# Thoughts on Heavyocity's New Gravity Pack (02): Vocalise



## catsass (Oct 5, 2015)

Vocalise - Gravity Pack 02...Looks purdy cool! $79 until Oct. 12th


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## Rob Elliott (Oct 5, 2015)

hmmm - hadn't really given Gravity a long look....until this. Could be useful. Thanks for pointing out.


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## catsass (Oct 5, 2015)

Daniel James is giving it a go live at the moment:

EDIT:
DJ's wrapped up his "first look"
I'm sure he'll post it on YouTube shortly.
Hopefully he may pop in here and give us the skinny.


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## Harry (Oct 5, 2015)

is there a discount for full Gravity owners?


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## Bunford (Oct 5, 2015)

Harry said:


> is there a discount for full Gravity owners?


Not sure. I know if you buy Gravity now you get it for free with it, so you'd imagine that would equate to a discount for current Gravity owners.


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## X-Bassist (Oct 5, 2015)

Good live stream from DJ, thanks Catsass!  He has a link to it on his Twitter page:

https://mobile.twitter.com/h2daniel


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## SomeGuy (Oct 5, 2015)

I wish there was a way to make expansions show up in Gravity as subfolders instead of as separate instruments in kontakts library pane.


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## Harry (Oct 5, 2015)

Bunford said:


> Not sure. I know if you buy Gravity now you get it for free with it, so you'd imagine that would equate to a discount for current Gravity owners.


You would think so but ... seems not. Surely a no-brainer to give discounts for Gravity owners. Would encourage sales of the main product, and reward loyal customers ...


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## SomeGuy (Oct 5, 2015)

Harry said:


> You would think so but ... seems not. Surely a no-brainer to give discounts for Gravity owners. Would encourage sales of the main product, and reward loyal customers ...


+1! Would have purchased it already if there was a loyalty discount like the pervious expansion.


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## catsass (Oct 5, 2015)

I took the plunge, fired it up, and immediately Punished Carla.


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## Daniel James (Oct 5, 2015)

I am loving it! Live streamed it for a few hours today.

Here is the track I wrote with it: 


and here is a archive of the live stream: 


-DJ


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## playz123 (Oct 5, 2015)

Very nice DJ.....and you write faster than some of us do.


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## playz123 (Oct 5, 2015)

SomeGuy said:


> +1! Would have purchased it already if there was a loyalty discount like the pervious expansion.


When one considers the cost of production, the low price and the fact it is 'on sale' right now, I'm not sure it's very cost effective for Heavyocity to lower the low price even more. I mean they are a business and do need to make a profit. I purchased Gravity when it was first released, but I for one, don't feel the current price should stop anyone from buying it. Like others though, it would be nice if it fit into Gravity somehow. But as per previous threads, it may not be feasible.


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## Vastman (Oct 5, 2015)

It really ticks me off those of us who sprung for Gravity are being asked to pay $79... $20 off??? *wupdedo*! THAT AIN'T A FRIGGIN SALE TO ME, DUDE! Natural forces was $39 for Gravity owners...which seemed fair.

While I love the add-on, have lots of vocals and being asked to pay nearly full price while others get it free??? Might be my last Heavy product for awhile...

*I always just bought... Gravity was a costly investment... being sent an email asking $79 for it is insulting.
*
I totally disagree with you, playz123... _I NEVER would have invested so much in Gravity if I'd known all these new packs were coming out and I could have just gotten them...AT THE SAME PRICE OR *FREE* WITH GRAVITY!!! INDEED, THEY DON'T EVEN OPEN IN GRAVITY!
_
Then again, who am I? Definitely too poor to feel this is cool at all...


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## Vastman (Oct 5, 2015)

Rob Elliott said:


> hmmm - hadn't really given Gravity a long look....until this. Could be useful. Thanks for pointing out.


You DON'T NEED GRAVITY FOR ANY OF THESE!!! It's what really burns me! We're getting NO discount beyond what everyone's getting, we really didn't need to buy Gravity... I recommend that you DON'T if this is how it's gonna play out... take our money, no loyalty discount and we can't even use this inside of gravity!!!

If you like Vocalise, get it... personally I think it's wonderful...much more useful than much of what Gravity has within it, at least for my style of writing... and a way better deal for all of you who didn't jump onto the Gravity train like me.

I own EVERY Heavy product... I'm beyond pissed at how this is playing out... Gravity was EXPENSIVE... and we get dick...

