# Dorico Available from October 19



## Guillermo Navarrete (Oct 12, 2016)

Hello all,

We have a date, on the *19th of October,* *Dorico* will be available on our online shop and at all *Steinberg* distributors and local dealers. Built from the ground up by musicians for musicians, Dorico is like having an intelligent assistant by your side.

On the evening of *Tuesday 18 October from 7pm (London time)*, we will be holding a special event at which *Daniel Spreadbury* will be giving a public introduction to Dorico in London.

If you would like to watch our introduction live event in London, don’t forget to *subscribe* to the:

Dorico YouTube Channel >

More information >

Best regards,
GN


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## Musicam (Oct 12, 2016)

Cool, special introductory price?


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## StrezovSampling (Oct 12, 2016)

Can't wait!!!


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## jamwerks (Oct 12, 2016)

Awesome!


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## Guillermo Navarrete (Oct 12, 2016)

Hello,



Musicam said:


> Cool, special introductory price?



Only for users that purchase the crossgrade. 

Best regards,
GN


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## shnootre (Oct 12, 2016)

Well there be a 30-day free trial (as Finale and Sibelius offer)? Many of us crossgrade peeps have a lot of learning curve under our belts w our current program, but are definitely Dorico-curious.


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## Guillermo Navarrete (Oct 12, 2016)

Hello,



shnootre said:


> Well there be a 30-day free trial (as Finale and Sibelius offer)? Many of us crossgrade peeps have a lot of learning curve under our belts w our current program, but are definitely Dorico-curious.



As with all Steinberg products the trial version will be available between 4 to 5 weeks after the main release, the crossgrade offer will run until March 31, 2017. 

So you will have plenty of time to test Dorico.

Best regards,
GN


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## Musicam (Oct 12, 2016)

Hello Guillermo, its a pleasure, can you reveal the price of Dorico? Thank you!


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## Guillermo Navarrete (Oct 12, 2016)

Hello,



Musicam said:


> Hello Guillermo, its a pleasure, can you reveal the price of Dorico? Thank you!



The exact prices will be announced on the day of release. 

Best regards,
GN


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## dcoscina (Oct 12, 2016)

Guillermo Navarrete said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Probably will grab this as I own both Finale and Sibelius (and seldom use either). 

One question- I know that the playback sounds are from Halion Symphonic Orchestra (which I used to use all the time- it was a very capable library for its time) but I'm curious if there are any plans to develop Dorico's own personal integrated library like Notion or Overture have. 

Thanks kindly..


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## shnootre (Oct 12, 2016)

Guillermo Navarrete said:


> Hello,
> 
> The exact prices will be announced on the day of release.
> 
> ...



This is all very exciting. But does this mean that the originally published prices (I think it was around $299 for the intro crossgrade) were not accurate?


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## fratveno (Oct 13, 2016)

Guillermo Navarrete said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi,
I assume that orders placed for the Crossgrade offer will involve manual verification/handling of the supplied proof of Finale or Sibelius ownership? Say you receive thousands of such orders next wednesday, how long do you expect it to take for the client to receive the activation code?


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## jamwerks (Oct 13, 2016)

Yeah, there's a great soundset I purchased for Sibelius (forgot the name). Would be nice if that worked for also!


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## LFO (Oct 13, 2016)

I use Finale and I get tired of composing in Finale, exporting the MIDI, importing the MIDI into Cubase and then spending hours and hours editing the MIDI. Will Dorico eliminate the need to do this? In other words, how deep does MIDI editing go? (Tempo track? Automation curves? Automation moves with notes? Etc.) If I can score and get the exact MIDI performance I want behind it I'm sold.


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## Guillermo Navarrete (Oct 13, 2016)

Hello, 



fratveno said:


> Hi,
> I assume that orders placed for the Crossgrade offer will involve manual verification/handling of the supplied proof of Finale or Sibelius ownership? Say you receive thousands of such orders next wednesday, how long do you expect it to take for the client to receive the activation code?



