# Upgrading vs. Switching to Reaper



## robgb (Mar 31, 2017)

When I got into this crazy field a couple of decades ago, i started with Cakewalk, graduated to Sonar, switched to Cubase/Nuendo, switched from PC to Mac and started using Logic, then finally settled on Studio One 2.

I have been using Studio One 2 for quite some time now and love it, but it lacks some features and I've been meaning to upgrade to the more powerful Studio One 3, which has been around for a couple of years now. I tried a demo version, got pissed off when I saved a project file and it didn't warn me I couldn't take it back to version 2 (despite support insisting it had to have and treating me pretty shabbily), and since version 3 doesn't have a "Producer" version (which was all I needed), I would have to shell out $199 for the upgrade.

So I stalled. And stalled. And bought another string library and a copy of Realitone's Ladies, instead.

For the last few days, however, I have been playing around with Reaper. It's been sitting on my computer for a few years and I never really used it. But I discovered that not only was the evaluation version still working (!!!), the upgrade to Version 5+ is absolutely free. And when you buy a license, you get two versions for the price of one. I read that one guy was able to keep current for six years before he had to buy a new version.

That's all great, but how does it perform? Well, after watching tutorials by Kenny Gioia and others, I've discovered that not only does Reaper do EVERYTHING—and I mean everything—I could ever want it to, it is possible to mold it to MY workflow and not be stuck with the developer's way of doing things.

I was sure there would be things I could do in Studio One that I can't do in Reaper, but so far I haven't found one. Using multiple outs in Kontakt, for instance, seems to be a bit of a pain, but once I've mapped it all out, all I have to do is save it as a track template and I'm good to go. But that may not even be necessary, because I've discovered that Reaper seems to be far more CPU friendly than Studio One. I was able to add twenty plus instances of Kontakt with barely a dent in my CPU compared to S1.

Reaper, I've discovered, is a tinkerer's dream. And I love to tinker. I've also found that there is a whole community of people creating gorgeous skins for the DAW, and I've chosen one that's quite beautiful compared to the default skin, and much more pleasing to the eye than Studio One.

I can't believe this DAW has been sitting on my hard drive for years and, except for a couple of flirtations, I've basically ignored it. Now I'm seriously thinking that I don't ever need to upgrade to Studio One 3 at all and should simply pay the $60 (or $225, depending on your commercial income), for Reaper and never look back.

Wow, that was long. But I feel as if I've just come out of a cave into the light.


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## wst3 (Mar 31, 2017)

I think I've had a copy of Reaper on my studio computer for nearly as long. I try it, I get frustrated, I forget to delete it... a few months later I update and try it again... lather, rinse, repeat. I still use Sonar and Studio One V3 as my main environments, for a while I was using Studio One most of the time, and then recently I started using Sonar again. Go figure...

My most recent brush with Reaper was pretty positive. They've simplified a lot of things I used to find cumbersome - or I've just gotten more comfortable with Reaper, can't really guess. I've got a couple odds and ends to take care of (like finishing cleaning up my template<G>) and then I think it is time to give Reaper a fair try, again.

I'd really like it to work for me. I'm impressed by the company and their approach, I like the flexibility it provides, I was just never able to bend it to my workflow. It looks like that may have finally changed...


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## Karsten Vogt (Mar 31, 2017)

Studio One user V3 here. Best usability, drag and drop everywhere, very fast. Love it, won't leave it.
What I really like about reaper is the customization which is better than any other DAW I know. I tried it in need of a 2nd DAW next to my Ableton Live. Reaper was really efficient on resources but terribly cumbersome to use back then so I chose Studio One V2 Producer. Later I upgraded on a very good deal to V3 Pro.


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## Takabuntu (Mar 31, 2017)

Or you could start a "who has the best opinion about what's the best decision to take" thread


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## d.healey (Mar 31, 2017)

Really this is something only you can decide. I'm a Reaper user and it does everything I need, I switched to it from Cubase about 4 years ago.


