# Presonus Faderport 16



## synthpunk (Oct 17, 2017)

995 usd. Still no Midi CC mode that I see though.
https://www.presonus.com/products/FaderPort-16


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## Gordon_hiphoplp (Nov 12, 2017)

Very Disappointing, also they didnt mentioned, they would be making fp16 after fp8 that also pisses the buyers of fp8 as some of them wished if they could have 16 channels at once...


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## URL (Nov 12, 2017)

why is it so difficult to implement cc function in these controllers, now more than ever there is the need to control parameters with cc data?


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## synthpunk (Nov 12, 2017)

Someone here is coming out or came out with a utility that will let you use any controller for Midi CC. Anyone have that thread handy ?


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 12, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Someone here is coming out or came out with a utility that will let you use any controller for Midi CC. Anyone have that thread handy ?



We (www.deviltechnologies.com) have it. The name of the application is "DFader". The new version which can send MIDIcc is already completed, but not public because we are completing the User Guide. Just a matter of 2-3 days!


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 14, 2017)

Hello!
The new promised DFader version wih the MIDIcc feature is available on the deviltechnologies.com web-site.


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## VinRice (Nov 14, 2017)

HARDWARE iLok? pffft....


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## synthpunk (Nov 14, 2017)

and 80e. ok then.



VinRice said:


> HARDWARE iLok? pffft....


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## reddognoyz (Nov 14, 2017)

VinRice said:


> HARDWARE iLok? pffft....



I don't know why people vilify software developers who need to protect their products from theft. If developers can't make money, we can't have nice things.

I think Dfader is very exciting, it's the solution i've been looking for to control the more complex VI's I work with. A volume only mixer is not so helpful to me when I'm scoring. Being able to see, for instance in Studio Strings, dynamics, vibrato level, legato speed, expression levels, all at the same time, and most importantly be able to grab and overwrite on the fly would be invaluable to me.


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## kurtvanzo (Nov 14, 2017)

Besides the CC issue, there are some other missing items for mixing. Bank/page up/down buttons, record ready buttons, and will the board follow the track selection in the DAW? If not this would slow down workflow quite a bit.

All this works well on an Avid Artist Mix now, and I wonder if this has the nice quiet faders on the Artist mix. The only advantage I can see in this is the 16 faders over 8, but keep in mind I picked up the Artist mix from ebay in excellent condition for $450. Kind of makes the $999 price tag a little crazy. Eventually someone will come up with a fully loaded version of this for $500, and they will sell many more. But at $999 it better be built like a tank (a quiet tank  ) and have a CC solution.


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## kurtvanzo (Nov 14, 2017)

reddognoyz said:


> I think Dfader is very exciting, it's the solution i've been looking for to control the more complex VI's I work with. A volume only mixer is not so helpful to me when I'm scoring. Being able to see, for instance in Studio Strings, dynamics, vibrato level, legato speed, expression levels, all at the same time, and most importantly be able to grab and overwrite on the fly would be invaluable to me.



This is the current issue with most moving fader controllers, many of them do not control or playback midi CC information, meaning the faders are only used for volume or send levels. Hopefully this can be resolved without going to a 3rd party app, since that would involve more routing issues.

I suppose the issue is midi CC's are fixed numbers 1-127, instead of a steady stream of info with more precise incriments (you can see this when you edit CC info in the track) and the faders, to feel natural, need to be much more precise. Perhaps the information could be fine tuned (adding points between 125 and 126 for example), but it would need to know in advance whether the next CC change is in the positive or negative direction, and DAW's do not have a "look ahead" function when it comes to CC numbers (especially when playing live). Perhaps in future DAW's will fix this, or someone like NI will come up with a finer system of control (128 points on a scale is kind of rough when your dealing with a instrument that has a large dynamic range with thousands of samples).

This is probably why most CC controllers (faders, knobs, or wheels) have no playback function. When you grab it in record, the number just jumps to that value, and would need to be fixed in editing if necessary. This is what we try to avoid with moving faders, and why touch faders are so great, touch them to record, let them go and they return to playback. Very simple (At least on the Artist mix  ).


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 14, 2017)

kurtvanzo said:


> This is probably why most CC controllers (faders, knobs, or wheels) have no playback function.



