# A call to Sample Developers



## AEF (Mar 19, 2020)

Countless numbers of us are out of work due to this crisis. I know for me I had 6 months of work vanish in a matter of days. 

Given the extraordinary times, circumstances, and hardships we sample library users have ahead of us, I would respectfully call upon companies such as Spitfire Audio, Orchestral Tools, Universal Audio, and others who have prohibited the resale of their products to, for the time being, allow us to do so. 

I understand why these positions are in place. I really do. But I am certain opening this up could GREATLY help this community at this time. Thanks for listening.


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## el-bo (Mar 19, 2020)

But doesn't this just pass on the loss to them? I would assume they are already also going to be hit financially by the current problems, anyway.


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## d.healey (Mar 19, 2020)

el-bo said:


> But doesn't this just pass on the loss to them?


Only if the person who buys it second-hand would have bought it at all from the developer.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 19, 2020)

Unless you would plan on selling your libraries dirt cheap, I don’t think it’s a realistic option. We’re all in the same financial situation in these uncertain times. And when things pick up again, would you not need the libraries?


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## el-bo (Mar 19, 2020)

d.healey said:


> Only if the person who buys it second-hand would have bought it at all from the developer.



Absolutely! My assumption, however, is that even the second-hand prices would be too high for anyone to just take a chance on. $600 for a second-hand copy of BBCSO would be a bargain for someone who already really wanted it, but out of the range of an impulse-buyer. I could be wrong.


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## jamwerks (Mar 19, 2020)

Devs will be hurt by this situation as much as we are. Allowing us to resale would put them out of business. They are already borderline having invested multi-millions in custom players. Then none of us would have the tools we need.

I bet they will be doing more (steeper) sales than usual since there will be less money from us to go around.

Sorry for your losses @AEF, but don't think yours was a good idea.


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## ProfoundSilence (Mar 19, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Unless you would plan on selling your libraries dirt cheap, I don’t think it’s a realistic option. We’re all in the same financial situation in these uncertain times. And when things pick up again, would you not need the libraries?


not everyone is out of work from this stuff - really depends on your industry.

If you sell toilet paper and hand sanitizer then you might be looking like this about now=


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## MartinH. (Mar 19, 2020)

AEF said:


> But I am certain opening this up could GREATLY help this community at this time. Thanks for listening.


Unless the flow of capital would be from financially unaffected hobbyists to affected composers, I don't see how it would actually help. And even then, how much capital do the pros have tied up in libraries they don't need and how much realistically would selling them bring? How long does that keep the lights on for them?

Depending on how the percentages of pros vs financially unaffected hobbyists in this market are, it would seem a lot more sensible to me if the pros start offering services to the hobbyists like 1 on 1 tutoring. Start seeking out new revenue streams.

And apply for whatever financial aid their countries are officially providing for the economically affected.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Mar 19, 2020)

How about asking developers for a respite on marketing games like intro prices? 

If they are willing to sell a new library until March 31st for ** dollars/euros, then would it be a hardship for them to accept the same amount until this pandemic gets under control? After that, they can put it up to the normal price. 

People have no idea what life is going to be like a few months from now so I think it's unfair to put this extra pressure on them. I personally am thinking about a specific library I was planning to buy. I'd prefer to put off this decision. 

Also, there are many companies that do allow resales but insist on very high fees. Other companies have either no fees or very low ones. Maybe there are ways that some companies could compromise about this and lower or even waive their fees for the time of this virus. It's a small sacrifice to help their customers.

The truth is that a lot of people own libraries that they don't ever use. They won't need to buy them again later. And there are others who are sitting on enough cash to be able to take them off their hands. Everybody wins. 

It's not about "keeping the lights on." People will be doing everything they can to survive, and every $100 will help.


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## David Kudell (Mar 19, 2020)

I wouldn't risk it. Buddy of mine bought a used copy of Embertone's Sensual Sax and came down with the virus.

And it goes without saying - sanitize your iLok on a regular basis.


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## Lee Blaske (Mar 19, 2020)

I think it's unrealistic to expect developers to change their policies on this. They're going to be hit as hard as everyone else. I just saw a youtube video from Christian Henson. All of Spitfire's employees are working from home.


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## Polkasound (Mar 19, 2020)

I think there's no right or wrong answer. Since the future is uncertain, there is nothing a developer can do wrong at this point. They can offer sales, offer exemptions on license transfers, or do nothing at all. It's up to each developer to do what they think is best under the circumstances.

I've noticed some developers offering excellent discounts. Since my income has been reduced to virtually $0, I won't be able to take advantage of any of them. All purchasing is on hold. That might make me grumble, but I'm grumbling at the situation, not at the developers.


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## Stringtree (Mar 19, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I wouldn't risk it. Buddy of mine bought a used copy of Embertone's Sensual Sax and came down with the virus.
> 
> And it goes without saying - sanitize your iLok on a regular basis.