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## samphony (Mar 31, 2017)

robgb said:


> When I got into this crazy field a couple of decades ago, i started with Cakewalk, graduated to Sonar, switched to Cubase/Nuendo, switched from PC to Mac and started using Logic, then finally settled on Studio One 2.
> 
> I have been using Studio One 2 for quite some time now and love it, but it lacks some features and I've been meaning to upgrade to the more powerful Studio One 3, which has been around for a couple of years now. I tried a demo version, got pissed off when I saved a project file and it didn't warn me I couldn't take it back to version 2 (despite support insisting it had to have and treating me pretty shabbily), and since version 3 doesn't have a "Producer" version (which was all I needed), I would have to shell out $199 for the upgrade.
> 
> ...



I would say it depends on your needs. If you want to work fast, have no time relearning you should upgrade.


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## tack (Mar 31, 2017)

robgb said:


> Reaper, I've discovered, is a tinkerer's dream. And I love to tinker.


I think, perhaps, this is your answer. If you have technical aptitude and the intestinal fortitude to customize your workflow six ways from Sunday, it's hard to do better than Reaper.



omiroad said:


> Reaper is cool but even with tinkering, limited.


You could be right, but this may also just be lack of awareness. Can you expand on which things you found Reaper couldn't do even with tinkering?




omiroad said:


> Imo the development of Reaper is mostly based on their own wishes, so in case it does everything you want you may be lucky.


Well this is certainly true. The development direction of Reaper seems terribly ... whimsical.


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## chimuelo (Mar 31, 2017)

Reapers video treats and customizing Menu/Theme and Portable choices make it a worthy DAW.
I haven't had time to record for 5 years.
Decided to upgrade as the last time I used Reaper was 4.
Still prefer heavy MIDI Editing in Cubase, but recording with Reaper is just so fast and simple.
I made a theme for 4K where I can read my custom large icons from several feet away.
No need for Menu drop downs.
Screensets allow me to use the Arrange View for a single track.
I can use my K4 to do about anything I want, so this is great when you want to record quickly and not need to use QWERTY or mouse.


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## Mornats (Mar 31, 2017)

omiroad said:


> I think when I try to switch to Reaper again I want to know some kind of Reaper mentor who can help me set it up the way I want...



Maybe check out this: http://vi-control.net/community/thr...-template-for-reaper-otr-now-available.59314/


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## Jacob Cadmus (Mar 31, 2017)

I still use Studio One for producing rock/pop songs, because audio quantize works better for me over there and I like the melodyne integration. But for film scores and post-production audio, I'm a Reaper all the way.


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## robgb (Apr 1, 2017)

omiroad said:


> Studio One v3 is way more enticing than 2 in my opinion. If you like 2 then it's kind of a crime not to at least try 3.


I did give it a try. I had the demo of 3 for about a month. It was fantastic. But was it $199 fantastic? Apparently not, since I haven't been compelled to upgrade just yet.


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## robgb (Apr 1, 2017)

Jacob Cadmus said:


> I still use Studio One for producing rock/pop songs, because audio quantize works better for me over there and I like the melodyne integration. But for film scores and post-production audio, I'm a Reaper all the way.


I was very surprised to see that Reaper has something called ReaTune that is kind of a mini version of melodyne. It's great for tuning vocals with relative ease.


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## robgb (Apr 1, 2017)

omiroad said:


> Oh, I remember a thing by the way, but it was only from word of mouth. Apparently tempo changes aren't so great? (for like orchestral stuff


I haven't tried any tempo changes yet, but they're on a menu, so I can't imagine it's difficult.


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## d.healey (Apr 1, 2017)

Tempo changes are easy, just set the playback cursor and then scroll the mouse wheel over the BPM box in the transport to add a tempo change. You can also set them with an envelope if you want gradual changes - right click in the track manager and select show master track, then enable the track's tempo map envelope by clicking the little symbol on the track that looks like 3 nodes and says trim and selecting visible next to tempo map.


