# Superior Drummer 3 - On the fence...



## jneebz (Sep 7, 2018)

So as a pretty happy owner of EZ Drummer, I've had my eye on SD3 for a while now and with a new rock project on the horizon, and 3-year interest-free deal at Sweetwater, I was ready to pull the trigger.

Then I listened to the demos again. 

I thought I must be crazy, but all the demos sound like there's a cut around 1.5 - 2.0k. Then I ran across threads here and at GS that discuss lack of higher dynamics in the drum samples. I read the justification for sampling this way, but IMO find it kind of ridiculous, really.

So I guess I'm wondering if people are actually having to layer samples to get punch and crack from the drums? Or have you found a workflow that delivers your drum tones effectively and relatively quickly without that? 

Thanks in advance.


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## jtnyc (Sep 7, 2018)

The new kits don't have the higher velocities triggering full on hard hit strokes like the old ones did. Apparently this was on purpose. I have no idea why they decided to do it this way. There has been a lot of discussion with some defending it, saying you can get what you need with compression, or by layering the rim shot etc. None of those arguments are valid IMO. The new Ayotte kit sounds great as do a few of the others, but I feel like in light of the fact that they sampled 6 kits, much of it is not all that head turning. The new UI is great and for medium rocking to softer stuff the new kits work well. For harder hitting rock I still use the Hit Factory and Allaire SDX. I've been looking at The Rock Foundry SDX by Bob Rock. Those drums sound real good for harder hitting drums. Waiting for a sale on those.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 7, 2018)

I just layer rimshots with regular hits at higher velocities and blend that in, works like a charm. Totally not an issue. The functionality is there and very easy to use, so why not use it. Layer to your heart's content!


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## Zoot_Rollo (Sep 7, 2018)

i've heard this complaint before.

hasn't been an issue for me. went through a few drum VIs before landing on SD3.

couldn't be happier.


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## Kony (Sep 7, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> I just layer rimshots with regular hits at higher velocities and blend that in, works like a charm. Totally not an issue. The functionality is there and very easy to use, so why not use it. Layer to your heart's content!


Bloody hell! @EvilDragon just posted a non-Kontakt/NI-related comment! Wait, you're actually a musician? Reminds me of the time Barney met Dave Crosby.... 



EDIT: But seriously, thanks ED for all the invaluable advice!


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## Sunny Fable (Sep 7, 2018)

I got SD 3 at intro upgrade discount and never looked back. It's my favorite drum library, it has everything I need.


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## kavinsky (Sep 7, 2018)

I find the room not really usable in SD3. too long release for tight rock smack and sounds too sterile.
It would work fine if you like your drums to be on the dry side.
If you're after those compressed rock rooms, its not the best choice, it just sounds like a cavern
you can gate the releases but it won't sound natural.

And yes as others said the hits lack some weight, but thats not a problem depending in what genres you're working

Otherwise its a great library with really awesome sounding shells.


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## FourFour (Sep 8, 2018)

+1 on the Bob Rock SDX.


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## chapbot (Sep 8, 2018)

You are not crazy - I upgraded to S3 and tried to make myself like it, and kept wondering why I don't like it, and finally realized I simply do not like any of the kits lol


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## Zoot_Rollo (Sep 8, 2018)

chapbot said:


> You are not crazy - I upgraded to S3 and tried to make myself like it, and kept wondering why I don't like it, and finally realized I simply do not like any of the kits lol



you bought all the kits and didn't like any of them?

that's a huge investment.

i like Music City a lot.

Roots and Sticks is a great set.

depends on your needs.


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## germancomponist (Sep 8, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> I just layer rimshots with regular hits at higher velocities and blend that in, works like a charm. Totally not an issue. The functionality is there and very easy to use, so why not use it. Layer to your heart's content!


This!
Sometimes I give the regular hit a slow attack to blend out the very first moment .... .


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## kavinsky (Sep 8, 2018)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> you bought all the kits and didn't like any of them?
> 
> that's a huge investment.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure he meant SD3 library kits.


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## chapbot (Sep 8, 2018)

Yeah I'm talking about the SD3 libraries. In fact, I talked to the guy who programs my drums for me and said ''is this all in my head or do I like the old Superior drummer libraries much better than the new sd3 libraries??" and he laughed and agreed so we're just using SD2


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## jneebz (Sep 8, 2018)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> i like Music City a lot.


The Nashville expansion for EZ Drummer 2 had some great snares that sat in a mix really well. Do you find that to be true with Music City? Music City is kind of Nashville EZX on steroids from what I can tell?


