# Constant Mind Wandering (ADHD / Procrastination)



## Lionel Schmitt (May 6, 2022)

Mind wandering seems to be the term for frequent off-task thoughts.

You mess around with the midi data of some cello and instead of focusing on the expression of the cello the mind reruns how someone pissed you off in the past, or that you really should do thing X or Y or even fairly random and not particularly emotionally charged stuff you talked about with someone or care about in some minor way? And you may have thought the same things many times before... 

Of course it's normal if that happens sometimes, according to some research it even happens 50% of the time on average for people. It can also be beneficial in some scenarios to not be too focused. Some cognitive tasks can benefit from light unrelated activity. Although surely not all mind wandering can count as that, especially when it's very negative and demands attention to plow through.

But how about... 95-99% of the time? Old things, new things, things that didn't happen yet... And you find yourself following these thoughts almost automatically while kinda sorta working at the same time with half a brain and realize 10 minutes later that you should actually really focus on the cello instead! 
Only to get lost in thoughts a half minute later again. 

That's basically me since years but I only fully realized the problem several months ago and that it's the main source of the focus and commitment problems while composing and problems in many other areas too - also leading to forgetfulness because I may think about some disagreements, all the work I have left to do or how much of a slacker I am instead of thinking about taking my keys with me or placing important things where I can find it again. 
I can barely remember times where I was truly focused on composing or even was really immersed in anything else except maybe some media/entertainment here and there. 

The mind wandering always keeps coming up with things I got passionate about and thought about instead because... why not? Nothing wrong with thinking right? I guess that's kinda how I never quite noticed it as a huge problem for years and it has now been ingrained into my brain and become my natural though process essentially. 
It's also common when doing just about anything for my brain to come up with many ways in which what I do or don't do is morally problematic or dangerous. Immersion, presence, focus or not native to me!

And often, especially when intently trying to focus on something like a simple math problem or trying to think hard about anything my mind also goes blank straight up without even wandering. Which is surely also normal to some extent. It's hard to read text for instance without soon only seeing words and white paper, that's one reason why I don't read books.
So my brain both blacks out and wanders... almost constantly. Which might sound more torturous than it is. As I said, I am so used that it that I only noticed it as a problem some months ago. Which doesn't make it less of a problem because it means I experience most of the input life has to maybe 50% and probably realize my creative potential by even less. 
Even though I also read that mind wandering can contribute to creativity. It certainly depends on the strength though. I doubt it's good to it as something to fully eliminate but too much is too much. And if you can barely have a half minute of focus any benefit is likely nullified. 

If you suffer from procrastination and keep finding yourself doing things you shouldn't be doing it might also be worth paying attention if the cause might be constant mind wandering. There is a reason you keep looking up random stuff on the internet... most likely your brain tells to do so while working... which sounds a lot like mind wandering rather than just a pure attention problem. Mind Wandering is a great cause of attention problems.

It works better with watching movies and series (which I don't do a lot)... I guess because I can just turn off my mind and get many senses filled at once. Hard to think about anything when you are fed with visual, sonic (talk, effects, music etc) intellectual and emotional stimuli plus a overall narrative to follow. Although it's overall hard to focus and I easily forget stuff, so I probably can follow the storylines of movies and series to about 60-80%. It's still enjoyable  
But that estimate is also a grim statement about how much of my musical potential I might be using, which is much harder than watching stuff. 

It's also worth noting that in my case at least it's not limited to negative things. It might also be relatively mundane or even nice things sometimes. Or constant repetitions of my own opinions and rebuttals to just about any topic, sometimes even arguments with real people or myself. All just mental, I never speak any of it out. Or random things like thinking about whether people from England might be more likely to thank you for listening to their work etc.... of course while there is next to nothing that justifies this thought. We still polish the midi data of a cello! Although sometimes it's also a train of thoughts triggered by something. 
But most of the time it's indeed strange or negative stuff. And usually nothing "crazy". In the case OCD it seems that people usually have unreasonable and irrational thoughts that cause fear. In my case it's usually fairly reasonable and rarely causes fear (although there are some anxiety problems too which are probably supported by mind wandering but that's a different can of worms). 

I have been in a lot of different situations and moods in the last time and in my case there is no relationship between amount of sleep, coffee, mood, project, task (except some passive stuff when trying), stress etc. 

I also score extremely high on both ADHD and neuroticism. Which seem to both promote mind wandering. 
I am likely to get psychological consultation on that and as soon as weed hits Germany I'll try it immediately haha. It seems to help some people with an overactive mind and ADHD. 

Curious about any experiences with that, possible aids (although that's of course depends on the person and problem). I guess this can just become a general thread about all that. I think procrastination and attention problems and even just a hard time working in general may often be very connected with an overactive and random mind.


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## Michel Simons (May 6, 2022)

This all sounds very familiar to me. And I have been aware of it for some time now. It has been a problem for both school and work-related tasks. But not to an extent that I had problems in both areas. It just means that tasks take longer than they should.

It can also be a problem when waking up in the middle of the night. Because once I am fully awake the machinery starts up and I might not fall asleep for a couple of hours. And yes, often it is just mundane thoughts, like compiling a grocery shopping list in my head.

The funny thing is that a couple of years ago, after having dabbled in making music for some 30 years, I realised that the only time that I am able to really focus on something for an hour or two is when I am working on my music.


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## Chris Schmidt (May 6, 2022)

Sorry, what were you saying?


