# Best controller for expressive playing



## robcs (Jun 4, 2020)

I'm weighing up some of the new MPE controllers, trying to find something that will breathe some life into samples - sliders and foot pedals just don't do it for me.

Right now, I'm looking at the Expressive Touche SE, the Roli Lightpad, or a TEC breath and bite controller.

Just wondering if anyone here has had a chance to compare any of these against each other? Which did you find feels the most natural to play, and which creates the most natural-sounding expressive playing?

Thanks in advance!


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## zgo (Jun 5, 2020)

I use, sometimes the WAVE ring from Genki Instrument ... I am always impressed and very happy with it.








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## robcs (Jun 6, 2020)

zgo said:


> I use, sometimes the WAVE ring from Genki Instrument ... I am always impressed and very happy with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I’ve just watched their videos. That does look impressive, and as a one-time conductor, it appeals to me the same way the TEC appeals to my brass-playing side. Much more so than either the Touche or the ROLI. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!


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## anjwilson (Jun 6, 2020)

It depends a bit on what instruments you want to play with these controllers. 

For realistic acoustic instruments, I love the TEC breath and bite controller 2. I use it on every choral, woodwind, brass, and string part. 

I'm still looking for reasons to use my roli seaboard block. I've seen plenty of convincing synth performances with the roli gear, but my music doesn't use these kinds of sounds.


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## Polarity (Nov 23, 2020)

zgo said:


> I use, sometimes the WAVE ring from Genki Instrument ... I am always impressed and very happy with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's a bit of time that I'm very interested into getting a MIDI ring, but I'm not sure yet which to buy between the Genky Wave 101 (2 years old now) and the Ehnancia Neova (just started shipping recently).
Why.
First the price: Neova costs more than double of Genky's... but has USB connection.
Second: Genky's has Blutooth LE connection so I should get a new blutooth compatible usb key (not a big problem though)...
but (Third) watching the various demonstration videos it seems to me less "agile" in the performance...
I mean, I watched almost ALL videos of Genky's ring and I only saw a pile of bullshit of sound games for experimental control of dubstep kind of things, that I don't care about at all, and not one decent real keyboard playing with a "normal" synth lead or virtual instrument like a guitar, a violin, a trumpet or another brass instrument, while Neova has plenty of real keyboard performances videos.
So I wonder if it's really able to do a quick bending followed by a vibrato (while maintaining the bending) like you could do with an electric guitar or a synth lead, exactly as I saw in a video of Neova.
So, I guess they couldn't do it?
Please, can you give eleucidations and your experience about that?
Hope I explained well enough my doubt.


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## Oliver (Nov 24, 2020)

i would be interested in that too.
Anybody uses this with orchestra libraries or strings in particular?
Thx


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## zgo (Nov 24, 2020)

hello,
CC# can be assign easily with the Genki Software, Tilt / pan / tap etc ... 
A hand on a keyboard doesn't move a lot, so, you can restrict the mouvement and have a good balance and sensibility.
Works great on Orchestral library when assign to the expression CC and I often use the Vibrato at the same time .
The wave ring got a usb connection too but only for charging, who wants to be plug with a wire ?

I think the demo of the wave doesn't show all the possibilities but for me a 2 years product is a better product, all the problems are well known now , the team follow the customers very carefully and the technical support is very responsive.

Neova seems to be a good product too ! a little to " big " maybe .

They require some training but after few days it is very nice.

It is a real question of price here because they both works very well.

hope this helps


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## Oliver (Nov 24, 2020)

thx for the reply, i am still on the edge of buying this, especially with the BF Sale...


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## Windbag (Nov 24, 2020)

I wouldn't be thrilled about it, but I'd give up my Roli gear before my TEControl. 

I got one of the Roli kits that bundles the light pad and loop buttons along with the 2 octave block...but wound up selling the smaller bits to a friend interested in electronic/DJ stuff. The light block is certainly neat tech, but it suffered 2 fatal flaws for me: 

1. I found the custom setup process to be too troublesome to be worthwhile. I'd wanted to set it up for drawbar control, figuring the lights would be a nice indicator of current drawbar location (particularly if I change presets) in absence of something much more sophisticated like motorized faders or latching controls. Never got that to work. 

