# Epic cover art for epic songs - legality



## gsilbers (Jun 15, 2017)

I was wondering if its just ok to find one of those "epic images" in google and use it as cover art on a track that is uploaded to youtube. similar to this:





Or are these guys licensing it? Or not monetizing?

I see some of the bigger companies using some of theirs but sometimes its other cover art. Then there are random channels that do use other images in google and i dont think they are buying a license for it. Im guessing most of the time is just uploading whatever and "maybe" they wil strike out?


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## rrichard63 (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm interested in the question as well but know nothing about it. Meanwhile, in the context of legality, I love the notion of "covert art" in the subject line.


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## d.healey (Jun 15, 2017)

If you're marking money from it you either need to license it or have the permission of the copyright holder, otherwise it's copyright infringement.


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## mouse (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm uploading a video to youtube. I can just take any music I randomly find on Google and add it to the video right? 

Hey I could just use your music in my video and not buy a license for it...oh...wait...


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## SillyMidOn (Jun 15, 2017)

"Covert art" hm, sounds intriguing, art created by cold war spies....


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## dannymc (Jun 15, 2017)

SillyMidOn said:


> "Covert art" hm, sounds intriguing, art created by cold war spies....



ha ha very good. 

Danny


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## gsilbers (Jun 15, 2017)

rrichard63 said:


> I'm interested in the question as well but know nothing about it. Meanwhile, in the context of legality, I love the notion of "covert art" in the subject line.


Ha! I fixed in the body of the email and forgo about the subject line. maybe wil get more views and responses from the OCD guys


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## gsilbers (Jun 15, 2017)

d.healey said:


> If you're marking money from it you either need to license it or have the permission of the copyright holder, otherwise it's copyright infringement.



Correct. which is why I am asking. I don't think those channels could afford some any epic art licences.


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## gsilbers (Jun 15, 2017)

mouse said:


> I'm uploading a video to youtube. I can just take any music I randomly find on Google and add it to the video right?
> 
> Hey I could just use your music in my video and not buy a license for it...oh...wait...



exactly.. therefore.. whats going on with these?


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## gsilbers (Jun 15, 2017)

SillyMidOn said:


> "Covert art" hm, sounds intriguing, art created by cold war spies....


darn it. I cant change it now


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## d.healey (Jun 15, 2017)

gsilbers said:


> Correct. which is why I am asking. I don't think those channels could afford some any epic art licences.


Well your answer is one of three options - either they can afford it (you can license artwork pretty cheap), they have permission of the copyright holder, or they are infringing the copyright. Not all of them are necessarily doing the same thing though but those are the only options.

Looking at the top link you posted it seems that Audiomachine is a established company and should have no problem licensing art work.


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## dannymc (Jun 15, 2017)

gsilbers said:


> darn it. I cant change it now



you can, just click on the thread tools button in the top right hand side of your post. there's an option in there to change the title headers. 

Danny


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## gsilbers (Jun 15, 2017)

dannymc said:


> you can, just click on the thread tools button in the top right hand side of your post. there's an option in there to change the title headers.
> 
> Danny


thanks1 I was going into editing mode.


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## gsilbers (Jun 15, 2017)

d.healey said:


> Well your answer is one of three options - either they can afford it (you can license artwork pretty cheap), they have permission of the copyright holder, or they are infringing the copyright. Not all of them are necessarily doing the same thing though but those are the only options.
> 
> Looking at the top link you posted it seems that Audiomachine is a established company and should have no problem licensing art work.



Licensed cheaply?!
Ive been having a hard time doing this. its either costly or hard to find the rights holder.
Any idea where to do this? I tried deviantart and its a mess.


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## Axiom (Jun 15, 2017)

There's two methods I feel you could go for:

1. Purchasing stock through something like Shutterstock. There are some fairly good stuff on there and the prices are not too bad.

Or 

2. You can use images that are listed as Creative Commons. Search Creative Commons Flickr to get the ball rolling.

Unfortunately, both may be lacking in the ceartain high quality epic image you are looking for. I guess the arguement would be, just as we spend a lot of time on our composing, an artist has spent a lot of time on that artwork. 

Contact artists through deviant art as well as they be a bit more willing to license for a small fee or publicity.


