# Garritan Gofriller Solo Cello



## Chaim (May 2, 2006)

"It was played entirely in real-time using controllers. It was not assembled or pieced together the way traditional samples are usually done or edited after the fact.

Here is the first demo of the upcoming Gofriller Solo Cello:

Ambient Version:

MP3: http://www.garritan.com/Strad/Cell-demoBastyr.mp3

WAV file: http://www.garritan.com/Strad/Cell-demoBastyr.wav
(Using a Bastyr impulse from the Upcoming Real Spaces)

Intimate and Close Version:

MP3: http://www.garritan.com/Strad/Cell-demo05012006-dry.mp3

WAV: http://www.garritan.com/Strad/Cell-demo05012006-dry.wav


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## pdzl (May 2, 2006)

Sounds pretty awesome. I am sold.

What's the release date and how much?


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## Christian Marcussen (May 2, 2006)

Sounds nice. I suspect it will cost $199,- like the strad. But just a guess.


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## José Herring (May 2, 2006)

Nice attacks. But the sustains sound hollow too me. There's also a bit of a physical modeling type sound in this with lots of lfo which give it kind of a wierd synth sound. And the lower register notes d.e.f ect. Sound artificial. Like they didn't want to use the C string for anything other than open C so they mapped the first stop on the g string down too far.

Tough to tell from this demo the ultimate worth. I'll wait to hear more demos before I decide completely, but as of now it could use some improvement. 

I'm not as impressed as I was with the strad.

Best,

Jose


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## Christian Marcussen (May 2, 2006)

Ok... to me they are equal. What I could fault with the strat, seems to be the same with the cello, just as they seem to have the same merits.


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## tobyond (May 2, 2006)

Sounds decent, a little synthy in parts but on the whole it's alright. Doesn't make me want to buy it but it's nice to know there is a 'playable' cello if the need arises.


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## midphase (May 2, 2006)

I need this very library like, yesterday!

I hope it gets released within the next month, I need it on an upccoming project very soon!


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## José Herring (May 2, 2006)

After hearing the demo a few more times, well the middle register sounds good indeed. It's the lower that sounds a bit woofy. Perhaps dipping out 200 hz with EQ would do it. But it definately seems usuable and I'm looking forward to hearing more.


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## midphase (May 2, 2006)

I hope Gary packages the Violin and Cello into a combo product. Ideally he'd include the Viola and Bass as well.

I could see that being a very appealing product to own.


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## handz (May 3, 2006)

Sound nice, synthy on some parts..but overaly....nice.


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## Daryl (May 3, 2006)

handz @ Wed May 03 said:


> Sound nice, synthy on some parts..but overaly....nice.


I agree. Compare it with any of the major sample libraries and it sounds really fake, but the big deal is the real-time element. However, on demos that are less "dramatic" it might not fare so well. Only time will tell.

I do think that this sort of experimental work is great for sample users because it raises the bar for the more traditionalist approaches of other sample libraries.

D


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## Rob Elliott (May 3, 2006)

The lfo vibrato just doesn't do it for me (I own the Strad) and have the same complaint. There is a 'fine line' between no vibrato and too much vibrato. If you find this fine line - it should work well. I just wish the vibrato was a little less synthy/lfo-like. Tone is excellent IMHO. This morphing developement will continue to get better and better - I am sure.

ROb


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## midphase (May 3, 2006)

> Compare it with any of the major sample libraries and it sounds really fake




Really? You must have heard stuff I never heard of before because I think this blows away any demo I heard from the Horizon solo cello which is just about the only other competitor out there right now.

Can you post a link to your favorite solo Cello demo that you think makes this one sound fake?


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## Waywyn (May 3, 2006)

well i think this cello at least sounds better than the strat did, compared to a violin sound.

only heard on small speakers but my all in all impression is better then the one i had on the strat.