2. No tactile location cues. The only way to know what your finger is doing is to look directly at it, which makes it difficult to coordinate with any other control (or key presses)

***in fact for me this is kind of a big deal for any alternate input methods. Generally speaking, the less definite the controller is (where the current position is relative to the limits, and whether I get a non-visual sense of that)....the less interested I am. For this reason, I've avoided any of the air or motion controllers. 

A breath controller, on the other hand, has been indispensible for me since back in the VL synth days. It's such a natural, precise, and quick-moving control - it's easy to learn even for keyboardists like me. I've gone though a number of them (including EWIs) and TEControl really got it right. The bite pressure mechanism is superior, all controls are lag-free, high resolution, and easily customizable for range, curve, channel output, etc. Highly recommend. 


To some extent, what you'll get the most out of will depend on what your after. Some examples: 

Go breath controller if
- any orchestral work whatsoever
- any wind instruments 
- any modeled instruments

Roli if: 
- any of the SWAM strings (perfect fingerboard) 
- lots of synthesizer/sound design type work


I've been eyeing that touché since I got the Roli, wondering if it wouldn't let me accomplish a lot of the same things I'd get from the Roli except with one hand on my 88. I sort of concluded that 2 hands on the Roli (I got 2 of the keyboard blocks for total of 4 octaves) was nicer than limiting my note input to hand while the other was on the Touché....but I might still give one a shot later. 

Oh...and I actually tried the Seaboard 49 alongside the blocks, and found the blocks to have dramatically superior consistency (somewhat disappointingly...I wanted the uninterrupted surface and wider spacing on the Rise) and ultimately returned the Rise.


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## Pier (Nov 24, 2020)

The Erae Touch with MPE is another option.








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## Windbag (Nov 24, 2020)

Pier said:


> The Erae Touch with MPE is another option.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Uh wow...the expanded size is cool but that has to be the most blatant Roli ripoff right down to the software UI and power-on animation. How is that not headed directly for legal trouble?


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## Polarity (Nov 24, 2020)

zgo said:


> hello,
> CC# can be assign easily with the Genki Software, Tilt / pan / tap etc ...
> A hand on a keyboard doesn't move a lot, so, you can restrict the mouvement and have a good balance and sensibility.
> Works great on Orchestral library when assign to the expression CC and I often use the Vibrato at the same time .
> ...



Thankyou for the reply, but no sorry, doesn't help taking away my last doubt about that combination of gestures. Well, don't worry.  

For usb connection of the Neova, of course I meant just for the base/interface connected to the computer... and I already have other controllers connected through usb bus.
Never had instead something connected to my pc through bluetooth bus and working properly 100%.

I wrote to both support contact to ask a few questions:
Genky's replied that once the battery is dead they could replace it for me (it's not replaceable by users), while Enhancia made me understand that once the battery is dead you can throw all in the trash. Not sure if the 10 years lifetime they told me is believable.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 24, 2020)

Interesting video of the Neova - latency seems good (they have developed their own protocol for it)


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## ChrisHarrison (Dec 5, 2020)

The avid artist mix with Cubase controlling cc with motorized faders is a dream. Love it. I also used the breath controller, basic model. TEControl. I use that for winds. I use the mod wheel to control volume CC and the breath controller does modulation. That way I can blow the dynamics and taper the end of phrases.

Artist mix is set up as modulation vibrato and volume. I barely use volume, only to taper off phrases to niete (nothing). Some sounds lowest volume with modulation is still rather audible, so the little volume decrescendo helps. I don’t do this with strings as those samples seem to have very natural releases.

