# How important is a real orchestra



## choc0thrax (Aug 16, 2005)

I hear a lot of crappy demos on forums and I often wonder if some of them would be a lot better if done with a real orchestra. I wonder if any idiot with a real orchestra and some orchestrators could come up with a not too bad score. Someone on IRC recently directed me to Matrix Online clips on Don Davis' site. Don composed them but without a real orchestra. If I heard these clips say on NS by some random forum member i'd think ughhhhh, that sounds pretty crappy. Anyways here are the clips from his site-

http://dondavis.filmmusic.com/media/matrixonline/matrixonline_2.mp3 (http://dondavis.filmmusic.com/media/mat ... line_2.mp3)

http://dondavis.filmmusic.com/media/matrixonline/matrixonline_3.mp3 (http://dondavis.filmmusic.com/media/mat ... line_3.mp3)

http://dondavis.filmmusic.com/media/matrixonline/matrixonline_4.mp3 (http://dondavis.filmmusic.com/media/mat ... line_4.mp3)

http://dondavis.filmmusic.com/media/matrixonline/matrixonline_1.mp3 (http://dondavis.filmmusic.com/media/mat ... line_1.mp3)


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## José Herring (Aug 16, 2005)

I haven't heard the clips yet but I'll comment.

Working with real players and writing for sample players are different skills. I find that in my transition from live to samples I've had to complete learn to write like a different person.

I'd say that about 75% of the Matrix scores could never be attempted with samples. Just the legato 16th notes in the bassoons and cello in the opening theme alone would be an impossible nightmare.

Now Don Davis is notoriously silly about trying to do everything himself. If me in his position I would have at least a couple of guys doing midi mock ups for me. As I understand it he tried to score it, mock it up and then orchestrate it all on his own. Well thank God that only his midi mockup chops are lame.

Jose


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## José Herring (Aug 16, 2005)

Okay I listen to a few of the clips through my headphones. I'll give a better listen tomorrow.

All I have to say, bad mock-up and all music is still slammin'. Listen to those thick ass well balanced brass chords. Listen to those well thought out string lines. Listen to those tight ass hits. Shyte is bad assss mo'fo. Who cares about his midi mockup abilities. He's got the real thing baby!

Jose


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## choc0thrax (Aug 16, 2005)

I dunno I still think it sounds like crap. Although I think #4 would probably sound good with a real orchestra.


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## Evan Gamble (Aug 16, 2005)

yeah..keep in mind that those samples are prolly the samples that are engrained in the game perhaps. They arent his,...maybe?


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## John Perkins (Aug 16, 2005)

From John Adams' new opera, Doctor Atomic...

http://www.doctor-atomic.com/opera.html

Click on the music menu on the left hand side for four MIDI mockups he did.

John


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## José Herring (Aug 16, 2005)

John Perkins said:


> From John Adams' new opera, Doctor Atomic...
> 
> http://www.doctor-atomic.com/opera.html
> 
> ...



Now that's laughable. I doubt that that would sound even that good live. Except for the ww lines sound pretty cool. Now the part where the choir comes in(represented by the piano) would actually sound really cool live.

But I can't believe that they put this up as a demo to try and sell tickets. I should call them and offer my sevices.

Jose


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## Evan Gamble (Aug 16, 2005)

sounds like GPO


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## John Perkins (Aug 16, 2005)

josejherring said:


> John Perkins said:
> 
> 
> > From John Adams' new opera, Doctor Atomic...
> ...



As one of the foremost composers on the contemporary scene (and definitely the most programmed of American composers in the world), you can bet it WILL sound good live... not that he can't write some bad stuff... I saw the New York premiere of The Dharma At Big Sur and was not impressed.

But check out Harmonielehre (the Simon Rattle recording is really good) and imagine what his 1980s mockup for that might have sounded like.

John


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## José Herring (Aug 16, 2005)

I'm niether here nor there with John Adams. He is one of the most programmed composers these days but that's not saying much considering the level of talent of the people that do get programmed in the modern day concert areana.