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## gregh (Apr 1, 2017)

If you are someone who is happy fiddling with computers then Reaper is good - very stable and efficient. But the interface is not great out of the box and the attitudes of some in the forum can be annoying (there is a lot of sexism, quite a bit of defensiveness, cliquey). OTR is a great addition - without user extensions Reaper is nowhere near as useful as with extensions. That is a concern, but everyone uses extensions so ..... If the whole Reaper style clicks with you then it is very powerful. I have been with Reaper since before v1 but I would not recommend it to someone who has been using and is familiar with Sonar or Studio One etc unless they had very good reasons to switch. Learning a DAW is quite time consuming so switching is not trivial.
Linear tempo changes are fine but for some unknown reason Reaper does not allow beziers for tempo even though they are used elsewhere. This inconsistency in user interaction is one of the annoying things about Reaper


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## sazema (Apr 1, 2017)

I'm using Reaper and I can say only this:

opening projects - *super fast*, no crashes etc with most common plugins
*CPU consumption* - think best among other sequencers
Software update - *every each*, which is good, no need to wait half of year for update.
workflow - sometimes easy sometimes hard
MIDI - sometimes good, sometimes frustrating (it depends)
configuration options - best I ever saw within any sequencer
coloring tracks - I miss one fine control like in any other sequencer for choosing color
Routing/Grouping - mighty one also, but sometimes frustrating, there is only 1 type of multi-universal track (no separate MIDI, Audio, Instrument etc...)
Big community is a big plus, lot of extensions, workarounds etc... I found solution for any problem I had. For example due to fact standard track disable option missing - you can find script and just map it to key shortcut and voila 
Items automation - missing nice line drawing with points etc beside free form drawing
Still missing one nice theme, there is a great themes indeed but each one has some things I don't like and I always back to default Reaper theme.
It needs lot of configuration when you start, but good thing configuration can be exported and imported and that is good part. You can have your configuration saved in case of reinstalling system.


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## gregh (Apr 1, 2017)

also one thing that is great about Reaper is that you can do independent portable installs - so you can have a version setup as you want and another one for testing configuration changes.


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## tack (Apr 1, 2017)

gregh said:


> also one thing that is great about Reaper is that you can do independent portable installs - so you can have a version setup as you want and another one for testing configuration changes.


_And_ you can run them independently (by passing /newinst as an option on startup). I have a portable instance running for microphone processing during screencasts, and it stays out of the way, running separately from my primary Reaper process.

(You can run a single installation multiple times with /newinst but I prefer to use a portable installation to keep it lean.)


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## gregh (Apr 1, 2017)

tack said:


> _And_ you can run them independently (by passing /newinst as an option on startup). I have a portable instance running for microphone processing during screencasts, and it stays out of the way, running separately from my primary Reaper process.
> 
> (You can run a single installation multiple times with /newinst but I prefer to use a portable installation to keep it lean.)


thanks, what a great tip! and now done on my system too


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## peter5992 (Apr 1, 2017)

robgb said:


> When I got into this crazy field a couple of decades ago, i started with Cakewalk, graduated to Sonar, switched to Cubase/Nuendo, switched from PC to Mac and started using Logic, then finally settled on Studio One 2.
> 
> I have been using Studio One 2 for quite some time now and love it, but it lacks some features and I've been meaning to upgrade to the more powerful Studio One 3, which has been around for a couple of years now. I tried a demo version, got pissed off when I saved a project file and it didn't warn me I couldn't take it back to version 2 (despite support insisting it had to have and treating me pretty shabbily), and since version 3 doesn't have a "Producer" version (which was all I needed), I would have to shell out $199 for the upgrade.
> 
> ...



Reaper's great ... I've had it for nearly 10 years now. Support on the forums is really great, probably because of the huge user base. 

Even if you are not a tinkerer (that would be me), there's so many themes to choose from ... I have the Pro Tools 2.0.5 theme by a guy called Alberto (from Spain), super clean and nice, and it's easy to organize even huge sessions for orchestral pieces with hundreds of tracks without getting lost in the woods. 

I've never used Studio One, but not being backwards compatible is really poor imo .... for example, I have Sibelius 8.5 now, but I can export to any previous version (with losing some functionality, of course) but I can collaborate with anyone who has any previous version of Sibelius.


