# Bah humbug



## Marsdy (Dec 3, 2005)

Here's a cue from a game I'm working on. Mix is a bit "end of the day." It ends funny because it needs to loop. 

The level in the game has something to do with giant bees in the subway or some such bollocks.

http://www.btinternet.com/~marsdy/Subway.mp3


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## Aaron Marshall (Dec 3, 2005)

Dave,

I'm loving this track. I love the brass swells you used. It's a great blend of classical and electronic. I also really like those high pitched swells that almost sound like breathing. This sounds so well produced and professional. 

-Aaron


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## Evan Gamble (Dec 3, 2005)

Kick ass cue! What Libs used? I hear A bunch of SAM Brass and EWQL? Not sure about what else though


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## Tod (Dec 3, 2005)

Unique Dave, liked it a lot.


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## Frederick Russ (Dec 3, 2005)

Yeah! Show em how it's done Marsdy - super nice cue.


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## rJames (Dec 3, 2005)

I didn't even listen to this cue because your reputation is so great I knew I would have nothing interesting to say.

But to try to disprove the idea that I am totally antisocial, I wanted to make an intelligent comment...

Whoa!


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## Aaron Sapp (Dec 3, 2005)

Awesome work Dave!


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## Jackull (Dec 3, 2005)

Excellent, lots of cool ideas... what kind of game was this cue for?
Thanks for sharing...

jackULL


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## Styrus (Dec 3, 2005)

Absolutely brilliant work....Love the brass, along with everything else.

Like aaron said, it's a nice blend of classical and electronic. I love the beats you've put in. Great job..

Yeah the end is a little strange, but like you said, it needs to loop.


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## lux (Dec 4, 2005)

This is really nice, Dave. yes...brilliant work.

btw...libs?  

Luca


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## IvanP (Dec 4, 2005)

Wow... this is really superb! 

Am I hearing some EW Pro in there? 

Best,

Iv


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## Marsdy (Dec 4, 2005)

Wow thanks guys I'm touched... no really!! 

@jackULL
Can't say what the game is until it's released. NDAs and all that! It's all action and you'd recognize the main characters.

@Evan and Luca
Libs are: Violins and Cellos are mostly VSL. Contra is EWQLSO. There is some Masterbit (which my spellchecker picks up as masturbate!) Peter Siedlaczek legato and spiccato strings. Trumps and bones are SAM, horns are VSL Epic Horns with some SAM Horns. Flutes are VSL ensemble, contrabassoon is EWQL. Percussion is from all over the place. There's some EWQL, Stormdrum Thunder Drums, tweaked RMX (with Burning Grooves add on.) Guitar is real. There's a bit of Hardcore Bass, Pro 53 and a lot of traileresque hits, bangs, whooshes and screwing about with plug-ins.

@Ivan
Not got EWQL Pro yet.


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## dlmusic (Dec 4, 2005)

Wow, really cool track  .


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## Scott Cairns (Dec 4, 2005)

Sh*t man, this is the first time Ive heard you do orchestral/electronic and dam....! 8) 

Really like the time sig changes.


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 4, 2005)

Very nice Dave!

Was wondering what mastering plug you chose after all that testing. Liked the guitar sound too. which amp did you use?


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## Marsdy (Dec 4, 2005)

Craig Sharmat said:


> Very nice Dave!
> 
> Was wondering what mastering plug you chose after all that testing. Liked the guitar sound too. which amp did you use?



Thanks Mr Sharmy 

I already had the lite version of the Waves L3 so that's what I used. That and a tad of Logic Linear EQ. 

The guitar sound was a Robert Keeley modified Boss Metal Zone pedal into a Pod XT Pro with Fender Bassman/4x12 Marshall models.


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## José Herring (Dec 4, 2005)

The whole cue is so damn smoking. 

First I think the guitar part could be tighter and then at the end you have french horn line doulbed by trumpet. Then french horns doulble with trumpet and violin an octave above. I think it would sound fuller and really cool if it was harmonized. I think also the harmony would mask a little the french horn articulation which sounds a little tad bit artificial.

But again. I think that in any lesser composition these things wouldn't have stood out. As it is its so pristine that even the smallest things call some attention.

Man some day I hope to get to your level of orchestral emulations. 

Jose


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## SteveDunster (Dec 4, 2005)

Dave

Really dramatic, so many fast changing textures. Menacing, relentless, indefatigable.

Love the running string quavers to keep the bee thing going. I never realised (or tried) you could get sample brass to run so fast.

I lost count of how many samples you must have used.

...but its not just the music, the mastering sounds fantastic too.

Love the pace at which you change textures. Percussion really does its job without getting in the way. Great lift into the heavy rock - then back to menacing.

Love that low-brass/low-strings combination in the menacing swell motif. Really gets to you.

But at 1:20+ some beautifully delicate horn harmonies with harp - a sorbet before the menacing returns, all the more menacing for the few moments of peace. Nice stuff.

