# Issue with SINE Player and Notion 6 which caused Mac OS X to be reinstalled using TimeMachine



## MatthieuD (Nov 1, 2020)

Hello everyone : Orchestral Tools and users of Vi-Control Forum


I don't post a lot of messages on this forum (which is very useful and rich in information on soundbanks !) Thank you all for keeping this forum alive and for your comments !


Unfortunately the message I am posting today relates a very bad experience I just had following the update of SINE Player from version 1.0.4 to version 1.0.5 (current version in October 2020) using my favorite software: Presonus Notion 6.


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I specify that I do not come here to complain. Neither am I coming to denigrate Orchestral Tools (which make sublime soundbanks) nor their SINE Player software which looks great and seems to work well on most DAWs now.


On the other hand, I come to alert users (of Notion 6 or other software less common than Cubase, Logic, etc.) who, like me, would risk at present with the present version of SINE Player having the very bad experience that I just had today. I also come to explain what happened because if other unfortunate people have found themselves in the same situation as me, we can bring together all the information we have in order to be able to help Orchestral Tools and Presonus Notion as best as possible to resolve this major problem.


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Here is what happened in detail :


Since the release of JXL Brass (superb brass soundbank by the way!) with SINE Player up to version 1.0.4, in Notion 6 as soon as there were more than two or three instances of SINE Player, Notion often freezes at the time of loading (at the stage in which it says "loading plugins », sometimes it loads fine, sometimes nothing happened - Notion 6 had completely frozen and it was necessary to "force to quit" the software). Other than this pretty annoying problem, it worked well for me.



But today I faced a much bigger problem after downloading and installing the current version (1.0.5) of SINE Player on my MacBook Pro.


Indeed, and after installing version 1.0.5, to see if this new version would correct the problem of Notion and its loading which freezes when using SINE Player, I try to do a test with Notion by creating a song with several SINE Player instances with some JXL Brass instruments loaded.


When attempting to save this new song, Notion abnormally creates a file without an extension (without the .notion extension as Cubase does with its .cpr extensions) and the size of this file is very small (several KB whereas the file usually weighs several MB). I quit Notion, rename the file with the proper extension and try to open this suspicious file. Mac OS then asks me with which application to open the file. I then select Notion 6 and a Finder message appears saying that this software can’t open such type of file. I tried to open my other notion files and the same message appeared : « This software can’t open such type of file ». Very strange and a little scary ...



I restart the computer in the hope that everything will return to normal and this is where I face a terrible problem (see screenshot below): the icons on the desktop are gone and the apps in the Dock are all showing with a question mark (except for the Finder and Dashboard icon which launch without problem). All the other apps don't work at all and clicking on them always gets the same message: "The app is damaged or corrupted". I can’t open any files as well. The computer therefore completely damaged and cannot open any application (not even "disk utility" to repair permissions, neither Safari, nor Pages, nor TextEdit, ...).

_- screenshot deleted because it contained some private information (musical projects not publicly available, ...) -_



Here in France we are under Lockdown again and finding an Apple repairer is extremely difficult at this time. I am a professional composer (I live off my compositions) so it would have been extremely difficult to continue my work if I had not had a call from a friend advising me to reinstall Mac OS X thanks to a TimeMachine backup (I got the chance to do TimeMachine backups, which saved my life today !).


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_Procedure in case this unfortunately happens to someone: restart the computer and press cmd + R then follow the on-screen instructions and choose "Reinstall Mac OS X from a Time Machine backup". Fortunately, I had made Time Machine backups (a tip: ESPECIALLY MAKE BACKUP BEFORE ANY INSTALLATION OR UPDATE - because here my situation could have been dramatic, deprived of my work tool in full Lockdown !)._


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This manipulation allowed me to find all my applications and files since my TimeMachine version of October 30, but I spent a few hours of great anguish!



So I continue now to run Notion 6 with version 1.0.4 of SINE Player (the one that was already installed in my TimeMachine version of October 30, 2020). Now everything seems to work again as before, but I haven't tested everything yet so I hope I won't have any other nasty surprises in the days to come ...


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Here are the configurations of my computer in order to give you as much information as possible:

Mac Book Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013)
High Sierra version 10.13.4

Material information:
Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro11,1
Processor name: Intel Core i7
Processor speed: 2.8 GHz
Number of processors: 1
Total number of cores: 2
Level 2 cache (per core): 256 KB
Level 3 cache: 4 MB
Memory: 8 GB
Boot ROM version: MBP111.0145.B00
SMC version (system): 2.16f68
Serial number (system): C02ML14NFH04
Hardware UUID: 77831BB6-D3B6-5333-9022-FF2ACF5FCAF9


Presonus Notion 6 version 6.6.478, 64-bit


SINE Player version 1.0.4 (the previous version which regularly freezes Notion 6 owhen opening notion files)


SINE Player version 1.0.5 (the current version - which for me after installing and opening Notion 6 completely crashed my computer, forcing me to reinstall Mac OS X)


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I'm sorry I had to write this post, I would rather talk about music and more fun ! But given the seriousness of the problem that I had I thought it was important to share it with the community, even though I am well aware that my case must be an isolated case (at least I hope so because the experience was quite traumatic !).


