# True Legato Scripts



## tiago (Nov 21, 2017)

Hi folks!
I've recently been talking to a couple of friends of mine about recording a solo vocal library with true legato (like in Altus, Shevannai, etc...).
As such, I was wondering if there are some Kontakt scripts available out there that we can use and learn from in order to avoid starting from scratch (which I imagine would be really hard to do...).
I'm really thankful for any information and help you can provide on this.
Cheers!


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## Maxime Luft (Nov 21, 2017)

Hello Tiago,

after having designed lots of bespoke sample libraries I recently made this public one:
https://www.organic-samples.com/organic-voices-vol-1-solo-opera

There are very few resources on the internet on how to make these scripts and I can only recommend you take a look at @d.healey 's kontakt scripting lesson no. 3, where he demonstrates how it works:

http://xtant-audio.com/product/kontakt-scripting-lesson-3/

Concerning solo vocals, let me tell you that a kind of legato + sustain crossfading will certainly not work as there is so much detail in such instruments that it will be inevitable to hear that, no matter how smooth your scripting will be.

My advice would be to therefore record those legatos with a long sustain after each interval. This won't be easy, especially for the singer. So just make sure that the one who's going to work with you is motivated. 
This is by the way my first criterium concerning collaborations in the realm of sampling.

Organic Voices Vol. 2 and 3 are by the way currently being finished... I'm just procrastinating a bit here on VI-C

Best wishes for your project,
Maxime


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## P.N. (Nov 21, 2017)

Hi.
The script itself is not a big issue.
The tricky part, and that's almost an art in itself, is fine tuning it.
That's quite some work there (and a good pair of ears).

Cheers.


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## Maxime Luft (Nov 21, 2017)

P.N. said:


> The tricky part, and that's almost an art in itself, is fine tuning it.


Well I do not know why this process should be distinguished from the other steps required to make a usable legato library. I mean you have to:

1. Record your samples
2. Edit your sample-set (noise-reduction / EQ)
3. Chop each sample
4. Define your sample-starts for each sustain / legato / release sample - that's also an art in itself
5. Fine-tune each sample - ok there is some work here but like for any other step, isn't it?
6. Copy-paste all these sample-start and fine-tuning values to the other microphone positions, if there are any
6. Design the GUI according to your program
7. Test the library and fix what needs to be fixed

The programming part just needs to be done at some point and tweaked throughout the whole process.
At least that's my experience.


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## P.N. (Nov 21, 2017)

Well, i called it the "tricky part", because that's where libraries tend to fail, or don't live up to the expectation.

Someone goes through all the trouble to record, clean, edit, design the GUI, but in the process, neglected to ensure the legato actually possesses useful musical qualities and behaves as the original instrument would. Maybe there wasn't enough researching on the instrument (it's strenghts and weaknessess) and the programming was not done with a "musical mindset", but with a "numerical mindset".

Some of this could also be attributed to the pre-production stage, but...

In my opinion, the legato fine tuning is the most important step. There are poorly recorded/edited libraries out there (some poorly recorded by design, others, maybe not...) but, when the legato works, the library works.

Again, just my opinion. 

Cheers.


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## d.healey (Nov 21, 2017)

For the smoothest, most easily tweakable legato crossfades use flexible envelopes rather than scripting - scripting is still required to enable the correct groups and do other parts of the legato transition.


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## tiago (Nov 22, 2017)

Maxime Luft said:


> Hello Tiago,
> 
> after having designed lots of bespoke sample libraries I recently made this public one:
> https://www.organic-samples.com/organic-voices-vol-1-solo-opera
> ...



Thanks a lot for the links and info, Maxime! Really appreciated!


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## tiago (Nov 22, 2017)

P.N. said:


> Hi.
> The script itself is not a big issue.
> The tricky part, and that's almost an art in itself, is fine tuning it.
> That's quite some work there (and a good pair of ears).
> ...



I understand this, but, since the library really depends on the scripting, it is always cool for a begginer to have a starting point to rely one, so that things don't get too complicated further on...


