# VSL protection plan



## al_net77 (Oct 17, 2018)

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Product_Overview/Vienna_Protection_Plan


As first approach I think to like this option...


Thougths?


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## HBen (Oct 17, 2018)

I thought this service should be provided as a FREE one to its customers. But, it looks like VSL is much more greedy and they are asking for 70 euros for this, and it is valid for only 2 years?!


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 17, 2018)

I like that they are doing something. $50 a year. This is a no brainer I guess for my one dongle with $5000 worth of samples licensed on it. An insurance policy. Still a bit annoying that we have to pay them extra to protect them from piracy. It is not cost effective at all for the other couple of dongles I use just for vep.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 17, 2018)

Pretty disheartening to see that they seem to have confused their obligation to provide a more reliable security solution that doesn't backfire against the honest customer with an opportunity to cash in on a neglect on their own part.


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## rrichard63 (Oct 17, 2018)

HBen said:


> ... it is valid for only 2 years?!


I think it also expires if you have to use it. In other words, it only covers one occurrence of a lost or damaged key.


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 17, 2018)

They ought to show some good Will and offer something extra with it


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## al_net77 (Oct 17, 2018)

rrichard63 said:


> I think it also expires if you have to use it. In other words, it only covers one occurrence of a lost or damaged key.



Yes: https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Product_Overview/Vienna_Protection_Plan#!Frequently_asked


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## al_net77 (Oct 17, 2018)

"All VSL licenses a ViennaKey is holding at the time of reporting it as lost, stolen or broken are covered by the Vienna Protection Plan, as long as an active Vienna Protection Plan license is stored on the same key"

So it is a license to put on "protected" key.


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## Michael Antrum (Oct 17, 2018)

It is, however, a monumental improvement on what the situation was previously.

Let's put it into perspective. 

- If you buy a library from VSL there is a 30 day return window for a refund.
- If you want to sell a previously purchased library - for a small fee you can.
- There is now a way of 'insuring' your dongle for loss/theft/breakage - albeit for a fee.

Put's VSL right up there as one fo the more customer friendly developers in my book. Could it be better ? - Well, yes - it could be free. But overall, I think they have answered their critics (of which I was one) pretty convincingly, and I think they are to be congratulated.


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## al_net77 (Oct 17, 2018)

Absolutely, it could be free. But for 35€/year is far less expensive than any insurance - if you find a company that can provide such insurance! And is not linked to license value.


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## Shredoverdrive (Oct 17, 2018)

It could be better (free for instance) but it's a great leap forward. But the thing I don't understand is this : you pay 70€ to insure the licences on one vienna key but you store this insurance on another vienna key? What if this second vienna key breaks?
Or I am mistaken?
Or is the trick to have two vienna keys insuring each other? ^^ (140€ for two years)?


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## al_net77 (Oct 17, 2018)

Shredoverdrive said:


> It could be better (free for instance) but it's a great leap forward. But the thing I don't understand is this : you pay 70€ to insure the licences on one vienna key but you store this insurance on another vienna key? What if this second vienna key breaks?
> Or I am mistaken?



The protection license need to be on the protected key. I'm guessing, but I think this is the only way for VSL to get a list of what you do have on a key, via the eLicenser software (DB mantenaince?)


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## Shredoverdrive (Oct 17, 2018)

al_net77 said:


> The protection license need to be on the protected key. I'm guessing, but I think this is the only way for VSL to get a list of what you do have on a key, via the eLicenser software (DB mantenaince?)


Ah. Makes sense.


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## Ben (Oct 17, 2018)

Not to forget: For each license they have to pay a fee to Steinberg. So it is understandable.
I think the best solution would be if you could use Steinbergs recovery center for all eLicenser products. Maybe one day...


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## Ben (Oct 17, 2018)

Another thing to consider: You do not need to buy an eLicenser every 2 years if you have the care plan. In this case that lowers the cost from 70€ to ~50€.


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 17, 2018)

That's a good point about not having to rebuy dongles. Still kind of a lot. Honestly, if you can go 6 years or so without losing the dongle...then you are better off just avoiding the "insurance". The fact that they require us to buy insurance is still troubling to me. Mind you I bought all their stuff anyway and I'm now invested and that's that...but still...its highly troubling to me their attitude. This solution is just BARELY something for us to consider...pay more money in hundreds of dollars over time because they are paranoid about software piracy from other people..not me. Sorry VSL, you still are not favored in my book.

Nonetheless I do have $5000 worth of VSL libraries on a single dongle and I may end up having to insure it to be safe...I'm still not sure.

Does anyone know if this covers it in the case the dongle is dropped in the pool...in other words, not a technical failure but an actual user-fault damage?


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## Ben (Oct 17, 2018)

FAQ point E: "If the ViennaKey is protected by the Vienna Protection Plan, you can chose not to send in the defective ViennaKey and to receive permanent replacement licenses right away, free of charge."

There are no reasons listed, so I assume that even that is covered.
70€ is not that much if you consider how much the licenses are worth. I don't think that it will even cover the support and license replacement cost for VSL in most cases. It is not perfect but a big improvement imo.


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 17, 2018)

The fact that their license is so expensive to begin with is exactly why we should not have to pay more for this ridiculousness. 

Sorry, they have not gained any credibility in my book. Mind you it doesn't matter, they already got as much money from me as they are probably going to get...so there is that, but word of mouth counts for something and at this point..they are still failing in this dept in my view. And despite the fact that I think they are lame and will tell everyone I know that I think they are lame and warn them about their narcissism, I still might buy the insurance, because I have $5000 invested onto a fragile dongle that could go POOF at any time and now that I have the option to may more for insurance, I expect to get absolutely zero sympathy from them if and when that ever happens.


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## muk (Oct 17, 2018)

5. "Your lost/broken/stolen ViennaKey will be disabled and cannot be used anymore."

VSL has the option to disable lost/broken/stolen keys. Why don't they just do that when necessary, instead of forcing us to buy an insurance biannually? If Steinberg charges VSL for that they could simply pass these costs on to the customer.

This is not a solution in my opinion. They didn't solve the problem, they simply created another stream of revenue out of it. Very disappointing move in my books, and not one that makes me want to invest any further in VSL products.


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## Cartoon (Oct 17, 2018)

Omg this vi control community can complain about everything....

We all know composing is expensive! Not just for us "customers" who buys the stuff we need from the sampling companies.

It's also reeeeeeally expensive for the companies to create high end products! So for me it's understandable That they want some money in return! 

Is it so hard to be happy?


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## Phillip Dixon (Oct 17, 2018)

OMG.... reeeeeally.
Iam suprised you did'ent throw in 
A couple of air kisses..


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## Michael Antrum (Oct 17, 2018)

Phillip Dixon said:


> OMG.... reeeeeally.
> Iam suprised you did'ent throw in
> A couple of air kisses..



Well, since it's you....


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## S4410 (Oct 17, 2018)

Well, that's a clever way of earning €35 each year from their customers, like a small subscription fee. I don't know what's worse: this or Spitfire Audio's not allowing me to resell their libraries.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 17, 2018)

I love VSL as a company, and I like every person I've met who works there - including the people who work with them here in the US. They're pioneers, they have some great libraries and even greater software, I'm a fan.

But this... oy.

I've also never had an issue with PACE's copy protection (and Allen Cronce, who runs the company, is hardly a monster). But I snarled at their Zero Downtime insurance, and I have to say the same about this.

Whether it's worth it is absolutely not the issue. It's that customers should be helped to get up and running as quickly as possible, just because it's good customer service. Copy protection is a necessary evil that customers put up with; it shouldn't be something you have to insure.

Now, I don't work in tech support, and maybe I'm missing how deluged companies are with copy protection issues. I also don't know whether companies have to pay for every individual license on their dongles, etc.

But even so, the time to charge for that is when the accident happens. It's too small an amount of money to warrant insurance.


