or also related to the audio interface and how it handles buffers and also the computer audio system and the file loading setup.
> 
> INTERFACE: I tried two different interface (M-Audio & Focusrite) and they behave differently with various buffer sizes. The M-Audio is stable only at 256 or higher and skips terribly below that, whereas the Focusrite can go down to 128 and still play fine. The M-Audio has the ability to set a lower latency (64) so I sometimes switch to that when I want a super-fast playing response (muting other tracks if necessary) and then switch back.
> 
> SYSTEM SETTINGS: I was having problems with Orchestrator not being able to handle fast notes, using Cubase 11 in Windows 10. I had already excluded the top-level folder of Opus in my secruity settings to avoid it checking each file as it loads, as this is recommended. Windows documentation says that if you exclude the parent folder it works on the subfolders, but on a hunch I went ahead and excluded the sample folders (several levels deeper) and also excluded all files with the extension .ews. This fixed all of my probelems with the Orchestrator skipping in Cubase, without changing the interface or buffer size.
> 
> MIDI & the DAW: I cannot replicate Allen Constantine's problem, but I wonder if it is only when _playing _(in his example) or if he records the midi will it _playback _correctly? In this case, it might have something to do with the DAW and how it handles recording midi versus playing it back. Of course if there's no problem with the same DAW in Play or Kontakt then there is still something different about Opus (at least in live playing).


Good to know! But it still needs to be fixed in an update! No other sampler does this issue!


----------



## WillMah Gold

wkundrus said:


> Please contact the EastWest support. You can chat with them on soundsonline.com. They will try to help you.


yeah, I did today. I asked to go back to the Gold / X variant.
(I was under the impression that you have to upgrade to Plus if you want to use OPUS and Orchestrator at all and I didn't know that my Gold license would stop to work with the higher paid path.)
Answer is no. They say I probably read that wrong when I signed up for the Plus subscription for a year. English is not my mother tongue, so it can be.
No matter. I'll just wait for the rest of my subscription time and then cancel my EW subscriptions completely. Probably a good opportunity to try out Spitfire or Cinesamples, there are enough competitors on the market.


----------



## ThomasS

Today I followed through the new East West Orchestrator instruction video and copied exactly what he did, to recreate the same process. I was pretty successful, but it took me a lot longer than the 14-minute video.

As I did it, I became quite impressed with how precise his playing was. Everything perfect in the first take. If you watch the midi editor you can see that every note is perfectly quantized, both start and end, yet it is presented as if he is recording it live. He is playing chords with one hand and jumping to distant chords, yet the end of every chord and the start of the next have no gaps. I assumed he had an automatic quantize-while-recording setting, because it is impossible to actually play like that otherwise. He also must have had some other part of his anatomy hitting the record button, as the clips were precisely trimmed as they were recorded.

But (at 10:04) I saw him using both hands to play chords while the mod-wheel magically fades without him touching it! Right then I realized that in the video he is finger-syncing, pretending to play live, but the midi is obviously coming from another source than his keyboard. This is an Ashlee Simpson-Milli Vanilli instruction video.

There’s nothing wrong, I guess, because the information is great and it would be boring to show every step in recording and refining the tracks. Yet don’t you think it’s a little dishonest to pretend as if this was done live, because potential buyers might think they can do it too?

And it would actually be more helpful to show how they really made the tracks so perfect, how to refine the midi information, program the mod-wheel, get the mix perfect, etc. The production of the video was very slick, almost too good, and I wish they would spend less time making a few high-end productions once every few months and release simpler but more detailed real-world walkthroughs.


----------



## cqd

In fairness..I'd say it's pretty much understood (or well, it should be), that for the orchestrator to play a piece perfectly you'd want the start and end of notes properly quantized?..

You can probably set input quantize to do it..


----------



## newbreednet

ThomasS said:


> Yet don’t you think it’s a little dishonest to pretend as if this was done live, because potential buyers might think they can do it too?


Hmm, yes and no  

Like you, I was a bit taken aback at how perfect the performances were. And yet, stepping back from it a bit and seeing the bigger picture, a "warts and all"-style demo is just not how EW roll. They want to present the library/orchestrator in it's best possible light. Reminds me of how Apple got rapped on the knuckles for showing the phones in it's adverts being a bit too _responsive_, shall we say, and then they had to add little disclaimers saying "sequences shortened", or something to that effect. 

I guess EW reckon that once more people get their hands on Opus, more granular walkthroughs will be produced by the community-at-large. And they took *their* opportunity to demo it in a very polished way.

I'm quite glad to hear that you could replicate it yourself, though. I am planning to do that too.


----------



## cqd

I dunno..the orchestrator seems like it's easier to get sounding good playing live like than anything else of the like I've come across..the sound with him playing is pretty much how it comes out..


----------



## ThomasS

3DC said:


> I have 2 separate 1TB and some additional space on primary C drive. Any suggestions or tips hot to install Opus on my system for best efficiency?


I would not put any samples on the primary C drive. It might slow everything down and perhaps affect your windows performance and virtual RAM. As for the two 1TB drives, the whole Opus Diamond doesn't quite fit on a single terrabyte drive (which actually holds 931 gb) so you can put most on one of the drives and it is no problem to have a bit on different drives. However, if the other two are SSD drives, you might want to read the article at https://pureinfotech.com/why-solid-state-drive-ssd-performance-slows-down/ which says the more you fill up the drive the slower it gets, so splittig Opus equally between the two drives might be faster (provided you don't put too much else on them) but in any case the article recommends that you never fill an ssd more than 70% of its capacity to keep the speed high.


----------



## newbreednet

3DC said:


> I have 2 separate 1TB and some additional space on primary C drive. Any suggestions or tips hot to install Opus on my system for best efficiency?


I had the same thoughts and asked EW support about it. They suggested splitting it across two drives, so I put strings and percussion on one drive, brass and winds on the other. 

Filling to 100% on sample drives is no problem.


----------



## dzilizzi

ThomasS said:


> I would not put any samples on the primary C drive. It might slow everything down and perhaps affect your windows performance and virtual RAM. As for the two 1TB drives, the whole Opus Diamond doesn't quite fit on a single terrabyte drive (which actually holds 931 gb) so you can put most on one of the drives and it is no problem to have a bit on different drives. However, if the other two are SSD drives, you might want to read the article at https://pureinfotech.com/why-solid-state-drive-ssd-performance-slows-down/ which says the more you fill up the drive the slower it gets, so splittig Opus equally between the two drives might be faster (provided you don't put too much else on them) but in any case the article recommends that you never fill an ssd more than 70% of its capacity to keep the speed high.


I'm not sure that is true for sample drives. Sample drives, once written, are read only. Most of these 70% recommendations are for drives that are regularly written/read/deleted/updated. The 70% allows for damaged sectors that happen during multiple rewrites. I've been told you can pretty much fill a sample only SSD without degrading the speed. I wouldn't do it with a working drive though.


----------



## wsimpson

Huge thread and didn't get a hit searching. Are any of you having issues with notes getting stuck on? Like a sustain that won't go away? I am updated to the latest version, just wondering if there is a MIDI panic button or somethign to stop that.


----------



## SlHarder

wsimpson said:


> if there is a MIDI panic button or somethign to stop that.


I get stuck notes occasionally, loading a different preset clears them, but hoping it gets fixed.


----------



## wsimpson

SlHarder said:


> I get stuck notes occasionally, loading a different preset clears them, but hoping it gets fixed.


I get stuck notes all the time and it is unusable. I have opened a support incident with EastWest. I will report back what I hear from them.


----------



## Allen Constantine

Installation Center 1.4.3 available!






How to Get Started with EastWest Libraries, Plugins & More


EastWest's Getting Started guides teach you the basics of ComposerCloud, how to use the Sound Data Hard Drives, EastWest Libraries, VST plugins & more.




www.soundsonline.com


----------



## nonchai

I have a Composer cloud licence and have downloaded the EQ HollyWood OPUS Orch libraries and Orchestrator in Opus. But... for some reason all the Bb notes are missing! - certain scores and ostinatos etc expect me to download more samples which I do but across many presets I find that no Bb works! just silence!


----------



## Robert_G

nonchai said:


> for some reason all the Bb notes are missing!


Stop complaining. Bb notes are overrated. Now if you said the Db was missing......then you should be concerned.


----------



## nonchai

Robert_G said:


> Stop complaining. Bb notes are overrated. Now if you said the Db was missing......then you should be concerned.


LOL

Yeah fair point well made.


----------



## PuerAzaelis

Could someone explain the purge function to me. Is that the equivalent of freezing tracks?


----------



## Mackieguy

In case I missed this in the last 327 pages:

Confirmed with EastWest Support today for VePro, OPUS only has 1 license. So if you have a couple of VePro servers (ie putting brass on a separate server from your strings), you'll need a full license for each server. Which blows. $1600 to be able to split between a couple of systems with no content overlap? Really? Completely derailed my purchase plans. 

I'll be staying with HSO despite it's crappy PLAYer. :(


----------



## José Herring

Mackieguy said:


> In case I missed this in the last 327 pages:
> 
> Confirmed with EastWest Support today for VePro, OPUS only has 1 license. So if you have a couple of VePro servers (ie putting brass on a separate server from your strings), you'll need a full license for each server. Which blows. $1600 to be able to split between a couple of systems with no content overlap? Really? Completely derailed my purchase plans.
> 
> I'll be staying with HSO despite it's crappy PLAYer. :(


Wow. I think they need to rethink that policy.


----------



## Evans

Mackieguy said:


> In case I missed this in the last 327 pages:
> 
> Confirmed with EastWest Support today for VePro, OPUS only has 1 license. So if you have a couple of VePro servers (ie putting brass on a separate server from your strings), you'll need a full license for each server. Which blows. $1600 to be able to split between a couple of systems with no content overlap? Really? Completely derailed my purchase plans.
> 
> I'll be staying with HSO despite it's crappy PLAYer. :(


Yeah, I goofed and didn't realize this before picking up Opus.

I changed some things around and now have it all on one PC, but my prior setup with EWHO did have it split across two machines. I think it's incredibly poor taste on EW's part. 

When I bought EWHO Diamond, it was one SKU, yet I got a license per section. Opus should have been the same.


----------



## Lewis Emblack

PuerAzaelis said:


> Could someone explain the purge function to me. Is that the equivalent of freezing tracks?


It frees up your ram, but then when you play notes it repopulates only what is required. If you select "Never Preload" in the options, everything loads purged, so you can essentially build an entire template without the ram hit. It all depends on your system specs, but if you have you libraries on an SSD then I'd recommend it.


----------



## SlHarder

Try fiddling around in Orchestrator using pivot or pedal notes. You’ll get some different flavors.


----------



## Olang

Is it just me, or are all of the Mutes on the 6 French Horns waaaaay too quiet?


----------



## PuerAzaelis

Lewis Emblack said:


> It frees up your ram, but then when you play notes it repopulates only what is required. If you select "Never Preload" in the options, everything loads purged, so you can essentially build an entire template without the ram hit. It all depends on your system specs, but if you have you libraries on an SSD then I'd recommend it.


Thanks I am really loving this feature it is like a magic button that saves RAM.


----------



## José Herring

Olang said:


> Is it just me, or are all of the Mutes on the 6 French Horns waaaaay too quiet?


It's always been this way even in the Play version. I think that it's pretty accurate.


----------



## dsharpie

Product Support 7.2.5 and Opus Software 1.0.3 are now available in the Installation Center. The East West Support page now shows this for OPUS 1.0.3:

EastWest OPUS 1.0.3​*What's fixed and added in OPUS Software Update 1.0.3?*


Support for Sound Variations in Studio One 5.2 and higher
Import of KS articulations into Expression Maps in Cubase/ Nuendo
Export of articulation maps for Logic Pro
Product Installer 7.2.5 (mac) installs articulation sets for Logic Pro (Opus Edition instruments only)
Velocity Sensitivity curve fixed
Skipped notes in HW Percussions fixed


----------



## Nimrod7

dsharpie said:


> Product Support 7.2.5 and Opus Software 1.0.3 are now available in the Installation Center. The East West Support page now shows this for OPUS 1.0.3:


I was hopping for that to eliminate the orchestrator crashes. 

No joy.

Well, back to waiting...


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

How does this work?

Import of KS articulations into Expression Maps in Cubase/ Nuendo
Export of articulation maps for Logic Pro


----------



## dsharpie

ALittleNightMusic said:


> How does this work?
> 
> Import of KS articulations into Expression Maps in Cubase/ Nuendo
> Export of articulation maps for Logic Pro


In the Articulations Tab, click the three-dot menu at top right and there is an option for Exporting articulation maps for Logic. No idea how to import KS articulations into Cubase expression maps.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Studio One 5.3 updated Sound Variation and now automatically import Opus articulations like VSL Syncron. But more importantly for me, Sound Variation now support midi channel which will finally enable me to build my key switchs in Play. So now i have no reason to upgrade to Opus. At least not at this price just so i can build my own keyswitch instruments.


----------



## newbreednet

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Does anybody know how to make the StacSl Leg BC + Slur + Port MAX patch behave like the Leg Slur patch? I'm using the KS patch so I can't add the Leg Slur + Port patch in which I would prefer. The Leg Slur transitions sound very smooth (like slurs) while the StacSl Leg BC + Slur + Port MAX patch always seems to sound like very sharp accents on each note. I've set velocity to > 60 and CC14 to < 50 and the notes are overlapping, which I believe is supposed to trigger the legato slur.


Hey @ALittleNightMusic I might have stumbled across an answer to this while reading the (new?) Opus manual http://media.soundsonline.com/manuals/EW-Opus-Software-Manual.pdf

I haven't tried it yet (not at my music machine right now) but it seems that you can load up all the articulations you want and then assign keyswitches to these, essentially creating your own personal KS Master patch.

from Page 79 of the manual:

5.2.2 Trigger Options
Create multi-articulation instruments by using Trigger Options, including keyswitches, and controllers (like the Mod Wheel) to select (“trigger”) instruments. For example, creating an accent when playing at higher velocities by loading Violin Sustain and Staccato instruments, then limiting the Velocity Range of the Staccato instrument between velocities 110-127.
Keyswitch
This Trigger Option uses designated MIDI note numbers outside the playable range of notes to select (“trigger”) articulations. Assigned Keyswitches are colored Blue, and when they’re active, the ACTIVE ARTICULATION INDICATOR will light up green. _*For example, if you load multiple articulations of a Violin, like Staccato on the Bow, Staccato, Spiccato (shown below), and assign each of them to a keyswitch on a unique MIDI note number, they will only playback when their respective keyswitch is active.*_


----------



## ned3000

dsharpie said:


> Product Support 7.2.5 and Opus Software 1.0.3 are now available in the Installation Center. The East West Support page now shows this for OPUS 1.0.3:
> 
> EastWest OPUS 1.0.3​*What's fixed and added in OPUS Software Update 1.0.3?*
> 
> 
> Support for Sound Variations in Studio One 5.2 and higher
> Import of KS articulations into Expression Maps in Cubase/ Nuendo
> Export of articulation maps for Logic Pro
> Product Installer 7.2.5 (mac) installs articulation sets for Logic Pro (Opus Edition instruments only)
> Velocity Sensitivity curve fixed
> Skipped notes in HW Percussions fixed


Still getting double RAM usage when loading the same instrument twice. Am I the only one who thinks this is a problem? Haven't really seen anybody else griping about it.


----------



## dsharpie

Several OPUS instrument updates available in the Installation Center now. They download and install very quickly.


----------



## tmarko

I'm getting a fail on the brass close (gold) update. All others went without a problem. Me or them?


----------



## Foxcall

tmarko said:


> I'm getting a fail on the brass close (gold) update. All others went without a problem. Me or them?


Same thing happened to me last night when I'd tried updating the close brass.


----------



## SupremeFist

Within the next 6 months or so, upgrade BBCSO Core to Pro or upgrade HOD to HOOPUS?


----------



## rnb_2

tmarko said:


> I'm getting a fail on the brass close (gold) update. All others went without a problem. Me or them?


Same here - I tried the "Download and Reinstall" option under the gear menu, and it disappeared from the update list. I just did the same on Gold Brass Close in my Installed Libraries, and the progress bar flashed briefly, but nothing changes. Since I have everything installed on two computers here, I might try an uninstall/reinstall on one to see what happens, since I can just copy it back from the other machine if it doesn't work.


----------



## dsharpie

rnb_2 said:


> Same here - I tried the "Download and Reinstall" option under the gear menu, and it disappeared from the update list. I just did the same on Gold Brass Close in my Installed Libraries, and the progress bar flashed briefly, but nothing changes. Since I have everything installed on two computers here, I might try an uninstall/reinstall on one to see what happens, since I can just copy it back from the other machine if it doesn't work.


Are you sure nothing changed? As I said when I posted about the instrument updates, they download and install very quickly. I checked the sample folders and found that none of the samples downloaded, but just a few individual instrument files were updated like "EW Hollywood Strings Opus Edition.ewu", .ewui, .ewus, Product.res, ProductInfo.ew, etc. Plus all .oib files in the Opus Instruments folders seem to be updated. So I think it's mostly programming related updates that install very quickly without having to reinstall the samples.


----------



## szczaw

SupremeFist said:


> Within the next 6 months or so, upgrade BBCSO Core to Pro or upgrade HOD to HOOPUS?


HO is more deeply sampled(more dynamic layers), BBC more deeply recorded (more mics). HO brighter, more hyped cinematic sound, BBC is yer grandmother's sound. SF player is also rather basic and much more resource hungry.


----------



## tmarko

Just tried again and it worked fine. Don't know what the problem was


----------



## rnb_2

dsharpie said:


> Are you sure nothing changed? As I said when I posted about the instrument updates, they download and install very quickly. I checked the sample folders and found that none of the samples downloaded, but just a few individual instrument files were updated like "EW Hollywood Strings Opus Edition.ewu", .ewui, .ewus, Product.res, ProductInfo.ew, etc. So I think it's mostly programming related updates that install very quickly without having to reinstall the samples.


When I clicked the Brass Gold Close update, the progress bar would flash very quickly, but then it would stay in the Updates section of Installation Center (all other updates would disappear from that section after installation). I tried several times, but kept getting the same result. However, after doing the "Download and Reinstall", it immediately vanished from Updates, but since the installed instruments are all the way at the bottom of IC, I wasn't able to see how long the download took, if it did happen.

That said, the EWU, EWUI, and EWUS files are now dated today (the Product.res and ProductInfo.ew files are different, but older than what is on my other machine, like the samples, just because of when I installed them). I'd already opened a ticket with support (very responsive, as everyone has pointed out), so I've asked them if those three files are the only changes.


----------



## dsharpie

You might want to check out the Opus instrument folders to see if the .oib files got updated. Here is an example from HW Strings Opus Edition:


----------



## rnb_2

EW support got back to me - there was a problem with the Gold Brass Close file, but it has been fixed. I forced an Update Instrument via the Installation Center, and that got things properly sorted. There are several other updates throughout the Brass folder.


----------



## Trash Panda

SupremeFist said:


> Within the next 6 months or so, upgrade BBCSO Core to Pro or upgrade HOD to HOOPUS?


Which one do you like the sound of our working with more between BBCSO Core or HOD?


----------



## Jay Panikkar

It's difficult to track exactly what has been fixed since release.

The major issues with OPUS for me presently:
- Saving a project takes 20 seconds (tested in Cubase 11)
- Duplicate articulation samples being loaded
- Takes more RAM than it shows in the display (likely related to duplicate samples being loaded)

Apart from that, I don't remember running into any performance issues since recent updates. Several minor visual bugs remain, and they seems to occur at random.

One gripe with the UI is the on-screen keyboard. The keyboard baked into the instrument UI don't display CCs, so I have to keep the additional on-screen keyboard open underneath it, which takes up unnecessary space and looks stupid. Here's what's it looks like in 4K: https://www.dropbox.com/s/w93xukqdkq2j4wm/screenshot_cubase_opus.png.


----------



## nonchai

Has there been any mention of EW adding Native Instruments NKS support for Komplete Kontrol to Orchestrator and OPUS?

Its crying out for that really.


----------



## jonathanwright

Just diving into Opus for the first time today.

Apologies if this has already been covered somewhere in the thread, but how do I install the Opus version of my existing libraries?

I'm a CCX subscriber, but don't have the option to install Opus version of my existing Gold libraries, like HW Brass and Strings. I do have the option of downloading the close mics in Opus format, but I don't need those, and don't have the drive space.

According to the manual I should have the option of downloading the Opus version of HO, is that the case?

For example, here are my options for Percussion.






UPDATE: I've discovered I can download the Opus version of each instrument individually from within Opus and it will work, but clearly this isn't the way it's meant to be done?


----------



## SlHarder

jonathanwright said:


> Just diving into Opus for the first time today.


Contact EW support. They have been providing quick, excellent and detailed help. The July4 holiday might cause a slight delay.


----------



## jonathanwright

SlHarder said:


> Contact EW support. They have been providing quick, excellent and detailed help. The July4 holiday might cause a slight delay.


Will do, cheers.


----------



## szczaw

I would find it helpful to be able to adjust the volume of each articulation. Without this, I see no way of rebalancing KS masters.


----------



## TRON 1.0

szczaw said:


> I would find it helpful to be able to adjust the volume of each articulation. Without this, I see no way of rebalancing KS masters.


Hell yeah. I ran into this thing today when I decided to tweak OPUS on my obsolete MBP 2012.


----------



## Jay Panikkar

szczaw said:


> I would find it helpful to be able to adjust the volume of each articulation. Without this, I see no way of rebalancing KS masters.





TRON 1.0 said:


> Hell yeah. I ran into this thing today when I decided to tweak OPUS on my obsolete MBP 2012.


Such controls already exist in OPUS. PLAY has had them for a long time too.

KS patches have an articulation tab inside the instrument UI where you can adjust volume levels for every articulation in that patch.


----------



## cqd

Jay Panikkar said:


> Such controls already exist in OPUS. PLAY has had them for a long time too.


To the lad that was asking what was the point of the articulation section on that page the other day..
I think we've found it..
Nice one..


----------



## Jay Panikkar

cqd said:


> To the lad that was asking what was the point of the articulation section on that page the other day..
> I think we've found it..
> Nice one..


The UI is inconsistent between OPUS and the instrument patch itself. The "Articulations" tab in the OPUS navigation bar provides on/off controls and lets you select keyswitches, but it doesn't have the volume controls found inside the instrument patch.


----------



## TRON 1.0

I found another issue. My CME Xkey 37 can't get along with OPUS. All notes sound intermittent. Big Roland piano works smooth though. Maybe the problem is in polyphonic aftertouch?


----------



## dcoscina

SupremeFist said:


> Within the next 6 months or so, upgrade BBCSO Core to Pro or upgrade HOD to HOOPUS?


Good question. I got CC to try out OPUS. After some initial difficulties, I actually really like this library. It would be a hard decision between this and BBCSO but since I have both ostensibly, I don't have to choose. The added integration with OPUS and Studio One is extra tasty. and lots of updates on OPUS seem to be coming in so props to East West. For concert and more classical writing, BBCSO. If you are primarily doing film scoring or media scoring, I'd go with OPUS.


----------



## AndyP

After installing the last update I had hoped that the 3 flutes legato patches between A5 and C6 were fixed. Unfortunately, they are still broken for me.


----------



## AndyP

Deleted


----------



## PuerAzaelis

So here's my latest. It uses one of the Orchestrator presets and a couple of the ostinatos. I haven't ventured into creating my own presets yet but I can see the possibilities. Hopefully this shows how fun the presets can be for a beginner like me. Eternal Padawan here, so be nice.


----------



## Foxcall

After playing around with the performance mode in the orchestrator, it seems like one limitation for creating a custom ostinato template is that you're limited to one particular articulation as you're writing the pattern. It would be nice to be able to create a pattern that I could save, for instance, that features a 16th note arpeggio of a chord played staccatissimo, but ends on a marcato-triggered quarter note.


----------



## szczaw

Foxcall said:


> After playing around with the performance mode in the orchestrator, it seems like one limitation for creating a custom ostinato template is that you're limited to one particular articulation as you're writing the pattern. It would be nice to be able to create a pattern that I could save, for instance, that features a 16th note arpeggio of a chord played staccatissimo, but ends on a marcato-triggered quarter note.


That would kick ass.


----------



## kingy10kingy

dsharpie said:


> Several OPUS instrument updates available in the Installation Center now. They download and install very quickly.


Where can I find release notes for these updates? EW support have been useless and ignoring my emails.


----------



## dsharpie

Foxcall said:


> After playing around with the performance mode in the orchestrator, it seems like one limitation for creating a custom ostinato template is that you're limited to one particular articulation as you're writing the pattern. It would be nice to be able to create a pattern that I could save, for instance, that features a 16th note arpeggio of a chord played staccatissimo, but ends on a marcato-triggered quarter note.


That would be a nice feature. Meanwhile, could you load up two orchestrator instances in the same OPUS instance (responding to the same MIDI input) and program the staccatissimo arpeggio pattern in one and the marcato quarter note pattern in the other? Not very elegant, but it would get you the same effect from playing the same chords.


----------



## Foxcall

dsharpie said:


> That would be a nice feature. Meanwhile, could you load up two orchestrator instances in the same OPUS instance (responding to the same MIDI input) and program the staccatissimo arpeggio pattern in one and the marcato quarter note pattern in the other? Not very elegant, but it would get you the same effect from playing the same chords.


Thanks, that's pretty much what I thought I'd try next, just have two separate orchestrators loaded up, and time the marcato notes where I wanted them to play in the sequence. I suppose so far, the only VST that looks similar to what I had in mind might be Action Strings 2, in terms of putting together an ostinato with varying articulations that can be triggered with just a triad, or other sustained note.


----------



## cqd

Can you put two orchestrators in the one instance?..

You could just use two and route midi anyway, but didn't think you could put two in the one Opus..


----------



## Foxcall

cqd said:


> Can you put two orchestrators in the one instance?..
> 
> You could just use two and route midi anyway, but didn't think you could put two in the one Opus..


I wasn't sure that you could or not, but that sounds like the most likely method. Just trying to think if it'd justify any extra work versus simply placing them into the piano roll after the fact. I was hoping it might streamline workflow, but I'll see if it winds up being six and on half dozen the other.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Anybody know of an OPUS Logic template with articulation maps setup floating around out there?


----------



## dsharpie

cqd said:


> Can you put two orchestrators in the one instance?..
> 
> You could just use two and route midi anyway, but didn't think you could put two in the one Opus..


I just checked, and you're correct... only 1 Orchestrator per OPUS instance.


----------



## Rtomproductions

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Anybody know of an OPUS Logic template with articulation maps setup floating around out there?


Can't say for sure, but the articulation sets for all the regular KS patches are automatically installed with the new update. It's made my life 1000x easier.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Rtomproductions said:


> Can't say for sure, but the articulation sets for all the regular KS patches are automatically installed with the new update. It's made my life 1000x easier.


As in EW provided them? My issue with the KS patches is they only have a subset of the articulations enabled by default so then you have to still go through every instrument and setup the other ones - and then build your articulation map. Wonder if that’s now changed.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

jonathanwright said:


> Just diving into Opus for the first time today.
> 
> Apologies if this has already been covered somewhere in the thread, but how do I install the Opus version of my existing libraries?
> 
> I'm a CCX subscriber, but don't have the option to install Opus version of my existing Gold libraries, like HW Brass and Strings. I do have the option of downloading the close mics in Opus format, but I don't need those, and don't have the drive space.
> 
> According to the manual I should have the option of downloading the Opus version of HO, is that the case?
> 
> For example, here are my options for Percussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: I've discovered I can download the Opus version of each instrument individually from within Opus and it will work, but clearly this isn't the way it's meant to be done?


Had the same issue, I couldn‘t manage to download it, only the close in the installation center, and the main only from inside the OPUS player.

There was an update recently that fixed it for me. I mailed support and they said it‘s all in one download (i.e. the close mic). Actually it should be named close/mid/main, but it’s only close for me, too. Therefore, the information in the manual isn‘t correct.

When I clicked on the close mic (OPUS), it installed every of the gold versions, including PLAY. As they share the same sample content (except the expansion) it doesn’t matter, but you have the instruments doubled. Don‘t know if this is still a bug, I don’t need the PLAY versions; nevertheless it‘s working now.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

ALittleNightMusic said:


> As in EW provided them? My issue with the KS patches is they only have a subset of the articulations enabled by default so then you have to still go through every instrument and setup the other ones - and then build your articulation map. Wonder if that’s now changed.


So EW _did_ automatically install a bunch of articulation maps for Logic in the latest update, which is nice. Unfortunately, as I feared, the maps are incomplete and only map the subset of articulations that are turned on by default in the KS patch. The maps do include things like "Tremolo" for the strings, but that articulation has no output added, so you have to first turn on that articulation in the Opus patch, map it to a keyswitch, and then add that to the output in the map. Quite tedious given how many articulations are not enabled by default in the KS patches.


----------



## dsharpie

ALittleNightMusic said:


> So EW _did_ automatically install a bunch of articulation maps for Logic in the latest update, which is nice. Unfortunately, as I feared, the maps are incomplete and only map the subset of articulations that are turned on by default in the KS patch. The maps do include things like "Tremolo" for the strings, but that articulation has no output added, so you have to first turn on that articulation in the Opus patch, map it to a keyswitch, and then add that to the output in the map. Quite tedious given how many articulations are not enabled by default in the KS patches.


If you turn on some more articulations in the KS patch, what happens with this button: In the Articulations Tab, click the three-dot menu at top right and there is an option for Exporting articulation maps for Logic. (I don’t use Logic, so cannot test it myself.)


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

dsharpie said:


> If you turn on some more articulations in the KS patch, what happens with this button: In the Articulations Tab, click the three-dot menu at top right and there is an option for Exporting articulation maps for Logic. (I don’t use Logic, so cannot test it myself.)


Ah I imagine that works but I would prefer not having to go through every instrument activating all articulations, assigning keyswitches, exporting the new map, loading that into Logic, etc.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Looks like OPUS VST3 works great with the automatic Sound Variation syncing in Studio One - and you don't need to setup the keyswitches in OPUS either, just turn on the articulation and everything is synced. Think I'll make an OPUS template in S1 instead then!


----------



## PuerAzaelis

Opus Orchestrator question here - the mixer view shows tabs for each instrument in the orchestration, i.e. violins, violas, cellos. Usually there are reverbs added into each instrument's mix. Is there a way to delete all those reverbs at once, to result in a totally dry orchestration, rather than go into each instrument one at a time and delete each reverb channel ...


----------



## AndyP

PuerAzaelis said:


> Opus Orchestrator question here - the mixer view shows tabs for each instrument in the orchestration, i.e. violins, violas, cellos. Usually there are reverbs added into each instrument's mix. Is there a way to delete all those reverbs at once, to result in a totally dry orchestration, rather than go into each instrument one at a time and delete each reverb channel ...


In the settings of OPUS you can switch off the effects by default. Then every patch will be loaded without enabled effects.


----------



## PuerAzaelis

AndyP said:


> In the settings of OPUS you can switch off the effects by default. Then every patch will be loaded without enabled effects.


Oh TY i did not see that


----------



## Lewis Emblack

New OPUS Engine Walkthrough is out.


----------



## AndyP

A question for all OPUS users. Since the last update, all legato patches are suddenly polyphonic playable. Is this now only with me, or has anyone else been able to determine this? Normally I use cc22 for this, but when I use the switch on my controller, it has no effect.


----------



## alcorey

Opus arpeggiator won't function in Logic, but works fine in stand-alone version?
Anyone come across this issue or know what to do to get it to function?


----------



## Saxer

alcorey said:


> Opus arpeggiator won't function in Logic, but works fine in stand-alone version?
> Anyone come across this issue or know what to do to get it to function?


I think Logic must play to get the arpeggiator running.


----------



## alcorey

Saxer said:


> I think Logic must play to get the arpeggiator running.


Thanks for that quick response Saxer - yes it works then - although I do find that to be a rather odd requirement


----------



## Christoph18

I am still only thinking about upgrading to opus or buying a subscription. My biggest concern is the workflow regarding the track delays. I asked support about this, but they didn't really answer my question. Is it possible now to see the track delays needed for each track to quantize properly? Because of the Orchestrator they must have figured out the track delays. Otherwise, the Orchestrator would sound bad. 
Does anyone have any information regarding this?
Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your attention.


----------



## ookami

Christoph18 said:


> I am still only thinking about upgrading to opus or buying a subscription. My biggest concern is the workflow regarding the track delays. I asked support about this, but they didn't really answer my question. Is it possible now to see the track delays needed for each track to quantize properly? Because of the Orchestrator they must have figured out the track delays. Otherwise, the Orchestrator would sound bad.
> Does anyone have any information regarding this?
> Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your attention.


Hi Christoph,
I have to say I am Super Happy with OPUS, 
I checked out the Orchestrator in the beginning,
and it does not sound bad at all, I am pretty sure they 
did solve the different Track Delays internaly, 
as it sounds awesome.

Anyways I am working with the KS Master Patches which 
I tweaked for our own liking, 

all in all OPUS is sounding extremely good, and I can recommend it 
definetly : )


----------



## Christoph18

ookami said:


> Hi Christoph,
> I have to say I am Super Happy with OPUS,
> I checked out the Orchestrator in the beginning,
> and it does not sound bad at all, I am pretty sure they
> did solve the different Track Delays internaly,
> as it sounds awesome.
> 
> Anyways I am working with the KS Master Patches which
> I tweaked for our own liking,
> 
> all in all OPUS is sounding extremely good, and I can recommend it
> definetly : )


Thank you very much! Is it also possible to quantize legato patches? So, did they somehow make the delay for legato instruments easier to work with? This would be a huge development.


----------



## djburton

I have been in dialog with East West support for several weeks now about an issue with HOOPUS strings.

I've pretty thoroughly tested all keyswitch instruments, but this problem specifically appears confined to Divisi Basses and Divisi 1st Violins. It first appeared when I called up the custom Art Conductor instruments, which make all associated articulations available for a particular KS set, but it also shows up in the "factory" instruments.

What happens is that when the Pizzicato articulation is turned on in either of the Basses Divisi instruments, Opus pulls up the "resource locator" window shown below.






At first, I hit the cloud icon and the "downloading . . . " message in the window would appear momentarily, and on closing, the articulation would play correctly (I had to assign a keyswitch). It turns out, however, that none of the listed sample files exist, either in the folders specified or, so far as I can rtell, anywhere else. It also turns out the the correct sample files for the pizzicato articulation seem to load regardless of this message window, since I can hear the pizzicato articulation just fine once I've gone through the hassle of closing out the resource locator window.

Michael at East West (he and Lorenz have been attentive) determined that the Basses Divisi instrument file is "broken" and as of last Wednesday this is now in the hands of the developers. No cure yet.
I'm posting here because, after painstakingly reviewing this thread, I have not seen this specific problem mentioned, and wonder whether anyone has run across it, or whether, if you happen to call up Basses Divisi and turn on Pizzicato, the same thing might happen. Note that this occurs as well in the 1st Violins Divisi for the "WT Run Up Dn MOD" articulation. Otherwise, Opus has been behaving just fine, and I'm rather warming up to it.

I'll post here if this gets solved. Just hope the upgrade price remains in place prior to that.


----------



## PaulieDC

JonSolo said:


> You pay a $25 fee to move a license from one account to the other. On two or more transfers it is $50 per transaction. Edited for correctness, heh.
> 
> There are exceptions and permissions required with some licenses.
> 
> Jon


If I want to transfer a license, let's say Ravenscroft R275 piano library to someone else, who pays the $25 iLok fee? Me or the new owner?

Sorry, I'm replying to a post in this thread from 6 months ago!


----------



## alcorey

PaulieDC said:


> If I want to transfer a license, let's say Ravenscroft R275 piano library to someone else, who pays the $25 iLok fee? Me or the new owner?
> 
> Sorry, I'm replying to a post in this thread from 6 months ago!


I've seen it both ways on VI-C but mostly the seller pays it and includes it in the cost because they have to initiate the transfer with the vendor. Kinda like the Ebay syndrome where "free Shipping" helps immensely with a completed sale.


----------



## PaulieDC

alcorey said:


> I've seen it both ways on VI-C but mostly the seller pays it and includes it in the cost because they have to initiate the transfer with the vendor. Kinda like the Ebay syndrome where "free Shipping" helps immensely with a completed sale.


Actually, that’s what I meant, who does iLok hit the bill with, and it sounds like the seller which is what I want. If I transfer I’d like to take care of the fee. I pretty much do free shipping on eBay all the time..

Thanks!


----------



## SlHarder




----------



## szczaw

A bunch of Opus / HO and EW mockups: https://www.youtube.com/user/mauromarcozzi/videos


----------



## YaniDee

Please clarify something for me..EW is currently having a sale which includes the Opus player for free.. I want to get Symphonic Orchestra, but can that even be opened in Opus? Is the only library "Opus Ready" Hollywood Orchestra, or can it be used in by any library, instead of the Play engine..


----------



## Wabashprof

YaniDee said:


> Please clarify something for me..EW is currently having a sale which includes the Opus player for free.. I want to get Symphonic Orchestra, but can that even be opened in Opus? Is the only library "Opus Ready" Hollywood Orchestra, or can it be used in by any library, instead of the Play engine..


Yes, you can certainly use Symphonic Orchestra in Opus. Many other EW libraries too. So far, I've not run into any that don't work in Opus ... but I don't go much beyond orchestral stuff.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

Wabashprof said:


> Yes, you can certainly use Symphonic Orchestra in Opus. Many other EW libraries too. So far, I've not run into any that don't work in Opus ... but I don't go much beyond orchestral stuff.


New to this thread.

Will my old Hollywood Diamond work in the Opus Player

Current upgrade sale price is $495 for Diamond

Does it get better than that during BF for example?

Everyone liking Opus over the old library?

Sorry for the lazy questions.


----------



## ennbr

I updated my Diamond when Opus came out so Player sees Diamond but Opus only sees the upgraded Opus version. So in short as far as I can tell if you install Opus it will not see your Hollywood Diamond. I could be wrong


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Zoot_Rollo said:


> Will my old Hollywood Diamond work in the Opus Player


Unfortunately, no.


----------



## cqd

Zoot_Rollo said:


> New to this thread.
> 
> Will my old Hollywood Diamond work in the Opus Player
> 
> Current upgrade sale price is $495 for Diamond
> 
> Does it get better than that during BF for example?
> 
> Everyone liking Opus over the old library?
> 
> Sorry for lazy questions.


Welcome..

No..

Probably not..

Yeah..I honestly do think it was worth the upgrade..I've had a few purchases where I was left feeling it was a waste of money..This was not one of them..


----------



## YaniDee

Wabashprof said:


> Yes, you can certainly use Symphonic Orchestra in Opus. Many other EW libraries too. So far, I've not run into any that don't work in Opus ... but I don't go much beyond orchestral stuff.


Thanks for replying..but I'm not getting that impression from any other sources..As I mentioned, EW is currently giving Opus away with purchase of their libraries, but I see no info regarding it working with any lib other than HW Orchestra Opus edition.


----------



## Soundbed

YaniDee said:


> Thanks for replying..but I'm not getting that impression from any other sources..As I mentioned, EW is currently giving Opus away with purchase of their libraries, but I see no info regarding it working with any lib other than HW Orchestra Opus edition.


Why would they give away a player that doesn’t work with the library you just bought? (Edited.)


----------



## khollister

I have used Opus with Ra, Silk, Stormdrum 3, etc.


----------



## YaniDee

Soundbed said:


> Why would they give away a player that doesn’t work with the library you just bought?


For future lib updates maybe.. Anyhow, I found this on the support page Faq:

Is the original Hollywood Orchestra and Solo Instruments compatible with Opus?​No, only Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition is compatible with the new Opus software. Providing support for old and new versions of Hollywood Orchestra in the Opus software would create confusion and require us to support two versions of the same product in the same software. Original Hollywood Orchestra users that do not upgrade will continue to use the Play software.* All other products except the MIDI Guitar Series are supported in Opus as only the interfaces have been updated to retina resolution in these products.*

(The bold text was put in by me) In reading this, however, it doesn't seem that Opus gives a great advantage over Play for "older" libs, as it implies only a cosmetic change (I don't even have a retina screen..)


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

YaniDee said:


> For future lib updates maybe.. Anyhow, I found this on the support page Faq:
> 
> Is the original Hollywood Orchestra and Solo Instruments compatible with Opus?​No, only Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition is compatible with the new Opus software. Providing support for old and new versions of Hollywood Orchestra in the Opus software would create confusion and require us to support two versions of the same product in the same software. Original Hollywood Orchestra users that do not upgrade will continue to use the Play software.* All other products except the MIDI Guitar Series are supported in Opus as only the interfaces have been updated to retina resolution in these products.*
> 
> (The bold text was put in by me) In reading this, however, it doesn't seem that Opus gives a great advantage over Play for "older" libs, as it implies only a cosmetic change (I don't even have a retina screen..)




hoping for more responses, is the upgrade from HW Diamond to HO Opus worth the $495?


----------



## Soundbed

YaniDee said:


> For future lib updates maybe.. Anyhow, I found this on the support page Faq:
> 
> Is the original Hollywood Orchestra and Solo Instruments compatible with Opus?​No, only Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition is compatible with the new Opus software. Providing support for old and new versions of Hollywood Orchestra in the Opus software would create confusion and require us to support two versions of the same product in the same software. Original Hollywood Orchestra users that do not upgrade will continue to use the Play software.* All other products except the MIDI Guitar Series are supported in Opus as only the interfaces have been updated to retina resolution in these products.*
> 
> (The bold text was put in by me) In reading this, however, it doesn't seem that Opus gives a great advantage over Play for "older" libs, as it implies only a cosmetic change (I don't even have a retina screen..)


That’s been that way for months. I think they need to update their FAQ. 



Zoot_Rollo said:


> hoping for more responses, is the upgrade from HW Diamond to HO Opus worth the $495?








Opus engine for all the OTHER EW products?


It’s probably been answered elsewhere but I cannot find the answer. What are the advantages of using the Opus engine for other EW/QL products, such as ... Gypsy. I didn’t find the answer on EW website either. I own several EW products and may buy more (not necessarily Opus). But I can’t quite...




vi-control.net


----------



## dzilizzi

Zoot_Rollo said:


> hoping for more responses, is the upgrade from HW Diamond to HO Opus worth the $495?


If you like the Orchestrator, yes. Otherwise, probably not. 

It is new, so it won't hit the 60% off sales for at least a year. You also get the solo instruments with the upgrade.


----------



## Soundbed

dzilizzi said:


> If you like the Orchestrator, yes. Otherwise, probably not.
> 
> It is new, so it won't hit the 60% off sales for at least a year. You also get the solo instruments with the upgrade.


There are lots of opinions on the thread I linked above. Some people think it’s absolutely worth it. Opinions vary.


----------



## dzilizzi

Soundbed said:


> There are lots of opinions on the thread I linked above. Some people think it’s absolutely worth it. Opinions vary.


Well, for $495, I'm not sure the upgrade is worth it if you have no use for the Orchestrator. At 50% or 60%, I might have a different opinion. I did buy it. I love the orchestrator. So it was worth it for me. But that is my opinion, I guess.


----------



## Evans

Zoot_Rollo said:


> hoping for more responses, is the upgrade from HW Diamond to HO Opus worth the $495?


"Worth it" would entirely depend on the specific problems you have with EWHO itself. If you state those, I think people could provide opinions on if they think Opus rectifies them.

If, for example, your problem is the confusing patch structure of EWHO, yes, Opus _sort of_ resolves that. The official videos should show you that, though, without needing forum opinion.

If, for example, your problem lies within the bad takes that have stuck in EWHO all these years, then Opus doesn't solve for that except for where it offers new recordings (such as the violins and trumpets alternatives).

So, what's your take on EWHO?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

Evans said:


> "Worth it" would entirely depend on the specific problems you have with EWHO itself. If you state those, I think people could provide opinions on if they think Opus rectifies them.
> 
> If, for example, your problem is the confusing patch structure of EWHO, yes, Opus _sort of_ resolves that. The official videos should show you that, though, without needing forum opinion.
> 
> If, for example, your problem lies within the bad takes that have stuck in EWHO all these years, then Opus doesn't solve for that except for where it offers new recordings (such as the violins and trumpets alternatives).
> 
> So, what's your take on EWHO?


both of the examples you described.

and a deeper look at the available videos is a wise suggestion.

thanks.


----------



## Soundbed

Opus has features Play doesn’t. Patch auditioning is one of them. Purge is improved apparently. Key switches are now customizable.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

dzilizzi said:


> Well, for $495, I'm not sure the upgrade is worth it if you have no use for the Orchestrator. At 50% or 60%, I might have a different opinion. I did buy it. I love the orchestrator. So it was worth it for me. But that is my opinion, I guess.


I have no use for the orchestrator and it was absolutely worth it. $100 was certainly not going to make it more or less worth it for me give it is already discounted to 50% of the retail price. It makes HOD finally useable for me.


----------



## Fleer

I’m in. And I love that Orchestrator for instant inspiration. Kudos to EastWest for turning an established, encompassing library into something even better and definitely more exciting.


----------



## cqd

Fleer said:


> I’m in. And I love that Orchestrator for instant inspiration. Kudos to EastWest for turning an established, encompassing library into something even better and definitely more exciting.


Yeah, for the likes of quick backgrounds and (saveable) textures and the like orchestrator is great..I almost feel like they undersold it focusing on the presets and the 'sound like superman ' aspect of it..for rolling your own it's powerful..


----------



## szczaw

Divisimate is $200. You get that and more with Opus.


----------



## Evans

cqd said:


> Yeah, for the likes of quick backgrounds and (saveable) textures and the like orchestrator is great..I almost feel like they undersold it focusing on the presets and the 'sound like superman ' aspect of it..for rolling your own it's powerful..


Yes, once I started thinking about it like the textural "Stories" from Lumina, the Orchestrator made a lot more sense to me.


----------



## cqd

szczaw said:


> Divisimate is $200. You get that and more with Opus.


Ah..Good.. up until I saw this there was always a possibility I'd pick up divisimate at some stage..


----------



## Dex

szczaw said:


> Divisimate is $200. You get that and more with Opus.


Divisimate is also _wildly _overpriced for what it does. 

Much like Opus, IMO.

Sorry, I'll bow out of this thread again.


----------



## Easy Pickens

dsharpie said:


> If you turn on some more articulations in the KS patch, what happens with this button: In the Articulations Tab, click the three-dot menu at top right and there is an option for Exporting articulation maps for Logic. (I don’t use Logic, so cannot test it myself.)


Thanks; I never saw nor heard of that feature until you pointed it out. And for the record, it works like a charm, whether you use keyswitches, program changes, or CC. 

Now it's going to be even harder to choose between KS patches and Zones.


----------



## dragonetti

Is that just my library issue or new 2 Trumpets EXP and 2 Trombones EXP are much louder than the rest of instruments?


----------



## Christoph18

dragonetti said:


> Is that just my library issue or new 2 Trumpets EXP and 2 Trombones EXP are much louder than the rest of instruments?


I think so too. I turned them down quite a bit.


----------



## dragonetti

This whole Opus Edition library needs a lot of tweaking...
For example: please load 2TPx Stac DblTng RRx8, play C3 or B2 at 100 Velocity level and listen what you got in the background.... I've found many issues like that on the other instrument patches which without EQ fixing are totally useless.

Next thing is you can't use every separate orch. section on separate computer (like Comp1 Strings, Comp2 Brass etc.) because of iLok. You get one license for the entire Opus Edition library...

Actually I regret I've bought it.


----------



## Fleer

My thoughts are quite the opposite. Hollywood Orchestra (Diamond and Gold) were just lying around here, mostly unused, until HOOPUS. I’m feeling I’ve got a whole new orchestra and love alternating with BBCSO Pro and Unify. For me, HOOPUS and BBCSO Pro nicely fulfill my orchestration needs.


----------



## Evans

dragonetti said:


> Next thing is you can't use every separate orch. section on separate computer (like Comp1 Strings, Comp2 Brass etc.) because of iLok. You get one license for the entire Opus Edition library..


Yeah, given how this works for EWHO, this is utter bullshit for Opus (especially, as an upgrade purchase) and changed my opinion of EastWest from just being dumb or incompetent sometimes to being outright cancer.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Fleer said:


> My thoughts are quite the opposite. Hollywood Orchestra (Diamond and Gold) were just lying around here, mostly unused, until HOOPUS. I’m feeling I’ve got a whole new orchestra and love alternating with BBCSO Pro and Unify. For me, HOOPUS and BBCSO Pro nicely fulfill my orchestration needs.


Same.


----------



## SlHarder




----------



## CatComposer

Can anyone here please explain how to get two patches to play the same midi in a single OPUS? (without using Orchestrator).
I drag and drop the second instrument to the left column, but no midi is played from it.

I watched the walkthrough and they say to change the preferences>midi to Omni.
But that had no effect 😒😢
I'm still getting no sound from the second instrument.
And yes, I restarted Opus and yes, the midi is in the correct range.


----------



## ennbr

But are they both on the same midi channel


----------



## CatComposer

ennbr said:


> But are they both on the same midi channel


Nailed it!


----------



## SlHarder

Sseltenrych said:


> Nailed it!


There is a setting where you can choose to have Opus open instruments on Midi Omni instead of incrementing midi channels.


----------



## sundrowned

I'm getting pops and clicks with ensemble patches at 256 buffer. 512 running fine. Bit annoying because I like to run at 256. Anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## KEM

robgb said:


> To each his own. To my mind, Kanye West is part of what's wrong with music today.



This might be the absolute worst statement I’ve ever heard in my entire life but alright…


----------



## CatComposer

Does anyone know if you can add a script to Opus for microtonality, like you can do in Kontakt?


----------



## handz

Hi guys, I am not lurking here as much as I used to and I totally missed this release, this is all new material or does it contain HO+New material? I am interested in this Opus thing as Play is absolutely unusable garbage (loading times..) But the update price is a bit high... hmmm


----------



## Petrucci

handz said:


> Hi guys, I am not lurking here as much as I used to and I totally missed this release, this is all new material or does it contain HO+New material? I am interested in this Opus thing as Play is absolutely unusable garbage (loading times..) But the update price is a bit high... hmmm



It's previous Reworked HO content + some New samples + New Player (Opus)


----------



## handz

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> About loading times, did you exclude your Play sample folders from your Antivirus software? Otherwise loading times in Play are slowed down.


I am on Mac and don't really use any special antivirus, I have SSD and still, the loading is insane pain compared to Kontakt...


----------



## Question-Guy

I just updated. The price is too high... But since I still use Hollywood Orchestra as my main and only orchestral library, it make sense to do in a better player with better performance so I decided to update...

The new 18 violins are really nice, much cleaner tone. I haven't used them in a context, but I wonder how they fit in. They offer much less articulation then the original first violins and no divisi, so they cannot replace the old ones. How are they supposed to be used? Matching the new 18 with the old 2nd? Using both, old 1st and 2nd and 18th for single melody lines?

Same with new woodwinds and brass, less articulation then the original counterparts. The solo trombone has a legato patch. The two new trombones have non. Why?!

I need some advice:

Can you change the order of the library in the Opus list view? Drag & drop dont work. Make editing some plist files? 

How can I remove old libraries? I have deleted some, but still see them greyed out.

I don't like the KS patches because of the order of the articulations. When I export them into the Logic articulation set I cannot change the order there either. Babylonwaves offers a artiulcaztion pack for EW and many others in a big package for 80$. But I wonder if I can do it by myself. I could do them all by scratch, but this would take time... I only need to change the order so I have all longs and legatos first, then shorts, then plucked and then FX...


----------



## SlHarder

Question-Guy said:


> I only need to change the order so I have all lo


I would contact Babylonwaves. They have an order of artics that they try to maintain across different publishers' libraries. You may or may not like the order they use for HO.


----------



## Question-Guy

SlHarder said:


> I would contact Babylonwaves. They have an order of artics that they try to maintain across different publishers' libraries. You may or may not like the order they use for HO.


Thanks! Yes I did. I asked for a screenshot or list from their particular setup. This will decide if I buy them or built them myself.


----------



## Johnny

handz said:


> Hi guys, I am not lurking here as much as I used to and I totally missed this release, this is all new material or does it contain HO+New material? I am interested in this Opus thing as Play is absolutely unusable garbage (loading times..) But the update price is a bit high... hmmm


When you say high? I am just curious, and in no disrespect, (I promise I come in peace  )
just that a large percentage of us users here like myself, probably paid: $1499.99 for Hollywood Strings, $1499.99 for Hollywood Brass and most likely $1499.99 for Hollywood woodwinds and so on... I was just looking at my HD the other day and past EW bills, so when I hear that $19.99 a month is expensive? I sometimes reflect back to the times that once were and what it was before, if anything? Hopefully this just helps new users gain perspective


----------



## Question-Guy

East West do sales for their products several times a year. Valentines Day, Labor Day, 4th of July, Black Friday. So there is no reason to ever buy a product full price from them. Yes if you bought them back at the release day you paid the full price of over thousands...

I got the full Hollywood Orchestra for 700€ 2016 I think in a sale. The upgrade price to Opus is 499$ for users of HWO. And you get the Orchestrstor, the Opus and a couple of new instruments (with less articulations, but one additional mic). So the price is damn high for the update.

19,99 is just for the Gold Edition, so just one Mic and the library only shines in the diamond edition because with close mics mixed it, its get snappier and cello/basses and stuff sounds much more powerful with close mics in. Composer Cloud with Diamond is 49,99$ oder 59,99 a month, now this are already the prices you have to pay for the Adobe Suite...

I bought from East West:
Solo Violin, Spaces, Voices of Passion, Hollywood Orchestra Diamond, Opus Dimond, Hollywood Choirs Dimond, Symphonic Choirs Dimond, Pianos Platinum. All on sale never payed full prices.

All others libraries I use with the Composer Cloud X EDU. Once I'm no student anymore I have to think how to proceed with this... But since I own all libraries with multiple mics, I can switch to the lowest Composer Cloud tier and keep on using the others stuff. I used Silk and RA in a video game soundtrack recently. So there is always something nice to find.


----------



## Question-Guy

Can someone send me the articulation sets for Logic Pro? The installer of East West does NOT install them in my folders. If someone can zip them and send them to me I would really appreciate that.


----------



## Kent

Question-Guy said:


> Can someone send me the articulation sets for Logic Pro? The installer of East West does NOT install them in my folders. If someone can zip them and send them to me I would really appreciate that.


I didn’t realize EW supplied Articulation Sets! Neat.


----------



## Johnny

Sseltenrych said:


> Hi Johnny,
> I also bought EWSO Silver back in that era, and regret it now (I tried using it for about a week, then gave up!)
> However we have to remember that at the time, there just weren't all the other options available now.
> There has been an explosion of sample libraries that will probably continue.
> Were you able to make some nice music with those libraries?
> 
> EW got in early and reaped massive rewards already from customers like you and me.
> If they want to stay competitive, they need to keep upgrading their libraries.
> Opus was a great improvement, but now many of the libraries are lagging behind the competition.
> 
> I think the EW Composer Cloud is great value (and I'm currently in my first month).
> 
> But now I'm thinking of switching to Presonus Sphere, because it's half the price ($14.95 a month), plus it will upgrade my Studio One to Professional (which has great features), AND gives me composing software (Notion) which would speed up my workflow.
> Sure, the libraries aren't as extensive, but the woodwinds sound excellent!
> 
> I would love it if EW updated the Celtic vocal library.
> The scripting and samples are very old and that makes them unusable, but they should be capable of making a new, updated version.
> Better legato scripting could be integrated into many of the libraries, especially the older vocal ones and make them shine.
> 
> There must be many other ways their libraries could be updated, and surely they have the resources to do it?
> The Hollywood Orchestra is the newest orchestral library they have, right?
> But it was released 4 years ago...
> See how many products 8dio and Spitfire have released in that time! 🎶😊


Yeah the pirate days absolutely! We were all on a ship, hands tied, swords to our backs, with only two options: Don't write music with samples? Or buy the ridiculously inflated and overpriced products from the few vendors in the industry at the time... I completely agree! I think my only driving point is/was, all vendors were stupid overpriced back then for better or for worse... I paid equally close to the same for 8Dio products at the time... So when I see or hear people upset at prices being too high at $50 or less? I remind myself of those silly times of me buying Adagio Violins at $699.99 and Basses and Cellos at $399.99 each etc... And to me that was normal and paramount to writing music at the time, I look back now and think? That is so many months of eating better food, owning higher quality clothing and paying down a mortgage faster. If only I started writing music at the price points we have today.


----------



## ChristianM

Johnny said:


> Yeah the pirate days absolutely! We were all on a ship, hands tied, swords to our backs, with only two options: Don't write music with samples? Or buy the ridiculously inflated and overpriced products from the few vendors in the industry at the time... I completely agree! I think my only driving point is/was, all vendors were stupid overpriced back then for better or for worse... I paid equally close to the same for 8Dio products at the time... So when I see or hear people upset at prices being too high at $50 or less? I remind myself of those silly times of me buying Adagio Violins at $699.99 and Basses and Cellos at $399.99 each etc... And to me that was normal and paramount to writing music at the time, I look back now and think? That is so many months of eating better food, owning higher quality clothing and paying down a mortgage faster. If only I started writing music at the price points we have today.


Vienna is always with expansive price


----------



## Johnny

ChristianM said:


> Vienna is always with expansive price


Yes!!!! They are... Hahahaha, and OT! Never comes down... Just as much for me to fly to Berlin and record woodwinds


----------



## CatComposer

Johnny said:


> Yes!!!! They are... Hahahaha, and OT! Never comes down... Just as much for me to fly to Berlin and record woodwinds


If you are a billionaire you could buy the Spitfire complete bundle:








Spitfire Audio — Everything


Our recording history, your scoring future



www.spitfireaudio.com




It's only $16719 (normal price is $25553)

It's most likely because they can drop Hans Zimmer's name... 😁


----------



## Evans

Sseltenrych said:


> If you are a billionaire you could buy the Spitfire complete bundle:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio — Everything
> 
> 
> Our recording history, your scoring future
> 
> 
> 
> www.spitfireaudio.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's only $16719 (normal price is $25553)
> 
> It's most likely because they can drop Hans Zimmer's name... 😁


Is $17k for "Everything" really that much compared to the investment needed for other professions?

Yes, it's money that most people don't have saved up, but for what you get (and what you can do with it) it's not much compared to alternative careers (or even many hobbies). And that's for a MASSIVE bundle. It's not exactly needed in order for someone to get rolling on some major projects.

In contrast, I know a guy who installs garage doors for a living. You can bet that his truck alone ran him far more than that Spitfire bundle. It wasn't exactly money that he had lying around, but he found a way to make it happen and through hard work is pulling himself up into another income class.

And yes, ability to do this varies based on many social, economic, and geographic circumstances. But I'm still surprised that these libraries are so "cheap" compared to other tools of other trades.


----------



## ennbr

Evans said:


> Is $17k for "Everything" really that much compared to the investment needed for other professions?


