# LASS: First impressions



## Gabe S. (Jul 27, 2009)

Hi.

Well, I got LASS loaded up here. And a few thoughts come to mind:

First, I've been around the block a few times with many different sample libraries over the years, so I've seen my share of releases. 

In my mind, sample libraries fall into three general categories:

1. The kind where you blow through a zillion patches searching for a few gems----not fun
2. The kind where it's a science project and it's hard to use----not fun
3. The kind where you pull up a patch and an hour goes by because you lost track of time playing it-------fun!

LASS falls into category #3. It's a joy to play and I find myself lingering on patch after patch. 

Other thoughts:

-The divisi concept is very cool, and sounds nice to my ears---loading up the four splits of the section is the way to go as far as sound goes for me--you get lots of control. And the first chair really adds some nice detail that can be lost in a "sectional" sound, although I seem to prefer mixing it lower so it doesn't dominate. 
-The legato implementation is very cool---lots of options for different transition types/speeds. It's easy to play and get something useful without having a tweakfest.
-The A.R.T. script for playing fast staccatos is really really cool---really fun to play.
-It's not hard to add verb to this library and get something usable quickly......and I haven't even experimented with the Impulse Responses that LASS offers, which is a nice bonus.
-The programming feels very solid so far in my limited use. In fact, in my opinion, this library raises the bar for some much bigger operations than Andrew's.

Anyway, I'm enjoying my first moments with LASS. Just thought I'd share. 

Cheers.
-gabe


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## dcoscina (Jul 27, 2009)

How about putting together a quick little demo for us? See how it sounds in the real world. Thanks for the post!


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## RiffWraith (Jul 27, 2009)

Thanks for the review.



Gabe S. @ Mon Jul 27 said:


> ... this library raises the bar for some much bigger operations than Andrew's.



Gee, I wonder who you might have meant there.... :lol: 

+1 on the demo if you have time. :D


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## dcoscina (Jul 27, 2009)

RiffWraith @ Mon Jul 27 said:


> Thanks for the review.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you visit Cubendo, there is some interesting info regarding the other company and Andrew's library. 

I don't want to rock the boat here, but if Andrew's library was $750, I would have already bought it. I know my financial limitations are not his problem- I'm merely illustrating how impressed I am with his lib the more I hear those demos and how I would buy it if funds were available. Cannot say the same for the other current string library which, to my ears, sounds unconvincing.


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## choc0thrax (Jul 27, 2009)

dcoscina @ Mon Jul 27 said:


> I don't want to rock the boat here, but if Andrew's library was $750, I would have already bought it. I know my financial limitations are not his problem.



No, it's all our problem cause we got to listen to this whining day in and day out. 8)


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## Aaron Sapp (Jul 27, 2009)

LOL


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## RiffWraith (Jul 27, 2009)

Just say it - why does it have to be "the other company"? Why the secret? It's EastWest/QL.

Andy priced his lib - I am sure - on a few factors. One of them being how many units he expects to sell. He is not EW, nor VSL; he does not have (that I am aware) a plethora of other products that generate income, where if he falls short of his goal, it would be ok, because those other products can pick up "the slack". He has to try to at least break even. Personally, I hope he does really well here - he put a lot of had work into this and if this lib is as good as it seems, he deserves to be well rewarded for his time and efforts. But saying "if the lib $xyz, I would have bought it" - almost makes it sound like you are hoping that Andy "will see the light" and lower the price - that is a little immature and unprofessional, no? 8)


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## synthetic (Jul 27, 2009)

The price is more than fair. Look at VSL and others. EW is vaporware until they ship.


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## Pedro Camacho (Jul 27, 2009)

I am quite convinced the new strings from EW will be around 2000 USD mark.


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## Christian Marcussen (Jul 27, 2009)

Pedro Camacho @ Mon Jul 27 said:


> I am quite convinced the new strings from EW will be around 2000 USD mark.



I hope for theirsake that they price it more competitively than that :D


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jul 27, 2009)

The Sordinos are GREAT! Loving this baby BIG time!!


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## choc0thrax (Jul 27, 2009)

WTF is Nick Phoenix potentially thinking about potentially pricing that lib at that guess price of $2000.00!!! Theoretically that guy could be a big douche. This calls for a long thread.


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## JohnG (Jul 27, 2009)

so we go from Pedro's hunch to Nick being a "big douche?" 

Come on choco. I realise you may be just your usual witty self with that but some people might read it the wrong way.

And Pedro, how could you know what a library that's not out yet is going to be priced? I would be surprised if Nick even knows, today, what it's going to be priced at.

EW's pricing strategy has moved more and more to accommodate new guys and hobbyists. $2k for strings doesn't fit that strategy, on the face of it.


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## nikolas (Jul 27, 2009)

I bet that EW will price the library $1999 and then the next month will have a 2 for 1 sale, or 50%, or a BOGOF or something! 