My "autobuy" for Heavyocity??? *Looks like it has been crushed under the "GRAVITY" of this loyalty neglect*...


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## gbar (Oct 5, 2015)

Meh, it is not a bad price for what it is at 80 bucks. I do not see it doing well at 100 , though.

Niche product.


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## erica-grace (Oct 5, 2015)

Vastman said:


> You DON'T NEED GRAVITY FOR ANY OF THESE!!! It's what really burns me! We're getting NO discount beyond what everyone's getting, we really didn't need to buy Gravity... I recommend that you DON'T if this is how it's gonna play out...



Umm, I really do not think that recommending people do not buy something just because YOU don't like the way it is priced, is too nice. In fact, if my bf were here, he would say "that guy just isn't cool".

Don't these products take time and effort to make? Don't they take money to make? Why should everything have a loyalty discount? I have been seeing stuff like this on this forum since I started lurking a while back. Discount this, discount that. People seem to feel that because they own a lot of products from one particular company, that they are _entitled_ to a discount for a new product. Why is that, exactly? The people who own and run these very small companies - aren't they _entitled_ to make some money?


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## gsilbers (Oct 5, 2015)

Those initially are priced high to recoup. im waiting for it to come down. 
and waiting maybe for the "Braaaams" expansion


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## chillbot (Oct 5, 2015)

erica-grace said:


> Why should everything have a loyalty discount?



I dunno... why indeed? Wish it did though. I think there was possibly a loyalty discount when it first came out but I missed it, and have been too stubborn to give in to the 449 price which, just in my opinion, is too high compared to what else is on the market. It's like in the real estate market pricing a home for $2M when all comps in the area are going for $1M. Hey but sometimes they actually sell for $2M. That's their prerogative they can price it however they want.

For example I picked up Project Alpha, Project Bravo, and Oracle for 400 instead of buying Gravity for 449. I can't say if all three together are as great as Gravity since I don't own Gravity but I would rather spend the money to get 3 libraries instead of the 1. And they are very good. I wrote Heavyocity to see if they might extend a loyalty discount to me and never heard back. That fine. Since I wrote to them, I've bought the three libraries above, plus Shreddage IBZ, CinePerc Aux, Kenetic Metal, The Foundry, Rev X-Loops, Temple Drums, Shou Drum, Terracotta... in short I spent over 1,400 instead of buying Gravity, which I would like to have. See quote which sums it up for me:



Vastman said:


> My "autobuy" for Heavyocity??? *Looks like it has been crushed under the "GRAVITY" of this loyalty neglect*...



This is the reason for a loyalty discount. My auto-buy has been on for years for everything Heavyocity (and a few other devs) but somehow I missed this or passed because of the $$ I forget. Most of the time when Heavyocity or Sample Logic or whoever comes out with a product I don't even listen to the demos or walkthroughs I just buy it. I think that's why some of us feel "entitled" (I hate that word) to a loyalty discount. And what's the difference really between "loyalty discounts" and what pretty much every dev does, package 2 or 3 or more products together. If I want to buy everything 8dio offers, I certainly would not expect to pay sticker price for every product. Look right on their website there's a category for "Bundles (MAX DISCOUNT)" so most of us feel that buying every product or 90% of all products from a certain developer should be good for something?


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## Vastman (Oct 5, 2015)

erica... I think I explained it sufficiently... Gravity was a high priced piece; *Those of us who bought it paid thru the "nose" for that engine... it would be one thing if these ad pacs were coming out for use with Gravity... But they aren't... Library after library are coming out with mostly the same engine for free, with wonderful new realms for ANYONE to use...you DON'T even having to own the high priced mother ship that I dug deep to get...* I feel totally justified letting folks know they needn't spend this money... especially as it seems to afford those of us who bought it with NO discounts after the investment, compared to people just swooping in to pick up the ad pacs...for the same price! I would have NEVER spent that money if I could just sit back and pick up inexpensive ad pacs and get 90% of the Gravity engine for free... OY!

I support a raft of small companies... Heavy is NOT a small company of starving developers...I happen to be one, though... and will be more careful in the future...

Maybe if I were some rich movie producer I wouldn't be so frustrated at the moment... but I'm not and I am...

chillbot: Your buying decision was REAL smart... I will learn from this mistake.

and with that, I'm out... no need to keep complaining. I've made my point. Would love the vocals but unless we receive the "Gravity" deals like Natural Forces, I must resist as a matter of principal...and consider how this has worked out going forward..


