# Unpopular Opinion: Not a fan of decapitator



## FrozenIcicle (Sep 23, 2021)

Is it me or does the decapitator destroy my synths and piano sounds? I find it's too harsh even on its default settings. 

Love the rest of soundtoys stuff but I'd happily swap decapitator for saturn


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Sep 23, 2021)

I do think it's often quite heavy handed on musical stuff. I mainly use it for game sound effects, where it can really help stuff sounding louder without having to push everything to clipping limits.

The level of control in Saturn makes it a much more musical distortion for me, so I'm pretty much on the same page.


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## FrozenIcicle (Sep 23, 2021)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> I do think it's often quite heavy handed on musical stuff. I mainly use it for game sound effects, where it can really help stuff sounding louder without having to push everything to clipping limits.
> 
> The level of control in Saturn makes it a much more musical distortion for me, so I'm pretty much on the same page.


Yep exactly, I keep seeing the pros use it on their tracks and create this hype around it. I don't get it


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## Mikro93 (Sep 23, 2021)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Is it me or does the decapitator destroy my synths and piano sounds?


Yes! But in the most beautiful way <3

I'm entirely biased and use it all the time, but it's because I like my synths like I like my economy.

But yeah, it may not be your taste


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## el-bo (Sep 23, 2021)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Is it me or does the decapitator destroy my synths and piano sounds? I find it's too harsh even on its default settings.


The clue is in the name. Perhaps what you’re after is ‘The Tickler’


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## Mikro93 (Sep 23, 2021)

el-bo said:


> The clue is in the name. Perhaps what you’re after is ‘The Tickler’


Ha ha

I would like the "Barely touch it, just make it sound good"er.


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## el-bo (Sep 23, 2021)

Mikro93 said:


> Ha ha
> 
> “Barely touch it, just make it sound good”


Haha! Are we still talking about audio effects? Sounds like my idea of a great night


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## KEM (Sep 23, 2021)

Decapitator definitely has its uses and I like it for sure, but lately I’ve been using Trash 2 and it’s much more versatile and sounds better to me


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## Trevor Meier (Sep 23, 2021)

Anyone have both Saturn and Spectre by Wavesfactory? Opinions between the two?


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## MartinH. (Sep 23, 2021)

Anyone here ever compared headcrusher to decapitator?


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## Living Fossil (Sep 23, 2021)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Is it me or does the decapitator destroy my synths and piano sounds? I find it's too harsh even on its default settings.


It's not meant to use decapitator on its "default settings".

There is a mix knob and there is a knob which lets you dampen the higher frequencies.
And there are 5 different algorithms which all have a different sound.

With a very low mix setting, attenuated high frequencies and mode A, E, or N you won't have a harsh sound.
But yes, there are different plugin that may be a better fit for the task (like Black Rooster's VPR-73)


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## ed buller (Sep 23, 2021)

the new SATURN from fabfilter has replaced it for me. Far more options and very very subtle if need be

best

e


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## jononotbono (Sep 23, 2021)

ed buller said:


> the new SATURN from fabfilter has replaced it for me. Far more options and very very subtle if need be
> 
> best
> 
> e


Saturn 2 is godlike! Love it so much!


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## gamma-ut (Sep 23, 2021)

I put distortion on stuff and it made it all distorted. 1/10 would not recommend.


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## el-bo (Sep 23, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Anyone here ever compared headcrusher to decapitator?


It would seem impossible, as to fully experience either one would severely inhibit one's chances of fully experiencing t'other


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## zwhita (Sep 23, 2021)

I think the Chandler module in small amounts for general purpose and Neve or Ampex in greater amounts for drums sound acceptable. If I could afford to spend $150 on a distortion plugin, Saturn might replace Decap, but I think that price is ridiculous. I did actually spend $100 on Output Thermal, and it just crashes Reaper, so I got a refund and that sort of shyed me from paying more than $70 for any single plugin.


