# Time to jump on the Melda express?



## applegrovebard (Jan 14, 2022)

MSoundfactory now 60% off at Plugin Boutique- probably as low as it will go? Are MSoundfactory owners learning to love this monster?


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 14, 2022)

applegrovebard said:


> MSoundfactory now 60% off at Plugin Boutique- probably as low as it will go? Are MSoundfactory owners learning to love this monster?


Yes! I bought at a paltry 50% off very recently. I haven't worked with it much yet, but I find it quite easy and intuitive to do simple things. That is, simple things involving lots of oscillator types and effects. I've mostly been working with samples and effects, and it is very easy to use.

The downside is maybe more clicking and pop-up windows than you might want. But, whilst I don't like that in and of itself, it does make for some simple and direct input pages for specific operations.

It sounds very good, too, which is something I find I can rely on Melda for.

There are a lot of very powerful, or just very nice, synths out there. This is probably one of the top three combining multi-sampling and synthesis. Plus, there is the promise of continuing updates. So, it has granular effects right now, but it should be getting a granular oscillator in time. It's nice to know - in as much as one can - that it is active development.


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## tomosane (Jan 14, 2022)

I don't have any of his instruments, but the effect plugins I have are VERY good, evidently a talented and very well-organized programmer.

I'm personally eyeing MDrummer, would love to hear first-hand experiences of that one


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 14, 2022)

tomosane said:


> I don't have any of his instruments, but the effect plugins I have are VERY good, evidently a talented and very well-organized programmer.
> 
> I'm personally eyeing MDrummer, would love to hear first-hand experiences of that one


It's included in MSoundFactory but I'm afraid I haven't explored it. I guess I really should!


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## tomosane (Jan 14, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> It's included in MSoundFactory but I'm afraid I haven't explored it. I guess I really should!


Is it really? I wasn't aware of this, and I've found a fairly recent thread that at least on its face seems to imply that the entirety of MDrummer isn't included in MSF(?)









KVR Forum: MSoundFactory : How do I load presets of MDrummer FREE packs ? - MeldaProduction Forum


KVR Audio Forum - MSoundFactory : How do I load presets of MDrummer FREE packs ? - MeldaProduction Forum




www.kvraudio.com


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 14, 2022)

tomosane said:


> Is it really? I wasn't aware of this, and I've found a fairly recent thread that at least on its face seems to imply that the entirety of MDrummer isn't included in MSF(?)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not in MSoundFactoryPlayer, but it is in MSoundFactory. It has to be used inside that instrument and can't be accessed separately.

Actually, I believe there is a pledge that all new instruments will be part of MSoundFactory at no extra cost.


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## applegrovebard (Jan 15, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Yes! I bought at a paltry 50% off very recently. I haven't worked with it much yet, but I find it quite easy and intuitive to do simple things. That is, simple things involving lots of oscillator types and effects. I've mostly been working with samples and effects, and it is very easy to use.
> 
> The downside is maybe more clicking and pop-up windows than you might want. But, whilst I don't like that in and of itself, it does make for some simple and direct input pages for specific operations.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your summary. I tried the MSoundfactory demo a year or so ago and was aware (perhaps more than any other synth I had toyed with) that I was only scratching the surface. But it did have an impressive detailed full-bodied sound. Having all the Melda fx included puts it way beyond most other synths in that regard. It does seem to be one of the current super- or master-synths and maybe only Pigments (as a synth that does several forms of synthesis) is cheaper. It seems to have some physical modelling capability (as Chandler's YT videos demonstrate) which is a capability I'd like to see true supersynths go further with.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 15, 2022)

applegrovebard said:


> Thanks for your summary. I tried the MSoundfactory demo a year or so ago and was aware (perhaps more than any other synth I had toyed with) that I was only scratching the surface. But it did have an impressive detailed full-bodied sound. Having all the Melda fx included puts it way beyond most other synths in that regard. It does seem to be one of the current super- or master-synths and maybe only Pigments (as a synth that does several forms of synthesis) is cheaper. It seems to have some physical modelling capability (as Chandler's YT videos demonstrate) which is a capability I'd like to see true supersynths go further with.


Yes, the physical modelling is something I want to experiment with. I'm mainly into sample manipulation, so the amazing effects rack is hugely useful. However, since it can be hard to get samples without rights limitations (for sharing patches) I'd really like to learn to do some physical modelling to replace some samples.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 15, 2022)

MSoundFactory is an extremely versatile synth that has a steep learning curve in terms of getting to grips with the MANY UI options. Using the many many synthesis options though is a privilige and I like the workflow better than let’s say Falcon’s. And then there’s the excellent effects in there which in terms of sheer completeness and tweakability are unparalleled really. One could even use MSF inside MSF. It truly should be called MSoundInception. And it sounds gorgeous.

MDrummer is the most comprehensive drum package I am aware of (note: I do not have any experience with other contenders suchs as SD3 and Addictive Drums, with the exception of MODO Drum). If you want to really dive deep and program entire songs, breaks, middle eights, accents etc., and get to the most nitty gritty details: MDrummer has you covered. And yes, you can use all the MDrummer samples (60+ Gb) for free (in MSF), but I have to admit I have never seen (nor looked for) the option to actually have access to the MDrummer interface from within MSF? Of course one can use all the drum samples in MSF, but is the actual UI available inside the synth?! Really?

Meldaproduction have a really high standard when it comes to things like oversampling, anti-aliasing and sound quality in general. In fact once I started to dig in, I did not wait long to acquire MCompleteBundle (of course on a 60% off sale they did last year). Other highlights in the catalogue include MTurboReverb, MMorph and just for fun: MSuperLooper. I cannot recommend their stuff highly enough and for those unfamiliar with the developer, definitely get the free bundle that includes MCharmVerb, MConvolutionEZ and a bunch of very handy tools.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 15, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> MSoundFactory is an extremely versatile synth that has a steep learning curve in terms of getting to grips with the MANY UI options. Using the many many synthesis options though is a privilige and I like the workflow better than let’s say Falcon’s. And then there’s the excellent effects in there which in terms of sheer completeness and tweakability are unparalleled really. One could even use MSF inside MSF. It truly should be called MSoundInception. And it sounds gorgeous.
> 
> MDrummer is the most comprehensive drum package I am aware of (note: I do not have any experience with other contenders suchs as SD3 and Addictive Drums, with the exception of MODO Drum). If you want to really dive deep and program entire songs, breaks, middle eights, accents etc., and get to the most nitty gritty details: MDrummer has you covered. And yes, you can use all the MDrummer samples (60+ Gb) for free (in MSF), but I have to admit I have never seen (nor looked for) the option to actually have access to the MDrummer interface from within MSF? Of course one can use all the drum samples in MSF, but is the actual UI available inside the synth?! Really?
> 
> Meldaproduction have a really high standard when it comes to things like oversampling, anti-aliasing and sound quality in general. In fact once I started to dig in, I did not wait long to acquire MCompleteBundle (of course on a 60% off sale they did last year). Other highlights in the catalogue include MTurboReverb, MMorph and just for fun: MSuperLooper. I cannot recommend their stuff highly enough and for those unfamiliar with the developer, definitely get the free bundle that includes MCharmVerb, MConvolutionEZ and a bunch of very handy tools.


Perhaps I have misinterpreted when I've read that MDrummer is included in MSoundFactory. It might have been shorthand for the samples, but I don't think so. I'll have to take a look.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 15, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Perhaps I have misinterpreted when I've read that MDrummer is included in MSoundFactory. It might have been shorthand for the samples, but I don't think so. I'll have to take a look.


I am trying to parse this haha… maybe @Chandler can help us out…


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 15, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I am trying to parse this haha… maybe @Chandler can help us out…


My reading:
MSoundFactoryPlayer has the programming of MDrummer but no user access. So instruments with UIs could provide that access. There aren't any that do so yet, except MDrummer itself.

MSoundFactory contains the MDrummer programming and grants user access to it. How, where, etc. is not specified.

Basically, if you are making an MSoundFactory instrument, the Player is not enough. And you could make an instrument incorporating MDrummer functions from within MSoundFactory. 

But how?!

If you haven't found it, I doubt I'll be able to!


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## doctoremmet (Jan 15, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> If you haven't found it, I doubt I'll be able to!


I have never even looked for MDrummer in my MSF. I will now, but won’t hit the studio today.


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## applegrovebard (Jan 15, 2022)

Doctoremmet wrote 'One could even use MSF inside MSF. It truly should be called MSoundInception.'

I'm just looking into Plugin Unify which is a vst working inside a host but is also a vst host itself- and can also host itself... Music software is sure getting meta these days.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 15, 2022)

applegrovebard said:


> Doctoremmet wrote 'One could even use MSF inside MSF. It truly should be called MSoundInception.'
> 
> I'm just looking into Plugin Unify which is a vst working inside a host but is also a vst host itself- and can also host itself... Music software is sure getting meta these days.


Unify is THIS close of becoming selfaware and merging itself with Skynet. Kidding aside, Unify is an awesome tool. @Simeon and @Reid Rosefelt are planning some kind of “ask us anything” tutorial video so that will be interesting. I think I currently use 1% of Unify and you don’t want to irritate an AI seconds before it turns against mankind, so I better step up my game.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 15, 2022)

The Borg 'You will be assimilated. '

Unify 'You will be Unified.'

Hands together, head bowed, surrender.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 15, 2022)

I was almost tempted to rehash my stale Holken Borg jokes.


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## grabauf (Jan 15, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> The Borg 'You will be assimilated. '
> 
> Unify 'You will be Unified.'
> 
> Hands together, head bowed, surrender.


I wonder what happens if you host a Borg hive in Unify...Self assimilation?


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## doctoremmet (Jan 15, 2022)

Inception 2: The Day The Borg Inadvertently Selfassimilated Their Hive Into Oblivion is all about this very scenario.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 17, 2022)




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## Bee_Abney (Jan 17, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


>



That should be good.
It takes a lot of work to get the most out of Melda plugins. Not because they are hard to use: basic use is very easy. But because they are capable of so much.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 17, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> That should be good.
> It takes a lot of work to get the most out of Melda plugins. Not because they are hard to use: basic use is very easy. But because they are capable of so much.


Yes, although I’d rather say “it CAN take a lot of work” (a lot of deep editing power) but “the presets CAN also do a lot of heavy lifting if one’s in a hurry” (great out of the box sound).


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## sostenuto (Jan 17, 2022)

patiently waiting for APD -75% deal on MEverything ......... ( jus kidding )
Now, mind-boggled with MSF /MDrummer discussion. Was leaning heavily to MDrummer, but MSF would be strong option with MD inclusion. Guess 'NOT' 😖


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## b_elliott (Jan 17, 2022)

tomosane said:


> I don't have any of his instruments, but the effect plugins I have are VERY good, evidently a talented and very well-organized programmer.
> 
> I'm personally eyeing MDrummer, would love to hear first-hand experiences of that one


I found MDummer inside Msoundfactory as follows:
1. Open MSF empty preset.
2. Click Edit tab.
3. Right click in Generator (opens selection of plugins)
4. Select MDrummer listed under Generators listing.

Tip: vi Member Chandler is the MSF guru with tons of online tutorials to learn this synth. I have a long list of other vsts to learn first, but, got at least that far when I first downloaded MSF and the free mDrum pack. Steps 1-4 will get you started.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 17, 2022)

b_elliott said:


> I found MDummer inside Msoundfactory as follows:
> 1. Open MSF empty preset.
> 2. Click Edit tab.
> 3. Right click in Generator (opens selection of plugins)
> ...



MDrummer isn't in my list of generators. There is the following drum-related options:
Drum Multisampler
Drum Scratcher
Drum SubSampleSynth
Drum Synthesizer4NN

I don't know if these amount to MDrummer.


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## b_elliott (Jan 17, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> MDrummer isn't in my list of generators. There is the following drum-related options:
> Drum Multisampler
> Drum Scratcher
> Drum SubSampleSynth
> ...


TBH on initial purchase + download, I only took it this far so can't tell you whether I have pieces of Mdrummer or only some drum sampler offshoot inside MSF (I assumed it to be MDrummer). Someone more MSF savvy could clarify. 

Maybe @José Herring who has more familiarity with the MSF product can clarify whether the drum engines you list are same as MDrummer.


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## José Herring (Jan 17, 2022)

@doctoremmet probably is more of the zen master on this one. I haven't read all the post yet but he probably answered.

MDrummer isn't part of MSoundFactory but the library is. I know it's confusing. It confused me too. You can download the MDrummer libraries for free then use them in MSoundFactory via various sample modules.

As for the OP, MSoundfactory is a beast. It is hands down the best sounding synth engine on the market. I put it up against all the heavy hitters to do a comparison test of the "core" sound as HZ mentioned an it won by a margin. It is upfront, it is lively with lots of depth and not plasticy sounding it is even better then MPowersynth which was weak by comparison.

That comes with a price tag of, it is hard to learn, not very fun to program unless you love that kind of stuff.

That being said it can be learned and comes with a lot of instruments that you can use. But....those instruments aren't nearly as great as Reaktor's instruments, ect... So I program it myself a lot. Having used MPowersynth for years made it a little easier for me to learn. Knowing something about modular synths is almost a must.

I personally really like it. And, might even consider it a desert island synth just based on sheer versatility and ability to do anything. But, I have to admit it isn't for the faint of heart programming wise.

But like Zebra the core sound is so strong that it gets better sounding the more you throw at it rather than hitting a limit like so many soft synths tend to do.

Phase Plant is probably just as powerful, easier to learn but doesn't have all that MSoundfactory has.

On a separate note Melda in general is very GUI challenged. There's been some attempt to add a better face to Melda plugins but it ain't doing it any favors. I have a feeling that they sacrifice pretty for sound quality and CPU efficiency.


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## b_elliott (Jan 17, 2022)

José Herring said:


> @doctoremmet probably is more of the zen master on this one. I haven't read all the post yet but he probably answered.
> 
> MDrummer isn't part of MSoundFactory but the library is....


