# Is a 256GB Internal/Boot drive workable for us computer musicians?



## el-bo (Oct 7, 2020)

I guess the main issue would arise when installing libraries. But seeing as I've been used to installing to a 1TB (Now replaced by a 2TB) system SSD, it's not something I've ever had to pay attention to. 

Thanks!


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## kitekrazy (Oct 7, 2020)

Yes. I have 3 machines using 256gb. Often there are sales on 500gb than smaller drives.


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## kevinh (Oct 7, 2020)

el-bo said:


> I guess the main issue would arise when installing libraries. But seeing as I've been used to installing to a 1TB (Now replaced by a 2TB) system SSD, it's not something I've ever had to pay attention to.
> 
> Thanks!



I have a 256G internal SSD for boot drive on my Apple laptop and I’m constantly battling not having enough space. I use external SSD’s for main libraries but the issue is that some installers don’t give options to install directly to an external drive. You can often move the library after install. I have workarounds for UVI Portal as example because although i have download and install paths set to external it still doesn’t let me download because it says I don’t have enough space on main HD. I have about 40GB available on that 256GB drive. For my next purchase I’m for sure getting more than 256GB just to avoid all the hassle. That’s my personal experience. Maybe it’s okay for others.


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## el-bo (Oct 8, 2020)

kitekrazy said:


> Yes. I have 3 machines using 256gb. Often there are sales on 500gb than smaller drives.



Thanks! Unfortunately, the computers I'm looking at don't have upgradeable drives. So I have to get it right, from the outset.


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## el-bo (Oct 8, 2020)

kevinh said:


> I have a 256G internal SSD for boot drive on my Apple laptop and I’m constantly battling not having enough space. I use external SSD’s for main libraries but the issue is that some installers don’t give options to install directly to an external drive. You can often move the library after install. I have workarounds for UVI Portal as example because although i have download and install paths set to external it still doesn’t let me download because it says I don’t have enough space on main HD. I have about 40GB available on that 256GB drive. For my next purchase I’m for sure getting more than 256GB just to avoid all the hassle. That’s my personal experience. Maybe it’s okay for others.



Thanks! You've confirmed what I've been thinking. Using workarounds is not a huge issue as software installation is not something that needs to happen too regularly. Of course, if there are certain developers' software is not able to be worked-around, then that'a big issue. Even with 500GB what happens with libraries like BBCSO Pro? Not like I'm in a position to get that, but I wonder how the installer works with such large amounts of data.

Most of the second-hand Mac Mini computers I'm seeing are loaded with 256GB drives. With 500GB, the prices start getting into 'difficult' territory. 

The only other solution I can think of is to use my current 2TB SSD as a bootable external, but I'm not sure if that's workable 100% of the time i.e I wonder if there is any scenario when the internal drive has to be prioritised.


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## pmountford (Oct 8, 2020)

I have 128gb for the Win10 DAW now and it gets abit tight but 256gb would be fine (for me atleast) assuming that the main task for the PC is to be a DAW.


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## Robo Rivard (Oct 8, 2020)

I have a 256 GB SSD, and the only times I run out of memory, is when I try to download big libraries... But wait!

If you have Google Chrome, just go to the "advanced settings", and choose an alternate hard drive to download your precious libraries.


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## el-bo (Oct 8, 2020)

pmountford said:


> I have 128gb for the Win10 DAW now and it gets abit tight but 256gb would be fine (for me atleast) assuming that the main task for the PC is to be a DAW.



Thanks for your reply! How do you get around installing libraries with only 128GB?


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## el-bo (Oct 8, 2020)

Robo Rivard said:


> I have a 256 GB SSD, and the only times I run out of memory, is when I try to download big libraries... But wait!
> 
> If you have Google Chrome, just go to the "advanced settings", and choose an alternate hard drive to download your precious libraries.



Thanks! I'm not sure I understand, however. to clarify: I'm referring to libraries that are installed via proprietary installers. How are you getting around these limitations?

Cheers!


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## wayne_rowley (Oct 8, 2020)

el-bo said:


> Thanks! I'm not sure I understand, however. to clarify: I'm referring to libraries that are installed via proprietary installers. How are you getting around these limitations?
> 
> Cheers!



Spitfire Library installers seem to use an external drive to download/install without impacting the System drive - though to be fair I don't really have any very big Spitfire libs.

My issue was with Native Access when installing Cinesamples stuff. I had to clear out loads of data from my 256GB system drive to download and install the percussion library - even though it was to be installed on an external drive.