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## EvilDragon (Sep 8, 2018)

Nashville EZX is a subset of Music City SDX, IIRC.


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## pderbidge (Sep 8, 2018)

Don't give into GAS! I'm a big fan of Toontrack stuff but the questions I would be asking myself before a purchase are these:

1. What does it do different than what I have?
2. Do I like or need those features?
3. Have I exploited the drum libraries I already have to their full potential?
4. Should I be learning the art of mixing the drum sounds I already have or am I already confident in my mixing skills in this area and thus just want something new for the sake of inspiration?

For me it's easy. I have EZD2- I love the composer tools this has for finding beats and coming up with your own.( SD3 has these features as well)
I also have AD2- I generally like the kits in AD2 better so while EZD2 helps me with the creation process, AD2 helps me with the "sound" I usually like best (not always though, I have used many of the EZD2 kits when they worked).
I have KU11 Ultimate- and haven't even begun to exploit all the Abby Road Kits. I also have Rayzoon and haven't begun to learn all it can do.
I have Slate- and it also has great pre-processed sounds.

The only things I would need/want in SD3 that I don't have are:

1- if I wanted an easy way to record a real drummer and convert it to midi or
2- if I liked the mixer and all it's features better than what I can do in my DAW- but I'm just so used to my DAW and my plugins that I don't see the need for the advanced mixer in SD3 because I feel my DAW is just as, if not more, advanced in that regard.

If I didn't already own what I own then SD3 would be an easy choice and a top contender.


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## jneebz (Sep 8, 2018)

pderbidge said:


> Don't give into GAS! I'm a big fan of Toontrack stuff but the questions I would be asking myself before a purchase are these:
> 
> 1. What does it do different than what I have?
> 2. Do I like or need those features?
> ...


Good thoughts, thanks. I decided to hold off on SD3 for now. EZ2 is going to cover my needs for this particular project I've decided.


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## alanb (Sep 8, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> I just layer rimshots with regular hits at higher velocities and blend that in, works like a charm.



That's exactly how Bill Bruford played his real kit in Yes, King Crimson, etc. Sure worked for him...............

Life imitates art . . . or is that art imitates somethingorother. . . well anyway, I've always programmed SD2/SD3 the same way, and it's always sounded great.


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## rrichard63 (Sep 24, 2018)

I have seen three or four discussions of Superior Drummer 3's response (or lack thereof) to high MIDI velocity values. Is this issue specific to samples made for SD3 (the factory kits and Rock Foundry), or does it also affect SDX's made for Superior Drummer 2? To ask the same question another way, do the older SDX's sound different (less response to dynamics in playing) in SD3 than they do in SD2?

Or am I misunderstanding these discussions altogether? Still on the fence about spending over $200 to upgrade.

Thanks in advance!


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## jtnyc (Sep 24, 2018)

rrichard63 said:


> I have seen three or four discussions of Superior Drummer 3's response (or lack thereof) to high MIDI velocity values. Is this issue specific to samples made for SD3 (the factory kits and Rock Foundry), or does it also affect SDX's made for Superior Drummer 2? To ask the same question another way, do the older SDX's sound different (less response to dynamics in playing) in SD3 than they do in SD2?
> 
> Or am I misunderstanding these discussions altogether? Still on the fence about spending over $200 to upgrade.
> 
> Thanks in advance!



It's just the new kits that come with SD3. My old SDX's respond like they always did. Also, I pretty sure The Rock Foundry has harder hit samples at the top of the range.


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## pipedr (Dec 14, 2018)

Only a couple more weeks before the deadline to upgrade from SD2 to SD3. I've tended to use the NI Abbey Road drums over SD2. Seems like SD3 has more articulations...maybe more velocity levels? More mics for sure, but not sure how useful those are...

Anyone have any more comments?


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## Jediwario1 (Dec 14, 2018)

I'm on the fence too. I currently have SD2 and only use a couple of expansions so I would only be getting SD3 for the new UI/features and the possibility of using future SD3 expansions.


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## MrHStudio (Dec 14, 2018)

I bought the upgrade just so I didn’t end up with a load of drum stuff that didn’t work in the future but haven’t even looked at it yet a month later! As I’m not using it in my current project


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## chapbot (Dec 14, 2018)

pipedr said:


> Anyone have any more comments?


I once again tried S3 just to make sure I wasn't losing my mind. I absolutely do not like it and reverted back to S2 Avatar in the track. S3 toms and hats were ok, kick and snare had no bite. I just bought NI Studio drummer and Abbey Road 70s for Black Friday and I'm eager to try those out.