This clarifies it succinctly José. Thank you! 

FWIW, I started this past BF with an MSF purchase, dowloaded its main libraries including two freebies (Monastery Grand and the smaller MDrummer Essential libraries). Then the IK Group Buy hit and 48 additional instruments/processors later, MSF got buried. 

Despite the gui challenges and general lack of familiarity, I fired up MSF last night and for ease of use I found I was able to get it to quickly give me the sounds + fx I had asked about on another thread (ie How to create the choppy-glitchy fx) with no programming; so, just like that, I am off and running with MSF and Pendulate for a bass heavy song I now have in mind. 

MSF is much like my DAW, I know enough to get my music out; however, it's in learning the newer/different features as I go along creating my music that more riches are exposed from my DAW/MSF/any-of-my-recent-purchases.

Threads like this are what I enjoy most about the vi gang: stuff gets brought up which fits perfectly with my evolving music world. Love it!

Cheers from the -20C wind-chill, snow-bound hinterland, Bill


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## Nico5 (Jan 18, 2022)

For aspiring soft synth or sample library developers, the full MSoundFactory is an intriguing platform even for full commercial development, since one can distribute products for the free player without paying additional fees. It even includes a license generation platform.


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## h.s.j.e (Jan 19, 2022)

Wait. Now I’m confused. I’m pretty sure you *can* have all of MDrummer, UI included.

If you click open a square in the grid in Edit>FX, it should be an option under—I’m on my phone and can’t completely remember, but I think it’s “Generators” or something synonymish. Should be the whole deal.

The caveat here is that I don’t have MDrummer separately, so I don’t know for sure that it’s the full thing, but what I get in the FX tab looks like the pictures of MDrummer on the Melda website.


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## José Herring (Jan 19, 2022)

h.s.j.e said:


> Wait. Now I’m confused. I’m pretty sure you *can* have all of MDrummer, UI included.
> 
> If you click open a square in the grid in Edit>FX, it should be an option under—I’m on my phone and can’t completely remember, but I think it’s “Generators” or something synonymish. Should be the whole deal.
> 
> The caveat here is that I don’t have MDrummer separately, so I don’t know for sure that it’s the full thing, but what I get in the FX tab looks like the pictures of MDrummer on the Melda website.


Msoundfactory has drum sampler modules but it isn't MDrummer which is a separate product as far as I can tell. For me shit gets so confusing some times it's hard to keep up.


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## h.s.j.e (Jan 19, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Msoundfactory has drum sampler modules but it isn't MDrummer which is a separate product as far as I can tell. For me shit gets so confusing some times it's hard to keep up.


This is what I'm getting:





Here's where I'm finding it:




Is that not the real deal?

EDIT: also, I realized I was short, here, but it's not my intention to be combative or anything. I just genuinely think/thought I was actually getting MDrummer, and I'm still confused if I'm not.


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## sostenuto (Jan 19, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> MDrummer isn't in my list of generators. There is the following drum-related options:
> Drum Multisampler
> Drum Scratcher
> Drum SubSampleSynth
> ...


Messaged Melda Prod to clarify. Above suggests MSF can use MDrummer _ if MD has also been purchased.


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## sostenuto (Jan 19, 2022)

Ha! Even Melda Reply message is confusing, but seems no way 'full' MDrummer usable unless purchased separately.


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## José Herring (Jan 19, 2022)

h.s.j.e said:


> This is what I'm getting:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No. That is the MDrummer library in Msoundfactory drum sampler. Not Mdrummer which is this.


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## Nico5 (Jan 19, 2022)

as @h.s.j.e pointed out, MDrummer is not in the Generators, but in the FX section of MSoundFactory.

The modules in the generators are just the "oscillator" modules from MDrummer, effectively allowing access to the sample libraries and drum synth parts of MDrummer, but not the pattern player/drum machine.

I have a full MDrummer License, and it seems to work for me - i.e. I can select kits and patterns and have it play like a full drum machine from inside MSoundFactory.

Unfortunately that doesn't prove things one way or another for individuals without the MDrummer full license.

However by analogy, I don't think MXXX has all of the FX working unless you also have licenses for those. So I assume the same applies for MDrummer.

Side note: MXXX also has MDrummer working for me, since I have licenses for all of the Melda stuff.


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## b_elliott (Jan 19, 2022)

Calling @Chandler. 

If you are free, can you add some clarity on Msoundfactory proper vs MDrummer. Specifically,

1. Some of us own MSF and MDrummer and can use MDrummer inside MSF.

2. Some of us only own MSF. Though I do not own MDrummer as yet, I still have access to its libraries using samplers listed in the Generators catalog inside MSF. Additionally, inside my MSF's FX listing it specifically displays MDrummer.

Question: What MDrummer functionality do #2 users have versus #1 users?

Several vi members have posted screenshots above my posting if that helps show what I am asking.

Sure would appreciate your time on this matter.
Best, Bill


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## h.s.j.e (Jan 19, 2022)

José Herring said:


> No. That is the MDrummer library in Msoundfactory drum sampler. Not Mdrummer which is this.



Oh, man. I feel a little bit crazy continuing to disagree, because I'm pretty sure you know more about it than I do, and because the Melda stuff is sufficiently confusing that I absolutely might be completely wrong here, but I looked into it, and I'm pretty sure, now, that it's actually the full thing. 

I figured from the UI that the video you shared was of an older version of MDrummer, so I looked up the intro video on Melda's website, here: 

I compared the UI tabs and functionalities from the video to what I have open in MSF. As far as I can tell, the version of MDrummer I'm loading in the MSF FX tab has all of the functionality and UI screens I saw in the video. 

I did the same thing with PowerSynth. It's available in the Synthesis category on the FX Tab, and it has the same UI as is shown on the PowerSynth product page on Melda's website. 

Since I don't own a license for PowerSynth or MDrummer, I'm pretty convinced that the plugins are actually there for all Soundfactory owners, regardless of whether they own the other plugins separately or not.

But...

...I could definitely be missing something; it wouldn't surprise me to discover a whole other tab or set of functions I just didn't see when I did my comparisons.


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## Nico5 (Jan 19, 2022)

h.s.j.e said:


> Oh, man. I feel a little bit crazy continuing to disagree, because I'm pretty sure you know more about it than I do, and because the Melda stuff is sufficiently confusing that I absolutely might be completely wrong here, but I looked into it, and I'm pretty sure, now, that it's actually the full thing.
> 
> I figured from the UI that the video you shared was of an older version of MDrummer, so I looked up the intro video on Melda's website, here:
> 
> ...



can you play these instruments in your MSF? 

Also, everything Melda has an implicit trial license for so many days, which might confuse the issue - i.e. things work for a while until the implied trial is up


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## José Herring (Jan 19, 2022)

h.s.j.e said:


> Oh, man. I feel a little bit crazy continuing to disagree, because I'm pretty sure you know more about it than I do, and because the Melda stuff is sufficiently confusing that I absolutely might be completely wrong here, but I looked into it, and I'm pretty sure, now, that it's actually the full thing.
> 
> I figured from the UI that the video you shared was of an older version of MDrummer, so I looked up the intro video on Melda's website, here:
> 
> ...



I think at this point @doctoremmet needs to clarify both our confusion but as far as I know Mdrummer is a Drum sequencer type plugin and not just a sample play back device. But I will be back in the studio tonight and fully research it.


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## h.s.j.e (Jan 19, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> can you play these instruments in your MSF?
> 
> Also, everything Melda has an implicit trial license for so many days, which might confuse the issue - i.e. things work for a while until the implied trial is up


Yep! I can! I used up an MSoundfactory Trial a few years ago doing KVR's OSC, so I've had the plugin on my harddrive for years, but activated it when I bought a license in December.


José Herring said:


> I think at this point @doctoremmet needs to clarify both our confusion but as far as I know Mdrummer is a Drum sequencer type plugin and not just a sample play back device. But I will be back in the studio tonight and fully research it.


Haha, agreed! My last muddying-of-the-waters: I ran through the "Song," and "Rhythm Editor," tabs, and they worked, as well! Buuuut....I could be missing something .


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## Nico5 (Jan 19, 2022)

h.s.j.e said:


> Yep! I can! I used up an MSoundfactory Trial a few years ago doing KVR's OSC, so I've had the plugin on my harddrive for years, but activated it when I bought a license in December.


What I'm wondering now is, if maybe you're on implicit trial version licenses of MDrummer and PowerSynth.


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## h.s.j.e (Jan 19, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> What I'm wondering now is, if maybe you're on implicit trial version licenses of MDrummer and PowerSynth.


Ahhhhh! That could be what I'm missing! It's been nearly two months, so I'm still skeptical, but as we've all been saying - we might just need clarification from Chandler.


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## Nico5 (Jan 19, 2022)

José Herring said:


> but as far as I know Mdrummer is a Drum sequencer type plugin and not just a sample play back device. But I will be back in the studio tonight and fully research it.


Yes indeed, as I mentioned in my prior post in this thread, MDrummer is a full drum machine, including fills, start, stop - many, many patterns, song mode, a drum kit builder. That's in addition to the drum sample libraries and drum synths which provide the drum sounds.


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## Nico5 (Jan 19, 2022)

h.s.j.e said:


> It's been nearly two months


but the respective evaluation clocks may have only started ticking when you first fired up MDrummer and MPowerSynth respectively inside MSF. So you may not be that long into those trial licenses?


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## kevinh (Jan 19, 2022)

If anyone does plan to jump in don’t forget that any active user can give you his/her referral code for 20% discount. This is a one time EVER coupon so don’t waste it like me on a small upgrade. Use it for something more expensive because you won’t get this back. And if you use the referral code the person that shared it a also gets a 10% coupon.


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## cedricm (Jan 24, 2022)

Does the referral coupon work if you purchase MSoundfactory from another seller, such as pluginboutique, or only on Melda's site?

So where are we with MSoundFactory vs MDrummer?
Are none of the MDrummer patterns useable in MSoundFactory?


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## José Herring (Jan 25, 2022)

cedricm said:


> Does the referral coupon work if you purchase MSoundfactory from another seller, such as pluginboutique, or only on Melda's site?
> 
> So where are we with MSoundFactory vs MDrummer?
> Are none of the MDrummer patterns useable in MSoundFactory?


They are two different products. If you have MDrummer then you can bring up MDrummer in MSoundFactory. If you don't then you can use only the sounds.


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## José Herring (Jan 25, 2022)

h.s.j.e said:


> Ahhhhh! That could be what I'm missing! It's been nearly two months, so I'm still skeptical, but as we've all been saying - we might just need clarification from Chandler.


It could be the type of trial that times out after a period of time.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 25, 2022)

I'm a little disappointed about this. For myself, I was unlikely to use MDrummer anyway; but everything official I've read indicates that it is included in MSoundFactory. So now I realise that I can't rely on natural interpretations of Melda's claims about it's products.

Still, they are great products, and it would have been commercially somewhat unwise to include MDrummer in MSoundFactory without an additional license.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 25, 2022)

I have never seen it advertised as being fully functional / usable inside of MSF, other than the samples being available for use in patches. Not in the sense that once you’d buy MSF there would be no need to purchase MDrummer anymore. I agree that the fact that it is sort of available for those who have an MDrummer license does add to the confusion. But I wouldn’t go as far as to conclude Melda’s marketing is not to be trusted?


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 25, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I have never seen it advertised as being fully functional / usable inside of MSF, other than the samples being available for use in patches. Not in the sense that once you’d buy MSF there would be no need to purchase MDrummer anymore. I agree that the fact that it is sort of available for those who have an MDrummer license does add to the confusion. But I wouldn’t go as far as to conclude Melda’s marketing is not to be trusted?


I'm not suggesting any lack of probity, just a lack of communication skills. I can't go back through every quotation now as I've lost track.

To be charitable, I shall say that the gap between implications of statements and plausible inferences made from those statements leaves me lacking confidence in what I will be getting when I buy a Melda plugin. Other than that it will be excellent!

It's annoyingly endemic across companies, though, and is really a consequence of complexity, so no blame or recriminations were intended.


----------



## doctoremmet (Jan 25, 2022)

Gotcha. Agree on the occasional lack of communication skills, see my earlier example posted here haha.


----------



## applegrovebard (Jan 25, 2022)

Last week I got notice from Plugin Boutique of a developer livestream with Vojtech (Melda) Meluzin to take place on 20/01/22. I wasn't able to link to it when it was supposed to be happening or after. Did anyone catch it?

Re MSound factory what do people think of the 'instruments' included ie those with their own interface? A mixed bag it seems to me but some gems among them. 

Another question: although there is a multi gigabyte download of samples I'm not clear what role these play in the presets. There don't seem to be any conventional multi sample plus synthesis presets except Monastery Grand? Also there seem to be no guitars, either sampled or synthesized. I've just got MSound factory and am exploring it to see exactly what I have here...


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## doctoremmet (Jan 25, 2022)

1. That livestream was canceled at the last minute due to technical problems and has been rescheduled


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 25, 2022)

applegrovebard said:


> Last week I got notice from Plugin Boutique of a developer livestream with Vojtech (Melda) Meluzin to take place on 20/01/22. I wasn't able to link to it when it was supposed to be happening or after. Did anyone catch it?
> 
> Re MSound factory what do people think of the 'instruments' included ie those with their own interface? A mixed bag it seems to me but some gems among them.
> 
> Another question: although there is a multi gigabyte download of samples I'm not clear what role these play in the presets. There don't seem to be any conventional multi sample plus synthesis presets except Monastery Grand? Also there seem to be no guitars, either sampled or synthesized. I've just got MSound factory and am exploring it to see exactly what I have here...


I wondered about the relationship between the samples and the presets. I think one of the downloads is needed for the presets.

I don't like Monastery Grand. It doesn't sound right somehow. Am I missing something? I got the impression it was well thought of.