I'm much more of a Corrigliano type man. More true grit and intelligence with real composition and orchestration chops. I find the svengali effect that Johh Adams has not that appealing. Though from time to time he does have a few remarkable passages in his pieces. Which certainly makes it worth the wait. Though I loose quite a bit of patience in that wait.

But I shouldn't be too critical. To each his own. I just find him to be one of the composers people like because they're suppose to rather than actually finding any personal spiritual connection with his pieces.

Jose


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## choc0thrax (Aug 16, 2005)

I don't know who John Adams is but do they really play his music with an orchestra? Of course Philip Glass gets his stuff done with real orchestra so I guess anythings possible.


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## fictionmusic (Aug 16, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> I don't know who John Adams is but do they really play his music with an orchestra? Of course Philip Glass gets his stuff done with real orchestra so I guess anythings possible.



http://www.newmusicbox.org/article.nmbx?id=1050 (John Adams)

http://www.newmusicbox.org/article.nmbx?id=1510 (Phillip Glass)

http://www.newmusicbox.org/ar.nmbx (tons more composers)


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## Evan Gamble (Aug 16, 2005)

Im with you On corigliano Jose! Hes a fav of mine, him and his students


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## José Herring (Aug 16, 2005)

Damn, did you see that picture of Corigliano. http://www.newmusicbox.org/article.nmbx?id=4024 

I hadn't seen him since I played the clarinet part in his piano concerto no.1 back in 1993.

:o He turned into an old man. He use to be slim and trim and young and hip. That means that I must be getting old too. :cry: 

Jose


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## choc0thrax (Aug 16, 2005)

Fictionmusicthanks for the links... I only went to Goldenthals page and watched the 8 cool videos with him. I like when he says 85% of music that comes out is garbage.


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## fictionmusic (Aug 17, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> Fictionmusicthanks for the links... I only went to Goldenthals page and watched the 8 cool videos with him. I like when he says 85% of music that comes out is garbage.



You are welcome! Its an excellent site. 

Check out

http://www.newmusicbox.org/article.nmbx?id=4067 (Piano Ensemble). 

Maybe its garbage too but I think its really cool nevertheless.


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## Evan Gamble (Aug 17, 2005)

josejherring said:


> Damn, did you see that picture of Corigliano. http://www.newmusicbox.org/article.nmbx?id=4024
> 
> I hadn't seen him since I played the clarinet part in his piano concerto no.1 back in 1993.
> 
> ...



yeah now his student eric whitacre is the young and hip man
http://www.newmusicbox.org/article.nmbx?id=3991


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## handz (Aug 17, 2005)

WOW midi mockups of Adams! I must listen that.

I think that live orchestra improve piece a lot I was on GPO contest concert and listended also to the original GPO mp3 - it is a BIIIIG difference...


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## John Perkins (Aug 17, 2005)

josejherring said:


> I'm niether here nor there with John Adams. He is one of the most programmed composers these days but that's not saying much considering the level of talent of the people that do get programmed in the modern day concert areana.
> 
> I'm much more of a Corrigliano type man. More true grit and intelligence with real composition and orchestration chops. I find the svengali effect that Johh Adams has not that appealing. Though from time to time he does have a few remarkable passages in his pieces. Which certainly makes it worth the wait. Though I loose quite a bit of patience in that wait.
> 
> ...



Yes, definitely to each his own. I like Adams, but not as much as people like Kaija Saariaho, Witold Lutoslawski and Gyorgy Ligeti.

If you heard Saariaho's "mock ups", basically where everything is played from Finale with a cheap piano sound, you'd probably also think that her music wouldn't sound good live. But she is one of the most sophisticated composers around, not with just acoustic intruments, but with electronic. Like many composers who get their works realized in the way they really want them to be, she doesn't focus on creating a realistic mockup. And frankly, with her very personal way of writing instrumental phrases (just check out some of her music for cello), there would be no way to do it any way. John Adams doesn't have to create a realistic mockup, but I agree with you that I would never let these escape my studio if I were him.