Unfortunately I cannot say, because most of these will be available through your local dealer, distributor, and our online shop which is handle by our business partner ASKNET... so, you local music dealer might not take that long. 



> One question- I know that the playback sounds are from Halion Symphonic Orchestra (which I used to use all the time- it was a very capable library for its time) but I'm curious if there are any plans to develop Dorico's own personal integrated library like Notion or Overture have.



And this library it's still very capable as it also offers VST expressions and supports Expression maps, why develop a library when we already have one. It will also support VST 3 so you can use your own library as long as it supports the latest technology. 

Best regards,
GN


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## fratveno (Oct 13, 2016)

Guillermo Navarrete said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



THanks for you reply, but I was thinking of crossgrade orders placed in your online shop. Haven't seen any offers or dealers at these shores. As an independent notation consultant, I'd like to have it asap, since clients are asking questions already...


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## Prockamanisc (Oct 13, 2016)

Will it require a dongle? That was one of my feature requests. I rather prefer to work on the couch when doing copy work, and having a dongle sticking out is a liability.


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## Daryl (Oct 13, 2016)

Prockamanisc said:


> Will it require a dongle? That was one of my feature requests. I rather prefer to work on the couch when doing copy work, and having a dongle sticking out is a liability.


Yes, and no. You can have a soft eLicense, rather than putting the licence on a dongle, but you can't keep transferring from one sort to another.


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## Guillermo Navarrete (Oct 14, 2016)

Hello,



Prockamanisc said:


> Will it require a dongle? That was one of my feature requests. I rather prefer to work on the couch when doing copy work, and having a dongle sticking out is a liability.



This has already been replied by Daryl, thank you Daryl. As he said it will be soft-eLicenser based and you can also run it on the USB-eLicenser. 

Best regards,
GN


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## Musicam (Oct 14, 2016)

Where can I watch a video of Dorico, how it works? Thanks!


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## Guillermo Navarrete (Oct 14, 2016)

Hello, 



Musicam said:


> Where can I watch a video of Dorico, how it works? Thanks!



The Tutorials will be available on the Dorico YouTube channel on the day of release, for the moment you can watch the interview with Daniel where he shows a lot of the software: 



Best regards,
GN


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## Musicam (Oct 14, 2016)

Tnahk you!


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## NoamL (Oct 14, 2016)

Some of those shortcuts are hella impressive.


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## ag75 (Oct 14, 2016)

Guillermo Navarrete said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"We used to work together on other scoring software in the past."


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## BachN4th (Oct 14, 2016)

Is it the 19th yet?

Is there a specific time of day (and in which timezone) that sales will go live -- not that I'm excited or anything.


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## Maximvs (Oct 15, 2016)

I am wondering why there is no special discounted price for Cubase or Nuendo users...or am I missing something?

Cheers, Max


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## Daryl (Oct 15, 2016)

Massimo said:


> I am wondering why there is no special discounted price for Cubase or Nuendo users...or am I missing something?
> 
> Cheers, Max


Probably because neither Cubase or Nuendo are notation programs, and therefore not in competition with Dorico.


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## Lassi Tani (Oct 15, 2016)

@Guillermo Navarrete As a student, would I get a student discount from the crossgrade price from Sibelius to Dorico?


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## tack (Oct 15, 2016)

I am also interested in a crossgrade discount from MuseScore to Dorico.


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## Daryl (Oct 15, 2016)

tack said:


> I am also interested in a crossgrade discount from MuseScore to Dorico.


I bet you are. Shame you won't get one though.


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## prodigalson (Oct 15, 2016)

Guillermo Navarrete said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I kind of found this to be a difficult interview to watch! The interviewer doesn't seem to let poor Daniel finish a single thought. As soon as he finds something in what he's saying to latch on to he just blasts right on with a new question.