Along with this post, I am sending an email to Presonus Notion and Orchestral Tools to let them know about the problem so that they can best resolve it.


I hope none of you have had such an experience, but if unfortunately it did please feel free to post here so that we can get as much information as possible about the cause of this problem.



Musically,




MatthieuD


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## MatthieuD (Nov 1, 2020)

Hello everyone : Orchestral Tools and users of Vi-Control Forum



I don't post a lot of messages on this forum (which is very useful and rich in information on soundbanks !) Thank you all for keeping this forum alive and for your comments !


Unfortunately the message I am posting today relates a very bad experience I just had following the update of SINE Player from version 1.0.4 to version 1.0.5 (current version in October 2020) using my favorite software: Presonus Notion 6.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


I specify that I do not come here to complain. Neither am I coming to denigrate Orchestral Tools (which make sublime soundbanks) nor their SINE Player software which looks great and seems to work well on most DAWs now.


On the other hand, I come to alert users (of Notion 6 or other software less common than Cubase, Logic, etc.) who, like me, would risk at present with the present version of SINE Player having the very bad experience that I just had today. I also come to explain what happened because if other unfortunate people have found themselves in the same situation as me, we can bring together all the information we have in order to be able to help Orchestral Tools and Presonus Notion as best as possible to resolve this major problem.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Here is what happened in detail :



Since the release of JXL Brass (superb brass soundbank by the way!) with SINE Player up to version 1.0.4, in Notion 6 as soon as there were more than two or three instances of SINE Player, Notion often freezes at the time of loading (at the stage in which it says "loading plugins », sometimes it loads fine, sometimes nothing happened - Notion 6 had completely frozen and it was necessary to "force to quit" the software). Other than this pretty annoying problem, it worked well for me.


But today I faced a much bigger problem after downloading and installing the current version (1.0.5) of SINE Player on my MacBook Pro.


Indeed, and after installing version 1.0.5, to see if this new version would correct the problem of Notion and its loading which freezes when using SINE Player, I try to do a test with Notion by creating a song with several SINE Player instances with some JXL Brass instruments loaded.


When attempting to save this new song, Notion abnormally creates a file without an extension (without the .notion extension as Cubase does with its .cpr extensions) and the size of this file is very small (several KB whereas the file usually weighs several MB). I quit Notion, rename the file with the proper extension and try to open this suspicious file. Mac OS then asks me with which application to open the file. I then select Notion 6 and a Finder message appears saying that this software can’t open such type of file. I tried to open my other notion files and the same message appeared : « This software can’t open such type of file ». Very strange and a little scary ...


I restart the computer in the hope that everything will return to normal and this is where I face a terrible problem (see screenshot below): the icons on the desktop are gone and the apps in the Dock are all showing with a question mark (except for the Finder and Dashboard icon which launch without problem). All the other apps don't work at all and clicking on them always gets the same message: "The app is damaged or corrupted". I can’t open any files as well. The computer therefore completely damaged and cannot open any application (not even "disk utility" to repair permissions, neither Safari, nor Pages, nor TextEdit, ...).

_- screenshot deleted because it contained some private information (musical projects not publicly available, ...) -_


Here in France we are under Lockdown again and finding an Apple repairer is extremely difficult at this time. I am a professional composer (I live off my compositions) so it would have been extremely difficult to continue my work if I had not had a call from a friend advising me to reinstall Mac OS X thanks to a TimeMachine backup (I got the chance to do TimeMachine backups, which saved my life today !).


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


_Procedure in case this unfortunately happens to someone: restart the computer and press cmd + R then follow the on-screen instructions and choose "Reinstall Mac OS X from a Time Machine backup". Fortunately, I had made Time Machine backups (a tip: ESPECIALLY MAKE BACKUP BEFORE ANY INSTALLATION OR UPDATE - because here my situation could have been dramatic, deprived of my work tool in full Lockdown !)._


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


This manipulation allowed me to find all my applications and files since my TimeMachine version of October 30, but I spent a few hours of great anguish!


