# Synthesizer V - Vocaloid haters might want to check this



## Pier-V

I recently discovered that one single guy is basically writing the future of vocal virtual instruments, but despite the huge fanbase none of the "pros" seems to have noticed.
To be more specific, this company named Dreamtonics is working on a Vst, Synthesizer V. This Vst uses voicebanks, and the one that really captured my attention are Saki AI for japanese and Eleanor Forte Lite for english (the AI version is still in development).
It's basically like Vocaloid, but with the big difference that it's not a meme - yeah, maybe Porter Robinson made Avanna work but it's the exception to the rule (btw I proudly own Avanna... sorry Avanna but it's true).
Every voice in the excerpts below doesn't have a real life counterpart, and while Eleanor still needs work I have to admit Saki is impressive.
However, since neither japanese nor english are my native languages (as you can probably tell) I am genuinely curious to know what you think about all of this.
One last thing: listen the first two pieces as you like. The third one... please just don't use headphones.


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## Bee_Abney

I did not pass the test in the third video. Thank you for the warning.

I’m very impressed. Just deciphering the word is usually a challenge, but there were very musical. The second one was a bit lifeless, but almost right for a a certain kind of affectless style.

Thanks for sharing these.


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## baggage

ANRI is out in December


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## KarlHeinz

Where did you get the only englisch voice "Eleanor Forte lite" ? I looked on the dreamtonic site and it says "to be announced" only. 

I definitely did not need any japanese or pikachu voices


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## Bee_Abney

The professional version of Synthesiser V costs, with tax around £83. That sounds good value based on these demos. And there is the free version, too.


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## KarlHeinz

Another question: what could you do with the lite version, in which way are they restricted ?


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## Bee_Abney

baggage said:


> ANRI is out in December



Anri sounds very good.

The AI with samples hybrid approach is working nicely.


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## baggage

Currently, the only English AI Voice released is Tsurumaki Maki, voiced by a japanese voice actress. ANRI and Eleanor Forte AI are due to be released by the end of the year.

Also, there was a successful indiegogo campaign for SOLARIA - a synthesizer V AI voicebank by Eclipsed Sounds, voiced by nashville based singer Emma Rowley, due to be released in Feburary 2021.

There's also a male voicebank in development.

As for limitations with the lite version :

lite Standard voicebanks contain only one pitch of recorded phonemes, whereas the full version has multiple pitches of recorded phonemes.

Lite AI voicebanks render in a "speed" mode within Synthesizer V, which creates more noise than the "quality" rendering mode.

Lite voicebanks are for noncommercial use only.


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## José Herring

I find it fairly 2d and emotionless in both languages. 

I'm sure it will be popular though but in only replacing 3rd tear pop artist. Certainly isn't going to be replacing singers like Adele or Ariana Grande or Demi Levato.

I'm old school I guess. I like my singers to have SOUL!!!!


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## Leandro Gardini

Synthesizer V has been on some past threads here on VI-Control. It is indeed an unbelievable technology but with a wrong marketing in my opinion.
The guy has been focusing on Japanese voices which made it popular only in the east.


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## Bee_Abney

José Herring said:


> I find it fairly 2d and emotionless in both languages.
> 
> I'm sure it will be popular though but in only replacing 3rd tear pop artist. Certainly isn't going to be replacing singers like Adele or Ariana Grande or Demi Levato.


Gosh no! It isn’t going to replace live recording of real singers at all. Other than the novelty market, I see this as being good for replacing or augmenting the use of sampled vocals and some vox-like effects. And making demos or mock ups. I’m sure that some will be hoping for more out of it.


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## KarlHeinz

baggage said:


> Currently, the only English AI Voice released is Tsurumaki Maki, voiced by a japanese voice actress. ANRI and Eleanor Forte AI are due to be released by the end of the year.
> 
> Also, there was a successful indiegogo campaign for SOLARIA - a synthesizer V AI voicebank by Eclipsed Sounds, voiced by nashville based singer Emma Rowley, due to be released in Feburary 2021.
> 
> There's also a male voicebank in development.
> 
> As for limitations with the lite version :
> 
> lite Standard voicebanks contain only one pitch of recorded phonemes, whereas the full version has multiple pitches of recorded phonemes.
> 
> Lite AI voicebanks render in a "speed" mode within Synthesizer V, which creates more noise than the "quality" rendering mode.
> 
> Lite voicebanks are for noncommercial use only.


What does "one pitch" mean, only one note  ? That would be absolutley useless.


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## Bee_Abney

KarlHeinz said:


> What does "one pitch" mean, only one note  ? That would be absolutley useless.


One note sampled, not one note played. It means that the other notes away from the sampled one will sound less realistic.


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## José Herring

Bee_Abney said:


> Gosh no! It isn’t going to replace live recording of real singers at all. Other than the novelty market, I see this as being good for replacing or augmenting the use of sampled vocals and some vox-like effects. And making demos or mock ups. I’m sure that some will be hoping for more out of it.


I guess my views were tainted when I watched a video of 1000's of little Japanese kids crying to a hologram and vocaloid. Have people lost so much touch with what it means to be human that this kind of "performance" is at all appealing? I mean for a generation that grew up on "fury" stuff maybe that's what it's come down to.

But I do see potential in Anri. I use to do that with vocal phrase libraries and melodyne. It was pretty fun. seems like Anri with the right recordings could actually be something.


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## baggage

KarlHeinz said:


> What does "one pitch" mean, only one note  ? That would be absolutley useless.


standard voicebanks, which are not really being produced for the engine much anymore, are recorded by the voice providers singing a string of all possible phonemes for the given language, one pitch at a time, for how many pitches they choose to record, and is then pitched in engine accordingly, like a sampled instrument, so the further you go from the pitches it was recorded in the tone/legibility deviates more and more. Since the lite version only contains one pitch instead of the multi pitched full version, the tone shifts a lot more. Think a Piano Library with 127 velocity layers but only one note sampled so the tone falls apart outside of a small range.


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## KarlHeinz

Bee_Abney said:


> One note sampled, not one note played. It means that the other notes away from the sampled one will sound less realistic.


Thanks, one sample stretched. Wonder if it makes sense to test.


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## Bee_Abney

KarlHeinz said:


> Thanks, one sample stretched. Wonder if it makes sense to test.


I’d definitely prefer a trial download of the full version.


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## Markrs

The first one is really impressive and if we can get that level of quality in English language, then it will open up lots of possibilities.


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## baggage

the lite AI voicebanks are the same as the full voicebanks, just with faster, lower quality rendering in engine

Also, to make sure you all know, the first example in japanese was manually tuned/manipulated by hand, and is not what you would get right out of the program, though the AI voicebanks do have an auto pitch mode that creates pitchbends based off the way the voice provider sings


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## Wolf68

thanks for that hint! I didn't expect anymore, that the artificial vocalist technology will develop into a serious direction after all of the silly smurf voices of vocaloid. sounds promising!


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## AudioLoco

Not toooo far off most current auto tune "real" plastic pop vocals, but still terrible.
It might work fine for some commercial generes with not very descerning audience, but music is something else and this is repulsive to my ears.
Having said that, the Japanese version is much better compared to the English one I think.


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## Jimmy Hellfire

I'll put it like this. For pop music it's good enough.


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## baggage

It took decades for synthesizers and sampling to approach realism and playability, and vocal synthesis is comparatively in its infancy still. Don't think of it as replacing humans, that's the same as trying to use omnisphere to replace a skilled orchestra. This is its own thing, and it's not for everybody, but if you take it for what it is, it's very fun and exciting


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## Vlzmusic

The simple truth about vocal synthesis in the form of Vocaloid, Synth V, and Emvoice to some extent, is that there is no huge difference in underneath tech. In order to produce sung lyrics they all use speech synthesis principles from the ones you hear in text-to-speech apps etc. They record all the needed speech elements, and use it in the engine. But in my view - they don't record enough material. Eleanor sounds crazy on one pitch, and ridiculous on another, and obviously does smell like samples stretching. This whole "Vocaloid industry" seriously needs some sample lib developer involvement, to provide more, and better source material.

----2022 UPDATE----
This post got obsolete quickly - with the release of Synth V AI line of voices. They weight nothing in data size, but the results they give are stupendous. Hence this tech is beyond simple audio concatenation, and doesn't rely on recordings that much. Not to mention the cross-language ability


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## Sarah Mancuso

Vocal synths have enabled a ton of bedroom producers to develop their own personal and experimental takes on pop music with no budget required. It’s an incredible tool that’s enabled so much creativity. People aren't listening to it to replace what they get from human vocalists, it's become its own thing entirely. If you don’t get it, you don’t get it.


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## RogiervG

most english examples i've heard sound very bad (hard to hear what is said, and weird pronounciations, because of not being english oriented synth wise)
Emvoice is a tad better, but still sounds not convincing.

It's a long long long long way to go still.. before we are getting convincing results (with proper pronounciations), and don't get me started on melodic phrasing... with all kinds of vocal techniques (vibrato control, dynamics (yelling, soft singing, whisper etc), front or back in the mouth wordbuilding, tension on the lips, sliss or not.. etc


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## jcrosby

Absolutely terrifying sounding!

I found it about as convincing as...


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## KarlHeinz

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Vocal synths have enabled a ton of bedroom producers to develop their own personal and experimental takes on pop music with no budget required. It’s an incredible tool that’s enabled so much creativity. People aren't listening to it to replace what they get from human vocalists, it's become its own thing entirely. If you don’t get it, you don’t get it.


If I think about to what my daughter is listening actually (pikachu version of evry song you can imagine, dont know what its called really, as dreadful as it is) it seems you are definitely right.

Even if the old man has to admit this with a big SIGH....... But "Times they are a changing" (always and wont stop, glad about this ).


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## Sarah Mancuso

Well, Vocaloid itself has been a thing for nearly 20 years already. None of this is really that new or strange, nor is it just a thing "the kids" are into.


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## Vlzmusic

I've decided to link a small example, just to bring folks closer to understanding of what they actually hear.

So there is a Disney song on YouTube, produced with Synth V, using Eleanor Forte. What you hear in 98% is the same old butchered and stretched source samples you hear in all Vocaloid type synthesis, BUT, its important to realize, what can other 2% do, just because it happened to fall on suitable vowel and pitch, so here is the partial list of what to pay attention to:

1) Words "this part" on 0:29 seconds

2) Words "my reflection" on 1:00 minute

3) Same "my reflection" on 1:20 minute

4) And last, but not least, that killer "inside" on 1:28, which is probably the best sounding note any Vocaloid type engine has yet produced.

So - the tech is there, but it needs good implementation.


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## KarlHeinz

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Well, Vocaloid itself has been a thing for nearly 20 years already. None of this is really that new or strange, nor is it just a thing "the kids" are into.


I miss the comparision actually while I have not tried out Synthesizer V but for my personal use experiments with Vocaloid V and especially Avanna where not that bad. 

I mostly used existing phrases and filled them with my own words, with alternating voices and doubling for kind of choir sound it really dont work that bad.

But simply horrible to get into that complex procedure with different windows needs to be opened in Vocaloid and daw (even in 5 which is much better then the versions before it seems) and evrything. If I work with it evryday might be o.k. but not if you use it evry few months.

So if someone can confirm that sound/vocal quality in Synthesizer V with the englisch lite soundbanks is not worse then vocaloid Avanna I might give it a try and see if its is much easier to work with.


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## Werty

Vocal synths are amazing, we are not so far away from having Pavarotti and Freddie Mercury in our keyboards. Check this thread, Emvoice and Myriad virtual singer are the ones to watch. 






VOCALOID


Just discovered this today after unironically listening to some Hatsune Miku tracks yesterday: https://www.vocaloid.com/en/ Does anyone have experience using this? If so, how do you use it? What styles of music? And how difficult is it to learn/use?




vi-control.net


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## Getsumen

Vlzmusic said:


> I've decided to link a small example, just to bring folks closer to understanding of what they actually hear.
> 
> So there is a Disney song on YouTube, produced with Synth V, using Eleanor Forte. What you hear in 98% is the same old butchered and stretched source samples you hear in all Vocaloid type synthesis, BUT, its important to realize, what can other 2% do, just because it happened to fall on suitable vowel and pitch, so here is the partial list of what to pay attention to:
> 
> 1) Words "this part" on 0:29 seconds
> 
> 2) Words "my reflection" on 1:00 minute
> 
> 3) Same "my reflection" on 1:20 minute
> 
> 4) And last, but not least, that killer "inside" on 1:28, which is probably the best sounding note any Vocaloid type engine has yet produced.
> 
> So - the tech is there, but it needs good implementation.



A good portion depends on the user though.
If they just loaded up a MIDI file and didn't tweak the pitch then it'll be quite bad.

I think the first example that the OP posted was quite good because they really got into it and manually tweaked the pitch and tuning. 

Of course I don't know Japanese so this makes my opinions a lot less valid but IMO it passed for being a human pretty alright for various portions


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## Vlzmusic

Getsumen said:


> A good portion depends on the user though.
> If they just loaded up a MIDI file and didn't tweak the pitch then it'll be quite bad.
> 
> I think the first example that the OP posted was quite good because they really got into it and manually tweaked the pitch and tuning.
> 
> Of course I don't know Japanese so this makes my opinions a lot less valid but IMO it passed for being a human pretty alright for various portions


The musical part depends, yes, but not the timbre. Unless you destroying it further with wrong ranges choice, or additional tweaks like formant shift etc.


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## Casiquire

RogiervG said:


> most english examples i've heard sound very bad (hard to hear what is said, and weird pronounciations, because of not being english oriented synth wise)
> Emvoice is a tad better, but still sounds not convincing.
> 
> It's a long long long long way to go still.. before we are getting convincing results (with proper pronounciations), and don't get me started on melodic phrasing... with all kinds of vocal techniques (vibrato control, dynamics (yelling, soft singing, whisper etc), front or back in the mouth wordbuilding, tension on the lips, sliss or not.. etc


I think Emvoice is the worst of the three. I find the words pretty clear and easy to understand in the OP's second video too. The pronunciation is pretty impressive.

As for the second paragraph, absolutely.

I do find people in this forum to be particularly resistant to these types of vocal libraries. There's little appreciation for them as a tool of artistic expression in their own right, and there's very little desire to acknowledge massive achievements toward realism with an instrument that's at once the most complex instrument of all AND the one our ears are most precisely tuned to hearing anything remotely out of the ordinary. The results here are super impressive and give me reasonable hope that this isn't an unsolvable problem


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## Pier-V

What an overwhelming response! Well, it turns out I was wrong: many of you DO, in fact, know about SynthV. I'm kind of glad, because I think that what Dreamtonics is doing is important and deserves recognition, even if the result is still not quite there. Also, I'm new to the forum and let me say, this is a fascinating community. Many different opinions have been expressed, sometimes going in completely opposite directions, but all of them have been properly argumented and respected. Personally, I agree with the point of view of Sarah Mancuso and Bee_Abney: theese products give plenty of room for experimentation and no, they aren't and shouldn't be intended as a replacement for real singers. Also, I posted some good pop examples but I never said they should be used for pop only: what I have in mind is actually a lot more twisted and less money-making 
The learning curve is steep though so it will take a looong time i guess...
I also think theese programs are an amazing tool to LEARN how the human voice works: how we use intonation to express feeling, what it means from a rythmical perspective to accentuate a syllable, what shape shoud be used to get proper vibrato and so on.

@KarlHeinz I love Avanna but I think SynthV is better in every regard.


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## Vlzmusic

Casiquire said:


> I think Emvoice is the worst of the three.


-----I can assure you, its quite the opposite . Emvoice has the most precise engine of them all, and best Vsti implementation by far. Once better voicebanks start pouring in, it will shine, but second voice they put out a year ago is already nice, here is a demo----

*Update:* as I can see people still reacting to this post. Well, recent pre-release demos of AI based Synth V voices change the picture quite a bit, and I am yet to test their Vsti plugin, so this statement is not valid as of now.


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## NekujaK

I'm excited about these artificial voice technologies and can't wait to see them evolve. For now, development efforts have primarilly focused on the actual voice-generating technology, as it should, but I'm hoping they can soon start devoting some time to the user experience.

Currently, note and lyric entry is cumbersome and time-consuming. Ideally, I'd like to be able to sing my melody and lyrics into the plugin and have it automatically extract the notes and timing, and parse the lyrics, so I'm presented with a reasonable starting point from which to start tweaking, instead of having to manually enter the melody note-by-note and lyrics word-by-word. The tech to do this already exists, they just need to bake into their plugins.

Crossing my fingers things start moving in this direction sooner than later I want to make music, not program a computer!


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## Casiquire

Vlzmusic said:


> I can assure you, its quite the opposite . Emvoice has the most precise engine of them all, and best Vsti implementation by far. Once better voicebanks start pouring in, it will shine, but second voice they put out a year ago is already nice, here is a demo



That's the best example I've heard from it! Ok yeah it's competitive


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## Lode_Runner

Vlzmusic said:


> I can assure you, its quite the opposite . Emvoice has the most precise engine of them all, and best Vsti implementation by far. Once better voicebanks start pouring in, it will shine, but second voice they put out a year ago is already nice, here is a demo



That's almost Mercury Rev like vocals. 

I'd like it if this technology could be used to create my own dream vocalists, so that I could take elements of say Jeff Buckley and Chris Cornell and blend them together. That'd be fun and great for songwriting. 

Unfortunately most of these sound like Japanese schoolgirls on helium with autotune thrown on top.


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## Werty

Lode_Runner said:


> That's almost Mercury Rev like vocals.
> 
> I'd like it if this technology could be used to create my own dream vocalists, so that I could take elements of say Jeff Buckley and Chris Cornell and blend them together. That'd be fun and great for songwriting.
> 
> Unfortunately most of these sound like Japanese schoolgirls on helium with autotune thrown on top.


That's why the future is promising for these. We have very specific taste regarding voices, and we are extremely picky, it's not like having one violin=one sound. As more voicebanks means more choice, we will se great stuff very soon. But I like already Lucy sound from Emvoice, don't tell me she sounds like a schoolgirl on helium:


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## Lode_Runner

Werty said:


> That's why the future is promising for these. We have very specific taste regarding voices, and we are extremely picky, it's not like having one violin=one sound. As more voicebanks means more choice, we will se great stuff very soon. But I like already Lucy sound from Emvoice, don't tell me she sounds like a schoolgirl on helium:



If you like her, that's good.


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## Bee_Abney

Werty said:


> That's why the future is promising for these. We have very specific taste regarding voices, and we are extremely picky, it's not like having one violin=one sound. As more voicebanks means more choice, we will se great stuff very soon. But I like already Lucy sound from Emvoice, don't tell me she sounds like a schoolgirl on helium:



Very definitely no Helium.


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## Vlzmusic

Lode_Runner said:


> That's almost Mercury Rev like vocals.
> 
> I'd like it if this technology could be used to create my own dream vocalists, so that I could take elements of say Jeff Buckley and Chris Cornell and blend them together. That'd be fun and great for songwriting.
> 
> Unfortunately most of these sound like Japanese schoolgirls on helium with autotune thrown on top.


The helium part comes from the samples stretching and shifting, and usually gets worse than it should, cause the YouTube kids don't know damn thing about vocal ranges.

And that's exactly the problem to create "my own dream vocalist" - you needs tons and tons of precisely recorded materials from a voice talent, to make it work.


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## Bee_Abney

For those able to record their own vocals, there is also the morphing plus pitch and formant adjustment route. My attempts retain a certain electronic quality, but it is a way of creating a hybrid voice for your own lyrics.


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## RogiervG

Casiquire said:


> I do find people in this forum to be particularly resistant to these types of vocal libraries. There's little appreciation for them as a tool of artistic expression in their own right......<snip>


I think it has to do with, the musical styles.. i dare to say the majority of musicians here, are more into classical/epic/soundtrack kind of music, and lesser so into Pop/jazz/rock etc.. type of music. In the latter these vocal synths shine way better than the former.


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## Anthony

Hi,

I decided to give Synthesizer V Studio Basic a try, but am not able to load in any of the Lite Version Voices. According to the online manual (link below), you do this via the menu item Project > Voice Database. The closest option on my version (v1.3.0) is Project > Set Voice. Unfortunately, this is currently grayed out (see screenshot below). Does anyone know how to fix this issue?

Cheers...

_https://synthesizerv.com/manual/singer_selection.htm?ms=AQY%3D&st=MA%3D%3D&sct=MA%3D%3D&mw=MjQw#_


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## baggage

Anthony said:


> Hi,
> 
> I decided to give Synthesizer V Studio Basic a try, but am not able to load in any of the Lite Version Voices. According to the online manual (link below), you do this via the menu item Project > Voice Database. The closest option on my version (v1.3.0) is Project > Set Voice. Unfortunately, this is currently grayed out (see screenshot below). Does anyone know how to fix this issue?
> 
> Cheers...
> 
> _https://synthesizerv.com/manual/singer_selection.htm?ms=AQY%3D&st=MA%3D%3D&sct=MA%3D%3D&mw=MjQw#_


The voice databases are underneath -




Click on Voice Databases, and download the voices you want. Opening the SVPK file installs them


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## Anthony

baggage said:


> The voice databases are underneath -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click on Voice Databases, and download the voices you want. Opening the SVPK file installs them


Thank you!!!


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## Pier-V

By the way, another important thing to keep in mind is that this program is being updated at a very fast pace. The current version, for example, was updated in june after just a few months of development. I'll let you decide if that was worth the wait:


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## szczaw

Synth V demo is fully functional. Nothing prevented me from making a tune with it. I'm wondering if there's expiration.


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## baggage

szczaw said:


> Synth V demo is fully functional. Nothing prevented me from making a tune with it. I'm wondering if there's expiration.


The Basic Edition isn't a 'demo', it's just free, you can use it commercially if you have bought a full voicebank. However, you get more features with Synthesizer V Studio Pro, such as 

- more than three vocal tracks at once
- Live rendering uses more CPU Cores
- Aspiration Output, which renders the aspirations and the tonal content of the singing separately for more creative mixing
- Lua / Javascript scripting

and other features


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## szczaw

Thanks clarifying baggage. This makes it a great free tool for arranging vocal.


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## Michel Simons

I hope they will release more english voices, because that would make it more interesting (at least for me). And a clearer way to buy it without having to learn Japanese would be nice as well.


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## baggage

you can currently purchase in english through the AniCUTE store, maybe more english resellers will show up in the future


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## Piano Pete

baggage said:


> you can currently purchase in english through the AniCUTE store, maybe more english resellers will show up in the future


A friend was complaining about this last year or so, but doesnt AniCUTE require you to jump through hoops before you can purchase it? I think he said it was a "vip" thing or something.


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## timbit2006

You could do a cover of Still Alive but in several different voices!


Jokes aside I've been wondering about this one for a while, vocaloids+choirs sound neat.


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## Pier-V

Yeah, that would be the same of layering a string quartet with a strings vst. I think it should work.


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## Pier-V

Also:


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## David Cuny

The only native English voice for _SynthV_ right now is Eleanor Forte, and that's basically a proof-of-concept voice. As has been noted, there are several native English female voices in development and will be released in the next couple of months, and a native English male voice on the way, with no announced delivery date.

_SynthV_ started out a diphone-based re-synthesis engine for UTAU called _Moresampler_ developed by Kanru Hua. It performs harmonic analysis on the source material and is able to reconstruct it without many of the artifacts that you get using other time and pitch shifting techniques. This can be seen in the wide range of pitches that Eleanor Forte can handle, despite the voicebank only being sampled at a single pitch.

As a prior post noted, audio reconstruction is augmented by a neural network. This allows it to better handle gaps in the phoneme database, as well as reconstruct detail such as high-frequency aspiration sounds.

I've used Eleanor Forte for a number of demo songs. I'm only a hobbyist, and none of my songs would fool a native English speaker. But the Eleanor Forte voice was also the first voice that was created for _SynthV_. There are a number of songs released using non-English voicebanks that have fooled me.

These are probably the best demos of what the voices can do:







I'm looking forward to hear what the upcoming native English voicebanks will offer - I've ordered them all.

As for commercial use, the licensing for the _SynthV _reads like it was generated via Google Translate, but the key point (at least for the Eleanor Forte voice) is this: _Commercial Use only applies if you are using the copyright image associated with the voicebank_.

There are only a few limitations of the free version of _SynthV_:

No alternate versions of phonemes are available;
Only two voices can be used at a time;
The scripting option isn't available
These are pretty minor limitations - at least, in terms of evaluating it. The need for alternate phonemes (some of them are just plain wrong) is what drove me to buy the full version. It's certainly much cheaper than _Vocaloid_, and the voices are much better, even if Eleanor Forte tends to over-articulate words.

Like any synthetic instrument, understanding of how an instrument is played will get the best results.


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## szczaw

Demoing Emvoice. You can totally fool your ma. Using both voices in the same editor would be wild.

View attachment emvoice.mp3


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## baggage

some new demos for upcoming voices -


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## Pier-V

baggage said:


> some new demos for upcoming voices -



Both the demos are really well done!

In the description of the second video it is clearly stated that Eleanor Forte **AI* *is being used, and I couldn't help but notice a drastic change in timbre... do any of you think/know if this is due to the different programming, or if this is just a creative use of the gender function?

_Edit: I've done a quick search and it seems now Eleanor Forte AI is available for preorder again on Anicute! Does this mean the voicebank is finally approaching its official release? Anyway, thanks baggage for bringing this to our attention!_


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## baggage

The cover of Artpop is Eleanor Forte AI's default settings, so the tone is a tad more mature, but it can be edited to be closer to the original voice. I think Volor has said that they may release Eleanor to those who have preordered this month!


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## Vlzmusic

This new wave of AI voices clearly puts Synth V in the lead now. Exciting!


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## David Cuny

Here's another demo of Eleanor Forte AI. The writer and producer of "Oasis" is Crusher, who's well known in the Vocaloid community. I think the "Artpop" demo is superior, but since I've already pre-ordered it, that's a bit moot. 




Of the remaining native English voicebanks on the way, the SOLARIA voice is in final cleanup, and demos should be released Real Soon Now™.

There's an English male voice under development, but from the 15 second snippet that was played, it doesn't sound like they used a native English speaker. I'm really not liking what I've heard of it so far.


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## szczaw

It doesn't sound like the same voice bank was used in Artpop and Oasis. Artpop sounds very good.


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## David Cuny

szczaw said:


> It doesn't sound like the same voice bank was used in Artpop and Oasis. Artpop sounds very good.


The voice data comes from the voice provider, and there's no getting around that.

So if the voice provider is overly nasal, or says certain vowels with an accent, that's going to stay the same no matter what.

But there are a lot of parameters _SynthV_ that *can* be adjusted, including _tension_ (glottal pulse open quotient), _breathiness_ (amount of added aspiration) and _gender_ (formant shift).

So there's a lot of control over the character of the voice. Shifting the _gender_ can drastically change the apparent age of the singer.

And dynamically adjusting these helps craft a more realistic performance.

You can also make adjustments at the phoneme level. So "tomorrow" could be */t ax- m aa - r ow/* or */t uw - m aa - r ow/* depending on how precisely you want to articulate it.

You can also adjust the timing of each phoneme. With the AI voices, you can also adjust the "strength" of the phoneme, while the non-AI allows selection of alternate takes of the phoneme.

It's a lot like any other VI - how convincing the demo is depends on what's put into the performance. And with the "Oasis" demo, I suspect the performance was aimed at people who prefer a more synthetic performance.


----------



## Michel Simons

Will there also be a lite version of the Eleanor Forte AI voice?


----------



## David Cuny

Michel Simons said:


> Will there also be a lite version of the Eleanor Forte AI voice?


----------



## Vlzmusic

Frankly, I am even more excited for this voice now:


----------



## Pier-V

By the way, nobody has mentioned yet how this vst sounds *out of the box, without any automation* whatsoever. In this short demonstration, made using the _*lite ai version* _(which is free for anyone to try as long as it's not used for commercial purposes), I transcribed a short melody excerpt from Spirited Away: the only things I changed were some minor global settings and two very very brief automations to experiment on pitch and tension in the first and second part respectively. Imho, having this kind of result with so little effort is a remarkable achievement on its own - and it is also a testament of how powerful and effective machine learning and neural networks can be when used to recreate musicality in a performance.


----------



## ip20

David Cuny said:


> These are probably the best demos of what the voices can do:




The YouTube info page for this has a description as Saki AI Lite. Surprised at how well the results are for even the lite version.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier-V said:


> By the way, nobody has mentioned yet how this vst sounds *out of the box, without any automation* whatsoever. In this short demonstration, made using the _*lite ai version* _(which is free for anyone to try as long as it's not used for commercial purposes), I transcribed a short melody excerpt from Spirited Away: the only things I changed were some minor global settings and two very very brief automations to experiment on pitch and tension in the first and second part respectively. Imho, having this kind of result with so little effort is a remarkable achievement on its own - and it is also a testament of how powerful and effective machine learning and neural networks can be when used to recreate musicality in a performance.


That's pretty much astounding.


----------



## baggage

Synthesizer V Studio was updated

https://dreamtonics.com/en/synthesizer-v-studio-1-4-0-update/



> Synthesizer V Studio 1.4.0 update has been released.
> 
> This update includes support for the 4th generation AI voice databases, a new version of Auto Pitch Tuning feature that allows customization, a new command for auto-splitting notes based on the melody context, improved phoneme conversion rules for American English and other feature and sound quality enhancements.
> 
> To install the update, please visit the “License and Updates” panel in Synthesizer V Studio.


----------



## David Cuny

I just installed the update.

In terms of sound quality, the non-AI version of the voices are much better than the AI voices. They are more clear, and the phonemes are more accurate. If you compare the voices in Praat, you'll see the vocals have less spectral detail (harmonic resolution), and less time detail. They also have less motion detail in general - I've had one case where a diphthong come out as monothong.

The update seems to have possibly improved the AI voices slightly, but not much.

That said, I just imported a file from Vocaloid into SynthV. I thought the SynthV AI voicebank was easily better than the Vocaloid, and the SynthV "classic" voice even better. YMMV.


----------



## szczaw

Heads up ! Emvoice is on sale, 40% off. Synth V may have better voice rendering, but the editor and daw integration is not as good.


----------



## baggage

szczaw said:


> Heads up ! Emvoice is on sale, 40% off. Synth V may have better voice rendering, but the editor and daw integration is not as good.


Emvoice, it's not really a good comparison, Emvoice is a different type of technology, more of Deep Sampling Brute Forcing than Concatenative or DNN synthesis, plus Emvoice is inherently reliant on the cloud for use.

While the DAW integration is much better, I'm personally not a big fan of Emvoice's editor, pitchbending is bizarre, unable to easily modify once you've made a change, plus no vibrato options, and having to fiddle with phrases rather than working at a word to phoneme level. 

That said, the singing synthesis market is still too early in its infancy to pick sides, the more the merrier


----------



## Vlzmusic

szczaw said:


> Heads up ! Emvoice is on sale, 40% off. Synth V may have better voice rendering, but the editor and daw integration is not as good.


Synth V has a Pro version with a Vsti plugin, still havent used it, so I cant say anything, but judging from the Basic, the Editor should not be a major hassle. Emvoice has good pronunciation, but there are close to zero tweaking parameters, so we can only guess how good it would handle all the bonanza of settings Synth V has. I know I`ve said recently Emvoice was the more sophisticated, but I was just out of the loop with the recent AI versions in Synth V - they change the equasion.


----------



## szczaw

I'm interested in both, but since I hire a vocalist to rerecord, quicker editing and better integration is what tips the scale.


----------



## Pier-V

In this thread I used Saki AI Lite as an analysis tool: I transcribed a short cello line and I took advantage of human speech to represent different bowing techniques with different syllables. Since a new version is available, I decided to share a direct comparison between the third and fourth version using the same project and mixing chain - more in specific:

1) Saki AI Lite *v3* - Wet with Eq



2) Saki AI Lite *v4* - Wet with Eq



3) Saki AI v3 and v4 *Dry Together*, hard panned L/R respectively



4) Both versions *summed in mono with reversed polarity* to better hear the differencies (notice how similiar they are towards the falsetto part in the end) - _this may not be 100% accurate since there's some amount of randomization in SynthV rendering every time a file is updated/modified

[attached below in mp3 format]_


----------



## Vlzmusic

Soooo... Synth V it is then.


----------



## Markrs

Vlzmusic said:


> Soooo... Synth V it is then.



This sounds amazing given how exposed the singing is. It might not be 100% convincing but it is some of the best generated vocals I have ever heard. Sounds like Synth V might have to be on a list of future purchases.


----------



## Pier-V

@Vlzmusic Stunning. The programming in the new AI version is top notch. Youtube now is full of covers and original songs in various genres were this Vst is already starting to shine. I mean, wth she speaks in French already lol.
However, believe it or not I'll miss the old nasal, childish voice. I've always thought Eleanor Forte Lite has something truly unique, but I understand this kind of stuff is higly personal and progress has to be made.
I just hope the older version won't be completely forgotten in the next months, and for that reason I've preenptively gathered some tracks where something surprised me in a good way. Not necessarily the tone or the programming, just... something.


----------



## David Cuny

Pier-V said:


> However, believe it or not I'll miss the old nasal, childish voice. I've always thought Eleanor Forte Lite has something truly unique, but I understand this kind of stuff is highly personal and progress has to be made.


They're certainly _different_ voices. I'm working on a song with the AI voice, and switched over to classic version. I immediately heard a number of phonemes that were wrong - stuff like */ao/* for /*aa/*or */ey/* instead of */ay/*. 

I think it speaks to the clarity of the non-AI voice, as well as a UI that uses an 8 point font.

But the _quality_ of the AI voice is certainly much more appealing. It's much less strident and nasal, and more human.

Still, if a non-AI version of Eleanor comes out, I'll certainly be interested in checking it out.


----------



## RobbertZH

Vlzmusic said:


> Soooo... Synth V it is then.



That sounds good.
But when looking up how to buy it, I became rather confused:

a) When I go to the website of Dreamtonics, select the SynthesizerV page, then look at the Line Up (list of voices), I see that Eleanor Forte is "to be announced". At the other hand, when I select to buy the professional version of SynthV and select the AnyCute shop, I see a bundle of SynthesizerV Studio Pro＋Eleanor Forte AI.

Is this Eleanor Forte AI the latest version as featured in the above youtube video?

b) There is a free basic version and a professional version of SynthesizerV

How much better is the professional version compared to the basic version?

c) If I download the basic version, how/where can I buy the latest version of the voice library of Eleanor Forte?

d) There are three sales links. AnyCute is in English, the other two are in chinese or another asian language. Is AnyCute a safe shop to buy from? Or are there other english sites where I can buy the software and/or library?

Thanks in advance for your help/answers


----------



## Vlzmusic

RobbertZH said:


> That sounds good.
> But when looking up how to buy it, I became rather confused:
> 
> a) When I go to the website of Dreamtonics, select the SynthesizerV page, then look at the Line Up (list of voices), I see that Eleanor Forte is "to be announced". At the other hand, when I select to buy the professional version of SynthV and select the AnyCute shop, I see a bundle of SynthesizerV Studio Pro＋Eleanor Forte AI.
> 
> Is this Eleanor Forte AI the latest version as featured in the above youtube video?
> 
> b) There is a free basic version and a professional version of SynthesizerV
> 
> How much better is the professional version compared to the basic version?
> 
> c) If I download the basic version, how/where can I buy the latest version of the voice library of Eleanor Forte?
> 
> d) There are three sales links. AnyCute is in English, the other two are in chinese or another asian language. Is AnyCute a safe shop to buy from? Or are there other english sites where I can buy the software and/or library?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help/answers


Hi Robert!
I plan to purchase them on anycute, it seems legit. Eleanor Forte AI is an upcoming voicebank, which is open for pre-order, and should be out soon. Synthesizer V Pro is the version featuring Vsti plugin, and some advanced stuff.


----------



## David Cuny

RobbertZH said:


> That sounds good.
> But when looking up how to buy it, I became rather confused:


Dreamtonics has a terrible website. It's hard to navigate, stuff doesn't render until you mouse over it, things are hidden in small print, and so on.

They aren't shady, they're just far too clever for their own good.



RobbertZH said:


> a) When I go to the website of Dreamtonics, select the SynthesizerV page, then look at the Line Up (list of voices), I see that Eleanor Forte is "to be announced". At the other hand, when I select to buy the professional version of SynthV and select the AnyCute shop, I see a bundle of SynthesizerV Studio Pro＋Eleanor Forte AI.
> 
> Is this Eleanor Forte AI the latest version as featured in the above youtube video?


The Eleanor Forte AI voice was released early this week to people who had pre-ordered it. But it's not generally available.

So it's not "officially" released yet. If it says AI in the name, it's using the latest release.



RobbertZH said:


> b) There is a free basic version and a professional version of SynthesizerV
> 
> How much better is the professional version compared to the basic version?



The most important feature of the full version is - for the non-AI voices - the ability to access alternate takes of phonemes.

There are also licensing restrictions on how you can use songs created with the Basic version.

I believe it also limits the number of cores you can use while rendering, but the audio quality is the same.

But the easiest thing to do is grab the Basic editor and free voices, and try it out.



RobbertZH said:


> c) If I download the basic version, how/where can I buy the latest version of the voice library of Eleanor Forte?



I used the Anicute site. Perhaps the most confusing part of their website is that they have multiple posts for the same product, because it's exactly the same thing, but one is in English, the next is in Japanese, and then Chinese. But at first glance, it looks like there are multiple versions of the same thing.



RobbertZH said:


> d) There are three sales links. AnyCute is in English, the other two are in chinese or another asian language. Is AnyCute a safe shop to buy from? Or are there other english sites where I can buy the software and/or library?


I've had no problems with Anicute. Sometimes the automatic emails are a bit slow, probably because of time differences.


----------



## szczaw

The pro version is actually a vsti editor that runs inside the daw ?


----------



## David Cuny

szczaw said:


> The pro version is actually a vsti editor that runs inside the daw ?


The Basic version also runs in a DAW, you may want to run it stand-alone instead. I've read it doesn't work that well with anything too complex - _i.e. _something with multiple time changes.

Personally, I import a backing track, build the vocals in _SynthV_, and export out to the DAW. If I need to make changes, I launch _SynthV_, edit, and export again.

I figure it's less things to go wrong.


----------



## szczaw

David Cuny said:


> The Basic version also runs in a DAW, you may want to run it stand-alone instead. I've read it doesn't work that well with anything too complex - _i.e. _something with multiple time changes.
> 
> Personally, I import a backing track, build the vocals in _SynthV_, and export out to the DAW. If I need to make changes, I launch _SynthV_, edit, and export again.
> 
> I figure it's less things to go wrong.


The free version (build 18) is a standalone with a vsti audio bridge.


----------



## Robert_G

How much will Eleanor cost when released?


----------



## David Cuny

Robert_G said:


> How much will Eleanor cost when released?


It's listed on ANiCUTE website. There's even a handy currency converter at the top of the page. 

The pre-order cost of Eleanor Forte AI is $88 USD (NT$ 2,450).

The regular price is $97 USD (NT$ 2,690).


----------



## Robert_G

David Cuny said:


> It's listed on ANiCUTE website. There's even a handy currency converter at the top of the page.
> 
> The pre-order cost of Eleanor Forte AI is $88 USD (NT$ 2,450).
> 
> The regular price is $97 USD (NT$ 2,690).


So 80 for the synth and then 88 for Eleanor? 168 total?


----------



## David Cuny

Robert_G said:


> So 80 for the synth and then 88 for Eleanor? 168 total?


Yes, check out the 2 in 1 Bundle Pack, listed for US$ 167.11.


----------



## RobbertZH

David Cuny said:


> Dreamtonics has a terrible website. It's hard to navigate, stuff doesn't render until you mouse over it, things are hidden in small print, and so on.
> 
> They aren't shady, they're just far too clever for their own good.
> 
> 
> The Eleanor Forte AI voice was released early this week to people who had pre-ordered it. But it's not generally available.
> 
> So it's not "officially" released yet. If it says AI in the name, it's using the latest release.
> 
> 
> 
> The most important feature of the full version is - for the non-AI voices - the ability to access alternate takes of phonemes.
> 
> There are also licensing restrictions on how you can use songs created with the Basic version.
> 
> I believe it also limits the number of cores you can use while rendering, but the audio quality is the same.
> 
> But the easiest thing to do is grab the Basic editor and free voices, and try it out.
> 
> 
> 
> I used the Anicute site. Perhaps the most confusing part of their website is that they have multiple posts for the same product, because it's exactly the same thing, not one in English, then Japanese, and then Chinese.
> 
> 
> I've had no problems with Anicute. Sometimes the automatic emails are a bit slow, probably because of time differences.


Thanks for your extensive reply!


----------



## ChazC

That Anicute website is a complete mess. 

Even when you click English for the language there’s a heck of a lot of Japanese still displayed.

From what I can gather, the VST and the only 2 English libraries are the 3 in 1 bundle for $242.37USD, correct?

The website is that bad it’s almost screaming ‘don’t buy’! Have to say those demo’s sound really good though.


----------



## KarlHeinz

ChazC said:


> That Anicute website is a complete mess.
> 
> Even when you click English for the language there’s a heck of a lot of Japanese still displayed.
> 
> From what I can gather, the VST and the only 2 English libraries are the 3 in 1 bundle for $242.37USD, correct?
> 
> The website is that bad it’s almost screaming ‘don’t buy’! Have to say those demo’s sound really good though.


I could not even reach the site.....

No, as long as there is no "regular" buy options for outside asia, NO


----------



## PrimeEagle

This is really impressive, I might have to get this. I wonder how difficult it would be to do something like this for rap/hip-hop? I'm not sure if that would be more difficult or not. I tend to think it might be easier since in rapping you wouldn't have to worry about pitch, falsetto, etc.


----------



## Casiquire

It's at the point where if i heard some of these in the background at the store, i wouldn't even question it. The only thing I'm not sure about is the expressive capabilities. It's getting the realism right, but can it make me *feel* anything? I need to really experiment with it


----------



## David Cuny

ChazC said:


> That Anicute website is a complete mess.
> 
> Even when you click English for the language there’s a heck of a lot of Japanese still displayed.
> 
> From what I can gather, the VST and the only 2 English libraries are the 3 in 1 bundle for $242.37USD, correct?
> 
> The website is that bad it’s almost screaming ‘don’t buy’! Have to say those demo’s sound really good though.


Yes, it's only slightly better than the Dreamtonic website, which is truly awe-inspiring in their lack of accessibility and usability.

I also had a lot of doubts about the ANiCUTE site because of the poor design. I think it comes down to the fact that English isn't their primary language.

That said, I didn't have any issues with the actual purchase or the product.


----------



## David Cuny

KarlHeinz said:


> I could not even reach the site.....
> 
> No, as long as there is no "regular" buy options for outside asia, NO


I'm not sure why you had issues reaching the site.

Unfortunately, ANiCUTE is the only option for purchasing _SynthV _outside of Asia.

However, you can still download the Basic Studio and Lite voices from the Dreamtonics site for free. There are even some AI Lite voices, aithough not in English.


----------



## David Cuny

PrimeEagle said:


> This is really impressive, I might have to get this. I wonder how difficult it would be to do something like this for rap/hip-hop? I'm not sure if that would be more difficult or not. I tend to think it might be easier since in rapping you wouldn't have to worry about pitch, falsetto, etc.


If you search, you can find some examples of rap done with _SynthV_.

IMHO, spoken voice is even more difficult than a sung voice. You actually _do_ need to worry about pitch, and in a different way than with sung vocals.

That is, much of the "expression" in spoken word comes from pitch.

If you're curious, I'd suggest downloading the awesome and free program Praat and record some regular speech or rap vocals. From Praat, you can go to *New | Record mono Sound* to use the built-in recorder. Give the recording a name in the *Name* field, and press *Save to List & Close*. Or if you've got an existing audio, choose *Open | Read from file*.

Then choose the audio from the list, and click the *View and Edit* button. Make sure that *Pitch | Show pitch* is turned on. You might have to zoom in a bit before the spectrogram is visible.

Anyway, in singing, the pitch line at the syllable level is fairly flat, because the singer is trying to match that pitch. But for vocals, the pitch can be all over the place. Manually creating a realistic spoken pitch line in _SynthV_ is not easy.

In fact, the best way is probably what I just described: do the vocal in _Praat_, and then manually draw in the same pitch curve into _SynthV_. And it _still_ won't sound great.

Plus, at this point, there's no native English male vocalist. You can _sort of_ get Eleanor to sound like a male with a lot of tweaking, but a rapper?


----------



## Pier-V

David Cuny said:


> IMHO, spoken voice is even more difficult than a sung voice. You actually _do_ need to worry about pitch, and in a different way than with sung vocals.


+1 Since I discovered Synth V in august I made a fair number of tests, one of them was to reproduce a brief line of dialog performed by a voice actor. Now, keep in mind it was an excerpt from an anime scene, so everything was a bit over the top.
It was a nightmare. The experience itself was incredibly fun and educational, but the results... I prefer not to talk about them lol. One detail that surprised me was how meaningless both reference points on a keyboard and melodic intervals were, and how big and messy the pitch range was even in a very short temporal span.

@PrimeEagle Rap is probably a lot easier than the crazy attempt I made, but still, Synth V isn't officially designed for that kind of behaviour. If you put a lot of effort in you may get decent results, but realistically speaking don't expect a good workflow.
My advice is to check what others were able to achieve on Youtube first, since there are a good numbers of songs and "stress tests" that feature rap excerpts even at high BPM. You can also test those limits yourself with the lite version!


----------



## PrimeEagle

David Cuny said:


> Plus, at this point, there's no native English male vocalist. You can _sort of_ get Eleanor to sound like a male with a lot of tweaking, but a rapper?


Rappers can be female, too.


----------



## David Cuny

PrimeEagle said:


> Rappers can be female, too.


Yep, I should have qualified this. When you hear the examples SynthV "rapping", you'll likely conclude that _she _should _not_ be a rapper - no matter where the "Gender" slider is set to. 

YMMV.

(Edited after noticing the example I listened to was a different voicebank)


----------



## PrimeEagle

Do you have any example links of people's attempt at rap? A quick search on YouTube didn't turn up any results, but maybe I'm not searching for the correct terms.


----------



## Pier-V

This, for example (0:20 non-AI version, 1:30 AI version)


----------



## David Cuny

PrimeEagle said:


> Do you have any example links of people's attempt at rap? A quick search on YouTube didn't turn up any results, but maybe I'm not searching for the correct terms.


There's this example I found on the Dreamtonics forum:



Mind you, I'm not disparaging the effort at all. It's just that the tool isn't really designed for this, so it's a whole lot of work.

If that's your thing, more power to you! 

*Edit*: And by "your thing", I'm referring to micro-editing inside a piano roll and manually drawing in control curves. You know, the _fun_ _stuff_.


----------



## baggage

Eleanor Forte AI Lite is now available


----------



## RobbertZH

baggage said:


> Eleanor Forte AI Lite is now available



Thanks for posting.

I just bought the bundle with Synthesizer V Pro and Eleanor Forte AI on the AnyCute webshop.
After selecting the English language, ordering was simple. 

The next day I received Synthesizer V Pro, but not yet the voice library Eleonor Forte AI, as this voice library is not officially available yet, scheduled to be released on I believe 22 December.

With the lite version, I can already try the program.

What are the limitations of the lite version of the vocal library?

PS: When listening to the various youtube videos, I like the AI version of Eleanor much better as it sounds more grown-up. The original version, sounds more child-like.


----------



## PrimeEagle

Is there any built in support for things like random detuning so that we can layer the same voices together? Or would we have to process that manually?


----------



## Ruffian Price

At least I couldn't find anything like that and had to redraw pitch curves and introduce timing changes to each duplicated part. They can still sound surprisingly similar (and, because of that, phasey) even with that in, with the whole machine learning thing I expected more randomness in the generated takes in general but they're very consistent - blessing and a curse


----------



## David Cuny

PrimeEagle said:


> Is there any built in support for things like random detuning so that we can layer the same voices together? Or would we have to process that manually?


I've attached a Lua script that I started working on for that. It was written for the non-AI version, so it selects alternate phonemes, and randomizes Pitch Deviation on a note-by-note basis.

I wasn't terribly impressed with the results, so I never posted it.

I didn't get around to changing note timing, or modifying the pitch curve, for reasons that are longer than people would want to read. But I might go back and have another try.

You can also find another script here that will modify the expression parameters:









synth-v-scripts/Expressive 2.lua at main · dcuny/synth-v-scripts


Scripts for the Synthesizer V program. Contribute to dcuny/synth-v-scripts development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com





If you run the *Vocal Doubler* script first, and then the *Expression Curve* script, it might get you in the ballpark.

*EDIT: *There were a _lot_ of errors in the script. I've replaced it with a version that works better.


----------



## Pier-V

Huh.



Also, 925 views at the time of writing. Huh.


----------



## SyMTiK

I tried out the free version of Synthesizer V a while back, downloaded Eleanor Forte Lite (English bank) and Chiyu (Chinese bank) 

Was pleasantly surprised with how easy it was to get a usable sound out of it, compared to other softwares. 

Here are two short demo tracks I threw together when I got them. Mind you, I don't know any chinese, I merely typed in gibberish that I thought sounded good hahaha so might the Chiyu demo might not be the best example of its abilities, was pretty impressed with the english though! Not sure it could totally pass as "not" a vocaloid quite yet, still has some of that digital quality that tips it off that its a computer, but its getting very close. Mind you this is pretty much day one playing with the software, but I think that helps showcase how easy it is to use!


----------



## Pier-V

Hi @SyMTiK ! Thanks for sharing your tracks - I like them, they show personality!

Regarding realism, just my two cents: don't let it become a rabbit hole. The world of Vsts should be treated as a science when developed, but as an art when used in a composition. And art, afterall, was never about perfection in the first place (or even about beauty in some cases, but that's a different story) but should rather focus on communicating ideas in a broader sense.
Oh, by the way, I love gibberish vocals - just to give you an idea of how much, I'll say Emi Evans is amongst one of my favourite singers


----------



## YaniDee

We're trying to make humans sound like machines, and machines sound like humans..crazy times!


----------



## David Cuny

RobbertZH said:


> What are the limitations of the lite version of the vocal library?


There are two versions of the Eleanor Forte Lite library, and both the Lite and AI Lite are currently available.

The Lite version is sampled from a single pitch, so the range won't be as versatile as the full version. The range isn't _limited_, it'll just tend to have more pitch shifted than a multi-pitch voice. 

Because of the way that _SynthV_ stores voice information, it won't have the same sort of artifacts that you get through normal pitch shifting, so it won't sound glitchy. It just won't sound as natural as it moves away from the primary register.

There are also restrictions on how the Lite voicebanks can be used commercially. The full voicebanks have no such restriction (although they may have restrictions on the use of the character's image, as it's copyrighted).


----------



## Vlzmusic

YaniDee said:


> We're trying to make humans sound like machines, and machines sound like humans..crazy times!


Please define "times" (wish we could see the first version from 1737):


----------



## YaniDee

Catchy tune..Soon kids will sit around the campfire letting their "smart" phones do the singing. And of course, cakes that sing Happy Birthday. It's a cool novelty, and I actually enjoy listening to some of these songs, but I still prefer humans..


----------



## David Cuny

YaniDee said:


> It's a cool novelty, and I actually enjoy listening to some of these songs, but I still prefer humans..


You're being sarcastic, right? 

Because this is _literally _a forum devoted to virtual instruments, and you're complaining that a virtual instrument isn't as good as the real thing.


----------



## YaniDee

I'm not commenting on which is"better"..I own and use hundreds of VI s. I just don't see myself in a band (how old fashioned!) on stage with a laptop singer. Just my opinion..But, honestly, I don't get the point of having a virtual rapper, or a pseudo Celine Dion. Yes, it's cute and novel, and can probably surpass human capabilities . I own Synthesizer V, but I don't feel like spending tons of time learning phonetics and the subtleties of the human voice, when my next door neighbor can do the job.


----------



## Vlzmusic

YaniDee said:


> I'm not commenting on which is"better"..I own and use hundreds of VI s. I just don't see myself in a band (how old fashioned!) on stage with a laptop singer. Just my opinion..


You have that thing with a human voice, right? Like it's OK to replace string players, piano etc. I don't see myself in any band, for that matter. I want my quiet corner, and my tools.


----------



## PrimeEagle

YaniDee said:


> I'm not commenting on which is"better"..I own and use hundreds of VI s. I just don't see myself in a band (how old fashioned!) on stage with a laptop singer. Just my opinion..But, honestly, I don't get the point of having a virtual rapper, or a pseudo Celine Dion. Yes, it's cute and novel, and can probably surpass human capabilities . I own Synthesizer V, but I don't feel like spending tons of time learning phonetics and the subtleties of the human voice, when my next door neighbor can do the job.


Not everyone has that "next door neighbor" or the resources to hire a singer, especially those that do this as a hobby and not as a profession. Same as all the other virtual instruments.


----------



## Werty

YaniDee said:


> I'm not commenting on which is"better"..I own and use hundreds of VI s. I just don't see myself in a band (how old fashioned!) on stage with a laptop singer. Just my opinion..But, honestly, I don't get the point of having a virtual rapper, or a pseudo Celine Dion. Yes, it's cute and novel, and can probably surpass human capabilities . I own Synthesizer V, but I don't feel like spending tons of time learning phonetics and the subtleties of the human voice, when my next door neighbor can do the job.


yawn, it's all about the context. Just like any other vst, for live purposes I prefer a real singer. But for recording/composing purposes there is space for both (especially if the real singer sucks compared to the vst).


----------



## YaniDee

Vlzmusic said:


> You have that thing with a human voice, right?


----------



## Raphioli

Saw this for the first time but wow. Didn't know this type of technology existed.



Werty said:


> yawn, it's all about the context. Just like any other vst, for live purposes I prefer a real singer. But for recording/composing purposes there is space for both (especially if the real singer sucks compared to the vst).


And I agree with you.
Its the same as V.I.
If you're gonna say "I don't get the point of having a virtual rapper, or a pseudo Celine Dion",
then wants the point of Choir samples by various companies?
Or what's the point of any sample for acoustics instruments?

For "Live", I understand and agree just like Werty.

EDIT: BTW, I wish Choir sample would get this real. I don't think East West's newest choir library still reaches this realism with their world builder. Would want a choir library with this realism!

EDIT2: I'm kinda imagining, what if 8dio released their Studio Vocals series with this tech.
Merethe Soltvedt voice pack would be awesome too! (I know there's Jaeger which has ahh's with great legatos, but with a realistic world builder like this, it would be ground breaking to me  )


----------



## David Cuny

YaniDee said:


> I'm not commenting on which is "better"


It seems to me that's _exactly_ what you've done.

Which is odd, because I don't think that anyone has suggested that a VI voice is superior to an actual person singing.

But you've also _ridiculed _the idea of using VI singers by talking about people using their phones instead of singing, or having singing cakes.



YaniDee said:


> ..I own and use hundreds of VI s. I just don't see myself in a band (how old fashioned!) on stage with a laptop singer. Just my opinion.


To me, you sound to me like the forum member who, whenever someone asks what the best VI violin is, feels compelled to say that an actual violin is the best choice.

Well... _duh_. 

A competent singer - even non-professional - is going to be superior to a synthesized voice.

But that's just my opinion.



YaniDee said:


> But, honestly, I don't get the point of having a virtual rapper, or a pseudo Celine Dion. Yes, it's cute and novel, and can probably surpass human capabilities.


There are literally thousands of people who go to concert starring Vocaloids.

It's not my cup of tea, but a lot of people see it as something other than it being "cute and novel".

Again, you're arguing against using virtual instruments _on a forum devoted to the use of virtual instruments._



YaniDee said:


> I own Synthesizer V, but I don't feel like spending tons of time learning phonetics and the subtleties of the human voice, when my next door neighbor can do the job.


And this differs from _other _VIs in what way?


----------



## YaniDee

David Cuny said:


> Again, you're arguing against using virtual instruments _on a forum devoted to the use of virtual instruments._


Did you read the part where I wrote "I own and use literally hundreds of VI instruments" ?
I don't have to like every technology out there (read the title of this post). As this is a forum for discussion, I thought I was allowed to express an opinion. It's not virtual singers in particular I'm criticizing, but the head long rush to digitize and virtualize just about every aspect of human activity.
Call me old fashioned and nostalgic, but I admire the achievements of previous generations. I honestly don't feel that all our digital tools and shortcuts have produced vastly superior results. Once again, that is my opinion, based on my aesthetic...I am certainly not advocating abandoning VIs or any other technologies.
It's obvious that people replying to this post don't share my opnions, and that's fine.
In any case, I have been on this forum for several years, and have avoided any conflict, so say what you like, I'm done.


----------



## Werty

YaniDee said:


> Did you read the part where I wrote "I own and use literally hundreds of VI instruments" ?
> I don't have to like every technology out there (read the title of this post). As this is a forum for discussion, I thought I was allowed to express an opinion. It's not virtual singers in particular I'm criticizing, but the head long rush to digitize and virtualize just about every aspect of human activity.
> Call me old fashioned and nostalgic, but I admire the achievements of previous generations. I honestly don't feel that all our digital tools and shortcuts have produced vastly superior results. Once again, that is my opinion, based on my aesthetic...I am certainly not advocating abandoning VIs or any other technologies.
> It's obvious that people replying to this post don't share my opnions, and that's fine.
> In any case, I have been on this forum for several years, and have avoided any conflict, so say what you like, I'm done.


we are disagreeing politely, so that's all good!


----------



## Pier-V

@YaniDee I don't mind people having different opinions on the same topic at all, as long as:

- Constructive criticism is provided OR
- A healthy, lighthearted or even ironic tone is used

So, there's no need to feel personally attacked, I even think some of the points you made are interesting. Just keep in mind that not everyone has the same priorities - for example, I can close an eye if something is not perfect as long as it provides a fresh perspective on a subject.

Another thing I emphatise with is the fear that these products could potentially be harmful to some jobs in the long run, but that doesn't mean I necessairily agree. Actually, I honestly think that will never be the case, since a real voice and a synthesized one are two very different things, and I'm glad since that opens up so many new, experimental ways to create music!

Hope that clears any possible misunderstanding.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Vocal synths have enabled a ton of bedroom producers to develop their own personal and experimental takes on pop music with no budget required. It’s an incredible tool that’s enabled so much creativity. People aren't listening to it to replace what they get from human vocalists, it's become its own thing entirely. If you don’t get it, you don’t get it.


I get it and I dislike it intensely.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I get it and I dislike it intensely.


On the other hand, I have no problem with sampled vocal libraries (in fact they're some of the most fun things sampling can do; I can't get enough of the Take 5 sounds in Omnisphere, for example). But they're new sounds, or background sounds, not machines trying to steal the soul of humanity.

Listen to, say, anything by Annie Lennox.

Then listen to that ridiculous thing at the beginning. Explain to me why I shouldn't find it beyond depressing.


----------



## SyMTiK

I personally view vocaloids more as their own thing, I enjoy them for what they are - a digital instrument capable of singing. I don't think I would ever "replace" a real singer with a vocaloid unless I am specifically trying to create a vocaloid song. They work great in Electronic music, I first fell in love with what Vocaloids could do because of Porter Robinson's use of them in his album Worlds. Really painted this surreal digital landscape that he was going for and was used in a very beautiful way. They are also a great tool for someone like myself who isn't great at singing to be able to quickly create demos of songs I come up with, to then have an actual singer sing on, kinda the same way I would approach writing with samples if I had the intention of getting live players on it.


----------



## Pier-V

SyMTiK said:


> I first fell in love with what Vocaloids could do because of Porter Robinson's use of them in his album Worlds


I see you are a man of culture


----------



## SyMTiK

Pier-V said:


> I see you are a man of culture


Still one of my top 5 albums of all time! listened to it on repeat every day in high school!


----------



## David Cuny

First, sorry if you see this as being antagonistic. That wasn't the intent, and I apologize that it came off as such.

I suppose my use of _italics_ isn't helpful in conveying tone, either.

As I said, I was genuinely puzzled by your reaction, and was trying to explain my confusion.



YaniDee said:


> Did you read the part where I wrote "I own and use literally hundreds of VI instruments" ?



Yes, I did. I even quoted it. 

That's why I thought it was odd that it appeared you were singling out vocal synthesis, especially since the arguments were making were equally applicable to just about any VI.



YaniDee said:


> I don't have to like every technology out there (read the title of this post). As this is a forum for discussion, I thought I was allowed to express an opinion. It's not virtual singers in particular I'm criticizing, but the head long rush to digitize and virtualize just about every aspect of human activity.


I thought the thread was started to discuss how Synthesizer V was an improvement over Vocaloids.

If people dislike the SynthV voices for what they are - that's cool. There are plenty of places they fail to be convincing or suitably expressive.

I don't have a problem with you expressing an opinion. As I said, I was genuinely puzzled about what it was about voices that differentiated them from other instruments.

I see most VIs as enabling technologies, rather than competing. That is, they enable people to create music which would not have otherwise been created.

Sure, there are people who will use VIs instead of the real thing. I suspect they wouldn't have hired out for the real thing, but that's based on anecdotal evidence, so I'll be happy to concede being wrong about that.



YaniDee said:


> Call me old fashioned and nostalgic, but I admire the achievements of previous generations. I honestly don't feel that all our digital tools and shortcuts have produced vastly superior results. Once again, that is my opinion, based on my aesthetic...I am certainly not advocating abandoning VIs or any other technologies.


I'm not sure that _anyone_ is arguing that virtual voices are superior.

I'm certainly not, and I've said as much.



YaniDee said:


> It's obvious that people replying to this post don't share my opinions, and that's fine.
> In any case, I have been on this forum for several years, and have avoided any conflict, so say what you like, I'm done.


As I said, I wasn't trying to be antagonistic, I was genuinely puzzled why you would pick _this_ particular hill to make a stand on.

And yes, this _is_ intended to be a discussion, not censorship.


----------



## Raphioli

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Listen to, say, anything by Annie Lennox.
> 
> Then listen to that ridiculous thing at the beginning.


I personally felt the same way when listening to a sampled orchestra, and then listen to the real thing after that (especially live. not on speakers).

EDIT: 
To clarify, nothing can beat the real thing. I think everyone can agree on that.

Wether its sampled instruments or vocals, I consider them the same. 
Meaning, I don't particularly hate a specific category of sampled instruments (including the thing at the beginning).
Regarding "machines trying to steal the soul of humanity", I personally don't differentiate human voices and instruments played live in that regard. Theres lots of human soul/experience (not just as a musician) being poured-in(?) to an instrument, like, when watching/listening to Herbie Hancock playing the piano or Yo-yo Ma playing the cello.
And especially blown instruments because you're using your breath to make the instruments sing. Your using your breath which you need to also use to live. Basically pouring in your life in to it.

Sorry don't mean to be philosophical haha xD
Anyways, that's my personal take on it. Its fine to have different opinions.
Whats the fun if everyone had the same opinion. Music wouldn't probably be this diverse if we did


----------



## Vlzmusic

@YaniDee 
Wow, you have got quite a treatment in this thread.  I actually didn`t find anything radical in what you say, just amusing. I hope you don`t take anything personally, and feel welcome here, I am sure everyone would agree you are.

Thanks for the clip  and you see, that`s one definition of a robot. I have a friend and colleague who is into 3D art of different human like figures etc. And I share the passion - so for me, digital characters should have beautiful and artistic voices, looks etc. BTW we are working on a small VR experience which is supposed to be out before Christmas - just a relaxing slideshow of stereoscopic images, and my soundtrack underneath - and that`s the point, we don`t settle for robotic, its not the goal (unless intended by the context) we strive for artistic expression in purely digital form.


----------



## chocobitz825

Like or dislike it, it’s a future perhaps worth investing in as a composer.

I imagine in 20 years at least, this current generation of children raised on CGI animation will grow up and end up in a musical environment where some of the biggest pop stars are 100% digita, multilingual, and funded by major corporations. Like a walking, talking, singing, no-break-needing coca-cola ad. For a while someone will need to write their music.

The visual side of this same conundrum is advancing as well...

https://www.trendhunter.com/slideshow/virtual-model


----------



## Tim_Wells

I have NO doubt that Synthesizer V would work for background vocal on some of my tracks. It would have to be layered in - underneath real vocals. 

I've done this with some sample libraries to varying degrees of success. The Synthesizer V demos I've heard from regular folks here at VI-C sound more natural and convincing to me than the sample library stuff.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Raphioli said:


> I personally felt the same way when listening to a sampled orchestra, and then listen to the real thing after that (especially live. not on speakers).
> 
> EDIT:
> To clarify, nothing can beat the real thing. I think everyone can agree on that.
> 
> Wether its sampled instruments or vocals, I consider them the same.
> Meaning, I don't particularly hate a specific category of sampled instruments (including the thing at the beginning).
> Regarding "machines trying to steal the soul of humanity", I personally don't differentiate human voices and instruments played live in that regard. Theres lots of human soul/experience (not just as a musician) being poured-in(?) to an instrument, like, when watching/listening to Herbie Hancock playing the piano or Yo-yo Ma playing the cello.
> And especially blown instruments because you're using your breath to make the instruments sing. Your using your breath which you need to also use to live. Basically pouring in your life in to it.
> 
> Sorry don't mean to be philosophical haha xD
> Anyways, that's my personal take on it. Its fine to have different opinions.
> Whats the fun if everyone had the same opinion. Music wouldn't probably be this diverse if we did



I can't say I disagree with any of that, but somehow voice feels like a different instrument.

It's not rational for me to like sampled choirs, the Omnisphere Take 5 programs, the vox in my Kurzweil K2500, even that Realivox Blue library some guy we know came out with... while at the same time feeling like this thing is a soul-eater.

That's just my reaction as a member of the species.


----------



## Pier-V

This track broke all records, both in terms of realism and in terms of how deep it was hidden in the dark side of Youtube.
From now on, my personal nickname for this "mature" version of Eleanor Forte will be _Neo Avanna 2.0 the revenge_, since yes, she is capable in various genres, but she really shines in soft, slow, melodic passages (also, if you disagree prove me otherwise with another video!). 
Please, tell me if this constant demo sharing gets annoying - meanwhile, I really think it's worth linking the track:


----------



## chocobitz825

Pier-V said:


> This track broke all records, both in terms of realism and in terms of how deep it was hidden in the dark side of Youtube.
> From now on, my personal nickname for this "mature" version of Eleanor Forte will be _Neo Avanna 2.0 the revenge_, since yes, she is capable in various genres, but she really shines in soft, slow, melodic passages (also, if you disagree prove me otherwise with another video!).
> Please, tell me if this constant demo sharing gets annoying - meanwhile, I really think it's worth linking the track:




In its current form it sounds like a very vanilla session singer who was told not to sing with too much style. That’s incredible really. Assuming someone wanted to put in the time, there is probably a way to program more iconic pop style into these things down the line. Especially if someone felt there was financial incentive to do so.


Crazy future ahead.


----------



## Getsumen

Pier-V said:


> This track broke all records, both in terms of realism and in terms of how deep it was hidden in the dark side of Youtube.
> From now on, my personal nickname for this "mature" version of Eleanor Forte will be _Neo Avanna 2.0 the revenge_, since yes, she is capable in various genres, but she really shines in soft, slow, melodic passages (also, if you disagree prove me otherwise with another video!).
> Please, tell me if this constant demo sharing gets annoying - meanwhile, I really think it's worth linking the track:



Damn that's actually insane. Could reasonably pass for a real singer for certain genres that have this sorta style.


----------



## baggage

Here's a test of Eleanor Forte AI Lite's Auto Pitch tuning using Synthesizer V Studio Pro. Obviously it could be better, especially with the ornamentals, but this only took a few minutes.


----------



## Saxer

It's still like Pinoccio wants to be a real child one day... but it's damn close already.


----------



## Pier-V

baggage said:


> Auto Pitch tuning


I've not tried Eleanor Forte AI Lite yet, but I'm planning to buy both Saki AI, Eleanor Forte AI and Synth V Studio Pro anyway. So, if I understand correctly, this would be similiar to the "out of the box" test I made some posts ago with the Spirited Away excerpt, right? If that's the case, then this is impressive.


----------



## baggage

Pier-V said:


> I've not tried Eleanor Forte AI Lite yet, but I'm planning to buy both Saki AI, Eleanor Forte AI and Synth V Studio Pro anyway. So, if I understand correctly, this would be similiar to the "out of the box" test I made some posts ago with the Spirited Away excerpt, right? If that's the case, then this is impressive.


yeah, and do try Eleanor Forte AI Lite out, it's only 13.9 Megabytes in size


----------



## Pier-V

baggage said:


> yeah, and do try Eleanor Forte AI Lite out, it's only 13.9 Megabytes in size


I followed your advice and it was definitely worth it. I could only test the voicebanks on some simple transcriptions I made in the past weeks, and yet it was enough to notice a general improvement on all fronts.

In addition to the already discussed auto pitch tuning, I also noticed a much better vowel morphing algorhithm, and that is _extremely_ important given the vast amount of vowels appearing in English language and its "flowing" nature, for lack of better words.

I've also made some additional research on the upcoming voicebank *Anri*, and I've discovered that it's developed by a company named Audiologie. On their official website, under the section "about us", there's a faq where it's clearly stated that the *Lite* version will be available on December 18. I don't know if the information is up to date, but given how much I'm re-evaluating Anri in recent times it might be worth keeping an eye on it.


----------



## baggage

Audiologie released an updated version of the ANRI demo song "Programmed to Love" using Gen 4 Synthesizer V


----------



## Vlzmusic

Hmm, I am not fond of her way doing Ee's in some places, like free, or believe, or me, but splendid apart from that 👌


----------



## Tralen

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I can't say I disagree with any of that, but somehow voice feels like a different instrument.
> 
> It's not rational for me to like sampled choirs, the Omnisphere Take 5 programs, the vox in my Kurzweil K2500, even that Realivox Blue library some guy we know came out with... while at the same time feeling like this thing is a soul-eater.
> 
> That's just my reaction as a member of the species.


I don't know if the majority of music produced and listened today has any soul to be eaten.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Tralen said:


> I don't know if the majority of music produced and listened today has any soul to be eaten.



I want to disagree with you very much.


----------



## Tralen

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I want to disagree with you very much.


Well, a better way to put it:

A souless vocaloid, in the hands of someone like you, a soulful musician, will have more soul than a generic pop singer in the hands of a souless producer.


----------



## Casiquire

Tralen said:


> I don't know if the majority of music produced and listened today has any soul to be eaten.


Well there's the big budget stuff distilled down for the lowest common denominator, which might account for the most radio play but realistically only like .001% of musicians are part of that elite circle, and then there's an endless sea of smaller niche musicians who vary from incredibly talented and passionate to mediocre or attempting to be part of that elite, and everything in between. I feel like the issue today is less about lack of talent or lack of good music, and more about breadth of options drowning out the voices you're looking for


----------



## Tralen

Casiquire said:


> Well there's the big budget stuff distilled down for the lowest common denominator, which might account for the most radio play but realistically only like .001% of musicians are part of that elite circle, and then there's an endless sea of smaller niche musicians who vary from incredibly talented and passionate to mediocre or attempting to be part of that elite, and everything in between. I feel like the issue today is less about lack of talent or lack of good music, and more about breadth of options drowning out the voices you're looking for


I agree, "majority" was the wrong term.

I guess my point is that the soul, as Nick puts it, is already there in the music that actually cares for it, either in the people that create that music or/and in the people that listens.

So the vocaloid doesn't need a soul, she can borrow ours.


----------



## soulofsound

Tralen said:


> I agree, "majority" was the wrong term.
> 
> I guess my point is that the soul, as Nick puts it, is already there in the music that actually cares for it, either in the people that create that music or/and in the people that listens.
> 
> So the vocaloid doesn't need a soul, she can borrow ours.


Yes very much. AI can make suggestions but can't make decisions, when those decisions need to appeal to humans. Human perception and discernment will always be the final judge of what is worthy art and what is not. As soon as art becomes predictable, people will find it boring and look for something else. And then the algorithm will always have to catch up.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

soulofsound said:


> Yes very much. AI can make suggestions but can't make decisions, when those decisions need to appeal to humans. Human perception and discernment will always be the final judge of what is worthy art and what is not. As soon as art becomes predictable, people will find it boring and look for something else. And then the algorithm will always have to catch up.


What if the machine learning incorporates mass targeted blind A/B testing (on large numbers of humans---preferably not enslaved for the purpose, though brain-scanning, electrodes, or other machine-human interfaces (maybe even implanted) might not be so bad)? 

How much soul can a song convey just through those aspects of its musical vocabulary that can be translated into midi? But there's already a bit of soul in the vocalists these voices are based on. Ideally there will eventually also be sliders (or a hypercube) for emotions (perhaps relativized to style, culture, or a stream of models) and mixtures of emotions and/or for timbres... though for timbre there are tools like Melodyne, etc.


----------



## Nando Florestan

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> sliders (or a hypercube) for emotions


Yeah yeah but we already know if you push the "heartbreak" slider all the way to the right the A.I. is going to come up with a bad clone of Tchaikovsky's 6th, so who cares.


----------



## soulofsound

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> What if the machine learning incorporates mass targeted blind A/B testing (on large numbers of humans---preferably not enslaved for the purpose, though brain-scanning, electrodes, or other machine-human interfaces (maybe even implanted) might not be so bad)?
> 
> How much soul can a song convey just through those aspects of its musical vocabulary that can be translated into midi? But there's already a bit of soul in the vocalists these voices are based on. Ideally there will eventually also be sliders (or a hypercube) for emotions (perhaps relativized to style, culture, or a stream of models) and mixtures of emotions and/or for timbres... though for timbre there are tools like Melodyne, etc.


AI can do incredible things already, like the Schubert Unfinished symphony. But my point is the computer will never know what is good and what isn't. Only we do.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

soulofsound said:


> AI can do incredible things already, like the Schubert Unfinished symphony. But my point is the computer will never know what is good and what isn't. Only we do.


It can learn what we (the majority of a given target population) will think is good---and know it better than any individual. With extensive and precise enough data (biometric, brain scans, precise history of listening times, internet activity, and other forms of behavior), it may even be able to know what an individual likes better than that individual does consciously (or is willing to openly admit and affirm). As to determining what is "good" in the sense of some balance between conforming to the perfection of a set of styles and innovation, or ethical relation to the empirical or rational universe, AI potentially has a massive advantage over humans (imagine asking technologically advanced aliens... who have probably already gone all cyborg (or all AI), appreciating patterns and relations within empirical reality far beyond our limited brains).


----------



## soulofsound

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> It can learn what we (the majority of a given target population) will think is good---and know it better than any individual. With extensive and precise enough data (biometric, brain scans, precise history of listening times, internet activity, and other forms of behavior), it may even be able to know what an individual likes better than that individual does consciously (or is willing to openly admit and affirm). As to determining what is "good" in the sense of some balance between conforming to the perfection of a set of styles and innovation, or ethical relation to the empirical or rational universe, AI potentially has a massive advantage over humans (imagine asking technologically advanced aliens... who have probably already gone all cyborg (or all AI), appreciating patterns and relations within empirical reality far beyond our limited brains).


That is all true, but you miss my point. Only humanity decides what is good, and it changes all the time. So whether AI can learn what we value, is therefore always one step behind. All the cyborg nonsense also only serves to enhance human traits, not replace them. But i don't want to go off-topic here. Just understand my point that computers, however much they can achieve, will never replace humans. Unless you think humans are wholly deterministic, which i won't argue cause that is a dead-end existential discussion.


----------



## PrimeEagle

soulofsound said:


> That is all true, but you miss my point. Only humanity decides what is good, and it changes all the time. So whether AI can learn what we value, is therefore always one step behind. All the cyborg nonsense also only serves to enhance human traits, not replace them. But i don't want to go off-topic here. Just understand my point that computers, however much they can achieve, will never replace humans. Unless you think humans are wholly deterministic, which i won't argue cause that is a dead-end existential discussion.


Not necessarily. If an AI could see the patterns and understand why the things we value changes, then not only could it keep up with them, but it could predict them and be one step ahead.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

PrimeEagle said:


> Not necessarily. If an AI could see the patterns and understand why the things we value changes, then not only could it keep up with them, but it could predict them and be one step ahead.


Or figure out how to influence what humans value by regulating their feeds, to guide humanity towards greater soul.

Two major issues with fully modeling humanity: 1. even putting aside quantum randomness, humanity (even individual human brains in their totality) is too complex for classical computers to fully model in a reasonable amount of time, and it's not clear whether there are methods by which quantum computing (or other nonclassical computing, if we discover new physical laws) could provide an exponential speed-up; 2. there will almost certainly still be some irreducible randomness that can't be fully modeled in advance, some degree of error that lets chaos through.

So for the predictable future, AI will still rely on extensive human experimentation. Biomatter will still be in the loops. Each of us at the center of our own sets, perhaps substituting for the yearning to believe one's identity-group (of body parts and brain activity or of other collectives) is at the center of the universe.

To get back on topic---relative to other instruments, vocals convey subtle emotion and subjectively charged nuances that can't easily be fully captured by simple volume, dark/bright timbre, etc modulation. (Though many instruments are similar to the voice, and scientists theorize that that similarity is a large part of what gives them their appeal and expressiveness.) AI could excel at modelling these with machine learning tested against human volunteers. To the extent this helps bring us closer to our AI-driven cyborg future (with automation liberating most of humanity from de facto forced labor, as well as helping to rectify our negative cognitive biases and self-destructive behaviors), it is a path towards soul. With a massively distributed quantum (AI) Singularity fueled by fusion, a true godling might finally be born on Earth, capable of greater music than we can imagine.


----------



## David Cuny

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> To get back on topic---relative to other instruments, vocals convey subtle emotion and subjectively charged nuances that can't easily be fully captured by simple volume, dark/bright timbre, etc modulation.


I thought the topic was vocal synthesis, not the creation of a machine capable of generating music with human "soul".

All learning - _especially _machine learning - is biased based on the training data. If I wanted to truly _unbiased_ music, I'd listen to aleatoric music created with fair dice. Which is exactly what I _don't_ want to listen to. 

Even if you didn't want to use synthetic vocals for your final music, I'll suggest that they're of value for mocking up music. For example, it's helpful to hear the actual words when mocking up harmony parts, instead of "_Ooooh_" or "_Aaaaah"_.

My own experience - and I'm a mere amateur - is that it's not only more fun, but more inspiring to write parts and hear them sung back. It's like the difference between mocking a string part up with a library that supports only legatos (with lots of velocity layers, of course) _vs._ a library that supports more varied articulations. Having a better tool at my disposal allows me to try more creative things that I wouldn't have done with the different library.

And on a practical basis, it helps validate the work before the performance. For example, consider a case where you have having two interweaving lines, with different lyrics. Sure, it looks good _on paper_, and sounds fine _on the piano_. But when performed, is it really clear and intelligible?

Being able to mock it up with something that's closer to the actual performance means that you can make adjustments to the melody and lyric to make sure it works as intended.

And isn't that the goal here? Not to replace the composer with AI, but to supply tools help us create better music?


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

David Cuny said:


> I thought the topic was vocal synthesis, not the creation of a machine capable of generating music with human "soul".
> 
> All learning - _especially _machine learning - is biased based on the training data. If I wanted to truly _unbiased_ music, I'd listen to aleatoric music created with fair dice. Which is exactly what I _don't_ want to listen to.
> 
> Even if you didn't want to use synthetic vocals for your final music, I'll suggest that they're of value for mocking up music. For example, it's helpful to hear the actual words when mocking up harmony parts, instead of "_Ooooh_" or "_Aaaaah"_.
> 
> My own experience - and I'm a mere amateur - is that it's not only more fun, but more inspiring to write parts and hear them sung back. It's like the difference between mocking a string part up with a library that supports only legatos (with lots of velocity layers, of course) _vs._ a library that supports more varied articulations. Having a better tool at your disposal allows me to try more creative things that you wouldn't have done with the lesser library.
> 
> And on a practical basis, it helps validate the work before the performance. For example, consider a case where you have having two interweaving lines, with different lyrics. Sure, it looks good _on paper_, and sounds fine _on the piano_. But when performed, is it really clear and intelligible?
> 
> Being able to mock it up with something that's closer to the actual performance means that you can make adjustments to the melody and lyric to make sure it works as intended.
> 
> And isn't that the goal here? Not to replace the composer with AI, but to supply tools help us create better music?


Synthesizer V: "for composing and publishing songs with virtual singers"; "The sky’s the limit."

Emvoice One: "There are three big use cases for Emvoice One: bedroom producers who aren't in a position to record a real singer; professional producers who want to add draft lyrics to a track to better express what they want to a real singer; and totally off-the-wall creative uses that wouldn't be achievable by traditional methods.

We also think Emvoice One could work very well as a backing vocalist or, in the future, an ensemble/chorus vocal generator for the billions of people who can't hire an entire room full of singers!"

Sure, what's (widely) available now might be better suited for mockups / demos than for most applications---partly because of that lack of adaptive nuance, and partly because the (widely available) software still doesn't seem to have fully mastered translating arbitrary phrases consistently into natural sounding sung English. However, a lot of it does seem usable, especially if you don't need the vocal nuances to intelligently match the emotional (etc) context of the lyrics. But that will change....

But yes, these are tools for composers. As a vocalist and lyricist, I'm also interested in software like this for morphing other voices with my own (using Morph2) and for generating backing vocals or additional vocal parts. Especially while the pandemic's still going on.


----------



## szczaw

Here's Lucy. I bought synth V, but I can't run it in win 7  

View attachment King Beneath no crunch.mp3


----------



## soulofsound

PrimeEagle said:


> Not necessarily. If an AI could see the patterns and understand why the things we value changes, then not only could it keep up with them, but it could predict them and be one step ahead.


Good luck with that theory.


----------



## baggage

The First Demo for SOLARIA AI has been released!


here's the original song written and sung by the voice provider for SOLARIA, Emma Rowley, for comparison


----------



## PrimeEagle

Do they have any English male voices yet? Is it just Eleanor, Anri, and Solaria for English so far? Their website is so confusing.


----------



## baggage

PrimeEagle said:


> Do they have any English male voices yet? Is it just Eleanor, Anri, and Solaria for English so far? Their website is so confusing.


not yet, but at least one is in development


----------



## szczaw

Insane, I’m even more pissed off now. There's probably not much chance to get classical / operatic voice bank.


----------



## PrimeEagle

baggage said:


> not yet, but at least one is in development


Which one?


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

szczaw said:


> Insane, I’m even more pissed off now. There's probably not much chance to get classical / operatic voice bank.


They're a Japanese company focused on the Japanese and, secondarily, Chinese market. Their English language marketing does not seem misleading. If an English company focused on the Anglophone market failed to immediately provide Mandarin or Spanish, would you call it "insane" and get angry? (Or if an Italian company started out only doing Italian and similar vowel-heavy languages, since consonant-dense languages like English are apparently harder to do well?)

Even for Anglophone companies, opera tends to be extremely low on the list of priorities. (With the possible exception of certain European countries where English is widely taught. If the hypothetical Italian company only wanted to do operatic vocals in Italian, I wouldn't be "pissed off" at them or call it "insane"....)


----------



## David Cuny

PrimeEagle said:


> Which [English language male voicebank]?


There's only been a short snippet released, in this video that was linked earlier in this thread:



I'm not thrilled by the voice, but I'll wait and see.


----------



## szczaw

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> They're a Japanese company focused on the Japanese and, secondarily, Chinese market. Their English language marketing does not seem misleading. If an English company focused on the Anglophone market failed to immediately provide Mandarin or Spanish, would you call it "insane" and get angry?


By 'insane' I meant how good their technology is. I'm angry because I can't run their software in win 7. It's not their fault as their website clearly states the os requirements. The free version however works in win 7, which misled me.


----------



## David Cuny

szczaw said:


> There's probably not much chance to get classical / operatic voice bank.


Well, if you think there's enough demand for it, you could do it yourself.

I'm not entirely kidding - that's what the people at Eclipsed Sounds appear to have done with SOLARIA. They'd been involved in the Vocaloid community, and saw an opportunity to enter the market with their own voicebank.

So they created an LLC, came to an agreement with Dreamtonics, got the vocal talent onboard, did an Indigogo fundraiser, threw in their own money to make sure it would hit the funding goal, and made the recordings. Dreamtonics is doing the voicebank encoding (the details are under an NDA), and Eclipsed Sounds will be marketing the voicebank when it's completed.

But is there sufficient demand for a synthetic classical singer? 

You might want to talk to Zero-G about that. They released _Prima_ and _Tonio_, based on classical singers for Vocaloid. I don't think they were best-sellers for them.


----------



## szczaw

David Cuny said:


> Well, if you think there's enough demand for it, you could do it yourself.


That's totally out of my area of expertise. I'd like to see EW, OT or someone of that caliber doing voice banks.


----------



## baggage




----------



## Wally Garten

Sorry if this has been answered somewhere earlier in the thread, but -- as I am just seeing this -- does Synthesizer V come in AU form, or is it just standalone software? I can't really tell from the website.


----------



## PrimeEagle

szczaw said:


> That's totally out of my area of expertise. I'd like to see EW, OT or someone of that caliber doing voice banks.


It would be very cool to have this technology applied to other genres, like opera, rap, choral, etc.


----------



## PrimeEagle

Is there a way to purchase Anri? When I look at the Anicute website, it says "out of stock".


----------



## Pier-V

I've finally bought both the Pro version of SynthV and Eleanor/Saki AI voicebanks. The "quality" rendering function has definitely a more pristine timbre (I've mainly noticed a larger amount of upper overtones) and the auto pitch tuning function was a pleasant surprise.

The latter is probably where a good chunk of the work made by the neural network goes, and let me tell you that just looking at the curious shapes it produces gives me the impression of being irradiated with knowledge. This product has a learning curve but, overall, I'm really satisfied at the moment - no more demos made with the Lite versions from now on!

I've just one minor complaint: I hope in a future update it will be possible to automate tempo more freely... Unless I'm still missing something, I've not been able to change BPM every quaver or semi-quaver. This may seem redundant but it's actually really important to create a realistic sense of rubato in some genres!

@PrimeEagle The Anicute shop states that the Pro voicebank is still in the pre-order phase, so I think it's not officially released yet. The company working on it, Audiologie, said the Lite version of the voicebank will be released the 18th of December (check the paragraph "_Are there any plans for creating a Lite voice database for ANRI?_"):









About Us


Frequently asked questions about AUDIOLOGIE.




audiologie.us


----------



## David Cuny

Wally Garten said:


> Sorry if this has been answered somewhere earlier in the thread, but -- as I am just seeing this -- does Synthesizer V come in AU form, or is it just standalone software? I can't really tell from the website.


There is a stand-alone version and a VSTi.

I don't believe there is an AU version available.

*Edit:* Logic users rejoice! *Gaffable* reports there is.


----------



## PrimeEagle

Pier-V said:


> @PrimeEagle The Anicute shop states that the Pro voicebank is still in the pre-order phase, so I think it's not officially released yet. The company working on it, Audiologie, said the Lite version of the voicebank will be released the 18th of December (check the paragraph "_Are there any plans for creating a Lite voice database for ANRI?_"):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About Us
> 
> 
> Frequently asked questions about AUDIOLOGIE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> audiologie.us


Oh okay, I thought I'd still be able to pre-order it but I guess pre-orders stopped at a certain point. So Eleanor is the only English voice available for purchase currently?


----------



## Pier-V

I know as much as you do, unfortunately, but if Anri is actually released this month I hope we will be able to get a small discount during the first two weeks as it was the case with Eleanor AI (something like an early bird offer). I'm really interested in Anri, too, since the voice reminds me a lot of the "previous" Eleanor Forte Lite.


----------



## Werty

Solaria sounds decent but very boring.


----------



## Wally Garten

David Cuny said:


> There is a stand-alone version and a VSTi.
> 
> I don't believe there is an AU version available.


Gotcha. Logic users, perpetually:


----------



## cnogradi

Seems there is a Eleanor AI + Synth V Pro bundle available here: https://www.anicute.com/product/019b81df-5048-458b-b00a-3033921a4d0e. Is this what others have gotten?


----------



## Pier-V

cnogradi said:


> Seems there is a Eleanor AI + Synth V Pro bundle available here: https://www.anicute.com/product/019b81df-5048-458b-b00a-3033921a4d0e. Is this what others have gotten?


Yes, that's exactly how I bought them!


----------



## ip20

David Cuny said:


>




Does this Chinese voice bank have a Lite free version like the others discussed in this thread?


----------



## David Cuny

ip20 said:


> Does this Chinese voice bank have a Lite free version like the others discussed in this thread?


Not that I can see.

Interestingly, the voicebank was first created for UTAU, although apparently never released.


----------



## ip20

David Cuny said:


> Not that I can see.
> 
> Interestingly, the voicebank was first created for UTAU, although apparently never released.


Thank you. That’s too bad, I like what I heard on that demo.


----------



## Anthony

David Cuny said:


> There is a stand-alone version and a VSTi.


Does a VSTi (plugin) come with the demo version?


----------



## Gaffable

Wally Garten said:


> Sorry if this has been answered somewhere earlier in the thread, but -- as I am just seeing this -- does Synthesizer V come in AU form, or is it just standalone software? I can't really tell from the website.


Yes, there is an AU version of the plug-in. Here's a screenshot of the options available in the macOS installer:


----------



## Wally Garten

Gaffable said:


> Yes, there is an AU version of the plug-in. Here's a screenshot of the options available in the macOS installer:


Oooh, thank you!


----------



## Vlzmusic

Well... My first hour with Anri, and to say I am blown away, would be an understatement . Considering I have not even asked her to sing yet . As I am wrapping up sounds and music for our VR thingie, the idea of using some text-to-speech was brought up. I have long history with the tools, but I just hate that "news broadcasting" or "customer service" vibe they bring to everything you render with them. Then I looked at my new shiny Anri and Eleanor, at thought: "What if...?"

In short - the guys behind Synth V and the voicebank are pure geniuses. Suddenly, after years of being considered the weak link, the human voice VI has suddenly become more advanced than any instrument lib or plugin.


----------



## Pier-V

@Vlzmusic That excerpt really made me smile, in a good way. For those who are not familiar with normal speech emulation, be aware that it's way more complicated than what it looks at first glance. Did you find it easy to automate the pitch deviation function?


----------



## Vlzmusic

Pier-V said:


> @Vlzmusic That excerpt really made me smile, in a good way. For those who are not familiar with normal speech emulation, be aware that it's way more complicated than what it looks at first glance. Did you find it easy to automate the pitch deviation function?


Thanks!  It needs some work, but I am in heaven, since the engine reaction to most of the tweaking is very rewarding, unlike your regular midi massaging in VSTi`s. It has tons of controls, some are very very clever, the potential is stupendous.


----------



## Pier-V

I couldn't agree more! The thing I find most fascinating is how the engine is able to look both at what happens after AND before any editing... This is what I mean: if, for example, a note or a parameter is edited, SynthV makes small adjustments to what happens both before and after the edited part to make sure the transition is as smooth as possible.

The voicebanks are extremely small in size. The program itself is not heavy on ram or cpu. The rendering after any edit is extremely fast, nearly in real time. Sometimes I really wonder where the results come from, it seems black magic  The best analogy that comes to mind is this:

Regular midi editing feels like those games where everything is prerendered and predetermined, while SynthV feels more like those games with a really solid physics engine where everything you do has real consequences on the environment and is extremely unpredictable, but in a very enjoyable fashion. It's basically impossible to get bored.


----------



## PrimeEagle

Where were you able to get Anri from?

EDIT: Never mind, I found it. It's here in case anyone else is looking.


----------



## Vlzmusic

PrimeEagle said:


> Where were you able to get Anri from?
> 
> EDIT: Never mind, I found it. It's here in case anyone else is looking.


It is indeed, but in all fairness I took my pre-order on Anicute, and the experience with them was perfectly fine.


----------



## baggage

New Update - Cross Language Singing Synthesis


----------



## Werty

baggage said:


> New Update - Cross Language Singing Synthesis



future is bright, I like Ms Forte, I don't like Solaria or the male voice, but my goodness, all sound so realistic and the potential is huge.


----------



## Vlzmusic

baggage said:


> New Update - Cross Language Singing Synthesis



I'll be damned... And I did want to get her despite not using Japanese


----------



## RobbertZH

baggage said:


> New Update - Cross Language Singing Synthesis


Interesting. This makes the choice of vocalists immediately larger.

I have recently bought the PRO version of SynthV from AniCute.
How can I get the update of SynthV Pro?


----------



## Tim_Wells

Werty said:


> future is bright, I like Ms Forte, I don't like Solaria or the male voice, but my goodness, all sound so realistic and the potential is huge.


I agree, except I thought the male voice was good.


----------



## cnogradi

Go


RobbertZH said:


> Interesting. This makes the choice of vocalists immediately larger.
> 
> I have recently bought the PRO version of SynthV from AniCute.
> How can I get the update of SynthV Pro?


Go into the app and select the cloud icon on the right bar. Then select the 'check for updates' button on the bottom of the slide in. Then select Synth V at the top and push the 'update' button at the bottom. It will download the new version. Make sure you close out Synth V once the pop-up appears with the new version exe to install. Double click the exe and do the install. Then open Synth V. You can update the Voice also after the version is updated from within the app.


----------



## PrimeEagle

baggage said:


> New Update - Cross Language Singing Synthesis



Wait, does this mean you can do English with _any _of the voices?


----------



## cnogradi

PrimeEagle said:


> Wait, does this mean you can do English with _any _of the voices?



It means that some of the voices can support all languages (Chinese/Japanese/English) which are listed below. Though this is very impressive, I only think the Chinese voice makes for a realistic English version (but that is just my opinion).

From this page: https://dreamtonics.com/en/cross-lingual-support-for-synthesizer-v-ai/

*Voice Updates*​
All of the following voices will support cross-lingual singing synthesis upon the update.

Saki AI v118
Qing Su v103
Tsurumaki Maki AI (JPN) v107
Tsurumaki Maki AI (ENG) v103
Koharu Rikka AI v115
Tsuina-Chan AI v103
Eleanor Forte AI v103
ANRI v103

*Male AI Voice Database Coming Soon*

Dreamtonics is determined to diversify the line up of voices. A male AI voice database native in American English, first teased in June 2021, will be available for purchase in early 2022.


----------



## PrimeEagle

Any idea how to update Anri? The normal update process from within the app didn't find an update for that one. Mine still shows v101.


----------



## cnogradi

PrimeEagle said:


> Any idea how to update Anri? The normal update process from within the app didn't find an update for that one. Mine still shows v101.


ANRI updated fine for me from 102 to 103. Did you update Synth V to 1.5 already? ANRI would not allow me to update until I updated the main application 1st. Also, are you using PRO or Basic? I am using PRO.


----------



## PrimeEagle

cnogradi said:


> ANRI updated fine for me from 102 to 103. Did you update Synth V to 1.5 already? ANRI would not allow me to update until I updated the main application 1st. Also, are you using PRO or Basic? I am using PRO.


I'm on PRO. I updated it 1.5 just fine, then updated Eleanor and that worked too. Anri isn't showing that an update is even available.


----------



## RobbertZH

cnogradi said:


> Go into the app and select the cloud icon on the right bar. Then select the 'check for updates' button on the bottom of the slide in. Then select Synth V at the top and push the 'update' button at the bottom. It will download the new version. Make sure you close out Synth V once the pop-up appears with the new version exe to install. Double click the exe and do the install. Then open Synth V. You can update the Voice also after the version is updated from within the app.


Thanks for you explanation and also for your later post that list the voices which are updated for the cross-language support. Hopefully they will also update the voicebank Cangqiong in the future.


----------



## Getsumen

baggage said:


> New Update - Cross Language Singing Synthesis



The male voice sounds pretty good actually. The Chinese version is a bit worse than the others, has some weird pronunciations, and I have no idea how it sounds in Japanese. English is pretty good though!


----------



## David Cuny

Impressive technology!  I hadn't expected it, but in retrospect, it makes sense they'd go that direction. It makes me wonder about cross-_voice _synthesis.

There's much less accent to the voices than I would expect, so I'm really curious as to what aspects of a voice define the phoneme, and which define the accent.

I see that neither of the existing male voices, Genbu or Muxin, are on the compatibility list. So the wait for the male Synthesizer V voice continues until some time next year.

I'm really curious how Cangqiong - also not on the list - would sound in English.

I _am_ a bit disappointed by the sound of the unreleased male voice. He sounds like some average guy who's not really a singer. There's a lack of energy, as if there's not much breath support, which gives the impression of the lyric being more spoken than sung.

That's probably because the AI "humanization" feature causes the pitch to be... well, rather wobbly. Or perhaps it's also a low register for the voice.

Either way, I'll end up getting it, as it's still an improvement over what we've currently got.


----------



## Pier-V

baggage said:


> New Update - Cross Language Singing Synthesis



Well, this was really unexpected, it seems Christmas came early this year!

I feel that deserves something better than a simple written reply message though (I hope the grammar is correct 🤣):

View attachment E.F. Thanking Dreamtonics for the Update.mp3


----------



## Getsumen

I don't understand a wink of Japanese but damn the tone of this sounds pretty insane.


Aside from a few pronunciation faults here and there, there are sections here that I think can authentically pass for real pretty well.

I believe this is using Qing Su in the new cross-language update as well which is originally Chinese.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Getsumen said:


> I don't understand a wink of Japanese but damn the tone of this sounds pretty insane.
> 
> 
> Aside from a few pronunciation faults here and there, there are sections here that I think can authentically pass for real pretty well.
> 
> I believe this is using Qing Su in the new cross-language update as well which is originally Chinese.



Yeah, I noticed Qingsu in previous video as well. She sounds incredibly good, hoping she will be available on Anicute, cause currently she is for Chinese market only...


----------



## PrimeEagle

Vlzmusic said:


> Yeah, I noticed Qingsu in previous video as well. She sounds incredibly good, hoping she will be available on Anicute, cause currently she is for Chinese market only...


Can't you buy it from Taobao.com?


----------



## Vlzmusic

PrimeEagle said:


> Can't you buy it from Taobao.com?


I couldn't get in actually, through the phone authentication etc. Do you know if they sell digital version there?


----------



## PrimeEagle

I got in and it looks like they do have the digital versions, but Google Translate does a horrible job on that page.


----------



## Pier-V

I'm still in the "study phase" with this Vst (and I was focusing mostly on other stuff recently), so apologies for the very short duration of the following excerpt.
Even though the idea of using SynthV for exposed lines is a matter of taste and will probably still be open for discussion for quite a bit, I personally think that the Vst makes for an _excellent_ backing vocals substitute, especially in homophonic writing.

"Where you are", from Moana OST, is a track based on the idea of using constant deceptive cadences in the chorus, which is something really unusual, and imho what makes it really work is the brilliant idea of assigning the "important notes" of those cadences to human voice. Just for fun, I recreated one, and it wasn't even that difficult which surprised me.
Had to make some small adjustments to the auto pitch function, but that's totally fine, and there was a PERFECT response to both the tension and gender function (which I use to switch from nasal to throat/chest singing).

(Please note that I'm not planning to do the full cover though, I was simply searching for the Vst's sweet spot and for a good spatialization process.)



View attachment Moana Back Voc Excerpt.mp3


----------



## baggage

new demo of SOLARIA showing the cross language synthesis


----------



## szczaw

Great tech, bad choice of the singer in my opinion.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

I like Solaria much more than Eleanor. Tbh it's almost mind-boggling to me that anyone would prefer Eleanor over Solaria. They're very different though.


----------



## szczaw

There's no accounting for taste. As far as I'm concerned, once you have one of these pop-alt voices, you have them all. It wouldn't make any difference to me whether I used Solaria or Eleanor but the former seems blander.


----------



## Raphioli

Getsumen said:


> I don't understand a wink of Japanese but damn the tone of this sounds pretty insane.
> 
> 
> Aside from a few pronunciation faults here and there, there are sections here that I think can authentically pass for real pretty well.
> 
> I believe this is using Qing Su in the new cross-language update as well which is originally Chinese.



wow, didn't know about this cross-language update.
This tech keeps evolving... jaw dropping to say the least.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

szczaw said:


> There's no accounting for taste. As far as I'm concerned, once you have one of these pop-alt voices, you have them all. It wouldn't make any difference to me whether I used Solaria or Eleanor but the former seems blander.


To my ear Solaria's voice has more character, depth, and expressiveness, and a more contemporary tone (or at least a tone with more contemporary relevance). Eleanor's singing style goes from distractingly old-fashioned (as in cheesy stuff from the 50's, maybe) to a bit cartoonish in the higher registers, and generally seems lacking in depth or spaciousness. Some of of Eleanor's high notes are painful to listen to---so bright they make my ears bleed and so cartoonishly saccharine I am literally nauseated.


----------



## szczaw

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> To my ear Solaria's voice has more character, depth, and expressiveness, and a more contemporary tone (or at least a tone with more contemporary relevance). Eleanor's singing style goes from distractingly old-fashioned (as in cheesy stuff from the 50's, maybe) to a bit cartoonish in the higher registers, and generally seems lacking in depth or spaciousness. Some of of Eleanor's high notes are painful to listen to---so bright they make my ears bleed and so cartoonishly saccharine I am literally nauseated.


I'm talking about the singer and not the quality of the rendering. From time to time I hire a vocalist, and if I had to choose between hiring one of the two, it would be the singer behind Eleanor. In the real world, I wouldn't hire either one.


----------



## szczaw

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> To my ear Solaria's voice has more character, depth, and expressiveness, and a more contemporary tone (or at least a tone with more contemporary relevance).


I agree that the tone is more contemporary to a specific kind of music, which also makes it less generic and less applicable to something else.


----------



## Vlzmusic

szczaw said:


> There's no accounting for taste. As far as I'm concerned, once you have one of these pop-alt voices, you have them all. It wouldn't make any difference to me whether I used Solaria or Eleanor but the former seems bland.


Not exactly. Once you dive in and start rendering, you see many differences in the timbre and "sweet spots" in terms of range, and even with the new update, they pronounce the words a bit differently still.


----------



## Werty

baggage said:


> new demo of SOLARIA showing the cross language synthesis



I didn't like the first demo of Solaria, but I like this one, something has improved very quickly I suppose.


----------



## RobbertZH

Getsumen said:


> Aside from a few pronunciation faults here and there, there are sections here that I think can authentically pass for real pretty well.
> 
> I believe this is using Qing Su in the new cross-language update as well which is originally Chinese.






Vlzmusic said:


> Yeah, I noticed Qingsu in previous video as well. She sounds incredibly good, hoping she will be available on Anicute, cause currently she is for Chinese market only...


Indeed a really nice voice.

What I find rather confusing of all these voice banks is where you can actually buy them.
That some of these voicebanks are produced in asia does not help, because when searching for a specific one on Google, I often reach a webpage in japanese or chinese, which I cannot read.

There are voicebanks that are not sold by AniCute.

For example, Solaria can (only?) be bought on the Eclipsed Sounds website (will be released on January 19th) and their website will have a pre-order webpage tomorrow.

I have not found which company sells Qin Su (or is it Qinsu). 
Is it an AI voicebank?
Will it be upgraded to multi-language (including support of english language)?
On which English-language website can I buy it?


----------



## David Cuny

RobbertZH said:


> What I find rather confusing of all these voice banks is where you can actually buy them.
> That some of these voicebanks are produced in asia does not help, because when searching for a specific one on Google, I often reach a webpage in japanese or chinese, which I cannot read.
> 
> There are voicebanks that are not sold by AniCute.
> 
> For example, Solaria can (only?) be bought on the Eclipsed Sounds website (will be released on January 19th) and their website will have a pre-order webpage tomorrow.
> 
> I have not found which company sells Qin Su (or is it Qinsu).
> Is it an AI voicebank?
> Will it be upgraded to multi-language (including support of english language)?
> On which English-language website can I buy it?


The Dreamtonic website is a mess, they doesn't list a number of voicebanks, and their documentation is virtually non-existent. Great product, terrible communication.

She'll be available on Dreamtonic's Taobao from the 1st of December, 2021.



RobbertZH said:


> For example, Solaria can (only?) be bought on the Eclipsed Sounds website (will be released on January 19th) and their website will have a pre-order webpage tomorrow.


Solaria was a crowdfunded voicebank, and isn't even listed on the Dreamtonic website yet.

Dreamtonics is the only company that can encode voices for _Synthesizer V_, but not all the voices are distributed by Dreamtonics.



RobbertZH said:


> I have not found which company sells Qin Su (or is it Qinsu).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it an AI voicebank?
> Will it be upgraded to multi-language (including support of english language)?
> On which English-language website can I buy it?



Despite the fact that Qing Su is one of Dreamtonics' _own voicebanks_, I don't even see it listed on their website.

You can read about the voicebank here. It's available as both a Standard and AI voicebank.

Dreamtonics set up their own website on Taebao, and it's currently not available elsewhere. Unfortunately, you can't even access the Taebao webpage without getting an account first. Purchasing in China generally has to be done via a forwarding service.

Apparently all AI voices _could_ support the cross-lingual feature, but Dreamtonics is only providing it for the non-free voices. This means you can't use it with the Lite voices.

AI Voices also have to be re-encoded to support that feature, so some voices (like the AI Chinese voices Cangqiong, Shian, Haiyi and Chiyu) that _are_ available on ANiCUTE will take to add that support, as the companies that own those voices weren't well informed ahead of time on what the process would entail.


----------



## Michel Simons

David Cuny said:


> The Dreamtonic website is a mess, they doesn't list a number of voicebanks, and their documentation is virtually non-existent. Great product, terrible communication.
> 
> She'll be available on Dreamtonic's Taobao from the 1st of December, 2021.
> 
> 
> Solaria was a crowdfunded voicebank, and isn't even listed on the Dreamtonic website yet.
> 
> Dreamtonics is the only company that can encode voices for _Synthesizer V_, but not all the voices are distributed by Dreamtonics.
> 
> 
> 
> Despite the fact that Qing Su is one of Dreamtonics' _own voicebanks_, I don't even see it listed on their website.
> 
> You can read about the voicebank here. It's available as both a Standard and AI voicebank.
> 
> Dreamtonics set up their own website on Taebao, and it's currently not available elsewhere. Unfortunately, you can't even access the Taebao webpage without getting an account first. Purchasing in China generally has to be done via a forwarding service.
> 
> Apparently all AI voices _could_ support the cross-lingual feature, but Dreamtonics is only providing it for the non-free voices. This means you can't use it with the Lite voices.
> 
> AI Voices also have to be re-encoded to support that feature, so some voices (like the AI Chinese voices Cangqiong, Shian, Haiyi and Chiyu) that _are_ available on ANiCUTE will take to add that support, as the companies that own those voices weren't well informed ahead of time on what the process would entail.


I have been following this thread from the beginning and I want to use this opportunity to thank you for your informative posts. Especially since the Dreamtonics' site is such a mess (on which I agree).


----------



## RobbertZH

David Cuny said:


> The Dreamtonic website is a mess, they doesn't list a number of voicebanks, and their documentation is virtually non-existent. Great product, terrible communication.
> 
> She'll be available on Dreamtonic's Taobao from the 1st of December, 2021.
> 
> 
> Solaria was a crowdfunded voicebank, and isn't even listed on the Dreamtonic website yet.
> 
> Dreamtonics is the only company that can encode voices for _Synthesizer V_, but not all the voices are distributed by Dreamtonics.
> 
> 
> 
> Despite the fact that Qing Su is one of Dreamtonics' _own voicebanks_, I don't even see it listed on their website.
> 
> You can read about the voicebank here. It's available as both a Standard and AI voicebank.
> 
> Dreamtonics set up their own website on Taebao, and it's currently not available elsewhere. Unfortunately, you can't even access the Taebao webpage without getting an account first. Purchasing in China generally has to be done via a forwarding service.
> 
> Apparently all AI voices _could_ support the cross-lingual feature, but Dreamtonics is only providing it for the non-free voices. This means you can't use it with the Lite voices.
> 
> AI Voices also have to be re-encoded to support that feature, so some voices (like the AI Chinese voices Cangqiong, Shian, Haiyi and Chiyu) that _are_ available on ANiCUTE will take to add that support, as the companies that own those voices weren't well informed ahead of time on what the process would entail.



Thanks again for your extensive and informative answers to my questions.



David Cuny said:


> Qing Su will be available on Dreamtonic's Taobao from the 1st of December, 2021.
> 
> Dreamtonics set up their own website on Taebao, and it's currently not available elsewhere. Unfortunately, you can't even access the Taebao webpage without getting an account first. Purchasing in China generally has to be done via a forwarding service.



The Taebao website is in (for me) an unreadable asian language and I don't see how you can switch to english. And it appears indeed that you have to create an account first.

Maybe I should send a message to AniCute if they are planning to distribute this voicebank.


----------



## PrimeEagle

RobbertZH said:


> Thanks again for your extensive and informative answers to my questions.
> 
> 
> 
> The Taebao website is in (for me) an unreadable asian language and I don't see how you can switch to english. And it appears indeed that you have to create an account first.
> 
> Maybe I should send a message to AniCute if they are planning to distribute this voicebank.


If you use Chrome, you can right-click on the page and have it translate the page for you.


----------



## David Cuny

RobbertZH said:


> The Taebao website is in (for me) an unreadable asian language and I don't see how you can switch to english. And it appears indeed that you have to create an account first.


It's better integrated into Chrome, but you can use Google's translate to render non-English pages.

Go to https://translate.google.com/ and type in the name of the URL you want translated. A link will appear on the *Translate* side on the left. Click it, and Google will translate the webpage.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Solaria available for preorder now from Eclipsed Sound's website, but no mention of whether the preorder price is any less than what the regular price will be.


----------



## Gaffable

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Solaria available for preorder now from Eclipsed Sound's website, but no mention of whether the preorder price is any less than what the regular price will be.


On Twitter, Eclipsed Sounds said that the preorder price is the regular price:



​


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Gaffable said:


> On Twitter, Eclipsed Sounds said that the preorder price is the regular price:


So are they saying that non-preorder customers will have to wait a significant length of time after ordering to get their serials?... If so is that because Eclipsed Sounds has to get them from / register them with Dreamtonics or something like that?


----------



## David Cuny

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> So are they saying that non-preorder customers will have to wait a significant length of time after ordering to get their serials?... If so is that because Eclipsed Sounds has to get them from / register them with Dreamtonics or something like that?


No, they're saying that people who pre-order it will receive it on January 19th.

Nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## KarlHeinz

After trying out the demo and the prize was reduced to a reasonable one (it is not stated anywhere but I am nearly sure it is permanently to be in the range of the competitors) I got the full version of emvoice Lucy today.

Compared to the competitors this might be like a toy in case of tweakability and functions and.....

And I really HATE that it only works online. And the chance that it will be simply gone with the provider gone is big on this market....

Still.....I LOVE it so far 

Record a midi melody, type in some words coming into your mind and it/she.......sings MY lyrics 

And it is easy to use as a toy, thats it for me. In a way it is really amazing that there is nearly NOTHING you can edit with it but.....

If sometime I have really TO much/enough energy for real music making I am going to sing myself instead of wasting energy on something like Vocaloid or trying to even understand the sales sites in chinese/japanese whatever apps to even be able to buy it or get it doing at least anything......but as far as I am sitting here on this electronic kind of.......well, it sings


----------



## David Cuny

As an update on *SOLARIA*, yesterday Eclipsed Sounds sent out copies to the people who had ordered pre-orders - a week earlier than expected.


----------



## Vlzmusic

KarlHeinz said:


> After trying out the demo and the prize was reduced to a reasonable one (it is not stated anywhere but I am nearly sure it is permanently to be in the range of the competitors) I got the full version of emvoice Lucy today.
> 
> Compared to the competitors this might be like a toy in case of tweakability and functions and.....
> 
> And I really HATE that it only works online. And the chance that it will be simply gone with the provider gone is big on this market....
> 
> Still.....I LOVE it so far
> 
> Record a midi melody, type in some words coming into your mind and it/she.......sings MY lyrics
> 
> And it is easy to use as a toy, thats it for me. In a way it is really amazing that there is nearly NOTHING you can edit with it but.....
> 
> If sometime I have really TO much/enough energy for real music making I am going to sing myself instead of wasting energy on something like Vocaloid or trying to even understand the sales sites in chinese/japanese whatever apps to even be able to buy it or get it doing at least anything......but as far as I am sitting here on this electronic kind of.......well, it sings


Hi Karl, as mentioned elsewhere, emvoice head developer addressed the possibility of them going offline, stating that it won't happen without giving us a locally working plugin.

I hope they have some surprising advances in the making, cause recent developments in the market made the tool literally obsolete.


----------



## KarlHeinz

Vlzmusic said:


> Hi Karl, as mentioned elsewhere, emvoice head developer addressed the possibility of them going offline, stating that it won't happen without giving us a locally working plugin.
> 
> I hope they have some surprising advances in the making, cause recent developments in the market made the tool literally obsolete.


Great, thanks for the info. 

As this for my needs is absolutely sufficient I could live with an offline version that is not longer develloped. Of course: any devellopment till then more then welcome


----------



## Pier-V

If anyone managed to try Solaria in advance, we're here to listen to some feedback in case! I think the voicebank has potential, in particular it seems to have a timbre which suggest higher dynamics in general, so it could be really useful to create contrast in a duet, just to give an example. Meanwhile I found this demo on Youtube:


----------



## Vlzmusic

Pier-V said:


> ..so it could be really useful to create contrast in a duet...


Duet? Ha ha, I am already planning a quartet + the future male voicebank as a stand-in.


----------



## szczaw

Vlzmusic said:


> Duet? Ha ha, I am already planning a quartet + the future male voicebank as a stand-in.


Haha, yea, you can form a small choir with all these virtual singers.


----------



## David Cuny

Pier-V said:


> If anyone managed to try Solaria in advance, we're here to listen to some feedback in case!


I haven't had a whole lot of time to play around with the voice, but it does seem to have more power than _Eleanor Forte_ and _ANRI_. I hope to be able to find some time working with it.

If you drop to a lower register and adjust the *Gender* parameter, it also has a passable "male" voice, which is useful since _SynthV_ currently lacks native English male voices.


----------



## Getsumen

I was looking around at some SynthV stuff and stumbled across a channel with some pretty in-depth tutorials and guides on tuning and voice matching in SynthV. 

Honestly, the results are pretty... damn good. I don't know a cent of Japanese but there are moments in this song where if you just sent me that section I wouldn't believe it was a vocal synth. Yes, obviously there are numerous moments where there are dead giveaways that it's not a human but the fact that there are moments at all where it sounds pretty human-like is nuts. Like, take a listen around ~0:57. That's insane (excluding the bit of unnatural vibrato at the end) 



They've got various other little showcases like this. Give them a listen, they're pretty neat. (I just posted the most recent one)


----------



## Pier-V

Getsumen said:


> I was looking around at some SynthV stuff and stumbled across a channel with some pretty in-depth tutorials and guides on tuning and voice matching in SynthV.
> 
> Honestly, the results are pretty... damn good. I don't know a cent of Japanese but there are moments in this song where if you just sent me that section I wouldn't believe it was a vocal synth. Yes, obviously there are numerous moments where there are dead giveaways that it's not a human but the fact that there are moments at all where it sounds pretty human-like is nuts. Like, take a listen around ~0:57. That's insane (excluding the bit of unnatural vibrato at the end)
> 
> 
> 
> They've got various other little showcases like this. Give them a listen, they're pretty neat. (I just posted the most recent one)



This was interesting for a series of reasons, but the use of vibrato in particular really captured my attention.
So, if I understand correctly, this is a note by note mockup of an enka singer performance. As far as I know enka is a Japanese singing style that mixes pop with traditional singing techniques - to any expert in the matter: feel free to add more details or to correct me if I'm wrong.

At 1:05 it is particularly noticeable how vibrato enters all of a sudden towards the end of the note, and even more interesting is the fact that it has slow frequency but high amplitude. It's also drawn by hand instead of using the traditional LFO method, which *greatly* improves the result imho. It remimded a bit of the way Kuroneko sings in Kouga Nipou Chou, even though the latter is a metal song with slight folk influences, so in that case the technique is _reaaally_ exaggerated:



- - - - - -

Right before that same note it's also used another technique I've seen used often in various SynthV performances so far: a sudden but brief rise in pitch before the note transition, usually combined with a decrease in the tension parameter to go in falsetto territory (not in this case though).
One of the best cases where I've seen this used well is in the following excerpt - I timestamped an example performed at 1:01 (another amazing variation, once again very exaggerated, at 1:14)



- - - - - -

I have a feeling that, if mastered, that kind of gesture could enable some serious folk gestures, like for example the note endings typical in Kulning singing:


----------



## Hataori

Pier-V said:


> This was interesting for a series of reasons, but the use of vibrato in particular really captured my attention.
> So, if I understand correctly, this is a note by note mockup of an enka singer performance. As far as I know enka is a Japanese singing style that mixes pop with traditional singing techniques - to any expert in the matter: feel free to add more details or to correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> At 1:05 it is particularly noticeable how vibrato enters all of a sudden towards the end of the note, and even more interesting is the fact that it has slow frequency but high amplitude. It's also drawn by hand instead of using the traditional LFO method, which *greatly* improves the result imho. It remimded a bit of the way Kuroneko sings in Kouga Nipou Chou, even though the latter is a metal song with slight folk influences, so in that case the technique is _reaaally_ exaggerated:
> 
> - - - - - -
> 
> Right before that same note it's also used another technique I've seen used often in various SynthV performances so far: a sudden but brief rise in pitch before the note transition, usually combined with a decrease in the tension parameter to go in falsetto territory (not in this case though).
> One of the best cases where I've seen this used well is in the following excerpt - I timestamped an example performed at 1:01 (another amazing variation, once again very exaggerated, at 1:14)



Hello, Hataori from HPsynthV YT channel here. I made the video above - Kassai. I have just registered here only to reply to this thread. I am very honored to be linked from this forum. Really.

I want to clarify the vibrato and the other things you are discussing - I have no any credit in these. I only copy pitch and timing from the real singer (in this case 12 yo girl, apparently talented). The vibrato and the pitch slides are authentic as far as they can be in synthetic voice performance. All the credits go to Maya.

This is not hand drawn, this is a pitch contour got from Praat phonetic analysis program as is, only slightly LP filtered to get rid od HF noise, which makes the synth husky.
I am not expert on enka style but I like it and this exagerated vibrato is pretty common in enka.

I would like to direct your attention, if I can, to other my enka video, which is interesting by that it's a synth cover (also copy) of another synthetic voice, created after the real singers death by AI technology. Sounds complicated, see the description and links. There you can hear a enka super vibrato.

Thank you very much for your interest and I would happily answer any questions.
I can also provide SVP project file.

Hataori




Edit:
I don't want to spoil this thread by links to my videos,
did you mean this pitch bumps above some consonants?
The song Hatsukoi Cider (my second video) is full of it.
These are also natural.


----------



## Pier-V

@Hataori Hi, and welcome to the forum! I'm very honored to have the video creator in person in this thread as well!


Hataori said:


> This is not hand drawn, this is a pitch contour got from Praat phonetic analysis program as is, only slightly LP filtered to get rid od HF noise, which makes the synth husky.


Thank you for explaining the technique you used to get those results. I don't know what Praat is but I'll definitely make some research. It seems like a lot of work but it definitely pays off in the end. Very ingenious!



Hataori said:


> I would like to direct your attention, if I can, to other my enka video, which is interesting by that it's a synth cover (also copy) of another synthetic voice, created after the real singers death by AI technology.


The story behind this cover is very interesting. Despite being a mockup of a mockup it still retains a good amount of realism. Here the vibrato is even more pronounced than in the metal song I linked above! One question: have you tried coupling the pitch automation with the tension parameter following some kind of rule?
This is just a wild guess, but I have a feeling tension follows pitch variation - I have no idea how much, and I have no idea if that's in or out of phase with pitch variation but I find a bit strange for a singer to be able to mantain a perfectly constant tension in his/her muscles while performing a vibrato... I am committed to make some experiments about that interaction, meanwhile, if you find something interesting, feel free to post it here of course!



Hataori said:


> did you mean this pitch bumps above some consonants?


Yes, that's _exactly_ what I meant!
I listened to Hatsukoi Cider, the effect is very expressive and a good starting point, but in my opinion there are some parts where it could really benefit from more automation in the other parameters. I also listened to the original, and while some parts are on point I feel others have been slightly exaggerated - that said, Rikka is probably very difficult to work with so the temptation to increase pitch variation to compensate for a flatter tone is relatable.

(I'm not detracting from the mockup of course, that's still an incredible amount of work and a different interpretation could even be a good thing actually.)

Another thing I noticed in the original is how vowels open a lot in the softer passages. Second wild guess of the day: could that be imitated somehow with tiny modifications in the gender function, where a more open vowel translates in a more "masculine" timbre?

Lastly, don't worry about linking too much of your own work: the goal of this thread is to familiarize with SynthV, including the vast amount of techniques necessary to get a realistic performance.
_Many of this aspects have not been formalized yet, because up until now singers learned mainly from other singers using a lot of intuition, trial/error and practice, but to use this Vsti well a good amount of theory, science and reasoning are indispensable as well._ So far, your intervention has provided an incredible amount of useful information, so there's absolutely nothing to worry about.


----------



## Hataori

I am very glad you are interested in this topic. I do the YT channel because I like speech and singing and also the synthetic ones, and I learn a lot from it.


Pier-V said:


> I don't know what Praat is...


Praat.org is an open source multiplatform speech processing program with motto "doing phonetics by computer" created by two researchers from Netherlands. Since 1995 and still updating!

It has the best pitch detection algorithm I know and I also use it for phoneme labeling.
There's a lot of speech and phonetics related things.

UI is a little outdated but absolutly try it.

A couple of hours ago I posted a video how I do it with Praat. Only 15 min.
It is not as much work as you could think and it is an interesting work.


Pier-V said:


> have you tried coupling the pitch automation with the tension parameter following some kind of rule?
> This is just a wild guess, but I have a feeling tension follows pitch variation - I have no idea how much, and I have no idea if that's in or out of phase with pitch variation but I find a bit strange for a singer to be able to mantain a perfectly constant tension in his/her muscles while performing a vibrato...


In the Arekara video you can see at the bottom two parameters - Tension and Pitch Deviation.
I didn't do anything with others.

I change tension only in long gradual runs. I've read somewhere that tension increases with running out of breath so I draw almost linear ramp up to the end of the vibrato.

In that heavy vibrato you can see also an amplitude modulation on the waveform - this is done automatically by the AI synth. I think it has learned it from real data.
This is why AI synths are so good - if you don't need to interfere you won't ruin it. 



Pier-V said:


> I listened to Hatsukoi Cider, the effect is very expressive and a good starting point, but in my opinion there are some parts where it could really benefit from more automation in the other parameters. I also listened to the original, and while some parts are on point I feel others have been slightly exaggerated - that said, Rikka is probably very difficult to work with so the temptation to increase pitch variation to compensate for a flatter tone is relatable.


That was the second song I did and I did it differently than now. I was not able to transfer the params reasonably well. Every song since then brought something new. And I had only Rikka. I tend to cast Saki now for serious songs.



Pier-V said:


> Another thing I noticed in the original is how vowels open a lot in the softer passages. Second wild guess of the day: could that be imitated somehow with tiny modifications in the gender function, where a more open vowel translates in a more "masculine" timbre?


In the softer parts you are right, it is different, but it is not the gender - it's again the tension, this time slightly negative. In the Hatsukoi Cider I pushed Rikka into falsetto by this negative tension. She didn't want to. 



Pier-V said:


> Lastly, don't worry about linking too much of your own work: the goal of this thread is to familiarize with SynthV, including the vast amount of techniques necessary to get a realistic performance.


I am intersted in making scripts for SynthV, which would be useful for others. I thought about identifying and programming some repeatedly used fetures which could be generated by keyboard shortcuts. 
So far only vibrato and some basic transitions are formalized and incorporated into vocal synths. The authomatic AI tuning function is good, but it cannot know where the feature is suitable - it is creators job. 
I don't know how the feature you have mentioned is called - that is one of them.
And eg. pitch 'tails' at the ends of notes or pitch drops on consonants. Those what 'tuners' draw by hand.
But first I need some songs to study.


----------



## Pier-V

@Hataori Today I took some time to give a first look to the Praat official website and to watch the tutorial you linked in your latest post. This has an amazing potential, really.

Even though I have a general understanding of what's going on, there are still many many details that will require proper study and it will take some time for sure, but at this point I have no doubt it will pay off.
I also realized I greatly overlooked the power of SynthV scripts, so that's another thing that will require further investigation.

The consideration about how tension gradually rises when a singer is running out of breath makes perfect sense, thanks for pointing that out.

About the scripts, I have no experience in programming at the moment and to be honest I completely forgot SynthV is even capable of executing them, but then I remembered seeing on the official site that one of the features of the Pro version is indeed:






Is this what you are talking about? Anyway, please feel free to let us know about the scripts you make if so you wish. Also, considering you said you are willing to share the SVP project file for the Kassai cover, that would be incredibly appreciated as well.

Thank you so much for all the help!


----------



## Hataori

Pier-V said:


> Today I took some time to give a first look to the Praat official website and to watch the tutorial you linked in your latest post. This has an amazing potential, really.


I think you will like the Praat program.



Pier-V said:


> I completely forgot SynthV is even capable of executing them, ...





Pier-V said:


> Is this what you are talking about?


Yes, this was the first thing that convinced me to buy Studio Pro. I think that this is the best move Dreamtonics did (before cross-lingual synthesis). They are barely patching software bugs, so this way we can add some new features without bothering the developers.



Pier-V said:


> Anyway, please feel free to let us know about the scripts you make if so you wish.


Here is a link to my scripts on GitHub. I know there should be more docs, but doc is the video series.

If you want to try only one, download randomizeOnsets.lua - it is independent of others. Copy it to your scripts folder and reload scripts. It does what it says. I used it to do the unisono 'choir' in Arekara.



Pier-V said:


> Also, considering you said you are willing to share the SVP project file for the Kassai cover, that would be incredibly appreciated as well.



Here are links to foldes with Kassai and Arekara project files and stems, which I used (low quality).


----------



## David Cuny

Hataori said:


> Hello, Hataori from HPsynthV YT channel here. I made the video above - Kassai. I have just registered here only to reply to this thread. I am very honored to be linked from this forum. Really.


I had a quick look at your tutorial videos - very impressive! 

This isn't directly related, but have you looked at Spleeter? It can be used to isolate vocals track from a song. One problem with that is you'll typically have vocals doubled, so the resulting stems aren't always that useful if you're looking for a clean vocal.


----------



## Gaffable

David Cuny said:


> ...have you looked at Spleeter? It can be used to isolate vocals track from a song.



Vocal Remover is another free tool for isolating vocals, by Melnik Dmitry. I haven't used it.


----------



## David Cuny

Gaffable said:


> Vocal Remover is another free tool for isolating vocals, by Melnik Dmitry. I haven't used it.


I've seen a bunch of versions of software that turned out to be repackaged versions of Spleeter.

Given how little information there is on Melnik's site, I wouldn't rule out that this doesn't also use Spleeter.


----------



## Hataori

David Cuny said:


> I had a quick look at your tutorial videos - very impressive!
> 
> This isn't directly related, but have you looked at Spleeter? It can be used to isolate vocals track from a song. One problem with that is you'll typically have vocals doubled, so the resulting stems aren't always that useful if you're looking for a clean vocal.


I think it is directly related and it is the worst part of all of it.

A vocal stem separation is now relatively easy, we have many neural net based programs and web services. But it was possible even before.

SW: I don't use Spleeter, instead I used https://www.lalal.ai/ - they came later and compared themselves with Spleeter, so I suppose it is a differen algorithm.

I can confirm that Vocal Remover is not the Spleeter, I use its offline open source version from Github
and it doesn't do instrument stems, only vocal. Although it is focused on making instrumentals, it also separates vocals. It has a couple different AI models and is very good.
Installing is not very easy, I recomend to use Anaconda environment (it is in Python).

You can also have programs like Spectral Layers and RipX.
I use Spectral Layers 8 now.

BUT by these tools you will get ALL vocals from the song in addition with associated reverb.
Gettin a useful vocal from this is sometimes a dirty work.

Therefore first I search for a raw solo performance, preferably without effects, but definitely stereo.
Amateur covers are ideal, these are not mixed well into music. It doesn't matter if it's out of tune we can tune it later with parameters.

What we need is a vocal with natural human timing/lengths of phonemes and natural pitch transitions. The signal doesn't need to be clean, at least we want to see the phonemes and Praat should be able to extract the pitch. And Praat is very good at it.

Fortunately the reverb and backing vocals are usually spread in stereo, so what I do everytime to get rid of it is extracting only the center part of the stereo signal.

I do it by converting the signal to mono/side representation (L+R/L-R) and spectrally subtracting side part from mono part M-S - only magnitude spectra, setting the phase to zero.

I have my own Windows program to do it, but it is a piece of (work), I cannot publish it, it only reads in some specific wav formats. I cannot direct you somewhere how to do it, but I know surely that this spectral subtraction is part of the Vocal remover.

Maybe someone can suggest how to do it mutliplatform way.

The worst case for extracting vocal are multiple voices mixed in center. These are harmonies, the doubled vocals i think also belong here (I didn't do it yet), unisono and the worst of all - the unisono live where everyone is out of tune.

The studio unisono in tune (and maybe doubled vocs) are not that bad, the Praat can deal with it.

About harmonies - I separated this duet in Spectral Layers. It is very time consuming, but possible.

I am planning to try out yet another method, which I used for vocal separation before neural nets.

It is a pitch driven suppressing comb filter. 

When there were other instruments in center of the stereo, eg. drums, I bandpass filtered what was possible, then Praat was able to extract the pitch. The comb filter tuned by pitch period was able to erase all the vocals harmonics. Then the resulting vocal was again the spectral difference of original center and the residual without vocal.

I want to try to suppress second voice in harmony by drawing the melody in midi and use it as a driver for the comb filter. But I don't give it much hope.

I am sorry for this long post, it is my passion, I am glad to share.


----------



## Markrs

I don't think anyone had shared these yet. I think both of these Synth V videos are excellent.


----------



## Hataori

Markrs said:


> I don't think anyone had shared these yet. I think both of these Synth V videos are excellent.



Oh My God - he used my script and credited me!

"I used HPsynthV's plugin for the tuning on spoken parts."

And the first one is Solarias AI autotune - impressive.


----------



## hummersallad

Hataori said:


> Oh My God - he used my script and credited me!
> 
> "I used HPsynthV's plugin for the tuning on spoken parts."
> 
> And the first one is Solarias AI autotune - impressive.


I could not resist buying Synthesizer V Pro and Solaria. So here I am trying to learn how to get the most out of this combination. But it is almost impossible to find current tutorials let alone a manual for Synth V 1.5
I have no previous experience with similar products, like vocaloids, so I have to start from scratch. No problems entering notes and text and using auto-tune but how do you improve the singing? Like tuning, editing phonems, etc, etc? And how do you use scrips?


----------



## Hataori

hummersallad said:


> how do you improve the singing? Like tuning, editing phonems, etc, etc? And how do you use scrips?


I am afraid I am not the right person to ask. I havn't done one cover by standard tuning (how everyone does), ie drawing pitch curves by hand or using note parameters to do what I want. I merely copy parameters from a real life - that's why it sounds good.

If I can give you some advice - listen to it (as every sound engineer says ) and watch works of others.

I would start with the automatic tuning, because it is getting better and better, listened to the result, found spots which don't sound good, tried to figure out why and tried to correct it by experimenting with parameters.

About scripting - search for 'synthv scripts'



In this forum https://forum.synthesizerv.com/

Original scripts from Dremtonics https://github.com/Dreamtonics/svstudio-scripts

and if you want to try the programming yourself, you will need docs:


Home - Synthesizer V Studio Scripting Manual



Maybe somebody else can also give you some advice.


----------



## hummersallad

Thanks Hataori!

You see, I’m not interested in creating covers but hope to use the voices in my own (future) music. So I will have no sources to copy parameters from. Like you suggest, I have started with the auto-tuning which is very impressive.

BTW, I contacted Eclipsed Sounds and was told that they are working on videos that will explain how to improve SOLARIA! Unfortunately they didn’t know when those videos will be published but I am sure they will be VERY useful.

Until then, I will try to figure out how things work and see if I can get some help in the Synthesizer V forum you mentioned!
Or in this FaceBook group that started a few weeks ago! https://www.facebook.com/groups/synthesizerv

I have no idea if I want to try creating scripts as I still do not know what they do 
Will explore all your links and learn! Thanks!


----------



## Hataori

hummersallad said:


> hope to use the voices in my own (future) music. So I will have no sources to copy parameters from.


I have a crazy idea - if you can sing, why don't you sing it yourself and transfer it to synthV?

I can't sing at all, but looking for some (amateur) male voice to try it. Any volunteer? 



hummersallad said:


> BTW, I contacted Eclipsed Sounds and was told that they are working on videos that will explain how to improve SOLARIA! Unfortunately they didn’t know when those videos will be published but I am sure they will be VERY useful.


This is awesome! I am very curious!


----------



## ip20

Markrs said:


> I don't think anyone had shared these yet. I think both of these Synth V videos are excellent.




The LM cover was super impressive. Truly do not think average listeners would know it wasn’t a real singer.


----------



## ip20

Hataori said:


> Hello, Hataori from HPsynthV YT channel here. I made the video above - Kassai. I have just registered here only to reply to this thread. I am very honored to be linked from this forum. Really.
> 
> I want to clarify the vibrato and the other things you are discussing - I have no any credit in these. I only copy pitch and timing from the real singer (in this case 12 yo girl, apparently talented). The vibrato and the pitch slides are authentic as far as they can be in synthetic voice performance. All the credits go to Maya.
> 
> This is not hand drawn, this is a pitch contour got from Praat phonetic analysis program as is, only slightly LP filtered to get rid od HF noise, which makes the synth husky.
> I am not expert on enka style but I like it and this exagerated vibrato is pretty common in enka.
> 
> I would like to direct your attention, if I can, to other my enka video, which is interesting by that it's a synth cover (also copy) of another synthetic voice, created after the real singers death by AI technology. Sounds complicated, see the description and links. There you can hear a enka super vibrato.
> 
> Thank you very much for your interest and I would happily answer any questions.
> I can also provide SVP project file.
> 
> Hataori
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit:
> I don't want to spoil this thread by links to my videos,
> did you mean this pitch bumps above some consonants?
> The song Hatsukoi Cider (my second video) is full of it.
> These are also natural.




You are a wealth of info. I hope to spend time studying all your videos when time permits.


----------



## hummersallad

Hataori said:


> I have a crazy idea - if you can sing, why don't you sing it yourself and transfer it to synthV?


Haha! That is a great and fun idea but unfortunately I am not a singer.


----------



## Markrs

If you haven't watch it yet the synth V cover of "we don't talk about Bruno" uses Solaria, Elenor Forte, and Saki


----------



## David Cuny

I've made a number of scripts, but the one I use the most automatically assigns curves to the following parameters:

Loudness
Tension
Breathiness
Gender









synth-v-scripts/Expressive 2.lua at main · dcuny/synth-v-scripts


Scripts for the Synthesizer V program. Contribute to dcuny/synth-v-scripts development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com





For each selected note, the script creates a three-point spline - one control point at the start of the note, one near the midpoint, and one at the end. It makes a rough guess what the position and amplitude of the midpoint should be, with default values adjustable in the dialog.

Editing the *Parameters* is just a matter of using the *Line Tool* to drag the spline's midpoint to a different time or amplitude - or just delete control points to merge curves.

I find that moving a single control point is a _much _simpler way to edit the parameters, as opposed to having to draw the control points manually.

Of course, *Pitch* requires a higher degree of detail, so it's not included. And the AI feature does a much better job than my code could. 

The code is nowhere as complex as Hataori's, but my goal is to provide tools that make it easier to create a performance from scratch, not duplicate an existing performance.


----------



## Hataori

David Cuny said:


> The code is nowhere as complex as @Hataori's, but my goal is to provide tools that make it easier to create a performance from scratch, not duplicate an existing performance.


I forgot - one of my scripts is for a general use - randomizeOnsets.lua - select some notes or nothing (for all), will shift directly the note onsets, not the Note offset parameter, takes care of concatenated notes


----------



## Vlzmusic

Hataori said:


> I have a crazy idea - if you can sing, why don't you sing it yourself and transfer it to synthV?
> 
> I can't sing at all, but looking for some (amateur) male voice to try it. Any volunteer?
> 
> 
> This is awesome! I am very curious!


Yamaha tried such technology with Vocaloid, and while there were some nice tracks produced by pro's in Vocaloid community, it didn't catch, cause in practice, its not a viable process for 98% of the user base. AI + ability to add your manual stuff, seems like a better solution.


----------



## Hataori

Vlzmusic said:


> Yamaha tried such technology with Vocaloid


Was it the Vocalistener? I don't know it and how it works.



Vlzmusic said:


> in practice, its not a viable process for 98% of the user base


Agree. But I am targeting the 2% for fun, not for a commercial product.

I also think that from those 98% only a small part is able to create a good track.
But if others are willing to pay too, I agree to give them a proper tool.

If you look at utau people, what technicalities they are able to do and what time they are willing to spend, I admire them.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Hataori said:


> Was it the Vocalistener? I don't know it and how it works.


Yeah, that's the one. But anyway, I don't really like voice control as a whole.


----------



## pianistje

Just installed Solaria and it’s a lot of fun. She has a different ‘timing‘ (lack of a better description from my part) and shorter ‘length‘ than Eleanore so i had to rearrange my midi in places to include her. I am just using it for fun and fun it is. Only thing i really want from a future release is not such ‘young voices’. A more rough and experienced voice would be a very welcome addition. But all in all i have been enjoying this vocal synth for a few months. Crazy to think what can be achieved within a decade. Btw i am dutch and ‘praat’ means ‘talk’. ‘Prietpraat’ means ‘small talk’.


----------



## David Cuny

pianistje said:


> Only thing i really want from a future release is not such ‘young voices’. A more rough and experienced voice would be a very welcome addition.


Same here. The cross-lingual English version of Cangqiong is still in closed beta, but is on the top of my list:


----------



## pianistje

David Cuny said:


> Same here. The cross-lingual English version of Cangqiong is still in closed beta, but is on the top of my list:



Wow , yes that’s gorgeous !!


----------



## CatOrchestra

David Cuny said:


> Same here. The cross-lingual English version of Cangqiong is still in closed beta, but is on the top of my list:



Any idea when it will be accessible/purchasable?


----------



## David Cuny

CatOrchestra said:


> Any idea when [Cangqiong] will be accessible/purchasable?


No, sorry.

There are different voices _SynthV_, provided by different vendors. The vendors do the recordings, and Dreamtonics does the encoding into the final product.

In order for the AI voices to work with the cross-lingual, they'll have to be retrained and re-encoded by Dreamtonics.

My understanding is that Dreamtonics didn't do a good job communicating with the vendors of the voicebanks. So it appears it make take longer than expected for the updated AI voices to be released.

Plus, it doesn't look like an AI voice for Cangqiong has even been released yet. The Standard voice is available on the ANiCUTE website, but I don't see any AI voices listed there, and the fandom website doesn't indicate that an AI version has been released, either.


----------



## Werty

David Cuny said:


> Same here. The cross-lingual English version of Cangqiong is still in closed beta, but is on the top of my list:



Cangqiong sounds like a butcher, perfect for Adele and these cheesy commercial songs


----------



## Pier-V

David Cuny said:


> Same here. The cross-lingual English version of Cangqiong is still in closed beta, but is on the top of my list:



Speaking about Cangqiong and cross-lingual engine, I just found something really interesting...
A group of people decided to really go the extra mile, covering "Let it go" in 25 different languages.
First, the song itself is already a challenge on its own, because when Idina Menzel decides she wants to sing fff, she just does it and nobody can stop her. Currently, I find that the main limitation in SynthV powerful synthesis engine is the slightly reduced dynamic range of its voicebanks (if I had to make a rough estimation I'd say it usually spans from p/mp up to mf/f depending on the specific case, with convincing ppp and fff being the real challenge). Just let me say this: I invite anyone curious to make an a/b/a comparison between how the cover starts and how it ends.



- - - - - -

Now let's talk about the fun stuff. 25 languages is not a joke! Sure, there are still imperfections (I could clearly hear an accent in the Italian version, for example), but this basically means that we now have a *serious* ground to build a custom language.
This may seem insane, but there are actually singers who literally made a career on the idea of singing a made up language - not only phonetically but where even words have absolutely no meaning, except for their emotional impact. It's a real possibility, and another tool in the arsenal.
Moreover, this could be incredibly useful for all those composers who spent years learning how to compose and orchestrate but never had the change to write lyrics for a song, and despite that want to experiment with songwriting.
Below is a real example of this peculiar style by Emi Evans (_Edit: not 100% sure if it's gibberish, but I also added another example where backing vocals are used more like an acoustic instrument, from Kena OST - here SynthV would be *perfect *for the occasion_):


----------



## Michel Simons

Pier-V said:


> Now let's talk about the fun stuff. 25 languages is not a joke! Sure, there are still imperfections (I could clearly hear an accent in the Italian version, for example), but this basically means that we now have a *serious* ground to build a custom language.


The same goes for the Dutch and German lines. Still impressed though.



Pier-V said:


> This may seem insane, but there are actually singers who literally made a career on the idea of singing a made up language - not only phonetically but where even words have absolutely no meaning, except for their emotional impact. It's a real possibility, and another tool in the arsenal.


Lisa Gerrard comes to mind.


----------



## cloudrunner92

I've been following this discussion for a while now and as a result finally took the plunge and got Solaria and SynthV Pro. I'm super impressed with some of the demos that were posted and - after playing around a bit - with how quickly you can get usable results.

My personal main interest at the moment would be to use these vocals during pre-production of a song as a guide for a real singer as well as possibly for background vocals.

To this end, there are a few points I'm somewhat unsure about at the moment.

First of all would be the licensing of the synthesized voice. If I look at the license agreement of Solaria, all of Article 2 is kind of a mystery to me. I don't quite understand if I publish music that includes vocals by Solaria if that incurs any license fees or not. Would probably be best to ask Eclipsed Sounds directly.

Besides that, I'm currently looking into finding the optimum way to get a realistic performance. I've found the automatic tuning to be surprisingly good in most situations, especially with some manual tweaking. Out of curiosity, I also had to try @Hataori 's way of copying a real performance. So I recorded a small part of a popular song and tried to get Solaria to sing it by putting in the lyrics and extracting the pitch with Praat. I have to be honest, I was struggling quite a bit with Praat for two reasons. There were some parts where it wasn't able to extract the pitch, but this is something that I face with Melodyne as well, so I guess it's just the way I sing. But then I was really struggling with where exactly to put the markers/boundaries between syllables, so that combined with my partially sloppy singing messed up the timing a bit. As a result, I ended up with some artifacts, visible in SynthV as static pitch or very short pitch spikes. So please take my audio example with more than one grain of salt, I'm one hundred percent sure that with better singing and better syllable marking, better results can be achieved. It was my very first attempt at this after all, I've never worked with any vocal synth before. I did do some manual corrections in SynthV after the import and shifted everything up to fit Solaria's range better.
I want to take the chance to say thank you to Hataori for providing the tutorial and scripts and I'm looking forward to playing around with this some more.

The attachment is me singing first and then Solaria. I'm aware it's not up to par with the Youtube examples posted here, which is why I was reluctant to post at all 😅 Any advice on how to improve would be very welcome!

View attachment break-my-heart-again-verse-recorded-vs-solaria.mp3


----------



## Bee_Abney

cloudrunner92 said:


> I've been following this discussion for a while now and as a result finally took the plunge and got Solaria and SynthV Pro. I'm super impressed with some of the demos that were posted and - after playing around a bit - with how quickly you can get usable results.
> 
> My personal main interest at the moment would be to use these vocals during pre-production of a song as a guide for a real singer as well as possibly for background vocals.
> 
> To this end, there are a few points I'm somewhat unsure about at the moment.
> 
> First of all would be the licensing of the synthesized voice. If I look at the license agreement of Solaria, all of Article 2 is kind of a mystery to me. I don't quite understand if I publish music that includes vocals by Solaria if that incurs any license fees or not. Would probably be best to ask Eclipsed Sounds directly.
> 
> Besides that, I'm currently looking into finding the optimum way to get a realistic performance. I've found the automatic tuning to be surprisingly good in most situations, especially with some manual tweaking. Out of curiosity, I also had to try @Hataori 's way of copying a real performance. So I recorded a small part of a popular song and tried to get Solaria to sing it by putting in the lyrics and extracting the pitch with Praat. I have to be honest, I was struggling quite a bit with Praat for two reasons. There were some parts where it wasn't able to extract the pitch, but this is something that I face with Melodyne as well, so I guess it's just the way I sing. But then I was really struggling with where exactly to put the markers/boundaries between syllables, so that combined with my partially sloppy singing messed up the timing a bit. As a result, I ended up with some artifacts, visible in SynthV as static pitch or very short pitch spikes. So please take my audio example with more than one grain of salt, I'm one hundred percent sure that with better singing and better syllable marking, better results can be achieved. It was my very first attempt at this after all, I've never worked with any vocal synth before. I did do some manual corrections in SynthV after the import and shifted everything up to fit Solaria's range better.
> I want to take the chance to say thank you to Hataori for providing the tutorial and scripts and I'm looking forward to playing around with this some more.
> 
> The attachment is me singing first and then Solaria. I'm aware it's not up to par with the Youtube examples posted here, which is why I was reluctant to post at all 😅 Any advice on how to improve would be very welcome!
> 
> View attachment break-my-heart-again-verse-recorded-vs-solaria.mp3


I can't offer advice as I'm still deciding whether to jump into this particular vortex. The licensing issues are a concern.

Anyway, I still think this sounds amazing compared to technology of the recent past. It would surely serve as a good guide for another vocalist.

I was wondering why you don't tune your vocal with Melodyne first. It will knock the life out of it, but would it make it a better starting template?


----------



## cloudrunner92

Bee_Abney said:


> I can't offer advice as I'm still deciding whether to jump into this particular vortex. The licensing issues are a concern.
> 
> Anyway, I still think this sounds amazing compared to technology of the recent past. It would surely serve as a good guide for another vocalist.
> 
> I was wondering why you don't tune your vocal with Melodyne first. It will knock the life out of it, but would it make it a better starting template?


I absolutely agree with it being better than previous technologies!

Regarding why I don't use Melodyne on the original recording, my expectation would be that if I knock the life out of it, that will in turn also knock the life out of the synthesized voice. So far my understanding is that it's all those micro-level pitch changes that make the performance sound alive. If I remove those, I expect a result that's very similar to drawing the notes in using the piano roll - everything quantized and robotic. But it's certainly something worth playing around with, there might be a good middle ground after all.

On that note, there is one thing that I conceptually don't fully understand yet and that is whether there's an equivalent to the modwheel/expression/dynamics sliders of our beloved orchestral libraries. The closest I found was reducing the "voicing" parameter, which leads to a more breathy tone, but what if I want higher dynamics?


----------



## David Cuny

cloudrunner92 said:


> First of all would be the licensing of the synthesized voice. If I look at the license agreement of Solaria, all of Article 2 is kind of a mystery to me. I don't quite understand if I publish music that includes vocals by Solaria if that incurs any license fees or not. Would probably be best to ask Eclipsed Sounds directly.


IANAL. 

This is the same as the other _SynthV_ licenses I've seen. "Natural person users" have the right to create commercial products with the voicebank.

Solaria adds the additional term "legal person users", apparently to distinguish "naturals person users" (who may also be legal entities) as being different from a "Corporation or legal entity".


----------



## Bee_Abney

cloudrunner92 said:


> I absolutely agree with it being better than previous technologies!
> 
> Regarding why I don't use Melodyne on the original recording, my expectation would be that if I knock the life out of it, that will in turn also knock the life out of the synthesized voice. So far my understanding is that it's all those micro-level pitch changes that make the performance sound alive. If I remove those, I expect a result that's very similar to drawing the notes in using the piano roll - everything quantized and robotic. But it's certainly something worth playing around with, there might be a good middle ground after all.
> 
> On that note, there is one thing that I conceptually don't fully understand yet and that is whether there's an equivalent to the modwheel/expression/dynamics sliders of our beloved orchestral libraries. The closest I found was reducing the "voicing" parameter, which leads to a more breathy tone, but what if I want higher dynamics?


Oh, and I should have said - I like your singing very much, too! I think Melodyne and Praat may struggle because of the harmonic richness. Not just the natural wobbling in and out of tune, but because voices contain many frequencies that won't all be around the same note. Some voice are clearer/cleaner in that regard. (Any experts, please for the love of God stop me making a fool of myself - I'm still learning this stuff.)

A pitch wheel would be hugely helpful at playing in the little wobbles manually (I do this with vocal sample libraries when I can; but you have, obviously to be careful with it). I agree that being able to capture this aspect with your performance would be good, however the problem that it is introducing is that the note matching is leading to unnatural sounds in the synthetic voice.

I have found that if I try to match a sampled voice to an acoustic performance, there will be lots of notes that sound robotic. Sliding off of the chromatic note involves stretching a sample and involves movement; both of which can end up sounding wrong. Just like moving a filter setting draws attention to the artificial filter and sounds synthy, moving the pitch all too easily does the same.

I'm not sure what will help most. Smaller pitchbends, maybe slower ones also. Which might be addressed with using Melodyne on the recorded vocal (and deleting stray harmonics entirely). But that may, indeed, leave the synth vocal worse off than it is at the moment.

[EDITED to add - I said slower, I should have said faster. Faster pitchbends are harder to hear fully and so it is less obviously unnatural. Maybe, then, you could record your vocal not only deeper but slower, and then speed it up. Only by a small amount! This will speed up your own vibrato. Just a thought.]

But, since I don't have the knowledge of using this particular vocal synth, I can't be sure what might work best in general.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Obviously, there is a question of how far the software allows you to do this at and what stage. But I just tried it with a sampled vocal soloist. When to bend the pitch fast and slow varies and requires some judgement and trial and error. Which is, of course, why it would be great to capture that from your own performance.

The volume movement is more of an issue with the sample library - especially dipping the volume on the transients as the legatos are not well enough programmed to do without.


----------



## David Cuny

cloudrunner92 said:


> The attachment is me singing first and then Solaria. I'm aware it's not up to par with the Youtube examples posted here, which is why I was reluctant to post at all 😅 Any advice on how to improve would be very welcome!
> 
> View attachment break-my-heart-again-verse-recorded-vs-solaria.mp3


It depends on what you mean by "improve". 

_"I'm sure you're busy now"_ sounds a glitchy to my ears. I'd smooth that out by re-drawing some of the pitch curves.

On _"you need space"_, you're singing _"you"_ as a single pitch, but Solaria has it split between two notes, which sound unnatural. I'd have thought that part of the phrase would be sung stronger, especially the vibrato on _"space"_. I would want the singer to sustain it with more support and less wobbly vibrato.

The line _"you can't help it if your mind has changed"_ has the same sort of issue. Do you want it to be sung - and phrased with more control or support - or be wobbly and more realistic? Personally, I'd go use more pitch control, relying more on creating arcs within the words instead of having a wobbly pitch there.


----------



## David Cuny

For those who haven't used with the software, here's an example of the sorts of range that you can get by applying the AI function to vocals:

You get something like this if you just enter the notes:







The AI voices come trained to create pitch "improvisation". There's randomization to the process, and you can control the degree of improvisation. Here's at 50%:






With "Improvisation" set to 100%, showing the option to edit the control points in the piano roll notation:





Finally, here's an example of a hand-drawn pitch curve - something probably better done with a tablet!





Hopefully, this gives some idea of how the pitch parameter can be edited.


----------



## cloudrunner92

Bee_Abney said:


> Oh, and I should have said - I like your singing very much, too! I think Melodyne and Praat may struggle because of the harmonic richness. Not just the natural wobbling in and out of tune, but because voices contain many frequencies that won't all be around the same note. Some voice are clearer/cleaner in that regard. (Any experts, please for the love of God stop me making a fool of myself - I'm still learning this stuff.)
> 
> A pitch wheel would be hugely helpful at playing in the little wobbles manually (I do this with vocal sample libraries when I can; but you have, obviously to be careful with it). I agree that being able to capture this aspect with your performance would be good, however the problem that it is introducing is that the note matching is leading to unnatural sounds in the synthetic voice.
> 
> I have found that if I try to match a sampled voice to an acoustic performance, there will be lots of notes that sound robotic. Sliding off of the chromatic note involves stretching a sample and involves movement; both of which can end up sounding wrong. Just like moving a filter setting draws attention to the artificial filter and sounds synthy, moving the pitch all too easily does the same.
> 
> I'm not sure what will help most. Smaller pitchbends, maybe slower ones also. Which might be addressed with using Melodyne on the recorded vocal (and deleting stray harmonics entirely). But that may, indeed, leave the synth vocal worse off than it is at the moment.
> 
> [EDITED to add - I said slower, I should have said faster. Faster pitchbends are harder to hear fully and so it is less obviously unnatural. Maybe, then, you could record your vocal not only deeper but slower, and then speed it up. Only by a small amount! This will speed up your own vibrato. Just a thought.]
> 
> But, since I don't have the knowledge of using this particular vocal synth, I can't be sure what might work best in general.


Thank you very much!

I think you might be dead-on with your assumption! For lack of knowledge, I also cannot comment if it's technically correct, but I have noticed that Melodyne occasionally tries to analyze my voice in polyphonic mode and I have to switch it back to melodic.

Since I think that the dynamics of the original recording don't matter too much (although they do influence e.g. vibrato speed indirectly - if I sing with a stronger tone I will have more vibrato), I will try recording the original performance at a higher dynamic and with less breathiness. That should make it easier for these tools to extract the pitch, I hope.

Regarding manual pitch adjustments, I guess the best way in SynthV would be to manually draw over the pitch curve. Maybe it's possible to identify certain "gestures" in an extracted pitch curve and apply them by manually drawing in something similar. My drawing skills with a mouse are not great though. I doubt I'd be able to move a physical pitch wheel accurately enough to create a vibrato at something like six oscillations a second 😁



David Cuny said:


> It depends on what you mean by "improve".
> 
> _"I'm sure you're busy now"_ sounds a glitchy to my ears. I'd smooth that out by re-drawing some of the pitch curves.
> 
> On _"you need space"_, you're singing _"you"_ as a single pitch, but Solaria has it split between two notes, which sound unnatural. I'd have thought that part of the phrase would be sung stronger, especially the vibrato on _"space"_. I would want the singer to sustain it with more support and less wobbly vibrato.
> 
> The line _"you can't help it if your mind has changed"_ has the same sort of issue. Do you want it to be sung - and phrased with more control or support - or be wobbly and more realistic? Personally, I'd go use more pitch control, relying more on creating arcs within the words instead of having a wobbly pitch there.


It might be lack of ear training, but I don't hear as much random wobble in the original recording as in the "copied" Solaria version, where to my ears it sounds obviously glitchy. Then again, I'm not a professional singer, either 😁 Your very detailed pointers are much appreciated! And I would very much agree that the glitchiness is distracting and a smoother curve might work better. I have noticed that in some places the syllables and pitch curve don't line up, causing further issues, but haven't yet figured out how to move a note without changing the pitch, so only the timing of the phonemes changes (globally, not within the note). There's also a ton of other things about SynthV that I'm curious about, such as if there is a way to morph vowels (or phonemes in general), e.g. to produce an "ee" that's in between the vowels in "beet" and "bit". Lots to learn still!


----------



## Markrs

There had been some discussion on KVR about the license and someone on the Solaria project responded









KVR Forum: Synthesizer V - Singing voice synth for Win/Linux/Mac (Free & Payware) - Page 13 - Instruments Forum


KVR Audio Forum - Synthesizer V - Singing voice synth for Win/Linux/Mac (Free & Payware) - Page 13 - Instruments Forum




www.kvraudio.com





A series of posts on twitter might be useful


----------



## Bee_Abney

Markrs said:


> There had been some discussion on KVR about the license and someone on the Solaria project responded
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KVR Forum: Synthesizer V - Singing voice synth for Win/Linux/Mac (Free & Payware) - Page 13 - Instruments Forum
> 
> 
> KVR Audio Forum - Synthesizer V - Singing voice synth for Win/Linux/Mac (Free & Payware) - Page 13 - Instruments Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kvraudio.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A series of posts on twitter might be useful



That helps a lot!

(I think!)


----------



## Bee_Abney

cloudrunner92 said:


> Thank you very much!
> 
> I think you might be dead-on with your assumption! For lack of knowledge, I also cannot comment if it's technically correct, but I have noticed that Melodyne occasionally tries to analyze my voice in polyphonic mode and I have to switch it back to melodic.
> 
> Since I think that the dynamics of the original recording don't matter too much (although they do influence e.g. vibrato speed indirectly - if I sing with a stronger tone I will have more vibrato), I will try recording the original performance at a higher dynamic and with less breathiness. That should make it easier for these tools to extract the pitch, I hope.
> 
> Regarding manual pitch adjustments, I guess the best way in SynthV would be to manually draw over the pitch curve. Maybe it's possible to identify certain "gestures" in an extracted pitch curve and apply them by manually drawing in something similar. My drawing skills with a mouse are not great though. I doubt I'd be able to move a physical pitch wheel accurately enough to create a vibrato at something like six oscillations a second 😁
> 
> 
> It might be lack of ear training, but I don't hear as much random wobble in the original recording as in the "copied" Solaria version, where to my ears it sounds obviously glitchy. Then again, I'm not a professional singer, either 😁 Your very detailed pointers are much appreciated! And I would very much agree that the glitchiness is distracting and a smoother curve might work better. I have noticed that in some places the syllables and pitch curve don't line up, causing further issues, but haven't yet figured out how to move a note without changing the pitch, so only the timing of the phonemes changes (globally, not within the note). There's also a ton of other things about SynthV that I'm curious about, such as if there is a way to morph vowels (or phonemes in general), e.g. to produce an "ee" that's in between the vowels in "beet" and "bit". Lots to learn still!


For vowels, it should be possible to add a plugin to the chain to help. But, any plugin that won't make it sound more robotic may end up costing more than SynthesizerV. I'm not sure, though, plenty of vocal sample libraries seem to sneak in a little formant shifting along with crossfading between samples.

If you wanted to go crazy with the editing, you could spectrally morph the synth voice with a sample of the desired vowel sound. I've only had sporadic success with vowel morphing with the tools I have. But, once it allows importing user samples, Soundpaint might be able to handle it.


----------



## David Cuny

cloudrunner92 said:


> I have noticed that in some places the syllables and pitch curve don't line up, causing further issues, but haven't yet figured out how to move a note without changing the pitch, so only the timing of the phonemes changes (globally, not within the note). There's also a ton of other things about SynthV that I'm curious about, such as if there is a way to morph vowels (or phonemes in general), e.g. to produce an "ee" that's in between the vowels in "beet" and "bit". Lots to learn still!


I'm not quite sure what you're asking here, since "move a note" and "timings of phonemes change globally" seem to be mutually exclusive.

There are a number of icons on the right hand side. Click the "Note" icon to open the "Note" panel:






You might need to scroll to the bottom of the panel to see it, but when you select a note, the *Timing and Phoneme* option becomes available for that note:





You can adjust the relative *Duration *of the phonemes in a note here without changing the duration of the note.

Each phoneme has three different "takes": *DFLT* (Default), *ALT1* (Alternate 1) and *ALT2* (Alternate 2). Picking a different "take" of the phoneme may alter the phoneme that follows it, so you can try that as well. But this setting doesn't seem to have much affect on the AI voices.

On the other hand, the AI version seems to blend vowel sounds a lot better, so you can use the *Duration* with phonemes to adjust "custom" diphthongs, such as writing *.w eh iy t* for *"wait"*, and then adjusting the durations so you've got more control of the timing of the diphthong.

But there's no way to adjust _how_ a phoneme sounds.

*Edit:* You _can _also adjust the sound of vowels by altering *Gender*, which moves the position of the formants - up for more feminine and bright, down for more masculine and round.


----------



## Pier-V

View attachment It Works.mp3


This is incredible, I feel like Ethan Hunt in Mission Impossible wearing masks of other people, but with voice  I can't remember the last time I was so thrilled about a Vst function!

It took some time but I eventually figured out how to use Praat and Hataori's scripts (the tutorial saved me). The original recording for the mp3 linked above was a bit longer, but something went wrong and I somehow missed the pitch information of some of the speech. Details!! - Have I already said this is mind blowingly amazing and has an outstanding potential?

With some practice it's definitely possible to obtain a good workflow, the real obstacle so far was convincing myself to have my voice recorded... @cloudrunner92 Thank you for sharing your experiment, that's what ultimately made me have a try. Also, welcome to the forum!

Of course it's still too early to give proper advice, but so far I noticed that artifacts at the beginning/ending of notes happen mainly when the syllables are not timed properly. Luckily this can be edited after the fact in SynthV (I highly suggest to disable quantization for that operation), and the same is true for phoneme programming. In fact, my solution was to imput a series of "a" as a placeholder in Praat because it just seemed a bit faster that way... also, with some attention it's possible to make a good estimation of where the syllables are just looking at the formants and at the contrast in the waveform.



Bee_Abney said:


> I think Melodyne and Praat may struggle because of the harmonic richness. Not just the natural wobbling in and out of tune, but because voices contain many frequencies that won't all be around the same note. Some voice are clearer/cleaner in that regard.


This was fairly accurate already. Probably Praat applies a fast fourier transform or something similiar to the waveform in order to generate a matrix of numbers that are later seen as weights to guess where are all the fundamentals and to differentiate those from noise and harmonics.



Spoiler: If anyone happens to be really curious to understand how that is possible








I haven't tried the following idea yet, so this could be a complete fail, but maybe it's possible to improve the effectiveness of Praat by filtering HEAVILY the original audio on both sides, leaving only a portion of the spectrum which coincides with the range of the fundamentals (and a couple of harmonics at most for the lowest notes of course).
Theoretically, that may be even able to get rid of some of the "pitch noise" artifact Cloudrunner92 was talking about. Be warned though, this method will destroy every information about waveform amplitude.


----------



## Pier-V

About the question for how to improve dynamics and expressiveness, I've decided to attach the SVP project file for the phrasing experiment I did a while ago, when I was still using the Lite version of Saki AI.
It's not perfect by any means and probably an outdated technique at this point (and for some reason the programming for that transcription seems to work better with the lite version than with the Pro 🤷‍♂️), but imho it still does a good job at illustrating the interaction between the various functions and the incredible impact the gender function in particular can have if used in a certain way.
If anyone decides to check it out, please feel free to leave an opinion on what could be programmed better and don't be afraid to be objective. I really want to learn how to get the most out of this Vst.

_One note_: I was already aware of how difficult programming pitch and vibrato is, so I avoided touching those entirely and basically edited the parameters like I would with a regular orchestral Vst.


----------



## David Cuny

Bee_Abney said:


> Oh, and I should have said - I like your singing very much, too! I think Melodyne and Praat may struggle because of the harmonic richness. Not just the natural wobbling in and out of tune, but because voices contain many frequencies that won't all be around the same note. Some voice are clearer/cleaner in that regard. (Any experts, please for the love of God stop me making a fool of myself - I'm still learning this stuff.)


I don't think your comment about "harmonic richness" is correct.

My experience has been that both Melodyne and Praat have quite good pitch detection. With Praat, you may need to specify the range, or you'll get errors identifying the correct octaves.

The classic model for speech production is a *source -> filter *model. The "source" is the glottal pulse, and the "filter" is the oral cavity. The tongue shapes the oral cavity so the glottal pulse passes through a series of resonating chambers - this can be simulated by a series of bandpass filters. These resonating chambers produce the resonances that we associate with various vowel sounds. Check out this demo:



https://www.speech.kth.se/wavesurfer/formant/



Anyway, the glottal pulse is usually described a spectrally flat, and comes in a series of regular pulses.

Some voices have irregular phonation ("pathological" ), but pitch detection will still work - for cases where the pulse is doubled (sorry, can't remember the term right now) it's just going to register at a different octave.

More simply said: if a voice is on pitch, pitch detection routines are going to be able to track it.


----------



## Bee_Abney

David Cuny said:


> I don't think your comment about "harmonic richness" is correct.
> 
> My experience has been that both Melodyne and Praat have quite good pitch detection. With Praat, you may need to specify the range, or you'll get errors identifying the correct octaves.
> 
> The classic model for speech production is a *source -> filter *model. The "source" is the glottal pulse, and the "filter" is the oral cavity. The tongue shapes the oral cavity so the glottal pulse passes through a series of resonating chambers - this can be simulated by a series of bandpass filters. These resonating chambers produce the resonances that we associate with various vowel sounds. Check out this demo:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.speech.kth.se/wavesurfer/formant/
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, the glottal pulse is usually described a spectrally flat, and comes in a series of regular pulses.
> 
> Some voices have irregular phonation ("pathological" ), but pitch detection will still work - for cases where the pulse is doubled (sorry, can't remember the term right now) it's just going to register at a different octave.
> 
> More simply said: if a voice is on pitch, pitch detection routines are going to be able to track it.


Thank you! This is very helpful.


----------



## cloudrunner92

David Cuny said:


> I'm not quite sure what you're asking here, since "move a note" and "timings of phonemes change globally" seem to be mutually exclusive.
> 
> There are a number of icons on the right hand side. Click the "Note" icon to open the "Note" panel:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might need to scroll to the bottom of the panel to see it, but when you select a note, the *Timing and Phoneme* option becomes available for that note:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can adjust the relative *Duration *of the phonemes in a note here without changing the duration of the note.
> 
> Each phoneme has three different "takes": *DFLT* (Default), *ALT1* (Alternate 1) and *ALT2* (Alternate 2). Picking a different "take" of the phoneme may alter the phoneme that follows it, so you can try that as well. But this setting doesn't seem to have much affect on the AI voices.
> 
> On the other hand, the AI version seems to blend vowel sounds a lot better, so you can use the *Duration* with phonemes to adjust "custom" diphthongs, such as writing *.w eh iy t* for *"wait"*, and then adjusting the durations so you've got more control of the timing of the diphthong.
> 
> But there's no way to adjust _how_ a phoneme sounds.
> 
> *Edit:* You _can _also adjust the sound of vowels by altering *Gender*, which moves the position of the formants - up for more feminine and bright, down for more masculine and round.


Thank you for the explanation!
What I meant - and I understand this does not really apply to the regular workflow of fully creating a line in SynthV, but only to the process of importing pitch and syllables from Praat - was to nudge notes around when my syllable placement in Praat wasn't quite accurate, but without changing the pitch curve. From what I understand, the notes are only created by quantizing the pitch curve from Praat, so I'd like to be able to move them around without affecting pitch. The alternative would be to go back to Praat and fix the syllable placement there, but on reimport I would lose other changes I've made after the original import. Also, the feedback in SynthV is much more immediate, since I could hear the result right away instead of another round of export from Praat and import into SynthV. Compare the following images:









I wanted the "you" to start a bit earlier, so I moved first the end of "hey" and then the start of "you" to the left. However, in this region, SynthV recalculated the pitch curve, while I would like to retain the original, so I can fix incorrect syllable timing (i.e. not matching my voice recording perfectly) without going back to Praat. Not sure if this is possible at all.


Pier-V said:


> View attachment It Works.mp3
> 
> 
> This is incredible, I feel like Ethan Hunt in Mission Impossible wearing masks of other people, but with voice  I can't remember the last time I was so thrilled about a Vst function!
> 
> It took some time but I eventually figured out how to use Praat and Hataori's scripts (the tutorial saved me). The original recording for the mp3 linked above was a bit longer, but something went wrong and I somehow missed the pitch information of some of the speech. Details!! - Have I already said this is mind blowingly amazing and has an outstanding potential?
> 
> With some practice it's definitely possible to obtain a good workflow, the real obstacle so far was convincing myself to have my voice recorded... @cloudrunner92 Thank you for sharing your experiment, that's what ultimately made me have a try. Also, welcome to the forum!
> 
> Of course it's still too early to give proper advice, but so far I noticed that artifacts at the beginning/ending of notes happen mainly when the syllables are not timed properly. Luckily this can be edited after the fact in SynthV (I highly suggest to disable quantization for that operation), and the same is true for phoneme programming. In fact, my solution was to imput a series of "a" as a placeholder in Praat because it just seemed a bit faster that way... also, with some attention it's possible to make a good estimation of where the syllables are just looking at the formants and at the contrast in the waveform.
> 
> 
> This was fairly accurate already. Probably Praat applies a fast fourier transform or something similiar to the waveform in order to generate a matrix of numbers that are later seen as weights to guess where are all the fundamentals and to differentiate those from noise and harmonics.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: If anyone happens to be really curious to understand how that is possible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't tried the following idea yet, so this could be a complete fail, but maybe it's possible to improve the effectiveness of Praat by filtering HEAVILY the original audio on both sides, leaving only a portion of the spectrum which coincides with the range of the fundamentals (and a couple of harmonics at most for the lowest notes of course).
> Theoretically, that may be even able to get rid of some of the "pitch noise" artifact Cloudrunner92 was talking about. Be warned though, this method will destroy every information about waveform amplitude.



I loved the speech example! I totally understand how you feel, I'm a little bit obsessed with the topic as well, at the moment. On ways to improve the results, I will try out my "less breathiness" theory hopefully later today. If the signal is somewhat noise-free otherwise, I hope that will be enough. If not, next up would be heavy filtering 😊

Also, thanks to those of you suggesting to use formant shifting/the gender parameter, I wouldn't have thought of that myself. Thanks, Pier-V, for the example, it's super helpful.

Thanks @David Cuny for the scientific background information!


----------



## RobbertZH

Markrs said:


> I don't think anyone had shared these yet. I think both of these Synth V videos are excellent.



I find it surprising the different types of female vocals Solaria can generate. The two videos you posted does demonstrate this. The first one sounds like an adult woman. The second is more like an older child. In this thread there are also other videos of Solaria which demonstrates other types of female voices.

What are the V-Synth settings responsible for these voice differences?


----------



## soulofsound

Pier-V said:


> View attachment It Works.mp3
> 
> 
> This is incredible, I feel like Ethan Hunt in Mission Impossible wearing masks of other people, but with voice  I can't remember the last time I was so thrilled about a Vst function!
> 
> It took some time but I eventually figured out how to use Praat and Hataori's scripts (the tutorial saved me). The original recording for the mp3 linked above was a bit longer, but something went wrong and I somehow missed the pitch information of some of the speech. Details!! - Have I already said this is mind blowingly amazing and has an outstanding potential?
> 
> With some practice it's definitely possible to obtain a good workflow, the real obstacle so far was convincing myself to have my voice recorded... @cloudrunner92 Thank you for sharing your experiment, that's what ultimately made me have a try. Also, welcome to the forum!
> 
> Of course it's still too early to give proper advice, but so far I noticed that artifacts at the beginning/ending of notes happen mainly when the syllables are not timed properly. Luckily this can be edited after the fact in SynthV (I highly suggest to disable quantization for that operation), and the same is true for phoneme programming. In fact, my solution was to imput a series of "a" as a placeholder in Praat because it just seemed a bit faster that way... also, with some attention it's possible to make a good estimation of where the syllables are just looking at the formants and at the contrast in the waveform.
> 
> 
> This was fairly accurate already. Probably Praat applies a fast fourier transform or something similiar to the waveform in order to generate a matrix of numbers that are later seen as weights to guess where are all the fundamentals and to differentiate those from noise and harmonics.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: If anyone happens to be really curious to understand how that is possible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't tried the following idea yet, so this could be a complete fail, but maybe it's possible to improve the effectiveness of Praat by filtering HEAVILY the original audio on both sides, leaving only a portion of the spectrum which coincides with the range of the fundamentals (and a couple of harmonics at most for the lowest notes of course).
> Theoretically, that may be even able to get rid of some of the "pitch noise" artifact Cloudrunner92 was talking about. Be warned though, this method will destroy every information about waveform amplitude.



Does the data from Praat map pitch only or does it contain amplitude data too? In the example video the singing sounds totally natural to me so i guess it's more than just pitch? Anyway, can't wait to try this out when i have a little more time again.


----------



## Hataori

cloudrunner92 said:


> The attachment is me singing first and then Solaria. I'm aware it's not up to par with the Youtube examples posted here, which is why I was reluctant to post at all 😅 Any advice on how to improve would be very welcome!


I know I am too late to the party, but I have finally done @cloudrunner92 's example.

View attachment synth_Saki.mp3


First is a final result after transposition and some tuning and after is original synthetic copy with no tuning. I don't have Solario, so here it's Saki AI crosslanguage. I am terrible with English, I definitely butchered the lyrics and phonemes.

Here is a SVP project file with two tracks as recorded.

The source track was very good and no problem for Praat at all. I filtered the pitch with my script 'RV filter pitch' (included in the suite). But to achieve good results, it is important to also set lengths of consonants and in general start notes where vowels begin.
For me in English it is terribly hard.

Edit: I forgot to say - I am planning a second video how to adjust also length of consonants.
Edit2: Added source_pitch.txt - filtered


----------



## Hataori

@Pier-V That is awesome!!! I like it very very much!

Dealing with the lenghts of consonants is also possible and I'm going to do another video, but don't know when.



Pier-V said:


> I haven't tried the following idea yet, so this could be a complete fail, but maybe it's possible to improve the effectiveness of Praat by filtering HEAVILY the original audio on both sides, leaving only a portion of the spectrum which coincides with the range of the fundamentals (and a couple of harmonics at most for the lowest notes of course).
> Theoretically, that may be even able to get rid of some of the "pitch noise" artifact Cloudrunner92 was talking about. Be warned though, this method will destroy every information about waveform amplitude.


Please don't filter out any harmonic content before analysing the pitch - the algorithm depends on harmonics, it can get the right pitch even when 1st harmonics is not present. The method uses autocorrelation.

Use filter of the pitch curve from my RV suite.


Pier-V said:


> generate a matrix of numbers that are later seen as weights to guess where are all the fundamentals and to differentiate those from noise and harmonics


This matrix contains the best guesses of the algorithm and it's weights and the best thing of this algorithm is finding an optimal path through them along time. This is why it is so robust.
And you can also load it to editor and correct the errors manually.


----------



## Hataori

cloudrunner92 said:


> I wanted the "you" to start a bit earlier, so I moved first the end of "hey" and then the start of "you" to the left. However, in this region, SynthV recalculated the pitch curve, while I would like to retain the original, so I can fix incorrect syllable timing (i.e. not matching my voice recording perfectly) without going back to Praat. Not sure if this is possible at all.


It is easy to fix - you can move notes as you like, but after you move it, select the notes affected and reload the pitch - use the script 'RV load pitch'. Only the pitch around selected notes will be reloaded. I pinned the script to keayboard shortcut (alt-X or whatever you want), bcs I use it often.


----------



## soulofsound

Hataori said:


> I know I am too late to the party, but I have finally done @cloudrunner92 's example.
> 
> View attachment synth_Saki.mp3
> 
> 
> First is a final result after transposition and some tuning and after is original synthetic copy with no tuning. I don't have Solario, so here it's Saki AI crosslanguage. I am terrible with English, I definitely butchered the lyrics and phonemes.
> 
> Here is a SVP project file with two tracks as recorded.
> 
> The source track was very good and no problem for Praat at all. I filtered the pitch with my script 'RV filter pitch' (included in the suite). But to achieve good results, it is important to also set lengths of consonants and in general start notes where vowels begin.
> For me in English it is terribly hard.
> 
> Edit: I forgot to say - I am planning a second video how to adjust also length of consonants.
> Edit2: Added source_pitch.txt - filtered


This sounds absolutely great.


----------



## Hataori

soulofsound said:


> Does the data from Praat map pitch only or does it contain amplitude data too? In the example video the singing sounds totally natural to me so i guess it's more than just pitch? Anyway, can't wait to try this out when i have a little more time again.


Only the pitch and timing. I also tried the loudness, but first - it was bad, and second - SynthV does the loudness very well (and after all, I always throw a compressor on it - so every effort is gone


----------



## cloudrunner92

Hataori said:


> I know I am too late to the party, but I have finally done @cloudrunner92 's example.
> 
> View attachment synth_Saki.mp3
> 
> 
> First is a final result after transposition and some tuning and after is original synthetic copy with no tuning. I don't have Solario, so here it's Saki AI crosslanguage. I am terrible with English, I definitely butchered the lyrics and phonemes.
> 
> Here is a SVP project file with two tracks as recorded.
> 
> The source track was very good and no problem for Praat at all. I filtered the pitch with my script 'RV filter pitch' (included in the suite). But to achieve good results, it is important to also set lengths of consonants and in general start notes where vowels begin.
> For me in English it is terribly hard.
> 
> Edit: I forgot to say - I am planning a second video how to adjust also length of consonants.
> Edit2: Added source_pitch.txt - filtered


Thank you so much for doing this, it sounds great with Saki already! I took your project, put Solaria in there and made some minor changes (and added some effects). I love the result! This is super promising to become a viable process that I might see myself using for actual background vocals in my own music.

View attachment break-my-heart-again-solaria.mp3


Also, I'm looking forward to your video on consonant length. And the "RV load pitch" is exactly what I was looking for!


----------



## Hataori

cloudrunner92 said:


> I took your project, put Solaria in there and made some minor changes (and added some effects). I love the result!


This is beautiful! And that ex-spiration after hey you - so natural!


----------



## Hataori

cloudrunner92 said:


> Also, I'm looking forward to your video on consonant length. And the "RV load pitch" is exactly what I was looking for!


A preview how to do the consonants.
In principle - you will mark the consonant transition points with additional markers, which you label by ! (single char exclamation point). These are ignored in notes creation.

The script in addition to creating notes also transfers all markers as points into the 'vibrato envelope' automation track. (you can see it in my project already)
This track then serves as a visual clue for adjusting lengths of the consonants with note property widgets.

That's all.

I use the vibrato envelope value 1.0 (neutral value), it does nothing to sound. And you can delete everything, after you tune it.


----------



## cloudrunner92

Hataori said:


> A preview how to do the consonants.
> In principle - you will mark the consonant transition points with additional markers, which you label by ! (single char exclamation point). These are ignored in notes creation.
> 
> The script in addition to creating notes also transfers all markers as points into the 'vibrato envelope' automation track. (you can see it in my project already)
> This track then serves as a visual clue for adjusting lengths of the consonants with note property widgets.
> 
> That's all.
> 
> I use the vibrato envelope value 1.0 (neutral value), it does nothing to sound. And you can delete everything, after you tune it.


Ah yes, thank you! I'm actually a software dev by profession, music is "just" a hobby. So I had a look at your TextGrid lua script and indeed found the part with the exclamation point 😊
Just to make sure I understand correctly, if I take the word
"word"
I would do something like
| ! | word | ! | ! |
with the pipes being markers in Praat, yes?
I'll give this a try next week as soon as I find the time.


----------



## Hataori

cloudrunner92 said:


> I would do something like
> | ! | word | ! | ! |


Exactly! plus all parts with ! will belong to previous note. The note will here start at second pipe and end at last pipe. Try it and you'll see.


----------



## Pier-V

The second version of the cover sounds really musical, nice job!



Hataori said:


> Please don't filter out any harmonic content before analysing the pitch - the algorithm depends on harmonics, it can get the right pitch even when 1st harmonics is not present. The method uses autocorrelation.


Thank you, this advice will save me lots of time. Smart move on the developers part.



RobbertZH said:


> I find it surprising the different types of female vocals Solaria can generate. The two videos you posted does demonstrate this. The first one sounds like an adult woman. The second is more like an older child. In this thread there are also other videos of Solaria which demonstrates other types of female voices.


I was thinking the exact same thing, so I decided to take some time to make a... tiny bit... of research.

*-> Bought.*_ _

This is a small compilation of some of the best covers I was able to find on Youtube - all of them made with Solaria, all of them in different genres, using different singing techniques and from different authors. There's sooo much I'd like to talk about, but I'll let the videos speak for themselves instead. Btw, the last one is a surprise haha 













Spoiler: You ready for de lulz? :)


----------



## Getsumen

The Muddy Cloud one sounds amazing.


----------



## fiatlux

Question...is Synthesizer V Professional edition a VST or just standalone program.
I picked up Solaria and have been playing with it with the Basic Edition, but I'm confused how to use it within a DAW.


----------



## soulofsound

fiatlux said:


> Question...is Synthesizer V Professional edition a VST or just standalone program.
> I picked up Solaria and have been playing with it with the Basic Edition, but I'm confused how to use it within a DAW.


Yeah i'm trying to get this working, too. It seems there is a plugin you can download that links Synthesizer V editor (so not the basic version?) to a plugin in the DAW. All a bit convoluted. It would be nice to have it much simpler.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Pro version includes regular VSTi 3 plugin.


----------



## soulofsound

Vlzmusic said:


> Pro version includes regular VSTi 3 plugin.


Can you use it inside a daw? Without the external editor?


----------



## David Cuny

RobbertZH said:


> I find it surprising the different types of female vocals Solaria can generate. The two videos you posted does demonstrate this. The first one sounds like an adult woman. The second is more like an older child. In this thread there are also other videos of Solaria which demonstrates other types of female voices.
> 
> What are the V-Synth settings responsible for these voice differences?


The primary parameter here is *Gender*. What it does is move the position of the formants up ("feminine") or down ("masculine"). This corresponds to the length of the oral cavity, which is generally longer for men, so the resonances sound at lower frequencies.

This is also what happens when you slow down and speed up audio - not only does the pitch change, but the position of the formants shift with the pitch. So if you slow the pitch down too much, it sounds like a giant (long oral cavity) or make it too fast, so it sounds like a chipmunk (short oral cavity).

This is related to why it can be difficult to make out the vowel sounds of sopranos when they sing at high pitches. When that happens, the fundamental frequency (pitch of the voice) can rise above the first formant, so it's hard to determine what vowel is being sung.

To a lesser extend, *Breathiness* can be used as a cue.

There's also *Tension*. As I understand that, it's a measure of the glottal wave open _vs._ closed amount. The more tension there is, the longer the pulse's closed portion is. See below - the pulse on the top has virtually no closed portion, while the pulse on the bottom has a fairly large closed portion.






Less tension will give the impression of breathiness, while more tension will create a more focused and "buzzy" sound.

There's also a *Pitch Shift* parameter, but... due to the fact that having actual documentation seems to be a non-priority for _Dreamtonics_, I've yet to find out what it does. But people have mentioned using it to get a more "falsetto" tone, and I know it can be used to fine-tune the vocal quality.


----------



## cloudrunner92

soulofsound said:


> Can you use it inside a daw? Without the external editor?


It's basically the full editor, i.e. the same as the external application, including save/load, scripts, ... , as a plugin. There's an official tutorial that shows it:


Unfortunately, on my system it does not work at the moment. It generates no audio and restarting the "Live Rendering System" inside of it crashes my DAW (I'm on Studio One 5.5.0, Windows 11; same behavior with Reaper). I have yet to figure out what is happening, but the external application works with no issues whatsoever.


----------



## soulofsound

cloudrunner92 said:


> It's basically the full editor, i.e. the same as the external application, including save/load, scripts, ... , as a plugin. There's an official tutorial that shows it:
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, on my system it does not work at the moment. It generates no audio and restarting the "Live Rendering System" inside of it crashes my DAW (I'm on Studio One 5.5.0, Windows 11; same behavior with Reaper). I have yet to figure out what is happening, but the external application works with no issues whatsoever.



Thanks man. Great to know.


----------



## Vlzmusic

soulofsound said:


> Can you use it inside a daw? Without the external editor?


Regular VSTi as any other. Had no problems with it whatsoever.


----------



## Pier-V

Vlzmusic said:


> Regular VSTi as any other. Had no problems with it whatsoever.


Actually there is an issue with the current Vsti version of the product, but, as a big disclaimer, I don't know if it's just an incorrect use or lack of knowledge on my part.