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## Lee Blaske (Oct 17, 2018)

Another yearly fee. Not excited about that. If VSL absolutely must have a dongle, I'd rather VSL do their licenses through iLok, and just pay one company. And, this is on top of the additional money we're paying to have our VSL content ported to "Synchron" (I fear that support for the Vienna Instruments versions will be dropped at some point).

IMO, companies like Spitfire and 8Dio are vastly superior in the way they handle copy protection.


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## Saxer (Oct 17, 2018)

I purchased immediately. It's even cheaper than the iLok zero downtime insurance. Not really fun to pay though... could have a couple of beers instead... but to be honest: I get my beer anyway.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 18, 2018)

Saxer said:


> I purchased immediately. It's even cheaper than the iLok zero downtime insurance. Not really fun to pay though... could have a couple of beers instead... but to be honest: I get my beer anyway.



at a buck-sixty nine per month, what kind o' beer are you drinkin'?


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## good (Oct 18, 2018)

Ben said:


> It is not perfect but a big improvement imo.



Yes, this is certainly a big improvement, however, this plan is fundamentally based on issue with their methods of protection. I think they should switch to iLok protection.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 18, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> I fear that support for the Vienna Instruments versions will be dropped at some point.



I'm more concerned with that as the majority of my VSL libraries are VI Pro.

I bought my VSL libraries 2nd hand or on sale.

They are still some of my favorite sounds.

Great investment and value for me.

I'm ok with the plan.


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## ludini (Oct 18, 2018)

That's a nice dongle you got there. It'd be a shame if something... happend to it.


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## Saxer (Oct 18, 2018)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> at a buck-sixty nine per month, what kind o' beer are you drinkin'?


Free beer. I'm a musician.


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## pmountford (Oct 18, 2018)

I'm in agreement with @NickBatzdorf here. I have the upmost respect for VSL and the many products I have purchased from them but ultimately I would have thought the time to be charged is when the license(s) become unusable. Do we have any stats of how likely a fault with eLicensor/ViennaKey is?


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## amadeus1 (Oct 18, 2018)

My question is, what happens if your dongle stops working and you don't have insurance? For the past 6 years I haven't had any problems losing, breaking, or having the key stolen, but what if it had been? Wouldn't VSL have allowed me to recover my licenses? So are they saying that if you don't buy the insurance and something happens to your dongle you lose your licenses for good? If your ilok quits working you can still recover your licenses without the insurance, it just takes longer than if you did have ilok insurance. I would like to know what the process for recovering your licenses would be if your key was lost, broken, or stolen without the insurance.


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## SoNowWhat? (Oct 18, 2018)

amadeus1 said:


> My question is, what happens if your dongle stops working and you don't have insurance? For the past 6 years I haven't had any problems losing, breaking, or having the key stolen, but what if it had been? Wouldn't VSL have allowed me to recover my licenses? So are they saying that if you don't buy the insurance and something happens to your dongle you lose your licenses for good? If your ilok quits working you can still recover your licenses without the insurance, it just takes longer than if you did have ilok insurance. I would like to know what the process for recovering your licenses would be if your key was lost, broken, or stolen without the insurance.


Unless something has changed in that regard, you will be able to recover your licenses for a fee (that is proportional to the number of licenses you own). I have no idea now long that process takes without “insurance”.
I haven’t read the entire new “insurance” agreement (maybe that’s changed too) but I’m not likely to as I won’t be purchasing VSL even with the new arrangement. That’s just me though.


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## Phillip Dixon (Oct 18, 2018)

In the vsl statement it says your lost or stolen license will be disabled...
In the last debate about this.they said this was not possible.... so why do we need 
Insurance......


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## SoNowWhat? (Oct 18, 2018)

Phillip Dixon said:


> In the vsl statement it says your lost or stolen license will be disabled...
> In the last debate about this.they said this was not possible.... so why do we need
> Insurance......


Good question. Someone asked this earlier in the thread.


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## amadeus1 (Oct 18, 2018)

I guess we need to know how much it would cost, and how long it would take, to recover our licenses without insurance before we can make an informed choice on whether to purchase the insurance?


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 18, 2018)

Up until now their policy has been if you lose your dongle through any means, you lost your license but as a courtesy they will sell you all new licenses of what you had before for 50% discount.

If the dongle stops working due to malfunction then for a fee that is as I recall around $50 per license they will accept your dongle in the mail and if they determine it is a malfunction and that your licenses were in fact on that dongle, then for the fees you can get your licenses back. In my case that would amount to hundreds of dollars. If you buy a new dongle every two years the dongle warranty covers you against this malfunction and you don’t have to pay a fee but you do have to wait for them to inspect the dongle.

If you damage the dongle you get no love you might as well have lost it, Including in a fire.

Now we have the option to buy insurance. The first question is whether the previous policies about how they handle loss or malfunction are still in effect. They better be since we purchased stuff under that agreement. If so then we have to consider how many years of insurance will work out to be more expensive then waiting until it happens. If you don’t care about zero downtime, then the two year dongle repurchase strategy is more affordable, but the insurance also covers loss which would be very expensive if it happened.

Bottom line is the insurance is definitely a smart move for pros needing zero downtime. It’s probably a good idea for non pros if you have a fully loaded up dongle full of licenses that would take thousands of dollars to rebuy at the discount.

In my view vsl is finding a way to profit from a crisis that was created for their users by they themselves. It’s very dissapointing to say the least but I admit I will probably get it because I lose small things like that easily. The whole situation is frankly absurd.

Love my vsl library though


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## Dear Villain (Oct 18, 2018)

This new insurance seems like the easiest solution for VSL to provide, in terms of requiring little/no research and development on their part. Basically, they probably crunched the numbers, looking at the historical records of past lost licenses/damaged dongles, etc., then worked out the cost to them, added a healthy profit, and presented "insurance." No need for them to employ engineers to create a technical solution, no need to partner up with other companies (iLok, etc.) beyond the current arrangements they have, and best of all, a new consistent revenue stream, as opposed to simply a solution for which they would not profit.

Viewing the 50/50 opinions on whether or not people like this solution is already a victory for them. I'm sure that even if this insurance was met with 100% disapproval, VSL would firmly stand behind it, simply because they are masters of not bowing to pressure from their customer base (see Synchron Strings) and finding opportunities to profit from what might be considered "mistakes" (see dongles, Synchronized libraries). At this point, complaining is fine simply to see where everybody stands on it, but to expect them to change a newly established policy/insurance offering isn't going to happen. Sadly, it isn't going to happen for years to come, if ever...once you've made a new insurance plan like this available, and once even a handful of customers have purchased it, you're bound to this. To change things yet again would place existing customers that went along with the insurance at harm, and would further make VSL look like they're grasping at air to find a solution. Sadly, this insurance is THE solution, so we either like it or learn to live with it.

Dave


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 18, 2018)

A lost dongle has never been a cost to them. It’s only their perception that a high percentage of lost dongles must actually be piracy. Piracy is the only cost to them and frankly I have never heard of anyone using pirated vsl libraries. That is not a real loss that is a perception about potential loss. And they charge their devote legitimate users a handsome price to sleep at night knowing there is zero possibility for anyone to get away with piracy


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## amadeus1 (Oct 18, 2018)

Just got the VSL protection plan, after all, ilok has their protection plan. I've got too much invested (as you can probably surmise by the scroll bar on the bottom right) to be going through hassles. Attached a screenshot:


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## Ben (Oct 18, 2018)

amadeus1 said:


> Just got the VSL protection plan, after all, ilok has their protection plan. I've got too much invested (as you can probably surmise by the scroll bar on the bottom right) to be going through hassles. Attached a screenshot:


Yesterday I looked at all the bills and calculated how much money I spent: Oh boy, was I shocked...


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## amadeus1 (Oct 18, 2018)

I'm afraid to calculate that total


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## al_net77 (Oct 18, 2018)

Don' do it. Resist.