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## tgfoo (May 3, 2006)

I thought that the demo sounded pretty good. I had some of the same issues as the rest of you (the vibrato and it does sound kinda synthy in parts). But overall I definitely did like it.


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## Waywyn (May 3, 2006)

yeh i think hidden in a mix it could sounds pretty cool, but if you would have it completely solo with just a pad going on or so, you have the same problems like you would have on all/most samplelibs


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## Daryl (May 4, 2006)

midphase @ Wed May 03 said:


> > Compare it with any of the major sample libraries and it sounds really fake
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Try this and see if you like it.

D


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## Joseph Burrell (May 5, 2006)

Hmmm... Its kind of hard to compare the two demos, IMO, as they are of completely different styles. I like the timbre of the Gofriller overall. To me, as a listener of music, never a player, its sounded convincing enough. The VSL demo is much more expressive (but, again that could be the slower demo talking), but I don't know about the timbre. I like mine deeper and richer than both instruments have shown so far (the Gofriller comes closest.) I prefer the tone of the EW Gold cello to either one and the KH Emerald isn't bad either. I'm probably going for the VSL Solo Strings VI anyway at some point as I have an upgrade path to them. Hopefully by then they'll have given up on that damnable dongle of theirs. The price for the Garritan Strad and Cello together is prohibitive for me considering the other two (viola and contrabass) aren't around yet and would effectively put the price around 6-800 bucks for the 4 instruments.


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## Waywyn (May 5, 2006)

i personally think, that if the whole solo instrument package of garritan will be around 600-800 bucks (i know you guessed, joseph, but it could be), i would go for the VSl solo strings anyway, because i care more about sound than technique. ... and the articulations on the vsl stuff are good enough, while the sound on the vsl solo strings is overall better.


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## José Herring (May 5, 2006)

Daryl @ Thu May 04 said:


> midphase @ Wed May 03 said:
> 
> 
> > > Compare it with any of the major sample libraries and it sounds really fake
> ...



That's really good timbre wise but it isn't as connected as the Garritan cello. I guess that's the trade off. Playability vs. sound quality. The VSL has excellent sound quality but I get the sonic impression that it's a series of tiny little recordings.

Actually I've been fooling around with the EW Gold solo strings with the SIPS script an they do quite well.

Garritan's cello I think might work better in profession situations as I think that most clients hear "samply" performances rather than tone quality. I had a situation where a client was complaining about synthy strings and to fix it I did nothing but fix the performance. It had nothing to do with the tone quality of the samples. It was the way the samples where transitioning that made it sound synthy to his ears.

Well. In the end you'll really need it all anyway.

Jose


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## Waywyn (May 5, 2006)

on the other hand you shouldnt forget that still instruments sounds like you want to hear it.

when you are used to a crappy cheap trumpet and you hear a noble expensive one with a talented player you go like "this is like the real thing sounds? too much treble or too much whatever"

and also it is the other way round, i had people telling me my stuff is synthy only because of the sound.


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## midphase (May 5, 2006)

I think both demos are good (VSL and Garritan), neither one makes the other sound really fake as has been previously noted. Both have very realistic moments and both have synthy parts. Having played the Garritan Strad (but not the VSL player) I liked the idea that I was able to achieve fairly realistic transitions without too much fuss. 

To me, the sound character is one of the easier things to tweak by judicious use of EQ and reverbs. Playability is not. Either the sample translates well to being played on a keyboard, or it does not. On my deadlines, I simply don't have time to tweak the performances and to piece things together as meticulously as some of these demos might have required. 


Ultimately, as has been stated many times, realism is subjective and personal.


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## pdzl (May 5, 2006)

I agree with midphase on this.

I do not feel all of them have nailed the tone I'm looking for, and for me VSL's has a more neutral tone, which can be a bad and good thing.

But for me the playability that can be done with the new garritan solo strings puts it over the edge for me. Now if someone can get the tone right.


