# VSL Synchron Brass



## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

Finally, the long-awaited library, and probably the one we've gotten the most requests for, is here:










136 GB of brassy goodness, featuring 8 soloists and 7 brass sections, is waiting for you!

Soloists:

2x Solo Trumpets
2x Solo Horns
Tenor Trombone
Bass Trombone
Cimbasso, Bass Tuba
Ensembles:

Trumpets a4*
Trumpets a6
Horns a6*
Horns a12*
Tenor Trombones a4
Trombones a9*
Low Brass Ensemble a6*
+ Giant Tutti Brass (great for sketching)
(* from BBO Series)

From mighty and powerful to soft and subtle - these brass instruments can do it all.
As usual, packed with a lot of articulations, including different shorts, longs, legatos, dynamics, fluttertongue and trills, fast repetitions, rips, upbeats and more (varies depending on instrument).
And as usual, everything was recorded with multiple mics, giving you full sonic flexibility + we added a lot of mixer presets so you can load an insturment, load your favorite mix, and get inspired.
We also included additional carefully crafted Signature Presets for more variety in sound and inspire you to create your own mixes.

For this release we added a new feature for the Synchron Player: _Timbre Adjust_.
This feature allows to mimick the timbre changes of brass instruments without the need for crossfades.
It can be used in combination with velocity XF to increase the effect, or on its own to avoid possible artifacts when using velocity XF with solo instruments.


*Get it for just € 435 / € 595* (intro pricing, Standard / Full; reg: € 575 / € 790):





BRASS - Vienna Symphonic Library


Synchron Brass offers a wide variety of articulations and phrases, and features like Timbre Adjust, integrated time-stretching, and the Synchron Player’s release sample technology increase its flexibility and expressive possibilities immensely, allowing you to easily manipulate samples in...




www.vsl.co.at






By the way, if you already own parts of the BBO Brass libraries, *your discount might add up to a final price as low as € 290 / € 399* (during intro sale).
Make sure to be logged in when visiting the product page, to see your personal upgrade price!


*IMPORTANT*: Make sure to update your Synchron Player to v1.1.2023 or newer. Older versions might crash when loading Synchron Brass instruments.


Manual of this library:





Synchron Brass | VSL - Instruments







www.vsl.info


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## holywilly (Jul 6, 2021)

OH MY LORD! It’s finally here!


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## jamwerks (Jul 6, 2021)

Awesome !!


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## mikeh-375 (Jul 6, 2021)

any info on dynamic layers ?


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## holywilly (Jul 6, 2021)

@Ben the ones from Synchron Brass included in BBO are identical to BBO?


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## SlHarder (Jul 6, 2021)

Considering I puchased BBO brass at then intro prices the discount offered on SBPro is quite a treat. Put SBPro in your Basket and then go to Checkout to see discount.


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

mikeh-375 said:


> any info on dynamic layers ?


We'll add the detailed information to the manual, soon:





Synchron Brass | VSL - Instruments







www.vsl.info





The quick answer: Up to 5, depending on articulation.
The ensembles have 4 velocity layers for the longs / legatos, the soloists have 3.
The Con fortissimo articulation will replace the highest layer with a ff one (except the Solo Horns, where you will get the ff layer as additional layer in the Con fortissimo articulation => 4 layers).
The Espressivo articulation has 4 layers for ensembles and 2 for soloists.


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

holywilly said:


> @Ben the ones from Synchron Brass included in BBO are identical to BBO?


Yes, except there are additional mixer presets available.


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

SlHarder said:


> Considering I puchased BBO brass at then intro prices the discount offered on SBPro is quite a treat. Put SBPro in your Basket and then go to Checkout to see discount.


It works here for me. Please double check that you are logged in. If the price is still not correct please PM me your mail address and I get thsi sorted out.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 6, 2021)

Did someone page @Frederick yet? Or did @Ben hand him the box with serialnumber 00001 in person?


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## jaketanner (Jul 6, 2021)

This is great, but unfortunately doesn't make any financial sense for owners of BBO brass. So, if I get the standard version of this, I will actually lose out on the additional mics I currently have in BBO, IF I wanted to add in the missing Bones and match my BBO, I would need the full version and to spend upwards of $500...All I wished for was a dedicated trombone patch to round out my BBO brass collection...and now in order to get that, I need to buy the entire Brass library. Hope they release the bones alone. And I get there are additional instruments and patches...all I want are separate Bones...


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## tcb (Jul 6, 2021)

？？？
VSL is stealing my wallet


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> I would need the full version and to spend upwards of $500


€ 399, I don't think the exchange rate is that bad right now 


jaketanner said:


> but unfortunately doesn't make any financial sense for owners of BBO brass


it definitly does! If you only need an additional trombone section, sure. But this library contains far more then just an additional trombone section


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## jamwerks (Jul 6, 2021)

Awesome to have two different soloists for Horns & Trumpets. 3 & 4 part chords sound much better by alternating different soloists. And a2 is a very useful combo (not included), but that should be doable with these two soloists! Amazingly low price!


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## Jackdnp121 (Jul 6, 2021)

this is one great sounding brass library. Very impressive 👏


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## jaketanner (Jul 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> € 399, I don't think the exchange rate is that bad right now
> 
> it definitly does! If you only need an additional trombone section, sure. But this library contains far more then just an additional trombone section


I only need bones. And it is slightly over $500 to get the FULL version library. Not worth it for bones. Truly hope they make it an upgrade at the very least to BBO owners. And I would be forced to get the full version to match the mics


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> Awesome to have two different soloists for Horns & Trumpets. 3 & 4 part chords sound much better by alternating different soloists. And a2 is a very useful combo (not included), but that should be doable with these two soloists! Amazingly low price!


Yes, it's definitly doable and works just great. The "Also Sprach Zarathustra" demo uses the transpose trick to get 4 highly controllable trumpets. (A walkthrough will be availbe soon.)


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## jamwerks (Jul 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> Yes, it's definitly doable and works just great. The "Also Sprach Zarathustra" demo uses the transpose trick to get 4 highly controllable trumpets. (A walkthrough will be availbe soon.)


Yeah that demo sounds awesome!!


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Truly hope they make it an upgrade at the very least to BBO owners.


You just have to read my initial post to the end 



Ben said:


> By the way, if you already own parts of the BBO Brass libraries, *your discount might add up to a final price as low as € 290 / € 399* (during intro sale).
> Make sure to be logged in when visiting the product page, to see your personal upgrade price!


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## Gerbil (Jul 6, 2021)

Killer trumpets!


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## 24dBFS (Jul 6, 2021)

Remember to update to the newest Vienna Synchron Player (ver. from 21-07-06) to fully enjoy the Timbre Adjust parameter  
Great sounding library! Congrats VSL Team!


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## Evans (Jul 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> By the way, if you already own parts of the BBO Brass libraries, *your discount might add up to a final price as low as € 290 / € 399* (during intro sale).


Which BBO releases are considered "brass" releases? I have Hercules, Jupiter, and Kopernikus. I know I'm missing Izar.

Yet, if I do the "add Izar to basket" trick to see what my Synchron Brass discount would have been like with it, I'm still only down to €440.


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

Evans said:


> Which BBO releases are considered "brass" releases? I have Hercules, Jupiter, and Kopernikus. I know I'm missing Izar.
> 
> Yet, if I do the "add Izar to basket" trick to see what my Synchron Brass discount would have been like with it, I'm still only down to €440.


You are also missing BBO: Z (trombones a9 and horns a12).


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## Evans (Jul 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> You are also missing BBO: Z (trombones a9 and horns a12).


Ah, thanks. Sorry I missed this on the FAQ page on mobile device.


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## Frederick (Jul 6, 2021)

Excellent news!!

399 Euros for the full version and I still had one voucher left. Sold!

Downloading...


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## jaketanner (Jul 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> You just have to read my initial post to the end


The upgrade I mean to ADD Trombones to BBO...an upgrade to BBO directly with the addition of the Trombones patch. Not a discount to upgrade the whole library.  Just want bones...seems like something that can be done since the patch is literally already there. Tenor Bones A4...please.


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## ptram (Jul 6, 2021)

Absolutely stunning. Now, convince me I need the Full version, and with the Standard I will miss something I absolutely need.

Paolo


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## JEPA (Jul 6, 2021)

It sounds awesome! Congrats on the release of Synchron Brass!


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

ptram said:


> Absolutely stunning. Now, convince me I need the Full version, and with the Standard I will miss something I absolutely need.
> 
> Paolo


With only the Standard you will miss out on my mixer presets  

But for real: Besides the missing mixer presets, the additional mics add a lot to the richness of the sound and room.


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## ptram (Jul 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> With only the Standard you will miss out on my mixer presets
> 
> But for real: Besides the missing mixer presets, the additional mics add a lot to the richness of the sound and room.


Thank you, Ben. I wonder if what I would miss is only flexibility (like the additional mixer presets and my own settings), or even some aspects of the sound. I would have guessed all the room mics are already in the Room Mix, and if one is happy with that, all perspectives should be there (minus, when available, the Back mics).

It's something I'm still wondering, and have not been able to solve with the full Synchron libraries I own. This, not including the pianos, where I mostly use the additional close mics, more than the room ones.

Paolo


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## ptram (Jul 6, 2021)

About Timbre Adjust: is this like a subtle and dynamic version of the Timbre Shift in the pianos? Is this shifting the harmonics, and is not a high cut filter like the Filter control?

Paolo


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## holywilly (Jul 6, 2021)

I wouldn’t mind that VSL take consideration of mic merging to Synchron Player in the future, that will be totally awesome! One of the best sounding brass libraries in the market!


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

ptram said:


> I would have guessed all the room mics are already in the Room Mix, and if one is happy with that, all perspectives should be there (minus, when available, the Back mics).


Yes and no. There is so much you can do with the sound by simply adding more delay to a pair of mics, or adding different EQs, using different FX... 
A single RoomMix can not cover all these parameters.

While the close mics are really useful for pianos and to a certain degree strings, for Brass imo room mics are far more important. I would not want to miss these after I have worked with this library for a while.


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

ptram said:


> About Timbre Adjust: is this like a subtle and dynamic version of the Timbre Shift in the pianos? Is this shifting the harmonics, and is not a high cut filter like the Filter control?
> 
> Paolo


No, it has nothing to do with the pianos Timbre Shift.
It adds some magic to the sound so it sounds like a lower velocity tone without crossfading between the velocity layers.


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## Nimrod7 (Jul 6, 2021)

Got Holkenbrass just few weeks back…
Got Cinebrass late last year…






congrats on the release!


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## ptram (Jul 6, 2021)

I've another question: the new Ensemble content will replace the equivalent BBO volumes? Can we remove Hercules, Jupiter and Kopernicus without losing anything? And what about Izar? As for Zodiac: can we just keep everything that is not pure brass ensemble, and remove the rest?

Paolo


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## ptram (Jul 6, 2021)

Me again! Will a different mix between the two close mics (front and back) allow for virtual Horns III and IV, to be used in chorale writing?

Paolo


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

ptram said:


> I've another question: the new Ensemble content will replace the equivalent BBO volumes? Can we remove Hercules, Jupiter and Kopernicus without losing anything? And what about Izar? As for Zodiac: can we just keep everything that is not pure brass ensemble, and remove the rest?


Yes, but you will have to reload the instrument presets in already saved projects.
Izar is included in the Low Brass preset.

You can delete the brass instruments from Zodiac by deleting the Brass files (not the Bass files!)







ptram said:


> Me again! Will a different mix between the two close mics (front and back) allow for virtual Horns III and IV, to be used in chorale writing?


Sorry, can't say. I would not try this but instead use the transposition trick for tutti parts.


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## Drumdude2112 (Jul 6, 2021)

sounds frighteningly good.
And i'm REALLY trying to mellow out on the Lib purchases lol (sigh)


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## Rubens Tubenchlak (Jul 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> Yes, but you will have to reload the instrument presets in already saved projects.
> Izar is included in the Low Brass preset.
> 
> You can delete the brass instruments from Zodiac by deleting the Brass files (not the Bass files!)
> ...


Ben, could you explain more about how to write 4 part chords with that library? I am not familiar with the transposition trick.


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## Toecutter (Jul 6, 2021)

Can we appreciate this release not only for the amazing content but also for the professional way VSL treat their costumers? No hype early announcements, no cryptic teaser campaigns, just a new massive library, an intro price with a loyalty discount, walkthrough videos, audio demos, all ready to buy and download


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## doctoremmet (Jul 6, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Can we appreciate this release not only for the amazing content but also for the professional way VSL treat their costumers? No hype early announcements, no cryptic teaser campaigns, just a new massive library, an intro price with a loyalty discount, walkthrough videos, audio demos, all ready to buy and download



Agreed and appreciated. VSL understands that hype based around facts is the kind that you really want as a creative developer.


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## Rich4747 (Jul 6, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Can we appreciate this release not only for the amazing content but also for the professional way VSL treat their costumers? No hype early announcements, no cryptic teaser campaigns, just a new massive library, an intro price with a loyalty discount, walkthrough videos, audio demos, all ready to buy and download



I agree, VSL is moving forward in a good way with so much possible in the future with that Synchron player platform.


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

Rubens Tubenchlak said:


> Ben, could you explain more about how to write 4 part chords with that library? I am not familiar with the transposition trick.


Sure. Basically you offset the note-pitch by a few half-tones and correct that pitch difference via pitch-wheel automation (only required for tutti passages).
(You can change the default pitch wheel range of 2 semi-tones in the Synchron Player as well.)

There will be a walkthrough available soon demonstrating and explaining this.


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## FabioA (Jul 6, 2021)

Rubens Tubenchlak said:


> Ben, could you explain more about how to write 4 part chords with that library? I am not familiar with the transposition trick.


It worth a try and it's a useful trick you can then use with any library and not just for 4 part chords, but it is absolutely not mandatory for this library; personally, for a 4 part writing I create 2 instances of the 1st soloist and 2 instances of the 2nd. Then I tweak a bit the microphones, especially the Close and Mid to spread a bit this "virtual" group.

Horn 1: 1st voice
Horn 2: 2nd voice
Horn 1 (copy): 3rd voice
Horn 2 (copy): 4th voice

By definition, in a 4 part writing you are unlikely writing in unison the 1st with the 3rd or the 2nd with the 4th; so there's very little chance you encounter phase problems having the same sample playing twice.
Yes, "the transposition trick" changes the tone of the instrument, so you create a bit of contrast between voices, but again, something I am not personally doing for the purpose of having 4 voices.

Hope that makes sense!


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## Rubens Tubenchlak (Jul 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> Sure. Basically you offset the note-pitch by a few half-tones and correct that pitch difference via pitch-wheel automation (only required for tutti passages).
> (You can change the default pitch wheel range of 2 semi-tones in the Synchron Player as well.)
> 
> There will be a walkthrough available soon demonstrating and explaining this.


yes, it seems I will need the video!  
Anyway thank you Ben, I am quite excited about it. Now... only missing the woodwind with alto flute and bass flute!


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## dcoscina (Jul 6, 2021)

Wow this sounds really good.


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## ptram (Jul 6, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> No hype early announcements


Hey! We customers have been hyping the brass library for at least one year! 

Paolo


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## ptram (Jul 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> Basically you offset the note-pitch by a few half-tones and correct that pitch difference via pitch-wheel automation


Ben, what about an automatic pitch-shifting-trick feature in the Player, automatically creating a transposed duplicate sounding at the correct pitch? Transposition and pitch shifting done transparently, so that one doesn't have to do it in the DAW/notation program. 

Paolo


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

ptram said:


> Ben, what about an automatic pitch-shifting-trick feature in the Player, automatically creating a transposed duplicate sounding at the correct pitch? Transposition and pitch shifting done transparently, so that one doesn't have to do it in the DAW/notation program.
> 
> Paolo


Well, it's still a hack/workaround. It will often work, but not always and has its own downsides. So please don't expect official support for it.
There is also the other alternative: Use different articulations, this will also work, and in most it will also be even better.


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## Rubens Tubenchlak (Jul 6, 2021)

FabioA said:


> It worth a try and it's a useful trick you can then use with any library and not just for 4 part chords, but it is absolutely not mandatory for this library; personally, for a 4 part writing I create 2 instances of the 1st soloist and 2 instances of the 2nd. Then I tweak a bit the microphones, especially the Close and Mid to spread a bit this "virtual" group.
> 
> Horn 1: 1st voice
> Horn 2: 2nd voice
> ...


Thank you dear Fabio!


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## Noeticus (Jul 6, 2021)

I am impressed... But I cannot find a walkthrough video. Is it out yet?


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## Giovanni dall Camera (Jul 6, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> I am impressed... But I cannot find a walkthrough video. Is it out yet?


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## Soundbed (Jul 6, 2021)

Keywords: "timbre adjust"

:D


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## Michael Antrum (Jul 6, 2021)

I've just stopped off to pick up something to eat on the way home and seen this come up.

Nor I have a dilemma - Spain vs Italy or having a deep dive into the demos for this long awaited library.....


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## AEF (Jul 6, 2021)

I just spent my remaining vouchers on ELITE. I would exchange for these except I think Elite is exquisite and have to keep it! Damn you VSL lol!


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## Toecutter (Jul 6, 2021)

Rich4747 said:


> I agree, VSL is moving forward in a good way with so much possible in the future with that Synchron player platform.



Yea of all the players, Synchron is my favorite. I love using Elite Strings and the BBO stuff! The integration with Vepro and MIR is quite convenient. No performance issues, the libraries feel very optimized on my rig. The player is amazingly flexible, I keep learning new ways of tweaking sounds. And VSL has the best support service I ever received from any company period. 

It will be hard to not buy the Synchron Brass considering the excellent discount for BBO owners. Amusingly, a few days ago I was asking Ben for another strings sale and little did I know that Synchron Brass was coming... well played mate!


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## muziksculp (Jul 6, 2021)

I'm looking forward to see Synchron Woodwinds, and Synchron Solo Strings.

Now, I will check out all the videos, and audio demos of Synchron Brass.

Congratulations to VSL for finally releasing VSL Synchron Brass. This is a major release !


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## dunamisstudio (Jul 6, 2021)

Awesome!


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## CT (Jul 6, 2021)

Very interesting. I've been wanting to give VSL another chance for a while now. Another step in the right direction.


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## StefVR (Jul 6, 2021)

Would buy it right away but Synchron player still doesn't work in Logic on my mac mini M1 neither native nor with Rosetta. Got drop outs on every sample setting with one instrument.


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## Frederick (Jul 6, 2021)

Mike T said:


> Very interesting. I've been wanting to give VSL another chance for a while now. Another step in the right direction.


I'm particularly interested to find out if you can hear anything wrong with how these brass instruments sound, because I can't even tell I'm listening to samples. I'm also very interested to learn what you think of the "timbre adjust" feature.


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## Michael Antrum (Jul 6, 2021)

Frederick said:


> I'm particularly interested to find out if you can hear anything wrong with how these brass instruments sound, because I can't even tell I'm listening to samples. I'm also very interested to learn what you think of the "timbre adjust" feature.



Got to say I just got home and played a couple of the audio samples through my monitors and it sounds really first rate. 

I stockpiled some VSL vouchers during the BF promotion, and it seems now is the time to use them.....


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## AEF (Jul 6, 2021)

That lead trumpet is really great! Thats IMO one of the hardest things to get right.


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## muziksculp (Jul 6, 2021)

I really liked the way Trumpet 2 sounded.


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## Consona (Jul 6, 2021)

Wow!

So who's gonna make all the Star Trek, Star Wars, Jurassic Park and Hook mock-ups?!


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 6, 2021)

Sorry for double asking, maybe I've overlooked it:
What's the difference between the solo trumpets and solo horns? Is it similar to the VI libraries, i.e. trumpet Bb vs trumpet C as well as triple horn vs viennese horn? Or is it just a different timbre?


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Sorry for double asking, maybe I've overlooked it:
> What's the difference between the solo trumpets and solo horns? Is it similar to the VI libraries, i.e. trumpet Bb vs trumpet C as well as triple horn vs viennese horn? Or is it just a different timbre?


Differnt players each using their instrument. The sound difference is quite significant. Especially with the trumpets it's awesome how different especially the trumpets are, so you can use the one that fits the current style better.


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## Zedcars (Jul 6, 2021)

Consona said:


> Wow!
> 
> So who's gonna make all the Star Trek, Star Wars, Jurassic Park and Hook mock-ups?!


Just finishing off all 4 of those now...


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## jamwerks (Jul 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> Differnt players each using their instrument. The sound difference is quite significant. Especially with the trumpets it's awesome how different especially the trumpets are, so you can use the one that fits the current style better.


Just out of curiosity, are they C or B-flat trumpets?


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Jul 6, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> Just out of curiosity, are they C or B-flat trumpets?


Bb


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## SlHarder (Jul 6, 2021)

Just as in SynStringsPro the playability and nuances that you can extract from SynBrass really set it apart from other publishers' sample libraries.


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## CT (Jul 6, 2021)

Frederick said:


> I'm particularly interested to find out if you can hear anything wrong with how these brass instruments sound, because I can't even tell I'm listening to samples. I'm also very interested to learn what you think of the "timbre adjust" feature.


Hah, well I wouldn't put much stock in my opinions but what little I've heard so far is all right. I have misgivings about the Synchron libraries' mics being time-aligned out of the box but it seems simple enough to reverse engineer that. I'm interested to hear what more demos/walkthroughs reveal.


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

Mike T said:


> I have misgivings about the Synchron libraries' mics being time-aligned out of the box but it seems simple enough to reverse engineer that


Regarding this: I've talked to our technical sound engineer yesterday about this, and it's right, the mics are time-aligned. But as already mentioned, you can set a delay in the Synchron Player's mixer, and many presets make use of that.
I might be able to send you the original delay values, in case you want to try these out.


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## Casiquire (Jul 6, 2021)

This sounds so good! Very well done don't own anything Synchron just yet, but I'm curious. Regarding dynamic patches and similar things, is there a way for it to synch to host tempo and then you can select the articulation by quarter note, whole note, etc instead of by seconds? And if not, is that in the works? I never really used those in the old VI instruments because it was just way easier to play it in with a crossfade. First world problems.


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## Casiquire (Jul 6, 2021)

Mike T said:


> Hah, well I wouldn't put much stock in my opinions but what little I've heard so far is all right. I have misgivings about the Synchron libraries' mics being time-aligned out of the box but it seems simple enough to reverse engineer that. I'm interested to hear what more demos/walkthroughs reveal.