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## kurtvanzo (Jun 15, 2017)

d.healey said:


> Well your answer is one of three options - either they can afford it (you can license artwork pretty cheap), they have permission of the copyright holder, or they are infringing the copyright. Not all of them are necessarily doing the same thing though but those are the only options.
> 
> Looking at the top link you posted it seems that Audiomachine is a established company and should have no problem licensing art work.



There is a forth option- just like in music they can commission a piece. Find art you like, find out who the artist is, contact him to make a custom piece of artwork for you. It will cost a bit more ($500+) but with the right artist you can have anything you want, and you can be specific (ie futuristic warriors that are 200' tall). Granted, a bit pricey for most people, but for those with money, it's a great option.

But def a cheaper option is a stock house. In addition to those mentioned, Getty images and others allow you to license a photo or artwork at a reasonable price nowadays. I would suggest doing searches for stock artwork websites until you find a look/image that will work for you. It use to be more expensive, but now with so many people looking for stock shots (including video) the prices have dropped considerably.


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## gsilbers (Jun 15, 2017)

I tried those stock options and the quality is def not up to par.


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## mwarsell (Jun 15, 2017)

Why not do what I do? Find an artist on Deviantart whose style compliments your tracks, contact him/her if it's ok to use a certain image and if he says yes then remember to credit the artist in the yt desc.

Both get publicity. The artist must also like your music I think so link him the track tol.


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## gsilbers (Jun 15, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> Why not do what I do? Find an artist on Deviantart whose style compliments your tracks, contact him/her if it's ok to use a certain image and if he says yes then remember to credit the artist in the yt desc.
> 
> Both get publicity. The artist must also like your music I think so link him the track tol.



Interesting, I usually get the cold shoulder. you just say if its ok to use and they don't ask for money?


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## J-M (Jun 15, 2017)

What mwarsell said. I have been using pictures from deviantart (there are some really talented people there) for a while now and in most cases I get the artist's permission to use his/her work...sometimes I even get a new fan...so there's that.


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## Zhao Shen (Jun 15, 2017)

I feel like these artists are in the same boat as us composers, except worse. People are much more willing to appropriate pictures, and it's much harder/impossible to keep track of.

So yeah, just treat it as if you were asking to use someone else's music.


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## d.healey (Jun 15, 2017)

Yeah DeviantArt and stock sites is what I was thinking of. Just send the artist a message on deviant art or leave them a comment. Another option is use some non-"EPIC" art, then maybe you'll stand out from the herd  You could always commission a piece from an artist, one I recommend is - http://kokenunezgomez.com/portfolio/ - I've worked with him on several Kontakt design projects.


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## mwarsell (Jun 15, 2017)

gsilbers said:


> Interesting, I usually get the cold shoulder. you just say if its ok to use and they don't ask for money?


Sometimes I don't get a reply. The artist might not be active anymore. Sometimes they ask which image and if that is scenery from a game or something, then they say no. Sometimes they decline if it's for free. Remember to write nicely about their art and remind them that they get credits - a hotlink to their web site or something.


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## Kejero (Jun 16, 2017)

gsilbers said:


> I was wondering if its just ok to find one of those "epic images" in google and use it as cover art on a track that is uploaded to youtube.


No.

And it doesn't matter if whatever you want to use it for makes you money or not. What matters is if you intend to make your work available publicly. You can't use an existing work without permission from the copyright holder (which is the original creator, unless the work is for hire, or they sold the copyright).


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## gsilbers (Jun 16, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> Sometimes I don't get a reply. The artist might not be active anymore. Sometimes they ask which image and if that is scenery from a game or something, then they say no. Sometimes they decline if it's for free. Remember to write nicely about their art and remind them that they get credits - a hotlink to their web site or something.



I was able to get a few replies.
Some where very cool about it. knew exactly what I was doing and just said, sure just give me credit. Or don't monetize please and give credit. OR no answer at all.
Others where a little more skeptical and mentioned lawyers and what not. Which is weird if I am asking permission and opened a line of dialogue. but oh well, interesting experience. I feel most of the time those channels are just grabbing images and using them without permission. Im guessing most are just fans and underestimate the copyright issues and value for the artist. OR just think that they would just risk the copyright strike from youtube and no harm done. But there are others that do ask for permission or pay a license.