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## MartinH. (Sep 23, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Anyone here ever compared headcrusher to decapitator?





el-bo said:


> It would seem impossible, as to fully experience either one would severely inhibit one's chances of fully experiencing t'other


Just to clarify, I'm talking about this kind of headcrushing:








Headcrusher


https://yorkshireaudio.com/demos/headcrusherdemomac.pkg https://yorkshireaudio.com/demos/headcrusherdemowin.exe https://yorkshireaudio.com/demos/headcrusherdemolinux.zip Head Crusher Analog Goodness Head Crusher is an analog modeled saturator, based on 4 different pieces of classic hardware.Head...




audioassault.mx





The name implies it is a clone of decapitator. I'd be curious how close they got.


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## Dietz (Sep 23, 2021)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Is it me or does the decapitator destroy my synths and piano sounds? I find it's too harsh even on its default settings.


What do you mean by "default settings"?  The default is actually "off", at least on my systems.

The magic button of Decapitator is the Mix knob. I use this plug-in on almost everything, but hardly ever fully wet - more like 10 to 20% distortion mixed in, with its top-end cut-off steeply.


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## FrozenIcicle (Sep 23, 2021)

Living Fossil said:


> It's not meant to use decapitator on its "default settings".
> 
> There is a mix knob and there is a knob which lets you dampen the higher frequencies.
> And there are 5 different algorithms which all have a different sound.
> ...


Ah yeh I should have worded it better, I meant I barely touch the drive. I usually put it on the Neve setting and darken it but I know what you mean.


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## vitocorleone123 (Sep 24, 2021)

I don't like Decapitator, either.

So, SO many alternatives now. I tried Decapitator a couple years ago and... promptly looked elsewhere. While I have plenty of one-off saturator type plugins (e.g., NEOLD, HG2MS, DozerDrive, etc. etc. etc.), I generally just use 3.

1) Kush Omega TWK - fast and easy warmer saturation
2) Fabfilter Saturn2 - dial in the subtle to moderate (don't like the heavy) with precision control
3) Blue Cat's Destructor - dial in the subtle (but pretty simple vs. FF S2) all the way to heavy destruction


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## Junolab (Sep 24, 2021)

Try Kelvin. It's superb and I haven't used Decapitator since I got it. But there's tons of saturators out there. It's all about the subtle uses of it.


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## AudioLoco (Sep 25, 2021)

Decapitator was the first distortion plugin to actually sound amazing. 
Up to then, for that kind of saturation, it was only OTB analog: distorting preamps, amps, a sansamp, guitar pedals.

Its sound on full tilt on vocals has became a bit clichè in modern productions.

I still use it often, generally on very low settings, on many instrument types. 
Although I don't see a lot of uses for a distortion unit for (non hybrid) orchestral stuff anyhow.


Anyhow its tone may not be everyone's cup of tea, it's not the only saturator out there anymore but, I personally still really like it...


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## Zoot_Rollo (Sep 25, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I don't like Decapitator, either.
> 
> So, SO many alternatives now. I tried Decapitator a couple years ago and... promptly looked elsewhere. While I have plenty of one-off saturator type plugins (e.g., NEOLD, HG2MS, DozerDrive, etc. etc. etc.), I generally just use 3.
> 
> ...


same - bought the bundle and never use any of it.

i use the 3 you listed as well.

Blue Cat is amazing.


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## sostenuto (Sep 25, 2021)

Kush Omega TWK fits personal 'subtle' preference.
Blue Cat @ $99. seems waaay out of range _ imho
_Never closed-minded, and open to persuading comment._ 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## NULL_Bits (Sep 25, 2021)

Does anyone know of a sort of DeCRAPitator type plugin I can put on the master bus that magically makes it so my mixes don’t sound like crap?


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## Megreen (Sep 25, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> Decapitator was the first distortion plugin to actually sound amazing.
> Up to then, for that kind of saturation, it was only OTB analog: distorting preamps, amps, a sansamp, guitar pedals.


That's true and that's what people ignore which explains why it became popular.


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## vitocorleone123 (Sep 25, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Kush Omega TWK fits personal 'subtle' preference.
> Blue Cat @ $99. seems waaay out of range _ imho
> _Never closed-minded, and open to persuading comment._ 🤷🏻‍♂️


I can only suggest to download and try the demo. Be sure to dig into the middle section where you can get into the oversampled waveshaping distortion aspect. The surface level stuff is great, but all guitar distortion models. You have to get into the middle a bit more if you want to control it and be subtle.