Hmm how do you mean regarding the mics?


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## muziksculp (Jul 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> Regarding this: I've talked to our technical sound engineer yesterday about this, and it's right, the mics are time-aligned. But as already mentioned, you can set a delay in the Synchron Player's mixer, and many presets make use of that.


Hi @Ben,

I don't understand this detail, so the mics are time-aligned, what is the downside of this ? why would one need to set different delay values for the mics ? 

Thanks.


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Regarding dynamic patches and similar things, is there a way for it to synch to host tempo and then you can select the articulation by quarter note, whole note, etc instead of by seconds?


Yes, you can sync to host tempo (time-stretch):






If this is what you mean. If you are talking about a feature where the note starts/ends on a certain note, such a feature does not exist, but I could add it to the wish-list.


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## Casiquire (Jul 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> Yes, you can sync to host tempo (time-stretch):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm referring to the 2-second, 4-second, etc dynamic articulations and having them go by note length instead. Thanks!


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## jamwerks (Jul 6, 2021)

Mike T said:


> Hah, well I wouldn't put much stock in my opinions but what little I've heard so far is all right. I have misgivings about the Synchron libraries' mics being time-aligned out of the box but it seems simple enough to reverse engineer that. I'm interested to hear what more demos/walkthroughs reveal.


Pretty sure all sample libraries have time aligned the different mic positions. Not sure that it could be any other way.


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Ben,
> 
> I don't understand this detail, so the mics are time-aligned, what is the downside of this ? why would one need to set different delay values for the mics ?
> 
> Thanks.


Well, there is no downside to this as long as you can set the delay, and this is possible in the player.
This is a great feature to change the room/space impression and can alter the sound quite significantly.

Important: You don't have to set the original delay times to each mic as it will often not sound as good.
In fact, often the time difference will be aligned or changed when recording an orchestra.
The exact technical details of what happens when mixing multiple room mics with different delay values are beyond my knowledge, but you only need to hear what happens and go with what you like. Rule of thumb: 1ms delay equals 0,3m.

I used different values for my mixer presets as well. For example "Golden Times" does not use any delay to sound more flat, "Nostalgic" will add 21ms to all mics except the close ones for a greater spacial impression, and "Enraged" will do the opposite and delay the close mics 50ms so I can crank up these mics without soundin gtoo close.


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I'm referring to the 2-second, 4-second, etc dynamic articulations and having them go by note length instead. Thanks!


Such a feature is not implemented, sorry.
You can stretch these, but you have to enter the streatch ratio or use real-time automation to stretch it dynamically.


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> Pretty sure all sample libraries have time aligned the different mic positions. Not sure that it could be any other way.


Well, if your player can't set the delays for each mic separatly, or the library uses mixdowns, it might make sense to keep the delay, or to alter it to taste.
But in this case with the Synchron Brass you can do all these things in the Player's mixer


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> Well, there is no downside to this as long as you can set the delay, and this is possible in the player.
> This is a great feature to change the room/space impression and can alter the sound quite significantly.
> 
> Important: You don't have to set the original delay times to each mic as it will often not sound as good.
> ...


Thanks. So if one doesn't set any delay, and uses multi mics, what does one sacrifice, or miss by not applying the delays ? Will the mix sound more flat ?

Is this delay for the mics also available in Synchron Elite Strings, and Synchron Strings Pro ? or added specifically for the Synchron Brass library ?


----------



## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Thanks. So if one doesn't set any delay, and uses multi mics, what does one sacrifice, or miss by not applying the delays ? Will the mix sound more flat ?
> 
> Is this delay for the mics also available in Synchron Elite Strings, and Synchron Strings Pro ? or added specifically for the Synchron Brass library ?


Well, if you work with the provided mixer presets everything is already setup just fine.
Of course you can alter this easily, and switching on/off this feature will help A/B'ing the difference:





And yes, all Synchron Libraries make use of this feature, it was there form the beginning


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 6, 2021)

@Ben . 

Thanks for the helpful feedback 

OK, I guess I would just have to experiment with various delay values, and see what they do to the mix. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## jaketanner (Jul 6, 2021)

Question about the MID mics...being that they both share the same presets for the A6 horns patch...my BBO MID mic seems to be much harsher than the CLOSE mic, which sounds rather full and warm. Same exact dynamics...is this something that will translate over to SY Brass?


----------



## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Question about the MID mics...being that they both share the same presets for the A6 horns patch...my BBO MID mic seems to be much harsher than the CLOSE mic, which sounds rather full and warm. Same exact dynamics...is this something that will translate over to SY Brass?


The sections that are already available in BBO are exactly the same samples in Synchron Brass, therefore the discount.


----------



## jaketanner (Jul 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> The sections that are already available in BBO are exactly the same samples in Synchron Brass, therefore the discount.


OK..just not sure why the MID mic sounds like it's closer than the close..harsher and brighter with the same dynamics. I'll have to check if that's the case for the trumpets as well.


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## jamwerks (Jul 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> Well, if your player can't set the delays for each mic separatly, or the library uses mixdowns, it might make sense to keep the delay, or to alter it to taste.
> But in this case with the Synchron Brass you can do all these things in the Player's mixer


When the samples are "chopped", all the mic positions have to line-up, don't they?


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## pinki (Jul 6, 2021)

Yes. Congratulations VSL.


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## Jay Panikkar (Jul 6, 2021)

Sounds superb. This is the Brass library I deserve, but not the one I need right now.


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## CT (Jul 6, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> Pretty sure all sample libraries have time aligned the different mic positions. Not sure that it could be any other way.


Hmm, I haven't come across many that have. You can easily check by listening for the characteristic "slap" sound on something transient-heavy with the closest and most distant mics enabled simultaneously. Why do you think it couldn't be any other way? There is certainly plenty of music recorded without such compensation, in fact I might guess it's the majority approach these days outside certain labels but I don't know for sure. If you're wondering how samples are edited without cutting all of them equivalently, I can't really speak to the methods used by developers, but it does seem to happen. 



Casiquire said:


> Hmm how do you mean regarding the mics?


This is fairly arcane nerdery I've blathered about recently, but it is the process of taking signals from different microphones and eliminating the minor timing differences that result from sound hitting the closer microphones earlier than those which are more distant. It results in a particular sound, which I now realize has played a part in affecting my reactions to the Synchron libraries. However....



Ben said:


> Regarding this: I've talked to our technical sound engineer yesterday about this, and it's right, the mics are time-aligned. But as already mentioned, you can set a delay in the Synchron Player's mixer, and many presets make use of that.
> I might be able to send you the original delay values, in case you want to try these out.


...since Ben has very generously taken the time to look into this, I'm quite keen on trying things out with the compensation removed. I think I'll be getting another Vienna Key soon so I can test some things out.


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## FireGS (Jul 6, 2021)

Mike T said:


> ...since Ben has very generously taken the time to look into this, I'm quite keen on trying things out with the compensation removed.


I'm not really sure that you'd want to do that. I just loaded up a patch of Cellos from Elite strings Sur to Stereo mix, and noticed a "21" delay value in the further mics (surround mics). @Ben correct me if I'm wrong, but that delay number is a "+" in ms, right? Dropping this number to "0" would mean they're more time-aligned, right?

I think the "delay" is something they've added BACK. If you time-align everything (0 delay), you're more prone to phase issues.


----------



## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

FireGS said:


> I'm not really sure that you'd want to do that. I just loaded up a patch of Cellos from Elite strings Sur to Stereo mix, and noticed a "21" delay value in the further mics (surround mics). @Ben correct me if I'm wrong, but that delay number is a "+" in ms, right? Dropping this number to "0" would mean they're more time-aligned, right?
> 
> I think the "delay" is something they've added BACK. If you time-align everything (0 delay), you're more prone to phase issues.


Yes, 0 or using the off switch will make the mic time-aligned.
Still, since we use a phase optimized mic setup you should not get phasing issues with the setting on 0, just a smaller room impression.
21ms will add a bigger spacial impression - but it's not as simple as just slap 21ms on every mic. I can tell from experience the mixer presets take quite some time to create; these are carefully designed, including testing what mic should be delayed and for how much.


----------



## CT (Jul 6, 2021)

All right I see, so by default things are not aligned, but the option is there if desired? And I assume this is approached differently in different presets as you mentioned. Makes sense. The fact that it took time and testing for you to get it right is exactly why I wondered if the engineers had kept records to make things a little easier.


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## FireGS (Jul 6, 2021)

Mike T said:


> All right I see, so by default things are not aligned, but the option is there if desired?


I believe from a purely developer point of view, they're aligned, edited, then "unaligned" after the fact in-engine. So you actually have all the control over delay as you want; as little, or as much.


----------



## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

FireGS said:


> So you actually have all the control over delay as you want; as little, or as much


Yes


----------



## Casiquire (Jul 6, 2021)

Mike T said:


> Hmm, I haven't come across many that have. You can easily check by listening for the characteristic "slap" sound on something transient-heavy with the closest and most distant mics enabled simultaneously. Why do you think it couldn't be any other way? There is certainly plenty of music recorded without such compensation, in fact I might guess it's the majority approach these days outside certain labels but I don't know for sure. If you're wondering how samples are edited without cutting all of them equivalently, I can't really speak to the methods used by developers, but it does seem to happen.
> 
> 
> This is fairly arcane nerdery I've blathered about recently, but it is the process of taking signals from different microphones and eliminating the minor timing differences that result from sound hitting the closer microphones earlier than those which are more distant. It results in a particular sound, which I now realize has played a part in affecting my reactions to the Synchron libraries. However....
> ...


Oh i think i misunderstood, so the "delay" Ben was referring to delays the signals *so that they match*, not *so that more distant mics hit your ear later*. Wouldn't the engineers have aligned the microphones to avoid phasing during recording, so wouldn't the raw un-delayed sound feel more natural? Am i finally catching up to your reasoning here? Thanks for clarifying

Edit: i didn't see all the replies. I think I'm all caught up now. Super interesting conversation!


----------



## FabioA (Jul 6, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I'm referring to the 2-second, 4-second, etc dynamic articulations and having them go by note length instead. Thanks!


If I got the question right: 2, 4 seconds correspond to 4 and 8 beats at 120 bpm (1 full measure and 2 measures at 4/4). If you think like this and you use the Stretch to sync to the BPM of your project, for example 150 bpm, that would mean that the 2 seconds sample is now faster and proportionally still 4 beats. Damn I don't know if I'm able to explain this properly.

Anyway I may be wrong, but I think to remember that all articulations that are meant to be potentially used with the Stretch feature (for example runs in BBO and those crescendos/diminuendos) are recorded with the base tempo in mind of 120 BPM.

Hopefully someone will confirm or deny what I wrote


----------



## Ben (Jul 6, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Wouldn't the engineers have aligned the microphones to avoid phasing during recording


Yes


Casiquire said:


> so wouldn't the raw un-delayed sound feel more natural?


Not necessary. It heavily depends on the mix and the roles of the mics in your mix.
(Btw, as son as a signal has entered a mic it is no longer "natural"  What we perceive as natural is mostly biased by recordings we listen to, and the sound we like. If natural would be the ideal sound we would avoid algorithmic and plate reverbs at all cost  )



Casiquire said:


> the "delay" Ben was referring to delays the signals *so that they match*, not *so that more distant mics hit your ear later*


In most cases you want to set the delay to a time-aligned recording / samples in a way that the mics further away are delayed (again, the original/natural delay does not always produce the best sounding result).
But there are also instances where you might want to do the opposite for some reason (like I did in the "Enraged" mixer preset).


----------



## CT (Jul 6, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> wouldn't the raw un-delayed sound feel more natural?


I did a rough example here. As Ben says, what your ears hear as natural depends somewhat on what type of recording you're used to. If you listen to a lot of DG, it probably sounds more familiar to have everything aligned. The most "natural" is of course sitting in the room, and the closest thing to that in the recording world in my opinion is the Telarc method, where it's a non-issue since there are no close mics used in the first place.


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## FireGS (Jul 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> If natural would be the ideal sound we would avoid algorithmic and plate reverbs at all cost


I prefer most of my instruments all springy and driven electrically through large metal.


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## Mark Schmieder (Jul 7, 2021)

At the bottom of the FAQ's page, there is a copy/paste typo from Synchron Strings:

Is there a way to automatically convert projects made with VI/VI Pro into projects using the Synchron Player?​Unfortunately not, it will take some effort to convert those files. Our suggestion is to print your previous Synchron Strings projects to audio and work with the Synchron Player from now on.


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## Mark Schmieder (Jul 7, 2021)

Due to the new timbre feature, and the unique players (even going beyond Dimension Brass, in some ways), I'm wondering if this library will work well for Jazz, Big Band, Broadway, Klezmer, etc.


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## Mark Schmieder (Jul 7, 2021)

Did the SYNCHRON-ized Dimension Brass price just come down? I have a cached price that is 50% higher than the quote I see tonight. It's the only one I haven't bought yet, but I'm not sure I'll bother now that Synchron Brass is out. Although Volume 2 does include the mutes.


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## RSK (Jul 7, 2021)

I always said this would be a no-brainer for me when it finally came out. Judging by the sound I was not wrong.

Now, where is that debit card......


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## marco berco (Jul 7, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Yea of all the players, Synchron is my favorite. I love using Elite Strings and the BBO stuff! The integration with Vepro and MIR is quite convenient. No performance issues, the libraries feel very optimized on my rig. The player is amazingly flexible, I keep learning new ways of tweaking sounds. And VSL has the best support service I ever received from any company period.
> 
> It will be hard to not buy the Synchron Brass considering the excellent discount for BBO owners. Amusingly, a few days ago I was asking Ben for another strings sale and little did I know that Synchron Brass was coming... well played mate!


I completly agree with you, VSL is turning more a more stunning with incredible Libraries and support. Thums up again !


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## jonathanwright (Jul 7, 2021)

Downloaded earlier and immediately used it all over a project I'm currently working on, removing the brass library I was already using.

It's incredibly versatile. Consistent throughout, and can handle quiet and loud passages easily.

It's also got a lovely smooth sound, even at its loudest.


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## holywilly (Jul 7, 2021)

@Ben I have a quick question, are legato and sustain con fortissimo newly sampled (4 trumpets, 6 horns)? They do not exist in the BBO Kopernikus and Jupiter (maybe I’m wrong).

Also, does Con Fortissimo patch include the dynamic range from the regular sustain/legato? Or it’s just the loudest layer?


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## jamwerks (Jul 7, 2021)

I've been wondering this for a couple of years, and am finally asking. On the cool Trumpet walkthrough by Fabio Amurri, I noticed he had different fader positions for the side-tree & center-tree mics. So I'm wondering:

1) Why is the Center-tree mic stereo (not mono)?
2) What's the reason for not bouncing the three channels into a single stereo signal like all the other devs?
3) Why would I bring up the sides higher than the center ?
4) Why are there no Outrigger mic's? The surround mic's are pointed backwards, correct (?) picking-up the bounce off the front (behind the conductor) wall?

Many thanks!


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## Ben (Jul 7, 2021)

1) it's mono
2) so you have full control over it
3) the center is usually -2 to -3dB compared to L/R tree. But that's just a rule of thumb.
4) There are (High Stereo)


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## jamwerks (Jul 7, 2021)

Ben said:


> 1) it's mono
> 2) so you have full control over it
> 3) the center is usually -2 to -3dB compared to L/R tree. But that's just a rule of thumb.
> 4) There are (High Stereo)


1) It seems to say "stereo" on the mixer, and has a dual meter. Is that just a doubled mono signal?


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## Toecutter (Jul 7, 2021)

Do Synchron Brass owners get any sort of discount when buying Synchron Strings since they are from the same product family? I was hoping for a big strings sale so I can buy SSP (maybe DS too) but this sudden release messed my VSL plans... I could barely resist the trumpets walkthrough, horns next, send help.


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## muziksculp (Jul 7, 2021)

Wonderful sounding brass


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 7, 2021)

Ben said:


> 3) the center is usually -2 to -3dB compared to L/R tree. But that's just a rule of thumb.


That's interesting to know! But just out of curiosity: I can see in the walkthrough that there are different values for the instruments (with up to -8 dB). In a real world scenario you don't have different settings when recording an orchestra. You set the balance once. Always wondered why. And this is not only with VSL, but with other devs, too.


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## Ben (Jul 7, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> 1) It seems to say "stereo" on the mixer, and has a dual meter. Is that just a doubled mono signal?


Thats the name of the output channel (routing).


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## Ben (Jul 7, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Do Synchron Brass owners get any sort of discount when buying Synchron Strings since they are from the same product family? I was hoping for a big strings sale so I can buy SSP (maybe DS too) but this sudden release messed my VSL plans... I could barely resist the trumpets walkthrough, horns next, send help.


Yes! If you buy the Synchron Package you will get an additional discount


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## Ben (Jul 7, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> That's interesting to know! But just out of curiosity: I can see in the walkthrough that there are different values for the instruments (with up to -8 dB). In a real world scenario you don't have different settings when recording an orchestra. You set the balance once. Always wondered why. And this is not only with VSL, but with other devs, too.


Well, it depends. If you don't record all sections at the same time (happens some times) you also might use different decca tree settings when mixing the end-result.
Flexibility (because you can, so why not?) + when recording everything at once the players listen to each other and adapt to the overall sound. This does not happen to the same degree when being recorded separatly, as well as with samples. Here you have to do this in post.



Pixelpoet1985 said:


> with up to -8 dB


Well, the Decca tree is not based on a mathematical model, unlike many other recording techniques. There is the rule of thumb that the center mic should be set up to 2-3db lower then the L/R mics, but while it might be useful when setting up the Decca tree for recording, for working in post with samples I am free to do as I like. And since I create a mix with all the other mics available, and not only Decca+outriggers+close, I mix it so I like the result of all mics.
My rule of thumb: Is the instrument not present enough in center? Crank up the mid mic. Do you want to have less presence in the center? Turn it down.


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## Toecutter (Jul 7, 2021)

Ben said:


> Yes! If you buy the Synchron Package you will get an additional discount


I'm a bit confused by the webiste you linked, this is a big Synchron pack that does not include the Brass. What I was wondering is if I buy the Synchron Brass now, do I get an additional discount for SSP?


----------



## Ben (Jul 7, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> I'm a bit confused by the webiste you linked, this is a big Synchron pack that does not include the Brass. What I was wondering is if I buy the Synchron Brass now, do I get an additional discount for SSP?


Well, during the intro sale the new libraries are not included in the complete package, but they will after the intro period. Will it lower the price for you? Probably a few euros.

There is no direct discount for any other library, except the entire bundle.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 7, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> What I was wondering is if I buy the Synchron Brass now, do I get an additional discount for SSP?


I have SSP, and I'm not getting any additional discount for Synchron Brass because I own SSP, so the reverse must be true.


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## Ben (Jul 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I have SSP, and I'm not getting any additional discount for Synchron Brass because I own SSP, so the reverse must be true.


The intro sales price is definitly a better deal then the bundle upgrade after the intro sale.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 7, 2021)

@Ben,

Does getting the Full version of Synch. Brass offer a lot more sonic sculpting flexibility compared to the Standard version, or just a minor difference ? I'm trying to decide on this detail as usual.


----------



## Toecutter (Jul 7, 2021)

Ben said:


> Well, during the intro sale the new libraries are not included in the complete package, but they will after the intro period. Will it lower the price for you? Probably a few euros.
> 
> There is no direct discount for any other library, except the entire bundle.


Thanks, that makes more sense! In my case that I already own Elite Strings and will probably buy SB, if I decided to go all in Synchron later and buy the full package, do I get a different price or I'd need to contact support first?


----------



## Ben (Jul 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> @Ben,
> 
> Does getting the Full version of Synch. Brass offer a lot more sonic sculpting flexibility compared to the Standard version, or just a minor difference ? I'm trying to decide on this detail as usual.







__





VSL Synchron Brass


Remember to update to the newest Vienna Synchron Player (ver. from 21-07-06) to fully enjoy the Timbre Adjust parameter ;) Great sounding library! Congrats VSL Team!




vi-control.net


----------



## Zanshin (Jul 7, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Do Synchron Brass owners get any sort of discount when buying Synchron Strings since they are from the same product family? I was hoping for a big strings sale so I can buy SSP (maybe DS too) but this sudden release messed my VSL plans... I could barely resist the trumpets walkthrough, horns next, send help.


Waiting for a specific VSL sale can be maddening. I bought Synchron Strings I, then wanted DS as well. Waited. Waited. SSP came out, surprised me but the upgrade/crossgrade from Strings I was super reasonable. Finally gave up on DS - "I don't need it". DS finally went on sale this past March, I tried to resist but bought it. Elite Strings came out 6 weeks later, tried to resist but the detache stuff was too sexy lol (and Elite has become my favorite of the four).

Just ordered Brass, my first non-string VSL library. I am happy I resisted buying any of the BBO stuff, this is the format I'd rather have it in. Patience is tough though!


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 7, 2021)

Ben said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. So, getting the Full Synch. Brass version is the way to go. 

Now, if I get it, can I feel comfortable deleting all my other Brass Sample Libraries to make room on my SSDs. ?  

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Toecutter (Jul 7, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Waiting for a specific VSL sale can be maddening. I bought Synchron Strings I, then wanted DS as well. Waited. Waited. SSP came out, surprised me but the upgrade/crossgrade from Strings I was super reasonable. Finally gave up on DS - "I don't need it". DS finally went on sale this past March, I tried to resist but bought it. Elite Strings came out 6 weeks later, tried to resist but the detache stuff was too sexy lol (and Elite has become my favorite of the four).
> 
> Just ordered Brass, my first non-string VSL library. I am happy I resisted buying any of the BBO stuff, this is the format I'd rather have it in. Patience is tough though!


I like you already! We need to start a sample library self-help group XD


----------



## Ben (Jul 7, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Thanks, that makes more sense! In my case that I already own Elite Strings and will probably buy SB, if I decided to go all in Synchron later and buy the full package, do I get a different price or I'd need to contact support first?


The upgrade price will be directly shown on the product page of the bundle (make sure you are logged in!).


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## Ben (Jul 7, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> I am happy I resisted buying any of the BBO stuff, this is the format I'd rather have it in. Patience is tough though!


Well, so far if parts of it made it into a Synchron library, or were taken from a Synchron library, the product in question was further discounted when upgrading to it. So, one less reason to resist BBO!


