# Blood Pressure



## puremusic (Apr 3, 2019)

Anyone here on blood pressure medication?

Curious how folks are handling it, side effects wise, as I've just been put on it last month.

Next I'm supposed to go on Lipitor. Thrilling! :D


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## Dr.Quest (Apr 3, 2019)

I was on lisinopril for many years and it worked great till I developed an allergy to it. Took a few tries to find another that worked. No real problems and I've used them for a long time. Keeps me in a good range. I have had no problem with Lipotor. My *Cholesterol* is now in ideal range although of course exercise and diet helps that as well.


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## puremusic (Apr 3, 2019)

Doctor put me on Toprol XL, probably going to be changing medications tomorrow, after a trip to the ER today for an EKG and chest x-rays due to chest pains and muscle spasms. Not listed in the side effects as far as I can tell, most people seem fine with it as it's very popular, but it didn't work out for me. Great muscle relaxant though, I was even wondering if my piano playing would improve, but them's the breaks.

Great aunt of mine went on Lipitor, had muscle pains, and went off it, as far as I know still is on nothing at all, and rather healthy for a lady in her 90s. 

I am going to have to work hard on improving my diet and exercise, though the doc didn't think it'd help the cholesterol enough unless I was "eating 6 eggs every day".


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## Michel Simons (Apr 3, 2019)

I am also on lisinopril for two years now. The only real side effects I had (until now) were dry coughs. But that was mainly in the beginning. Last year was also an eye-opener when it comes to the effect of stress on blood pressure. I hadn't expected it to be that big.


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## WaveRider (Apr 3, 2019)

Was diagnosed last year and put on Olmestartan. No side effects at all. To improve things, I also stopped eating meat (except fish), limited alcohol and exercise regularly. I had to reduce the dose to half a pill because blood pressure was getting too low. I may be able to stop the drug altogether. Healthy lifestyle seems to be the key.


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## bill5 (Apr 3, 2019)

I was on metoprolol for about a year after a heart attack. No symptoms, at least none directly attributable to the drug. Also on a statin and clopodogril.


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## Divico (Apr 3, 2019)

michelsimons said:


> I am also on lisinopril for two years now. The only real side effects I had (until now) were dry coughs. But that was mainly in the beginning. Last year was also an eye-opener when it comes to the effect of stress on blood pressure. I hadn't expected it to be that big.


interesting that the coughing stopped. Normally the cough is why this group of meds has to be changed to e.g. Sartans.


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## Michel Simons (Apr 3, 2019)

Divico said:


> interesting that the coughing stopped. Normally the cough is why this group of meds has to be changed to e.g. Sartans.



I have to admit that I never mentioned it to my doctor, because it was the least of all the side effects listed.


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## kgdrum (Apr 4, 2019)

@ the OP IMO you should be *THRILLED! *your doctor is trying to keep you healthy and alive.

Years ago people walked around not even aware they had high blood pressure,cholesterol problems etc....no meds etc......
As others have mentioned dietary changes and exercise are important as well.


I have no side effects from the meds I take presently,a previous hbp med I used to take me thirsty all of the time.

I've been a Lisinopril user for several years,it works well(bp is always 120/80) If you are in the USA generic meds via Walmart are very cheap ,I get Lisinopril: 90 days for $10.

I also take Atorvastatin for cholesterol which also works well it's a bit more costly but still reasonably priced.

My brother is a cardiologist he clued me in about Walmart.
Go online print up their available meds w/ prices bring to your Doctor & see what he recommends,it’s saved me a ton of $$$ 

https://www.walmart.com/cp/$4-prescriptions/1078664

Good Luck


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## rollasoc (Apr 4, 2019)

Ask me next week, about to go on some, even though my blood pressure is fine....


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## J-M (Apr 4, 2019)

Not yet, but looking at the medical history on both sides of my family (high blood pressure, heart diseases, all the good stuff) I will probably answer "yes" in a few years. Fast forward about three decades and I'll probably kick the bucket... :D


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## Shredoverdrive (Apr 4, 2019)

I'm both on Amlodipine and Hydrochlorothiazide (these are the molecules names as meds have different names in different countries). Quite satisfied with them although the Hydrochlorothiazide makes you pee like you're a the pub.