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## robgb (Apr 1, 2017)

peter5992 said:


> I've never used Studio One, but not being backwards compatible is really poor imo


It's complete nonsense. And even if it isn't compatible, you would think support would have a way to help me when I suddenly can't open a project. They had no interest whatsoever. Customer support, for me at least, was horrible. I felt as if my work was being held ransom for $200.


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## robgb (Apr 6, 2017)

sazema said:


> coloring tracks - I miss one fine control like in any other sequencer for choosing color


I saw a tutorial on Youtube—and I can't remember which one—that showed you could a color could be assigned to a track based on keywords. If you type in "Violin" or "Strings," the track will automatically change to blue or whatever you assign that keyword. Once you have something like that set up, I can't imagine any other control would be necessary.

Found it:


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## creativeforge (Apr 6, 2017)

robgb said:


> When I got into this crazy field a couple of decades ago, i started with Cakewalk, graduated to Sonar, switched to Cubase/Nuendo, switched from PC to Mac and started using Logic, then finally settled on Studio One 2.
> 
> I have been using Studio One 2 for quite some time now and love it, but it lacks some features and I've been meaning to upgrade to the more powerful Studio One 3, which has been around for a couple of years now. I tried a demo version, got pissed off when I saved a project file and it didn't warn me I couldn't take it back to version 2 (despite support insisting it had to have and treating me pretty shabbily), and since version 3 doesn't have a "Producer" version (which was all I needed), I would have to shell out $199 for the upgrade.
> 
> ...



If you are a tinkerer, I'd encourage you to keep diving into Reaper. Coming from Cakewalk 9, I skipped the whole Sonar era and a few years ago found Reaper. I loved it. Until I started feeling annoyed with the access to vsts and vstis, something wasn't intuitive enough for me. Some told me it could be fixed, customized, etc, but I felt it was more than that.

So I gave Mixcraft (by Acoustica) another try and found it solved that problem very well. I'm a visual guy and this one makes it better for me. And the price is also very close to Reaper. But the Reaper community will probably give you that tinkering vibe you love so much. But if undecided, I suggest you try Mixcraft.


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## robgb (Apr 6, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> So I gave Mixcraft (by Acoustica) another try and found it solved that problem very well. I'm a visual guy and this one makes it better for me. And the price is also very close to Reaper. But the Reaper community will probably give you that tinkering vibe you love so much. But if undecided, I suggest you try Mixcraft.


Mixcraft actually looks great. Unfortunately, it's PC only. I migrated to Mac when I switched to Logic years ago.


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## creativeforge (Apr 6, 2017)

robgb said:


> Mixcraft actually looks great. Unfortunately, it's PC only. I migrated to Mac when I switched to Logic years ago.



Darn, I didn't notice that. Sorry!


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## Quasar (Apr 6, 2017)

sazema said:


> I'm using Reaper and I can say only this:
> 
> opening projects - *super fast*, no crashes etc with most common plugins
> *CPU consumption* - think best among other sequencers
> ...



I ADORE Reaper. I don't necessarily enjoy tinkering with it for tinkering's sake, but appreciate how configurable it is, and mostly have it how I want. My customized, idiosyncratic theme (based on RADO) has evolved over time, does everything I need, and is visually appealing and functional for me. If I had to go back to the default theme I'd likely be confused at first.

One thing I wish is that there were native support for vector (bezier-like) curves in the MIDI editor for drawing CCs instead of those unwieldy bars. Currently using ReaControlMIDI as a less than ideal work-around. The sheer volume of .lua scripts et al are intimidating, and I'm still searching for an intuitive, easy-to-use MIDI editor workflow with expression map-like capabilities. Then I'll be 100% happy with this DAW.


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## Audio Birdi (Apr 7, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> I ADORE Reaper. I don't necessarily enjoy tinkering with it for tinkering's sake, but appreciate how configurable it is, and mostly have it how I want. My customized, idiosyncratic theme (based on RADO) has evolved over time, does everything I need, and is visually appealing and functional for me. If I had to go back to the default theme I'd likely be confused at first.
> 
> One thing I wish is that there were native support for vector (bezier-like) curves in the MIDI editor for drawing CCs instead of those unwieldy bars. Currently using ReaControlMIDI as a less than ideal work-around. The sheer volume of .lua scripts et al are intimidating, and I'm still searching for an intuitive, easy-to-use MIDI editor workflow with expression map-like capabilities. Then I'll be 100% happy with this DAW.