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## MarcusD (Dec 14, 2018)

Only thing worth having (if you don't have EZD2) is SD3 for the songwriting and groove editing features. Apart from that, the sound a good. But personally, prefer the sound of XLN and GGD kits. Even AB Road drums are awesome sounding. GGD being a good one to watch for the future, great sounding drums for cheap.


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## rrichard63 (Dec 14, 2018)

I really want the songwriting and related features in SD3, but am on the fence about whether I need the factory sounds given all the SDX and EZX libraries I have. As a result, the cost to upgrade from SD2 has felt a little high to me. I've been planning to postpone until (literally) New Year's Eve just in case there is a last-minute flash sale on the upgrades and crossgrades.


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## MarcusD (Dec 14, 2018)

rrichard63 said:


> I really want the songwriting and related features in SD3, but am on the fence about whether I need the factory sounds given all the SDX and EZX libraries I have. As a result, the cost to upgrade from SD2 has felt a little high to me. I've been planning to postpone until (literally) New Year's Eve just in case there a last-minute flash sale on the upgrades and crossgrades.



If you have a lot of SDX and EZX libs and still feel like you're not happy with the samples I don't think it's worth going for. I'd probably look elsewhere, especially if you already have EZD2 for handling midi stuff. 

Just map all your drum libs out the same, then you can create / edit beats in EZD2 and then drag the MIDI data over to kits you like the sound of, that are not by Toontrack.


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## Jediwario1 (Dec 14, 2018)

rrichard63 said:


> I really want the songwriting and related features in SD3, but am on the fence about whether I need the factory sounds given all the SDX and EZX libraries I have. As a result, the cost to upgrade from SD2 has felt a little high to me. I've been planning to postpone until (literally) New Year's Eve just in case there is a last-minute flash sale on the upgrades and crossgrades.



If only we had the option of buying just the plugin without the factory sound library.


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## rrichard63 (Dec 14, 2018)

MarcusD said:


> If you have a lot of SDX and EZX libs and still feel like you're not happy with the samples I don't think it's worth going for. I'd probably look elsewhere, especially if you already have EZD2 for handling midi stuff.


Thank you for your comments. To clarify, I'm not at all unhappy with my existing EZX and SDX samples. I'm on the fence about whether the new samples (all 200-plus GB of them) add that much to what I have.

I do have EZDrummer 2 for the sequencing and MIDI features, but I've been assuming that SD3 goes even further in this regard. For example, the drum replacement mechanism, which I gather works really well and could replace Trigger for me. Nothing like that in EZD2.


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## rrichard63 (Dec 14, 2018)

Jediwario1 said:


> If only we had the option of buying just the plugin without the factory sound library.


Yes!!!


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## Jediwario1 (Dec 14, 2018)

rrichard63 said:


> Yes!!!



I just sent an email to Toontrack saying this, I'll let you know what they respond.


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## pipedr (Dec 14, 2018)

How are the MIDI files in SD3?

In my experience, taking a MIDI file designed for one drum library doesn't translate very well to another library. One thing that's great about the Abbey Road series are all the MIDI files made specifically for the kits that you can audition and drag in and then edit.

How about the mix presets in SD3? Do they cover vintage as well as modern sounds?

Again, Abbey Road is great for these which dial in era-specific sounds.


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## stixman (Dec 15, 2018)

If you do uprade i don't think you will look back...the new mixer is worlds better...i am very happy indeed with SD3....been using drum vi's about 18 years


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## Sunny Fable (Dec 15, 2018)

Best Service is selling the upgrade from SD2 around 160$. Last chance if you want the upgrade price...


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## spyder (Dec 15, 2018)

Another SD2 user on the fence here. I would like to see the surround stuff stripped out for a cheaper price.


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## madfloyd (Dec 15, 2018)

What is GGD? And is the Abbey Road the one that NI put out years ago?


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## MarcusD (Dec 15, 2018)

rrichard63 said:


> Thank you for your comments. To clarify, I'm not at all unhappy with my existing EZX and SDX samples. I'm on the fence about whether the new samples (all 200-plus GB of them) add that much to what I have.
> 
> I do have EZDrummer 2 for the sequencing and MIDI features, but I've been assuming that SD3 goes even further in this regard. For example, the drum replacement mechanism, which I gather works really well and could replace Trigger for me. Nothing like that in EZD2.



Got'cha. Hmm it's a tricky one, the question really is £££ really worth the upgrade when you already have Trigger & EZD2? It'd be handy to have it in one package, but will it make a huge difference to your workflow? 

As for the samples. If you have a lot of SDX expansions already, I don't think the new samples will offer a great deal more diversity.