Yes 17k it is an excessive price given that sample libs are only needed to provide a mockup of a score a good representation of the final product. In the end it will most likely be recorded by a real Orchestra or in some cases a mixture.


----------



## Evans

ennbr said:


> Yes 17k it is an excessive price given that sample libs are only needed to provide a mockup of a score a good representation of the final product. In the end it will most likely be recorded by a real Orchestra or in some cases a mixture.


If that's someone's situation (cash strapped and planning to record live), I wouldn't think they'd go for the Everything bundle.


----------



## Johnny

Sseltenrych said:


> If you are a billionaire you could buy the Spitfire complete bundle:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio — Everything
> 
> 
> Our recording history, your scoring future
> 
> 
> 
> www.spitfireaudio.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's only $16719 (normal price is $25553)
> 
> It's most likely because they can drop Hans Zimmer's name... 😁


Awwww man... I was just about to drop Nicolas Cage Banjos on everyone, I didn't know Spitfire was already doing this...


----------



## Rtomproductions

ennbr said:


> Yes 17k it is an excessive price given that sample libs are only needed to provide a mockup of a score a good representation of the final product. In the end it will most likely be recorded by a real Orchestra or in some cases a mixture.


You might be surprised how much of a "mixture" it actually is in some cases lol. I know there's alot of Hollywood Orchestra/CC instruments (among others) in some big budget films out there...


----------



## alcorey

Rtomproductions said:


> You might be surprised how much of a "mixture" it actually is in some cases lol. I know there's alot of Hollywood Orchestra/CC instruments (among others) in some big budget films out there...


OOOOOOOOOH...... Do tell


----------



## Markrs

Opus Diamond has now on sale with 40% off. So can now be purchased for $595 (*$499.80* with the code: Group)






JRRshop.com | EastWest Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition Diamond


EastWest Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition Diamond




www.jrrshop.com


----------



## Markrs

Just checked the East West website and the upgrade is on sale for $295






Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest


Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.




www.soundsonline.com


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

That‘s crazy. Bad news for early buyers! :( 

Have they changed it, because, if I remember correctly, you could choose gold or diamond? Now there‘s only one version (diamond?) on their website.


----------



## Markrs

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> That‘s crazy. Bad news for early buyers! :(
> 
> Have they changed it, because, if I remember correctly, you could choose gold or diamond? Now there‘s only one version (diamond?) on their website.


Diamond is the only option when it comes to upgrades as well


----------



## Jdiggity1

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Have they changed it, because, if I remember correctly, you could choose gold or diamond? Now there‘s only one version (diamond?) on their website.


True to form, you can buy Gold from https://www.jrrshop.com/eastwest-hollywood-orchestra-opus-edition-gold (JRR shop) for $100 more than the Diamond bundle.
But yes it does seem like they are phasing it out as a standalone purchase. Gold will likely continue as an option for Composer Cloud subscribers?


----------



## Markrs

Jdiggity1 said:


> True to form, you can buy Gold from https://www.jrrshop.com/eastwest-hollywood-orchestra-opus-edition-gold (JRR shop) for $100 more than the Diamond bundle


Other stores (audiodeluxe) including EastWest seem to be no longer selling Opus Gold. On the EastWest website you can upgrade from Opus Gold to Opus Diamond for $99


----------



## Iosonopie

Silver to Diamond?


----------



## Bman70

So which version is still a Pre-Order? (Bottom of screenshot)


----------



## Markrs

Iosonopie said:


> Silver to Diamond?


That seems odd given you can't upgrade Gold to Opus Diamond


----------



## alcorey

Markrs said:


> Just checked the East West website and the upgrade is on sale for $295
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soundsonline.com


I've written 3 responses to this and erased them before posting them because I told myself to "stay out of it"..... but I cannot hold my feelings back. East/West... this is how you reward your loyal patrons for supporting you by buying in to the upgrade for $500 at launch? ..... With a slap in the face and a $200 reward for those who didn't support you initially.... AFTER ONLY 4 MONTHS on the market?..................Pathetic


----------



## Bman70

alcorey said:


> I've written 3 responses to this and erased them before posting them because I told myself to "stay out of it"..... but I cannot hold my feelings back. East/West... this is how you reward your loyal patrons for supporting you by buying in to the upgrade for $500 at launch? ..... With a slap in the face and a $200 reward for those who didn't support you.... AFTER ONLY 4 MONTHS on the market?..................Pathetic


At least you didn't buy Gold, which was quite pricey at the time, just to become a non-desirable customer quietly swept under the rug. Vanished.


----------



## alcorey

Bman70 said:


> At least you didn't buy Gold, which was quite pricey at the time, just to become a non-desirable customer quietly swept under the rug. Vanished.


I didn't buy Diamond either - I took a 1 year prepaid Diamond CC subscription.
But my heart aches for those who struggled to make that decision back then to upgrade (I have followed this thread from day 1) and paid that $500 - they should ALL receive some sort of consolation.......maybe let each one of those loyalists pick an E/W library they currently don't own (priced at $200 or under) for free. That actually wouldn't really cost E/W 1 penny and would build back customer satisfaction..........Are you listening E/W?


----------



## szczaw

alcorey said:


> I didn't buy Diamond either - I took a 1 year prepaid Diamond CC subscription.
> But my heart aches for those who struggled to make that decision back then to upgrade (I have followed this thread from day 1) and paid that $500


It's not a collectable item. If you bought it initially, and got to use it for four months, then the investment was worth it.


----------



## alcorey

szczaw said:


> It's not a collectable item. If you bought it initially, and got to use it for four months, then the investment was worth it.


Sorry.....???????????? Do not understand your post


----------



## Tremendouz

I'm sure someone has mentioned it before in this thread but 335 pages... Anyway, did they improve the legatos in Opus edition? I have the old HO diamond but the legato transitions feel somehow sterile and too fast compared to something like Cinematic Studio series that has more "lyrical" legatos

I'm considering the upgrade to finally get a proper purge function plus keyswitching but I'm on the fence about the legato


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Tremendouz said:


> I have the old HO diamond but the legato transitions feel somehow sterile and too fast compared to something like Cinematic Studio series that has more "lyrical" legatos


HOD has very slow legatos in the slur+port directory


----------



## janila

I’m contemplating upgrading to Opus but I’m not eager to rebuild my template at the moment. I’m also not convinced the price is right as I see real value only in the new player and wouldn’t even download the solos. Not sure about the Orchestrator. The new samples and improvements in the old I see as a bonus.

Do you think this is as good a deal as it gets or do you think there will be a bigger discount during Black Friday or if the package could be split somehow so that it would be possible to skip the bloat?


----------



## Markrs

janila said:


> Do you think this is as good a deal as it gets or do you think there will be a bigger discount during Black Friday or if the package could be split somehow so that it would be possible to skip the bloat?


Buying a Opus new rather than upgrade might eventually go 60% off but hard to know when. The upgrade is currently 50% off and that might be as good as it gets with that as they often don't do discounts on upgrades.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

I think it's not going to be any cheaper for a few years. It's not bad considering I got HOD for $138 vs the people who paid $1500x4, though if you did, you can't feel the $300 in your bankruptcy anyway.


----------



## Jdiggity1

I'm curious about the compatibility between versions.
Previously, with the PLAY edition of HO, a project saved with HO Gold could not be opened by somebody who owned Diamond, and vice versa.
Has anybody upgraded OPUS from Gold to Diamond and had success loading old projects? Or going the other direction and opening a Diamond project using Gold?


----------



## wlinart

If you buy the upgrade, do you still keep the old license?


----------



## odod

FINALLY!! ... i made myself bought this .. (with all my saving this past 3 months) ... i have tried to use EWHO with scaler, but it is really not that good tho .. finally i can sleep better while waiting the download thanks EW!


----------



## Evans

Sseltenrych said:


> bear in mind, there is no Mod or expression data in the MIDI here


My opinion is that this causes a pretty strong misrepresentation of Opus's capabilities that could confuse a lot of listeners.


----------



## CatComposer

Evans said:


> My opinion is that this causes a pretty strong misrepresentation of Opus's capabilities that could confuse a lot of listeners.


Maybe, which is why I mentioned it.
To be fair, the Spitfire one has no modulation data either.
I put these together in about 5 minutes.
Anyone is welcome to contribute an example of EWHO with modulation data.


----------



## Braveheart

hag01 said:


> In case no one noticed, there is a sale now on OPUS Edition. The first one ever.


In case you didn’t notice, it’s already discussed in the previous pages.


----------



## cqd

I must say I am kind of miffed..
I didn't expect them to put it on sale so quickly..
But classic East west..


----------



## szczaw

When it comes to discounts, EW's got your back.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I was definitely incorrect in my prediction that the upgrade price would not drop this year. I didn’t have enough EW skepticism to assume they would drop the price by $200 just 4 months later. Is $200 a worthy amount for 4 months of additional use? I’ll leave that to others to debate, but I’ve learned my lesson in regards to EW’s pricing strategy.


----------



## Markrs

In general (with possibly a few exceptions) never buy at intro prices. It seems these days they often do a heavier discount only a few months later.


----------



## Evans

This is why people should make purchases based on the value they assign to a product, and nothing more.

I minimally touched Afflatus before it hit that 50% off sale, and I'm okay with that because I paid what I thought it was worth at the time of my purchase.


----------



## cqd

Markrs said:


> In general (with possibly a few exceptions) never buy at intro prices. It seems these days they often do a heavier discount only a few months later.


Now you tell me..


----------



## janila

How well does Opus work on a set-and-forget slave? Can the moods be automated? How about mic loading and mixing? Do you use both or is either enough? Is the Orchestrator useless without seeing the GUI? What other considerations are there in this particular use case?


----------



## Markrs

cqd said:


> Now you tell me..


I have bought plenty at intro prices and took some hits as the prices tumble. The worst part is often I hadn't even really used the library yet before the price reduced forget.


----------



## M_Helder

Markrs said:


> Just checked the East West website and the upgrade is on sale for $295
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest
> 
> 
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soundsonline.com


Thank you! At this price point I finally feel like it is a worthy upgrade for me.


----------



## awaey

Can I upgrade from Hollywood orchestra gold to Opus Diamond ? or should have Hollywood orchestra Diamond to upgrade ?


----------



## Markrs

awaey said:


> Can I upgrade from Hollywood orchestra gold to Opus Diamond ? or should have Hollywood orchestra Diamond to upgrade ?


It seems they are not offering a Hollywood Orchestra Gold upgrade, that I can see.


----------



## kwencel

Markrs said:


> It seems they are not offering a Hollywood Orchestra Gold upgrade, that I can see.


I have spoken with Thomas from EW Support Chat and he said the $295 (+VAT) price is offered to owners of EITHER Gold or Diamond HWO legacy, it does not make a difference. After the upgrade you will be an owner of HOOPUS Diamond, so it's a very good deal in my opinion.


----------



## awaey

Markrs said:


> It seems they are not offering a Hollywood Orchestra Gold upgrade, that I can see.





kwencel said:


> I have spoken with Thomas from EW Support Chat and he said the $295 (+VAT) price is offered to owners of EITHER Gold or Diamond HWO legacy, it does not make a difference. After the upgrade you will be an owner of HOOPUS Diamond, so it's a very good deal in my opinion.


email received from east west say from gold


----------



## Markrs

kwencel said:


> I have spoken with Thomas from EW Support Chat and he said the $295 (+VAT) price is offered to owners of EITHER Gold or Diamond HWO legacy, it does not make a difference. After the upgrade you will be an owner of HOOPUS Diamond, so it's a very good deal in my opinion.





awaey said:


> email received from east west say from gold


That is a very good deal!


----------



## AceAudioHQ

kwencel said:


> I have spoken with Thomas from EW Support Chat and he said the $295 (+VAT) price is offered to owners of EITHER Gold or Diamond HWO legacy, it does not make a difference. After the upgrade you will be an owner of HOOPUS Diamond, so it's a very good deal in my opinion.


Argh, I bought hollywood orchestra diamond only because I wanted opus diamond, I already had gold before. Also even with the big upgrade discount, it would have still been cheaper to just buy Opus outright instead of upgrading, on audiodeluxe it costs $595, but no VAT and you get 15% off with the code SUMMER21 and you also get $26.74 worth of deluxebucks


----------



## Markrs

AceAudioHQ said:


> audiodeluxe it costs $595, but no VAT and you get 15% off with the code SUMMER21 and you also get $26.74 worth of deluxebucks


Even cheaper on JRRShop where it is just under $500 (Audiodeluxe discount only takes 10% off Opus rather than 15%)


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Markrs said:


> Even cheaper on JRRShop where it is just under $500 (Audiodeluxe discount only takes 10% off rather than 15%)


So it seems, I wonder if that's a bug or if opus is part of the *some exclusions apply (which I can't find listed anywhere), it does say -15% on the Opus product page.


----------



## Question-Guy

Wow, I bought the Diamond Upgrade from HO 1 week ago and now its going on sale! I didn't even used it properly, just creating templates and stuff and now I see, if I waited another week I could save 300$...


----------



## Markrs

AceAudioHQ said:


> So it seems, I wonder if that's a bug or if opus is part of the *some exclusions apply (which I can't find listed anywhere), it does say -15% on the Opus product page.


It seems it is _up to_ 15% off


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Markrs said:


> It seems it is _up to_ 15% off


ah, the typical con!


----------



## Braveheart

Since there is no more Opus Gold, what is the version on CCX? Is it Diamond edition?


----------



## Markrs

Braveheart said:


> Since there is no more Opus Gold, what is the version on CCX? Is it Diamond edition?


Still Gold with the close mic added


----------



## Casiquire

szczaw said:


> When it comes to discounts, EW's got your back.


Unless you're an existing customer haha


----------



## szczaw

Casiquire said:


> Unless you're an existing customer haha


----------



## AceAudioHQ

angry people and pitchforks, check, now we only need nick phoenix wondering why people are (once again) upset! :>


----------



## easyrider

Question-Guy said:


> Wow, I bought the Diamond Upgrade from HO 1 week ago and now its going on sale! I didn't even used it properly, just creating templates and stuff and now I see, if I waited another week I could save 300$...


Never buy a sample library unless it’s on sale ever….


----------



## Project Anvil

And yet this existing customer is quite happy with EW. Yes their sales policy is weird and they suck at marketing, but VSL has a backward dongle policy, Cinesamples has crap support, Spitfire has obnoxious marketing, 8Dio is... 8Dio, Virharmonic always misses their release date, need I go on?

I knew this sale would come sooner than later, yet I still paid the full (upgrade) price for OPUS and I don't feel slighted. It was entirely a given that EW would discount it, just like how the whole OPUS release fiasco was a given - it's how the company works and has always worked. Could it be better? Sure. Is it likely to change? Hell no. They've been like this for over a decade now.

I don't have trouble putting up with it because I love the sound and the depth of sampling. Even after several years now I'm still getting more and more out of the Hollywood series libraries. My most recent attempt being this mockup of the dogs of war midi data that's floating around out there (using only the solo french horn legato patch):


----------



## CatComposer

Evans said:


> My opinion is that this causes a pretty strong misrepresentation of Opus's capabilities that could confuse a lot of listeners.


If you would like to add modulation data yourself to showcase Opus's capabilities,
here is the Midi file.
It was posted on this forum a few years ago.


----------



## BasariStudios

Wait few more months...when the upgrade will be 799$ and buying it outright will be 299$. Happy Hoopus NONowner in here. I am proud i stood my ground.


----------



## DarinD

kwencel said:


> I have spoken with Thomas from EW Support Chat and he said the $295 (+VAT) price is offered to owners of EITHER Gold or Diamond HWO legacy, it does not make a difference. After the upgrade you will be an owner of HOOPUS Diamond, so it's a very good deal in my opinion.


I have Gold HWO and they charged me an extra $49, listed as "Hollywood Strings Diamond - Upgrade from Gold" on the receipt. So $295+$49. Great deal as far as I'm concerned - it's easy to spend a lot more money than that for an entire orchestra or even a few sections.


----------



## Markrs

DarinD said:


> I have Gold HWO and they charged me an extra $49, listed as "Hollywood Strings Diamond - Upgrade from Gold" on the receipt. So $295+$49. Great deal as far as I'm concerned - it's easy to spend a lot more money than that for an entire orchestra or even a few sections.


That's really useful to know. I think it is a solid deal at that price


----------



## AndyP

AceAudioHQ said:


> angry people and pitchforks, check, now we only need nick phoenix wondering why people are (once again) upset! :>


But he has already said several times that he has nothing to do with the marketing! Presumably, he has since yesterday deactivated his Internet.


----------



## jonathanwright

I own HO Winds Gold, Brass Gold, Strings Diamond and Percussion Diamond, but all bought separately.

Does that allow me to purchase the upgrade?


----------



## Markrs

jonathanwright said:


> I own HO Winds Gold, Brass Gold, Strings Diamond and Percussion Diamond, but all bought separately.
> 
> Does that allow me to purchase the upgrade?


You should be able to, worth checking with East West support. I also found that if you login and then look to upgrade it gives you a custom upgrade price.


----------



## jonathanwright

Markrs said:


> You should be able to, worth checking with East West support. I also found that if you login and then look to upgrade it gives you a custom upgrade price.


Cheers, just contacted them and I qualify. Downloading now.


----------



## ChristianM

Always problems with midi export in Logic ?


----------



## zeng

I am using Hollwyood Orchestra OPUS with Composer Cloud X (CCX) membership. So I have 2 mics instead of full diamond mics. Are there any other differences such as patches, articulations between Opus CCX edition and Opus Diamond edition?


----------



## Markrs

zeng said:


> I am using Hollwyood Orchestra OPUS with Composer Cloud X (CCX) membership. So I have 2 mics instead of full diamond mics. Are there any other differences such as patches, articulations between Opus CCX edition and Opus Diamond edition?


You get string Divisi and I believe the samples are 24bit rather than 16bit


----------



## zeng

Markrs said:


> You get string Divisi and I believe the samples are 24bit rather than 16bit


oh ok, yes, I don't have divisi strings, but in the manual it says;
"CCX has all the instruments. The difference is the bit and mics." That's why I am confused.

The Opus Edition Gold version, which you can purchase or access with the ComposerCloud subscription, is 16-bit samples and one microphone position. It is approximately 130 GB in size, *which includes both the original and new expansion content. *The Opus Edition Gold X version, only available with a ComposerCloud X subscription, adds one additional microphone position to the Gold version. As a combined total, it is approximately 242 GB in size. The Opus Edition Diamond version, which you can purchase or access with the ComposerCloud Plus subscription, is 24-bit samples with all microphone positions. It is approximately 944 GB in size, which includes both the original and new expansion content.


----------



## cnogradi

So does the Orchestrator still come with the upgrade to Opus?


----------



## Kabuki

zeng said:


> oh ok, yes, I don't have divisi strings, but in the manual it says;
> "CCX has all the instruments. The difference is the bit and mics." That's why I am confused.


The divisi in HS isn't actually divisi but simply a mic position which emphasizes the first chair and surrounding players. Mostly used to layer for more definition.

Also Diamond had Bow Change Legato but Gold didn't. Not sure about Composer Cloud though.


----------



## cqd

cnogradi said:


> So does the Orchestrator still come with the upgrade to Opus?


Yeah..


Hope they haven't given up on the updates for this..They seem to have slowed down..


----------



## zeng

Kabuki said:


> The divisi in HS isn't actually divisi but simply a mic position which emphasizes the first chair and surrounding players. Mostly used to layer for more definition.
> 
> Also Diamond had Bow Change Legato but Gold didn't. Not sure about Composer Cloud though.


Oh I see, thank you very much for the info...


----------



## Markrs

Kabuki said:


> The divisi in HS isn't actually divisi but simply a mic position which emphasizes the first chair and surrounding players. Mostly used to layer for more definition.
> 
> Also Diamond had Bow Change Legato but Gold didn't. Not sure about Composer Cloud though.


Bit confused, there are Divisi samples, are you saying they are just a mic position rather than just half of the violin section etc playing?


----------



## lettucehat

Markrs said:


> Bit confused, there are Divisi samples, are you saying they are just a mic position rather than just half of the violin section etc playing?


Don't know how it changed in the Opus Diamond edition, but in the old HO Diamond there are divisi A and B. It may just be different mic positions of the same recordings, but it works. The catch: divisi _only_ has these close mics. It's still nice if you can get what you want out of it.

Did bow change make it to Opus Diamond?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

I saw someone here say the two Divisi mic positions are simply mono L and R of the Close microphone position. They tested to NULL or something, you know that test to see if two audio files are the same.


----------



## Markrs

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> They tested to NULL or something, you know that test to see if two audio files are the same.


They must have phase inverted then and see if the cancelled each other out. If they did then they are the same samples. Disappointing if that is the case.


----------



## zeng

Markrs said:


> They must have phase inverted then and see if the cancelled each other out. If they did then they are the same samples. Disappointing if that is the case.


I didn't know that either. Btw, I have HS Diamond (oldest one), and I am a member of CCX. So I have both OPUS Gold and Play Diamond. I have an opportunity to upgrade my OPUS Gold to Diamond for $295. Is it worth to make this upgrade or should I stay with both Opus and Play?


----------



## Markrs

zeng said:


> I didn't know that either. Btw, I have HS Diamond (oldest one), and I am a member of CCX. So I have both OPUS Gold and Play Diamond. I have an opportunity to upgrade my OPUS Gold to Diamond for $295. Is it worth to make this upgrade or should I stay with both Opus and Play?


I have CCX and HO Diamond. I prefer to use Opus in CCX over HO Diamond as it is easier to use for me and I love the ability to load all the samples straight from dusk work no pre-loading which really saves on time and RAM usage.


----------



## Dex

If you buy the upgrade from HO diamond to Opus diamond, do you lose your HO diamond licenses?


----------



## szczaw

Dex said:


> If you buy the upgrade from HO diamond to Opus diamond, do you lose your HO diamond licenses?


Nope. Edit: although upgrading to Opus can corrupt some of HO brass patches. This happened to me, but maybe they fixed it.


----------



## Stevie

I still have some older projects using the Play engine. Do I need to install the sample content twice in that case, 1 for Play to cover old projects and 1 for Opus?
Right now, it looks like I'm redownloading the whole sample content again just for Opus.


----------



## SupremeFist

Apologies if this is already mentioned somewhere in the thread, but exactly how much extra download is HOOPUS if I already have HOD installed?


----------



## Kabuki

Can someone with Opus confirm that all articulations from Play are there in Opus? Specifically, the Marc Leg Slur+Port & KSFP 4th Pos patches for HS, and the Leg Exp patches for the woodwinds?
I've seen some reviews where those articulations were missing. I'm guessing the reviewers didn't download them but just making sure.


----------



## lettucehat

Kabuki said:


> Can someone with Opus confirm that all articulations from Play are there in Opus? Specifically, the Marc Leg Slur+Port & KSFP 4th Pos patches for HS, and the Leg Exp patches for the woodwinds?
> I've seen some reviews where those articulations were missing. I'm guessing the reviewers didn't download them but just making sure.


They are definitely not there in that form, completely streamlined and, I think, a lot left out for the sake of simplicity. But maybe that's just Opus Gold and Diamond is more complete.


----------



## jonathanwright

I'm very impressed with the support from EW. I had a couple of questions and a small issue with installation, and both times I received a response within a couple of minutes.


----------



## woafmann

SupremeFist said:


> Apologies if this is already mentioned somewhere in the thread, but exactly how much extra download is HOOPUS if I already have HOD installed?


For me, having HOD installed but no solo instruments, the HOOPUS+Solos is somewhere around 355GB extra.


----------



## ennbr

Don't recall seeing this posted here Opus 1.0.4 has been released I'm looking for a change log


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

just to confirm, the Opus upgrade from Hollywood Diamond includes solo instruments?


----------



## cqd

Zoot_Rollo said:


> just to confirm, the Opus upgrade from Hollywood Diamond includes solo instruments?


Yep..While the violin and the cello are only ok, the harp is pretty much the best one i have I reckon..


----------



## Tremendouz

cqd said:


> Yep..While the violin and the cello are only ok, the harp is pretty much the best one i have I reckon..


Do you happen to have Cineharps? Wondering how it compares


----------



## muziksculp

Are the new OPUS Woodwinds quite a big improvement compared to the Hollywood Diamond Woodwinds ?


----------



## cqd

Tremendouz said:


> Do you happen to have Cineharps? Wondering how it compares


I prefer it to cineharp and the spitfire harp..


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

muziksculp said:


> Are the new OPUS Woodwinds quite a big improvement compared to the Hollywood Diamond Woodwinds ?


from the Music Tech review:

"Previously, the woodwinds section was an undeniable weakness in the Hollywood Orchestra library. A great deal of work has gone into rectifying this and, across the entire Opus edition, it’s in the woodwinds that you’ll hear the biggest improvements.

The sound quality is undeniably better and, crucially, there are now woodwind ensemble patches – a notable omission from the old edition. These new ensembles, consisting of three flutes, three clarinets, and three bassoons, bring EastWest much closer to the competition’s sound quality. Once again, the new legato mode makes the whole section feel much more satisfying to play."


----------



## ZeeCount

muziksculp said:


> Are the new OPUS Woodwinds quite a big improvement compared to the Hollywood Diamond Woodwinds ?


Yup. The biggest issue I had with the HOW Woodwinds were the legato cross fades and the phasing issues in the crossfades. A lot of the phasing issues are gone, or greatly reduced. You can still audibly hear the crossfading on some of instruments, but its much less apparent than it was in HOW (where the clarinet and oboe legatos were unusable in an exposed setting). I'd say the legatos are now at least as good as the Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds or Cine Woodwind, but not as good as Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.


----------



## muziksculp

ZeeCount said:


> Yup. The biggest issue I had with the HOW Woodwinds were the legato cross fades and the phasing issues in the crossfades. A lot of the phasing issues are gone, or greatly reduced. You can still audibly hear the crossfading on some of instruments, but its much less apparent than it was in HOW (where the clarinet and oboe legatos were unusable in an exposed setting). I'd say the legatos are now at least as good as the Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds or Cine Woodwind, but not as good as Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.


Hi @ZeeCount ,

THANKS !  

I finally decided to upgrade from HO-Diamond, which I rarely used, and had deleted from my PC, to the new OPUS Orchestra version. Upgrade was $295. 

I'm very excited to see how I get along with OPUS Orchestra. I watched a few reviews, and it sounds very good, and the new OPUS player is so much nicer, and has some great features, and no more convoluted articulation lists to deal with. Easy key-switch management, and much more cool features. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## ZeeCount

muziksculp said:


> Hi @ZeeCount ,
> 
> THANKS !
> 
> I finally decided to upgrade from HO-Diamond, which I rarely used, and had deleted from my PC, to the new OPUS Orchestra version. Upgrade was $295.
> 
> I'm very excited to see how I get along with OPUS Orchestra. I watched a few reviews, and it sounds very good, and the new OPUS player is so much nicer, and has some great features, and no more convoluted articulation lists to deal with. Easy key-switch management, and much more cool features.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


Here's a quick and dirty test comparing OPUS to HOW. Same midi programming for both so you can hear how they react. I played it in with one pass, and didn't edit it.

Here's a similar test I did with CineWind and Cinematic Studio Woodwind to compare: 





Cinewinds Core or Cinematic Studio Woodwinds?


I've been searching for woodwind library for a pretty good while and have noticed these 2 have been pretty popular picks for people. With the Cinesamples spring sale going on and being an owner of CCS giving me a discount, I can get either for a somewhat similar price ($244 & $280) I'd...




vi-control.net


----------



## muziksculp

ZeeCount said:


> Here's a quick and dirty test comparing OPUS to HOW. Same midi programming for both so you can hear how they react. I played it in with one pass, and didn't edit it.


The HOW version is painful to listen to. The OPUS version is much smoother, but I noticed it started nice in the begginning, but then got a bit choppy, do you know why that happened ?

Thanks.


----------



## ZeeCount

muziksculp said:


> The HOW version is painful to listen to. The OPUS version is much smoother, but I noticed it started nice in the begginning, but then got a bit choppy, do you know why that happened ?
> 
> Thanks.


I only got OPUS yesterday, so still not familiar with working with it yet. As all virtual instruments, it has its quirks that you need to work around in terms of programming. The good news is they are not fatal like they were with HOW. Also, that was played in one pass and I only woke up about 20 min ago...


----------



## muziksculp

ZeeCount said:


> I only got OPUS yesterday, so still not familiar with working with it yet


OK.. I guess that answers my question. 

Thanks.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

ZeeCount said:


> Here's a quick and dirty test comparing OPUS to HOW. Same midi programming for both so you can hear how they react. I played it in with one pass, and didn't edit it.
> 
> Here's a similar test I did with CineWind and Cinematic Studio Woodwind to compare:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cinewinds Core or Cinematic Studio Woodwinds?
> 
> 
> I've been searching for woodwind library for a pretty good while and have noticed these 2 have been pretty popular picks for people. With the Cinesamples spring sale going on and being an owner of CCS giving me a discount, I can get either for a somewhat similar price ($244 & $280) I'd...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net


hmmm, all 4 sound odd to me - HOW being the most jarring.

thank you for posting.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

muziksculp said:


> Hi @ZeeCount ,
> 
> THANKS !
> 
> I finally decided to upgrade from HO-Diamond, which I rarely used, and had deleted from my PC, to the new OPUS Orchestra version. Upgrade was $295.
> 
> I'm very excited to see how I get along with OPUS Orchestra. I watched a few reviews, and it sounds very good, and the new OPUS player is so much nicer, and has some great features, and no more convoluted articulation lists to deal with. Easy key-switch management, and much more cool features.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


seems we are on the same page with excitement and expectations.

the upgrade offer ends September 30?


----------



## muziksculp

Zoot_Rollo said:


> seems we are on the same page with excitement and expectations.
> 
> the upgrade offer ends September 30?


Yes very optimistic and excited to use OPUS Orch. 

I'm not sure when the upgrade offer ends. I didn't check for that info.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Zoot_Rollo

muziksculp said:


>



i just watched the first of his review videos.

holy moly, the MIX section ALONE is worth the upgrade, in my opinion.

since I bought Hollywood Diamond at a super low price, it would be silly not to upgrade, since - like a few here - i rarely use it.

with Opus, i will!

onto video 2.

thanks @muziksculp


----------



## Tremendouz

muziksculp said:


>



He mentions the patches use more RAM in Opus but surely the purge function will end up saving RAM compared to the old Hollywood Diamond if you use it for every instrument?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

Tremendouz said:


> He mentions the patches use more RAM in Opus but surely the purge function will end up saving RAM compared to the old Hollywood Diamond if you use it for every instrument?


i skimmed over most of video 1, but i THINK it's VERY configurable regarding the purge.

i'm maxed out at 128gb RAM on my system, so it will be interesting to see how it's handled.

just need to move a few Kontakt libraries and my existing Hollywood install drive will be ready to go.


----------



## muziksculp

Q. I'm not a Composer Cloud subscriber, but own OPUS Orchestra, and i.e. another library like Silk. but Silk is not installed on my PC.

Can I download specific Instruments/Patches that I need from Silk or any other library I own to the specified download drive in OPUS Player, on an as needed basis ?

I'm guessing the answer is Yes, but I just want to double check.

Thanks.


----------



## Tremendouz

Zoot_Rollo said:


> i skimmed over most of video 1, but i THINK it's VERY configurable regarding the purge.
> 
> i'm maxed out at 128gb RAM on my system, so it will be interesting to see how it's handled.
> 
> just need to move a few Kontakt libraries and my existing Hollywood install drive will be ready to go.


I'm asking cause I'm stuck with 32GB and they don't sell Gold anymore haha. Although I have to say I couldn't live without the close mic for certain instruments like the timpani.

I kinda wish that Opus diamond included a license of gold for us... RAM-challenged


----------



## Bman70

ZeeCount said:


> Here's a quick and dirty test comparing OPUS to HOW. Same midi programming for both so you can hear how they react. I played it in with one pass, and didn't edit it.


Did you play it into each one separately, or play it into one then copy it to the other?


----------



## sundrowned

I seem to have a bug a few people had earlier in the thread. In the orchestrator ostinatos and scores won't load. Only the ensembles. 

Turning on 'never pre-load' in settings didn't help, as some suggested. 

Any ideas beyond re-installing everything?


----------



## ZeeCount

Bman70 said:


> Did you play it into each one separately, or play it into one then copy it to the other?


For the HOW vs OPUS its the same midi as the point was to demonstrate the difference on how they react to the data. The Cine Wind and CSW ones both have unique midi.


----------



## Bman70

ZeeCount said:


> For the HOW vs OPUS its the same midi as the point was to demonstrate the difference on how they react to the data. The Cine Wind and CSW ones both have unique midi.


Yeah the reason I asked is, whichever one you play the MIDI into can sometimes have an advantage, since you're hearing it as you play it and adjusting. Whereas the one with copied MIDI is getting data created without real-time adjustment. This isn't so important if there's no dynamic input i.e. CC or. modwheel.


----------



## cqd

It's fairly obvious the Opus one is significantly better than the HO one anyway..
Cc1 is probably a bit high..rolling it back really works with Hollywood orchestra..


----------



## ZeeCount

Bman70 said:


> Yeah the reason I asked is, whichever one you play the MIDI into can sometimes have an advantage, since you're hearing it as you play it and adjusting. Whereas the one with copied MIDI is getting data created without real-time adjustment. This isn't so important if there's no dynamic input i.e. CC or. modwheel.


I played it in using HOW first.


----------



## Bman70

cqd said:


> It's fairly obvious the Opus one is significantly better than the HO one anyway..
> Cc1 is probably a bit high..rolling it back really works with Hollywood orchestra..


Seems so for sure. I wonder since they use the same samples (except the 18 violin patch?), how it's making the samples sound better.


----------



## cqd

Bman70 said:


> Seems so for sure. I wonder since they use the same samples (except the 18 violin patch?), how it's making the samples sound better.


The legato is better across the board..mixing and effects are better..There's the moods thing..
There's also the new brass..And the orchestrator..


----------



## jamieboo

How balanced is the volume relationships between instruments?
I use the old PLAY version of Diamond and I find I have to make some really drastic fader differences between instruments and even articulations for the orchestra to have an even half way natural sounding balance.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

jamieboo said:


> How balanced is the volume relationships between instruments?
> I use the old PLAY version of Diamond and I find I have to make some really drastic fader differences between instruments and even articulations for the orchestra to have an even half way natural sounding balance.


according to these 3 videos, the balance issue has been addressed nicely with Opus.


----------



## cqd

Looks like one of those aptitude test questions..
I reckon he'll be upside-down diagonally from the top right corner next..


----------



## eromain

I am impressed by the mixing done on the East West Opus tutorials. Does anyone know if there is any info or guidance on the mixing? Or who I should email to request a tutorial on that subject??


----------



## zeng

cqd said:


> It's fairly obvious the Opus one is significantly better than the HO one anyway..
> Cc1 is probably a bit high..rolling it back really works with Hollywood orchestra..


Does Composer Cloud X also include the updated Hollywood Woodwinds version?


----------



## Trash Panda

eromain said:


> I am impressed by the mixing done on the East West Opus tutorials. Does anyone know if there is any info or guidance on the mixing? Or who I should email to request a tutorial on that subject??


@Beat Kaufmann has a great orchestral mixing course.


----------



## Fleer

Zoot_Rollo said:


> according to these 3 videos, the balance issue has been addressed nicely with Opus.



Thanks, hadn’t seen these vids yet. I have to admit that $295 is a great sale price at half off for those who haven’t upgraded yet from the Play version of Hollywood Orchestra Diamond. And I for one love the Orchestrator. Meanwhile, here’s hoping they’ll go Apple Silicon native soon.


----------



## lettucehat

cqd said:


> Looks like one of those aptitude test questions..
> I reckon he'll be upside-down diagonally from the top right corner next..


Obviously it will be diagonal on the bottom right corner!


----------



## szczaw

eromain said:


> I am impressed by the mixing done on the East West Opus tutorials. Does anyone know if there is any info or guidance on the mixing? Or who I should email to request a tutorial on that subject??


https://synthestration.com/product/beyond-the-storm/ is I believe, by the same composer.


----------



## Tremendouz

One thing that popped into my mind: which mics does each mood actually use? Is there some mic that never gets used by those and you can safely remove the samples to save disk space?


----------



## odod

i hope they have midi extract features from Orchestrator, and also more midi to play with


----------



## eromain

szczaw said:


> https://synthestration.com/product/beyond-the-storm/ is I believe, by the same composer.


Thanks but I work in Logic Pro X


----------



## Soundbed

Tremendouz said:


> One thing that popped into my mind: which mics does each mood actually use? Is there some mic that never gets used by those and you can safely remove the samples to save disk space?


The answers to this start around 19 minutes into this video:


----------



## Tremendouz

Soundbed said:


> The answers to this start around 19 minutes into this video:



Thank you! So it seems that the surround and vintage mics aren't used (unless it's different for the old instruments? He's using the new 18 violins here that have different mics)


----------



## dzilizzi

odod said:


> i hope they have midi extract features from Orchestrator, and also more midi to play with


Yes, there is something that allows the extract of the midi used. I'm just not sure if it is a record midi out or what. I don't believe it is drag and drop.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, you've to route the midi out and record it or send it to something else..


----------



## muziksculp

An older Video that discusses EW- Hollywood Orch. Diamond PLAY, not OPUS, and the Composer Cloud. But I found it useful.


----------



## artomatic

Rey said:


> "Instrument folder invalid" . The selected directory does not match hollywood strings opus etc..etc...
> 
> happens when i try to change drive and folder



I'm getting this message as well. In my case, I copied Hollywood Strings Diamond to a new, 2TB dedicated SSD just for HO Opus.
During the attempt to download from Installation Center, I chose "Locate" and/or "Locate Directory and Reinstall" (pointing to the new SSD) but "Instrument folder invalid - The selected directory does not match Hollywood Orch Strings Opus Instruments" pops up. If you have a workaround or solution, please advise. Thanks!

I have the latest Installation Center.
Mac 7,1 Big Sur


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

artomatic said:


> I'm getting this message as well. In my case, I copied Hollywood Strings Diamond to a new, 2TB dedicated SSD just for HO Opus.
> During the attempt to download from Installation Center, I chose "Locate" and/or "Locate Directory and Reinstall" (pointing to the new SSD) but "Instrument folder invalid - The selected directory does not match Hollywood Orch Strings Opus Instruments" pops up. If you have a workaround or solution, please advise. Thanks!
> 
> I have the latest Installation Center.
> Mac 7,1 Big Sur


interesting, Installation Center automatically found my Diamond Install location and started doing its thing.

Brass is done and those Trombones are intense!


----------



## artomatic

Zoot_Rollo said:


> interesting, Installation Center automatically found my Diamond Install location and started doing its thing.
> 
> Brass is done and those Trombones are intense!



Well, as noted, I did move the original location to a fresh, dedicated SSD for all things Opus.
The original location did not have enough space to install the Opus version...


----------



## muziksculp

I haven't started the Hollywood Orchestra OPUS download yet, I wonder how long it's going to take for the entire library to be installed. I know this depends on the download speed, but on average, how long is it taking to install this mammoth library ?


----------



## muziksculp

Zoot_Rollo said:


> interesting, Installation Center automatically found my Diamond Install location and started doing its thing.
> 
> Brass is done and those Trombones are intense!


Cool ! 

How long did it take you to download the H.Orch OPUS Brass ?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

muziksculp said:


> Cool !
> 
> How long did it take you to download the H.Orch OPUS Brass ?


all morning - my internet is messed up at the moment. on a chat with my provider now.


----------



## ennbr

muziksculp said:


> I haven't started the Hollywood Orchestra OPUS download yet


Orchestrator is very small 550mb or so installed if I recall


----------



## muziksculp

Zoot_Rollo said:


> all morning - my internet is messed up at the moment. on a chat with my provider now.


OK. Thanks. 

Hopefully they will fix whatever is messed up with your internet connection. I hate it when I have to deal with ISP. regarding internet issues. Be patient, you will get it sorted out.


----------



## muziksculp

ennbr said:


> Orchestrator is very small 550mb or so installed if I recall


Thanks, good to know, but I'm asking about the entire OPUS Orchestra Install time. Which is a huge libarary, almost 1 TB.


----------



## alcorey

muziksculp said:


> Thanks, good to know, but I'm asking about the entire OPUS Orchestra Install time. Which is a huge libarary, almost 1 TB.


Took me roughly 2.5 hours. I only have a 100 MB connection and I downloaded late at night - all of it on CC+ as I was new to E/W product


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

muziksculp said:


> OK. Thanks.
> 
> Hopefully they will fix whatever is messed up with your internet connection. I hate it when I have to deal with ISP. regarding internet issues. Be patient, you will get it sorted out.


thanks, they got it up to my 78mb/sec restarting my modem.

should have done this at night, but i wanted to sleep on it before deciding.

no rush though, but running the Opus player is lovely!


----------



## muziksculp

alcorey said:


> Took me roughly 2.5 hours. I only have a 100 MB connection and I downloaded late at night - all of it on CC+ as I was new to E/W product


THANKS. WOW... That was pretty fast !  

Yes, there is always more Internet bandwidth during late night.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

artomatic said:


> Well, as noted, I did move the original location to a fresh, dedicated SSD for all things Opus.
> The original location did not have enough space to install the Opus version...


yes, sorry i didn't respond to your request for a workaround - because i didn't have one.

library folder locations can get crazy making.

please let us know how you get it working.


----------



## muziksculp

Q. Do you tend to use the String Sustains for your String Harmony ? If not, do you ever use them ? if Yes, for what ?

I'm asking because these days everyone seems to use Legatos for the Strings instead of the sustains. Just curious, and do you think Developers are expecting us to use these Sustains ? or just throwing them in as a bonus ?

I find using String Sustains not very convincing, and creates a big mush of sound, with little definition compared to using Singe Legato lines to create the harmonic bed for a composition. Especially given the Sustain transition sound clunky/disconnected from one chord to the next, and the sound of too many strings playing, i.e. if you happen to play a triad using the First Violins. ..etc. sounds unrealistic. 

I have posted a thread on this topic a little while ago. Please feel free to voice your opinion about String Sustain articulations.

Here is the link to the thread : https://vi-control.net/community/th...-for-your-strings-chordal-arrangement.111051/

Thanks.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

impressive set of MIDI Tools!


----------



## Jay Panikkar

Several months later, the "Loose" staccato patches in Hollywood Strings are still missing in OPUS. WTF was the point of EW removing these patches in the first place?


----------



## Petrucci

Jay Panikkar said:


> Several months later, the "Loose" staccato patches in Hollywood Strings are still missing in OPUS. WTF was the point of EW removing these patches in the first place?



Yeah, that's really strange..)


----------



## Tremendouz

Jay Panikkar said:


> Several months later, the "Loose" staccato patches in Hollywood Strings are still missing in OPUS. WTF was the point of EW removing these patches in the first place?


Isn't loose the only one that's included in Opus in the first place? That's what one of the videos linked in this thread said at least.


----------



## Jay Panikkar

Tremendouz said:


> Isn't loose the only one that's included in Opus in the first place? That's what one of the videos linked in this thread said at least.


No, it's only the "Tight" patches that come with the OPUS release. It would seem that they wanted to avoid timing issues with the Orchestrator—the "Tight" patches are closer to the attack timing of the other articulations. This is a sensible change, but why completely remove the "Loose" patches?

Strange, indeed.


----------



## Tremendouz

Jay Panikkar said:


> No, it's only the "Tight" patches that come with the OPUS release. It would seem that they wanted to avoid timing issues with the Orchestrator—the "Tight" patches are closer to the attack timing of the other articulations. This is a sensible change, but why completely remove the "Loose" patches?
> 
> Strange, indeed.


Ouch, that would be bad. I hate it when libraries make compromises to minimize latency.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

Jay Panikkar said:


> No, it's only the "Tight" patches that come with the OPUS release. It would seem that they wanted to avoid timing issues with the Orchestrator—the "Tight" patches are closer to the attack timing of the other articulations. This is a sensible change, but why completely remove the "Loose" patches?
> 
> Strange, indeed.


did you contact support?


----------



## dzilizzi

szczaw said:


> https://synthestration.com/product/beyond-the-storm/ is I believe, by the same composer.


Yes, Benny. I was hoping he would put it out there so we could get a better idea of how it works. I already mentioned it to jdiggety.


----------



## szczaw

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, Benny. I was hoping he would put it out there so we could get a better idea of how it works. I already mentioned it to jdiggety.


Benny did a demo song for EW, but I think YouTube tutorials and Beyond the Storm are by Ryan Thomas.


----------



## dzilizzi

szczaw said:


> Benny did a demo song for EW, but I think YouTube tutorials and Beyond the Storm are by Ryan Thomas.


Okay, I must have missed that. But then again, I only saw the one song they released initially, which was Benny's. I bought early, thinking they would have a year before they released it. I don't know if Ryan Thomas has worked with jdiggety, so it might not be possible to get it.


----------



## Rtomproductions

szczaw said:


> https://synthestration.com/product/beyond-the-storm/ is I believe, by the same composer.


No, this is not correct (although he is a FANTASTIC composer, and the template is super solid). I have a template on that site, but I have yet to find the time to update it to Opus. Soon...


----------



## Rtomproductions

dzilizzi said:


> Okay, I must have missed that. But then again, I only saw the one song they released initially, which was Benny's. I bought early, thinking they would have a year before they released it. I don't know if Ryan Thomas has worked with jdiggety, so it might not be possible to get it.


Beyond the Storm is not me (fantastic demo btw); my template is on the site, but it's still the old Play only version. Still working on the Opus conversion, but man...it's just time consuming and I got, like, work and stuff


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

apologies if this has been posted already

pretty sweet - Orchestrator remains the "master" source. Any changes in Orchestrator trickle down to the exported MIDI.


----------



## Heledir

Would someone be so kind as to tell me the on-disk size of the Hollywood Opus Woodwinds Diamond? It didn't unpack everything, so I manually did the rest of it, but I still don't think it matches the size Installation Center said it was.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

Heledir said:


> Would someone be so kind as to tell me the on-disk size of the Hollywood Opus Woodwinds Diamond? It didn't unpack everything, so I manually did the rest of it, but I still don't think it matches the size Installation Center said it was.


it looks like the new Opus samples are mixed with the old Play samples.


----------



## BassClef

Just got Opus and have a question. Let’s say I create a multi in an Opus instance, like trumpets, horns, and trombones and balance their individual volume levels to my liking. They all appear in the left panel however when I try to control the overall volume (of the three instruments in the multi) the master gain slider (in the PLAY tab) only controls the volume of the instrument selected (highlighted) in the left panel. And I see no way to “select all” so the master gain controls the overall volume of my multi, while maintaining my set balance. What am I doing wrong?


----------



## Heledir

Zoot_Rollo said:


> it looks like the new Opus samples are mixed with the old Play samples.



Well that's certainly different...






I'll just wait and see what other strange things will happen.


----------



## Jdiggity1

szczaw said:


> https://synthestration.com/product/beyond-the-storm/ is I believe, by the same composer.


I'm flattered you think my piece was made by the one and only Benny O. But I'm afraid that one was little ol' me.
Normally I'm happy to stay anonymous and unknown, but I wouldn't want @bennyoschmann or @Rtomproductions to be attributed with my sloppy orchestrations.


----------



## almo

hi.. I've just got my new opus diamond... and I noticed, that they finally made keyswitch instruments for multiple articulations...But I was wondering, if ist possible to modify those instruments and change articulations?


----------



## cqd

almo said:


> hi.. I've just got my new opus diamond... and I noticed, that they finally made keyswitch instruments for multiple articulations...But I was wondering, if ist possible to modify those instruments and change articulations?


Yeah, you can turn them on or off with the switch and choose keyswitch or cc too..


----------



## almo

but how? sich on and off, I can see.. but I wanna build my own instruments..for example, I wanna change instruments from max to lite


----------



## cqd

I don't think you can change from max to lite..
That's pretty much your selection..load the ones you want, unload the others, and choose their keyswitches..


----------



## almo

that's a shame.. because, it gives the user so much possibilities.. but there must be a way.. the articulations in the KS instruments by ART conductor differentiate from the ones from east west and opus offers an export function to logic articulation maps....


----------



## Rtomproductions

Jdiggity1 said:


> I'm flattered you think my piece was made by the one and only Benny O. But I'm afraid that one was little ol' me.
> Normally I'm happy to stay anonymous and unknown, but I wouldn't want @bennyoschmann or @Rtomproductions to be attributed with my sloppy orchestrations.


Lol dude shut up. I freely admit I studied your demo.


----------



## BassClef

BassClef said:


> Just got Opus and have a question. Let’s say I create a multi in an Opus instance, like trumpets, horns, and trombones and balance their individual volume levels to my liking. They all appear in the left panel however when I try to control the overall volume (of the three instruments in the multi) the master gain slider (in the PLAY tab) only controls the volume of the instrument selected (highlighted) in the left panel. And I see no way to “select all” so the master gain controls the overall volume of my multi, while maintaining my set balance. What am I doing wrong?


I just had an online chat with EW. He confirmed that there is no way to control the overall volume of a multi or Orchestrator patch inside the Opus engine. You have to do that inside your DAW with track volume. I'm used to balancing instruments in templates by using each instrument's own master volume, leaving my DAW (Logic) volume slider in the mixer set to zero, until I begin mixing. I'll just have to do that differently with Opus multis.


----------



## SupremeFist

muziksculp said:


> Q. Do you tend to use the String Sustains for your String Harmony ? If not, do you ever use them ? if Yes, for what ?
> 
> I'm asking because these days everyone seems to use Legatos for the Strings instead of the sustains. Just curious, and do you think Developers are expecting us to use these Sustains ? or just throwing them in as a bonus ?
> 
> I find using String Sustains not very convincing, and creates a big mush of sound, with little definition compared to using Singe Legato lines to create the harmonic bed for a composition. Especially given the Sustain transition sound clunky/disconnected from one chord to the next, and the sound of too many strings playing, i.e. if you happen to play a triad using the First Violins. ..etc. sounds unrealistic.
> 
> I have posted a thread on this topic a little while ago. Please feel free to voice your opinion about String Sustain articulations.
> 
> Here is the link to the thread : https://vi-control.net/community/th...-for-your-strings-chordal-arrangement.111051/
> 
> Thanks.


I feel the same way, and also for brass and woods. I'd never pick a "sustain" artic unless I want a very particular sound (eg sordino) that's not covered in the legato patch. It's probably too cynical to suggest that sustain patches are mainly for people who want to play piano chords for their orchestral sections.


----------



## muziksculp

SupremeFist said:


> It's probably too cynical to suggest that sustain patches are mainly for people who want to play piano chords for their orchestral sections.


----------



## Jay Panikkar

BassClef said:


> I just had an online chat with EW. He confirmed that there is no way to control the overall volume of a multi or Orchestrator patch inside the Opus engine. You have to do that inside your DAW with track volume. I'm used to balancing instruments in templates by using each instrument's own master volume, leaving my DAW (Logic) volume slider in the mixer set to zero, until I begin mixing. I'll just have to do that differently with Opus multis.


The "proper" way is to start by using the 'pre-gain' to do preliminary balancing, and not the channel fader, which is at the end of the signal path.

The signal flow in a DAW mixing console is derived from how hardware mixing consoles work. So by default, the signal (in this case, the output from the VST) hits the pre-gain first, then the inserts and sends and lastly, the channel fader.

I don't know how this is setup in Logic, but in Cubase, there is a rack section labeled "PRE" at the start of every channel that has pre-filters and pre-gain.


----------



## almo

cqd said:


> I don't think you can change from max to lite..
> That's pretty much your selection..load the ones you want, unload the others, and choose their keyswitches..


I just had a great Chat with the support:

Hey Alex,
The Keyswitch patch has the full version of any articulation in it that you can use in it and modify
that
if you want to use the lite versions currently you'd have to make a custom keyswitch in the
perform tab
Alex 20:12
But how? Is there any instruction about that?
Michael 20:13
You'd load up any number of articulations you want as separate instruments
then switch tothe perform tab
and on the 'zones' you can edit there to be a keyswitch that activates which instrument you send
on
Alex 20:18
Ahhh.…. I see…I have to check this out tomorrow morning………. It seems to make sense.lot's of
people would be happy to know this.. this concept is well known from vsl
Michael 20:18
Certainly - we need to definitely make a video tutorial in how to do that


----------



## from_theashes

I just subscribed to Composer Cloud X a couple of days ago (after owning the Play Versions of Brass and Percussions) for full HO Opus. And wow!... I can load 200 instances of Opus simultaneously in seconds!!! This is absolutely incredible! Play was a pain to load and crashed my sessions a couple of times. With Opus? No hiccups, instant on and incredible sound! I'm on


----------



## eromain

Rtomproductions said:


> No, this is not correct (although he is a FANTASTIC composer, and the template is super solid). I have a template on that site, but I have yet to find the time to update it to Opus. Soon...


Hi Ryan, do you have a Logic template with mix settings available and if so on which site?? thanks


----------



## szczaw

Jdiggity1 said:


> I'm flattered you think my piece was made by the one and only Benny O. But I'm afraid that one was little ol' me.
> Normally I'm happy to stay anonymous and unknown, but I wouldn't want @bennyoschmann or @Rtomproductions to be attributed with my sloppy orchestrations.


I think it's great ! If I used Cubase I would buy it.


----------



## Rtomproductions

eromain said:


> Hi Ryan, do you have a Logic template with mix settings available and if so on which site?? thanks


I do, but the template is still using the Play engine. You can either wait until I have time to update the template, or you can replace the instances of Play with their Opus counterparts yourself as the session at least still has all the mix settings. That said, I'd wait; I'll probably end up making more changes than just switching out Play for Opus.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

from_theashes said:


> I just subscribed to Composer Cloud X a couple of days ago (after owning the Play Versions of Brass and Percussions) for full HO Opus. And wow!... I can load 200 instances of Opus simultaneously in seconds!!! This is absolutely incredible! Play was a pain to load and crashed my sessions a couple of times. With Opus? No hiccups, instant on and incredible sound! I'm on


nice - I'm finding Opus to be one of my better investments in a long while.


----------



## eromain

Rtomproductions said:


> I do, but the template is still using the Play engine. You can either wait until I have time to update the template, or you can replace the instances of Play with their Opus counterparts yourself as the session at least still has all the mix settings. That said, I'd wait; I'll probably end up making more changes than just switching out Play for Opus.


That would be great! As an interim where could I get the Play version?


----------



## alcorey

eromain said:


> That would be great! As an interim where could I get the Play version?


You can get it here









Store - Synthestration


Products Archive - Synthestration




synthestration.com


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Does the OPUS version of H. Orch. Diamond have additional new sample content for the Percussion, and Brass when compared to the PLAY versions ?


----------



## cqd

They could have done more with the percussion imo..


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> They could have done more with the percussion imo..


So, nothing new was added, or improved in OPUS Percussion ?


----------



## cqd

muziksculp said:


> So, nothing new was added, or improved in OPUS Percussion ?


Not particularly..Even a couple of extra kits/combinations would do, but it's pretty much the exact same.. (although having said that, it does just sit right too)..


----------



## Markrs

New EastWest tutorial serial with Ryan Thomas @Rtomproductions


----------



## RogiervG

Markrs said:


> New EastWest tutorial serial with Ryan Thomas @Rtomproductions



As i said in another post about this course:
Too bad it's not opus alone, which the title suggests.. but all kinds of libraries from the cloud offering. (so the title is misleading)
It also elimates those who only own opus (because you can only partially follow the course), and do not like subscribing to the cloud offering (for whatever reason).
Bad move..


----------



## Markrs

RogiervG said:


> As i said in another post about this course:
> Too bad it's not opus alone.. but all kinds of libraries from the cloud offering. (so the title of the video is wrong also, misleading)
> It also elimates those who only own opus (because you can only partially follow the course), and do not like subscribing to the cloud offering (for whatever reason).
> Bad move..


I imagine Hollywood Orchestra will be one of the main libraries they use. Plus you could probably replace the other libraries from CC that they use with ones you own. I would also say that many people have CCX and with so much on it, it will be great having tutorials for using it in a composition


----------



## RogiervG

Markrs said:


> I imagine Hollywood Orchestra will be I've of the main libraries they use. Plus you could probably replace they other libraries from CC that they use. I would also say that many people have CCX and with so much on it, it will be great having tutorials for using it in a composition



HOD users can follow along quite well, i imagine, since the majority of Opus is the same content. (although i suspect he will use the orchestrator, and the 18vlns, or the other new sounds included in opus), we'll see

As for susbstitutes and ccx:
And alot more don't have ccx  or proper substitutes (tone, fx, whatever) for the sounds not part of opus. Not everyone has a gazillion libs, of all kinds.

But for me it's about intent (drive more people to the cloud, not dedicated focus on opus as a new product), way of marketing (misleading video title:again not dedicated to opus at all), etc that bothers me seeing this video.
They should have made it like "Scoring with composer cloud", then i wouldn't have complained.. haha


----------



## szczaw

Eh, nitpicking.


----------



## Trash Panda

RogiervG said:


> HOD users can follow along quite well, i imagine, since the majority of Opus is the same content. (although i suspect he will use the orchestrator, and the 18vlns, or the other new sounds included in opus), we'll see
> 
> As for susbstitutes and ccx:
> And alot more don't have ccx  or proper substitutes (tone, fx, whatever) for the sounds not part of opus. Not everyone has a gazillion libs, of all kinds.
> 
> But for me it's about intent (drive more people to the cloud, not dedicated focus on opus as a new product), way of marketing (misleading video title:again not dedicated to opus at all), etc that bothers me seeing this video.
> They should have made it like "Scoring with composer cloud", then i wouldn't have complained.. haha


But it says Scoring with Opus (their new player), not scoring with Hollywood Orchestra Opus…


----------



## Rtomproductions

RogiervG said:


> As i said in another post about this course:
> Too bad it's not opus alone, which the title suggests.. but all kinds of libraries from the cloud offering. (so the title is misleading)
> It also elimates those who only own opus (because you can only partially follow the course), and do not like subscribing to the cloud offering (for whatever reason).
> Bad move..


It's actually not really even about HO Opus per se; it's more about scoring theory in general, but we happen to be using HO/CC instruments. And while I love HO Opus, it'd be tough to score the variety of scenes we have planned with a purely orchestral palette (and it's just not realistic tbh). So even if you don't have CC, you should (hopefully) be able to enjoy the new series


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

Rtomproductions said:


> It's actually not really even about HO Opus per se; it's more about scoring theory in general, but we happen to be using HO/CC instruments. And while I love HO Opus, it'd be tough to score the variety of scenes we have planned with a purely orchestral palette (and it's just not realistic tbh). So even if you don't have CC, you should (hopefully) be able to enjoy the new series


Looking forward to it!


----------



## Jdiggity1

I think there is some confusion over what "OPUS" actually is. 
As @Trash Panda rightly points out, OPUS is the name of their new *plugin*, not a specific library. Think of it as a new version of their PLAY engine. 
ie. OPUS does not exclusively refer to the "Hollywood Orchestra OPUS edition".