I knew it would have infectious properties the moment I saw it. But I had a few, and, well...

Greg


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## axb312 (Mar 19, 2020)

My call to sample devs, particularly @Spitfire Team - please use this time to do some work on and improve the quality of your existing products (I assume all recording/ sampling sessions are out of the question for now).

Also, discounts are much appreciated. Making libs resellable will always be appreciated.


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## AEF (Mar 19, 2020)

jamwerks said:


> Devs will be hurt by this situation as much as we are. Allowing us to resale would put them out of business. They are already borderline having invested multi-millions in custom players. Then none of us would have the tools we need.
> 
> I bet they will be doing more (steeper) sales than usual since there will be less money from us to go around.
> 
> Sorry for your losses @AEF, but don't think yours was a good idea.



And yet hardware manufacturers and certain companies like Project Sam and Softube have no issues with resale affecting their business.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Mar 19, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> Buddy of mine bought a used copy of Embertone's Sensual Sax and came down with the virus.


I'm quite sure you can't get the Coronavirus from SS, but I do know somebody who got a VST from it.


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## AEF (Mar 19, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Unless the flow of capital would be from financially unaffected hobbyists to affected composers, I don't see how it would actually help. And even then, how much capital do the pros have tied up in libraries they don't need and how much realistically would selling them bring? How long does that keep the lights on for them?
> 
> Depending on how the percentages of pros vs financially unaffected hobbyists in this market are, it would seem a lot more sensible to me if the pros start offering services to the hobbyists like 1 on 1 tutoring. Start seeking out new revenue streams.
> 
> And apply for whatever financial aid their countries are officially providing for the economically affected.



I think the consumer should be given the option, right now, to attempt to sell something that he or she bought. Whether or not it would make money on the open market is another story, but I dont see what is wrong with given folks the option.


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## MA-Simon (Mar 19, 2020)

I don't view Sample Libraries as essential products for living.
There is no reason for developers to discount them. Most composers work from home anyway?


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## AEF (Mar 19, 2020)

MA-Simon said:


> I don't view Sample Libraries as essential products for living.
> There is no reason for developers to discount them. Most composers work from home anyway?



Who is talking about discounts? I dont think it’s unreasonable to allow folks to sell something they bought. Especially given that other software developers like Presonis, Waves, Softube, Project Sam, Audio Modeling, and countless others have proven its not only possible but it isnt ruining their businesses.


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## Lee Blaske (Mar 19, 2020)

AEF said:


> Who is talking about discounts? I dont think it’s unreasonable to allow folks to sell something they bought. Especially given that other software developers like Presonis, Waves, Softube, Project Sam, Audio Modeling, and countless others have proven its not only possible but it isnt ruining their businesses.



There's an important distinction. Sample libraries are never "bought." They're licensed, and the licensing terms are outlined in the EULA. They aren't sold as a tangible commodity. They're like software, or paying to license the rights to use of someone else's intellectual property in your production.

Some companies do allow license transfers, but they may have ongoing fees and payments in their business plan (e.g. Waves has their WUP, and transferring is not possible if you're not paid up on that). But, that's all part of their business plan (and undoubtedly, the way the software is copy protected). 

No problem asking other companies to change, but it's perfectly fine if they don't wish to do so. We all know the policies before we purchase. If the ability to transfer a license and receive payment is important to you, just stick to the developers who allow this.


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## Polkasound (Mar 19, 2020)

AEF said:


> I dont think it’s unreasonable to allow folks to sell something they bought. Especially given that other software developers like Presonis, Waves, Softube, Project Sam, Audio Modeling, and countless others have proven its not only possible but it isnt ruining their businesses.



This is too generalized of a statement to make when it comes to digital goods. There are way too many variables at play here... company size, sales numbers, profit margins, copy protection, product classification, etc... for every plugin and virtual instrument developer to use the same business model. Each developer does what they believe is best for their business. Some allow license transfers, others do not. Of those who do, some charge a lot, some charge a little, some don't charge anything.

We can assume allowing license transfers would probably benefit Developer ABC, but we can't know that for sure unless we are actually running Developer ABC's business and crunching the numbers to estimate how such a move could affect their bottom line.


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## dflood (Mar 19, 2020)

Polkasound said:


> This is too generalized of a statement to make when it comes to digital goods. There are way too many variables at play here... company size, sales numbers, profit margins, copy protection, product classification, etc... for every plugin and virtual instrument developer to use the same business model. Each developer does what they believe is best for their business. Some allow license transfers, others do not. Of those who do, some charge a lot, some charge a little, some don't charge anything.
> 
> We can assume allowing license transfers would probably benefit Developer ABC, but we can't know that for sure unless we are actually running Developer ABC's business and crunching the numbers to estimate how such a move could affect their bottom line.