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## playz123 (Oct 5, 2015)

I'll just add if someone doesn't like the product as it is or thinks $79 is too much, then simply don't buy it and move on. But this argument that one is "entitled" to something just because they bought Gravity is, in my opinion" spurious at best. I don't see any need to 'dis' a product just because it doesn't sell for what someone wants to pay. Anyway, everyone IS "entitled" to their opinion. I just don't see any reason to get worked up about an inexpensive product though.

@Rob....Very happy with Gravity, Rob, and I think you would really like many of its features and the sound. Since I bought it, I've used it a LOT and it's actually replaced some of my other libraries. Do check out the demos and walkthroughs and see what you think.


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## jtnyc (Oct 5, 2015)

Vastman, Gravity is 12 gig's of samples with 1200 nki's. That's quite a bit material that you wouldn't have. I agree that $450 feels a bit high, but from what I've heard, it comes with some great sounds. If you just were to skip the mothership and just get the ad packs then you wouldn't own Gravity. Are you disappointed in Gravity? I'm curious because you say it was a mistake to buy it. I like what I've heard and seen, but haven't pulled the trigger. Is Gravity great or not so much?...

Thanks


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## SeattleComposer (Oct 5, 2015)

I have not bought Gravity. 
I did buy Natural Forces.
I will buy Vocalise. Yes. I am the guy that Gravity owners hate. At $79, these libraries are fantastic.


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## jtnyc (Oct 5, 2015)

SeattleComposer said:


> . Yes. I am the guy that Gravity owners hate. At $79, these libraries are fantastic.



but you don't own the 12 gigs of samples and 1200 presets that come in Gravity


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## ChazC (Oct 5, 2015)

I have Gravity, NF Lite & NF. From what I've heard Vocalise sounds fantastic, and I'm really tempted but I have this voice screaming away inside my head that in 6-8 months all these 'powered by Gravity' VI's (they aren't add-ons) will be released in a bundle for a ridiculous discount & (if I were Heavyocity's marketing department) include a 'bundle only' unique library to boot.

We've had 2 libraries now in as many months so a bundle of 6+1 for example for $399 or so around March would make perfect sense from a marketing point of view. Unfortunately it's a policy I don't agree with & I'd like to see a bit of consideration for previous Gravity purchasers but, it is what it is & I'll possibly pick up Vocalise for $79 & draw a line under it all. Don't get me wrong, I think Gravity is a fantastic instrument and although a little pricey it certainly wasn't stupid money. These new libraries however change the playing field at $79 ($99), it's not so much the price, it's the whole philosophy that I have a problem with.

The whole thing would sit a LOT better with me if these were actual add-ons that required Gravity, I could understand that; but making these things 'powered by Gravity'? Just seems like a bit of a slap in the face to previous customers tbh (not to mention being a royal pain not being able to add them into Gravity itself). Although it pains me to say it, it reminds me to a lesser extent of Avid's attitude to its customers tbh.

Anyway, Gravity is great & Vocalise sounds fantastic from what I've heard but I'm just very jaded about the whole precident Heavyocity have set with it all.

Shame.


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## Vastman (Oct 5, 2015)

*ChazC...* WORD!!!

*jtnyc...*Gravity is nice, as are Alpha/Bravo/Oracle/juggernaght/rev/signal...I have loads of HoC impacts already, owning it all... I'd probably make more use of NF and Vocalise. and the latter is definitely a new zone for HoC... so, if I could cancel knowing what I know now... ie, all these inexpensive "powered by" are coming out, yes, I would...Gravity was a huge premium and I think ChazC summarized my feelings well. If they come in with a 39$ discount for "Gravity" owners I'll reconsider but at this point, I'm done... "jaded" is the word... never imagined feeling this way about that company.

And now it occurs to me that _this is most likely a Komplete product add in ploy/play..._ which will further my ugh about paying these prices after the heavy Gravity investment.

*Playz123...* I am here voicing my frustration... telling me that _if I don't like Heavy's ploy I should just "move on" _is sanctimonious twaddle... expressing our feelings is the only option we have when a company makes decisions we don't appreciate. I've bought *everything* they've put out... and am angry... as a heavily invested human of modest means I have a right to convey my thoughts.