At the time of writing I haven't been able to find a way to sync the internal tempo parameter of SynthV with the tempo of my DAW (in my case, Fl Studio).
This may seem a minor issue to many, but for me it has been a _huge_ downside since I work with A LOT of tempo automation in my projects. Everytime I want to automate tempo I have to do it twice, and I have to do it manually unless I import tempo automation from an external sorce like midi inside SynthV... that, however, cannot be done after the fact, only at the beginning of a project because it overrides every other data, again to my knowledge.

The other problem, which ironically "sinergizes" with the previous one, is that SynthV can only accept a tempo change every quarter note, and only reads interger values. Now, in Fl Studio I always work without quantization and the only way to imput integer tempo values is through a very time consuming process.
That means that every time I want to automate tempo (read: at the very least 5/6 times every single bar) I have to do it twice, manually, with quarter note quantization (which makes every attempt to recreate rubato even more time consuming, since that happens mainly on quavers and semiquavers) and using an unnatural process in my DAW wich involves many extra passages - I won't bother with details on the last one since it's not really SynthV's fault though.
There _may_ be a temporary solution at least for the "tempo automation every quarter note" part, using a trick that involves *doubling both the overall BPM of the project and the lenght of every note*, but I don't know if that changes the internal behaviour of SynthV so I need to experiment more in that regard.

If anyone from Dreamtonics will ever read this post I sincerely hope that the idea of solving some of these problems will be taken in consideration for the next updates. That is literally my only complaint so far with this Vst, which has otherwise proven incredible under every single other aspect.


----------



## KarlHeinz

Just a short info about new update, voice and pricedrop again for emvoice:









Emvoice | Next-Generation Vocal Synthesis


Meet Lucy: Download the demo and discover Emvoice One, the vocal synthesizer plugin (VST/AU/AAX) with realism at its heart



emvoiceapp.com





I was a little p...... that when I bought it just a few weeks ago it was announced as a deal which is now the regular price and dropped again. And while I am just in between the refund and "grace" period for people buyin at the old prize who get the new voice for free.....But I found a solution with the support, they are very responsive I have to say.

There is not much info now about the update (the new voice is a vocoder-style voice in which I am not interested at all) but so far as I have tried it out the main real nice addition are a lot of presets which lets you choose from robotic style tuning to lots of different "takes" on the original voice.

I love especially the new "smooth legato" and the "alternate take" which is a complete different recording that really brings variety even when using the same track.

The one octave lower voice is not useable at least for Lucy (sounds like a male then.....).

While contacting the support while I was wondering if this might be kind of "final sale" with all the price drops they assured that develloping is ongoing and there will be another female pop-orientated voice coming up and more updates.

For my limited needs I really love how easy it is to use and with the presets you have at least some options for easy variation.


----------



## Vlzmusic

KarlHeinz said:


> Just a short info about new update, voice and pricedrop again for emvoice:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emvoice | Next-Generation Vocal Synthesis
> 
> 
> Meet Lucy: Download the demo and discover Emvoice One, the vocal synthesizer plugin (VST/AU/AAX) with realism at its heart
> 
> 
> 
> emvoiceapp.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was a little p...... that when I bought it just a few weeks ago it was announced as a deal which is now the regular price and dropped again. And while I am just in between the refund and "grace" period for people buyin at the old prize who get the new voice for free.....But I found a solution with the support, they are very responsive I have to say.
> 
> There is not much info now about the update (the new voice is a vocoder-style voice in which I am not interested at all) but so far as I have tried it out the main real nice addition are a lot of presets which lets you choose from robotic style tuning to lots of different "takes" on the original voice.
> 
> I love especially the new "smooth legato" and the "alternate take" which is a complete different recording that really brings variety even when using the same track.
> 
> The one octave lower voice is not useable at least for Lucy (sounds like a male then.....).
> 
> While contacting the support while I was wondering if this might be kind of "final sale" with all the price drops they assured that develloping is ongoing and there will be another female pop-orientated voice coming up and more updates.
> 
> For my limited needs I really love how easy it is to use and with the presets you have at least some options for easy variation.


If it brings any consolation, I paid double that amount for each voice year ago, hoping to support the company to develop further. I am yet to try the new update, but unfortunately the demo they show, indicates it's still far behind Synth V. That's a pity, but life's too short. I am excited Synth V came out to be such a magnificent thing in the end.


----------



## KarlHeinz

Vlzmusic said:


> If it brings any consolation, I paid double that amount for each voice year ago, hoping to support the company to develop further. I am yet to try the new update, but unfortunately the demo they show, indicates it's still far behind Synth V. That's a pity, but life's too short. I am excited Synth V came out to be such a magnificent thing in the end.


Dont know if you got an email or even interested in it anyway but that qualifies you to get the new voice Thomas for free at least . If you are into robotic voices.......

And from the examples I heard in here I have to agree, it is behind Synth V (and of course behind Vocaloid too). But its so quick and easy to use


----------



## Vlzmusic

KarlHeinz said:


> Dont know if you got an email or even interested in it anyway but that qualifies you to get the new voice Thomas for free at least . If you are into robotic voices.......


Thanks a lot, I’ve missed that part. Not exactly my style, but will definitely try to make a use of it, like some 80's nostalgia maybe


----------



## PeterRees11

Eleanor Forte/SynthiV all over this (long) track, if anybody's interested: 

She can be heard as a straight choral effect at 21:37 and 51:32. Start from the beginning or skip to 24:08 to hear what can be done using external time-based processing - it's a lot of fun.

No one is going to be fooled into believing this is a real singer. It's the uncanny valley effect that I like. If it was ultra-realistic I wouldn't be interested.


----------



## szczaw

Oh wow, Emvoice is 60 bucks now. I paid twice as much for it, but that's ok, I'm a benevolent user. 

I don't know what is the point of doing a vocoder voice, when you can add a vocoder fx plugin after a normal voice.


----------



## Anthony

KarlHeinz said:


> Dont know if you got an email or even interested in it anyway but that qualifies you to get the new voice Thomas for free at least . If you are into robotic voices.......


Are you saying that previous owners of Lucy and/or Jay are entitled to a free copy of Thomas?


----------



## KarlHeinz

Anthony said:


> Are you saying that previous owners of Lucy and/or Jay are entitled to a free copy of Thomas?


If you paid the full prize, there was a date specified in the mail, november 2021 I think. Here it is the part of the mail:

_*The new default price for Lucy and Jay is $99. If you purchased the full range of either Lucy or Jay prior to November 16th, 2021 at full price, please reach out to [email protected]. We’d love to set you up with a copy of Thomas for free.*_


----------



## Markrs

Another good example of Solaria. Synth V already sounds amazing but I can't help thinking how good this will be in 1-2 years time!


----------



## Vlzmusic

szczaw said:


> Oh wow, Emvoice is 60 bucks now. I paid twice as much for it, but that's ok, I'm a benevolent user.
> 
> I don't know what is the point of doing a vocoder voice, when you can add a vocoder fx plugin after a normal voice.


Seems like Emvoice trying to fill the electronic/fx niche, if you look at all the voice preset system they introduced in this update. I have a soft spot for electronic music, teen years nostalgia about the 90ies, the Techno, the MOD sequencers - will come in handy when I get back to make something in this vein


----------



## Markrs

I swear few people would know this wasn't a real vocalist.



It is getting pretty tempting to buy this and give it a go!


----------



## Tim_Wells

Markrs said:


> I swear few people would know this wasn't a real vocalist.
> 
> 
> 
> It is getting pretty tempting to buy this and give it a go!



Agreed! This technology is surprisingly good. Can't wait to see how it develops over the next couple of years. Once someone comes out with a high-quality, English male voice, I'll likely pull the trigger.


----------



## szczaw

It's bad news for session singers.


----------



## szczaw

In fact, in the future, I can see people providing virtual singer sessions . Somebody for a fee will do vocals in synth V or similar, render 10 different voices, and you'll get a project file to tweak.


----------



## Markrs

Like with orchestras I don't think Synth V will replace singers for professional work as it will probably never have that level of flexibility. However for amateur writers it is ideal to get good vocals in a song you have written before deciding whether to invest money replacing Synth V with a professional singer.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Brief time with Solaria - she indeed has the most pleasing and production ready output, even compared to Eleanor/Anri.

-----Updated---

And nice range as well, but the killer feature is the way her voice loses control and strength on highest notes - a hyper realistic simulation of the real deal.


----------



## Pier-V

Vlzmusic said:


> And nice range as well


Absolutely! I've started making some "technical tests" as well, and it seems the comfortable range for Solaria is around G3/Ab3 to E5/F5. It can be extended further but it requires some advanced skill. Eleanor is about one major second lower but it's not really the big difference - what distinguish them the most is that Eleanor is especially strong in the lower octave of her range, while Solaria has a pleasant sound overall. Can't really talk for Anri since I don't own her voicebank.

The short improv attached below has all the seven functions automated, and I got the pitch information from Praat using @Hataori 's method.
Be warned: I'm NOT a singer and I made this just as an excercise 🤣! Also, I've never used dry voices before and I feel there's a lot of work to do on the mixing, hopefully I'll improve over time.
Btw, I'm learning *a lot* of useful information on a daily basis from Youtube videos - some of them even offer the SVP projects as a reference, so I highly recommend to check them out!

View attachment Dolaria Improv.mp3


----------



## Quasar

Even though I like offline workstations, the online processing in Emvoice intrigued me enough to purchase. I can use my not very powerful web machine to craft vocals along with a skeletal audio track, then port to the offline workstation to process and finish.

Here's quick sample of Jay, the male voice, just noodling, making up words to demo, and it could sort of work for certain kinds of postmodern vox used in an effects-y sort of way. Listening back, the voice needs, among other things, a de-esser, which I find sort of cool, as this replicates what would likely be needed from a human vocalist. Fun to explore anyway. FWIW:


----------



## KarlHeinz

Quasar said:


> Even though I like offline workstations, the online processing in Emvoice intrigued me enough to purchase. I can use my not very powerful web machine to craft vocals along with a skeletal audio track, then port to the offline workstation to process and finish.
> 
> Here's quick sample of Jay, the male voice, just noodling, making up words to demo, and it could sort of work for certain kinds of postmodern vox used in an effects-y sort of way. Listening back, the voice needs, among other things, a de-esser, which I find sort of cool, as this replicates what would likely be needed from a human vocalist. Fun to explore anyway. FWIW:



Interesting, sounds better then my experiences with Lucy so far. Will try out the demo of Jay to see if thats more the "better" voice or my lack of knowledge 

But as I am only interested in female voices as main voice I would have to get into that or wait till the next pop female voice coming up and hoping it will be improved.

Wonder if you have used the presets of the new version for your experiment ?


----------



## szczaw

Online processing makes Emvoice impossible to crack and redistribute.


----------



## Quasar

KarlHeinz said:


> Wonder if you have used the presets of the new version for your experiment ?


Nope. I have flipped through them briefly, but didn't immediately connect with any reason to use anything other than the default. Any vocoder-like techno effects defeat the purpose IMHO, as there are already a zillion other ways to make voices sound more robotic or whatever. Their vocoder voice, Thomas, doesn't interest me at all...

...The doubling might be useful, I dunno. But again, one doesn't need the Emvoice software to double a voice. As clean and as organic as possible is what makes these sorts of programs attractive IMHO.

Trying to maximize whatever vocal expressiveness Emvoice may have will involve quite a bit time-consuming and painstaking note-by-note attention to phrasing, velocity motion, inflection etc., much more than, say, modulating string dynamics. That much is clear. Given the subtle complexities of the human voice, our hardwired hypersensitivity to the "soul" of human expression, and the nascent aspect of these tools, it may end up being a lot of work for relatively little return if one wants so-called realism.

So the idea for me, in my amateur hobbyist wold, is to write music that plays to the faux voices' strengths, letting the 21st century tools do their own 21st century thing...


----------



## KarlHeinz

Quasar said:


> Nope. I have flipped through them briefly, but didn't immediately connect with any reason to use anything other than the default. Any vocoder-like techno effects defeat the purpose IMHO, as there are already a zillion other ways to make voices sound more robotic or whatever. Their vocoder voice, Thomas, doesn't interest me at all...
> 
> ...The doubling might be useful, I dunno. But again, one doesn't need the Emvoice software to double a voice. As clean and as organic as possible is what makes these sorts of programs attractive IMHO.
> 
> Trying to maximize whatever vocal expressiveness Emvoice may have will involve quite a bit time-consuming and painstaking note-by-note attention to phrasing, velocity motion, inflection etc., much more than, say, modulating string dynamics. That much is clear. Given the subtle complexities of the human voice, our hardwired hypersensitivity to the "soul" of human expression, and the nascent aspect of these tools, it may end up being a lot of work for relatively little return if one wants so-called realism.
> 
> So the idea for me, in my amateur hobbyist wold, is to write music that plays to the faux voices' strengths, letting the 21st century tools do their own 21st century thing...


Wow, a little philosophy of the "unnatural" voices included 

I am not after "natural" sounding voices too but more on the ambient/fantastic/elvish site of things 🧝‍♀️ 🧙‍♂️ 🧚‍♀️.

And my tries so far where just not that successfull. But so far for me mixing of default, smooth legato and the alternate track (which is really nice I think to bring some "live" into it) is the best starting point. But as I said: I am far from what I am looking for


----------



## baggage

Two Male Voicebanks , Ryo & Kevin, have been released for Synthesizer V! Both new vocals are Trilingual, with Ryo being a native Japanese and Kevin being a native English



In addition, there's now an official Dreamtonics store to purchase Synthesizer V Studio Pro, as well as all first party Synthesizer V Voicebanks.
https://store.dreamtonics.com/shop/


----------



## Markrs

Kevin AI is the first convincing Male Synth V voice I have heard. Not many demos of it out yet. The snippet of the song is pretty good/funny as well


----------



## Markrs

baggage said:


> Two Male Voicebanks , Ryo & Kevin, have been released for Synthesizer V! Both new vocals are Trilingual, with Ryo being a native Japanese and Kevin being a native English
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, there's now an official Dreamtonics store to purchase Synthesizer V Studio Pro, as well as all first party Synthesizer V Voicebanks.
> https://store.dreamtonics.com/shop/



I didn't see that you had posted a video of Kevin as well. Kevin and Solaria are very good. Not sure about Ryo, might have to hear other demos.


----------



## StefanoM

szczaw said:


> It's bad news for session singers.


Yes, Maybe in 10 Years, 

UNTIL NOW, what I'm listening to is without "soul" yeah, it's suitable for trash music like that, or a hobby, or for EDM music could be nice because, in general, the voices are edited so heavily with thousand of tuning.

It seems like a bad singer with thousands of Melodyne editing to fix the issues.

Singing is another thing... really another thing.

Maybe for a guy who has a hobby, like music, that could be nice, or also for a DJ.

But a professional guy ( composer, musician) with a budget will always call a real musician o a real singer because a professional session singer has high pricing. So a non-pro-composer or pro-musician doesn't EVER spend 300 euro or more, for session singers. It's valid with Virtual Singer or without Virtual Singer. So I think it's not bad news for the Pro session singers.

Like is not bad news having a lot of great Solo Cello Libraries for Pro Session cellists.

Because usually, a composer search for THAT Cellists or THAT Singer because He wants that "soul."


----------



## Vlzmusic

StefanoM said:


> Yes, Maybe in 10 Years,
> 
> UNTIL NOW, what I'm listening to is without "soul" yeah, it's suitable for trash music like that.
> 
> It seems like a bad singer with thousands of Melodyne editing to fix the issues.
> 
> Singing is another thing... really another thing.
> 
> So maybe for a guy that has like a hobby, the music, that could be nice.
> 
> But a professional guy with a budget, will always call a real musician o a real singer because a professional session singer has high pricing, so a non-pro-composer or musician doesn't spend 300 euro for session singers with Virtual Singer or without Virtual Singer. So I think it's not bad news for session singers.
> 
> Like is not bad news having a lot of great Solo Cello Libraries for Session cellists.


Technically, I disagree. Even now, and even raw output of Solaria, for example, can fool lots and lots of ears. Add music, fx, and you have a vocals in your track, no questions asked. Trash or not - it's in the hands of the author.

Ethically - while I think it will somewhat hurt the business for freelancers, I see it from different perspective really. If my synth sings - that's me singing, that's the closest approximation of how I would record my music, so no hard feelings. Sometimes you want collaboration, but sometimes, it's just you and your material.


----------



## StefanoM

Vlzmusic said:


> Technically, I disagree. Even now, and even raw output of Solaria, for example, can fool lots and lots of ears. Add music, fx, and you have a vocals in your track, no questions asked. Trash or not - it's in the hands of the author.
> 
> Ethically - while I think it will somewhat hurt the business for freelancers, I see it from different perspective really. If my synth sings - that's me singing, that's the closest approximation of how I would record my music, so no hard feelings. Sometimes you want collaboration, but sometimes, it's just you and your material.


The problem is not that it can fool lots and lots of ears; probably yes can fool lots of ears!

But there is a big BUT...

The problem is that it is not singing.... like it is not singing the authentic voices that I hear in many "trash" music, with REAL singers.

So yes, for a lot of contemporary trash music or a lot of low-budget EDM music, it can fool lots and lots of ears, absolutely, and is quite impressive, because the real singers are usually used for that kind of music are in my opinion not so talented or unique. On the other hand, the voices are generally tuned, edited.. etc. So without SOUL.

But singing ( by a great singer ) is another thing.

So that is to answer to: "It's bad news for session singers."

Maybe yes, it's terrible news for the POOR session singers.

The real problem is that in a lot of pop/trash music, the REAL Voices/Singers have been DE-HUMANIZED in general, with thousand of editing and pitch tunning.


----------



## Vlzmusic

StefanoM said:


> The problem is that is not singing.... like is not singing the real voices that I hear in many "trash" music, with REAL singers.
> 
> So yes, for the trash music or a lot of low-budget EDM music, can fool lots and lots of ears, absolutely, and is quite impressive, because the real singers usually used for that kind of music are in my opinion non so good singers, and the voices usually are really tuned, edited.. etc. So without SOUL.


He he, that's philosophical 

I can assure you, that whether or not Synth V will have a soul, depends entirely on the end user. I happen to have twofold background, both in vocals, and VI, so maybe I am not so good example, cause I know that I can achieve a lot with this new iteration of the technology, and I mean a lot lot. And I am not doing EDM.


----------



## naturalahvi

Is commercial use with these sound sets still restricted? There is no EULA on Dreamtonics store.


----------



## Markrs

Another fantastic example of Solaria


----------



## Michel Simons

naturalahvi said:


> Is commercial use with these sound sets still restricted? There is no EULA on Dreamtonics store.


I believe only for the lite versions.


----------



## szczaw

I think capturing more emotion and more nuances should be possible, but the cost and development time would increase substantially. Is there any info on the process of developing voices for synth V ?


----------



## pianistje

I listen a lot to modern pop and the usage of autotune and whatever effects have turned most tunes in soulless affairs anyway and most tunes do sound like synth voices to some extent. But when I listen to Floor Jansen (Nightwish) who has covered a lot of pop songs lately the difference between her and my Synthesizer V voices is huge. A pity she won’t sing for me though…


----------



## szczaw

szczaw said:


> Here's Lucy. I bought synth V, but I can't run it in win 7
> 
> View attachment King Beneath no crunch.mp3


Lucy vs human
View attachment human.mp3


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

The bundle is marked "sale"---does that mean it's only for a limited time, and if so, anyone know when? The non-sale bundle price is just the sum of the prices of the individual products.


----------



## KarlHeinz

szczaw said:


> Lucy vs human
> View attachment human.mp3


O.k., now I know its to blame on me and not Lucy .

Thanks for this amazing example. 

Is this only editing inside of Emvoice or lot ot additional editing inside daw, effects, whatever (I dont mean for "sound" but what changes the voice really if you know what I mean) ? If so would be great if you could share what this mainly has been.


----------



## Michael AD

StefanoM said:


> The problem is that it is not singing.... like it is not singing the authentic voices that I hear in many "trash" music, with REAL singers.


This technology needs to be accepted for what it is. We know that a sampled violin is not a real violin, but we know that most folks will accept (consciously or unconsciously) what it represents.

And regarding the question of a simulated voice not having soul, does any VST instrument have soul?


----------



## szczaw

KarlHeinz said:


> O.k., now I know its to blame on me and not Lucy .
> 
> Thanks for this amazing example.
> 
> Is this only editing inside of Emvoice or lot ot additional editing inside daw, effects, whatever (I dont mean for "sound" but what changes the voice really if you know what I mean) ? If so would be great if you could share what this mainly has been.


Thank you ! There's not much editing you can do in Emvoice. Just enter text and notes, it's dead simple. There's eq, compressor, ToneBoosters Enhancer and reverb applied to the audio.

That turned out to be pretty damn loud as I tend to keep increasing volume when I work on something, and without realizing, the sound just blasts.


----------



## StefanoM

Michael AD said:


> This technology needs to be accepted for what it is. We know that a sampled violin is not a real violin, but we know that most folks will accept (consciously or unconsciously) what it represents.
> 
> And regarding the question of a simulated voice not having soul, does any VST instrument have soul?



The subject is long and complex. My speech was related to the phrase:

"It's a problem for session singers."

To me, this awesome technology is not a problem for the reasons that I've talked about before, for the same reason that a sampled violin or sampled vocals are not a problem.

And Exactly any VST doesn't have a "soul"

but with the traditional sampling (with some limitation of course), well, Yes, because you can "capture" that, particular musician, singer, and you can capture that real Human "interpretation", and even if with the limitations... the "soul", in a Vocal Synth for now.... is a little bit different, and is not in "real-time".

Anyway,

Cheers


----------



## KarlHeinz

szczaw said:


> There's not much editing you can do in Emvoice. Just enter text and notes, it's dead simple.


Thats why I asked and was wondering. I have not tried to do a version of an existing song but only some sketching on an existing melody and put some simple englisch mantra words on it, so I think its really to blame me for setting of notes/words that makes it sounding "unnatural". Thanks a lot, so now I know much better where I have to try and improve things and that it - mainly - really could be done with Lucy and that simple Emvoice editor capabilities


----------



## Getsumen

szczaw said:


> I think capturing more emotion and more nuances should be possible, but the cost and development time would increase substantially. Is there any info on the process of developing voices for synth V ?


It's closed for now and it seems Dreamtonics has no plans to really open it up. Solaria was one of the few cases where they allowed third parties to develop for it. 

The cost of developing and complexity I presume makes it pretty nonviable to open it up and develop better tools since the vast majority of people won't use it. Any serious developer would probably just contact them directly.

I do wish though that some large dev goes full out with a lot more sample content. I'm not sure how many pitches they're recording phonemes for right now, nor the consistency (It really does seem that certain pitches are handled better than others) but if they release a singer with a higher degree of sampled content I really feel like the results would be great. Too bad SynthV is probably too niche to justify a high production cost


----------



## szczaw

KarlHeinz said:


> Thats why I asked and was wondering. I have not tried to do a version of an existing song but only some sketching on an existing melody and put some simple englisch mantra words on it, so I think its really to blame me for setting of notes/words that makes it sounding "unnatural". Thanks a lot, so now I know much better where I have to try and improve things and that it - mainly - really could be done with Lucy and that simple Emvoice editor capabilities


Well, my intent was to get an arrangement down for rerecording and not to make it as realistic as possible. Synth V is more realistic. Emvoice is probably (I haven't tried synth V pro) faster and easier to use.


----------



## Tim_Wells

Obviously, this is not going to replace a high quality, expressive singer. But I think the applications will go far beyond hobbyists.

I've heard stuff on local TV commercials that sounds much worse than this ... and I live in Nashville.


----------



## szczaw

Getsumen said:


> I do wish though that some large dev goes full out with a lot more sample content.


Absolutely. EW has a history of putting a lot of effort into 'wordbuilders' and they seem to be open to collaborations. Synth V blows their sample smearing out of the water.


----------



## Markrs

Dreamtonics now have their own store where you can buy Synthesizer V and Voice Databases.









Homepage - Dreamtonics Store


こちらのストアはご購入後のサポートを含め、すべて英語での対応となります。日本語でのご対応をご希望のお客様は、「AHSダウンロード」をご利用くださいませ。For customers from Japan: Please purchase from AHS Download for localized support. New Products Editor and Bundles English Voices Japanese Voices Chinese Voices




store.dreamtonics.com


----------



## David Cuny

I got the *Kevin* voice this morning.

After I authorized it, the _SynthesizerV Pro Studio_ and commercial voices I had previously authorized lost their authorization.

Re-authorizing is just a matter of re-entering the license key for all _SynthesizerV Studio _and the commercial voices. But it was unsettling, to say the least.






You don't even have to paste the code in - just copy it into the buffer. If you're on an authorization screen and _SynthesizerV_ sees a valid key in the buffer, it'll paste it in automatically.

I wrote to Dreamtonics, who indicated that the re-authorization doesn't count as an additional authorization.

Other people have had this problem with the *Kevin* voice, but not any other voices. For example, I just bought and authorized the *Ryo* voice, and didn't see any issues.

Hopefully Dreamtonics resolves this quickly.


----------



## Markrs

David Cuny said:


> I got the *Kevin* voice this morning.
> 
> After I authorized it, the _SynthesizerV Pro Studio_ and commercial voices I had previously authorized lost their authorization.
> 
> Re-authorizing is just a matter of re-entering the license key for all _SynthesizerV Studio _and the commercial voices. But it was unsettling, to say the least.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't even have to paste the code in - just copy it into the buffer. If you're on an authorization screen and _SynthesizerV_ sees a valid key in the buffer, it'll paste it in automatically.
> 
> I wrote to Dreamtonics, who indicated that the re-authorization doesn't count as an additional authorization.
> 
> Other people have had this problem with the *Kevin* voice, but not any other voices. Hopefully they resolve this quickly.


Be interested to know your thoughts on the Kevin voice.


----------



## David Cuny

Getsumen said:


> I do wish though that some large dev goes full out with a lot more sample content. I'm not sure how many pitches they're recording phonemes for right now, nor the consistency (It really does seem that certain pitches are handled better than others) but if they release a singer with a higher degree of sampled content I really feel like the results would be great. Too bad SynthV is probably too niche to justify a high production cost


There's already high degree of sample content that goes into the making of these voices.

I suspect the "handling pitches" has more to do with the synthesis engine than the recordings themselves.

Although the specific details are proprietary, there is _some _information available.

The "lite" voices are sampled at a single pitch.

Full versions are recorded at either 3 or 4 pitches. Phonemes are sampled as diphones, and the recording list consists of words. 

By "diphones", I mean there has to be a recording of every phoneme in the language transitioning to every other phoneme. Each diphone actually has at least _three_ recordings, so that alternate takes are available.

For English, _SynthesizerV_ uses the ARPABet, which has about ~20 vowels and ~35 consonants. There are some phonemes not in the original ARPABet such as */tx/* and */dx/* for handling glottal taps, and so on.

That's something like 3000 diphones to get coverage for English, which is a _lot_ of diphones!

And that's not including the actual singing that's used to train the "auto-tune" feature.


----------



## Ivan M.

Markrs said:


> Dreamtonics now have their own store where you can buy Synthesizer V and Voice Databases.


They are incredibly confusing. I've downloaded the app, but there are no voice banks. I remember having some default voice on my previous computer. The voice banks listed on their website lead to different stores/websites, some of which have no english localization. I have no clue what to do with all that.


----------



## David Cuny

Markrs said:


> Be interested to know your thoughts on the Kevin voice.


To my ears, vowels, like */ah/* as in "hut" and */uh/* as in "hood" sound off, which makes me wonder if English is the voice provider's primary language.

In the lower register, it's a bit buzzy and nasal - almost Canadian.

I've also got the Ryo AI voice. The cross-lingual feature gives him very good English, but there are still traces of an accent - especially in the */r/*. It's pretty subtle, but it's there.

They are certainly usable, but expect them to be a bit "off" in places.


----------



## David Cuny

Ivan M. said:


> They are incredibly confusing. I've downloaded the app, but there are no voice banks. I remember having some default voice on my previous computer. The voice banks listed on their website lead to different stores/websites, some of which have no english localization. I have no clue what to do with all that.


The cross-lingual feature that allows AI voices to work across multiple languages is only available if you've got the Pro version of the Studio.

If you're using the Basic version of the Studio, you're limited to the version of the language that the voices was originally recorded in. At this point, there only a couple of voices that are in English, with *Eleanor Forte* being recorded by a native English speaker.

You can find find Lite voices here:

https://resource.dreamtonics.com/download/Voice Databases/

There's are two "Lite" versions of *Tsurumaki Maki *English you will also find the in the folder in the link above. Note these aren't cross-lingual, so they'll be heavily accented English.

There's a Lite version of *ANRI AI* that can be found here:






ANRI [LITE] - Google Drive







drive.google.com





I don't know of any other Lite English voices that are currently available.


----------



## Ivan M.

David Cuny said:


> You can find find Lite voices here:
> 
> https://resource.dreamtonics.com/download/Voice Databases/


Thank you! 

Do you know if there are any limitations for the lite voices (there's no terms file), like prohibiting commercial use and work title requirements (like they have for anri lite)?


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Ivan M. said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Do you know if there are any limitations for the lite voices (there's no terms file), like prohibiting commercial use and work title requirements (like they have for anri lite)?


People are debating this on this forum and others. I think it's a big issue to get through the legal dept for any big ad agency or corporation who might find it fun to have a Synthesizer-V singing in a TV ad. Hopefully they will clarify soon.

Emvoice's policy is simple.

_Can I use your voices for commercial projects?
_
Absolutely, you can do this even as a demo mode user. If you’re generating lyrics or melodies that are already copyrighted, you will need permission from the rights holder. If your musical content is original, you can use Emvoice for commercial projects just as you can with most other virtual instruments.

Also:

I have Synthesizer V Studio (the free version) and it only works as a Standalone. No VST installer or .dll file. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have to buy the Professional version to get it as a VST. 

I think with products of this nature, it's all about what you plan to use them for. I've got a YouTube video coming out this week that's about Emvoice One. The video will briefly discuss Synthesizer V... because I can't leave that out. I agree that Synthesizer V is the best choice for anybody who is trying to push the envelope in "realistic" virtual voices in popular music. But I have zero interest in doing that. In most cases, I'll use real voices to sing entire songs. (However, I recently did a Betty Page video, and I was very happy with the way Realivox Blue sang "Beh-tee.") But there are other uses for a virtual voice. Emvoice is definitely cheaper, and for my purposes, easier.


----------



## hummersallad

Ivan M. said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Do you know if there are any limitations for the lite voices (there's no terms file), like prohibiting commercial use and work title requirements (like they have for anri lite)?


Some information here: https://resource.dreamtonics.com/download/
And here regarding Solaria: https://www.eclipsedsounds.com/solaria-license


----------



## RogiervG

hummersallad said:


> Some information here: https://resource.dreamtonics.com/download/
> And here regarding Solaria: https://www.eclipsedsounds.com/solaria-license


Wow that license is very restrictive... and odd even. PASS for me (at all times)


----------



## Markrs

hummersallad said:


> Some information here: https://resource.dreamtonics.com/download/
> And here regarding Solaria: https://www.eclipsedsounds.com/solaria-license


"If the user of Synthesizer V SOLARIA is a legal entity like a corporation or business who wishes to use Synthesizer V SOLARIA in public works of any kind, an additional licence must be secured from Eclipsed Sounds, with restrictions based on the type of usage. This is particularly for any usage in corporate advertisement or advertising materials."

It is a bit tricky as many composers will be a company in the legal sense and if you license your track to a music library to be used in commercial products like adverts, it could be very tricky as to whether that is allowed.


----------



## Ivan M.

Terms pop up when installing a voice, here something:


> 3. If the natural person users apply the synthesized voice generated by or role copyright image included in this product for commercial purpose, and the situation involves more than *USD 1,000*, Or if the user is Corporation or legal entity, *the obligation to notify AnimenJP* will occur. AnimenJP will sign *additional User License Agreement* with such users according to the users’ use purpose (licensing fees might be produced according to the agreement situations).
> 
> A. Use in commercial multimedia video works, including but not limited to advertising image, network video, animation, film, TV series, television program, and game, as well as all of the above situations can be deemed to use the synthesized voice generated by or role copyright image included in this product during expression and communication behaviors.
> 
> B. Use in commercial music products sold by the legal person, including but not limited to CD, DVD, disc, audio tape, MD, hard disk, flash memory, IC memory card, and other recording contents (hereinafter referred to as commercial music products) produced by the legal person or third party under its entrustment; all of the above situations can be deemed to download and use the contents published or provided after using the synthesized voice of this product.


This is pseudo-english, the sentences make no sense to me. Also, how do I know the terms of the full versions before I buy (it's shown only when installing), I don't want this "notify us" thing.
Moreover, there's a bunch of different company names popping up all over the place.
Good technology, bad legal.


----------



## Ivan M.

Reid Rosefelt said:


> Emvoice's policy is simple.


Thanks for the suggestion, I've tried to demo it, but it doesn't work, it simply won't accept text input.



Reid Rosefelt said:


> I think with products of this nature, it's all about what you plan to use them for.


I only need voice gen. for one track. Can't justify spending money on these synths. But, maybe they would inspire me to write for voice, who knows, might be fun...
However, until they sort their technical and legal problems first I'm not giving them a penny


----------



## KarlHeinz

Ivan M. said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, I've tried to demo it, but it doesn't work, it simply won't accept text input.


I am sure you did but as I have that problem maybe......have you hit "Return" after entering text ? Otherwise if you just leave for the next note/text input it will be gone.


----------



## Ivan M.

KarlHeinz said:


> I am sure you did but as I have that problem maybe......have you hit "Return" after entering text ? Otherwise if you just leave for the next note/text input it will be gone.


Oh, it's the opposite here: if I hit enter/return, it reverts to whatever was there before, I have to tab or click in the empty space for it to accept new input.


----------



## Michel Simons

David Cuny said:


> The cross-lingual feature that allows AI voices to work across multiple languages is only available if you've got the Pro version of the Studio.
> 
> If you're using the Basic version of the Studio, you're limited to voices that are "native" English.
> 
> You can find find Lite voices here:
> 
> https://resource.dreamtonics.com/download/Voice Databases/
> 
> There's are two "Lite" versions of *Tsurumaki Maki *English you will also find the in the folder in the link above. Note these aren't cross-lingual, so they'll be heavily accented English.
> 
> There's a Lite version of *ANRI AI* that can be found here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ANRI [LITE] - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know of any other Lite English voices that are currently available.


Of course there is also Eleanor (AI) lite.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Michel Simons said:


> Of course there is also Eleanor (AI) lite.


Unfortunately Lite versions are very different to the full ones, to the point of misrepresenting the whole progress Synth V has made. I'd rather make limited range demo versions of the full or something, than promote with those Lite versions.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Ivan M. said:


> until they sort their technical and legal problems first I'm not giving them a penny


*Technical Problems: * If you download Emvoice One and try to use it, you will probably be frustrated. I was. I had to learn a few things to make it work. It has very few features, so there's very little to learn. I will teach everything there is to know in my video, which should come out later this week. I'm not going to say it's intuitive software, but it's also not hard when you get the hang of it. And the developers are very open to suggestions on how to improve it.

*Legal Problems:* There are no legal issues for commercial use with Emvoice at all. They clearly state on their site that you have all commercial rights, even with the free version. They encourage you to use it commercially.

The legal issues with Synthesizer V are complicated and are likely to remain so, because one company makes it and some voices, and at least two companies make more voices. In time there will no doubt be a more companies making voices, with different rules. And once people do make money from this technology: what happens if you have to pay Dreamtonics for the software and the voice company for the voice? It's possible.

I paid for my copy of Lucy. I've accepted NFRs in the past, but never again. I want to feel free to give my honest opinion, which will be telling people that, if they want to push the envelope on what is possible with a virtual vocalist--buy Synthesizer V. Emvoice is the better choice for me, but maybe not you. Try both free demos. The Emvoice demo is full featured, but only eight notes. The free version of Synthesizer V is great, but the voices aren't as good as the ones in Pro, so it's hard to make a judgment--but I'm sure people are having fun making songs with it.


----------



## Jimgue

Reid Rosefelt said:


> The free version of Synthesizer V is great


Thanks for the info you've written about these products. Is the free version of SynthV that's bundled with a paid voice (i.e. Solaria comes with Synth V basic) much more limited than if you use a paid voice in the Pro version? Trying to figure out if it's the Lite version of the voice that's limiting or the basic version of the program (in other words is it worth paying for the pro version if you are also paying for a voicebank?).


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Jimgue said:


> Thanks for the info you've written about these products. Is the free version of SynthV that's bundled with a paid voice (i.e. Solaria comes with Synth V basic) much more limited than if you use a paid voice in the Pro version? Trying to figure out if it's the Lite version of the voice that's limiting or the basic version of the program (in other words is it worth paying for the pro version if you are also paying for a voicebank?).


I don't own Synth V, but my understanding is that you get a full voice, not the simplified voices that come free. But you don't have all the features of the pro software. 





Personally, I wouldn't consider getting Synth V without having it available as a plugin.


----------



## David Cuny

Markrs said:


> "If the user of Synthesizer V SOLARIA is a legal entity like a corporation or business who wishes to use Synthesizer V SOLARIA in public works of any kind, an additional licence must be secured from Eclipsed Sounds, with restrictions based on the type of usage. This is particularly for any usage in corporate advertisement or advertising materials."
> 
> It is a bit tricky as many composers will be a company in the legal sense and if you license your track to a music library to be used in commercial products like adverts, it could be very tricky as to whether that is allowed.



IANAL, but the contract - just prior to this clause - says that a legal entity that is a _"natural person"_ has _*exactly *_those rights you're asking about.

For example, in the _Solaria_ contract:

_2. Natural person users can use the synthesized voice generated by or role copyright image included in this product under non-commercial or commercial situations for activities, creation, work spreading, publication, etc._

The clause of the contract you're referring to creates an exception when the legal entity _is *not* a "natural person", _but instead is _"like a corporation or business"_.


----------



## David Cuny

Jimgue said:


> Thanks for the info you've written about these products. Is the free version of SynthV that's bundled with a paid voice (i.e. Solaria comes with Synth V basic) much more limited than if you use a paid voice in the Pro version? Trying to figure out if it's the Lite version of the voice that's limiting or the basic version of the program (in other words is it worth paying for the pro version if you are also paying for a voicebank?).


The prohibition for commercial use of voices refers to the Lite voices only.

If you want to use the voices for commercial use, you need to buy them.

I don't think you'll get much disagreement that's a reasonable prohibition. 

The Pro version of the _Studio _unlocks features such as access to alternate phonemes, cross-lingual synthesis, scripting, and so on.


----------



## David Cuny

Michel Simons said:


> Of course there is also Eleanor (AI) lite.


Thanks, somehow that information disappear when I was editing. I've put it in, and changed the use of "native" so it's more clear.


----------



## David Cuny

Ivan M. said:


> Terms pop up when installing a voice, here something:
> 
> This is pseudo-english, the sentences make no sense to me. Also, how do I know the terms of the full versions before I buy (it's shown only when installing), I don't want this "notify us" thing.
> Moreover, there's a bunch of different company names popping up all over the place.
> Good technology, bad legal.


Yes, this is super-confusing. I've raised it this issue on this forum and the Dreamtonics before, and asked for clarification.

The contract is referring to the use of the *copyright image* for commercial use. The clauses are badly phrased, and differ slightly from the Japanese version of the contract. According to the contract, where they differ, the Japanese version takes precedence. Which means the $1000USD is a bit lower, because the Japanese version refers to Yen, not USD. 

So if you don't use the copyright image, this doesn't apply.


----------



## Markrs

David Cuny said:


> IANAL, but the contract - just prior to this clause - says that a legal entity that is a _"natural person"_ has _*exactly *_those rights you're asking about.
> 
> For example, in the _Solaria_ contract:
> 
> _2. Natural person users can use the synthesized voice generated by or role copyright image included in this product under non-commercial or commercial situations for activities, creation, work spreading, publication, etc._
> 
> The clause of the contract you're referring to creates an exception when the legal entity _is *not* a "natural person", _but instead is _"like a corporation or business"_.


I know where your coming from, but what I think it is not really that clear. Certainly anyone who runs as a limited company, which would be many composers, are absolutely a business in the legal sense, as they will be taxed that way. You might be the owner of the business but you are seen in law as an employee of the company and not a "Natural person", in the way they have phrased things.

To be honest the legal contract is so ambiguous I am pretty sure it would not stand up in any UK court. I'm not a lawyer (I know some basic contract law) but the law generally hate ambiguity in contacts and tend to invalidate them when they see it.


----------



## soulofsound

David Cuny said:


> Yes, this is super-confusing. I've raised it this issue on this forum and the Dreamtonics before, and asked for clarification.
> 
> The contract is referring to the use of the *copyright image* for commercial use. The clauses are badly phrased, and differ slightly from the Japanese version of the contract. According to the contract, where they differ, the Japanese version takes precedence. Which means the $1000USD is a bit lower, because the Japanese version refers to Yen, not USD.
> 
> So if you don't use the copyright image, this doesn't apply.


Dreamtonics answered me on this by email and said this:
_Our license states that any individual person who wishes to use SOLARIA commercially may do so without limit, and that there is only the need to contact us for an additional license if a corporation, business, or other legal entity (e.g. Google, Crypton Future Media, Dreamtonics) wants to utilize the voice in a public work or advertisement. If you are an independent musician who wishes to utilize the SOLARIA voice library, you are free to release any of your works commercially with her. I hope that this clarified your question._


----------



## soulofsound

Markrs said:


> I know where your coming from, but what I think it is not really that clear. Certainly anyone who runs as a limited company, which would be many composers, are absolutely a business in the legal sense, as they will be taxed that way. You might be the owner of the business but you are seen in law as an employee of the company and not a "Natural person", in the way they have phrased things.
> 
> To be honest the legal contract is so ambiguous I am pretty sure it would not stand up in any UK court. I'm not a lawyer (I know some basic contract law) but the law generally hate ambiguity in contacts and tend to invalidate them when they see it.


Yes, i figured this, too. I asked Dreamtonics the following question:
_As an independent musician i will of course have a business, too. This meaning of the word business is not meant when you state that companies need an additional license?_

To which they replied:
_You are correct. We hope that this information can be helpful to both you and other musicians. If you have any further questions please let me know._


----------



## Markrs

soulofsound said:


> Yes, i figured this, too. I asked Dreamtonics the following question:
> _As an independent musician i will of course have a business, too. This meaning of the word business is not meant when you state that companies need an additional license?_
> 
> To which they replied:
> _You are correct. We hope that this information can be helpful to both you and other musicians. If you have any further questions please let me know._


I glad they clarified things, and hopefully that will reduce some concerns many will have.

In the future it would be good if there terms and conditions were a lot clearer and ideally not have the current caveats about companies using it for things like advertising. Like with sample libraries I really think a company should be free to use this license for all commercial work, with needing further licences from Dreamtonics or any producer of Vocal Databases.


----------



## soulofsound

Markrs said:


> I glad they clarified things, and hopefully Ttash will reduce some concerns many will have.
> 
> In the future it would be good if there terms and conditions were a lot clearer and ideally not have the current caveats about companies using it for things like advertising. Like with sample libraries I really think a company should be free to use this license for all commercial work, with needing further licences from Dreamtonics or any producer of Vocal Databases.


My thoughts exactly. Without clearer conditions there remains an arbitrary component to the license they can use to whatever end suits them. I don't expect to write a big hit, but if you are, this is not the software to use.


----------



## szczaw

soulofsound said:


> My thoughts exactly. Without clearer conditions there remains an arbitrary component to the license they can use to whatever end suits them. I don't expect to write a big hit, but if you are, this is not the software to use.


Use the software and rerecord the output with a real singer.


----------



## Markrs

szczaw said:


> Use the software and rerecord the output with a real singer.


Yep, I think that is the approach to take, which will improve the quality of any song as well. However as the tech gets better improving the quality of the voices it would be nice to not have to do that, especially if costs are an issue (getting a singer would add quite a bit to the costs of a track).


----------



## szczaw

The software can handle demos. If there's commercial potential there, rerecord. These days, it's easy and not that expensive.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Ryo in English:





Can really hear the accent on some syllables. Apparently they might "fix" that in a future update? (Might be cool if they eventually added an "accent" slider, at least for the language it was recorded in.)


----------



## Getsumen

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Ryo in English:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can really hear the accent on some syllabes. Apparently they might "fix" that in a future update? (Might be cool if they eventually added an "accent" slider, at least for the language it was recorded in.)



Ryo is quite a lot more noisier in English. Hopefully, that's something they address as well


----------



## Pier-V

Bee_Abney said:


> If you wanted to go crazy with the editing, you could spectrally morph the synth voice with a sample of the desired vowel sound. I've only had sporadic success with vowel morphing with the tools I have. But, once it allows importing user samples, Soundpaint might be able to handle it.


Somehow I completely missed this suggestion! I have a feeling this idea could have a lot of potential, and not only with vowel morphing but especially with _voicebank_ morphing. Yes, I'm talking about Solaria becoming 10% more Eleanor for a split second, to get timbral variation in the low register without phasing issues, just to give a tiny example.

It would behave like some sort of 8th function, and yes, it would be extremely experimental but who knows what may emerge from such an umpredictable behaviour... Also, note that this would be quite tricky to do with real voices, while voicebanks can be programmed exactly in the same way, including pitch automation. Could this be a possible route to improve expressiveness in unexpected ways?

About Soundpaint, I admit I've not done proper research on that plugin so I don't know if that would be feasible in a practical way, however both Kontakt's AET filters and Morph 2 come to mind, and I'm sure there are many others able to do that specific operation:


----------



## David Cuny

I think that voice cloning is even more exciting than morphing.

Voice cloning works by using a corpus of thousands of hours of examples of speech to create a parameter space. It can then take an example of an individual's voice, and map it to the parameter space.

With the voice is mapped to a feature space, the voice can be synthesized with those particular features. Here's an example of a project that can clone voices by using only five seconds of the target voice:









GitHub - CorentinJ/Real-Time-Voice-Cloning: Clone a voice in 5 seconds to generate arbitrary speech in real-time


Clone a voice in 5 seconds to generate arbitrary speech in real-time - GitHub - CorentinJ/Real-Time-Voice-Cloning: Clone a voice in 5 seconds to generate arbitrary speech in real-time




github.com


----------



## Pier-V

@David Cuny I've given a quick look to the Youtube video attached inside the link, tomorrow I'll do things more in detail. However, even after a superficial analysis it's already appearent that this has an amazing potential as well, going even beyond the scope of what I originally had in mind!

I've never said this explicitly but I'm absolutely in love with neural networks and I've followed their development since the storic match when Lee Sedol was beaten by AlphaGo, so thanks for pointing this one out. The only potential problem I see at the moment, for music at least, is that this method is still too prone to generate little but noticeable artifacts. Not a problem for experimental music but a huge bottleneck if you want to create a solid sense of realism imho.
Of course, considering the alarming rate at which this technology is being developed I wouldn't be surprised if I'll be laughing at what I'm typing here one or two years from now - and I really hope that will be the case 

EDIT - The irony: I was wondering if the Youtube channel "Two minute papers" covered this topic but I've not even finished writing yet and the spooky Youtube algorhythm, which is probably directed by _yet another neural network_, read my mind and autoplayed this right after:



Is this the same technology? It does seem so


----------



## David Cuny

Pier-V said:


> Is this the same technology? It does seem so


Yes, the Two Minute Paper was pretty superficial, so I figured it would be better to point directly to the project.

Singing synthesis is different in some fundamental ways from vocal synthesis. With vocal synthesis, you're creating all the prosody of the speech: pitch, duration, and phonemes - from plain text input.

In singing synthesis, the pitch, duration, and phonemes are all specified.

So the core problem to solve is the smooth connection of phonemes. That's something that concatonative synthesis has solved pretty well, and that's the "Standard" approach that _SynthesizerV_ uses.

One use of neural networks in _SynthesizerV _to replace the database that's needed for concatonative synthesis. However, the quality of the output is noticeably _worse_, both in terms of frequency and temporal resolution. But the result is typically good enough for our hearing, which is limited.

One of the other things that _SynthesizerV_ got right was the encoding of voice information. It stores harmonic and non-harmonic information in a way that allows it to be resynthesized without the sort of audio glitches you're hearing the in vocal cloning project.

_SynthesizerV_ is doing a number of other interesting things with neural networks, including learning to apply singing styles, and performing cross-lingual synthesis.

But at it's core, the scope of singing synthesis is much smaller than the full speech synthesis problem.


----------



## Werty

David Cuny said:


> Yes, the Two Minute Paper was pretty superficial, so I figured it would be better to point directly to the project.
> 
> Singing synthesis is different in some fundamental ways from vocal synthesis. With vocal synthesis, you're creating all the prosody of the speech: pitch, duration, and phonemes - from plain text input.
> 
> In singing synthesis, the pitch, duration, and phonemes are all specified.
> 
> So the core problem to solve is the smooth connection of phonemes. That's something that concatonative synthesis has solved pretty well, and that's the "Standard" approach that _SynthesizerV_ uses.
> 
> One use of neural networks in _SynthesizerV _to replace the database that's needed for concatonative synthesis. However, the quality of the output is noticeably _worse_, both in terms of frequency and temporal resolution. But the result is typically good enough for our hearing, which is limited.
> 
> One of the other things that _SynthesizerV_ got right was the encoding of voice information. It stores harmonic and non-harmonic information in a way that allows it to be resynthesized without the sort of audio glitches you're hearing the in vocal cloning project.
> 
> _SynthesizerV_ is doing a number of other interesting things with neural networks, including learning to apply singing styles, and performing cross-lingual synthesis.
> 
> But at it's core, the scope of singing synthesis is much smaller than the full speech synthesis problem.


Considering how difficult is for a voice,_ SynthesizerV _should sample any instrument vst.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Werty said:


> Considering how difficult is for a voice,_ SynthesizerV _should sample any instrument vst.


Exactly. The situation has become ridiculous, when the most difficult task in VI industry, now has much better results than orchestral instruments.


----------



## Tom Ferguson

Werty said:


> Considering how difficult is for a voice,_ SynthesizerV _should sample any instrument vst.


It would at least be very interesting to see how these techniques could be applied to orchestral instruments in a space. The acoustics are the biggest things that will be different compared to these vocal libraries.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Tom Ferguson said:


> It would at least be very interesting to see how these techniques could be applied to orchestral instruments in a space. The acoustics are the biggest things that will be different compared to these vocal libraries.



Is that not what MIR addresses? And Precedence and DearVR?

At any rate, there is a lot of work on virtual spaces that should help, though I don't imagine it comes close to matching recording the instruments in a space.


----------



## Tom Ferguson

Bee_Abney said:


> Is that not what MIR addresses? And Precedence and DearVR?
> 
> At any rate, there is a lot of work on virtual spaces that should help, though I don't imagine it comes close to matching recording the instruments in a space.


Well they definitely attempt to, debatable how successful they are yet. I'm sure they will get there though either way. I think how dry samples are recorded is probably just as important to how successful virtual rooms can be as much the actual room sims are themselves.

You are right I was thinking in the idiom of recorded in the correct space libraries compared to dry libraries like the infinite/swam series, where this would potentially be able to take those libraries to a whole new level while ignoring the acoustics issue. I don't know how much of an effect acoustics (long tails) would have on these techniques or not, but regardless I'd love to see attempts!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Tom Ferguson said:


> Well they definitely attempt to, debatable how successful they are yet. I'm sure they will get there though either way. I think how dry samples are recorded is probably just as important to how successful virtual rooms can be as much the actual room sims are themselves.
> 
> You are right I was thinking in the idiom of recorded in the correct space libraries compared to dry libraries like the infinite/swam series, where this would potentially be able to take those libraries to a whole new level while ignoring the acoustics issue. I don't know how much of an effect would have on these techniques or not, but regardless I'd love to see attempts!



Ah, yes, if the aim is to resynthesise wet libraries, there would be a lot of work to do. Some kind of spectral mapping, I suppose, with programming taking account of all the variables of different series of notes, velocities and styles and then re-creating the room along with the notes.

That's way beyond what I was thinking of!


----------



## Casiquire

pianistje said:


> I listen a lot to modern pop and the usage of autotune and whatever effects have turned most tunes in soulless affairs anyway and most tunes do sound like synth voices to some extent. But when I listen to Floor Jansen (Nightwish) who has covered a lot of pop songs lately the difference between her and my Synthesizer V voices is huge. A pity she won’t sing for me though…


She is one of my favorite singers to ever live. Her vocal abilities are absolutely mind-blowing


----------



## David Cuny

Werty said:


> Considering how difficult is for a voice,_ SynthesizerV _should sample any instrument vst.


The vocal production mechanism is unlike that of other musical instruments.

A solution specific to the voice wouldn't necessarily apply to other instruments that have fundamentally different means of producing sound.

And it certainly doesn't address the space the instrument is recorded in. In fact, the source recordings have to be very dry, because room acoustics confuses the algorithm.

Or am I misunderstanding the question?


----------



## Knute5

Late to the convo but I am in love with Synth V (Solaria and Kevin w/ various formant/aspect tweaking) and emVoice to a lesser extent. But both have bridged a major vocal gap I sought to fill with Vocaloid which I could get close (ok for rough sketches) but never to a shareable state without a ton of apologies up front. 

Wrangling with Votox on EW Choirs as well. The worst option was listening to my own voice which is fair but just pulls me out of any objective creation into pure self consciousness. My poor wife has witnessed me buried in the studio resurrecting some stalled pieces now that I can flesh out the vocal layers. It's like a new lease on life for some of my songs and it's a joy to bring them to life.


----------



## Bee_Abney

David Cuny said:


> The vocal production mechanism is unlike that of other musical instruments.
> 
> A solution specific to the voice wouldn't necessarily apply to other instruments that have fundamentally different means of producing sound.
> 
> And it certainly doesn't address the space the instrument is recorded in. In fact, the source recordings have to be very dry, because room acoustics confuses the algorithm.
> 
> Or am I misunderstanding the question?



Not at all. 

We were taking it for granted that this technology wouldn't address room tones. So, you are adding that there is reason to think it couldn't work with it.

As for other instruments, the programmable element of SynthesiserV might have an application there. But how much would have to be returned is a further question. As is whether this is an avenue worth pursuing for, say, woodwinds or strings.


----------



## David Cuny

Bee_Abney said:


> We were taking it for granted that this technology wouldn't address room tones. So, you are adding that there is reason to think it couldn't work with it.



*tldr: *This approach only works with vocal sounds, and doesn't disentagle room convolutions.


The reconstruction process uses a vocoder with synthetic glottal pulses as the carrier signal.

This approach takes the audio, slices it into small chunks, and then performs a DFT (Discrete Fourier Transform) to determine the harmonic and inharmonic content. This is pretty standard stuff.

The harmonic analysis captures the *filter* portion of the *source -> filter* model.

Any artifact in the audio - such as room reverberation - is captured in the analysis. So it's "baked into" the data. The reconstruction of the audio will perform time stretching, so that's a bad thing, because you're going to time-stretch any embedded echos.

Plus, the resynthesis is going to reconstruct the target data by reassembling a bunch of snippets of audio, so you can imagine what a mess _that's_ going to be. The segments are going to be smoothed in the process, but it'll create some unwanted artifacts when it connects arbitrary reverberations.

Unfortunately, the *source* data are _also_ baked into the audio. Since phase information is also recovered by the DFT, it's relatively easy to reconstruct the original signal. But if you want a pitch shifted version of the signal? Not so much. You need to figure out how to disentangle the glottal pulse from the speech signal.

Heavily glossing things over, I'll just say that current approaches use neural networks to estimate what that glottal pulse looks like.

But the assumption built into this model is that the source signal _looks like a glottal pulse_. The algorithm will do it's best to make sure that any harmonic sound coming _out_ of the process sounds like it was produced vocally.

That produces some... _interesting_ artifacts if you put non-vocal sounds in. 

Also, this process only really focuses on capturing phonemes. If you wanted to "properly" capture legato information, you'd need legato transitions from every phoneme to every other phoneme, at every pitch interval you wanted.


----------



## szczaw

Knute5 said:


> The worst option was listening to my own voice which is fair but just pulls me out of any objective creation into pure self consciousness.


You can sing, but prefer to use software instead ?! That's interesting. I can't sing to save my life, but I like songs and the sound of human voice.


----------



## chapbot

I just got SynthV and Solaria and I'm surprised at how quickly you can get "her" to sound realistic.

After reading through the forum am I correct in understanding there is some sort of code or algorithm you can import to make it sound more realistic?

It looks like somebody earlier on the forum gave an example where he recorded himself singing and somehow imported it and applied the contours of the live vocal to the SynthV voice?

This is all correct where would I begin to figure out how to apply a recorded live vocal to SynthV? Thanks for any tips!


----------



## David Cuny

chapbot said:


> After reading through the forum am I correct in understanding there is some sort of code or algorithm you can import to make it sound more realistic?


The Pro Studio allows scripting in JavaScript and Lua.

Hataori has written a set of tools that use the free vocal analysis program Praat to import pitch information from an audio file into _SynthesizerV_.


----------



## Knute5

szczaw said:


> You can sing, but prefer to use software instead ?! That's interesting. I can't sing to save my life, but I like songs and the sound of human voice.


I'm team human voice for sure, and the end state is real human voices. But in putting together music for choirs and other singers, I can send out a clear set of MP3s that definitively lay out melody and harmony for various parts. I can sketch out a passable mix w/o having to take time or $ to get singers which, especially with Covid has been a bigger PITA. I'm just grateful for the observably elevated capability of these tools after years of trying to make do with what existed.


----------



## Hataori

chapbot said:


> This is all correct where would I begin to figure out how to apply a recorded live vocal to SynthV? Thanks for any tips!


You can start with this video



and associated playlist



Also read the description of the video for SW links.


----------



## Jimgue

David Cuny said:


> The Pro Studio allows scripting in JavaScript and Lua.
> 
> Hataori has written a set of tools that use the free vocal analysis program Praat to import pitch information from an audio file into _SynthesizerV_.


Do you need to use scripting to get Solaria to sound close to realistic/good? The Hataori video's come up with some good results, but looks like quite a bit of work. There's a YT video of her singing Let it Go which I think is pretty hard to tell it's not a human through most of it...can that quality be achieved without additional scripting?


----------



## David Cuny

Jimgue said:


> Do you need to use scripting to get Solaria to sound close to realistic/good? The Hataori video's come up with some good results, but looks like quite a bit of work. There's a YT video of her singing Let it Go which I think is pretty hard to tell it's not a human through most of it...can that quality be achieved without additional scripting?


Not at all - these tools are only if you're trying to create a clone of an existing vocal performance.

If you just enter the notes, the default settings will give you a decent result, but it's sound a bit lifeless (overly auto-tuned) because it doesn't automatically add humanization.

There is a confusingly named "auto-tune" feature that _will_ apply pitch tuning in the style of the current singer to the selected notes. There are some sliders in the dialog, so you've got control over the results.


*Edit: *The humanization/auto-tune feature is only available for the AI voices. However, you _can_ tune a song using an AI voice and then change to a "Standard" voice, and it'll retain the "auto-tune" information, since it's written to the *Pitch Variation* track, and stays there even after you change the singer.


So once you've got the notes entered, you can apply "auto-tune" and humanize the notes. If you don't like the results, you can select the notes you want to be different, and tune those again with different parameters.

If you can't get the results you like from that, you can adjust the note parameters via sliders. For example, you can increase the vibrato on a note by selecting the note and then changing the vibrato depth.

There may also be notes that are a bit _too_ humanized for your taste. You can edit them manually, either by erasing the humanization in those spots, or manually drawing the pitch curve yourself.

So there's no need to use scripting at all, if you don't want to, and you'll still get convincing results.


----------



## Jimgue

David Cuny said:


> Not at all - these tools are only if you're trying to create a clone of an existing vocal performance.
> 
> If you just enter the notes, the default settings will give you a decent result, but it's sound a bit lifeless (overly auto-tuned) because it doesn't automatically add humanization.
> 
> There is a confusingly named "auto-tune" feature that _will_ apply pitch tuning in the style of the current singer to the selected notes. There are some sliders in the dialog, so you've got control over the results.
> 
> So once you've got the notes entered, you can apply "auto-tune" and humanize the notes. If you don't like the results, you can select the notes you want to be different, and tune those again with different parameters.
> 
> If you can't get the results you like from that, you can adjust the note parameters via sliders. For example, you can increase the vibrato on a note by selecting the note and then changing the vibrato depth.
> 
> There may also be notes that are a bit _too_ humanized for your taste. You can edit them manually, either by erasing the humanization in those spots, or manually drawing the pitch curve yourself.
> 
> So there's no need to use scripting at all, if you don't want to, and you'll still get convincing results.


Thank you so much for that detailed and helpful response David!!


----------



## pianistje

I have a question for the pro’s over here. I am getting better and better results with Solaria and use Neutron 3 advanced on track and Ozone 9 advanced on the final mix. I am very satisfied with my amateurish results. But i am wondering if anyone uses Nectar 3 on a Synthesizer V track ? It’s a lot of extra money and i have read many blogs, forums and articles about Neutron 3 vs Nectar 3 on vocals. Since Synthesizer V is not a real vocal i wonder if i need Nectar 3 to give Solaria another boost in the right direction. Sorry for a bit of topic post, but i am hoping for some user input of Nectar 3 in combination with Synthesizer V.


----------



## Vlzmusic

pianistje said:


> I have a question for the pro’s over here. I am getting better and better results with Solaria and use Neutron 3 advanced on track and Ozone 9 advanced on the final mix. I am very satisfied with my amateurish results. But i am wondering if anyone uses Nectar 3 on a Synthesizer V track ? It’s a lot of extra money and i have read many blogs, forums and articles about Neutron 3 vs Nectar 3 on vocals. Since Synthesizer V is not a real vocal i wonder if i need Nectar 3 to give Solaria another boost in the right direction. Sorry for a bit of topic post, but i am hoping for some user input of Nectar 3 in combination with Synthesizer V.


Do you have a specific example, or description of what you are missing with your current setup?

In my view, Solaria could definitely be treated as a regular voice recording, so you could just google your Nectar query over mixing pro's boards etc.

Anri/Eleanor still have that tiny pinch of "wax", or "cotton wool" in the sound, so they may need additional processing, but I guess still in the realm of usual stuff mixing engineers do, because real world voice recordings are all over the place too


----------



## pianistje

Vlzmusic said:


> Do you have a specific example, or description of what you are missing with your current setup?
> 
> In my view, Solaria could definitely be treated as a regular voice recording, so you could just google your Nectar query over mixing pro's boards etc.
> 
> Anri/Eleanor still have that tiny pinch of "wax", or "cotton wool" in the sound, so they may need additional processing, but I guess still in the realm of usual stuff mixing engineers do, because real world voice recordings are all over the place too


 ( real voice recordings all over the place)Not really missing anything. I simply don’t want to invest in Nectar 3 if the difference with Neutron 3 is minor. Since i specifically use it with the already ’autotune’ like Synthesizer V voices i wondered if Nectar 3 would add something significant.


----------



## Hataori

pianistje said:


> But i am wondering if anyone uses Nectar 3 on a Synthesizer V track ?


I have only Nectar 3, not Neutron or Ozone, so I can't compare. It's on my every vocal track in a couple of last songs. I use only EQs, compressor, de-esser, of course not autotune plugin. I use it's assistant to set up all these things - it listens to your track and then sets up some defaults you can start with.

I am amateur mixer, I can't say anything else than I am satisfied with it.
I don't see any difference in mixing natural vs synthetic vocals.


----------



## pianistje

Hataori said:


> I have only Nectar 3, not Neutron or Ozone, so I can't compare. It's on my every vocal track in a couple of last songs. I use only EQs, compressor, de-esser, of course not autotune plugin. I use it's assistant to set up all these things - it listens to your track and then sets up some defaults you can start with.
> 
> I am amateur mixer, I can't say anything else than I am satisfied with it.
> I don't see any difference in mixing natural vs synthetic vocals.


Thank you !


----------



## David Cuny

Working with _SynthesizerV_ vocals is a lot like working normal vocals. So you can use your normal vocal effects chain.

I also still go in and manually tweak the vocals, micro-editing consonants where they're needed (fortunately, not often) for clarity.

One big advantage of the _Pro Studio_ is that you can split out the vocal into voiced and non-harmonic content. That makes it a whole lot easier to de-ess and edit consonants. You can also do things like sending the voice to one reverb (like a plate) and the non-harmonic to another, so you don't lose as much clarity.

I suspect that eventually someone will write a VST that does that to normal vocals, since it's such a useful feature. 

It's also useful to split the non-harmonic portion out because _SynthesizerV_ sometimes gets a bit "gargly", and you can edit that portion to help clean up the sound.

If you've got good ears, you can get the results you want using the standard effects that come with your DAW. I lean more towards Greg Wells VoiceCentric because I like the sound of it but sometimes also use the Sunset Sound VST to add some room ambience.


----------



## pianistje

Got Nectar 3 plus for a cross grade price active till February the 15th. For 69 dollar without tax. Glad i brought it up and checked the Izotope site !!!


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

At the new Dreamtonics Store, are the Saki and Qingsu just the non-AI, without cross-lingual? But Ryo and Kevin are only AI? Are they going to add Eleanor (or others) to their shop or to the bundle anytime soon?

Tried listening to some English language demos of Saki and Qingsu... not as convincing as I'd like. I wouldn't mind an accent so much, but it sounds too obviously and awkwardly unnatural: 



This one's only slightly better:



Or has Saki AI improved since then / are there much better English language demos for her?...

They sound great in Japanese and Chinese though... I might like to have them sing some Japanese or Chinese poetry I've studied....


----------



## David Cuny

All the voices in the Dreamtonics website are AI. Saki is also available in a Standard version.

Ryo is cross-lingual, and has a definite accent. I wouldn't use it on a lead vocal if I had other options.

That doesn't mean that the cross-lingual voice won't be improved in the future.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

I'd assume Synthesizer V Pro allows you to choose where to install voice banks, so they can be on a secondary hard drive, right? Space is tight on my primary SSD. 

Wondering whether to get a choir with word-builder or try multiple Synth V voices. I had thought the cross-lingual English was good enough, from some of the demos, but now I'm not sure. Also doubt it would sound very similar to a physical choir recorded together though IDK. 

Eleanor is growing on me... and I heard a Cangqiong English demo that sounded very good. Wonder if it takes a huge amount of tweaking to make the cross-lingual English sound convincing to a native speaker? Then again, in context of a choir, it probably doesn't need to be as convincing....


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

A quick glance at the Dreamtonics forum had me worried, because a screenshot seemed to indicate that voice banks needed to be installed inside the Synthesizer V folder But that was for an old version. I tried installing the Basic version and one of the lite voices and it worked fine with the lite voice data in a different directory on a secondary hard drive, so I expect the Professional version and Solaria will be the same? Might try installing Synthesizer V itself on my secondary hard drive....


----------



## Knute5

The download's not that big. I believe you can install library content elsewhere, but it's not like the choir libraries that are usually pretty huge. I've struggled with the EastWest choir word builders, and it's great for painting an impression of pronunciation, but Synth V is much more surgical. I'd imagine there's a way to play with SV formants and other factors to help an SV voice "sit in" with a choir and supply some phonetic support. $151 (or $80 for one AI voice and SV basic) is a pretty light hit to the wallet as well.


----------



## Pier-V

@AnhrithmonGelasma I don't know if this helps, but the voicebanks are just some MB each. For example, my Solaria folder is 156 MB, but that's just because Eclipse Sounds decided to include some extra "bonus" sounds and examples in wav format. The actual content needed to make the voicebank work inside SynthV is around one third of that size, maybe even less.

About using these voices to recreate a choir: imho this approach will give you the same challenges of trying to do that with regular solo voice recordings. In a sense, a choir sound reduces even more the differences between real and synthesized voices, since it's much more difficult to hear the single details and more of an "overall, average" sound emerges. As you can imagine, the two effects somehow fight each other so it's really difficult to give a simple yes/no as an answer, and probably the quality of the result depends on the context.

One advantage SynthV offers compared to a sampled Vst of a solo voice is the fact that the autopitch function has some amount of randomization involved in the process - same goes for the other paramenters. You could also experiment with the gender function and different voicebanks used together to further enhance differences between the single takes, but of course the real big challenge will be in the mixing stage.
A few things come to mind, like trying to play with the stereo field, or using MIR if you have it at disposal, but I honestly think the video below will make a much better attempt at explaining this kind of stuff than me using a bunch of words... It's from *Anne-Kathrin Dern*, who also happens to be a member of this forum - extremely well made, and highly recommended!


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

I had thought Eleanor tends to sound either too "Disney" or too "show-tune-y" for (most of) my compositions, but not in this demo:



Still "classical" but more in a "classical singer doing British folk songs" way. They say "I did a bit of phoneme and dynamics edits and applied the new auto-pitching feature." So I guess they didn't adjust timbre or "aspiration output". Obviously there are some effects (reverb at least).


----------



## David Cuny

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Still "classical" but more in a "classical singer doing British folk songs" way. They say "I did a bit of phoneme and dynamics edits and applied the new auto-pitching feature." So I guess they didn't adjust timbre or "aspiration output".


*Edit: *The AI voices have a "Strength" parameter which allows morphing between two extremes of each phoneme.


You can't modify the phonemes themselves.

But...

You _can _control the *Gender*, which can brighten/darken vowels. The AI version responds a lot more than the Standard version, so you need to be careful or it'll get cartoonish.

You can also modify the relative duration and strength of individual phonemes with a syllable. So you can de-emphasize and */r/* sound so it's only lightly touched on.

You can obviously substitute vowels. The Standard version doesn't blend vowels that well, the AI version does. So you can create your own diphthongs and modify the duration of the individual phonemes.

That said, for most of the phonemes, what you get is what you get.


----------



## ip20

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> I had thought Eleanor tends to sound either too "Disney" or too "show-tune-y" for (most of) my compositions, but not in this demo:
> 
> 
> 
> Still "classical" but more in a "classical singer doing British folk songs" way. They say "I did a bit of phoneme and dynamics edits and applied the new auto-pitching feature." So I guess they didn't adjust timbre or "aspiration output". Obviously there are some effects (reverb at least).




Nice work!


----------



## Werty

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> I had thought Eleanor tends to sound either too "Disney" or too "show-tune-y" for (most of) my compositions, but not in this demo:
> 
> 
> 
> Still "classical" but more in a "classical singer doing British folk songs" way. They say "I did a bit of phoneme and dynamics edits and applied the new auto-pitching feature." So I guess they didn't adjust timbre or "aspiration output". Obviously there are some effects (reverb at least).



Not very classical yet, this makes you appreciate even more the variety of voices in Myriad Virtual Singer.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Trying to decide whether to get the Dreamtonics Synth V pro bundle with Kevin, Anicute bundle with Eleanor, or wait for Dreamtonics to add Eleanor as a bundle option. I'm a male vocalist and I want to use Hataori's scripts to convert my singing---would this generally work better with a male voice like Kevin? Would shifting my vocal recording up an octave or two make it more difficult? Too bad I don't like Kevin's falsetto (from the demos I've heard)---my falsetto's pretty bad so he'd be helpful there. OTOH I can just sing the male parts myself. 

But I like the idea of singing in other male voices, especially ones I really like that sound very different from the voices I can easily do. Not sure Kevin qualifies for me. Though I guess it might be useful to have Kevin for virtuosic parts I can't easily sing myself?


----------



## Pier-V

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> I'm a male vocalist and I want to use Hataori's scripts to convert my singing---would this generally work better with a male voice like Kevin? Would shifting my vocal recording up an octave or two make it more difficult?


I'm a male as well. When I tried this exact same method to apply pitch automation to female singers I was impressed with how well it works with Solaria. A bit less impressed with Eleanor, but still very good and usable.
Unfortunately I can't speak for Kevin, since I don't have access to the voicebank and nearly all the demos I've listened to on YT seem to avoid falsetto range. I'm not 100% sure yet if it's worth investing in a male voice, currently, nonetheless if you exclude the falsetto requirement I was able to find some really well made covers, like this one:



- - - - - -
When using falsetto with female voices, I tend to use it to achieve softness ("emotional") rather than power ("operaic") because I feel that's how it was mainly intended to be used by the developers - this may change with future updates but of course I have no idea if it will ever be the case. Please note, though, that Eleanor's falsetto is a bit weak in general.
As I've already said before, I feel the best range for Solaria is around G3 to E5, but some days ago I made another programming exercise where I exceeded the upper limit on purpose to check the Vst's behaviour, reaching up to G5 for a brief moment. A YT cover was even able to achieve a convincing enough Ab5, sung as a long sustained target note. Since this was an exercise I used the autopitch function+manual editing instead of Praat+transposition. Please don't mind the lyrics, they're just a lazy placeholder 

View attachment Solaria Belcanto Dry.mp3

View attachment Solaria Belcanto Mixed.mp3


----------



## AceAudioHQ

These are starting to sound pretty good, but any idea how to get rid of the "kazoo in the mouth" effect that happens sometimes with synth v libraries?


----------



## Pier-V

AceAudioHQ said:


> These are starting to sound pretty good, but any idea how to get rid of the "kazoo in the mouth" effect that happens sometimes with synth v libraries?


I think I understand what you mean, and I agree. I'm still trying to figure out the exact cause myself, but for now my best guess is that those are unnatural resonances in the overtone series which happen when the intonation is perfectly flat. This doesn't mean that the voicebanks can only sing vibrato, just some random low amount of "noise" in the pitch function masks the effect a lot.
I've also noticed that Solaria specifically seems to access different vowel samples _depending on the tension value at the beginning of any new note_. What happens in the tension function after a note is played or after a new note with a "-" phoneme doesn't seem to influence this behaviour, which makes sense since by that time the sample has been chosen already. This is relevant, because:

- Low values trigger soft samples with a breathy quality;
- Middle values trigger a standard tone as expected;
- High values trigger a somewhat strong tone with a slight harsness on some high-mid overtones. This is not necessairily bad per se, on the contrary it's a useful variant, but I've noticed that if used cluelessly those harmonics I was talking about may end up seeming a bit distorted and unpleasant. Take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt, but I think this is related in part to the problem.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

I finally finished my video on Emvoice One. It's 57 minutes long, but I don't expect anybody to watch it all. I've put a lot of Chapter Markers. I just wanted to create a comprehensive video manual. 

I also think that many things I talk about could be relevant to anybody making music with a virtual vocalist, like recording a basic backing track first.


----------



## KarlHeinz

Reid Rosefelt said:


> I finally finished my video on Emvoice One. It's 57 minutes long, but I don't expect anybody to watch it all. I've put a lot of Chapter Markers. I just wanted to create a comprehensive video manual.
> 
> I also think that many things I talk about could be relevant to anybody making music with a virtual vocalist, like recording a basic backing track first.



Absolutely thankful for this as there is not many out about it but I just love it for its simplicity. Will surely have a look this evening


----------



## David Cuny

Reid Rosefelt said:


> I also think that many things I talk about could be relevant to anybody making music with a virtual vocalist, like recording a basic backing track first.


Excellent video - it's close to the approach that I take, so I agree that much of the advice is useful for synthetic voices in general.

One unimportant point - _Eleanor Forte_ was one of the first _SynthesizerV _voices released, back in 2018. So there's almost always been an English voice for _SynthesizerV_. But it was not until more recently that _other_ English voices were available.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

David Cuny said:


> Excellent video - it's close to the approach that I take, so I agree that much of the advice is useful for synthetic voices in general.
> 
> One unimportant point - _Eleanor Forte_ was one of the first _SynthesizerV _voices released, back in 2018. So there's almost always been an English voice for _SynthesizerV_. But it was not until more recently that _other_ English voices were available.


Thanks, David.

Oy! I hate to make mistakes. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll put it in the description under my video.


----------



## Cyberic

Reid Rosefelt said:


> I finally finished my video on Emvoice One. It's 57 minutes long, but I don't expect anybody to watch it all.


Congrats Reid. A video on these voice synths was needed and you were the person to deliver one. Also you have a very soothing and engaging style.

P.S. You’re only 48 subscribers away from 1000 on YouTube!


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Cyberic said:


> Congrats Reid. A video on these voice synths was needed and you were the person to deliver one. Also you have a very soothing and engaging style.
> 
> P.S. You’re only 48 subscribers away from 1000 on YouTube!


Thank you!

Yes, I should make it to 1000 subscribers sometime in March or early April. That's nice, but you also need 4000 yearly hours to become a YouTube partner and I only have 3000. All I need is for a thousand people to watch this video all the way through and I'll be home free! 

But seriously, I'm going to have to get real and put up a lot more videos this year. And better ones.

If anybody who watches this and likes it wants to put a comment up, I would appreciate it. I do think there's a lot in there that is helpful for Vocaloid and Synthesizer V people. (Based on this response, I've changed my graphic.) Also, people are telling me that they weren't aware of all the Emvoice features that I explain in the video.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Bought Solaria yesterday, I couldn't find good enough demos for Eleanor Forte, though I like the style of her voice more, but it's always a bit lower quality on songs unless they're morphed from existing vocal tracks. Solaria however sounds pretty good straight off the bat and I'm quite happy with how little effort it took to get something like this. Used the free Synthesizer V, don't know if the paid version brings much more than quality of life things, but I will be buying it at some point also


----------



## soulofsound

AceAudioHQ said:


> Bought Solaria yesterday, I couldn't find good enough demos for Eleanor Forte, though I like the style of her voice more, but it's always a bit lower quality on songs unless they're morphed from existing vocal tracks. Solaria however sounds pretty good straight off the bat and I'm quite happy with how little effort it took to get something like this. Used the free Synthesizer V, don't know if the paid version brings much more than quality of life things, but I will be buying it at some point also


This sounds so great. Did you have to edit a lot?


----------



## soulofsound

Reid Rosefelt said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Yes, I should make it to 1000 subscribers sometime in March or early April. That's nice, but you also need 4000 yearly hours to become a YouTube partner and I only have 3000. All I need is for a thousand people to watch this video all the way through and I'll be home free!
> 
> But seriously, I'm going to have to get real and put up a lot more videos this year. And better ones.
> 
> If anybody who watches this and likes it wants to put a comment up, I would appreciate it. I do think there's a lot in there that is helpful for Vocaloid and Synthesizer V people. (Based on this response, I've changed my graphic.) Also, people are telling me that they weren't aware of all the Emvoice features that I explain in the video.


It looks like you will hit a thousand much sooner.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

soulofsound said:


> This sounds so great. Did you have to edit a lot?


Thanks, not so much, I wrote the notes, added the words, then pressed the auto pitch tuning on all notes, and then cleared the tuning from the notes which sounded bad and did it again to the single note, if I didn’t get good enough results, I edited it by hand but most of it was just fine with the automatic and it was maybe a 10 minute job


----------



## Markrs

AceAudioHQ said:


> Bought Solaria yesterday, I couldn't find good enough demos for Eleanor Forte, though I like the style of her voice more, but it's always a bit lower quality on songs unless they're morphed from existing vocal tracks. Solaria however sounds pretty good straight off the bat and I'm quite happy with how little effort it took to get something like this. Used the free Synthesizer V, don't know if the paid version brings much more than quality of life things, but I will be buying it at some point also


This is very good and really makes me want to get it, however I just bought 8Dio's Silka so it is going to have to wait.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Markrs said:


> This is very good and really makes me want to get it, however I just bought 8Dio's Silka so it is going to have to wait.


It surprised me how good the new ai voices sound since I tried Synthesizer V maybe a year ago, but couldn’t get good enough results to have anything usable, unless I wanted to make a robotic vocaloid track. Synthesizer V has taken a huge leap in a short time. Of course Solaria also gets a lot of credit, it seems to be quite a bit better than the rest, or at least you get good results more easily.

What I really wanted originally was a backup singer library, I bought eastwest Hollywood backup singers and I wish I could get my money back since it’s so bad, and also I’ve waited for a long time for realivox ladies to drop below $199 (it was $99 at apd a long time ago) but now I don’t need it anymore. Solaria is so good that it can actually be used even as a lead singer. It’s not perfect, but most of the things that bother me are quite small, and can probably be fixed spending a bit more time and learning how to use the program. And maybe the pro version of Synth V also has some tricks to improve it.


----------



## szczaw

Made with the free synth V and rendered with EF. I didn't do any tuning, as this sounds good enough for me. I don't see the record button in the pro version, this would be an obvious feature to have. Otherwise the editor is very nice.

View attachment synthV.mp3


----------



## odod

does eleanor comes with the Synth V Pro?


----------



## Vlzmusic

odod said:


> does eleanor comes with the Synth V Pro?


No, odod, voicebanks and the Pro version of the software are different purchases. There are some bundles though on sites like Anicute, but they are just couple of bucks off the regular price.


----------



## Vlzmusic

szczaw said:


> Made with the free synth V and rendered with EF. I didn't do any tuning, as this sounds good enough for me. I don't see the record button in the pro version, this would be an obvious feature to have. Otherwise the editor is very nice.
> 
> View attachment synthV.mp3


You don`t have to do manual adjustments, but no reason to skip the great AI auto procedure, its up in the various options, just select all the notes, go to Auto-Process - Auto Pitch Tuning (they sure have stupid lexicon for all this stuff) then there is just one window, hit OK, and you will see great humanization applied to the notes.  There is also second version, with some customization.


----------



## odod

Vlzmusic said:


> No, odod, voicebanks and the Pro version of the software are different purchases. There are some bundles though on sites like Anicute, but they are just couple of bucks off the regular price.


ahh I see, any voice that is useful for making pop song music? i am interested in Kevin, but somehow i have no idea whether this voice can do high pitch or not


----------



## szczaw

Vlzmusic said:


> You don`t have to do manual adjustments, but no reason to skip the great AI auto procedure, its up in the various options, just select all the notes, go to Auto-Process - Auto Pitch Tuning (they sure have stupid lexicon for all this stuff) then there is just one window, hit OK, and you will see great humanization applied to the notes.  There is also second version, with some customization.


Will investigate


----------



## Vlzmusic

odod said:


> ahh I see, any voice that is useful for making pop song music? i am interested in Kevin, but somehow i have no idea whether this voice can do high pitch or not


 No expert in pop, but overall, extensive high range is not Synth V strong side. The voices have natural octave and a half, beyond which they sound stranded at first, then just unnatural. But I like the stranded borderline, it reflects the real deal.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

odod said:


> ahh I see, any voice that is useful for making pop song music? i am interested in Kevin, but somehow i have no idea whether this voice can do high pitch or not


I think Solaria is excellent for pop music, the voice is pretty contemporary, and when you go higher it starts breaking up a bit quite naturally, but it of course has it's range when it sounds best. I've listened to Kevin and it's ok but still somewhat lower quality, and It's not very masculine imo.

Here's another test I did, Solaria in the lead and the free Eleanor Forte Lite in the background. The hardest thing for me is to try to make up lyrics since I've never actually done that before and I'm not a native speaker, the voice comes out pretty easy.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Vlzmusic said:


> No expert in pop, but overall, extensive high range is not Synth V strong side. The voices have natural octave and a half, beyond which they sound stranded at first, then just unnatural. But I like the stranded borderline, it reflects the real deal.


What are the ranges for the native English voice banks? 

From the demos, Eleanor and Kevin seem to sound better lower in their registers.


----------



## odod

AceAudioHQ said:


> I think Solaria is excellent for pop music, the voice is pretty contemporary, and when you go higher it starts breaking up a bit quite naturally, but it of course has it's range when it sounds best. I've listened to Kevin and it's ok but still somewhat lower quality, and It's not very masculine imo.
> 
> Here's another test I did, Solaria in the lead and the free Eleanor Forte Lite in the background. The hardest thing for me is to try to make up lyrics since I've never actually done that before and I'm not a native speaker, the voice comes out pretty easy.


whoa, thanks for the demo, is it tedious to write 3 minutes song with this?
and where's the cheapest web to buy this?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

odod said:


> whoa, thanks for the demo, is it tedious to write 3 minutes song with this?


I haven't done a full song yet, but I'd say no. The only thing bothering me at the moment is the limited amount of tracks in the free Synth V since they're limited to 3 and if I want to write harmonies, I have to have two projects, but the limitation is lifted when upgrading it to the paid version. The software is pretty good, better than it was a year ago, but still lacking a few things. The automation is so good that at least with Solaria the results come pretty easy, you put in the notes, you write the lyrics, automate the pitch a few times and then fiddle with the curves to get some bends where you need them, nothing major, though it can be if you dive deep, I haven't touched any of the advanced things besides touching the pitch curve by hand.


----------



## soulofsound

AceAudioHQ said:


> Thanks, not so much, I wrote the notes, added the words, then pressed the auto pitch tuning on all notes, and then cleared the tuning from the notes which sounded bad and did it again to the single note, if I didn’t get good enough results, I edited it by hand but most of it was just fine with the automatic and it was maybe a 10 minute job


Thanks. Much appreciated.


----------



## odod

AceAudioHQ said:


> I haven't done a full song yet, but I'd say no. The only thing bothering me at the moment is the limited amount of tracks in the free Synth V since they're limited to 3 and if I want to write harmonies, I have to have two projects, but the limitation is lifted when upgrading it to the paid version. The software is pretty good, better than it was a year ago, but still lacking a few things. The automation is so good that at least with Solaria the results come pretty easy, you put in the notes, you write the lyrics, automate the pitch a few times and then fiddle with the curves to get some bends where you need them, nothing major, though it can be if you dive deep, I haven't touched any of the advanced things besides touching the pitch curve by hand.


thank you so much, so if I buy the Pro version does that include with any voice or should I buy the voice separately?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

odod said:


> if I buy the Pro version does that include with any voice or should I buy the voice separately?


No, the voices are not necessarily developed by the same companies, if you buy Solaria, you need to buy it from eclipsed sounds, synth v and some of the voice banks are by dreamtonics, ANiCUTE has bundles with synth v pro + x voice banks, but you can try with the free synth v and free lite voice banks first to see if it’s for you.


----------



## Michel Simons

AceAudioHQ said:


> but you can try with the free synth v and free lite voice banks first to see if it’s for you.


That's exactly what I finally started to do today. Even though I only messed around with it for half an hour I can imagine that it can become quite addictive. But for me too coming up with half-decent lyrics and vocal melodies is a challenge in itself.


----------



## CatOrchestra

I write primarily in Dorico and use Logic Pro as an add-on. I have been looking for male and female voices VST to listen to how it all fits.

I am thinking of using it primarily for pop, musicals and operas.

What should I get for the best sound when making the least possible effort? I can imagine some stuff will have excellent results when a lot of effort has been placed, but what gives the best results when making the slightest effort? (as they might be two different products)


----------



## David Cuny

CatOrchestra said:


> What should I get for the best sound when making the least possible effort? I can imagine some stuff will have excellent results when a lot of effort has been placed, but what gives the best results when making the slightest effort? (as they might be two different products)


Assuming you're talking about _SynthV, _for the best possible sound, you need the Pro version of the Studio. The free version has somewhat lower sound quality.

If you've worked with piano roll notation before, you should have no issue with working in the _SynthV_ Studio. I prefer to do all the voice work in the Studio, and then export the *.wav* file out. Since it rewrites the same files each time, you can toggle between the DAW and _SynthV_ Studio pretty quickly. It only takes a few seconds to render out a song.

The voices are better suited for pop than they are for opera. That's both in the range, and how they shape their vowels. There are no "mature" male voices. You can somewhat tweak the voices, but they'll have the same general character. I think Eleanor Forte is probably better suited for a more classical style than Solaria. From what I've heard in demos, the Chinese voicebank Cangqiong is a good mature voice, but the AI version that supports the cross-lingual feature isn't released yet.

If you simply use the piano roll, you'll get decent results. If you're only "prototyping" the song, that may be sufficient. You can apply the "humanize" option with the AI voices and get more "natural" results.

One simple approach to gettting decent results would be to apply "humanize" to all the notes, and listen to the results. If it's too wobbly, dial back the parameters and apply again until it's in the ballpark.

You can then go back and pick the notes you want to fix. Generally it'll over-do some of the notes, so you can re-apply the humanize option to just those notes with the "humanize" levels applied even lower, or just delete the control points from the timeline and either leave it as is, or draw in the pitch line yourself.

For the notes that need a bit more vibrato, select them and manually adjust the vibrato parameters (primarily the "depth") to taste.

With that approach, you can get fairly good results pretty quickly.


----------



## szczaw

CatOrchestra said:


> What should I get for the best sound when making the least possible effort? I can imagine some stuff will have excellent results when a lot of effort has been placed, but what gives the best results when making the slightest effort? (as they might be two different products)


Synth V sounds more realistic, the editor is very good (the pro version), but for some reason it doesn't record notes. In Emvoice you can easily record notes from your DAW, copy and paste text phrases, and for some people this may be a faster and easier way of getting notes into the editor.

Instead of inserting and connecting individual notes, Emvoice uses phrases of text and base syllable notes that can be varied in pitch (there's a base note and on top of it you can add another notes that change pitch), which may be a nicer way of arranging, it's a personal preference.


----------



## aelwyn

I've been having an absolute blast with Synth V since this weekend. I'd never heard of it (or Vocaloid) prior to stumbling across this thread, but it's strangely addicting. The documentation is somewhere between nonexistent and awful, so I'm engaging in a lot of trial and error. Lots of tinkering to see what yields better results. I finished a cover of a song from _The Greatest Showman_ today, using the Solaria and Kevin voice databases.



Not completely convincing, but definitely not bad. If I had endless time to sculpt, I'm sure it could be massaged into something fairly convincing. Considering the expressiveness of a real human voice, getting even this close is pretty impressive. I'm excited to see how the software continues to evolve.


----------



## NYC Composer

Sounds very real to me. Jeez.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

aelwyn said:


> Not completely convincing, but definitely not bad.


I see from the pitch envelopes that you’re using the default pitch instead of AI pitch auto tuning, it sounds a bit synthetic because of that


----------



## aelwyn

AceAudioHQ said:


> I see from the pitch envelopes that you’re using the default pitch instead of AI pitch auto tuning, it sounds a bit synthetic because of that


Actually, the only place I _didn't _use auto pitch tuning was in the chorus on Solaria when they're both singing (around 2:30 -- though I did use it on Kevin), and I actually think those sections are the ones that sound the _most _realistic. Using it on both voices gave some pretty extreme pitch oddities when combined.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

aelwyn said:


> Actually, the only place I _didn't _use auto pitch tuning was in the chorus on Solaria when they're both singing (around 2:30 -- though I did use it on Kevin), and I actually think those sections are the ones that sound the _most _realistic. Using it on both voices gave some pretty extreme pitch oddities when combined.


Oh, since the vibratos on Kevin are so sinewavish that they sound unrealistic


----------



## Bollen

I have to say, the girl sounds pretty incredible for a robot, especially @AceAudioHQ examples. The guy on the other hand sounds like those things my hairdresser listens to.... In both cases the higher they sing the most realistic it sounds!


----------



## Knute5

Have been working with SV with mixed results. 

Tried an a cappella composition. It definitely helps sketch out the song, but right now I long for a real choir. Still amazed with the tool. Just need to get better at it.


----------



## Bollen

Knute5 said:


> Have been working with SV with mixed results.
> 
> Tried an a cappella composition. It definitely helps sketch out the song, but right now I long for a real choir. Still amazed with the tool. Just need to get better at it.


Are these the Kevin and Solaria? Considering how exposed everything is, it sounds as good as almost any sample library of instruments…


----------



## Knute5

Bollen said:


> Are these the Kevin and Solaria? Considering how exposed everything is, it sounds as good as almost any sample library of instruments…


Yup, K & S. Thanks. I hope to continue to figure SV out.


----------



## Markrs




----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Markrs said:


>



That downwards pitch bend on "do" is really nice....


----------



## Bollen

Markrs said:


>



I am speechless, I am without words...

Is this with the Pro version?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Bollen said:


> Is this with the Pro version?


It's not done with only synth v, it uses a plugin that requires an existing vocal performance which is morphed to solaria's voice. So you wouldn't do anything like this unless you could have access to a great vocalist, then again, why would you need solaria unless the vocalist's voice was bad but the singing was fine. or maybe to transform a male voice to a female one.


----------



## rogierhofboer

Bollen said:


> I am speechless, I am without words...
> 
> Is this with the Pro version?


Yes, only the Pro version supports scripts and this level of fine tuning.


----------



## ip20

AceAudioHQ said:


> It's not done with only synth v, it uses a plugin that requires an existing vocal performance which is morphed to solaria's voice. So you wouldn't do anything like this unless you could have access to a great vocalist, then again, why would you need solaria unless the vocalist's voice was bad but the singing was fine. or maybe to transform a male voice to a female one.



Which plug in is this?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

ip20 said:


> Which plug in is this?


The video says "HPSynthV's plugin". If you read earlier posts from this thread there's some talk of using Praat and a script to achieve this


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

AceAudioHQ said:


> It's not done with only synth v, it uses a plugin that requires an existing vocal performance which is morphed to solaria's voice. So you wouldn't do anything like this unless you could have access to a great vocalist, then again, why would you need solaria unless the vocalist's voice was bad but the singing was fine. or maybe to transform a male voice to a female one.


- different voice (timbre, etc.)

- different range or different optimal range

- can act as "guest vocalist" or backup singer, or multiple backup singers (perhaps tweaking timbre to make each sound different, etc.)

- if my voice is crackly, will PRAAT be able to ignore the crackle? 

- setting up high-end condenser microphone (getting it out of the box, etc.), Kaotica Eyeball, Aston reflection shield, preamp, and gobos to get a nice recording in a partially treated room is a bit of work. Perhaps PRAAT will work with a decent dynamic microphone like the SM7B? SM7B is also good for not picking up throat/mouth noises, more focus on pitch

Even if PRAAT doesn't work well when my voice is crackly or I'm congested or hoarse etc., there are times when I don't feel like singing or like setting up my nice equipment. So even though I'm a male vocalist, a male voice would be convenient. And my voice only sounds good from around D2 to A4. 

So I still haven't decided whether to get the Kevin + Synth V Pro bundle from Dreamtonics or the Eleanor bundle from Anicute, or wait for Dreamtonics to offer Eleanor + Synth V Pro bundle (since their prices are lower than Anicute). Definitely going to get Solaria, but I can wait for a sale, if they ever do one. Leaning towards Eleanor bundle but I'm not too keen on buying it at Anicute now if Dreamtonics is likely to offer it at a lower price....


----------



## gyprock

Here's something I wrote using Solaria and Kevin. The strings are Dorico/Noteperformer. I saved audio from Synthesizer V then created a blank MP4 video with Camtasia which allowed me to bring it into Dorico to do the mixing. Dorico can't yet import audio natively, only a video file.

Note that I didn't adjust any parameters with Solaria and Kevin. They are completely raw. My purpose was to use them in a compositional role rather than to emulate a cover. The lyrics were written by a friend of mine.

View attachment Influence Me-3.mp3


----------



## ip20

AceAudioHQ said:


> The video says "HPSynthV's plugin". If you read earlier posts from this thread there's some talk of using Praat and a script to achieve this


Oh yes, thanks! I’ve been meaning to watch those videos but haven’t had the chance to.


----------



## Bollen

AceAudioHQ said:


> It's not done with only synth v, it uses a plugin that requires an existing vocal performance which is morphed to solaria's voice. So you wouldn't do anything like this unless you could have access to a great vocalist, then again, why would you need solaria unless the vocalist's voice was bad but the singing was fine. or maybe to transform a male voice to a female one.


Oh I see, very confused now... (head scratching). So what about your earlier examples? Where they also produced with this plugin?

Basically, I'd like to know what can be achieved with the full Synth V and the two voices alone...


----------



## David Cuny

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> - if my voice is crackly, will PRAAT be able to ignore the crackle?
> 
> - setting up high-end condenser microphone (getting it out of the box, etc.), Kaotica Eyeball, Aston reflection shield, preamp, and gobos to get a nice recording in a partially treated room is a bit of work. Perhaps PRAAT will work with a decent dynamic microphone like the SM7B? SM7B is also good for not picking up throat/mouth noises, more focus on pitch


Praat won't ignore the crackle. However, you _will _be able to edit it afterwards.

Praat isn't using any information from your voice other than pitch. So the microphone only has to be good enough for Praat to perform pitch analysis. Same with room treatment.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Bollen said:


> Oh I see, very confused now... (head scratching). So what about your earlier examples? Where they also produced with this plugin?
> 
> Basically, I'd like to know what can be achieved with the full Synth V and the two voices alone...


My demos were made with only Solaria (paid) and Synthesizer V Basic (free), but I can't achieve similar results with the other voices (eleanor forte etc.). Though I only have lite versions, but I haven't even found any good demos using eleanor forte or kevin. With Solaria you can achieve really great results, but you can also make it sound terrible if you use it 'wrong'. I also didn't use much time with my demos so it should be pretty easy to get similar results.

The two solaria demos in this thread from youtube where they play Postmodern Jukebox performances (the lady in the red dress singing and the band in the background) are made with Solaria and Synthesizer V Pro and 3rd party programs and scripts.


----------



## AkashicBird

Hate to ask this kind of question but Is it supposed to work inside Reaper? I usually have no problem recognizing plugins inside the daw but even after reinstalling it Reaper can't find it. Maybe I missed something.


----------



## soulofsound

AkashicBird said:


> Hate to ask this kind of question but Is it supposed to work inside Reaper? I usually have no problem recognizing plugins inside the daw but even after reinstalling it Reaper can't find it. Maybe I missed something.


I think you have to install the pro version to get the plugin. It says so on this page.








Synthesizer V Studio Pro - Dreamtonics Store


Synthesizer V Studio Pro is the flagship singing synthesis software developed by Dreamtonics. The software combines an intuitive and flexible user interface with a powerful singing synthesis engine backed by cutting-edge technologies. Users can easily create realistic-sounding vocal covers or...




store.dreamtonics.com


----------



## AkashicBird

soulofsound said:


> I think you have to install the pro version to get the plugin. It says so on this page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthesizer V Studio Pro - Dreamtonics Store
> 
> 
> Synthesizer V Studio Pro is the flagship singing synthesis software developed by Dreamtonics. The software combines an intuitive and flexible user interface with a powerful singing synthesis engine backed by cutting-edge technologies. Users can easily create realistic-sounding vocal covers or...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> store.dreamtonics.com


Oh. Well, I'm dumb. Thanks for clarifying this!


----------



## soulofsound

AkashicBird said:


> Oh. Well, I'm dumb. Thanks for clarifying this!


I think their website is not at all clear. I installed this trial version here and did have the plugin in Logic https://dreamtonics.com/synthesizerv-gen1/en/download/


----------



## rogierhofboer

That is the previous generation (gen1). I don't think it is as capable as the new Synthesizer V studio Pro or (or even Basic - the free version) which is gen2 also called AI. 
As far as I can tell it cannot be bought anymore (the provided store links result in a 404)

Look at this for the release presentation of Synthesizer V Studio:


and the press release:








New Generation AI Singing Voice Synthesis Software | Dreamtonics株式会社


Press Release October 30, 2020 Dreamtonics Co., Ltd. New Generation AI Singing Voice Synthesis Software Synthesizer V AI Expected Arrival Early 2021 Tokyo-based Dreamtonics (representative: Kanru Hua)




dreamtonics.com





And this is the link for the current version:








Synthesizer V | Dreamtonics株式会社







dreamtonics.com





Also I am pretty sure new voices like Solaria and Kevin do not work on the gen1 version and need Studio.


----------



## David Cuny

rogierhofboer said:


> That is the previous generation (gen1). I don't think it is as capable as the new Synthesizer V studio Pro or (or even Basic - the free version) which is gen2 also called AI.


The Gen1 version is no longer supported, and often causes confusion, as it still can be found and downloaded. Gen1 is also the only version of the software that has documentation.

There are two different technologies that _SynthV_ uses to generate vocals.

The first is referred to as "Standard", and is concatenative synthesis. This was used in the Gen1 version, and is still used in Gen2.

The second is referred to as "AI", and uses a neural network trained on the concatenative synthesis data to generate the audio. These are not supported in the Gen1 program. 

The Standard voice synthesis is actually higher quality than the AI synthesis, both in terms of time and spectral resolution. It also renders faster - at least, on my old machine. But the AI versions tend to be more realistic, and the "Auto Tune" humanize feature is only available in the AI version. However, you _can_ apply "Auto Tune" using an AI voice and then switch to a "Standard" voice, and the pitch tuning information will still be available.

The use of "AI" in the voicebank names is inconsistent. It seems the "AI" designation is only used to distinguish between the "Standard" version. So there is a "Saki" and "Saki AI". However, both Solaria and Kevin are _only_ available as AI, but the names don't include "AI" in the title.


----------



## Bollen

This product is so confusing....😁


----------



## rogierhofboer

I would describe it as amazing


----------



## Hataori

If you are interested in copying real vocals - I'd like to present you a new script which allowes you to export notes with lyrics from Studio to Praat.

You can thus start in the Studio (or DAW by recording a MIDI melody) and continue in Praat only moving the markers. You don't have to start from scratch in Praat.

Not useful for copying speech.


----------



## Blancanegra

I join the conversation posting 2 test I did in my first day with Solaria:

Manic Monday (The Bangles)
View attachment Manic Monday test.mp3


Ben (Michael Jackson)
View attachment Ben test.mp3


Those were old files I did for Eleanor Forte lite, rescued to test Solaria. I cleaned all the parameters but preserving the notes. Then I applied auto pitch tunning + manual editing, some parts needs more adjustments (vibrato speed coherence) but not bad for a first contact.

I found the auto pitch tunning process very annoying and slow if you need to use it recursively. Would be great if it was in its own dedicated side panel. I hope it would be improved in a near future because it is, maybe, the most useful tool to improve the tunning.


----------



## Blancanegra

Hataori said:


> If you are interested in copying real vocals - I'd like to present you a new script which allowes you to export notes with lyrics from Studio to Praat.
> 
> You can thus start in the Studio (or DAW by recording a MIDI melody) and continue in Praat only moving the markers. You don't have to start from scratch in Praat.
> 
> Not useful for copying speech.



Wow, that's a further step, great job Hataori!
I'll try it soon or later!


----------



## Wolf68

Blancanegra said:


> I join the conversation posting 2 test I did in my first day with Solaria:
> 
> Manic Monday (The Bangles)
> View attachment Manic Monday test.mp3
> 
> 
> Ben (Michael Jackson)
> View attachment Ben test.mp3
> 
> 
> Those were old files I did for Eleanor Forte lite, rescued to test Solaria. I cleaned all the parameters but preserving the notes. Then I applied auto pitch tunning + manual editing, some parts needs more adjustments (vibrato speed coherence) but not bad for a first contact.
> 
> I found the auto pitch tunning process very annoying and slow if you need to use it recursively. Would be great if it was in its own dedicated side panel. I hope it would be improved in a near future because it is, maybe, the most useful tool to improve the tunning.


sounds very good to my ears!


----------



## Markrs

The YouTube channel raidergale has produced some really good Synth V vocal tracks and below is a video of the other tracks that they are working on.


----------



## Blancanegra

Aaah, some more testing with Solaria!

This time trying with soft and breathy voices reducing the tension and tone shift.

The autopitch is a killer feature, just only takes a few iterations to get a close result I was looking for.

After more than 10 years as Vocaloid user, I can highly recomend this product not only because the timbre voice quality, but the easy of use to achieve good results in no time. What was a pain before, now is a fun pleasure.


Luka (Suzanne Vega)
View attachment Luka test.mp3


Words (F. R. David)
View attachment Words don't came easy test.mp3


----------



## Knute5

Blancanegra said:


> Aaah, some more testing with Solaria!
> 
> This time trying with soft and breathy voices reducing the tension and tone shift.
> 
> The autopitch is a killer feature, just only takes a few iterations to get a close result I was looking for.
> 
> After more than 10 years as Vocaloid user, I can highly recomend this product not only because the timbre voice quality, but the easy of use to achieve good results in no time. What was a pain before, now is a fun pleasure.
> 
> 
> Luka (Suzanne Vega)
> View attachment Luka test.mp3
> 
> 
> Words (F. R. David)
> View attachment Words don't came easy test.mp3


Really nice. Perfect for Suzanne Vega. Not sure about more gospel or even Reba McEntire and her cries and vocal runs. Fixing phonemes though. No offense, but her pronunciation of "live" sounds more like "leave." Have you tried to fix that?


----------



## NYC Composer

All sounds amazing to me.

So to get started, I would have to buy Synthesizer V from Dreamtonics and Solaria from eclipsed Sounds?


----------



## David Cuny

NYC Composer said:


> All sounds amazing to me.
> 
> So to get started, I would have to buy Synthesizer V from Dreamtonics and Solaria from eclipsed Sounds?


If you just want to get started, you can download the Basic editor and Lite voices for free. Eleanor Forte AI Lite is the only Lite English voice that's available, but Solaria Lite will be available at the end of the month.

It might be easier to find the files on the ANiCUTE website instead of the Dreamtonics website.

Once you decide you purchase the product, you can get the Pro editor from Dreamtonics or ANiCUTE, and Solaria from Eclipsed Sounds. Eleanor Forte and Kevin are also native English voices you might check out.


----------



## Blancanegra

Knute5 said:


> Really nice. Perfect for Suzanne Vega. Not sure about more gospel or even Reba McEntire and her cries and vocal runs. Fixing phonemes though. No offense, but her pronunciation of "live" sounds more like "leave." Have you tried to fix that?


Hi Knute, thank you for the compliment!.

With those demos I intended to highlight the expressiveness that can be achieved with little editing work, regardless of whether the pronunciation is perfect. English is not my first tongue and there are certain things that escape my ears (I focus first on the musicality and the rhythm of the phonemes rather than the correct pronunciation) but I will check that "live" pronunciation!

On the other hand, I don't know if you find it interesting that I publish the files.

I don't know Reba McEntire music and she has a huge discography, could you tell me some sample songs from her, and even some gospel songs you like?. I will like to try that, but take into account that Solaria's voice is pop style, and does not have the particularities that characterize a country voice.


----------



## NYC Composer

I’m impulsive. I bought Solaria and downloaded Synthesizer V Lite. Now I have to figure out how to make things work


----------



## raidergale

Markrs said:


> The YouTube channel raidergale has produced some really good Synth V vocal tracks and below is a video of the other tracks that they are working on.


Thanks for sharing my videos in this thread! Just wanted to point out that the tracks in that video are older tests that I probably won't finish, I wasn't particularly happy with them but at the same time I didn't want to let them sit on my hard drive completely unused.



Blancanegra said:


> Aaah, some more testing with Solaria!
> 
> This time trying with soft and breathy voices reducing the tension and tone shift.
> 
> The autopitch is a killer feature, just only takes a few iterations to get a close result I was looking for.
> 
> After more than 10 years as Vocaloid user, I can highly recomend this product not only because the timbre voice quality, but the easy of use to achieve good results in no time. What was a pain before, now is a fun pleasure.
> 
> 
> Luka (Suzanne Vega)
> View attachment Luka test.mp3
> 
> 
> Words (F. R. David)
> View attachment Words don't came easy test.mp3


These sound great! I used to really admire yours and Giuseppe's Vocaloid 2 and Vocaloid 3 works, so it's nice to see you're still dabbling with vocal synths.


----------



## Markrs

raidergale said:


> Thanks for sharing my videos in this thread! Just wanted to point out that the tracks in that video are older tests that I probably won't finish, I wasn't particularly happy with them but at the same time I didn't want to let them sit on my hard drive completely unused.


Great to see you on here @raidergale! The vocal mock ups using Synth V and Solaria that you have done, have been amazing and very convincing!


----------



## odod

anyone got any discount code that i can use  really need this badly ..
finally .. bought it! and here it is .. from 2001 old track finally it comes alive








BandLab: Make Music Online


The cloud platform where musicians and fans create music, collaborate, and engage with each other across the globe




www.bandlab.com


----------



## SyMTiK

This was the most impressive demo I have seen so far. Very few moments in here that gave away its a vocaloid (honestly, only the famous belt section in the bridge gave it away to me. Haleys original is incredibly hard to match hahaha), one of the most expressive and human demos i have heard. Still looks like a pretty great deal of editing went into making the vocal sound this good, but the fact that this is possible with a computer program is really impressive.


----------



## Markrs

SyMTiK said:


> This was the most impressive demo I have seen so far. Very few moments in here that gave away its a vocaloid (honestly, only the famous belt section in the bridge gave it away to me. Haleys original is incredibly hard to match hahaha), one of the most expressive and human demos i have heard. Still looks like a pretty great deal of editing went into making the vocal sound this good, but the fact that this is possible with a computer program is really impressive.



That is seriously impressive quality. Hopefully we will have more voices coming out that are the same or even better than Solaria in the future.


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, I'm in with Solaria, and I seem to be able to type things into Synth V and have Solaria sing them, well and good. However, I have a list of confusions. (This is with the basic version of Synthesizer V.)
1. The only things I seem to be able to export are MIDI or UST files-no audio.
2. Cubase 10.5 Mac is not seeing a VSTi (or any other) plug in-is this only available with the paid version?
3. I find the tempo bar confusing, but there's a lot confusing me-I guess I can figure that part out. 
4. I started my first experiment with an "I' and the intial plosive is unnaturally loud-is there a way to address that?
Thanks for any help!


----------



## David Cuny

NYC Composer said:


> Well, I'm in with Solaria, and I seem to be able to type things into Synth V and have Solaria sing them, well and good. However, I have a list of confusions. (This is with the basic version of Synthesizer V.)
> 1. The only things I seem to be able to export are MIDI or UST files-no audio.
> 2. Cubase 10.5 Mac is not seeing a VSTi (or any other) plug in-is this only available with the paid version?
> 3. I find the tempo bar confusing, but there's a lot confusing me-I guess I can figure that part out.
> 4. I started my first experiment with an "I' and the initial plosive is unnaturally loud-is there a way to address that?
> Thanks for any help!


1. There's a *Render* panel for rendering audio (see below).
2. The plugin is only with the Pro version.
3. Yes, tempo markers can currently only be set at the bar level.
4. There is a *Strength* option in the Pro version of the editor in the *Notes Property Panel* for AI voices that can reduce the strength of the plosive. You might also experiment with the *Loudness* and *Breathiness* parameters in the *Parameter Panel*. The Pro version has an option in the *Render* panel to render the *Aspiration Output* to a separate track, which makes it easier to edit those sounds in the DAW. Then again, I'm the kind of guy who edits each syllable of a vocal anyway.

*Panels: *You can find the panels either in the *View* menu, or by clicking the icons on the right side of the window. Note that the panels can be scrolled up and down - there are options that may be hidden if you don't scroll them.

Be aware that if you mute a track (the *M *button on the track) it'll still render, but it'll render out silence. That's different than the checkboxes in the *Render* panel, which tell whether to create a *.wav* file or not for that track.


----------



## NYC Composer

Thanks, David! Very helpful. I guess it’s the Pro version for me.

Do I understand that you have to run the stand-alone AND the plug in in a DAW version?


----------



## David Cuny

NYC Composer said:


> Thanks, David! Very helpful. I guess it’s the Pro version for me.
> 
> Do I understand that you have to run the stand-alone AND the plug in a DAW version?


No, standalone means that it runs by itself. The Pro version runs standalone _or_ as a plugin.

I don't run it as a plugin myself, because my poor DAW has enough to do without hosting yet another VSTi. Plus, I'm not sure you can split out aspiration as a separate track in the plugin, and that's a really useful feature for me.

I render out a backing track, and import that into _SynthV_. Then I do the vocal work in there, and render out the .wav files for my DAW.

I keep the standalone and DAW running at the same time when I'm tweaking the vocals because it takes time to re-render the vocal when you launch _SynthV_. I can just toggle between the two, and my DAW sees the files are changed and automatically re-loads them. I just have to make sure the DAW isn't actively using the .wav files, or _SynthV_ complains it can't render because the files are in use.

My most frequent mistake is to mute a track in _SynthV_, and re-render the vocals. That results in that track is rendered as an empty .wav file. Easy enough to fix, but... 

But... whatever process works best for you.


----------



## NYC Composer

Again, very helpful. I’m going to buy Pro and then I’m sure I’ll be begging for help again


----------



## soulofsound

David Cuny said:


> No, standalone means that it runs by itself. The Pro version runs standalone _or_ as a plugin.
> 
> I don't run it as a plugin myself, because my poor DAW has enough to do without hosting yet another VSTi. Plus, I'm not sure you can split out aspiration as a separate track in the plugin, and that's a really useful feature for me.
> 
> I render out a backing track, and import that into _SynthV_. Then I do the vocal work in there, and render out the .wav files for my DAW.
> 
> I keep the standalone and DAW running at the same time when I'm tweaking the vocals because it takes time to re-render the vocal when you launch _SynthV_. I can just toggle between the two, and my DAW sees the files are changed and automatically re-loads them. I just have to make sure the DAW isn't actively using the .wav files, or _SynthV_ complains it can't render because the files are in use.
> 
> My most frequent mistake is to mute a track in _SynthV_, and re-render the vocals. That results in that track is rendered as an empty .wav file. Easy enough to fix, but...
> 
> But... whatever process works best for you.


Very helpful. Thank you.


----------



## Werty

hey, so sweet:


----------



## ToxicRecordings

Werty said:


> hey, so sweet:



This is... amazing.
Are the background vocals solaria as well??


----------



## doctoremmet

So, slightly opportunistic quick question. What’s the best purchasing strategy? Say I want Pro, is it advised to just get that with the Solaria voice database. Or is there another great (preferably male) voice database that qualifies as “must have”? In other words, what’s the current optimal ‘starter package’?


----------



## David Cuny

doctoremmet said:


> So, slightly opportunistic quick question. What’s the best purchasing strategy? Say I want Pro, is it advised to just get that with the Solaria voice database. Or is there another great (preferably male) voice database that qualifies as “must have”? In other words, what’s the current optimal ‘starter package’?


There is currently only one native English male voice, Kevin.

You can get a bundle of the Pro version of the Studio with a single voice (of those offered by Dreamtonics) for $152.

The only option for purchasing Solaria is via Eclipsed Sounds for $90. They don't sell the Pro version of the Studio, so no bundle from them.

The other international reseller is ANiCUTE.


----------



## David Cuny

ToxicRecordings said:


> This is... amazing.
> Are the background vocals solaria as well??


It would appear not. I don't see any additional vocal tracks at the top of the screen.

You'd also see thin lines in the piano roll indicating where other voices are on the track.

It looks like they used a karaoke backing track, and you can see there's also a "sample vocal" audio track for a vocal guide that probably came with the karaoke track.


----------



## doctoremmet

David Cuny said:


> There is currently only one native English male voice, Kevin.
> 
> You can get a bundle of the Pro version of the Studio with a single voice (of those offered by Dreamtonics) for $152.
> 
> The only option for purchasing Solaria is via Eclipsed Sounds for $90. They don't sell the Pro version of the Studio.
> 
> The other international reseller is ANiCUTE.


Highly appreciated David. Is Kevin any good? That Solaria voice has me amazed (and slightly scared).


----------



## David Cuny

doctoremmet said:


> Highly appreciated David. Is Kevin any good? That Solaria voice has me amazed (and slightly scared).


I think it's pretty convincing. Here's a track I did with Kevin, with Kevin and Ryo on the backing vocals:



At 1:40 you can hear the problem with using synth vocal harmonies on bare fourths and fifths.


----------



## odod

doctoremmet said:


> Highly appreciated David. Is Kevin any good? That Solaria voice has me amazed (and slightly scared).


i can vouch for KEVIN and SOLARIA .. they are the best! bought it both .. got the discount code from someone kind  not much but it is really worthy for me, 
anyway, kindly asking for a question, what is the different between Synth V Editor and Studio Pro? i thought it almost the same ..


----------



## doctoremmet

David Cuny said:


> I think it's pretty convincing. Here's a track I did with Kevin, with Kevin and Ryo on the backing vocals:
> 
> 
> 
> At 1:40 you can hear the problem with using synth vocal harmonies on bare fourths and fifths.



Ridiculous! And that’s a HUGE compliment! ❤️


----------



## David Cuny

odod said:


> anyway, kindly asking for a question, what is the different between Synth V Editor and Studio Pro? i thought it almost the same ..


Sorry, I should have used the term "Studio", not "Editor".

The Studio comes in two versions - the free Basic version, and the paid Pro version.

The main difference is that Basic version is limited to having only two vocal and one audio track, although there is no limitation to the song length. The Basic version also doesn't support a VSTi version.

The Basic version is also limited to 2 cores, the full version can use all CPU cores when rendering.

The Pro version has an "Aspiration Output" option that separates the airy part from singing voices, which makes it easier to edit plosives and fricatives.

The non-AI voices have alternative pronunciation versions of phonemes available.

Scripting via JavaScript or Lua is also possible.

I'm sure there are other differences, but Dreamtonics isn't good at updating their website, so that's all I could find.


----------



## NekujaK

These examples are really great, and clearly the tech has come a long long way. A convincing artificial vocalist has been a dream of mine for decades.

That said, we're not there yet. While these voices sound adequately human, they are decidedly soul-less and have a lot of detectable robotic overtones. They may be okay as an occasional affected vocal on a pop song, but they lack the emotional depth and nuanced interpretation of a real singer.

The feeling I get while listening to these voices singing is similar to the feeling I get when watching one of those YT videos narrated by an passionless artificial voice.

This is in no way meant to take away from the incredible efforts by those who have posted examples. I'm just commenting on the quality of the artificial voices, and the overall tech. It's all very encouraging, but there's still a long way to go...


----------



## NYC Composer

@NekujaK,

While I agree with most of your post, I’m still stunned by two quantum leaps-intelligibility and expression have come very far in a short time. I compare these to the word builders I have (EW choir, Realivox blue) and Solaria is light years better.


----------



## David Cuny

NekujaK said:


> That said, we're not there yet. While these voices sound adequately human, they are decidedly soul-less and have a lot of detectable robotic overtones. They may be okay as an occasional affected vocal on a pop song, but they lack the emotional depth and nuanced interpretation of a real singer.


Isn't this _always_ where discussions about using synthetic instruments end up? 

I'm not sure where "there" actually is, if we'll ever arrive "there", or if it's even _important _to arrive "there".

I would hope that, no matter how good synthesis gets, the human version will _always_ be better. For example, while the latest offerings by Musical Sampling are (to my ear) _very_ good, but they are limited to a specific range of dynamics. Even physically modeled instruments like SWAM have expressive limitations.

The "real" version of an instrument should have access to a wider range of expression, dynamics, and techniques. And that's certainly true for voices. Even with human performers, there's always someone who can do more, and better.

I'm just a hobbyist using these voices to prototype songs. I can work out the melody and counterlines without disturbing anyone else in the house. I can change lyrics and hear how it sounds by simply typing in new words.

I don't ever expect a VSTi to be better than real instrument played by a skilled performer.

For my own purposes, it's already "there". YMMV.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

doctoremmet said:


> So, slightly opportunistic quick question. What’s the best purchasing strategy? Say I want Pro, is it advised to just get that with the Solaria voice database. Or is there another great (preferably male) voice database that qualifies as “must have”? In other words, what’s the current optimal ‘starter package’?





doctoremmet said:


> Is Kevin any good? That Solaria voice has me amazed (and slightly scared).


I bought solaria from eclipsed and synth v pro from anicute. The synth v free version is also pretty capable, I bought it just to be able to sell the music I use synth v for. I think solaria is in its own league, none of the other vocal banks sound as good imo (saki is not bad), unless an existing vocal track is morphed with synth v voices. So if you’re planning to use scripts and praat, then the other banks might also be ok, but just by using synth v I don’t think any other banks come close to solaria.


----------



## Bollen

David Cuny said:


> Isn't this _always_ where discussions about using synthetic instruments end up?
> 
> I'm not sure where "there" actually is, if we'll ever arrive "there", or if it's even _important _to arrive "there".
> 
> I would hope that, no matter how good synthesis gets, the human version will _always_ be better. For example, while the latest offerings by Musical Sampling are (to my ear) _very_ good, but they are limited to a specific range of dynamics. Even physically modeled instruments like SWAM have expressive limitations.
> 
> The "real" version of an instrument should have access to a wider range of expression, dynamics, and techniques. And that's certainly true for voices. Even with human performers, there's always someone who can do more, and better.
> 
> I'm just a hobbyist using these voices to prototype songs. I can work out the melody and counterlines without disturbing anyone else in the house. I can change lyrics and hear how it sounds by simply typing in new words.
> 
> I don't ever expect a VSTi to be better than real instrument played by a skilled performer.
> 
> For my own purposes, it's already "there". YMMV.


For me it's almost there, I still very much dislike those moments that sound like an auto-tuner kicked in. I wonder if I might be able to hide it if I put the voice mixed in a choir or chamber orchestra. I'm also wondering if I should just wait to see if the developers of Solaria come out with a male voice in the near future... Or better yet, some classical singers!


----------



## NYC Composer

Kevin and Elinor sound pretty darn good to me.


----------



## Rob

NYC Composer said:


> Kevin and Elinor sound pretty darn good to me.


you mean Eleanor Forte? do you have the full version?


----------



## Rob

David Cuny said:


> Sorry, I should have used the term "Studio", not "Editor".
> 
> The Studio comes in two versions - the free Basic version, and the paid Pro version.
> 
> The main difference is that Basic version is limited to having only two vocal and one audio track, although there is no limitation to the song length. The Basic version also doesn't support a VSTi version.
> 
> The Basic version is also limited to 2 cores, the full version can use all CPU cores when rendering.
> 
> The Pro version has an "Aspiration Output" option that separates the airy part from singing voices, which makes it easier to edit plosives and fricatives.
> 
> The non-AI voices have alternative pronunciation versions of phonemes available.
> 
> Scripting via JavaScript or Lua is also possible.
> 
> I'm sure there are other differences, but Dreamtonics isn't good at updating their website, so that's all I could find.


David, since you seem to be knowledgeable, do you know of a pdf downloadable manual for the synth v? I only find the one online, and it's not exactly rich in information, like how the phonemes have to be written, what exactly tension, voicing etc mean and so on


----------



## NYC Composer

Rob said:


> you mean Eleanor Forte? do you have the full version?


Nope, just Solaria so far, but the demos sound pretty good to me.


----------



## Rob

NYC Composer said:


> Nope, just Solaria so far, but the demos sound pretty good to me.


Thanks Larry, and please post something of what you you'll be doing with the voices... guess it can enhance the songwriting process at least.


----------



## NYC Composer

My first attempt an hour in probably wouldn’t be instructive, but as soon as things improve, definitely


----------



## odod

David Cuny said:


> Sorry, I should have used the term "Studio", not "Editor".
> 
> The Studio comes in two versions - the free Basic version, and the paid Pro version.
> 
> The main difference is that Basic version is limited to having only two vocal and one audio track, although there is no limitation to the song length. The Basic version also doesn't support a VSTi version.
> 
> The Basic version is also limited to 2 cores, the full version can use all CPU cores when rendering.
> 
> The Pro version has an "Aspiration Output" option that separates the airy part from singing voices, which makes it easier to edit plosives and fricatives.
> 
> The non-AI voices have alternative pronunciation versions of phonemes available.
> 
> Scripting via JavaScript or Lua is also possible.
> 
> I'm sure there are other differences, but Dreamtonics isn't good at updating their website, so that's all I could find.


But i have 3 version here hahahaha, the Synth V Editor, Basic and Pro .. I think the Editor is the old version of both Studio Basic and Pro. And somehow i found the bug that on certain word it will rendered a clipping or choked audio file ..


----------



## David Cuny

Rob said:


> David, since you seem to be knowledgeable, do you know of a pdf downloadable manual for the synth v? I only find the one online, and it's not exactly rich in information, like how the phonemes have to be written, what exactly tension, voicing etc mean and so on


As far as I know, there's no such thing.

As you're aware (but others may not), the old version of the manual can be found online here: https://synthesizerv.com/manual/

The online video tutorial is here: 

I found some information on "extra" phonemes included with Solaria in an undocumented script that was included with the voicebank. Of course, if you didn't have the Pro version and didn't think to load the script, you'd never know about them.

*Special Phonemes*

*sil* _(Silence)_ - a phoneme you can insert into notes for a pause. Any amount of space between notes is also considered a *sil*.
*cl* _(Stop/Glottal Stop)_ - a phoneme you can insert to have the vocal perform a stop, *cl* can be used to accurately input words like *uh-oh* or used for singing effect. In some AI voice libraries, a *cl* between or before vowels will sometimes cause the library to perform a vocal fry, this is context dependent, but can provide a unique effect.
*-* _(Melisma)_ The *-* sign can be placed in the lyrics section of a note to extend the previous syllable over the next note, carrying the sound into the current note. If many consecutive notes have *-* in them, they will continue to carry the syllable over multiple notes
*+* _(Syllable)_ A *+* sign can be inserted in the lyrics section of a note to split the word in the previous note into multiple syllables, carrying the next syllable into the current note. If many consecutive notes have *+* in them, they will continue to pass on the syllables.
There are two ways to specify phonemes. One option is to edit the displayed phonemes above the note. The other is to enter the phonemes directly into the note instead of an English word, by starting with a period and then the phonemes, such as *.k ae t*

The second method is safer, because if you change the word after you've modified the phonemes, the phonemes won't automatically adjust unless you manually delete them. So putting the phonemes directly into the word makes it easier to edit later.

*What Is Voicing and Aspiration?*
English vocal sounds can be thought of as having two components: _harmonic_ and _inhamonic_ elements. Harmonic sounds (for example, *iy*) generally made by glottal pulses moving through the oral cavities shaped by the tongue. The tongue creates resonating chambers, and these resonances are what distinguish various vowels.

For example, for a typical male, the *ih* vowel will have resonances at around 400Hz, 2000Hz, and 2550Hz. These resonances are independent of the underlying pitch, so the vowel sounds the same no matter what note it's being sung on.

The pitch of the resonances is directly proportional to the length of the oral cavity, so men's formants are pitched lower than women's, and children's are pitched higher than women's.

Nasals like *m*, *n* and *ng* are formed by using the oral cavity _and_ the nasal cavity.

Inharmonic sounds are generally made by constricting the path of air so that a fricative sound is made, like *f* or *sh*.

English has semi-voiced sounds that correspond to the completely unvoiced sounds. For example, the voiced version of *ch* is *j*, and the voiced version of *sh* is *zh*.

Aspiration is the sound of breath moving through the oral cavity and acquiring the resonances, but not actually having a particular pitch. Think "whispering".

The main thing to keep in mind is that _SynthV_ has the ability to alter the _harmonic_ and _inharmonic_ attributes of the voice independent of each other.

*Parameters

Pitch Deviation: *How much the pitch strays from the note's center pitch, measured in cents. This is the easiest parameter - it's the "wobble" of the pitch. This is the parameter that the AI "auto-tuning" sets.

*Vibrato Envelope: *how much the vibrato Depth (a function of the Note) is scaled. This can be used to make the built-in vibrato less robotic and more realistic.

*Loudness: *Vocal amplitude, corresponds to Voice Loudness. My experience is that this just makes the whole voice louder, but unfortunately _doesn't_ increase the feeling of more or less vocal effort.

*Tension: *How bright the voice is. More tension will be louder, less tension will be softer.

Unnecessary details: I don't think it's documented, but this is a function of the glottal pulse. A glottal pulse has three phases: opening, closing, and closed. The "pulse" of the glottal pulse happens during the opening and closing phases. The longer a glottal pulse is closed, the less wide the pulse is, and the more intense the voice will sound.

*Breathiness: *How much added breathiness/aspiration is in vocal. This is the air "leaking" at the glossis that's not contributing to the glottal pulse. You can also set the global *Breathiness* in the *Voice* parameter.

*Voicing: *Turning this down makes the voice more of a whisper. This is like *Loudness*, but only effects the harmonic portion of the voice.

*Gender: *Shifts the relative position of the formants up or down, generally corresponds to gender. Probably the most important parameter in making a _SynthV _voice sound different than the default.

*Tone Shift: *AI parameter only. Lets you alter the timbre of a note as if it were being sung as a higher or lower pitched note, but only change the timbre, not the pitch. Akin to pitch shifting a sampled neighbor note.


----------



## Rob

David Cuny said:


> As far as I know, there's no such thing.
> 
> As you're aware (but others may not), the old version of the manual can be found online here: https://synthesizerv.com/manual/
> 
> The online video tutorial is here:
> 
> I found some information on "extra" phonemes included with Solaria in an undocumented script that was included with the voicebank. Of course, if you didn't have the Pro version and didn't think to load the script, you'd never know about them.
> 
> *Special Phonemes*
> 
> *sil* _(Silence)_ - a phoneme you can insert into notes for a pause. Any amount of space between notes is also considered a *sil*.
> *cl* _(Stop/Glottal Stop)_ - a phoneme you can insert to have the vocal perform a stop, *cl* can be used to accurately input words like *uh-oh* or used for singing effect. In some AI voice libraries, a *cl* between or before vowels will sometimes cause the library to perform a vocal fry, this is context dependent, but can provide a unique effect.
> *-* _(Melisma)_ The *-* sign can be placed in the lyrics section of a note to extend the previous syllable over the next note, carrying the sound into the current note. If many consecutive notes have *-* in them, they will continue to carry the syllable over multiple notes
> *+* _(Syllable)_ A *+* sign can be inserted in the lyrics section of a note to split the word in the previous note into multiple syllables, carrying the next syllable into the current note. If many consecutive notes have *+* in them, they will continue to pass on the syllables.
> There are two ways to specify phonemes. One option is to edit the displayed phonemes above the note. The other is to enter the phonemes directly into the note instead of an English word, by starting with a period and then the phonemes, such as *.k ae t*
> 
> The second method is safer, because if you change the word after you've modified the phonemes, the phonemes won't automatically adjust unless you manually delete them. So putting the phonemes directly into the word makes it easier to edit later.
> 
> *What Is Voicing and Aspiration?*
> English vocal sounds can be thought of as having two components: _harmonic_ and _inhamonic_ elements. Harmonic sounds (for example, *iy*) generally made by glottal pulses moving through the oral cavities shaped by the tongue. The tongue creates resonating chambers, and these resonances are what distinguish various vowels.
> 
> For example, for a typical male, the *ih* vowel will have resonances at around 400Hz, 2000Hz, and 2550Hz. These resonances are independent of the underlying pitch, so the vowel sounds the same no matter what note it's being sung on.
> 
> The pitch of the resonances is directly proportional to the length of the oral cavity, so men's formants are pitched lower than women's, and children's are pitched higher than women's.
> 
> Nasals like *m*, *n* and *ng* are formed by using the oral cavity _and_ the nasal cavity.
> 
> Inharmonic sounds are generally made by constricting the path of air so that a fricative sound is made, like *f* or *sh*.
> 
> English has semi-voiced sounds that correspond to the completely unvoiced sounds. For example, the voiced version of *ch* is *j*, and the voiced version of *sh* is *zh*.
> 
> Aspiration is the sound of breath moving through the oral cavity and acquiring the resonances, but not actually having a particular pitch. Think "whispering".
> 
> The main thing to keep in mind is that _SynthV_ has the ability to alter the _harmonic_ and _inharmonic_ attributes of the voice independent of each other.
> 
> *Parameters
> 
> Pitch Deviation: H*ow much the pitch strays from the note's center pitch, measured in cents. This is the easiest parameter - it's the "wobble" of the pitch. This is the parameter that the AI "auto-tuning" sets.
> 
> *Vibrato Envelope: *how much the vibrato Depth (a function of the Note) is scaled. This can be used to make the built-in vibrato less robotic and more realistic.
> 
> *Loudness: *Vocal amplitude, corresponds to Voice Loudness. My experience is that this just makes the whole voice louder, but unfortunately _doesn't_ increase the feeling of more or less vocal effort.
> 
> *Tension: *How bright the voice is. More tension will be louder, less tension will be softer.
> 
> Unnecessary details: I don't think it's documented, but this is a function of the glottal pulse. A glottal pulse has three phases: opening, closing, and closed. The "pulse" of the glottal pulse happens during the opening and closing phases. The longer a glottal pulse is closed, the less wide the pulse is, and the more intense the voice will sound.
> 
> *Breathiness: *How much added breathiness/aspiration is in vocal. This is the air "leaking" at the glossis that's not contributing to the glottal pulse. You can also set the global *Breathiness* in the *Voice* parameter.
> 
> *Voicing: *Turning this down makes the voice more of a whisper. This is like *Loudness*, but only effects the harmonic portion of the voice.
> 
> *Gender: *Shifts the relative position of the formants up or down, generally corresponds to gender. Probably the most important parameter in making a _SynthV _voice sound different than the default.
> 
> *Tone Shift: *AI parameter only. Lets you alter the timbre of a note as if it were being sung higher or lower pitched note, but only change the timbre, not the pitch. Akin to pitch shifting a sampled neighbor note.



Thank you so much David, for taking the time to reply in such detail, really appreciated.


----------



## rogierhofboer

The phonemes are in ARPABET:





ARPABET - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





I've found these on vocaverse
https://vocaverse.network/resources/the-ultimate-synthesizer-v-phoneme-chart.40
pdf posted by uncreepy

and the the synth v forum








Please help, newbie here


Keep this on your desktop




forum.synthesizerv.com




png posted by bellerandre


----------



## Rob

rogierhofboer said:


> The phonemes are in ARPABET:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ARPABET - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've found these on vocaverse
> https://vocaverse.network/resources/the-ultimate-synthesizer-v-phoneme-chart.40
> pdf posted by uncreepy
> 
> and the the synth v forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please help, newbie here
> 
> 
> Keep this on your desktop
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forum.synthesizerv.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> png posted by bellerandre


thank you!


----------



## AceAudioHQ

I've been trying some other styles with solaria, here's some r&b. Bought the SSL Vocal Strip 2 today and it worked with the vocals nicely.


----------



## ip20

AceAudioHQ said:


> I've been trying some other styles with solaria, here's some r&b. Bought the SSL Vocal Strip 2 today and it worked with the vocals nicely.



Sounds great!


----------



## AceAudioHQ

ip20 said:


> Sounds great!


Thanks! I think solaria can sound very real but there are certainly some things you need to steer away from or it will give it away, some words, the range, passages that are too fast or short, so even though it’s synthesis, it has the same kinds of problems as a sample library


----------



## R. Soul

SyMTiK said:


> This was the most impressive demo I have seen so far. Very few moments in here that gave away its a vocaloid (honestly, only the famous belt section in the bridge gave it away to me. Haleys original is incredibly hard to match hahaha), one of the most expressive and human demos i have heard. Still looks like a pretty great deal of editing went into making the vocal sound this good, but the fact that this is possible with a computer program is really impressive.



Wow... the only artifacts I hear in there is no different to a standard Pop vocal where auto tune has been used just a tad too heavily. Really impressed with this.
I wonder how much editing went into this?

While Adele won't be out of job soon, the likes of Madonna and Kylie just might be


----------



## RobbertZH

Two days ago I started to use Synthesizer V Pro.

Notes are drawn on the key editor (keyboard shown at the left plus horizontal and vertical grid lines to place each note on the correct pitch and beat).

But I am really squinting to my screen when drawing notes, as the vertical grid lines are shown in a very trendy but badly visible low-contrast dark greys on a black background. This makes it difficult for me to place the notes on the correct time grid.

1) Is there an option which I may have overlooked to change the color scheme to a higher contrast?

2) And is there an option to change the horizontal scale (so less or more notes are displayed horizontally)?


----------



## R. Soul

I'm floored by this demo.
Voice completely naked - apart from reverb.
Only minor issue I find is the sustained 'cried' word, which could have used some more vibrato from the get go, but it seems like that's a choice of the user, more than a limitation of the program.


----------



## micrologus

I just bought Solaria and Kevin, it's incredible.


----------



## soulofsound

micrologus said:


> I just bought Solaria and Kevin, it's incredible.


Programming is ace, too.


----------



## David Cuny

RobbertZH said:


> 1) Is there an option which I may have overlooked to change the color scheme to a higher contrast?


No. 

In the original version of the editor, there was an option of changing the color scheme, and I _think_ the size of the font.

Then they hired a UX firm that apparently never worked with people with disabilities, and ended up with a non-resizeable, low-contrast theme. The new functionally was great, but for people with vision issues? Not so much.




RobbertZH said:


> 1) Is there an option which I may have overlooked to change the color scheme to a higher contrast?
> 
> 2) And is there an option to change the horizontal scale (so less or more notes are displayed horizontally)?


You can use the following hotkeys with the mouse wheel to adjust the viewport:

• Mouse Wheel: Vertical scroll
• Shift+Mouse Wheel: Horizontal scroll
• Ctrl+Mouse Wheel: Horizontal zoom ← *This is what you wanted*


----------



## RobbertZH

David Cuny said:


> No.
> 
> In the original version of the editor, there was an option of changing the color scheme, and I _think_ the size of the font.
> 
> Then they hired a UX firm that apparently never worked with people with disabilities, and ended up with a non-resizeable, low-contrast theme. The new functionally was great, but for people with vision issues? Not so much.
> 
> 
> 
> You can use the following hotkeys with the mouse wheel to adjust the viewport:
> 
> • Mouse Wheel: Vertical scroll
> • Shift+Mouse Wheel: Horizontal scroll
> • Ctrl+Mouse Wheel: Horizontal zoom ← *This is what you wanted*


Thanks again for your helpful answer (about the horizontal zoom).

For the contrast, I will try to use the graphical card settings to increase the contrast, but that is of course a workaround that affects the whole of microsoft windows.

I am now adding Eleonor vocals to an older piece of mine.
You earlier extensives answers in this forum thread will help me to fine-tune the vocals.

My piece was made in 2016 and is about the Syrian refuges.
Sadly the lyrics are actual again, but now concerning the Ukraine.


----------



## David Cuny

RobbertZH said:


> For the contrast, I will try to use the graphical card settings to increase the contrast, but that is of course a workaround that affects the whole of microsoft windows.


You might try going into the Windows *Display* settings, and set *Scale and Layout* to something higher, like 125% or 150%. Keep in mind that you can resize the panes in _SynthV_, so you'll want to adjust them after you resize the screen.

It won't change the contrast, but the larger text will be much easier to see, so you might not have as much issue with the contrast. And then you can go back to normal scaling after you're done using _SynthV_.


----------



## SyMTiK

R. Soul said:


> Wow... the only artifacts I hear in there is no different to a standard Pop vocal where auto tune has been used just a tad too heavily. Really impressed with this.
> I wonder how much editing went into this?
> 
> While Adele won't be out of job soon, the likes of Madonna and Kylie just might be


Judging by the automation on the bottom, looks like quite a bit went into it to get this result. However, Can't say its much different than working in Melodyne on a really bad vocalist hahaha


----------



## Anthony

RobbertZH said:


> Two days ago I started to use Synthesizer V Pro.
> 
> Notes are drawn on the key editor (keyboard shown at the left plus horizontal and vertical grid lines to place each note on the correct pitch and beat).
> 
> But I am really squinting to my screen when drawing notes, as the vertical grid lines are shown in a very trendy but badly visible low-contrast dark greys on a black background. This makes it difficult for me to place the notes on the correct time grid.
> 
> 1) Is there an option which I may have overlooked to change the color scheme to a higher contrast?
> 
> 2) And is there an option to change the horizontal scale (so less or more notes are displayed horizontally)?


Can you enter notes into a MIDI track in your DAW where the visibility, presumably, is better and then 'read' them into the Synthesizer V Pro plugin?

This is what I do when using Emvoice One.


----------



## RobbertZH

Anthony said:


> Can you enter notes into a MIDI track in your DAW where the visibility, presumably, is better and then 'read' them into the Synthesizer V Pro plugin?
> 
> This is what I do when using Emvoice One.


Good that you mentioned it.
Yes, I now found a midi import that translates each midi note to a "la" note in the key editor.
That makes a good starting point.

But as I am now experimenting if I can make the vocal melody better by moving a note earlier or later, then it is best and most immediate to do that in the key editor of Synthesizer V. 
But badly visible vertical grid lines makes it difficult.

I am not the only one who has trouble with the visibility.
It is also mentioned by two other users on the "bug and requested feature" sub-forum
of Synthesizer V:









Visibility of piano roll lines, distance to quantize value, etc. ピアノロールの視認性、クォンタイズ値への距離など


A. 私のPC画面ではピアノロールのラインが区別しにくいので見やすくしてほしいです。拍数を把握するのに集中を割り振らなくてはならないため煩わしいです。例えばStudio oneのピアノロールは小節、4分音符、それ以下の細かい音符で線種やコントラストがもう少しはっきりしていて、区別しやすいです。 The piano roll lines are difficult to distinguish on my PC screen, so I want them to be easier to see. It’s annoying because I have to allocate...




forum.synthesizerv.com













Piano roll: why black and while background only?? need color adjustment functions


When key in notes to the piano roll of Synthesizer V Studio Pro, I can hardly see the vertical lines with black background. Like Logic Pro X don’t we need color adjustment functions of the background of piano roll? I prefer beige background and brown vertical lines. So far our dealer told me...




forum.synthesizerv.com


----------



## RobbertZH

About the badly visible vertical grid lines (black lines on a dark gray background)
(showing the beat division and used for aligning the notes) in the key editor,
I just tested the following workaround which makes the vertical grid lines a bit better visible.

My NVIDIA graphic card has a Control Panel that I can open by right clicking on the windows 10 desktop and selecting NVIDIA Control Panel from the popup menu. In the control panel, I select Display -> Adjust Desktop Color Settings.
By default "Other applications control color settings" is selected.
I switch that to "Use NVIDIA settings".

These are the default settings:
Brightness: 50%
Contrast: 50%
Gamma: + 1

When I change these to the following values, the vertical grid lines becomes better visible:
Brightness: 50%
Contrast: 100%
Gamma: + 2.1

What works best for you, may also depend on your monitor, so I would advise experimenting with these three settings.

WARNING: these graphical settings effect the whole of windows including all the applications you may run !!! So you do want to change these settings ONLY when editing in Synthesizer V. 
As soon as you are finished there, switch back to the old settings (in this specific control panel, go back to select "Other applications control color settings" and pressing "Cancel" to cancel any change of settings).

I assume that other brands or models of graphical cards have a similar control panel application in which you can set similar settings as above mentioned.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

I have no problems with the grid line visibility, but I'm always expecting dark colored button to be in pressed state, light to be unpressed, and it's the opposite, also the draw/select button is a toggle, so I might put it in in draw mode by clicking the select mode.

Also, if you press enter in a menu that has cancel and ok, pressing enter takes the cancel, when it usually takes ok in other programs. Don't know if this a japanese thing or just a synth v thing. 

Also if i'm drawing a note, and the space runs out, and I'm dragging to the right to scroll for more space, the note instantly changes to 1/16 note.

Other than that, I don't have much to complain about, maybe the one when I render the track in my daw, the synth v vocals are missing, I have to export the vocals from synth v and add it as a wav file to my daw to be able to export the whole track


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Tried Solaria on Baka Mitai (from Yakuza 5 OST), got to phonemes and advanced editing. I think it sounds fairly good in some parts. No idea how it sounds to a native speaker though :>



edit. Updated this with a newer version and a video on the editor


----------



## soulofsound

AceAudioHQ said:


> Tried Solaria on Baka Mitai (from Yakuza 5 OST), got to phonemes and advanced editing. I think it sounds fairly good in some parts



Sounds great. Arrangement is even better i think.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

soulofsound said:


> Sounds great. Arrangement is even better i think.


Yea the background is great, it's the original, I only did the vocal arrangement


----------



## David Cuny

Anthony said:


> Can you enter notes into a MIDI track in your DAW where the visibility, presumably, is better and then 'read' them into the Synthesizer V Pro plugin?


You _can_ export the MIDI from you DAW and read it into _SynthV_. But that's a one-way trip.

I can't imagine how you'd make the data bidirectional. MIDI data is a stream of timestamped NoteOn and NoteOff events. There's no concept of a "note", so there's no identifier for notes.

If you modified a note in the DAW, there's no protocol for telling the VSTi that a "note" was modified. The only thing the VSTi sees is a NoteOn and NoteOff event, and it has to infer that a "note" happened between those two events.

That's why there's a delay with a lot of VSTis that do clever stuff like NotePerformer. The only way they know how long a note lasts is to wait for a NoteOff event.


----------



## Loo

Wow, Synthesizer V sounds so good! And it's Native Apple silicon too.

Will Synthesizer V Studio Pro and the voice databases ever go on sale deeper than the 10% bundle?


----------



## Markrs

Loo said:


> Wow, Synthesizer V sounds so good! And it's Native Apple silicon too.
> 
> Will Synthesizer V Studio Pro and the voice databases ever go on sale deeper than the 10% bundle?


I don't think it had ever been on sale, others in here might know better. I am yet to buy it though I have been sorely tempted every time I hear a piece of music using the Solaria voice.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Loo said:


> Will Synthesizer V Studio Pro and the voice databases ever go on sale deeper than the 10% bundle?


Japanese and chinese developer are often quite stingy with discounts, at the moment anicute has some Synth V discounts but the discounts are something like $2 per product. I think the bundles are the cheapest way to go, though they save you only so much, and you can't get some voice banks in bundles anyways.


----------



## ip20

AceAudioHQ said:


> Tried Solaria on Baka Mitai (from Yakuza 5 OST), got to phonemes and advanced editing. I think it sounds fairly good in some parts. No idea how it sounds to a native speaker though :>
> 
> 
> 
> edit. Updated this with a newer version and a video on the editor



Great job! What processing (reverb/delay in particular) did you use on it?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

ip20 said:


> Great job! What processing (reverb/delay in particular) did you use on it?


Thanks! The reverb is Soundtoys Little Plate. No delay. Other processing on it is a stock compressor from my daw (Renoise), SSL Native Vocal Strip 2 and Melda production MAutoPitch


----------



## NYC Composer

Hey all-here's a one minute bossa I wrote using Solaria-please rip it apart and make suggestions on how to improve it. I'm just getting started and there's a lot I don't know, like pitch bending and how to control plosives-You'll hear an "I've" at the end that really pops out..also how to make tuning a little less precise, etc etc. Tell me anything, thanks!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zx8joffhr8p4z6b/Do%20You%20Love%20Me%20rev%204%20032122.aif?dl=0


----------



## szczaw

AceAudioHQ said:


> Japanese and chinese developer are often quite stingy with discounts, at the moment anicute has some Synth V discounts but the discounts are something like $2 per product.


Haha, why bother ?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

NYC Composer said:


> Hey all-here's a one minute bossa I wrote using Solaria-please rip it apart and make suggestions on how to improve it I'm just getting started and there's a lot I don't know, like pitch bending and how to control plosives-You'll hear an "I've" at the end that really pops out..also how to make tuning a little less precise, etc etc. Tell me anything, thanks!


The first thing you should do is select all notes and run it through the automation (auto process->auto pitch tuning) and then fix the errors or rerun it on some notes with different seed/settings. Also make more intentional mistakes on the vocal track, it will make it more human and less like a perfect robot. Add pauses between notes, the singer needs to breathe from time to time. Exaggerate the beginnings and endings of the notes by starting and ending way lower/higher than the note intended, add melisma.


----------



## David Cuny

NYC Composer said:


> Hey all-here's a one minute bossa I wrote using Solaria-please rip it apart and make suggestions on how to improve it. I'm just getting started and there's a lot I don't know, like pitch bending and how to control plosives-You'll hear an "I've" at the end that really pops out..also how to make tuning a little less precise, etc etc. Tell me anything, thanks!


My first thought is that it sounds a bit _too_ smooth and Autotuned™. It's also at the top of the vocal range, which automatically sounds a bit more synthetic. So you've got more work than usual.

Using the auto-tune feature as AceAudioHQ suggested above should go a long way with helping. Be sure to adjust the parameters in the dialog.

As for plosives, in the *Render* panel, under *Format | Aspiration Output*, choose *As extra files (isolated) *to render the aspiration out to a separate, which will be easier to edit.

Envelopes will also help tame some of the pops. For example, here's the lyric _"I still hear..."_. You can see that the there's a bit of a punch at the start of the */ey/ *, the */s/* is fairly loud, and the */t/* pops.






By slicing and applying envelopes, you can adjust the vocal to be smoother:






And yes, the example vocal here _is_ clipping. Make sure you adjust the output amplitude in _SynthV_ so this doesn't happen to you!


----------



## Bollen

NYC Composer said:


> Hey all-here's a one minute bossa I wrote using Solaria-please rip it apart and make suggestions on how to improve it. I'm just getting started and there's a lot I don't know, like pitch bending and how to control plosives-You'll hear an "I've" at the end that really pops out..also how to make tuning a little less precise, etc etc. Tell me anything, thanks!
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zx8joffhr8p4z6b/Do%20You%20Love%20Me%20rev%204%20032122.aif?dl=0


Oh! So it is still possible to sound quite robotic with it... I wonder how much it can improve just following @David Cuny 's advice?


----------



## NYC Composer

We’re going to find out! Thanks for the feedback guys. So far I haven’t done any rendering, this is output straight from the DAW…nor have I figured out aspirations.

Where is this Autotune processing, please? (To me, it sounds WAY Autotuned so this is a little confusing to me.)


----------



## AceAudioHQ

The first thing to do is to get rid of the completely symmetrical waveforms, which synth v writes by default, the left one sounds very fake, the right one sounds realistic, that alone helps a lot






Then it's adding the small things that a real singer does when singing, they rarely hit the notes exactly but instead they start higher or lower and tune into it, and also they might exit lower or higher, so instead of the left one, which is boring and unrealistic, try the right one


----------



## NYC Composer

Thanks Ace-so, basically like adding a Grace note, yes? And I assume melismas are achieved by multiple fast notes in a riff.

I’ve been producing singers for 40 years, btw. It’s the tool I don’t know yet, thanks for any help.

@Bollen-don’t blame the tools, blame the novice!


----------



## AceAudioHQ

NYC Composer said:


> Thanks Ace-so, basically like adding a Grace note, yes? And I assume melismas are achieved by multiple fast notes in a riff.


Yes, though not as in tune as a regular instrument, so more mistakes might sound better. maybe you can compare it to a trombone since it doesn’t have stops. You can also go to youtube, search for some realistic synth v songs, and when you hear a part you like, look how it was done (most videos have the editor running in the background)


----------



## NYC Composer

How does one make a mistake in Synth V? How do you make a note more imperfect?

Thanks for the suggestion, will check out YouTube for sure


----------



## AceAudioHQ

NYC Composer said:


> How does one make a mistake in Synth V? How do you make a note more imperfect?


Detune it in different parts of the note, you can use different seed in the automation or draw the curves by hand


----------



## Rob

NYC Composer said:


> We’re going to find out! Thanks for the feedback guys. So far I haven’t done any rendering, this is output straight from the DAW…nor have I figured out aspirations.
> 
> Where is this Autotune processing, please? (To me, it sounds WAY Autotuned so this is a little confusing to me.)


Larry, it's "auto pitch tuning", a very different process than autotune... it changes the tuning of the track in subtle or not so subtle ways to make it non-static. Under the "Auto Process" menu


----------



## NYC Composer

Ah HA! Thanks Rob!


----------



## NekujaK

David Cuny said:


> I don't ever expect a VSTi to be better than real instrument played by a skilled performer.
> 
> For my own purposes, it's already "there". YMMV.


I agree, for mocking up songs, Synth V in its current form is definitely a useful tool. And I can see pop songs making use of Synth V vocals in actual productions.

In general, my own perspective is highly, and perhaps unfairly, skewed, since my wife is a professional jazz singer/recording artist, so I'm pretty much at ground zero when it comes to picking apart vocals. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to evaluate this technology objectively  

That said, I am keenly interested in this area, and am always looking for an effective way of replacing my own woefully sub-standard vocals without having to hire a singer.

I recently evaluated text-to-speech technologies for a client, and there are some amazing contenders out there. Among the best is the frighteningly natural-sounding https://wellsaidlabs.com/ So the technology to "sound human" definitely exists and is clearly getting better all the time.

Some of the things that bother me most about Synth V at this point are:

The amount of effort required to create a decent-sounding vocal. This is a big barrier to entry. Having to manually tweak waveforms and indivdual notes is not something I have time or inclination to do. Hopefully, some sort of AI-type processing can be implemented to streamline a lot of the manual and repetitive tweaking.
All the English voices so far, are relentlessly Caucasian-sounding. Is there a way to get around that by manipulating the phonemes? If not, hopefully future voices will be available that lend themselves better to R&B-oriented styles. In the same vein, voices that are more aggressive and suited for rock, would also be welcome. And what about country music! Can we program a drawl?
Even in the best Solaria examples, I hear synthy-robotic overtones in nearly all notes. Until that can be solved, mockups and perhaps some pop songs, are the only true uses for Synth V.
Eagerly anticipating future developments...


----------



## David Cuny

NekujaK said:


> Some of the things that bother me most about Synth V at this point are:
> 
> The amount of effort required to create a decent-sounding vocal. This is a big barrier to entry. Having to manually tweak waveforms and individual notes is not something I have time or inclination to do. Hopefully, some sort of AI-type processing can be implemented to streamline a lot of the manual and repetitive tweaking.


In general, the low-level tweaking that I apply is about the same as I do to normal vocals. I think that's a normal part of vocal processing, which is why even with professional vocalists you've got the use of Melodyne, compressors, tools to handle silibance, and so on.

Then again, I'm not a pro, so my vocals _need_ processing more than a professional's would.

Unless I'm misunderstanding your point.



> All the English voices so far, are relentlessly Caucasian-sounding. Is there a way to get around that by manipulating the phonemes? If not, hopefully future voices will be available that lend themselves better to R&B-oriented styles. In the same vein, voices that are more aggressive and suited for rock, would also be welcome. And what about country music! Can we program a drawl?


If you use a non-native English AI vocal, you'll get a slight Japanese or Chinese accent with no phoneme manipulation required. 

But your point is well taken. The voices optimally needs to be recorded in a timbre close to the target. And the original version of Eleanor Forte over-articulated the vocals, and it was hard to remove.

_SynthesizerV_ records the artist singing vocals, and the closer the recording is to a particular style, the less work needs to be done to make it genre appropriate. That's obvious from Solaria.

The Solaria voice was also trained on musical examples, which is where the auto-tune AI comes from. Using a different singer with a different vocal style will give different choices.

I know that the team that did Solaria is interested in creating additional voices, and there's certainly demand for a male rock voice.

But I don't think you'll get out of having to edit at the phoneme level. A lot of the words in different genres use nonstandard pronunciation, and singing often involves subtle vowel choices. I suspect that the *Strength* option is useful in finding alternate pronunciations.

But a classical timbre is still going to sound classical, even if you give it a drawl. 



> Even in the best Solaria examples, I hear synthy-robotic overtones in nearly all notes. Until that can be solved, mockups and perhaps some pop songs, are the only true uses for Synth V.


I know that Kanru is constantly working on improving the technology behind _SynthesizerV_. I suspect that part of what you're hearing comes from the slightly lower resolution of the AI voices.

But time will tell.


----------



## RobbertZH

This is my very first tryout of Synth V (with Eleonor Forte).
It was a song I made in 2016 and now redone with Synth V.

The vocal range goes in places a bit to high (mainly the chorus) in pitch. Normally when you compose for a specific singer, you take into account his/her optimal singing range. If you use any of the Synth V vocalists, you should do the same. In this case however, I had an existing song and let Eleonor Forte sing it. And the vocal range of my song did go rather high for this vocal.

A good thing, by using Synth V, I could easily experiment.
For example, originally all notes were on the strong beats and that sounded a bit boring.
I then moved notes around in time, to hear if it the melody would become more interesting (it did).
I also changed some words of the lyrics.

You have loads of voice and note parameters and I experimented with those too.
I made the singing of the verses rather staccato and the voice a bit unsure (wobbly).
Then when reaching the chorus, the singing is legato and more sure.

The song starts simple, with only piano as accompaniment.
Later strings, choirs and drums are added.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

This voice bank (Xingchen, or Stardust) was released for SynthV last month, I kinda like it. Originally a vocaloid bank.


----------



## AkashicBird

I did a search in this thread (also browsed Youtube but strangely there's not a lot of review/tutos on SynthV it seems) but I'm still not sure about one thing : can you use a midi device to record notes directly in the plugin?


----------



## David Cuny

AkashicBird said:


> I did a search in this thread (also browsed Youtube but strangely there's not a lot of review/tutos on SynthV it seems) but I'm still not sure about one thing : can you use a midi device to record notes directly in the plugin?


No, you can't. All you can do is import MIDI.

There are reasons for that, but the bottom line is: no.


----------



## AkashicBird

Thanks. Aw, too bad...I've just watched a review of EMVoice and it can do that which is pretty cool...but EMVoice needs the computer to be online to work and I don't like that idea for various reasons. I might just end up getting Synthesizer V after all, I got too use composing with a keyboard but mouse once in a while might not be that bothersome after all.


----------



## David Cuny

AkashicBird said:


> Thanks. Aw, too bad...I've just watched a review of EMVoice and it can do that which is pretty cool...but EMVoice needs the computer to be online to work and I don't like that idea for various reasons. I might just end up getting Synthesizer V after all, I got too use composing with a keyboard but mouse once in a while might not be that bothersome after all.


Keep in mind, you can _import_ a MIDI file into _SynthesizerV_. And that MIDI file can be created in your favorite DAW or Notation program.

It's just that it's a one-way trip.

MIDI doesn't have a concept of notes, only of timestamped events. So once you've got it in _SynthesizerV_, there's no way of linking the note data back to you DAW, because the concept of "note" is lost when your DAW sends information to a VSTi. All the VSTi sees (I assume) is MIDI NoteOn and NoteOff events. There's no actual "note".


----------



## NYC Composer

This was pretty damn disappointing to me as well, but it is what it is.

Meanwhile, here’s the latest rev of my bossa nova. Lots more work to do but I think I’m getting there thanks to help from some kind folk here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hfl3x950is8pnmi/Do%20You%20Love%20Me%20rev%205%20032222.aif?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/hfl3x950is8pnmi/Do You Love Me rev 5 032222.aif?dl=0)


----------



## szczaw

HC cycles through words. When note is on, a vowel in a syllable is sustained, and on next note the rest of the word is played. This allows to play lyrics with a keyboard.


----------



## Hataori

szczaw said:


> HC cycles through words. When note is on, a vowel in accented syllable is sustained, and on note off the rest of the word is played. This allows to play lyrics with a keyboard.


There is a completely MIDI controlled synth called Alter Ego which you can play like you say.

_"It is specially tailored for musical needs – simply type in your lyrics, and then play on your MIDI keyboard."_

I intalled it onece and tried to do anything with it, but couldn't. Probably because I can't play on keyboard. 

But are you able to play so that you press the key in advance in order the vowel can start at right time?
NoteOn event starts playing the consonants which are before the vowel (start of sylable) but normaly when singing, at the note start should be the vowel.

I hope you understand - this is maximum I can do with my English 😅


----------



## szczaw

Hataori said:


> There is a completely MIDI controlled synth called Alter Ego which you can play like you say.


Thanks for the link. I'll check it out. I think that both, playing with an instrument and note editing, have uses and advantages.


----------



## szczaw

Hataori said:


> I hope you understand - this is maximum I can do with my English 😅


No sweat, your English is fine.


----------



## Michael AD

I can confirm that Alter Ego will let you play the lyrics you've entered, which makes it a great toy for jamming. The pitch it plays is determined by the note you strike on your keyboard, so you can play with a phrase and have it play any melody in any pitch range. Of course, the extreme pitch ranges can get rather bizarre-sounding, but even that might be useful for some situations.


----------



## R. Soul

Just got Synthesizer V + Solaria. Sounds great.
There seems to be very little in terms of English tutorials though.
I'm not even sure how to do a basic thing like having a word glide from one note to another?
Cause if you 'split' a word, it somehow misses out the last syllable.


----------



## Hataori

R. Soul said:


> I'm not even sure how to do a basic thing like having a word glide from one note to another?


Use + in lyrics of next notes - it will pull sylables from the 1st note.


----------



## David Cuny

Check out the tutorial videos here.

The "+" is used mark a new syllable of a prior note, and the "-" denotes an extention of the prior note, but still part of the same syllable.

Check out this video from the prior list.


----------



## Bollen

NYC Composer said:


> This was pretty damn disappointing to me as well, but it is what it is.
> 
> Meanwhile, here’s the latest rev of my bossa nova. Lots more work to do but I think I’m getting there thanks to help from some kind folk here:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hfl3x950is8pnmi/Do%20You%20Love%20Me%20rev%205%20032222.aif?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/hfl3x950is8pnmi/Do You Love Me rev 5 032222.aif?dl=0)


Oh you changed the melody? It's better, but still quite robotic. I'm starting to think it takes a lot of work... In particular the "there" pronunciation seems very off. I also suggest dropping the volume of some of the consonants e.g. the D in do, the Y on you, etc.


----------



## NYC Composer

Good points. 

I didn’t change the melody, except in very minor ways. I did change the key


----------



## NYC Composer

Actually, listening back, I really don’t hear a problem with there.


----------



## Knute5

Blancanegra said:


> Hi Knute, thank you for the compliment!.
> 
> With those demos I intended to highlight the expressiveness that can be achieved with little editing work, regardless of whether the pronunciation is perfect. English is not my first tongue and there are certain things that escape my ears (I focus first on the musicality and the rhythm of the phonemes rather than the correct pronunciation) but I will check that "live" pronunciation!
> 
> On the other hand, I don't know if you find it interesting that I publish the files.
> 
> I don't know Reba McEntire music and she has a huge discography, could you tell me some sample songs from her, and even some gospel songs you like?. I will like to try that, but take into account that Solaria's voice is pop style, and does not have the particularities that characterize a country voice.


Reba McIntyre's hits are vast. "Fancy" or "The Night the Lights Went Out In Georgia" or "Whoever's in New England" are good examples.

As far as gospel as concerned, I get it. Not Solaria for the growly stuff like Aretha or Shirley Caesar, etc. But I think Solaria would be ok for Yolanda Adams ("I Open Up My Heart") or Cece Winans ("Never Lost") both whom have voices in Solaria's timbral spectrum.


----------



## Blancanegra

Knute5 said:


> Reba McIntyre's hits are vast. "Fancy" or "The Night the Lights Went Out In Georgia" or "Whoever's in New England" are good examples.
> 
> As far as gospel as concerned, I get it. Not Solaria for the growly stuff like Aretha or Shirley Caesar, etc. But I think Solaria would be ok for Yolanda Adams ("I Open Up My Heart") or Cece Winans ("Never Lost") both whom have voices in Solaria's timbral spectrum.


The caracteristic country nasal tone cannot be reproduced but maybe in the future could be possible to hold the nose of Synth V voicebanks in the same manner Audio Modeling emulates the trumpet mutes in their Swam engine.

From all of those suggestions I feel tempted to try "Never Lost", I find it the most entertaining to edit.

Meanwhile, enjoy this little country test:

Cowboy's sweetheart (Patsy Montana)
View attachment Cowboy's sweetheart test.mp3


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> The caracteristic country nasal tone cannot be reproduced but maybe in the future could be possible to hold the nose of Synth V voicebanks in the same manner Audio Modeling emulates the trumpet mutes in their Swam engine.
> 
> From all of those suggestions I feel tempted to try "Never Lost", I find it the most entertaining to edit.
> 
> Meanwhile, enjoy this little country test:
> 
> Cowboy's sweetheart (Patsy Montana)
> View attachment Cowboy's sweetheart test.mp3


Brilliant country sound.


----------



## madfloyd

Blancanegra said:


> The caracteristic country nasal tone cannot be reproduced but maybe in the future could be possible to hold the nose of Synth V voicebanks in the same manner Audio Modeling emulates the trumpet mutes in their Swam engine.
> 
> From all of those suggestions I feel tempted to try "Never Lost", I find it the most entertaining to edit.
> 
> Meanwhile, enjoy this little country test:
> 
> Cowboy's sweetheart (Patsy Montana)
> View attachment Cowboy's sweetheart test.mp3


Which voice is this?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

madfloyd said:


> Which voice is this?


Sounds like solaria


----------



## Knute5

Blancanegra said:


> The caracteristic country nasal tone cannot be reproduced but maybe in the future could be possible to hold the nose of Synth V voicebanks in the same manner Audio Modeling emulates the trumpet mutes in their Swam engine.
> 
> From all of those suggestions I feel tempted to try "Never Lost", I find it the most entertaining to edit.
> 
> Meanwhile, enjoy this little country test:
> 
> Cowboy's sweetheart (Patsy Montana)
> View attachment Cowboy's sweetheart test.mp3


Really nice. Texas Swing works...


----------



## baggage

New Engine update!
https://dreamtonics.com/en/synthesizer-v-studio-1-6-0-update/
Now featuring "Vocal Mode" which affects the timbre of voices, and "Instant Mode" for using auto pitch tuning while editing vocals in real time


----------



## Blancanegra

madfloyd said:


> Which voice is this?


Solaria!


----------



## Blancanegra

baggage said:


> New Engine update!
> https://dreamtonics.com/en/synthesizer-v-studio-1-6-0-update/
> Now featuring "Vocal Mode" which affects the timbre of voices, and "Instant Mode" for using auto pitch tuning while editing vocals in real time


Wow! 

The vocal mode: chest, open, soft, clear, airy, nasal... sounds good! Unfortunately is still not available for Solaria.

Also the autopitch tunning now has its own space in the note properties panel, wich is very convenient.


----------



## R. Soul

baggage said:


> New Engine update!
> https://dreamtonics.com/en/synthesizer-v-studio-1-6-0-update/
> Now featuring "Vocal Mode" which affects the timbre of voices, and "Instant Mode" for using auto pitch tuning while editing vocals in real time


Nice. How did you go about updating to 1.60?
There's nothing in my account under 'downloads'.


----------



## Hataori

R. Soul said:


> How did you go about updating to 1.60?


In the SynthV Studio - right panel "License and Updates" - button "Check for Updates" then update.
But if you update a voice bank, you can't go back.

There are already some complaints about it - see here








Something is wrong with 1.6.0 update.


This update suddenly made the voice banks noisy as a whole, and the high-pitched sound processing became quite strange. I don’t know how things got this way, but it’s really bad. The advantage of SynthV before was humanity, but this update seems to have faded that advantage. The emotional...




forum.synthesizerv.com


----------



## R. Soul

Hataori said:


> In the SynthV Studio - right panel "License and Updates" - button "Check for Updates" then update.
> But if you update a voice bank, you can't go back.
> 
> There are already some complaints about it - see here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Something is wrong with 1.6.0 update.
> 
> 
> This update suddenly made the voice banks noisy as a whole, and the high-pitched sound processing became quite strange. I don’t know how things got this way, but it’s really bad. The advantage of SynthV before was humanity, but this update seems to have faded that advantage. The emotional...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forum.synthesizerv.com


Thanks. I'll wait a bit with updating then.
Instant mode seems like a huge time saver. I swear I press 'auto pitch tuning' every 10 sec.


----------



## madfloyd

I listened to the examples posted and don't really hear an issue...?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

I can't hear any difference with 1.6 in the song I made with solaria with 1.5, so I guess it is the voice updates that the other libraries got


----------



## AceAudioHQ

the new instant mode is really nice, it runs the auto pitch tuning whenever you make a change, so you rarely need to touch it anymore and your vocals won't sound like a robot when you write them for the first time


----------



## Hataori

madfloyd said:


> I listened to the examples posted and don't really hear an issue...?


I have updated Saki Ai, tried the new vocal modes and don't hear much difference even between them (except perhaps Chest), Airy, Open, Soft (there's no nasal) sound all breathy. But I think I am deaf so don't rely on me. I especially tried to make some power tone at different heights - no way.


----------



## David Cuny

Per the Dreamtonics website:


> *Vocal Mode*
> Creators can now use the “Vocal Mode” section in the Voice panel to select among or mix a handful of presets such as “chest”, “open”, “soft”, “clear”, thereby customizing out a richer and more versatile sound tailored for their work.
> 
> *Instant Mode*
> Another important addition to the singing editor is the “Instant Mode”. While the Auto Pitch Tuning feature is bringing great naturalness improvement at the merely cost of a single menu command, we further simplified the workflow by letting the editor execute Auto Pitch Tuning as soon as the user modifies any note or lyrics. Behaviors of the pitch generation AI can even be customized for each note, for example increasing/reducing the pitch dynamics only for some selected notes.
> 
> *Voice Updates*
> Due to the varying styles and specifications of the voice databases, the supported Vocal Mode options also vary. The first batch of AI voice databases with Vocal Mode support are Dreamtonics’ original voices and Stardust (by Quadimension). We are working with our licensed partners to bring Vocal Mode feature to more voices in the future.
> 
> Saki AI v119
> Ryo AI v102
> Kevin v102
> Qing Su v105
> MEDIUM5 Stardust v102



In the forum, *fgh946065* is reporting issues with the update:


> This update suddenly made the voice banks noisy as a whole, and the high-pitched sound processing became quite strange. I don’t know how things got this way, but it’s really bad. The advantage of SynthV before was humanity, but this update seems to have faded that advantage. The emotional parameter function is also good, but overall, the performance of AI technology seems to have decreased. I think it would be better to roll back in the last update.



I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet.


----------



## NYC Composer

One mode that would be nice would be “whispery.”


----------



## NekujaK

I have no idea if this will be of any help when working with SynthV (I haven't dipped into it yet), but I'm passing it along in case it might apply.

When my wife gives singing lessons, one of the main things she emphasizes is dipthongs. Dipthongs are sounds that are created by combining two vowel sounds, and are important for good singing technique and pronunciation. So for example, the word "stay" is actually sung with a combination of two vowel sounds: eh + ee

Anyway FWIW, here's the dipthong chart my wife uses with her students, for reference. Perhaps this will be of help in crafting more realistic singing performances in SynthV:


----------



## AceAudioHQ

NekujaK said:


> Anyway FWIW, here's the dipthong chart my wife uses with her students, for reference. Perhaps this will be of help in crafting more realistic singing performances in SynthV:


Synthesizer V uses the ARPABET system


----------



## NekujaK

AceAudioHQ said:


> Synthesizer V uses the ARPABET system


My understanding is that Arpabet is a way of encoding phonemes. Dipthongs are used by real singers in applying vowel sounds to pronounce certain words. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.


----------



## David Cuny

NekujaK said:


> I have no idea if this will be of any help when working with SynthV (I haven't dipped into it yet), but I'm passing it along in case it might apply.
> 
> When my wife gives singing lessons, one of the main things she emphasizes is dipthongs. Dipthongs are sounds that are created by combining two vowel sounds, and are important for good singing technique and pronunciation. So for example, the word "stay" is actually sung with a combination of two dipthongs: eh + ee
> 
> Anyway FWIW, here's the dipthong chart my wife uses with her students, for reference. Perhaps this will be of help in crafting more realistic singing performances in SynthV:


Here's a mapping between the two, although there may be errors that I'll be happy to correct. There are lots of different systems for encoding phonemes:


NekujaK​*Arpabet**Example*ah, awAAb*al*m, b*o*tāAEb*a*tuhAHb*u*ttAOst*o*ryowAWb*ou*tehAXcomm*a*ehAXR[3]lett*er*aiAYb*i*teEHb*e*taeERb*ir*dayEYb*ai*tihIHb*i*tIXros*e*s, rabb*i*teeIYb*ea*towOWb*oa*toyOYb*oy*euUHb*oo*kooUWb*oo*touUX[3]d*u*deeas*ea*louy*our*he*whe*n

Note that some phonemes aren't in the Arpabet. For example, */or/* is an r-colored vowel, but not specified as a unique sound. */he/* is generally thought of as a coarticulated sound, so most phoneme systems I've seen - if they include it - have it as a */wh/* sound, distinct from */w/*.

Similarly, */ea l/* is sometimes given it's own phoneme, */ul/* (or */axl/*).

Being able to build diphthongs in _SynthV_ is really useful, because it gives you control over the length of each portion of the diphthong, which _SynthV_ doesn't give.

Note that the AI voices do a much better job joining together vowel than the Standard voices.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

I’ve always found decyphering English pronounciation hard, since my native Finnish is very literal and always pronounced as it is written, I often have to think a few times how to write certain wovel pronounciations, to me a is a [a], in English it might be ey, eh, oe or something else. Finnish is closer to japanese, and the International phonetic alphabet


----------



## raidergale

Here's a very simple example of vocal modes with Saki AI. Order goes Default -> Soft 150% -> Open 150% -> Airy 150% -> Chest 150%.
Some differences are subtle, others are more noticeable.
Unfortunately these settings can only be applied track-wide (or note groups wide), so there's no fine tuning between individual notes. I guess merging them in a convincing way would be difficult, but maybe in a future update?
Saki AI is the only voicebank I have which supports this new feature, so I don't know what modes Kevin, Ryo, Qingsu and Stardust Infinity have, since they change depending on the voicebank.
I really hope Solaria will eventually be updated to support this


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> Here's a very simple example of vocal modes with Saki AI. Order goes Default -> Soft 150% -> Open 150% -> Airy 150% -> Chest 150%.
> Some differences are subtle, others are more noticeable.
> Unfortunately these settings can only be applied track-wide (or note groups wide), so there's no fine tuning between individual notes. I guess merging them in a convincing way would be difficult, but maybe in a future update?
> Saki AI is the only voicebank I have which supports this new feature, so I don't know what modes Kevin, Ryo, Qingsu and Stardust Infinity have, since they change depending on the voicebank.
> I really hope Solaria will eventually be updated to support this


It sounds really natural. Thank you for sharing this.


----------



## Knute5

David Cuny said:


> I think it's pretty convincing. Here's a track I did with Kevin, with Kevin and Ryo on the backing vocals:
> 
> 
> 
> At 1:40 you can hear the problem with using synth vocal harmonies on bare fourths and fifths.



I rolled the dice and bought Ryo AI, but the phonetics aren't quite working right. Is there a trick to this that I'm missing? Assuming my English text is being interpreted as Japanese somehow.


----------



## Blancanegra

Well well well, could be better but it was so fun and surprising that I just want to share!

Shallow (Lady Gaga)
View attachment Shallow test.mp3


----------



## Anthony

Blancanegra said:


> Well well well, could be better but it was so fun and surprising that I just want to share!
> 
> Shallow (Lady Gaga)
> View attachment Shallow test.mp3


Impressive!


----------



## David Cuny

Knute5 said:


> I rolled the dice and bought Ryo AI, but the phonetics aren't quite working right. Is there a trick to this that I'm missing? Assuming my English text is being interpreted as Japanese somehow.


In the *Voice* panel, you can choose the *Language* from the dropdown:


----------



## Knute5

David Cuny said:


> In the *Voice* panel, you can choose the *Language* from the dropdown:


Thank you!


----------



## RobbertZH

Blancanegra said:


> Well well well, could be better but it was so fun and surprising that I just want to share!
> 
> Shallow (Lady Gaga)
> View attachment Shallow test.mp3


Which voice did you use?

Very nice how the voice (believable) intensifies at the chorus starting at 0:50 !

What parameters did you change to get from the voice timbre at the start of the song to the more intense voice starting at 0:50 ?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

new chinese male voice bank coming next month






默辰 原创《这感觉》 | 中文 AI 男声试唱_哔哩哔哩_bilibili


Dreamtonics 于 2022 年 3 月 25 日发布旗下中文男声 AI 歌声数据库——默辰（Mo Chen），2022 年 4 月 9 日正式发布。默辰这一命名由@善树 在征名活动中提出并当选，为歌手赋予了打破静默，传递心迹的美好愿景。默辰是 Dreamtonics 旗下第一款、同时也是 Synthesizer V 第一款中文男声 AI 歌声数据库，他的歌声沉敛随性，音域设计紧密贴合华, 视频播放量 50840、弹幕量 91、点赞数 2059、投硬币枚数 758、收藏人数 1409、转发人数 1382, 视频作者 Dreamtonics, 作者简介...




www.bilibili.com


----------



## Blancanegra

RobbertZH said:


> Which voice did you use?
> 
> Very nice how the voice (believable) intensifies at the chorus starting at 0:50 !
> 
> What parameters did you change to get from the voice timbre at the start of the song to the more intense voice starting at 0:50 ?


The voicebank is Solaria and the parameters are the same in the whole song, with breathness at -0.37 to get a clean tone. I bought Kevin yesterday so the duet is on the to do list.


----------



## Blancanegra

Well, I got Kevin and I usually like to try the extremes, what you think?

Into the unknow (Panic! At the disco)
View attachment Into the unknow test.mp3


The vocal modes for Kevin are: Belt, clear, soft and solid.

First part: 
Belt 150%
Solid 150%

Second part:
Belt: 50%
Soft: 90%
Solid: 20%


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> Well, I got Kevin and I usually like to try the extremes, what you think?
> 
> Into the unknow (Panic! At the disco)
> View attachment Into the unknow test.mp3
> 
> 
> The vocal modes for Kevin are: Belt, clear, soft and solid.
> 
> First part:
> Belt 150%
> Solid 150%
> 
> Second part:
> Belt: 50%
> Soft: 90%
> Solid: 20%


Very inspiring. I suddenly realize it lends itself well for metalcore, too. Thank you.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

AceAudioHQ said:


> new chinese male voice bank coming next month
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 默辰 原创《这感觉》 | 中文 AI 男声试唱_哔哩哔哩_bilibili
> 
> 
> Dreamtonics 于 2022 年 3 月 25 日发布旗下中文男声 AI 歌声数据库——默辰（Mo Chen），2022 年 4 月 9 日正式发布。默辰这一命名由@善树 在征名活动中提出并当选，为歌手赋予了打破静默，传递心迹的美好愿景。默辰是 Dreamtonics 旗下第一款、同时也是 Synthesizer V 第一款中文男声 AI 歌声数据库，他的歌声沉敛随性，音域设计紧密贴合华, 视频播放量 50840、弹幕量 91、点赞数 2059、投硬币枚数 758、收藏人数 1409、转发人数 1382, 视频作者 Dreamtonics, 作者简介...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bilibili.com


Really nice timbres there....


----------



## RobbertZH

Blancanegra said:


> The voicebank is Solaria and the parameters are the same in the whole song, with breathness at -0.37 to get a clean tone. I bought Kevin yesterday so the duet is on the to do list.


Then I assume that the difference in voice intensity between verse and chorus can be explained by:
a) verse: lower notes, more staccatto
b) chorus: higher notes, all legato

Hearing the many demo songs and covers that are made with solaria since its release, I find it still surprising the sometimes total different vocal timbres / voices that can be coaxed out of it. I start to understand why users find solaria one of the top voice libraries.


----------



## Blancanegra

I'm speechless, the variety that can be achieved with the new vocal modes is amazing, Kevin's low register is very sexy here!

Careless whisper (George Michael)
View attachment Careless whisper test.mp3


Vocal mode adjustments:
Belt: 10%
Soft: 90%


----------



## ReelToLogic

Blancanegra said:


> I'm speechless, the variety that can be achieved with the new vocal modes is amazing, Kevin's low register is very sexy here!
> 
> Careless whisper (George Michael)
> View attachment Careless whisper test.mp3
> 
> 
> Vocal mode adjustments:
> Belt: 10%
> Soft: 90%


Really nice demos of Synth V! Just curious, what did you use to create the backing track for Careless Whisper?


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> I'm speechless, the variety that can be achieved with the new vocal modes is amazing, Kevin's low register is very sexy here!
> 
> Careless whisper (George Michael)
> View attachment Careless whisper test.mp3
> 
> 
> Vocal mode adjustments:
> Belt: 10%
> Soft: 90%


OMG it sounds like it was recorded in 1975 instead of 1984. Brilliant. Thank you.


----------



## Blancanegra

ReelToLogic said:


> Really nice demos of Synth V! Just curious, what did you use to create the backing track for Careless Whisper?


I didn't make the backing track, just searched for it.


----------



## raidergale

An original song contest for Solaria has just started, and with it a Lite version of the voicebank got released. It's a good way to test her before buying, but quality is obviously lower.

https://www.eclipsedsounds.com/solaria-original-contest


----------



## Blancanegra

Blancanegra said:


> I'm speechless, the variety that can be achieved with the new vocal modes is amazing, Kevin's low register is very sexy here!
> 
> Careless whisper (George Michael)
> View attachment Careless whisper test.mp3
> 
> 
> Vocal mode adjustments:
> Belt: 10%
> Soft: 90%


Some adjustments in tuning and tension contrast:

View attachment Careless whisper test.mp3


----------



## Evans

Is there a good post to review (or even a mod to sticky) on how to purchase?

For example, for Solaria and Kevin, is it correct that it would be ideal (for a US customer) to purchase these two?

https://store.dreamtonics.com/product/bundle-editor-vdb (w/Kevin as the add-on)
https://www.eclipsedsounds.com/product-page/solaria-synthesizer-v-ai


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Evans said:


> Is there a good post to review (or even a mod to sticky) on how to purchase?
> 
> For example, for Solaria and Kevin, is it correct that it would be ideal (for a US customer) to purchase these two?
> 
> https://store.dreamtonics.com/product/bundle-editor-vdb (w/Kevin as the add-on)
> https://www.eclipsedsounds.com/product-page/solaria-synthesizer-v-ai


I bought my Synthesizer V Studio Pro from Anicute since they support PayPal but I guess it's all the same if you buy directly from Dreamtonics. Solaria can't be bought anywhere else than from Eclipsed Sounds website, as far as I'm aware.


----------



## David Cuny

There is now a free Lite version of Solaria available:






SOLARIA Lite - Google Drive







drive.google.com





*Terms of Use:*

• SOLARIA Lite may not be used commercially in any way

• In uploaded works using the Lite version, the user must indicate in the upload title or prominently in the description or associated text that they used "SOLARIA Lite"

• Users may not attribute this vocal to any other source other than "SOLARIA Lite" or "Synthesizer V SOLARIA Lite"


----------



## AceAudioHQ

I tried it and compared it to the full version, it is somewhat lower quality like they say but good enough to evaluate it


----------



## David Cuny

AceAudioHQ said:


> I tried it and compared it to the full version, it is somewhat lower quality like they say but good enough to evaluate it


The ReadMe file also includes this additional information:



> The Lite version of SOLARIA is a lower quality, feature-reduced version of her full voice database. If you like what SOLARIA lite has to offer, please consider purchasing the full voice database at the link below.


There's also a contest for using Solaria:









Eclipsed Sounds | SOLARIA Funding Anniversary Song Contest


Results and entry playlists for Synthesizer V SOLARIA's first song contest.




www.eclipsedsounds.com


----------



## ReelToLogic

David Cuny said:


> There's also a contest for using Solaria:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eclipsed Sounds | SOLARIA Funding Anniversary Song Contest
> 
> 
> Results and entry playlists for Synthesizer V SOLARIA's first song contest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eclipsedsounds.com


Interesting contest. If a person creates the best original song using SOLARIA, chances are they don't need to win a copy of SOLARIA.

EDIT: I suppose they could use the free version (very nice of them to offer that) but that might make it harder to win.


----------



## odod

Gonna make a new song with my Solaria now!


----------



## Anthony

Did they do away with the Syllable Break (+) and Legato (-) options in recent Synth V versions (see screenshot of manual below)? I don't see these in the current version (1.6.0).


----------



## madfloyd

Does anyone know if this supports multiple time signatures?


----------



## Anthony

David Cuny said:


> I've made a number of scripts, but the one I use the most automatically assigns curves to the following parameters:
> 
> Loudness
> Tension
> Breathiness
> Gender
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> synth-v-scripts/Expressive 2.lua at main · dcuny/synth-v-scripts
> 
> 
> Scripts for the Synthesizer V program. Contribute to dcuny/synth-v-scripts development by creating an account on GitHub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For each selected note, the script creates a three-point spline - one control point at the start of the note, one near the midpoint, and one at the end. It makes a rough guess what the position and amplitude of the midpoint should be, with default values adjustable in the dialog.
> 
> Editing the *Parameters* is just a matter of using the *Line Tool* to drag the spline's midpoint to a different time or amplitude - or just delete control points to merge curves.
> 
> I find that moving a single control point is a _much _simpler way to edit the parameters, as opposed to having to draw the control points manually.
> 
> Of course, *Pitch* requires a higher degree of detail, so it's not included. And the AI feature does a much better job than my code could.
> 
> The code is nowhere as complex as Hataori's, but my goal is to provide tools that make it easier to create a performance from scratch, not duplicate an existing performance.