John


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## Herman Witkam (Aug 17, 2005)

John Perkins said:


> But she is one of the most sophisticated composers around, not with just acoustic intruments, but with electronic. Like many composers who get their works realized in the way they really want them to be, she doesn't focus on creating a realistic mockup. And frankly, with her very personal way of writing instrumental phrases (just check out some of her music for cello), there would be no way to do it any way.



I've heard one of her soundscapes (can't recall the title). I missed a music festival this year where one of her operas (L'amour de Loin) was being performed by the Finnish Opera Orchestra. I've heard it was great. What Saariaho pieces can you recommend besides the cello works?


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## choc0thrax (Aug 17, 2005)

Waywyn said:


> hmm to add my two cents,
> i think don davis doesn't really have to care about setting velocities and other midi commands, because it is just a structure and layout plan for him to work.
> 
> so the mockup could be as bad as hell, who cares, he recorded it with real orchestra anyway. as long as the midi stuff didn't make it into any production etc. it is fine
> ...



You're saying that these tracks done with samples were redone with orchestra for the matrix online? I doubt that.


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## Waywyn (Aug 17, 2005)

oh, i got something wrong maybe ... so you are saying that these are the official ingame tracks for the game? ... umph... if so, davis looses some points here. it could have done better ...


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## choc0thrax (Aug 17, 2005)

Although it's not like anyone plays the matrix online anyways, not many will have to hear this.


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## José Herring (Aug 17, 2005)

I know that he got a lot of pressure to go more electronica for the 2nd Matrix. I haven't hear that score yet. Could these be from that movie?

Also, I ran the tracks through some additional reverb and it sounded much better(except for that 3rd one. I don't think there's any helping that one.)

Jose


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## synergy543 (Aug 17, 2005)

fictionmusic said:


> Check out
> 
> http://www.newmusicbox.org/article.nmbx?id=4067 (Piano Ensemble).
> 
> Maybe its garbage too but I think its really cool nevertheless.


Thanks David Very interesting indeed. They should make a sample library. 8)


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## Evan Gamble (Aug 17, 2005)

I say give davis a break hes been working on the matrix for the past 6 years..Im sure he just shit these tracks out


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 17, 2005)

Sorry if it's uncool to feel this way, but I really like Don Davis' music in Matrix Reloaded. It works very well, and it's just extremely exciting. And unique - he uses all kinds of things, including minimalism.


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## Scott Cairns (Aug 17, 2005)

Me too, I think that anytime you can hear a composers music and know exactly who created it, its a huge accomplishment.

Don Davis created a signature sound. Not too many composers can claim that.


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## choc0thrax (Aug 17, 2005)

Speaking of Don Davis I really want his Unsaid score.


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## Niah (Aug 17, 2005)

josejherring said:


> I know that he got a lot of pressure to go more electronica for the 2nd Matrix. I haven't hear that score yet. Could these be from that movie?
> 
> Also, I ran the tracks through some additional reverb and it sounded much better(except for that 3rd one. I don't think there's any helping that one.)
> 
> Jose



Well yea. Matrix reloaded and revolutions are two films completely apart from the original matrix, I don't know that the hell they were thinking.
In reloaded and rev, Don worked with Juno Reactor. He would do a couple of mockups on an old workstation and send it to Juno Reactor. The main goal was not about producing but a small sketch to see what direction things were taking and to better mix the work of the two composers in order for them not to clash in end.


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## José Herring (Aug 17, 2005)

That's interesting Naih.

I know from a well established buddy that knows Don Davis rather well that Davis was fighting the transition from a mostly orchestral score to the electronica highbread.

Davis was receiving an enormous amount of pressure from Warner Brothers to produce a score that was more "hip" in their eyes. 

I then also heard from a source who works in the music dept at WB that the CD sales for Reloaded tanked in comparison to the first Matrix. 

I'll have to check out Reloaded and Revelations to see the difference in the two scores if there is any.