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## jtnyc (Oct 5, 2015)

Hmm... I still don't get it. Not trying to rub you guys the wrong way, it's just, if these expansions didn't come out would you be happy with Gravity or not? Now that they did come out, you regret buying Gravity, but they are different products with different sounds. It feels like you guys are upset because other people can own another product (that is significantly smaller in footprint and cost) that uses the same technology (The Gravity engine). Just doesn't add up for me. I suppose if Gravity isn't knocking your socks off and there was already some buyers remorse, I could see the regret, but I can't see how HO is in the wrong here. Would an additional $20 discount really reverse all the angst you now have for HO? Just saying, it all seems a bit "heavy".....


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## jtnyc (Oct 5, 2015)

By the way, Rev X-loops is the same thing. You don't have to own Rev. It runs on it's own with the Rev engine. Output offers a $20 discount to Rev owners, which is the same thing HO is offering right now


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## ChazC (Oct 5, 2015)

jtnyc said:


> Output offers a $20 discount to Rev owners, which is the same thing HO is offering right now



No it isn't. Natural Forces was $39 if you owned Gravity. Vocalise is $79 regardless until the 12th (or whenever). Makes no difference if you have Gravity or not.


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## jtnyc (Oct 5, 2015)

Rev X-Loops is $99, but $79 if you own Rev

Vocalise is $99, but $79 for anyone - same 20% off

You still get the discount, but the point I was really making was, Output did the same exact thing as HO. They made an expansion of Rev (X-loops) that costs $99 and can be used by someone who doesn't own Rev. Is that wrong as well? I just don't see the problem with this.

As far as the $39 discount on NF, that's great that they did that, but what, now they have to keep that price point for all other expansions just because you bought Gravity. You bought 12 gigs of highly edited and processed samples in a cutting edge engine. That's what you paid for and that's what you got. Any discounts on other products going forward should be appreciated but not expected and certainly not demanded IMO.

As far as Vocalise being more than NF, maybe working with real singers as opposed to creating and processing the material for NF was more costly. We don't know. Maybe they were just being very generous with the $39 MF pricing being it was the first one.


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## ChazC (Oct 6, 2015)

jtnyc said:


> Rev X-Loops is $99, but $79 if you own Rev
> 
> Vocalise is $99, but $79 for anyone - same 20% off



How do you figure that is the same? I don't own REV so X-Loops would cost me $99 not $79. 

By your own argument of 'same', Gravity owners should get an extra discount off Vocalise - which they don't. Everyone gets the $20 discount 'til the 12th. 

That would be the same regardless of how much they value it at - moot point.


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## Harry (Oct 6, 2015)

My issue is not that Heavyocity are offering these new sound packs, but that those who purchase Gravity now will get Vocalise for Free. Those who purchased it originally have to pay $79. That's why a discount for those who own the full Gravity would sit a lot better (and they'd sell a lot more!).


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## D.Salzenberg (Oct 6, 2015)

I bought Gravity recently and got the full Natural Forces pack for free. I love both, but I am VERY annoyed that the 'expansion packs ' are not expansion packs at all, but standalone products that don't open in Gravity, and that you don't need Gravity for. This is just ridiculous. The right way would have been to make these packs open in Gravity to access the full functionality, but maybe run standalone with a much more limited functionality. That way it would be an incentive to buy Gravity and wouldn't have been what I agree is a bit of an insult to those who bought the full software. Will probably still buy Vocalise, but not happy at all with how they have approached this.


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## playz123 (Oct 6, 2015)

ChazC said:


> No it isn't. Natural Forces was $39 if you owned Gravity. Vocalise is $79 regardless until the 12th (or whenever). Makes no difference if you have Gravity or not.


 Natural Forces was discounted further IF you were an early purchaser of Gravity, but if one bought Gravity after it was released, the pack was $79. It apears that was a one time offer. Offers have varied depending on the time frame of what was purchased when.


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## jtnyc (Oct 6, 2015)

ChazC said:


> How do you figure that is the same? I don't own REV so X-Loops would cost me $99 not $79.
> 
> By your own argument of 'same', Gravity owners should get an extra discount off Vocalise - which they don't. Everyone gets the $20 discount 'til the 12th.
> 
> That would be the same regardless of how much they value it at - moot point.



My argument is that your still getting a 20% discount. That is the same. In this case, everyone can get that discount. Why do you feel slighted by this? Would you feel better if only Gravity owners got it for $79 and everyone else had to pay $99? How would that benefit you? It's still $79 to you. It seems your issue is not the discounted price, but the fact that as a gravity owner, it is not exclusive to you. In terms of money spent, it's the same. 