I’m using 100% spitfire orchestra btw.

wouldn’t trade this set up for the world. The automated faders only work with Cubase quick controls. You access them by pressing the EQ button and holding it for 3 seconds. Then boom, you’re in magic land. I have the CC messages in automation lanes. Took a while to set up for the whole orchestra template, but it’s VERY worth it for me. I can go back and conduct parts on playback.
Still trying to find out how to get it to control whole sections at once or multiple instruments at once. Anyone figure this out?


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## purple (Dec 5, 2020)

Anyone ever used an EWI to perform MIDI instruments into a DAW?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 5, 2020)

Recently got a Genki Wave ring. Seems very cool but definitely requires practice. Almost like learning a new instrument.


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## Pottz (Dec 16, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Recently got a Genki Wave ring. Seems very cool but definitely requires practice. Almost like learning a new instrument.


I'm on the verge of getting the Genki ring. So am interested in your progress. How is it going? Are you a keys player? I'm interested in how it performs when work on the hand doing the keys playing (as opposed to the controller hand not being keys bound).


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## pinki (Dec 16, 2020)

I have the original Touche. It is a musical instrument.


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## penfever (Dec 16, 2020)

I have tried a lot of MPE controllers. My thoughts are as follows ...

ROLI SEABOARD: I've gone through two of them. I keep thinking this is a unit I should like more than I actually do. Its best use case, as others have mentioned, is for synth work. It's also the best unit I'm aware of for BIG expressive glissandos -- like an octave or more.

I think my big objection to the Roli, and the reason I will probably sell it again this week, is the keys. I'm a pianist, and for me, the Roli keys are too lumpy for really agile performances. They have a strange kind of gummy resistance which messes with my tempo.

The Roli bundled synths, software, reliability and added functionality are all best-in-class. But its core functionality just ain't where it's at.

LINNSTRUMENT 256: This was my first MPE controller. I still have a soft spot in my heart for it. It's a very likeable thing. I enjoyed looking at it. It made me want to play.

But when I did play, I only rarely got good results. The little squares were very difficult to play accurately in 5D. The many different software modes, although nifty, aren't really the headspace I want to be in when composing. When composing, I want something that just works, and Linnstrument wasn't that. Furthermore, the guitar-style layout was great for some instruments, but not great for others.

Anyway, it's different than anything else on the market. I think it's worth trying if you're into MPE.

HAKEN CONTINUUM: I bought this with great trepidation, and sold it with great reluctance. I got a great deal on an OG full-sized Haken. And let me tell you, it is one of the coolest INSTRUMENTS I have ever owned. That thing is 100 percent an instrument, like a violin or a trumpet. You should expect a similar learning curve. But it is such a delight to play, and the sounds that came out of that thing were so original and awesome.

It was not a very good controller for anything other than itself, however. My model only had MIDI I/O, which was not super reliable (admittedly I was piping all that information through a 1990s MOTU A/V). I often had trouble getting the software to recognize the controller. The Haken doesn't quantize pitch unless you tell it to, and if you do tell it to, it doesn't sweep pitch smoothly. So you better be a pretty precise player on that big crazy pad. Plus, it was honkin big and heavy.

Anyway, I loved it. If I had a bigger studio, I would have kept it.

EXPRESSIVE E OSMOSE: Just gave up on this one (pre-order, over eight months late at this point). I was really stoked, but COVID appears to have decimated the supply chain.

KEITH MCMILLEN KBOARD PRO 4: This has been the surprise winner of my MPE controllers. I bought it because I got a good deal. I did not expect to like it, even though I really liked the little bitty QuNexus (which, by the way, if you want a super low budget MPE AND Eurorack controller ... that should be high on your list, that thing is awesome). 

Well, I was wrong. The K-Board isn't very good at the most iconically MPE thing to do -- namely, multiple pitch bends in opposite directions at the same time with expressive pressure. All the other controllers I named are superior for that function. Why? Because they don't have gaps between their keys and they don't quantize pitch by default.