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## jaketanner (Jul 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Does getting the Full version of Synch. Brass offer a lot more sonic sculpting flexibility compared to the Standard version, or just a minor difference


I am as well..and since I have the BBO brass to try this with, there are some advantages for sure. But I also tried using the 4 mics in BBO that would come with standard, and they are VERY useable without the surround mics. I am thinking of starting with Standard.


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## Toecutter (Jul 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Now, if I get it, can I feel comfortable deleting all my other Brass Sample Libraries to make room on my SSDs. ?


Jokes aside this is exactly what I think is going to happen after I get SB. I tested all my trumpet libraries against the walkthrough... they didn't hold up very well. Pains me to say but even Aaron's is in imminent danger.


----------



## jaketanner (Jul 7, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> I tested all my trumpet libraries against the walkthrough


Aside from Aaron, what were the others...so that I don't need to do the same.. LOL. I have Century Brass Bundle, BBCSO Pro, Caspian...that's pretty much it. Aside from the BBO Brass that is.


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## Toecutter (Jul 7, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Aside from Aaron, what were the others...so that I don't need to do the same.. LOL. I have Century Brass Bundle, BBCSO Pro, Caspian...that's pretty much it. Aside from the BBO Brass that is.


I'll answer you in the sample talk thread! Too many to drop in the commercial announcement XD


----------



## Zanshin (Jul 7, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Jokes aside this is exactly what I think is going to happen after I get SB. I tested all my trumpet libraries against the walkthrough... they didn't hold up very well. Pains me to say but even Aaron's is in imminent danger.


I foolishly thought I was done with brass and woodwinds after Aarons. I'm now pumped for Synchron Woodwinds LOL.

I demo'd the BBO woodwinds back when and they were fantastic - so assuming there will be a similar Synchron package for woodwinds - I almost certainly will bite.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 7, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> I am as well..and since I have the BBO brass to try this with, there are some advantages for sure. But I also tried using the 4 mics in BBO that would come with standard, and they are VERY useable without the surround mics. I am thinking of starting with Standard.


I think I will be getting the Synch. Brass Full version. 

I only got VSL BBO Zodiac, I didn't get any of the other BBO titles.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 7, 2021)

Ben said:


> Well, it depends. If you don't record all sections at the same time (happens some times) you also might use different decca tree settings when mixing the end-result.
> Flexibility (because you can, so why not?) + when recording everything at once the players listen to each other and adapt to the overall sound. This does not happen to the same degree when being recorded separatly, as well as with samples. Here you have to do this in post.
> 
> 
> ...


Very informative! Thanks.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Now, if I get it, can I feel comfortable deleting all my other Brass Sample Libraries to make room on my SSDs. ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


There is chance that something isn‘t working the way you want or expected to. We know. 😂🙈 Better keep them.


----------



## jaketanner (Jul 7, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> I'll answer you in the sample talk thread! Too many to drop in the commercial announcement XD


Send me a PM also if you want.


----------



## jonathanwright (Jul 7, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Jokes aside this is exactly what I think is going to happen after I get SB. I tested all my trumpet libraries against the walkthrough... they didn't hold up very well. Pains me to say but even Aaron's is in imminent danger.


The trumpets in SB are lovely. From warm to clear and bright, without any phasing or unpleasant resonance.

The shorts in the whole library are great, especially the agiles. No wonky start times.


----------



## Loerpert (Jul 7, 2021)

Could someone make a demo of the solo horn legato's? Very curious about those particularly. :D


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## Robert_G (Jul 7, 2021)

I'm concerned also that this may eliminate the need for my other brass libraries....with the exception of Cinematic Studio Brass of course...


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## SlHarder (Jul 7, 2021)

The Giant Tutti Brass preset is just so well balanced between sections. Everything is seamless as you move up and down the keyboard. Other sample libraries attempt this but I always find there are obvious transitions where sections are overlapping, noticeable fading in/out. Giant Tutti is one seamless brass group awaiting your commands, no matter what articulation you are using.


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## muziksculp (Jul 7, 2021)

SlHarder said:


> The Giant Tutti Brass preset is just so well balanced between sections. Everything is seamless as you move up and down the keyboard. Other sample libraries attempt this but I always find there are obvious transitions where sections are overlapping, noticeable fading in/out. Giant Tutti is one seamless brass group awaiting your commands, no matter what articulation you are using.


Thanks for the positive feedback. But you are not helping control my GAS.


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## SlHarder (Jul 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the positive feedback But you are not helping control my GAS


During my 40 year career as a university auditorium technical director I had the opportunity to hear a lot of world class orchestral brass. Right out of the "box" SynBrass takes me back to those days.

I have CineB core sonore descant and pro, I have EW SO and HO, none of those have so easily taken me back to the sense of being in a live room with excellent musicians.


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## AllanH (Jul 7, 2021)

Synchron brass sounds fantastic - a wonderfully clean and resonant tone. I'll have to look at this even though I was "done" with adding more large libraries.


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## Michael Antrum (Jul 7, 2021)

There were some bits in the demo's that sounded very like that wonderful John Barry brass tone.....Really looking forward to getting this downloaded.

I won't be able to get on this until the weekend, and even then I have an appointment on Sunday evening......

But we must keep up the pressure on VSL for a Synchron Harp - no sleep for you VSL !


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## muziksculp (Jul 7, 2021)

Love the way John Barry writes for Brass


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## ProfoundSilence (Jul 7, 2021)

@Ben 

How much are each section? Or is that no longer a thing with synchron


----------



## Ben (Jul 7, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> @Ben
> 
> How much are each section? Or is that no longer a thing with synchron


If you are talking about purchasing instruments separately: This is not possible with Synchron Brass (except the parts that are available as BBO libraries: H-K + Z)


----------



## DaddyO (Jul 7, 2021)

What is the SSD footprint of the Standard version of Synchron Brass?


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 7, 2021)

DaddyO said:


> What is the SSD footprint of the Standard version of Synchron Brass?



Download File Size26.1 GBInstalled File Size75.5 GB


----------



## SlHarder (Jul 7, 2021)

DaddyO said:


> What is the SSD footprint of the Standard version of Synchron Brass?


75.5 gb, at the bottom of this page





__





BRASS - Vienna Symphonic Library


Synchron Brass offers a wide variety of articulations and phrases, and features like Timbre Adjust, integrated time-stretching, and the Synchron Player’s release sample technology increase its flexibility and expressive possibilities immensely, allowing you to easily manipulate samples in...




www.vsl.co.at


----------



## Ben (Jul 7, 2021)

JTB said:


> I assume the solo trombones are just that, solo?. Because on the VSL site when I click the tab, it shows tenor trombone, bass trombone and cimbasso followed by the articulations.
> should these have their own tab or are they actually an ensemble?.


These 3 instruments have the same articulations, but of course they are solo instruments.


----------



## RMH (Jul 7, 2021)

I have many brass library… as like someone. I don't think I need it anymore, but I'm curious. What should I do?🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Ben (Jul 7, 2021)

RMH said:


> I have many brass library… as like someone. I don't think I need it anymore, but I'm curious. What should I do?🤣🤣🤣🤣


You might have many, but you don't have this one... _yet_.


----------



## SlHarder (Jul 7, 2021)

Ben said:


> These 3 instruments have the same articulations,


But not the same keyswitches, based on my hours long labor of love building artic maps today for SynBrass, but they are close enough that tenor becomes a template for the other two.


----------



## dhlkid (Jul 7, 2021)

Is full library better than standard in Synchron Brass?


----------



## RMH (Jul 7, 2021)

dhlkid said:


> Is full library better than standard in Synchron Brass?


I think the full version is better.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Jul 7, 2021)

Got my custom price and paid just now; will probably receive keys tomorrow. Fortunately, I have more than twice as much available space on my fastest SSD as what is needed for the full edition.


----------



## holywilly (Jul 7, 2021)

Just bought it! Now it’s time to re-arrange my template.


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## Zedcars (Jul 7, 2021)

I was playing with this last night (full version). I had a mothballed mock-up I started 3 years ago and started to replace the dodgy brass with SB. It immediately brought it to life. Bright clear trumpets that just sound real with little programming effort. Lots of options to alter the timbre of the instrument and the room presets take the headache out of all that tweaking.

Might post a snippet of my mock-up at some point (Superman theme).


----------



## Consona (Jul 8, 2021)

Ben said:


> If you are talking about purchasing instruments separately: This is not possible with Synchron Brass (except the parts that are available as BBO libraries: H-K + Z)


So the Trumpets a4 in Kopernikus are _exactly the same_ samples as those in Synchron Brass?

Hmmmmm


----------



## ptram (Jul 8, 2021)

SlHarder said:


> But not the same keyswitches, based on my hours long labor of love building artic maps today for SynBrass, but they are close enough that tenor becomes a template for the other two.


Something I usually do, with Synchron libraries, is to move the keyswitches for the first two branches down to the first two octaves. C-1 to A0 should be out of the range of any instrument (maybe there is an A0 in some lower brass?). So the same template may work for all the instruments of the same family.

Then, there may be other differences breaking the similarity; if they are just additions, they can be in the general map, and be only used when available.

Paolo


----------



## jonathanwright (Jul 8, 2021)

@Ben - apologies if this is something obvious, but I noticed a couple of instruments have a 'copy' of articulations.

For example Bass Tuba has Staccato and Staccato (copy), Trombones a9 has Long notes and Long n. (copy). What are they for?


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh (Jul 8, 2021)

Consona said:


> So the Trumpets a4 in Kopernikus are _exactly the same_ samples as those in Synchron Brass?
> 
> Hmmmmm


There’s a lot of overlap with the BBO Brass. It’s like bonus material.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh (Jul 8, 2021)

jonathanwright said:


> @Ben - apologies if this is something obvious, but I noticed a couple of instruments have a 'copy' of articulations.
> 
> For example Bass Tuba has Staccato and Staccato (copy), Trombones a9 has Long notes and Long n. (copy). What are they for?


Basically it is in the same cell as “short staccato” in the trumpets/horns, that way you can paste midi regions from instrument to instrument and the key switches will match.


----------



## jonathanwright (Jul 8, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Basically it is in the same cell as “short staccato” in the trumpets/horns, that way you can paste midi regions from instrument to instrument and the key switches will match.


Aha I see, great, thanks Stephen.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh (Jul 8, 2021)

Consona said:


> Wow!
> 
> So who's gonna make all the Star Trek, Star Wars, Jurassic Park and Hook mock-ups?!


🤠


----------



## Saxer (Jul 8, 2021)

I tried to purchase Synchron Brass but it's not expensive enough.

Really?

Yes.

I have two 500€ VSL vouchers purchased on a sale for cases like this: new library, simply don't thinking about the money, just get it.

My price at VSL for Synchron Brass Pro is 399,-€ as an owner of BigBang complete. OK.
But when I want to buy it simply says: "The value of your voucher is higher than the content you basket".
Yes, I know that. I want to use 399,- of my 500€ to pay. Keep the rest on the voucher!

But the VSL pay system simply stops working at that point. So I asked the VSL support team. One day later they answered: "Vouchers are for 500€ and above only. Buy something more expensive." - Eehm, really? I can't pay with a 500€ voucher something that is cheaper than 500€? Is that even legal? No return? Even as a remaining VSL credit for my next shopping?

Ok, anyway, I bite the bullet and buy something else too. So I decided to get the update to the Vienna Suite Pro. That's 130,-€ so I'm at 529,-€ now. Adding the voucher code sets the amount to 29,-€ - that's fine.

Now I want to purchase the 29,-€ via PayPal. I click on "next page" to purchase and get the error message: "Something is wrong with your credit card." Yepp... it's an old credit card and not longer valid. But I don't want to pay with that old credit card. I want to use PayPal. Ok... I click on "PayPal" - it works... but now the voucher isn't recognized any more. PayPal asks me to pay 529,- €!
I did this complete turnaround five times... always the same dead end. No chance to get any use of my voucher!

So I'm sorry. I have to wait until VSL offers something that costs EXACTLY 500€ or 1000€ so I can use my vouchers for that. For now: sorry, too cheap! I'm out.


----------



## Ben (Jul 8, 2021)

@Saxer Sorry to hear. Let's solve that via PM, I'll talk to my colleagues and I'm sure we can figure something out.


----------



## Zedcars (Jul 8, 2021)

Saxer said:


> I tried to purchase Synchron Brass but it's not expensive enough.
> 
> Really?
> 
> ...


Well that sounds a bit sucky. Hopefully Ben can help you get it sorted.


----------



## ptram (Jul 8, 2021)

Saxer said:


> I have two 500€ VSL vouchers purchased on a sale for cases like this: new library, simply don't thinking about the money, just get it.


I usually get the 100€ vouchers, because I’m sure I can use them in most situations. Otherwise, I just keep them apart for the next purchase. Shame there isn’t a partial payment allowed.

As for the remaining part over the vouchers, I can confirm that PayPal has been accepted during my purchases (including this one). Maybe it is better to contact VSL directly?

EDIT: Sorry, I see Ben already answered while I was writing.

Paolo


----------



## Saxer (Jul 8, 2021)

Ben is taking care... looking for a solution. Thanks!


----------



## handz (Jul 8, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> 🤠



Thanx for the example. Some parts sound good but the high notes are very lifeless and sterile sounding (a common VSL problem for me )


----------



## Saxer (Jul 8, 2021)

handz said:


> Thanx for the example. Some parts sound good but the high notes are very lifeless and sterile sounding (a common VSL problem for me )


If you use the right articulations (and there are tons of) you can get a vivid performance without any problem. Instead of sustains there are a lot of dynamics, sfz, crescendos etc. - if you don't want to use the modwheel. And it's extremely helpful that VSL doesn't have any envelopes baked in into articulations that are supposed to be dynamic controlled by modwheel (or any other controller). If you play long notes without CC-riding the VSL's are lifeless. Like any real instrument can be played in a boring way. But that's what the CC's are for: performance. There's no prerecorded envelope working against you like in Spitfire longs/legatos (exception: BBCSO). So if VSL sounds sterile it is performed that way.


----------



## jamwerks (Jul 8, 2021)

handz said:


> Thanx for the example. Some parts sound good but the high notes are very lifeless and sterile sounding (a common VSL problem for me )


I had the same impression. He said he turned off velocity crossfade iinm, that might be why?


----------



## Giovanni dall Camera (Jul 8, 2021)

I think it just isn’t a good mock-up- which is kind of a slippery slope with Star Wars main theme, as it has been done so excellently and is very well known. This is not even in the same league.

Listening to the library, I think it should be able to pull off a much better Star Wars sound. But I will only know for sure, if I decide to buy it. Most of the demos weren’t so helpful with that decision, unfortunately! I hope for all the walkthroughs to be available before the intro period ends.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh (Jul 8, 2021)

"Lifeless" as a descriptor for “high Cs on a Bb trumpet” are literally incompatible statements. There is an extremely limited dynamic range up there, not to mention serious endurance issues presented when this piece is done with live players. The note is either hit strongly, or not. Trumpets are not string instruments guys.

Listen to a live performance, A- how soft it is compared to the 1977 recording, B- there's no _cresc_ or _decresc_ on those high Cs... not in the score, not in the live performance, and not in Blakus' rendering, and not in Sammy's rendering... so what are you all even talking about?


----------



## Noeticus (Jul 8, 2021)

Awesome, again!!!


----------



## Noeticus (Jul 8, 2021)

Ahhhh! If only Holst were alive to hear this, I'm sure he would love it!!!


----------



## synergy543 (Jul 8, 2021)

@Stephen Limbaugh - The VSL Synchron Brass is superb, and the performance is excellent....but the Blakus head turn is absolutely priceless! Touché!
​


----------



## matthieuL (Jul 9, 2021)

Hello Ben,

Is a volume 2 with mutes planned ? I know developpers don't like to unveil their plans, but personaly I might not buy Synchron Brass if mutes never release. According to me, we can live without sordinos for strings, but it's a little harder to live without mutes for brass.
Thanks !


----------



## Ben (Jul 9, 2021)

matthieuL said:


> Hello Ben,
> 
> Is a volume 2 with mutes planned ? I know developpers don't like to unveil their plans, but personaly I might not buy Synchron Brass if mutes never release. According to me, we can live without sordinos for strings, but it's a little harder to live without mutes for brass.
> Thanks !


Sorry, can't comment on that.


----------



## ptram (Jul 9, 2021)

Ben said:


> Sorry, can't comment on that.


Mute on mutes!

Paolo


----------



## Zedcars (Jul 9, 2021)

matthieuL said:


> Hello Ben,
> 
> Is a volume 2 with mutes planned ? I know developpers don't like to unveil their plans, but personaly I might not buy Synchron Brass if mutes never release. According to me, we can live without sordinos for strings, but it's a little harder to live without mutes for brass.
> Thanks !


These EQ muted brass simulations work really well...

(I hope it's ok to link to this in this commercial thread.)






Mute your brass!


Some time ago I created EQ presets for FabFilter Pro-Q 2 meant to simulate brass mutes, since a lot of brass libraries either come without any mutes whatsoever or the muted content is limited. So here's a bunch of filters for your brass! Think of 'em like the simulated Con Sordino that many...




vi-control.net


----------



## matthieuL (Jul 9, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> These EQ muted brass simulations work really well...
> 
> (I hope it's ok to link to this in this commercial thread.)
> 
> ...


Thanks ! I will try it.


----------



## ptram (Jul 9, 2021)

matthieuL said:


> Thanks ! I will try it.


The one called Sordina, from LibreWave, works very well on the other VSL brass. The real samples are more realistic, but this software is very close to the real one.

Even with real sample, I would in any case get it, because it adds a lot of flexibility to the original samples.

Paolo


----------



## jamwerks (Jul 9, 2021)

Of course mutes will come. And also more instruments (Euphonium, Flugelhorn, Cornet, Bass Trumpet, Contrebass Trombone, Contrebass Tuba).


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Jul 9, 2021)

I was surprised when I opened it up briefly in Synchron Player and saw that it already includes Cimbasso, which I use more frequently than one might expect.


----------



## jamwerks (Jul 9, 2021)

Setting things up now, and trying to use the controls & faders wisely. It occured to me that Vel XF & Timbre Adjust could be on the same fader. Any downsides to this I'm not seeing?


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Jul 9, 2021)

I guess they're achieving roughly the same purpose (or at least have overlap in intent), and that the curves would be the same? Someone more experienced and knowledgeable can chime in, but it sounds likely to be OK, and I think I may have done this in some of my own presets (if I can remember which ones, as it likely would have been something like SYNCHRON-ized Flute or Oboe).


----------



## jamwerks (Jul 9, 2021)

Once I set up all my CC's in the Edit and Perform tabs, is there any way to paste that on other instances?


----------



## FabioA (Jul 9, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> Setting things up now, and trying to use the controls & faders wisely. It occured to me that Vel XF & Timbre Adjust could be on the same fader. Any downsides to this I'm not seeing?


That you never experience the natural brilliance of the samples but for the loudest dynamic. I would definitely not recommend that. I would use it more like how you use cc11, for example when you want an even softer fade in or fading out.
But basically, I think the two controllers shouldn't be linked.


----------



## Flyo (Jul 9, 2021)

The only fact that VSL was not for iLok system and had so so so many libraries are overwhelming to me. I don’t really understand their huge names catalog. Sounds wonderful, I keep waiting iLok compatibility. And saying that I lost so many chances to buy them with good discounts


----------



## Noeticus (Jul 9, 2021)

Most likely... there will be future specials.


----------



## SlHarder (Jul 9, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> Setting things up now, and trying to use the controls & faders wisely. It occured to me that Vel XF & Timbre Adjust could be on the same fader.


That comment speaks to the almost limitless control the Synchron player allows the user. Other library players seem very walled in and starved when compared to Synchron.

The consistency of articulation structure across multiple VSL Synchron libraries, plus very consistent matching of levels and mic environments, helps the user develop a very efficient workflow. 

Synchron is an "ecosystem" that one can easily live within.


----------



## holywilly (Jul 9, 2021)

@Ben,

Horns a6 in Synchron Brass is missing "rip" articulation where is included in BBO Jupiter? I thought it's identical to BBO Jupiter.


----------



## yellow_lupine (Jul 10, 2021)

Yes, there is some sort of misalignment between BBO Brass articulations and Synchron Brass articulations, at least from what I can read from VSL products contents pages. Why?

Rips are not the only one missing, and not only horns are misaligned, soft articulations too and also swells (have swells been renamed to crescendo?) and trombones.
Can you help @Ben?
Thanks


----------



## Ben (Jul 10, 2021)

holywilly said:


> @Ben,
> 
> Horns a6 in Synchron Brass is missing "rip" articulation where is included in BBO Jupiter? I thought it's identical to BBO Jupiter.


Answered already in the other thread: It's there in the Patch-List, I'll ask my colleague why it is missing in the instrument preset.


----------



## Ben (Jul 10, 2021)

yellow_lupine said:


> (have swells been renamed to crescendo?)


Yes. And my guess: Soft legato is now integrated in regular legato.


----------



## Ben (Jul 10, 2021)

The next walkthrough is available: Horns!


----------



## StillLife (Jul 10, 2021)

I am really a beginner in using Brass in my music, but I love VSL (and its combi with Studio One). Do you think Synchron Brass is a versatile library, or mainly meant for cinematic scores?


----------



## holywilly (Jul 10, 2021)

StillLife said:


> I am really a beginner in using Brass in my music, but I love VSL (and its combi with Studio One). Do you think Synchron Brass is a versatile library, or mainly meant for cinematic scores?


One of the best and versatile orchestral brass libraries ever, very easy to work with, highly recommended.


----------



## StillLife (Jul 10, 2021)

holywilly said:


> One of the best and versatile orchestral brass libraries ever, very easy to work with, highly recommended.


Even for pop/singer-songwriter stuff? And if so, I'd gather the standard lib will be enough?


----------



## SlHarder (Jul 10, 2021)

StillLife said:


> I'd gather the standard lib will be enough?


The Std does provide the RoomMix presets, which utilize ALL of the mics mixed down together. The Full gives you ALL the mics individually controlled. You can always purchase Full for the price difference from Std. That difference will be cheapest during the intro period.


----------



## Ben (Jul 13, 2021)




----------



## Woodie1972 (Jul 13, 2021)

Great mock-up of 'Also sprach Zarstustra'!