It was possible, but a pain, and I suspect there would be real issues with very large libraries (100s of gigs).

My rig is a Mac Mini with 256 GB. I regret not getting a bigger system drive!

Wayne


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## babylonwaves (Oct 8, 2020)

I had a 256GB internal boot drive as well and 12TB SSD in external enclosures. Works totally fine, if you're organized. Native Access can be an issue with big libraries. Even though you can define paths for everything, the initial download goes to your boot drive (at least on macOS)


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## pmountford (Oct 8, 2020)

el-bo said:


> Thanks for your reply! How do you get around installing libraries with only 128GB?


Good question - I'm sure I've just pointed the download directory to one of the library drives. I wouldn't suggest 128gb nowadays though but it wouldn't worry me using a 256gb o/s drive.


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## el-bo (Oct 8, 2020)

wayne_rowley said:


> Spitfire Library installers seem to use an external drive to download/install without impacting the System drive - though to be fair I don't really have any very big Spitfire libs.
> 
> My issue was with Native Access when installing Cinesamples stuff. *I had to clear out loads of data from my 256GB system drive* to download and install the percussion library - even though it was to be installed on an external drive.
> 
> ...



Thanks! Seems to confirm my thoughts, along with others' experience.

I do wonder whether a solution might be to boot into an external partition to handle the installation, then just install the app on the internal and point to the data that now exists on the external drive.


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## el-bo (Oct 8, 2020)

babylonwaves said:


> I had a 256GB internal boot drive as well and 12TB SSD in external enclosures. Works totally fine, if you're organized. Native Access can be an issue with big libraries. Even though you can define paths for everything, the initial download goes to your boot drive (at least on macOS)



Organised, you say? kinda, I guess. But there's only so much shuffling that one can do, before there are no more free blocks to shuffle into.

Thanks for your response.


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## el-bo (Oct 8, 2020)

pmountford said:


> Good question - I'm sure I've just pointed the download directory to one of the library drives. I wouldn't suggest 128gb nowadays though but it wouldn't worry me using a 256gb o/s drive.



Thanks, again! going to investigate (And contact some developers, perhaps) to see how viable it is to install to a completely separate bootable drive, and then point the app installed on the internal drive (Spitfire Player?) to the library that's sitting on the external.


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## BassClef (Oct 8, 2020)

I have a 6 year old iMac with ONLY a single 256GB internal drive. I also use all external SSDs for storage. And I have also had problems with Native Instruments and large library download. I will be upgrading to a new Mac soon and will likely get a larger internal drive to give me more breathing room. Good luck.


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## José Herring (Oct 8, 2020)

I use 500gigs as system drives then use separate drives for libraries. But even 500gigs for just programs gets tight these days. Especially since some synth that are more rompler in nature require to house a lot of sounds and data on the system drive. Imo 256 gigs would be rough.


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## sostenuto (Oct 8, 2020)

Win10 Pro (3) Desktops only, and careful to avoid anything on C:\ not needing to be there. Also taking Samsung Support seriously ..... not running usage into 'red' on capacity bar. Confused by limited knowledge of 'overprovisioning' SSD(s). 
Bottom line is now going to 1TB boot drive capacities as 500 GB exceeds 90% (red bar). Just personal experience and remain in need of improved info.  
Relating to some of OP concern .... (1) PC now has 2TB - C:\ and uncertain about ideal content to load into 'xtra' 1TB space.


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## el-bo (Oct 8, 2020)

BassClef said:


> I have a 6 year old iMac with ONLY a single 256GB internal drive. I also use all external SSDs for storage. And I have also had problems with Native Instruments and large library download. I will be upgrading to a new Mac soon and will likely get a larger internal drive to give me more breathing room. Good luck.



NI not only have their own larger downloads, but now seem to be regularly collaborating with 3rd-party developers. I also imagine that quite a large proportion of their user-base are on Mac, and a high proportion of those will be using smaller, non-upgradeable storage space. So at some point they might hopefully offer some more flexibility with regard to installation.

Cheers!


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## el-bo (Oct 8, 2020)

José Herring said:


> I use 500gigs as system drives then use separate drives for libraries. But even 500gigs for just programs gets tight these days. Especially since some synth that are more rompler in nature require to house a lot of sounds and data on the system drive. Imo 256 gigs would be rough.