But anyway Don Davis was extremly pissed at the change of direction. It's too bad. The first movie was a relatively independent film with studio money. Then it became a hit and the corporate clowns hijacked the movies.

Hollywood. :roll: 

Jose


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## Waywyn (Aug 18, 2005)

you know the problem about all this matrix stuff is, that the brothers who created the story already knew the whole story.

this trilogy was originally a comic which has to be released, something like anime stuff etc. but they figured that the story or the whole happening is just too big for a comic trilogy. so they decided to do the movies.

when they produced and finished the first matrix movie i am 100% they already knew what was going to come next, but the people didn't.

they (and me too) saw the movie, thought that this is one of the best films ever, because of the weird and fresh story (well you really don't know if its true or not ) ... but when the other two were released, they came back from the more realistic happing into the "anime world".

so concerning the music in the movies don davis did a really great job and he influenced me so much, but what choco posted about the matrix online stuff really dissapointed me.
it would have been better if he created the music and a pro mocker would do the track with samples, but i think this is once more the fact that a pro-orchestral guy thinks he can easily handle some stupid little samples


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## choc0thrax (Aug 18, 2005)

Maybe Don Davis has no ears and can't tell the difference between his stuff with real orch and what he did with samples. 8)


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## Waywyn (Aug 18, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> Maybe Don Davis has no ears and can't tell the difference between his stuff with real orch and what he did with samples. 8)



like Beethoven at the end


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## Niah (Aug 18, 2005)

PaulR said:


> Niah said:
> 
> 
> > Well yea. Matrix reloaded and revolutions are two films completely apart from the original matrix, I don't know that the hell they were thinking.
> ...



Correct, I didn't buy that whole trilogy thing for a second. I mean, first they make a movie in 1999 and then after a huge success they start talking about it (yea, it's a trilogy folks so don't worry more is coming) and make two films at once to be released in 2003. Very suspicious.
Also the new films didn't feel like they were a bridge or a continuation of the original movie, it feels more like they were making up facts on the moment, and it feels more like a TV-mini series matrix.
I also don't understand why most people think that the original matrix is incomplete based on the ending, for it's a very typical ending, you have defeated the bad guys but the fighting never ends. But there's no need to see another zillion martial-arts combat fights with mr.smith and neo, is it?? Why oh why rel and rev? Why?


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## PaulR (Aug 18, 2005)

Niah said:


> Very suspicious.
> Also the new films didn't feel like they were a bridge or a continuation of the original movie, it feels more like they were making up facts on the moment, and it feels more like a TV-mini series matrix.
> But there's no need to see another zillion martial-arts combat fights with mr.smith and neo, is it?? Why oh why rel and rev? Why?



That's right - and of course in the history of film making is nothing new. Generally, sequels don't really work - for instance, at the start of the sixties you get things like The Magnificent Seven - brilliant on all levels of the genre - and the music!!! At first, this film was a big flop in America - it showed in Europe, became a big hit and went back to America where they then took to it. Big box office and a great film. I know - lets make some more. Oh dear! Bye bye magic.

Your TV analogy is an interesting one because there is a world of difference between a 'series' and a 'serial'.

The Indiana Jones films would be construed as a series and work quite well withinn their genre- whereas The Matrix doesn't seem to know whether it's one thing or another in it's continuation - and as you say - why bother. Magic gone. Too late.

2001 and then 2010 - serial. Doesn't really cut it though on the second one does it - magic not available second time around. Never is.

Adios Muchachos.


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## Thonex (Aug 18, 2005)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Sorry if it's uncool to feel this way, but I really like Don Davis' music in Matrix Reloaded. It works very well, and it's just extremely exciting. And unique - he uses all kinds of things, including minimalism.



I liked it in the movie (which is really what it boils down to), but I wouldn't use the Matrix score as a yardstick for production quality or Orchestral slam factor. I like the ear candy and the blend of orchestral and techno... but if I have to A/B my stuff to get it sounding good, I'll use J Williams or John Debney (or the likes) for orchestra and BT's Emotional Technology for the techno/ear candy stuff.