Thanks for sharing this script!

I searched the online manual (as well as the menu items in the actual program) but did not find any references to running user-created scripts. How does one go about incorporating them into their workflow?


----------



## David Cuny

Anthony said:


> Did they do away with the Syllable Break (+) and Legato (-) options in recent Synth V versions (see screenshot of manual below)? I don't see these in the current version (1.6.0).


These have not been removed from the latest version.






What aren't you seeing?


----------



## David Cuny

Anthony said:


> Thanks for sharing this script!
> 
> I searched the online manual (as well as the menu items in the actual program) but did not find any references to running user-created scripts. How does one go about incorporating them into their workflow?


The online manual is only for the old deprecated version of the program.

There is no current online manual, so the old manual is still of value, but it's out of date.

Scripts are only available in the Pro version, and are in the *Scripts* menu. If you go to the *Scripts | Open Scripts Folder* you'll be brought to the top level of the *Scripts *folder.

Scripts in Windows are stored in C:\Users\*USERNAME*\Documents\Dreamtonics\Synthesizer V Studio\scripts\Utilities


----------



## Anthony

David Cuny said:


> These have not been removed from the latest version.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What aren't you seeing?


I do not see the "+" and "-" signs (which are clearly visible in your screenshot).

Here's what I see:




Perhaps these are disabled in the free version (which is what I'm using at the moment)?


----------



## David Cuny

madfloyd said:


> Does anyone know if this supports multiple time signatures?


Yes. Right-click in the measure you want to change:






However, there need to be notes in that measure (or a following measure). That's because the measures don't exist until you put notes in them (or the following measure), even though they are visible.


----------



## David Cuny

Anthony said:


> I do not see the "+" and "-" signs (which are clearly visible in your screenshot).
> 
> Here's what I see:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps these are disabled in the free version (which is what I'm using at the moment)?


I think you misunderstand how to edit lyrics. Did you read the manual or watch the tutorial videos?

Double-click a note to enter the "Edit Lyrics" mode:






Type in the lyric. Press *Tab* to go to the next note, and *Ctrl+Tab* to go to the prior note. Press *Enter* to exit the "Edit Lyrics" mode.

Type in the word you want sung. Type a *+* to indicate a syllable from a prior lyric, or a - to indicate a melisma.


----------



## Anthony

David Cuny said:


> I think you misunderstand how to edit lyrics.
> 
> Double-click a note to enter the "Edit Lyrics" mode:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Type in the lyric. Press *Tab* to go to the next note, and *Ctrl+Tab* to go to the prior note. Press *Enter* to exit the "Edit Lyrics" mode.


I'm able to enter lyrics but was expecting the +/- symbols to be there _by default_; that's what I was missing. I now realize that you must enter them instead of a lyric word. Problem solved! Cheers...


----------



## madfloyd

David Cuny said:


> Yes. Right-click in the measure you want to change:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, there need to be notes in that measure (or a following measure). That's because the measures don't exist until you put notes in them (or the following measure), even though they are visible.


Thank you!

After some fiddling around with this and tempo I seem to be in sync again.

I have another question.

If you have a word that contains multiple notes (or pitches) I am under the impression that you must use pitch manipulation rather than cut out a section of a note and raise or lower it - which you could do with EmVoice (if you're familiar with that). However, once I do the pitch work (which so far seems tedious but I'm hoping I'll get faster at it), I can't see a way to associate that data with the notes such that if I want to move the notes in the timeline the pitch data follows it. Grouping doesn't seem to include the pitch data. Am I missing something?


----------



## Hataori

madfloyd said:


> If you have a word that contains multiple notes (or pitches)


That is what the "+" and "-" signs are for - see above David Cuny and his "birthday" example or above user manual example.


----------



## Hataori

madfloyd said:


> I can't see a way to associate that data with the notes


See Edit menu or right click menu on note - "Select Parameters for Notes" command (ctrl + alt + A), then you can move selected notes with selected params.


----------



## madfloyd

Thank you. This is so hard without a manual.

If anyone would happen to know how to make the bottom parameter panel re-appear (I closed it by accident) I would be grateful. I have combed through all the menus and widgets and am at a loss. :(


----------



## Hataori

madfloyd said:


> how to make the bottom parameter panel re-appear


To the right of the Instant Mode button - "hamburger" menu = Add Parameter Panel, you can add more than one.


----------



## madfloyd

THANK YOU!


----------



## tc9000

AceAudioHQ said:


> The first thing to do is to get rid of the completely symmetrical waveforms, which synth v writes by default, the left one sounds very fake, the right one sounds realistic, that alone helps a lot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it's adding the small things that a real singer does when singing, they rarely hit the notes exactly but instead they start higher or lower and tune into it, and also they might exit lower or higher, so instead of the left one, which is boring and unrealistic, try the right one


I'm super behind on this thread - sorry hahah - but I had to say it's fascinating learning how the pitch of a real singer kind of overshoots then corrects - it reminds me of servos self-correcting with negative feedback... makes sense really as that's what the singer's ears do - perceive the delta in the pitch and direct the voice to correct it. What's surprising is how much "error" there is in a human singer's pitch and how much tolerance - indeed - _need _there is for these "errors"!

I didn't plan to learn the fine detail of singer pitch variation, I just wanted to have a convincing virtual singer, but as always using music tech is unexpected and fascinating...


----------



## Blancanegra

Of course need some finetuning here and there but... I just can believe what could be done with Kevin voice!:

Is this love (Whitesnake)
View attachment Is this love test.mp3


This was very big surprise for me, listen the isolated raspy voice in the high part:

Lead voice (comp, EQ, warm tube)
View attachment Is this love high part.mp3


The vocal mode adjustments are:
Belt: 150%
Soft: 50%
Solid: 150%

Tension very high on the chorus, and some loudness.
Gender is 0.15 for a more mature tone.


----------



## Anthony

David Cuny said:


> Yes. Right-click in the measure you want to change:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, there need to be notes in that measure (or a following measure). That's because the measures don't exist until you put notes in them (or the following measure), even though they are visible.


I was just about to purchase the Pro version but after reading this^ (and working on a demo/test project in the Studio Basic version), I decided to stick with Emvoice for the time being.

To be clear, everything about Synthesizer V is vastly better than Emvoice *except* the surprisingly primitive way in which it handles changing tempi. Apparently you have to enter each new tempo manually? In large projects with many changes (esp continuous [as opposed to discrete] changes), this is way too laborious! Worse still, there doesn't seem to be a way to enter a tempo change at a *precise* measure (the way it's done in a DAW); instead you have to mouse-click the timeline and that doesn't seem to follow the snap setting.

What a shame, I was really looking forward to switching to Synthesizer V. Sniff...


----------



## madfloyd

Anthony said:


> To be clear, everything about Synthesizer V is vastly better than Emvoice *except* the surprisingly primitive way in which it handles changing tempi. Apparently you have to enter each new tempo manually? In large projects with many changes (esp continuous [as opposed to discrete] changes), this is way too laborious! Worse still, there doesn't seem to be a way to enter a tempo change at a *precise* measure (the way it's done in a DAW); instead you have to mouse-click the timeline and that doesn't seem to follow the snap setting.
> 
> What a shame, I was really looking forward to switching to Synthesizer V. Sniff...


I agree that the tempo restrictions are scary. EmVoice has an advantage here in that it can simply 'learn' the timing of the song. 

Apart from that though, EmVoice is very far behind.


----------



## Blancanegra

Anthony said:


> I was just about to purchase the Pro version but after reading this^ (and working on a demo/test project in the Studio Basic version), I decided to stick with Emvoice for the time being.
> 
> To be clear, everything about Synthesizer V is vastly better than Emvoice *except* the surprisingly primitive way in which it handles changing tempi. Apparently you have to enter each new tempo manually? In large projects with many changes (esp continuous [as opposed to discrete] changes), this is way too laborious! Worse still, there doesn't seem to be a way to enter a tempo change at a *precise* measure (the way it's done in a DAW); instead you have to mouse-click the timeline and that doesn't seem to follow the snap setting.
> 
> What a shame, I was really looking forward to switching to Synthesizer V. Sniff...


That's true as standalone, but I think that as VST it will follow your project tempo.


----------



## Anthony

Blancanegra said:


> That's true as standalone, but I think that as VST it will follow your project tempo.


Gee, that would be great if true. Can anyone confirm this (fingers crossed)?


----------



## szczaw

Anthony said:


> To be clear, everything about Synthesizer V is vastly better than Emvoice *except* the surprisingly primitive way in which it handles changing tempi.


Synth V has the realism. I find Emvoice to be much easier and faster to use. Just record a melody and copy and paste text. To vary a pitch of a syllable, there's no need to reconnect notes, just add new note(s) above or below.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Blancanegra said:


> Of course need some finetuning here and there but... I just can believe what could be done with Kevin voice!:


Not bad, though I think there's a problem with the voices that they can't really sing loud enough in songs like these, which makes them sound a bit like a karaoke singer


----------



## szczaw

I'd like to have synth V with Emvoice editor.


----------



## madfloyd

szczaw said:


> I'd like to have synth V with Emvoice editor.


The EmVoice editor is very cumbersome to use. I would take Synth V over it any day.


----------



## David Cuny

Anthony said:


> Gee, that would be great if true. Can anyone confirm this (fingers crossed)?


I did a few tests with Reaper. It doesn't appear to handle tempo changes in the host automatically, even though there's a *Synchronize Tempo With Host* option. Perhaps I'm using it wrong?

The comment on the _SynthV_ forum seems to indicate that it will set the _initial_ tempo, but not tempo changes.


----------



## Anthony

David Cuny said:


> I did a few tests with Reaper. It doesn't appear to handle tempo changes in the host automatically, even though there's a *Synchronize Tempo With Host* option. Perhaps I'm using it wrong?
> 
> The comment on the _SynthV_ forum seems to indicate that it will set the _initial_ tempo, but not tempo changes.


Thank you for checking!

Hopefully Dreamtonics will add this feature soon (or correct existing functionality if a bug is preventing it from working properly).

Cheers...


----------



## Blancanegra

Anthony said:


> Thank you for checking!
> 
> Hopefully Dreamtonics will add this feature soon (or correct existing functionality if a bug is preventing it from working properly).
> 
> Cheers...


Oooh, what a pity! I wouldn't worry too much, surely they will include fine tempo adjustment soon. Be alert!


----------



## Blancanegra

AceAudioHQ said:


> Not bad, though I think there's a problem with the voices that they can't really sing loud enough in songs like these, which makes them sound a bit like a karaoke singer


Maybe I went too far! 

The voice is what it is, however with some touches in the interpretation and some dynamic adjustments it would improve a lot, since I have not spent time on it. I've focused on performance and achieving a similar timbre, although there's still a lot to explore with the vocal modes.

Still, I have to pinch my arm to make sure I'm not dreaming what I'm hearing, which is amazing compared to the previous generation of singing synthesis.


----------



## szczaw

madfloyd said:


> The EmVoice editor is very cumbersome to use. I would take Synth V over it any day.


There's nothing quicker and easier than working out a melody in a daw or using an instrument, recording it into Emvoice, copying and pasting text, but to each his own


----------



## odod

madfloyd said:


> The EmVoice editor is very cumbersome to use. I would take Synth V over it any day.


agree ,,, its night and day for me .. Synth V is quite new and still have a long run to evolve with it's capability my workflow is simple, just record a midi using instrumental track and export it to Synth V and voila .. just type and enjoy the process


----------



## mallux

odod said:


> agree ,,, its night and day for me .. Synth V is quite new and still have a long run to evolve with it's capability my workflow is simple, just record a midi using instrumental track and export it to Synth V and voila .. just type and enjoy the process


Second this... the restriction of not being able to fiddle with the backing track while inside Synth V is a positive for me... in the same way that a lot of people bounce stems to audio before mastering... it forces you to concentrate on the job in hand.

On a different note, I've been experimenting with Solaria Lite for a couple of days... getting some ok results, but unsure what the actual difference will be if I buy the full version. Do we have an idea what "lower quality, feature-reduced" actually means? Sounds a bit vague and hand-wavey to me.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

mallux said:


> Do we have an idea what "lower quality, feature-reduced" actually means?


Well the paid version is much cleaner in sound, the quality is clearly better, and it has more expression groups


----------



## mallux

AceAudioHQ said:


> Well the paid version is much cleaner in sound, the quality is clearly better, and it has more expression groups


OK, thanks. Just so I get it straight in my head, is an expression group like multiple sampled dynamic layers (like you'd get in a brass library from pp soft to ff brassy), or more of an articulation that you can select (like staccato vs marcato)?

Would be great if someone with full and lite could render the same file for comparison. I found one comparison on YT but the song chosen doesn't really do justice to either!


----------



## I like music

Blancanegra said:


> Maybe I went too far!
> 
> The voice is what it is, however with some touches in the interpretation and some dynamic adjustments it would improve a lot, since I have not spent time on it. I've focused on performance and achieving a similar timbre, although there's still a lot to explore with the vocal modes.
> 
> Still, I have to pinch my arm to make sure I'm not dreaming what I'm hearing, which is amazing compared to the previous generation of singing synthesis.


It was amazing! Do the voices have the ability to go up and down in "dynamics"?


----------



## Blancanegra

I like music said:


> It was amazing! Do the voices have the ability to go up and down in "dynamics"?


Of course!, have you something in mind I could try to reproduce?


----------



## I like music

Blancanegra said:


> Of course!, have you something in mind I could try to reproduce?


Oh wow that's cool. I had thought that it could only maintain one dynamic eg mf or something, so you couldn't get the same singer to sing quieter in parts and with a bit of oomph in others! I'm sorely tempted. Might get back to you on the offer to reproduce something, thanks so much.


----------



## odod

mallux said:


> Second this... the restriction of not being able to fiddle with the backing track while inside Synth V is a positive for me... in the same way that a lot of people bounce stems to audio before mastering... it forces you to concentrate on the job in hand.
> 
> On a different note, I've been experimenting with Solaria Lite for a couple of days... getting some ok results, but unsure what the actual difference will be if I buy the full version. Do we have an idea what "lower quality, feature-reduced" actually means? Sounds a bit vague and hand-wavey to me.


This is Solaria and Kevin duet on singing "javanese song" .. very awkward but they did it
View attachment MTU.mp4


----------



## Bollen

Blancanegra said:


> Of course!, have you something in mind I could try to reproduce?


Any type of crescendo would do for me...


----------



## Blancanegra

Again, pushing Kevin to the limits. A stronger voice would fit better this song, but the more I listen this the more I like it!

Once the interpretation is done (ornaments, phoneme timing) the autopitch tunning is the most often used tool so it must evolve to offer more control. When you know what you need you can't play the autopitch tuning dice over and over.

Don't stop believing (Journey) 
View attachment Don't stop believing test.mp3


----------



## tc9000

I like music said:


> Oh wow that's cool. I had thought that it could only maintain one dynamic eg mf or something, so you couldn't get the same singer to sing quieter in parts and with a bit of oomph in others! I'm sorely tempted. Might get back to you on the offer to reproduce something, thanks so much.


I'm probably going to get this wrong (happy to be corrected!) but there's a "tension" parameter where you can simulate how singers strain their muscles as they move up in dynamics.... and you can draw this in like a DC wave - so big peaks in tension when you want to simulate belting.


----------



## Blancanegra

Blancanegra said:


> Again, pushing Kevin to the limits. A stronger voice would fit better this song, but the more I listen this the more I like it!
> 
> Once the interpretation is done (ornaments, phoneme timing) the autopitch tunning is the most often used tool so it must evolve to offer more control. When you know what you need you can't play the autopitch tuning dice over and over.
> 
> Don't stop believing (Journey)
> View attachment Don't stop believing test.mp3


I'm sorry I posted an early version!

Here's the last one, with better interpretation and other backing track:

Don't stop believing (Journey)
View attachment Don't stop believing test.mp3


Enjoy!


----------



## I like music

tc9000 said:


> I'm probably going to get this wrong (happy to be corrected!) but there's a "tension" parameter where you can simulate how singers strain their muscles as they move up in dynamics.... and you can draw this in like a DC wave - so big peaks in tension when you want to simulate belting.


Ah I see! Yes, this is exactly what I was looking for. So this thing is really versatile!


----------



## [Alpha]-0mega-

mallux said:


> OK, thanks. Just so I get it straight in my head, is an expression group like multiple sampled dynamic layers (like you'd get in a brass library from pp soft to ff brassy), or more of an articulation that you can select (like staccato vs marcato)?
> 
> Would be great if someone with full and lite could render the same file for comparison. I found one comparison on YT but the song chosen doesn't really do justice to either!


What you're saying is kind of correct. However there are 'Lite' Voices, 'Standard' Voices and 'AI' Voices. Expression groups come into play with Standard voices, but not with AI voices.

*Lite*: Single sample (pitch shifted across your notes), lacks cross-lingual functionality, lacks any of the fancy vocal modes.

For testing and typical robotic 'vocaloid' purposes.

*Standard*: Sampled voice within a certain range, comes with expression groups. (Kind of works like you mentioned, so you can select a different group if you don't like the falsetto sound of some pitches, for example)
Lacks cross-lingual functionality though afaik. And I *think* they lack vocal modes too, but not sure.

These are the original 'sampled' voices. But do not get any of the toys that came with the AI voices. Considered (imho) obsolete, and most of these voices are getting a separate AI version eventually, which needs to be purchased separately. Some people argue these can handle high pitches better than the newer AI voices.

*AI*: AI tuned voice models based on certain sample ranges, does *not* come with expression groups. If you don't like the sound of some pitches, you can tweak the sound with other parameters (tension/vibrato/breathiness/etc.), but you cannot simply swap out samples as it's AI trained. Has cross-lingual functionality (So Chinese AI vocalists can sing in relatively proper English), and supports Vocal modes. These tweak the sound of the vocalist a bit, to give more variety in singing style, but are a bit more like 'blackbox' vocal presets that you can blend, and each AI Voice can come with different Vocal modes.

I think this makes the difference between Lite and AI pretty clear (for this specific voice at least), I hope it's not the one you checked out already lol: 



Blancanegra said:


> I'm sorry I posted an early version!
> 
> Here's the last one, with better interpretation and other backing track:
> 
> View attachment Don't stop believing test.mp3
> 
> 
> Enjoy!


Hot damn. I prefer the other song you posted but this is pretty amazing. Consensus has been that Kevin is a bit meh but he sounds great here.


----------



## Blancanegra

Bollen said:


> Any type of crescendo would do for me...





I like music said:


> Oh wow that's cool. I had thought that it could only maintain one dynamic eg mf or something, so you couldn't get the same singer to sing quieter in parts and with a bit of oomph in others! I'm sorely tempted. Might get back to you on the offer to reproduce something, thanks so much.


Would this help?

What a wonderful world
View attachment Wonderful world exercise.mp3


----------



## Bollen

Blancanegra said:


> Would this help?
> 
> What a wonderful world
> View attachment Wonderful world exercise.mp3


Cool! Any chance of a simple swell? As in Ah going from quietest to loudest and back down again?


----------



## mallux

[Alpha]-0mega- said:


> What you're saying is kind of correct. However there are 'Lite' Voices, 'Standard' Voices and 'AI' Voices.
> 
> *[…]*


Thank you so much for the comprehensive response!

I guess what I’m really interested in the difference between Solaria Lite (which the wiki says is an AI model) and Solaria AI (full). Solaria Lite is clearly light years ahead of that Eleanor Lite example you posted… it’s definitely not a simple robot vocaloid.

I wasn’t 100% ready to post this yet but this is what I’ve got so far with Solaria Lite (I know the timing is off in quite a few places)… the longer notes in the chorus & backing vocals seem ok, it’s the wordier verses that are less convincing… just don’t know if it will be magically “better” in the full version, or if it’s simply dodgy programming on my part that will need fixing anyway.

I should just stop procrastinating and just pay up the $90


----------



## tc9000

Blancanegra said:


> I'm sorry I posted an early version!
> 
> Here's the last one, with better interpretation and other backing track:
> 
> View attachment Don't stop believing test.mp3
> 
> 
> Enjoy!


Can I just say: great track selection - this and the others. I wasn't thinking I really needed Kevin but damnit you keep posting such _classics _HAHAH


----------



## madfloyd

I wonder if someone can help me. I'm trying to get Solaria to sing "tomorrow" in legato form over three notes. For the life of me I don't understand why she doesn't simply change syllables with each note. My last attempt was breaking it up into "to" + "morrow" but she still arbitrarily decides to change syllables in the middle of a note. See below; instead of the last (long) note containing just the "ohhh" it contains the 'aa' plus the 'r' and the 'ow'. 






Any ideas what I might be doing wrong?


----------



## ReelToLogic

madfloyd said:


> I wonder if someone can help me. I'm trying to get Solaria to sing "tomorrow" in legato form over three notes. For the life of me I don't understand why she doesn't simply change syllables with each note. My last attempt was breaking it up into "to" + "morrow" but she still arbitrarily decides to change syllables in the middle of a note. See below; instead of the last (long) note containing just the "ohhh" it contains the 'aa' plus the 'r' and the 'ow'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any ideas what I might be doing wrong?


Try putting the full word in the first note, then putting + signs in the next two notes, with all notes touching. It looks like you have a minus sign.


----------



## Blancanegra

I like music said:


> Oh wow that's cool. I had thought that it could only maintain one dynamic eg mf or something, so you couldn't get the same singer to sing quieter in parts and with a bit of oomph in others! I'm sorely tempted. Might get back to you on the offer to reproduce something, thanks so much.


Also you can create groups for each part of the song (verse, chorus, brigde, etc.) and apply different vocal modes to each of them (belt, soft, clear, solid, nasal, etc.) to change the timbre. Each AI voice has its own vocal modes.


----------



## Blancanegra

madfloyd said:


> For the life of me I don't understand why she doesn't simply change syllables with each note.


Because is possible to do a melisma extending any syllabe along many notes as you want, and that's in your side! 

Use - in notes to extend the previous syllabe.
Use + in notes to sing the next syllabe.


----------



## I like music

Blancanegra said:


> Also you can create groups for each part of the song (verse, chorus, brigde, etc.) and apply different vocal modes to each of them (belt, soft, clear, solid, nasal, etc.) to change the timbre. Each AI voice has its own vocal modes.


Amazing. You're going to cost me money soon... 
Quick q if that's OK... Do you have to preset the modes on different sections or can it blend from one to another? For example a crescendo where you go from soft to belt with a continuous voice?


----------



## Blancanegra

tc9000 said:


> Can I just say: great track selection - this and the others. I wasn't thinking I really needed Kevin but damnit you keep posting such _classics _HAHAH


Aaah, thank you! I just discovered yesterday that adding breathness + belt adds you got some dirty and kind of raspy tone. I have to explore there, drink firewater with Kevin and make him to sing "Unchain my heart" or something like. Any suggestions?


----------



## Blancanegra

I like music said:


> Amazing. You're going to cost me money soon...
> Quick q if that's OK... Do you have to preset the modes on different sections or can it blend from one to another? For example a crescendo where you go from soft to belt with a continuous voice?


At the moment is not possible to blend between different vocal modes, but would be great if you can provide some reference song part to look into how to acheive what are you exactly propossing.


----------



## I like music

Blancanegra said:


> At the moment is not possible to blend between different vocal modes, but would be great if you can provide some reference song part to look into how to acheive what are you exactly propossing.


That's a great question. Because as I try to think of examples I can't come up with any, and in fact it seems like the singer would usually break the phrase to breathe (I'm not sure, as I'm not a singer!) so probably can achieve most things with this... 

Interesting!


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> I'm sorry I posted an early version!
> 
> Here's the last one, with better interpretation and other backing track:
> 
> View attachment Don't stop believing test.mp3
> 
> 
> Enjoy!


With the real recordings they probably use more than one take, at least double tracking. The voice alone here sounds already great though. Thanks for sharing all these examples and doing all that work. They help so much in assessing the library.


----------



## soulofsound

tc9000 said:


> Can I just say: great track selection - this and the others. I wasn't thinking I really needed Kevin but damnit you keep posting such _classics _HAHAH


Me too. I wasn't planning on buying Kevin until i heard all the great examples here.


----------



## Rob

Blancanegra said:


> I'm sorry I posted an early version!
> 
> Here's the last one, with better interpretation and other backing track:
> 
> View attachment Don't stop believing test.mp3
> 
> 
> Enjoy!


wow Blancanegra you're really good! Incredible singing, you've convinced me to buy Kevin


----------



## Blancanegra

Rob said:


> wow Blancanegra you're really good! Incredible singing, you've convinced me to buy Kevin


Thank you Rob, my plan is to release all those test files, so all of you can study them and learn in the process. But first I need to test Kevin a bit more!


----------



## madfloyd

I have found a bug in Synth V Plugin - at least with Studio One.

My tempo starts at 125 and changes to 90 at some point in the song. 

Whenever I reload the song, the tempo inside the plugin is 90 from the start. I cannot change it manually and have to use the Project/Synchronize Tempo With Host function. That changes the starting tempo back (correctly) to 125 but unfortunately erases the change to 90, which I have to manually enter again.

Anyone else notice this?


----------



## Blancanegra

soulofsound said:


> With the real recordings they probably use more than one take, at least double tracking. The voice alone here sounds already great though. Thanks for sharing all these examples and doing all that work. They help so much in assessing the library.


Yeah, I will like to do the double tracking and/or harmonies if I found the time and the desire to do it but, one thing at a time!. I have a growing list of songs test to try!


----------



## I like music

I kept dipping in and out of this thread. But just so that I understand correctly. The voices (Solaria and Kevin) are developed by an external dev. And in order to get those, I would first need to buy Synthesizer V, and then get the voices separately. Correct?

And Synthesizer V is basically a VST where the majority of the work happens within the VST UI itself (e.g. the wordbuilding) but the basic pitchwork happens in the DAW?


----------



## Rob

Blancanegra said:


> Thank you Rob, my plan is to release all those test files, so all of you can study them and learn in the process. But first I need to test Kevin a bit more!


maybe you can help me: I just purchased Kevin, but when I launch the installer it says I have to have the latest version of Synth V. There's no way though I can find how and where to update the software... how did you do it?


----------



## Blancanegra

soulofsound said:


> With the real recordings they probably use more than one take, at least double tracking. The voice alone here sounds already great though. Thanks for sharing all these examples and doing all that work. They help so much in assessing the library.


Yeah, I will like to do the double tracking and/or harmonies if I found the time and the desire to do it but, one thing at a time!. I have a growing list of songs test to try!


Rob said:


> maybe you can help me: I just purchased Kevin, but when I launch the installer it says I have to have the latest version of Synth V. There's no way though I can find how and where to update the software... how did you do it?


In the right side bar, there is a cloud icon where you can check for updates of the editor and voicebanks, and download them from there.


----------



## Rob

Blancanegra said:


> Yeah, I will like to do the double tracking and/or harmonies if I found the time and the desire to do it but, one thing at a time!. I have a growing list of songs test to try!
> 
> In the right side bar, there is a cloud icon where you can check for updates of the editor and voicebanks, and download them from there.


thanks a lot


----------



## madfloyd

I like music said:


> I kept dipping in and out of this thread. But just so that I understand correctly. The voices (Solaria and Kevin) are developed by an external dev. And in order to get those, I would first need to buy Synthesizer V, and then get the voices separately. Correct?
> 
> And Synthesizer V is basically a VST where the majority of the work happens within the VST UI itself (e.g. the wordbuilding) but the basic pitchwork happens in the DAW?


Solaria is developed by an external dev but Kevin was done by the company that made the plugin (at least I think this is correct).

You do the all the work in the VST UI including the pitch.


----------



## I like music

madfloyd said:


> Solaria is developed by an external dev but Kevin was done by the company that made the plugin (at least I think this is correct).
> 
> You do the all the work in the VST UI including the pitch.


Oh yeah! Just spotted Kevin on their site.
Thank you!


----------



## Anthony

madfloyd said:


> I have found a bug in Synth V Plugin - at least with Studio One.
> 
> My tempo starts at 125 and changes to 90 at some point in the song.
> 
> Whenever I reload the song, the tempo inside the plugin is 90 from the start. I cannot change it manually and have to use the Project/Synchronize Tempo With Host function. That changes the starting tempo back (correctly) to 125 but unfortunately erases the change to 90, which I have to manually enter again.
> 
> Anyone else notice this?


There was some discussion earlier in this thread about the inability of Synth V to follow tempo changes:

https://vi-control.net/community/th...-might-want-to-check-this.115973/post-5073926


----------



## Blancanegra

Anthony said:


> There was some discussion earlier in this thread about the inability of Synth V to follow tempo changes:
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/th...-might-want-to-check-this.115973/post-5073926


I'm not sure how the SV VST plugin works but, are you able to insert those tempo changes in the bars of the SV editor?.

You also use it as standalone, add all those tempo changes in the bars of the project and then export to wav. That's my workflow.


----------



## madfloyd

Anthony said:


> There was some discussion earlier in this thread about the inability of Synth V to follow tempo changes:
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/th...-might-want-to-check-this.115973/post-5073926


Yes, I saw that. What I'm reporting is that it *can* handle tempo changes, but when the song is saved/reloaded they are lost. Whether this is specific to Studio One or not I don't know.


----------



## madfloyd

Blancanegra said:


> I'm not sure how the SV VST plugin works but, are you able to insert those tempo changes in the bars of the SV editor?.
> 
> You also use it as standalone, add all those tempo changes in the bars of the project and then export to wav. That's my workflow.


I'm able to insert tempo changes but not edit the default (starting tempo). So if it's wrong you have to sync tempo with host ... and then I can apply all the tempo changes I want... they just won't get saved.

Once I am done with the vocal I will export to wav as you suggest.


----------



## madfloyd

I'd like to verify that the only available manual is the scripting one. Correct?

Anyone know what Instant Mode is/does ?


----------



## Anthony

madfloyd said:


> I'm able to insert tempo changes but not edit the default (starting tempo). So if it's wrong you have to sync tempo with host ... and then I can apply all the tempo changes I want... they just won't get saved.
> 
> Once I am done with the vocal I will export to wav as you suggest.


Hmm. You're not able to double-click the default tempo and change it? That works for me.


----------



## madfloyd

Anthony said:


> Hmm. You're not able to double-click the default tempo and change it? That works for me.


I can. I guess I was always trying to right-click. That's faster then the pull down menu... but I still lose the tempo change later in the song. 

It does retain all my time signature changes though, which is why I think it's a bug.


----------



## Blancanegra

madfloyd said:


> I'd like to verify that the only available manual is the scripting one. Correct?
> 
> Anyone know what Instant Mode is/does ?


Instant mode applies auto pitch tunning while editing notes. Also you can select a note or group of notes and randomize the autopitch tunning in the note properties side panel, until you find something you like.


----------



## Knute5

Blancanegra said:


> I'm speechless, the variety that can be achieved with the new vocal modes is amazing, Kevin's low register is very sexy here!
> 
> Careless whisper (George Michael)
> View attachment Careless whisper test.mp3
> 
> 
> Vocal mode adjustments:
> Belt: 10%
> Soft: 90%


Sometimes VS note transitions have a "cry" in them that I don't know how to control. At 1:04 you got one - did you manipulate anything to get that? George Michael was definitely a "cry" singer. Really nice work.


----------



## madfloyd

Blancanegra said:


> Instant mode applies auto pitch tunning while editing notes. Also you can select a note or group of notes and randomize the autopitch tunning in the note properties side panel, until you find something you like.


Thanks. Is there any reason NOT to have it engaged all the time?


----------



## Blancanegra

Knute5 said:


> Sometimes VS note transitions have a "cry" in them that I don't know how to control. At 1:04 you got one - did you manipulate anything to get that? George Michael was definitely a "cry" singer. Really nice work.


You can do that at the beginning or ends of a note adjusting depth & lengh pitch transition in the note properties panel


----------



## Anthony

madfloyd said:


> Thanks. Is there any reason NOT to have it engaged all the time?


I've tried it but decided to keep it disabled because it produces very artificial sounding pitch motion. I can produce more natural sounding performances by manually adjusting the parameters.


----------



## Anthony

David Cuny said:


> I did a few tests with Reaper. It doesn't appear to handle tempo changes in the host automatically, even though there's a *Synchronize Tempo With Host* option. Perhaps I'm using it wrong?
> 
> The comment on the _SynthV_ forum seems to indicate that it will set the _initial_ tempo, but not tempo changes.





madfloyd said:


> Yes, I saw that. What I'm reporting is that it *can* handle tempo changes, but when the song is saved/reloaded they are lost. Whether this is specific to Studio One or not I don't know.


Okay, thus far it seems that *Synchronize Tempo With Host *does _not_ work in Reaper but does work _partially_ in Studio One (in that tempo changes are initially detected but subsequently lost after saving and reloading the project).

Has anyone tried this in another DAW? Cubase perhaps?


----------



## Blancanegra

Anthony said:


> I've tried it but decided to keep it disabled because it produces very artificial sounding pitch motion. I can produce more natural sounding performances by manually adjusting the parameters.


Really? Obviously it would not sing as you like at first but... have you tried to randomize the interpretaton of the (odd tuned) note/s in the autopitch tunning in the note properties side pannel? You can generate new pitch curves over and over until you find the one you like.

Also would be possible you need to add ornaments, spliting some syllabes in short melismas first to help the voice to reach the target note. That's what singers do all the time!.


----------



## Anthony

Blancanegra said:


> ... have you tried to randomize the interpretaton of the (odd tuned) note/s in the autopitch tunning in the note properties side pannel? You can generate new pitch curves over and over until you find the one you like.


Personally I'd rather apply curves manually rather than repeatedly generate new ones over and over until I find the one I like. NI (natural intelligence) is still better than AI in many respects.  Cheers...


----------



## Blancanegra

I tried "She's gone" from Steelheart in the original key (high note is G5) but when notes are out of tune in the chorus it sounds kinda funny, like in the real thing, haha!

She's gone - original key
View attachment She's gone test.mp3


Better 4 semitones down and some tunning, even it's not strong enough right now:

She's gone - intro

View attachment She's gone intro -4 test.mp3


She's gone - chorus

View attachment She's gone chorus -4 test.mp3


----------



## Blancanegra

Anthony said:


> Personally I'd rather apply curves manually rather than repeatedly generate new ones over and over until I find the one I like. NI (natural intelligence) is still better than AI in many respects.  Cheers...


Something to listen to! can't wait!


----------



## Blancanegra

We got twin voices here!

Please don't go (Double you)
View attachment Please don't go test.mp3


I have to admit that I'm having a lot of fun!


----------



## Tom954

I discovered VI Control and this thread while researching Synth V. The clips you've shared here convinced me to grab the pro version and Solaria. Really impressive results many of you have gotten. I've had good success with getting pitch transitions realistic, mapping tension, breathiness loudness, etc but pronunciation is killing me. Almost all words are significantly off. 
I've tried both the standard and Solaria dictionaries. Relaxed consonants doesn't seem to affect it much. Language is English, which matches the dictionary used. Is there another setting or control I'm missing? 
Is it normal to have to tweak the phenomes for almost every word? I saw in a Youtube tutorial there was a phenome list in the program but it doesn't seem to be there in the latest version. Is there any way to access this?


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> Better 4 semitones down and some tuning, even it's not strong enough right now:
> 
> She's gone - intro


You might consider using the* Tone Shift* parameter. It'll cause the _timbre_ of the note to be processed as if it were sung at a different pitch (up to 400 cents up/down), but sound at the notated pitch.


----------



## Blancanegra

Tom954 said:


> ...but pronunciation is killing me. Almost all words are significantly off.
> I've tried both the standard and Solaria dictionaries. Relaxed consonants doesn't seem to affect it much. Language is English, which matches the dictionary used. Is there another setting or control I'm missing?
> Is it normal to have to tweak the phenomes for almost every word? I saw in a Youtube tutorial there was a phenome list in the program but it doesn't seem to be there in the latest version. Is there any way to access this?


The phonemes chosen to build the words would not be correct in some cases but that's easy to fix, like replacing /iy/ by /ih in the words "me" and "lady" as I did in the "She's gone" chorus demo I posted.

As all phoneme sounds are practically accurate to their counterparts (apart from that you would like a different vowel sound/color in cases), I'm guessing you are having issues with the flow of the phonemes in words, wich needs manual adjustments. Statistically, in rapid passages, short syllables, and the more consonants between vowels, the more you'll need to adjust the phonemes duration.

In some cases you need to make the vowels very short, like in the begining of the song "Don't stop believing" I posted: 🎵 JUST A city giiiirl 🎵

In others the contrary, making the vowel longer and shorting the consonants, like in the high partof the song "Shallow" I posted (wich have a lot of phoneme timing issues).

The best is to work with a reference, wich could be your own voice in case of an original song or your cover interpretation. Maybe you can't sing in tune but your phoneme timing would be decent. Use the reference as guide to compare both waves (yours and the synthesized) in your DAW and adjust the phoneme durations until you get something pleasant.


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> You might consider using the* Tone Shift* parameter. It'll cause the _timbre_ of the note to be processed as if it were sung at a different pitch (up to 400 cents up/down), but sound at the notated pitch.


Thank you David! I considered that option but due to lack of time (as I only have a couple of hours a day, maybe 3 and not always) I was inclined to lower the tone. So much to explore!

If I find the moment I'll post those demo files this weekend.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Anyone have any idea how to use the cross-lingual support and make synth v sing in different languages? If I make a new dictionary, it will set it in a language that is originally supported by the voice bank, usually english, japanese or chinese


----------



## freecham

I just tried Solaria Lite with basic version of Synthetizer V. I can't use Eleonore Forte Lite because it crashes Synthetizer V... Can we import an audio file for background music reference or just a midi file ? I had some timing issues at the end but i find the software impressive especially in such a free version.

Queen - Dear friends

View attachment 0-queen-DearFriends_Orchestral-2.mp3


----------



## Tom954

Blancanegra said:


> I'm guessing you are having issues with the flow of the phonemes in words, wich needs manual adjustments. Statistically, in rapid passages, short syllables, and the more consonants between vowels, the more you'll need to adjust the phonemes duration.


Thanks so much for the detailed reply @Blancanegra, I really appreciate it! 

I think the timing piece could be a big part of the problem. Perhaps a silly question but how do I adjust the duration of a phenome? The manual tells you what you can do but not how to do it.


----------



## Blancanegra

Tom954 said:


> Thanks so much for the detailed reply @Blancanegra, I really appreciate it!
> 
> I think the timing piece could be a big part of the problem. Perhaps a silly question but how do I adjust the duration of a phenome? The manual tells you what you can do but not how to do it.


In the right side of the screen, open the note properties panel, represented with a music notes icon. There is a lot of options, scroll to the bottom to find the phoneme duration and strength options.


----------



## Tom954

Thank you!!! I wish the manual was as useful as this thread. While I'm used to midi roll editing for synths, orchestral libraries and so on, this has a pretty significant learning curve.


----------



## Blancanegra

AceAudioHQ said:


> Anyone have any idea how to use the cross-lingual support and make synth v sing in different languages? If I make a new dictionary, it will set it in a language that is originally supported by the voice bank, usually english, japanese or chinese


Insteresting question! 

I'm tempted to try Kevin in (English accented) Spanish because it's pronounced as it is written like finnish and japanese hiragana aswell, so only a short sillabary is needed instead of a hugue dictionary.

Would be possible to build those taking phonemes from all the supported languages?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

freecham said:


> Can we import an audio file for background music reference or just a midi file ?


Just right click on the empty part of the track area and select add instrumental track


----------



## madfloyd

Tom954 said:


> Thank you!!! I wish the manual was as useful as this thread. While I'm used to midi roll editing for synths, orchestral libraries and so on, this has a pretty significant learning curve.


Is there actually a manual? Where did you find it?


----------



## madfloyd

Blancanegra said:


> In the right side of the screen, open the note properties panel, represented with a music notes icon. There is a lot of options, scroll to the bottom to find the phoneme duration and strength options.


Should we be seeing a change in the pitch curves when adjusting these properties? I don't and it's hard to tell if something is actually changing or not.


----------



## raidergale

madfloyd said:


> Should we be seeing a change in the pitch curves when adjusting these properties? I don't and it's hard to tell if something is actually changing or not.


You will not see a change in pitch when modifying consonants/vowels length, they're separate parameters. What you can do is activate the two buttons I've circled here, if they're not already active, so you get a waveform and phoneme display underneath the notes. That will let you see when a certain phoneme starts or ends


----------



## freecham

A big thank you to all those who gave tips and tricks. There is surely still room for improvement but it is promising!

Queen - Dear friends - version 2

View attachment 0-queen-DearFriends_Orchestral3.mp3


----------



## Trash Panda

Blancanegra said:


> I'm sorry I posted an early version!
> 
> Here's the last one, with better interpretation and other backing track:
> 
> View attachment Don't stop believing test.mp3
> 
> 
> Enjoy!


That's pretty impressive, as is the What a Wonderful World tidbit. For this one is it possible to push the belting value up higher to closer match the timbre of the original or is it maxed out here?


----------



## Blancanegra

madfloyd said:


> Should we be seeing a change in the pitch curves when adjusting these properties? I don't and it's hard to tell if something is actually changing or not.


In phoneme duration/strength you would see changes in the waveform.


----------



## Blancanegra

Trash Panda said:


> That's pretty impressive, as is the What a Wonderful World tidbit. For this one is it possible to push the belting value up higher to closer match the timbre of the original or is it maxed out here?


Belt is at the maximum.


----------



## Trash Panda

Blancanegra said:


> Belt is at the maximum.


Is the tension as well? Just curious what the limits are, especially with a singer like Joe Perry in your example.


----------



## Blancanegra

Bollen said:


> Cool! Any chance of a simple swell? As in Ah going from quietest to loudest and back down again?


Not exactly your request, but that's what I sketched today after lunch in a 30 minutes session with Kevin.

The first time ever I saw your face (Leona Lewis)
View attachment First time ever I saw your face test.mp3


What a beautiful and delicate tone here, and those irregularities along the long notes!


----------



## Blancanegra

Trash Panda said:


> Is the tension as well? Just curious what the limits are, especially with a singer like Joe Perry in your example.


Sorry, tension is at the maximum aswell, but maybe touching here and there could be possible to get something more.

Anyway, listening to these results, future voice bank developers will surely throw voices of all kinds. Also the developer can implement improvements like growl, hoarse & scratchy voice... time will tell, but no doubt that we are at the beginning of something historic in the field of singing synthesis.


----------



## I like music

Anyone ever thought of blending these with traditional choir samples to give their word building some more clarity?


----------



## Anthony

Blancanegra said:


> ... but no doubt that we are at the beginning of something historic in the field of singing synthesis.


Just a few years ago singing synthesis was disappointingly poor. However the examples in this thread demonstrate that _viable_ VI-singing has finally arrived. Well done, Dreamtonics!

As soon as they fix the tempo change issue, I'm upgrading to Pro.


----------



## Tim_Wells

Anthony said:


> Just a few years ago singing synthesis was disappointingly poor. However the examples in this thread demonstrate that _viable_ VI-singing has finally arrived. Well done, Dreamtonics!


No kidding. This thing is a massive leap forward in virtual singing. Stunning, really. 

I wouldn't be surprised if this (or something similar) becomes part of the culture. Kind of like Autotune became known to the general public.


----------



## madfloyd

I'd love to see something more gruff and masculine.


----------



## mallux

madfloyd said:


> I'd love to see something more gruff and masculine.


I'm sure there are websites that cater for that sort of thing.


----------



## mallux

It's an interesting new direction for amateur (I don't like the word "hobbyist") composers though... personally I'd never considered writing a _song_ before, because... well, who would sing it? Certainly not me... I don't know any singers, and would be terrified to ask somebody to sing my clumsy lyrics anyway.


----------



## madfloyd

mallux said:


> It's an interesting new direction for amateur (I don't like the word "hobbyist") composers though... personally I'd never considered writing a _song_ before, because... well, who would sing it? Certainly not me... I don't know any singers, and would be terrified to ask somebody to sing my clumsy lyrics anyway.


That's why I'm excited. I used to write lots of songs with lyrics but since I can't sing very well I moved away from that and just focused on instrumental music. 

I'm looking forward to writing with this tool.


----------



## Blancanegra

madfloyd said:


> I'd love to see something more gruff and masculine.


have you listened to this?


Blancanegra said:


> Of course need some finetuning here and there but... I just can believe what could be done with Kevin voice!:
> 
> Is this love (Whitesnake)
> View attachment Is this love test.mp3
> 
> 
> This was very big surprise for me, listen the isolated raspy voice in the high part:
> 
> Lead voice (comp, EQ, warm tube)
> View attachment Is this love high part.mp3
> 
> 
> The vocal mode adjustments are:
> Belt: 150%
> Soft: 50%
> Solid: 150%
> 
> Tension very high on the chorus, and some loudness.
> Gender is 0.15 for a more mature tone.


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> Not exactly your request, but that's what I sketched today after lunch in a 30 minutes session with Kevin.
> 
> The first time ever I saw your face (Leona Lewis)
> View attachment First time ever I saw your face test.mp3
> 
> 
> What a beautiful and delicate tone here, and those irregularities along the long notes!


Did you get the pitch data with Praat? Or is this the auto-pitch function?


----------



## Trash Panda

Blancanegra said:


> have you listened to this?


While that is another great example of what this tech can do, it is not gruff. There is no distortion/vocal fry that you would get with hard rock singers or old legends like Louis Armstrong. Not your fault, I'm just guessing there isn't a library that delves into that for this yet.


----------



## Blancanegra

Trash Panda said:


> While that is another great example of what this tech can do, it is not gruff. There is no distortion/vocal fry that you would get with hard rock singers or old legends like Louis Armstrong. Not your fault, I'm just guessing there isn't a library that delves into that for this yet.


We have to wait!


----------



## David Cuny

AceAudioHQ said:


> Anyone have any idea how to use the cross-lingual support and make synth v sing in different languages? If I make a new dictionary, it will set it in a language that is originally supported by the voice bank, usually english, japanese or chinese


Yes, choose the language from the *Language* dropdown under *Voice*:






You'll then work in the phoneme set associated with that language:


*Language**Lyrical Notation**Phonetic Notation*EnglishWordsModified ArpabetMandarin ChineseChinese characters (simplified/traditional), PinyinX-SAMPAJapaneseHiragana, Katakana, RomajiRomaji-derived symbols


----------



## Blancanegra

soulofsound said:


> Did you get the pitch data with Praat? Or is this the auto-pitch function?


I have no much spare time so all my test are done with the autopich tunning sorcery, wich works really well, but adding some touches in pitch and vibrato note properties. Of course you need to elaborate the note ornaments first, until you want an untrained singer result.

Also don't expect fancy envelopes in the parameters, the AI does s great job blending the dynamics.


----------



## David Cuny

Trash Panda said:


> While that is another great example of what this tech can do, it is not gruff. There is no distortion/vocal fry that you would get with hard rock singers or old legends like Louis Armstrong. Not your fault, I'm just guessing there isn't a library that delves into that for this yet.


Someone wrote a script for this: https://forum.synthesizerv.com/t/topic/4864

There used to be *Glottal Effects* in the earlier version of _SynthV_, but they were removed, either because the synthesis model changed, or perhaps because they were difficult to use and the results weren't great:



Glottal Effects


----------



## AceAudioHQ

David Cuny said:


> Yes, choose the language from the *Language* dropdown under *Voice*:


I mean if I want to make it sing in languages that is none of those in the dropdown list, just pick one and make a new dictionary, or can I somehow add a new language to that dropdown?


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> Insteresting question!
> 
> I'm tempted to try Kevin in (English accented) Spanish because it's pronounced as it is written like finnish and japanese hiragana aswell, so only a short sillabary is needed instead of a hugue dictionary.
> 
> Would be possible to build those taking phonemes from all the supported languages?


As far as I know, there's no way to mix and match phonemes.

Plus, there are simply a lot of phonemes that are missing in the currently available set, such as trilled */r/* sound. So currently, you'd end up with something that sounds like an American singing poorly in Spanish.

There are phoneme sets like X-SAMPA that are used by _Vocaloid_, and I suspect that in the long run _Synthesizer_ will end up adopting that.


----------



## David Cuny

AceAudioHQ said:


> I mean if I want to make it sing in languages that is none of those in the dropdown list, just pick one and make a new dictionary, or can I somehow add a new language to that dropdown?


No.

First of all, creating a dictionary (that is, a mapping between words and phonemes) is a _huge_ undertaking.

Secondly, as I mentioned in my prior post, you'll be English accented phonemes to create words in other languages. There will be gaps for phonemes that _aren't_ in English, so you'll have to make substitutions.

There's no way to add those "missing" phonemes. They just won't exist.

It's simpler to just write phonetically, but the end result will be that of that language being sung poorly by a native English speaker.

Or if you use cross-lingual synthesis, it'll sound like that language spoken someone with a Chinese or Japanese accent.


----------



## Tom954

madfloyd said:


> Is there actually a manual? Where did you find it?


It is here but it seems out of date and a lot of it is not at all helpful:


Synthesizer V User Manual


----------



## AceAudioHQ

David Cuny said:


> First of all, creating a dictionary (that is, a mapping between words and phonemes) is a _huge_ undertaking.
> 
> Secondly, as I mentioned in my prior post, you'll be English accented phonemes to create words in other languages. There will be gaps for phonemes that _aren't_ in English, so you'll have to make substitutions.
> 
> There's no way to add those "missing" phonemes. They just won't exist.
> 
> It's simpler to just write phonetically, but the end result will be that of that language being sung poorly by a native English speaker.


I’m trying to make it sing in Finnish, which has a very high grapheme to phoneme correspondence, and japanese is pretty high also, so using japanese as a starting point gets me to maybe 90% already, when using English gets me to maybe 20% and is pretty far off and very time consuming to try to get anything even remotely close to Finnish pronounciation. 

I’d just need to make a few changes, mainly that the japanese pronounce u as y and there is no alveolar trilled r (except in some japanese dialects). I found a way to make a trilled r, which is not perfect but better than the one any of the actual supported languages offer, but I guess the way would be to use japanese as a basis and make a Finnish dictionary to expand on it?

One thing I haven’t found a solution yet is that in all languages from the dropdown, synth v usually adds an h to places I don’t need it in, for example ta sounds line tha, pe like phe etc. I can shorten the letters in the pronounciation tab to hide it a bit, but if I need to do that on each word in a song It takes loads of time, instead of if I could just set it somewhere for all letters


----------



## David Cuny

AceAudioHQ said:


> One thing I haven’t found a solution yet is that in all languages from the dropdown, synth v usually adds an h to places I don’t need it in, for example ta sounds line tha, pe like phe etc. I can shorten the letters in the pronounciation tab to hide it a bit, but if I need to do that on each word in a song It takes loads of time, instead of if I could just set it somewhere for all letters


In theory, you could write a script that would go through all the notes, and all the phonemes of the notes, and for particular phonemes change them to some default values.

But... It looks like the coding API has not been updated in a long time. So there's no documentation on what these attributes are or how to access them, assuming that they've been exposed to the scripting portion of the program.


----------



## David Cuny

AceAudioHQ said:


> I’d just need to make a few changes, mainly that the japanese pronounce u as y and there is no alveolar trilled r (except in some japanese dialects). I found a way to make a trilled r, which is not perfect but better than the one any of the actual supported languages offer, but I guess the way would be to use japanese as a basis and make a Finnish dictionary to expand on it?


I'm confused by what you're writing here.

When you choose a language - Chinese, Japanese, or English - _SynthV_ only lets you use the phonemes that are in _that_ language.

That is, if you've set the voice to English, you have *no *access to the Japanese phoneme set.

If you have a Finnish word that needs the English */eh r/* and the Japanese */u/*, there's no way to tell _SynthV_ to pick and choose from different phoneme sets.

A "Dictionary" is just a mapping of a word to a set of phonemes. But that mapping has exactly the same effect as you typing it into the note as phonemes. If you use a phoneme in a dictionary from another language, _SynthV_ will behave the same as it would as if you typed it, and simply ignore it.

So I can't understand how you're going to combine multiple languages together in the way you're describing. Not from within _SynthV_, anyway.


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> As far as I know, there's no way to mix and match phonemes.
> 
> Plus, there are simply a lot of phonemes that are missing in the currently available set, such as trilled */r/* sound. So currently, you'd end up with something that sounds like an American singing poorly in Spanish.
> 
> There are phoneme sets like X-SAMPA that are used by _Vocaloid_, and I suspect that in the long run _Synthesizer_ will end up adopting that.


The trilled /r/ would not be a problem!

Mi carro - improvised flamenco freestyle singing
View attachment mi carro - trilled r.mp3


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> The trilled /r/ would not be a problem!


Yes, and playing with the strength of phonemes would also help move them in the right direction.

The AI versions do a much better job at connecting phonemes together plausibly.


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> Yes, and playing with the strength of phonemes would also help move them in the right direction.
> 
> The AI versions do a much better job at connecting phonemes together plausibly.


Definetively, it does an amazing job, I can't believe it sometimes!.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

David Cuny said:


> If you have a Finnish word that needs the English */eh r/* and the Japanese */u/*, there's no way to tell _SynthV_ to pick and choose from different phoneme sets.





David Cuny said:


> So I can't understand how you're going to combine multiple languages together in the way you're describing. Not from within _SynthV_, anyway


I don’t need to combine several languages, I probably can do most things in the japanese language since it’s close enough already, I can get a trillled r in japanese with adding a d, t, probably also th before r, I just need to find the correct combinations of phonemes that are available to find out if japanese has a finnish sounding u available. 

At the moment I can just write Finnish words in single letters on top of the notes in the piano roll, since the japanese letters are converted to phonemes separately through the dictionary file, so I don’t need to write in arpabet as I would need to in English.

The japanese dictionary is as plaintext in the synth v folder, but I haven’t touched it yet since I wanted to know if I could make a new language in the menu, but I’ll try editing it to see if I can do everything I need just by doing that and make the japanese dropdown language finnish. Unless it needs compiling or something.


----------



## Knute5

Some strangeness. With the new 1.6.0 SV I'm getting some odd drop-outs. Has anyone else encountered this? Here's an example.


----------



## Blancanegra

Not my cup of tea, but rescued this that was done in first place to Eleanor Forte:

Lowlife (Poppy)
View attachment Lowlife test.mp3


Sounds a bit lifeless but Solaria can sing with more enthusiasm. Surely increasing the auto pitch tunning improvisation slider. I'm not a big fan of childish voices either.


----------



## Blancanegra

Knute5 said:


> Some strangeness. With the new 1.6.0 SV I'm getting some odd drop-outs. Has anyone else encountered this? Here's an example.


Anywhere in the menu bar there is an option to execute some performance tests, that would be my first try.


----------



## Trash Panda

Y’all are a bad influence. I was finally free of new shinies to want. So how does one make a Synth V library sing opera style?


----------



## jbuhler

Trash Panda said:


> Y’all are a bad influence. I was finally free of new shinies to want. So how does one make a Synth V library sing opera style?


Yeah, if I wasn’t leaving town for a bit, I’d have already succumb. If nothing else, it seems ridiculously fun.


----------



## dhmusic

Trash Panda said:


> Y’all are a bad influence. I was finally free of new shinies to want. So how does one make a Synth V library sing opera style?


jesus... you're really gonna do my girl Celes like that


----------



## David Cuny

Trash Panda said:


> Y’all are a bad influence. I was finally free of new shinies to want. So how does one make a Synth V library sing opera style?


Not really, but I took a swing at it anyway. 

View attachment CantSingOpera.mp3


I'm using the *Qing Su* voice here, with the trans-lingual feature to sing in English (her native language is Japanese). There's a bit of automation with the *Loudness *parameter on the words _"sing opera"_, and I've played with the phonemes on _"can", "I", "no" _and _"can't"_.

I've also raised the *Loudness* and *Tension*, while lowering the *Breathiness*. The *Gender* parameter is moved in the *Male *direction for a slightly deeper voice. The auto-tuning style has low *Improvisation* and high *Vibrato.

Qing Su* has *Vocal Mode* options including *Chest* and *Power*, so I've set those on high as well. The *Vocal Mode* parameters are only available to updated commercial AI voices, and different voices have different parameters. Those two options are the main reason I picked this voice as a demo.






For comparison, here's the same *Qing Su *voice with default parameters, tuning, and default pronunciation:
View attachment CantSingOpera_Plain.mp3


If I had a clue what an opera singer _actually_ sounded like, I could probably get a bit closer.


----------



## giwro

You people are just horrible for my wallet... 

I have wanted a vocal lib to sing the parts of my choral stuff for years... EWQL choirs of both flavors just didn't cut it - the lyrics never come through... admittedly the choral SOUND is lovely.

This is 2X Kevin and 2X Solaria, no real tweaking of anything (some odd spellings to get the diction I want, but that's it).

It's not perfect, but it's good enough to give a respectable idea of the harmonies, and the lyrics come through. Now, I gotta go to bed, otherwise I'll be up all night tweaking it, and I'll never get up early enough to do taxes.


----------



## Trash Panda

David Cuny said:


> Not really, but I took a swing at it anyway.
> 
> View attachment CantSingOpera.mp3
> 
> 
> I'm using the *Qing Su* voice here, with the trans-lingual feature to sing in English (her native language is Japanese). There's a bit of automation with the *Loudness *parameter on the words _"sing opera"_, and I've played with the phonemes on _"can", "I", "no" _and _"can't"_.
> 
> I've also raised the *Loudness* and *Tension*, while lowering the *Breathiness*. The *Gender* parameter is moved in the *Male *direction for a slightly deeper voice. The auto-tuning style has low *Improvisation* and high *Vibrato.
> 
> Qing Su* has *Vocal Mode* options including *Chest* and *Power*, so I've set those on high as well. The *Vocal Mode* parameters are only available to updated commercial AI voices, and different voices have different parameters. Those two options are the main reason I picked this voice as a demo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For comparison, here's the same *Qing Su *voice with default parameters, tuning, and default pronunciation:
> View attachment CantSingOpera_Plain.mp3
> 
> 
> If I had a clue what an opera singer _actually_ sounded like, I could probably get a bit closer.


This was actually super helpful! Aside from figuring out how to dial in the vibrato properly, the key points seem to be high tension, remove all breathiness, dial in gender towards the male side a bit, set tone shift to -400, and max out any vocal modes related to belting, power or chest voice.

The below could still use a ton of tweaking, but even for a first effort, I think it's a vast improvement over the actual English singer hired for the FFVI Pixel Remaster for the same cue. Not that it was a high bar to clear. 

Final Fantasy VI - Aria di Mezzo Carreterre (backing track is the music-only version of the song from the OST).

Qing Su:
View attachment FF6 - Aria Di Mezzo Carrettere (Qing Su).mp3


Solaria:
View attachment FF6 - Aria Di Mezzo Carrettere (Solaria).mp3


----------



## dhmusic

Trash Panda said:


> This was actually super helpful! Aside from figuring out how to dial in the vibrato properly, the key points seem to be high tension, remove all breathiness, dial in gender towards the male side a bit, set tone shift to -400, and max out any vocal modes related to belting, power or chest voice.
> 
> The below could still use a ton of tweaking, but even for a first effort, I think it's a vast improvement over the actual English singer hired for the FFVI Pixel Remaster for the same cue. Not that it was a high bar to clear.
> 
> Final Fantasy VI - Aria di Mezzo Carreterre (backing track is the music-only version of the song from the OST).
> 
> Solaria:
> View attachment FF6 - Aria Di Mezzo Carrettere (Solaria).mp3
> 
> 
> Qing Su:
> View attachment FF6 - Aria Di Mezzo Carrettere (Qing Su).mp3


sheesh that was alarmingly quick


----------



## Blancanegra

Not sure if the tunning and the pronounciation sounds good enough to your ears, but was entertained and fun to do.

Can't wait for Solaria vocal modes!.

Valerie (Amy Winehouse)
View attachment Valerie test.mp3


As English is not my first tongue, can you help me with those British phonemes for words ending in /r/ like car, water, picture, more, hair, etc?.


----------



## Rob

Blancanegra said:


> Not sure if the tunning and the pronounciation sounds good enough to your ears, but was entertained and fun to do
> Can't wait for Solaria vocal modes!.
> 
> Valerie (Amy Winehouse)
> View attachment Valerie test.mp3
> 
> 
> As English is not my first tongue, can you help me with those British phonemes for words ending in /r/ like car, water, picture, more, hair, etc?.


excellent as all your examples... 
may I ask how would you input the italian rolled "r" in the phoneme box, if your chosen voice has Japanese as its language?


----------



## Blancanegra

mallux said:


> Thank you so much for the comprehensive response!
> 
> I guess what I’m really interested in the difference between Solaria Lite (which the wiki says is an AI model) and Solaria AI (full). Solaria Lite is clearly light years ahead of that Eleanor Lite example you posted… it’s definitely not a simple robot vocaloid.
> 
> I wasn’t 100% ready to post this yet but this is what I’ve got so far with Solaria Lite (I know the timing is off in quite a few places)… the longer notes in the chorus & backing vocals seem ok, it’s the wordier verses that are less convincing… just don’t know if it will be magically “better” in the full version, or if it’s simply dodgy programming on my part that will need fixing anyway.
> 
> I should just stop procrastinating and just pay up the $90


I allways love to listen originals like this!
That same file played with the AI version will have a better timbre and with the automatic pitch tunning she will sing much better, although somewhat listless and boring (like an untrained or apatic singer). To spice up the performance you need a few embellishments here and there. If you are not sure where to add those, have you tried the auto ornament function?


----------



## Blancanegra

Rob said:


> excellent as all your examples...
> may I ask how would you input the italian rolled "r" in the phoneme box, if your chosen voice has Japanese as its language?


Thank you Rob!
Didn't tried the trilled /r/ for japanese yet, I I remember reading user AceAudioHQ (how to mention users?) got something close. Japanese /l/ is close to /dx/ and Spanish /r/ (alveolar flap) will have to try including it in combination with other phonemes.
By the way, would be interesting to code a script to generate crazy phoneme sequences in short notes to find interesting sounds!. Is it possible, David Cuny?


----------



## rogierhofboer

Blancanegra said:


> how to mention users?


Start with @

@Blancanegra 

or 

@AceAudioHQ


----------



## Blancanegra

Trash Panda said:


> Y’all are a bad influence. I was finally free of new shinies to want. So how does one make a Synth V library sing opera style?


You could mimic the interpretation and aproximate the timbre to certain extent but anything else, until they record opera voices, wich would amazing.

Meanwhile you can try this Google Blob Opera experiment: https://artsandculture.google.com/experiment/AAHWrq360NcGbw


----------



## Blancanegra

rogierhofboer said:


> Start with @
> 
> @Blancanegra
> 
> or
> 
> @AceAudioHQ


aaahm I see!, thank you @rogierhofboer


----------



## mallux

Blancanegra said:


> I allways love to listen originals like this!
> That same file played with the AI version will have a better timbre and with the automatic pitch tunning she will sing much better, although somewhat listless and boring (like an untrained or apatic singer). To spice up the performance you need a few embellishments here and there. If you are not sure where to add those, have you tried the auto ornament function?


Thanks, I’ll need to experiment a lot more… honestly I’m not a fan of overly ornamental vocal gymnastics, I was going for a more plain 80s bedroom hairbrush vibe, if that makes sense.


----------



## cedricm

[Alpha]-0mega- said:


> What you're saying is kind of correct. However there are 'Lite' Voices, 'Standard' Voices and 'AI' Voices. Expression groups come into play with Standard voices, but not with AI voices.
> 
> *Lite*: Single sample (pitch shifted across your notes), lacks cross-lingual functionality, lacks any of the fancy vocal modes.
> 
> For testing and typical robotic 'vocaloid' purposes.
> 
> *Standard*: Sampled voice within a certain range, comes with expression groups. (Kind of works like you mentioned, so you can select a different group if you don't like the falsetto sound of some pitches, for example)
> Lacks cross-lingual functionality though afaik. And I *think* they lack vocal modes too, but not sure.
> 
> These are the original 'sampled' voices. But do not get any of the toys that came with the AI voices. Considered (imho) obsolete, and most of these voices are getting a separate AI version eventually, which needs to be purchased separately. Some people argue these can handle high pitches better than the newer AI voices.
> 
> *AI*: AI tuned voice models based on certain sample ranges, does *not* come with expression groups. If you don't like the sound of some pitches, you can tweak the sound with other parameters (tension/vibrato/breathiness/etc.), but you cannot simply swap out samples as it's AI trained. Has cross-lingual functionality (So Chinese AI vocalists can sing in relatively proper English), and supports Vocal modes. These tweak the sound of the vocalist a bit, to give more variety in singing style, but are a bit more like 'blackbox' vocal presets that you can blend, and each AI Voice can come with different Vocal modes.
> 
> I think this makes the difference between Lite and AI pretty clear (for this specific voice at least), I hope it's not the one you checked out already lol:
> 
> 
> Hot damn. I prefer the other song you posted but this is pretty amazing. Consensus has been that Kevin is a bit meh but he sounds great here.



Eleanor AI does not sound very good to me, and quite worse than what you demoed, for example Lady Gaga.
Is this because with the music and voice not being isolated, it's much less audible?
Or do you have a special sauce?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Rob said:


> may I ask how would you input the italian rolled "r" in the phoneme box, if your chosen voice has Japanese as its language?


This is the closest I've gotten to a trilled r, it's not perfect, but might be ok if not too exposed. If we have a word like the last one, piacere, I write p i a t s e t r e above the note, then cut the duration of t and r to half or less since now two letters take place of one, so in the 'tr' the t might be 35% and r 50% in duration. In some words d works better than t, in some words it's hard to get anything to sound good. Maybe someone else has a better solution but this is the one I came up with.

View attachment trill-r_MixDown.mp3


----------



## Blancanegra

cedricm said:


> Eleanor AI does not sound very good to me, and quite worse than what you demoed, for example Lady Gaga.
> Is this because with the music and voice not being isolated, it's much less audible?
> Or do you have a special sauce?


It's not because that! Sure your melody need some ornamentation.


mallux said:


> Thanks, I’ll need to experiment a lot more… honestly I’m not a fan of overly ornamental vocal gymnastics, I was going for a more plain 80s bedroom hairbrush vibe, if that makes sense.


For both of you, what I mean it's not about gymnastics, etc, it's about how a singer reach the target notes even in the simpler melodies.

No ornamentation
View attachment Like a virgin - target notes.mp3



With ornamentation
View attachment Like a virgin - ornamented notes.mp3


Look the melody in both tracks:





That's how a singer sings the melody!.

Select a group of notes or a phrase and go to menu Auto-process/Melody/Ornament selected notes.
Play with the results and adjust the ornaments duration to finally find the proper tunning with the auto pitch tunning.


----------



## Rob

AceAudioHQ said:


> This is the closest I've gotten to a trilled r, it's not perfect, but might be ok if not too exposed. If we have a word like the last one, piacere, I write p i a t s e t r e above the note, then cut the duration of t and r to half or less since now two letters take place of one, so in the 'tr' the t might be 35% and r 50% in duration. In some words d works better than t, in some words it's hard to get anything to sound good. Maybe someone else has a better solution but this is the one I came up with.
> 
> View attachment trill-r_MixDown.mp3


well this is quite good, thank you Ace!


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Rob said:


> well this is quite good, thank you Ace!


Np! Play with the settings, durations and strengths, synth v might behave differently if you divide the syllables or letters of a word to separate notes and move letters from one note to another so if something doesn’t sound right, you can try that and you might come up with something better


----------



## mallux

Blancanegra said:


> It's not because that! Sure your melody need some ornamentation.
> 
> For both of you, what I mean it's not about gymnastics, etc, it's about how a singer reach the target notes even in the simpler melodies.


Yeah, understood, thanks. In subsequent attempts I spent more time fiddling with the pitch transition, timing and drawing in pitch deviation etc. I think it needs to be more exaggerated than you would expect in order to sound realistic.



Blancanegra said:


> Select a group of notes or a phrase and go to menu Auto-process/Melody/Ornament selected notes.
> Play with the results and adjust the ornaments duration to finally find the proper tunning with the auto pitch tunning.


I don't seem to have an Auto-process/Melody/Ornament menu... is this is a pro feature?

Synth V Basic 1.6.0 with Solaria Lite:






Nevertheless, it seems to be adding plenty of ornamentation. Too much, to my ears; it sounds all over the place, like she is being driven off-road in a Land Rover with dodgy suspension


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> As English is not my first tongue, can you help me with those British phonemes for words ending in /r/ like car, water, picture, more, hair, etc?.


To my American ears it sounds fine. 

But here's an attempt to soften the */r/* and sound a bit more British:

Before:

View attachment and_the_water_before.mp3


After:

View attachment and_the_water_after.mp3


So you see below that I've put a schwa */ax/* before the */er/*. I also shortened the duration and strength of the */er/*. I've devoiced the */er/* by drawing a curve in the *Voicing* parameter.

I've also added a */ax/* into the first syllable of "water", and changed "and" from the default */ax n d/* to */ae n d/* (OK, the change to "and" makes it sound _more_ American, sorry ):






One thing I noticed is that there's a very hard attack at the start of some of the phrases, such as on "and". I'll usually fix these in the DAW by drawing volume envelopes around them.

Since it's caused in this instance by aspiration, adjusting the *Voicing* won't do anything. Instead, I've drawn in an envelope in the *Aspiration* parameter to soften the initial attack, but I think it's not as good as if I'd done it in the DAW:






You'll notice that there's a bit of aspiration at the end of "water". I tried eliminating it with the *Loudness *curve, but didn't like the result. That's something I find easier to fix in the DAW.

I usually render the voice out with *Aspiration Output* as a separate file, because I can fix things like that without having to lose any voicing.

Plus, it's useful to be able to send different amounts of the signal (voiced and unvoiced) to the reverb, so plosives (like */p/ *or */t/*) and fricatives (like */f/* and */sh/*) don't hit the reverb as hard. You get the nice lush reverb, but keep the crispness of the consonants.


----------



## David Cuny

mallux said:


> I don't seem to have an Auto-process/Melody/Ornament menu... is this is a pro feature?


I'm not sure.

But did you make sure you selected notes first? The tuning is only applied to the selected notes.


----------



## Denkii

I have no concept of vocaloid and synth V and the like but I find this thread and the software very interesting.

Question: In a video I saw that there is a vocal fry parameter for the voices? Can you actually make these guys sound like modern metal singers with that fry if you put a little compression and distortion on top?
Can someone show me what exactly that parameter does?


----------



## mallux

David Cuny said:


> I'm not sure.
> 
> But did you make sure you selected notes first? The tuning is only applied to the selected notes.


With Instant Mode enabled it seems to do it by default. With instant mode off I can select the notes and a do “Auto Pitch Tuning…” to get the same result. I don’t know what “Recompute pitch for selected notes” does… it doesn’t seem to make any difference.

What I was interested in is whether the melody ornament feature that @Blancanegra mentioned is something different/better than the auto pitch tuning options that I’m seeing.


----------



## David Cuny

Denkii said:


> Question: In a video I saw that there is a vocal fry parameter for the voices? Can you actually make these guys sound like modern metal singers with that fry if you put a little compression and distortion on top?
> Can someone show me what exactly that parameter does?


Do you have a link to the video?

There used to an option for glottal effects, but that was removed long ago and hasn't been added back in.

There's a script that does something like that, though - check earlier in this thread. However, scripts only run in the Pro version.


----------



## Denkii

Sorry I don't know exactly which video that was. If I remember correctly it was a general tutorial that I watched just because I was interested in how it all works and the guy showed the available parameters and that was one of them but he did not use it.

I will try and scrounge the thread for what you mean.


----------



## David Cuny

mallux said:


> What I was interested in is whether the melody ornament feature that @Blancanegra mentioned is something different/better than the auto pitch tuning options that I’m seeing.


The melody ornament is different.

The pitch tuning modifies the underlying pitch of the note - it "humanizes" is, so to speak.

The melody ornament semi-randomly splits the note into smaller notes:






For example, Before:






and After:






Note that the overall duration of the note isn't changed, it's just been split into smaller bits. Since _SynthesizerV_ doesn't know what key your song is in, you're more than likely to have to manually adjust those smaller notes to fit the key of the song.

Of course, it's possible to do the same thing manually. You could also do the same thing by drawing the pitch deviation. There's an option to change from *Direct Pitch Editing* mode and have the pitch line drawn relative to the note (see circled icon, or choose *View | Direct Pitch Editing* from the menu.

You can then draw the pitch curve manually over the note. You also need to select the *Pencil* tool with the icon (the pencil icon to the left of the *Direct Pitch Editing* icon, or choose *View | Pencil Tool* from the menu):






Obviously, you'll have to exit that mode in order to edit the notes again.


----------



## David Cuny

Denkii said:


> Sorry I don't know exactly which video that was. If I remember correctly it was a general tutorial that I watched just because I was interested in how it all works and the guy showed the available parameters and that was one of them but he did not use it.
> 
> I will try and scrounge the thread for what you mean.


The script can be found on the _SynthesizerV_ forum here: https://forum.synthesizerv.com/t/topic/4864


----------



## Casiquire

Blancanegra said:


> Of course need some finetuning here and there but... I just can believe what could be done with Kevin voice!:
> 
> Is this love (Whitesnake)
> View attachment Is this love test.mp3
> 
> 
> This was very big surprise for me, listen the isolated raspy voice in the high part:
> 
> Lead voice (comp, EQ, warm tube)
> View attachment Is this love high part.mp3
> 
> 
> The vocal mode adjustments are:
> Belt: 150%
> Soft: 50%
> Solid: 150%
> 
> Tension very high on the chorus, and some loudness.
> Gender is 0.15 for a more mature tone.


Holy.....

Why does this sound so much better than a lot of what I'm hearing? How much effort did this take?


----------



## dhmusic

Casiquire said:


> Holy.....
> 
> Why does this sound so much better than a lot of what I'm hearing? How much effort did this take?


Stay strong. The order of the Wordbuilders mustn't succumb to such heresy


----------



## mallux

David Cuny said:


> Of course, it's possible to do the same thing manually. You could also do the same thing by drawing the pitch deviation. There's an option to change from *Direct Pitch Editing* mode and have the pitch line drawn relative to the note (see circled icon, or choose *View | Direct Pitch Editing* from the menu.
> 
> You can then draw the pitch curve manually over the note.


Great tip, thanks David! I was finding it difficult drawing these down in the parameter window, miles away from the notes. Are you sure you don’t want to write the new manual?


----------



## cedricm

Blancanegra said:


> It's not because that! Sure your melody need some ornamentation.
> 
> For both of you, what I mean it's not about gymnastics, etc, it's about how a singer reach the target notes even in the simpler melodies.
> 
> No ornamentation
> View attachment Like a virgin - target notes.mp3
> 
> 
> 
> With ornamentation
> View attachment Like a virgin - ornamented notes.mp3
> 
> 
> Look the melody in both tracks:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's how a singer sings the melody!.
> 
> Select a group of notes or a phrase and go to menu Auto-process/Melody/Ornament selected notes.
> Play with the results and adjust the ornaments duration to finally find the proper tunning with the auto pitch tunning.


Thanks a lot for the demo file.
Just downloaded Studio Basic and had a hard time finding how to install the voices.



mallux said:


> Yeah, understood, thanks. In subsequent attempts I spent more time fiddling with the pitch transition, timing and drawing in pitch deviation etc. I think it needs to be more exaggerated than you would expect in order to sound realistic.
> 
> 
> I don't seem to have an Auto-process/Melody/Ornament menu... is this is a pro feature?


I don't see the menu item Auto-process/Melody/Ornament either.
It seems it is a Pro-only feature:
New features v1.40:

Auto-Process: regroup auto pitch tuning related features under “Auto-Process” menu.
Auto-Process: add support for 4th generation pitch models.
Auto-Process: add a customizable version of Auto Pitch Tuning independent of the voice database. (only for Pro edition)
*Auto-Process: add “Ornament Selected Notes” command that automatically splits the notes based on the melody context. (only for Pro edition)*
Voice panel: add “Use relaxed consonants” option for phoneme conversion rules that better suit American English.
Lyrics Processing: new lyrics shorthand that inserts a glottal stop symbol (“cl”) for notes starting with a single quote


----------



## Blancanegra

AceAudioHQ said:


> This is the closest I've gotten to a trilled r, it's not perfect, but might be ok if not too exposed. If we have a word like the last one, piacere, I write p i a t s e t r e above the note, then cut the duration of t and r to half or less since now two letters take place of one, so in the 'tr' the t might be 35% and r 50% in duration. In some words d works better than t, in some words it's hard to get anything to sound good. Maybe someone else has a better solution but this is the one I came up with.
> 
> View attachment trill-r_MixDown.mp3



@Rob that's the rrrrrolling /r/ for japanese languague.

La mia chitaRRa suona rotta
View attachment La mia chitarra suona rotta.mp3


----------



## Blancanegra

mallux said:


> With Instant Mode enabled it seems to do it by default. With instant mode off I can select the notes and a do “Auto Pitch Tuning…” to get the same result. I don’t know what “Recompute pitch for selected notes” does… it doesn’t seem to make any difference.
> 
> What I was interested in is whether the melody ornament feature that @Blancanegra mentioned is something different/better than the auto pitch tuning options that I’m seeing.


Since the instant mode exists I have not felt the need to correct the pitch by drawing, I roll the auto pitch tuning dice until I am satisfied with the result.

Less is more here, get the appoggiaturas or grace notes right and you're mostly done. The intention of the interpretation is reflected and it only remains for the auto tuning to do its job offering nice interpretations of those melodies.


----------



## Trash Panda

If you have the patience to set it up, Synth V can do some pretty decent choral lines.

This is "only" 20 instances of Synth V (SATB x 5) using Precedence for placement and Spaces 2 for putting it into a room.

Duel of the Fates Intro:
View attachment Duel of the Fates (Synth V).mp3


----------



## jbuhler

Trash Panda said:


> If you have the patience to set it up, Synth V can do some pretty decent choral lines.
> 
> This is "only" 20 instances of Synth V (SATB x 5) using Precedence for placement and Spaces 2 for putting it into a room.
> 
> Duel of the Fates Intro:
> View attachment Duel of the Fates (Synth V).mp3


I’ll fall to the dark side soon enough.


----------



## cedricm

Trash Panda said:


> If you have the patience to set it up, Synth V can do some pretty decent choral lines.
> 
> This is "only" 20 instances of Synth V (SATB x 5) using Precedence for placement and Spaces 2 for putting it into a room.


This one? https://www.2caudio.com/products/precedence#_Overview


----------



## Trash Panda

cedricm said:


> This one? https://www.2caudio.com/products/precedence#_Overview


That’s the one. I’m sure Panagement is fine (and it’s free). I use an instance on each voice to place each singer individually.


----------



## soulofsound

giwro said:


> You people are just horrible for my wallet...
> 
> I have wanted a vocal lib to sing the parts of my choral stuff for years... EWQL choirs of both flavors just didn't cut it - the lyrics never come through... admittedly the choral SOUND is lovely.
> 
> This is 2X Kevin and 2X Solaria, no real tweaking of anything (some odd spellings to get the diction I want, but that's it).
> 
> It's not perfect, but it's good enough to give a respectable idea of the harmonies, and the lyrics come through. Now, I gotta go to bed, otherwise I'll be up all night tweaking it, and I'll never get up early enough to do taxes.


wonderful


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Does anyone have trouble with rendering a song with vocals inside the daw with the vst? For me it renders the vocals sometimes but most times the they're missing and I have to bounce them to .wav from inside Synth V, add them on the tracks and disable Synth V, I'm pretty sure it's some setting I'm missing, a wrong mixing rate or something since sometimes it works, usually in the beginning of the project.

Remade a small clip of japanese disco today

View attachment fantasy_a04.mp3


----------



## giwro

Ok...

I've been obsessed with this all day now.... ugh

Here's the whole choral piece, with each section run thru Antares AVOX plugin... do note when using this plugin, it works better if you separate out the sibilants and NOT run them thru the plugin. Also, I used the mixdown from Synthesizer V as a sort of "first chair" for the sections to add some diction clarity back in. There are some interpretation things I'd change (tempo, etc) but I am FREAKING bouncing off the walls, as this (especially in a mix with background accompaniment) is believable enough to be a working demo-maker for my choral stuff..

What a time to be alive...


----------



## David Cuny

AceAudioHQ said:


> Does anyone have trouble with rendering a song with vocals inside the daw with the vst?


I've heard mixed reports on the VSTi.

Working from the standalone version means you can get the Voiced and Aspirated audio as separate tracks.






That alone is enough to convince me to use the standalone version.

YMMV.


----------



## Blancanegra

Casiquire said:


> Holy.....
> 
> Why does this sound so much better than a lot of what I'm hearing? How much effort did this take?


It was one of those that was more easy to do than expected!

*Is this love (Whitesnake)*

Here I'm sharing the svp file but including 2 tracks so you can compare both and study those changes:

The first track is an imported midi that I have previously created in the DAW. Each syllable is a note, and melismas have been included. Then I added the lyrics.
It sounds like an untrained singer and here is where most of new users could feel disappointed with the product:

How it's started
View attachment Is this love - target notes.mp3


The second track is the current edition. The appropriate supports or ornaments have been created in the syllables that support the voice to reach the target note, so that the singing sounds pleasant. This is what singers do all the time, even in the simplest melodies.

Then I adjusted the voice type with the vocal modes until I found a suitable timbre for the song, and also changed the gender to get a more androgynous and mature voice.

Finally, with tension adjustments the dynamics were corrected to achieve stronger or softer syllables as appropriate.

How it's going
View attachment Is this love - ornamented notes.mp3




My first intention was to release all the demos I did together, but I think it may be more useful if I release each demo in this same way as I did with this one, including the 2 tracks. So I'll have to redo the first track of the rest of the demos to serve as study material for you. More coming soon!

The demos are just that, demos that I have been doing to discover what can be done with the product, jumping to another test as soon as I achieved something more than decent. In no case do they represent a final work, since in many of them there is room for improvement in interpretation.

Enjoy!


----------



## Blancanegra

AceAudioHQ said:


> Does anyone have trouble with rendering a song with vocals inside the daw with the vst? For me it renders the vocals sometimes but most times the they're missing and I have to bounce them to .wav from inside Synth V, add them on the tracks and disable Synth V, I'm pretty sure it's some setting I'm missing, a wrong mixing rate or something since sometimes it works, usually in the beginning of the project.
> 
> Remade a small clip of japanese disco today
> 
> View attachment fantasy_a04.mp3


Listening it at home at high volume and it sounds really good!


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Blancanegra said:


> Listening it at home at high volume and it sounds really good!


Heh, thanks, the original is Meiko Nakahara - Fantasy (1982), I only found pretty low quality versions online so I have no idea what the background singers say in the original and there might be some chord mistakes in mine, but I'm quite satisfied with the overall sound, I got a bunch of SSL plugins and my sound improved immediately in many areas.


----------



## raidergale

I tested Solaria on a song that requires a bit more power than usual. I'm not a fan of how the lower parts ended up sounding (I had to boost tension a lot and the sound gets really tinny, but strong low notes are a weakness of most voice synthesizers I've seen), but I do like the chorus, so I decided to post it anyway.



I've used Hataori's RealVoice script as a base, but it did require a lot of editing afterwards.
I also apologize for my mixing, I'm not a professional and I'm sure people here will find a lot of flaws I either didn't notice or didn't know how to fix


----------



## Markrs

raidergale said:


> I tested Solaria on a song that requires a bit more power than usual. I'm not a fan of how the lower parts ended up sounding (I had to boost tension a lot and the sound gets really tinny, but strong low notes are a weakness of most voice synthesizers I've seen), but I do like the chorus, so I decided to post it anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> I've used Hataori's RealVoice script as a base, but it did require a lot of editing afterwards.
> I also apologize for my mixing, I'm not a professional and I'm sure people here will find a lot of flaws I either didn't notice or didn't know how to fix



Amazing aggressive sound to the vocals. It is hard to believe how flexible Solaria is in the vocal styling that can be achieved!


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> I tested Solaria on a song that requires a bit more power than usual. I'm not a fan of how the lower parts ended up sounding (I had to boost tension a lot and the sound gets really tinny, but strong low notes are a weakness of most voice synthesizers I've seen), but I do like the chorus, so I decided to post it anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> I've used Hataori's RealVoice script as a base, but it did require a lot of editing afterwards.
> I also apologize for my mixing, I'm not a professional and I'm sure people here will find a lot of flaws I either didn't notice or didn't know how to fix



Sounds awesome. For the lower parts you can layer more takes and push it totally in front with a lot of saturation. Excellent examples as always, so thank you again!

On a sidenote: anyone seen this?


----------



## Blancanegra

Another great surprise to me (even the tunnig is odd), the deep voice register Kevin naked here:

Can't get enough of your love (Barry White)
View attachment Can't get enough of your love test.mp3


----------



## AceAudioHQ

soulofsound said:


> On a sidenote: anyone seen this?


april fools?


----------



## David Cuny

soulofsound said:


> On a sidenote: anyone seen this?



Looks like an April Fools prank...

Because it is.


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> One thing I noticed is that there's a very hard attack at the start of some of the phrases, such as on "and". I'll usually fix these in the DAW by drawing volume envelopes around them.


Yeah, in the singing jargon that's called a glotal attack.

There are 3 types of vocal attacks: aspirated ( like /hh aa/), glotal, and light attack, the one missing.
(http://www.vocaltechnique.ca/attack.htm#:~:text=An Attack in singing is,co-ordinated or light attack.)

At the same time, I miss the glotal attack for the rest of vowels!

I didn't tried it yet but I'm almost sure that the light or coordinated attack could be acheived adding a plosive to the beggining of the phrase (p,t,d) which can be cut later in the DAW.


----------



## soulofsound

David Cuny said:


> Looks like an April Fools prank...
> 
> Because it is.


Jeez, i'm really gullible these days, it seems.


----------



## Werty

raidergale said:


> I tested Solaria on a song that requires a bit more power than usual. I'm not a fan of how the lower parts ended up sounding (I had to boost tension a lot and the sound gets really tinny, but strong low notes are a weakness of most voice synthesizers I've seen), but I do like the chorus, so I decided to post it anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> I've used Hataori's RealVoice script as a base, but it did require a lot of editing afterwards.
> I also apologize for my mixing, I'm not a professional and I'm sure people here will find a lot of flaws I either didn't notice or didn't know how to fix



so pleasant, this software has a soul!


----------



## RMatute

Blancanegra said:


> Yeah, in the singing jargon that's called a glotal attack.
> 
> There are 3 types of vocal attacks: aspirated ( like /hh aa/), glotal, and light attack, the one missing.
> (http://www.vocaltechnique.ca/attack.htm#:~:text=An Attack in singing is,co-ordinated or light attack.)
> 
> At the same time, I miss the glotal attack for the rest of vowels!
> 
> I didn't tried it yet but I'm almost sure that the light or coordinated attack could be acheived adding a plosive to the beggining of the phrase (p,t,d) which can be cut later in the DAW.


Coming in late to this party... was leaning toward Yamaha Vocaloid, but your demo with Whitesnake's *Is This Love* is excellent and far superior to Vocaloid! 

Can you please provide a link(s) for this software and the appropriate vocal banks? 

I'm Interested in creating a "Soul Chorus" sound from gospel music & motown (Aretha Franklin, etc), Joe Cocker, Leon Russell. This requires mature-sounding female (usually alto) and male tenor voices singing with gospel (black church) vibrato, in English. Are there vocal banks that could do this with this product? Thnx!


----------



## David Cuny

RMatute said:


> Coming in late to this party... was leaning toward Yamaha Vocaloid, but your demo with Whitesnake's *Is This Love* is excellent and far superior to Vocaloid!
> 
> Can you please provide a link(s) for this software and the appropriate vocal banks?
> 
> I'm Interested in creating a "Soul Chorus" sound from gospel music & motown (Aretha Franklin, etc), Joe Cocker, Leon Russell. This requires mature-sounding female (usually alto) and male tenor voices singing with gospel (black church) vibrato, in English. Are there vocal banks that could do this with this product? Thnx!


Hi, RMatute.

It's not clear if _SynthesizerV_ can provide a "mature-sounding female" voice. Most of the voices can be tweaked to some extent. They're mostly youthful, and lack grit.

The Cangqiong voicebank is perhaps the only "mature" voice I've heard, but it's not yet available in an updated AI voice, and it only works in English via cross-synthesis (again, not yet available until the AI update comes out). It's certainly not what I'd think to sing Soul.

Additionally, I wouldn't expect that I could simply enter in notes and get a compelling Soul style out. I'd expect it to need quite a bit of tweaking, as the style generally has a lot of non-notated vocal embellishments.

I'd suggest you go to the ANiCUTE website and download the free version application and voices. You might also want to get the Solaria LITE voice. That should help get a good feel for what the application can currently do.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

RMatute said:


> I'm Interested in creating a "Soul Chorus" sound from gospel music & motown (Aretha Franklin, etc), Joe Cocker, Leon Russell. This requires mature-sounding female (usually alto) and male tenor voices singing with gospel (black church) vibrato, in English. Are there vocal banks that could do this with this product? Thnx!


I don't think there's anything like that, at the moment at least, there's the EastWest Hollywood Backup Singers that has the voice and it has a wordbuilder but it's way worse in pronounciation than synth v, buggy and I do regret ever buying it. But you can get some decent oohs and aahs with it with the sound you're looking for


----------



## RMatute

David Cuny said:


> Hi, RMatute.
> 
> It's not clear if _SynthesizerV_ can provide a "mature-sounding female" voice. Most of the voices can be tweaked to some extent. They're mostly youthful, and lack grit.
> 
> The Cangqiong voicebank is perhaps the only "mature" voice I've heard, but it's not yet available in an updated AI voice, and it only works in English via cross-synthesis (again, not yet available until the AI update comes out). It's certainly not what I'd think to sing Soul.
> 
> Additionally, I wouldn't expect that I could simply enter in notes and get a compelling Soul style out. I'd expect it to need quite a bit of tweaking, as the style generally has a lot of non-notated vocal embellishments.
> 
> I'd suggest you go to the ANiCUTE website and download the application and voices. You might also want to get the Solaria LITE voice.


Hi David. Thank you for your reply. I've taken a look through the past several pages of the thread as well as your links.

This was quite helpful: 
"I've also raised the *Loudness* and *Tension*, while lowering the *Breathiness*. The *Gender* parameter is moved in the *Male *direction for a slightly deeper voice. The auto-tuning style has low *Improvisation* and high *Vibrato.

Qing Su* has *Vocal Mode* options including *Chest* and *Power*, so I've set those on high as well. The *Vocal Mode* parameters are only available to updated commercial AI voices, and different voices have different parameters. Those two options are the main reason I picked this voice as a demo."

I now understand that Blancanegra's *Is This Love* was done with the Dreamtonics Kevin voice. His results appears to provide a basis for hoping a female voice could be tweaked to satisfaction.

Solaria is not from Dreamtonics but might be sufficiently tweakable for background vocals

Could you point me to an instruction manual so I can better understand the tweakable parameters?
My interest in Yamaha Vocaloid was based on my assessment that there were sufficient parameters to get usable background vocals. 
Thnx!


----------



## David Cuny

RMatute said:


> Solaria is not from Dreamtonics but might be sufficiently tweakable for background vocals



Dreamtonics owns the core technology and does all the encoding themselves. 

So to some degree, _all_ voices are produced by Dreamtonics. 

As a rule, the newer the voice is, the more current it's going to be. And Dreamtonics seems to update their voices first, for obvious reasons.



RMatute said:


> Could you point me to an instruction manual so I can better understand the tweakable parameters?
> My interest in Yamaha Vocaloid was based on my assessment that there were sufficient parameters to get usable background vocals.
> Thnx!


I take it you haven't read all the way through the this thread, have you? 

There is the old, outdated online manual, and the newer, outdated video tutorials.

For more information... well, read the thread, watch other videos, search online and play with the program.

By the way, these _aren't_ _Vocaloids_. They're _SynthesizerV_, which is a different technology than _Vocaloid_.


----------



## Rob

So, while I wait for a true Italian voicebank, I keep trying to get an acceptable Italian voice... I mean, one where one can understand the words. I managed to obtain a Kevin who sings pretty intelligibly so here he's singing some pop Puccini.
View attachment Che_Gelida_Manina.mp3


----------



## madfloyd

David Cuny said:


> Dreamtonics owns the core technology and does all the encoding themselves.
> 
> So to some degree, _all_ voices are produced by Dreamtonics.
> 
> As a rule, the newer the voice is, the more current it's going to be. And Dreamtonics seems to update their voices first, for obvious reasons.
> 
> 
> I take it you haven't read all the way through the this thread, have you?
> 
> There is the old, outdated online manual, and the newer, outdated video tutorials.
> 
> For more information... well, read the thread, watch other videos, search online and play with the program.
> 
> By the way, these _aren't_ _Vocaloids_. They're _SynthesizerV_, which is a different technology than _Vocaloid_.


Thank you for providing a link to the manual, outdated or not. The only link I could find on Dreamtronic's website was for the tutorials which were not great.


----------



## Blancanegra

For the first time I got a corrupted project file!
At one point it was not possible to type the lyrics in the notes and I decided to save and close the project but was no longer possible to open it again, crashing the editor.
I was having a good time so it was nice while it lasted.

Foolin' around (F. Mercury, early version)
View attachment Foolin' around test.mp3


If anyone is interested in fixing it, it's attached.


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> If any are interested in fixing it, it's attached.


The *rar* file contains a file 0 bytes in size.


----------



## Blancanegra

Wow, I hadn't even noticed!


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> Wow, I hadn't even noticed!


The file format is *JSON*. So when there are problems, it's possible to look at a corrupt file with an online *JSON* file viewer and attempt to diagnose the issue.

For example, someone posted a file that was crashing when they were inserting a note. It turned out that the last note in the file had a duration that was incorrect - it contained the the note offset instead of the duration.

Since the file is plain text (except for an ending *null*, if I remember), it could be edited with a text editor like Notepad++ and repaired.

That's obviously not possible with a zero-length file.

However, _SynthesizerV_ sometimes has temp files it creates and tries to restore when it sees there was a crash. There's a small possibility that might be there. I _think_ it's found in the same directory as the normal file.


----------



## giwro

So...

I've been enjoying the program, but yesterday when I tried to start it, it began to load, and then just dumped. Nothing worked - not a reinstall, not a "run as admin" Did a reboot. Did a shutdown and restart.... (Win 10, i7, 24gb)

Nada. Zip. Zero.

So, I said "screw it", and installed on the 2017 iMac. Works fine - that's a much newer i7, 64gb. but...
now on 2 different files, I'll get a random dropout.... Change singers, move the file around, no joy.

If I copy the offending phrase into a new file, it seems to work fine. Haven't tried copying in the whole thing...

It's frustrating, because the program was working flawlessly, and now 2 bork-ups on 2 different machines.

Ugh.


----------



## David Cuny

giwro said:


> I've been enjoying the program, but yesterday when I tried to start it, it began to load, and then just dumped. Nothing worked - not a reinstall, not a "run as admin" Did a reboot. Did a shutdown and restart.... (Win 10, i7, 24gb)


You might try checking at the Dreamtonics forum and see if you get a response. I haven't seen any official company responses there in a long time, but perhaps another user has seen something similar.

Unless you've got a failing SSD or something like that, I'm guessing that it's the audio system, only because I'm assuming that everything else in your configuration is stable.

Just guessing, but did you try changing the *Audio* settings in the *Configuration *panel? Make sure the sample rate matches the rate of your system audio.


----------



## giwro

David Cuny said:


> You might try checking at the Dreamtonics forum and see if you get a response. I haven't seen any official company responses there in a long time, but perhaps another user has seen something similar.
> 
> Unless you've got a failing SSD or something like that, I'm guessing that it's the audio system, only because I'm assuming that everything else in your configuration is stable.
> 
> Just guessing, but did you try changing the *Audio* settings in the *Configuration *panel? Make sure the sample rate matches the rate of your system audio.


Odd.

Everything checks out on the audio side. Tried another file, and got a dropout on that, too. 
If you have a moment, could you test a file? Dropout occurs in measure 9/10 on the word "another" in the soprano (solaria) voice. Drops out even if I have Eleanor sing it. I'd just like to verify that I don't have a corrupt file...


----------



## giwro

giwro said:


> Odd.
> 
> Everything checks out on the audio side. Tried another file, and got a dropout on that, too.
> If you have a moment, could you test a file? Dropout occurs in measure 9/10 on the word "another" in the soprano (solaria) voice. Drops out even if I have Eleanor sing it. I'd just like to verify that I don't have a corrupt file...


Hmm.

Now I find that I can run the VST in Studio one, but not the standalone on Win10. That will work...

And, when I open the file with the dropout in the VST, it is fine. So… I suspect there’s something odd going on with the Mac. I’ll try it out in Logic at some point and see what that does.

Back to doing taxes…


----------



## David Cuny

giwro said:


> Odd.
> 
> Everything checks out on the audio side. Tried another file, and got a dropout on that, too.
> If you have a moment, could you test a file? Dropout occurs in measure 9/10 on the word "another" in the soprano (solaria) voice. Drops out even if I have Eleanor sing it. I'd just like to verify that I don't have a corrupt file...


The file loads file for me. Here's what I see once it finishes rendering - no visible dropouts, and it sounds fine:






Or are you talking about rendering to a file? But I don't hear any dropout in the rendered file, either.

As a check, I opened the file in Notepad++, and pasted the text into the *Text* tab in an online JSON viewer. In the *Viewer* tab, here's what I see for the *Sop* voice at note #20, which doesn't look wrong to me:






There's a space after *"nother "*, and it's different than the *"another" "+" "+"* that follows:






It _shouldn't_ make any difference, but you might try removing the space, or changing it so it's like the following lyric, and see what happens.

Obviously, _something_ is causing problems, even though the file is rendering fine on my computer. 

That makes me suspect it's something other than the file.

For example, I believe the _general_ configuration settings are stored elsewhere. So if that's what's broken, I won't see the same problem as you. Which would made sense, because I've got different audio settings than you, so you wouldn't expect that to be part of the file.


----------



## Blancanegra

Rob said:


> So, while I wait for a true Italian voicebank, I keep trying to get an acceptable Italian voice... I mean, one where one can understand the words. I managed to obtain a Kevin who sings pretty intelligibly so here he's singing some pop Puccini.
> View attachment Che_Gelida_Manina.mp3


Great Job Rob! I guess your next step is to work on dinamics contrast, isn't it?
What are the values for belt and solid? I would try with even higher values for those.

Then I would work on the dynamics in the tension parameter (carefully as it is very sensitive to small changes near the line) to make the voice softer in certain passages, but increasing the tension to the maximum in the upper part (compensate perceived volume with loudness if necessary).

The key here is to get the high and powerful part (Chi son, chi son) to sound right, and then correct the rest with the other parameters.

Will be great to hear the progress you make on this!


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> That's obviously not possible with a zero-length file.
> 
> However, _SynthesizerV_ sometimes has temp files it creates and tries to restore when it sees there was a crash. There's a small possibility that might be there. I _think_ it's found in the same directory as the normal file.


It found some temp files to recover but old in time.

I think what happened was that the hard drive ran out of space due to the latest windows update download as I was getting some prompts about that. The last few days I have generated too many gigabytes of audio for such a small system drive. I have learned my lesson and will now store everything on the secondary drive, which has plenty of space. I don't know why I didn't do it from the beginning! 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Rob

Blancanegra said:


> Great Job Rob! I guess your next step is to work on dinamics contrast, isn't it?
> What are the values for belt and solid? I would try with even higher values for those.
> 
> Then I would work on the dynamics in the tension parameter (carefully as it is very sensitive to small changes near the line) to make the voice softer in certain passages, but increasing the tension to the maximum in the upper part (compensate perceived volume with loudness if necessary).
> 
> The key here is to get the high and powerful part (Chi son, chi son) to sound right, and then correct the rest with the other parameters.
> 
> Will be great to hear the progress you make on this!


Thank you Blancanegra, that’s exactly what I’m going to do. The real treat would be to be able to assign parameters, like Tension, to cc, as drawing lines in the editor isn’t too comfortable... maybe in a future update


----------



## giwro

David Cuny said:


> The file loads file for me. Here's what I see once it finishes rendering - no visible dropouts, and it sounds fine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or are you talking about rendering to a file? But I don't hear any dropout in the rendered file, either.
> 
> As a check, I opened the file in Notepad++, and pasted the text into the *Text* tab in an online JSON viewer. In the *Viewer* tab, here's what I see for the *Sop* voice at note #20, which doesn't look wrong to me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a space after *"nother "*, and it's different than the *"another" "+" "+"* that follows:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It _shouldn't_ make any difference, but you might try removing the space, or changing it so it's like the following lyric, and see what happens.
> 
> Obviously, _something_ is causing problems, even though the file is rendering fine on my computer.
> 
> That makes me suspect it's something other than the file.
> 
> For example, I believe the _general_ configuration settings are stored elsewhere. So if that's what's broken, I won't see the same problem as you. Which would made sense, because I've got different audio settings than you, so you wouldn't expect that to be part of the file.


Thanks so much…

So, it’s probably the Mac that has something going on - as long as I can render on the PC (now that I found the VST3 will work, even if the standalone isn’t) I can manage. I will try the plug-in version on the Mac, too, just to rule out stuff. FWIW, the rendered file was screwed up on the Mac, too.

I do troubleshooting all the time at my real job - I do AV tech for a large church, and live in the world of live sound and video… it’s always a matter of narrowing things down and ruling out.

All things considered, I’m pleased with SynV - I’ve not really tweaked much of anything except some volume and tempo, and already I’m impressed by how good it is. I do need to get past the next couple of weeks, then I can really settle in and have some fun with it.


----------



## David Cuny

Rob said:


> The real treat would be to be able to assign parameters, like Tension, to cc, as drawing lines in the editor isn’t too comfortable... maybe in a future update


Although the default is to use the pencil and add a bunch of control points to the , you _can_ just insert single control points into the *Parameter* timeline and drag them around. There's also a toggle that controls if the *Parameter* timeline points work as linear control points or spline knots.

I find it simpler to move a single control point per note instead of manually drawing the curve for all the points. So I wrote a script some time back - it's missing some parameters that have since been added - that inserts control points at the start, midpoint, and end of notes. Running the script will automatically add control points for *Loudness*, *Tension*, *Gender* and *Breathiness* for the selected notes.

There's a dialog that lets you set the default values, and the amount of randomness to apply. It also makes a guess at what the midpoint control value should be, based on if the note has a rest preceding or following it.









synth-v-scripts/Expressive 2.lua at main · dcuny/synth-v-scripts


Scripts for the Synthesizer V program. Contribute to dcuny/synth-v-scripts development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com


----------



## Rob

David Cuny said:


> Although the default is to use the pencil and add a bunch of control points to the , you _can_ just insert single control points into the *Parameter* timeline and drag them around. There's also a toggle that controls if the *Parameter* timeline points work as linear control points or spline knots.
> 
> I find it simpler to move a single control point per note instead of manually drawing the curve for all the points. So I wrote a script some time back - it's missing some parameters that have since been added - that inserts control points at the start, midpoint, and end of notes. Running the script will automatically add control points for *Loudness*, *Tension*, *Gender* and *Breathiness* for the selected notes.
> 
> There's a dialog that lets you set the default values, and the amount of randomness to apply. It also makes a guess at what the midpoint control value should be, based on if the note has a rest preceding or following it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> synth-v-scripts/Expressive 2.lua at main · dcuny/synth-v-scripts
> 
> 
> Scripts for the Synthesizer V program. Contribute to dcuny/synth-v-scripts development by creating an account on GitHub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com


thanks David for educating me...


----------



## Blancanegra

Believe it or not, it's Kevin!

View attachment Believe it or not test.mp3


But what f* fun is this? 

Attached is the project file including tracks with the original lyrics and sketched double voice. Enjoy!


----------



## Vlzmusic

Rob said:


> So, while I wait for a true Italian voicebank, I keep trying to get an acceptable Italian voice... I mean, one where one can understand the words. I managed to obtain a Kevin who sings pretty intelligibly so here he's singing some pop Puccini.
> View attachment Che_Gelida_Manina.mp3


I thought it was straight from Mike Bolton opera disc


----------



## freecham

Finally, i bought the full Solaria and the pro version of Synthetizer V. The melody ornement is a great tool and give more life and emotion to the voice (even if you can do this thing manually). Here the two versions of my tests. The first is with Synthetizer V Basic + Solaria Lite and the second with the Pro version and Solaria full.

Synthetizer V basic + Solaria Lite (Queen - Dear friends)

View attachment 0-queen-DearFriends_Orchestral3_SL.mp3


Synthetizer V Pro + Solaria (Queen - Dear friends)

View attachment 0-queen-DearFriends_Orchestral3_SP.mp3


----------



## cedricm

Does it make sense to purchase Solaria alone or do you need the Synth V Pro to take advantage of the paid voices?


----------



## freecham

cedricm said:


> Does it make sense to purchase Solaria alone or do you need the Synth V Pro to take advantage of the paid voices?


Solaria alone with the basic version is very good and you can use it without problems. The additional functions of the pro version allow to go further but I don't master all the subtleties yet. More experienced users will give you a better opinion. I would still say that it is worth getting the pro version (maybe later).


----------



## mallux

freecham said:


> Finally, i bought the full Solaria and the pro version of Synthetizer V. The melody ornement is a great tool and give more life and emotion to the voice (even if you can do this thing manually). Here the two versions of my tests. The first is with Synthetizer V Basic + Solaria Lite and the second with the Pro version and Solaria full.
> 
> Synthetizer V basic + Solaria Lite (Queen - Dear friends)
> 
> View attachment 0-queen-DearFriends_Orchestral3_SL.mp3
> 
> 
> Synthetizer V Pro + Solaria (Queen - Dear friends)
> 
> View attachment 0-queen-DearFriends_Orchestral3_SP.mp3


Aha... finally, this is the comparison I've been waiting for, thank you.

So, it seems Solaria sounds just as "nervous" in full/pro as in lite/basic. I was hoping there would be some way to turn down the jittery AI pitch deviations to a more subtle level :-/


----------



## freecham

mallux said:


> Aha... finally, this is the comparison I've been waiting for, thank you.
> 
> So, it seems Solaria sounds just as "nervous" in full/pro as in lite/basic. I was hoping there would be some way to turn down the jittery AI pitch deviations to a more subtle level :-/


I think it can be made less "nervous" but you have to work more precisely on the pitch curve (which I didn't necessarily do). The control is total but not always easy to implement.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

cedricm said:


> Does it make sense to purchase Solaria alone or do you need the Synth V Pro to take advantage of the paid voices?


I did most of my earlier stuff with the free version, It sounded so good that I bought the Pro only to be able to release music commercially, it does have more features but I would have been happy just with the basic If I was allowed commercial use


----------



## Trash Panda

mallux said:


> Aha... finally, this is the comparison I've been waiting for, thank you.
> 
> So, it seems Solaria sounds just as "nervous" in full/pro as in lite/basic. I was hoping there would be some way to turn down the jittery AI pitch deviations to a more subtle level :-/


You can certainly turn down the jittery AI pitch deviations down further.


----------



## cedricm

AceAudioHQ said:


> I did most of my earlier stuff with the free version, It sounded so good that I bought the Pro only to be able to release music commercially, it does have more features but I would have been happy just with the basic If I was allowed commercial use


Do you know whether publishing on YouTube or Soundcloud with no monetization is deemed a commercial use?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

cedricm said:


> Do you know whether publishing on YouTube or Soundcloud with no monetization is deemed a commercial use?


Commercial use is *any reproduction or purpose that is marketed, promoted, or sold and incorporates a financial transaction*.


----------



## Knute5

giwro said:


> So...
> 
> I've been enjoying the program, but yesterday when I tried to start it, it began to load, and then just dumped. Nothing worked - not a reinstall, not a "run as admin" Did a reboot. Did a shutdown and restart.... (Win 10, i7, 24gb)
> 
> Nada. Zip. Zero.
> 
> So, I said "screw it", and installed on the 2017 iMac. Works fine - that's a much newer i7, 64gb. but...
> now on 2 different files, I'll get a random dropout.... Change singers, move the file around, no joy.
> 
> If I copy the offending phrase into a new file, it seems to work fine. Haven't tried copying in the whole thing...
> 
> It's frustrating, because the program was working flawlessly, and now 2 bork-ups on 2 different machines.
> 
> Ugh.


I had/have the same issue with random dropouts that can't be fixed. Also, changing the sample rate linearly impacts the pitch, going lower the higher the sample rate. I don't recall that happening before. Makes me feel like a 1.6.1 bug fix release is due out. I was eager to try the new features but am regretting jumping on the latest release.

Drop out example - Kevin (Ryo does same thing)


----------



## David Cuny

Please post _SynthesizerV_ issues to the _SynthesizerV_ Forum - Product Feedback Section. Dreamtonics is a very small company and doesn't appear to even post to their own forums. But they _do_ seem to read them, especially since bug fixes come out of nowhere.


----------



## tc9000

Blancanegra said:


> It's not because that! Sure your melody need some ornamentation.
> 
> For both of you, what I mean it's not about gymnastics, etc, it's about how a singer reach the target notes even in the simpler melodies.
> 
> No ornamentation
> View attachment Like a virgin - target notes.mp3
> 
> 
> 
> With ornamentation
> View attachment Like a virgin - ornamented notes.mp3
> 
> 
> Look the melody in both tracks:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's how a singer sings the melody!.
> 
> Select a group of notes or a phrase and go to menu Auto-process/Melody/Ornament selected notes.
> Play with the results and adjust the ornaments duration to finally find the proper tunning with the auto pitch tunning.


this is _gold_ - incredibly generous of you to share - i learned a lot by just looking at the difference between the 'Target notes' track and the 'Ornaments' track in that screenshot. thankyou!


----------



## giwro

The saga continues - and it's getting better!

So... I decided to do another experiment. I love EW Hollywood choirs - the vowels are beautiful and pure, but the diction is crap. I waste hours and hours trying to get the pronunciation to my liking, and it is an exercise in frustration. Plus, it is obviously fake....

Enter Synthesizer V...

- I did a quick EWHC clip with the wordbuilder, rendered that to WAV
- imported into SynV
- lined up Eleanor and Solaria singing the lyrics in sync with the track
- exported stems from SynV
- imported it all into Studio 1 V
- added some reverb to the SynV tracks to match the EWHQ reverb
- tweaked the balance until I was satisfied.

I think it is a great proof of concept - Eleanor and Solaria act as section leaders, and provide the diction.. its the first time I've thought EWHQ was close to believable (without hours of fussing with the wordbuilder....)

It still took a good 2 hours, but a lot of that was figuring out what I wanted to do.

I think this is going to be dangerous fun.....


----------



## Trash Panda

giwro said:


> The saga continues - and it's getting better!
> 
> So... I decided to do another experiment. I love EW Hollywood choirs - the vowels are beautiful and pure, but the diction is crap. I waste hours and hours trying to get the pronunciation to my liking, and it is an exercise in frustration. Plus, it is obviously fake....
> 
> Enter Synthesizer V...
> 
> - I did a quick EWHC clip with the wordbuilder, rendered that to WAV
> - imported into SynV
> - lined up Eleanor and Solaria singing the lyrics in sync with the track
> - exported stems from SynV
> - imported it all into Studio 1 V
> - added some reverb to the SynV tracks to match the EWHQ reverb
> - tweaked the balance until I was satisfied.
> 
> I think it is a great proof of concept - Eleanor and Solaria act as section leaders, and provide the diction.. its the first time I've thought EWHQ was close to believable (without hours of fussing with the wordbuilder....)
> 
> It still took a good 2 hours, but a lot of that was figuring out what I wanted to do.
> 
> I think this is going to be dangerous fun.....


Great idea! Probably easier than stacking up 20+ instances of SynthV tracks.


----------



## Blancanegra

Knute5 said:


> I had/have the same issue with random dropouts that can't be fixed. Also, changing the sample rate linearly impacts the pitch, going lower the higher the sample rate. I don't recall that happening before. Makes me feel like a 1.6.1 bug fix release is due out. I was eager to try the new features but am regretting jumping on the latest release.
> 
> Drop out example - Kevin (Ryo does same thing)


Synthesizer V Studio 1.6.1 (Apr 7, 2021)​
*Bug fixes*

Auto-Process: crashes when loading a standard voice database without auto pitch tuning support under Instant Mode (Basic edition only).

Synthesizer V Engine: random audio glitches when using AI voices on Intel Macs.

File: Instant Mode cannot be turned off by default when importing MIDI files.

File: audio files imported by drag-and-drop are not indexed by relative paths.

Plugin: broken IME support in the Windows VSTi version.









Synthesizer V Studio 1.6.1 Update | Dreamtonics株式会社


Synthesizer V Studio 1.6.1 update has been released. This update includes various fixes for crashes and compatibility issues. To install the update, please visit the "License and Updates" pa




dreamtonics.com


----------



## odod

Synthesizer V Engine: random audio glitches when using AI voices on Intel Macs. <-- finally this one .. But the open recent files still broken here


----------



## Blancanegra

odod said:


> Synthesizer V Engine: random audio glitches when using AI voices on Intel Macs. <-- finally this one .. But the open recent files still broken here


Just an idea... have you tried to delete the notes where the glitches occur and create the notes again? maybe that solve the problem.


----------



## raidergale

Just a quick test with Solaria and Hataori's script. Song is Genie in a Bottle by Christina Aguilera, but the Postmodern Jukebox cover version. Volume is a bit all over the place since it's a test and I don't think I'll finish it right now.

View attachment GeniePMJTest.mp3


Hataori's script is really good to study how real singers change their pitch in a song. It's not perfect and it needs editing unless you have a perfectly clean acapella, but anything it does could theoretically be done in SynthV without any script at all, since it's "just" pitch curve editing, so it's a great learning experience.


----------



## jblongz

I’m interested in the plugin, but the webpage manager needs to fill in the info:

- no file size information for individual voice packs.
- missing demos for voices in the catalog.

I know its a work in progress. I’m just waiting for them to catch up.


----------



## Blancanegra

Days ago I posted a test I did with Kevin singing "Careless whisper". It was a pleasant surprise to discover that is possible achieve that soft and sexy voice tone.

*Today I share the vsp file with 3 tracks:

1- Target notes* from imported midi, one note per syllabe (more or less). Sounds like an untrained singer, hitting the notes like a piano will do.

*2- Ornamented melody*, adding supports to help the voice to reach the notes. That's how singers do their job. I also adjusted the vocal modes to achieve a similar type of voice as the original song. This track was the one I posted days ago.

*3- Ongoing project*. The chorus in track 2 sounded somewhat weak and without punch as it needed support on some notes, wich is fixed here. I added dynamic contrast with tension and made some adjustments to the vocal modes. That took me 20 minutes.


How it's started
View attachment Careless whisper - target notes.mp3


How it's going
View attachment Careless whisper - ornamented notes.mp3


In a mix
View attachment Careless whisper test 2.mp3


Enjoy!


----------



## David Cuny

raidergale said:


> Just a quick test with Solaria and Hataori's script. Song is Genie in a Bottle by Christina Aguilera, but the Postmodern Jukebox cover version. Volume is a bit all over the place since it's a test and I don't think I'll finish it right now.


I _love _the vocal fry - is that purely a vocal pitch effect?

I'd assumed it would have to be done by some sort of glottal effect, but I'm completely sold on what you've got here.


----------



## Anthony

mallux said:


> So, it seems Solaria sounds just as "nervous" in full/pro as in lite/basic. I was hoping there would be some way to turn down the jittery AI pitch deviations to a more subtle level :-/


Try this: 1) turn off Instant Mode, 2) go to the Parameters pane and select/show the Pitch Deviation curve, 3) select all points and delete them. Does that sound better (i.e. less nervous)?


----------



## raidergale

David Cuny said:


> I _love _the vocal fry - is that purely a vocal pitch effect?
> 
> I'd assumed it would have to be done by some sort of glottal effect, but I'm completely sold on what you've got here.


Yeah, vocal fry is obtained with glottal stops, Solaria is programmed in a way that will often add vocal fry to vowels preceded by glottal stops, probably because the original voice provider does so too.
For example, the lyrics in the "whoa" parts are "whoa 'oh 'oh 'oh". If you input a word with an apostrophe beforehand it'll add a "cl" glottal stop before it, and as I said Solaria will often add a vocal fry like this. Unfortunately most other voicebanks will just add a normal glottal stop without fry, so it's very voicebank dependant.


----------



## mallux

Anthony said:


> Try this: 1) turn off Instant Mode, 2) go to the Parameters pane and select/show the Pitch Deviation curve, 3) select all points and delete them. Does that sound better (i.e. less nervous)?


Well it sounds flatter, but then you’re losing _all_ the benefits of the AI autotuning. Ideally I’d want a way to keep the suggested points, but apply a scaling factor (with a slider or something) to make them less pronounced. I’ve been experimenting by modifying the json to do exactly that; divide each point by 2 or 3, and that makes it sound more natural to me, without losing it completely, but it’s a bit of a hassle. If the pro version has that feature already as people have suggested then I guess I’ll find out when I buy it. Waiting for pay day


----------



## odod

Blancanegra said:


> Just an idea... have you tried to delete the notes where the glitches occur and create the notes again? maybe that solve the problem.


Yes, it is the only way for me last time, however it solved by the update now .. remaining issue is the recent project file list .. it is not updating


----------



## David Cuny

mallux said:


> If the pro version has that feature already as people have suggested then I guess I’ll find out when I buy it.


The Pro version can be scripted via an API so you can write code to automate that for you. You can use JavaScript or Lua.

For what you want, it's just a matter of getting the Automation attributes for the *Pitch Deviation* between that range and scaling it.

*Edit:* The attached script will scale all *Pitch Deviation* values between the first and last selected note, inclusive. 

Worked on my machine, but: No guarantee for Fitness of Use, Use At Your Own Risk, Backup Your Files First, _etc_.


----------



## Blancanegra

jblongz said:


> I’m interested in the plugin, but the webpage manager needs to fill in the info:
> 
> - no file size information for individual voice packs.
> - missing demos for voices in the catalog.
> 
> I know its a work in progress. I’m just waiting for them to catch up.



The file size would never be a problem, is ridiculous small:






The demos that are usually published by the developers or sellers of this type of software are quite... I don't know how to say it without being offensive, let's say they are wrong choices. It really seems that they are not aware of the potential of the software or their target audience.


----------



## Blancanegra

mallux said:


> Well it sounds flatter, but then you’re losing _all_ the benefits of the AI autotuning. Ideally I’d want a way to keep the suggested points, but apply a scaling factor (with a slider or something) to make them less pronounced. I’ve been experimenting by modifying the json to do exactly that; divide each point by 2 or 3, and that makes it sound more natural to me, without losing it completely, but it’s a bit of a hassle. If the pro version has that feature already as people have suggested then I guess I’ll find out when I buy it. Waiting for pay day


As the auto tuning pitch is one of the most important features, sure it would evolve to offer more control and options to the user. Sometimes I need a flatter pitch as you say, and miss more control to shape vibratos.


----------



## odod

harmony script courtesy of Maiko

harmony


----------



## mallux

David Cuny said:


> The Pro version can be scripted via an API so you can write code to automate that for you. You can use JavaScript or Lua.
> 
> For what you want, it's just a matter of getting the Automation attributes for the *Pitch Deviation* between that range and scaling it.
> 
> *Edit:* The attached script will scale all *Pitch Deviation* values between the first and last selected note, inclusive.
> 
> Worked on my machine, but: No guarantee for Fitness of Use, Use At Your Own Risk, Backup Your Files First, _etc_.


That looks awesome, thanks David.


----------



## odod

the new voice database is Out









Mo Chen Voice Database - Dreamtonics Store


Synthesizer V AI Mo Chen is Dreamtonics’ first AI voice database for Chinese male voices. Mo Chen is made to fit the characteristics of C-POPs. His mature and stable voice presents a unique tone that stands out in the mid-bass range. The clear and on-point pronunciation makes him ideal for...




store.dreamtonics.com


----------



## jblongz

Does anyone know if it’s possible to make these voices rap?


----------



## Getsumen

jblongz said:


> Does anyone know if it’s possible to make these voices rap?


Would be difficult I presume. Rap is closer to speech than singing and I'd imagine it would struggle a little


----------



## David Cuny

odod said:


> The new voice [Mo Chen] database is Out


Just downloaded it. He's got three *Vocal Modes*: *Open*, *Soft* and *Clear*. He lacks power - he seems to be targeted at soft vocals, which is fine.

The trans-lingual feature works well, but he's got a slight roll to his *r*, and non-pure vowels (_i.e._ dipthongs) have a bit of accent to them. I think it's more noticeable than with *Qing Su*, who's actually got excellent English.

He seems to have some high-pitched ringing in the aspiration. Since the aspiration portion is supposed to be unpitched, this isn't a good thing. YMMV.

He's got a pleasant voice - just don't expect any sort of power from it.


----------



## odod

David Cuny said:


> Just downloaded it. He's got three *Vocal Modes*: *Open*, *Soft* and *Clear*. He lacks power - he seems to be targeted at soft vocals, which is fine.
> 
> The trans-lingual feature works well, but he's got a slight roll to his *r*, and non-pure vowels (_i.e._ dipthongs) have a bit of accent to them. I think it's more noticeable than with *Qing Su*, who's actually got excellent English.
> 
> He seems to have some high-pitched ringing in the aspiration. Since the aspiration portion is supposed to be unpitched, this isn't a good thing. YMMV.
> 
> He's got a pleasant voice - just don't expect any sort of power from it.


Whoaa, congrats! care to post an example? I am so happy with Solaria and Kevin already .. can Mo Chen sing in english??


----------



## David Cuny

odod said:


> Whoaa, congrats! care to post an example? I am so happy with Solaria and Kevin already .. can Mo Chen sing in english??


Yes, he can sing in English using the trans-lingual function. Here's short bit that runs *Mo Chen* through some high and low notes:

View attachment Mo_Chen.mp3


He's got a touch of accent - you can hear a bit on _"night"_.

For comparison, here's *Ryo *(native language is Japanese). He's less clear than Mo Chen - note the *t* on _"mountains"_, the *r* in _"read"_, the *i* in _"night"_ and the *g* on _"go":_

View attachment Ryo.mp3


And *Kevin *(native language is English) has louder, more resonant sound:

View attachment Kevin.mp3


----------



## Rob

David Cuny said:


> Yes, he can sing in English using the trans-lingual function. Here's short bit that runs him through some high and low notes:
> 
> View attachment Mo_Chen.mp3
> 
> 
> He's got a touch of accent - you can hear a bit on _"night"_.


David, what's the "trans-lingual" function if you please?


----------



## David Cuny

Rob said:


> David, what's the "trans-lingual" function if you please?


One of the features of the newer AI voices - not available in the Lite versions of the voices - is the ability to sing in Chinese, Japanese or English - no matter what the original language of the singer is. The option is found in the *Voice* panel:






This is possible because the neural network has been trained to transform the voice from the original language into the target language.

Not all the AI voices have been updated to do this, but all the voices sold on the Dreamtonics site have been. For example, the voice provider for _Mo Chen_ is a native Chinese speaker.

Working with a voice using the trans-lingual option - other than setting the target language - is exactly the same as working with a native voice.

In the example I posted, there's still a _slight_ an accent to the voice, but it's _much_ better than having the voice provider sing in the target language if they aren't fluent in it. For example, here's the same file sung by *Tsurumaki Maki *(non-AI version). It's an older voicebank, and obviously the voice provider isn't a fluent English singer:

View attachment Tsurumaki_Maki_(Eng_Lite).mp3


Here's the same file sung by *Qing Su*, a native Chinese speaker, using the trans-lingual feature:

View attachment Qing_Su.mp3


You can hear there's virtually no accent despite the singer not being a native English speaker. In fact, I think the female voices sound better in English than the male trans-lingual voices.


----------



## Rob

David Cuny said:


> One of the features of the newer AI voices - not available in the Lite versions of the voices - is the ability to sing in Chinese, Japanese or English - no matter what the original language of the singer is. The option is found in the *Voice* panel:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is possible because the neural network has been trained to transform the voice from the original language into the target language.
> 
> Not all the AI voices have been updated to do this, but all the voices sold on the Dreamtonics site have been. For example, the voice provider for _Mo Chen_ is a native Chinese speaker.
> 
> Working with a voice using the trans-lingual option - other than setting the target language - is exactly the same as working with a native voice.
> 
> In the example I posted, there's still a _slight_ an accent to the voice, but it's _much_ better than having the voice provider sing in the target language if they aren't fluent in it. For example, here's the same file sung by *Tsurumaki Maki *(non-AI version). It's an older voicebank, and obviously the voice provider isn't an fluent English singer:
> 
> View attachment Tsurumaki_Maki_(Eng_Lite).mp3
> 
> 
> Here's the same file sung by *Qing Su*, a native Chinese speaker, using the trans-lingual feature:
> 
> View attachment Qing_Su.mp3
> 
> 
> You can hear there's virtually no accent despite the singer not being a native English speaker. In fact, I think the female voices sound better in English than the male voices.


Thanks a lot David!


----------



## odod

David Cuny said:


> Yes, he can sing in English using the trans-lingual function. Here's short bit that runs him through some high and low notes:
> 
> View attachment Mo_Chen.mp3
> 
> 
> He's got a touch of accent - you can hear a bit on _"night"_.


wow, this one is smoother than Kevin .. Thank you for this demo, I am gonna save my money to buy this definitely


----------



## David Cuny

Sorry... I accidentally hit the *Post Reply* button instead of the *Insert* button, so I only finished the post halfway before it got posted. Fixed it now.


----------



## David Cuny

odod said:


> wow, this one is smoother than Kevin .. Thank you for this demo, I am gonna save my money to buy this definitely


For the sake of comparison, I've edited the original post to include *Ryo* and *Kevin*.


----------



## odod

David Cuny said:


> For the sake of comparison, I've edited the original post to include *Ryo* and *Kevin*.


Ahh yes, Mo Chen's voice is quite weak compared to both, but I love how he has lesser Ess and FF etc in His voice, can you please kindly put their voice in context of a song? I want to hear how Mo's voice blending in a song .. sorry if this is too much


----------



## David Cuny

odod said:


> Ahh yes, Mo Chen's voice is quite weak compared to both, but I love how he has lesser Ess and FF etc in His voice, can you please kindly put their voice in context of a song? I want to hear how Mo's voice blending in a song .. sorry if this is too much


I understand the request, but the song's genre, arrangement, and mix are all going to be major factors in how the vocal sounds. And you're going to want to select the key, arrangement and mix to show off the voice in the best possible light.

And there are "cheats" like TrackSpacer that can be used to get vocals to sit in a mix they might ordinarily have issues with.

You've checked out the demo song linked on the Dreamtonics website, right?









Mo Chen Voice Database - Dreamtonics Store


Synthesizer V AI Mo Chen is Dreamtonics’ first AI voice database for Chinese male voices. Mo Chen is made to fit the characteristics of C-POPs. His mature and stable voice presents a unique tone that stands out in the mid-bass range. The clear and on-point pronunciation makes him ideal for...




store.dreamtonics.com





Plus, there are all sorts of things you would do to the vocal to adjust the timbre to make it fit better.

And... I haven't got a song handy to demo it with.


----------



## Blancanegra

Today I tried with an U2 favorites of mine:

Where the streets have no name (U2)
View attachment Where the streets have no name test.mp3


Each song is different and it was a bit hard than expected because has short but very expressive phrases. Even are not perfect I also added a few growls with the @Hataori growl script.

The "ha, ha, ha" between verses was a bit tricky, magically started to sound good when I included note breaths between them. Notice those expirations at the end of "flame" and "woh-hoh", done adding a note with /hh/.

Kevin acapella
View attachment Where the streets have no name vocal test.mp3


Enjoy!


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Mo chen’s voice is much more pleasant to me compared to kevin, probably works well as a background singer. I think all the voices lack power more or less.


----------



## Tim_Wells

Some of you have become quite knowledgeable and should consider creating a Synthesizer V YouTube channel. I'd watch.


----------



## Vlzmusic

AceAudioHQ said:


> I think all the voices lack power more or less.


Transients play a huge role in this. More than a decade ago, while working on his famous Wivi synth, Arne Wallander commented about the difficulty synths encounter with sharp transients - that's why samples manage so well capturing shorts and percussion. 

I think Synth V will overcome this phenomenon to some degree, once it will incorporate its clever AI to create "singing styles" . Considering how well it managed to manipulate pitch, cross language synthesis etc. it should solve that one as well. 

Solaria already exhibits much more strident singing than Eleanor/Anri, she just needs additional contrast between explosive attacks and the sustain portion, and if you want to make her another Garland - some sort of amplitude tremolation, to work in tandem with the pitch vibrato. All big voices, as in opera etc. have pulsating amplitude flunctuations besides the regular vibrato you get by rocking your hand on the violin neck.


----------



## jblongz

How long does it take to program a decent verse?


----------



## Vlzmusic

Well - sorry if this was posted already, but judging by this demo from Youtube, Kevin can sound pretty energetic. I am not fond of the tremolo hack done here, but I understand it was used to try and make the voice sound agitated. Leaving this trick aside - damn, several months ago I would call BS on anyone trying to sell me THIS as a "Vocaloid" track


----------



## David Cuny

jblongz said:


> How long does it take to program a decent verse?


It depends on what you mean by "decent". You can usually get a good track by putting in the notes and typing in the lyrics. The examples I posted were straight out of _SynthesizerV_ using only the auto-tuning function.

You can always download the free version of the editor and a Lite voice and try it yourself.


----------



## Blancanegra

Hi @David Cuny, would it be possible to write a script to delete the modifications in the notes, leaving the default values?

I want to publish more demos to help users and I think it is very interesting to be able to compare the before and after changes in the notes properties, especially the phonemes duration and strength.

Manual reset takes a lot of time!


----------



## JimDiGritz

Blancanegra said:


> Today I tried with an U2 favorites of mine:
> 
> Where the streets have no name (U2)
> View attachment Where the streets have no name test.mp3


Man, that's so lifelike... he actually breaks wind at 0:13


----------



## PerryD

So I got Synthesizer V Pro and Solaria. I am vision impaired, so navigating such a unique piece of software is not easy for me. Within about an hour, I was at least able to get some audio happening. Ha! I have no idea why I did a 10 second parody of O Canada as a test...I honestly have nothing against Canada and loved visiting Vancouver when I lived in Washington State.


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> Hi @David Cuny, would it be possible to write a script to delete the modifications in the notes, leaving the default values?
> 
> I want to publish more demos to help users and I think it is very interesting to be able to compare the before and after changes in the notes properties, especially the phonemes duration and strength.
> 
> Manual reset takes a lot of time!


Undo (Ctrl+Z) should work, and you can save the un-modified version before you make the changes. 

It's still going to take the same amount of time to rebuild the vocal no matter what method you use.


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> I've made a number of scripts, but the one I use the most automatically assigns curves to the following parameters:
> 
> Loudness
> Tension
> Breathiness
> Gender
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> synth-v-scripts/Expressive 2.lua at main · dcuny/synth-v-scripts
> 
> 
> Scripts for the Synthesizer V program. Contribute to dcuny/synth-v-scripts development by creating an account on GitHub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For each selected note, the script creates a three-point spline - one control point at the start of the note, one near the midpoint, and one at the end. It makes a rough guess what the position and amplitude of the midpoint should be, with default values adjustable in the dialog.
> 
> Editing the *Parameters* is just a matter of using the *Line Tool* to drag the spline's midpoint to a different time or amplitude - or just delete control points to merge curves.
> 
> I find that moving a single control point is a _much _simpler way to edit the parameters, as opposed to having to draw the control points manually.
> 
> Of course, *Pitch* requires a higher degree of detail, so it's not included. And the AI feature does a much better job than my code could.
> 
> The code is nowhere as complex as Hataori's, but my goal is to provide tools that make it easier to create a performance from scratch, not duplicate an existing performance.


Aaaah! I have to try this, thank you David!


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> Undo (Ctrl+Z) should work, and you can save the un-modified version before you make the changes.
> 
> It's still going to take the same amount of time to rebuild the vocal no matter what method you use.


Yeah, what happens most of the time is I allways forgot to duplicate the track before editing, haha!

Restoring the melody notes to their original state (1 syllabe, 1 note) doesn't take too long, but not the note properties. Sure it could be done in Notepad++ replacing the note properties strings, but I'm not sure if it's worth trying it, considering how little time I have, and I prefer to have fun!


----------



## Hataori

Blancanegra said:


> replacing the note properties strings


Modify / Reset Timing and Phonemes doesn't do what you need? Also Reset Pitch?


----------



## Blancanegra

Another "Rocky" demo with Kevin!

Eye of the tiger (Survivor)
View attachment Eye of the tiger test.mp3


In the attached project file there are 2 tracks:

*First track* with target notes only from an imported midi I did first in the DAW (1 syllabe=1 note, + melismas). As it has no ornamentations it sounds so bad like this:

Vocals - First track
View attachment Eye of the tiger - target notes.mp3


Regardless, notice how the AI tries to rely on a previous key in order to reach the target note in big tonal jumps, like in "when *the dis*tance". Don't worry if your projects sounds like that at first glance! 


*Second track*, where I build supports splitting syllabes into two notes, in the same way singers do when singing.
In voice settings, low breathness and some tension, to reduce the amount of drawing in those parameters. Also I played with the vocal modes *Belt* and *Solid* until I find something close to a rock voice timbre.

In the higher notes I have increased the tension to achieve a more powerful voice, compensating for the perceived reduction in volume by increasing the loudness. I have also achieved stronger attacks by doing the same thing with small spikes of both parameters at the beginning of some syllables.

Vocals - Second track
View attachment Eye of the tiger vocals final test.mp3


Can be done better? of course, but now I prefer to try something else.

Download the project file and enjoy, there is much to try!

If you are new to this, it will be helpful to learn and motivating, and you will soon achieve great results.


----------



## Blancanegra

Hataori said:


> Modify / Reset Timing and Phonemes doesn't do what you need? Also Reset Pitch?


What? Is there such a function somewhere? can it be done on a selection of notes? If so, I didn't know about it, I'll look it up! (pitch is no problem).

Thank you!


----------



## Hataori

Blancanegra said:


> can it be done on a selection of notes?


Yes - you have to select notes before you can use it.


----------



## raidergale

Another test with Solaria and Hataori's script, this time it's Postmodern Jukebox's cover of Britney Spears' Toxic.

View attachment ToxicPMJTest.mp3


I think Solaria works really well here, but later parts will probably be an issue since the singer adds a lot of grit in her voice which I don't think I can properly replicate with SynthV.


----------



## Markrs

raidergale said:


> Another test with Solaria and Hataori's script, this time it's Postmodern Jukebox's cover of Britney Spears' Toxic.
> 
> View attachment ToxicPMJTest.mp3
> 
> 
> I think Solaria works really well here, but later parts will probably be an issue since the singer adds a lot of grit in her voice which I don't think I can properly replicate with SynthV.


This sounds amazing, when I am listening to it, it is hard to believe that it isn’t a real singer, that is singing it. Fantastic work


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> Another test with Solaria and Hataori's script, this time it's Postmodern Jukebox's cover of Britney Spears' Toxic.
> 
> View attachment ToxicPMJTest.mp3
> 
> 
> I think Solaria works really well here, but later parts will probably be an issue since the singer adds a lot of grit in her voice which I don't think I can properly replicate with SynthV.


Your jazz examples are my favourites. Absolutely stunning.


----------



## raidergale

Thanks!
I've finished the full cover, but as I said I just couldn't replicate the grit the original singer adds near the end of the song. I did try using Hataori's Growl script, but the results just didn't work well with this, so I had to go with a cleaner sound.


----------



## Trash Panda

How did you simulate the vocal break when she transitioned between head voice and chest voice? That's been eluding me thus far.


----------



## raidergale

Trash Panda said:


> How did you simulate the vocal break when she transitioned between head voice and chest voice? That's been eluding me thus far.


Do you have a specific timestamp in the video? Honestly, Hataori's script is doing most of the work here, since it copied the original singer's pitchbends quite well and this song required minimal editing on that part. Most other editing I did is phoneme timing (which did add some unexpected breaks that I ended up keeping, like in "Too high" at 2:20).
If that particular vocal break is what you were referring to then it's a mix of luck and extended "hh" phoneme, plus the pitchbend quickly going up and then down. As I said I wasn't expecting a break there, but extending the "hh" phoneme caused the AI to add a slight stop.


----------



## Trash Panda

By vocal break, I am referring to that embarrassing sound we all struggle with as teenagers when our voice cracks. Singers often do this intentionally to add character to the performance or inject a "whine" into their tone. It's super common for rock singers especially.

Here are some examples: 

1:08. The vocal break happens on the "down" from "Too high, can't come down".
1:14 at the beginning of the last "round" word in the phrase
1:29 in the vibrato of "your"
2:24 on the "down" from "Too high, can't come down" is probably the most pronounced instance of it
2:30 at the beginning of "around"


----------



## raidergale

Oh, I see, then those examples you listed are all simple quick pitchbends, you can see them in the video as the line on top of the notes. I didn't change any particular parameter there, so having the pitchbend go up and then "snap back" down on the note relatively quickly is enough to get the effect you're talking about


----------



## JimDiGritz

raidergale said:


> Thanks!
> I've finished the full cover, but as I said I just couldn't replicate the grit the original singer adds near the end of the song. I did try using Hataori's Growl script, but the results just didn't work well with this, so I had to go with a cleaner sound.



Okay, I'm calling it. This is fake - there is no way this isn't a real singer.

Stop the game I win.

...

seriously - wow.


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> Oh, I see, then those examples you listed are all simple quick pitchbends, you can see them in the video as the line on top of the notes. I didn't change any particular parameter there, so having the pitchbend go up and then "snap back" down on the note relatively quickly is enough to get the effect you're talking about


This is very nice to know. Thanks for that. (Now i think of it, this is actually a feature of most wind instruments and not only of the human voice. With wind libraries a lot of realism can be attained by drawing in some very quick pitch changes at crucial times.)


----------



## JimDiGritz

Okay, I'm sure this has been asked already but I've skimmed most of the 48 pages on this thread and would appreciate a hand.

I can't buy anything from AniCute - all the credit cards I tried fail. Maybe it's because I'm in the UK...





So I guess I can't buy Eleanor...

But I should be able to buy SynthV and another voice (eg Ken) from the Dreamtronics website... right?

Then add an English female voice like Solaria from the Eclispsed Sounds website?

Or would you suggest I just start with Solaria (since it seems to suggest it comes with the non Pro version of SynthV)? Then look to add voice packs?

Am I missing anything?


----------



## JimDiGritz

JimDiGritz said:


> Okay, I'm sure this has been asked already but I've skimmed most of the 48 pages on this thread and would appreciate a hand.
> 
> I can't buy anything from AniCute - all the credit cards I tried fail. Maybe it's because I'm in the UK...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I guess I can't buy Eleanor...
> 
> But I should be able to buy SynthV and another voice (eg Ken) from the Dreamtronics website... right?
> 
> Then add an English female voice like Solaria from the Eclispsed Sounds website?
> 
> Or would you suggest I just start with Solaria (since it seems to suggest it comes with the non Pro version of SynthV)? Then look to add voice packs?
> 
> Am I missing anything?


So after selecting PayPal checkout on EclipsedSounds for Solaria I got a "Purchase failed - item out of stock" message....

I feel like I'm trying to find the secret entrance to a mystical castle... can these people make it any harder to spend money??


----------



## JimDiGritz

JimDiGritz said:


> So after selecting PayPal checkout on EclipsedSounds for Solaria I got a "Purchase failed - item out of stock" message....
> 
> I feel like I'm trying to find the secret entrance to a mystical castle... can these people make it any harder to spend money??


Well. I eventually managed to pass the arcane test and Eclipse grudgingly accepted my Imperial Coins of the Realm (British Pounds)... by PayPal.

Now I need to infiltrate the Japanese ecommerce sect and convince them to take my money..


----------



## Blancanegra

JimDiGritz said:


> Well. I eventually managed to pass the arcane test and Eclipse grudgingly accepted my Imperial Coins of the Realm (British Pounds)... by PayPal.
> 
> Now I need to infiltrate the Japanese ecommerce sect and convince them to take my money..


Hi Jim, welcome to this new world!

You should have no problem shopping at the dreamtonics store. It has bundle of Synthesizer V Studio Pro and a voice bank:









[Bundle] Synthesizer V Studio Pro + Any Voice Database - Dreamtonics Store


Notes This is a digital product. Download links and activation codes for both Synthesizer V Studio Pro and the voice database of your choice will be delivered through email upon successful purchase.




store.dreamtonics.com





If you neeed any help you find yourself stuck trying to do something with the voices, ask!


----------



## JimDiGritz

Well I managed to buy both the Pro version as well as Kevin and Solaria... 

Here's my first attempt - I foolishly decided to have another go at the acapella Real Group covering Nature Boy.

Loads of issues on this track, including a dodgy start, but I'm incredibly impressed with this tech on using it for the first time!


NB I did layer a little EWC underneath to pad out the sound and blend some of the more exposed parts. I also used the Voices of Rapture - The Bass since Kevin is definitely no able to do Bass!


----------



## JimDiGritz

I'm wondering if anyone can shed light on how the Instant mode works... the manual doesn't seem to cover it.

With Instant mode OFF, the Voice>Defaults affect the notes - eg if I turn Instant Off and add some notes and then modify the Default - Vibrato Depth the waveform on the Note is adjusted. HOWEVER as soon as I turn on Instant mode the waveform is locked and is no longer affected by the Default sliders.

It now appears to be frozen, even when Instant is turned off again..

Am I missing something? Is there any way to get back to the notes so that the Defaults can be edited again?


----------



## Blancanegra

JimDiGritz said:


> I'm wondering if anyone can shed light on how the Instant mode works... the manual doesn't seem to cover it.
> 
> With Instant mode OFF, the Voice>Defaults affect the notes - eg if I turn Instant Off and add some notes and then modify the Default - Vibrato Depth the waveform on the Note is adjusted. HOWEVER as soon as I turn on Instant mode the waveform is locked and is no longer affected by the Default sliders.
> 
> It now appears to be frozen, even when Instant is turned off again..
> 
> Am I missing something? Is there any way to get back to the notes so that the Defaults can be edited again?


Jim, I guess you are trying to modify the vibrato of the note, wich could be modified in the note properties panel for the note/s selected.

What are you doing is to set the global vibrato values for the voice when the instant mode is off.


----------



## JimDiGritz

Blancanegra said:


> Jim, I guess you are trying to modify the vibrato of the note, wich could be modified in the note properties panel for the note/s selected.
> 
> What are you doing is to set the global vibrato values for the voice when the instant mode is off.


Yes, well actually both! I first wanted to reduce the vibrato frequency of a specific note, and potentially change the default affecting all notes. 

However neither Note nor Voice settings change the note Vibrato once the project has Instant mode turned on. I can change some parameters on a note like Right and Left Depth, but not vibrato


----------



## Blancanegra

Couldn't resist to cover this fantastic and catchy tune composed by an AI:

Blue jeans and bloody tears
View attachment Blue Jeans and Bloody Tears test.mp3




> "The project team fed hundreds of Eurovision songs – melodies and lyrics – into a neuron network. Then, algorithms produced thousands of new tunes and lines of verse, from which a few musical units were carefully selected and “welded” into a song.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AI Intelligence Song 'Blue Jeans And Bloody Tears' by Karni & Saul | Videos
> 
> 
> The annual campfest that is Eurovision takes place tomorrow night (May 18th) in Tel Aviv. But will there be anything on it as good as the first …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.promonews.tv



Robot, lead and harmony vocals done with Kevin.

OK, I'm not the king of mixing for sure and sometimes I feel I'm moving knobs like a monkey in a nuclear plant, but I'm happy enough with this one.

AAh, enjoy the project file!


----------



## Blancanegra

JimDiGritz said:


> Yes, well actually both! I first wanted to reduce the vibrato frequency of a specific note, and potentially change the default affecting all notes.
> 
> However neither Note nor Voice settings change the note Vibrato once the project has Instant mode turned on. I can change some parameters on a note like Right and Left Depth, but not vibrato


In the note properties panel there are the following dropdown options:
Navigation
Autopitch tunning
Pitch transition
*Vibrato*
Timing and phonemes
Expression group

Have you scrolled down the panel to see all those options?

With instant mode on you also can add vibrato to notes in the properties panel. But maybe you need a note with plain pitch in first place. Roll the dice or draw a plain pitch your self with the pencil tool placed in the piano roll tool bar.


----------



## CatOrchestra

szczaw said:


> Synth V sounds more realistic, the editor is very good (the pro version), but for some reason it doesn't record notes. In Emvoice you can easily record notes from your DAW, copy and paste text phrases, and for some people this may be a faster and easier way of getting notes into the editor.
> 
> ...





David Cuny said:


> Assuming you're talking about _SynthV, _for the best possible sound, you need the Pro version of the Studio. The free version has somewhat lower sound quality.
> 
> If you've worked with piano roll notation before, you should have no issue with working in the _SynthV_ Studio. I prefer to do all the voice work in the Studio, and then export the *.wav* file out. Since it rewrites the same files each time, you can toggle between the DAW and _SynthV_ Studio pretty quickly. It only takes a few seconds to render out a song
> 
> ...



Thank you guys for the replies and help! Would been cool if notation software could had been used.

But this seems super fun! Will go for SynthV


----------



## JimDiGritz

Blancanegra said:


> In the note properties panel there are the following dropdown options:
> Navigation
> Autopitch tunning
> Pitch transition
> *Vibrato*
> Timing and phonemes
> Expression group
> 
> Have you scrolled down the panel to see all those options?
> 
> With instant mode on you also can add vibrato to notes in the properties panel. But maybe you need a note with plain pitch in first place. Roll the dice or draw a plain pitch your self with the pencil tool placed in the piano roll tool bar.


Thanks, but but sometimes this works, and sometimes it just doesn't. 

There seems to be a 'freeze waveform' feature of bug that occurs which means I can't use many of the Note Properties sliders (they just have no effect). 

I would also have assumed that the Defaults would apply to any non-manually adjusted notes, but as per my screenshare earlier - it doesn't seem to do anything.


----------



## JimDiGritz

So, this is what I spent Sunday afternoon doing!


----------



## raidergale

Yet another test with Solaria and Hataori's script (man, I'm boring).
I wanted to see how Solaria would handle very fast notes. The answer is... kinda ok? It's not perfect and some words do get swallowed, but then again it happens in the original too...

View attachment SmoothTest.mp3


Song is the Postmodern Jukebox cover of Michael Jackson's Smooth Criminal.
I'm using tons of Postmodern Jukebox songs because they're usually very lightly processed and don't have backing vocals, so it's easy to isolate an acapella to use with Hataori's script


----------



## AceAudioHQ

I tried praat and the script but for some reason none of my vocals went low enough even though I tried several different ones and followed the video tutorial


----------



## Hataori

AceAudioHQ said:


> none of my vocals went low enough


I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean by "low enough". Do you mean that the pitch detection was wrong?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Hataori said:


> I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean by "low enough". Do you mean that the pitch detection was wrong?


When the vocal went low, after a certain pitch level all the low notes were the same pitch even though the hz setting was really small in praat


----------



## madfloyd

When people refer to Hataori's script, is it the *randomizeOnset*?


----------



## Hataori

AceAudioHQ said:


> When the vocal went low, after a certain pitch level all the low notes were the same pitch even though the hz setting was really small in praat


The pitch range settings are at two places in Praat - one for the display and one when creating the Pitch object from Sound object. The second one is important. When you select sound, click on Analyse periodicity button and To Pitch - a dialog pops up where you shoud input Pitch floor low enough. But default is 75 Hz - it should be enough.
Would you mind to send me (in PM) an example of your sound file?

And for the display (the blue line in sonogram) - you set it in menu / Pitch settings, but it doesn't influence the later analysis. If it's not low enough, the blue line is stuck to the bottom (and the same at heights).


----------



## Hataori

madfloyd said:


> When people refer to Hataori's script, is it the *randomizeOnset*?


@raidergale is using the other scripts from this repo, particularly notesFromTextGrid.lua and loadPitch.lua I would say. There is a couple of videos describing how to use it in this playlist. This one is the most recent.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Hataori said:


> The pitch range settings are at two places in Praat - one for the display and one when creating the Pitch object from Sound object. The second one is important. When you select sound, click on Analyse periodicity button and To Pitch - a dialog pops up where you shoud input Pitch floor low enough. But default is 75 Hz - it should be enough.


Yea I tried it with the default settings, the weird thing is, I tried with several vocals, and all had the same issue, but now when I tried again, with the exact same settings and workflow, it didn't have the problem, it went just as low as the vocal's lowest part. maybe a bug in praat(?). I also tried with my own unprocessed vocals but praat couldn't detect the pitch from them at all, maybe they have to be super clean and treated.


----------



## Hataori

AceAudioHQ said:


> praat couldn't detect the pitch from them at all


This is strange - Praat can detect almost everything, also in bad noise. I am curious about those yours vocals which cannot be detected. Are they super low? At worst it detects an ocatve above, but not at all?


----------



## madfloyd

Hataori said:


> @raidergale is using the other scripts from this repo, particularly notesFromTextGrid.lua and loadPitch.lua I would say. There is a couple of videos describing how to use it in this playlist. This one is the most recent.


Thank you! Having to learn another piece of software (Praat) seems a little daunting but I'm going to take the plunge!


----------



## Hataori

madfloyd said:


> another piece of software


At least it will tell you a lot about phonetics - it may come in handy!


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Hataori said:


> This is strange - Praat can detect almost everything, also in bad noise. I am curious about those yours vocals which cannot be detected. Are they super low? At worst it detects an ocatve above, but not at all?


I'm a basic baritone, not super low, praat plays it fine and shows the pitch, but when I save the pitch in the txt file, and import it to synth v, the pitch curve is almost flat, and if I export another file from praat to the same project file, with for example the singing of freddie mercury, it works just fine. The only technical difference I can see is that my vocal is mono and the others are stereo. Praat does play the pitch correctly with its own synth but maybe it doesn't save it right or something.


----------



## Hataori

AceAudioHQ said:


> maybe it doesn't save it right


When saving to text file save the pitch as a SHORT text file - there are 2 options!


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Hataori said:


> When saving to text file save the pitch as a SHORT text file - there are 2 options!


Yes that's what I do. In praat it looks like this and playing it with its own synth it sounds just fine, the pitch is correct






In synth v it's almost flat and it sounds like a single flat tone, with tiny vibrations. If I replace it with any other pitch export, the pitch curves are way bigger and correct


----------



## Hataori

AceAudioHQ said:


> In synth v it's almost flat and it sounds like a single flat tone, with tiny vibrations. If I replace it with any other pitch export, the pitch curves are way bigger and correct


I don't see anything from this image, can you PM me at least the pitch.txt file?


----------



## JimDiGritz

Easter Monday attempt:


----------



## cambler

Really loving everyone’s input and example works here. Thanks so much. If I wasn’t away on holiday I would already have bought SynthV and a voice bank or two. One question I have though is around diction/pronunciation. So much of what these voices are doing sound human to my ears but the thing that sticks out is the over pronunciation of words/lyrics. This may be more so for the Kevin examples I’ve heard over something like Solaria but I think I can still hear it in the latter. Is there a way to soften this to produce something a little more in line with contemporary (& indie) pop and rock?


----------



## Blancanegra

cambler said:


> Really loving everyone’s input and example works here. Thanks so much. If I wasn’t away on holiday I would already have bought SynthV and a voice bank or two. One question I have though is around diction/pronunciation. So much of what these voices are doing sound human to my ears but the thing that sticks out is the over pronunciation of words/lyrics. This may be more so for the Kevin examples I’ve heard over something like Solaria but I think I can still hear it in the latter. Is there a way to soften this to produce something a little more in line with contemporary (& indie) pop and rock?


Yes, you can modify the phoneme duration and strengh to acheive very different pronunciations.


----------



## cambler

Blancanegra said:


> Yes, you can modify the phoneme duration and strengh to acheive very different pronunciations.


Wonderful to hear. I’m assuming one might modify the actual words as well to help play with the diction a little? Are you able to point me to any examples with a more “slack” kind of pronunciation? 

Can’t wait to get home and start playing!


----------



## Blancanegra

JimDiGritz said:


> So, this is what I spent Sunday afternoon doing!



If you reduce the tension in the voice panel and increase the breathness, you will achieve voice type more similar to the original.

To improve the interpretation, move her away from the electric fence!


----------



## JimDiGritz

Blancanegra said:


> If you reduce the tension in the voice panel and increase the breathness, you will achieve voice type more similar to the original.
> 
> To improve the interpretation, move her away from the electric fence!


thanks!

re: the electric fence comment - I guess you're referring to the vibrato? I've tried going in and manually re-drawing the vibrato on each note but have missed some! It's a shame that the Voice panel - Defaults Vibrato doesn't affect notes once they've been entered - it would be really nice to globally reduce all vibrato *after *tweaking the notes!


----------



## Blancanegra

cambler said:


> Wonderful to hear. I’m assuming one might modify the actual words as well to help play with the diction a little? Are you able to point me to any examples with a more “slack” kind of pronunciation?
> 
> Can’t wait to get home and start playing!


You hardly ever need need to modify the words or lyrics (unless some word fits better phonetically in some cases, like Anne instead of and, etc), but the phonemes of those words to change the diction to some extent. 

In case you have installed the editor and Kevin voicebank, I posted some project files you can download to test.

Open one of my demos project file.
Duplicate the final track
Select all notes of the duplicated track
Go to Menu/ Modify/ Reset Timing and Phonemes

Listen and compare both tracks to notice the modifications in phoneme timing/strengh.


----------



## cambler

Blancanegra said:


> You hardly ever need need to modify the words or lyrics (unless some word fits better phonetically in some cases, like Anne instead of and, etc), but the phonemes of those words to change the diction to some extent.
> 
> In case you have installed the editor and Kevin voicebank, I posted some project files you can download to test.
> 
> Open one of my demos project file.
> Duplicate the final track
> Select all notes of the duplicated track
> Go to Menu/ Modify/ Reset Timing and Phonemes
> 
> Listen and compare both tracks to notice the modifications in phoneme timing/strengh.


Ok that all sounds good. I’m sure it’ll all make perfect sense once I’m back in the studio and can have a play. At the moment it’s all vicarious joy through reading the forum whilst on holiday 

Really appreciate your help. Thanks so much.


----------



## Blancanegra

PerryD said:


> So I got Synthesizer V Pro and Solaria. I am vision impaired, so navigating such a unique piece of software is not easy for me. Within about an hour, I was at least able to get some audio happening. Ha! I have no idea why I did a 10 second parody of O Canada as a test...I honestly have nothing against Canada and loved visiting Vancouver when I lived in Washington State.


Hey PerryD, in the 1.6.0 update they added an slider for controlling the GUI scaling factor in the settings panel. It doesn't work for me (Windows 10).

If it doesn't work for you too, we can post the bug in the developer forum.


----------



## JimDiGritz

Slightly off topic but given that Waves has a decent sale on including vocal plugins https://www.waves.com/bundles/vocal 

Are there any of these that pair nicely with Synthv or are they mostly redundant?


----------



## David Cuny

Waves is having a sale? 

You can always do with a good de-esser - especially with _SynthV - _so *Renaissance De-Esser* or *Sibilance* fall into that category. *Vocal Rider *is nice at getting a constant volume, but generally _SynthV_ doesn't have much of a that a simple compressor probably can't handle.

The rest of them aren't strictly necessary.


----------



## parapentep70

I have (and use) about 2 dozens of good vocal sample libraries. I knew Vocaliod and was never convinced, I knew (and used) Alter Ego, and also had a look at the first attempts by Synthesizer V (not convinced at all). Then I decided synthetic voice is not (yet) for me. I never decided to buy EmVoice that is half synthetic.

But yesterday I heard a couple of demos and... instant buy Studio Pro + Solaria. It's amazing the work done in Synthesizer V and their results. One key factor for me is that it is EASIER to get decent results with S-V than with some good solo or choir libraries.

Waiting for the weekend to create some quick demo to show off!

Amazing!


----------



## Knute5

parapentep70 said:


> I have (and use) about 2 dozens of good vocal sample libraries. I knew Vocaliod and was never convinced, I knew (and used) Alter Ego, and also had a look at the first attempts by Synthesizer V (not convinced at all). Then I decided synthetic voice is not (yet) for me. I never decided to buy EmVoice that is half synthetic.
> 
> But yesterday I heard a couple of demos and... instant buy Studio Pro + Solaria. It's amazing the work done in Synthesizer V and their results. One key factor for me is that it is EASIER to get decent results with S-V than with some good solo or choir libraries.
> 
> Waiting for the weekend to create some quick demo to show off!
> 
> Amazing!


To have this kind of phonetic and melodic control over the EW (deliver me from VOTOX), Spitfire, etc. choir libraries ... that would be epic. As it stands, I'm exploring overlaying SV tracks to boost diction/clarity when I get the time.


----------



## Blancanegra

A few days ago I published a test of this song with Solaria, later I bought Kevin voicebank and did the duet. Sorry, mixing is not my thing:

Shallow (Bradley Cooper, Lady Gaga)

View attachment Shallow test.mp3


I have somewhat improved the diction of some sentences but there are things that I find difficult to adjust since English is not my first language.

Solaria is very nervous and her auto pitch tuning should be reviewed or adjusted by the developers.

Download the project file and enjoy!


----------



## RMatute

Blancanegra said:


> A few days ago I published a test of this song with Solaria, later I bought Kevin voicebank and did the duet. Sorry, mixing is not my thing:
> 
> Shallow (Bradley Cooper, Lady Gaga)
> 
> View attachment Shallow test.mp3
> 
> 
> I have somewhat improved the diction of some sentences but there are things that I find difficult to adjust since English is not my first language.
> 
> Solaria is very nervous and her auto pitch tuning should be reviewed or adjusted by the developers.
> 
> Download the project file and enjoy!


Excellent work, mi amigo! 
Kevin is completely convincing. 
Solaria not as much, but perhps can be made so with more tweaking?
I'm still waiting for the updated ALTO female voice, Cao****** (how is it spelled?)
Thank you for sharing!


----------



## Blancanegra

RMatute said:


> Excellent work, mi amigo!
> Kevin is completely convincing.
> Solaria not as much, but perhps can be made so with more tweaking?
> I'm still waiting for the updated ALTO female voice, Cao****** (how is it spelled?)
> Thank you for sharing!



Yes, Solaria could sound much better but I didn't feel like spending any more time making phoneme or tunning adjustments. There are songs that are easier to make sound good, and others not, like this one.


----------



## parapentep70

Blancanegra said:


> A few days ago I published a test of this song with Solaria, later I bought Kevin voicebank and did the duet. Sorry, mixing is not my thing:
> 
> Shallow (Bradley Cooper, Lady Gaga)
> 
> View attachment Shallow test.mp3
> 
> 
> I have somewhat improved the diction of some sentences but there are things that I find difficult to adjust since English is not my first language.
> 
> Solaria is very nervous and her auto pitch tuning should be reviewed or adjusted by the developers.
> 
> Download the project file and enjoy!


Thanks, I follow your excellent work. At some point I guess I'll get Kevin (or perhaps the next male singer). Now it's time for me to strart playing with my new toy (Solaria). I agree with you, the word "shallow" sounds like Sha - ha -low", a bit weird even for my Spanglish ear  .


----------



## Blancanegra

parapentep70 said:


> Thanks, I follow your excellent work. At some point I guess I'll get Kevin (or perhaps the next male singer). Now it's time for me to strart playing with my new toy (Solaria). I agree with you, the word "shallow" sounds like Sha - ha -low", a bit weird even for my Spanglish ear  .


The duet lyrics are:

_"In the sha-ha, sha-ha-llow
In the sha-ha-sha-la-la-la-llow
In the sha-ha, sha-ha-llow
We're far from the shallow now"_

So both are singing perfectly there, hehe!


----------



## parapentep70

I cannot believe that it took more time to me to switch to a different guitar riffer and work (very little) on the cello that the voice. My 1st experiment!



(I think it is correct now)


----------



## parapentep70

Blancanegra said:


> The duet lyrics are:
> 
> _"In the sha-ha, sha-ha-llow
> In the sha-ha-sha-la-la-la-llow
> In the sha-ha, sha-ha-llow
> We're far from the shallow now"_
> 
> So both are singing perfectly there, hehe!


Sorry, I did not know the original to this level, my apologies. It sounds great anyway.


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> Yes, Solaria could sound much better but I didn't feel like spending any more time making phoneme or tunning adjustments. There are songs that are easier to make sound good, and others not, like this one.


Personally i think Solaria sounds great here, except in the lower range maybe. Thanks again for sharing. Really inspiring stuff.


----------



## Knute5

Blancanegra said:


> Yes, Solaria could sound much better but I didn't feel like spending any more time making phoneme or tunning adjustments. There are songs that are easier to make sound good, and others not, like this one.


Crazy that a few months ago, something this close to real would even be possible. Now we're on the other side of that possibility and critiquing tracks that show the slightest glitches or digital signatures. Really excellent work. Excited to see where this goes.


----------



## Blancanegra

Aaaah, I really really love how this test turned out:

Have you ever really loved a woman (Bryan Adams)
View attachment Have you ever really loved a woman test.mp3


The more melodic the song, the easier it is to edit and the better the results, or so it seems to me.
This one was easy and fun to edit, just only found had to fix the pronunciation for the word "really". Default phonemes are /r ih l iy/ and I wrote /r ih iy l iy/ leaving the short ones at the end unedited, but didn't tried with /r iy l iy/.

The breathness parameter can be used as deesser, wich I did here drawing valleys on the "s", s"sh", etc. to reduce sibilance.

The overall tone could be improved adjusting the vocal modes for the different verses making groups, but I leave it in your hands. Download the project file and enjoy!

The project has 2 tracks:
Track 1: Imported midi file, with lyrics.
TRack 2: The final result after editing.


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> Aaaah, I really really love how this test turned out:
> 
> Have you ever really loved a woman (Bryan Adams)
> View attachment Have you ever really loved a woman test.mp3
> 
> 
> The more melodic the song, the easier it is to edit and the better the results, or so it seems to me.
> This one was easy and fun to edit, just only found had to fix the pronunciation for the word "really". Default phonemes are /r ih l iy/ and I wrote /r ih iy l iy/ leaving the short ones at the end unedited, but didn't tried with /r iy l iy/.
> 
> The breathness parameter can be used as deesser, wich I did here drawing valleys on the "s", s"sh", etc. to reduce sibilance.
> 
> The overall tone could be improved adjusting the vocal modes for the different verses making groups, but I leave it in your hands. Download the project file and enjoy!
> 
> The project has 2 tracks:
> Track 1: Imported midi file, with lyrics.
> TRack 2: The final result after editing.


Totally different atmosphere again and it does it beautifully. Thanks so much.


----------



## emilio_n

Blancanegra said:


> Aaaah, I really really love how this test turned out:
> 
> Have you ever really loved a woman (Bryan Adams)
> View attachment Have you ever really loved a woman test.mp3
> 
> 
> The more melodic the song, the easier it is to edit and the better the results, or so it seems to me.
> This one was easy and fun to edit, just only found had to fix the pronunciation for the word "really". Default phonemes are /r ih l iy/ and I wrote /r ih iy l iy/ leaving the short ones at the end unedited, but didn't tried with /r iy l iy/.
> 
> The breathness parameter can be used as deesser, wich I did here drawing valleys on the "s", s"sh", etc. to reduce sibilance.
> 
> The overall tone could be improved adjusting the vocal modes for the different verses making groups, but I leave it in your hands. Download the project file and enjoy!
> 
> The project has 2 tracks:
> Track 1: Imported midi file, with lyrics.
> TRack 2: The final result after editing.


¡Suena genial!
Thanks for sharing the project. Finally, I bought Synthesizer + Solaria and Kevin yesterday, and it's a bit confusing. Your project will help me figure out how to do some things.


----------



## Henu

I'm completely speechless (pun intended). Hell freezes over if I don't get this with Kevin and Solaria at the end of the day.


----------



## EJAMES

This thread is a goldmine! It's taken me a while to work my way through all 51 pages, but thank you so much (especially to the regular contributors)


----------



## LTS

Hi my friends, I have an important question for the experts of SYNTH V.
I have a huge template and need to decide if one track dedicated to SYNTH V is enough in order to edit all lead vocals, backing vocals and harmonies of a song.
I have just purchased version 1.6.1 with the new VOCAL MODE PRESETS and in the case of KEVIN's last update the options are now BELT, CLEAR, SOFT and SOLID.
Let's say I need a softer/airy verse mainly based on the main preset SOFT+CLEAR and a more "powerful" opening chorus/refrain based on the preset BELT+SOLID.
My question is: in this case *can I switch between main vocal presets* (again, BELT, CLEAR, SOFT and SOLID in the case of Kevin's last update) *in a same single SYNTH V track* (I searched but didn't find any possibilty in the parameter section to pass from SOFT to SOLID through an automation f.e.) OR do you think is better, thinking about the workflow, to have at least two (or more) SYNTH V instances open in a template with independent selection of main vocal presets for faster and efficient workflow? So interested to know your opinion.
Thank you in advance for your precious help!


----------



## Blancanegra

LTS said:


> Hi my friends, I have an important question for the experts of SYNTH V.
> I have a huge template and need to decide if one track dedicated to SYNTH V is enough in order to edit all lead vocals, backing vocals and harmonies of a song.
> I have just purchased version 1.6.1 with the new VOCAL MODE PRESETS and in the case of KEVIN's last update the options are now BELT, CLEAR, SOFT and SOLID.
> Let's say I need a softer/airy verse mainly based on the main preset SOFT+CLEAR and a more "powerful" opening chorus/refrain based on the preset BELT+SOLID.
> My question is: in this case *can I switch between main vocal presets* (again, BELT, CLEAR, SOFT and SOLID in the case of Kevin's last update) *in a same single SYNTH V track* (I searched but didn't find any possibilty in the parameter section to pass from SOFT to SOLID through an automation f.e.) OR do you think is better, thinking about the workflow, to have at least two (or more) SYNTH V instances open in a template with independent selection of main vocal presets for faster and efficient workflow? So interested to know your opinion.
> Thank you in advance for your precious help!


Yes, you can do that on the same track using groups. Select a group of notes and right click / merge into group.

Make as many groups as you need, and assign each group different vocal modes and parameters. Rendering time also is reduced by processing only the group you are modifying.


----------



## LTS

Blancanegra said:


> Yes, you can do that on the same track using groups. Select a group of notes and right click / merge into group.
> 
> Make as many groups as you need, and assign each group different vocal modes and parameters. Rendering time also is reduced by processing only the group you are modifying.


Thank you Blancanegra, you are the one. I spent the last hours studying your files


----------



## Blancanegra

LTS said:


> Thank you Blancanegra, you are the one. I spent the last hours studying your files


Aaah, thank you! I'm glad they were helpful. I will keep posting more.


----------



## EJAMES

Hi @Hataori I'm trying to use your scripts and I wonder if you can tell me what I'm doing wrong?  When I select a note (or a few notes) and run the scripts, it seems to apply the changes to _every note_.

I recall you saying something like


> When you move notes around you need to reload the pitch. You can do this for selected notes only (quicker) - simply select the relevant notes and use *Scripts →* *RV Load Pitch (or Alt + X)*


but even if I have notes selected, the scripts seem to affect the whole file (and puts all of the singing out of key). I only downloaded the scripts this week, I'm using the latest update of Synth-V, and the latest update of Solaria.

I *made a quick video* so you can see for yourself (edit: Dropbox seems to default to 'low quality' but it's recorded in HD so you may need to tweak the playback setting)


----------



## Hataori

EJAMES said:


> what I'm doing wrong?


Don't you have the Instant mode button switched on? I don't see it well but it would interfere with the script generating the Pitch deviation automation. It should by switched off and also all default voice "depth" params set to zero (script should zero it). Else everything is added together and it's a mess.


----------



## EJAMES

Hataori said:


> Don't you have the Instant mode button switched on? I don't see it well but it would interfere with the script generating the Pitch deviation automation. It should by switched off and also all default voice "depth" params set to zero (script should zero it). Else everything is added together and it's a mess.


That was my first thought but I tried toggling it on and off without luck.

However, I just tried switching voices, which seemed to fix it. Then, when I changed back to Solaria, it stopped messing up with her, too.

I guess it's possible that if you start with Instant Mode on (which I may have done!), it glitches until you swap the voice. 

Appreciate the reply!


----------



## EJAMES

*Solaria rapping ... *
I recall someone in this thread asking if Synth V voices could rap. I thought that would make a fun challenge for my first Synth V song - some singing followed by some rap. It just about works I think! I've left parts of the rap pretty exposed, musically. Happy for tips on how to improve it.



Thanks again for all the fantastic advice in this thread, particularly for your files @Blancanegra - so useful!

PS If anyone can help me make 'tripping' sound less like 'dripping' that would be very much appreciated - haha.


----------



## Knute5

Crazy question. Has anyone tried using a morph (MMorph in my case) plugin to play with two Synth V voices singing the exact same line (like Solaria and Eleanor Forte, or Kevin and Ryo), in order to create some variety in timbre beyond "gender," "breathiness" and other settings for each individual voice?

I took a stab, morphing Kevin and Ryo. This track alternates Kevin and Kevin/Ryo. Haven't quite aced it, but I like how the morph rounds out Kevin's voice by adding Ryo. Nothing else was changed on the track. See if you hear the difference. (thanks Blancanegra for the file to play with)



This is an Eleanor Forte –> Eleanor/Solaria morph. It alternates between the two. Much more obvious as the Solaria voice cuts through but keeps Eleanor's warmth. (although I can still hear a slight garbled artifact in it for now).


----------



## David Cuny

EJAMES said:


> PS If anyone can help me make 'tripping' sound less like 'dripping' that would be very much appreciated - haha.


Well, */d/* is a voiced */t/*, so the confusion in sounds is normal. If there's something else going on in the music, you can hear that as part of the phoneme's voicing. And in reverse, a percussive attack can mask the voiced part of a sound.

_SynthV_ has a */tr/* phoneme, so you could replace it two phonemes: */t r/*.

In speech, we'll often replace */d r/* with */j r/*, and */t r/* with */ch r/*. So another option is to replace the */tr/* with */ch r/*.

If that's not enough, you can extend the duration of the */ch/* in */ch r/*, and perhaps bump up the attack volume a bit.


----------



## David Cuny

Knute5 said:


> Crazy question. Has anyone tried using a morph (MMorph in my case) plugin to play with two Synth V voices singing the exact same line (like Solaria and Eleanor Forte, or Kevin and Ryo), in order to create some variety in timbre beyond "gender," "breathiness" and other settings for each individual voice?


I've doubled different voices to thicken it a bit. The attack of the aspirated consonants can give away the doubling, so it's useful to be able to split the aspiration from the harmonic portion and only use the harmonic portion on the doubled part.

I remember listening to "Some Other Time" (The Alan Parsons Project) way back when and thinking there was _something_ a bit off about the vocal. It turns out that Peter Straker got the lead, but they used Jaki Whitren's take for the high portion of the chorus. Their voices are already fairly similar, and the shift in register helped.


----------



## EJAMES

David Cuny said:


> Well, */d/* is a voiced */t/*, so the confusion in sounds is normal. If there's something else going on in the music, you can hear that as part of the phoneme's voicing. And in reverse, a percussive attack can mask the voiced part of a sound.
> 
> _SynthV_ has a */tr/* phoneme, so you could replace it two phonemes: */t r/*.
> 
> In speech, we'll often replace */d r/* with */j r/*, and */t r/* with */ch r/*. So another option is to replace the */tr/* with */ch r/*.
> 
> If that's not enough, you can extend the duration of the */ch/* in */ch r/*, and perhaps bump up the attack volume a bit.


Ha, yes normal and rather unfortunate in this case - I'd quite like to avoid people thinking it's 'I'm dripping when I'm all alone' :]

Awesome suggestions. I couldn't get the */t r/* to work even when increasing the strength of the *r*, but */ch r/* is great because it gives the word a transient that 'drip' doesn't have. Also, what you said about clashes made me realise that I could also try offsetting the word slightly, so it doesn't clash with whatever else lands on the beat (or vice-versa). Top reply, thanks!


----------



## EJAMES

Knute5 said:


> Crazy question. Has anyone tried using a morph (MMorph in my case) plugin to play with two Synth V voices singing the exact same line (like Solaria and Eleanor Forte, or Kevin and Ryo), in order to create some variety in timbre beyond "gender," "breathiness" and other settings for each individual voice?


Sounds fun. Does morphing offer any advantage over playing two different voices on simultaneous tracks and then blending/EQing them differently? This is what I did on the 'rap' section of the song I posted yesterday, to lend it a darker tone, but it's definitely good to have more options available if morphing offers something different.


----------



## Blancanegra

Now I'm exploring Kevin's falsetto, which is pleasantly surprising:

Fake plastic trees (Radiohead)
View attachment Fake plastic trees test.mp3


For the soft and calm tone I set soft and clear vocal modes to 100%.
To add melancholy in the interpretation, I used very low values in the strength of the phonemes, which substantially changes the diction.

As usual, attached is the project file with 2 tracks:

Track 1: Imported midi notes, with lyrics. Sounds like any of your non singers friends:
View attachment Fake plastic trees MIDI import.mp3


Track 2: Final result after a bit of chisel and sandpaper. XD

I love the tone of the falsetto breaks in the higher notes (pl*a*stic, r*i*d), where I drew sudden change of pitch bettween notes and added some vibrato, while also turning down the tone shift to get that beautiful timbre change.

I can't judge if the last verse "It wears her out (4x)" is OK at all for your English ears but it sounds better to me than without the corrections I applied in the phonemes strength. What do you think?

Enjoy!


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> I can't judge if the last verse "It wears her out (4x)" is OK at all for your English ears but it sounds better to me than without the corrections I applied in the phonemes strength. What do you think?


Nice work! The falsetto is especially nice here.

I hadn't heard the song before, but my first thought was that _"It wears her out"_ is over-articulated for this sort of pop sound. And checking with the song verifies this - he barely articulates any of the consonants, so it's more like this:

*ih w eh r z er ow dx*

Obviously, that's a bit extreme. 

But I think a slightly more mumbly approach also helps emphasize the exhaustion of the lyrics.

That said... they both sound fine.


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> Nice work! The falsetto is especially nice here.
> 
> I hadn't heard the song before, but my first thought was that _"It wears her out"_ is over-articulated for this sort of pop sound. And checking with the song verifies this - he barely articulates any of the consonants, so it's more like this:
> 
> *ih w eh r z er ow dx*
> 
> Obviously, that's a bit extreme.
> 
> But I think a slightly more mumbly approach also helps emphasize the exhaustion of the lyrics.
> 
> That said... they both sound fine.


Thank you David, I really appreciate your comments!

I agree, I've been conservative because I wasn't too sure about going that far. However, I will try to reduce the vocalization even more.
It's amazing that so many aspects can be easily modified!


----------



## EJAMES

Blancanegra said:


> Now I'm exploring Kevin's falsetto, which is pleasantly surprising


This is amazing! I bought Kevin because of you (you should work on commission!) Currently whenever I try to use him he sounds like I'm stabbing him with a pitchfork, so I think I better download this file and see what magic you're using 
Also, do you mind me asking where you get your backing tracks from?


----------



## parapentep70

EJAMES said:


> This is amazing! I bought Kevin because of you (you should work on commission!) Currently whenever I try to use him he sounds like I'm stabbing him with a pitchfork, so I think I better download this file and see what magic you're using
> Also, do you mind me asking where you get your backing tracks from?


I will do the same for the same reason! Now struggling to write a song good enough for Solaria, I promised to myself that I'll buy Kevin either when it is a very good deal or after I write 3 songs for Solaria.


----------



## Knute5

EJAMES said:


> Sounds fun. Does morphing offer any advantage over playing two different voices on simultaneous tracks and then blending/EQing them differently? This is what I did on the 'rap' section of the song I posted yesterday, to lend it a darker tone, but it's definitely good to have more options available if morphing offers something different.


I think the goal is to sound like one voice with more flexibility rather than stacked voices. Ensuring that the consonants and the inflections match perfectly is a challenge, but doable by simply swapping voices over the same midi/SynthV data, although it seems different voices interpret it differently (I think?)

Solaria is so new, but it's interesting, after hearing so many tracks now that I'm beginning to hear this one familiar woman singing all this music. Besides messing with gender/formants to make her sound more "meaty" I'd simply like to work with a vocal timbre and craft my own "singer" (think of the quad pad in Alchemy and other tools where you can morph sounds) in order to lose some of that familiarity.

It should be subtle if/when it works. Like I said above, I haven't cracked it, but after discovering Synth V (and EmVoice to a lesser extent), I love the ability to sketch but would also like to see if I can't tweak the timbre so as not to always have the same voice, or have to keep buying other voice libraries which I'm sure is great for the library makers, but having a self-contained versatile pool of "singers" would be ideal.


----------



## Blancanegra

EJAMES said:


> This is amazing! I bought Kevin because of you (you should work on commission!) Currently whenever I try to use him he sounds like I'm stabbing him with a pitchfork, so I think I better download this file and see what magic you're using


Thanks! the fact that this tool already exists and to enjoy using it seems like a dream come true.

I enjoy doing the demos ( I learn a lot in the process) and I share them for educational purposes, who knows what surprising things I can hear from other users like you.



EJAMES said:


> Also, do you mind me asking where you get your backing tracks from?


I'm not sure if it's appropriate to answer that question here.


----------



## micrologus

Blancanegra said:


> I enjoy doing the demos ( I learn a lot in the process) and I share them for educational purposes, who knows what surprising things I can hear from other users like you.


Thank you, I very much appreciated


----------



## Swamp Gas

EJAMES said:


> Also, do you mind me asking where you get your backing tracks from?



You can create your own using Spleeter:


----------



## rogierhofboer

Link: https://github.com/deezer/spleeter


----------



## JimDiGritz

EJAMES said:


> Also, do you mind me asking where you get your backing tracks from?


I make my own in MIDI, if I can find a good sheet music arrangement I'll start from there but I'll also refer to the numerous YouTube lessons for guitar, drums, bass and piano parts.


----------



## baggage

JimDiGritz said:


> I make my own in MIDI, if I can find a good sheet music arrangement I'll start from there but I'll also refer to the numerous YouTube lessons for guitar, drums, bass and piano parts.


and of course, there's always biab


----------



## JimDiGritz

baggage said:


> and of course, there's always biab


Biab?


----------



## baggage

JimDiGritz said:


> Biab?


Band in a Box


----------



## Blancanegra

Mouline Rouge is one of my favorite musical movies and I wanted to test Kevin with this song:

Come what may (Ewan McGregor & Nicole Kidman)
View attachment Come what may test.mp3


Pretty cool, I think!
This has been one of the easy and quick demos to do (melodic songs usually are). A bit flat in some notes or with a lack of tension, but things that are easy to fix.
As usual, I attached the project file with 2 tracks:

1- Imported midi with lyrics. Sounds like this:
View attachment Come what may midi import.mp3


2- Edited. Sounds like this:
View attachment Come what may vocals.mp3



Is also posssible to soften the resonant timbre in the chorus part reducing belt or solid vocal modes to match Ewan MacGregor, who sounds more warm and sweet.
I would have also liked to reduce the aspiration of the / t / phonemes, but I haven't had time for that.

Enjoy!


----------



## cloudrunner92

Hello!
I haven't been active here for a while, but wanted to pop in and say that I love, love, love some of the recent examples posted here and I am super impressed. Special thanks to @Blancanegra for also sharing the project files. When I have some time, I'll have to study them, I'm sure there's a lot to learn from.
In the meantime, I've been working on combining my own vocals with Solaria and Kevin and getting some reasonably good results out of that. I think I've found a workflow that works well for me. I import a mixdown of my track including instruments and my vocals into SynthV, then write harmony parts using Solaria and Kevin. Currently, I rely a lot on autotuning with only a few manual edits. Then I render them and take them back into my DAW. There I edit them some more using Melodyne (and, depending on the part, sometimes Vocalign). Finally, I mix them like I would my own vocals, however I am still struggling a bit with overly present /t/ and /s/ that I have a hard time taming with a de-esser. The de-essing tends to be not strong enough OR sound unnatural and remove half of the vocal with it. Maybe the aspiration mentioned above is the key? Besides the de-esser, also Soothe 2 seems to help reduce the overall harshness of SynthV vocals a bit, I think, but it cannot handle the /t/ and /s/ either (or rather, I can't, with these tools at hand 😅).
Anyway, here's a snippet from an upcoming (and yet unfinished) original song, featuring Solaria, Kevin (he doubles me an octave up, very quietly) and myself. Production credits and partial songwriting credits go to my friend who I'm doing this project with. We're hoping to finally finish an EP with 5 songs within the next couple of weeks, some of them at least with a few Solaria background vocals. This is the only place in this particular song that features SynthV, but I have to say, I'm quite happy with the artificial background singers 😁

View attachment InTheAir-Prechorus.mp3


----------



## JimDiGritz

Trying to get Kevin into more grunge and prog rock!



Vocals: SynthV - Kevin
Guitars: Shreddage Hydra
Drums: EZDrummer2
Bass: AmpleSound Free P Bass
Piano: PianoTeq


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

David Cuny said:


> One of the features of the newer AI voices - not available in the Lite versions of the voices - is the ability to sing in Chinese, Japanese or English - no matter what the original language of the singer is. The option is found in the *Voice* panel:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is possible because the neural network has been trained to transform the voice from the original language into the target language.
> 
> Not all the AI voices have been updated to do this, but all the voices sold on the Dreamtonics site have been. For example, the voice provider for _Mo Chen_ is a native Chinese speaker.
> 
> Working with a voice using the trans-lingual option - other than setting the target language - is exactly the same as working with a native voice.
> 
> In the example I posted, there's still a _slight_ an accent to the voice, but it's _much_ better than having the voice provider sing in the target language if they aren't fluent in it. For example, here's the same file sung by *Tsurumaki Maki *(non-AI version). It's an older voicebank, and obviously the voice provider isn't a fluent English singer:
> 
> View attachment Tsurumaki_Maki_(Eng_Lite).mp3
> 
> 
> Here's the same file sung by *Qing Su*, a native Chinese speaker, using the trans-lingual feature:
> 
> View attachment Qing_Su.mp3
> 
> 
> You can hear there's virtually no accent despite the singer not being a native English speaker. In fact, I think the female voices sound better in English than the male trans-lingual voices.


Love that you're quoting The Waste Land there.


----------



## Blancanegra

> O





cloudrunner92 said:


> .... Currently, I rely a lot on autotuning with only a few manual edits. Then I render them and take them back into my DAW. There I edit them some more using Melodyne (and, depending on the part, sometimes Vocalign). Finally, I mix them like I would my own vocals, however I am still struggling a bit with overly present /t/ and /s/ that I have a hard time taming with a de-esser. The de-essing tends to be not strong enough OR sound unnatural and remove half of the vocal with it. Maybe the aspiration mentioned above is the key? Besides the de-esser, also Soothe 2 seems to help reduce the overall harshness of SynthV vocals a bit, I think, but it cannot handle the /t/ and /s/ either (or rather, I can't, with these tools at hand 😅).
> 
> View attachment InTheAir-Prechorus.mp3


I wonder under what circumstances you need to use autotune, as it is possible to fine tune the pitch from the Synthesizer V editor, either by drawing the pitch line by hand or modifying it from the *Note Properties Panel/Pitch*.

I suspect it could be in the pitch valleys that occur between syllables, or maybe when you go up in pitch and the note sounds a bit flat at the beginning?

To control sibilance you can draw valleys in the loudness and/or brightness*** parameters. On soft notes it also helps to reduce the strength of those phonemes. So in the mix you can use lower values in the deesser.