Also, by "same" I was referring to the fact that Output released an expansion pack (X-Loops) that runs without owning the original product (Rev) which is what HO has been heavily criticized for here, although I believe it was Vastman who did that.


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## woodsdenis (Oct 6, 2015)

This is a 3gb library that runs on the Gravity engine, a steal @ $79. I do own Gravity I am not upset at all.


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## Vastman (Oct 6, 2015)

D.Salzenberg said:


> I bought Gravity recently and got the full Natural Forces pack for free. I love both, but I am VERY annoyed that the 'expansion packs ' are not expansion packs at all, but standalone products that don't open in Gravity, and that you don't need Gravity for. This is just ridiculous. The right way would have been to make these packs open in Gravity to access the full functionality, but maybe run standalone with a much more limited functionality. That way it would be an incentive to buy Gravity and wouldn't have been what I agree is a bit of an insult to those who bought the full software. Will probably still buy Vocalise, but not happy at all with how they have approached this.



agree whole heartedly. I was very surprised that Gravity engine can't be put to use on these new samples. Last hi-priced engine I buy...

btw, Daniel... you did a bang up job as usual... thank you...for stoking my interest and angst! Love the new "hair"!!!


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## playz123 (Oct 6, 2015)

woodsdenis said:


> This is a 3gb library that runs on the Gravity engine, a steal @ $79. I do own Gravity I am not upset at all.


Exactly. As I said above, everyone is entitled to their opinion or to rant if they are so inclined, but I would guess that most people are happy with the offer and have better things to do than complain about a $79 product.  I for one, am moving on to other topics.


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## Vastman (Oct 6, 2015)

playz123 said:


> Exactly. As I said above, everyone is entitled to their opinion or to rant if they are so inclined, but I would guess that most people are happy with the offer and have better things to do than complain about a $79 product.  I for one, am moving on to other topics.


I don't think anyone's complaining about this particular "$79 product"... It's more about Gravity how these spinoffs don't work in the costly engine and the lack of regard for gravity owners... I've posted my frustrations to several DAW forums and elsewhere and I can tell you, there are lots of folks in agreement with my concerns and frustrations. I'm sure HoC doesn't care...they're doing quite well, I'm sure... but at this point if it causes some people to realize the direction this is going, that's fine with me. And I doubt you're _"moving on"_, Frank... you haven't yet!


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## catsass (Oct 6, 2015)

Daniel James said:


> I am loving it! Live streamed it for a few hours today.
> -DJ


I like the way the track turned out. Thanks for sharing your maiden voyage into the depths of Vocalise.


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## Soundhound (Oct 6, 2015)

Yup, I think it's not great marketing/pricing, doesn't make customers feel valued by the company. I like their stuff, but for people who shelled out for the full Gravity early on on, the discount on the 'extensions' should be more than $99>$79. $39 seems about right, especially since those who buy Gravity now get it for free.


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## D.Salzenberg (Oct 6, 2015)

I'm only guessing here of course, but I wouldnt be surprised if they didn't sell as many copies of Gravity as they hoped, probably because it was priced a bit too high, so what originally were going to be actual proper expansion packs for the full Gravity, they decided they could better recoup their investment in the development of the Gravity engine and make more profit by selling Gravity Packs which aren't expansion packs at all in any description of the term.


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## SomeGuy (Oct 6, 2015)

I think the problem is people were lead to believe that you'd need the full Gravity in order to run any future expansion packs, but it now looks like all "expansions" will be their own product and thus you didn't need to invest in Gravity at all. At least thats the way I'm reading it. But perhaps D. Salzenberg's point is true, and it make sense as selling these expansions as independent products allows them more potential customers, but either way I can understand why customers who invested in the gravity engine feel like they have been "bait and switched."


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## D.Salzenberg (Oct 6, 2015)

I'm still happy with my purchase of Gravity it's great, but think they could have handled the Gravity Packs much better.


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## ChazC (Oct 6, 2015)

D.Salzenberg said:


> I'm still happy with my purchase of Gravity it's great, but think they could have handled the Gravity Packs much better.



Likewise.

I do feel that more and more companies are losing touch with the fundamentals of customer relations (just look at Avid in the extreme).

Anyway, I've bought Vocalise but we'll just wait and see what GP03 brings & how it's handled. If NF & Vocalise have sold reasonably well we may very well see a 'Gravity Only' pack...