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## antcarrier (Oct 18, 2018)

I bought it. Sure, it's annoying to have to pay a biannual fee, but it's way better than what they had before.


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## Phillip Dixon (Oct 18, 2018)

You can dress it up anyway you like
Its still a nice little earner for vsl


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## Cartoon (Oct 18, 2018)

Phillip Dixon said:


> Just read the details at vsl
> What a bloody liberty...
> 70 quid( and that will rise) every 2 years plus you have to buy
> Another bloody dongle ..to store emergency
> ...





Phillip Dixon said:


> You can dress it up anyway you like
> Its still a nice little earner for vsl


of course! But maybe it also means soon new interesting products


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## dbudde (Oct 18, 2018)

This policy seems like a stop gap until the new elicenser mechanism is finished. 

We know that Steinberg is working on a new elicenser to replace the existing one. According to the developers of Dorico, it will be account based rather than dongle based. I assume this means for products that rely on the USB key as well as the soft-elicenser products (but that could be an incorrect assumption).

We also know that VSL doesn’t require a new key with the new policy. Maybe this is because Steinberg is not going to be making keys anymore once the new elicenser is available. This is pure conjecture on my part. But it makes sense given the above.

So I plan to wait and see how this all plays out.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 18, 2018)

amadeus1 said:


> Just got the VSL protection plan, after all, ilok has their protection plan. I've got too much invested (as you can probably surmise by the scroll bar on the bottom right) to be going through hassles. Attached a screenshot:



i'm sure i don't have NEARLY as much as you, but i just bought as well.


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## SoNowWhat? (Oct 18, 2018)

Dear Villain said:


> This new insurance seems like the easiest solution for VSL to provide, in terms of requiring little/no research and development on their part. Basically, they probably crunched the numbers, looking at the historical records of past lost licenses/damaged dongles, etc., then worked out the cost to them, added a healthy profit, and presented "insurance." No need for them to employ engineers to create a technical solution, no need to partner up with other companies (iLok, etc.) beyond the current arrangements they have, and best of all, a new consistent revenue stream, as opposed to simply a solution for which they would not profit.
> 
> Viewing the 50/50 opinions on whether or not people like this solution is already a victory for them. I'm sure that even if this insurance was met with 100% disapproval, VSL would firmly stand behind it, simply because they are masters of not bowing to pressure from their customer base (see Synchron Strings) and finding opportunities to profit from what might be considered "mistakes" (see dongles, Synchronized libraries). At this point, complaining is fine simply to see where everybody stands on it, but to expect them to change a newly established policy/insurance offering isn't going to happen. Sadly, it isn't going to happen for years to come, if ever...once you've made a new insurance plan like this available, and once even a handful of customers have purchased it, you're bound to this. To change things yet again would place existing customers that went along with the insurance at harm, and would further make VSL look like they're grasping at air to find a solution. Sadly, this insurance is THE solution, so we either like it or learn to live with it.
> 
> Dave


Pretty much sums it up as I see it too. I will have no problems living with this.


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## Wunderhorn (Oct 18, 2018)

It feels like they want to make their own copy protection the user's problem and as a simple solution, make them pay for it. First, we have to deal with a dongle which is relatively rare in the industry, but well ok, but now _we_ should pay a _subscription_ on top of that? How does that make you feel when you legally buy your software?
If whatever copy protection a company thinks it needs cannot be subsidized by the software sold, there is obviously something wrong in the calculations. Raising eyebrows or worse with their customer base is another calculation that can go awfully wrong.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 18, 2018)

Software licensing - maintenance, subscriptions, perpetual, term, dongle, flexlm, none - seems to be going through a major upheaval.

My 3D CAD tools typically have a yearly maintenance 20% of the original cost.

It's a deductible business expense.

So, the break on my taxable net alone (initial cost and 'insurance'), makes this justifiable.


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## hdsmile (Oct 18, 2018)

If you buy a new dongle for two years like me ( I bought my in february this year), then you don't need to purchase the protection plan as these circumstances would serve no purpose and nevertheless would a bit cheaper when you would buy the new dongle for 2 years, surely it all depends on how much you will pay for new one


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 18, 2018)

hdsmile said:


> If you buy a new dongle for two years like me ( I bought my in february this year), then you don't need to purchase the protection plan as these circumstances would serve no purpose and nevertheless would a bit cheaper when you would buy the new dongle for 2 years, surely it all depends on how much you will pay for new one



i bought a new dongle a few months ago.

it's so pretty.


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## DocMidi657 (Oct 18, 2018)

Can someone answer this for me..when VSL sells a license to use a sample library does the license have an expressed expiration date? If no then how can VSL charge you again a fee for this lifetime license that you already paid for simply because the USB dongle malfunctions and a fee per library? Just because the dongle stops working how does that invalidate the right to use the library without paying another fee to have it reinstated? This is just awful.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 18, 2018)

DocMidi657 said:


> Can someone answer this for me..when VSL sells a license to use a sample library does the license have an expressed expiration date? If no then how can VSL charge you again a fee for this lifetime license that you already paid for simply because the USB dongle malfunctions and a fee per library? Just because the dongle stops working how does that invalidate the right to use the library without paying another fee to have it reinstated? This is just awful.



i don't think they expire.

but according to some here, they get stale.


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## hdsmile (Oct 18, 2018)

DocMidi657 said:


> Can someone answer this for me..when VSL sells a license to use a sample library does the license have an expressed expiration date? This is just awful.



it's inexplicable -just the business:(


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 18, 2018)

the direction software companies are going with their licensing, 

these will be the good old days.

enjoy then while you can.

to a grandchild in the future,

"I remember when you could insure your library purchases that you OWNED for less than 2 bucks a month.

Now, get off my Cloud."


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## dzilizzi (Oct 18, 2018)

It is not currently worth it for me. But I only have SE 1 bundle and Smart Orchestra. But if you own the whole VSL setup, I would definitely buy it. Especially if you are mobile or use your key on multiple computers. If it sits on your studio computer and never moves, it's a toss up as to whether it is worth getting. 

I went through this with my ilok. The point at which I had a couple thousand dollars worth of products on it? I started paying for the insurance. I'm also a hobbyist. If this was my business? Yeah, I would pay in a heartbeat. Instant re-access might be the difference between getting a job done and breaking a contract. 

Things to think about. It would be nice if they were iLok, but they aren't and I have no idea whether it would be worth it to them to switch.


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## Saxer (Oct 19, 2018)

I have three iLicenser dongles for VSL instruments and software and until now I spread the licenses to different dongles to minimize the risc of total failure. With the protection plan I put all of them together on one protected dongle.


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## Gerbil (Oct 19, 2018)

Had no idea about any of this. I'm very glad I only own a handful of their cheaper products. I haven't used most of them in a long time so it would just be a case of dealing with the synchron piano. 

There is no way I'll be investing in any more of their products (ok...a top notch synchron steinway might do it, but that's it).


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## jaketanner (Oct 19, 2018)

I do not own VSL, however, I am familiar with the dongle protection schemes. First off, these libraries are seldom, if ever moved from studio to studio like audio plugins are, that someone would steal the dongle. I don't know of another software developer of libraries that uses this method, but I am glad that I did not buy into this when I wanted to, because this doesn't seem right. I mean, who steals orchestral libraries? If they're so worried, then they need to adopt a limited install policy similar to WAVES plugins...authorize them online if you need to move them, and unauthorized them from your computer temporarily...This $70 seems ridiculous. Also, why not just charge for 1 year at a time? Mean, they could have made it $200 and said "oh well, it's covered for 5 years"....Not buying into this protection policy. I feel bad for those that have to...especially since VSL forces you to get the dongle. Just my two cents, having dealt with other dongle issues...