I haven't found an included instrument I would be likely to use, but they seem pretty decent on the whole.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 25, 2022)

2. A lot of the included instruments are pretty good actually and a decent % of them were done by Chandler I suppose. I have mostly used them for reverse engineering / learning purposes


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 25, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> 2. A lot of the included instruments are pretty good actually and a decent % of them were done by Chandler I suppose. I have mostly used them for reverse engineering / learning purposes


Yes, I'm very glad to have them for that!


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## doctoremmet (Jan 25, 2022)

3. I don’t regard MSF as a sample based synthesizer first and foremost to be honest and I don’t expect a lot of expansions in that specific “realm”. But having the samples available for sound design purposes, to create synth sounds… that can come handy.


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## cedricm (Jan 25, 2022)

José Herring said:


> They are two different products. If you have MDrummer then you can bring up MDrummer in MSoundFactory. If you don't then you can use only the sounds.


This is really confusing.
Here is Melda's answer to my query, which seems to prove the opposite:

"Hi there,

Thank you for your email.

You can use MDrummer inside MSoundFactory basically without any limitations.

But of course if you would like to use MDrummer as a VSTi and for its main purpose then it's highly recommended to use it as an individual MDrummer."


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 25, 2022)

cedricm said:


> This is really confusing.
> Here is Melda's answer to my query, which seems to prove the opposite:
> 
> "Hi there,
> ...


Now we know that this must be scrutinised for ambiguities!

a) perhaps using MDrummer inside MSoundFactory does not include all of its sequencing functions, but only all of its sound design capactities.
b) perhaps it is simply meant that MDrummer can be used in MSoundFactory (completely) - but only if you own a separate MDrummer license.
c) the main purpose of MDrummer is to run as a VSTi, not to design drum sounds or to sequence them, and both of those functions work inside MSoundFactory with or without a separate MDrummer license.

I think c) is out of the question.

I suspect b) is true.

I'm pretty sure that a) is.

Any other suggestions?!


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## José Herring (Jan 25, 2022)

cedricm said:


> This is really confusing.
> Here is Melda's answer to my query, which seems to prove the opposite:
> 
> "Hi there,
> ...


Wow. I honestly can't even make sense of that email. What a confusion.


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## gohrev (Jan 25, 2022)

I _just _bought their MConvolution Reverb. Wonderful stuff.


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## cedricm (Jan 25, 2022)

Oh well, I think I'll wait the next MSoundFactory sale.
In the meantime, should you discover an MDrummer limitation in MSoundFactory, please document it


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## Nico5 (Jan 25, 2022)

cedricm said:


> Oh well, I think I'll wait the next MSoundFactory sale.


both MSoundFactory and MDrummer are currently around 60% off at PluginBoutique


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## José Herring (Jan 25, 2022)

Okay I finally figured this out.

@h.s.j.e is correct. I can now access all of MDrummer and MPowersynth through the FX section in MSoundFactory. It seems to be working without limitations.

Not only that but you can access all of MSoundfactory in MSoundFactory through the FX section.

Give it a try and see if I'm missing anything.

Open MSoundfactory
Click Edit
Go to the FX section
Go to the Synthesis section and you will see MDrummer, Powersynth and SoundFactory listed. You can access the full versions of these in MSoundfactory. Why you can, I'm not sure.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 25, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Okay I finally figured this out.
> 
> @h.s.j.e is correct. I can now access all of MDrummer and MPowersynth through the FX section in MSoundFactory. It seems to be working without limitations.
> 
> ...



Thank you! Of course, it wouldn't be listed with the oscillators! I should have realised that!

But I didn't...


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## rrichard63 (Jan 25, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Okay I finally figured this out.
> 
> @h.s.j.e is correct. I can now access all of MDrummer and MPowersynth through the FX section in MSoundFactory. It seems to be working without limitations.
> 
> ...


Does the computer on which you tested this have a licensed copy of MDrummer installed?

If yes, would somebody who does not have an MDrummer license please repeat the same test on his/her system? Thanks!


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 25, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Does the computer on which you tested this have a licensed copy of MDrummer installed?
> 
> If yes, would somebody who does not have an MDrummer license please repeat the same test on his/her system? Thanks!



I don't have an MDrummer license, and MDrummer is indeed in the Synthesiser section of the Effects.

I still don't know how to use it fully and, not having MDrummer, I can't compare the options.


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## José Herring (Jan 25, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I don't have an MDrummer license, and MDrummer is indeed in the Synthesiser section of the Effects.
> 
> I still don't know how to use it fully and, not having MDrummer, I can't compare the options.


I downloaded the MDrummer Demo and found that it's identical to MDrummer inside MSoundfactory. So I can't find what's missing other than in both versions it seems to be really difficult to figure out the mixer mostly because it's so damn hard to read. Famous Melda GUI strikes again. For such professional sounding plugins is hard to imagine why the GUI's are so bad. 

Also, I have used MPowersynth for years so know that the Powersynth in MSoundfactory is the exact same which is kind of cool.

Then it is mind boggling that you can pull up a full version of MSoundfactory within MSoundfactory. I think they are playing a joke


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## Nico5 (Jan 25, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Then it is mind boggling that you can pull up a full version of MSoundfactory within MSoundfactory. I think they are playing a joke


The same joke exists in PluginGuru Unify. 

But it actually makes a lot of sense when creating a meta instrument from several individual instruments.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 25, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Then it is mind boggling that you can pull up a full version of MSoundfactory within MSoundfactory. I think they are playing a joke


No this is actually functional!


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## sostenuto (Jan 25, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I downloaded the MDrummer Demo and found that it's identical to MDrummer inside MSoundfactory. So I can't find what's missing other than in both versions it seems to be really difficult to figure out the mixer mostly because it's so damn hard to read. Famous Melda GUI strikes again. For such professional sounding plugins is hard to imagine why the GUI's are so bad.
> 
> Also, I have used MPowersynth for years so know that the Powersynth in MSoundfactory is the exact same which is kind of cool.
> 
> Then it is mind boggling that you can pull up a full version of MSoundfactory within MSoundfactory. I think they are playing a joke


I wanna believe, but very hard if MDrummer is $109. / MSoundfactory @ $132. at Plugin Boutique.
I asked Melda Prod as well _ here is their Reply:
" MDrummer can be used in the MSoundFactory's FX section, you can also use all of its great drum samplers and synthesizers inside the Generator modular environment.
But you can't use MDrummer itself as an individual instrument (out of MSoundFactory). In this case you need to own the individual MDrummer licence "

Seems some MDrummer functionality is in MSoundfactory, but not full VSTi capability.


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## José Herring (Jan 25, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> I wanna believe, but very hard if MDrummer is $109. / MSoundfactory @ $132. at Plugin Boutique.
> I asked Melda Prod as well, and received confusing Reply as well. Seems some MDrummer functionality is in MSoundfactory, but not full VSTi capability. Hope I'm wrong, not not going ot gamble without more clarity.


I think they are making it purposely confusing and I'm glad @h.s.j.e persisted.

I read another thread on KVR going down this same path and Melda stated that you could do this but then left the thread in the same confusion that we are experiencing now. But this is what I gathered so far.

MDrummer and Powersynth need to be part of MSoundfactory in case some developer or Melda themselves create an instrument in MSoundfactory that needs the functionality. It has been stated that MSoundfactory is in its infancy and it's hoped that it will be the last instrument that Medla makes thus it is safe to assume that in the future the other two Melda instruments will just be folded into this one and perhaps no longer offered. But that is an assumption.


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## sostenuto (Jan 25, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I think they are making it purposely confusing and I'm glad @h.s.j.e persisted.
> 
> I read another thread on KVR going down this same path and Melda stated that you could do this but then left the thread in the same confusion that we are experiencing now. But this is what I gathered so far.
> 
> MDrummer and Powersynth need to be part of MSoundfactory in case some developer or Melda themselves create an instrument in MSoundfactory that needs the functionality. It has been stated that MSoundfactory is in its infancy and it's hoped that it will be the last instrument that Medla makes thus it is safe to assume that in the future the other two Melda instruments will just be folded into this one and perhaps no longer offered. But that is an assumption.


This also, from MSounfactory descriptive text: 
MDrummer modules​You can not only put MDrummer inside MSoundFactory's FX section, you can also use all of its great drum samplers and synthesizers inside the Generator modular environment. Creating both acoustic and electronic drums inside your sounds have never been easier.

Doesn't go on to emphasize need to purchase MDrummer separately to do this _ as well as use full MDrummer functionality as VSTi. 
I am off in a limited interest area here, _MDrummer_, and was temporarily pumped up to think $132. for MSoundfactory could include it. All seems clearer now.


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## José Herring (Jan 25, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> This also, from MSounfactory descriptive text:
> MDrummer modules​You can not only put MDrummer inside MSoundFactory's FX section, you can also use all of its great drum samplers and synthesizers inside the Generator modular environment. Creating both acoustic and electronic drums inside your sounds have never been easier.
> 
> Doesn't go on to emphasize need to purchase MDrummer separately to do this _ as well as use full MDrummer functionality as VSTi.
> I am off in a limited interest area here, _MDrummer_, and was temporarily pumped up to think $132. for MSoundfactory could include it. All seems clearer now.


"Never been easier"..... It took two forums and serveral weeks of inquiry to figure this out. Jesus! Drumlab for this has "never been easier", I'm still trying to figure out how to lower the overheads in MDrummer....wow....


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 25, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> This also, from MSounfactory descriptive text:
> MDrummer modules​You can not only put MDrummer inside MSoundFactory's FX section, you can also use all of its great drum samplers and synthesizers inside the Generator modular environment. Creating both acoustic and electronic drums inside your sounds have never been easier.
> 
> Doesn't go on to emphasize need to purchase MDrummer separately to do this _ as well as use full MDrummer functionality as VSTi.
> I am off in a limited interest area here, _MDrummer_, and was temporarily pumped up to think $132. for MSoundfactory could include it. All seems clearer now.


But MSoundFactory is a VSTi. So if it does all the drumming of MDrummer, there is no need to get MDrummer once you have MSoundFactory.

Now, with the other effects, it makes sense to have separate plugins so you can apply them to other instruments, and as sends. But that doesn’t apply to MDrummer.

I think that’s right... In other words, Sostenuto, you might want to buy MSoundFactory if it doesn’t cost much more. Or play it safe and go with the only thing you want (it should lower the price if you want MSoundFactory later).

Or get something else that’s easier to figure out. Like an actual drum.


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## sostenuto (Jan 25, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> But MSoundFactory is a VSTi. So if it does all the drumming of MDrummer, there is no need to get MDrummer once you have MSoundFactory.
> 
> Now, with the other effects, it makes sense to have separate plugins so you can apply them to other instruments, and as sends. But that doesn’t apply to MDrummer.
> 
> ...


Clearly MSoundfactory is super deal @ $132.* if* full MDrummer capability is present. Melda Prod info does not state this, and not sure that other posts do either. Hope PB Promo holds a bit longer to better sort how much MSF actually does with MDr. 
Admittedly, non-drummer limitations make this deep capability more of future potential. Same with UVI - Drum Designer _ especially after Venus Theory YT.
Kit designers' choices are preferred, at this point, versus changing out various kicks, snares, etc.


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## José Herring (Jan 25, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> But MSoundFactory is a VSTi. So if it does all the drumming of MDrummer, there is no need to get MDrummer once you have MSoundFactory.
> 
> Now, with the other effects, it makes sense to have separate plugins so you can apply them to other instruments, and as sends. But that doesn’t apply to MDrummer.
> 
> ...


It does seem rather redundant to get MDrummer if you have MSoundfactory. So far I haven't spotted one difference between the VSTI version and the MSoundfactory version. 

Since I know MPowersynth rather well I can say that both versions are identical. So it's almost safe to assume that both versions of MDrummer are identical. As a matter of fact when working with MDrummer in MSoundfactory you forget that you're even in MSoundfactory. It's a fairly transpart host in that regard. 

Bonus is that now I've been introduced to MDrummer and it sounds great!


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## José Herring (Jan 25, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Clearly MSoundfactory is super deal @ $132.* if* full MDrummer capability is present. Melda Prod info does not state this, and not sure that other posts do either. Hope PB Promo holds a bit longer to better sort how much MSF actually does with MDr.
> Admittedly, non-drummer limitations make this deep capability more of future potential. Same with UVI - Drum Designer _ especially after Venus Theory YT.
> Kit designers' choices are preferred, at this point, versus changing out various kicks, snares, etc.


I've been eyeing UVI Drum Designer. I'll check out his video. 

Also, Venus Theory pretty inspiring. To achieve what he has is remarkable.


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## sostenuto (Jan 25, 2022)

José Herring said:


> It does seem rather redundant to get MDrummer if you have MSoundfactory. So far I haven't spotted one difference between the VSTI version and the MSoundfactory version.
> 
> Since I know MPowersynth rather well I can say that both versions are identical. So it's almost safe to assume that both versions of MDrummer are identical. As a matter of fact when working with MDrummer in MSoundfactory you forget that you're even in MSoundfactory. It's a fairly transpart host in that regard.
> 
> Bonus is that now I've been introduced to MDrummer and it sounds great!


Leaning to MSF ! IF _ only benefit of MDr for -$23. is standalone VSTi usage, MSF is no brainer, in my case. Thank-you for much added testing and info !

Regards


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 25, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Clearly MSoundfactory is super deal @ $132.* if* full MDrummer capability is present. Melda Prod info does not state this, and not sure that other posts do either. Hope PB Promo holds a bit longer to better sort how much MSF actually does with MDr.
> Admittedly, non-drummer limitations make this deep capability more of future potential. Same with UVI - Drum Designer _ especially after Venus Theory YT.
> Kit designers' choices are preferred, at this point, versus changing out various kicks, snares, etc.