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## Lionel Schmitt (May 6, 2022)

Michel Simons said:


> This all sounds very familiar to me. And I have been aware of it for some time now. It has been a problem for both school and work-related tasks. But not to an extent that I had problems in both areas. It just means that tasks take longer than they should.
> 
> It can also be a problem when waking up in the middle of the night. Because once I am fully awake the machinery starts up and I might not fall asleep for a couple of hours. And yes, often it is just mundane thoughts, like compiling a grocery shopping list in my head.
> 
> The funny thing is that a couple of years ago, after having dabbled in making music for some 30 years, I realised that the only time that I am able to really focus on something for an hour or two is when I am working on my music.


Yea, interesting. It's almost the reverse of my problem in some way. I rarely have problems with it when sleeping and even when doing nothing there is less going on.


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## MartinH. (May 7, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> Curious about any experiences with that, possible aids (although that's of course depends on the person and problem). I guess this can just become a general thread about all that. I think procrastination and attention problems and even just a hard time working in general may often be very connected with an overactive and random mind.


I think you should seriously try meditation. These following two youtube channels are pretty great for science backed info on related neuroscience and psychology topics. The first one has a stronger focus on exploiting hardwired neuro-biological mechanisms like how your body and mind react to light etc. and the second one has more info on meditation, psychology and ayurvedic medicine.



https://www.youtube.com/c/AndrewHubermanLab/videos




https://www.youtube.com/c/HealthyGamerGG/videos


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## el-bo (May 7, 2022)




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## Lionel Schmitt (May 7, 2022)

el-bo said:


>



a bit ironic... a 2 hour video for people who can't pay attention  But thanks! I hope I'll get myself to watch it eventually....


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## el-bo (May 7, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> a bit ironic... a 2 hour video for people who can't pay attention  But thanks! I hope I'll get myself to watch it eventually....


Haha! Indeed! You can listen to it if you like (The audio is better via video, however):



I think it's a good podcast, as it comes at the problem from a few different angles.


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## Project Anvil (May 7, 2022)

Before I say anything I should disclaim I don't experience the issue you describe so take what I say next with a grain of salt. 

Meditation and CBD oil are the first to things that come to mind. If you can't access the later, meditation is an obvious choice.

Be aware, it will very likely be frustrating and hard to do. Results will not be immediate, you'll find your mind wandering off all the time. It might feel pointless after a few tries and it's easy to give up on. This is the point.

I'm not saying that to discourage you but rather to help set your expectations. It will help, it's not easy. It's like working out, you don't go to the gym expecting to become ripped after a one hour session. Your success with meditation depends entirely on your commitment to the practice. The effort is not so much measured in time invested as it is in the consistency of practice.

I've found Sam Harris's Waking Up app (guided meditations) to be very helpful. Short, to the point, no fluff, but more content available if it interests you. If I am not mistaken the first few lessons are freely available, so you should be able to try those to see if they help you.

EDIT: here's an example of a guided meditation from Sam:


One other thing that I know works for some people is taking up an active sport. You'll have to find one you like, but for some people doing a sport really helps them focus and clear their heads.


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## CATDAD (May 7, 2022)

I also have issues regarding attention. Something that works well for me is deadlines! Obviously for personal work or distant deadlines this doesn’t work, but I have found that even setting a timer with an intention of what I want to get done within it works very well for me. I’m always sure to put it somewhere I can see it at all times so I don’t forget about it.

For some people this would do absolutely nothing useful, but for me it works very well because the timer creates a sense of challenge, which increases novelty and interest, which helps from becoming distracted. Instead of tweaking FX then going on a sound design adventure which leads me to looking up a tutorial online and then suddenly aimlessly surfing the internet for another hour, I’ll be more inclined to slap something functional on a track or bus and move on.

Or if I’m writing, I’ll solidify chord progressions/bass lines/melodies sooner before moving on to the next part because time’s racing on.

For mixing it’s helpful because you should be breaking up the work anyways to avoid ear fatigue.

The way people perceive things like added timers varies quite a bit, from being motivating, to stressful, to just ignoring it altogether. But I think it’s worth a shot for anyone who struggles with distraction! You can try breaking the timers in to many smaller pomodoro-like ones, or longer ones if the smaller ones break focus too much.

TL;DR visible timers may help generate pressure to get work done


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## timprebble (May 7, 2022)

With regards to focus, attention and distractions - have you removed all notifications from your phone & computer? It takes considerable effort to do so...

I've noticed over the last decade that computers & phones have actively evolved to become relentless distraction machines... I think it started with Instant Messaging (eg I used to feel it was some kind of virtue to always be 'available' online to my team when I was working as a supervising sound editor. But it really isn't, and it leads to shallow work) Apps, websites etc all try to send you notifications by default.

I enjoyed & recommend this book *Deep Work* by Cal Newport...


One stat from the book that is surprising in terms of focus:
*Someone messaging you to say “Hi!” costs you 23 minutes and 15 seconds.*
That is how long it takes to regain focus after a distraction.

Another important lesson or observation from the book (and from another I am reading) is realising that *willpower is a finite resource*. If you solely rely on willpower to try to achieve something, be aware that as the day continues and you become tired, your reserves of willpower depletes and it becomes more difficult to stay focused. Establishing rituals and habits can help, as they reduce the need for willpower and the process slowly becomes a fundamental part of your modus operandi. But try consciously comparing your 'distractibility' in the morning with later in the day....