The cc controllers don't playback because the DAWs (at least the ones which I know) don't output the pre-recorded cc values. It is a matter of MIDI routing inside the DAW, not a controller failure.


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## VinRice (Nov 14, 2017)

reddognoyz said:


> I don't know why people vilify software developers who need to protect their products from theft. If developers can't make money, we can't have nice things.



I did no such thing. I have a dozen iLok'd programmes, SOFTWARE iLok...


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## stonzthro (Nov 14, 2017)

s_bettinzana said:


> Hello!
> The new promised DFader version wih the MIDIcc feature is available on the deviltechnologies.com web-site.



Does anyone have it working with an actual controller, reading and writing MIDI CCs? I'd be very interested to see an actual demo; if it works, I'd buy a copy immediately.


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 14, 2017)

stonzthro said:


> Does anyone have it working with an actual controller, reading and writing MIDI CCs? I'd be very interested to see an actual demo; if it works, I'd buy a copy immediately.



The version with the MIDIcc feature was released today. I doubt that somebody has already done a video. Anyway, there will be a video on the web-site.

Why shouldn't it work? It was designed exactly for this
If you own a HUI or Mackie-Control compatible controller, you can immediately test it with a trial license.
BUT, you said: "reading and writing MIDI CCs". Writing is OK, but what about "reading"?


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 14, 2017)

VinRice said:


> I did no such thing. I have a dozen iLok'd programmes, SOFTWARE iLok...



The reason is simple: HW iLok is a stronger copy-protection method than SW iLok. That's all.


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## Nmargiotta (Nov 14, 2017)

s_bettinzana said:


> We (www.deviltechnologies.com) have it. The name of the application is "DFader". The new version which can send MIDIcc is already completed, but not public because we are completing the User Guide. Just a matter of 2-3 days!


/

Is this compatible with the Avid artist Mix/eucon protocol? If so I am SO buying this ASAP! I’ve been waiting for a solution like this. Same with @charlieclouser


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## stonzthro (Nov 14, 2017)

s_bettinzana said:


> The version with the MIDIcc feature was released today. I doubt that somebody has already done a video. Anyway, there will be a video on the web-site.
> 
> Why shouldn't it work? It was designed exactly for this



Well, if half the software I own did most of what it was designed and marketed to do, my life would be substantially different today - that's why


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 15, 2017)

stonzthro said:


> Well, if half the software I own did most of what it was designed and marketed to do, my life would be substantially different today - that's why



Ah, because you are a diligent user.
I am lazy and I seldom read the manuals of my DAW. I am sure that I only know 2% of its capabilities


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 15, 2017)

Nmargiotta said:


> /
> 
> Is this compatible with the Avid artist Mix/eucon protocol? If so I am SO buying this ASAP! I’ve been waiting for a solution like this. Same with @charlieclouser



No Eucon. It is a close Avid-only protocol (on the controller side).


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## stonzthro (Nov 15, 2017)

I have an email in to get a trial license - I'll report back with my findings...


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## stonzthro (Nov 15, 2017)

s_bettinzana said:


> The cc controllers don't playback because the DAWs (at least the ones which I know) don't output the pre-recorded cc values. It is a matter of MIDI routing inside the DAW, not a controller failure.


Actually, DAWs can indeed send out MIDI CC data - they do perfectly well to external synths.


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 15, 2017)

stonzthro said:


> Actually, DAWs can indeed send out MIDI CC data - they do perfectly well to external synths.



Yes, I know. It is what I did when I was a child 30 years ago with my physical synth and Cubase on my Atari 1040st. But today we are speaking about VIs inside the DAW.

What is your DAW?

I speak for Cubase: if you have a (virtual) instrument track, I don't know a trick to route the MIDI data (MIDIcc) to a MIDI port too. If someone can help me, I would be very very happy.
And, I see another problem: you have 100 instrument tracks ... even if you are able to route their MIDI data to one/many MIDI ports, how can you discern the data coming from the selected (just as an example) track to move a motorfader?

It is a shame that the DAW developers don't pay attention to this. This prevents the possibility to have a MIDIcc feedback on a potential external MIDI controller.

But, I repeat: I could be wrong and I would be happy to know how to fix this.