José Herring said:


> It does seem rather redundant to get MDrummer if you have MSoundfactory. So far I haven't spotted one difference between the VSTI version and the MSoundfactory version.
> 
> Since I know MPowersynth rather well I can say that both versions are identical. So it's almost safe to assume that both versions of MDrummer are identical. As a matter of fact when working with MDrummer in MSoundfactory you forget that you're even in MSoundfactory. It's a fairly transpart host in that regard.
> 
> Bonus is that now I've been introduced to MDrummer and it sounds great!





José Herring said:


> I've been eyeing UVI Drum Designer. I'll check out his video.
> 
> Also, Venus Theory pretty inspiring. To achieve what he has is remarkable.


He is inspiring, but he also makes every product look great. It is only safe to watch his videos if he is covering something you already own.

Also, the sale on UVI’s Drum Designer seems to have ended.


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## José Herring (Jan 25, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Leaning to MSF ! IF _ only benefit of MDr for -$23. is standalone VSTi usage, MSF is no brainer, in my case. Thank-you for much added testing and info !
> 
> Regards


If you need any help with MSF hit us up in this part of the forum. It takes a little getting use to but everyday that I work with it, the more excited I get. It's really a great find and I have @doctoremmet to thank for urging me in this direction. I was on the fence for a while.


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## Nico5 (Jan 25, 2022)

José Herring said:


> So far I haven't spotted one difference between the VSTI version and the MSoundfactory version.


I think you can have more individual audio outputs from the VST than from inside MSF.


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## h.s.j.e (Jan 25, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Okay I finally figured this out.
> @h.s.j.e is correct. I can now access all of MDrummer and MPowersynth through the FX section in MSoundFactory. It seems to be working without limitations.
> 
> Not only that but you can access all of MSoundfactory in MSoundFactory through the FX section.
> ...


Haha, thanks for the shout-out! Glad I’m not crazy, and most of all I’m glad we all get MDrummer and Powersynth, and I’m not going to wake up one day to a “Trial Ended” screen.

Their communication is so strangely obtuse. On the one hand, they hype that you can use MDrummer and Powersynth inside of MSF, and on the other hand, they keep selling the standard versions and don’t tell you explicitly where to find them inside of MSF.

@sostenuto If you just need one more enthusiastic voice, I totally endorse joining the MSF party. It’s terrific—although there are a couple of multi parameter, custom gui, and arp options I’d love to see them adopt for instrument-building purposes.


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## tressie5 (Apr 18, 2022)

I'm curious now - If I get MSoundFactory, I no longer need my MPowerSynth since there's one in MSF? BTW, Melda's own site has a confusing entry. To wit: 

"Download MeldaProduction universal installer, run it and make sure you select *MSoundFactory* to be installed. You will get *MSoundFactory* when the fully-functional MSoundFactory 15-days trial version expires."


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## Superabbit (May 2, 2022)

I hope I'm not stepping on any toes or violating a term of service that I missed, but I'm a MeldaMoonie and saw someone mention the Meldaproduction referral code in passing. It deserves being spelled out in more detail. Using one gets you 20% off a purchase the first time you use it (I had thought that you had to use it on your _first purchase_, but apparently that's not the case, it's a one time coupon). The purchase has to be directly from Meldaproduction's site.

The way to get what you want from Meldaproduction as cheaply as possible (outside of a reseller's special sale price, which can be really good) is to wait for the product you want to come up on the Eternal Madness Sale, where he rotates the entire catalog through a week-long 50% off sale 3 products at a time. So for instance, when MSF comes up in the Eternal Madness Sale, it will be about $155, and with the referral code, another 20% off. Makes it about $120 if my math is right. Also, don't forget to do this: if you sign up for their newsletter for the first time, you will get a 10€ credit. Stack all that up and MSF gets even cheaper.

If it takes a while for your desired product to come up, a couple of times a year they have 50% off _everything_ sales. I once took great advantage of a 60% off everything sale they had. Wound up with the MEssentialBundle for next to nothing because with bundles, they credit your previous purchases if the products are in the bundle.

My referral code is *MELDA1923165. *Almost nobody here knows me by this handle, I'll point out that you can use _any_ existing user's code, if you'd rather that a friend get the credits. I'm not grubbing for store credit, I just want my fellow producers of sound to get the maximum fun for their bucks/euros. Use my code, use whoever's code.

(And of course, if it's against the forum rules to post personal discount codes, let me know and I will strike it immediately, with all apologies.)


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## Pier (Jul 14, 2022)

So does MSF include *all* Melda effects?

I was looking at MTurboAmp and it's amazing.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 14, 2022)

Pier said:


> So does MSF include *all* Melda effects?
> 
> I was looking at MTurboAmp and it's amazing.



It will do; I don't think it's been updated to include the new amp yet.


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## lychee (Jul 14, 2022)

> *Time to jump on the Melda express?*​



I've always been interested in Melda products, but there's one thing that always put me off about these plugins, the interfaces that are clearly not user friendly.
I tested a demo one day because I needed a pitch shifter, and just for this simple pitch plugin I was traumatized, because I think you need a PhD in engineering to master it.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 14, 2022)

lychee said:


> I've always been interested in Melda products, but there's one thing that always put me off about these plugins, the interfaces that are clearly not user friendly.
> I tested a demo one day because I needed a pitch shifter, and just for this simple pitch plugin I was traumatized, because I think you need a PhD in engineering to master it.


They aren't hard to use at all! Just a little plain-looking, and with a couple of issues like pop up menus that need to be closed as a separate click and parameters that don't return to zero without entering the number.

The consistency across all Melda plugins means you only have to familiarise yourself with the approach once.

Though I do think it is funny that options for different interfaces were introduced, but it is only in some barely noticeable colours at the boarders.


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## José Herring (Jul 14, 2022)

Pier said:


> So does MSF include *all* Melda effects?
> 
> I was looking at MTurboAmp and it's amazing.



Under the TurboAmpX. Look at that sweet thang!


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## José Herring (Jul 14, 2022)

Even MPS has it.


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## Pier (Jul 15, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Under the TurboAmpX. Look at that sweet thang!


Is there anything MSF cannot do? 😂


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## doctoremmet (Jul 15, 2022)

Pier said:


> Is there anything MSF cannot do? 😂


It is one step away from becoming sentient


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## Pier (Jul 15, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> It is one step away from becoming sentient


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## doctoremmet (Jul 15, 2022)

“Make a 100 patch soundset with loads of comb filters at a level that Bee’s mum would immediately approve of”

“I’m sorry but I can’t do that Pier”


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 15, 2022)

Pier said:


> Is there anything MSF cannot do? 😂


Can it heal a broken heart?


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## Pier (Jul 16, 2022)

I've been playing for like an hour with the demo of MSF and sweet mother of Jesus... yeah it's good.

I haven't even scratched the surface... more like looked at it... from a distance 😂 but here are my quick initial impressions.

The UI is ugly but honestly it's not as bad as I assumed it would be. The weirdest thing is actually how some panels are stretched over a huge space.

Regarding the general workflow... it's... fine? There's practically no learning curve for the bread and butter stuff. In like 10 mins I was adding oscillators, filters, effects, modulations, etc. The navigation between modules is very quick. Click on the grid, open a module, edit. Reminds me a lot of Zebra.

Of course it has its own idiosyncrasies and I've had a couple of head scratching moments, but the general structure makes perfect sense. A lot more sense than say Falcon which is structured like a Russian Matryoshka doll of nested layers and doesn't seem to want to help you navigate that structure. MSF is direct and straight forward.

MSF has a lot of little things that are fantastic in terms of workflow. For example, all generator modules have a mix knob for example. When I saw that I said "exactly!" out loud. All synths should have that.

Many of the advanced modules will certainly take time to master, but thanks to the presets with custom UIs (like MTurboDelay) I really don't see myself digging deeper than that for quite some time. I mean, does anyone really need more than 40 freaking delay plugins?






And the sound... I love it but don't expect the U-He mojo here. It does have some "analog" options for pitch drifting and such but, so far, I wouldn't say it has a naturally analog juicy sound. It's probably the filters although maybe I just need to dig deeper into this thing.

I could go on for hours... but yeah this is really a "desert island synth". It's not a synth though... it's more like everything everywhere all at once.

Yeah I'm a convert. I've seen the light.

And I still haven't even loaded a sample 😂


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## doctoremmet (Jul 16, 2022)

Pier said:


> I've been playing for like an hour with the demo of MSF and sweet mother of Jesus... yeah it's good.
> 
> I haven't even scratched the surface... more like looked at it... from a distance 😂 but here are my quick initial impressions.
> 
> ...


Atta boy!

Pier, this post just makes me happy. Waiting for another “mind blown” post as soon as you’ve stumbled upon TurboReverb


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 16, 2022)

Pier said:


> I've been playing for like an hour with the demo of MSF and sweet mother of Jesus... yeah it's good.
> 
> I haven't even scratched the surface... more like looked at it... from a distance 😂 but here are my quick initial impressions.
> 
> ...


Give it time. You'll find some reason to hate it and give up in despair!

Hopefully not!

Actually, I don't find it nearly that easy to use and I'm far less keen on the sound compared to another synth that I think it is probably unnecessary to mention but which is incredibly intuitive to use because of all the great layers and nesting.


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## Pier (Jul 16, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Waiting for another “mind blown” post as soon as you’ve stumbled upon TurboReverb


Oh I've stumbled upon it alright 😂

My current impression is "Jesus fucking Christ this is the best algo reverb I've ever heard". It might be a bit premature though.

Edit:

I thought Benn Jordan was probably exaggerating when he said it's one of the best reverbs but now I feel sincere regret.


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 16, 2022)

There isn’t one single best reverb, but MTR does sound incredible. And if you’re into building actual algos… you can.

But I just stick to the warm hall preset which is gorgeous.


----------



## Pier (Jul 16, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> There isn’t one single best reverb


Of course you're right.

I'm just gettin a bit carried away...


----------



## Nico5 (Jul 16, 2022)

I’m incredibly grateful for every late adopter, because it makes the “lifetime free updates” possible.

Having been reasonably early on the entire Melda Express, my level of feeling smug is growing to disconcerting levels, though


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jul 16, 2022)

It's $150 on Knobcloud currently. The vender would be paying the transfer fee by the looks of it.

That's a good price.


----------



## Pier (Jul 16, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> It's $150 on Knobcloud currently. The vender would be paying the transfer fee by the looks of it.
> 
> That's a good price.


I contacted that vendor a couple of days ago and they never replied.

I'm guessing the $150 didn't include the $60 transfer fee which would put it at a similar price with the current discount. So I just bought it at Melda


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jul 16, 2022)

Pier said:


> I contacted that vendor a couple of days ago and they never replied.
> 
> I'm guessing the $150 didn't include the $60 transfer fee which would put it at a similar price with the current discount. So I just bought it at Melda


Congratulations! I hope you have found a good match at last.


----------



## method1 (Jul 16, 2022)

I know this is isn't important to everyone, but man the presets are abysmal in MSF, like, this reminds me of some bland romper of yore bad, compared to something like Vital which has been around for a shorter time and has a huge collection of high quality presets. I'm not sure why it hasn't caught on, like mpowersynth which really is a great synth but has almost no 3rd party content.


----------



## Pier (Jul 17, 2022)

I swear this is like the dumbest patch you can imagine.

A single crappy guitar sample I had lying around. One oscillator. Two filters. Reverb, delay.

Oh and Pier's terrible playing 😂


View attachment MSoundFactory 01.mp3


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jul 17, 2022)

Pier said:


> I swear this is like the dumbest patch you can imagine.
> 
> A single crappy guitar sample I had lying around. One oscillator. Two filters. Reverb, delay.
> 
> ...


It sounds pretty splendid to me. I love that it doesn't quite sound like an actual guitar; but that it very much doesn't sound like a synthetic instrument. This is one of my favourite things samples can be used for.


----------



## Pier (Jul 17, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> It sounds pretty splendid to me. I love that it doesn't quite sound like an actual guitar; but that it very much doesn't sound like a synthetic instrument. This is one of my favourite things samples can be used for.


I think it sounds great, specially for a 5 mins sound design excursion. The secret sauce is most likely the Turbo reverb.


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jul 17, 2022)

Pier said:


> I think it sounds great, specially for a 5 mins sound design excursion. The secret sauce is most likely the Turbo reverb.


It's all about that reverb!


----------



## Pier (Jul 17, 2022)

method1 said:


> I know this is isn't important to everyone, but man the presets are abysmal in MSF, like, this reminds me of some bland romper of yore bad


I just listened to a couple of the factory presets (not the devices but the global presets) and I have to agree. These are some of the worst factory presets I've ever heard. Many presets even immediately clip while playing them.

I also played with the monastery grand and liked it. Other devices I just couldn't use... I keep getting errors about samples not found. MSF keeps looking for the samples in the wrong directory. I tried using "find samples" and pointing it to the right directory and it still can't find the samples (I think it's not smart enough to do a recursive search?).

MSF is an amazing sound design environment but it would be a terrible choice to use mostly for the content. In part because of the lack of content (third party or Melda presets) but also because how bad the whole installing/browsing experience is.

Edit:

Turns out the Braam device needed MDrummer samples which I hadn't installed... 😂

And why would I? I'm not using MDrummer I'm using MSF.

Melda needs to polish a lot of stuff before these products are ready for the general public. It's like they don't care at all lol


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jul 17, 2022)

Pier said:


> I just listened to a couple of the factory presets (not the devices but the global presets) and I have to agree. These are some of the worst factory presets I've ever heard. Many presets even immediately clip while playing them.
> 
> I also played with the monastery grand and liked it. Other devices I just couldn't use... I keep getting errors about samples not found. MSF keeps looking for the samples in the wrong directory. I tried using "find samples" and pointing it to the right directory and it still can't find the samples (I think it's not smart enough to do a recursive search?).
> 
> ...


To be fair to Melda, MDrummer is part of MSoundFactory, and those samples are on the list to download for MSoundFactory. It actually keeps prompting me to download them, even though I already have...