Expression maps-like implementation has been teased for Reaper, it'll take a while to implement though.


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## Synetos (Apr 11, 2017)

I finally bought a license for Reaper today. I have been a long time Cubase user (since version 4) and own two copies of Cubase Pro 9. I am frustrated with the buggy changes and having to constantly fork cash over for a new set of bugs. Drivers always fighting, only to get hosed again with the next release. I also own Logic X, but I sunk a ton of cash into my current PC DAW rig, so that closed that door. Maybe if Apple hadn't sat on the Mac Pro upgrade for so long, I would have stayed with it. 

I know it will take me a little while to get my head wrapped around Reaper, but I fell in love with how much I can "make it my own". I was a programmer in a former life, so I am not intimidated by tweaking. Plus, there are so many users who seem willing to share wisdom. Maybe I will change my mind after I work with it a while longer, but I can't see any less frustration than the constant sloppy upgrades of Cubase. I don't see $60 being a high cost of entry for a serious shot at moving to Reaper, and I didnt want to eval it and get the nag screen.


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## robgb (Apr 11, 2017)

KaBirdi said:


> Expression maps-like implementation has been teased for Reaper, it'll take a while to implement though.


Go to the Synthetic Orchestra website and download Blake Robinson's Reaper articulation tool. It's easy to install and works like a charm.


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## robgb (Apr 11, 2017)

Anyone looking to (or thinking about) making the jump to Reaper, do yourself a big favor and watch these tutorials first. You'll be glad you did: 

http://www.reaper.fm/videos.php


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## Synetos (Apr 11, 2017)

robgb said:


> Anyone looking to (or thinking about) making the jump to Reaper, do yourself a big favor and watch these tutorials first. You'll be glad you did:
> 
> http://www.reaper.fm/videos.php


Yes! I have been watching them for the last few hours. Extremely helpful.



robgb said:


> Go to the Synthetic Orchestra website and download Blake Robinson's Reaper articulation tool. It's easy to install and works like a charm.


Thanks for this! I have lots of VST's (VSL, Spectrasonics, etc). I am not too stuck on expression maps in Cubase, as I just started trying to use them.


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## esencia (Mar 6, 2018)

KaBirdi said:


> Expression maps-like implementation has been teased for Reaper, it'll take a while to implement though.


That´s my main concern about Reaper. I think it´s not well implemented, only using the ReaControlMIDI, but I'm not able to make it works properly when I try to use it for recording external midi CC info.. :(


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## EvilDragon (Mar 6, 2018)

What schwa implemented back then in one of prerelease cycles regarding expression maps doesn't rely on ReaControlMIDI at all.


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## nulautre (Mar 6, 2018)

KaBirdi said:


> Expression maps-like implementation has been teased for Reaper, it'll take a while to implement though.


https://vi-control.net/community/threads/reaticulate-articulation-management-for-reaper.66851
I found this about a week ago, it's working well for me


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## esencia (Mar 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> What schwa implemented back then in one of prerelease cycles regarding expression maps doesn't rely on ReaControlMIDI at all.


Then..I don’t know how to do it...
I just want to record cc messages into the envelopes as I was doing in cubase, Logic, etc...(cc7, cc1, cc11, cc17, cc18,cc21....the most common ones for strings libraries) but not in the in-line item editor. 
Is there a way to just record that info into the envelope lanes ?
It has been two days reading in cookos and trying reecontrolmidi but it’s imposibke for me. In the process o associate/learn external midi controller to each of these parameters it’s like it gets crazy moving more than one parameter st the same time with the same wheel 
:(
This is my stopper to fully move into reaper...

Could you please help me?