I have one question: why is the tenor trombone limited in its upper range? It stops at A4, but this is nowhere near the maximum range of the instrument. Don't get me wrong: I don't want or like it when players (or sampled instruments) are forced to play in the upper region all the time, but if I get the crazy idea to mock-up the Bolero by Ravel f.e. I won't be able to have the trombone solo performed by Synchron Brass.
It's no criticism, just something I wonder.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Jul 13, 2021)

I don't have a score handy or the time to search one out at the moment, but am wondering if Ravel switched to Alto Trombone for any of those parts? That piece does seem to cycle through some instrument voices that aren't often used.


----------



## Woodie1972 (Jul 13, 2021)

Good one, you might be right with that. But still, the Bolero was just the first piece that came to mind. Nowadays skilled trombone players easily play much higher than the A4 of the library, hence my question.
Also Bass trombone can go about a sixth lower than the sampled version in Synchron Brass. Not the most ideal region, but it's there for sure and with a good player it can give great results. Of course, in more classical writing the Bass trombone is more a 3rd trombone playing in the middle and higher register, but in modern film music it's a different cup of tea.


----------



## ptram (Jul 13, 2021)

Woodie1972 said:


> Also Bass trombone can go about a sixth lower than the sampled version in Synchron Brass.


The range can be modified in Synchron Player. It will be transposed notes, and not real sampled ones, but it should work up to a point.

However, the extended range can overlap the keyswitches. If you want the bass tuba to go down to D1 or even Bb0, t will meet the lower keyswitches

It's easy to edit them, but then you will have to also edit the expression maps/articulation sets.

Paolo


----------



## Jack Weaver (Jul 13, 2021)

ptram said:


> The range can be modified in Synchron Player. it will be transposed notes, and not real sampled ones, but it should work up to a point.
> 
> However, the extended range can overlap the keyswitches. If you want the bass tuba to go down to D1 or even Bb0, t will meet the lower keyswitches


Hmmm, I've only been able to edit them a semi-tone. In the Edit tab there's a section called Tuning with sub-heading of Octave, Semi and Cent. So far I've only gotten Cents to change the pitch ( and that only changes the pitch + or - a semitone). Octave and Semi seem only to change the position of the keyrange display - not the pitch of the notes. 

I am doing something wrong?

.


----------



## Ben (Jul 13, 2021)

Jack Weaver said:


> I am doing something wrong?


Here you go:


----------



## SlHarder (Jul 13, 2021)

Ben said:


> Here you go:


The magic little double headed arrow, for those times that the instrument preset key range quits just a couple of notes shy of where your perfect piano sketch has taken your perfect melody. To my ear the provided tranposed notes have always been "good enough".


----------



## holywilly (Jul 13, 2021)

Ben said:


> Here you go:


Is it possible to expand the range globally per instrument, or we have to do it per articulation?


----------



## Ben (Jul 13, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Is it possible to expand the range globally per instrument, or we have to do it per articulation?


Per articulation.


----------



## Woodie1972 (Jul 13, 2021)

Thanks for the replies. Good to know there is some sort of workaround, but to me it still leaves the question unanswered why the instruments are designed this way in the first place, leaving the user behind with the need to make changes in the basic lay-out to get the desired notes, but with transposed samples, which is not always giving the best result. 
I have a lot of VSL and know they always do their best to give us users the best sampled instruments, but now I run into a really strange decision to stop at certain notes whilst the real instrument goes (much) higher or lower, so the user is limited in what normally can be written, but now suddenly is out of range.
Again, I'm not complaining, it's just something I really wonder.


----------



## Ben (Jul 13, 2021)

Sorry, I don't know as well. But you could try asking our support (I'm mostly unavailable today, so you will proabaly get a faster answer this way).


----------



## José Herring (Jul 14, 2021)

Ben said:


> The next walkthrough is available: Horns!



I like it. Are they two different types of horns? Horn 1 sound more like the Viennese Horn, and Horn 2 sounds more like the German style horns used.


----------



## Jack Weaver (Jul 14, 2021)

Ben said:


> Here you go:


Oh yeah. Got it now, thanks!

.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Jul 14, 2021)

bought it but idk when ill actually get to use it. 

work work work work work work work $$$$


----------



## Casiquire (Jul 14, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> bought it but idk when ill actually get to use it.
> 
> work work work work work work work $$$$


I feel that!


----------



## kmm08 (Jul 14, 2021)

Having constant random crashes when using Synchron player latest version (v.2037 downloaded 07/13/21). Just changing presets randomly crashes both the standalone version as well as the plugin version in VEPro 7.

Attached are Synchron Player logs form today, Crash Reports from Synchron Player & VEPro7, and some of the user presets I created and been using. 

It first seemed to be primarily happening when editing user presets, but it also crashes upon just changing rests at random intervals. 

Been using with Synchron Brass which sounds nice, but can't keep dealing with the crashing issues.

(Running on a Mac Pro 10,14.6 Mojave, 48GB memory, streaming off (2) Samsung Pro 4Tb internal SSD's)


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Jul 14, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I feel that!




This pay check so far: 96 hours first week, 76 hours 2nd week. 

Worst part is, everything extra at this point goes mostly to taxes LOL


----------



## ptram (Jul 14, 2021)

@Ben , I add my vote to adding the missing range and reviewing the default keyswitches to make them fit. I’m one of those who use the full range everytime. Usually, I would have made my own presets, but having the expression maps natively in Dorico makes me prefer to use the standard programming.

Paolo


----------



## Pedro Camacho (Jul 15, 2021)

@Ben Congratulations in this release!!


----------



## artinro (Jul 15, 2021)

Sounding great so far folks. @FabioA, hoping to hear some bones and tuba walkthroughs from you soon!


----------



## Loerpert (Jul 15, 2021)

@Ben Is there a way to map all the articulations you want in 1 tree instead of having them "nested" (Articulation, type, speed). I use BRSO Articulate plugin in FL Studio and the "nested" thing makes it kinda hard to use for my current workflow :(. So for example:

- Legato Regular
- Legato Con fortissimo
- Staccato short
- Portato
- ...etc


----------



## SomeGuy (Jul 15, 2021)

Forgive me if I'm missing something, but are all the BBO brass patches included in Synchron Brass? If so, I can't seem to find the "Legato Soft" patches from BBO in Synchron Brass.


----------



## JonS (Jul 15, 2021)

Ben said:


> Differnt players each using their instrument. The sound difference is quite significant. Especially with the trumpets it's awesome how different especially the trumpets are, so you can use the one that fits the current style better.


Synchron Brass Full Library sounds phenomenal!! Great work!! I am so glad I got it!!


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 15, 2021)

JonS said:


> Synchron Brass Full Library sounds phenomenal!! Great work!! I am so glad I got it!!


Thanks for the positive feedback. I'm looking forward to buy the full version before the Intro price expires. 

Enjoy VSL Synchron Brass


----------



## SlHarder (Jul 15, 2021)

Loerpert said:


> Is there a way to map all the articulations you want in 1 tree instead of having them "nested"


Yes you can.

These 2 vids take that idea further, each user has a different goal in mind for their customizations.

Skip to 4:46 for the meat and potatoes of Synchron setup.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 15, 2021)

Hi @Ben ,

Any hope that VSL will update VE-Pro 7 to be able to offer bidirectional communication with Studio One Pro 5, to automatically reflect the Sound-Variations on a Slave Machine to Studio One, just like when using it Sychron Player inside Studio One ? 

This would be a major improvement, especially when hosting Synchron Libraries via VE-Pro 7 on a Slave machine. 

Maybe you can mention this to your VSL VE-Pro Development team. It would really be great to have this functionality. 

I know there are other ways to get the initial preset articulations into Studio One, but if one changes anything, or creates custom articulation trees, they would need to be manually re-created in Studio One. Which is a bit of a pain, compared to the way it works inside S1Pro via a bi-directional system that reflects the changes automatically. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Ben (Jul 15, 2021)

Loerpert said:


> @Ben Is there a way to map all the articulations you want in 1 tree instead of having them "nested" (Articulation, type, speed).


Yes, you can copy-paste the cells anywhere via the right-click menu.


----------



## Ben (Jul 15, 2021)

SomeGuy said:


> Forgive me if I'm missing something, but are all the BBO brass patches included in Synchron Brass? If so, I can't seem to find the "Legato Soft" patches from BBO in Synchron Brass.


Yes. Some are renamed/restructured to match the articulation names of the other instruments.


----------



## Ben (Jul 15, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Ben ,
> 
> Any hope that VSL will update VE-Pro 7 to be able to offer bidirectional communication with Studio One Pro 5, to automatically reflect the Sound-Variations on a Slave Machine to Studio One, just like when using it Sychron Player inside Studio One ?
> 
> ...


It's already on the wish-list.


----------



## SomeGuy (Jul 15, 2021)

Ben said:


> Yes. Some are renamed/restructured to match the articulation names of the other instruments.


Thank you. Do you mind sharing what the BBO “soft legato” patch is now named in Synchron Brass? I’ve tried to find it, but none of the articulations in Synchron sound like the BBO ”soft legato” patches. Perhaps this patch was made by limiting velocity layers and Synchron Brass does not? I must admit I really liked it from BBO, especially in the Horns, so I would love to have an official answer on how to match these patches in Sync Brass.


----------



## Saxer (Jul 15, 2021)

Is it possible to build an own cell structure and copy it to other instruments? Like a custom preset with mod-wheel crossfade from spicc-to-stacc-to-sfz for the first violins of Synch-Strings-Pro and copy this preset to the celli of Synch-Strings-Pro?


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## Nemoy (Jul 15, 2021)

@Ben Hi Ben, am interested in a complete brass library and came upon your release of synchron brass. I don't see anywhere mentioning if there are mutes. Does Synchron brass have muted brass as I use those a lot? Thank you.


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## SomeGuy (Jul 15, 2021)

Nemoy said:


> @Ben Hi Ben, am interested in a complete brass library and came upon your release of synchron brass. I don't see anywhere mentioning if there are mutes. Does Synchron brass have muted brass as I use those a lot? Thank you.


No, Synchron brass does not contain any muted brass samples, but you can get close with EQ (search the forum for a thread about replicating muted brass with EQ)


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## Giovanni dall Camera (Jul 15, 2021)

Nemoy said:


> @Ben Hi Ben, am interested in a complete brass library and came upon your release of synchron brass. I don't see anywhere mentioning if there are mutes. Does Synchron brass have muted brass as I use those a lot? Thank you.


He earlier said he cannot comment on further volumes, so, I'll take the freedom to answer this: There are no mutes included in Synchron Brass 1, but knowing VSL and given that this is gonna be pretty successful (especially compared to the Synchron Strings 1), I would consider it a safe bet that we won't have to wait very long for a dedicated Synchron Brass II or later, that will be dedicated to mutes. 

I prefer them to do a full volume on the mute vs just offering some sustains and staccatos as it is done in some other libraries.


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## muziksculp (Jul 15, 2021)

Ben said:


> It's already on the wish-list.


Thanks. 

This would be an awesome improvement.


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## Ben (Jul 15, 2021)

SomeGuy said:


> Thank you. Do you mind sharing what the BBO “soft legato” patch is now named in Synchron Brass? I’ve tried to find it, but none of the articulations in Synchron sound like the BBO ”soft legato” patches. Perhaps this patch was made by limiting velocity layers and Synchron Brass does not? I must admit I really liked it from BBO, especially in the Horns, so I would love to have an official answer on how to match these patches in Sync Brass.


Sorry, I don't know at the moment, but I see if I can get this information.


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## ProfoundSilence (Jul 15, 2021)

It's a shame you can't seem to bind the articulation volumes to a CC in the synchron player


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## SomeGuy (Jul 15, 2021)

Saxer said:


> Is it possible to build an own cell structure and copy it to other instruments? Like a custom preset with mod-wheel crossfade from spicc-to-stacc-to-sfz for the first violins of Synch-Strings-Pro and copy this preset to the celli of Synch-Strings-Pro?


Curious about this myself!


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## JTB (Jul 15, 2021)

SomeGuy said:


> Curious about this myself!


Vi Pro has an unsupported 'Patch Replace' function in Vi Pro standalone that enables the user to replace all the patches in multiple matrices. The Synchron player has this but a more primitive text edit version. It baffles me why the devs haven't integrated this into software.


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## Ben (Jul 15, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> It's a shame you can't seem to bind the articulation volumes to a CC in the synchron player


Expression?!?


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## Ben (Jul 15, 2021)

SomeGuy said:


> Curious about this myself!


Well, you could do something like this via a text editor:




__





Custom Preset Creation | VSL - Software Manuals







www.vsl.info





I don't recommend doing a complete preset by hand, but if you really want you can do it.



JTB said:


> Vi Pro has an unsupported 'Patch Replace' function in Vi Pro standalone that enables the user to replace all the patches in multiple matrices. The Synchron player has this but a more primitive text edit version. It baffles me why the devs haven't integrated this into software.


In contrary: It's far more advanced. You are now able to set all parameters and it's far easier to edit in a decent editor like Notepad++.


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## Nemoy (Jul 16, 2021)

Giovanni dall Camera said:


> He earlier said he cannot comment on further volumes, so, I'll take the freedom to answer this: There are no mutes included in Synchron Brass 1, but knowing VSL and given that this is gonna be pretty successful (especially compared to the Synchron Strings 1), I would consider it a safe bet that we won't have to wait very long for a dedicated Synchron Brass II or later, that will be dedicated to mutes.
> 
> I prefer them to do a full volume on the mute vs just offering some sustains and staccatos as it is done in some other libraries.


Thank you. I'm fairly new to the vsl line of synchron products. And could you or @Ben briefly explain what the difference is between Synchron Strings I and Synchron Strings Pro?


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## Ben (Jul 16, 2021)

Nemoy said:


> Thank you. I'm fairly new to the vsl line of synchron products. And could you or @Ben briefly explain what the difference is between Synchron Strings I and Synchron Strings Pro?


Go for Strings Pro for more articulations, and higher playability. It was released quite some time after Strings I and is a more complete package.
Strings I features less articulations but many velocity layers for the sustains. Still, imo thanks to the better playability Strings Pro is the library to go if you don't own both yet.


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## Bighill (Jul 16, 2021)

Ben said:


> Go for Strings Pro for more articulations, and higher playability. It was released quite some time after Strings I and is a more complete package.
> Strings I features less articulations but many velocity layers for the sustains. Still, imo thanks to the better playability Strings Pro is the library to go if you don't own both yet.


Strings 1 resided on my system for 2 years and hardly got any use. Strings pro I almost use all the time


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## Nemoy (Jul 16, 2021)

Ben said:


> Go for Strings Pro for more articulations, and higher playability. It was released quite some time after Strings I and is a more complete package.
> Strings I features less articulations but many velocity layers for the sustains. Still, imo thanks to the better playability Strings Pro is the library to go if you don't own both yet.


Hi Ben. Thanks for answering my question. So Synchron Strings Pro has all the content from Synchron Strings I but more articulations and features? Just want to make sure I'm understanding this right and would not be missing any previous content if I just went with SS Pro. I'd like and would use a lot of different string articulations for various playing styles in orchestral music. The catalog is a bit confusing so hope its ok I ask more questions here.


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## Nemoy (Jul 16, 2021)

Bighill said:


> Strings 1 resided on my system for 2 years and hardly got any use. Strings pro I almost use all the time


so Synchron Strings I is like the core version and Synchron Strings Pro contains everything as well as brand new articulations?


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## wlinart (Jul 16, 2021)

Nemoy said:


> Hi Ben. Thanks for answering my question. So Synchron Strings Pro has all the content from Synchron Strings I but more articulations and features? Just want to make sure I'm understanding this right and would not be missing any previous content if I just went with SS Pro. I'd like and would use a lot of different string articulations for various playing styles in orchestral music. The catalog is a bit confusing so hope its ok I ask more questions here.


There's a comparison between the articulations included in both products on the product page of synchron strings pro


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## Ben (Jul 16, 2021)

Nemoy said:


> so Synchron Strings I is like the core version and Synchron Strings Pro contains everything as well as brand new articulations?


It's a little more difficult in this case. Here a link to the comparison table: https://www.vsl.info/instruments/synchron/strings-pro#comparison-sy-i-pro

There are a few articulations in SY String I that are not included in PRO, but Pro has a much broader range of articulations.


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## ProfoundSilence (Jul 16, 2021)

Ben said:


> Expression?!?


nope.

Expression is for the whole instrument, and is not independent for each articulation. Expression is for controlling expression throughout the phrase.


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## FabioA (Jul 16, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> nope.
> 
> Expression is for the whole instrument, and is not independent for each articulation. Expression is for controlling expression throughout the phrase.


I do understand what you mean and I respect your ideal workflow, but I have at least a couple of reasons why I would rather not do that.
First of all there are so many more important parameters I need to control through CCs, which are not unlimited. Imagine to do that per articulation, would take far too many MIDI channels. Secondly I really see very few or no applications where, after all, CC11 or other solutions couldn't do the job.
You still have the chance to easily duplicate the articulation and have different gain settings for it.
The level of control and freedom we already have with the Synchron Player is huge compared to pretty much all the other samplers.
If there's a feature that imho would make a big difference, would be to have the Synchron mixer settings assignable per articulation. Imagine, within the same patch, to select the staccatos and tweak all mics, sends and effects, without affecting the mixer settings for the rest of articulations; and so on.
Now that would be something..!


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## Toecutter (Jul 16, 2021)

FabioA said:


> If there's a feature that imho would make a big difference, would be to have the Synchron mixer settings assignable per articulation. Imagine, within the same patch, to select the staccatos and tweak all mics, sends and effects, without affecting the mixer settings for the rest of articulations; and so on.
> Now that would be something..!


Excellent idea! I like to think your opinion has some weight and I hope they listen... because yep that would be something


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## Rich4747 (Jul 16, 2021)

FabioA said:


> I do understand what you mean and I respect your ideal workflow, but I have at least a couple of reasons why I would rather not do that.
> First of all there are so many more important parameters I need to control through CCs, which are not unlimited. Imagine to do that per articulation, would take far too many MIDI channels. Secondly I really see very few or no applications where, after all, CC11 or other solutions couldn't do the job.
> You still have the chance to easily duplicate the articulation and have different gain settings for it.
> The level of control and freedom we already have with the Synchron Player is huge compared to pretty much all the other samplers.
> ...


I think you can get very close to that, start from a empty patch create a dimension with 2 different articulations then create 2 new channels and assign articulation 1 to channel 1 and articulation 2 to channel 2. and since the channel volume can be animated and assigned different mixer settings and room placement reverb and different mics etc. In this way you can have automated volume control per articulation as well as choose what mic's are used and all other mixer options a separate channel gives per articulation inside a dimension. Also I solved all my attribute expression map concerns with one generic expression map for all my vsl. see video called 'goodbye keyswitches hello freedom" hopefully this will help someone.

I did a video on this a while back "VSL Synchron player advanced concepts" but since then they have changed the edit/mixer output button to output config but I think that change just adds more functions and options. In my opinion nothing even comes close to the flexibility of the Synchron player now, and I think they are uniquely well setup for the future.


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## ProfoundSilence (Jul 16, 2021)

FabioA said:


> I do understand what you mean and I respect your ideal workflow, but I have at least a couple of reasons why I would rather not do that.
> First of all there are so many more important parameters I need to control through CCs, which are not unlimited. Imagine to do that per articulation, would take far too many MIDI channels. Secondly I really see very few or no applications where, after all, CC11 or other solutions couldn't do the job.
> You still have the chance to easily duplicate the articulation and have different gain settings for it.
> The level of control and freedom we already have with the Synchron Player is huge compared to pretty much all the other samplers.
> ...



1.) You would just use a single CC for adjusting the selected articulation (i.e. the control window) 

2.) I'm not asking for a default CC, not everything has to be bound but it's nice when they can be bound. Its a fader than isn't CC learnable when most seem to be.

More importantly, is somebody is going through the hassle of manually rebalancing the articulations, using the mouse for a large amount of articulations is both less accurate and more tedious than just moving a fader and using your ears

Although I do agree that simply having microphone settings per articulation would also solve this issue


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## kmm08 (Jul 16, 2021)

Still not sure why they decided to make (2) legato & long articulation patches, one for "regular" longs, and one for "con fortissimo". By replacing the forte dynamic layer with an ff one, you sometimes get a bit of an unnatural jump between the two timbres. Not as bad as some other libraries, but still noticeable at times. Maybe it had to do with phase issues between crossfades?


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## ptram (Jul 16, 2021)

ptram said:


> you will have to also edit the expression maps/articulation sets.


While I'm reluctant to edit the expression maps supplied by VSL with Dorico (they are there, why using something else?), I think a customized version of the maps are something I will have to do in any case.

While leaving the maps mostly unchanged, I will have to do a couple things on them:

- extend the range of some sounds, therefore changing some keyswitches;
- add AddOn techniques like "Vol 100 Exp 110", or "Vni I Startup Values" to quickly insert the initial values of the Volume and Expression parameters for each instrument (since Dorico seems to reset them to a default value).

Paolo


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## JTB (Jul 16, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> 1.) You would just use a single CC for adjusting the selected articulation (i.e. the control window)
> 
> 2.) I'm not asking for a default CC, not everything has to be bound but it's nice when they can be bound. Its a fader than isn't CC learnable when most seem to be.
> 
> ...


With Expression Maps you could do this. Not sure about other DAWs arts management.
Staccatos _ Output _ Controller _ CC#7 (Main Volume) _ 45

Then when you go to a sustain,
Sustain _ Output _ Controller _ CC#7 (Main Volume) _ 100

Or you could use CC#11.



> Ben said:
> In contrary: It's far more advanced. You are now able to set all parameters and it's far easier to edit in a decent editor like Notepad++.


If Note Pad++ is so advanced at editing parameters, why give us a UI at all?.


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## Erisno (Jul 17, 2021)

You can control the volume and panning of individual articulations inside the Synchron player. Generally, I would advise against changing the volume, as in my opinion, VSL has already done the job to make the articulations volume differences realistic.


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## Nemoy (Jul 17, 2021)

Ben said:


> It's a little more difficult in this case. Here a link to the comparison table: https://www.vsl.info/instruments/synchron/strings-pro#comparison-sy-i-pro
> 
> There are a few articulations in SY String I that are not included in PRO, but Pro has a much broader range of articulations.


Thanks. And lastly, are the content for strings in the BBO packs same as in Synchron Strings Pro?


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## Ben (Jul 17, 2021)

Nemoy said:


> Thanks. And lastly, are the content for strings in the BBO packs same as in Synchron Strings Pro?