I haven't run into any clipping presets; but I have run into a lot of not very interesting ones! Maybe it's me, but Monastery Grand doesn't sound like much either. But - and it's a huge but - just as you said, it is an amazing sound design environment/instrument.


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 17, 2022)

Chandler’s devices are cool. The rest is sh*t. I’ve only ever used MSF to make stuff from scratch. I’ve contacted Vojtek on occassion to inquire about “sample import documentation” and was told “I’ve implemented the full SFZ spec, so just keep that in mind” and that was that. So my approach with MSF is: load init patch and figure it out myself. Which has become part of the fun to be honest. A lot of basic stuff is just really robust and well thought out and especially the combination of all synthesis options (tried FM yet?) and the full set of effects make it a great sound design powerhouse. But it will NEVER become a platform for third party sound development imho. Way too quirky and convoluted install process. A bit like Halion, but actually worse hehe.


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jul 17, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Chandler’s devices are cool. The rest is sh*t. I’ve only ever used MSF to make stuff from scratch. I’ve contacted Vojtek on occassion to inquire about “sample import documentation” and was told “I’ve implemented the full SFZ spec, so just keep that in mind” and that was that. So my approach with MSF is: load init patch and figure it out myself. Which has become part of the fun to be honest. A lot of basic stuff is just really robust and well thought out and especially the combination of all synthesis options (tried FM yet?) and the full set of effects make it a great sound design powerhouse. But it will NEVER become a platform for third party sound development imho. Way too quirky and convoluted install process. A bit like Halion, but actually worse hehe.


That's such a shame. Given the amount we all have to grapple with: DAWs, samples, dodgy volume matching, vsts, everything going wrong every now and then; it is both understandable and vaguely absurd that people won't go through a tricky one-time process to install software that has so much power and potential.


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 17, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> it is both understandable and vaguely absurd that people won't go through a tricky one-time process to install software that has so much power and potential.


Agreed. I can’t understand why people are even bothered by it and do in fact not understand most rants about whatever it is that is bothering people. The tiny little details. Noise. Artifacts in samples. Installation processed that take more than 5 seconds. Whatever! I often feel like I am either gifted with extremely low standards, or an extremely high tolerance for what others deem failures. Or both. I would like to say I give people and developers and their creations the benefit of the doubt, because I’m nice - but I’m not nice. So that can’t be it.


----------



## method1 (Jul 17, 2022)

Pier said:


> I just listened to a couple of the factory presets (not the devices but the global presets) and I have to agree. These are some of the worst factory presets I've ever heard. Many presets even immediately clip while playing them.
> 
> I also played with the monastery grand and liked it. Other devices I just couldn't use... I keep getting errors about samples not found. MSF keeps looking for the samples in the wrong directory. I tried using "find samples" and pointing it to the right directory and it still can't find the samples (I think it's not smart enough to do a recursive search?).
> 
> ...


It's like the dev is more concerned with the amount of features he can add over demonstrating what could potentially be done with those features, the MELDA experience just feels slightly off, and obviously I'm not the only one who feels this way given the lack of 3rd party participation in the system. Loads of features, not much finesse.

Some other grumbles, aside from the installation process (the plug keeps prompting to install factory data even though it's already installed) on my new M1 max, some of these dodgy sounding presets use a huge amount of CPU, but for what? DIVA at divine setting doesn't get close to using that much CPU & sounds much better at least as far as just jumping in with a factory preset.

The 16f beta was really unstable & would crash Cubase just flipping through presets.
Went back to 15.02 which has been more stable so far.


----------



## Pier (Jul 17, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> To be fair to Melda, MDrummer is part of MSoundFactory, and those samples are on the list to download for MSoundFactory.


Of course but I didn't know the device needed MDrummer content.

Not sure how Omnisphere handles this dichotomy between presets and samples.

Ideally MSF should know which devices depend on which samples and download the needed dependencies when downloading a device. There's really no point in downloading half a device that cannot be used.

Or maybe ask you to downloaded the dependencies when opening it for the first time. Or at the very least tell you an error in plain English that "X device needs samples from Y package". I downloaded MDrummer essentials and by pure random luck that's where the missing samples were.



Bee_Abney said:


> it is both understandable and vaguely absurd that people won't go through a tricky one-time process to install software that has so much power and potential.


It's more nuanced than that though.

Most companies invest a lot of time and money on making the products more accessible for the end user. Not only software products. When you go to the supermarket, you get the stuff sorted and ordered for you in the aisles. You're not expected to go to the warehouse and look for your stuff.

And on the other hand, it's not really a one time process either. The installation of factory content, yes, but this "figure it out yourself" mentality is all over the Melda stuff.

Personally I'm fine with all this stuff. I'm a hacker at heart and I've been writing code since I was 6 years old... but I can totally understand why most people would not want to use Melda products. Nobody wants to pay money to feel dumb and frustrated


----------



## method1 (Jul 17, 2022)

Trying to put my biases aside, but I'd rather use this beauty than the current Melda GUI


----------



## Pier (Jul 17, 2022)

method1 said:


> Trying to put my biases aside, but I'd rather use this beauty than the current Melda GUI


----------



## Pier (Jul 17, 2022)

So what is the difference between full MSF and the free player?

Is it only having the "edit" button that opens Pandora's box?


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jul 17, 2022)

Pier said:


> Of course but I didn't know the device needed MDrummer content.
> 
> Not sure how Omnisphere handles this dichotomy between presets and samples.
> 
> ...



I was thinking of what would be necessary as an end user of a third-party instrument. Programming synths can make anyone feel at sea when you aren't familiar with it. And the deeper you go with particular software, the more it helps to have background knowledge.

I'm very much uncomfortable with computers generally. It all feels unnatural to me; so I may not be very sensitive to the subtle gradings of intuitiveness.


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## method1 (Jul 17, 2022)

Some more improvements. OK enough spam.


----------



## Pier (Jul 17, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I was thinking of what would be necessary as an end user of a third-party instrument.


Melda's website says this:



> There will be a dedicated MSoundFactory installer to be provided for third parties, currently please just instruct your customers to install MSoundFactory via the universal installer on our download page.











MeldaProduction


MeldaProduction, professional audio processing software, VST / VST3 / AU / AAX plugins for mixing, mastering and creative music processing



www.meldaproduction.com





This could be a huge hit with third party developers if Melda improved the navigation of device presets. Right now it's just a raw file explorer.


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jul 17, 2022)

Pier said:


> Melda's website says this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's not much worse than U-he or full Kontakt libraries, aside from quickload.

But some people find scrolling past sample folders to get to presets in third-party Falcon libraries unbearable. It really doesn't take much to make people steer clear. So every little thing is relevant to courting users; and making something a viable platform for third-party products.


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## José Herring (Jul 18, 2022)

method1 said:


> Trying to put my biases aside, but I'd rather use this beauty than the current Melda GUI


I have to admit times were simpler back then. Reminds me of my old Studio Vision. So easy to see and read.


----------



## Nico5 (Jul 18, 2022)

I wonder, if it would make more sense to compare MSoundFactory and MXXX to tools like Reaktor and the Reason Rack and similar modular environments?


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 18, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> I wonder, if it would make more sense to compare MSoundFactory and MXXX to tools like Reaktor and the Reason Rack and similar modular environments?


I agree that those a solid bases of comparison or MSoundFactory; but I think it is a bit closer in operation to Falcon and has a similar workflow to Zebra2 for patching.

MXXX is a bit more like some other plugin hosts, most especially Kilohearts' Multipass, but also Metaplugin. Metapluing, and Presonus' Splitter can host any plugins, which makes them more versatile. Of course, the full MXXX comes with the full Melda range of plugins and thus you won't be short of variety!


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## tressie5 (Jul 18, 2022)

If Melda's stuff was as purty as this, I bet Pier would be champing at the bit to own and use them.


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## Nico5 (Jul 19, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> MXXX is a bit more like some other plugin hosts


I'd hesitate to compare MXXX to other plugin chainers like Metaplugin, Plogue's Bidule, BlueCat's Patchwork or even PluginGuru's Unify, since it's not hosting non Melda stuff.

MXXX is really more like the FX section of MSoundFactory.

So MXXX is more about building a super Melda FX device. And since it stays in the same ecosystem, I was thinking more in terms of Reaktor or the Reason Rack.

The Melda ecosystem advantage (for the right kind of user) is that it's high quality, high performance, very stable, highly consistent, extremely feature rich, very good VST3 implementation, early native on Apple Silicon and the randomization feature is a very cool secret sauce. A couple of times when I needed support, it was absolutely stellar.

While MSoundFactory comes with quite a few pre-built "instruments", but many of them strike me almost more as living tutorials, than necessarily as polished patch collections for preset surfing. Kind of similar with MXXX.

If the 3rd party features fully mature, and if they ever attract some of the better sound design talent, the Melda preset landscape may look a lot more polished in a few years.

In the meantime I quite enjoy it for hitting my current tinkering and experimentation sweetspot and the fact that it's not inviting to everyone sometimes almost feels like a feature.

EDIT: Guitar Rig and quite a few others (that I don't have) are also probably more comparable to MXXX as being closed ecosystem FX chainers.


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## Pier (Jul 22, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> MXXX is really more like the FX section of MSoundFactory.


It's pretty amazing that MSF costs $300 and MXXX costs $1,000 with less functionality and AFAIK it doesn't have a free player. What's the logic here? 🤔



Nico5 said:


> If the 3rd party features fully mature, and if they ever attract some of the better sound design talent, the Melda preset landscape may look a lot more polished in a few years.


Yeah absolutely.

If Melda was able to add a more user friendly preset browser with features like searching, tags, descriptions, images, etc, they would certainly boost the third party ecosystem.

My hunch is the majority of users of popular synths like Omnisphere, Zebra, Pigments, etc, are either preset surfers or just tweak something here and there.

Edit:

In fact, this is what I've been discussing here with @Chandler









KVR Forum: Best workflow for creating MSF instruments? - MeldaProduction Forum


KVR Audio Forum - Best workflow for creating MSF instruments? - MeldaProduction Forum




www.kvraudio.com


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 22, 2022)

Pier said:


> It's pretty amazing that MSF costs $300 and MXXX costs $1,000 with less functionality


MSF is an instrument and MXXX is an entire collection of effects that can be used on any instrument / track. I guess that’s the logic.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 22, 2022)

Not saying it’s MY logic


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## Pier (Jul 22, 2022)

To elaborate on what I said earlier about a better preset browser...

The issue is that now one can create custom UIs for devices, which is quite powerful. It's also possible to create presets for those devices, but from what I've gathered at KVR, these device presets are more like variations of the device macros/settings (or multi parameters as they are called in Melda lingo).

But creating devices, custom UIs, etc, takes a lot of time. In other synths (Omni, Zebra, etc) we can just make a preset, configure a couple of XYs/macros and done. This can also be done in MSF with global presets (I think they are called). The issue is how users navigate these global presets with a barebones file browser.

The time I've spent with MSF has been fantastic in terms of sound design, but unless Melda improves the experience of browsing presets, sadly, I don't think I will invest time into releasing a library for MSF. Other than maybe creating a couple of devices I have in mind (like a Subwoofer booms generator and stuff like that).


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jul 22, 2022)

Pier said:


> To elaborate on what I said earlier about a better preset browser...
> 
> The issue is that now one can create custom UIs for devices, which is quite powerful. It's also possible to create presets for those devices, but from what I've gathered at KVR, these device presets are more like variations of the device macros/settings (or multi parameters as they are called in Melda lingo).
> 
> ...


It's like the Dark Ages for hybrid synths! 

By which I mean that Engine II doesn't have a good browser, either.


----------



## sostenuto (Jul 22, 2022)

After many years using large range of mixed FX _ usually not top-tier commercial _ not so comfortable choosing a _single source_, moving forward.

Current mainstreams are Plugin Alliance, NI K13U CE, Waves. Asking _ as Waves (wup) being discussed critically right now, and considering a serious move. 
Melda free content used /updated routinely _ not yet pushing others aside. 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 22, 2022)

Pier said:


> To elaborate on what I said earlier about a better preset browser...
> 
> The issue is that now one can create custom UIs for devices, which is quite powerful. It's also possible to create presets for those devices, but from what I've gathered at KVR, these device presets are more like variations of the device macros/settings (or multi parameters as they are called in Melda lingo).
> 
> ...


I think the way Simon Stockhausen has released his MSF collection is the only “viable” way. @Sampleconstruct 

Even though I also think he released his even before the custom UI design / device was introduced, I think he would still have stuck to his original ideas. I bought that library some time ago, and like always it had taught me a lot.

I also agree with you Pier, that releasing third party libraries for MSF does not seem particularly attractive, both in terms of hassle and in terms of prodpective revenue.


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 22, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> After many years using large range of mixed FX _ usually not top-tier commercial _ not so comfortable choosing a _single source_, moving forward.
> 
> Current mainstreams are Plugin Alliance, NI K13U CE, Waves. Asking _ as Waves (wup) being discussed critically right now, and considering a serious move.
> Melda free content used /updated routinely _ not yet pushing others aside. 🤷🏻‍♂️


Why would you want to pick a single source? I did get the MCompleteBundle because on sale it was actually cheaper than MXXX’s regular price. But I also still use Denise, BABY Audio, lots of Waves and of course Plugin Alliance, Sonible, LiquidSonic etc. 

That said: for a single source I think I’d go with PA. Although I would dearly miss a couple of Waves and Melda plugins.


----------



## Pier (Jul 22, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Melda free content used /updated routinely, yet not yet pushing others aside. 🤷🏻‍♂️


Yeah the Melda model is great and their DSP is top tier. Seriously surprised it took me so long to get into their stuff.

MSF, TurboReverb, TurboDelay, and TurboAmp are some of the best plugins in their category. And these are the ones I know about... Melda has so much stuff.