I've never regretted the $99. If I add up the money "wasted" on superfluous distortion plugins that cost less I rarely, if ever use, it'd far exceed the $99 

There's no multiband or mid-side, though. Which is where Saturn2 comes in.


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## Quasar (Sep 25, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Anyone here ever compared headcrusher to decapitator?


Nope, but a while back there was a food fight over at gearspace because some were saying that Head Crusher was a blatant ripoff of Decapitator, and that what Audio Assault was doing wasn't right.

This inspired me to check out Head Crusher and purchase it because it's both far less expensive and lacks the draconian CP of the Soundtoys stuff. I can't have a PACE driver on my machine because I'm allergic.

I like Head Crusher a lot for what it does well, which is provide _a very tiny bit_ of dirt. But it's like a pungent spice in which a little goes a long way, and using too much will ruin the sauce.


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## MartinH. (Sep 26, 2021)

Quasar said:


> I like Head Crusher a lot for what it does well, which is provide _a very tiny bit_ of dirt. But it's like a pungent spice in which a little goes a long way, and using too much will ruin the sauce.



Thanks! I always thought it's something that's supposed to strongly shape the sound and turn a soft sound like a sine wave into something aggressive. Never fully warmed up to it, maybe because I was using it wrong.


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## Trevor Meier (Sep 26, 2021)

If you’re demoing plugins like saturators that generate lots of HF content, it’s a good idea to confirm they properly handle the harmonics they create. It’s pretty easy: process a 20Hz-24KHz sine sweep in RX 8 (or similar) using the plugin and look for frequencies bouncing off the Nyquist barrier (top of the spectrograph). 

Had a rude awakening recently when I realized some mixes that weren’t working were thanks to badly aliasing saturation plugins (I’m looking at you, Scheps Omni Channel).


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## vitocorleone123 (Sep 26, 2021)

Trevor Meier said:


> If you’re demoing plugins like saturators that generate lots of HF content, it’s a good idea to confirm they properly handle the harmonics they create. It’s pretty easy: process a 20Hz-24KHz sine sweep in RX 8 (or similar) using the plugin and look for frequencies bouncing off the Nyquist barrier (top of the spectrograph).
> 
> Had a rude awakening recently when I realized some mixes that weren’t working were thanks to badly aliasing saturation plugins (I’m looking at you, Scheps Omni Channel).


Yes. Always good to try to choose saturation/distortion tools with oversampling, either built in (some have it and turn it off is using 96khz+ in your DAW) or explicit (e.g., a choice of 2x, 4x, etc.). I believe Decapitator also aliases, but could be wrong. Sometimes aliasing is no big deal as you don't care and it sounds good. Other times, not. I usually prefer having the choice.

Just like with EQs cramping at Nyquist. Not always bad, but not always OK, either.

Side note: TWK, Destructor, and Saturn 2 all have oversampling 

If seeing/experiencing aliasing in a plugin, sometimes working at 96khz will get rid of the issue. Or you can also try DDMF Metaplugin and brute force some oversampling to see if it helps.


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## sostenuto (Sep 26, 2021)

Cool Thread ! Broadened perspective. Direct impact _ adding TWK. 👌


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## rsg22 (Sep 26, 2021)

Trevor Meier said:


> Had a rude awakening recently when I realized some mixes that weren’t working were thanks to badly aliasing saturation plugins (I’m looking at you, Scheps Omni Channel).


Interesting. Do you know if the same is true of their other saturation plugins? Kramer tape, NLS, J37 etc...


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## Trevor Meier (Sep 26, 2021)

Waves had an innovative way of dealing with aliasing in the Renaissance / L2 era, so plugins from around that time don’t suffer from this problem. Almost everything recent of theirs that I’ve seen doesn’t do any filtering against aliasing. For some plugins it’s not a problem, but if there are lots of harmonics (eg limiters, saturation, heavy compression) those harmonics reflect without any limit. 