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## gsilbers (Jun 16, 2017)

Kejero said:


> No.
> 
> And it doesn't matter if whatever you want to use it for makes you money or not. What matters is if you intend to make your work available publicly. You can't use an existing work without permission from the copyright holder (which is the original creator, unless the work is for hire, or they sold the copyright).



hopefully you saw my other posts in these threads.
kinda obvious I am not doing it and understand copyright issues.


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## gsilbers (Jun 16, 2017)

Zhao Shen said:


> I feel like these artists are in the same boat as us composers, except worse. People are much more willing to appropriate pictures, and it's much harder/impossible to keep track of.
> 
> So yeah, just treat it as if you were asking to use someone else's music.



Im guessing you mentioned it because there is audio tracking software. right?
I know there is for movies, I wonder why not images.
also the fact that if you search in google for copyright free images you will find very obvious examples of copyright images. basically someone downloads them and re uploads them saying its copyrights free and gogole wouldn't know.
these tech companies are just taking over artists rights all over.... which has been a theme on mine on numerous posts.


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## Puzzlefactory (Jun 16, 2017)

What about audio jungles parent site? Don't they have an art/photo section? I'm sure their prices would be pretty cheap (if the music license prices are anything to go by)...


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## gsilbers (Jun 16, 2017)

Puzzlefactory said:


> What about audio jungles parent site? Don't they have an art/photo section? I'm sure their prices would be pretty cheap (if the music license prices are anything to go by)...


I did try out that a while back. turns out I almost licensed a mayor video game image until a friend pointed out that's a famous video game image... and somehow someone is selling it there and envato market.
Also, the images in those places are not as good. I think its like the audio side. not that good royalty free music.


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## gsilbers (Jun 16, 2017)

in general I feel that art world might want to figure out more easier ways to license images. these are amazing artwork that could be generating income for them in other random ways besides waiting to be hired by a video game company.. or however else they make full time money. Then again, we have music libraries and some outlets but im guessing they would have to also go through the same process if they wanted to license our music.


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## mwarsell (Jun 17, 2017)

gsilbers said:


> in general I feel that art world might want to figure out more easier ways to license images. these are amazing artwork that could be generating income for them in other random ways besides waiting to be hired by a video game company.. or however else they make full time money. Then again, we have music libraries and some outlets but im guessing they would have to also go through the same process if they wanted to license our music.


I guess all the hottest trailer libs should co-operate with the 'like-minded' artists who would draw amazing custom art for their audio.


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## Kejero (Jun 17, 2017)

gsilbers said:


> hopefully you saw my other posts in these threads.


Nope, but I did see some of the answers and just wanted to point out that it's a common misconception that "if you're making money from it, you need permission". That "if" is completely irrelevant. I see a lot of that advice going around... So no worries, not judging you, just answering the original question.


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## gsilbers (Jun 17, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> I guess all the hottest trailer libs should co-operate with the 'like-minded' artists who would draw amazing custom art for their audio.



for some reason i think we are more aware of them that they are of us. 

those art guys seem to be more in tune with video game and concept art for them or movies.


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## Rv5 (Jun 17, 2017)

Reach out and ask! I've seen a few amazing pieces of artwork around and only used them if I've been given permission and/or have been able to afford a license for use:





I found the artist on Deviant art and sent a message. For a Doctor Who Theme cover I did I found an amazing Doctor Who desktop - through some searching I managed to find the person on Reddit and again he gave permission. I think we owe it to creators and ourselves to always do everything we can to ask, and if you can't get an answer don't use the image and move on. We're lucky to be able to reach out to artists and each other (Deviant Art, Reddit, email, websites, Instagram, Facebook, SnapChat etc) directly. Otherwise you're just using someone's artwork without their permission...


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## Rv5 (Jun 17, 2017)

gsilbers said:


> for some reason i think we are more aware of them that they are of us.
> 
> those art guys seem to be more in tune with video game and concept art for them or movies.