David is right: If it was $750 I would have bought LASS. Now that it's 999$ I bought it! Oh... wait! Whoops! :D

BTW, I"m jealous of people living on the other side of the pond! I'd like to have LASS NOW! (but have to wait until tomorrow according to Fedex... Still can't believe it will be here tomorrow)!


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## choc0thrax (Jul 27, 2009)

I didn't say he was a big douche.


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## sevaels (Jul 27, 2009)

> I don't want to rock the boat here, but if Andrew's library was $750, I would have already bought it.



:roll: o/~


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## dcoscina (Jul 27, 2009)

[quote:b9ba826442="RiffWraith @ Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:47 am"]Just say it - why does it have to be "the other company"? Why the secret? It's EastWest/QL.

Andy priced his lib - I am sure - on a few factors. One of them being how many units he expects to sell. He is not EW, nor VSL; he does not have (that I am aware) a plethora of other products that generate income, where if he falls short of his goal, it would be ok, because those other products can pick up "the slack". He has to try to at least break even. Personally, I hope he does really well here - he put a lot of had work into this and if this lib is as good as it seems, he deservò%F   ª\±%F   ª\²%F   ª\³%F   ª\´%F   ª\µ%F   ª\¶%F   ª\·%F   ª\¸%F   ª\¹%F   ª\º%F   ª\»%F   ª\¼%F   ª\½%F   ª\¾%F   ª\¿%F   ª\À%F   ª\Á%F   ª\Â%F   ª\Ã%F   ª\Ä%F   ª\Å%F   ª\Æ%F   ª\Ç%F   ª\È%F   ª\É%F   ª\Ê%F   ª\Ë%F   ª\Ì%F   ª\Í%F   ª\Î%F   ª\Ï%F   ª\Ð%F   ª\Ñ%F   ª\Ò%F   ª\Ó%F   ª\Ô%F   ª\Õ%G   ª\Ö%G   ª\×%G   ª\Ø%G   ª\Ù%G   ª\Ú%G   ª\Û%G   ª\Ü%G   ª\Ý%G   ª\Þ%G   ª\ß%G   ª\à%G   ª\á%G   ª\â%G   ª\ã%G   ª\ä%G   ª\å%G   ª\æ%G   ª\ç%G   ª\è%G   ª\é%G   ª\ê%G   ª\ë%G   ª\ì%G   ª\í%G   ª\î%G   ª\ï%G   ª\ð%G   ª\ñ%G   ª\ò%G   ª\ó%G   ª\ô%G   ª\õ%G   ª\ö%G   ª\÷%G   ª\ø%G   ª\ù%G   ª\ú%G   ª\û%G   ª\ü%G   ª\ý%G   ª\þ%G   ª\ÿ%G   ª] %G   ª]%G   ª]%G   ª]%G   ª]%G   ª]%G   ª]%G   ª]%G   ª]%G   ª]	%H   ª]
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## Hannesdm (Jul 27, 2009)

I haven't had much time to explore the library, but until now I'm VERY impressed!!
Apart from the great legato-script, the very easy to use A.R.T., ... what strikes me the most is the SOUND of LASS! Amazing!
It is by far the best sounding string library out there. I love my SISS, but this is a big step further! You can feel the players, hear the bows, ... 

There are some cons though:
-As we could hear in the demos, the tuning is not always good. I understand that it adds to the realism, but sometimes it is too much for my taste. If this happens at a session with real players, I would redo that passage.
-Some notes are louder than others, some errors in the legato samples,... But I'm sure these issues will be fixed in updates of the patches.

Again, I'm VERY impressed!


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## Peter Alexander (Jul 27, 2009)

dcoscina @ Mon Jul 27 said:


> germancomponist @ Mon Jul 27 said:
> 
> 
> > Demos please!
> ...



If I had a "wish" for LASS and Andrew it's that I wish for his sake he had been a little more "commercial" in his approach to describing this library. 

The sales specs of LASS are:

1. Matching solo string library (v1, v2, va, ce, ba)
2. Muted Strings (but no legato/staccato at this time)
3. Full sectional ensembles
4. mini-ensembles that can be built up to full ensembles enabling for the first time, more authentic string divisi then has been possible to date. These "mini-ensembles" allow for:

a. creating chamber-sized groups
b. creating divisi
c. creating full string ensembles
d. creating more authentic recording date string ensembles for singers

There's also the as-yet unspoken benefit of more accurate orchestral balancing since with these smaller ensembles, woodwinds and brass can be mixed to balance more easily. 

LASS is 16/16/12/10/8. This is a Mahler-sized string section which can easily accommodate 3 flutes, 3 oboes, 3 clarinets, 3 bassoons, etc. when written for and mixed properly.

When you value what you're getting $999 is a STEAL! 

IF LASS had been recorded in Europe, you could not have gotten it here for less than $1500 with the current exchange rate.


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## dcoscina (Jul 27, 2009)

Good points Peter.


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## RiffWraith (Jul 27, 2009)

Hannesdm @ Tue Jul 28 said:


> -As we could hear in the demos, the tuning is not always good. I understand that it adds to the realism, but sometimes it is too much for my taste. If this happens at a session with real players, I would redo that passage.