BBO T-X are a subset of the Strings Pro (less articulations), and for this reason you will get an upgrade discount if you own these and upgrade to Pro.
BBO L+M are completely different recordings of the string sections performing at the same time.


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## ProfoundSilence (Jul 17, 2021)

Expression maps aren't ideal because if you want to stack more than one articulation, you're still stuck with controller data of one or the other. 

It's just an oversight, where the functionality exists almost everywhere else, so I made a comment stating it would be useful. 

No reason to bend over backwards for work around, the obvious work around is just using the mouse


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## holywilly (Jul 17, 2021)

That’s why the first thing I do is to create my custom presets when getting new VSL instruments, Synchron brass is no exception.

Now my all VSL libraries have exactly same keyswitch, dimension control layout. It requires some times, the reward is the ease of use and time efficient workflow. 

And just apply expression from previous libraries and I’m good to go.


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## Paul Jelfs (Jul 17, 2021)

While I think VSL have knocked it out of the park with a lot of their recent releases, and the Brass sounds spectacular, the only thing that I wish they would include is some sort of "Smart Sketch Patch" for each instrument - Kind of like their own version of Performance Legato. 

A patch that will get you there for 70% of your needs, and perfect for sketching and initially part writing, without Key switches.

I do fully understand that that is not the purpose or the direction of Synchron libraries- However, the Synchron player is SOO powerful, I bet if they wanted to they could add "PERFORMANCE" patches, that cover Legato, Runs, Shorts and Longs for MOST general Sketching/ Writing. 

It would be so awesome to have all those articulations and control that VSL gives you, with also a Performance patch that gets you inspired and writing within moments of loading it up. 

Unless I am mistaken and some of the new Legato patches do allow really flexible lines, without KS ? 

I also think now their Synchron libraries are really expanding, it would be excellent to have the choice to buy individual instruments - though I guess that is what Big Bang is for - though no individual horns etc :(


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## ptram (Jul 17, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> I wish they would include is some sort of "Smart Sketch Patch" for each instrument


Usually, there is an "All" or "Tutti" preset, for each of their libraries, blending all the instruments of the set. Maybe this is what you are looking for?

Paolo


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## muziksculp (Jul 17, 2021)




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## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 17, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> While I think VSL have knocked it out of the park with a lot of their recent releases, and the Brass sounds spectacular, the only thing that I wish they would include is some sort of "Smart Sketch Patch" for each instrument - Kind of like their own version of Performance Legato.
> 
> A patch that will get you there for 70% of your needs, and perfect for sketching and initially part writing, without Key switches.
> 
> ...


Exactly. They already went into a direction offering different attacks and duration-dependent détachés, but there could be even more "performance". I would appreciate this.

I wrote a very long email to VSL some time ago explaining this exact thing, and giving examples I made with the VI player. I think they want to give the user ultimate flexibility with the single patches approach. They don't want to force the user with a "performance" legato, because the script doesn't always know your intention. But it could to some degree, Spitfire shows it.

You can already create a "performance" legato with a clever combination of patches switching by speed and velocity; the old VI Player (which I use) offers even more possibilities.


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## Paul Jelfs (Jul 17, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Exactly. They already went into a direction offering different attacks and duration-dependent détachés, but there could be even more "performance". I would appreciate this.
> 
> I wrote a very long email to VSL some time ago explaining this exact thing, and giving examples I made with the VI player. I think they want to give the user ultimate flexibility with the single patches approach. They don't want to force the user with a "performance" legato, because the script doesn't always know your intention. But it could to some degree, Spitfire shows it.
> 
> You can already create a "performance" legato with a clever combination of patches switching by speed and velocity; the old VI Player (which I use) offers even more possibilities.


Yeh, they seem to be getting a little bit closer with the Legato auto speed features, but it is such a shame they could not take the idea even further an create a clever performance patch for each individual instrument - Of any engine the Synchron an VI are probably the best placed to do that sort of thing. 

Everybody is different though, I guess that is why we have so many choices when it comes to Sample libraries.


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## Toecutter (Jul 17, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> You can already create a "performance" legato with a clever combination of patches switching by speed and velocity; the old VI Player (which I use) offers even more possibilities.


I never used the old VI player but watched a few videos on it, what sort of possibilities are you talking about?


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 17, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> I never used the old VI player but watched a few videos on it, what sort of possibilities are you talking about?


It has controllers the Synchron Player doesn't have, e.g. interval map. All my own "performance" legatos are based on this controller. It can decide between the first note of a legato phrase, and interval notes (up and down). So I can have a staccato attack only on the first note. In addition to that you can even have very complex humanization / tuning settings where the up intervals have different settings than the down intervals. So actually the VI Pro player was and still is very advanced.

Even though the Synchron Player doesn't have this controller, the functionality / concept behind this is already integrated in some of the newer libraries, i.e. with the different attacks. I can remember with Synchron Strings I back then the marcato overlay was triggered on every note; whereas in the newer libraries it is triggered only on the first note of a phrase.


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## Michael Antrum (Jul 18, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> While I think VSL have knocked it out of the park with a lot of their recent releases, and the Brass sounds spectacular, the only thing that I wish they would include is some sort of "Smart Sketch Patch" for each instrument - Kind of like their own version of Performance Legato.
> 
> A patch that will get you there for 70% of your needs, and perfect for sketching and initially part writing, without Key switches.
> 
> ...


When I need that sort of thing, I use VSL smart orchestra., or is that too blunt an instrument for your preference……


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## Ben (Jul 18, 2021)

JTB said:


> Can anyone tell me please how many dynamic layers there are with the crescendos and diminuendos?.
> I recently had a play with Synchron Strings Pro and was reminded about the lack of dynamic layers. Especially with these two articulations.


Up to 4, if I'm not mistaken. Depends on instrument and what dynamic articulation.


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## JTB (Jul 18, 2021)

Yes, thanks. I was just watching the walkthrough and some instruments have Cres Strong through to Very Soft. I assume these only have one dynamic layer each?.


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## Ben (Jul 18, 2021)

JTB said:


> Yes, thanks. I was just watching the walkthrough and some instruments have Cres Strong through to Very Soft. I assume these only have one dynamic layer each?.


The Strong Cresc/Decres have one vel. layer, correct.


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## JTB (Jul 18, 2021)

Ben said:


> The Strong Cresc/Decres have one vel. layer, correct.


Great, thankyou. Can you please provide me with a link to a page where I can view the library's dynamic layer count for each articulation?.


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## UDun (Jul 19, 2021)

Great release, the sound is amazing ! I was really waiting for it. Combined with Synchron Strings Pro/Elite Strings, Synchronized Woodwinds and Synchron Percussions, it works very well. Very happy that I moved to my entire template to VSL. I love Synchron Player.

@Ben, just a quick question, I love the rounder/warmer sound of Solo French Horn 2, but I feel the attack has, I don't know something disturbing, like you hear the vibrating sound/lips a lot, a kind of blubbling sound (especially for notes above middle C). Is this is normal because of the horn ? Or something to be fixed you think ? Below an example, 0-10s (French Horn 2 with vibrating attack), 10-20s (French Horn with 'clean' attack)

Thanks !


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## Ben (Jul 19, 2021)

JTB said:


> Great, thankyou. Can you please provide me with a link to a page where I can view the library's dynamic layer count for each articulation?.


Sorry, there is none at the moment. But I might be able to answer your questions.


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## Ben (Jul 19, 2021)

UDun said:


> @Ben, just a quick question, I love the rounder/warmer sound of Solo French Horn 2, but I feel the attack has, I don't know something disturbing, like you hear the vibrating sound/lips a lot, a kind of blubbling sound (especially for notes above middle C). Is this is normal because of the horn ?


Yes, this is quite normal when playing horn. It's something a horn player tries to minimize, but depending on instrument and technique it will not completely go away (I have played the horn for a while, and it's a really difficult instrument...).


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## JTB (Jul 19, 2021)

Ben said:


> Sorry, there is none at the moment. But I might be able to answer your questions.


Yeah, no sale!!!


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## Ben (Jul 19, 2021)

JTB said:


> Yeah, no sale!!!


You know we have a 14 days return policy and you could just check it out yourself without any risks?


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## chemie262 (Jul 19, 2021)

Ben said:


> You know we have a 14 days return policy and you could just check it out yourself without any risks?


Hi Ben,
is there a database of the negative track delays for the VSL libraries?


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## JTB (Jul 20, 2021)

Ben said:


> You know we have a 14 days return policy and you could just check it out yourself without any risks?


So download the library, and then go through every patch listening for the transition between the dynamic layers while keeping count. No thanks. VI Pro includes this in the GUI. Synchron player does not.
Little bit disappointed with SSP at this point regarding dynamic layers. Don't want to go down that road again.

P.S. Because VSL refuse to include a simple patch replace function in the Synchron player, it takes 2 weeks to set it up properly anyway. The only way the consumer can determine whether it will fit their needs, is by using the library, not just flicking through patches.


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## Evans (Jul 20, 2021)

JTB said:


> So download the library, and then go through every patch listening for the transition between the dynamic layers while keeping count. No thanks.


I agree, this would be great to have. "Check it out yourself" feels a bit like if a car manufacturer said "test it out yourself" when people ask about fuel economy.

Sure, (in theory) I could do that, but I'm busy and want them to to be transparent about something they should already know. The alternative would be a significant number of exposed audio examples covering every artic.

The raw count doesn't matter as much as how that count is implemented, but this response isn't my favorite as someone who owns several thousands of dollars of VSL libraries and software.


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## jaketanner (Jul 20, 2021)

So are we still in the dark about how many dynamics there are? Should be the same as the BBO, but can’t find that info either.


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## Ben (Jul 20, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> So are we still in the dark about how many dynamics there are? Should be the same as the BBO, but can’t find that info either.





Ben said:


> We'll add the detailed information to the manual, soon:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jaketanner (Jul 20, 2021)

Awesome info, I missed that post. Thanks for sharing.


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## AEF (Jul 21, 2021)

Any new user demos of this library, or opinions in general?


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## ProfoundSilence (Jul 21, 2021)

AEF said:


> Any new user demos of this library, or opinions in general?


More than I'd like seems to be 1 dynamic layer

I feel like it also needs processing More than I originally thought.

I still like the trumpets in general


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## muziksculp (Jul 22, 2021)




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## jonathanwright (Jul 22, 2021)

I still love it. It’s become my workhorse brass library.


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## AEF (Jul 22, 2021)

Is there an easy way to do the transposition trick in Synchron player? It seems like i can only transpose each articulation individually, which needless to say is unbelievably time consuming.


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## Erisno (Jul 22, 2021)

AEF said:


> Is there an easy way to do the transposition trick in Synchron player? It seems like i can only transpose each articulation individually, which needless to say is unbelievably time consuming.


You can click on the main articulations in the first dimension tree (named Articulation) and go to the Edit tab and transpose it. This will also transpose all the articulations on the right side (named Type, Vibrato...etc) and save you from a lot of clicks.


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## muziksculp (Jul 23, 2021)

@AEF ,

I haven't purchased Synchron Brass (yet), but I'm curious to know why you need to use the transposition trick ?


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## jaketanner (Jul 23, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I haven't purchased Synchron Brass (yet)


 What is your delay? Still not sold or waiting for something else?


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## muziksculp (Jul 23, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> What is your delay? Still not sold or waiting for something else?


Just not in a rush, so I'm taking my time to decide, I have until August 2nd when the Intro Price expires.

For Brass, I have SA Symph. Brass, BBCSO Pro Brass, CSB, OT Berlin Brass, and some of the expansions, I also purchased some of the brass from OT T.H. Brass ala-carte. I also have the older VSL Dim-Brass in VI-Pro format, but not using it much. So, I already have a good selection of libraries for Brass, but I still think VSL Synchron Brass is a very special library, and it sounds fantastic in the demos, and walkthrough videos.

Did you already buy Synchron Brass ? or still thinking about it ?


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## jaketanner (Jul 23, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Just not in a rush, so I'm taking my time to decide, I have until August 2nd when the Intro Price expires.
> 
> For Brass, I have SA Symph. Brass, BBCSO Pro Brass, OT Berlin Brass, and some of the expansions, I also purchased some of the brass from OT T.H. Brass ala-carte. I also have the older VSL Dim-Brass in VI-Pro format, but not using it much. So, I already have a good selection of libraries for Brass, but I still think VSL Synchron Brass is a very special, and it sounds fantastic in the demos, and walkthrough videos.
> 
> Did you already buy Synchron Brass ? or still thinking about it ?


Berlin Brass is closest to Synchron Brass from what others have been telling me (that have both)...Synchron is more flexible overall...

I am about to get it any hour now...LOL. My hesitation is that very soon they will have their yearly EDU "back to school" type sale, where EDU is 40$ off..if i remember correctly. Now it's only 25% off for EDU...so I am torn. I got a great price from Audiodeluxe.com...expires at the end of the month...otherwise I'd have gotten it already...LOL.


----------



## AEF (Jul 23, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> @AEF ,
> 
> I haven't purchased Synchron Brass (yet), but I'm curious to know why you need to use the transposition trick ?


id like the create an a4 horns and a3 trumpets with individual players.


----------



## SomeGuy (Jul 23, 2021)

Ben said:


> Sorry, I don't know at the moment, but I see if I can get this information.


We’re you able to find out by chance? Thanks


----------



## ptram (Jul 23, 2021)

AEF said:


> id like the create an a4 horns and a3 trumpets with individual players.


My suggestion is to use Horns a6 and Trumpets a4 for unison instead. The ensemble effect is more realistic, and the difference in numbers is hard to discern.

Paolo


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 23, 2021)

Hi,

Question for those who already purchased Synchron Brass. 

On a scale from 1 to 10, please rate this library based on your experience with it.

10 = Best sounding Brass Library I have ever used.
1 = I Regret buying it
5 = Just another Average Sounding Brass library I added, I could have done without it.

Thanks.


----------



## AEF (Jul 23, 2021)

i had bought BBO. hated the trumpets. loved and kept the horns, and felt the low brass was good but not anything special. so im hesitant, but the soloists sound another level to me so i may just grab it.


----------



## JTB (Jul 25, 2021)

I can't get my head around why instead of adding a wager tuba, contrabass tuba, bass trumpet, piccolo trumpet, cornet, contrabass trombone, Viennese horn, triple horn or a wagner tuba ensemble, they added a 'giant tutti', 9 trombones, 12 french horns and a low brass ensemble.
This is very odd! for VSL. Was the usual crew on holiday or something?.


----------



## Ben (Jul 25, 2021)

JTB said:


> I can't get my head around why instead of adding a wager tuba, contrabass tuba, bass trumpet, piccolo trumpet, cornet, contrabass trombone, Viennese horn, triple horn or a wagner tuba ensemble, they added a 'giant tutti', 9 trombones, 12 french horns and a low brass ensemble.
> This is very odd! for VSL. Was the usual crew on holiday or something?.


Because the mentioned 9 trombones, 12 french horns and low brass section were all already available since the release of their BBO counterparts. Of course instead we could add any of the dozends of brass instruments not covered yet by this library, but I don't know if you would like another 1-3 years for the release.
My guess: We will see more brass instruments covered at some point in future.


----------



## JTB (Jul 25, 2021)

VI Brass 1,2 + 3 is in a different league, no filler. This just seems to be half and half. 
Anyone can tell it is bulked out with filler - why else would the Tutti and Avengers ensembles be listed down the bottom. Again, no sale.


----------



## Ben (Jul 25, 2021)

JTB said:


> VI Brass 1,2 + 3 is in a different league, no filler. This just seems to be half and half.
> Anyone can tell it is bulked out with filler - why else would the Tutti and Avengers ensembles be listed down the bottom. Again, no sale.


That's a bold, but fortunately wrong statement. I recommend to start by watching the walkthrough videos to get an idea of the content you will get.
It's always puzzling to me that people complain even if there is nothing to complain. And comparing content of 1 library to those of 3 is also a little bit misleading.


----------



## JTB (Jul 26, 2021)

Two words... filler + filler


----------



## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 26, 2021)

JTB said:


> I can't get my head around why instead of adding a wager tuba, contrabass tuba, bass trumpet, piccolo trumpet, cornet, contrabass trombone, Viennese horn, triple horn or a wagner tuba ensemble, they added a 'giant tutti', 9 trombones, 12 french horns and a low brass ensemble.
> This is very odd! for VSL. Was the usual crew on holiday or something?.


I don't want to judge here and put Synchron Brass in a bad light, but in some way I can understand. For my part, I miss smaller, more classical sections like VSL used to have; also some more solo instruments. And of course muted brass. I'm wondering why the library isn't called "Synchron Brass I" with a second volume dedicated for muted brass. In one of the session pictures you can see "Synchron Brass II". Maybe it's the same mystery as with "Synchron String Pro" and "Synchron Strings II". 

I mean, what's the point in BBO then? For me BBO stands for epic, bigger sections. Now these bigger sections are integrated in Synchron Brass. Hm... don't know, I expected a stand-alone library instead of a "patchwork" library. I mean, nearly all libraries (Synchron Strings, FX Strings, Brass) are both available as BBO and Synchron. I don't get it. But again: No bad talking, just an observation from a neutral point of view.


----------



## SlHarder (Jul 26, 2021)

If you are on the fence about SynBrass just buy it during intro price and use 14 day withdrawal to return it if you don't like it. No reason to fret like you have to when buying other publishers' non-returnable libraries. I've used 14 day withdrawal and it is absolutely hassle free.


----------



## Ben (Jul 26, 2021)

@Pixelpoet1985 Synchron Stage is a scoring stage and therefore not a classical venue. The Synchron libraries can definitly be used in a classical context, but the main focus is on scoring and cinematic sounds (not to confuse with epic music, which it can handle as well with some post-processing).
If you want a library focused on classical sounds I recommend to take advantage of the current VI sale - it's perfectly fine to use the VI libraries.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Jul 26, 2021)

Ben said:


> That's a bold, but fortunately wrong statement. I recommend to start by watching the walkthrough videos to get an idea of the content you will get.
> It's always puzzling to me that people complain even if there is nothing to complain. And comparing content of 1 library to those of 3 is also a little bit misleading.



People just need to learn to move on if a library doesn't look like something they want to purchase. Imagine if I went to an ice cream shop to complain about how I don't want chocolate ice cream. Cool story, nobody care, buy the ice cream you want and stop making noise. 

I get feedback, but if someone just repeatedly posts about how they won't buy it, it's just not a good look for them.


----------



## Frederick (Jul 26, 2021)

I think the release (and content overlap) strategy of most of the Synchron and BBO is absolutely brilliant - not in the least from a customer perspective.

Overlap in this case means discounts, being able to start out small, but still with best in class instruments on which you can expand where and when you need it!

I'm also glad they didn't wait for the mutes and more instruments with the release of the brass.


----------



## ptram (Jul 26, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Imagine if I went to an ice cream shop to complain about how I don't want chocolate ice cream.


My preferred _gelateria_ offers four different types of chocolate. They really _want_ we like chocolate!

Paolo


----------



## Casiquire (Jul 26, 2021)

JTB said:


> Two words... filler + filler


You've made your point already, and this isn't the place to criticize devs.


----------



## jamwerks (Jul 26, 2021)

JTB said:


> I can't get my head around why instead of adding a wager tuba, contrabass tuba, bass trumpet, piccolo trumpet, cornet, contrabass trombone, Viennese horn, triple horn or a wagner tuba ensemble, they added a 'giant tutti', 9 trombones, 12 french horns and a low brass ensemble.
> This is very odd! for VSL. Was the usual crew on holiday or something?.


That's undoubtedly coming. Hopefully we won't have to wait too long. 

They've done so many strings already in Synchron, I'm wondering if Woodwinds are next, or maybe more brass?


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 26, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> I'm wondering if Woodwinds are next, or maybe more brass?


Hopefully *Synchron Woodwinds* are next. They just released Synchron Brass, more brass can wait a little while. But Having no Synchron Woodwinds at this time is a badly needed, and missing link of the Synchron Orchestra.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 26, 2021)

Ben said:


> @Pixelpoet1985 Synchron Stage is a scoring stage and therefore not a classical venue. The Synchron libraries can definitly be used in a classical context, but the main focus is on scoring and cinematic sounds (not to confuse with epic music, which it can handle as well with some post-processing).
> If you want a library focused on classical sounds I recommend to take advantage of the current VI sale - it's perfectly fine to use the VI libraries.


I know about the sale, but I already have the full cube, the dimension series plus some other instruments; still hoping you release some new "silent" material.

I don't want a classical sound per se, it's just curious that I only have problems with VSL's mixes, other "scoring" libraries have a (more) satisfying sound out-of-the-box. But as you said, it's all about personal taste. Fine, I move on. Synchron isn't an option for me. Won't post anything more.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 26, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hopefully *Synchron Woodwinds* are next. They just released Synchron Brass, more brass can wait a little while. But Having no Synchron Woodwinds at this time is a badly needed, and missing link of the Synchron Orchestra.


If they are taking the same approach as Brass, a large portion of Synchron Woodwinds is already available - in BBO.


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## Ben (Jul 26, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> If they are taking the same approach as Brass, a large portion of Synchron Woodwinds is already available - in BBO.


Well, all Brass soloist as well as some ensemble sizes are not present as BBO libraries... That's less then half of the library.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 26, 2021)

I Love how Synchron Stage is so flattering to Brass ! 

I don't have the library yet, but will most likely get it before Aug. 2nd. 

Listen to this video showing the Trombones and Cimbasso in Synchron Stage the brass sound so rich, and detailed :


----------



## Ben (Jul 26, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I know about the sale, but I already have the full cube, the dimension series plus some other instruments; still hoping you release some new "silent" material.
> 
> I don't want a classical sound per se, it's just curious that I only have problems with VSL's mixes, other "scoring" libraries have a (more) satisfying sound out-of-the-box. But as you said, it's all about personal taste. Fine, I move on. Synchron isn't an option for me. Won't post anything more.


A little post processing (EQ, compression, saturation/tape-emulation) + small tweaks of the mixer presets will help a lot when trying to achieve _your _sound.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 26, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> If they are taking the same approach as Brass, a large portion of Synchron Woodwinds is already available - in BBO.


No, not for me. I only have BBO Zodiac, it is surely not a Woodwinds library.

Looking forward to Synchron Woodwinds release


----------



## ptram (Jul 26, 2021)

Since there is a single Tenor Trombone, what would be the best strategy to get a second one? Since Trombone 2 (Tenor) and 3 (Bass) never play the same note, maybe a second instance of the Bass Trombone can be used effectively as a second Tenor Trombone?