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## woodsdenis (Oct 6, 2015)

Well moving on , if thats at all possible around here  Its really is a fantastic library. I think of it like this, if Gravity had never existed, we would all I am sure be jumping on this. It still uses the Gravity engine so the sound sculpting is immense. I actually prefer it separated that way, much less cluttered. 

Lets be honest we buy into Heavyocity products because their standard is so high and this is up to that.

I never expected there to be free add ons to Gravity so I really think this library is great value, would I like it for free, sure, but I don't mind paying for quality and its not expensive. As usual YMMV.


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## catsass (Oct 6, 2015)

Denis, I wholeheartedly agree with you.


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## Ryan99 (Oct 6, 2015)

There was a pre-order offer for Gravity with the first expansion free. Then, for those who missed it, they could get a rebate on that first expansion compared to those who didn't buy Gravity. The way I see it, that's where you got your discount for buying Gravity.

After that, Heavyocity doesn't have to offer a perpetual loyalty discount on all expansions. I don't see any company giving rebate on all following expansions, even if it can be used as a standalone. I understand that it's a high price to pay for Gravity, but me I waited and got all their products either with Komplete Ultimate or with substantial rebates a while after the release.

Being an early follower gives you the advantage to use Gravity before anyone else. I guess that's the price to pay to avoid waiting for the eventual price drop or sale like all their previous releases.


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## ChazC (Oct 6, 2015)

Ryan99 said:


> There was a pre-order offer for Gravity with the first expansion free. Then, for those who missed it, they could get a rebate on that first expansion compared to those who didn't buy Gravity. The way I see it, that's where you got your discount for buying Gravity.



Not entirely accurate. That's the way it was _marketed_, the free pack turned out to be just a 'lite' version of the eventual NF01, even if you got the 'free' pack the final version contained extra sounds. I have no problem with paying more for the extra sounds, but I do have a problem with the way Heavyocity marketed it.

I don't think anyone here has said they were expecting anything for free - all we've said is that we're a little unhappy with the way Heavyocity has approached the so-called 'add-on' packs (which aren't add on's at all) 

Anyway, it is what it is & we'll see what Heavyocity do going forward. It will obviously depend on how well these 'powered by Gravity' VI's do in sales figures I guess, but as has been said already Gravity itself obviously didn't hit its sales target.


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## D.Salzenberg (Oct 7, 2015)

Am I correct that the packs don't have the 'designer' feature? If so, then at least that very cool feature is reserved for the full Gravity.


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## procreative (Oct 7, 2015)

Aren't some of you guys moaning here the same people who stamped on those who did the same over the cross grade price for Albion 1 owners who paid full price back in the day?

Seems at some point we all win and lose with sales and strategy changes.

Unless you are prepared to play the waiting game whenever a new product comes out, you either suck it up or don't buy. I mean I could buy Gravity now and get Vocalise free, but then the next pack might be even better!

I think the wider picture here is whether these products are right for you, as sometimes the walkthroughs don't really show enough patches to be able to see what you really get. I mean even Vocalise, its not really clear if you are getting a few vocal loops merged with ethereal pads or something much cleverer.

I've got Shevannai and other vocal libraries and not sure its not adding much more.


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## Zhao Shen (Oct 7, 2015)

If I buy a $500 toy - let's say LEGOs - I better like it. Else I'd feel cheated and remorseful. However, after I bought that $500 toy, LEGO decided to release another toy with the same theme for $100 - not the same pieces, but just a less fleshed-out set. Do I get mad at LEGO? No. If I am willing to dish out another $100, I do it. If not, I don't. Simple as that. Buying Gravity did not (and i dislike using this word because it usually carries negative connotations) entitle anyone to receive future Gravity-related products. The person made the internal decision of "is the content included in this library worth the money I'm paying?" And once they've decided "yes it is" and pulled the trigger, they can't then say "oh but I deserve more for jumping in early."

Yes, I agree that Heavyocity could have been more transparent on their entire marketing strategy for Gravity. I don't think anyone expected standalone expansions, and Heavyocity deserves the backlash for that. But people getting upset about others being able to buy these standalone expansions is ridiculous! YOU made the decision to buy Gravity and get the included content - if it wasn't worth it, then you would have been upset even without standalone expansions. If it was, then you shouldn't be upset at all.