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## tack (Oct 15, 2016)

Daryl said:


> I bet you are. Shame you won't get one though.


Couldn't hurt to ask.


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## koolkeys (Oct 15, 2016)

I'm extremely interested in this, but I'm really curious if the crossgrade price will go down. Sibelius and Finale both offer a $199 crossgrade from the competition, but this is supposedly $299? Is that correct? If so, that is probably higher than I am comfortable paying. I use Cubase Pro 8 as well. So will there be any other options that don't cost as much? Would love to see a little more of a break on this.

It does look awesome though, and seems to have a better workflow based on the videos. So I'm excited to see how it is first hand. But with all the money invested elsewhere, I couldn't justify the current crossgrade. 

Brent


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## fratveno (Oct 16, 2016)

The Finale crossgrade price is actually $149... The final Dorico prices will apparently be revealed just prior to release. For people interested in playback it's worth noting that version 1 only supports the Halion SE2 and Symphonic Orchestra. The announced expression map system is not implemented yet, and there is also no MIDI out...


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## rgames (Oct 16, 2016)

I'm excited to see where Steinberg goes with this - hopefully they're fully committed to it. I'm a Finale user and it feels like that software has been basically unchanged for the last 10-15 years. The ability to start from scratch should make for a lot of exciting new approaches.

My guess is, though, it'll be v 4.0 or so before it'll really replace Finale or the like. But I like what I see so far.

rgames


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## koolkeys (Oct 16, 2016)

fratveno said:


> The Finale crossgrade price is actually $149... The final Dorico prices will apparently be revealed just prior to release. For people interested in playback it's worth noting that version 1 only supports the Halion SE2 and Symphonic Orchestra. The announced expression map system is not implemented yet, and there is also no MIDI out...


Yeah, that makes it even more lopsided. I didn't realize the crossgrade was that low (I started with Finale so have never had to crossgrade to it). 

I know they said that Dorico pricing will be revealed at launch, but I'm fairly certain I saw somewhere that the pricing for crossgrades would be $299. I can't find it on the Steinberg site, but I had done a search in Google and in the search results, the Steinberg website search description listed that price for crossgrades. Now it seems to not show up any longer. So either they accidentally revealed it, or they are still deciding. 

I HOPE I am wrong. If they can do less than $200, or ideally less than $150, they might have me instantly. Otherwise, it isn't an essential need since when it comes to the notation itself, there is nothing I can't do with my current tools. I would only be buying for the workflow and better integration with Cubase.

I did see that it will be supporting VST3, so maybe not just Halion and SO? Or did they delay that feature? Of course, I also read that they may support select VST2 instruments, such as Kontakt. But then again, nothing official has been posted on their website. So it is all just hearsay and speculation on my part.

Brent


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## Christof (Oct 16, 2016)

Anyone knows if they will give us a demo/30 days trial version?
This would be quite reasonable for a brand new product like this.


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## dcoscina (Oct 16, 2016)

I'm interested in Dorico but seeing that I have Notion 6, Overture 5, Sibelius 7.5 and Finale 2011, compounded with their crossgrade price, I will hold off for a while.


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## fratveno (Oct 16, 2016)

Christof said:


> Anyone knows if they will give us a demo/30 days trial version?
> This would be quite reasonable for a brand new product like this.



The trial version will be available 4-5 weeks after release...


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## shnootre (Oct 16, 2016)

fratveno said:


> The Finale crossgrade price is actually $149... The final Dorico prices will apparently be revealed just prior to release. For people interested in playback it's worth noting that version 1 only supports the Halion SE2 and Symphonic Orchestra. The announced expression map system is not implemented yet, and there is also no MIDI out...



Is that definitely true? I haven't seen that anywhere. Playback is basically the number one reason I'd switch from Finale - I want to be able to use all my various libraries and be able to control the CCs and velocities in piano roll mode, and in a mode that doesn't affect the print layout. That is the #1 selling point for me, and there's no way I will touch Dorico until I know that's sorted out. But this is the first I've heard of there being such a limitation - their website seems to indicate that any library compatible w/ VST3 is a go.