*** In the "Come what may" demo I posted in #1,036 I did that, although not in all occurrences due to lack of time.


----------



## cloudrunner92

Blancanegra said:


> I wonder under what circumstances you need to use autotune, as it is possible to fine tune the pitch from the Synthesizer V editor, either by drawing the pitch line by hand or modifying it from the *Note Properties Panel/Pitch*.


Ahh, my bad. I was actually referring to Auto-Process/Auto Pitch Tuning within SynthV. And the manual edits I mentioned are exactly what you described 🙈
I do sometimes further edit the vocal in Melodyne/Vocalign, mostly because it's faster than doing another roundtrip back and forth between the DAW and SynthV as an external application and it tends to quickly get me the results I want. But then again, I haven't tried using the VST Plugin again lately, which was not creating any audio output on 1.5 for me, maybe now with 1.6 the issue is fixed.
Regarding the sibilance, I'll happily check out your demo, thanks 😊


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Blancanegra said:


> I wonder under what circumstances you need to use autotune, as it is possible to fine tune the pitch from the Synthesizer V editor, either by drawing the pitch line by hand or modifying it from the *Note Properties Panel/Pitch*.


I always autotune my synth v vocals, if I tune them inside synth v it will start sounding robotic sooner than with a slight autotune


----------



## Blancanegra

cloudrunner92 said:


> Ahh, my bad. I was actually referring to Auto-Process/Auto Pitch Tuning within SynthV. And the manual edits I mentioned are exactly what you described 🙈


Oops, I think I missunderstood your words then!


cloudrunner92 said:


> I do sometimes further edit the vocal in Melodyne/Vocalign, mostly because it's faster than doing another roundtrip back and forth between the DAW and SynthV as an external application and it tends to quickly get me the results I want. But then again, I haven't tried using the VST Plugin again lately, which was not creating any audio output on 1.5 for me, maybe now with 1.6 the issue is fixed.
> Regarding the sibilance, I'll happily check out your demo, thanks 😊





AceAudioHQ said:


> I always autotune my synth v vocals, if I tune them inside synth v it will start sounding robotic sooner than with a slight autotune


That's make sense, sometimes it's not worth going back and forth just to make minor or difficult adjustments


----------



## odod

just finished with this cover .. what I love about Synth V it's really fast workflow


----------



## curry36

Blancanegra said:


> Mouline Rouge is one of my favorite musical movies and I wanted to test Kevin with this song:
> 
> Come what may (Ewan McGregor & Nicole Kidman)
> View attachment Come what may test.mp3
> 
> 
> Pretty cool, I think!
> This has been one of the easy and quick demos to do (melodic songs usually are). A bit flat in some notes or with a lack of tension, but things that are easy to fix.
> As usual, I attached the project file with 2 tracks:
> 
> 1- Imported midi with lyrics. Sounds like this:
> View attachment Come what may midi import.mp3
> 
> 
> 2- Edited. Sounds like this:
> View attachment Come what may vocals.mp3
> 
> 
> 
> Is also posssible to soften the resonant timbre in the chorus part reducing belt or solid vocal modes to match Ewan MacGregor, who sounds more warm and sweet.
> I would have also liked to reduce the aspiration of the / t / phonemes, but I haven't had time for that.
> 
> Enjoy!


How long does it generally take you to get from the imported to the edited state?
If the imported demo (1) is how a topline could sound like when I just enter the melody and lyrics - right out of the box - and the edited (2) is the possible final result (pre melodyne) that could be achived in say less than 2 hours after step 1, then I'm going to buy this shit today.


----------



## Blancanegra

curry36 said:


> How long does it generally take you to get from the imported to the edited state?
> If the imported demo (1) is how a topline could sound like when I just enter the melody and lyrics - right out of the box - and the edited (2) is the possible final result (pre melodyne) that could be achived in say less than 2 hours after step 1, then I'm going to buy this shit today.


In this case it took me around 3 hours including the project preparation and MIDI edition. I also dedicate some time tweaking the vocal modes until I find the proper timbre, but the total time spent would depend on your experience, hability and type of song.

I mostly work on this at night, and I waste a lot of time delighting myself by listening over and over again, to polish details.

Why don't you try yourself the software first?
One guy gathered all the information about the voices and the free download or purchase links in one place: *synthesizerv.carrd.co*

Please note that both the editor and the free voices have limited features, but you will get an idea of how to use them.


----------



## Blancanegra

Alternative rock with some falsetto lines, and in crescendo from soft to tense voice along verses.

Somewhere only we know (Keane)
View attachment Somewhere only we know test.mp3


I had some difficulty with some lines but once I fixed them matching phoneme timing and strength (more or less) comparing with the reference track I was able to continue with ease.

Sometimes auto pitch tuning adds unwanted vibrato on long notes. Instead of correcting it by drawing by hand, an easy solution is to split that note in two. Voila, the vibrato is gone.

You can see that on the attached project file on the first verse of the final track (Track1) for the words in bold:

I walked a*cross*
an empty *land*
I knew the pathway like the back of my *hand*

Enjoy!


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

David Cuny said:


> Yes, he can sing in English using the trans-lingual function. Here's short bit that runs *Mo Chen* through some high and low notes:
> 
> View attachment Mo_Chen.mp3
> 
> 
> He's got a touch of accent - you can hear a bit on _"night"_.
> 
> For comparison, here's *Ryo *(native language is Japanese). He's less clear than Mo Chen - note the *t* on _"mountains"_, the *r* in _"read"_, the *i* in _"night"_ and the *g* on _"go":_
> 
> View attachment Ryo.mp3
> 
> 
> And *Kevin *(native language is English) has louder, more resonant sound:
> 
> View attachment Kevin.mp3


Mo Chen's crosslingual English sounds a lot better there than in the few Youtube videos I found. In those he's a lot noisier and sounds less realistic (like a synth emulation):





Guess that can't be explained by updates, or by FX they added?...

There's a brief example of Mo Chen's falsetto around 2:57 of the second video, are there any demos which feature more of his English falsetto? I'm thinking of getting Kevin for his falsetto. But I prefer Mo Chen's timbre---when he doesn't sound too much like a synth / digital noise (not that leaning into that couldn't sound good or interesting, but in those Youtube videos IMO it definitely doesn't)....


----------



## David Cuny

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Mo Chen's crosslingual English sounds a lot better there than in the few Youtube videos I found. In those he's a lot noisier and sounds less realistic (like a synth emulation)


I agree that Mo Chen is noisy. He's also go more of an accent (to my ear) than female trans-lingual voices.

Other factors may be that these songs are faster, more choppy, and have less legato.

Plus, they're longer examples, so you have more chances to hear issues.

My thought is that I'd rather not to use Mo Chen on a lead English vocal, but keep him in the background. But I haven't had that much chance to play with the voice that much, so my opinion could change.

By contrast, I used Qing Su on a song, and after a while forgot that I wasn't working with a native English voice. That wouldn't happen with the current iteration of Mo Chen.

Obviously, the rule here is to trust your own ears. What sounds right to you _is_ right for you.


----------



## curry36

@Blancanegra Thanks for your reply! I'll check out the thread you mentioned!

Meanwhile I did a bit of research and I am SO STUNNED by some Solaria covers that I've found.

Please tell me if it's possible to create own toplines in that quality, or if Synth V needs to analyse a prerecorded vocal to get these results. I wonder how the guys did it in the following examples.

Even though I have experience with vocal editing and am familiar with how a realistic pitch curve should look like (coming from Melodyne), I doubt that I'd be able to program this amount of realism. Not interested in doing covers and also not a good singer for a shitty demo to analyse. My workflow must be pencil and editing only for own demos.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

curry36 said:


> Please tell me if it's possible to create own toplines in that quality, or if Synth V needs to analyse a prerecorded vocal to get these results. I wonder how the guys did it in the following examples.


I think anything you can do with scripts can be done without them, I don’t think the scripts add any functionality that isn’t already there, it’s just lots of work if you want to replicate it without prerecorded vocals


----------



## David Cuny

curry36 said:


> Please tell me if it's possible to create own toplines in that quality, or if Synth V needs to analyse a prerecorded vocal to get these results. I wonder how the guys did it in the following examples.


There is an "auto-tune" feature for AI voices that allows you to auto-generate realistic pitch curves. These are generated by a neural network trained on examples by the voice provider.

These aren't perfect, but it'll get you a pretty close. There are parameters you can adjust for "auto-tune", and even the ability to pick a new random seed and try again.


----------



## PrimeEagle

EJAMES said:


> *Solaria rapping ... *
> I recall someone in this thread asking if Synth V voices could rap. I thought that would make a fun challenge for my first Synth V song - some singing followed by some rap. It just about works I think! I've left parts of the rap pretty exposed, musically. Happy for tips on how to improve it.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again for all the fantastic advice in this thread, particularly for your files @Blancanegra - so useful!
> 
> PS If anyone can help me make 'tripping' sound less like 'dripping' that would be very much appreciated - haha.



That was me! Thanks for posting this, it's better than I would have expected. How did you input the rap?


----------



## raidergale

curry36 said:


> Meanwhile I did a bit of research and I am SO STUNNED by some Solaria covers that I've found.
> 
> Please tell me if it's possible to create own toplines in that quality, or if Synth V needs to analyse a prerecorded vocal to get these results. I wonder how the guys did it in the following examples.
> 
> Even though I have experience with vocal editing and am familiar with how a realistic pitch curve should look like (coming from Melodyne), I doubt that I'd be able to program this amount of realism. Not interested in doing covers and also not a good singer for a shitty demo to analyse. My workflow must be pencil and editing only for own demos.


I can comment on the Toxic and Part of Your World videos, since I made them.
Part of Your World doesn't use any script except for the spoken parts, it's pretty much all Solaria's auto tuning + some manual edits.
Toxic does use Hataori's Real Voice script, but anything it does can _theoretically_ be done manually since it only modifies the pitch curve. So yeah, it is possible to get more realistic results manually, but it all depends on how you edit pitch curves AND it requires tons of patience and trial and error. The script is a "shortcut" because it copies the original singer's pitch curve into SynthV, and while editing is often required it's still a lot faster than doing it manually.


----------



## curry36

raidergale said:


> I can comment on the Toxic and Part of Your World videos, since I made them.
> Part of Your World doesn't use any script except for the spoken parts, it's pretty much all Solaria's auto tuning + some manual edits.
> Toxic does use Hataori's Real Voice script, but anything it does can _theoretically_ be done manually since it only modifies the pitch curve. So yeah, it is possible to get more realistic results manually, but it all depends on how you edit pitch curves AND it requires tons of patience and trial and error. The script is a "shortcut" because it copies the original singer's pitch curve into SynthV, and while editing is often required it's still a lot faster than doing it manually.


Very impressive work! How long did it take you for each? 

When you import a script, do you end up with a template pitch curve to reproduce that exact melody? Or does the software try to analyse how the singer deals with pitching so you could possibly use the script (the pitching style of the singer) for your own melodies as well?


----------



## raidergale

curry36 said:


> Very impressive work! How long did it take you for each?
> 
> When you import a script, do you end up with a template pitch curve to reproduce that exact melody? Or does the software try to analyse how the singer deals with pitching so you could possibly use the script (the pitching style of the singer) for your own melodies as well?


The script uses an external software called Praat, and it analyzes the pitch curve of an acapella file, so it's only useful to recreate the specific song you feed it. It basically makes the pitch curve for you, which you can then export as a text file and import into SynthV using the script.

What you're saying about analyzing the singer's pitching and applying to other melodies is technically what SynthV's auto tuning does, but of course it's trained on a single voice. So for example, in Solaria's case using SynthV's automatic tuning will apply a pitch curve obtained by analyzing the voice provider's, Emma Rowley, style of singing. You can then manually edit the result to your liking or slightly vary results by changing the random seed value, but the starting point will always be based on Emma Rowley's style.

As for how much time it took me... honestly, Part of Your World was relatively quick since it's mostly auto tuning. Toxic took a bit longer because I used the full workflow for Hataori's script, which means manually timing and inputting syllables in Praat, which I find a bit slower than doing that in SynthV. It yields better results though, so it's worth it. 
I'd say it took me anything between 2 to 6 hours? Can't really remember exactly since I didn't time it.


----------



## odod

new voice database is here









An Xiao Voice Database - Dreamtonics Store


An Xiao is a masculine Chinese voice database for Synthesizer V AI. A brand new vocal choice for Chinese songwriters, An Xiao provides a full and bright voice with no lack of passion. With a flexible range that provides high-quality results both in tenor and bass tones, An Xiao is capable of...




store.dreamtonics.com





The voice database has five built-in vocal modes – Airy, Chest, Open, Power, and Soft – to suit the needs of different musicians. With the Synthesizer V Studio Pro editor, creators can fully explore An Xiao’s vocal potential and make detailed adjustments to his vocal tone and technique to suit the genre and style of different musical works.

With Dreamtonics’ leading cross-lingual synthesis technology, An Xiao can also perform lyrics written in English and Japanese with incredible clarity to meet the diverse needs of creators, so international songwriters will also be able to experience An Xiao’s unique charm across language barriers.

I wish I have more money :( ...


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

odod said:


> new voice database is here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Xiao Voice Database - Dreamtonics Store
> 
> 
> An Xiao is a masculine Chinese voice database for Synthesizer V AI. A brand new vocal choice for Chinese songwriters, An Xiao provides a full and bright voice with no lack of passion. With a flexible range that provides high-quality results both in tenor and bass tones, An Xiao is capable of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> store.dreamtonics.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The voice database has five built-in vocal modes – Airy, Chest, Open, Power, and Soft – to suit the needs of different musicians. With the Synthesizer V Studio Pro editor, creators can fully explore An Xiao’s vocal potential and make detailed adjustments to his vocal tone and technique to suit the genre and style of different musical works.
> 
> With Dreamtonics’ leading cross-lingual synthesis technology, An Xiao can also perform lyrics written in English and Japanese with incredible clarity to meet the diverse needs of creators, so international songwriters will also be able to experience An Xiao’s unique charm across language barriers.
> 
> I wish I have more money :( ...


Is his cross-lingual English any less accented? 

For voicebanks developed after they started doing cross-lingual... it seems like they could maybe improve it by recording extra phonemes? Then again I'd expect the machine learning to continue improving, IDK how much of a limiting factor the original recordings are. 

Or maybe they could blend different voices to provide the missing phonemes... as someone already suggested here, something like a slider to morph between voicebanks or vocal characteristics could be fantastic.


----------



## mallux

I've only located one English demo so far... won't post it as it's not mine, but it's on soundcloud (search for an xiao english). Not desperately convincing, but I guess that could just be in the execution. Shame, the Chinese demos sound nice. @madfloyd you were after something a bit more "gruff and masculine"... this might suit.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Wonder if anyone's managed to use FX to make the cross-lingual noisiness sound more aesthetically appealing... either leaning into it (maybe adding noise / saturation / granular FX etc. so it sounds better and more intentional) or reducing or masking it.


----------



## Blancanegra

At first I thought that Kevin's voice would not work, but it's quite convincing:

True (Spandau Ballet)
View attachment True test.mp3


As always, I attached the project file.

If anyone owns An Xiao voice bank, please post something, haha!


----------



## JimDiGritz

Another 80s gem!


Vocals: SynthV - Solaria
Guitars: AmpleSounds
Drums: EZDrummer2
Bass: AmpleSound P Bass
Organ: Analog Labs


----------



## JimDiGritz

Well, I thought I'd take a run at a notoriously difficult/unique vocal performance of Dolores O'Riordan.



Vocals: SynthV - Solaria
Guitars: AmpleSounds PF + Helix
Drums: EZDrummer2
Bass: AmpleSound P Bass
Synth: Analog Labs


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

JimDiGritz said:


> Well, I thought I'd take a run at a notoriously difficult/unique vocal performance of Dolores O'Riordan.
> 
> 
> 
> Vocals: SynthV - Solaria
> Guitars: AmpleSounds PF + Helix
> Drums: EZDrummer2
> Bass: AmpleSound P Bass
> Synth: Analog Labs



Really nice timbres and reverb. Wonder if it could get closer to the timbre and dynamics of the original using match EQ / spectral match / DSM dynamic and spectral matching while still sounding natural enough (... and good)?


----------



## aelwyn

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Is his cross-lingual English any less accented?


It's pretty noticeably accented. Far from indecipherable, but it definitely sounds accented. That said, I only bought it about 5 minutes ago and haven't done more than switch from the Kevin database to the An Xiao database on an existing project.

I will say, however, even on a quick once-over, the vocal modes (chest/power/open/soft/airy) are nice and seem like they could be extremely useful for realism in different ranges and volume levels. I already think the timbre of An Xiao is better than Kevin — if they released a version of An Xiao whose "native tongue" were English, I think it would be pretty stellar.


----------



## pianistje

Great covers from everyone.Truly amazing to hear how much this has surpassed other vocal synths. But could some of you post original songs created from scratch ? I am getting decent results , but still to ‘one dimensional’ compared to the covers that have these clever voice analysis running underneath from the original songs. Hope that make sense. Looking forward to some original SynthV songs from the pro’s here.


----------



## mallux

pianistje said:


> Great covers from everyone.Truly amazing to hear how much this has surpassed other vocal synths. But could some of you post original songs created from scratch ? I am getting decent results , but still to ‘one dimensional’ compared to the covers that have these clever voice analysis running underneath from the original songs. Hope that make sense. Looking forward to some original SynthV songs from the pro’s here.


Well, I almost certainly don't qualify as "pro", but here's an original I did with Solaria, if it helps:


(also has a bit of Ethera Gold Atlantis in the background, and me doing the Elven chanting lol )

There are lots of examples on YT and Soundcloud, if you search for "synthv original" or "solaria original".


----------



## raidergale

I've finally decided to finish the Smooth Criminal cover I posted a work in progress of almost a month ago.
Fast notes can be somewhat troublesome, but Solaria handled them relatively well. Subtitles are probably necessary in some parts, though, unless you're familiar with the song.



If you're curious how long this took me, I had already worked on the song up to 1:26 a month ago, so I had a bit of a head start. But 1:26 to the end of the song + video editing took me around 4h, with breaks. So not too bad, really. Granted, this uses Hataori's script, so most of the tuning was copied from the original singer and only required adjustments. If you want to tune entirely by hand it'd take a lot longer, but I reckon it would take about the same time as it took me to get decent results with SynthV's auto tuning function.


----------



## johe

Been reading this thread and have been convinced to give Synth V a shot - and as someone else put it: I haven’t been this excited working with a plug-in / sample instrument in a long time. I’ve yet to get a grip on this thing but even just painting notes via the piano roll and using the auto-pitch-tuning is giving decent results that sound way better than it would if I tried singing.

The song I’ve attached (kind of a Disney-ish Original)is a very-very first draft, I just put in the notes and did some minor panning. Took me less than an hour. The main voices are Solaria and Mo Chen, with Kevin and Eleanor Forte helping out in the end.


----------



## pianistje

mallux said:


> Well, I almost certainly don't qualify as "pro", but here's an original I did with Solaria, if it helps:
> 
> 
> (also has a bit of Ethera Gold Atlantis in the background, and me doing the Elven chanting lol )
> 
> There are lots of examples on YT and Soundcloud, if you search for "synthv original" or "solaria original".



A Super !! Thanks


----------



## JimDiGritz

pianistje said:


> Great covers from everyone.Truly amazing to hear how much this has surpassed other vocal synths. But could some of you post original songs created from scratch ? I am getting decent results , but still to ‘one dimensional’ compared to the covers that have these clever voice analysis running underneath from the original songs. Hope that make sense. Looking forward to some original SynthV songs from the pro’s here.


Not an original - in fact it's a cover of a cover! But Solaria's voice is pretty exposed in this one and is following a tough vocal performance.



Vocals: SynthV - Solaria
Vibraphone: Analog Labs


----------



## JimDiGritz

has anyone bought either of the new male voicepacks from Dreamtonics?









Homepage - Dreamtonics Store


こちらのストアはご購入後のサポートを含め、すべて英語での対応となります。日本語でのご対応をご希望のお客様は、「AHSダウンロード」をご利用くださいませ。For customers from Japan: Please purchase from AHS Download for localized support. New Products Editor and Bundles English Voices Japanese Voices Chinese Voices




store.dreamtonics.com





I need a man.. ahem well what I mean is Kevin is great but lacks the deeper/rock timbres - the new voices are 'supposed' to be deeper but frankly the demos I've seen are genuinely terrible and the English examples are really heavily accented.

I'd love to hear one of the SynthV pro's get something better out of Mo Chen or An Xiao...


----------



## David Cuny

JimDiGritz said:


> has anyone bought either of the new male voicepacks from Dreamtonics?
> 
> I need a man.. ahem well what I mean is Kevin is great but lacks the deeper/rock timbres - the new voices are 'supposed' to be deeper but frankly the demos I've seen are genuinely terrible and the English examples are really heavily accented.
> 
> I'd love to hear one of the SynthV pro's get something better out of Mo Chen or An Xiao...


You won't find deeper rock timbres from Mo Chen, that's for sure. He's got a very light, soft voice.

Here's_ Mo Chen_ singing "Over the Rainbow", a mixdown straight out of _SynthesizerV_ with standard settings:

View attachment Over the Rainbow ((Mo Chen).mp3


Honestly, I'd given up on being able to use_ Mo Chen_ on any lead English vocals, because he has a lot of pronunciation issues - mostly with *plosive + liquid *combinations like */dr/ and /bl/*.

Long story short, here are the tricks I did to get around them:

*"rain" *changed the duration and strength of the */r/*
*"drops" *changed the duration and strength of the */d/ *and */r/*.
*"clouds"* is */g l ow d z/* and with no *Voicing *on */g/*.
*"dreams" *is */jh er iy m z/* with a very short */er/*.
*"dream"* is */jh r iy m/*.
*"true"* is */ch r ew/*
*"fly"* - and any word with a final */ay/* sound followed by silence - is */f l ay iy/*.
*"blue"* is */p l uw/* with no *Breathiness* on */p/*
*"find" *is */f ay iy n d/*.
(Updated to mention I'd also modified the duration of some consonants)


----------



## David Cuny

I just picked up _An Xiao_.

*TL;DR:* He taps his */r/*, and has a soft voice.

Here's essentially the same file I posted above, with _An Xiao_:

View attachment Over the Rainbow (An Xiao).mp3


I didn't do many changes to it, other than to check to see if the */r/* could be adjusted.

Hopefully they can fix the trans-literation model to correct the */r/*. Otherwise, he's going to be relegated to a background voice. 

I'll also say that since they seem to be trained on the same English model, their voices aren't that dissimilar. So I'm not sure that it makes sense for someone to purchase _An Xiao_ if they already have_ Mo Chen_.


----------



## JimDiGritz

David Cuny said:


> I just picked up _An Xiao_.
> 
> *TL;DR:* He taps his */r/*, and is a soft voice.
> 
> Here's essentially the same file I posted above, with _An Xiao_:
> 
> View attachment Over the Rainbow (An Xiao).mp3
> 
> 
> I didn't do many changes to it, other than to check to see if the */r/* could be adjusted.
> 
> Hopefully they can fix the trans-literation model to correct the */r/*. Otherwise, he's going to be relegated to a background voice.
> 
> I'll also say that since they seem to be trained on the same English model, their voices aren't that dissimilar. So I'm not sure that it makes sense for someone to purchase _An Xiao_ if they already have_ Mo Chen_.


Thanks for this, we seem to have hundreds of teenage voices but no traditional rock/pop voices. Kevin can do some pretty decent soft rock with the right settings and Solaria is great but there's a big gap in the Tenor/Bass range.

I appreciate that SynthV aren't particularly interested in the Western market, so perhaps another voice creator like Solaria will step up?


----------



## David Cuny

JimDiGritz said:


> I appreciate that SynthV aren't particularly interested in the Western market, so perhaps another voice creator like Solaria will step up?


I'm not sure they're disinterested. They've put out two native English voices, and they're a bit tight-lipped about what's in their development pipeline.

That said, Eclipsed Sounds has stated that they are interested in putting out additional voices, including a male voice. And there's plenty of people who have asked for a strong rock male voice.


----------



## JimDiGritz

David Cuny said:


> I'm not sure they're disinterested. They've put out two native English voices, and they're a bit tight-lipped about what's in their development pipeline.
> 
> That said, Eclipsed Sounds has stated that they are interested in putting out additional voices, including a male voice. And there's plenty of people who have asked for a strong rock male voice.


For sure, I mean the software is pretty impeccably localised and they *do* have English voices and Store however the 99% focus on J-Pop, K-Pop and 'Anime' music styles demonstrates a laser focus on the Asian market. That and no European/N. American distributer/store partners shows a lack of interest in building sales outside China/Japan/Korea.

I think I'm being fair here - they are probably a very small dev team and there is clearly a huge demand for synth vocals in that market, it makes sense that the Western market and perhaps more challenging vocal ranges are further down the priority list...


----------



## doctoremmet

How deep / low can Kevin’s voice be forced to go? I’m working on a David Sylvian cover and always hate my own voice. I’m very intrigued and fascinated by this software and am amazed by your demo’s. They sound incredible to me.

The concensus is to get Solaria and Kevin for English lyrics? Or stick with Solaria and wait for a more versatile slightly more tenor / bass male voice? I gather there have been no explocit announcements yet with regard to new voices?


----------



## JimDiGritz

doctoremmet said:


> How deep / low can Kevin’s voice be forced to go? I’m working on a David Sylvian cover and always hate my own voice. I’m very intrigued and fascinated by this software and am amazed by your demo’s. They sound incredible to me.
> 
> The concensus is to get Solaria and Kevin for English lyrics? Or stick with Solaria and wait for a more versatile slightly more tenor / bass male voice? I gather there have been no explocit announcements yet with regard to new voices?


This is one of the better Kevin examples (not mine!!): 

 

- he doesn't get to Draiman's low range but it's pretty convincing.

I'm also waiting for more English male voices - Solaria is fantastic and her range is great as is her versatility.


----------



## doctoremmet

Oh wow, that’s way lower than I’ve heard him before. Thanks Jim, much appreciated.


----------



## JimDiGritz

doctoremmet said:


> Oh wow, that’s way lower than I’ve heard him before. Thanks Jim, much appreciated.


Kevin is actually very good, my challenge is with vocal growls/fry. Kevin can actually go reasonably low but it's very soft & melodic.

Even pushing up the sliders he just can't get aggressive, so most Rock vocals are virtually impossible to recreate. I mean even a mildly energetic "Yeah!!!" is out of his range!

There's a reason that the example above is "The Sound of Silence" rather than "Down with the Sickness"!!!

There's one of 2 reasons why they haven't gone down the growl route (@David Cuny will know the reason!)

1. Technically recreating a growl/vocal fry is too hard
2. The market they are focused on doesn't have a demand for aggressive rock vocals


----------



## doctoremmet

For this cover I’m doing it could work though. (PS: thanks for doing that Massive Attack / Liz Fraser song!)


----------



## JimDiGritz

doctoremmet said:


> For this cover I’m doing it could work though. (PS: thanks for doing that Massive Attack / Liz Fraser song!)



I think that example is well within Kevin's range - Kevin's lower timbre doesn't stand up as well exposed since there's more artifact noise, but that will get lost in the mix as it does in the Disturbed cover


----------



## doctoremmet

Okay… I think that just tipped the scale and I’m excited to go in… thanks again Jim. And Dave and all others who provided such brilliant demo work in this gem of a thread. I have not been this amazed by a piece of music software since I first heard multi samples I guess… that’s been a while.


----------



## JimDiGritz

doctoremmet said:


> Okay… I think that just tipped the scale and I’m excited to go in… thanks again Jim. And Dave and all others who provided such brilliant demo work in this gem of a thread. I have not been this amazed by a piece of music software since I first heard multi samples I guess… that’s been a while.


Yeah, it really is ridiculously fun!


----------



## JimDiGritz

Can anyone more adept at SynthV than me help me out (@David Cuny ?)

I'm trying to recreate the attached "Mm uah" 
View attachment Mmm.mp3


The notes are pretty straightforward (Starts on a D, up to E and then down to B), however I'm struggling with the actual Phonemes.






I'm using Solaria and Mm / m / or Hmm / hh ax m / etc are way off!

Any suggestions???


----------



## mallux

Interesting challenge! Might have a go at this later. Sounds like a glottal stop (cl) after the first mm for a start?


----------



## David Cuny

It sound like *mallux* has got the core problem - the initial glottal closure is likely to be your issue.

You can use any phoneme you want for the initial attack, and then devoice it by zeroing the *Voicing* parameter in the timeline, and change the aspiration with the *Breathiness* parameter (also in the timeline).

So you might try using */.g m/* and playing with the *Voicing* and *Breathiness*. In addition to modifying the phoneme *Strength* and *Duration* in the *Note Properties *panel, you can try writing */.g m m m m m m m m m/* if you want a lot more */m/*.

You might also want to use just two notes, and draw in the pitch in the *Pitch* parameter timeline, as it'll give you better control over the pitch.


----------



## JimDiGritz

David Cuny said:


> It sound like *mallux* has got the core problem - the initial glottal closure is likely to be your issue.
> 
> You can use any phoneme you want for the initial attack, and then devoice it by zeroing the *Voicing* parameter in the timeline, and change the aspiration with the *Breathiness* parameter (also in the timeline).
> 
> So you might try using */.g m/* and playing with the *Voicing* and *Breathiness*. In addition to modifying the phoneme *Strength* and *Duration* in the *Note Properties *panel, you can try writing */.g m m m m m m m m m/* if you want a lot more */m/*.
> 
> You might also want to use just two notes, and draw in the pitch in the *Pitch* parameter timeline, as it'll give you better control over the pitch.


really appreciate the help, but I'm not quite figuring this out!

Here's the project view





I've tried Breathiness at a few settings, but Zeroing Voicing just seems to leave the 'aspirant' sound like breathing, so I dropped it to maybe 25% (there's no numerical value hidden anywhere?)

Oddly I don't get much of a Glottal closure on the first note, but the 2nd is pronounced.

Here's what it sounds like:


----------



## JimDiGritz

This is getting closer!


----------



## David Cuny

JimDiGritz said:


> I've tried Breathiness at a few settings, but Zeroing Voicing just seems to leave the 'aspirant' sound like breathing, so I dropped it to maybe 25% (there's no numerical value hidden anywhere?)


You're adjusting the *Breathiness* and *Voicing *in the *Parameters* timeline, not the *Voice*, right?


----------



## JimDiGritz

David Cuny said:


> You're adjusting the *Breathiness* and *Voicing *in the *Parameters* timeline, not the *Voice*, right?


Correct - you should just be able to make out the line in the background of the Voicing Parameter showing Breathiness in my screenshot!


----------



## David Cuny

JimDiGritz said:


> Correct - you should just be able to make out the line in the background of the Voicing Parameter showing Breathiness in my screenshot!


Yes, I saw that.

It's the IT guy in me. I just thought it would be better to ask even though it was staring me in my face and look like an idiot, instead of _not _asking and actually being more of an idiot that I usually am. 

At this point, you've got more knowledge than me. So... welcome to the bleeding edge!


----------



## JimDiGritz

David Cuny said:


> Yes, I saw that.
> 
> It's the IT guy in me. I just thought it would be better to ask even though it was staring me in my face and look like an idiot, instead of _not _asking and actually being more of an idiot that I usually am.
> 
> At this point, you've got more knowledge than me. So... welcome to the bleeding edge!


Thanks, you've actually really helped (+ h/t to @mallux). 

I also realised that I'd missed the Voicing parameter until now - so I have another tool in the kitbag!


----------



## mallux

I did have a go earlier, inserting a “sil” between two m’s sounded better to my ears… a bit more subtle than a full-on glottal.

But maybe Solaria just doesn’t have the attack needed to pull off that first syllable… EclipsedSounds said they are close to releasing an update with vocal modes, so we’ll have more levers to pull soon!


----------



## JimDiGritz

Vocals: SynthV - Solaria
Guitars: AmpleSounds M
Drums: EZDrummer2
Bass: AmpleSound P Bass
Strings Pad: Arturia Augmented Strings Intro
Rhodes & Synth Bass: Analog Labs

Thanks to @David Cuny & @mallux for the tips for the beginning - I ended up burying it in the mix, but then it's not that loud in the original!


----------



## berndfri

Sounds amazing! I want to see Solaria in concert. Wonder what she'd wear.


----------



## Knute5

Used Solaria, Kevin, Ryo and Eleanor in an a capella choir sketch for a devotional piece. Was also able to export out the midi from SynthV into Dorico and generate the sheet music. And finally, the stems of each part will make it much easier to teach singers the song. Very happy to have this very powerful tool not only to satisfy my own needs, but to provide choral directors and producers with complete materials for selection and rehearsal.


----------



## bvaughn0402

I finally dove in and bought Kevin (first one). What should be a “must have” next … Solaria?


----------



## Knute5

bvaughn0402 said:


> I finally dove in and bought Kevin (first one). What should be a “must have” next … Solaria?


Yup, Solaria. Now if only I could get Bonnie Raitt into Synth V...


----------



## ScarletJerry

If you purchase Solaria first, you don’t need to buy Synth V, correct? After trying it out, the I plan to get Kevin and Synth V Pro. Does that make sense?


----------



## David Cuny

ScarletJerry said:


> If you purchase Solaria first, you don’t need to buy Synth V, correct? After trying it out, the I plan to get Kevin and Synth V Pro. Does that make sense?


There's a free "Basic" version of SynthV you can use Solaria with.

There's even a free "Lite" version of Solaria.


----------



## ScarletJerry

Love the idea of a lite version, but is it safe to download? From a Google Drive?


----------



## David Cuny

ScarletJerry said:


> Love the idea of a lite version, but is it safe to download? From a Google Drive?


Yes, excellent question.

The links were from the Anicute website and the Eclipsed Sounds website, so they're legit.


----------



## ScarletJerry

David Cuny said:


> Yes, excellent question.
> 
> The links were from the Anicute website and the Eclipsed Sounds website, so they're legit.


Thanks!


----------



## Sat9

God I wish I didn't find this thread...I might spend more money in the future then I hoped for.
Did a little 2h doodle with the free Solaria version. I mean...I see the potential. What I'm wondering is if there is a big difference in both the free version of Synth V and in the free voicebanks vs the pro/paid versions? Please say no so I don't have to buy anything .


----------



## giwro

Sat9 said:


> God I wish I didn't find this thread...I might spend more money in the future then I hoped for.
> Did a little 2h doodle with the free Solaria version. I mean...I see the potential. What I'm wondering is if there is a big difference in both the free version of Synth V and in the free voicebanks vs the pro/paid versions? Please say no so I don't have to buy anything .


Grab yer wallet.

My experience was that the paid/pro was so much better that it is really possible to get a realistic/quality/believable end result… and lots of control, also….

If it makes you feel any better, my wallet took the hit


----------



## Trash Panda

Sat9 said:


> God I wish I didn't find this thread...I might spend more money in the future then I hoped for.
> Did a little 2h doodle with the free Solaria version. I mean...I see the potential. What I'm wondering is if there is a big difference in both the free version of Synth V and in the free voicebanks vs the pro/paid versions? Please say no so I don't have to buy anything .


I am afraid there is no help for your wallet in this regard.


----------



## David Cuny

Sat9 said:


> What I'm wondering is if there is a big difference in both the free version of Synth V and in the free voicebanks vs the pro/paid versions?


If you're planning to use it for commercial use, you'll need to buy the commercial editor and voices, per the licenses.

Otherwise... is what you're hearing good enough for your intended purpose? You don't need better than that to prototype vocals - they just need to be in the general ballpark.

If money is an issue - and it is, given your question - you might hold off and spend more time with the software, to make sure it's a good fit for you. It'll give you more time to decide if you really need it or not. If you find there are things that the full version does which you can't live without... well, start saving money.


----------



## Knute5

Question/Frustration re the SynthV plugin. Standalone is fine, great. But when I use the AU plugin in Logic, the notes are ULTRA sensitive. Clicking to select routinely knocks them out of sync where I get the "SIL" gap or the muted green muted note. Just me, or is there a preference/setup I can use to avoid this? Again, not an issue at all in the standalone. Thanks.
[solved]
Snap is the culprit. I need to turn OFF snap, as I recorded the melody on a keyboard with some swing to it. Every time I selected a note it snapped to the 1/32 increment and tossed things out of sync.


----------



## Knute5

A track with Solaria and a Synth V as a plugin. I'm having some struggles with plosives "P" and "T" in a few places where even adjusting the emphasis sliders isn't quite cutting it. But it's an innocent song that I think fits Solaria well.


----------



## David Cuny

Knute5 said:


> I'm having some struggles with plosives "P" and "T" in a few places where even adjusting the emphasis sliders isn't quite cutting it.


One of the reasons I use the stand-alone version is because there's an option in the *Render* panel of the that allows rendering the aspiration out to a separate file:






That makes it a lot simpler to adjust the plosives and fricatives in your DAW without impacting the voiced part of the sound.


----------



## Knute5

David Cuny said:


> One of the reasons I use the stand-alone version is because there's an option in the *Render* panel of the that allows rendering the aspiration out to a separate file:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That makes it a lot simpler to adjust the plosives and fricatives in your DAW without impacting the voiced part of the sound.


Hmm, so if I pulled this into the standalone, rendered out the plosives file and overlayed in Logic ... getting late here but will try that tomorrow. Thanks, David. This forum thread is golden...


----------



## Tim_Wells

Does anyone know what the usable, decent sounding range of Kevin is?

I'm particularly interested in his lower notes. I wonder how low he can sing before he sounds wonky. TIA.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Wondering how Kevin's falsetto works---audio example had him going to falsetto at A4 I think. Guess it's not affected by much vocal modes or "gender"? No falsetto on / falsetto off parameter, falsetto- pharyngeal voice balance etc.? Definitely sounds better than my falsetto, but what I tend to do in those registers is more pharyngeal scream I think, unless I'm yodeling or hooting or whatever. Ideally I'd morph my voice with his for greater emotional expression. Still reluctant to pull the trigger, especially if a male voice bank I like more eventually comes out, or there's ever a significant sale (doesn't seem likely? IDK).


----------



## jbuhler

I've been following this thread for months, and am about ready to buy in.

So just to be clear, I buy studio and a voice here: https://store.dreamtonics.com/product/bundle-editor-vdb/
Then get Solaria here: https://www.eclipsedsounds.com/shop
And other voices are collated here: https://synthesizerv.carrd.co/

There's some discussion in the thread about scripts. 
@Hataori's Real Voice script: https://github.com/hataori-p/real-voice (requires Praat)
Praat is available here: https://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/

Any other scripts one should know about?


----------



## doctoremmet

jbuhler said:


> So just to be clear, I buy studio and a voice here: https://store.dreamtonics.com/product/bundle-editor-vdb/
> Then get Solaria here: https://www.eclipsedsounds.com/shop
> And other voices are collated here: https://synthesizerv.carrd.co/


Correct Jim. I just bought the Pro software + Solaria. It is amazing.


----------



## Markrs

doctoremmet said:


> Correct Jim. I just bought the Pro software + Solaria. It is amazing.


Look forwards to your thoughts on this Temme. I have followed this thread since the beginning, and been massively impressed. However, resisted getting it as the last thing I needed was another rabbit hole to go through 😂


----------



## doctoremmet

Hi Mark. Congratulations by the way. Cool to watch you win yesterday!

I know what you’re saying, but THIS is truly mind blowing / a paradigm shifting event. For me at least. To be able to add very convincing vocals to my songs is a dream come true.

I’m working on a cover version of a jazzy 4hero classic and all I can say is… I am blown away. Here’s a teaser of the backing track I did. I am currently in the process of getting a grasp of how Synth V works. But even the silly first results are better than most vocals I ever recorded  / as soon as I have something that isn’t half bad I’ll update the link below and let you know. In this version I haven’t rendered any vocals yet.

To be continued. Again, huge thanks to some of the pioneers in this thread. This instrument has me excited.









4hero cover | drum 'n bass | Synth V Solaria | 8Dio Deep Studio Quartet |(work in progress)


4Hero cover - drum 'n bass featuring Synthesizer V SOLARIA and a whole lot of 8Dio instruments WORK IN PROGRESS! Drums: 8Dio Blackbird Bass: Modwheel The Lowdown + 8Dio Basstard Stringy noises: 8




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


----------



## Evans

Truly one of the most helpful threads I've ever read on VI-Control.


----------



## Markrs

doctoremmet said:


> Hi Mark. Congratulations by the way. Cool to watch you win yesterday!
> 
> I know what you’re saying, but THIS is truly mind blowing / a paradigm shifting event. For me at least. To be able to add very convincing vocals to my songs is a dream come true.
> 
> I’m working on a cover version of a jazzy 4hero classic and all I can say is… I am blown away. Here’s a teaser of the backing track I did. I am currently in the process of getting a grasp of how Synth V works. But even the silly first results are better than most vocals I ever recorded  / as soon as I have something that isn’t half bad I’ll update the link below and let you know. In this version I haven’t rendered any vocals yet.
> 
> To be continued. Again, huge thanks to some of the pioneers in this thread. This instrument has me excited.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4hero cover | drum 'n bass | Synth V Solaria | 8Dio Deep Studio Quartet |(work in progress)
> 
> 
> 4Hero cover - drum 'n bass featuring Synthesizer V SOLARIA and a whole lot of 8Dio instruments WORK IN PROGRESS! Drums: 8Dio Blackbird Bass: Modwheel The Lowdown + 8Dio Basstard Stringy noises: 8
> 
> 
> 
> 
> soundcloud.app.goo.gl


Excellent work Temme! The Deep solo studio quartet sounds fantastic.


----------



## Markrs

Evans said:


> Truly one of the most helpful threads I've ever read on VI-Control.


This thread is almost like a mini forum in how much info is in here and all the new people that have come onto VI-C just to contribute to this thread. There is also a facebook group for Synth V, but this thread is so much better than that!


----------



## jbuhler

Markrs said:


> Look forwards to your thoughts on this Temme. I have followed this thread since the beginning, and been massively impressed. However, resisted getting it as the last thing I needed was another rabbit hole to go through 😂


VIs present nothing but rabbit holes so it’s just a question of which to jump through.


----------



## jbuhler

Markrs said:


> This thread is almost like a mini forum in how much info is in here and all the new people that have come onto VI-C just to contribute to this thread. There is also a facebook group for Synth V, but this thread is so much better than that!


Also not on FB, Which I left back in 2011.


----------



## JimDiGritz

I posted this on the Members Mockups thread - but in case this is useful/interesting to the SynthV crowd:



I'm not happy with my MIDI backing, it was rushed and I kinda just wanted to get it finished...


----------



## Chungus

I've been keeping an eye on this for a while. Am I right that there's a demo version that I can try?


----------



## David Cuny

Chungus said:


> I've been keeping an eye on this for a while. Am I right that there's a demo version that I can try?


Yes.


----------



## Chungus

David Cuny said:


> Yes.


Thanks. But, and forgive the noob question, how do I install this?


----------



## David Cuny

Chungus said:


> Thanks. But, and forgive the noob question, how do I install this?


To install *Synthesizer V Basic Studio*, select the installer that goes with your operating system:

The Macintosh version uses the *.dpkg*
The Windows version uses the *.exe*
The Linux version is the *.zip*
To install the voice file, open the *Synthesizer V Basic Studio *application and drag and drop the *.svpk* voicebank onto the window.

Be sure to watch the video tutorial on how to use the software.


----------



## Chungus

David Cuny said:


> To install *Synthesizer V Basic Studio*, select the installer that goes with your operating system:
> 
> The Macintosh version uses the *.dpkg*
> The Windows version uses the *.exe*
> The Linux version is the *.zip*
> To install the voice file, open the *Synthesizer V Basic Studio *application and drag and drop the *.svpk* voicebank onto the window.
> 
> Be sure to watch the video tutorial on how to use the software.


Alright. Installed the basic studio, but I can't seem to drop the voicebank in it like you said. When trying, it displays a black 🚫 symbol. I tried pasting the .svpk in various places of the Synth V folder instead, but that doesn't get it to load, either.

Any ideas?


----------



## Blancanegra

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Wondering how Kevin's falsetto works---audio example had him going to falsetto at A4 I think. Guess it's not affected by much vocal modes or "gender"? No falsetto on / falsetto off parameter, falsetto- pharyngeal voice balance etc.? Definitely sounds better than my falsetto, but what I tend to do in those registers is more pharyngeal scream I think, unless I'm yodeling or hooting or whatever. Ideally I'd morph my voice with his for greater emotional expression. Still reluctant to pull the trigger, especially if a male voice bank I like more eventually comes out, or there's ever a significant sale (doesn't seem likely? IDK).


There is no on off button. Depending on the Vocal Mode, Note Tension, and Tone Shift settings, you can achieve falsetto or mix between chest and head registers at different pitches. The lowest I remember is F#4 on the word "heels" from the "True" demo:



Blancanegra said:


> True (Spandau Ballet)
> View attachment True test.mp3


I don't think they will offer more of a discount than what already exists when buying the editor together with a voice bank. They are a small and tight team, so it is impossible to know what they are going to release next.

The results are so acceptably good that it is possible that some well-known sample company will dare to release their own voices, as ZeroG did with the Prima soprano voice for Vocaloid.

A new era has begun and it's going to be so much fun and exciting to see how it evolves!


----------



## doctoremmet

The rabbithole is real.... (but FUN)

> extracting vocal stems from an original recording (OMG, Spectralayers Pro is amazing)
> cleaning up the last remaining noisy bits (mainly drums) with Waves Clarity (ridiculously good software)
> now let's pay my Dutch university colleagues of UVA a visit and fire up Praat for the first time...

TO BE CONTINUED






Added:

Yes, that PRAAT software program is a most excellent analysis tool. Such fun.


----------



## Tim_Wells

This is a re-post to see if I get a response.

"Does anyone know what the usable range of Kevin is?

I'm particularly interested in his lower notes. I wonder how low he can sing before he sounds wonky. TIA."


----------



## RMatute

Blancanegra said:


> There is no on off button. Depending on the Vocal Mode, Note Tension, and Tone Shift settings, you can achieve falsetto or mix between chest and head registers at different pitches. The lowest I remember is F#4 on the word "heels" from the "True" demo:
> 
> 
> I don't think they will offer more of a discount than what already exists when buying the editor together with a voice bank. They are a small and tight team, so it is impossible to know what they are going to release next.
> 
> The results are so acceptably good that it is possible that some well-known sample company will dare to release their own voices, as ZeroG did with the Prima soprano voice for Vocaloid.
> 
> A new era has begun and it's going to be so much fun and exciting to see how it evolves!


"Shift settings, you can achieve falsetto or mix between chest and head registers at different pitches."

I wish it were that easy with my physical voice!


----------



## Blancanegra

Tim_Wells said:


> This is a re-post to see if I get a response.
> 
> "Does anyone know what the usable range of Kevin is?
> 
> I'm particularly interested in his lower notes. I wonder how low he can sing before he sounds wonky. TIA."


On the demos I did, G2-C3 in "Come what may", B4 in "Don't stop believing" and D#5-G5 in "She's gone".


Blancanegra said:


> Mouline Rouge is one of my favorite musical movies and I wanted to test Kevin with this song:
> 
> Come what may (Ewan McGregor & Nicole Kidman)
> View attachment Come what may test.mp3
> 
> 
> Pretty cool, I think!
> This has been one of the easy and quick demos to do (melodic songs usually are). A bit flat in some notes or with a lack of tension, but things that are easy to fix.
> As usual, I attached the project file with 2 tracks:
> 
> 1- Imported midi with lyrics. Sounds like this:
> View attachment Come what may midi import.mp3
> 
> 
> 2- Edited. Sounds like this:
> View attachment Come what may vocals.mp3





Blancanegra said:


> Don't stop believing (Journey)
> View attachment Don't stop believing test.mp3





Blancanegra said:


> I tried "She's gone" from Steelheart in the original key (high note is G5) but when notes are out of tune in the chorus it sounds kinda funny, like in the real thing, haha!
> 
> She's gone - original key
> View attachment She's gone test.mp3


Note that timbre qualities varies quite a bit according to the vocal modes (belt, soft, etc) and the tension settings.

Now I feel the need to test Josh Turner "Your man", haha!


----------



## David Cuny

Chungus said:


> Alright. Installed the basic studio, but I can't seem to drop the voicebank in it like you said. When trying, it displays a black 🚫 symbol. I tried pasting the .svpk in various places of the Synth V folder instead, but that doesn't get it to load, either.
> 
> Any ideas?


I'm not using the Basic version, so I can't duplicate the problem.

You might try installing the Basic Studio from this link instead.

If you don't get an answer here, I'll suggest you post the same questions to the Synthesizer V User Forum. Be aware that people on the forum are just plain old users, not the company.

Be sure to post what version of the software and voicebank you're using, as well as what OS you're running, and the voicebank you're trying to load.


----------



## Blancanegra

doctoremmet said:


> The rabbithole is real.... (but FUN)
> 
> > extracting vocal stems from an original recording (OMG, Spectralayers Pro is amazing)
> > cleaning up the last remaining noisy bits (mainly drums) with Waves Clarity (ridiculously good software)
> > now let's pay my Dutch university colleagues of UVA a visit and fire up Praat for the first time...
> 
> TO BE CONTINUED
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Added:
> 
> Yes, that PRAAT software program is a most excellent analysis tool. Such fun.


Maybe you should do the editing by syllables, less work for later if you need to edit the phonemes or make adjustments in the editor.


----------



## doctoremmet

Blancanegra said:


> Maybe you should do the editing by syllables, less work for later if you need to edit the phonemes or make adjustments in the editor.


Ah gotcha. So cut the words up in even smaller slices?

“prevails” should become “pre” and “vails”?
Or rather… maybe “prah” and “vails” 

I am just diving in head-first without a clue what I’m actually doing of course.

Quick question on the topic of Praat: is there a way to save a “project”, so I can come back to it at a later moment and change things around / a way of “versioning”?

Many thanks!


----------



## raidergale

doctoremmet said:


> Ah gotcha. So cut the words up in even smaller slices?
> 
> “prevails” should become “pre” and “vails”?
> Or rather… maybe “prah” and “vails”
> 
> I am just diving in head-first without a clue what I’m actually doing of course.
> 
> Quick question on the topic of Praat: is there a way to save a “project”, so I can come back to it at a later moment and change things around / a way of “versioning”?
> 
> Many thanks!


For the "prevails" example, I'd just do "prevails" on the first syllable and "+" on the second. This will result in a "p r ih" sound on the first note and a "v ey l z" sound on the second one.
Since you'll import the textgrid in SynthV later you can just use the full SynthV notation (so "+" to split syllables in multiple notes and "-" to stretch syllables in multiple notes).

As for saving a project in Praat, I usually just save the textgrid file as a short text file like Hataori's tutorial suggests, even if it's not finished. You can then reopen the vocal file + the textgrid text file in Praat whenever you want.

Here's an example of the syllable division:


----------



## doctoremmet

raidergale said:


> Here's an example of the syllable division:


Ah excellent, so you're applying the Synth V syntax as it were IN the .txt file in PRAAT. Very smart.

I think I may need to rethink my current "let's dive in right away" behaviour and study the manual a bit more! 

Is there some sort of list or cheat sheet that contains all (or the most used) symbols (like + and -)? What do the .sil and .n signify in that picture you posted for example?


----------



## Fa

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Really nice timbres and reverb. Wonder if it could get closer to the timbre and dynamics of the original using match EQ / spectral match / DSM dynamic and spectral matching while still sounding natural enough (... and good)?


my attmpts to spectral match of SynthV output were not very succesful (sounds like it compromises the balance of harmonics and noise some how, making it more synthy). But it's more about resolution of the match: hi-res sounds synthy, low res (let's say an auto-eQ) sounds good (less close to the original identity, but still close to the original colour).


----------



## raidergale

doctoremmet said:


> Ah excellent, so you're applying the Synth V syntax as it were IN the .txt file in PRAAT. Very smart.
> 
> I think I may need to rethink my current "let's dive in right away" behaviour and study the manual a bit more!
> 
> Is there some sort of list or cheat sheet that contains all (or the most used) symbols (like + and -)? What do the .sil and .n signify in that picture you posted for example?


Anything with a "." beforehand is a direct phoneme input in SynthV. So for example typing ".th r iy" is a direct phoneme input for "three". So in the picture that ".n" is just an "n" sound. "sil" isn't really necessary there, but it technically means "silence", so it's a blank sound.
In general you want to know "+" and "-", which I explained earlier, and maybe " ' ", which if put before a word adds a glottal stop. The phoneme for a glottal stop effect is "cl", if you want to manually put it between sounds. So inputting something like " 'I " will result in "cl ay" phonemes, and a glottal stop before the "I" diphthong.


----------



## Chungus

David Cuny said:


> I'm not using the Basic version, so I can't duplicate the problem.
> 
> You might try installing the Basic Studio from this link instead.
> 
> If you don't get an answer here, I'll suggest you post the same questions to the Synthesizer V User Forum. Be aware that people on the forum are just plain old users, not the company.
> 
> Be sure to post what version of the software and voicebank you're using, as well as what OS you're running, and the voicebank you're trying to load.


Alright, that did the trick. One problem solved, only for several more to come up.

Mainly, how do I run it as a VST in my DAW? I have the .dll that came with the old installer in the vst folder, but that one requires it to be linked with a host; a function which this latest version doesn't seem to have(?) And no new .dll file has been installed, as far as I can tell.

Also, in stand-alone mode, the plug-in doesn't play when clicked on the button.
This is how things are looking:


----------



## doctoremmet

@raidergale Your help is much appreciated. Very valuable tips indeed. Thank you very much ❤️


----------



## David Cuny

Chungus said:


> Mainly, how do I run it as a VST in my DAW?


It appears from this site that the VSTi isn't available in the Basic version.

I tried to find something on the Dreamtonics website, but their website is a hot mess.



Chungus said:


> Also, in stand-alone mode, the plug-in doesn't play when clicked on the button.


That sounds like a configuration issue. 

Look in the Settings panel:






Are the values sensible for your machine?






It could be that the device that's selected is already in use by another application on your computer. Or perhaps it's selected the wrong device.


----------



## Chungus

David Cuny said:


> It appears from this site that the VSTi isn't available in the Basic version.
> 
> I tried to find something on the Dreamtonics website, but their website is a hot mess.
> 
> 
> It could be that the device that's selected is already in use by another application on your computer. Or perhaps it's selected the wrong device.


Fixed! The issue was that I had my DAW and the stand-alone open at the same time. SynthV didn't like that, it seems.

Anyway, that a vst version isn't available for the demo seems kinda silly. Ideally, I'd like to know if something will actually play well with my DAW before paying for it. lol. Still, after some noodling, I'll just take the risk and go for it. Worst case scenario, I'll bounce things out to audio and import that into the DAW.

Thanks, my man. You've been most helpful. :D

Edit: Wait, defuq's this? I can't pay with Paypal on the Dreamtonic site? Ugh. There goes that plan, I guess. -_-


----------



## doctoremmet

So here's an update. This still needs a LOT of work. I'm having timing issues and am struggling with a lot of other things. But considering this is my first ever render of a Solaria voiced track, I can only say I am extremely pleased haha. Keep in mind this is very much a test project and there will likely be many iterations before it will actually sound remotely musical.






Original song (for reference):



My vocal render:

View attachment Vocal render solo.mp3


Added to a couple of bars of my Ableton Live project (warning: completely unmixed). You'll immediately hear timing issues. This is me doing something wrong in syncing up note starts on the Synth V grid I gather.

View attachment First ever vocal render - rough mix with timing issues.mp3


Well... I promised @Markrs to keep him up to date


----------



## Vardaro

This is all very exciting. I am impressd by the polyvalent side to Eleanor's and Ken's voices.
I want to try classical mockups of British English. Has anyone tried or managed this.
Not to mention French...


----------



## Tim_Wells

Blancanegra said:


> On the demos I did, G2-C3 in "Come what may", B4 in "Don't stop believing" and D#5-G5 in "She's gone".
> 
> Note that timbre qualities varies quite a bit according to the vocal modes (belt, soft, etc) and the tension settings.
> 
> Now I feel the need to test Josh Turner "Your man", haha!


Thanks for the response, @Blancanegra ♥️ Your demos sound fantastic, by-the-way.

G2 is not terribly low. It's not unusual for me to hit a A1 or B1. If you ever feel inclined to do a Josh Turner tune (or similar) it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again!


----------



## freecham

a little test in french with solaria : it looks a bit like Josephine Baker for the accent !

View attachment HymneALamour_SynthV.mp3


----------



## Blancanegra

Tim_Wells said:


> Thanks for the response, @Blancanegra ♥️ Your demos sound fantastic, by-the-way.
> 
> G2 is not terribly low. It's not unusual for me to hit a A1 or B1. If you ever feel inclined to do a Josh Turner tune (or similar) it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again!


Yesterday I tried Josh Turner "Your man" but sounds odd. Going lower than C3 with Kevin is not a good choice, maybe you need a baritone voice.



Vardaro said:


> This is all very exciting. I am impressd by the polyvalent side to Eleanor's and Ken's voices.
> I want to try classical mockups of British English. Has anyone tried or managed this.
> Not to mention French...


There are no classical or opera voice banks at the moment, but a lot of people is interested.
Meanwhile I tried yesterday with Les Misérables "Bring him home" with Kevin but without mimicking the style of any particular singer.

Bring him home (Les Misérables)
View attachment Bring him home test.mp3


Vibratos are edited with the vibrato options in the Note properties panel, but adjusting first the autopitch tuning improvisation to low values.


----------



## Tim_Wells

Blancanegra said:


> Yesterday I tried Josh Turner "Your man" but sounds odd. Going lower than C3 with Kevin is not a good choice, maybe you need a baritone voice.


Thanks! I wonder if were working from the same scale numbers. On "Come What May" (Ewan McGregor & Nicole Kidman) I had the male part going down to a G1 on the "until". I apologize if I'm using the wrong scale numbers.

Anyway... if I'm not mistaken. This would work for me.


----------



## David Cuny

Chungus said:


> Edit: Wait, defuq's this? I can't pay with Paypal on the Dreamtonic site? Ugh. There goes that plan, I guess. -_-


It's your choice, but you don't have a credit card or debit card? There are lots of shops that don't take PayPal.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

How high can Kevin's falsetto go and still sound good? I'm trying to decide whether it would be better to try to improve my own falsetto, and get a female voice bank instead (or wait for a new English male voice I like more, or improvements in cross-lingual).


----------



## mscp

I have it. It's amazing! (すばらしい!)


----------



## Chungus

David Cuny said:


> It's your choice, but you don't have a credit card or debit card? There are lots of shops that don't take PayPal.


I didn't, but after looking around a bit, I learned of a virtual credit card. Using that... didn't go off without a hitch, something which I'm very much not looking forward to try and correct. But hey, I'm now a owner of SynthV Pro. :D


----------



## Blancanegra

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> How high can Kevin's falsetto go and still sound good? I'm trying to decide whether it would be better to try to improve my own falsetto, and get a female voice bank instead (or wait for a new English male voice I like more, or improvements in cross-lingual).


I think D#5 is into the safe zone, but to be sure the ideal would be to try in context with a known song with falsetto parts that reaches so high. Right now none come to mind, do you know any? (Not Bee Gees XD).


----------



## doctoremmet

Prince - Kiss?


----------



## Blancanegra

doctoremmet said:


> Prince - Kiss?


Precisely songs like that are the opposite of what I would recommend to try, the editing is crazy (stacattos, pitch bends everywhere...)

To show a voice I think it's better to use melodic songs, with sustained and long notes (±90% of singing are vowels). Plus, it makes editing easy. Right now the chorus of "Get lucky" (Daft Punk) comes to mind.


----------



## JimDiGritz

Another Solaria track:



Never thought the default "La" would get so much use!! 

Vocals: SynthV - Solaria
Guitars: AmpleSounds M & PF
Drums: EZDrummer2
Claps: Hands Make Sounds
Organ: Analog Labs


----------



## Markrs

JimDiGritz said:


> Another Solaria track:
> 
> 
> 
> Never thought the default "La" would get so much use!!
> 
> Vocals: SynthV - Solaria
> Guitars: AmpleSounds M & PF
> Drums: EZDrummer2
> Claps: Hands Make Sounds
> Organ: Analog Labs



Great mockup, not just the excellent Solaria vocals, the band mock is really good.


----------



## berndfri

Agreed! @JimDiGritz It would interesting to understand your workflow on these cover songs. 
Do you playin or program each instrument? Or download the midi?
What instrument order do you work on? - and when do the Synthesizer V vocals get mixed in?


----------



## JimDiGritz

berndfri said:


> Agreed! @JimDiGritz It would interesting to understand your workflow on these cover songs.
> Do you playin or program each instrument? Or download the midi?
> What instrument order do you work on? - and when do the Synthesizer V vocals get mixed in?


My workflow is typically:

1. Isolate the vocals and instruments (lalala.ai or just a stereo filter) to 2 tracks - sometimes I'll find some isolated STEMS - but rarely
2. Pull Vocal track into DeCoda (to better visualise the notes)




3. If I can find sheet music to check specific notes this helps
4. Pull isolated vocal track and instrument only tracks into Instrument tracks in SynthV, this way I can
a) A/B test and listen to my vocals in place of the original
b) compare my vocals with the original (important for timing)
c) Check the actual waveform on my lyrics against the vocal waveform.. often this is a great way to rough out the lyrics




5. Find YouTube videos on Guitar, Bass, Piano and Drum lessons. Build instrument tracks up.
5a. I tempo map the track bar by bar in Reaper so that my MIDI can sit on the grid
6. I've got a simple template in Reaper which has MIDI tracks, a Vocal Bus and the Original & Isolated tracks to reference




7. I bounce the vocals out to Reaper (I don't use the plugin currently) and check against my WIP MIDI and with basic Vocal FX chain (eg Rider, Reverb and Compression).
8. My final bounce is Mono, Asp as Isolated track, 24bit @ 48k. I put the Asp in it's own track in Reaper typically with a small dB cut, to basically DeEss a little.
8. Rinse repeat, tweaking SynthV after listening to the vocals build up against the MIDI tracks.

Nothing particularly innovative!! I see some of the other posters using Praat scripts which I haven't really got my head around yet.

My only 'special' tip is to use this Script to enable the middle mouse wheel to scroll the editor windows: https://github.com/MintyDoggo/SynthW/releases/tag/v0.1.0 - you'll thank me!!!


----------



## berndfri

JimDiGritz said:


> My workflow is typically:
> 
> 1. Isolate the vocals and instruments (lalala.ai or just a stereo filter) to 2 tracks - sometimes I'll find some isolated STEMS - but rarely
> 2. Pull Vocal track into DeCoda (to better visualise the notes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. If I can find sheet music to check specific notes this helps
> 4. Pull isolated vocal track and instrument only tracks into Instrument tracks in SynthV, this way I can
> a) A/B test and listen to my vocals in place of the original
> b) compare my vocals with the original (important for timing)
> c) Check the actual waveform on my lyrics against the vocal waveform.. often this is a great way to rough out the lyrics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Find YouTube videos on Guitar, Bass, Piano and Drum lessons. Build instrument tracks up.
> 5a. I tempo map the track bar by bar in Reaper so that my MIDI can sit on the grid
> 6. I've got a simple template in Reaper which has MIDI tracks, a Vocal Bus and the Original & Isolated tracks to reference
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. I bounce the vocals out to Reaper (I don't use the plugin currently) and check against my WIP MIDI and with basic Vocal FX chain (eg Rider, Reverb and Compression).
> 8. My final bounce is Mono, Asp as Isolated track, 24bit @ 48k. I put the Asp in it's own track in Reaper typically with a small dB cut, to basically DeEss a little.
> 8. Rinse repeat, tweaking SynthV after listening to the vocals build up against the MIDI tracks.
> 
> Nothing particularly innovative!! I see some of the other posters using Praat scripts which I haven't really got my head around yet.
> 
> My only 'special' tip is to use this Script to enable the middle mouse wheel to scroll the editor windows: https://github.com/MintyDoggo/SynthW/releases/tag/v0.1.0 - you'll thank me!!!


Thank you for that descriptive summary!!


----------



## JimDiGritz

Vocals: SynthV - Solaria
Backing Vocals: SynthV - Solaria & Kevin
Guitars: AmpleSounds PF
Drums: EZDrummer2 & Majestica Timpani
Piano: PianoTeq
Brass: Majestica & Century Brass
Strings: BBCSO


----------



## Chungus

I've put the weekend towards using Synth V, and made this with it:


I'm pretty happy with how it turned out, and definitely glad I went through the trouble of picking SynthV up. It's an amazing piece of kit that brings me great joy. :')


----------



## philthevoid

Hello!

First try! Did this as an exercise. I had a lot of issues with consonants (k, d, t, th, being the worst). I'll follow David's advice and export them separately next time to be able to control them better. I'll also look for a way to tame Solaria's vibrato without manually drawing on every note. Appart from that, I think it turned out ok.

Cheers!
And thanks for all the info in this thread! (and the inspiring projects)



EDIT: I updated the link with a new version with most issues fixed and some breathing added throughout. I am much more satisfied now, though it took a while (no script was used).


----------



## mallux

Hot off the press... a preview of Solaria's imminent vocal modes update:


----------



## Blancanegra

mallux said:


> Hot off the press... a preview of Solaria's imminent vocal modes update:



I was looking forward to the nasal mode too, but they don't indicate if soft and solid are the only two that will be available or are the ones they already have ready. Also, those two are excellent!


----------



## jvsax

Once I saw this thread and heard what this VI can do I had to get it...it's pretty astounding. We're really entering a new phase of computer-based instruments based on how this VI performs. Here's "Skyline", an original tune with Solaria and Kevin:

"Skyline"


----------



## SteveC

Finalmente!! Very good way to present song sketches to pop singers without having to sing yourself. Kevin has a very good height. If you like very deep voices, you should wait for a baritone. I'm impressed with the quality.

Edit: I just said, that a computer program has a good height. :D


----------



## Tim_Wells

SteveC said:


> Finalmente!! Very good way to present song sketches to pop singers without having to sing yourself. Kevin has a very good height. If you like very deep voices, you should wait for a baritone.


Do you know if a baritone is being developed?


----------



## SteveC

Tim_Wells said:


> Do you know if a baritone is being developed?


No idea!  But I think it would be a good idea as Kevin already covers a lot of tenor colors.


----------



## Blancanegra

I'm exploring the crooner side of Kevin as he also holds his own very well in this style of music.

This song drops too low for his range and on those low notes the quality suffers, but it's passable in this case, I think.

Song sung blue (Neil Diamond)
View attachment Song sung blue test.mp3


Attached is the project file, enjoy!


----------



## JimDiGritz

Blancanegra said:


> I'm exploring the crooner side of Kevin as he also holds his own very well in this style of music.
> 
> This song drops too low for its range and on those low notes the quality suffers, but it's passable in this case, I think.
> 
> Song sung blue (Neil Diamond)
> View attachment Song sung blue test.mp3
> 
> 
> Attached is the project file, enjoy!


Kevin is definitely a crooner! I really hope we get a grittier Baritone or deeper Tenor since a lot of rock is almost impossible to do


----------



## Tim_Wells

Blancanegra said:


> I'm exploring the crooner side of Kevin as he also holds his own very well in this style of music.
> 
> This song drops too low for its range and on those low notes the quality suffers, but it's passable in this case, I think.
> 
> Song sung blue (Neil Diamond)
> View attachment Song sung blue test.mp3
> 
> 
> Attached is the project file, enjoy!


Thanks for doing this! I agree that it's _very_ passable in this context. It's basically a simple folk song. People aren't expecting José Van Dam. 

Actually, some of the very lowest notes sound quite good to me. It's the range just above that... where occasionally (not often) it sounds a little shaky. For example, the very first word, "Song".

But I'm nit-picking. You've done an amazing job!


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Tim_Wells said:


> Thanks for doing this! I agree that it's _very_ passable in this context. It's basically a simple folk song. People aren't expecting José Van Dam.
> 
> Actually, some of the very lowest notes sound quite good to me. It's the range just above that... where occasionally (not often) it sounds a little shaky. For example, the very first word, "Song".
> 
> But I'm nit-picking. You've done an amazing job!


Yeah---when he goes down to "sung" it sounds pretty good, if maybe very slightly synthy (not really noticeable in the context of the track IMO). The other lowest notes also sound good, like "again" in "you sing them out again". The word "choice" sounds a little off at the ending---overly abrupt---but I don't think that's from the note being low (though IDK).


----------



## Blancanegra

Tim_Wells said:


> Thanks for doing this! I agree that it's _very_ passable in this context. It's basically a simple folk song. People aren't expecting José Van Dam.
> 
> Actually, some of the very lowest notes sound quite good to me. It's the range just above that... where occasionally (not often) it sounds a little shaky. For example, the very first word, "Song".
> 
> But I'm nit-picking. You've done an amazing job!


The shaky effect is a pitch releated problem without too much importance since it is easy to fix (I miss a more stable pitch in long notes) in different ways:

1. Splitting a note in two in most cases reduces the vibrato and pitch fluctuations. Try the split in different places of the note.

2. In autopitch tunning, improvisation under 10%, press over and over the randomize button until you find something useful. Not always work.

3 . Draw yourself the pitch to correct those fluctuations.

4. @David Cuny wrote a script to reduce those fluctuations, but I didn't tried it yet and can't find where he did mention to it.



AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Yeah---when he goes down to "sung" it sounds pretty good, if maybe very slightly synthy (not really noticeable in the context of the track IMO). The other lowest notes also sound good, like "again" in "you sing them out again". The word "choice" sounds a little off at the ending---overly abrupt---but I don't think that's from the note being low (though IDK).


The first "sung" has a longer /ng/ phoneme but didn't tried that in the rest because /ng/ sounds a bit soft there compared to Neil timbre. Although here it's acceptable, notes below B2 already sound mostly out of bounds, and here there are notes as low as F2 (But(F2) when-you(G2) take the blues...). I agree that "choice" is a bit short!

The project for this song has almost no parameter edits (just some tension fades) so it would be great to listen to it with Mo Chen or An Xiao, I hardly find any work with those voicebanks.

Thank you both for the feedback!


----------



## raidergale

New Chinese female voicebank has just been announced, releasing... tomorrow (!).
I like her tone, and she'll have Chest, Power, Open, Opera, Soft and Airy vocal modes. I'm especially interested in the Opera one.
Considering SynthV has more female English samples the cross lingual function should _in theory _work a bit better than the previous Chinese male voicebanks, but I'd still wait for samples.


----------



## mallux

raidergale said:


> New Chinese female voicebank has just been announced, releasing... tomorrow (!).
> I like her tone, and she'll have Chest, Power, Open, Opera, Soft and Airy vocal modes. I'm especially interested in the Opera one.
> Considering SynthV has more female English samples the cross lingual function should _in theory _work a bit better than the previous Chinese male voicebanks, but I'd still wait for samples.


Expert use of "br"eath in that demo... really adds to the realism.


----------



## odod

raidergale said:


> New Chinese female voicebank has just been announced, releasing... tomorrow (!).
> I like her tone, and she'll have Chest, Power, Open, Opera, Soft and Airy vocal modes. I'm especially interested in the Opera one.
> Considering SynthV has more female English samples the cross lingual function should _in theory _work a bit better than the previous Chinese male voicebanks, but I'd still wait for samples.


let's welcome feng yi ... gosh, I need to work hard to get more voicebank


----------



## JimDiGritz

Vocals: SynthV - Solaria
Backing Vocals: SynthV - Solaria
Guitars: AmpleSounds PF
Drums: EZDrummer2
Synths: Analog V Labs


----------



## SteveC

raidergale said:


> New Chinese female voicebank has just been announced, releasing... tomorrow (!).
> I like her tone, and she'll have Chest, Power, Open, Opera, Soft and Airy vocal modes. I'm especially interested in the Opera one.
> Considering SynthV has more female English samples the cross lingual function should _in theory _work a bit better than the previous Chinese male voicebanks, but I'd still wait for samples.


I think it is much more difficult to recreate a (good) opera singer. The resonance structure is much more complex. That's why it's not possible to clean the intonation (believe me, I've tried :D ). I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm afraid I already know roughly what this feature will sound like.


----------



## David Cuny

SteveC said:


> I think it is much more difficult to recreate a (good) opera singer. The resonance structure is much more complex. That's why it's not possible to clean the intonation (believe me, I've tried :D ). I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm afraid I already know roughly what this feature will sound like.


There's no reason that the "resonance structure" can't be adequately modeled. It's literally the spectral envelope, and that's been well understood for some time.

And assuming they had a decent model of "Opera" vocals, I see no reason that a neural network couldn't be trained to convert the vocal timbre from "normal" to "Opera".

But that's just the _timbre_.

Unlike "Chest" and "Breathy", "Opera" not only encompasses the timbre of the voice, but the pitch (note approach, vibrato, _etc._).

However, _SynthesizerV_ hasn't been trained in "Opera" vocal style - it's been trained in the "Pop" vocal style.

I'm betting that an "Opera" timbre applied to a "Pop" style isn't going to sound much like opera.

But... we'll find out soon enough!


----------



## SteveC

David Cuny said:


> There's no reason that the "resonance structure" can't be adequately modeled. It's literally the spectral envelope, and that's been well understood for some time.


But here many resonance chambers interact! Not impossible, but very complex. In addition, each pitch has its own resonance combination, especially in the passaggio. Therefore it is impossible to change the pitch without sounding very artificial. So the problem is not the one resonance image that has to be copied, but the complexity of the generation. It's definitely possible, but I think any other instrument is easier to model. On the other hand, many opera singers find it difficult to resonate. Maybe the computer is the better student! :D


----------



## David Cuny

SteveC said:


> But here many resonance chambers interact! Not impossible, but very complex. In addition, each pitch has its own resonance combination, especially in the passaggio.


Sure, the resonating chambers interact. But the result is audible, and those resonances are captured.

Very little of the direct glottal pulse makes up the vocal sound. What we hear _are_ the resonances - and that includes _all_ the interactions between the chambers as well.

_SynthesizerV_ isn't doing physical modeling, so all the audio information gets captured "for free" by the spectral envelope.

Each pitch _does_ have it's own resonance combination, in that a singer will adjust their oral posture as they change pitch.

But this is the same for any instrument. It then becomes a question of at what intervals you're willing to sample. And with English phonemes requiring lots of samples, I think that _SynthesizerV_ samples notes at intervals of fourths.


----------



## SteveC

David Cuny said:


> Sure, the resonating chambers interact. But the result is audible, and those resonances are captured.
> 
> Very little of the direct glottal pulse makes up the vocal sound. What we hear _are_ the resonances - and that includes _all_ the interactions between the chambers as well.
> 
> _SynthesizerV_ isn't doing physical modeling, so all the audio information gets captured "for free" by the spectral envelope.
> 
> Each pitch _does_ have it's own resonance combination, in that a singer will adjust their oral posture as they change pitch.
> 
> But this is the same for any instrument. It then becomes a question of at what intervals you're willing to sample. And with English phonemes requiring lots of samples, I think that _SynthesizerV_ samples notes at intervals of fourths.


If that's so, I vote for the recreation of Franco Corelli :D


----------



## raidergale

Feng Yi's Opera vocal mode has been showcased, it's based on Beijing/Peking Opera style. It's a very niche style, but it sounds really good. Not very useful for Western Opera unfortunately, but still, this shows SynthV can replicate a very particular style quite well.

Release date for Western market (on the Dreamtonics Store) has been delayed to Sunday, 12PM Japan time. That's 4AM in London/11PM on Saturday in New York/8PM on Saturday in LA.


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> Unlike "Chest" and "Breathy", "Opera" not only encompasses the timbre of the voice, but the pitch (note approach, vibrato, _etc._).
> 
> However, _SynthesizerV_ hasn't been trained in "Opera" vocal style - it's been trained in the "Pop" vocal style.
> 
> I'm betting that an "Opera" timbre applied to a "Pop" style isn't going to sound much like opera.
> 
> But... we'll find out soon enough!


That's what I think, the tone transitions between notes in opera are completely different, the palette is much broader. For example, with current tools it is not possible to do a glissando easily. Musical ornaments like falsetto breaks (very fast glides, yodel, etc.) mordents (opera demo at 1:02) take too long to recreate. Likewise, sometimes it is necessary to increase the speed of the vibrato at the end of the notes (opera demo at 2:11)... and don't forget the tremolo...

Additional tools to quickly edit those details with good results are necessary, but I want to imagine that this could be on the road map.


----------



## SteveC

Blancanegra said:


> That's what I think, the tone transitions between notes in opera are completely different, the palette is much broader. For example, with current tools it is not possible to do a glissando easily. Musical ornaments like falsetto breaks (very fast glides, yodel, etc.) mordents (opera demo at 1:02) take too long to recreate. Likewise, sometimes it is necessary to increase the speed of the vibrato at the end of the notes (opera demo at 2:11)... and don't forget the tremolo...
> 
> Additional tools to quickly edit those details with good results are necessary, but I want to imagine that this could be on the road map.


I think the hardest part would be that the vibrato has to sound natural. A good vibrato in opera singing is not artificial!


----------



## Hataori

Blancanegra said:


> Likewise, sometimes it is necessary to increase the speed of the vibrato at the end of the notes (opera demo at 2:11)... and don't forget the tremolo...


I would like to rimind you my growl script which can also do a vibrato with frequency modulation and tremolo with amplitude modulation. You can draw param curves for both.

You can see a tutorial in this video (starts at vibrato part), amplitude modualtion is earlier:


----------



## JimDiGritz

raidergale said:


> Feng Yi's Opera vocal mode has been showcased, it's based on Beijing/Peking Opera style. It's a very niche style, but it sounds really good. Not very useful for Western Opera unfortunately, but still, this shows SynthV can replicate a very particular style quite well.
> 
> Release date for Western market (on the Dreamtonics Store) has been delayed to Sunday, 12PM Japan time. That's 4AM in London/11PM on Saturday in New York/8PM on Saturday in LA.


It sounds... interesting. I hadn't realised it was a child's voice - might pair nicely with Genesis or other childrens choirs.


----------



## raidergale

JimDiGritz said:


> It sounds... interesting. I hadn't realised it was a child's voice - might pair nicely with Genesis or other childrens choirs.


It's not a child voice, that's how Peking Opera sounds like, it has a distinct nasal high pitch tone.
Here's an example, where you can see that they also barely move their mouth when singing. It's definitely a very peculiar style, very different from Bel Canto opera indeed.


----------



## JimDiGritz

raidergale said:


> It's not a child voice, that's how Peking Opera sounds like, it has a distinct nasal high pitch tone.
> Here's an example, where you can see that they also barely move their mouth when singing. It's definitely a very peculiar style, very different from Bel Canto opera indeed.



I stand corrected - more power to Dreamtonics for covering a probably massively under served genre for VIs.. 

Hopefully they now start looking at some mainstream Western Genre's too... I feel that we have K/J Pop and Anime and now Peking Opera covered. With Solaria and Kevin we have light Pop - Opera, Choral and Rock are still massive gaps...


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

An Xiao apparently now has improved cross-lingual (English at least):


----------



## Blancanegra

This week I have had less time for this hobby, so I am leaving this unfinished project to you as I feel lazy to continue, being anxious to try other one of my growing "songs to try" list.

I think the lyrics part is good enough with beautiful passages but the ending part (wooah-hhoah) needs polishing. The tension valleys between the / hh ao / syllables are the key there, try erasing them to hear the difference. Missing the nasal vocal mode for that part!

As far I can remember, I only edited a very short vibrato and the final one, the rest is Kevin's AI natural vibrato.

Everybody's talkin' (Harry Nilsson)
View attachment Everybody's talkin' test.mp3


The project file is attached, enjoy!

Also tried this some days ago but it's too much for Kevin, if any is interested in the project file, LMK:

Owner of a lonely heart (Yes)
View attachment Owner of a lonely heart test.mp3


----------



## JimDiGritz

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> An Xiao apparently now has improved cross-lingual (English at least):



Nah sorry, that's awful.

I'm a big fan of Dreamtonics but other than Kevin the English pronunciation in all of these dual language voicebanks is unusable for anything except backing buried in a mix...

Solaria is (obviously) stunning, and I've heard good examples of Eleanor Forte, however apart from Kevin I've not heard a decent English performance of any of these DT voice banks.

I've got $'s waiting for another great English voicebank!


----------



## David Cuny

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> An Xiao apparently now has improved cross-lingual (English at least):


I just tried it out.

It's a real improvement. The pronunciation in the prior release was simply wrong, and there was no way to correct them.

With this version, the phonemes are still accented, but they're no longer blantently wrong.

I don't know that I'd want to use him up front, but I no longer regret the purchase.


----------



## JimDiGritz

David Cuny said:


> I just tried it out.
> 
> It's a real improvement. The pronunciation in the prior release was simply wrong, and there was no way to correct them.
> 
> With this version, the phonemes are still accented, but they're no longer blantently wrong.
> 
> I don't know that I'd want to use him up front, but I no longer regret the purchase.


Thanks David - does he have a much lower timbre than Kevin? To my ears he wasn't much deeper voiced - which is a shame!


----------



## David Cuny

JimDiGritz said:


> Thanks David - does he have a much lower timbre than Kevin? To my ears he wasn't much deeper voiced - which is a shame!


He's got a breathy voice compared to Kevin.

Even though he's got a "Chest" and "Power" option, if you drop the voice _too _low, you'll either get a comically buzzy note, or a lot of aspiration with very little pitch.

If you give me a demo file, I'll be happy to render it out with _An Xio_ and/or _Mo Chen_.


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> This week I have had less time for this hobby, so I am leaving this unfinished project to you as I feel lazy to continue, being anxious to try other one of my growing "songs to try" list.
> 
> I think the lyrics part is good enough with beautiful passages but the ending part (wooah-hhoah) needs polishing. The tension valleys between the / hh ao / syllables are the key there, try erasing them to hear the difference. Missing the nasal vocal mode for that part!
> 
> As far I can remember, I only edited a very short vibrato and the final one, the rest is Kevin's AI natural vibrato.
> 
> Everybody's talkin' (Harry Nilsson)
> View attachment Everybody's talkin' test.mp3
> 
> 
> The project file is attached, enjoy!
> 
> Also tried this some days ago but it's too much for Kevin, if any is interested in the project file, LMK:
> 
> Owner of a lonely heart (Yes)
> View attachment Owner of a lonely heart test.mp3


Everytime you do a mellow 70s or early 80s song it sounds brilliant. (All your examples sound great but this kind of music sounds the best imo.)


----------



## Blancanegra

English demos of Feng Yi are being posted in Twitter, I like the voice and her English sounds good to me, but since I'm not native I can't judge if she has an accent or not.



To put in context, next is talking about An Xiao cross-lingual update, not Feng Yi:


David Cuny said:


> I just tried it out.
> 
> It's a real improvement. The pronunciation in the prior release was simply wrong, and there was no way to correct them.
> 
> With this version, the phonemes are still accented, but they're no longer blantently wrong.
> 
> I don't know that I'd want to use him up front, but I no longer regret the purchase.


It's good to know that we can always hope for improvements!


David Cuny said:


> He's got a breathy voice compared to Kevin.
> 
> Even though he's got a "Chest" and "Power" option, if you drop the voice _too _low, you'll either get a comically buzzy note, or a lot of aspiration with very little pitch.
> 
> If you give me a demo file, I'll be happy to render it out with _An Xio_ and/or _Mo Chen_.


I posted some demos for Kevin lately:
Song sung blue - to show low register - soft/belt
Everybody's talking - medium register - soft/belt
Owner of a lonely heart - high register - belt/solid

I think those three demos have very little parameter editing, so they will work. However there are quite a few phoneme duration fixes, which I hope will also benefit the result with other voices.


----------



## Trash Panda

Blancanegra said:


> English demos of Feng Yi are being posted in Twitter, I like the voice and her English sounds good to me, but since I'm not native I can't judge if he has an accent or not.



This is like the ONE song where making the singer sound less robotic is a detriment. 😂


----------



## JimDiGritz

Vocals: SynthV - Kevin
Backing Vocals: SynthV - Kevin
Guitars: AmpleSounds PF
Bass: AmpleSounds P
Drums: EZDrummer2
Sax: Kontakt Factory Sax
Synths & Organ: Analog V Labs


----------



## JimDiGritz

Blancanegra said:


> English demos of Feng Yi are being posted in Twitter, I like the voice and her English sounds good to me, but since I'm not native I can't judge if she has an accent or not.
> 
> 
> 
> To put in context, next is talking about An Xiao cross-lingual update, not Feng Yi:
> 
> It's good to know that we can always hope for improvements!
> 
> I posted some demos for Kevin lately:
> Song sung blue - to show low register - soft/belt
> Everybody's talking - medium register - soft/belt
> Owner of a lonely heart - high register - belt/solid
> 
> I think those three demos have very little parameter editing, so they will work. However there are quite a few phoneme duration fixes, which I hope will also benefit the result with other voices.



Feng Yi, like all the other non-native voices is not really very useful in any Western Pop/Rock context except buried in a mix...

Solaria, Kevin and Eleanor Forte - all amazing. Not sure why I'd bother with a Ryu or An Xiao since their tone is so close to the others... but their pronunciation is way off..

I mean, I'd persevere if there was a Baritone or strong Rock voice - even with a slight accent...


----------



## raidergale

Here's an example of Feng Yi singing in English. I set Power pretty much to max, and Chest to around 30%. The SVP file was made for Solaria, so some tones might sound a bit off, especially when it comes to tension.
She's definitely an accented vocal, but Chinese to English sounds better than Japanese to English, going by my tests with Feng Yi and Saki.


View attachment ReasonFengYi.mp3


----------



## Vlzmusic

raidergale said:


> Here's an example of Feng Yi singing in English. I set Power pretty much to max, and Chest to around 30%. The SVP file was made for Solaria, so some tones might sound a bit off, especially when it comes to tension.
> She's definitely an accented vocal, but Chinese to English sounds better than Japanese to English, going by my tests with Feng Yi and Saki.
> 
> 
> View attachment ReasonFengYi.mp3


My wallet doesn't like this.


----------



## JimDiGritz

raidergale said:


> Here's an example of Feng Yi singing in English. I set Power pretty much to max, and Chest to around 30%. The SVP file was made for Solaria, so some tones might sound a bit off, especially when it comes to tension.
> She's definitely an accented vocal, but Chinese to English sounds better than Japanese to English, going by my tests with Feng Yi and Saki.
> 
> 
> View attachment ReasonFengYi.mp3


Thanks @raidergale - appreciate you posting this...

Whilst I quite like the timbre, the accent is really too strong to use as a Western lead vocal IMHO.

I'll stick with Solaria (looking forward to her update soon!) and Kevin. My wallet is waiting for *ANY *other good English voicebank!!


----------



## madfloyd

Solaria is getting an update?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

madfloyd said:


> Solaria is getting an update?


Soft and solid vocal modes


----------



## JimDiGritz

mallux said:


> Hot off the press... a preview of Solaria's imminent vocal modes update:



@madfloyd - h/t to @mallux!


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> Here's an example of Feng Yi singing in English. I set Power pretty much to max, and Chest to around 30%. The SVP file was made for Solaria, so some tones might sound a bit off, especially when it comes to tension.
> She's definitely an accented vocal, but Chinese to English sounds better than Japanese to English, going by my tests with Feng Yi and Saki.
> 
> 
> View attachment ReasonFengYi.mp3


Sounds great man.


----------



## madfloyd

Nice!!!!


----------



## baggage

although the voice isn't as popular here as SOLARIA and Kevin, the English voice ANRI has also been confirmed to get 4 vocal modes!


----------



## JimDiGritz

baggage said:


> although the voice isn't as popular here as SOLARIA and Kevin, the English voice ANRI has also been confirmed to get 4 vocal modes!


Thanks, I'd forgotten about AUDIOLOGIE as a developer - and whilst not in my wheelhouse genre-wise, ANRI's English sounds pretty good already (not mine):



Whilst yet another teen/K-Pop voice, it is pretty good!


----------



## Vlzmusic

baggage said:


> although the voice isn't as popular here as SOLARIA and Kevin, the English voice ANRI has also been confirmed to get 4 vocal modes!


I've purchased Anri from the get go. I like all the voices, but there is a reason Solaria is the most popular at the moment, and that includes both out-of-the-box sound you get initially, and also how she responds to tweaking.

Still, I did use Anri in some specific areas, and will be glad to see her updated.


----------



## Vardaro

How tweakable is Eleanor Forte in terms of style? Her voice seems to have enough "texture" to try on classical songs


----------



## Knute5

Vlzmusic said:


> My wallet doesn't like this.





raidergale said:


> Here's an example of Feng Yi singing in English. I set Power pretty much to max, and Chest to around 30%. The SVP file was made for Solaria, so some tones might sound a bit off, especially when it comes to tension.
> She's definitely an accented vocal, but Chinese to English sounds better than Japanese to English, going by my tests with Feng Yi and Saki.
> 
> 
> View attachment ReasonFengYi.mp3


Like Eleanor Forte, there's a smooth contrast to Solaria's maybe brassier timbre, which is just good to have. Feng Yi sounds a little like a Singaporean singer who studied in the US, Corinne May, who's voice I love but has little hints of an accent on various vowels and consonants. Feng Yi is maybe a little thinner, but what I would give to be able to work with that voice. I think my wallet may be getting a little lighter.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Vlzmusic said:


> there is a reason Solaria is the most popular at the moment, and that includes both out-of-the-box sound you get initially, and also how she responds to tweaking.


I like solaria since it's the only Voice bank that has no noticeable kazoo-effect


----------



## Chungus

After listening to some feedback, I made some adjustments to the track I did:


Lowered the pitch, increased the belt and solid parametres, as well as tension to a lesser degree. Adjusted some phonemes and drew in more pitch and volume curves to make things flow better, and applied some more processing on the bus to top things off.

I think it sounds a lot better now.


----------



## Knute5

Chungus said:


> After listening to some feedback, I made some adjustments to the track I did:
> 
> 
> Lowered the pitch, increased the belt and solid parametres, as well as tension to a lesser degree. Adjusted some phonemes and drew in more pitch and volume curves to make things flow better, and applied some more processing on the bus to top things off.
> 
> I think it sounds a lot better now.



What's interesting is when Kevin gets to the soaring middle part it sounds good - almost fools you. And I can hear the improvements on V2 for sure. That said, Kevin has almost no personality, especially for this type of music. I'd use this track to engage a Fiverr or other singer who can sell these lyrics and this song. All due respect but it's a "Polar Express" uncanny valley - "dead eyes" thing to hear Kevin laid on this tune. But it's an amazingly accurate guide for a real singer. Kevin works for a background singer or a double /stacked 4th-5th singer. Really nice work.


----------



## Chungus

Knute5 said:


> What's interesting is when Kevin gets to the soaring middle part it sounds good - almost fools you. And I can hear the improvements on V2 for sure. That said, Kevin has almost no personality, especially for this type of music. I'd use this track to engage a Fiverr or other singer who can sell these lyrics and this song. All due respect but it's a "Polar Express" uncanny valley - "dead eyes" thing to hear Kevin laid on this tune. But it's an amazingly accurate guide for a real singer. Kevin works for a background singer or a double /stacked 4th-5th singer. Really nice work.


Oh, I don't disagree. There's definite moments of 'hmmm' that I don't think any amount of hand tuning will smooth out. The 'staring across this barren wasted land" line springs to mind. But! I think it's absolutely rad software can get _this _close to the real deal now.

I echo previously stated sentiments that I look forward to the day there comes a voice bank suitable for rock. And opera.


----------



## raidergale

I'm trying to get somewhat of an 80s sound out of Solaria (and Feng Yi in the harmonies), with Kate Bush's Running Up That Hill.
Not sure how effective this is, but it's a start.
This once again uses Hataori's RealVoice script + manual editing.

View attachment RunningUpHill_Solaria.mp3


----------



## Knute5

raidergale said:


> I'm trying to get somewhat of an 80s sound out of Solaria (and Feng Yi in the harmonies), with Kate Bush's Running Up That Hill.
> Not sure how effective this is, but it's a start.
> This once again uses Hataori's RealVoice script + manual editing.
> 
> View attachment RunningUpHill_Solaria.mp3


If only you could get Solaria to do Kate Bush's "r"s... Nice work as always, mate.


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> I'm trying to get somewhat of an 80s sound out of Solaria (and Feng Yi in the harmonies), with Kate Bush's Running Up That Hill.
> Not sure how effective this is, but it's a start.
> This once again uses Hataori's RealVoice script + manual editing.
> 
> View attachment RunningUpHill_Solaria.mp3


Very convincing. Mellow 70s early 80s seems to be the best use for it, i conclude everytime.


----------



## raidergale

Knute5 said:


> If only you could get Solaria to do Kate Bush's "r"s... Nice work as always, mate.


Since I'm not a native speaker, can you elaborate a bit more on this? What makes Kate Bush's "r"s different from Solaria's? I'm curious to see if it's something that can be replicated


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Here's some 80s for you :>

View attachment ace80s.mp3


----------



## Vlzmusic

Happy to report, that Feng Yi is up to Solaria quality, in terms of out-of-the-box realism, lack of "digital" sounds etc.

The accent is there, but nothing that would ruin your back vocals and such, and overall she has a very musical way of pronouncing words, also being great as a complementary voice to Solaria, balancing out the "Solaria shouting" style with a softer touch. 

Also - her vocal modes really do different stuff, its not a gimmick. But please take in account that "Opera" - used in a strictly Chinese fashion, turning the voice into a very specific type of singing -nothing to do with western term for opera.

But overall - Feng Yi is a lovely voice, musical, even somewhat emotional, with many sound options and great usability! Way to go Dreamtonics!

Barely adjusted test:


----------



## soulofsound

AceAudioHQ said:


> Here's some 80s for you :>
> 
> View attachment ace80s.mp3


It sounds great. What song is this?


----------



## soulofsound

Vlzmusic said:


> Happy to report, that Feng Yi is up to Solaria quality, in terms of out-of-the-box realism, lack of "digital" sounds etc.
> 
> The accent is there, but nothing that would ruin your back vocals and such, and overall she has a very musical way of pronouncing words, also being great as a complementary voice to Solaria, balancing out the "Solaria shouting" style with a softer touch.
> 
> Also - her vocal modes really do different stuff, its not a gimmick. But please take in account that "Opera" - used in a strictly Chinese fashion, turning the voice into a very specific type of singing -nothing to do with western term for opera.
> 
> But overall - Feng Yi is a lovely voice, musical, even somewhat emotional, with many sound options and great usability! Way to go Dreamtonics!
> 
> Barely adjusted test:


Very usable. Thanks for the update.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

soulofsound said:


> It sounds great. What song is this?


Thanks, it’s my own, started it a few days ago, I haven’t yet completed it though so it doesn’t have a name


----------



## NYC Composer

AceAudioHQ said:


> Thanks, it’s my own, started it a few days ago, I haven’t yet completed it though so it doesn’t have a name


It does sound great. Can you share your settings on Solaria and which plugs you used?


----------



## mike753

And now for something completely different :



Soprano (Solaria), Alto (Eleanor Forte), Tenor (Kevin), Bass (Kevin+Melodyne 5)

I know that these voices are not made for that kind of music and most of you won't be interested in using them in this way, but I just wanted to try and share it with you. I think that it doesn't sound too bad. Synthesizer V is an astounding piece of software (and I am about to use it with styles that do the voices more justice like pop, jazz, etc)


----------



## AceAudioHQ

NYC Composer said:


> Can you share your settings on Solaria and which plugs you used?


For that song my plugin chain was SSL VocalStrip 2, Melda MAutoPitch, Kjaerhus Classic Chorus, NI Replika, Soundtoys Little Plate, a stock compressor and signal followers from the vocal track to gainers in the reverb and delay auxes to lower the volume of the effects when the vocals are active.

Solaria settings: tension on full, breathiness -0.725, gender 0.085


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Solaria works just fine for eurodance :>

View attachment thereisastar_a03.mp3


----------



## NYC Composer

AceAudioHQ said:


> For that song my plugin chain was SSL VocalStrip 2, Melda MAutoPitch, Kjaerhus Classic Chorus, NI Replika, Soundtoys Little Plate, a stock compressor and signal followers from the vocal track to gainers in the reverb and delay auxes to lower the volume of the effects when the vocals are active.
> 
> Solaria settings: tension on full, breathiness -0.725, gender 0.085


Thanks. What was the Melda autopitch for?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

NYC Composer said:


> Thanks. What was the Melda autopitch for?


Just to make the vocals flatter, the auto pitch tuning in solaria sometimes wanders a bit and it’s sometimes hard to control the vibrato, with mautopitch I get it closer to what I like


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

AceAudioHQ said:


> For that song my plugin chain was SSL VocalStrip 2, Melda MAutoPitch, Kjaerhus Classic Chorus, NI Replika, Soundtoys Little Plate, a stock compressor and signal followers from the vocal track to gainers in the reverb and delay auxes to lower the volume of the effects when the vocals are active.
> 
> Solaria settings: tension on full, breathiness -0.725, gender 0.085


Any major EQ adjustments in Vocalstrip? There are some prominent frequencies I often hear in Solaria's voice that I don't care for... but in your clip they're gone. Or that could be from the Synth V settings, or perhaps the range....


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Cinematic Feng Yi (including opera mode):



I think that's the Japanese cross-lingual....

Any comparable examples for English?...


----------



## AceAudioHQ

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Any major EQ adjustments in Vocalstrip?


I just use the female pop preset


----------



## raidergale

I've finished my Running Up That Hill cover. I admit I'm not really happy with the results, especially near the end, but I figured it was better to release it now than to keep it perpetually stuck on my computer.



This uses Hataori's RealVoice script + manual editing. I feel like Vocal Modes would've helped with some parts, but they're not out yet for Solaria, so I had to do with what I had. Knowing my luck, Solaria's Vocal Modes will now release in a few days...


----------



## Koyo

Just got Synthesizer V Pro with the Kevin voice. It's amazing.
Question: it says it's using a "modified" ARPABET to make the phonetic transcriptions. Where can one consult it?


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> I've finished my Running Up That Hill cover. I admit I'm not really happy with the results, especially near the end, but I figured it was better to release it now than to keep it perpetually stuck on my computer.
> 
> 
> 
> This uses Hataori's RealVoice script + manual editing. I feel like Vocal Modes would've helped with some parts, but they're not out yet for Solaria, so I had to do with what I had. Knowing my luck, Solaria's Vocal Modes will now release in a few days...



Maybe put more compression on it? The timbre is a good match though. Like always i appreciate you doing this.


----------



## stigbn

Koyo said:


> Just got Synthesizer V Pro with the Kevin voice. It's amazing.
> Question: it says it's using a "modified" ARPABET to make the phonetic transcriptions. Where can one consult it?


You can find it on Vocaverse.network - search for arpabet - there's someone who's made a spreadsheet with all the phonemes (The Ultimate Synthesizer V Phoneme Chart) - I don't know if you need to be member to download it though.


----------



## philthevoid

@Koyo 
I'm not in front of SynthV at the moment to confirm but the person who made the spreadsheet mentionned above also said this:
"_In Synthesizer V, you can see the list of ARPABET phonemes by going View > Open Phoneme Viewer_"

(and yes, you need to be a member to download the spreadsheet)


----------



## stigbn

philthevoid said:


> @Koyo
> I'm not in front of SynthV at the moment to confirm but the person who made the spreadsheet mentionned above also said this:
> "_In Synthesizer V, you can see the list of ARPABET phonemes by going View > Open Phoneme Viewer_"
> 
> (and yes, you need to be a member to download the spreadsheet)


I can't find it in my version, there no 'open phoneme viewer' in my 'view' menu - I think it used to be in one of the early versions of Synthesizer V ?


----------



## David Cuny

stigbn said:


> I can't find it in my version, there no 'open phoneme viewer' in my 'view' menu - I think it used to be in one of the early versions of Synthesizer V ?


Yes, it's not in the current version.


----------



## philthevoid

Aaww. Sorry about that.
I hope they consider including a similar reference in the future. I feel like that's a pretty basic thing.


----------



## raidergale

Solaria has a handy plugin listing English phonetics, I hope it's ok to share this...






As an aside, I've also made a new cover to properly test Feng Yi's English capabilities. As I said before it's definitely accented, but her tone is very different from Solaria's. It's a lot sweeter and more airy.


----------



## David Cuny

raidergale said:


> Solaria has a handy plugin listing English phonetics, I hope it's ok to share this...


The problem with putting it into a plug-in is that it's only available to people who have the Pro version of the editor.

It's baffling why it was removed, and people have been asking for it to be brought back.


----------



## cambler

raidergale said:


> Solaria has a handy plugin listing English phonetics, I hope it's ok to share this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As an aside, I've also made a new cover to properly test Feng Yi's English capabilities. As I said before it's definitely accented, but her tone is very different from Solaria's. It's a lot sweeter and more airy.



Wow her voice sounds lovely. Great job. Do we think her English pronunciation will get better or is it inherent?


----------



## raidergale

David Cuny said:


> The problem with putting it into a plug-in is that it's only available to people who have the Pro version of the editor.
> 
> It's baffling why it was removed, and people have been asking for it to be brought back.


Oh yeah, which is why I posted the picture, I have no idea why it was removed indeed. I can only guess it's because some stuff won't work with Standard banks compared to AI ones, but now that SynthV is mainly focused on AI they could just add it with a disclaimer...


cambler said:


> Wow her voice sounds lovely. Great job. Do we think her English pronunciation will get better or is it inherent?


Hard to say, but I'm leaning more on "I doubt it'll get much better". We only have a single case where a non-native English voicebank got noticeably better with English cross-language synthesis, and that's An Xiao. I don't have that voice so I can't confirm 100%, but it apparently had completely wrong pronunciation for some phonemes, which got fixed with a later patch, bringing it more in line with other Chinese-accented vocals. Feng Yi doesn't seem to have any egregious error, just a noticeable accent, so I don't know if the incentive to "fix" that voice is there.
Then again, you honestly never know, improved cross-language synthesis might be a bullet point for one of SynthV's future updates, and since it's a Dreamtonics developed voice it's possible it'll get updated more frequently.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

For cross-lingual with Feng Yi and other voices, is it much of a hassle trying to get the phonemes to sound like intelligible English words? Do you need to use a lot of little tricks like doubling certain phonemes, substituting something else for what seems most logical, etc.?


----------



## David Cuny

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> For cross-lingual with Feng Yi and other voices, is it much of a hassle trying to get the phonemes to sound like intelligible English words? Do you need to use a lot of little tricks like doubling certain phonemes, substituting something else for what seems most logical, etc.?


Generally, no - they work just the same as a regular English voice, with the same phonemes.

There will still be somewhat of an accent, but there's no real way around that. If there are phonemes that are weak, you can go in and boost the strength, but that's generally not needed.

Even with an accent, they're still highly intelligible. But you're unlikely to confuse them with a native English voice.

There _was _a voice (I think it was An Xiao) that was released where there were phonemes that were simply wrong, but that was corrected in a later release.


----------



## Koyo

By reading the online manual, I learned that Mandarin Chinese voices use the X-SAMPA phonetic notation.
There are a lot more phonemes than English, which would allows singing songs in many other languages.
The only question I have is does the X-SAMPA used by Dreamtronics the same as described on the wikipedia page?
The Japanese voices use Romaji derived symbols, which is not clear how they would be used in a phonetical alphabet. There are no ressources online on that subject.


----------



## David Cuny

Although the Chinese voices use the X-SAMPA phoneme notation, they *don't* implement the full set of X-SAMPA phonemes.

Rather, they are limited to only those phonemes that occur in Chinese.


----------



## Koyo

*Mandarin Chinese:*
Initials (consonants) - 21 phonemes
(b) (c) (d) (f) (g) (h) (j) (k) (l) (m) (n) (p) (q) (r) (s) (t) (x) (z) (zh) (ch) (sh)

Finals (vowels and vowel-nasal pairs) - 35 phonemes
(a) (e) (i) (o) (u) (ü) (iu) (ui) (un) (ün) (ia) (ie) (ua) (uo) (ai) (ei) (in) (ou) (an) (ao) (en) (ang) (ong) (eng) (ing) (ian) (iao) (uan) (uai) (iou) (üan) (iang) (iong) (uang) (ueng)

Chinese still gives more potential to pronounce other languages.
English which has only 44 phonemes in all.

Analysis varies because some don't include diphthongs. Here's a fun comparative chart. This chart describes European languages only, unfortunately.


----------



## Koyo

Is there a script repository for Synthesizer V? I don't know where to look for them, the must have and the experimental. Thanks!


----------



## David Cuny

Koyo said:


> *Mandarin Chinese:*
> Initials (consonants) - 21 phonemes
> (b) (c) (d) (f) (g) (h) (j) (k) (l) (m) (n) (p) (q) (r) (s) (t) (x) (z) (zh) (ch) (sh)
> 
> Finals (vowels and vowel-nasal pairs) - 35 phonemes
> (a) (e) (i) (o) (u) (ü) (iu) (ui) (un) (ün) (ia) (ie) (ua) (uo) (ai) (ei) (in) (ou) (an) (ao) (en) (ang) (ong) (eng) (ing) (ian) (iao) (uan) (uai) (iou) (üan) (iang) (iong) (uang) (ueng)
> 
> Chinese still gives more potential to pronounce other languages.
> English which has only 44 phonemes in all.
> 
> Analysis varies because some don't include diphthongs. Here's a fun comparative chart. This chart describes European languages only, unfortunately.


Chinese has significantly _less_ phonemes than English. Like Japanese, because of strict ordering rules, it's much easier to record a complete list of Chinese (and Japanese) phoneme combinations.

In the second list, *(eng)* isn't a single phoneme, it's a sequence of _two_ phonemes, */e ng/*. Similarly, *(iou)* is a *sequence* of _three_ phonemes, */i o u/*.

Breaking the list into phonemes yields:

(a) (e) (i) (o) (u) (ü) (i u) (u i) (u n) (ü n) (i a) (i e) (u a) (u o) (a i) (e i) (i n) (o u) (a n) (a o) (e n) (a ng) (o ng) (e ng) (i ng) (i a n) (i a o) (u a n) (u a i) (i o u) (ü a n) (i a ng) (i o ng) (u a ng) (u e ng)

There are only eight unique _phonemes_ in the list - 6 vowels and 2 consonants:

(a) (e) (i) (o) (u) (ü) (n) (ng)

The */n/* is already accounted for in the initial consonants, whereas the */ng/* appears here because it doesn't appear in any initial consonants.

There's a */y/* in Mandarin Chinese that's missing from the list, so the _total _phoneme count is 29 phonemes, which is less than English:

22 Consonants: (b) (c) (d) (f) (g) (h) (j) (k) (l) (m) (n) (ng) (p) (q) (r) (s) (t) (x) (z) (zh) (ch) (sh)
6 Vowels: (a) (e) (i) (o) (u) (ü) (y)

That's less _total_ phonemes than English's 44 phonemes.


----------



## parapentep70

David Cuny said:


> Chinese has significantly _less_ phonemes than English. Like Japanese, because of strict ordering rules, it's much easier to record a complete list of Chinese (and Japanese) phoneme combinations....


Absolutely! When I studied Mandarin once I took the time to count EVERY possible valid syllable. Only 423! (excluding tones). In my book there was a double page table listing ALL possible combinations between "initials" and "Finals". All. Not all initials can combine with every final, in fact... there are only these 423 combinations of the possible 21 x 35.

That's why you can list them ALL, counting what we call diphthongs as "2 different finals". If it is a combination of the 21x35 mentioned by Koyo, it MIGHT be valid (most times it is NOT).

In Spanish or English there are thousands! In fact I found a few syllables that could be perfectly valid in Spanish, but they are not used (to my knowledge). Example: You can find syllables AP-(nea), (h)EP(tágono), (h)IP(nótico), ÓP(tica) but nothing using "UP". I am sure there are "valid" syllables in English not used.

In Chinese you could imagine that if "PA" is valid, them "PAS" or "PAD" or "PAB" or "PAL" could be valid. But not! Examples like "PLA" or "PRA" are also forbidden. Inversions like "AP" is also forbidden. Mixing all to generate a complex syllable (like "prans") is even more forbidden . There are SO MANY western syllables that simply don't exist in Mandarin Chinese.

Add that (at least in contrast with English, Spanish or French), >90% of SIMPLE (not compound) words are monosyllabic... so 90% of their 50.000 "words" (DIFFERENT written entries in a Mandarin dictionary) are just one of the 423 syllables! In western languages there are single words with 1 or 2 or 3 or even more syllables chosen from thousands!

So when you _*MASTER*_ the 4 (5 in reality) "tones" to be combined with the 423 syllables, you really need a context to understand or being understood. But if you simply try to "say" the syllables without the tones, this is not "accented pronunciation", it is just impossible to decode!

In summary, for me western speaker, I can fully understand how much easier it would be to learn Japanese than Chinese: very similar writing, mostly monosyllabic but using a lot MORE phonemes and combinations (and they are surprisingly close to Spanish) and... without the 4 (or 5) tones!

In summary, Chinese is not difficult for having many phonemes or valid combinations, in my opinion the problem is just the opposite!


----------



## mallux

It would be interesting to try using the cross-lingual functionality to elicit some of the missing vowel sounds... ARPABET does rather assume that everyone is American. Probably fair enough for Solaria given where Emma Rowley is from, but I don't see how the same system would translate to other dialects.

*balm* and *bot* definitely do _not_ rhyme where I come from (south-east England), and the open back rounded vowel seems to be entirely missing, which is a shame because it's in pretty much every sentence


----------



## parapentep70

David Cuny said:


> There's a */y/* in Mandarin Chinese that's missing from the list, so the _total _phoneme count is 29 phonemes, which is less than English:


Not really, "yi" is the proper way to write "i" in pinyin when it is in isolation. And "wu" is the proper pinyin for "u". They are not real phonemes.

EDITED: Not exactly, but close: "Y" is used when there is no consonant before. So "iou"is written "you". If "i" is isolated, correct pinyin is "yi" instead of simply "y". Same for "w" to substitute "u" (and "wu" when isolated).


----------



## parapentep70

That's that, if not in the list, not valid. I am sure the number is 423 or 432:





Mandarin Chinese Pinyin Chart with Audio


Mandarin Chinese Pinyin Chart with Audio



hkchinesemandarintutor.com





Most single words in the dictionary are just one of them + tonal information. Thousands of homophones (even after tonal information is considered).


----------



## David Cuny

Koyo said:


> Is there a script repository for Synthesizer V? I don't know where to look for them, the must have and the experimental. Thanks!


Probably the best place to look is the SynthesizerV forum. People announce scripts there. But there's no general place that I know of where they are hosted.

I've put mine on SourceForge.


----------



## Koyo

David Cuny said:


> Chinese has significantly _less_ phonemes than English. Like Japanese, because of strict ordering rules, it's much easier to record a complete list of Chinese (and Japanese) phoneme combinations.
> [...]
> There are only eight unique _phonemes_ in the list - 6 vowels and 2 consonants:
> [...]
> That's less _total_ phonemes than English's 44 phonemes.


Thank you, I appreciate this precision! It's too bad that yet some vowels that are phonetically represented as equivalent in different languages (and even regional accents), they are not exactly articulated the same way in real life.


----------



## Koyo

I wonder if there's a way through a script to make a more/less protruded and compressed rounding pronunciation, AKA "labialization". Or to accuentuate/lessen frictative and glottal phonemes.
I've tried playing with the GENDER and TONE SHIFT parameters for that to affect specific phonemes, but the relationship is not obvious nor conclusive, but certainly having an effect similar to unspecified mouth/tongue/lip positioning affecting pronunciation.
It's a question of specifiying in phonetic terms what these two parameter do.


----------



## Koyo

I was able to get a convincing [y] sound as in "über" (German) or "pur" (French) just by slightly playing with the GENDER parameter within the [iy] phoneme. It's promising!
I'll be using that chart and perhaps map the relationship with GENDER and TONE SHIFT for future use with SYnthesizer V.


----------



## timxuoc

Can I create a voiceover with Synthesizer V? I need to read a text in standard English


----------



## timxuoc

tips for making a synth v sound like they're talking?


----------



## David Cuny

Koyo said:


> I've tried playing with the GENDER and TONE SHIFT parameters for that to affect specific phonemes, but the relationship is not obvious nor conclusive, but certainly having an effect similar to unspecified mouth/tongue/lip positioning affecting pronunciation.


Shaping one phoneme into another is a non-trivial task, and the tools you have really aren't capable of doing what you need them to do.

*Gender* modifies the position of the formants. It correlates to modifying the length of the oral cavity - shorter for female, longer for male.

But you can only shift all the formants together. You can't specify that you wants F1 higher, or F2 lower.

*Tone Shift* uses spectral envelopes from a higher/lower pitch. Think of it as extending a vocal register up or down. It's akin to what you can do with a sampler when you use neighboring notes and pitch shift them.

Again, you only impact the timbre of the sound - not the phoneme itself.

The tongue creates resonating chambers, which are captured in the spectral envelope. Since _SynthesizerV_ doesn't use formant synthesis, there's no way for users to modify the positions of formants.

The lips modify the length of the oral cavity. You have some control over that with *Gender*. But you can't change an */aa/* into an */ae/* by modifying any of these parameters.


----------



## David Cuny

timxuoc said:


> Can I create a voiceover with Synthesizer V? I need to read a text in standard English


With _SynthesizerV_, you'll have to manually specify the duration of the vowels, as well as manually drawing the pitch line.

There are better tools available for the task.


----------



## dhmusic

David Cuny said:


> you can't change an */aa/* into an */ae/* by modifying any of these parameters.


Could you do something like this with melodyne's spectral eq with the right envelope settings?


----------



## Koyo

For pedagogical purposes, since I'm still new to Synthesizer V, I'd like to share this beautiful Yumi Kamura cover and ask: what is the parameter used under what I assume is TENSION? Thank you.


----------



## David Cuny

dhmusic said:


> Could you do something like this with melodyne's spectral eq with the right envelope settings?


I'm not sure - I only have Melodyne Assistant.

Here's the core problem - the image below shows me singing three different syllables:






Below the waveforms are spectrograms - the low frequencies on the bottom, high frequencies on the top. The wobbly blue line is the pitch, and the red lines indicate where _Praat_ (the program I'm using) thinks the formants are.

Different phonemes have formant in different locations, and formants from the same phoneme move over time as you move from one phoneme to the next.

Notice that the */eh/* and */ih/* already look very similar.

In the */eh/*, the first four formants are (according to _Praat) _at 640 Hz, 1755 Hz, 2680 Hz and 3670 Hz. The first four formants of */ah/* are at 810 Hz, 1660 Hz, 2655 Hz and 3810 Hz.

So to make the */eh/* sound like the */ih*/, you'd have to move the first formant up 170 Hz and the second formant down 90 Hz. You have to do this _without moving the frequencies of the other formants_, and without changing the other formants.

It's the sort of thing that Melodyne tries to do in polyphonic mode, but it's at the _formant_ level.

If you look at the first vowel - */ih/* - you can see that the formant is moving over time. So it's not just identifying a band and shifting it, because the position of the formant isn't static.

That's not to say that it can't be done. That's exactly what _SynthesizerV_ is doing when it does the cross-lingual feature, although that's been done in a pre-processing step by the neural network that's learned to retarget the vocals.

So, you might be able to do that with _Melodyne_. But it would be really tedious.

Sheesh, now you've got me wondering how hard it would be to write a tool that could do this...


----------



## dhmusic

David Cuny said:


> I'm not sure - I only have Melodyne Assistant.
> 
> Here's the core problem - the image below shows me singing three different syllables:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Below the waveforms are spectrograms - the low frequencies on the bottom, high frequencies on the top. The wobbly blue line is the pitch, and the red lines indicate where _Praat_ (the program I'm using) thinks the formants are.
> 
> Different phonemes have formant in different locations, and formants from the same phoneme move over time as you move from one phoneme to the next.
> 
> Notice that the */eh/* and */ih/* already look very similar.
> 
> In the */eh/*, the first four formants are (according to _Praat) _at 640 Hz, 1755 Hz, 2680 Hz and 3670 Hz. The first four formants of */ah/* are at 810 Hz, 1660 Hz, 2655 Hz and 3810 Hz.
> 
> So to make the */eh/* sound like the */ih*/, you'd have to move the first formant up 170 Hz and the second formant down 90 Hz. You have to do this _without moving the frequencies of the other formants_, and without changing the other formants.
> 
> It's the sort of thing that Melodyne tries to do in polyphonic mode, but it's at the _formant_ level.
> 
> If you look at the first vowel - */ih/* - you can see that the formant is moving over time. So it's not just identifying a band and shifting it, because the position of the formant isn't static.
> 
> That's not to say that it can't be done. That's exactly what _SynthesizerV_ is doing when it does the cross-lingual feature, although that's been done in a pre-processing step by the neural network that's learned to retarget the vocals.
> 
> So, you might be able to do that with _Melodyne_. But it would be really tedious.
> 
> Sheesh, now you've got me wondering how hard it would be to write a tool that could do this...


Wow that's some good info. I think you might be able to, I'll have to give it a shot since I have Melodyne Studio. Tedious is fine - probably faster than 100+ hour brute-force/frankensteining like I usually sometimes do lol. I've been thinking about this for a while at a linguistic/phonetic level but it's all intuition. I've got some studying to do I guess. What sort of analyzer is that?


----------



## David Cuny

dhmusic said:


> What sort of analyzer is that?


The program is _Praat_. The lettering is MS Paint, but there's a feature in _Praat_ to do that, too.

It's free, and it's _really_ cool.


----------



## David Cuny

dhmusic said:


> Could you do something like this with melodyne's spectral eq with the right envelope settings?


Having just spent the evening writing a toy spectral editor, I'll just say that painting spectral values and moving formants is _not_ an intuitive way to work with audio.


----------



## raidergale

Koyo said:


> For pedagogical purposes, since I'm still new to Synthesizer V, I'd like to share this beautiful Yumi Kamura cover and ask: what is the parameter used under what I assume is TENSION? Thank you.


The parameters shown there are Tension and Pitch Deviation.


----------



## dhmusic

David Cuny said:


> Having just spent the evening writing a toy spectral editor, I'll just say that painting spectral values and moving formants is _not_ an intuitive way to work with audio.


Could you program transitions like a sample crossfade? Like with a starting point, destination, length of transition and slope shape?

I bet it would be faster than what I do. If I want a really solid choir part it basically becomes a work of pointillism.


----------



## David Cuny

dhmusic said:


> Could you program transitions like a sample crossfade? Like with a starting point, destination, length of transition and slope shape?
> 
> I bet it would be faster than what I do. If I want a really solid choir part it basically becomes a work of pointillism.


It's probably not going to solve the problem. Be warned, poor MS Paint illustrations are coming up.

Let's say that you've got two phonemes, and you want to transition from the first (source) into the second (target). For simplicity, let's assume there's a single formant - in the first formant it's at 600 Hz, and int the second it's at 900 Hz. If you look at the hamonic content, you'll see a "bump" where the formant is:






If you simply cross-fade them, it's going to fade out the source (decrease the amplitude) and fade in the target (increase the amplitude). So the source is going to shrink to zero, while the target grows, like one peak disappearing and another rising up. That is, you'll have _two_ formants during the cross-fade:






It'll _sort of_ work, and it might even be good enough for what you're trying to do.

But what you _really _need is a spectral morph, so that the morphed formant moves in position (frequency) as well as amplitude:






That's great in theory, but once you try to implement it, things get complicated really quickly.

There are typically 4-6 salient formants. Even if you're just moving _one _of them, you're going to have to mark the upper and lower bounds of the morph, the source position, and the target position.

So yes, it's doable.

But you'd need to make this happen at the spectral level. You'd need to know the position of the formants in the source and target, and interpolate over time. And sometimes there's not a good mapping between formants (nasals, for example), and it only works for voices sounds, so stops are out of the question.

You'll need to deconstruct the audio into the harmonic spectrum (probably using an FFT), edit the data, and then reconstruct the audio again. Have fun dealing with the phase changing! 

For giggles, here's some screenshots to a tool I wrote last night. It doesn't do morphing (yet) - you just position a line segment of what you want to move, and a line segment where you want it to go.

It's really, really crude. More a proof-of-concept kind of thing, not practical for lots of reasons.

On the left is the */iy/*, followed by the */ow/*. The last phoneme is the */iy/* hacked into an */ow/* by copying and moving its formants around:







The fact that this kind of technology works at all is sort of amazing to me. (I'm using the WORLD vocoder to do all the heavy lifting).

Just like it looks, the result sounds pretty terrible. It's like an */ow/* being sung by a cow. 

But in order to do this, you need to know what the source and target spectrograms of the phonemes look like. You need do lots of tinkering and moving things around. (I really wish I had implemented an Undo option!).

This is _not_ a good way to spend your time if you're trying to fix audio.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

how do you set specific tracks to specific outputs? I can see synth v pro having multiple outputs by default but I can't find any settings relating to them inside the program, everything is output to bus1


----------



## stigbn

AceAudioHQ said:


> how do you set specific tracks to specific outputs? I can see synth v pro having multiple outputs by default but I can't find any settings relating to them inside the program, everything is output to bus1


Go into 'Settings' go to 'Audio' select 'Tracks Combined' (instead of 'master combined' which is default) then every track goes out on separate midi channels


----------



## Anthony

Thoughts on Emvoice's new Keela voice?


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Anthony said:


> Thoughts on Emvoice's new Keela voice?



Nice timbre, but frequently sounds unrealistic, depending on what she's singing....


----------



## Vlzmusic

Anthony said:


> Thoughts on Emvoice's new Keela voice?



The base of her voice is nicely mature, but the tech cannot compete with Synth V. Actually, nothing can, if you think of it. 26 MB of data that brings a breathing human being into your mix. Still can't get used to it


----------



## GtrString

Emvoice sounds pretty good, nothing Melodyne and a vocal effect chain wouldn’t solve, imo.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

GtrString said:


> Emvoice sounds pretty good, nothing Melodyne and a vocal effect chain wouldn’t solve, imo.


Have you tried using Melodyne to add (apparently) missing features like melisma and adjustable vibrato? Doubt it would sound anywhere near as good (or at least as natural) as Synth V... hmm, I might try though.

From playing around with Emvoice a bit, it seems easier to either "write around" its limitations or accept obvious electronic-ness.


----------



## David Cuny

Anthony said:


> Thoughts on Emvoice's new Keela voice?


I like it. 

But I agree that it's got a "flat" overly pitch corrected sound with all the life squashed out of it.

I've listened to a lot of copy synthesis where the underlying synthesis wasn't that great, but the expressiveness of the vocal really sold me on it. 

Heck, Software Automatic Mouth had a super-cheesy sound, but the pitch line made it engaging to listen to.

I think if Emvoice focused on adding human expression to the vocal, they'll find the results will be a lot more convincing.

Not that it's necessarily a trivial problem to solve! As far as I can tell, there's no low-level controls available for editing Emvoice's pitch line.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

David Cuny said:


> I like it.
> 
> But I agree that it's got a "flat" overly pitch corrected sound with all the life squashed out of it.
> 
> I've listened to a lot of copy synthesis where the underlying synthesis wasn't that great, but the expressiveness of the vocal really sold me on it.
> 
> Heck, Software Automatic Mouth had a super-cheesy sound, but the pitch line made it engaging to listen to.
> 
> I think if Emvoice focused on adding human expression to the vocal, they'll find the results will be a lot more convincing.
> 
> Not that it's necessarily a trivial problem to solve! As far as I can tell, there's no low-level controls available for editing Emvoice's pitch line.


Though it's worth mentioning that there is a "loose tuning" preset option... and Melodyne can edit pitch drift, etc.


----------



## David Cuny

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Though it's worth mentioning that there is a "loose tuning" preset option... and Melodyne can edit pitch drift, etc.


If anyone's got a demo of that, I'd love to hear it. The vocals in the demos are overly robotic.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

David Cuny said:


> If anyone's got a demo of that, I'd love to hear it. The vocals in the demos are overly robotic.


Unfortunately for Keala (at least) the loose tuning seems to introduce more artifacts. However the default does have some dynamism and expressivity. I just tested it a little:

Default:

View attachment emvoice Keala default.mp3


Loose tuning: 

View attachment emvoice Keala loose.mp3


----------



## GtrString

I would never use these things for lead vocals, but for backing vox it would make sense the vocals are a little more flat to not compete with a lead vocal and sit well in the mix.. would have to try first, though, so it’s just untested logic.


----------



## Anthony

GtrString said:


> I would never use these things for lead vocals, but for backing vox it would make sense the vocals are a little more flat to not compete with a lead vocal and sit well in the mix.. would have to try first, though, so it’s just untested logic.


Untested, but sound logic. This was my initial strategy when using vocal VIs. But they've progressed so far recently that I now use them for _lead_ parts as well.


----------



## PrimeEagle

Anthony said:


> Untested, but sound logic. This was my initial strategy when using vocal VIs. But they've progressed so far recently that I now use them for _lead_ parts as well.


I know several people on YouTube have used them for lead vocals without saying anything at first, and nobody noticed. That's not exactly scientific data, but it does say something about how far the technology has come.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

GtrString said:


> Emvoice sounds pretty good, nothing Melodyne and a vocal effect chain wouldn’t solve, imo.


I tried using Melodyne to humanize the pitch and timing a little and add vibrato in places, it sounds perhaps slightly more realistic:

View attachment emvoice Keala default Melodyne humanize.mp3


Trying to do semitone melisma through Melodyne sounded completely unnatural though.

[Edit: I think I accidentally posted the unaltered file here by accident before. It is subtle....]


----------



## Chungus

PrimeEagle said:


> I know several people on YouTube have used them for lead vocals without saying anything at first, and nobody noticed. That's not exactly scientific data, but it does say something about how far the technology has come.


I've fooled a member here into thinking Vocaloid was the real thing, even. Now granted, that was using a Japanese 'singer', which VL handles a hell of a lot better than English. But still!


----------



## szczaw

Keela sounds more realistic than Lucy, but she seems to be half shouting.


----------



## szczaw

Geez, the new Emvoice sounds realistic enough to be irritating. A teen riot worldwide.


----------



## szczaw

Here's  Keela and William.  Realism improved and the sound seems more processed, better out of the box. Good job there. Bad choice of the singer as far I'm concerned.  I hope they record more voices.

View attachment Keela.mp3


----------



## GtrString

I won’t use it for leads because I think it is a waste of good lyrics. People cant hear shi* if the technical side of singing is real/ unreal or semi real.

But if you have great lyrics, with solid artistic intent, you’d want a singer not an AI. For supportive backgrounds, an AI might work in certain projects. These AI demo lyrics are juvenile, at best.

That’s my principles, of course you are free to do as you please too.


----------



## David Cuny

dhmusic said:


> Could you program transitions like a sample crossfade? Like with a starting point, destination, length of transition and slope shape?
> 
> I bet it would be faster than what I do. If I want a really solid choir part it basically becomes a work of pointillism.


I'm going to amend my prior answer, because I've found that cross-fading phonemes to connect them together works surprisingly well.

This doesn't address the problem of fixing a phoneme when it's wrong, but that's not the question here.

I should note that most of the articulation is already outside the cross-fade, but this is something that wouldn't be that hard to do with Reaper, which automatically cross-fades overlapping audio:






The articulation isn't _quite_ correct, but it's pretty smooth:

View attachment aa_l_crossfade_r_iy.mp3


Then again, a small gap between the sounds also works. There's a small fade in/fade out at the end/start of each phoneme. It sounds more like a bit of inflection rather than a stop:






View attachment aa_l_gap_r_iy.mp3


It's not optimal, but it'll do in a pinch.

Still, it's best to have the vocals correct in the first place.


----------



## PrimeEagle

GtrString said:


> I won’t use it for leads because I think it is a waste of good lyrics. People cant hear shi* if the technical side of singing is real/ unreal or semi real.
> 
> But if you have great lyrics, with solid artistic intent, you’d want a singer not an AI. For supportive backgrounds, an AI might work in certain projects. These AI demo lyrics are juvenile, at best.
> 
> That’s my principles, of course you are free to do as you please too.


That assumes, of course, that you have access to a singer and a budget for one. It's kind of like saying to never use VIs, just use a real orchestra. It's true in theory, but isn't practical for most people, especially hobbyists.


----------



## Blancanegra

Not as good for going on stage, but enough for a night of karaoke with friends, haha!

New York, New York (Frank Sinatra)
View attachment New York test.mp3


I've had to create a lot of vibratos using the note vibrato tool, since the autopitch tunning doesn't generate vibratos as deep as Sinatra does. But even needs more depth on most of them, as he sings with lack of passion in the first verses (those first "new york" sound a little off).

For the last note I found insufficient the vibrato depth that can be achieved with the maximum vibrato depth in note properties in conjunction with the maximum value in the vibrato envelope parameter.

Download the project file and enjoy!


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

GtrString said:


> I won’t use it for leads because I think it is a waste of good lyrics. People cant hear shi* if the technical side of singing is real/ unreal or semi real.
> 
> But if you have great lyrics, with solid artistic intent, you’d want a singer not an AI. For supportive backgrounds, an AI might work in certain projects. These AI demo lyrics are juvenile, at best.
> 
> That’s my principles, of course you are free to do as you please too.


If you have great lyrics, the delivery may not matter as much, so long as the lyrics themselves are sufficiently intelligible. These synthetic voices are generally realistic enough not to be excessively distracting either. 

Flat, robotic, or obviously synthetic (or in that uncanny valley between, cyborg bridges spiraling...) delivery is actually preferable in many cases.


----------



## szczaw

GtrString said:


> I won’t use it for leads because I think it is a waste of good lyrics. People cant hear shi* if the technical side of singing is real/ unreal or semi real.
> 
> But if you have great lyrics, with solid artistic intent, you’d want a singer not an AI. For supportive backgrounds, an AI might work in certain projects. These AI demo lyrics are juvenile, at best.
> 
> That’s my principles, of course you are free to do as you please too.


Being able to sequence and emulate vocal is useful, since not everyone can sing. The output is more than adequate for a real singer to follow and rerecord.


----------



## raidergale

A new voice series (Gold) has been announced for SynthV AI. The first voice, Weina, will be released in July. No samples yet, but Dreamtonics made a video to announce the whole series, which will apparently try to bridge the gap between synthesized and real voices even more, and will be focused on professional recording settings.



Weina Hu is credited in the video as "vocal director", but considering the voicebank is called Weina it's possible she's the voice provider too. If that's the case Weina was the official Chinese singing voice for Elsa in Frozen and Isabela Madrigal in Encanto, so it looks like they're going for higher profile voices with this series.

Kanru Hua, the person behind SynthesizerV, said they're also sampling English songs for this. Unclear if he means for Weina (her English is fluent, so it could really help with the cross lingual function) or for the Gold series in general.


----------



## Manuel Cervera

Blancanegra said:


> Not as good for going on stage, but enough for a night of karaoke with friends, haha!
> 
> New York, New York (Frank Sinatra)
> View attachment New York test.mp3
> 
> 
> I've had to create a lot of vibratos using the note vibrato tool, since the autopitch tunning doesn't generate vibratos as deep as Sinatra does. But even needs more depth on most of them, as he sings with lack of passion in the first verses (those first "new york" sound a little off).
> 
> For the last note I found insufficient the vibrato depth that can be achieved with the maximum vibrato depth in note properties in conjunction with the maximum value in the vibrato envelope parameter.
> 
> Download the project file and enjoy!


Wow.
Great.
Incredible.


----------



## soulofsound

Anthony said:


> Thoughts on Emvoice's new Keela voice?



Very useable for backing vocals i think.


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> Not as good for going on stage, but enough for a night of karaoke with friends, haha!
> 
> New York, New York (Frank Sinatra)
> View attachment New York test.mp3
> 
> 
> I've had to create a lot of vibratos using the note vibrato tool, since the autopitch tunning doesn't generate vibratos as deep as Sinatra does. But even needs more depth on most of them, as he sings with lack of passion in the first verses (those first "new york" sound a little off).
> 
> For the last note I found insufficient the vibrato depth that can be achieved with the maximum vibrato depth in note properties in conjunction with the maximum value in the vibrato envelope parameter.
> 
> Download the project file and enjoy!


He sounds unsure.


----------



## Markrs

raidergale said:


> A new voice series (Gold) has been announced for SynthV AI. The first voice, Weina, will be released in July. No samples yet, but Dreamtonics made a video to announce the whole series, which will apparently try to bridge the gap between synthesized and real voices even more, and will be focused on professional recording settings.
> 
> 
> 
> Weina Hu is credited in the video as "vocal director", but considering the voicebank is called Weina it's possible she's the voice provider too. If that's the case Weina was the official Chinese singing voice for Elsa in Frozen and Isabela Madrigal in Encanto, so it looks like they're going for higher profile voices with this series.
> 
> Kanru Hua, the person behind SynthesizerV, said they're also sampling English songs for this. Unclear if he means for Weina (her English is fluent, so it could really help with the cross lingual function) or for the Gold series in general.



According to a facebook post it looks like this will be a subscription service.




Dreamtonics Announces Synthesizer V AI Gold, a Paid Service
The first voice envisioned to be premiered, will be Weina voice that will be performed by Chinese actress/singer Weina Hu.
Video posted on BiliBili https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1mL4y1N7wQ
She will be released in July this year, alongside Weina Hu, who sang the Chinese versions of "Let It Go" and "Into The Unknown," among other things, being her vocal director.
Kanru also confirmed that they are testing songs in English for their database.
Post from Dreamtonics: https://twitter. com/dreamtonics_in/status/1537723373027209217? t=P5aAXrQEBKdJmL9RDqj9g&s=19
Posted by Kanru Hua: https://twitter. com/khuasw/status/1537724493900443649? t=hsqwiFNyQi40E9d6-by65Q&s=19


----------



## madfloyd

Sad that we don't get any idea of what her voice sounds like from the video.


----------



## David Cuny

I'm not thrilled about this being a subscription service. 

*Edit: *It's been clarified that it's *not* a subscription, nor is there any change to the UI. It's simply another voice that's being made available.​
I'm curious about what sort of controls will be available for specifying performance parameters. Currently, there are a lot of parameters that can be tweaked. But I can imagine a single "intensity" option that could move from a whisper to a full-throated vibrato, with the neural network marshaling the parameters together.

It'll be interesting to see what level of granularity these voices offer.


----------



## Blancanegra

madfloyd said:


> Sad that we don't get any idea of what her voice sounds like from the video.


She's the chinesse Disney voice for Frozen, so I guess she would sound like Idina Menzel.

Weina Hu:


Idina Menzel:






I think it's exciting, haha!


----------



## Vlzmusic

Phew, it becomes difficult to keep up with those guys 👦... Unless something changes really drastically, I have a full trust in them, as they always seem to aim for high quality. I agree that the new voices will probably hurt the wallet even more, but since we have quite a few high quality voicebanks already, its not like people won't have anything to play with. Now they will have even more choice, and price segments.

Instrumental situation is worse, in my opinion, and it could gain from having segments of quality, instead of everything now aiming at everyone. I believe because of that, hobbyists pay more, and pro's don't get the cutting edge stuff they would gladly pay extra for.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Vlzmusic said:


> Phew, it becomes difficult to keep up with those guys 👦... Unless something changes really drastically, I have a full trust in them, as they always seem to aim for high quality. I agree that the new voices will probably hurt the wallet even more, but since we have quite a few high quality voicebanks already, its not like people won't have anything to play with. Now they will have even more choice, and price segments.
> 
> Instrumental situation is worse, in my opinion, and it could gain from having segments of quality, instead of everything now aiming at everyone. I believe because of that, hobbyists pay more, and pro's don't get the cutting edge stuff they would gladly pay extra for.


Wonder how high the subscription cost will be, and whether it will be feasible to work with a purchased voice while composing / arranging and do a one-off monthly subscription to do some tweaking to fit the new voice and render. Perhaps wait until you have a bunch of projects ready to focus on mixing....


----------



## Anthony

For me, a subscription service is a good deal when the company that offers it has a large collection of plugins, VIs, or libraries that I'd use but don't want to buy outright. So this would make sense for companies like Native Instruments, East West, Waves, etc. I wonder how this will work for Dreamtronics given that they have comparatively less vocal VIs available.


----------



## ReelToLogic

Hopefully they will offer options to either purchase outright or subscribe. I purchased and have used Synth-V on a couple of tracks but I would not pay a subscription fee for something I only use occasionally.


----------



## Markrs

One of the benefits to the subscription is that it could be a "low cost" way to access many voicebanks in the future. Given how many bedroom producers around the world (including countries with low yearly incomes) it could offer them access to them, that they might not have been able to do if they were buying each voice.

I think it would be good to be able to do both, but I can see how the subscription can open up Synth V to a wider, younger market.

For the company, subscriptions generate regular income which allows to budget more easily and get investment to allow for more recordings to be done.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Markrs said:


> One of the benefits to the subscription is that it could be a "low cost" way to access many voicebanks in the future. Given how many bedroom producers around the world (including countries with low yearly incomes) it could offer them access to them, that they might not have been able to do if they were buying each voice.
> 
> I think it would be good to be able to do both, but I can see how the subscription can open up Synth V to a wider, younger market.
> 
> For the company, subscriptions generate regular income which allows to budget more easily and get investment to allow for more recordings to be done.


"Low cost" in the short term (assuming the subscription price is relatively low). Definitely higher in the long term and probably higher in the mid-term. OTOH there are people who find it practically impossible to accumulate savings (or for whom it might at least take a long time) who might be able to afford a subscription more easily (or at least more immediately...).


----------



## Markrs

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> "Low cost" in the short term (assuming the subscription price is relatively low). Definitely higher in the long term and probably higher in the mid-term. OTOH there are people who find it practically impossible to accumulate savings (or for whom it might at least take a long time) who might be able to afford a subscription more easily (or at least more immediately...).


Indeed, in the longer term it adds up. A big positive would be if it gave the company more revenue to reinvest in something I consider to be one of the most innovative developments in audio at the moment


----------



## raidergale

Worth noting that I see no mention of subscriptions in the Weibo post Dreamtonics shared today. Granted, I don't speak Chinese so I used two translation softwares, Google Translate (which is often inaccurate) and DeepL (which is neural-network based and often yields better results than Google), but neither mention anything about it.
This is the full DeepL translation. Take it with a pinch of salt as it's still being translated from Chinese, but in any case we'll see in a few weeks.


> Synthesizer V AI Gold Series - Weina Concept Video
> 
> Dreamtonics today announced a new line of Synthesizer V AI vocal databases, the Gold Series, and released the first product in the series, the Synthesizer V AI Gold Series Weina concept video.
> 
> The Gold series represents the culmination of the intersection of AI technology and art, and Dreamtoinics has adopted the highest production standards to date, involving professional musicians and experienced recording and production teams, from vocal providers to recording environments, from technical control of recording to vocal sample guidance, all with unprecedented planning and production specifications. The aim is to create the perfect vocal synthesizer for music creators.
> 
> For the upcoming release of the Synthesizer V AI Gold series of vocal databases, Weina has invited renowned singer @HuvinaVOL to be the vocal director and participate in the entire vocal database sampling process. The music studio Walking Up Audio (@ReadySteadySound !) and Sound & Vision Media Studio, two of China's top music production teams, joined forces with Dreamtonics after the Synthesizer V AI Merchen demo track "This Feeling" to provide full recording support and technical guidance for the production of the vocal database.
> 
> The Synthesizer V AI Gold series vocal database Weina is scheduled for release in July 2022, so stay tuned.



("Synthesizer V AI Merchen" is actually "Mo Chen")


----------



## Markrs

raidergale said:


> Worth noting that I see no mention of subscriptions in the Weibo post Dreamtonics shared today. Granted, I don't speak Chinese so I used two translation softwares, Google Translate (which is often inaccurate) and DeepL (which is neural-network based and often yields better results than Google), but neither mention anything about it.
> This is the full DeepL translation. Take it with a pinch of salt as it's still being translated from Chinese, but in any case we'll see in a few weeks.
> 
> 
> ("Synthesizer V AI Merchen" is actually "Mo Chen")


Indeed, I reposted from someone else's translation but I have no idea if the translation is correct


----------



## David Cuny

raidergale said:


> Worth noting that I see no mention of subscriptions in the Weibo post Dreamtonics shared today.


Thanks. I posted the same question on the Dreamtonics forum (which is rarely visited by Dreamtonics staff, but still) in hopes that someone there might have a better translation, and the response I got back was similar.

There's nothing on that forum to indicate a subscription model.

I'd been considering getting the Feng Yi voice, but I suspect I should hold off and start saving my pennies to prepare for the sticker shock of the "Gold" voice instead.


----------



## Koyo

I'm happy the direction the devs at Dreamtronics are taking with the Gold Voice Series. Had been a bit worried at the latest news that they had hired the same teenager anime voice actors from Vocaloid. I wanted trained voice talents for more elaborate and nuanced music than electronic pop and there I have it with Weina, and in English too.
I hope there's no subscription model like purported. Such business is kinda usury.


----------



## Blancanegra

This one has been very easy and quick to edit:

Yesterday (The Beatles)
View attachment Yesterday test.mp3


I have split many long notes to remove or reduce the vibratos generated by autopitch tuning. It's always preferable to drawing the tone by hand.

In the attached project file there are 2 tracks:

MIDI IMPORT: The imported midi I did first in the DAW, with lyrics.
Track1: The edited track.

Compare both tracks and see the difference in vibratos after splitting the notes.

I think it turned out very well and I would love to hear it with other male voices.

Enjoy!


----------



## raidergale

Another quick test with Solaria, this time with Dolores O'Riordan's song, Ordinary Day.
I'm actually waiting for Solaria's vocal modes update before finishing this, because I'm curious to see if there's going to be one more suitable for the chorus.

View attachment OrdinaryDay2.mp3


Update shouldn't be too far off, they said they were aiming for June and my guess is they haven't released it yet because the original song contest for Solaria runs until later today, so they didn't want to give extra features to some people and penalize whoever already submitted their song.


----------



## odod

my humbly submission for solaria contest, i just remembered that today is the last day .. so I had to make it ASAP .. well, it was a quite sad because i dedicated this song to my late friend who just passed away a day before


----------



## Koyo

odod said:


> my humbly submission for solaria contest, i just remembered that today is the last day .. so I had to make it ASAP .. well, it was a quite sad because i dedicated this song to my late friend who just passed away a day before



Very beautifully written. It expresses something very much heartfelt. There are still contests at Eclipsed Sounds?


----------



## curry36

I'm still having a bit of trouble understanding how well a selfmade topline WITHOUT any audio carrier material would sound like after lets say a day of diligent work. 

Are there any good examples for that situation? (Can't read all the 67 pages at the moment)


----------



## curry36

odod said:


> my humbly submission for solaria contest, i just remembered that today is the last day .. so I had to make it ASAP .. well, it was a quite sad because i dedicated this song to my late friend who just passed away a day before



In this example for example the voice sounds waaay too bad for my ears. The composition is nice though, not a critic against you. I'm just wondering if there is a workflow for getting this big quality results on own compositions, compared to the ones that import the original vocal stem as a performance guide. Maybe just singing a performance guide with the own voice - even though not I am not a singer - could it leave a foundation that would be easier to edit?

I'm really close to pulling the trigger, but I'm not interested in cover songs and if this synthish vocaloid sound is the maximum I could get out of an own composition without having to fiddle for weeks, then the software wouldn't be for me I guess.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

curry36 said:


> I'm still having a bit of trouble understanding how well a selfmade topline WITHOUT any audio carrier material would sound like after lets say a day of diligent work.
> 
> Are there any good examples for that situation? (Can't read all the 67 pages at the moment)


None of the clips I've posted in this thread use a carrier, and I think they sound pretty good, but then again I haven't spent a week to polish them since solaria sounds pretty good out of the box, or with minor tweaking. What I don't quite understand is how some people still manage to get it to sound so robotic and fake.


----------



## odod

curry36 said:


> In this example for example the voice sounds waaay too bad for my ears. The composition is nice though, not a critic against you. I'm just wondering if there is a workflow for getting this big quality results on own compositions, compared to the ones that import the original vocal stem as a performance guide. Maybe just singing a performance guide with the own voice - even though not I am not a singer - could it leave a foundation that would be easier to edit?
> 
> I'm really close to pulling the trigger, but I'm not interested in cover songs and if this synthish vocaloid sound is the maximum I could get out of an own composition without having to fiddle for weeks, then the software wouldn't be for me I guess.


Hi, thank you for the input .. maybe it is because it was using the lite version which is limited btw .. 
and at that time i didn't had enough time to edit, because i thought 24 June was the latest day of the submission.


----------



## Koyo

odod said:


> Hi, thank you for the input .. maybe it is because it was using the lite version which is limited btw ..
> and at that time i didn't had enough time to edit, because i thought 24 June was the latest day of the submission.


It sounded like the lite version but I wasn't sure and was too disappointed in the artificiality of the voice. Now I know I'll get better results with the full version.


----------



## curry36

AceAudioHQ said:


> None of the clips I've posted in this thread use a carrier, and I think they sound pretty good, but then again I haven't spent a week to polish them since solaria sounds pretty good out of the box, or with minor tweaking. What I don't quite understand is how some people still manage to get it to sound so robotic and fake.


Nice, I'll have a look for your postings in here!



odod said:


> Hi, thank you for the input .. maybe it is because it was using the lite version which is limited btw ..
> and at that time i didn't had enough time to edit, because i thought 24 June was the latest day of the submission.


I think that explains it, thank you for your reply!


----------



## raidergale

curry36 said:


> I'm still having a bit of trouble understanding how well a selfmade topline WITHOUT any audio carrier material would sound like after lets say a day of diligent work.
> 
> Are there any good examples for that situation? (Can't read all the 67 pages at the moment)


Do you mean "without using external plugins"?
The first example only uses SynthV's automatic tuning + fixes by hand, no external plugins at all.
The second one only uses external plugins for the rap part.
They're covers because, quite honestly, I wouldn't even know where to start when making an original piece of music, but they can give a rough idea of Solaria's vocal quality.





As I said both use SynthV's automatic tuning, so I'm sure better results would be achievable by hand if you know how the voice pitches fluctuate in real singing. I don't think we're quite yet at a level where synthesized voices could be used for a professional recording, but they can certainly be used for demos before recording with an actual singer. Vocaloid definitely wasn't at that level yet, so it's a clear improvement to me.


----------



## mallux

raidergale said:


> I don't think we're quite yet at a level where synthesized voices could be used for a professional recording […]


Depends on your definition of “professional”. I’d be more than happy to have this many listeners on Spotify…


----------



## raidergale

mallux said:


> Depends on your definition of “professional”. I’d be more than happy to have this many listeners on Spotify…


Oh, absolutely, I've been into the Vocaloid fandom for 12+ years, so I know it's definitely popular, I was more talking about western professional, more "mainstream" music. It's a market that vocal synths haven't really breached yet. There was a brief stint where Porter Robinson used Avanna, but even then I wouldn't know if that can be considered mainstream.


----------



## frioventus

I finaly create my first song with Solaria. I think I could have done something a better with the lyrics. At least I satisfied with the realism of the voice.


----------



## Koyo

frioventus said:


> I finaly create my first song with Solaria. I think I could have done something a better with the lyrics. At least I satisfied with the realism of the voice.



Is this the "lite" free version? Something synthetic too or maybe you played with the parameter to lower the tone?


----------



## frioventus

Koyo said:


> Is this the "lite" free version? Something synthetic too or maybe you played with the parameter to lower the tone?


Full version/Synth V Basic. I didn't change parameters to much. Just a few pitch corrections.


----------



## freecham

I started working with Solaria on original songs. I'm not really sure how accurate the note is on the word "skin". I feel like it sounds a little off... I also like the soft side of solaria. Here is a little work in progress, the lyrics are still temporary. 

View attachment MyLittleOne.mp3


----------



## curry36

@AceAudioHQ

I checked all your tracks in this thread and they are def good enough to stand as a demo for vocalists. But there must be some ways to get even closer to the script performances.. it's crazy to see how much the performance is EVERYTHING. Just like it is in the real world.

I wonder if you already tried singing the melodies, then doing the praat thing, and then doing what you'd normally do. Maybe there would be a lot of good starting points you wouldn't be aware of compared to considering so many decisions when programming the entire thing from scratch.

And the rest would be editing, editing, editing. I think Melodyne skills are a great help on this, if you've already seen hundred of vocal pitch curves in Melodyne, you got a better understanding for what works and what doesn't. You already posted some tricks in this thread regarding realistic vibrato, notes shifting upwards/downwards. But still, the gap to those scripted results is huge. Human voice, what an unbeatable boss.

I would really be interested to see somebody trying to sing the own melody with our untrained voice, and then doing the editing on that basis. Other than that there aren't many ideas that come to my mind to give the workflow of Synth V a human touch. Maybe instead of drawing the modulations, trying to record it with a MIDI breath controller. Once I got the software I could test the latter with my Tec BBC 2.

The computer can create the sound, but we cannot provide the machine with the necessary information - how can we improve on that?


----------



## Hataori

curry36 said:


> @AceAudioHQ
> 
> But still, the gap to those scripted results is huge. Human voice, what an unbeatable boss.
> 
> I would really be interested to see somebody trying to sing the own melody with our untrained voice


I would like to point out the importance of a timing in achieving natural speech/singing synthesis.

In most cases a "tuning" starts and ends with manually creating modulations of a pitch and maybe other params, but I claim that the timing is at least as much important as the others for nutural sound.

And also I haven't heard anyone to successfuly create good timing from scratch without any guide from a natural voice. Even if there are AI attempts in singing voice synthesis (Neutrino) and speech synthesizers do it successfully, SynthV doesn't do it at all [EDIT: as I read it - it is too strong, there are some default lengths of phonemes generated, I thought about onsets] and I think it is it's big weakness now.
(not that other synths do it too).
Unfortunately it cannot let you set lengths of phonemes in natural way - this messing with percents is annoing and prevents creating efficient script tools for copying natural timing.

I agree with you and recommend to use your own voice to do at least the timing if you need naturalness. Articulation is a thing anyone can do without much training.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

curry36 said:


> @AceAudioHQ
> 
> I checked all your tracks in this thread and they are def good enough to stand as a demo for vocalists. But there must be some ways to get even closer to the script performances.. it's crazy to see how much the performance is EVERYTHING. Just like it is in the real world.
> 
> I wonder if you already tried singing the melodies, then doing the praat thing, and then doing what you'd normally do. Maybe there would be a lot of good starting points you wouldn't be aware of compared to considering so many decisions when programming the entire thing from scratch.
> 
> And the rest would be editing, editing, editing. I think Melodyne skills are a great help on this, if you've already seen hundred of vocal pitch curves in Melodyne, you got a better understanding for what works and what doesn't. You already posted some tricks in this thread regarding realistic vibrato, notes shifting upwards/downwards. But still, the gap to those scripted results is huge. Human voice, what an unbeatable boss.
> 
> I would really be interested to see somebody trying to sing the own melody with our untrained voice, and then doing the editing on that basis. Other than that there aren't many ideas that come to my mind to give the workflow of Synth V a human touch. Maybe instead of drawing the modulations, trying to record it with a MIDI breath controller. Once I got the software I could test the latter with my Tec BBC 2.
> 
> The computer can create the sound, but we cannot provide the machine with the necessary information - how can we improve on that?



Can you use a sample for expressive pitch variation and timing but then easily change the notes and the words (and then adjust the pitch variation and timing to taste)? Like a different form of sampling, for humanization and expressive performance....


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Hataori said:


> I would like to point out the importance of a timing in achieving natural speech/singing synthesis.
> 
> In most cases a "tuning" starts and ends with manually creating modulations of a pitch and maybe other params, but I claim that the timing is at least as much important as the others for nutural sound.
> 
> And also I haven't heard anyone to successfuly create good timing from scratch without any guide from a natural voice. Even if there are AI attempts in singing voice synthesis (Neutrino) and speech synthesizers do it successfully, SynthV doesn't do it at all [EDIT: as I read it - it is too strong, there are some default lengths of phonemes generated, I thought about onsets] and I think it is it's big weakness now.
> (not that other synths do it too).
> Unfortunately it cannot let you set lengths of phonemes in natural way - this messing with percents is annoing and prevents creating efficient script tools for copying natural timing.
> 
> I agree with you and recommend to use your own voice to do at least the timing if you need naturalness. Articulation is a thing anyone can do without much training.


Wonder if the Gold voices could address this at all... though it's not really an issue for me since I'm a vocalist.


----------



## odod

try to join the Facebook group of Synth V, there's quite a lot of good examples there too


----------



## David Cuny

Hataori said:


> Unfortunately it cannot let you set lengths of phonemes in natural way - this messing with percents is annoing and prevents creating efficient script tools for copying natural timing.


I get your point.

But the timing of phonemes - non-vowels, anyway - _is_ "natural" timing.

The voice provider sang words (or perhaps nonsense syllables), and the phonemes were collected from those recordings, along with their "natural" timing.

When singing, the start of the vowel needs to fall at the beginning of the note. So any consonants are shifted to the prior note. For example, _"I'm sing-ing" _breaks down to the three syllables:

ay m​s ih ng​ih ng​
For timing purposes, the vowel is placed at the start of the note, and the leading consonants to the end of the prior syllable.

ay m s​ih ng​ih ng​
The consonants are likely to be diphones, so they would look more like:

sil_ay ay_m m_s s_ih​ih ih_ng ng_ih​ih ih_ng ng_sil​
By using diphones, the _context _of that timing is captured as well. That is, the */m/* isn't in isolation, but the duration of the */m/* is captured coming from the */ay*/ (am_m) and leading to the */s/* (m_s).

There are a couple caveats here.

First, the duration of the nucleus vowel is set as:

note duration - consonant duration​
So if there are a lot of consonants in a syllable, there won't be much room to articulate the vowel. This is generally handled by setting a minimum duration for the nucleus and speeding up consonants.

The second thing is that _SynthesizerV_ uses a trained neural network. Although it's trained on diphones, it's not clear how much of that information is carried over. There may be some timing information lost in the process.

But it's not entirely accurate to say that it's not capturing phoneme timing information.


----------



## odod

David Cuny said:


> I get your point.
> 
> But the timing of phonemes - non-vowels, anyway - _is_ "natural" timing.
> 
> The voice provider sang words (or perhaps nonsense syllables), and the phonemes were collected from those recordings, along with their "natural" timing.
> 
> When singing, the start of the vowel needs to fall at the beginning of the note. So any consonants are shifted to the prior note. For example, _"I'm sing-ing" _breaks down to the three syllables:
> 
> ay m​s ih ng​ih ng​
> For timing purposes, the vowel is placed at the start of the note, and the leading consonants to the end of the prior syllable.
> 
> ay m s​ih ng​ih ng​
> The consonants are likely to be diphones, so they would look more like:
> 
> sil_ay ay_m m_s s_ih​ih ih_ng ng_ih​ih ih_ng ng_sil​
> By using diphones, the _context _of that timing is captured as well. That is, the */m/* isn't in isolation, but the duration of the */m/* is captured coming from the */ay*/ (am_m) and leading to the */s/* (m_s).
> 
> There are a couple caveats here.
> 
> First, the duration of the nucleus vowel is set as:
> 
> note duration - consonant duration​
> So if there are a lot of consonants in a syllable, there won't be much room to articulate the vowel. This is generally handled by setting a minimum duration for the nucleus and speeding up consonants.
> 
> The second thing is that _SynthesizerV_ uses a trained neural network. Although it's trained on diphones, it's not clear how much of that information is carried over. There may be some timing information lost in the process.
> 
> But it's not entirely accurate to say that it's not capturing phoneme timing information.


I agree with this brief explanation from you David, here's an example of my approach using Synth V to sing Indonesian song .. which is even more challenging with the phonemes, vowel etc ..


----------



## Hataori

David Cuny said:


> But it's not entirely accurate to say that it's not capturing phoneme timing information.


Yes, that's why I changed my strong claim.

From covers I did by copying natural vocals to SynthV I came to some strong opinions,
eg. starting vowels exactly at beat divisions is unnatural.
The lengths of phonemes in most cases didn't match the covered voice (surely bcs of different singing style of the voice bank voice) which didn't sound good/natural. SynthV's AI is not good at this yet.
They are focused on pitch and timbre, timing (automatic/AI) control is insufficient.
I don't like the way the phoneme lengths are changed (consonants by %, vowels by onset, but I get that the synth is not intended for voice copying).

These are my opinions, I don't force it on anyone.


----------



## frioventus

Ahhh man, after I disable the Instant Mode, tuning become much more easy.  I just learned.


----------



## raidergale

Looks like SynthV will add a new rendering mode called "High Dynamics Voice Model", which aims to better reproduce variations in dynamics in the human voice by analizing multiple takes of the same phrase.
The demonstration video is only in Chinese as of now, but it does showcase a new female vocal singing in English (possibly Weina? Unknown as of yet), alongside demos using Kevin, Ryo and Feng Yi.

Considering the example showcases both a take with "0%" and one with "90%", I'm going to assume it's going to be slider based like most other SynthV features.


----------



## Chungus

Speaking of rendering modes, a while back, I read Solaria was due to get new voice options. Have those been implemented yet?


----------



## raidergale

English video about the High Dynamics Voice Model has been released. It doesn't really say anything that couldn't be gathered from the Chinese one to be honest.





Chungus said:


> Speaking of rendering modes, a while back, I read Solaria was due to get new voice options. Have those been implemented yet?


Not yet, Eclipsed Sounds replied to someone on Twitter asking about them and said that they're development complete, but are currently (5 days ago) undergoing internal testing and evaluation.


----------



## frioventus

New female vocal sounds gorgeous! 🤯


----------



## baggage

Demo of 3 of the New Vocal modes - Soft, Airy, & Power

7 modes total - Light, Clear, Soft, Airy, Power, Passionate, & Solid

coming out within the next two weeks as a free update


----------



## Werty

giant steps for voice software! but ehm, I wish I could say the same for piano and strings...


----------



## Vlzmusic

Werty said:


> giant steps for voice software! but ehm, I wish I could say the same for piano and strings...


All the sample bizz starts to look ridiculous with each step further Dreamtonics makes... every two months nowadays?


----------



## Werty

Vlzmusic said:


> All the sample bizz starts to look ridiculous with each step further Dreamtonics makes... every two months nowadays?


yes, for piano vst, I would say that after the release of Galaxy Vintage D, nothing new really happened.


----------



## Chungus

baggage said:


> Demo of 3 of the New Vocal modes - Soft, Airy, & Power
> 
> 7 modes total - Light, Clear, Soft, Airy, Power, Passionate, & Solid
> 
> coming out within the next two weeks as a free update



Hnnnnnggg! It sounds so good! I can't wait for this to drop.


----------



## soulofsound

baggage said:


> Demo of 3 of the New Vocal modes - Soft, Airy, & Power
> 
> 7 modes total - Light, Clear, Soft, Airy, Power, Passionate, & Solid
> 
> coming out within the next two weeks as a free update



This is brilliant. So inspiring.


----------



## ScarletJerry

I really want to get Solaria now. I wonder if I should just buy it or wait until the update comes out. Even though people say it will be free....


----------



## David Cuny

ScarletJerry said:


> I really want to get Solaria now. I wonder if I should just buy it or wait until the update comes out. Even though people say it will be free....


Yes, the upgrade will be free.

There's no point in waiting for the update, as it won't be cheaper, and you won't miss out on the upgrade.


----------



## ScarletJerry

David Cuny said:


> Yes, the upgrade will be free.
> 
> There's no point in waiting for the update, as it won't be cheaper, and you won't miss out on the upgrade.


Yes, I took the plunge. Now I’m waiting for my Solaris activation code. They need to get an automatic code generator like other developers. I hope it takes less than 24 hours.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

ScarletJerry said:


> I really want to get Solaria now. I wonder if I should just buy it or wait until the update comes out. Even though people say it will be free....


I've been on the verge of taking the plunge on Kevin + SynthV Pro + Solaria, but I'm going to wait to hear what the Gold voices are like---specifically whether they're really much more realistic and expressive, and whether they have timbres I prefer and better cross-lingual (and how much they cost... will they be significantly more expensive than getting two standard voices?).

And I'm finally going to get around to trying to morph my vocals with some of the acapella demos with no or minimal reverb (though morphing results will almost certainly be better when I use PRAAT and the timing of my vocals to generate the Synth V content, or if I morph between two Synth V voices based on the same pitch/timing).


----------



## ScarletJerry

Got my Solaria activation code this morning. I’ve been playing around with it for a few hours, and I just came up for air. It’s a huge rabbit hole, and the technology is pretty amazing! I can see the need to tweak settings after you import the MIDI data, but I’m eager to learn. Hopefully, I’ll have something to share next weekend.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Chungus

Continuing the trend of my trying to jury rig voices into things they're really not meant for, this time, I tried to make Eleanor Forte Lite sing opera. In Latin, no less. An excerpt from the opening theme of Elfen Lied*

Does it work? No, not really. But I'd say it also doesn't _not_ work. lol

*don't watch it, it's shit.


----------



## ScarletJerry

Congrats for even attempting to do this. It sounded much better than I expected. This kind of experimentation will allow all of us to dream of possibilities with this technology. Exciting times are ahead!

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## frioventus

Finallly! 🤩


----------



## David Cuny

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> I've been on the verge of taking the plunge on Kevin + SynthV Pro + Solaria, but I'm going to wait to hear what the Gold voices are like---specifically whether they're really much more realistic and expressive, and whether they have timbres I prefer and better cross-lingual (and how much they cost... will they be significantly more expensive than getting two standard voices?).


On the _SynthesizerV _user forum, someone posted a translation of this Twitter post (emphasis added by me):



> As announced by Dreamtonics, Synthesizer V AI's "GOLD series" will be the series name of the singing voice database created by a specific producer in China. *There is no difference in function or quality from other Synthesizer V AI singing voice databases*, so please continue to use it with confidence.


----------



## Vardaro

Chungus said:


> Continuing the trend of my trying to jury rig voices into things they're really not meant for, this time, I tried to make Eleanor Forte Lite sing opera. In Latin, no less. An excerpt from the opening theme of Elfen Lied*
> 
> Does it work? No, not really. But I'd say it also doesn't _not_ work. lol
> 
> *don't watch it, it's shit.


Promising timbre, but way too mechanical.. I Maybe you could use a small %age of the AI tricks: opera singers scoop and twist like pop singers (but differently!), and their vibratos are usually (too) heavy and constant. Vowels would have to be "yawned" (maybe by formant shifting?)


----------



## Chungus

Vardaro said:


> Promising timbre, but way too mechanical.. I Maybe you could use a small %age of the AI tricks: opera singers scoop and twist like pop singers (but differently!), and their vibratos are usually (too) heavy and constant. Vowels would have to be "yawned" (maybe by formant shifting?)


What's formant shifting?


----------



## David Cuny

Chungus said:


> What's formant shifting?


Formants are resonant frequencies that distinguish one voiced phoneme from another. They are independent of the underlying pitch, which is why an */e/* still sounds like an */e/*, even when it's sung at different pitches.

Formants are formed in the resonating chambers created by different oral postures - mostly through tongue placement. The nasal chamber adds some resonance as well, but you don't have as much control over that.

The length of the oral cavity differs from person to person, so for men, the frequency of the formants tends to be lower than it is for women.

You can shift the position of the formants in _SynthesizerV_ by modifying the *Gender* parameter. Moving the parameter toward "Male" shifts the formants down, and toward "Female" shifts them upward.

This is useful for providing some variety to the timbre - for example, making a vowel sound "rounder" (voiced further back in the mouth).


----------



## jbuhler

I finally have the time and mental space to get Synth V. I've purchased Synth V Studio Pro and the Kevin voice. I've downloaded and installed both. I've also downloaded several of the free voices to play around with. I've installed Praat. I've downloaded @Hataori's script, but am not yet sure where to install that in MacOS. Now I'm looking for orienting tutorials.

There's the manual: 


Quickstart Guide



And the Dreamtonics tutorials on YouTube: 


I see @Hataori's tutorial series:


Any others I should be aware of?


----------



## parapentep70

Vardaro said:


> Promising timbre, but way too mechanical.. I Maybe you could use a small %age of the AI tricks: opera singers scoop and twist like pop singers (but differently!), and their vibratos are usually (too) heavy and constant. Vowels would have to be "yawned" (maybe by formant shifting?)


Long ago I read about opera singers (specifically sopranos) and formant shifting. 

Formants are the envelope of the spectral peaks (harmonics). When the pitch is ultra high in the highest notes by a soprano, the "peaks and valleys in the envelope" (formants) only cover maybe 3 or 4 harmonics. There is no real "envelope", but just 3 or 4 spectral lines. Some wovels are no longer what they should be... simply because it is not possible to fit these harmonics. It has nothing to do with technique! Then the singers must shift the wovel to some other that sounds almost as (in)accurate, but with resonance in the (FEW!) harmonics just to be heard. This problem becomes smaller or inexistent when singing lower notes


----------



## David Cuny

parapentep70 said:


> Formants are the envelope of the spectral peaks (harmonics). When the pitch is ultra high in the highest notes by a soprano, the "peaks and valleys in the envelope" (formants) only cover maybe 3 or 4 harmonics.



Yeah, that's a real problem! We distinguish most vowels the the relationship between the first and second formants (named "F1" and "F2"), while the vocal cords provide the fundamental pitch ("F0") and overtones.

The image below shows the harmonic spectrum of a vowel, with the peaks being the resonances created when the glottal pulse moves through the mouth and chambers created by the tongue:






The _exact_ frequencies of these frequencies varies from person to person, but as long as they're in the general neighborhood relative to each other, we'll correctly identify the sound.

As *parapentep70* noted, it's not just the fundamental pitch, but also all the harmonics (frequencies at integer multiples of the fundamental pitch) that make up the harmonic content spectral curve.

It's the peaks in the curves (the resonances) that we use to distinguish one voiced phoneme from another.

So as long as the fundamental pitch is below F1, there are plenty of harmonics to fill out the spectral envelope (that red line of hills and valleys).

But when a singer's pitch goes _higher _than F1 (or F2), the resonances _below_ the fundamental frequency disappear, and there just isn't enough information in the sound to distinguish the vowels from each other.


----------



## Chungus

David Cuny said:


> Formants are resonant frequencies that distinguish one voiced phoneme from another. They are independent of the underlying pitch, which is why an */e/* still sounds like an */e/*, even when it's sung at different pitches.
> 
> Formants are formed in the resonating chambers created by different oral postures - mostly through tongue placement. The nasal chamber adds some resonance as well, but you don't have as much control over that.
> 
> The length of the oral cavity differs from person to person, so for men, the frequency of the formants tends to be lower than it is for women.
> 
> You can shift the position of the formants in _SynthesizerV_ by modifying the *Gender* parameter. Moving the parameter toward "Male" shifts the formants down, and toward "Female" shifts them upward.
> 
> This is useful for providing some variety to the timbre - for example, making a vowel sound "rounder" (voiced further back in the mouth).


Haha, yeah, not gonna lay, that's going way over my head.  As a rule of thumb, where should something like this be applied?


----------



## [Alpha]-0mega-

David Cuny said:


> On the _SynthesizerV _user forum, someone posted a translation of this Twitter post (emphasis added by me):


Well they did say they're working with more well known vocalists for the gold series, so I find it hard to believe that there will be no audible difference in quality, in terms of the vocal range / vocal modes / overall vocal quality of the voice.

I'm guessing the main idea is that although the fundamental techniques are the same, the vocalist may be more skilled and they might sample deeper / more styles than they traditionally do. (Imagine creating 10 more Solarias with the vocal modes, in different styles and genders, compared to creating 10 more Kevins or Ryos)

I would be surprised if the artist involved wouldn't raise the bar to a higher level. (And also increases the price to reflect on them as higher quality voicebanks versus getting an "unknown" vocal artist)

But we'll see soon enough I guess.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

[Alpha]-0mega- said:


> Well they did say they're working with more well known vocalists for the gold series, so I find it hard to believe that there will be no audible difference in quality, in terms of the vocal range / vocal modes / overal vocal quality of the voice.
> 
> I'm guessing the main idea is that although the fundamental techniques are the same, the vocalist may be more skilled and they might sample deeper / more styles than they traditionally do. (Imagine creating 10 more Solarias with the vocal modes, in different styles and genders, compared to creating 10 more Kevins or Ryos)
> 
> I would be surprised if the artist involved wouldn't raise the bar to a higher level. (And also increases the price to reflect on them as higher quality voicebanks versus getting an "unknown" vocal artist)
> 
> But we'll see soon enough I guess.


Guess there's still not much reason to hope for better English cross-lingual (or a new English language male vocalist) from Gold though? Since I guess the focus will be on the Chinese market....


----------



## David Cuny

Chungus said:


> Haha, yeah, not gonna lay, that's going way over my head.  As a rule of thumb, where should something like this be applied?


As with everything music-related, use your ears and apply to taste. 

Moving toward "Male" gets you a darker sound, "Female" a brighter tone.

At the *Voice* level, you can apply it to get a deeper/lighter/younger/older sound.

In the *Automation* lane, you can use it to shape the timbre to give it a bit more change and variety.


----------



## baggage

Solaria's update is live!


----------



## cnogradi

Do any of you voice VI experts have any suggestions on vocal theory courses. My daughter and I are trying to learn the intricacies of the voice and the various singing techniques so that we can have a better mastery of Synth V. Any recommendation on technical courses. We are not interested in all the pop/rock singing lessons which seem to abound but the underlying fundamentals, techniques, science and physics. Thanks in advance


----------



## Blancanegra

A synth-pop test with Kevin, the hit Take on me (A-Ha):

View attachment Take on me test.mp3


It's probably the song with the widest tessitura shown in a chorus.

Some long notes are slightly out of tune, being very noticeable on the last note, flat at both ends. You'd expect such a long note to be mostly in tune, but autopitch tuning doesn't produce the expected result (AI training samples were short and then are streched to fit the note length?). It would have to be corrected manually but I'm not a fan of drawing the pitch.
I think the autopitch tuning tool should be expanded with more options to correct those deviations without drawing.

Anyway, here I leave the project file for those who want to study it. Enjoy!


----------



## Blancanegra

cnogradi said:


> Do any of you voice VI experts have any suggestions on vocal theory courses. My daughter and I are trying to learn the intricacies of the voice and the various singing techniques so that we can have a better mastery of Synth V. Any recommendation on technical courses. We are not interested in all the pop/rock singing lessons which seem to abound but the underlying fundamentals, techniques, science and physics. Thanks in advance


I found this youtube channel very interesting, the conductor Justin Stoney is a very charming person: https://www.youtube.com/c/NewYorkVocalCoaching/playlists


----------



## [Alpha]-0mega-

For some reason Solaria's Power Vocal Mode sounds like she's belting at the microphone from a large distance compared to the other modes. It's the only one for which the volume seems really off compared to the other vocal modes.

Now I would love to say that I'm just an amateur that doesn't realize that this is a necessity for the way she sings in the power vocal mode, but I have the feeling that something's not right here in terms of how the volume is normalized compared to the other modes.. :'(


----------



## Blancanegra

[Alpha]-0mega- said:


> For some reason Solaria's Power Vocal Mode sounds like she's belting at the microphone from a large distance compared to the other modes. It's the only one for which the volume seems really off compared to the other vocal modes.
> 
> Now I would love to say that I'm just an amateur that doesn't realize that this is a necessity for the way she sings in the power vocal mode, but I have the feeling that something's not right here in terms of how the volume is normalized compared to the other modes.. :'(


The same happens with Kevin. I use loudness parameter to compensate.


----------



## mallux

Blancanegra said:


> A synth-pop test with Kevin, the one-hit wonder Take on me (A-Ha):


"one-hit wonder"? Bloody cheek, they had loads of hits, and are one of the greatest selling pop acts of all time. Just not in the USA.


----------



## jblongz

I find Mo Chen really convincing. Looking forward to more diverse voices. 

So far it’s a chore to work in the plug-in, but I look forward to the evolution.

Feature request: Chris Brown voice


----------



## Blancanegra

mallux said:


> "one-hit wonder"? Bloody cheek, they had loads of hits, and are one of the greatest selling pop acts of all time. Just not in the USA.


My plan to change the success of the band has failed, haha!
Corrected now, it has been a bad choice on my part of the term to designate his best-known song (I'm Spanish), sorry!


----------



## raidergale

Tested out Solaria's new vocal modes with Paramore's 2007 song, Misery Business. I mainly used Power and Passionate here. I feel like Solaria can now fit some harsher sounding commercial songs like this a lot better than before. I've used Hataori's RealVoice script as a base for the tuning


----------



## mallux

Blancanegra said:


> My plan to change the success of the band has failed, haha!
> Corrected now, it has been a bad choice on my part of the term to designate his best-known song (I'm Spanish), sorry!


LOL no problem, and even though Morten Harket has such a brilliant distinctive voice (and can still hit those high notes, after all these years), your rendition with Kevin is pretty good; I think his range and timbre are very reminiscent of Morten's and suit the song well.


----------



## frioventus

This vocal mode of Solaria is much more important than I thought. Its just like we got new voice libraries for free. I think I will use the soft voice a lot.


----------



## philthevoid

raidergale said:


> Tested out Solaria's new vocal modes with Paramore's 2007 song, Misery Business. I mainly used Power and Passionate here. I feel like Solaria can now fit some harsher sounding commercial songs like this a lot better than before. I've used Hataori's RealVoice script as a base for the tuning



The litte growl at 2:40 almost gave me goosebumps. First time that's ever happened to me in months of listening to tons of Synth-V projects.

Sounds promising, nice work!


----------



## raidergale

I've also made a quick test of her Soft + Passionate vocal modes with Postmodern Jukebox's cover of Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah.
I really feel Solaria is a must have now, she's extremely flexible and can cover a big range of genres.

View attachment Hallelujah2.mp3


----------



## cambler

Dumb question but how do you get the Solaria update? There’s no account area as such on the site, nor a downloads section.

Loving all the examples here! Great work all.


----------



## [Alpha]-0mega-

cambler said:


> Dumb question but how do you get the Solaria update? There’s no account area as such on the site, nor a downloads section.
> 
> Loving all the examples here! Great work all.


There's a tab in the software that shows all the installed packages. It has a check for updates button. If a package has an update, tap it and then tap the update button.


----------



## cambler

[Alpha]-0mega- said:


> There's a tab in the software that shows all the installed packages. It has a check for updates button. If a package has an update, tap it and then tap the update button.


Thankyou!


----------



## mallux

Has anyone else noticed a discernable drop in quality for solaria v103 compared to v101? Sounds a bit like the Lite version (yes I double checked I’m not _actually _using Lite). There are a couple of replies to the eclipsed sounds twitter thread that say the same…


----------



## David Cuny

cnogradi said:


> Do any of you voice VI experts have any suggestions on vocal theory courses. My daughter and I are trying to learn the intricacies of the voice and the various singing techniques so that we can have a better mastery of Synth V. Any recommendation on technical courses. We are not interested in all the pop/rock singing lessons which seem to abound but the underlying fundamentals, techniques, science and physics. Thanks in advance


That's a bit like asking what courses you could take to understand the physics of instruments in order to better master a VI violin.

If you were building a vocal synthesizer from scratch, that would make sense. But _SynthV_ gives you a number of limited parameters you can adjust, and you can understand how to use them without having to understand the underlying physics at all.

For example, I could (and do) yammer on all day about formants and how they relate to the *Gender* parameter.

But all you _really_ need to know is that the *Gender* parameter will adjust the timbre of the voice to a more masculine or feminine voice. You can adjust it in the *Voice* settings to chance the overall sound of the voice, or in the *Parameters* to make modifications on a note-by-note basis.

And even if you _do_ understand the underlying physics, you've only got the controls that _SynthV_ gives you, so you can't really extend them.

It's the same thing with the rest of the parameters. 

Other than *Tone Shift*, you can pretty much change the parameter, listen to what it does, and apply that knowledge if you've got decent ears.

I think the _best_ way is to look at other people's _SynthesizerV_ files and see what they do. I've learned much more that way than reading and understanding the mechanics of vocal production.

That said, drop me a line and maybe I can answer actually your question. I've been doing vocal synthesis for a while, so I might be able to point you to some resources or even answer some questions myself.


----------



## ScarletJerry

mallux said:


> Has anyone else noticed a discernable drop in quality for solaria v103 compared to v101? Sounds a bit like the Lite version (yes I double checked I’m not _actually _using Lite). There are a couple of replies to the eclipsed sounds twitter thread that say the same…


So would you recommend on holding off on the update? I checked Twitter, it I could Not find the thread, but thanks for letting us know. I may hold off on updating it for now.


----------



## mallux

ScarletJerry said:


> So would you recommend on holding off on the update? I checked Twitter, it I could Not find the thread, but thanks for letting us know. I may hold off on updating it for now.


I would exercise some caution, yes. I don't actually know how to roll back to the previous version.

Twitter thread: 

Here's a comparison, judge for yourself... (disclaimer: Vi-C won't let me upload the original wavs, so I had to convert them to mp3).

I've also attached the SVP, would be helpful if someone could render it with v103 and see if you get the same result, just to rule out any issues with my machine.


----------



## frioventus

There is definitely a difference in the default sound, but it is not worst than lite or anything. The sound is similar to version 101. There are only minor dynamic changes.


----------



## mallux

frioventus said:


> There is definitely a difference in the default sound, but it is not worst than lite or anything. The sound is similar to version 101. There are only minor dynamic changes.


It's not worse than lite, but to my ears it's as bad as lite.

Anyway, Eclipsed emailed me to say they have been investigating the issue, and "will be moving forward with Dreamtonics to find a solution". They also provided a download link to the v101 version in case I wanted to roll back. Not going to share the link, but if you need it I'd use the contact form on their website.


----------



## ScarletJerry

mallux said:


> It's not worse than lite, but to my ears it's as bad as lite.
> 
> Anyway, Eclipsed emailed me to say they have been investigating the issue, and "will be moving forward with Dreamtonics to find a solution". They also provided a download link to the v101 version in case I wanted to roll back. Not going to share the link, but if you need it I'd use the contact form on their website.


This makes me wonder - is there a way to back up the voices? Where are they stored?


----------



## baggage

ScarletJerry said:


> This makes me wonder - is there a way to back up the voices? Where are they stored?


in the licences and Updates tab of synth v studio, it shows the installation paths, for example -

Still crazy that SOLARIA, even with the updates, is only about 26 Megabytes in size!


----------



## ScarletJerry

The memory size is crazy. I always thought that there were other files that contained the samples, but if that’s the real size, it is incredible.


----------



## David Cuny

ScarletJerry said:


> The memory size is crazy. I always thought that there were other files that contained the samples, but if that’s the real size, it is incredible.


The AI version is a neural network, so yes - it's _much_ smaller than storing the samples.

Not that it ever really stored the samples in the first place. The non-AI version stored the analysis, which consisted points describing the spectral curve, phase information, and things like that. That is, analysis of the audio data needed to reconstruct the vocal, but not the digital samples themselves.


----------



## ScarletJerry

David Cuny said:


> The AI version is a neural network, so yes - it's _much_ smaller than storing the samples.
> 
> Not that it ever really stored the samples in the first place. The non-AI version stored the analysis, which consisted points describing the spectral curve, phase information, and things like that. That is, analysis of the audio data needed to reconstruct the vocal, but not the digital samples themselves.


So where are the digital samples stored?


----------



## David Cuny

ScarletJerry said:


> So where are the digital samples stored?


It never used digital samples.

You can think of _SynthesizerV_ as a sophisticated vocoder. Even prior to the AI version, it stored the information _about _the sound (the spectral envelope, noise spectrum, glottal pulse phases) obtained via analysis. It then used this information to reconstruct the sound.

The AI version of the program is a neural network that's been trained on what those settings are. The result is that it takes even less room on the disk drive (though it's slower to render and more lossy).

Here's what Kanru wrote a number of years ago about the LLSM (low-level speech model) that _SynthesizerV_ uses:



> Long Introduction​Speech signals can be understood at different levels of abstraction, from the physical level of articulator movements and propagation of airflow to the acoustic level of Fourier spectra.
> 
> In the past, when we say "make the voice brighter", we actually meant turning up the high frequency knob in an equalizer. This is a pure acoustic understanding that is implementation-friendly, but it doesn't make direct sense to the singer. libllsm2 seeks to establish a link between these understandings so that modifications are more faithful to how voice is produced, and this link is crucial to high-quality pitch shifting.
> 
> LLSM is a two-layer model of speech. The first layer (layer 0) is a harmonic + noise model (HNM); the second layer (layer 1) reinterprets the harmonic parameters in a source-filter setting. From a compositional point of view, layer 0 decomposes speech into periodic and aperiodic parts, and the periodic part is further decomposed into parts related to glottis and vocal tract in layer 1.
> More technically intensive introduction​Specifically, the layer 0 parametrization consists of the amplitude and phases of the harmonics, power spectral density of the noise, and another harmonic model describing the temporal shape of the noise. The layer 1 parametrization consists of a temporally and spectrally smooth spectral envelope (for an approximated vocal tract transfer function) and parameters for a glottal model.
> 
> The analysis procedure goes as the follows. First the fundamental frequency (F0) is estimated using an external library (e.g. libpyin, Nebula). Given the F0 estimation, libllsm2 extracts layer 0 parameters from the speech. Next and optionally, the user may ask libllsm2 to augment the existing representation with layer 1 parameters.
> 
> Synthesis is basically to reverse the analysis steps (layer 1 -> layer 0 -> speech). However, libllsm2 can also directly synthesize from layer 1 without going through the harmonic model, and this is much in the same fashion as inverse FFT based vocoders such as WORLD. The direct synthesis pathway, termed as Pulse-by-Pulse (PbP) synthesis, is carefully implemented to give pretty much the same result as a harmonic model, but has some additional advantages when it comes to parameter modification. Real-time synthesis is also supported for both harmonic and PbP synthesis.


----------



## Blancanegra

A month ago today I had this test done, but due to workload I forgot to publish it here.

Last night I made some final touches to improve the interpretation and I'm quite satisfied with the result, I hope you like it as much as I do.


Angels (Robbie Williams)
View attachment Angels test.mp3


Download the SVP project file and enjoy!

As (almost) always the project includes a track with the imported midi so that it can be compared with the changes made in the final track.


----------



## ScarletJerry

David Cuny said:


> It never used digital samples.
> 
> You can think of _SynthesizerV_ as a sophisticated vocoder. Even prior to the AI version, it stored the information _about _the sound (the spectral envelope, noise spectrum, glottal pulse phases) obtained via analysis. It then used this information to reconstruct the sound.
> 
> The AI version of the program is a neural network that's been trained on what those settings are. The result is that it takes even less room on the disk drive (though it's slower to render and more lossy).
> 
> Here's what Kanru wrote a number of years ago about the LLSM (low-level speech model) that _SynthesizerV_ uses:


Fascinating. So there are no samples at all? Now wonder the file size is so small. I don’t fully understand neural networks, but it sounds like the voice is actually being rendered based on characteristics of the singer’s voice rather than being sampled. What I don’t understand is how do they capture a particular singer? Does she sing a series of syllables or phrases that can be analyzed? I will have to research more about how this technology works. It sounds like, in a way, how products like Pianoteq physically model a piano rather than sample it.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## David Cuny

ScarletJerry said:


> What I don’t understand is how do they capture a particular singer? Does she sing a series of syllables or phrases that can be analyzed?


Yes, exactly.

At a minimum, the singer needs to sing all possible phoneme combinations. There are about 50 phonemes in English. The original version of _SynthV_ allowed up to 2 alternate takes of phonemes to be selected.

"Basic" voices are sampled at only one pitch. More advanced voices are sampled at 3-4 pitches across the vocal range.

To synthesize the voice, these transitions from one phoneme to another ("diphones") are assembled and stretched to match the note durations. This process is called "concatenative synthesis".


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> Yes, exactly.
> 
> At a minimum, the singer needs to sing all possible phoneme combinations. There are about 50 phonemes in English. The original version of _SynthV_ allowed up to 2 alternate takes of phonemes to be selected.
> 
> "Basic" voices are sampled at only one pitch. More advanced voices are samplde at 3-4 pitches across the vocal range.
> 
> To synthesize the voice, these transitions from one phoneme to another ("diphones") are assembled and stretched to match the note durations. This process is called "concatenative synthesis".