Paolo


----------



## FabioA (Jul 26, 2021)

ptram said:


> Since there is a single Tenor Trombone, what would be the best strategy to get a second one? Since Trombone 2 (Tenor) and 3 (Bass) never play the same note, maybe a second instance of the Bass Trombone can be used effectively as a second Tenor Trombone?
> 
> Paolo


Just to give an example. the short opening on my walkthrough for the Trombones (Verdi's Nabucco Overture) is achieved with 3 instances of the Tenor Trombone and the Cimbasso. I just panned a bit differently the close and mid mics for the 2nd and 3rd instance of tenor trombone.


----------



## Petrucci (Jul 26, 2021)

I'm perfectly fine with the release strategy of Synchron line - I started from BBO bundle and went from there - the introductory discounts and personal discounts are very nice altogether! Now I'm waiting for Synchron Woodwinds though I like Synchronized Woodwinds a lot - I just think that Synchron Woodwinds would add some new flavours to the table; and also Synchron Solo Strings would be awesome) and then exotic instruments please!))


----------



## Robo Rivard (Jul 26, 2021)

The Introductory Price is for new buyers, right? If I own the full BBO package, my crossgrade price won't change over time?


----------



## Ben (Jul 26, 2021)

Robo Rivard said:


> The Introductory Price is for new buyers, right? If I own the full BBO package, my crossgrade price won't change over time?


Well, you will miss the sale...


----------



## Robo Rivard (Jul 26, 2021)

Ben said:


> Well, you will miss the sale...


So the upgrade price for BBO owner will be quite higher after the sale?


----------



## Petrucci (Jul 27, 2021)

Robo Rivard said:


> So the upgrade price for BBO owner will be quite higher after the sale?



Yes, it will be higher and you'll have to wait for the next sale to see the price go down again (I believe the Introductory price is the biggest sale compared to the future ones though I might be wrong).


----------



## Ben (Jul 27, 2021)




----------



## muziksculp (Jul 30, 2021)

Hi,

So has the Intro Price been extended ? or is it still ending on August 2nd. ?

The VSL Synch. Brass page still shows August 2nd.

Just want to check on this, I didn't receive any newsletter informing me that it has been extended to later date in August, I think someone mentioned Aug. 15th ?

Any feedback on this would be appreciated, and maybe a refresh of that date on the VSL product page would help avoid confusion.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## fduncan (Jul 30, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> So has the Intro Price been extended ? or is it still ending on August 2nd. ?
> 
> ...


It is indeed weird that VSL's website isn't updated yet. Here is the screenshot of the Newsletter if that can help you:


----------



## fduncan (Jul 30, 2021)

So I decided to purchase the full version this morning, downloaded the 47gb late in the afternoon, and damn, the Steinberg servers have been down for 6 hours now , I can't activate the library. So frustrating


----------



## Ben (Jul 30, 2021)

@fduncan Sorry for the inconvenience :(


----------



## RSK (Jul 30, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I don't want a classical sound per se, it's just curious that I only have problems with VSL's mixes, other "scoring" libraries have a (more) satisfying sound out-of-the-box. But as you said, it's all about personal taste. Fine, I move on. Synchron isn't an option for me. Won't post anything more.


It's easier to make a scoring stage sound like a concert hall than the other way around. I like Spitfire and VSL both, but over the past couple years I have learned which is more appropriate for what I'm trying to do.


----------



## RSK (Jul 30, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> If they are taking the same approach as Brass, a large portion of Synchron Woodwinds is already available - in BBO.


For some folks it's more important to have woodwind soloists than brass soloists.


----------



## fduncan (Jul 30, 2021)

Ben said:


> @fduncan Sorry for the inconvenience :(


Thank you Ben, don’t worry, it’s not VSL’s fault, I can wait, I’ll have a good night now.


----------



## jamwerks (Jul 31, 2021)

@Ben
Is there a way in the Synchron Player to copy and paste the Control settings that I set-up between instances? I set-up the CC's I want for the Dimension Controllers, the CC for Timbre adjust, the CC for the Stretch factor, etc. These will be the same for all my instruments in Synchron Brass. Do I have to do this manually for each instrument, or is there a way to copy and paste (or other)?

Many thanks!


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## Ben (Jul 31, 2021)

Right click the empty space next to the control fader and click copy.


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## jamwerks (Jul 31, 2021)

Ben said:


> Right click the empty space next to the control fader and click copy.


Thanks Ben, so I do that for each individual setting? No way to copy all the control settings together?


----------



## Ben (Jul 31, 2021)

This copies all controls.


----------



## Ben (Jul 31, 2021)

Here a few additional demos and reviews you should check out:


----------



## holywilly (Jul 31, 2021)

Ben said:


> This copies all controls.


I didn’t know that until now, that’s a huge time saving feature, thanks @Ben .


----------



## RSK (Jul 31, 2021)

To me the Synchron Brass has a similar tone to Cinebrass, which is a high compliment. I'm guessing the rooms are similar. 

But the main reason I'll be getting Synchron Brass is for the Synchron Player. I just find that it works the way I want a sample player to work.


----------



## jamwerks (Jul 31, 2021)

Unless I missed something, the Synchron Player manual says it's possible to copy and paste settings in the Performance tab, but doesn't say anything about the Control tab. If it's not there it might be a good idea to add it. I wasted a lot of time not knowing that...


----------



## ptram (Jul 31, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> Unless I missed something, the Synchron Player manual says it's possible to copy and paste settings in the Performance tab, but doesn't say anything about the Control tab.


I've just tried, and I could copy the controls setup from the Control page, but not from the Performance one. Odd.

Paolo


----------



## SlHarder (Jul 31, 2021)

RSK said:


> But the main reason I'll be getting Synchron Brass is for the Synchron Player. I just find that it works the way I want a sample player to work.


I'm a hobbyist. My first serious brass library was Cinebrass. I loved the room and the articulations. I came to understand that some programming techniques were unique for each instrument. I could not assume that the approach I used with one instrument would create the same results with another. I assumed this was the way it was.

A major "Aha" moment occurred as I started working with BBO Hercules, Jupiter and Kopernikus. Within the Synchron player much of what I learned about the trumpets also applied to horns. Articulations were very comparable and consistent in behavior. I liked working in that environment.

I wasn't surprised when I demoed/bought SynStringPro that the Synchron consistency existed within that library, and there was a lot of cohesion with BBO.

So by the time I purchased SynBrass I knew that Synchronsistency would provide a very familiar creative ecosystem made up of all the Synchron family of libraries.

So I'm with you. Bring on Synchron Winds!


----------



## jamwerks (Jul 31, 2021)

ptram said:


> I've just tried, and I could copy the controls setup from the Control page, but not from the Performance one. Odd.
> 
> Paolo


I used the copy and paste for the Controls section, very handy. I read about the same for the Performance tab, but didn't try that.


----------



## RSK (Jul 31, 2021)

SlHarder said:


> I'm a hobbyist. My first serious brass library was Cinebrass. I loved the room and the articulations. I came to understand that some programming techniques were unique for each instrument. I could not assume that the approach I used with one instrument would create the same results with another. I assumed this was the way it was.
> 
> A major "Aha" moment occurred as I started working with BBO Hercules, Jupiter and Kopernikus. Within the Synchron player much of what I learned about the trumpets also applied to horns. Articulations were very comparable and consistent in behavior. I liked working in that environment.
> 
> ...


"Synchronsistency." I like that! LOL

Don't be surprised if VSL start using that word.


----------



## SlHarder (Aug 1, 2021)

RSK said:


> "Synchronsistency." I like that! LOL


Most of my creativity involves a lot of stumbling around. Tossed the word into a couple of paragraphs and then it came to life the third time around. But I doubt it has the heft to become a neologism.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 1, 2021)

For the expression maps that VSL provides, since I prefer only using attributes (instead of direction), what's the best way to covert those since I believe most of them are directional. Wonder if Babylonwaves has created maps for this yet.


----------



## SomeGuy (Aug 2, 2021)

SomeGuy said:


> Thank you. Do you mind sharing what the BBO “soft legato” patch is now named in Synchron Brass? I’ve tried to find it, but none of the articulations in Synchron sound like the BBO ”soft legato” patches. Perhaps this patch was made by limiting velocity layers and Synchron Brass does not? I must admit I really liked it from BBO, especially in the Horns, so I would love to have an official answer on how to match these patches in Sync Brass.


bump


----------



## yellow_lupine (Aug 2, 2021)

SomeGuy said:


> bump


I noticed that BBO Jupiter for example has three legato types: regular, soft and marcato.
The 6 horns in Synchron Brass instead has four legato types: regular, con fortissimo, marcato start and espressivo.
I suppose the soft one from BBO has been integrated in the regular one of Synchron Brass. 
That, combined with the new timbre adjust, should permit you to play the same old soft articulation.


----------



## SomeGuy (Aug 2, 2021)

I agree, and thank you for your suggestions, but instead of trying to get “close enough“ on my own, I’m hoping @Ben will reply with the official way to replicate these BBO patches in Synchron Brass. Perhaps I should try in the commercial release thread?

edit: I did post this question in the official release thread as that seems like the proper place to get an official answer. https://vi-control.net/community/th...ugh-august-2-2021.111685/page-17#post-4881155


----------



## Ben (Aug 2, 2021)

SomeGuy said:


> I agree, and thank you for your suggestions, but instead of trying to get “close enough“ on my own, I’m hoping @Ben will reply with the official way to replicate these BBO patches in Synchron Brass. Perhaps I should try in the commercial release thread?
> 
> edit: I did post this question in the official release thread as that seems like the proper place to get an official answer. https://vi-control.net/community/th...ugh-august-2-2021.111685/page-17#post-4881155


THIS is the official release thread 
The soft legato is now called regular legato.


----------



## ptram (Aug 2, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> For the expression maps that VSL provides, since I prefer only using attributes (instead of direction), what's the best way to covert those


You can save them as custom maps, export them, and edit the particular parameter with a text editor. Then, import them again.

Paolo


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## ptram (Aug 2, 2021)

Ben said:


> The soft legato is now called regular legato.


I guess the BBO 'Regular' is the new 'Con fortissimo'.

Obviously, Big Bang Orchestra has to be a couple degrees louder than normal!

Paolo


----------



## Ben (Aug 3, 2021)

A review of Synchron Brass by @A.Dern 
Many thanks for this awesome video!


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## SlHarder (Aug 3, 2021)

Ben said:


> A review of Synchron Brass by @A.Dern


Anne-Kathrin's unique perspective is as a professional composer who takes much of her work into a recording studio with a live orchestra. But mockups have also been an important part of her career path. So most of her comments focus on the nuance and flexibility and attention to quality that VSL has crafted into Synchron Brass.

If you are unfamiliar with her career





Do yourself a favor, discover Anne-Kathrin Dern if you haven't already. Composition series is really good viewing!


https://youtu.be/-SroEknGtB8 https://youtu.be/_fbXiIhkUpo ####### https://youtu.be/iyHqZi3AYwE Covid! https://youtu.be/sK2EmFppH3Q https://youtu.be/Oh3-2RitMIE https://www.eventbrite.com/e/journey-of-a-modern-film-composer-what-it-takes-to-succeed-tickets-163314278403 Her Youtube...




vi-control.net


----------



## A.Dern (Aug 3, 2021)

Ben said:


> A review of Synchron Brass by @A.Dern
> Many thanks for this awesome video!



Thanks for having me and allowing me to test out this library. A longer even more thorough review will be coming to my own channel soon as well.


----------



## Casiquire (Aug 3, 2021)

SlHarder said:


> Anne-Kathrin's unique perspective is as a professional composer who takes much of her work into a recording studio with a live orchestra. But mockups have also been an important part of her career path. So most of her comments focus on the nuance and flexibility and attention to quality that VSL has crafted into Synchron Brass.
> 
> If you are unfamiliar with her career
> 
> ...


It's also worth noting that she worked for a sample dev in the past as well. I'm sure that results in a deep understanding of the territory



A.Dern said:


> Thanks for having me and allowing me to test out this library. A longer even more thorough review will be coming to my own channel soon as well.


You're held in very high regard here and I've been grateful for many of your insights before! Thanks for all the wisdom you share


----------



## muziksculp (Aug 3, 2021)

A.Dern said:


> A longer even more thorough review will be coming to my own channel soon as well.


Hi Anna,

Looking forward to your upcoming more thorough review of Synchron Brass on your YT channel.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## Ben (Aug 3, 2021)

I hope you will also enjoy this review like I did:


----------



## holywilly (Aug 3, 2021)

Ben said:


> I hope you will also enjoy this review like I did:



Best review ever! Informative and fun to watch.


----------



## Jack Weaver (Aug 3, 2021)

Here's *Synchron Brass* hard at work doing some John Williams you might not be so familiar with. It was originally a TV broadcast from 1986 with the Boston Pops. It was dedicated to the renovation of the Statue of Liberty. The broadcast was live, from on-site at the Statue of Liberty. It's called, 'Liberty Fanfare'.

For those purists out there, I didn't stick to the balance of the original TV broadcast and updated the overall sound a bit.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1s4yxqg83uzsv34/Liberty%20Fanfare.wav?dl=0


----------



## The Darris (Aug 4, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Best review ever! Informative and fun to watch.


Thank you so much @holywilly , I am glad you enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun to make!!


----------



## holywilly (Aug 4, 2021)

The Darris said:


> Thank you so much @holywilly , I am glad you enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun to make!!


Maybe Ben is the commissioner 
I really love how honest of your review, wish to see more reviews of libraries for professionals.


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## The Darris (Aug 4, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Maybe Ben is the commissioner
> I really love how honest of your review, wish to see more reviews of libraries for professionals.


Hahaha, nope. We will see where this story leads though. 

Yeah, I took nearly a 2 year hiatus from reviewing and something I wanted to change about my approach was to be more direct about my criticisms while still keeping focus on the things I love about a product. I can honestly say that this library lives in my template now. I've always been a VSL skeptic for years as I've used their dry libraries in frustration, but the Synchron Player brings a whole new level of control and customization that I've been lacking from other developers. Why it took me this long to realize this is beyond me. I am definitely looking forward to checking out more of VSL's offerings in the future.


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## RSK (Aug 4, 2021)

Ben said:


> I hope you will also enjoy this review like I did:



Did he just leave his chair and his towel out on that rock?


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## The Darris (Aug 4, 2021)

RSK said:


> Did he just leave his chair and his towel out on that rock?


You are asking the right questions.


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## RSK (Aug 4, 2021)

The Darris said:


> You are asking the right questions.


I'm CDO. It's like being OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order (as they should be).


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## RSK (Aug 4, 2021)

The Darris said:


> I've always been a VSL skeptic for years as I've used their dry libraries in frustration, but the Synchron Player brings a whole new level of control and customization that I've been lacking from other developers. Why it took me this long to realize this is beyond me. I am definitely looking forward to checking out more of VSL's offerings in the future.


I didn't start using VSL until the Synchron Player had come out, so when people say that VSL is "dry" or "sterile," that doesn't make any sense to me. The Synchron stuff has a wonderful sense of space, and the humanization sliders produce amazing results.


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## ptram (Aug 5, 2021)

Since Synchron Brass doesn't include a Contrabass Tuba (apart for the one in the Low Brass ensemble, that is not a separated soloist), what would you do? Use the one in the VI series, or fake it using the Synchron Brass Bass Tuba, with the lower limit extended down?

Paolo


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## Casiquire (Aug 5, 2021)

ptram said:


> Since Synchron Brass doesn't include a Contrabass Tuba (apart for the one in the Low Brass ensemble, that is not a separated soloist), what would you do? Use the one in the VI series, or fake it using the Synchron Brass Bass Tuba, with the lower limit extended down?
> 
> Paolo


Whichever sounds best in context!


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## yellow_lupine (Aug 6, 2021)

Hi @Ben,

I noticed in a couple of Synchron Brass reviews that in order to obtain longer staccato articulations (portato-like or similar) for ensemble instruments that come with staccatos only, the trick is using time stretching.
Can you show us how the correct way to achieve that?


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## Ben (Aug 6, 2021)

yellow_lupine said:


> Hi @Ben,
> 
> I noticed in a couple of Synchron Brass reviews that in order to obtain longer staccato articulations (portato-like or similar) for ensemble instruments that come with staccatos only, the trick is using time stretching.
> Can you show us how the correct way to achieve that?


You can do that, or use the Marcato sustain.


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## mr.vad0614 (Aug 7, 2021)

Does Synchron Brass work on 7400RPM Hard Drives at all? As from what I can see on the system requirements page, the minimum requirements are SSD only? Cheers


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## Ben (Aug 8, 2021)

mr.vad0614 said:


> Does Synchron Brass work on 7400RPM Hard Drives at all? As from what I can see on the system requirements page, the minimum requirements are SSD only? Cheers


I would not recommend to use spinning drives with Synchron Libraries. You will have a bad experience even if you use just a few mics.


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## mr.vad0614 (Aug 8, 2021)

Ben said:


> I would not recommend to use spinning drives with Synchron Libraries. You will have a bad experience even if you use just a few mics.


Hi Ben, thank you for replying in response to my question. It looks like I am going to have to invest in a dedicated SSD drive then! Also can the Big Bang Orchestra libraries run on a spinning drive at all? Thank you


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## Ben (Aug 8, 2021)

mr.vad0614 said:


> Hi Ben, thank you for replying in response to my question. It looks like I am going to have to invest in a dedicated SSD drive then! Also can the Big Bang Orchestra libraries run on a spinning drive at all? Thank you


Same goes for BBO, please use a SSD.

I've put all my libraries on SSDs, it's so much better and I would never go back and use hard drives (except for mass data storage).


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## yellow_lupine (Aug 9, 2021)

I'm noticing the 12 horns legatos, particularly on the ff layer, are not fluid (there is something similar to a clash or hiss, I don't know how to describe it).
Is seems like the sound is continuously cut and disconnected.
More over the dynamic crossfade from higher to lower layer makes the sound synthy (notice the last note in the attached sample).
Can you help @Ben?


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## Ben (Aug 9, 2021)

yellow_lupine said:


> I'm noticing the 12 horns legatos, particularly on the ff layer, are not fluid (there is something similar to a clash or hiss, I don't know how to describe it).
> Is seems like the sound is continuously cut and disconnected.


Sorry, I don't notice anything wrong with the provided example.
Maybe you don't like the attack of each note? This sounds pretty much like I remember it from back in the days when I played the horn 
But in this case try to skip the attack with the "Wave start offset" feature:








yellow_lupine said:


> More over the dynamic crossfade from higher to lower layer makes the sound synthy (notice the last note in the attached sample).


Simply don't drop the VelXF so fast.
Important: VelXF changes the timbre of an instrument. In this scenario a brass player usually will keep the timbre almost the same while just lowering the volume. You can re-create this easily by using the Expression slider to adjust the volume and use just a little bit VelXF or Timbre Adjust.


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## The Darris (Aug 9, 2021)

yellow_lupine said:


> I'm noticing the 12 horns legatos, particularly on the ff layer, are not fluid (there is something similar to a clash or hiss, I don't know how to describe it).
> Is seems like the sound is continuously cut and disconnected.
> More over the dynamic crossfade from higher to lower layer makes the sound synthy (notice the last note in the attached sample).
> Can you help @Ben?


To add to @Ben's suggestion. I wouldn't switch between the regular longs to the Con fortissimo mid phrase like that. I would use just the Con Fortissimo patch since it has all of the same layers and simply automate my VelXfade control as usual. Keep in mind, the more brassy timbre comes in at around 115. If you want more control, utilize Timbre Adjust in tandem and you'll discover just how smooth you can get your dynamics to blend with that Con Fortissimo patch.


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## A.Dern (Aug 10, 2021)

mr.vad0614 said:


> Does Synchron Brass work on 7400RPM Hard Drives at all? As from what I can see on the system requirements page, the minimum requirements are SSD only? Cheers


I actually ran the samples from a 7200rpm drive for my demo and had no issues. I'd assume it would become a problem if you wanted to run the whole orchestra from that same drive. If you divide the sample load of the different sections onto multiple hard drives it should be fine. But then again you may as well buy one or two large SSDs instead of 4-6 fast spinning drives. Kinda comes out at the same price these days I guess.


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## VSriHarsha (Aug 11, 2021)

A.Dern said:


> I actually ran the samples from a 7400rpm drive for my demo and had no issues. I'd assume it would become a problem if you wanted to run the whole orchestra from that same drive. If you divide the sample load of the different sections onto multiple hard drives it should be fine. But then again you may as well buy one or two large SSDs instead of 4-6 fast spinning drives. Kinda comes out at the same price these days I guess.


Thanks for doing a video on the Synchron Brass @A.Dern .
Love your honest take on it.


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## Soundbed (Aug 11, 2021)

mr.vad0614 said:


> Does Synchron Brass work on 7400RPM Hard Drives at all? As from what I can see on the system requirements page, the minimum requirements are SSD only? Cheers


ymmv but fwiw ... I wasn’t able to play a recent Synchron piano with my 7200rpm drive without notes dropping out. The Synchron piano player is different than the Synchron player for brass. But I learned to trust VSL requirements / recommendations on using an SSD, after that experience.


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## Drumdude2112 (Aug 12, 2021)

Lovin’ this library , debating upgrading to full version 👍🏻


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## SlHarder (Aug 12, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> debating upgrading to full version


Same here, got StringsPro as Std, but brass is kind of my favorite and I'm thinking it's "tail/hide" time if I'm ever going to go Full.


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## VSriHarsha (Aug 12, 2021)

I watched the video you did on the Synchron Brass @Akarin.


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## Drumdude2112 (Aug 13, 2021)

SlHarder said:


> Same here, got StringsPro as Std, but brass is kind of my favorite and I'm thinking it's "tail/hide" time if I'm ever going to go Full.


Its my understanding that you still get those extra mics in the presets (mixed down) but don’t actually have control of them ?…that how it works ?


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## Ben (Aug 13, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> Its my understanding that you still get those extra mics in the presets (mixed down) but don’t actually have control of them ?…that how it works ?


The RoomMix is a downmix of the room-mixes, correct. It's great if you don't have the Full Library, but personally I almost never use it because you can do so much with the separat mics (simply changing the delay on some mics/or not/ can already make a huge difference).


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## holywilly (Aug 13, 2021)

Surround to stereo downmix wide is my favorite.


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## Dietz (Aug 13, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Surround to stereo downmix wide is my favorite.