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## ed buller (Oct 16, 2016)

no i'm not sure it is true. Certainly extensive playback control IS one of it's aims. I know the first version will be much more basic then they would like ( although i have heard it will support VST2 and Kontakt ) and cc control at first will be limited but i'm equally sure one of it's aims is midi playback that IS different than the score so the playing can be tweaked. 


this is even discussed @ 7;40 ( before he is rather rudely interrupted ! )






e


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## fratveno (Oct 17, 2016)

Well, it is true (of version 1.)True as in "confirmed by the lead developers". Take a look in the recent threads here for more uptodate info: (E.g. the one on VE Pro 6) https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=246


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## shnootre (Oct 17, 2016)

Interesting. This is VERY relevant to me: 
"There's limited support for third-party VST instruments. You can certainly load up Vienna Ensemble Pro and route instruments in Dorico to VSL, for example, but what is missing is the Expression Map support that will make it easy to create the changes in playing techniques by way of keyswitches, controller changes, and so on."​
That's from Daniel Spreadbury. I use VE Pro 6 w/ Finale now. I'm a bit confused about what he's saying here. Would we still be able to send keywitches via hidden expressions (as I do in Finale) or some other method? That's a pain, but I've learned to live w/ it as I incorporate more and more high end libraries into my Finale workflow. If we can do that, and ALSO manipulate velocity and controller data in a piano-roll situation that doesn't affect layout, I'm in from day one (or, you know, when I finish the current project). Expression Map I assume is the corollary to Human Playback in Finale? Where expressions like "arco," "pizz," and articulations trigger sample changes without the user needing to input actual keyswitches?


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## lucor (Oct 17, 2016)

Sound on Sound says it will be 579€ or 349€ for teachers and students. http://www.soundonsound.com/news/steinberg-unveil-dorico-music-notation-software


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## ed buller (Oct 17, 2016)

shnootre said:


> Interesting. This is VERY relevant to me:
> "There's limited support for third-party VST instruments. You can certainly load up Vienna Ensemble Pro and route instruments in Dorico to VSL, for example, but what is missing is the Expression Map support that will make it easy to create the changes in playing techniques by way of keyswitches, controller changes, and so on."​
> That's from Daniel Spreadbury. I use VE Pro 6 w/ Finale now. I'm a bit confused about what he's saying here. Would we still be able to send key switches via hidden expressions (as I do in Finale) or some other method? That's a pain, but I've learned to live w/ it as I incorporate more and more high end libraries into my Finale workflow. If we can do that, and ALSO manipulate velocity and controller data in a piano-roll situation that doesn't affect layout, I'm in from day one (or, you know, when I finish the current project). Expression Map I assume is the corollary to Human Playback in Finale? Where expressions like "arco," "pizz," and articulations trigger sample changes without the user needing to input actual keyswitches?




I think the best way to approach this is "It's in development". The start of this software is that it blows Sibelius and Finale away . There hasn't been any new software to compete for 10 plus years. So that's the first thing to get right. On top of that...phase 2...will be getting it to playback. Now their approach is unique. You will be able to have a completely different set of notes and instructions connected to your score. So on the surface it looks like something someone would play straight of the stand...and underneath is a midi version you will need to make it sound good, but crucially unlike current scoring software all that will NOT show up in the score....so that stays tidy and playable. This will include such ace things as instructions specific for various sounds linked to standard text in the score. So you could have different "arco" "col legno" "pizz" sounds from different libraries whenever you want. All this will be saveable and recallable whenever you need. You will also be able to write whatever CC data you need to get the sound you want....all behind your pristine score. And yes you will be able to use 3rd party Libraries.........


https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=567910

HOWEVER..........this is coming. What IS included we will find out on the 19th . But you can bet your socks that it will come as quickly as it can....and will undoubtedly be awesome. This is a big team of people...all highly skilled who have been working on it for 4 years backed by the manufacturer of the DAW that most people use....i'm sold.....


e


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## Daryl (Oct 17, 2016)

lucor said:


> Sound on Sound says it will be 579€ or 349€ for teachers and students. http://www.soundonsound.com/news/steinberg-unveil-dorico-music-notation-software


Yes, but if you buy Notion and then cross-grade, you could save quite a bit of dosh.