If you’re using a plugin gently, aliasing is not likely to build up to an audible range, but it does change the feel. It’s a primary difference in “feel” between analog and digital: analog handles generated harmonics by fading out and blending them as the limits of the hardware can no longer reproduce the represented frequencies. Digital is fundamentally different because of how the sampling theorem works. You can get a similar feel to analog with oversampling paired with proper filtering above nyquist, but it has to be done within the plugin at the point the harmonics are generated. If not, the harmonics reflect back and forth between nyquist and DC (0Hz). 

Oversampling helps, but only if the harmonics are filtered. Running at 96KHz can actually exacerbate the problem if the plugin doesn’t have those filters by creating even more intermodulation distortion that reflects back into the audible range. There are a few hacks using Metaplugin and ultrasonic filtering, but in my tests so far (eg with Scheps Omni Channel) it doesn’t improve things very much, at the cost of a lot of workflow hassle and performance. 

FWIW, Spectre by Waves Factory antialiases properly in Good and Best modes. For a channel strip, I’ve replaced Scheps with CS-5501 by TB Pro Audio which has similar functionality and properly implements filtering with it’s oversampling. Most plugins by Analog Obsession work well, and everything by Tokyo Dawn Labs expertly overcomes aliasing problems.


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## Eckoes (Sep 26, 2021)

I love it but it doesn’t always do the job. I find that the other SoundToys plugins like Radiator and Devil-Loc can fill in the gaps. Heck sometimes I use Echo Boy just as a saturator.

The trick with all of them is the mix knob.

Im sure the more recent offerings from Fab Filter etc are more versatile these days but I don’t find myself wanting.


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## CATDAD (Sep 26, 2021)

Living Fossil said:


> It's not meant to use decapitator on its "default settings".
> 
> There is a mix knob and there is a knob which lets you dampen the higher frequencies.
> And there are 5 different algorithms which all have a different sound.
> ...


Great shoutout to Black Rooster's VPRE-73, some real smooth 1073-like distortion with a minimalist approach! Gotta love that its layout is just 2 fat knobs and a trim.

I've really liked the sound of their newest release, the Omnitec-67A. It's modeling the same type of hardware unit as Soundtoys Radiator (which I also like) but sounds somewhat different. I told myself it couldn't possibly find a meaningful place among others, but I'll be damned if you can't get some nice crunchy sound running a bass guitar through it! You can also very quickly destroy a sound with it though as it was not made to be subtle by any means.

(both of these plugs are also designed to mitigate aliasing, for you nerds out there that can't stop thinking about it)


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## nuyo (Oct 3, 2021)

The plugin is called the DECAPITATOR so you know what to expect when you buy it.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Oct 3, 2021)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Is it me or does the decapitator destroy my synths and piano sounds? I find it's too harsh even on its default settings.
> 
> Love the rest of soundtoys stuff but I'd happily swap decapitator for saturn


It’s so old to write “Unpopular opinion” in the title of one’s thread. Change my mind.


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## FrozenIcicle (Oct 3, 2021)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> It’s so old to write “Unpopular opinion” in the title of one’s thread. Change my mind.


so is using "Change my mind" meme


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## Trash Panda (Oct 3, 2021)

FrozenIcicle said:


> so is using "Change my mind" meme


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## from_theashes (Oct 4, 2021)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Is it me or does the decapitator destroy my synths and piano sounds? I find it's too harsh even on its default settings.
> 
> Love the rest of soundtoys stuff but I'd happily swap decapitator for saturn


I always grab Radiator or Devil-Loc over Decapitator.


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## Kevin Fortin (Oct 6, 2021)

CATDAD said:


> I've really liked the sound of their newest release, the Omnitec-67A. It's modeling the same type of hardware unit as Soundtoys Radiator (which I also like) but sounds somewhat different. I told myself it couldn't possibly find a meaningful place among others, but I'll be damned if you can't get some nice crunchy sound running a bass guitar through it! You can also very quickly destroy a sound with it though as it was not made to be subtle by any means.