That's what all the "Synchronized" Vienna Instruments refer to, too, as well as the "Wide" MIRx settings for Synchron Stage Vienna. For me, it's as close to THE sound of this venue as it gets.


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## SlHarder (Aug 13, 2021)

Ben said:


> but personally I almost never use it because you can do so much with the separat mics (simply changing the delay on some mics/or not/ can already make a huge difference


@Ben
Can you give a "rough guess" sense of how much extra ram usage I will see if moving from Std to Full SynBrass? I'm thinking about what you have seen in your personal "typical" usage, not just "turn them all on". I don't need exact numbers, just a "no big deal" or "kind of took a performance hit".

Intro price is thru end of Aug15? In my time zone MDT Denver or yours?

Thanks


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## Ben (Aug 13, 2021)

SlHarder said:


> @Ben
> Can you give a "rough guess" sense of how much extra ram usage I will see if moving from Std to Full SynBrass? I'm thinking about what you have seen in your personal "typical" usage, not just "turn them all on". I don't need exact numbers, just a "no big deal" or "kind of took a performance hit".


Depends on the mix of course, usually it's around 30-60% more RAM and CPU usage (compared to the baseline, so if Standard uses around 150MB RAM, Full will use around 200-250MB).


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## SlHarder (Aug 13, 2021)

Ben said:


> usually it's around 30-60% more RAM and CPU usage (compared to the baseline, so if Standard uses around 150MB RAM, Full will use around 200-250MB).


Thanks, that falls into the range that I was expecting. But prior painful experiences with a couple of libraries from other publishers have taught me to "know before you go (buy)". Plus I've got your 14 day withdrawal policy to fall back on.


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## dcoscina (Aug 15, 2021)

I'm still having a tough time with some of the ensemble legatos. The slurs don't seem to be that audible compared to the solos (which also have the greater detail of varied legato). 

the tone of the library however is utterly fabulous. The trombones are outstanding. The bass tuba is to die for. I played this little realtime playthru for a tuba player and he was amazed at the sound.


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Aug 15, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> The bass tuba is to die for. I played this little realtime playthru for a tuba player and he was amazed at the sound.


The most underrated part of the library! Tuba in past libraries has been soooo difficult to blend.


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## dcoscina (Aug 15, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> The most underrated part of the library! Tuba in past libraries has been soooo difficult to blend.


I'm still trying to get the legatos to feel more like the previous VI Pro libraries with more audible slur (changing mix settings, humanize, etc) but aside from that, this is a fantastic library

Disclaimer- I received this from VSL to review for an upcoming FSM Online issue.

Oh and try the 3 Trombones Stacc with those sus4 chords from the beginning of Goldsmith's Clever Girl from Total Recall. WOW! they sound pretty damn close!


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## Ben (Aug 15, 2021)

If you didn't got Synchron Brass yet, don't wait any longer: The intro sale ends in a few hours!


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## muziksculp (Aug 15, 2021)

Ben said:


> If you didn't got Synchron Brass yet, don't wait any longer: The intro sale ends in a few hours!


Got it a few weeks ago. 

Now.. Looking forward to the release of *Synchron Woodwinds*. Hopefully it's not too far away.


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## Drumdude2112 (Aug 15, 2021)

I upgraded to Full 👍🏻.
Figured , what the heck. 😁


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## holywilly (Aug 15, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Got it a few weeks ago.
> 
> Now.. Looking forward to the release of *Synchron Woodwinds*. Hopefully it's not too far away.


Time to get the BBO woodwinds pack for crossgrade discount for Synchron Woodwinds :D


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## muziksculp (Aug 15, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Time to get the BBO woodwinds pack for crossgrade discount for Synchron Woodwinds :D


Haha.. I didn't even check the BBO Woodwinds Pack, but really don't think I need it.

I will check them out anyways. 

The only BBO library I have is Zodiac. Which helped me get a bit of a discount on Synchron Brass (Full).


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## muziksculp (Aug 15, 2021)

BBO Orion (3 Flutes, 3 Oboes, 3 Clarinets, 3 Bassoons) Currently showing up at $229.24 , I wonder if they will have a sale on this library soon ? 

Oh.. I just realized there was a sale on this library in April this year, so I'm not sure it will go back on sale before Synchron Woodwinds is released.

I'm guessing BBO Orion's content will be duplicated/included in Synchron Woodwinds, so the price of Orion will be deducted from the price of Synchron Woodwinds.


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## artinro (Aug 15, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I'm still trying to get the legatos to feel more like the previous VI Pro libraries with more audible slur (changing mix settings, humanize, etc) but aside from that, this is a fantastic library


Agreed. I’ve been trying to do the same. If you come across something, would love to hear it.


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## holywilly (Aug 15, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> BBO Orion (3 Flutes, 3 Oboes, 3 Clarinets, 3 Bassoons) Currently showing up at $229.24 , I wonder if they will have a sale on this library soon ?
> 
> Oh.. I just realized there was a sale on this library in April this year, so I'm not sure it will go back on sale before Synchron Woodwinds is released.
> 
> I'm guessing BBO Orion's content will be duplicated/included in Synchron Woodwinds, so the price of Orion will be deducted from the price of Synchron Woodwinds.


And I bet the Synchron Woodwinds will also focus on the solo instruments like Synchron Brass, which I am highly anticipated.


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## Drumdude2112 (Aug 16, 2021)

i bought all the bbo woodwinds at launch so i’m ready for synchron 😆👍🏻


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## Toecutter (Aug 16, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> I upgraded to Full 👍🏻.
> Figured , what the heck. 😁


That's a solid reason to upgrade XD Life's too short, what the heck!


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## dcoscina (Aug 16, 2021)

artinro said:


> Agreed. I’ve been trying to do the same. If you come across something, would love to hear it.


I’m glad I’m not the only one. The only thing I’ve been somewhat successful at is mixing more close mic. It seems like the slur is more prominent then. 
I sort of get why there isn’t as much as than from the previous silent stage recordings. Without the longer note transition slurs one can do much more nimble lines. 
But I personally would prefer more slur in the notes to better distinguish them from the longs. My two cents.

again it’s the only slight niggle in an otherwise utterly amazing library. The sound is really fantastic and the amount of flexibility in the arts and the synchron controls are fabulous. VSL has always been really smart about their players and this is no exception.


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## Drumdude2112 (Aug 16, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> That's a solid reason to upgrade XD Life's too short, what the heck!


INDEED !!!…i’m loving the library and the ugrade (especially through 3rd party dealer) was pretty nominal really (plus i had ‘points’ ) So i knew i’d regret it if i didn’t ...downloading additional mics now👍🏻


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## dcoscina (Aug 16, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> INDEED !!!…i’m loving the library and the ugrade (especially through 3rd party dealer) was pretty nominal really (plus i had ‘points’ ) So i knew i’d regret it if i didn’t ...downloading additional mics now👍🏻


The additional mics are great. The thought behind their libraries is pretty amazing to be honest


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## Drumdude2112 (Aug 16, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> The additional mics are great. The thought behind their libraries is pretty amazing to be honest


They sound great in the down mixes so i figured be even better to have full control…wasnt much more $ in the end..Sure it’ll be more then worth it.


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## Ben (Aug 16, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> They sound great in the down mixes so i figured be even better to have full control…wasnt much more $ in the end..Sure it’ll be more then worth it.


It definitly is! If you need some inspiration on how to use these additional mics, check out the processed and Full library Signature mixes!


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## Drumdude2112 (Aug 16, 2021)

Ben said:


> It definitly is! If you need some inspiration on how to use these additional mics, check out the processed and Full library Signature mixes!


Thanks Ben !!..’Full library signature mixes’ Stoked 😁👍🏻


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## artinro (Aug 16, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> But I personally would prefer more slur in the notes to better distinguish them from the longs. My two cents.
> 
> again it’s the only slight niggle in an otherwise utterly amazing library.


Agreed 100%


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## jamwerks (Aug 16, 2021)

One of the best libraries ever, from anyone!

Hopefully we won't have to wait too long for the additional instruments (flugelhorn, Euphonium, etc.), and the mutes. And I'd love for them to do the mutes extensively, maybe taking some inspiration from OT Glory Days...


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## dcoscina (Aug 16, 2021)

The Dorico preset of this library is also wonderful. Been using it today and it sounds great!


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## dcoscina (Aug 16, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> One of the best libraries ever, from anyone!
> 
> Hopefully we won't have to wait too long for the additional instruments (flugelhorn, Euphonium, etc.), and the mutes. And I'd love for them to do the mutes extensively, maybe taking some inspiration from OT Glory Days...


I'd also love mutes... I'm all about the mutes.


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## dcoscina (Aug 16, 2021)

Just another quick little thing using the big ensemble preset. Wow, no worries about not getting that Alex North Spartacus sound...


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## muziksculp (Aug 16, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> Just another quick little thing using the big ensemble preset. Wow, no worries about not getting that Alex North Spartacus sound...



Sounds Wonderfully Epic. Wow... Love Synchron Brass. Thanks for sharing this. 

Q. What is it about the legato slur that you were not too happy about ? maybe @Ben can provide some helpful feedback to get the legato character/sound you are seeking.


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## dcoscina (Aug 16, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Sounds Wonderfully Epic. Wow... Love Synchron Brass. Thanks for sharing this.
> 
> Q. What is it about the legato slur that you were not too happy about ? maybe @Ben can provide some helpful feedback to get the legato character/sound you are seeking.


The slur just doesn't seem prominent enough in the section legatos. The solos I have no issue with. But even when I compared to say BBCSO Solo Horn, I'm hearing a lot more transition between the notes which I'm accustomed to. 

But, like I said, there's sooooo much about this library that I dig, it's not a huge sticking point. Here is a little more added to this little excerpt with Low Brass for additional portent. And OPUS strings/percussion..

I've been looking for a good theme or starting point for my Trials of Hercules concert work. This theme might work out for that. And the Synchron Brass has a wonderful Dorico template which I've been trying out as well.


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## muziksculp (Aug 16, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> The slur just doesn't seem prominent enough in the section legatos. The solos I have no issue with. But even when I compared to say BBCSO Solo Horn, I'm hearing a lot more transition between the notes which I'm accustomed to.
> 
> But, like I said, there's sooooo much about this library that I dig, it's not a huge sticking point. Here is a little more added to this little excerpt with Low Brass for additional portent. And OPUS strings/percussion..
> 
> I've been looking for a good theme or starting point for my Trials of Hercules concert work. This theme might work out for that. And the Synchron Brass has a wonderful Dorico template which I've been trying out as well.


You might want to also consider when a brass section plays a slurred legato they are not in total synch, so the effect is more subtle, and not as audible as a single player performing it.


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## dcoscina (Aug 16, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> You might want to also consider when a brass section plays a slurred legato they are not in total synch, so the effect is more subtle, and not as audible as a single player performing it.


This is true (speaking from experience). It's also what we've been conditioned to hear or expect from most libraries out there.


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## muziksculp (Aug 16, 2021)

Synchron Stage has been perfect acoustically to bring out the beautiful timbre of brass, both Solo and Ensemble. 

So, I'm curious how Synchron Stage's acoustics will fair with the Solo Woodwinds ? 

Will Synchron Stage's acoustics also be flattering for Solo Woodwinds ? I surely hope it will.


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## SlHarder (Aug 16, 2021)

And the Synchron crowd softly starts cheering "give me a 'w' ... give me an 'o' ... give me a ... ... woodwinds ... WoodWinds ... WOODWINDS!"


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## ChickenAndARoll (Aug 16, 2021)

If Synchron-ized Woodwinds is any indicator of how Synchron Woodwinds is gonna turnout, then it'll be fantastic. Synchron-ized Woodwinds is my go to choice for WWs so I can't wait for true recordings in the Synchron Stage


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## dunamisstudio (Aug 16, 2021)

Picked up it up last night and downloading it now.


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## muziksculp (Aug 16, 2021)

ChickenAndARoll said:


> If Synchron-ized Woodwinds is any indicator of how Synchron Woodwinds is gonna turnout, then it'll be fantastic. Synchron-ized Woodwinds is my go to choice for WWs so I can't wait for true recordings in the Synchron Stage


Hopefully they will be a big step up from the way the Synchon-ized Woodwinds sound.


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## FabioA (Aug 17, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I’m glad I’m not the only one. The only thing I’ve been somewhat successful at is mixing more close mic. It seems like the slur is more prominent then.
> I sort of get why there isn’t as much as than from the previous silent stage recordings. Without the longer note transition slurs one can do much more nimble lines.
> But I personally would prefer more slur in the notes to better distinguish them from the longs. My two cents.
> 
> again it’s the only slight niggle in an otherwise utterly amazing library. The sound is really fantastic and the amount of flexibility in the arts and the synchron controls are fabulous. VSL has always been really smart about their players and this is no exception.


My suggestion is to use a compressor/saturator. I achieve a sound I really like with Soundtoys Decapitator for example. But even playing with compressor and saturator within the Synchron Mixer on specific mics could do the trick, potentially even better.


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## JF_Composer (Nov 15, 2021)

Hey all!
Little question, I've been using VSL samples for years now(especially woodwinds but that's another story).
In term of brass, I'm used to have all separate instruments plus sections(let's say like Orchestral Tool, Chris Hein and Sample Modeling). How can we write for a full brass ensemble like four horns, three trumpets etc.. if they only recorded two solo instrument per section?

Is there a trick? 
I'm about to buy Elite Strings and Synchron Strings Pro and I'm waiting for the woodwinds like crazy(I have a lot of BIG libraries but I keep returning to the old vsl woodwinds). Adding the brass at some point would be very good. The sound is really bright and seem to fit well to fanfares and else!


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## Zanshin (Nov 15, 2021)

JF_Composer said:


> Is there a trick?







__





Transpose trick in Synchron Player, extra vibrato patches in Synchron and SYNCHRON-ized libraries - Synchron Libraries - FORUMS - Vienna Symphonic Library


No description




www.vsl.co.at





Works well.

Edit: Will also say Dimension Brass is pretty awesome too and easy to divisi.


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## Zedcars (Nov 15, 2021)

JF_Composer said:


> Hey all!
> Little question, I've been using VSL samples for years now(especially woodwinds but that's another story).
> In term of brass, I'm used to have all separate instruments plus sections(let's say like Orchestral Tool, Chris Hein and Sample Modeling). How can we write for a full brass ensemble like four horns, three trumpets etc.. if they only recorded two solo instrument per section?
> 
> ...


You can just reuse the same instruments and pan them slightly differently if you want (not a huge difference in a mix tbh). As long as the duplicated instruments are not playing the same notes with the same articulation at the same time then there’s no problem. If there is unison playing then either use the a4 version or use the transposition trick on those particular notes (or use a different articulation).


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## JF_Composer (Nov 15, 2021)

That's interesting, I admit that I'd have prefered all the single instruments(at least the four first/three first etc...), it might be a new way to work. I'm checking the demos from this thread at the moment.
I might buy it at some point!


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## FabioA (Nov 15, 2021)

JF_Composer said:


> That's interesting, I admit that I'd have prefered all the single instruments(at least the four first/three first etc...), it might be a new way to work. I'm checking the demos from this thread at the moment.
> I might buy it at some point!


Hey, just to give you an example, the very first track playing here is made with 3 instances of the single Solo tenor trombone, slightly panned inside the Synchron Player as someone previously suggested, and a Cimbasso. Later on you can hear other examples playing 3 or 4 parts within the same Tenor Trombone patch.




I'll be completely honest, I don't miss a 3rd and 4th soloist. That would have probably came to the cost of giving up to some articulations or velocity layers in order to make the library size and the ram usage acceptable. 2 Trumpets and 2 Horns soloists give me what I need: 2 very different characters for solo moments, to pretty much always find the one I need and I like the most!


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## Erisno (Nov 15, 2021)

JF_Composer said:


> Hey all!
> Little question, I've been using VSL samples for years now(especially woodwinds but that's another story).
> In term of brass, I'm used to have all separate instruments plus sections(let's say like Orchestral Tool, Chris Hein and Sample Modeling). How can we write for a full brass ensemble like four horns, three trumpets etc.. if they only recorded two solo instrument per section?
> 
> ...


Here you can see the trick in action. Look especially at the trumpets. For the unison parts, I used different articulations. (espressivo/regular, Sforzato/sforzatissimo ...or you can try using different vibrato options). I think this is the best way to achieve any sound you want, as you can use different Timbre Adjust values for each trumpet instance.


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## JF_Composer (Nov 15, 2021)

Thanks a lot guys! Lots of quality material to feed my GAS ah ah!
I didn't think that just panning inside of the player would be enough!
Now I know the strings are the priority but I hardly can wait to get the Brass and the Woodwinds(when the library is out)!


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## jaketanner (Nov 15, 2021)

JF_Composer said:


> That's interesting, I admit that I'd have prefered all the single instruments(at least the four first/three first etc...)


There should have been an (a2) patch along with the 2 soloists...that will give you some flexibility for harmony. Not all 4 part sections need to be harmonized, and an (a2) really comes in handy. 

however...most everyone has more than 1 brass library...so I just combine solo patches from other libraries to create my own unique musician group. The differences in tone is closer to how it would be in a real situation anyway. The room isn't that big a deal to blend in. SStB Pro is perfect for this task...fairly dry and very different tone that adds some cool color to the group.


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## jamwerks (Nov 15, 2021)

Doing a real Horns a2 (and Trumpets a2) extension in the future would be cool, I'd buy! I do like having the two soloist, but in my writing the a2 is very frequent, and would love to have that pre-done!


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## jonathanwright (Nov 16, 2021)

I've been happily using the standard version of Synchron Brass since release, I'm tempted to get the full version now.

For those of you that have done it, are the extra mics in the full version worth it?


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## Petrucci (Nov 16, 2021)

jonathanwright said:


> I've been happily using the standard version of Synchron Brass since release, I'm tempted to get the full version now.
> 
> For those of you that have done it, are the extra mics in the full version worth it?



Yes, extra mics give more detail to the "space" around the brass so it is more full in my opinion.


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## Zanshin (Nov 16, 2021)

Even though @Petrucci is my VSL fanboy brother from another mother - I have to disagree.

I have Full for SB but I feel like it's a case of diminishing returns. For me, the only Synchron library that Full is a must have is Elite Strings (I don't have any of the Synchron pianos so not sure about those). That said if you have money and SSD space to burn, or perhaps looking to get into surround, or maybe you are going to use the solo instruments REALLY exposed and you want to wring every last bit of tone out of them...

If I could do it all over again I would have put the money I spent on Full towards Dim Brass (to supplement and add flavor. I am picking up DB soon anyway).


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## jonathanwright (Nov 16, 2021)

Thanks both for your honest options, very helpful.


----------



## khollister (Nov 16, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Even though @Petrucci is my VSL fanboy brother from another mother - I have to disagree.
> 
> I have Full for SB but I feel like it's a case of diminishing returns. For me, the only Synchron library that Full is a must have is Elite Strings (I don't have any of the Synchron pianos so not sure about those). That said if you have money and SSD space to burn, or perhaps looking to get into surround, or maybe you are going to use the solo instruments REALLY exposed and you want to wring every last bit of tone out of them...
> 
> If I could do it all over again I would have put the money I spent on Full towards Dim Brass (to supplement and add flavor. I am picking up DB soon anyway).


I pretty much agree. I have Full brass and Synchron Strings bundle but only went for Standard Synchron Per bundle. I did this both for cost and disk space reasons. I also agree that the ribbon mics in Elite Strings Full are very handy to have and I would likely go for Full on those again for that reason.

I have most of the Synchron pianos and do use some of the Full mic signals to create a drier, fuller sound (thinking of the tube and ribbon mics on the Steinway for instance).

It's not that the full mics don't make a difference, but if you are going to put everything through 3rd party reverbs anyway, some of the more obvious differences are reduced by the enveloping tail from the master reverb.

Basically it is 2X the cost and size, and they don't turn the libraries from "I don't like them, won't buy them" to "Now we're talking". IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada.


----------



## ptram (Nov 16, 2021)

I like the Full libraries more, but the Standard ones are absolutely gorgeous. And, as stated by my fellows up here, they are much gentler on resources.

Paolo


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## Ben (Nov 16, 2021)

In most cases if you have the choice between two standard libraries and one full, I would personally recommend to get the two libraries. But if you have the budget definitely go for the Full Library (imo); most of the times I use the Full Library mixes, and for custom mixes I don't want to miss these mics.


----------



## Petrucci (Nov 16, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Even though @Petrucci is my VSL fanboy brother from another mother - I have to disagree.
> 
> I have Full for SB but I feel like it's a case of diminishing returns. For me, the only Synchron library that Full is a must have is Elite Strings (I don't have any of the Synchron pianos so not sure about those). That said if you have money and SSD space to burn, or perhaps looking to get into surround, or maybe you are going to use the solo instruments REALLY exposed and you want to wring every last bit of tone out of them...
> 
> If I could do it all over again I would have put the money I spent on Full towards Dim Brass (to supplement and add flavor. I am picking up DB soon anyway).



I agree that if one can use reverb masterfully it might be overkill to have extra mics but since I'm not an expert in this field I just use Surround To Stereo presets which give me a nice sense of space in the room and then make a send from each instrument to reverb with a nice tail to make everything smoother and maybe hide some of my programming mistakes lol))


----------



## Project Anvil (Dec 3, 2021)

Apologies if this has already been asked and answered before, but is it possible to get only the solo instruments? From what I can see on the website it doesn't seem to be the case, but with other VSL products it was possible to get only specific instruments.


----------



## Petrucci (Dec 3, 2021)

Project Anvil said:


> Apologies if this has already been asked and answered before, but is it possible to get only the solo instruments? From what I can see on the website it doesn't seem to be the case, but with other VSL products it was possible to get only specific instruments.


No, it comes only as a package - Standard or Full, depending on mic positions included.


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## Ben (Dec 3, 2021)

Project Anvil said:


> Apologies if this has already been asked and answered before, but is it possible to get only the solo instruments? From what I can see on the website it doesn't seem to be the case, but with other VSL products it was possible to get only specific instruments.


Most of the VI libraries and parts of the SYNCHRON-ized lines are available as single instrument purchases.
Instruments in collections that are part of the Synchron Series are not available separately.