My opinion.

T


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 18, 2005)

The music itself, Dr. Thonex. That's what I like.



> Generally, sequels don't really work



I guess the exception that proves the rule is Godfather III, which I just stayed up too late watching the other night.


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## PaulR (Aug 18, 2005)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I guess the exception that proves the rule is Godfather III, which I just stayed up too late watching the other night.



Yes - that's a good sequence of films definitely. In general though.......

I'm amazed you got that one Nick - given your recent record. 

:twisted: :D


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## Evan Gamble (Aug 18, 2005)

Folmann said:


> Williams is credited as composer on over 250 films starting from 1950. If you truly believe that he writes 5 fully orchestrated scores pr. year, including a large bulk of personal pieces, you have to think twice. A good example is the last HP movie. The two most talented Hollywood orchestrators were credited on it (as they were on Jurassic Park, A.I., StarWars 1,2,3, HP-series and others). Don?t you find it a little strange that JW needed two orchestrators, when he had already done "95%" of his works? Ofcourse you don?t.



JW is god he can do whatever he wants 8)


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 18, 2005)

No Scott, I'm definitely not into that recipe.


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## Scott Rogers (Aug 18, 2005)

..........


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## Scott Rogers (Aug 18, 2005)

..........


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## choc0thrax (Aug 18, 2005)

If you agree that Williams is a god what makes you think he can't do that many scores?


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## José Herring (Aug 18, 2005)

Folmann said:


> Conrad Pope and Eddie Karam, not John Williams.



I went to school with Eddie's son Sam Karam. So I know Eddie's position in life really well through Sam. Sam pretty much confirms that his dad gave up being a composer and turned exclusively towards arranging after he heard a John Williams session in the '70's. Quote from Eddie was, "this guys gonna take all the work in town". Shortly after John did.

I really don't think that Conrad or Eddie have the compositional chops to pose as John Williams. It's a stretch. Maybe they did some serious arranging of some of the earlier themes leaving John Williams freed up to develop new material. It seems like that's what's more probable. 

Jose


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## Scott Cairns (Aug 18, 2005)

Ive never heard of anyone ghost writing for JW. But as for someone else orchestrating, why not? He's an old man, perhaps he has a life outside music these days.

He has more than proved his abilities, he's like an aging CEO, create the initial idea and delegate away I say. 8)


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## Scott Rogers (Aug 18, 2005)

..........


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## José Herring (Aug 18, 2005)

Scott,

I'm not saying he's handing out lead sheets. I'm saying that after a hard years work is it so hard to believe that he goes to his orchestrators and says, "lookie here guys. I just finished 70 minutes of music for the last Harry Potter. Now they want me to do another one. Okay, I'm takin' the gig, but you see all these themes I wrote for the first one. Put them here, here and here and I'll concentrate on the new stuff here. Then we'll get together on the date."

Though I'm not going as far as Folmann is implying, I will say that writing the same stuff again will drive any composer mad. I know I particularly don't like it when some film guy temps my music into his film. I then have to rewrite something that I've already written which quite frankly I haven't been that great at. A lot of times I've moved so far past it I've forgetten what I was doing back 2 years ago.

I'm sure it's the same for JW. So he takes a few themes from the last movie hands the score over to an orchestrators/arranger and says,"arrange these to fit this scene." Remember, before he was John Williams the superstar composer, he was Johnny Williams the superstar arranger/orchestrator.

I personally don't see the harm in getting somebody else to arrange your scores to fit a new film that's part of the same franchise.

But, don't get me wrong Scott. I know that he does do his own stuff. Just it's not hard for me to believe that of the stuff that he's already done that he gets a little help to arrange it to fit new scenes in a franchised movie.

Jose

btw Fol. I know composers who do 6 to 7 major Hollywood films a year back to back and who write every note in every score. So I don't think that it's that impossible. We're talking a score every 2 months. If you can't do that then you're in the wrong game for sure.


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## Evan Gamble (Aug 19, 2005)

its why hes god...