My guess is that probably more pitches are sampled for vowel diphones (since there are not too many) in addition to the ones needed for soft or tense vowels (tension parameter) and finally other sets of vowel samples for the vocal modes.


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> My guess is that probably more pitches are sampled for vowel diphones (since there are not too many) in addition to the ones needed for soft or tense vowels (tension parameter) and finally other sets of vowel samples for the vocal modes.


The parameters such as "tension" are a function of the synthesis engine, so they don't require additional sampling. The synthesis engine controls characteristics of the glottal pulse, which is what is altered when you modify the tension parameter.

With vocal modes, the neural network has been trained to transform the voice. So adding vocal modes to old voices is a matter of modifying the neural network, not resampling the voice provider.

Although - to your point -_ someone_ had to provide the initial voice data the neural network was trained on to transform the voice.

But it wasn't the original voice provider.


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> A month ago today I had this test done, but due to workload I forgot to publish it here.
> 
> Last night I made some final touches to improve the interpretation and I'm quite satisfied with the result, I hope you like it as much as I do.
> 
> 
> Angels (Robbie Williams)
> View attachment Angels test.mp3
> 
> 
> Download the SVP project file and enjoy!
> 
> As (almost) always the project includes a track with the imported midi so that it can be compared with the changes made in the final track.



In this and your other demos, how do you erase the vocal from the backing music?


----------



## pianistje

So i updated Solaria last night after following this topic closely. And yes the update has a lesser quality than what i had before updating. I hear some timing improvements etc. and some exciting vocal modes. But the overal sound quality is LESS. And pretty obvious too. Very strange indeed !


----------



## Loïc D

Hi, I just bought Solaria and I also feel like the sound quality is inferior in 1.03.
But I’m total noobie with it so maybe I’m the one guilty.
Can you confirm that the modes are available only within Studio Pro ?
So far I only have Studio Basic.
That said, I was able to get a pretty good result on a 2-minutes performance for a musical within a couple of hours. That is stunning !!!

Now I’m hesitating to get Studio Pro + a voice pack (Kevin?)…


----------



## Blancanegra

Loïc D said:


> Hi, I just bought Solaria and I also feel like the sound quality is inferior in 1.03.
> But I’m total noobie with it so maybe I’m the one guilty.
> Can you confirm that the modes are available only within Studio Pro ?
> So far I only have Studio Basic.
> That said, I was able to get a pretty good result on a 2-minutes performance for a musical within a couple of hours. That is stunning !!!
> 
> Now I’m hesitating to get Studio Pro + a voice pack (Kevin?)…


I didn't tried the update and can't judge the audio quality, but I have been able to appreciate (from some tests that I have listened from other users) that Solaria's timbre has improved throughout the vocal range, with softer tone in the low range and brighter and more tense in the high range.
In any case, they are facing the problem and sooner rather than later there will be a solution.


*Available in Studio Pro version:*

Vocal modes
Unlimited number of tracks
Live Rendering System scaled up to all CPU cores (faster response)
LUA scripting
Aspiration Output render option that separates the airy part from singing voice
Alternative phoneme pronunciation switches in Note Properties (doesn't work in 1.6.1 )


I posted in this forum some demos with Kevin including the project files, covering different styles, voice range (low, medium, high) and timbre (soft, breathy, belt...):

Careless whisper (George Michael)
Yesterday (The Beatles)
Everybody's talking (Harry Nilsson)
Song sung blue (Neil Diamond)
Please don't go (Double You)
New york, New York (Frank Sinatra)
Fake plastic trees (Radiohead)
Angels (Robbie Williams)
Don't stop believing (Journey)
Eye of the tiger (Survivor)
Is this love (Whitesnake)
Where the streets have no name (U2)
Believe it or not (Joey Scarbury)
Bring him home (Les Misérables)
Shallow (Bradley Cooper & Lady Gaga)
Come what may (Obi-Wan McGregor)
Take on me (A-Ha)

... and some more.


----------



## Blancanegra

soulofsound said:


> In this and your other demos, how do you erase the vocal from the backing music?


I do a search to get the tracks without the vocals.


----------



## Blancanegra

First demo of Weina!, price would be around 132$:



Demo song video:






Weina 原创《昭昭飞絮，春残缺》 | 中文 AI 女声试唱 | Gold 系列 | 杜比全景声_哔哩哔哩_bilibili


Dreamtonics 于 2022 年 7 月 9 日发布中文女声 AI 歌声数据库——Weina，2022 年 7 月 21 日正式上市。Weina 是 Dramtonics 旗下旗舰产品系列 Synthesizer V AI Gold Series 的首款产品，代表迄今最高规格的制作水准与声音质量，将成为创作者麾下不可或缺的合成歌声。素质优秀的歌声基底为 Weina 的演唱风格开辟了无数可能, 视频播放量 26506、弹幕量 55、点赞数 1575、投硬币枚数 623、收藏人数 815、转发人数 581, 视频作者 Dreamtonics, 作者简介...




www.bilibili.com





Wow, I love the tone!


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

soulofsound said:


> In this and your other demos, how do you erase the vocal from the backing music?





Blancanegra said:


> I do a search to get the tracks without the vocals.


Google search for isolated vocals?

Anyone know if any subscription streaming services have high quality isolated vocal tracks that aren't readily available for free without subscription?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Yea the (solaria) quality is way worse after the new update. You don't necessarily hear it so much in a song but when you solo the vocals, it has some bitcrusher-type artifacts/kazoo effect

The La's - There she goes

with Solaria 1.01:

View attachment tsg_v101.mp3


with Solaria 1.03:

View attachment tsg_v103.mp3


There's clearly some more "breath" in it with the exact same settings, and it sounds very unnatural and bad


----------



## Koyo

Is there a phoneme chart available from Dreamtronics for the Chinese voices? It would make consider purchasing or not such voices.
EDIT: I found it.
EDIT 2: however, I found this in Dreamtronics' forum:
SarielV
Dec '20

I was playing with Chiyu last month in an attempt to make a sound chart. The XSampa/Arpabet/IPA relations don’t always work well with relating what the phoneme is supposed to sound like versus what I think it sounds like. In general, I find the pinyin dictionary in synth v holds better to actual pronunciation than the X-Sampa romanizations.
This site is really good for demonstrating how particular pinyin/phonemes will sound:
https://chinesepod.com/tools/pronunciation/section/1 15


----------



## AceAudioHQ

soulofsound said:


> In this and your other demos, how do you erase the vocal from the backing music?





https://vocalremover.org/


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

AceAudioHQ said:


> https://vocalremover.org/


Interesting post on vocal isolation and PRAAT by Haatori (from this thread): 





__





Synthesizer V - Vocaloid haters might want to check this


Hello, Hataori from HPsynthV YT channel here. I made the video above - Kassai. I have just registered here only to reply to this thread. I am very honored to be linked from this forum. Really. I had a quick look at your tutorial videos - very impressive! :cool: This isn't directly related, but...




vi-control.net


----------



## baggage

AceAudioHQ said:


> Yea the (solaria) quality is way worse after the new update. You don't necessarily hear it so much in a song but when you solo the vocals, it has some bitcrusher-type artifacts/kazoo effect
> 
> The La's - There she goes
> 
> with Solaria 1.01:
> 
> View attachment tsg_v101.mp3
> 
> 
> with Solaria 1.03:
> 
> View attachment tsg_v103.mp3
> 
> 
> There's clearly some more "breath" in it with the exact same settings, and it sounds very unnatural and bad


What does Solaria 1.01 sound like with the "Prefer Speed" Render Quality? That might be the issue, something went wrong with that?


----------



## David Cuny

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Anyone know if any subscription streaming services have high quality isolated vocal tracks that aren't readily available for free without subscription?


Aren't _"subscriptions services free without a subscription"_ an oxymoron?

It seems you're asking for two different things - backing tracks, and isolated vocal tracks.

Since both are asking for access to copyrighted material...  

That said, most vocal isolation programs are based off Spleeter. The vocal quality doesn't have to be great, since all you really want is the isolated pitch information.

The main problem with that approach is that it's hard to find vocal tracks that only consist of single vocals - there's a lot of doubling and harmonies on vocals.


----------



## David Cuny

AceAudioHQ said:


> There's clearly some more "breath" in it with the exact same settings, and it sounds very unnatural and bad


Although this doesn't really address the issue of rendering _quality_, I'd suggest always setting *Aspiration Output *in the *Render* panel to "_As extra files (isolated)_":





That way, you can mix them in your DAW for a better balance.

Since the aspiration is necessary for understanding consonants, you can apply one reverb setting to the voiced output, and a different reverb to the unvoiced/aspirated output to keep vocal clarity. 

Plus, it's a lot easier to edit the aspiration directly instead of having to use a de-esser to correct harsh vocals.


----------



## David Cuny

baggage said:


> What does Solaria 1.01 sound like with the "Prefer Speed" Render Quality? That might be the issue, something went wrong with that?


The "Render Speed" should only affect the rendering heard inside the program, not the final render quality.

For _final_ render quality, look at the *Render* panel for *Bit Depth* and *Sample Rate*.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

David Cuny said:


> Aren't _"subscriptions services free without a subscription"_ an oxymoron?
> 
> It seems you're asking for two different things - backing tracks, and isolated vocal tracks.



I don't think you need case endings to figure out that "isolated vocal tracks that aren't readily available for free without subscription" is referring to vocal tracks that are *not* readily available for free without subscription.

Personally I don't care about backing tracks at all.


----------



## David Cuny

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> I don't think you need case endings to figure out that "isolated vocal tracks that aren't readily available for free without subscription" is referring to vocal tracks that are *not* readily available for free without subscription.
> 
> Personally I don't care about backing tracks at all.


I guess I'm just puzzled by what's gained by doing this.

Copy synthesis is great for showing that you can get better results that the in-box algorithm. But that's always been the case. The synthesized singing of "Daisy Bell" from 1961 was done using a copy synthesis process.

But in the end, you still need a vocalist to sing the parts if you take that route.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

David Cuny said:


> I guess I'm just puzzled by what's gained by doing this.
> 
> Copy synthesis is great for showing that you can get better results that the in-box algorithm. But that's always been the case. The synthesized singing of "Daisy Bell" from 1961 was done using a copy synthesis process.
> 
> But in the end, you still need a vocalist to sing the parts if you take that route.


Why can't you apply the pitch and timing information to new lyrics, or modify (stretch, randomize, tweak, etc.) it as a base-line for emotional humanization?


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

(Also, aside from vocal synthesis, since I'm a vocalist and producer I would like to examine the pitch information in the isolated vocal tracks to better inform my own use of real-time pitch visualization software and Melodyne. I think I've become overly biased towards being closer to exactly on pitch, or correcting away expressive variations that people may actually prefer. Though that's been a popular trend over the last few years....

It ties back into vocal synthesis when I want to use PRAAT to transform my own vocals into those of a Synth V voice and/or use morphing software like Zyanptiq's Morph2 to have either a constant blend or automate a gradual transformation of my own voice into the Synth V voice. Then the ghost of my voice might be able to provide some of the missing emotional nuance to fit the lyrics... but I'm not sure this will work very well.)


----------



## David Cuny

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Why can't you apply the pitch and timing information to new lyrics, or modify (stretch, randomize, tweak, etc.) it as a base-line for emotional humanization?


You can, but that's literally what _SynthV_ is already doing with the AI auto-tune feature. It's been trained on performances of the original singer, and based on context -- note duration, prior pitch, next pitch, _etc_. - learns a what sort statistical "humanization" can be applied.

You can do this yourself, but if you cut and paste and then apply any timestretching, at a minimum it's going to mess with the vibrato, and the rate of change of the other elements.

It's probably easier to draw in the pitch curve manually (assuming your hand is reasonably steady with the mouse, or even better, you have a tablet) than to try grafting one performance onto another.

It's a bit like a guitar VST, where you can add vibrato. Sure, you _could_ cut and paste from a real performance. But once you know what you're aiming for, it's a lot simpler to draw it in with the mouse, or perform it with a mod wheel.

Things like _Praat_ can still be a great help here, because by looking at a performance, you can see what a particular expression looks like. You can sing an example straight into _Praat,_ look at the pitch curve, and then draw a similar line into _SynthV_.

But if you've got something that works better, more power to you.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

David Cuny said:


> You can, but that's literally what _SynthV_ is already doing with the AI auto-tune feature. It's been trained on performances of the original singer, and based on context -- note duration, prior pitch, next pitch, _etc_. - learns a what sort statistical "humanization" can be applied.
> 
> You can do this yourself, but if you cut and paste and then apply any timestretching, at a minimum it's going to mess with the vibrato, and the rate of change of the other elements.
> 
> It's probably easier to draw in the pitch curve manually (assuming your hand is reasonably steady with the mouse, or even better, you have a tablet) than to try grafting one performance onto another.
> 
> It's a bit like a guitar VST, where you can add vibrato. Sure, you _could_ cut an paste from a real performance. But once you know what you're aiming for, it's a lot simpler to draw it in with the mouse, or perform it with a mod wheel.
> 
> Things like _Praat_ can still be a great help here, because by looking at a performance, you can see what a particular expression looks like. You can sing an example straight into _Praat,_ look at the pitch curve, and then draw a similar line into _SynthV_.
> 
> But if you've got something that works better, more power to you.


But these humanizations would be chosen to fit the lyrics or emotion at the moment, or because they're particularly outstanding examples of expressive pitch of a particular type that you want to use (or use a variation of) at that point in the song... sure it might be better implemented by a neural network trained on multiple variations on that type (or emotion) and intelligently integrated into the model of the singer's voice, but Synthesizer V hasn't done that yet....


----------



## baggage

Here's two Renders of Kevin with increased Breathiness, current version 1.02, settings are the same except for the Synthesis Engine Render Modes. Maybe there's something wrong on my end on what I'm rendering but I feel like there's absolutely a difference with the renders

Prefer Quality Mode
View attachment demo Kevin Render Mode Prefer Quality_MixDown.mp3

Prefer Speed Mode 

View attachment demo Kevin Render Mode Prefer Speed_MixDown.mp3


----------



## David Cuny

baggage said:


> Here's two Renders of Kevin with increased Breathiness, current version 1.02, settings are the same except for the Synthesis Engine Render Modes. Maybe there's something wrong on my end on what I'm rendering but I feel like there's absolutely a difference with the renders


Wow, those are _harsh!  _ What does the aspiration sound like when you rendering it out separately?

And yes - they sound different to me.

The reason I'm asking is because there was a problem with some of the voices where they'd get a high-pitching ringing in them. Since aspiration is supposed to be nothing but unpitched noise, that's obviously bad.

If something like that's going on, you might be able to isolate it, and apply an EQ to take some of the harshness out as a stop-gap.


----------



## ScarletJerry

baggage said:


> Here's two Renders of Kevin with increased Breathiness, current version 1.02, settings are the same except for the Synthesis Engine Render Modes. Maybe there's something wrong on my end on what I'm rendering but I feel like there's absolutely a difference with the renders
> 
> Prefer Quality Mode
> View attachment demo Kevin Render Mode Prefer Quality_MixDown.mp3
> 
> Prefer Speed Mode
> 
> View attachment demo Kevin Render Mode Prefer Speed_MixDown.mp3


Definitely hear a profound difference in those two examples. I’m learning so much from everyone’s comments!


----------



## baggage

This test uses the same svp with the same settings, rendered with the vocal and aspiration isolated, interesting results, there appears to be tonal elements in the quality aspiration render but not the speed one. They both have their own unique identity.

Speed
View attachment Demo Kevin Render Speed vocal and asp iso.mp3

Quality
View attachment Demo Kevin Render Quality vocal and asp iso.mp3


the Quality Tonal output really does sound like someone singing with their mouth full of cotton


----------



## AceAudioHQ

baggage said:


> What does Solaria 1.01 sound like with the "Prefer Speed" Render Quality? That might be the issue, something went wrong with that?


It has similar characteristics with 1.03 but they're not as prominent imo. We'll see what eclipsed sounds finds out


----------



## ScarletJerry

I hope that someone is creating a Synthesizer V choir library….


----------



## Real Mirage

Made this btw


----------



## baggage




----------



## odod

baggage said:


>



yes, just updated last night .. will try this today


----------



## ScarletJerry

Does anyone know if you can have two different versions in your list of voices?


----------



## David Cuny

ScarletJerry said:


> Does anyone know if you can have two different versions in your list of voices?


There's only an option to install the voice, not to install specific version.


----------



## ScarletJerry

David Cuny said:


> There's only an option to install the voice, not to install specific version.


Thanks David.


----------



## baggage




----------



## freecham

If you want create the background music from mp3 track file, Stagecraft Simple Steems is free for a limited time (give your email to get a free serial). The program decompose any audio into it’s constituent parts. This VST (or standalone) plugin uses the Spleeter algorithm. I have not tried it but it may interest some users.

https://www.stagecraftsoftware.com/products/simplestems/


----------



## ScarletJerry

Wow! That is amazing. I tried it on two different songs and it worked beautifully.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## madfloyd

I tried it on one and was very impressed...


----------



## Phillip Dixon

Late to the party, only today I nearly parted with 400 sobs to buy auto Tune (even though I hate it). to prop up my lousy voice, so I could demo my songs, I had no idea how far these tools had come on, couple of questions that a quick search Hasn't answered.. These voices aren't phrase based and can I use any words I want. Cheers


----------



## Phillip Dixon

Also why isn't solaria listed in products in the dreamtonics store?


----------



## David Cuny

Phillip Dixon said:


> Late to the party, only today I nearly parted with 400 sobs to buy auto Tune (even though I hate it). to prop up my lousy voice, so I could demo my songs, I had no idea how far these tools had come on, couple of questions that a quick search Hasn't answered.. These voices aren't phrase based and can I use any words I want. Cheers


That is correct.

These voices are phoneme based, and so have unlimited vocabularies, as long as you use phonemes from one of the supported languages of Chinese, Japanese and English. You can only use one language per singer at a time, so you can't mix language within words.

Which is a long way of saying: yes, any words you want.

You can download a free version of the application and a lower-quality voice to verify it works the way you expect. The ANiCUTE website is probably the easiest place to find them.


----------



## David Cuny

Phillip Dixon said:


> Also why isn't solaria listed in products in the dreamtonics store?


Because Dreamtonics created the voice on behalf of Eclipsed Sounds.

So it's not a Dreamtonics product.

There are a number of other voicebanks that aren't on the Dreamtonics website as well, such as those owned by VLOR and Quadimension.


----------



## Phillip Dixon

Thanks any suggestions for a male voice
Definitely getting solaria


----------



## David Cuny

Phillip Dixon said:


> Thanks any suggestions for a male voice
> Definitely getting solaria


Kevin is the only native English voice that's currently available.

There are non-native voicebanks that can do English using the trans-lingual function, but they've got slight accents. In some rare cases, they simply won't say things right.

For example, I couldn't get one of them to sing _"blue"_ correctly, so I had to split the word into two syllables 

* /b aa l/* + */ew/* 

The first syllable was super-short, with a minimal amount of time on the */aa/*.

Interestingly, the female trans-lingual vocalists don't seem to have as much trouble with accents.

I know that Eclipsed Sounds is interested in putting out a male vocalist, but nothing's been announced yet.


----------



## Phillip Dixon

Thanks for the insight


----------



## David Cuny

On the topic of male vocalists, I ran across an old _Vocaloid_ project, and figured I'd try it out in _SynthV_.

Here's what the solo vocal sounds like with _Mo Chen_, who I picked because I was looking for a less harsh voice than _Kevin_:

*Mo Chen Solo, no backing:*
View attachment Be Thou My Vision (Mo Chen Solo).mp3


Most of the vowels are _fairly_ good, as are most of the consonants. The most obvious issue is that he drops the */s t/* in "best". He has an accent, but it's not overwhelming.

Typically, I'll just cut and past the missing consonants from some other word. But in this case, I thought I'd try combining _Mo Chen's_ vocal with _Kevin's _aspiration and see how it went.

The aspiration is akin to the "residual" - what you are left with when you remove the pure harmonics from the vocal. _SynthV_ gives the option of rendering the two parts out separately.

Turns out to be not as clever as I thought it would be, because in the lower register, _Kevin_ has a bit of a gargle to his voice: 

*Kevin's Aspiration:*
View attachment Be Thou My Vision (Kevin Aspiration Only).mp3


I probably should have simply cut and pasted the missing consonants, but the final aspiration track is a combination of _Mo Chen_ and _Kevin_, additional cutting/pasting/boosting and a drastic high-pass filter.

You can see I've probably gone overboard editing the consonants (which I do with "real" vocals also):






Here's the final mix, with _Eleanor Forte _on the harmony:

*Final Mix: Eleanor Forte; Mo Chen Voice + Mo Chen and Kevin Aspiration + edits*
View attachment Be Thou My Vision (Mo Chen + Kevin Aspiration).mp3


YMMV.

_SynthV_ lets me go overboard with harmonies!


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

David Cuny said:


> On the topic of male vocalists, I ran across an old _Vocaloid_ project, and figured I'd try it out in _SynthV_.
> 
> Here's what the solo vocal sounds like with _Mo Chen_, who I picked because I was looking for a less harsh voice than _Kevin_:
> 
> *Mo Chen Solo, no backing:*
> View attachment Be Thou My Vision (Mo Chen Solo).mp3
> 
> 
> Most of the vowels are _fairly_ good, as are most of the consonants. The most obvious issue is that he drops the */s t/* in "best". He has an accent, but it's not overwhelming.
> 
> Typically, I'll just cut and past the missing consonants from some other word. But in this case, I thought I'd try combining _Mo Chen's_ vocal with _Kevin's _aspiration and see how it went.
> 
> The aspiration is akin to the "residual" - what you are left with when you remove the pure harmonics from the vocal. _SynthV_ gives the option of rendering the two parts out separately.
> 
> Turns out to be not as clever as I thought it would be, because in the lower register, _Kevin_ has a bit of a gargle to his voice:
> 
> *Kevin's Aspiration:*
> View attachment Be Thou My Vision (Kevin Aspiration Only).mp3
> 
> 
> I probably should have simply cut and pasted the missing consonants, but the final aspiration track is a combination of _Mo Chen_ and _Kevin_, additional cutting/pasting/boosting and a drastic high-pass filter.
> 
> Here's the final mix, with _Eleanor Forte _on the harmony:
> 
> *Final Mix: Eleanor Forte; Mo Chen Voice + Mo Chen and Kevin Aspiration + edits*
> View attachment 80815
> 
> 
> YMMV.


I actually really like Kevin's isolated aspiration there... probably more than Kevin's usual voice.

Wouldn't mind the obviously synthesized noisiness of Mo Chen (and other male cross-lingual to English) if the noisiness itself sounded better... but it just sounds "off" (IDK how much using software to tweak it or adding more noise or other obvious effects would help). Whereas Kevin's aspiration sounds good and interesting (in an obviously processed way).


----------



## thewavesamongus

This is pretty impressive. I need to check this out!


----------



## jbuhler

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> I actually really like Kevin's isolated aspiration there... probably more than Kevin's usual voice.


I was thinking the same thing. There’s an appealing grain to this otherwise completely missing in Kevin’s voice.


----------



## madfloyd

The solo version of Kevin aspiration seems to be corrupted. I can hear some very high frequencies as if there was a low pass filter but nothing intelligible.


----------



## David Cuny

madfloyd said:


> The solo version of Kevin aspiration seems to be corrupted. I can hear some very high frequencies as if there was a low pass filter but nothing intelligible.


Yes, I agree.

You can _clearly_ hear the harmonics, and there shouldn't be _any _pitch information in the aspiration.

I've had this happen with other voices as well, and it can be a real problem.


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> Kevin is the only native English voice that's currently available.
> 
> There are non-native voicebanks that can do English using the trans-lingual function, but they've got slight accents. In some rare cases, they simply won't say things right.
> 
> For example, I couldn't get one of them to sing _"blue"_ correctly, so I had to split the word into two syllables
> 
> * /b aa l/* + */ew/*
> 
> The first syllable was super-short, with a minimal amount of time on the */aa/*.
> 
> Interestingly, the female trans-lingual vocalists don't seem to have as much trouble with accents.
> 
> I know that Eclipsed Sounds is interested in putting out a male vocalist, but nothing's been announced yet.



That's a trick I often use with problematic triphonemes, but using the same vowel in both syllabes.


----------



## Blancanegra

Another 80's classic I've just done with Kevin, sounds cool enough I think.

I miss more power in his voice but I've squeezed everything I could out of him, the effects did the rest.

Valerie (Steve Winwood)
View attachment Valerie (Steve Winwood) test.mp3


As usual, the attached project file includes 2 tracks, one with the raw midi imported notes with lyrics, the second edited by me.


----------



## Koyo

David Cuny said:


> Kevin is the only native English voice that's currently available.
> 
> There are non-native voicebanks that can do English using the trans-lingual function, but they've got slight accents. In some rare cases, they simply won't say things right.
> 
> For example, I couldn't get one of them to sing _"blue"_ correctly, so I had to split the word into two syllables
> 
> * /b aa l/* + */ew/*
> 
> The first syllable was super-short, with a minimal amount of time on the */aa/*.
> 
> Interestingly, the female trans-lingual vocalists don't seem to have as much trouble with accents.
> 
> I know that Eclipsed Sounds is interested in putting out a male vocalist, but nothing's been announced yet.


I'd like to know since I do not use a Chinese voice yet: do you use XSampa or Arpabet? Or are both possible?


----------



## David Cuny

Koyo said:


> I'd like to know since I do not use a Chinese voice yet: do you use XSampa or Arpabet? Or are both possible?


The AI voices have a trans-lingual function, which allows you to choose which language (Chinese, Japanese, English) you want to use.

Each language has its own phoneme set, and the phonetic notation only includes phonemes _used by that language_.


*Language**Lyrical Notation**Phonetic Notation*EnglishWordsModified ArpabetMandarin ChineseChinese characters (simplified/traditional), PinyinX-SAMPAJapaneseHiragana, Katakana, RomajiRomaji-derived symbols

So you can't use X-SAMPA thinking it's going to have English phonemes, because it only includes the phonemes used in Mandarin Chinese.

You also can't mix and match languages (broadly speaking, but there are ways around it), and you can't mix and match phoneme sets within a language.

Finally, each language is accented to how a native speaker would pronounce the phonemes, not for a "generic" pronunciation of the phoneme. So even though _Kevin_ is native English, if you choose Japanese as his language, he's going to speak with a (mostly) Japanese accent.


----------



## Koyo

David Cuny said:


> The AI voices have a trans-lingual function, which allows you to choose which language (Chinese, Japanese, English) you want to use.
> 
> Each language has its own phoneme set, and the phonetic notation only includes phonemes _used by that language_.
> 
> 
> *Language**Lyrical Notation**Phonetic Notation*EnglishWordsModified ArpabetMandarin ChineseChinese characters (simplified/traditional), PinyinX-SAMPAJapaneseHiragana, Katakana, RomajiRomaji-derived symbols
> 
> So you can't use X-SAMPA thinking it's going to have English phonemes, because it only includes the phonemes used in Mandarin Chinese.
> 
> You also can't mix and match languages (broadly speaking, but there are ways around it), and you can't mix and match phoneme sets within a language.
> 
> Finally, each language is accented to how a native speaker would pronounce the phonemes, not for a "generic" pronunciation of the phoneme. So even though _Kevin_ is native English, if you choose Japanese as his language, he's going to speak with a (mostly) Japanese accent.


Thank you for that. My objective is to make a Synth V voice sing in French. XSampa seems more appropriate for the extra vowel there, so I need a voice recorded in Mandarin.


----------



## David Cuny

Koyo said:


> Thank you for that. My objective is to make a Synth V voice sing in French. XSampa seems more appropriate for the extra vowel there, so I need a voice recorded in Mandarin.


No, you don't need a voice recorded in Mandarin.

_All_ of the AI voices are capable of singing in Chinese, Japanese and English, via their "trans-lingual" features. In the *Voice* panel, if you've got an AI voice, you can select the language to use:






So any of the AI voices will be capable of singing in Chinese using X-SAMPA phoneme set.

*However*: The Chinese X-SAMPA phoneme set does *not* use the full X-SAMPA phoneme set. Only the 60 phonemes that are used in Chinese have been implemented. This is more than the 40 English phonemes, but many of them correspond to sounds not in French, either.

You can find the list of phonemes here: https://slidingwall.github.io/synthv-dictionaries/phoneme

And you can't add to the phonemes.

No matter which version you choose, the voice won't sound French - it'll have a heavy Chinese, Japanese or English accent.


----------



## Loïc D

Koyo said:


> Thank you for that. My objective is to make a Synth V voice sing in French. XSampa seems more appropriate for the extra vowel there, so I need a voice recorded in Mandarin.


Not with the current voices.
French contains a lot of specific phonemes that are not featured in the current voice sets.
It also needs a very big dictionary because many words contain “mute” phonemes, often depending on the previous / next word.

So, to my opinion, singing “natively” in French would require a big improvement to Synth V.


----------



## Vardaro

Loïc D said:


> So, to my opinion, singing “natively” in French would require a big improvement to Synth V.


So for the time being we shall have to modify all the formants subsequently in Melodyne Studio....


----------



## jblongz

Since Solaria is a 3rd party product, how can a developer access the API or other method of custom voice. What if I wanted to turn my voice into a Synthesizer V AI bank?


----------



## David Cuny

jblongz said:


> Since Solaria is a 3rd party product, how can a developer access the API or other method of custom voice. What if I wanted to turn my voice into a Synthesizer V AI bank?


You'd need Dreamtonics to do it for you.

Eclipsed Sounds paid Dreamtonics to create the voicebank for them. Although Eclipsed Sounds signed an NDA, the price is in the neighborhood of $43,000, since that was the crowdfunding target of the Indiegogo project. Part of this cost no doubt included the cost of paying the vocal talent and doing the recordings.

Dreamtonics provided Eclipsed Sounds with information about what to record and send back to them. This included a recording list of all the phonemes, as well as melodies to analyze the singer's vocal style.

Eclipsed Sounds did the recordings, and provided them back to Dreamtonics to analyze and encode as a neural network. Eclipsed Sounds is now selling SOLARIA with the hopes of recouping the initial costs, and possibly making additional voicebanks if the project proves successful.

That said, there has already been an effort to create a synthetic French singer called ALYS. That project initially used the UTAU engine, moved to the Alter/Ego system, and then was scrapped entirely. The recordings are available for free under the GPL3 license.

*Edit:* I had a listen to the ALYS recordings. They sound like they've been pre-processed through pitch correction, and have a bit of metallic ringing to them.


----------



## Koyo

David Cuny said:


> No, you don't need a voice recorded in Mandarin.
> 
> _All_ of the AI voices are capable of singing in Chinese, Japanese and English, via their "trans-lingual" features. In the *Voice* panel, if you've got an AI voice, you can select the language to use:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So any of the AI voices will be capable of singing in Chinese using X-SAMPA phoneme set.
> 
> *However*: The Chinese X-SAMPA phoneme set does *not* use the full X-SAMPA phoneme set. Only the 60 phonemes that are used in Chinese have been implemented. This is more than the 40 English phonemes, but many of them correspond to sounds not in French, either.
> 
> You can find the list of phonemes here: https://slidingwall.github.io/synthv-dictionaries/phoneme
> 
> And you can't add to the phonemes.
> 
> No matter which version you choose, the voice won't sound French - it'll have a heavy Chinese, Japanese or English accent.


My understanding is that the concept of "accent" in singing, whether Chinese, Japanese or English has little effect in Synth V or in real life.

For me, an accent is audible when the tonic accent or its opposite, elision (omition of phonemes). Along with pronunciation come the change of pitch in words. When singing, there is little of this since duration and pitch is determined by the music.

What makes the difference of where and how in the mouth a phoneme is pronounced.

For example, the [p], [d] and [t] in Mandarin (and French too) are not like English, where we pronounce an implosive ([h] sound) like in "p-h-arent", "t-h-ea" and "d-h-ifferent". In French, it's just a stop.

Vowels are not rounded in French as much as much as in English, so they're simply a variation (sometimes subtle, sometimes obvious) of the phoneme.
British English is overall pronounced more behind in the cavity of the mouth, whereas American and Canadian English is more nasal. But that distinction is less discernible when singing, not counting how the "t" and "r" are differently pronounced, which are different phonemes entirely.

The hurt in Synth V is the phoneme equivalence for its cross-lingual feature. Some just don't correspond really.

How a word is pronounced means everything: it shows the level of how the speaker grabs the cultural significance or connotation behind a word. When the speaker does not pronounce it correctly, it means he still lives within the cultural references of his own language, which can be similar but not quite identical. Does it matter? For me and my kind of music, yes. I say we perceive this intuitively, like we do with the non-verbal language.


----------



## Koyo

Loïc D said:


> Not with the current voices.
> French contains a lot of specific phonemes that are not featured in the current voice sets.
> It also needs a very big dictionary because many words contain “mute” phonemes, often depending on the previous / next word.
> 
> So, to my opinion, singing “natively” in French would require a big improvement to Synth V.


With the 16 vowels of French VS the 8 of arpabet, applying the cross-lingual algorithm would make it sound rather hollow.


----------



## David Cuny

Koyo said:


> My understanding is that the concept of "accent" in singing, whether Chinese, Japanese or English has little effect in Synth V or in real life.


I take accent to mean how a particular speaker pronounces a phoneme. There is a difference between how a native American English and a British English speaker will pronounce the same vowel, to say nothing of regional differences.



> For me, an accent is audible when the tonic accent or its opposite, elision (omition of phonemes). Along with pronunciation come the change of pitch in words. When singing, there is little of this since duration and pitch is determined by the music.


There are a lot of aspects to accent.

Since _SynthV_ gives control of pitch, duration, and (to some degree) stress, the only ones that are relevant are those that _can't_ be controlled.



> What makes the difference of where and how in the mouth a phoneme is pronounced.


Agreed.



> For example, the [p], [d] and [t] in Mandarin (and French too) are not like English, where we pronounce an implosive ([h] sound) like in "p-h-arent", "t-h-ea" and "d-h-ifferent". In French, it's just a stop.


That makes them different phonemes, even though they may have the same mappings to letters.

Other examples are the */p/* in English, which at the end of words has an aspirated release. In _SynthV_ it's not necessary to create a distinct phoneme because it comes with context, but in _Vocaloid_ there are two different phonemes to represent it, */p/* and */ph/*.



> Vowels are not rounded in French as much as much as in English, so they're simply a variation (sometimes subtle, sometimes obvious) of the phoneme.


They're actually a _different phoneme_, because they sound different.

Just because they're mapped to the same letter doesn't make them the same phoneme.

On the other hand, phonetic systems that attempt to be universal, like X-SAMPA, will have different letters so there's no confusion between phonemes.



> The hurt in Synth V is the phoneme equivalence for its cross-lingual feature. Some just don't correspond really.


Yes.



> With the 16 vowels of French VS the 8 of arpabet, applying the cross-lingual algorithm would make it sound rather hollow.



I suspect you misunderstand how the trans-lingual feature works. A neural network has been trained on how to convert phonemes from one native speaker (say, Japanese) to a target language (say, English) using examples from a different native speaker.

Once the neural network learns how to do these transformations, it can be applied to different voicebanks.

Since _SynthesizerV_ already has voicebanks in Chinese, Japanese and English, the training data already exists to make this happen.

Once they had training data for another language (for example, French), they would be able to train their neural network so all their voices could sing in French.

_SynthesizerV_ doesn't deal directly with recordings of sounds. The initial recordings are analyzed, and the elements of the analysis (glottal pulse information and the spectral curves for the voiced and aspirated sounds) are stored. These are used to reconstruct the sounds.

The trans-lingual process teaches the neural network to transform the information. So if harmonic information is missing in the source English phoneme that's there in the target French phoneme, _SynthesizerV_ learns how to add it it by comparing the English version to the French version.

Similarly, equivalent phonemes don't have to exist in English in order for the French versions to be created. The process likely only needs to be told which English phoneme is similar enough so that the transformation will not lose too many features of the original speaker.


----------



## Koyo

David Cuny said:


> I take accent to mean how a particular speaker pronounces a phoneme. There is a difference between how a native American English and a British English speaker will pronounce the same vowel, to say nothing of regional differences.
> 
> 
> There are a lot of aspects to accent.
> 
> Since _SynthV_ gives control of pitch, duration, and (to some degree) stress, the only ones that are relevant are those that _can't_ be controlled.
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> 
> That makes them different phonemes, even though they may have the same mappings to letters.
> 
> Other examples are the */p/* in English, which at the end of words has an aspirated release. In _SynthV_ it's not necessary to create a distinct phoneme because it comes with context, but in _Vocaloid_ there are two different phonemes to represent it, */p/* and */ph/*.
> 
> 
> They're actually a _different phoneme_, because they sound different.
> 
> Just because they're mapped to the same letter doesn't make them the same phoneme.
> 
> On the other hand, phonetic systems that attempt to be universal, like X-SAMPA, will have different letters so there's no confusion between phonemes.





David Cuny said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect you misunderstand how the trans-lingual feature works. A neural network has been trained on how to convert phonemes from one native speaker (say, Japanese) to a target language (say, English) using examples from a different native speaker.
> 
> Once the neural network learns how to do these transformations, it can be applied to different voicebanks.
> 
> Since _SynthesizerV_ already has voicebanks in Chinese, Japanese and English, the training data already exists to make this happen.
> 
> Once they had training data for another language (for example, French), they would be able to train their neural network so all their voices could sing in French.
> 
> _SynthesizerV_ doesn't deal directly with recordings of sounds. The initial recordings are analyzed, and the elements of the analysis (glottal pulse information and the spectral curves for the voiced and aspirated sounds) are stored. These are used to reconstruct the sounds.
> 
> The trans-lingual process teaches the neural network to transform the information. So if harmonic information is missing in the source English phoneme that's there in the target French phoneme, _SynthesizerV_ learns how to add it it by comparing the English version to the French version.
> 
> Similarly, equivalent phonemes don't have to exist in English in order for the French versions to be created. it probably only needs to be told which English phoneme is similar enough so that the transformation will not lose too many features of the original speaker.


Indeed, my understanding of how the cross-lingual feature works was mistaken. Thank you for taking the time to explain. It's clearer now.

Does this mean that, for example, Solaria could be taught to sing French by recording another singer? Amazing what they can do.


----------



## David Cuny

Koyo said:


> Does this mean that, for example, Solaria could be taught to sing French by recording another singer? Amazing what they can do.


Yes, exactly. That's how she can sing in Chinese and Japanese.

It's not perfect, but it really is quite amazing.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

David Cuny said:


> I take accent to mean how a particular speaker pronounces a phoneme. There is a difference between how a native American English and a British English speaker will pronounce the same vowel, to say nothing of regional differences.
> 
> 
> There are a lot of aspects to accent.
> 
> Since _SynthV_ gives control of pitch, duration, and (to some degree) stress, the only ones that are relevant are those that _can't_ be controlled.
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> 
> That makes them different phonemes, even though they may have the same mappings to letters.
> 
> Other examples are the */p/* in English, which at the end of words has an aspirated release. In _SynthV_ it's not necessary to create a distinct phoneme because it comes with context, but in _Vocaloid_ there are two different phonemes to represent it, */p/* and */ph/*.
> 
> 
> They're actually a _different phoneme_, because they sound different.
> 
> Just because they're mapped to the same letter doesn't make them the same phoneme.
> 
> On the other hand, phonetic systems that attempt to be universal, like X-SAMPA, will have different letters so there's no confusion between phonemes.
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect you misunderstand how the trans-lingual feature works. A neural network has been trained on how to convert phonemes from one native speaker (say, Japanese) to a target language (say, English) using examples from a different native speaker.
> 
> Once the neural network learns how to do these transformations, it can be applied to different voicebanks.
> 
> Since _SynthesizerV_ already has voicebanks in Chinese, Japanese and English, the training data already exists to make this happen.
> 
> Once they had training data for another language (for example, French), they would be able to train their neural network so all their voices could sing in French.
> 
> _SynthesizerV_ doesn't deal directly with recordings of sounds. The initial recordings are analyzed, and the elements of the analysis (glottal pulse information and the spectral curves for the voiced and aspirated sounds) are stored. These are used to reconstruct the sounds.
> 
> The trans-lingual process teaches the neural network to transform the information. So if harmonic information is missing in the source English phoneme that's there in the target French phoneme, _SynthesizerV_ learns how to add it it by comparing the English version to the French version.
> 
> Similarly, equivalent phonemes don't have to exist in English in order for the French versions to be created. The process likely only needs to be told which English phoneme is similar enough so that the transformation will not lose too many features of the original speaker.


So the example in which they had the cross-lingual do Let It Go (from Frozen) in 25 languages was limited to... phonemes in those particular parts of Let It Go? Or... ?


----------



## David Cuny

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> So the example in which they had the cross-lingual do Let It Go (from Frozen) in 25 languages was limited to... phonemes in those particular parts of Let It Go? Or... ?


My understanding is that this uses the existing languages (Chinese, Japanese, English) to get the results. If you read the comments, people note how far from the correct the pronunciation is in various language, and how they aren't close to native.

It _is_ using the trans-lingual feature, in that Cangqiong is a native Chinese bank.

A bit ironically, trans-lingual demos from the Cangqiong is what got a lot of people excited for the feature (myself included). But except for a limited Beta, the AI voicebank with the trans-lingual feature is yet to be released.


----------



## Blancanegra

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> So the example in which they had the cross-lingual do Let It Go (from Frozen) in 25 languages was limited to... phonemes in those particular parts of Let It Go? Or... ?



I'm from Spain and I have to read the subtitles to understand what's she was singing in Latin American Spanish (there are 2 Spanish versions of the movie (Latin America, Spain) with different voice actors, singers and lyrics). Even after knowing the lyrics I closed my eyes and listened to that part again... I didn't understand a thing! Wich is strange because in another languagues I know those parts sounds better, but not good enough. Could be done better but....

...making Synth V sing in another unsupported language may be something you want to do once, but not repeat!


----------



## raidergale

Since Cangqiong was mentioned, a new demo showcasing her Plus voicebank was released yesterday, so I guess the project is still _somewhat_ alive.
For those who don't know, the "Plus" voicebanks are AI voicebanks trained on songs rendered with their standard banks instead of the real singer. They lose on realism, but they have a more consistent tone with the original voicebank and get all the additional features AI voicebanks have, like cross-lingual synthesis.



I personally really like Cangqiong's tone, so I hope her Plus voice will release sooner or later...


----------



## raidergale

Sorry for the double post, but a new example of Weina's voicebank was just released. It focuses on her low notes, and also showcases English cross-lingual synthesis and some vocal modes.

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1kB4y1a7U5


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

raidergale said:


> Sorry for the double post, but a new example of Weina's voicebank was just released. It focuses on her low notes, and also showcases English cross-lingual synthesis and some vocal modes.
> 
> https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1kB4y1a7U5


Nice timbre, but the dynamics seem really off, and the cross-lingual English actually seems worse than some of the other female voices. Seems like waiting for these "Gold" voices was probably a mistake on my part.


----------



## RobbertZH

Blancanegra said:


> I'm from Spain and I have to read the subtitles to understand what's she was singing in Latin American Spanish (there are 2 Spanish versions of the movie (Latin America, Spain) with different voice actors, singers and lyrics). Even after knowing the lyrics I closed my eyes and listened to that part again... I didn't understand a thing! Wich is strange because in another languagues I know those parts sounds better, but not good enough. Could be done better but....
> 
> ...making Synth V sing in another unsupported language may be something you want to do once, but not repeat!


I listened to the Dutch lyrics around 0:50 and it sounded like someone from the UK speaking Dutch (so Dutch with an english accent), but still perfectly understandable. So likely you do not get perfect results just by choosing the right phonemes. Sometimes you have to tweak to get better results.

But remember that for this demo, somebody entered the lyrics and phonemes for 25 languages, with probably many languages he or she did not understand, so could not check if the pronunciation was perfect and without accent.

So I think it is still an impressive demo of the multi-language option.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

RobbertZH said:


> I listened to the Dutch lyrics around 0:50 and it sounded like someone from the UK speaking Dutch (so Dutch with an english accent), but still perfectly understandable. So likely you do not get perfect results just by choosing the right phonemes. Sometimes you have to tweak to get better results.
> 
> But remember that for this demo, somebody entered the lyrics and phonemes for 25 languages, with probably many languages he or she did not understand, so he or she could not check if the pronunciation was perfect and without accent.
> 
> So I think it is still an impressive demo of the multi-language option.


"With the exception of Frisian, Dutch is linguistically the closest language to English. . . many Dutch words are cognates with English . . . giving them similar spelling and pronunciation."






Understanding Dutch — Why Dutch is so easy to learn


Learn Dutch with simple guides, explanations and resources - covering grammar, vocabulary and essential phrases to get you speaking Dutch in no time



understandingdutch.com


----------



## Loïc D

Hmmm, ok.
I may want to write a swear song in French using Synth V. 
Just for my own personal fun.


----------



## Blancanegra

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Nice timbre, but the dynamics seem really off, and the cross-lingual English actually seems worse than some of the other female voices. Seems like waiting for these "Gold" voices was probably a mistake on my part.


For the little time left for the launch I think it's not worth getting an opinion for a single demo that, in my opinion, is not the best, and I explain myself.

I liked the first demo in the low register. Some syllables has a timbre or dynamics that I did not expect in the middle register, but as a user I could change or adjust the timbre to my liking.

The English demo in the high register shows 3 vocal modes, the delicate one is appropriate for the song, but the following ones, which are stronger, should not have been used with that song. You wouldn't sing a lullaby at the top of your voice or an AC-DC song in a whisper.

So, I keep the good, and discard what I did not like thinking that it is something that can be easily changed with a few mouse clicks.

I cannot give an objective opinion on the quality of the English as I am not a native speaker.


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> I cannot give an objective opinion on the quality of the English as I am not a native speaker.


The English seems fine to me, but I wish they would verify the pronunciation with an English speaker. *"thyme*" should be */t ay m/*, not */th ay m/*.

It's an understandable mistake, but it detracts from the demo, because my first thought is to wonder if there's an issue with the trans-lingual feature.


----------



## rogierhofboer

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> "With the exception of Frisian, Dutch is linguistically the closest language to English. . . many Dutch words are cognates with English . . . giving them similar spelling and pronunciation."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Understanding Dutch — Why Dutch is so easy to learn
> 
> 
> Learn Dutch with simple guides, explanations and resources - covering grammar, vocabulary and essential phrases to get you speaking Dutch in no time
> 
> 
> 
> understandingdutch.com


In detail it sounds very different. Even if a Dutch and English speaker pronounce the same phoneme, it still sounds not the same at all. This goes both ways. (Unless they speak the other language very well, but most Dutch people have a strong accent in English and vice versa)


----------



## raidergale

New Weina demo, this time Chinese only. It's a song from the Pixar movie "Brave", because the voice provider for the voicebank, Hu Weina, was the official singer for that song in the movie.

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV17r4y177Bn
Still no proper English demo, and I don't think there's going to be one since it's yet again a voice primarily marketed towards the Chinese market, but considering it's out tomorrow I guess some English users will start posting examples relatively soon.


----------



## Blancanegra

raidergale said:


> New Weina demo, this time Chinese only. It's a song from the Pixar movie "Brave", because the voice provider for the voicebank, Hu Weina, was the official singer for that song in the movie.
> 
> https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV17r4y177Bn
> Still no proper English demo, and I don't think there's going to be one since it's yet again a voice primarily marketed towards the Chinese market, but considering it's out tomorrow I guess some English users will start posting examples relatively soon.


Weina voicebank is out!

https://store.dreamtonics.com/product/weina-voice-database/

From the site (I highlighted the more interesting to me):

Description​Synthesizer V AI Weina is a *bilingual (English and Mandarin Chinese*) voice database created from a close collaboration between Dreamtonics and renowned vocalist Weina Hu.

Adhering to the highest-ever standard of production, recording and production works for Weina were conducted at Dolby Atmos-certified Ready Steady Sound! and Sound & Vision Media Studio, under the supervision of top-tier producers and a team of professional musicians.

Firmly based in the *mezzo-soprano range*, Weina’s voice is no short of power and richness. Be it an heartfelt verse, an outbursting chorus, a supportive backing – backed by a wide variety of vocal mode options (Delicate, Tender, Lucid, Firm, Powerful, Resonant, Firm), Weina eases through all types of genres and roles. When paired with the right choice of vocal mode, Weina displays even greater potentials in both lower and higher ranges.

Thanks to Dreamtonics’ leading cross-language synthesis technology, in Synthesizer V Studio Pro Weina is able to sing songs in Japanese with near-native ability. In the process of making, *a carefully curated selection of Chinese and English songs as the training data gives Weina an extra edge of nailing the pronunciations.*


----------



## frioventus

New Synth V update is out! Don't update if you are working in a active project with SynthV. The new features are great but my old projects sounds awful right now.


----------



## raidergale

Here's a video of one of the new features for this update, activate subtitles to get English subs.



I've done a few tests on my old files and while some parts sound worse by default, by using this feature the final result sounds a lot nicer to me. So it does require some fine tuning, but I do like the update overall


----------



## MegaPixel

Just discovered this... Interesting...

I find all listed as Chinese but some say English & Chinese lower down in the webpages on the official website, then I found 2 alternate banks (ML/AI Based I think) which sound good, manga things again, on alternate websites, both a bit dodgy looking...

*Does anyone have a list of which are the BEST voice banks (ML/AI only) for ENGLISH to buy and links to get them from?*

Also is there better software out there for this or is this the pinnacle of ML/AI vocal singing at the moment? EMVoice is a bit... Meh...

Thanks


----------



## JimDiGritz

MegaPixel said:


> Just discovered this... Interesting...
> 
> I find all listed as Chinese but some say English & Chinese lower down in the webpages on the official website, then I found 2 alternate banks (ML/AI Based I think) which sound good, manga things again, on alternate websites, both a bit dodgy looking...
> 
> *Does anyone have a list of which are the BEST voice banks (ML/AI only) for ENGLISH to buy and links to get them from?*
> 
> Also is there better software out there for this or is this the pinnacle of ML/AI vocal singing at the moment? EMVoice is a bit... Meh...
> 
> Thanks


Kevin & Solaria are by far the best English voicebanks.. and yes IMHO this is the pinnacle of commercially available voice synth tech!


----------



## philthevoid

MegaPixel said:


> Just discovered this... Interesting...
> 
> I find all listed as Chinese but some say English & Chinese lower down in the webpages on the official website, then I found 2 alternate banks (ML/AI Based I think) which sound good, manga things again, on alternate websites, both a bit dodgy looking...
> 
> *Does anyone have a list of which are the BEST voice banks (ML/AI only) for ENGLISH to buy and links to get them from?*
> 
> Also is there better software out there for this or is this the pinnacle of ML/AI vocal singing at the moment? EMVoice is a bit... Meh...
> 
> Thanks


The current popular combo is to get Synth-V and Kevin together in a package (saves you 10%): https://store.dreamtonics.com/product/bundle-editor-vdb/
And then also get Solaria: https://www.eclipsedsounds.com/shop

The newly released Weina also seems promising but she's also much more expensive (62% more expensive to be precise!). I'll personally wait to hear more demos with her before trying her out.


----------



## Blancanegra

raidergale said:


> Here's a video of one of the new features for this update, activate subtitles to get English subs.
> 
> 
> 
> I've done a few tests on my old files and while some parts sound worse by default, by using this feature the final result sounds a lot nicer to me. So it does require some fine tuning, but I do like the update overall



I did the same aswell, veeery happy with the update and the new tools!
Also noticed that phoneme alternation is back (doesn't worked for me before).


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

philthevoid said:


> The current popular combo is to get Synth-V and Kevin together in a package (saves you 10%): https://store.dreamtonics.com/product/bundle-editor-vdb/
> And then also get Solaria: https://www.eclipsedsounds.com/shop
> 
> The newly released Weina also seems promising but she's also much more expensive (62% more expensive to be precise!). I'll personally wait to hear more demos with her before trying her out.


Synth V Pro + Kevin bundle = $151.20
Synth V Pro + Weina bundle = $183.30

(183.3/151.2) = 1.2123 ≈ 21% more expensive

IDK, Blancanegra's Kevin templates seem shockingly good (relative to the Dreamtonics demos), but as a male vocalist I'm not sure I like Kevin's voice enough for it to be worth it... maybe for high notes, but I might prefer to use obvious pitch shifting or effects on my own voice instead---or maybe a Synth V female voice with Gender modified....

Any plans for a male Gold voice trained on English songs as well as Chinese?... but again IDK because (IMO as a native English speaker, poet, and lyricist) the Weina English demo was so bad I'd consider it unusable.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

English demo of Weina. It sounds really bad on my studio monitors, though the noisiness is less audible on my laptop speakers:



The final -n and -t sounds sound like they've been tacked on in a very unnatural (for English, at least), unmusical, and disjointed way. The flow of "by the moon-light laughing those" is terrible. It doesn't sound like an accent, it sounds like a computer trying to emulate the flow of English and failing badly.


----------



## baggage

This might be a better demo of Weina for the people here


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

baggage said:


> This might be a better demo of Weina for the people here



That's a lot better, especially the long held notes, but the artifacts are really prominent (especially at certain initial or final consonants---st, n, initial y, t, th), and sound bad (and disrupt the flow in an unnatural and unmusical way). Great timbre in places though... maybe I could write around it, avoiding certain consonants (at least in certain positions).


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> That's a lot better, especially the long held notes, but the artifacts are really prominent (especially at certain initial or final consonants---st, n, initial y, t, th), and sound bad (and disrupt the flow in an unnatural and unmusical way). Great timbre in places though... maybe I could write around it, avoiding certain consonants (at least in certain positions).


On second thought so many of the initial or final consonants sound so bad---f of fast, r of rhymes, d of deeds---that trying to avoid sounding bad, even using only a limited set of English phonemes, seems like it might be a massive headache.


----------



## Koyo

Blancanegra said:


> Weina voicebank is out!
> 
> https://store.dreamtonics.com/product/weina-voice-database/
> 
> From the site (I highlighted the more interesting to me):
> 
> Description​Synthesizer V AI Weina is a *bilingual (English and Mandarin Chinese*) voice database created from a close collaboration between Dreamtonics and renowned vocalist Weina Hu.
> 
> Adhering to the highest-ever standard of production, recording and production works for Weina were conducted at Dolby Atmos-certified Ready Steady Sound! and Sound & Vision Media Studio, under the supervision of top-tier producers and a team of professional musicians.
> 
> Firmly based in the *mezzo-soprano range*, Weina’s voice is no short of power and richness. Be it an heartfelt verse, an outbursting chorus, a supportive backing – backed by a wide variety of vocal mode options (Delicate, Tender, Lucid, Firm, Powerful, Resonant, Firm), Weina eases through all types of genres and roles. When paired with the right choice of vocal mode, Weina displays even greater potentials in both lower and higher ranges.
> 
> Thanks to Dreamtonics’ leading cross-language synthesis technology, in Synthesizer V Studio Pro Weina is able to sing songs in Japanese with near-native ability. In the process of making, *a carefully curated selection of Chinese and English songs as the training data gives Weina an extra edge of nailing the pronunciations.*


It does mention that it is a BILINGUAL voice database, not crosslingual. That is perhaps why it is slightly more expensive but we've got more phonemes, right?


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Koyo said:


> It does mention that it is a BILINGUAL voice database, not crosslingual. That is perhaps why it is slightly more expensive but we've got more phonemes, right?


From that blurb it's not clear if they actually had Weina sing English phonemes and phoneme transitions or if they just trained the neural network on a database of English songs... if the former it's shockingly bad. Maybe I should just go ahead and get Kevin + Synth V Pro instead.


----------



## MegaPixel

Thanks for all the information everyone  

I've been watching some videos, and I think I need to slow down before I press the button on this...

Sometimes it sounds fine, then a lot of the time it sounds like it needs to go do DE-ESS heaven and then it sounds a bit vocodery...

Maybe they didn't master the training data sets before firing up that ML training algo...


----------



## MegaPixel

baggage said:


> This might be a better demo of Weina for the people here



And then it sounds great... So maybe this is a user thing... 
I guess you got to put the work in to get it to sound half decent.


----------



## MegaPixel

Anyone tried ANRI?


----------



## philthevoid

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Synth V Pro + Kevin bundle = $151.20
> Synth V Pro + Weina bundle = $183.30
> 
> (183.3/151.2) = 1.2123 ≈ 21% more expensive


I was referring to the voice on its own for those who already have Synth-V.
Other Dreamtonics voices are all 79$
This one is a whopping 129$
79 x 1.63 = 128.77$ (So it's a fraction over 63% more expensive)

Maybe it's worth it though. I'm just waiting for more convincing demos. So far, I'm not sold (though she does have a beautiful voice!).


----------



## raidergale

It's possible they did train Weina on English songs sung by her voice provider, but even if they did her voice provider's first language is Chinese, so any accent she has while singing in English would be translated to the SynthV voice.

I'm personally really interested in Weina, but I unfortunately can't justify spending 140$ (129+tax added at checkout) right now, so it's a purchase that will have to wait.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

raidergale said:


> It's possible they did train Weina on English songs sung by her voice provider, but even if they did her voice provider's first language is Chinese, so any accent she has while singing in English would be translated to the SynthV voice.
> 
> I'm personally really interested in Weina, but I unfortunately can't justify spending 140$ (129+tax added at checkout) right now, so it's a purchase that will have to wait.


It doesn't sound like an accent... it sounds like the phonemes have noisy digital artifacts and don't connect properly. Maybe I'll try running it through something like Lo-Fi AF to add better sounding digital and (pseudo-)analog distortion/noise/artifacts so it seems more intentional and sounds better... or maybe dulling the top end via lo-fi will make the artifacts less prominent. Maybe add some stutter or granular delay or something too. But that seems extremely limiting. I wish they'd just improve it.

Seeing the relative discount for getting the Synth V Pro + Weina (or presumably other near future gold voice) bundle instead of buying Weina separately makes me want to put off getting the Pro + Kevin bundle in hopes of either major improvements to Weina or a new male voice with better bilingual... Dreamtonics has done a great job of setting up their sales to encourage me to procrastinate about buying anything (with Kevin being the only option for the cheapest Pro + voice discount bundle---Eleanor bundle on Anicute costs considerably more, no Solaria bundle option). It's frustrating because I'm really interested and want to get started....


----------



## Vlzmusic

MegaPixel said:


> Anyone tried ANRI?



Got her day one, but with this ridiculously fast progressing Synth V roster, she kinda trails behind at the moment, with Solaria, Feng yi etc., being better. I hope she gets some updates too. 

By the way, if you happen to need child voice for a few brief phrases, she is a good fit with gender adjusted.


----------



## Blancanegra

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> That's a lot better, especially the long held notes, but the artifacts are really prominent (especially at certain initial or final consonants---st, n, initial y, t, th), and sound bad (and disrupt the flow in an unnatural and unmusical way). Great timbre in places though... maybe I could write around it, avoiding certain consonants (at least in certain positions).


All those artifacts are in the user side. That demo was done using the Hataori script, and any mistake aligning the beginning of the syllabes or phoneme duration in Praat would break the flow.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Blancanegra said:


> All those artifacts are in the user side. That demo was done using the Hataori script, and any mistake aligning the beginning of the syllabes or phoneme duration in Praat would break the flow.


Wow... if I hear some English language demos that don't have the artifacts and do have a decent flow then I might buy the Weina+Synth V Pro bundle. Glad I restrained the impulse to buy the Kevin + Pro bundle....


----------



## raidergale

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> It doesn't sound like an accent... it sounds like the phonemes have noisy digital artifacts and don't connect properly. Maybe I'll try running it through something like Lo-Fi AF to add better sounding digital and (pseudo-)analog distortion/noise/artifacts so it seems more intentional and sounds better... or maybe dulling the top end via lo-fi will make the artifacts less prominent. Maybe add some stutter or granular delay or something too. But that seems extremely limiting. I wish they'd just improve it.


Yeah, this is something that I can't catch that well since English isn't my first language. I definitely did hear some pronunciations that sounded off, but I just assumed it was her accent.

I can also say that with the new update some consonants sound weirder by default even on native English voices, and you need to use the multiple takes feature to find one that sounds better. I can see that in that example no other takes were used, just the default one, so that might be an issue too. But of course I can't really say for sure because I don't have Weina and Dreamtonics doesn't provide Lite versions of their voicebanks (and even if they did it would be locked to Chinese either way, since that's her main language and lite voicebanks don't allow cross-language synthesis)


----------



## soulofsound

The chinese weina demo sounds really gorgeous. They need to make a better demo for the english language.


----------



## raidergale

Here's a cover of Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, using the Postmodern Jukebox arrangement.
This uses the new HDVM mode and some retakes here and there, but nothing major.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Do these Synth V people ever sleep? I fired up the plugin this morning to check something tiny, just to be showered with 1.70 update, and ALL the voices updated... phew..


----------



## Blancanegra

I got Weina and did a quick test:

Moonlight shadow (Mike Oldfield)
View attachment Moonlight shadow test.mp3



Weina raw vocals
View attachment Moonlight shadow test - raw vocals only.mp3


*Voice parameters:*
Tension -0.07

*Vocal modes:*
Delicate 100%
Tender 50%
Warm 50%


I got too many app freezes while editing, by the way.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Blancanegra said:


> I got Weina and did a quick test:
> 
> Moonlight shadow (Mike Oldfield)
> View attachment Moonlight shadow test.mp3
> 
> 
> 
> Weina raw vocals
> View attachment Moonlight shadow test - raw vocals only.mp3
> 
> 
> *Voice parameters:*
> Tension -0.07
> 
> *Vocal modes:*
> Delicate 100%
> Tender 50%
> Warm 50%
> 
> 
> I got too many app freezes while editing, by the way.


Do you think you could eliminate the artifacts by matching the phoneme positions and lengths more exactly? It sounds very good in some places, but in many other places of course it's very noisy and the flow is off. Not sure if these examples suggest Weina requires much more work than Solaria or Kevin to get a good flow (in English) or if it just takes a lot of time to match phoneme position and length accurately when using Haatori's script or equivalent?

Specifics in case any of them aren't obvious: "T" at end of "last" sounds tacked on, and of course the "l" and the "st" are very noisy. The transition from "i" to "m" of "him" sounds off... like the m is tacked on in place of a natural transition. Same goes for the middle n of "warning". "Fight" sounds like it ends slightly too abruptly. The "the"s are over-emphasized.


----------



## Casiquire

Is Weina significantly worse than Solaria? Or is it a matter of being so new that the best demos haven't risen to the top yet? And I don't mean any disrespect to the people who have posted demos in here. My impression is that it's not user error; the voice just doesn't seem to flow as well.


----------



## raidergale

Blancanegra said:


> I got Weina and did a quick test:
> 
> Moonlight shadow (Mike Oldfield)


Thanks for this example, I really like her tone! I really liked Giuseppe's cover of this using Sweet Ann, so it's nice hearing a new take with a new voice


----------



## Blancanegra

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Do you think you could eliminate the artifacts by matching the phoneme positions and lengths more exactly? It sounds very good in some places, but in many other places of course it's very noisy and the flow is off. Not sure if these examples suggest Weina requires much more work than Solaria or Kevin to get a good flow (in English) or if it just takes a lot of time to match phoneme position and length accurately when using Haatori's script or equivalent?
> 
> Specifics in case any of them aren't obvious: "T" at end of "last" sounds tacked on, and of course the "l" and the "st" are very noisy. The transition from "i" to "m" of "him" sounds off... like the m is tacked on in place of a natural transition. Same goes for the middle n of "warning". "Fight" sounds like it end slightly too abruptly. The "the"s are over-emphasized.


It was a quick demo to show here the tone and English pronounciation, so there are some out of tune notes and things that could be improved.

I don't use any script. First I create the melody in the DAW, which I import as midi in the Synth V Pro editor, I write the lyrics and from there I start to edit the intonation and adjust the duration and strength of the phonemes.

It's important to determine what's wrong for you in first place, as the app offers the tools to tweak most of those things to your liking:

"T" at end of "last" sounds tacked on: reduce phoneme strengh, reduce breathness.
The noise could be reduced with Breathness parameter.

Him, warning...it never ceases to amaze me how the perception of a syllable changes when a vibrato is out of phase or is wrong.

Fight is short? make it longer! XD

Not sure what you mean with the over emphasized "the"s, perhaps you mean that they start very deep before reaching the tonality?

I've noticed that in other cases at the beginning of phrases with plosives and I think it's more because of Weina's way of singing, but it can be reduced. In general I found Weina's autopitch tunning more pleasant and accurate than Solaria (who is too nervous).




Casiquire said:


> Is Weina significantly worse than Solaria? Or is it a matter of being so new that the best demos haven't risen to the top yet? And I don't mean any disrespect to the people who have posted demos in here. My impression is that it's not user error; the voice just doesn't seem to flow as well.


It is still early to draw conclusions but I liked the first contact, the voice is very beautiful and full of nuances. I prefer the Weina's tone and her way of singing, but I'm not the person to leave an opinion about her English. I will publish more demos.

As bonus, another quick and unedited demo just to test the "Powerful" vocal mode + Tension in the high register (forget the flow and the too deep vibratos).

View attachment Ray of light_Weina vocal test.mp3


----------



## Tim_Wells

freecham said:


> If you want create the background music from mp3 track file, Stagecraft Simple Steems is free for a limited time (give your email to get a free serial). The program decompose any audio into it’s constituent parts. This VST (or standalone) plugin uses the Spleeter algorithm. I have not tried it but it may interest some users.
> 
> https://www.stagecraftsoftware.com/products/simplestems/


Has the offer ended? It says $50 and I don't see a free option.


----------



## Loïc D

I find the new AI retake feature very useful.
Also, maybe I missed something but what is the benefit of the plugin? I’m more efficient exporting/reimporting stuff since the plugin seems constantly put of sync.


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> It was a quick demo to show here the tone and English pronounciation, so there are some out of tune notes and things that could be improved.
> 
> I don't use any script. First I create the melody in the DAW, which I import as midi in the Synth V Pro editor, I write the lyrics and from there I start to edit the intonation and adjust the duration and strength of the phonemes.
> 
> It's important to determine what's wrong for you in first place, as the app offers the tools to tweak most of those things to your liking:
> 
> "T" at end of "last" sounds tacked on: reduce phoneme strengh, reduce breathness.
> The noise could be reduced with Breathness parameter.
> 
> Him, warning...it never ceases to amaze me how the perception of a syllable changes when a vibrato is out of phase or is wrong.
> 
> Fight is short? make it longer! XD
> 
> Not sure what you mean with the over emphasized "the"s, perhaps you mean that they start very deep before reaching the tonality?
> 
> I've noticed that in other cases at the beginning of phrases with plosives and I think it's more because of Weina's way of singing, but it can be reduced. In general I found Weina's autopitch tunning more pleasant and accurate than Solaria (who is too nervous).
> 
> 
> 
> It is still early to draw conclusions but I liked the first contact, the voice is very beautiful and full of nuances. I prefer the Weina's tone and her way of singing, but I'm not the person to leave an opinion about her English. I will publish more demos.
> 
> As bonus, another quick and unedited demo just to test the "Powerful" vocal mode + Tension in the high register (forget the flow and the too deep vibratos).
> 
> View attachment Ray of light_Weina vocal test.mp3


I agree the singing is gorgeous. If only the pronunciation could be made a little more open. It sounds too muffled for english.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Blancanegra said:


> The noise could be reduced with Breathness parameter.
> 
> Not sure what you mean with the over emphasized "the"s, perhaps you mean that they start very deep before reaching the tonality?


I mean the "the"s are too loud.

Hmm, the noise sounds like a digital artifact rather than what I'd think of as excessive breathiness, but hopefully that will work....


----------



## Blancanegra

soulofsound said:


> I agree the singing is gorgeous. If only the pronunciation could be made a little more open. It sounds too muffled for english.


I've been messing around a bit more and I think the most of the muffled sound is due to the vocal mode. In this demo I used the same track but with different vocal modes applied to each:

Lonestar (Norah Jones) - Vocal mode: Delicate 150%
View attachment Lonestar test.mp3


Lonestar (Norah Jones) - Vocal mode: Firm 50%
View attachment Lonestar (firm) test.mp3


I like the AI retakes system more and more, the timbre and dynamic variations are huge and very expressive. Her tone is awesome.

Anyway, for me Weina English sounds not well defined sometimes, compared to Solaria's perfect, crystal clear pronunciation.

I attached the project file, wich includes a semi-revised Solaria track using soft and airy vocal modes.

Please, comment what do you think of her English.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Blancanegra said:


> I've been messing around a bit more and I think the most of the muffled sound is due to the vocal mode. In this demo I used the same track but with different vocal modes applied to each:
> 
> Lonestar (Norah Jones) - Vocal mode: Delicate 150%
> View attachment Lonestar test.mp3
> 
> 
> Lonestar (Norah Jones) - Vocal mode: Firm 50%
> View attachment Lonestar (firm) test.mp3
> 
> 
> I like the AI retakes system more and more, the timbre and dynamic variations are huge and very expressive. Her tone is awesome.
> 
> Anyway, for me Weina English sounds not well defined sometimes, compared to Solaria's perfect, crystal clear pronunciation.
> 
> I attached the project file, wich includes a semi-revised Solaria track using soft and airy vocal modes.
> 
> Please, comment what do you think of her English.


These sound a lot closer to just being an occasional accent, and they're really great in places. The flow is very good, except in "It's dark, and" in the first one.

1:

Issues: 

Noisy: "st" of "Lonestar", maybe reduce breathiness or use deesser?

Initial "t" of "tonight" sounds off---partly because it's too soft, but it also sounds like a Chinese accent. Maybe try a different take of the consonant.

The "i" of "fight" sounds like the wrong vowels.

"It's dark and" - "d" of "dark" and vowel of "and" sound wrong, and the flow sounds off (and unnatural). 

"I" of "I would give anything" sounds like "of"....

2:

In this one the initial "t" of "tonight" sounds good enough, but the transition into the Final "t" of "tonight" suddenly introduces a very strong Chinese accent---the coarticulation is very different from English, and it's jarring.

"Th" of this and "f" of feeling, 

The "i" of "fight" is much better in 2. Sounds great.

Coarticulation of vowel going into the "t" of "It's dark" introduces a strong Chinese accent again. "Dark" has a slight Chinese accent, but the "and" (of "It's dark and") is pretty much perfect in this one.

The "I" of "I would give anything" sounds even more like "of", which is way off. In this style pronouncing "I" like "Ah" is pretty common (Southern / country / Western accent), but "uh" or "of" is just wrong.

"Anything" - that sounds great, love it.

"For you" - the "r" sounds off.

"on me" - might want to tweak the n, though it's not bad.

(It's probably worth mentioning that there are many different accents (and languages) in China, so of course there isn't just one "Chinese accent"....)


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> I've been messing around a bit more and I think the most of the muffled sound is due to the vocal mode. In this demo I used the same track but with different vocal modes applied to each:
> 
> Lonestar (Norah Jones) - Vocal mode: Delicate 150%
> View attachment Lonestar test.mp3
> 
> 
> Lonestar (Norah Jones) - Vocal mode: Firm 50%
> View attachment Lonestar (firm) test.mp3
> 
> 
> I like the AI retakes system more and more, the timbre and dynamic variations are huge and very expressive. Her tone is awesome.
> 
> Anyway, for me Weina English sounds not well defined sometimes, compared to Solaria's perfect, crystal clear pronunciation.
> 
> I attached the project file, wich includes a semi-revised Solaria track using soft and airy vocal modes.
> 
> Please, comment what do you think of her English.


The delicate setting here is perfect to my ears. As ever i appreciate your examples enormously. This convinced me Weina has superb potential. Thank you.


----------



## Blancanegra

After an endless afternoon of freezing issues with the app, I have something decent enough to show you:

Halo (Beyoncé) - Weina 1.7
View attachment Halo - Weina 1.7 test.mp3

Vocal modes:
Firm, powerful 100%
Resonant 60%
Warm 40%

Halo (Beyoncé) - Solaria 1.7
View attachment Halo - Solaria 1.7 test.mp3

Vocal modes:
Power 50%
Passionate 50%

Edition in both tracks is incomplete as I have a limited time to do this, but the purpose of both demos is to show the timbre richness. The AI pitch/timbre retakes is supercool. The timbre variation is really really huge, not only in the tone and dynamics but it also occasionally adds effects like fry voice or air exhalation at the phrase ends, but also undessired ends. I think I just scratched the surface!.

Weina here nails the tone along the complete register, and again was easier to tune than Solaria.

On the other hand, her English is not as good as Solaria's and the truth is, I haven't stopped to see if some of the faults found could be improved. Some "f"s do not sound as they should, the plosives lack aspiration, long melismas ending in "n", the "n" is too long and the duration must be corrected... to say the most obvious (for me). Some could be corrected in next updates, I guess.

There are no edits in the parameters (tension, breathness, voicing, etc.), except for a few pitch draw corrections in Pitch Deviation when the AI fails completely (always in the same places or circunstances, wathever the voice) and some added falsetto cracks or yodeling effects here and there with no much luck.

Project file attached, enjoy!


----------



## Blancanegra

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> These sound a lot closer to just being an occasional accent, and they're really great in places. The flow is very good, except in "It's dark, and" in the first one.
> 
> 1:
> 
> Issues:
> 
> Noisy: "st" of "Lonestar", maybe reduce breathiness or use deesser?
> 
> Initial "t" of "tonight" sounds off---partly because it's too soft, but it also sounds like a Chinese accent. Maybe try a different take of the consonant.
> 
> The "i" of "fight" sounds like the wrong vowels.
> 
> "It's dark and" - "d" of "dark" and vowel of "and" sound wrong, and the flow sounds off (and unnatural).
> 
> "I" of "I would give anything" sounds like "of"....
> 
> 2:
> 
> In this one the initial "t" of "tonight" sounds good enough, but the transition into the Final "t" of "tonight" suddenly introduces a very strong Chinese accent---the coarticulation is very different from English, and it's jarring.
> 
> "Th" of this and "f" of feeling,
> 
> The "i" of "fight" is much better in 2. Sounds great.
> 
> Coarticulation of vowel going into the "t" of "It's dark" introduces a strong Chinese accent again. "Dark" has a slight Chinese accent, but the "and" (of "It's dark and") is pretty much perfect in this one.
> 
> The "I" of "I would give anything" sounds even more like "of", which is way off. In this style pronouncing "I" like "Ah" is pretty common (Southern / country / Western accent), but "uh" or "of" is just wrong.
> 
> "Anything" - that sounds great, love it.
> 
> "For you" - the "r" sounds off.
> 
> "on me" - might want to tweak the n, though it's not bad.
> 
> (It's probably worth mentioning that there are many different accents (and languages) in China, so of course there isn't just one "Chinese accent"....)


Ooh, thank you for the detailed review, I'll check all that when I have time again.


----------



## ScarletJerry

Blancanegra said:


> After an endless afternoon of freezing issues with the app, I have something decent enough to show you:
> 
> Halo (Beyoncé) - Weina 1.7
> View attachment Halo - Weina 1.7 test.mp3
> 
> Vocal modes:
> Firm, powerful 100%
> Resonant 60%
> Warm 40%
> 
> Halo (Beyoncé) - Solaria 1.7
> View attachment Halo - Solaria 1.7 test.mp3
> 
> Vocal modes:
> Power 50%
> Passionate 50%
> 
> Edition in both tracks is incomplete as I have a limited time to do this, but the purpose of both demos is to show the timbre richness. The AI pitch/timbre retakes is supercool. The timbre variation is really really huge, not only in the tone and dynamics but it also occasionally adds effects like fry voice or air exhalation at the phrase ends, but also undessired ends. I think I just scratched the surface!.
> 
> Weina here nails the tone along the complete register, and again was easier to tune than Solaria.
> 
> On the other hand, her English is not as good as Solaria's and the truth is, I haven't stopped to see if some of the faults found could be improved. Some "f"s do not sound as they should, the plosives lack aspiration, long melismas ending in "n", the "n" is too long and the duration must be corrected... to say the most obvious (for me). Some could be corrected in next updates, I guess.
> 
> There are no edits in the parameters (tension, breathness, voicing, etc.), except for a few pitch draw corrections in Pitch Deviation when the AI fails completely (always in the same places or circunstances, wathever the voice) and some added falsetto cracks or yodeling effects here and there with no much luck.
> 
> Project file attached, enjoy!


These examples are super helpful. Thanks for sharing them with our community!

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Is it possible to load SVP files for a voice bank you don't have into Synth V Pro? For example, if I don't get Kevin, could I load a Kevin SVP file to use the pitch data for Solaria?


----------



## Blancanegra

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Is it possible to load SVP files for a voice bank you don't have into Synth V Pro? For example, if I don't get Kevin, could I load a Kevin SVP file to use the pitch data for Solaria?


Yes, you can assign any voice you own to each track, but would sing differently and adjustments would be needed. Every time you change the singer, the pitch is calculated again, until you deactivate instant mode. Once deactivated, the current pitch is copied to the Pitch Deviation parameter.


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> After an endless afternoon of freezing issues with the app, I have something decent enough to show you:
> 
> Halo (Beyoncé) - Weina 1.7
> View attachment Halo - Weina 1.7 test.mp3
> 
> Vocal modes:
> Firm, powerful 100%
> Resonant 60%
> Warm 40%
> 
> Halo (Beyoncé) - Solaria 1.7
> View attachment Halo - Solaria 1.7 test.mp3
> 
> Vocal modes:
> Power 50%
> Passionate 50%
> 
> Edition in both tracks is incomplete as I have a limited time to do this, but the purpose of both demos is to show the timbre richness. The AI pitch/timbre retakes is supercool. The timbre variation is really really huge, not only in the tone and dynamics but it also occasionally adds effects like fry voice or air exhalation at the phrase ends, but also undessired ends. I think I just scratched the surface!.
> 
> Weina here nails the tone along the complete register, and again was easier to tune than Solaria.
> 
> On the other hand, her English is not as good as Solaria's and the truth is, I haven't stopped to see if some of the faults found could be improved. Some "f"s do not sound as they should, the plosives lack aspiration, long melismas ending in "n", the "n" is too long and the duration must be corrected... to say the most obvious (for me). Some could be corrected in next updates, I guess.
> 
> There are no edits in the parameters (tension, breathness, voicing, etc.), except for a few pitch draw corrections in Pitch Deviation when the AI fails completely (always in the same places or circunstances, wathever the voice) and some added falsetto cracks or yodeling effects here and there with no much luck.
> 
> Project file attached, enjoy!


It sounds awesome. The quieter parts sound a lot better in the first example. The more forceful singing sounds a little better in the second i think. Huge potential. Wonderful sound. Thank you so much.


----------



## Fa

Casiquire said:


> Is Weina significantly worse than Solaria? Or is it a matter of being so new that the best demos haven't risen to the top yet? And I don't mean any disrespect to the people who have posted demos in here. My impression is that it's not user error; the voice just doesn't seem to flow as well.


I was also very disappointed by the sound of the demos I found on Youtube... but here some members are finally showing the potential and qualities of the new VB. Thank you all for the very helpful samples (I was buying all the new voices as a way to support Dreamtonics and because I loved them, but the last releases were not really convincing me, so now before I buy a new one I really want to understand if it's worth...)


----------



## madfloyd

Blancanegra said:


> I don't use any script. First I create the melody in the DAW, which I import as midi in the Synth V Pro editor, I write the lyrics and from there I start to edit the intonation and adjust the duration and strength of the phonemes.


OMG, I've been wishing for a midi import feature in this app... and it's been there all along? I've been painstakenly recreating the melodies all this time...


----------



## Blancanegra

soulofsound said:


> It sounds awesome. The quieter parts sound a lot better in the first example. The more forceful singing sounds a little better in the second i think. Huge potential. Wonderful sound. Thank you so much.


Yes, I agree. I spent more time with Solaria, then duplicated the track changing the voice to Weina, doing some minor editing.

I used Weina Warm vocal mode at 40%, where in the stronger parts Warm must be 0%.

Notice that I was using Solaria's Power vocal mode at 50% only, she can sing even stronger.

While editing I was getting a freeze every 2 minutes or so, which was a pain in the ass.


----------



## raidergale

Please stop posting all those great Weina examples, my wallet can't take it! (just kidding, please keep posting them, I really like her voice and I might buy her next month)


Crashing used to be a huge issue for me too with the new update, but it looks like I managed to lower the frequency of them by setting the Power Management option to "Max Performance" and then restarting the rendering system. Might be placebo or just a coincidence, but it does look more stable to me this way...


----------



## Phillip Dixon

New user question. can't find info by search. Can I use synth V like any other vst, use unfinished track on daw and play along with, so I can make changes to music as I go. From what I've seen, you need to Inport track into synth V


----------



## palefire88

Phillip Dixon said:


> New user question. can't find info by search. Can I use synth V like any other vst, use unfinished track on daw and play along with, so I can make changes to music as I go. From what I've seen, you need to Inport track into synth V


you can use it as other vst, it will play along with your other tracks in your daw, in the daw that I use, i just need to have synth V vst window open to get it to play along with other tracks. when i finish each section with synth V, i usually record to a new audio track, so easier to playback with other tracks when editing other track in the daw, but i still have the synth v track that i can go back to edit the vocal when i need to


----------



## Blancanegra

raidergale said:


> Please stop posting all those great Weina examples, my wallet can't take it! (just kidding, please keep posting them, I really like her voice and I might buy her next month)
> 
> 
> Crashing used to be a huge issue for me too with the new update, but it looks like I managed to lower the frequency of them by setting the Power Management option to "Max Performance" and then restarting the rendering system. Might be placebo or just a coincidence, but it does look more stable to me this way...


Wow, that's solved the freezes for now!

Another fast demo to say thanks:

Never can say goodbye (Gloria Gaynor) - Weina 1.7
View attachment Never can say goodbye - Weina 1.7 test.mp3


In 1.7 the dynamic range in the rendered output is wider(depending the vocal modes used) and I have to set Loudness in Voice Panel/Parameters to negative values to prevent clipping in this case.


----------



## Blancanegra

Weina is a very good voice for jazz!

Cheek to cheek (Ella Fitzgerald) - Weina 1.7
View attachment Cheek to cheek - Weina 1.7 test.mp3

Vocal modes:
Delicate 60%
Tender 100 %
Resonant 20%

With the introduction of the High Dynamic Voice Models via AI Retakes, there is practically no need to edit other parameters, wich is very convenient, as the user can be now more creative with the wide timbre variations.

In fact, if projects prior to version 1.7 currently the sound is bad, you can try removing all the changes made in the tension, voicing, breathness and loudness parameter panels.

Try the attached project file!


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> Wow, that's solved the freezes for now!
> 
> Another fast demo to say thanks:
> 
> Never can say goodbye (Gloria Gaynor) - Weina 1.7
> View attachment Never can say goodbye - Weina 1.7 test.mp3
> 
> 
> In 1.7 the dynamic range in the rendered output is wider(depending the vocal modes used) and I have to set Loudness in Voice Panel/Parameters to negative values to prevent clipping in this case.


Except for the belting, i like the timbre of Weina a lot better than Gloria Gaynor's. Sorry Gloria.


----------



## Blancanegra

soulofsound said:


> Except for the belting, i like the timbre of Weina a lot better than Gloria Gaynor's. Sorry Gloria.


Me too, although the song wasn't a good choice for her!


----------



## soulofsound

A bit of an unrelated question but do other Synth V users also have no downloads in their account?




I got the download links by email, but that's it. I can't access any of my products in my account, although it lists my order.


----------



## cloudrunner92

@Blancanegra Again really nice examples! So do you just create retakes for every note that you don't like or that doesn't sound quite right and play with the expressiveness until a take is created that fits what you had in mind?

@soulofsound Does this downloads page work for you? https://auth.dreamtonics.com/store/download


In the meantime, the EP I've been working on with my friend is finally out now, featuring some more Solaria background vocals, specifically in this reel here:



Funniest moment ever was when the guy who mastered it for us (and did a really great job!) gave us the advice to ask our female singer if she's going to be happy with how her part sounds now - with that "female singer" being Solaria 😁 For me that goes to show again how far we've come with this technology. And it makes me wonder when we'll start using similar approaches also for orchestral instruments, for example 🤔


----------



## soulofsound

cloudrunner92 said:


> @Blancanegra Again really nice examples! So do you just create retakes for every note that you don't like or that doesn't sound quite right and play with the expressiveness until a take is created that fits what you had in mind?
> 
> @soulofsound Does this downloads page work for you? https://auth.dreamtonics.com/store/download
> 
> 
> In the meantime, the EP I've been working on with my friend is finally out now, featuring some more Solaria background vocals, specifically in this reel here:
> 
> 
> 
> Funniest moment ever was when the guy who mastered it for us (and did a really great job!) gave us the advice to ask our female singer if she's going to be happy with how her part sounds now - with that "female singer" being Solaria 😁 For me that goes to show again how far we've come with this technology. And it makes me wonder when we'll start using similar approaches also for orchestral instruments, for example 🤔



Yes, i have the download links in my email (which lead to the page you posted) and they work.
I merely wished to ask other users if it is a known issue that the downloads are not visible in my account.
Any chance it will get fixed?


----------



## cloudrunner92

soulofsound said:


> Yes, i have the download links in my email (which lead to the page you posted) and they work.
> I merely wished to ask other users if it is a known issue that the downloads are not visible in my account.
> Any chance it will get fixed?


Oh, my bad. I can confirm though that the download page in my account is empty as well, but the orders page does show my orders.


----------



## Blancanegra

soulofsound said:


> A bit of an unrelated question but do other Synth V users also have no downloads in their account?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got the download links by email, but that's it. I can't access any of my products in my account, although it lists my order.





cloudrunner92 said:


> Oh, my bad. I can confirm though that the download page in my account is empty as well, but the orders page does show my orders.


Same here!


----------



## Blancanegra

I'm in love with Weina's voice!

Que sera, sera (Doris Day)- Weina 1.7
View attachment Que sera - Weina 1.7 test.mp3


A perfect Spanish, by the way!. Very open vowels, perfect alveolar flap, and I've been able to reduce the aspiration of the k setting the phoneme strength to a low value.

My impression is that Weina sings much better than other voices, I don't know if it is something intrinsic to the Gold Series since I haven't been able to compare if other voices have received improvements in this aspect.

Project file is attached, test your girls!


----------



## mallux

Running into a pronunciation issue... I'm trying to get Solaria to sing "between" but no matter what parameters I adjust she always sings "bidween". I've tried turning off soft consonants, ramping up the "t" to max duration and strength... even inserting another "t" so it becomes /b ih t t w iy n/ but I just can't get her to sing a hard "T".

Any ideas?

(NB Kevin seems to have the same problem)


----------



## mallux

mallux said:


> Running into a pronunciation issue... I'm trying to get Solaria to sing "between" but no matter what parameters I adjust she always sings "bidween". I've tried turning off soft consonants, ramping up the "t" to max duration and strength... even inserting another "t" so it becomes /b ih t t w iy n/ but I just can't get her to sing a hard "T".
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> (NB Kevin seems to have the same problem)


Just to answer my own question - changing the first vowel to a (short) iy, and maxing out the strength & duration of the second "t" seems to do the trick.


----------



## Blancanegra

cloudrunner92 said:


> @Blancanegra Again really nice examples! So do you just create retakes for every note that you don't like or that doesn't sound quite right and play with the expressiveness until a take is created that fits what you had in mind?


Exactly, since 1.7 I use AI retakes only until I found something that works. In the future I would like to be able to tell the retake if I want something stronger or softer, brighter or darker, crescendo or diminuendo... time will tell.

Also a wider waveform with heatmap or something like that would help a lot.


----------



## Blancanegra

Another demo with Weina, very happy with her tone and pronunciation, what do you think?

All by myself (Celine Dion) - Weina 1.7
View attachment All by myself - Weina 1.7 test.mp3


Enjoy the project file!


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Local tax is 8%, but Dreamtonics store is adding a 10% tax... WTF? Is that an error? Some sort of additional Japanese tax?...


----------



## philthevoid

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Local tax is 8%, but Dreamtonics store is adding a 10% tax... WTF? Is that an error? Some sort of additional Japanese tax?...


As far as I know, that's not how taxes work. You don't pay local taxes AND foreign taxes.
Basically, even though Dreamtonics charge in USD, their online store is probably located in Japan, and they are charging you the regular 10% taxes that they have over there.


----------



## Pier-V

Hi everyone! Even though recently I've been inactive I've followed closely the development of this thread.
I'd like to thank Blancanegra for constantly exploring the boundaries of what is possible with this Vst (your covers motivated me a lot during the learning process, which is still ongoing of course), and David Cuny for providing so many useful information on how the inner structure of SynthV is supposed to work. Also, a very special thank you to Raidergale for making the downloads of all the PMJ covers available as project files: I've studied four of them, and you have no idea how much they helped me grasp some vital concepts concerning vibrato shape, accents and so on.

Now, about the 1.7 update. I honestly think this update is a serious gamechanger. Before making the big move I made a quick experiment with the previous version: I was surprised by how Solaria pronounced the word "Joy" in the most recent Dreamtonics video, so I tried to replicate that specific phoneme combination using every possible parameter editing in the seven functions + phoneme lenght/strenght, but nothing of what I did was able to even approach the result showcased in the video. After the update, it was as simple as writing the word and pressing play: the program handled the rest.
I suspect 1.7 has introduced not only vocal modes, HDVM and a *drastically* better workflow, but some additional improvements are happening under the hood as well. Also, I feel the auto-pitch function (oops, I mean "Instant mode") utilizes an updated generation for its neural network - the voicebanks seem to have a less nervous, more expressive intonation and, most importantly, they seem more aware of how words are supposed to be sung in relation to their placement in the phrase they belong to. Am I the only one who got that impression?

Just for fun, I've also made an acapella cover and a brief "excercise/improvisation" in two completely different styles. Up until now I didn't make any covers because it was too time consuming, but now the whole process is just so quick and fun, so who knows...
What to know: both the excerpts have no editing whatsoever except for the use of the new "take" function, and only to correct very obvious mistakes - they're not perfect by any means and there's still room for improvement, but on the bright side they should give an idea of how the pro version performs nearly out the box.
Btw, in the final part of the cover I tested a side effect of the take function: writing for a section instead of a soloist. I used 5 instances of Solaria singing in unison and simply used a different take for each voice. Do you hear phasing issues?
Known bugs: "the" in "jewels behind the throne" is a bit too sharp and the entirety of the improv lyrics (I focused mainly on melody and needed a placeholder - the "poetry" side of things is still a WIP, sorry).
That said, enjoy the listening! Constructive criticism much appreciated!

The calling - The fat rat

View attachment The Calling (The Fat Rat Tribute) - Solaria.mp3


Solaria's cheerful, silly improv to celebrate the update and test two part writing

View attachment Solaria Cheerful Song (1.7 Update).mp3


(Jokes aside, I've actually started writing something with more serious lyrics, but it's waaay too early to show it here)


----------



## ScarletJerry

Pier-V said:


> Hi everyone! Even though recently I've been inactive I've followed closely the development of this thread.
> I'd like to thank Blancanegra for constantly exploring the boundaries of what is possible with this Vst (your covers motivated me a lot during the learning process, which is still ongoing of course), and David Cuny for providing so many useful information on how the inner structure of SynthV is supposed to work. Also, a very special thank you to Raidergale for making the downloads of all the PMJ covers available as project files: I've studied four of them, and you have no idea how much they helped me grasp some vital concepts concerning vibrato shape, accents and so on.
> 
> Now, about the 1.7 update. I honestly think this update is a serious gamechanger. Before making the big move I made a quick experiment with the previous version: I was surprised by how Solaria pronounced the word "Joy" in the most recent Dreamtonics video, so I tried to replicate that specific phoneme combination using every possible parameter editing in the seven functions + phoneme lenght/strenght, but nothing of what I did was able to even approach the result showcased in the video. After the update, it was as simple as writing the word and pressing play: the program handled the rest.
> I suspect 1.7 has introduced not only vocal modes, HDVM and a *drastically* better workflow, but some additional improvements are happening under the hood as well. Also, I feel the auto-pitch function (oops, I mean "Instant mode") utilizes an updated generation for its neural network - the voicebanks seem to have a less nervous, more expressive intonation and, most importantly, they seem more aware of how words are supposed to be sung in relation to their placement in the phrase they belong to. Am I the only one who got that impression?
> 
> Just for fun, I've also made an acapella cover and a brief "excercise/improvisation" in two completely different styles. Up until now I didn't make any covers because it was too time consuming, but now the whole process is just so quick and fun, so who knows...
> What to know: both the excerpts have no editing whatsoever except for the use of the new "take" function, and only to correct very obvious mistakes - they're not perfect by any means and there's still room for improvement, but on the bright side they should give an idea of how the pro version performs nearly out the box.
> Btw, in the final part of the cover I tested a side effect of the take function: writing for a section instead of a soloist. I used 5 instances of Solaria singing in unison and simply used a different take for each voice. Do you hear phasing issues?
> Known bugs: "the" in "jewels behind the throne" is a bit too sharp and the entirety of the improv lyrics (I focused mainly on melody and needed a placeholder - the "poetry" side of things is still a WIP, sorry).
> That said, enjoy the listening! Constructive criticism much appreciated!
> 
> The calling - The fat rat
> 
> View attachment The Calling (The Fat Rat Tribute) - Solaria.mp3
> 
> 
> Solaria's cheerful, silly improv to celebrate the update and test two part writing
> 
> View attachment Solaria Cheerful Song (1.7 Update).mp3
> 
> 
> (Jokes aside, I've actually started writing something with more serious lyrics, but it's waaay too early to show it here)


Wow! I love the idea of using multiple takes to simulate a group of singers. Brilliant!

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Cyberic

Blancanegra said:


> Another demo with Weina, very happy with her tone and pronunciation, what do you think?
> 
> All by myself (Celine Dion)


Mega! - very well done.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Hi folks!

I am a bit out of the loop with the recent updates, only had a few brief moments with Synth V for the last few weeks. Firing it up today made me wonder about 2 things, maybe you have a clue:

A) Is it me, or one major handle is missing in the parameters now? The one that was responsible for more tight or loose humanization of the notes, it was above other handles in both voice tab, and individual notes tab....

B) The new HDVM thingie - is it some passive, under the hood thing, or is there anything to tweak?


Thanks in advance !


----------



## raidergale

Vlzmusic said:


> Hi folks!
> 
> I am a bit out of the loop with the recent updates, only had a few brief moments with Synth V for the last few weeks. Firing it up today made me wonder about 2 things, maybe you have a clue:
> 
> A) Is it me, or one major handle is missing in the parameters now? The one that was responsible for more tight or loose humanization of the notes, it was above other handles in both voice tab, and individual notes tab....
> 
> B) The new HDVM thingie - is it some passive, under the hood thing, or is there anything to tweak?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance !


Do you mean the Instant pitch random seed and effect? It got replaced with the new Takes feature now, it's the movie clapperboard icon. If Instant Mode is on you can go in the Pitch section of that icon and either change the global value of the effect, select a few notes and change the value for those specific notes, and create new takes for the selected notes.

The Timbre section of this function is HDVM, it works the same way. It's set to 100% by default for all notes, some voices work better with lower values, but it's up to tastes. You can again change the global value, select some notes and change it for those specific ones, and generate additional takes for the selected notes. New timbre takes are quite useful because they might change the pronunciation and tone of a specific selected note, so you can generate takes until you get one that you like. Also, the Timbre function also works with Instant Mode off, only the Pitch one requires to have it on.


----------



## Blancanegra

Vlzmusic said:


> Hi folks!
> 
> I am a bit out of the loop with the recent updates, only had a few brief moments with Synth V for the last few weeks. Firing it up today made me wonder about 2 things, maybe you have a clue:
> 
> A) Is it me, or one major handle is missing in the parameters now? The one that was responsible for more tight or loose humanization of the notes, it was above other handles in both voice tab, and individual notes tab....
> 
> B) The new HDVM thingie - is it some passive, under the hood thing, or is there anything to tweak?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance !





raidergale said:


> Do you mean the Instant pitch random seed and effect? It got replaced with the new Takes feature now, it's the movie clapperboard icon. If Instant Mode is on you can go in the Pitch section of that icon and either change the global value of the effect, select a few notes and change the value for those specific notes, and create new takes for the selected notes.
> 
> The Timbre section of this function is HDVM, it works the same way. It's set to 100% by default for all notes, some voices work better with lower values, but it's up to tastes. You can again change the global value, select some notes and change it for those specific ones, and generate additional takes for the selected notes. New timbre takes are quite useful because they might change the pronunciation and tone of a specific selected note, so you can generate takes until you get one that you like. Also, the Timbre function also works with Instant Mode off, only the Pitch one requires to have it on.


About the results of using *HDVM* with other voices I can't give an opinion because I am completely enchanted with Weina, but using her *I have forgotten about the existence of the parameters and I only use the AI Retakes* to find the timbre and dynamics that I need in each note.

I'm attaching a preview of an exercise where I'm having fun trying to approximate the original singer's timbre and dynamics just using AI Retakes. Some notes need adjustment because they sound very strong or weak, but in any case they are very rich in sound nuances that were not possible before. I'll post the project file as soon as I can finish it.

Yesterday once more (The Carpenters) - Weina 1.7
View attachment Yesterday once more - Weina 1.7 sneak peek.mp3


----------



## mallux

I've downgraded to SynthV 1.6.1 and pre-HDVM versions Kevin and Solaria. I couldn't get them to sound anywhere near decent with 1.7.0 (with no random pronunciation, sound quality or dynamics issues), and the "retakes" feature was a step too far, I much prefer the Randomize button. If and when Dreamtonics get their act together I'll consider upgrading, but for now I'm happy to have the older reliable workflow back again.


----------



## Blancanegra

mallux said:


> I've downgraded to SynthV 1.6.1 and pre-HDVM versions Kevin and Solaria. I couldn't get them to sound anywhere near decent with 1.7.0 (with no random pronunciation, sound quality or dynamics issues), and the "retakes" feature was a step too far, I much prefer the Randomize button. If and when Dreamtonics get their act together I'll consider upgrading, but for now I'm happy to have the older reliable workflow back again.


I'm sorry it's too late for you to test, but is possible to reduce the HDVM effect as described in this Dreamtonics's twitter thread:


----------



## mallux

Blancanegra said:


> I'm it's too late for you to test, but is possible to reduce the HDVM effect as described in this Dreamtonics's twitter thread:



Yeah, must admit I didn't try the global setting, but did try selecting all notes and reducing Timbre to zero, which did help a bit, but later in that twitter thread other folks are saying it still doesn't fully address the problem. Sounds like Dreamtonics are well aware of the problem, and have even promised to do more beta testing before releasing, so I'm sure some more fixes will come out in the next few weeks. In the meantime I have an album I want to finish... life's too short


----------



## madfloyd

Has anyone been able to get the keyboard shortcuts working to switch between select and write modes?

It's supposed to be alt+1 & alt+2 but it doesn't work me (I'm using a VST inside a DAW).


----------



## raidergale

madfloyd said:


> Has anyone been able to get the keyboard shortcuts working to switch between select and write modes?
> 
> It's supposed to be alt+1 & alt+2 but it doesn't work me (I'm using a VST inside a DAW).


I've just tried myself and the shortcut works perfectly in the standalone program, but it doesn't in the VST version because it goes into conflict with another shortcut the main DAW uses. Maybe that's the case for you? You could try changing the shortcut to something the DAW doesn't use and see if that fixes the problem.


As an aside, I've tried using HDVM set to 150% with a Japanese voice, Saki AI. I know this is mainly focused on English songs, but I might as well share this to get an idea of what 150% HDVM sounds like, even if it's in a foreign language. The original singer for this, Sheena Ringo, sings in a very stylized way and rolls a lot of her Rs, so it was definitely fun to try and replicate this in SynthV. The base was as always made with Hataori's RealVoice script, which was then edited inside the program itself.


----------



## Daren Audio

Blancanegra said:


> Weina is a very good voice for jazz!
> 
> Cheek to cheek (Ella Fitzgerald) - Weina 1.7
> View attachment Cheek to cheek - Weina 1.7 test.mp3
> 
> Vocal modes:
> Delicate 60%
> Tender 100 %
> Resonant 20%
> 
> With the introduction of the High Dynamic Voice Models via AI Retakes, there is practically no need to edit other parameters, wich is very convenient, as the user can be now more creative with the wide timbre variations.
> 
> In fact, if projects prior to version 1.7 currently the sound is bad, you can try removing all the changes made in the tension, voicing, breathness and loudness parameter panels.
> 
> Try the attached project file!


This is fabulous!


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> About the results of using *HDVM* with other voices I can't give an opinion because I am completely enchanted with Weina, but using her *I have forgotten about the existence of the parameters and I only use the AI Retakes* to find the timbre and dynamics that I need in each note.
> 
> I'm attaching a preview of an exercise where I'm having fun trying to approximate the original singer's timbre and dynamics just using AI Retakes. Some notes need adjustment because they sound very strong or weak, but in any case they are very rich in sound nuances that were not possible before. I'll post the project file as soon as I can finish it.
> 
> Yesterday once more (The Carpenters) - Weina 1.7
> View attachment Yesterday once more - Weina 1.7 sneak peek.mp3


Carpenters is just perfect for her voice. Did you change the register on purpose?


----------



## Blancanegra

soulofsound said:


> Carpenters is just perfect for her voice. Did you change the register on purpose?


Yes, a little Gender (0.05) and the Resonant vocal mode helped to sound somewhat close to Karen's voice, in combination with other modes in different parts along the song.

I finished with the demo for now, still needs some tweaking here and there but is good enough I guess, I prefer to continue with something different. Enjoy the project file!.

Yersterday once more (The Carpenters) - Weina 1.7
View attachment Yesterday once more - Weina 1.7 test.mp3


----------



## ScarletJerry

Blancanegra said:


> Yes, a little Gender (0.05) and the Resonant vocal mode helped to sound somewhat close to Karen's voice, in combination with other modes in different parts along the song.
> 
> I finished with the demo for now, still needs some tweaking here and there but is good enough I guess, I prefer to continue with something different. Enjoy the project file!.
> 
> Yersterday once more (The Carpenters) - Weina 1.7
> View attachment Yesterday once more - Weina 1.7 test.mp3


Wow! You did a great job - thanks for sharing the files.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## baggage




----------



## Koyo

baggage said:


>



Can someone tell me about Eclipsed Sounds' "crowdfunding update"? I don't use Twitter anymore because of its selected news blocking algorithms.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Koyo said:


> Can someone tell me about Eclipsed Sounds' "crowdfunding update"? I don't use Twitter anymore because of its selected news blocking algorithms.


Solaria is now available on the Dreamtonics store. Including as part of the Synth V Pro + voice bank bundle.


----------



## odod

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Local tax is 8%, but Dreamtonics store is adding a 10% tax... WTF? Is that an error? Some sort of additional Japanese tax?...


lucky only 8% .. mine 11%


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Koyo said:


> Can someone tell me about Eclipsed Sounds' "crowdfunding update"? I don't use Twitter anymore because of its selected news blocking algorithms.


This site keeps automatically applying "media" tags to the Indiegogo updates link that prevent it from displaying correctly. Maybe this will work:

first part: "https://"

second part:

"www.indiegogo.com/projects/"

third part:

"new-virtual-singer-solaria#/updates/all"

paste those together to make a single url, then scroll down to "updates", it will be the top one. It's long. It also says they'll be starting a newsletter in the future.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Experimenting with Weina--it started out well, but I'm having a hard time getting her to sing "time". Synth V translates it into "th m 7" which she sings like "mmmuh". I tried variations on "th ay m" or "th 7 ay m" but she pronounces it like "Tom", wtf? Also, I don't see 7 in the modified arpabet guide, where is the documentation?

[Edit: getting a little closer by including a separate "i" symbol but "ah i", "ay i", and "7 i" still sound pretty bad as attempts at English....]


----------



## Blancanegra

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Experimenting with Weina--it started out well, but I'm having a hard time getting her to sing "time". Synth V translates it into "th m 7" which she sings like "mmmuh". I tried variations on "th ay m" or "th 7 ay m" but she pronounces it like "Tom", wtf? Also, I don't see 7 in the modified arpabet guide, where is the documentation?
> 
> [Edit: getting a little closer by including a separate "i" symbol but "ah i", "ay i", and "7 i" still sound pretty bad as attempts at English....]


Seems you are using Chinesse instead of English. You can change languages in the voice panel (the mic icon).


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Blancanegra said:


> Seems you are using Chinesse instead of English. You can change languages in the voice panel (the mic icon).


LOL exactly, thanks!


----------



## richiebee

I can't believe I ignored this thread for so long. I kept seeing it come up, but never clicked on it. Then I happened to be looking for a vocal plugin, saw some YT videos on this thing, came to the end of the thread, and was amazed. Just picked it up, and I'm just gobsmacked at how good it is and how easy it is to get those good results.


----------



## Piano Pete

Been away from SynthV for a bit but I have some Q's that it would be awesome to get answers to by people who are current.

1) I am Still running an older version of Synth V. I think like, 1.3. Is it worth upgrading at this point? I have been hearing a lot of issues with 1.7 breaking sound banks (apologies if this has already been discussed). I use some ported libraries like Yamine Renri, and it would kind of suck to have that get nuked by updating. Luckily I saved my initial installers, so at worse I can just redo that.

2) With the AI retakes, are you able to manually adjust curves and data after the fact to tailor things?

3) I see Dreamtonics finally has a store--yipee. Do we have to shift our licenses over to that account moving forward, or how is this being handled? This part of the community has always been frustrating—managing licenses and activations from multiple sites etc.


----------



## stigbn

Piano Pete said:


> Been away from SynthV for a bit but I have some Q's that it would be awesome to get answers to by people who are current.
> 
> 1) I am Still running an older version of Synth V. I think like, 1.3. Is it worth upgrading at this point? I have been hearing a lot of issues with 1.7 breaking sound banks (apologies if this has already been discussed). I use some ported libraries like Yamine Renri, and it would kind of suck to have that get nuked by updating. Luckily I saved my initial installers, so at worse I can just redo that.
> 
> 2) With the AI retakes, are you able to manually adjust curves and data after the fact to tailor things?
> 
> 3) I see Dreamtonics finally has a store--yipee. Do we have to shift our licenses over to that account moving forward, or how is this being handled? This part of the community has always been frustrating—managing licenses and activations from multiple sites etc.


1: I also have Yamine Renri and it works perfectly, even with instant mode. But you cant use auto-pitch tuning on that bank as it is not an AI-bank (I think that's the reason).
2: Yes, you can draw your own curves and change the AI curves to your liking. The script 'scale pitch deviation' , which I use a lot, also works.
3: dont know about that.

And I have not had any issues with version 1.7, no crash or anything. But it is correct that some users are reporting crashes, so I don't know if you're safe...


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

stigbn said:


> 1: I also have Yamine Renri and it works perfectly, even with instant mode. But you cant use auto-pitch tuning on that bank as it is not an AI-bank (I think that's the reason).
> 2: Yes, you can draw your own curves and change the AI curves to your liking. The script 'scale pitch deviation' , which I use a lot, also works.
> 3: dont know about that.
> 
> And I have not had any issues with version 1.7, no crash or anything. But it is correct that some users are reporting crashes, so I don't know if you're safe...


Where can I download the "scale pitch deviation" script? A quick Google search didn't turn up anything relevant....


----------



## stigbn

I think I found a link to it on 'forum.synthesizerv.com' but I can't find it here anymore.


----------



## David Cuny

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Where can I download the "scale pitch deviation" script? A quick Google search didn't turn up anything relevant....


Oh! _I _wrote that one. 

I think it's posted on this thread, but I just uploaded it to GitHub:









synth-v-scripts/Scale Pitch Deviation.lua at main · dcuny/synth-v-scripts


Scripts for the Synthesizer V program. Contribute to dcuny/synth-v-scripts development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com


----------



## stigbn

Thank you David Cuny, this script has been very helpful to me!


----------



## raidergale

I got Weina and I did a couple of tests. First one shows a genre where her voice doesn't work that well in my opinion. Solaria fits this a lot better. Mixing is really bad because I didn't like how her voice sounded, so I gave up before fixing it.

View attachment Don'tStopMeNow.mp3


I then tried a song by the Carpenters and her voice definitely fits a lot better.

View attachment OnlyJustBegun.mp3


I think Solaria is easier to use and produces better results by default, but Weina's tone is really nice and you can get really nice results by editing parameters. Her accent is also a lot less noticeable than other Chinese voicebanks, so it's clear that she was also trained on English songs.


----------



## Vlzmusic

raidergale said:


> I got Weina and I did a couple of tests. First one shows a genre where her voice doesn't work that well in my opinion. Solaria fits this a lot better...


I think it sounds great, since you used some kind of jazzed up version of the song. Solaria would fit better in the original rock arrangement. Weina sounds better here than in many other instances, were I always get distracted by some unpleasant spots. 

I will definitely get her at some point, but judging by the demos, Weina is a double edged sword ATM - more advanced results and great timbre overall, with some strange moments that brake the immersion in a way that wasn't happening in the other voices. Still, if its just a question of avoiding, and retaking spots you dislike - the results worth it I think 👍.


----------



## raidergale

Vlzmusic said:


> I think it sounds great, since you used some kind of jazzed up version of the song. Solaria would fit better in the original rock arrangement. Weina sounds better here than in many other instances, were I always get distracted by some unpleasant spots.


Yeah, it's a cover by Postmodern Jukebox. I wasn't sold on it, but I could continue if people think it sounds good, because it's true that the worst critic is always oneself.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

David Cuny said:


> That said, most vocal isolation programs are based off Spleeter. The vocal quality doesn't have to be great, since all you really want is the isolated pitch information.
> 
> The main problem with that approach is that it's hard to find vocal tracks that only consist of single vocals - there's a lot of doubling and harmonies on vocals.


From what I've read doubles are almost always panned, and harmonies frequently are, while the lead vocal is almost always in the center. Waves Center and some other plugins claim to be able to isolate the center---will they remove panned doubles and harmonies? Has anyone found these plugins useful with PRAAT and if so which ones are most useful? Someone recommended A1Audio A1StereoControl as a free alternative to Center....

Does DeepRemix usually give significantly more usable results for PRAAT than Spleeter? DeepRemix is available at Thomann now for $55:









Hit'n'Mix RipX: DeepRemix


Audio Editor (download) AI-based editor for separating voices, drums, bass and other instruments in finished mixes, Suitable for creating stems for DJ sets, as a practice aid for learning music pieces, for creating backing tracks, etc., Export...




www.thomannmusic.com


----------



## richiebee

@Pier-V (or anyone really) how do you put audio snips inline here? I'd like to share my first one minute demo with Solaria.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

richiebee said:


> @Pier-V (or anyone really) how do you put audio snips inline here? I'd like to share my first one minute demo with Solaria.


Just attach the file and then all the attached attachments have their own button to insert them with the player


----------



## Blancanegra

raidergale said:


> I think Solaria is easier to use and produces better results by default, but Weina's tone is really nice and you can get really nice results by editing parameters. Her accent is also a lot less noticeable than other Chinese voicebanks, so it's clear that she was also trained on English songs.





Vlzmusic said:


> I will definitely get her at some point, but judging by the demos, Weina is a double edged sword ATM - more advanced results and great timbre overall, with some strange moments that brake the immersion in a way that wasn't happening in the other voices. Still, if its just a question of avoiding, and retaking spots you dislike - the results worth it I think 👍.


The tone variations for Weina are huge. Perhaps that's why it seems more difficult to handle as the results are more unexpected, for better and worse. Against that, you can reduce the timbre expressiveness in AI retakes globally or locally to obtain a more uniform tone. I also get the impression that changing the expressiveness of a retake sometimes affects the adjacent notes.


----------



## richiebee

Just sharing my first one minute demo of Solaria. I got Synth V on Thursday and was a little frustrated that was no manual. I'm not one to read them cover to cover, but I do like to refer to things when I don't know what something does. I have a bit of (even more frustrated) experience with Vocaloids going back years, but haven't used any such tool in probably around 5 years. I spent some time figuring out what things did, asked a few questions on the official forum, and searched around for a couple of answers. Still a little frustrated, but I can't believe how easy it is to get expressive results.

Caveat: I have a few things to fix in this... volume seems to be a bit weird in the second vocal phrase. Pronounciation of "saves" at 0:48 needs to be tweaked and piano sus chord at 0:44 is wrong.

Otherwise, for the tiny amount of work put into making this vocal line happen, I'm delighted. Far from perfect, but it has so much personality and dynamic and timbral variation. I wanted to do my first demo as something with a big dynamic range, so its a cut up (not even sure if the lyrics are right tbh - lol). I don't usually do covers, but this one is. Piano performance is EZ keys (took longer to tweak this than to work on Solaria), played on Noire.

View attachment wonder-1min-demo.mp3


----------



## Pier-V

richiebee said:


> Just sharing my first one minute demo of Solaria. I got Synth V on Thursday and was a little frustrated that was no manual. I'm not one to read them cover to cover, but I do like to refer to things when I don't know what something does. I have a bit of (even more frustrated) experience with Vocaloids going back years, but haven't used any such tool in probably around 5 years. I spent some time figuring out what things did, asked a few questions on the official forum, and searched around for a couple of answers. Still a little frustrated, but I can't believe how easy it is to get expressive results.
> 
> Caveat: I have a few things to fix in this... volume seems to be a bit weird in the second vocal phrase. Pronounciation of "saves" at 0:48 needs to be tweaked and piano sus chord at 0:44 is wrong.
> 
> Otherwise, for the tiny amount of work put into making this vocal line happen, I'm delighted. Far from perfect, but it has so much personality and dynamic and timbral variation. I wanted to do my first demo as something with a big dynamic range, so its a cut up (not even sure if the lyrics are right tbh - lol). I don't usually do covers, but this one is. Piano performance is EZ keys (took longer to tweak this than to work on Solaria), played on Noire.
> 
> View attachment wonder-1min-demo.mp3


Considering this is your first attempt at using SynthV, the result is impressive! As you wrote yourself, I can definitely hear a lot of timbral variation, and to my ears the overal intonation is really good as well.



richiebee said:


> volume seems to be a bit weird in the second vocal phrase


Maybe I can help with this issue, but what I'm about to write only applies if you automated the tension and/or loudness functions (if you used vocal modes instead you can simply ignore this part): Solaria has a very peculiar way of handling those two paramenters - depending on their value _at the beginning of a note_, sometimes the voicebank processes breathiness volume and brightness in the upper overtones in a completely different way, causing some unwanted artifacts in the most extreme cases. It's also important to notice that what happens to those two parameters _after_ a note is sung is not relevant in that specific regard: what I mean is, you can still hear a coherent change in timbre, but breathiness and upper overtones are not processed so drastically anymore. For example, these three shapes, altough very similiar at fisrt glance, give three slightly different performances:






Please keep in mind that these are not official info of any sort, it's just something I randomly noticed after some time. Also, this doesn't happen always and I don't even know if this behaviour was rewritten after the 1.7 update because, honestly, I'm finding myself using vocal modes more and more instead of the functions: usually I start with a mix of Soft/Airy or Passionate/Power depending on the desired dynamic, then I add a touch of one of the remaining modes to further shape the tone.
I still consider the functions to be useful to add accents and correct mistakes anyway. The loudness function, in particular, has proven really useful to balance the natural lack of presence in the extreme lower register, allowing Solaria to sing comfortably up to an f# or so.

Btw, in @raidergale 's PMJ covers I noticed he was even able to change vocal modes without the need to open a new instance of the same voicebank, using groups I think. I'm still having a hard time figuring out that trick though.


----------



## richiebee

Thanks for that information. Very useful, and I'll use this for next experiments.  I did automate the loudness, breathiness and tension (I think from memory). I couldn't figure out a way to change the vocal modes during a "performance". Now I'm wondering if I can automate these in my DAW. Will check it out later when I'm on my desktop. So to use a different vocal mode, you create a new track inside SV? I hadn't even thought of doing that, though I am hoping there's an easier way. Must look into whether groups can do this some how.


----------



## richiebee

@Pier-V I think I've figured out how to create custom groups to assign modes. It's only additive though. So, you do a "Merge to group", and a line will appear underneath with the name of the group...






... if you click on this, it isolates the group, and then you can start moving vocal mode sliders, or select a preset (click on it again to bring everything back into focus). As I said, it seems to be additive only, so I'm guessing it uses whatever you selected as a base, and can then add extra stuff. It just can't take it away. Still trying to figure it out though.


----------



## richiebee

Volume problems were engineer based (my bad settings of the combination of channel compressor and master bus limiter), not SynthV issues. Still having trouble trying to get saves to sound like saves. It's a bit better, but still not quite right. 

View attachment wonderwall-1min-demo-v11.mp3


----------



## Blancanegra

richiebee said:


> Volume problems were engineer based (my bad settings of the combination of channel compressor and master bus limiter), not SynthV issues. Still having trouble trying to get saves to sound like saves. It's a bit better, but still not quite right.
> 
> View attachment wonderwall-1min-demo-v11.mp3


It is also possible to adjust the output volume of each group in Voice Panel/Parameters/Loudness, which is very convenient when there is a lot of dynamic contrast in the voice, as in this case.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> From what I've read doubles are almost always panned, and harmonies frequently are, while the lead vocal is almost always in the center. Waves Center and some other plugins claim to be able to isolate the center---will they remove panned doubles and harmonies? Has anyone found these plugins useful with PRAAT and if so which ones are most useful? Someone recommended A1Audio A1StereoControl as a free alternative to Center....


Just ran some simple tests. Center reduces the volume of the sides more than A1Stereocontrol "Mute sides" or Bitwig mid/side but they're still very audible. (5 instances of Center worked better than 1 or 3, but 10 didn't work as well as 5.) Not sure how this might translate into PRAAT, but it doesn't seem promising. Here's how Hataori wrote he does it:

"reverb and backing vocals are usually spread in stereo, so what I do everytime to get rid of it is extracting only the center part of the stereo signal.

I do it by converting the signal to mono/side representation (L+R/L-R) and spectrally subtracting side part from mono part M-S - only magnitude spectra, setting the phase to zero.

I have my own Windows program to do it, but it is a piece of (work), I cannot publish it, it only reads in some specific wav formats. I cannot direct you somewhere how to do it, but I know surely that this spectral subtraction is part of the Vocal remover.

Maybe someone can suggest how to do it mutliplatform way."





__





Synthesizer V - Vocaloid haters might want to check this


Hello, Hataori from HPsynthV YT channel here. I made the video above - Kassai. I have just registered here only to reply to this thread. I am very honored to be linked from this forum. Really. I had a quick look at your tutorial videos - very impressive! :cool: This isn't directly related, but...




vi-control.net


----------



## Hataori

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> I have my own Windows program to do it, but it is a piece of (work), I cannot publish it, it only reads in some specific wav formats.


Hello,
if someone is really interested I can make the program more usable and publish it on Github. It is a simple Windows command line exe - stereo wav in, mono out.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Hataori said:


> Hello,
> if someone is really interested I can make the program more usable and publish it on Github. It is a simple Windows command line exe - stereo wav in, mono out.


That would be fantastic. I'm definitely interested.


----------



## Hataori

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> That would be fantastic. I'm definitely interested.


Don't expect too much - the output quality is quite bad, it takes out a lot of signal.


----------



## Hataori

So here it is https://github.com/hataori-p/utils

Two Windows cmd line programs for extracting middle and sides of a vocal stem, when main vocal is in the center and harmonies and backing vocals are panned to sides.

Use fmid.exe to extract the middle from stereo.

Use fsub for subtracting two synced signals spectraly. Eg subtract the middle mono from all vocals stereo and you'll receive sides stereo.
Or you can subtract the middle from the original music and you'll get off-vocal with backing vocals.

I hope it works, otherwise let me know what it writes.


----------



## raidergale

Another Weina test since I'm back from holiday, I actually might finish this.
Adele's "Easy On Me", using Hataori's RealVoice script for the base tuning.

View attachment EasyOnMe.mp3


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Hataori said:


> So here it is https://github.com/hataori-p/utils
> 
> Two Windows cmd line programs for extracting middle and sides of a vocal stem, when main vocal is in the center and harmonies and backing vocals are panned to sides.
> 
> Use fmid.exe to extract the middle from stereo.
> 
> Use fsub for subtracting two synced signals spectraly. Eg subtract the middle mono from all vocals stereo and you'll receive sides stereo.
> Or you can subtract the middle from the original music and you'll get off-vocal with backing vocals.
> 
> I hope it works, otherwise let me know what it writes.


It seems to be working, thanks!


----------



## ScarletJerry

Has anyone tried using a vocal harmonizer with Synth V? I see that Waves rebased one this month, but I know that there are others out there.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## raidergale

I've finished my Easy On Me cover with Weina.
I really, really like Weina's low notes, but I couldn't find a way to get powerful high notes without them sounding tinny :(
This uses Hataori's RealVoice script as a starting point for pitch tuning.


----------



## Pier-V

raidergale said:


> I really, really like Weina's low notes


I am very impressed by the lower register in this cover as well. It's a different interpretation compared to the original, but it's musical in its own way. Also, it's amazing how differently Weina and Solaria sing the same passages. The two voicebanks have their own strenghts and weaknesses, and from what I've heard so far from Weina, to me it seems Weina has a greater dynamic range and a bigger set of timbral variations, while Solaria is slightly better at handling variations in pitch.


----------



## madfloyd

How were you able to use just ONE note for the 'feel' phrase where it's actually many notes? Usually I have to an insane number of split notes to accomplish this.


----------



## David Cuny

madfloyd said:


> How were you able to use just ONE note for the 'feel' phrase where it's actually many notes? Usually I have to an insane number of split notes to accomplish this.


You can draw the Pitch Automation directly to the Piano Roll:






You can access it by clicking the Pencil icon in the Piano Roll toolbar:


----------



## parapentep70

raidergale said:


> I've finished my Easy On Me cover with Weina.
> I really, really like Weina's low notes, but I couldn't find a way to get powerful high notes without them sounding tinny :(
> This uses Hataori's RealVoice script as a starting point for pitch tuning.
> .....


Thanks for posting. It has been a good hint for me to notice the way you draw long "notes" (syllables or rectangles in the piano roll) that correspond to multiple musical legato notes... with total control on pitch expressivity (it does not matter to me if it is copied from the original song, it is "doable").

Definitely it is easier for me than writing for many (or most, or perhaps all) string libraries! I always thought that spectral morphing and channel modelling would come earlier for winds and brass, then strings and finally voice. It is true that a lot more people invested longer hours in speech synthesis than in musical instrument physical modelling.


----------



## parapentep70

madfloyd said:


> How were you able to use just ONE note for the 'feel' phrase where it's actually many notes? Usually I have to an insane number of split notes to accomplish this.


Ah, you noticed too. I had problems before with splitting notes... and having to correct phonetics because of the splits. It is so much easier this way!


----------



## AceAudioHQ

ScarletJerry said:


> Has anyone tried using a vocal harmonizer with Synth V? I see that Waves rebased one this month, but I know that there are others out there.


I've tried the antares duo and antares choir (but not the actual antares harmony engine) but didn't like the results so I just decided to double and harmonize manually by duplicating tracks a few times and running different takes for them and it works well like so:

View attachment touchtank_a02.mp3


----------



## madfloyd

Thanks for the explanation about the pitch automation. I'll have to try this - looks like a big time saver!


----------



## richiebee

ScarletJerry said:


> Has anyone tried using a vocal harmonizer with Synth V? I see that Waves rebased one this month, but I know that there are others out there.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


I haven't, but creating harmonies is so easy in SynthesizerV that I don't think I'd bother with a harmonizer. You might save a bit of time, but I think you'd get more "unique" voices singing, if you just use copied voice tracks and change the pitch manually. Creating new takes gives each harmony its own voice that makes for a very natural sounding result.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

richiebee said:


> I haven't, but creating harmonies is so easy in SynthesizerV that I don't think I'd bother with a harmonizer. You might save a bit of time, but I think you'd get more "unique" voices singing, if you just use copied voice tracks and change the pitch manually. Creating new takes gives each harmony its own voice that makes for a very natural sounding result.


Unless you want the harmony parts to "sound like (old-fashioned conceptions of) 'robot voices'". (Incidentally, I was watching a relatively recent tv show devoted to autotune and harmonizers, and the presenter (multi-Grammy award winner Mark Ronson) was going on about how hard auto-tune makes "robot voices" and how much he likes that because it's "futuristic"---with the proliferation of actual "robot voices" and home assistants that don't sound anything like that, hopefully the general public will understand the difference. At most it's a retro-futurist misconception of what future technology we have now would be like... falsely assuming that realistic human voice generation by AI would either be impossible or take much longer than it has.)


----------



## David Cuny

richiebee said:


> I haven't, but creating harmonies is so easy in SynthesizerV that I don't think I'd bother with a harmonizer.


Plus, being able to render the voices out to distinct files means more control in the DAW.

And being able to render the vocal in voiced/unvoiced files means a bit more control over how the voice hits the effects such as reverb.

For example, since the unvoiced portion tends to hold most of the aspiration and plosives, you can use more reverb on the background vocals without having to worry as much about transients hitting the reverb as hard.

You can do that with the primary vocal as well, sending the unvoiced portion to a different set of effects so you don't lose the clarity on the consonants.


----------



## madfloyd

David Cuny said:


> Plus, being able to render the voices out to distinct files means more control in the DAW.
> 
> And being able to render the vocal in voiced/unvoiced files means a bit more control over how the voice hits the effects such as reverb.
> 
> For example, since the unvoiced portion tends to hold most of the aspiration and plosives , you can use more reverb on the background vocals without having to worry as much about transients hitting the reverb as hard.
> 
> You can do that with the primary vocal as well, sending the unvoiced portion to a different set of effects so you don't lose the clarity on the consonants.


David, would you mind explaining what you mean by unvoiced vs voiced?


----------



## David Cuny

madfloyd said:


> David, would you mind explaining what you mean by unvoiced vs voiced?


*Voiced:* Harmonic/pitched, produced using the vocal cords, such as vowels.
*Unvoiced: *Noise/unpitched: */ch, f, hh, k, p, s, sh t/, *breath.

Most unvoiced English phonemes have voiced equivalents, with the exception is */hh/*. They are:


UnvoicedVoicedchjhfvhh_n/a_kgpbszshzhtd

These voiced versions are often referred to as "mixed" voicing, since they consist of a mixture of sounds from the vocal cords (voiced) as well as fricative/plosive sounds produced by restricting or stopping the passage of air.

In case you wondered why the Arpabet uses */jh/* instead of */j/*, it's to show that it's the voiced version of */ch/*. The */hh/* is used instead of */h/* to avoid confusion between */sh/* and */s hh/*.

_SynthesizerV_ gives you the option of splitting out the voiced and unvoiced (aspirated) sounds of the vocal in the *Render* panel:






Splitting the voiced and unvoiced (or "aspirated", as _SynthesizerV _calls it) is really useful, since the unvoiced portion is often where issues like, such as the */s/* sound. It's a lot easier to fix this sort of problem when it's been rendered to a different track.


----------



## madfloyd

Thank you for taking the time to explain that. Fascinating. I had not seen that option. I had been manually splitting bgnd vocals into different tracks so I have to try that.


----------



## soulofsound

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Unless you want the harmony parts to "sound like (old-fashioned conceptions of) 'robot voices'". (Incidentally, I was watching a relatively recent tv show devoted to autotune and harmonizers, and the presenter (multi-Grammy award winner Mark Ronson) was going on about how hard auto-tune makes "robot voices" and how much he likes that because it's "futuristic"---with the proliferation of actual "robot voices" and home assistants that don't sound anything like that, hopefully the general public will understand the difference. At most it's a retro-futurist misconception of what future technology we have now would be like... falsely assuming that realistic human voice generation by AI would either be impossible or take much longer than it has.)


Futurist visions are always ridiculous. Mainly what happens is the new technology makes life easier, but not much else changes.


----------



## NYC Composer

Extreme autotuning sure sounds robotic to me. Of course, I’m well over one hundred years old. 

Back in the day we did a lotta takes and stitched them together. It was still artificial but it didn’t sound quantized.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

NYC Composer said:


> Extreme autotuning sure sounds robotic to me. Of course, I’m well over one hundred years old.
> 
> Back in the day we did a lotta takes and stitched them together. It was still artificial but it didn’t sound quantized.


Like ancient robots... though voices of steam or grinding gears might be more interesting. (Of course the most ancient robots were almost certainly outside our solar system....)

In that same episode Ronson played Lady Gaga's isolated vocal from the song Shallow (which he co-wrote) and said something like "no plugin can do that." With the way Synth V has been progressing I think he's wrong. (And along with effects plugins it opens up more interesting near-future cyborg potentialities... that are more expressive, not less.)


----------



## giwro

David Cuny said:


> *Voiced:* Harmonic/pitched, produced using the vocal cords, such as vowels.
> *Unvoiced: *Noise/unpitched: */ch, f, hh, k, p, s, sh t/, *breath.
> 
> Most unvoiced English phonemes have voiced equivalents, with the exception is */hh/*. They are:
> 
> 
> UnvoicedVoicedchjhfvhh_n/a_kgpbszshzhtd
> 
> These voiced versions are often referred to as "mixed" voicing, since they consist of a mixture of sounds from the vocal cords (voiced) as well as fricative/plosive sounds produced by restricting or stopping the passage of air.
> 
> In case you wondered why the Arpabet uses */jh/* instead of */j/*, it's to show that it's the voiced version of */ch/*. The */hh/* is used instead of */h/* to avoid confusion between */sh/* and */s hh/*.
> 
> _SynthesizerV_ gives you the option of splitting out the voiced and unvoiced (aspirated) sounds of the vocal in the *Render* panel:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Splitting the voiced and unvoiced (or "aspirated", as _SynthesizerV _calls it) is really useful, since the unvoiced portion is often where issues like, such as the */s/* sound. It's a lot easier to fix this sort of problem when it's been rendered to a different track.


And I’d say the splitting out of those is an amazing feature - I’ve actually used the unvoiced Synthesizer V stuff mixed with Hollywood choirs to make their diction better…!


----------



## baggage

I decided to mess around with *raidergale's SVP* of 'Easy on Me' with Solaria, with some phoneme edits, Abuse of the Tension Automation track, some pitch correction using Newtone, and Nectar assistant + SmartEQ 3. I like the edit myself, but of course it's all subjective.

At the expense of legibility, you can sometimes just put in phonemes that don't make sense and it all works out in the long run. I learned this when working with the Vocaloid 3 English Version of Hatsune Miku

View attachment Easy on Me Raidergale SOLARIA edit baggage.mp3


----------



## madfloyd

baggage said:


> I decided to mess around with *raidergale's SVP* of 'Easy on Me' with Solaria, with some phoneme edits, Abuse of the Tension Automation track, some pitch correction using Newtone, and Nectar assistant + SmartEQ 3. I like the edit myself, but of course it's all subjective.
> 
> At the expense of legibility, you can sometimes just put in phonemes that don't make sense and it all works out in the long run. I learned this when working with the Vocaloid 3 English Version of Hatsune Miku
> 
> View attachment Easy on Me Raidergale SOLARIA edit baggage.mp3


Can you share the project file for that?


----------



## baggage

madfloyd said:


> Can you share the project file for that?


only with raidergale's consent, but it's really not all that different, just some phoneme edits and I messed with the tension, not on the side but underneath where it's an automation parameter


----------



## madfloyd

baggage said:


> only with raidergale's consent, but it's really not all that different, just some phoneme edits and I messed with the tension, not on the side but underneath where it's an automation parameter


Totally understand your hesitation; that's fine. It's the underneath automation I'm interested in learning more about (call me intimidated lol)>


----------



## raidergale

baggage said:


> only with raidergale's consent, but it's really not all that different, just some phoneme edits and I messed with the tension, not on the side but underneath where it's an automation parameter


Feel free to share it here, don't worry!


----------



## Pier-V

Recently I'm focusing more on brainstorming ideas and creating textures rather than fully developed pieces, with a particular attention to possible uses of SynthV outside of songs. This is a short experiment where I used two instances of Solaria singing a made up language in a somewhat "tribal" fashion (with the default english phoneme set), where the phoneme concatenation was choosen specifically with phrasing in mind to achieve agile melodies flowing as naturally as possible.

In addition to SynthV there are a fretless bass, a vibraphone and some percussions (udu, bongo, tambourine and shakers) - it's all made with Vsts. While I'm waiting for Dreamtonics to release a bass voice I'm using fretless bass as a placeholder due to the peculiar singing qualities of the instrument, and I have to say, the more I listen to this combination the more I think it has potential...



Solarias and Bass only:

View attachment Tribal Voices from Elsewhere - Solaria and Bass only.mp3


_Edit: Appearently the second link with voice and bass only broke for some reason. I reaplced it with an mp3 attachment._


----------



## baggage

Here's the SVP, I didn't edit the whole thing, just the 2nd verse as heard in the earlier post


----------



## Hataori

Hello, I did some tutorial how to use those my center/side separating programs



Download and info here:








GitHub - hataori-p/utils: Utilities for vocal separation


Utilities for vocal separation. Contribute to hataori-p/utils development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com


----------



## soulofsound

Question regarding best practice: i split "wait-ting" over two notes. I got it to sound right more or less but the "t" in the middle is a little soft. I can separate the notes and get a nice sharp t, but that is then a little too much.
Anyone has a tip on how they would enter the lyrics in this case to give the "t" a little more emphasis?

That said, the software is remarkable in its ease of use, i think.


----------



## David Cuny

soulofsound said:


> Question regarding best practice: i split "wait-ting" over two notes. I got it to sound right more or less but the "t" in the middle is a little soft. I can separate the notes and get a nice sharp t, but that is then a little too much.
> Anyone has a tip on how they would enter the lyrics in this case to give the "t" a little more emphasis?


In the *Note Properties* panel, there's an option to adjust the *Duration* and *Strength* of each phoneme:






You can also adjust the *Breathiness* in the *Parameters*.


----------



## Pier-V

@soulofsound I don't know exactly when alternate phonemes were fixed, but now that they work again I highly recommend checking them out as well. 90% of the time I manage to solve pronunciation issues with that alone.
An additional way to get an alternate pronunciation for a phoneme is to put a "cl" before the phoneme you want to change (you can also put an apostrophe in the lyrics before a word to get the same effect). This adds a very characteristic sound before a vowel, but sometimes it also works on consonants, although the effect varies from consonant to consonant so it's one of those things it's easier to experiment with in first person.


----------



## soulofsound

Thanks guys! Much appreciated.


----------



## jvsax

Has anybody come up with settings (or presets) for the latest full versions of Synth V, Kevin, and Solaria that make them sound more like the way they did in version 1.01? I’d rather use the newest versions but the sound is very different, as people have said in earlier posts.


----------



## Blancanegra

jvsax said:


> Has anybody come up with settings (or presets) for the latest full versions of Synth V, Kevin, and Solaria that make them sound more like the way they did in version 1.01? I’d rather use the newest versions but the sound is very different, as people have said in earlier posts.


Follow this steps:


Notice that the response of the parameters has also changed, so if you are using and old svp file and have edited any parameter it probably needs corrections.


----------



## Blancanegra

xsubs said:


> I've been following this thread for a while, and am close to a purchase I think...
> Has anyone used Solaria in the Celtic genre? It's quite a nice voice, but I'm not sure if all the inflections required by Celtic music are attainable in SynthV.
> 
> Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


What do you mean by the inflections required to sing Celtic music? can you give a particular example?


----------



## Phillip Dixon

Having trouble finding tutorials for Vsynth.. Will my work save with daw song (using Vsynth as plugin) cheers


----------



## jvsax

Blancanegra said:


> Follow this steps:
> 
> 
> Notice that the response of the parameters has also changed, so if you are using and old svp file and have edited any parameter it probably needs corrections.



Thanks very much!


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

xsubs said:


> In addition to the vocal inflections, which are highly ornamental, to sing in Gaelic (either Scots or Irish) requires consonant combinations that are quite different from other languages. Here's a few examples... male and female:
> 
> 
> Half Scot Gaelic/half English
> 
> Half Irish/half English
> 
> 
> Thanks for your reply!



By inflections you mean the pitch information, right (microtonality, bends, slides, etc.)? Synthesizer V can do the pitch information. I think Feng Yi's Chinese opera vocal mode might be good for sean-nós....


----------



## Blancanegra

xsubs said:


> In addition to the vocal inflections, which are highly ornamental, to sing in Gaelic (either Scots or Irish) requires consonant combinations that are quite different from other languages. Here's a few examples... male and female:
> 
> 
> Half Scot Gaelic/half English
> 
> Half Irish/half English
> 
> 
> Thanks for your reply!



Well, that's a different thing, you're requesting different languagues.... the question is, how many differences in phonemes are in Gaelic respect to English.

In any case, try for free the Synthesizer Editor with the lite version of the English voices Solaria and Eleanor Forte to see if it is possible for them to sing in those languages.


----------



## dsy

Phillip Dixon said:


> Having trouble finding tutorials for Vsynth.. Will my work save with daw song (using Vsynth as plugin) cheers


Yes (tested with REAPER only) but notes aren't saved on the DAW's track. All notes are handled in the plugin.

Some tutorials:


----------



## Phillip Dixon

Thanks


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Blancanegra said:


> Because is possible to do a melisma extending any syllabe along many notes as you want, and that's in your side!
> 
> Use - in notes to extend the previous syllabe.
> Use + in notes to sing the next syllabe.


With a space before "+" and after "-", assuming I'm doing it right....


----------



## Blancanegra

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> With a space before "+" and after "-", assuming I'm doing it right....


Type + and - in the notes as lyrics.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Blancanegra said:


> Type + and - in the notes as lyrics.


Yeah, sorry, I should have studied the SVP examples before asking....


----------



## mothershout

I’ve been trying to figure out a good workflow (any suggestions welcomed). When I use the AU plugin in Logic, I can’t seem to get any transport synchronization between Logic and SynthV. Is there a way to have the host control the transport?

Also; thanks to all the contributors in this (long!) thread - it helped me understand a *huge *amount about SynthV before I took the plunge and paid my money. Invaluable stuff.


----------



## stigbn

mothershout said:


> I’ve been trying to figure out a good workflow (any suggestions welcomed). When I use the AU plugin in Logic, I can’t seem to get any transport synchronization between Logic and SynthV. Is there a way to have the host control the transport?
> 
> Also; thanks to all the contributors in this (long!) thread - it helped me understand a *huge *amount about SynthV before I took the plunge and paid my money. Invaluable stuff.


I normally don't have synchronization problems in Studio One - But if if I change the tempo in studio one, I have to change the tempo in Synth V too! (just above the tracks there's a tempo marker in synth V - it should be the same as in your daw)
Also when importing midi tracks (which I do a lot - composing the melody with a keyboard - exporting the midi and then importing in synth v) remember to use 'import as tracks' - or else you might have to reset the tempo again in synth v.


----------



## mothershout

stigbn said:


> I normally don't have synchronization problems in Studio One - But if if I change the tempo in studio one, I have to change the tempo in Synth V too! (just above the tracks there's a tempo marker in synth V - it should be the same as in your daw)
> Also when importing midi tracks (which I do a lot - composing the melody with a keyboard - exporting the midi and then importing in synth v) remember to use 'import as tracks' - or else you might have to reset the tempo again in synth v.


Ah, the tempo thing got me a couple of times. I note that if I match the host tempo in SynthV, it only pulls in the first tempo. I’ve had to add any other tempo changes manually.

I think I’ve figured out playback synchronization a bit more; if you move the playhead in Logic, it doesn’t change the SynthV playhead position *until you start Logic playing*. At that point SynthV will start to track Logic’s playhead.

Thanks for the hint about importing MIDI as tracks; I’ve decided that the best workflow is to create a Logic MIDI track for an entire vocal line first, and then import that whole track into SynthV, using it as one track.


----------



## mothershout

Another question; if I’m reading correctly, some people are taking pitch and/or timing information from isolated vocal tracks, and using those to drive SynthV. Has anyone tried using pitch/timing from, say, a guitar track? I’m thinking of blues vocals, where the blue notes sit between a minor and a major third. Drawing manual pitch curves for these works, but it’d be easier (for a guitarist like me) to play the vocal line and have the pitch adjustments copied over to a SynthV voice.

Would any of @Hataori scripts work for that? I see them on github, but I’m not clear what output format is generated by Praat.


----------



## Hataori

mothershout said:


> Would any of @Hataori scripts work for that? I see them on github, but I’m not clear what output format is generated by Praat.


Praat has a good pitch detection algorithm, I would give it a try. You need some strong harmonics - use some effect. Then you can try quantizePitch script to load it to SynthV.

Let me know if it works or send me some guitar test track and I will try it.


----------



## richiebee

I've more or less finished/abandoned my first original song with Solaria. To say I'm absolutely floored by this tech would be an understatement. I've written two vocal songs in the last two weeks, and that's as many as I've written in the rest of my life. As someone who doesn't sing myself, I find it incredibly hard to write vocal charts and hear how they might be sung by a real singer. In the past, I've written charts, and had them sung by real singers, and no question, that's better, but it took me way longer to get them to the same point I'm at with this one. Anyway, lyrics by Chris Smith, everything else by me. 

View attachment happyvibes0827.mp3


And by way of a process, I asked on a songwriting forum if someone could come up with words for this instrumental track. 

View attachment happyvibes0731.mp3


Chris said he'd have a go, and his lyrics were a lot darker than I was expecting, but rather than ask for a re-write, I attempted to match the music to the lyrics... I'm not so great with the heavy guitar parts, so they're pretty basic. :D

The other one I'm finishing up is a really stripped back balled - just voice and piano at the moment, and for the most part, Solaria has been doing a phenomenal job. I'm just stuck on the ending, and once I get that figured out, I'll post as another example of SynthV.

I'm surprised its not getting more press as a songwriting tool. Almost everything on YouTube is a cover, with the backing ripped off the original, and Solaria being used more or less as a pitch tracker. Although I guess its linked to the history of Vocaloid in general, its a real underutilization of the technology. I'd love to see way more originals up there.


----------



## David Cuny

richiebee said:


> I'm surprised its not getting more press as a songwriting tool.


The general consensus here seems to be that it's much more time and cost efficient to go straight to a singer.

And if you can do that, great. It's like saying that it's better to bring in a session guitarist to nail the solo on a song instead of using a VSTi.

The answer is: yes, of course. 

But for those of use without access to a singer 24/7, _SynthesizerV_ gives you the opportunity to experiment with vocals in a way that you can't get without a singer at all hours of the day and night.


----------



## soulofsound

I couldn't agree more. As a creative tool Synth V is brilliant.


----------



## richiebee

David Cuny said:


> The general consensus here seems to be that it's much time and cost efficient to go straight to a singer.


yeah, I think it depends on the level of competency all around - you as a songwriter, the singer as a, well, a singer. I have some experience of writing for singers, and I've found it hard to get my songs sounding the way they do in my head. No question, this is down to my ability and experience (or lack thereof) as a songwriter, and somewhat, the experience (or otherwise) of the singers that I've used. I'm pretty sure the songs I've done with real singers have taken more work than this did, when you factor in the writing, the recording and the post production. Yes, the result is better, and for a commercial product, no question, necessary but for a hobbiest, this does okay.


----------



## dsy

The usage of autotune in some styles of music (urban, r&b, rap) is now very common.
Maybe Synthesizer V (glitched sounds) could be used in released songs because the listeners have become accustomed with autotune sound?

Do you have a example of Synthesizer V usage for english rap? I'm not sure it is possible now.


----------



## richiebee

dsy said:


> The usage of autotune in some styles of music (urban, r&b, rap) is now very common.
> Maybe Synthesizer V (glitched sounds) could be used in released songs because the listeners have become accustomed with autotune sound?
> 
> Do you have a example of Synthesizer V usage for english rap? I'm not sure it is possible now.


Synth V AI voices do not have an "autotune" sound. They sound incredibly natural. I don't think they're well suited to non-musically pitched vocalization, such as rap.


----------



## richiebee

richiebee said:


> Synth V AI voices do not have an "autotune" sound. They sound incredibly natural. I don't think they're well suited to non-musically pitched vocalization, such as rap.


Actually, you kind of can do it. Quality isn't as good, but if I use Solaria way below her normal range, and change some other parameters, you can get a sort of robotic male voice speaking.


----------



## auralsculpture

David Cuny said:


> As far as I know, there's no such thing.
> 
> As you're aware (but others may not), the old version of the manual can be found online here: https://synthesizerv.com/manual/
> 
> The online video tutorial is here:
> 
> I found some information on "extra" phonemes included with Solaria in an undocumented script that was included with the voicebank. Of course, if you didn't have the Pro version and didn't think to load the script, you'd never know about them.
> 
> *Special Phonemes*
> 
> *sil* _(Silence)_ - a phoneme you can insert into notes for a pause. Any amount of space between notes is also considered a *sil*.
> *cl* _(Stop/Glottal Stop)_ - a phoneme you can insert to have the vocal perform a stop, *cl* can be used to accurately input words like *uh-oh* or used for singing effect. In some AI voice libraries, a *cl* between or before vowels will sometimes cause the library to perform a vocal fry, this is context dependent, but can provide a unique effect.
> *-* _(Melisma)_ The *-* sign can be placed in the lyrics section of a note to extend the previous syllable over the next note, carrying the sound into the current note. If many consecutive notes have *-* in them, they will continue to carry the syllable over multiple notes
> *+* _(Syllable)_ A *+* sign can be inserted in the lyrics section of a note to split the word in the previous note into multiple syllables, carrying the next syllable into the current note. If many consecutive notes have *+* in them, they will continue to pass on the syllables.
> There are two ways to specify phonemes. One option is to edit the displayed phonemes above the note. The other is to enter the phonemes directly into the note instead of an English word, by starting with a period and then the phonemes, such as *.k ae t*
> 
> The second method is safer, because if you change the word after you've modified the phonemes, the phonemes won't automatically adjust unless you manually delete them. So putting the phonemes directly into the word makes it easier to edit later.
> 
> *What Is Voicing and Aspiration?*
> English vocal sounds can be thought of as having two components: _harmonic_ and _inhamonic_ elements. Harmonic sounds (for example, *iy*) generally made by glottal pulses moving through the oral cavities shaped by the tongue. The tongue creates resonating chambers, and these resonances are what distinguish various vowels.
> 
> For example, for a typical male, the *ih* vowel will have resonances at around 400Hz, 2000Hz, and 2550Hz. These resonances are independent of the underlying pitch, so the vowel sounds the same no matter what note it's being sung on.
> 
> The pitch of the resonances is directly proportional to the length of the oral cavity, so men's formants are pitched lower than women's, and children's are pitched higher than women's.
> 
> Nasals like *m*, *n* and *ng* are formed by using the oral cavity _and_ the nasal cavity.
> 
> Inharmonic sounds are generally made by constricting the path of air so that a fricative sound is made, like *f* or *sh*.
> 
> English has semi-voiced sounds that correspond to the completely unvoiced sounds. For example, the voiced version of *ch* is *j*, and the voiced version of *sh* is *zh*.
> 
> Aspiration is the sound of breath moving through the oral cavity and acquiring the resonances, but not actually having a particular pitch. Think "whispering".
> 
> The main thing to keep in mind is that _SynthV_ has the ability to alter the _harmonic_ and _inharmonic_ attributes of the voice independent of each other.
> 
> *Parameters
> 
> Pitch Deviation: *How much the pitch strays from the note's center pitch, measured in cents. This is the easiest parameter - it's the "wobble" of the pitch. This is the parameter that the AI "auto-tuning" sets.
> 
> *Vibrato Envelope: *how much the vibrato Depth (a function of the Note) is scaled. This can be used to make the built-in vibrato less robotic and more realistic.
> 
> *Loudness: *Vocal amplitude, corresponds to Voice Loudness. My experience is that this just makes the whole voice louder, but unfortunately _doesn't_ increase the feeling of more or less vocal effort.
> 
> *Tension: *How bright the voice is. More tension will be louder, less tension will be softer.
> 
> Unnecessary details: I don't think it's documented, but this is a function of the glottal pulse. A glottal pulse has three phases: opening, closing, and closed. The "pulse" of the glottal pulse happens during the opening and closing phases. The longer a glottal pulse is closed, the less wide the pulse is, and the more intense the voice will sound.
> 
> *Breathiness: *How much added breathiness/aspiration is in vocal. This is the air "leaking" at the glossis that's not contributing to the glottal pulse. You can also set the global *Breathiness* in the *Voice* parameter.
> 
> *Voicing: *Turning this down makes the voice more of a whisper. This is like *Loudness*, but only effects the harmonic portion of the voice.
> 
> *Gender: *Shifts the relative position of the formants up or down, generally corresponds to gender. Probably the most important parameter in making a _SynthV _voice sound different than the default.
> 
> *Tone Shift: *AI parameter only. Lets you alter the timbre of a note as if it were being sung as a higher or lower pitched note, but only change the timbre, not the pitch. Akin to pitch shifting a sampled neighbor note.



I bought Solaria direct from the Dreamtronics store an date download link does not include these scripts. I note the english-arpanet folder in the application support "dicts" directory is also empty. I dont know if it should be ... SynthV 1.7


----------



## David Cuny

auralsculpture said:


> I bought Solaria direct from the Dreamtronics store an date download link does not include these scripts. I note the english-arpanet folder in the application support "dicts" directory is also empty. I dont know if it should be ... SynthV 1.7


You could reach out to the folk at Eclipsed Sounds via *c[email protected]* and ask them about it.


----------



## mothershout

David Cuny said:


> The general consensus here seems to be that it's much more time and cost efficient to go straight to a singer.


I’m not sure one can say that it’s more *cost efficient* without knowing more context. A professional has a budget to spend either on time in tuning SynthV or a singer. A hobbyist probably has limited budget but their time has zero cost.

Also, I think you need a very definite idea of how you want the vocals to sound to work with a singer. I’m personally finding SynthV very, very useful in tweaking lyrics, timing and harmonies as I develop a piece. That’d be prohibitively expensive with a hired singer, but Solaria just sings what I ask her to


----------



## Pier-V

I was wondering something. I'd like to write for voice quartet using SynthV (SATB style, but not necessairily renaissance/classical etc.), but of course at the moment some compromises would be necessary still. As I said already in a previous post, the most obvious problem would be the lack of a bass voicebank, and Kevin seems to be the only viable option so far even though his voice is mainly in the tenor range. 

However, recently I stumbled upon a cover that left me with a potential idea. I don't remember if it was linked in this thread already so I'll put the video here as a reference:


.
The performance in the video uses a previous version of the voicebank but that's beyond the point - what really matters of course are the timbre and the singing style. Kevin here is barely recognizable. Now, I don't own this voicebank yet but I suspect the main factor for this transformation was an aggressive use of the gender function.
Anyway, this made me suddenly realize something: if I'm not mistaken, in many of the covers posted both here and on Youtube I've heard Kevin singing nearly exclusively in his high range. That's why I would be really grateful if someone posted a small excerpt where Kevin sings something in the very low range, but with the caveat of trying to use the gender function or whatever it takes to approximate the voice timbre in the reference. Any style, text or melody is fine, even slow sustained notes. Imo it's worth a shot.

Ideally, this other reference below is what I hope to see covered from Dreamtonics one day (the bass and tenor are Avi Kaplan and Peter Hollens respectively). I'm perfectly aware such a product would appeal a completely different audience and, realistically speaking, I don't expect the company to release a bass voicebank in the next future, but that doesn't change the fact it would be amazing.


----------



## philthevoid

Pier-V said:


> I was wondering something. I'd like to write for voice quartet using SynthV (SATB style, but not necessairily renaissance/classical etc.), but of course at the moment some compromises would be necessary still. As I said already in a previous post, the most obvious problem would be the lack of a bass voicebank, and Kevin seems to be the only viable option so far even though his voice is mainly in the tenor range.
> 
> However, recently I stumbled upon a cover that left me with a potential idea. I don't remember if it was linked in this thread already so I'll put the video here as a reference:
> 
> 
> .
> The performance in the video uses a previous version of the voicebank but that's beyond the point - what really matters of course are the timbre and the singing style. Kevin here is barely recognizable. Now, I don't own this voicebank yet but I suspect the main factor for this transformation was an aggressive use of the gender function.
> Anyway, this made me suddenly realize something: if I'm not mistaken, in many of the covers posted both here and on Youtube I've heard Kevin singing nearly exclusively in his high range. That's why I would be really grateful if someone posted a small excerpt where Kevin sings something in the very low range, but with the caveat of trying to use the gender function or whatever it takes to approximate the voice timbre in the reference. Any style, text or melody is fine, even slow sustained notes. Imo it's worth a shot.
> 
> Ideally, this other reference below is what I hope to see covered from Dreamtonics one day (the bass and tenor are Avi Kaplan and Peter Hollens respectively). I'm perfectly aware such a product would appeal a completely different audience and, realistically speaking, I don't expect the company to release a bass voicebank in the next future, but that doesn't change the fact it would be amazing.



So there are two things I would say from your example.
1- The Sunset Boulevard song doesn't go very low. Lowest note I believe is a C3 which I am able to do extremely easily and I am by no means a bass.
2- I am pretty sure all that is going on in this project, like you said, is a bit of playing on the Gender and Tone Shift settings. I am sure they achieved this relatively easily. Then maybe they also used some EQ. And they quite possibly used a script to match the *performance* of the original singer (not in tone but in pitch variation/vibrato).

Here is the lowest part of the song I did in a minute by just writing the notes/lyrics and adjusting the 2 settings mentioned above. It doesn't sound great but you can already tell if you put in a little bit of work you can achieve this type of sound easily.
View attachment kev-reg.mp3

Then I used the same line, transposed it an octave below (which is in the lower bass range, though it might be a bit exaggerated with the last 2-3 notes...) and adjusted the Gender and Tone Shift again very quickly and this is what it sounded like.
View attachment kev-low.mp3

That's not to say you couldn't achieve a better sound (again, this took me less than 10 minutes including rendering, converting to mp3 and writing this post...) but it seems to me that Kevin is not meant to sing in the bass range too much, at least not when exposed, like he would be in an SATB context.

You can tell that most demos you hear online, people are leaving settings pretty much at default. But when you find a good project like the one you linked, it tells you there IS a good range of sound you can achieve if you get creative.


----------



## philthevoid

Oh! And just to show you all the possibilities, here's a little something I did with Kevin.
Yes.
Kevin! 

It sounds nothing like him. But that's because I did everything listed in my previous post:
-Script to copy original singer's performance (pitch-related only)
-Gender and Tone Shift settings hugely modified
-Big EQ adjustments to get even closer to the original

All the instruments are also made by me with VSTs only (so only MIDI, no audio track).

_(For context, the original is a song from a video game sung by a *robot*. The singer is an actual woman but her voice was modified a bit to sound like a human-robot hybrid sorta, hence why my version also sounds a bit robotic.)

_


----------



## Pier-V

Thanks for the examples! Unfortunately it seems like the second melody transposed by one octave is too noisy and lacks too much resonance to be used under normal circumstances, but the good news is that the first one seem to have potential, especially after applying some additional processing during the mixing stage. And yes, you're right, despite the deep sounding voice Sunset Boulevard doesn't actually go that low, but it may still be enough for a bassline.



philthevoid said:


> Oh! And just to show you all the possibilities, here's a little something I did with Kevin.


I can't resist a Still Alive cover, I simply can't. Very original idea to use gender the opposite way, and great job overall!
I found extremely hilarious that I listened to a computer program designed to be as realistic as possible trying to imitate a robot that was actually voiced by a real human being. We've come full circle.


----------



## raidergale

After a lot of backlash over the 1.7 update (some older voicebanks performed a lot worse after the HDVM update), Dreamtonics is now offering beta versions to test features and provide feedback before release.



The 1.7.1 beta update lets you install multiple versions of the same voicebank and freely switch between them in the track, so if you don't like the sound of the HDVM updated voicebank you can temporarily switch to an older version.


----------



## ScarletJerry

This is a great feature. Thank you!

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Pier-V

A while back I said I was writing a song with Solaria. This is still a wip, but the first part is roughly complete in terms of melody and lyrics. It's also the first time I compose something that requires lyrics, and before discovering SynthV I would have never even considered that to be a possibility. We can discuss about its potential and its limitations, but one thing is for sure: this little piece of software got me interested in things I didn't know I needed, and that on itself is an impressive accomplishment.
Enjoy!


----------



## richiebee

Pier-V said:


> A while back I said I was writing a song with Solaria. This is still a wip, but the first part is roughly complete in terms of melody and lyrics. It's also the first time I compose something that requires lyrics, and before discovering SynthV I would have never even considered that to be a possibility. We can discuss about its potential and its limitations, but one thing is for sure: this little piece of software got me interested in things I didn't know I needed, and that on itself is an impressive accomplishment.
> Enjoy!



Very nice. My experience with writing vocal songs is also limited. I was lucky enough to work at a music school years ago, and had access to singers. I no longer do. Even when I did, I found the process of writing a song, having the confidence to give it to a singer, recording it, and doing all the post work, quite daunting. Solaria makes it really easy, and even without spending hours on custom tuning, does a great job of adding a real personality to a vocal track. As I work more with it, I'm also finding it has quite a wide range of sounds, to give a more, or less poppy feel, and a more or less mature voice. From what I've read, it seems as though currently Solaria is the best out of the box of these new gen singers, and the others, while really good, seem to require a bit of work. I will invest in Kevin (no offence to all the Kevin's out there, but who came up with that name?) at some point, but I'm really hoping for a male equivalent of Solaria, that requires the same kind of work to get great results. Even Solaria isn't perfect, and has some trouble with some pronunciations that can seem to be impossible to overcome, but regardless, the combo of SynthV and Solaria, I think is really groundbreaking, and I'm surprised there isn't more buzz about it.


----------



## mothershout

Pier-V said:


> A while back I said I was writing a song with Solaria. This is still a wip, but the first part is roughly complete in terms of melody and lyrics. It's also the first time I compose something that requires lyrics, and before discovering SynthV I would have never even considered that to be a possibility. We can discuss about its potential and its limitations, but one thing is for sure: this little piece of software got me interested in things I didn't know I needed, and that on itself is an impressive accomplishment.
> Enjoy!


I like that! And I'm having the same experience; with Solaria (I also splurged a bit and got Weina) I can now finish up songs that have been uncompleted for a long time (because I can't personally sing them, and as a hobbyist I don't have a budget to hire a singer). This has opened up a whole new area of composition for me, at surprisingly little cost (especially compared to, say, a new Spitfire Audio virtual instrument).


----------



## David Cuny

richiebee said:


> ... but I'm really hoping for a male equivalent of Solaria, that requires the same kind of work to get great results.


That voice doesn't exist yet, but I'm hoping that Eclipsed Sounds - the people who produced Solaria - will release a male voice.


----------



## madfloyd

mothershout said:


> I like that! And I'm having the same experience; with Solaria (I also splurged a bit and got Weina) I can now finish up songs that have been uncompleted for a long time (because I can't personally sing them, and as a hobbyist I don't have a budget to hire a singer). This has opened up a whole new area of composition for me, at surprisingly little cost (especially compared to, say, a new Spitfire Audio virtual instrument).


Ditto for me. 

Interestingly enough though, using Kevin, I can't do some of my songs as he doesn't get very low at all. Until another voice is released I might still have to sing my own songs, yuck!


----------



## Pier-V

A couple of days ago I was lurking in the right places and I found a really nice transcription made by @Rob of a string chorale composed by Yuki Kajiura, "Her new wings". Rob, I know you asked this two years ago, and I also know that when you asked for "different libraries" renditions you were referring to other _strings_ libraries, but I simply couldn't resist: as soon as I saw the writing style I KNEW I had to try it with voices. If for wathever reason you're not ok with this just let me know and I'll imediately remove this post of course.
Now, there are a couple of problems with this rearrangment - namely, Solaria twin #1 goes way too high while Solaria twin #3 goes way too low in certain spots, but somehow I still feel the final result is musical enough to be attached here. In fact, one aspect I see rarely mentioned (if ever) is how good the default ".l aa" syllable is for general purpose, textless singing. Hope you'll find this as interesting as it was for me!

View attachment Yuki Kajiura - Her New Wings (Voice and Bass).mp3


The original track, added for reference:



This is something a bit different, I'm curious to know what you all think about this so any kind of beedback is appreciated, be it good or bad.


----------



## dsy

Pier-V said:


> View attachment Yuki Kajiura - Her New Wings (Voice and Bass).mp3
> 
> 
> This is something a bit different, I'm curious to know what you all think about this so any kind of beedback is appreciated, be it good or bad.


The voices are pretty. What do you think if you apply different parameters and timing to each voice? I think it could be more realistic but I'm not sure.

*Rap*
I found some rap attempts with SynthV:




Not so bad but far from realistic. I'm thinking if the last one could be better in lowered pitch?


----------



## Koyo

Rapping is not singing. The AI of Solaria and other voices is developed for the nuances of melody. You'll always get bad results. If there was a rapping voice AI, I'd certainly not use it to sing in a realistic way.


----------



## Trash Panda

Koyo said:


> Rapping is not singing.


Not a hard and fast rule.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Koyo said:


> Rapping is not singing. The AI of Solaria and other voices is developed for the nuances of melody. You'll always get bad results. If there was a rapping voice AI, I'd certainly not use it to sing in a realistic way.


It depends on what kind of rap you want, most things coming out of your mouth using your vocal cords has a tone, it's just hard to make by hand, but for example in this song the speech/rap parts sound ok to me. But of course the libraries weren't made rapping in mind, they probably lack some samples to model certain things


----------



## dsy

Also this video found by David Cunny :

Actually the SynthV version is close to the original song.


----------



## Hataori

dsy said:


> Actually the SynthV version is close to the original song.


Thanks! It's mine


----------



## baggage

Not much of an update, but Dreamtonics Store now supports paypal as a payment option


----------



## Raphioli

wow, so much has evolved since the last time I've read this thread.
Theres so many great examples. I especially like how Weina sounds.

Might need to add SynthV to my blackfriday list this year.(if they're having any sales that is)

Edit: I wish they would sample Merethe Soltvedt.


----------



## Trash Panda

Raphioli said:


> Edit: I wish they would sample Merethe Soltvedt.


Imagine what could be done if @StefanoM did an @clarasorace voice bank.


----------



## StefanoM

Trash Panda said:


> Imagine what could be done if @StefanoM did an @clarasorace voice bank.


I am always open to any development. When it is in real time, it will become really interesting.


----------



## David Cuny

StefanoM said:


> I am always open to any development. When it is in real time, it will become really interesting.



Real time playback is possible (check out Realitone's Blue for example), but it's not as simple as just assigning phonemes pressing notes on the keyboard.

One of the problems with "real time" is that there needs to be a delay in order to get the vowel to land on the start of the beat.

When you sing, the vowel is placed on the beat. That means any consonants the precede the vowel need to be placed before the beat. For example, the word "STRING" consists of the phonemes /S T R IH NG/.

In order to sing this properly, the phonemes /S T R/ need to be played before the beat so the /IH/ can start on the beat. Those phonemes are actually shifted to the end of the prior syllable's nucleus vowel.

Also, much of the expressiveness requires information such as note duration, the interval and duration of the following note, and so on.

So you can have realtime playback, but you'll end up giving up much of what makes the synthesis compelling.


----------



## StefanoM

David Cuny said:


> Real time playback is possible (check out Realitone's Blue for example), but it's not as simple as just assigning phonemes pressing notes on the keyboard.
> 
> One of the problems with "real time" is that there needs to be a delay in order to get the vowel to land on the start of the beat.
> 
> When you sing, the vowel is placed on the beat. That means any consonants the precede the vowel need to be placed before the beat. For example, the word "STRING" consists of the phonemes /S T R IH NG/.
> 
> In order to sing this properly, the phonemes /S T R/ need to be played before the beat so the /IH/ can start on the beat. Those phonemes are actually shifted to the end of the prior syllable's nucleus vowel.
> 
> Also, much of the expressiveness requires information such as note duration, the interval and duration of the following note, and so on.
> 
> So you can have realtime playback, but you'll end up giving up much of what makes the synthesis compelling.


Mmm Blu is a sample library with a builder.

I'm talking of a real-time Synth like in this thread.

I'm developing sample library, and for this reason I'm not cosidering this Type of Synth for now.
For me there is too much off -line editing... bye bye creativity.

Because is not a Real-Time Playback, where I can play with my Keaboard the Vox.

My libraries ( and other sample libraries ) are in Real-Time, and as professional composer and sound desinger, I love to play what I have in mind during a Cue.

So we are talking of different workflow...and different needs..

It is interesting, but not for me in this moment. We Will see in the future..

I am following the growth of this interesting system, but for now If I need to sing a song with a real complex language, and not only vocalization or just some phonemes ( where the sample libraries are amazing ) I call a singer.

We see in the future.

Cheers


----------



## David Cuny

StefanoM said:


> Mmm Blu is a sample library with a builder.
> 
> I'm talking of a real-time Synth like in this thread.


The constraints of placing vowels on the beat are the same, whether you're using a synth-based approach or sample based approach. 

The same is true with needing to know the duration of the notes and intervals in order to create an expressive line. For example, compare the real-time output of Birth of the Trumpet with the "Smart Delay" output. They're worlds apart.

The need to look ahead in order to articulate the words and shape the performance is true whether you're doing synthesis, samples, or asking a vocalist to sing.

On the other hand, having just entered a song using piano roll notation... I can easily imagine a _much_ faster way of doing data entry than _SythesizerV_ currently does.


----------



## freecham

The piano roll is a bit tedious but for me it is a practical solution when working on an original song. It's very precise with the progressive zoom. I used only this method on this song (James Bond/romantic style). I used the soft mode in Solaria for a more intimate/close voice. I had some difficulties with some words like "night" and for some passages that wanted a bit in a blues/gospel style. Starting from scratch, it's quite difficult to use the control points to create variations in the way of Nina Simone or Melody Gardot for example.

View attachment Epica_214.mp3


(sorry, if there are some mistakes in the lyrics, english is not my native language !)

I also wanted to ask those who own both Solaria and Weina, if they think Weina is more suitable for this musical style.


----------



## stigbn

David Cuny said:


> The constraints of placing vowels on the beat are the same, whether you're using a synth-based approach or sample based approach.
> 
> The same is true with needing to know the duration of the notes and intervals in order to create an expressive line. For example, compare the real-time output of Birth of the Trumpet with the "Smart Delay" output. They're worlds apart.
> 
> The need to look ahead in order to articulate the words and shape the performance is true whether you're doing synthesis, samples, or asking a vocalist to sing.
> 
> On the other hand, having just entered a song using piano roll notation... I can easily imagine a _much_ faster way of doing data entry than _SythesizerV_ currently does.


So do you actually enter a whole song directly in Synth V? 
I rarely do that - I play the song with another vst sound - like a piano or maybe a flute-sound. Then I can get more free rhythm and more flowing lines. Then I export to midi and import the midi into Synth V and then choose the voice. Then you have to edit the space between the words as Synth V likes to have words and syllables touching each other, else it sounds weird and split syllables don't work
Then I have to enter the lyrics, but I do that in whole sentences (ctrl L) with use of + and - to split the words. Like changing "I'm only sleeping" into "I'm only + sleeping + -" - if the last syllable goes over two notes. 
Then, lastly you will of course have to micro-edit everything, move sylables and such.


----------



## David Cuny

stigbn said:


> So do you actually enter a whole song directly in Synth V?


Yes, that's my usual workflow.

It's not terrible, but it just seems there are things about the workflow that could make it simpler.

As you point out, I could simply import MIDI created elsewhere.


----------



## Pier-V

freecham said:


> The piano roll is a bit tedious but for me it is a practical solution when working on an original song. It's very precise with the progressive zoom. I used only this method on this song (James Bond/romantic style). I used the soft mode in Solaria for a more intimate/close voice. I had some difficulties with some words like "night" and for some passages that wanted a bit in a blues/gospel style. Starting from scratch, it's quite difficult to use the control points to create variations in the way of Nina Simone or Melody Gardot for example.
> 
> View attachment Epica_214.mp3
> 
> 
> (sorry, if there are some mistakes in the lyrics, english is not my native language !)
> 
> I also wanted to ask those who own both Solarai and Weina, if they think Weina is more suitable for this musical style.


Sorry, I don't know the original, all I can say is that this is a nice cover!
Overall this is a very good performance, in the beginning you really nailed the soft dynamics in the low register imo... maybe you can be even more aggressive with intonation in a couple of spots, Solaria should be able to handle it well.
Just to make an example, the phrase at 0:54 "where are you now" has both very clean/fast legato transitions and a progressive vibrato which flattens partially the intonation at the beginning of each note. Neither of these are a problem on its own, but if used together they may give the impression of using an excessive amount of autotuning.
You got me interested in the original song! I'd like to make a comparison with the original, what's its title?


----------



## freecham

Pier-V said:


> Sorry, I don't know the original, all I can say is that this is a nice cover!
> Overall this is a very good performance, in the beginning you really nailed the soft dynamics in the low register imo... maybe you can be even more aggressive with intonation in a couple of spots, Solaria should be able to handle it well.
> Just to make an example, the phrase at 0:54 "where are you now" has both very clean/fast legato transitions and a progressive vibrato which flattens partially the intonation at the beginning of each note. Neither of these are a problem on its own, but if used together they may give the impression of using an excessive amount of autotuning.
> You got me interested in the original song! I'd like to make a comparison with the original, what's its title?


Thanks for your advice, I think I used the ornement fonction automatically without adjustment on this part (and on some others no doubt). And I can't make you listen to the original because it's not a cover. I wrote the song.


----------



## Pier-V

freecham said:


> And I can't make you listen to the original because it's not a cover. I wrote the song.


I see I see. Updated my reaction 🤣. Great writing, and thanks for sharing it here!


----------



## ScarletJerry

Blancanegra said:


> Yesterday I tried Josh Turner "Your man" but sounds odd. Going lower than C3 with Kevin is not a good choice, maybe you need a baritone voice.
> 
> 
> There are no classical or opera voice banks at the moment, but a lot of people is interested.
> Meanwhile I tried yesterday with Les Misérables "Bring him home" with Kevin but without mimicking the style of any particular singer.
> 
> Bring him home (Les Misérables)
> View attachment Bring him home test.mp3
> 
> 
> Vibratos are edited with the vibrato options in the Note properties panel, but adjusting first the autopitch tuning improvisation to low values.


@Blancanegra I’m still in awe of the demo weeks later. Can you share the settings that you used for Kevin? In your demo, he sounds different than the default.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## raidergale

I'm back with yet another Solaria test using Hataori's RealVoice script!
And yet again with a Postmodern Jukebox rearrangement of a classic song.

View attachment BadNamePMJ_3.mp3


Mixing is super rushed and thus isn't the best, I did this at 1AM so my volume levels are all over the place, but that's not really important since I was mainly checking if Solaria could handle this song


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> I'm back with yet another Solaria test using Hataori's RealVoice script!
> And yet again with a Postmodern Jukebox rearrangement of a classic song.
> 
> View attachment BadNamePMJ_3.mp3
> 
> 
> Mixing is super rushed and thus isn't the best, I did this at 1AM so my volume levels are all over the place, but that's not really important since I was mainly checking if Solaria could handle this song


Very respectable. Some of the belting lacks a little power, but on the whole Solaria shines again. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## odod

an xiao or mo chen? please advise .. i want to make a pop rock style in english


----------



## Trash Panda

raidergale said:


> I'm back with yet another Solaria test using Hataori's RealVoice script!
> And yet again with a Postmodern Jukebox rearrangement of a classic song.
> 
> View attachment BadNamePMJ_3.mp3
> 
> 
> Mixing is super rushed and thus isn't the best, I did this at 1AM so my volume levels are all over the place, but that's not really important since I was mainly checking if Solaria could handle this song


That’s some gnarly grit. How’d you do it?


----------



## mothershout

David Cuny said:


> On the other hand, having just entered a song using piano roll notation... I can easily imagine a _much_ faster way of doing data entry than _SythesizerV_ currently does.


My workflow for this is to play the vocal line on a piano, along with the rest of the tracks (in Logic Pro). Then, when I have that vocal line timing correct, I use Logic’s “remove overlapped notes” and export just that track as a MIDI file, then import it into SynthV (which I use as a Logic plugin). That way, I can play around with the vocal line notes and timing as much as I want before turning it into a voice. Once it’s in SynthV, I deal with lyrics, grouping, tweaking parameters, etc.

I would love it if SynthV could update a track from the DAW host, or import additional MIDI to an existing track, and/or had a better way to copy and paste notes between tracks, but this workflow has been pretty effective.


----------



## David Cuny

odod said:


> an xiao or mo chen? please advise .. i want to make a pop rock style in english


Nope. They are both soft voices, so they haven't really got much power behind them. There's no "grit" or "edge" to either voice.

So they'll work for soft pop, but not rock.


----------



## David Cuny

freecham said:


> I also wanted to ask those who own both Solarai and Weina, if they think Weina is more suitable for this musical style.


Send me the file and let me know what voices you want to hear. I'll render them out for you and you can make your own decision.


----------



## stigbn

mothershout said:


> My workflow for this is to play the vocal line on a piano, along with the rest of the tracks (in Logic Pro). Then, when I have that vocal line timing correct, I use Logic’s “remove overlapped notes” and export just that track as a MIDI file, then import it into SynthV (which I use as a Logic plugin). That way, I can play around with the vocal line notes and timing as much as I want before turning it into a voice. Once it’s in SynthV, I deal with lyrics, grouping, tweaking parameters, etc.
> 
> I would love it if SynthV could update a track from the DAW host, or import additional MIDI to an existing track, and/or had a better way to copy and paste notes between tracks, but this workflow has been pretty effective.


If you don't have a function to "remove overlapped notes", then you should know that Synth V does it automatically for you! When you import a midi file, if there are overlapping notes, you will get an option to "clean up the imported project" - which will clean up any overlapping notes.


----------



## freecham

David Cuny said:


> Send me the file and let me know what voices you want to hear. I'll render them out for you and you can make your own decision.


Thank you for your help David, it is very kind ! I send you the .svp file by pm to listen the version with Weina.


----------



## odod

David Cuny said:


> Nope. They are both soft voices, so they haven't really got much power behind them. There's no "grit" or "edge" to either voice.
> 
> So they'll work for soft pop, but not rock.


Thank you, if you had to pick .. which one is it ? i am in to An Xiao btw .. what do you think?


----------



## Blancanegra

ScarletJerry said:


> @Blancanegra I’m still in awe of the demo weeks later. Can you share the settings that you used for Kevin? In your demo, he sounds different than the default.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


Aaah, seems I forgot to include the svp file, I attachted it to this post.
It only have gender to .4 so it sounds a bit exaggerated and faked.


----------



## David Cuny

odod said:


> Thank you, if you had to pick .. which one is it ? i am in to An Xiao btw .. what do you think?


I'd try adjusting parameters with Kevin before one of those, if I wanted something that was "rock". It's hard to make them something they aren't, and both An Xiao and Mo Chen are soft voices.


----------



## raidergale

Trash Panda said:


> That’s some gnarly grit. How’d you do it?


It's a mix of Hataori's RealVoice Growl plugin and an external distortion plugin when mixing in the DAW 

I've worked on it some more, here's another part of the song. This part has less general distortion (other than on "shot"), but I boosted the power by using Solaria's Power vocal mode more.

View attachment BadNamePMJTest.mp3


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> It's a mix of Hataori's RealVoice Growl plugin and an external distortion plugin when mixing in the DAW
> 
> I've worked on it some more, here's another part of the song. This part has less general distortion (other than on "shot"), but I boosted the power by using Solaria's Power vocal mode more.
> 
> View attachment BadNamePMJTest.mp3


The power belting sounds fuller to my ear. She still needs some practice but getting there.


----------



## raidergale

I actually ended up finishing the cover last night, there are some spots I wish sounded a bit better, but I'm overall happy with it.



In other news, Dreamtonics just announced two new voices, Yuma, a Japanese male voice, and Natalie, an English female one.


----------



## dsy

raidergale said:


> I actually ended up finishing the cover last night, there are some spots I wish sounded a bit better, but I'm overall happy with it.



Good track as usual 



raidergale said:


> In other news, Dreamtonics just announced two new voices, Yuma, a Japanese male voice, and Natalie, an English female one.



Nice to have new voices but I think Nathalie is similar to customized Solaria. Does it worth to buy this Nathalie voice if I own Solaria?
Actually I don't know which english voice to buy in addition to Solaria. Maybe Kevin?


----------



## Pier-V

raidergale said:


> I actually ended up finishing the cover last night, there are some spots I wish sounded a bit better, but I'm overall happy with it.


Did you use Hataori's script for growl vocals? I find it very time efficient and a great starting point to imitate that technique, but I never actually tested it inside a project because it provides something very different compared to the styles I'm interested in. But after listening to this cover I may give it a try nonetheless.

Also, you wrote in a previous post that you apply some additional distortion to further improve the effect. Whatever it is, imho you REALLY nailed this one!


----------



## Markrs

raidergale said:


> I actually ended up finishing the cover last night, there are some spots I wish sounded a bit better, but I'm overall happy with it.



As I commented on the video, this sounds crazy real, with so much emotion now in the vocals. Really great work.


----------



## raidergale

Pier-V said:


> Did you use Hataori's script for growl vocals? I find it very time efficient and a great starting point to imitate that technique, but I never actually tested it inside a project because it provides something very different compared to the styles I'm interested in. But after listening to this cover I may give it a try nonetheless.
> 
> Also, you wrote in a previous post that you apply some additional distortion to further improve the effect. Whatever it is, imho you REALLY nailed this one!


Yes, Hataori's growl script for the various "shot" throughout the song, which needed an actual full growl. The rest is done in the DAW with Voice Drive, a plugin that was included with Hatsune Miku NT, but I assume any other plugin able to distort the voice would work fine


----------



## ScarletJerry

Logic still doesn't work when I use Synth V's scripts. Is there a plan to resolve that, or is anyone using Logic with scripts for Synth V? I also have to read this thread from the beginning to learn how to use the scripts, unless someone can recommend a resources. I'm still in awe with this technology and what everyone has done with it.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## David Cuny

raidergale said:


> In other news, Dreamtonics just announced two new voices, Yuma, a Japanese male voice, and Natalie, an English female one.



_"The smell of California still inside of me"_

Worst rendition of _"California, Here I Come"_ ever.


----------



## Vlzmusic

David Cuny said:


> _"The smell of California still inside of me"_
> 
> Worst rendition of _"California, Here I Come"_ ever.


Probably is, but I liked the overal voice behavior and type. Its a nice break from the girlish voices we mostly have.


----------



## freecham

For a second voice in addition to Solaria, I would choose Weina. If you don't want a male voice but a distinct timbre of Solaria. Weina has a very nice timbre in the low register. It's a voice that has real depth. But my wallet just denied me the $140 needed !


----------



## soulofsound

The Nathalie demo doesn't impress, i think. But then the english Weina demo sounds truly awful, while users here in the forum have made wonderful sounding music with it. The least you can say is they need better demos.


----------



## richiebee

dsy said:


> Actually I don't know which english voice to buy in addition to Solaria. Maybe Kevin?


I bought Kevin yesterday. So far I'm more impressed than I thought I'd be, and he goes really well with Solaria as a backing duo. I think the weakness is going to be when I need something REALLY powerful, or really low. But within the limits of the voice, I think its a job well done. He has a personality, just like Solaria does, with a bit of variety in timbre to give a more or less mature sounding voice.


----------



## raidergale

soulofsound said:


> The Nathalie demo doesn't impress, i think. But then the english Weina demo sounds truly awful, while users here in the forum have made wonderful sounding music with it. The least you can say is they need better demos.


100% agree, I really think they need to push marketing a bit more in the West. Those almost raw, straight out of the editor demos are a good thing to get an idea of how the voice sounds straight away, but I'd like it if they also put out some more edited songs in the future.
Their Chinese demos always sounded good to me, so I hope they'll put the same effort to showcase English voices too. The lack of an official proper English demo for Weina was such a shame since she's marketed as a bilingual vocal on their website... Scarborough Fair really wasn't a good choice for her voicebank, in my opinion.


----------



## Blancanegra

richiebee said:


> I bought Kevin yesterday. So far I'm more impressed than I thought I'd be, and he goes really well with Solaria as a backing duo. I think the weakness is going to be when I need something REALLY powerful, or really low. But within the limits of the voice, I think its a job well done. He has a personality, just like Solaria does, with a bit of variety in timbre to give a more or less mature sounding voice.


I posted some demos for Kevin including the project files, in case you're interested. Notice that those files would sound different as were done with 1.6 voicebank version.


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> 100% agree, I really think they need to push marketing a bit more in the West. Those almost raw, straight out of the editor demos are a good thing to get an idea of how the voice sounds straight away, but I'd like it if they also put out some more edited songs in the future.
> Their Chinese demos always sounded good to me, so I hope they'll put the same effort to showcase English voices too. The lack of an official proper English demo for Weina was such a shame since she's marketed as a bilingual vocal on their website... Scarborough Fair really wasn't a good choice for her voicebank, in my opinion.


Yes, good that you mention that, cause the Chinese Weina demo does indeed sound very good. That we want to hear the same Weina as in Chinese, is something they somehow do not seem to understand.


----------



## ToxicRecordings

Watching this thread like a hawk hoping to see a announcement of a rock vocal bank.


----------



## richiebee

I'm looking forward to a gruff singer with a cockney accent. Joking, but it did cross my mind when I was listening to Stretch last night.


----------



## doctoremmet

richiebee said:


> I'm looking forward to a gruff singer with a cockney accent. Joking, but it did cross my mind when I was listening to Stretch last night.


V-Synth Ian Dury edition. Bring it on.


----------



## richiebee

Blancanegra said:


> I posted some demos for Kevin including the project files, in case you're interested. Notice that those files would sound different as were done with 1.6 voicebank version.


tbh, I'm having no trouble with Kevin, even straight swaps with projects created with Solaria. Gonna need a bit of tweaking, but I was expecting to have to do a lot more. I'm not even sure I even have much of a need for a lower range than Kevin is capable of.


----------



## richiebee

doctoremmet said:


> V-Synth Ian Dury edition. Bring it on.


Yup, that also went through my head when I was thinking the whole cockney thing. One of my faves -


----------



## raidergale

I've been trying to salvage an old test I made with Weina, I'm not sure if this song really fits her voice or if I struggle to mix Weina properly. It's probably a bit of both, there's something that bothers me in this but I can't quite pinpoint what.

It's a Postmodern Jukebox cover of Pixies' Where Is My Mind, again using Hataori's script as a base

View attachment WhereIsMyMindPMJ.mp3


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> I've been trying to salvage an old test I made with Weina, I'm not sure if this song really fits her voice or if I struggle to mix Weina properly. It's probably a bit of both, there's something that bothers me in this but I can't quite pinpoint what.
> 
> It's a Postmodern Jukebox cover of Pixies' Where Is My Mind, again using Hataori's script as a base
> 
> View attachment WhereIsMyMindPMJ.mp3


My guess is some compression to alleviate the high dynamic range would solve what you experience as problematic. It needn't be very aggressive, just enough to lift the quieter parts. 
Other than that the voice sounds great on it, i think.


----------



## Daren Audio

raidergale said:


> I'm back with yet another Solaria test using Hataori's RealVoice script!
> And yet again with a Postmodern Jukebox rearrangement of a classic song.
> 
> View attachment BadNamePMJ_3.mp3
> 
> 
> Mixing is super rushed and thus isn't the best, I did this at 1AM so my volume levels are all over the place, but that's not really important since I was mainly checking if Solaria could handle this song


Impressive.


----------



## mothershout

A quick question for Logic Pro users, who have SynthV as an AU instrument. I notice that I have the option to choose _Master Aspiration Isolated_ as an _Audio_ setting (i.e. the aspiration is output separately). I wanted to do some experiments with reverbing the non-aspirated sound, but I can see no way to get Logic to break out the second aspiration channel. There's no apparent different between _Master Combined_ audio and _Master Aspiration Isolated_.