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## Waywyn (May 5, 2006)

... another point we have to think about, that a few years earlier was just happy that an instrument does sound like an instrument. nowadays it is the articulations and technique which counts. but soon as this happened (with k2 scripts, vsl vi and gary technique etc.) we demand like heaven on earth. so we should still remind ourself that there is still a rocky road to go.

anyway, the only thing which really prevented me from buying the strad, was the bodyless tone. at least a little bit more body would have been cool.


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## Rob Elliott (May 5, 2006)

midphase @ Fri May 05 said:


> I think both demos are good (VSL and Garritan), neither one makes the other sound really fake as has been previously noted. Both have very realistic moments and both have synthy parts. Having played the Garritan Strad (but not the VSL player) I liked the idea that I was able to achieve fairly realistic transitions without too much fuss.
> 
> To me, the sound character is one of the easier things to tweak by judicious use of EQ and reverbs. Playability is not. Either the sample translates well to being played on a keyboard, or it does not. On my deadlines, I simply don't have time to tweak the performances and to piece things together as meticulously as some of these demos might have required.
> 
> ...




This is spot on. I simply don't have the following:


1. Time to piece in a 'performance'.
2. Ability to piece in a truly convincing 'performance' (to the level of others here.)


Some of my better writing is 'improvisationally' played in (on lead / melody parts). This is difficult if you are writing in 10 different components /art files, etc.

I have had some success with first using something like Gary's strad and then 'assembling' 10-12 art files on VSL to get the performance but that doesn't always work and by the time I have done this (another hour or so) - I 'might' now be as good as the one that was 'performed' in on the fly. 

People argue that VI doesn't really 'sound' different or better BUT what it does for us in many cases is makes writing flow more (more writing and less programming and tweaking) IMHO - this still has some ways to go but I see the VI engine evolving.

Rob


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## Waywyn (May 5, 2006)

Hey Rob, one question. you wrote art files, so do i guess that you compare the strat with the giga solo strings?

just a question, because i think the vi of vsl can handle much more and you don't have to use 12 artfiles but one or two matrixes to get the same or similar result.

i was reading posts before that people always compare the strat to the vsl solo strings on giga/kontakt or whatever, but imho that's not kinda fair 

and also i think the programming for garys stuff isn't THAT supereasy. of course it might be more easy than using the vsl vi, but even on the strat you have to use keyswitches or midi commands.


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## Rob Elliott (May 5, 2006)

Alex,

True, you still have keyswitching and controller data to do with the Strad (the controller data is best handle with two express pedals and two MW's). What I found with the Strad was that writing became a tad more intuitive as if I was really playing a violin. With VI, you have more 'logical' pre-planning to do.

I think if all I was doing was mocking up previously written material I would always opt for VI. With new material required fast - that may not be the case - even with the matrixes offered.

On one recent project I did both violins and the Director actually preferred the 'more body' the Strad offered. But of course for the very next project the VI one could be better.

As already mentioned. I would sacrfice a bit on tone purity to get a more 'realistically' rendered performance. I think our average Joe Smoe producer / Director (maybe not musically trained but listen to a lot of 'performances') will identify more with the overall performance - the way notes are played - one to another (does this solo vln, cello, whatever - sound like that M. Night film I love so much - i.e. - references of other high end works that he/she will compare your mock-up to. I feel that is not always fair but its a reality.

I think we all do the same thing (maybe to a greater extent.) :wink: 


Rob

Rob


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## Daryl (May 6, 2006)

Rob Elliott @ Fri May 05 said:


> Alex,
> 
> True, you still have keyswitching and controller data to do with the Strad (the controller data is best handle with two express pedals and two MW's). What I found with the Strad was that writing became a tad more intuitive as if I was really playing a violin. With VI, you have more 'logical' pre-planning to do.
> 
> ...


I think that in some ways I agree with you, I still don't think that I've heard anything from either Garritan instrument that would make me want to buy it, although the Strad demos are better than what I've heard of the Cello so far.