Can't you make adjustments, tho? There are several places to adjust pitch in Kontakt....


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## Shantar (Jul 27, 2009)

If *anyone* have shown us they can provide competitive prices that is EW. When thats said, I still think that LASS is cheap as hell with an introductory price at only $999. The demos sounds terrific, but to be honest I´m quite happy with the libraries I´ve already got so for now I´ve decided not to buy any new ones. :D


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## dcoscina (Jul 27, 2009)

nikolas @ Mon Jul 27 said:


> I bet that EW will price the library $1999 and then the next month will have a 2 for 1 sale, or 50%, or a BOGOF or something!
> 
> David is right: If it was $750 I would have bought LASS. Now that it's 999$ I bought it! Oh... wait! Whoops! :D
> 
> BTW, I"m jealous of people living on the other side of the pond! I'd like to have LASS NOW! (but have to wait until tomorrow according to Fedex... Still can't believe it will be here tomorrow)!



Nikolas, you have worked with string groups before- how does the LASS compare? I have been listening a lot to TWBB by Jonny Greenwood and I love how they recorded those strings. That's the sound I want to achieve in my mock-ups. 

Andrew, if you're perusing this thread, and if you are familiar with the score I'm talking about, do you think LASS is able to approximate this sound? My sense is that Greenwood did not record a huge string group- maybe mid-sized which is why everything sounds so detailed and tight. A lot of presence there too.

Would love more demos that focus on the short articulations. I use Symphobia and HALion Strings for short articulations because they sound the best to my ears of the libs that I currently own.


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## nikolas (Jul 27, 2009)

dcoscina @ Mon Jul 27 said:


> Nikolas, you have worked with string groups before- how does the LASS compare? I have been listening a lot to TWBB by Jonny Greenwood and I love how they recorded those strings. That's the sound I want to achieve in my mock-ups.


For the moment (judging from demos and user reviews) it sounds extremely well made.

You'll have to wait until my copy arrives and actually it could be very much longer, since I'm leaving on vacation on the 31st, so I may not have enough time to even install LASS, before I leave.

But based on the demos, I'd say that it's very very close to the real thing, when you are compairing it with amateur, or non full pro ensembles. It's got this "not 100% right" feeling (that EW has, for example) that makes me feel wonderful when listening to the demos. And the divisi work simply gives it another air. I have a feeling that you would be able to create this feeling of 'performers altering bowings midways' somehow with LASS, which would be the ultimate realistic feeling. 

This is the very first time that I've spent $1000 on a sample library. Never before. Gold, Gold xp pro, Choirs, various pianos, drums, basses, etc, were never above $500. LASS is the first "major major" library I'm getting. The sound makes me feel like this (along with other coincidental issues). In fact apart from the computer itself and mics and preamp nothing else in my studio is worth so much (ok, acoustic treatment as well!) <-Blind trust? Almost. Blind faith? Probably. To be confirmed? We'll see! Zealot talk? Almost definately! 

_____________________

As I've mentioned earlier I have plans for LASS.

If I had the time I would try to render an already recorded piece to have fun, but in all honesty I'm not that type of a guy, so I'll probably start new things, and it may take a while to use LASS after all... :-/


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## dcoscina (Jul 27, 2009)

Thanks Nikolas. I just jumped in. Pushed the "BUY" button. I think some of the discussion on Cubendo.com pushed me to commit. One, I like the sound. Two, aside from a little tuning issues from one of the chairs, I agree it has the most realistic feel to it. Three, and this was big, I honestly do not know when EW HS will be available and I'm working on a few low budget film scores now and need good strings NOW. Which means I still might jump at HS Gold when they come out...

Anyhow, I'm getting some coin for my b-day so some of this gets written off and the Canadian dollar is strong so I figured I would just jump in. I'm excited!


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## Thonex (Jul 27, 2009)

Hannesdm @ Mon Jul 27 said:


> I haven't had much time to explore the library, but until now I'm VERY impressed!!
> Apart from the great legato-script, the very easy to use A.R.T., ... what strikes me the most is the SOUND of LASS! Amazing!
> It is by far the best sounding string library out there. I love my SISS, but this is a big step further! You can feel the players, hear the bows, ...
> 
> ...



Hi Hannes,

Thanks so much for the kind words!! Truly appreciate it. Having worked on this for 18 months, it's easy for me to lose perspective... so it's nice to hear positive comments like this.

With regards to the "cons"... yeah... there are "things" that can be worked on. But at some point I have to release a Version 1.0. Otherwise... I'd be tweaking forever. Some of my beta team have told me not to alter the "out of tuneness" because it adds "reality" to the track. But... this is version 1.0... and based on general feedback... I can provide fixes and updates to the patches.. as well as entirely new patches and directions.

Cheers,

Andrew K


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## dcoscina (Jul 27, 2009)

Sounds like this will be my favorite library next to Symphobia (which I use every day and do not regret a single penny I spent for that either).