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 22, 2022)

Pier said:


> Yeah the Melda model is great and their DSP is top tier. Seriously surprised it took me so long to get into their stuff.
> 
> MSF, TurboReverb, TurboDelay, and TurboAmp are some of the best plugins in their category. And these are the ones I know about... Melda has so much stuff.


Their dynamic EQ stuff is brilliant as well. And the weirder stuff is where it’s at. MMorph for instance. And MSuperLooper, as an alternative composing tool almost, is also great fun.


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 22, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> And the weirder stuff is where it’s at. MMorph for instance.


Speak of the devil


----------



## sostenuto (Jul 22, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Why would you want to pick a single source? I did get the MCompleteBundle because on sale it was actually cheaper than MXXX’s regular price. But I also still use Denise, BABY Audio, lots of Waves and of course Plugin Alliance, Sonible, LiquidSonic etc.
> 
> That said: for a single source I think I’d go with PA. Although I would dearly miss a couple of Waves and Melda plugins.


My bad choice of terms 😳 _ yet reacting to Melda as a choice to commit to much of their content ? _ 'Time to Jump on the Melda Express'
Surely using fairly consistent UI should be beneficial _ albeit criticized by some / many? 
Very recent 'alliance' of PA /NI may bring some coherence over time.


----------



## Pier (Jul 22, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Speak of the devil








Edit:

Even more impressive is the fact that this is a video from 2016.


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 22, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> My bad choice of terms 😳 _ yet reacting to Melda as a choice to commit to much of their content ? _ 'Time to Jump on the Melda Express'


Here on VI-C we only jump on ADDITIONAL trains. We never leave our prior trains. Try to remember that!


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 22, 2022)

Pier said:


>


----------



## Nico5 (Jul 22, 2022)

Pier said:


> It's pretty amazing that MSF costs $300 and MXXX costs $1,000 with less functionality and AFAIK it doesn't have a free player. What's the logic here? 🤔





doctoremmet said:


> MSF is an instrument and MXXX is an entire collection of effects that can be used on any instrument / track. I guess that’s the logic.


Yes, the good doctor has it right. MXXX is an FX plugin, while MSF is an instrument plugin. 

So you can use MXXX as inserts on audio tracks and in effects and mixing busses, but MSF can only use its own oscillators. And since MXXX is effectively a bundle of standalone Melda FX plugins, it's priced accordingly.

Of course you could do like so many Reason users did so many years ago, before Reason added audio tracks: Make your entire piece into an MSF synth by sampling every piece of audio and having MSF play it via it's sample player.


----------



## Pier (Jul 22, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


>


I have no idea what you're trying to say here 😂



Nico5 said:


> And since MXXX is effectively a bundle of standalone Melda FX plugins, it's priced accordingly.


Ah ok that makes more sense!


----------



## sostenuto (Jul 22, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Why would you want to pick a single source? I did get the MCompleteBundle because on sale it was actually cheaper than MXXX’s regular price. But I also still use Denise, BABY Audio, lots of Waves and of course Plugin Alliance, Sonible, LiquidSonic etc.
> 
> That said: for a single source I think I’d go with PA. Although I would dearly miss a couple of Waves and Melda plugins.



.......... in this context, perhaps good move will be adding the 'weirder stuff' and expanding from there.


----------



## Technostica (Jul 22, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> .......... in this context, perhaps good move will be adding the 'weirder stuff' and expanding from there.


I bought the Creative Bundle and am pleased with it.
If you wait until it’s 60% off and also use a referral code, it goes below $200.
They have also added to the bundle since I bought it.
It packages their weirder stuff into a bundle:









MCreativeFXBundle


The most powerful creative effects set in the world



www.meldaproduction.com


----------



## Nico5 (Jul 22, 2022)

Pier said:


> But creating devices, custom UIs, etc, takes a lot of time. In other synths (Omni, Zebra, etc) we can just make a preset, configure a couple of XYs/macros and done.


That's why I hesitate to simply group MSF with those other synths, and think of it more like a modular (Reaktor, Reason Rack, Hyperion, ...)


Pier said:


> This can also be done in MSF with global presets (I think they are called). The issue is how users navigate these global presets with a barebones file browser.


Fair critique I'd say - todate the presets are a very simple folder hierarchy like the rest of Melda. Also quite a bit of the factory preset naming appears random generated, rather than giving additional hints to the nature of the sound. I think of many of the current MSF factory instruments and presets still more as living tutorials than as patches I would use readymade.


----------



## Pier (Jul 22, 2022)

Technostica said:


> I bought the Creative Bundle and am pleased with it.
> If you wait until it’s 60% off and also use a referral code, it goes below $200.
> They have also added to the bundle since I bought it.
> It packages their weirder stuff into a bundle:
> ...


I will definitely get it on the next sale!


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 22, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> .......... in this context, perhaps good move will be adding the 'weirder stuff' and expanding from there.


Look, if you need great mixing and mastering effects, I seriously quite like the PA stuff. Get one of their many bx channelstrips, get a couple of great EQs (Soma, Maag), get a set of awesome compressors (that new U17 seems cool, I am partial to the NEOLD ones anyway), saturators (Black Box, Phil’s Cascade). For sounddesign, basically get BYOME or the multiband version of it (TRIAD).

Then, get Melda stuff like MMorph, MPhatik, MRythmizerMB etc. for the fun bits. Just as an example.


----------



## Technostica (Jul 22, 2022)

Pier said:


> I will definitely get it on the next sale!


Worth considering MXXXCore also.
With hindsight, I probably would have bought it when I bought the bundle as that’s a good tool to add.









MXXXCore


An affordable way to get MXXX



www.meldaproduction.com


----------



## Pier (Jul 22, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> That's why I hesitate to simply group MSF with those other synths, and think of it more like a modular (Reaktor, Reason Rack, Hyperion, ...)


You know, that makes a lot of sense.

In fact now that I think of it, one of the reasons I've always hated using Reaktor devices is how the presets are managed. You get those super nice UIs but the whole presets/ensembles/samples/etc management and browsing is just bad.

If NI re-released all these Reaktor instruments as standalone versions (like Massive X) with a proper preset browser it could be a huge hit.


----------



## sostenuto (Jul 22, 2022)

Technostica said:


> I bought the Creative Bundle and am pleased with it.
> If you wait until it’s 60% off and also use a referral code, it goes below $200.
> They have also added to the bundle since I bought it.
> It packages their weirder stuff into a bundle:
> ...


Seems st


Technostica said:


> Worth considering MXXXCore also.
> With hindsight, I probably would have bought it when I bought the bundle as that’s a good tool to add.
> 
> 
> ...


Will track Sales _ for Creative Bundle _ downloaded demo now.
Core seems strong choice here _ getting started. 
Just saw Plugin Boutique has MAuto DynamicEQ for $54. right now. 
👍🏻


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 22, 2022)

Note that you can only use a referral code on your first ever Melda purchase. After that, it's too late. So don't hold off using it until some imagined future time when you'll buy a big bundle. If you are more likely to pick them up piecemeal, just use the referral code on whatever you buy first.

Having said that, I stopped buying Melda plugins due to the thought of saving more money on some imagined future bundle purchase. But don't follow my example!


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## Technostica (Jul 22, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Seems st
> 
> Will track Sales _ for Creative Bundle _ downloaded demo now.
> Core seems strong choice here _ getting started.
> ...


It might have been BF when I bought it.
For your first order, you can stack a referral code, as well as a code for signing up to the newsletter, on top of the sale prices.
I think you can only use the referral code that time, so fill yer boots.
That’s another 20% off.


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## Nico5 (Jul 22, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Having said that, I stopped buying Melda plugins due to the thought of saving more money on some imagined future bundle purchase. But don't follow my example!


When buying from Melda directly there's also effectively an upgrade path from individual plugins to bundles or from smaller bundles to bigger bundles.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 22, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> When buying from Melda directly there's also effectively an upgrade path from individual plugins to bundles or from smaller bundles to bigger bundles.


Yes, that's true, good point. I haven't worked out if that would leave the savings the same if you buy a few plugins in sales and then upgrade to a bundle or just by the bundle on sale. It may be that there is no need to wait at all as far as that goes.


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## Nico5 (Jul 22, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Very recent 'alliance' of PA /NI may bring some coherence over time.


I do admire your optimism! 

Given how much of a struggle it is to modernize UIs for venerable plugins even just within the NI ecosystem, I'm not very optimistic on old UIs morphing into new one's. 

I suspect the major driving force of the NI, iZotope, PA merger is more the consolidation and resulting cost savings of management positions and all of the non technical departments (marketing, sales, accounting, ...)


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## Technostica (Jul 23, 2022)

To give people an idea, I checked my payment and I paid £182 for these two as a new customer about 16 months ago:

MeldaProduction MCreativeFXBundle
MeldaProduction MFreeFXBundle (The paid for Upgrade)

Currently they list for £594 together.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 23, 2022)

Have you found the upgrade to the MFreeFXBundle worth it? I'd like to get oversampling feature on them.


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## Technostica (Jul 23, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Have you found the upgrade to the MFreeFXBundle worth it? I'd like to get oversampling feature on them.


I didn't use the free version so I can't comment on the differences.

I haven't used that bundle much as my rational was that it was worth buying as it used the same GUI as MCreativeFXBundle.
I figured that once I am exposed to the GUI on the Creative Bundle, that it made sense to use the Free bundle due to familiarity.
I'm sure I will get enough use out of it for the £13 or so I paid.
It also means I have a bunch of tools/utilities that will all get updated together in one go.
For people that have already chosen a bunch of such tools it maybe isn't worth the £13.
But for me, I was choosing to focus on one or two developers, to have a good range of expansive tools, plus the bread and butter stuff.
I sold Waves Gold and some other stuff and refocussed.

MCreativeFXBundle I find inspiring.
That hasn't stopped me from picking up some complimentary effects from PA; plus some synths of course, a recent focus.
I'm a sucka for a deal on interesting effects.
Your voucher helped me add a few more for a net zero.  
I try to run a Net Zero GAS policy.


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## sostenuto (Jul 23, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Yes, that's true, good point. I haven't worked out if that would leave the savings the same if you buy a few plugins in sales and then upgrade to a bundle or just by the bundle on sale. It may be that there is no need to wait at all as far as that goes.


Uncertain about this as well, and delaying decisions on current sale items. sorry _ easily confused. 😳
_MDynamic and MAutoDynamicEQ (Plugin Boutique) now on sale _ but also in planned Bundle purchase._


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 23, 2022)

Technostica said:


> I didn't use the free version so I can't comment on the differences.
> 
> I haven't used that bundle much as my rational was that it was worth buying as it used the same GUI as MCreativeFXBundle.
> I figured that once I am exposed to the GUI on the Creative Bundle, that it made sense to use the Free bundle due to familiarity.
> ...


Hmm. I try not buy anything and then things happen. I have benefited from a kind present of a gift card recently. I've also done some beta stuff, which has led to some new products. So I can't complain for new toys!

I went through a phase of buying pretty much only creative effects - and there are plenty left that I want, including new release's like Sound Particle's Density. But then I focused on getting a good mixing and mastering set-up, which I'm now pretty happy with.

Now I'm working on my skills and planning planning a synth heavy larger project. Once that is done, then I'm allowed to buy things again. Not that I've stopped; I'm just not currently allowed to. In time, I want to expand my Melda plugins as, like you, I find it helpful to get familiar with a single approach across a range of effects; plus the quality of the sound is consistently excellent or better.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 23, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Uncertain about this as well, and delaying decisions on current sale items. sorry _ easily confused. 😳
> _MDynamic and MAutoDynamicEQ (Plugin Boutique) now on sale _ but also in planned Bundle purchase._


I think maybe a good rule of thumb is that 50% off comes around at least one a year on everything (usually twice, I think). So, unless you are in a hurry - which is completely reasonable - it could be good to wait for more than 50% off to buy individual plugins.

But really, that's just what I'm doing. I think that if you are serious about using the plugin, and it is 50% off (or close to that), then go ahead and buy it. And if you aren't serious about using it - don't buy it at all!


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## sostenuto (Jul 23, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I think maybe a good rule of thumb is that 50% off comes around at least one a year on everything (usually twice, I think). So, unless you are in a hurry - which is completely reasonable - it could be good to wait for more than 50% off to buy individual plugins.
> 
> But really, that's just what I'm doing. I think that if you are serious about using the plugin, and it is 50% off (or close to that), then go ahead and buy it. And if you aren't serious about using it - don't buy it at all!


Leaning to Upgrade latest Free Version _ 15.02 _ for $40. (with Code). 
Wonder if the Upgrade then carries over as each new version is released ?


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## Technostica (Jul 23, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Leaning to Upgrade latest Free Version _ 15.02 _ for $40. (with Code).
> Wonder if the Upgrade then carries over as each new version is released ?


All updates are free, for life and they add new plugins to bundles, even possibly to the free bundle.


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## sostenuto (Jul 23, 2022)

Technostica said:


> All updates are free, for life and they add new plugins to bundles, even possibly to the free bundle.


THX ! Paid Upgrade, albeit small cost, tests commitment to 'jump on Melda Express' rather than procrastinate further with Free FX. 
Habits tough to change _ as still adding PA 'deals' when desirable ones arise. Neold - Big Al 2 days ago.

Have at least backed away from additional Waves, although issues, with many from V9 onward, not solved as easily as some advise. 

Mantra:
Melda is good ! Melda is good ! Melda is good !  Medla is good !


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## Technostica (Jul 24, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Hmm. I try not buy anything and then things happen. I have benefited from a kind present of a gift card recently. I've also done some beta stuff, which has led to some new products. So I can't complain for new toys!
> 
> I went through a phase of buying pretty much only creative effects - and there are plenty left that I want, including new release's like Sound Particle's Density. But then I focused on getting a good mixing and mastering set-up, which I'm now pretty happy with.
> 
> Now I'm working on my skills and planning planning a synth heavy larger project. Once that is done, then I'm allowed to buy things again. Not that I've stopped; I'm just not currently allowed to. In time, I want to expand my Melda plugins as, like you, I find it helpful to get familiar with a single approach across a range of effects; plus the quality of the sound is consistently excellent or better.