----------



## Tremendouz

I bit the bullet finally and I'm liking OPUS a lot more than PLAY but it still seems a bit buggy. Sometimes an instrument just stops making any sound and I have to remove and re-add the instrument.


----------



## yellow_lupine

Sorry if this has already been asked, but did they remove any of the strings articulations?
I can't find neither the fast and smooth legatos (Leg Port Fast Ni, Leg Slur SM Ni...), nor the marcato legatos (Marc Leg Port, Marc Leg Slur...) and I can't no longer choose between tight/loose shorts


----------



## gohrev

Whelp.. just had Cubase crash on me, and now *all* Opus instruments are gone. They are still installed on my hard drive, but whenever I activate an instrument in my template, say Timpani, the Opus engine comes up *empty*.

Update 1: Tried to add a new instrument, results in a "JSON parse error".
Update 2: Reinstalling both Play and Opus didn't solve anything


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

gohrev said:


> Whelp.. just had Cubase crash on me, and now *all* Opus instruments are gone. They are still installed on my hard drive, but whenever I activate an instrument in my template, say Timpani, the Opus engine comes up *empty*.
> 
> Update 1: Tried to add a new instrument, results in a "JSON parse error".
> Update 2: Reinstalling both Play and Opus didn't solve anything


in case you haven't already. send an email to support.

they are very good at responding.


----------



## gohrev

Zoot_Rollo said:


> in case you haven't already. send an email to support.
> 
> they are very good at responding.


Done two hours ago and hoping for a solution. I have hundreds of instruments in my template.. :-/ Fingers crossed!


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

gohrev said:


> Update 1: Tried to add a new instrument, results in a "JSON parse error".


a quick google revealed:

"The best way to catch invalid JSON parsing errors is to *put the calls to JSON*. parse() to a try/catch block."

do you know JSON's number?



word has it JSON programmed N.


----------



## gohrev

Zoot_Rollo said:


> a quick google revealed:
> 
> "The best way to catch invalid JSON parsing errors is to *put the calls to JSON*. parse() to a try/catch block."
> 
> do you know JSON's number?
> 
> 
> 
> word has it JSON programmed N.


Haha thanks for the laugh

The funny thing is, all is working again as of 5 minutes ago. This makes me believe it was something on EW's server end.

It also makes me reconsider working with Cloud-based VSTs....


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

gohrev said:


> Haha thanks for the laugh
> 
> The funny thing is, all is working again as of 5 minutes ago. This makes me believe it was something on EW's server end.
> 
> It also makes me reconsider working with Cloud-based VSTs....


ahhh, you are Cloud based - interesting.

glad it's up and running.

with the big sale and the upcoming Opus broadcast, I wouldn't be surprised if their servers are stretched.


----------



## cqd

Zoot_Rollo said:


> ahhh, you are Cloud based - interesting.
> 
> glad it's up and running.
> 
> with the big sale and the upcoming Opus broadcast, I wouldn't be surprised if their servers are stretched.


Upcoming Opus broadcast?..


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

cqd said:


> Upcoming Opus broadcast?..


----------



## cqd

Oh..I hadn't got around to watching that and presumed it was the first full video..
Did I see someone say unless you're a cc subscriber you won't see them all?..


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

cqd said:


> Oh..I hadn't got around to watching that and presumed it was the first full video..
> Did I see someone say unless you're a cc subscriber you won't see them all?..


hadn't heard that - it's on the EW Youtube channel.

unless they have a sub-only channel.


----------



## Question-Guy

The videos will be free. It on YouTube. And it will be good promo for people to buy the Opus Edition. 

I did found some bugs, but I sent them always to EW Support. They add them to their bucket list. Opus is great and with some more improvements it will be a really good tool for everyday work.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Zoot_Rollo

muziksculp said:


>


----------



## BassClef

So... how long before we see someone come up with his own orchestrations for Opus Orchestrator and sell them, just like synth presets?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

BassClef said:


> So... how long before we see someone come up with his own orchestrations for Opus Orchestrator and sell them, just like synth presets?


i want the Thomas Newman pack!

BF!


----------



## cqd

BassClef said:


> So... how long before we see someone come up with his own orchestrations for Opus Orchestrator and sell them, just like synth presets?


Let's not be so cynical..
Let's start a thread where we share them freely..


----------



## Dex

Probably never, if The Orchestra is anything to go on.


----------



## Leandro Marcos

yellow_lupine said:


> Sorry if this has already been asked, but did they remove any of the strings articulations?
> I can't find neither the fast and smooth legatos (Leg Port Fast Ni, Leg Slur SM Ni...), nor the marcato legatos (Marc Leg Port, Marc Leg Slur...) and I can't no longer choose between tight/loose shorts


I'm interested to know this as well. Anyone? Thanks!


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

Leandro Marcos said:


> I'm interested to know this as well. Anyone? Thanks!



haven't seen an answer yet.

you could ask EW support.


----------



## Jay Panikkar

muziksculp said:


>



Isn't that the presenter from 8Dio? I think he does a good job of it.

This looks like it'll be a good series for those getting started with virtual instruments, especially EastWest products. I'm genuinely surprised to see EW of all companies putting out content that's actually useful, instead of the usual half-arsed bullshit.

Had this series been around 4 years ago when I was getting into EW products, it would have cushioned the learning curve for sure.


----------



## cqd

Leandro Marcos said:


> I'm interested to know this as well. Anyone? Thanks!


For the different legatos anyway, there's a legato time cc value that might switch between them?..


----------



## muziksculp

yellow_lupine said:


> no longer choose between tight/loose shorts


I'm not experienced with the PLAY version, never used it. So, what's the difference between tight and loose shorts ? I think the new OPUS shorts are controlled via the Modwheel, and are more customizable, not just two options like before. or is that not the case ?


----------



## EgM

muziksculp said:


> I'm not experienced with the PLAY version, never used it. So, what's the difference between tight and loose shorts ? I think the new OPUS shorts are controlled via the Modwheel, and are more customizable, not just two options like before. or is that not the case ?


Tight has the beginning of the sample cut/trimmed so that it starts earlier, loose is realistic, more bow attack. Mainly for fast ostinato and such.


----------



## cqd

ka00 said:


> This thread needs its own forum.
> 
> Any pages of this behemoth you recommend I read?


You can skip page 240..


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

cqd said:


> You can skip page 240..


agreed, do NOT look at page 240.


----------



## handz

I have noticed that HOOE is on sale now...

The problem is, I only own HS HW and HB Gold (I bought it bundled with SD 2, Gypsy and MoR back in the day, percussions were not available then) So, I cant really upgrade to HOOE, is it solvable - anyone had such issue?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

handz said:


> I have noticed that HOOE is on sale now...
> 
> The problem is, I only own HS HW and HB Gold (I bought it bundled with SD 2, Gypsy and MoR back in the day, percussions were not available then) So, I cant really upgrade to HOOE, is it solvable - anyone had such issue?


there have been reports of upgrades with less than full HWO - contact support, they'll let you know if you can upgrade for $295, with maybe some change.


----------



## BreakBeatDJ

I’m new to VI (but not to composition), and am wondering if $595 for EWHO Opus is a good deal and I should buy now? Or, does EW often have sales and there is no rush? Will BF be just as good or better? I don’t need it right now (I will eventually), but have no idea if this is THE opportunity to buy this library, or if waiting is okay. Thanks.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

BreakBeatDJ said:


> I’m new to VI (but not to composition), and am wondering if $595 for EWHO Opus is a good deal and I should buy now? Or, does EW often have sales and there is no rush? Will BF be just as good or better? I don’t need it right now (I will eventually), but have no idea if this is THE opportunity to buy this library, or if waiting is okay. Thanks.


For $595 - with updated libraries, solo instruments included, new playback engine, built in orchestrator, etc. it is the best deal it has ever been, imo.

you need to decide if this style of sample library quits your needs. 

I've noticed with East West, though, it never hurts to wait.


----------



## alcorey

BreakBeatDJ said:


> I’m new to VI (but not to composition), and am wondering if $595 for EWHO Opus is a good deal and I should buy now? Or, does EW often have sales and there is no rush? Will BF be just as good or better? I don’t need it right now (I will eventually), but have no idea if this is THE opportunity to buy this library, or if waiting is okay. Thanks.


My opinion only as a CC+ user - It launched in April and had a pre-sale and initial sale for approx a month or so - now (September) it is already on sale for lower than the opening sale price.
I think it's a bid to capture consumer pre-BF dollars before they get spent elsewhere.
Now... when BF comes there will be a LOT of companies competing for limited dollars and the offerings will have to be VERY GOOD to be the successful captor of as many dollars as possible - so my guess would be that they will have a better price during BF to try to sway those who have not already climbed aboard...to finally give in

Again - that's just my feelings - nothing concrete to base it upon..... Good luck, and you will enjoy it


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

alcorey said:


> My opinion only as a CC+ user - It launched in April and had a pre-sale and initial sale for approx a month or so - now (September) it is already on sale for lower than the opening sale price.
> I think it's a bid to capture consumer pre-BF dollars before they get spent elsewhere.
> Now... when BF comes there will be a LOT of companies competing for limited dollars and the offerings will have to be VERY GOOD to be the successful captor of as many dollars as possible - so my guess would be that they will have a better price during BF to try to sway those who have not already climbed aboard...to finally give in
> 
> Again - that's just my feelings - nothing concrete to base it upon..... Good luck, and you will enjoy it


that is exactly the timing when I bought Hollywood Diamond a few years ago.

just before BF.

the Play engine was not enjoyable - but i'm glad i kept it installed.

Opus has been great!


----------



## Markrs

At some point they will almost certainly do a 60% off deal on Hollywood Orchestra Opus. However whether they do that for BF is debatable. My instinct is they will simply repeat the current offer for BF and the same for new year sales, with the first 60% sale hiting next year. I could be wrong though as it is a competitive market.


----------



## odod

Markrs said:


> At some point they will almost certainly do a 60% off deal on Hollywood Orchestra Opus. However whether they do that for BF is debatable. My instinct is they will simply repeat the current offer for BF and the same for new year sales, with the first 60% sale hiting next year. I could be wrong though as it is a competitive market.


i agree w you, EW seems always repeat the offer almost every month i guess hahhaha


----------



## almo

Sure, you can.. I owned only HS diamond and I upgraded to opus diamond for 295 dollar.. that’s an amazing Deal


----------



## MitchStarfield

Hey guys, after upgrading from OPUS GOLD to OPUS DIAMOND I can only play the single GOLD-Libraries, but not the Orchestrator. Orchestrator-Presets are not loadable. SELECT do not load anything! 
Single Instruments (GOLD) of all 7 installed Libraries working fine. 

Currently I've got only installed the normal GOLD-Edition with 131 GB on my Mac Pro 2019 and not the XXL-Files with more than 900 GB because of not enough space on my M2SSDs (I have to upgrade them)

On my iLok I've got different licenses activated:
- EW Opus
- EW Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition Gold
- EW Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition

My Plan was to upgrade the Software, do not download it and buy another M2SSD in a few weeks (better Internet-Connection...)
Any ideas??


----------



## handz

MitchStarfield said:


> Hey guys, after upgrading from OPUS GOLD to OPUS DIAMOND I can only play the single GOLD-Libraries, but not the Orchestrator. Orchestrator-Presets are not loadable. SELECT do not load anything!
> Single Instruments (GOLD) of all 7 installed Libraries working fine.
> 
> Currently I've got only installed the normal GOLD-Edition with 131 GB on my Mac Pro 2019 and not the XXL-Files with more than 900 GB because of not enough space on my M2SSDs (I have to upgrade them)
> 
> On my iLok I've got different licenses activated:
> - EW Opus
> - EW Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition Gold
> - EW Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition
> 
> My Plan was to upgrade the Software, do not download it and buy another M2SSD in a few weeks (better Internet-Connection...)
> Any ideas??


This seems like a question for the support. The orchestrator should work with both versions (at least I hope)


----------



## MitchStarfield

handz said:


> This seems like a question for the support. The orchestrator should work with both versions (at least I hope)


I wrote twice to the support, opened a ticket and got the normal answer: Please install all 7 Libraries... No response after re-open the Ticket...


----------



## dzilizzi

Technically, for an upgrade, you give up your old license and get a new one. Check your iLok account.


----------



## MitchStarfield

dzilizzi said:


> Technically, for an upgrade, you give up your old license and get a new one. Check your iLok account.


yesss ... I know, but:
On my iLok I've got different licenses activated:
- EW Opus
- EW Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition Gold
- EW Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition


----------



## dzilizzi

MitchStarfield said:


> yesss ... I know, but:
> On my iLok I've got different licenses activated:
> - EW Opus
> - EW Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition Gold
> - EW Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition


If iLok shows you have a license, it should work. You may need to reinstall it. And? Opus Gold and Opus Diamond may not be able to work on the same computer at the same time? I don't know for sure. Reinstall just means you have to repoint the libraries in the installer.


----------



## RogiervG

Zoot_Rollo said:


> For $595 - with updated libraries, solo instruments included, new playback engine, built in orchestrator, etc. it is the best deal it has ever been, imo.
> 
> you need to decide if this style of sample library quits your needs.
> 
> I've noticed with East West, though, it never hurts to wait.


but the woodwinds... ugh.. why didn't they fix those... 
brass is good, percussion is good, strings is good.. but woods... mediocre


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

RogiervG said:


> but the woodwinds... ugh.. why didn't they fix those...
> brass is good, percussion is good, strings is good.. but woods... mediocre


i'm not an expert with the winds, but

from the MusicTech review:

"Previously, the woodwinds section was an undeniable weakness in the Hollywood Orchestra library. A great deal of work has gone into rectifying this and, across the entire Opus edition, it’s in the woodwinds that you’ll hear the biggest improvements.

The sound quality is undeniably better and, crucially, there are now woodwind ensemble patches – a notable omission from the old edition. These new ensembles, consisting of three flutes, three clarinets, and three bassoons, bring EastWest much closer to the competition’s sound quality. Once again, the new legato mode makes the whole section feel much more satisfying to play."

you disagree?


----------



## RogiervG

Zoot_Rollo said:


> i'm not an expert with the winds, but
> 
> from the MusicTech review:
> 
> "Previously, the woodwinds section was an undeniable weakness in the Hollywood Orchestra library. A great deal of work has gone into rectifying this and, across the entire Opus edition, it’s in the woodwinds that you’ll hear the biggest improvements.
> 
> The sound quality is undeniably better and, crucially, there are now woodwind ensemble patches – a notable omission from the old edition. These new ensembles, consisting of three flutes, three clarinets, and three bassoons, bring EastWest much closer to the competition’s sound quality. Once again, the new legato mode makes the whole section feel much more satisfying to play."
> 
> you disagree?


yes, i disagree.. I am not talking about these new ensemble recordings, i'm talking about the old patches from Hollywood orchestra play-engine version. They are there too, for solo instruments. (not for exposed solo per se).
i've heard many walkthroughs already on the HO Opus sounds in isolation. And it's not good. At many times when changing notes in a legato fashion, you hear two samples at once (like it's a2 playing), also wonky dynamics. this is especially audible with the clarinets and the oboe. It's exactly the same problem as the old play-engine one has (which i have), so no improvements in that area

You can do some tricks to make it sound better (there are examples on the web, that demo that), but it's not very easy, unlike other libs.


----------



## Tremendouz

RogiervG said:


> but the woodwinds... ugh.. why didn't they fix those...
> brass is good, percussion is good, strings is good.. but woods... mediocre


I agree. I compared the solo flute to CSW the other day and I was amazed just how lifeless Hollywood sounded in comparison. I know it's a decade old library but the strings and brass are still great.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

RogiervG said:


> yes, i disagree.. I am not talking about these new ensemble recordings, i'm talking about the old patches from Hollywood orchestra play-engine version. They are there too, for solo instruments. (not for exposed solo per se).
> i've heard many walkthroughs already on the HO Opus sounds in isolation. And it's not good. At many times when changing notes in a legato fashion, you hear two samples at once (like it's a2 playing), also wonky dynamics. this is especially audible with the clarinets and the oboe. It's exactly the same problem as the old play-engine one has (which i have), so no improvements in that area
> 
> You can do some tricks to make it sound better (there are examples on the web, that demo that), but it's not very easy, unlike other libs.


you mean it's not perfect?






at least you can route to other instruments in Orchestrator.


----------



## szczaw

Perfect, it is not. Fortunately, there are alternatives, such as CineSymphony COMPLETE Bundle for $4,499.


----------



## alcorey

Or this one on sale at 34% off!!


----------



## acreich

I want to ask a question concerning the place where HO is stored. The product description suggests to have an SSD drive. I have a quite large internal drive where I keep my VSTs, but it is not an SSD drive (which would be much more expensive in that size, much more than HO currently on sale itself). For other VSTs this seems to be fine.
I searched through this thread and most people seem to buy an external 2 TB SSD for HO. I am wondering if someone has other experiences. To my understanding internal and external drives have different speeds too? Is the SSD drive suggestion meant for the case of an external drive, or does this not change the situation, internal or external, it must be SSD?


----------



## Rtomproductions

acreich said:


> I want to ask a question concerning the place where HO is stored. The product description suggests to have an SSD drive. I have a quite large internal drive where I keep my VSTs, but it is not an SSD drive (which would be much more expensive in that size, much more than HO currently on sale itself). For other VSTs this seems to be fine.
> I searched through this thread and most people seem to buy an external 2 GB SSD for HO. I am wondering if someone has other experiences. To my understanding internal and external drives have different speeds too? Is the SSD drive suggestion meant for the case of an external drive, or does this not change the situation, internal or external, it must be SSD?


Internal or external sample drives should all be SSD's--no matter the sample library. There's enough that can go wrong with DAW's, 3rd party plugin integration, and hardware as it is, so you want to minimize possible points of failure whenever possible.

You can get a 2TB external for under $250. You can also find a variety of external bays that work well, and can be populated for very cheap. Even though most of my SSD's are now internal PCIe M.2's, I still run an old Akitio drive bay with 1st gen SATA III SSD's that I used to run on my old Mac Pro for Dropbox file/export hosting and it does fine. But yeah, I wouldn't consider a spin-up drive to be a viable option for much of anything these days unfortunately.


----------



## RogiervG

Zoot_Rollo said:


> you mean it's not perfect?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at least you can route to other instruments in Orchestrator.


Well, i get the jokes following your comment (and yes i too find them funny in context!).. however, it's the EW samples, what we are talking about (no need for bringing in competitors), and they are old.. and they never fixed it at all. not even attempted. And that is why it's not good. The tone is there at times, the programming is defo not.
HO Opus is for the majority reshashing the same patches from HO Play version, without good fixing up, in a different wrapper. And that is a red flag for me. The price should reflect that imho. (i am talking about the non sale pricing)
Also the orchestrator is a bonus/gimmick thing for many, not a needed thing.
I would not use the orchestrator often, if i had it. I like to do things my way, orchestration wise.
Each to their own, if you happen to find help in it, sure by all means, use it.  (no verdict on quality on it from me)


----------



## acreich

Rtomproductions said:


> Internal or external sample drives should all be SSD's--no matter the sample library. There's enough that can go wrong with DAW's, 3rd party plugin integration, and hardware as it is, so you want to minimize possible points of failure whenever possible.
> 
> You can get a 2TB external for under $250. You can also find a variety of external bays that work well, and can be populated for very cheap. Even though most of my SSD's are now internal PCIe M.2's, I still run an old Akitio drive bay with 1st gen SATA III SSD's that I used to run on my old Mac Pro for Dropbox file/export hosting and it does fine. But yeah, I wouldn't consider a spin-up drive to be a viable option for much of anything these days unfortunately.


I see. Thanks ...


----------



## handz

I 


RogiervG said:


> but the woodwinds... ugh.. why didn't they fix those...
> brass is good, percussion is good, strings is good.. but woods... mediocre


never fully understood this - they were wonky after release but lots of things were fixed. I really liked the tone of them and there was a huge variety of instruments. 


SADLY 

they removed the old pages for HB HS and HW - what a shame, those demos were amazing, I have some saved on old HDD but I would love to have them all, does anyone have a backup of the demos?

(and btw that idea with new demo pieces with knobs and various stems is fine.... but its also horrible, it lags on most things I try it and you cant save it for listening)


----------



## handz

RogiervG said:


> Well, i get the jokes following your comment (and yes i too find them funny in context!).. however, it's the EW samples, what we are talking about (no need for bringing in competitors), and they are old.. and they never fixed it at all. not even attempted. And that is why it's not good. The tone is there at times, the programming is defo not.
> HO Opus is for the majority reshashing the same patches, without good fixing up, in a different wrapper. And that is a red flag for me. The price should reflect that imho. (i am talking about the non sale pricing)
> Also the orchestrator is a bonus/gimmick thing for many, not a needed thing.
> I would not use the orchestrator often, if i had it. I like to do things my way, orchestration wise.
> Each to their own, if you happen to find help in it, sure by all means, use it.  (no verdict on quality on it from me)


Whoa, so they not reprogrammed the old patches? I thought that they did :-/


----------



## RogiervG

handz said:


> I
> 
> never fully understood this - they were wonky after release but lots of things were fixed. I really liked the tone of them and there was a huge variety of instruments.


Well, they did not fix it in my book (the fixes they did, i don't hear, to put it in another way). Same old issues still exists after like 10-ish years.
Still the same legato issues, still the wonky dynamics on several wood instruments.
Even listening to the waltkrhoughs of the opus version i hear them. In a orchestration (with other instruments) they sound ok, but exposed, solo, they are not good.


----------



## dzilizzi

acreich said:


> I want to ask a question concerning the place where HO is stored. The product description suggests to have an SSD drive. I have a quite large internal drive where I keep my VSTs, but it is not an SSD drive (which would be much more expensive in that size, much more than HO currently on sale itself). For other VSTs this seems to be fine.
> I searched through this thread and most people seem to buy an external 2 TB SSD for HO. I am wondering if someone has other experiences. To my understanding internal and external drives have different speeds too? Is the SSD drive suggestion meant for the case of an external drive, or does this not change the situation, internal or external, it must be SSD?


I have been a poor student and now have some money to spend on these things, so I understand your position. My recommendation, if you can't yet afford SSD's (keep an eye out during BF/Cyber Monday), try to split the sections up over multiple drives, if possible, to combat the spinning drives slower speed. Having everything on a single line coming in to the DAW will overwhelm the system. You will generally need a bigger buffer size to help, so there will be latency. As you find them on sale, buy internal SSD drives. You can put them in cases for anywhere from $10 to $20. Make sure you get USB 3 connections. The combo of internal drive and enclosure is usually cheaper than buying already made external SSDs. Of course, if you have room in your computer, it is better to just use them internally. 

The reason people buy a 2 TB drive for HO is because it is just over 1TB in size and a 1TB SSD is just under 1TB due to the weird bit/byte conversion thing that goes on between OS manufacturers and hardware manufacturers. I have mine split across 2 1TB drives.


----------



## ChristianM

alcorey said:


> Ou celui-ci en solde à 34% de rabais !!


LOL


----------



## BassClef

I was having trouble disarming reverb in Opus Orchestrator patches. I just spoke with EW and was advised that Orchestrator patches CAN NOT have the reverb turned off via the "load without effects" parameter in preferences. Also when you turn reverb off for each instrument in an Opus patch, save the project then reload the project, the reverb is BACK ON again. This is under review by the developers. Until this is addressed, use the MASTER button on the first instrument in an Orchestrator patch which will load ONLY ONE instance of the reverb for the entire patch, rather than one for each instrument. This will help a lot with system resources, but not allow you to adjust individual reverb levels for the different instruments inside that orchestrator patch.


----------



## szczaw

I don't know why orchestrator instruments don't respond to midi just like regular instruments. Only one midi channel is needed to trigger the ensemble. The rest of channels could be used to trigger instruments in a normal way.


----------



## BassClef

OK... another question about HWO Opus.

Most of my libraries (like Cinematic Studios) use cc1 as modulation which controls dynamics. (increasing volume as it goes through the libraries recorded dynamic layers. HWO seems to use cc11 for this, but they call it "expression" where expression in my other libraries is just volume. Does HWO cc11 actually go through the instrument's dynamic layers or ONLY volume? If so, I can just reassign that parameter they call "expression" to cc1 so it operate like my other libraries.


----------



## Dex

BassClef said:


> I was having trouble disarming reverb in Opus Orchestrator patches. I just spoke with EW and was advised that Orchestrator patches CAN NOT have the reverb turned off via the "load without effects" parameter in preferences. Also when you turn reverb off for each instrument in an Opus patch, save the project then reload the project, the reverb is BACK ON again. This is under review by the developers. Until this is addressed, use the MASTER button on the first instrument in an Orchestrator patch which will load ONLY ONE instance of the reverb for the entire patch, rather than one for each instrument. This will help a lot with system resources, but not allow you to adjust individual reverb levels for the different instruments inside that orchestrator patch.


Oh hey it’s just like in Play 6, where if you save a project with a legato patch with reverb turned off, the next time you open the project, the reverb in that patch will be back on. 

And of course, there’s no way to turn the reverb back off with a cc message or with automation, so every time you reload your project, you have to manually open every instance of Play in your project and turn off the reverb, one by one. I figure this will never be fixed, since they’re pushing the opus player now.


----------



## Dex

BassClef said:


> OK... another question about HWO Opus.
> 
> Most of my libraries (like Cinematic Studios) use cc1 as modulation which controls dynamics. (increasing volume as it goes through the libraries recorded dynamic layers. HWO seems to use cc11 for this, but they call it "expression" where expression in my other libraries is just volume. Does HWO cc11 actually go through the instrument's dynamic layers or ONLY volume? If so, I can just reassign that parameter they call "expression" to cc1 so it operate like my other libraries.


It goes through the instruments dynamic layers. It’s how you access the dynamic layers in string long patches.


----------



## Petrucci

Dex said:


> Oh hey it’s just like in Play 6, where if you save a project with a legato patch with reverb turned off, the next time you open the project, the reverb in that patch will be back on.
> 
> And of course, there’s no way to turn the reverb back off with a cc message or with automation, so every time you reload your project, you have to manually open every instance of Play in your project and turn off the reverb, one by one. I figure this will never be fixed, since they’re pushing the opus player now.


That's strange - I turned reverb off in Play and it stayed like that all the time cause I used sends to Spaces 2..!


----------



## acreich

Another question for these who own EW Hollywood Orchestra Orchestrator and Sonuscore's The Orchestra: The idea sounds quite similar.
The HO samples are probably a bit larger (and better?), and the HO Orchestrator seems to load more instruments at once, which probably could be made up for with loading two instances of The Orchestra plugin. 
If you own both, can you compare the differences?


----------



## BassClef

Petrucci said:


> That's strange - I turned reverb off in Play and it stayed like that all the time cause I used sends to Spaces 2..!


This problem is not with the regular Hollywood Orchestra patches in Opus, but only those multi patches in Opus Orchestrator. There is no problem turning off reverb in the regular HO instruments for routing to aux reverb channels.


----------



## Petrucci

BassClef said:


> This problem is not with the regular Hollywood Orchestra patches in Opus, but only those multi patches in Opus Orchestrator. There is no problem turning off reverb in the regular HO instruments for routing to aux reverb channels.


I actually meant that I hadn't noticed this strange behaviour in Play during my work with it like Dex observed.


----------



## dzilizzi

acreich said:


> Another question for these who own EW Hollywood Orchestra Orchestrator and Sonuscore's The Orchestra: The idea sounds quite similar.
> The HO samples are probably a bit larger (and better?), and the HO Orchestrator seems to load more instruments at once, which probably could be made up for with loading two instances of The Orchestra plugin.
> If you own both, can you compare the differences?


Do you already have The Orchestra? I was disappointed with the basic library. It can get synthy sounding very quickly. Sample-wise, EWHO is so much better. And there are too many articulations, frankly, but having the options is great. As far as the Orchestrator goes, you can only choose minimal options on what each sound can do in TO or some great presets. I think there are 5 or 6 choices. In OPUS, you can select one of many presets that offer more options or you can adjust each with options that aren't available in TO's engine, like an arpeggiator. Plus you can set the notes each instrument will play - top, bottom, middle, middle two, which allows you to play melodies with one while the other 2 or 3 stay static. TO is just a pad basically. OPUS Orchestrator can write full music.


----------



## Dex

Petrucci said:


> I actually meant that I hadn't noticed this strange behaviour in Play during my work with it like Dex observed.


Sorry, I was a little off in my description of how to trigger the issue.

Load a string SUS (not legato) strings patch in HO in Play. Then click "legato" to turn on legato mode. The reverb will also turn on automatically. Turn the reverb off and save your project. 

When you reload the project, the reverb will be back on.


----------



## Petrucci

Dex said:


> Sorry, I was a little off in my description of how to trigger the issue.
> 
> Load a string SUS (not legato) strings patch in HO in Play. Then click "legato" to turn on legato mode. The reverb will also turn on automatically. Turn the reverb off and save your project.
> 
> When you reload the project, the reverb will be back on.


Oh, I see, never done such things with HO))


----------



## Fleer

dzilizzi said:


> The reason people buy a 2 TB drive for HO is because it is just over 1TB in size and a 1TB SSD is just under 1TB due to the weird bit/byte conversion thing that goes on between OS manufacturers and hardware manufacturers. I have mine split across 2 1TB drives.


Actually this thread seems to suggest an 1TB SSD may suffice:





Additional space requirement for Opus Hollywood?


I already have Hollywood Diamond Strings, Brass, Winds, and Percussion installed. Anyone know how much additional space I would need to upgrade to Opus?




vi-control.net


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Fleer said:


> Actually this thread seems to suggest an 1TB SSD may suffice:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Additional space requirement for Opus Hollywood?
> 
> 
> I already have Hollywood Diamond Strings, Brass, Winds, and Percussion installed. Anyone know how much additional space I would need to upgrade to Opus?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net


I have it on a 1TB SSD - disk size shows as 931GB and has 53.3GB free 👍🏻


----------



## Geomir

Lewis Emblack said:


> I have it on a 1TB SSD - disk size shows as 931GB and has 53.3GB free 👍🏻


But I read somewhere that the next Opus update is going to be 53.4GB! 

Seriously now, the only problem when you are so close to the limit, is when something like that happens (i.e. a big update), and then you need to re-arrange everything.

So, as @dzilizzi mentioned, 2TB can give you a better piece of mind with Opus. Especially with a company like EW, that takes weird decisions all the time. (I.e. you wake up one morning, and Gold Edition is no more!)


----------



## odod

anyone experiencing this too? 
my HDD is new SANDISK EXTREME 10mb/s ,, i am on MAC and it is APFS format based on EW suggestion, and mostly happened with 2nd violin harmonics only


----------



## Lewis Emblack

Geomir said:


> But I read somewhere that the next Opus update is going to be 53.4GB!
> 
> Seriously now, the only problem when you are so close to the limit, is when something like that happens (i.e. a big update), and then you need to re-arrange everything.
> 
> So, as @dzilizzi mentioned, 2TB can give you a better piece of mind with Opus. Especially with a company like EW, that takes weird decisions all the time. (I.e. you wake up one morning, and Gold Edition is no more!)


Really? Ah well, I have another 2TB of SSD and 2TB of HDD over 4 drives specifically for audio libraries (incl. the entire CC+), so will just move the solo instruments which I rarely touch somewhere else 🤷‍♂️ I'll probably have to condense things down at some point as currently have 10 drives + backups 🤣


----------



## handz

Honestly, If I was going to buy drive it would be 4TB for sure these are the best value for the money (and yes, larger drives are actually faster)


----------



## odod

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Just split the sections onto two drives or more. All problems solved


can you show me which section should i split, is it the samples or the instrument folder?


----------



## odod

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> You can split the library like this for example:
> 
> Drive 1: Strings, Woodwinds
> 
> Drive 2: Brass, Percussion
> 
> The folders you need to move are the main folder for each section. I think my main Strings folder is called ”Hollywood Strings Diamond”. That’s the one. It contains folders for both Samples and Instruments.
> 
> Similarly for the other sections (Brass, WW, Percussion)


unfortunately it does not solved the problem :( the problem persist only with 2nd violins harmonics patches .. :(


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

odod said:


> unfortunately it does not solved the problem :( the problem persist only with 2nd violins harmonics patches .. :(


You can try deleting the Strings folder and re-download it.


----------



## muziksculp

OK.. I finally began downloading EW-HOOPUS from scratch. 

I will also install SD3, and SD2. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Fleer

And here I was hoping you'd try to shoehorn HOOPUS into an 1TB ssd


----------



## alcorey

SD2 = Stormdrum 2, SD3 = Stormdrum 3


----------



## muziksculp

alcorey said:


> SD2 = Stormdrum 2, SD3 = Stormdrum 3


Yes, most likely will install on a separate SSD than the one HOOPUS is on.


----------



## muziksculp

Fleer said:


> And here I was hoping you'd try to shoehorn HOOPUS into an 1TB ssd


I'm Installing HOOPUS on a 2TB SSD.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I have the PLAY 5 installed (from a while back), but don't use it, there is a PLAY 6 update that I can install, but I was curious if I need to have PLAY 6 installed, now that I have OPUS Player ?

Thanks.


----------



## Macrawn

acreich said:


> Another question for these who own EW Hollywood Orchestra Orchestrator and Sonuscore's The Orchestra: The idea sounds quite similar.
> The HO samples are probably a bit larger (and better?), and the HO Orchestrator seems to load more instruments at once, which probably could be made up for with loading two instances of The Orchestra plugin.
> If you own both, can you compare the differences?


I think Dziizzi's assement on it is good.

The EW Hollwood Orchestrator has way better instrument sound. The Sonuscore samples are just weaker. I will say the presets Sonuscore has are really great. I think when I've used the Sonuscore one I've also layered in better sounding samples with it. I don't think you need to do that with the east west one.

I also think the East West orchestrator is easier to design your own presets. I like that you can export the midi and plug in the Opus sample and it will sound exactly as it is within the orchestrator. If you use midi export on the Sonuscore one, it takes some work to get the midi to work as well in a 3rd party library because you know all of the offsets are different and such. It often sounds just better inside of the Sonuscore Orchestra unless you have a ton time to tweak the exports. So with the East West one if you export the midi and plug in an Opus instrument is should be spot on. 

So I think the East West Orchestrator is considerably better. If you build your own presets in it you can make some very interesting sounds you wouldn't have gotten any other way. It's obsoleted the Sonuscore one for me. The only thing though is the Sonuscore one has a lot of nice creative expansions that give you different sounds. East West is kinda vanilla in that way.


----------



## cqd

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have the PLAY 5 installed (from a while back), but don't use it, there is a PLAY 6 update that I can install, but I was curious if I need to have PLAY 6 installed, now that I have OPUS Player ?
> 
> Thanks.


Not if you'll be running opus, but play 6 was a mile better than 5..


----------



## RogiervG

muziksculp said:


> OK.. I finally began downloading EW-HOOPUS from scratch.
> 
> I will also install SD3, and SD2.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


Aren't you downloading Hollywood strings diamond AND hollywood strings opus edition? if so, no need, only opus is needed.


----------



## muziksculp

So, I can use the OPUS Player to run Storm Drum 2, and Storm Drum 3, and some of their other libraries, i.e. RA ?


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> Not if you'll be running opus, but play 6 was a mile better than 5..


I would rather stick to using the new OPUS Player, and not bother with PLAY 6 if possible.


----------



## cqd

muziksculp said:


> So, I can use the OPUS Player to run Storm Drum 2, and Storm Drum 3, and some of their other libraries, i.e. RA ?


yeah..


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> yeah..


Awesome ! 

THANKS


----------



## odod

finally i got my own solution after seeing this document
thank you East West .. now i can enjoy making music peacefully


----------



## BassClef

Thanks odod.... just in case anyone listening is as dumb as I am and struggling... pushing the limits of my 32GB or ram on my 7 year old iMac... PURGE!

In my initial run through of the manual I misunderstood how this works in Opus. My first piece using HOdiamondOpus was mostly orchestrator patches totaling 83 loaded instruments and pushing up against my ram limit.

Turns out Opus keeps careful track of all samples actually used in each track and completely unloads all samples not used in that track, so PURGE on an instrument unloaded those not used in your track.

When loaded, this short piece I composed (in Logic) was using about 28GB ram. After purging all Opus tracks, the loaded Logic ram dropped to less than 6GB! (you can select "purge all instruments" or "purge all Opus instances" from the top of the left panel in a multi)

What's more amazing... how smart this is or how long it took me to get it?


----------



## odod

BassClef said:


> Thanks odod.... just incase anyone listening is as dumb as I am and struggling... pushing the limits of my 32GB or ram on my 7 year old iMac... PURGE!
> 
> In my initial run through of the manual I misunderstood how this works in Opus. My first piece using HOdiamondOpus was mostly orchestrator patches totaling 83 loaded instruments and pushing up against my ram limit.
> 
> Turns out Opus keeps careful track of all samples actually used in each track and completely unloads all samples not used in that track, so PURGE on an instrument unloaded those not used in your track.
> 
> When loaded, this short piece I composed (in Logic) was using about 28GB ram. After purging all Opus tracks, the loaded Logic ram dropped to less than 6GB! (you can select "purge all instruments" or "purge all Opus instances" from the top of the left panel in a multi)
> 
> What's more amazing... how smart this is or how long it took me to get it?


most welcome my friend, anyway OPUS is really a big game changer for my workflow now .. it is very intelligent app too


----------



## MitchStarfield

Together with the support team, I have found out the error with the EW OPUS Orchestrator and corrected it:

If you own the normal GOLD version and upgrade to the DIAMOND, all the content for the large version must also be installed. Both licenses are stored on the iLok-Account.

If you have activated both versions on the local ilok but only installed the small version, the orchestrator will no longer work because the license wants to address the content of the large version. 
Solution: 
a) install the full content (>1TB, needs a good internet-connection)
b) temporarily deactivate the Diamond licence in your ilok.
activate it after download the huge content...


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I finally installed EW-Hollywood Orchestra OPUS, and SD3 which I purchased recently.

I also installed some of the older EW Libraries I had purchased a while back, but rarely used which are : RA, Silk, Gypsy, Symph. Choirs, and SD2. I also have Goliath, but not sure if it is worth installing. 

Anything special that Goliath offers ? or should I not bother installing it, and save 40.5 GB of SSD space ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Fleer

Seems a perfect match for Hollywood Choirs


----------



## muziksculp

Fleer said:


> Seems a perfect match for Hollywood Choirs


How is that ? Any specifics that make Goliath a perfect match for the Choirs ?


----------



## Fleer

Oops, wasn't clear. I meant those 40 free gigs might be sufficient for some EW Choirs. Not Hollywood, but Symphonic.


----------



## muziksculp

Fleer said:


> Oops, wasn't clear. I meant those 40 free gigs might be sufficient for some EW Choirs. Not Hollywood, but Symphonic.


Thanks. 

I have installed Symphonic Choirs Platinum, I don't have Hollywood Choirs. Actually, I didn't even notice they are two different libraries. LOL.

So, what does Hollywood Choirs offer compared to Symphonic Choirs Plat. ?


----------



## Fleer

A better Word Builder and better sound as a whole BUT no boys choir and no SATB, which is why I hang onto both. On the other hand, if I would select a nice and sweet orchestral OPUS package from scratch, I'd go for Hollywood Orchestra, Hollywood Choirs and add Hollywood Backup Singers for good measure (as it also includes the updated Word Builder). And Spaces II of course. Always Spaces II.


----------



## muziksculp

Fleer said:


> A better Word Builder and better sound as a whole BUT no boys choir and no SATB, which is why I hang onto both. On the other hand, if I would select a nice and sweet orchestral OPUS package from scratch, I'd go for Hollywood Orchestra, Hollywood Choirs and add Hollywood Backup Singers for good measure (as it also includes the updated Word Builder). And Spaces II of course. Always Spaces II.


Hi @Fleer, 

OK. THANKS.  

I'm going to check Hollywood Choirs, not sure I need the Backup Singers, but will also check it out. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Fleer

To be honest, you don't need Backup Singers for orchestral templates, but those three ladies are so sweet. Vocally, of course. CC White is also in Voices of Soul and the two McBroom sisters are Pink Floyd royalty.


----------



## muziksculp

Ooooh I also didn't realize that Hollywood Choirs Diamond is *$499. * the reg. price is *$599*. 

Now I might not bother with this one, maybe an attractive discount on this library on BF will make it easier to buy. But not at this price.


----------



## Fleer

Absolutely. They will be 50% or maybe even 60% off soon enough


----------



## muziksculp

Fleer said:


> Absolutely. They will be 50% off soon enough


Yes. That's what I'm hoping for. 

THANKS !


----------



## rroc

muziksculp said:


> Anything special that Goliath offers ? or should I not bother installing it, and save 40.5 GB of SSD space ?


Goliath has a pretty decent church organ, if you're into that sort of thing...


----------



## rroc

I tried the Composer Cloud and then upgraded to HWO Diamond. I was a bit disappointed that I couldn't keep using Gold and had to install the significantly larger Diamond + replace all my instrument instances (it's not just an upgrad, it's a separate library) - and then it took me a long while to figure out why everything sounded slightly different - it's because Gold has the *Mid *mic position on by default, whereas Diamond has *Main *as the default. - mentioning this in case anyone goes the same path and wonders...

Also: Uninstall everything before your CC membership expires, because stuff just disappears from the EW installer and then you won't have any way to uninstall it. And if you can't uninstall it it will continue to show up in Opus (greyed out and not usable, eternally wasting space with no way to ever remove it - other than resubscribing to uninstall?)


----------



## Fleer

This is why I got Hoopus Gold as well as Diamond. They’re both very useful in their own right.


----------



## muziksculp

rroc said:


> Goliath has a pretty decent church organ, if you're into that sort of thing...


Hi @rroc,

Thanks for the tip. 

I already have a few good organs to use when needed. I think I will just save SSD space, and pass on installing it.


----------



## pluebellify

rroc said:


> I tried the Composer Cloud and then upgraded to HWO Diamond. I was a bit disappointed that I couldn't keep using Gold and had to install the significantly larger Diamond + replace all my instrument instances (it's not just an upgrad, it's a separate library) - and then it took me a long while to figure out why everything sounded slightly different - it's because Gold has the *Mid *mic position on by default, whereas Diamond has *Main *as the default. - mentioning this in case anyone goes the same path and wonders...
> 
> Also: Uninstall everything before your CC membership expires, because stuff just disappears from the EW installer and then you won't have any way to uninstall it. And if you can't uninstall it it will continue to show up in Opus (greyed out and not usable, eternally wasting space with no way to ever remove it - other than resubscribing to uninstall?)


You can manually delete the libraries you aren't using and then go to the ProductChunks folder
Win - C:\ProgramData\East West\ProductChunks
or 
Mac HD - /Library/Application Support/East West/ProductChunks/

and delete the .ewl files for any library you no longer have and it will stop showing up in the browser.


----------



## Trax

I have a problem with the OPUS violas. With other instruments I can set a tuning and then save the instrument as a new instrument (Celli Detache 2.oib eg). When I open this adjusted instrument the tuning is preserved. But with the violas, it always defaults back to zero. Can someone confirm that they have the same problem?


----------



## Aceituna

Markrs said:


> The $10 EDU subscription is just for CCX they don't do a EDU for CC Plus sadly. Personally CCX is amazing value for what you get, which is a huge amount of stuff, especially if you want instruments beyond just orchestral.


Is it still that way?


----------



## Markrs

Aceituna said:


> Is it still that way?


It is still the case that you can only get EDU with CCX.


----------



## Aceituna

Markrs said:


> The $10 EDU subscription is just for CCX


Does it include Opus?


----------



## Markrs

Aceituna said:


> Does it include Opus?


You get every East West library and all of them use Opus.


----------



## Aceituna

Markrs said:


> You get every East West library and all of them use Opus.


I mean EDU option?
Last year was different


----------



## Markrs

Aceituna said:


> I mean EDU option?
> Last year was different


The CCX EDU uses Opus.


----------



## Aceituna

Markrs said:


> The CCX EDU uses Opus.


Orchestrator in included?


----------



## Markrs

Aceituna said:


> Orchestrator in included?


Yes the Orchestrator is also included, as you get Hollywood Orchestra as part of CCX EDU, the only part that is limited is the moods option you get in Hollywood Orchestra as you don't get all the mic options. You normally get the Close and Mid mics.


----------



## Aceituna

Markrs said:


> Yes the Orchestrator is also included, as you get Hollywood Orchestra as part of CCX EDU, the only part that is limited is the moods option you get in Hollywood Orchestra as you don't get all the mic options. You normally get the Close and Mid mics.


I own HO Diamond.
I am considering $295 update because I thought Opus and Orchestrator was not included in $10 EDU subscription.
If so, I am going for subs cription option.
Thanks for your help.
Have a nice day.


----------



## Markrs

Aceituna said:


> I own HO Diamond.
> I am considering $295 update because I thought Opus and Orchestrator was not included in $10 EDU subscription.
> If so, I am going for subs cription option.
> Thanks for your help.
> Have a nice day.


It won't upgrade your Diamond, though. I believe the Opus that comes with the EDU CCX will only work with the GoldX. HO Diamond would still need Play.

As I have upgraded my HO Diamond, I can't test this, but this is how I believe it will work.


----------



## RogiervG

the important question is, are you willing to pay monthly/yearly for using the products? or are you wanting a one time investment, and use "forever" without ever needing to pay a dime for it anymore. Not trying to drive you away from subscriptions.. but a honest point for you to figure out. It's a calculation you need to do.
For me, the one time investment is cheaper than monthly paying year in and year out for several years. (and i do not need everyting from their catalog)
For you it might be different.

Ps (besides the subscription pro/con's to think about):
Also note that any commercial usage is forbidden with the EDU license. So once you finished your study (and start to work), your edu license becomes invalid, you need to convert to a commercial license.


----------



## Aceituna

RogiervG said:


> the important question is, are you willing to pay monthly/yearly for using the products? or are you wanting a one time investment, and use "forever" without ever needing to pay a dime for it anymore. Not trying to drive you away from subscriptions.. but a honest point for you to figure out. It's a calculation you need to do.
> For me, the one time investment is cheaper than monthly paying year in and year out for several years. (and i do not need everyting from their catalog)
> For you it might be different.
> 
> Ps (besides the subscription pro/con's to think about):
> Also note that any commercial usage is forbidden with the EDU license. So once you finished your study (and start to work), your edu license becomes invalid, you need to convert to a commercial license.


I appreciate your words.
When I read your answer, I had already subscribed to the EDU option (I have to say that with enough doubts).
After reading you, I contacted Eastwest and they have kindly agreed to cancel my subscription in order to upgrade.
Thanks again.


----------



## Aceituna

Markrs said:


> It won't upgrade your Diamond, though. I believe the Opus that comes with the EDU CCX will only work with the GoldX. HO Diamond would still need Play.
> 
> As I have upgraded my HO Diamond, I can't test this, but this is how I believe it will work.


By the way, to install Opus, should I delete the previous files I had from Diamond?
Because with the Eastwest Installer, to install for example Strings Opus Edition, I choose the directory in which I had Strings Diamond installed and it tells me Invalid Directory.


----------



## Markrs

Aceituna said:


> By the way, to install Opus, should I delete the previous files I had from Diamond?
> Because with the Eastwest Installer, to install for example Strings Opus Edition, I choose the directory in which I had Strings Diamond installed and it tells me Invalid Directory.


It should be installed in a empty folder, which can be different one to where Strings Diamond is installed. Sadly this done mean using up more space. The other option is you can uninstall the diamond version and delete the folder, but of course you will then not be able to use the Diamond version untill you reinstall it.


----------



## Aceituna

Markrs said:


> It should be installed in a empty folder, which can be different one to where Strings Diamond is installed. Sadly this done mean using up more space. The other option is you can uninstall the diamond version and delete the folder, but of course you will then not be able to use the Diamond version untill you reinstall it.


Considering both options, which is better, to have them all together or in separate directories?
What do you usually do?


----------



## Markrs

Aceituna said:


> Considering both options, which is better, to have them all together or in separate directories?
> What do you usually do?


I just have one folder, each library is automatically a sub folder when they get installed, but if you need more space on a particular drive you can just move them and repoint to the new location via the installation centre app.


----------



## Trax

Does anyone know how I can input or retrieve a numerical value for any of these controls, like Volume, or the microphone levels?


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I was just beginning to test HOOPUS this morning, and when I tried to load any instrument from SD2, SD3, Silk, RA, the OPUS player would crash my DAW.

The OPUS edition Hollywood Orchestra Brass, Perc, Woodwinds, and Strings, plus the solo strings, and Harp work fine in OPUS player, but not the other older libraries I mentioned.

When using OPUS player, I select i.e. SD3, and click on an instrument in the browser it plays the demo clip, but when I click ADD it crashes my DAW (Studio One Pro 5.4 / Windows 10).

I guess I will just have to use PLAY 6 to use these older libraries. Although I have been told they should work fine in OPUS, but that's not the case here.

Anyone know if I need to tweak a setting in OPUS, or anything else that will allow these older EW Libraries to work in OPUS Player ? I have setup OPUS to use SSD drives in the Pref. but not sure if some other settings need to be set for these libraries to work in OPUS.

I also checked if they needed to be updated, but no updates were available. All libraries are the latest versions. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I contacted EW-Support via their Chat messaging, and got instructions to sort this issue, following their step-by-step instructions, I got it fixed. Now I have all of my older EW libraries such as RA, Silk, SD2, SD3, working in the OPUS Engine, without any issues, loading super fast. 

Actually I'm quite impressed with how fast these library patches load into OPUS Player. Also want to praise, the quality service I received from EW-Support via their Chat option. It took me 20 min. to get everything sorted out. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp

ps. If someone has this issue, and needs the step-by-step instructions to fix it in (Windows 10), I can post the instruction on this thread.


----------



## AB3

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I contacted EW-Support via their Chat messaging, and got instructions to sort this issue, following their step-by-step instructions, I got it fixed. Now I have all of my older EW libraries such as RA, Silk, SD2, SD3, working in the OPUS Engine, without any issues, loading super fast.
> 
> Actually I'm quite impressed with how fast these library patches load into OPUS Player. Also want to praise, the quality service I received from EW-Support via their Chat option. It took me 20 min. to get everything sorted out.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp
> 
> ps. If someone has this issue, and needs the step-by-step instructions to fix it in (Windows 10), I can post the instruction on this thread.


Please post it. I am having the same issue. (RA, Gypsy, etc.)


----------



## muziksculp

AB3 said:


> Please post it. I am having the same issue. (RA, Gypsy, etc.)


Sure, will do.


----------



## muziksculp

Here are the Step-By-Step Instructions to resolve these issues.

Also Note that I had to re-install OPUS Player after I did all the steps below, although the EW-Install Center App. was indicating that OPUS was still installed on my system. You might not encounter this issue, but if you do, just re-install OPUS from Soundsonline Support page.

*Main Application Data Removal*
1. Open a file Explorer window and go to C:\Program Data\East West\
_Note: Program data is a hidden folder by default so you may need to change your view settings to show hidden items_

You could delete the entire EastWest folder, or delete everything there but the QL Spaces/EW Spaces II folders (If you delete those as well you’ll just have to reinstall them also)

*Plugin Removal*

2. Go to C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3 and remove the VST3 of Opus/Play.vst3 and the Opus.res file


3. Next, for the .AAX plugin, go to C:\Program Files\Common Files\Avid\Audio\Plug-Ins\
And delete the .aax for both and .res file for Opus


4. By default, the Opus and Play vst2.4 files write to C:\Program Files\vstplugins - there (or elsewhere if you don’t have them there, you can search for the play_VST_x64.dll , Opus.dll, and Opus.res files and delete those

Empty the trash and then restart your PC.


*Reinstallation*

5. Download the latest versions of the software you deleted either from the EW Installation Center, or from:

Opus: http://software.soundsonline.com/Products/OPUS/Opus_1.0.4_Win.zip
Product Installer: http://software.soundsonline.com/Products/ProductSupport/Product_7.2.6b_Win.zip


Play: http://software.soundsonline.com/Products/PLAY/Play_6.1.9_Win.zip

EW Spaces II - http://software.soundsonline.com/Products/Spaces2/2.0.2/SpacesII_2.0.2_Win.zip

QL Spaces - http://software.soundsonline.com/Products/QL_Spaces/1.1.26/Spaces_1.1.26_Win.zip



*Library Reconnect*
6. Next, you can reset the locations of your libraries, the easiest/fastest way is to do so through the EW Installation Center:



EW Installation Center

A. Open the Installation Center and Login with your soundsonline.com account

B. Click the Main Menu and choose 'Reconnect Libraries'

_Note: That should refresh the connection to all the libraries you have installed, but if not, follow the steps below_

C. Hover over the library you want to add, and a gear should show up on the right-hand side

D. Click the Gear and then choose ‘Locate Directory’

E. Find/Select the Instruments folder inside the Main Library Folder, then click ‘Open’


----------



## muziksculp

So far, I'm loving the *OPUS Engine*. One of the best Players I have used.  

Thank You East West.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

I took the plunge this past Wednesday and purchased Hollywood Orchestra Opus edition

I am new to orchestration and the Orchestrator appealed to me as I wanted to be able to review how the instruments were set up therein and how people with far more experience than me put an orchestral track together

I started reading up on this library as I waited for Amazon to deliver my Samsung T7 2TB external SSD, which I would be using solely for the approximately 1TB HO Opus library

Said SSD arrived yesterday afternoon and I set to work installing the EW Installation Center

I activated HO on my iLok drive

I then installed Opus and Product Support

It took me a few minutes to figure out why the HO was not showing up in the Installation Center - but, after quitting the Installation Center and reopening, HO appeared and I started downloading the libraries to my external SSD

Hours later, everything was finally installed and I clicked "Activate" -- however, each time I attempted to activate, I would get an error - I emailed EW support but, being that it was 11pm I did not expect a prompt reply

I re-checked iLok - yup, the license was activated
I restarted EW Installation Center and attempted to activate again - nope
Finally, I shut down my computer and restarted it
Magically, upon opening the Installation Center, all libraries had been checked as "Activated" - who knew the old tech support standby advice of "Have you turned the computer off and then back on?" would actually work?

I then opened Logic and set out trying out some sounds - I am loving this library

I looked at the CPU monitor in Opus and playing a chord on any given patch brought my CPU usage to 7-8%

I then went into the Orchestrator and found that it was exactly what I wanted it to be - however, the CPU usage in Orchestrator was between 25-30%

I guess I did not learn as much about Orchestrator as I should have because, I soon learned that there is no MIDI export in Logic - basically, as far as Logic is concerned, Orchestrator is used as a loop player (sort of like how the Damage 2 loops play)

I immediately went to YouTube to see if anyone has come up with a reasonable workaround - alas, they have not but, I did see someone had emailed EW about MIDI export from Orchestrator in Logic and EW responded that they were in talks with developers about (whether Apple is one of those developers is unknown) bringing the MIDI export feature to the DAWs that currently do not have it

I also read a suggestion from someone to purchase Cubase Elements, use Orchestrator and export the MIDI therein, then just bring the MIDI over to Logic -- has anyone resorted to this? Any rumors on the horizon about Logic allowing MIDI export from Orchestrator in any update in the foreseeable future?

Also, coming from using BBCSO and the SA player where it was very simple to unload articulations, is there any such feature in Opus?

Thank you and be well


----------



## Jkist

So sorry if this has been answered a million times before, but I really dont want to sift through 300+ pages to find an answer heh.

So I have Hollywood Orchestra Diamond Edition. Which upgrade do I choose? I see Hollywood Orchestra, and I see Gold, nothing about Diamond...


----------



## rroc

MorphineNoir said:


> Also, coming from using BBCSO and the SA player where it was very simple to unload articulations, is there any such feature in Opus?


Yes! If you're on *PLAY*, there's an *Articulations *button underneath the picture of your instrument. That gets you to a list of all articulations (only if you've loaded an Instrument that contains multiple of course). Toggle the* glowing dot* next to an articulation on/off to load/purge. There's also a separate *Articulations *tab under *Play* where you can toggle them all on/off with toggle-switches - this is also where you can assign custom keyswitches!


----------



## ip20

MorphineNoir said:


> Samsung T7 2TB external SSD, which I would be using solely for the approximately 1TB HO Opus library


What’s your performance been like with OPUS on an external SSD (usb?)? Does it load the big patches quickly enough?


----------



## Markrs

Jkist said:


> So sorry if this has been answered a million times before, but I really dont want to sift through 300+ pages to find an answer heh.
> 
> So I have Hollywood Orchestra Diamond Edition. Which upgrade do I choose? I see Hollywood Orchestra, and I see Gold, nothing about Diamond...


They no longer sell Gold, so when it says upgrade from Hollywood Orchestra, they mean Diamond. So you want to select that option if you have the old Hollywood Orchestra Diamond.


----------



## BassClef

Jkist said:


> So sorry if this has been answered a million times before, but I really dont want to sift through 300+ pages to find an answer heh.
> 
> So I have Hollywood Orchestra Diamond Edition. Which upgrade do I choose? I see Hollywood Orchestra, and I see Gold, nothing about Diamond...


Go the EW page for Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition… Log in… Select Buy Now… Select Upgrade… Select Upgrading from Original Hollywood Orchestra… Add t Cart… that gets you Hollywood Orchestra Diamond Opus. I believe they no longer sell a gold version.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

rroc said:


> Yes! If you're on *PLAY*, there's an *Articulations *button underneath the picture of your instrument. That gets you to a list of all articulations (only if you've loaded an Instrument that contains multiple of course). Toggle the* glowing dot* next to an articulation on/off to load/purge. There's also a separate *Articulations *tab under *Play* where you can toggle them all on/off with toggle-switches - this is also where you can assign custom keyswitches!


Thank you very much - I appreciate the insight 



ip20 said:


> What’s your performance been like with OPUS on an external SSD (usb?)? Does it load the big patches quickly enough?


Very fast - no lag time at all -- I use the T7 for all my libraries -- I originally thought I would get a Thunderbolt 3 but the USB3 is plenty fast for VSTs


----------



## ip20

Thank you, that is great to hear.


----------



## odod

MorphineNoir said:


> Thank you very much - I appreciate the insight
> 
> 
> Very fast - no lag time at all -- I use the T7 for all my libraries -- I originally thought I would get a Thunderbolt 3 but the USB3 is plenty fast for VSTs


when you use VEP it is more cpu saver  i could not be happier .. and you may check again this documents to tweak some of OPUS element


----------



## muziksculp

odod said:


> when you use VEP it is more cpu saver  i could not be happier .. and you may check again this documents to tweak some of OPUS element


Interesting, forgot about this option. (THANKS for reminding me) 

HOOPUS is very CPU efficient on my Windows 10 PC.

I also have VE-Pro 7, so I might host HOOPUS in VE-Pro just to see if there is a major CPU usage difference.

