# Jordanian pilot



## JohnG (Feb 3, 2015)

I am so sorry for him, his mother, the rest of his family. Sometimes I don't know.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 3, 2015)

It's just beyond disgusting. I find it very heard even to listen to the story on the news.

Meanwhile Jordan executed two prisoners in retaliation.


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## José Herring (Feb 3, 2015)

Boots on the ground, they need to die.


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## AC986 (Feb 4, 2015)

I explained all this a ton of times. Not going to bother again.


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## pixel (Feb 4, 2015)

Millions of anonymous people (children to) are tortured, beaten, raped and brutally killed every day. 
After many years of "evoultion" we're still more animals than humans.


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## KEnK (Feb 4, 2015)

pixel @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> Millions of anonymous people (children to) are tortured, beaten, raped and brutally killed every day.
> After many years of "evoultion" we're still more animals than humans.


Not really
Animals don't behave so savagely or cruelly.


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## Michael K. Bain (Feb 4, 2015)

KEnK @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> pixel @ Wed Feb 04 said:
> 
> 
> > Millions of anonymous people (children to) are tortured, beaten, raped and brutally killed every day.
> ...


100 % correct.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 4, 2015)

The beast within.

Still, as far as I know none of us here does any of that. We're not all monsters.


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## José Herring (Feb 4, 2015)

Nick Batzdorf @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> The beast within.
> 
> Still, as far as I know none of us here does any of that. We're not all monsters.



Thankfully not too many people are capable of it. But the ones that are can inspire the more weak minded to do their bidding and cause a lot of havoc.

That's why they need to be disrupted. Leaders killed and the group scattered.


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## Soundhound (Feb 4, 2015)

I do think it's important to remember how this happened. When the U.S. invaded Iraq (for absolutely no reason) the left warned about creating a power vacuum in the already volatile middle east. That is exactly what happened. Isis was brought to you courtesy of the Bush administration. 

We are still dealing with the repercussions of the Western powers partitioning the middle east at the beginning of the 20th century. I'm afraid we'll be dealing with the results of Bush and Cheney's ignorance, greed and hubris for the rest of this century.


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## TGV (Feb 4, 2015)

KEnK @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> Animals don't behave so savagely or cruelly.


You're rather wrong there. Animals do kill members of their own species. Rather violently, sometimes. Chimps even murder infant chimps, and so do dolphins, apparently.


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## RiffWraith (Feb 4, 2015)

TGV @ Thu Feb 05 said:


> KEnK @ Wed Feb 04 said:
> 
> 
> > Animals don't behave so savagely or cruelly.
> ...



Correct. Male lions will kill the cubs of an unrelated pride so the females of that pride will go into heat, thereby continuing their own bloodline. As it translates to humans... what's worse? Killing a man by burning him alive, or killing three young children so that you may use the mother to foster your own children? 

As for blaming Bush - of course it's Bush's fault. What isn't Bush's fault? :roll: 

The current ISIS situation is _absolutely not _Bush's fault. Saying it is, is like saying WWII and the atrocities carried out by the Nazi Party are the fault of the League of Nations.

Cheers.


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## Soundhound (Feb 4, 2015)

That's a ridiculous analogy, something I would expect to hear from a Fox News audience member, which would be the last thing I thought I'd run cross on this forum. 

Granted, it is difficult to find something that isn't Bush's fault. He was a disaster of epic proportions. He left the country on the cusp of bankruptcy, hopelessly embroiled in two pointless, utterly unnecessary, unwinable wars. And some 50 million people voted for him. Twice. The mind reels. 

If we hadn't invaded Iraq there would be no Isis. It is absolutely Bush's fault. (Really Cheney, Bush had no idea what was going on).




RiffWraith @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> TGV @ Thu Feb 05 said:
> 
> 
> > KEnK @ Wed Feb 04 said:
> ...


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## RiffWraith (Feb 4, 2015)

Soundhound @ Thu Feb 05 said:


> That's a ridiculous analogy, something I would expect to hear from a Fox News audience member,



I hate to break it to you #1 - I only watch Fox News occasionally; but watch and listen to and read ALL media outlets to some degree. Saying that anyone who forms this opinion must be a Fox news fan is ridiculous unto itself.



Soundhound @ Thu Feb 05 said:


> That's a ridiculous analogy,



I hate to break it to you #2 - that is the_ perfect _analogy. Two situations that were a direct result of prior choices made by world leaders; neither situation initiated by those leaders.