I'm glad you mentioned Black Rooster's new Omnitec-67A, because I've had my eye on that. I like what it did for the guitar and bass in the demo videos on their site, but I thought that applying it to the e-piano was a bad idea because that was already a pretty full sound. I've been checking the discussion on G-Space this afternoon to decide whether to go for it or wait for the next sale.


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## CATDAD (Oct 14, 2021)

Kevin Fortin said:


> I'm glad you mentioned Black Rooster's new Omnitec-67A, because I've had my eye on that. I like what it did for the guitar and bass in the demo videos on their site, but I thought that applying it to the e-piano was a bad idea because that was already a pretty full sound. I've been checking the discussion on G-Space this afternoon to decide whether to go for it or wait for the next sale.


Yeah, I also thought it was a bit unfair to have the processed signals be louder in their demos. I get it but it's not necessary, the change in sonic quality of the sound is significant on its own!

I'm replying quite late, but Black Rooster does also allow you to demo their plugins for 2 weeks, so give it a go if you haven't already!


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## mrnobody (Oct 14, 2021)

it really depends on the program material. i wouldn’t put it on a piano unless i want to smash (decapitate) it for an effect..

for synths, i find myself using it on lower register parts the most. sometimes aggressively and sometime barely doing anything, and or with a low mix.

decapitator is great on drums and percussion.

i guess it’s a matter of taste, and different tools for different sounds and results.


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## Crowe (Oct 14, 2021)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Is it me or does the decapitator destroy my synths and piano sounds? I find it's too harsh even on its default settings.
> 
> Love the rest of soundtoys stuff but I'd happily swap decapitator for saturn


Considering it's a mainstay for industrial I'm of the opinion it's exactly what it's supposed to be.


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## D-Mott (Oct 15, 2021)

I use saturn/decap. ect. I never really get a sound, But maybe it's the sounds that are going into the plugin that aren't so nice, but for distortion and tape saturation, there must be a real art to it.


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## vitocorleone123 (Oct 15, 2021)

Crowe said:


> Considering it's a mainstay for industrial I'm of the opinion it's exactly what it's supposed to be.


There's nothing wrong with using Decapitator. It was probably the first genuinely good distortion plugin.

And,_ not saying this is the case for anyone in this thread_, I've certainly read many instances online where, because it was first, it seems that's all people know (including professionals) and they think it's still the best of the best. That's no longer the case. It's one of the best, but there's now many other options.

On the other hand, there's a lot to be said for using a good tool if it lets you get to your results fastest, even if it's no longer the best of the best (parallel: ProQ3) <--- this last point is something for people who don't like Decapitator to keep in mind.

I, personally, think others sound better, even when just trashing the sound, and certainly for subtlety. That's in addition to the above. But, ultimately, it's about getting the results that sound good as quickly as possible to get on with making/delivering the music.


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## zvenx (Oct 15, 2021)

As others have already said, the magic is in the mix knob.
Most times I use it it is at about 20% or less.
rsp


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## Crowe (Oct 15, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> There's nothing wrong with using Decapitator. It was probably the first genuinely good distortion plugin.
> 
> And,_ not saying this is the case for anyone in this thread_, I've certainly read many instances online where, because it was first, it seems that's all people know (including professionals) and they think it's still the best of the best. That's no longer the case. It's one of the best, but there's now many other options.
> 
> ...


My point was, and maybe I was just late to the party, that I've never known Decapitator to *not* be harsh and extreme. I didn't know it *has* a subtle setting. I'm one of those people who think it's one of the best at what it does, but I'm also confused that anyone thought it was meant to do subtle in the first place.


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## Crossroads (Oct 15, 2021)

I find secretly that Cubase's own Quadrafuzz is still my favourite. Secretly Steinberg have very good plugin developers on board.

If only they had a frequency/MS/left-right splitter/chainer like Studio One. That thing is just too cool for school.


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## lux (Oct 15, 2021)

I don't have Decapitator (though I got a good bunch of mentioned alternatives) but from the videos it looks like most people use it in parallel mode to add character/edge to bass and drums mostly. Usually those types of sat/dist sound like crap when applied one hundred percent, as their sound is shaped to basically add harmonics in the right doses to make some sounds shine or eventually translate on smaller speakers (very often a problem with bass).