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## MarcusD (Dec 15, 2018)

madfloyd said:


> What is GGD? And is the Abbey Road the one that NI put out years ago?



Get Good Drums, it's a Kontakt library. Really well recorded kits, tuned perfectly, phase coherent and sound awesome straight out of the box. 

https://www.getgooddrums.com/

Best part is they're cheap. Unfortunately no fancey TT songwriting features BUT the kits sound so good. Can't wait for them to release more.


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## paul (Dec 15, 2018)

I'm certainly on the fence with this one - I'm sticking to my SD2 library.

My decision was particularly reinforced with the following from Toontrack _(their actual words)_: 

"The Superior Drummer 3 Upgrade will be discontinued since Superior Drummer 2 no longer is supported, updated or available for purchase (which in effect means it will become obsolete and cease to work on numerous platforms at some point in time)."

You can make up your own mind on that one? ....... "Obsolete, no support and ceasing to work on numerous platforms" are slightly surprising phrases to use when selling any product in my experience?

Incidentally, on a more positive note, I'm getting good punchy results with my SSD4 library (will probably go for SSD5 in New Year when I get round to it)


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## chlady (Dec 15, 2018)

I too was a little taken back by this strong arm technique by toontrack to upgrade now or never. Still use SD2 quite a bit with several expansions , but also have all of the NI kits as well Realidrums. Nice to see some some retailers are lowering the the upgrade price to $160 which helps . Even though I have Drumagog 5 and Slate trigger to use for my live drum replacement from time to time, I am curious to see how well this new feature works and translates in SD3. Anyone use this replacement feature yet?


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## rrichard63 (Dec 15, 2018)

MarcusD said:


> the question really is £££ really worth the upgrade when you already have Trigger & EZD2? It'd be handy to have it in one package, but will it make a huge difference to your workflow?


Yes, exactly. Thank you for putting it so well.


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## rrichard63 (Dec 15, 2018)

MarcusD said:


> Get Good Drums, it's a Kontakt library. Really well recorded kits, tuned perfectly, phase coherent and sound awesome straight out of the box.
> 
> https://www.getgooddrums.com/
> 
> Best part is they're cheap. Unfortunately no fancey TT songwriting features BUT the kits sound so good. Can't wait for them to release more.


Another source of drum sounds with exactly the same virtues (and limitation) is Analogue Drums.


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## chlady (Dec 15, 2018)

rrichard63 said:


> Another source of drum sounds with exactly the same virtues (and limitation) is Analogue Drums.


Thanks! I like the jazz kits from Analogue Drums and the price is right . I really don't need any more big rock kits as I have plenty of those.


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## Jediwario1 (Dec 16, 2018)

I asked Toontrack if they could provide a cheaper upgrade option for just the SD3 software without the included drum library. They said:

"_We will forward this idea to our home office for consideration. Please keep in mind the upgrade path that does not interest you at this time is going to be discontinued at the end of 2018 (end of the month). 

Another way to suggest new products, or to leave feedback on current products, is by posting your suggestions in the Support Forum via the Customer Service > Requests and Feedback section, as the Toontrack development team browse this section every day_."


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## EgM (Dec 17, 2018)

I think I'll actually pass on this upgrade deadline. I'm not gonna be robbed 160$ for an update I don't need just because the window closes on Dec. 31

This is very disrespectful to loyal customers who might wanna upgrade some day.


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## jtnyc (Dec 17, 2018)

I can understand the frustration with the deadline, but if you think it's robbery why would you even consider upgrading at all?


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## dzilizzi (Dec 17, 2018)

I'm wondering if the upgrade path will close because SD4 is coming out. 

I thought about it, but I have SD2 and never really use it. I usually use EZdrummer or Addictive Drums. AD2 has a great browser for finding beats that works for me. 

And I'm not a drummer so I probably am missing something.


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## EgM (Dec 17, 2018)

jtnyc said:


> I can understand the frustration with the deadline, but if you think it's robbery why would you even consider upgrading at all?



I have no problem paying to upgrade when and if Windows or MacOS breaks the VST/AU, what I have issues with is the deadline. I am certainly not asking them to keep maintaining SD2 forever.

No other plugin I have bought gave upgrade ultimatums like this, Kontakt, Cubase, Studio One, VSL, etc.


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## rrichard63 (Dec 18, 2018)

Jediwario1 said:


> "_Another way to suggest new products, or to leave feedback on current products, is by posting your suggestions in the Support Forum via the Customer Service > Requests and Feedback section, as the Toontrack development team browse this section every day_."


Thanks! I have started a thread there.