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## Soundhound (Feb 4, 2015)

Before I let this get any farther, I should ask: Do you watch Fox News purely to see what the right wing fascist progpaganda machine is cooking up, or does it inform your world view to any measurable degree?


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## RiffWraith (Feb 4, 2015)

Soundhound @ Thu Feb 05 said:


> Before I let this get any farther, I should ask: Do you watch Fox News purely to see what the right wing fascist progpaganda machine is cooking up, or does it inform your world view to any measurable degree?



Huh?!?!? What the hell does FN have to do with me comparing the USA invading Iraq to the Treaty of Versailles???


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## Soundhound (Feb 4, 2015)

I want to see that I'm not talking with someone who drinks the Fox News koolaid. Life is too short. I'm hoping I'm wrong in thinking that you do, and we can continue.


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## chimuelo (Feb 4, 2015)

Very Sad indeed.

Not as sad as seeing people fighting over Liberal and Conservative media though.
It's a rigged game meant for Sheep.
Use to be local and national, now that there's big campaign money in it we get Liberal or Conservative.
Neither parties represent America's Middle Class, so I guess it's for the very rich here, and the very poor.

Everything is for sale in the USA, wake up.
Even the NYTimes should be called the Sinaloa Times since it's owned by Mexicans.

ISIS needs it's ass kicked, by Arabs not Americans.
But it would be wise to keep bombing their convoys and make sure only little bitty insignificant bombings are mentioned. This way Liberals can wage war and still claim to be anti war.


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## Soundhound (Feb 4, 2015)

Oy. I agree that the game is rigged and that we're probably screwed. But I completely disagree that there is not a discussion to be had about the modern media. Fox News has been feeding its viewers fear and ignorance for a long time, facilitating a far right point of view that has no relation to what is going on in the world. fundamentalism (of all stripes) has been an increasing problem for more than a generation now, and Bush and Cheney poured gasoline on the fire, ensuring decades of enmity. Not to say that it doesn't have to be dealt with, it most surely does, but mindless blood lust and fear is what Cheney used to get us to invade a country that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. The maniacs on the right are spoiling for a war with Iran. If a Republican is elected president in 2016, then you probably can at that point kiss your ass goodbye.


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## Soundhound (Feb 4, 2015)

It's a Sean ha nitty level analogy. Kind of like saying that since humans and chairs both have arms and legs, they are the same thing. So what's the upshot on your Fox News status?



RiffWraith @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> Soundhound @ Thu Feb 05 said:
> 
> 
> > That's a ridiculous analogy, something I would expect to hear from a Fox News audience member,
> ...


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## RiffWraith (Feb 4, 2015)

LOL - you are waiting to see what my Fox News status is to continue the convo??? :lol: As I said earlier, I watch Fox News occasionally; but watch and listen to and read ALL media outlets to some degree. I don't put too much stock in one media outlet, nor the media in general. I take everything with a grain of salt; they are there (for the most part) to make money. It's all about the ratings and advertising dollars.

And for the record, I can't stand Sean Hannity. Would never_ think _of watching that show.

Not sure what you are expecting of me here. If you think I have a stern interest in debating the war in Iraq, the end of WWI and who is on the wrong side of history, think again. I do not. I simply made the point that your assessment of ISIS being Bush's fault is wrong. Which it is. And I did so with a solid analogy, which is based on factual history. You disagree and think the analogy is "ridiculous"; that's fine. You are of course entitled to your opinion. But you are wrong. 

And I have no desire, nor the time to debate that with you, nor anyone else. 

Cheers.


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## NYC Composer (Feb 4, 2015)

"As for blaming Bush - of course it's Bush's fault. What isn't Bush's fault?"

Specific fault for ISIS aside-really, Jeffrey? You think the liberals have been piling on poor George? Going into Iraq for absolutely no good reason, with the hundreds of thousands dead and millions displaced-you don't think that's a good reason to pile on poor George? How about the mismanagement of that ridiculous war, the loss of standing in the world vis a vis moral high ground, the horrible corporate brown bagging that went on? How about the cost to the nation and to veterans, fighting a truly despicable, unnecessary war? Too much blame for G.W.?

How about Afghanistan? Didn't we go there to get Bin Laden and punish the Taliban for shielding him? What was the point of the longevity of the thing? What good have we done over there?

What about complete lack of recognition of the mortgage bubble? I don't say it was all his fault, not at all, but he certainly bears some responsibility as his people seemed asleep at the wheel.