But the thing is, most of the time with MPE, I don't actually want to DO that iconic MPE thing. I actually want to control dynamics and tone while playing a traditional melody or harmony sequence. And for THAT, the K-Board is better than anything else on the market. Why? Because it is very, very similar, in look and feel, to a synth keybed. You can play it just like a synth keybed, except that the keys don't depress when you play them, which means that if you have a light touch, you can play it REALLY REALLY FAST, and be super accurate, and still get far better dynamic control than on a traditional synth keybed, and not get as physically tired if, like me, your fingers are burnt out from typing on a computer all day.

This means that I actually often prefer the K-Board even for non-MPE instruments, especially strings and drums. It is a really, really good controller for normal strings, actually, if you set the pressure control to either vibrato or volume, depending on your play-style. 

Also, it's very stable software-wise, reasonably light, small for its key-count, fairly priced, and gloriously free of buttons and other useless features I don't want. It's not quite as minimal as the Haken, but it's close.

TECONTROL MIDI BREATH CONTROLLER: This thing is so damn good. It's fairly simple to install, intuitive to use, and it just sounds baller. Tecontrol/Sample Modeling brass is heaven, pure heaven, and it's really good with SWAM as well. It's not even that expensive. I do look like a dork when I play it, and I wish it was wireless. But basically, it's awesome.

TOUCHE: I didn't click with it. Maybe because I play a lot of two-handed lines?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 16, 2020)

Pottz said:


> I'm on the verge of getting the Genki ring. So am interested in your progress. How is it going? Are you a keys player? I'm interested in how it performs when work on the hand doing the keys playing (as opposed to the controller hand not being keys bound).



I have regretfully not been able to dive into it a ton more due to other time constraints, but so far, it is pretty interesting. I play most lines with my right hand so my left hand is free for expression faders. So I don't wear the ring on my playing hand. I am a pianist but I don't use the ring for piano (and for other instruments, I don't use ensemble patches so not sure why I would need both hands on the keyboard).

The question for me though is how much _more_ expressive is it than just standard faders and does it really add to the music or make it much faster to program? Jury is still out on that one.


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## Fox (Dec 17, 2020)

Bought a Genki Wave ring and have been experimenting with it today (and a little bit yesterday). So far I'm very impressed with how easy it is to use. There is a learning curve with how to do the movements, but it seems capable of very simple settings, which are good for learning one's own workflow and preferences (to be "complexities" later as needed).


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## curry36 (Feb 12, 2021)

@ALittleNightMusic Any new thoughts on this? I am thinking of buying this controller - what the guy demonstrated on the demo video looked awesome, but I'm a bit careful as the video is uploaded on the companies account. Saying that because I own a Seaboard and playing it like Marco Parisi on all the official ROLI videos is just impossible without real practicing over a long period of time. But if this controller can be integrated quickly into the workflow, that would be great! Also, have you gotten rid of working with faders or how did your workflow end up?



And also, if your problem was communicating small and precise dynamic details with two fingers and faders, would you think that this ring could be the best alternative? I am also thinking of an expression pedal and the TEC breath controller, but I can't imagine them to be much more precise than the fader solution. This is where I possibly see the ring ahead of the others (of course expression pedal and breath controller allow for performing ensemble patches, but that's a different story).


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## ALittleNightMusic (Feb 12, 2021)

curry36 said:


> @ALittleNightMusic Any new thoughts on this? I am thinking of buying this controller - what the guy demonstrated on the demo video looked awesome, but I'm a bit careful as the video is uploaded on the companies account. Saying that because I own a Seaboard and playing it like Marco Parisi on all the official ROLI videos is just impossible without real practicing over a long period of time. But if this controller can be integrated quickly into the workflow, that would be great! Also, have you gotten rid of working with faders or how did your workflow end up?
> 
> 
> 
> And also, if your problem was communicating small and precise dynamic details with two fingers and faders, would you think that this ring could be the best alternative? I am also thinking of an expression pedal and the TEC breath controller, but I can't imagine them to be much more precise than the fader solution. This is where I possibly see the ring ahead of the others (of course expression pedal and breath controller allow for performing ensemble patches, but that's a different story).