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## rrichard63 (Dec 18, 2018)

EgM said:


> ... No other plugin I have bought gave upgrade ultimatums like this, Kontakt, Cubase, Studio One, VSL, etc.


I have seen time-limited upgrade prices from several companies, although not the ones you list. At least Toontrack's was clearly described from the very beginning, and they are apparently going to stick to it. I can respect that. I'm more troubled by the few cases I've seen where a deadline is announced, the date comes and goes, and months later the upgrade price is still being offered. And the cases where the developer or dealer says "limited time only" but doesn't give any clue at all about when the deal expires.


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## VgsA (Dec 18, 2018)

EgM said:


> This is very disrespectful to loyal customers who might wanna upgrade some day.



Well, to me they lost all respect when their SD2 stopped working on my system (made my DAWs crash and many other weird stuff) and they even suggested me to use another drum software for my projects, because they weren't able to fix anything, even when I sent them logs, screenshots, all kinds of files and tried pretty much everything they asked. Case closed, I can't use the software, they don't seem to care. Won't buy from them again after this experience, personally. They didn't even respond to my latest email (May 31th 2018).


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 18, 2018)

I have complained publicly about Toontrack's current upgrade deadline and still feel the same way, I think it is their own prerogative to establish this kind of marketing pressure and quite likely they are losing as much as they are gaining this way. I don't approve at all, I think its heartless and unhelpful and is leaving a bad taste in the mouth for many. That being said, I did end up caving in and getting it before the deadline because I was in a spendy mood through black friday, etc..

I will say, I never used SD2. Never liked the sound, never liked the GUI. I had better options that have always been used, including SSD4 and Addictive drums.

SD3 is no doubt a MUCH improved GUI, its not even in the same ballpark. That being said, I'm not in love with most of the mixer presets it has shipped with. I don't use the EZ drummer functionality either, so all that extra functionality is wasted on me, though its admittedly quite good. 

Its quite likely I will end up using SSD5 a lot more and perhaps even AddictiveDrums still, notwithstanding the fact that the new drum kits in SD3 do sound quite pristine with lots of depth and detail, still I am not that into the produced final sound they are providing through mixer presets. Both SSD5 and AD2 provide better out of the box produced sounding drums, which for me is a major time saver. 

I think SD3 is probably something that would appeal most to an actual drummer that is using a midi kit to trigger it, I think the depth and detail will be felt and heard by them. I think if you're programming drums, as I am, and just need it to sound good and right with minimal fuss....some of these other products I have mentioned are actually quite good...and don't have the crazy pressure sale happening. Personally, I think I may end up regretting that I even bothered to upgrade to SD3 as my first impression has been that yea, the GUI is majorly vamped and the drums sound "deeper", but they still don't sound close to what I would want on my tracks, while my SSD5 and AD2 kits and expansions often just work with very minimal extra processing.


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## musicalweather (Dec 18, 2018)

I've have been following this thread closely, as I'm in a similar situation. Good to hear the different perspectives on this issue. I'll share mine, FWIW.

I most likely will not upgrade right now. For one, I don't really have the funds, as I've blown through my budget on other things. For another, I write mostly orchestral and hybrid music, so drums are not an essential part of my writing on a day-to-day basis. Other reasons:


I've got EZD2 with _eleven_ of the EZXs. I went through the "forced" upgrade to EZD2, though I didn't like that at the time. But I'm glad I did. Many more features than EZD1. EZD2 is more than satisfactory for most jobs.
Since I upgraded to EZD2, I haven't used SD2 that much. Back in the day, I used it a _lot_, because it allowed me to drag and drop midi patterns for individual pieces in a kit. Made it easy to mix the kick of one pattern with the high-hat of another, for example. I have only one SDX -- Custom and Vintage -- and though it sounds beautiful, I haven't used it that much.
Also have AD2 with the standard three kits and five AD Paks. I have to agree with others that AD2 seems a little bit more mix-ready than EZD2, though I use both readily. 
I've got a slew of kits in Komplete Ultimate, though most of them I have not put on my machine. That's because most of my midi comes from the Toontrack eco-system (even third-party stuff, though I suppose some of that is formatted for Kontakt). 
The whopping size of SD3. Now that my master machine is a laptop, most of my big libraries (monsters like Berlin) reside on a slave machine. All libraries that need midi drag-and-drop _do_ reside on my laptop, though. I have my apps on an internal drive and everything else -- files, some sample libraries, go on a 1 TB external SSD. I suppose I will eventually get a _second_ external SSD, but getting SD3 would force me to get one _now_. There's another couple of hundred dollars.
Lastly, very recently I've run into a bug with Toontrack products (both EZkeys and EZDrummer) that causes the MIDI to get messed up when dragged and dropped from the Song Creator Window to my DAW, Digital Performer. I must emphasize that this seems to be specific to Digital Performer. Patterns are offset, notes are elongated, and other notes are left out. I've been in touch with both Toontrack and MOTU. Toontrack said it seems to be a problem just with DP and gave me a workaround that, though a little clunky, will fix the problem. I'm still discussing this with MOTU. Anyone else having this problem?
I am in the camp of people that feel a little irritated by this pressuring tactic to upgrade. Though I suppose Toontrack is free to price upgrades and full products as they see fit. I could point to Native Instruments as an example of company that will give you the update price for versions that go pretty far back.