There's a lot I don't fault GWB for. I even give him credit for compassion for AIDS in Africa, for going to bat (unsuccessfully) for immigration reform and for a few other things, but let's get real here-Cheney aside, the buck stopped with him, and he went along for this ride, which we will be paying for forever.


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## NYC Composer (Feb 4, 2015)

To the point-I'm very sorry about the Jordanian pilot, as I am about the journalists who have been murdered in despicable ways-but this death may be a slight turning point. There are certain watershed moments where you can smell the shifting tides -this might be one of them. I hope so.


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## JonFairhurst (Feb 4, 2015)

I hope that the display of the torturous murder of the pilot awakens the Muslim world to take care of ISIS and those who would follow them. This isn't the US vs. Islam. ISIS is a group of power hungry, immoral people against everybody.

Regarding "Bush's fault", his Administration played the single most pivotal role by starting the war in Iraq. This was many orders of magnitude larger than some flapping butterfly wing.

Regarding Hitler, the book Hitler's Willing Executioners doesn't start with 1932 or Versailles for that matter. It starts with German anti semitic politics of the late 1800s. Similarly, we can trace things back to oil empires, the formation of Israel, the revolution in Iran, 9-11, and yes, Bush. Bush/Cheney made a decision that didn't have to be made. Most everything after that has been a response, reaction, or adjustment to that. The one response that wasn't available? Putting the Bush genie back in the bottle. 

So yeah, lots of stuff comes into play. But the decision to go to war in Iraq was the most recent, unjustified, wrong choice in the chain of events.

Don't forget that PNAC openly shared documents that called for the invasion of Iraq not long before Bush was elected. The invasion wasn't a response. It was a strategy.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 4, 2015)

And if the public had been made aware of what the PNAC was actually saying, no way could those monsters have been elected.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 4, 2015)

In any case, I find this story one of the more upsetting ones in recent history. There have been tragedies with more people killed, but this is especially awful because of how personal it is.


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## Soundhound (Feb 4, 2015)

I'm just reacting to your analogy, which is entirely nonsensical. I think George Bush is responsible for Isis, which is certainly debate material--but not for you and I. I asked about Fox News because I discovered that I can't have a conversation with anyone who takes them seriously, who doesn't understand that it is pure propaganda. Lumping them in with the rest of the media is an alarming idea (even considering how bad most of the media). I am very glad to hear you can't stand Sean Hannity.






RiffWraith @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> LOL - you are waiting to see what my Fox News status is to continue the convo??? :lol: As I said earlier, I watch Fox News occasionally; but watch and listen to and read ALL media outlets to some degree. I don't put too much stock in one media outlet, nor the media in general. I take everything with a grain of salt; they are there (for the most part) to make money. It's all about the ratings and advertising dollars.
> 
> And for the record, I can't stand Sean Hannity. Would never_ think _of watching that show.
> 
> ...


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## chimuelo (Feb 4, 2015)

Soundhound @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> If a Republican is elected president in 2016, then you probably can at that point kiss your ass goodbye.



So then this anti-GOP blathering is your answer...?

Have you forgot the rich white Liberals that voted YES in Congress...?
What about the NYTimes......? The Polls to invade showed 35-40% until they were instructed to run the Headline of "WMDs In Iraq" that made the polls to invade soar to the high 70% range...

Maybe you lost a mate to a Conservative Stud, or you honestly believe these media outlets are here to give you news, honest and unbiased.....LoL.
Nothing to do with the Corporate ads where Wonder Bread builds a body 12 different ways, or the billions they make in negative campaign ads from Billionaires and Super Pacs.

These 2 Crime Families live under a rather large Umbrella that they prosper from, those who are outside of that are new in town, or as the "media" would label them, "Fringe" elements.
And while you follow the pointed finger the real con artists are free from criticism even after giving speeches, then voting the opposite way.....

If my ass is going to get kissed good bye it will be from hoardes of the Sheep they indoctrinate.


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## NYC Composer (Feb 4, 2015)

Baaaaaaaaaa! Baaaaaaa!


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## Soundhound (Feb 5, 2015)

I haven't forgotten them. And I don't think the news from any media outlet is unbiased. But I also think that your way of looking at it is too easy, it's a way of not thinking about it really. And this is a particularly bad time for nihilism. I get disgusted reading the paper and sometimes give myself a break and impose a news ban for a few days. But I always come back because I'm interested and concerned. 

The idea that there is no difference between, say Eilzabeth Warren and Rand Paul isn't a considered opinion, it's throwing your hands up. 