OH.. and I had to re-install OPUS Player to add the VST2 version, I had only installed the VST3 version, but VE-Pro 7 can't host VST3. Hopefully they will update it so it is possible to host VST3, or maybe VE-Pro 8 will offer that.


----------



## szczaw

I wish they provided a mixdown of the epic mics (or mic merging). Three mics going with several instruments (strings especially) and my cpu is starting to run out of steam.


----------



## muziksculp

Q. Is there a Niente option in OPUS Player ?

EDIT : 

OK, just read this in the OPUS Orchestra User's Manual :

Quote: 

"Abbreviations like Ni (Niente) have been removed from instrument naming, because
all instruments now use CC 11 (Expression) to fade to silence as a standard across the
entire library."


----------



## MusiquedeReve

I emailed EW customer service about MIDI export in Logic

Here is the reply I received:







So, I opened the Installation Center and I did not have any updates available for either Opus or Orchestrator

I checked the version of Orchestrator in the Installation Center and it is 1.0.1
I did not see Opus anywhere in the Installation Center so I checked in my Mac's Application folder and the version of Opus I have is 1.0.4

Anyone else running into this issue?


----------



## racerx

MorphineNoir said:


> I emailed EW customer service about MIDI export in Logic
> 
> Here is the reply I received:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I opened the Installation Center and I did not have any updates available for either Opus or Orchestrator
> 
> I checked the version of Orchestrator in the Installation Center and it is 1.0.1
> I did not see Opus anywhere in the Installation Center so I checked in my Mac's Application folder and the version of Opus I have is 1.0.4
> 
> Anyone else running into this issue?


I have the same problem. Running Opus 1.0.4 on my Mac. But I see Opus 1.1 available on their support webpage 






How to Get Started with EastWest Libraries, Plugins & More


EastWest's Getting Started guides teach you the basics of ComposerCloud, how to use the Sound Data Hard Drives, EastWest Libraries, VST plugins & more.




www.soundsonline.com


----------



## MusiquedeReve

racerx said:


> I have the same problem. Running Opus 1.0.4 on my Mac


I just checked again and no updates available

EW customer service got my hopes up with that email - unless it is a slow roll out? or the customer service rep was confused?


----------



## racerx

MorphineNoir said:


> I just checked again and no updates available
> 
> EW customer service got my hopes up with that email - unless it is a slow roll out? or the customer service rep was confused?


You have to download the Opus update outside of the installation center. I did. MIDI export works now in stand alone mode (1st check) Logic next


----------



## MusiquedeReve

racerx said:


> You have to download the Opus update outside of the installation center. I did. MIDI export works now in stand alone mode (1st check) Logic next


OK is the Opus update on the EW website?

What about the Orchestrator update?


----------



## racerx

MorphineNoir said:


> OK is the Opus update on the EW website?
> 
> What about the Orchestrator update?


Click this link. Everything is here. http://www.soundsonline.com/Support?section=updates


----------



## MusiquedeReve

racerx said:


> Click this link. Everything is here. http://www.soundsonline.com/Support?section=updates


Thanks

That begs the question - why even have the Installation Center if we have to download form the website?


----------



## BassClef

OK... I used the link above and downloaded/installed the Opus update. I had ver 1.04 and now have version 1.1.

However when I downloaded the Orchestrator update, I only get very small folder contain mostly containing empty folders and no instruction on what to do with it.


----------



## racerx

BassClef said:


> OK... I used the link above and downloaded/installed the Opus update. I had ver 1.04 and now have version 1.1.
> 
> However when I downloaded the Orchestrator update, I only get very small folder contain mostly containing empty folders and no instruction on what to do with it.


Move it your EW application folder and replace what is there


----------



## racerx

If you happen to run your EW update again, it will try to "update" Orchestrator. Don't do it. It downgrades it from 1.1 back to 1.0.1. v1.0.1 does not support the MIDI export


----------



## BassClef

MorphineNoir said:


> I emailed EW customer service about MIDI export in Logic
> 
> Here is the reply I received:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I opened the Installation Center and I did not have any updates available for either Opus or Orchestrator
> 
> I checked the version of Orchestrator in the Installation Center and it is 1.0.1
> I did not see Opus anywhere in the Installation Center so I checked in my Mac's Application folder and the version of Opus I have is 1.0.4
> 
> Anyone else running into this issue?


OK... I did the updates. Using Logic. record? What to I drag and where do I drop it!


----------



## racerx

BassClef said:


> OK... I did the updates. Using Logic. record? What to I drag and where do I drop it!


Within the Orchestrator window there is a hand icon now in the lower right corner. This is where you left click and drag the midi export from and into your DAW. It works perfectly. Before you drag you need to load the export. You do that by playing the orchestration you currently have on that track. Stop when you are done. Then drag from the hand (left clicking) to an empty track in Logic. I didn't find a manual reference but it works similarly to other phrase library exports.


----------



## Karmand

Confirmed: Done in Logic. This is a game changer for Logic. I'm putting this on my BF list - if on sale then, or Christmas Wish List. Works great. Thanks EW


----------



## MusiquedeReve

BassClef said:


> OK... I did the updates. Using Logic. record? What to I drag and where do I drop it!





racerx said:


> Within the Orchestrator window there is a hand icon now in the lower right corner. This is where you left click and drag the midi export from and into your DAW. It works perfectly. Before you drag you need to load the export. You do that by playing the orchestration you currently have on that track. Stop when you are done. Then drag from the hand (left clicking) to an empty track in Logic. I didn't find a manual reference but it works similarly to other phrase library exports.


OK I played a C Major chord in Orchestrator on an ostinato preset

I then dragged the MIDI into Logic

But, Logic assigned all these random instruments to each MIDI track -- Is there a way to have Logic assign the instruments from HOOPUS or is that done manually?

Thank you


----------



## racerx

MorphineNoir said:


> OK I played a C Major chord in Orchestrator on an ostinato preset
> 
> I then dragged the MIDI into Logic
> 
> But, Logic assigned all these random instruments to each MIDI track -- Is there a way to have Logic assign the instruments from HOOPUS or is that done manually?
> 
> Thank you


I noticed that too. I suspect that's a MIDI channel limitation. But the good news is that each exported MIDI track has the correct instrument and articulation label. I don't use Logic instruments anyway so this isn't a problem for me.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

racerx said:


> I noticed that too. I suspect that's a MIDI channel limitation. But the good news is that each exported MIDI track has the correct instrument and articulation label. I don't use Logic instruments anyway so this isn't a problem for me.


I rarely use Logic instruments - when I dragged the Orchestrator MIDI into Logic, Logic created all those tracks with the instruments, not me

But yes, the instruments used by Orchestrator are labeled in the regions, which is good

So, basically, the MIDI drag and drop is just a way to get the MIDI data into Logic so that it can be used with other libraries


----------



## BassClef

Wow... I'll best sounded great! 

OK... just tried it for the first time in Logic... same thing... lots of strange instruments from the the Logic Library. It takes a while to with to the correct HO instruments, and even worse... you have to delete all of the effects that were on each of the Logic instruments!

What would happen if I delete the entire Logic Library, since I never use it any more.


----------



## racerx

MorphineNoir said:


> I rarely use Logic instruments - when I dragged the Orchestrator MIDI into Logic, Logic created all those tracks with the instruments, not me
> 
> But yes, the instruments used by Orchestrator are labeled in the regions, which is good
> 
> So, basically, the MIDI drag and drop is just a way to get the MIDI data into Logic so that it can be used with other libraries


correct


----------



## MusiquedeReve

BassClef said:


> Wow... I'll best sounded great!
> 
> OK... just tried it for the first time in Logic... same thing... lots of strange instruments from the the Logic Library. It takes a while to with to the correct HO instruments, and even worse... you have to delete all of the effects that were on each of the Logic instruments!
> 
> What would happen if I delete the entire Logic Library, since I never use it any more.


Ohhhh that might be a good idea - the only time I use the Logic Library is to get an idea down quickly anyway


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

wow!

works perfectly in Studio One

i used the EW Installation Center - flawless!


----------



## muziksculp

Q. Do you usually use multiple OPUS instruments per Instance of the OPUS Player (each assigned to a different midi channel), or do you tend to just use one OPUS player for each Instrument ?


----------



## cqd

muziksculp said:


> Q. Do you usually use multiple OPUS instruments per Instance of the OPUS Player (each assigned to a different midi channel), or do you tend to just use one OPUS player for each Instrument ?


In my vepro template I'm just using 5 instances of opus..One per section pretty much..when I was figuring it out opus seemed fairly temperamental sometimes, but it seems a good bit more stable now..


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> In my vepro template I'm just using 5 instances of opus..One per section pretty much..when I was figuring it out opus seemed fairly temperamental sometimes, but it seems a good bit more stable now..


Thanks. That's a nice way to set it up.

I wonder how much RAM each empty instance of OPUS consumes ? and if one Purges the Instruments, there will be very low RAM footprint.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

cqd said:


> In my vepro template I'm just using 5 instances of opus..One per section pretty much..when I was figuring it out opus seemed fairly temperamental sometimes, but it seems a good bit more stable now..


Excited to give it a try in VEP.

Hats off to EW for getting this update out so quickly!


----------



## cqd

muziksculp said:


> Thanks. That's a nice way to set it up.
> 
> I wonder how much RAM each empty instance of OPUS consumes ? and if one Purges the Instruments, there will be very low RAM footprint.


Purge works exceptionally well..


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> Purge works exceptionally well..


Yes, it does. I tested Purge, and it is amazing how much more efficient RAM is used.  

And it works without any audio issue. Streaming from Disc in OPUS is superb.


----------



## cqd

A tip too if ye're setting it up..make sure to have mono solo legato or whatever turned on and have cc22 on a fader..


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> A tip too if ye're setting it up..make sure to have mono solo legato or whatever turned on and have cc22 on a fader..


THANKS.  

What does turning ON Mono Solo Legato do ? and what does CC22 control ? 

Sorry, didn't check this part of the user's manual yet.


----------



## cqd

muziksculp said:


> THANKS.
> 
> What does turning ON Mono Solo Legato do ? and what does CC22 control ?
> 
> Sorry, didn't check this part of the user's manual yet.


Mono solo legato(?..is that what it's called?..) turns on the proper recorded legato..so turn it on..cc22 then enables/disables it..so have it turned on, and you can then turn it on or off with cc22..


----------



## racerx

Zoot_Rollo said:


> wow!
> 
> works perfectly in Studio One
> 
> i used the EW Installation Center - flawless!


That's cool. What are the actual sample sounds that are attached to each track? The ones named with the proper articulation? That is done automatically with the MIDI export?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

racerx said:


> That's cool. What are the actual sample sounds that are attached to each track? The ones named with the proper articulation?


no instruments assigned - just MIDI tracks.

i would still need to manually add VIs to the tracks.

not sure automatic VI assignment is possible in S1.

But at least the tracks are named per the Orchestrator layout - which seemed to be an issue in Logic from a previous post.


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> Mono solo legato(?..is that what it's called?..) turns on the proper recorded legato..so turn it on..cc22 then enables/disables it..so have it turned on, and you can then turn it on or off with cc22..


OK. I will refer to the user's manual to learn more about this.

There is also a Legato button, I wonder what's the difference.


----------



## cqd

The legato button is simulated..mono true legato is recorded..have that enabled and use cc22 to turn it on or off..that's how it works..


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> The legato button is simulated..mono true legato is recorded..have that enabled and use cc22 to turn it on or off..that's how it works..


THANKS.  

I'm assuming that the Mono-True Legato will work on Legato Patches.


----------



## muziksculp

Any idea if East West has improved the Trombones in HOOPUS compared to Hollywood Orch. PLAY version, Diamond ?


----------



## alcorey

cqd said:


> A tip too if ye're setting it up..make sure to have mono solo legato or whatever turned on and have cc22 on a fader..


Where does one find this option?
In "Play mode" I see "Legato On" under Midi control and it is assigned to 68

EDIT: Never mind, found it - doesn't appear for certain string articulations, but when I switched to brass and woodwinds it showed up - all good!


----------



## Evans

muziksculp said:


> Any idea if East West has improved the Trombones in HOOPUS compared to Hollywood Orch. PLAY version, Diamond ?


They recorded a new set of "two trombones" patches.


----------



## tc9000

muziksculp said:


> Any idea if East West has improved the Trombones in HOOPUS compared to Hollywood Orch. PLAY version, Diamond ?


I happened to be watching this:


----------



## MusiquedeReve

Does anyone know if EW provides a list of the negative track delays for instruments and articulations?


----------



## MusiquedeReve

racerx said:


> I noticed that too. I suspect that's a MIDI channel limitation. But the good news is that each exported MIDI track has the correct instrument and articulation label. I don't use Logic instruments anyway so this isn't a problem for me.





BassClef said:


> Wow... I'll best sounded great!
> 
> OK... just tried it for the first time in Logic... same thing... lots of strange instruments from the the Logic Library. It takes a while to with to the correct HO instruments, and even worse... you have to delete all of the effects that were on each of the Logic instruments!
> 
> What would happen if I delete the entire Logic Library, since I never use it any more.


So I just heard from EW tech support regarding Logic inserting random MIDI instruments - the rep informed me that that is just how Logic does things but, he did provide a workaround:






I am attaching the .zip file but, VIC will not allow me to attach the .tiff file


----------



## BassClef

I had two on-line chats today with EW tech support. The MIDI export is so new that they have just begun working with it and getting calls from customers. I told them about the problem with Logic not importing the OPUS instruments but rather using seemingly random ones from the Logic library. They said that I was the first to advise them of this and asked for a video of that happening, which I sent them. Tech support is going to research the issue and take it to developers, but so far they believe it is a problem with Logic's method of interpreting the MIDI data. They are guessing there will nothing they can do about that but will investigate.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

BassClef said:


> I had two on-line chats today with EW tech support. The MIDI export is so new that they have just begun working with it and getting calls from customers. I told them about the problem with Logic not importing the OPUS instruments but rather using seemingly random ones from the Logic library. They said that I was the first to advise them of this and asked for a video of that happening, which I sent them. Tech support is going to research the issue and take it to developers, but so far they believe it is a problem with Logic's method of interpreting the MIDI data. They are guessing there will nothing they can do about that but will investigate.


See what I posted right above your post


----------



## alcorey

MorphineNoir said:


> So I just heard from EW tech support regarding Logic inserting random MIDI instruments - the rep informed me that that is just how Logic does thing but, he did provide a workaround:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am attaching the .zip file but, VIC will not allow me to attach the .tiff file


If you have photoshop you can change the .tiff file to a .jpg or .png and upload that

Or if you don't have Photoshop - you could email it to me and I'll do it and post it - If so, DM me and I'll send my email

OR just take a screenshot of the .tiff file if you can view it and post that

Or try to ZIP the .tiff file and post that

It's just for the visual reference anyway - but nice to have


----------



## MusiquedeReve

alcorey said:


> If you have photoshop you can change the .tiff file to a .jpg or .png and upload that
> 
> Or if you don't have Photoshop - you could email it to me and I'll do it and post it - If so, DM me and I'll send my email
> 
> OR just take a screenshot of the .tiff file if you can view it and post that
> 
> Or try to ZIP the .tiff file and post that
> 
> It's just for the visual reference anyway - but nice to have


Here it is as a jpg:


----------



## alcorey

MorphineNoir said:


> Here it is as a jpg:


The .jpg file won't load into Logic but I created my own icon before you made the .jpg - different than the Opus circle one

You may prefer it also


----------



## MusiquedeReve

alcorey said:


> The .jpg file won't load into Logic but I created my own icon before you made the .jpg - different than the Opus circle one
> 
> You may prefer it also


Ohhh I dig it 😎


----------



## cqd

muziksculp said:


> OK. I will refer to the user's manual to learn more about this.
> 
> There is also a Legato button, I wonder what's the difference.


I was just thinking actually about this..can you hit con sordino and have on/off on the fader similarly to how the legato works?..would be handier than having to open the plugin etc..


----------



## tc9000

Does this file number and size look correct? (I've been shuffling files about and I have a nagging doubt that some got lost):

EDIT: its supposed to be 310 GB


----------



## BassClef

OK… on the problem with importing Orchestrator midi into Logic… I deleted THE ENTIRE library of Logic instruments and loops… nearly 75 GB. I thought perhaps this would then allow or force Logic to load the correct HO presets rather than a seemingly random selection from Logic’s library. FAIL!

It appears that Logic somehow still finds or quickly downloads the ones it wants to use. And it oddly always seems to be synthesizer presets! Now I’m wondering if I should try deleting Logic’s actual instruments as well as the presets library.


----------



## rnb_2

BassClef said:


> OK… on the problem with importing Orchestrator midi into Logic… I deleted THE ENTIRE library of Logic instruments and loops… nearly 75 GB. I thought perhaps this would then allow or force Logic to load the correct HO presets rather than a seemingly random selection from Logic’s library. FAIL!
> 
> It appears that Logic somehow still finds or quickly downloads the ones it wants to use. And it oddly always seems to be synthesizer presets! Now I’m wondering if I should try deleting Logic’s actual instruments as well as the presets library.


I don't know if there's any way to get around Logic downloading the basics that it thinks it needs to function.


----------



## Kabraxis

I searched the thread and saw some people are on the same boat with me - how do you handle very long project save-load times? It doesn't happen to you?

Whenever I add an OPUS to my project, save times (and save sizes) increase significantly. A Reaper project with 6 OPUS instances (with total 20 KS patches, purged) takes around a minute to save, and +10mb project file size per OPUS instance.

Those save/load times really annoying so I had to switch to another library.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

BassClef said:


> OK… on the problem with importing Orchestrator midi into Logic… I deleted THE ENTIRE library of Logic instruments and loops… nearly 75 GB. I thought perhaps this would then allow or force Logic to load the correct HO presets rather than a seemingly random selection from Logic’s library. FAIL!
> 
> It appears that Logic somehow still finds or quickly downloads the ones it wants to use. And it oddly always seems to be synthesizer presets! Now I’m wondering if I should try deleting Logic’s actual instruments as well as the presets library.


Did you try the workaround that EW tech support suggested?


----------



## cqd

Kabraxis said:


> I searched the thread and saw some people are on the same boat with me - how do you handle very long project save-load times? It doesn't happen to you?
> 
> Whenever I add an OPUS to my project, save times (and save sizes) increase significantly. A Reaper project with 6 OPUS instances (with total 20 KS patches, purged) takes around a minute to save, and +10mb project file size per OPUS instance.
> 
> Those save/load times really annoying so I had to switch to another library.


Are you purging the Opus instruments before using them?..seriously reduces memory usage..


----------



## BassClef

Something new regarding purging in the Opus update…

I have a Logic project created with mostly Orchestrator presets. Prior to the “just released” Opus update, that project would load using about 26GB of my ram. Then I would purge all Opus instruments which reduced the ram used down to a around 7GB. 

Now, after the update, when I load that same project it t loads ALREADY PURGED using around 7GB, so I do not need to execute the “purge all Opus instruments “ option.


----------



## PlingPlang

Hi there, maybe an expert could help 
I'm interested in purchasing HOOPUS but am wondering about the room sound.
I'm looking for a pretty dry and direct sound of the orchestral instruments to add them to pop music tracks as an interesting additional layer. Not so much interested in a typical orchestral production that relies on (and features) a big hall sound.

1. I guess the right approach for me would be to start with the close mics and then carefully add more mics to increase the size/width of the sound - and disregard the distant mics. Is this something that works or is the close mic sound also very wet?

2. I also like the possibilities of the orchestrator (as I'm not an experienced classical composer) to help me with good sounding patterns as a starting point. However, from watching the tutorials it seems that whenever a pattern is loaded, the instruments that belong to it are loaded with 'default' settings, that means pretty wet-sounding.
Is there a possibility to change that default to a dryer sound (different mics loaded)?

Thanks a lot!


----------



## Markrs

PlingPlang said:


> pretty dry and direct sound of the orchestral instruments


That is precisely how I would describe HOOPUS, especially when you use close mics. I also find it pretty nimble due to it being quite dry. 



PlingPlang said:


> I also like the possibilities of the orchestrator (as I'm not an experienced classical composer) to help me with good sounding patterns as a starting point. However, from watching the tutorials it seems that whenever a pattern is loaded, the instruments that belong to it are loaded with 'default' settings, that means pretty wet-sounding.


You can change the mics selected both in the Play tab and in the Mix tab (which is quicker to use). In the Perform tab you can turn off the Reverb that is automatically on there (it will remove it from all the instruments). You can then save these changes as a new user preset, so you only have to do it once.


----------



## Markrs

BassClef said:


> Now, after the update, when I load that same project it t loads ALREADY PURGED using around 7GB, so I do not need to execute the “purge all Opus instruments “ option.


Not sure if it is the same thing as you mention, but in the preferences under "streaming" you can set "never preload" which means it is auto purged when loading instruments.


----------



## PlingPlang

Markrs said:


> That is precisely how I would describe HOOPUS, especially when you use close mics. I also find it pretty nimble due to it being quite dry.
> 
> 
> You can change the mics selected both in the Play tab and in the Mix tab (which is quicker to use). In the Perform tab you can turn off the Reverb that is automatically on there (it will remove it from all the instruments). You can then save these changes as a new user preset, so you only have to do it once.


Thanks Markrs, good to hear. Most demos online do not really feature the close mic sound, so your comment helps a lot.


----------



## Kabraxis

cqd said:


> Are you purging the Opus instruments before using them?..seriously reduces memory usage..


Yes, always. I also keep all my OPUS stuff on an SSD, so never had file streaming problems after purging either. It all works well, until I click "Save Project".
Whenever I hit CTRL + S to save the Reaper project (which is very often), I had to wait for over a minute.

So I reckon this is not a widespread problem?


----------



## BassClef

Markrs said:


> Not sure if it is the same thing as you mention, but in the preferences under "streaming" you can set "never preload" which means it is auto purged when loading instruments.


Yes... and I have that turned off. My understanding is... that parameter if turned on, would force 100% streaming.


----------



## Markrs

BassClef said:


> Yes... and I have that turned off. My understanding is... that parameter if turned on, would force 100% streaming.


Yep it is 100% disk streaming, though every key you press then goes into memory, so it only disk streams the first time. On a NVMe drive I find no issue using this method.


----------



## BassClef

OK… not only new to Opus bout also new to HO. Is there any way to get sustain working on all of the presets?


----------



## Markrs

BassClef said:


> OK… not only new to Opus bout also new to HO. Is there any way to get sustain working on all of the presets?


Apologies but I not sure I understand the question. Do you mean the sustain articulations or using the sustain pedal? All sustain articulations should work. I've not tried using the pedal, but can't think why that wouldn't work if you wanted to use it.


----------



## BassClef

Markrs said:


> Apologies but I not sure I understand the question. Do you mean the sustain articulations or using the sustain pedal? All sustain articulations should work. I've not tried using the pedal, but can't think why that wouldn't work if you wanted to use it.


Sorry… I was not clear. I was talking about the sustain peddle, and basically only on the ensemble patches, especially those in Orchestrator.

UPDATE: I just got off a chat with EW and was advised that the sustain peddle does not work with Orchestrator, but may be implemented in a future update.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

alcorey said:


> The .jpg file won't load into Logic but I created my own icon before you made the .jpg - different than the Opus circle one
> 
> You may prefer it also


So, I had some free time today and went through the steps detailed by EW in the email screenshot I posted here

I chose an Ostinato preset in Orchestrator and played C Major chord for 4 measures

I then created a separate track with Opus on it and dragged the MIDI from Orchestrator onto it

Logic Created 16 tracks with Opus on each

I then went into each of those tracks and assigned a HOOPUS instrument thereto corresponding to the Orchestrator's instrument selection

However, I am getting no sound at all from any of these newly made tracks

Here is what it looks like:






So, at this point, I am not sure if I missed a step or if anyone else has experienced this as well and can advise me on what I am doing wrong

Thank you


----------



## BassClef

Even if that works, is that any quicker than simply replacing each of the Logic instruments that are installed from their library?


----------



## MusiquedeReve

BassClef said:


> Even if that works, is that any quicker than simply replacing each of the Logic instruments that are installed from their library?


Exactly my thinking


----------



## tc9000

Kabraxis said:


> Yes, always. I also keep all my OPUS stuff on an SSD, so never had file streaming problems after purging either. It all works well, until I click "Save Project".
> Whenever I hit CTRL + S to save the Reaper project (which is very often), I had to wait for over a minute.
> 
> So I reckon this is not a widespread problem?


I'm on Reaper also, on Windows, and I'm not seeing such long save times. Takes about 1-2 seconds to save the project for me. But yeah - I have had that in the past (with a *very* large -exclusively Kontakt- template) and it was maddedning, because I like to save often.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi, 

EW Hollywood Orchestra OPUS users, do you tend to use other non-East West Orchestral Libraries to complement it with ? 

If Yes, what are the other Orchestral Libraries you like to use with HOOPUS ? 

Just curious. 

Thanks.


----------



## Fleer

Rosewood Grand from OrangeTreeSamples
Joshua Bell violin from Embertone
Tina Guo cello from Cinesamples


----------



## szczaw

Other EW libraries: HC, VOO, VOP, RA, Gypsy, SDs.


----------



## muziksculp

szczaw said:


> Other EW libraries: HC, VOO, VOP, RA, Gypsy, SDs.


That's being very loyal to the brand


----------



## szczaw

muziksculp said:


> That's being very loyal to the brand


I'm loyal to good bang for the buck. I got all these libraries at %60 off + store discount.


----------



## odod

szczaw said:


> I'm loyal to good bang for the buck. I got all these libraries at %60 off + store discount.


JRR?


----------



## Fleer

Well, since @muziksculp asked for non-East West libraries …


----------



## szczaw

odod said:


> JRR?


Mostly AudioDeluxe.


----------



## szczaw

Fleer said:


> Well, since @muziksculp asked for non-East West libraries …


Ahh, missed that...


----------



## Fleer

But there are some great additional EW choices indeed, like Hollywood Choirs and Backup Singers, or Gypsy and Silk.


----------



## Dex

cqd said:


> Are you purging the Opus instruments before using them?..seriously reduces memory usage..


I don't see how that would affect the project *file* size or save time.


----------



## Serge Pavkin

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> EW Hollywood Orchestra OPUS users, do you tend to use other non-East West Orchestral Libraries to complement it with ?
> 
> If Yes, what are the other Orchestral Libraries you like to use with HOOPUS ?
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> Thanks.


I often use Spitfire studio strings for layering (mostly extended articulations like flautando, sul point) and 8dio Adagio to strengthen the leading parts. I also really like to add the solo violin 2 by Performance Samples, and I'm thinking about buying Vista or Tokyo strings. UPD: and I use Ben Osterhouse strings (Sospiro, Oscillation, Pattern)


----------



## BassClef

I've been testing Cinematic Studio libraries along with HO-Opus.

I turn off the CS close mic. and adjust the other two mics to my liking. I then place them in the same EastWest SpacesII hall, balance the volume and duplicate the panning. Sounds pretty good to me! For more detail in the shorts, add back in some of the CS close mic.


----------



## Fleer

Yeah, that SpacesII is very effective.
Another great piano to go with Hollywood Orchestra is Cinesamples' CinePiano.


----------



## EgM

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> EW Hollywood Orchestra OPUS users, do you tend to use other non-East West Orchestral Libraries to complement it with ?
> 
> If Yes, what are the other Orchestral Libraries you like to use with HOOPUS ?
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> Thanks.



I've always used VSL (VI Version) with EWHO, doing the same with Opus


----------



## jamieboo

Markrs said:


> Yep it is 100% disk streaming, though every key you press then goes into memory, so it only disk streams the first time. On a NVMe drive I find no issue using this method.


I have a question about this 'loading purged' process...
This all sounds great for reducing the memory footprint, but I wonder how useful it would be for my rather silly process.
I don't play things in. I work in the Cubase Score Editor, I choose a note length, then drag it onto the stave - hearing all the chromatic notes as it moves across the stave. I then release the mouse button when I hear the pitch I need.
I assume that 'chromatic sweep' as I drag the note across the stave would mean that all those notes need to get loaded in - and this would probably completely undo the benefit of loading everything purged. Right?


----------



## alcorey

MorphineNoir said:


> So, I had some free time today and went through the steps detailed by EW in the email screenshot I posted here
> 
> I chose an Ostinato preset in Orchestrator and played C Major chord for 4 measures
> 
> I then created a separate track with Opus on it and dragged the MIDI from Orchestrator onto it
> 
> Logic Created 16 tracks with Opus on each
> 
> I then went into each of those tracks and assigned a HOOPUS instrument thereto corresponding to the Orchestrator's instrument selection
> 
> However, I am getting no sound at all from any of these newly made tracks
> 
> Here is what it looks like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, at this point, I am not sure if I missed a step or if anyone else has experienced this as well and can advise me on what I am doing wrong
> 
> Thank you


I did experience the same thing. Don't drag the midi to the Opus Orchestrator Export track - drag it to the Orchestrator 1 track. Then when you replace each instrument on tracks 1, 2, 3, etc. make sure the channel is set to the same as the original preset you're dragging it from. My example was from the Black Knight Score and here shows the 1st three instruments:






Now, the separate Opus instances I imported to each track:






They all import as channel 1 individually so I changed them to match the original preset score - 1, 2, 3.
They wouldn't play until I matched the channels to the original file? Go figure

If I import a Kontakt instrument onto 1 of the tracks, it plays the midi file although I still have to change the channel to match what the original was.

This is all really just a half-baked solution anyway at this point  - but "half" is the key word here because we at least can get the midi into Logic now, and I imagine a real fix will appear at some point.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

JRRShop has a nice 60% off discount going on for EW-Libraries.

https://vi-control.net/community/th...tra-opus-edition-diamond.116130/#post-4946419

I'm interested in purchasing EW Hollywood Choirs Diamond, which they have at $239.60 (sale price) compared to $599. (reg. price). 

So, do you think I will find this library lower if I wait for BF ? or should I go forward and get it at this price ?

Thanks.


----------



## szczaw

I think this it, EW's BF started already. Spaces II are $159 at AudioDeluxe + 15% fall discount, and discount bucks from previous purchases. Could be cheaper than JRR.


----------



## muziksculp

szczaw said:


> I think this it, EW's BF started already. Spaces II are $159 at AudioDeluxe + 15% fall discount, and discount bucks from previous purchases. Could be cheaper than JRR.


THANKS  

Yes, you are correct, they have the same price at EW Store. I guess I should go for it, I will buy it directly from EW at this price.


----------



## muziksculp

Purchased from EW


----------



## alcorey

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> JRRShop has a nice 60% off discount going on for EW-Libraries.
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/th...tra-opus-edition-diamond.116130/#post-4946419
> 
> I'm interested in purchasing EW Hollywood Choirs Diamond, which they have at $239.60 (sale price) compared to $599. (reg. price).
> 
> So, do you think I will find this library lower if I wait for BF ? or should I go forward and get it at this price ?
> 
> Thanks.


Oops, sorry I'm too late - it's $214.99 at AudioDeluxe


----------



## MusiquedeReve

alcorey said:


> Oops, sorry I'm too late - it's $214.99 at AudioDeluxe


I just checked on AudioDeluxe and EW Hollywood Choirs Diamond is listed at $239.60


----------



## alcorey

MorphineNoir said:


> I just checked on AudioDeluxe and EW Hollywood Choirs Diamond is listed at $239.60


Yes but they have an additional 15% off at checkout with code FALL21
It shows up automatically at checkout if you are logged in, and if you're not logged in you can just apply the code


----------



## MusiquedeReve

alcorey said:


> Yes but they have an additional 15% off at checkout with code FALL21
> It shows up automatically at checkout if you are logged in, and if you're not logged in you can just apply the code


Oh, that's some news I can use - thank you!


----------



## muziksculp

alcorey said:


> Oops, sorry I'm too late - it's $214.99 at AudioDeluxe


No problem, I'm still happy with the price I paid.


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder if EW has plans to develop additional orchestral libraries to supplement HOOPUS in the future ?


----------



## alcorey

muziksculp said:


> No problem, I'm still happy with the price I paid.


Yes, still a great deal!


----------



## alcorey

muziksculp said:


> I wonder if EW has plans to develop additional orchestral libraries to supplement HOOPUS in the future ?


Why not - with the great engine they have now!


----------



## muziksculp

alcorey said:


> Why not - with the great engine they have now!


That's exactly what I was thinking. Now that they have one of the best sample players on the market, it's time to develop more amazing libraries, I would love it if they add more specialized, supplemental orchestral libraries for HOOPUS.  and of course other libraries. It makes a lot of sense that they will do this next.


----------



## BluesCat

MitchStarfield said:


> Together with the support team, I have found out the error with the EW OPUS Orchestrator and corrected it:
> 
> If you own the normal GOLD version and upgrade to the DIAMOND, all the content for the large version must also be installed. Both licenses are stored on the iLok-Account.
> 
> If you have activated both versions on the local ilok but only installed the small version, the orchestrator will no longer work because the license wants to address the content of the large version.
> Solution:
> a) install the full content (>1TB, needs a good internet-connection)
> b) temporarily deactivate the Diamond licence in your ilok.
> activate it after download the huge content...


I just want to confirm that the post above is referencing upgrading OPUS Gold (no longer sold) to Opus current version ("Diamond"). I am seriously considering taking the $295 upgrade offer for my Hollywood Orchestra Gold and am hoping I don't have to download and install the whole terrabyte before making use of it. The research I have done seems to indicate that I can just download instruments and spread the data impact over time, while using what I have already downloaded. I was considering upgrading BBCSO core to pro when the 40% comes around, but this looks more useful at the moment. Thanks!


----------



## ennbr

BluesCat said:


> The research I have done seems to indicate that I can just download instruments and spread the data impact over time


This is true for the subscription service however the actual product requires each section to be downloaded in full. You may want to confirm this that is my understanding from what I have installed


----------



## BluesCat

I am so used to poor tech support in general, I was surprised to get a response from EastWest in about ten minutes regarding my query on downloading Opus Hollywood Orchestra over time (to avoid a data crunch with my ISP). Their response, in case any other prospective buyers are curious, follows. I just confirmed that they ARE now shipping OPUS on an SSD rather than a mechanical drive now (still $99). I think that tips the scales for me to just get it "the old fashioned way" via FedEx.


Hello Brian,

When you purchase the upgrade from Hollywood Orchestra Gold to Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition, you can install parts of that entire collection - Hollywood Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, Percussion, Solo Harp, Solo Violin or Solo Cello individually and be able to use what you've installed from our EW Installation Center, though you will need all 7 of those above libraries installed in order to use the Orchestrator application.

The libraries will work individually and run if you want to install them in sections to begin with, though if you want to use all of the available functions with the collection - in particular, the Orchestrator, that requires that you have all 7 sections installed and available in the Opus engine player.

A hard drive is handy for the collection if you'd like to be able to either *use that drive /* *stream the libraries from the provided SSD* or if you wish to have a backup of the libraries or install them from that drive to one of your own. We do recommend SSD drives for optimal streaming (or NVME m.2 SSDs for even faster speeds).

Let us know if you have any other questions or need any further assistance! We're happy to help!

All the best,

EW Technical Support


----------



## muziksculp

Yes, EW Tech-Support were very prompt, and capable to help me as well via their Messaging system when I needed some help. 

A big round of applause, and appreciation to the EW Tech-Support team.


----------



## Fleer

Yeah, their support team is really good.


----------



## PlingPlang

Markrs said:


> That is precisely how I would describe HOOPUS, especially when you use close mics. I also find it pretty nimble due to it being quite dry.



Hi, I have one more question about that.
Since the room/ambience sound of a library is very crucial for me (it needs to fit my sound aesthetics), I was really trying to find out what the close mics would sound like on their own.

Obviously most demos that people upload go for a roomier (more typical orchestral) tone with hall and stuff but then I found this video here:




(PLAY engine but sound is the same with OPUS I guess?)
Around 10:34 we can hear just the close mics without reverb. Still a lot of the room tone can be heard.
So in my world I would not consider it very dry. Compared to Spitfire - yes, definitely dryer.
But compared to a lot of smaller specialized libraries that feature less instruments, for example Sample Modeling, Embertone, Ben Osterhouse - I think HOOPUS still imparts a lot of its room characteristics onto a production.

Is this something where I'm missing a point?

Would it be possible for someone who owns HOOPUS to share a short demo (3-4 instruments) trying to make them sound as dry/direct/popmusic as possible? So i could make a final judgement! That would be so appreciated!!

Of course the easiest way for me would be to test myself - unfortunately EW does not offer the full mic package for the 1-month plan.

Thanks a lot, looking forward to your opinions!


----------



## Evans

PlingPlang said:


> So in my world I would not consider it very dry. Compared to Spitfire - yes, definitely dryer.
> But compared to a lot of smaller specialized libraries that feature less instruments, for example Sample Modeling, Embertone, Ben Osterhouse - I think HOOPUS still imparts a lot of its room characteristics onto a production.
> 
> Is this something where I'm missing a point?


You're not missing anything.


----------



## Markrs

PlingPlang said:


> Hi, I have one more question about that.
> Since the room/ambience sound of a library is very crucial for me (it needs to find my sound aesthetics), I was really trying to find out what the close mics would sound like on their own.
> 
> Obviously most demos that people upload go for a roomier (more typical orchestral) tone with hall and stuff but then I found this video here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (PLAY engine but sound is the same with OPUS I guess?)
> Around 10:34 we can hear just the close mics without reverb. Still a lot of the room tone can be heard.
> So in my world I would not consider it very dry. Compared to Spitfire - yes, definitely dryer.
> But compared to a lot of smaller specialized libraries that feature less instruments, for example Sample Modeling, Embertone, Ben Osterhouse - I think HOOPUS still imparts a lot of its room characteristics onto a production.
> 
> Is this something where I'm missing a point?
> 
> Would it be possible for someone who owns HOOPUS to share a short demo (3-4 instruments) trying to make them sound as dry/direct/popmusic as possible? So i could make a final judgement! That would be so appreciated!!
> 
> Of course the easiest way for me would be to test myself - unfortunately EW does not offer the full mic package for the 1-month plan.
> 
> Thanks a lot, looking forward to your opinions!



You are right, I consider them dry in comparison to other full orchestral libraries, but you still get some of the room sound. If you wanted drier then a more specialised library might be best (maybe VSL), as most full orchestral libraries do have quite a bit of room in the close mics.


----------



## muziksculp

I thought this would be fun to post here, they are the HOOPUS official demos on Soundcloud, to showcase this awesome sounding library, for those who don't use it yet, just listen to what HOOPUS can deliver.

Enjoy


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

HOOPUS users, do you think an EW-HOOPUS Runs library would be useful ? or are you happy creating your runs manually in HOOPUS ?

I would guess that a HOOPUS Runs Library that works closely, and in sync. with HOOPUS would be super useful, and save a lot of time creating them manually.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## MusiquedeReve

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> HOOPUS users, do you think an EW-HOOPUS Runs library would be useful ? or are you happy creating your runs manually in HOOPUS ?
> 
> I would guess that a HOOPUS Runs Library that works closely, and in sync. with HOOPUS would be super useful, and save a lot of time creating them manually.
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


If your'e making it, I'm buying it


----------



## muziksculp

MorphineNoir said:


> If your'e making it, I'm buying it


LOL...No, I was checking if this would be something HOOPUS users will like to have. 

If there is a big enough demand for it, we can email EW to request it, they might be interested to develop it.


----------



## alcorey

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> HOOPUS users, do you think an EW-HOOPUS Runs library would be useful ? or are you happy creating your runs manually in HOOPUS ?
> 
> I would guess that a HOOPUS Runs Library that works closely, and in sync. with HOOPUS would be super useful, and save a lot of time creating them manually.
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


I picked up Palettes Runs & Arps about a week ago on sale for $59 and what's nice about them is that you can drag and drop the midi from any of them to use in another library.
I haven't had extensive time using them yet, but I did find them easy to adapt into Opus


----------



## muziksculp

alcorey said:


> I picked up Palettes Runs & Arps about a week ago on sale for $59 and what's nice about them is that you can drag and drop the midi from any of them to use in another library.
> I haven't had extensive time using them yet, but I did find them easy to adapt into Opus


Interesting. That's a smart way to speed up creating runs manually. 

Thanks.


----------



## cqd

There are some recorded runs though, aren't there?..yeah, they're not that comprehensive, but there's a few..


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> There are some recorded runs though, aren't there?..yeah, they're not that comprehensive, but there's a few..


I haven't checked carefully, I will check to see if they help speed things up. 

Thanks


----------



## cqd

Yeah, they're not there for the new violins, but they're there for the old stuff..in the effects folders..


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> Yeah, they're not there for the new violins, but they're there for the old stuff..in the effects folders..


THANKS


----------



## jamieboo

I never touch the recorded runs. I always build them manually, and I use those manual ones extensively. Of course the recorded ones are 'quicker, easier, more seductive', but I prefer the freedom of the manual ones.
(Musical freedom if not temporal! 😁)


----------



## musicalweather

Will likely spring for HOOPUS (Diamond), as I can get it for the $295 upgrade price. Two questions: 

1. Is it possible to have the orchestrator on a master machine and the actual libraries on slave machines, connected via VE Pro? I'm guessing the answer to this is no, but I'd just thought I'd ask.

2. I have Hollywood Brass Gold on an old machine which is _not_ the one where I will install HOOPUS. I assume I can just download HOOPUS brass as if it were a new library, and not bother to make my old HW Brass gold library "seeable" by OPUS. Is that assumption correct?

Thanks for any help!


----------



## cqd

musicalweather said:


> Will likely spring for HOOPUS (Diamond), as I can get it for the $295 upgrade price. Two questions:
> 
> 1. Is it possible to have the orchestrator on a master machine and the actual libraries on slave machines, connected via VE Pro? I'm guessing the answer to this is no, but I'd just thought I'd ask.
> 
> 2. I have Hollywood Brass Gold on an old machine which is _not_ the one where I will install HOOPUS. I assume I can just download HOOPUS brass as if it were a new library, and not bother to make my old HW Brass gold library "seeable" by OPUS. Is that assumption correct?
> 
> Thanks for any help!


1.The orchestrator draws from the other sample banks I'd say,..
2.Yes..


----------



## cqd

Ok..so due to another thread there I've just mapped all the legato/portamento/consordino buttons to faders..They all work as hoped except for the mono true legato, which dosn't actually turn on or off with the fader..If it's turned on you can toggle it on or off with it, but if you switch to say port, you have to hit the button with the mouse..having them and the legato time on faders is pretty cool tbh..the MTL one looks like it's a bug seeing as all the rest operate differently..


----------



## muziksculp

What's the main function, or benefit of the 'Stereo Double' Feature in HOOPUS ? 

Do you tend to use it ? If Yes, When ?


----------



## cedricm

muziksculp said:


> What's the main function, or benefit of the 'Stereo Double' Feature in HOOPUS ?
> 
> Do you tend to use it ? If Yes, When ?


The Stereo Double controls allow you to set the width of the stereo spread.


----------



## Geomir

Sorry if this has been asked before, but can the whole EWHO OPUS fit in an 1TB SSD? Its size (from what I've read from official sources) is close to 950GB, but the "real" free space of a freshly formatted 1TB drive is almost 930GB.

From the other side, I see that the HHD that EW uses to ship EWHO OPUS (for those who choose this option because of slow Internet) is 1TB. So this means that it fits?

Is there any source where I can see the size of each one of the seven sections?

And, last but not least, is there any way for someone (who was happy with the original EWHO Gold version) to stick with the EWHO OPUS Gold version? The default mic was very nice (not wet, not bone-dry), but also the requirements in disk space, RAM and CPU were so much more friendly. Even if I buy the whole version, can I choose to "install" only the 130GB Gold version mic and content?


----------



## AndyP

Geomir said:


> Sorry if this has been asked before, but can the whole EWHO OPUS fit in an 1TB SSD? Its size (from what I've read from official sources) is close to 950GB, but the "real" free space of a freshly formatted 1TB drive is almost 930GB.
> 
> From the other side, I see that the HHD that EW uses to ship EWHO OPUS (for those who choose this option because of slow Internet) is 1TB. So this means that it fits?
> 
> Is there any source where I can see the size of each one of the seven sections?
> 
> And, last but not least, is there any way for someone (who was happy with the original EWHO Gold version) to stick with the EWHO OPUS Gold version? The default mic was very nice (not wet, not bone-dry), but also the requirements in disk space, RAM and CPU were so much more friendly. Even if I buy the whole version, can I choose to "install" only the 130GB Gold version mic and content?


Here it fits on a 1 TB SSD.


----------



## Geomir

AndyP said:


> Here it fits on a 1 TB SSD.


Thanks! How much free space do you have in this specific SSD?


----------



## rogierhofboer

It also depends on Mac vs Win:
See 3.2.1 from page 59 of http://media.soundsonline.com/manuals/EW-Opus-Software-Manual.pdf

NB it also provides some details about the Stereo Double


----------



## AndyP

Geomir said:


> Thanks! How much free space do you have in this specific SSD?


I can't look that up right now. And frankly, I remember that I have it on a 2 TB SSD. I can't see how big the folder is until I get home, probably Wednesday or Thursday. Sorry for the first information.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Geomir said:


> Sorry if this has been asked before, but can the whole EWHO OPUS fit in an 1TB SSD? Its size (from what I've read from official sources) is close to 950GB, but the "real" free space of a freshly formatted 1TB drive is almost 930GB.
> 
> From the other side, I see that the HHD that EW uses to ship EWHO OPUS (for those who choose this option because of slow Internet) is 1TB. So this means that it fits?
> 
> Is there any source where I can see the size of each one of the seven sections?
> 
> And, last but not least, is there any way for someone (who was happy with the original EWHO Gold version) to stick with the EWHO OPUS Gold version? The default mic was very nice (not wet, not bone-dry), but also the requirements in disk space, RAM and CPU were so much more friendly. Even if I buy the whole version, can I choose to "install" only the 130GB Gold version mic and content?


Your SSDs will last longer when not filled beyond 75%. Maybe 85%, I would trust a bit if research over my memory. Consider two drives for it or a 2TB if you do not already own the 1TB. 

Also, does not Opus come with all of the mics?


----------



## Geomir

I have 3 x 1TB internal SSDs (all of the half-empty), so I am not planning to buy another one 2TB just for OPUS. It seems that if I ever want to buy it, I will have to split the 7 different sections to my various SSDs, no big deal I suppose.


----------



## Russell Anderson

I could see myself getting Opus as a layering library... Not fond of the crossfading clarinet legato and the brass seems similar sometimes, but I’ve only perused the walkthrough where for some reason they drenched everything in reverb. :|

The strings really sound good, though. Everything sounds at least pretty good, but as usual I don’t know if I should chalk that up to unfortunate demoing orthe capability of the samples and engine. I know HWO has long been regarded as extremely capable, just finnicky, and I don’t know how much of its potential was trimmed in the name of efficiency of programming (which is of course also very important). In the past, always to my surprise, some of the best entries in shootouts were Hollywood. 

Buying Opus now I assume gets you all of the Diamond mics and everything?


----------



## Geomir

Russell Anderson said:


> Buying Opus now I assume gets you all of the Diamond mics and everything?


Yes this is the case, there is only one version now (Diamond), and the prices are really tempting.


----------



## Hadrondrift

Sizes on disk of the various installed sections of Opus as reported by Windows on my PC:


NameSize [GiB]Size on disk [Bytes]Brass Diamond188202,675,982,336Harp Diamond14.315,379,750,912Orchestral Percussion Diamond69.874,954,350,592Orchestral Woodwinds Diamond177190,820,540,416Orchestrator< 148,832,512Solo Cello Diamond38.040,867,381,248Solo Violin Diamond36.439,086,354,432Strings Diamond350376,303,460,352

For a total of 875 GiB (940,136,652,800 Bytes).

An empty 1 TB disk is reported by Windows as having 931 GiB (1,000,202,039,296 Bytes).
Note: Windows incorrectly says "GB" when "GiB" would be formally correct.

I upgraded from Hollywood Orchestra Gold, can still use my old installation of HO Gold using PLAY, can't use Gold (16 Bit) from within the OPUS Player and can't use Opus Diamond from with PLAY, although it is displayed there. Quite satisfied with the upgrade for the current price of 295 USD (which for me resulted in 315 EUR including VAT).


----------



## Fleer

Thanks!
Does anyone have the same information on Mac?


----------



## Geomir

Hadrondrift said:


> Sizes on disk of the various installed section of Opus as reported for me by Windows:
> 
> 
> NameSize [GiB]Size on disk [Bytes]Brass Diamond188202,675,982,336Harp Diamond14.315,379,750,912Orchestral Percussion Diamond69.874,954,350,592Orchestral Woodwinds Diamond177190,820,540,416Orchestrator< 148,832,512Solo Cello Diamond38.040,867,381,248Solo Violin Diamond36.439,086,354,432Strings Diamond350376,303,460,352
> 
> For a total of 875 GiB (940,136,652,800 Bytes).
> 
> An empty 1 TB disk is reported by Windows as having 931 GiB (1,000,202,039,296 Bytes).
> Note: Windows incorrectly says "GB" when "GiB" would be formally correct.
> 
> I upgraded from Hollywood Orchestra Gold, can still use my old installation of HO Gold using PLAY, can't use Gold (16 Bit) from within the OPUS Player and can't use Opus Diamond from with PLAY, although it is displayed there. Quite satisfied with the upgrade for the current price of 295 USD (which for me resulted in 315 EUR including VAT).


Great info! Thank you!


----------



## rogierhofboer

Fleer said:


> Thanks!
> Does anyone have the same information on Mac?


In case no one can provide a real report from a Mac...

Since the reported number of GB for PC is only 1GB off from the number of GB stated in the OPUS Software manual, my guess is the manual should give a pretty good indication for Mac as well.

EDIT the difference seems to be mainly if GB or GiB is reported. For Mac 944 GB is reported for PC 874 GiB (but named GB), which is essentially the same thing. Mac uses factors of 1000 (Metric / Decimal) and PC factors of 1024 (IEC / Binary). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte


----------



## cedricm

Russell Anderson said:


> Your SSDs will last longer when not filled beyond 75%. Maybe 85%, I would trust a bit if research over my memory. Consider two drives for it or a 2TB if you do not already own the 1TB.
> 
> Also, does not Opus come with all of the mics?


The SSD should last a long time anyways, since there won't be much overwrites: samples aren't updated often, and generally only a limited amount of files are modified.

In addition, for any decent SSD, manufacturers already factor in a percentage of total capacity for wear.


----------



## Fleer

rogierhofboer said:


> In case no one can provide a real report from a Mac...
> 
> Since the reported number of GB for PC is only 1GB off from the number of GB stated in the OPUS Software manual, my guess is the manual should give a pretty good indication for Mac as well.
> 
> EDIT the difference seems to be mainly if GB or GiB is reported. For Mac 944 GB is reported for PC 874 GiB (but named GB), which is essentially the same thing. Mac uses factors of 1000 (Metric / Decimal) and PC factors of 1024 (IEC / Binary). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte


Thanks. 
Maybe I’d best first install it on a larger drive and then transfer it to the 1TB ssd.


----------



## EgM

Fleer said:


> Thanks!
> Does anyone have the same information on Mac?


APFS Volume (Size on disk)

Opus Brass Diamond 202.69 GB
Opus Percussion Diamond 74.97 GB
Opus Woodwinds Diamond 190.84 GB
Opus Strings Diamond 376.3 GB
Opus Solo Cello Diamond 40.89 GB
Opus Solo Violin Diamond 39.11 GB
Opus Harp Diamond 15.38 GB
Opus Orchestrator 48.9 MB


----------



## Fleer

EgM said:


> APFS Volume (Size on disk)
> 
> Opus Brass Diamond 202.69 GB
> Opus Percussion Diamond 74.97 GB
> Opus Woodwinds Diamond 190.84 GB
> Opus Strings Diamond 376.3 GB
> Opus Solo Cello Diamond 40.89 GB
> Opus Solo Violin Diamond 39.11 GB
> Opus Harp Diamond 15.38 GB
> Opus Orchestrator 48.9 MB


Thank you very much. At around 940GB a 1TB SSD should be fine.


----------



## racerx

Fleer said:


> Thank you very much. At around 940GB a 1TB SSD should be fine.


I would go with a larger SSD. Updates, or additional future OPUS instruments could put you over. Also, do SSD's carry OS overhead like HD's do? Meaning the quoted capacity vs delivered capacity was smaller.


----------



## Fleer

racerx said:


> I would go with a larger SSD. Updates, or additional future OPUS instruments could put you over. Also, do SSD's carry OS overhead like HD's do? Meaning the quoted capacity ve delivered capacity was smaller.


True, but I bought a few 1TB SSDs and having the entire HoOpus on one would be ideal.


----------



## racerx

I completely agree. You could always change in the future if needed too.


----------



## Fleer

I'm thinking of filling three 1TB SSDs:
- one with HoOpus
- one with BBCSO Pro
- one with choirs and solo instruments


----------



## EgM

If updates make it go over 1TB you could always put the Harp on another drive, it's not really hard on resources


----------



## muziksculp

Working with the OPUS Player is like being in a First Class cabin, Then... using a Kontakt, SINE, or Spitfire Engine Library feels like being downgraded to economy class, without being able to recline your seat.


----------



## handz

Fleer said:


> I'm thinking of filling three 1TB SSDs:
> - one with HoOpus
> - one with BBCSO Pro
> - one with choirs and solo instruments


Buy one large, never many small drives, SSD especially, larger = faster and cheaper.


----------



## Fleer

handz said:


> Buy one large, never many small drives, SSD especially, larger = faster and cheaper.


Too late


----------



## AndyP

handz said:


> Buy one large, never many small drives, SSD especially, larger = faster and cheaper.


So true! In the course of time you have to reorganize the hard drives and buy bigger ones anyway because the space is full at some point (VSL is my prime example). Or you just give VI-C and the deals areas a wide berth.


----------



## Fleer

Yep. When I bought my 1 TB SSDs they were the largest available


----------



## muziksculp

Fleer said:


> I'm thinking of filling three 1TB SSDs:
> - one with HoOpus
> - one with BBCSO Pro
> - one with choirs and solo instruments


That's a very good combination of libraries.


----------



## EgM

muziksculp said:


> Working with the OPUS Player is like being in a First Class cabin, Then... using a Kontakt, SINE, or Spitfire Engine Library feels like being downgraded to economy class, without being able to recline your seat.



I agree! EW has done an amazing job on this player


----------



## cqd

muziksculp said:


> Working with the OPUS Player is like being in a First Class cabin, Then... using a Kontakt, SINE, or Spitfire Engine Library feels like being downgraded to economy class, without being able to recline your seat.


The spitfire player kind of feels like you're hanging off the back of the plane, hoping it doesn't crash..


----------



## muziksculp

EgM said:


> I agree! EW has done an amazing job on this player


Yes, and imho. It's the best designed Sample Player I have used so far.

A big round of applause to EW for developing OPUS. I really feel they need to move forward with more new library development now that they have this awesome Player. Most of their current catalog is older libraries.


----------



## szczaw

muziksculp said:


> Yes, and imho. It's the best designed Sample Player I have used so far.


Some time ago I made a similar observation but encountered some unbelievers.


----------



## muziksculp

If EW develops new libraries that I feel I need, I wouldn't think twice about buying from another developer, mainly because of OPUS. It's a Win Win scenario. The Best Player, and Top Notch new Libraries go hand in hand. I'm sure we just have to give them some time, and this will happen.

Exciting times ahead.


----------



## cqd

I think they'll surely revamp the choir next..
Like, the wordbuildr is still clunky as fnck..
Add a childrens choir..
Shaft us all on the upgrade price again..


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> I think they'll surely revamp the choir next..
> Like, the wordbuildr is still clunky as fnck..
> Add a childrens choir..
> Shaft us all on the upgrade price again..


Haha.. I just purchased Hollywood Choirs. (on sale). 

As I mentioned, most of their current library catalog is from years ago. Time to move forward in that area of their company, now that they got OPUS.


----------



## cqd

But yeah, it's only ok the choir, unless you master the wordbuilder..I didn't think the extra mics in diamond added much..
When you compare the wordbuilder to genesis or dominus its like night and day..
I came across a video of someone using it in the background singers yesterday and watched a minute of it before going 'That looks like a pain in the hole..'


----------



## cqd

Yeah, just thinking here, a revamped wordbuilder for the opus age would be nice..


----------



## muziksculp

New Orchestral Solo Instruments to complement HOOSPUS, would be nice. 

RA 2, SILK 2, GYPSY 2, all new, more deeply sampled libraries.


----------



## Breaker

I have pretty much ignored this thread for the last year but is the upgrade price from HO really the same regardless if you have Gold or Diamond?
EastWest never ceases to amaze me.


----------



## BassClef

Breaker said:


> I have pretty much ignored this thread for the last year but is the upgrade price from HO really the same regardless if you have Gold or Diamond?
> EastWest never ceases to amaze me.


Yes. The ONLY East West library that I owned was Hollywood Percussion GOLD. And that got me the upgrade to the FULL Hollywood Orchestra Diamond - Opus edition, for the discounted price of $295!


----------



## rnb_2

BassClef said:


> Yes. The ONLY East West library that I owned was Hollywood Percussion GOLD. And that got me the upgrade to the FULL Hollywood Orchestra Diamond - Opus edition, for the discounted price of $295!


If only there were old single Hollywood libraries out there for sale somewhere, yearning to be upgraded.


----------



## cqd

Lads, can ye not keep bringing it up please?..
Some of us got shafted with the introductory price..


----------



## odod

muziksculp said:


> New Orchestral Solo Instruments to complement HOOSPUS, would be nice.
> 
> RA 2, SILK 2, GYPSY 2, all new, more deeply sampled libraries.


does Silk still worthy this year?


----------



## Breaker

BassClef said:


> Yes. The ONLY East West library that I owned was Hollywood Percussion GOLD. And that got me the upgrade to the FULL Hollywood Orchestra Diamond - Opus edition, for the discounted price of $295!


That sounds like a glitch, I thought you would at least need to have the whole orchestra in order to upgrade.

I could consider upgrading for ~150 USD, but 300 is way off.


----------



## Casiquire

BassClef said:


> Yes. The ONLY East West library that I owned was Hollywood Percussion GOLD. And that got me the upgrade to the FULL Hollywood Orchestra Diamond - Opus edition, for the discounted price of $295!


Shouldn't it be 345? 

This thread is far too large and in depth for me to be able to easily see an answer, 
but real quick short answer, how are the winds now? Do they integrate well with the other instruments and perform better and more consistently than before? I found the expression unconvincing and uninspiring before but i believe the recordings are good, so i could easily see it being fixed in programming


----------



## BassClef

$345? NO... $295

I had no experience with the prior woodwinds library but have been told that it is improved in Opus.


----------



## Markrs

Breaker said:


> That sounds like a glitch, I thought you would at least need to have the whole orchestra in order to upgrade.
> 
> I could consider upgrading for ~150 USD, but 300 is way off.