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## KEM (May 8, 2022)

I have absolutely terrible ADHD, I can hardly focus on one task for more than like 30 minutes at a time, I really wish I was one of those guys that could compose for 12 hour straight but my brain is just not having any of that. I’ve been prescribed to Adderall but I hardly ever take it


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## Lionel Schmitt (May 11, 2022)

KEM said:


> I have absolutely terrible ADHD, I can hardly focus on one task for more than like 30 minutes at a time, I really wish I was one of those guys that could compose for 12 hour straight but my brain is just not having any of that. I’ve been prescribed to Adderall but I hardly ever take it


yep, my dream haha. Technically probably could and kinda did composer for very long times already but not really focused... the closest I got was with custom trailer music, which I used to hate but it really gets something out of me and helped a lot in some ways. Even pushed me to do a relatively intricate trailer track in like 6 hours after waking up. But it's to close to stressful rushing for a general approach anyway. Something still sticks afterwards though I think.


Project Anvil said:


> Before I say anything I should disclaim I don't experience the issue you describe so take what I say next with a grain of salt.
> 
> Meditation and CBD oil are the first to things that come to mind. If you can't access the later, meditation is an obvious choice.
> 
> ...



Yea, it's a great thing to keep in mind for impatient people, thanks! I often get annoyed if something doesn't show results within about 5 minutes  
Although I'm not sure I'll be doing it due to the way my brain works. I'm looking into certain branches of "mindfulness" which might be similar to meditation anyway, I guess there are no 100% clear words for any of that. 

I'm always dubious about legal non-prescriptive substances since it would probably have to be described if the medical effect was huge. 
But it sure doesn't hurt to try. The psychoactive stuff will be available at some point too in Germany, curious what that will do!




CATDAD said:


> I also have issues regarding attention. Something that works well for me is deadlines! Obviously for personal work or distant deadlines this doesn’t work, but I have found that even setting a timer with an intention of what I want to get done within it works very well for me. I’m always sure to put it somewhere I can see it at all times so I don’t forget about it.
> 
> For some people this would do absolutely nothing useful, but for me it works very well because the timer creates a sense of challenge, which increases novelty and interest, which helps from becoming distracted. Instead of tweaking FX then going on a sound design adventure which leads me to looking up a tutorial online and then suddenly aimlessly surfing the internet for another hour, I’ll be more inclined to slap something functional on a track or bus and move on.
> 
> ...


Great ideas, thanks! I sometimes use timers and it definitely can be useful. 
However a problem is that I am rather focused on details, emotion and artistic value and... well, that doesn't really call for "pressure". I think if I'd approach it more like work I'd have much fewer problems with it but... then I would rather not compose at all  



timprebble said:


> With regards to focus, attention and distractions - have you removed all notifications from your phone & computer? It takes considerable effort to do so...
> 
> I've noticed over the last decade that computers & phones have actively evolved to become relentless distraction machines... I think it started with Instant Messaging (eg I used to feel it was some kind of virtue to always be 'available' online to my team when I was working as a supervising sound editor. But it really isn't, and it leads to shallow work) Apps, websites etc all try to send you notifications by default.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the input! I unfortunately don't need any notifications at all to be distracted since I get strong mental notifications every second. I don't get a lot of notifications mostly. And even if, it might just distract me from much more sinister mental processes. 
I'm far too damaged to care about notifications or other more subtle things.
Hour of the day also never had an impact, in fact I used to do a lot of my best work late at night. Now it's basically random.


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## gsilbers (May 11, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> Mind wandering seems to be the term for frequent off-task thoughts.
> 
> 
> Curious about any experiences with that, possible aids (although that's of course depends on the person and problem). I guess this can just become a general thread about all that. I think procrastination and attention problems and even just a hard time working in general may often be very connected with an overactive and random mind.




Yep, Inatentive type ADD. OR ADHD-I. Its very underdiagnose as sometimes its mixed with depression or as you say, lazyness. Try some recommended articles, some lifestyle changes etc.. but nope. its a whole different ballgame.

Aderrall would help. I think Europe doesnt look too kindly to adhd medication. But it should help. If you indeed have adhd one thing that aderall/etc does it calm the brian. If you dont have adhd then itll get crank you up like coke. For being a stimulant, poeple with adhd get their brain calmed down. There are also others that have less potential for abuse. Its a whole underworld so thats why i the US is heavily regulated. But other similar stimulants have ways to only be used the way its intended.

This is what helps focus but at the same time, it will just make you focus on anything. So theres still personal responsibility to not go into wikipedia to figure out the info on the city your shoes came from in china and 4 hours later youve learned everything about non-dialism in eastern philosophy and now its day time.

Many always claim this sort of "oh i have some of that adhd cuz one time i..." but its not at all the same. Adhd is an actuall phisical brain issue where dopamine and seratonin dont function the same way as in other people. And not easy to control. Kids that are active adhd is easy but inatentive adhd is almost never found until adulthood. Its a lot more common with women not being diagnosed.

And its a hard thing to diagnose. The symtoms seems very common that happen to a lot of people but with adhd its an extra level affecting life stuff and its not a thing where you go to a physiologists or chnage behaviour and its solved. There is ample evidence of brain image scanning showing the effects of it. Its actually very linked to genetics. So if you have parents or grandparents that have it. Or have depression. Or where alcoholics or other illnesses that could have been either misdiagnose or not diagnosed. A doctor would have more relevant questions.