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## Jon Paouli Trapek (Aug 19, 2005)

Scott Cairns said:


> PaulR said:
> 
> 
> > ...English children sound like they've got a ton of brussel sprouts rammed up their backsides....
> ...



Yep....that sounds like the English boarding school I remember.


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## Scott Rogers (Aug 19, 2005)

..........


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## fictionmusic (Aug 19, 2005)

I used to sketch out full score parts on 2 or 3 staffs (I called them conductor scores), and also used to copy tons of big-band charts and extract 3 stave conductor scores from them. In both cases all the orchestrations were there on the 3 part conductor score (in concert though).

I have a link to a theme I wrote for a failed tv series. First I did a conductors sketch, and then I wrote out parts 
http://www.fictionmusic.tv/pdfs/sketch.pdf (pdf)

If this is the kind of thing Scott means than I totally understand.


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## Scott Rogers (Aug 19, 2005)

..........


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## José Herring (Aug 19, 2005)

Folmann said:


> Jos. Which composers are you referring to?



I feel another 150 post battle brewing. 8) 

Mostly referring to John Debney, who except for one score "Swim Fan" which he co-wrote with Louis Febre(sp) has done the rest of his work on his own.

Also, back in the day when James Newton Howard was cranking out 6 to 10 filmscores a year he was also sequencing out every cue and handing it over to his orchestrator Brad Dechter. Granted he repeated himself a lot. Brad is a brilliant orchestrator but not much of a composer. Brad would add his brilliance to a lot of JNH scores but mostly the sketches where complete mock-up wise and some but few hand written scores.

Actually JNH is somewhat of an Enigma. He went from hardly knowing how to orchestrate and score to fully orchestrating via midi mock-ups almost everything. He's even sharpened the pencil and orchestrated a few of his own cues. Avid music theory reader JNH is. When I spoke to him a few years back I was impressed with the books he's read to learn how to become a full orchestral composer.

And, back when Jerry Goldsmith was alive about 2 years before he died he had 5 or 6 very productive film years. I know for a fact that he did everything himself. I crashed a session of his (not knowing it was his I walk into Todd AO scoring with my clarinet looking to make some noise and wouldn't you know it. I'm starring at the face of the legend himself. He tried to sell me his Mercedes which had all of 10,000 miles on it. Very funny.) Well anyway, his orchestrator, Alexander Courage, was there. Come to find out that the Alex has lost his hearing! So I gathered that he was mostely just on the payroll. I looked at Jerry's scores. 50 min of music all hand written. He conducted and knew every cue. He was going so fast that the union had to step in and slow him down. The guy was 70 by that time! And he was exceeding the maximum allowed min of recorded music standard that the union has set which is 5 min of recorded music per hour I believe(could be wrong).

And there's me. I'm on my third score for the year. 

Jose


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## PaulR (Aug 19, 2005)

Folmann said:


> Wow! Thats amazing Jose. Thx for providing me with that information. I take for granted it is true and I gladly withdraw my theory based on that.



Hehehe! Gotta say - had a big Dick Dastardly laugh when I read that one - don't take offence Jose, for God sake. Hahhahahahaaaaaaaa!

There's a lot of 'disregard' going on. May have to start a new thread called 'Harry Potter - Disregard!' actually.

Annnyywayyy...

Yes - Boarding School and brussel sprouts. We used to physically fight over them.

Carry on. Great fun reading.


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## John Perkins (Aug 19, 2005)

Herman Witkam said:


> John Perkins said:
> 
> 
> > But she is one of the most sophisticated composers around, not with just acoustic intruments, but with electronic. Like many composers who get their works realized in the way they really want them to be, she doesn't focus on creating a realistic mockup. And frankly, with her very personal way of writing instrumental phrases (just check out some of her music for cello), there would be no way to do it any way.
> ...