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## EvilDragon (Mar 6, 2018)

That has nothing to do with expression maps. MIDI editor in Reaper doesn't support envelope-like editing, this is why ReaControlMIDI is there. I doubt this is ever going to change.

Here's the thing: when you use ReaControlMIDI, you should NOT MIDI learn ReaControlMIDI's CC sliders to the same CCs they are supposed to send out. You will get duplicate information (both recorded in RCM's envelope and within MIDI editor). The solution could be using DIFFERENT CC numbers for MIDI learning, then filtering them out after ReaControlMIDI using a JS FX MIDI filter loaded after RCM. Or just using host automation on RCM's CC sliders instead.


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## esencia (Mar 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> ...you should NOT MIDI learn ReaControlMIDI's CC sliders to the same CCs they are supposed to send out. You will get duplicate information (both recorded in RCM's envelope and within MIDI editor). The solution could be using DIFFERENT CC numbers for MIDI learning, then filtering them out after ReaControlMIDI using a JS FX MIDI filter loaded after RCM. Or just using host automation on RCM's CC sliders instead.



I'm sure if I understood you.. 
My external midi controller is using 5 wheels to those CC numbers.. Did you say that I need to unmap those CC from my external midi controller and use learn in reacontrolmidi with the learn function?


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## EvilDragon (Mar 6, 2018)

Yes. Remap those CCs to some other CC numbers, then MIDI learn the ReaControlMIDI CC sliders with your MIDI controller, and then filter the CC numbers you've remapped on your MIDI controller with a MIDI filter plugin loaded after RCM.


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## esencia (Mar 6, 2018)

ok. Thank you very much. What MIDI filter plugin do you recommend me to use?


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## Erick - BVA (Mar 6, 2018)

I've tried other DAWs, even Pro Tools. I just keep going back to Reaper.


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## esencia (Mar 6, 2018)

Sibelius19 said:


> I've tried other DAWs, even Pro Tools. I just keep going back to Reaper.


Interesting...
may I ask you why? 
are you using it for audio only or for midi productions?


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## EvilDragon (Mar 6, 2018)

esencia said:


> ok. Thank you very much. What MIDI filter plugin do you recommend me to use?



You can use this one attached. Place it in Reaper's JS FX folder.


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## esencia (Mar 6, 2018)

Thanks!

One question, just to understand how Reaper works internally. 
Do you know what´s the MIDI info data flow from the external hw to finish into the "MIDI ítem" and "Envelope's data"..

External HW-->FX#1-->FX#2-->FX#3..->VSTi-->"Track ítem"
-->"Envelope's data"

¿?


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## EvilDragon (Mar 6, 2018)

MIDI item is always last, track envelopes are before it.


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## esencia (Mar 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> MIDI item is always last, track envelopes are before it.


so your MIDI filter should be placed after kontakt in the FX chain ?


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## EvilDragon (Mar 6, 2018)

No, before Kontakt, but after ReaControlMIDI.


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## esencia (Mar 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> No, before Kontakt, but after ReaControlMIDI.


not working :(
I don't know why the hell is still recording info into the item editor..


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## EvilDragon (Mar 6, 2018)

Hm, beats me.

At this point you might just wanna draw the envelopes manually? Because using a MIDI controller on a plugin that itself sends out MIDI (ReaControlMIDI in this case) is not happening without problems, apparently. You'd likely need a different sort of controller, like Faderport, which can use Mackie controller, and which would be used as MIDI input for control messages in Reaper (these don't get recorded to tracks, they are just for MIDI learning plugin and track controls, and automating them)...


Personally I don't bother with ReaControlMIDI, I just use the MIDI editor's CC lanes. With some mouse modifier tweaking and a few scripts it's really good to use.


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## esencia (Mar 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Hm, beats me.
> 
> At this point you might just wanna draw the envelopes manually? Because using a MIDI controller on a plugin that itself sends out MIDI (ReaControlMIDI in this case) is not happening without problems, apparently. You'd likely need a different sort of controller, like Faderport, which can use Mackie controller, and which would be used as MIDI input for control messages in Reaper (these don't get recorded to tracks, they are just for MIDI learning plugin and track controls, and automating them)...
> 
> ...