Anyone been able to figure out a way to get separate aspiration audio (on a separate channel strip)?

I know the standalone version of SynthV Studio will render to two separate WAV files, but I really value the ability to tweak vocals quickly within Logic, so I prefer the AU instrument.


----------



## Koyo

stigbn said:


> So do you actually enter a whole song directly in Synth V?
> I rarely do that - I play the song with another vst sound - like a piano or maybe a flute-sound. Then I can get more free rhythm and more flowing lines. Then I export to midi and import the midi into Synth V and then choose the voice. Then you have to edit the space between the words as Synth V likes to have words and syllables touching each other, else it sounds weird and split syllables don't work
> Then I have to enter the lyrics, but I do that in whole sentences (ctrl L) with use of + and - to split the words. Like changing "I'm only sleeping" into "I'm only + sleeping + -" - if the last syllable goes over two notes.
> Then, lastly you will of course have to micro-edit everything, move sylables and such.


I too compose everything inside my DAW. I also enter the lyrics in the notation view. Much simpler and faster for me.


----------



## elucid

I’ve recently started using Synth V and I’ve been doing it all in the DAW (Logic).

It generally works really well but there are two annoyances.

- now and again I have to select the vocal track to force Logic to load the plug-in. No idea why this happens. Mac Studio with 32GB RAM.

- I’m still working on the structure of the song. When I add a section I have to move the vocals along the timeline inside the plug-in. Am I missing something here? Is there some ‘relative’ setting..?


----------



## stigbn

elucid said:


> - I’m still working on the structure of the song. When I add a section I have to move the vocals along the timeline inside the plug-in. Am I missing something here? Is there some ‘relative’ setting..?


It's a bit complicated to move large sections in synth v. The easiest is probably to select the notes and 'merge into group' - then you you can move or copy the group in the arrangement window (inside synth v), then after moving it you must 'disband group' to be able to edit the notes again.


----------



## ip20

Markrs said:


> As I commented on the video, this sounds crazy real, with so much emotion now in the vocals. Really great work.


Agree. Amazing work raidergale.


----------



## soulofsound

elucid said:


> I’ve recently started using Synth V and I’ve been doing it all in the DAW (Logic).
> 
> It generally works really well but there are two annoyances.
> 
> - now and again I have to select the vocal track to force Logic to load the plug-in. No idea why this happens. Mac Studio with 32GB RAM.
> 
> - I’m still working on the structure of the song. When I add a section I have to move the vocals along the timeline inside the plug-in. Am I missing something here? Is there some ‘relative’ setting..?


I have the same problems in Logic and haven't yet found a solution.


----------



## mothershout

Well, here's my offering. An original song, done with Solaria (lead and main backing vocals) plus a chorus of many Weinas in the Big Voice section near the end.

The Sky Beneath My Feet

(Hmmm… not sure why that link shows up as a URL…)

I learned a *lot* making this. Solaria is very versatile, Weina less so. Groups are invaluable for adjusting voice parameters between phrases. Tension and Breathiness have a huge effect on articulation. The SynthV UI is not great for adjusting note positions or pitches. Overall, this is definitely game-changing.

Also, because this is VI-Control: the piano is Pianoteq, the bass is Logic Pro's studio bass and the strings are Spitfire Audio's BBC Symphony Orchestra Core (violins x 2, viola, cellos and basses later on). Guitars are real, because guitars should always be real.


----------



## mothershout

soulofsound said:


> I have the same problems in Logic and haven't yet found a solution.


I've also found that just clicking on the Logic track causes the SynthV plugin to load, but you do have to explicitly click on each SynthV track. This just bit me again when I managed to make a lovely 24-bit master without any vocals. Good job I listen back to things!

I didn't find any solution to moving notes in SynthV (I also wanted to insert an additional 8 bars). I could have rendered to audio and split the track up in Logic, but I value the ability to tweak lyrics and articulations, and rendering loses that. I ended up figuring out the terrible copy-and-paste system and moving sets of notes that way, but the start positions of the groups don't move, so I ended up with lots of empty space at the beginning of groups.


----------



## J. H. Smith

mothershout said:


> Guitars are real, because guitars should always be real.


Not many months ago, conventional widom was, 'voices should always be real'.

Well, you have disproved that with a vengeance. It's a wonderful song – lyrics, composition, voice tuning and arrangement. To my ears, the singers sound completely convincing – on the right side of the uncanny valley, as it were. Bravo!

Again to my ears, I think that Solaria's verb sound a little 'basement storeroom'. But, _de gustibus_…


----------



## soulofsound

mothershout said:


> I've also found that just clicking on the Logic track causes the SynthV plugin to load, but you do have to explicitly click on each SynthV track. This just bit me again when I managed to make a lovely 24-bit master without any vocals. Good job I listen back to things!
> 
> I didn't find any solution to moving notes in SynthV (I also wanted to insert an additional 8 bars). I could have rendered to audio and split the track up in Logic, but I value the ability to tweak lyrics and articulations, and rendering loses that. I ended up figuring out the terrible copy-and-paste system and moving sets of notes that way, but the start positions of the groups don't move, so I ended up with lots of empty space at the beginning of groups.


Yes same here. Good thing the technology sounds so good, so the minor inconveniences are just that in comparison.

Great songwriting you did there.


----------



## dsy

_Synthesizer V Studio 1.7.1 is available (no more beta)._

*New Features*

Voice Database: support for keeping multiple versions of a voice database; add a version selector to Voice panel.

*Enhancements*

Misc: launch the voice installer in an existing instance of Synthesizer V Studio (if found).


*Behavior changes*

Voice Panel: use the database’s default language when language detection fails and when the track/group’s language hasn’t been set.

Misc: A telemetry function for software improvement has been added. In the initial startup and configuration panel, users can enable or disable this function.









Synthesizer V Studio 1.7.1 Final Update | Dreamtonics株式会社


Dreamtonics releases the final update for Synthesizer V Studio 1.7.1. The main change from 1.7.0 involves a version selector under Voice panel that allows switching between multiple installed versions




dreamtonics.com


----------



## richiebee

Got a new pop/rock song featuring Kev with Kev2 and Solaria doing the backing vocals. A guy called Chris Smith sent me a rough demo (so they're his words, and basically his music) and I created this arrangement. Kev still sounds a little square (my fault), but I'm happy with the song and think the outro hook (2:09 to the end) is a bit of an ear worm. I'm not going to share the original on the forum, but if anyone wants to hear it, PM me, and I'll send it. Audio quality and musicianship wasn't exactly stellar on it, but someone might be interested in hearing the transformation. So this is Time to Get Up.

[Edit: Noticed that there was a bit of a conflict in the clav part trying to be major against the song's minor... now fixed]

View attachment timetogetup-ai-vocal-0930-with acoustic-gtr-FIXED.mp3


----------



## richiebee

mothershout said:


> Well, here's my offering. An original song, done with Solaria (lead and main backing vocals) plus a chorus of many Weinas in the Big Voice section near the end.
> 
> The Sky Beneath My Feet


Is there a way to listen without a Spotify account?


----------



## doctoremmet

richiebee said:


> Is there a way to listen without a Spotify account?


There’s Google?


----------



## richiebee

doctoremmet said:


> There’s Google?



Thanks... I'd say something, something, too many hoops, something. But this is definitely worth a listen. Beautiful job @mothershout . Thanks for the YT link @doctoremmet


----------



## mothershout

mothershout said:


> A quick question for Logic Pro users, who have SynthV as an AU instrument. I notice that I have the option to choose _Master Aspiration Isolated_ as an _Audio_ setting (i.e. the aspiration is output separately). I wanted to do some experiments with reverbing the non-aspirated sound, but I can see no way to get Logic to break out the second aspiration channel. There's no apparent different between _Master Combined_ audio and _Master Aspiration Isolated_.
> 
> Anyone been able to figure out a way to get separate aspiration audio (on a separate channel strip)?
> 
> I know the standalone version of SynthV Studio will render to two separate WAV files, but I really value the ability to tweak vocals quickly within Logic, so I prefer the AU instrument.


Replying to myself...

I figured this out. I set up the project a little too fast, and had added all the SynthV software instruments as plain stereo - they must be set to Multi-Output. This can be done at the time the track's created. You can also change it on an existing track by selecting the track, clicking on the software instrument and choosing the Multi-Output version in the popup. A test (using SynthV 1.7.1) shows that this change does *not* remove any data saved in the SynthV plugin 

Within SynthV, in the *Settings*, under *Audio*, you change the *Channel* *Layout* to _Master Aspiration Isolated._ Then you can open the Logic Mixer, and click the + on the SynthV track's channel strip to add a second aux strip. The initial track will have the non-aspirated audio (whatever that should be called!) The new aux strip will now have the aspiration audio on it. I tested this with Solaria's Soft voice and breathiness set to maximum; you can clearly hear the differences when soloing the tracks.

This allows some really nice tricks, like putting a De-esser on the aspiration track only, and reverbing (or chorusing) the non-aspirated track (@David Cuny - what *is* the right name for that audio?)

Hope this helps someone out!


----------



## mothershout

richiebee said:


> Thanks... I'd say something, something, too many hoops, something. But this is definitely worth a listen. Beautiful job @mothershout . Thanks for the YT link @doctoremmet


Thanks @doctoremmet and @richiebee 🙂 I should remember to post YT links in the future. At least it wasn't an Apple Music link...


----------



## mothershout

richiebee said:


> Got a new pop/rock song featuring Kev with Kev2 and Solaria doing the backing vocals. A guy called Chris Smith sent me a rough demo (so they're his words, and basically his music) and I created this arrangement. Kev still sounds a little square (my fault), but I'm happy with the song and think the outro hook (2:09 to the end) is a bit of an ear worm. I'm not going to share the original on the forum, but if anyone wants to hear it, PM me, and I'll send it. Audio quality and musicianship wasn't exactly stellar on it, but someone might be interested in hearing the transformation. So this is Time to Get Up.
> 
> View attachment 86004


Interesting track  Is it me, or does Kevin sound *very* like Phil Oakey from The Human League?


----------



## RogiervG

time for the males to roll in and take part of the abilities the women already have.
(there are way too few male voices)


----------



## David Cuny

mothershout said:


> This allows some really nice tricks, like putting a De-esser on the aspiration track only, and reverbing (or chorusing) the non-aspirated track (@David Cuny - what *is* the right name for that audio?)


The term "aspiration" generally refers to "breath", but of course the technical term is a bit more specific.

A phonetician is going to look at things like the manner of placement, whereas an audio engineer is going to a look at how the signal can be encoded. So the terms don't always align.

I _think_ the most common terms are "voiced" and "unvoiced" to distinguish between whether the source is the vocal cords or not. Most of the "unvoiced" consonants are caused by constriction, but there are exceptions to that, such as the */h/*, which takes on the formants of the following vowel.

But there are also "mixed-voice" sounds, such as */jh*/, */g/*, */zh/* which add some voicing to their unvoiced equivalents */ch/*, */k/* and */sh/*.

In theory, "voiced" sounds from the vocal cords would be limited to frequencies that are integer multiples of the fundamental frequency, and anything other than that (the "residual") would be "unvoiced". That would include both the contribution things such as noisy breath moving through the mouth, adding a "whisper" sound to the voice.

But as far as _SynthesizerV_ lets the user know, audio is split into "voiced" and "aspiration". Also in theory, you should never get harmonic sounds from the "aspiration" track in _SynthesizerV_. Unfortunately, that's not always the case as bugs seem to creep in to various voices.


The much more important bit is what you brought up. Because you can split the voiced and unvoiced portions, you can apply different processing to them. That means things keeping the clarity of the unvoiced consonants while soaking the voiced portion in a deep reverb.


----------



## richiebee

mothershout said:


> Interesting track  Is it me, or does Kevin sound *very* like Phil Oakey from The Human League?


The Human League was the sound of my childhood, so yeah, of course (seriously: not intentionally, but yes, I hear it).


----------



## raidergale

I've finished an old cover I started ages ago, once again it's Solaria covering a Postmodern Jukebox arrangement. The base file is quite old, so there might be errors here and there, but I felt like releasing it instead of having it collect dust on my computer.
As usual, this uses Hataori's script as a base for the pitch line


----------



## J. H. Smith

A basic question about the Hataori script:
Is it dependent on a sung recording (and so mainly suitable for covers)?
Or could it be used with, say, a sax solo, to transfer the interpretation to a voice in VS?


----------



## Hataori

J. H. Smith said:


> could it be used with, say, a sax solo, to transfer the interpretation to a voice


Primary it is for vocals. It should work for instruments too if Praat is able to determine a pitch.
It would be interesting how the sax solo would translate to a vocal - there is a lack of human intonation and consonants.


----------



## baggage




----------



## raidergale

Wow, Natalie's really obsessed with California and summer 
I'm not sold on Natalie's voice to be honest, it sounds good but it covers a niche that's already covered by other voices.
Yuma's voice is definitely interesting, I wonder how he sounds using English cross language synthesis. Then again, I'm not sure it's a voicetype that would work for a lot of English songs.


----------



## Markrs




----------



## Markrs

To be honest neither of the 2 new voices sound as good as Solaria, that one knocked it out of the park and the other since have just not been as good.


----------



## raidergale

It looks like Dreamtonics contacted some more people to make English demonstrations for Natalie. Definitely a better approach than before, so I think they are improving on that front.

bilibili.com/video/BV11D4y1y7ZT/
bilibili.com/video/BV1aW4y1n7cd/


----------



## gedlig

My only experience is a quick dable on Basic with the lite voice versions, but yeah, Solaria is by far the best one for english (followed by one of the first party ones I can't remember the name of, but for a completely different sound). These Natalie demos don't make it very appealing (the upper one of the bilibili links sounds best). Also there's the particular exaggerated american accent I'm not personally a fan of, but that's a personal thing. Would be cool if they did a british sounding voice.


----------



## richiebee

I like Natalie's voice actually. I think its a nice bit more mellow than Solaria. Could be possibly covered by Weina (which I don't have), but the price is better. . Solaria can do mellow, but this one seems more natively that way. Bet she could do a good Karen Carpenter.

No real use for Yumi. I think Kevin, in spite of the name, is really excellent for anything young(ish). I would like to hear something different in the male voices - a more mature voice maybe or possibly a more aggressive/less classically trained sounding one. Still early days with Kevin for me and I have had some success, but even when made more masculine, still sounds like a young person and definitely a little too reserved, by default, but it definitely has personality.


----------



## raidergale

Yeah, hearing some real Natalie usage and I'm turning around on her, it's a really good voice. I can definitely hear the Weina comparisons (it looks like Natalie may have a really good low register like Weina).


----------



## gedlig

Also a thing I don't remember if was covered in this thread. Are these voice packs capable of full on metal growls, screams, high pitched shrieks, etc.? I'm guessing not


----------



## doctoremmet

You guessed right


----------



## gedlig

Sadge


----------



## Tim_Wells

doctoremmet said:


> There’s Google?



@mothershout - that's a fantastic song and production! Not just the V-Synth part, but all of it.


----------



## David Cuny

I'd really like another native English male voice, and Yuma doesn't really seem to fill a need in my palette.

I bought Natalie, but didn't get much time to experiment with the voice. I swapped it out on a project that had previously used Solaria, and it didn't have the same sort of appeal. At this point, I'm not sure she was different enough from the other female voices to make the purchase worthwhile.


----------



## richiebee

David Cuny said:


> I bought Natalie, but didn't get much time to experiment with the voice. I swapped it out on a project that had previously used Solaria, and it didn't have the same sort of appeal. At this point, I'm not sure she was different enough from the other female voices to make the purchase worthwhile.


This is obviously the easiest way to start with a new voice set, but I think to some extent, it misses the point of the different sets, which is playing to their individual personalities. Swapping out the voice set without doing anything else doesn't really do that. It CAN work, and it CAN give you great results. But its not the same as starting from scratch with that voice.


----------



## David Cuny

richiebee said:


> This is obviously the easiest way to start with a new voice set, but I think to some extent, it misses the point of the different sets, which is playing to their individual personalities.


100%.


----------



## Markrs

raidergale said:


> Yeah, hearing some real Natalie usage and I'm turning around on her, it's a really good voice. I can definitely hear the Weina comparisons (it looks like Natalie may have a really good low register like Weina).



This is definitely better than the other demos for Natalie, this one works really well


----------



## ongaku

What's the consensus on Natalie vs Weina vs Stardust/Xingchen? I already have Solaria and I'm looking for a duet part, but none of the male voices sound very good to me. I'm looking for a slightly darker sound to complement Solaria.


----------



## David Cuny

ongaku said:


> What's the consensus on Natalie vs Weina vs Stardust/Xingchen? I already have Solaria and I'm looking for a duet part, but none of the male voices sound very good to me. I'm looking for a slightly darker sound to complement Solaria.


Both Weina and Natalie are much stronger in the lower register than Solaria. So they'll work well as a low counterpoint to Solaria. I don't have Stardust, so I can't comment about her voice.

Natalie is a native English voice, so it'll sound better in English, despite the cross-lingual feature in Weina.

*richiebee* mentioned that Natalie has a Karen Carpenter sort of voice.

Here's a rough version of a song I started working on. I had been using Solaria on the song, but used Natalie instead and brought the melody down an octave. I think Natalie sounds great in that register:

View attachment Falling.mp3


----------



## richiebee

ongaku said:


> What's the consensus on Natalie vs Weina vs Stardust/Xingchen? I already have Solaria and I'm looking for a duet part, but none of the male voices sound very good to me. I'm looking for a slightly darker sound to complement Solaria.


I did a track with Kevin and Solaria on backing vocals and I think they go well together. I don't have Natalie, but I like the sound of the demos and do intend to buy that set. As David mentioned, I think she has a bit of a Karen Carpenter quality about her. I don't know how well she and Solaria would go together. They're very different. Have you tried two instances of Solaria with different settings? The variety you can get from Solaria is definitely enough to make it sound like two different people singing (rather than one singing two parts).

Here is my post with my song in it - https://vi-control.net/community/th...-might-want-to-check-this.115973/post-5190875. The backing vocals are pretty low, but if you head to the outro which starts at 2:09 and goes to the end, you should hear the three voices (Kevin lead, Kevin/Solaria bv) together.


----------



## The Gost

....*WE ARE THE ROBOTS....*


----------



## richiebee

ongaku said:


> What's the consensus on Natalie vs Weina vs Stardust/Xingchen? I already have Solaria and I'm looking for a duet part, but none of the male voices sound very good to me. I'm looking for a slightly darker sound to complement Solaria.


Here's a thing that I put together very hastily in the last fifteen minutes. It was fun. :D

Solaria in the middle, Solaria with a deeper voice (gender set to 0.225) on the left, and Kevin on the right. They each take a solo part in this eight bars of garbage.

View attachment three-voices.mp3


I have no idea what style of music you're writing, and that might help determine what the right voice is for it, but here's something that demonstrates some of the variety with Solaria and how Kevin mixes with it.


----------



## Chungus

Natalie has a "bold" vocal set, and Weina a "powerful". Anyone have any examples on how these compare to one-another?


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

David Cuny said:


> Both Weina and Natalie are much stronger in the lower register than Solaria. So they'll work well as a low counterpoint to Solaria. I don't have Stardust, so I can't comment about her voice.
> 
> Natalie is a native English voice, so it'll sound better in English, despite the cross-lingual feature in Weina.
> 
> *richiebee* mentioned that Natalie has a Karen Carpenter sort of voice.
> 
> Here's a rough version of a song I started working on. I had been using Solaria on the song, but used Natalie instead and brought the melody down an octave. I think Natalie sounds great in that register:
> 
> View attachment Falling.mp3


The timbre is really nice on the first "lost" and "wonderland", though the "nd" gets lost a little. Relative to Weina, it sounds like (for my tastes at least) I'd still have to go in and tweak phoneme strength/length/alt phonemes and do re-takes on timbre. But I do love that timbre (on those two words, at least...).


----------



## David Cuny

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> The timbre is really nice on the first "lost" and "wonderland", though the "nd" gets lost a little. Relative to Weina, it sounds like (for my tastes at least) I'd still have to go in and tweak phoneme strength/length/alt phonemes and do re-takes on timbre. But I do love that timbre (on those two words, at least...).


It doesn't get lost "a little" - it's not there _at all_. 

There's a _bit_ of a release at the end, but it's just a release breath, not an articulated consonant.

There are a lot of places where Natalie drops the final */t/*, */tx/*, */d/*, or */dx/* following vowels. For example, she can articulate the */t/* in _"cat"_, but not _"hat"_. So it depends on the context.

I found the simplest solution - not in the demo - is to add a _very_ short */d ah/* and set both phonemes to the lowest strength. I still had to tweak the volume in the DAW to get it to sound natural.

View attachment Falling - final _d_ sounds.mp3


I also changed the pronunciation of _"dream"_ from */dr iy m/* to */jh r iy m/*, which cleared up the articulation a bit.

I should note that the vocals on the demo are "out of the box", without any tweaking.


----------



## David Cuny

Chungus said:


> Natalie has a "bold" vocal set, and Weina a "powerful". Anyone have any examples on how these compare to one-another?


Out of the box:
View attachment natalie and weina_MixDown.mp3


Weina gets a _lot_ louder than Natalie in the upper register:


----------



## Chungus

David Cuny said:


> Out of the box:
> View attachment natalie and weina_MixDown.mp3
> 
> 
> Weina gets a _lot_ louder than Natalie in the upper register:


Perfect. That's everything I wanted to know. Thanks a bunch. :D


----------



## raidergale

I had someone with Natalie render this for me, as a quick test. I had to embrace the love Natalie has for California, going by her official demo, and cover a song with California in it.
I think her lows are wonderful. Since I have no access to the voicebank itself and made this base with Solaria some pronunciations might be off, but I didn't want to constantly ask someone to re-render the file.

View attachment CaliforniaKingBed.mp3


----------



## Chungus

raidergale said:


> I had someone with Natalie render this for me, as a quick test. I had to embrace the love Natalie has for California, going by her official demo, and cover a song with California in it.
> I think her lows are wonderful. Since I have no access to the voicebank itself and made this base with Solaria some pronunciations might be off, but I didn't want to constantly ask someone to re-render the file.
> 
> View attachment CaliforniaKingBed.mp3


That sounds really good, though! Was this done with a script, or is it out of the box?


----------



## mothershout

raidergale said:


> Wow, Natalie's really obsessed with California and summer


Ah, the Katy Perry cover market. An often overlooked niche... 



David Cuny said:


> Both Weina and Natalie are much stronger in the lower register than Solaria. So they'll work well as a low counterpoint to Solaria.


That's a definite plus for me; I was thinking of buying Natalie specifically to use as a harmony voice for Solaria. I find multiple Solaria's difficult to use for close harmonies because they're (obviously) very close matches in timbre and I'm not after a barbershop exact-harmony sound. Weina's not a bad backup, but I think the lower register of Natalie might be better.


----------



## Blancanegra

raidergale said:


> I had someone with Natalie render this for me, as a quick test. I had to embrace the love Natalie has for California, going by her official demo, and cover a song with California in it.
> I think her lows are wonderful. Since I have no access to the voicebank itself and made this base with Solaria some pronunciations might be off, but I didn't want to constantly ask someone to re-render the file.
> 
> View attachment CaliforniaKingBed.mp3


I think this demo shows the Natalie potential, I was a bit hesitant about her but this demo convinced me, thanks!


----------



## richiebee

raidergale said:


> I had someone with Natalie render this for me, as a quick test. I had to embrace the love Natalie has for California, going by her official demo, and cover a song with California in it.
> I think her lows are wonderful. Since I have no access to the voicebank itself and made this base with Solaria some pronunciations might be off, but I didn't want to constantly ask someone to re-render the file.
> 
> View attachment CaliforniaKingBed.mp3


Love this.


----------



## soulofsound

David Cuny said:


> It doesn't get lost "a little" - it's not there _at all_.
> 
> There's a _bit_ of a release at the end, but it's just a release breath, not an articulated consonant.
> 
> There are a lot of places where Natalie drops the final */t/*, */tx/*, */d/*, or */dx/* following vowels. For example, she can articulate the */t/* in _"cat"_, but not _"hat"_. So it depends on the context.
> 
> I found the simplest solution - not in the demo - is to add a _very_ short */d ah/* and set both phonemes to the lowest strength. I still had to tweak the volume in the DAW to get it to sound natural.
> 
> View attachment Falling - final _d_ sounds.mp3
> 
> 
> I also changed the pronunciation of _"dream"_ from */dr iy m/* to */jh r iy m/*, which cleared up the articulation a bit.
> 
> I should note that the vocals on the demo are "out of the box", without any tweaking.


Does anyone know if this could be fixed in a future update? The voice is great, but like this the words sound a bit odd. Thank you for the solutions.


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> I had someone with Natalie render this for me, as a quick test. I had to embrace the love Natalie has for California, going by her official demo, and cover a song with California in it.
> I think her lows are wonderful. Since I have no access to the voicebank itself and made this base with Solaria some pronunciations might be off, but I didn't want to constantly ask someone to re-render the file.
> 
> View attachment CaliforniaKingBed.mp3


Awesome.


----------



## raidergale

Chungus said:


> That sounds really good, though! Was this done with a script, or is it out of the box?


Sorry for the late reply, the pitch curve was copied from the original with Praat and Hataori's script, but it's nothing that can't be done in-editor by hand, it's actually a fairly simple pitch curve compared to other songs I've covered. I think this uses a mix of her Bold, Steady and Soulful modes, but I don't really know in what proportions since I don't have the voice and had it rendered for me by another person.


----------



## baggage

Crazy News, Yamaha Released Vocaloid 6 completely out of nowhere. Dunno how it will compare, it's AI based but it's still vocaloid


----------



## Markrs

baggage said:


> Crazy News, Yamaha Released Vocaloid 6 completely out of nowhere. Dunno how it will compare, it's AI based but it's still vocaloid


Below is the trailer video for Vocaloid 6 and from the sound of it, it is a long way behind Synth V


----------



## David Cuny

I just had a look at the Vocaloid editor walkthrough. It didn't look like much different from the prior versions.

On their voicebank page, they only have one AI voicebank (AI Megpoid). Here's a link to the official video:



The only native English voice is the Megpoid voice, and that's an old voicebank.

If I was hearing something compelling from _Vocaloid6_, I'd be willing to lay money down. But I've yet to hear anything that would tempt me away from _SynthV_.

On the plus side, there's a working demo that can be downloaded, which is an improvement.

*Edit:* Apparently the demo only works if you've not used Vocaloid on your machine before.


----------



## Chungus

baggage said:


> Crazy News, Yamaha Released Vocaloid 6 completely out of nowhere. Dunno how it will compare, it's AI based but it's still vocaloid


And they're asking $135 to upgrade. That's a hard nope if ever there was one. lmao


----------



## baggage

David Cuny said:


> I just had a look at the Vocaloid editor walkthrough. It didn't look like much different from the prior versions.
> 
> On their voicebank page, they only have one AI voicebank (AI Megpoid). Here's a link to the official video:
> 
> 
> 
> The only native English voice is the Megpoid voice, and that's an old voicebank.
> 
> If I was hearing something compelling from _Vocaloid6_, I'd be willing to lay money down. But I've yet to hear anything that would tempt me away from _SynthV_.
> 
> On the plus side, there's a working demo that can be downloaded, which is an improvement.



It appears all the AI Voices are bilingual English and Japanese.

There is a demo that can be downloaded, but at least for me, despite it clearly saying I have till next month, it tells me I don't have any time left on the trial and to purchase a license or not use it.


----------



## stigbn

I can see from discussion on other sites (vocaverse) that the demo is ok even for users of vocaloid, it just need to start after '3 PM' october 13 - something about it thinks it's already run out of time.


----------



## raidergale

Vocaloid 6 already comes with 4 AI voices, that's why they're not on the store. Allen and Sarah (native English) and Haruka and Akito (native Japanese).
Their AI tech is... well, it's better than their old concatenative synthesis one, but I've been really spoiled by SynthV and I don't think V6 holds up. Which makes me a bit sad Gumi is on V6 and not SynthV, she was one of my favourite Vocaloid voices and I would've loved to have her on SynthV, but oh well.

One cool thing I've seen from the demo videos is that cross language synthesis can be applied on a per-note basis, without the need of a whole new track or group. It also seems to produce less accented results than SynthV when going from English -> Japanese, but it sounds worse with Japanese -> English?


----------



## richiebee

I bought Natalie a few days ago. I struggled with her to be honest. That vibrato was not to my taste. But the biggest problem was hitting the bottom of her range (C3). The song I'm working on just didn't work. I transposed up 4 semi-tones, and its a whole different ballgame. She becomes so smooth throughout. This is a very different voice to Solaria, but when you put her in the right key, she's great. Half-arrangement sample here... I'm working on this really long song. Still a long way to go, but happy with how Natalie sounds at least. No mention of California in this one.

View attachment whenthatdaycomes-natalie-up-4 semitones.mp3


----------



## Cyberic

richiebee said:


> I bought Natalie a few days ago. I struggled with her to be honest. That vibrato was not to my taste. But the biggest problem was hitting the bottom of her range (C3). The song I'm working on just didn't work. I transposed up 4 semi-tones, and its a whole different ballgame. She becomes so smooth throughout. This is a very different voice to Solaria, but when you put her in the right key, she's great. Half-arrangement sample here... I'm working on this really long song. Still a long way to go, but happy with how Natalie sounds at least. No mention of California in this one.
> 
> View attachment whenthatdaycomes-natalie-up-4 semitones.mp3


Great in every way imo.


----------



## raidergale

I've done a quick plug&play test with Vocaloid 6, using a file I made for SynthV a while ago. I think the results, as I said beforehand, don't really hold up with SynthV. I've also attached the original SynthV render with Feng Yi. It was made before the HDVM update, so it could in theory sound better nowadays.

Sarah (V6 Native English)
View attachment Sarah.mp3


Haruka (V6 JP -> ENG cross language)
View attachment Haruka.mp3


Megpoid (V6 JP -> ENG cross language)
View attachment Gumi.mp3


Feng Yi (SynthV CHN -> ENG cross language)
View attachment Feng.mp3


I'm sure the Vocaloid examples could sound better if some time was spent on it, since this was a straight SynthV -> Vocaloid file conversion, but the rendering quality itself sounds worse in Vocaloid than SynthV.


----------



## bosone

OK.
I'm blown away!


----------



## Markrs

raidergale said:


> I've done a quick plug&play test with Vocaloid 6, using a file I made for SynthV a while ago. I think the results, as I said beforehand, don't really hold up with SynthV. I've also attached the original SynthV render with Feng Yi. It was made before the HDVM update, so it could in theory sound better nowadays.
> 
> Sarah (V6 Native English)
> View attachment Sarah.mp3
> 
> 
> Haruka (V6 JP -> ENG cross language)
> View attachment Haruka.mp3
> 
> 
> Megpoid (V6 JP -> ENG cross language)
> View attachment Gumi.mp3
> 
> 
> Feng Yi (SynthV CHN -> ENG cross language)
> View attachment Feng.mp3
> 
> 
> I'm sure the Vocaloid examples could sound better if some time was spent on it, since this was a straight SynthV -> Vocaloid file conversion, but the rendering quality itself sounds worse in Vocaloid than SynthV.


Great to have this comparison but it is clear that Vocaloid isn't in the same league as Synth V


----------



## Markrs

bosone said:


> OK.
> I'm blown away!


Welcome to the secret thread that many of us on VI-C have been avidly following. The quality of the vocals that can be produce are stunning. 

It also makes me think how much further current sample libraries have to go to be able to create convincing results like Synth V can with vocals.


----------



## Koyo

Does someone know where I can get the official X-SAMPA phonemes supported by Synthesizer V? I've been looking all over but most certainly not at the right place.


----------



## raidergale

Koyo said:


> Does someone know where I can get the official X-SAMPA phonemes supported by Synthesizer V? I've been looking all over but most certainly not at the right place.


Solaria provides a plugin with all the English phonemes supported by SynthV, so here they are 






If you meant other languages like Chinese, I can try and dig up the old SynthV R1 editor, that one should have a full phoneme list for Chinese.

EDIT: well, nope, I remembered wrong. The Chinese phonemes can indeed be listed in SynthV R1, but only if you have a Chinese voicebank installed. There are no trials for Chinese voices in SynthV R1, so no luck there :(


----------



## David Cuny

Koyo said:


> Does someone know where I can get the official X-SAMPA phonemes supported by Synthesizer V? I've been looking all over but most certainly not at the right place.


The only X-SAMPA phonemes officially supported are those used in the Chinese phonemes:






Source: https://forum.synthesizerv.com/uplo.../8aedfcbedc6571c3e6dd361b1ddd318646c22b29.png

Unlike Vocaloid, SynthesizerV doesn't have a "one size fits all" approach to phonemes.

Instead, the neural network is trained in language-specific pronunciations.

More importantly, SynthesizerV does not allow mixing language models.

This means that phonemes available in one language may not be available in another language.

So trying to determine X-SAMPA coverage may not be useful, depending on what you're trying to do.


----------



## Koyo

David Cuny said:


> Unlike Vocaloid, SynthesizerV doesn't have a "one size fits all" approach to phonemes.
> 
> Instead, the neural network is trained in language-specific pronunciations.
> 
> More importantly, SynthesizerV does not allow mixing language models.
> 
> This means that phonemes available in one language may not be available in another language.
> 
> So trying to determine X-SAMPA coverage may not be useful, depending on what you're trying to do.


Thank you Raidergale and David. I'm trying to determine what is the best candidate for French singing, Arpabet or X-Sampa? French has more than 20 vowels phonemes (whithout counting the diphtongs), so I'd better stick with Arpabet.


----------



## raidergale

Yeah, French isn't easy to replicate with what's in SynthV. Chinese offers some _somewhat_ convincing alternatives for the French "r" phoneme, with "x" being close enough depending on context, but it requires a lot of phoneme editing.
This example uses Chinese for French, for example, and it also has a downloadable SVP file to see how they did it. The French section is short, but it can still give you some ideas.


----------



## gedlig

I can mostly make Solaria sing in my language, but there's a thick american accent to it. Especially with there not being a rolled r option, certain diphtongs in the phoneme list and vowels corresponding umlaut variants.

Edit: listening to the video above that was posted while I was typing this, maybe those could be possible after playing around with this more.


----------



## mohsohsenshi

raidergale said:


> Yeah, French isn't easy to replicate with what's in SynthV. Chinese offers some _somewhat_ convincing alternatives for the French "r" phoneme, with "x" being close enough depending on context, but it requires a lot of phoneme editing.
> This example uses Chinese for French, for example, and it also has a downloadable SVP file to see how they did it. The French section is short, but it can still give you some ideas.



Sounds not bad to my ear though its French has a heavy asian accent.

Trivia:
Weina HU was the official singing vocal of "Elsa" in the Chinese version of "Let it Go", So Synth V Weina would be the perfect choice to cover this song in Mandarin.


----------



## Koyo

raidergale said:


> Yeah, French isn't easy to replicate with what's in SynthV. Chinese offers some _somewhat_ convincing alternatives for the French "r" phoneme, with "x" being close enough depending on context, but it requires a lot of phoneme editing.
> This example uses Chinese for French, for example, and it also has a downloadable SVP file to see how they did it. The French section is short, but it can still give you some ideas.




Thanks!
Missing in that example is the "u" phoneme we can't hear in that example "un royaume de solitUde". The "u" is the arpabet "ih" but pronounced with the mouth in the form of the "uw". There's the "a" that isn't pronounced that way in the word "place" in French.
Also, there's the "p", "d" and "t" that are not as explosive in French... and how will I try to approximate the "en", "on", "in" and "un" phonemes? Will it be intelligible?
I'll still try!


----------



## mothershout

gedlig said:


> I can mostly make Solaria sing in my language, but there's a thick american accent to it.


I would say the same, and my first language *is* English! But I speak mostly British English, and find that I quite often want to tweak Solaria’s phonemes to be a bit less heavily Californian, usually by using _ax_ to replace some vowel with a schwa, to make her a bit more mid-Atlantic. I haven’t found a way to get a less American _r_ sound yet.


David Cuny said:


> More importantly, SynthesizerV does not allow mixing language models.


There might be a way to do that using groups. If I remember correctly, you can have different groups using different language models within the same track, and groups can overlap. I can imagine it’d be pretty complicated to edit, though.


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> Yeah, French isn't easy to replicate with what's in SynthV. Chinese offers some _somewhat_ convincing alternatives for the French "r" phoneme, with "x" being close enough depending on context, but it requires a lot of phoneme editing.
> This example uses Chinese for French, for example, and it also has a downloadable SVP file to see how they did it. The French section is short, but it can still give you some ideas.



The German is intelligible, the French and Dutch much less so.


----------



## bosone

I'm trying the free version and the voice rendering seems pretty lame and "vocoderish"...
I assume the pro version with solaria or natalie voice pack will be far better, but my main problem is that the free version seems to not include a VST plugin.
can someone comment a little but on the integration with Cakewalk Sonar ?? I assume that if the VSTi works well with other DAW sonar should not have problems right??
also, the interface is not so straightforward to work, I suppose I have to see some tutorial, read the manual and/or become familiar with hotkeys!


----------



## RogiervG

soulofsound said:


> The German is intelligible, the French and Dutch much less so.


is that not due to how the "programmer" of this musical phrasing programmed the vocal lines? using the wrong parameters for French and Dutch. Perhaps because he/she doesn't know the language, he/she cannot varify the correct pronounciation.


----------



## mothershout

bosone said:


> I'm trying the free version and the voice rendering seems pretty lame and "vocoderish"...


Quite a lot depends on the settings you use for the voice, whether you’re in the singer’s “natural” range, whether you tweak phonemes or not, and so on. I wouldn’t call the results I’ve heard (or created) “vocoderish” at all; on a recent track, it’s so realistic that I have had *many* people ask me who the singer is. Nobody guessed it was a synthetic voice. But it did take work to get that result.



bosone said:


> I assume the pro version with solaria or natalie voice pack will be far better, but my main problem is that the free version seems to not include a VST plugin.
> can someone comment a little but on the integration with Cakewalk Sonar ??


I can’t comment on Cakewalk Sonar, but I’m doing a lot of work with the plugin in Logic Pro. I find it works pretty well, though there isn’t a lot of online help to learn from. This thread has been very useful, and the Dreamtonics videos on YouTube have some tips, but there’s no good manual to read (or at least, I haven’t found it).

I think the biggest workflow limitation for the plugin is that all your editing has to be done within the plugin, and the UI is not the best. The voice rendering works in real time for playback (because much of the work is done ahead of time, as you edit the notes), but there’s no way to send MIDI data direct to the plugin. You have to create a separate MIDI file and import it, or write your voice lines using the plugin’s own piano roll editor.

A good feature is that all your SynthV project data can be stored within the DAW files, and can also be exported/imported as a separate SynthV project file if there’s any reason you want to work on it in the standalone SynthV app.

Once you’ve created your vocal lines, you can treat them like any other software instrument, or render them to audio files; either way you do all the processing and mixing in the DAW.


----------



## Koyo

RogiervG said:


> is that not due to how the "programmer" of this musical phrasing programmed the vocal lines? using the wrong parameters for French and Dutch. Perhaps because he/she doesn't know the language, he/she cannot varify the correct pronounciation.


My native language is French and I speak a little German. It's clear that the programmer just entered the words as is without phonetic consideration for the target language.
Though it can be intelligible, I realize that making Synthesizer V sing something else that Mandarin or English, it will sound unfelt and out of character, like Schwarzenegger trying to act like a casual american with his heavy accent.


----------



## Koyo

Using the information contained in the *english-arpabet-phones.txt* and the *mandarin-xsampa-phones.txt* files found in Synthesizer V Studio’s installation directory, I made this comparison chart:




What I can conclude is that despite previous discussions, X-Sampa is more apt to sing in other languages that have more vowels phonemes. Not much more, but at least a little. And I can get the [y] that sounds like the "u" in French!


----------



## bosone

mothershout said:


> Quite a lot depends on the settings you use for the voice, whether you’re in the singer’s “natural” range, whether you tweak phonemes or not, and so on. I wouldn’t call the results I’ve heard (or created) “vocoderish” at all; on a recent treack, it’s so realistic that I have had *many* people ask me who the singer is. Nobody guessed it was a synthetic voice. But it did take work to get that result.
> 
> 
> I can’t comment on Cakewalk Sonar, but I’m doing a lot of work with the plugin in Logic Pro. I find it works pretty well, though there isn’t a lot of online help to learn from. This thread has been very useful, and the Dreamtonics videos on YouTube have some tips, but there’s no good manual to read (or at least, I haven’t found it).
> 
> I think the biggest workflow limitation for the plugin is that all your editing has to be done within the plugin, and the UI is not the best. The voice rendering works in real time for playback (because much of the work is done ahead of time, as you edit the notes), but there’s no way to send MIDI data direct to the plugin. You have to create a separate MIDI file and import it, or write your voice lines using the plugin’s own piano roll editor.
> 
> A good feature is that all your SynthV project data can be stored within the DAW files, and can also be exported/imported as a separate SynthV project file if there’s any reason you want to work on it in the standalone SynthV app.
> 
> Once you’ve created your vocal lines, you can treat them like any other software instrument, or render them to audio files; either way you do all the processing and mixing in the DAW.


 
It seems that I have downloaded an old version

I have contacted solaria makers and they responded very quickly, addressing me to the correct version

The lack of midi input is pretty lame, I will try to import a midi file into the free version. 
What are the limitations of the free version? But just after this "upgrade" the software is indeed Impressive ,I think I'll buy it sooner or later ...


----------



## freecham

A dreamtonics forum user Cobran53 did a guide for the english/french arpanet :
https://forum.synthesizerv.com/t/topic/4794


----------



## Blancanegra

bosone said:


> It seems that I have downloaded an old version
> 
> I have contacted solaria makers and they responded very quickly, addressing me to the correct version
> 
> The lack of midi input is pretty lame, I will try to import a midi file into the free version.
> What are the limitations of the free version? But just after this "upgrade" the software is indeed Impressive ,I think I'll buy it sooner or later ...


*Available in Studio Pro version:*

AI retakes for pitch and timbre (free is limited to pitch only I think)
Vocal modes
Unlimited number of tracks
Live Rendering System scaled up to all CPU cores (faster response)
VSTi
LUA scripting
Aspiration Output render option that separates the airy part from singing voice
Alternative phoneme pronunciation switches in Note Properties


----------



## Blancanegra

bosone said:


> also, the interface is not so straightforward to work, I suppose I have to see some tutorial, read the manual and/or become familiar with hotkeys!


Dreamtonics published some basic video tutorials in Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/DreamtonicsCoLtd/playlists


----------



## richiebee

Blancanegra said:


> Dreamtonics published some basic video tutorials in Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/DreamtonicsCoLtd/playlists


These tutorials are laughable, honestly, and they're years old. This is where Dreamtonics needs to work harder. Synth-V is great. I love it. I vote it as my favourite plugin of ALL TIME. But Dreamtonics are doing a dis-service to the users who want to use it as a real tool (rather than just replace vocals to make "cover" songs) by not including a proper user manual, or even a good get started guide for the current version of their software. They should have proper documentation for every language for which the software/plugin is available.


----------



## raidergale

It looks like they're actually making a new series detailing how a song is made. No clue how in depth it'll go, only one video is out now and it's _extremely_ basic, but I guess we'll see.


----------



## richiebee

raidergale said:


> It looks like they're actually making a new series detailing how a song is made. No clue how in depth it'll go, only one video is out now and it's _extremely_ basic, but I guess we'll see.



Honestly, its really hard to follow when the menus are in Japanese. I realize that to some extent that's our fault for not speaking Japanese, and even more so, arrogant to think that others should speak English, but they do native English sound sets, so...

Maybe we should put together a syndicate to tackle doing a translated version in different languages for their new series (joking... kind of).


----------



## Blancanegra

richiebee said:


> Honestly, its really hard to follow when the menus are in Japanese. I realize that to some extent that's our fault for not speaking Japanese, and even more so, arrogant to think that others should speak English, but they do native English sound sets, so...
> 
> Maybe we should put together a syndicate to tackle doing a translated version in different languages for their new series (joking... kind of).


What Dreamtonics has achieved, considering it's just a tiny one-man company (he's 25!) although it has recently hired staff, I think is more than remarkable. It is understandable that his main market is China Japan, at least initially and he probably intends to make some cash and recurring income with the voices released while continuing to do what he loves most: researching and coding.

There is no doubt that the marketing strategy is not adequate if we compare it with other products that we usually acquire: poorly designed website, no user manual, very few video tutorials...

This little genius is full of surprises and I can't wait to see what the next advances in singing synthesis he will add to Synth V.


----------



## bosone

Hello again!
I had my first test with Solaria and the free version of Synth V



I have to say that i'm really impressed. I just discovered a whole new world!
It's just maybe three hours of work, all spent discovering the features and possibilities by myself. I definitely have to watch some tutorials.
I'm not completely satisfied by the pronunciation of some words, but from the demo I have seen on youtube, much more can be done. (for now I did just first verse and first chorus)


Original song here (although it has a male vocalist):



My initial cover with guitarra portuguesa, mandolin and erhu:


----------



## raidergale

I hadn't used Weina in a while, so I decided to try covering P!nk's "What About Us". Still using Hataori's script for pitch info.
The chorus still has P!nk's backing vocals, which might mask Weina's voice a bit. If I ever finish this I plan to make Weina sing the harmonies as well, for a more coherent sound.

View attachment WhatAboutUs_2.mp3


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> I hadn't used Weina in a while, so I decided to try covering P!nk's "What About Us". Still using Hataori's script for pitch info.
> The chorus still has P!nk's backing vocals, which might mask Weina's voice a bit. If I ever finish this I plan to make Weina sing the harmonies as well, for a more coherent sound.
> 
> View attachment WhatAboutUs_2.mp3


The belting is pretty good here. But maybe it's due to the Pink backings?


----------



## RogiervG

Can synthv also do opera convincingly? (male and female)
Or close harmonies in a classical context?
I've only heard pop/jazz music several (ten+) pages back in history
I am impressed with what i've heard so far, but i am just wondering how well it does in a different musical context


----------



## raidergale

soulofsound said:


> The belting is pretty good here. But maybe it's due to the Pink backings?


This is the file without the backing vocals. Pink definitely helped, but Weina's still quite powerful in her upper register.

View attachment NoBacking.mp3




RogiervG said:


> Can synthv also do opera convincingly? (male and female)
> Or close harmonies in a classical context?
> I've only heard pop/jazz music several (ten+) pages back in history
> I am impressed with what i've heard so far, but i am just wondering how well it does in a different musical context


Western opera? Not really at the moment, you can try to cheat by editing formant and such, but it will never be 100% convincing unfortunately.

Feng Yi, one of the available voices, has a Chinese Opera vocal mode that works really well, but Chinese Opera is _so_ different from the typical Western bel canto style that I really doubt you were talking about that.


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> This is the file without the backing vocals. Pink definitely helped, but Weina's still quite powerful in her upper register.
> 
> View attachment NoBacking.mp3


Thank you, that sounds good indeed.


----------



## richiebee

RogiervG said:


> Can synthv also do opera convincingly? (male and female)
> Or close harmonies in a classical context?
> I've only heard pop/jazz music several (ten+) pages back in history
> I am impressed with what i've heard so far, but i am just wondering how well it does in a different musical context


I don't think any of the voice packs would suit opera. There are too many vocal pronunciation differences between it and other forms of singing, and I don't think they're covered. 

Here's an SATB sample, that might at least give you an idea. I think classical styling is possible with a bit of work, particularly on note bending that gives each voice, not only realism, but its own personality. You can tame it down (or remove it completely if you want autotune style). I'm sure I'm butchering this stylistically and phrasing, since classical is not my style, but I just borrowed an SATB arrangement of Rock of Ages, and did this up super quickly with Solaria (s), Natalie (a) and Kevin (t and b). The voices are all doubled, so two people on each part. 

View attachment rock-of-ages-demoSSAATTBB.mp3


----------



## RogiervG

richiebee said:


> I don't think any of the voice packs would suit opera. There are too many vocal pronunciation differences between it and other forms of singing, and I don't think they're covered.
> 
> Here's an SATB sample, that might at least give you an idea. I think classical styling is possible with a bit of work, particularly on note bending that gives each voice, not only realism, but its own personality. You can tame it down (or remove it completely if you want autotune style). I'm sure I'm butchering this stylistically and phrasing, since classical is not my style, but I just borrowed an SATB arrangement of Rock of Ages, and did this up super quickly with Solaria (s), Natalie (a) and Kevin (t and b). The voices are all doubled, so two people on each part.
> 
> View attachment rock-of-ages-demoSSAATTBB.mp3


Thanks for that short piece, it gives me somewhat an idea of how well it works in satb arrangements.
Synthv goes deep, and little change of a parameter influences how the it pronounces words and syllables, so i think as per your example, it can do classical-like, but opera like is stretching it too much i guess.


----------



## Vlzmusic

RogiervG said:


> Thanks for that short piece, it gives me somewhat an idea of how well it works in satb arrangements.
> Synthv goes deep, and little change of a parameter influences how the it pronounces words and syllables, so i think as per your example, it can do classical-like, but opera like is stretching it too much i guess.


The AI enhancements Synth V does to a phrase after you enter it - have lots of nuances which give the performance distinct "pop" quality. It includes un-classical openness of the vowels, characteristic glide between some of the pitches, and shallow vibrato.

Moreover, for a good operatic voice you will need a very specific amplitude movements, and not just vibrato. At this point, trying to recalibrate performance suggested by the AI, in order to try and make it sound more classical - is like swimming against the stream. And if you just input operatic notes, and leave most of the AI as is, you get Michael Bolton


----------



## giwro

RogiervG said:


> Can synthv also do opera convincingly? (male and female)
> Or close harmonies in a classical context?
> I've only heard pop/jazz music several (ten+) pages back in history
> I am impressed with what i've heard so far, but i am just wondering how well it does in a different musical context


Not sure if I posted this here, but yes... I've used it to check harmonies. 


One little trick I found useful was to use the singers as a sort of "first chair" for Hollywood Choirs, not mixing in much, but using the consonants in separate stems to enhance the pronunciation of HC....


----------



## Vardaro

Pleasantly surprised! Just two things: the scoops up to certain notes do not fit this music, and I think the vowels shou!d be "lowered".


----------



## giwro

Vardaro said:


> Pleasantly surprised! Just two things: the scoops up to certain notes do not fit this music, and I think the vowels shou!d be "lowered".


Agree totally. This was without any editing of pitch nor vowels…


----------



## Blancanegra

Dreamtonics announced a new feminine japanese voice:




The type of voice is childlike, like Madonna in her beginnings. In the demo song it sounds very soft but could be due the standard vocal mode. Not my cup of tea anyway.


----------



## raidergale

I like Mai's voice, it definitely can fit a good niche for Japanese music, not sure about English though since her cross lingual shown there is quite accented (it's pretty much only used in the first "Merry-go-round" and in some backing vocals, though).

I'm not sure she'll have stronger modes, the demo shows her parameters on the right and it looks like the voicebank only has "Emotional" and "Soft" modes. Soft is self explanatory, and I don't really associate "emotional" with "power", but maybe?

As an aside, I've finished my cover of P!nk's "What About Us" using Weina. Still using Hataori's script for the base pitch line and used it as a starting point.



I've struggled when mixing this, so it probably doesn't sound great. I've kept some of P!nk's backing vocals because they added some extra space, but I've also used Weina for harmonies.


----------



## Pier-V

Blancanegra said:


> Dreamtonics announced a new feminine japanese voice:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The type of voice is childlike, like Madonna in her beginnings. In the demo song it sounds very soft but could be due the standard vocal mode. Not my cup of tea anyway.



I might easily be wrong, but after listening to Natalie and this new Mai voicebank demos I'm getting the impression Dreamtonics are aware they nailed legato style phrasing (for the time being) and now they're moving forward towards more staccato/portato style accented phrasings... with Natalie something feels off for some reason but here it sounds both natural and expressive to me.

If you listen closely the neural network algorhithm makes a pretty good work at accenting fast staccatos with fast and heavy vibrato, Solaria does this as well but in a slightly different way (I'm talking about the default NN training, not Praat implementation of course).
Moreover, there's something about the way notes are released and about how the little pauses between notes are handled which sounds like a step forward in this plugin development. And btw, the "cl" effect to accent phonemes seems to interact more organically with the rest of the performance.

Then there's the whole issue of liking the singer's timbre, but that depends on personal taste. Personally I don't mind the voice tone at all, it seems she sings pretty comfortably above high D which I particularly appreciate (Saki would start to struggle a bit that high).
The main problem in my case is that I don't really have an use for Japanese voicebanks unfortunatley, but I think I'll keep an eye on the upcoming demos nonetheless...


----------



## Blancanegra

Pier-V said:


> The main problem in my case is that I don't really have an use for Japanese voicebanks unfortunatley, but I think I'll keep an eye on the upcoming demos nonetheless...


Remember that thanks to the cross-synthesis any voice can sing in any of the available languages, although with some accent.

The good news is that cross-synthesis improves results over time as new voices of a language are added. With them the cross-synthesis is trained and the rest of the voices can receive updates that improve the pronunciation in non-native languages.

At the moment there are few native English voices to train the system and the updates may take a while, although I hope I'm wrong and it will be a reality very soon!


----------



## David Cuny

Dreamtonics seems to have a habit of releasing new voicebanks with no prior warning that they are being developed.

I wouldn't be surprised to find a new English male voicebank released Real Soon Now™.

I've purchased a number of Japanese male voicebanks with hopes that they could be useful with the cross-lingual function. But I still find their accent distracting, so they're pretty much unused.

So I'll hold on to my money until then... or Black Friday, whichever comes first.


----------



## mothershout

I was setting up a test to check the useful ranges of Solaria, Weina and Natalie today, and used a few notes at the start of each line to have each voice sing her name. Solaria sings her name as _so-lah-REE-ah_, where I think it should be so-LAH-ree-ah. Am I getting old and forgetful, or is there an obvious way to change the syllable that's emphasized? I suspect by default it emphasizes the note falling on a strong beat.

Incidentally, my test suggests that Solaria and Natalie have the same range, E3-G5, and Weina fits the mezzo-soprano range of G3-A4 (all using middle C=C4).


----------



## Vlzmusic

mothershout said:


> I was setting up a test to check the useful ranges of Solaria, Weina and Natalie today, and used a few notes at the start of each line to have each voice sing her name. Solaria sings her name as _so-lah-REE-ah_, where I think it should be so-LAH-ree-ah. Am I getting old and forgetful, or is there an obvious way to change the syllable that's emphasized? I suspect by default it emphasizes the note falling on a strong beat.
> 
> Incidentally, my test suggests that Solaria and Natalie have the same range, E3-G5, and Weina fits the mezzo-soprano range of G3-A4 (all using middle C=C4).


About the emphasized sounds, a few times I managed to bring it closer to a desired state thinkering with the internal lengths of the sounds within a word, you know, the detailed handles on the right tab. .


----------



## bosone

I just got the pro version and solaria as well, and still struggle to find some time to play with them
it's really impressive, I didn't thought it could be possible to achieve this results!
even before starting use this software, I'm already looking forward to a new male english voice with the same quality as solaria. Kevin is good but there is something that doesn't really suit my taste. maybe too "pop"? I want something aggressive, more rock/metal! :D 
... oh, and now I absolutely need to learn how to write lyrics!


----------



## bosone

raidergale said:


> I like Mai's voice, it definitely can fit a good niche for Japanese music, not sure about English though since her cross lingual shown there is quite accented (it's pretty much only used in the first "Merry-go-round" and in some backing vocals, though).
> 
> I'm not sure she'll have stronger modes, the demo shows her parameters on the right and it looks like the voicebank only has "Emotional" and "Soft" modes. Soft is self explanatory, and I don't really associate "emotional" with "power", but maybe?
> 
> As an aside, I've finished my cover of P!nk's "What About Us" using Weina. Still using Hataori's script for the base pitch line and used it as a starting point.
> 
> 
> 
> I've struggled when mixing this, so it probably doesn't sound great. I've kept some of P!nk's backing vocals because they added some extra space, but I've also used Weina for harmonies.



Impressive, indeed!
one question, as a less than a beginner user. did you draw all the pitch variations to "color" the performance by hand? is there a script? i see some extreme pitch deviation here and there...
or did you use the built-in sliders note per note? but I understood they act only at the beginning and end of the note, not in-between (to achieve pitch up several semitones -> pitch reset for example)


----------



## Piotrek K.

bosone said:


> ... oh, and now I absolutely need to learn how to write lyrics!


Yep, I downloaded free Solaria and V Studio Basic and now I want to write songs xD
This is outstanding achievement, comparing that to wonky wordbuilders in sample libraries this looks and sounds like a technology from next century. I put words and Solaria just... sings them. Not trying to sing. She just sings. And I even can change timbre of her voice and it sounds good (to certain point). Incredible. Just incredible. Wow.

Plus it is dirt cheap for a tech like that.


----------



## bosone

Piotrek K. said:


> Yep, I downloaded free Solaria and V Studio Basic and now I want to write songs xD
> This is outstanding achievement, comparing that to wonky wordbuilders in sample libraries this looks and sounds like a technology from next century. I put words and Solaria just... sings them. Not trying to sing. She just sings. And I even can change timbre of her voice and it sounds good (to certain point). Incredible. Just incredible. Wow.
> 
> Plus it is dirt cheap for a tech like that.


did the same, tried the free version and immediately purchased the pro. the paid version is SO DAMN better than the free that it's almost unbelievable.
I cannot wait to use them but my work and family stuff absorb all my time! :D


----------



## Blancanegra

mothershout said:


> I was setting up a test to check the useful ranges of Solaria, Weina and Natalie today, and used a few notes at the start of each line to have each voice sing her name. Solaria sings her name as _so-lah-REE-ah_, where I think it should be so-LAH-ree-ah. Am I getting old and forgetful, or is there an obvious way to change the syllable that's emphasized? I suspect by default it emphasizes the note falling on a strong beat.
> 
> Incidentally, my test suggests that Solaria and Natalie have the same range, E3-G5, and Weina fits the mezzo-soprano range of G3-A4 (all using middle C=C4).


The perceived difference in emphasis may be due to the length of the vowel in the syllables or to the difference in timbre. Perhaps you have tried a single note for the 4 syllables with the lyrics "Solaria" instead of 1 note for each syllable? The output timming is completely different!

You can modify the timbre in the AI retakes panel, and the duration and strength of the phonemes in the notes panel.

And yes, Weina range is mezzo-soprano.


----------



## raidergale

bosone said:


> Impressive, indeed!
> one question, as a less than a beginner user. did you draw all the pitch variations to "color" the performance by hand? is there a script? i see some extreme pitch deviation here and there...
> or did you use the built-in sliders note per note? but I understood they act only at the beginning and end of the note, not in-between (to achieve pitch up several semitones -> pitch reset for example)


Thanks!
This uses Hataori's RealVoice script to draw pitchbends. It's a script that, used in conjunction of Praat, can copy an original acapella's pitchbend into SynthV. The cleaner the acapella, the less editing it will require afterwards, but I always like to edit the results either way. 
The results can technically be able to be recreated by hand without any script, but I don't have the skills to achieve such realistic results myself


----------



## richiebee

bosone said:


> I just got the pro version and solaria as well, and still struggle to find some time to play with them
> it's really impressive, I didn't thought it could be possible to achieve this results!
> even before starting use this software, I'm already looking forward to a new male english voice with the same quality as solaria. Kevin is good but there is something that doesn't really suit my taste. maybe too "pop"? I want something aggressive, more rock/metal! :D
> ... oh, and now I absolutely need to learn how to write lyrics!


I feel much the same (both about Kevin and about writing lyrics!). 

Kevin sounds very boy band, but also very square. Dying for a bit more rock and roll.


----------



## Anthony

Hi,

Is there a way to increase/decrease *multiple* parameter values (e.g. pitch deviation) at the same time (rather than individually)?

I've tried using my mouse and scroll-wheel with the shift- ctrl- and alt-key without success.

I've also tried using the various sliders in the fly-out panel on the right-side of the editor. None of them changed the selected values (see below).

Is this possible?


----------



## David Cuny

Anthony said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is there a way to increase/decrease *multiple* parameter values (e.g. pitch deviation) at the same time (rather than individually)?


Not that I can see.

It's possible to scale parameter values using scripting, but there doesn't seem to be any function available to determine if a parameter point value has been selected. 

Without a way to determine if a parameter point has been selected, there's no way to scale only those points.

You _can_ determine the selected notes, however.

So I've got a script that will scale all the *Pitch Deviation* values between the first and last selected notes. But that's as granular as I can figure out.


----------



## Blancanegra

Anthony said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is there a way to increase/decrease *multiple* parameter values (e.g. pitch deviation) at the same time (rather than individually)?
> 
> I've tried using my mouse and scroll-wheel with the shift- ctrl- and alt-key without success.
> 
> I've also tried using the various sliders in the fly-out panel on the right-side of the editor. None of them changed the selected values (see below).
> 
> Is this possible?


That's only possible via scripts I guess. @David Cuny wrote some very useful scripts, one of them does what you need for pitch deviation: https://github.com/dcuny/synth-v-scripts


----------



## Anthony

To use scripts I have to upgrade to the Pro version. 

Is the following price ($161 w/o tax) for Pro and Solaria good, or should I wait for a BF sale?


----------



## David Cuny

Anthony said:


> To use scripts I have to upgrade to the Pro version.
> 
> Is the following price ($161 w/o tax) for Pro and Solaria good, or should I wait for a BF sale?


I don't believe I've ever seen Dreamtonics run a sale, other than an introductory price discount.


----------



## Blancanegra

This is the turn for one of the few songs I know with a different structure than usual, since it consists of several different verses that go up in the vocal register.

The result can be improved, very weak in the first verses (the low register resists me), improving in the mids and, I think, good in the upper part.

Was really fun, I hope you like it:

In dreams (Roy Orbison) - Kevin 1.7
View attachment In dreams - Kevin 1.7 TEST.mp3


Since it's kind of an operatic ballad the AI's pop/rock vibrato is too slow, so in AI Retakes I've reduced the expressiveness of the pitch to a minimum to get a pitch with no vibrato, then added a faster vibrato (about 6 Hz) in the Note Properties Panel. In some cases reducing the expressiveness of the tone to a minimum was not enough and I had to draw a flat tone by hand with the pencil (a tool that I try to avoid if it is possible to do it in another way).

To recreate Roy's signature portamento in this song I've chosen to do it in the Pitch Deviation parameter, as it allows a lot of tweaking control, but adds to the pitch irregularities of the AI and the vibrato of the note properties.

I also added quite a few notes with /cl/ and /br/ both at the beginning of sentences to emphasize the attacks of the first note, and to alter the endings, also with /hh/. By placing /cl/ and /hh/ on single notes we can change their length or pitch to get very different and varied results as they alter the timbre of the note they are attached to.

Sorry for the poor quality of the mix, it's certainly not my field. Have fun inspecting the attached project file.


----------



## J. H. Smith

richiebee said:


> I bought Natalie a few days ago. I struggled with her to be honest. That vibrato was not to my taste. But the biggest problem was hitting the bottom of her range (C3). The song I'm working on just didn't work. I transposed up 4 semi-tones, and its a whole different ballgame. She becomes so smooth throughout. This is a very different voice to Solaria, but when you put her in the right key, she's great. Half-arrangement sample here... I'm working on this really long song. Still a long way to go, but happy with how Natalie sounds at least. No mention of California in this one.
> 
> View attachment whenthatdaycomes-natalie-up-4 semitones.mp3


You've managed to get a lovely voice performance from Natalie!

Only thing that nags me is her singing "aroun[d]" and "foun[d]". But many RL singers do the same. Not everyone can be Madeleine Peyroux…


----------



## J. H. Smith

David Cuny said:


> I've purchased a number of Japanese male voicebanks with hopes that they could be useful with the cross-lingual function. But I still find their accent distracting, so they're pretty much unused.
> 
> So I'll hold on to my money until then... or Black Friday, whichever comes first.


I'm holding on to my card for (apart from CangQiong) a male voice like, for instance, Brett Sparks (The Handsome Family, 'Far from Any Road' in True Detective).


----------



## Blancanegra

Blancanegra said:


> This is the turn for one of the few songs I know with a different structure than usual, since it consists of several different verses that go up in the vocal register.
> 
> The result can be improved, very weak in the first verses (the low register resists me), improving in the mids and, I think, good in the upper part.
> 
> Was really fun, I hope you like it:
> 
> In dreams (Roy Orbison) - Kevin 1.7
> View attachment In dreams - Kevin 1.7 TEST.mp3
> 
> 
> Since it's kind of an operatic ballad the AI's pop/rock vibrato is too slow, so in AI Retakes I've reduced the expressiveness of the pitch to a minimum to get a pitch with no vibrato, then added a faster vibrato (about 6 Hz) in the Note Properties Panel. In some cases reducing the expressiveness of the tone to a minimum was not enough and I had to draw a flat tone by hand with the pencil (a tool that I try to avoid if it is possible to do it in another way).
> 
> To recreate Roy's signature portamento in this song I've chosen to do it in the Pitch Deviation parameter, as it allows a lot of tweaking control, but adds to the pitch irregularities of the AI and the vibrato of the note properties.
> 
> I also added quite a few notes with /cl/ and /br/ both at the beginning of sentences to emphasize the attacks of the first note, and to alter the endings, also with /hh/. By placing /cl/ and /hh/ on single notes we can change their length or pitch to get very different and varied results as they alter the timbre of the note they are attached to.
> 
> Sorry for the poor quality of the mix, it's certainly not my field. Have fun inspecting the attached project file.


As I said, it can be improved, so I have taken it back and, after tweaking all the notes with vibrato, it now sounds like this:

In dreams (Roy Orbison) Kevin 1.7 acapella
View attachment In dreams (Acapella) - Kevin 1.7 test.mp3


I'll rest my ears for a while and tweak a few minor things another day, then I'll post the project file explaining how I achieved the improvement.


----------



## bosone

Blancanegra said:


> As I said, it can be improved, so I have taken it back and, after tweaking all the notes with vibrato, it now sounds like this:
> 
> In dreams (Roy Orbison) Kevin 1.7 acapella
> View attachment In dreams (Acapella) - Kevin 1.7 test.mp3
> 
> 
> I'll rest my ears for a while and tweak a few minor things another day, then I'll post the project file explaining how I achieved the improvement.


do you think kevin is suitable for rock /metal or similar? it seems very "pop" to me.
does it have "modes" like solaria (airy, power, clean...)


----------



## David Cuny

bosone said:


> do you think kevin is suitable for rock /metal or similar? it seems very "pop" to me.
> does it have "modes" like solaria (airy, power, clean...)


Trust your ears.  

View attachment Kevin_not_rocking_out.mp3


Settings:






YMMV.


----------



## bosone

David Cuny said:


> Trust your ears.
> 
> View attachment Kevin_not_rocking_out.mp3
> 
> 
> Settings:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YMMV.


Thanks!

I'm doing my first real test with synth V

the song is not even mixed, just the part sketched out.
the lyrics are completely nonsense!



using Modo Drum with jamstix and amplitube orange


----------



## richiebee

Finished/abandoned song with Natalie - I think I've probably put an excerpt of this on this thread, but I'm more or less finished with it now. Still not happy with the drums (might narrow their stereo field to bring them into more realistic territory), but otherwise, I think its not bad. Natalie belts it (as much as Natalie ever belts it) in the last minute and a half. I love the smooth voice. I think she's my fave Synth-V bank. Lyrics are by a guy who goes by the handle McNaughtonPark on the Song Stuff forum. I wrote the music and produced this with his permission to use his lyrics.

View attachment whenthatdaycomes-221030-final5 (1).mp3


----------



## richiebee

bosone said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I'm doing my first real test with synth V
> 
> the song is not even mixed, just the part sketched out.
> the lyrics are completely nonsense!
> 
> 
> 
> using Modo Drum with jamstix and amplitube orange



Never had Solaria down as a metal singer. I think you've done her proud here. Sounds great.


----------



## David Cuny

bosone said:


> do you think kevin is suitable for rock /metal or similar? it seems very "pop" to me.
> does it have "modes" like solaria (airy, power, clean...)


As a follow up, I separated out Kevin's aspiration and ran that through distortion, and ran the vocal through _another_ distortion, and then those two into yet another vocal effect VST. I'm also playing with various parameters:

View attachment Kevin_not_rocking_out_2.mp3


And of course, there's a growl script, which I'm not using here.

All this is overkill, but adding distortion to the aspiration _will_ add a bit more grit to the vocal.


----------



## Blancanegra

bosone said:


> do you think kevin is suitable for rock /metal or similar? it seems very "pop" to me.
> does it have "modes" like solaria (airy, power, clean...)


As David said, trust your ears!. Kevin is a great voicebank for Pop, Indie, Soft Rock and Disco, but also a great crooner!. I usually put gender at 1.5 for a more androginous tone. I have posted many demos if you are interested in hearing his voice in other contexts.

Today I did this Italo Disco hit demo, with doubled voices:

Dolce Vita (Ryan Paris) - Kevin 1.7
View attachment Dolce Vita - Kevin 1.7 test.mp3


I didn't spend much time on the second voice, I duplicated the track and quickly tweaked the AI takes a bit to add variety to the pitch and timbre. Then in DAW I delayed the second voice track 12 ms.

Enjoy the project file!


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> Today I did this Italo Disco hit demo, with doubled voices:
> 
> Dolce Vita (Ryan Paris) - Kevin 1.7
> View attachment Dolce Vita - Kevin 1.7 test.mp3


One thing about SynthesizerV is that it tends to homogenize voices. For example, I took blancanegra's track and changed the voices to Solaria, Weina and Natalie and altered the settings a bit to make them sound male:

*Dolce Vita (Ryan Paris) - Solaria, Weina, Natalie:*
View attachment DolceVita_Voices.mp3


To my ears, the voices are much more similar than different. For some of the voices, I'd be hard pressed to say it's _not_ Kevin in the mix even though he's not there at all.

As blancanegra noted, simply adding additional voices isn't going to create a group sound. The timing and pitch are going to be too similar. Here's the same track as above, but two tracks run through Izotope's Vocal Doubler:

*Dolce Vita (Ryan Paris) - Solaria, Weina, Natalie with vocal doubling VST:*
View attachment DolceVita_Voices_with_doubling.mp3


My takeaways:

The female vocalists can be used effectively as male vocalists. In some cases, it sounds better to convert a female English voice to a male English voice than to use the cross-lingual synthesis on a non-native English voice.


Using a vocal doubler effect to delay and detune vocals is necessary for getting a group sound. Simply adding different voices to the track isn't going to work well.


Raising the Tone Shift on the vocals when making a voice more "male" is important for keeping it from getting to muddy and losing clarity.


----------



## Hataori

David Cuny said:


> As a follow up, I separated out Kevin's aspiration and ran that through distortion, and ran the vocal through _another_ distortion, and then those two into yet another vocal effect VST. I'm also playing with various parameters:
> 
> View attachment Kevin_not_rocking_out_2.mp3
> 
> 
> And of course, there's a growl script, which I'm not using here.
> 
> All this is overkill, but adding distortion to the aspiration _will_ add a bit more grit to the vocal.


This is what Praat can do with Vocal Toolkit:

View attachment rock-raspiness_3-breathiness_10.mp3

raspiness 3 and breathiness 10

And some metal growl:

View attachment rock-raspiness_90-breathiness_50.mp3

raspiness 90, breathiness 50


----------



## David Cuny

Hataori said:


> This is what Praat can do with Vocal Toolkit:


Vocals out of context can sound weird, but that's great.


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> One thing about SynthesizerV is that it tends to homogenize voices...
> 
> As blancanegra noted, simply adding additional voices isn't going to create a group sound. The timing and pitch are going to be too similar...


The doubling in my mix starts in the second verse (0:25, We're dancing...) like in the original version:



Although a second voice is noticeable from that point in my mix, it is not different enough. There are slight variations in pitch and timbre, but timing is the same for both tracks. Changing the tuning 2-3 cents up or down to the second voice from the editor (Voice panel/tuning), also helps a lot to separate them. With more editing work it could be done, but everyone agree that moving 2 faders and pressing a button as you did is always preferable to doing a tedious task! 

I like to dream that, sooner or later, Dreamtonics will give us new tools to do doubling, choirs and harmonies quickly and easily, non-destructively and with a high degree of control. Imagine something similar to the results of Voctrolabs' Cantamus (a practical tool for singers, conductors, choirs and vocal ensembles) but powered by Synth V:


----------



## ScarletJerry

David Cuny said:


> One thing about SynthesizerV is that it tends to homogenize voices. For example, I took blancanegra's track and changed the voices to Solaria, Weina and Natalie and altered the settings a bit to make them sound male:
> 
> *Dolce Vita (Ryan Paris) - Solaria, Weina, Natalie:*
> View attachment DolceVita_Voices.mp3
> 
> 
> To my ears, the voices are much more similar than different. For some of the voices, I'd be hard pressed to say it's _not_ Kevin in the mix even though he's not there at all.
> 
> As blancanegra noted, simply adding additional voices isn't going to create a group sound. The timing and pitch are going to be too similar. Here's the same track as above, but two tracks run through Izotope's Vocal Doubler:
> 
> *Dolce Vita (Ryan Paris) - Solaria, Weina, Natalie with vocal doubling VST:*
> View attachment DolceVita_Voices_with_doubling.mp3
> 
> 
> My takeaways:
> 
> The female vocalists can be used effectively as male vocalists. In some cases, it sounds better to convert a female English voice to a male English voice than to use the cross-lingual synthesis on a on-native English voice.
> 
> 
> Using a vocal doubler effect to delay and detune vocals is necessary for getting a group sound. Simply adding different voices to the track isn't going to work well.
> 
> 
> Raising the Tone Shift on the vocals when making a voice more "male" is important for keeping it from getting to muddy and losing clarity.


David,

Can you share your settings for altering the settings a bit to make them sound male?

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## ScarletJerry

Blancanegra said:


> The doubling in my mix starts in the second verse (0:25, We're dancing...) like in the original version:
> 
> 
> 
> Although a second voice is noticeable from that point in my mix, it is not different enough. There are slight variations in pitch and timbre, but timing is the same for both tracks. Changing the tuning 2-3 cents up or down to the second voice from the editor (Voice panel/tuning), also helps a lot to separate them. With more editing work it could be done, but everyone agree that moving 2 faders and pressing a button as you did is always preferable to doing a tedious task!
> 
> I like to dream that, sooner or later, Dreamtonics will give us new tools to do doubling, choirs and harmonies quickly and easily, non-destructively and with a high degree of control. Imagine something similar to the results of Voctrolabs' Cantamus (a practical tool for singers, conductors, choirs and vocal ensembles) but powered by Synth V:



I mentioned this earlier in this thread, but I am tempted to try Waves Harmony to hear how it would work with Solaria. I'm actually waiting for someone else to buy it and try it first 

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Blancanegra

ScarletJerry said:


> I mentioned this earlier in this thread, but I am tempted to try Waves Harmony to hear how it would work with Solaria. I'm actually waiting for someone else to buy it and try it first
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


Waves Harmony is 39,99 $ now, 73% discount.


----------



## David Cuny

ScarletJerry said:


> David,
> 
> Can you share your settings for altering the settings a bit to make them sound male?
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


It's pretty subjective, but something along these lines:

*Gender: *0.25
*Loudness: *1.7
*Tension: *0.335
*Tone Shift: *180
*Bold: *95%
*Steady: *75%


----------



## ScarletJerry

David Cuny said:


> It's pretty subjective, but something along these lines:
> 
> *Gender: *0.25
> *Loudness: *1.7
> *Tension: *0.335
> *Tone Shift: *180
> *Bold: *95%
> *Steady: *75%


Thanks David!


----------



## ScarletJerry

One more question- is there a way to make the grid in Synthesizer V bigger? It’s easy to do in the piano roll in Logic, but I can’t seem to find a way to do it in SynthV. I do wish that the program had a comprehensive manual.


----------



## David Cuny

ScarletJerry said:


> One more question- is there a way to make the grid in Synthesizer V bigger? It’s easy to do in the piano roll in Logic, but I can’t seem to find a way to do it in SynthV. I do wish that the program had a comprehensive manual.


You can scale the grid in the horizontal direction using the *Shift+MouseWheel*.

The only way to scale the vertical direction is to adjust the *Interface Scaling* in the *Settings* panel, but will scale the entire user interface:


----------



## ScarletJerry

David Cuny said:


> You can scale the grid in the horizontal direction using the *Shift+MouseWheel*.
> 
> The only way to scale the vertical direction is to adjust the *Interface Scaling* in the *Settings* panel, but will scale the entire user interface:


Thanks David! I never would have figured that out on my own.


----------



## Barza

This is a really informative thread, so much useful information within it. Thanks to all who have contributed to it, and it is really great (not to mention unusual) to see how a topic which can generate some strong opinions has managed to stay respectful and informative throughout. Particular thanks to David for his really insightful contributions.

At 90 pages by now, it is a long read to dig the gems of information out of this thread. Would it be possible for us to begin collecting this info together and laying it out in a more systematic way so that new users and those who pop in and out of vocal synthesis (yes, that is me) would be able to access it more directly. That could be done in another new, thread leaving the conversation here to run on more specific issues.

What I am thinking of is along the following lines:

1. A list of the main vocal synth platforms (Vocaloid, Synth-v, EMvoice, Plogue, I am sure there are others) and the soundbanks available for each of them. With links to purchase info, some demos and discussions of the voices.

2. A list of third party tools that are helpful for use alongside the above (scripts, tools, vocal harmoniser plug-ins)

3. A list of helpful tips and tricks for specific aspects of the above.

In many cases such a thread would refer back to posts already here. 

I am happy (though I don’t claim to be qualified!) to start work on this if anyone other than me thinks it a good idea, also happy to hear ideas on how to organise this info if different from the above.

By the way: if you have access to a streaming service, and look up Long Dead Scribber - Disinfectant Injection, that is me.


----------



## Blancanegra

I started with this:

Wicked game (Chris Isaak) - Kevin 1.7 unedited vocals
View attachment Wicked game - Kevin vocals NO EDIT 1.7.mp3


And I didn't think it would work but boy, not that bad!:

Wicked game (Chris Isaak) - Kevin 1.7
View attachment Wicked game - Kevin 1.7.mp3


For the first and lower verses I've reduced the phonemes strengh practically to their lowest value.
The falsetto isn't as nice as Isaac's basically because Kevin does it naturally higher up, and I've had to force it with the Tone Shift parameter, lowering the Gender and Tension a bit, but it doesn't seem possible to get it any closer.
For this effect of breakage in the register change it's also necessary a sudden change of tone, very square, drawing with the pencil, and synchronize all parameters in time.

I mean, it's a bit tedious anyway. Enjoy the project!


----------



## ScarletJerry

Barza said:


> This is a really informative thread, so much useful information within it. Thanks to all who have contributed to it, and it is really great (not to mention unusual) to see how a topic which can generate some strong opinions has managed to stay respectful and informative throughout. Particular thanks to David for his really insightful contributions.
> 
> At 90 pages by now, it is a long read to dig the gems of information out of this thread. Would it be possible for us to begin collecting this info together and laying it out in a more systematic way so that new users and those who pop in and out of vocal synthesis (yes, that is me) would be able to access it more directly. That could be done in another new, thread leaving the conversation here to run on more specific issues.
> 
> What I am thinking of is along the following lines:
> 
> 1. A list of the main vocal synth platforms (Vocaloid, Synth-v, EMvoice, Plogue, I am sure there are others) and the soundbanks available for each of them. With links to purchase info, some demos and discussions of the voices.
> 
> 2. A list of third party tools that are helpful for use alongside the above (scripts, tools, vocal harmoniser plug-ins)
> 
> 3. A list of helpful tips and tricks for specific aspects of the above.
> 
> In many cases such a thread would refer back to posts already here.
> 
> I am happy (though I don’t claim to be qualified!) to start work on this if anyone other than me thinks it a good idea, also happy to hear ideas on how to organise this info if different from the above.
> 
> By the way: if you have access to a streaming service, and look up Long Dead Scribber - Disinfectant Injection, that is me.


I’m willing to put a “best of the thread” doc together, but the problem is that I would want to copy and paste comments that were written by everyone, so it would be tricky to credit individual users. One really useful resource that I recently discovered is the Synth V online manual’s *intermediate and advanced* section. It’s kind of hidden at the end of the QuickStart guide:



Intermediate and Advanced Usage



Scarlet Jerry


----------



## baggage

Blancanegra, I keep seeing you say you're using Kevin version 1.7, when ever I check for updates the newest I can get is ver. 106. Am I missing something or are you talking about the Synthesizer V Studio version, just wondering​


----------



## Blancanegra

baggage said:


> Blancanegra, I keep seeing you say you're using Kevin version 1.7, when ever I check for updates the newest I can get is ver. 106. Am I missing something or are you talking about the Synthesizer V Studio version, just wondering​


1.7 refers to the version of the editor. HDVM (High Dynamic Voice Models, AI retakes) were included in that version so the project files I posted earlier for version 1.6 of the editor sound different than how I posted them. Sorry for the confusion, I should have specified better.


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> I started with this:
> 
> Wicked game (Chris Isaak) - Kevin 1.7 unedited vocals
> View attachment Wicked game - Kevin vocals NO EDIT 1.7.mp3
> 
> 
> And I didn't think it would work but boy, not that bad!:
> 
> Wicked game (Chris Isaak) - Kevin 1.7
> View attachment Wicked game - Kevin 1.7.mp3
> 
> 
> For the first and lower verses I've reduced the phonemes strengh practically to their lowest value.
> The falsetto isn't as nice as Isaac's basically because Kevin does it naturally higher up, and I've had to force it with the Tone Shift parameter, lowering the Gender and Tension a bit, but it doesn't seem possible to get it any closer.
> For this effect of breakage in the register change it's also necessary a sudden change of tone, very square, drawing with the pencil, and synchronize all parameters in time.
> 
> I mean, it's a bit tedious anyway. Enjoy the project!


Surprisingly good since it's such a uniquely impossible voice to recreate. Especially the higher parts sound quite good.


----------



## richiebee

ScarletJerry said:


> I’m willing to put a “best of the thread” doc together, but the problem is that I would want to copy and paste comments that were written by everyone, so it would be tricky to credit individual users. One really useful resource that I recently discovered is the Synth V online manual’s *intermediate and advanced* section. It’s kind of hidden at the end of the QuickStart guide:
> 
> 
> 
> Intermediate and Advanced Usage
> 
> 
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


Not to nit pick, but the "manual" is based on a very different version to SynthV than we currently have.


----------



## ScarletJerry

richiebee said:


> Not to nit pick, but the "manual" is based on a very different version to SynthV than we currently have.


Didn’t know that - thanks for pointing this out.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Blancanegra

*BOOOM!

Synthesizer V 1.8 released!*








Synthesizer V Studio 1.8.0b1 Update | Dreamtonics株式会社


Dreamtonics releases the Synthesizer V Studio 1.8.0b1 update. As a major and comprehensive update, 1.8.0b1 is being rolled out as a beta first. The update introduces a major evolution of the synthesis




dreamtonics.com





Metronome
MIDI in support
Evolution of the synthesis engine – high speed Diffusion Probabilistic Models (DPM)
Note-level specification of the language
Free voice database MAI



I'm speechless!


----------



## Markrs

Blancanegra said:


> *BOOOM!
> 
> Synthesizer V 1.8 released!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthesizer V Studio 1.8.0b1 Update | Dreamtonics株式会社
> 
> 
> Dreamtonics releases the Synthesizer V Studio 1.8.0b1 update. As a major and comprehensive update, 1.8.0b1 is being rolled out as a beta first. The update introduces a major evolution of the synthesis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dreamtonics.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Metronome
> MIDI in support
> Evolution of the synthesis engine – high speed Diffusion Probabilistic Models (DPM)
> Note-level specification of the language
> Free voice database MAI
> 
> 
> 
> I'm speechless!



Can't wait to see what everyone does with these enhancements as the quality of Synth V is already incredible and using Diffusion models could really take this next level. This might also be the first commercial music creation app to use Diffusion models that we have seen in the graphics world.


----------



## David Cuny

This is a impressive update. 

The main voice I don't see updated is Eleanor Forte.


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> This is a impressive update.
> 
> The main voice I don't see updated is Eleanor Forte.


Because she's not an AI voicebank?

Which voices are going to be updated​

DreamtonicsAn Xiao, Feng Yi, Kevin, Mo Chen, Natalie, Ryo AI, Saki AI, Qing Su, Weina, YumaAHSKoharu Rikka AI, Natsuki Karin AI, Hanakuma Chifuyu AI, Tsurumaki Maki AI (JPN), Tsurumaki Maki AI (ENG), Kyomachi Seika AI, Tsuina-Chan AIAUDIOLOGIEANRIEclipsed SoundsSOLARIAQuadimensionMEDIUM5 Stardust


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> Because she's not an AI voicebank?


Nope, Eleanor Forte AI is an AI voicebank.


----------



## raidergale

Eleanor erroneously received an early update alongside SynthV 1.8.0b1. The update included vocal modes too. It got pulled and Volor just released a statement on Twitter, so it looks like the update will still be available soon.



I wasn't quick enough so I don't have the updated voicebank, but for anyone curious her modes will be Melancholic, Solid, Warm, Powerful, Dark, Clear, Tender and Bold. Not sure how big the difference will be with this many modes, I hope they'll be distinct enough.


----------



## Vlzmusic

I am starting to suspect Dreamtonics having some help from the aliens... no other explanation.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Vlzmusic said:


> I am starting to suspect Dreamtonics having some help from the aliens... no other explanation.


Or the AIlians...


----------



## J. H. Smith

baggage said:


> Blancanegra, I keep seeing you say you're using Kevin version 1.7, when ever I check for updates the newest I can get is ver. 106. Am I missing something or are you talking about the Synthesizer V Studio version, just wondering​


Hi *baggage*, your posts wil be easier to read if you skip the bold face.


----------



## J. H. Smith

No mention of Quadimension CangQiong, though…


----------



## AudioXpression

Excellent thread!! Despite very different opinions.
Respectfully think that the human soul will always be THE significant difference.
And yet, these synths are very useful and ingenious tools.


----------



## Aldunate

This is insane.


----------



## freecham

Blancanegra said:


> The 1.8.0b1 beta update does not appear in the editor nor in the link provided by Dreamtonics (the voices do in the resources page). I'm missing something or is it not available yet?


The links are in the Download links section of the page https://dreamtonics.com/en/synthesizer-v-studio-1-8-0b1-update/


----------



## Blancanegra

freecham said:


> The links are in the Download links section of the page https://dreamtonics.com/en/synthesizer-v-studio-1-8-0b1-update/


I just found it, thank you!


----------



## hummersallad

And here are links to beta versions of updated voices for 1.8:
https://resource.dreamtonics.com/download/English/Voice Databases/Beta Releases/For 1.8.0b1/


----------



## Vlzmusic

AudioXpression said:


> Excellent thread!! Despite very different opinions.
> Respectfully think that the human soul will always be THE significant difference.
> And yet, these synths are very useful and ingenious tools.


And the soul of the composer/programmer - isn't that enough?


----------



## richiebee

AudioXpression said:


> Excellent thread!! Despite very different opinions.
> Respectfully think that the human soul will always be THE significant difference.
> And yet, these synths are very useful and ingenious tools.


Human soul can be injected into the performance. In fact, its largely already there by the personality of these voicebanks. The rest comes from us, the same way as if we were programming a symphony orchestra. If you think all MIDI/electronic oriented data is soulless, or indeed if you think SynthV is, I think you're in the wrong place.


----------



## raidergale

I have to say that Mai's English is a lot better than I expected. While an accent is still there, it sounds less noticeable to me than other native JP voices.
Here's a random plug&play with an older file I made with Praat and Hataori's script.

View attachment TeenageDreamMai.mp3


----------



## hummersallad

I also made a quick test with Mai singing in English and I agree, definitely a pleasant surprise!


----------



## bosone

I'm playing with synthV since a couple of weeks. I'm really impressed but now I'm facing the greatest problem of my life: my complete inhability to write lyrics. I have an almost complete song for which i simply cannot write down more than 2 lines of verse and half chorus. 
i't soooo depressing!!!
it's like having a ferrari and can't be able to drive it out of the garage!!


----------



## elucid

bosone said:


> I'm playing with synthV since a couple of weeks. I'm really impressed but now I'm facing the greatest problem of my life: my complete inhability to write lyrics. I have an almost complete song for which i simply cannot write down more than 2 lines of verse and half chorus.
> i't soooo depressing!!!
> it's like having a ferrari and can't be able to drive it out of the garage!!


That’s exactly my problem as well. I have no faith in my own words.


----------



## odod

my best practice is write a melody + lyrics using sibelius and export to mid or xml and converting it using this amazing website utaformatix


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> This is a impressive update.


In a while I had last night I did some testing with the 1.8 update I've noticed that the voices sing with more confidence, the improved intonation is more varied on attacks and releases (great for doubling vocals), the natural vibrato is much better and it even has tremolo when the intensity is very high, I'll try redoing the New York (F. Sinatra) and In Dreams (R. Orbison) demos.


----------



## jvsax

I just loaded the 1.8 pro update and the updated Kevin and Solaria. Nice update! A question for you all, though: On my Mac in either standalone or as a plug-in in Cubase I can’t figure out how to have the Vibrato parameters take effect. The panel sliders don’t reduce the vibrato at all. And the parameter window at the bottom of the GUI shows a flatline for Vibrato control. Any tips?


----------



## Vlzmusic

jvsax said:


> I just loaded the 1.8 pro update and the updated Kevin and Solaria. Nice update! A question for you all, though: On my Mac in either standalone or as a plug-in in Cubase I can’t figure out how to have the Vibrato parameters take effect. The panel sliders don’t reduce the vibrato at all. And the parameter window at the bottom of the GUI shows a flatline for Vibrato control. Any tips?


I am no expert (unfortunately) but I think that the vibrato you hear by default is not tied to the slider named Vibrato, but it is rather the byproduct of the AI animating the pitch with its auto processing. So in order to lower this vibrato you have to make AI "tuning", as they call it, less expressive.


----------



## richiebee

Blancanegra said:


> In a while I had last night I did some testing with the 1.8 update I've noticed that the voices sing with more confidence, the improved intonation is more varied on attacks and releases (great for doubling vocals), the natural vibrato is much better and it even has tremolo when the intensity is very high, I'll try redoing the New York (F. Sinatra) and In Dreams (R. Orbison) demos.


Great way to put it. I agree with you completely. Its a very nice update for the sound quality alone. To me we have just moved another step closer to not being able to detect this as a VI, its just incredible where we have got to with it. Quick demo of Natalie, but the update in sound quality is equally impressive in Kevin and Solaria.

View attachment I grew up.mp3


----------



## Blancanegra

richiebee said:


> Great way to put it. I agree with you completely. Its a very nice update for the sound quality alone. To me we have just moved another step closer to not being able to detect this as a VI, its just incredible where we have got to with it. Quick demo of Natalie, but the update in sound quality is equally impressive in Kevin and Solaria.
> 
> View attachment I grew up.mp3


Wow, very emotional and dramatic performance, I've got goosebumps!


----------



## richiebee

jvsax said:


> I just loaded the 1.8 pro update and the updated Kevin and Solaria. Nice update! A question for you all, though: On my Mac in either standalone or as a plug-in in Cubase I can’t figure out how to have the Vibrato parameters take effect. The panel sliders don’t reduce the vibrato at all. And the parameter window at the bottom of the GUI shows a flatline for Vibrato control. Any tips?


Switch out of Instant mode (hit the Instant button above the piano roll, on the right), and then use custom tuning (Auto Process > Auto Tuning (Customized Style). I tend to start by resetting pitch (Modify > Reset Pitch and Modify > Reset Detuned Notes) just to get in the habit of starting with a clean slate. Sometimes things get left behind if you change words or timing around, so that's why I do that first... just habit, not sure it really does anything. Custom tuning is not a difficult thing to use and gives beautiful results. The only downside for me is that you can't use it with AI Takes. Not really a big deal - if you want to use backing vocals or multitracked parts with different sounds, you can just apply a different "random seed" or change other settings within the Auto Tuning (Customized Stlye) dialog.


----------



## richiebee

Blancanegra said:


> Wow, very emotional and dramatic performance, I've got goosebumps!


Thanks. Along with lots of others it seems, I just have to figure out how to write more lyrics. Imagine being stuck at bar 16.


----------



## Pier-V

So, a while ago I said I would have kept an eye on Mai, since my gut feeling told me there was an ongoing experimentation in the newest voicebanks with regards to different kind of phrasings (more staccato and less lyrical). I don't know yet if this is specific for Mai or if that's a general improvement after the update, but there's _definitely_ something going on after the DPM implementation and it's unbelievable.
Right now I'm backing up some vocal lines as Wav files (just in case) but as soon as I'm done I'll start experimenting myself with the beta. And btw, really? Not only the update, but Mai is free for SynthV Pro users as well? Just wow.

Speaking of Mai, I've started doing my usual bit of research on Youtube, and so far I found some pretty interesting stuff. I'll link some of the best performances I encountered so far:

- This one has a remarkable use of both falsetto and fast phrasing (4:04), imho

For some reason it's not available as an embedded video, if you're interested search this on Youtube or right click the video and choose the "copy video url" function: 
【Synthesizer V AI Mai】名もなき詩【SynthVカバー】 (Author: Kurano)​


- This, instead, shows a solid use of staccato phrasing. Maybe rap is becoming more and more a reality?

Same issue as above, this is the title: 
Koisuru Beam (cillia/kyaami) - Mai SynthV Cover (Author: cyberastranova)​


- This other one has a phrase in particular which captured my attention since it shows a more lyrical side of the voicebank (at around 0:26, timestamped)



- Same exact thing, but different track/performance (here the interesting bit is at 4:18, timestamped again)



I don't know about you, but if you ask me this was an incredible, unexpected surprise. Thank you Dreamtonics.


----------



## Tim_Wells

The skill required to write good lyrics is underestimated by so many. I struggled with it myself. I bought books and took courses. 

It was especially challenging for me, since I was heavily influenced by some of the brilliant folk-rock lyricists of the 70s, like Joni Mitchell and Jackson Browne. 

Ok... I'm dating myself now...


----------



## gzapper

elucid said:


> That’s exactly my problem as well. I have no faith in my own words.


I have no faith in my own words sounds like a good song title.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

gzapper said:


> I have no faith in my own words sounds like a good song title.


Or lyrics:

I have no
faith
in my own
were-er-er-er-er-
-er-erdz... they
don't 

Or: no fay-ay-ayth in
ma-ai o-o-own [consonance slant rhyme: in/own]
words oh
etc.


----------



## Blancanegra

jvsax said:


> I just loaded the 1.8 pro update and the updated Kevin and Solaria. Nice update! A question for you all, though: On my Mac in either standalone or as a plug-in in Cubase I can’t figure out how to have the Vibrato parameters take effect. The panel sliders don’t reduce the vibrato at all. And the parameter window at the bottom of the GUI shows a flatline for Vibrato control. Any tips?


Pitch in Synth V came from 3 sources:

A -The pitch generated by AI retakes. In the AI Retakes Panel you can alter the expresiveness of the AI generated pitch for the selected note/s, or generate a new pitch take.

B -In Note Properties panel you can add vibrato to the selected note/s using the sliders. The sine envelope is added to the AI pitch.

C - The Pitch Parameter Panel. You can draw here the pitch with the provided node tools in the panel tool bar.
You can also draw the pitch over the notes using the pencil from the Piano Roll tool bar in combination with the Nodes icon selected. Changes done here are reflected in the Pitch Parameter Panel.

The final pitch is A+B+C.


----------



## Hataori

richiebee said:


> Thanks. Along with lots of others it seems, I just have to figure out how to write more lyrics. Imagine being stuck at bar 16.


Why not use an AI for the lyrics too:








Artificial Intelligence Songwriter – These Lyrics Do Not Exist


Generate your own song lyrics for any topic, also choose lyrics genre and lyrics mood




theselyricsdonotexist.com












Jarvis - AI lyrics generator


Overcome writer's block with AI generated lyric ideas. Start your free trial today!




www.jarvis-lyrics.com




These are some randomly found pages, there is a lot when searching for "AI lyrics generator".
At least it is funny.


----------



## Pier-V

Ok, I have just completed the first round of experiments. There's a lot to say already, I'll try to address everything as concisely as possible but I think it's important to discuss the new update right now. Maybe I'll consider the idea of copying this post and sharing it on the SynthV forum as well.

It turns out the new phrasing capabilities are the same for *every* voicebank, not only Mai. This, however, is a good and a bad thing at the same time.

The new 1.8 beta SynthV engine is way way better at handling two things in particular: falsetto range and very fast melodies with a lot of phoneme articulation. In order to achieve this result, the engine completely changed the way it handles phrasing - my gut feeling was right, everything is performed less legato and more portato/staccato now.
The real problem is, the engine is now phisically incapable of rendering flowing lines in a lyrical legato fashion. Just to give you an example, I've tried this new phrasing choices on the song I posted here a while ago, "Midnight Soliloquy" and it's just... the wrong performance for that kind of style.
I've also made a comparison between Solaria *106* rendered with SynthV *1.7* and the same Solaria *106 *but rendered with SynthV *1.8beta*, and unfortunately the two files are not the exact same - they are _very_ similiar, but they still don't null when inverted in polarity and if put on the far R/L you get a stereo signal... This means that even if it's possible to switch voicebanks on the fly (Solaria 1.6 vs Solaria 1.8b), the old voicebank is not entirely "recovered".

To avoid confusion, before the beta update the combo in use was Solaria 106 with SynthV 1.7, after the update it's Solaria 108b1 with SynthV 1.8beta.

I'll now show you an audio example to put things in perspective: below the same excerpt is performed using Solaria 108b1 first and 106 second respectively. The test is done inside the 1.8beta version of SynthV so the engine itself is out of the equation for simplicity purposes.
The melody is structured like this: first, a line with average characteristics and no phoneme editing (it uses the default "la" syllable); soon after the melody goes in falsetto range and uses lyrics; in the remaining part it performs a very fast line where the objective is to check for intelligibility.

I think you'll agree on the fact that overall the new voicebank gives a *better* performance, but it also plays the line in a completely different style which may not be suited for every situation, especially in some genres!

View attachment Phrasing Example 1-8.mp3

View attachment Phrasing Example 1-6.mp3


This is a serious issue in my opinion - I don't know if the engine allows it, but a possible solution may be the implementation of a new function (like tension, gender etc.) to go from legato to staccato?
That way everyone should be happy, in theory...


----------



## ScarletJerry

So if I want to work on a slow, melodic lyrical song, should I hold off on the upgrade?


----------



## jvsax

richiebee said:


> Switch out of Instant mode (hit the Instant button above the piano roll, on the right), and then use custom tuning (Auto Process > Auto Tuning (Customized Style). I tend to start by resetting pitch (Modify > Reset Pitch and Modify > Reset Detuned Notes) just to get in the habit of starting with a clean slate. Sometimes things get left behind if you change words or timing around, so that's why I do that first... just habit, not sure it really does anything. Custom tuning is not a difficult thing to use and gives beautiful results. The only downside for me is that you can't use it with AI Takes. Not really a big deal - if you want to use backing vocals or multitracked parts with different sounds, you can just apply a different "random seed" or change other settings within the Auto Tuning (Customized Stlye) dialog.


This works great, thanks! The remaining thing in the Auto Process > Auto Tuning (Customized Style) control panel that I'm unsure about is the difference between Vibrato 1 and Vibrato 2 and what part of the note they each affect.


----------



## Rikk

I'm getting interested in this. Where do you purchase the MEDIUM5 Stardust bank? There were some old links to a China website only. Anybody has an update?


----------



## Vlzmusic

Pier-V said:


> Ok, I have just completed the first round of experiments. There's a lot to say already, I'll try to address everything as concisely as possible but I think it's important to discuss the new update right now. Maybe I'll consider the idea of copying this post and sharing it on the SynthV forum as well.
> 
> It turns out the new phrasing capabilities are the same for *every* voicebank, not only Mai. This, however, is a good and a bad thing at the same time.
> 
> The new 1.8 beta SynthV engine is way way better at handling two things in particular: falsetto range and very fast melodies with a lot of phoneme articulation. In order to achieve this result, the engine completely changed the way it handles phrasing - my gut feeling was right, everything is performed less legato and more portato/staccato now.
> The real problem is, the engine is now phisically incapable of rendering flowing lines in a lyrical legato fashion. Just to give you an example, I've tried this new phrasing choices on the song I posted here a while ago, "Midnight Soliloquy" and it's just... the wrong performance for that kind of style.
> I've also made a comparison between Solaria *106* rendered with SynthV *1.7* and the same Solaria *106 *but rendered with SynthV *1.8beta*, and unfortunately the two files are not the exact same - they are _very_ similiar, but they still don't null when inverted in polarity and if put on the far R/L you get a stereo signal... This means that even if it's possible to switch voicebanks on the fly (Solaria 1.6 vs Solaria 1.8b), the old voicebank is not entirely "recovered".
> 
> To avoid confusion, before the beta update the combo in use was Solaria 106 with SynthV 1.7, after the update it's Solaria 108b1 with SynthV 1.8beta.
> 
> I'll now show you an audio example to put things in perspective: below the same excerpt is performed using Solaria 108b1 first and 106 second respectively. The test is done inside the 1.8beta version of SynthV so the engine itself is out of the equation for simplicity purposes.
> The melody is structured like this: first, a line with average characteristics and no phoneme editing (it uses the default "la" syllable); soon after the melody goes in falsetto range and uses lyrics; in the remaining part it performs a very fast line where the objective is to check for intelligibility.
> 
> I think you'll agree on the fact that overall the new voicebank gives a *better* performance, but it also plays the line in a completely different style which may not be suited for every situation, especially in some genres!
> 
> View attachment Phrasing Example 1-8.mp3
> 
> View attachment Phrasing Example 1-6.mp3
> 
> 
> This is a serious issue in my opinion - I don't know if the engine allows it, but a possible solution may be the implementation of a new function (like tension, gender etc.) to go from legato to staccato?
> That way everyone should be happy, in theory...


Just to make sure I didn't misread - first is the new one, right?

Maybe it can interfere in other situations, but here it makes things way better, on all fronts, in my opinion. You see, the first "la la la" in the older engine sounds faint, and disregards the glottal contractions a singer like Solaria would have for each "la" - as if she makes her best to move only her tongue, and rest of the body remains frozen, keeping the air completely steady. This sounds lifeless.

The new engine may overemphasize each "la" a bit too much, but it sounds more vibrant and believable overall. The timbre improved throughout all the example as well. 

I am probably gonna wait for stable release, and hope for the best ...


----------



## Pier-V

Vlzmusic said:


> Just to make sure I didn't misread - first is the new one, right?
> 
> Maybe it can interfere in other situations


Yes to both. I started from the example above because I wanted to keep a positive attitude, and I'm confident the implementation of DPM will be beneficial to SynthV in the long run, but as it's typical with experimentation there are always downsides at first, and this technology is no exception.

I'll show clearly what I mean in the following two comparisons: in some cases, the new Solaria version will have trouble performing the lines and some notes will be straight up out of tune. It doesn't happen here, but in other projects I've also encountered the "kazoo" effect you get when a note is played with perfectly precise intonation, something that literally never happened to me before while using Solaria.

All the examples below are rendered using the 1.8beta version of SynthV, since it would be really impractical to switch between engine versions and reinstall them every time. However, I've noticed that, when opening an old project, if the voicebank version is left "not specified" a (backup?) version of the old voicebank *with the old 1.7 SynthV version* is rendered instead. Compared to Solaria 106/SynthV 1.8beta, it sounds higher in volume, brighter and slightly more defined.
Once a voicebank version is selected, the "not specified" option disappears until the project is loaded again. I've added this version as well to one of the comparisons.

1) Camden cover excerpts, sung by Laura Brehm

Original, for reference:



Solaria 106

View attachment Camden Cover Excerpts - 106.mp3


Solaria 1.8b1

View attachment Camden Cover Excerpts - 108b1.mp3


2) Lyrical Excercise without Lyrics - here the issues I'm talking about become even more appearent. I encourage to listen to it in its entirety, but if not possible I recommend checking what happens at 0:40 and 1:57 in particular

Solaria "Not Specified"

View attachment Lyrical Excercise without Lyrics - Not Specified.mp3


Solaria 106

View attachment Lyrical Excercise without Lyrics - 106.mp3


Solaria 108b1

View attachment Lyrical Excercise without Lyrics - 108b1.mp3


I can't post it here yet, but the song I'm working at, "Midnight Soliloquy", is completely unplayable in the new version, unfortunately. I'm actually considering the idea of going back to SynthV 1.7, but I'll stay in the 1.8beta for a while nonetheless, since I want to study the new approach a bit more before.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Pier-V said:


> Yes to both. I started from the example above because I wanted to keep a positive attitude, and I'm confident the implementation of DPM will be beneficial to SynthV in the long run, but as it's typical with experimentation there are always downsides at first, and this technology is no exception.
> 
> I'll show clearly what I mean in the following two comparisons: in some cases, the new Solaria version will have trouble performing the lines and some notes will be straight up out of tune. It doesn't happen here, but in other projects I've also encountered the "kazoo" effect you get when a note is played with perfectly precise intonation, something that literally never happened to me before while using Solaria.
> 
> All the examples below are rendered using the 1.8beta version of SynthV, since it would be really impractical to switch between engine versions and reinstall them every time. However, I've noticed that, when opening an old project, if the voicebank version is left "not specified" a (backup?) version of the old voicebank *with the old 1.7 SynthV version* is rendered instead. Compared to Solaria 106/SynthV 1.8beta, it sounds higher in volume, brighter and slightly more defined.
> Once a voicebank version is selected, the "not specified" option disappears until the project is loaded again. I've added this version as well to one of the comparisons.
> 
> 1) Camden cover excerpts, sung by Laura Brehm
> 
> Original, for reference:
> 
> 
> 
> Solaria 106
> 
> View attachment Camden Cover Excerpts - 106.mp3
> 
> 
> Solaria 1.8b1
> 
> View attachment Camden Cover Excerpts - 108b1.mp3
> 
> 
> 2) Lyrical Excercise without Lyrics - here the issues I'm talking about become even more appearent. I encourage to listen to it in its entirety, but if not possible I recommend checking what happens at 0:40 and 1:57 in particular
> 
> Solaria "Not Specified"
> 
> View attachment Lyrical Excercise without Lyrics - Not Specified.mp3
> 
> 
> Solaria 106
> 
> View attachment Lyrical Excercise without Lyrics - 106.mp3
> 
> 
> Solaria 108b1
> 
> View attachment Lyrical Excercise without Lyrics - 108b1.mp3
> 
> 
> I can't post it here yet, but the song I'm working at, "Midnight Soliloquy", is completely unplayable in the new version, unfortunately. I'm actually considering the idea of going back to SynthV 1.7, but I'll stay in the 1.8beta for a while nonetheless, since I want to study the new approach a bit more before.



Thanks for your work! The problems are indeed more prominent here, and I wonder if at first stages of DPM development we will have a "hit or miss" situations, depending on the voice, lyrics, register etc.


----------



## bosone

gzapper said:


> I have no faith in my own words sounds like a good song title.





elucid said:


> That’s exactly my problem as well. I have no faith in my own words.


well, actually @elucid gave me the initial seed to write down all the lyrics for my song. I decided to write something about inhability to write lyrics for a song... it has already be done in the past but nevertheless, I'm not going for an emmy! :D

BTW, I suppose I have to give him credits! 

listen the almost final product (sorry for the silent at the beginning)



The song still lacks a guitar solo in the middle part and maybe some more refinement here and there.
What about the mix??


in any case, synthV is just incredible

The lyrics:



I can't make it
undertake it
i can't bear it
feeling shaky

I have no faith
in my own words
no more feeling
no more screaming

I don't know what
I was writing
feeling just like
overwhelming

can't believe it
is so hard to
write down words for
saying something

CHORUS
more and more i write about this
there's still something i can't figure

more and more i look inside this
there are details I can't understand



VERSE 2
throwing my soul
out of my place
I'm uneasy
with this feeling

don't regret to
be so trivial
just bacause i
want to stand out

try to keep my
full attention
sounds and colors
keep disturbing

stay on focus
not distracting
my mind wanders
thoughts runs in my head

CHORUS
more and more i write about this
there's still something i can't figure

more and more i look inside this
there are details I can't understand

BRIDGE 

i need
something to feel
not so superficial

i am
struggling to be
something so much better

CHORUS
more and more i write about this
there's still something i can't figure

more and more i look inside this
there are details I can't understand


----------



## Blancanegra

ScarletJerry said:


> So if I want to work on a slow, melodic lyrical song, should I hold off on the upgrade?


Working with Kevin, I noticed that setting the voice bank in the latest version AI Timbre Retakes doesn't work at all, but it does with the older version of the voice bank. To clarify:

1.8+new version of voice bank: AI timbre repeats don't work.
1.8+old version of voicebank: AI timbre replays work fine.

I would like to know if it only happens to me or it's a bug.


----------



## elucid

bosone said:


> well, actually @elucid gave me the initial seed to write down all the lyrics for my song. I decided to write something about inhability to write lyrics for a song... it has already be done in the past but nevertheless, I'm not going for an emmy! :D
> 
> BTW, I suppose I have to give him credits!
> 
> listen the almost final product (sorry for the silent at the beginning)
> 
> 
> 
> The song still lacks a guitar solo in the middle part and maybe some more refinement here and there.
> What about the mix??
> 
> 
> in any case, synthV is just incredible
> 
> The lyrics:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't make it
> undertake it
> i can't bear it
> feeling shaky
> 
> I have no faith
> in my own words
> no more feeling
> no more screaming
> 
> I don't know what
> I was writing
> feeling just like
> overwhelming
> 
> can't believe it
> is so hard to
> write down words for
> saying something
> 
> CHORUS
> more and more i write about this
> there's still something i can't figure
> 
> more and more i look inside this
> there are details I can't understand
> 
> 
> 
> VERSE 2
> throwing my soul
> out of my place
> I'm uneasy
> with this feeling
> 
> don't regret to
> be so trivial
> just bacause i
> want to stand out
> 
> try to keep my
> full attention
> sounds and colors
> keep disturbing
> 
> stay on focus
> not distracting
> my mind wanders
> thoughts runs in my head
> 
> CHORUS
> more and more i write about this
> there's still something i can't figure
> 
> more and more i look inside this
> there are details I can't understand
> 
> BRIDGE
> 
> i need
> something to feel
> not so superficial
> 
> i am
> struggling to be
> something so much better
> 
> CHORUS
> more and more i write about this
> there's still something i can't figure
> 
> more and more i look inside this
> there are details I can't understand



Not sure what to say. Glad I was the accidental spur for the burst of creativity! Awesome work!


----------



## raidergale

Blancanegra said:


> Working with Kevin, I noticed that setting the voice bank in the latest version AI Timbre Retakes doesn't work at all, but it does with the older version of the voice bank. To clarify:
> 
> 1.8+new version of voice bank: AI ring repeats don't work.
> 1.8+old version of voicebank: AI ring replays work fine.
> 
> I would like to know if it only happens to me or it's a bug.


Yeah, I noticed the same, new voicebanks don't react well at at all with timbre retakes. I _think_ there might be some very minor differences in some voicebanks, but they're barely noticeable.
I've also noticed that, when using the new cross-language feature in the same track, if the main database's language is set to Japanese then the particular set of notes set to English will completely ignore the "cl" glottal stop phoeneme. The reverse doesn't happen, so if you set the main language to English and then switch some notes to Japanese that phoneme will work for both the English and Japanese parts.


----------



## richiebee

jvsax said:


> This works great, thanks! The remaining thing in the Auto Process > Auto Tuning (Customized Style) control panel that I'm unsure about is the difference between Vibrato 1 and Vibrato 2 and what part of the note they each affect.


You can apply settings per note, so the easiest way to find out, is to create two notes with no vibrato, hit the reset pitch and then go into AutoTuning (Customized Style) and increase one of the vibrato sliders on one note, and the other on the other note. I think vibrato 1 is the body of the note, and vibrato 2 is the tail, but I haven't done the test that I mention above myself, so I'm just going off gut feeling.


----------



## raidergale

Pier-V said:


> I'll show clearly what I mean in the following two comparisons: in some cases, the new Solaria version will have trouble performing the lines and some notes will be straight up out of tune. It doesn't happen here, but in other projects I've also encountered the "kazoo" effect you get when a note is played with perfectly precise intonation, something that literally never happened to me before while using Solaria.



Are you using Instant Mode for these examples? Auto-pitch tuning has been completely revamped between 1.7 and 1.8, so it's possible the results are not to your liking. A workaround for this would be to completely turn off Instant Mode, select the old 106 Solaria as your voice, then select all the notes and run Auto-Process -> Auto Pitch Tuning. This is the equivalent of Instant Mode, with the difference that it's not realtime and it lets you select a seed and expressiveness from that particular popup window. Since you selected 106 Solaria, it should apply the pitch tuning using data from that version. You can then switch back to 108 Solaria and see if the results are better.
Instant Mode always takes its data from the version you're currently using, so if it's enabled and you're using 108 Solaria it'll take pitch data from that version, which might not be what you want.


----------



## Blancanegra

I rescued an old project for Eleanor wich I tested first with Mai but finally did it with Weina.
Mai Ai pitch palette is limited compared to Weina, who plays in another league and offers a lot of interpretations for each note or note selection. Mai has a very distinct vibrato ans she likes to apply it everywhere.

Hopelessly devoted to you (Olivia Newton-John) - Weina 104b1, SV 1.8 beta
View attachment Hopelessly devoted to you - Weina 1.8 test.mp3


Unfortunately AI timbre doesn't take effect with the lastest voice banks and I couldn't generate better takes, but the result has been very good with little work. I did a test with Mai but, as I said, she lacks performance ability for this style, unless you want to spend a lot of time correcting the pitch.

Enjoy the project!


----------



## richiebee

Blancanegra said:


> I rescued an old project for Eleanor wich I tested first with Mai but finally did it with Weina.
> Mai Ai pitch palette is limited compared to Weina, who plays in another league and offers a lot of interpretations for each note or note selection. Mai has a very distinct vibrato ans she likes to apply it everywhere.
> 
> Hopelessly devoted to you (Olivia Newton-John) - Weina 104b1, SV 1.8 beta
> View attachment Hopelessly devoted to you - Weina 1.8 test.mp3
> 
> 
> Unfortunately AI timbre doesn't take effect with the lastest voice banks and I couldn't generate better takes, but the result has been very good with little work. I did a test with Mai but, as I said, she lacks performance ability for this style, unless you want to spend a lot of time correcting the pitch.
> 
> Enjoy the project!


I'm curious as to how Weina sounds with her own character on this. If I were to send you a file with the pitches flattened out, and corrected where needed would you mind doing a quick render using Weina? Doesn't need to be put to the backing track, I'm really just interested in hearing Weina's character. I've never been very impressed with demos of her, and while I think yours here is one of the best I have heard, its clearly tracking pitch from ONJ's performance. Barely any vocal artifacts though is very encouraging and your demo sounds great in its own right. btw m.19 - the word "not" should be "no".


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> I did a test with Mai but, as I said, she lacks performance ability for this style, unless you want to spend a lot of time correcting the pitch.


One thing I wish - and I just posted on the _SynthesizerV_ forum - is that the pitch correction acted more like pitch correction of other software.

Even with Pitch Correction on, _SynthesizerV_ allows the pitch of singers to go flat over time. That's something that's realistic, but generally not preferred.

Most pitch correction algorithms have a "Strength" option, where they apply a constant correction per timestep towards the center pitch. Set low, and the correction speed is too slow to pull the pitch back to center. Set it too high, and the pitch is never allowed to deviate from the center pitch.

In theory, this is something that could be written as a script, but I'd prefer that it "just worked" when Pitch Correction is selected.


----------



## Blancanegra

richiebee said:


> I'm curious as to how Weina sounds with her own character on this. If I were to send you a file with the pitches flattened out, and corrected where needed would you mind doing a quick render using Weina? Doesn't need to be put to the backing track, I'm really just interested in hearing Weina's character. I've never been very impressed with demos of her, and while I think yours here is one of the best I have heard, its clearly tracking pitch from ONJ's performance. Barely any vocal artifacts though is very encouraging and your demo sounds great in its own right. btw m.19 - the word "not" should be "no".


Would be a pleasure!
You can also give me some indications about the dynamics of the verses to assign different vocal modes to each zone. I'll fix the lyrics, thank you.


----------



## David Cuny

I haven't been using Groups, but after looking at


Blancanegra said:


> Enjoy the project!


I haven't been using *Groups*, but after looking through your project, you've convinced me I _should_ be.

One question - I can see the groups in the *Library*, and navigate to them by clicking on the *Group*:






However, clicking on the *Group* in the *Library* only navigates to the group - it doesn't actually _select _it.

To do that, I have to click on the *Group* button in the timeline:






However, if I go to a *Group* via the menu, it navigates to the group _and_ selects it:






Is there some sort of shortcut I'm not seeing that allows me to navigate to _and_ select from the *Library* panel?


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> I haven't been using Groups, but after looking at
> 
> I haven't been using *Groups*, but after looking through your project, you've convinced me I _should_ be.
> 
> One question - I can see the groups in the *Library*, and navigate to them by clicking on the *Group*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, clicking on the *Group* in the *Library* only navigates to the group - it doesn't actually _select _it.
> 
> To do that, I have to click on the *Group* button in the timeline:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, if I go to a *Group* via the menu, it navigates to the group _and_ selects it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there some sort of shortcut I'm not seeing that allows me to navigate to _and_ select from the *Library* panel?


I double click on a note of the group to select it.
Another anoying thing is that each group has it own parameters editable (wich is convenient) but you have no clue where you are editing the parameters: inside the group timeline or in the global timeline.


----------



## raidergale

Using @Blancanegra's file I did something that shouldn't really be done.
Here's Mai at 700% Emotional.

View attachment Mai700.mp3


You can technically open any .svp file with notepad and manually change the vocal modes values to go beyond the 0-150% that's currently allowed. If you keep the edits relatively small (... so not 700% like I did here) the results can work really well. The further you push the values, the more artifacts and weird stuff will happen. 700% Emotional resulted in a lot of artifacts, and a totally different voice, but it was still an interesting test.


----------



## richiebee

Blancanegra said:


> Would be a pleasure!
> You can also give me some indications about the dynamics of the verses to assign different vocal modes to each zone. I'll fix the lyrics, thank you.


Thanks for this... this file should open up with just flat pitch (as in no transitions, no vibrato) in non-Instant mode (I'm guessing that has a name... lol), so I'd like to see what it sounds like with Weina, with just some arbitary settings in the Auto Pitch Tuning.


----------



## Blancanegra

Aaah, we are knowing each other, hahaha!

Knowing me, knowing you (ABBA) - Weina 104b1 · SV 1.8 beta
View attachment Knowing me knowing you - Weina 1.8.mp3


Another rescued project I did for Eleanor. Took me like 20 minutes to get this, plus another 15 having fun with vocal modes, etc. All parameters are completely clean, just notes and AI retakes. Is the /ay/ diptonge in "tears in mY EYEs" a bit muffled?

I think Weina has some weird vowels, not very defined. Enjoy the project file!


----------



## Blancanegra

richiebee said:


> Thanks for this... this file should open up with just flat pitch (as in no transitions, no vibrato) in non-Instant mode (I'm guessing that has a name... lol), so I'd like to see what it sounds like with Weina, with just some arbitary settings in the Auto Pitch Tuning.


Here we go, the only magic here was done pushing INSTANT MODE ON:

View attachment untitled_Flat_pitch.mp3


In the attached file I added a track with the Weina AI pitch converted to pitch deviation (INSTANT MODE OFF).


----------



## richiebee

Blancanegra said:


> Here we go, the only magic here was done pushing INSTANT MODE ON:
> 
> View attachment untitled_Flat_pitch.mp3
> 
> 
> In the attached file I added a track with the Weina AI pitch converted to pitch deviation (INSTANT MODE OFF).


Thanks so much. This sounds really great. We have some nice variety in English speaking voices I think. If only we could get the same from the males.


----------



## Juulu

So I've dropped into this thread every now and then but the recent examples you all have been posting have been really inspiring. I'm anxiously excited to try some vocaloid stuff but don't really know where to start. Is this something I use inside my DAW or is it it's own software?


----------



## dhmusic

Juulu said:


> So I've dropped into this thread every now and then but the recent examples you all have been posting have been really inspiring. I'm anxiously excited to try some vocaloid stuff but don't really know where to start. Is this something I use inside my DAW or is it it's own software?


You can use it either way but I think the VST version lacks a number of features found in the standalone version. I've never used it in my DAW.


----------



## David Cuny

Juulu said:


> So I've dropped into this thread every now and then but the recent examples you all have been posting have been really inspiring. I'm anxiously excited to try some vocaloid stuff but don't really know where to start. Is this something I use inside my DAW or is it it's own software?


Here's the official video tutorial series: Click Me!

As for using it in your DAW, it depends on the workflow you're comfortable with.

Personally, I create a single backing track in my DAW, and import that into the standalone version of _SynthV_. 

I then create the vocals in _SynthV_, and when I'm done export the vocal tracks as *.wav* files, splitting out the aspiration:






Being able to have the aspiration and the harmonic content on different audio tracks is pretty useful, and I don't think it's supported if you do it from within the DAW.

Although _SynthV_ stores the data when you save the file, it doesn't store the audio data. So each time you open a file in _SynthV_, it has to regenerate the audio data. That can take a bit of time.

So if I find I'm going back to _SynthesizerV_ and tweaking the vocals, I'll usually leave it open. That way, I can toggle back and forth between my DAW and _SynthV_, and I don't have to wait for it to regenerate the audio each time.


----------



## gzapper

David Cuny said:


> Here's the official video tutorial series: Click Me!
> 
> As for using it in your DAW, it depends on the workflow you're comfortable with.
> 
> Personally, I create a single backing track in my DAW, and import that into the standalone version of _SynthV_.
> 
> I then create the vocals in _SynthV_, and when I'm done export the vocal tracks as *.wav* files, splitting out the aspiration:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Being able to have the aspiration and the harmonic content on different audio tracks is pretty useful, and I don't think it's supported if you do it from within the DAW.
> 
> Although _SynthV_ stores the data when you save the file, it doesn't store the audio data. So each time you open a file in _SynthV_, it has to regenerate the audio data. That can take a bit of time.
> 
> So if I find I'm going back to _SynthesizerV_ and tweaking the vocals, I'll usually leave it open. That way, I can toggle back and forth between my DAW and _SynthV_, and I don't have to wait for it to regenerate the audio each time.


I've used it inside my DAW, it works fine except that the transport doesn't always sync up. So if I play a track Synth V will keep playing until I hit the stop transport inside the plugin window. That's a bit of a pain, but otherwise it works fine. 

It just took me a while to realize you don't send midi to the instrument track, you have to draw the notes inside the plugin window. The new update allows midi input, though, doesn't it?


----------



## David Cuny

gzapper said:


> The new update allows midi input, though, doesn't it?


Yes, although I don't know if it's from within the DAW or standalone only.


----------



## odod

View attachment Masked Rider - Someone Loves You.mp3


Finally it's easy to make a song with MIDI input .. thank you DREAMTONICS!

P.S : If you know the song, then .. we are at the same age .. lol


----------



## richiebee

dhmusic said:


> You can use it either way but I think the VST version lacks a number of features found in the standalone version. I've never used it in my DAW.


What's missing from the VST version?
I always use it in my DAW. It integrates very well, but isn't a typical VST by any means. Your song data stays in the plugin instance rather than being on your timeline. Unless you choose to bounce it to an audio track that is.


----------



## Blancanegra

Some new Weina quick tests done with previous projects posted here before.
I think GOLD SERIES voice banks are playing in a different league. No parameters editing, just a few AI Retakes and vocal mode adjustments to fit each song more or less:

Ben (Michael Jackson) - Weina 104b1 · SV 1.8 beta
View attachment Ben - Weina 1.8 test.mp3


Lowlife (Poppy) - Weina 104b1 · SV 1.8 beta
View attachment Lowlife - Weina 1.8 test.mp3


Project files attached!


----------



## richiebee

Blancanegra said:


> Some new Weina quick tests done with previous projects posted here before.
> I think GOLD SERIES voice banks are playing in a different league. No parameters editing, just a few AI Retakes and vocal mode adjustments to fit each song more or less:
> 
> Ben (Michael Jackson) - Weina 104b1 · SV 1.8 beta
> View attachment Ben - Weina 1.8 test.mp3
> 
> 
> Lowlife (Poppy) - Weina 104b1 · SV 1.8 beta
> View attachment Lowlife - Weina 1.8 test.mp3
> 
> 
> Project files attached!


What do you refer to as gold series? 

Start of Ben is creepy good btw. Lowlife sounds more realistic than the original song. The process is now complete!!!


----------



## ScarletJerry

Blancanegra said:


> Some new Weina quick tests done with previous projects posted here before.
> I think GOLD SERIES voice banks are playing in a different league. No parameters editing, just a few AI Retakes and vocal mode adjustments to fit each song more or less:
> 
> Ben (Michael Jackson) - Weina 104b1 · SV 1.8 beta
> View attachment Ben - Weina 1.8 test.mp3
> 
> 
> Lowlife (Poppy) - Weina 104b1 · SV 1.8 beta
> View attachment Lowlife - Weina 1.8 test.mp3
> 
> 
> Project files attached!


I love your demos. - great job! My only comment is that I still prefer the tone of Solaria. I think that she is still the queen of these voices at this time. I only wish that she had a higher range, like Weina.


----------



## Vlzmusic

raidergale said:


> Using @Blancanegra's file I did something that shouldn't really be done.
> Here's Mai at 700% Emotional.
> 
> View attachment Mai700.mp3
> 
> 
> You can technically open any .svp file with notepad and manually change the vocal modes values to go beyond the 0-150% that's currently allowed. If you keep the edits relatively small (... so not 700% like I did here) the results can work really well. The further you push the values, the more artifacts and weird stuff will happen. 700% Emotional resulted in a lot of artifacts, and a totally different voice, but it was still an interesting test.


So the gender, or any other setting is not making this change in the timbre? Its only the Emotional 700%?


----------



## richiebee

Has anyone got MIDI in working inside Cubase? If so, how did you set up? I have my keyboard selected in SynthV, but it doesn't record (or even preview) any notes from my keyboard. In stand alone mode it works, but not as a VST. Just wondering if there's any special set up in Cubase itself required. Tried two different keyboards.


----------



## raidergale

Vlzmusic said:


> So the gender, or any other setting is not making this change in the timbre? Its only the Emotional 700%?


Gender is slightly raised (I think I used something like 0.05?), but most of the change is indeed coming from the extreme parameter change.


----------



## RogiervG

raidergale said:


> Using @Blancanegra's file I did something that shouldn't really be done.
> Here's Mai at 700% Emotional.
> 
> View attachment Mai700.mp3
> 
> 
> You can technically open any .svp file with notepad and manually change the vocal modes values to go beyond the 0-150% that's currently allowed. If you keep the edits relatively small (... so not 700% like I did here) the results can work really well. The further you push the values, the more artifacts and weird stuff will happen. 700% Emotional resulted in a lot of artifacts, and a totally different voice, but it was still an interesting test.


quite good.. but she sings too big (too full of a sound, like she has a huge mouth).. it needs a thinner character (more "girly"/younger, smaller mouth like voice, like the original). hard to explain.. but i think you understand nevertheless 
it feels like she has been pitched down even, but kept the timing (pitchshifting)


----------



## Vlzmusic

RogiervG said:


> quite good.. but she sings too big (too full of a sound, like she has a huge mouth).. it needs a thinner character (more "girly"/younger, smaller mouth like voice, like the original). hard to explain.. think you understand nevertheless
> it feels like she has been pitched down even, but kept the timing (pitchshifting)


Thats exactly the reason for my question, and seems to be the outcome of a wild Emotional setting. If controlled, this could give some great results...


----------



## zinct

richiebee said:


> Has anyone got MIDI in working inside Cubase? If so, how did you set up? I have my keyboard selected in SynthV, but it doesn't record (or even preview) any notes from my keyboard. In stand alone mode it works, but not as a VST. Just wondering if there's any special set up in Cubase itself required. Tried two different keyboards.


Same for me; working in standalone but not with the VST plugin inside Cubase. Also, tried Studio One and Cakewalk with the same results. Beta bug I guess?


----------



## David Cuny

richiebee said:


> What's missing from the VST version?


I don't _think _you can split the vocal into separate voiced and aspirated tracks.

But I'll be happy to find out I'm wrong about this.


----------



## mothershout

David Cuny said:


> I don't _think _you can split the vocal into separate voiced and aspirated tracks.
> 
> But I'll be happy to find out I'm wrong about this.


You can. I set that up in a Logic test project (with 1.7). You add extra channel strips to the mixer for the separate tracks.


----------



## Werty

The thread title should be update, I guess everybody now is interested in Synth V, not just vocaloid haters.


----------



## ScarletJerry

Werty said:


> The thread title should be update, I guess everybody now is interested in Synth V, not just vocaloid haters.


No No No! Please keep this a secret among us! We do not want the rest of the world to hear about this cool technology, at least not until we perfect it.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## NYC Composer

I would pay a good amount for a comprehensive, updated and maintained manual.


----------



## Blancanegra

richiebee said:


> What do you refer to as gold series?
> 
> Start of Ben is creepy good btw. Lowlife sounds more realistic than the original song. The process is now complete!!!


There is not much information about what Gold Series involve but it is easy to perceive the difference. The timbre is richer in nuances, as well as the intonation expressions, which are more varied. Currently there is only one voice bank, Weina. The singer is a recognized professional and has been recorded with the highest quality. Also a repertoire of songs have been recorded in both English and Chinese to achieve greater fidelity in pronunciation and intonation, and I think with the latest update we are starting to see the results of using all that data, benefiting the rest of voice banks (which is amazing).

Another different issue is whether each user likes the type of voice more or less according to their needs.


----------



## raidergale

Eleanor Forte's beta update with vocal modes has been released on Dreamtonic's archive for beta versions.

The vocal modes are a bit disappointing, a lot of them are _extremely_ subtle. Though I guess it can be changed via .SVP editing, boosting them over the limit 🤔


----------



## richiebee

Blancanegra said:


> There is not much information about what Gold Series involve but it is easy to perceive the difference. The timbre is richer in nuances, as well as the intonation expressions, which are more varied. Currently there is only one voice bank, Weina. The singer is a recognized professional and has been recorded with the highest quality. Also a repertoire of songs have been recorded in both English and Chinese to achieve greater fidelity in pronunciation and intonation, and I think with the latest update we are starting to see the results of using all that data, benefiting the rest of voice banks (which is amazing).
> 
> Another different issue is whether each user likes the type of voice more or less according to their needs.


Yes... it's funny. Weina is the least desirable voice type to me, although I did like that version of Hopelessly Devoted. Still a little on the fence as to whether to get it though. Natalie is the clear winner for the kind of songs I write for myself, but Solaria might take the cake for versatility, and well, Kevin is decent enough if I need a male voice... for now. . I might dig out one of my old Vocaloid projects that I did with Avanna back in 2012-ish, and do a comparison with the current gen. I know. there is no comparison. Might be fun though.


----------



## raidergale

Well, this came out of nowhere. New voice by Eclipsed Sounds, ASTERIAN. Here's a demo with the new voice alongside SOLARIA.



Quite a deep voice, I must say.
Preorders will open on the 18th on the official website


----------



## Markrs

raidergale said:


> Well, this came out of nowhere. New voice by Eclipsed Sounds, ASTERIAN. Here's a demo with the new voice alongside SOLARIA.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite a deep voice, I must say.



ASTERIAN is an upcoming English native AI vocalist that provides professional quality vocals for your projects whenever they are needed. Featuring a smooth bass range and emotive higher register, ASTERIAN makes a usually hard-to-find voice style easy to access any time. Users of ASTERIAN have control over all aspects of the melody and pitch and many other aspects of the voice like tension and breathiness, making ASTERIAN a vocalist with infinite possible applications.

ASTERIAN's voice source is professional voice actor and classically trained oktavist singer Eric Hollaway. Eric's deep and resonant tone has played a part in countless productions across a variety of genres and purposes - from engaging narration for commercials to his iconic role as part of the DOOM Eternal OST.



https://www.youtube.com/thepoetician





Pre-Orders for ASTERIAN will open on November 18th


----------



## David Cuny

raidergale said:


> Well, this came out of nowhere. New voice by Eclipsed Sounds, ASTERIAN.


Not the voice I _wanted_... but it certainly fills a niche that's been neglected, so it's a welcome addition!


----------



## Vlzmusic

raidergale said:


> Well, this came out of nowhere. New voice by Eclipsed Sounds, ASTERIAN. Here's a demo with the new voice alongside SOLARIA.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite a deep voice, I must say.
> Preorders will open on the 18th on the official website



Hmm, don't know what to say... I am not into pop, but I've got Kevin, and like what he does, so it's not just the style. Will have to hear more, hopefully this new idea of theirs will deliver...


----------



## NYC Composer

Severely Autotune it and thin it out, I think it will sound sort of urban.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Markrs said:


> ASTERIAN is an upcoming English native AI vocalist that provides professional quality vocals for your projects whenever they are needed. Featuring a smooth bass range and emotive higher register, ASTERIAN makes a usually hard-to-find voice style easy to access any time. Users of ASTERIAN have control over all aspects of the melody and pitch and many other aspects of the voice like tension and breathiness, making ASTERIAN a vocalist with infinite possible applications.
> 
> ASTERIAN's voice source is professional voice actor and classically trained oktavist singer Eric Hollaway. Eric's deep and resonant tone has played a part in countless productions across a variety of genres and purposes - from engaging narration for commercials to his iconic role as part of the DOOM Eternal OST.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/thepoetician
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pre-Orders for ASTERIAN will open on November 18th



What are the odds of a pre-order discount?... If there is one I may have to revise my November budget....


----------



## David Cuny

I suspect this had something to do with selecting Eric as the voice provider:



> Beyond those roles, over a million listeners have also fallen in love with Eric's incredible voice through his social media presence as thatbassvoice on TikTok and Youtube.



That, and he agreed to do it. 

It's a bit odd that the first demo song primarily shows off Solaria rather than Asterian. To my uneducated ears, the Asterian vocal sounds autotuned, but I can't tell if that's the mix and effects, or because the _SynthV_ vocoder is optimized for higher-pitched voices.

I agree with *Vlsmusic* *NYC Composer* that he's got a nice "urban" sound. But I suspect that place he'd land in most of my songs is in the bass register. So it would have been nice to hear him in that range. We've now got a fairly wide number of native English voices covering a pretty good pitch span:

Asterian
Kevin
Natalie
Eleanor Forte
Solaria
Anri
Plus, you can use the Gender parameter to convert some of the female voices to males.

Assuming that Astorian really can hit those bass notes, it would be cool to hear some choral music sung by the _SynthV_ choir.


----------



## Vlzmusic

David Cuny said:


> I agree with *Vlsmusic* that he's got a nice "urban" sound.


I wasn't the one who said that  

Besides, in my view its anything but nice. I typed the name on Youtube, stumbled upon some vocal warmup he is doing - its funny, but it sounded pretty much like the SynthV clip  

When you have those low notes, you can push on your vocal cords, and force them notes into the mic 🎤 and people would think "Wow, thats deep"... But "deep" is not supposed to be about the pitch, its about the timbre.

My most fancied American bass in this range (and whom I had the luck to hear onstage) is Alvy Powell.


----------



## richiebee

David Cuny said:


> Not the voice I _wanted_... but it certainly fills a niche that's been neglected, so it's a welcome addition!


I think the first demo is excellent. Not my style, but does show some versatility of it. I'd like ot hear a demo somewhere in between the really classical style, and the really DJ autotune style, to hear if there's any use for me there. As it is, it's not for me.


----------



## David Cuny

Vlzmusic said:


> I wasn't the one who said that


Sorry, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth! 

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised by the selection, but I guess 50,000,000 Elvis 1,000,000 Eric Hollaway fans on YouTube can't be wrong!


----------



## Tim_Wells

David Cuny said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth!
> 
> Honestly, I'm a bit surprised by the selection, but I guess 50,000,000 Elvis 1,000,000 Eric Hollaway fans on YouTube can't be wrong!


I was a little surprised too. I guess people were asking for low-voiced male singer, so that's what they gave us... 

What type of singer were you expecting?


----------



## richiebee

Tim_Wells said:


> What type of singer were you expecting?


Ian Dury. That's what we asked for and that's what I was expecting. This will LITERALLY break the internet.


----------



## Pier-V

@raidergale Sorry for the late reply, and thank you for the suggestion about checking the auto-pitch function as well! After the instant mode update I completely forgot about that function, but it's definitely worth investigating. I haven't had too much time in the last two days, but starting from tomorrow I'll make some experiments...

Oh, and btw:



raidergale said:


> Well, this came out of nowhere. New voice by Eclipsed Sounds, ASTERIAN. Here's a demo with the new voice alongside SOLARIA.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite a deep voice, I must say.
> Preorders will open on the 18th on the official website



OMG the hype is real. Now, this is _potentially_ insane, and yet another gamechanger. When I talked about having a bass voicebank a while ago it was mainly wishful thinking, and I would have never guessed something like that was actually already planned - and it will be programmed by the same people behind Solaria, which sounds really promising!

Up until now I didn't know anything about Eric Hollaway, but judging from what's written on the Eclipsed Sounds page he's not simply a bass, but rather a classically trained oktavist.
I agree on the fact that autotune is used in the demo song, but that's to be expected given the genre they choose. I think it was added in post-production and not part of the voicebank itself, since he seems pretty articulate overall. About the voice tone, I'm liking it so far - the only thing I noticed is a slight lack of resonance (weak fundamental etc.), but it could have the same explaination as above, since here's the voicebank is used melodically rather than as a bassline like it's typical in classical/orthodox music or in a Pentatonix style arrangment.

I'm seriously considering the idea of preordering this on day one, it all depends on what will be shown in the following demos - meanwhile, I've started listening to some real performances of the voice provider, and I found an interesting one already:


----------



## David Cuny

Tim_Wells said:


> What type of singer were you expecting?


Something that differed from what Dreamtonics already released. We've already got soft, teenage voices.

So a bit more a maturity to the voice, with a power in the mid/lower register.

It doesn't have to have "grit", because grit requires glottal effects. But something that doesn't sound like what's already available, and _especially_ something that doesn't sound like Kevin. Because Kevin already has "Kevin" covered. 

Asterian covers a lot of the items on the wish list - but I'm not hearing "strong" or "aggressive". And my co-worker told me she _literally fell asleep _listening to my last song. She meant it as a compliment, and I _did_ warn her not to operate any heavy machinery while listening to it. I've already got "smooth" and "gentle" in spades.


----------



## raidergale

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> What are the odds of a pre-order discount?... If there is one I may have to revise my November budget....


Looks like you might have to...


----------



## Hannes

I just got Synthesizer V Studio Pro along with Solaria

I think it's the first time, that I try a new library and I'm just stunned! What is this witchcraft and why haven't I heard of it earlier? It will be a very useful tool for me, whenever a client is asking for a demo!

Just a few exciting thoughts that came to my mind:

1) Wouldn't it be awesome if there would be a way to integrate it into Dorico/Sibelius? I mean, the lyrics, dynamics and expression are already there in the sheet music. It could be an addon like Noteperformer.

2) Did somebody already try to create a small choir with it? Like 3 Sopranos in unison, 3 Alto etc... I'd be very curious if that could work. It could be like a much better version of the EW Wordbuilder

3) This rendering technique they use (well, I still believe it's some kind of sorcery), wouldn't it also work with instruments? Imagine typing in notes + feeling/emotion and it renders out a solo Violin Performance, without the need of tweaking different Midi CCs.


----------



## cedricm

raidergale said:


> Well, this came out of nowhere. New voice by Eclipsed Sounds, ASTERIAN. Here's a demo with the new voice alongside SOLARIA.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite a deep voice, I must say.
> Preorders will open on the 18th on the official website



The use of Autotune is unfortunate. Impossible to assess the quality of the synthetic voice.
To me, as is, it sounds like crap.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Hannes said:


> 3) This rendering technique they use (well, I still believe it's some kind of sorcery), wouldn't it also work with instruments? Imagine typing in notes + feeling/emotion and it renders out a solo Violin Performance, without the need of tweaking different Midi CCs.


Yes, this year has put instrumental VI scene in a silly light. After decades of discussions on how human voice is the most difficult to recreate, and strings holding the second place etc. Now we have the human voice recreated from 26 MB database, up to identical frequency content to the real thing. 

But because SynthV comes from "Vocaloid" scene, its progress will be largely ignored by the major VI devs for some time. I suspect we gonna see "Synth V instruments" only if some small aspiring fella will either license the tech from Dreamtonics, or achieve the similar success with machine learning himself.


----------



## Hannes

Vlzmusic said:


> Yes, this year has put instrumental VI scene in a silly light. After decades of discussions on how human voice is the most difficult to recreate, and strings holding the second place etc. Now we have the human voice recreated from 26 MB database, up to identical frequency content to the real thing.


Ja that's right, if I think about sample libraries we use, there is really not that much groundbreaking new technologies. I feel like the amount of samples just gets bigger, but IMO it just creates more problems (phasing, bumpy legato etc...). Of course there are great companies like SWAM, but still it's quite far from the "real deal" and not as easy to use.



Vlzmusic said:


> But because SynthV comes from "Vocaloid" scene, its progress will be largely ignored by the major VI devs for some time. I suspect we gonna see "Synth V instruments" only if some small aspiring fella will either license the tech from Dreamtonics, or achieve the similar success with machine learning himself.


I'm also wondering if the engine can be used on instruments in a similar way. I guess things like playing an expressive Vibrato with a solo violin might be quite hard to reproduce synthetically


----------



## soulofsound

It seems we all some body in Kevin's lower register.


Hannes said:


> I just got Synthesizer V Studio Pro along with Solaria
> 
> I think it's the first time, that I try a new library and I'm just stunned! What is this witchcraft and why haven't I heard of it earlier? It will be a very useful tool for me, whenever a client is asking for a demo!
> 
> Just a few exciting thoughts that came to my mind:
> 
> 1) Wouldn't it be awesome if there would be a way to integrate it into Dorico/Sibelius? I mean, the lyrics, dynamics and expression are already there in the sheet music. It could be an addon like Noteperformer.
> 
> 2) Did somebody already try to create a small choir with it? Like 3 Sopranos in unison, 3 Alto etc... I'd be very curious if that could work. It could be like a much better version of the EW Wordbuilder
> 
> 3) This rendering technique they use (well, I still believe it's some kind of sorcery), wouldn't it also work with instruments? Imagine typing in notes + feeling/emotion and it renders out a solo Violin Performance, without the need of tweaking different Midi CCs.


There are choir demos in the thread. Really good ones. There is also a demo from Eclipsed with Solaria singing Fleet Foxes polyphonically, which i think sounds cool. 

But some of the choir demos in the thread sound much better still.

Yes, to me it feels like sorcery, too. It is one of the most amazing pieces of software i ever encountered.


----------



## Werty

Hannes said:


> This rendering technique they use (well, I still believe it's some kind of sorcery), wouldn't it also work with instruments? Imagine typing in notes + feeling/emotion and it renders out a solo Violin Performance, without the need of tweaking different Midi CCs.


Or imagine playing piano, and it renders the chords into something like the real chords from an acoustic piano (now it's impossible to sample all chords for any vst, so they are just layering single notes).


----------



## ScarletJerry

The next generation of this technology will allow your computer to listen to a series of songs by singers who are no longer with us (Sinatra, Olivia Newton-John, etc.) and replicate the sound of their voices. Also, what will happen when someone creates a song with this technology, and it becomes a hit and the virtual singer of the song is nominated for "vocalist of the year?" It's going to happen someday.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## baggage

ScarletJerry said:


> The next generation of this technology will allow your computer to listen to a series of songs by singers who are no longer with us (Sinatra, Olivia Newton-John, etc.) and replicate the sound of their voices. Also, what will happen when someone creates a song with this technology, and it becomes a hit and the virtual singer of the song is nominated for "vocalist of the year?" It's going to happen someday.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


The latter has happened in Japan at least over a decade ago with the former Vocaloid now Virtual Singer using Crypton Future Media's own Piapro Engine, Hatsune Miku, The former already exists with sites like uberduck ai , where you can use community made Singing Text to speech versions of Michael Jackson, Buddy Holly, Freddie Mercury, Nat King Cole and more, though to varying amounts of success

There's also voice morphing/changing technologies like this example


----------



## mothershout

Werty said:


> Or imagine playing piano, and it renders the chords into something like the real chords from an acoustic piano (now it's impossible to sample all chords for any vst, so they are just layering single notes).


Look at modelling pianos like Modartt's Pianoteq (which I use). That models the interaction between strings; for example, you can hold down low notes to allow the strings to ring sympathetically with higher notes. I gave up using any other piano VST after buying it.


----------



## mothershout

Hannes said:


> 2) Did somebody already try to create a small choir with it? Like 3 Sopranos in unison, 3 Alto etc... I'd be very curious if that could work. It could be like a much better version of the EW Wordbuilder


I've used Solaria, Weina and (more recently) Natalie for six- and eight-voice choirs of vocals in a couple of tracks. I find that the different voices work much better than duplicating the same voice (even with different AI retakes of that same voice). I've genuinely had goosebumps listening to some of this unaccompanied...


----------



## Werty

mothershout said:


> Look at modelling pianos like Modartt's Pianoteq (which I use). That models the interaction between strings; for example, you can hold down low notes to allow the strings to ring sympathetically with higher notes. I gave up using any other piano VST after buying it.


I know but chords sound is a total different thing. Sympathetic resonance is much easier to achieve, many vst are capable of that, not just pianoteq. But with chords is impossible because you have billions of combinations.


----------



## berndfri

mothershout said:


> I've used Solaria, Weina and (more recently) Natalie for six- and eight-voice choirs of vocals in a couple of tracks. I find that the different voices work much better than duplicating the same voice (even with different AI retakes of that same voice). I've genuinely had goosebumps listening to some of this unaccompanied...


Would love to hear that!


----------



## jvsax

The level of realism in this latest beta release is pretty astonishing! I re-did this tune's vocals and all I did was turn off Instant Mode and adjust the Auto-Pitch Tuning expressiveness slider. There was one note that needed a different expressiveness value, and that was it:

_Skyline_


----------



## mothershout

berndfri said:


> Would love to hear that!


One of the tracks is linked in another post in this thread, so at the risk of being accused of self-promotion…. 
Post in thread 'Synthesizer V - Vocaloid haters might want to check this'
https://vi-control.net/community/th...-might-want-to-check-this.115973/post-5189230


----------



## raidergale

ScarletJerry said:


> The next generation of this technology will allow your computer to listen to a series of songs by singers who are no longer with us (Sinatra, Olivia Newton-John, etc.) and replicate the sound of their voices. Also, what will happen when someone creates a song with this technology, and it becomes a hit and the virtual singer of the song is nominated for "vocalist of the year?" It's going to happen someday.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


Recreating the voice of deceased people already happened with VOCALOID. Yamaha made private voicebanks replicating Hitoshi Ueki, hide and Misora Hibari in 2011, 2014 and 2019







The fact that Yamaha made a very believable recreation of Misora Hibari's voice using AI technology in 2019 is why I was so disappointed with VOCALOID6's AI technology released last month, which I think sounds a lot worse than that last example.


----------



## S-B-L

I'm also into that rabbit hole...
Got SynthV + Natali, downloaded and installed it.
Under "licenses and updates" it shows me synthesizer v studio pro edition 1.7.1
when i click on "check for updates" it doesn't show me the new StudioV version...

how do i get the newest version?


----------



## raidergale

S-B-L said:


> I'm also into that rabbit hole...
> Got SynthV + Natali, downloaded and installed it.
> Under "licenses and updates" it shows me synthesizer v studio pro edition 1.7.1
> when i click on "check for updates" it doesn't show me the new StudioV version...
> 
> how do i get the newest version?


The 1.8 update is currently in beta, so it won't show up if you try to update the normal way.
You need to manually download it from the news article on Dreamtonics' website.
You'll also find a link for beta versions of the various voicebanks, so you can download Natalie's 103b1 beta update as well. If you bought the Pro version of SynthV you can also download a free database, Mai, from that same news article. It's a Japanese voicebank, but her English is surprisingly decent using SynthV's cross language synthesis option.


----------



## S-B-L

Ah, ok.
I bought the Pro Version SynthV and tried to install Mai but SynthV said:

Install Package
"This package requires the latest Synthesizer V Studio"

So I thought I could update without getting a Beta Version...


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma




----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

So if Asterian's regular price ends up being the same as Solaria's it will be $89.99, preorder saves $10. No mention of the 25% discount for buying both only being for a limited time (so far). (79.99+89.99)*.75 = 127.49 for bundle at preorder price, (2*89.99)*.75 = 134.99 at non-preorder price, 134.99- 127.49 = $7.5 savings, so 7.5/134.99 ≈ 5.56% discount for preorder bundle vs non-preorder bundle.


----------



## ScarletJerry

Does anyone know if the singers get any kind of royalty from the sale of their vocal libraries? I know that several VST companies do share profits with performers.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Anthony

ScarletJerry said:


> Does anyone know if the singers get any kind of royalty from the sale of their vocal libraries? I know that several VST companies do share profits with performers.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


Interesting question.

I would guess, _no_ because with Synth V you're not getting an actual performance -- i.e. a loop -- but rather just notes (albeit imbued with the timbre of the singer's voice). 

In contract, for vocal libraries that _do_ include loops, those singers may receive compensation for what constitutes an actual performance (i.e. a melodic sequence of notes).


----------



## ScarletJerry

I hear what you’re saying, but samples are just notes, not loops. I bet Weina costs more because they are paying the performer. I may reach out to Dreamtonics to see if they will share this information.


----------



## David Cuny

ScarletJerry said:


> I hear what you’re saying, but samples are just notes, not loops. I bet Weina costs more because they are paying the performer. I may reach out to Dreamtonics to see if they will share this information.


Weina costs more because it's one of their premier libraries. That means there's more data collected for more pitches, as well as data on the singing style.

Dreamtonics is exceedingly tight-lipped about the details of their costs. They will require you to sign an NDA before giving any details.

Still, I've never heard a hint that the performers would be getting any royalties.


----------



## raidergale

New Asterian demo, preorders will be live in ~10 minutes. Full voicebank will be out on December 2nd, with 7 different vocal modes. This demo uses a mix of Open, Theatrical and Passionate.
EDIT: preorders are now live on their shop


----------



## Vlzmusic

raidergale said:


> New Asterian demo, preorders will be live in ~10 minutes. Full voicebank will be out on December 2nd, with 7 different vocal modes. This demo uses a mix of Open, Theatrical and Passionate.
> EDIT: preorders are now live on their shop



Wow, thats Synth V for ya....

I went to Youtube, to check the voice provider again, and yes, he sings pretty much with the same uninspiring delivery, but in real world it all gets covered with the meaty bass timbre, which was probably absent in the super dry recordings they usually make for these purposes, so the machine heard only the direct sound, and that what it gives us back....

Astoundingly interesting, but what a wasted opportunity


----------



## bosone

I listened to the demo but I must say I'm not impressed by the song
The voice is absolutely realistic but it doesn't suit well with the demo genre at all. In some parts it even seems out of tune for my taste
I will probably end up buying it but metal and rock are not the main field of Asteria, for now...


----------



## Phillip Dixon

bosone said:


> I listened to the demo but I must say I'm not impressed by the song
> The voice is absolutely realistic but it doesn't suit well with the demo genre at all. In some parts it even seems out of tune for my taste
> I will probably end up buying it but metal and rock are not the main field of Asteria, for now...


----------



## Phillip Dixon

Sounds bloody awful
No relation between the vocal and track,


----------



## bosone

Phillip Dixon said:


> Sounds bloody awful
> No relation between the vocal and track,


on a second listening, yes, it is terrible both artistically and in production.


----------



## Markrs

I couldn't listen to the whole track, as I just didn't like it, and I felt the voice was all wrong for it.


----------



## J. H. Smith

Awful presentation. I couldn't listen to the end, either. 

On the upside, I got instant confirmation that Astrian is _far from any_… er, voice in the style of, say, Brett Sparks, suitable for roots, blues and country ballads. Yeech!


----------



## Vlzmusic

J. H. Smith said:


> Awful presentation. I couldn't listen to the end, either.
> 
> On the upside, I got instant confirmation that Astrian is _far from any_… er, voice in the style of, say, Brett Sparks, suitable for roots, blues and country ballads. Yeech!


I hope it has some Gospel side to it, given the pronunciation and the background... Vocal modes have some optimistic names - I will be ready to turn a deaf ear to the timbre I dislike, as long as it can sound authentic...


----------



## ReelToLogic

raidergale said:


> New Asterian demo, preorders will be live in ~10 minutes. Full voicebank will be out on December 2nd, with 7 different vocal modes. This demo uses a mix of Open, Theatrical and Passionate.



Thanks for posting that demo. I'm sure they did a great job creating this new voice bank, but the demo convinced me not to buy it. The tone is just not something I can see myself using. I wish that they had made a male voice that was the male equivalent of Solaria. Solaria is very versatile and can fit a wide range of music, but I don't feel that way about Asterian.


----------



## gedlig

Wish they did a demo like this, where he sang the super low in the Doom eternal soundtrack. If I'd get this voicebank, it would be for this exact purpose.


----------



## richiebee

I think it has potential, but certainly the demos are not doing it any favors. I think I'll hold off for a bit and see what other songs do for it.


----------



## bosone

richiebee said:


> I think it has potential, but certainly the demos are not doing it any favors. I think I'll hold off for a bit and see what other songs do for it.


10$ discount is not a great deal...


----------



## raidergale

I personally think the voice sounds really good, and SynthV handles lower registers better than expected (they've always been a _very_ sore point in singing synthesizers), but yeah, I don't think the demo itself was the right choice. It's a lot less processed than the first teaser with Solaria, so you can get a better sense of how the voice sounds, but I wouldn't use it in this particular genre.
Curious to know what all his vocal modes will be.

As an aside, not sure if it's a glitch or what, but if you add two Asterian (or two Solaria, for that matter) to the shopping cart you'll get the 25% discount. So if you joint buy with someone you can get Asterian for 60$ or Solaria for 67.50$


----------



## madfloyd

I hate this voice. Yuck.


----------



## soulofsound

I wouldn't have suspected Eclipsed Sounds releasing a dreadful demo. Remarkably the demo isn't in tune either.

I'm sure the voice will be great in other situations, maybe hip hop and styles like it.


----------



## richiebee

soulofsound said:


> I wouldn't have suspected Eclipsed Sounds releasing a dreadful demo. Remarkably the demo isn't in tune either.
> 
> I'm sure the voice will be great in other situations, maybe hip hop and styles like it.


I think the first demo was really good. It was just a stupid idea to release a demo with the autotune phenomenon, since pitch deviation is pretty much what makes SynthV such winner.

The production quality on the second one was terrible and the chosen genre was a bit of a head scratcher. Hoping they're going to scramble for something else.


----------



## mothershout

soulofsound said:


> I wouldn't have suspected Eclipsed Sounds releasing a dreadful demo. Remarkably the demo isn't in tune either.
> 
> I'm sure the voice will be great in other situations, maybe hip hop and styles like it.


I have no real idea how this voice would sound; both demos seemed to be really odd choices. I'd have preferred even an example of singing scales with different vocal modes. Thus I won't personally be pre-ordering.

But it's good to see Eclipsed Sounds releasing more English voices!


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Vlzmusic said:


> Wow, thats Synth V for ya....
> 
> I went to Youtube, to check the voice provider again, and yes, he sings pretty much with the same uninspiring delivery, but in real world it all gets covered with the meaty bass timbre, which was probably absent in the super dry recordings they usually make for these purposes, so the machine heard only the direct sound, and that what it gives us back....
> 
> Astoundingly interesting, but what a wasted opportunity


The instruments in the demo have so much bass in them that they're probably drowning out the best part of his voice.

There are a few parts that sound good though. Particularly "for your sake" iirc.


----------



## baggage

Here, I isolated the vocals from the demo using Ultimate Vocal Remover, So the orchestration of the song doesn't muddy what you think of the vocal. Personally, I really like the tone! I don't get the hate, but I do understand that since the people making the Demo Songs are part of the long-existing Vocal Synth Fandom they're gonna be a bit different from what people here would find preferable 

View attachment Asterian Ad Astra Isolated Vocal using Ultimate Vocal Remover.mp3


----------



## Vlzmusic

baggage said:


> Here, I isolated the vocals from the demo using Ultimate Vocal Remover, So the orchestration of the song doesn't muddy what you think of the vocal. Personally, I really like the tone! I don't get the hate, but I do understand that since the people making the Demo Songs are part of the long-existing Vocal Synth Fandom they're gonna be a bit different from what people here would find preferable
> 
> View attachment Asterian Ad Astra Isolated Vocal using Ultimate Vocal Remover.mp3


Its never a hate. But if your great result magnified anything - it surely brought out some uninspiring qualities in the singer, and I am bedazzled of how intelligently Synth V picked it up. I will surely get the product since its probably gonna be the only bass voice for some time, I am just sorry they haven't used a more accomplished voice provider for such opportunity.


----------



## Vlzmusic

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> The instruments in the demo have so much bass in them that they're probably drowning out the best part of his voice.


The marvelous thing about Synth V in this case, is that it picked the bothersome "eurgh" shape the singer keeps his jaw and glottal muscles in, while singing. It coexists with the meaty bass tone, which in turn needs some room reflections to sound beefy, and since most of the examples online happen in small spaces, there is certain coloration to them. 

As Synth V voices are usually presented in a dry, and clinical way, it will inevitably sound different, as if you hear the same singer in anechoic room or something...


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma




----------



## Phillip Dixon

I'm waiting for these 
Emotions to fade, this bloke can't hold a note


----------



## [Alpha]-0mega-

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


>



Meh. I think I agree with the others. The demos don't seem to sell this. Bit concerned that his "comfortable" vocal range will be too low to sound good on most regular songs. (Though I'm sure some of the people in this thread can work some magic to make it sound amazing, like the songs using Kevin that have been posted here)

I really wished for a male Solaria, or a "Kevin, but by a more professional singer". This is not that, so far.


----------



## J. H. Smith

He's constantly dropping end consonants. e.g "by your si[d]e". Maybe a tuning or a diction setting? Hopefully…

From what I've heard so far, Asterian's voice might fit musical song numbers, like something by Andrew Lloyd Webber. But that's not exactly on my plate…

OTOH, I wouldn't mind a pure text to speech Asterian variant, for video narration, mainly. Maybe eventually a Synthesizer N from Dreamtonics? I'd stand in line to buy, that's for sure.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

While these demos aren't that great, it sounds like they could be tweaked to be really good. I'm optimistic.


----------



## Vlzmusic

J. H. Smith said:


> OTOH, I wouldn't mind a pure text to speech Asterian variant, for video narration, mainly. Maybe eventually a Synthesizer N from Dreamtonics? I'd stand in line to buy, that's for sure.


I have used Synth V voices for speech, and with a great success. Its not automatic, but has much more room for experimenting with a pitch, resulting in artistic read aloud, unlike anything you get with regular TTS.


----------



## Vlzmusic

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> While these demos aren't that great, it sounds like they could be tweaked to be really good. I'm optimistic.


The third demo got me more optimistic as well, sounding less strident, and more pleasant overall, even if more pop. I am preordering 100%, even if just for the sake of thinkering with it.  80$, basically a next gen video game price.


----------



## zinct

Vlzmusic said:


> I have used Synth V voices for speech, and with a great success. Its not automatic, but has much more room for experimenting with a pitch, resulting in artistic read aloud, unlike anything you get with regular TTS.


I'm curious to know how you use Synth V for speech. Any tips on how to achieve this? Thanks


----------



## Vlzmusic

zinct said:


> I'm curious to know how you use Synth V for speech. Any tips on how to achieve this? Thanks


It was in March-April, so I guess it will sound much better now, but it was in pre "Instant Mode" days, so I would turn it off today.

I was making either one long note per phrase, or per few words, using only one pitch (in the middle-low range) drawing in "talking" kind of pitches by hand (like when your pitch goes up on question etc. ) and working a lot with the syllable parameters on the right tab - length, strength etc.


----------



## zinct

Vlzmusic said:


> It was in March-April, so I guess it will sound much better now, but it was in pre "Instant Mode" days, so I would turn it off today.
> 
> I was making either one long note per phrase, or per few words, using only one pitch (in the middle-low range) drawing in "talking" kind of pitches by hand (like when your pitch goes up on question etc. ) and working a lot with the syllable parameters on the right tab - length, strength etc.


Thanks for the information. I will do some experimenting. I was all set to buy speechelo but I will hold off for now.


----------



## raidergale

J. H. Smith said:


> OTOH, I wouldn't mind a pure text to speech Asterian variant, for video narration, mainly. Maybe eventually a Synthesizer N from Dreamtonics? I'd stand in line to buy, that's for sure.


Dreamtonics did make a speech synthesizer, Voicepeak, but at the moment it only supports Japanese. I think they expressed interest in cross-lingual features like SynthV, and possibly native voices too, but nothing much happened on either front.

New voices for it were announced just last week. They sound good, but again, Japanese only :(


----------



## Vlzmusic

zinct said:


> Thanks for the information. I will do some experimenting. I was all set to buy speechelo buy I will hold off for now.


Please note, that anything you gonna get from Synth V this way, will sound very theatrical, and each phrase will need a lot of tweaking. If you need more text, or voiceover rather than "acting", AI based TTS engines should do the job better and easier.


----------



## zinct

raidergale said:


> Dreamtonics did make a speech synthesizer, Voicepeak, but at the moment it only supports Japanese. I think they expressed interest in cross-lingual features like SynthV, and possibly native voices too, but nothing much happened on either front.
> 
> New voices for it were announced just last week. They sound good, but again, Japanese only :(


Thank you for the information. They do sound great. Let's hope they come out with an English version; it would surely be a great earner for them?


----------



## gedlig

Damn it, why all the pop demos. Hoping someone who buys it will do a super low note demo 😅


----------



## Trash Panda

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


>



So he can kinda do Barry White with some work. Tempting. 🤔


----------



## JimDiGritz

Hi everyone - I've just had to reinstall SynthV after building a new PC. Everything worked as expected (I did deactivate Synth V Pro and the Voices on the old PC first...)

However I seem to be missing the SOLARIA Dictionary. I can;t see any reference to it on the Eclipsed Sounds website and the install page just downloads the solaria-installer-v106.svpk voice pack file.

If I recall there used to be a SOLARIA dictionary in the fly out panel. Now it just shows (use program defaults) - I'm pretty sure I dragged it in when I first installed SOLARIA on my old PC in the summer...


----------



## ScarletJerry

I agree with many have said. I’m hoping that other demos will make this voice shine, but I’m not ready to purchase yet.

This still remains the gold standard demo for male vocals in Synth V (in my opinion):

Bring him home by @Blancanegra

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## David Cuny

I'll get Asterian eventually, but he's not high on my priority list. He's certainly not part of my Black Friday budget. 

I'd still like to hear how he fits into the current English voicebanks, since his main use for me is likely to be bass harmonies. I suspect running the aspiration track through some distortion will add some "grit" if I really need it. But that's unlikely, since background vocals are all about blend.

I have no doubt other voices in the pipeline at Dreamtonics and Eclipsed Sounds, but I suspect they aren't going to announce them ahead of time, to prevent undercutting demand for their current voices.


----------



## bosone

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


>



it's always me or even this demo is a bad showcase for this voice?
it even seems out of tune.
maybe there's too much vibrato

i'm not impressed at all by these demos.


----------



## Markrs

bosone said:


> it even seems out of tune.


Thank God it isn’t only me. When I was listening to it I thought some of it was out of tune, but I thought it must be me as this is programmed in so how can it be out of tune.


----------



## richiebee

In fairness to those who've made demos, it must be quite hard to pull something out using beta version of the voicepack, but yeah, they certainly don't seem to get professionals to do it. I'm sure that the whole operation at Eclipsed is small and budgets are too. So better demos will emerge. I have confidence in Eclipsed, but I haven't seen anything that makes it a must buy for me.


----------



## David Cuny

richiebee said:


> I'm sure that the whole operation at Eclipsed is small and budgets are too. So better demos will emerge.


According to their "About Us" page, the team only consists of four people. I believe one of the original founding members had to drop out.

According to this thread (most of which comes from tweets), Eclipsed Sounds:

Are still working on his auto pitch tuning and instant mode.
Are committed to diversifying the lineup of available voice types
Added a new team member to help with workload associated with ASTERIAN.
Will release a "Lite" version of ASTERIAN


----------



## requiemdissident

ongaku said:


> I don't think anyone posted this yet (duet of solaria and asterian):
> 
> Sounds like they tried to demo it using the wrong genres of music (i.e. not the best for metal)




This was already posted here



raidergale said:


> Well, this came out of nowhere. New voice by Eclipsed Sounds, ASTERIAN. Here's a demo with the new voice alongside SOLARIA.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite a deep voice, I must say.
> Preorders will open on the 18th on the official website


----------



## Blancanegra

richiebee said:


> In fairness to those who've made demos, it must be quite hard to pull something out using beta version of the voicepack, but yeah, they certainly don't seem to get professionals to do it. I'm sure that the whole operation at Eclipsed is small and budgets are too. So better demos will emerge. I have confidence in Eclipsed, but I haven't seen anything that makes it a must buy for me.


I think we should all agree on that. I would not have bought Kevin if I had to rate the voice by the first demos or user songs released.

In the absence of more professional demos, they could publish various simple improvised singing exercises, nothing risky but showing the qualities of the voice (timbre throughout the register, singing style, vocal modes). Fast notes, long notes, up-down scales, etc. They are easy exercises to do.

Asterian isn't for me, but I think it's a good voice for his vocal range.


----------



## Blancanegra

ScarletJerry said:


> I agree with many have said. I’m hoping that other demos will make this voice shine, but I’m not ready to purchase yet.
> 
> This still remains the gold standard demo for male vocals in Synth V (in my opinion):
> 
> Bring him home by @Blancanegra
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


Now is when I feel a bit embarrassed!
I wish I had more knowledge about classical style vibratos, although in the case of musicals it is a bit free or more flexible, isn't it?
From the comment I can infer that you are waiting for some opera voice to be released. Including me, how many users of this forum expect the same?

I just realized that I haven't published the project file of that demo, I'll do it later from home.


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> I have no doubt other voices in the pipeline at Dreamtonics and Eclipsed Sounds, but I suspect they aren't going to announce them ahead of time, to prevent undercutting demand for their current voices.


And then, Dreamtonics announced new Chinesse vocals....


----------



## RMatute

Has anyone tried the free Izotope Vocal Doubler (https://www.izotope.com/en/products/vocal-doubler.html) with SynthV? 

Or considered something like SynthV-->Izotope Nectar Vocal Suite? Likely overkill, I suspect.

And not just for vocal doubling but also for small vocal ensembles like: 
-Bob Marley I-Threes, 
-Ray Charles Raylettes, 
-Aretha Franklin or Joe Cocker 3-person female backing vocal group? 

Not just for harmonies with the lead vocal, but also for call-and-response, which leaves the backing vocals rather exposed.

I know SynthV doesn't quite have the right female voices just yet. Although, some of @Blancanegra's accomplishments with female vocalists might be nearly good-enough. Thoughts?


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

David Cuny said:


> I'll get Asterian eventually, but he's not high on my priority list. He's certainly not part of my Black Friday budget.
> 
> I'd still like to hear how he fits into the current English voicebanks, since his main use for me is likely to be bass harmonies. I suspect running the aspiration track through some distortion will add some "grit" if I really need it. But that's unlikely, since background vocals are all about blend.
> 
> I have no doubt other voices in the pipeline at Dreamtonics and Eclipsed Sounds, but I suspect they aren't going to announce them ahead of time, to prevent undercutting demand for their current voices.


I'm thinking of dropping the Tallinn male choir from my BF/Xmas budget to make more room for the Asterian preorder. (Some of you may be suitably horrified. 🤣 I'm sure the tuning will get better, but I plan on using PRAAT a lot anyway, especially since I can just sing in the parts myself.) Instead of Tallinn I might use the OT voucher towards the Ark 2 Basso Profondo Choir to go with Asterian, if any of his vocal modes seem to go well with it....

But I'll definitely wait until BF to see what my other options are.

Incidentally I tried Waves Clarity Vx on Weina---it makes her brighter but doesn't do much of anything about artifacts (in my testing at least). But Weina is bilingual to begin with, so IDK if it would be any better on cross-lingual noise.


----------



## Blancanegra

A small Bossa Nova test done with Weina, showing her fantastic breathy tone:

The look of love (Dusty Springfield) - Weina 104b1, SV 1.8.0b1
View attachment The look of love - Weina 1.8 test.mp3


Vocal modes (quiet part):
Delicate 150%
Tender 20%

Tension: -0.6
Breathness: 0.3

Very low expresiveness pitch values to reduce vibrato. I would have liked to spend more time smoothing out some syllables even more with the Voicing parameter. I used loudness as deesser.

I also had some time to tweak Bring Him Home making the vibratos deeper and more dramatic, maybe very exaggerated and out of place at times.

Bring him home (Les Misérables) - Kevin 107b1, SV 1.8.0b1
View attachment Bring him home - Kevin 1.8 test.mp3


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> And then, Dreamtonics announced new Chinese vocals....


This is a teaser in the form of a poem - much like the teasers that certain companies post to _this_ site when they post a picture and zero details. 

I'm still hoping for a mature native English male voice Real Soon Now, but with BF only days away, I'm sort of glad I don't have yet _another_ decision to make about the budget.

Besides, the pre-sales price of these voicebanks isn't really that huge.


----------



## mothershout

RMatute said:


> Has anyone tried the free Izotope Vocal Doubler (https://www.izotope.com/en/products/vocal-doubler.html) with SynthV?
> 
> Or considered something like SynthV-->Izotope Nectar Vocal Suite?


I have the iZotope tools, and I've used Nectar on all SynthV vocals in the last song I did and the one I'm working on. I find it a good way to get a starting point for compression and EQ, and rarely need to tweak it much.

I'm currently finishing up a piece with an 8-voice section at the end, and I've tested Logic Pro's Ensemble on it... the results are a bit mixed. Although it does sound like more voices, there's audible modulation. Vocal Doubler is much more subtle (used on an aux bus with the amount controlled via a send), but it certainly *sounds* like more voices, and I hear no modulation at all. Nice.



> I know SynthV doesn't quite have the right female voices just yet.


Well, I'd say that depends on the style of music you're writing. For what I'm doing, a set of Solaria, Natalie and Weina works *very* well 🙂


----------



## mothershout

David Cuny said:


> Besides, the pre-sales price of these voicebanks isn't really that huge.


Which makes it more difficult to deny the urge to add just one more voice... I must be strong and wait to buy Kevin. The lower harmonies can wait a few more days...


----------



## David Cuny

RMatute said:


> Has anyone tried the free Izotope Vocal Doubler (https://www.izotope.com/en/products/vocal-doubler.html) with SynthV?


Yes, it works well. To make these voices play together well, it helps to put a vocal doubler on the other voices, if only to shift the timing and pitch.



Blancanegra said:


> A small Bossa Nova test done with Weina, showing her fantastic breathy tone:


The singing fabulous! 

Unfortunately, there are some vowels that she just can't say right. For example, her */uh/* comes out as */uw/*, and her */ih/* comes out as */iy/*.

I see you're replaced the */uh/* with */ah/* in some places. The phoneme */ao/* is fairly neutral so can make a usable replacement.

I've posted this as an issue in the Dreamtonics forum. I don't know if it's an issue with quality control where people just don't hear it (they might not have any native English speakers), with the training algorithm, or with the training data that they are using.


----------



## raidergale

David Cuny said:


> This is a teaser in the form of a poem - much like the teasers that certain companies post to _this_ site when they post a picture and zero details.
> 
> I'm still hoping for a mature native English male voice Real Soon Now, but with BF only days away, I'm sort of glad I don't have yet _another_ decision to make about the budget.
> 
> Besides, the pre-sales price of these voicebanks isn't really that huge.


Yeah, Dreamtonics often announces their Chinese voices in the form of a poem, with a demo releasing the following day. This poem is about "harsher" things (broken guitar plectrums, numb fingers after strumming, broken drum sticks), so I assume they're going for a stronger sound this time. Unclear if it's going to be a male or female voice, I guess we'll need to wait until tomorrow for that.


----------



## David Cuny

Regarding the new Chinese vocal, here's the translation found on the SynthV forum:



> Play the strings until the plectrum breaks.
> Hitting the keys with force even if the fingertips are numb.
> Hammering the drums even if the sticks break.
> Singing with all my might, even if my throat cries for blood.
> In the spotlight, I look at all beings.
> In front of the microphone, all the sounds will avoid me.
> I command the notes on the stage.
> I’m in charge of the atmosphere when the song starts.
> On November 24, 2022 at 16:00, Dreamtonics invites you to listen to a new song. Our shout is in the song.



Sounds like it could be a rock voice. If so, it'll be interesting to see how well _SynthV_ handles that timbre.


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> The singing fabulous!
> 
> Unfortunately, there are some vowels that she just can't say right. For example, her */uh/* comes out as */uw/*, and her */ih/* comes out as */iy/*.
> 
> I see you're replaced the */uh/* with */ah/* in some places. The phoneme */ao/* is fairly neutral so can make a usable replacement.
> 
> I've posted this as an issue in the Dreamtonics forum. I don't know if it's an issue with quality control where people just don't hear it (they might not have any native English speakers), with the training algorithm, or with the training data that they are using.


Thank you for the compliment!
I think 90% of it is due to the Gold voice, which has timbre qualities and intonations that the standard voices don't have.

About the vowels.... I'm not native and I notice the difference, but because it's very evident! Also the transition of diphthongs /ay/-/ay/ is not well defined (e.g. "my eyes"). I hope they can fix it.

I don't remember replacing /uh/ with /ah/... did I?


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> About the vowels.... I'm not native and I notice the difference, but because it's very evident! Also the transition of diphthongs /ay/-/ay/ is not well defined (e.g. "my eyes"). I hope they can fix it.
> 
> I don't remember replacing /uh/ with /ah/... did I?


I'm too lazy to check the original, so I'll give you the credit.

While vowel-to-vowel transitions aren't always great, I find them sometimes helpful to shape a vowel sound.

For example, the */ih/* is fine in _"seal it *with* a kiss"_.

But I went ahead and changed */w ih dh/* to */w eh ih dh/* with a _really _short and weak */eh/* that helped take some of the bite out of it. It sounded better to me like that. 

YMMV.


----------



## RMatute

> The look of love (Dusty Springfield) - Weina 104b1, SV 1.8.0b1


@Blancanegra, very nice job, indeed!

I'd like to point out to anyone interested that this apparently light-weight song, _The Look of Love_,
was transformed into a powerful emotional and musical statement by The Shirley Horn Trio, live at the 1994 Monterey Jazz Festival. The first time I heard it, around 2005 in a radio broadcast of a bootleg recording, I was floored. (Does not necessarily apply to her studio recording of this song.)

The Shirley Horn Trio's entire set was released on Monterey Jazz Festival Records (or Concord Records?) and is not available online anywhere that I can see other than at Spotify:



_The Look of Love _is track number 3
01. Introduction (0:28)
02. Foolin' Myself (2:15)
03. The Look Of Love (7:19)

Its all in how you do the song...see if you agree with my perspective!

Shirley Horn (1934-2005) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Horn

Horn's 1992 Album, _Here's To Life_, has wonderful orchestrations by Johnny Mandel (also the composer of three of the songs on the album), who received a Grammy Award for Best Instrumental Arrangement Accompanying Vocal(s) on this album.

The title track "Here's to Life" became Horn's signature song. The music was written by Artie Butler and the poignant lyrics were written by https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Phyllis_Molinary&action=edit&redlink=1 (Phyllis Molinary). The lyric is known, world-wide, as one of her finest works and the song is considered a "modern day jazz standard."

Artie Butler, the composer of _Here's To Life_, was present at the recording sessions for his song and relates that, when the song was finished, "the entire orchestra listened to the playback and wept. There stood fifty people listening and crying. What a thrill for a songwriter to have his song come back to him for the very first time in such splendor."


----------



## Phillip Dixon

I'd hardly call dusty Springfield 
Lightweight,


----------



## NYC Composer

“Look of Love” mostly sounds great, but “look” sounds like “”Luke”.


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> A small Bossa Nova test done with Weina, showing her fantastic breathy tone:
> 
> The look of love (Dusty Springfield) - Weina 104b1, SV 1.8.0b1
> View attachment The look of love - Weina 1.8 test.mp3


It sounds absolutely brilliant. Your backing track adds to the fabulous character of the sound a lot, too. 

The pronounciation is a bit wonky sometimes, and it doesn't bother me at all. 'The luke of love' sounds a little cute even.


----------



## ScarletJerry

Blancanegra said:


> A small Bossa Nova test done with Weina, showing her fantastic breathy tone:
> 
> The look of love (Dusty Springfield) - Weina 104b1, SV 1.8.0b1
> View attachment The look of love - Weina 1.8 test.mp3
> 
> 
> Vocal modes (quiet part):
> Delicate 150%
> Tender 20%
> 
> Tension: -0.6
> Breathness: 0.3
> 
> Very low expresiveness pitch values to reduce vibrato. I would have liked to spend more time smoothing out some syllables even more with the Voicing parameter. I used loudness as deesser.
> 
> I also had some time to tweak Bring Him Home making the vibratos deeper and more dramatic, maybe very exaggerated and out of place at times.
> 
> Bring him home (Les Misérables) - Kevin 107b1, SV 1.8.0b1
> View attachment Bring him home - Kevin 1.8 test.mp3


Love, love, LOVE the Look of Love rendition. Great job! I’m less enthusiastic about the Bring Him Home update. I really think that you nailed it the first time, and the vibrato in the new version is too intense, in my opinion.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> A small Bossa Nova test done with Weina, showing her fantastic breathy tone:
> 
> The look of love (Dusty Springfield) - Weina 104b1, SV 1.8.0b1
> View attachment The look of love - Weina 1.8 test.mp3


Here's an edited version of your file, with edits to some of the words - mostly to _"look"_. It's not great, but it's (hopefully) better:
View attachment The Look Of Love (Weina).mp3


Playing with phonemes is a game of whack-a-mole. Modify one phoneme, and the */k/* falls off the end of the word. Attach a */k hh/* on the end, and Weina sings it like a */g/*. That's the point where I started editing the voicing, and noticed you'd already been doing that, so I just extended the envelopes.

There are two lyric fixes:

"Wait _to_ hold you"
"_Let_ this be just the start"
*Edit: *Modified more stuff, added backing thanks to Spleeter.


----------



## NYC Composer

David Cuny said:


> Here's an edited version of your file, with edits to some of the words - mostly to _"look"_. It's not great, but it's (hopefully) better:
> 
> View attachment 90338
> 
> 
> Playing with phonemes is a game of whack-a-mole. Modify one phoneme, and the */k/* falls off the end of the word. Attach a */k hh/* on the end, and Weina sings it like a */g/*. That's the point where I started editing the voicing, and noticed you'd already been doing that, so I just extended the envelopes.
> 
> There are two lyric fixes:
> 
> "Wait _to_ hold you"
> "_Let_ this be just the start"


Did you get the vocal only to do this , or?

Perfect. Btw.


----------



## David Cuny

NYC Composer said:


> Did you get the vocal only to do this , or?


I used the .svp that Blancanegra posted, modified the phonemes, and re-rendered.

Lather, rinse, repeat. 

I always learn a lot when I look at his *.svp* files. Some new stuff, other stuff I used to do but got lazy and stopped doing, but make a subtle difference in the final result.


----------



## NYC Composer

His stuff is amazing.

Are those your own backing tracks, Blancanegra?


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> I'm too lazy to check the original, so I'll give you the credit.
> 
> While vowel-to-vowel transitions aren't always great, I find them sometimes helpful to shape a vowel sound.
> 
> For example, the */ih/* is fine in _"seal it *with* a kiss"_.
> 
> But I went ahead and changed */w ih dh/* to */w eh ih dh/* with a _really _short and weak */eh/* that helped take some of the bite out of it. It sounded better to me like that.





David Cuny said:


> Here's an edited version of your file, with edits to some of the words - mostly to _"look"_. It's not great, but it's (hopefully) better:
> 
> View attachment 90338
> 
> 
> Playing with phonemes is a game of whack-a-mole. Modify one phoneme, and the */k/* falls off the end of the word. Attach a */k hh/* on the end, and Weina sings it like a */g/*. That's the point where I started editing the voicing, and noticed you'd already been doing that, so I just extended the envelopes.
> 
> There are two lyric fixes:
> 
> "Wait _to_ hold you"
> "_Let_ this be just the start"


Thank you David!
I've inspected your changes and they are far beyond what I can manage, as my ear is not so accustomed to English as to pick up subtle differences in vowel colouring, unless it is extremely noticeable. Weina has a few pronunciation issues here and there, and I think it's pretty hard to track them all down before commercializing the voices. I say this because even the same syllable or vowel (e.g. /y uh/) sometimes sounds good and sometimes completely strange in another context (different pitch or adjacent phonemes).
But as this technology advances rapidly, these voices are like whiskey, getting better with time.



NYC Composer said:


> His stuff is amazing.
> 
> Are those your own backing tracks, Blancanegra?





soulofsound said:


> It sounds absolutely brilliant. Your backing track adds to the fabulous character of the sound a lot, too.
> 
> The pronounciation is a bit wonky sometimes, and it doesn't bother me at all. 'The luke of love' sounds a little cute even.





ScarletJerry said:


> Love, love, LOVE the Look of Love rendition. Great job! I’m less enthusiastic about the Bring Him Home update. I really think that you nailed it the first time, and the vibrato in the new version is too intense, in my opinion.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


Thank you all!
I don't have that much time available or the necessary skill, so I don't do the backing tracks and I use karaoke files that I find out there. Some are the original tracks with the vocals removed.

As @David Cuny has shown with his little tweaks, even if a voice bank has a pronunciation problem, it can be improved with a little effort.


----------



## David Cuny

The final 1.8.0 has been released, finalizing the changes seen in the beta:



> Dreamtonics releases Synthesizer V Studio 1.8.0 following the successful launch of 1.8.0 beta.
> 
> Synthesizer V Studio 1.8.0 finalizes the beta released two weeks ago (see beta release notes). The 1.8.0 update ushers in a major evolution of the synthesis engine – high speed Diffusion Probabilistic Models (DPM) based singing synthesis technology. This is in addition to several exciting new features, improvements and bug fixes.
> 
> Version 1.8.0 also introduces MIDI keyboard and metronome support, and Cross-lingual Synthesis feature gets updated to support note-level specification of the language.
> 
> You can access the updates through the License and Updates panel inside Synthesizer V Studio.


If you're got the beta, you can update via the application.


----------



## stigc56

richiebee said:


> Great way to put it. I agree with you completely. Its a very nice update for the sound quality alone. To me we have just moved another step closer to not being able to detect this as a VI, its just incredible where we have got to with it. Quick demo of Natalie, but the update in sound quality is equally impressive in Kevin and Solaria.


Sounding very nice! The bass is? and the piano?


----------



## raidergale

Two new Chinese voices have been announced by Dreamtonics.
Considering the poem they shared, I was expecting stronger voices, but they both sound nice.

Xuan Yu
Cong Zheng


----------



## zinct

David Cuny said:


> The final 1.8.0 has been released, finalizing the changes seen in the beta:
> 
> 
> If you're got the beta, you can update via the application.