And why is it that libertarians and right wingers always seem to find the time for the infantile? 'Conservative Stud'? I like the init caps there, it suggests an awful lot, in case you're not aware of it. As William Holden said, I gave up comparing genitals in the schoolyard. If you fancy yourself a nihilist, I'm assuming you'll get the reference. 





chimuelo @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> Soundhound @ Wed Feb 04 said:
> 
> 
> > If a Republican is elected president in 2016, then you probably can at that point kiss your ass goodbye.
> ...


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## G.R. Baumann (Feb 5, 2015)

I am with you on that statement, very much so!



> ISIS needs it's ass kicked, by Arabs not Americans


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## Walid F. (Feb 5, 2015)

There we go. Battle on, Abdullah, King of Jordan! 

http://toprightnews.com/?p=8221

W.

*EDIT*: Bah, this seems to be groundless. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/no-jordans-kin ... is-1486742

The air strike was carried out though, so lets see what happens.


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## chimuelo (Feb 5, 2015)

More bombings that were expected, a show of force from a distance, nothing to do anything to dismantle ISIS.
Regardless of their barbarity, the world seems to want ISIS in the Middle East or they would have been removed when large convoys from Syria started fanning out, that was 2 -3 years ago.
Maybe John Kerry can make a statement about how we will bomb a certain driveway, at a certain time and date, to show ISIS we mean business.....

Get use to these barbaric incidents, they are going to keep happening w/o any consequences. The Syrian Air Force isn't doing anything, and there's a reason for not attacking an occupying force.
1) you have no army or planes.
2) they really aren't a threat.
3) It's better to let the Arab American occupiers kill each other as in Syrian Free Army vrs. ISIS, both started by our policies and funding.

And we keep calling the Syrian Free Army and Saudis "moderate" Arabs..........Why is that because they only behead monthly...?

Next year Iran will have Nuclear Weapons, and there will be a huge Arms Race. Guess who gets to sell the Middle East weapons they need...........
Better than taxing folks more money just for going to work or saving for their kids College.

And yes by all means keep watching your favorite liars in the media, they make as much as evil CEOs but obviously have millions of Sheep.

Brian Williams has lied to Americans for years, Florida voting results up to his brave fight against Iraqi defenders, which everyone knows he's full of shit, but gosh, we need to visit more youtube stars now as they are getting close to the 10 million viewers which makes Lamestream Media stars rich....

I liked the Black gal eating Cereal from a bathtub of Milk that our President took tough questions from...........
She asked tougher questions than the Press Corps lap dogs that Sheep have come to trust and worship.


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## NYC Composer (Feb 5, 2015)

Baaaaaaaaa!! BAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!


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## pixel (Feb 5, 2015)

From previous posts I conclude that many of you think that media are showing all cruelty in the world and there is nothing more. This is wrong. As I'm interested in and I support "Anti-slavery", "Anti-Human Trafficking" organisations I have read about things where to be burnt alive is like a salvation... :cry: 
I don't even want to wrote about examples because it's like: 
Imagine the most horrible, brutal, horrific methods of torture, abuse and rape. Multiply that by several decades, starting as low as six years of age (example, can be lower). Imagine that thousands of people experiencing such suffering right now. In your country. In your city. Maybe even in your neighbourhood. But nobody care of them because there is no political interest in it. 
We should thanks God (or whatever you believe as i am atheist  ) that our problems are like deadlines


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## InLight-Tone (Feb 5, 2015)

When humans kill, murder and ingest animals, they become sub-animals...


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## JohnG (Feb 5, 2015)

Well, we've strayed on to vegetarianism and politics.

Fair enough, it's a public forum.

I just am having a hard time thinking about that poor pilot, his wife, his family. Lots of bad things do happen every day but there is something so sick and terrible about this perversion of humanity that I can't get over it.


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## InLight-Tone (Feb 5, 2015)

I agree, it's heart wrenching and sickening, so are the be-headings. My feeling though, as was portrayed in the movie Moses, is that humans have descended from a peaceful co-existence with all of Life through their own habits to what WE have here today. In other words I don't believe that humans are naturally violent but have become so through mutation, OUR natural state is one of pure Love...


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## choc0thrax (Feb 5, 2015)

Annnywhhooo..... the terrible things humans do are a result of us being a violent animal but having the intelligence and creativity to go to darker places than the dumber animals. Look at other smart animals - dolphins take glee in torturing smaller creatures etc.