Others have contacted EastWest and they have confirmed the deal, that any Hollywood Orchestra library Gold or Diamond can be used to upgrade to the full Hollywood Orchestra Diamond Opus at the $295 upgrade price


----------



## cedricm

muziksculp said:


> Yes, and imho. It's the best designed Sample Player I have used so far.
> 
> A big round of applause to EW for developing OPUS. I really feel they need to move forward with more new library development now that they have this awesome Player. Most of their current catalog is older libraries.


Opus was made with Wolfgang Kundrus, of Cubase/Nuendo/Studio One fame, and Wolfgang Scheneider, creator of Kontakt.
Pretty sure the developers behind the Orchestrator were the ones behind Sonuscore The Orchestra.


----------



## muziksculp

cedricm said:


> Opus was made with Wolfgang Kundrus, of Cubase/Nuendo/Studio One fame, and Wolfgang Scheneider, creator of Kontakt.
> Pretty sure the developers behind the Orchestrator were the ones behind Sonuscore The Orchestra.


Thanks for the info. They did a fantastic job designing OPUS Player. They deserve a best instrument design award. Actually I voted for OPUS Orch. in SOS magazine just a few days ago.


----------



## cedricm

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the info. They did a fantastic job designing OPUS Player. They deserve a best instrument design award. Actually I voted for OPUS Orch. in SOS magazine just a few days ago.


So did I!


----------



## Breaker

Markrs said:


> Others have contacted EastWest and they have confirmed the deal, that any Hollywood Orchestra library Gold or Diamond can be used to upgrade to the full Hollywood Orchestra Diamond Opus at the $295 upgrade price


OK, thanks for the recap.
I basically gave up on EW a few years back and this is a good reminder why.


----------



## szczaw

Simply ignore new releases and buy when there's a sale.


----------



## markleake

Breaker said:


> OK, thanks for the recap.
> I basically gave up on EW a few years back and this is a good reminder why.





szczaw said:


> Simply ignore new releases and buy when there's a sale.


Yep, this has been my approach to EW for years (not that I buy stuff from them in years, but I'm considering OPUS now it's cheaper).

Their whole business model is built around higher initial price for new products that then drop in price considerably, and have big sale discounts.

If you can wait, you do.


----------



## Learningtomix

I purchased HOOPUS.  My BF this year will likely be quiet as a consequence.

My, my, the library is large! I'm getting 5mb per second tops and at the current rate of download i'm looking at several days until it's all ready to play. Though by many of the accounts here it should be worth the wait!

I remember reading on this thread that the orchestrator requires the whole library before it can be used, but was wondering whether Opus would work with a subset of instruments. If someone knows, an answer would be appreciated. So far i've got the harp, and brass, but only a few more hours until the percussion is completed.


----------



## cedricm

Learningtomix said:


> I purchased HOOPUS.  My BF this year will likely be quiet as a consequence.
> 
> My, my, the library is large! I'm getting 5mb per second tops and at the current rate of download i'm looking at several days until it's all ready to play. Though by many of the accounts here it should be worth the wait!
> 
> I remember reading on this thread that the orchestrator requires the whole library before it can be used, but was wondering whether Opus would work with a subset of instruments. If someone knows, an answer would be appreciated. So far i've got the harp, and brass, but only a few more hours until the percussion is completed.


I'm pretty sure you can work in Opus with a subset of the instruments - try it!


----------



## Learningtomix

cedricm said:


> I'm pretty sure you can work in Opus with a subset of the instruments - try it!


Thanks cedricm - i'll give it a try!


----------



## BluesCat

In case anyone is considering purchasing on SSD from EastWest, I just received mine, and posted a quick-look over at https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index....o-opus-edition/&do=findComment&comment=288918


----------



## Kabraxis

Most of my instruments (except Hollywood ones) disappeared from OPUS interface. When I try to manually add them, it says "The file ProductInfo.ew could not be found."

Has anyone had that?


----------



## SlHarder

Kabraxis said:


> Most of my instruments (except Hollywood ones) disappeared from OPUS interface.








How to Get Started with EastWest Libraries, Plugins & More


EastWest's Getting Started guides teach you the basics of ComposerCloud, how to use the Sound Data Hard Drives, EastWest Libraries, VST plugins & more.




www.soundsonline.com





Submit a case, at the bottom of this page. Support has always been very responsive for me.


----------



## musicalweather

BluesCat said:


> In case anyone is considering purchasing on SSD from EastWest, I just received mine, and posted a quick-look over at https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index....o-opus-edition/&do=findComment&comment=288918


Thanks for posting this. I was curious about what kind of drive EW actually sends, since they don't specify on their site. I _almost_ wish I had ordered the hard drive instead of downloading. (I'm on day 3 of downloading - should be done today. Yay!) But I am glad I have HOOPUS on an internal SSD.


----------



## MarcusD

Kabraxis said:


> Most of my instruments (except Hollywood ones) disappeared from OPUS interface. When I try to manually add them, it says "The file ProductInfo.ew could not be found."
> 
> Has anyone had that?


Two things to try...

Open your EW installation centre. Click the three lines then go to "Library Directories" and double check your library locations are added.

Click the three lines again then go to "Reconnect Libraries"







After doing this Open up OPUS and see if the list is displaying your libraries again. If not try clicking the ⚙️ icon and go to "install product" then navigate to the directory for the library and see if you can add it.






Afterwards go back to EW installation centre and try reconnect the libraries again. Hopefully this will solve it! I get the same error when OPUS can't find the library location, usually when I'm trying to connect to my PC on the network or when I move the library location, or when the SSD is plugged into a different USB.


----------



## ned3000

Just wanted to jump in again to gripe that even with all the updates to date, they STILL haven't fixed memory management for multiple copies of the same instruments. 

Load up 4 french horns, take exactly 4x the memory. This is a huge step backwards from Play where that problem didn't exist. Very frustrating, as I am a big fan of the sound of these samples, and the Opus player has vastly better keyswitching functionality, but I'm still forced to use the clunky Play versions.

EastWest, please fix this!


----------



## markwind

I was a little bit on the fence, as a HO owner for the play engine. But pulled the trigger today and so far its an absolute wonder. Soundwise, Engine wise, programming wise. It all feels like I can put Play to rest. Its reliable, flexible, no stuck notes (at least so far, which is already an improvement over Play for me) its flexible when skipping around the project during playback. Just all round solid piece of sampler software which to me is already worth the investment. Let alone all the extra upgrades to existing libs.

Well done, well done indeed!


----------



## acreich

BluesCat said:


> In case anyone is considering purchasing on SSD from EastWest, I just received mine, and posted a quick-look over at https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index....o-opus-edition/&do=findComment&comment=288918


So a 1TB drive WILL be enough!


----------



## acreich

cedricm said:


> Pretty sure the developers behind the Orchestrator were the ones behind Sonuscore The Orchestra.


They were. They wrote about on their website. So it's a very similar system, just with better samples.









EastWest releases Hollywood Strings Opus Edition, including the Orchestrator


How can an already amazing orchestra VST be made even better? The answer didn’t come easy, but the teams at EastWest and Sonuscore managed to do just that.




sonuscore.com


----------



## Geomir

acreich said:


> So a 1TB drive WILL be enough!


True, it just fits, and this is a good thing for now, but there are 2 small "problems" with that:

1) If/when a content update (or a big patch) is released in the future, then there will not be enough space, and it will be very inconvenient to find a solution after you have arranged all your libraries in your existing SSDs and you are in the middle of a project.
2) An SSD's performance dramatically declines when it is almost full. It is recommended that you never store data that exceed the 70%-80% of its capacity.


----------



## newbreednet

Geomir said:


> 2) An SSD's performance dramatically declines when it is almost full. It is recommended that you never store data that exceed the 70%-80% of it's capacity.


Only true for system (OS) drives. When it comes to sample-only drives, I've quoted EvilDragon before on this - "fill 'em to the brim!" 

Honestly it's fine to stick 1TB of samples on a 1TB drive.


----------



## AndyP

newbreednet said:


> Only true for system (OS) drives. When it comes to sample-only drives, I've quoted EvilDragon before on this - "fill 'em to the brim!"
> 
> Honestly it's fine to stick 1TB of samples on a 1TB drive.


This! I have SSD's where only 5-10. GB are free, they run like clockwork (as long as I don't try to put more on them).


----------



## khollister

Strings, Brass, Perc, Woodwinds, Harp and Orchestrator take up 857 GB according to Finder on my Mac. I don't have the solo strings installed


----------



## acreich

One more question for those of you who use it for a while: how much do you actually use the orchestrator in your work process? From what I understand you can do all the things you do in the orchestrator in the DAW directly. (And I don't know about the limits of the orchestrator - like is it limited to 4, 8, 16 bars ...?) It sounds like a nice toy, but I wonder if I would use it (maybe I am just saying it because I am used to do these things in the DAW directly ...)

If you are using it regularly, does it speed up your work? Is it giving you different options? Is it limiting your options compared to do the thing in the DAW directly? And is the orchestrator using more RAM than using single insturments would, or rather less?


----------



## rnb_2

newbreednet said:


> Only true for system (OS) drives. When it comes to sample-only drives, I've quoted EvilDragon before on this - "fill 'em to the brim!"
> 
> Honestly it's fine to stick 1TB of samples on a 1TB drive.


And also less true the larger the SSD - there’s a big difference between 25GB available on a 250GB drive and 400GB available on a 4TB drive.


----------



## cqd

I'm just adding the ensembles to my template at the minute, and man, they're nearly too good..I kinda want to put them all in..don't overlook them..


----------



## muziksculp

Q. When multiple instruments are loaded into an instance of OPUS, all set to OMNI channel. So they trigger, i.e for creating an Ensemble. If is there a way to get all of them to be set to the same Reverb setting ? 

It seems like I have to set each one to the Instruments in the OPUS instance to the same reverb setting manually. There is no way to do it globally. (this might be a nice feature to add to OPUS if not possible), to speed up workflow. 

Thanks.


----------



## cqd

Is there a master reverb button or something that does that?..


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> Is there a master reverb button or something that does that?..


There is, but it doesn't change the Reverb settings/selection for all the loaded instruments in an instance of OPUS. So, there is no Master functionality for a bunch of loaded instruments, which synchs their Reverb settings. I also would like it if I could have the Mic options sync'd so, I don't have to enable the mics for each instrument in an instance manually.


----------



## cqd

Try using the orchestrator for ensembles too..


----------



## cqd

muziksculp said:


> There is, but it doesn't change the Reverb settings/selection for all the loaded instruments in an instance of OPUS.


Is that not what it's supposed to do?..they all go to the first reverb?..


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> Is that not what it's supposed to do?..they all go to the first reverb?..


I don't know if that's the case, I will have to double check this. 

Thanks.


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> Try using the orchestrator for ensembles too..


Funny you say that, I haven't even touched the Orchestrator in OPUS, leaving it for more fun later. 

I eventually will check it out.


----------



## cqd

muziksculp said:


> Funny you say that, I haven't even touched the Orchestrator in OPUS, leaving it for more fun later.
> 
> I eventually will check it out.


Dude..there's a load of preset ensembles in it..full ones..string ones..wind ones..brass ones..they don't take too much ram..they sound recorded..they're another really good selling point of this library I reckon. .stop what you're doing right now and go and play with them..


----------



## BassClef

muziksculp said:


> There is, but it doesn't change the Reverb settings/selection for all the loaded instruments in an instance of OPUS. So, there is no Master functionality for a bunch of loaded instruments, which synchs their Reverb settings. I also would like it if I could have the Mic options sync'd so, I don't have to enable the mics for each instrument in an instance manually.


If I read the manual correctly... if you select one of the instruments in the multi (from the left panel) and then click the MASTER button in the reverb section, those reverb settings will be applied to ALL of those instrument even though it will not change the reverb settings you see for each of the other instruments.


----------



## muziksculp

BassClef said:


> If I read the manual correctly... if you select one of the instruments in the multi (from the left panel) and then click the MASTER button in the reverb section, those reverb settings will be applied to ALL of those instrument even though it will not change the reverb settings you see for each of the other instruments.


OH.. I see. So it's an optical illusion,  they are actually set to the Master reverb, but don't reflect it in their GUI's . I will check.

Thanks


----------



## muziksculp

BassClef said:


> If I read the manual correctly... if you select one of the instruments in the multi (from the left panel) and then click the MASTER button in the reverb section, those reverb settings will be applied to ALL of those instrument even though it will not change the reverb settings you see for each of the other instruments.


Yes, confirmed. The MASTER button does change the reverb setting of all other instruments in the OPUS player instance, but the Reverb showing on each instrument does not reflect that visually. So it's a bit deceiving if you didn't realize what's happening. 

Thanks for the helpful feedback.


----------



## Henu

Apologies if this has been asked before, but when downloading a single instrument (which is absolutely SUPERB idea!) for testing it out, is there a way to delete the download from the OPUS interface or do I have to delete the folder manually via explorer?


----------



## cqd

I must say..being able to put the legato speed on a fader and adjust to suit is immense too..


----------



## Markrs




----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> I must say..being able to put the legato speed on a fader and adjust to suit is immense too..


Hi @cqd 

A Question: Does the Legato Speed affect the simulated Legatos of the library, plus the real recorded legato transition ? 

I'm under the impression that once you enable the legato button you are using the simulated legato function, so the speed will be for the simulated legatos only. 

Is this right ? or ... ? 

Thanks.


----------



## cqd

muziksculp said:


> Hi @cqd
> 
> A Question: Does the Legato Speed affect the simulated Legatos of the library, plus the real recorded legato transition ?
> 
> I'm under the impression that once you enable the legato button you are using the simulated legato function, so the speed will be for the simulated legatos only.
> 
> Is this right ? or ... ?
> 
> Thanks.


I'm using it with the mono solo legato enabled anyway..should probably work with the other legato too..just assign the cc(5 maybe?..says in the box) to a fader, and it does make it more expressive..higher for slower passages etc..really cool..


----------



## muziksculp

cqd said:


> I'm using it with the mono solo legato enabled anyway..should probably work with the other legato too..just assign the cc(5 maybe?..says in the box) to a fader, and it does make it more expressive..higher for slower passages etc..really cool..


Thanks. 

I need to refer to the OPUS user manual to learn about this feature in OPUS, and what it does exactly.


----------



## muziksculp

It seems like the focus of most HOOPUS music demos are for epic game/soundtrack genre.

I wonder if there are any demos of HOOPUS, or the previous HO version doing more Romantic/Classical oriented music ?


----------



## handz

muziksculp said:


> It seems like the focus of most HOOPUS music demos are for epic game/soundtrack genre.
> 
> I wonder if there are any demos of HOOPUS, or the previous HO version doing more Romantic/Classical oriented music ?


There are plenty for original HS,








And they sound pretty damn good but the problem is, they are from TJ and he has some damn skills

but others did some nice nonepic demos as well


For Brass there are some really beautiful pieces too


----------



## Petrucci

Here are some of my not-so-epic tracks done with EWHOD using Play..! Only suspended cymbals are mostly from EWQLSO and there is one track with JB violin. Hope it won't do disservice to HO..!  









Growing a Garden (Little Stories OST)


One more track I produced for the new story "Growing a Garden" in our mobile app for kids and their parents "Little Stories". All the instruments are from East West Hollywood Orchestra and some Suspen




soundcloud.app.goo.gl












Strall of Kindness (Little Stories OST)


One more track I produced for the new story "A Fun Walk" in our mobile app for kids and their parents "Little Stories". All the instruments are from East West Hollywood Orchestra and some Suspended Cy




soundcloud.app.goo.gl












Change of Seasons (Little Stories OST)


One more track I wrote for the new story in our mobile app for kids and their parents "Little Stories". All the instruments except violin and suspended cymbals are from East West Hollywood Orchestra)




soundcloud.app.goo.gl












Fast Cow (Little Stories OST)


Here's one more track I wrote this year for one of new stories in our Little Stories mobile app for kids and their parents :) It is a story about one actually very fast cow) Everything's done here wit




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


----------



## Jobreu

I’m using Opus in Logic, all runs perfectly fine. I’m using Opus in Studio One and its a nightmare. Everything sounds much quieter, I have a delay.…. harder to Quantize… What’s wrong with me???


----------



## Jobreu

Is it my fault ? Or is anyone else seeing a difference from using opus in Logic over Studio One


----------



## muziksculp

I'm using OPUS in Studio One Pro 5.4.1, it runs like a charm, no issues at all. I'm on Windows 10, you are on Mac OS. , actually I'm impressed with the performance of OPUS. Running any of EW's libraries, including Hollywood Orchestra.

I don't think any Mac Studio One Pro 5 users have posted any issues about it. Maybe check your Studio One Settings. 

Sorry, that's all the feedback I have. I hope you find the cause of the problem, and fix it.


----------



## Jobreu

That's my question.... how do i figure out what's causes the problem.

Btw, do you ever have that Studio One does not give the proper automation names when using VST3? It will just use teh channel numbers instead of the name like Expression and Volume...


----------



## muziksculp

Jobreu said:


> Btw, do you ever have that Studio One does not give the proper automation names when using VST3? It will just use teh channel numbers instead of the name like Expression and Volume...


Yes, but I don't think it's because of VST3 format, i.e. When using Hollywood OPUS orch. Expression shows up a CC 11 in the automation tabs, but when using Kontakt 6 (VST3) it shows up as Expression. Both are VST 3 Instruments. So, I'm not sure what determines that, it could be dependent on the implementation of the instrument automation parameters.


Jobreu said:


> That's my question.... how do i figure out what's causes the problem.


Since I'm not on a Mac, I think you need some help from other Mac users of S1Pro 5.4.1 , there are many settings that can have an impact, i.e. What do you have set for 'Drop Out Protection' in the Audio Preferences ? You should set it to 'Minimum' .

What is your RAM buffer setting of your Audio Interface ? 

I hope you get your S1Pro issues sorted out. I know it's a pain dealing with these type of issues, but be patient, and persistent, keep working at resolving it, and you will fix the problem. Studio One is a very popular DAW, you could also post the issues you have on the Presonus Studio One user forum, there are support members on that forum, that can help you out.

Cheers & Good Luck,
Muziksculp


----------



## Jobreu

Thank you!


----------



## khollister

I owned HO Diamond and have a CC+ sub to try out HOOPUS and a few other things. I was trying to troubleshoot some weirdness with Oboe legatos (more on that later) and discovered that even if I moved the entire Woodwinds folder so that the EW Installer thought it wasn't installed, the download option only downloads the OPUS new content, not the original HW sample content. How would I restore everything?


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I Have HOOPUS installed, I noticed I can also install the HO.Platinum version of the orchestral sections.

i.e. HO.Platinum Strings, which is around 48.3 GB. Would I gain anything if I install it ? does it have specific patches that are not in the HOOPUS version ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## RogiervG

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I Have HOOPUS installed, I noticed I can also install the HO.Platinum version of the orchestral sections.
> 
> i.e. HO.Platinum Strings, which is around 48.3 GB. Would I gain anything if I install it ? does it have specific patches that are not in the HOOPUS version ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


Platinum? don't you mean diamond? there never was a platinum edition of HO
or are you referring to the older EWQL SO?
I guess you do mean the latter... seeing the size: only 48.3GB


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## RogiervG

muziksculp said:


>


Ah, as i thought, the EWQL SO (symphonic Orchestra), not HO (hollywood Orchestra)

Still weird you can also download that? (with activated status even).. since there is no mentioning of that being included in the HO OPUS version.

Anyway.. the SO is a different product and as such has a different sound character.
I also heard it has some nice patches, that cannot be found in the HO.


----------



## muziksculp

As you can see I'm downloading the Symphonic Orchestra Plat. Strings only.

I will check what this offers.


----------



## muziksculp

I think it might have some String Runs that are not included in the HOOPUS strings edition, but I'm not sure, and possibly some other articulations.

Maybe some EW Library experts can provide some feedback on this.

Thanks.


----------



## jamieboo

EW Symphonic Orchestra is a much older product. I have still have Platinum but I don't use it much apart from some bits and pieces from the percussion section.
It's still got a nice sound, but it's dated - no true legato etc.
To be clear: this is an entirely different product to Hollywood Orchestra.


----------



## muziksculp

jamieboo said:


> EW Symphonic Orchestra is a much older product. I have still have Platinum but I don't use it much apart from some bits and pieces from the percussion section.
> It's still got a nice sound, but it's dated - no true legato etc.
> To be clear: this is an entirely different product to Hollywood Orchestra.


Thanks for the feedback.

Well, I Installed only the Strings , so I will test if they are worth keeping, a total of a 48.3 GBs. , otherwise I can just delete it.


----------



## muziksculp

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I love the room sound of EWQLSO. Wish it was a modern library with legato etc.


Do you know Where EWQLSO was recorded ? 

So, it has a very different character sound compared to the current Hollywood Orch.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

muziksculp said:


> Do you know Where EWQLSO was recorded ?
> 
> So, it has a very different character sound compared to the current Hollywood Orch.


EastWest Studios


----------



## ip20

Benaroya Hall in Seattle.


----------



## Geomir

EWQLSO was not recorded in EastWest Studios. It was recorded in Benaroya Hall in Seattle. It was something like a common secret back then. No I wasn't around, but I found out about it after some thorough Internet research!









Benaroya Hall - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Geomir

ip20 said:


> Benaroya Hall in Seattle.


Oh crap you beat me for 1 min!


----------



## ip20

Back then, the only way to do legato was with dry and close (VSL). 

EWQLSO went with the natural space and positioning (hall/mic) approach.

Each had pros and cons.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback on where EWQLSO was recorded.

So, this gives this EWQLSO a totally different vibe than the ones recorded in the EW Studios. 

Maybe more reverberant and lively compared to EW-Studios sonic character. I wonder if it is worth downloading the some of the other Sections of EWQSLO, i.e. maybe the Perc. and Brass ?

Anyone using EWQLSO Plat. but also has HOOPUS installed ?


----------



## muziksculp

OK, just for fun, and because I can, I decided to download not just the EWQLSO Plat. Strings, but the rest of the sections as well (Brass, Woodwinds, Perc.) , and see how I like the sound, and playability, they will be running in the OPUS player, not in PLAY, I'm also guessing they should be super efficient running in OPUS.


----------



## Nashi_VI

muziksculp said:


> OK, just for fun, and because I can, I decided to download not just the EWQLSO Plat. Strings, but the rest of the sections as well (Brass, Woodwinds, Perc.) , and see how I like the sound, and playability, they will be running in the OPUS player, not in PLAY, I'm also guessing they should be super efficient running in OPUS.


There are definitely some hidden gems in there, for example, just to name a few, i personally really like the cellos spiccato and the orchestral FX.


----------



## muziksculp

I have been listening to some older demos produced using EWQLSO Gold, and Plat. on YouTube.

I like what I'm hearing. Very rich sound, with a lot of character, and very lively.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ip20 said:


> Benaroya Hall in Seattle.


My mistake! I don't thing EastWest Studios was actually open until 2009(?)


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Nashi_VI said:


> There are definitely some hidden gems in there, for example, just to name a few, i personally really like the cellos spiccato and the orchestral FX.


I still use those FX, plus I still use the percussion for nearly all of my orch percussion parts. Also still love the Steinway, harpsichord and celeste.


----------



## cedricm

Is purchasing EWHO Opus the only way to upgrade from Play to Opus will most other EW libraries?


----------



## jamieboo

Yeah, I find myself using the Steinway, and when I need something texturally eerie I'll use the waterphone.
But I often hear of people with HO who still use traditional orchestral percussion instruments from EWQLSO. What is it that makes you reach for the older library rather than HO percussion?


----------



## Petrucci

jamieboo said:


> Yeah, I find myself using the Steinway, and when I need something texturally eerie I'll use the waterphone.
> But I often hear of people with HO who still use traditional orchestral percussion instruments from EWQLSO. What is it that makes you reach for the older library rather than HO percussion?


I love suspended cymbals from EWQLSO - much longer crescendos than in HO!)


----------



## Casiquire

Casiquire said:


> This thread is far too large and in depth for me to be able to easily see an answer,
> but real quick short answer, how are the winds now? Do they integrate well with the other instruments and perform better and more consistently than before? I found the expression unconvincing and uninspiring before but i believe the recordings are good, so i could easily see it being fixed in programming


Bump


----------



## muziksculp

I started checking out the EWQLSO Plat. Perc section, and I love it 🧡 😎 👍

I'm so glad I didn't just stare at the download option of EWQLSO Plat. in the EW Installer App. , but took action, and installed the library. I will be surely using EWQLSO Plat. , I'm sure I will find some gems in this library, love the acoustics as well, super lively.


----------



## muziksculp

jamieboo said:


> Yeah, I find myself using the Steinway, and when I need something texturally eerie I'll use the waterphone.
> But I often hear of people with HO who still use traditional orchestral percussion instruments from EWQLSO. What is it that makes you reach for the older library rather than HO percussion?


One thing for sure that makes them wonderful sounding, is the acoustics of the hall ! Right out of the Box, no need for Reverb. Just play them, and they sound wonderful. 

The Perc. instruments sound so alive, and rich. I haven't checked the rest of the EWQLSO Plat. sections, but will do so gradually.


----------



## EgM

Jobreu said:


> I’m using Opus in Logic, all runs perfectly fine. I’m using Opus in Studio One and its a nightmare. Everything sounds much quieter, I have a delay.…. harder to Quantize… What’s wrong with me???


This is not related to Studio One, if it's quieter it means your audio interface is not set properly, choose your audio device as ASIO if you're using it under Windows


----------



## EgM

Jobreu said:


> That's my question.... how do i figure out what's causes the problem.
> 
> Btw, do you ever have that Studio One does not give the proper automation names when using VST3? It will just use teh channel numbers instead of the name like Expression and Volume...


In Studio One, use VST2 (not VST3 essentially) I think there's a bug in vst3 controllers reporting to the DAW, I'm also experiencing it


----------



## EgM

I've loaded a project that was on a remote VEP Project (2020) calling a diamond strings patch and all the tracks loaded blank in VEP. They loaded Play, but no instruments were loaded

I've had to reload all the EW patches through Play manually.

Is this related to upgrading to Opus? I have Opus diamond and CCX

Either way, Opus rocks!


----------



## Geomir

cedricm said:


> Is purchasing EWHO Opus the only way to upgrade from Play to Opus will most other EW libraries?


No, you just need to purchase any EW library. This will give you the Opus Engine for free (for all your libraries, OTHER THAN EWHO Legacy - this one will require Play 6 for ever)!

If you purchase directly from EW, then they will make it for you automatically, but if you buy it from a 3rd party store, you may need to send a message to EW support so they activate the Opus license for you.


----------



## Geomir

muziksculp said:


> One thing for sure that makes them wonderful sounding, is the acoustics of the hall ! Right out of the Box, no need for Reverb. Just play them, and they sound wonderful.
> 
> The Perc. instruments sound so alive, and rich. I haven't checked the rest of the EWQLSO Plat. sections, but will do so gradually.


Everything you describe here is the reason why EWQLSO still gets a lot of love, and why it will always be in my ssd drive, even if I own newer "next-gen" libraries, technologically more advanced, with true legato, etc...

The percussion (both tuned and un-pitched) is fantastic, not only the sound, but also the great variety of the included instruments.

Also the naturally-recorded sound of the big hall, if that's what you seek, cannot be replaced by artificial reverbs.

Now as others have mentioned, the concert harp, grand piano, and harpsichord are decent and very usable, and they add even more value to the library.

The main orchestral sections (strings - brass - woodwinds) still sound good, but I suppose that if you own more modern orchestral libraries (i.e. from companies like VSL, Orchestral Tools or Spitfire), you are not going to use them so much. I use them most of the times only for layering (especially the strings and the brass).


----------



## mxbf

I bought this. I probably shouldn't have. I've been wanting those close mic positions for a long time to give me access to a more aggressive and physical sound than what I have in VSL Syncron.

Also the Orchestral Percussion in the Synchron Editions you can get is pretty bad. I needed a dedicated percussion library but I was also looking at CinPerc which is on sale. I may have made a mistake. I probably should have bought CinPerc and skipped this but I've been wanting Platinum (edit: Diamond, that is) for a long time and at least now I don't have to want it anymore, because now I have it.

I just really want those Agogos and all that nonsense that's in CinPerc too.


----------



## EgM

mxbf said:


> I bought this. I probably shouldn't have. I've been wanting those close mic positions for a long time to give me access to a more aggressive and physical sound than what I have in VSL Syncron.
> 
> Also the Orchestral Percussion in the Synchron Editions you can get is pretty bad. I needed a dedicated percussion library but I was also looking at CinPerc which is on sale. I may have made a mistake. I probably should have bought CinPerc and skipped this but I've been wanting Platinum (edit: Diamond, that is) for a long time and at least now I don't have to want it anymore, because now I have it.
> 
> I just really want those Agogos and all that nonsense that's in CinPerc too.


I don't think you've made any mistake, EWHO under Opus is a serious tool for composition for either epic or classical. You have to play with the expression controller (CC11) or the modwheel (CC1) which is used for velocity crossfade and/or vibrato depending on the instrument. All the professional libraries use these controllers, Spitfire, OT, Cinesamples, etc.

Sorry if you already know these tips, I don't want to be condescending... I have no idea if you've used the product before. But all I gotta say is that ANYONE can create a superb song with EWHO Opus edition as long as you learn how to use it, I mean listen to the demos 

You want aggressive that's ok but do you use a midi keyboard or input notes by mouse/keyboard? If you do, then you need to use the CC1/CC11 midi controllers by drawing.


----------



## mxbf

EgM said:


> I don't think you've made any mistake, EWHO under Opus is a serious tool for composition for either epic or classical. You have to play with the expression controller (CC11) or the modwheel (CC1) which is used for velocity crossfade and/or vibrato depending on the instrument. All the professional libraries use these controllers, Spitfire, OT, Cinesamples, etc.
> 
> Sorry if you already know these tips, I don't want to be condescending... I have no idea if you've used the product before. But all I gotta say is that ANYONE can create a superb song with EWHO Opus edition as long as you learn how to use it, I mean listen to the demos
> 
> You want aggressive that's ok but do you use a midi keyboard or input notes by mouse/keyboard? If you do, then you need to use the CC1/CC11 midi controllers by drawing.


thanks for the tips. i am happy with my purchase. Opus blows Play out of the water. everything loads instantaneously. they really knocked it out of the park. The fact that I now own the Diamond version of this library is very exciting, for a good price as well. All things considered 600 dollars for this product is actually a deal.

The biggest thing holding back the old EWHO was the Play software. Everything was clunky to load and it was not pleasant to use. But in my opinion it always sounded phenomenal. People would knock it, but if you listen to some demos made with it its clearly one of the best sounding orchestral libraries - largely due to the 4 mics. I never wanted Gold, it's ultimately the close and mid mic that make this library stand out over other options.

The only comparable option I can think of is BBC Orchestra or one of the Spitfire libraries. Personally I doubt those can compete with this deal. You get an entire orchestra with 4 mic positions, including a fully featured percussion library with all required articulations. That sets it over the edge. And remember, you get the close and mid mics for those Bass Drums and Timpani. That's killer.

It's a powerful library and now that you don't have to wait 20 seconds to load an articulation, it just actually feels joyful to use. I'm glad I got it. I'm still thinking about snagging something like CinePerc. I am itching to acquire a library that contains a lot of fringe instruments to give more exotic colors to my compositions.


----------



## pcarrilho

Geomir said:


> Everything you describe here is the reason why EWQLSO still gets a lot of love, and why it will always be in my ssd drive, even if I own newer "next-gen" libraries, technologically more advanced, with true legato, etc...
> 
> The percussion (both tuned and un-pitched) is fantastic, not only the sound, but also the great variety of the included instruments.
> 
> Also the naturally-recorded sound of the big hall, if that's what you seek, cannot be replaced by artificial reverbs.
> 
> Now as others have mentioned, the concert harp, grand piano, and harpsichord are decent and very usable, and they add even more value to the library.
> 
> The main orchestral sections (strings - brass - woodwinds) still sound good, but I suppose that if you own more modern orchestral libraries (i.e. from companies like VSL, Orchestral Tools or Spitfire), you are not going to use them so much. I use them most of the times only for layering (especially the strings and the brass).


Well, i on the oposite side. I have all ew libs, spitfire abbey road bbcsobpro, some OT and some other brands. My go to is still EW, second by abbey road


----------



## Geomir

pcarrilho said:


> Well, i on the oposite side. I have all ew libs, spitfire abbey road bbcsobpro, some OT and some other brands. My go to is still EW, second by abbey road


I was talking about the old EastWest Symphonic Orchestra, not about the new Hollywood Orchestra OPUS Edition. Just saying, in case you got confused.

I couldn't imagine that anyone would prefer to use EW Symphonic Orchestra over Spitfire BBC SO Pro, Abbey Road and Orchestral Tools libraries.


----------



## pcarrilho

Geomir said:


> I was talking about the old EastWest Symphonic Orchestra, not about the new Hollywood Orchestra OPUS Edition. Just saying, in case you got confused.
> 
> I couldn't imagine that anyone would prefer to use EW Symphonic Orchestra over Spitfire BBC SO Pro, Abbey Road and Orchestral Tools libraries.


oh sorry... I did not realize you was talking about the old one... sorry!


----------



## Geoff Grace

Jeremy Spencer said:


> My mistake! I don't thing EastWest Studios was actually open until 2009(?)


Actually, EastWest Studios has a storied history, going back to the 1961, when Bill Putnam first opened it as part of United Western Recorders. 

In 1984, Putnam sold the United Western Recorders to Allen Sides, who renamed the buildings Ocean Way Recording. The studio remained as part of Ocean Way, until it was sold in 1998 and renamed Cello Studios.

Cello Studios went out of business in 2005, and it seemed likely that the building would be sold and repurposed for non-music use. EastWest rescued it from the wrecking block in 2006, restoring and reopening the facility for both sampling and traditional recording.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Geomir

pcarrilho said:


> oh sorry... I did not realize you was talking about the old one... sorry!


No problem. To be honest I guessed it. Many people still love the old EWQLSO, but not THAT much, to prefer using it over BBC SO Pro or OT libraries.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I was curious to see how OPUS's Sound Variation integration was with Studio One, so ended up building an OPUS template over the weekend. Was quite a painless approach (though I wish S1 had better control over UI contrast, especially in the piano editor).

Did a quick mock of the Olympic Theme - wondering what folks feel is the best articulation in OPUS Hollywood Brass for that JW fanfare type of stuff? I'm mostly using Staccato Dbl Tng here since the Reps 120bpm don't sound great to me personally (and end on a pretty strong accent). I also tried to put those on their own track with the ASDR decay all the way down. I'm not using the new EXP trumpets - but are those better at that sort of stuff?

Anybody mocked up something similar with OPUS? Curious to hear your thoughts on programming tips / improvements. Cheers!


----------



## Akhiva

ThomasS said:


> I have no problems with an external USB3 2TB SSD - everything loads quickly (around 5 secs for largest KS instruments) and play with no glitches or stutter. However - a big pain in the tush - both Cubase and Dorico have to "wait" (little spinning circle) whenever I have too many instruments loaded and am playing around with them. If I wait, the program comes back sooner or later (sometimes minutes) and I can continue working, but it would take a lot of cups of coffee to keep waiting these things out. I just ordered an upgrade from 32gb to 64gb ram, so see if that solves the problem. If not I don't think I can use Opus for large projects, which is sad because it sounds great.


Hey man,
I have the same issue, I bought the CC disk for composer cloud plus and I've done my benchmark on the hard drive, up to 370mb/sec. When I load an Opus instance sometimes the instrument loads at 600mb/s, and most likely it loads at 2mb/s, I don't know how to fix this, It's a pain in the... when working. The drive is a Buffalo ddr3 3tb


----------



## cqd

I'm experiencing issues in a big template as well using it in VEPro and pro tools..
In fairness the template might just be too big, and it works again after a second, but it regularly hangs..
I'm thinking template-less might be the way to go..


----------



## spaceflows

DaveC said:


> Oh Dear! As a newly-seduced inductee into the World of EW Opus, and when trying to load various patches, I am often confronted with the Resource Locator screen? OK... I can live with the fact that I seem to have become an unwitting Beta tester and the 'Select File' and 'Download' buttons seem to do the trick but, I swear to Gd that I meticulously followed the destructions and downloaded everything as directed (the wife was even up all night whipping the donkey around the generator pit to keep the connection up). Have I missed a trick here or is this par for the course with EW I wonder?
> 
> I'll see myself out...


I've just started getting this since the latest Opus update. Have to locate everything! Anyone find a fix? It seems to be only with the Gold/Diamond libraries of mine.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

spaceflows said:


> I've just started getting this since the latest Opus update. Have to locate everything! Anyone find a fix? It seems to be only with the Gold/Diamond libraries of mine.


I've been experiencing this since day #1 with Opus, It's a total PITA. Ive reverted back to using Play, haven't touched Opus for months now.


----------



## Denny

Hey guys! Has anyone noticed Opus' bonkers memory usage? I've been a bit surprised that it doesn't recognize dublicate samples the same way that PLAY does, which means that loading up instruments that share samples with each other will still ramp up the RAM usage significantly.

Here's a test with one of the 1st Violin patches, loaded in six times.







Is there some sort of roadmap out there for Opus? I've been wondering if there was a way to feature request this.


----------



## odod

Denny said:


> Hey guys! Has anyone noticed Opus' bonkers memory usage? I've been a bit surprised that it doesn't recognize dublicate samples the same way that PLAY does, which means that loading up instruments that share samples with each other will still ramp up the RAM usage significantly.
> 
> Here's a test with one of the 1st Violin patches, loaded in six times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there some sort of roadmap out there for Opus? I've been wondering if there was a way to feature request this.


i have sent the tweak for OPUS in the previous posts .. you might want to look at it
P.S :ok i will put here ..


----------



## brett

Does anyone know when the current deal expires?


----------



## spaceflows

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I've been experiencing this since day #1 with Opus, It's a total PITA. Ive reverted back to using Play, haven't touched Opus for months now.


Received this fix from EW customer support, and it seemed to do the trick:

please make sure that you have the correct library size +/-0.5-1GB (Chapter 3.2 of the manual)

In the main library folder, delete both the .ewui and the .ewus files.

Then open the Installation Center.

- Login and locate the library.
- Hover over it with your mouse and click on the gear-icon.
- Select "Uninstall".
- Next, select "Locate Directory and Reinstall".
- Select the "Instruments" subfolder of your library folder.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

spaceflows said:


> Received this fix from EW customer support, and it seemed to do the trick:
> 
> please make sure that you have the correct library size +/-0.5-1GB (Chapter 3.2 of the manual)
> 
> In the main library folder, delete both the .ewui and the .ewus files.
> 
> Then open the Installation Center.
> 
> - Login and locate the library.
> - Hover over it with your mouse and click on the gear-icon.
> - Select "Uninstall".
> - Next, select "Locate Directory and Reinstall".
> - Select the "Instruments" subfolder of your library folder.


Thanks for this! I’ll give it a try.


----------



## Markrs

Eastwest have their Composer Cloud Plus now for only $19.99 which is the price of Composer Cloud X. Whilst this is a yearly subscription you get all their libraries and all the mics (diamond versions)

Access to the entire EastWest ComposerCloud Diamond/Platinum collection of 42,000+ virtual instruments plus new releases.






EastWest ComposerCloud+ | Virtual Instruments Plugin Bundle


Limited Time Offer - 30 Day Free Trial to ComposerCloud+. Instant Access to all of EastWest's 42,000+ award-winning virtual instruments & DAW plugins.




www.soundsonline.com





EDU $9.99


----------



## Markrs




----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Markrs said:


> Eastwest have their Composer Cloud Plus now for only $19.99 which is the price of Composer Cloud X. Whilst this is a yearly subscription you get all their libraries and all the mics (diamond versions)
> 
> Access to the entire EastWest ComposerCloud Diamond/Platinum collection of 42,000+ virtual instruments plus new releases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EastWest ComposerCloud+ | Virtual Instruments Plugin Bundle
> 
> 
> Limited Time Offer - 30 Day Free Trial to ComposerCloud+. Instant Access to all of EastWest's 42,000+ award-winning virtual instruments & DAW plugins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soundsonline.com


This is a total no-brainer IMO, you get all mic positions for that price.


----------



## Markrs

Jeremy Spencer said:


> This is a total no-brainer IMO, you get all mic positions for that price.


EDU is just $9.99


----------



## Markrs

I was paying $9.99 for Composer Cloud X EDU now I get Composer Cloud Plus got the same price. A true "no brainer" for me


----------



## Nashi_VI

Markrs said:


> I was paying $9.99 for Composer Cloud X EDU now I get Composer Cloud Plus got the same price. A true "no brainer" for me


i don't want to be skeptical but...i have been burnt last year with Opus and EW "marketing"....... do you guys think the price of the renewal is gonna be the same once the deal expires?


----------



## jamieboo

Do you think the already pretty decent discount price (for upgrading Diamond (Play) to Opus) might briefly drop even lower when actual Black Friday rolls around?


----------



## Markrs

jamieboo said:


> Do you think the already pretty decent discount price (for upgrading Diamond (Play) to Opus) might briefly drop even lower when actual Black Friday rolls around?


According to 3rd party sellers the current price will last till January. Of course they could change their mind.


----------



## rnb_2

They're offering anyone on CCX an upgrade to CC+ for the balance of their subscription at $0. It's very tempting, but it will leave me short of storage space and with a decision to make in late May of whether to downgrade back to CCX or continue with CC+ (the former seems more likely). Depending on how things work out, I might let my sub lapse at that point and wait for next BF to resubscribe.


----------



## alcorey

rnb_2 said:


> They're offering anyone on CCX an upgrade to CC+ for the balance of their subscription at $0. It's very tempting, but it will leave me short of storage space and with a decision to make in late May of whether to downgrade back to CCX or continue with CC+ (the former seems more likely). Depending on how things work out, I might let my sub lapse at that point and wait for next BF to resubscribe.


I subscribed to CC+ in April 2021, paid for the whole year in advance - $299 (2 months free). In this current sale you can do that for $199 (paid in advance for 2 months free) an incredible bargain for everything that you have access to.

So I contacted them today to ask if I can purchase the BF special and pay the $199 for a full year - but start that subscription in April 2022 when my current subscription expires and was told - "they've had a number of similar requests and that they need to huddle over it to see if it's doable and they will have an answer for me tomorrow"

I'll keep you posted on the answer


----------



## szczaw

Nashi_VI said:


> i don't want to be skeptical but...i have been burnt last year with Opus and EW "marketing"....... do you guys think the price of the renewal is gonna be the same once the deal expires?


It's BF deal. If you sing up, your yearly subscription will expire during another BF.


----------



## jneebz

Markrs said:


>


OMG! I can't WAIT for this release to drop in late 2025!!!


----------



## rnb_2

szczaw said:


> It's BF deal. If you sing up, your yearly subscription will expire during another BF.


Yeah, this is why I'm a bit skeptical about whether it would make sense for a CCX subscriber to upgrade their license from their existing expiration date for $199 (instead of taking the $0 upgrade for the remainder of the existing license), as that will just lock you in to a renewal date that doesn't fall around BF every year.


----------



## muziksculp

Did you notice this :


----------



## muziksculp

Oh.. I didn't notice that @Markrs had posted about it. 

So.. Forbidden Fruit, oh no .. It's the Forbidden Planet.


----------



## Geomir

Did anyone notice that it will be available FIRST on Composer Cloud? Did anyone notice that they are already pushing people to subscribe, like they did with OPUS release? I never recall any new big library being unavailable (on purpose) for purchase, but offered only through a Cloud via subscription.

I don't think anyone is expecting to know what this "FIRST" means (i.e. how many days, weeks or even months customers interested in purchasing the new library have to wait), since EW's marketing and communication skills so far have been proved to be... not the best.

Anyway, maybe it's a little too early for conclusions, let's wait and see how they are going to handle it.


----------



## muziksculp

Geomir said:


> Did anyone notice that it will be available FIRST on Composer Cloud? Did anyone notice that they are already pushing people to subscribe, like they did with OPUS release? I never recall any new big library being unavailable (on purpose) for purchase, but offered only through a Cloud via subscription.
> 
> I don't think anyone is expecting to know what this "FIRST" means (i.e. how many days, weeks or even months customers interested in purchasing the new library have to wait), since EW's marketing and communication skills so far have been proved to be... not the best.
> 
> Anyway, maybe it's a little too early for conclusions, let's wait and see how they are going to handle it.


Yes, I noticed that, and I have no intention, or desire to join their Composer Cloud to get this new library in a rush, but they are surely using it as an opportunity to get more CCloud subs.


----------



## Markrs

I didn't realise this when I posted about the CC Plus deal but it looks like they have removed CC (the monthly by month option) and CCX. They offer CC Plus month by month for $29

This is consistent with them removing Opus Gold as an option as well.

Below are the only Composer Cloud options available


----------



## alcorey

szczaw said:


> It's BF deal. If you sing up, your yearly subscription will expire during another BF.


Damn....I can only sing down...... (I love typos!)


----------



## Markrs

3DC said:


> I can upgrade from CCX to CC+ for the same (19.99$) monthly subscription price? Do I understand this right? What happens if I don't want to upgrade?


You should be able to do that, login and you should see that option


----------



## handz

Geomir said:


> Did anyone notice that it will be available FIRST on Composer Cloud? Did anyone notice that they are already pushing people to subscribe, like they did with OPUS release? I never recall any new big library being unavailable (on purpose) for purchase, but offered only through a Cloud via subscription.
> 
> I don't think anyone is expecting to know what this "FIRST" means (i.e. how many days, weeks or even months customers interested in purchasing the new library have to wait), since EW's marketing and communication skills so far have been proved to be... not the best.
> 
> Anyway, maybe it's a little too early for conclusions, let's wait and see how they are going to handle it.


Yeah I hate it but at the same time it is only understandable, sounds online is like Netflix, their amount of libraries is enormous. They wanna get people sign in.


----------



## Geomir

handz said:


> Yeah I hate it but at the same time it is only understandable, sounds online is like Netflix, their amount of libraries is enormous. They wanna get people sign in.


I suppose each and every company wants as many customers as they can get. It's up to these companies to plan and decide how they are trying to achieve this goal, and the customers' right to "bite" or not.

Imho EW big selling point is not the CC, but the insane low prices of their libraries almost all the time of the year.

Hey Netflix rules, they give you the first month for free!


----------



## jamieboo

Markrs said:


> According to 3rd party sellers the current price will last till January. Of course they could change their mind.


Ah, that's good to know, though as you say there's no certainty.
But I was more wondering about the next few days: In terms of an upgrade from HO Diamond to Opus, is the price likely to drop further on actual Black Friday day?


----------



## Nashi_VI

szczaw said:


> It's BF deal. If you sing up, your yearly subscription will expire during another BF.


yeah i am in the same boat as @rnb_2 so my subs is not gonna line up with the next BF, also yes on their site the regular CC and CCX don't show up as options....but i am not sure how much that is a permanent change and how much is it just a BF push to get a more expensive subs for new users or an upgrade for regular CC subs........we shall see i guess


----------



## Markrs

jamieboo said:


> Ah, that's good to know, though as you say there's no certainty.
> But I was more wondering about the next few days: In terms of an upgrade from HO Diamond to Opus, is the price likely to drop further on actual Black Friday day?


I don't think it will go down during Black Friday as the discounted upgrade price is quite low compared to the "normal" price. However it is always a risk you take with any library that it could go down further in price.


----------



## husker

Quick question - I just upgraded to the Opus Diamond Edition from HO Orchestra Gold. Are the old smaples still needed? I'll be rebuilding my DAW soon, and moving libraries around. So is it good enough just to download the new Opus libraries, or should I also redownload the old HO libraries?


----------



## MelodicAdagio

muziksculp said:


> I have been listening to some older demos produced using EWQLSO Gold, and Plat. on YouTube.
> 
> I like what I'm hearing. Very rich sound, with a lot of character, and very lively.


EWQLSO Platinum was my first real collection of sample libraries. I think I got it around 2005 or so and it was originally in Kontakt and came on a massive group of CDs. Even though I don't use it much these days, it still gets some use, though with the Opus player now instead of Play. I have a lot of fond memories with EWQLSO. I think that the hall sound is great. Despite some legato limitations, there are some good things in those libraries that still find a place in my template. 

The percussion, as mentioned elsewhere, is very good and lively. When I'm "auditioning" samples to see which library/instrument works best for a particular piece, I sometimes end up with a woodwind from EWQLSO. Maybe it's just for a particular articulation or maybe it's even keyswitched for multiple articulations. But some of the woodwinds hold their own with much newer libraries I have. So it's definitely worth poking around and seeing what all is available in this old collection. There's a chance you'll find a few things you really like even though much of it is now superseded by newer libraries with more advanced recording techniques.


----------



## Geomir

MelodicAdagio said:


> EWQLSO Platinum was my first real collection of sample libraries. I think I got it around 2005 or so and it was originally in Kontakt and came on a massive group of CDs. Even though I don't use it much these days, it still gets some use, though with the Opus player now instead of Play. I have a lot of fond memories with EWQLSO. I think that the hall sound is great. Despite some legato limitations, there are some good things in those libraries that still find a place in my template.
> 
> The percussion, as mentioned elsewhere, is very good and lively. When I'm "auditioning" samples to see which library/instrument works best for a particular piece, I sometimes end up with a woodwind from EWQLSO. Maybe it's just for a particular articulation or maybe it's even keyswitched for multiple articulations. But some of the woodwinds hold their own with much newer libraries I have. So it's definitely worth poking around and seeing what all is available in this old collection. There's a chance you'll find a few things you really like even though much of it is now superseded by newer libraries with more advanced recording techniques.


I don't know if I want to ask you how much you paid to buy it back then...


----------



## cedricm

MelodicAdagio said:


> EWQLSO Platinum was my first real collection of sample libraries. I think I got it around 2005 or so and it was originally in Kontakt and came on a massive group of CDs. Even though I don't use it much these days, it still gets some use, though with the Opus player now instead of Play. I have a lot of fond memories with EWQLSO. I think that the hall sound is great. Despite some legato limitations, there are some good things in those libraries that still find a place in my template.
> 
> The percussion, as mentioned elsewhere, is very good and lively. When I'm "auditioning" samples to see which library/instrument works best for a particular piece, I sometimes end up with a woodwind from EWQLSO. Maybe it's just for a particular articulation or maybe it's even keyswitched for multiple articulations. But some of the woodwinds hold their own with much newer libraries I have. So it's definitely worth poking around and seeing what all is available in this old collection. There's a chance you'll find a few things you really like even though much of it is now superseded by newer libraries with more advanced recording techniques.


I got EWQLSO many, many years ago, but it was already on Play. So I guess it was 2007.


----------



## MelodicAdagio

Geomir said:


> I don't know if I want to ask you how much you paid to buy it back then...


$1200 is what sticks in my mind, though I could be a little off. Of course, that's way more in today's dollars. I remember gulping hard when I put that on my credit card and I almost went back and cancelled the order and changed it to Gold. But I'm glad I stuck with the Platinum version.


----------



## Geomir

MelodicAdagio said:


> $1200 is what sticks in my mind, though I could be a little off. Of course, that's way more in today's dollars. I remember gulping hard when I put that on my credit card and I almost went back and cancelled the order and changed it to Gold. But I'm glad I stuck with the Platinum version.


I was expecting worse to be honest! You made a good deal back then! And it was totally worth it!


----------



## Henu

MelodicAdagio said:


> $1200 is what sticks in my mind, though I could be a little off.


I got Gold in 2009 and it was about 950 €, which is about 1100 €/ 1160 USD in today's money.


----------



## Jobreu

In Hollywood Orchestrator, why are my notes sustaining if I hit more then 1 note at a time?
I've loaded the first ptach in the Woodwinds Shorts presets. As soon as I play more then 1 note at once it will sustain the notes....


----------



## Jobreu

I just updated to Composer Cloud Plus, I'm confused what I have to download. I already have the files on my drive. Do I need now to download both? Diamond and Opus? Also, do I need now to delete my old files and just install now the new ones?


----------



## jamieboo

Markrs said:


> I don't think it will go down during Black Friday as the discounted upgrade price is quite low compared to the "normal" price. However it is always a risk you take with any library that it could go down further in price.


Ooh! Has the upgrade price for HO Diamond to Opus just indeed dipped even lower for 24 hrs?


----------



## Karmand

It's 499 now, on EW site and bestservice hmmm... now it's time to think about where I hid my wallet.


----------



## handz

Karmand said:


> It's 499 now, on EW site and bestservice hmmm... now it's time to think about where I hid my wallet.


$249 for ana upgrade, really wow. I still didnt buy it but only because I don't have fast internet or SSD available, but... mmm


----------



## jamieboo

Eek! Just grabbed the upgrade from old HO Diamond!
Woohoo!
But I probably can't use it until I build a new PC next year - my current PC is creaky enough as it is with the PLAY version!


----------



## Batrawi

handz said:


> $249 for ana upgrade, really wow. I still didnt buy it but only because I don't have fast internet or SSD available, but... mmm


you sure $249? dunno why my upgrade costed $295... I've ordered it + the content HD which is also on sale... all around $415 which is still a good deal I think. less cheaper and faster than I would have had to download the content in my case

Edit: sry am not sure if we're talking about the same upgrade. mine is from HWO Diamond to HOOPUS


----------



## jamieboo

Batrawi said:


> you sure $249? dunno why my upgrade costed $295... I've ordered it + the content HD which is also on sale... all around $415 which is still a good deal I think. less cheaper and faster than I would have had to download the content in my case


Yep, I just paid $249 for the download. ($298.80 including taxes)


----------



## Batrawi

my orders have been "pending approval" for more than 24h though.. is that normal in EW? coz I didn't face such delay with other devs before


----------



## jneebz

Super stoked for HOOPUS after months of debating. $249 is a fantastic deal for the upgrade IMO.


----------



## Markrs

Wow I don't expect it to go even cheaper. Fantastic deal especially for those upgrading from a single Gold HO product.


----------



## EgM

jamieboo said:


> Eek! Just grabbed the upgrade from old HO Diamond!
> Woohoo!
> But I probably can't use it until I build a new PC next year - my current PC is creaky enough as it is with the PLAY version!


In my experience, Opus player is lighter than Play


----------



## jamieboo

EgM said:


> In my experience, Opus player is lighter than Play


Ah, that is good to know.
But then I hear comments here that sometimes different instruments/articulations that share samples load the samples each time rather than literally sharing them. Cumulatively, I think that would take a toll on my 32GB. Also, my Play edition of Diamond is spread across 2 500GB SSDs, I think the additional stuff that OPUS brings would make things pretty tight.
I might have a fiddle and try to make it work, but I might just wait for my new build.


----------



## chlady

I didn't see this sale coming since I just upgraded not that long ago for the $295. I thought it wouldn't go much lower for a while but I guess I should have waited for $249 sale now. But it least it's not that much of a loss.


----------



## markleake

Too many pages to go back through here, so can anyone give me a quick summary of OPUS vs. the old Gold/Diamond libraries?

What's the new content like? e.g. the new 1st Violins, a2 trombones & trumpets, a3 woodwinds?
Is the old content improved much? esp. the woodwinds?


----------



## ned3000

jamieboo said:


> Ah, that is good to know.
> But then I hear comments here that sometimes different instruments/articulations that share samples load the samples each time rather than literally sharing them. Cumulatively, I think that would take a toll on my 32GB.


As far as I can tell it doesn't share samples at all. Even if you load multiple copies of the same instrument.

Nobody else should buy it until they fix that


----------



## hdsmile

I just bought Hopus upgrade for 249$ (Diamond)
I need some installation advice, should I remove old library's and download and install everything as new?


----------



## jamieboo

hdsmile said:


> I just bought Hopus upgrade for 249$ (Diamond)
> I need some installation advice, should I remove old library's and download and install everything as new?


Although I probably won't be installing it now, I'm curious about this too.
Also, my Installation Center (ver. 1.4.3) now lists all the OPUS stuff, but I notice my old PLAY version of HO seems to have vanished from 'Installed Libraries' in the IC. Is this normal? I'd prefer to still have access to old HO and be able to uninstall it and reinstall it as I wish. How would this be possible if it has disappeared from the Installation Center?
Additionally, the IC mentions 'New Licences Available' and has an 'Activate' button. Will activating this somehow mess with my PLAY installation?
I'm working on something now using PLAY and don't want to mess anything up.

Thanks


----------



## hdsmile

jamieboo said:


> Although I probably won't be installing it now, I'm curious about this too.
> Also, my Installation Center (ver. 1.4.3) now lists all the OPUS stuff, but I notice my old PLAY version of HO seems to have vanished from 'Installed Libraries' in the IC. Is this normal? I'd prefer to still have access to old HO and be able to uninstall it and reinstall it as I wish. How would this be possible if it has disappeared from the Installation Center?
> Additionally, the IC mentions 'New Licences Available' and has an 'Activate' button. Will activating this somehow mess with my PLAY installation?
> I'm working on something now using PLAY and don't want to mess anything up.
> 
> Thanks


Try to scroll down in Installation Center and you will see the there is the headings with "missed simple's library", "Installed library" and "*old libraries*" I believe the is an option to download and reinstall old libs.


----------



## jamieboo

hdsmile said:


> Try to scroll down in Installation Center and you will see the there is the headings with "missed simple's library", "Installed library" and "*old libraries*" I believe the is an option to download and reinstall old libs.


Thanks hdsmile, but I don't seem to have those options.
Scrolling down shows a 'New Downloads' section with all the new Opus stuff; below that is an 'Installed Libraries' section which shows my other stuff - EWQLSO, Spaces Reverb, Gypsy - and that's it.
There's nothing else below this.


----------



## gzapper

Just got the upgrade. This is my plan for orch libraries, guess I'll see if it works.

BBCSO for detailed work - since it doesn't do sections and you have to take the time to write each part
HOOPUS for quicker work
NI libraries (may add Abbey 1) or whatever as sketching library
Occasional spot libraries to fill holes, perc and bigger brass than BBCSO


----------



## Flyo

gzapper said:


> Just got the upgrade. This is my plan for orch libraries, guess I'll see if it works.
> 
> BBCSO for detailed work - since it doesn't do sections and you have to take the time to write each part
> HOOPUS for quicker work
> NI libraries (may add Abbey 1) or whatever as sketching library
> Occasional spot libraries to fill holes, perc and bigger brass than BBCSO


Sound good, I was wondering why Opus will bring you a most simplified arrangement task with it, mainly because the pre ready orchestrator tool?


----------



## gzapper

Flyo said:


> Sound good, I was wondering why Opus will bring you a most simplified arrangement task with it, mainly because the pre ready orchestrator tool?


I'm thinking the combo or arranger and section sounds. 
BBCSO has no sections.


----------



## Mike Fox

I’m sure this has been asked already, but can can anyone tell me the main differences between the orchestrator and the Orchestra 2? Just wondering how these engins compare in terms of features, functionality, midi export, etc.

It appears hat Sonuscore played a large part in developing the orchestrator engine, so I’m curious as to how the two engines compare.