If you have smoked weed then maybe its different for you. But normally weed overstimulates the brain and makes poeple even more distracted. A lot of poeple with adhd normally drink a lot to calm the brain and even to go to sleep. Often misdiagnose with depression and getting worse since antidepressantes chnage the seratonin in different ways.

I have a beef with weed/cannabis industry because in Los angeles i saw the whole thing unfold. Medical mariguana was being held in this standard of "medicine" when it was bascially a hoax. I do believe in helps in some cases and thats great. But from that nugget of truth it went the way of bitcoin and NFT and holistic medicine and social media marketing where its the "new thing" where some "insider" knows and at the end its just a way to get some people money. Claming that weed is being pushed down by big pharma when its obvious theres billion dollar cannabis companies paying a lot for marketing and every CBD store (every corner in the US), is getting into that profitable business. So i tried for my insomnia and what a crock. The whole docotr thing was just a joke. The whole "strains" is also a joke. And medicinal is also a joke. IF people like smoking weed then fine. do it at home. But not claim the wonders of medicinal weed. Anyways, not sure why this section was so long lol.

So try reading in the ADHD section in reddit. Ask questions. Youll be surprised the symptons others have and the medicine they take. Every person is different. So some will be taking 50mg aderall or a coctail of stuff while others have it more mild and have aderall/etc just in situations when they need it. Stress for example can lead to more adhd. Also loneliness or trauma can lead to maladaptive daydreaming. So having a doctor who understands this
is key. Going to a regular doctor might not help. The thing is with adhd medication is that its so abused that every doctor will try to persuade you in another direction. So try a doctor that specialises on adhd to make sure you have it and not something else (who knows). And even though everyone says to listen to your doctor, ask a lawyer, ask a specialist, etc.. in my opinion, i think everyone should do research first and THEN go and confirm and talk to a doctor. Way too many bad things happened in my life where "hire a lawyer" went very wrong. Or go to a doctor and i get prescribed IB profin for pain and when i tell them that im alergic to aspirin they didnt understand why i said it and had to check with their computer. :/ Plus other stuff with other doctors where its obvous why US has a big issue with the health industry and "wellness" medicine is rising.

And of course, try the normal things to help focus. Changing your phone to black and white only. No social media. apps that alert you on spending too much time online etc. But those are just small stuff if the issue is physical. Its like telling the same thing to a person in a wheelchair to go up the stairs without a ramp. Sure he could do it, And im sure theres plenty of tips online for the type of stairs. but yeah.. its not the same for everyone else to get distracted or not pay attention than someone with adhd.
Again, see a specialized doctor for this. Not a common doctor / therapist. And trust your gut. If the doc says you dont have but you think you do then go elsehwere. On the other hand if a doc gives you 30mg aderall the first visit then also go elsehwere. Do your research first and then visit a good doctor. Not sure how it is in germany so look around. Ask around.


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## tressie5 (May 11, 2022)

I've never been diagnosed with ADHD, but now I'm curious. I stopped drinking about a year ago because of health issues. Since then, I haven't sat on my couch to watch TV. I tried...but just couldn't do it. Why? No beer to put the brakes on me. I'm considering selling my TV. The only reason I've kept it around is because it fills up space in my living room along with my ten guitars which I don't even play anymore. Just for the record, what I have been diagnosed with is Autism, Bipolar Disorder, Anxiety, Depression and PTSD. Sitting still just ain't in my nature.


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## Jotto (May 12, 2022)




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## Loïc D (May 12, 2022)

I don't suffer of ADHD but I have a wife who's constantly giving me tasks to do or asking questions. Like, every 10 minutes.
When she's not here, the cat takes over the job.
So, I'm not really focused on stuff as well.

Oh, what was I writing ? Huh ? Dishwashing ? Ok I'm coming... Sorry guys.


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## cookiecutter (May 12, 2022)

Tough to hear, I recognize alot of it especiialy the "oh, look squirrel" attention disrupters. Somebody already mentioned deadlines and timers, which for me helps getting a sense of control over the distraction. When I notice I've gotten distracted I start the timer and give myself say 15 minutes. That sense of control reduces the anxiety.

Also it could be that yiou need more distractions. Yeah I know, but hear me out =) For alot of people in with these problems it's like having your 8 core processor only processing 2 things, which leaves alot of capacity for distractions. Adding something like music or pink/white noise can help with keeping the brain busy enough. 

For meditation like resources I can add the Headspace app, that I've trying out. *Super-hard* for someone like me to focus, so don't be discouraged if meditations doesn't work for you. 

Also, not one thing works for everybody. For me it's been trial and error, and I still haven't found the perfect solution.


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## Montisquirrel (May 15, 2022)

Put away all the things which helps you procrastinate or better, throw them away.
When you are a smoker and you have cigarettes at home you will not quit smoking, if you are a drinker and have alcohol in your home, you will drink. If you want to make music at the computer and you computer is connected to the internet, you will go to v.i.control (or Youtube,...).

So, cut of internet, lock away your phone. There are no excuses for having your mobile phone with internet next to you when you need to do other things. I know these things will not be a cure for everything or everybody, but anyway....run away from the things which stop you to do what you need to do. It is actually very easy. Just do it.