You might start with...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002D9E48/qid=1124455256/sr=8-4/ref=pd_bbs_4/002-3208303-6919217?v=glance&s=classical&n=507846 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... l&amp;n=507846)

John


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## ComposerDude (Aug 19, 2005)

(ignore)


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 19, 2005)

I don't care if JW hums it - he's still great. Orchestrators - or whatever you'd call the modern equivalent - exist because the composer can't possibly do the entire score in the time allotted on his own.

Michael Kamen would play cues into his Kurzweil K250 - composing in real time with the scene running in his head. Not noodling, composing - he remembered every note, and he usually hit the cues without watching the film. He'd make a few more passes, and then pass it off.

His orchestrators would get a MIDI file or cassette to take down and orchestrate. It would take him 15 minutes to write a 3-minute cue that way - and a great one. But he was in full control and he knew exactly what he wanted.

I wrote a cue with lots of fast notes in 3/2 instead of 3/4 to make it easier to read. He didn't like that one bit, and it was the end of me.


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## Simon Ravn (Aug 19, 2005)

John Williams didn't do 250 scores. You can't just count the number of entries in IMDB Those included single themes, as well as music composed for scores/TV shows used in other films/computer games etc. Williams has never done more than 4 movies in a year I believe. Maybe 5 one year, not sure. But usually its 2-3. To say that he can't do 2-3 movies a year without using ghost writers is naive. Of course he can, and he never use ghostwriters, not from what I've heard...


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## José Herring (Aug 19, 2005)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I wrote a cue with lots of fast notes in 3/2 instead of 3/4 to make it easier to read. He didn't like that one bit, and it was the end of me.



Sorry to hear about that Nick. I'm sure it must of been a disappointment. But it was good to hear about his composing style. I hear he use to just bang out the String and brass patches and leave it up to the orchestrators to sort it out logistically.

That's good to know. I hate writing to picture too. I like keeping it in my head. Though I then have to go back and fit it to picture.

But, the Micheal Kamen approach may just save me on my 2 current projects.

Thanks,

Jose


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## José Herring (Aug 19, 2005)

Folmann said:


> Jose - out of curiousity. How do you deal with multiple projects at the same time? I have tried it a few time and it was truly killing me.



It's killing me too. If you ever find the answer let me know.

I know bigger composers usually line the up work back to back with an end date on one project then a start date on another by contract.

Me, well, let's just say I can't afford to turn anything down so if they come on top of eachother, I just loose sleep.

The only thing I've found is that I can't write comedy during the night. So I save the action/ thriller stuff for the night time.

Sorry no help here.

Jose


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## José Herring (Aug 19, 2005)

Well next time you pass up a project don't forget who's your buddy man :wink: 

:D 

Jose


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## Christian Marcussen (Aug 19, 2005)

Folmann said:


> Well. I am impressed by the very fact that you CAN actually deal with multiple projects. I have had to give several gigs to people, because I can?t deal with scoring several projects at the same time. Its actually interesting talking about composers doing +5 scores pr. year. I could pull off 5 scores too, but I know I would need a LONG break from music after such an effort.


 Also depends on genre... I mean - the game i'm working on now, and the one set up after that will likely have very similar music. That just drains me completely. But going from some militaristic action game, to a thriller film isent that big a deal. God I would love to score something slower, like a thriller og drama - action stuff is bugging me.


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## José Herring (Aug 19, 2005)

Very true Marc.

I went from a pounding Wagnerian style score for a sick and disturbing Chiller film to a Loop based Karate film. That was fun. What's killing me though is going back and forth from the karate film to a kid's film where the woman didn't know what she wanted, then she heard the "baby mozart" CD and decided that's perfect for her little kids film. :o :cry: 

Now that's tough. Hip slammin' tracks at night. Downloaded free soundfonts with toy piano, xylophone, spicc strings and ww during the day. I spent three weeks totally confused as to my place in the world of music. But, I'm getting through it.

Jose


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## José Herring (Aug 19, 2005)

Folmann said:


> I will remember that Jose. Do you have a website with portfolios?



I'll email you some tracks I have. I'm in the process of getting up a new website. My domain name was highjacked but now it's free again.