----------



## nolotrippen

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I was curious to see how OPUS's Sound Variation integration was with Studio One, so ended up building an OPUS template over the weekend. Was quite a painless approach (though I wish S1 had better control over UI contrast, especially in the piano editor).
> 
> Did a quick mock of the Olympic Theme - wondering what folks feel is the best articulation in OPUS Hollywood Brass for that JW fanfare type of stuff? I'm mostly using Staccato Dbl Tng here since the Reps 120bpm don't sound great to me personally (and end on a pretty strong accent). I also tried to put those on their own track with the ASDR decay all the way down. I'm not using the new EXP trumpets - but are those better at that sort of stuff?
> 
> Anybody mocked up something similar with OPUS? Curious to hear your thoughts on programming tips / improvements. Cheers!


Sounds fantastic


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

nolotrippen said:


> Sounds fantastic


Appreciate that. I did a version with the Berlin Series too. Could've used more reverb on the OPUS version, but I think the Berlin one came out better - they have great repetition patches for brass in there.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

spaceflows said:


> Received this fix from EW customer support, and it seemed to do the trick:
> 
> please make sure that you have the correct library size +/-0.5-1GB (Chapter 3.2 of the manual)
> 
> In the main library folder, delete both the .ewui and the .ewus files.
> 
> Then open the Installation Center.
> 
> - Login and locate the library.
> - Hover over it with your mouse and click on the gear-icon.
> - Select "Uninstall".
> - Next, select "Locate Directory and Reinstall".
> - Select the "Instruments" subfolder of your library folder.


This worked! Thanks a lot.


----------



## rnb_2

Mike Fox said:


> I’m sure this has been asked already, but can can anyone tell me the main differences between the orchestrator and the Orchestra 2? Just wondering how these engins compare in terms of features, functionality, midi export, etc.
> 
> It appears hat Sonuscore played a large part in developing the orchestrator engine, so I’m curious as to how the two engines compare.


Orchestrator gives you more options and control. TOC2 has five parts per preset, whereas Orchestrator can have up to 16, and also gives you the ability control which sections respond to which notes in a played chord. I'd basically look at Orchestrator as an advanced version of what Sonuscore did in TOC2 - while the latter can get decent results faster in most cases, Orchestrator has more depth and the ability to create a much bigger, richer sound.

Someone else will have to chime in on the midi export options, as I haven't delved into that part of either of them.


----------



## Mike Fox

Just saw the real estate requirements for Diamond.


----------



## rnb_2

Mike Fox said:


> Just saw the real estate requirements for Diamond.


I hear ya - I currently have CCX, and I feel a bit silly not taking advantage of the "free" upgrade to CC+, but I just had to buy another 1TB NVMe drive in order to have somewhere to put it.


----------



## jneebz

I’m using OS X Mojave and installed everything but when I open OPUS, the Orchestrator is grayed out but still shows up in the Instrument column. Double clicking the Orchestrator in the instrument column crashes OPUS. Anyone know if this is a known issue with a fix? If not is the best route to support via email? TIA


----------



## Laddy

How does this work regarding reverb? The YouTube videos with Orchestrator sound amazing, but it's a bit unclear if the reverb used is from the opus engine?


----------



## BassClef

I believe they are all done with EW's SpacesII reverb inside of Opus.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

jneebz said:


> I’m using OS X Mojave and installed everything but when I open OPUS, the Orchestrator is grayed out but still shows up in the Instrument column. Double clicking the Orchestrator in the instrument column crashes OPUS. Anyone know if this is a known issue with a fix? If not is the best route to support via email? TIA


I upgraded to PLUS on Black Friday, and now I'm experiencing the same issue.....in both Cubase 10 and the latest Logic Pro (Big Sur). This never happened previously. Also tried uninstalling/installing Orchestrator a few times with no avail. I've sent a support ticket.


----------



## jneebz

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I upgraded to PLUS on Black Friday, and now I'm experiencing the same issue.....in both Cubase 10 and the latest Logic Pro (Big Sur). This never happened previously. Also tried uninstalling/installing Orchestrator a few times with no avail. I've sent a support ticket.


So I opened the EW Installer yesterday and there was an Orchestrator update which I installed and now it works normally….


----------



## Wedge

jneebz said:


> I’m using OS X Mojave and installed everything but when I open OPUS, the Orchestrator is grayed out but still shows up in the Instrument column. Double clicking the Orchestrator in the instrument column crashes OPUS. Anyone know if this is a known issue with a fix? If not is the best route to support via email? TIA


I'm using Win10 and it did the same thing. I reinstalled the Orchestrator with the EW installer, yes it said it was already installed. Afterwards, it worked fine. So I hope you have the same luck.


----------



## rnb_2

Anybody else getting Java crashes in the Installation Center on a Mac (Monterey, in this case)? Since I did the free upgrade from CCX to CC+ yesterday, I set up Installation Center to run overnight, but I woke up this morning to no IC running and no crash message. I started it back up and started downloading some of the smaller parts, and I've been getting java crashes sporadically all day.

On another topic, before I started seeing the crashes, I did a chat with EW support about buying a CC+ subscription under the current pricing and using that to extend my sub when it comes up for renewal in May. They said that would work, but also told me that, because I upgraded at the promo price, my CC+ sub would auto-renew at $199 in May. I kept a transcript of the chat, just in case, but that will be a nice surprise (assuming it works), as I thought I would have to make a decision between downgrading back to CCX (if it still exists) or letting my sub lapse in May, because I wouldn't want to pay normal price for it.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

jneebz said:


> So I opened the EW Installer yesterday and there was an Orchestrator update which I installed and now it works normally….


Contacted EW support and Lorenz had me install an alternate package. Works perfectly now.

I'm one of the elite who loves EW support, they've always been a great help (since 2006).


----------



## alcorey

alcorey said:


> I subscribed to CC+ in April 2021, paid for the whole year in advance - $299 (2 months free). In this current sale you can do that for $199 (paid in advance for 2 months free) an incredible bargain for everything that you have access to.
> 
> So I contacted them today to ask if I can purchase the BF special and pay the $199 for a full year - but start that subscription in April 2022 when my current subscription expires and was told - "they've had a number of similar requests and that they need to huddle over it to see if it's doable and they will have an answer for me tomorrow"
> 
> I'll keep you posted on the answer


So I got the answer from East/West and they can't let me purchase the CC+ subscription now for the $199 price............BUT - they have changed the price in my account for renewal to be $199 instead of $299. So when I renew in April it will be $199 only and that's the price you'll always pay unless you let your subscription lapse - in which case you would have to resubscribe at the then current price. So in essence it's the same thing I wanted to do - but now it's being done automatically and I don't have to pay the $199 right now, It'll get billed in April.

If you are in a similar position, contact them through chat on the soundsonline.com site and they'll take care of it for you.

Really good of them!


----------



## marius_dm

Not sure if this has been asked before, I couldn’t find anything. I own HW Strings, Brass, WW all Gold. Can I get the $249 upgrade, does anyone know?

The FAQ says: “Anyone owning portions of the Hollywood Orchestra are welcome to upgrade to the full Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition.”

Thanks


----------



## alcorey

marius_dm said:


> Not sure if this has been asked before, I couldn’t find anything. I own HW Strings, Brass, WW all Gold. Can I get the $249 upgrade, does anyone know?
> 
> The FAQ says: “Anyone owning portions of the Hollywood Orchestra are welcome to upgrade to the full Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition.”
> 
> Thanks


Yes, many have bought the upgrade having even just 1 library of HW gold


----------



## pixelcrave

rnb_2 said:


> Anybody else getting Java crashes in the Installation Center on a Mac (Monterey, in this case)? Since I did the free upgrade from CCX to CC+ yesterday, I set up Installation Center to run overnight, but I woke up this morning to no IC running and no crash message. I started it back up and started downloading some of the smaller parts, and I've been getting java crashes sporadically all day.


How did your installation come along since? Curious if you had a remedy for the crashes? I'm experiencing the exact same thing, Installation Center keeps crashing randomly that I have to keep starting it back up. I'm on the new MacBook M1 Max running Monterey.


----------



## rnb_2

pixelcrave said:


> How did your installation come along since? Curious if you had a remedy for the crashes? I'm experiencing the exact same thing, Installation Center keeps crashing randomly that I have to keep starting it back up. I'm on the new MacBook M1 Max running Monterey.


No remedy, unfortunately, but I just let it keep going for a couple days and everything eventually finished. It would crash sporadically, and I'd restart it, and it would usually pick up around where it was when it crashed. If it had stopped making progress, I would have contacted support, but it never quite got to that point.


----------



## pixelcrave

rnb_2 said:


> No remedy, unfortunately, but I just let it keep going for a couple days and everything eventually finished. It would crash sporadically, and I'd restart it, and it would usually pick up around where it was when it crashed. If it had stopped making progress, I would have contacted support, but it never quite got to that point.


Gotcha. The trickier problem I'm noticing is not during the download (to your point, it will pick it up where it left off), but when it crashed during the unpacking as it automatically deletes the .ZIP files. So when it crashed and I started over, it will re-download those already deleted .ZIP files... O well, I'll give it a try for a couple of days but I'm already regretting my purchase because of this hassle (I know, I'm impatient)


----------



## rnb_2

pixelcrave said:


> Gotcha. The trickier problem I'm noticing is not during the download (to your point, it will pick it up where it left off), but when it crashed during the unpacking as it automatically deletes the .ZIP files. So when it crashed and I started over, it will re-download those already deleted .ZIP files... O well, I'll give it a try for a couple of days but I'm already regretting my purchase because of this hassle (I know, I'm impatient)


I'm not sure if mine ever crashed during the unpacking - it may have, but I was doing other things and just got into a pattern where I'd see the crash come up, click Restart (which doesn't actually restart IC, so it may not have actually done anything), then restart IC manually and go back to what it was downloading last.

I haven't actually started doing anything with it yet, but I've been busy enough with other things that it hasn't effected me. Also, I just updated from CCX to CC+ for free, so I haven't had as much reason to be annoyed as those that have purchased it outright. You might want to get in touch with support and see if they can help - they have been extremely helpful the couple of times I've contacted them.


----------



## pixelcrave

FYI – for those on Mac OS Monterey who have been experiencing crashes with Installation Center app like me (latest version is 1.4.3), I contacted support and got this response below with *a link to download a not-released-yet version 1.4.4*. So far it's been operating better for me. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## rnb_2

pixelcrave said:


> FYI – for those on Mac OS Monterey who have been experiencing crashes with Installation Center app like me (latest version is 1.4.3), I contacted support and got this response below with *a link to download a not-released-yet version 1.4.4*. So far it's been operating better for me.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Now I feel a bit silly for not contacting them - thanks for doing that and posting the link!


----------



## Daisser

I haven't made purchases in a long while but this peaked my interest. I am very impressed with the new player and updates, the orchestrator is really something else. Does anyone know if the sustain pedal works on the Orchestrator patches? I thought I saw a post that this was a bug but that was in April and this thread has got a lot of posts! I wonder if anyone could chime on this?


----------



## cedricm

Batrawi said:


> my orders have been "pending approval" for more than 24h though.. is that normal in EW? coz I didn't face such delay with other devs before


No. I would contact them.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Daisser said:


> I haven't made purchases in a long while but this peaked my interest. I am very impressed with the new player and updates, the orchestrator is really something else. Does anyone know if the sustain pedal works on the Orchestrator patches? I thought I saw a post that this was a bug but that was in April and this thread has got a lot of posts! I wonder if anyone could chime on this?


No, I asked support about this a few days ago. The sustain feature is in the works.


----------



## Daisser

Jeremy Spencer said:


> No, I asked support about this a few days ago. The sustain feature is in the works



Thanks for the update, I'm glad they are working on it. I could say I need to practice playing more to gain dexterity to move my fingers to make sure there's no gap between changes when playing live!!


----------



## -Rogo-

pixelcrave said:


> FYI – for those on Mac OS Monterey who have been experiencing crashes with Installation Center app like me (latest version is 1.4.3), I contacted support and got this response below with *a link to download a not-released-yet version 1.4.4*. So far it's been operating better for me.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Today it was released at their homepage, but most of the libraries won't install anyway...


----------



## Crossroads

Ever since that Product Manager update my download speeds have been normal again.

It was crazy, like 144kb/s crazy. Now it's back to normal.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

Asking again since my question got lost in the shuffle back in the day:

Does anyone know if EW publishes a list of negative track delays for HOOPUS?

Thank you


----------



## Daisser

Hey All. I know it's been covered but I can't find the answer - did they fix / add an ability in OPUS Orchestrator for MIDI export for each line? I'm using Reaper.

EDIT. Ah at a about page 300 I found they added a hand icon, works great!


----------



## Chungus

Starting playing around with HOOPUS, and I've ran into an issue that when swapping the CC1 and 11 controls around so expression is on the modwheel, when in KS instruments, patches that had functionality mapped to the mod don't switch any more. (Trill patches on the strings, for example.)

Anyone else have that?


----------



## MusiquedeReve

MorphineNoir said:


> Asking again since my question got lost in the shuffle back in the day:
> 
> Does anyone know if EW publishes a list of negative track delays for HOOPUS?
> 
> Thank you


I will reply to my own post (is that a break of forum etiquette? lol) for the forum's edification that EastWest responded to my inquiry about negative track delay times as follows:


----------



## BassClef

That's it! I just tweak those samples by ear. Even libraries that give quite specific delay settings (like Cinematic Studio) warn the user that tweaking by ear is still necessary.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

MorphineNoir said:


> I will reply to my own post (is that a break of forum etiquette? lol) for the forum's edification that EastWest responded to my inquiry about negative track delay times as follows:


I also saw this in the manual...

*In order to ensure the timing of the patterns in Hollywood Orchestrator are accurate, there is a 40 millisecond (ms) input delay.*


----------



## MusiquedeReve

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I also saw this in the manual...
> 
> *In order to ensure the timing of the patterns in Hollywood Orchestrator are accurate, there is a 40 millisecond (ms) input delay.*


Ahhh ok so -40ms when using Orchestrator - thanks


----------



## Stephan L.

Hey guys,
I really hope you can help me. I purchased a license for OPUS diamond and can´t wait to try it. I never had a problem with EW before. Everything worked fine. The Opus engine seems to be special in my case. It crashes every time I am using it since one week. I saw posts months ago, people had the same problems. MAybe you can help me to fix it. The support only reminds me to reinstall the opus engine. I did, nothing changed!
Meanwhile I installed everything one more on a new SSD, but it doesn´t work.

While uninstalling the opus engine I realized that the opus Engine.exe is installed in 32bit. All other librarys are installed in 64bit. May this causes this problem (?) but I don´t how to change it. Every helpful answer is welcome! Thank you!
Stephan


----------



## Ved

Kabraxis said:


> Most of my instruments (except Hollywood ones) disappeared from OPUS interface. When I try to manually add them, it says "The file ProductInfo.ew could not be found."
> 
> Has anyone had that?


Hello ,

I got the same issue you had a few weeks ago : my "productinfo.ew" files are missing, and I can't find the libraries from opus, neither I can install them manually. Trying to reconnect libraries doesn't help. Everytime I download any library from EW, the productinfo.ew file doesn't show up.

I tried EW support but the answer was clearly missing the point...

Kabraxis, it might be really helpfull if you could share how you solved this !!


----------



## Kabraxis

Ved said:


> Hello ,
> 
> I got the same issue you had a few weeks ago : my "productinfo.ew" files are missing, and I can't find the libraries from opus, neither I can install them manually. Trying to reconnect libraries doesn't help. Everytime I download any library from EW, the productinfo.ew file doesn't show up.
> 
> I tried EW support but the answer was clearly missing the point...
> 
> Kabraxis, it might be really helpfull if you could share how you solved this !!


Hey Ved,
Just go ahead and install PLAY software alongside OPUS. That's the official solution.


----------



## Ved

Kabraxis said:


> Hey Ved,
> Just go ahead and install PLAY software alongside OPUS. That's the official solution.


Thanks Kabraxis, it worked perfectly! 
You should definitly work for Eastwest support. Still got nothing from them.

Ved


----------



## MusiquedeReve

I have been composing a piece using BBCSO Pro for all instruments as I have yet to really do a deep dive on my recently purchased HOOPUS

However, I had read (here on VIC) that the brass in HOOPUS was excellent so I decided to replace the brass in my project from BBCSO Pro to HOOPUS and OMG! it is was like hearing for the first time - what an incredible difference

Bravo to EW on the brass in HOOPUS


----------



## muziksculp

HOOPUS is a great library to pair with BBCSO Pro.  

They nicely complement each other.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

muziksculp said:


> HOOPUS is a great library to pair with BBCSO Pro.
> 
> They nicely complement each other.


So I am learning - I am going to sign up for the Groove3 HOOPUS tutorial to learn the ins and the outs


----------



## muziksculp

MorphineNoir said:


> So I am learning - I am going to sign up for the Groove3 HOOPUS tutorial to learn the ins and the outs


That's a wise decision.  The OPUS Player is fantastic, and very flexible, with a lot of editing features. Actually, I think it's one of the best Sample Players at this time, and super efficient.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

MorphineNoir said:


> So I am learning - I am going to sign up for the Groove3 HOOPUS tutorial to learn the ins and the outs


Hold out for a Christmas sale on Groove3 (unless three already is one).


----------



## muziksculp

@MorphineNoir , also don't underestimate, or ignore EW-HOOPUS Strings, they are great strings.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Hold out for a Christmas sale on Groove3 (unless three already is one).


The sale is $99 for a one year subscription and I believe 25% of the download price to outright purchase a course




muziksculp said:


> @MorphineNoir , also don't underestimate, or ignore EW-HOOPUS Strings, they are great strings.


You read my mind - I was going to try those next

I did notice, however, that the only solo strings they have are violin and cello


----------



## MusiquedeReve

I just changed all sections of the orchestra (except drums - those are just a patch in Logic) from BBCSO Pro to EW HOOPUS (and added the Bdim at the end of the HOOPUS version (thanks to some advice from the board in another thread)

Which version sounds better - the BBCSO Pro version or the HOOPUS version
Please bear in mind that there is no MIDI CC automation, no EQ, no reverb, no compression, etc. this is just the raw sound


----------



## dzilizzi

For this type of music, HOOPUS works better in my opinion. the horns are definitely standing out better. Though I kind of like the BBCSO strings at the beginning.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

dzilizzi said:


> For this type of music, HOOPUS works better in my opinion. the horns are definitely standing out better. Though I kind of like the BBCSO strings at the beginning.


Ultimately, I think it is going to be a mix and match but, since I only recently purchased HOOPUS, I decided to try it out

Like I said in an earlier post, I am going to start the HOOPUS course on Groove3 this week because it is such an expansive VST that I definitely need to get my bearings


----------



## MusiquedeReve

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Hoopus version sounds more “modern” and pop-like to my ears.


Is that a positive or negative?


----------



## MusiquedeReve

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Positive  Both versions sound good on their own but when comparing them, the Hoopus version fits the piece better than the BBCSO version, I think.


I agree - it feels more "in your face" 

I sent the HOOPUS versions to friends who have heard the BBCSO Pro version along the way as I have been writing and they all told me the new version sounded 10x better


----------



## José Herring

MorphineNoir said:


> I just changed all sections of the orchestra (except drums - those are just a patch in Logic) from BBCSO Pro to EW HOOPUS (and added the Bdim at the end of the HOOPUS version (thanks to some advice from the board in another thread)
> 
> Which version sounds better - the BBCSO Pro version or the HOOPUS version
> Please bear in mind that there is no MIDI CC automation, no EQ, no reverb, no compression, etc. this is just the raw sound



Definitely the horns in the Opus version sound an octave too high. 

But, given that they both kind of have their charm. The strings in BBCSO are kind of cool sounding in this style. The brass in BBCSO is too mushy so I have to hand it to HOOPUS. 

The HOOPUS version overall just has more life and bite to it-- sounds more like a good studio production.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

José Herring said:


> Definitely the horns in the Opus version sound an octave too high.
> 
> But, given that they both kind of have their charm. The strings in BBCSO are kind of cool sounding in this style. The brass in BBCSO is too mushy so I have to hand it to HOOPUS.
> 
> The HOOPUS version overall just has more life and bite to it-- sounds more like a good studio production.


What would be the reasoning behind dropping the horns an octave? Are you using "horns" to mean the entire brass section or just the French horns?


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## MusiquedeReve

I started the Groove3 HOOPUS course (which has been excellent so far and I am taking notes to post a proper review once I am finished)

However, I am having issues duplicating what is being demonstrated in the video re: multitimbral

The steps are as follows (I am using Logic Pro, just like in the video):

*1-Create a new track as multitimbral*





*2-Add OPUS as the Instrument and make sure that in the Opus preferences, the MIDI is set to Auto Increment






3-Choose the 4 Opus instruments I want and drag them to the "rack" on the left hand side of the Opus window



*

After doing all that, here is what each Channel looks like in the Logic Pro Inspector pane:





So, the issue is, in the video, the instructor clicks on each of the 4 tracks in Logic and then presses the keys on the keyboard shown in Opus and the instrument changes with each one in accordance with the 4 instruments in Opus

However, when I do that, all it does is stay on the Oboe (the last instrument in the rack)

The only way I can get it to change instruments is if I open the Logic keyboard

Is this how it is supposed to work or am I missing something?


----------



## alcorey

MorphineNoir said:


> I started the Groove3 HOOPUS course (which has been excellent so far and I am taking notes to post a proper review once I am finished)
> 
> However, I am having issues duplicating what is being demonstrated in the video re: multitimbral
> 
> The steps are as follows (I am using Logic Pro, just like in the video):
> 
> *1-Create a new track as multitimbral*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2-Add OPUS as the Instrument and make sure that in the Opus preferences, the MIDI is set to Auto Increment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3-Choose the 4 Opus instruments I want and drag them to the "rack" on the left hand side of the Opus window
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> After doing all that, here is what each Channel looks like in the Logic Pro Inspector pane:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the issue is, in the video, the instructor clicks on each of the 4 tracks in Logic and then presses the keys on the keyboard shown in Opus and the instrument changes with each one in accordance with the 4 instruments in Opus
> 
> However, when I do that, all it does is stay on the Oboe (the last instrument in the rack)
> 
> The only way I can get it to change instruments is if I open the Logic keyboard
> 
> Is this how it is supposed to work or am I missing something?


Are you playing from a physical keyboard? You cannot do this using only the Opus keyboard


----------



## ip20

MorphineNoir said:


> I started the Groove3 HOOPUS course (which has been excellent so far and I am taking notes to post a proper review once I am finished)



Is this the Explained course of 2 hours+ by Eli?

I’m eagerly looking forward to your review and thoughts when you complete it as I’m considering it.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

MorphineNoir said:


> Is this how it is supposed to work or am I missing something?


You need to use a MIDI controller. Preferably with a MOD wheel because many instruments are silent until you increase the CC value.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

alcorey said:


> Are you playing from a physical keyboard? You cannot do this using only the Opus keyboard


Ahhhhhhh ok - that's why it was only working when I used the Logic Pro virtual keyboard



ip20 said:


> Is this the Explained course of 2 hours+ by Eli?
> 
> I’m eagerly looking forward to your review and thoughts when you complete it as I’m considering it.


Yes - it is the course with Eli as the instructor - I am writing a mini-review of each video as I watch them - I have watched 5 of the videos so far - a lot to digest



Jeremy Spencer said:


> You need to use a MIDI controller. Preferably with a MOD wheel because many instruments are silent until you increase the CC value.


Thanks - I have a Komplete Kontrol keyboard but did not have it set up as I was watching the videos and my desk is not a studio desk where I can have the keyboard on a slide out tray


----------



## MusiquedeReve

Am I correct in my thinking that the envelope controller in Opus is akin to controlling dynamics without MIDI CC?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

MorphineNoir said:


> Am I correct in my thinking that the envelope controller in Opus is akin to controlling dynamics without MIDI CC?


No, it's for controlling volume lengths and loudness for a sample. Such as release, attack and sustain. These are not CC values.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

Jeremy Spencer said:


> No, it's for controlling volume lengths and loudness for a sample. Such as release, attack and sustain. These are not CC values.


Ok thank you


----------



## MusiquedeReve

ip20 said:


> Is this the Explained course of 2 hours+ by Eli?
> 
> I’m eagerly looking forward to your review and thoughts when you complete it as I’m considering it.








My review of "Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition Explained" on Groove3


My review of the Groove3 Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition course Instructor: Eli Krantzberg Video 1: Introduction, Download & Installation This was an informative video regarding installing HOOPUS - since I already had it installed, it was irrelevant to me but a good video overall if...




vi-control.net


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

awaey said:


> ive been trying to fix since last night and it wont fix ,, i need help please can someone tell me how to fix this issue....?


Try submitting a support ticket, they are really good at responding.


----------



## LNSBro

New user here. I've just purchased OPUS with their harddrive option. I have not installed it yet, but when I look at the instructions included in the box, one of the steps mentions to install the latest Play software version.... hmm.. Are these instructions correct for OPUS Diamond? image of instructions attached. BTW, I have never owned the Play version. This is my first EastWest Orchestra. Also, this is one heck of a group of knowledgeable users. I'm really looking forward to working with this Orchestra. From what I'm hearing, this software has to be one of the best out there. Also, I hope they get the sustain pedal to work in a future upgrade for Orchestrator. I would like to use this feature live and by watching the demos, it appears your hands need to be glued to the keyboard using the Orchestrator. The sustain peday will really help here.


----------



## rnb_2

LNSBro said:


> New user here. I've just purchased OPUS with their harddrive option. I have not installed it yet, but when I look at the instructions included in the box, one of the steps mentions to install the latest Play software version.... hmm.. Are these instructions correct for OPUS Diamond? image of instructions attached. BTW, I have never owned the Play version. This is my first EastWest Orchestra. Also, this is one heck of a group of knowledgeable users. I'm really looking forward to working with this Orchestra. From what I'm hearing, this software has to be one of the best out there. Also, I hope they get the sustain pedal to work in a future upgrade for Orchestrator. I would like to use this feature live and by watching the demos, it appears your hands need to be glued to the keyboard using the Orchestrator. The sustain peday will really help here.


You do not have to install Play any more, just Opus.

(Edit - @Jeremy Spencer gave a better, more complete answer to this)


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

LNSBro said:


> New user here. I've just purchased OPUS with their harddrive option. I have not installed it yet, but when I look at the instructions included in the box, one of the steps mentions to install the latest Play software version.... hmm.. Are these instructions correct for OPUS Diamond? image of instructions attached. BTW, I have never owned the Play version. This is my first EastWest Orchestra. Also, this is one heck of a group of knowledgeable users. I'm really looking forward to working with this Orchestra. From what I'm hearing, this software has to be one of the best out there. Also, I hope they get the sustain pedal to work in a future upgrade for Orchestrator. I would like to use this feature live and by watching the demos, it appears your hands need to be glued to the keyboard using the Orchestrator. The sustain peday will really help here.


Just plug in your hard drive, and then download and install the EW Installation Center from Soundsonline. You can then install and activate OPUS and the associated libraries. 

I agree about the sustain pedal, many of us have requested this feature with EW and apparently it's in the works. You'll love Opus, it is for sure a top tier library.


----------



## LNSBro

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Just plug in your hard drive, and then download and install the EW Installation Center from Soundsonline. You can then install and activate OPUS and the associated libraries.
> 
> I agree about the sustain pedal, many of us have requested this feature with EW and apparently it's in the works. You'll love Opus, it is for sure a top tier library.


Excellent, thank you!


----------



## 3CPU

*Hi LNSBro and Jeremy Spencer*,

Can I enter CC64 manually in the editor afterwards?

Just asking because I am seriously considering moving from PC to Apple M1 10-core, EW Opus GUI and libraries are on my list! Fully compatible according to EW support. And from what I hear, the pianos are also pretty good, and EWSO is still very useful considering its been around for a long time.


----------



## Question-Guy

3CPU said:


> *Hi LNSBro and Jeremy Spencer*,
> 
> Can I enter CC64 manually in the editor afterwards?
> 
> Just asking because I am seriously considering moving from PC to Apple M1 10-core, EW Opus GUI and libraries are on my list! Fully compatible according to EW support. And from what I hear, the pianos are also pretty good, and EWSO is still very useful considering its been around for a long time.


The pianos don't support sostenuto and do not have any pedal noises, mechanical noises etc. samples. So I would not recommend them for piano solo work because they feel a little bit cold. I also have stil problems with the dynamics, you can hear the steps. In a mix or orchestral setting they can really shine though. Also pop music or electronic music. So I still use them a lot! The Bösendorfer also features 96 keys, so you can have extra deep bass.


----------



## 3CPU

Question-Guy said:


> The pianos don't support sostenuto and do not have any pedal noises, mechanical noises etc. samples. So I would not recommend them for piano solo work because they feel a little bit cold. I also have stil problems with the dynamics, you can hear the steps. In a mix or orchestral setting they can really shine though. Also pop music or electronic music. So I still use them a lot! The Bösendorfer also features 96 keys, so you can have extra deep bass.


Thanks Guy, 

Greatly appreciate your reply.

All the very best.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

3CPU said:


> *Hi LNSBro and Jeremy Spencer*,
> 
> Can I enter CC64 manually in the editor afterwards?
> 
> Just asking because I am seriously considering moving from PC to Apple M1 10-core, EW Opus GUI and libraries are on my list! Fully compatible according to EW support. And from what I hear, the pianos are also pretty good, and EWSO is still very useful considering its been around for a long time.


You mean inside your DAW? Of course. Or you could just use a sustain pedal (?)


----------



## 3CPU

Jeremy Spencer said:


> You mean inside your DAW? Of course. Or you could just use a sustain pedal (?)


I usually do that. Thanks! Appreciate your reply. 

All the very best.


----------



## MichaelBears

Good morning!

Being new to Opus Orchestra, I was experimenting with the articulation sets that EW provides for the KS patches (using Logic Pro here). These sets work a-ok if I want to manually assign articulations to notes in the piano roll. However, I don't think that the EW articulation sets record & embed keyswitches when they're played in live - as occurs with other articulation sets (say Logic Studio Strings or LASS 3 - where no distinct C0-ish keyswitch is recorded on the piano roll; the articulation is instead 'packaged' into the played note itself).

Looking at the EW articulation sets, this seems to occur because they're lacking any switch assignments in the LogicPro articulation set editor (first section). Makes sense that one might want to add those later I guess. However, if I try to add anything (by pressing the '+' button), nothing happens. If I export the articulation set from within Opus, same thing (i.e., '+' doesn't work). Are those sets locked to prevent editing? Anything that I'm overlooking?

I can get it to work if I start from scratch - I made a simple three-articulation set from scratch, filled out all three sections in Logic's articulation set editor, and it behaved as hoped - keyswitches performed live were recorded 'into' the played notes and nothing was retained at the low end of the piano roll.

Appreciate any pointers - maybe I'm overlooking something wildly simple.


----------



## cqd

Evening folks..I've been wrestling with porting over my vepro template from pro tools to studio one..
One beneficial outcome of a couple of days of frustration was that I went and rebalanced/mixed it better in Opus/vepro (well, just put most stuff to the furthest mics pretty much)..
The last thing is the few stormdrum patches and ive been looking at the mixer/reverb within Opus..It's kind of confusing me tbh..the routing seems weird..has anyone got familiar with it?..How cpu intensive are the effects are people finding?..I might go back over it the whole thing and do it there properly I think..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

For some reason, all of the presets are now missing from Orchestrator (except for the individual multi patches). Has anyone else had this issue?


----------



## cqd

Just on the reverb/back end mixer in Opus..
It's powerful..


----------



## muziksculp

Congratulations to *EastWest - Sounds On Line* for winning

*Sound On Sounds* *Best Software Instrument Award for 2022 : * 
*Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition*


----------



## Markrs

muziksculp said:


> Congratulations to *EastWest - Sounds On Line* for winning
> 
> *Sound On Sounds* *Best Software Instrument Award for 2022 :
> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition*


A worthy winner, the Opus update is excellent and breathes new life into the still excellently recorded samples.


----------



## muziksculp

Markrs said:


> A worthy winner, the Opus update is excellent and breathes new life into the still excellently recorded samples.


Their OPUS player alone deserves an award.


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> Their OPUS player alone deserves an award.


Sonuscore should share in that too.


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> Sonuscore should share in that too.


Yes, totally. Since they are the designers of the software.


----------



## Fleer

Kudos to EastWest.

Question, though. If we got HoOpus Gold earlier on, can we still download and use it? Would be handy for laptops configs.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## ALittleNightMusic

@Rtomproductions Loved this one and the detail you go into for the orchestration!


----------



## muziksculp

ALittleNightMusic said:


> @Rtomproductions Loved this one and the detail you go into for the orchestration!


This also shows how HOOPUS is very versatile, and can be used for more delicate, and dark emotional scores, and not just the Epic Hollywood style scores.


----------



## 3CPU

muziksculp said:


>



I enjoyed this video on scoring and other videos regarding the Opus UI, orchestra and pianos, thanks for sharing. EW content is excellent and adaptable to anything from Neanderthal to contemporary hybrid orchestral work and everything in between.


----------



## aeliron

Fleer said:


> Kudos to EastWest.
> 
> Question, though. If we got HoOpus Gold earlier on, can we still download and use it? Would be handy for laptops configs.


Wonder if they could provide you another license for your laptop if you owned Gold.


----------



## Fleer

aeliron said:


> Wonder if they could provide you another license for your laptop if you owned Gold.


I got both of them separately (not through an upgrade).


----------



## aeliron

Fleer said:


> I got both of them separately (not through an upgrade).


Right, it's possible they might authorize HOOPUS on another computer since you got them separately, I don't know. If you can't re-install Gold, that is.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## cqd

Nice..a lot more orchestrator presets coming!!
Really seems like there's a vision there going forward too..


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

DarinD said:


> I didn't get a response on re-bows.


Have we received no response to re-bows? 

How do you guys handle repeating the same note with legato?


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder if they will release new, complementing Orchestral content for HOOPUS during 2022 , as expansions to the current content ? 

That would be great, I also wish they revisit some of their older libraries, ie. RA, Silk, ...etc.


----------



## 3CPU

EW have been around for a very long time, and it is good to see them continue to raise the bar. Opus has many good features, Purge and Purge on Load, and be able to download my favorites to save SSD space (ComposerCloud+)

Custom articulations and more. Orchestrator is great for newbies to get started quickly, better explained by watching the video; 





I would like to see EW add a Sampler to Opus that also accepts layers, and have really nice filters on par or better than Dune 3. This would be awesome. But then again, Logic Pro or Cubase Pro have pretty good Samplers.


----------



## Quantum Leap

I’ll probably record the next phase of HOOPUS in the fall, I’m guessing. I have a plan already. Just need to find the time.


----------



## muziksculp

Quantum Leap said:


> I’ll probably record the next phase of HOOPUS in the fall, I’m guessing. I have a plan already. Just need to find the time.


That's wonderful. But Fall is still eight months away. Why wait so long to begin ?


----------



## Quantum Leap

We are finishing the latest Two Steps From Hell album. I am finishing Forbidden Planet for EW. I have some other projects. The studio is booked for a few months Anyway, Two Steps is touring Europe this summer. So it’s probably fall.


----------



## muziksculp

Quantum Leap said:


> We are finishing the latest Two Steps From Hell album. I am finishing Forbidden Planet for EW. I have some other projects. The studio is booked for a few months Anyway, Two Steps is touring Europe this summer. So it’s probably fall.


@Quantum Leap ,

I wish you all the best with your future projects.

Knowing that you have plans for the next phase of HOOPUS is already exciting.

Thanks.


----------



## 3CPU

Quantum Leap said:


> We are finishing the latest Two Steps From Hell album. I am finishing Forbidden Planet for EW. I have some other projects. The studio is booked for a few months Anyway, Two Steps is touring Europe this summer. So it’s probably fall.


Forbidden Planet was released more than 10 years old, ideal for Sci-Fi sounds, really cool plugin.

Love the content from EW. Wish you all the very best.


----------



## Phaedraz

Quantum Leap said:


> We are finishing the latest Two Steps From Hell album. I am finishing Forbidden Planet for EW. I have some other projects. The studio is booked for a few months Anyway, Two Steps is touring Europe this summer. So it’s probably fall.


That's a busy schedule! Regarding European tour, I don't see any dates for the Nordic countries... would've loved to experience the show!


----------



## Quantum Leap

Yeah, I guess Amsterdam is the closest. Hopefully nothing stops the tour this year. 
Forbidden Planet was never released by the way. Lol. Only announced more than 10 years ago. But it is coming soon.


----------



## AllanH

Quantum Leap said:


> [...]
> Forbidden Planet was never released by the way. Lol. Only announced more than 10 years ago. But it is coming soon.


That has to be a pre-announcement record! 
Looking forward to it.


----------



## samphony

Quantum Leap said:


> Yeah, I guess Amsterdam is the closest. Hopefully nothing stops the tour this year.
> Forbidden Planet was never released by the way. Lol. Only announced more than 10 years ago. But it is coming soon.


Knowing that the Wolf-Gang 😅 is behind the new OPUS engine gave me confidence to invest in your products. #trueengineericons

Could you share a glimpse at your current workflow maybe in a dedicated thread?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

3CPU said:


> Forbidden Planet was released more than 10 years old


Huh? It’s not even out yet Lol.


----------



## 3CPU

Quantum Leap said:


> Forbidden Planet was never released by the way. Lol. Only announced more than 10 years ago. But it is coming soon.







I confused released with announced, 14 years is a long, long time ago! My apology, my memory is not that great lol.

Thank "You" for clearing that up, very happy that Fobidden Planet will finally be coming soon.

See article - Link - it might have been posted on April 1st, a long time ago, lol

And so I posted my comment on this thread, and I am glad that got clear up quickly. Thanks.

And this will be my last post on these forums, others get there kicks by humilating over an honest misunderstanding. I tried to be a good contributor to this and other forums. Good luck and best wishes to you all, forums are not for me.


----------



## Fleer

Pretty amazing stuff coming up according to that interview, there’s even a sequel to Ghostwriter in the works by Steven Wilson. And I love the idea of using the mod wheel for sound design between a synth and an acoustic instrument. Go, EastWest !


----------



## Fleer

On a related topic, here’s me wondering how to fill three empty Samsung 1TB SSDs, two T5s and one T7. 
I’m thinking I’ll use a T5 for HoOpus Diamond (942GB) and the other T5 for Choirs, Backup Singers, Pianos Platinum and more EW libraries (including HoOpus Gold), while filling the T7 with BBCSO Pro, Tundra, Neo and One.


----------



## BasariStudios

Dear God... I came back 1 Year later.


----------



## Fleer

You are forgiven, son.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

BasariStudios said:


> Dear God... I came back 1 Year later.


I hope you have a ton of new music to share with us!


----------



## szczaw

BasariStudios said:


> Dear God... I came back 1 Year later.


Welcome back. So.. did you get Opus ?


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Have we received no response to re-bows?
> 
> How do you guys handle repeating the same note with legato?


with a soft break and accent on volume or expression


----------



## BassClef

Quantum Leap said:


> I’ll probably record the next phase of HOOPUS in the fall, I’m guessing. I have a plan already. Just need to find the time.


Does this mean new sample content? Replacements for some of the weaker instruments and/or articulations? All new instruments? Color me excited!


----------



## BasariStudios

szczaw said:


> Welcome back. So.. did you get Opus ?


Yep, i actually did, last year in the Summer i think, i caved in.



Jeremy Spencer said:


> I hope you have a ton of new music to share with us!


Nope. I finally moved to the new House, for over 10 months
i did not even turn the studio on.


----------



## Allen Constantine

Guys,
Can you try loading up Opus, load up the 3Clarinets(any patch you want- I've tried it on the sus patch as like the one selected in the screenshot), play G4 and Bb4 simultaneously and hold them as long as you can - do you hear some clicking and popping noises when the sample loops?

The error is on every patch from the 3CL.


----------



## larry777

Hi all,
The thread is pretty long and I couldn't find a definitive answer to my question.
I would like to use a nvme M.2 SSD ( Corsair Force MP600 Core 4 To )
for east west opus Hollywood orchestra diamond and other vst's like omnisphere or falcon, will it be
give an improvement over regular Sata SSD"s ? Any experiences with M.2 and opus and omnisphere over sata ?
Thanks.


----------



## cqd

larry777 said:


> Hi all,
> The thread is pretty long and I couldn't find a definitive answer to my question.
> I would like to use a nvme M.2 SSD ( Corsair Force MP600 Core 4 To )
> for east west opus Hollywood orchestra diamond and other vst's like omnisphere or falcon, will it be
> give an improvement over regular Sata SSD"s ? Any experiences with M.2 and opus and omnisphere over sata ?
> Thanks.


Personally I get about twice the speed according to some program..tbh it doesn't seem to be much better, I think if you're working off a couple of separate ssds you'd get close to the same..
I think I might not have mine set up properly though..I think if you're using RAID they might perform better, but I'd need 5tb to move stuff to to switch over..


----------



## larry777

Well, thanks, yes I am working off separate SSD's so I guess I won't get such a great improvement, someone said in a thread that for east-west opus the loading time was instantaneous for key switch instruments ( Violin 1 are 9 gigs for example ) but I couldn't find out if he was using gen4 PCI express of its motherboard ( which I don't have, mine is only gen3), I think I'll wait before spending 600 EUR for this kind of SSD's if it doesn't improve greatly. Thanks again.


----------



## cqd

larry777 said:


> Well, thanks, yes I am working off separate SSD's so I guess I won't get such a great improvement, someone said in a thread that for east-west opus the loading time was instantaneous for key switch instruments ( Violin 1 are 9 gigs for example ) but I couldn't find out if he was using gen4 PCI express of its motherboard ( which I don't have, mine is only gen3), I think I'll wait before spending 600 EUR for this kind of SSD's if it doesn't improve greatly. Thanks again.


If you're loading a template make sure it's purged..


----------



## larry777

Yes absolutely, I have the instruments keyswitch loaded purged and channel inactive in VEP so there is no memory print in cubase and vienna at all.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Emanuel Fróes said:


> with a soft break and accent on volume or expression


Thanks for the advice, but so far all my attempts have failed. It seems that without true performance in samples, it will not be possible to achieve a convincing result (this is like with a true and fake legato, a re-bow must be real). It's a pity that such an important thing is missing from this library.


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Thanks for the advice, but so far all my attempts have failed. It seems that without true performance in samples, it will not be possible to achieve a convincing result (this is like with a true and fake legato, a re-bow must be real). It's a pity that such an important thing is missing from this library.


If is a solo passage yeah it looks harder, so you have to consider how much time you invest on this. I would not like to spend the saturday night editing a bow change 

BUt if is in the polyphony, i think volume and expression are the praxis while libraries can´t consider such basics....

There is a lot of good composers who have no idea of instrumentation i guess, because they give idolatry to some libraries without telling the developers some BASICS that misses. Gratulations for alöl developers, but common: there are some basics missing.

For exemplo two things:


measuring tremolo, or even accelerando or desacellerando

sul tasto <> sul pont changes


For these two my solution is only with the sampler of Logic Pro possible, where i created the strings as i would ideally like it. I can change gradually from sul tasto to sul pont with a fader. The point is: everything should be about faders in strings, it is all gradually made with bow positions and pressure.

But it happens that using EastWest i start to forgot my own instrument, and also because the strings in Logic have a questionable bow noise, that kills the reverb or the compression later


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

Emanuel Fróes said:


> If is a solo passage yeah it looks harder, so you have to consider how much time you invest on this. I would not like to spend the saturday night editing a bow change
> 
> BUt if is in the polyphony, i think volume and expression are the praxis while libraries can´t consider such basics....
> 
> There is a lot of good composers who have no idea of instrumentation i guess, because they give idolatry to some libraries without telling the developers some BASICS that misses. Gratulations for alöl developers, but common: there are some basics missing.
> 
> For exemplo two things:
> 
> 
> measuring tremolo, or even accelerando or desacellerando
> 
> sul tasto <> sul pont changes
> 
> 
> For these two my solution is only with the sampler of Logic Pro possible, where i created the strings as i would ideally like it. I can change gradually from sul tasto to sul pont with a fader. The point is: everything should be about faders in strings, it is all gradually made with bow positions and pressure.
> 
> But it happens that using EastWest i start to forgot my own instrument, and also because the strings in Logic have a questionable bow noise, that kills the reverb or the compression later


----------



## cqd

Just noticed there..the crossfade between the two layers on the new 2 trumpets patch is shocking..


----------



## MichaelBears

Easy question being new to this library: For the lite vs max versions of the legato patches, what changes to make them "light"? I've been playing the legato patches live in Logic Pro with one instance of EW spaces and the combined CPU usage isn't minor (2019 i9 imac, testing buffers from 32 up to 256). I'm also experimenting with VEPro and AudioGridder, but curious - feasible to start with the lite patches for smoother operation, then render with the max versions?


----------



## MauroPantin

MichaelBears said:


> Easy question being new to this library: For the lite vs max versions of the legato patches, what changes to make them "light"? I've been playing the legato patches live in Logic Pro with one instance of EW spaces and the combined CPU usage isn't minor (2019 i9 imac, testing buffers from 32 up to 256). I'm also experimenting with VEPro and AudioGridder, but curious - feasible to start with the lite patches for smoother operation, then render with the max versions?


Should work, but do listen to make sure the performances are still correct when you go from LITE to MAX. 

MAX patches have much more dynamic layers and vibrato layers, and you need to check to make sure that it translates well before printing the stems.


----------



## dewaard

Does anyone know if Hollywood Orchestra Opus supports CC based articulation switching? Similar to UACC?


----------



## cqd

dewaard said:


> Does anyone know if Hollywood Orchestra Opus supports CC based articulation switching? Similar to UACC?


Yeah, you can select it in the articulations page I'm nearly sure..


----------



## labyrinths

dewaard said:


> Does anyone know if Hollywood Orchestra Opus supports CC based articulation switching? Similar to UACC?


This is how I have all my instruments set up in my template. It's a bit fiddly to set up (mostly because of some annoying UI quirks and bugs that may be ironed out in the future), but you can save the patch when you're done so you don't have to worry about it again.


----------



## dewaard

cqd said:


> Yeah, you can select it in the articulations page I'm nearly sure..


Great, thanks for the info!



labyrinths said:


> This is how I have all my instruments set up in my template. It's a bit fiddly to set up (mostly because of some annoying UI quirks and bugs that may be ironed out in the future), but you can save the patch when you're done so you don't have to worry about it again.


Can you please elaborate on this, i'm planning to integrate this library in to my VSL template next week, so any information about troubles during the implementation can probably save me some time. Thanks!


----------



## labyrinths

dewaard said:


> Can you please elaborate on this, i'm planning to integrate this library in to my VSL template next week, so any information about troubles during the implementation can probably save me some time. Thanks!


It was relatively minor stuff in the long run, but I first tried setting up the articulation switching using program change events, which I couldn't get working at all. It's possible this wasn't an Opus issue but rather a Reaticulate problem or user error, but I'm not sure as I didn't spend too much time on it. Plus the program change number kept appearing one digit lower than the number I'd selected.

Once I'd settled on using CC32 and mapping everything to UACC-equivalent values, it was pretty quick, but there were a few annoyances (though again minor). You have to set both the upper and lower CC range, which meant I had to enter the same value twice. Also, sometimes the wrong articulation would appear to be selected when I was setting the CC values. This turned out to just be a display issue. The most significant annoyance was that the only way to close the pop-up menu while editing CC values was to hit the escape key – once to stop editing the text field, and again to close the pop up – which resulted in me accidentally closing the floating FX window a few times by mistake, too. It went pretty quickly once I got the hang of it though, and everything works great now!


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

Geomir said:


> What exactly do you mean I don't know what I am writing about? So all these posts here are fake? Of course I drew this conclusion for myself, since I have never seen so many pages of problems, from senior members with great knowledge of music and technology.
> 
> Or do you consider it a success that "It's an OK release, for some people it worked", ignoring that it's not working for so many others?
> 
> Can you name me a more problematic release please? Now I am really curious.


Exactly. THe support is "great" because it HAS to be, after many bugs etc., or things that make the basic use a mystery or unreliable for pros. The support is also great because so many supports are terrible nowadays! There was many bugs or important hindrances for a basic use as a composer, and now we have some improvements. This is why the support worked so many hours  Actually if it were so great the Support would be not in stress. The support helped me also remotely, i find very helpful this and the quick chat, however...I never heard any thanks for my attempts of HELPING THEM help us .... Or any apology about things that are absolutely NOT ok yet, or incomplete. They tried to help me but my problem of the interface of Opus not appearing in some instruments still persist, after reinstalling and all those rituals. I also did some important mistakes while following a huge list of steps in Finder. I can program but is supposed that they at least apologize for me having to work so much in this inconvenience. It is normal to expect some basic access to the bought product no ? I appreciate EW very much, and mind-blowing sounds, but this point is a fleck, at least in my experience. But things can change! I imagine they had so much stress in the support, because of these incomplete aspects of the app. But they can be a little more humble, I noticed this.... like, they never show the errors in the website when giving updates anymore? It would be nice to be like Logic Pro release notes, also for the orchestrator. They did some mystical updates there, i still don't know which issue was solved? I also reached out to say thanks for some update months ago, and i was happy to have some issues solved, and again: no sign of mistakes by their parts. It is all perfect as software, because the recordings are good...

Maybe I reach out to them again to suggest a batch purge function, or to show that surprisingly Opus has some important advantages next to Kontakt 6, still worth of consideration.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Emanuel Fróes said:


> they never show the errors in the website when giving updates anymore? It would be nice to be like Logic Pro release notes, also for the orchestrator. They did some mystical updates there, i still don't know which issue was solved?


This!! It would definitely help to have release notes. I really want to LOVE Opus, as I've been a happy Play user forever, but it's still not reliable enough for me yet. Hopefully they'll get it to the next level this year. Here's hoping...


----------



## Fibigero

I have the problem with opus that when I use it as a plugin in Logic Pro, and then use the orchestrator with one of the presets, the CPU meter that I see in opus quickly starts going towards 100% and I get noise and pops and all that stuff. Also the CPU meter in logic pro). It's almost unusable to use, except for slow sustain notes.
When I use the standalone version I don't have any issues.


----------



## Leon Portelance

Ordered with the hard drive. Guess it will arrive soon. Years ago, my very first sample library was EWQLSO Silver.


----------



## Fleer

You old geezer you


----------



## aeliron

Fibigero said:


> I have the problem with opus that when I use it as a plugin in Logic Pro, and then use the orchestrator with one of the presets, the CPU meter that I see in opus quickly starts going towards 100% and I get noise and pops and all that stuff. Also the CPU meter in logic pro). It's almost unusable to use, except for slow sustain notes.
> When I use the standalone version I don't have any issues.


Check with their tech support. They're pretty helpful.


----------



## ned3000

Just going to jump in here to rant about my pet issue with Opus. It doesn't share RAM between duplicate instruments the way Play did. Why am I the only person complaining about this? Are you guys not using like, four instance of the horns or whatever?


----------



## jamieboo

ned3000 said:


> Just going to jump in here to rant about my pet issue with Opus. It doesn't share RAM between duplicate instruments the way Play did. Why am I the only person complaining about this? Are you guys not using like, four instance of the horns or whatever?


This is a bit crazy! I won't be starting to use Opus until I upgrade my machine, but I have heard this issue mentioned here and there, but not really fully discussed.
Is this really the case? Has anyone spoken to EW about it?


----------



## aeliron

ned3000 said:


> Just going to jump in here to rant about my pet issue with Opus. It doesn't share RAM between duplicate instruments the way Play did. Why am I the only person complaining about this? Are you guys not using like, four instance of the horns or whatever?


All seasoned composers know to use the overtones of the kazoo section instead of multiple horns.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

ned3000 said:


> Just going to jump in here to rant about my pet issue with Opus. It doesn't share RAM between duplicate instruments the way Play did. Why am I the only person complaining about this? Are you guys not using like, four instance of the horns or whatever?


Yeah, I found that out as well, but it doesn't affect performance on my system. For me, OPUS is moth-balled until they fix the annoying release samples in the strings. Until then, still happily using Play for the Hollywood series.


----------



## aeliron

Fibigero said:


> I have the problem with opus that when I use it as a plugin in Logic Pro, and then use the orchestrator with one of the presets, the CPU meter that I see in opus quickly starts going towards 100% and I get noise and pops and all that stuff. Also the CPU meter in logic pro). It's almost unusable to use, except for slow sustain notes.
> When I use the standalone version I don't have any issues.


I get some pops/spikes when a lot of stuff is playing, and I have a VI track selected, but not with one instance of orchestrator.

In M1 mode I do get hanging notes, though.


----------



## ned3000

jamieboo said:


> This is a bit crazy! I won't be starting to use Opus until I upgrade my machine, but I have heard this issue mentioned here and there, but not really fully discussed.
> Is this really the case? Has anyone spoken to EW about it?


I had a support ticket w/ EW when Opus was first released; they did acknowledge the issue but I haven't heard about any progress on fixing it.


----------



## Nimrod7

Anyone is experiencing long save times in Logic with OPUS? 
Around 80 tracks, 30 instances of OPUS, and Logic does a minute to save.

Being used to hit Cmd-S after every note, it's a workflow killer.


----------



## almo

Yes


----------



## aeliron

Nimrod7 said:


> Anyone is experiencing long save times in Logic with OPUS?
> Around 80 tracks, 30 instances of OPUS, and Logic does a minute to save.
> 
> Being used to hit Cmd-S after every note, it's a workflow killer.


Yep


----------



## aeliron

jamieboo said:


> This is a bit crazy! I won't be starting to use Opus until I upgrade my machine, but I have heard this issue mentioned here and there, but not really fully discussed.
> Is this really the case? Has anyone spoken to EW about it?


I generally don't have problems using Opus, in Rosetta mode if I want to use Orchestrator, although others report that Opus otherwise runs great in M1 mode.

But yeah, make sure to let their tech support know if you experience any problems ... so they can put it on their list or escalate.


----------



## Evans

Kicking it old school (mostly EWHO, not HOOPUS), he's back.


----------



## almo

Nimrod7 said:


> Anyone is experiencing long save times in Logic with OPUS?
> Around 80 tracks, 30 instances of OPUS, and Logic does a minute to save.
> 
> Being used to hit Cmd-S after every note, it's a workflow killer.


hey.. do you still have the same problem, regarding saving delay with logic and opus? Even with the latest logic, it hasn't been better..


----------



## Nimrod7

almo said:


> hey.. do you still have the same problem, regarding saving delay with logic and opus? Even with the latest logic, it hasn't been better..


Yes I do, I kind of abandoned the Library, since I can not work with this bug, even if I like the sound.
I annoyed support 2-3 times, they said it's known to them, but they don't have any update if / or when it will be fixed. :(


----------



## almo

Oh.. good to know.. but sad, that they don‘‚ have have any update.. I’ve read that there will be an update soon.. and I hope they will fix that bug


----------



## BasariStudios

As of now my Opus is completely useless, hanging notes and notes completely unloaded out of RAM making no sound. Nick shows off how Spaces blows out Alti Verb of the water but nobody fixes these things we paid for.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

BasariStudios said:


> As of now my Opus is completely useless, hanging notes and notes completely unloaded out of RAM making no sound. Nick shows off how Spaces blows out Alti Verb of the water but nobody fixes these things we paid for.


You’re having issues with Spaces? Still of my top reverbs, no issues.


----------



## EgM

I use it everyday without any problems, I don't have any hanging notes and I don't try to remap CC11/1 though

Granted I haven't read this whole thread


----------



## szczaw

All is good here with Opus and Spaces. I'm looking forward to the update and new recordings.


----------



## José Herring

I use it everyday. For me no real problems with Opus. Maybe it takes a little time to save but no more than demanding Kontakt libraries and certainly far better than the Spitfire and Sine players.


----------



## BasariStudios

I meant Opus, not Spaces, i have too many problems with it.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

EgM said:


> I haven't read this whole thread


I feel sorry for anyone who has


----------



## BasariStudios

Laurin Lenschow said:


> I feel sorry for anyone who has


Since the end of 2020 i think i did


----------



## Leon Portelance

No problem with Opus on Logic Pro.


----------



## rlundv

Moved my Opus template to VEP because of this. Win 10, Cubase 12 Pro.


----------



## RKM33

wsimpson said:


> I get stuck notes all the time and it is unusable. I have opened a support incident with EastWest. I will report back what I hear from them.


Having the same problem. Were you able to get this resolved?


----------



## wkundrus

BasariStudios said:


> As of now my Opus is completely useless, hanging notes and notes completely unloaded out of RAM making no sound. Nick shows off how Spaces blows out Alti Verb of the water but nobody fixes these things we paid for.


Could you give us some more details ? We may be able to help as what you describe is not what most Opus users experience. Feel free to PM me.


----------



## BasariStudios

wkundrus said:


> Could you give us some more details ? We may be able to help as what you describe is not what most Opus users experience. Feel free to PM me.


There is not really many details, open an Instance of OPUS, Load one of the Ensemble, Scoring or Ostinato Presets, start playing, change a preset...and it starts. 5-6 random keys make no sound. Looking at the GUI the keys are responsive, also white indicating loaded Samples but there is no sounds like the samples dropped out of ram. At this point is totally useless because it does the same thing during playback too, if you crate a midi file when played back those notes will not make sound. Same thing in Cubase 10.5 same thing in standalone. Reloading OPUS or the Patch won't fix it, you have to restart Cubase.


----------



## wkundrus

BasariStudios said:


> There is not really many details, open an Instance of OPUS, Load one of the Ensemble, Scoring or Ostinato Presets, start playing, change a preset...and it starts. 5-6 random keys make no sound. Looking at the GUI the keys are responsive, also white indicating loaded Samples but there is no sounds like the samples dropped out of ram. At this point is totally useless because it does the same thing during playback too, if you crate a midi file when played back those notes will not make sound. Same thing in Cubase 10.5 same thing in standalone. Reloading OPUS or the Patch won't fix it, you have to restart Cubase.


Thanks. That sounds serious. I want to investigate. Do you have example material ? A Cubase song that shows that behaviour ?


----------



## BasariStudios

wkundrus said:


> Thanks. That sounds serious. I want to investigate. Do you have example material ? A Cubase song that shows that behaviour ?


I can probably make one tonight and send. Let me know about any Logs.


----------



## wkundrus

BasariStudios said:


> I can probably make one tonight and send. Let me know about any Logs.


On Mac the Opus log files are at /Library/Application Support/East West/Opus/log
And on Windows C:\ProgramData\East West\Opus\log


----------



## aeliron

wkundrus said:


> Could you give us some more details ? We may be able to help as what you describe is not what most Opus users experience. Feel free to PM me.


Definitely hanging notes in Logic, Orchestrator in M1 mode. Not in Rosetta.


----------



## Markrs

Hollywood Orchestra Opus Diamond is only *$334.32 *at JRRShop using the code: Group






JRRshop.com | EastWest Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition Diamond


EastWest Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition Diamond




www.jrrshop.com


----------



## Geomir

I am trying (more than 1 hour now) to check the upgrade prices in EW's official Opus webpage, but when I click "Buy Now", it starts loading forever. Hopefully they will fix it soon.