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## MartinH. (Apr 4, 2019)

kgdrum said:


> My brother is a cardiologist he clued me in about Walmart.
> Go online print up their available meds w/ prices bring to your Doctor & see what he recommends,it’s saved me a ton of $$$
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/cp/$4-prescriptions/1078664



That's probably the first time I see something medical being cheaper in the US than in Germany. And by a huge margin too!


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## Alex Fraser (Apr 4, 2019)

I await an appointment with the doctor and a decision on meds.
I've cut out booze, caffeine and all the other fun stuff. Can't do much about the "composer life" though..


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## Synetos (Apr 4, 2019)

I have been on them for years. They all tend to mess with my voice. Depending on the cause of your elevated BP, you might get by for a while longer without meds if you can just cut back on salt, and maybe increase your potassium intake. If you like V8 juice, the low sodium version has lots of potassium in it.


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## marclawsonmusic (Apr 4, 2019)

I was on BP medicine for about 4 months in 2011. My BP was 140/100 at a doctor visit. I had gained a lot of weight (was 210 lbs on a 6'0" frame), was drinking too much, and wasn't exercising.

My grandmother was crippled due to a stroke, so at 36 years old, this was a wake up call for me. I decided to make some changes and lost 40 pounds, moderated my drinking and started an exercise routine. My blood pressure went down and I was able to discontinue the drugs.

Don't underestimate the impact of diet and exercise on this problem. We are lucky to have drugs, but for every pound (or kg) you lose, you will reduce BP by 1 point -> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3070038

Good luck


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## novicecomposer (Apr 4, 2019)

Get rid of salt.


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## MartinH. (Apr 4, 2019)

marclawsonmusic said:


> I was on BP medicine for about 4 months in 2011. My BP was 140/100 at a doctor visit. I had gained a lot of weight (was 210 lbs on a 6'0" frame), was drinking too much, and wasn't exercising.
> 
> My grandmother was crippled due to a stroke, so at 36 years old, this was a wake up call for me. I decided to make some changes and lost 40 pounds, moderated my drinking and started an exercise routine. My blood pressure went down and I was able to discontinue the drugs.
> 
> ...



My blood pressure is on the low-ish side, at least when a dr. checks it. I never bought a thing to check myself more regularly, maybe I should. 
Is there anything I can do to raise it other than to get fat? Ideally I'd want to lose weight, not gain more. Also I already consume above average amounts of salt, but I vaguely remember reading a study about salt not even affecting blood pressure for everyone the same way, so I might be immune to that effect, I don't know.


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## Divico (Apr 4, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> My blood pressure is on the low-ish side, at least when a dr. checks it. I never bought a thing to check myself more regularly, maybe I should.
> Is there anything I can do to raise it other than to get fat? Ideally I'd want to lose weight, not gain more. Also I already consume above average amounts of salt, but I vaguely remember reading a study about salt not even affecting blood pressure for everyone the same way, so I might be immune to that effect, I don't know.


Why do you want to raise it?"


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## marclawsonmusic (Apr 4, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> My blood pressure is on the low-ish side, at least when a dr. checks it. I never bought a thing to check myself more regularly, maybe I should.
> Is there anything I can do to raise it other than to get fat? Ideally I'd want to lose weight, not gain more. Also I already consume above average amounts of salt, but I vaguely remember reading a study about salt not even affecting blood pressure for everyone the same way, so I might be immune to that effect, I don't know.



Good question and honestly, I have no idea. Maybe your doctor can offer a suggestion.

I heard from a doctor once that our health is 1/3 genes, 1/3 choices and 1/3 luck. I can't control 2/3 of that equation, so I do my best to manage the 1/3 that is in my control.


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## MartinH. (Apr 4, 2019)

Divico said:


> Why do you want to raise it?"



Because I feel tired and low energy all the time and last time my dr. checked it he said "Nah, it can't be that low, I'll check again... *checks it*, huh, it really is that low". I didn't remember the numbers, because I can't make sense of them anyway, but his reaction was telling.



marclawsonmusic said:


> I heard from a doctor once that our health is 1/3 genes, 1/3 choices and 1/3 luck. I can't control 2/3 of that equation, so I do my best to manage the 1/3 that is in my control.