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## ZeroZero (Oct 17, 2016)

LFO said:


> I use Finale and I get tired of composing in Finale, exporting the MIDI, importing the MIDI into Cubase and then spending hours and hours editing the MIDI. Will Dorico eliminate the need to do this? In other words, how deep does MIDI editing go? (Tempo track? Automation curves? Automation moves with notes? Etc.) If I can score and get the exact MIDI performance I want behind it I'm sold.


I think this is the exact point! In other words how deeply does it integrate with Cubase?
The original Cubase score that has existed forever but only had minor updates had one KILLER feature DISPLAY QUANTIZE.
This meant that you could have your display display the notes how you want them whilst having the performance feature a certain looseness or feel that did not result in hemidemisemiquavers. You could craft the way a bar displayed your intentions and retain a legible score when emulating a performance
The whole issue with Sibelius et al is that if you enter your notes through a score package, your performance is dead in the water when played back and you have to know a lot to rejig that performance to humanise it. I find things like quantizing swing does not cut the ice with my ears.
Sadly, I dont think this has been the focus of Daniel Spreadbury and his team, which were ported in from Sibelius to Steinberg when they closed offices. Following his blog its all been about what type of appogitura or whatever, what font, spaceings etc. He has said that integration with Cubase is NOT going to feature in this release.
Its a lot of wonga. For me I dont see what would drag a Sibelius user away. Let's hope I am wrong about this as I am very pro Steinberg!


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## 5Lives (Oct 17, 2016)

I don't think Notion qualifies for the crossgrade? I've been preferring it to Sibelius (love the handwriting recognition - will Dorico have that?)


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## Daryl (Oct 18, 2016)

5Lives said:


> I don't think Notion qualifies for the crossgrade?


I think it does.


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## Tatu (Oct 18, 2016)

Daryl said:


> I think it does.


That's great! I think Notion wasn't listed some time ago and I had already turned away from this. Now I can spend countless hours and even more time pondering wether or not to get this. Thanks for putting my head on to a spin, man.


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## Musicam (Oct 18, 2016)

Dorico is similar to Musescore?


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## Daryl (Oct 18, 2016)

Musicam said:


> Dorico is similar to Musescore?


No, it's much more advanced, and suitable for top level professional work.


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## Lassi Tani (Oct 18, 2016)

Musicam said:


> Dorico is similar to Musescore?



Dorico has much more compared to Musescore. It has the same audio engine as in Cubase or Nuendo, and can handle VST3 and some VST2, apparently Kontakt is supported, which means I can use my Kontakt libraries for the sounds of the instruments in the score. Also everything else is much more advanced too.


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## jamwerks (Oct 18, 2016)

I also wonder what parts (if any) of Dorico will turn up in Cubase 9 which should be out this December. Personally I don't want or expect to notate and print from Cubase, but if the Score editor was more enhanced I'd be happy!


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## Daryl (Oct 18, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> I also wonder what parts (if any) of Dorico will turn up in Cubase 9 which should be out this December. Personally I don't want or expect to notate and print from Cubase, but if the Score editor was more enhanced I'd be happy!


None.