Thanks!

i hear ya! I haven't had a boot drive that's less than 1TB for over a decade, so the thought of such a small space (Even 512GB) makes me a little nervous.


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## el-bo (Oct 8, 2020)

sostenuto said:


> Win10 Pro (3) Desktops only, and careful to avoid anything on C:\ not needing to be there. Also taking Samsung Support seriously ..... not running usage into 'red' on capacity bar. Confused by limited knowledge of 'overprovisioning' SSD(s).
> Bottom line is now going to 1TB boot drive capacities as 500 GB exceeds 90% (red bar). Just personal experience and remain in need of improved info.
> Relating to some of OP concern .... (1) PC now has 2TB - C:\ and uncertain about ideal content to load into 'xtra' 1TB space.



Thanks! Back in the day, it was pretty well-known to try to keep 10% free-space on HDD's, but I've never really thought about this, for SSD's. Fortunately, my current boot disk is a 2TB SSD, with a second 1TB SSD, in place of the optical drive. Will keep it in mind if I ever get close to capacity.


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## Mucusman (Oct 8, 2020)

I have a m.2 SSD (256GB) as my Windows boot drive, and I've managed so far... but when I've considered upgrading to a larger m.2 SSD, I've been at a loss at how to clone my existing drive to a larger m.2 drive. Is some sort of USB adapter involved in that? I only have one m.2 slot in my desktop PC. This has kept me from looking into upgrading... any wisdom on how to go about effectively cloning an m.2 drive with a single m.2 slot?


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## José Herring (Oct 8, 2020)

Mucusman said:


> I have a m.2 SSD (256GB) as my Windows boot drive, and I've managed so far... but when I've considered upgrading to a larger m.2 SSD, I've been at a loss at how to clone my existing drive to a larger m.2 drive. Is some sort of USB adapter involved in that? I only have one m.2 slot in my desktop PC. This has kept me from looking into upgrading... any wisdom on how to go about effectively cloning an m.2 drive with a single m.2 slot?


I just went through this. It's a two step process at least for me.

Get some cloning software. I downloaded a trial for free. Get an extermal NVMe drive case. Use the software to Clone your current C: drive to your new NVme drive.


Here's were it got tricky for me. The clone drive was partitioned in a way that was weird. It to the content of my original drive, made that one partition. Then put some emergency boot drive before it on another partition. Then put some sort of other "Healthy Recovery" partition then made a separate D: drive for the remainder of the unused space. 

Because there was this "Healthy Recovery" partition in between the new C: drive and the unused space (D: drive on the same NVMe card) I couldn't use windows to merge the unused space to make it one C: drive. So I had to get another piece of software (free) that would allow me to merge the unused space and move the little "Healthy Recovery" partition to the end of the drive. It was really hard for me to figure out.


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## fakemaxwell (Oct 8, 2020)

IME a 512gb SSD for boot is just enough to not have to really worry about it. Under that you should be ready for some additional legwork. 256 is workable in the sense that it will require some effort but if you're aware of hard drive management you should be fine.


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## el-bo (Oct 10, 2020)

fakemaxwell said:


> IME a 512gb SSD for boot is just enough to not have to really worry about it. Under that you should be ready for some additional legwork. 256 is workable in the sense that it will require some effort but if you're aware of hard drive management you should be fine.




Thanks!

Having just recently received my 'repaired' Macbook, been stress-testing the last couple of days. The old crashes are much less frequent, but a new type of issue has developed. It happens more frequently, but is much more easy to come back from.

As such, I am going to have to try to hold off on buying another 'puter. I can't really afford to, anyway, hence having to consider cutting corners, and hence this thread.

Whether or not I'd be able to get by on 256GB remains to be seen. Hypotheticals such as 600GB libraries don't make sense, as if I have that kind of money to shell out on sounds, I should be able to pay for a computer that'll be able to handle them 

The idea of trying to implement a workaround, using an external bootable drive is an itch i'm still curious to scratch. So, some day, I might try to install some NI ACCESS content onto a second partition, and see how successful I am in porting over the app, and pointing to the date elsewhere.

Will update the thread if I find out anything worthwhile.

Thanks to everyone!


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## rnb_2 (Oct 10, 2020)

I have a 250GB boot drive in my 2018 Mac mini, and have all of my photo/video applications and a bunch of other stuff on it in addition to a few DAWs and several other music applications, and haven't had any real problems thus far. My boot drive usually has 40-50GB free, but I do have to keep an eye on it. SSDs don't degrade as they fill up like spinning disks do, so 5-10% free for caches should be fairly safe.