Thanks for the heads-up, David. 

I had updates for Solaria and Kevin which also updated via the application.


----------



## Tom Ferguson

Hey guys,

Not specifically a Synth V question but probably related; I'm fumbling through using Neutrino as a non-Japanese speaking beginner vocal synth user and I'm just wondering quick how to denote/notate Neutrino pronouncing '-s' instead of '-su' at the end of a word (presuming that pronunciation thing applies to singing too?). I'm using the Tyousei Sien Tool fyi.

I imagine it might be the same as other vocals synths maybe?

Cheers


----------



## raidergale

Tom Ferguson said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Not specifically a Synth V question but probably related; I'm fumbling through using Neutrino as a non-Japanese speaking beginner vocal synth user and I'm just wondering quick how to denote/notate Neutrino pronouncing '-s' instead of '-su' at the end of a word (presuming that pronunciation thing applies to singing too?). I'm using the Tyousei Sien Tool fyi.
> 
> I imagine it might be the same as other vocals synths maybe?
> 
> Cheers


I've seen reports that it's the " ' " symbol, but I haven't tested myself.
So, for example, to get "des" instead of "desu" you'd need to type です'.


----------



## Tom Ferguson

raidergale said:


> I've seen reports that it's the " ' " symbol, but I haven't tested myself.
> So, for example, to get "des" instead of "desu" you'd need to type です'.


That's it! Thanks for the swift and accurate answer!


----------



## Knute5

David Cuny said:


> Here's an edited version of your file, with edits to some of the words - mostly to _"look"_. It's not great, but it's (hopefully) better:
> View attachment The Look Of Love (Weina).mp3
> 
> 
> Playing with phonemes is a game of whack-a-mole. Modify one phoneme, and the */k/* falls off the end of the word. Attach a */k hh/* on the end, and Weina sings it like a */g/*. That's the point where I started editing the voicing, and noticed you'd already been doing that, so I just extended the envelopes.
> 
> There are two lyric fixes:
> 
> "Wait _to_ hold you"
> "_Let_ this be just the start"
> *Edit: *Modified more stuff, added backing thanks to Spleeter.


Apologies if I've mentioned this before (long thread!) but this reminds me of a high-end Hong Kong or Singaporean singer who either carries a slight accent or is singing phonetically, almost perfectly. It's subtle stuff and beyond serviceable as a sketch, but I'm looking for more American/urban voicing which is obviously more complicated. But I don't expect Dreamtonics to go that way. Is it possible that someone is working on something more Ariana/Demi/Beyonce-focused?


----------



## David Cuny

zinct said:


> I had updates for Solaria and Kevin which also updated via the application.


*New Features*

Synthesizer V Engine: support for voices based on Diffusion Probabilistic Models (DPM).
MIDI: support for real-time MIDI input. (MIDI keyboard required, Pro version only)
MIDI: support for MIDI Machine Control (play, stop, record, fast-forward, fast-rewind). (Pro version only)
Piano roll: add metronome. (Pro version only)
Note Properties Panel: add note-level cross-lingual synthesis. (Pro version only)
Modify menu: add “Smart Quantization” feature.
*Enhancements*

GUI: updated dialog designs.
Piano roll: adjusted note dragging behavior to prevent misclicks.
AI Retakes: UI adjustments for AI Retakes Expressiveness slider.
File: the default name for “Save As…” has been changed to the project name.
Synthesizer V Engine: improved the effectiveness of Phoneme Strength parameter on DPM voices. (Update from 1.8.0b1)
MIDI: changed to accept MIDI input through plugins. (Update from 1.8.0b1)
Rendering: show an alert message when exporting tracks with conflicting names. (Update from 1.8.0b1)

*Updated Voices*


DreamtonicsAn Xiao v104, Feng Yi v104, Kevin v107, Mo Chen v104, Natalie v103, Ryo AI v108, Saki AI v124, Qing Su v112, Weina v104, Yuma v102AHSKoharu Rikka AI v122, Natsuki Karin AI v106, Hanakuma Chifuyu AI v102, Tsurumaki Maki AI (JPN) v114, Tsurumaki Maki AI (ENG) v107, Kyomachi Seika AI v108, Tsuina-Chan AI v108AUDIOLOGIEANRI v107Eclipsed SoundsSOLARIA v108QuadimensionMEDIUM5 Stardust v106AnimenEleanor Forte AI v108


----------



## David Cuny

Knute5 said:


> Is it possible that someone is working on something more Ariana/Demi/Beyonce-focused?


This song uses _SynthesizerV_'s cross-lingual function to allow Weina - a non-English voicebank - to sing in Englsh.

There are a number of native English voicebanks:

Anri
Astarian
Eleanor Forte
Kevin
Natalie
Solaria
You'd need to check out their demo songs to get an idea of what styles they are best suited for.


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> This song uses _SynthesizerV_'s cross-lingual function to allow Weina - a non-English voicebank - to sing in Englsh.
> 
> There are a number of native English voicebanks:
> 
> Anri
> Astarian
> Eleanor Forte
> Kevin
> Natalie
> Solaria
> You'd need to check out their demo songs to get an idea of what styles they are best suited for.


According to the description on the product page:

_Synthesizer V AI Weina is a *bilingual (English and Mandarin Chinese)* voice database created from a close collaboration between Dreamtonics and renowned vocalist Weina Hu.

Blah, blah, blah...

*Thanks to* Dreamtonics’ leading *cross-language synthesis* technology, in Synthesizer V Studio Pro Weina *is able to sing songs in Japanese* with near-native ability. In the process of making, a carefully curated selection of Chinese and English songs as the training data gives Weina an extra edge of nailing the pronunciations._

So, her English is not cross-lingual synthesized but not native aswell.


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> So, her English is not cross-lingual synthesized but not native aswell.


Thanks for pointing that out.


----------



## David Cuny

David Cuny said:


> Thanks for pointing that out.


No actually I'm serious. 

I had read that before, but not closely enough.

I'd assumed that they applied cross-lingual synthesis against her English singing. But they make it clear that they only use cross-lingual synthesis for the Japanese voicebank.


----------



## raidergale

Looks like the 1.8 update killed the notepad trick to boost vocal modes beyond their limits. It's a huge bummer, it was a harmless modification which brought a lot more variations to the voices, and it got killed with absolutely no replacement :/


----------



## David Cuny

raidergale said:


> Two new Chinese voices have been announced by Dreamtonics.
> Considering the poem they shared, I was expecting stronger voices, but they both sound nice.
> 
> Xuan Yu
> Cong Zheng



Xuan Yu has a dramatic tone. She seems in line with other female Chinese vocalists that can handle a ballad. I like that she's another mature female voice - more rough than sweet. I don't hear a lot of range in expression in the demo.

Cong Zheng has a nice sound - not as soft as some of the other offerings, but feels like he's reaching for the upper notes instead of having real power behind them.

I'll have to wait until the English demos come out to make any decisions. As nicely as they sing in Chinese, I've been frustrated trying to get some of the Chinese voices I've got to since in English without sounding mumbly and saying the wrong vowel sounds. 

Hopefully there are some English voices in the pipeline as well.


----------



## odod

can Xiao An sing in english?


----------



## David Cuny

odod said:


> can Xiao An sing in english?


Yes, but he's got a definite accent, and there can be problems.

As an example, Blancanegra posted "Song Sung Blue" with Kevin singing it:

*Kevin singing "Song Sung Blue"*
View attachment Song Sung - Kevin.mp3


Since he helpfully posted his .svp file, I used to to have Xioa An sing it. Multiple problems ensued (detailed below), and here are the final results.

*Xiao An singing "Song Sung Blue"*
View attachment Song Sung Blue - Xiao An.mp3


Xiao An could sing the _first_ occurrence of the word "blue", but the second time, he couldn't sing the */b/*, singing a */zh uw/* instead.

Since the trained neural network had somehow learned to make the entirely _wrong_ sound, the trick becomes figuring out how to make it come out with the right sound, or a less wrong sound.

This typically involved inserting a rest, a neutral vowel, or something clever (for example, using an */er/* phoneme to get him to sing "r" the */r/* phoneme won't do the trick).

Putting a closure (*/cl/*) in front of the "blue" caused him to sing */b uw/*.

I finally got something close with the phonemes */cl b l uh uw/* with a lot of tweaking each individual phoneme's duration and strength.

Similarly, he couldn't sing the */uh/ *in "good" very well, so I ended up changing that to */g oy oh d/*, again tweaking the phoneme durations and strengths.

So Xiao An _can_ sing in English, but:

It won't be as good as a native English voice
Be prepared to deal with some phonemes in the voicebank being wrong


----------



## Vlzmusic

Loving the 1.8.0 so far. And torturing Kevin by forcing him to make those "unreleased Bolton opera tracks" is my favorite leisure game 
View attachment Kevin_Lensky.mp3


----------



## moon

Vlzmusic said:


> Loving the 1.8.0 so far. And torturing Kevin by forcing him to make those "unreleased Bolton opera tracks" is my favorite leisure game


Ah, a fellow Bolton enjoyer!


----------



## Vlzmusic

moon said:


> Ah, a fellow Bolton enjoyer!


Lots of masochistic sides to this life 🙄 now fresh from recently taking my parents to Andre Rieu concert


----------



## Blancanegra

And now is when I find that several songs that I want to cover with Weina contain the problematic phoneme /uh/ everywhere!

In this little test, does "woman" sound correct to you? (phoneme /uh/ replaced by /ao aa/
And "looking"? (unedited).

Kind of a woman (Nancy Sinatra) Weina 1.04, SV 1.8
View attachment Kind of a woman - Weina 1.8 test.mp3


----------



## Cyberic

Blancanegra said:


> And now is when I find that several songs that I want to cover with Weina contain the problematic phoneme /uh/ everywhere!
> 
> In this little test, does "woman" sound correct to you? (phoneme /uh/ replaced by /ao aa/
> And "looking"? (unedited).
> 
> Kind of a woman (Nancy Sinatra) Weina 1.04, SV 1.8
> View attachment Kind of a woman - Weina 1.8 test.mp3


Yes, it’s fine. Artists have licence to blend, distort, interpret notes and words. You’ve done well here.


----------



## odod

David Cuny said:


> Yes, but he's got a definite accent, and there can be problems.
> 
> As an example, Blancanegra posted "Song Sung Blue" with Kevin singing it:
> 
> *Kevin singing "Song Sung Blue"*
> View attachment Song Sung - Kevin.mp3
> 
> 
> Since he helpfully posted his .svp file, I used to to have Xioa An sing it. Multiple problems ensued (detailed below), and here are the final results.
> 
> *Xiao An singing "Song Sung Blue"*
> View attachment Song Sung Blue - Xiao An.mp3
> 
> 
> Xiao An could sing the _first_ occurrence of the word "blue", but the second time, he couldn't sing the */b/*, singing a */zh uw/* instead.
> 
> Since the trained neural network had somehow learned to make the entirely _wrong_ sound, the trick becomes figuring out how to make it come out with the right sound, or a less wrong sound.
> 
> This typically involved inserting a rest, a neutral vowel, or something clever (for example, using an */er/* phoneme to get him to sing "r" the */r/* phoneme won't do the trick).
> 
> Putting a closure (*/cl/*) in front of the "blue" caused him to sing */b uw/*.
> 
> I finally got something close with the phonemes */cl b l uh uw/* with a lot of tweaking each individual phoneme's duration and strength.
> 
> Similarly, he couldn't sing the */uh/ *in "good" very well, so I ended up changing that to */g oy oh d/*, again tweaking the phoneme durations and strengths.
> 
> So Xiao An _can_ sing in English, but:
> 
> It won't be as good as a native English voice
> Be prepared to deal with some phonemes in the voicebank being wrong


well .. that's a bummer for me, too bad there's no lite version too :(
Thank you for your detail explanation David!


----------



## Trash Panda

Vlzmusic said:


> Loving the 1.8.0 so far. And torturing Kevin by forcing him to make those "unreleased Bolton opera tracks" is my favorite leisure game


Do this one next! 😂


----------



## Vlzmusic

Trash Panda said:


> Do this one next! 😂



Its almost Christmas indeed.... ......

"Hey, Kevin! Look, I've got this another idea........"


----------



## madfloyd

David Cuny said:


> *New Features*
> 
> Synthesizer V Engine: support for voices based on Diffusion Probabilistic Models (DPM).
> MIDI: support for real-time MIDI input. (MIDI keyboard required, Pro version only)
> MIDI: support for MIDI Machine Control (play, stop, record, fast-forward, fast-rewind). (Pro version only)
> Piano roll: add metronome. (Pro version only)
> Note Properties Panel: add note-level cross-lingual synthesis. (Pro version only)
> Modify menu: add “Smart Quantization” feature.
> *Enhancements*
> 
> GUI: updated dialog designs.
> Piano roll: adjusted note dragging behavior to prevent misclicks.
> AI Retakes: UI adjustments for AI Retakes Expressiveness slider.
> File: the default name for “Save As…” has been changed to the project name.
> Synthesizer V Engine: improved the effectiveness of Phoneme Strength parameter on DPM voices. (Update from 1.8.0b1)
> MIDI: changed to accept MIDI input through plugins. (Update from 1.8.0b1)
> Rendering: show an alert message when exporting tracks with conflicting names. (Update from 1.8.0b1)
> 
> *Updated Voices*
> 
> 
> DreamtonicsAn Xiao v104, Feng Yi v104, Kevin v107, Mo Chen v104, Natalie v103, Ryo AI v108, Saki AI v124, Qing Su v112, Weina v104, Yuma v102AHSKoharu Rikka AI v122, Natsuki Karin AI v106, Hanakuma Chifuyu AI v102, Tsurumaki Maki AI (JPN) v114, Tsurumaki Maki AI (ENG) v107, Kyomachi Seika AI v108, Tsuina-Chan AI v108AUDIOLOGIEANRI v107Eclipsed SoundsSOLARIA v108QuadimensionMEDIUM5 Stardust v106AnimenEleanor Forte AI v108


I find it infuriating that they haven't fixed the tempo bug yet.


----------



## mothershout

I’m holding off on updating to 1.8 because I’m in the last stages of vocal tweaks on a song, and thus I have a question; does the update change the voice performances as much as early tests of the beta suggested?

If so, I’m half considering using it as a trick; rendering 1.7 performances to audio, updating SynthV and using the altered voices to boost a choir effect.


----------



## Trash Panda

It’s been a minute and several updates since I last touched Synth V. Can any of our power users share what settings Best contribute to getting a loud, almost shouty type of sound like those in Chorus, Storm Choir or Oceania?


----------



## Vlzmusic

Trash Panda said:


> what settings Best contribute to getting a loud, almost shouty type of sound like those in Chorus, Storm Choir or Oceania?


I am no power user, alas, but I guess vocal modes contribute the most? Thats the impression I've got so far.

And on the same page, did I dream about it, or there was a way to control/adjust the vocal modes mid song?



Vlzmusic said:


> Its almost Christmas indeed.... ......
> 
> "Hey, Kevin! Look, I've got this another idea........"


Meanwhile, I got his take on that...
View attachment Kevin`s Answer.mp3


----------



## David Cuny

Trash Panda said:


> It’s been a minute and several updates since I last touched Synth V. Can any of our power users share what settings Best contribute to getting a loud, almost shouty type of sound like those in Chorus, Storm Choir or Oceania?


Not a power user, but my suggestions:

Use Vocal Modes like "Belt" and "Solid" if they are available
Make use of the "Takes" option, including "Timbre", adjusting the "Expressiveness"
Add "Tension" and turn down "Breathiess"
Use "Tone Shift" to suggest being in a different vocal register
Add vibrato to sustained notes to imply effort
Edit "Gender" in the Parameters track over the duration of a note
Run the Aspiration track through distortion
Progressive changes over a note - adding deeper vibrato, shifting the Gender - can be very effective in making a note more dynamic.


----------



## Blancanegra

mothershout said:


> I’m holding off on updating to 1.8 because I’m in the last stages of vocal tweaks on a song, and thus I have a question; does the update change the voice performances as much as early tests of the beta suggested?
> 
> If so, I’m half considering using it as a trick; rendering 1.7 performances to audio, updating SynthV and using the altered voices to boost a choir effect.


Deactivating INSTANT MODE preserves the pitch performance, applying those variations to Pitch Parameter.

So you can duplicate the track, deactivating INSTANT MODE in one of the tracks before updating to preserve the performance in that track. Then you can use it as guide to match the new one updated with the new pitch model.


----------



## S-B-L

I also have a question for the power users about the Default Options for the Voice Database.
When I change unter the "Voice Panel" -> "Defaults - Vibrato" the "Freq" or "Start" nothing happens to the notes and the song. How does this work?
Do I have to edit every single note/word with the vibrato settings or am I doing something wrong?
I have the Pro Version, 1.8.0 and use Natalie 103 and Mai 100


----------



## Blancanegra

S-B-L said:


> I also have a question for the power users about the Default Options for the Voice Database.
> When I change unter the "Voice Panel" -> "Defaults - Vibrato" the "Freq" or "Start" nothing happens to the notes and the song. How does this work?
> Do I have to edit every single note/word with the vibrato settings or am I doing something wrong?
> I have the Pro Version, 1.8.0 and use Natalie 103 and Mai 100


I think that those settings only make efect to tracks with INSTANT MODE off.


----------



## richiebee

S-B-L said:


> I also have a question for the power users about the Default Options for the Voice Database.
> When I change unter the "Voice Panel" -> "Defaults - Vibrato" the "Freq" or "Start" nothing happens to the notes and the song. How does this work?
> Do I have to edit every single note/word with the vibrato settings or am I doing something wrong?
> I have the Pro Version, 1.8.0 and use Natalie 103 and Mai 100


I think there's a complicated relationship between Defaults and voice personalities. Also, I find that once you've started entering notes on the timeline, the Default vibrato settings in Voice don't have an effect. I tend to ignore the vibrato and note transitions in the "Voice" panel, and use the ones in the Note Properties instead. In Note Properties, you need to have the note selected for it to take effect. To select all notes, I select one then hit Ctrl A (would be Cmd A on a Mac). 

If you want to remove all note pitch variations, the easiest way I find to do this is to come out of Instant Mode, select all notes, Modify > Reset Pitch. This then flattens everything, and you can apply it back using AutoProcess > AutoPitchTuning(customized style).


----------



## J. H. Smith

Vlzmusic said:


> It was in March-April, so I guess it will sound much better now, but it was in pre "Instant Mode" days, so I would turn it off today.
> 
> I was making either one long note per phrase, or per few words, using only one pitch (in the middle-low range) drawing in "talking" kind of pitches by hand (like when your pitch goes up on question etc. ) and working a lot with the syllable parameters on the right tab - length, strength etc.


This sounds interesting per se, but also _very_ manually intensive.

While it might work for short spoken sequences in a song, for example, as a pro video producer/editor I highly doubt that it's a practicable method in a production workflow.


----------



## Knute5

Blancanegra said:


> And now is when I find that several songs that I want to cover with Weina contain the problematic phoneme /uh/ everywhere!
> 
> In this little test, does "woman" sound correct to you? (phoneme /uh/ replaced by /ao aa/
> And "looking"? (unedited).
> 
> Kind of a woman (Nancy Sinatra) Weina 1.04, SV 1.8
> View attachment Kind of a woman - Weina 1.8 test.mp3


"Woman" doesn't sound too bad. Some English singers choose to open the "oo" (as in look) vowel to something closer to "au" as in cause, but not totally there. It works.

"Truth" is a little strange, though. Sounds like "Triff."


----------



## scarboroughwa

Pier-V said:


> I recently discovered that one single guy is basically writing the future of vocal virtual instruments, but despite the huge fanbase none of the "pros" seems to have noticed.
> To be more specific, this company named Dreamtonics is working on a Vst, Synthesizer V. This Vst uses voicebanks, and the one that really captured my attention are Saki AI for japanese and Eleanor Forte Lite for english (the AI version is still in development).
> It's basically like Vocaloid, but with the big difference that it's not a meme - yeah, maybe Porter Robinson made Avanna work but it's the exception to the rule (btw I proudly own Avanna... sorry Avanna but it's true).
> Every voice in the excerpts below doesn't have a real life counterpart, and while Eleanor still needs work I have to admit Saki is impressive.
> However, since neither japanese nor english are my native languages (as you can probably tell) I am genuinely curious to know what you think about all of this.
> One last thing: listen the first two pieces as you like. The third one... please just don't use headphones.



It’s the way it’s going. No diva behaviour to put up with, or pay.

I read somewhere, Spotify manufacture their own tracks which are completely written and produced by AI. 

More money for them. Total ownership, and nothing to pay out.

It’ll soon become which is the best AI, and after a fight between AIs, one AI will write and produce everything.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Knute5 said:


> "Woman" doesn't sound too bad. Some English singers choose to open the "oo" (as in look) vowel to something closer to "au" as in cause, but not totally there. It works.
> 
> "Truth" is a little strange, though. Sounds like "Triff."


"Truth" sounds pretty good to me (as a native English speaker)... it definitely sounds like a long "u" to me. The "th" part is a bit noisy but I definitely hear it as "th" not "ff".


----------



## Blancanegra

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> "Truth" sounds pretty good to me (as a native English speaker)... it definitely sounds like a long "u" to me. The "th" part is a bit noisy but I definitely hear it as "th" not "ff".





Knute5 said:


> "Woman" doesn't sound too bad. Some English singers choose to open the "oo" (as in look) vowel to something closer to "au" as in cause, but not totally there. It works.
> 
> "Truth" is a little strange, though. Sounds like "Triff."


This is what I did before it started to stop being fun trying to fix the pronunciation. Despite her shortcomings, Weina's voice is precious to me:

Kind of a woman (Nancy Sinatra) - Weina 1.04, SV 1.8
View attachment Kind of a woman - Weina 1.8 test.mp3


Hey, a full song! 

While editing I duplicated the track and I put Solaria's voice to compare the pronunciation. I corrected the phoneme /uh/, which is wrong and sounds like /uw/. I have used @David Cuny fix for "The look of love" putting /ao aa/, and in other cases /ao uh/. If someone wants to improve the pronunciation of the wrong phonemes, the project file is available for download, it will also sound good with Solaria, although making adjustments to the pitch and vocal modes.

With version 1.8 I notice that intonation and timbre are more accurate at all times, but I miss the variety of timbre and dynamics of HDVM.


----------



## Knute5

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> "Truth" sounds pretty good to me (as a native English speaker)... it definitely sounds like a long "u" to me. The "th" part is a bit noisy but I definitely hear it as "th" not "ff".


Hmm,


AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> "Truth" sounds pretty good to me (as a native English speaker)... it definitely sounds like a long "u" to me. The "th" part is a bit noisy but I definitely hear it as "th" not "ff".


Yup, on second hearing I was wrong. Sorry bout that, Blancanegra. Your genius is mighty...


----------



## J. H. Smith

Blancanegra said:


> This is what I did before it started to stop being fun trying to fix the pronunciation. Despite her shortcomings, Weina's voice is precious to me:
> 
> Kind of a woman (Nancy Sinatra) - Weina 1.04, SV 1.8
> View attachment Kind of a woman - Weina 1.8 test.mp3
> 
> 
> Hey, a full song!
> 
> …


Remember when any digital voice song on Youtube used to have lower third translations, just so that you could understand what the voice was singing?
Less than a year later, here is a recording of sensuous woman singing, not just convincingly, but _enjoyably_. Granted, with some (a lot!) of fine tuning editing, but… 
Just fabulous.


----------



## raidergale

New Asterian demo, showcasing his base voice with no adjustments on parameters and vocal modes. (well, other than pitch I guess, unsure if it's manual or instant mode/auto pitching)



This also confirms all Asterian's vocal modes: Clear, Warm, Gentle, Strained, Rough, Open, Closed, Passionate and Theatrical.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

raidergale said:


> New Asterian demo, showcasing his base voice with no adjustments on parameters and vocal modes. (well, other than pitch I guess, unsure if it's manual or instant mode/auto pitching)
> 
> 
> 
> This also confirms all Asterian's vocal modes: Clear, Warm, Gentle, Strained, Rough, Open, Closed, Passionate and Theatrical.



This is a bit better overall, but why oh why in these demos do they keep drowning out the bass in his voice with the instrumentals?... And it would be so much better if a few of those syllables were extended just a little... and if the vocal were a little bit louder.


----------



## Pier-V

raidergale said:


> New Asterian demo, showcasing his base voice with no adjustments on parameters and vocal modes. (well, other than pitch I guess, unsure if it's manual or instant mode/auto pitching)
> 
> 
> 
> This also confirms all Asterian's vocal modes: Clear, Warm, Gentle, Strained, Rough, Open, Closed, Passionate and Theatrical.



I waited a bit for the 4th demo to show up on Youtube, but since it was taking longer than usual this morning I decided to preorder Asterian anyway.
So, I agree with some of the points expressed in the last 2-3 pages about the demos, but I would also like to point out that it's very important to distinguish what is provided in the demos on an artistic level from what is technically possible with the voicebank - Asterian will probably require some additional work here and there compared to Solaria, but from what I heard so far the potential is just to good to pass and, most importantly, Eclipsed Sounds are literally the first group of people taking bass range vocal emulation seriously (to my knowledge, at least).
This means there's no Vst alternative for people interested in bass range vocal performances, and considering my interest in acapella ensemble vocal performances the preorder was simply a no-brainer in my case.

As a side note, I'm continuing my experiments with the new voicebanks (I'm still in 1.8beta, I absolutely need to check the exaggerated vocal modes editing trick first or I know already I'll regret it 😆).
I *definitely* still think the new "staccato" expressiveness in the 1.8 voicebanks is not suited for certain lyrical/slow lines, but that said I have to admit the improvements are insane under every other aspect. In addition to the ones I listed in my previous posts, I discovered the gender function can now really do wonders if used correctly to add expressiveness, especially if going slightly towards masculine during emotional crescendos, and the new voicebanks seem to have far better high range when they sing in tune (for example, Solaria can now potentially sing pretty realistically up to high A, if needed).
Another curious detail I noticed is that now changing tempo dynamically inside SynthV doesn't trigger a new performance rendering anymore, the pitch and timbre information is simply retained as is. Pure speculation, but could this possibly be a sneaky first step towards the ability to tempo sync SynthV used as a Vst plugin with the DAW hosting it?
In addition to all of the above, I realized the old voicebanks implemented in the new engine version are not that different to the originals afterall, it's just a bit of a pity they now have _extremely_ weak high range, but I can live with that I guess.


----------



## Anthony

Pier-V said:


> I'm still in 1.8beta,...


Not sure if you know, but the (full) version 1.8.0 has been released. And it works quite well!


----------



## Vlzmusic

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> This is a bit better overall, but why oh why in these demos do they keep drowning out the bass in his voice with the instrumentals?... And it would be so much better if a few of those syllables were extended just a little... and if the vocal were a little bit louder.


If they give it to us on Friday, I promise you a fancy acapella tryout the same day


----------



## David Cuny

I see from the _SynthV _forum that Asterian has 9 vocal modes:

Clear
Warm
Gentle
Strained
Rough
Open
Closed
Passionate
Theatrical


----------



## bosone

finally, this demo is very well done! i will probably preorder as well!


----------



## Blancanegra

Pier-V said:


> I *definitely* still think the new "staccato" expressiveness in the 1.8 voicebanks is not suited for certain lyrical/slow lines, but that said I have to admit the improvements are insane under every other aspect.


Could you give some example of lyrical/slow lines?
I don't think you mean something like this:

You raise me up (Lena Park) - Weina 1.04, SV 1.8
View attachment You raise me up - Weina 1.8 test.mp3


----------



## Blancanegra

David Cuny said:


> I see from the _SynthV _forum that Asterian has 9 vocal modes:
> 
> Clear
> Warm
> Gentle
> Strained
> Rough
> Open
> Closed
> Passionate
> Theatrical


Wow, The theatrical mode sounds insteresting!


----------



## Pier-V

@Anthony Thank you for warning me, but I knew already haha. The reason I'll stay in beta for a couple of days still is that I first want to exploit a fun little bug discovered by @raidergale . I didn't have time to check it yet, and it has been "patched" in the 1.8 (which I agree, is a shame )



Blancanegra said:


> Could you give some example of lyrical/slow lines?
> I don't think you mean something like this:


You're right, here the new voicebank version sounds absolutely gorgeous (and of course, it's beautifully edited thanks to your skills as per usual). If you listen closely, even though this would probably appear as legato in a score, it still has a certain specific way of separating consonants from vowels with tiny little pauses, together with a realtively "aggressive" use of vibrato as an accent.
The legato I'm talking about is a very extreme, no-compromises kind of legato you find, for example, in romantic adagios written for strings, and even though the other voicebanks I own failed at it before the update already, Solaria in particular was extremely good at it up until version 106.

I already attached two examples in a previous post (one was more obvious and aimed at showing how the 108b1 sounds out of tune in some spots, but Laura Brehm's Camden cover was a lot more subtle and was aimed mainly at showing how the new stylistic interpretation is not always the better option, that's why I included the original for reference).
However, to avoid spamming the same examples over and over, I included a new one below. This started just as a test to check how the neural network would react to extremely chromatic, nearly atonal music, and it's in a very raw state at the moment - no phoneme strenght or gender/tension automation, no mixing etc. When Asterian will be out, I'll consider if it's worth turning it into a three or four part full acapella performance...

Solaria 106

View attachment Chromatic Polytonal Test 106.mp3


Solaria 108b1

View attachment Chromatic Polytonal Test 108b1.mp3


Since a single line in isolation and no context may be a little confusing, this style is basically the vocal equivalent of a strings excerpt like the one that follows. I included it as well to clarify the particular atmosphere I'm after:

View attachment Throwback Atonal sketch - orchestral horror tension.mp3


As you can hopefully hear yourself, the 108b1 interpretation is not bad _per se_. It actually provides a very clear and expressive interpretation, with a vibrato style very vaguely operaic in nature. It's just that I don't need a great singer here, but rather a mysterious mermaid luring you into her obscure world.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

gedlig said:


> Wish they did a demo like this, where he sang the super low in the Doom eternal soundtrack. If I'd get this voicebank, it would be for this exact purpose.



Has there been any confirmation yet that at least one of the vocal modes will be in this style?...


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Eclipsed Sound on Twitter (22 hours ago): "we also have samples planned for this week that will show each mode individually, (& maybe in some suggested combinations) so you won't have to look at the list and wonder for long!"


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

... but I guess the last day to preorder is Thursday, so will those examples be released before the end of the preorder period?


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

"Currently ASTERIAN is meant to be a bass range vocal and so covers the bass range of the voice provider, and not a basso profundo or oktavist range, and will likely not be able to cover gutteral chanting at that depth.

The 9 vocal modes available are Clean, Strained, Rough, Warm, Gentle, Passionate, Closed, Open, and Theatrical and the vocal range as stated in the vocal information portion of the product page is is E2-D4, with a falsetto available from G4-C5. Vocal modes are generally used to offer additional tones rather than to cover additional ranges, due to the way that they are implemented. A somewhat similar singing style to the performance in the Doom Eternal OST can be achieved by combining Open, Closed, and Theatrical at different proportions depending on context, though he will primarily perform best in the aforementioned range.

ASTERIAN is one of the very first bass vocalists available through commercial synthesis, and so we hope you understand our choice to begin with covering a more conventional bass range."

Sigh... glad I asked. I can sing E2 pretty comfortably. I'll have to think about this some more....


----------



## gedlig

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> not a basso profundo or oktavist range, and will likely not be able to cover gutteral chanting at that depth.


Good to know. Means I won't be looking into this one for some time :D


----------



## Anthony

Two Qs regarding Synthesizer V:

1. Can vocal modes be applied on a _per-note_ basis?

2. Is there a way to get MIDI notes into the plugin _directly_ from your DAW instead of playing them into the plugin or exporing a MIDI file from your DAW and then dragging it into the plugin?


----------



## odod

Anthony said:


> Two Qs regarding Synthesizer V:
> 
> 1. Can vocal modes be applied on a _per-note_ basis?
> 
> 2. Is there a way to get MIDI notes into the plugin _directly_ from your DAW instead of playing them into the plugin or exporing a MIDI file from your DAW and then dragging it into the plugin?


1. NO .. cannot per note basis
2. My best practice would be, i made an instrumental track and drag it to SynthV Standalone, and there I would just record the MIDI easily .. and lastly I would make a new project in DAW so I can give fx, and tweak the vocal (rendered to audio) etc.


----------



## tc9000

Sorry if this already got discussed - I have not read all the messages going back - but I just updated and I was blown away by the Auto-process > Melody > Ornament Selected Notes option. DAMN!!!! I think it was @Blancanegra that showed me the importance of those, and I know this can't match doing this manually, but DAMN how cool is it that this is in the app now!


----------



## Blancanegra

Finally the demo that sold me product. I just preordered Asterian:



_"The highest note shown is B4, the second highest in the falsetto set, & the lowest is E2, the bottom of his recommended range."_


----------



## Markrs

Blancanegra said:


> Finally the demo that sold me product. I just preordered Asterian:
> 
> 
> 
> _"The highest note shown is B4, the second highest in the falsetto set, & the lowest is E2, the bottom of his recommended range."_



That is a lot more impressive than the music demos


----------



## bosone

Markrs said:


> That is a lot more impressive than the music demos


Absolutely agree! 
this is awesome!


----------



## bosone

tc9000 said:


> Sorry if this already got discussed - I have not read all the messages going back - but I just updated and I was blown away by the Auto-process > Melody > Ornament Selected Notes option. DAMN!!!! I think it was @Blancanegra that showed me the importance of those, and I know this can't match doing this manually, but DAMN how cool is it that this is in the app now!


is the ornament selected notes autoprocess different in 1.8 with respect to the previous version? i still di not check it !


----------



## raidergale

Looks like Dreamtonics is finally putting some money towards advertisements. I've seen small ads before YouTube and Instagram videos, they recently opened a Facebook page, and now they just released this.



I guess this means they're doing relatively well?


----------



## Vlzmusic

Blancanegra said:


> Finally the demo that sold me product. I just preordered Asterian:
> 
> 
> 
> _"The highest note shown is B4, the second highest in the falsetto set, & the lowest is E2, the bottom of his recommended range."_



I am preordering too of course, as I have no problem investing 80 bucks in their endeavor (200 burned on Emvoice was harder to let go, and I am proud of myself ) - but back to Asterian
‐------------- 01.12.2022 update------
I felt obligated to edit out the portion about the voicebank probably being inferior to Solaria and others, cause this is still a recent post. Asterian is out now, and proved to be a fine product, so any unpleasant nuances that were in the demos are probably matter of user choices made.


----------



## Vlzmusic

raidergale said:


> Looks like Dreamtonics is finally putting some money towards advertisements. I've seen small ads before YouTube and Instagram videos, they recently opened a Facebook page, and now they just released this.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess this means they're doing relatively well?



Anyone recognize the voice used?


----------



## raidergale

Vlzmusic said:


> Anyone recognize the voice used?


Sounds like Natalie to me


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Blancanegra said:


> Finally the demo that sold me product. I just preordered Asterian:
> 
> 
> 
> _"The highest note shown is B4, the second highest in the falsetto set, & the lowest is E2, the bottom of his recommended range."_



Love the timbre at E2, and like it a lot at C5 too....


----------



## Blancanegra

Vlzmusic said:


> Anyone recognize the voice used?


Seems Natalie?
Best marketing ever!


----------



## Pier-V

Blancanegra said:


> Finally the demo that sold me product. I just preordered Asterian:
> 
> 
> 
> _"The highest note shown is B4, the second highest in the falsetto set, & the lowest is E2, the bottom of his recommended range."_



That's sort of how I expected the voicebank to sound after hearing the Youtube demos, so no real surprise in my case. Hopefully with some tweaking both inside SynthV and in the mixing stage it will be even possible to extend the low range by a couple of additional semitones, who knows. The one thing which was never actually showcased before is the falsetto range, and I have to say I quite like it. Just one little detail I noticed at around 0:08 and 0:16 - is it just me or the sound goes from nearly anechoic to slightly roomy with some early reflections for a brief moment during the flourishes?

Now there's only one remaining mistery: what happens if Asterian sings anything from Eb4 to F#4? Do I get a BSOD? Does the voicebank unauthorizes itself automatically out of sheer disgust for my insolence? _There's only one way to find out_ 😎


----------



## richiebee

Markrs said:


> That is a lot more impressive than the music demos


Yeah, they should have started with that one. Too late for me. I don't have any Black Friday money left. :D


----------



## ScarletJerry

Vlzmusic said:


> Anyone recognize the voice used?





raidergale said:


> Looks like Dreamtonics is finally putting some money towards advertisements. I've seen small ads before YouTube and Instagram videos, they recently opened a Facebook page, and now they just released this.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess this means they're doing relatively well?



That really sucks - now the secret is out!


----------



## Rikk

Do all voicebanks have the same available modes? 
I saw Eleanor Forte AI having:
Solid, Tender, Bold, Melancholic, Powerful, Dark.
If not, where can one see what is included, and hear examples? Dreamtronics website has no info that I could find.
Thanks!


----------



## odod

Some have different modes, you can read the description on their product page.

here : https://store.dreamtonics.com/product/vdb-natalie/

With the Synthesizer V Studio Pro editor, _Natalie_ users can also switch between five tones using the vocal modes feature: Soft, Soulful, Steady, Bold, and Warm. These different modes further extend _Natalie’s_ genre capabilities, and provide additional expressiveness by bringing out unique vocal styles. Thanks to Synthesizer V Studio Pro’s cross-lingual synthesis function, despite being an English native singer, _Natalie_ can also perform lyrics written in Japanese or Mandarin Chinese to an incredible standard of clarity. With _Natalie_, songwriters can add a new dimension of expressiveness and vocal style to their music all on their own.


----------



## bosone

... and finally we have the vocal modes exposed


----------



## Blancanegra

bosone said:


> ... and finally we have the vocal modes exposed



Gentle, rough, open...those are great!... but the theatrical mode is perhaps the most surprising because of how different it is from what we are used to. Finally we can try pieces of classic style!. Bravissimo!


----------



## Chungus

I pre-ordered Asterian the moment it was available, just because I want to support ES. And hearing the vocal modes, I'm extra glad I did. I wanted a male voice with more grit, and that's what I'm hearing. I wanted a operatic singer, this is one.

Granted, I had a baritone in mind when I said this, but hey, I'll take it! :D


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Chungus said:


> I pre-ordered Asterian the moment it was available, just because I want to support ES. And hearing the vocal modes, I'm extra glad I did. I wanted a male voice with more grit, and that's what I'm hearing. I wanted a operatic singer, this is one.
> 
> Granted, I had a baritone in mind when I said this, but hey, I'll take it! :D


Operatic grit... Theatrical + Rough (+ other vocal modes?) + saturation + vinylizer ( / make it sound like a very old recording (of AI vocals)) might be fun... maybe halfway through some more modern sounding effects kick in (Vocalsynth / crazy complex delays and so forth... IDK about autotune though). Heavy reverb on the vinyl crackle to make it sound (metaphorically) reminiscent of outer space, stars and dust drifting, flowing....


----------



## Anthony

Asterian is here!

The activation code just appeared in my inbox...


----------



## Vlzmusic

Yep, a first Xmas miracle this season  Asterian is here, and it is pretty good to work with, and many of the unpleasant things that were in the demos, can be avoided.

View attachment Aster_Madamina.mp3


----------



## becseigy

Does anyone know if the Asterian will be available in the Dreamtonics shop or will it only be available at Eclipsedsounds?
Any other places to buy it?


----------



## Blancanegra

Vlzmusic said:


> Yep, a first Xmas miracle this season  Asterian is here, and it is pretty good to work with, and many of the unpleasant things that were in the demos, can be avoided.
> 
> View attachment Aster_Madamina.mp3


Completely agree!

I previously prepared this demo with the voice of Kevin and Weina. The only tweaks I made before using Asterian: lengthening /n/ in sustained syllables and unsuccessfully lengthening /s t r/ in the word "stroke".

This morning before leaving for work I had 15 minutes to download and install Asterian, change the voice of the track, adjust intuitively (without hearing) the vocal modes in the low and high part and render. This is how it sounds out of the box in an easy listening or love ballad context:

One in a million you (Larry Graham) - Asterian
View attachment One in a million you - test.mp3


The only thing that can be judged properly in this demo is the singing style. The vibrato is terrific, and I can't wait to try it in an operatic context.


----------



## Blancanegra

becseigy said:


> Does anyone know if the Asterian will be available in the Dreamtonics shop or will it only be available at Eclipsedsounds?
> Any other places to buy it?


Only from Eclipsed Sounds for now.


----------



## becseigy

Thanks for the info. I don't know if it was already here, but now you can buy e.g. Kevin for less than 50 USD on DLsite (20% off + new registration coupon -15% off)
(Synthesizer V Pro also on sale)


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

becseigy said:


> Thanks for the info. I don't know if it was already here, but now you can buy e.g. Kevin for less than 50 USD on DLsite (20% off + new registration coupon -15% off)
> (Synthesizer V Pro also on sale)


Here's the link:






Synthesizer V 日本語作品 英語作品 言語不問作品 検索結果 | DLsite 美少女ゲーム


「DLsite 美少女ゲーム」はエロゲー・エロアニメ・アダルトアニメのダウンロードショップ。お気に入りの作品をすぐダウンロードできてすぐ楽しめる！毎日更新しているのであなたが探している作品にきっと出会えます。国内最大級の二次元総合ダウンロードショップ「DLsite」！ - Synthesizer V 日本語作品 英語作品 言語不問作品 検索結果




www.dlsite.com





No Natalie, Weina, or Eleanor Forte though.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

becseigy said:


> Thanks for the info. I don't know if it was already here, but now you can buy e.g. Kevin for less than 50 USD on DLsite (20% off + new registration coupon -15% off)
> (Synthesizer V Pro also on sale)


It's saying the new user coupon is 30% off... so Kevin should be .7*$55.99 *≈* $39.2

Same for Ryo and Saki....

.8*.7 = 0.56 so 44% off.

I hope they have this sale again next year. Spent enough for Black Friday so I'm going to wait... and hopefully by then they'll have more voicebanks. Wonder when the sale started, and when the new user coupon went to 30%... was it before Black Friday?

They also have some Japanese voicebanks (some AI, some not---looks like the more recent ones are all AI) I wasn't aware of. One of them isn't on sale though---"Chifuyu Hanakuma is a Japanese-language voice database featuring voice actress Kaya Okuno. Chifuyu's voice is low and satisfying voice, with a breathiness that makes it perfect for all genres of music."


----------



## becseigy

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> It's saying the new user coupon is 30% off... so Kevin should be .7*$55.99 *≈* $39.2
> 
> Same for Ryo and Saki....


When I registered I received a few coupons. To buy Kevin, I could have used only one of these two coupons: one for 300 Yen and another for (if I remember correctly) 15% off.
This is from my DLSite:
Purchased Product Total: 7,744 JPY
Use Coupon: 1,162 JPY
(Paid Total): 6,582 JPY. (~ for me it was about 49 USD)

Maybe I messed up, maybe someone else will have better luck with coupons.  Good luck.


----------



## richiebee

Sounds great @Vlzmusic and @Blancanegra . Eclipsed should have come here to get writers for their demos.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

becseigy said:


> When I registered I received a few coupons. To buy Kevin, I could have used only one of these two coupons: one for 300 Yen and another for (if I remember correctly) 15% off.
> This is from my DLSite:
> Purchased Product Total: 7,744 JPY
> Use Coupon: 1,162 JPY
> (Paid Total): 6,582 JPY. (~ for me it was about 49 USD)
> 
> Maybe I messed up, maybe someone else will have better luck with coupons.  Good luck.


Or maybe they increased the 15% off coupon to 30% off ?... maybe as part of a (pre-)holiday promotion.


----------



## Vlzmusic

You are good people and all, but now you made me buy both Ryo and Saki because of this new site promotion...


----------



## Raphioli

bosone said:


> ... and finally we have the vocal modes exposed



wow, this keeps evolving.

Wish they would sample Merethe Soltvedt...


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Loving Asterian but I ended up getting Kevin too (decided that sale was too good to pass up). The installer they sent me seems to be out of date because Kevin's lacking vocal modes and timbre retakes (it's definitely Kevin AI though)....


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Loving Asterian but I ended up getting Kevin too (decided that sale was too good to pass up). The installer they sent me seems to be out of date because Kevin's lacking vocal modes and timbre retakes (it's definitely Kevin AI though)....


Ah I see it checks for updates inside Synthesizer V in the license section (the checkmark inside the cloud), then you just have to scroll down to update it.


----------



## bosone

This was the first test that came to my mind.

No effects, just direct bounce from SynthV:



Project file is here, if you want to tweak! (please share your improvements!)


----------



## Pier-V

I've only just started experimenting with Asterian, but so far I can confirm the voicebank is extremely responsive to vocal modes and has a really beautiful falsetto and vibrato. On the other hand I'm having some trouble getting proper resonance in the voice below low F# and the intonation is out of tune here and there, but I don't consider neither of the two real issues since low range can be probably adjusted with proper use of vocal modes (I'm still familiarizing with them) and intonation is incredibly easy to correct with the pitchshift function - many times on the first try even.

Can't wait to write for voice ensemble, I think I'm _slowly_ getting better at writing lyrics but it's still the most time consuming part of the process by far. So I was wondering, just in case, do any of you know if there is an online resource for English poems in public domain? Anything from middle age to contemporary is fine, as long as the content is interesting, evocative or original.


----------



## bosone

Pier-V said:


> if there is an online resource for English poems in public domain? Anything from middle age to contemporary is fine, as long as the content is interesting, evocative or original.


This would be interesting to me too!


----------



## mothershout

Pier-V said:


> So I was wondering, just in case, do any of you know if there is an online resource for English poems in public domain? Anything from middle age to contemporary is fine, as long as the content is interesting, evocative or original.


Well, there's https://www.public-domain-poetry.com/


----------



## Pier-V

mothershout said:


> Well, there's https://www.public-domain-poetry.com/


Amazing, thank you! I've already found plenty of great sources of inspiration. Maybe it was just sheer luck, but Sara Teasdale in particular has a particularly musical style with evocative lyrics, it could be a good match for my writing style, who knows. Appearently she lived between 1884 and 1933, a great time to write poetry - and now, to quote a famous song from the internet age, "I've experiments to run, there is research to be done"


----------



## ScarletJerry

Great stuff so far. Keep the demos coming! I’m eager to hear more of the theatrical style. I have a feeling that someone will cover “Old Man River” soon.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## David Cuny

Pier-V said:


> Amazing, thank you! I've already found plenty of great sources of inspiration. Maybe it was just sheer luck, but Sara Teasdale in particular has a particularly musical style with evocative lyrics, it could be a good match for my writing style, who knows.


I remember her from Ray Bradbury's short story "There Will Come Soft Rains".


----------



## Phillip Dixon

Got to say, I was disappointed when I heard the first demo's of Asterian 
But after hearing some of what you guy's have done with the voice, I'm impressed


----------



## Loïc D

Just to be sure : there's no loyalty price for Asterian when you already own Solaria, right?


----------



## mothershout

In non-Asterian-related news, I finished up another SynthV-voiced song. Might be up on Spotify by the time I post this, but it’s definitely on Youtube.

This uses Solaria, Natalie, Weina and Kevin. The lead is Solaria, with Natalie and Weina doing harmonies; generally lower lines, because that lets Solaria’s superior pronunciation dominate. I still find Weina in particular takes a lot of phoneme work. I’m going to use Natalie for the lead in the next song just to get more practice in tweaking her words.

Kevin was used exclusively for lower vocal lines, where the female voices lose punch at the lower ends of their ranges. I was surprised by how easy it was to copy Solaria’s lines to a Kevin track and transpose them; not very much pronunciation correction needed.

I don’t remember who on here suggested it, but the trick of slightly detuning voices by a few cents certainly helps to avoid harmonies seeming too artificial (unless I’m suffering from confirmation bias). I also found that with two of the same voices singing together, *small* tweaks to gender helps avoid too much blending.

In this project, I used a single multi-output instance of the SynthV plugin (1.7.1) in Logic for most of the work. That worked pretty well, though a couple of times I worked on it as an external SynthV file in the standalone app, just to be able to use the full screen and avoid some of the irritating bugs in the plugin. Towards the end of the project I rendered all the vocals tracks to audio files (letting Logic do it rather than SynthV) so that I could turn the plugin off and automate levels in Logic. Vocals run through a single bus which has iZotope’s Nectar Pro EQ and compression on.

Also: Modartt’s Pianoteq 8 and Spitfire’s BBC Symphony Orchestra Core, both of which fight for winner of my personal Best Use Of Money award.

Oh - and the artwork is also AI. It was rendered by Stable Diffusion.

Now I can finally let SynthV upgrade itself to 1.8!


----------



## AceAudioHQ

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> No Natalie, Weina, or Eleanor Forte though.


It's AH-Soft's store, they sell only what AH-Soft sells (and develops?), maybe they will start selling the newer banks later on (unless they only sell their own products + synth v pro). They do have some of the older english voices there, koharu rikka, tsurumaki maki


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Or maybe they increased the 15% off coupon to 30% off ?... maybe as part of a (pre-)holiday promotion.


They gave me both the 30% off coupon and the 15% off coupon. The 30% off coupon expires after a few days but the 15% off coupon has no expiration date. They can't be stacked.


----------



## Blancanegra

Blancanegra said:


> Completely agree!
> 
> I previously prepared this demo with the voice of Kevin and Weina. The only tweaks I made before using Asterian: lengthening /n/ in sustained syllables and unsuccessfully lengthening /s t r/ in the word "stroke".
> 
> This morning before leaving for work I had 15 minutes to download and install Asterian, change the voice of the track, adjust intuitively (without hearing) the vocal modes in the low and high part and render. This is how it sounds out of the box in an easy listening or love ballad context:
> 
> One in a million you (Larry Graham) - Asterian
> View attachment One in a million you - test.mp3
> 
> 
> The only thing that can be judged properly in this demo is the singing style. The vibrato is terrific, and I can't wait to try it in an operatic context.


Finished this demo, with proper use of vocal modes and performance improvements. 

One in a million you (Larry Graham) - Asterian 1.0, SV 1.8
View attachment One in a million you - Asterian 1.0 test.mp3


As bonus, a fragment in theatrical vocal mode:
View attachment One in a million you - Asterian Theatrical 1.0 test.mp3



The project file is attached, enjoy!


----------



## BluesCat

Wow- What an improvement from the early official demos. Well done.


----------



## David Cuny

Blancanegra said:


> The project file is attached, enjoy!


But the project file only _really_ works if we've got Asterian!

Is this some trick to get us all to buy the voicebank? Because it's working, darned it!


----------



## ScarletJerry

Blancanegra said:


> Finished this demo, with proper use of vocal modes and performance improvements.
> 
> One in a million you (Larry Graham) - Asterian 1.0, SV 1.8
> View attachment One in a million you - Asterian 1.0 test.mp3
> 
> 
> As bonus, a fragment in theatrical vocal mode:
> View attachment One in a million you - Asterian Theatrical 1.0 test.mp3
> 
> 
> 
> The project file is attached, enjoy!


Nailed it...again!


----------



## Rikk

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Here's the link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthesizer V 日本語作品 英語作品 言語不問作品 検索結果 | DLsite 美少女ゲーム
> 
> 
> 「DLsite 美少女ゲーム」はエロゲー・エロアニメ・アダルトアニメのダウンロードショップ。お気に入りの作品をすぐダウンロードできてすぐ楽しめる！毎日更新しているのであなたが探している作品にきっと出会えます。国内最大級の二次元総合ダウンロードショップ「DLsite」！ - Synthesizer V 日本語作品 英語作品 言語不問作品 検索結果
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dlsite.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No Natalie, Weina, or Eleanor Forte though.


It worked, thanks! I got Kevin + Synth V for $85 total. PITA to go through the purchase, first make sure you apply the 30% discount before Finalizing Purchase (it looks to be applied at first, but not when you are supposed to click purchase). Then my Capital One card didn't work and I wasted 45min with their fraud dept trying to figure it out. My Chase card went through, np.

To begin:
* You need to register for an account.
* Then register the 30% off code.
* Then register a cc.

The serials show up right away after the purchase clears.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

I'm struggling a bit, to buy or not to, I really dislike Kevin but the price is so low and it might be ok as a backing vocal blended with other voices


----------



## odod

AceAudioHQ said:


> I'm struggling a bit, to buy or not to, I really dislike Kevin but the price is so low and it might be ok as a backing vocal blended with other voices


hmm, Kevin is good you know? I loved his voice .. :D


----------



## AceAudioHQ

odod said:


> hmm, Kevin is good you know? I loved his voice .. :D


I don’t like kevin’s timbre at all and it’s not nearly loud enough to sound good in a high energy song (a common problem with all the voices, but especially kevin). To me it sounds like someone, who is not a pro singer, singing at home


----------



## odod

AceAudioHQ said:


> I don’t like kevin’s timbre at all and it’s not nearly loud enough to sound good in a high energy song (a common problem with all the voices, but especially kevin). To me it sounds like someone, who is not a pro singer, singing at home


Ahh I see, I agree with the powerless part tho .. that is why I am hoping to seek another voice so I can complete S, A, T, B to make my choir class easier ..


----------



## Rikk

AceAudioHQ said:


> I'm struggling a bit, to buy or not to, I really dislike Kevin but the price is so low and it might be ok as a backing vocal blended with other voices


Same here, did not like him at all when I listened to old renderings. But then I searched YouTube with "Synthesizer V Kevin AI" and filtered with "Last month". The results: wow #%@¤ awsome!


----------



## Markrs

Welcome to DLsite | Manga, games, anime, audio works, and more...


Your favorites are waiting! Manga, games, anime, audio works, and more...! The online shop where 2D becomes reality!




www.dlsite.com





Discount code: DLsiteWelcome30


----------



## bosone

Markrs said:


> Welcome to DLsite | Manga, games, anime, audio works, and more...
> 
> 
> Your favorites are waiting! Manga, games, anime, audio works, and more...! The online shop where 2D becomes reality!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dlsite.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discount code: DLsiteWelcome30


i cannot proceed...​​403 ERROR​The request could not be satisfied.​Request blocked. We can't connect to the server for this app or website at this time. There might be too much traffic or a configuration error. Try again later, or contact the app or website owner.
If you provide content to customers through CloudFront, you can find steps to troubleshoot and help prevent this error by reviewing the CloudFront documentation.


----------



## Blancanegra

mothershout said:


> In non-Asterian-related news, I finished up another SynthV-voiced song. Might be up on Spotify by the time I post this, but it’s definitely on Youtube.
> 
> This uses Solaria, Natalie, Weina and Kevin. The lead is Solaria, with Natalie and Weina doing harmonies; generally lower lines, because that lets Solaria’s superior pronunciation dominate. I still find Weina in particular takes a lot of phoneme work. I’m going to use Natalie for the lead in the next song just to get more practice in tweaking her words.
> 
> Kevin was used exclusively for lower vocal lines, where the female voices lose punch at the lower ends of their ranges. I was surprised by how easy it was to copy Solaria’s lines to a Kevin track and transpose them; not very much pronunciation correction needed.
> 
> I don’t remember who on here suggested it, but the trick of slightly detuning voices by a few cents certainly helps to avoid harmonies seeming too artificial (unless I’m suffering from confirmation bias). I also found that with two of the same voices singing together, *small* tweaks to gender helps avoid too much blending.
> 
> In this project, I used a single multi-output instance of the SynthV plugin (1.7.1) in Logic for most of the work. That worked pretty well, though a couple of times I worked on it as an external SynthV file in the standalone app, just to be able to use the full screen and avoid some of the irritating bugs in the plugin. Towards the end of the project I rendered all the vocals tracks to audio files (letting Logic do it rather than SynthV) so that I could turn the plugin off and automate levels in Logic. Vocals run through a single bus which has iZotope’s Nectar Pro EQ and compression on.
> 
> Also: Modartt’s Pianoteq 8 and Spitfire’s BBC Symphony Orchestra Core, both of which fight for winner of my personal Best Use Of Money award.
> 
> Oh - and the artwork is also AI. It was rendered by Stable Diffusion.
> 
> Now I can finally let SynthV upgrade itself to 1.8!


Wow, beautiful harmonies, I was pleasantly surprised. I love the mood of the song and how it evolves along time, impressive work!
I mentioned the trick of detuning the voices (I did it on kevin's "Dolce Vita" demo), but I have only repeated the same thing that I read elsewhere.


----------



## Markrs

bosone said:


> i cannot proceed...​​403 ERROR​The request could not be satisfied.​Request blocked. We can't connect to the server for this app or website at this time. There might be too much traffic or a configuration error. Try again later, or contact the app or website owner.
> If you provide content to customers through CloudFront, you can find steps to troubleshoot and help prevent this error by reviewing the CloudFront documentation.


I was having that problem yesterday. Seemed to work okay first thing this morning in the UK, around 6am GMT.


----------



## bosone

will try on the next days then...


----------



## zinct

Another new demo...


mothershout said:


> In non-Asterian-related news, I finished up another SynthV-voiced song. Might be up on Spotify by the time I post this, but it’s definitely on Youtube.
> 
> This uses Solaria, Natalie, Weina and Kevin. The lead is Solaria, with Natalie and Weina doing harmonies; generally lower lines, because that lets Solaria’s superior pronunciation dominate. I still find Weina in particular takes a lot of phoneme work. I’m going to use Natalie for the lead in the next song just to get more practice in tweaking her words.
> 
> Kevin was used exclusively for lower vocal lines, where the female voices lose punch at the lower ends of their ranges. I was surprised by how easy it was to copy Solaria’s lines to a Kevin track and transpose them; not very much pronunciation correction needed.
> 
> I don’t remember who on here suggested it, but the trick of slightly detuning voices by a few cents certainly helps to avoid harmonies seeming too artificial (unless I’m suffering from confirmation bias). I also found that with two of the same voices singing together, *small* tweaks to gender helps avoid too much blending.
> 
> In this project, I used a single multi-output instance of the SynthV plugin (1.7.1) in Logic for most of the work. That worked pretty well, though a couple of times I worked on it as an external SynthV file in the standalone app, just to be able to use the full screen and avoid some of the irritating bugs in the plugin. Towards the end of the project I rendered all the vocals tracks to audio files (letting Logic do it rather than SynthV) so that I could turn the plugin off and automate levels in Logic. Vocals run through a single bus which has iZotope’s Nectar Pro EQ and compression on.
> 
> Also: Modartt’s Pianoteq 8 and Spitfire’s BBC Symphony Orchestra Core, both of which fight for winner of my personal Best Use Of Money award.
> 
> Oh - and the artwork is also AI. It was rendered by Stable Diffusion.
> 
> Now I can finally let SynthV upgrade itself to 1.8!


Congratulations on what is a very beautiful original song and superb vocal harmonies! The vocal levels are very well balanced for the harmonies. The change to a softer vocal tone at 2:44 is really effective. I picked up on a few minor timing differences in the vocals here and there, which I assume is deliberate as it helps to make the overall performance sound "real".

I played it to a few people and they all loved it, and some asked the name of the band or the singer! They were shocked when I told them that the voices were computer-generated courtesy of Synth V (albeit with a fair degree of skilled manual tweaking, not to mention the music production).

Thank you also for the details that you provided which are interesting and useful. I have Solaria (great) and Kevin (okay) and will probably add Asterian and Natalie soon. I have been considering Weina but I wondered about the amount of work required to correct her English pronunciation which you also mention.


----------



## Blancanegra

It's still too early to judge since it's just a quick draft to test the theatrical vocal mode, and it's in the tenor register but... what do you think?

Nessum Dorma - Asterianotti  1.0, SV 1.8
View attachment Nessum Dorma test.mp3


Theatrical vocal mode 100%

It's a pity that the opportunity was not taken to record and include the rolling R, I had to try different ideas to recreate it. 

Hi @Rob !


----------



## Rob

Blancanegra said:


> It's still too early to judge since it's just a quick draft to test the theatrical vocal mode, and it's in the tenor register but... what do you think?
> 
> Nessum Dorma - Asterianotti  1.0, SV 1.8
> View attachment Nessum Dorma test.mp3
> 
> 
> Theatrical vocal mode 100%
> 
> It's a pity that the opportunity was not taken to record and include the rolling R, I had to try different ideas to recreate it.
> 
> Hi @Rob !


hi Blancanegra! It's not bad, what voice is this? As you say, the english "r" is out of this style, though at the beginning you were able (as always) to find a way to do it.

EDIT: I see, Asterian!


----------



## Blancanegra

Rob said:


> hi Blancanegra! It's not bad, what voice is this? As you say, the english "r" is out of this style, though at the beginning you were able (as always) to find a way to do it.


The voice is Asterian, a recent released bass voice.


----------



## zinct

Blancanegra said:


> It's still too early to judge since it's just a quick draft to test the theatrical vocal mode, and it's in the tenor register but... what do you think?
> 
> Nessum Dorma - Asterianotti  1.0, SV 1.8
> View attachment Nessum Dorma test.mp3
> 
> 
> Theatrical vocal mode 100%
> 
> It's a pity that the opportunity was not taken to record and include the rolling R, I had to try different ideas to recreate it.
> 
> Hi @Rob !


Wow, that's impressive! How did you achieve the rolling R's?


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> It's still too early to judge since it's just a quick draft to test the theatrical vocal mode, and it's in the tenor register but... what do you think?
> 
> Nessum Dorma - Asterianotti  1.0, SV 1.8
> View attachment Nessum Dorma test.mp3
> 
> 
> Theatrical vocal mode 100%
> 
> It's a pity that the opportunity was not taken to record and include the rolling R, I had to try different ideas to recreate it.
> 
> Hi @Rob !


Cool test. This might sound better without theatrical maybe, more like Bocelli or Paul Potts.

(small typo there: Nessum is Nessun meaning no-one)


----------



## Markrs

bosone said:


> i cannot proceed...​​403 ERROR​The request could not be satisfied.​Request blocked. We can't connect to the server for this app or website at this time. There might be too much traffic or a configuration error. Try again later, or contact the app or website owner.
> If you provide content to customers through CloudFront, you can find steps to troubleshoot and help prevent this error by reviewing the CloudFront documentation.


It seems to be working at the moment. At the moment the registration page doesn’t want to load even though the general website now loads.


----------



## Markrs

When you add your Credit Card, you bank might block it as DLSite will do a $0.01 transaction to confirm the card. Mine was blocked but my bank sent a text asking for confirmation that the transaction was by me and then unblocked it.

The discounts you get on DLSite are:


----------



## Blancanegra

zinct said:


> Wow, that's impressive! How did you achieve the rolling R's?


It was easier than I expected!:






I have used the closest phonemes, which are /r/ and /dx/, repeating them in a different number of cycles. I have created a dictionary (the first time I use it) and I have created new words, indicating the sequence of phonemes: r5, r6, r7...
for example, r5 is a 5-cycle RR, r6 is 6 cycles, etc. (can you notice my mistake in the image?).
I used /r/ as in an out phoneme for connecting with adjacent syllabes, but maybe you want to try your own per case combinations.
After several unsuccessful tests writing those sequences into the syllabes, it's best to create the rolling R as a single note and adjust its duration to taste, and try with r5, r6 or r7, until you find something valid.
It is something simple but very effective and saves a lot of time.
Come to think of it, I haven't taken advantage of switching languages by syllable yet, I'm sure it will be a very useful feature to improve Italian.



soulofsound said:


> Cool test. This might sound better without theatrical maybe, more like Bocelli or Paul Potts.
> 
> (small typo there: Nessum is Nessun meaning no-one)


Ooops, yes it's Nessun, thank you!. I'm still finding the sweet spot blending with other modes, but I am not very used to opera, and it is even more difficult for me since Asterian is not a tenor and the timbre is very different. It will be fun!.


----------



## bosone

Markrs said:


> It seems to be working at the moment. At the moment the registration page doesn’t want to load even though the general website now loads.


Still no success but thanks for the notice... -/


----------



## Markrs

Well I have followed this thread from the very beginning (there was even an early thread that talked about all the different synth voices in the market) but had never bought Synth V.

Now with the discount from DLsite it meant I got both Synth V and Kevin voicebank for under $85. Hard to complain at that price. Now looking forward to going back over all the tips and tricks in this thread 😆


----------



## Rikk

This is one of the Kevin songs that sounds much better than anything old imo:


----------



## richiebee

Working on something a bit different for Kevin. This is probably Kevin in 20 years after smoking a couple of packs of smokes every day. Might change it out for Asteria if I decide to buy... its definitely what I was expecting to do when I started working on it, but you know, I think Kevin might be able to pull this off with a bit more work. The whole thing is very unfinished, but since there's some conversation around Kevin, I thought someone might benefit from a listen to Kevin in a non-boy band or young musical theatre style. 

View attachment sailor (2).mp3


----------



## soulofsound

This one i came across when youtubing:


----------



## Marsen

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Synthesizer V 日本語作品 英語作品 言語不問作品 検索結果 | DLsite 美少女ゲーム
> 
> 
> 「DLsite 美少女ゲーム」はエロゲー・エロアニメ・アダルトアニメのダウンロードショップ。お気に入りの作品をすぐダウンロードできてすぐ楽しめる！毎日更新しているのであなたが探している作品にきっと出会えます。国内最大級の二次元総合ダウンロードショップ「DLsite」！ - Synthesizer V 日本語作品 英語作品 言語不問作品 検索結果
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dlsite.com





Markrs said:


> Welcome to DLsite | Manga, games, anime, audio works, and more...
> 
> 
> Your favorites are waiting! Manga, games, anime, audio works, and more...! The online shop where 2D becomes reality!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dlsite.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discount code: DLsiteWelcome30


What the heck is going on here?
You‘re sending me to a Manga Porn site? Seriously?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Marsen said:


> What the heck is going on here?
> You‘re sending me to a Manga Porno site? Seriously?


Welcome to japanese internet 🙃


----------



## philthevoid

Hello all!

Since Asterian released, I've been testing a few little snippets of christmas songs in SATB format just for fun.

Turns out pretty good!

Here's the chorus from Let It Snow! with Solaria, Mai, Kevin and Asterian. This is a bit too high for Asterian and it's the main reason I didn't keep going (and lowered him slightly in the mix).
View attachment LetItSnow1.mp3


On that note, here's one where Asterian sings lower. Though it's not the same vibe at all.

Picture the same 4 singers as above, each in front of their own mic, in a church, with their individual choir section right behind them as support. Works pretty well I think! Not my type of song usually but I had a sheet laying around and it was still a fun little piece to do.
View attachment OHolyNight.mp3


This is encouraging I think. I'll be in the lookout for good arrangements of Let It Snow or similarly upbeat songs. I'll work on it in Synth-V, then I'll go door to door and play it to people.  Just kidding, just kidding.


----------



## jbuhler

richiebee said:


> Working on something a bit different for Kevin. This is probably Kevin in 20 years after smoking a couple of packs of smokes every day. Might change it out for Asteria if I decide to buy... its definitely what I was expecting to do when I started working on it, but you know, I think Kevin might be able to pull this off with a bit more work. The whole thing is very unfinished, but since there's some conversation around Kevin, I thought someone might benefit from a listen to Kevin in a non-boy band or young musical theatre style.
> 
> View attachment sailor (2).mp3


I like Kevin here. Mostly my issue with his voice is that it sounds bland. It’s generally not bad just boring. Here the voice has real grain and something to work with.


----------



## Markrs

Marsen said:


> What the heck is going on here?
> You‘re sending me to a Manga Porno site? Seriously?


I didn't check the content on the rest of the site 😂 

I checked to make sure the website and company were legit and then just went to Synth V to buy it along with Kevin voicepack


----------



## Lunatique

I found this thread yesterday by accident, and it's kinda turned my world upside down. The current state of the virtual singer technology is like a dream-come-true for me.

I'm one of those guys who absolutely adore female vocals, and the majority of the music I listen to has female vocals. For my own music, I tend to compose scores for film/games, because I'm not a fan of my own voice, and when I write songs, I prefer to write for a female singer. I used to work as a songwriter for Chinese pop stars in the 90s, then later as composer for media, but I don't do music professionally anymore. Now for my own personal enjoyment, I'd love to write some songs for myself, but finding a female vocalist to work with whose vocal tone I really like is very hard because people have their own agendas and logistical needs and there's also the cost and contractual details and other business type stuff that I got out of the music industry to not have to deal with anymore.

Back in the early days of Vocaloid, I was intrigued by the concept and had hoped I could have a virtual female singer to write songs for, but absolutely hated the robotic sound and all the nasally infantile anime voices, and this is coming from a guy who grew up with anime and became a professional comic book writer/artist (my first career) in no small part due to anime. And over the years, despite improvements, it never reached the realism I hoped for. So it was to my shock when I saw this thread and heard the examples. Dreamtonics' take of the concept is by far the most natural and convincing sounding example, and I think with careful tweaking, is good enough to fool anyone, and will finally fulfill the dream I've had for decades--to be able to create female-vocal songs for myself that I can't sing due to my gender, but have a dedicated female singer in my place to sing them.

I tried to read as many pages of this thread as I could, so I could learn all I need before jumping in. But after about 24 pages I've gotten quite impatient. So I figured I'd just ask some quick questions so I can get started immediately.

1) Currently there are a few sites linked in this thread that sell VSynth related products, and I assume they are more or less the same, other than whatever current sale that might be going on, and/or which ones might have exclusivity to certain voice banks? Or there are specific sites that are the best when it comes discounts? (I'm mainly interested in Feng Yi, Mai, and Solaria).

2) I've seen conflicting information on the standard voices vs the AI ones. My understanding is that the AI voices are better because they benefit from neural network analysis that will automatically make the performances more expressive and believable. But if so, why is there a non-AI version if it's "worse"? What am I missing?

3) I assume the quickest way to get started is to just buy a Studio Pro + voice pack(s) combo and jump in? Or there are other things I should learn/do first before that step? I know there's the free version I can download and play around with, but after seeing features comparisons between the two I don't see any reason why I wouldn't want the pro version. Basically, anything else I should know first?


----------



## David Cuny

Lunatique said:


> 1) Currently there are a few sites linked in this thread that sell VSynth related products, and I assume they are more or less the same, other than whatever current sale that might be going on, and/or which ones might have exclusivity to certain voice banks? Or there are specific sites that are the best when it comes discounts? (I'm mainly interested in Feng Yi, Mai, and Solaria).


Weina is a "premium" voice, which is why it's priced higher than other voices.

The other voices are roughly equivalent in capabilities, but not necessarily in terms of range, appeal and clarity.




Lunatique said:


> 2) I've seen conflicting information on the standard voices vs the AI ones. My understanding is that the AI voices are better because they benefit from neural network analysis that will automatically make the performances more expressive and believable. But if so, why is there a non-AI version if it's "worse"? What am I missing?


Standard voices came first, and not all voices have been migrated over, or perhaps sampled deeply enough to be converted to AI voices.

Additionally, AI voices are trained in the voice "style", which allows them to "humanize" pitch variations to mimic the voice of the provider. This is where a lot of the realism comes from.

Think of standard voices as earlier versions of Vocaloid voices, in that some people continue to use them because that's the only version of that voice that's available.

That said, see the prior page on how to get a discount on the program.


Lunatique said:


> 3) I assume the quickest way to get started is to just buy a Studio Pro + voice pack(s) combo and jump in? Or there are other things I should learn/do first before that step? I know there's the free version I can download and play around with, but after seeing features comparisons between the two I don't see any reason why I wouldn't want the pro version. Basically, anything else I should know first?


If you're sure you want to take the plunge, then go for it.

Take the time to go through the video tutorials that have been provided, and be sure to download any demo project you can to understand how people are making the magic happen.

It's similar enough to _Vocaloid_ that you'll catch on quickly - but you'll eventually want to make sure you understand how things unique to _SynthesizerV_ work. For example, *Vocal Modes* are key to getting from a soft voice to a belting voice, but you'll need to use *Groups* to make that happen.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Markrs said:


> I checked to make sure the website and company were legit and then just went to Synth V to buy it along with Kevin voicepack



So you bought Synth V Pro there as well? It works properly? As I noticed there is disclaimer that software bought there needs Japanese language system to operate.


----------



## stigbn

Lunatique said:


> But if so, why is there a non-AI version if it's "worse"? What am I missing?


Some people like the non-AI version because they feel that the AI version take away some of the editing possibilities, they feel that the result is less of their own making, and sometimes they have a different timbre. You can get some of the lite versions for free (eleanor forte non-ai lite can be found) and some of the japanese voices you can find lite versions (free) of both AI and non AI so you can test the difference. The lite versions can't sing in more than one language though.
I would not recommend the non-AI as the AI-version generally have much better pronounciation.


----------



## J. H. Smith

richiebee said:


> Working on something a bit different for Kevin. This is probably Kevin in 20 years after smoking a couple of packs of smokes every day. Might change it out for Asteria if I decide to buy... its definitely what I was expecting to do when I started working on it, but you know, I think Kevin might be able to pull this off with a bit more work. The whole thing is very unfinished, but since there's some conversation around Kevin, I thought someone might benefit from a listen to Kevin in a non-boy band or young musical theatre style.
> 
> View attachment sailor (2).mp3


Wow! Here, he is starting to sound pretty close to Brett Sparks of The Handsome Family, that I've been nagging about.
Is this a secret sauce or would you perhaps share the recipie eventually?

Marvellous music…


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Lunatique said:


> 1) Currently there are a few sites linked in this thread that sell VSynth related products, and I assume they are more or less the same, other than whatever current sale that might be going on, and/or which ones might have exclusivity to certain voice banks? Or there are specific sites that are the best when it comes discounts? (I'm mainly interested in Feng Yi, Mai, and Solaria).


Dreamtonics store is the only one where you can get a discount on solaria since there you can bundle it with synth v pro, then there’s anicute and ah-soft which have some, usually very tiny discounts or bundles. The only site where there are bigger discounts is the recently found dlsite.com, where ah-soft sells the same banks as ah-soft store but at the moment with 20% off, and you can use vouchers to get even a deeper discount, but the vocal bank selection is limited, unless you also count japanese language banks. Some banks like Anri is only sold through their own site, these are rarely, if ever discounted


----------



## zinct

Blancanegra said:


> It was easier than I expected!:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have used the closest phonemes, which are /r/ and /dx/, repeating them in a different number of cycles. I have created a dictionary (the first time I use it) and I have created new words, indicating the sequence of phonemes: r5, r6, r7...
> for example, r5 is a 5-cycle RR, r6 is 6 cycles, etc. (can you notice my mistake in the image?).
> I used /r/ as in an out phoneme for connecting with adjacent syllabes, but maybe you want to try your own per case combinations.
> After several unsuccessful tests writing those sequences into the syllabes, it's best to create the rolling R as a single note and adjust its duration to taste, and try with r5, r6 or r7, until you find something valid.
> It is something simple but very effective and saves a lot of time.
> Come to think of it, I haven't taken advantage of switching languages by syllable yet, I'm sure it will be a very useful feature to improve Italian.


Thanks for your detailed reply; I shall give this a go.
Also, the idea of adding words with specific pronunciations to a dictionary is useful.
e.g. I find Kevin pronounces "planted" more like "plantered". The default phonemes are "Pl ae n t ax d" so I changed the ax to eh which seems to have corrected it and I have saved that to a new dictionary.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

AceAudioHQ said:


> Dreamtonics store is the only one where you can get a discount on solaria since there you can bundle it with synth v pro, then there’s anicute and ah-soft which have some, usually very tiny discounts or bundles. The only site where there are bigger discounts is the recently found dlsite.com, where ah-soft sells the same banks as ah-soft store but at the moment with 20% off, and you can use vouchers to get even a deeper discount, but the vocal bank selection is limited, unless you also count japanese language banks. Some banks like Anri is only sold through their own site, these are rarely, if ever discounted


Eclipsed Sounds is also offering 25% off Solaria if you get the Solaria+Asterian bundle.


----------



## Blancanegra

Blancanegra said:


> It's still too early to judge since it's just a quick draft to test the theatrical vocal mode, and it's in the tenor register but... what do you think?
> 
> Nessum Dorma - Asterianotti  1.0, SV 1.8
> View attachment Nessum Dorma test.mp3
> 
> 
> Theatrical vocal mode 100%
> 
> It's a pity that the opportunity was not taken to record and include the rolling R, I had to try different ideas to recreate it.
> 
> Hi @Rob !


I've had a little time to edit some performance, dynamics, some rubatto and portamento, and create a fast mockup and bad backing track (I now feel the need for a cheap VST orchestra to get started in this world).

I think we have the first bass opera singer! The experts will say.

Nessun Dorma test - Asterian 1.0, SV 1.8
View attachment Nessum Dorma test.mp3


----------



## Marsen

Markrs said:


> I didn't check the content on the rest of the site 😂
> 
> I checked to make sure the website and company were legit and then just went to Synth V to buy it along with Kevin voicepack


I just tried to follow the instructions.
First thing what confused me, was the requirement to enter your age for registration!?

Then, checking for the coupons, thumbnails with manga porn came up.
The next thing I did was, I deleted my just created account.

It‘s the most shady experience, trying to buy a vst I‘ve ever had.
I‘m not sure, what to do know, if I want to buy Synth V, without ending with endless japanese spam porn in my mailbox.
Is it really legit to enter your credit card infos on such a site?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Eclipsed Sounds is also offering 25% off Solaria if you get the Solaria+Asterian bundle.


It says it was only valid until December 1st


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

AceAudioHQ said:


> It says it was only valid until December 1st


Just checked, 25% off is still working in cart. Though that could be because the Asterian 10% discount was extended to December 9th, I was under the impression that the bundle 25% discount had no expiration date....


----------



## AceAudioHQ

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> I was under the impression that the bundle 25% discount had no expiration date....


This is what their twitter said earlier, they said later that they extended them for a week, but sounds like the bundle discount is only temporary. Doesn’t matter to me since I already have solaria. But I guess the 25% off still works for a few days


----------



## shapeshifter00

I was mindblown when I saw this. Instant purchase. Got synth V pro with Solaria and works well as a vsti in Cubase 12. Composers can now become even more antisocial 😅


----------



## zinct

Blancanegra said:


> I've had a little time to edit some performance, dynamics, some rubatto and portamento, and create a fast mockup and bad backing track (I now feel the need for a cheap VST orchestra to get started in this world).
> 
> I think we have the first bass opera singer! The experts will say.
> 
> Nessun Dorma test - Asterian 1.0, SV 1.8
> View attachment Nessum Dorma test.mp3


Bravo Blancanegra! I have to say that I have been pretty amazed at what you and others on here have coaxed out of some of these Synth V voicebanks, but this is seriously next-level.


----------



## raidergale

Blancanegra said:


> I've had a little time to edit some performance, dynamics, some rubatto and portamento, and create a fast mockup and bad backing track (I now feel the need for a cheap VST orchestra to get started in this world).
> 
> I think we have the first bass opera singer! The experts will say.
> 
> Nessun Dorma test - Asterian 1.0, SV 1.8
> View attachment Nessum Dorma test.mp3


This just makes me want more voices with an operatic vocal mode.
Prima and Tonio for VOCALOID2 sounded absolutely great for their time, but they're inherently extremely niche due to their opera-only focus.
With SynthV vocal modes you can release a more "commercial" sounding voicebank, while also offering an option to go into the typical opera sound if needed.
Great work!


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> I've had a little time to edit some performance, dynamics, some rubatto and portamento, and create a fast mockup and bad backing track (I now feel the need for a cheap VST orchestra to get started in this world).
> 
> I think we have the first bass opera singer! The experts will say.
> 
> Nessun Dorma test - Asterian 1.0, SV 1.8
> View attachment Nessum Dorma test.mp3


OMG can't wait to hear the rest (hoping he gets it right in the higher register)

Superb result, thanks so much for posting!


----------



## Markrs

Piotrek K. said:


> So you bought Synth V Pro there as well? It works properly? As I noticed there is disclaimer that software bought there needs Japanese language system to operate.


I haven't noticed any issues, though I got it late last night and I have been out today so not properly checked it out, but all the text was in English.


----------



## Markrs

Marsen said:


> I just tried to follow the instructions.
> First thing what confused me, was the requirement to enter your age for registration!?
> 
> Then, checking for the coupons, thumbnails with manga porn came up.
> The next thing I did was, I deleted my just created account.
> 
> It‘s the most shady experience, trying to buy a vst I‘ve ever had.
> I‘m not sure, what to do know, if I want to buy Synth V, without ending with endless japanese spam porn in my mailbox.
> Is it really legit to enter your credit card infos on such a site?


I must have blocked all that out, in fairness it was quite late when I managed to get access to the site, as previously it wouldn't load. It was a strange experience ordering but it was fine. They take credit card but you can pay via many methods including crypto, though no paypal.

I checked the site out on google and they come up as legit. I think of some of the plugins sites I buy from and many of those look a bit strange and old though of course they don't have manga porn 😂


----------



## raidergale

Yeah, DLSite is legit, but it's a very Japan-centric website and indeed it also offers a lot of adult comics and such.

The only way to use PayPal would be to buy points with PayPal and then use those points to buy whatever, I don't really know why they don't allow it for the actual checkout process, but at least it's an option I guess, albeit a convoluted one


----------



## richiebee

J. H. Smith said:


> Wow! Here, he is starting to sound pretty close to Brett Sparks of The Handsome Family, that I've been nagging about.
> Is this a secret sauce or would you perhaps share the recipie eventually?
> 
> Marvellous music…


Yeah, no secret. I'm not sure what to give you in terms of file (I can't seem to upload an svp). Settings are - 

Belt: 150%
Clear: 0
Soft: 130
Solid: 0

Loud: 6.45
Tension: -0.120
Breathiness: 0.085
Gender: 0.5
Tone Shift: 167

Defaults - 

Pitch Left: 0.420
Pitch Right: 0.275
Depth Left: -1.64
Depth Right: 1.71
Vibrato Start: 0.360
Left: 0.47
Right: 0.50
Depth: 1.46
Freq: 1.96

I'm using a custom pitch tuning to influence the above settings. They don't work in a particularly obvious way with the above settings, so it was just lots of trial and error - 

Expressiveness: 116
Vibrato 1: 22
Vibrato 2 : 86
Overshoot: 40
Random Seed: 100
Correct pitch? Yes

In the DAW itself on the channel, I have EQ'ed the voice and applied a de-esser, I'm using a compressor with saturation and lots of character. I messed around with a few (and also with separate compressor and saturation plugins, but settled on using Supercharger GT... EQ and comp settings are in this screenshot...






The De-esser is just Cubase's own channel de-esser. It's set with its maximum reduction and LF at 2114Hz and HF at 20kHz.

I'm sure there are lots of ways to tweak to get the results you want. The channel settings in particular are just where I am now. Not necessarily working together the way that would make most sense... just where I've got to with trial and error.


----------



## Marsen

Markrs said:


> I think of some of the plugins sites I buy from and many of those look a bit strange and old though of course they don't have manga porn 😂


😂


----------



## David Cuny

richiebee said:


> I'm not sure what to give you in terms of file (I can't seem to upload an svp).


You'll need to upload it as a compressed file, such as *.rar* or *.zip*.


----------



## Lunatique

Question: I'm trying to buy from DLsite, and they don't carry any of the voice banks I want (Feng Yi, Solaria, Mai, Mo Chen, An Xiao). But looking through their catalog, I noticed for the Maki voice bank, they list two AI versions--"English AI" and just "AI". If the pro version of Synthesizer V Studio allows all voice banks to be cross-lingual, why would there need to be a distinction in the two Maki AI versions?


----------



## stigbn

Lunatique said:


> Question: I'm trying to buy from DLsite, and they don't carry any of the voice banks I want (Feng Yi, Solaria, Mai, Mo Chen, An Xiao). But looking through their catalog, I noticed for the Maki voice bank, they list two AI versions--"English AI" and just "AI". If the pro version of Synthesizer V Studio allows all voice banks to be cross-lingual, why would there need to be a distinction in the two Maki AI versions?


Maki was released in both japanese and english_ before_ the new versions with crosslingual capabilities.
I have both versions (English and Japanese AI) - crosslingual came just a while later than I bought them (or else I wouldn't have bought both). There should be a little difference as Maki was created by a singer who can speak both japanese and english, so the recorded samples should be different, but I have a hard time hearing the difference. I very much like Maki's voice-timbre/sound though, but she's best at Japanese I think.


----------



## mothershout

zinct said:


> Congratulations on what is a very beautiful original song and superb vocal harmonies! The vocal levels are very well balanced for the harmonies. The change to a softer vocal tone at 2:44 is really effective. I picked up on a few minor timing differences in the vocals here and there, which I assume is deliberate as it helps to make the overall performance sound "real".


Thank you! Yes, most of the inaccuracies in timing are intentionally left in. I chose to play the vocal lines in manually and separately, so there were natural timing differences (or maybe I’m just a bad pianist!). Leaving many of these in helps the feeling that it’s a “real band”. 

On balancing - I’m curious whether anyone has looked at the variations in level of different SynthV voices in different modes. There seem to be almost random changes in level at times, but that just may be my misunderstanding. In a previous project I edited the Loudness parameter to even out levels, but in this one it was easier to use external compression. 



zinct said:


> I played it to a few people and they all loved it, and some asked the name of the band or the singer! They were shocked when I told them that the voices were computer-generated courtesy of Synth V.


That’s consistently been the reaction I get - one person saw the artwork on Spotify and asked where the photo of the three singers was taken (it’s an AI-generated image). Another listener flatly refused to believe it until I pulled out the Macbook and demonstrated it!



zinct said:


> Thank you also for the details that you provided which are interesting and useful.


As a general question; how useful is it if posters share SVP project files? Are they a good way to explore SynthV techniques? I would be fine with sharing the file on here, since I’ve learned so much from this thread, and it’d be a way of giving back.


----------



## mothershout

Blancanegra said:


> I've had a little time to edit some performance, dynamics, some rubatto and portamento, and create a fast mockup and bad backing track (I now feel the need for a cheap VST orchestra to get started in this world).


Very impressive! I would recommend Spitfire Audio’s “Discovery” edition of the BBC Symphony Orchestra as a good starting point. It’s essentially free, and can be upgraded to the Core or Pro versions easily.


----------



## shapeshifter00

Recently made a short track and added Solaria to it. Just made up the text as I went along so not very deep


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

mothershout said:


> As a general question; how useful is it if posters share SVP project files? Are they a good way to explore SynthV techniques? I would be fine with sharing the file on here, since I’ve learned so much from this thread, and it’d be a way of giving back.


Yes, they're very useful, I've been learning a lot from them.


----------



## Lunatique

I've got Studio Pro and the voice banks installed, and even just after a few minutes of playing around, it's already blown me away. This is exactly the kind of tech I wished for all these years, and I'm just ecstatic that it happened in my lifetime. I can't wait to write a whole album of songs with these voices. 

I know I should go read/watch a bunch of tutorials, but i just have one quick question. David mentioned using groups to shift the vocal modes, and I tried creating two different groups, but they both seem to be using the same mode adjustments I made to parameters like voice, tension, breathiness, etc., instead of allowing me to create two different settings. 

And I assume if I want multiple shifting tonalities in one phrase, I'd have to split the phrase into multiple groups and alter their setting separately? But what if I want a gradual shift in one phrase--like going from low tension with lots of breathiness, to big powerful chest voice belting? Can these parameters be drawn in as automation like typical MIDI CC message in a DAW?


----------



## stigbn

Lunatique said:


> But what if I want a gradual shift in one phrase--like going from low tension with lots of breathiness, to big powerful chest voice belting? Can these parameters be drawn in as automation like typical MIDI CC message in a DAW?


There's a 'parameters' pane at the bottom below the piano roll, here you can edit/draw in tension, breathiness, gender and more continously. Often I need to lower tension for the highest notes or they seem to harsh for me.


----------



## mothershout

Lunatique said:


> i just have one quick question. David mentioned using groups to shift the vocal modes, and I tried creating two different groups, but they both seem to be using the same mode adjustments I made to parameters like voice, tension, breathiness, etc., instead of allowing me to create two different settings.


You need to *disassociate *the two instances of the group - by default, multiple instances of a group all share any changes made to any instance. You can do that by disbanding a group instance and making a new group from the notes (I am 99% sure there’s now a command to disassociate a group instance without having to do that, but right now I can’t check). That instance is then a new group and you can make any changes you like to it without affecting the others.



Lunatique said:


> And I assume if I want multiple shifting tonalities in one phrase, I'd have to split the phrase into multiple groups and alter their setting separately?


Yes, exactly.


----------



## Lunatique

mothershout said:


> Yes, exactly.


That's a bit cumbersome. Maybe they can implement a set of simple toggles for each note. And have it stay on the same mode by default when you add new notes, until you toggle a different mode. And then you can still group notes into one mode if you want.


----------



## mothershout

Lunatique said:


> That's a bit cumbersome. Maybe they can implement a set of simple toggles for each note. And have it stay on the same mode by default when you add new notes, until you toggle a different mode. And then you can still group notes into one mode if you want.


Well… I guess I assumed that _multiple shifting tonalities_ meant _vocal modes_. But you should check whether the parameters (especially tension) can achieve what you need; those can be modified per note (even within a note).


----------



## Blancanegra

raidergale said:


> This just makes me want more voices with an operatic vocal mode.
> Prima and Tonio for VOCALOID2 sounded absolutely great for their time, but they're inherently extremely niche due to their opera-only focus.
> With SynthV vocal modes you can release a more "commercial" sounding voicebank, while also offering an option to go into the typical opera sound if needed.
> Great work!


Yes, I think so too, I hope that in the near future there will be more voices with vocal modes for opera, there is a lot of potential.

I end the test, I had a lot of fun and I can say that the voice is very musical and can be easily edited in this style, I barely did anything, he sings alone with very little help.

Unsurprisingly the timbre doesn't hit the high notes well, so next time I'd better pick a song appropriate for her vocal range, haha!

Nessun Dorma (final test) - Asterian 1.0, SV 1.8
View attachment Nessum Dorma test.mp3


The portamento adds a lot of emotion to the performance. In the screenshot you can see how I have edited the portamentos with the Pitch Deviation parameter, it is a very simple and clean technique that also maintains the natural vibrato of the AI Retakes:


----------



## ScarletJerry

Blancanegra said:


> Yes, I think so too, I hope that in the near future there will be more voices with vocal modes for opera, there is a lot of potential.
> 
> I end the test, I had a lot of fun and I can say that the voice is very musical and can be easily edited in this style, I barely did anything, he sings alone with very little help.
> 
> Unsurprisingly the timbre doesn't hit the high notes well, so next time I'd better pick a song appropriate for her vocal range, haha!
> 
> Nessun Dorma (final test) - Asterian 1.0, SV 1.8
> View attachment Nessum Dorma test.mp3
> 
> 
> The portamento adds a lot of emotion to the performance. In the screenshot you can see how I have edited the portamentos with the Pitch Deviation parameter, it is a very simple and clean technique that also maintains the natural vibrato of the AI Retakes:


Wow! I really like the emotion of the singing. Well done.


----------



## Lunatique

Blancanegra said:


> Yes, I think so too, I hope that in the near future there will be more voices with vocal modes for opera, there is a lot of potential.
> 
> I end the test, I had a lot of fun and I can say that the voice is very musical and can be easily edited in this style, I barely did anything, he sings alone with very little help.
> 
> Unsurprisingly the timbre doesn't hit the high notes well, so next time I'd better pick a song appropriate for her vocal range, haha!
> 
> Nessun Dorma (final test) - Asterian 1.0, SV 1.8
> View attachment Nessum Dorma test.mp3
> 
> 
> The portamento adds a lot of emotion to the performance. In the screenshot you can see how I have edited the portamentos with the Pitch Deviation parameter, it is a very simple and clean technique that also maintains the natural vibrato of the AI Retakes:


That is astounding. I played it for my wife and her jaw dropped. 

From the marketing material I've seen/heard for the vocal bank, it never crossed my mind opera was a style it could do. You should send your example to the developer so they can use it in their marketing material (and maybe they'll compensate you for it too).


----------



## Trash Panda

First pass at seeing how Asterian handles some Type O Negative.

Rest easy, Peter. You won't be replaced by AI quite yet.

View attachment Type O Negative - Love You To Death (Asterian).mp3


----------



## Lunatique

Trash Panda said:


> First pass at seeing how Asterian handles some Type O Negative.
> 
> Rest easy, Peter. You won't be replaced by AI quite yet.
> 
> View attachment Type O Negative - Love You To Death (Asterian).mp3


I almost made a tasteless joke about Peter rolling in his grave, but then I realized he would actually find it funny.


----------



## J. H. Smith

richiebee said:


> Yeah, no secret. I'm not sure what to give you in terms of file (I can't seem to upload an svp). Settings are -
> 
> Belt: 150%
> Clear: 0
> Soft: 130
> Solid: 0
> 
> Loud: 6.45
> Tension: -0.120
> Breathiness: 0.085
> Gender: 0.5
> Tone Shift: 167
> 
> Defaults -
> 
> Pitch Left: 0.420
> Pitch Right: 0.275
> Depth Left: -1.64
> Depth Right: 1.71
> Vibrato Start: 0.360
> Left: 0.47
> Right: 0.50
> Depth: 1.46
> Freq: 1.96
> 
> I'm using a custom pitch tuning to influence the above settings. They don't work in a particularly obvious way with the above settings, so it was just lots of trial and error -
> 
> Expressiveness: 116
> Vibrato 1: 22
> Vibrato 2 : 86
> Overshoot: 40
> Random Seed: 100
> Correct pitch? Yes
> 
> In the DAW itself on the channel, I have EQ'ed the voice and applied a de-esser, I'm using a compressor with saturation and lots of character. I messed around with a few (and also with separate compressor and saturation plugins, but settled on using Supercharger GT... EQ and comp settings are in this screenshot...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The De-esser is just Cubase's own channel de-esser. It's set with its maximum reduction and LF at 2114Hz and HF at 20kHz.
> 
> I'm sure there are lots of ways to tweak to get the results you want. The channel settings in particular are just where I am now. Not necessarily working together the way that would make most sense... just where I've got to with trial and error.


Thank you so much – that's very generous! I'd better get Asterian before the 9th…


----------



## mellow-71

Hello everyone, I love Synth V and this very informative forum!  I made a little remake of Elton John's 'Nobody Wins' (Solaria v104) and I hope you like it. These are really exciting times for musicians at the moment... 

*Spotify, Deezer, Apple Music, etc.*


----------



## Raphioli

Thanks to this thread and the sale, I've finally bought it.

I knew the capabilities of this brilliant piece of software from various demos posted here, 
but I still was blown away with the quality by just letting it sing " la la la".

I haven't even let it sing lyrics yet...
wow... just wow...

I feel like I'm going to enter a rabbit hole where I'd tell myself, I have enough voice packs, but keep on buying when the next one gets released lol 
(something similar to having enough reverbs or string libraries)


----------



## soulofsound

Blancanegra said:


> Yes, I think so too, I hope that in the near future there will be more voices with vocal modes for opera, there is a lot of potential.
> 
> I end the test, I had a lot of fun and I can say that the voice is very musical and can be easily edited in this style, I barely did anything, he sings alone with very little help.
> 
> Unsurprisingly the timbre doesn't hit the high notes well, so next time I'd better pick a song appropriate for her vocal range, haha!
> 
> Nessun Dorma (final test) - Asterian 1.0, SV 1.8
> View attachment Nessum Dorma test.mp3
> 
> 
> The portamento adds a lot of emotion to the performance. In the screenshot you can see how I have edited the portamentos with the Pitch Deviation parameter, it is a very simple and clean technique that also maintains the natural vibrato of the AI Retakes:


Great test. Much appreciated.


----------



## Anthony

Is anyone aware of (or using) a workaround that forces the Synth V plugin to follow tempo and time signature changes in your DAW? (I'm using Cubase 12.)

It's _really_ arduous and frustrating to have to constantly make adjustments in the plugin to bring it into sync with Cubase.

I really wish Dreamtronics would add functionality that would allow the plugin to read MIDI data entered in your DAW.


----------



## stigbn

Anthony said:


> Is anyone aware of (or using) a workaround that forces the Synth V plugin to follow tempo and time signature changes in your DAW? (I'm using Cubase 12.)


there's a 'synchronize tempo with host' under the menu 'project', which seems to respond to tempo changes during the song - at lest in Studio One (I just tested, I haven't had use for changing tempo in song it before) but if you have signature changes then I don't think there's any way to do it.


----------



## Anthony

stigbn said:


> there's a 'synchronize tempo with host' under the menu 'project', which seems to respond to tempo changes during the song - at lest in Studio One (I just tested, I haven't had use for changing tempo in song it before) but if you have signature changes then I don't think there's any way to do it.


Thank you!


----------



## mothershout

Anthony said:


> Is anyone aware of (or using) a workaround that forces the Synth V plugin to follow tempo and time signature changes in your DAW? (I'm using Cubase 12.)


As @stigbn said, there's a command to match tempo. My notes from an earlier project that had a number of tempo changes say that it only matched the *initial* tempo of the DAW project. I had to add the other tempo changes in SynthV myself. That was in an earlier version of SynthV; I haven't checked if it's improved.

I haven't found any way to match up *time* signatures. My last project had numerous time signature changes, so I mapped them all out in Logic and then manually added all the same time signature changes in the SynthV plugin.

One final tip: once I had the project set up to the correct length in Logic (with all time and/or tempo changes), I created a MIDI track with a single note at the very end of the project, exported that as a MIDI file and imported that into SynthV so that it extends its own project to be the same length. Before I did that, I had issues where SynthV wouldn't reliably play all the way through. Again; that was with an earlier version and I haven't re-checked this.

Once I've done all the above, I've never had any issues with SynthV drifting out of sync with Logic.


----------



## stigbn

Actually you can change time signature inside the song too! I just discovered... Your cursor shall be exactly at a bar-change either in arrangement or pianoroll, then when you right click just above the arrangement/pianoroll you can insert a signature change, you just have make sure these changes fit with signature-changes in the DAW yourself, or you'll get a mess. You can also insert tempo changes here - and it sort of works, but I don't see the point, because then you might get out of synch with the daw. Maybe that's for when you're using it as a standalone, which I've never tried.

And I've re-cheched - it seems that it can use tempo changes (made in DAW) many times through a song and still be in synch.

These are new changes sinces the first versions I think - everytime there is an update you should apparently have to find out what's new for yourself...


----------



## Anthony

mothershout said:


> One final tip: once I had the project set up to the correct length in Logic (with all time and/or tempo changes), I created a MIDI track with a single note at the very end of the project, exported that as a MIDI file and imported that into SynthV so that it extends its own project to be the same length. Before I did that, I had issues where SynthV wouldn't reliably play all the way through. Again; that was with an earlier version and I haven't re-checked this.


I'm going to adapt what you described above by placing one MIDI note at the beginning of each measure where a time signature change occurs (I use a lot of them) so that I can find them quickly in the Synth V editor. I'll use different note values for different time signatures (e.g., C1=2/4; D1=3/4; E1=4/4; etc.). Thanks for the inspiration!


----------



## Knute5

Lunatique said:


> That is astounding. I played it for my wife and her jaw dropped.
> 
> From the marketing material I've seen/heard for the vocal bank, it never crossed my mind opera was a style it could do. You should send your example to the developer so they can use it in their marketing material (and maybe they'll compensate you for it too).


I wonder if SV could produce "ensemble libraries" for SATB voices. Having wrestled with mixed success in EASTWEST's WordBuilder and countless other choir libraries, this would be a quantum leap forward. Straight European and Gospel... oh wouldn't that be heaven.


----------



## Trash Panda

Knute5 said:


> I wonder if SV could produce "ensemble libraries" for SATB voices. Having wrestled with mixed success in EASTWEST's WordBuilder and countless other choir libraries, this would be a quantum leap forward. Straight European and Gospel... oh wouldn't that be heaven.


You can make your own choir with enough voice packs and patience. 



Trash Panda said:


> If you have the patience to set it up, Synth V can do some pretty decent choral lines.
> 
> This is "only" 20 instances of Synth V (SATB x 5) using Precedence for placement and Spaces 2 for putting it into a room.
> 
> Duel of the Fates Intro:
> View attachment Duel of the Fates (Synth V).mp3


----------



## Lunatique

Knute5 said:


> I wonder if SV could produce "ensemble libraries" for SATB voices. Having wrestled with mixed success in EASTWEST's WordBuilder and countless other choir libraries, this would be a quantum leap forward. Straight European and Gospel... oh wouldn't that be heaven.





Trash Panda said:


> You can make your own choir with enough voice packs and patience.


The problem with using SV voices for choir is that the tonalities of the singers were never designed for orchestral/trailer music needs. Only one or two of them contain enough power to deliver the bombastic Wagnerian or trailer-styled intensity. For softer styles, it's more doable.


----------



## richiebee

J. H. Smith said:


> Thank you so much – that's very generous! I'd better get Asterian before the 9th…


My settings were for Kevin. I don't think you'll need to do anything special to get Asterian to sound gruff and mature.


----------



## J. H. Smith

richiebee said:


> My settings were for Kevin. I don't think you'll need to do anything special to get Asterian to sound gruff and mature.


I'd need my editor to check my posts for typos…  Of course, Kevin. (Still looking for Asterian, though.)


----------



## zinct

My first try-out with Asterian! I was just using instant mode, so not bad considering.









Bare Necesseties_ Asterian by ZincT


The best independent music community on the net. Listen to music, buy and sell beats and albums.




soundclick.com


----------



## Bee_Abney

zinct said:


> My first try-out with Asterian! I was just using instant mode, so not bad considering.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bare Necesseties_ Asterian by ZincT
> 
> 
> The best independent music community on the net. Listen to music, buy and sell beats and albums.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> soundclick.com


That is absolutely stunning!


----------



## zinct

Bee_Abney said:


> That is absolutely stunning!


Thank you


----------



## Markrs

zinct said:


> My first try-out with Asterian! I was just using instant mode, so not bad considering.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bare Necesseties_ Asterian by ZincT
> 
> 
> The best independent music community on the net. Listen to music, buy and sell beats and albums.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> soundclick.com


Wow, I echo Bee, that sounds really good for the instant mode


----------



## odod

This is by far the most entertaining demo of Asterian


----------



## Bee_Abney

odod said:


> This is by far the most entertaining demo of Asterian



Yeah, I didn't make it to the second verse. I need Asterian!


----------



## Markrs

Another good video that demonstrates Asterian and Solaria. You even get rapping from Asterian


----------



## I like music

I follow this thread regularly, mainly for the demos. I actually bought the product a year ago but didn't have a chance to install it. I want to start with a couple of good voices for English. I now understand what Asterian excels at.

Could someone give me a very quick pointer for a dude's voice (higher register than Asterian) and also a good couple of lady voices, that I can go and Youtube? I've managed to confuse myself about which ones exist and who produces them and where to buy them...


----------



## Vlzmusic

I like music said:


> I follow this thread regularly, mainly for the demos. I actually bought the product a year ago but didn't have a chance to install it. I want to start with a couple of good voices for English. I now understand what Asterian excels at.
> 
> Could someone give me a very quick pointer for a dude's voice (higher register than Asterian) and also a good couple of lady voices, that I can go and Youtube? I've managed to confuse myself about which ones exist and who produces them and where to buy them...


At this point Kevin is the only other voice which is naturally English. There are more ladies, and Solaria and Natalie are quite good. One of my favorite for soft singing is Feng Yi, which is Chinese, but her English is OK mostly.


----------



## I like music

Vlzmusic said:


> At this point Kevin is the only other voice which is naturally English. There are more ladies, and Solaria and Natalie are quite good. One of my favorite for soft singing is Feng Yi, which is Chinese, but her English is OK mostly.


Great thank you! I'll check them all out. Assuming all of them are add-ons and none come built in with the engine right? Or is Kevin already included?


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Vlzmusic said:


> At this point Kevin is the only other voice which is naturally English. There are more ladies, and Solaria and Natalie are quite good. One of my favorite for soft singing is Feng Yi, which is Chinese, but her English is OK mostly.


Any good demos of Solaria (or other female voice sets) with gender etc. tweaked to sound like a male voice?...


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

I like music said:


> Great thank you! I'll check them all out. Assuming all of them are add-ons and none come built in with the engine right? Or is Kevin already included?


The only voice that's included with Synthesizer V Studio Pro is Mai (native Japanese, with cross-lingual). But you can get a discount from the Dreamtonics store when buying Studio Pro bundled with an additional voice bank.


----------



## I like music

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> The only voice that's included with Synthesizer V Studio Pro is Mai (native Japanese, with cross-lingual). But you can get a discount from the Dreamtonics store when buying Studio Pro bundled with an additional voice bank.


Thank you!


----------



## Vlzmusic

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Any good demos of Solaria (or other female voice sets) with gender etc. tweaked to sound like a male voice?...


I don't think it would sound like a male. Gender tweak is nice, but it breaks the voice pretty quickly when exaggerated.


----------



## zinct

Markrs said:


> Another good video that demonstrates Asterian and Solaria. You even get rapping from Asterian



Very cool, thanks! 

I need to work on the rapping/speaking side of things if I want to complete Bare Necessities. 
All those spoken parts like "Yeah man" and "now when you pick a paw-paw" etc.
I did wonder whether you could use Melodyne to analyze the speech parts and work out the pitches used which could then be applied to the lyrics in V Synth using a pitch deviation parameter.


----------



## David Cuny

Vlzmusic said:


> I don't think it would sound like a male. Gender tweak is nice, but it breaks the voice pretty quickly when exaggerated.


IMO, all the female voices can make a convincing male voice, and the native English female voices work better as male English voices than using non-native English voices in trans-lingual mode.

From a physical standpoint there's not that much difference between the male and female voice. The primary cue is the frequency of the formants, which is a function of the length of the vocal tract. *Gender* shifts the position of the formants.

I posted an example where I replaced Kevin with Solaria, Weina, Natalie. To my ears, they sounds a lot like Kevin singing.


----------



## David Cuny

zinct said:


> I did wonder whether you could use Melodyne to analyze the speech parts and work out the pitches used which could then be applied to the lyrics in V Synth using a pitch deviation parameter.


For analysis, Praat is my tool of choice, but you can export MIDI from Melodyne, so that might be better in this case.


----------



## Vlzmusic

David Cuny said:


> IMO, all the female voices can make a convincing male voice, and the native English female voices work better as male English voices than using non-native English voices in trans-lingual mode.
> 
> From a physical standpoint there's not that much difference between the male and female voice. The primary cue is the frequency of the formants, which is a function of the length of the vocal tract. *Gender* shifts the position of the formants.
> 
> I posted an example where I replaced Kevin with Solaria, Weina, Natalie. To my ears, they sounds a lot like Kevin singing.


Hmm... it does sound like a man, but sounds broken (in Synth V context, 5 years ago we would kill for Vocaloid to sound like that  )

Such a large shift introduces digital artefacts, nasal timbre and sounds rather weird. But overall I like the gender parameter, and use it to adjust the voices here and there...


----------



## David Cuny

Vlzmusic said:


> Such a large shift introduces digital artefacts, nasal timbre and sounds rather weird. But overall I like the gender parameter, and use it to adjust the voices here and there...


There's no pitch shifting happening here - the spectral envelope is being shifted, not the base waveform.

So you're not going to get "digital artefacts" from the process.

On the other hand, the nasal resonances _are_ part of the spectral envelope (technically, _anti-resonances_), and they are being shifted along with the formant resonances.

That said, the rule is the same as for anything musical - if it sounds good, it is. Conversely, if it doesn't sound good to you, it's not.


----------



## TomaeusD

I'm new to Synthesizer V so I recognize this is a newb question, but how can I turn off vibrato completely? Adjusting depth to 0 doesn't take it away. Is there another way? Can vibrato be drawn in/automated?


----------



## stigbn

TomaeusD said:


> I'm new to Synthesizer V so I recognize this is a newb question, but how can I turn off vibrato completely? Adjusting depth to 0 doesn't take it away. Is there another way? Can vibrato be drawn in/automated?


you should go into menu 'auto process' and remove the tick in 'enable instant mode'. then you can turn off vibrato completely, and in the voice menu you can define 
the default settings for how you want the vibrato. And yes, you can draw pitch data by hand (tedious..), but there are also some scrips for progressive vibrato and more.


----------



## zinct

David Cuny said:


> For analysis, Praat is my tool of choice, but you can export MIDI from Melodyne, so that might be better in this case.


Thanks David, it's on my to-do list to check out Praat Vocal Toolkit.


----------



## madfloyd

Markrs said:


> Wow, I echo Bee, that sounds really good for the instant mode



I apologize for having most likely missed it in this thread, but what are the pros and cons of instant mode?


----------



## Markrs

madfloyd said:


> I apologize for having most likely missed it in this thread, but what are the pros and cons of instant mode?


Sadly I can’t answer that as I only just purchased Synth V, my comment was how good it sounds without having to do any manual tweaking.


----------



## Markrs




----------



## stigbn

madfloyd said:


> I apologize for having most likely missed it in this thread, but what are the pros and cons of instant mode?


Instant mode creates a singing style that is different for each singer (it's possible to 'cheat' and use a different singer's instant mode on another singer by turning instant mode off and then switch singer - this is a reason to download some of the lite versions even if you don't like that voice or don't speak that language).
You can also use instant mode and turn it off, and the edit some notes either by hand or by 'auto pitch tuning' . The cons of instant mode is that you cant graduate it - it's either on or off, when you don't use it you have control of vibrato for example. auto pitch tuning can be graduated so it's more flexible.
I often prefer to not use instant mode, I feel that it often sound more 'in pitch' to me, at least when I use it, but then I hear others make amazing things with instant mode, so I don't know, I should experiment more with it and it has improved by each update, and some of the singers seems to have better instant mode than others.


----------



## TomaeusD

stigbn said:


> you should go into menu 'auto process' and remove the tick in 'enable instant mode'. then you can turn off vibrato completely, and in the voice menu you can define
> the default settings for how you want the vibrato. And yes, you can draw pitch data by hand (tedious..), but there are also some scrips for progressive vibrato and more.


Thanks! I was hoping to use this for sound design mostly so the extra customization is helpful.

EDIT: I was wanting to create some vocalizations and I'm getting somewhere with inflections pretty fast.


----------



## TomaeusD

Kevin laughing


----------



## ScarletJerry

Markrs said:


>



Virtual Standing Ovation!!


----------



## Gil

Hello,
Even if it can be a matter of taste, I would like to know if there is a female voice singing in English (Solaria, Natalie or Weina if I'm right) which goes well with Kevin's voice?
Thanks!
Best regards,
Gil.


----------



## soulofsound

Lunatique said:


> The problem with using SV voices for choir is that the tonalities of the singers were never designed for orchestral/trailer music needs. Only one or two of them contain enough power to deliver the bombastic Wagnerian or trailer-styled intensity. For softer styles, it's more doable.


True, though i was impressed with the progressive rock demo for Solaria. But yes, more belting power in the libraries would be welcome.


----------



## requiemdissident

philthevoid said:


> On that note, here's one where Asterian sings lower. Though it's not the same vibe at all.
> 
> Picture the same 4 singers as above, each in front of their own mic, in a church, with their individual choir section right behind them as support. Works pretty well I think! Not my type of song usually but I had a sheet laying around and it was still a fun little piece to do.
> View attachment OHolyNight.mp3
> 
> 
> This is encouraging I think. I'll be in the lookout for good arrangements of Let It Snow or similarly upbeat songs. I'll work on it in Synth-V, then I'll go door to door and play it to people.  Just kidding, just kidding.


By God.

Solaria can really belt those notes. Especially around 1:16.


----------



## Lunatique

soulofsound said:


> True, though i was impressed with the progressive rock demo for Solaria. But yes, more belting power in the libraries would be welcome.



Death metal voice bank when?


----------



## Markrs

When Asterian released there was a 10% discount that was to end on the 9th Dec, but you also go 25% off when you bought Solaria and Asterian. We didn’t know if the 25% off was permanent as a bundle price or temporary. I just check today and the 10% off Asterian and the 25% bundle price has been removed.

I was tempted to get the bundle but had spent a lot of money over BF and I had Synth V and the Kevin Voice to play around with and get to know first, so I held off. I suspect I might end up buying both in the future, but just couldn’t justify it right now with some much I have already bought needing my time to Learn.


----------



## zinct

Markrs said:


> When Asterian released there was a 10% discount that was to end on the 9th Dec, but you also go 25% off when you bought Solaria and Asterian. We didn’t know if the 25% off was permanent as a bundle price or temporary. I just check today and the 10% off Asterian and the 25% bundle price has been removed.
> 
> I was tempted to get the bundle but had spent a lot of money over BF and I had Synth V and the Kevin Voice to play around with and get to know first, so I held off. I suspect I might end up buying both in the future, but just couldn’t justify it right now with some much I have already bought needing my time to Learn.


Thanks @Markrs for confirming that these deals are over.

When I bought Asterian, I had forgotten about the 20% VAT, having spent my BF budget, so I'm waiting to buy Natalie.

Although I bought SV and Solaria/Kevin at the beginning of 2022, there have been so many updates to SV that I'm also in need of spending some time playing with all the new options. Then there are all the svp files posted by the experts on here that I will need to try and analyse. So much to do and so little time!

I don't know if anyone on here would be interested in a video showing how I made the Bare Necessities demo? I realise that this would be of no use to the SV experts but to anyone just starting out with SV it might be of help.

Anyway, here's my work-in-progress Christmas song featuring Kevin and Asterian...









Peace on Earth Little Drummer Boy (Asterian Kevin) by ZincT


The best independent music community on the net. Listen to music, buy and sell beats and albums.




soundclick.com


----------



## I like music

Sorry all for one more annoying question.

I bought SV Pro last year and will be installing it later. In terms of learning the functionality of voices like Solaria, Asterian etc. is it safe to assume that the voices that SV comes with as standard, contain the same capabilities on a technical level?

What I mean to say is, can I learn before I decide to invest in those voices, or is there anything unique about those voices which I can only learn by purchasing them?

Thanks!


----------



## Vlzmusic

I like music said:


> What I mean to say is, can I learn before I decide to invest in those voices, or is there anything unique about those voices which I can only learn by purchasing them?
> 
> Thanks!


To some extent, yes. Since voices like Solaria, Natalie, Kevin, Asterian etc. sometimes give such a mind bending feedback to what you enter in English, that I would not draw conclusions about SynthV quality based on Mai, or free demo voicebanks. 

You can familiarize yourself with the program, of course, but keep in mind that higher tier voices behave differently, also between themselves ...


----------



## requiemdissident

I like music said:


> Sorry all for one more annoying question.
> 
> I bought SV Pro last year and will be installing it later. In terms of learning the functionality of voices like Solaria, Asterian etc. is it safe to assume that the voices that SV comes with as standard, contain the same capabilities on a technical level?
> 
> What I mean to say is, can I learn before I decide to invest in those voices, or is there anything unique about those voices which I can only learn by purchasing them?
> 
> Thanks!


Are you asking if you can learn to use SynthV from using other vocal synthesizer programs like UTAU or if SynthV has a unique learning curve?


----------



## ScarletJerry

requiemdissident said:


> Are you asking if you can learn to use SynthV from using other vocal synthesizer programs like UTAU or if SynthV has a unique learning curve?


I think that he is saying that he wants to see if he can learn to use Synth V effectively without purchasing any of the AI voices right now, just using the standard ones. I would like to answer, but I purchased Solaria and Kevin when I bought Syth V, so I did not have the experience of using it with the non-AI voices.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

I like music said:


> What I mean to say is, can I learn before I decide to invest in those voices, or is there anything unique about those voices which I can only learn by purchasing them?


You can play with the lite voices, they're just inferior in quality and have less dynamic control


----------



## requiemdissident

ScarletJerry said:


> I think that he is saying that he wants to see if he can learn to use Synth V effectively without purchasing any of the AI voices right now, just using the standard ones. I would like to answer, but I purchased Solaria and Kevin when I bought Syth V, so I did not have the experience of using it with the non-AI voices.


There's not a lot of standard voice banks left. Most of them are AI.


----------



## Piotrek K.

I like music said:


> What I mean to say is, can I learn before I decide to invest in those voices, or is there anything unique about those voices which I can only learn by purchasing them?


I would say yes. Solaria Lite sounds pretty great imo and as you can't tweak too much you can focus on learning how to write lyrics, dig a bit more on song structure etc. Unles you know all of that then... I bought Synth V Pro to have VST version and I am using free Solaria to be sure that I actually can use it for anything more than ahs or ohs. I'm working on a first song since some time, I know I went too ambitious, but I also know that too much tweaking posibilities would make me go full "tweak mode" instead of "let's finish a song". So if you are not very much familiar with song writing etc. I'd stay with free voice for at least 3 songs (this is my plan)


----------



## I like music

Piotrek K. said:


> I would say yes. Solaria Lite sounds pretty great imo and as you can't tweak too much you can focus on learning how to write lyrics, dig a bit more on song structure etc. Unles you know all of that then... I bought Synth V Pro to have VST version and I am using free Solaria to be sure that I actually can use it for anything more than ahs or ohs. I'm working on a first song since some time, I know I went too ambitious, but I also know that too much tweaking posibilities would make me go full "tweak mode" instead of "let's finish a song". So if you are not very much familiar with song writing etc. I'd stay with free voice for at least 3 songs (this is my plan)


Perfect, thank you for the tips. I'll start here and see how it goes!


----------



## I like music

requiemdissident said:


> Are you asking if you can learn to use SynthV from using other vocal synthesizer programs like UTAU or if SynthV has a unique learning curve?


Having read the replies, I think what I meant to ask was if the Pro version comes with AI voices (e.g. can I use all the tweaks that Synth V allows, only using the free voices so that I can practise full functionality without buying Solaria, Kevin etc?).


----------



## requiemdissident

I like music said:


> Having read the replies, I think what I meant to ask was if the Pro version comes with AI voices (e.g. can I use all the tweaks that Synth V allows, only using the free voices so that I can practise full functionality without buying Solaria, Kevin etc?).


The only Al that comes free with SynthV pro is Mai and she's a recent addition. Other than that, there are lite voices that are free to download which others have mentioned. 

On that note, Solaria LITE is pretty good for a lite voice bank.


----------



## Raphioli

TomaeusD said:


> Kevin laughing


that's spot on.
It sounds exactly the same when someone laughs at my joke for the 100th time.


----------



## raidergale

Audiologie, the company behind Anri, released a new song to celebrate Anri's 1st anniversary, and they teased what I assume will be a new vocal with a picture right at the end, coming Q1 2023.



No idea on what the voice will sound like, but this old listing on backstage might be it. It's not confirmed this is Audiologie, but it's fun to speculate 

As an aside, Cong Zheng and Xuan Yu just released on Dreamtonics' Store. I'm waiting to hear more examples because as usual they released them with a single Chinese demo :/

EDIT: well, a couple more examples, but still in Chinese. They both sound good, Cong Zheng reminds me of Weina a bit.

Cong Zheng example
Xuan Yu example

Still waiting for English cross language examples, there's a tiny snippet at the end of Cong Zheng's video, but I want more!


----------



## Vlzmusic

raidergale said:


> As an aside, Cong Zheng and Xuan Yu just released on Dreamtonics' Store.


The female roster becomes crowded a bit. And the male is pretty interesting - brings some strong 80's pop vibes. Wonder how he will handle English.


----------



## madfloyd

Vlzmusic said:


> The female roster becomes crowded a bit. And the male is pretty interesting - brings some strong 80's pop vibes. Wonder how he will handle English.


To me he sounds too similar to Kevin.


----------



## Vlzmusic

madfloyd said:


> To me he sounds too similar to Kevin.


Hmm.. I would say Ryo is very similar to Kevin, but hopefully this one will have his own character. So far the demo suggests he has a very particular pop-rock style and timbre to match it.


----------



## bosone

I think all this hype and interest towards Chinese synth voices is a signal that we should throw english voices in the trash and start to produce pop-songs tailored to the chinese market! :D


----------



## chemie262

I have used Xuanyu with a song I produced with Kevin. I did not change anything but the voice.
As comparison I also add the version with Kevin.


----------



## odod

anyone knows between An Xiao, Kevin and the latest Xuan Yu, which one have more range (ambitus) and higher voice? 

Kind regards


----------



## chemie262

odod said:


> anyone knows between An Xiao, Kevin and the latest Xuan Yu, which one have more range (ambitus) and higher voice?
> 
> Kind regards


both are very similar. I tested Kevin from Fis 2 - G 5 and XuanYu Gis 2 -Gis 5


----------



## Lunatique

raidergale said:


> As an aside, Cong Zheng and Xuan Yu just released on Dreamtonics' Store. I'm waiting to hear more examples because as usual they released them with a single Chinese demo :/
> 
> EDIT: well, a couple more examples, but still in Chinese. They both sound good, Cong Zheng reminds me of Weina a bit.
> 
> Cong Zheng example
> Xuan Yu example
> 
> Still waiting for English cross language examples, there's a tiny snippet at the end of Cong Zheng's video, but I want more!


When it was announced they'll add two rock-oriented voice banks, I had hoped they will contain raspy/growling rock vocals, as that's my acid test for just how rock a voice can get. But it seems like these two new additions can only hit strident chest voice, but don't contain enough grit.


chemie262 said:


> I have used Xuanyu with a song I produced with Kevin. I did not change anything but the voice.
> As comparison I also add the version with Kevin.


These two sound identical? Did you accidentally mis-name a duplicate track?


----------



## chemie262

Lunatique said:


> When it was announced they'll add two rock-oriented voice banks, I had hoped they will contain raspy/growling rock vocals, as that's my acid test for just how rock a voice can get. But it seems like these two new additions can only hit strident chest voice, but don't contain enough grit.
> 
> These two sound identical? Did you accidentally mis-name a duplicate track?


Both voices are very similar and I assume it's difficult to produce rock music with them.


----------



## Blancanegra

TomaeusD said:


> I'm new to Synthesizer V so I recognize this is a newb question, but how can I turn off vibrato completely? Adjusting depth to 0 doesn't take it away. Is there another way? Can vibrato be drawn in/automated?


In my case I work only with INSTANT MODE ON, and when I need a note without vibrato, I reduce the expressiveness in AI Retakes/Pitch and generate several takes. If neither convinces me, splitting the note in 2 is usually enough to make the vibrato disappear. Sometimes it is necessary to move the split point, or maybe add another cut if the note is too long.


----------



## David Cuny

raidergale said:


> Still waiting for English cross language examples, there's a tiny snippet at the end of Cong Zheng's video, but I want more!


I've got a number of non-native English voices, but they don't get used because of accent issues.

Based on what I've heard in Cong Zheng's demo, I suspect that this voice has the same issues. Hopefully I'm wrong.

The description of Cong Zheng and Xuan Yu is that the "vocal design closely matches the performance of Chinese rock singers".

But apparently Chinese rock isn't as gritty and hard as American rock, because he sounds better suited for ballads than to rock.

I'm hoping that as more native English voices become available, _SynthesizerV_ will be able to improve the trans-lingual feature.

*Edit:* Having heard the "Loreen" demo posted below, I'm holding out some hope they may be usable, but I'm still waiting for an English demo from Xuan Yu.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

madfloyd said:


> To me he sounds too similar to Kevin.


I think it sounds a hundred times better than Kevin, this one I could actually use if the accent isn't too bad in english


----------



## Lunatique

David Cuny said:


> The description of Cong Zheng and Xuan Yu is that the "vocal design closely matches the performance of Chinese rock singers".
> 
> But apparently Chinese rock isn't as gritty and hard as American rock, because he sounds better suited for ballads than to rock.


There are absolutely Chinese rockers who sing with grit and growl, from hard rock all the way to the heaviest of modern metal. But I think the decision to not do voice banks catering to more extreme style of music is simply a matter of business, as there are far fewer people who are into those genres. Vast majority of their customers are making pop-oriented music.

There's was one tutorial showing how to create screams, using a control parameter to fake it. Maybe that can be used to create more grit as well.


----------



## Gil

Gil said:


> Hello,
> Even if it can be a matter of taste, I would like to know if there is a female voice singing in English (Solaria, Natalie or Weina if I'm right) which goes well with Kevin's voice?
> Thanks!
> Best regards,
> Gil.


The answer is quite yes


----------



## raidergale

Not much usage of Xuan Yu on Youtube yet, but this is an English example I found of Cong Zheng


----------



## richiebee

Does anyone know if voicebanks can be used on multiple machines? I was thinking of picking up an extra Synth-V license so I can use on my desktop and laptop without re-registering, but it would be dependent on most or all of my voicebanks being able to be used on both with a single license. I've put out a call to Eclipsed, but just wondering about Dreamtonics voicebanks...


----------



## chemie262

richiebee said:


> Does anyone know if voicebanks can be used on multiple machines? I was thinking of picking up an extra Synth-V license so I can use on my desktop and laptop without re-registering, but it would be dependent on most or all of my voicebanks being able to be used on both with a single license. I've put out a call to Eclipsed, but just wondering about Dreamtonics voicebanks...


It works on two machines


----------



## raidergale

richiebee said:


> Does anyone know if voicebanks can be used on multiple machines? I was thinking of picking up an extra Synth-V license so I can use on my desktop and laptop without re-registering, but it would be dependent on most or all of my voicebanks being able to be used on both with a single license. I've put out a call to Eclipsed, but just wondering about Dreamtonics voicebanks...


Each code is valid for 3 activations, so it can be used on up to 3 different machines at once.
Just remember to manually deactivate them if you don't plan on using them anymore on a particular machine, because unfortunately there's no remote deactivation


----------



## Markrs

raidergale said:


> Just remember to manually deactivate them if you don't plan on using them anymore on a particular machine, because unfortunately there's no remote deactivation


Thank you for this comment, this would have caught me out the next time I changed PC


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

raidergale said:


> Each code is valid for 3 activations, so it can be used on up to 3 different machines at once.
> Just remember to manually deactivate them if you don't plan on using them anymore on a particular machine, because unfortunately there's no remote deactivation


So if your computer stops working and you can't get it to start up again then you've just lost 1 activation, no recourse?...


----------



## raidergale

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> So if your computer stops working and you can't get it to start up again then you've just lost 1 activation, no recourse?...


Unfortunately yeah... you can usually contact the company if you lose all activations and they will provide a new code most of the time (not guaranteed, but reports are positive on this), but this of course only applies if the company is still active. Not a huge issue now, but unknown in the future.
A remote deactivation option would be lovely to have for sure.


----------



## chemie262

This is the trial to cover Barry White with Asterian.


----------



## mothershout

Here's the SynthV project file for the last project I released (Spotify & YouTube links here). Would have posted it earlier but Covid really knocked me out for a week or so...

You're not going to see a lot of cleverness with parameters in this file, but it's okay as an example of how to use groups to switch the singing style of a single voice over time, and there's the usual playing with phonemes. One thing that's not obvious (but which took a lot of work) was adjusting the timing of specific syllables, because I strongly suspect that the relation of a syllable's time to the strong and weak metrical beats has an effect on how it's sung. One day I'll do some experiments to check that.

Anyway, it's yours to use for individual study and self-education.


----------



## mothershout

Gil said:


> Hello,
> Even if it can be a matter of taste, I would like to know if there is a female voice singing in English (Solaria, Natalie or Weina if I'm right) which goes well with Kevin's voice?
> Thanks!
> Best regards,
> Gil.


There's a duet of Solaria and Kevin posted here: https://vi-control.net/community/th...-might-want-to-check-this.115973/post-5074083


----------



## David Cuny

Anomie Train posted a demo of Xuan Yu's English in various vocal styles:





> Couple things to note. For the demonstration he's singing Lotta Love by Neil Young. I originally had this with Eleanor Forte and I just dropped in Xuan Yu. I had to specifically adjust the length of consonant sounds for Eleanor which doesn't work with Xuan Yu, so don't be alarmed when you hear him drop the "v" sound at the end of "love." Also, Xuan Yu seems to sound best in the C4 to C5 range. In lower ranges, you can really, really hear his accent when he's singing in English, so if you use him for that, you'll need to make adjustments to soften his voice to minimize that.


There's a male companion voice to ANRI coming out Real Soon Now™, but I rarely use ANRI. That's because because I don't find her voice appealing and she's got a lot of pitch issues. Here's an example of ANRI with the expressiveness to -100, and she still can't even hit the first note on pitch. 






Maybe the male companion will have better luck.


----------



## stigbn

David Cuny said:


> There's a male companion voice to ANRI coming out Real Soon Now™, but I rarely use ANRI. That's because because I don't find her voice appealing and she's got a lot of pitch issues. Here's an example of ANRI with the expressiveness to -100, and she still can't even hit the first note on pitch.


I like Anri's voice - but I hardly ever use instant mode, and without instant mode she has no problems hitting notes. But I started out in 2015 with vocaloid, so I'm used to editing _a lot_ by hand, and synth v was a major improvement in clean pitch when it came out in 2018/19 - it was initially _without_ instant mode, but still much better than vocaloid (at least in english, vocaloid can still make good results in japanese I think).
I would like future updates of synth v to have a 'gradual' instant mode, then I might use it more.


----------



## odod

David Cuny said:


> Anomie Train posted a demo of Xuan Yu's English in various vocal styles:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a male companion voice to ANRI coming out Real Soon Now™, but I rarely use ANRI. That's because because I don't find her voice appealing and she's got a lot of pitch issues. Here's an example of ANRI with the expressiveness to -100, and she still can't even hit the first note on pitch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the male companion will have better luck.



His ambitus almost the same like Kevin i presume, but nicer


----------



## soulofsound

chemie262 said:


> I have used Xuanyu with a song I produced with Kevin. I did not change anything but the voice.
> As comparison I also add the version with Kevin.


Thanks a lot. I like Xuanyu a lot better.


----------



## chemie262

soulofsound said:


> Thanks a lot. I like Xuanyu a lot better.


me too. And one could improve a lot with some adjustments. So generally I could recommend to buy this voice even if you own Kevin already.


----------



## parapentep70

chemie262 said:


> I have used Xuanyu with a song I produced with Kevin. I did not change anything but the voice.
> As comparison I also add the version with Kevin.


I am in shock! Kevin's version is one of the worst demos I've heard but Xuanyu version (supposedly optimized for Kevin) is times better. Either there is something wrong in the way Kevin is set for this song or... I am afraid I will regret to have bought Kevin LAST WEEK! And I did not have the time to test myself. Xuanyu seems too much better. I hope there is something wrong


----------



## madfloyd

Interesting. I find Kevin much better.


----------



## David Cuny

parapentep70 said:


> I am in shock! Kevin's version is one of the worst demos I've heard but Xuanyu version (supposedly optimized for Kevin) is times better. Either there is something wrong in the way Kevin is set for this song or... I am afraid I will regret to have bought Kevin LAST WEEK! And I did not have the time to test myself. Xuanyu seems too much better. I hope there is something wrong


I think Kevin sounds bad on this demo, but I don't think it's representative of Kevin in general.

He starts out with sounding unpleasantly shrill, because Kevin can be quite nasal. Shifting the *Gender* and *Tone Shift* can help mitigate that. On the other hand, he sounds much more pleasant on the chorus.

In contrast, the Xuan Yu sounds like he's starting out in a comfortable register with a much rounder timbre. So that makes a huge difference.

I think the moral here is more about picking a key that's good for the singer than anything else.


----------



## philthevoid

I also think Kevin can sound good and I don't think he is a bad purchase. He just needs a little bit of tweaks and he doesn't necessarily fit in every genre but he's a great voice IMO.
---
On another note, I said I was working on another holidays song with Solaria, Mai, Kevin and Asterian. Here it is, hope you enjoy!



I used two vocal modes for each singer so they go back and forth from a low-power - almost whisper - voice to a more powerful voice throughout the song. It was challenging because the vocal modes make them sound very different sometimes. I had to heavily EQ most of them to match the other vocal mode otherwise it sounded like a different singer altogether.
Still, good fun!


----------



## Rikk

Could use a better vocal mix, but not bad at all. 
cong zheng english.​


----------



## Vlzmusic

Maybe its just my imagination, but I feel like Chinese voicebanks do better at English than Japanese. My favorite Feng Yi did this right out of the box, back when I bought her:

View attachment Irish Rose 04.mp3


----------



## zinct

mothershout said:


> Here's the SynthV project file for the last project I released (Spotify & YouTube links here). Would have posted it earlier but Covid really knocked me out for a week or so...
> 
> You're not going to see a lot of cleverness with parameters in this file, but it's okay as an example of how to use groups to switch the singing style of a single voice over time, and there's the usual playing with phonemes. One thing that's not obvious (but which took a lot of work) was adjusting the timing of specific syllables, because I strongly suspect that the relation of a syllable's time to the strong and weak metrical beats has an effect on how it's sung. One day I'll do some experiments to check that.
> 
> Anyway, it's yours to use for individual study and self-education.


Thanks for the post @mothershout ; much appreciated.

Those 6 part harmonies sound great in isolation, even though I am substituting all the non-Solaria female vocal parts with Solaria as I don't (yet) own Weina or Natalie.


----------



## parapentep70

David Cuny said:


> I think Kevin sounds bad on this demo, but I don't think it's representative of Kevin in general.
> 
> He starts out with sounding unpleasantly shrill, because Kevin can be quite nasal. Shifting the *Gender* and *Tone Shift* can help mitigate that. On the other hand, he sounds much more pleasant on the chorus.
> 
> In contrast, the Xuan Yu sounds like he's starting out in a comfortable register with a much rounder timbre. So that makes a huge difference.
> 
> I think the moral here is more about picking a key that's good for the singer than anything else.


That's what I think (and hope) after reading so many pages here! My impressions from others and from demos is that the preferred voices _for me_ will be Solaria, then Kevin and Asterian (but Kevin is cheaper in dlsite). 

But in this demo (allegedly for Kevin), it sounds sooo robotic and bad for me around 1:05, when XuanYu does it much better. Hence my comment without deep critical listening. Anyway I think that both can be easily improved, and I believe popular wisdom that in general Kevin is possibly easier to get good results in English without much accent.

Going back to my learning curve with Solaria, my 1st serious day composing for her. Kevin is next. Then, once I can justify extra expenses in something I actually use, I'll consider other cross-lingual voices (due to prices). Asterian probably in the next sales. Cheers!


----------



## zinct

Here's a quick try-out on the first verse of a favorite church song with three part harmony.

This has Solaria singing the high part, Kevin the middle and Asterian the bass.

These are all in instant mode and with the following vocal modes:- Solaria - Airy, Kevin - Soft and Asterian - Gentle. The only thing I had to change was the word "forever" which they originally sang as "ferever" (phoneme er as in bird) which I changed to ao (as in bought).

I put the piano together using EZKeys.

View attachment Nothing is Lost on the Breath of God (Synth V).mp3


----------



## zinct

Vlzmusic said:


> Maybe its just my imagination, but I feel like Chinese voicebanks do better at English than Japanese. My favorite Feng Yi did this right out of the box, back when I bought her:
> 
> View attachment Irish Rose 04.mp3


That is quite a convincing accent (I wonder if an Irish accent is possible with some phoneme juggling  From the description on Dreamtonics website, I would have passed over Feng Yi for English singing but that makes me think otherwise.


----------



## raidergale

I was weak and decided to get Cong Zheng, because I liked the English covers I've heard on Youtube.
I really think Chinese to English cross language synthesis for new voices has improved a lot, _or_ the singer sampled for this voicebank knows English with very little accent. It's probably the best Chinese to English cross language result I've heard out of the other Chinese voicebanks I own (... which are only Feng Yi and Weina, so the sample isn't that big, but still).

Here's a quick test, base file was made for Solaria so it might not be 100% perfect.

View attachment CongZheng.mp3


----------



## TomaeusD

I was having issues getting syllables to distribute with + or extend phonemes with - as seen in this tutorial:



...until I realized that the global language was set to English but for some reason certain notes were set to Japanese. They need to be the same. 🤦‍♂️


----------



## parapentep70

I don't know if anybody mentioned something about *CPU use*. I was just curious how many voices I could manage in a project. And it's *amazingly low!* First I did not believe Reaper's reports, but they are true. Here you are My humble project with Kevin and Solaria singing the same line (octave unison just after copying before composing the back vocal). Reaper's performance view (the acoustic guitar takes a lot more resources than the voices). Synth-V is so friendly both in RAM use, disk use and CPU use!


----------



## parapentep70

Question: Where could I fing information about the restrictions when using the "automatic" modes? For example, by default many voice parameters are calculated "automatically", but then I cannot edit things like vibrato parameters (depth, delay, jitter). I know how to edit manually the pitch line, but I think it could be handy to use some "semi-automated" mode.

Question 2: I am starting to like the VST plug-in (in Reaper). Is there a way to synchronize tempo changes with the host? Moreover, is it possible to import (or even manually define) a "tempo map" in the plug-in? Or perhaps I must work on multiple takes each with fixed tempo?

Q3: Is it possible to insert / delete bars in the plug-in other than selecting all in a group of bars (chorus, verse, bridge) and moving carefully the entire selection?

Q4: Is there a... manual (no video, please )? I guess the answer is "only for very old versions", but I must ask. And if not... is there a simple quick guide to understand the many hidden features? I learnt many essential tricks from this thread but... I think I forgot some of them.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

parapentep70 said:


> Is there a way to synchronize tempo changes with the host?


Project (in the bar at the top) -> Synchronize tempo with host


----------



## parapentep70

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Project (in the bar at the top) -> Synchronize tempo with host


I am afraid it does not work. 

If I do it this way, it simply copy the tempo at the position of my cursor to the entire Synth-V project, nothing else. If I move the cursor of reaper to other region with a different tempo, I'll copy the new tempo to the WHOLE project.

So I ask is if there is a way to use different tempos in a single Synth-V project (with tempo changes). It could be ideal if possible to import the tempo map or "really synchronize" tempo map... but the last option is not possible.


----------



## raidergale

I've decided to test Cong Zheng in a genre she wasn't really advertised for, but oh well.
It's a cover of Postmodern Jukebox's arrangement of Sweater Weather. It also features some French in it, so that was fun. Since I don't know French pronunciation might be off, but I did my best.
I used Hataori's RealVoice script as a base.


----------



## Anthony

parapentep70 said:


> Question: Where could I fing information about the restrictions when using the "automatic" modes? For example, by default many voice parameters are calculated "automatically", but then I cannot edit things like vibrato parameters (depth, delay, jitter). I know how to edit manually the pitch line, but I think it could be handy to use some "semi-automated" mode.
> 
> Question 2: I am starting to like the VST plug-in (in Reaper). Is there a way to synchronize tempo changes with the host? Moreover, is it possible to import (or even manually define) a "tempo map" in the plug-in? Or perhaps I must work on multiple takes each with fixed tempo?
> 
> Q3: Is it possible to insert / delete bars in the plug-in other than selecting all in a group of bars (chorus, verse, bridge) and moving carefully the entire selection?
> 
> Q4: Is there a... manual (no video, please )? I guess the answer is "only for very old versions", but I must ask. And if not... is there a simple quick guide to understand the many hidden features? I learnt many essential tricks from this thread but... I think I forgot some of them.


This post addresses some of the issues you asked about.


----------



## Quasar

I was so blown away by SynthV when I finally looked into it out that I bought the Pro with two voices (Solaria and Kevin).

Since this is a very long thread, it may have already been discussed, but the VSTi doesn't seem to behave like a normal VSTi in the DAW (Reaper), and I'm still trying to wrap my head around a workflow that will enable me to efficiently create notes in time and pitch to an audio or MIDI track. As it is, the record, play, stop, start etc. functions don't sync on a SynthV track, and the VST support seems somehow incomplete and awkward to engage. I'd like to:

1) Ideally, trigger MIDI notes on the keyboard in real time while playing back an accompanying instrumental track for proper syncing, hearing the la-la-las before adding the lyrics. Is this possible?

2) Or, instead play MIDI notes on any VI along with an instrumental track, export the MIDI, then re-import it back into SynthV so that it properly inserts into the project?

3) Or is it better to just use standalone with an instrument track, then somehow line up the results in the DAW?

Another annoyance is the transport player wants to constantly disappear, and you have to click in the Arrangement area to make it reappear. Is there any way to make the visibility of the transport buttons persist?


----------



## David Cuny

Quasar said:


> 3) Or is it better to just use standalone with an instrument track, then somehow line up the results in the DAW?


That's what I do, because I'm lazy and it's simpler for me.  YMMV.

You can now play the notes into _SynthesizerV_ via MIDI. You'll hear a "piano" sound as you play, but it will then convert to vocals. So now it's a lot simpler to input notes than before.


----------



## Quasar

David Cuny said:


> That's what I do, because I'm lazy and it's simpler for me.  YMMV.
> 
> You can now play the notes into _SynthesizerV_ via MIDI. You'll hear a "piano" sound as you play, but it will then convert to vocals. So now it's a lot simpler to input notes than before.


Thanks. Yeah, inputting notes from the keyboard works fine, and the thin little piano sound is functional enough for hearing what you're doing... I guess I'll get comfortable with the standalone first and become proficient at navigating that, and revisit the VST aspect at some point later (I'm lazy too)...

...I believe, or at least hope that they'll improve the VST integration with future updates.


----------



## parapentep70

Anthony said:


> This post addresses some of the issues you asked about.


Thanks a lot. I thank you here to keep your thread clean for its purpose. 

Yes, you totally answered my questions 2 & 3. I was afraid these features are yet to come, but I wanted to confirm.

Also, given that you started your thread... I guess that's the best attempt to address the lack of manual, so no point in trying to find one .And this actually responds my last question.

I guess that the fastest learning path is to put more hours working on real projects. It is actually rewarding, I can get acceptable results faster than working with string sample libs.

What a nice community here in vi-control!


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> I was weak and decided to get Cong Zheng, because I liked the English covers I've heard on Youtube.
> I really think Chinese to English cross language synthesis for new voices has improved a lot, _or_ the singer sampled for this voicebank knows English with very little accent. It's probably the best Chinese to English cross language result I've heard out of the other Chinese voicebanks I own (... which are only Feng Yi and Weina, so the sample isn't that big, but still).
> 
> Here's a quick test, base file was made for Solaria so it might not be 100% perfect.
> 
> View attachment CongZheng.mp3


This opens up a lot of possibilities. The youtube @Rikk posted, too. Many thanks.


----------



## soulofsound

raidergale said:


> I've decided to test Cong Zheng in a genre she wasn't really advertised for, but oh well.
> It's a cover of Postmodern Jukebox's arrangement of Sweater Weather. It also features some French in it, so that was fun. Since I don't know French pronunciation might be off, but I did my best.
> I used Hataori's RealVoice script as a base.



This is totally acceptable. Some vowels are a bit off, but on the whole it sounds very French. Much better than any other French i've heard with SynthV. Awesome work there, again!


----------



## bosone

raidergale said:


> I was weak and decided to get Cong Zheng, because I liked the English covers I've heard on Youtube.
> I really think Chinese to English cross language synthesis for new voices has improved a lot, _or_ the singer sampled for this voicebank knows English with very little accent. It's probably the best Chinese to English cross language result I've heard out of the other Chinese voicebanks I own (... which are only Feng Yi and Weina, so the sample isn't that big, but still).
> 
> Here's a quick test, base file was made for Solaria so it might not be 100% perfect.
> 
> View attachment CongZheng.mp3


awesome!!! i wonder if the same english quality applies to the new male voicebank


----------



## Loïc D

Hey, those French lyrics don’t sound that bad (subtitles are helpful though).
I’m sure it could be improved but it’s acceptable from a non French-speaking vocalist (I’ve heard far worse renditions of La Vie en Rose).


----------



## hectoe

Hey all! Thank you for such a great thread! I finally learned something with SV. However, I do have one constant nag that I can't seem to get any support answer from anywhere else. Can anyone enlighten me as to why Kevin is grayed out (and silent) in some areas and some not in this image? TIA


----------



## ibanez1

raidergale said:


> I was weak and decided to get Cong Zheng, because I liked the English covers I've heard on Youtube.
> I really think Chinese to English cross language synthesis for new voices has improved a lot, _or_ the singer sampled for this voicebank knows English with very little accent. It's probably the best Chinese to English cross language result I've heard out of the other Chinese voicebanks I own (... which are only Feng Yi and Weina, so the sample isn't that big, but still).
> 
> Here's a quick test, base file was made for Solaria so it might not be 100% perfect.
> 
> View attachment CongZheng.mp3


I have so far not payed attention much to this thread and then I stopped in here and listened to this cover and my head is about to explode in disbelief.

I guess it's worth asking if one was to get interested and purchase the SynthV bundle with the pro edition + 1 sound bank, what would most people's first sound bank be?

The voice of Cong Zheng here sounds amazing so I might go with that.

I can't believe I've been sleeping on this instrument for this long.


----------



## philthevoid

hectoe said:


> Hey all! Thank you for such a great thread! I finally learned something with SV. However, I do have one constant nag that I can't seem to get any support answer from anywhere else. Can anyone enlighten me as to why Kevin is grayed out (and silent) in some areas and some not in this image? TIA


Looks like notes are overlapping. Just adjust the notes length and it'll be back in beautiful green, and playing.
There might even be a menu option to do it automatically but I can't say as I'm not in front of it at the moment.

-Edit- You might also want to click on the little "SIL" grey boxes. They are there to tell you the notes are close together but not touching (SIL=silence). You will get the best performance out of your singer if you keep those gaps closed.
Think of it as the way to trigger legato (kinda). Notes need to touch but not overlap.


----------



## Ray Toler

philthevoid said:


> On another note, I said I was working on another holidays song with Solaria, Mai, Kevin and Asterian. Here it is, hope you enjoy!



I've heard a lot of great things in this thread, but if there has ever been a demo that made my fingers start insta-buy twitching, it's this one! Stellar work!


----------



## mothershout

> Since this is a very long thread, it may have already been discussed, but the VSTi doesn't seem to behave like a normal VSTi in the DAW (Reaper), and I'm still trying to wrap my head around a workflow that will enable me to efficiently create notes in time and pitch to an audio or MIDI track. As it is, the record, play, stop, start etc. functions don't sync on a SynthV track, and the VST support seems somehow incomplete and awkward to engage.


If it’s any help, I have posted some details of the workflow that I use. Look back at my posts.

I haven’t done any real-time playing of the plugin so far. Like your suggestion #2, I do all the vocal melodies and harmonies first (as piano tracks), export them as separate MIDI files (one per track) and import them into the plugin. Then I do more editing in the plugin.

I have once or twice exported a backing audio track from my DAW and worked with that in the standalone SynthV app. You can save a project from the plugin to an external file, or use Save Inside Host to store the project in the DAW.

The good news is that I think plugin has improved with every release, and I hope that’ll continue!


----------



## Quasar

mothershout said:


> I haven’t done any real-time playing of the plugin so far. Like your suggestion #2, I do all the vocal melodies and harmonies first (as piano tracks), export them as separate MIDI files (one per track) and import them into the plugin. Then I do more editing in the plugin.


Thanks. I've been playing around with it and am coming to the same conclusion. Not the most streamlined workflow imaginable, but not a deal breaker either, and it works. VSTi isn't quite ready for prime-time, at least not yet.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Quasar said:


> Thanks. I've been playing around with it and am coming to the same conclusion. Not the most streamlined workflow imaginable, but not a deal breaker either, and it works. VSTi isn't quite ready for prime-time, at least not yet.


Since it is a new feature, I am sure Dreamtonics guy will improve it by adding regular "arm for recording" mode which will wait for the host. But even now I use it pretty consistently by starting play at the host, then go into Synth V, stop the internal playback, and start internal recording (actually tapping the internal record button twice is enough).


----------



## Quasar

Vlzmusic said:


> Since it is a new feature, I am sure Dreamtonics guy will improve it by adding regular "arm for recording" mode which will wait for the host. But even now I use it pretty consistently by starting play at the host, then go into Synth V, stop the internal playback, and start internal recording (actually tapping the internal record button twice is enough).


If that works for you, cool. Trying to do anything like that drove me crazy though, with timing issues.
I'm finding it doable to begin in the DAW, export both the MIDI destined to become vocals and an audio track with the rhythm and pitch info. Then use SynthV in standalone with the MIDI imported into the vocal tracks and the audio instrumental track. Add words and edit with the already created MIDI, then render the vox as .wav and import the completed vocal files back into the DAW (Reaper)...

...As long as you remember to make sure the tempos are the same in both SynthV and the DAW (which I neglected to do the first time), there are no timing or alignment issues, and everything seems to sync up nicely.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Quasar said:


> If that works for you, cool. Trying to do anything like that drove me crazy though, with timing issues.


Have to concede, considering you have joined the forum one day ahead of me


----------



## raidergale

ibanez1 said:


> I have so far not payed attention much to this thread and then I stopped in here and listened to this cover and my head is about to explode in disbelief.
> 
> I guess it's worth asking if one was to get interested and purchase the SynthV bundle with the pro edition + 1 sound bank, what would most people's first sound bank be?
> 
> The voice of Cong Zheng here sounds amazing so I might go with that.
> 
> I can't believe I've been sleeping on this instrument for this long.


Solaria is probably the best native English female voice, you can find a lot of examples in this thread (and a free low quality version of the voicebank if you'd like to try it beforehand, you can find it on the official website).
Cong Zheng is currently the newest female voice released, and it's a native Chinese voicebank. Her English cross language synthesis is vastly improved over previous Chinese voices though, so if you like her tone it's still a safe bet, just expect slightly more accented vocals compared to a native English one.

I don't have much experience on male vocals, but there are only two native English ones. Kevin, which is a young pop-sounding vocal, and Asterian, which is a really deep bass vocal.
Xuan Yu is the latest male vocal released, native Chinese. I unfortunately don't have first hand experience with that voice, so I don't know if his cross language capabilities are on par with Cong Zheng's.


----------



## richiebee

ibanez1 said:


> I have so far not payed attention much to this thread and then I stopped in here and listened to this cover and my head is about to explode in disbelief.
> 
> I guess it's worth asking if one was to get interested and purchase the SynthV bundle with the pro edition + 1 sound bank, what would most people's first sound bank be?
> 
> The voice of Cong Zheng here sounds amazing so I might go with that.
> 
> I can't believe I've been sleeping on this instrument for this long.


Lots of us bypassed this weird thread called Synthesizer V for months. I know I did! Saw it regularly, and kept ignoring it.

I have experience with four of the English speaking voice packs - Solaria, Natalie, Kevin and Asteria (yes, I did say I had no use for it... no, I don't still feel the same way). 

Of these, I would say that Solaria is the most versatile for most things pop to classical (as classical as these get). Natalie is really smooth, and is my favourite. Would be my preference for stuff on the softer or jazzier side. I think Natalie has the most natural fluidity in terms of smooth lyrical rhythm. In terms of audio quality, they both sound great. I couldn't pick a best of the two in that regard.

The two male voices are more of a contrast to each other. I feel that their lyrical rhythm isn't quite as good as the ladies (they sound a bit square, when left on the grid), and each has a distinctive vocal range and sound. In terms of audio quality, I'd say Kevin sounds better than Asteria, even though Asteria has a much lower frequency range of the actual voice.


----------



## DoubleTap

Is there anything a beginner can judge by the voice pack makers? AHS, Animen, Eclipse - are some better than others?

And, are any of them yet capable of doing soul or opera?


----------



## richiebee

DoubleTap said:


> Is there anything a beginner can judge by the voice pack makers? AHS, Animen, Eclipse - are some better than others?
> 
> And, are any of them yet capable of doing soul or opera?


Since you're here on VI Control, I assume you want to do originals, or at least covers from scratch. This is very different from most of the covers you'll find on YouTube which use software to separate the original vocal from the backing, and then apply the tracking of the original vocal to a Synth-V voicepack. I'm not even sure why people do that, but anyway, it doesn't really impart a ton of the voicepack personality into a track. Originals will tend to impart the personality of the voicepack much more, and is a much more accurate way to determine how well the voicepack was created.

Language will be an important consideration for you (are you looking for a natively English, Japanese or Chinese?), as will whether a voicepack is AI or not.

As for whether they can do soul/opera. Soul is a pretty massive genre. I think in general they can cover it within the personality of the voicepack. In other words, don't try a James Ingram with Kevin, but Asterian can probably do it. None of them are going to do talking or rapping natively, so be prepared for some work if that's in your wish-list. 

I'm hoping to do some soul originals in the new year, and I will likely be trying things out with all four of my current voicepacks (Solaria, Natalie, Kevin, Asterian) in doing so. I'm expecting it to be quite a bit of work, since there's so much stylistically that's important in the delivery soul vocals, and I want to make sure I at least give it my best shot.

For opera - Asterian is probably closest in style natively. There's a version of Nessun Dorma a few pages back (probably 10 pages back by now) on this thread if you want an idea. I suspect diction is a bit of a problem, especially with non-native languages like Italian. 

I've personally stuck with Eclipsed (Solaria and Asterian) and Dreamtonic (Natalie and Kevin) for mine.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

DoubleTap said:


> Is there anything a beginner can judge by the voice pack makers? AHS, Animen, Eclipse - are some better than others?


I think eclipsed has made the best ones, the others vary a lot, even some by the same dev are quite different in quality. Some of them have free lite versions you can try, and there’s the free voice bank that comes with synth v now


----------



## RogiervG

synth V is improving in amazing ways.. comparing recent demos, vs few months ago...


----------



## ibanez1

raidergale said:


> Solaria is probably the best native English female voice, you can find a lot of examples in this thread (and a free low quality version of the voicebank if you'd like to try it beforehand, you can find it on the official website).
> Cong Zheng is currently the newest female voice released, and it's a native Chinese voicebank. Her English cross language synthesis is vastly improved over previous Chinese voices though, so if you like her tone it's still a safe bet, just expect slightly more accented vocals compared to a native English one.
> 
> I don't have much experience on male vocals, but there are only two native English ones. Kevin, which is a young pop-sounding vocal, and Asterian, which is a really deep bass vocal.
> Xuan Yu is the latest male vocal released, native Chinese. I unfortunately don't have first hand experience with that voice, so I don't know if his cross language capabilities are on par with Cong Zheng's.





richiebee said:


> Lots of us bypassed this weird thread called Synthesizer V for months. I know I did! Saw it regularly, and kept ignoring it.
> 
> I have experience with four of the English speaking voice packs - Solaria, Natalie, Kevin and Asteria (yes, I did say I had no use for it... no, I don't still feel the same way).
> 
> Of these, I would say that Solaria is the most versatile for most things pop to classical (as classical as these get). Natalie is really smooth, and is my favourite. Would be my preference for stuff on the softer or jazzier side. I think Natalie has the most natural fluidity in terms of smooth lyrical rhythm. In terms of audio quality, they both sound great. I couldn't pick a best of the two in that regard.
> 
> The two male voices are more of a contrast to each other. I feel that their lyrical rhythm isn't quite as good as the ladies (they sound a bit square, when left on the grid), and each has a distinctive vocal range and sound. In terms of audio quality, I'd say Kevin sounds better than Asteria, even though Asteria has a much lower frequency range of the actual voice.


Seriously thanks so much for the detailed feedback. With such a massive thread it's hard to sift through recommendations so this summarizes perfectly where I should start. Seems like Solaria is more or less unanimous to get. I'll definitely check out Natalie as well. If I really get into this, I'll probably pick up kevin next for duet work.

Now to decide on paying for the bundle directly from dreamtronics or get the discount @Markrs posted for dlsite and have that purchase history for my wife to see when paying bills.....


----------



## Markrs

ibanez1 said:


> Now to decide on paying for the bundle directly from dreamtronics or get the discount @Markrs posted for dlsite and have that purchase history for my wife to see when paying bills.....


Quite a few people on here recommend a pre-paid payment card. On my credit card, the payment just comes up as Dlsite.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

ibanez1 said:


> Seems like Solaria is more or less unanimous to get. I'll definitely check out Natalie as well. If I really get into this, I'll probably pick up kevin next for duet work.


Solaria is great, Weina is also very nice, you will get Mai for free and it's not bad, Asterian is ok but a bit niche, Kevin I don't like at all. Also I somewhat like Anri but there's some kazoo effect in it when listening to the demos.


----------



## DoubleTap

richiebee said:


> Since you're here on VI Control, I assume you want to do originals, or at least covers from scratch. This is very different from most of the covers you'll find on YouTube which use software to separate the original vocal from the backing, and then apply the tracking of the original vocal to a Synth-V voicepack. I'm not even sure why people do that, but anyway, it doesn't really impart a ton of the voicepack personality into a track. Originals will tend to impart the personality of the voicepack much more, and is a much more accurate way to determine how well the voicepack was created.
> 
> Language will be an important consideration for you (are you looking for a natively English, Japanese or Chinese?), as will whether a voicepack is AI or not.
> 
> As for whether they can do soul/opera. Soul is a pretty massive genre. I think in general they can cover it within the personality of the voicepack. In other words, don't try a James Ingram with Kevin, but Asterian can probably do it. None of them are going to do talking or rapping natively, so be prepared for some work if that's in your wish-list.
> 
> I'm hoping to do some soul originals in the new year, and I will likely be trying things out with all four of my current voicepacks (Solaria, Natalie, Kevin, Asterian) in doing so. I'm expecting it to be quite a bit of work, since there's so much stylistically that's important in the delivery soul vocals, and I want to make sure I at least give it my best shot.
> 
> For opera - Asterian is probably closest in style natively. There's a version of Nessun Dorma a few pages back (probably 10 pages back by now) on this thread if you want an idea. I suspect diction is a bit of a problem, especially with non-native languages like Italian.
> 
> I've personally stuck with Eclipsed (Solaria and Asterian) and Dreamtonic (Natalie and Kevin) for mine.



Thanks very much - that’s really helpful. I found the Nessun Dorma demo and it’s very impressive, and finding that post helped flesh out what you were saying. 

I’m interested in the point about the covers - so the Post Modern Jukebox stuff for example probably wasn’t done from scratch?



AceAudioHQ said:


> I think eclipsed has made the best ones, the others vary a lot, even some by the same dev are quite different in quality. Some of them have free lite versions you can try, and there’s the free voice bank that comes with synth v now



Thanks also for this - I feel like I’m not completely shooting in the dark now.


----------



## ibanez1

Markrs said:


> Quite a few people on here recommend a pre-paid payment card. On my credit card, the payment just comes up as Dlsite.


So I purchased Studio pro + kevin with the 30%. Now I can justify getting Solaria as I save a lot of money vs. paying directly from dreamtronics .

I noticed that dlsite supplies download links but they aren't from the dreamtronics website. Is there a way to register the serial directly with dreamtronics? How did you go about the install?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

DoubleTap said:


> Thanks very much - that’s really helpful. I found the Nessun Dorma demo and it’s very impressive, and finding that post helped flesh out what you were saying.
> 
> I’m interested in the point about the covers - so the Post Modern Jukebox stuff for example probably wasn’t done from scratch?


I think most tracks posted here are made with a script which uses the vocal track of the original performance as a carrier for the synth v sound bank, it's a bit misleading for new users, you can do it with the script yourself but getting to that level manually is difficult and a lot of work, richiebee 's songs/tests are mostly (if not all) done by hand, so are mine


----------



## ibanez1

AceAudioHQ said:


> Solaria is great, Weina is also very nice, you will get Mai for free and it's not bad, Asterian is ok but a bit niche, Kevin I don't like at all. Also I somewhat like Anri but there's some kazoo effect in it when listening to the demos.


Ended up getting kevin on the cheap so at least it's not a huge loss if I don't find the voice to fit in anything I work on. He did sound ok for some duet work. I'll have to look into Weina as well. Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## Markrs

ibanez1 said:


> So I purchased Studio pro + kevin with the 30%. Now I can justify getting Solaria as I save a lot of money vs. paying directly from dreamtronics .
> 
> I noticed that dlsite supplies download links but they aren't from the dreamtronics website. Is there a way to register the serial directly with dreamtronics? How did you go about the install?


The serials you use in the software, I didn’t see anywhere you would add them onto the dreamtonics website.


----------



## raidergale

DoubleTap said:


> Thanks very much - that’s really helpful. I found the Nessun Dorma demo and it’s very impressive, and finding that post helped flesh out what you were saying.
> 
> I’m interested in the point about the covers - so the Post Modern Jukebox stuff for example probably wasn’t done from scratch?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks also for this - I feel like I’m not completely shooting in the dark now.


Yes, the Postmodern Jukebox covers I made use a script to get a base pitch line from acapella files. 
You can technically get the same results manually, the only thing it does is alter the pitch line after all, it just takes longer.


----------



## DoubleTap

raidergale said:


> Yes, the Postmodern Jukebox covers I made use a script to get a base pitch line from acapella files.
> You can technically get the same results manually, the only thing it does is alter the pitch line after all, it just takes longer.



They’re very impressive. So if I were to write a song and sing it badly then correct it with Melodyne and finally extract the pitch track, would that be a decent starting point for a SVP voice pack?


----------



## samy

raidergale said:


> Yes, the Postmodern Jukebox covers I made use a script to get a base pitch line from acapella files.
> You can technically get the same results manually, the only thing it does is alter the pitch line after all, it just takes longer.


That sound very interesting, may I ask what script you used, did you program it yourself? I have been looking for a fast way to get the base pitch line for some vocals and this would be a huge help.


----------



## odod

DoubleTap said:


> They’re very impressive. So if I were to write a song and sing it badly then correct it with Melodyne and finally extract the pitch track, would that be a decent starting point for a SVP voice pack?


Just record the midi in the synthV and choose any voice bank you like, and write the lyrics .. voila.

But if yo want to record own voice and convert them into AI sound, you should go with Vocaloid 6


----------



## raidergale

samy said:


> That sound very interesting, may I ask what script you used, did you program it yourself? I have been looking for a fast way to get the base pitch line for some vocals and this would be a huge help.


I used Praat, in conjunction with Hataori's RealVoice script.
Hataori made a full tutorial playlist on Youtube. The "New easier method 1 and 2" videos are what I basically do, but you might also want to watch the previous videos to get an idea on how Praat works.



DoubleTap said:


> They’re very impressive. So if I were to write a song and sing it badly then correct it with Melodyne and finally extract the pitch track, would that be a decent starting point for a SVP voice pack?


That could work, but maybe at that point it would be better to just use the voicebank's auto pitching function, which tries to mimick the voice provider's style of singing. Unless you're looking to recreate the style of the singer whose acapella you're sampling, of course.


----------



## odod

a little experiment with Asterian .. need to explore deeper


----------



## odod

getting like by @Blancanegra is really an honor for me


----------



## ReelToLogic

AceAudioHQ said:


> Solaria is great, Weina is also very nice, you will get Mai for free and it's not bad....


How do you get Mai for free? I have the full version of Synth-V. Mai doesn't show up in my app and I couldn't find Mai anywhere on the Dreamtonics website so I'm confused how several people have mentioned this.


----------



## David Cuny

ReelToLogic said:


> How do you get Mai for free? I have the full version of Synth-V. Mai doesn't show up in my app and I couldn't find Mai anywhere on the Dreamtonics website so I'm confused how several people have mentioned this.


Direct Link: https://resource.dreamtonics.com/do...e Databases for Synthesizer V Studio Pro/Mai/

You can find the voicebank by going to the Dreamtonics site and scrolling to the "Meet our Voices" section.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

ReelToLogic said:


> How do you get Mai for free? I have the full version of Synth-V. Mai doesn't show up in my app and I couldn't find Mai anywhere on the Dreamtonics website so I'm confused how several people have mentioned this.








index - powered by h5ai v0.29.2 (https://larsjung.de/h5ai/)


index - powered by h5ai v0.29.2 (https://larsjung.de/h5ai/)




resource.dreamtonics.com


----------



## RogiervG

odod said:


> a little experiment with Asterian .. need to explore deeper



Although it's not bad at all.. the voice of asterian is not matching the arrangement. It's too deep/low character, a lighter/thinner and higher pitched sound (asterian is a barriton, not a tenor, and you can hear that no matter how high you pitch it up.. it's in the character of the voice too (hollow-ish)). Some voices suit some music better than others.. like in real life


----------



## philthevoid

Ray Toler said:


> I've heard a lot of great things in this thread, but if there has ever been a demo that made my fingers start insta-buy twitching, it's this one! Stellar work!


Wow, thanks a lot! I put a bit of love into it, I'm glad it shows!
I just hope you won't regret it when/if you click that Buy button, else I'll feel responsible... 

Since that post was pretty popular, I decided to finish the other draft I'd started earlier. It's not going to be as good but I still thought I should share. I just didn't spend as much time on it since Christmas is very soon, and starting on the 26th, I won't want to hear any holidays song for a good 10-11 months! 

Anyways, long story short... here is "Let It Snow!", barbershop-style.



*Hope you all have a wonderful end of the year!*


----------



## odod

RogiervG said:


> Although it's not bad at all.. the voice of asterian is not matching the arrangement. It's too deep/low character, a lighter/thinner and higher pitched sound (asterian is a barriton, not a tenor, and you can hear that no matter how high you pitch it up.. it's in the character of the voice too (hollow-ish)). Some voices suit some music better than others.. like in real life


Thank you for the input, the arrangement just a simple iReal rendered backing track, I am just in experimental phase with his voice, and also i think youtube compressed my video a bit far, since i made it quite a loudness. 

here's a better version (maybe) :D
View attachment untitled.mp3


----------



## parapentep70

A quick original for Solaria and a bit of Kevin. Under a tight deadline!


----------



## mallux




----------



## bosone

mallux said:


>



Well, that's insane! Need it NOW!


----------



## JimDiGritz

AceAudioHQ said:


> I think most tracks posted here are made with a script which uses the vocal track of the original performance as a carrier for the synth v sound bank, it's a bit misleading for new users, you can do it with the script yourself but getting to that level manually is difficult and a lot of work, richiebee 's songs/tests are mostly (if not all) done by hand, so are mine


Exactly, here is a completely 'hand made' MIDI track with Solaria. I manually created each instrument part (BBCSO if I remember) in Reaper and used Solaria in SynthV


----------



## Chungus

mallux said:


>



Now _that's_ a Christmas present! /Ö\


----------



## Blancanegra

DoubleTap said:


> Thanks very much - that’s really helpful. I found the Nessun Dorma demo and it’s very impressive, and finding that post helped flesh out what you were saying.
> 
> I’m interested in the point about the covers - so the Post Modern Jukebox stuff for example probably wasn’t done from scratch?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks also for this - I feel like I’m not completely shooting in the dark now.





AceAudioHQ said:


> I think most tracks posted here are made with a script which uses the vocal track of the original performance as a carrier for the synth v sound bank, it's a bit misleading for new users, you can do it with the script yourself but getting to that level manually is difficult and a lot of work, richiebee 's songs/tests are mostly (if not all) done by hand, so are mine


All my demos are done from scratch aswell, no scripts used.
The Hataori script is interesting but I don't find it particularly useful in the workflow of most users as it is slow, cumbersome and inflexible. On the other hand, I would find it interesting if Synth V allowed importing a user's voice track representing the pitch to serve as a guide or reference. In this way, a new voice track can be recreated over it without having to copy the exact performance of the original track, which could be out of tune, with time problems or different lyrics.


----------



## Blancanegra

parapentep70 said:


> A quick original for Solaria and a bit of Kevin. Under a tight deadline!



It's fine for a male voice, but too high for a female voice, she sings too forcefully at the limit of her range... have you considered transposing the melody 4 semitones down?


----------



## parapentep70

Blancanegra said:


> It's fine for a male voice, but too high for a female voice, she sings too forcefully at the limit of her range... have you considered transposing the melody 4 semitones down?


Absolutely! But no time. It was something totally rushed. The funny thing is that the way I worked on this song it could be easy to fix. You're right.


----------



## David Baran

richiebee said:


> This is very different from most of the covers you'll find on YouTube which use software to separate the original vocal from the backing, and then apply the tracking of the original vocal to a Synth-V voicepack.


Can you Eli5 this for me (Explain it like I'm 5)? What is "backing" mean in this context? Separating it from the backup vocals/singers or from the instruments like using Spleeter or something?

What does "tracking of the original" mean? Putting the AI voice bank into the exact same structure as the original instead of manually tuning the singing sections/vocals?

Sorry, but I don't know anything about writing or creating songs, lyrics, or anything to do with singing/covers/etc. Everything I have ever done has been cinematic/underscore/instrumental or just strictly V.O. narration. I haven't used SynthV yet either.

Like quite a few people here, I stumbled upon this thread, and I have been occasionally poking my head in here.

I always wanted to learn how to write songs but I can't sing and I wasn't sure I wanted to find someone to sing to my music.

Vocaloid5 seemed like an interesting option originally, since I also like anime. I found Vocaloid5 and considered maybe getting it, up until I found this thread.

A few months ago I caved in and I bought SynthV. I picked up both Solaria and Weina. It was a few weeks before Natalie came out.

I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, because I got hit with Covid really hard which put a complete stop on any and all of my work. I'm still recovering from that.

The other thing that also sold me on Synth V was hearing this cover of one of Arknights (Gacha game) songs called "March On".



This was also the only track/cover I found that was not strictly standard pop, and was more epic/powerful/operatic...a march. This cover was made before Solaria's vocal modes update. I thought it sounded pretty impressive.

So is this cover song using the method you described above?

Here is the original 

Besides just learning how to song write, maybe first trying to make some covers and then originals, I want to just noodle around in SynthV and my DAW and just experiment.

I want to see if I can combine these voice sets with some of my choirs, or like my Etheras, and see what nonsense I can create out of that, just to see what happens. I don't know if that's a good idea or not but that's what I want to find out, for science. 

If it doesn't work, then I guess I'll try writing the next billboard hit for Taylor Swift.


----------



## Vlzmusic

David Baran said:


> Can you Eli5 this for me (Explain it like I'm 5)? What is "backing" mean in this context? Separating it from the backup vocals/singers or from the instruments like using Spleeter or something?
> 
> What does "tracking of the original" mean? Putting the AI voice bank into the exact same structure as the original instead of manually tuning the singing sections/vocals?
> 
> Sorry, but I don't know anything about writing or creating songs, lyrics, or anything to do with singing/covers/etc. Everything I have ever done has been cinematic/underscore/instrumental or just strictly V.O. narration. I haven't used SynthV yet either.
> 
> Like quite a few people here, I stumbled upon this thread, and I have been occasionally poking my head in here.
> 
> I always wanted to learn how to write songs but I can't sing and I wasn't sure I wanted to find someone to sing to my music.
> 
> Vocaloid5 seemed like an interesting option originally, since I also like anime. I found Vocaloid5 and considered maybe getting it, up until I found this thread.
> 
> A few months ago I caved in and I bought SynthV. I picked up both Solaria and Weina. It was a few weeks before Natalie came out.
> 
> I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, because I got hit with Covid really hard which put a complete stop on any and all of my work. I'm still recovering from that.
> 
> The other thing that also sold me on Synth V was hearing this cover of one of Arknights (Gacha game) songs called "March On".
> 
> 
> 
> This was also the only track/cover I found that was not strictly standard pop, and was more epic/powerful/operatic...a march. This cover was made before Solaria's vocal modes update. I thought it sounded pretty impressive.
> 
> So is this cover song using the method you described above?
> 
> Here is the original
> 
> Besides just learning how to song write, maybe first trying to make some covers and then originals, I want to just noodle around in SynthV and my DAW and just experiment.
> 
> I want to see if I can combine these voice sets with some of my choirs, or like my Etheras, and see what nonsense I can create out of that, just to see what happens. I don't know if that's a good idea or not but that's what I want to find out, for science.
> 
> If it doesn't work, then I guess I'll try writing the next billboard hit for Taylor Swift.



I think the idea was that many demos of both Vocaloid and Synth V based on the pitch of a real singer singing the actual song. To extract the pitch you need the voice soloed - in this case by a program that can separate voice from all the arrangement (backing) in a track.

Needless to say, that this workflow is mostly irrelevant for your own material, and lifelike pitch achieved through work with the AI engine of Synth V.


----------



## P3TAAL

Just in case anyone runs into the same issue as me as a logic user. Synth V wouldn't show up in logic until i updated Synth V to the latest version. This was with a copy bought via DLsite. I don't know if that matters though.


----------



## David Baran

Vlzmusic said:


> I think the idea was that many demos of both Vocaloid and Synth V based on the pitch of a real singer singing the actual song. To extract the pitch you need the voice soloed - in this case by a program that can separate voice from all the arrangement (backing) in a track.
> 
> Needless to say, that this workflow is mostly irrelevant for your own material, and lifelike pitch achieved through work with the AI engine of Synth V.


Ok, that makes sense, thank you.


----------



## Hadrondrift

P3TAAL said:


> until i updated Synth V to the latest version. This was with a copy bought via DLsite.


Just to be on the safe side, as I am on the fence: Even if you bought Synthesizer V from DLsite, can you later download updates/beta versions from Dreamtonics? So basically you just buy a serial number, and it doesn't matter where you got it from, the product activation always goes through Dreamtonics?

It is really a steal, as I can get Synth V + Kevin for about half the price (11457 JPY ≈ 80 EUR) I would have to pay at Dreamtonics, even it is kind of weird; have to buy "points" via a third party company (dl-pay.com) to use PayPal.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Hadrondrift said:


> Just to be on the safe side, as I am on the fence: Even if you bought Synthesizer V from DLsite, can you later download updates/beta versions from Dreamtonics? So basically you just buy a serial number, and it doesn't matter where you got it from, the product activation always goes through Dreamtonics?
> 
> It is really a steal, as I can get Synth V + Kevin for about half the price I would have to pay at Dreamtonics, even it is kind of weird; have to buy "points" via a third party company (DLPay) to use PayPal.


Sure, all updates happen within the plugin itself.


----------



## ibanez1

Hadrondrift said:


> Just to be on the safe side, as I am on the fence: Even if you bought Synthesizer V from DLsite, can you later download updates/beta versions from Dreamtonics? So basically you just buy a serial number, and it doesn't matter where you got it from, the product activation always goes through Dreamtonics?
> 
> It is really a steal, as I can get Synth V + Kevin for about half the price I would have to pay at Dreamtonics, even it is kind of weird; have to buy "points" via a third party company (DLPay) to use PayPal.


As far as I can tell yes. I got the dlsite deal and within synthv studio, I got updates to the latest for both studio and Kevin.


----------



## P3TAAL

ibanez1 said:


> As far as I can tell yes. I got the dlsite deal and within synthv studio, I got updates to the latest for both studio and Kevin.


I can also confirm this


----------



## Hataori

Blancanegra said:


> I don't find it particularly useful in the workflow of most users as it is slow, cumbersome and inflexible.


I would add "... the workflow of most users OF THIS FORUM ...". There is a lot of non artists enjoing making covers of their favorite songs with their favorite voices and trying to sound realistic or close to originals or making it speak.

It was because of the cumbersomeness of handling lengths of consonants and inflexibility in choosing a voice bank (have to buy again and again, not able to make custome one) I gave up on SynthV and stopped maintaining and developing scripts for it.

This forum is kind of a bubble of a specific users of vocal synths. You are the artists creating your own songs. I think this synth is certainly focused on you and on making money of you. Enjoy.

There are many different users and uses of vocal synths out there.

But don't take me wrong - I am thankful to SynthV to bring me to this field and to the idea of using Praat for this. Now I can do with Praat itself and Utau voice banks.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Hataori said:


> I would add "... the workflow of most users OF THIS FORUM ...". There is a lot of non artists enjoing making covers of their favorite songs with their favorite voices and trying to sound realistic or close to originals or making it speak.
> 
> It was because of the cumbersomeness of handling lengths of consonants and inflexibility in choosing a voice bank (have to buy again and again, not able to make custome one) I gave up on SynthV and stopped maintaining and developing scripts for it.
> 
> This forum is kind of a bubble of a specific users of vocal synths. You are the artists creating your own songs. I think this synth is certainly focused on you and on making money of you. Enjoy.
> 
> There are many different users and uses of vocal synths out there.
> 
> But don't take me wrong - I am thankful to SynthV to bring me to this field and to the idea of using Praat for this. Now I can do with Praat itself and Utau voice banks.


I would somewhat agree with you if it wasn't for Synth V being the best bang for your mouse click. At this point in time, its jut hit play and enjoy, if you don't care for little details, and nuances only pros deal with.

I've been with Vocaloid community for over a decade, somewhere around version 2 launch, and I'd say the non pro users, even teenagers, are also very fond of getting good results, and many do care. Of course many of them use premade projects, and enjoy swapping vocals just for fun - Synth V does that perfectly, cause just reinserting a different voicebank and hitting play will bring all of its personality, and give its best shot at the song. It will also sound fresh, since the performance will be recalculated, and surely give you results no Vocaloid or Utau can touch nowadays. People will appreciate that, and the community will thrive.

As for money digging - Yamaha was never cheap, and people bought lots and lots of voices, so nothing new here. At least with Synth V you get really good ones, that can do a lot.


----------



## Hataori

Vlzmusic said:


> I would somewhat agree with you if it wasn't for Synth V being the best bang for your mouse click. At this point in time, its jut hit play and enjoy, if you don't care for little details, and nuances only pros deal with.
> 
> I've been with Vocaloid community for over a decade, somewhere around version 2 launch, and I'd say the non pro users, even teenagers, are also very fond of getting good results, and many do care. Of course many of them use premade projects, and enjoy swapping vocals just for fun - Synth V does that perfectly, cause just reinserting a different voicebank and hitting play will bring all of its personality, and give its best shot at the song. It will also sound fresh, since the performance will be recalculated, and surely give you the best results, no Vocaloid or Utau can touch nowadays. People will appreciate that, and the community will thrive.
> 
> As for money digging - Yamaha was never cheap, and people bought lots and lots of voices, so nothing new here. At least with Synth V you get really good ones, that can do a lot.


I think you have missed my point (because I havn't explained it well). I have it other way round - I talk about Utau. And about those who make the premade projects.
For me the plug & play approach is boring. I rather like the "tuning" process itself than good results without any work.
It's like mastering a very bad instrument, but it's yours. Not buyed in a store. It's a challenge. This is what I have found in Utau. I can make my bank or improve other's I can make my own engine. This is what no commercial SW can ever give me.

Edit: I'v got 6 SynthV AI voice bank for "swapping" - I think the teenagers could have a good computer for the money, if they had it.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Hataori said:


> I think you have missed my point (because I havn't explained it well). I have it other way round - I talk about Utau. And about those who make the premade projects.
> For me the plug & play approach is boring. I rather like the "tuning" process itself than good results without any work.
> It's like mastering a very bad instrument, but it's yours. Not buyed in a store. It's a challenge. This is what I have found in Utau. I can make my bank or improve other's I can make my own engine. This is what no commercial SW can ever give me.


Aha, then its you who is in a niche bubble, my friend


----------



## Hataori

Vlzmusic said:


> Aha, then its you who is in a niche bubble, my friend


Maybe.  I didn't say niche. Only bubble appropriate to this forum's focus.


----------



## odod

almost done, transcribing Xuan Yu's demo song .. I really like the song, got a help from a friend for the chinese words

it's kevin btw

View attachment Chinese Song.mp3


----------



## Lunatique

odod said:


> almost done, transcribing Xuan Yu's demo song .. I really like the song, got a help from a friend for the chinese words
> 
> it's kevin btw
> 
> View attachment Chinese Song.mp3


This made me laugh, not because it's bad, but because of how it totally reflects real-life experiences I've had with Chinese Americans who were born in the States or came very early, and they often would speak with an English accent in their Chinese, sounding similar to how if you were to teach any average American off the street a Chinese phrase, you'd get something similar. 

Kevin's voice bank, AFAIK, is of an English speaking person, and I assume never recorded Chinese-specific library of sounds required to do perfectly natural Chinese pronunciation, and in your song, he sometimes sounded like what I described above.


----------



## odod

Lunatique said:


> This made me laugh, not because it's bad, but because of how it totally reflects real-life experiences I've had with Chinese Americans who were born in the States or came very early, and they often would speak with an English accent in their Chinese, sounding similar to how if you were to teach any average American off the street a Chinese phrase, you'd get something similar.
> 
> Kevin's voice bank, AFAIK, is of an English speaking person, and I assume never recorded Chinese-specific library of sounds required to do perfectly natural Chinese pronunciation, and in your song, he sometimes sounded like what I described above.


Agree with you ... he sounded like my student too actually, nasally on certain words due to the nature that in our school we speak at least 3 languages .. sometimes the accent just totally messed up.


----------



## David Cuny

Lunatique said:


> ...and they often would speak with an English accent in their Chinese, sounding similar to how if you were to teach any average American off the street a Chinese phrase, you'd get something similar.


It seems that male voices have more issues than female voices, perhaps because the formants are higher, or perhaps the female voices use purer vowels.

You can _sometimes_ mash vowels together like */ae ah/ *to shape them closer to how a native speaker pronounces them, but that's not always successful.


----------



## bvaughn0402

What is the consensus for must-have voices?

And essential tutorials to really get going on this?


----------



## Swamp Gas

mallux said:


>



Take my money!


----------



## David Cuny

bvaughn0402 said:


> What is the consensus for must-have voices?
> 
> And essential tutorials to really get going on this?


Unfortunately, there isn't a current _SynthV_ manual. You're probably best starting with the video tutorial series:



As for the "must have" voices, it's a bit like asking what the best sampled violin is. It depends on what you're trying to do with the voice, how expressive you need it to be, the range it needs to sing, and so on. Each voice is sampled from an actual singer, so it reflects the qualities of that singer.

With the native English voices, _Solaria_ is hands down the best female voice, followed by _Eleanor Forte_ and/or _Natalie_. _Kevin_ the best male voice, but he sort of wins by default, because _Asterian_ the only other male voice, and he's a bass. 

In a pinch, you can actually do a fair emulation of male voices with some of the female singers using the _Gender_ parameter.

_Dreamtonics_ has announced that there's a male rock voice right around the corner, and Audiologic has said they'll soon be releasing a voicebank to pair with _Anri_, which _might_ imply it's a native English male voicebank. So the lack of male native English voices may change in the near future.


----------



## Lunatique

Swamp Gas said:


> Take my money!


Imagine if he could also do death metal growls and screams.


----------



## Hadrondrift

Lunatique said:


> Imagine if he could also do death metal growls and screams.


Something like that would convince me, even though the audience seems rather unimpressed:


----------



## gedlig

Lunatique said:


> Imagine if he could also do death metal growls and screams.


Give me Hiro from Nocturnal bloodlust and I'm instabuying


----------



## richiebee

bvaughn0402 said:


> What is the consensus for must-have voices?
> 
> And essential tutorials to really get going on this?


I think Solaria is the must-have. Very versatile, good range, good variety of timbres to handle a lot of different styles.
Beyond that, I think it depends what style you're after. Along with Solaria, I have Natalie, Kevin and Asterian. In their ranges and intended styles, they are all great and I have no regrets over which ones I bought. I am interested to see what Dreamtonics comes up with next (their Christmas teaser looks like it could be very useful, but it's a bit early to say).


----------



## ScarletJerry

richiebee said:


> I think Solaria is the must-have. Very versatile, good range, good variety of timbres to handle a lot of different styles.
> Beyond that, I think it depends what style you're after. Along with Solaria, I have Natalie, Kevin and Asterian. In their ranges and intended styles, they are all great and I have no regrets over which ones I bought. I am interested to see what Dreamtonics comes up with next (their Christmas teaser looks like it could be very useful, but it's a bit early to say).


I agree that Solaria is the best of the currently available voices. I also have Kevin, just to give me a male option, but Solaria is far better than any of the voices that I’ve heard. I am interested in getting Natalie, but not sure, because I’m very happy with Solaria. I have to decide if Natalie’s voice is THAT different in order to justify that purchase.


----------



## DoubleTap

Are there any Dreamtronics or Eclipsed introductory offers? I’ve just spaffed about 90 dollars at DLSite* and I’m keen to double my money on Solaria. 

*(on Kevin and SVPro of course, you filthy sods)


----------



## Markrs

DoubleTap said:


> Are there any Dreamtronics or Eclipsed introductory offers? I’ve just spaffed about 90 dollars at DLSite* and I’m keen to double my money on Solaria.
> 
> *(on Kevin and SVPro of course, you filthy sods)


They did have a Bundle deal with Solaria and Asterian (which also had $10 off) with 25% off but that has now ended. Previously they haven’t had a sale before that bundle discount.