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## shnootre (Oct 18, 2016)

ed buller said:


> I think the best way to approach this is "It's in development". The start of this software is that it blows Sibelius and Finale away . There hasn't been any new software to compete for 10 plus years. So that's the first thing to get right.
> e



That's a pretty big assumption! Finale and Sibelius are pretty darn powerful, and they have been refining their software for 20+ years. As a Finale user there are definitely a TON of limitations and problems that have nagged me for years. But there are also a ton of things the program does really, really well. The notion that a program is going to be vastly superior in its 1.0 version is attractive, but very unlikely. There will be bugs - everyone uses these things in different ways, and the beta testers won't find them all. The combination of bugs and missing functionality will make it up to each user to determine whether it is worth the trouble, or whether we have to give them a year or two to iron out the kinks. 

Believe me, I want this to be the be-all and end-all of notation programs, and I'm VERY encouraged by what I've seen, but there's also reality to contend with. I'm waiting very eagerly to hear reports from the first users (starting tomorrow, I imagine), and I'm almost certainly going to purchase some time after the free trial goes live (unless it's really problematic). I applaud their attention to detail, and Daniel Spreadbury seems like an absolutely standup guy and committed to the mission. Now let's see the results!


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## Sebastianmu (Oct 18, 2016)

shnootre said:


> Finale and Sibelius are pretty darn powerful, and they have been refining their software for 20+ years.


Working with both of them is a complete nightmare. You can call it "refining", I'd say they are stuck with layers of age-old code that make it impossible to fix the disturbing shortcomings that both of these programs have. Dorico's overcoming the box-model of bars alone is a huge leap forward in terms of usability. I was following Daniel's blog for the last couple of years and am very exited about Dorico. And I'm completely convinced, it _will _blow away Finale and Sibelius in version 1.0, and prove itself to be vastly superior.


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## Lassi Tani (Oct 18, 2016)

Live starts now:


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## ed buller (Oct 18, 2016)

shnootre said:


> That's a pretty big assumption! Finale and Sibelius are pretty darn powerful, and they have been refining their software for 20+ years. As a Finale user there are definitely a TON of limitations and problems that have nagged me for years. But there are also a ton of things the program does really, really well. The notion that a program is going to be vastly superior in its 1.0 version is attractive, but very unlikely. There will be bugs - everyone uses these things in different ways, and the beta testers won't find them all. The combination of bugs and missing functionality will make it up to each user to determine whether it is worth the trouble, or whether we have to give them a year or two to iron out the kinks.
> 
> Believe me, I want this to be the be-all and end-all of notation programs, and I'm VERY encouraged by what I've seen, but there's also reality to contend with. I'm waiting very eagerly to hear reports from the first users (starting tomorrow, I imagine), and I'm almost certainly going to purchase some time after the free trial goes live (unless it's really problematic). I applaud their attention to detail, and Daniel Spreadbury seems like an absolutely standup guy and committed to the mission. Now let's see the results!




What can I say. You might well be right but from what I have seen I suspect not. I think ( and I have used Sibelius from v1) this will be a game changer....we will know tomorrow

e


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## Lassi Tani (Oct 18, 2016)

I think this defines, what I've seen from the live so far: The interface looks very intuitive! You can compose quite fast, and make a great looking score, but if you like to customize the score, there's a lot of options for customizing. That kind of UI I like the most, that you can go as deep as you want, but if you don't need or want, you can still do a lot just with the basic settings.


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## shnootre (Oct 18, 2016)

Sebastianmu said:


> Working with both of them is a complete nightmare. You can call it "refining", I'd say they are stuck with layers of age-old code that make it impossible to fix the disturbing shortcomings that both of these programs have. Dorico's overcoming the box-model of bars alone is a huge leap forward in terms of usability. I was following Daniel's blog for the last couple of years and am very exited about Dorico. And I'm completely convinced, it _will _blow away Finale and Sibelius in version 1.0, and prove itself to be vastly superior.



Well sounds like you're all set. I'm very impressed by the intro demo, but looks like playback support will be quite limited in the beginning. It's very difficult to navigate playback in Finale, but I'm managing and using lots of libraries etc. with success. If Dorico works as well - eventually - as it promises in this intro video, I will be sure to adopt. But for my professional work, for the time being, I have to stick with the more mature program.