Sorry, just had to get that out  /end rant


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## tokatila (Oct 7, 2015)

Well it seems, "the problem" stems from the fact that the products are called Gravity Packs. If they had designed new skin with for Vocalise and called it Master Vocal Session etc. everything would be just dandy. Aah, marketing, what a non-scientific-science.


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## D.Salzenberg (Oct 7, 2015)

Yes that's all fair enough. As I have said, I'm very happy with my Gravity purchase and also got the full NF pack free and will probably buy Vocalise also.
As you also point out Heavyocity deserve the backlash for 'standalone expansions' which is actually an impossible description as they are not 'expansions' at all.
Expansion packs are things such as Stylus Expansion Packs which need Stylus to run.
This is a reply to Zhao Shen.


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## Zhao Shen (Oct 7, 2015)

D.Salzenberg said:


> Yes that's all fair enough. As I have said, I'm very happy with my Gravity purchase and also got the full NF pack free and will probably buy Vocalise also.
> As you also point out Heavyocity deserve the backlash for 'standalone expansions' which is actually an impossible description as they are not 'expansions' at all.
> Expansion packs are things such as Stylus Expansion Packs which need Stylus to run.
> This is a reply to Zhao Shen.


Yes, but they are marketed as such. I remember getting the e-mails "Buy Gravity now and get the first expansion free!" and saying to myself, "Cool, I wonder what they add!" In the end the argument isn't about the wording of "Gravity pack" or "expansion" or "standalone." It's about Heavyocity's act of misleading people.


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## D.Salzenberg (Oct 7, 2015)

Zhao Shen said:


> Yes, but they are marketed as such. I remember getting the e-mails "Buy Gravity now and get the first expansion free!" and saying to myself, "Cool, I wonder what they add!" In the end the argument isn't about the wording of "Gravity pack" or "expansion" or "standalone." It's about Heavyocity's act of misleading people.


That's the crux of the issue. They are marketed as Expansion Packs when in truth they are no such thing. I wonder if the new Consumer Rights Act would judge this to be misleading?


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## woodsdenis (Oct 7, 2015)

D.Salzenberg said:


> That's the crux of the issue. They are marketed as Expansion Packs when in truth they are no such thing. I wonder if the new Consumer Rights Act would judge this to be misleading?


They are called Gravity packs not Expansion packs on the website. Cmon this is getting ridiculous, accusing HO of deliberately misleading people WTF. As someone earlier stated if this had been called simply Vocalise with a different skin no one would care, well I don't care what its called, its a 3gb Vocal library with tons of stellar content which happens to use a really cool Kontakt engine.... and its only $79.


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## D.Salzenberg (Oct 7, 2015)

Well yes, as standalone products they are very good value. The implication at the initial launch was that the Packs would be expansion packs. And the initial GP01, now called Natural Forces lite, did actually install within the full Gravity. It does seem like this was the plan and then they changed their mind and chose to go the standalone route.
So part of the attraction of buying Gravity was that you were buying a product that would be updated with expansions, thus adding considerable value to your initial investment.


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## jacobthestupendous (Oct 7, 2015)

I don't know how this works (I'm not a dev), but I get the impression from reading around here that there are special fees to make new libraries that actually show up in Kontakt's Libraries tab. Does anyone here know if them making Natural Forces and Vocalise their own libraries is actually more expensive for HoC than truly just expanding Gravity?


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## catsass (Oct 7, 2015)

I have to say, this wasn't the direction I expected this thread to go in.
Personally, I am enjoying Vocalise and have used it to great effect in a current project.

And, yes...I purchased Gravity upon its release, received the Lite version of Natural Forces with it, and purchased the full Natural Forces Gravity Pack ($39) when it was released. Upon receiving the Heavyocity email announcing the release of Vocalise, I did shoot them a quick email to verify the $79 price tag in case I missed a coupon code that went out.  The cats at Heavyocity have always been _very_ good to me.


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## Brendon Williams (Oct 7, 2015)

catsass said:


> I have to say, this wasn't the direction I expected this thread to go in.



+1 It'd be nice to actually hear more thoughts on the library.


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## AlexandreSafi (Oct 7, 2015)

I just watched a bit of *Daniel James*'s video presentation, such a great & entertaining guy, his immediate enthusiasm when he started playing the library sure wasn't lying! I love the sound & playability of the "performance palettes" as they're called! I could really imagine it having a huge impact on well-crafted melodies!