So I continue now to run Notion 6 with version 1.0.4 of SINE Player (the one that was already installed in my TimeMachine version of October 30, 2020). Now everything seems to work again as before, but I haven't tested everything yet so I hope I won't have any other nasty surprises in the days to come ...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Here are the configurations of my computer in order to give you as much information as possible:


Mac Book Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013)
High Sierra version 10.13.4

Material information:
Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro11,1
Processor name: Intel Core i7
Processor speed: 2.8 GHz
Number of processors: 1
Total number of cores: 2
Level 2 cache (per core): 256 KB
Level 3 cache: 4 MB
Memory: 8 GB
Boot ROM version: MBP111.0145.B00
SMC version (system): 2.16f68
Serial number (system): C02ML14NFH04
Hardware UUID: 77831BB6-D3B6-5333-9022-FF2ACF5FCAF9

Presonus Notion 6 version 6.6.478, 64-bit


SINE Player version 1.0.4 (the previous version which regularly freezes Notion 6 owhen opening notion files)


SINE Player version 1.0.5 (the current version - which for me after installing and opening Notion 6 completely crashed my computer, forcing me to reinstall Mac OS X)



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I'm sorry I had to write this post, I would rather talk about music and more fun ! But given the seriousness of the problem that I had I thought it was important to share it with the community, even though I am well aware that my case must be an isolated case (at least I hope so because the experience was quite traumatic !).


Along with this post, I am sending an email to Presonus Notion and Orchestral Tools to let them know about the problem so that they can best resolve it.


I hope none of you have had such an experience, but if unfortunately it did please feel free to post on the "Technical support" in the Vi-Control forum (I created a post specifically on this) so that we can get as much information as possible about the cause of this problem.



Musically,



MatthieuD


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## jcrosby (Nov 1, 2020)

I don't mean to downplay your issue, it sounds like a disaster. That said I'm running Sine on a MBP and it hasn't caused anything remotely weird like this to happen. It doesn't get along with Studio One/Presonus, that's a fact. But even when I started a project in S1 that wouldn't load the only thing that happened was S1 hung and I had to abandon the project.

Renaming an extension should in no way create as issue like this, and this sounds more like an issue related to notion than Sine. Updating an application should in no way be capable of causing a boot volume to not be recognized. Renaming an extension shouldn't either. If for some reason it did that would more likely point toward macos, not Sine or Notion. rankly macos development has been incredibly sloppy for the past 3 years. I had one macos update break core audio throughout the entire OS. The macos 10.15.4 update (IIRC) caused some people to lose thundrebolt ports temporarily, this was 100% Apple's fault. 

I'm sure there are far more technically saavy people that will weigh in... While Sine certainly has had its issues it sounds like you're putting the blame at OT's feet for something that Sine in theory should not even be capable of playing a role in.

Honestly this sounds like it's just incredibly poorly coincidental timing. Perhaps:


You have a disk sector issue. (This could be verified with a program like *DriveDX*)
Or you updated macos recently. Honestly I've had far worse issues with Apple than I have had with any plugin developer. Macos has been incredibly sloppy since 2018.
In my experience disk issues are the most likely culprit. Anytime I've had an issue similar to this it wound up being the result of a failing disk, which can strike at any time, without warning. And in my experience they strike at the most inopportune and disruptive moments, like in the middle of a project...

If your machine is running now I'd demo DriveDX (I believe you can at least), and see if it picks up any warnings. If your disk has sector issues or S.M.A.R.T warnings DDx will pick them up. If they're critical it will tell you in big bold yellow letters that the disk is failing and it will instruct you to back up everything and replace the disk. (See below)

I'd also suggest running disk utility and making note of any errors or warnings it generates, (if it generates any). And, even if Disk Utility does not generate warnings it does not mean your disk may not have issues. Disk Utility is frankly a piece de merde!  (Sorry. As we say in the states, pardon my french!)

Drive DX looks at the disk at a level that disk utility does not and should pick up warnings disk utility will not guard you against. Ever since buying Drive DX it has never been wrong. Every time it's warned me about a disk failing the disk has failed within several days to several weeks later...


You should also read this thread. The issue is not isolated to Sine, Notion, etc, and can be traced back in time:






After the new High Sierra update, all my … - Apple Community







discussions.apple.com






This is an example of what Drive Dx looks like, and will tell you if the disk is failing or reports errors:


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## MatthieuD (Nov 1, 2020)

Thank you very much jcrosby for your answer. I am sorry to sound like I’m putting the blame on Orchestral Tools. It was the fact that after installing this version 1.0.5 it causes my computer to dramatically crash, so for me the correlation between this version of SINE and Notion 6 seems to be the cause of my very bad experience. But you are right, I don’t really know for sure. With my current TimeMachine reinstallation, all seems to work fine for now (with SINE version 1.0.4 which continues to freeze Notion 6 at times when loading a project).