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## shnootre (Oct 18, 2016)

The layout features, of course, look terrific here. And that is Finale's biggest shortcoming.


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## jneebz (Oct 18, 2016)

Amazing. And I confirmed with the online Dorico moderator that NOTION is indeed included in the Cross-grade discount...great news! 

EDIT: Apologies to Daryl, who confirmed this earlier...I missed that post


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## dtcomposer (Oct 18, 2016)

Layout and engraving look as impressive as I was hoping for the first release. The playback is a mild disappointment, but they are saying the right things. I'm invested in this program for the future, so I'm going to buy it on day one without hesitation. 

For media music production I'll just stick to Cubase until Dorico catches up enough to make it worthwhile. I think even in the end I'll probably want to just export (hopefully much more refined and finished) midi tracks/data to cubase for mixing.


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## shnootre (Oct 18, 2016)

There's no question that if this is/becomes everything DS promises, it is absolutely the future of computer music notation. I am very excited about it.


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## Prockamanisc (Oct 18, 2016)

Right now I'm reminded of 2011 when I was going to purchase Sibelius 7. I was a student and was eligible for the academic version, but I wouldn't have been eligible for upgrades. I reasoned to myself "I'm going to be using this program for the rest of my life. I'll be upgrading for the rest of my life. I might as well do it right." So I dumped $500 into it, instead of the $2-300 that it could have been. Weeks later, the team got fired. I upgraded a few years later to 7.5, even though it was barely an upgrade, mostly hoping it was going to include bug fixes (it didn't). It is with that in mind (and many, many other things) that I gladly jump ship from Sibelius into Dorico, a program that, from the outset, is about longevity, and reclaiming the software world for the composer.


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## koolkeys (Oct 18, 2016)

Prockamanisc said:


> Right now I'm reminded of 2011 when I was going to purchase Sibelius 7. I was a student and was eligible for the academic version, but I wouldn't have been eligible for upgrades. I reasoned to myself "I'm going to be using this program for the rest of my life. I'll be upgrading for the rest of my life. I might as well do it right." So I dumped $500 into it, instead of the $2-300 that it could have been. Weeks later, the team got fired. I upgraded a few years later to 7.5, even though it was barely an upgrade, mostly hoping it was going to include bug fixes (it didn't). It is with that in mind (and many, many other things) that I gladly jump ship from Sibelius into Dorico, a program that, from the outset, is about longevity, and reclaiming the software world for the composer.


And this is one of the reasons I'm so interested. I've had Finale since I think Finale 2000, and only ever had Sibelius 8. Finale has gone through so many new versions, but no matter how many versions they go through, the workflow really hasn't improved THAT much. They certainly have added a lot of new Garritan sounds though! 64-bit? Great. But what about workflow. Oh, you support VSTi now? Awesome! So about that workflow. Hey, now you have even more patterns available for the Smartmusic integration. Oh, and more Garritan sounds! But, uhhh, about that workflow. 

In other words, as powerful as Finale is, it has never really evolved. It hasn't been designed for a computer composer. I thought Sibelius might be better, and in some ways, it is. But I can't help getting the feeling that both were designed with traditional engraver workflows in mind. Sure, they are better than using paper and pen. But they remain clunky. I can get work done in them, so it isn't like Dorico is a needed tool (which is why I am hoping for a much lower crossgrade price, and a demo that I hope blows me away). But if it could make me WANT to create sheet music again, and eventually integrate better with Cubase, I'm gonna buy the heck out of this thing, lol.

Brent


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## Inceptic (Oct 18, 2016)

No Windows 7 support...


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## Daryl (Oct 19, 2016)

Inceptic said:


> No Windows 7 support...


Yes, but it works on W7, and I;'m sure if you had a problem, there are enough Windows 7 users around that you wouldn't fond it a problem. There is a discussion about this on the Steinberg Dorico forum, and it seems that there is only one Windows component that you might have to download separately.