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## shnootre (Oct 19, 2018)

Well, the timing is good for me. I just did the math and I have just over $5K of VSL libraries on that little dongle. And - I have a new work setup, where I am basically commuting between home and work offices WITH my Vienna Key EVERY DAY. I have sort have been a nervous wreck about what would happen when (not if) I lose that damn Vienna Key. I mean, I have a fancy little pouch for it, and it goes in a designated spot in my backpack each morning. But...I'm sure I'm like the only VSL user with ADD, and when the going gets nuts, I start losing sh$% all over the place. I always took offense at their forum responses that basically stated if you can't take care of your dongle, you aren't a responsible adult. 

I'll buy the damn insurance. It's strange that no such insurance or dongle is required for Spitfire, Orchestra Tools, Waves, Native Instruments, et al. (I just had to report my waves licenses lost, because I foolishly transferred them to...my Vienna Key! And that worked for a while until it didn't...)


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## babylonwaves (Oct 19, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> I do not own VSL, however, I am familiar with the dongle protection schemes. First off, these libraries are seldom, if ever moved from studio to studio like audio plugins are, that someone would steal the dongle. I don't know of another software developer of libraries that uses this method, but I am glad that I did not buy into this when I wanted to, because this doesn't seem right. I mean, who steals orchestral libraries? If they're so worried, then they need to adopt a limited install policy similar to WAVES plugins...authorize them online if you need to move them, and unauthorized them from your computer temporarily...This $70 seems ridiculous. Also, why not just charge for 1 year at a time? Mean, they could have made it $200 and said "oh well, it's covered for 5 years"....Not buying into this protection policy. I feel bad for those that have to...especially since VSL forces you to get the dongle. Just my two cents, having dealt with other dongle issues...



it's probably more about a broken dongle than a stolen one. but really, why do you bother writing above in the first place? you don't have any of their libraries and you're not planning "buying into this protection plan" (which is a wise move since you got nothing to protect). 

people here have asked for a protection plan for years. now, there is one. isn't that good news for those who asked? and for those who're afraid of a broken elicenser mid production, while being on a deadline? because when that happens, you don't think about $70. at least, i don't.


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## Michael Antrum (Oct 19, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> I do not own VSL, however, I am familiar with the dongle protection schemes. First off, these libraries are seldom, if ever moved from studio to studio like audio plugins are.....




Lots of people will use these libraries on the move, travelling, in hotels etc. One of the reasons I have never invested in VSL is because I travel so much, and the thought of losing a dongle that could cost thousands to replace simply doesn't bear thinking about. And it has happened to some poor souls...


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## dzilizzi (Oct 19, 2018)

Insurance is just a normal part of business. And though the chances of the elicenser getting damaged is small, it does happen. I was just lucky that when I had a USB device suddenly stop working, it was my Waves one. They will do a transfer back to the cloud for things like this at no cost, though you may need to update your WUP if it happens more than once. 

And? My hard drives die faster than my dongles, so I am not sure that a soft license is any better than a dongle one. (my original iLok was about 10 years old when I had to replace it - not because it stopped working, but because some of my licenses needed the iLok2)


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## rrichard63 (Oct 19, 2018)

babylonwaves said:


> ... people here have asked for a protection plan for years. ...


I'm not sure that this is accurate. There are other ways to address the issues VSL customers have been raising (iLok, network-based authorization, etc.). Insurance is one way, and not necessarily the best from the user's point of view.

That said, you can't please everyone all the time. I happen to like iLok for my situation -- or I should say dislike it less than some other schemes. Others might like Waves, which I think is a pain the tailbone (especially right now, with a mixture of V9 and V10 plugins). And so on. But I doubt that anyone prefers eLicenser, even though many people live with it because of the usefulness of Steinberg's and/or VSL's products.


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## babylonwaves (Oct 19, 2018)

rrichard63 said:


> I'm not sure that this is accurate. There are other ways to address the issues VSL customers have been raising (iLok, network-based authorization, etc.). Insurance is one way, and not necessarily the best from the user's point of view. That said, you can't please everyone all the time. I happen to like iLok for my situation --



what I wanted to express is that people were asking for a solution for years.

did you read through the details on their website? what VSL offers is pretty similar to what you get with the iLok ZDT (temp licenses you can immediately use, following by new and permanent ones later on).


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## rrichard63 (Oct 19, 2018)

babylonwaves said:


> what I wanted to express is that people were asking for a solution for years.
> 
> did you read through the details on their website? what VSL offers is pretty similar to what you get with the iLok ZDT (temp licenses you can immediately use, following by new and permanent ones later on).


Yes, with insurance they are comparable -- and the insurance premiums themselves are comparable The difference is the cost of recovering your licenses when they are not insured. VSL charges 50% of the nominal retail value. With a broken iLok, it costs considerable downtime but no money beyond that. With a lost or stolen iLok, the cost varies by publisher.


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## Cowtothesky (Oct 19, 2018)

To be honest, this just makes me not want to buy VSL products. They force you to use the dongle. Fine. They force you to pay for it. Fine. But if that system fails, it's on me? I can't simply prove that I am the owner and get a replacement download? ok.

I'm not complaining. I'm just making a consumer choice. There are too many other fantastic competitors out there that are willing to offer fair protection in case the unspeakable happens. I only have 7 or 8 VSL libraries, so this is just a choice for me moving forward. But, if you have thousands of dollars invested in VSL libraries, I can see where you almost have to buy this. The marketing strategy is odd though... It doesn't seem to promote future growth, but extracting more dollars from existing customers.


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## Phillip Dixon (Oct 19, 2018)

I wish someone could explain this to me
I thought if you lost .broke .had it stolen.
Or it went up in flames. The reason you had to pay again(pro rata) is because vsl
Assumes you are probably pulling a fast one
And they cant simply disable the key
Which would render it useless...but thats
Exactly what they say they will do now
If any of the above happen...my email was 
Hacked three times in the last 8 years...
And i have had 3 daws every time l have
Had to reach out to chris hein to redownload products and hes never even 
Broke into a sweat.. same with all my other
Developers


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 19, 2018)

It’s really simple. There is a perceived risk of lost revenue due to piracy. Vsl wants paying customers to cover their risk. Chris Hein is willing to accept that responsibility for that risk.

Vsl believes they can get away with this because they believe their product is the absolute best. And hey I bought it despite their greed, so maybe it is. 

The insurance is an improvement over what was there before but everyone just needs to acknowledge that as expensive as Vsl was already, it’s now even more expensive. I just bought $5000 worth of it and I reckon over the next ten years of use it will be an additional $500 for the insurance. So, figure roughly it’s adding 10% to the price, problem solved. But make no mistake, they want us to pay for that risk of doing business. Personally I think they are probably losing more then 10% in sales this way, but who really knows.


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## jaketanner (Oct 19, 2018)

babylonwaves said:


> it's probably more about a broken dongle than a stolen one. but really, why do you bother writing above in the first place? you don't have any of their libraries and you're not planning "buying into this protection plan" (which is a wise move since you got nothing to protect).
> 
> people here have asked for a protection plan for years. now, there is one. isn't that good news for those who asked? and for those who're afraid of a broken elicenser mid production, while being on a deadline? because when that happens, you don't think about $70. at least, i don't.



Just because I don’t VSL doesnt mean that I wasn’t considering them for a future purchase… So it does technically affect me in someway or at least my choices. No other company needs this level of protection for their library’s. I just see that it’s a bad policy, and on top of that, you HAVE to buy the key, instead of making it free. I mean if it’s required, why not just include it I the price somehow?


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## jaketanner (Oct 19, 2018)

Dewdman42 said:


> It’s really simple. There is a perceived risk of lost revenue due to piracy. Vsl wants paying customers to cover their risk. Chris Hein is willing to accept that responsibility for that risk.
> 
> Vsl believes they can get away with this because they believe their product is the absolute best. And hey I bought it despite their greed, so maybe it is.
> 
> The insurance is an improvement over what was there before but everyone just needs to acknowledge that as expensive as Vsl was already, it’s now even more expensive. I just bought $5000 worth of it and I reckon over the next ten years of use it will be an additional $500 for the insurance. So, figure roughly it’s adding 10% to the price, problem solved. But make no mistake, they want us to pay for that risk of doing business. Personally I think they are probably losing more then 10% in sales this way, but who really knows.