Two Steps From Hell fans are to blame for this trend I believe! Back when TSFH were industry release only, people were sharing their music through file sharing sites etc, and eventually uploads to YouTube began coupled with 'epic/fantasy imagery', this was back in some of the earlier years of YouTube. TSFH eventually made their public releases and of course fans loved it. Other companies followed suit - the 'epic orchestral' music genre became huge. There were public trailer releases before but nothing to the scale or impact of TSFH (that I'm aware of). Community driven sharing and trends resulted in the use of epic images with epic trailer music. Computer games, epic music and epic fantasy/action art + YouTube!


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## J-M (Jun 17, 2017)

Rv5 said:


> Reach out and ask! I've seen a few amazing pieces of artwork around and only used them if I've been given permission and/or have been able to afford a license for use:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How do you get that waveform in those videos? Adobe After Effects? Nice music, btw.


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## Rv5 (Jun 17, 2017)

MrLinssi said:


> How do you get that waveform in those videos? Adobe After Effects? Nice music, btw.



Ah thanks! Yes After Effects, if I recall correctly it's the particles effect/plugin. I'm a sucker for spending hours watching YouTube tutorials - these are some in my history so must've used these:


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## R. Soul (Jun 17, 2017)

I usually find images on Dreamstime or iStockphoto.
Dreamstime is cheaper but probably also of lower standard. It's more photos and photo manipulated pictures than actual drawings and painting though. 
You can usually get an image for less than £10 though.
But if you need a digital painting like the one in the OP, they are no match for Deviant Art.


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## J-M (Jun 17, 2017)

Rv5 said:


> Ah thanks! Yes After Effects, if I recall correctly it's the particles effect/plugin. I'm a sucker for spending hours watching YouTube tutorials - these are some in my history so must've used these:




I knew it. I tried to search how to make something like that with Da Vinci Resolve (free edition) but couldn't find anything... Guess I should suck it up and start subscribing to Adobe...or find an alternative that does the same thing, not a fan of subscription models.


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## Rv5 (Jun 17, 2017)

MrLinssi said:


> I knew it. I tried to search how to make something like that with Da Vinci Resolve (free edition) but couldn't find anything... Guess I should suck it up and start subscribing to Adobe...or find an alternative that does the same thing, not a fan of subscription models.



The subscription models I don't know where I sit with them - I think Adobe used to cost thousands so by breaking it up makes it accessible I suppose. The tools in the Adobe Suit are incredible and have been worth the expense, it's a very powerful tool kit you'd get. Not too aware of what alternatives are out there as been on the Adobe train for a while.

(Sorry for off-topic!)


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## gsilbers (Jun 17, 2017)

MrLinssi said:


> How do you get that waveform in those videos? Adobe After Effects? Nice music, btw.



There also some premade you can buy at envato market and you only drop the track and has some simple paramter changes.


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## gsilbers (Jun 17, 2017)

Rv5 said:


> The subscription models I don't know where I sit with them - I think Adobe used to cost thousands so by breaking it up makes it accessible I suppose. The tools in the Adobe Suit are incredible and have been worth the expense, it's a very powerful tool kit you'd get. Not too aware of what alternatives are out there as been on the Adobe train for a while.
> 
> (Sorry for off-topic!)


i do have mixed feelings about the adobe cloud sucbription. Its a good value if you need them and cool to have it once in a while but sucks that they dont give the chance to buy it out right. and also, its the hugest hassle to unsubcribe.


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## kurtvanzo (Jun 17, 2017)

MrLinssi said:


> I knew it. I tried to search how to make something like that with Da Vinci Resolve (free edition) but couldn't find anything... Guess I should suck it up and start subscribing to Adobe...or find an alternative that does the same thing, not a fan of subscription models.



You could try this if your using final cut pro:
http://store.pixelfilmstudios.com/product/fcpx-audio-visualizer/


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## J-M (Jun 18, 2017)

kurtvanzo said:


> You could try this if your using final cut pro:
> http://store.pixelfilmstudios.com/product/fcpx-audio-visualizer/



I'm on Windows and planning to stay there. :D Anyways, didn't mean to hijack the thread, sorry...Unless someone has found an alternative solution that I didn't find after heavy amounts of googling... 

EDIT: Found some alternatives, yay!


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