In Native Access, there are separate preferences for Download location, Application location, and Content location. I have both Download and Content set to my external SSD (different folders, with other folders for IKMultimedia and VSL downloads, as well), and while I don't have any very large Kontakt libraries, I haven't experienced any issues with my setup. Have those that have encountered issues with large Kontakt libraries set their Download location to their external drive in NA?


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## wayne_rowley (Oct 11, 2020)

rnb_2 said:


> In Native Access, there are separate preferences for Download location, Application location, and Content location. I have both Download and Content set to my external SSD (different folders, with other folders for IKMultimedia and VSL downloads, as well), and while I don't have any very large Kontakt libraries, I haven't experienced any issues with my setup. Have those that have encountered issues with large Kontakt libraries set their Download location to their external drive in NA?



I have set my Native Access download folder to an external drive. Nevertheless, when I tried to download the Cinesamples Percussion library a few months back (80GB roughly) it would not do it claiming there was not enough free space on the System drive. It seems to be that even with the download folder set to an external, it still downloads on the System drive and then moves it to the external location (at least on a Mac). It's a known issue with Native Access on the Mac.

What's worse, you need actual free space - not space that is marked as free but purgeable ! It was quite tricky to free up enough space (and that's with 145GB 'free' on my system drive). I had to move photos and iTunes libraries, plus delete some Time Machine snapshots and reboot a couple of times.

I got there in the end, but for my next machine I would definitely choose a larger system drive, just to save time and headache.


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## el-bo (Oct 11, 2020)

wayne_rowley said:


> I have set my Native Access download folder to an external drive. Nevertheless, when I tried to download the Cinesamples Percussion library a few months back (80GB roughly) it would not do it claiming there was not enough free space on the System drive. It seems to be that even with the download folder set to an external, it still downloads on the System drive and then moves it to the external location (at least on a Mac). It's a known issue with Native Access on the Mac.
> 
> What's worse, you need actual free space - not space that is marked as free but pursuable! It was quite tricky to free up enough space (and that's with 145GB 'free' on my system drive). I had to move photos and iTunes libraries, plus delete some Time Machine snapshots and reboot a couple of times.
> 
> I got there in the end, but for my next machine I would definitely choose a larger system drive, just to save time and headache.



They really should get on top of this.

I’ve read a couple of developers claim that 50% (Or thereabouts) of their customer-base are MacOS users, so it wouldn’t surprise me if other developers experienced a somewhat similar situation.

Given many hobbyists and semi-pro’s will end up with MacBooks or Minis, with their non-replaceable ‘drives’, it’s not really appropriate to expect them to pay hundreds more for extra space, or having to shuffle, reorganise and delete files just to accommodate installation overheads.


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## wayne_rowley (Oct 11, 2020)

el-bo said:


> They really should get on top of this.
> 
> I’ve read a couple of developers claim that 50% (Or thereabouts) of their customer-base are MacOS users, so it wouldn’t surprise me if other developers experienced a somewhat similar situation.
> 
> Given many hobbyists and semi-pro’s will end up with MacBooks or Minis, with their non-replaceable ‘drives’, it’s not really appropriate to expect them to pay hundreds more for extra space, or having to shuffle, reorganise and delete files just to accommodate installation overheads.



I hope they fix it. It can’t be that hard!


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## rnb_2 (Oct 11, 2020)

wayne_rowley said:


> I have set my Native Access download folder to an external drive. Nevertheless, when I tried to download the Cinesamples Percussion library a few months back (80GB roughly) it would not do it claiming there was not enough free space on the System drive. It seems to be that even with the download folder set to an external, it still downloads on the System drive and then moves it to the external location (at least on a Mac). It's a known issue with Native Access on the Mac.
> 
> What's worse, you need actual free space - not space that is marked as free but purgeable ! It was quite tricky to free up enough space (and that's with 145GB 'free' on my system drive). I had to move photos and iTunes libraries, plus delete some Time Machine snapshots and reboot a couple of times.
> 
> I got there in the end, but for my next machine I would definitely choose a larger system drive, just to save time and headache.



Good to know - I'll have to keep this in mind if I decide to invest in any big Kontakt libraries. NI does some great stuff, but they also seem to be carrying some significant technical debt - issues like this and the non-resizable KK window (which can be easily hacked via a couple text files) are hard to understand in 2020.


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