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## noxtenebrae17 (Oct 19, 2016)

Been waiting for this release for years now. Finally get to jump ship from Finale! At least, halfway since I'm sure I'll run into something that I can't quite do yet in Dorico.

Purchased and downloading!


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## shnootre (Oct 19, 2016)

Some early reports over on the Sample discussion sound terrible. And $279 is simply too high of an intro crossgrade price for a product that isn't fully functional yet. Many of us Finale and Sibelius users have invested in many upgrades, and it should be noted that the Dorico crossgrade price is significantly higher than both those of Finale and Sibelius. They need to build a user base, and it's going to come from users of those two programs. After the first report I read this morning, there is absolutely no way I will pay $279 to crossgrade - then wait till the features I need are implemented. I think they should have either waited till it was ready, or offered a special intro crossgrade price of $125.


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## shnootre (Oct 19, 2016)

koolkeys said:


> And this is one of the reasons I'm so interested. I've had Finale since I think Finale 2000, and only ever had Sibelius 8. Finale has gone through so many new versions, but no matter how many versions they go through, the workflow really hasn't improved THAT much. They certainly have added a lot of new Garritan sounds though! 64-bit? Great. But what about workflow. Oh, you support VSTi now? Awesome! So about that workflow. Hey, now you have even more patterns available for the Smartmusic integration. Oh, and more Garritan sounds! But, uhhh, about that workflow.
> 
> In other words, as powerful as Finale is, it has never really evolved. It hasn't been designed for a computer composer. I thought Sibelius might be better, and in some ways, it is. But I can't help getting the feeling that both were designed with traditional engraver workflows in mind. Sure, they are better than using paper and pen. But they remain clunky. I can get work done in them, so it isn't like Dorico is a needed tool (which is why I am hoping for a much lower crossgrade price, and a demo that I hope blows me away). But if it could make me WANT to create sheet music again, and eventually integrate better with Cubase, I'm gonna buy the heck out of this thing, lol.
> 
> Brent



This is really an eloquent and accurate assessment of the development of Finale. The improvements have been helpful, but they've never dealt with the big issues. Jeez - Finale 25 STILL can't put tremolo markings in the right place by default!

I am hopeful that Dorico will get their stuff sorted, and I look forward to further reviews, reports, updates, and the free trial period.


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## koolkeys (Oct 19, 2016)

shnootre said:


> Some early reports over on the Sample discussion sound terrible. And $279 is simply too high of an intro crossgrade price for a product that isn't fully functional yet. Many of us Finale and Sibelius users have invested in many upgrades, and it should be noted that the Dorico crossgrade price is significantly higher than both those of Finale and Sibelius. They need to build a user base, and it's going to come from users of those two programs. After the first report I read this morning, there is absolutely no way I will pay $279 to crossgrade - then wait till the features I need are implemented. I think they should have either waited till it was ready, or offered a special intro crossgrade price of $125.


Yeah, this all bums me out big time. I realize they are attempting to place Dorico as the "gold standard", but at this time, it isn't. Even with the new workflow, it is missing FAR too much to justify the retail price, and the crossgrade price. There is no way on this planet that a $279 crossgrade is justified, IMO. 

I know what Steinberg will say, that it is an advanced software and you are getting it for a lower price, etc. But if they want to be competitive, they have to lure professionals away from Finale and Sibelius, which are both extremely full-featured (despite workflow issues and bugs, overall Dorico is not as powerful from what I can see). Steinberg simply has to see that they won't get many people like myself at that price. 

Maybe in a year or two that price could be justified if they improve Dorico at lightspeed and make it a must own. But from what I've seen, it isn't close to that yet. I'm very disappointed by this pricing. As mentioned, both Finale and Sibelius crossgrade prices are far lower. Steinberg really failed at this one, at least for me.

Brent


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