As the economic crisis deepens from this, I'm sure we will see some extraordinary offers from many companies in a desperate effort to try to generate some cash flow. License transfer fees might be part of that. I'm not sure how effective those efforts will be because this is going to leave almost no-one unscathed.


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## ism (Mar 19, 2020)

Hopeful there's a hobbyist market that might even pick up and extra library or two in the context of social distancing that will help devs bridge the gap.


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## Michel Simons (Mar 19, 2020)

ism said:


> Hopeful there's a hobbyist market that might even pick up and extra library or two in the context of social distancing that will help devs bridge the gap.



But even hobbyists can be effected financially by this, although probably not as soon as most professionals.


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## ProfoundSilence (Mar 20, 2020)

allowing reselling of libraries is one thing but asking for discounts is kinda grimey.

"hey massive economic and global health crisis - can buy things I dont need for cheaper !"

maybe it's just the way I see it, hit it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 


that said, let's leave the politics out of it(even non partisan speculation about the seriousness of the virus). It won't help this thrad


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## axb312 (Mar 20, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> allowing reselling of libraries is one thing but asking for discounts is kinda grimey.
> 
> "hey massive economic and global health crisis - can buy things I dont need for cheaper !"
> 
> ...



A lot of hobbyists (who don't regularly work from home) are at home at the moment.

Sales give them a chance to buy some new stuff and gives devs a chance to sell more copies of xyz lib. Don't see what the problem is.


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## ProfoundSilence (Mar 20, 2020)

axb312 said:


> A lot of hobbyists (who don't regularly work from home) are at home at the moment.
> 
> Sales give them a chance to buy some new stuff and gives devs a chance to sell more copies of xyz lib. Don't see what the problem is.


if they are hobbyists and they arent working the last thing they should be doing is spending money they arent making. 

not everyone gets paid sick/ect.


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## Zero&One (Mar 21, 2020)

wst3 said:


> Oh yeah, about the resale of software licenses...



Have any devs, mainly the 3 highlighted replied? I'd love to palm some of them off.


[edit] the libraries that is


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## JEPA (Mar 21, 2020)

*back to the thread's main theme?* The OP wants to sell his licenses because he needs money in this situation and OT, SPA and others don't allow it. IMHO to allow reselling for 1-2 month would not harm anybody and this developers could maybe *see something POSITIVE about it*, like VSL:

- once you have one library YOU WANT MORE. Conclusion: you would be completing a set of instruments, etc. with others sample libraries from the developer in question, also buying more from them as new client
- licenses transfer cost money $$$€€€. So it is also a revenue source and sample developers are not losing anything, instead of that they are collecting money from a dead niche market
- people wanting to sell licenses and to buy licenses are honest ones. Nobody there is wanting to spend money on cheating
- spirit of collaboration from sample developers to real composers, amateurs and hobbiest wanting to develop using these tools, expanding their clients list
- 1-2 month would not harm anybody and allows for experimenting and observing if something like that is good or not for the company
- be on the vanguard in this real situation taking action, showing you are there for the people
- etc.
- etc.
- etc.


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## jononotbono (Mar 21, 2020)

I'll offer the only real perspective lacking here. There's more chance of finding a 4 pack of toilet paper than having a sample dev suddenly offering resale. Wake up people!


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## Mike Fox (Mar 21, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I'll offer the only real perspective lacking here. There's more chance of finding a 4 pack of toilet paper than having a sample dev suddenly offering resale. Wake up people!


A four pack of toilet paper is the new four leaf clover.


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## jononotbono (Mar 21, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> A four pack of toilet paper is the new four leaf clover.



Agreed. I used to think Her Majesty's treasury were groundbreaking pioneers when they moved from paper bank notes to plastic. The amount of times I've been out, multiple times a night usually, shooting the shit and drinking Pina Coladas and getting caught in the rain, ended up becoming a serious financial pandemic for me in the morning. Soggy money everywhere. Now I'm self isolated, I'm wondering WTF those idiots were smoking at the time.


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## Michael Antrum (Mar 21, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> shooting the shit and drinking Pina Coladas.....



Dude, your street cred is evaporating here....


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## jononotbono (Mar 21, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> Dude, your street cred is evaporating here....



That's the worst thing I could ever hear. Terrible. Deeply upsetting. I mean, we can't even walk on our streets outside anymore. Imagine losing these streets as well! Hopefully I can find my way back up to the top. Of the hill. If I walk hard enough.


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## Zero&One (Mar 22, 2020)

Tfis said:


> Why do you buy stuff you aren't allowed to resell? Sell other things.



OP fully understands the restrictions, see original post. They are just asking if this could be lifted for a set time.

By the lack of dev replies 9 pages in, we can safely say it’s “No”


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## Mike Greene (Mar 22, 2020)

I'm admittedly late in doing this, but I've moved the posts regarding Mike Verta's mocking of the seriousness of the Coronavirus to this thread in the Drama Zone.


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