And then there's this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/1 ... 68961.html


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## Dspec1 (Feb 5, 2015)

JohnG @ Thu Feb 05 said:


> Well, we've strayed on to vegetarianism and politics.
> 
> Fair enough, it's a public forum.
> 
> I just am having a hard time thinking about that poor pilot, his wife, his family. Lots of bad things do happen every day but there is something so sick and terrible about this perversion of humanity that I can't get over it.



Echoes my precise feelings on this. Very well said. 

I've lost the correct words for the acts of barbarism carried out by these beasts. 

Bless those who fight against this plague and those who speak out against their deranged views.


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## NYC Composer (Feb 5, 2015)

I can't help but think this barbaric killing (far more so than beheadings, in my opinion) may be anti-motivational to the potential recruits around the globe. They may be all about signing on to protect Muslins and therefore become Islamic Jedi, but even so, the obvious savagery and lack of honor in the way this was done would likely give pause even to the most hardened potential trainee.


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## Soundhound (Feb 5, 2015)

+ a million! 

I haven't been able to bring myself to watch it, or any of these videos, the beheadings... have any of you guys actually watched them? I can't imagine...




NYC Composer @ Thu Feb 05 said:


> I can't help but think this barbaric killing (far more so than beheadings, in my opinion) may be anti-motivational to the potential recruits around the globe. They may be all about signing on to protect Muslins and therefore become Islamic Jedi, but even so, the obvious savagery and lack of honor in the way this was done would likely give pause even to the most hardened potential trainee.


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## Soundhound (Feb 5, 2015)

http://billmoyers.com/2015/02/05/isis-b ... -lynching/


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## snowleopard (Feb 7, 2015)

It would be interesting to see a study on how much publicity western media gives to ISIS beheadings vs Saudi Arabia (or just anti-ISIS) ones, as I can't seem to find anything. For example, this kind of headline never even makes it to the US media:

*ISIS Leader Found Beheaded*. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-police-official-beheaded-Syria-monitor.html



> _A top figure in Islamic State's self-declared police force which carries out beheadings has himself been found decapitated in eastern Syria...His mutilated body showed signs of torture, and pinned to his head was a note stating: 'This is evil, you Sheikh'._



This reminds me of _La Terraza_. These were the anti-Pablo Escobar group of assassins that in order to combat Escobar, hired by _Los Pepes_ (with some backing by the Columbian government and CIA) were committing horrifying acts of torture against people associated with Escobar. Some of these just heinous. People with their teeth all pulled, electrocuted, sliced into bits, Columbia neckties, then the body displayed in a very public area with a note saying this person was a friend of Escobar.

Which makes me wonder about something else, if the western media didn't cover these executions at all, what would it change? I mean, more people are killed every day in car crashes than by ISIS. So, if we didn't report it, would ISIS stop doing them, or do less? I gather not. But what about to foreign diplomats? Sort of like the "stop feeding the trolls" activity on the internet? Hence, they do it for shock value and to get attention. But what if we didn't give them the time of day? Didn't cover it at all? Would it cause them to be more bold? Do more risky things, and likely easier to get caught or killed? 

The flip side to that is that I also wonder if people are getting desensitized to these beheadings, which is why the pilot was burned alive, as insane as that may sound? The first couple a few years ago, like Daniel Pearl, were shocking and sickening to people. Do people now see the headline on the news and go "Oh, another beheading...What's the weather forecast?" If we're not at that point now, we seem to be going that direction. Having said that, I watched an edited version of one of the beheadings (couldn't watch the actual cutting), and glanced at the burning video. Couldn't watch it. 

Next, I wonder when they are going to run out of hostages? I can't imagine any journalists or humanitarian workers left who will get close to the area? Also, from what I can gather ISIS also has to be running low on ammunition and armament. And with Jordan now bombing the bejezus out of them, with not much concern on collateral damage, ISIS resources have to be running somewhat low.


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## choc0thrax (Feb 7, 2015)

snowleopard @ Sat Feb 07 said:


> The flip side to that is that I also wonder if people are getting desensitized to these beheadings



Here in Canada we sure are! http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/ ... -1.2554175


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## Michael K. Bain (Feb 7, 2015)

snowleopard @ Sat Feb 07 said:


> Next, I wonder when they are going to run out of hostages? I can't imagine any journalists or humanitarian workers left who will get close to the area?



Many missionaries will continue to go to those areas.