However, I don't compose by playing at the sequencer, so although I do program in real time as much as possible, I guess that in a way I'm mocking up previously written material, even though it may only be material from earlier in the day...!

As I said earlier, the huge thing about the Strad (and the new Cello) is the real time playing part, so that, for me, is the exciting aspect.

D


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## Rob Elliott (May 6, 2006)

No doubt Daryl - exciting times ahead as player engines become more and more sophisticated and allow for real time performance input.

 

(I think in 10 years from now we will look back at the 'late 90's - early 2000's' and think we were in the stone age - music mocking up, that is. Sort of like our looking back at some the medical procedures of 100 years ago - leaches, blood letting, etc. - and wondering how we got through it all.) :roll: 


Rob


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## ZeroZero (May 12, 2006)

I listened to the demos and was blown away.Concerning comments on tone I added a little reverb and this seemed to help a great deal - obvious step I know, I wonder if the demos were recording raw or with too minimal reverb?
Zero


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## Daryl (May 12, 2006)

ZeroZero @ Fri May 12 said:


> I listened to the demos and was blown away.Concerning comments on tone I added a little reverb and this seemed to help a great deal - obvious step I know, I wonder if the demos were recording raw or with too minimal reverb?
> Zero


For some people this might be an issue, but I would rather that there were some demos without reverb so that I can hear exactly what the instrument sounds like.

D


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## ZeroZero (May 12, 2006)

Fair point Daryl - maybe you should audition twice once with once without to get the full flavour


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## José Herring (May 12, 2006)

Hey ZeroZero,

I actually liked the version without the verb. Dry I can really hear the rosin and the close miced booth enviroment. The woofiness in the bass notes that I was complaining about are a result of the room resonnance and as such is actually quite nice and can be tamed with compression and eq. So that's not a problem. There's a little harmonica sounding section just above that, but that can be handled with carefull programming. Then above that the cello has a really good sound. No problems there.

Thanks for posting the dry version. Naked I can tell that this is a great instrument. Another achievement for the team.

Is there a way to get a demo of a double concerto between the violin and the cello? I'd like to hear how they work together. 

Jose


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## ZeroZero (May 12, 2006)

Im a fan you will have to ask Georgio for this

Zero


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## José Herring (May 12, 2006)

ZeroZero @ Fri May 12 said:


> Im a fan you will have to ask Georgio for this
> 
> Zero



Oh Sorry. Usually when a new member signs up under an alias plugging a new release I always assume that they're connected to the product in some way.

What's lacking over here is an official statement about the new release from members of the team. It would be nice to interact with Gary and Georgio about their new product. I've been waiting for some response.

I know in the past Gary's been attacked on this forum but that's usually just coming from Marsdy and Simon and really nobody pays much attention to that biased bashing anymore anyway.

It would be cool though to get some specifics.

Jose


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## joaz (May 12, 2006)

josejherring @ Fri May 12 said:


> What's lacking over here is an official statement about the new release from members of the team. It would be nice to interact with Gary and Georgio about their new product. I've been waiting for some response.
> 
> It would be cool though to get some specifics.
> 
> Jose


Apart from that demo, there has been very little info coming from Garritan HQ. But if they are starting to release demo's, my guess is final release cant be far behind.

I guess, the biggest desire from the sampling community is for a good legato singing cello, and this first demo, adresses that.

But I would like to hear something with a bit more grit in it. I like the bite of the Strad, and hope the new Cello can deliver some of the same.

regards Joe


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## José Herring (May 19, 2006)

Giorgio Tommasini @ Fri May 19 said:


> Hi all.
> 
> Thanks for your constructive comments.
> 
> ...



Yes. I'm sure it was all your fault.

:lol: 

I'm glad to have you involved in this discussion. The cello looks like it may even be better than the violin and I thought the violin was pretty good. I was tough on the original demo but now it's starting to win me over.

Jose


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