But again, I’m not sure who would steal a library without being able to use the sounds because they are not authorized. I am saying that their authorization process could be a lot simpler for people Rather than putting it on something that can actually get lost or broken. Why not just make it completely 100% software protected? I understand the protection for audio plug-ins for mixing that get traveled from studio to studio, but the library is usually set in one place so I don’t know how much piracy there actual is.


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## babylonwaves (Oct 19, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> Just because I don’t VSL doesnt mean that I wasn’t considering them for a future purchase… So it does technically affect me in someway or at least my choices. No other company needs this level of protection for their library’s. I just see that it’s a bad policy, and on top of that, you HAVE to buy the key, instead of making it free. I mean if it’s required, why not just include it I the price somehow?




You know, I'm not working for VSL and I'm planning to spend my time defending them but I believe you don't really see this thing through. The eLicenser is not their copy protection but one by Steinberg and it's used by a lot of companies. As a result, it doesn't make much sense to include the hardware with a library purchase because you don't want to pay for the hardware over and over again. Same for the iLok and some for other companies using eLicenser base protection btw.
Also, I don't think it would be a good idea if you include the replacement key with the plan because then, you'd need to buy a spare key every time you re-fresh the plan although you haven't used it.


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## jaketanner (Oct 19, 2018)

babylonwaves said:


> EW Play / Composer Cloud libraries are protected with an iLok. That's one company with the same level of protection, just the manufacturer of the hardware copy protection is different.
> 
> You know, I'm not working for VSL and I'm planning to spend my time defending them but I believe you don't really see this thing through. The eLicenser is not their copy protection but one by Steinberg and it's used by a lot of companies. As a result, it doesn't make much sense to include the hardware with a library purchase because you don't want to pay for the hardware over and over again. Same for the iLok, some for other companies using eLicenser base protection btw.
> Also, I don't think it would be a good idea if you include the replacement key with the plan because then, you'd need to buy a spare key every time you re-fresh the plan although you haven't used it.



Since you mentioned Ilok then why not have that as their protection? ilok protects hundreds and hundreds of different products with one single, but VSL requires you to pay just for them. So if I pay the protection for ilok, then for VSL I’m looking at $110. I don’t want you to feel like you need to defend VSL, it’s just everybody has questionable business practices and sometimes it just doesn’t make sense when there are other options available. But I respect your opinion. If I do decide on VSL in the future, I will just add this into the budget. Lol


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## MarcelM (Oct 19, 2018)

70eur fee? this should be free and nothing else. you pay a ton of money for the libarys, and there is something called "customer service".

no vsl for me!


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## babylonwaves (Oct 19, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> Since you mentioned Ilok then why not have that as their protection? ilok protects hundreds and hundreds of different products with one single, but VSL requires you to pay just for them.


Some companies use an eLicenser (Steinberg, Arturia, VSL etc) and other use an iLok. I don't know why they've chosen an eLicenser back then. You can put multiple licenses on both keys so from this POV both copy protections are the same. I personally prefer iLok because you can buy one "emergency plan" for $30/yr and all licenses from all manufacturers are covered. I wish Steinberg would offer something similar for eLicenser.


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## MarcelM (Oct 19, 2018)

babylonwaves said:


> Some companies use an eLicenser (Steinberg, Arturia, VSL etc) and other use an iLok. I don't know why they've chosen an eLicenser back then. You can put multiple licenses on both keys so from this POV both copy protections are the same. I personally prefer iLok because you can buy one "emergency plan" for $30/yr and all licenses from all manufacturers are covered. I wish Steinberg would offer something similar for eLicenser.



steinberg will replace your license if your elicenser is lost or stolen without any fee. ofcourse the dongle has to be registered, but the service is FREE!


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## babylonwaves (Oct 19, 2018)

MarcelM said:


> steinberg will replace your license if your elicenser is lost or stolen without any fee. ofcourse the dongle has to be registered, but the service is FREE!


as I said, I wish Steinberg would offer something similar for all eLicenses, not only for their own software products.


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## S4410 (Oct 19, 2018)

I suppose this plan is acceptable for those who invested a vast amount of money on VSL libraries. But it's BAD service because now we know that they can disable a dongle that's stolen.
Sorry but this whole licensing thing punishes us customers, it 's almost offensive .


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## DocMidi657 (Oct 19, 2018)

Someone mentioned earlier that paying for insurance is just "a part of business". I have no argument with that statement EXCEPT when it applies to purchasing insurance... for cyring out loud... "for a LICENSE???" and for something that can be easily replaced without having to recreate anything or re-purchasing any materials. If my dongle that I paid for goes bad I unerstand I would have to buy another dongle but to have to pay fees for every license that was on it is just completely and utterly wrong! It's not like there is an option for backing up the licenses to protect yourself when or if the dongle goes bad... other then paying a recurring fee every two years! C'mon VSL you're better than this!


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 19, 2018)

so this is the dilemma that VSL thinks it has: Basically even if they can disable a stolen dongle, they can only disable it if and when the clepto-user plugs that dongle into the internet somewhere, and most likely only when they run the eLicensor software. There is still a tiny little sliver of possibility that someone would obtain or steal a dongle with licenses on it and then only use it on a machine that is off the net and thus never get it disabled and able to use VSL uninhibited for free as long as they continue like that.

Its a very small possibility, but VSL wants 100% assurance absolutely nobody can steal and use their samples. In order to ensure that its not 99.99%, but absolutely 100%, they basically make us pay for the lost/damaged licenses, or pay a 10% surcharge for insurance just in case.

The only way around this really is for VSL to provide a much more net connected approach to verifying licensing on an ongoing basis. Every 5th or 10th time you start up Vienna Plugins, they would connect over the net and verify the license is valid. However then it becomes a risk for the user because what if the server is down or they can't connect or the user is working offline. They could grant a couple grace attempts to keep working but sooner or later it would come down to either VSL needing to allow .01% chance for piracy in order to make sure all users will be able to run their software when they need to, or else users could end up in locked out condition and unable to use it...which is definitely not acceptable. (_sidenote, I think it would be acceptable for them to require a dongle to be checked once a year or something that that OUGHT to be plenty of assurance for them to know they are getting 99.9999% of piracy cases covered_).

So anyway, that's how it is folks. They have had this view for decades, its not going to change. Just decide if you want VSL for 10% more than the purchase price and enjoy it, because it is very great software. Another way to look at it is that there is absolutely ZERO possibility for some high school kids to obtain pirated VSL samples and start plastering spotify with orchestral mockups, devaluing ours over time. The tools are expensive, even more expensive as of today with the insurance, but that also provides some job security so to speak...

it is what it is.


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 19, 2018)

ps the 10% surcharge number i mentioned is just kind of a crude estimate. That's for $5000 worth of libraries over 10 years. If you only have a couple of libraries adding up to less money, then the surcharge is actually double or triple that amount, which is frankly ridiculous. And if you are lucky enough to have a lot more then $5000 worth of stuff on your setup, then it quickly becomes very much a no-brainer to just get the insurance and stop sniffling


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 20, 2018)

I’m not afraid of anything I don’t make a living at this. Just trying to put a positive spin on it. Having an overpriced and impossible to steal cost of entry to using vsl creates exclusivity for those that have it.

I understand your feeling about not wanting to buy their stuff out of principle though. I feel they are probably losing more sales and euros, then saving or gaining with this approach. But who really knows.


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## eboats (Oct 20, 2018)

This is a blatant greedy cash grab that shows no respect for their customers. I probably won't be buying any of their products again, and honestly haven't been too impressed with the VSL products I have bought that are older and haven't been kept up to date with the competition.