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## jamwerks (Nov 15, 2017)

Wonder how is it that Eucon can "read" CC info on faders, but others can't? That would mean that the CC info is getting sent!


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 15, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> Wonder how is it that Eucon can "read" CC info on faders, but others can't? That would mean that the CC info is getting sent!



I am not able to answer to your question; neither I am able to test it. Anyway, EUCON is a lot more than a protocol. It is embedded inside the DAW at various levels. If I remeber well, it can also communicate the audio data to be depicted as a moving waveform on the display of a control surface, or the name of a clip. You can understand that EUCON is a lot more pervasive than anything else.
My problem with Cubase is that I don't know a clean method to route the MIDI data of an instrument track to an external MIDI port.


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## Tfis (Nov 16, 2017)

s_bettinzana said:


> Y
> 
> 
> I speak for Cubase: if you have a (virtual) instrument track, I don't know a trick to route the MIDI data (MIDIcc) to a MIDI port too. If someone can help me, I would be very very happy.



Maybe you could use a midi track, which has sends.


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## reddognoyz (Nov 16, 2017)

VinRice said:


> I did no such thing. I have a dozen iLok'd programmes, SOFTWARE iLok...


sorry must've misinterpreted your post.


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## VinRice (Nov 16, 2017)

reddognoyz said:


> sorry must've misinterpreted your post.



No problem; I was just questioning the need for a another hardware dongle when the software version seems to work very well.


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 16, 2017)

Tfis said:


> Maybe you could use a midi track, which has sends.



I will try just to check a potential workaround.
But we still have the problem that the motorfader-controller cannot follow the MIDI strem coming exactly from the selected track. Everything would be a mess.


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 16, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> Wonder how is it that Eucon can "read" CC info on faders, but others can't? That would mean that the CC info is getting sent!


Even if it would be an Eucon-only feature, I am very interested in this.
Can you point me to some page/video where I can see this feature, because I wasnt't able to find any info about this.


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## jamwerks (Nov 16, 2017)

There have been several interesting threads here on the forum!


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 16, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> There have been several interesting threads here on the forum!


OK, can you give me the link of one of them where they speak about this Eucon_Controller-follows-Recorded_MIDI_Data?


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## jamwerks (Nov 16, 2017)

s_bettinzana said:


> OK, can you give me the link of one of them where they speak about this Eucon_Controller-follows-Recorded_MIDI_Data?


Try "Eucon CC" in a search!


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 16, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> Try "Eucon CC" in a search!


I will do!
Thanks


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## Nmargiotta (Nov 16, 2017)

s_bettinzana said:


> Even if it would be an Eucon-only feature, I am very interested in this.
> Can you point me to some page/video where I can see this feature, because I wasnt't able to find any info about this.


 I would be extremely interested in a Eucon cc solution. I would buy it ASAP


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 17, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> Wonder how is it that Eucon can "read" CC info on faders, but others can't? That would mean that the CC info is getting sent!



I have collected some infos and came to the conclusion that EUCON cannot send and/or receive MIDI cc data.
I don't know where you have found that info, but it isn't correct.


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## synthpunk (Nov 17, 2017)

I believe I have read that it can be done with Max? but I could be wrong though. Trevor Morris for ie has modded his Avid S3 to work half for Midi CC's. Maybe someone could ask him on his Facebook or Twitter ?



s_bettinzana said:


> I have collected some infos and came to the conclusion that EUCON cannot send and/or receive MIDI cc data.
> I don't know where you have found that info, but it isn't correct.


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## stonzthro (Nov 17, 2017)

Chase Guy Rowland down - he does it in Cubase, but it has to be done a specific way - and sadly, I cannot recall because I couldn't stomach the switch to Cubase... (not that Cubase is bad, just having to relearn SO MUCH)


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 17, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> I believe I have read that it can be done with Max? but I could be wrong though. Trevor Morris for ie has modded his Avid S3 to work half for Midi CC's. Maybe someone could ask him on his Facebook or Twitter ?


I have read that, but it is not related to EUCON.
The ArtistMix could be set as a generic HUI controller (I don't know if this is still possible with the last EUCON/Firmware versions). In that case you could use it as a HUI controller ... I don't know about the S3.
Anyway, this is for writing MIDIcc, not reading.