My impulse control is much better now but I do still get caught up with the joy of the chase at times.
If an interesting VST flirts with me by lifting up a hemline to expose a sale tag, I might well rise to the bait, especially if she's drinking glitchazade. 
But I do keep a close eye on the overall expenditure, hence my Net Zero GAS policy.

I'm moving from Maschine to Ableton for loop stuff which also means Reaper gets less of a look-in.
I sold my Maschine Mk3 with K13 for a good price and picked up Live Suite and a few Novation controllers along with K13 Ultimate for the same price.
If I was as good at producing music as I am at buying and selling my gear, I'd probably have a Grammy nomination by now. 
I have already chosen the bathrobe to wear to the ceremony just in case. It will match my blinged out Zimmer frame.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 24, 2022)

Technostica said:


> My impulse control is much better now but I do still get caught up with the joy of the chase at times.
> If an interesting VST flirts with me by lifting up a hemline to expose a sale tag, I might well rise to the bait, especially if she's drinking glitchazade.
> But I do keep a close eye on the overall expenditure, hence my Net Zero GAS policy.
> 
> ...


Oh, darling, it's all about the slippers!


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## Technostica (Jul 24, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Oh, darling, it's all about the slippers!


Damn, the Grammy's have banned crocs so that's another dream dashed.


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## sostenuto (Jul 24, 2022)

Global audience - real loser - if missing titillating robe on display ! 💔


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## GusGranite (Jul 24, 2022)

Nice overview of the amazing Melda compressors.


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## Akoustecx (Aug 15, 2022)

For those wondering about how individual Melda purchases affect future bundle pricing, 70% of what you paid for that plugin is knocked off any bundle that contains it. If it's bought through a 3rd party, Melda assume you paid 50% of the list price of that plugin, so a £100 list plugin will net you a £35 discount. This means that any discount at a greater level than 65% leaves you in "profit", albeit for a pretty well plunkified definition of profit.
It's also worth noting that there is no upgrade path from LE versions aquired in a bundle, to the full individual product. ie, I had to buy a full license for MSpectralDynamics, even though the LE version is included in the Essentials bundle, which I already owned.
As for whether the OP and others should jump on the Melda Express, I cannot speak for the Instruments, but their effects are universally superb and I could not live without MADEQ, MBassador, MRotary, MSaturatorMB, MSpectralDynamics or, apparently, MHyperbole!
Regarding the static surrounding the UX, I would far rather a clinically utilitarian GUI on a well realised plugin, than a beautiful one on something that sounded meh. Yes, it does mean that there is a steeper learning curve than one might expect for any given plugin, but that knowledge then extends to all their other products, meaning it doesn't take long before you can concentrate on the plugins functionality, rather than how to interact with it.
Given that there is an unrestricted 14 day demo period, my advice would be to pick a few of Meldas versions of things you already use, and then see if you can fit them into the way you work, all without any risk to yourself, beyond losing a couple of hours that would have been spent in your DAW anyway.


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## Superabbit (Nov 7, 2022)

Okay, to answer the OP's question, yes, if you're going to jump on the Melda Express, now *is* the time.

Meldaproduction Black Friday 50% off everything sale.

First-time Melda customers be sure to use a referral code (mine is *MELDA1923165*, but anyone's will do) to get 20% off your first order. And sign up for their newsletter to get a flat €10 credit.

By stacking all the discounts, a first-time buyer can upgrade their FreeFX bundle to "pro" for about €10.

For veterans, check your My Account page to see what kind of prices you'll get on upgrades.


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## wtptrs (Nov 7, 2022)

I'm looking at MDrummer for €90, using the newsletter credits and referral code.

If I understand correctly, although a lot of MDrummer functionality is included in MSoundfactory, only the MDrummer standalone plugin lets you export rhythms generated in MDrummer to MIDI, so you can use them with third-party kits from Superior Drummer, MODO DRUM etc.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken.


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## Superabbit (Nov 7, 2022)

wtptrs said:


> If I understand correctly, although a lot of MDrummer functionality is included in MSoundfactory, only the MDrummer standalone plugin lets you export rhythms generated in MDrummer to MIDI, so you can use them with third-party kits from Superior Drummer, MODO DRUM etc.
> 
> Please correct me if I'm mistaken.


Where are you getting your information from regarding MDrummer "functionality" being included in MSoundFactory?

According to Melda's ad copy regarding MDrummer's relationship to MSoundFactory, "....you can.... use all of its great drum samplers and synthesizers inside the Generator modular environment. Creating both acoustic and electronic drums inside your sounds have never been easier." Notice there's no mention of anything but sampling and synthesizing. No mention of beat making or sequencing.

It also says "You can....put MDrummer inside MSoundFactory's FX section." I'm not sure why one would want to have a drum plug-in "inside" the FX section of one's synthesizer, but it suggests to me that one would need to own the drum plug-in in order to be able to do so.

If you want to make beats and play drum sounds, that's what MDrummer is for.

MSoundFactory is just what its name says, a tool for making _sounds_. There's no built-in sequencer, only an arpeggiator. In my MSoundfactoryLE instruments browser, there are two (Simonns Drums -_sic _ and Dream Machines) that call themselves "drum kits," and they're limited to only 6 sounds each, with no facilities for pattern programming.

Hope this helps clear the waters....


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## doctoremmet (Nov 7, 2022)

Superabbit said:


> Where are you getting your information from regarding MDrummer "functionality" being included in MSoundFactory?
> 
> According to Melda's ad copy regarding MDrummer's relationship to MSoundFactory, "....you can.... use all of its great drum samplers and synthesizers inside the Generator modular environment. Creating both acoustic and electronic drums inside your sounds have never been easier." Notice there's no mention of anything but sampling and synthesizing. No mention of beat making or sequencing.
> 
> ...


Read posts #11 and onwards in this very thread


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## Superabbit (Nov 7, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Read posts #11 and onwards in this very thread


Ai yi yi is that ever confusing. I _still_ don't know for sure whether the full version comes with MDrummer's beat programming functionality or just the sound generators.

And the factory response. It's as if someone asked NI if Komplete Kontrol includes Massive and they replied that you can use Massive with Komplete Kontrol.

Vojtech is a genius programmer and IMO, marketer, in the way that his FreeFX Bundle pioneered that level of loss leader/giveaway. They're not "lite" versions, but rather MCompressor and MEQualizer are, IMO, a couple of best in their class processors; if they listed for $50 each at Meldaproduction they would be worth it.

However, that kind of genius doesn't always come with genius at explaining things verbally. I've railed about this on the Meldaproduction forum many times and gotten nothing but agreement (except from Vojtech himself), even from the hardcore Meldamoonies: most of my collection of 74 Meldaproduction plug-ins feel like an alien device landed in my yard, and while its basic function (let's say photographing and projecting moving holograms) is accessible, it has about 100 other knobs and buttons that I can't figure out. So I'm happy to have the alien device, but there's the nagging feeling that it can do way more than I'm able to figure out.

I should have added the caveat about my personal experience being with MSoundFactoryLE. There ain't no MDrummer to be found there.

What I can say to the earlier poster after re-reading this entire thread is that IF a fully functional MDrummer is available inside the full version of MSF without also owning a license for MDrummer itself (which I'm _still_ not sure about), I did some experimenting in Cakewalk and got MSoundFactory to transmit MIDI from the arpeggiator. So if your DAW supports this (and it should), you would be able to call up the patterns and beats from MDrummer-in-MSoundFactory, play them, and record the output to a MIDI track for use elsewhere.

But I still don't have a damn clue whether you need a license for MDrummer to have access to it in the full version of MSoundFactory. So I guess I muddied the waters further, and I must apologize.

If MDrummer's beat making function _is_ included inside MSoundFactory, I find it odd that there are no fully-functional drum machines in MSoundFactoryLE. The "drum machines" that are included are lamesville. I can't even call them "drum machines" without the irony quotes. But then "finding it odd" is sometimes part of the Meldaproduction experience as one approaches the upper tiers....


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## wtptrs (Nov 8, 2022)

Thanks for the info @Superabbit !

I installed trials for both MDrummer and MSoundfactory. They look interesting but I experienced 3 or 4 crashes (Macbook Air M2 2022) in maybe 20 minutes. It could very well be an issue on my side, but I'll skip this sale, maybe in the future I'll try them again.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 8, 2022)

wtptrs said:


> Thanks for the info @Superabbit !
> 
> I installed trials for both MDrummer and MSoundfactory. They look interesting but I experienced 3 or 4 crashes (Macbook Air M2 2022) in maybe 20 minutes. It could very well be an issue on my side, but I'll skip this sale, maybe in the future I'll try them again.


I don't think I've ever had a crash with MSoundFactory; but if I turn the oversampling too high, it refuses to play, of course. It may be something with your system; I don't know if any others have had trouble.

I'm using Studio One 5 on an i5 PC.


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## wtptrs (Nov 8, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I don't think I've ever had a crash with MSoundFactory; but if I turn the oversampling too high, it refuses to play, of course. It may be something with your system; I don't know if any others have had trouble.
> 
> I'm using Studio One 5 on an i5 PC.


That's good to know! I'm looking to move from Apple to PC and to Studio One 6 in the coming weeks, so I'll try it out after I'm settled.


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## Superabbit (Nov 8, 2022)

wtptrs said:


> They look interesting but I experienced 3 or 4 crashes (Macbook Air M2 2022) in maybe 20 minutes.


MSoundFactory seems to like to play Poof The DAW if you browse/audition too many patches in a row. I think I saw it in their "what's new" list for either 16.0 or 16.01. Bad achilles' heel to have, because that's the first thing people do with a new synth. It used to be worse; it's gotten better.


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## wtptrs (Nov 8, 2022)

Superabbit said:


> MSoundFactory seems to like to play Poof The DAW if you browse/audition too many patches in a row. I think I saw it in their "what's new" list for either 16.0 or 16.01. Bad achilles' heel to have, because that's the first thing people do with a new synth. It used to be worse; it's gotten better.


Ah that was exactly what I was doing, quickly browsing patches and trying out the patch randomization. Thanks for letting me know, I'll keep it in mind.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 8, 2022)

wtptrs said:


> Ah that was exactly what I was doing, quickly browsing patches and trying out the patch randomization. Thanks for letting me know, I'll keep it in mind.


That also explains why I haven't experienced it as the first thing I tried out was loading samples!


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## Fleer (Nov 9, 2022)

Don’t forget about loading that amazing (free) 40GB Meldway Grand into your MSF and try the Creative patches while you’re at it.


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## elucid (Nov 9, 2022)

Superabbit said:


> Ai yi yi is that ever confusing. I _still_ don't know for sure whether the full version comes with MDrummer's beat programming functionality or just the sound generators.
> 
> And the factory response. It's as if someone asked NI if Komplete Kontrol includes Massive and they replied that you can use Massive with Komplete Kontrol.
> 
> ...


It _is_ there inside MSF - the full MDrummer capability. It's just in an incredibly weird place.

Go to Edit mode. Click the FX tab. Click in a cell in the Modular grid. Go to the Synthesis section. Click MDrummer.

AFAIK it's all there - just like if you had bought MDrummer (I haven't but I have full MSF).


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## Superabbit (Nov 10, 2022)

elucid said:


> It _is_ there inside MSF - the full MDrummer capability. It's just in an incredibly weird place.
> 
> Go to Edit mode. Click the FX tab. Click in a cell in the Modular grid. Go to the Synthesis section. Click MDrummer.
> 
> AFAIK it's all there - just like if you had bought MDrummer (I haven't but I have full MSF).


Thank you so much for clarifying this! I apologize again for my part in further muddying the waters. I read all of the previous posts and it seemed like everyone either owned both of them, or were possibly running MDrummer on a trial license. To my confused mind, anyway.

So the definitive answer is that if you own a full license for MSoundFactory, you don't need a separate license for (or apparently installation of) MDrummer. You can run it from the FX section in MSF.

This still raises the question for me: since this is the case, why are the "drum machine" instruments that come with MSF (and MSFLE) so lame (all they are is 6-note soundsets presented in a fancy-looking interface)? If all the functions are there, then presumably one can build an MSF instrument that includes them. Otherwise, what's the point of including a full-featured MDrummer?

And if one _can_ build an MSF instrument using the MDrummer features, could someone _please_ do that and upload it to the Preset Exchange? 😄

The explanation I was given in the Meldaproduction forum when I asked why Dream Machines was limited to 6 slots with no choking was that MSoundfactory was limited to 6 outputs. Which sounded like a red herring to me; after all, there are many other drum machines, ROMplers, and samplers that supply full drum machine (at least MIDI triggered, which is all I want) functionality, with 12 slots and choking, and they only have single stereo outputs. _Kontakt Player_ comes with half a dozen full-on drum machines, with their own patterns and everything.

So I still challenge anyone to actually make usable beats using Dream Machines. In order to do so, you'd have to find a way around the lack of choking and the inability to play open and closed hats with separate notes.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 10, 2022)

I’m good with just owning MDrummer 😂


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 27, 2022)

And now MSoundFactory has a granular sampler as well as the existing granular effect. Which is nice.

CORRECTION: It will be part of 16.2, whenever that is released.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 27, 2022)

It IS nice.


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## b_elliott (Nov 27, 2022)

While we wait, the Chandler video reminded of the wild stuff one could already do with Iris2. 

Between that and the free Emergence Granular Delay, I believe I will have fun fking 'round. (Link given earlier by our Señor Pier.)


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## lychee (Nov 27, 2022)

Is there anything MSoundFactory can't do?
I look forward to version 16.3 for the integration of the cappuccino function.