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## pipedr (Dec 18, 2018)

The expiring update offer does kind of work as a marketing ploy, since it forces a decision--but I'm glad I've got the perspective from the forum. If I don't update to SD3 for $170, I can always get into SSD5 or Addictive Drums2 for about the same price, and not feel like I've lost out. That takes some pressure off.

I checked out AD2, and the MIDI implementation seemed pretty good--lots of grooves with variations to choose from, indexed, internal player synced to tempo, and with the grid search function, and drag and drop functionality. How does SSD5 or the other top contenders compare? This is my main workflow for drums--audition grooves that sound about right, and then drag and drop and edit in my DAW (Logic). 

I hadn't realized that the Tracker function was for transcribing multitracked drums to MIDI--at first I thought you could give it a stereo file and it would figure it all out.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 18, 2018)

Evens odds on them having occasional "1 time special offers" multiple times in the future for SD2 customers.

Big fan of SD3 here and Toontrack in general, even though I think the time limited upgrade stunt is beyond stupid.


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## StillLife (Dec 18, 2018)

pipedr said:


> The expiring update offer does kind of work as a marketing ploy, since it forces a decision--but I'm glad I've got the perspective from the forum. If I don't update to SD3 for $170, I can always get into SSD5 or Addictive Drums2 for about the same price, and not feel like I've lost out. That takes some pressure off.
> 
> I checked out AD2, and the MIDI implementation seemed pretty good--lots of grooves with variations to choose from, indexed, internal player synced to tempo, and with the grid search function, and drag and drop functionality. How does SSD5 or the other top contenders compare? This is my main workflow for drums--audition grooves that sound about right, and then drag and drop and edit in my DAW (Logic).
> 
> I hadn't realized that the Tracker function was for transcribing multitracked drums to MIDI--at first I thought you could give it a stereo file and it would figure it all out.



I think you'll be surprised what tracker can do. Great software. It may work best with multitracks but you can throw a stereofile at it. Even when th e first result isn't perfect, it's very easy to adjust things. 
I upgraded from ezd2, which I also liked very much. SD3 is ezd2 on stereoids: easy browser, song making capabilities, great sounds, easy to adjust playstyle for midi parts, tap to find, it reads all your drum midi (like the Abbey Roads from ni), mixer, tracker, midi-editor, works flawlessy in my daw (Cubase and Maschine). For me, it is very nice to have everything drum in one place. It is probably the best software upgrade I ever did. I think tge step from sd2 will be even bigger yhan tge step from ezd2, as SD3 comes with all th e EZ2-features. 
So, I like it a lot (I am not a drummer).


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 18, 2018)

pipedr said:


> I checked out AD2, and the MIDI implementation seemed pretty good--lots of grooves with variations to choose from, indexed, internal player synced to tempo, and with the grid search function, and drag and drop functionality. How does SSD5 or the other top contenders compare? This is my main workflow for drums--audition grooves that sound about right, and then drag and drop and edit in my DAW (Logic).



AD2 is excellent software. Full FX as needed and great sounding presets in terms of mixer presets. It goes on sale at 50% off regularly to grab more expansions. SD3 has much better drum groove programming in the GUI if you need that.

SSD5 sounds badass and I love it, but it has very limited functionality in terms of the mixer and drum groove stuff. You will end up using it more as a pure sound module, but the samples have the mixer processing burned into them, and for what it is..mostly rock sounds...its....well... bad ass. I just wish SS had included some FX in the mixer with some presets, the way SD3 and AD2 does, to tweak and expand upon it.


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## wst3 (Dec 18, 2018)

I used DKFH, and picked up Superior when it was released. I hesitated a bit on SD2 because I had gotten used to the UI in Superior. In some ways I sill prefer the "classic" UI.

SD3? I'd probably have been quicker to upgrade if they hadn't put a gun to my head. It is just the principle of the thing. Maybe I'm just being stubborn? 