I cannot wait to employ some multi-part string writing like James Horner did in his earlier film scoring days.


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## gsilbers (Jul 27, 2009)

a question about the out tune-ness.. 

will it conflict with other string libraries? most specifically with symphobia

i mean, make it sound out of tune in a bad way? did any of the beta tester 
mentioned this?
or for those who have tried it


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## Stevie (Jul 27, 2009)

Craig Sharmat @ Mon Jul 27 said:


> some perspective here.
> 
> Neither library is going to sell out so you will always have an option of picking up either lib at a later date even if it is much later due to finances. We never know how such things as finances materialize over time, sometimes you run into an unexpected windfall or suddenly unexpected expenses hit and you are left scrambling. LASS is available today so if you have work that LASS could improve upon or motivate you I would highly consider getting it. If it is just a "want" because it is the new thing then no library is a smart purchase even if it is a fun one.



There were several factors that made me buy LASS.

1. Andrew's dedication for creating this lib with a lot of love to details
2. the sound and possibilities
3. the continuous improvement and development of the lib 
4. the introductory price

These 4 points convinced me and I know that I won't be disappointed.


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## Rob Elliott (Jul 27, 2009)

Stevie @ Mon Jul 27 said:


> Craig Sharmat @ Mon Jul 27 said:
> 
> 
> > some perspective here.
> ...




Valid points Stevie - I feel the same. I must say I have a '5th' reason. Because Andrew likes me best :wink: - he added a simple 'script' to my copy- *"fix Strings arrangement blunders*" - it will be tied into one of my controller's sliders so I can just leave it on 100% all the time.


Really above the call of duty, Andrew. o


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 27, 2009)

gsilbers, the answer is no - it doesn't conflict with other libraries. And it's not like the whole library is horribly out of tune.


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## Peter Alexander (Jul 27, 2009)

lee @ Mon Jul 27 said:


> This is just pure speculation, but Ive got a feeling someone (Andrew?) will make an "autodivisi/stringsarranger"-script so that one basically can use LASS like the symphobia ensembles, where you play the notes and the script decides which groups will play what. That way the ensembles will "divide" when playing chords etc..
> 
> 
> 
> /Johnny



What you described, which is a great idea BTW, may already be under U.S. Patent.


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## dannthr (Jul 27, 2009)

I don't think you can patent a KSP script.


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## RiffWraith (Jul 27, 2009)

dannthr @ Tue Jul 28 said:


> I don't think you can patent a KSP script.



Interesting...NI probably would be able to copyright a script that they themselves write and implement, but a user who is not paying licensing fees for such a script to the dev of the sw that they write the sript under, would most certainly not be able to copyright that script.

Cheers.


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## JohnG (Jul 27, 2009)

you can copyright a script. 

you can obtain a patent on an idea for a mechanism or process, so I am confident that Peter's scenario is possible.


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## StrangeCat (Jul 27, 2009)

Will there be an in-depth write-up in Virtual Instrument Magazine on LASS?


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## RiffWraith (Jul 27, 2009)

JohnG @ Tue Jul 28 said:


> you can copyright a script.



You can not copyright a script that was written utilizing and is intended to be used within someone else's sw, where that script is not a stand-alone excecutable application. Think Phil P's 'MEAP', which CAN be copywritten - the difference there is MEAP is a stand alone app that utilizes it's own code written by Phil. A Kontakt script would only utilize the code that already exists in the app - which was not written by the person writing the script.

Now, that's not to say that someone like Big Bob can not petition the copyright office and actually receive a notice of copyright, but whether or not that holds up in a court of law is an entirely different story.

Ok, back to LASS! o/~ 

Cheers.


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## Aaron Sapp (Jul 27, 2009)

Okay... I seriously cannot believe some people are complaining about the price of this library. Amazing. At the regular price, LASS would still be an absolute steal. At $999? Really? 

Let's think about this...

1. Three sections. All different players. Same articulations recorded for all three of these sections. 

2. Top-notch violinists with top-notch equipment in a top-notch recording environment with top-notch engineering. Top-notch. 

3. Best solo strings library to date. 

4. Great balance between dry/wet. Treats wonderfully to reverb. 

5. Bonus custom IR's specifically designed for this library.

6. Control 83 allows you to manipulate the length of the portamentos/glissandos. This is huge. HUGE! I can finally implement all the legato nuance I want. I can't rave about this feature enough. This opens up an absolute wealth of expression possibilities. Limitless really. 

7. Not only is the A.R.T. tool just friggin' cool to play with, it's a bit of a milestone in itself. You get to sequence convincing repetition figures on the fly without having to hassle around with time-stretching, finding pre-recorded phrases that somewhat match the tempo you're working with, etc. You simply press a keyswitch to select the phrase you want (or make your own if you like), press the sustain pedal, and play a line. Or a chord. Or whatever. Really that simple. Instant gratification.