----------



## Geomir

It seems to be fixed now! Same upgrade prices. No sales there. It's more expensive to upgrade than buying it new.


----------



## Markrs

Geomir said:


> It seems to be fixed now! Same upgrade prices. No sales there. It's more expensive to upgrade than buying it new.


Hopefully they will update the upgrade price later today.


----------



## Nimrod7

wkundrus said:


> Thanks. That sounds serious. I want to investigate. Do you have example material ? A Cubase song that shows that behaviour ?


Wolfgang thank you so much for being here! 

I am not sure if you're aware also for the extended save times in Logic (≈1 min) when multiple OPUS instances are used. It freezes the DAW for up to a minute for every save. 

If you need any help debugging I will be very happy to help.


----------



## Geomir

Markrs said:


> Hopefully they will update the upgrade price later today.


If only sites like JRRShop could sell the upgrade, it would be perfect. Imagine starting from $250 and then put some coupon code and bring the final amount less than $200... (daydreaming!)


----------



## Braveheart

Geomir said:


> If only sites like JRRShop could sell the upgrade, it would be perfect. Imagine starting from $250 and then put some coupon code and bring the final amount less than $200... (daydreaming!)


Upgrading is only 3$ less, while upgrade to Spaces II is more expensive than new


----------



## Lee Blaske

Braveheart said:


> Upgrading is only 3$ less, while upgrade to Spaces II is more expensive than new


Just got the email for EastWest's big 60% off Easter sale. I bought all of the original Hollywood Orchestra Diamond libraries and literally paid thousands of dollars for them. Just checked, and my cost to upgrade is $395. The cost to buy the whole kit and caboodle new is $398. So, I'd only be saving three bucks for the thousands I invested. Amazing, considering the piles of money I've sent them over the years.

Obviously, I no longer use Hollywood Orchestra in my templates, and have replaced it with much better libraries. Still, if the upgrade would have been, say, $199, I probably would have gone for it (the old stuff is still taking up space on my SSDs, just in case I need to access old sessions). 

Is anyone home at EastWest anymore? Seems to me that they're just slowly fading away.


----------



## BigMal

Just a quick shout out for EW support: I had an issue with iLok, meaning that Opus would not load. Hadn't experienced it before, and didn't know what to do (now I do: go into iLok, deactivate/re-activate your license), but support answered within an hour and solved it. My first experience with their support, and it was excellent.


----------



## BigMal

Also, I have the subscription, and these latest prices for the HOOPUS are really tempting; I'm locked into my subscription for 1 year, so hopefully it may come down even further by then perhaps, but even at these prices, and given the opportunity to fully use it with the subscription, I think it's totally worth it. The orchestration between instruments is just beautiful. I have BBCSO Pro, and while I really like that library too, it's lack of ensembles is a weakness. I don't know why they don't address this: Unify has already done it for them beautifully, so they surely can. But the ensembles in Opus orchestra is outstanding. Will definitely purchase at the end of the subscription period.

As an aside, I also think this really validates the subscription model, as a fair way of trying out developer's software before purchasing. I now have a great insight in what I want to purchase now from EW, and what I don't. I'm a new EW fan!


----------



## Braveheart

Lee Blaske said:


> Just got the email for EastWest's big 60% off Easter sale. I bought all of the original Hollywood Orchestra Diamond libraries and literally paid thousands of dollars for them. Just checked, and my cost to upgrade is $395. The cost to buy the whole kit and caboodle new is $398. So, I'd only be saving three bucks for the thousands I invested. Amazing, considering the piles of money I've sent them over the years.
> 
> Obviously, I no longer use Hollywood Orchestra in my templates, and have replaced it with much better libraries. Still, if the upgrade would have been, say, $199, I probably would have gone for it (the old stuff is still taking up space on my SSDs, just in case I need to access old sessions).
> 
> Is anyone home at EastWest anymore? Seems to me that they're just slowly fading away.


I bought the upgrade for 250$ while on a special sale. Check fo the next one.


----------



## Geomir

Braveheart said:


> I bought the upgrade for 250$ while on a special sale. Check fo the next one.


That's exactly what spoiled me. I remember that price. I was checking it every day and feeling some happiness, even if I could't afford it that period, because I was on low budget (and still I am LOL)! But after seeing that price, I can't accept anything more than that.

So many EW sales followed after that, but this amazing upgrade price never happened again so far. I am sure it can happen again in the near future, and I will be waiting, while clearing some of my SSD space.


----------



## BasariStudios

Markrs said:


> Hopefully they will update the upgrade price later today.


We are waiting for that since 2007.


----------



## chlady

Braveheart said:


> I bought the upgrade for 250$ while on a special sale. Check fo the next one.


Same here I got the upgrade when it was on sale for $250 not that long ago . They will will probably do another upgrade sale at some point .


----------



## darx

I've seen some mixed opinions on the woodwinds in OPUS. What are the problems with it (if any), and if so, are they deal-breakers? Thanks.


----------



## Petrucci

darx said:


> I've seen some mixed opinions on the woodwinds in OPUS. What are the problems with it (if any), and if so, are they deal-breakers? Thanks.


Woodwinds (legato patches) were considered the weakest point in HO, but EW recorded some more with Opus (ensembles) and some users here have learned how to overcome original woodwinds legato patches velocity crossfade bumpiness with customized expression and velocity CC curves with very good results. I haven't tested new HO myself enough due to the lack of time though I bought an upgrade.


----------



## BasariStudios

darx said:


> I've seen some mixed opinions on the woodwinds in OPUS. What are the problems with it (if any), and if so, are they deal-breakers? Thanks.


The 2-3 new thing that came i don't know. The Originql Woodwinds that came with the HO are totally useless on there own especially the Clarinets which shouldn't be nowhere near music. They have very bad Transitions and Phasing issues.


----------



## sumskilz

BasariStudios said:


> The Originql Woodwinds that came with the HO are totally useless on there own especially the Clarinets which shouldn't be nowhere near music. They have very bad Transitions and Phasing issues.


Have you heard them in Opus? They have improved the transitions.


----------



## BasariStudios

sumskilz said:


> Have you heard them in Opus? They have improved the transitions.


I have Opus now, nope, its the same exact thing.


----------



## RogiervG

BasariStudios said:


> I have Opus now, nope, its the same exact thing.


I too haven't heard a difference between the HW Diamond Play version vs Opus version when i had both installed, but Opus is easier to use than Play.


----------



## Vtech

Hello everyone,

I just got my copy of EW Opus on SSD, installed as per their guide, ran updates and everything seems to be fine but I noticed quite high load on CPU. Even one instace of orchestrator or Ensemble may peak over 90%, which causes dropping voices.
I use purge, which helps a bit, but remain puzzled how can I run couple instances at once, without overloading CPU?
Should I change buffer size in DAW?
I have built PC to host all studio software and it is based on Ryzen5 2400G quad core. I currently have 32GB RAM installed and run on Win10. My DAW is Cubase 10.5 Pro.
MOBO will allow me to upgrade both, CPU and RAM up to 128GB, but my budget doesn't.
If anyone knows the solution or such topic being discussed earlier, I'll greatly appreciate any suggentions ot link to these posts.

Since my digital piano doesn't have mod wheels, I built 3 fader midi controller - pic below and will try to incorporate with it. I programmed faders according to Spitfire settings (CC11, CC1. CC21) but may have to change that in Cubase midi settings.


BTW, this is one of my hobbies. I'm retired electronic engineer.

Thanks


----------



## EgM

Vtech said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I just got my copy of EW Opus on SSD, installed as per their guide, ran updates and everything seems to be fine but I noticed quite high load on CPU. Even one instace of orchestrator or Ensemble may peak over 90%, which causes dropping voices.
> I use purge, which helps a bit, but remain puzzled how can I run couple instances at once, without overloading CPU?
> Should I change buffer size in DAW?
> I have built PC to host all studio software and it is based on Ryzen5 2400G quad core. I currently have 32GB RAM installed and run on Win10. My DAW is Cubase 10.5 Pro.
> MOBO will allow me to upgrade both, CPU and RAM up to 128GB, but my budget doesn't.
> 
> Since my digital piano doesn't have mod wheels, I built 3 fader midi controller - pic below and will try to incorporate with it. I programmed faders according to Spitfire settings (CC11, CC1. CC21) but may have to change that in Cubase midi settings.
> If anyone knows such topic being discussed earlier, I'll greatly appreciate the link to it.
> 
> BTW, this is one of my hobbies. I'm retired electronic engineer.
> 
> Thanks



I assume you're running Opus off a SSD? Internal or external, if external make sure you're in a USB3 port


----------



## Vtech

EgM said:


> I assume you're running Opus off a SSD? Internal or external, if external make sure you're in a USB3 port


Yes, their external SSD on USB3.


----------



## EgM

Vtech said:


> Yes, their external SSD on USB3.



Also make sure it's formatted as NTFS and not exFAT, exFAT is too slow for samples


----------



## Vtech

Yes, I'm aware of difference. This SSD came from EW and I'm sure they formatted correctly. I may get another NVMe later on and move this library over, but for now I have to deal with that I have available.

Thanks


----------



## Geomir

@BasariStudios and @RogiervG

Some of the solo woodwinds ARE improved a little bit. There is less phasing and the transitions are somewhat smoother. Check Flute 1, you can hear the difference. Sadly, they are still far behind the competition (i.e. VSL, Audio Imperia, Spitfire, OT), and they are still unusable as exposed solo instruments.

As @BasariStudios mentioned in some of his posts, the clarinets are... not that good. The bass clarinet is still very bad, even in Opus Edition. Same for the oboe... They had this chance (every 10 years?) to fix them, but they didn't.

After subscribing for 1 month to CC, and after 4-5 days of non-stop downloading, I tried everything myself and I came to the conclusion that I am not upgrading before the upgrade price goes below $200. And maybe not even then. I realized that the things that I am NOT going to use from the OPUS edition are: The solo woodwinds, the solo violin, the solo cello, the harp, the melodic percussion and the orchestrator (extremely resource-heavy for my PC).

So what remains in the end? My classic EWHO Gold version, which I already own and runs fine on Play 6, where the strings and the brass are already very good, the unpitched percussion decent and the included mid mic my favorite choice anyway!


----------



## Gil

Hello,
I have 2 bugs on OPUS with preview and choirs, and would like to know if someone have the same problem. A report have been sent to EWQL support but no answers from the last 2 weeks...
- Some extreme range notes (low notes for Men and high notes for Women) are not the right ones (lower range notes play high notes and vice-versa)

View attachment HOOPUS - Choirs.mp4


- Some previews are the wrong ones: for example in EW Hollywood Brass/3 Trumpets/05 Mutes, the preview of "3TP Mute Insects" is sounding as expected but the "3TP Mute Leg Slur" and the 4 following sounds are sounding the same: a long trumpet note without a mute.

View attachment HOOPUS - Preview.mp4


Thanks for your help!
Best regards,
Gil.


----------



## Vtech

Vtech said:


> Yes, I'm aware of difference. This SSD came from EW and I'm sure they formatted correctly. I may get another NVMe later on and move this library over, but for now I have to deal with that I have available.
> 
> Thanks


I just got reply from EW, within 5 min from sending my ticket, on Sunday morning. Amazing.
Lorenz sent me a link to their PDF on methods to improve system performance. I haven't readed yet but thought to share with others, which may experience similar issues.


----------



## Gil

Gil said:


> Hello,
> I have 2 bugs on OPUS with preview and choirs, and would like to know if someone have the same problem. A report have been sent to EWQL support but no answers from the last 2 weeks...
> - Some extreme range notes (low notes for Men and high notes for Women) are not the right ones (lower range notes play high notes and vice-versa)
> 
> View attachment HOOPUS - Choirs.mp4
> 
> 
> - Some previews are the wrong ones: for example in EW Hollywood Brass/3 Trumpets/05 Mutes, the preview of "3TP Mute Insects" is sounding as expected but the "3TP Mute Leg Slur" and the 4 following sounds are sounding the same: a long trumpet note without a mute.
> 
> View attachment HOOPUS - Preview.mp4
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> Best regards,
> Gil.


Hello,
For those who have the same bugs, East West support have tested these issues on their end as well, and they've noted them, reporting them over to their development team.
Regards,
Gil.


----------



## cqd

I'm reasonably new to sibelius, and the sound sets seem to be beyond me..
Is there any opus soundset available anywhere?..
You'd nearly think developers would provide them really..


----------



## Per Boysen

Vtech said:


> I just got reply from EW, within 5 min from sending my ticket, on Sunday morning. Amazing.
> Lorenz sent me a link to their PDF on methods to improve system performance. I haven't readed yet but thought to share with others, which may experience similar issues.


Thank you for sharing that document! It made me realize that I must update my iLok#1 now to enjoy optimal performance. But I must say that I am already very happy with the OPUS performance on my 32 GB ram Windows machine. I'm using Cubase 12 with 4 instances of the VSL player and the VEPro 7 server is streaming samples from a handful SSD drives connected to different USB ports. The VEP template covers (1) Synchron Woodwinds combined with (2) OPUS brass and (3) strings and (4) percussion. I can play in real-time with Midi Mate's all 32 channels instantly driving instruments, without a glitch!  

I have also ordered a USB Wifi dongle to keep my licenses active as I will go and work offline for a period with my main studio machine.


----------



## Artur46

Hello,
I'm a new user of HOOPUS. Earlier I was using EW Symphonic Orchestra and I came across one thing that is intriguing me when switching to the new product. In Symphonic Orchestra I used 18 Violins sustain patch where MIDI note velocity was affecting expression of the strings. But here in HOOPUS, when I use one of long string patches e.g. "1st Violins Sus MAX" the MIDI Note Velocity is not affecting expression like it used to in EWSO. I think it is pretty basic feature that the new product seems like lacking of. I mean, there are CC's, but it is controlling all notes in a chord where I want some notes in a chord to be louder/quiter.

Is there an easy way to achieve the functionality of the old EWSO, that is, expression per note?


----------



## TRON 1.0

Artur46 said:


> Hello,
> I'm a new user of HOOPUS. Earlier I was using EW Symphonic Orchestra and I came across one thing that is intriguing me when switching to the new product. In Symphonic Orchestra I used 18 Violins sustain patch where MIDI note velocity was affecting expression of the strings. But here in HOOPUS, when I use one of long string patches e.g. "1st Violins Sus MAX" the MIDI Note Velocity is not affecting expression like it used to in EWSO. I think it is pretty basic feature that the new product seems like lacking of. I mean, there are CC's, but it is controlling all notes in a chord where I want some notes in a chord to be louder/quiter.
> 
> Is there an easy way to achieve the functionality of the old EWSO, that is, expression per note?


Well, technically almost all modern string libraries rely on CC1/11 together to achieve a nice crossfade between loudness/expression layers while holding the chord notes. I’d say the functionality used in EWQLSO is kinda obsolete. If you like it - fine, there’s nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Dex

Artur46 said:


> Hello,
> I'm a new user of HOOPUS. Earlier I was using EW Symphonic Orchestra and I came across one thing that is intriguing me when switching to the new product. In Symphonic Orchestra I used 18 Violins sustain patch where MIDI note velocity was affecting expression of the strings. But here in HOOPUS, when I use one of long string patches e.g. "1st Violins Sus MAX" the MIDI Note Velocity is not affecting expression like it used to in EWSO. I think it is pretty basic feature that the new product seems like lacking of. I mean, there are CC's, but it is controlling all notes in a chord where I want some notes in a chord to be louder/quiter.
> 
> Is there an easy way to achieve the functionality of the old EWSO, that is, expression per note?


You will need to use cc’s to control this now. (Mod wheel for some patches, cc11 for others.)

If you have multiple notes at the same time that you want at different volume levels then you will need to have a separate track for each note.

Easy? No.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Artur46 said:


> Hello,
> I'm a new user of HOOPUS. Earlier I was using EW Symphonic Orchestra and I came across one thing that is intriguing me when switching to the new product. In Symphonic Orchestra I used 18 Violins sustain patch where MIDI note velocity was affecting expression of the strings. But here in HOOPUS, when I use one of long string patches e.g. "1st Violins Sus MAX" the MIDI Note Velocity is not affecting expression like it used to in EWSO. I think it is pretty basic feature that the new product seems like lacking of. I mean, there are CC's, but it is controlling all notes in a chord where I want some notes in a chord to be louder/quiter.
> 
> Is there an easy way to achieve the functionality of the old EWSO, that is, expression per note?


That’s the beauty of those strings (which were previously Hollywood Strings). Once you learn how to use them, you’ll realize how they breathe realism into your pieces.


----------



## ZeroZero

Just posting a tip for new users (like me) about the Opus step sequencer. Make sure you don't confuse selecting "No preset" with "Empty preset". No preset does not work wirth the step sequencer. This mistake was a show stopper for me.


----------



## Question-Guy

Artur46 said:


> Hello,
> I'm a new user of HOOPUS. Earlier I was using EW Symphonic Orchestra and I came across one thing that is intriguing me when switching to the new product. In Symphonic Orchestra I used 18 Violins sustain patch where MIDI note velocity was affecting expression of the strings. But here in HOOPUS, when I use one of long string patches e.g. "1st Violins Sus MAX" the MIDI Note Velocity is not affecting expression like it used to in EWSO. I think it is pretty basic feature that the new product seems like lacking of. I mean, there are CC's, but it is controlling all notes in a chord where I want some notes in a chord to be louder/quiter.
> 
> Is there an easy way to achieve the functionality of the old EWSO, that is, expression per note?


CC1 Vibrato, CC11 Expression. This is common for all modern string libraries. EWSO is really old school. HOOPUS is like any other modern library. So you need to get used to the new workflow. But you will be amazed about the outcome! It will sound realistic and awesome! So there is no basic feature lacking.

Velocity makes no sense for Strings, Brass and Woodwinds, since you can change the volume while playing one note by changing the air pressure or pressure on the bow. This is not possible with Note On MIDI because it would trigger a new note. Otherwise crescendos would be impossible. One important thing about composing music is to understand each instrument of the orchestra. Their role, their range and how they work. And... always write music , as if it would be played by humans. You cannot write extremely fast notes for some instruments, while others can handle that better.

You should never write chords in one patch. There is no polyphonic legato. So you can not write two notes with legato. You have to split them up in single instances.

So Violin 1, Violin 2, Viola, Cello, Contrabass to build the chords.

If one group plays two notes at the same time, you can use the Divisi A and Divisi B patches to split them up. Each instance is on a own channel. So in the end you should write monophonic lines and change the volume with CC11 on their dedicated midi channels.
The divisi patches are no real new samples, but closer samples of the sections, so it will sound "smaller" and a chord does not get too big, because if you let Violins 1 play 2 notes at the same time, you will hear actually 32 violins (I think 1st section are 16?) your chord. And this is not realistic, because in a real orchestra, they would split up and let play 8 the first and the other 8 the other note. So to "fake" this, HOOPUS includes the Divisi samples. Other string libraries have sometimes real samples, where just half a section is playing a note.

It all can work on one track. You can assign multiple instruments with different channels. My Hollywood String Setup is 5 tracks (1st, 2nd, Violas, Cello, Bass) with the Master Keyswitch patch and their Divisi counterparts. So 15 parches all together, 3 per instrument. So I assign single lines to channel 1 and divisi parts to 2 and 3.

I hope I could help you


----------



## larry777

rlundv said:


> Moved my Opus template to VEP because of this. Win 10, Cubase 12 Pro.


Hi, is there an easy way to move the template to vep ? it looks like I have to remake the opus template from scratch ( so time consuming ).


----------



## cqd

larry777 said:


> Hi, is there an easy way to move the template to vep ? it looks like I have to remake the opus template from scratch ( so time consuming ).


Haha..no..although you can probably just reroute your daw template..and you could probably just save all your opus instances and reopen them in vepro..
I've been running opus in vepro since it came out and rarely have any issues..


----------



## Double Helix

Vtech said:


> Hello everyone,
> I just got my copy of EW Opus on SSD, installed as per their guide, ran updates and everything seems to be fine but I noticed quite high load on CPU. . .


Hi, @Vtech ~
Is EW sending an SSD now? That's great--will make for much faster loading/transfer
The reason I ask is that about a month ago, Lorenz sent me this reply when I inquired about ComposerCloud + disk:

_". . .Yes, that ComposerCloud+ drive includes all libraries. https://www.soundsonline.com/cc-plus-hd 

There is a caveat to that, however. The drive is NOT an SSD, but rather a 7200rpm HDD mainly intended for library content delivery and backup purposes. We do recommend using SSDs where possible due to their higher read speeds (and corresponding lower latency)"_

Therefore, just confirming that EW's Opus (and everything else) is now delivered on SSD--cool!


----------



## dzilizzi

Double Helix said:


> Hi, @Vtech ~
> Is EW sending an SSD now? That's great--will make for much faster loading/transfer
> The reason I ask is that about a month ago, Lorenz sent me this reply when I inquired about ComposerCloud + disk:
> 
> _". . .Yes, that ComposerCloud+ drive includes all libraries. https://www.soundsonline.com/cc-plus-hd
> 
> There is a caveat to that, however. The drive is NOT an SSD, but rather a 7200rpm HDD mainly intended for library content delivery and backup purposes. We do recommend using SSDs where possible due to their higher read speeds (and corresponding lower latency)"_
> 
> Therefore, just confirming that EW's Opus (and everything else) is now delivered on SSD--cool!


I really doubt it is on SSD. When I got the Diamond version of Hollywood Orchestra, it was on a very thin HDD. Looked like an SSD, but wasn't.


----------



## JimDiGritz

Hmm, maybe I'm missing something (and have skimmed this thread so apologies if it's been raised) but there are some MASSIVE limitations with HOOPUS Orchestrator that I'm shocked aren't implemented!!!*

1. They have intentionally limited/hobbled the Preset Slots so that you can only choose a limited selection of instruments and articulations... eg in Brass you can't use the Cimbasso, and there's no way to have say four Trumpets play four different patterns... They have limited Trumpets to Brass>Slot 2.

2. No MIDI learn, no custom keyswitching. So you want to build up a piece with the Orchestrator and want to bring the Double Bass ostinato in on Bar 2.. Well tough. You have to add a completely new instance of HOOPUS with the Basses muted. They do let you Mute entire sections (eg Strings or Percussion) but there's no way to assign controls to Mute on individual instruments... An example of this done RIGHT is Sonokinetic's Ostinato series. You can mute any instrument with a keyswitch as well as switch patterns etc..

I've no idea why Sonuscore/EW made these decisions, if their intention was to make the Orchestrator simply a novelty to showcase some of the instruments, well then mission accomplished...

*Please feel free to correct me if I've overlooked something!!!


----------



## JimDiGritz

JimDiGritz said:


> Hmm, maybe I'm missing something (and have skimmed this thread so apologies if it's been raised) but there are some MASSIVE limitations with HOOPUS Orchestrator that I'm shocked aren't implemented!!!*
> 
> 1. They have intentionally limited/hobbled the Preset Slots so that you can only choose a limited selection of instruments and articulations... eg in Brass you can't use the Cimbasso, and there's no way to have say four Trumpets play four different patterns... They have limited Trumpets to Brass>Slot 2.
> 
> 2. No MIDI learn, no custom keyswitching. So you want to build up a piece with the Orchestrator and want to bring the Double Bass ostinato in on Bar 2.. Well tough. You have to add a completely new instance of HOOPUS with the Basses muted. They do let you Mute entire sections (eg Strings or Percussion) but there's no way to assign controls to Mute on individual instruments... An example of this done RIGHT is Sonokinetic's Ostinato series. You can mute any instrument with a keyswitch as well as switch patterns etc..
> 
> I've no idea why Sonuscore/EW made these decisions, if their intention was to make the Orchestrator simply a novelty to showcase some of the instruments, well then mission accomplished...
> 
> *Please feel free to correct me if I've overlooked something!!!


So after an afternoon experimenting with the orchestrator I'm firmly in the "it's a novelty, not an actually useful tool" camp - the keyswitching is even worse than I thought..

The Mute Keyswitches for the Orchestrator sections are toggles, *not velocity sensitive*.. so to Mute/UnMute you have to go back to the beginning of all of the MIDI with keyswitches and play it twice to get the Mute/UnMute to toggle correctly....

Again, how hard would it have been to make the keyswitches triggered by Velocity eg ON(68-127) OFF (0-67)....


----------



## ripp

JimDiGritz said:


> So after an afternoon experimenting with the orchestrator I'm firmly in the "it's a novelty, not an actually useful tool" camp - the keyswitching is even worse than I thought..
> 
> The Mute Keyswitches for the Orchestrator sections are toggles, *not velocity sensitive*.. so to Mute/UnMute you have to go back to the beginning of all of the MIDI with keyswitches and play it twice to get the Mute/UnMute to toggle correctly....
> 
> Again, how hard would it have been to make the keyswitches triggered by Velocity eg ON(68-127) OFF (0-67)....


Totally agree, but on the other hand they send updates from time to time. Hopefully we may see important improvements in the future.


----------



## ZeroZero

JimDiGritz said:


> So after an afternoon experimenting with the orchestrator I'm firmly in the "it's a novelty, not an actually useful tool" camp - the keyswitching is even worse than I thought..
> 
> The Mute Keyswitches for the Orchestrator sections are toggles, *not velocity sensitive*.. so to Mute/UnMute you have to go back to the beginning of all of the MIDI with keyswitches and play it twice to get the Mute/UnMute to toggle correctly....
> 
> Again, how hard would it have been to make the keyswitches triggered by Velocity eg ON(68-127) OFF (0-67)....


I actually like it as a learning tool, via exporting the MIDI files to a DAW. You can then see the notation and study the scores. I agree there are massive amounts of other things it can do (such as show an editable score in the product) but for me its an exciting product


----------



## JimDiGritz

ZeroZero said:


> I actually like it as a learning tool, via exporting the MIDI files to a DAW. You can then see the notation and study the scores. I agree there are massive amounts of other things it can do (such as show an editable score in the product) but for me its an exciting product


I hear you, however my expectation was that I could 'audition' lots of arrangement variations (eg what would a 16th Ostinato in the Double Bass followed by a Cimbasso picking up with accented 16ths then expanding to a bar of Trumpets playing 8th Arcs sound like?? - how about I switch the first few bars of 16th out with 1/4 notes - with Staccato Strings coming in halfway through the measure etc)

Now I CAN do all this manually (or export MIDI each time from OPUS) however it was the fast iterating of ideas that I was hoping for from the Orchestrator - it's sooo close yet without proper keyswitch controls and unnecessarily rigid instrumentation choices it really feels like the modern equivalent of Demo Song mode on the old 90's Casio keyboards....


----------



## Hendrixon

JimDiGritz said:


> 1. They have intentionally limited/hobbled the Preset Slots so that you can only choose a limited selection of instruments and articulations... eg in Brass you can't use the Cimbasso, and there's no way to have say four Trumpets play four different patterns... They have limited Trumpets to Brass>Slot 2.


You're right, no Cimbasso, how did I miss that!
The orchestrator is great but needs more work. seems like it was built around three notes playing with _*some*_ four notes options, so it has the notion of "upper middle" and "lower middle" (with four notes playing) but only when attached to Lowest or Top

Why no Upper Middle and Lower Middle options?
And while at it, build the options to have 5 notes playing (i.e. 2 left hand 3 right hand).


----------



## JimDiGritz

Hendrixon said:


> You're right, no Cimbasso, how did I miss that!
> The orchestrator is great but needs more work. seems like it was built around three notes playing with _*some*_ four notes options, so it has the notion of "upper middle" and "lower middle" (with four notes playing) but only when attached to Lowest or Top
> 
> Why no Upper Middle and Lower Middle options?
> And while at it, build the options to have 5 notes playing (i.e. 2 left hand 3 right hand).


What confuses me is that in Sonuscore's The Orchestra (even Essential) you can put any instrument in any slot, if you want 4 cellos playing pizzicato you can! 


This feels like an odd step back in the new OPUS engine..


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

holywilly said:


> Unsubscribe CC after trying OPUS. Never get orchestrator to work, done uninstall and reinstalling, re-+





RogiervG said:


> the important question is, are you willing to pay monthly/yearly for using the products? or are you wanting a one time investment, and use "forever" without ever needing to pay a dime for it anymore. Not trying to drive you away from subscriptions.. but a honest point for you to figure out. It's a calculation you need to do.
> For me, the one time investment is cheaper than monthly paying year in and year out for several years. (and i do not need everyting from their catalog)
> For you it might be different.
> 
> Ps (besides the subscription pro/con's to think about):
> Also note that any commercial usage is forbidden with the EDU license. So once you finished your study (and start to work), your edu license becomes invalid, you need to convert to a commercial license.


my answer to this is so:
until CC gives me a client that pays every month I invested and still gives me a profit, I am ok with the subscription, because soon It helps getting out of it. But as end goal you are absolutely right, ownership is everything. (((STOP GREAT RESET!!!! ))) Now, if I buy an expensive library now i will buy VSL, or something that is nightmare free. EW is TOO. obscure when troubleshooting. Kontakt has problems, but i google easily and find a solution, like that annoying batch resave thing.

I tip I would give: do time machine backup also of the CC files, because the way the directory works for the orchestral instruments is not that clear to me. I have a hard time making the app locate what IS ALREADY there in front of my eyes. But thx too another bug in orchestrator, the app does not connect to the string samples for some reason, and I messed things trying to solve the issue. I dont have backup because I thought i can just download again... my mistake: the backup also keep PATHS AND NAMES correctly. Aha!


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

larry777 said:


> In the manual page 143 it looks like for certain articulations CC1 is for vibrato and CC11 becomes sort of CC1 in that case, a little confusing depending on the patch.


VERY confusing. Imagine you modulating from c# minor to f major and have to stop to check this....


----------



## larry777

cqd said:


> Haha..no..although you can probably just reroute your daw template..and you could probably just save all your opus instances and reopen them in vepro..
> I've been running opus in vepro since it came out and rarely have any issues..


Yeah, thanks for the tip, opus and vepro is a really nice combination indeed.


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

ThomasS said:


> The waiting times for Cubase 11 to deal with a large set of Opus instruments is ridiculous. I made a template of everything in Opus - that is all the KS instruments, with all the keyswitches enabled and assigned, so that at my fingertips I have every single patch and articulation available (in 63 instrument tracks).
> 
> The good news is that the whole template fully purged but all enabled only needs a little less than 20gb of ram which is fine for my 64gb. But the template takes forever to load and even longer to save, so it is unworkable. The first thing you have to do is to turn off auto-save in Cubase because when that hits your project the wait time is several cups of coffee or a small nap.
> 
> With possible crashes and freezes, auto-save, or periodic manual saves is essential, so that makes large Opus sessions and Cubase basically incompatible. Part of this is Cubase’s fault because it should have auto-save as a background process and not hijack your work with the dreaded spinning wheel. Even if you have only made changes to midi data, the save or auto-save function wants to re-save the entire set of Opus instruments.
> 
> I just tried a work-around that works, but a little bit of messing around. You have to SEPARATE the vst hosting of the Opus library and the midi data with two programs connected by loopback-midi. I first tried loading the 63 track template into Cubase, turned off auto save, and assigned each instrument to loopback-midi from 1 to 63. I then loaded the same template (created by a blank midi file from Cubase) with the same track names and loopback-midi channels into both Dorico and Sibelius and in both cases Cubase worked perfectly as a vst player for either notation program. All you have to do is disable loopback-midi in Dorico or Sibelius as inputs and make sure to keep all tracks in Cubase enabled for sound input. Now you can enter all the music you want and auto save your midi data in seconds and never lose anything. If you don’t like or have Dorico or Sibelius, any other daw would also work.
> 
> It also works the other way around. if you like working in Cubase (like I do) just make a template of the 63 Opus instruments as midi tracks with the loopback-midi channels (and disabled as midi inputs) in Cubase and use another program to host the Opus vst’s. This basically works but I am still experimenting with the most efficient host (Carla, Cantabile, another daw, ableton? etc) to see what works with Cubase the easiest.


wow it does not has auto save?! I could not believe it or live with it. I can´t even use the orchestrator as I do, because it does not save my channel settings. OMg


----------



## MusiquedeReve

I am cross-posting a question I had in a dedicated thread about legato (specifically in HOOPUS) as everyone in this thread is very knowledgeable about HOOPUS:

According to the HOOPUS manual - legato is triggered when there is "no significant time gap" between the start of one note and the end of another - does that mean all notes can be strictly within the grid lines or do I still need to extend the end of one note to overlap with the next note?

Thank you


----------



## jamieboo

MorphineNoir said:


> I am cross-posting a question I had in a dedicated thread about legato (specifically in HOOPUS) as everyone in this thread is very knowledgeable about HOOPUS:
> 
> According to the HOOPUS manual - legato is triggered when there is "no significant time gap" between the start of one note and the end of another - does that mean all notes can be strictly within the grid lines or do I still need to extend the end of one note to overlap with the next note?
> 
> Thank you


As far as I know Hollywood Orchestra has never required actual overlap to trigger legato, but just no gap between notes.
I'm a little baffled by OPUS legato though, apparently some patches also require CC14 to determine legato transition speed?


----------



## MusiquedeReve

jamieboo said:


> As far as I know Hollywood Orchestra has never required actual overlap to trigger legato, but just no gap between notes.
> I'm a little baffled by OPUS legato though, apparently some patches also require CC14 to determine legato transition speed?


That leads me to my follow-up question:

Has EW or anyone else released a sort of cheat sheet for what each MIDI CC assignment is in each patch?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

MorphineNoir said:


> That leads me to my follow-up question:
> 
> Has EW or anyone else released a sort of cheat sheet for what each MIDI CC assignment is in each patch?


It’s all in the manual.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

Jeremy Spencer said:


> It’s all in the manual.



I was just looking at the manual - I did not see a master list -- just mentions of the various CC assignments notated here and there -- I will look again

Unless, you meant that I all the assignments are mentioned throughout the manual - that is not what I was looking for though - I was looking for a master list that I could have at the ready without searching in the manual - I guess, if there is no master list, I will have to create one


----------



## EgM

jamieboo said:


> As far as I know Hollywood Orchestra has never required actual overlap to trigger legato, but just no gap between notes.
> I'm a little baffled by OPUS legato though, apparently some patches also require CC14 to determine legato transition speed?


CC14 is for the fake legato transition speed (Scripted). The real recorded legato speeds are all determined by velocity


----------



## MusiquedeReve

EgM said:


> CC14 is for the fake legato transition speed (Scripted). The real recorded legato speeds are all determined by velocity


Are you sure this is the case for the strings? I see it in the manual for brass but not mentioned for strings


----------



## jamieboo

MorphineNoir said:


> That leads me to my follow-up question:
> 
> Has EW or anyone else released a sort of cheat sheet for what each MIDI CC assignment is in each patch?


There was a nice little document floating around that did exactly that for the PLAY version of HO, but nothing yet for OPUS.
Putting aside the fact that you can change much of the CC routing in OPUS, I think the defaults are pretty much the same as in PLAY - apart from this weird CC14 thing! It's not even mentioned in the manual, just in certain descriptions in the OPUS browser. Grrrr.


----------



## jamieboo

EgM said:


> CC14 is for the fake legato transition speed (Scripted). The real recorded legato speeds are all determined by velocity


Really? I thought it applied to certain true legato patches too.


----------



## AndyP

jamieboo said:


> There was a nice little document floating around that did exactly that for the PLAY version of HO, but nothing yet for OPUS.
> Putting aside the fact that you can change much of the CC routing in OPUS, I think the defaults are pretty much the same as in PLAY - apart from this weird CC14 thing! It's not even mentioned in the manual, just in certain descriptions in the OPUS browser. Grrrr.


Maybe this?

East West Hollywood Orchestra


----------



## jamieboo

EgM said:


> CC14 is for the fake legato transition speed (Scripted). The real recorded legato speeds are all determined by velocity


I just had a quick look in OPUS and found an example in strings...

"1st Violins Leg BC + Slur + Port MAX
...CC14 and Note Velocity are used to control the active legato layer - between Note Velocities 1-50 (regardless of the CC14 value), legato portamento will play; between Note Velocities 51-127, CC14 values between 0-63 will activate legato slur and values between 64-127 will activate legato bow change."

None of that is in the manual (as far as I can tell).


----------



## jamieboo

AndyP said:


> Maybe this?
> 
> East West Hollywood Orchestra


Ah! Thanks for this!


----------



## jamieboo

AndyP said:


> Maybe this?
> 
> East West Hollywood Orchestra


The more extensive CC info in your cheat sheet is great!

I guess the old one I was recalling from PLAY was this...


----------



## MusiquedeReve

AndyP said:


> Maybe this?
> 
> East West Hollywood Orchestra





jamieboo said:


> I guess the one I was recalling from PLAY was this...




Oh, that's some news I can use


----------



## MusiquedeReve

I am trying to hear the difference in the HOOPUS 1st Violins patch Legato Slur between using a velocity of 1 versus 127

These sound exactly the same to me - what say you? The HOOPUS manual says velocity controls the speed of the legato transition but, I am not hearing it - am I missing something?

Here is the MIDI:






Here is the sound:


----------



## wave-arch

hauspe said:


> Big RAM issue of OPUS: I tried to load the following instruments into Opus (all key switches) 1.VL, 2.VL, Viola, Celli, Bassi. OPUS and the Windows task manager shows me 16GB of RAM used - that is massive! Playing a few samples result in crackles, freezes and noises, also there are missing samples. "Play" needs only 3GB of RAM instead....no issues so far as usual.


Did you manage to fix this? I just bought it with same results.


----------



## JimDiGritz

MorphineNoir said:


> I am trying to hear the difference in the HOOPUS 1st Violins patch Legato Slur between using a velocity of 1 versus 127
> 
> These sound exactly the same to me - what say you? The HOOPUS manual says velocity controls the speed of the legato transition but, I am not hearing it - am I missing something?
> 
> Here is the MIDI:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the sound:



Maybe it's just visual but the second phrase seems to have very marginally faster transitions but frankly even if they are faster the difference is tiny... very odd!


----------



## MusiquedeReve

JimDiGritz said:


> Maybe it's just visual but the second phrase seems to have very marginally faster transitions but frankly even if they are faster the difference is tiny... very odd!


Maybe my ears are not those of a professional but I really do not hear much of a difference between slur and port


----------



## JimDiGritz

wave-arch said:


> Did you manage to fix this? I just bought it with same results.


FWIW in Reaper I'm seeing the following (on a 6+ year old i5 PC)






Playing all octaves,

OPUS is reporting 8.2Gb RAM used and 82% CPU! - however no dropouts or issues playing... so perhaps that's just a single core spiking. ***UPDATE, looks like I was just lucky with the number of notes/voices in the above test - it spikes to 100% and I get crackle dropout if I play say 7 notes at once****

Reaper reports 14% CPU and 15Gb RAM used out of 32. Given that I'm getting no crackles or issues I'm minded to believe that Reaper is reporting the multi core usage...

As unscientific as it is flipping open Task Manager (whilst playing a chord) is reporting that Reaper is using 20% CPU..


----------



## EanS

MorphineNoir said:


> Maybe my ears are not those of a professional but I really do not hear much of a difference between slur and port


can you please try the same, but overlapping the notes? Also try a 3rd instance from low to high (2 to 127) vs high to low velocities. I'm not claiming you'll see a difference, I'm just curious and since you have all loaded already.


(side note: On Settings in OPUS, you can disable the automatic Reverb loading, which saves you ram when loading)


----------



## MusiquedeReve

EanS said:


> can you please try the same, but overlapping the notes? Also try a 3rd instance from low to high (2 to 127) vs high to low velocities. I'm not claiming you'll see a difference, I'm just curious and since you have all loaded already.
> 
> 
> (side note: On Settings in OPUS, you can disable the automatic Reverb loading, which saves you ram when loading)


The MIDI was low velocity for the first section then high the second -- did you mean try high at first then low for the second bar?


----------



## EanS

JimDiGritz said:


> FWIW in Reaper I'm seeing the following (on a 6+ year old i5 PC)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Playing all octaves,
> 
> OPUS is reporting 8.2Gb RAM used and 82% CPU! - however no dropouts or issues playing... so perhaps that's just a single core spiking.
> 
> Reaper reports 14% CPU and 15Gb RAM used out of 32. Given that I'm getting no crackles or issues I'm minded to believe that Reaper is reporting the multi core usage...
> 
> As unscientific as it is flipping open Task Manager (whilst playing a chord) is reporting that Reaper is using 20% CPU..


I've noticed out that in VSL (BBO Altair for instance) as well as OPUS, when you play chords and repeat them you can see how the CPU builds up to a spike.

Now, if you do the same playing notes (since one note = X voices, i.e. 6 violins) in a DAW as an orchestration, that event won't happen so often.

What I'm trying to say that OPUS performs better under a composing workflow than a playing workflow.

So instead of 1 instance of 4 patches multiplied by a chord (3 notes), try

One instance per track and notes per track (not chords, even if it's a poly patch) and orchestrate exploding the chord to whatever pitches / instruments you intend to. Less than a triad, double a 3rd or 5th or 8va, etc... 

If we look at the patch, you are playing Tutti patch, all instruments doing the same notes. And just like Altair that is a Tutti, when you start stabbing chords it builds up CPU.

Hope I can clarify well, unfortunately OPUS isn't made for busking playing a midi controller. Aaron Venture libraries are focusing on that exactly, they are low on size and CPU and agile.

I do recommend either start recording in an orchestration mindset or you can download and load some known tunes from midi files and see how they behave during a full performance.

See how CPU spikes while all instruments are performing during 2-3 minutes.


----------



## EanS

MorphineNoir said:


> The MIDI was low velocity for the first section then high the second -- did you mean try high at first then low for the second bar?


As it's shown in the picture:

You did one bar x 4 notes with low velocity (2) + one bar x 4 notes with high velocity (127)

Idea is one bar
1 note (2), 1 note (127), 1 note (2), 1 note (127)

And a second bar
1 note (127), 1 note (2), 1 note (127), 1 note (2)

Also same examples you did and the above but with overlapping notes.

Just out of curiosity of course, I think legato patches aren't supposed to have such inconsistency in
velocities so also try not to use such a drastic difference in dynamics. I've also seen that some legato patches need an even velocity and Expression (CC11) makes the difference.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

EanS said:


> As it's shown in the picture:
> 
> You did one bar x 4 notes with low velocity (2) + one bar x 4 notes with high velocity (127)
> 
> Idea is one bar
> 1 note (2), 1 note (127), 1 note (2), 1 note (127)
> 
> And a second bar
> 1 note (127), 1 note (2), 1 note (127), 1 note (2)
> 
> Also same examples you did and the above but with overlapping notes.
> 
> Just out of curiosity of course, I think legato patches aren't supposed to have such inconsistency in
> velocities so also try not to use such a drastic difference in dynamics. I've also seen that some legato patches need an even velocity and Expression (CC11) makes the difference.


Will give it a shot

The only reason I had the vastly different velocities on each bar was to question whether I was the only one not hearing the difference between them


----------



## hauspe

wave-arch said:


> Did you manage to fix this? I just bought it with same results.


Nope, still unusable. Heavy CPU spikes, loading and saving time is horrendous. EDIT: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X, 96GB RAM, Cubase 12 (11 no difference), ASIO Guard enabled/disabled no difference.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

EanS said:


> As it's shown in the picture:
> 
> You did one bar x 4 notes with low velocity (2) + one bar x 4 notes with high velocity (127)
> 
> Idea is one bar
> 1 note (2), 1 note (127), 1 note (2), 1 note (127)
> 
> And a second bar
> 1 note (127), 1 note (2), 1 note (127), 1 note (2)
> 
> Also same examples you did and the above but with overlapping notes.
> 
> Just out of curiosity of course, I think legato patches aren't supposed to have such inconsistency in
> velocities so also try not to use such a drastic difference in dynamics. I've also seen that some legato patches need an even velocity and Expression (CC11) makes the difference.


Here you go (screenshot of MIDI followed by sound):

*A*​










*B*​*



*
*

*


*C*​*



*
*



*
*D*​*



*
*



*
*E*​*



*


----------



## EgM

hauspe said:


> Big RAM issue of OPUS: I tried to load the following instruments into Opus (all key switches) 1.VL, 2.VL, Viola, Celli, Bassi. OPUS and the Windows task manager shows me 16GB of RAM used - that is massive! Playing a few samples result in crackles, freezes and noises, also there are missing samples. "Play" needs only 3GB of RAM instead....no issues so far as usual.





> Nope, still unusable. Heavy CPU spikes, loading and saving time is horrendous. EDIT: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X, 96GB RAM, Cubase 12 (11 no difference), ASIO Guard enabled/disabled no difference.



You either have wrong settings in your preferences or hardware not up to the task, I tried the same thing and got these RAM results:

Conf:
—Prefs -> Never Preload
—Prefs -> Other -> Load with FX off (Please use sends...)
—Prefs -> Audio Drives: Choose the correct option for your storage Sata SSD or SSD PCIe (NVMe)
—Loading just one Mic (You can load different mics adapting to your song)

Task manager RAM readings (Studio One 5.5.2 Win10Pro):

0,999Mb Empty template, bus fx are loaded such as reverb, limiter and monitoring fx
1,021Mb Empty Opus instance
2,533Mb Full V1 KS Master enabled
3,732Mb Full V2 KS Master enabled
4,481Mb Full VA KS Master enabled
5,285Mb Full VC KS Master enabled
5,371Mb Full DB KS Master enabled

I don't know if you know this, but even with "Never preload" in preferences off, you still have to hit the red led next to "Purge" on the top right after you've clicked on every keyswitch articulation.






If you did all this, your full strings with full Keyswitches enabled should not take more than 5400 Megabytes of RAM—This has been working flawlessly for me since the early releases of Opus.










—


----------



## EanS

MorphineNoir said:


> Here you go (screenshot of MIDI followed by sound):
> 
> ​


Awesome, thanks!! We know it's nitpicking and has no musical purpose since in the end audience, whom we are supposed to share the music with, won't notice any of these nuances. Even worse, a big part of the population has already in their brains that sound or music comes from an 18x3.5 mm mobile speaker.

Having said that, did you notice a difference when they notes are overlapped?


----------



## MusiquedeReve

EanS said:


> Awesome, thanks!! We know it's nitpicking and has no musical purpose since in the end audience, whom we are supposed to share the music with, won't notice any of these nuances. Even worse, a big part of the population has already in their brains that sound or music comes from an 18x3.5 mm mobile speaker.
> 
> Having said that, did you notice a difference when they notes are overlapped?


Not anything I noticed - did you?


----------



## EanS

MorphineNoir said:


> Not anything I noticed - did you?


I think I find it more pronounced when overlapping, a little bit more slurred. Listening on reference monitors of course


----------



## Jdiggity1

MorphineNoir said:


> Not anything I noticed - did you?


The legato speed difference is more noticeable on larger intervals, and faster passages. Try playing around with intervals above a third. It's slightly more apparent that high velocities are cutting into the transition, but still not by a whole lot.
Its use-case is for when your passage is playing quickly, the higher velocity values can help each note be articulated a little quicker.
Playing a moderate speed scale at high velocity does sound different to the same scale at low velocity. To me, at least.


----------



## EanS

Jdiggity1 said:


> The legato speed difference is more noticeable on larger intervals, and faster passages. Try playing around with intervals above a third. It's slightly more apparent that high velocities are cutting into the transition, but still not by a whole lot.
> Its use-case is for when your passage is playing quickly, the higher velocity values can help each note be articulated a little quicker.
> Playing a moderate speed scale at high velocity does sound different to the same scale at low velocity. To me, at least.


Oh yeah, I forgot that detail too. The interval. I had a huge issue with Port on an 8dio Library, got so obsessed, trying, testing just like here. 

Then I found out when replaced my midi controller, it was the controller 😂


----------



## MusiquedeReve

Jdiggity1 said:


> The legato speed difference is more noticeable on larger intervals, and faster passages. Try playing around with intervals above a third. It's slightly more apparent that high velocities are cutting into the transition, but still not by a whole lot.
> Its use-case is for when your passage is playing quickly, the higher velocity values can help each note be articulated a little quicker.
> Playing a moderate speed scale at high velocity does sound different to the same scale at low velocity. To me, at least.





EanS said:


> Oh yeah, I forgot that detail too. The interval. I had a huge issue with Port on an 8dio Library, got so obsessed, trying, testing just like here.
> 
> Then I found out when replaced my midi controller, it was the controller 😂



Maybe, since the intervals are small, I should use sustain


----------



## hauspe

EgM said:


> You either have wrong settings in your preferences or hardware not up to the task, I tried the same thing and got these RAM results:
> 
> Conf:
> —Prefs -> Never Preload
> —Prefs -> Other -> Load with FX off (Please use sends...)
> —Prefs -> Audio Drives: Choose the correct option for your storage Sata SSD or SSD PCIe (NVMe)
> —Loading just one Mic (You can load different mics adapting to your song)
> 
> Task manager RAM readings (Studio One 5.5.2 Win10Pro):
> 
> 0,999Mb Empty template, bus fx are loaded such as reverb, limiter and monitoring fx
> 1,021Mb Empty Opus instance
> 2,533Mb Full V1 KS Master enabled
> 3,732Mb Full V2 KS Master enabled
> 4,481Mb Full VA KS Master enabled
> 5,285Mb Full VC KS Master enabled
> 5,371Mb Full DB KS Master enabled
> 
> I don't know if you know this, but even with "Never preload" in preferences off, you still have to hit the red led next to "Purge" on the top right after you've clicked on every keyswitch articulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you did all this, your full strings with full Keyswitches enabled should not take more than 5400 Megabytes of RAM—This has been working flawlessly for me since the early releases of Opus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> —


In terms of RAM "never preload" and "FX effects off" OPUS saves a lot of memory, anyway saving time is still a no go (10 seconds only strings loaded on SSD) and Cubase still shows 100% processing load in the real-time path of the audio engine when playing more than 7 voices simultaneously (one single instrument). Also saving or deactivating time is way too long, Cubase needs 10 seconds to save a template, same deactivating OPUS. VSL Vienna Ensemble saves in 0.2 seconds...KONTAKT all SSS Instruments loaded in one session (1.7GB, one mic) 0.2s...Also the GUI never keeps the individual size, whenever I reload OPUS it is on default. Probably my bad. NTL I use OPUS only for single instances, no issues at all.


----------



## ZeroZero

EgM said:


> I don't know if you know this, but even with "Never preload" in preferences off, you still have to hit the red led next to "Purge" on the top right after you've clicked on every keyswitch articulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> —






Yoda moment! Why so?


----------



## MusiquedeReve

hauspe said:


> In terms of RAM "never preload" and "FX effects off" OPUS saves a lot of memory



I have switched my preferences to this but, Opus still loads every instrument with the "stereo doubling" switched on - is that normal?


----------



## Jdiggity1

MorphineNoir said:


> I have switched my preferences to this but, Opus still loads every instrument with the "stereo doubling" switched on - is that normal?


That's normal, but it won't use CPU or "process" anything until it's turned up, thankfully.


----------



## EwigWanderer

delete


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

I am pausing with this orchestra and all the zig zags of EW , and going to Nucleus . Audio Imperia looks to "get it"

Also bought Hyperion strings. My last video features it.

The deal breaker is the Orchestrator again telling me the strings and brass are not installed, total uneeded bs . SO i needed a better "sketching" tool

You will love the mixing ability of the Hyperion ensembles . I hope they do some woodwinds so.

Meanwhile, Nucleus has a woodwind ensemble for a fair price


----------



## Fleer

Sad to read that. From my perspective, the Orchestrator is definitely the crown jewel of Hoopus, boosting creativity. Those EW vids are very helpful in fact. And EW support, if needed, answered to every little query I had.


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

Fleer said:


> Sad to read that. From my perspective, the Orchestrator is definitely the crown jewel of Hoopus, boosting creativity. Those EW vids are very helpful in fact. And EW support, if needed, answered to every little query I had.


but with bugs from month to month the best becomes easily the worst, if you can´t use it normally

the new bug with relase samples are the worst problem, and the lack of automation in Orchestrator, making it too rigid for professional arrengement. For 1 minutes trailler in block harmony works very well, or you have to create a template, stacking many instances

After they correct these things, i download the update and use it immediatelly , i own the thing anyway.

ONe cannot load a patch feeling like "let´s see which is the problem today". 

Always when i tried to use for example the Project Sam orq., or Kontakt Factory Library it WORKED, i start using it; this feel it is missing in EW still, principally considering they are in "premium" category.

I would like to ask TV composers if they use EW everyday, or hired someone to setup a template for them. This is interesting to know!


----------



## Fleer

I believe those templates are quite worthwhile. We should have a templates thread IMO.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Fleer said:


> And EW support, if needed, answered to every little query I had.


They always do.....but they simply don't care about fixing many known issues, they've even admitted it. Not sure why, but since OPUS was released they've come the Walmart of sample libraries.


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

Someone of the support reached to me personally. SO i wrote my "report" lol Hope it works. I really wish they "complete" these products. YOu see here how great EW is when one has patience, principally with perc. (their worst, and the worst mapping choices in my opnion)  Meanwhile I am having fun with HYperion and Nucleus  I want (at least ending this summer "holydays" ) to focus on contrapunctus inversus alla decima con expressione, not custumer support and "tricks" to solve basic things lol

my last videos feature Hyperion strings btw, and the awesome mystic organ (Proj. Sam)


----------



## Robert_G

Jeremy Spencer said:


> They always do.....but they simply don't care about fixing many known issues, they've even admitted it. Not sure why, *but since OPUS was released they've come the Walmart of sample libraries.*


*Since???*
Someone needs to go back and play EW Pianos.
I noticed the price is down to $399 (on sale for $159).
It was only a year ago or so that they were over $900 U.S.
Could you imagine paying that kind of money, spend all day downloading to find out you infested your SSD with 282GB of dog shite?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Robert_G said:


> *Since???*
> Someone needs to go back and play EW Pianos.
> I noticed the price is down to $399 (on sale for $159).
> It was only a year ago or so that they were over $900 U.S.
> Could you imagine paying that kind of money, spend all day downloading to find out you infested your SSD with 282GB of dog shite?


Odd, I don’t think I’ve ever seen them at $900.


----------



## Robert_G

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Odd, I don’t think I’ve ever seen them at $900.


Well....the 'full' price was over $900, but we all know that EW has never sold a thing at full price. Even at times when they weren't 'technically' having a sale, it would still be a couple hundred dollars off. But the advertised 'full' price was definitely over $900. I believe it was called Platinum Pianos back then with the full mics.


----------



## dzilizzi

Robert_G said:


> Well....the 'full' price was over $900, but we all know that EW has never sold a thing at full price. Even at times when they weren't 'technically' having a sale, it would still be a couple hundred dollars off. But the advertised 'full' price was definitely over $900. I believe it was called Platinum Pianos back then with the full mics.


Full price was 20 years ago when these things were new.


----------



## Robert_G

dzilizzi said:


> Full price was 20 years ago when these things were new.


How much the full price 20 years ago? Interested


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

dzilizzi said:


> Full price was 20 years ago when these things were new.


I recall the pianos being quite pricey when they first started coming out (circa 2009-ish?), but I’ve never seen them for $900….like ever.


----------



## EanS

Robert_G said:


> How much the full price 20 years ago? Interested


From QL himself (US$3.000)






Spitfire and VSL will be the dominant developers for the next decade


I am NOT saying that I am right about all of this but I would like to provide some info and my perspective: 1. The stuff coming out of Berlin is very good and when their player improves… I use more of their stuff than Spitfire. 2. I can’t say I’m a huge fan of the throw millions of dollars and...




vi-control.net


----------



## Fleer

But that was for their EWQL Symphonic Orchestra. Top of the line, back in the day. People just couldn’t imagine playing an entire orchestra from a computer. And some parts of EWQLSO are still pretty, pretty good now.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I recall the pianos being quite pricey when they first started coming out (circa 2009-ish?), but I’ve never seen them for $900….like ever.


That could be true. I just know the prices for a lot of these things were still pretty crazy in 2006 when I really got into computer audio.


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

IF THE ORCHESTRATOR DOES NOT RECOGNIZE SOME (INSTALLED)LIBRARY (arrgh)

delete the dowload.txt file of the library folder

go to Opus> gear icon> install library

I did this and worked.

The updated orchestrator got confused by some file there...

THanks to Michael from EW! solved

Havin fun again, now i totally reconsider my relation to 8dio 70% sales again haha

but at least for the samples that have release issues, the turn off is huge by EW



*I urge EW to make the app give the notification for we can troubleshoot. Idk how hard it is, but it looks that we can program a message for this error


----------



## EgM

Emanuel Fróes said:


> IF THE ORCHESTRATOR DOES NOT RECOGNIZE SOME (INSTALLED)LIBRARY (arrgh)
> 
> delete the dowload.txt file of the library folder
> 
> go to Opus> gear icon> install library
> 
> I did this and worked.
> 
> The updated orchestrator got confused by some file there...
> 
> THanks to Michael from EW! solved
> 
> Havin fun again, now i totally reconsider my relation to 8dio 70% sales again haha
> 
> but at least for the samples that have release issues, the turn off is huge by EW
> 
> 
> 
> *I urge EW to make the app give the notification for we can troubleshoot. Idk how hard it is, but it looks that we can program a message for this error


Glad you managed to fix it, enjoy!


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

EgM said:


> Glad you managed to fix it, enjoy!


the result was already some 10 minutes music, in two moviments  so it worked good

called Prayer and Victory (Two Scenes from Elden Ring) will feature in my channel in some of these saturdays.


----------



## NoamL

Does the ComposerCloud+ plan* include access to OPUS with all of the mics? in other words is it analogous to the old "Hollywood Diamond"?

*which appears to be the only ComposerCloud plan available on the website anymore


----------



## Markrs

NoamL said:


> Does the ComposerCloud+ plan* include access to OPUS with all of the mics? in other words is it analogous to the old "Hollywood Diamond"?
> 
> *which appears to be the only ComposerCloud plan available on the website anymore


Yes, it is all the diamond/platinum libraries so you get all the mics.


----------



## NoamL

Markrs said:


> Yes, it is all the diamond/platinum libraries so you get all the mics.



Thanks! That's a pretty good deal.


----------



## odod

new update and more content i guess


----------



## jamieboo

odod said:


> new update and more content i guess


Yeah, what do we know about this?
OPUS update to 1.2.4 and also each section of HO.
No details mentioned yet on the EW Support page.


----------



## muziksculp

jamieboo said:


> Yeah, what do we know about this?
> OPUS update to 1.2.4 and also each section of HO.
> No details mentioned yet on the EW Support page.


Interesting. Would surely want to know more details about the update. 

Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## EanS

muziksculp said:


> Interesting. Would surely want to know more details about the update.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up.


These for new Scores I see now.






One is misnumbered _Duplicated_ (two Classic Chills 01)






On OPUS instruments, no idea yet.


----------



## EgM

Checking the files I've noticed dated 9/9/2022 "EW String Machine", I don't recall any product from EW called that. Possibly Opus upgraded for a future release?