I heard a dr. on a podcast once say something along the lines of "90% of what people come to me with could be fixed by better diet and more exercise, but if I tell them to do that, they're not coming back, because that's not what they want to hear". 

So yeah, I should probably excercise more, but that's really hard if you're super low energy in the first place...


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## puremusic (Apr 4, 2019)

Getting out in the sunshine and doing some work outdoors helps wake a person up. I have a nice bit of land to work on clearing brush and gardening. I have a slightly slow thyroid, not enough for medication, but that slows me down. Ginseng helps for energy when I need it sometimes but not always.

I am definitely changing diet and losing weight, just had a number of stressful days the past two weeks that put me off it, but I am getting back to it.

Yes I am happy I can see a doctor and all that. Been awhile. Been good to hear people's experiences with different prescriptions.


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## WaveRider (Apr 4, 2019)

novicecomposer said:


> Get rid of salt.



That alone won't do it. On average, reducing salt intake only reduces blood pressure by about 6 - 7 mm Hg.

It needs to be a comprehensive plan that includes more fruits and veggies, less meat, less processed food, little to no alcohol, exercise, and of course no smoking and drugs.


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## chimuelo (Apr 4, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> Because I feel tired and low energy all the time and last time my dr. checked it he said "Nah, it can't be that low, I'll check again... *checks it*, huh, it really is that low". I didn't remember the numbers, because I can't make sense of them anyway, but his reaction was telling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




May I suggest a program that actually made me very healthy inside. I’m very active and kick a bag and play soccer, occasionally ride my bike back up to my house and it’s a major grade.
But trying to maintain my level of activity I’m acusstomed to wore me out and I would have to force myself to do anything.
Isogenix was suggested to me so I did their detox and weight loss 9 week routine.
Dropped the excess 25 pounds I was unaware was dragging me down, and now I try to use 2 meal replacements and two meals everyday.
Detox and fast every Sunday.
I fought the hunger, never fasted before.
But I’m grateful to my friend and I can detox without their products now.
I did about 4 months.

Cost about 750 bucks but it’s your body, pretty sure you think it’s worth the patience and investment.

My blood pressure was always a little high, no need to regulate but now it’s pretty steady at 136/78-86.

If you don’t want to do the program try and read it’s routine and try it out.
Even if you just learn to fast once a week that’s worth the time spent.


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## Divico (Apr 4, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> I heard a dr. on a podcast once say something along the lines of "90% of what people come to me with could be fixed by better diet and more exercise, but if I tell them to do that, they're not coming back, because that's not what they want to hear".


Depends on the "genre". In adult cardiology Id say its true. You see mostly smokers on a bad diet, though not always. Most people pay way too much attention to genetics and not enough to factors they could change.

As to your blood pressure. Thats indeed a reason to do soneting. Could have lots of reasons. I asume your GP was examining you ? iMO you should go and see a specialist.


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## MartinH. (Apr 5, 2019)

chimuelo said:


> Isogenix was suggested to me so I did their detox and weight loss 9 week routine.


Do you mean Is*a*genix? I briefly looked into it, but it looks super shady with about a third of the search results not being about how it works for weight loss, but how you can _sell _it as part of their marketing scheme to earn money from it. 
I appreciate the recommendation, but that thing isn't for me. 

With enough discipline and excercise you can make any diet work. Some even without excercise. I've gone from 73kg to 65kg last year with ketogenic diet and no excercise at all. Now I'm back up to 69kg due to stress eating, but considering it's now months after that diet, I've done zero excercise and don't eat healthy, I've had way less bounce-back than I had expected.

I tried to fast a day, two or three times, but that is hell for me and fucks with my sleep big time. I'm not doing that again. I tried intermittend fasting, but that too is super hard for me. The "one meal a day" thing I wouldn't even be able to pull off for long I think, so I'm not even trying this. This year I was gonna try if I can actually lose weight with some light excercise, but if that doesn't work I can always do the ketogenic diet again, with that I know that it works for me personally. 



Divico said:


> I asume your GP was examining you ? iMO you should go and see a specialist.


Yes, maybe you're right, thanks! I'll look into it.


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## NYC Composer (Apr 9, 2019)

Curious-at what age (if any) would you say “you know what? I’ll take meds and get some exercise but I’m gonna eat and drink what I want, fuck it”?