8. Best sordinos west of the Mississippi. Or east. Gorgeous sound. The notion of Andrew implementing true-legato capability with these puppies in the future....... >8o 


For nearly a year I've seen many of the trials n' tribulations that Andrew has exchanged his thousands of man hours for. LASS reflects that, in spades. It's great to finally see it shipped off. 


All this and more for $999?


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## JohnG (Jul 27, 2009)

Why not? you can copyright music using other peoples' copyrighted, patented software, you can copyright the contents and chain of formulas within a spreadsheet using Excel. There are companies that make money selling content that can only be used with C++ or Excel or many other software programs.

If it's in fixed and tangible form, I don't know of any impediment to copyright.

Otherwise, anyone who wrote a script would be creating either property for NI or public domain intellectual property, including Big Bob or anyone else.


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## careyford (Jul 27, 2009)

I thought the price was a bargain. I'll probably be more convinced this time tomorrow when it's here and installed.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jul 27, 2009)

gsilbers @ Mon Jul 27 said:


> a question about the out tune-ness..
> 
> will it conflict with other string libraries? most specifically with symphobia
> 
> ...



Nick basically answered the question. I do work everyday and have used LASS about 8 months now in conjunction with other libs. Because the legato is great it glues my other libs together for those type of lines.


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## dcoscina (Jul 27, 2009)

I bet meshing LASS with VSL winds and brass sounds awesome. I like VSL strings but they are a little on the cold side.


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## germancomponist (Jul 27, 2009)

If you could copyright a script, then someone else could copyright an a-minoer-chord or playing a tremolo. :-D


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 27, 2009)

Peter is talking about Audio Impressions having patented automatic divisi. I'm not a lawyer, but to me it seems like AI's whole concept should be enforceable, but just splitting two incoming notes into two MIDI channels to create on-the-fly divisi couldn't possibly be.

That feature is built into Logic's environment, for heaven's sake. All you do is insert a Transformer object and select Note Splitter.

As an aside, there were controller keyboards with dynamic split points in the '80s. I really can't imagine how anyone could stake a claim to that.


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## Dan Selby (Jul 28, 2009)

Wivi also does auto-divisi. I can't see how it could possibly be patentable/copyrightable (he said with close to zero knowledge of US Patent law  ) Surely any new feature we see in a DAW or other software (which, as we know, usually gets adopted by competitors) would be similar in nature. Surely a chunk of code is protected IP but the resulting functionality of that code is open?


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## navidson (Jul 28, 2009)

These strings, man. These strings! I didn't finish the install until midnight, but was up until 3 AM just playing endless legato lines. They sound so alive and vibrant in a way I've never heard from a sample library before.


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## dannthr (Jul 28, 2009)

Copyright is not Patent--and you can't patent a common process, I believe it's arguable that divisi is a common process.

Script and programming, also, is not a mechanism.

If it were true, then you could patent video games, which you can't. You can patent the devices that are used to play video games in the same way that AI can patent a specific device that is used to perform this common process.


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## oldbrian (Jul 28, 2009)

Peter Alexander @ Tue Jul 28 said:


> lee @ Mon Jul 27 said:
> 
> 
> > This is just pure speculation, but Ive got a feeling someone (Andrew?) will make an "autodivisi/stringsarranger"-script so that one basically can use LASS like the symphobia ensembles, where you play the notes and the script decides which groups will play what. That way the ensembles will "divide" when playing chords etc..
> ...



I was about to say that noone in their right mind would allow to patent a trivial midi routing process but apparently I was wrong, they did get the stamp on the second try for their auto-divisi in 2006. It's strange that different fields of application and science have very different standards for the seriousness of patent applications...


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## dannthr (Jul 28, 2009)

Oldbrian, the patent office can be broken. The patent office is forbidden from approving designs for perpetual motion machines, but people keep trying to patent designs for them.

It just takes a clerk who is not paying attention, etc.

BTW, patents for perpetual motion machines have been approved and then retroactively denied after someone realized one thing and another person got fired, etc, etc.


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## tripit (Jul 28, 2009)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Jul 27 said:


> gsilbers, the answer is no - it doesn't conflict with other libraries. And it's not like the whole library is horribly out of tune.



I just started playing around with it yesterday and Nick is right. It blends fine with Symphobia. The tuning variation is mostly very mild, occasionally you get a note, mostly in the port or gliss mode that might stretch out a little more, but you can work around it if it's really an issue to you. I love the tuning, that's what makes it sound real.

Price wise - it's worth every penny. Stop moaning about the price. If you can't afford it, complaining about the price isn't going to change anything.


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## RiffWraith (Jul 28, 2009)

Imust bring this up again, as it appears to have fallen through the cracks...re: the tuning:

Can't you make adjustments, tho? There are several places to adjust pitch in Kontakt....


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## dcoscina (Jul 28, 2009)

tripit @ Tue Jul 28 said:


> Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Jul 27 said:
> 
> 
> > Price wise - it's worth every penny. Stop moaning about the price. If you can't afford it, complaining about the price isn't going to change anything.