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## el-bo (May 15, 2022)

Montisquirrel said:


> Put away all the things which helps you procrastinate or better, throw them away.
> When you are a smoker and you have cigarettes at home you will not quit smoking, if you are a drinker and have alcohol in your home, you will drink. If you want to make music at the computer and you computer is connected to the internet, you will go to v.i.control (or Youtube,...).
> 
> So, cut of internet, lock away your phone. There are no excuses for having your mobile phone with internet next to you when you need to do other things. I know these things will not be a cure for everything or everybody, but anyway....run away from the things which stop you to do what you need to do. It is actually very easy. Just do it.


I gotta push back on this, a little (Maybe a lot).

It's not that I don't believe in the power of cleanses, digital or otherwise. But there're triggers everywhere for any of hundreds of unwanted behaviours. If success can only be achieved in the total absence of such triggers, how will we ever protect ourselves in situations where we are not in control of the environment?

Alcoholics and drug-addicts need to learn to cultivate their sobriety in a world where it'll consistently be tested. Same goes for gambling, food addictions, addiction to sex etc. etc. And while i'm not suggesting an ex-alcoholic take up home-brewing beer as either a hobby or a way to test their willpower, I do think it's worth looking to shoring ourselves up with the kind of self-belief/discipline to remain unyielding in the eyes of the various inevitable storms.

I'm certainly not an advertisement for success, in this regard, but I'm very convinced that it's a preferable route to take.


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## YahmezTV (May 15, 2022)

I’ve consulted in the commercial cannabis industry. I’ve grown thousands of pounds of weed in my life and you’ll be hard pressed to find anyone who enjoys consuming it more than I do… 

That said, if racing thoughts and mental tangents are the problem, I would be sceptical of anyone who recommends weed as a one-stop method to “quiet the mind”…

It might promote focus… _or_ it might generate novelty in a way that makes it *more* difficult to focus. Too many individual factors to say whether you’ll benefit or even enjoy it. YMMV If you do choose to try it…pay attention to your body. Be extra sceptical of anyone who assures you that CBD is non psychoactive…it’s a different sensation, but every bit as psychoactive as THC. Again, YMMV. 

You’ve noticed that there are changes you’d like to make and that’s huge - noticing is half the battle and paying attention is the essence of zen meditation. There’s been some great recommendations here …eckhart tolle, Sam Harris (both contemporary writers who do a good job of distilling the practical benefits of zen without all the religious trappings). These guys (among others) changed my life more than any molecule ever has.


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## Cdnalsi (May 15, 2022)

I've seen it mentioned on the previous page, but getting Sam Harris' Waking Up app did wonders for my attention and overall focus and productivity while composing and sequencing, I highly recommend it!


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## ka00 (May 15, 2022)

You are describing rumination; a symptom of anxiety and low mood. Might have nothing to do with ADHD.

Look up some CBT-based books on these topics for help on recognizing and overcoming it. It is common and very possible to solve.


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## el-bo (May 15, 2022)

YahmezTV said:


> It might promote focus… _or_ it might generate novelty in a way that makes it *more* difficult to focus.


Also worth considering that a major reason for why weed-smoking can become so powerfully addictive is in its ability to make even the most boring and mundane interesting; exciting, even (Yup! That "mind-blowing, man!", 3-hour blues jam you and you r mates did, sounds shit when sober  )
This can clearly cause issues when the quality of the result not only depends on technique, but on taste and discernment. Not everyone has a George Martin, to reign them in


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## Ed Wine (May 15, 2022)

timprebble said:


> With regards to focus, attention and distractions - have you removed all notifications from your phone & computer? It takes considerable effort to do so...
> 
> I've noticed over the last decade that computers & phones have actively evolved to become relentless distraction machines... I think it started with Instant Messaging (eg I used to feel it was some kind of virtue to always be 'available' online to my team when I was working as a supervising sound editor. But it really isn't, and it leads to shallow work) Apps, websites etc all try to send you notifications by default.
> 
> ...



The external world is not where the problem resides, unfortunately.


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## Lionel Schmitt (May 23, 2022)

@gsilbers 

(removed the post as quote because it was too many letters combined with my responses to post)

Thank you for all the thoughts!
I'm definitely on the way to look for the right help and yes, I'm inherently very critical and skeptical so I should be able to avoid falling into the wrong hands.
I also think in my case it might be a combo of ADHD and high neuroticism, feeding back into each other.
Definitely important to get the diagnosis right, if there even is any term haha...



tressie5 said:


> I've never been diagnosed with ADHD, but now I'm curious. I stopped drinking about a year ago because of health issues. Since then, I haven't sat on my couch to watch TV. I tried...but just couldn't do it. Why? No beer to put the brakes on me. I'm considering selling my TV. The only reason I've kept it around is because it fills up space in my living room along with my ten guitars which I don't even play anymore. Just for the record, what I have been diagnosed with is Autism, Bipolar Disorder, Anxiety, Depression and PTSD. Sitting still just ain't in my nature.


That all sounds very tough.. wishing you all the best!


Loïc D said:


> I don't suffer of ADHD but I have a wife who's constantly giving me tasks to do or asking questions. Like, every 10 minutes.
> When she's not here, the cat takes over the job.
> So, I'm not really focused on stuff as well.
> 
> Oh, what was I writing ? Huh ? Dishwashing ? Ok I'm coming... Sorry guys.


thankfully I'm aromantic :D


cookiecutter said:


> Tough to hear, I recognize alot of it especiialy the "oh, look squirrel" attention disrupters. Somebody already mentioned deadlines and timers, which for me helps getting a sense of control over the distraction. When I notice I've gotten distracted I start the timer and give myself say 15 minutes. That sense of control reduces the anxiety.
> 
> Also it could be that yiou need more distractions. Yeah I know, but hear me out =) For alot of people in with these problems it's like having your 8 core processor only processing 2 things, which leaves alot of capacity for distractions. Adding something like music or pink/white noise can help with keeping the brain busy enough.
> 
> ...