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## Michel Simons (Apr 9, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Curious-at what age (if any) would you say “you know what? I’ll take meds and get some exercise but I’m gonna eat and drink what I want, fuck it”?



6?


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## Divico (Apr 9, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Curious-at what age (if any) would you say “you know what? I’ll take meds and get some exercise but I’m gonna eat and drink what I want, fuck it”?


If someone goes this way, pls know the consequences. I hate it when patients harm their bodies and expect docs to fix it with meds.
Recebtly I gave this advise: Do what you want but know the consequences and accept them. You smoke ? K, but dont cry when cancer gets you. Also keep in mind your health is not onlh concerning yourself. Treating lung cancer e.g. costs more than all the cigarette taxes a smoker paid his whole life. Not to speak about time spent for them...


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## NYC Composer (Apr 9, 2019)

Divico said:


> If someone goes this way, pls know the consequences. I hate it when patients harm their bodies and expect docs to fix it with meds.
> Recebtly I gave this advise: Do what you want but know the consequences and accept them. You smoke ? K, but dont cry when cancer gets you. Also keep in mind your health is not onlh concerning yourself. Treating lung cancer e.g. costs more than all the cigarette taxes a smoker paid his whole life. Not to speak about time spent for them...


Probably good advice. How old are you?


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## Divico (Apr 9, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Probably good advice. How old are you?


24


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## NYC Composer (Apr 9, 2019)

Divico said:


> 24


I’ll be 65 in August, so I guess it might be fair to say we have different outlooks on this


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## marclawsonmusic (Apr 19, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Curious-at what age (if any) would you say “you know what? I’ll take meds and get some exercise but I’m gonna eat and drink what I want, fuck it”?



I did this for a few years after my divorce. It was great, but I started to suffer health consequences (high blood pressure, water retention, GI / reflux issues) and had to pull back to sanity.

My grandmother said 'fuck it' and ate the sugars even though she was diabetic. Then she had a stroke and couldn't walk anymore without falling over (balance in her brain was whacked). When you can't walk, you lose a lot of freedom, and since she couldn't be left alone, she lived in assisted living / nursing homes for the last 7 years of her life.

She might still be here today if she didn't say 'fuck it'... but maybe the cake was worth it. I dunno...


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## dzilizzi (Apr 19, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> Because I feel tired and low energy all the time and last time my dr. checked it he said "Nah, it can't be that low, I'll check again... *checks it*, huh, it really is that low". I didn't remember the numbers, because I can't make sense of them anyway, but his reaction was telling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Try taking some vitamin D. I was tired all the time also. I live in the desert with lots of sun, but rarely go outside for any length of time and always wear sunscreen. My doctor said to take vitamin D. Works great. 

Though gaining weight and taking birth control pills caused my normally low BP to move into the normal range. I don't think you want to do either of those things.


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## MartinH. (Apr 19, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Try taking some vitamin D. I was tired all the time also. I live in the desert with lots of sun, but rarely go outside for any length of time and always wear sunscreen. My doctor said to take vitamin D. Works great.



Good advice, most of us are deficient in Vitamin D. I had that checked a couple years ago and have been supplementing it since then.


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## NYC Composer (Apr 19, 2019)

marclawsonmusic said:


> My grandmother said 'fuck it' and ate the sugars even though she was diabetic.


Clearly, there are different levels of “fuck it.”

How old was your grandmother when she decided to say it?

(and absolutely true, lack of mobility and independence are no fun at all.)


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## marclawsonmusic (Apr 19, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Clearly, there are different levels of “fuck it.”
> 
> How old was your grandmother when she decided to say it?
> 
> (and absolutely true, lack of mobility and independence are no fun at all.)



I am not sure there was a specific moment. I get the impression she did not take care of herself.

I do understand your perspective. I honestly don't know how I will feel when I get older. Right now, it seems the older I get, the more I exercise, the more I eat healthier, etc. Maybe I am afraid of my mortality... I don't think I will ever give up alcohol, but I did switch to wine... so now I am just a snobby drunk.


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## NYC Composer (Apr 19, 2019)

Marc, you and I, being friendly, could discuss this more privately, but I think it’s important enough to put it out there.