Obviously it wasn't too much of a sticking point for me as I bought it yesterday. =o


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## Jwilson (Jul 28, 2009)

Quick question: 

Eagerly awaiting the delivery of LASS tomorrow - I bought two new Hard drives to spread LASS across, if my main comp can't handle it I can just switch one of the drives to my (old!) slave. 
Is it a case of just installing on one drive and then dragging across to the other? There isn't a special install path in order to split the library up?


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## tripit (Jul 28, 2009)

RiffWraith @ Tue Jul 28 said:


> Imust bring this up again, as it appears to have fallen through the cracks...re: the tuning:
> 
> Can't you make adjustments, tho? There are several places to adjust pitch in Kontakt....



Maybe Andrew will put out an update with some tuning tweaks for those who think it's too much. But I have to say that it's refreshing to have a library that sounds human and not spot on perfect. I think we have gotten so use to perfectly pitched strings that it's hard to get use to strings that aren't. Not much tolerance for anything varied, but that's not how real strings work. At least that's been my experience for what it's worth. 

Even the top string orchestras don't always nail the pitch. I have some stuff done by a top orchestra, and when you listen to the strings by themselves, you can hear all sorts of wandering. There are even a few spots where a note or two will really go south. That's just the way real strings are. With a real orchestra, you usually don't even have a chance to fix those. At least here you have some ability to tweak things - go to a different patch, hit a different velocity or blend it with another library if you find it that offensive.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jul 28, 2009)

Jwilson @ 28/7/2009 said:


> Is it a case of just installing on one drive and then dragging across to the other? There isn't a special install path in order to split the library up?



Andrew's working on that right now. Stay tuned (no pun intended). :wink:


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## JohnG (Jul 28, 2009)

tripit @ 28th July 2009 said:


> Even the top string orchestras don't always nail the pitch. I have some stuff done by a top orchestra, and when you listen to the strings by themselves, you can hear all sorts of wandering. There are even a few spots where a note or two will really go south.



very true



tripit @ 28th July 2009 said:


> With a real orchestra, you usually don't even have a chance to fix those. At least here you have some ability to tweak things - go to a different patch, hit a different velocity or blend it with another library if you find it that offensive.



also very true. I embrace those imperfections and believe, further, that Eric Persing's old Roland orchestral samples were good exactly because of that. Same for East West. It sounds more real to me in an ensemble.


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## Thonex (Jul 28, 2009)

Hi guys,

The tunings were done to my own threshold :D Personally, I find the tuning part of what makes LASS sound so real. But.. it's not all about "me" :D 

However, this is version 1.0... so of course things can be changed and refined. I'm going to wait for more users to weigh in on other things too.. and I'm guessing mid to late September I should have our first update.

Cheers,

Andrew K


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## interoctave (Jul 28, 2009)

Thonex @ Tue Jul 28 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> The tunings were done to my own threshold :D Personally, I find the tuning part of what makes LASS sound so real. But.. it's not all about "me" :D
> 
> ...



Andrew,

Please, whatever you do, don't take away any existing samples that are slightly out-of-tune. Even if we we not talking about strings, most audio engineers know the benefit of doubling and tripling tracks and changing the tuning (ever so slightly) to add more depth and breadth to the sound.

Personally, I like LASS tuning the way it is, but if there were any changes, I would hope that they don't do away with the samples that we have now.

And BTW, these "out of tune" strings really blend great when layered with other libraries such as E/W and VSL, and as such, I see this as another benefit.

- Robert Safir


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## Thonex (Jul 28, 2009)

interoctave @ Tue Jul 28 said:


> Thonex @ Tue Jul 28 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys,
> ...



Hi Robert... no... I won't do any destructive editing or tuning. Most things can be changed in Kontakt


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## sevaels (Jul 28, 2009)

I love the tuning.

This is a benchmark.

o-[][]-o


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## Niah (Jul 28, 2009)

I actually used to de-tune my other strings using the microtuning in Kontakt to give it a slighty more lively feel  

needless to say that im loving the tuning in LASS as it is, in fact I wouldn't probably noticed if people hadn't brought it up :roll:


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## windshore (Jul 28, 2009)

I just installed yesterday and have taken some quick tours. 

Number 1 impression is that the expressiveness is really by far the reason to have this library in your arsenal. It's really a treat to be able to have some REAL dynamics!

I have all the VSL Special Edition libraries and extensions and think LASS is the PERFECT compliment to that. It instantly seems to fill in a lot of holes as far as warmth, and expressiveness and, as good as the VSL articulations are, LASS feels like it works and can be convincing with virtually any kind of line at any tempo. The ensemble patches are AMAZING!

I haven't worked a lot with it yet, but share the feelings already expressed about the tuning. For the most part it's a real plus. I would love to always have the funky notes as an option! But, occasionally a real dog will haunt you. There are a couple of harmonics that are almost laughable! - I would like them fixed, but I want to keep them too. (I actually laughed - and that's worth a few bucks right there!)