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## lumcas (Oct 20, 2018)

I'm already paying $30 yearly fee for iLok Zero Downtime and I see this as a well invested money. I've got over 250 licenses on my iLok. Steinberg provides the similar service for free. iLok has slowly moved into the second decade of the 21th century - now it offers cloud and machine based licensing, you often don't need a physical iLok at all. I like it.

This approach is ridiculous in this day and age. Sorry VSL, you cannot treat your paying customers like this, that was acceptable some 10 years ago. You should've raised your prices by a few bucks and include the "insurance" free for the existing licenses (at least for a first year). The result would be the same, but you wouldn't look like a bunch of crooks. Marketing 101...

I know that my whining won't make any difference, but I just had to write it here. I'm gonna vote with my wallet.


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## muk (Oct 20, 2018)

If you are unhappy with this 'solution', apart from discussing it here, please do send a polite e-mail to VSL. Let them know that you are unhappy and explain why. It's not much, but it's the only thing we can do. The more people write the better.

VSL could have tried to find a solution to protect their libraries without offloading all the risk onto their customers. Instead they are taking the opportunity to cash in on it. Not the decent thing to do in my opinion. I'm probably not going to buy any libraries from VSL anymore as long as this policy is in place.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 20, 2018)

shnootre said:


> Well, the timing is good for me. I just did the math and I have just over $5K of VSL libraries on that little dongle. And - I have a new work setup, where I am basically commuting between home and work offices WITH my Vienna Key EVERY DAY. I have sort have been a nervous wreck about what would happen when (not if) I lose that damn Vienna Key.



Worth mentioning: you can (and I certainly do) insure all your musical equipment, software included, as a separate policy or a floater on your homeowner's or renter's insurance. (That assumes it's business equipment, otherwise it's probably part of the regular policy. But don't take my word for it!)

If your investment is big enough that you can't afford to replace it out of pocket, then it's definitely worth it. And that's very different from "you go to front of line to replace licenses on broken dongle" insurance, which I'm... well, I already said it.


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## pinki (Oct 21, 2018)

DocMidi657 said:


> Someone mentioned earlier that paying for insurance is just "a part of business". I have no argument with that statement EXCEPT when it applies to purchasing insurance... for cyring out loud... "for a LICENSE???" and for something that can be easily replaced without having to recreate anything or re-purchasing any materials. If my dongle that I paid for goes bad I unerstand I would have to buy another dongle but to have to pay fees for every license that was on it is just completely and utterly wrong! It's not like there is an option for backing up the licenses to protect yourself when or if the dongle goes bad... other then paying a recurring fee every two years! C'mon VSL you're better than this!



This exactly.... I sold all my VSL once I realised this. 
I lost my iLok recently. I got in touch with every company and all licenses were replaced immediately no questions asked, no charge. Why exactly don't VSL have the same graceful policy? Because they can't be arsed.

They also don't make any of this clear to a naive purchaser.


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## dgburns (Oct 21, 2018)

And this is why I like Spectrasonics so much. One serial number works on all your machines, so long as they are yours. Never have to worry about switching machines or installing on a new build or losing / breaking dongles.


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## HBen (Oct 21, 2018)

VSL is greedy, and they never listen to customers. Take a look at false advertisement of Synchron Strings I, and for now the Vienna Key Protection Plan, any of your protest works? I don't think so. They are making good libraries indeed, but their way to take care of customers is bad and arrogant.

I will not buy any more VSL products since I learned so much from discussions here. We did all we can do since the fiasco of Synchron Strings I, and now, I am totally disappointed with this company. I have a lot of other options to choose, why torture myself and make myself a cash cow for VSL? I've paid once, and I have to keep paying? I am not buying an annual subscription, it's a license, a permanent serial number. Why I have to pay for an insurance or so? No way.


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## Symfoniq (Oct 21, 2018)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Worth mentioning: you can (and I certainly do) insure all your musical equipment, software included, as a separate policy or a floater on your homeowner's or renter's insurance. (That assumes it's business equipment, otherwise it's probably part of the regular policy. But don't take my word for it!)
> 
> If your investment is big enough that you can't afford to replace it out of pocket, then it's definitely worth it. And that's very different from "you go to front of line to replace licenses on broken dongle" insurance, which I'm... well, I already said it.



Unfortunately, this isn’t always possible. I tried to get my VSL eLicensers insured on a rider, and my insurance company wouldn’t do it. I tasked an agent with finding another insurance company who would, and he was unsuccessful.

The problem was either that insurers couldn’t be convinced that a $35 USB stick containing software licenses was worth many thousands of dollars, or that underwriters didn’t want to touch something so easily lost or stolen, and ultimately valueless to the insurance company if recovered.

Ultimately, VSL has opted to protect themselves before their customers, and it’s one of the primary reasons I’m getting out of their ecosystem.


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## rrichard63 (Oct 21, 2018)

Symfoniq said:


> ... I tried to get my VSL eLicensers insured on a rider, and my insurance company wouldn’t do it. I tasked an agent with finding another insurance company who would, and he was unsuccessful. ...


I suspect that this varies from one country to another.


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## Piotrek K. (Oct 21, 2018)

I still love my Special Editions, still mostly dislike Synchron Strings and still have no idea what VSL is trying to achieve since last few months.

They created system that punishes the most loyal customers - the more you spent with them, the bigger chance that you will need that insurance. So there are two cases - you buy cheap insurance and you sleep well or you do not buy it and you need to face consequences that may be much, much more painful. That's not insurance guys. It has different name. Starts with "b" and ends with "mail" 

I'm curious about disabling licenses though. They were always saying it is not possible. Now it is? Or maybe it's just a bluff?


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 21, 2018)

dbudde said:


> This policy seems like a stop gap until the new elicenser mechanism is finished.
> 
> We know that Steinberg is working on a new elicenser to replace the existing one. According to the developers of Dorico, it will be account based rather than dongle based. I assume this means for products that rely on the USB key as well as the soft-elicenser products (but that could be an incorrect assumption).
> 
> ...



Me too. Thanks v much for this post, I had no idea a Steinberg rep posted that. Could be very good news if they get it right.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 21, 2018)

Symfoniq said:


> Unfortunately, this isn’t always possible. I tried to get my VSL eLicensers insured on a rider, and my insurance company wouldn’t do it. I tasked an agent with finding another insurance company who would, and he was unsuccessful.
> 
> The problem was either that insurers couldn’t be convinced that a $35 USB stick containing software licenses was worth many thousands of dollars, or that underwriters didn’t want to touch something so easily lost or stolen, and ultimately valueless to the insurance company if recovered.
> 
> Ultimately, VSL has opted to protect themselves before their customers, and it’s one of the primary reasons I’m getting out of their ecosystem.



You're using $, so I'm guessing you're in the US.

I now have my stuff insured as a rider on our Farmers homeowners insurance, but I used to have this:

https://www.musicproinsurance.com

They understand insuring software licenses.


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## Casiquire (Oct 21, 2018)

It looks to me like they're hurting for money lately. Missing deadlines, churning out seemingly rushed products, and now this. Just by having the dongle in the first place they seriously limit how much theft can even occur. A much better solution here, since actual piracy of their libraries is essentially non-existent, is to offer reasonable case by case exceptions. For example, they can replace licenses no more than once in a rolling two years, and they can watch for patterns or excessive use. Mass scale piracy still wouldn't happen and they can still disable the dongle, so in the rare event that someone is actually using the old dongle they can never reinstall the libraries or update them or lose or break the dongle, and someone would still have to be buying the library and going through the trouble in the first place. Seriously, such piracy virtually wouldn't happen, and it would still require a purchase in the first place. Waves had a similar policy and they're doing fine. VSL's products speak for themselves, they shouldn't need to employ policies like this.


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## Ben (Oct 22, 2018)

I don't think so. They have the Synchron Stage and Hollywood seems to like it.