Clarity-at almost 65, I try to average 4-5 miles a day of fairly strenuous walking-huffing and puffing up steep hills and inclines. I see my doctor (s) regularly for various maladies. I take medications (too many). Still, sometimes I’ll have fries or chips. I’m addicted to popcorn but keep it in check and try to eat the healthiest kind. I have an occasional dessert.

I like Irish whiskey and martinis. I’m not the alcoholic I once was but I still drink too much. In general, I try not to go overboard but try not to deny myself that much either. Middle of the road really-“fuck it...kinda.”


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## Leon Portelance (Apr 19, 2019)

I will be 65 in August. My blood pressure is fine as long as I don’t read the off-topic politician forum.


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## NYC Composer (Apr 19, 2019)

Which day


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## Leon Portelance (Apr 19, 2019)

August 22


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## marclawsonmusic (Apr 27, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Marc, you and I, being friendly, could discuss this more privately, but I think it’s important enough to put it out there.
> 
> Clarity-at almost 65, I try to average 4-5 miles a day of fairly strenuous walking-huffing and puffing up steep hills and inclines. I see my doctor (s) regularly for various maladies. I take medications (too many). Still, sometimes I’ll have fries or chips. I’m addicted to popcorn but keep it in check and try to eat the healthiest kind. I have an occasional dessert.
> 
> I like Irish whiskey and martinis. I’m not the alcoholic I once was but I still drink too much. In general, I try not to go overboard but try not to deny myself that much either. Middle of the road really-“fuck it...kinda.”



Sorry for the late reply, but yes it's an important topic! I didn't learn about health and that choices=consequences until I was well into adulthood, so I have tried to raise my kids' awareness about that as much as I could.

In terms of saying 'fuck it'... you don't sound so far off the rails, Larry! And if your numbers are good, who cares? My biggest 'number' concerns are blood pressure and cholesterol - those have given me trouble in the past. More recently, I learned I had low thyroid hormone, so now I take a pill for that. It helps with mental clarity and sluggish metabolism.

Anyway, I have learned the reason people talk more about health as they age is because shit starts to break!


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## NYC Composer (Apr 27, 2019)

I have a saying-when getting together with people my age or older, I let a few minutes of personal health talk go by, wait for a break, and then say:

“and THIS...is what old people talk about!”


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## bill5 (Apr 28, 2019)

WaveRider said:


> That alone won't do it. On average, reducing salt intake only reduces blood pressure by about 6 - 7 mm Hg.
> 
> It needs to be a comprehensive plan that includes more fruits and veggies, less meat, less processed food, little to no alcohol, exercise, and of course no smoking and drugs.


Less "meat" (I assume you mean beef?) and less "processed food" (depending how you define it) is a good idea in general, but not likely to decrease blood pressure. 




Divico said:


> If someone goes this way, pls know the consequences. I hate it when patients harm their bodies and expect docs to fix it with meds.
> Recebtly I gave this advise: Do what you want but know the consequences and accept them. You smoke ? K, but dont cry when cancer gets you. Also keep in mind your health is not onlh concerning yourself. Treating lung cancer e.g. costs more than all the cigarette taxes a smoker paid his whole life. Not to speak about time spent for them...


....and these are the people who typically cry when their health care isn't free. Ditto people who stuff their faces with soda and fast food a lot. (etc)


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## NYC Composer (Apr 28, 2019)

bill5 said:


> Less "meat" (I assume you mean beef?) and less "processed food" (depending how you define it) is a good idea in general, but not likely to decrease blood pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> ....and these are the people who typically cry when their health care isn't free. Ditto people who stuff their faces with soda and fast food a lot. (etc)



You know who I hate? Those people with Type 1 diabetes...you know, childhood diabetes. Whiners. And those kids with leukemia! Their parents should be sold into slavery to pay hospitals back! 

Whiners, whiners, whiners.

Btw, why is EVERY FUCKING THING political these days??


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## dzilizzi (Apr 28, 2019)

bill5 said:


> Less "meat" (I assume you mean beef?) and less "processed food" (depending how you define it) is a good idea in general, but not likely to decrease blood pressure.


Actually, processed food in general has high sodium content, which is considered a contributor to high blood pressure. So its usually best to cut back if high blood pressure is a problem. 