Thank you - I do use timers sometimes indeed. I can be useful, but it's not always ideal since I have very high "artistic" standards haha... so I don't want to be pushed to make quick "yea that kinda does the job" decisions...

And when writing music it's hardly applicable to add distractions like more music or podcasts etc.
But I should perhaps fill my head with stuff that may be related to the track I'm writing. Media, pictures, trailers etc....


Jotto said:


>



I'm always skeptical of anyone without psychological qualification...


YahmezTV said:


> I’ve consulted in the commercial cannabis industry. I’ve grown thousands of pounds of weed in my life and you’ll be hard pressed to find anyone who enjoys consuming it more than I do…
> 
> That said, if racing thoughts and mental tangents are the problem, I would be sceptical of anyone who recommends weed as a one-stop method to “quiet the mind”…
> 
> ...


Thanks for the warning! I'm overall skeptical and careful as a person so I should be able to do well with it. 
With the 2 guys - I'm skeptical of non-psychologists. Also meditation, since the responsibility is of course fully on me how it goes down and... I have low faith in my brain! A bit like a broken device trying to fix itself. May work... or not...
I'm looking into dedicated psychological (etc) councelling.


ka00 said:


> You are describing rumination; a symptom of anxiety and low mood. Might have nothing to do with ADHD.
> 
> Look up some CBT-based books on these topics for help on recognizing and overcoming it. It is common and very possible to solve.


Well, I hit about 95% of the ADHD symptoms so it would be amazing. Looked up a lot of reputable sources.
It's probably a combo. High neuroticism (thus also anxiety) + ADHD.


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## MartinH. (Jun 23, 2022)

I just saw an ad for an ADHD guide that I now preordered because I think healthygamer is doing good work in general: 






Lionel Schmitt said:


> I'm always skeptical of anyone without psychological qualification...


You mean Eckhart Tolle? I think he is worth checking out and you should definitely _also _be skeptical of people _with _psychological qualification.
The way I see it Tolle is one of those people who "stumbled upon enlightenment" for lack of a better word, and it's hard to make someone else find something methodically when you found it randomly yourself. Feels like a lot of the people that teach anything meditation related had some kind of very impactful experience that shaped their views, often tragic events... 

But exactly like with physical excercise, you don't need to be able to run a marathon to get tangible benefit from it. You just need to start doing something, and stay consistent. I haven't figured out a way to do that for meditation yet, but I fully believe it would be beneficial to pretty much everyone.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Jun 24, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> I just saw an ad for an ADHD guide that I now preordered because I think healthygamer is doing good work in general:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tip!

Well I'm skeptical of anyone. But basically disregard people without qualification. You can't "guess around" when it comes to the mind. There are extremely specific processes involved behind a lot of things. I've spent a lot (too much) time with this and at this point if someone talks about "enlightenment" I just ask "what's the process behind it neurologically?".
I have 0% space for anything slightly fuzzy. It's easy to think you're doing something good for your mind while actually degrading it without knowing the neurological processes. The brain is an organ like our legs. That's why medications alone can sometimes change lives just by correcting some chemicals.
It's just over romanticized because people probably don't like thinking our magical personality is just some organic sponge 
Of course all the spiritual stuff like meditation can be great (meditation looks great based on my research and I am doing it) because it often does target these processes. There are proven effects of meditation (although also some potential side effects, important to consider).
But when someone ONLY comes from the spiritual perspective they are only guessing based on their own personal experience and "enlightenment" which may not translate to me or you or anyone else. They don't understand the actual "organ" they want to treat.


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## Bluemount Score (Jun 24, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> Thanks for the tip!
> 
> Well I'm skeptical of anyone. But basically disregard people without qualification. You can't "guess around" when it comes to the mind. There are extremely specific processes involved behind a lot of things. I've spent a lot (too much) time with this and at this point if someone talks about "enlightenment" I just ask "what's the process behind it neurologically?".
> I have 0% space for anything slightly fuzzy. It's easy to think you're doing something good for your mind while actually degrading it without knowing the neurological processes. The brain is an organ like our legs. That's why medications alone can sometimes change lives just by correcting some chemicals.
> ...


A touch of spirituality here and there is something I, of course rather irrationally, sometimes like to throw in to fill the unexplored parts of our consciousness - or anything (uuuh universe and stuff) in general, for that matter. My understanding of the world doesn't depend on it, insofar as I'm always ready to be disproved, but it gives me something certain. In fact, I don't see much point in selling such spiritual thoughts as truth, if at all only the personal truth based on own experiences. But in the background of my thoughts they are sometimes a positive nice to have in everyday life - a feeling as if there's something more to it - even though I am pretty sure there's mostly sponge in my head. Gooey sponge.


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## FinGael (Jun 24, 2022)

Meditation, being present and especially being present in nature. Being still and present in nature is great, because it lets the overdriven nervous system and brain to relax and rest, as the nature at the same time is balancing both the body and mind.

Many people do not get it, and only use nature as a backdrop for some goal oriented doing (hiking, running, climbing etc). Sure, that can be fun and make you feel better, but oh boy what they are missing...