I did finally upgrade yesterday, downloaded the instrument yesterday, still trying to download the library<G>!


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## pipedr (Dec 18, 2018)

StillLife said:


> I think you'll be surprised what tracker can do. Great software. It may work best with multitracks but you can throw a stereofile at it. Even when th e first result isn't perfect, it's very easy to adjust things.
> I upgraded from ezd2, which I also liked very much. SD3 is ezd2 on stereoids: easy browser, song making capabilities, great sounds, easy to adjust playstyle for midi parts, tap to find, it reads all your drum midi (like the Abbey Roads from ni), mixer, tracker, midi-editor, works flawlessy in my daw (Cubase and Maschine). For me, it is very nice to have everything drum in one place. It is probably the best software upgrade I ever did. I think tge step from sd2 will be even bigger yhan tge step from ezd2, as SD3 comes with all th e EZ2-features.
> So, I like it a lot (I am not a drummer).


Oh, that's interesting. So, can tracker transcribe a beat from a mixed track, like say, you want a beat like The Meters Cissystrut?


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## CoffeeLover (Dec 18, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> I'm wondering if the upgrade path will close because SD4 is coming out.
> 
> I thought about it, but I have SD2 and never really use it. I usually use EZdrummer or Addictive Drums. AD2 has a great browser for finding beats that works for me.
> 
> And I'm not a drummer so I probably am missing something.


i have all the kontakt drums and few bfd ive used toontracks drumkit from hell before they were a company 
ive had ez drummer sincr it began and superior drumer always used ez drummer untill now 
i only use SD3 it is well worth the upgrade and it is just as simple and neat as EZ drummer but with tons of more obtions that are extreemly simple 
and its based on the same UI foundation as EZdrummer2 i use it also for bandrehearsal files i drag and drop wav files and it creates the midi within 2 seconds. just that feature for me is well worth it.it is not the same feeling as using SD2 its totally different and you feel like youre using a full version of EZdrummer2. 
anyway thats my experience with SD3.


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## Rex282 (Dec 18, 2018)

BTW SD3 upgrade is available at Best Service for $170(including 320gb HD).I ordered it Sunday night and it's arriving on Wed.
https://www.bestservice.com/superior_drummer_3_upgrade.html


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## Eldhrimnir (Dec 18, 2018)

I did the upgrade from SD2 yesterday, and I must say, I'm happy I got it. I was also on the fence initially, mostly because I already own quite a few of the SD2 expansions, as well as Slate Drums with the CLA and Nashville addons, so I had all of my drum sound needs covered. However after fiddling around with SD3 for a few hours, I gotta say, the new features alone (MIDI editing, drumtracking, stacking etc) was worth the upgrade. The included library is also excellent, but I could have lived without it and settled for the interface alone.


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## antret (Dec 19, 2018)

Hello Everyone!

I was a big fan of the EZD2 + AD combo for years. i used EZD2 mostly for its midi tools and sent midi out to AD. i couldnt get SD3 fast enough when i saw the update. i loved how they packaged my favorite bits of EZD2 with some other great features already mentioned.

Do i think SD3 is waaay better than AD? not really. its a toss up i would say. i like to think i can hear a little more detail in SD3, but it could be my mind playing tricks. 

i agree that it seemed faster to get a drum mix dialed in faster in AD, but i kind of like all mixer options in SD3.

i definitely dont write the heavier stuff but here are 2 tracks ....one with AD and 2nd one with SD3 (they are both mixed pretty differently)


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## musicalweather (Dec 19, 2018)

antret said:


> i definitely dont write the heavier stuff but here are 2 tracks ....one with AD and 2nd one with SD3 (they are both mixed pretty differently)


Nice tracks! With the first track, I got more of a sense of the drums being in the same room as the other instruments. But both tracks sound very good.


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## spyder (Dec 19, 2018)

179 Euros for an upgrade, with additional kits that I don't need and a whole bunch of surround stuff that I don't want doesn't seem like a good proposition. The basic program looks great and I suspect if it had been available on its own without all that additional content for a lower price, then I think many if not most of us fence-sitters would have already upgraded.


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## antret (Dec 19, 2018)

hi musicalweather!

thanks for listening! now that i think back about the two songs i recall that i used the separate outs in AD and used 3rd party processing on the tracks. for the track with SD3, all mixing, fx, etc were done in the program itself. 

i dont even know if that tidbit is even helpful, but i figured i would share. 

member: 10342"]Nice tracks! With the first track, I got more of a sense of the drums being in the same room as the other instruments. But both tracks sound very good.[/QUOTE]


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## rrichard63 (Dec 19, 2018)

spyder said:


> ... if it had been available on its own without all that additional content for a lower price, then I think many if not most of us fence-sitters would have already upgraded.