Fantastically stimulating

Thank you for posting - I learnt a lot

...from a fellow UK resident

Steve


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## groove (Dec 5, 2005)

very very enjoyable brilliant cue !!

love that trumpet creazy "bee" run...

i miss only one thing : difference of deepness between some instruments, i mean i love the trombone swell "in your face" but then maybe some other instrument could gain by having an exagerate reverb on them to go in the same direction as you composition witch deal greatly with different time signature changes etc...

on a more symbolic point of view it could be compare to the fly-by of thoose "bees" once they are right on you and then suddenly off on a dark corridor in that subway !

that's it !

for the rest i wish i'd be able to do some like this :wink:


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## PaulR (Dec 5, 2005)

Marsdy said:


> The level in the game has something to do with giant bees in the subway or some such bollocks.



That cue's wasted on a poxy video game about friggin bees! WTF?


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## rJames (Dec 6, 2005)

SteveDunster said:


> Very clever, got it in the end!
> 
> Steve



Ouch! That musta hurt.

Working anagrams on the title right now, check back with me.


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## SteveDunster (Dec 6, 2005)

rJames said:


> SteveDunster said:
> 
> 
> > Very clever, got it in the end!
> ...



:oops: ...like you've no idea!

Steve


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## Marsdy (Dec 6, 2005)

Thanks for the nice comments and suggestions guys 



SteveDunster said:


> doh - I must be the slowest guy on the planet!
> 
> I've only just twigged the significance of your thread title.
> 
> ...



Sorry Steve but that wasn't deliberate :oops: 



rJames said:


> Dave,
> What can you tell us about your creative process?
> 
> How much input (direction) do you get from your client? Is there a clip to work from? Do they ask for sections with different levels of suspense and menace or??
> ...



Ron
The producer hasn't had time to do a thorough style guide for the music. They rarely do. :( He wants the orchestral elements in the same ball park as Batman Begins with some metal thrown in, stuff like System of a Down, Audioslave, Alice in Chains, Linkin Park. The metal stuff will come in more as the game progresses and gets tougher/more violent! He's quite clued up though which makes a change. He actually said he liked drop tuned guitar and he knows his movie music. 

I do have the game development document which is like a bible for the game. I've got tons of artwork and some video clips of the game. All this gives you valuable info about pace, intensity, mood etc. The music needs to ebb and flow which helps add drama, even though this is pretty much a full on action game. Otherwise it just gets on your nerves and gives you a headache! They want it sounding cinematic so the game player feels like he or she is in a movie.

That's pretty much all I got for guidance. Often you don't find out what's really required until a few cues have been accepted or rejected.

This cue isn't synced. It's in-game music.

One thing about doing this sort of work is you really need to sub-group the main elements and work with stems. That way when the producer says he wants more drums, or less orchestra and more metal then you can send him a change in minutes. 

BTW. Talking of cinematic game music, the new Star Wars Battlefront game (I think that's what it's called,) seems to have score comprising entirely of music lifted from the films. JW gets credited and there's a music editor credit!


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## rJames (Dec 6, 2005)

Thanks for taking the time for this behind-the-scenes view. (no pun intended, Steve)


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## SteveDunster (Dec 6, 2005)

Thanks Marsdy, this is a really useful insight...

...but whilst I'm in the mood for admitting I'm stupid, I wondered if you could expand a little more on this - what are stems?



Marsdy said:


> One thing about doing this sort of work is you really need to sub-group the main elements and work with stems. That way when the producer says he wants more drums, or less orchestra and more metal then you can send him a change in minutes.



Steve


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## Marsdy (Dec 6, 2005)

Steve

A stem is a submix (usually stereo,) of one element of a mix. 

Stem 1 might be the rhythm section.
Stem 2 Strings
Stem 3 Brass
Stem 4 Woodwind
Stem 5 Electronic/sound fx.

Sometimes you get asked to deliver a cue as a set of stems as well as a traditional stereo mix.

Actually I should have kept quiet about the thread title, you made me sound vaguely clever what with it being near Xmas!


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## SteveDunster (Dec 6, 2005)

Dave

Stems: excellent idea, I can see if the director is tweaking at the last minute, I can see this would be a load less bother.

Thanks for spending the time

Much obliged

Steve


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## Dan Selby (Dec 7, 2005)

I can only agree with other people's comments - this is really excellent, Marsdy, both the composition/orchestration and the production.

Overall, the production sounds great, not at all muddy and very cohesive - particularly impressive given how much you have going on and how many different libraries you are using for the orchestral stuff...

...there were just a couple of places where the illusion broke (for me) where a couple of articulations didn't seem to be in the same acoustic space - the flutter tongue trump crescendos (I think that's what they are) at around 55-57 seconds (and later too but they are most exposed here) seemed too near and dry.

You must have a really big template - how many machines are you using? I take it you started with an orchestral template with all the different libraries and articulations loaded and balanced, reverbs sorted etc? I would imagine it would have taken forever to get all your different libraries to sit so well together otherwise.

Great work!


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## ComposerDude (Dec 7, 2005)

This cue just rocks. Enjoying it very much.


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## synergy543 (Dec 7, 2005)

Love the dynamic mix and raw sounds - and the orchestration totally rips!

Very powerful.


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## jorgen (Dec 8, 2005)

cool stuff


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