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## jesussaddle (Dec 7, 2022)

Superabbit said:


> Ai yi yi is that ever confusing. I _still_ don't know for sure whether the full version comes with MDrummer's beat programming functionality or just the sound generators.
> 
> And the factory response. It's as if someone asked NI if Komplete Kontrol includes Massive and they replied that you can use Massive with Komplete Kontrol.
> 
> ...


I concur with this. The above may or may not be long winded but I'm going to be even longer. I bought MDrummer about 8 years ago and was pretty happy with it. He created a wonderful free add-on for it. But the difficulty with someone who can think that quickly is he sometimes forgets that no one is keeping up, so time spent trying to "reach" those being lost by the wayside is minimal.

I was just comparing Seventh Heaven to MConvolutionMB and noticed that he has apparently done quite a lot to figure out what the dev (Liquid Sonics) has done, but rather than show it off on a video, what I see is very minimal marketing for that, evidently well-reviewed product (which currently sells for $26).

Then I was thinking, maybe I can demo it. But the thing is, rather than Melda providing an individual download (presumably one that I could activate for a trial), I realized I have to fiddle with his "all plugins" downloader. Since I have the same issue with IK Multimedia I won't go into it, except to say that the product installed is called MConvolutionEZ. And I know I updated my Meldaproductions Installer within the last year, so that can't be the issue.

I was already thinking, geez, its only $26, versus Seventh Heaven Lite ($49). But Seventh Heaven has a review where the thing sounds amazing. (I know that MConvolutionMB apparently has not that many M7 modulated IR's, and includes other stuff). Melda doesn't have a quality review or demo (for reverb aficionados who are demanding, trust me :D ) That doesn't mean it can't sound great. As I said, there are written reviews from people I trust who have found it to be of quality.

Now the reason for my writing this (aside from looking for opinions on Seventh Heaven vs MConvolutionMB) is that I see MSoundFactory on sale, next to MPowerSynth. I managed to dig up (not on Melda's site, but I think on KVR) an explanation as to the differences and if one needs both. I also dug around to try and find out what's included and not included in MSoundFactory, and how this impacts the user experience. One would think that Melda would put a video specifically on that one issue, since, if you go for instance to the Kilohearts site, many pages are devoted to clearly explaining how to navigate that pricing and marketing model. (I am a fan of Phase Plant and managed to acquire everything from them on sale (except the preset banks - If I'm not mistaken, they let you subscribe, and earn money towards all your purchases while doing so).

In my opinion Melda's pricing has always been reasonable or better. I didn't buy a lot because my eyes weren't great so I couldn't handle their GUI's; but I completely get why a small company with a genius at the helm (who must do much of the important work) hasn't fully managed (IMHO) to put to use a marketing approach of understanding and catering more to ease of use for a larger base of users than currently adapt.

But I could really use an explanation of what will be included vs what will be missed in MSoundFactory (I already own MDrummer so I have the vsti outside of MSoundFactory, and I have MDynamic EQ, and MAutodynamic EQ, and was considering purchasing MConvolutionMB).

For example, I don't own any Melda reverbs. Is there ANY reverb included in MSoundFactory? (If the free stuff from Melda is inside it, then okay, but I have to dig around to get to that and it could be clearer. A "SoundFactory" seems like it requires many other plugins to be most efficient; I wasn't clear on how this related to an MPowerSynth, but I gather from KVR that all of MPowerSynth is included.


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## jesussaddle (Dec 7, 2022)

applegrovebard said:


> Doctoremmet wrote 'One could even use MSF inside MSF. It truly should be called MSoundInception.'
> 
> I'm just looking into Plugin Unify which is a vst working inside a host but is also a vst host itself- and can also host itself... Music software is sure getting meta these days.


Unify is a joy to use and the libraries I've purchased have all given me enjoyment and I think they'll prove valuable. Also, I've never had ANY issues with installation or operation. Its all worked flawlessly. Good support to.


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## Pier (Dec 7, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> I concur with this. The above may or may not be long winded but I'm going to be even longer. I bought MDrummer about 8 years ago and was pretty happy with it. He created a wonderful free add-on for it. But the difficulty with someone who can think that quickly is he sometimes forgets that no one is keeping up, so time spent trying to "reach" those being lost by the wayside is minimal.
> 
> I was just comparing Seventh Heaven to MConvolutionMB and noticed that he has apparently done quite a lot to figure out what the dev (Liquid Sonics) has done, but rather than show it off on a video, what I see is very minimal marketing for that, evidently well-reviewed product (which currently sells for $26).
> 
> ...


Everything from Melda is included in MSF but it can only be used inside MSF.


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## jesussaddle (Dec 7, 2022)

Pier said:


> Everything from Melda is included in MSF but it can only be used inside MSF.


Ah, so MTurbo Reverb IS included, but you can't send signal from elsewhere in your DAW unless you record it and import that as a sample inside MSF?


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## Pier (Dec 7, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> Ah, so MTurbo Reverb IS included, but you can't send signal from elsewhere in your DAW unless you record it and import that as a sample inside MSF?


I don't know for sure but yeah I imagine MSF doesn't have an audio input. Otherwise you could use it instead of MXXX which is much more expensive.


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## jesussaddle (Dec 7, 2022)

Pier said:


> I don't know for sure but yeah I imagine MSF doesn't have an audio input. Otherwise you could use it instead of MXXX which is much more expensive.


I sort of get its price point as a sound design unit. There is a lot of potential - probably best suited to a person focused on sound design. Hopefully the example instruments in it will get polish. For me personally, an hour long video exploration of one of its tools (say the pad instrument, and a user expansion of that capability) with a worthwhile goal and target achievecd would be a big help to have a better understanding. The shorter videos are suiting to MDrummer, but tend to make the opportunities in MSoundFactory look more limited than they are.


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## elucid (Dec 7, 2022)

lychee said:


> Is there anything MSoundFactory can't do?
> I look forward to version 16.3 for the integration of the cappuccino function.


I’m pretty sure that functionality is already there. I found it once in a menu but I’ve never found my way back to that menu again so I can’t swear to it. 

It’s a bit like MDrummer. You know it’s in there somewhere because you found it once but now you have to decide if it’s worth the time trying to find it again.


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## jesussaddle (Dec 8, 2022)

I really like MConvolutionMB. The only thing it seems to miss that right away I wish it had is a ducker.

What I'm curious about is if any of Melda's reverbs have Duckers. I'm thinking of just buying MConvolution to be a good sport, but Ducker's and reverbs go together in my mind. I'm not quite there with buying MSoundFactory but I'm warming to it. (I suppose I could stop being lazy and use a send with a compressor before the reverb to duck it when the signal is present.)


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## averystemmler (Dec 8, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> I really like MConvolutionMB. The only thing it seems to miss that right away I wish it had is a ducker.
> 
> What I'm curious about is if any of Melda's reverbs have Duckers. I'm thinking of just buying MConvolution to be a good sport, but Ducker's and reverbs go together in my mind. I'm not quite there with buying MSoundFactory but I'm warming to it. (I suppose I could stop being lazy and use a send with a compressor before the reverb to duck it when the signal is present.)


I'm not at my PC right now to give you precise instructions, but check out the modulation slots (they're in one of those expandable right-hand bars). I think you should be able to set up a "Detector" that reads the input signal, and then tie it to the output or wet/dry controls. Most Melda plugins can actually integrate a compressor of sorts this way.


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## b_elliott (Dec 8, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> I'm not quite there with buying MSoundFactory but I'm warming to it. (I suppose I could stop being lazy and use a send with a compressor before the reverb to duck it when the signal is present.)


Now that sounds quite curious 'n quacky. 



Must hop off now,
B.


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## Superabbit (Dec 8, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> I don't own any Melda reverbs.


I am one of those who is very particular about reverb. I often say that if I had to, I could mix just fine with stock and/or free FX...._except for reverb_. When I listen to a mix and swap reverbs in and out, it makes SO much audible (to me) difference. Put on a great reverb, things sound more real, put on a lesser one, things sound....like you added reverb to them.

Which can be fine, but if I'm going to _drench_ things like I'm trying to sound like Cocteau Twins or The Chantays, there are good ones for that, too.

If I had tried MTurboREverble before I heard Exponential Phoenix, I might have stopped there, but I didn't. When iZotope first put Phoenix on sale for $10, I tried it and it sounded SO much better than what I had been using (the well-regarded free Oril River) that I immediately bought another license for it and another pair for R2.

MTurboReverble can do what they do (and more, weirder things) and unlike the Exponential ones, you can use it on as many systems as you use. I also have a license for MReverb/MReverbMB but it doesn't see much use. It just doesn't sound as good. I guess Vojtech hadn't _quite_ perfected the algorithms.


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## Akoustecx (Dec 8, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> The only thing it seems to miss that right away I wish it had is a ducker.


@averystemmler is right, at least as far as MReverbMB is concerned, and I very much doubt that MConvolutionMB will be any different.
Set a Follower to control Wet/Dry, invert it and then set Max to your desired W/D mix with Value as your maximally ducked W/D mix.


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## jesussaddle (Dec 8, 2022)

averystemmler said:


> I'm not at my PC right now to give you precise instructions, but check out the modulation slots (they're in one of those expandable right-hand bars). I think you should be able to set up a "Detector" that reads the input signal, and then tie it to the output or wet/dry controls. Most Melda plugins can actually integrate a compressor of sorts this way.


Pretty cool!


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## jesussaddle (Dec 8, 2022)

Superabbit said:


> I am one of those who is very particular about reverb. I often say that if I had to, I could mix just fine with stock and/or free FX...._except for reverb_. When I listen to a mix and swap reverbs in and out, it makes SO much audible (to me) difference. Put on a great reverb, things sound more real, put on a lesser one, things sound....like you added reverb to them.
> 
> Which can be fine, but if I'm going to _drench_ things like I'm trying to sound like Cocteau Twins or The Chantays, there are good ones for that, too.
> 
> ...


I do think his MConvolutionMB has the sound of quality. I also own the iZotope reverbs - recently tried to get interested more in their interface. I don't recall Phoenix being one, but I have 2. Nimbus and R2. I think Nimbus was an advancement on Phoenix reverb but I'm not sure. 

At this point I may consider buying MSoundFactory on sale - but the 2 things I am interested in knowing are whether it has an interface in there to deal with time stretching and/or looping. I'm pretty sure I'll buy MConvolutionMB and possibly his delay.


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## jesussaddle (Dec 8, 2022)

b_elliott said:


> Now that sounds quite curious 'n quacky.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I apologize in advance for presuming I'm about to inform you - but I wasn't clear - If I understand, you mean regarding the use of ducking compression on reverb - In my mind I believe splitting the dry signal and applying compression on the wet path is essentially the signal chain built right into Seventh Heaven Pro, but I don't think there's a ducker included in their "Cinematic Rooms Pro" by comparison [NOTE: actually there is a ducker - I didn't see that part of the many paragraph description] - because its more of a pop thing - and I guess the uses of an M7 included pop music (Seventh Heaven is modeled on that). In pop one often seeks to maximize every rhythm instrument to keep this motion clearly above all the collisions, being that its such a different rhythmic form of music than classical. In it there's so much sidechaining and EQ chores (and now the new breed of processors like Soothe2 and Gullfoss & MSpectralDynamics). Basically in pop music the reverb and room ambience are not just enhancers but are very overcrowding to the "intent" of the music, which is a clear forward moving pulse. In Pianoteq there's no ducker for the reverb - and that makes sense since solo pianists rather than mixing engineers, will probably be a large part of its user base. In a more pop-related, mixing engineer-related product like Crystalline by Baby Audio, there's not just a ducker, but a "sync'd pre-delay time" to help the music dodge the reverb in a manner that's rhythmically congruent with the pulse of the track.


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## jesussaddle (Dec 8, 2022)

averystemmler said:


> I'm not at my PC right now to give you precise instructions, but check out the modulation slots (they're in one of those expandable right-hand bars). I think you should be able to set up a "Detector" that reads the input signal, and then tie it to the output or wet/dry controls. Most Melda plugins can actually integrate a compressor of sorts this way.


Under Edit (the advanced section) there's the toolbar collapsed menu and the Multi-Parameters collapsed menu. I expanded the latter and now I see where I would think one could do this (it separates into "global" and "reverb". But I haven't been able to figure out how to add a detector. I see Chandler did a vid about detectors in the Melda dynamics processors, and also in MTurboReverb (which has a dynamics section in the advanced page.) I don't see this in MConvolutionMB yet. Hopefully someone will show me where it is - I posted a comment on his videos.


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## Akoustecx (Dec 8, 2022)

@jesussaddle There should be a Meters & Utilities tab. Utilities contains 4 Mod tabs that open a configurable popup.


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## b_elliott (Dec 9, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> I apologize in advance for presuming I'm about to inform you - but I wasn't clear - If I understand, you mean regarding the use of ducking compression on reverb ...


My post was meant as a silly joke, just some levity for the growing thread. Cheers, Bill


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## jesussaddle (Dec 9, 2022)

b_elliott said:


> My post was meant as a silly joke, just some levity for the growing thread. Cheers, Bill


I was feeling that was the more likely intent - I appreciate the humor.


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## jesussaddle (Dec 9, 2022)

averystemmler said:


> I'm not at my PC right now to give you precise instructions, but check out the modulation slots (they're in one of those expandable right-hand bars). I think you should be able to set up a "Detector" that reads the input signal, and then tie it to the output or wet/dry controls. Most Melda plugins can actually integrate a compressor of sorts this way.





Akoustecx said:


> @jesussaddle There should be a Meters & Utilities tab. Utilities contains 4 Mod tabs that open a configurable popup.


Thanks much! 

I'm not finding the utilities tab, although I am able to open the meters tab & I don't see 4 Mod tabs (at least the tabs and buttons I see, when I click on them, don't allow me to configure something related to my dynamics or adding a compressor.

I got a response from Chandler. He says there's a way to do it but he'll need to do a video on Melda's Youtube channel rather than explain it.


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