And? Even my thin mother eventually had high blood pressure in her late 70's/80's. I was told as you age, the arterial walls get thinner or something.


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## Divico (Apr 29, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Actually, processed food in general has high sodium content, which is considered a contributor to high blood pressure. So its usually best to cut back if high blood pressure is a problem.
> 
> And? Even my thin mother eventually had high blood pressure in her late 70's/80's. I was told as you age, the arterial walls get thinner or something.


not thinner. Harder. The thing with bad nutrition is, you font have to be fat. You can have screwed up cholesterine and be perfectly thin.


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## dzilizzi (Apr 29, 2019)

Divico said:


> not thinner. Harder. The thing with bad nutrition is, you font have to be fat. You can have screwed up cholesterine and be perfectly thin.


She never had cholesterol problems that I knew of and ate fairly healthy, except her glass of wine or two a night. She just didn't survive that third bout of cancer.


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## KarlHeinz (Apr 29, 2019)

Just a little advice I would like to throw in from my Tai-Chi master:


> Take care about your best friend. He is the only one who is there for you your whole life. When not mother or girlfriend is there, he always takes care of you. But if you dont care about him at all he is getting tired someday.



I dont do this enough (still, sigh....), but I think it is really the only Point of view you have to take in account to get thins done much healthier: would you REALLY do this to your best friend ?

It is one of this easy things (like the book from Mother Theresa called "The easy way") that is so hard to do, but that dont change the core of it: it IS an easy way, you dont need anything for it apart of some attentiveness.

I say "fuck it" still far to many times but at least begin to realize (the next morning for example  ): do I feel better now ? Did I really need this ?

I am 56 now and still want to try to get rid of my blood pressure medicaments. Last time it took me only 2 years, this time it will be harder of course. But its ME and no one else just disregarding his best friend still too many times....


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## bill5 (Apr 30, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Actually, processed food in general has high sodium content, which is considered a contributor to high blood pressure. So its usually best to cut back if high blood pressure is a problem.


Again, define "processed food." Most of the food you buy is processed in some way or other. If you simply mean those frozen meals, yes, many of them (but not all) are high in salt, and fat, and sugar. ugh. But some of them aren't. It's all in reading the labels.




dzilizzi said:


> She never had cholesterol problems that I knew of and ate fairly healthy, except her glass of wine or two a night. She just didn't survive that third bout of cancer.


? "Except?" A glass or 2 of wine a night is healthy. Or so the experts say. They will probably change their minds in a year or 3.


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## dzilizzi (May 1, 2019)

I see what you are saying and when you get down to it every food is processed in some way. Even things like fresh tomatoes. They've altered the plants so they grow consistent products because that what people want to see. And they lose a lot of flavor and vitamins doing it. 

But generally when saying processed foods, I think of lunch meats, heat and eat meals, and things like that. Though I suppose there are healthy options, they still aren't better than making it from scratch.


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## WaveRider (May 1, 2019)

The "bad" processed foods are things like crackers, chips, pizza, baked goods, basically any food that comes in a package that you can buy in the middle isles of your grocery store. You'd be surprised how much sodium is in these foods. Even certain breakfast cereals marketed as healthy are loaded with sodium.

Meat -- including beef, chicken, pig, turkey etc. is loaded with saturated fat and cholesterol. If you eat it for lunch and dinner every day it will eventually clog your arteries. Clogged arteries will raise your blood pressure.


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## Michel Simons (May 1, 2019)

bill5 said:


> ? "Except?" A glass or 2 of wine a night is healthy. Or so the experts say. They will probably change their minds in a year or 3.



I believe they already have.


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## bill5 (May 1, 2019)

WaveRider said:


> The "bad" processed foods are things like crackers, chips, pizza, baked goods, basically any food that comes in a package that you can buy in the middle isles of your grocery store.


Sorry, not true. Or at least a huge oversimplification. Crackers for example vary a great deal in nutrition, including sodium content. They are not inherently "bad" by any means. In fact numerous brands of crackers have a low sodium option. And labeling bad "any food that comes in a package that you can buy in the middle isles of your grocery store" is absurd. Again, one needs to read the labels vs painting things with a broad brushstroke.