About 25 years ago I was struggling to be able to concentrate on anything, and was so anxious that I could not spend a moment in silence; I always had to have music or tv on, even when I was sleeping. I was completely exhausted by the compulsive, non-stop thinking - that I was not able to stop.

Nowadays, with a deep connection to nature, or in my case one could say that in being in unity with nature, I can usually be quite long times without any thoughts, and enjoy immensely the stillness and the presence and the beauty of life, which I earlier in my life could not find, because of all thoughts and concepts in my mind blocking the way.

All the best.


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## FinGael (Jun 24, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> Well I'm skeptical of anyone. But basically disregard people without qualification. You can't "guess around" when it comes to the mind.



That is a valid opinion, or point of view, but what is "a qualified"? I mean that one can always decide to only listen to educated professionals, but I know something about the other side of the coin; I have no formal education in these topics and during the years I have been able to help or heal many individuals and animals which the qualified professionals have not been able to help.

(I have done that for service, not getting paid anything for it. Only have done my best to help fellow human beings who have come to ask for help)


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## MartinH. (Jun 24, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> Thanks for the tip!
> 
> Well I'm skeptical of anyone. But basically disregard people without qualification. You can't "guess around" when it comes to the mind. There are extremely specific processes involved behind a lot of things. I've spent a lot (too much) time with this and at this point if someone talks about "enlightenment" I just ask "what's the process behind it neurologically?".
> I have 0% space for anything slightly fuzzy. It's easy to think you're doing something good for your mind while actually degrading it without knowing the neurological processes. The brain is an organ like our legs. That's why medications alone can sometimes change lives just by correcting some chemicals.
> ...



That's ok, I'm basically with you on most of what you said, I just presumably (since I'm over a decade older than you) have looked to science for answers a lot longer, and realized that it barely scratches the surface yet of truely understanding the brain. When you read up about antidepressant medication for example it is shocking how often you'll find that they don't actually know how exactly it's working. They know it's working for xx% of people, they know it's safe-ish, they have some observations about changing levels of certain neurotransmitters etc. so they form a hypothesis that this and that is causal, but then there are other experiments that put that causality into question, or people who have abnormal levels of those neurotransmitters but aren't depressed, or vice versa. I believe in the scientific method as the way forward, but I know that there is still so so much to discover.
And even among highly qualified and accomplished scientists there often is a dispute about who's right.
Keep researching! You'll start looking beyond established mainstream science when you feel ready for it. I used to recoil from everything "spiritual" at least as much as you do. But I'm realizing there are people that have figured things out for themselves that no doctor could have simply given them. Whether they can pass it on is another question of course.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Jun 24, 2022)

Bluemount Score said:


> A touch of spirituality here and there is something I, of course rather irrationally, sometimes like to throw in to fill the unexplored parts of our consciousness - or anything (uuuh universe and stuff) in general, for that matter. My understanding of the world doesn't depend on it, insofar as I'm always ready to be disproved, but it gives me something certain. In fact, I don't see much point in selling such spiritual thoughts as truth, if at all only the personal truth based on own experiences. But in the background of my thoughts they are sometimes a positive nice to have in everyday life - a feeling as if there's something more to it - even though I am pretty sure there's mostly sponge in my head. Gooey sponge.


Well, some mystery is good as long as one doesn't tout it out as a definite and true statement, as tends to happen on the spiritual side 


FinGael said:


> Meditation, being present and especially being present in nature. Being still and present in nature is great, because it lets the overdriven nervous system and brain to relax and rest, as the nature at the same time is balancing both the body and mind.
> 
> Many people do not get it, and only use nature as a backdrop for some goal oriented doing (hiking, running, climbing etc). Sure, that can be fun and make you feel better, but oh boy what they are missing...
> 
> ...


That sounds like nature assisted awareness training... scientifically it probably increased activity in attention related networks and decreased it in self-referential ones like the Default Mode Network.
Maybe there is also something deeper to nature itself that resonates with humans. 
Great that you got out of the dark!
I'll soon live super close to a forest, almost within... so that sounds great :D


FinGael said:


> That is a valid opinion, or point of view, but what is "a qualified"? I mean that one can always decide to only listen to educated professionals, but I know something about the other side of the coin; I have no formal education in these topics and during the years I have been able to help or heal many individuals and animals which the qualified professionals have not been able to help.
> 
> (I have done that for service, not getting paid anything for it. Only have done my best to help fellow human beings who have come to ask for help)


well, it's luck over expertise. Both can get you in places.
It's always possible that people without qualification can outperform those with, but they might be hard to find. 
At the end it's 1 person with lots of personal opinions and experience versus a field with millions of people involved over the course of time and lot of rigour. 
None of it is perfect, but my vote goes to the latter.


MartinH. said:


> That's ok, I'm basically with you on most of what you said, I just presumably (since I'm over a decade older than you) have looked to science for answers a lot longer, and realized that it barely scratches the surface yet of truely understanding the brain. When you read up about antidepressant medication for example it is shocking how often you'll find that they don't actually know how exactly it's working. They know it's working for xx% of people, they know it's safe-ish, they have some observations about changing levels of certain neurotransmitters etc. so they form a hypothesis that this and that is causal, but then there are other experiments that put that causality into question, or people who have abnormal levels of those neurotransmitters but aren't depressed, or vice versa. I believe in the scientific method as the way forward, but I know that there is still so so much to discover.
> And even among highly qualified and accomplished scientists there often is a dispute about who's right.
> Keep researching! You'll start looking beyond established mainstream science when you feel ready for it. I used to recoil from everything "spiritual" at least as much as you do. But I'm realizing there are people that have figured things out for themselves that no doctor could have simply given them. Whether they can pass it on is another question of course.