The problem now is: It's an incredibly "seductive" tool (pun int.), especially for single composers with a romantic nostalgia, the voices are so memorable, hence recognizable that then--how do you avoid not sounding like everybody else who also bought them?!...
-A.-


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## Vovique (Nov 27, 2015)

I just bought this, and can't figure out how to tempo sync phrases in Kontakt. If it can' t be done, what do I do with 200 unsyncable vocal snippets, making Vocalise rather way too limited...


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## JT3_Jon (Feb 22, 2016)

Looking for feedback on this product. I personally do not use phrases in my music, but I do love and often use vocal ambient pads. How much of the product is dedicated to phrases vs sustains vs pads/sound design? Is it worth grabbing if you do not plan on using a single phrase? Are the pads/sound design unique or can they be achieved with omnisphere. I guess what excites me is the possibility of swirling and pulsing vocal ambient pads, but I wonder if its really that unique? Unfortunately from the demos I've watched I'm still undecided as they seem to focus a lot on the phrases and less on the sound design/pad aspect of the instrument.


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## SeattleComposer (Feb 22, 2016)

It is extremely easy to add movement of all sorts with this. Did you watch Daniel James' demo? At the half off price, I wouldn't hesitate.


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## Rob Elliott (Feb 22, 2016)

Half off?


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## jtnyc (Feb 22, 2016)

$49 at NI's site until March 3rd


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## G.R. Baumann (Feb 23, 2016)

Bottom line is as simple as this, you like a product and find the price attached worth the money, or you don't find the price attached worth it. You with me? 

How about a price bitchin forum where anyone can vent his anger on prices too high or feeling ripped by later promotions of the same product he bought for a higher price? Hey, we live ina a predator capitalist world, if you want to seriosuly complain about that, "start a war" against central bankers and their financial fascism dictate.

Good Lord, these are Kontakt libraries for f__ks sake, not groceries to feed your family. Start a revolution once the price for food, water and energy takes 2/3 of your income, but do spend your time more wisely perhaps, you only have that in a limited amount available.

Imagine the last breath you took would have exhaled while bitchin about a Kontakt library price.

He died complaining bitterly about the price of a Gravity pack. RIP Then you reach the doors to heaven, and guess what.... "Oh no, pleeeease, not THAT guy!"


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## G.R. Baumann (Feb 23, 2016)

Vovique said:


> I just bought this, and can't figure out how to tempo sync phrases in Kontakt. If it can' t be done, what do I do with 200 unsyncable vocal snippets, making Vocalise rather way too limited...



Ouch.... I was just about to hit the purchase button, but without that feature, it would be too much of a limitation to me.


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## Vovique (Feb 23, 2016)

G.R. Baumann said:


> Ouch.... I was just about to hit the purchase button, but without that feature, it would be too much of a limitation to me.


I bounce to audio and time stretch(. But seriously, Kontakt's time stretching power could've been to much better use...


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## Rob Elliott (Feb 23, 2016)

Perhaps a 'paid update' feature add (I'd pay to save time).


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## musicman61554 (Feb 23, 2016)

This sale rocks. Purchased it yesterday and WOW truly amazing. Daniels video helped me to decide. Buy it PEEPS!!!!!!!!!!


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## Vovique (Feb 23, 2016)

I put Gravity in my NI shopping cart. But now I'm listening to Natural Forces audio demos and hear similar awesomeness, then I'm remembering some users referring to it as "Gravity Lite". Is it like 1/4 of content for 1/4 price, or the full Gravity's sounds are of a much greater variety?


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## Whatisvalis (Feb 25, 2016)

There's no designer in Natural Forces and the Sting / transition section is pretty limited to what I would imagine is in Gravity. 

This is an expansion so in terms of sample content I'm assuming it's new and does not appear in Gravity.


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## kof gadol (Dec 7, 2017)

G.R. Baumann said:


> Ouch.... I was just about to hit the purchase button, but without that feature, it would be too much of a limitation to me.



Old thread, but still relevant question .... I've been looking at getting the first Vocalise (Vocalise 2 requires a higher version of Kontakt than I want to go just yet), if for no other reason than the phrases -- I love that kind of thing and these seem very well done. 

But I understand that they are not tempo syncable, nor is the tempo at which they were recorded noted in the folder or nki names (they way the musical key is). 

Makes me wonder, how, then, do you use these, without a bunch of messing around (trimming phrases, trial and error), in an existing project? Or even in a new project which you write around a chosen phrase, if you don't know what tempo to set the project to? How would you combine two phrases if they aren't neccessarily in time even with each other?


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