> Meat -- including beef, chicken, pig, turkey etc. is loaded with saturated fat and cholesterol. If you eat it for lunch and dinner every day it will eventually clog your arteries.


This is also incorrect or at least a serious oversimplification. Chicken and turkey in particular are quite lean and as for beef there's a huge difference between a fast food burger and a lean cut of steak. As with anything, it's a question of how much you eat and how you prepare it. A good diet is about balance, moderation, and common sense.


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## WaveRider (May 2, 2019)

From now on, please submit all health and nutrition questions to *bill5. *He knows more about the subject than any dietician or doctor. If you know anything about health and wellness, you are wrong, and he is right.

And here's another tip kids -- smoking is not bad, it's just about balance, moderation, and common sense.


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## Rv5 (May 2, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Marc, you and I, being friendly, could discuss this more privately, but I think it’s important enough to put it out there.
> 
> Clarity-at almost 65, I try to average 4-5 miles a day of fairly strenuous walking-huffing and puffing up steep hills and inclines. I see my doctor (s) regularly for various maladies. I take medications (too many). Still, sometimes I’ll have fries or chips. I’m addicted to popcorn but keep it in check and try to eat the healthiest kind. I have an occasional dessert.
> 
> I like Irish whiskey and martinis. I’m not the alcoholic I once was but I still drink too much. In general, I try not to go overboard but try not to deny myself that much either. Middle of the road really-“fuck it...kinda.”



Well, I f*ckin' love ya, so you'd best be on good form to hear me whine about romantic woes on my next visit.


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## marclawsonmusic (May 2, 2019)

WaveRider said:


> From now on, please submit all health and nutrition questions to *bill5. *He knows more about the subject than any dietician or doctor. If you know anything about health and wellness, you are wrong, and he is right.
> 
> And here's another tip kids -- smoking is not bad, it's just about balance, moderation, and common sense.



From this thread, I get the impression that bill5 just wants to argue. If he is going to put that much energy into defending crackers, he must have an axe to grind.


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## NYC Composer (May 2, 2019)

Rv5 said:


> Well, I f*ckin' love ya, so you'd best be on good form to hear me whine about romantic woes on my next visit.


Love back atcha, and my ear is open for romantic travails (for about 15 min, then I’ll need a drink).


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## bill5 (May 2, 2019)

WaveRider said:


> From now on, please submit all health and nutrition questions to *bill5. *He knows more about the subject than any dietician or doctor. If you know anything about health and wellness, you are wrong, and he is right.


 So instead of owning up to making a mistake or backing your inaccurate "facts," you instead decide to have a hissy and make childish snide comments. Speaks for itself.

Excuse the hell out of me for pointing out that what you posted was wrong, but given the importance of the information, I felt it was merited. Perhaps you should actually get a clue before posting incorrect information. Let me guess, you're into homeopathy too 



> And here's another tip kids -- smoking is not bad, it's just about balance, moderation, and common sense.


Given your track record, I'm hardly surprised you posted that either.


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## bill5 (May 2, 2019)

marclawsonmusic said:


> From this thread, I get the impression that bill5 just wants to argue. If he is going to put that much energy into defending crackers, he must have an axe to grind.


Yeah that must be it. It couldn't be that what I said is simply correct and I think posting false health and nutrition information on the net is irresponsible and should be called out and corrected, since someone might be naive or foolish enough to believe that false information and it could be detrimental to their health.

I'm also hardly surprised that neither of you have anything to back up such silly claims as "crackers are bad" or "meat is bad." Good ol ad hominems.


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## Studio E (May 2, 2019)

Also recommended for better blood pressure; Not engaging in online arguments.

Here in America, I can speak for what I see. When I am out in public, over half of us are grossly overweight and most just seem to accept it. When I go to the grocery store, and look at the total shit people buy to feed themselves, it’s no wonder.

I have been mostly healthy but developed A-fib at an early age. That scared me into (for the most part) staying in shape. I managed to quit smoking around 30 and have had an on again off again relationship with exercise. 

Now at 50, I’ve joined a running club and hike regularly as well as doing resistance training. I make a smoothie if fruits, vegetables, and vegan protein every day to start the day. I don’t eat almost anything that comes in a box. At the very least, foods like that are kept to a minimum. 