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## DaddyO (Oct 22, 2018)

I noticed this tidbit, points 5 and 6 in the details on their Protection Plan product page:

"*What if my ViennaKey breaks, or if I lose my key?*
...
5. Your lost/broken/stolen ViennaKey will be disabled and cannot be used anymore. *Your Vienna Protection Plan is now used up*.

6. Buy a new Vienna Protection Plan for new coverage."

(bold and italics mine)

So if you buy their two-year protection plan and you end up needing to use it early in the plan, your VSL investment is immediately again at risk, your protection is cut short, and you must buy a new plan.

While I can understand from Vienna's point of view these provisions best protect them, it seems to me far too stringent. They could insert language into the plan to protect them from abuse by illegitimate repeat offenders without making the assumption that if you need to make a claim for the protection you must immediately be suspect as a potential insurance-pirate.

It seems in every way VSL is going out of the way to take care of their own concerns without balancing it with the concerns of their loyal customers.

This program definitely fills what has heretofore been a gap offensive to loyal customers, but it has done so in a way that will still leave some loyal customers with somewhat of a bad taste. Professionals will certainly not blink at the cost, reckoning it as a cost of business. Hobbyists, who pay the same prices as professionals, will not be inclined to look at it the same way.

I suppose I will end up buying the plan, but points 5 and 6 leave a bad taste in my mouth. I still hope for a soft e-licensing solution.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 22, 2018)

DaddyO said:


> I noticed this tidbit, point 5 in the details on their Protection Plan product page:
> 
> "*What if my ViennaKey breaks, or if I lose my key?*
> ...
> ...



Great post.


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## DaddyO (Oct 22, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> It looks to me like they're hurting for money lately.



That's an interesting interpretation of the data. No idea if it's true, but perhaps 1) Synchron and it's initial libraries took longer to develop than they had planned (almost certainly true), 2) which pushed aside other moneymaking projects, and 3) the initial Synchron libraries have not sold as well as they had hoped. 

Re: (3), while some, perhaps many, perhaps most have embraced the Synchron libraries, very vocal complaints by others may have contributed to a "wait and see" attitude that could have attenuated demand.

Again, no idea if this is an accurate description of VSL's situation (as a VSL-only guy, I hope not). But it is a plausible description.


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## DaddyO (Oct 22, 2018)

One thing I will say in VSL's defense. They allow owners to resell their libraries. That is not a common policy in the virtual instruments business.


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## CT (Oct 22, 2018)

Yeah... but as someone currently trying to resell, this is only going to make it even harder. 

I'm grateful my forays into VSL's frustrating world were minor. There certainly won't be any more.


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## rrichard63 (Oct 22, 2018)

DaddyO said:


> One thing I will say in VSL's defense. They allow owners to resell their libraries. That is not a common policy in the virtual instruments business.


This is a valid point, and should be part of the cost/benefit calculation for users. The very tight license control makes license transfers less risky for the developer. I need to take this into account in my own thinking. Thanks for bringing it up.


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## Casiquire (Oct 22, 2018)

Ben said:


> I don't think so. They have the Synchron Stage and Hollywood seems to like it.



True, maybe money from the stage and the software go into different pickets? In any case, fair exceptions should be made and it wouldn't cut into their profits in any significant way.


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## DaddyO (Oct 22, 2018)

omiroad said:


> if you bought libraries at any kind of discount, *you have to pay the discount back to them.*



Hmmm. Not having sold any libraries, I was unaware of the discount payback. Most of my libraries were bought during sales. This in itself would make it nearly impossible for me to get any significant return on my investment. At current resale prices, it might even drive me negative should I attempt to sell.

Food for thought. Thanks omiroad.


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## wst3 (Oct 22, 2018)

I have only the Special Editions, and VEPro. I depend on VEPro, but I've all but stopped using the Special Editions, much as I like them I'm just not comfortable with the prospect of the costs of replacing them.

It strikes me, as others have said, that for whatever reason they've decided to put the onus of protecting their intellectual property on their customers, and I find that troubling.

I'm a pretty serious proponent of intellectual property rights. I've never balked when a company takes steps to protect their interests, even when PACE caused as many problems as it solved. I've used challenge/response, serial numbers, key discs, and dongles because I think they are reasonable solutions to the problem of piracy. I've lost a couple of tools I really like when companies went out of business and left no means to reauthorize, and it bugged me. I've had problems with on-line authorization.

It would be pretty cool if piracy wasn't a problem. But it would be even cooler if companies adopted anti-piracy measures that did not punish honest customers. And it can be done.

For now I'll hold on to my Special Edition libraries, in the hopes that this gets resolved. But I won't be purchasing any other libraries from them until it does.


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## rrichard63 (Oct 22, 2018)

wst3 said:


> It would be pretty cool if piracy wasn't a problem. But it would be even cooler if companies adopted anti-piracy measures that did not punish honest customers. And it can be done.


Please point us to a non-technical explanation of *how* it can be done. Specifically, is there a way to implement a scheme without dongles and not needing continuous internet access, that cannot be "cracked"?


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## kitekrazy (Oct 22, 2018)

dgburns said:


> And this is why I like Spectrasonics so much. One serial number works on all your machines, so long as they are yours. Never have to worry about switching machines or installing on a new build or losing / breaking dongles.



If you search the NorthernSoundSource site you could read Eric's anti dongle posts. You would never think a developer would have that kind of attitude.


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## SoNowWhat? (Oct 22, 2018)

kitekrazy said:


> If you search the NorthernSoundSource site you could read Eric's anti dongle posts. You would never think a developer would have that kind of attitude.


Makes me like Eric and Omni2 that much more (than I already do).


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## Paul T McGraw (Oct 22, 2018)

I own pretty much everything VSL has ever made, and in the full versions. I just bought the protection plan, and I'm glad they decided to offer it. I have lots of other sample libraries, but VSL remains my favorite. They are absolutely the best in my opinion. 

The constant complaining on this forum about the issue of the dongle and VSL policies seems like a colossal waste of time and energy. If you don't like their policies, don't buy their products. No one is forcing anyone to buy VSL products, and there are plenty of alternatives on the market. So what is the purpose of all of these endless complaints about VSL policies?


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## wst3 (Oct 22, 2018)

rrichard63 said:


> Please point us to a non-technical explanation of *how* it can be done. Specifically, is there a way to implement a scheme without dongles and not needing continuous internet access, that cannot be "cracked"?



I did not say "can't be cracked", I said didn't punish the honest customer. As folks have pointed out both Steinberg and Pace offer reasonable protection to both the developer and the consumer, some companies provide a serial number that you keep, some companies don't even go that far. It comes down to each developer deciding how much risk they are willing to accept. I think VSL has chosen to accept none, and I find that troubling.


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## dpasdernick (Oct 22, 2018)

Paul T McGraw said:


> I own pretty much everything VSL has ever made, and in the full versions. I just bought the protection plan, and I'm glad they decided to offer it. I have lots of other sample libraries, but VSL remains my favorite. They are absolutely the best in my opinion.
> 
> The constant complaining on this forum about the issue of the dongle and VSL policies seems like a colossal waste of time and energy. If you don't like their policies, don't buy their products. No one is forcing anyone to buy VSL products, and there are plenty of alternatives on the market. So what is the purpose of all of these endless complaints about VSL policies?




The problem is some of us bought their libraries before these new policies were put in place. Some of us may have looked elsewhere for these sounds. I love my VSL Special Editions but am not too happy about this.


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## Casiquire (Oct 22, 2018)

Paul T McGraw said:


> I own pretty much everything VSL has ever made, and in the full versions. I just bought the protection plan, and I'm glad they decided to offer it. I have lots of other sample libraries, but VSL remains my favorite. They are absolutely the best in my opinion.
> 
> The constant complaining on this forum about the issue of the dongle and VSL policies seems like a colossal waste of time and energy. If you don't like their policies, don't buy their products. No one is forcing anyone to buy VSL products, and there are plenty of alternatives on the market. So what is the purpose of all of these endless complaints about VSL policies?