You can tell that this is a relatively "young" library, but you're getting so much in V1 that it's really hard to imagine anyone being unhappy with it. I didn't realize how many unique solo instruments you get! It will be fun to just do some small pieces using all of the individual solo instruments.

Very Impressive V1 Andrew!


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## b2 (Jul 28, 2009)

Nice library! Great value too.

The ensemble tunings are fine but the 1st violinist is sliding into the tuning on many notes and while this can be a nice effect, I would prefer more precise tuning. Inherent character is a bonus especially in a solo context but an option for precise tuning would be a most welcome update.


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## Jwilson (Jul 28, 2009)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Jul 28 said:


> Jwilson @ 28/7/2009 said:
> 
> 
> > Is it a case of just installing on one drive and then dragging across to the other? There isn't a special install path in order to split the library up?
> ...




Any update on this? Would be good to know what to do when my shiny package arrives in a few hours time.


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## hbuus (Jul 29, 2009)

It's really, really exciting for me as a hobby musician to listen to the demos people are slowly coming up with, as they receive their copy of LASS. What's more, it makes me happy to see all the buzz you pro guys make about this library! It's interesting to watch the development of sample based libraries.

Looking forward to hearing more LASS-stuff from you guys! =o 

/Henrik


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## sarobin (Jul 29, 2009)

Another big thank-you from me Andrew - I had a quick play with LASS yesterday, by swapping the strings on an existing track I did. So much nicer! 

I just need to change my keyboard now, as my trusty Clavinova doesn't have a Mod Wheel :(


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## Jaap (Jul 29, 2009)

First impression is really great. Very playable. Great sound. I was scared about the tuning when I heard the first legato demos, but that is completely taken away. I absolutely love the first chair cello. I have written many pieces with cello in the past which were performed live and I made a quick mockup for oboe, harp and cello (see composition review section) and I am absolutely stunned by the performance. Very natural, very rich in sound and the portamento and legato are fantastic. 

ART tool is great and easy to fiddle around with. Didn't touch the thrills and sordinos yet, but no doubt it's great either.
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## Stevie (Jul 29, 2009)

Jaap, I completely second that.
You did a wonderful work Andrew!


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## Thonex (Jul 29, 2009)

I just want to thank you guys for all the kind words and emails. I'm truly humbled by the response. I don't want to get all "mushy" on the forum, but suffice it to say that some of the comments and emails touched me more than I expected and it only makes me want to make LASS better in the future. 

Thanks for your support... and I look forward to hearing how LASS grows up.

Cheers,

Andrew K

P.S. And my litte bug (below) appreciates it too!!


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## sarobin (Jul 30, 2009)

Hi Nikolas - that's useful info - just a (silly?) question: Where do you plug the Oxygen into? Does it go into the MIDI in of the piano, or straight into the PC (in which case I'm a bit stuck as I only have one MIDI in on my soundcard). 

Any help greatly appreciated, since it could save me £1500+ on a new keyboard


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## groove (Jul 30, 2009)

Well what can i say that wasn't already said about LASS...?

I worth waiting those last month for sure !! it's a great library and as a bonus from the amazing sounding I can really feel the user concept behind it ! I mean Andrew the way you are handling all this so far is way way better than what we have from big companies in terms of understanding the demands etc...although they did a great job so far I appreciate your approach much more (not only in the programing).

So I'm an happy camper 

/\~O


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## PolarBear (Jul 30, 2009)

sarobin @ Thu Jul 30 said:


> Hi Nikolas - that's useful info - just a (silly?) question: Where do you plug the Oxygen into? Does it go into the MIDI in of the piano, or straight into the PC (in which case I'm a bit stuck as I only have one MIDI in on my soundcard).
> 
> Any help greatly appreciated, since it could save me £1500+ on a new keyboard


The short answer: It's got an USB interface. Some other MIDI controllers have that too if you don't wanna stick with the Oxygen. Also some greater masterkeyboards allow for passing through another MIDI input to their MIDI output "layering" both together.


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## Rob Elliott (Jul 30, 2009)

Wonderful Andrew. Just breaking the service on patches as I am in the middle of a project (working in LASS as much as possible). Highlights for me

1. The tuning (VERY live) but not out of site. counters sterility in many libraries
2. The first chairs are just a VERY nice surprise. I can now see myself writing for MUCH smaller string choirs - convincingly. Really ads character to the divisi samples (C is my favority across the board.)
3. They blend well with VSL. Do many things VSL doesn and happy to report I am not taking VSL off of my drives. Another reminder that having Strings options is key.
4. The Legato LP speed P patches are going to be a 'go to' patch (all four groups.) Having control over portamento has been something I have wanted for 6 years.
5. The ensemble patches are great for sketching out cues.


LOVE TO SEE:


1. ADSR section to increase sustains releases (CC controllable)
2. More String FXs
3. Sordino legatos



Great job Andrew - looking forward to anything else you have up your sleeves.