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 17, 2017)

stonzthro said:


> Chase Guy Rowland down - he does it in Cubase, but it has to be done a specific way - and sadly, I cannot recall because I couldn't stomach the switch to Cubase... (not that Cubase is bad, just having to relearn SO MUCH)


Yes, using the Cubase QuickControls, but that is another case ... you aren't writing MIDIcc, but automation data with a lot of drawbacks ... many Cubase users know how to do this, but it isn't "writing and reading MIDI data".


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## stonzthro (Nov 17, 2017)

OK, but I think there may have been some confusion as to why EUCON was involved, since that is the requirement for Guy's approach. Just trying to help out here...

According to the response I received from DevilTools - it will never be possible to have a fader chase MIDI.


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 17, 2017)

I spoke with the developer of DFader and he said that it could be possible to open a MIDI-IN port in DFader to have a feedback on the motorfaders. In other words, if you are able to send the MIDI data to this port, the motorfader would follow the MIDIcc to which it is associated.

Now the HUGE problem is outputting this MIDIcc stream from the DAW; the one stream associated with the selected track (I am interested in the selected track because this is my workflow; I think that the vast majority of the users use the selection as a target for writing the MIDI data).
That said, I have no idea how to do this (with Cubase, which is the DAW that I know).


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## AlexRuger (Nov 17, 2017)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you do this with the Generic Remote? I got bidirectional MIDI in a touch fader template I put together in Max/MSP doing this (ultimately scrapped it though since Max only supports touch when run through a browser...for some reason).


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## kunst91 (Nov 18, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> I believe I have read that it can be done with Max? but I could be wrong though. Trevor Morris for ie has modded his Avid S3 to work half for Midi CC's. Maybe someone could ask him on his Facebook or Twitter ?



Trevor uses bidule for this


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 18, 2017)

AlexRuger said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you do this with the Generic Remote? I got bidirectional MIDI in a touch fader template I put together in Max/MSP doing this (ultimately scrapped it though since Max only supports touch when run through a browser...for some reason).


Thank you! There could be something useful in your answer (the Generic Remote thing). I will check and report here.


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## stonzthro (Nov 18, 2017)

Zoinks! So much for the email I got from DFader support!

This is different from what Guy is doing, right?

I may need to take a second look at Cubase if I can't find a similar solution in Logic...


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## URL (Nov 18, 2017)

SilentBob said:


>






Edit:我認為這是父親運動的一個很好的示範16。


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## stonzthro (Nov 18, 2017)

make sure you have closed caption turned on for this one!


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## URL (Nov 18, 2017)

Good advise-I'm up for a faderport 16 after this vlog.


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 18, 2017)

I am not in my studio this weekend and I wonder if the MIDI cc data written in the way captured in the video are really written in the MIDI part or are equivalent to a regular automation curve. If it is the last case, it is very very similar to the well known Quick Control method. If it is the first case, then it is what many users are interested in and in this case you can also edit the cc data in the MIDI Editor. I hope that it is this one, otherwise we are at the starting point.

@stonzthro what have the DFader support guys told you?


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## ferescu (Nov 20, 2017)

stonzthro said:


> Does anyone have it working with an actual controller, reading and writing MIDI CCs? I'd be very interested to see an actual demo; if it works, I'd buy a copy immediately.


I bought Dfader last week and i have it working with my Presonus faderport controller, which as everybody knows doesn't support midi cc (i was going to sell it because of that) but now i can send continuous data with that fader and record dynamics and expression automations!!,


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## Gordon_hiphoplp (Nov 20, 2017)

ferescu said:


> I bought Dfader last week and i have it working with my Presonus faderport controller, which as everybody knows doesn't support midi cc (i was going to sell it because of that) but now i can send continuous data with that fader and record dynamics and expression automations!!,


Can you upload a video demonstrating that??


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## s_bettinzana (Nov 20, 2017)

Gordon_hiphoplp said:


> Can you upload a video demonstrating that??



Check (9:02 for the MIDIcc send):



This video is very new and includes the news of the last version of DFader.


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## bacherak (May 28, 2021)

s_bettinzana said:


> Check (9:02 for the MIDIcc send):
> 
> 
> 
> This video is very new and includes the news of the last version of DFader.



Can you please upload the video again.


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