----------



## muziksculp

From what I see posted here, this seems like a very minor update. Nothing very special.


----------



## jamieboo

muziksculp said:


> From what I see posted here, this seems like a very minor update. Nothing very special.


Yeah. In terms of HO specific changes, is it mainly Orchestrator stuff?

*Edit*
Oh, hang on... The support page now lists some details...


New Auto Filter added to mixer effects
Release Trail (RT) button fixed. Instruments load with release trails again
RT level jump after reloading projects (expression was changed) - fixed
RAM load increases after each save in DAW - fixed
Pro Drummer GUI - fixed
Crackle in Stereo Double and ADT - fixed
Zoom Performance UI makes HOA GUI non functional - fixed
Opus/ Orchestrator sometimes doesn’t recognize libraries as fully installed - fixed
Audio glitches with Polyphonic Aftertouch - fixed
Dragging Controller to macros blocked to avoid MIDI feedback
Potential crashes - fixed
Instruments go silent after toggling effects with some DAW preferences (Big Process Buffer Range in Logic) - fixed


----------



## Justin L. Franks

EgM said:


> Checking the files I've noticed dated 9/9/2022 "EW String Machine", I don't recall any product from EW called that. Possibly Opus upgraded for a future release?



"String Machine" is probably an upcoming library with....sampled string machines (Solina and similar).


----------



## odod

it is faster on my old machine tho ..


----------



## jamieboo

I'm away from my DAW for the next week so I can't tinker, so anyone got any experience of the new OPUS 1.2.4?
Any noticeable improvements for HO apart from Orchestrator stuff?


----------



## Xabierus Music

jamieboo said:


> I'm away from my DAW for the next week so I can't tinker, so anyone got any experience of the new OPUS 1.2.4?
> Any noticeable improvements for HO apart from Orchestrator stuff?


Hi, i have Opus in the composercloud + since april and I noticed a problem with the release trails in some (almost all) sustain patches for example the clarinets exp, violas sus, etc, when i played two notes or a chord followed by another to make a progression and draw the dinamics and expression there was a jump in volume in the transition from one chord to the next one (and also if there was only one note followed by other note) in that time the partial and ugly solution that i found was put a gap in the expression to level 0 in that transition but now with the update, the button "release trails" is working so i just have to turn it off and the transition is smooth as it has to be, so that is fixed (the button) 

good work EW team!


----------



## eric_w

Got some questions

1) I have HS and HB from back in the day (using PLAY). For the $295 upgrade, do I get access to both libraries in Opus as well as the rest of the orchestral series? Looking on the site, it appears that I will get access to everything but I want to make sure.

2) Will there be an upgrade discount in the future? Kinda low on cash right now, hoping to catch a future holiday discount or something.

3) Can anyone comment about Hollywood Strings in particular - is the update worthwhile in terms of sound, playability? What all was re-recorded with Strings? Was it just stage mic or was everything re-recorded? Are there additional touch-ups to the sound that differ from the original, aside from the "Mood" controls? My main use are spiccatos, so I'm curious if there's any improvements I should know.


----------



## EanS

eric_w said:


> Got some questions
> 
> 1) I have HS and HB from back in the day (using PLAY). For the $295 upgrade, do I get access to both libraries in Opus as well as the rest of the orchestral series? Looking on the site, it appears that I will get access to everything but I want to make sure.
> 
> 2) Will there be an upgrade discount in the future? Kinda low on cash right now, hoping to catch a future holiday discount or something.
> 
> 3) Can anyone comment about Hollywood Strings in particular - is the update worthwhile in terms of sound, playability? What all was re-recorded with Strings? Was it just stage mic or was everything re-recorded? Are there additional touch-ups to the sound that differ from the original, aside from the "Mood" controls? My main use are spiccatos, so I'm curious if there's any improvements I should know.


1) Everything turns to Diamond version (all mics) including the ones you have.


2) Never seen better than this. If cash is low go Composer Cloud first.


3) Go #2 and for $19.99 you can check yourself plus all libraries plus getting rid of Play and use OPUS


----------



## BassClef

eric_w said:


> Got some questions
> 
> 1) I have HS and HB from back in the day (using PLAY). For the $295 upgrade, do I get access to both libraries in Opus as well as the rest of the orchestral series? Looking on the site, it appears that I will get access to everything but I want to make sure.
> 
> 2) Will there be an upgrade discount in the future? Kinda low on cash right now, hoping to catch a future holiday discount or something.
> 
> 3) Can anyone comment about Hollywood Strings in particular - is the update worthwhile in terms of sound, playability? What all was re-recorded with Strings? Was it just stage mic or was everything re-recorded? Are there additional touch-ups to the sound that differ from the original, aside from the "Mood" controls? My main use are spiccatos, so I'm curious if there's any improvements I should know.


Yes... you will get the full orchestra... strings, brass, woodwinds, percussion and orchestrator. You also get solo vn, vc and harp. When I picked up the deal, I only had HW Orchestra Percussion!


----------



## eric_w

Do I only get a single license if I update to Opus?


----------



## BassClef

Not sure I understand your question. You will have license to all of those Opus libraries that I mentioned above.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

eric_w said:


> Do I only get a single license if I update to Opus?


You will still have the Play versions, as a separate license.


----------



## leonardo

BassClef said:


> Not sure I understand your question. You will have license to all of those Opus libraries that I mentioned above.


Maybe he means the fact that with the original purchase of HS (the play version) one got actually two licenses - I don't know if one can upgrade both of them with the purchase of only one upgrade. An interesting question!



eric_w said:


> 3) Can anyone comment about Hollywood Strings in particular - is the update worthwhile in terms of sound, playability?


I have tried the Opus version of HS in Composer Cloud and I think the upgrade is not worth it sincerely. For example the bow change legato now feels really bumpy in comparison to the play version, the old combined patches of slur + bow change legato worked much better for me, those are still my favourite string legato patches of all libraries that I know. Additionally you will lose quite a bit of flexibility in Opus as there are a few patches missing that were present in Play; I don't remember exactly which ones but maybe it was the Marcato legato patch or something similar. Of course the myriad of patches in Play were quite overwhelming in the beginning but gave you a lot of options in the end. The out of the box sound in Opus is a bit sterile in my opinion but of course you can switch off the EQ or change it.
The new 1st violins with 18 players are nice but not at all better than the old 1st violins - I even think they lack a bit in details in comparison to the old violins which are already thick enough.
But of course your best option is to subscribe to Composer Cloud first and hear for yourself!


----------



## jamieboo

OPUS version 1.2.5 just appeared.
No patchnotes up on SoundsOnline yet.


----------



## cqd

Is anyone else having issues with ilok activation since updating?..
I bought forbidden planet last night, installed it, upgraded opus, and the ilok software, and now nothing is working..pro tools wont open, opus standalone wont open...It brings me to an activation screen, but when I go through everything and activation successful comes up, something comes up about tha activation experience thinks the authorization was found, but the wrapper could not verify it..
Rolled back the ilok software but no different..


----------



## EgM

Most of the new files added or updated by Opus itself are audio previews in .ogg format for Forbidden Planet and EW String Machine

You can check the Opus log files at C:\Windows\ProgramData\East West\Opus\Log


----------



## jamieboo

From the ever excellent Lorenz at EastWest Sounds regarding the update:


It features a new online updater that downloads and puts all required files that were previously included in the Product Support installer into place. The Product Installer from the IC is no longer needed.

- Documentation included in auto update
- Permissions fixed for download/ installation of documentation
- Opus launches at end of installation
- Scale selection added for MIDI Chorder
- Engine alerts fixed for MIDI tools
- Fixes in FX preset menu


----------



## jamieboo

So I've been away for the last week and haven't actually grabbed this update yet, but I'll be back at my DAW tomorrow. 
Does there seem to be any problems with this update?
I know cqd had some issues (hope you've sorted it now, mate!) but generally has it been found to be a problem free update?

Thanks


----------



## Xabierus Music

What i noticed is that after the update, some Opus parches that i had loaded in some projects appears without samples (it says 0bytes) and it won't load, i have to create a new channel and add it again, just that


----------



## cqd

jamieboo said:


> So I've been away for the last week and haven't actually grabbed this update yet, but I'll be back at my DAW tomorrow.
> Does there seem to be any problems with this update?
> I know cqd had some issues (hope you've sorted it now, mate!) but generally has it been found to be a problem free update?
> 
> Thanks


I did get them sorted..I think they were more ilok related than opus..
New update seems good here..


----------



## Zirkiel

Hey guys, I have a little issue with the orchestrator. I can't make my sustain pedal works with it... Impossible to sustain without holding the key. I don't have this problem with others EW banks. Only when I use the orchestrator... Anyone having the same troubles?


----------



## EgM

Zirkiel said:


> Hey guys, I have a little issue with the orchestrator. I can't make my sustain pedal works with it... Impossible to sustain without holding the key. I don't have this problem with others EW banks. Only when I use the orchestrator... Anyone having the same troubles?


Yeah, it's a known limitation. Would make sense they would add it later down the line, time will tell


----------



## Quantum Leap

cqd said:


> I did get them sorted..I think they were more ilok related than opus..
> New update seems good here..


Glad it’s sorted. I updated all software on my computer last week and my large varied Logic template with Opus, Sine, Spitfire, Kontakt and Vienna is working better. I still have an issue with my computer where it doesn’t like to shut down. I have no idea why and what’s causing it.

Im curious what you think about Forbidden Planet, once you’ve had some time.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Quantum Leap ,

It's always nice to see you here on VI-C. 

Q. Can we still expect some new content for Hollywood Opus Orchestra to show up this year ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Quantum Leap

There will be new content for Hollywood Opus Orchestra. I can’t tell you more but something big is coming very soon.


----------



## Flyo

When can we have the Upgrade at sale on retailers at least? The actual cost of the upgrade from Play to Opus are almost, equally as a new license, here and there.

Could be very profitable for EW because we already know that there are hundreds of legacy users waiting to go ahead, but they can’t go with the actual upgrade price tag plan. It is not rational as long you need it as if was two different library’s.


----------



## cqd

Flyo said:


> When can we have the Upgrade at sale on retailers at least? The actual cost of the upgrade from Play to Opus are almost, equally as a new license, here and there.
> 
> Could be very profitable for EW because we already know that there are hundreds of legacy users waiting to go ahead, but they can’t go with the actual upgrade price tag plan. It is not rational as long you need it as if was two different library’s.


They do upgrade sales in Feb I think..


----------



## odod

Quantum Leap said:


> There will be new content for Hollywood Opus Orchestra. I can’t tell you more but something big is coming very soon.


Oh yeaaahhh!!!! can't wait


----------



## Allen Constantine

Has anyone tried installing the new Installation Center 1.4.10? 

Every time I download it and install it, the setup launches but version 1.4.9 is still present. 

Here's a picture so that you can understand better.


----------



## ennbr

AllenConstantine said:


> Every time I download it and install it, the setup launches but version 1.4.9 is still present.


The update worked fine on the Mac side downloaded installed and restarted automatically with the 1.4.10 version running


----------



## Allen Constantine

ennbr said:


> The update worked fine on the Mac side downloaded installed and restarted automatically with the 1.4.10 version running


Thanks for checking. I'm on Windows though. If anyone can replicate the issue, please let me know.

EDIT: I just tried updating it again and it worked. Pretty strange.


----------



## carlc

AllenConstantine said:


> Thanks for checking. I'm on Windows though. If anyone can replicate the issue, please let me know.
> 
> EDIT: I just tried updating it again and it worked. Pretty strange.


I am having this issue on Mac. Tried 4-5 times but keeps coming back to the same version with update pending. I will try and reboot when I am able to close down a few other things I’m working on.


----------



## Roknix

AllenConstantine said:


> Has anyone tried installing the new Installation Center 1.4.10?
> 
> Every time I download it and install it, the setup launches but version 1.4.9 is still present.
> 
> Here's a picture so that you can understand better.



Yes I'm having the same Problem. I can see that the installer has changed files. But if I start the IC it still says 1.4.9.

Also Opus keeps reminding me to update (In Opus not IC). But it is up to Date :D


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Did the latest update....good ol' release sample issue still persists. Wishful thinking, but there's always hope.


----------



## RogiervG

Quantum Leap said:


> There will be new content for Hollywood Opus Orchestra. I can’t tell you more but something big is coming very soon.


Oh come on! booo!  share something already!
J/k i know you cannot... but i wished you could (so we can get hyped on it)


----------



## odod

AllenConstantine said:


> Has anyone tried installing the new Installation Center 1.4.10?
> 
> Every time I download it and install it, the setup launches but version 1.4.9 is still present.
> 
> Here's a picture so that you can understand better.


on Mac too .. keep reverting to 4.9


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

EW Instagram posted that something is coming tomorrow...could it be an upgrade to Opus?


----------



## Flyo

I think is a SynthString addition!


----------



## muziksculp

What makes you think it's a SynthString ?


----------



## EgM

EW String Machine is in the Opus Products files


----------



## Quantum Leap

That’s NOT the big thing I was talking about.


----------



## muziksculp

Quantum Leap said:


> That’s NOT the big thing I was talking about.


I'm happy to hear that, and I wasn't thinking it is. Thanks for confirming.


----------



## Alchemedia

It's officially tomorrow. What happened?


----------



## muziksculp

Alchemedia said:


> It's officially tomorrow. What happened?


Maybe they got tangled up in a time warp. So.. Tomorrow is another Tomorrow now.


----------



## Alchemedia

muziksculp said:


> Maybe they got tangled up in a time warp. So.. Tomorrow is another Tomorrow now.


----------



## Alchemedia

@muziksculp Right up your alley! You can never have enough string machines!


----------



## EgM

Just tried it, it's on Composer Cloud


----------



## Alchemedia

UVI's String Machines 2 is a tough act to follow. How does this stack up?


----------



## José Herring

muziksculp said:


> Maybe they got tangled up in a time warp. So.. Tomorrow is another Tomorrow now.


I'm Puerto Rican and I always view East West timelines through Puerto Rican time. So "tomorrow" means not today and anytime in the next week up to a year. But if it goes beyond a year then they should absolutely come back here and give us an "any day now" which extends the time by another year automatically.


----------



## EgM

Alchemedia said:


> UVI's String Machines 2 is a tough act to follow. How does this stack up?


I just tried it a few minutes, I'm not really the best target audience for these kinds of libraries since I only do orchestra. But it sounded nice


----------



## ChazC

I just watched the walkthrough, sounds great. I’ve not tried String Machines 2 from UVI though so not sure how it stacks up against that but this EW offering sounds massive. Forbidden Planet didn’t float my boat so never bothered with that but this one’s got my attention and is on the radar for the inevitable 60% off in a few months.


----------



## Lannister

Not sure what PC he's using, but the CPU% was hitting 50% on some of those demo patches.


----------



## RogiervG

maybe we should discuss string machines in a dedicated thread instead of here?


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

Hallo! just came here to report the famous EW click, still in 20222



I am ok with the click , but not with this:



https://gearspace.com/board/music-computers/802822-problems-clicks-samples-eastwest-complete-composers-collection.html




It is obvious: all my template working well, and just here the demon clicks, disturbing this angelical moment where i touch the key and have direct access to paradise


Is there a possible way for EW to take this sample out and apply RX 7 on it, as I did myself?


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

RogiervG said:


> maybe we should discuss string machines in a dedicated thread instead of here?


do in both! why not


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

Quantum Leap said:


> There will be new content for Hollywood Opus Orchestra. I can’t tell you more but something big is coming very soon.


Exciting! would love a good full and complete ens. patch with more features (like some features of Hyperion / 8Dio)


----------



## RogiervG

Emanuel Fróes said:


> do in both! why not


don't you check thread titles?


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> EW Hollywood Orchestra OPUS users, do you tend to use other non-East West Orchestral Libraries to complement it with ?
> 
> If Yes, what are the other Orchestral Libraries you like to use with HOOPUS ?
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> Thanks.


I did not try this combo my self. But while doing my new template with VEP here I have the impression that EW strings and MAJESTICA strings make a huge combo. Not togheter , but for different moments of the music. Also the high majestica woodwinds will be an essential patch to completement your EW instruments. They have 10000 instruments but no proper and simple woodwind ensemble patch ... Many companies miss here. 

For a smaller sound, if you use EW strings close, the EPIC Orchestra of VEP has already a great complement, also in the woodwinds patch. just pay attention with the transitions, and when you. use ensemble patches in foreground of the music


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

RogiervG said:


> don't you check thread titles?


of course. But the subjects are interconnected. People want to just talk about what they think it matters for music, at the end of the day, and the most important subject will comme back anyway. You can start the thread and see.

This is a huge thread, and believe me: many people will keep talking later about the central topic, because EW´s HO is a perfect subject for discussions haha 

i dont know the stats of the website, but i would say EW , string libraries, and VEP are the top subjects to talk forever


----------



## handz

Alchemedia said:


> @muziksculp Right up your alley! You can never have enough string machines!



I have 0 string machines and I am good. Thank you. But really can’t wait for that new OPUS Orchestra stuff 😱❤️


----------



## dzilizzi

handz said:


> I have 0 string machines and I am good. Thank you. But really can’t wait for that new OPUS Orchestra stuff 😱❤️


Truthfully, with the right ensemble patch, play it like an organ and voila! String machine with fancy samples!


----------



## aeliron

Emanuel Fróes said:


> do in both! why not


Cause that’s not divisi


----------



## muziksculp

Alchemedia said:


> @muziksculp Right up your alley! You can never have enough string machines!



No Thanks . 

Waiting for the new content for HOOPUS. Hopefully soon, I'm guessing next month.


----------



## Flyo

Still waiting for a real good discount for Legacy HO Diamond users.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Flyo said:


> Still waiting for a real good discount for Legacy HO Diamond users.


That ship sailed a long time ago. Now that the Plus version is standard, the sale price is a killer deal.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jeremy Spencer said:


> That ship sailed a long time ago. Now that the Plus version is standard, the sale price is a killer deal.


Considering that OPUS only gives you a single license, I wish I waited and kept my diamond license.


----------



## Markrs

dzilizzi said:


> Considering that OPUS only gives you a single license, I wish I waited and kept my diamond license.


Meet to, I bought the upgrade at $300 but would have been happy to pay $338 from JRR and kept a license I could use on another machine.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

dzilizzi said:


> Considering that OPUS only gives you a single license, I wish I waited and kept my diamond license.


Fortunately, I also had Composer Cloud ($10), so I can still use the old Diamond stuff...which I prefer. That stinks that they took away your other license.


----------



## Flyo

I just want the update, not a second license. New license at that price is the same for upgrading. Simply as that


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Flyo said:


> I just want the update, not a second license. New license at that price is the same for upgrading. Simply as that


It's just like Spaces II, cheaper to just buy it again as opposed to upgrading. I honestly don't think you'll see a future cheaper option for upgrading from HO Diamond, as the sale prices for a full version are already rock bottom IMO.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Fortunately, I also had Composer Cloud ($10), so I can still use the old Diamond stuff...which I prefer. That stinks that they took away your other license.


Hmm. Looks like I still have 2, but only one Opus. Not sure how that works.


----------



## cqd

Yeah, get over it..think of it this way..you're getting one of the most deeply sampled orchestras out there, for less than the price of one section of the competitors..


----------



## Flyo

Unbelievable. I have 80% of these recordings, of course already pay for it with the hard drive that comes for the full diamond. I don't wanna other licenses.


----------



## darx

Any speculation as to what the new HOOPUS content will be?


----------



## Alchemedia

darx said:


> Any speculation as to what the new HOOPUS content will be?


Good question.


----------



## Audio Birdi

darx said:


> Any speculation as to what the new HOOPUS content will be?


Hoping for the player itself to be a lot more efficient RAM usage wise, the same template loads into 62gb ram usage using the PLAY host, but ends up loading as 120gb RAM usage using the same libraries!

Also shared RAM usage for sample files used per instrument if the same patch is loaded please!


----------



## AndyP

Yesterday I installed the latest update of OPUS HO, and I noticed that my symphonic choirs now also work in OPUS. This was not the case for quite a while and I did not try it at some point, but it was still a nice surprise.

I still think that OPUS HO is one of the best orchestral libraries. The slur shorts are just awesome.


----------



## BasariStudios

2 Years later this Topic still going strong.


----------



## carlc

BasariStudios said:


> 2 Years later this Topic still going strong.


If you like that, check out the East West Forbidden Planet thread that started in 2009: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/what-happened-to-ql-forbidden-planet.12333/


----------



## BasariStudios

carlc said:


> If you like that, check out the East West Forbidden Planet thread that started in 2009: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/what-happened-to-ql-forbidden-planet.12333/


Dear God! The Guy in 2009 says YEARS AGO.


----------



## carlc

BasariStudios said:


> Dear God! The Guy in 2009 says YEARS AGO.


Right, like it was already longer than expected!


----------



## Jaap

BasariStudios said:


> Dear God! The Guy in 2009 says YEARS AGO.


The first mention of EW Forbidden Planet was found on an old tablet with hieroglyphs in the piramide of Gizeh


----------



## Alchemedia

Jaap said:


> The first mention of EW Forbidden Planet was found on an old tablet with hieroglyphs in the piramide of Gizeh


Nick is apparently a lot older than he looks.


----------



## Jaap

Alchemedia said:


> Nick is apparently a lot older than he looks.








In his younger days here.


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

Jaap said:


> The first mention of EW Forbidden Planet was found on an old tablet with hieroglyphs in the piramide of Gizeh


lol


btw I have crashes when playing the NOise Drone 1 polyphonically in Logic Pro. The first instrument i use since a long time, after the clicks in boys choir.

I love EW


----------



## darx

Does anyone know if there's a way to get the strings to sound warmer (more like BBCSO?) by using mics, reverbs, EQ, etc...? Thanks.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

darx said:


> Does anyone know if there's a way to get the strings to sound warmer (more like BBCSO?) by using mics, reverbs, EQ, etc...? Thanks.


Have you tried the “soft” mood setting?


----------



## newbreednet

darx said:


> Does anyone know if there's a way to get the strings to sound warmer (more like BBCSO?) by using mics, reverbs, EQ, etc...? Thanks.


I found that I much preferred the sound of the strings once I'd had a trial of Spaces II and discovered the "Reynolds Hall" preset. It brought them to life for me. Once my trial run out I bought it!


----------



## darx

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Have you tried the “soft” mood setting?


I'll experiment with it a little more!


----------



## darx

newbreednet said:


> I found that I much preferred the sound of the strings once I'd had a trial of Spaces II and discovered the "Reynolds Hall" preset. It brought them to life for me. Once my trial run out I bought it!


I'll try that out too. Thanks!


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

my latest: oboe sus lite patch out of tune


----------



## EgM

Emanuel Fróes said:


> my latest: oboe sus lite patch out of tune


Never use those, haha
We have modern machines, use all the MAX patches


----------



## Flyo

Hi, anyone knows if its possible to make a clean install of all Opus Orchestra without the previous archives of Play version? 

There will be any benefit to do it that way? re download everything but just the updated version


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

Flyo said:


> Hi, anyone knows if its possible to make a clean install of all Opus Orchestra without the previous archives of Play version?
> 
> There will be any benefit to do it that way? re download everything but just the updated version


I think you will get Opus asking for samples or starting downloading it anyway . Orchestrator may not fully work, or some articulations. BOth have to go togheter i guess


----------



## cqd

I got an update to the percussion there today..
Anyone know what it was?..
Anything noticeable?


----------



## jamieboo

cqd said:


> I got an update to the percussion there today..
> Anyone know what it was?..
> Anything noticeable?


Just got a reply from Support:
'It's an update for the sleigh bells in anticipation for the next orchestrator preset update.'


----------



## darx

IS "HOLLYWOOD STRINGS" SOUND NOW DATED?


I've watched demos of NSS. For some reason it's not grasping me. I wish it did because at 150, I'd save a crap tonne of cash 😂 CS2 is the most likely purchase right now. I love that sound. Just concerned about the legato not being able to keep up, and the noisy tails I've heard about. Other...




vi-control.net





Nick Phoenix says that the next phase of HO is going to be surprising, and that there are going to be more phases after that.

Any new guesses based on this new piece of information?

Perhaps hybrid orchestral stuff? Or maybe it's going to be expansion packs with specific articulations? Or even sample modeling???


----------



## cqd

Sounds very encouraging anyway..


----------



## Architekton

I am looking at this opus deal - not sure should I go for it or not?! Anyone uses it - any pros/cons? Thx


----------



## Satorious

Finally downloaded - that was an epic undertaking, I don't know why some of you were complaining about it only taking 10-20 hours!  
That said, not sure if anyone who has installed can help as having problems with Opus player. It's saying there is no valid licence of my installed libraries (including older ones which still work perfectly fine under Play). My iLok License Manager is saying both EW Opus and EW Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition are 'authorised' - plus the seven Opus Libraries downloads are all showing as activated in the EW Installation Center. Not sure if I'm missing anything obvious?


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

Satorious said:


> Finally downloaded - that was an epic undertaking, I don't know why some of you were complaining about it only taking 10-20 hours!
> That said, not sure if anyone who has installed can help as having problems with Opus player. It's saying there is no valid licence of my installed libraries (including older ones which still work perfectly fine under Play). My iLok License Manager is saying both EW Opus and EW Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition are 'authorised' - plus the seven Opus Libraries downloads are all showing as activated in the EW Installation Center. Not sure if I'm missing anything obvious?


check if the cloud mode is activated in Ilok

* If you are "active member" here, I find more likely that they forget something obvious.


----------



## Satorious

Thank you so much for your response @Emanuel Fróes. Hmm - seems I can activate the libraries on my iLok stick/machine, but not my cloud. As for Opus (player) - this is activated on my machine - but it doesn't appear to be giving me an option to activate on my iLok USB stick (which is admitted an older one) or cloud (which I would expect). I had to update my iLok License Manager before I could activate - so not sure if this has caused part of the problem - I'm a little rusty on iLok as I don't update it that often. Attached a snapshot of how things look in my iLok Manager. Unless it there is something painfully obvious to try, looks like I'll be contacting their support center.


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

Satorious said:


> Thank you so much for your response @Emanuel Fróes. Hmm - seems I can activate the libraries on my iLok stick/machine, but not my cloud. As for Opus (player) - this is activated on my machine - but it doesn't appear to be giving me an option to activate on my iLok USB stick (which is admitted an older one) or cloud (which I would expect). I had to update my iLok License Manager before I could activate - so not sure if this has caused part of the problem - I'm a little rusty on iLok as I don't update it that often. Attached a snapshot of how things look in my iLok Manager. Unless it there is something painfully obvious to try, looks like I'll be contacting their support center.


ON my appears just appears Copmposer Clopud, thats all. So for THIS the support will certainly be able to help you on chat


----------



## Flyo

HOOPUS is awesome, what a huge improvement from Play!

One super simple thing I encounter really annoying in workflow...
There is no way to remove articulations in the keyswitch tab for KS selection yet right?

I know there is another way to program KS as you want even further, but you lost the main play tab and the center main "articulation" button for having all the KS in one place, for mixing entirely in one place also.

It is so unnecessary to have all (almost) articulations without the possibility for remove the arts you don't want. Every one still visible all the time... on main KS tab and the most annoying in the long list of the player, of course even if you already disable it.

HOPUS is more advanced in every regard but I got used to the SF player... one simple thing is the way you could remove and even rearrange the way that KS appears. A super simple task that change entirely the workflow with KS!


----------



## cqd

Flyo said:


> HOOPUS is awesome, what a huge improvement from Play!
> 
> One super simple thing I encounter really annoying in workflow...
> There is no way to remove articulations in the keyswitch tab for KS selection yet right?
> 
> I know there is another way to program KS as you want even further, but you lost the main play tab and the center main "articulation" button for having all the KS in one place, for mixing entirely in one place also.
> 
> It is so unnecessary to have all (almost) articulations without the possibility for remove the arts you don't want. Every one still visible all the time... on main KS tab and the most annoying in the long list of the player, of course even if you already disable it.
> 
> HOPUS is more advanced in every regard but I got used to the SF player... one simple thing is the way you could remove and even rearrange the way that KS appears. A super simple task that change entirely the workflow with KS!


You can totally remove all unwanted articulations..go into the articulations page and turn them off..you can organise them exactly how you'd like..


----------



## Flyo

cqd said:


> You can totally remove all unwanted articulations..go into the articulations page and turn them off..you can organise them exactly how you'd like..


Thanks but how?
I try every move I guess, the KS are fixed in their default position (random order in fact) and disable it (turn off) don’t really remove form the tab, every one still there, also on the player tab too


----------



## cqd

Flyo said:


> Thanks but how?
> I try every move I guess, the KS are fixed in their default position (random order in fact) and disable it (turn off) don’t really remove form the tab, every one still there, also on the player tab too


At the menu at the top (beside browse) hit the play page..then hit articulations, which takes you to the articulations page, where you can turn them on or off, pick how they're selected, and what key they're on..this is not the articulations list in the middle..


----------



## Flyo

cqd said:


> At the menu at the top (beside browse) hit the play page..then hit articulations, which takes you to the articulations page, where you can turn them on or off, pick how they're selected, and what key they're on..this is not the articulations list in the middle..


Yes, I know in there you could select the KS key and assign few parameters and other functions to work it. My observation was that you could not remove, or even move any keyswitch in the way that appears in there, just turn on or off, or take the select KS to "none". You disable it but keeps appearing with any function and any possibility to move it, same as in the player on the articulation list. The most unusual and annoying thing is that you can't even move the articulations hierarchy there also.


----------



## Flyo

Also the piano roll it is not
Large enough to show where you assign KS keys when you need to assign it further down for low sections as C-1 and so on for example. I really prefer smaller piano rolls keys to view the larger picture


----------



## Allen Constantine

Quantum Leap said:


> There will be new content for Hollywood Opus Orchestra. I can’t tell you more but something big is coming very soon.


Any updates on this next big thing? Estimated time frame within this year or the next?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Allen Constantine said:


> Any updates on this next big thing? Estimated time frame within this year or the next?


Don’t know about that but there should be an update today, a new pack for the Hollywood orchestrator, probably comedy


----------



## handz

Allen Constantine said:


> Any updates on this next big thing? Estimated time frame within this year or the next?


I wonder as well I hope it is not content for the orchestrator, but some new prerecorded instruments (woodwinds pls)


----------



## Allen Constantine

handz said:


> I wonder as well I hope it is not content for the orchestrator, but some new prerecorded instruments (woodwinds pls)


Well, Nick stated that there will be something nobody has thought about. Surprise surprise, what could it be? 

@Quantum Leap, any more updates?


----------



## Braveheart

Allen Constantine said:


> Well, Nick stated that there will be something nobody has thought about. Surprise surprise, what could it be?
> 
> @Quantum Leap, any more updates?


A comedy pack, nobody has thought about that


----------



## Flyo

The new recordings of the upgrade Hopus sound better, head to head, in the 2 trumpets for example!
More solid, with more rounded full sound, also the releases sound more natural with their reverbs, all the new recordings sound better and are scripted better also.

Imagine if they update every instrument and ensamble section presented with new recordings with same exact articulations across all sections… blast!

And put older sections available also, under folder based on legacy content if you need it.

But, could be great if this update adhiere all of the ‘legacy’ articulations that are unique like unique effects from the ‘legacy’ recordings, under same structure of the new material in the same context when you need those. I think you don’t need to re-record that ones and effectively they don’t re-record it. But could be better if this unique material are included in the same structure of the new material.😅


----------



## zolhof

I delayed updating HO because of the many reports of Opus performing poorly compared to Play. @Sample Fuel and @José Herring recent posts hint that this is still an issue. Anyone else care to share their experience? I'm on Windows.

@ALittleNightMusic I remember reading that EW reproduced your CPU issues, did they ever fix it for you?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

zolhof said:


> I delayed updating HO because of the many reports of Opus performing poorly compared to Play. @Sample Fuel and @José Herring recent posts hint that this is still an issue. Anyone else care to share their experience? I'm on Windows.
> 
> @ALittleNightMusic I remember reading that EW reproduced your CPU issues, did they ever fix it for you?


This is still an ongoing issue, on Mac at least....






OPUS Hollywood Strings - Release samples issues


Hi folks / OPUS HWS users Can you please check the below issues 1-Release samples issue with all instruments (full sections or Divisis) labeled "Leg Slur MAX": Regardless which mic position is loaded, when you ride the dynamic (Expression/CC11) below 50%, the played note becomes quieter (as...




vi-control.net





For this reason, I'm still using Play 6 for HO.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

zolhof said:


> I delayed updating HO because of the many reports of Opus performing poorly compared to Play. @Sample Fuel and @José Herring recent posts hint that this is still an issue. Anyone else care to share their experience? I'm on Windows.
> 
> @ALittleNightMusic I remember reading that EW reproduced your CPU issues, did they ever fix it for you?


Opus is working great now for me - much better than Play ever did.


----------



## Flyo

A simpler use of the articulations are in need to be improved also, with the most simple addition to have the possibility to move around articulations under articulations tab or both in the player tab! 
We need the possibility to re arrange the order that is fixed from the begging in KS Masters. 
You don’t need to see the arts you already deselected, or simple the option to re arrange it.

Also maybe when you deselect any arts, the gray color under articulation tab could change a little bit more contrasted gray one.🤓


----------



## cqd

zolhof said:


> I delayed updating HO because of the many reports of Opus performing poorly compared to Play. @Sample Fuel and @José Herring recent posts hint that this is still an issue. Anyone else care to share their experience? I'm on Windows.
> 
> @ALittleNightMusic I remember reading that EW reproduced your CPU issues, did they ever fix it for you?


Play was horrific until version 6?..
Opus I find OK, although I'm using it in vepro..
Not any worse than any of the other new players..


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Allen Constantine said:


> Well, Nick stated that there will be something nobody has thought about. Surprise surprise, what could it be?


Affordable upgrade prices?


----------



## Allen Constantine

AceAudioHQ said:


> Affordable upgrade prices?


We'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## Fleer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Opus is working great now for me - much better than Play ever did.


Night and day for me, night and day. Opus makes me smile each time I launch it.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Fleer said:


> Night and day for me, night and day. Opus makes me smile each time I launch it.


I don't see much difference between play or opus, except opus it a bit more cpu intensive. both work fine.


----------



## Draco Solis

Having finally gotten around to downloading this...how long have the Main mics been available for harp and solo strings? When i tried it through CC only the close and mid mics were available, but now I have an option for main mics on them?

I mean, I'm not complaining, but it's strange xD


----------



## odod

Well, here's the new updates .. keep em coming EW!


----------



## larry777

rlundv said:


> Moved my Opus template to VEP because of this. Win 10, Cubase 12 Pro.


The only way to run properly HO Opus is in VEP, if using only Cubase it takes ages to save the session above 10 tracks of HO.


----------



## Fleer

Running fine in Unify and Logic Pro.


----------



## odod

larry777 said:


> The only way to run properly HO Opus is in VEP, if using only Cubase it takes ages to save the session above 10 tracks of HO.


depends on the machine, mine is an old macmini 2012 .. my template is fast enough tho, with 64tracks oh EWHO


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

HI, how to prevent the annoying Disk Too Slow message? I use 1t Sandisk SSD. Is this not enough for EW? What else can I do to just use the sounds...

On VEP i noticed that after this happens, VEP starts a HUGE delay and start making a "chord" from every thing i play.

Later starts a situation of hanging note, and those glitches we love.


----------



## cedricm

Emanuel Fróes said:


> HI, how to prevent the annoying Disk Too Slow message? I use 1t Sandisk SSD. Is this not enough for EW? What else can I do to just use the sounds...
> 
> On VEP i noticed that after this happens, VEP starts a HUGE delay and start making a "chord" from every thing i play.
> 
> Later starts a situation of hanging note, and those glitches we love.


Is your disk type correctly configured in Opus? e. g not as NVMe if it isn't? How are you using vep? On the same computer as your daw?


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

cedricm said:


> Is your disk type correctly configured in Opus? e. g not as NVMe if it isn't? How are you using vep? On the same computer as your daw?


I am using VEP on same computer, since I am not so happy to pay 100$ for the ilok yet...

Important is to note that Opus and in my suspicion the H.Orchestrator started the "season" of unhappines and depression in the VEP workflow here, with some "new" sounds. ; ) ....

Ben also told me that OPUS and VEP still do not work perfectly safe, I should wait for next updates. Butt he disk message was there way before I bought VEP; i thought it was problem of my gear. BUt now i have an overkiller of 128 gb RAm, and if the SSD 1t SanDisk is not enough, I wonder how people are doing


the fix is to run first aid, reset, restart etc. BUt, common...


----------



## cedricm

It looks like you only have 1 SSD? Are all East West libraries installed on this drive?
Are you insuring VEP does not take too much memory and there's enough for the DAW and OPUS?

Have you contacted EW's support? They're quite responsive.

But first, I would test a project with Opus directly - without VEP.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Emanuel Fróes said:


> I am using VEP on same computer, since I am not so happy to pay 100$ for the ilok yet...


$100? The dongle isn’t that much. 

What type of port is your SSD connected? And what are you using for an audio interface?


----------



## cqd

Emanuel Fróes said:


> I am using VEP on same computer, since I am not so happy to pay 100$ for the ilok yet...
> 
> Important is to note that Opus and in my suspicion the H.Orchestrator started the "season" of unhappines and depression in the VEP workflow here, with some "new" sounds. ; ) ....
> 
> Ben also told me that OPUS and VEP still do not work perfectly safe, I should wait for next updates. Butt he disk message was there way before I bought VEP; i thought it was problem of my gear. BUt now i have an overkiller of 128 gb RAm, and if the SSD 1t SanDisk is not enough, I wonder how people are doing
> 
> 
> the fix is to run first aid, reset, restart etc. BUt, common...


I would turn off the multithreaded reverb and switch to never preload..
I wouldn't run the orchestrator in vep either though..I'd run that in the daw tbh..


----------



## Markrs

On Monday EastWest and @Rtomproductions are having a live stream where you can ask questions on Monday. Might be useful for some on here.



Details below:

Join us for the first ever EastWest Holiday Special livestream event this Monday December 12th at 1:00 PM Eastern / 10:00 AM Pacific.

We'll be breaking down a Christmas soundtrack written entirely with EastWest virtual instruments and taking any and all questions on it. Nothing is off the table. We'll be covering topics like how to write an effective theme, orchestration, programming and mixing techniques.

Not only that, but if you submit a question during the livestream, you could be one of 12 viewers to win a free year of ComposerCloud+.


----------



## José Herring

I'm experience OPUS getting more CPU intensive with each update. Opus 1.0.0 didn't notice any CPU hit at all. This latest update almost every string patch with legato puts the ASIO meter at 50% and the rep. patches...fogetta'boutit.

Not sure if I'm doing something wrong. I may fiddle with the preload buffer sizes if I can.


----------



## orange

Anyone tried the portamento in the Hollywood Orchestra Opus patches ?


----------



## Draco Solis

orange said:


> Anyone tried the portamento in the Hollywood Orchestra Opus patches ?


Done it when trying it out before buying. Why so?


----------



## orange

Draco Solis said:


> Why so?


did you find it worked correctly ? - not working at all here - or more specifically, it's hilariously broken.


----------



## Draco Solis

orange said:


> did you find it worked correctly ? - not working at all here - or more specifically, it's hilariously broken.


Haven't encountered any issues using it myself yet. What's it doing for you?


----------



## orange

Draco Solis said:


> What's it doing for you?


It doesn't work correctly on any of the patches I've tried it on. When enabled it just plays a flat/sharp note for the second patch. The larger the interval the bigger the 'out of tuneness' of the 2nd note. 

You'd expect it to slide from that flat/sharp note to the correct one at a speed depending on where the TIME dial is set - but it doesn't. It just stays flat/sharp. Increasing the TIME dial just increases the flat/sharp amount.

Confirmed by EW support - although they suggest that this might be 'expected behaviour' and not a bug ?


----------



## odod

orange said:


> Anyone tried the portamento in the Hollywood Orchestra Opus patches ?


which patches to be specific?
have you tried the articulations tab?


----------



## orange

odod said:


> which patches to be specific?


I'm not sure I tried every patch - but every solo cello/violin legato patch I tried had the issue. So did the trombone patches I tried.


----------



## cqd

orange said:


> I'm not sure I tried every patch - but every solo cello/violin legato patch I tried had the issue. So did the trombone patches I tried.


Have you enabled it in the player?..you can adjust the length of it too there..


----------



## orange

cqd said:


> Have you enabled it in the player?.


yes - of course


----------



## odod

orange said:


> yes - of course


How about in the articulation tabs?


----------



## cqd

Does the cc have to be above a certain value maybe?..


----------



## orange

odod said:


> How about in the articulation tabs?


there is an 'articulation tab' ?

In OPUS I load a string patch - go to the player screen and enable portamento in the PERFORMANCE section - with comedy results - are you saying it needs to be enabled elsewhere ?



cqd said:


> Does the cc have to be above a certain value maybe?..


not sure what a CC has to do with it ? - you can control the TIME value with a CC but you can also just adjust it by hand - Doesn't work at any value but gets increasingly bad as the value increases.

Are you saying it's working for you (latest version - windows) ?

As I've said - EW support have confirmed what I'm hearing - so interesting if you are hearing something different.


----------



## cqd

Tbh I haven't used it in ages..it was working at some point though..I'll see of I can check tonight..


----------



## EgM

orange said:


> there is an 'articulation tab' ?
> 
> In OPUS I load a string patch - go to the player screen and enable portamento in the PERFORMANCE section - with comedy results - are you saying it needs to be enabled elsewhere ?


That portamento in the performance section is just a scripted portamento (pitch bend). For example in strings V1, I would typically pick the "Legato Slur + Port MAX" patch and playing at low velocity would trigger a recorded portamento.

The solo violin and cello don't appear to have recorded portamento


----------



## orange

yes - it's the scripted portamento that I'm talking about


----------



## EgM

orange said:


> yes - it's the scripted portamento that I'm talking about


I wouldn't use that personally


----------



## orange

EgM said:


> I wouldn't use that personally


neither would I  

although how else are you going to do it on the solo strings ?


----------



## EgM

orange said:


> neither would I
> 
> although how else are you going to do it on the solo strings ?


Only the legato slurs have been recorded (I think) so I would reach for another solo violin if I had to do portamento...


----------



## orange

EgM said:


> I would reach for another solo violin if I had to do portamento...


well yes, so would I - and you don't have an option as it's broken in Opus - which was the point of my post.


----------



## Emanuel Fróes

I don´t reember if i got frustrated with the portamento in HO . BUt Hyperion is a really "comprehensive basic " library , you get all basic articulations , gliss and legato control are great. Or Anthology strings in the sales now..


Hyperion and Heaviocity and HO and Majestica in action 


Precisely for the portamento in the half of the piece at 00:58 i opened a track for Hyperion strings. 


But it is not so present, i could highlight the violins more there and at the end. I had "decision fatigue" mixing this music, a lot going on. Next week I can remix for soundcloud.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Emanuel Fróes said:


> I use 1t Sandisk SSD. Is this not enough for EW?


Some ssd's run slower If they don't have at least 25% empty space, is yours full?


----------



## odod

orange said:


> there is an 'articulation tab' ?
> 
> In OPUS I load a string patch - go to the player screen and enable portamento in the PERFORMANCE section - with comedy results - are you saying it needs to be enabled elsewhere ?
> 
> 
> not sure what a CC has to do with it ? - you can control the TIME value with a CC but you can also just adjust it by hand - Doesn't work at any value but gets increasingly bad as the value increases.
> 
> Are you saying it's working for you (latest version - windows) ?
> 
> As I've said - EW support have confirmed what I'm hearing - so interesting if you are hearing something different.



View attachment Port.mp4


----------



## orange

odod said:


> View attachment Port.mp4


thanks for doing that

have you tried loading an EW Hollywood Solo Cello > legato patch and using portamento on that ?

(EDIT)

just loaded the same patch (18V KS Master) - and enabling portamento on that patch like you (5 seconds into your video) immediately gives an out of tune 2nd note, where yours is fine.
I'm using windows - Opus 1.2.5 
wonder if you mac version doesn't have the issue ?


----------



## peterharket

Anyone know if the missing sustain pedal functionality has been added in the orchestrator?


----------



## odod

orange said:


> thanks for doing that
> 
> have you tried loading an EW Hollywood Solo Cello > legato patch and using portamento on that ?
> 
> (EDIT)
> 
> just loaded the same patch (18V KS Master) - and enabling portamento on that patch like you (5 seconds into your video) immediately gives an out of tune 2nd note, where yours is fine.
> I'm using windows - Opus 1.2.5
> wonder if you mac version doesn't have the issue ?


what sample rate is it? and have you checked your disk health? 

here's my setting btw


----------



## orange

odod said:


> what sample rate is it? and have you checked your disk health?
> 
> here's my setting btw


I'm running 44.1khz - and no problems with the disk - running of SSD and load in 2 or 3 seconds.

As I mentioned - EW support confirmed my findings, which is why it's odd that it's working for you


----------



## odod

peterharket said:


> Anyone know if the missing sustain pedal functionality has been added in the orchestrator?


Still unavailable :( .. you can just drag the midi and repeat tho, and also maybe use some midi effect to get creative with the pattern instead.


----------



## odod

orange said:


> I'm running 44.1khz - and no problems with the disk - running of SSD and load in 2 or 3 seconds.
> 
> As I mentioned - EW support confirmed my findings, which is why it's odd that it's working for you


maybe try to switch to 48? what is your disk format?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

odod said:


> Still unavailable :( .. you can just drag the midi and repeat tho, and also maybe use some midi effect to get creative with the pattern instead.


I'm too lazy to look in the manual....how do you drag the MIDI into a DAW?


----------



## orange

odod said:


> maybe try to switch to 48? what is your disk format?


disks are NTFS, all suggestions welcome but I think you're barking up the wrong tree  
The machine is combination of Nvme and SSD disks - moving a few (hundred!) gig here and there isn't a problem.

Same issue at 48khz. 

still,it's odd that EW support confirm the issue (hopefully meaning it's not my system) - but you don't have the issue on your Mac.


----------



## cqd

Hello all..so I've been having this issue with the EW pianos in opus..
Randomly they'll get stuck in staccato..can't figure out how to change them back..
Has anyone any ideas?..Is there skme keyswitch or something I'm hitting?..
Thanks


----------



## Mike Fox

Just installed OPUS and the orchestrator, however whenever i load a preset the strings are totally missing, and are highlighted in red.

Installation Center says it’s installed, and i can play the strings outside the Orchestrator engine.

Any ideas?


----------



## cqd

Mike Fox said:


> Just installed OPUS and the orchestrator, however whenever i load a preset the strings are totally missing, and are highlighted in red.
> 
> Installation Center says it’s installed, and i can play the strings outside the Orchestrator engine.
> 
> Any ideas?


There's a keyswitch to mute them?..


----------



## Mike Fox

cqd said:


> There's a keyswitch to mute them?..


It's not muted. The samples are actually missing, or so it says. But what's weird is that i can load them up just fine individually in OPUS.

Here's an example of what pops up whenever I load an orchestrator preset.


----------



## Underscore

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Does anybody know how to make the StacSl Leg BC + Slur + Port MAX patch behave like the Leg Slur patch? I'm using the KS patch so I can't add the Leg Slur + Port patch in which I would prefer. The Leg Slur transitions sound very smooth (like slurs) while the StacSl Leg BC + Slur + Port MAX patch always seems to sound like very sharp accents on each note. I've set velocity to > 60 and CC14 to < 50 and the notes are overlapping, which I believe is supposed to trigger the legato slur.


Same thing is happening to me, and I don't know why. Not only that, but sometimes the notes go really quiet? I'm so confused.

Edit: I've settled for creating a custom key switch using the Perform section. A lot more customizable that way. I'm sure creating a User Patch would be better, but I have no idea how, and nothing useful comes up when I search for it in the manual or online.


----------



## Doppler

Hi guys, for those of you using OPUS with Orchestrator, have you noticed the score presets being completely drenched in reverb?
I'm trying to figure out if this is a bug. The recently released 'Comedy Pack' for example has reverb sends maxed out on almost all instruments. Few of the older ones have slightly reduced sends, but most of them have it maxed out.
Ryan Thomas' demo videos actually sound quite well balanced. When I contacted support, they just mentioned that he balances it on his own and closed the ticket.

I'm just wondering, is this a bug or are the pack presets supposed to sound this drenched in reverb?


----------



## Markrs

Doppler said:


> Hi guys, for those of you using OPUS with Orchestrator, have you noticed the score presets being completely drenched in reverb?
> I'm trying to figure out if this is a bug. The recently released 'Comedy Pack' for example has reverb sends maxed out on almost all instruments. Few of the older ones have slightly reduced sends, but most of them have it maxed out.
> Ryan Thomas' demo videos actually sound quite well balanced. When I contacted support, they just mentioned that he balances it on his own and closed the ticket.
> 
> I'm just wondering, is this a bug or are the pack presets supposed to sound this drenched in reverb?


Ryan @Rtomproductions is on this forum so he might be able to help you


----------



## Frank Stein

Mike Fox said:


> It's not muted. The samples are actually missing, or so it says. But what's weird is that i can load them up just fine individually in OPUS.
> 
> Here's an example of what pops up whenever I load an orchestrator preset.


Hi, Mike I´m having the same problem here. Do you know of any way to solve this problem by now? Reply would be greatl apprechiated. Greetings!


----------



## Mike Fox

Frank Stein said:


> Hi, Mike I´m having the same problem here. Do you know of any way to solve this problem by now? Reply would be greatl apprechiated. Greetings!


I actually just had to re-install everything from scratch, after making sure all the samples were deleted off my drive first.

Kind of a pain, but it worked!


----------



## Rtomproductions

Doppler said:


> Hi guys, for those of you using OPUS with Orchestrator, have you noticed the score presets being completely drenched in reverb?
> I'm trying to figure out if this is a bug. The recently released 'Comedy Pack' for example has reverb sends maxed out on almost all instruments. Few of the older ones have slightly reduced sends, but most of them have it maxed out.
> Ryan Thomas' demo videos actually sound quite well balanced. When I contacted support, they just mentioned that he balances it on his own and closed the ticket.
> 
> I'm just wondering, is this a bug or are the pack presets supposed to sound this drenched in reverb?


It's not a bug; the reverb is on by default for a number of reasons, but if you'll notice in the videos I simply turn it off (takes one click--disabling verb for one instrument disables it for all of them). For use in a DAW, I almost always prefer to use external vs. internal reverb.

Here's a file I made for HO optimization in DAWs (including how I typically have it mixed). If you want it to sound like the videos, just use this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pjtsqxksjdo9bhp/HOLLYWOOD%20ORCHESTRATOR%20OPTIMIZATION.zip?dl=0


----------



## monochrome

cqd said:


> Hello all..so I've been having this issue with the EW pianos in opus..
> Randomly they'll get stuck in staccato..can't figure out how to change them back..
> Has anyone any ideas?..Is there skme keyswitch or something I'm hitting?..
> Thanks


it's been a minute since i've had EW but i remember this happening too. is it the modwheel? I might be wrong but I think I remember there being CC1 functionality to switch between short notes and sustained

sorry if it's not the answer


----------



## Frank Stein

Mike Fox said:


> I actually just had to re-install everything from scratch, after making sure all the samples were deleted off my drive first.
> 
> Kind of a pain, but it worked!


Thanks Mike, looks like the inevitable is about to come over me. (uuuh dramatic...)


----------



## Doppler

Rtomproductions said:


> It's not a bug; the reverb is on by default for a number of reasons, but if you'll notice in the videos I simply turn it off (takes one click--disabling verb for one instrument disables it for all of them). For use in a DAW, I almost always prefer to use external vs. internal reverb.
> 
> Here's a file I made for HO optimization in DAWs (including how I typically have it mixed). If you want it to sound like the videos, just use this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pjtsqxksjdo9bhp/HOLLYWOOD%20ORCHESTRATOR%20OPTIMIZATION.zip?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/pjtsqxksjdo9bhp/HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRATOR OPTIMIZATION.zip?dl=0)


Hi Ryan, thank you so much for the tip. Yeah, I did try it out with disabling the reverb completely and it definitely sounds much better. I'll use an external reverb and re-balance the levels as you've suggested. 

Thanks for sharing the file, appreciate it.


----------



## odod

*Opus 1.3.0 / Dec 22, 2022*


New Preset browser
Presets on mass
Buffer sharing between instruments
MIDI Tools on Performance page (multis/ Orchestrator)
New sustain pedal tool on Performance page (Orchestrator) <-- this is really cool


----------



## peterharket

odod said:


> *Opus 1.3.0 / Dec 22, 2022*
> 
> 
> New Preset browser
> Presets on mass
> Buffer sharing between instruments
> MIDI Tools on Performance page (multis/ Orchestrator)
> New sustain pedal tool on Performance page (Orchestrator) <-- this is really cool


Does this mean that the orchestrator now works with the sustain pedal? 🤩 Can anyone confirm?


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## Allen Constantine

peterharket said:


> Does this mean that the orchestrator now works with the sustain pedal? 🤩 Can anyone confirm?


Yes, I can confirm the Orchestrator works with the sustain pedal!
I have just tried it 
You need to go to the performance tab, under midi tools and click on the + button and select the sustain pedal from there and you're good to go!


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## peterharket

Allen Constantine said:


> Yes, I can confirm the Orchestrator works with the sustain pedal!
> I have just tried it
> You need to go to the performance tab, under midi tools and click on the + button and select the sustain pedal from there and you're good to go!


Wow, great! Now I have no excuse besides an empty wallet 😂


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## Allen Constantine

peterharket said:


> Wow, great! Now I have no excuse besides an empty wallet 😂


For sure! 
I'm more inclined towards traditional composing, but the orchestrator is pretty handy from time to time. 


I guess great stuff will come to OPUS in the long run, as @Quantum Leap mentioned! 

We will see what happens! 

Happy Holidays!


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## odod

peterharket said:


> Does this mean that the orchestrator now works with the sustain pedal? 🤩 Can anyone confirm?


even better you can customise per channel .. give it a try


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## peterharket

odod said:


> even better you can customise per channel .. give it a try


What does that mean?


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## odod

Voila ..


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## jamieboo

odod said:


> Buffer sharing between instruments


If this finally means common sample elements will share RAM, then this is a biggie!


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## cqd

odod said:


> Voila ..


Ah, it's spelt viola..


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## simonpettersson

jamieboo said:


> If this finally means common sample elements will share RAM, then this is a biggie!


It seems two instances of the same patch does not double up RAM.
But with a KS instance of an instrument open and adding a separate instance of a single articulation also contained in the KS instance, it still seems to load more into RAM.


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## jamieboo

simonpettersson said:


> It seems two instances of the same patch does not double up RAM.
> But with a KS instance of an instrument open and adding a separate instance of a single articulation also contained in the KS instance, it still seems to load more into RAM.


Hmmm. Strange inconsistency.
I wonder if loading, say, a horn sustain, and a horn legato (which will also include the sustain element), will share the common sustain element.


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## odod

jamieboo said:


> Hmmm. Strange inconsistency.
> I wonder if loading, say, a horn sustain, and a horn legato (which will also include the sustain element), will share the common sustain element.


maybe try to limit the key range?


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## jamieboo

odod said:


> maybe try to limit the key range?


Sorry fellow, I don't quite know what you mean?


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## Jaaba

Hello, a newbie in this forum and also a new owner of the Diamond edition. I’d be happy to get recommendations of good tutorials for this product. 
I know some music theory, although arranging classical orchestras is outside my knowledge (I did find some interesting books about it).
I will be mostly using the Opus for animations and perhaps folk music.


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## EanS

Jaaba said:


> Hello, a newbie in this forum and also a new owner of the Diamond edition. I’d be happy to get recommendations of good tutorials for this product.
> I know some music theory, although arranging classical orchestras is outside my knowledge (I did find some interesting books about it).
> I will be mostly using the Opus for animations and perhaps folk music.


A "hack": go to Groove3 and subscribe free for 7 days and check this:

https://www.groove3.com/tutorials/Hollywood-Orchestra-Opus-Edition-Explained

And subscribe to this Channel



https://www.youtube.com/@SecondTierSound



And check this series: 



And rtm is always a constant


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## Jaaba

EanS said:


> A "hack": go to Groove3 and subscribe free for 7 days and check this:
> 
> https://www.groove3.com/tutorials/Hollywood-Orchestra-Opus-Edition-Explained
> 
> And subscribe to this Channel
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/@SecondTierSound
> 
> 
> 
> And check this series:
> 
> 
> 
> And rtm is always a constant



Thanks! I had a look at the Secondtier when considering the purchase. I need to have a look at it again. Also took a look at the manual too back then, but didn’t understand much when I didn’t have the software yet. 
And looks like Groove3 has a code for 30 trial now.


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## EanS

At last at last

New 1.3.0 Version aaaand,






The new Preset Browser and Presets on mass have no idea (were there "Big legato" patches previously?) , but finally is added a Sustain Pedal tool for Orchestrator. In Midi Tools and add (+) Sustain Pedal. 





I chose channel 1 and done. Works on CC64 sustain pedal.


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## peterharket

EanS said:


> At last at last
> 
> New 1.3.0 Version aaaand,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new Preset Browser and Presets on mass have no idea (were there "Big legato" patches previously?) , but finally is added a Sustain Pedal tool for Orchestrator. In Midi Tools and add (+) Sustain Pedal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose channel 1 and done. Works on CC64 sustain pedal.


​@EanS, how does it work when you lay down a new chord after having “caught” a previous one with the sustain pedal? Does it replace/“legato” to the new chord, or does it stack?


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## peterharket

And does anyone know which microphone positions the orchestrator uses (so I can delete the other ones)?


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## Trax

peterharket said:


> And does anyone know which microphone positions the orchestrator uses (so I can delete the other ones)?


After loading one of the presets, you can click on Play to see what is chosen.


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## Trax

With HOOPUS do you guys still finding yourself having to balance the volume/dynamics of the instruments within themselves (legatos vs staccato)?


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## jamieboo

Trax said:


> With HOOPUS do you guys still finding yourself having to balance the volume/dynamics of the instruments within themselves (legatos vs staccato)?


Absolutely!


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## Trax

jamieboo said:


> Absolutely!


That’s not the answer I wanted. lol. Was hoping for: no it’s all fixed you need to update.


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## jamieboo

Trax said:


> That’s not the answer I wanted. lol. Was hoping for: no it’s all fixed you need to update.


Yeah, I know. It's infuriating. Balancing can be a Sisyphean task at best, but with HO it seems almost wilfully exasperating!


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## odod

1.3.1 is out now


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## EanS

odod said:


> 1.3.1 is out now


Minor fix for Studio One


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## Jaaba

Looking at the Groove3.com's tutorials and the manual I see a MIDI tool called "ChordScales" mentioned, but I cannot find it in my installation. Has it been removed altogether?


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## odod

EanS said:


> Minor fix for Studio One


yet still have Bug here on Mojave, the EW Installation Center still failed to recognize the updated OPUS version


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