Sure, but I didn't science has figured it all out. So need to refute that 
I'm sure most scientists would agree. 
But it's the best shot IMO. Superior to a very confident individual wandering around in their mind, finding enlightenment and trying to somehow convey that. Especially considering that everyone is different and has different problems and roots of problems (of course with a lot of overlap too, which is exactly what science is best for. It's more generalizable than a single persons experience).
Both can help people, both have problems - I prefer the problems of science.


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## Roger Newton (Jun 24, 2022)

I've lost track of the thread.


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## MartinH. (Jun 24, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> Maybe there is also something deeper to nature itself that resonates with humans.


Iirc there are studies that have shown positive impact (e.g. on subjective pain scores, maybe even on statistical health outcomes) from displaying nature imagery in hospital environments. 




Lionel Schmitt said:


> I'll soon live super close to a forest, almost within... so that sounds great :D


I remember reading something about plant aerosols being good for mood, but I can't find it anymore. Enjoy your new closer to nature home! Feels intuitive that this would be a healthier place to live than big cities.




Lionel Schmitt said:


> At the end it's 1 person with lots of personal opinions and experience versus a field with millions of people involved over the course of time and lot of rigour.
> None of it is perfect, but my vote goes to the latter.


If you take a second look, you will realize that this description fits lots of groups. Lots of individuals that spread bullshit based on opinions and experience are actually scientists. And some of those fields with millions of people involved over the course of time and a lot of rigour and methodical experimentation are fields of traditional medicine or spiritual practices. It's not a black vs white competition.




Lionel Schmitt said:


> But it's the best shot IMO. Superior to a very confident individual wandering around in their mind, finding enlightenment and trying to somehow convey that. Especially considering that everyone is different and has different problems and roots of problems (of course with a lot of overlap too, which is exactly what science is best for. It's more generalizable than a single persons experience).
> Both can help people, both have problems - I prefer the problems of science.


Western medicine is actually rather bad at treating people as individuals with individual needs. In some cases it's shockingly bad. When you look up the average time it takes to get some rarer issues properly diagnosed, it's sad how many years most of the people in certain groups suffer.









A guide for the diagnosis of rare and undiagnosed disease: beyond the exome - Genome Medicine


Rare diseases affect 30 million people in the USA and more than 300–400 million worldwide, often causing chronic illness, disability, and premature death. Traditional diagnostic techniques rely heavily on heuristic approaches, coupling clinical experience from prior rare disease presentations...




genomemedicine.biomedcentral.com





_"The average time for accurate diagnosis of a rare disease is about 4–5 years [5,6,7]; in some cases, it can take over a decade [8, 9]. These patients face a diagnostic odyssey and often undergo extensive and expensive workups at several institutions. Despite this, patients often remain undiagnosed or even misdiagnosed [8], which further adds emotional distress to patients and family members."_


But I want to make it clear so that there are no misunderstandings: I'm still 100% pro science. It's da bomb! But until they've figured out literally everything, I'll take some calculated risks trying out some things people found working for them, before science could tell us why it works. Just look back in history, all the healing herbs that we scientifically know to be beneficial where already beneficial long before science knew why. I hope in a far future science will be able to exactly tell us why some of the "out there" theories were right all along and why others always were nonsense.


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## NuNativs (Jun 24, 2022)

Emulate the scene in "Swordfish" where the guy hacking was being given a blowjob with a gun to his head...


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## PeterN (Jun 24, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> That's ok, I'm basically with you on most of what you said, I just presumably (since I'm over a decade older than you) have looked to science for answers a lot longer, and realized that it barely scratches the surface yet of truely understanding the brain. When you read up about antidepressant medication for example it is shocking how often you'll find that they don't actually know how exactly it's working. They know it's working for xx% of people, they know it's safe-ish, they have some observations about changing levels of certain neurotransmitters etc. so they form a hypothesis that this and that is causal, but then there are other experiments that put that causality into question, or people who have abnormal levels of those neurotransmitters but aren't depressed, or vice versa. I believe in the scientific method as the way forward, but I know that there is still so so much to discover.
> And even among highly qualified and accomplished scientists there often is a dispute about who's right.
> Keep researching! You'll start looking beyond established mainstream science when you feel ready for it. I used to recoil from everything "spiritual" at least as much as you do. But I'm realizing there are people that have figured things out for themselves that no doctor could have simply given them. Whether they can pass it on is another question of course.


lot of "science" is just what is convenient for society at the present zeitgeist. its such a mess anyway, better to observe from a distance. the indoctrination in western society been so profound, and thorough, peoples "opinions", on various matter, are not even own opinions, but just some phrases you pick up fro the indoctrination menu. no wonder people are confused. to really observe, you must break out from whole western society. or maybe some drug could do this too. some philosopher said art has the ability to manifest that, which is before indoctrination. the unknown. the spiritual. and that this is the role of the artist (musicians included).


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## marius_dm (Jun 24, 2022)

I’m currently reading “Four Thousand Weeks” by Oliver Burkeman. It probably won’t fix my problem but does make me question some things. I have a similar issue where all my focus reserves are used up by my demanding software development day job and family and kids with very little left in the evenings to do anything else.


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