Honestly, the video is fairly accurate on what this can do. I have no issues with the actual hardware or functionality. Having said that, I haven't practiced enough to say it is fully integrated into my workflow yet. I also don't know if you would use this for precise movements over a fader, but you could by expanding the range of motion - though your arm may tire from that. All in all, I'm very glad I have the ring - just need to use it more.


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## curry36 (Feb 17, 2021)

That sounds great so far! 
How flexible is the software? I could imagine using this for both, precise and general movement, so it would be nice to have an easy and quick way to change the motion range. And could you imagine using both hands (with two rings) for CC1 and CC11?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Feb 17, 2021)

curry36 said:


> That sounds great so far!
> How flexible is the software? I could imagine using this for both, precise and general movement, so it would be nice to have an easy and quick way to change the motion range. And could you imagine using both hands (with two rings) for CC1 and CC11?


Software is quite good. You can pair two rings though you can also put both CCs on one ring just on different axis / motions.


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## ltmusic (Feb 17, 2021)

Any opinion on Leap motion control ? is it similar to Genki ring ?


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## Pier (Feb 17, 2021)

ltmusic said:


> Any opinion on Leap motion control ? is it similar to Genki ring ?


Huh. I just remembered I have a Leap Motion device somewhere from a couple of years ago when I worked on interactive stuff for museum. Will give it a try and report back!


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## robgb (Feb 17, 2021)

robcs said:


> I'm weighing up some of the new MPE controllers, trying to find something that will breathe some life into samples - sliders and foot pedals just don't do it for me.
> 
> Right now, I'm looking at the Expressive Touche SE, the Roli Lightpad, or a TEC breath and bite controller.
> 
> ...


I can't personally recommend it because I haven't used it, but the Leap controller looks pretty amazing.


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## curry36 (Feb 17, 2021)

robgb said:


> I can't personally recommend it because I haven't used it, but the Leap controller looks pretty amazing.



Holi macaroni


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## gzapper (Feb 17, 2021)

ltmusic said:


> Any opinion on Leap motion control ? is it similar to Genki ring ?


I've got one, its fun but its not accurate enough to use and takes too much setup time. I've used high end motion capture systems that are better or even Kinnect controllers that are more satisfying. In theory its great, in practice the tracking is slow and not accurate enough.

I'm a guitar player and have tried so many controllers, from a roland g300 guitar synth to cheap game/guitar controllers to the Artiphone instrument one and lately a Godin with a Fishman triple play. Oh, and I've been beta testing a microtonal keyboard called the Lumitone.

The Artiphone was fun, but the outside 'strings' didn't track well and its not trustworthy enough with its tracking to use as a performance. Thinking I'll do some more work with it now that Ableton is MPE, same with the Fishman guitar, both of which sucked using DP. MPE sythns will make it more enjoyable but it'll still not be as accurate or noise free as even my bad piano playing. 

The problem with all of them is finding something that you can play accurately, tracks well and doesn't just create more work cleaning up midi control noise afterwards.


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## ltmusic (Feb 17, 2021)

gzapper said:


> I've got one, its fun but its not accurate enough to use and takes too much setup time. I've used high end motion capture systems that are better or even Kinnect controllers that are more satisfying. In theory its great, in practice the tracking is slow and not accurate enough.
> 
> I'm a guitar player and have tried so many controllers, from a roland g300 guitar synth to cheap game/guitar controllers to the Artiphone instrument one and lately a Godin with a Fishman triple play. Oh, and I've been beta testing a microtonal keyboard called the Lumitone.
> 
> ...





gzapper said:


> I've got one, its fun but its not accurate enough to use and takes too much setup time. I've used high end motion capture systems that are better or even Kinnect controllers that are more satisfying. In theory its great, in practice the tracking is slow and not accurate enough.
> 
> I'm a guitar player and have tried so many controllers, from a roland g300 guitar synth to cheap game/guitar controllers to the Artiphone instrument one and lately a Godin with a Fishman triple play. Oh, and I've been beta testing a microtonal keyboard called the Lumitone.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 18, 2021)

Pier said:


> Huh. I just remembered I have a Leap Motion device somewhere from a couple of years ago when I worked on interactive stuff for museum. Will give it a try and report back!