Rob


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## ozmorphasis (Jul 30, 2009)

In addition to all of the other praise that is going around, I would like to point out that for me it is especially great that a developer finally captured the timbre of the violas in not only flattering light, but more importantly, in a way that integrates within the larger string choir as the violas ought to. 

Despite all of the great viola jokes that tear that poor section's world apart, it is in my opinion one of the most important "glues" to hold the strings together, especially when doing things in a more traditional orchestration as opposed to the many orchestra-as-a-rock-band styles that one hears a lot in trailers, game music, and Zimmer-ish scores. Admittedly, in the latter styles this problem is not as much of a ....problem. 

So far, Andrew's violas are seamless for that type of writing. MAny thanks AK!

O


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## Mahlon (Jul 30, 2009)

ozmorphasis @ Thu Jul 30 said:


> In addition to all of the other praise that is going around, I would like to point out that for me it is especially great that a developer finally captured the timbre of the violas in not only flattering light, but more importantly, in a way that integrates within the larger string choir as the violas ought to.
> 
> Despite all of the great viola jokes that tear that poor section's world apart, it is in my opinion one of the most important "glues" to hold the strings together, especially when doing things in a more traditional orchestration as opposed to the many orchestra-as-a-rock-band styles that one hears a lot in trailers, game music, and Zimmer-ish scores. Admittedly, in the latter styles this problem is not as much of a ....problem.
> 
> ...



Hear, hear! And I think the violas are my favorite patches.

Mahlon


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## Ed (Jul 30, 2009)

Thonex @ Wed Jul 29 said:


> I just want to thank you guys for all the kind words and emails. I'm truly humbled by the response. I don't want to get all "mushy" on the forum, but suffice it to say that some of the comments and emails touched me more than I expected and it only makes me want to make LASS better in the future.
> 
> Thanks for your support... and I look forward to hearing how LASS grows up.
> 
> ...



Hurry up and make LASS 2 and Woodwinds and then Brass. Come on come on, and I want a video blog detailing your exploits. and by exploits I mean sample library related, unless you manage to film Megan Fox in the shower or something from accross the street.


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## Frédéric P (Jul 31, 2009)

I received my LASS copy here in St Andrews (UK) a couple of days ago :D but I will install it when I will be back in Paris... in September... Still have to wait :( ....


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## gsilbers (Jul 31, 2009)

love the art patches!! installation went all good. the only issue is that kontakt 3.5 is crakling up and i have 13 gigs to spare!!! 
so its not an LASS issue.


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## Waywyn (Jul 31, 2009)

*Lol* It's really funny!

Guys moan about that all libs sound so stiff, so perfect, so liveless ... then there is a bit of out of tune character stuff going on and everyone is whining and mimimimimiimim ...

I think all guys here who regularly participate on recording sessions can absolutely agree that the orchester is NEVER completely in tune ... and this is what makes it sound more alive than anything else.

I remember when I hit my first live recording session I was having one side of my mouth constantly going down because I was so used to perfect sample/studio tuning ...


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## dcoscina (Jul 31, 2009)

I can recommend the Korg NanoKontrol to those who do not have a lot of programmable sliders. I have a KX8 which is not bad for realtime controllers but I still use the NanoKontrol for some of the other CC's plus I do not care for the dials on the KX to affect realtime changes.


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## chimuelo (Jul 31, 2009)

Colin O'Malleys Reverie is a great sounding demo.
LASS is the string library for me.
I am still licking my wounds for the price I paid for SISS, VSL and Miraslavs' in Gigastudio way back when.
999 is a sore dick deal for sure.
I look forward to buying this.
Beautiful work Brotha' Man Thonex...


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## stevenson-again (Aug 1, 2009)

> IF LASS had been recorded in Europe, you could not have gotten it here for less than $1500 with the current exchange rate.



and then some!

BTW am i missing something? i cannot find the cello trills - are they there?

another thing missing: sul pont...

that really should be covered for an update. sul pont, and sul pont tremelo. we can emulate the sul pont trills if the legatos are good enough by simply playing them.


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## Thonex (Aug 1, 2009)

stevenson-again @ Sat Aug 01 said:


> > IF LASS had been recorded in Europe, you could not have gotten it here for less than $1500 with the current exchange rate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi stevenson-again,

You the cello trills are not there. They were planned, but the cellos took longer to record the other articulations (namely the legatos, and ports) abd I had to make a decision. I knew I had captured the violas trills... so in a pinch I knew we could use those.

Re: Sul ponticello... yeah... I had to make some hard decisions about what made it into the articulation list with the session time I had booked. 
_
"we can emulate the sul pont trills if the legatos are good enough by simply playing them."_

As a general observation, emulating sectional trills with legato patches doesn't seem to work because everyone trills at their own tempo.

Thanks for the input.

Cheers,

Andrew K


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## stevenson-again (Aug 1, 2009)

well there you are andrew - a good opportunity to update the library in future and make some more money from it - i for one would gladly pay for an update with these things.

in the mean time, is there a way to include trills from another library but use that very clever script that chooses the correct diatonic trill dependent on key?


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