I just launched Disk Utility (now that it works fine on my computer!) and it seems to be correct:


_Vérification du système de stockage
Mode en direct actif.
Exécution de fsck_apfs -n -x -l /dev/disk0s2
Checking volume.
Checking the container superblock.
Checking the EFI jumpstart record.
Checking the space manager.
Checking the object map.
Checking the APFS volume superblock.
Checking the object map.
Checking the fsroot tree.
Checking the snapshot metadata tree.
Checking the extent ref tree.
Checking the snapshots.
warning: apfs_num_other_fsobjects (29) is not valid (31)
Checking the APFS volume superblock.
Checking the object map.
Checking the fsroot tree.
Checking the snapshot metadata tree.
Checking the extent ref tree.
Checking the snapshots.
Checking the APFS volume superblock.
Checking the object map.
Checking the fsroot tree.
Checking the snapshot metadata tree.
Checking the extent ref tree.
Checking the snapshots.
Checking the APFS volume superblock.
Checking the object map.
Checking the fsroot tree.
Checking the snapshot metadata tree.
Checking the extent ref tree.
Checking the snapshots.
Verifying allocated space.
warning: Overallocation Detected on Main device: (1738521+1) bitmap address (92dc5)
The volume /dev/disk0s2 appears to be OK.
Le code de sortie de la vérification du système de stockage est 0.
L’opération a été effectuée._


And here is the result of DriveDX, which for the moment has not found any problems. Fingers crossed !





And for me today has clearly been "une journée de merde"


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## jcrosby (Nov 1, 2020)

MatthieuD said:


> Thank you very much jcrosby for your answer. I am sorry to sound like I’m putting the blame on Orchestral Tools. It was the fact that after installing this version 1.0.5 it causes my computer to dramatically crash, so for me the correlation between this version of SINE and Notion 6 seems to be the cause of my very bad experience. But you are right, I don’t really know for sure. With my current TimeMachine reinstallation, all seems to work fine for now (with SINE version 1.0.4 which continues to freeze Notion 6 at times when loading a project).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is there any chance you updated macos at the same time?

You should read the link below about just how wreckless macos updates can be... (This is only one of hundreds of examples). Ever since High Sierra I've had nothing but problems with macos... I actually won't even update my OS anymore once I find a stable version, as I've had it completely break core audio on me in the past...

EDIT: Just saw you posted the Drive DX reading. Not sure what it would be outside of updating macos at or around the same time.









macOS Catalina 10.15.4 gets a stability update – but reports claim it’s breaking some MacBooks


Supplemental update is allegedly causing serious difficulties with some Macs




www.techradar.com






And no worries... Events like this are traumatizing!


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## MatthieuD (Nov 1, 2020)

I am also on Mac OS X High Sierra and haven't updated Mac OS in a while I think (current version 10.13.4). So no Mac OS X High Sierra updates since this summer if I remember correctly.

Yes, this is part of the reason why I don't update Mac OS unless it is necessary to avoid problems if my current configuration is stable.

Thanks again for your generous help Justin Crosby !


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## Loïc D (Nov 2, 2020)

Hi Matthieu, 

I have exactly the same laptop configuration as you and didn't have any crash as hard as you experienced.

Though, I find Sine 1.05 to be less reliable than Sine 1.04 (I haven't had any trouble so far).
With Sine 1.05, after the project is loaded in Logic Pro, I have to wait for some seconds before hitting play. Otherwise, I have an horrible crash.

FWIW, I'm in Paris too.


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## Mike Greene (Nov 2, 2020)

Matthieu posted this same complaint in three separate threads, which is an absolutely unacceptable abuse of this forum. Do not do that again.


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## Zero&One (Nov 2, 2020)

Nothing to do with SINE sorry. The fact you opened up a project and inserted several instances rules that out.

What I suspect has happened, that output file was a system file type. You then inadvertently told OSX to open all such file types with Notion 6 from then on, hence the ???.


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## MatthieuD (Nov 2, 2020)

Hello Mike Greene and everyone,

I want to sincerely apologize to Mike Greene and all of you for having posted my message 3 times in three different places on this forum. I realize that it was not useful at all and I didn't realize at the time that I was breaking the rules of this forum (that I'm going to re-read right now). I am very very sorry about this.

The problem I encountered yesterday was really serious (my computer was completely down) and in panic I wanted to alert everyone to this problem as quickly as possible. I thought I was doing the right thing, but it won't happen again.

I am also relieved to know that I am the only one with this problem for now, a sign that it is really an isolated problem. I hope to have a quick feedback from Orchestral Tools and Presonus Notion to see what happened ...
Orchestral Tools has already answered me this afternoon and apparently it wouldn't be a problem with SINE Player at first glance.
I will post new messages here (and only here of course !) following the various responses I have received to inform you of the resolution of the problem.

Thank you to everyone who gave their time to help me, and I sincerely apologize again for the many unnecessary messages posted from me.

Truly,

MatthieuD


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