Interesting.

That thing looked really cool... and then my bullshit detector went off at a demo video in which the head of the company sneered at regular QWERTY keyboards, saying they were out of date or something.

He'd be surprised to know that I can literally type "techbro douchebag" faster than he can say that in the video.

By the way, I made the mistake of going to the G(^|ki ring controller site to check it out yesterday. Today ads for it are stalking me. But the product is interesting.

I'm not sure what advantages it has over many other controllers, such as the ribbons built into my Kurzweil K2500X, but it does look like a nice controller. Reminds me of the Ondes Martenot.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 18, 2021)

Ondes Martenot.

See the ring?


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## gzapper (Feb 18, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Ondes Martenot.
> 
> See the ring?


The ring was to ground the ribbon controller, wasn't it?
They also needed some kind of powder to make them work, I seem to recall.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 19, 2021)

gzapper said:


> The ring was to ground the ribbon controller, wasn't it?
> They also needed some kind of powder to make them work, I seem to recall.



Dunno, but I went to an LA Phil concert where they played a Messiaen piece that used it. It was really great.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 19, 2021)

Wikipedia:

"The ondes Martenot can be played with a metal ring worn on the right index finger. Sliding the ring along a wire produces "theremin-like" tones, generated by oscillations in vacuum tubes,[2] or transistors in the seventh model."

There was also a model that did vibrato when you wiggled the keys side to side.


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## HeliaVox (Feb 19, 2021)

I wish I could afford the new Ondes that are being made. I love that instrument so much.


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## David Cuny (Feb 19, 2021)

Re-reading this reminds me I need to get a TEC controller.

Even _zombie _threads on VI-Control somehow convince me to spend money.


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## sctaylorcan (Mar 4, 2021)

gzapper said:


> I've got one, its fun but its not accurate enough to use and takes too much setup time. I've used high end motion capture systems that are better or even Kinnect controllers that are more satisfying. In theory its great, in practice the tracking is slow and not accurate enough.
> 
> I'm a guitar player and have tried so many controllers, from a roland g300 guitar synth to cheap game/guitar controllers to the Artiphone instrument one and lately a Godin with a Fishman triple play. Oh, and I've been beta testing a microtonal keyboard called the Lumitone.
> 
> ...


Hi Gzapper  I've been sharing info about a free app I made for leapmotion that takes a simpler (but still really flexible) approach to setup and control. If you're on Windows and still have your Leap Motion, I thought you might like it! It uses the version 4 Leap drivers and honestly there's no perceptible tracking lag with these drivers (on my modest i7 system at least). www.midipaw.com in case you're curious to try.

Cheers!
- Steve


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## gzapper (Mar 4, 2021)

sctaylorcan said:


> Hi Gzapper  I've been sharing info about a free app I made for leapmotion that takes a simpler (but still really flexible) approach to setup and control. If you're on Windows and still have your Leap Motion, I thought you might like it! It uses the version 4 Leap drivers and honestly there's no perceptible tracking lag with these drivers (on my modest i7 system at least). www.midipaw.com in case you're curious to try.
> 
> Cheers!
> - Steve


Thanks, Steve, that's very kind of you but my pc only does VE pro right now.
The demo looks great, almost enough for me to see if there is a way to run it into VE pro and into my mac from there. Hmmm, there goes another few nights.......


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## Pier (Mar 4, 2021)

Hey @sctaylorcan I just tried MidiPaw and it's awesome!

Two suggestions.

It would be great to have full pitch bend in a single rule instead of having up or down (if that's possible).

The other one is being able to invert the value. Some people might find it more natural that backwards/left is positive. Also, not everyone will have the LeapMotion device with the same orientation.

Other than those it's working great. I can't notice any delay.

Good job!