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## tiago (Nov 22, 2017)

Maxime Luft said:


> Well I do not know why this process should be distinguished from the other steps required to make a usable legato library. I mean you have to:
> 
> 1. Record your samples
> 2. Edit your sample-set (noise-reduction / EQ)
> ...



That sounds like a lot of work, but still achievable with hard work and dedication. I will try to take care of every single one of those points with caution.


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## tiago (Nov 22, 2017)

d.healey said:


> For the smoothest, most easily tweakable legato crossfades use flexible envelopes rather than scripting - scripting is still required to enable the correct groups and do other parts of the legato transition.



Thanks for the info, David! If I may ask, did you use Big Bob's legato script in your own true legato technique? If so, is it hard to adapt this script into true legato, or would you recommend something else?


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## d.healey (Nov 22, 2017)

tiago said:


> Thanks for the info, David! If I may ask, did you use Big Bob's legato script in your own true legato technique? If so, is it hard to adapt this script into true legato, or would you recommend something else?


I assume you're talking about SIPS or WIPS? Those scripts create a synthetic legato which is much harder to script than true legato but has almost nothing in common with it. So nope is the short answer. 
Scripting true legato is not difficult, I'm not sure why people think it is, it's just a few commands to switch groups and do a crossfade when two notes are held. There is a little more complexity with larger instruments with multiple articulations and you have to watch for hanging notes but the basic true legato script is maybe 10 lines of code.


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## magneto538 (Nov 23, 2017)

+1 for David. The complexity about true legato is not about true legato at all - it's more about allowing the correct groups, being able to support a flexible (aka, not necessarily consistent) groups structure, handling different legato types (e.g. some articulations might have true legato, while other might have simple legato), fine-tune everything. Using envelopes instead of fade ins-outs is definitely the way to go, not only because you are able to fine-tune everything using curves and group-wise settings, but also because you can trigger a complete legato transition with a simple note_off() command.


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## tiago (Nov 23, 2017)

d.healey said:


> I assume you're talking about SIPS or WIPS? Those scripts create a synthetic legato which is much harder to script than true legato but has almost nothing in common with it. So nope is the short answer.
> Scripting true legato is not difficult, I'm not sure why people think it is, it's just a few commands to switch groups and do a crossfade when two notes are held. There is a little more complexity with larger instruments with multiple articulations and you have to watch for hanging notes but the basic true legato script is maybe 10 lines of code.



Yeah, that does make sense... I think that "true" legato just sounds like it is more complicated cause it is supposed to create something more realistic, therefore making people think the opposite (as I did...). Thanks for the info!


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## tiago (Nov 23, 2017)

magneto538 said:


> +1 for David. The complexity about true legato is not about true legato at all - it's more about allowing the correct groups, being able to support a flexible (aka, not necessarily consistent) groups structure, handling different legato types (e.g. some articulations might have true legato, while other might have simple legato), fine-tune everything. Using envelopes instead of fade ins-outs is definitely the way to go, not only because you are able to fine-tune everything using curves and group-wise settings, but also because you can trigger a complete legato transition with a simple note_off() command.



Thanks for the comment and for sharing this knowledge, magneto!


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## Tod (Nov 26, 2017)

Back many years ago, when Kontakt 2 first came out, some friends and I put an orchestra library together and we included true legato for the violins. I attempted to write a script for this, and it worked, but was restricted to a few BPM either side of what it was recorded at.

I've never worked with "true legato" since and I'm curious. I'm sure there are many things since K2, but how are the different BPMs dealt with today? Can multiple speeds of true legato be used with with one recorded sample, or does it take several recorded legato samples at different speeds?

This might be a dumb question, but I had to ask.


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## trueSound86 (May 21, 2019)

d.healey said:


> For the smoothest, most easily tweakable legato crossfades use flexible envelopes rather than scripting - scripting is still required to enable the correct groups and do other parts of the legato transition.


hi there. .iam new here but ive been searching for this topic specifically 
i know this post is a while back but 
reading the posts on tthis how would 
wright the script from sctrach so the 
legato groups woud play when playing 
legato using the flexible env ?
if you would like to share?


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## Dave Hilowitz (Jun 26, 2021)

For what it’s worth, I’ve made a video answering this question for Decent Sampler:


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