PM me your address I got live stuff and sampled stuff. I've got a little mastering to do on the tracks so I'll send them to you one at a time.

Jose


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 20, 2005)

> Sorry to hear about that Nick. I'm sure it must of been a disappointment.



Thanks. Yes, sure, but it's now been 15 years and many other successes and failures. It would be terrible not to be able to move past things like that!


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## Niah (Aug 20, 2005)

Folmann said:


> Well. I am impressed by the very fact that you CAN actually deal with multiple projects. I have had to give several gigs to people, because I can?t deal with scoring several projects at the same time. Its actually interesting talking about composers doing +5 scores pr. year. I could pull off 5 scores too, but I know I would need a LONG break from music after such an effort.



That's tough, I'm quite the oposite actually since I get bored of things easly I like to have multiple projects. I basically start with a project and go as far as I can't go creatively, when I get stuck or out of ideas I switch to the other project and so on. I don't have much of a focus, my mind is always travelling, so even when I'm working on a project I always have mind on another so I when get back to it I already have a sh*tload of ideas.
Sometimes this doesn't wpng [email protected]öú9˜-3     úlJ6396f324 1056735060450cb0e26192b.jpg ;@÷ú:˜@3   • "lJd936d99e 583253686487cfefa51b15.jpg  ;@÷ú;˜-3   • ÆlJd936d99e 583253686487cfefa51b15.jpg 


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## José Herring (Aug 20, 2005)

To be quite honest and in all fairness to Adams I don't know his work that well. So I shouldn't have rush to any judgements. My apologies. Sometimes is just so easy to write the first thing that pops up whether informed or not.

I've heard but just a few of his pieces and was not impressed as I am not with most minimalist works, but I should reserve final judgement after reviewing more of his work.

Jose


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## fictionmusic (Aug 20, 2005)

Niah said:


> That's tough, I'm quite the oposite actually since I get bored of things easly I like to have multiple projects. I basically start with a project and go as far as I can't go creatively, when I get stuck or out of ideas I switch to the other project and so on. I don't have much of a focus, my mind is always travelling, so even when I'm working on a project I always have mind on another so I when get back to it I already have a sh*tload of ideas.
> Sometimes this doesn't work because of the nature of the project itself, sometimes it's so absorving and draining that I don't have any energy left for another one - particulary if that other project is not very appealing.



Full agreement over here. I like having various projects on the go. Sometimes the things that don't work in one end up being useful in the other, but mostly I like to have something up that has no client limitations offset against something that does.


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## José Herring (Aug 20, 2005)

fictionmusic said:


> Full agreement over here. I like having various projects on the go. Sometimes the things that don't work in one end up being useful in the other, but mostly I like to have something up that has no client limitations offset against something that does.



That's what I have problems with. When I'm working on client stuff I can't focus on my own stuff. I keep thinking that I'll miss a deadline or something. How do you do that? That's what I want to know.


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## fictionmusic (Aug 21, 2005)

josejherring said:


> That's what I have problems with. When I'm working on client stuff I can't focus on my own stuff. I keep thinking that I'll miss a deadline or something. How do you do that? That's what I want to know.



I think I like it when it gets down to wire and your options are limited. 

The other thing is, lately I haven't been writing to picture so much (just giving them a library they can edit from) so I don't get nearly as much stress. I find writing to picture a real nuisance when the editors keep changing the "final" edit (especially doing TV, when your deadline is written in stone and everybody else is 2 weeks late).

But nevertheless, I am a workaholic, insomniac so missing a deadline isn't really an issue. The fact I have another piece of music on the go just means I get my frustrations out.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 21, 2005)

I really like "Nixon in China."


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## dcoscina (Aug 21, 2005)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I really like "Nixon in China."



As do I. Adams' '80's works as well. Harmonium, The Wound Dresser, Short Ride on a Fast Machine (totally kick a519cc3d4   [email protected]÷ú#™S3     õnJ4cacd0fc (http://www.scoredog.tv/scoredog80x80.jpg   @ÿú$™S3   )
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