Have to say that I recently got Lifeline Expanse from Plugin Boutique and I ended up using it quite a lot (almost addicted have to confess), despite it being a cpu hog.

I purchased the mentioned Kush TWK a while ago, but it's a totally different beast for me as it's a perfect "warmer", very good if you got a thin sound to give a boost on the mid-lows. This same character makes it for me hardly usable on low end instruments, where I mostly use saturation in parallel mode to get an additional "nasty" layer of harmonics more in the mid area and have the sounds come out where needed.

Oh, btw, do not underestimate the power of the many great Analog Obsession plugins (Brit pre, Konsol, Prebox, SPre, Transature, TuPre, FetDrive, Distox, Fetsnap), as they produce a nice saturation tone when used in mix/parallel mode.


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## Trash Panda (Oct 15, 2021)

Decapitator is like any other plugin. It adds its own flavor to the sound. Not everyone will like said flavor and not every scenario will make sense for that flavor. Not sure why that's a contentious take. 

People need to get over their need for confirmation bias.


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## mholloway (Oct 15, 2021)

Guy on internet doesn't like a plugin! News at Eleven!

The OP seems to think that because lots of people like something and he doesn't, this is somehow worthy of an entire thread? <shrug>. 

Decapitator is extremely useful in many cases for me personally, mostly for giving synths some grit and warmth. It does not have to be harsh. Just pushing the dial up to 2 on a soft-synth will give it some nice grit and boost. And, as stated many times, using the Mix knob helps back-off the effect when necessary.

Are there "better" plugins for this task? That's so subjective. Saturn 2 is nice but has a zillion more controls than decapitator -- and sometimes when I want to give some boost and grit to a thin-sounding soft-synth, a zillion controls are not what I need nor want to spend time with. A plugin like Decapitator is quick, reliable, gets the job done.


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## jcrosby (Oct 15, 2021)

Crowe said:


> My point was, and maybe I was just late to the party, that I've never known Decapitator to *not* be harsh and extreme. I didn't know it *has* a subtle setting. I'm one of those people who think it's one of the best at what it does, but I'm also confused that anyone thought it was meant to do subtle in the first place.


But the name clearly suggests it was intended to be gentle! Now if it were named beheader? Or Guillotine?
Totally different ballgame


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## el-bo (Oct 15, 2021)

mholloway said:


> The OP seems to think that because lots of people like something and he doesn't, this is somehow worthy of an entire thread? <shrug>.


Thankfully, though. Else, where would you have put the reply you wrote?


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## Russell Anderson (Nov 24, 2021)

Trevor Meier said:


> Anyone have both Saturn and Spectre by Wavesfactory? Opinions between the two?


So, I got both. Here are my 2 dollars, adjusted for inflation.

- I just like EQ workflow better than multiband. It’s like this for compression, and for saturation, so that’s one thing.
- Saturn I find better for moving material that you want to make 3D, because of envelope follower modulation. Setting it to m/s mode and dialing in peak-following m/s balances, and ducking the saturation on peaks, you can get lost in the process for awhile in MB sometimes but if you keep it subtle and find something that works, the front-to-back and spatial differences can be truly shocking, and the saturation types are all swell to boot. I’m particularly fond of the transformer, but it’s all good. Obviously you can get into sound design with this plugin, too.
- Spectre I use sooometimes for boosting but more often than not, in De-emphasis mode and I love playing with m/s/l/r. I don’t have as much to say besides I am so happy to have this plugin now and it will probably be on everything. It’s what I like about Saturn, minus the movement but with all the stereo beef and silk and the de-emphasis setting is magic. Adding just harmonics where you choose to is amazingly powerful, I will be shooting them a feature request for SlickEQ M controls for stereo morphing like SlickEQ borrowed as well. I have demo’d both of these plugins for more than 6 months, I shit you not, and have had a hard time deciding which I like better. I think they just excel at different things. A harder question might be, Spectre or Omega 458A/Type A? Spectre or Satin? Saturn or m/s dynamic EQ/MB compression or peak-modulated m/s MSpectralPan?


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