Slow but steady and small changes over time can make a big difference. The big ones are don’t smoke, limit processed foods in general, and get good, regular exercise. If you need the meds, by all means take them, at least until your lifestyle can take over if ever. 

It’s really not that hard to make incremental change and turn it into habit. Then just up the bar again and again. Your body will thank you.


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## marclawsonmusic (May 2, 2019)

bill5 said:


> Yeah that must be it. It couldn't be that what I said is simply correct and I think posting false health and nutrition information on the net is irresponsible and should be called out and corrected, since someone might be naive or foolish enough to believe that false information and it could be detrimental to their health.
> 
> I'm also hardly surprised that neither of you have anything to back up such silly claims as "crackers are bad" or "meat is bad." Good ol ad hominems.



Hi Bill! I didn’t come here to argue with you.

I just wanted to give my perspective as someone who struggled with blood pressure in the past and eventually overcame it. Most of my blood pressure issues were due to my poor life choices and I think the advice offered here isn’t so bad! 

Avoiding processed foods and red meats is a great prescription for good blood pressure and health! If you want evidence, speak to the people in the Mediterranean regions where they avoid these things and live long happy lives. 

Cheers and best wishes. For our health!
Marc


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## WaveRider (May 3, 2019)

bill5 said:


> what I said is simply correct and I think posting false health and nutrition information on the net is irresponsible and should be called out and corrected, since someone might be naive or foolish enough to believe that false information and it could be detrimental to their health.



Yeah just imagine if someone took my advice and stopped eating crackers and meat. I'm sure the consequences would have been dire, if not life threatening.

Btw, if anyone's interested, a great read is Dean Ornish's "Reversing Heart Disease"

I tried it for a year and it worked -- my blood pressure and cholesterol reduced significantly. Even if you don't have heart disease, it's a good preventative measure.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 3, 2019)

marclawsonmusic said:


> Avoiding processed foods and red meats is a great prescription for good blood pressure and health!



You got that right, I also know this from experience. North Americans have a terrible selection of "food". Its simple...cut out processed foods, eat lean meat, and anything that has added sodium. Works like a charm! I lost 40lbs and got my blood pressure down to where it's supposed to be. Took a few months, but it actually works.


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## dzilizzi (May 3, 2019)

Sugar/sweeteners are also something to try to stay away from that are in a lot of things. Don't know if it affects blood pressure so much as triglycerides, which affects your overall cholesterol levels. It gets hidden in a lot of foods. 

Bill5 is right about one thing, reading labels is important if you are concerned about your health. I realize most food is processed in some way before we get it in our markets, but most of us understand what is meant by "processed foods being not good for you" doesn't include the fact that your chicken comes cut up and packaged on a tray. Otherwise boneless/skinless chicken breasts would be bad for your diet, not the usual recommended food for getting healthier.


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## Michel Simons (May 3, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Bill5 is right about one thing, reading labels is important if you are concerned about your health. I realize most food is processed in some way before we get it in our markets, but most of us understand what is meant by "processed foods being not good for you" doesn't include the fact that your chicken comes cut up and packaged on a tray. Otherwise boneless/skinless chicken breasts would be bad for your diet, not the usual recommended food for getting healthier.



And not engaging in online arguments, as Eric said, helps as well. Or in general avoiding stress-inducing "activities" as much as possible (which, of course, is easier said than done).


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 3, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Sugar/sweeteners are also something to try to stay away from that are in a lot of things.



That is actually scary. Not sure they still list it as such, but Kraft salad dressings (to name one company) add propylene glycol for both a sweetener and preservative.


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## dzilizzi (May 3, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> That is actually scary. Not sure they still list it as such, but Kraft salad dressings (to name one company) add propylene glycol for both a sweetener and preservative.


The FDA lists small amounts of propylene glycol as generally safe for consumption. It is in a lot of flavors as well. It shouldn't be confused with ethylene glycol which is not safe to ingest. And? We eat a lot of chemicals we don't know we are eating. I think in the long run we will either be very well preserved or dead from strange diseases that suddenly start showing up.


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## NYC Composer (May 6, 2019)

My kid was addicted to that Diet Mountain Dew crap which had brominated oil in it, also used as a flame retardant for plastics. I pestered him until he stopped (he was 24, it wasn’t easy.)


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