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## Diffusor (Feb 8, 2015)

NYC Composer @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> "As for blaming Bush - of course it's Bush's fault. What isn't Bush's fault?"
> 
> Specific fault for ISIS aside-really, Jeffrey? You think the liberals have been piling on poor George? Going into Iraq for absolutely no good reason, with the hundreds of thousands dead and millions displaced-you don't think that's a good reason to pile on poor George? How about the mismanagement of that ridiculous war, the loss of standing in the world vis a vis moral high ground, the horrible corporate brown bagging that went on? How about the cost to the nation and to veterans, fighting a truly despicable, unnecessary war? Too much blame for G.W.?
> 
> ...



You realize a majority of Democrats also voted to go into Iraq?


Complete lack of recognition of the housing bubble? Not true at all. Bush, and many other Republicans such as McCain, actually warned everyone about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and actually tried to fix the problem and have better regulatory oversight. It was the Democrats who resisted and blocked reform. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/busin ... e-mae.html
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/29/v ... c-in-2004/ 
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123137220550562585



> Because of this, the Bush administration warned in the budget it issued in April 2001 that Fannie and Freddie were too large and overleveraged. Their failure "could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting federally insured entities and economic activity" well beyond housing.
> 
> Mr. Bush wanted to limit systemic risk by raising the GSEs' capital requirements, compelling preapproval of new activities, and limiting the size of their portfolios. Why should government regulate banks, credit unions and savings and loans, but not GSEs? Mr. Bush wanted the GSEs to be treated just like their private-sector competitors.
> 
> But the GSEs fought back. They didn't want to see the Bush reforms enacted, because that would level the playing field for their competitors. Congress finally did pass the Bush reforms, but in 2008, after Fannie and Freddie collapsed.




It was the the Democrats that were asleep at the wheel on the housing bubble, as perfectly illustrated by this video (kind of ironic seeing Republicans calling for more regulation and Democrats opposing it).


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## Soundhound (Feb 8, 2015)

Saying that the Republicans are utterly worthless and indeed dangerous (which I do wholeheartedly) doesn't mean I'm a fan of the Democrats. Far from it. I guess I would support a third party if it were truly progressive and had a shot at making inroads. But the last time a third party candidate made noise, we got W. We can't afford another. Both parties are at the beck and call of lobbyists, but it is the Republicans who have done the terrible damage to this country since Reagan's infantile, anti-intellectual, regressive debasement of the political dialogue. Rampant deregulation, regressive taxes, ignoring the infrastructure and putting radical ideologues (Scalia, Thomas, Alito) on the supreme court. Not to mention two completely unnecessary, economically crippling wars. The Republican Party has devolved into a truly dangerous, radical force.


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## NYC Composer (Feb 8, 2015)

All God's chillun got links.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/busin ... d=all&_r=0


Yes, Democrats voted for funding the Iraq war, after the Bush administration shamelessly put Colin Powell's credibility on the line, as someone Dems would trust, to parrot a bunch of damnable lies that fit a narrative they were selling.

Dems have plenty of culpability in the financial meltdown too, what with Clinton rescinding Glass-Steagal- but 8 years of weak financial regulation of banks/broerage houses and insurance companies on the Bush watch did us in more than Fannie and Freddie's loose restrictions.


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## chimuelo (Feb 8, 2015)

I believe we are seeing less Sheep than ever before.
Excellent. :mrgreen: 

As far as a 3rd Party read how well the State Of Nevada takes care of citizens.

Far from perfect as it rewards those who actually work first, by taking Billions from Corporations that enjoy the Tax Free Zones under the condition they pay for ALL Public Services.
Even still the Public Schools are still dumbed down really bad, but Charter Schools and Private Schools are very abundant here if you really care about your kids education.

Unions are Gung Ho here, right along side of right to work folks.
They get the low paying contracts, Unions get the best, the way it should be.
Go Hard, or Go Home is what they say there.

Geographically perfect too, if you want a free ride California is right next door and I hear the middle class pays dearly to help keep the Liberal Party strong there.

Other than CA, NY and Chicago/Detroit are cold and too far away.
California is the best State to be a bum.

And I really like seeing Jordan taking it to ISIL/ISO/ISIS/Manned Caused Contingencies, etc.

Bloodthirsty GOP Shepard's still can't see the genius of letting others lead. They have had decades of experience killing folks.
Time to let others waste some bad guys, and use money saved to redistribute amongst wealthy white Liberals, China's interest payments, and 31 million people who are still uninsured. We actually have to import people to insure now, and give them free stuff for voting, etc.

King Abdullah ROCKS.
God Is Great..... or something like that.


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