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## sctaylorcan (Mar 4, 2021)

Pier said:


> Hey @sctaylorcan I just tried MidiPaw and it's awesome!
> 
> Two suggestions.
> 
> ...


Woot! Thanks!

There is actually a reverse function if you drop down the rule's detailed settings - it's just under the "motion range" configuration on the "Response" page. Is that the thing you were thinking of?

Re pitch bend -- yes, it's very tough to find a really great way to catch it in one rule becuase I wanted people to be able to configure a dead zone in the middle of whatever size they wanted, and hoped to do it without a separate "pitch bend dead zone" setting... and it gets confusing with the response curves too, so I broke it in halves - one rule for up, one rule for down  I'm still trying to think up a more slick way though!

Thanks for giving it a try and for the suggestions -- much appreciated!
- Steve


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## sctaylorcan (Mar 4, 2021)

gzapper said:


> Thanks, Steve, that's very kind of you but my pc only does VE pro right now.
> The demo looks great, almost enough for me to see if there is a way to run it into VE pro and into my mac from there. Hmmm, there goes another few nights.......


Ooop, sorry about your nights  One person did get it working on Mac under Parallels, though he said Parallels consumed a fair bit of resource, so he moved it to a "spare" PC and used rtpMIDI from there to feed his Mac. Creative!


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## Pier (Mar 4, 2021)

sctaylorcan said:


> There is actually a reverse function if you drop down the rule's detailed settings - it's just under the "motion range" configuration on the "Response" page. Is that the thing you were thinking of?


Oh wow I completely missed that hidden panel!

You need to make the button to open it a bit more obvious 

Thanks!


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 4, 2021)

Id really love to see a comeback of those Brain Controllers.
How awesome would it be to think about creating a crescendo just
by thinking about it in real time, or imagining a picture of a rising sun.
Even an AR Fader, controlled by gestures with wonky looking glasses
would be an innovation.


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## dfhagai (Mar 5, 2021)

Another vote for Leap Motion!


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## gzapper (Mar 5, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Id really love to see a comeback of those Brain Controllers.
> How awesome would it be to think about creating a crescendo just
> by thinking about it in real time, or imagining a picture of a rising sun.
> Even an AR Fader, controlled by gestures with wonky looking glasses
> would be an innovation.


I did a two year residency at a place with medical grade EEG gear. We spent some time hooking them up to control sound in Ableton using OSC but the signal is super noisy and weird. All the 'brain waves' are essentially subsonic, they filter out everything about about 20hz, and its really pretty unrelated to what you're thinking about. But maybe near infrared......


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 5, 2021)

gzapper said:


> I did a two year residency at a place with medical grade EEG gear. We spent some time hooking them up to control sound in Ableton using OSC but the signal is super noisy and weird. All the 'brain waves' are essentially subsonic, they filter out everything about about 20hz, and its really pretty unrelated to what you're thinking about. But maybe near infrared......


Nice. Maybe only Penfield can. I mean their damn mood organ got released not so long ago.


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## Fox (Mar 30, 2021)

Genki has just released the "Wave for Work," which means you can get a Genki Wave for $100, though I'm not sure this will work with the regular "Softwave" software (for music applications). 

Here's the link I was emailed: https://genkiinstruments.com/pages/...rbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJmb3h2ZXJub25AZ21haWwuY29tIn0=


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## Ukena (May 22, 2021)

I have been very disappointed that the Leap Motion is no longer supported on Mac – I found the Geco software worked very well, and was a lot of fun to experiment with. When I was finally ready to start using it seriously, the Leap software no longer worked with my updated computer. So I've bought the ring, and hope that it will work as advertised. Thanks to all here for the discussion!


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## Thundercat (Nov 18, 2021)

Ukena said:


> I have been very disappointed that the Leap Motion is no longer supported on Mac – I found the Geco software worked very well, and was a lot of fun to experiment with. When I was finally ready to start using it seriously, the Leap software no longer worked with my updated computer. So I've bought the ring, and hope that it will work as advertised. Thanks to all here for the discussion!


there's a member here who made software for it, called midipaw.