----------



## matthieuL (Dec 12, 2021)

Giovanni dall Camera said:


>



Hello,

I recently bought Synchron Brass, and I am very disappointed by the room sound, I find there is almost no tail, the feeling of the room is bad. For example, the trumpets played only with Main mics at 1'23 on the walkthrough above have a nice room/reverb/tail, while playing the same notes on the same preset, I have an almost dry sound ("dry" is exagerated, I should say extremely short tail) :




Was there an additionnal reverb ? I can't believe it, as it would be unfair. 
Something has to be wrong on my system, but I don't find what. Did anybody have this problem too ?
(I'm using Cubase 11 and VE Pro 7 on Windows 10)


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## Ben (Dec 12, 2021)

matthieuL said:


> Hello,
> 
> I recently bought Synchron Brass, and I am very disappointed by the room sound, I find there is almost no tail, the feeling of the room is bad. For example, the trumpets played only with Main mics at 1'23 on the walkthrough above have a nice room/reverb/tail, while playing the same notes on the same preset, I have an almost dry sound ("dry" is exagerated, I should say extremely short tail) :
> 
> ...



Is there a reason why you don't use the library as intended, using one of the mixer presets or creating a proper mix yourself?


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## Evans (Dec 12, 2021)

I think what matthieuL is saying is that they expect that using the same settings as in the walkthrough video should give them the same output as the walkthrough, but it is possibly not.

If the user's settings match the video, I think it's entirely reasonable to assume that "this is the sound you get" without external plugins, particularly since this part of the video is devoted toward showing off the mics.


----------



## matthieuL (Dec 12, 2021)

Ben said:


> Is there a reason why you don't use the library as intended, using one of the mixer presets or creating a proper mix yourself?


I'm using Mixer presets. Like Evans said, I'm surprised to not have the same sound as in the walkthrough, so I did this test with only Main mic.


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## Ben (Dec 12, 2021)

matthieuL said:


> I'm using Mixer presets. Like Evans said, I'm surprised to not have the same sound as in the walkthrough, so I did this test with only Main mic.


My best guess: There is an algorithmic reverb on the master bus of the DAW, but I can't confirm it - maybe @FabioA remembers 
Adding some algorithmic reverb to get that sweet tail is quite easy to achieve, and most DAW will come with some kind of reverb that you could try to use, in case you don't have access to a reverb plugin you like.


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## FabioA (Dec 12, 2021)

Ben said:


> My best guess: There is an algorithmic reverb on the master bus of the DAW, but I can't confirm it - maybe @FabioA remembers
> Adding some algorithmic reverb to get that sweet tail is quite easy to achieve, and most DAW will come with some kind of reverb that you could try to use, in case you don't have access to a reverb plugin you like.


Hey,

unless of a send to a reverb I overlooked on my Cubase template (that I tend to exclude since I pay very much attention for the reasons @matthieuL said, and because otherwise the same tail would have been very clear on the close mics as well), the only things I can think of is:

- to perceive the full tail of the sample, you have to make the midi events longer, as if you play a shorter event than the sample itself, the release fades out the tail sooner, as supposed to be. This is something very clear for percussions like the piatti or cymbals.

The only processing I have to do sometimes, to get a decent loudness for Youtube, is a transparent limiting I try to keep around -3 to -6


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## FabioA (Dec 12, 2021)

Another thing I can think of, as at the time my workflow with screen captures softwares wasn't ideal (and I am still trying to improve that to make better video and hopefully faster ) is that I had to re-capture again that part, and in the actual audio, the Synchron Mixer reverb channel was soloed as well for the Decca and the Surrounds).
If that's the case I apologise for the discrepancy!


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## matthieuL (Dec 12, 2021)

FabioA said:


> Hey,
> 
> unless of a send to a reverb I overlooked on my Cubase template (that I tend to exclude since I pay very much attention for the reasons @matthieuL said, and because otherwise the same tail would have been very clear on the close mics as well), the only things I can think of is:
> 
> ...


I didn't know about that. Thank you very much


----------



## matthieuL (Dec 12, 2021)

FabioA said:


> I had to re-capture again that part, and in the actual audio, the Synchron Mixer reverb channel was soloed as well for the Decca and the Surrounds).
> If that's the case I apologise for the discrepancy!


The Mixer reverb channel doesn't bring many room in this preset, so the result is more or less the same.


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## Petrucci (Dec 12, 2021)

matthieuL said:


> The Mixer reverb channel doesn't bring many room in this preset, so the result is more or less the same.


I can try it out tomorrow but in my memory in all VSL Mixpresets the included reverb actually makes instruments sounding pretty wet..! Usually I switch this reverb off and mute reverb channel in Synchron Player and then make a send to my own reverb to save system resources and because I tend to like drier sound. And if in that case some instruments are now too dry I lower or mute Close and maybe Mid mics (I usually always use Surround To Stereo Wide Mixpreset).


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## Erisno (Dec 13, 2021)

@matthieuL 
You may also try increasing the release (default 64), which might make the original room tail longer.


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## matthieuL (Dec 13, 2021)

FabioA said:


> - to perceive the full tail of the sample, you have to make the midi events longer, as if you play a shorter event than the sample itself, the release fades out the tail sooner, as supposed to be. This is something very clear for percussions like the piatti or cymbals.


I understand the interest of this behaviour (get clean repeated shorts for example), but it is not convenient for notation. A longer midi event will result in a longer duration in the notation (I'm using Cubase), so I will have to fix the music sheet for all the shorts I wanted with a normal full tail. 
Is there a way to switch on/off this behaviour in Synchron Player ? 
Or a trick in Cubase ? (I tried in Expression Map to increase the length of the articulation, but 200% is the max and is not enough)


----------



## matthieuL (Dec 13, 2021)

Erisno said:


> @matthieuL
> You may also try increasing the release (default 64), which might make the original room tail longer.


I realize it's the solution to my previous question in the above post. Just put the pedal (CC64) on the short we want with short midi event but with long release ! 
Thanks ! I hope it helps some people.

(is the action of CC64 documented somewhere ? I don't see it in the perform and control tabs in Synchron Player, and I see a release parameter set by default at CC23)


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## cet34f (Dec 14, 2021)

matthieuL said:


> I realize it's the solution to my previous question in the above post. Just put the pedal (CC64) on the short we want with short midi event but with long release !
> Thanks ! I hope it helps some people.
> 
> (is the action of CC64 documented somewhere ? I don't see it in the perform and control tabs in Synchron Player, and I see a release parameter set by default at CC23)


The CC64 holds the NOTE OFF message. The Sychron Player has more reverb tail when CC64 is active probably because it stops responding to the NOTE OFF message and does not trigger the release script. It's part of the MIDI standard.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 20, 2021)

@Ben I noticed some of the patches have a duplicate long articulation categories - but I can't tell if there's any difference between the original group and the duplicate. Is that just a mistake or meant to be for something? It's even in the manual (for example, Longs under Trombones a9 https://www.vsl.info/en/instruments/synchron/brass).


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## Ben (Dec 20, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> @Ben I noticed some of the patches have a duplicate long articulation categories - but I can't tell if there's any difference between the original group and the duplicate. Is that just a mistake or meant to be for something? It's even in the manual (for example, Longs under Trombones a9 https://www.vsl.info/en/instruments/synchron/brass).


It's just a copy of the original slot structure, so it's compatible to the other instrument presets.


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## DJiLAND (Mar 23, 2022)

The unfortunate thing about using Synchron Brass is that the Horn a2 patch is missing and there is no fast legato in the a6 patch. The lack of fast legato, especially on the a6, is a bit lethal. Weak on agile pessages. (Well.. I am somehow solving it with time stretch and various articulations, or custom patches.)
I hope fast(agile) legato can be updated with glissando.
Other than that, it's generally pretty good. I am using it very well. 
For now, I will use Synchron Brass as my main brass library and replace weak parts of Synchron Brass with another library. (But I'd like to do it all with Synchron Brass. Please update!)


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## holywilly (Mar 23, 2022)

DJiLAND said:


> I hope fast(agile) legato can be updated with glissando.


I LOVE the glissandi legato transitions in Dimension Brass, wish it’s included in Synchron Brass.


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## Zedcars (Apr 14, 2022)

Hello,

I posted this in the Member’s Compositions & Mock-ups forum. I hope you don’t mind if I post this here as well. This is my first big mock-up I’ve tried to do. The Synchron Brass (and whole series) really helped me get a realistic sound. I used the Wide Surround to Stereo mix and added a tiny bit extra widening on the master outs.

The muted trumpets were achieved with Sordina – A Muted Instrument Emulator by Librewave.

Superman Prologue and Main Title by John Williams (otherwise known as the Superman March):



Kind regards,
Darren


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## alcorey (Apr 15, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> Hello,
> 
> I posted this in the Member’s Compositions & Mock-ups forum. I hope you don’t mind if I post this here as well. This is my first big mock-up I’ve tried to do. The Synchron Brass (and whole series) really helped me get a realistic sound. I used the Wide Surround to Stereo mix and added a tiny bit extra widening on the master outs.
> 
> ...



Clearly a superb production! Bravo! 

How many man hours would you say it took to finish, if I may ask?


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## Zedcars (Apr 15, 2022)

alcorey said:


> Clearly a superb production! Bravo!
> 
> How many man hours would you say it took to finish, if I may ask?


Thank you very much.

I tried to estimate this and it is somewhere north of 700. Started in 2019 and worked on it off and on. I’m not sure I’d do another one any time soon due to how much work was involved (far more than I anticipated due to my inexperience and other commitments).


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## Nimrod7 (Apr 15, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> I posted this in the Member’s Compositions & Mock-ups forum.


Love it Darren! 
You nailed it, love the motion graphics a lot! Real 80s Superman mood!


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## jaketanner (Apr 15, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> Hello,
> 
> I posted this in the Member’s Compositions & Mock-ups forum. I hope you don’t mind if I post this here as well. This is my first big mock-up I’ve tried to do. The Synchron Brass (and whole series) really helped me get a realistic sound. I used the Wide Surround to Stereo mix and added a tiny bit extra widening on the master outs.
> 
> ...



I don't mean to knock this effort at all, but I just don't get it (the effort that is). I might be missing things when I hear mockups that are this long...why spend so much time for something that you essentially can't use or reflects anything to do with scoring to picture? I mean, why not mockup just the main sequence for about a minute or so instead of the entire thing? I get it's to learn, and maybe to test drive a library, but you can do that with your own material too...I could never justify the effort it takes to make these, so I do applaud your time. I see one guy that makes mock up after mock up of Hans' music...as good as any mock up is, it's never as good as the original anyway, (unless it's John Powell, LOL) and again...for what purpose? I am really just trying to understand why people do it. I was asked to do a mockup of a Batman piece (a bit obscure at that) for a school project a while back...I just couldn't do it..LOL I mean it was pointless...I can just look at the score...why did I need to actually mock it up? Luckily it wasn't graded...LOL


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## Zanshin (Apr 15, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> I don't mean to knock this effort at all, but I just don't get it (the effort that is)...


We all have our own drivers, not everyone is looking to make music for a living. He wouldn't spend that much time on something unless it was a passion for him.

BTW @Zedcars it's brilliant


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## jaketanner (Apr 15, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> We all have our own drivers, not everyone is looking to make music for a living. He wouldn't spend that much time on something unless it was a passion for him.
> 
> BTW @Zedcars it's brilliant


that I can understand


----------



## Zedcars (Apr 15, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> I don't mean to knock this effort at all, but I just don't get it (the effort that is). I might be missing things when I hear mockups that are this long...why spend so much time for something that you essentially can't use or reflects anything to do with scoring to picture? I mean, why not mockup just the main sequence for about a minute or so instead of the entire thing? I get it's to learn, and maybe to test drive a library, but you can do that with your own material too...I could never justify the effort it takes to make these, so I do applaud your time. I see one guy that makes mock up after mock up of Hans' music...as good as any mock up is, it's never as good as the original anyway, (unless it's John Powell, LOL) and again...for what purpose? I am really just trying to understand why people do it. I was asked to do a mockup of a Batman piece (a bit obscure at that) for a school project a while back...I just couldn't do it..LOL I mean it was pointless...I can just look at the score...why did I need to actually mock it up? Luckily it wasn't graded...LOL


I understand your bemusement. But with me I get very obsessed with finishing things as best I can from start to finish. I have OCD too so I will often do things that have zero benefit other than to serve this affliction.

But please don’t underestimate the learning aspect, even though you appreciate that is part of it. There is so much you can learn by seeing a project through and getting into the fine details. Plus (as some can hear) there are still things that I need to address with the mix. So once I attempt to do that I will learn some more. I’m still an amateur and I want to get better. Once I’ve seen what I can achieve with the tools I have then I will be much better at creating my own pieces realistically (or not depending on how hard I try and my own limitations).

I am a hobbyist. I hear great mock-ups done every week and thought to myself I wonder if I could get close to that level of expertise and professionalism.

And lastly I have been in love with Superman The Movie and Williams’ score since I was a kid. It was really a labour of love for me you see.

To be honest it actually helps me a great deal as I suffer with anxiety and depression and so it helps me focus and keep positive. My own self esteem is very low, having been bullied and told I was no good at anything much by my teachers at school, school mates, and in adult life even work colleagues and managers. I have dyslexia so struggled to learn in the conventional way all my life. Not trying to get sympathy just explain my situation. I haven’t got it hard really compared to what’s going on in the world. In fact I’m very lucky to be able to afford this expensive hobby. We’re all so lucky to have access to all this amazingly good gear and software and samples. It’s incredible! What a time to be alive.


----------



## jaketanner (Apr 15, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> I understand your bemusement. But with me I get very obsessed with finishing things as best I can from start to finish. I have OCD too so I will often do things that have zero benefit other than to serve this affliction.
> 
> But please don’t underestimate the learning aspect, even though you appreciate that is part of it. There is so much you can learn by seeing a project through and getting into the fine details. Plus (as some can hear) there are still things that I need to address with the mix. So once I attempt to do that I will learn some more. I’m still an amateur and I want to get better. Once I’ve seen what I can achieve with the tools I have then I will be much better at creating my own pieces realistically (or not depending on how hard I try and my own limitations).
> 
> ...


All points well taken...thanks for sharing. I know how hard some of the afflictions you mentioned are...My wife suffers with all of that as well, and creativity does help quite a bit.


----------



## doctoremmet (Apr 15, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> I understand your bemusement. But with me I get very obsessed with finishing things as best I can from start to finish. I have OCD too so I will often do things that have zero benefit other than to serve this affliction.
> 
> But please don’t underestimate the learning aspect, even though you appreciate that is part of it. There is so much you can learn by seeing a project through and getting into the fine details. Plus (as some can hear) there are still things that I need to address with the mix. So once I attempt to do that I will learn some more. I’m still an amateur and I want to get better. Once I’ve seen what I can achieve with the tools I have then I will be much better at creating my own pieces realistically (or not depending on how hard I try and my own limitations).
> 
> ...


Thanks for making a brilliant mockup! And also thanks for sharing the above. ❤️


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## Michael Antrum (Apr 18, 2022)

Those people who told you that weren’t much good at anything…..

They couldn’t be more wrong.


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## prodigalson (Apr 19, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> All points well taken...thanks for sharing. I know how hard some of the afflictions you mentioned are...My wife suffers with all of that as well, and creativity does help quite a bit.


Some people build tiny ships in bottles, some people make mock-ups...


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## jaketanner (Apr 20, 2022)

prodigalson said:


> Some people build tiny ships in bottles, some people make mock-ups...


I guess..LOL


----------



## aeliron (Apr 20, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> I don't mean to knock this effort at all, but I just don't get it (the effort that is). I might be missing things when I hear mockups that are this long...why spend so much time for something that you essentially can't use or reflects anything to do with scoring to picture? I mean, why not mockup just the main sequence for about a minute or so instead of the entire thing? I get it's to learn, and maybe to test drive a library, but you can do that with your own material too...I could never justify the effort it takes to make these, so I do applaud your time. I see one guy that makes mock up after mock up of Hans' music...as good as any mock up is, it's never as good as the original anyway, (unless it's John Powell, LOL) and again...for what purpose? I am really just trying to understand why people do it. I was asked to do a mockup of a Batman piece (a bit obscure at that) for a school project a while back...I just couldn't do it..LOL I mean it was pointless...I can just look at the score...why did I need to actually mock it up? Luckily it wasn't graded...LOL


BTW, it’s the same with art, Chinese calligraphy, lead guitar, etc. - imitate the masters to understand what makes them great, and how. 

The sincerest form of flattery … and a great way to learn before developing your own style 😄


----------



## liquidlino (Aug 28, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> Hello,
> 
> I posted this in the Member’s Compositions & Mock-ups forum. I hope you don’t mind if I post this here as well. This is my first big mock-up I’ve tried to do. The Synchron Brass (and whole series) really helped me get a realistic sound. I used the Wide Surround to Stereo mix and added a tiny bit extra widening on the master outs.
> 
> ...



Hands down the best mockup of any music I've heard/seen. Bar a couple of dodgy woodwinds runs, this truly sounds amazing, and is the best sales pitch for Synchron that is out there. VSL should feature this! Oddly, if I do a search for synchron on youtube, this doesn't come up - don't know if you need to add some more keywords etc to the video to help it in search results?


----------



## Zedcars (Aug 28, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> Hands down the best mockup of any music I've heard/seen. Bar a couple of dodgy woodwinds runs, this truly sounds amazing, and is the best sales pitch for Synchron that is out there. VSL should feature this! Oddly, if I do a search for synchron on youtube, this doesn't come up - don't know if you need to add some more keywords etc to the video to help it in search results?


Oh that’s odd. Did you search “Superman Synchron” or “Superman MIDI Mock-up”? Works for me when not signed in (using Incognito Mode). Maybe it’s some kind of problem with your country and the copyright claim I got on it? Not sure.

I do have a new mix another member helped me with. I just need to ask their permission before I share it.

Thanks again for listening and your kind words. But I can hear some problems with the mix now I’ve had time away from it.


----------



## liquidlino (Aug 28, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> Oh that’s odd. Did you search “Superman Synchron” or “Superman MIDI Mock-up”? Works for me when not signed in (using Incognito Mode). Maybe it’s some kind of problem with your country and the copyright claim I got on it? Not sure.
> 
> I do have a new mix another member helped me with. I just need to ask their permission before I share it.
> 
> Thanks again for listening and your kind words. But I can hear some problems with the mix now I’ve had time away from it.


Video comes up fine in Australia. It's more that when I was generically searching for Synchron mockups and demos in youtube over the last few weeks, I never came across this mockup. Only saw it by chance reviewing this thread. I was doing searches like "VSL Synchron Mockup" and "VSL Synchron Strings Pro". Will be interested to hear the new mix!


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## Zedcars (Aug 28, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> Video comes up fine in Australia. It's more that when I was generically searching for Synchron mockups and demos in youtube over the last few weeks, I never came across this mockup. Only saw it by chance reviewing this thread. I was doing searches like "VSL Synchron Mockup" and "VSL Synchron Strings Pro". Will be interested to hear the new mix!


Oh that’s probably because my subscriber count and like count is tiny.  I seem to remember I did add some tags to improve discovery in searches but I guess Google’s algorithm will still favour videos that have more interest from the get go.

I will post the new version if my mix SOS friend is happy with that.


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## Zedcars (Aug 29, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> Video comes up fine in Australia. It's more that when I was generically searching for Synchron mockups and demos in youtube over the last few weeks, I never came across this mockup. Only saw it by chance reviewing this thread. I was doing searches like "VSL Synchron Mockup" and "VSL Synchron Strings Pro". Will be interested to hear the new mix!


Hi,

I posted the new mixes (x2) here. I kindly got some help from member petec:






Superman Prologue & Main Title MIDI Mock-up Featuring VSL Synchron Series [New Mix August 2022]


Edit: 29th August 2022: 2 new mixes — see below. ------------ORIGINAL POST 14th April 2022------------ Hello, I started this in 2019. I'm uncertain how many man hours it has taken me but it must be around 700 or more. It's my first big mock-up. Any advice about the mix would be really...




vi-control.net


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## jamwerks (Aug 29, 2022)

I'm really not liking the fact that the ensembles (that came out originally as Big Bang installements) don't have the same variety of shorts that the soloists have. Why would VSL do this? They are usually so complete and forward thinking!

I often layer a solo player behind an ensemble (Trp. à6 + Trp. Solo), but that doesn't work here. Same problem with the woodwinds between soloists and à3 patches!!!


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## A.Dern (Sep 3, 2022)

kmm08 said:


> Having constant random crashes when using Synchron player latest version (v.2037 downloaded 07/13/21). Just changing presets randomly crashes both the standalone version as well as the plugin version in VEPro 7.
> 
> Attached are Synchron Player logs form today, Crash Reports from Synchron Player & VEPro7, and some of the user presets I created and been using.
> 
> ...


Huh, same thing started to happen to me this week (hence why I'm scouring the internet for potential solutions). I updated my Cubase template and moved Synchron Brass over to my VEP machine. I had initially loaded it straight into my DAW for testing and it worked perfectly fine there (even running from a spinning drive). But it crashes constantly inside VEP (running from an SSD) whenever I change any settings. First, the player freezes and becomes invisible, then my entire VEP project crashes. Even restarting the VEP project does not make the player visible again. The slot is still there but when I click on it, nothing happens. Had to kick Synchron Brass out of my template entirely because this is unworkable on a deadline - kind of a shame because that first trumpet is 🔥🔥🔥


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## Erisno (Sep 3, 2022)

A.Dern said:


> Huh, same thing started to happen to me this week (hence why I'm scouring the internet for potential solutions). I updated my Cubase template and moved Synchron Brass over to my VEP machine. I had initially loaded it straight into my DAW for testing and it worked perfectly fine there (even running from a spinning drive). But it crashes constantly inside VEP (running from an SSD) whenever I change any settings. First, the player freezes and becomes invisible, then my entire VEP project crashes. Even restarting the VEP project does not make the player visible again. The slot is still there but when I click on it, nothing happens. Had to kick Synchron Brass out of my template entirely because this is unworkable on a deadline - kind of a shame because that first trumpet is 🔥🔥🔥


Hi @A.Dern , 
I have checked your VSL account, and you have not yet switched to iLok. I recommend switching to iLok to be able to use the latest versions of our software, which might solve the issue. (Current software versions: VEPro 7.1.1406, SY Player v1.2.174).
Here you can learn how to switch to iLok:





FAQ: iLok | VSL - Tutorials







www.vsl.info




You will need to re-download the sample content again for iLok, so I recommend switching when you are in-between projects.
If any questions pop up, please contact us at [email protected]
---
Erik Snopko
VSL Support Team


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