Please add that thought here:

https://www.toontrack.com/forums/topic/sd3-software-only-upgrade/

Thanks!


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## rrichard63 (Dec 28, 2018)

I've read a lot about the quality of the new samples in SD3, but nothing about what genres the factory library covers and doesn't cover. That could matter a lot, because the cost might (or might not) be partially offset by savings on additional SDX packages I wouldn't need to buy in the future. Still on the fence here.


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## Jediwario1 (Dec 28, 2018)

rrichard63 said:


> I've read a lot about the quality of the new samples in SD3, but nothing about what genres the factory library covers and doesn't cover. That could matter a lot, because the cost might (or might not) be partially offset by savings on additional SDX packages I wouldn't need to buy in the future. Still on the fence here.



It covers most genres (some better than others), here's a helpful video:



I personally prefer the sounds of the SDX's I already own.


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## rrichard63 (Dec 28, 2018)

Jediwario1 said:


> ... here's a helpful video ...


Thank you. The video is indeed very helpful, and I hadn't seen it.


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## chlady (Dec 28, 2018)

Rex282 said:


> BTW SD3 upgrade is available at Best Service for $170(including 320gb HD).I ordered it Sunday night and it's arriving on Wed.
> https://www.bestservice.com/superior_drummer_3_upgrade.html


It is $162 now at Best service with a halls of reverb lexicon reverb pluginthat you can add for free, I finally went for it today .


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## dzilizzi (Dec 28, 2018)

chlady said:


> It is $162 now at Best service with a halls of reverb lexicon reverb pluginthat you can add for free, I finally went for it today .


$162 is without the hard drive.


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## chlady (Dec 28, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> $162 is without the hard drive.



Yes that is correct, no HD . It actually downloaded pretty fast for me from Toontrack at about 15min for each section of the library which was around 50GB each . There were four sections . if you are short on space or don't need all of the surround mics ,you don't have to download all of the surround mics.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 28, 2018)

chlady said:


> Yes that is correct, no HD . It actually downloaded pretty fast for me from Toontrack at about 15min for each section of the library which was around 50GB each . There were four sections . if you are short on space or don't need all of the surround mics ,you don't have to download all of the surround mics.


Glad to hear it’s fast. Spitfire and Sonokinetic have been a little slow with the sales. And those libraries are about a quarter of the size.


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## wst3 (Dec 29, 2018)

Proof I should have waited! UGH!


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## antret (Dec 29, 2018)

I don't recall that video, but i would agree it showcases some sounds/styles that are better than others. I feel that the core sounds are pretty 'clean and detailed' but very tame sounding overall. I'm not into metal or hard rock, so that was kind of okay by me! I will say I have had to do a fair amount of processing on the drums (using the internal effects) to get the sounds I was looking for. I do think the new effects, etc are useful and I haven't felt the dire need to route the tracks externally (to the DAW) for processing.


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## S.M Hassani (Dec 30, 2018)

Have to say I wasn't pleased with the imposed deadline. But it was worth it in the end. (For my needs)

Many things to like in SD3 over anything else I tried. Take a look at these videos: (I may expand on this later)


The Grid editor is very powerful. I can see myself using it even with other MIDI triggered software.



Update 3.1 added a lot of convenience features:



The core library can be shaped endlessly with the software's internal tools:

Metallica: (This preset will be included in an upcoming free update)



Led Zeplin (John Bonham)


I think it has enough in there to cover my drum needs for a long time to come.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 30, 2018)

Yeah, I broke down and bought it also. I like the fact you can drag in drums and get a midi for it.


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## rrichard63 (Dec 30, 2018)

antret said:


> ... I feel that the core sounds are pretty 'clean and detailed' but very tame sounding overall ...


That is exactly my impression from the demos I have listened to.

I'm sure I will get off the fence and upgrade before midnight tomorrow. I'm equally sure I will always resent being made to pay for samples I probably won't use much in order to get the feature set to use with my existing SDX and EZX libraries. But who knows? Maybe someday the SD3 core library will become my goto for some genre or another.


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## S.M Hassani (Jan 26, 2019)

They just announced some interesting expansions, including an ORCHESTRAL PERCUSSION SDX: +100 instruments recorded at Galaxy Studios in 11.1 surround. With that, SD3 is looking even better for media composers. I'm glad I took the plunge.

The announcement: https://www.toontrack.com/toontrack-20-years/#


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