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## sctaylorcan (Nov 18, 2021)

Thundercat said:


> there's a member here who made software for it, called midipaw.


With the small clarification that MidiPaw only supports Windows - I believe the other poster was Mac


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## Tralen (Nov 18, 2021)

I was looking if someone made an actual theremin into a MIDI controller and found this. Anyone ever tried it?


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## Thundercat (Nov 18, 2021)

sctaylorcan said:


> With the small clarification that MidiPaw only supports Windows - I believe the other poster was Mac


Any plans to make a Mac version?


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## sctaylorcan (Nov 18, 2021)

Thundercat said:


> Any plans to make a Mac version?


Ah, sorry, not at the moment -- I have neither the Apple equipment nor the Mac development know-how! If Leap brings their drivers up to par on the Mac side, though, and some friendly and skilled Mac developer wanted to help make a version, I'd certainly be open to collaboration. It's all free/donation-ware anyway, so nothing to lose


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## Thundercat (Nov 18, 2021)

sctaylorcan said:


> Ah, sorry, not at the moment -- I have neither the Apple equipment nor the Mac development know-how! If Leap brings their drivers up to par on the Mac side, though, and some friendly and skilled Mac developer wanted to help make a version, I'd certainly be open to collaboration. It's all free/donation-ware anyway, so nothing to lose


Cool. Thanks for your amazing contribution with MidiPaw.


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## muziksculp (May 22, 2022)

Hi @sctaylorcan ,

For some odd reason my LeapMotion controller is only working when I connect it to my PC's USB port (on the front panel), it used to work with a USB connector on my Monitor, I tried plugging it in a USB Hub, but that doesn't work either. When I have it connected directly to one of PC's USB ports it detects my hand gestures, and the MidiPaw application shows me that it is sending the midi data based on my gestures via the horizontal activity meter on the right side of the MidiPaw GUI. 

Do you have any idea why the USB hub won't work with LeapMotion , although it did work a few weeks ago ? 

A bit puzzled by this USB issue. Any help/feedback would be appreciated. I'm on Windows 10. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## sctaylorcan (May 25, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Do you have any idea why the USB hub won't work with LeapMotion , although it did work a few weeks ago ?
> 
> A bit puzzled by this USB issue. Any help/feedback would be appreciated. I'm on Windows 10.


Ooooh, sorry, I don't have any ideas. My Leap has worked in any port I've popped it in. MidiPaw just relies on the Leap drivers to see the Leap and report motion, so I think best path would be an inquiry to the folks at [email protected] - who I've found quite helpful before!

Cheers!


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## muziksculp (May 25, 2022)

sctaylorcan said:


> Ooooh, sorry, I don't have any ideas. My Leap has worked in any port I've popped it in. MidiPaw just relies on the Leap drivers to see the Leap and report motion, so I think best path would be an inquiry to the folks at [email protected] - who I've found quite helpful before!
> 
> Cheers!


Thanks. 

I will e-mail their support. Thanks for the feedback.


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## lucky909091 (May 25, 2022)

I love the Monogram MIDi Controller. 








Modular Productivity Tool for Creative Pros


Creative Console is the only controller powerful and versatile enough to increase productivity and creativity for photographers, artists, editors, music producers, and any digital creatives.




monogramcc.com





You can make a personal choice about the controllers you would need. 
I assembled my personal controllers for my needs with my Cubase setup.


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## muziksculp (May 26, 2022)

Hi @sctaylorcan ,

I connected the LeapMotion to a new 7 port Powered USB3 Hub made by Anker (see pic below), and it is working fine now. I think it wasn't getting enough power when using some of the other USB ports of my other peripherals, i.e. Monitor, Keyboard. 

I also got a reply from Ultraleap Tech. Support, they did mention the possibility of the LeapMotion not getting enough voltage via the USB ports I was using. 

I'm glad I have this sorted out now. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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