:(

What kind of midi control message would avoid this issue? 
An iPad with touchosc or something like that would solve it? In this situation will still be reacontrolmidi needed?


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## EvilDragon (Mar 6, 2018)

If you want envelopes instead of bars, you gotta use ReaControlMIDI. There's no other way.

TouchOSC might be a solution, since you can add an OSC control surface to Reaper, and it is handled differently then. Should work!


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## esencia (Mar 9, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Hm, beats me.
> 
> Personally I don't bother with ReaControlMIDI, I just use the MIDI editor's CC lanes. With some mouse modifier tweaking and a few scripts it's really good to use.



I'm trying to digging into your alternative.. 
What kind of mouse/tweaks makes you feel more confortable with it?
Also, do you know how to reduce/smooth the number of CC recorded items to have something more "continuos"?

Thank you!


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## EvilDragon (Mar 9, 2018)

I just draw CCs without snapping to grid, just freehand draw them (holding Ctrl). Then if something needs a fix, I just draw over them.

Check out my mouse modifiers for MIDI editor contexts that I posted here.


Also these scripts are very useful sometimes.


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## resonate (Mar 10, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> That has nothing to do with expression maps. MIDI editor in Reaper doesn't support envelope-like editing, this is why ReaControlMIDI is there. I doubt this is ever going to change.
> 
> Here's the thing: when you use ReaControlMIDI, you should NOT MIDI learn ReaControlMIDI's CC sliders to the same CCs they are supposed to send out. You will get duplicate information (both recorded in RCM's envelope and within MIDI editor). The solution could be using DIFFERENT CC numbers for MIDI learning, then filtering them out after ReaControlMIDI using a JS FX MIDI filter loaded after RCM. Or just using host automation on RCM's CC sliders instead.



This does not happen here. I have my Command 8 set sending CC1 to CC11 at channel 1, and after learning the fader inside ReaControlMIDI, i do not get any duplicates from the midi region. In fact, the data only gets recorded into the envelope, and plays back as it supposed to.


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## EvilDragon (Mar 10, 2018)

Yeah that won't happen if you have your MIDI device set in Preferences to "enabled input for control signals" but have "enable input from this device" checkbox disabled. Then its MIDI data doesn't get written to MIDI items - can just use them freely for MIDI learn on actions and plugin parameters.


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## resonate (Mar 10, 2018)

Ok, i know what my "trick" is. I use only my keyboard's midi input on the track, that way there is no way for control data to record there. I use two midi interfaces, one for notes, one for cc messages. But your solution would work the same. So maybe Esencia, try again. It works great with faders and ReaMIDIControl. also, take a look at excellent Tack's solution :


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## EvilDragon (Mar 10, 2018)

Tack's solution tackles (sic!) a different problem.


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## esencia (Mar 10, 2018)

resonate said:


> So maybe Esencia, try again. It works great with faders and ReaMIDIControl. also, take a look at excellent Tack's solution :



I don't know if I got it...
As I own only one midi keyboard controller that holds faders and wheels on it.. if in
MIDI device Preferences I set "enabled input for control signals"
then... I cannot record any note .. :S

how could I cheat it?


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## tack (Mar 10, 2018)

Yeah, the terrible hack in that video isn't about getting CC performance data _into_ Reaper, but getting those CCs back out to a motorized control surface (or anything with feedback such as the MIDI Fighter Twister or Komplete Kontrol encoders, etc.) after the fact. 

(FWIW I'm integrating that into Reaticulate using a slightly different approach that won't require the crazy Bome translation rigmarole if you want to get CCs out on bus 0.)


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## Erick - BVA (Mar 10, 2018)

esencia said:


> Interesting...
> may I ask you why?
> are you using it for audio only or for midi productions?


Using it for everything. I love how custimizable it is. It just seems intuitive to me --but maybe because it's what I started with?
Apparently the notation aspect of it has gotten pretty powerful, but I haven't really utilized that yet. For me, the price tag is also one of the biggest arguments for it --60USD if you make under 20k from your music....which is most people in music, unfortunately.


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