I think voicing opinions is not only useful, it's sort of the entire point of this forum. Saying "I love Time Macros" or "VSL is too dry" is an equal waste of time and energy. Saying they'll never change anything is equally untrue since I believe this policy came from pressure in the community in the first place.


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## Shredoverdrive (Oct 22, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> I think voicing opinions is not only useful, it's sort of the entire point of this forum. Saying "I love Time Macros" or "VSL is too dry" is an equal waste of time and energy. Saying they'll never change anything is equally untrue since I believe this policy came from pressure in the community in the first place.


Amen to that.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 23, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> I believe this policy came from pressure in the community in the first place.



I haven't been on the VSL forum for ages, but are you saying people pressured them to do this?

Really?!


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## DocMidi657 (Oct 23, 2018)

Paul T McGraw said:


> I own pretty much everything VSL has ever made, and in the full versions. I just bought the protection plan, and I'm glad they decided to offer it. I have lots of other sample libraries, but VSL remains my favorite. They are absolutely the best in my opinion.
> 
> The constant complaining on this forum about the issue of the dongle and VSL policies seems like a colossal waste of time and energy. If you don't like their policies, don't buy their products. No one is forcing anyone to buy VSL products, and there are plenty of alternatives on the market. So what is the purpose of all of these endless complaints about VSL policies?


Hi Paul,
I am sincerely happy you are happy with VSL and your purchases and you are correct that that no one is forcing one to purchase VSL products however VSL NEVER communicated to me before I invested into their company in any clear and direct way that if my dongle were to suddenly stop working that I would have to pay to receive the "licenses" I already payed for back again. HOLY COW that is INSANE! And now "TO HELP US"  VSL wants to introduce a recurring fee every two years to insure these licenses I already paid for and should the dongle go bad BEFORE the 2 years I have to pay for the "insurance" all over again? And the point you raise of "discussing this here?" is last time I checked this is a community of composers who support and yes sometimes challenge each other. All good in my opinion. I want to know how others feel about this and if I'm wrong I want to hear other's opinions on the subject as well. If VSL by reading how frustrated folks are here decides to make this right great but if they don't all good... but I for one will never buy another VSL product until they do and I think by the response I'm not alone in this. And in regards to your comment about "No one is forcing anyone to use VSL" personally now that they have introduce their "wonderful solution to their loyal customers" the only way people will use their products is probably if they are forced!


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## Casiquire (Oct 23, 2018)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I haven't been on the VSL forum for ages, but are you saying people pressured them to do this?
> 
> Really?!



I believe so, yes. This issue has been raised for a while now and a few months back when asked about it they said they were looking into solutions. Then this came out.


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 23, 2018)

It'll be interesting to see what Steinberg come up with to replace the elicenser. Since its cloud based, it would presumably follow something like the Waves model. Though Waves Central is a thoroughly disastrous piece of software, the licensing policies are very good - if you lose a dongle you can still recover the licenses (1 time per year). I'm not sure what then happens to the USB stick's license - my guess is that the next time it sees the internet via Waves Central it will get wiped.

Anyway, all these policies will vary from company to company I guess... would love to believe VSL would do something similar once the tech is in place from Steinberg, but I shan't hold my breath.


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## kitekrazy (Oct 23, 2018)

DocMidi657 said:


> Hi Paul,
> I am sincerely happy you are happy with VSL and your purchases and you are correct that that no one is forcing one to purchase VSL products however VSL NEVER communicated to me before I invested into their company in any clear and direct way that if my dongle were to suddenly stop working that I would have to pay to receive the "licenses" I already payed for back again. HOLY COW that is INSANE! And now "TO HELP US"  VSL wants to introduce a recurring fee every two years to insure these licenses I already paid for and should the dongle go bad BEFORE the 2 years I have to pay for the "insurance" all over again? And the point you raise of "discussing this here?" is last time I checked this is a community of composers who support and yes sometimes challenge each other. All good in my opinion. I want to know how others feel about this and if I'm wrong I want to hear other's opinions on the subject as well. If VSL by reading how frustrated folks are here decides to make this right great but if they don't all good... but I for one will never buy another VSL product until they do and I think by the response I'm not alone in this. And in regards to your comment about "No one is forcing anyone to use VSL" personally now that they have introduce their "wonderful solution to their loyal customers" *the only way people will use their products is probably if they are forced!*




Quote of the week.


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## Casiquire (Oct 23, 2018)

omiroad said:


> People wanted a different solution than a dongle and tough luck if you lose it. But I don't think anyone wished for *this*, though some people are willing to accept it and pay up.



Absolutely agreed. I consider it another in a chain of missteps.


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## T-LeffoH (Oct 25, 2018)

Ben said:


> Not to forget: For each license they have to pay a fee to Steinberg. So it is understandable.
> I think the best solution would be if you could use Steinbergs recovery center for all eLicenser products. Maybe one day...



They should be using Steinberg's recovery center.

Imagine if every fine dining restaurant chose to do things like cure their own meats...even if they had a world-class butcher next door. Is the cost of adding in-house labor, time and risk worth it? Or is it better to foster the relationship with a high-quality service provider right down the street?

The most consistent and detrimental mistakes I saw working as an analyst around the world were in organizations reinventing solutions - or making proprietary solutions - when logical, better solutions already existed elsewhere. I've seen an organization blow $50 million on a product solution that 5 years later was just commercially licensed from another organization (with a better product) at 1% that amount.

With Vienna, in order to mitigate my risk of using VE-Pro slave machines I need three protection plans...so that's an additional €210 investment I need just to use a product that has little operational purpose in being validated via a USB dongle other than 'just because'...

And if I lose all of them to random incidents like a pipe bursts in my home causing water damage, or somebody steals them, or whatever...that's another €210.

Oh but I should also have backup keys. So another ~€90, and then the replacement backups backups...

Let's say it like it is...it's ridiculous.


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## Mornats (Oct 25, 2018)

The analogy I like is that is the same as a shop charging you to walk through the security scanner on your way out, just to make sure the scanner is always maintained and works.


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## T-LeffoH (Oct 25, 2018)

T-LeffoH said:


> They should be using Steinberg's recovery center.
> And if I lose all of them to random incidents like a pipe bursts in my home causing water damage, or somebody steals them, or whatever...that's another €210.



And if anything I said was not conceptually clear enough already. I continue to ask myself why do home, business or other variations of insurance exist?

...it's to cover the person or self-employed business owner's loss.

Vienna's product decision is suggesting that they now believe they should be in the ____ing insurance market. A specialty market to ensure that they solve your problem more quickly than existing solutions that already cover somebody.

It's absolute nonsense.


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## Dex (Oct 25, 2018)

Paul T McGraw said:


> I own pretty much everything VSL has ever made, and in the full versions. I just bought the protection plan, and I'm glad they decided to offer it. I have lots of other sample libraries, but VSL remains my favorite. They are absolutely the best in my opinion.
> 
> The constant complaining on this forum about the issue of the dongle and VSL policies seems like a colossal waste of time and energy. If you don't like their policies, don't buy their products. No one is forcing anyone to buy VSL products, and there are plenty of alternatives on the market. So what is the purpose of all of these endless complaints about VSL policies?



So that other potential buyers can be forewarned.

So that VSL might reconsider their policy (in the unlikely event that they come across this thread and the likely many more like it on other forums).

Reasons like that.


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## musix (Sep 6, 2019)

A very helpful discussion. Thanks, guys!

I was considering buying a first vsl library and planning to buy at least one or two additional ones later. Then I've noticed the absurd “insurance” offer in the cart page and I’ve realized that vsl would make me pay again their otherwise very expensive licenses I’d have paid for in case a stupid USB gets broken or whatever. Are they insane? Of course I’ve canceled everything.

Unfortunately this sort of behavior by vsl makes me view that company as a completely unreliable partner. Needles to say, if I would’ve already paid them for their quite expensive licenses, I am not going to pay them again. Disgusting…


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