----------



## parapentep70

DoubleTap said:


> Are there any Dreamtronics or Eclipsed introductory offers? I’ve just spaffed about 90 dollars at DLSite* and I’m keen to double my money on Solaria.
> 
> *(on Kevin and SVPro of course, you filthy sods)


Buying as much as possible from DLSite is the cheapest. About this I did EVERYTHING wrong: Bought Solaria in Dreamtonics and Synth-V in ANiCUTE with minimum discount (and VAT). Weeks later AFTER I signed-in in DLSite and put Kevin in the cart... I tried to get the 30% discount! and it was too late. Anyway DLSite does not charge VAT at the moment and at least I got a 15% discount from a coupon, so less than half the price paid for Solaria.

By the way, from the libs sold by DLSite, anyone recommends any library that works in English other than Kevin? Maki Tsurumaki is in English but... not exactly the type of voice I am after.


----------



## David Cuny

parapentep70 said:


> By the way, from the libs sold by DLSite, anyone recommends any library that works in English other than Kevin? Maki Tsurumaki is in English but... not exactly the type of voice I am after.


Maki Tsurumaki isn't _native_ English, so she'll have more of an accent than a trans-lingual voice.


----------



## parapentep70

David Cuny said:


> Maki Tsurumaki isn't _native_ English, so she'll have more of an accent than a trans-lingual voice.


Thanks, I think I will wait then. I must do something else with what I already have, instead of buying cheap what I do not need.


----------



## richiebee

ScarletJerry said:


> I am interested in getting Natalie, but not sure, because I’m very happy with Solaria.


There's a lot of crossover between Solaria and Natalie, and no question, Solaria has a wider range of timbres. But I dunno... Natalie has something really special for the softer side. First demos I heard here on VI, I commented that she had a Karen Carpenter quality to her voice. I still feel that way. It's a certain smoothness in the quality of the voice itself, and in the transitions.


----------



## mothershout

ScarletJerry said:


> I agree that Solaria is the best of the currently available voices. I also have Kevin, just to give me a male option, but Solaria is far better than any of the voices that I’ve heard. I am interested in getting Natalie, but not sure, because I’m very happy with Solaria. I have to decide if Natalie’s voice is THAT different in order to justify that purchase.


I think that Natalie’s voice is different enough from Solaria’s that if you have them sing the same lines (or a close harmony), they sit in the sweet spot between being too different and blending too much. But of course, your personal cost/benefit calculation may be different!


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

Posting just to see if I can subscribe to this thread by posting in it.


----------



## Quasar

I agree this could use a truly comprehensive manual. I also wouldn't mind seeing the feature where placing the mouse over an icon gives you an explanation of the function. Ideally, this could be toggled off/on.

There is a manual here, quickstart and intermediate guides that are fairly terse, but much better than nothing. Some useful YouTube videos, too:


----------



## Quasar

Spaces Are Okay said:


> Posting just to see if I can subscribe to this thread by posting in it.


You can hit the "Watch" button and it will appear in your "Watched forums".


----------



## odod

Quasar said:


> I agree this could use a truly comprehensive manual. I also wouldn't mind seeing the feature where placing the mouse over an icon gives you an explanation of the function. Ideally, this could be toggled off/on.
> 
> There is a manual here, quickstart and intermediate guides that are fairly terse, but much better than nothing. Some useful YouTube videos, too:



He can actually uses - sign instead of splitting the syllable tho. Nice tutorial btw


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

Quasar said:


> You can hit the "Watch" button and it will appear in your "Watched forums".


Thanks. Is there any function that sends post summaries via email when new things are posted to a thread? Some forums have it as part of their software but didn't see anything similar here.


----------



## bvaughn0402

Thanks everyone! There was mention the other day of a script along with a video tutorial as well? Or am I dreaming?


----------



## rmak

I just found this Adele cover by Solaria. It sounds amazing!

Does anyone have experience with doing vocal covers like this using synth V. Does it take a long time to program? Would you be able to use this software to help with song writing, or would you get buried with the programming to make it sound this good? Is it a steep learning curve? I m curious how long it would take for me to 1) learn and become fluid with the software and 2) program for a 3 min track for instance. I think the creator of this cover has been doing covers like this for about 5 or so years.

I ve been watching YouTube tutorials, and the software is pretty deep. It s pretty amazing. I didn’t know synth vocals have come this far. Thanks for any feedback.


----------



## David Cuny

rmak said:


> Would you be able to use this software to help with song writing, or would you get buried with the programming to make it sound this good? Is it a steep learning curve? I m curious how long it would take for me to 1) learn and become fluid with the software and 2) program for a 3 min track for instance. I think the creator of this cover has been doing covers like this for about 5 or so years.


It's basically working with a piano roll editor. If you've done it with other instruments, it's the same thing here.

It used to be pretty tedious to enter in notes, but you can now do it via a MIDI keyboard from within the program. I've only tried it out a bit, but it seems to work well.

Unlike _Vocaloid_, _SynthV_ has a feature where the program has been trained on examples of the actual singer. So you can use that feature to get the general feel of what you want, and then edit the parts you didn't like by either selecting those notes and creating a new take with different parameters, or hand-editing the parameters.

Trying to create a copy of an existing performance is an useful exercise, but not one that I find especially interesting. Copy an existing song, and all you've got is a copy of a song. Besides, there are tools in this thread that will help you do that automatically.

Using the *Auto Pitch Tune* feature to "humanize" a performance, you can get a very good performance "out of the box" without too much effort.

You can also group notes and modify the voice settings within that group. For example, you can set the *Vocal Mode* on a group in the verse to "Soft", and to "Bold" on the chorus.

Of course, you can go a _lot_ deeper than that. But those two features will do a lot of work for you that used to have to be done by hand.

Having a synthetic voice is helpful for songwriting the same way any VI is. For example, it's easy to change out lyrics, or try things with harmonies to hear how well they work. So it encourages experimentation. But if you find writing lyrics difficult, this is unlikely to make things easier.

I suspect that trying the free version of the editor for yourself would probably answer a number of questions. It has less features than the full one, but will give you a pretty good taste of what it can do.


----------



## Gaffable

Spaces Are Okay said:


> Thanks. Is there any function that sends post summaries via email when new things are posted to a thread? Some forums have it as part of their software but didn't see anything similar here.


Yes, this function exists. Click on the "Watch" button in the top right-hand corner of any page of this discussion thread, then select "and receive email notifications".








Personally, I prefer not to receive email notifications for individual posts. If there is a VI-Control thread that really interests me and I want to be informed of any new posts in that thread, I select the option to be notified WITHOUT receiving email notifications. Any time I am logged into the VI-Control website and there are new posts in a thread that I am following, VI-Control notifies me by changing the colour of the bell icon to red.

I do get email notifications for new discussion threads that are created, which I explain here.


----------



## Denkii

@raidergale ANY chance that you are working on an Asterian remake of Disturbed's version of the sound of silence?


----------



## raidergale

Denkii said:


> @raidergale ANY chance that you are working on an Asterian remake of Disturbed's version of the sound of silence?


I don't own Asterian, so that's a no, unfortunately!


----------



## richiebee

rmak said:


> I just found this Adele cover by Solaria. It sounds amazing!
> 
> Does anyone have experience with doing vocal covers like this using synth V. Does it take a long time to program? Would you be able to use this software to help with song writing, or would you get buried with the programming to make it sound this good? Is it a steep learning curve? I m curious how long it would take for me to 1) learn and become fluid with the software and 2) program for a 3 min track for instance. I think the creator of this cover has been doing covers like this for about 5 or so years.
> 
> I ve been watching YouTube tutorials, and the software is pretty deep. It s pretty amazing. I didn’t know synth vocals have come this far. Thanks for any feedback.



Working with covers in the "voice replacement" cycle is completely different from creating a song from scratch. I'm not sure what the point of the voice replacement thing is to be honest. You're NOT going to get Solaria to sing better than Adele, so stealing Adele's backing track, and her vocal characteristics, and applying them to Solaria. Why would you do that? 

Anyway, about songwriting... I do all my vocal line songwriting inside Synth-V. I'm not very good at writing lyrics, so mostly, I work with people who are much better at it than I am. I am trying to improve though!

A track:

View attachment whenthatdaycomes-221218.mp3


So, in this track above, I started with a lyric and nothing else. I had a basic form for the piano part, and the entire vocal melody and structure done in about half an hour. In order to do so, it was very important not to worry about the minutiae. Choose a singer, give them a character, and LET THEM DO THE WORK. The only thing, other than the basic note and lyric input that you should be concerned with, is significant dynamic changes. These Synth-V voicepacks are insanely good, and you can, with all confidence leave the singer to do the phrasing and note transitions as they have already been programmed to do. When you've finished your song you can work on making improvements where you need to. For my part, these are minimal. The vocal in the example above has not had much work done from simple quantized blobs on the Synth-V piano roll. Now that all that work is done, I'm going back through to make more dramatic changes in dynamics and maybe make some subtle timing changes. In terms of pitch, I don't think I need to do anything. I feel like the backing needs more work than the vocal part to be honest.

Working with Synth-V for me is pretty much like my experience working with real singers, except that I have access to it 24/7. I've spent more on singing sessions to get songs (mostly) where I envisioned them to be when I wrote them.

I'll also say that so far my experience has been that the female voices have a more human expression and musical sense of timing than the male ones. When you write things on a quantized grid, the females seem to do a better job of taking notes off the grid in a musical way. That said, they're all just great. It's a massive leap forward to what we've been doing in the past.


----------



## requiemdissident

richiebee said:


> Working with covers in the "voice replacement" cycle is completely different from creating a song from scratch. I'm not sure what the point of the voice replacement thing is to be honest. You're NOT going to get Solaria to sing better than Adele, so stealing Adele's backing track, and her vocal characteristics, and applying them to Solaria. Why would you do that?


Honestly, I agree. I don't get it either. The only instance where I would use something like this is to either use my own voice as a pitch template if I'm not sure how to fine tune the pitch or to study pitch nuances of other songs and learn how to replicate them.


----------



## J. H. Smith

richiebee said:


> Working with covers in the "voice replacement" cycle is completely different from creating a song from scratch. I'm not sure what the point of the voice replacement thing is to be honest. You're NOT going to get Solaria to sing better than Adele, so stealing Adele's backing track, and her vocal characteristics, and applying them to Solaria. Why would you do that?
> 
> Anyway, about songwriting... I do all my vocal line songwriting inside Synth-V. I'm not very good at writing lyrics, so mostly, I work with people who are much better at it than I am. I am trying to improve though!
> 
> A track:
> 
> View attachment whenthatdaycomes-221218.mp3
> 
> 
> So, in this track above, I started with a lyric and nothing else. I had a basic form for the piano part, and the entire vocal melody and structure done in about half an hour. In order to do so, it was very important not to worry about the minutiae. Choose a singer, give them a character, and LET THEM DO THE WORK. The only thing, other than the basic note and lyric input that you should be concerned with, is significant dynamic changes. These Synth-V voicepacks are insanely good, and you can, with all confidence leave the singer to do the phrasing and note transitions as they have already been programmed to do. When you've finished your song you can work on making improvements where you need to. For my part, these are minimal. The vocal in the example above has not had much work done from simple quantized blobs on the Synth-V piano roll. Now that all that work is done, I'm going back through to make more dramatic changes in dynamics and maybe make some subtle timing changes. In terms of pitch, I don't think I need to do anything. I feel like the backing needs more work than the vocal part to be honest.
> 
> Working with Synth-V for me is pretty much like my experience working with real singers, except that I have access to it 24/7. I've spent more on singing sessions to get songs (mostly) where I envisioned them to be when I wrote them.
> 
> I'll also say that so far my experience has been that the female voices have a more human expression and musical sense of timing than the male ones. When you write things on a quantized grid, the females seem to do a better job of taking notes off the grid in a musical way. That said, they're all just great. It's a massive leap forward to what we've been doing in the past.


"A track" is a lovely ballad! It sticks in my mind after the first listen.

Who is the singer? Natalie, perhaps? Her lower notes in the track are full of character and subdued power and they counter her more tender, higher range in a most exciting way.


----------



## zinct

Denkii said:


> @raidergale ANY chance that you are working on an Asterian remake of Disturbed's version of the sound of silence?


Not quite up to Raidergale's standard, but I started work on this a while back using Kevin but abandoned it as he couldn't go that low without a lot of noise. Anyway, I just tried substituting Asterian in his place and the results aren't bad. Here's the intro...


View attachment Sound of Silence Intro (Asterian).mp3


----------



## Cyberic

richiebee said:


> .... I started with a lyric and nothing else. I had a basic form for the piano part, and the entire vocal melody and structure done in about half an hour.
> 
> I'll also say that so far my experience has been that the female voices have a more human expression and musical sense of timing than the male ones. When you write things on a quantized grid, the females seem to do a better job of taking notes off the grid in a musical way. That said, they're all just great. It's a massive leap forward to what we've been doing in the past.


This track and song are exceptional in my opinion.

Amazing what’s achievable. We’re blessed with today’s technology.
Well done _richiebee_.


----------



## Denkii

zinct said:


> Not quite up to Raidergale's standard, but I started work on this a while back using Kevin but abandoned it as he couldn't go that low without a lot of noise. Anyway, I just tried substituting Asterian in his place and the results aren't bad. Here's the intro...
> 
> 
> View attachment Sound of Silence Intro (Asterian).mp3


Thank you so much!

I don't know what it is but Asterian (and Kevin) often seem to sound more auto-tuned by default compared to something like Solaria or Natalie.
I don't hate it...it's just a very different vibe I guess?
But this is very intriguing.

Generally speaking the results you guys have posted just over the last year have vastly improved in quality, it's a bit insane. I need to get into this, even if it's just to cure my curiosity.


----------



## raidergale

richiebee said:


> Working with covers in the "voice replacement" cycle is completely different from creating a song from scratch. I'm not sure what the point of the voice replacement thing is to be honest. You're NOT going to get Solaria to sing better than Adele, so stealing Adele's backing track, and her vocal characteristics, and applying them to Solaria. Why would you do that?


I think it's mostly a background difference. I've been in the vocal synth sphere for over 13 years now, and back then with Vocaloid I always enjoyed trying to cover songs, but it always sounded really artificial even when trying to match pitch perfectly (and even then, matching pitch was extremely hard! You couldn't even draw the pitchline directly on the notes, it was as if SynthV only offered pitch editing with the pitch parameter on the bottom).
With SynthV AI voices you can get a really high standard of realism, and matching pitch with the original performance can give you really good results and also highlight how close to human the voices are. I have absolutely no idea how to compose a song, it's not my background, so I'm a bit of a fish out of water in this forum 

So I end up using scripts because they enhance what I already knew how to do, covers. And it also can provide a good learning experience on how professional singers sing, so should the need ever arise I learned some extra tricks to manually draw pitchlines without using scripts


----------



## zinct

richiebee said:


> Working with covers in the "voice replacement" cycle is completely different from creating a song from scratch. I'm not sure what the point of the voice replacement thing is to be honest. You're NOT going to get Solaria to sing better than Adele, so stealing Adele's backing track, and her vocal characteristics, and applying them to Solaria. Why would you do that?
> 
> Anyway, about songwriting... I do all my vocal line songwriting inside Synth-V. I'm not very good at writing lyrics, so mostly, I work with people who are much better at it than I am. I am trying to improve though!
> 
> A track:
> 
> View attachment whenthatdaycomes-221218.mp3
> 
> 
> So, in this track above, I started with a lyric and nothing else. I had a basic form for the piano part, and the entire vocal melody and structure done in about half an hour. In order to do so, it was very important not to worry about the minutiae. Choose a singer, give them a character, and LET THEM DO THE WORK. The only thing, other than the basic note and lyric input that you should be concerned with, is significant dynamic changes. These Synth-V voicepacks are insanely good, and you can, with all confidence leave the singer to do the phrasing and note transitions as they have already been programmed to do. When you've finished your song you can work on making improvements where you need to. For my part, these are minimal. The vocal in the example above has not had much work done from simple quantized blobs on the Synth-V piano roll. Now that all that work is done, I'm going back through to make more dramatic changes in dynamics and maybe make some subtle timing changes. In terms of pitch, I don't think I need to do anything. I feel like the backing needs more work than the vocal part to be honest.
> 
> Working with Synth-V for me is pretty much like my experience working with real singers, except that I have access to it 24/7. I've spent more on singing sessions to get songs (mostly) where I envisioned them to be when I wrote them.
> 
> I'll also say that so far my experience has been that the female voices have a more human expression and musical sense of timing than the male ones. When you write things on a quantized grid, the females seem to do a better job of taking notes off the grid in a musical way. That said, they're all just great. It's a massive leap forward to what we've been doing in the past.


I totally agree with the other comments here. It's a beautiful track and the vocal is exceptional. Great work @richiebee 

I'm also curious to know whether this is Natalie?


----------



## zinct

Denkii said:


> Thank you so much!
> 
> I don't know what it is but Asterian (and Kevin) often seem to sound more auto-tuned by default compared to something like Solaria or Natalie.
> I don't hate it...it's just a very different vibe I guess?
> But this is very intriguing.
> 
> Generally speaking the results you guys have posted just over the last year have vastly improved in quality, it's a bit insane. I need to get into this, even if it's just to cure my curiosity.


I had a bit of an issue when I substituted Asterian for Kevin. I realised that I had Instant Mode on and when I turned it off VS decided to add maximum vibrato to all notes which made Asterian sound like he was gargling  Not sure if this is a bug as I have had this happen before. Anyway, it took quite a bit of manual fiddling to get Asterian back to a more normal voice so some of the "auto-tuned" sound that you are hearing might be due to my manual adjustments. I removed all vibrato and then added it back in only where I could detect it in the original song. Then I just added in some breaths where I could hear them in the original track.


----------



## SomeGuy

Markrs said:


> They did have a Bundle deal with Solaria and Asterian (which also had $10 off) with 25% off but that has now ended. Previously they haven’t had a sale before that bundle discount.


How did you find out about this sale? I don’t see any sort of newsletter option or anything on their homepage. Would love to know if this ever happens again.


----------



## Markrs

SomeGuy said:


> How did you find out about this sale? I don’t see any sort of newsletter option or anything on their homepage. Would love to know if this ever happens again.


It was mentioned on this thread, not sure if other people got an email about it as well.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

richiebee said:


> Working with covers in the "voice replacement" cycle is completely different from creating a song from scratch. I'm not sure what the point of the voice replacement thing is to be honest. You're NOT going to get Solaria to sing better than Adele, so stealing Adele's backing track, and her vocal characteristics, and applying them to Solaria. Why would you do that?



You can use a drastically different voice or (transposing) vocal range, and compose a new backing track.

You can change the lyrics (Weird Al style parody for example), transpose as much as you want without artifacts (so long as it's within the range of the Synth V voice of course), and edit the melody. 

If you have multiple samples from different vocalists with expressive variations in pitch that you like, you can make them sound like the same vocalist (as well as put them all in the same key and note range).


----------



## richiebee

J. H. Smith said:


> "A track" is a lovely ballad! It sticks in my mind after the first listen.
> 
> Who is the singer? Natalie, perhaps? Her lower notes in the track are full of character and subdued power and they counter her more tender, higher range in a most exciting way.


Thanks for the compliments folks. Honoured just to be in this sphere with you all.

...and for all those who asked, yes this is Natalie. My favourite.


----------



## rmak

richiebee said:


> Working with covers in the "voice replacement" cycle is completely different from creating a song from scratch. I'm not sure what the point of the voice replacement thing is to be honest. You're NOT going to get Solaria to sing better than Adele, so stealing Adele's backing track, and her vocal characteristics, and applying them to Solaria. Why would you do that?
> 
> Anyway, about songwriting... I do all my vocal line songwriting inside Synth-V. I'm not very good at writing lyrics, so mostly, I work with people who are much better at it than I am. I am trying to improve though!
> 
> A track:
> 
> View attachment whenthatdaycomes-221218.mp3
> 
> 
> So, in this track above, I started with a lyric and nothing else. I had a basic form for the piano part, and the entire vocal melody and structure done in about half an hour. In order to do so, it was very important not to worry about the minutiae. Choose a singer, give them a character, and LET THEM DO THE WORK. The only thing, other than the basic note and lyric input that you should be concerned with, is significant dynamic changes. These Synth-V voicepacks are insanely good, and you can, with all confidence leave the singer to do the phrasing and note transitions as they have already been programmed to do. When you've finished your song you can work on making improvements where you need to. For my part, these are minimal. The vocal in the example above has not had much work done from simple quantized blobs on the Synth-V piano roll. Now that all that work is done, I'm going back through to make more dramatic changes in dynamics and maybe make some subtle timing changes. In terms of pitch, I don't think I need to do anything. I feel like the backing needs more work than the vocal part to be honest.
> 
> Working with Synth-V for me is pretty much like my experience working with real singers, except that I have access to it 24/7. I've spent more on singing sessions to get songs (mostly) where I envisioned them to be when I wrote them.
> 
> I'll also say that so far my experience has been that the female voices have a more human expression and musical sense of timing than the male ones. When you write things on a quantized grid, the females seem to do a better job of taking notes off the grid in a musical way. That said, they're all just great. It's a massive leap forward to what we've been doing in the past.


Thanks for the info and sharing the track. Very helpful input. That sounds like a good approach to not worry too much about too much detail and programming when you are writing. When you working on the track, did you already have all the harmony and melody written or figured out. So the 30 minutes was solely for inputting the synth V midi information or did the time include you figuring out the melody?

When you are done polishing or programming the synth V vocal with the second run through it, would you be willing to share the results and the time you took to achieve it? Thanks again


----------



## Gaffable

SomeGuy said:


> How did you find out about this sale? I don’t see any sort of newsletter option or anything on their homepage. Would love to know if this ever happens again.


Eclipsed Sounds, the company that created Solaria and Asterian, communicates its sales via Twitter. The company’s Twitter handle is @eclipsedsounds


----------



## richiebee

rmak said:


> When you working on the track, did you already have all the harmony and melody written or figured out. So the 30 minutes was solely for inputting the synth V midi information or did the time include you figuring out the melody?


No, that was 30 minutes from downloading the lyrics after getting permission to use them. I had nothing, but I had already read the lyrics a few times (they were on a forum) before, so I already knew I wanted to do a ballad. I also knew I wanted to have strings, though that didn't factor in to the writing bit which for the purpose of getting the chords/feel/melody, I just used the piano and Synth-V. So what I did was came up with my piano chord progression first. I don't tend to follow preset theory for this, but just put chords that I think fit well together. I put these chords into EZ keys, and used that to add some rhythm and voicing to the piano part (I can hack away at a piano, but I wouldn't call myself a piano player, so once I've knocked out the chords, I leave the actual performance to EZ keys with some editing, mostly of dynamics, as required). Once I had something I thought flowed well, I went into Synth-V, looped four bars at a time, sung a melody in my head, then put it down on the piano roll, married the lyrics to it, then moved things around on the piano roll (all quantized to a 1/16th) until I was happy with the lyrical/melodic flow. It was an incredibly fast process. Once I had the basic form worked out, the arrangement for the rest of the song came together pretty quickly. And that's basically what I got done in half an hour. The rest (strings arrangement and other instruments, came later). 



rmak said:


> When you are done polishing or programming the synth V vocal with the second run through it, would you be willing to share the results and the time you took to achieve it? Thanks again


Once I've reached the point I've got to with this song, I tend to just listen to it a lot and hack away at bits and pieces. I have a lot of songs on the go, and they're all getting better the more I work on them, but I have a pretty short attention span MOST OF THE TIME, and tend not to work on a song, solid til its done. I say done, but to me, a song is never done. I can't remember whether it was a songwriter or a photographer (could have been an engineer actually) who said it, but about their work, they said a piece is never finished, just abandoned. That's pretty accurate in my view. I spend a lot of time overall to "finish" a track, but most of it is time wasted trying to figure out what I need to do to improve it.

I'd be happy to do a video some time showing a start to finish kind of a process for Synth-V, but my studio isn't really set up to do it, and last time I tried, the loopback for my audio interface messed up the reliability of my audio interface. Took me weeks to fix it so I'm a little reluctant to try it again. I might try to get the courage to give it another go though. :D


----------



## mothershout

richiebee said:


> These Synth-V voicepacks are insanely good, and you can, with all confidence leave the singer to do the phrasing and note transitions as they have already been programmed to do.


I would also agree strongly with this. I spend a fair amount of effort on the *timing* of the vocal notes (playing them as MIDI), and pronunciation generally needs fixing up, but as time goes on I spend less and less time playing with the vocal *parameters* in SynthV. The singers pretty much get it right, as long as I pick the right voice modes.


----------



## Rikk

Polkasound said:


> And not only that, but the time spent getting SynthV to mimic other singers is pure learning experience. The couple hours I spent trying to recreate a few bars from an existing song's vocal track gave me a lot of insight into SynthV's capabilities and idiosyncrasies.
> 
> What @richiebee wrote about letting the vocalist do the work is true. Each vocal pack is like hiring a different and very capable singer, and if you're happy with what that singer does, there's not much work left to do. But if you're in a situation where you prefer the tone of a certain vocal pack but not the way it sings, you have the capability to erase the defaults by drawing in your own style. You can wipe out a vibrato entirely and create your own. You can change note attacks, scoops, and tails. In other words, if Adele-style vocals is what you want, SynthV gives you the capability to mold a custom performance. This is where any experience recreating covers comes in handy.


Would be very interesting to hear details of your experience and what tricks you use to make the performance more human like, ie what things you change manually.


----------



## rmak

richiebee said:


> No, that was 30 minutes from downloading the lyrics after getting permission to use them. I had nothing, but I had already read the lyrics a few times (they were on a forum) before, so I already knew I wanted to do a ballad. I also knew I wanted to have strings, though that didn't factor in to the writing bit which for the purpose of getting the chords/feel/melody, I just used the piano and Synth-V. So what I did was came up with my piano chord progression first. I don't tend to follow preset theory for this, but just put chords that I think fit well together. I put these chords into EZ keys, and used that to add some rhythm and voicing to the piano part (I can hack away at a piano, but I wouldn't call myself a piano player, so once I've knocked out the chords, I leave the actual performance to EZ keys with some editing, mostly of dynamics, as required). Once I had something I thought flowed well, I went into Synth-V, looped four bars at a time, sung a melody in my head, then put it down on the piano roll, married the lyrics to it, then moved things around on the piano roll (all quantized to a 1/16th) until I was happy with the lyrical/melodic flow. It was an incredibly fast process. Once I had the basic form worked out, the arrangement for the rest of the song came together pretty quickly. And that's basically what I got done in half an hour. The rest (strings arrangement and other instruments, came later).
> 
> 
> Once I've reached the point I've got to with this song, I tend to just listen to it a lot and hack away at bits and pieces. I have a lot of songs on the go, and they're all getting better the more I work on them, but I have a pretty short attention span MOST OF THE TIME, and tend not to work on a song, solid til its done. I say done, but to me, a song is never done. I can't remember whether it was a songwriter or a photographer (could have been an engineer actually) who said it, but about their work, they said a piece is never finished, just abandoned. That's pretty accurate in my view. I spend a lot of time overall to "finish" a track, but most of it is time wasted trying to figure out what I need to do to improve it.
> 
> I'd be happy to do a video some time showing a start to finish kind of a process for Synth-V, but my studio isn't really set up to do it, and last time I tried, the loopback for my audio interface messed up the reliability of my audio interface. Took me weeks to fix it so I'm a little reluctant to try it again. I might try to get the courage to give it another go though. :D


I see, so it sounds like the ez keys midi packs and chord wheel make up part of your work flow. Having some way to generate harmony and melodic ideas is useful. You have a rough sketch and subsequently work on the song little bit by little. That sounds like a good process you have that works well. Start to finish vid would be nice, no pressure though.


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

Can anyone tell me roughly how long it takes to get a decent scratch vocal mix done if you already have a vocal melody you can import into the program? I'd like to be able to get something down quickly so I can build up the rest of the song around it, then come back later and polish the vocal performance.

It doesn't need to fool anybody, it just has to convey the general feel of the song.


----------



## rmak

Rikk said:


> Would be very interesting to hear details of your experience and what tricks you use to make the performance more human like, ie what things you change manually.


I second this =)


----------



## JyTy

I have to leave this forum lol - it hurts my wallet too much  just bought the Studio Pro and 3 voice packs… this stuff is insanely good!! I have been looking for something like this to do demo vocals for ages now! Super excited for this one!!

Hope they will release some better male voice packs but Natalie and Solaria are awesome!


----------



## Quasar

Polkasound said:


> The parameters I'm changing manually are not to make the performance "more human" but to make the performance more like the human I wish I had in my studio.
> 
> For the most part, the main thing any user of SynthV is going to need to do is iron out a few expected kinks, such as the pronunciation of a word, an unwieldy warble, or a digital artifact. Everything that comes after that is dependent on how you use SynthV. Some people might see each vocal pack as exactly what they want. I don't see vocal packs that way. I see them as blank canvases. (Well, more like partially-finished paintings to be more accurate.)
> 
> Depending on the vocalist pack you get, you may find, for example...
> 
> - Words than end with "m" sound thumpy, so you elongate the "m" and draw in a voicing fade.
> - A single high note sounds too closed for your personal taste, so you adjust the formant to open it up.
> - A word would come across with more feeling if you taper off the vibrato early and draw in a breathiness crescendo.
> - You want to adjust the timing of a scoop for effect.
> - A dipthong needs a little cursive flair
> 
> These are just a few examples of real-life issues that come up when recording vocalists. Normally I'd just give the vocalist some direction through their headphones and have them retake the part, but SynthV is powerful enough that such issues can be handled by a mouse.
> 
> Since my post the other day, I bought the pro version of the program and the Weina vocal pack. I'm still at the stage of learning as I go. I still gotta figure out how to get Weina to sing "tragedy" and "twist" without sounding foreign.


Are you working with the Instant Mode button turned on? IMHO this works astonishingly well, and am coming to the same conclusion as you and others who have posted here: The virtual singers already sound "human" enough, so the issue becomes one of tweaking inflections, timing, phrasing, emphasis etc. so that the "humanness" is in line with whatever particular lyrically expressive ideas you have in mind.

Playing the notes in via MIDI keyboard works fine, but requires subsequent fine tuning of the exact length and position. Diphthongs and particular consonants can sound "off", but the ability to tweak, a combination of using the parameters and altering the spellings of polysyllabic words seems endlessly flexible...

...I'm thinking that once sufficiently skilled you could produce, for instance, a Birmingham/Black Country British or Southern US accent if you really wanted to.

I'm looking at learning to use this in two phases: 1) Mastering the tools of the program itself, so that if I want to do something I don't have to hunt for the feature, but can more or less do it automatically without "how to?" questions, then 2) becoming better acquainted with what real singers technically do when singing expressively so that the proper function can be executed for its intended effect.

Also, has anyone found a feature for tapping or rolling "R" sounds?


----------



## Hadrondrift

I bought Solaria directly from Dreamtonics. This apparently does not give you the special Solaria-tailored English and Spanish dictionary and some scripts (phoneme viewer, ...) that are included in the Solaria package if you buy it directly from Eclipsed Sounds (twitter). Has anyone ever contacted Dreamtonics and/or Eclipsed Sounds about this?


----------



## Blancanegra

Quasar said:


> Also, has anyone found a feature for tapping or rolling "R" sounds?


I posted how I did the rolling R for Asterian but would work for any English voicebanks: 





Synthesizer V - Vocaloid haters might want to check this


will try on the next days then...




vi-control.net




Tell me if you need more help with this!


----------



## mothershout

Spaces Are Okay said:


> Can anyone tell me roughly how long it takes to get a decent scratch vocal mix done if you already have a vocal melody you can import into the program? I'd like to be able to get something down quickly so I can build up the rest of the song around it, then come back later and polish the vocal performance.
> 
> It doesn't need to fool anybody, it just has to convey the general feel of the song.


It can be very fast. If you have your melody as a MIDI file, import it (into either the standalone SynthV or into the plugin), let it clean up the notes, pick a vocalist and it'll sing everything as la-la-la. Probably takes a few minutes at most.

Adding the lyrics is slower, since you inevitably have to adjust some syllables, and of course it depends on how long your song is. If you are happy to use groups to duplicate repeated parts, that can save you time (though you then need to start creating and copying groups).


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

Just picked up the bundle with natalie.

First impressions is that the basic UI (navigation / note selection) is not immediately intuitive, and the small icons / type do not help any. However most of the actual editing of the singing is pretty straightforward and powerful - I really like the ability to adjust both the power and duration of each component of a word.

I will have to figure out how to deal with the excess vibrato. I adjusted it down to zero both in the main section and for individual words but it doesn't seem to have done anything. Guess I'm going to be forced to RTFM.


----------



## richiebee

Spaces Are Okay said:


> Just picked up the bundle with natalie.
> 
> First impressions is that the basic UI (navigation / note selection) is not immediately intuitive, and the small icons / type do not help any. However most of the actual editing of the singing is pretty straightforward and powerful - I really like the ability to adjust both the power and duration of each component of a word.
> 
> I will have to figure out how to deal with the excess vibrato. I adjusted it down to zero both in the main section and for individual words but it doesn't seem to have done anything. Guess I'm going to be forced to RTFM.


Sadly, there is no manual. My biggest gripe with Synth-V. There are a couple of ways to level off vibrato though. I've found the most effective, to come out of Instant Mode, and then with your notes selected, move the vibrato depth to 0, and it will flat line it. I don't think you can totally get rid of vibrato when you're in instant mode, but I could be wrong on that.


----------



## Quasar

Blancanegra said:


> I posted how I did the rolling R for Asterian but would work for any English voicebanks:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthesizer V - Vocaloid haters might want to check this
> 
> 
> will try on the next days then...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me if you need more help with this!


Brilliant! Thank you. I don't know how I missed all of that earlier in the thread. It works, though it's easier at the beginning of the word than at the end. Why "dx"? Lot of work, but I think I got it.


----------



## richiebee

richiebee said:


> I'd be happy to do a video some time showing a start to finish kind of a process for Synth-V, but my studio isn't really set up to do it, and last time I tried, the loopback for my audio interface messed up the reliability of my audio interface. Took me weeks to fix it so I'm a little reluctant to try it again. I might try to get the courage to give it another go though. :D


Might not be so far away from this as I thought. I spent the day figuring out my audio from loopback problem, and creating a workflow to record my composing sessions in OBS. I do believe I have eliminated the problem that took so long to solve last time. I actually created a decent verse/chorus from scratch and recorded it all, but I didn't follow my own advice of avoiding minutiae in the writing phase. I also came out of instant mode. I think both are bad for the purpose of showing an optimal workflow, and the quality of Synth-V out of the box as it were, so I'm not going to edit the footage I got. Now I know what I need to change for next time, I'll give it a go soon.


----------



## Lunatique

I've been working on a City Pop song that I intend to have Feng Yi be the vocalist, but the actual composition and arrangement is taking so damn long that I haven't even gotten to using SynthV in the song yet. 

BTW, it seems very few people like Feng Yi, while she might be my favorite in terms of vocal timbre. For male vocals, Mo Chen is my fave. Maybe it's because I listen to so much East Asian pop music (K-pop, C-pop) and their timbres cater to that market. 

For City Pop, Solaria could work too, but the song needs a softer voice so Feng Yi is perfect.


----------



## Pier-V

A while ago I said I was searching for a poem to arrange into a SATB quartet using Solaria and Asterian: I just finished arranging one, "A ballad of the two knights" by Sara Teasdale (1884-1933). This took a while since I've never done anything similiar before, but I definitely enjoyed the journey.

Everything is original except lyrics. I may still rework some of the parameter automation in the future, and maybe I'll even attempt a full orchestral version at some point, but for now this represents a good reference for how SynthV performs in a SATB context (hopefully).

I'm really satisfied with Asterian so far - he tends to sound a bit flat at times and his peculiar use of vibrato doesn't always merge well with Solaria, but overall he is a great voicebank imo and I had quite some fun writing and hearing his lines. Thanks for listening!

Lyrics:

Two knights rode forth at early dawn
A-seeking maids to wed,
Said one, "My lady must be fair,
With gold hair on her head."

Then spake the other knight-at-arms:
"I care not for her face,
But she I love must be a dove
For purity and grace."

And each knight blew upon his horn
And went his separate way,
And each knight found a lady-love
Before the fall of day.

But she was brown who should have had
The shining yellow hair,
I ween the knights forgot their words
Or else they ceased to care.

For he who wanted purity
Brought home a wanton wild,
And when each saw the other knight
I seen that each knight smiled.


----------



## Quasar

Pier-V said:


> A while ago I said I was searching for a poem to arrange into a SATB quartet using Solaria and Asterian: I just finished arranging one, "A ballad of the two knights" by Sara Teasdale (1884-1933). This took a while since I've never done anything similiar before, but I definitely enjoyed the journey.
> 
> Everything is original except lyrics. I may still rework some of the parameter automation in the future, and maybe I'll even attempt a full orchestral version at some point, but for now this represents a good reference for how SynthV performs in a SATB context (hopefully).
> 
> I'm really satisfied with Asterian so far - he tends to sound a bit flat at times and his peculiar use of vibrato doesn't always merge well with Solaria, but overall he is a great voicebank imo and I had quite some fun writing and hearing his lines. Thanks for listening!
> 
> Lyrics:
> 
> Two knights rode forth at early dawn
> A-seeking maids to wed,
> Said one, "My lady must be fair,
> With gold hair on her head."
> 
> Then spake the other knight-at-arms:
> "I care not for her face,
> But she I love must be a dove
> For purity and grace."
> 
> And each knight blew upon his horn
> And went his separate way,
> And each knight found a lady-love
> Before the fall of day.
> 
> But she was brown who should have had
> The shining yellow hair,
> I ween the knights forgot their words
> Or else they ceased to care.
> 
> For he who wanted purity
> Brought home a wanton wild,
> And when each saw the other knight
> I seen that each knight smiled.



Well done. Has a sort of 21st century madrigal feel about it.


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

After several hours I can see it's a really powerful tool hampered by lack of good documentation and some weird interface choices (like the clunky "grab the transport bar exactly" function and zoom in and out with the scroll wheel that doesn't always work). But it's really nice to finally hear vocals on a song I've had sitting around for years.

Just a little disappointed in natalie. I was hoping to get shirley manson, but the best I could do was stevie nicks.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Spaces Are Okay said:


> Just a little disappointed in natalie. I was hoping to get shirley manson, but the best I could do was stevie nicks.


You know, this really gives an urge to spank you, grab away your SynthV, and shove a pile of vocaloids in your hand - then we'll see who you gonna get


----------



## Quasar

Spaces Are Okay said:


> After several hours I can see it's a really powerful tool hampered by lack of good documentation and some weird interface choices...


Correct on both counts. The software is mind blowing, phenomenal. The UI is counterintuitive, klutzy and sometimes inconsistent. And I wish the piano roll area had a better designed grid with contrast and easier to read lines to mark the measures etc. I wish the transport bar would stay visible and in one place...

...I hope Dreamtonics is the kind of company that actively engages in updates and improvements for workflow, because the voice capabilities are way too cool for school. 

I don't have Natalie, and I'm not interested in mocking up real world singers, but it's amazing how many different voices you can get out of a single one. For instance, using tension and gender, I've been able to get Kevin to sound like one of those gruff-sounding old timey folk singers who just stepped out of a West Virginia coal mine or something.

My biggest areas of struggle thus far are diphthongs, and even single short vowels after certain consonants in some cases. I thought I read somewhere where you can go into phoneme mode rather than word mode and type phonetically, but if so, I haven't found out how to do that.
This is in the online quickstart guide, but my right clicks don't give me a menu that looks like this or offers the phoneme option:


----------



## David Cuny

Quasar said:


> I thought I read somewhere where you can go into phoneme mode rather than word mode and type phonetically, but if so, I haven't found out how to do that.


You can directly type the phonemes into the regular box by putting a "." (period) as the first character.

For example: *.f ow n eh t i k*


----------



## Blancanegra

Spaces Are Okay said:


> I will have to figure out how to deal with the excess vibrato. I adjusted it down to zero both in the main section and for individual words but it doesn't seem to have done anything. Guess I'm going to be forced to RTFM.


Try to reduce the expressiveness of the Pitch AI retakes or generate new takes to find what you need. Or split the note in two (right click over the note, first menu option).


----------



## odod

Blancanegra said:


> Try to reduce the expressiveness of the Pitch AI retakes or generate new takes to find what you need. Or split the note in two (right click over the note, first menu option).


You are of the best tuner around, can you kindly share the setting with Solaria and Kevin? Thanks in advance


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

Quasar said:


> Correct on both counts. The software is mind blowing, phenomenal. The UI is counterintuitive, klutzy and sometimes inconsistent. And I wish the piano roll area had a better designed grid with contrast and easier to read lines to mark the measures etc. I wish the transport bar would stay visible and in one place...
> 
> ...I hope Dreamtonics is the kind of company that actively engages in updates and improvements for workflow, because the voice capabilities are way too cool for school.
> 
> I don't have Natalie, and I'm not interested in mocking up real world singers, but it's amazing how many different voices you can get out of a single one. For instance, using tension and gender, I've been able to get Kevin to sound like one of those gruff-sounding old timey folk singers who just stepped out of a West Virginia coal mine or something.


Not trying to do covers, but for the song I am putting this on I always heard a gabage-esque delivery with a breathy, subtle growling tone to it. You might call it a low vocal fry. I guess it's either something they didn't bother to model in software or they didn't capture that type of performance in order to be able to model it. Maybe a voice pack in the future will have something like that. In the meantime I'll try a bunch of different plugins to see if I can add in a bit of what I want to hear.

As far as the UI, it strikes me as something done by someone who has spent thousands of hours building the program and knows it inside and out. They know what it can do and how to do it because they built it, but they don't appreciate that new users don't have the experience and have to deal with a bunch of other things. Most people don't have the time or knowledge of how the program works to get as familiar with the program as the people who made it are.


----------



## Tremendouz

Just bought SynthV Studio Pro yesterday and wanted to test the included Mai AI a little. Just using instant mode cause I don't know what I'm doing.


----------



## KristianDecorte

Denkii said:


> @raidergale ANY chance that you are working on an Asterian remake of Disturbed's version of the sound of silence?


Hi, I'm following this thread from the beginning. I just make music as a hobby, but found this a challenge. Maybe it could be done better, the tuning (which was done by hand and auto pitch tuning, not Praat), the mix... But I just wanted to share the results with you to show the possibilties of Asterian, the vocal modes, and the use of synth V in general. A big thank you to all of you that posted great songs, where I learned a lot from. Enjoy, and a happy new year.

View attachment Asterian - The Sound of Silence.mp3


----------



## Tremendouz

KristianDecorte said:


> Hi, I'm following this thread from the beginning. I just make music as a hobby, but found this a challenge. Maybe it could be done better, the tuning (which was done by hand and auto pitch tuning, not Praat), the mix... But I just wanted to share the results with you to show the possibilties of Asterian, the vocal modes, and the use of synth V in general. A big thank you to all of you that posted great songs, where I learned a lot from. Enjoy, and a happy new year.
> 
> View attachment Asterian - The Sound of Silence.mp3


Well I think I know what I'll be buying next. Although, I feel like the vocals are way too buried here so it's hard to hear what's going on


----------



## Denkii

KristianDecorte said:


> Hi, I'm following this thread from the beginning. I just make music as a hobby, but found this a challenge. Maybe it could be done better, the tuning (which was done by hand and auto pitch tuning, not Praat), the mix... But I just wanted to share the results with you to show the possibilties of Asterian, the vocal modes, and the use of synth V in general. A big thank you to all of you that posted great songs, where I learned a lot from. Enjoy, and a happy new year.
> 
> View attachment Asterian - The Sound of Silence.mp3


AWESOME!
Thanks for picking up the challenge :D

I actually love how he struggles at the top.
A lot of noise/artefacting going on with this guy, eh?
I wonder how @zinct was able to get him to sound so clean earlier, maybe he would be willing to share some insight?

Very fascinating stuff...I already picked up synth v in the meantime and I am still exploring. Enjoying it a lot.


----------



## Quasar

David Cuny said:


> You can directly type the phonemes into the regular box by putting a "." (period) as the first character.
> 
> For example: *.f ow n eh t i k*


Thank you!


----------



## Braveheart

So I’m looking at getting the Studio version at the reduced sale price + coupon at the other website, and maybe a singer available on sale at this website at the same time.

Any recommandation to complement, considering I am a singer and I plan to also buy Solaria which is not available there?


----------



## ibanez1

Braveheart said:


> So I’m looking at getting the Studio version at the reduced sale price + coupon at the other website, and maybe a singer available on sale at this website at the same time.
> 
> Any recommandation to complement, considering I am a singer and I plan to also buy Solaria which is not available there?


I bought studio pro + Kevin at dlsite since Kevin is one of the few workable male duet vocals to pair with solaria.


----------



## lastburai

Hi, 

I have been following the development of synthesizer V since before this thread was even created. I never created a topic about it or anything like that on here but every now and again I saw this thread pop up on this forum.

Initially when I was looking at synthesizer V I was looking at vocaloid as well. I downloaded the synthesizer V basic version 2 years ago with Elenor forte but in the end I never continued with it and so I got neither synthesizer V or vocaloid and instead hired a female singer at that time.

Recently I have a few songs that I want singing again but I have limited funds and with the latest developments of synthesizer V I decided to purchase as it seems a lot better than what it was before, especially with Solaria. 

After using it for a few days it is pretty good, Solaria with synthesizer V is a good combination. I can get some cool results.

These are the things I noticed from using it last few days

-To be able to snap to the grid in triplets use 1/6 Quarter in the SNAP panel

This applies to other voices as well not to just Solaria I think

To make Solaria breath before a word type - br 
To make Solaria exhale after a word type - hh

Some words that caused me trouble 

Tears the AI pronounces it as in share, fair, tears = t eh r z

I wanted tears as in fear, sheer, tears = t ih r z

Appear - the p is too pronounced so I lowered the strength of p to 20%

These features could be in Synthesizer V but I don't think they are.

-Things I would like which I don’t think is currently in the program is while synthesizer V is in my DAW that I can deactivate the auto scroll function as it currently auto scrolls while playing the track when I am making edits which is annoying. In Cubase there is a tab to turn on or off auto scroll in the key editor I want that function in synthesizer V more than anything else right now.

-To be able to Zoom in or out of the vertical plane in the piano roll editor I would like to be able to make the piano roll graphic more smaller.

-To be able to make tempo RAMP changes using a node base system like in Cubase currently tempo ramps are not possible only tempo changes are from what I can tell.


----------



## JyTy

richiebee said:


> Sadly, there is no manual. My biggest gripe with Synth-V. There are a couple of ways to level off vibrato though. I've found the most effective, to come out of Instant Mode, and then with your notes selected, move the vibrato depth to 0, and it will flat line it. I don't think you can totally get rid of vibrato when you're in instant mode, but I could be wrong on that.


What about this?



Synthesizer V User Manual



+ I also found a while list of video tutorials on YouTube on all the functionality + an entire make a song tutorial:


Didn’t went through everything yet though so not sure about the quality…


----------



## David Cuny

JyTy said:


> What about this?
> 
> 
> 
> Synthesizer V User Manual


I take it you haven't read the entire thread? 

This is the manual for the old version of the program. Many things in the program no longer function the same way.



> + I also found a while list of video tutorials on YouTube on all the functionality + an entire make a song tutorial:


This is - as far as I know - the only documentation on the current version of the program.

Unfortunately, like with the old manual, many new features have been added to since these videos were created, with no documentation on how to use them. Rather, the features just appear in a new release with little or no explanation on their usage.


----------



## Chungus

Here's a silly thought. What're your guesses as to what the new male voice is going to be called? I'm thinking Rickie. It sounds like a Rickie.


----------



## DoubleTap

Chungus said:


> Here's a silly thought. What're your guesses as to what the new male voice is going to be called? I'm thinking Rickie. It sounds like a Rickie.



Are you thinking maybe like Ricky Nelson?


----------



## Chungus

DoubleTap said:


> Are you thinking maybe like Ricky Nelson?


Haha! The video didn't auto-play when I clicked on that. Begone deceiver, you have no power over me!


----------



## Vlzmusic

Chungus said:


> Here's a silly thought. What're your guesses as to what the new male voice is going to be called? I'm thinking Rickie. It sounds like a Rickie.


I vote for Dave.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Vlzmusic said:


> I vote for Dave.


Rocky McRockrock?









Boaty McBoatface: What You Get When You Let the Internet Decide (Published 2016)


A proposal by a British agency to let the Internet name a research ship is the latest in a trend of web users having some fun with public polls.




www.nytimes.com





Or maybe Rocky McRockhead....


----------



## JyTy

David Cuny said:


> I take it you haven't read the entire thread?
> 
> This is the manual for the old version of the program. Many things in the program no longer function the same way.
> 
> 
> This is - as far as I know - the only documentation on the current version of the program.
> 
> Unfortunately, like with the old manual, many new features have been added to since these videos were created, with no documentation on how to use them. Rather, the features just appear in a new release with little or no explanation on their usage.


Haha no not the entire thread no, but I try to keep up 😀 thnx for bringing me up to speed on the manual drama!


----------



## zinct

Denkii said:


> AWESOME!
> Thanks for picking up the challenge :D
> 
> I actually love how he struggles at the top.
> A lot of noise/artefacting going on with this guy, eh?
> I wonder how @zinct was able to get him to sound so clean earlier, maybe he would be willing to share some insight?
> 
> Very fascinating stuff...I already picked up synth v in the meantime and I am still exploring. Enjoying it a lot.


In my intro I had him set to 95% gentle mode, otherwise all default in SynthV. I was also using some mild doubling in my DAW to give him a bit more presence (I would normally use separate real takes for doubling voices, but this was a quick demo). I did wonder how Asterian would cope with the higher parts later in the song. Which modes did you use in your full version @KristianDecorte ?


----------



## Denkii

I gave it a shot as well... the transitions between different voice modes are a bit jarring - I didn't want to fiddle any more for today. Maybe another time.

Edit: The mixdown was way worse than inside the daw. I fiddled some more and reuploaded.


----------



## KristianDecorte

Tremendouz said:


> Well I think I know what I'll be buying next. Although, I feel like the vocals are way too buried here so it's hard to hear what's going on


Hi Tremendouz, I will post my svp project so you can see it yourself what is going on. When you have Asterian, you can hear it to.



Denkii said:


> AWESOME!
> Thanks for picking up the challenge :D
> 
> I actually love how he struggles at the top.
> A lot of noise/artefacting going on with this guy, eh?
> I wonder how @zinct was able to get him to sound so clean earlier, maybe he would be willing to share some insight?
> 
> Very fascinating stuff...I already picked up synth v in the meantime and I am still exploring. Enjoying it a lot.


Hi Denkii, I added 2 exciters on 2 different frequencies in the mix to not make him sound too clean.
I modified the sound of his voice with gender on -0,275 and tone shift on -0.300.
But as I said before, I'm not a mixing engineer. So, I'm sure it could be done a lot better.
I only wanted to take the challange to see if it was even possible to make him sing so high and loud. Or the see if his voice could handle that genre.



zinct said:


> In my intro I had him set to 95% gentle mode, otherwise all default in SynthV. I was also using some mild doubling in my DAW to give him a bit more presence (I would normally use separate real takes for doubling voices, but this was a quick demo). I did wonder how Asterian would cope with the higher parts later in the song. Which modes did you use in your full version @KristianDecorte ?


Hi zinct, thanks for sharing this. I will share my svp file, so you can see the mix of vocal modes I used in the 5 parts of the song.



Denkii said:


> I gave it a shot as well... the transitions between different voice modes are a bit jarring - I didn't want to fiddle any more for today. Maybe another time.
> 
> Edit: The mixdown was way worse than inside the daw. I fiddled some more and reuploaded.


I'm glad you gave it a shot as well! Great job! It should be possible to automate the parameters of the vocal modes the make transitions more fluid. But on the otherhand, the transition of the 1st and 2nd part of the original song is also very sudden. 

I also have 2 questions for you:

1) Did you use the Auto-Process "automatic pitch tuning" function? It seems like the pitch is too perfect and I also hear always the same vibrato. By default, Asterians vibrato is way more than this. So, I modified the long notes with the "customized style" of the auto pitch tuning.

2) How did you do the screaming parts? Sounds really good! I used the RV Growl script for that. I suppose you used this to? I found it hard to find good parameters. I set the base frequency on 65, pitch depth on 0,35 and the random phase on 0,2.


----------



## patekswiss

Denkii said:


> I gave it a shot as well... the transitions between different voice modes are a bit jarring - I didn't want to fiddle any more for today. Maybe another time.
> 
> Edit: The mixdown was way worse than inside the daw. I fiddled some more and reuploaded.


I think its a bit over the top but ... it really shows the potential of this for achieving some funk and bizarre vibes by taking advantage of its realism yet strangeness.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

"ASTERIAN customers will now be able to find additional bonus files through their product download links.

...

Two new dictionaries that facilitate usage of ASTERIAN and SOLARIA in two additional languages: German and Italian (using English phonetics) - these were created programmatically and so will not be perfect in every circumstance, but should be a good base to build off of for non-supported language usage in these two languages.

Usage reference files for ASTERIAN's 5 pre-release demo songs, with versions optimized for both Synthesizer V Studio Basic and Synthesizer V Studio Pro

Users who purchased SOLARIA from the Eclipsed Sounds store will also be able to find the new dictionaries in their product download, as well as an additional reference file."









End Of Year Survey + ASTERIAN Bonus Files


Eclipsed Sounds Newsletter #2 - December 31st, 2022



shoutout.wix.com


----------



## Denkii

KristianDecorte said:


> I also have 2 questions for you:
> 
> 1) Did you use the Auto-Process "automatic pitch tuning" function? It seems like the pitch is too perfect and I also hear always the same vibrato. By default, Asterians vibrato is way more than this. So, I modified the long notes with the "customized style" of the auto pitch tuning.
> 
> 2) How did you do the screaming parts? Sounds really good! I used the RV Growl script for that. I suppose you used this to? I found it hard to find good parameters. I set the base frequency on 65, pitch depth on 0,35 and the random phase on 0,2.


1) I literally just picked the software up yesterday and I have no idea what this is so I assume the answer is no? I used instant mode and fiddled around with everything until it was somewhere where I liked it. Sometimes I would turn instant mode off, then fiddle with stuff, then turn it back on. It seems as if the changes made outside of instant mode are still taken into account after turning it back on again.

2) uhhh... which ones? The backing screaming from 3:05-3:10 was already in the song. The few bits around that where Asterian gets a bit of a graspier voice, that is literally just playing around with some parameters like voicing, breathiness, compensate the volume loss with loudness etc.
I don't have any scripts yet. Should look into that I guess?


----------



## JP8080

Hi everyone,

I have been following this thread since about page 60, but only just joined as I got Synth V Pro, as well as Solaria, Natalie & Kevin for Christmas. 

I just wanted to introduce myself, as well as thank all of the people who have been kind enough to post up the project files of their work on this forum.

They will be invaluable to someone like me who is new to all of this and trying to learn how to use this truly amazing technology.

Maybe soon I might be able to finish all of the songs collecting dust on my hard drive, as I was not able to find a human who could sing them for me properly.

Happy New Year to you all.


----------



## ThomasS

*My First Four Synth V Tracks*

I got Synth V and four voices for Christmas, and have been learning it for about a week now. Here are my first attempts, which are surely not as good as what people here can do, but any advice would be appreciated. The first link plays three songs in sequence (just keep it playing) and the second is short trial trial to see if I could make a choir with harmony using all four voices.

_All the Things You Are / All the Way / Crazy_

_Blue Bayou_


----------



## Cyberic

ThomasS said:


> *My First Four Synth V Tracks*
> 
> I got Synth V and four voices for Christmas, and have been learning it for about a week now. Here are my first attempts, which are surely not as good as what people here can do, but any advice would be appreciated. The first link plays three songs in sequence (just keep it playing) and the second is short trial trial to see if I could make a choir with harmony using all four voices.
> 
> _All the Things You Are / All the Way / Crazy_
> 
> _Blue Bayou_


As I’ve commented over at the PG Music forum I think you’re doing well and have achieved much in a short time.

I also reckon you’ve done alright with Asterian on “Blue Bayou” because to me, and possibly only me, he frequently sounds like a higher range singer slowed down.


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

JP8080 said:


> Maybe soon I might be able to finish all of the songs collecting dust on my hard drive, as I was not able to find a human who could sing them for me properly.


I'm in a similar situation with a bunch of songs in need of vocals - especially female ones.

For the males ones I might pick up the new male voice pack if it's any good (the other two really aren't for me). I could record my own vocals, but there's always the furnace (or air conditioning) turning on, cars driving by, neighbors making noise, kids playing and screaming. And the computer noise once it ramps up. It will be much easier to just get down a midi melody, type in the lyrics, and get a scratch vocal down to I can hear what it all sounds like together. Then as I get better at tuning and the software improves I'll be able to make it better faster.


----------



## David Cuny

Spaces Are Okay said:


> I could record my own vocals, but there's always the furnace (or air conditioning) turning on, cars driving by, neighbors making noise, kids playing and screaming. And the computer noise once it ramps up.


Have a look at Clarity Vx as a tool for potentially removing ambient background sounds. I don't think it'll do anything for kids playing and screaming, though.


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

David Cuny said:


> Have a look at Clarity Vx as a tool for potentially removing ambient background sounds. I don't think it'll do anything for kids playing and screaming, though.


Unfortunately I'm going to be moving into a house where my studio space will be right next to the neighbor's driveway. And apparently they have kids too. So it looks like my own vocals are going to have to wait until I can buy a house a good distance from people and ambient noise.


----------



## Quasar

A 40 second snippet fiddling around with Solaria:


----------



## KristianDecorte

Denkii said:


> 1) I literally just picked the software up yesterday and I have no idea what this is so I assume the answer is no? I used instant mode and fiddled around with everything until it was somewhere where I liked it. Sometimes I would turn instant mode off, then fiddle with stuff, then turn it back on. It seems as if the changes made outside of instant mode are still taken into account after turning it back on again.


Hi Denkii, "Instant Mode" uses the "automatic pitch tuning" found under "Auto-Process". But when instant mode is turned on, automatic pitch tuning is turned grey. This means it always uses the same value, I think. That's why it is not possible to have completely control over the vibrato. 

When instant mode is turned off, you can use the automatic pitch tuning and the customized style, which has parameters to control expressiveness, vibrato and overshoot. 

Do not confuse automatic pitch tuning with "auto-tune". It's the opposite result! Automatic pitch tuning uses AI to make the pitch curve human.



Denkii said:


> 2) uhhh... which ones? The backing screaming from 3:05-3:10 was already in the song. The few bits around that where Asterian gets a bit of a graspier voice, that is literally just playing around with some parameters like voicing, breathiness, compensate the volume loss with loudness etc.
> I don't have any scripts yet. Should look into that I guess?


Ok, you did a great mix of Asterian! And the screaming was in the backing track. 

I tried to make him scream the whole 5th part. Which can only be simulated with a growl. It used to be in the "old" version of Synth V, but they left it away in the new version. In the "real voice" scripts from our friend @Hataori , you can find it. It's called "RV Growl". There's also a video on youtube which shows the use of it on a female voice.

If you have downloaded my svp file, you can zoom in on the 5th part and see what it does on the pitch curve.

Good luck!


----------



## odod

I am now learning how to bend the vocal (inflection) .. But I really need "Rock" female voice ..

View attachment Untitled.mp4


----------



## Braveheart

odod said:


> I am now learning how to bend the vocal (inflection) .. But I really need "Rock" female voice


try this: https://www.fiverr.com/categories/m...alists/female-singers?source=category_filters


----------



## odod

Braveheart said:


> try this: https://www.fiverr.com/categories/m...alists/female-singers?source=category_filters


i mean rock female voice bank


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

odod said:


> i mean rock female voice bank


Cong Zheng is the only one so far iirc.









Cong Zheng Voice Database - Dreamtonics Store


Synthesizer V AI Cong Zheng is a feminine Chinese AI voice database from Dreamtonics, designed to provide creators with bold and emotive synthesized vocals. A rock-oriented feminine vocalist, Cong Zheng’s vocals are made to capture the strong impression left by Chinese rock singers. She has a...




store.dreamtonics.com


----------



## odod

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Cong Zheng is the only one so far iirc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cong Zheng Voice Database - Dreamtonics Store
> 
> 
> Synthesizer V AI Cong Zheng is a feminine Chinese AI voice database from Dreamtonics, designed to provide creators with bold and emotive synthesized vocals. A rock-oriented feminine vocalist, Cong Zheng’s vocals are made to capture the strong impression left by Chinese rock singers. She has a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> store.dreamtonics.com


which ambitus is higher here? Solaria or Cong Zheng?


----------



## Markrs

@raidergale has done a track using Cong Zheng. Surface Pressure from Encanto.


----------



## Rob

I'm having all kinds of problems with SynthV recently, like it suddenly becoming silent then starting again then silent... then crashing. All is up to date


----------



## Quasar

Markrs said:


> @raidergale has done a track using Cong Zheng. Surface Pressure from Encanto.



If you can use the Chinese or Japanese voice banks for English lyrics, I'd like to get a sense of how that works, what's the same and what is different than when working with the English voices.


----------



## richiebee

Way back, I uploaded a partial demo of a folky song I've been working on called Sailor. Can't find it now. Anyway, I didn't have Asterian back then, and in fact, he wasn't even released when I was working on it, but I always had the feeling it would suit his voice from the demos. I've finally finished the composition portion of the song. I have some arrangement work to do especially in the drums, chord/bass checking and then mix and master, but I'm quite happy with how its sounding overall, so felt like a share was in order. So this is an original - lyrics by another forum buddy known as McNaughtonPark, music and all the rest of it by me. Lead vocals - Asterian, backing vocals Solaria, Mai and Natalie.

View attachment sailor.mp3


----------



## raidergale

Quasar said:


> If you can use the Chinese or Japanese voice banks for English lyrics, I'd like to get a sense of how that works, what's the same and what is different than when working with the English voices.


Cross language synthesis is inherently more accented than native voicebanks.
Cong Zheng is probably the least accented Chinese voice, but she still slips in her accent at times, especially with "r" in lower pitches. 

In general Chinese to English has less of an accent than Japanese to English, but in both cases the accent can get very thick, so if you're looking for a purely native sounding voicebank cross language doesn't really help. It might become indistinguishable from native in the future though, considering how much Cong Zheng improved compared to previous Chinese voices.


----------



## cnogradi

Hello fellow SynthV-ers, my daughter has caught the SynthV bug and as a result worked on her first piece here: . 

She originally tried to use Kevin but could not get it to sound right so she used Solaria. Please provide extensive criticism so that she can continue on her learning journey! So far she has enjoyed learning Rx10, Praat, SynthV, Reaper, Smart:Reverb, ProQ3, ProC2, ... and would really appreciate any thought you might have on how to do the following:
- use Kevin (he sounds too artificial)
- any pronunciation improvements since there are still a few rough spots

Thanks in advance and thanks for all the help this forum has already provided her!


----------



## richiebee

cnogradi said:


> Hello fellow SynthV-ers, my daughter has caught the SynthV bug and as a result worked on her first piece here: .
> 
> She originally tried to use Kevin but could not get it to sound right so she used Solaria. Please provide extensive criticism so that she can continue on her learning journey! So far she has enjoyed learning Rx10, Praat, SynthV, Reaper, Smart:Reverb, ProQ3, ProC2, ... and would really appreciate any thought you might have on how to do the following:
> - use Kevin (he sounds too artificial)
> - any pronunciation improvements since there are still a few rough spots
> 
> Thanks in advance and thanks for all the help this forum has already provided her!



Sounds great. I think the male voices (Kevin and Asterian) both suffer from sounding really square out of the box. When I have my next break in writing, I'm going to explore why this might be, and whether anything can be done about it by tweaking settings, rather than having to manually tweak individual notes. The female voices seem to do more to shape the transitions between pitches. I haven't analyzed this theory closely, but its the sense that I get having done stuff with both Kevin and Asterian. 

This sounds great with Solaria, though it is right at the bottom of her vocal range. It's fragile, and I think that's the intended vibe right? There are one or two places where the vocal rhythm sounds a little awkward to my ears, but the overall sound and rendition are really good.


----------



## Tremendouz

Asterian can sing anime openings surprisingly well haha, although with English accent. This is 100% out of the box instant mode with the "rough" voice mode, plus very basic mixing done in 5 minutes


----------



## Denkii

Tremendouz said:


> Asterian can sing anime openings surprisingly well haha, although with English accent. This is 100% out of the box instant mode with the "rough" voice mode, plus very basic mixing done in 5 minutes


I am certain you have already made a better version of this!

*runs off into the distance, singing laaa laa lalaaaa laaaaaa*

Looking forward to embracing all this cheese in 2023.


----------



## Hadrondrift

I've been doing some experiments with the English->German dictionary from Eclipsed Sounds that has recently become available. The results are as expected, not exactly "wunderbar". 

German is my native language and our ambitious singers all sound exactly like an English speaking person singing German, with the typical accent that is especially noticeable at the "r". Nevertheless, the lyrics are very well understandable. All in all, rather a little funny experiment than something you could use seriously.

The order of the performers: Natalie, Solaria, Kevin, Asterian.
View attachment SynthV_GER.mp3

"Der Mond ist aufgegangen"


----------



## Denkii

Jesus that's a strong accent


----------



## Juulu

I'm wondering how flexible these instruments are. Like if you wanted to, for example, make the singer sound like they come from some eastern ethnic group (like Bulgarian or Arabic singers)? Would that be possible or is the technology not there yet? Maybe you'd have to create a voice bank specific to those styles of singing. Also, could you make an entire choir from these vocalists, or would the system requirements be too high for that?


----------



## David Cuny

cnogradi said:


> She originally tried to use Kevin but could not get it to sound right so she used Solaria. Please provide extensive criticism so that she can continue on her learning journey! So far she has enjoyed learning Rx10, Praat, SynthV, Reaper, Smart:Reverb, ProQ3, ProC2, ... and would really appreciate any thought you might have on how to do the following:
> - use Kevin (he sounds too artificial)
> - any pronunciation improvements since there are still a few rough spots


I'm going to - perhaps unhelpfully - suggest that she perhaps write to the library's strengths.

There's a lot of pitch repetition going on here, and it makes the melody sound less like it's sung than it's being spoken. Even sung by a live person, the melody is going be robotic. With _SynthV_, it's doubly so.

I haven't heard the version by Kevin, but a basic step would be to make sure the melody is in a good range for the singer, rather than write a melody and expect the singer to sing it.

Similarly, the vocal should be high enough over the accompaniment so that it can be heard clearly. That's a basic step in arranging. Here, the accompaniment is stepping the vocal. Perhaps choosing something like a fingerpicked guitar would work better?

Add in dynamics - in addition to mostly being melodically flat, the song is emotionally flat. For example:

*and can understand me *the pitch doesn't rise with the emotions, but then:
*ah ah* ... but the notes that _do_ go up are just vocalizations

In terms of pronunciation:

*Somebody* should be */s ah m b ah d iy/*.
*innermost details someone* shouldn't run together. Perhaps add a breath as well?
*easily be converted *feels stiff, perhaps */iy z l iy/* (only two syllables) might help.
*with every * consider */eh v r iy/* as two syllables instead */eh v er iy/
different light* consider */d ih f r ih n t/* as two syllables instead of three

Hopefully there's something helpful there.


----------



## David Cuny

Juulu said:


> I'm wondering how flexible these instruments are. Like if you wanted to, for example, make the singer sound like they come from some eastern ethnic group (like Bulgarian or Arabic singers)? Would that be possible or is the technology not there yet? Maybe you'd have to create a voice bank specific to those styles of singing. Also, could you make an entire choir from these vocalists, or would the system requirements be too high for that?


Not as flexible as you'd like.

You can't really alter how a vowel sounds. So you only slightly edit make them sound less Chinese/Japanese/English with vowel substitution. But even there, you're just replacing one phoneme with another, not really make an English phoneme sound like an Arabic phoneme.

You _can_ make a choir from the vocalists. However, I'd suggest using additional tools such as vocal doubling to help get a "wider" sound, in addition to the normal tricks of altering their timbres by adjusting parameters within the program. One of the problems you'll get is that the timing will be identical, so vocal doublers help with that.

And something like Clone Ensemble can also help.


----------



## Braveheart

I'm a singer and I can't sing everything properly without some adjustments at some ranges. It's already great that those voices can mimmick part of it. Don't ask too much out of them.


----------



## YaniDee

128 pages later, this has piqued my interest (though I'm still a bit reluctant about AI, and haven't read all the posts)..
So to cut to the chase, can someone recommend a basic package (frankly, cheapest) with a pop/rock/smooth/legible english female vocalist that's easy to use?


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

YaniDee said:


> 128 pages later, this has piqued my interest (though I'm still a bit reluctant about AI, and haven't read all the posts)..
> So to cut to the chase, can someone recommend a basic package (frankly, cheapest) with a pop/rock/smooth/legible english female vocalist that's easy to use?


From my research before buying: Right now your choices are either Natalie or Solaria. All the other ones will have some sort of non-english tinge to them when they sing in english. If you want a slightly lower range, pick natalie. higher, pick solaria.

Solaria is about $10 more expensive. You can get solaria slightly cheaper if you're willing to go through the dlsite website, which is based in / focused on Japan afaik, so it can be a little funky to use.


----------



## richiebee

YaniDee said:


> 128 pages later, this has piqued my interest (though I'm still a bit reluctant about AI, and haven't read all the posts)..
> So to cut to the chase, can someone recommend a basic package (frankly, cheapest) with a pop/rock/smooth/legible english female vocalist that's easy to use?


Solaria is the most versatile and great for pop. Get with SynthV Pro as a package and save a bit.


----------



## David Cuny

YaniDee said:


> 128 pages later, this has piqued my interest (though I'm still a bit reluctant about AI, and haven't read all the posts)..
> So to cut to the chase, can someone recommend a basic package (frankly, cheapest) with a pop/rock/smooth/legible english female vocalist that's easy to use?


I know you can't read the entire thread, but... this question was _just asked on the prior page to your question_, with an answer on the top of the page your question is on. 

Listen to the demos and trust your ears. All the voices are "pop", but are targeted to different styles. None of them are really capable of hard-edged "rock" vocals.


----------



## mothershout

richiebee said:


> Way back, I uploaded a partial demo of a folky song I've been working on called Sailor…
> 
> View attachment sailor.mp3


I like that a lot  The guitarist in me would much prefer real guitars, but that’s all subjective. And I always like the sound of a Leslie speaker on an organ.

This confirms to me, though, that Asterian isn’t for me. That voice is too _theatrical _for my taste. Which is odd, because Solaria can sound very Broadway Show Singer, and that has been my go-to lead voice.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Spaces Are Okay said:


> From my research before buying: Right now your choices are either Natalie or Solaria. All the other ones will have some sort of non-english tinge to them when they sing in english. If you want a slightly lower range, pick natalie. higher, pick solaria.
> 
> Solaria is about $10 more expensive. You can get solaria slightly cheaper if you're willing to go through the dlsite website, which is based in / focused on Japan afaik, so it can be a little funky to use.


DLsite doesn't carry Solaria, does it? With the exception of Kevin, it looks like they only have native Japanese speakers (though Maki English AI was trained on her singing in English).






Synthesizer V Japanese English Works Alingual Search results | DLsite H Games


"DLsite H Games" is a download shop for H games and animations. You can immediately download and enjoy products you like! New items appear every day so you're sure to find something for you. Welcome to Japan's largest 2D content online retail site - DLsite！ - Synthesizer V Japanese English Works...




www.dlsite.com


----------



## Hadrondrift

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> DLsite doesn't carry Solaria, does it?


Yep, you can't get Solaria from DLsite. The only native English voice database you can buy there is Kevin. You can get Synthesizer V + Kevin from DLsite for about $85 using their 30% discount code.


----------



## richiebee

mothershout said:


> I like that a lot  The guitarist in me would much prefer real guitars, but that’s all subjective. And I always like the sound of a Leslie speaker on an organ.
> 
> This confirms to me, though, that Asterian isn’t for me. That voice is too _theatrical _for my taste. Which is odd, because Solaria can sound very Broadway Show Singer, and that has been my go-to lead voice.


Yeah as it is, you're right. I think with tweaks, Astrrian will do soul/r&b... hoping to prove it soon-ish.
I can't play the guitar any better than I can sing and I'm on this thread, so... 😀


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> DLsite doesn't carry Solaria, does it? With the exception of Kevin, it looks like they only have native Japanese speakers (though Maki English AI was trained on her singing in English).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthesizer V Japanese English Works Alingual Search results | DLsite H Games
> 
> 
> "DLsite H Games" is a download shop for H games and animations. You can immediately download and enjoy products you like! New items appear every day so you're sure to find something for you. Welcome to Japan's largest 2D content online retail site - DLsite！ - Synthesizer V Japanese English Works...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dlsite.com


You're probably right. I know you can get the program and one voice there - maybe I'm confusing them with eclipsed sounds, who also sells solaria on their site.


----------



## Edelweiss Records

I've jumped on the wagon as well after hearing some of the demos and examples in this thread. I picked up Synthesizer V and Anri and have been having a blast learning the software. I've been really liking Anri so far, though her voice might be a bit too sweet to fit with a lot of styles.

I wrote the below piece whilst I was learning the software and there's definitely still a few awkward moments. Anri has mostly been left default here with a little bit of mapping using the 'tension' and 'breathiness' sliders.



I think the feature I have been enjoying the most so far is the option to make the software do another 'take' to get a slightly different performance.


----------



## Tremendouz

Spaces Are Okay said:


> You're probably right. I know you can get the program and one voice there - maybe I'm confusing them with eclipsed sounds, who also sells solaria on their site.


You can also get just the program (SynthV Studio Pro) for around 45 euros (if the 30% off coupon for new accounts is still a thing) and then you can get Mai AI for free (Japanese female voice) as the owner of that.


----------



## BDT

David Cuny said:


> All the voices are "pop", but are targeted to different styles. None of them are really capable of hard-edged "rock" vocals.


BTW, this also applies to real (TM) singers: there are not many females who can really sing rock, and lots of those who can sing pop instead.


----------



## YaniDee

Edelweiss Records said:


> I've jumped on the wagon as well after hearing some of the demos and examples in this thread. I picked up Synthesizer V and Anri


I can't seem to find that voice..do you have a link?


----------



## Edelweiss Records

YaniDee said:


> I can't seem to find that voice..do you have a link?











Synthesizer V ANRI Voice Database (English) [Digital Download]


ANRI is a virtual singer for Synthesizer V Studio, produced by AUDIOLOGIE Co., Ltd. in association with Dreamtonics Co., Ltd. This product listing includes Synthesizer V ANRI’s English AI voice database as a digital download.




audiologie.us





You can find Anri above. She's currently the only voice made by Audiologie and released quite recently. I'm hoping they have more in the works.


----------



## David Cuny

Edelweiss Records said:


> You can find Anri above. She's currently the only voice made by Audiologie and released quite recently. I'm hoping they have more in the works.


Audiologie has confirmed they are working a new voice, to be released Q1 of 2023. No details, other than "the new singer is a perfect complement to ANRI".


----------



## monstamac

Is it possible to load a previous version of Solaria ?

I wrote this song using the 1.0 Lite and when I use the lastest 1.08 version of Solaria, its really different and I dont really want to go through the whole song redoing the vocal ?

Id like the version of Solaria that corresponds.


----------



## David Cuny

monstamac said:


> Is it possible to load a previous version of Solaria?
> 
> I wrote this song using the 1.0 Lite and when I use the lastest 1.08 version of Solaria, its really different and I dont really want to go through the whole song redoing the vocal ?


Yes, they are different products, so they can co-exist.


----------



## parapentep70

Tremendouz said:


> You can also get just the program (SynthV Studio Pro) for around 45 euros (if the 30% off coupon for new accounts is still a thing) and then you can get Mai AI for free (Japanese female voice) as the owner of that.


I am a fan of this thread and miss the important fact that *Mai AI is 100% FREE* (including license to use it in commercial projects) for owners of Synth V Studio Pro. Big thanks!! 

For anyone interested, it is scrolling down here: https://dreamtonics.com/en/synthesizerv/


----------



## monstamac

David Cuny said:


> Yes, they are different products, so they can co-exist.


Thanks, Is there a download link for older versions ? I tried looking back through the forum on search thinking Id seen it but didnt find the post.


----------



## David Cuny

monstamac said:


> Thanks, Is there a download link for older versions ? I tried looking back through the forum on search thinking Id seen it but didnt find the post.











Eclipsed Sounds | SOLARIA


Synthesizer V SOLARIA is a versatile and expressive English AI Singer.




www.eclipsedsounds.com





Click this button:






Or do what I did, and type *solaria lite download* into Google to find the link.


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

I have a cover request for people with asterian who enjoy doing covers:

Bawitdaba. In asterian's natural range. Please.


----------



## Quasar

parapentep70 said:


> I am a fan of this thread and miss the important fact that *Mai AI is 100% FREE* (including license to use it in commercial projects) for owners of Synth V Studio Pro. Big thanks!!
> 
> For anyone interested, it is scrolling down here: https://dreamtonics.com/en/synthesizerv/


This was new to me, and I have Pro, so thanks much. After playing with it for just a wee bit, I'm concluding that there is enough phonic flexibility in SynthV to effectively use a Japanese voice bank in English, and least in certain use cases, so now I'm going to explore the non-English male voices to see if I can find one that I like better than either Kevin (which I have) or Asterian (which I do not), neither of which wow me nearly as much as the female voices.


----------



## shotsi673

richiebee said:


> Way back, I uploaded a partial demo of a folky song I've been working on called Sailor. Can't find it now. Anyway, I didn't have Asterian back then, and in fact, he wasn't even released when I was working on it, but I always had the feeling it would suit his voice from the demos. I've finally finished the composition portion of the song. I have some arrangement work to do especially in the drums, chord/bass checking and then mix and master, but I'm quite happy with how its sounding overall, so felt like a share was in order. So this is an original - lyrics by another forum buddy known as McNaughtonPark, music and all the rest of it by me. Lead vocals - Asterian, backing vocals Solaria, Mai and Natalie.
> 
> View attachment sailor.mp3


That's fantastic. Do you use a DAW or is it all mocked up in Synth V?


----------



## richiebee

shotsi673 said:


> That's fantastic. Do you use a DAW or is it all mocked up in Synth V?


Thank you. I use a DAW (Cubase) to do the backing, and Synth-V as a VST instrument. I don't bounce the Synth-V track to audio before final export (mostly because my tracks are never finished... there is always a chance for more tweaking) - it just stays within the Synth-V VSTi. Also worth mentioning is that the Synth-V track here was using auto mode - no manual tweaking of the pitch data - just timing changes of a few individual syllables using the slider controls.


----------



## monstamac

Spaces Are Okay said:


> I have a cover request for people with asterian who enjoy doing covers:
> 
> Bawitdaba. In asterian's natural range. Please.





David Cuny said:


> Eclipsed Sounds | SOLARIA
> 
> 
> Synthesizer V SOLARIA is a versatile and expressive English AI Singer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eclipsedsounds.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click this button:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or do what I did, and type *solaria lite download* into Google to find the link.


Sorry, I should have been clearer. I already have 1.0 lite and 1.08 full and can find that easily. I meant is there somewhere to download the previous versions of the paid for versions ie Solaria Full 1.0 I just wanted to run my song through the corresponding v1.0 Paid Solaria to the lite one. Im sure I read in these forums that Dreamtonics were putting download links for the older versions for this reason. I used Lite 1.0 but have full v1.08

Edit : the download link for 1.06 is here https://auth.dreamtonics.com/store/download .

Nope still the same. I guess it needs an earlier version of SynthPro. I shall just leave it as it was.


----------



## odod

Anyone knows how to edit falsetto to become a real high note belting instead? 
Thanks in advance


----------



## Lord Daknight

Are there any male voices available for this which could work for a Power Metal vocalist like this?


----------



## David Cuny

monstamac said:


> Nope still the same. I guess it needs an earlier version of SynthPro. I shall just leave it as it was.


The only downloadable voices I can find are here, and they don't include prior voices:






index - powered by h5ai v0.29.2 (https://larsjung.de/h5ai/)


index - powered by h5ai v0.29.2 (https://larsjung.de/h5ai/)




resource.dreamtonics.com






However, there's an option in the voice dropdown to run a prior version of the voice:






So if it was previously installed on your machine, you might have access to it here.


----------



## David Cuny

odod said:


> Anyone knows how to edit falsetto to become a real high note belting instead?
> Thanks in advance


In the *Voice* panel, under *Parameters*, there is a *Tone Shift* option. This tells _SynthV_ to apply the settings of a higher/lower pitch voice.

Since changing it here would apply globally (or the to the current group), modify it in the *Parameter* timeline instead:


----------



## monstamac

David Cuny said:


> The only downloadable voices I can find are here, and they don't include prior voices:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> index - powered by h5ai v0.29.2 (https://larsjung.de/h5ai/)
> 
> 
> index - powered by h5ai v0.29.2 (https://larsjung.de/h5ai/)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> resource.dreamtonics.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, there's an option in the voice dropdown to run a prior version of the voice:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if it was previously installed on your machine, you might have access to it here.


thanks. evidently you can get older ones from the makers, so I have written to them to see.


----------



## David Cuny

Lord Daknight said:


> Are there any male voices available for this which could work for a Power Metal vocalist like this?


Not out of the box.

I'm not a metal singer, so I've only got a passing familiarity with the vocal techniques. But by nature, they push the voice in extreme directions - even if the method for achieving the result isn't what it initially appears to be.

The "metal scream" effect is a glottal effect, and you don't have direct access to that in _SynthV_. There are scripts that are available that will let you get something similar, but it's not _quite_ the same thing.

The other thing is the broad, operatic vocal. Since the vocalists sampled for _SynthV_ are more "pop" than "opera", you'll again have to modify the voice with Vibrato, Gender and Tone Shift. You'd be doing a lot of low-level editing to get the results.

Even then it would be sung by a voice intended for "pop" style music - not a great match.


----------



## chemie262

Hadrondrift said:


> I've been doing some experiments with the English->German dictionary from Eclipsed Sounds that has recently become available. The results are as expected, not exactly "wunderbar".
> 
> German is my native language and our ambitious singers all sound exactly like an English speaking person singing German, with the typical accent that is especially noticeable at the "r". Nevertheless, the lyrics are very well understandable. All in all, rather a little funny experiment than something you could use seriously.
> 
> The order of the performers: Natalie, Solaria, Kevin, Asterian.
> View attachment SynthV_GER.mp3
> 
> "Der Mond ist aufgegangen"


How did you install these bonus files? I could not get them to work.


----------



## bosone

A test with Asterian, to understand how it works with metal. 

 

The song is a version of "misty mountains cold" from the movie "The Hobbit". 
Original is here:  


I used Amplitube, Modo Drums (metal), komplete orchestral sections (strings, brass, violin), Soundiron Requiem Light 3.0 backing choir and a Sonokinetic Maximo patch (woodwinds)

i consider the arrangement as finished, need mixing, sound refinement and mastering 

any comments welcome!


----------



## Hadrondrift

chemie262 said:


> How did you install these bonus files? I could not get them to work.


Windows:
I created a new folder named "english-arpabet" in the folder
C:\Users\<Username>\Documents\Dreamtonics\Synthesizer V Studio\dicts

Then I moved the Eclipsed Sounds language file
"Voice Database Extras - Eclipsed Sounds\Dictionaries (Basic Compatible)\*ENG-GER1.0_EclipsedSounds.json"*
into this new "english-arpabet" folder.

Result: There is a file "ENG-GER1.0_EclipsedSounds.json" inside the folder
C:\Users\<Username>\Documents\Dreamtonics\Synthesizer V Studio\dicts\english-arpabet"

If you now activate the Dictionary panel in Synthesizer V, you can select the ENG-GER dictionary and Synthesizer V will from now on look there first when it converts words into phonemes.





Note: I have removed the dictionary in the meantime, because it slows down every start of Synthesizer V extremely.


----------



## Quasar

bosone said:


> A test with Asterian, to understand how it works with metal.
> 
> 
> 
> The song is a version of "misty mountains cold" from the movie "The Hobbit".
> Original is here:
> 
> 
> I used Amplitube, Modo Drums (metal), komplete orchestral sections (strings, brass, violin), Soundiron Requiem Light 3.0 backing choir and a Sonokinetic Maximo patch (woodwinds)
> 
> i consider the arrangement as finished, need mixing, sound refinement and mastering
> 
> any comments welcome!



Nice job with the arrangement, I like this musically. It still (alas) doesn't sell me on Asterian, who doesn't sound as "alive" to me as the female voices, especially Solaria, but has a more pronounced artificial or uncanny valley effect.

I expect improvements in humanizing the bass/baritone regions of virtual male vocalists to come fast and furiously, but IMHO it's not quite there yet.


----------



## ScarletJerry

Polkasound said:


> Well here goes...
> 
> I wanted to take SynthV far outside the pop arena, aim for pure, clean, pretty vocals, and make it sound as realistic as possible to one girl laying down two vocal tracks. What you're hearing are two altered instances of Mai with several hours worth of tweaking on a note-by note level.
> 
> I have a little more work to do negating a slight foreign accent on some words (although it's a pretty sound which I might just leave as-is) but I'm extremely happy with the results. This program is an absolute beast.
> 
> I'm not planning on using SynthV to replace any lead vocalists in my Rolodex, but just for fun, I'm going to make one exception -- I decided I'm going to build on this song and have Mai (errr, uh, I mean "Ashley Radford") singing all over polka radio by Valentines Day.


That sounded great, Tom! You pretty much said what I've been saying about Synth V - it can sound good with the default tuning, but to make it sound much more realistic, you do have to invest a few hours. It's usually worth it though.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Vlzmusic

Polkasound said:


> Well here goes...
> 
> I wanted to take SynthV far outside the pop arena, aim for pure, clean, pretty vocals, and make it sound as realistic as possible to one girl laying down two vocal tracks. What you're hearing are two altered instances of Mai with several hours worth of tweaking on a note-by note level.
> 
> I have a little more work to do negating a slight foreign accent on some words (although it's a pretty sound which I might just leave as-is) but I'm extremely happy with the results. This program is an absolute beast.
> 
> I'm not planning on using SynthV to replace any lead vocalists in my Rolodex, but just for fun, I'm going to make one exception -- I decided I'm going to build on this song and have Mai (errr, uh, I mean "Ashley Radford") singing all over polka radio by Valentines Day.


The best we will ever hear from Mai


----------



## Lord Daknight

David Cuny said:


> Not out of the box.
> 
> I'm not a metal singer, so I've only got a passing familiarity with the vocal techniques. But by nature, they push the voice in extreme directions - even if the method for achieving the result isn't what it initially appears to be.
> 
> The "metal scream" effect is a glottal effect, and you don't have direct access to that in _SynthV_. There are scripts that are available that will let you get something similar, but it's not _quite_ the same thing.
> 
> The other thing is the broad, operatic vocal. Since the vocalists sampled for _SynthV_ are more "pop" than "opera", you'll again have to modify the voice with Vibrato, Gender and Tone Shift. You'd be doing a lot of low-level editing to get the results.
> 
> Even then it would be sung by a voice intended for "pop" style music - not a great match.


They totally gotta add a fry scream and overtone slider, I'd love to have my Koharu Rikka sound like Agnete Kjolsrud


----------



## odod

David Cuny said:


> In the *Voice* panel, under *Parameters*, there is a *Tone Shift* option. This tells _SynthV_ to apply the settings of a higher/lower pitch voice.
> 
> Since changing it here would apply globally (or the to the current group), modify it in the *Parameter* timeline instead:


Thank you so much David, but that does not really work in my case :( .. however these are the settings that worked for me

Using the Solid and Open vocal modes
Increasing the Tension
Reducing the Breathiness
Adjusting the Gender slider slightly
So much for the "powerful" gimmick .. when the voicebank can not even belt properly
Thanks to Claire that helped me with the case.


----------



## YaniDee

Polkasound said:


> I wanted to take SynthV far outside the pop arena, aim for pure, clean, pretty vocals, and make it sound as realistic as possible to one girl laying down two vocal tracks.


Sounds quite good! Someone should develop a yodeling v-i voice..imagine how fast it could go!


----------



## Tremendouz

Vlzmusic said:


> The best we will ever hear from Mai


Am I misunderstanding or are you implying Mai isn't good? I personally love her voice especially with the soft slider turned up to ~50%.
I went back to the earlier example I posted and tried mixing it a bit better now that I'm back home to showcase her better (backing track is from the original song, not made by me).

This is still Instant mode with minimal tweaks, I mainly just automated the loudness parameter a bit between the verse and the chorus.

EDIT: the original for reference. I didn't really try to match the timbre


----------



## Lunatique

A thought just crossed my mind, and I'm not sure if it's ever been brought up before here. I was thinking how the users of SynthV here are different from many of Dreamtonics' customer base, as most tend to be higher level musicians/composers and not hobbyists making anime song covers. It would seem like a good idea to let Dreamtonics know about the existence of this thread, as it's got a high concentration of advanced and professional musicians whose feedback the company might appreciate. And if they could monitor this thread, they might get a lot of nice ideas and feedback that would help them with the future development of SynthV.


----------



## Lunatique

I just took it upon myself to post a thread in the official forum to let them know this thread exists, and that it would be great if the developer could take a look and monitor it: https://forum.synthesizerv.com/t/topic/7322


----------



## David Cuny

Lunatique said:


> I was thinking how the users of SynthV here are different from many of Dreamtonics' customer base, as most tend to be higher level musicians/composers and not hobbyists making anime song covers.


If you look through the Dreamtonics site, you'll see that they're pitching _SynthV_ to producers of original material. 

With the wider use of _Vocaloids_ on commercial productions in Japan and China, I suspect there's perhaps more acceptance of synthetic vocals in that market than in Western countries.


----------



## odod

David Cuny said:


> If you look through the Dreamtonics site, you'll see that they're pitching _SynthV_ to producers of original material.
> 
> With the wider use of _Vocaloids_ on commercial productions in Japan and China, I suspect there's perhaps more acceptance of synthetic vocals in that market than in Western countries.


Agree, especially Japan I guess


----------



## BDT

Polkasound said:


> ... it doesn't know where to breathe. It doesn't know where in the lyrics a singer would be running out of air ...


That's trivial to solve: sing along with your song, and whenever YOU need to breath, so does your virtual singer. The result is more natural than any algorithm could ever be.


----------



## odod

Finally i've found the perfect setting for Xuan Yu .. Have no regret after all, He is such powerful voice and very useful. Here's the duet with Kevin, also found his best setting! So happy today ..


View attachment Xuan Yu and Kevin_MixDown.mp3


----------



## Lunatique

David Cuny said:


> If you look through the Dreamtonics site, you'll see that they're pitching _SynthV_ to producers of original material.
> 
> With the wider use of _Vocaloids_ on commercial productions in Japan and China, I suspect there's perhaps more acceptance of synthetic vocals in that market than in Western countries.


That may be true, but when I search YT for SynthV related content, it's still overwhelmingly hobbyist cover songs. Maybe that's just how it is with all musician products, since hobbyists will always outnumber professionals by a lot.


----------



## Tremendouz

Lunatique said:


> That may be true, but when I search YT for SynthV related content, it's still overwhelmingly hobbyist cover songs. Maybe that's just how it is with all musician products, since hobbyists will always outnumber professionals by a lot.


True, and also, it's more likely that the stuff you're seeing has SynthV in the title and as the main focus of the piece. If someone is using it for let's say backing vocals in a track and not mentioning it in the description, you're not going to find that video.


----------



## ThomasS

NEW DEMO I JUST MADE!

Using all four English voices (Solaria, Natalie, Kevin & Asterian) singing in a jazz choir style.

Let me know what you think. I've learned a lot in the past few days, and realize there is a lot under the hood of this program. This forum has helped me a lot.

_*A Nightingale Sang in Berkely Square*_

(https://iradeo.com/station/169493)


----------



## milford59

ThomasS said:


> NEW DEMO I JUST MADE!
> 
> Using all four English voices (Solaria, Natalie, Kevin & Asterian) singing in a jazz choir style.
> 
> Let me know what you think. I've learned a lot in the past few days, and realize there is a lot under the hood of this program. This forum has helped me a lot.
> 
> _*A Nightingale Sang in Berkely Square*_
> 
> (https://iradeo.com/station/169493)


I think its great - I would be really interested to hear a version with musical accompaniment as well... would you be prepared to export the MIDI from your project so that I can see how you have constructed the harmonies ?


----------



## Joe_D

It’s a well-known Manhattan Transfer arrangement, which was published decades ago:


----------



## ThomasS

milford59 said:


> would you be prepared to export the MIDI from your project so that I can see how you have constructed the harmonies ?


They're not my harmonies (I wish) - I just played a score by Gene Puerling. Because this style requires free tempo and a lot of rubato, I had to play it first in Cubase without a click, and then import the four tracks into Synth V and add the words. Here is the midi file I made.


----------



## milford59

ThomasS said:


> They're not my harmonies (I wish) - I just played a score by Gene Puerling. Because this style requires free tempo and a lot of rubato, I had to play it first in Cubase without a click, and then import the four tracks into Synth V and add the words. Here is the midi file I made.


Thank you very much Thomas - I will take a look - and learn, I am sure !


----------



## ThomasS

Joe_D said:


> It’s a well-known Manhattan Transfer arrangement, which was published decades ago:


Yes, Joe_D, it was arranged by Gene Puerling (of the Singers Unlimited) for the Manhattan Transfer. I've heard it sung (often terribly) by many choirs over the years, and I realize how hard it is to sing, with complex harmonies and key changes. So, as I am new to Synth V, I thought I would use it as an experiment to see how convincing it might be for the program to handle this kind of thing. I purposely played it slower and more relaxed than the Manhattan Transfer in order to test Synth V on long notes.

Personally, I think Synth V did great, but I am still learning how to use it. I need to work on better pronounciation in some places, and after listening to it I realize it needs breaths, which I won't bother to add now, since it was just a test.


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

for those who have used DL site, what is the exact procdure - I can't pay them directly but instead I have to buy points to use for purchase via paypal or some other service?


----------



## JP8080

Tremendouz said:


> Am I misunderstanding or are you implying Mai isn't good? I personally love her voice especially with the soft slider turned up to ~50%.
> I went back to the earlier example I posted and tried mixing it a bit better now that I'm back home to showcase her better (backing track is from the original song, not made by me).
> 
> This is still Instant mode with minimal tweaks, I mainly just automated the loudness parameter a bit between the verse and the chorus.
> 
> EDIT: the original for reference. I didn't really try to match the timbre



I think that sounds beautiful.


----------



## Arran

Spaces Are Okay said:


> for those who have used DL site, what is the exact procdure - I can't pay them directly but instead I have to buy points to use for purchase via paypal or some other service?


I paid direct using a credit card (American Express), I couldn't register my Visa Debit card though.


----------



## Hadrondrift

Spaces Are Okay said:


> I have to buy points to use for purchase via paypal


Yes, I bought points via PayPal at dl-pay.com and entered the codes at DLsite. Even if this seems somehow cumbersome and perhaps a little untrustworthy, it worked very well. Of course, you have to be a little careful what cards to buy so that not too much remains in the end. Well, unless you are interested in Japanese manga and the like.  
I still have a few Points worth 0,30 EUR left there. I consider that a tiny sacrifice for a big saving.


----------



## JimDiGritz

Just wanted to test out Asterian, so created this mockup of a Luther Vandross classic.

Despite playing with all the parameters, he seems to have quite a breathy voice at the higher registers. 



Also a quick cameo by Solaria at the end!!


----------



## parapentep70

Spaces Are Okay said:


> for those who have used DL site, what is the exact procdure - I can't pay them directly but instead I have to buy points to use for purchase via paypal or some other service?


I paid directly. I think it is one of these places where they charge you a small amount (like 0.01€) to make sure the card is valid, but not totally sure. If they did, they cancelled the small charge because I cannot see it now in my card accountancy. What I know is that I paid with a standard CREDIT Mastercard, without any issue. Then Mastercard added the small currency exchange fee (same as when I buy in USD).

Do not do as I did and try to get the 30% discount for first time buyers _*BEFORE *_you sign-in. If you sign-in without the code and later you try to get the discount, then it will be too late!


----------



## milford59

JimDiGritz said:


> Just wanted to test out Asterian, so created this mockup of a Luther Vandross classic.
> 
> Despite playing with all the parameters, he seems to have quite a breathy voice at the higher registers.
> 
> 
> 
> Also a quick cameo by Solaria at the end!!



It’s very good Jim…. I have a couple of the voices (Kevin & Solaria) and I am learning some skills with the software…. I am no expert but I would say that (like a real singer) the voice is suited to certain keys… and to my ear, Asterian’s range does not suit those high notes…..


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

parapentep70 said:


> I paid directly. I think it is one of these places where they charge you a small amount (like 0.01€) to make sure the card is valid, but not totally sure. If they did, they cancelled the small charge because I cannot see it now in my card accountancy. What I know is that I paid with a standard CREDIT Mastercard, without any issue. Then Mastercard added the small currency exchange fee (same as when I buy in USD).
> 
> Do not do as I did and try to get the 30% discount for first time buyers _*BEFORE *_you sign-in. If you sign-in without the code and later you try to get the discount, then it will be too late!


You mean entering a code during account creation? I didn't have a code but after signup they put a 15% off coupon in my account. Since I didn't buy anything yet I could always use another email for a new signup if needed.

The 1 cent preauth thing has caused me problems with one of my banks before - a vendor I used dozens of times before switched to that and my whole card ended up getting shut down in the name of "Fraud protection". Took over a month for them to get a new card out to me. And with my other bank they block all international transactions unless I call in first and have them temporarily remove them (but I didn't have a problem ordering directly from dreamtonics for some reason).

Maybe I'll just wait for the new "male rock voice" they previewed and buy then.


----------



## parapentep70

Spaces Are Okay said:


> You mean entering a code during account creation? I didn't have a code but after signup they put a 15% off coupon in my account.


Exactly! I ended up getting only the 15% for this reason!


----------



## J. H. Smith

JimDiGritz said:


> Just wanted to test out Asterian, so created this mockup of a Luther Vandross classic.
> 
> Despite playing with all the parameters, he seems to have quite a breathy voice at the higher registers.
> 
> 
> 
> Also a quick cameo by Solaria at the end!!



No offence – it's just a test, after all – but the perspective appears completely back-to-front to me. Asterian sounds like he is singing out of his comfortable zone (which is bass after all), up on a big stage in front of an almost empty auditorium, stressed and distant, while that insistant drum machine HH pattern keeps at it in my face.

This is a dreamy ballad and I'd expect a relaxed, close-up and intimate vocal with the comp in the background.

I don't have Asterian (and he's not on my wishlist) but here, he seems to be quite the wrong singer for the task.


----------



## Licinus

parapentep70 said:


> Exactly! I ended up getting only the 15% for this reason!


So, how exactly do you get the 30 % off coupon?


----------



## Hadrondrift

Licinus said:


> So, how exactly do you get the 30 % off coupon?


Enter the code "DLsiteWelcome30" when you *create* your account. During the process of account *creation *you get the opportunity to enter this code, which is valid for three days.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

odod said:


> Finally i've found the perfect setting for Xuan Yu .. Have no regret after all, He is such powerful voice and very useful. Here's the duet with Kevin, also found his best setting! So happy today ..


Sounds quite good, maybe could use slight autotune, but the voice is way better than kevin, real and organic


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Tremendouz said:


> Am I misunderstanding or are you implying Mai isn't good? I personally love her voice especially with the soft slider turned up to ~50%.


I think Mai sounds very good, the only thing is that sometimes the vibrato sounds a bit synthetic, but I think it can be fixed with new takes, otherwise, no complaints. This is my first test with Mai. I know absolutely zero japanese, so I made ChatGPT generate me some japanese lyrics, and I have no idea how wrong the grammar is, google translate says it means something but who knows :D

View attachment citypop_a10.mp3


----------



## YaniDee

If you buy V Studio Pro from DLSite, do you get to choose the included voice?


----------



## odod

AceAudioHQ said:


> Sounds quite good, maybe could use slight autotune, but the voice is way better than kevin, real and organic


Thank you, maybe I will .. that one not even mixed yet.. very raw straight out of the box.


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

YaniDee said:


> If you buy V Studio Pro from DLSite, do you get to choose the included voice?


They are sold separately, so yes.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

YaniDee said:


> If you buy V Studio Pro from DLSite, do you get to choose the included voice?


The only included voice is Mai, the rest you need to buy separately or as a bundle


----------



## YaniDee

Spaces Are Okay said:


> They are sold separately, so yes.


The comment below states that maki is included..



AceAudioHQ said:


> The only included voice is Mai, the rest you need to buy separately or as a bundle


Maki sings in English right?


----------



## AceAudioHQ

YaniDee said:


> The comment below states that maki is included..





YaniDee said:


> Maki sings in English right?


Everyone who has Synthesizer V Pro gets Mai for free (it needs to be downloaded separately, it's not included in the actual Synthesizer V Pro package), it sings in English, Japanese and Mandarin Chinese


----------



## odod

I hope she will get released soon .. XiaYuYao


----------



## artomatic

A noob here. Just purchased Synth V.
The DLsite is a bit confusing.
Can someone give me the link to the popular voices (Solaria, Kevin, etc.)? 
Thanks, truly appreciate it!


----------



## odod

artomatic said:


> A noob here. Just purchased Synth V.
> The DLsite is a bit confusing.
> Can someone give me the link to the popular voices (Solaria, Kevin, etc.)?
> Thanks, truly appreciate it!








All Products - Dreamtonics Store







store.dreamtonics.com


----------



## Quasar

AceAudioHQ said:


> Sounds quite good, maybe could use slight autotune, but the voice is way better than kevin, real and organic


Agreed. Xuan Yu has a much more appealing timbre than Kevin, vastly superior. Should have gotten this instead of Kevin, and ("he" "it"? What's the preferred PC pronouns for virtual human voice banks?) will likely be my next purchase, despite not being natively English.


----------



## Quasar

AceAudioHQ said:


> I think Mai sounds very good, the only thing is that sometimes the vibrato sounds a bit synthetic, but I think it can be fixed with new takes, otherwise, no complaints. This is my first test with Mai. I know absolutely zero japanese, so I made ChatGPT generate me some japanese lyrics, and I have no idea how wrong the grammar is, google translate says it means something but who knows :D
> 
> View attachment citypop_a10.mp3


Sounds good. The vocals are perhaps attenuated in the mix a bit, and could be more upfront.


----------



## AleDZMusicProd

Lunatique said:


> That may be true, but when I search YT for SynthV related content, it's still overwhelmingly hobbyist cover songs. Maybe that's just how it is with all musician products, since hobbyists will always outnumber professionals by a lot.


Hi and nice to meet this platform. 
I've made some "hobbyist cover songs" also on YT lately, but I'm also working with Synth V in the independent Label where I do collaborate in writing new italian songs. 
I think cover songs are not always a bad thing and I made mine (in Italian) just because I had to learn quickly how to work with the software with a language that doesn't even egsist in it, and to raise collective interest in other (Italian) producers, as I believe this new system of writing needs to catch on in the music industry. 
We have already prepared a bunch of songs with this method, and for our singers it is a great help and saves recording costs.


----------



## JimDiGritz

If anyone's interested in mockups with Asterian, here's my *updated *Luther Vandross cover.



Since he struggled in the higher registers I've transposed the whole track down and moved his vocals into a more natural range. I've also used a new reverb and remixed it, however whilst the comment about the snare in your face is true, the original is far, far worse (overkill 2000's compression to my ears!)

Vocals: SynthV - Asterian
Backing Vocals: SynthV - Solaria & Kevin
Drums: EZDrummer3
Bass: Ample Bass P
Piano: Analog V
Synths: Analog V


----------



## Quasar

JimDiGritz said:


> If anyone's interested in mockups with Asterian, here's my *updated *Luther Vandross cover.
> 
> 
> 
> Since he struggled in the higher registers I've transposed the whole track down and moved his vocals into a more natural range. I've also used a new reverb and remixed it, however whilst the comment about the snare in your face is true, the original is far, far worse (overkill 2000's compression to my ears!)
> 
> Vocals: SynthV - Asterian
> Backing Vocals: SynthV - Solaria & Kevin
> Drums: EZDrummer3
> Bass: Ample Bass P
> Piano: Analog V
> Synths: Analog V



I admit, everything about this cover arrangement is good, except Asterian doesn't work for me in anything I've heard. I believe the voice banks will continue to get better, probably at a rapid pace.

Among Dreamtonics newest voices is Cong Zheng, and this sort of blew me away:


----------



## odod

Quasar said:


> I admit, everything about this cover arrangement is good, except Asterian doesn't work for me in anything I've heard. I believe the voice banks will continue to get better, probably at a rapid pace.
> 
> Among Dreamtonics newest voices is Cong Zheng, and this sort of blew me away:



My ongoing rendition using Cong Zheng
View attachment Cong Zheng - Alone_MixDown.mp3


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Quasar said:


> Sounds good. The vocals are perhaps attenuated in the mix a bit, and could be more upfront.


Thanks! Yea I've found synth v to be naturally pretty muffled, I have to do lots of processing to bring the vocals to the front and carve space from other tracks, it's already a lot better today


----------



## JimDiGritz

I've not had a chance to test Cong out much.. she seems a little better suited to soft rock. Here's a snippet of a super early draft I'm working on:

View attachment CongJJ_test2.mp3


----------



## Braveheart

Quasar said:


> I admit, everything about this cover arrangement is good, except Asterian doesn't work for me in anything I've heard. I believe the voice banks will continue to get better, probably at a rapid pace.
> 
> Among Dreamtonics newest voices is Cong Zheng, and this sort of blew me away:



Not bad, but the voice is lacking some punch on this song. She sounds flat.


----------



## raidergale

Speaking of Cong Zheng, she can make a convincing male voice if you mess with parameters. This has her at .750 Tension, .300 Gender and +400 Cents to Tone Shift, + additional formant shifting in the DAW.
It's not really what I typically cover, being an anime opening, but I wanted to see if it was doable with a female voice. Backing original vocals probably help to sell the effect.

View attachment CongZhengKickBack.mp3


----------



## JimDiGritz

Hadrondrift said:


> I've been doing some experiments with the English->German dictionary from Eclipsed Sounds that has recently become available. The results are as expected, not exactly "wunderbar".
> 
> German is my native language and our ambitious singers all sound exactly like an English speaking person singing German, with the typical accent that is especially noticeable at the "r". Nevertheless, the lyrics are very well understandable. All in all, rather a little funny experiment than something you could use seriously.
> 
> The order of the performers: Natalie, Solaria, Kevin, Asterian.
> View attachment SynthV_GER.mp3
> 
> "Der Mond ist aufgegangen"



Cool - I can't see any mention of this Dictionary on Eclipsed's website - do you have a link?


----------



## Quasar

Braveheart said:


> Not bad, but the voice is lacking some punch on this song. She sounds flat.


Agree that it would sound better with more punch. But being able to wail like Koko Taylor or Ethel Merman is still futuristic at this point, though it may not be long considering how this stuff seems to be evolving.


----------



## Hadrondrift

JimDiGritz said:


> I can't see any mention of this Dictionary on Eclipsed's website


It was mentioned in Eclipsed Sounds' newsletter: https://shoutout.wix.com/so/b6OLhqkNG?languageTag=en

As far as I know, there is no public link. You get a product download link to a special Google drive folder when you purchase Solaria or Asterian from them. They updated that folder with the new databases recently.


----------



## David Cuny

raidergale said:


> Speaking of Cong Zheng, she can make a convincing male voice if you mess with parameters. This has her at .750 Tension, .300 Gender and +400 Cents to Tone Shift, + additional formant shifting in the DAW.


I also think the female voices tend to have less of an accent when using the trans-lingual function than the male voices.

It's tempting to pick up one of these voices for the new Vocal Modes - and because they sound quite good - but I'm going to _try_ to hold off until the new English voices are released.

But if people keep posting convincing examples of them singing in English, I'm not sure how long I can hold out...


----------



## JimDiGritz

Hadrondrift said:


> It was mentioned in Eclipsed Sounds' newsletter: https://shoutout.wix.com/so/b6OLhqkNG?languageTag=en
> 
> As far as I know, there is no public link. You get a product download link to a special Google drive folder when you purchase Solaria or Asterian from them. They updated that folder with the new databases recently.


Found it!


----------



## J. H. Smith

JimDiGritz said:


> If anyone's interested in mockups with Asterian, here's my *updated *Luther Vandross cover.
> 
> 
> 
> Since he struggled in the higher registers I've transposed the whole track down and moved his vocals into a more natural range. I've also used a new reverb and remixed it, however whilst the comment about the snare in your face is true, the original is far, far worse (overkill 2000's compression to my ears!)
> 
> Vocals: SynthV - Asterian
> Backing Vocals: SynthV - Solaria & Kevin
> Drums: EZDrummer3
> Bass: Ample Bass P
> Piano: Analog V
> Synths: Analog V



Really nice (except the analog drums 😖). Now the lyrics come out, too. 😌


----------



## Ruchir

Here’s. Very short demo of Solaria and SynthV just bought today. First time I’ve used this and made in 20 mins, I.e. its a breathtakingly short learning Curve. Looking forward to learning more about what this genre has to offer:


----------



## mothershout

Lunatique said:


> That may be true, but when I search YT for SynthV related content, it's still overwhelmingly hobbyist cover songs. Maybe that's just how it is with all musician products, since hobbyists will always outnumber professionals by a lot.


As @Tremendouz said, that may well be because hobbyists specifically mention SV in their titles or descriptions. My stuff is on YT, and I don’t mention SV at all. Not because I’m hiding it, but because my distribution company don’t upload descriptions for YT tracks, and in any case I don’t bother listing every virtual or real instrument used.


----------



## shotsi673

FWIW here’s my first attempt with Solaria. NB: Music accompaniment & mix only a guide at this stage. Found the gui slightly off putting but obviously it takes time. Works almost seamlessly in LPX. This is very powerful software.


----------



## Trash Panda

Getting a little bit closer to making Asterian the operatic star he's meant to be. Still a fair bit of work to do to get the frequency ranges sounding more natural. I think there's too much aspiration coming through.

View attachment FF6 Opera Overture (Draco Solo) - 03 Movement 3 - Draco's Solo.mp3


----------



## milford59

Trash Panda said:


> Getting a little bit closer to making Asterian the operatic star he's meant to be. Still a fair bit of work to do to get the frequency ranges sounding more natural. I think there's too much aspiration coming through.
> 
> View attachment FF6 Opera Overture (Draco Solo) - 03 Movement 3 - Draco's Solo.mp3


This is pretty good, although I am not that keen on Asterian‘s range anyway, so it’s probably not a voice that I would buy….. I think maybe we are all expecting too much from these AI voices ? - look how far this technology has come in the last few years - I think what we have available to us now, for the modest cost, is absolutely fantastic. It‘s maybe a mistake to compare with a real singer….


----------



## requiemdissident

milford59 said:


> This is pretty good, although I am not that keen on Asterian‘s range anyway, so it’s probably not a voice that I would buy….. I think maybe we are all expecting too much from these AI voices ? - look how far this technology has come in the last few years - I think what we have available to us now, for the modest cost, is absolutely fantastic. It‘s maybe a mistake to compare with a real singer….


To be fair, not too long ago, they're barely unintelligible and now they can actually sound human. Plus, it takes only a few hours to make them sound realistic when in the past it would be double that time just to make voicebanks just on the edge of making them be able to be understood. 

With the way SynthV is improving, I assume that it won't be long where we could emulate and customize realistic performance with ease. 

What I'm really anticipating for is the glorious return of glottal effects. Need that metal screaming to come back improved.


----------



## pderbidge

Joe_D said:


> It’s a well-known Manhattan Transfer arrangement, which was published decades ago:



Takes me back to my days in a jazz a cappella group. I've sung this at least 100 times at various performances over the years. Love this song and love Manhattan Transfer.


----------



## ThomasS

pderbidge said:


> Takes me back to my days in a jazz a cappella group. I've sung this at least 100 times at various performances over the years. Love this song and love Manhattan Transfer.


Yes, it was a very famous arrangement (won a Grammy Award.) I've been to many choir competitions and festivals and often singers from different groups will spontaneously sing this together for fun, so it seems like everyone knows it. That's why I chose it to try Synthesizer V, because it is well known. By the way, the link that Joe_D posted is a transcription of Manhattan Transfer, but the track I made for Synthesizer V is based on the published arrangement by Gene Puerling, which has different harmonies and rhythms than Manhattan Transfer (more like the Singers Unlimited style) which I think suits Synth V very well.


----------



## pderbidge

ThomasS said:


> Yes, it was a very famous arrangement (won a Grammy Award.) I've been to many choir competitions and festivals and often singers from different groups will spontaneously sing this together for fun, so it seems like everyone knows it. That's why I chose it to try Synthesizer V, because it is well known. By the way, the link that Joe_D posted is a transcription of Manhattan Transfer, but the track I made for Synthesizer V is based on the published arrangement by Gene Puerling, which has different harmonies and rhythms than Manhattan Transfer (more like the Singers Unlimited style) which I think suits Synth V very well.


I just went to listen to your Synth V arrangement and it sounds great. Sounds like you're getting a good grip on using the software. How long would you say the learning curve is for learning Synth V?

PS. I did notice the different arrangement. The only one I've ever heard was the Manhattan Transfer version so it's fun to hear something a little different.


----------



## soulofsound

AceAudioHQ said:


> I think Mai sounds very good, the only thing is that sometimes the vibrato sounds a bit synthetic, but I think it can be fixed with new takes, otherwise, no complaints. This is my first test with Mai. I know absolutely zero japanese, so I made ChatGPT generate me some japanese lyrics, and I have no idea how wrong the grammar is, google translate says it means something but who knows :D
> 
> View attachment citypop_a10.mp3


Awesome sound. Is Mai a free download with Synth V studiio? I haven't looked into it yet.


----------



## Ruchir

Actually the Mai vocal library that comes packaged with pro is quite good.
Ive redone one of my new tracks using vocals generated with Mai


----------



## AceAudioHQ

soulofsound said:


> Awesome sound. Is Mai a free download with Synth V studiio? I haven't looked into it yet.


Yes it's free, you just have to download it separately, it's not included with the synth v package, the link is somewhere in this thread and also on dreamtonics forum


----------



## parapentep70

AceAudioHQ said:


> Yes it's free, you just have to download it separately, it's not included with the synth v package, the link is somewhere in this thread and also on dreamtonics forum


Here: For anyone interested, it is scrolling down here: https://dreamtonics.com/en/synthesizerv/ , 1st in the 2nd column in the list of voices. You click and can see "download" instead of "buy".

Discovered just last week thanks to the forum


----------



## ThomasS

pderbidge said:


> How long would you say the learning curve is for learning Synth V?


I've had the program (with Solaria, Asterian, Kevin & Natalie) for about 10 days, and have learned something new every day. But there is still more to master.

It's harder to make a decent soloist than a simple choir demo like I posted earlier (_A Nightingale Sang in Berkely Square_) because a soloist needs more expression, slides, scoops, vibrato, etc., whereas the choir only needs to tone down all the expression (especially vibrato on the first half of notes) which is quick and easy. Still, to make a great choir we will have to wait for at least two more good English AI voices, because the same voices do not double well with each other, so I had to double each part with another Synth V voice (duplicate track and change singer.) The limit right now is just 8 singers (two on each part) but when we have more singers with good English accents the choirs should sound very convincing.

Now I'm exploring how to make convincing soloists. Most demos I've heard do not convince me because even though the program intelligently adds pitch-based expression, if the rhythm of the singer is too perfect (particularly quantized) it will never sound human, because real singers do not sing that way. So I will never used quantized midi files for soloists (either imported or made inside Synth V).

I have tried copying recorded vocalists, which can be done manually by playing along with a track, but there are two automatic ways to do this. The first is to separate the vocal and track from a recording (I use Izotope RX, but other programs also do it) and then make a midi file of the separated vocal in Melodyne. (The midi notes need tweaking, but the timing is usually an exact copy of the real singer.) So this gets you sounding very close to the original. I just tried this using a recording of Nat King Cole and duplicated his performance with Asterian, and it only took an hour or so.

But a better method, I believe, is to use Praat and Hataori's scripts to copy the expression and vibrato curves from a recording and impose it on a Synth V singer. I am trying this now, and it looks promising. It will take more time to initially set up, but should save time later because you will not have to tweak all the vibrato and expression manually. I will post some examples when I have gotten better at it.

Of course, ultimately I am not interested in making demos and copies of existing songs and singers, but use Synth V for my own songs. But to learn how real singers actually sing, and see it inside Synth V is a good learning tool, so that is a good start to using the program.


----------



## shotsi673

ThomasS said:


> I've had the program (with Solaria, Asterian, Kevin & Natalie) for about 10 days, and have learned something new every day. But there is still more to master.
> 
> It's harder to make a decent soloist than a simple choir demo like I posted earlier (_A Nightingale Sang in Berkely Square_) because a soloist needs more expression, slides, scoops, vibrato, etc., whereas the choir only needs to tone down all the expression (especially vibrato on the first half of notes) which is quick and easy. Still, to make a great choir we will have to wait for at least two more good English AI voices, because the same voices do not double well with each other, so I had to double each part with another Synth V voice (duplicate track and change singer.) The limit right now is just 8 singers (two on each part) but when we have more singers with good English accents the choirs should sound very convincing.
> 
> Now I'm exploring how to make convincing soloists. Most demos I've heard do not convince me because even though the program intelligently adds pitch-based expression, if the rhythm of the singer is too perfect (particularly quantized) it will never sound human, because real singers do not sing that way. So I will never used quantized midi files for soloists (either imported or made inside Synth V).
> 
> I have tried copying recorded vocalists, which can be done manually by playing along with a track, but there are two automatic ways to do this. The first is to separate the vocal and track from a recording (I use Izotope RX, but other programs also do it) and then make a midi file of the separated vocal in Melodyne. (The midi notes need tweaking, but the timing is usually an exact copy of the real singer.) So this gets you sounding very close to the original. I just tried this using a recording of Nat King Cole and duplicated his performance with Asterian, and it only took an hour or so.
> 
> But a better method, I believe, is to use Praat and Hataori's scripts to copy the expression and vibrato curves from a recording and impose it on a Synth V singer. I am trying this now, and it looks promising. It will take more time to initially set up, but should save time later because you will to have to tweak all the vibrato and expression manually. I will post some examples when I have gotten better at it.
> 
> Of course, ultimately I am not interested in making demos and copies of existing songs and singers, but use Synth V for my own songs. But to learn how real singers actually sing, and see it inside Synth V is a good learning tool, so that is a good start to using the program.


What are “Praat and Hataori's scripts”?


----------



## ThomasS

shotsi673 said:


> What are “Praat and Hataori's scripts”?


Praat is a separate program (download HERE) which analyzes and converts to a computer file a singer's total pitch curve, vibrato and expression from a recording.

Hataori Scripts (download HERE) are functions inside Synth V which take the Praat files and apply them to a Synth V voice.

Both programs are cutting edge, and I expect the technology will be even greater in the future. For now, the only way to learn them is to carefully follow the Hataori videos (HERE) which takes time and concentration, because there is no audio narration and TMI (way _too much information_) but nevertheless quite amazing.


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

ThomasS said:


> Now I'm exploring how to make convincing soloists. Most demos I've heard do not convince me because even though the program intelligently adds pitch-based expression, if the rhythm of the singer is too perfect (particularly quantized) it will never sound human, because real singers do not sing that way. So I will never used quantized midi files for soloists (either imported or made inside Synth V).
> 
> I have tried copying recorded vocalists, which can be done manually by playing along with a track, but there are two automatic ways to do this. The first is to separate the vocal and track from a recording (I use Izotope RX, but other programs also do it) and then make a midi file of the separated vocal in Melodyne. (The midi notes need tweaking, but the timing is usually an exact copy of the real singer.) So this gets you sounding very close to the original. I just tried this using a recording of Nat King Cole and duplicated his performance with Asterian, and it only took an hour or so.


Imperfect timing is one of the keys I've discovered for making synthv sound more human. Even though autotune and microadjustments inside a DAW have altered our expectations (and weirdly made it easier for programs like SynthV to sound closer to "modern" human vocalists), robotically perfect timing still comes across as unnatural, especially when done by a computer.

Coming in a bit early or late, stretching out a note longer than usual, etc are things humans do, so if you get used to increasing the grid resolution to something like 1/8 or 1/16 per quarter and nudge things around a bit, you're going to get more believable results.

I don't do covers, just originals, and there are times when I'm working something else in a track or demoing a VST that I forget that Natalie isn't a real person. And that's without any real line drawing to tweak pitch or vibrato (saving that until later in hopes they make the process easier in an update)


----------



## Soundbed

Haven’t read all 134 pages. My first impression is that this would be an excellent tool to make custom “vocal chops” licks for original future bass and other genres.

Meaning; use it to create a copyright free vocal “sample” for the purpose of pitch shifting and manipulating that “sample” to incorporate it into a production that doesn’t have any vocal chops that can be found on splice, adsr, arcade, etc.


----------



## shotsi673

ThomasS said:


> Praat is a separate program (download HERE) which analyzes and converts to a computer file a singer's total pitch curve, vibrato and expression from a recording.
> 
> Hataori Scripts (download HERE) are functions inside Synth V which take the Praat files and apply them to a Synth V voice.
> 
> Both programs are cutting edge, and I expect the technology will be even greater in the future. For now, the only way to learn them is to carefully follow the Hataori videos (HERE) which takes time and concentration, because there is no audio narration and TMI (way _too much information_) but nevertheless quite amazing.


Opens up a brand new world! Thanks


----------



## Quasar

Ruchir said:


> Actually the Mai vocal library that comes packaged with pro is quite good.
> Ive redone one of my new tracks using vocals generated with Mai



Really cool track, I enjoyed listening to it. At about 1:21 she starts really belting it loud. How do you do this? Was raising the loudness parameter enough? Or is there some other trick to getting a timbre that sounds like she's singing more forcefully?


----------



## Ruchir

Quasar said:


> Really cool track, I enjoyed listening to it. At about 1:21 she starts really belting it loud. How do you do this? Was raising the loudness parameter enough? Or is there some other trick to getting a timbre that sounds like she's singing more forcefully?


I was wondering the same myself. Perhaps the AI sees a sudden jump in pitch as an indication of emphasis. I didn’t do anything to make this happen.


----------



## milford59

Here is a song that I wrote for my wife - I would describe it an uptempo Pop song and I have used “Kevin” as the singer. Feedback is welcomed.


----------



## ThomasS

milford59 said:


> Here is a song that I wrote for my wife - I would describe it an uptempo Pop song and I have used “Kevin” as the singer. Feedback is welcomed.



It's very good! and very convincing. A small point - Kevin pronounces too perfectly for this style, so he occasionally sounds like a classical or opera singer because of the precise pronunciation. I sometimes stop him from singing letter "t" except at the start of words, and replace it with a "d" 
like spelling _little _as _liddle_, etc. In your song, maybe try

it was = id was 
wanted = wanded or waned 
won't grow = woan grow 

also, his "T"'s are always too loud, so I would suggest lowering their volume in many places. I have lots of respellings for rock music (like _and _= _an_, or _let me_ = l_e me_, and stuff like that) so it is just necessary to try various respellings to find what sounds more like a real singer.

My second suggestion is to turn off "snap" and move the start and ends around, lengthening or shortening words, because when he is quantized he sounds a little robotic.

But all in all great work and songwriting!


----------



## milford59

Thomas - that is great feedback - thank you very much - I will try that and re-mix it with an improved vocal. I appreciate your response.


----------



## Markrs

Not sure if this has been posted already, but there is a Youtube video that compares some of the Synth V female voices that might be useful.



Same track using Cong Zheng


----------



## doctoremmet

I haven’t been keeping track with this thread and find the Synth V universe to be largely inpenetrable, in terms of quickly gathering “incremental” information 

I am interested to learn which female vocal can do operatic, if there is such an option in the first place? Cheers!


----------



## Markrs

doctoremmet said:


> I haven’t been keeping track with this thread and find the Synth V universe to be largely inpenetrable, in terms of quickly gathering “incremental” information
> 
> I am interested to learn which female vocal can do operatic, if there is such an option in the first place? Cheers!


No voices can do operatic at the moment. The closest is Asterian when he does Theatrical.



Blancanegra said:


> Nessum Dorma - Asterianotti  1.0, SV 1.8
> View attachment Nessum Dorma test.mp3
> 
> 
> Theatrical vocal mode 100%


----------



## doctoremmet

Markrs said:


> No voices can do operatic at the moment. The closest is Asterian when he does Theatrical.


Gotcha. Thanks for the quick answer Mark. Appreciated!


----------



## richiebee

Soundbed said:


> Haven’t read all 134 pages. My first impression is that this would be an excellent tool to make custom “vocal chops” licks for original future bass and other genres.
> 
> Meaning; use it to create a copyright free vocal “sample” for the purpose of pitch shifting and manipulating that “sample” to incorporate it into a production that doesn’t have any vocal chops that can be found on splice, adsr, arcade, etc.


That might be against the EULA. I've seen this discussed/explained what was legal, I think by Eclipsed Sounds, but I can't remember where. Might be on the Synth-V forum (https://forum.synthesizerv.com/) or it could have been on Twitter or something.


----------



## richiebee

Spaces Are Okay said:


> Imperfect timing is one of the keys I've discovered for making synthv sound more human. Even though autotune and microadjustments inside a DAW have altered our expectations (and weirdly made it easier for programs like SynthV to sound closer to "modern" human vocalists), robotically perfect timing still comes across as unnatural, especially when done by a computer.
> 
> Coming in a bit early or late, stretching out a note longer than usual, etc are things humans do, so if you get used to increasing the grid resolution to something like 1/8 or 1/16 per quarter and nudge things around a bit, you're going to get more believable results.
> 
> I don't do covers, just originals, and there are times when I'm working something else in a track or demoing a VST that I forget that Natalie isn't a real person. And that's without any real line drawing to tweak pitch or vibrato (saving that until later in hopes they make the process easier in an update)


The voices do this to an extent on their own - its part of their personality. Natalie is great at dragging notes out. I think the male voices are a lot more rigid, and indeed need some massaging into the realm of the natural, than the female voices. Note also that you can control the length of individual phonemes through the Note Properties panel, which might be more painful, but definitely a more accurate way of achieving realism. You can see the phoneme timing right there on the piano roll... may need to turn the visualization on (can't remember what the default is) using the icon on the piano roll line.


----------



## Werty

Markrs said:


> No voices can do operatic at the moment. The closest is Asterian when he does Theatrical.


Myriad



https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/extract-from-magnificat-mp3.40011/


----------



## Markrs

Werty said:


> Myriad
> 
> 
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/extract-from-magnificat-mp3.40011/


That doesn't sound like Synth V though, more like Vocaliod


----------



## Werty

Markrs said:


> That doesn't sound like Synth V though, more like Vocaliod


Sure, but the tone it's impressive, sounds like a sad robot with an angelic vooice. And it was done 2 years ago.


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

richiebee said:


> The voices do this to an extent on their own - its part of their personality. Natalie is great at dragging notes out. I think the male voices are a lot more rigid, and indeed need some massaging into the realm of the natural, than the female voices. Note also that you can control the length of individual phonemes through the Note Properties panel, which might be more painful, but definitely a more accurate way of achieving realism. You can see the phoneme timing right there on the piano roll... may need to turn the visualization on (can't remember what the default is) using the icon on the piano roll line.


Already do that for most words, as well as changing the strength of different parts to accentuate (or dial back) attack.

One of the reasons I physically move the notes instead of changing timing (I do that sometimes as well) is that synthv has this weird quirk of not getting the words right if there is a gap between notes, but as soon as you drag them together, everything flows again. So I've found that for now at least it's a bit easier to abut notes that are part of phrases and let the algorithm do its thing.


----------



## Soundbed

richiebee said:


> That might be against the EULA. I've seen this discussed/explained what was legal, I think by Eclipsed Sounds, but I can't remember where. Might be on the Synth-V forum (https://forum.synthesizerv.com/) or it could have been on Twitter or something.


Thanks for responding!

I’m not talking about selling a sample pack.

I’m talking about generating content to use in a composition.

I’d love to see the EULA because this is the only use I’d have for it now. None of the examples I’ve heard can replace hiring a human singer in my work. But they are convincing enough to make my own, personal vocal chops pack (for my own compositions, which would then be licensed).


----------



## JimDiGritz

My latest SynthV cover (finally able to get the Bass closer with Asterian)



Featuring:
Solaria
Cong Zheng
Kevin
Xuan Yu
Asterian


----------



## richiebee

Soundbed said:


> Thanks for responding!
> 
> I’m not talking about selling a sample pack.
> 
> I’m talking about generating content to use in a composition.
> 
> I’d love to see the EULA because this is the only use I’d have for it now. None of the examples I’ve heard can replace hiring a human singer in my work. But they are convincing enough to make my own, personal vocal chops pack (for my own compositions, which would then be licensed).


Ah, okay, well if its to use in your own compositions, you're definitely good to go. 

Here's Dreamtonic's EULA for their voice packs - https://dreamtonics.com/en/terms/
Here's Eclipsed Sounds EULA for Solaria (I assume Asterian is the same) - https://www.eclipsedsounds.com/solaria-license


----------



## Ruchir

I’d love to see more cinematic tracks using the AI voices. A lot of the songs online seem to be pop covers at the moment. My own tests seem to suggest they can work well. I’d love to learn more about workflows on this. Here’s a cinematic style demo Ive been experimenting with today:


----------



## ThomasS

Spaces Are Okay said:


> One of the reasons I physically move the notes instead of changing timing (I do that sometimes as well) is that synthv has this weird quirk of not getting the words right if there is a gap between notes, but as soon as you drag them together, everything flows again.


Yeah, I found the same thing. What I do now is to adjust the START of notes where I want them to be in time , leaving gaps temporarily, and then highlight the whole phrase and hit the letter "G" (which I assigned to "remove short silences") and increase the threshold to has high as possible. This smooths out the phrase and connects the notes with good transitions. I've even tried having no gaps whatsoever, and whenever I want no singing I put in "Br" (on a very high pitch above the rest) and smooth that just like the rest, so the whole song has all notes connected, but some are just breaths.

If I want a note to come in earlier than the previous note, I first pull back the previous note to very short (only temporary) and then put the second note where I want it. Then the above process will exactly re-lengthen the previous note to the new location of the second note. The thing is, my assigned keystroke "G" never drags the start of a note backwards to the earlier note, but only lengthens the end of a note before a gap to the start of the next note.


----------



## Quasar

Ruchir said:


> I’d love to see more cinematic tracks using the AI voices. A lot of the songs online seem to be pop covers at the moment. My own tests seem to suggest they can work well. I’d love to learn more about workflows on this. Here’s a cinematic style demo Ive been experimenting with today:



That's lovely. I think that so-called cinematic music, along with contemporary styles of post-Autotune pop are where it's going to be easiest to use these artificial voices, because in the former case (as in your post here) there is a lot of complex sound effect-y stuff than can obscure the occasional imperfect phoneme etc., and with postmodern pop people are becoming culturally attuned to synthetic vocal sounds, as they did in the '80s with mechanized drum machine rhythmic patterns...

...I would like to see more in the way of traditional forms of folk, jazz and rock, pre-computer age tracks using these voice banks: to be able to emulate Joe Cocker or Lena Horne etc. styles, which will be much harder to do.

For my own amateur dabbling interests, the idea isn't to fool anyone, but to be able to quote or allude to those styles as part of an undisguised 21st century sound, and do it well.


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

I'm having a problem that may have been addressed in the past 135 pages, but I have no idea how to find it.

I recorded the main melody live by playing the daw track and hitting record inside synth v. It worked and I got the la-la-la's (other than the overlaps I had to fix)

I then created a new part in synthv for the counter melody, switched to that track in my daw, and hit record. I recorded all the notes, put he "la's" in their boxes, but only generated audio for a fraction of the first note. The other notes are bright green, no overlap, it shows the pitch graph, but no audio has been generated for them.

I've tried resetting everything, recomputing, and generating a new take but nothing gives me any sound. This happened the other day and somehow I fixed it, but honestly I don't know what I did after trying a dozen things that made it work.

Any suggestions?


----------



## ThomasS

Spaces Are Okay said:


> Any suggestions?


Wierd...I'm wondering if perhaps there is some overlap you can't find or missed? I never let Synth V receive any midi file with either overlaps or gaps, since it doesn't handle either well. When making midi tracks for Synth V in my daw, I shorten all my midi notes in one go (highlight all and drag the right side to the left) so that there are all gaps, then hit legato quantize (I think most daws have this function) which lengthens every note to the start of the next, making a smooth unbroken and un-overlapped midi file. Any time I want no singing I put a high note (easily seen) for the "br" so Synth V has a clean midi with no gaps and especially no overlaps, which can stop the sound.

This may solve your issue, or maybe it is something else, but I have been using the above method for about 10 days and never had this problem.


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

No overlaps, at least one whole grid space (about a eighth note) in between. I even tried changing voice libraries to mai and emily forte but they didn't work either.

I ended up just creating a new track and drawing the notes in by hand and copying and pasting the repeats until I had what I needed. 

I kept the problem track and when I have some time I'm going to see if I can figure out some sort of combination of moves that forces it to completely regenerate, since none of the menu commands individually did the job.


----------



## Trash Panda

doctoremmet said:


> I haven’t been keeping track with this thread and find the Synth V universe to be largely inpenetrable, in terms of quickly gathering “incremental” information
> 
> I am interested to learn which female vocal can do operatic, if there is such an option in the first place? Cheers!


I've had the most success thus far with Qing Siu, followed by Solaria for female operatic style.

Bear in mind, the two below examples are literally when I was first learning how to use the program. I'll be revisiting this piece soon with better results.



Trash Panda said:


> This was actually super helpful! Aside from figuring out how to dial in the vibrato properly, the key points seem to be high tension, remove all breathiness, dial in gender towards the male side a bit, set tone shift to -400, and max out any vocal modes related to belting, power or chest voice.
> 
> The below could still use a ton of tweaking, but even for a first effort, I think it's a vast improvement over the actual English singer hired for the FFVI Pixel Remaster for the same cue. Not that it was a high bar to clear.
> 
> Final Fantasy VI - Aria di Mezzo Carreterre (backing track is the music-only version of the song from the OST).
> 
> Qing Su:
> View attachment FF6 - Aria Di Mezzo Carrettere (Qing Su).mp3
> 
> 
> Solaria:
> View attachment FF6 - Aria Di Mezzo Carrettere (Solaria).mp3



Astarian with a little tweaking of the vibrato controls can do some pretty decent operatic style.



Trash Panda said:


> Getting a little bit closer to making Asterian the operatic star he's meant to be. Still a fair bit of work to do to get the frequency ranges sounding more natural. I think there's too much aspiration coming through.
> 
> View attachment FF6 Opera Overture (Draco Solo) - 03 Movement 3 - Draco's Solo.mp3


----------



## ThomasS

There are a lot of Synth V covers and copies of known recordings, so a lot of hobbyists use the program for this purpose. That is not what I want, but I was curious that while some copies are quite good, the majority leave me underwhelmed, because the timing is too stiff and quantized, even when the other parameters are well-done.

So I thought I would experiment to see the best way to properly duplicate an existing recording with the type of vocal timing that we expect to hear from a live singer.

FIRST METHOD

The first method I tried was to let Melodyne generate a midi file of the original vocal. The notes and word-breaks needed tweaking, but the timing of the midi file is exactly what the original singer sang. After a bit of tweaking, I loaded the midi file into Synth V and assigned a singer and typed in the words. I hit duplicate-track three times and assigned each to a different singer. The whole process was very quick, 20 – 30 mins max.

View attachment Kevin - Unforgettable.mp3

Kevin - Unforgettable
View attachment Solaria - Unforgettable.mp3

Solaria - Unforgettable
View attachment Asterian - Unforgettable.mp3

Asterian - Unforgettable
View attachment Natalie - Unforgettable.mp3

Natalie - Unforgettable

The timing is exactly what Nat King Cole sang, but the expression, slides, vibrato, etc. is 100% Synth V instant mode. Each singer is different because they have their own AI parameters, but this was one midi file and one track (just duplicated). This was a good test to compare the four English singers. But this old-fashioned crooning style is well-suited to these voices, so out of the box you can get this style. For rock or country or blues or heavy metal, etc. a lot of work would have to be done, and I don’t know if it's worth it if new voices are coming to do that instantly.

SECOND METHOD

In any case, I tried the Praat & Hataori method of duplicating the pitch curve of the original vocal, following the instructions HERE. It took me longer (I was learning how to do it) and I could only get one verse before giving up.

View attachment Kevin - Desperado.mp3

Kevin - Desperado

Now I would have expected that the pitch curve of Don Henley of the Eagles would have made Kevin sound more convincing, but it appears that the pronunciation and timing and volume of phenomes and other parameters still make this sound unrealistic. Also, the Praat/Hataori method needs a lot of work to get it right. Of course it can be done because I've heard others do it, but not for me. I just wanted to see how it worked fairly instantly.

I wonder what others have experienced with either of the two methods, or any other.


----------



## milford59

Very impressive Thomas - and your experimentation and tips are very helpful for people (me) who are still learning this tool... I would say all vocalists passed the "test".... in "Unforgettable", the vocal is very "exposed" and even in that scenario a casual listener may not even realise that its an AI voice....


----------



## Soundbed

ThomasS said:


> pronunciation and timing and volume of phenomes and other parameters still make this sound unrealistic


You did a great job thank you for your time. The pronunciation and phenomes are what get me. Singing is largely vowels, and getting a particular vowel sound (not necessarily the way it sounds when spoken) is one of the things that makes human singing so interesting.

It seems like they took a model that begins with the way words sound when we talk. But we need to be able to program it with vowels singers use when they sing.

I’m reminded of the interview when Sia claims to be able to rhyme almost anything, simply by singing it differently. Like rhyming chandelier with exist. 

Skip to 5:12


----------



## ThomasS

Soundbed said:


> It seems like they took a model that begins with the way words sound when we talk. But we need to be able to program it with vowels singers use when they sing.


Absolutely right Soundbed. I’m realizing this because of trying to make Synth V sound like a singer! I've started adding things to my user dictionary. _(And_ becomes _An_ in most cases. _-ing_ always becomes _-in_. T’s are often either dropped or replaced with a D [_liddle_ for _little_, etc.] Words starting with Y (especially _you_) change to _ch_ if they follow a T [_can’t you_ becomes _can chew,_ etc.] Y becomes a J if it follows a D [_Did You_ becomes Dih Jew, etc.] and hundreds more. I'm sure there is a list somewhere of these type of things, but if not I will make my own. The perfect pronunciation of Synth V is even too good for speech, let alone singing.

The ability to make a user dictionary is, of course, a great feature, and you can have many (one for rock, one for country, one for opera, etc), but some words need tweaking in the phenomes, either volume or timing, and it would be fantastic if these controls could be part of the dictionaries. I’m sure things like this will be added to the program in the future, if we let them know.

Still, I’m not complaining. The program is incredible. There should be a special forum for people to share their spellings and phenomes with other users.


----------



## Soundbed

ThomasS said:


> some words need tweaking in the phenomes, either volume or timing, and it would be fantastic if these controls could be part of


... the product, I agree.

Finding alternative, more phonetic spellings is certainly the first step.

Next, having a sort of XY vowel & dipthong control would be helpful as well, to automate vowels that are extended, or for certain stylistic approaches.

I am imagining something like this kHz Formant filter:






Ultimately we'd want to be able to do some very stylistic vowel stuff, like...

"She doesn’t sing “wanna” or “want to.” She makes it sound more like “wah-oh-ooh-na.” " from https://mollysmusic.org/blog/vocal-fringe-techniques-indie-stylizing/

Or

"I won't give up on us" sounds like "u - iiii - p, oh - iiii - n, uh - iii - s" etc. This might drive someone else crazy, but it shows the kind of control (or programming AI or whatever) would be needed at some point.









Dialect Dissection: Indie Voice/Cursive Singing - The Definitive Post


The origins of indie voice and cursive singing are surprisingly intricate.




www.acelinguist.com





^^^ video on this one is informative, I think, at 0:50 Rule #2 to add the letter I (again, for one type of very stylized singing).


----------



## richiebee

ThomasS said:


> Still, I’m not complaining. The program is incredible. There should be a special forum for people to share their spellings and phenomes with other users.


Without wishing to divert folks from VI Control, the most logical answer here is to use the official forum - https://forum.synthesizerv.com/. It's not very high in traffic, nor very complex in content, but I think if folks from VI-Control were there, the default behaviour, and the forum content could change to a generally more intelligent level. I don't mean that to demean anyone who currently uses that forum, but the content does need to adapt and evolve if its going to attract composers and songwriters.


----------



## Soundbed

For a more historical perspective (or if my previous examples make anybody cringe) here is a jazz singer deconstructing why some monophthongs (sp??) get changed into diphthongs and why some sounds simply don't sound great, like Septemberrrr gets changed to Septembah.

She also goes into jazz and classic rock (earlier in the video) but here's a place to jump in:


----------



## Koyo

https://rumble.com/v24me2g-the-eye-o...hurricane.html

Feedback on making the singing or anything else sound better is welcome!

- Singer: Solaria (Emma Crowley)
- Piano: Pianoteq 8, Steinway model D
- Upright bass: Ample Sound ABU
- DAW: Reaper (Linux)


----------



## Ruchir

Koyo said:


> https://rumble.com/v24me2g-the-eye-o...hurricane.html
> 
> Feedback on making the singing or anything else sound better is welcome!
> 
> - Singer: Solaria (Emma Crowley)
> - Piano: Pianoteq 8, Steinway model D
> - Upright bass: Ample Sound ABU
> - DAW: Reaper (Linux)


Very nice. To take it to the next level, I’d suggest splitting the song words into more notes to let the AI shine through more.


----------



## David Cuny

Soundbed said:


> I am imagining something like this kHz Formant filter...


Creating a formant filter that attenuates frequencies isn't that difficult, but you're _adding_ formats to a signal where none had previously existed.

_Shifting_ formants is a different matter, as it requires identifying where the formants are, and where you want them moved to. Plus, these formants aren't in static locations - they change over time. Here's a spectrogram from a post earlier in this thread, created in _Praat_. The blue line is pitch, and the red lines are what _Praat_ identifies as the formants:







Note that the positions of the formants change over time, making things difficult.

I put together quick and dirty tool to see how feasible it would be to create a program that could shift the formants. I was probably too ambitious in what I was doing - simply _shifting_ the formants would have been a more reasonable task. Instead, I tried creating some _new_ formants. So perhaps I could still make it work...

Anyway, link to post.

I should have added: I don't think _SynthV_ thinks in terms of formants, or at least, not directly. It doesn't have to. The neural network learns how how to adjust the spectral envelope and perhaps the glottal pulse to make the vocal "Strong" or "Lucid", and gives the users levers to adjust these values. But I doubt it needs to care about "formant 1" or so on. It identifies the relevant features in the inputs (that's what neural networks _do_), and those are likely to be completely opaque, even to the developer.


----------



## Licinus

ThomasS said:


> Absolutely right Soundbed. I’m realizing this because of trying to make Synth V sound like a singer! I've started adding things to my user dictionary. _(And_ becomes _An_ in most cases. _-ing_ always becomes _-in_. T’s are often either dropped or replaced with a D [_liddle_ for _little_, etc.] Words starting with Y (especially _you_) change to _ch_ if they follow a T [_can’t you_ becomes _can chew,_ etc.] Y becomes a J if it follows a D [_Did You_ becomes Dih Jew, etc.] and hundreds more. I'm sure there is a list somewhere of these type of things, but if not I will make my own. The perfect pronunciation of Synth V is even too good for speech, let alone singing.
> 
> The ability to make a user dictionary is, of course, a great feature, and you can have many (one for rock, one for country, one for opera, etc), but some words need tweaking in the phenomes, either volume or timing, and it would be fantastic if these controls could be part of the dictionaries. I’m sure things like this will be added to the program in the future, if we let them know.
> 
> Still, I’m not complaining. The program is incredible. There should be a special forum for people to share their spellings and phenomes with other users.


I would appreciate more examples like these, they’re tremendously helpful!


----------



## Soundbed

David Cuny said:


> Creating a formant filter that attenuates frequencies isn't that difficult, but you're _adding_ formats to a signal where none had previously existed.
> 
> _Shifting_ formants is a different matter, as it requires identifying where the formants are, and where you want them moved to. Plus, these formants aren't in static locations - they change over time. Here's a spectrogram from a post earlier in this thread, created in _Praat_. The blue line is pitch, and the red lines are what _Praat_ identifies as the formants:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note that the positions of the formants change over time, making things difficult.
> 
> I put together quick and dirty tool to see how feasible it would be to create a program that could shift the formants. I was probably too ambitious in what I was doing - simply _shifting_ the formants would have been a more reasonable task. Instead, I tried creating some _new_ formants. So perhaps I could still make it work...
> 
> Anyway, link to post.


Excellent points, thank you!

Yes, I wouldn't hope the product would add formants ... I was introducing the visual in order to help imagine an interface for control (changes).

Most MIDI -based performers don't think about dipthongs while constructing a performance / synthestration.

So, I was hoping to engage the imagination a bit ... if there was a way to represent the vowels that are already being sung (by the program) then change them, real-time, and record new ones ... possibly with an XY control pad ...? That was what I was hoping to communicate.

It would certainly be a challenge for some, but others might find it intuitive.

~

As a side note, your project looks interesting! (Synsinger)

I spent 80 hours a week recording and editing VO in a studio back in the 8-bit days, for interactive multimedia (as it was called) and I think it affected the way my brain processes language.

Basically, I was a human iZotope RX in today's terms, to remove spittle, quiet breaths, etc. And we edited sounds together to make the recorded words more intelligible when needed. I got proficient at "reading" the sounds on the screen, although I had the script for reference.

So, I'm fairly familiar with the way sound designer II > ProTools visually represents spoken word on the screen, including looking for certain identifiable consonants for orientation on the timeline, like T and S.

On occasion, I can accurately "read" other close sounds (a, e, m, n)... But, I have not needed to think about the *pitches* within the voiced or vocalized (non plosive, non sibilant) sounds. Obviously one can see frequency differences when close enough on the waveform, but I haven't found it useful for VO editing to care about those. Whereas I can see it's important for a vocal synthesizer.

Very cool! "As of this writing, _synSinger_ uses diphone synthesis – combining pre-recorded phonemes. But instead of working directly with audio samples, _synSinger_ analyzes the audio and stores the spectral envelope of the waveform. In theory, this allows seamless reconstruction of the audio with pitch shifting."


----------



## richiebee

Koyo said:


> https://rumble.com/v24me2g-the-eye-o...hurricane.html
> 
> Feedback on making the singing or anything else sound better is welcome!
> 
> - Singer: Solaria (Emma Crowley)
> - Piano: Pianoteq 8, Steinway model D
> - Upright bass: Ample Sound ABU
> - DAW: Reaper (Linux)


Piano playing sounds top notch to my ears. Vocal part sounds very unnatural in syllable emphasis, making the vocal line very awkward sounding. Are you fluent in English? If so, I would try and speak the lyrics, and get your music to flow in a similar way, by altering the rhythm to put the emphasis on the right syllables. If you're not fluent in English, I'd say this will be a challenge, and good luck to you. I can't imagine doing a song in anything other than my native language.


----------



## Koyo

richiebee said:


> Piano playing sounds top notch to my ears. Vocal part sounds very unnatural in syllable emphasis, making the vocal line very awkward sounding. Are you fluent in English? If so, I would try and speak the lyrics, and get your music to flow in a similar way, by altering the rhythm to put the emphasis on the right syllables. If you're not fluent in English, I'd say this will be a challenge, and good luck to you. I can't imagine doing a song in anything other than my native language.


Thank you for listening. My mother tongue is French but I am fluent enough in English. Can you give me a specific example where the emphasis is not put on the right syllable?
Are you suggesting changing the rythm of the melodic phrase? That's a challenge!
The melodic part is quite straightforward in the sense that every syllable has a note assigned to it. No "liaisons" between notes for a single syllable. Composing the melody first is limitative and the more syllables I have, the more words I can get so that the lyrics make a little more sense!
I have another version sung by a real singer. Perhaps the problem lies the simplistic rythm of melody.


----------



## Koyo

Soundbed said:


> Finding alternative, more phonetic spellings is certainly the first step.
> 
> Ultimately we'd want to be able to do some very stylistic vowel stuff, like...
> 
> "She doesn’t sing “wanna” or “want to.” She makes it sound more like “wah-oh-ooh-na.” " from


----------



## David Cuny

Soundbed said:


> So, I was hoping to engage the imagination a bit ... if there was a way to represent the vowels that are already being sung (by the program) then change them, real-time, and record new ones ... possibly with an XY control pad ...? That was what I was hoping to communicate.


And you did, I just don't think there's a control in _SynthV_ for those.

I'd _hoped the_ phoneme *Strength* option that would work like that, but nope. 

I know that there's software that allows morphing between two voices, but for that to work smoothly, you'd have to get the formants closely aligned. Otherwise you're just averaging the difference, which sounds more like adding two voices together.

But I wouldn't rule something like this out when in the future.


----------



## David Cuny

Koyo said:


> Thank you for listening. My mother tongue is French but I am fluent enough in English. Can you give me a specific example where the emphasis is not put on the right syllable?


I heard the same thing. Even though the phonemes are the same, the duration of the phonemes _isn't_ the same.

It's not simply the duration of the notes. The way a words is phrased shapes the perception of the duration. This isn't just the length of the vowels, but the length of the consonants, and the emphasis given to each phoneme.

For example, _"That's what you are"_.

When Nat sings _"that's what you"_, it's a triplet, each word the same length, clearly separated (using emphasis), lightly touched on as he ascends up.

When Kevin sings it, _"you"_ is shortened, which loses the feel of the triplet. Kevin has none of Nat's feeling of lightness or phrasing. Each syllable gets the same emphasis, which gives the singing a plodding feeling.

Plus, Kevin goes off-pitch - for example, on _"are" -_ which doesn't help.

Kevin sounds like a singer who's gotten instruction on how to sing notes, but doesn't feel the song's rhythm. He's also got no sense of musical dynamics.


----------



## Koyo

David Cuny said:


> I heard the same thing. Even though the phonemes are the same, the duration of the phonemes _isn't_ the same.
> 
> It's not simply the duration of the notes. The way a words is phrased shapes the perception of the duration. This isn't just the length of the vowels, but the length of the consonants, and the emphasis given to each phoneme.
> 
> For example, _"That's what you are"_.
> 
> When Nat sings _"that's what you"_, it's a triplet, each word the same length, clearly separated (using emphasis), lightly touched on as he ascends up.
> 
> When Kevin sings it, _"you"_ is shortened, which loses the feel of the triplet. Kevin has none of Nat's feeling of lightness or phrasing. Each syllable gets the same emphasis, which gives the singing a plodding feeling.
> 
> Plus, Kevin goes off-pitch - for example, on _"are" -_ which doesn't help.
> 
> Kevin sounds like a singer who's gotten instruction on how to sing notes, but doesn't feel the song's rhythm. He's also go no sense of musical dynamics.


Thank you for the reply. So just entering the words in Synth V just isn't enough, I understand. Is there a global slider or something that affects that specific parameter on the whole song? Fiddling with each syllable seems like a lot of work.


----------



## David Cuny

Koyo said:


> Is there a global slider or something that affects that specific parameter on the whole song? Fiddling with each syllable seems like a lot of work.


You mean this one? 






There are global parameters for adjusting values of the *Voice*, but the issues in this song would have to be addressed by - as you said - fiddling with each syllable that has an issue.

Duplicating a _specific way of singing a song_ isn't exactly trivial.


----------



## Quasar

Soundbed said:


> ...Next, having a sort of XY vowel & dipthong control would be helpful as well, to automate vowels that are extended, or for certain stylistic approaches...


This is a bloody fantastic idea.



David Cuny said:


> And you did, I just don't think there's a control in _SynthV_ for those.
> 
> I'd _hoped the_ phoneme *Strength* option that would work like that, but nope.


Killjoy! 

But what you say makes intuitive sense, and if I were a gambler I'd bet that your right.

There are any number of phoneme tricks, and I think if you're laborious enough you can get _almost_ any diphthong or single vowel to sound fairly close to what you want. But I'm not sure. I've been going down the rabbit hole of trying to imitate various conventions of pop rock singing, such as the often irritating tendency to sing 'love' as 'l-ooh-ooh-ooh-uh-uh-uh-v', and I've not yet come up with a way to duplicate this sense of phoned-in, generic pop star pain of unrequited affection.



David Cuny said:


> Kevin sounds like a singer who's gotten instruction on how to sing notes, but doesn't feel the song's rhythm. He's also go no sense of musical dynamics.


You described perfectly why I'm not a fan of Kevin, at least not in Instant Mode out of the box. But I can only imagine how difficult it must be to convey feeling when you're not actually a sentient being, so I'll cut him a bit of slack. I do think if we supply our own the emotive intention and render it competently, the voice bank is still usable. But Solaria provides a starting point that is light years better IMO.


----------



## richiebee

Koyo said:


> Thank you for listening. My mother tongue is French but I am fluent enough in English. Can you give me a specific example where the emphasis is not put on the right syllable?
> Are you suggesting changing the rythm of the melodic phrase? That's a challenge!
> The melodic part is quite straightforward in the sense that every syllable has a note assigned to it. No "liaisons" between notes for a single syllable. Composing the melody first is limitative and the more syllables I have, the more words I can get so that the lyrics make a little more sense!
> I have another version sung by a real singer. Perhaps the problem lies the simplistic rythm of melody.


So here are some examples from the first minute and a half...

0:34 - false SECURITY IN love (security and in are both problems in this one)
0:48 - all this IS fake
0:57 - lives are AT stake
1:03 - shelter from THE rain
1:08 - the EYE of THE hurricane
1:16 - UNDISTURBED is the center
1:23 - there swells the OBSERVER

Some of this is emphasis of the wrong word in the phrase. Particularly incidental words (is, at, the) shouldn't be the emphasis of the phrase (the first word and possibly the last, would be more appropriate). 

The longer words have the emphasis on the wrong phoneme. 

All this is fixable, and I think quite easily, some of it by simply moving notes that fall on strong beats, onto weak ones and vice versa. Some of it would need a bit of re-jiggling, but nothing too significant, I don't think.

I'd like to hear a real singer singing it so that we can confirm whether the problem is the source (the writing), or data entry in Synth-V.


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

David Cuny said:


> You mean this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are global parameters for adjusting values of the *Voice*, but the issues in this song would have to be addressed by - as you said - fiddling with each syllable that has an issue.
> 
> Duplicating a _specific way of singing a song_ isn't exactly trivial.


When I first started with SynthV I was surprised how easy it was to change some aspects of delivery to make things seem more human. In reality it's probably faster to have your Synthv do the phrasing and delivery correctly by adjusting a few sliders than to explain it to a human with a preconceived notion of how THEY think it should sound, then get them to perform the take correctly.

For example, on Unforgettable, on the first "That's" I would try something like reducing volume on the first T to maybe 90%, upping it on the 2nd to 105-110%, shortening it just a bit to compensate, then extend the "ah" and "ss", probably with the ss being a bit longer.

All of which would take about 10 seconds of moving sliders.

But with a real singer you'd either have to sing it to them and hope they're good listeners and can pick up on it, or say "start out a tiny bit softer and hit the second T a bit stronger but shorter. I want you the ah stretched out just a bit and the s at the end just a bit more".

It takes longer just to explain than it does to move the sliders and get synthv to do a whole new take. And in the real world they need a drink of water, they have to adjust their headphones, clear their throat, and do multiple takes until they get acceptable close to it.

So if you're complaining about fiddling with a few sliders to correct phrasing on a few words here and there, just realize how good you have it.


----------



## Soundbed

Spaces Are Okay said:


> When I first started with SynthV I was surprised how easy it was to change some aspects of delivery to make things seem more human. In reality it's probably faster to have your Synthv do the phrasing and delivery correctly by adjusting a few sliders than to explain it to a human with a preconceived notion of how THEY think it should sound, then get them to perform the take correctly.
> 
> For example, on Unforgettable, on the first "That's" I would try something like reducing volume on the first T to maybe 90%, upping it on the 2nd to 105-110%, shortening it just a bit to compensate, then extend the "ah" and "ss", probably with the ss being a bit longer.
> 
> All of which would take about 10 seconds of moving sliders.
> 
> But with a real singer you'd either have to sing it to them and hope they're good listeners and can pick up on it, or say "start out a tiny bit softer and hit the second T a bit stronger but shorter. I want you the ah stretched out just a bit and the s at the end just a bit more".
> 
> It takes longer just to explain than it does to move the sliders and get synthv to do a whole new take. And in the real world they need a drink of water, they have to adjust their headphones, clear their throat, and do multiple takes until they get acceptable close to it.
> 
> So if you're complaining about fiddling with a few sliders to correct phrasing on a few words here and there, just realize how good you have it.


Not to mention some live vocalists will get notes 1, 2 and three right then forget them by notes 3, 4 and 5. :D


----------



## Braveheart

I am a vocalist, and it’s way more convenient for me to sing my own stuff then try to adjust sliders to try to make a software voice bank sound half as convincing.


----------



## shotsi673

Koyo said:


> Thank you for the reply. So just entering the words in Synth V just isn't enough, I understand. Is there a global slider or something that affects that specific parameter on the whole song? Fiddling with each syllable seems like a lot of work.





David Cuny said:


> I heard the same thing. Even though the phonemes are the same, the duration of the phonemes _isn't_ the same.
> 
> It's not simply the duration of the notes. The way a words is phrased shapes the perception of the duration. This isn't just the length of the vowels, but the length of the consonants, and the emphasis given to each phoneme.
> 
> For example, _"That's what you are"_.
> 
> When Nat sings _"that's what you"_, it's a triplet, each word the same length, clearly separated (using emphasis), lightly touched on as he ascends up.
> 
> When Kevin sings it, _"you"_ is shortened, which loses the feel of the triplet. Kevin has none of Nat's feeling of lightness or phrasing. Each syllable gets the same emphasis, which gives the singing a plodding feeling.
> 
> Plus, Kevin goes off-pitch - for example, on _"are" -_ which doesn't help.
> 
> Kevin sounds like a singer who's gotten instruction on how to sing notes, but doesn't feel the song's rhythm. He's also go no sense of musical dynamics.





Spaces Are Okay said:


> When I first started with SynthV I was surprised how easy it was to change some aspects of delivery to make things seem more human. In reality it's probably faster to have your Synthv do the phrasing and delivery correctly by adjusting a few sliders than to explain it to a human with a preconceived notion of how THEY think it should sound, then get them to perform the take correctly.
> 
> For example, on Unforgettable, on the first "That's" I would try something like reducing volume on the first T to maybe 90%, upping it on the 2nd to 105-110%, shortening it just a bit to compensate, then extend the "ah" and "ss", probably with the ss being a bit longer.
> 
> All of which would take about 10 seconds of moving sliders.
> 
> But with a real singer you'd either have to sing it to them and hope they're good listeners and can pick up on it, or say "start out a tiny bit softer and hit the second T a bit stronger but shorter. I want you the ah stretched out just a bit and the s at the end just a bit more".
> 
> It takes longer just to explain than it does to move the sliders and get synthv to do a whole new take. And in the real world they need a drink of water, they have to adjust their headphones, clear their throat, and do multiple takes until they get acceptable close to it.
> 
> So if you're complaining about fiddling with a few sliders to correct phrasing on a few words here and there, just realize how good you have it.


Indeed! I agree, Synth V is an amazing boon for any songwriter wanting to translate the melodies in their head to the song with a competent and flexible singer. One thing I would add is the importance of “using your ears”. If it doesn’t sound right it most likely isn’t. This is what I have been finding when I think a melody should go a certain way but Solaria, in this case, tells me I’m wrong. And Kevin tells me he just can’t do it the same way. The best part of synth V are the nuances available to tweak the performance.
I have attached a “work in progress” with both Solaria and Kevin singing a melody together. NB: please excuse the accompaniment, it’s still being formulated with basic accompaniment. PS. The singing finishes after the bridge.


----------



## ScarletJerry

I stand by the statement that I made several posts ago - Synth V can sound OK out of the box, but you really need to spend time tuning and adjusting the voices to get realistic results.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Spaces Are Okay

shotsi673 said:


> Indeed! I agree, Synth V is an amazing boon for any songwriter wanting to translate the melodies in their head to the song with a competent and flexible singer. One thing I would add is the importance of “using your ears”. If it doesn’t sound right it most likely isn’t. This is what I have been finding when I think a melody should go a certain way but Solaria, in this case, tells me I’m wrong. And Kevin tells me he just can’t do it the same way. The best part of synth V are the nuances available to tweak the performance.
> I have attached a “work in progress” with both Solaria and Kevin singing a melody together. NB: please excuse the accompaniment, it’s still being formulated with basic accompaniment. PS. The singing finishes after the bridge.


About half of the work I've done with synth v so far are pieces were I had the music and the melody down years ago. I wrote lyrics based on the melody and for years I heard them sung that way in my head (in a female voice) based on those notes combined with those words.

Then I used Synth V to build a vocal track and discovered while it sounded close, it didn't sound right. Over the years my brain had made adjustments to the timing of the melody based on the lyrics, and they didn't match what synthv was doing. So instead of assuming synth v was wrong I started bumping notes around, some forward, some back, stretching out passages, chopping some up, and after some tweaking it sounds really close to what I've been hearing for years (minus the vocal fry I hope they add in the future).

And I did all this while learning a program that is frankly poorly documented. In the future as I use it more everything should get easier, and if the program keeps getting improved that should help as well.


----------



## odod

Playlist demoing all synth V voicebank in various languages

Japanese : 

English : 

Chinese : 

Vocal Modes :


----------



## richiebee

Braveheart said:


> I am a vocalist, and it’s way more convenient for me to sing my own stuff then try to adjust sliders to try to make a software voice bank sound half as convincing.


One would hope so. I don't think Synth V is aimed at singers.


----------



## Arran

I've just Bought Solaria from the Dreamtonics site - $89.99. It's worth noting for UK customers that Dreamtonics doesn't add $18 tax unlike the Eclipsed Sounds checkout.


----------



## Fraxer01

richiebee said:


> One would hope so. I don't think Synth V is aimed at singers.


And even for singers it might be useful in some occasions. Either to layer stuff in the back or just to use another voice without needing to hire someone.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Fraxer01 said:


> And even for singers it might be useful in some occasions. Either to layer stuff in the back or just to use another voice without needing to hire someone.


Or if you want to use Hataori's RealVoice scripts to change your gender and/or range, or generally just change your voice. Of course blatantly artificial pitch and formant shifting has been popular for at least a decade, and is less time consuming, though it's a bit stale by now and I've never particularly liked it (YMMV...).

Getting out and setting up one of my relatively expensive condenser microphones along with good preamp, Kaotica eyeball and/or Aston Halo, and gobos in my partially treated apartment is a hassle. I do always have an old SM58 plugged in and ready to go whenever inspiration strikes, but I don't like the recording quality... however it does capture the pitch well.


----------



## ThomasS

Making a Singlish Dictionary

I've decided to make a Singlish dictionary for Synth V, using its built-in dictionary with a few enhancements. Comments by Soundbed, David Cuny, richiebee, Spaces Are Okay, Quasar, and a bunch of others, have stressed the importance of getting singer-like pronunciation, which the program is capable of, but note-by-note fiddling takes a lot of time _(not to mention tweaking the pitch curves)_ - so I thought I might see how to automate the process.

I got to thinking about this from Soundbed's ideas and links, and was curious when David Cuny wrote:


David Cuny said:


> When Nat sings _"that's what you"_, it's a triplet, each word the same length, clearly separated (using emphasis), lightly touched on as he ascends up.
> 
> When Kevin sings it, _"you"_ is shortened, which loses the feel of the triplet. Kevin has none of Nat's feeling of lightness or phrasing. Each syllable gets the same emphasis, which gives the singing a plodding feeling.


I was surprised because the rhythm of Kevin's performance was built on Melodyne's sophisticated note analysis, converted to midi, so it had to be rhythmically identical to Nat.

here is Nat
View attachment That's what you are - Nat.mp3

here is Kevin (via Melodyne)
View attachment That's what you are - Kevin1.mp3

They are pretty much identical as to where the syllables strike in time. I stacked them together in my daw, and they are a near-perfect double rhythmically. So what was David hearing? I think it was that he heard Nat stress the first syllable (_"That's"_) whereas Kevin makes _"what_" the strong emphasis, which destroys the triplet feel David heard. So it was a _meter _difference rather than an actual timing change. But meter is part of rhythm. This shows how subtle vocal performances are, and such nuances need to be considered. I could fix this, but it was only a quick test.

I listened to the two a few times, and then realized that Kevin doesn't have the same accent as Nat, so whatever he does will always sound different, and we will hear it as being inferior (or at least different), even if the notes strike at the same time.

Soundbed's posts and links about pronunciation, phonemes and formants were enlightening.

So I decided to check a few obvious pronunciation norms by soloing vocals and experimenting how well Synth V could handle them. A few examples:

_I've got you... (Frank)_
View attachment Iv'e got you - Frank.mp3

He doesn't pronounce "got you" but something like "gah chew" or "gah jew" or perhaps "got chew"

The word "you" is in a thousand songs, because they're often _speaking to someone_, and many vocalists sing "you" as "chew" or "jew" when it follows a word ending in "T" or "D" ("can't you," "won't you," "did you," etc.) A few examples:

View attachment betcha wondrin - marvin.mp3

View attachment that your really - Frank.mp3


Or, for example, a lot of singers don't pronounce their "R's" - even Americans who normally do so in speech.

Frank doesn't sing "ear" but rather "eah"
View attachment my ear - Frank.mp3


Aretha doesn't sing "tired" but rather "tie-yud"
View attachment tired - aretha.mp3


I recorded dozens of other examples for different words, but this forum only allows seven sound-files, so I will leave it for now. You get the idea.

I am cataloging common singer-pronunciations into a single repository that can be automatically incorporated into Synth V, and after experimentation here is what I have come up with:

1) Prefer to use the bulk lyric entry (Ctrl-L) to enter lyrics in whole phrases, or even whole songs. (This is actually a better method anyway, but particularly helpful with the Singlish Dictionary.)

2) All words are automatically broken up, and we never enter multiple-syllable words followed by "+" - allowing Synth V to decide how to break and pronounce them. That is too important a task to leave to the program. The Singlish Dictionary will automatically break the words for you.

3) Type all your words, or download them from the net, in exact English, with correct spellings and punctuation.

4) Run the words through a lyric hyphenator (like *this one*) and copy the file and paste it into Microsoft Word.

5) Run the Singlish Dictionary macro (I am writing), which will automatically remove the hyphen-dashes, and respell all the words according to real singer's pronunciations. The entries have to be added one by one, but it is easy in Visual Basic to keep adding pronunciations as you think of them, and the dictionary will grow over time. Whenever you find a pronunciation that works in one of your projects, you can save the word in the macro, and the next time you type that word it will phonetically respell it your way. Different users who are skilled in Visual Basic can contribute re-spellings (like a wiki project) or just specify the changes for others to add. Over time, it will be a great resource to start with pretty good singer pronunciations, which can be further tweaked according to the song and voice. There can be more than one macro for different styles or accents (country, rock, British accent, etc.)

6) The macro can call up any combination of phonemes available in Synth V, simply by adding a caret "^" in front of the word. It's not possible in Microsoft Word to spell the exact pronunciation you need with the normal English alphabet - as precisely as phonemes - but if you want a specific combination of phonemes, just put "^" in front of the word in the macro - and enter that word in your Synth V dictionary with the phonemes you want. Say, for example, you want the word "butt" always pronounced as "booty." _(I don't know why you'd want this, but it's just an example) _All you have to do is enter ^Butt in the macro, and enter ^Butt in the Synth V dictionary with the phonemes "b uw dx iy." If you always want this, you don't have to type the ^, just type "butt" normally and the macro will automatically change every "butt' all the time, or you could have options (see below). The macro can even change words only when they come before or after other words, or on a case by case basis. "You" can be pronounced as "chew" or "jew" only when it follows a word ending in "T" or "D" but will be normal in all other cases.

7) Finally, if you want a choice of alternatives for any word or syllable, simply make a new entry with another caret (^) before it, and add the caret-ed word to your Synth V dictionary with different phonemes. Say you like to pronounce "new" as "nyoo" or "nee-ooh" (which Synth V defaults to [n uw]) - then you could leave as is. But, say you want to sing it as "noo' without the little y in the middle (as some singers do, like my daughter) then you can add "^new" to the dictionary with those phonemes. You can have as many "new"'s as you want. new ^new ^^new ^^^new and so forth. Whenever you don't like the sound of a word, just add a caret before it, (or remove one) and it will give you an alternative choice. 

Everything I've described is the beginning of a work-in-progress. But I have tested each step described above, and it all works. All I have to do is start adding re-spellings to the macro. I will be happy to share it freely when ready, and if anyone wants to help identify common singer pronunciations, let me know.


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## odod

Enjoy this, I just randomly made one of my fave Southpark tune (unfinished)

View attachment Lets fight love.mp4


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## AnhrithmonGelasma

ThomasS said:


> Or, for example, a lot of singers don't pronounce their "R's" - even Americans who normally do so in speech.
> 
> Frank doesn't sing "ear" but rather "eah"
> View attachment my ear - Frank.mp3


I hear a pretty clear "r" at the end of that. In many cases while the postvocalic "r" itself may be barely pronounced there's coarticulation of the vowel with the "r"; it substantially changes the way the vowel is pronounced.

Very interesting project though.


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## Loïc D

ThomasS said:


> Making a Singlish Dictionary
> 
> I've decided to make a Singlish dictionary for Synth V, using its built-in dictionary with a few enhancements.


Funny, singlish, to me, is the english spoken in Singapore.
It’s quite simple, you need to add _-lah_ at the end of every sentence.
« I got youuuu under my skin_-lah »_


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## ThomasS

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> I hear a pretty clear "r" at the end of that. In many cases while the postvocalic "r" itself may be barely pronounced there's coarticulation of the vowel with the "r"; it substantially changes the way the vowel is pronounced.
> 
> Very interesting project though.


Yes, of course, it's not what we hear or don't hear as an "R" that matters. Its what Synth V decides to pronounce a word like "ear" as a default. While there is a difference in understanding what an "R" is in American, British, or different parts of the USA, if you type this phrase (spelling the normal "ear") in Synth V you will get nothing like what Frank Sinatra sang here. So we have to change its default in some way. We want the mouth-shape of the "E" vowel heading towards the mouth-shape of an "R" (what you call _coarticulation_) which is normal for pop singers, and less common in classical singers (who try to keep their vowels pure and not drift towards the oncoming consonant.) It is quite clear that his "E" vowel is _heading _towards the mouth-shape of an American "R" but never quite gets there. This fools us into hearing the anticipated "R" but he really only makes it to an "Ah" in this case. I don't know exactly how Synth V modifies vowels, but there are settings to change the relative duration and volume of separate phonemes, so with experimentation I am sure it can be approximated. However, at this stage the Synth V user dictionary only allows you to specify the sequence of phonemes, but not their relative duration or volume. If they were to add this to the dictionary in the future the program would be fantastic.


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## bosone

this thing is progressing very fast. what will we reach in one year??? 

meanwhile, i have ended my cover of "misty mountains cold" from "the hobbit" using Asterian. sorry for the multiple posting but i was making minor revision and corrections... Now i have reached a peak and i think i could be satisfied by mixing, sound, and voice.


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## richiebee

Things move quickly on this thread, so apologies if this has been mentioned recently, but here's a tip for new folks (or anyone who doesn't know it). We talk about butting notes up against each other to make delivery smoother, and allow the singers to use their own interpretation. I believe the default behaviour is that when you slide the start or end of a note over another one, it overlaps and greys out one, indicating that there's a conflict that needs to be fixed. However, there is an option in Settings for "Overlap-less note resizing". It's the third option under the Editor heading (Settings goes General > Audio > Editor...). This means when one note butts against another, and continues, it shortens the note being butted up against so that they are still "legato" and don't overlap.


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## ThomasS

richiebee said:


> I believe the default behavior is that when you slide the start or end of a note over another one, it overlaps and greys out one, indicating that there's a conflict that needs to be fixed. However, there is an option in Settings for "Overlap-less note resizing".


I only recently bought the program, and this had already been checked as ON by default, so I never knew I could turn it OFF. I'm not sure why it is ever needed OFF since no single voice is polyphonic, but it shows how thoughtful and capable the program is.


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## Quasar

ThomasS said:


> Making a Singlish Dictionary


Awesome idea, thanks!
I grabbed the snippet from Unforgettable here because I wanted to play with Kevin, the emphasis and particularly the triplet in the phrase, which led me to two tangentially related questions:

1) If, for whatever reason, I want to have a space between, for instance, _that's_ and _what_, by slightly shortening the end of the first word, it garbles the beginning consonant of the word that follows. It seems to have to do with the various parameters, which can be redrawn, but it's confusing. If you move the note far enough away, the consonant becomes normal again. Which leads to my second question:

2) If you look at, say, the vibrato markings, you'll see some very nice oscillating waves, but I can't redraw smooth shapes with the mouse. If I try and redo any parameter line drawings they just turn into horrible scribble that makes the voice sound weird. Is there any trick for drawing smooth lines and curves?


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## Quasar

ThomasS said:


> I only recently bought the program, and this had already been checked as ON by default, so I never knew you I could turn it OFF. I'm not sure why it is ever needed OFF since no single voice is polyphonic, but it shows how thoughtful and capable the program is.


I had this on by default too. It's also nice that MIDI keyboard entry is monophonic so you don't have to worry about overlapping notes when recording them in.


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## David Cuny

Quasar said:


> Is there any trick for drawing smooth lines and curves?


In the *Parameters* toolbar, there is a toggle button for *Multi-Edit*, *Freehand* and *Line* tools:






Using the *Multi-Edit *tool, you can double-click to insert curve points one at a time, then select and drag them if necessary.

Using the *Pencil* tool will draw freehand control points, while using the *Line* tool creates two control points between the start and end of your line.

You can tell _SynthV _how to interpolate between the *Parameters*:






The first option is linear, the second is cosine interpolation, and the third option is cubic (a modified Camull-Rom spline).

You can also select points in the curve and press *Alt+S* or select *Simplify Parameters *from the *Modify* drop-down menu to simplify a messy curve:






After that, you can manually edit the control points as described above.


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## mothershout

Braveheart said:


> I am a vocalist, and it’s way more convenient for me to sing my own stuff then try to adjust sliders to try to make a software voice bank sound half as convincing.


I am *not* a vocalist, and it's immensely more convenient to use SynthV to create lead and backing vocals than to try and do it myself! And much cheaper than hiring singers.

Nearly every single person (including some musicians) who has heard the recent tracks I've made with SynthV has asked me who's singing, and has then been amazed to hear that it's a synthesizer.


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## Quasar

David Cuny said:


> In the *Parameters* toolbar, there is a toggle button for *Multi-Edit*, *Freehand* and *Line* tools:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using the *Multi-Edit *tool, you can double-click to insert curve points one at a time, then select and drag them if necessary.
> 
> Using the *Pencil* tool will draw freehand control points, while using the *Line* tool creates two control points between the start and end of your line.
> 
> You can tell _SynthV _how to interpolate between the *Parameters*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first option is linear, the second is cosine interpolation, and the third option is cubic (a modified Camull-Rom spline).
> 
> You can also select points in the curve and press *Alt+S* or select *Simplify Parameters *from the *Modify* drop-down menu to simplify a messy curve:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, you can manually edit the control points as described above.


I made a pdf out of your detailed response for reference and practice. Thanks much.


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## Quasar

mothershout said:


> I am *not* a vocalist, and it's immensely more convenient to use SynthV to create lead and backing vocals than to try and do it myself! And much cheaper than hiring singers.
> 
> Nearly every single person (including some musicians) who has heard the recent tracks I've made with SynthV has asked me who's singing, and has then been amazed to hear that it's a synthesizer.


I sing like a god. The only problem is that the god I sing like happens to be a really terrible singer.


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## ThomasS

mothershout said:


> every single person (including some musicians) who has heard the recent tracks I've made with SynthV has asked me who's singing...


Maybe all your friends are only artificially intelligent.


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## ThomasS

Quasar said:


> If, for whatever reason, I want to have a space between, for instance, _that's_ and _what_, by slightly shortening the end of the first word, it garbles the beginning consonant of the word that follows. It seems to have to do with the various parameters, which can be redrawn, but it's confusing.


If you want a smooth gap between two words, put an extra "word" between the two disconnected words - butted up on both sides. It doesn't matter what you label the word - just change the phoneme (above) to "sil" and it will sing that word as a silence. In theory you should be able to pitch the silence up or down to change the curves of the surrounding notes.

If you use this function often, I suggest you put in your dictionary the following:

Word = "/"
Phoneme = "pau"

That way you only have to hit one key (make it whatever you like) instead of manually altering the phoneme each time.

Of course, you could also put in "br" (for breath) and this might work too, but singers wouldn't usually breath in such a small gap. According to the program, you should also be able to put in the phoneme "pau" instead of "sil," but this is not quite working at present. For me, at least, the phenome "pau" changes the behavior a bit, like if you delete it, it puts in a line where the gap should be, but it doesn't affect the playback like "sil" does. This makes me think it is a bug that will be fixed, and will ultimately be better because it will visually show the pauses. Maybe someone more experienced here can tell us how to get "pau" to playback correctly, but for now "sil" as a silent phoneme works.


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## ScarletJerry

Thanks for this suggestion, but I'm not sure that I understand something. Are these all essentially the same?

sil
Word = "/"
Phoneme = "pau"

I know that "sil" means silence, but I'm not sure about the other two. Synth V definitely needs a comprehensive user manual!


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## Quasar

ThomasS said:


> If you want a smooth gap between two words, put an extra "word" between the two disconnected words - butted up on both sides. It doesn't matter what you label the word - just change the phoneme (above) to "sil" and it will sing that word as a silence. In theory you should be able to pitch the silence up or down to change the curves of the surrounding notes.
> 
> If you use this function often, I suggest you put in your dictionary the following:
> 
> Word = "/"
> Phoneme = "pau"
> 
> That way you only have to hit one key (make it whatever you like) instead of manually altering the phoneme each time.
> 
> Of course, you could also put in "br" (for breath) and this might work too, but singers wouldn't usually breath in such a small gap. According to the program, you should also be able to put in the phoneme "pau" instead of "sil," but this is not quite working at present. For me, at least, the phenome "pau" changes the behavior a bit, like if you delete it, it puts in a line where the gap should be, but it doesn't affect the playback like "sil" does. This makes me think it is a bug that will be fixed, and will ultimately be better because it will visually show the pauses. Maybe someone more experienced here can tell us how to get "pau" to playback correctly, but for now "sil" as a silent phoneme works.


Really cool, thank you. I actually tried the BR insertion, but yes, it creates an out-of-place respiratory action. I had no idea the the SIL (that you see as a prompt) was also a usable phoneme, and haven't been aware of PAU at all and will continue to explore. As has already been said, this thing - while perhaps buggy - is amazingly feature-rich and deep.


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## ThomasS

ScarletJerry said:


> Thanks for this suggestion, but I'm not sure that I understand something. Are these all essentially the same?
> 
> sil
> Word = "/"
> Phoneme = "pau"
> 
> I know that "sil" means silence, but I'm not sure about the other two. Synth V definitely needs a comprehensive user manual!


Sorry, I didn’t make myself entirely clear. Step-by-step, if you want a single keystroke to enter silences, do the following:

Click the dictionary icon on the right (5th from the top, above the diagonal arrow)
Under “current dictionary” you may already have one, but if not - hit “new” and give it a name (like “my dictionary”)
Now, in your new dictionary, look at the very bottom. Below Word - put in “/”
Below Phenome - put in “pau”
Make sure to hit set
Now whenever you enter “/” as a word it will automatically be a silence.


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## Semproser

lastburai said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have been following the development of synthesizer V since before this thread was even created. I never created a topic about it or anything like that on here but every now and again I saw this thread pop up on this forum.
> 
> Initially when I was looking at synthesizer V I was looking at vocaloid as well. I downloaded the synthesizer V basic version 2 years ago with Elenor forte but in the end I never continued with it and so I got neither synthesizer V or vocaloid and instead hired a female singer at that time.
> 
> Recently I have a few songs that I want singing again but I have limited funds and with the latest developments of synthesizer V I decided to purchase as it seems a lot better than what it was before, especially with Solaria.
> 
> After using it for a few days it is pretty good, Solaria with synthesizer V is a good combination. I can get some cool results.
> 
> These are the things I noticed from using it last few days
> 
> -To be able to snap to the grid in triplets use 1/6 Quarter in the SNAP panel
> 
> This applies to other voices as well not to just Solaria I think
> 
> To make Solaria breath before a word type - br
> To make Solaria exhale after a word type - hh
> 
> Some words that caused me trouble
> 
> Tears the AI pronounces it as in share, fair, tears = t eh r z
> 
> I wanted tears as in fear, sheer, tears = t ih r z
> 
> Appear - the p is too pronounced so I lowered the strength of p to 20%
> 
> These features could be in Synthesizer V but I don't think they are.
> 
> -Things I would like which I don’t think is currently in the program is while synthesizer V is in my DAW that I can deactivate the auto scroll function as it currently auto scrolls while playing the track when I am making edits which is annoying. In Cubase there is a tab to turn on or off auto scroll in the key editor I want that function in synthesizer V more than anything else right now.
> 
> -To be able to Zoom in or out of the vertical plane in the piano roll editor I would like to be able to make the piano roll graphic more smaller.
> 
> -To be able to make tempo RAMP changes using a node base system like in Cubase currently tempo ramps are not possible only tempo changes are from what I can tell.


I just found the auto scroll:
- Settings (cog panel on the right)
- Editor section
- Disable: Follow playheads during playback


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## soulofsound

ThomasS said:


> There are a lot of Synth V covers and copies of known recordings, so a lot of hobbyists use the program for this purpose. That is not what I want, but I was curious that while some copies are quite good, the majority leave me underwhelmed, because the timing is too stiff and quantized, even when the other parameters are well-done.
> 
> So I thought I would experiment to see the best way to properly duplicate an existing recording with the type of vocal timing that we expect to hear from a live singer.
> 
> FIRST METHOD
> 
> The first method I tried was to let Melodyne generate a midi file of the original vocal. The notes and word-breaks needed tweaking, but the timing of the midi file is exactly what the original singer sang. After a bit of tweaking, I loaded the midi file into Synth V and assigned a singer and typed in the words. I hit duplicate-track three times and assigned each to a different singer. The whole process was very quick, 20 – 30 mins max.
> 
> View attachment Kevin - Unforgettable.mp3
> 
> Kevin - Unforgettable
> View attachment Solaria - Unforgettable.mp3
> 
> Solaria - Unforgettable
> View attachment Asterian - Unforgettable.mp3
> 
> Asterian - Unforgettable
> View attachment Natalie - Unforgettable.mp3
> 
> Natalie - Unforgettable
> 
> The timing is exactly what Nat King Cole sang, but the expression, slides, vibrato, etc. is 100% Synth V instant mode. Each singer is different because they have their own AI parameters, but this was one midi file and one track (just duplicated). This was a good test to compare the four English singers. But this old-fashioned crooning style is well-suited to these voices, so out of the box you can get this style. For rock or country or blues or heavy metal, etc. a lot of work would have to be done, and I don’t know if it's worth it if new voices are coming to do that instantly.
> 
> SECOND METHOD
> 
> In any case, I tried the Praat & Hataori method of duplicating the pitch curve of the original vocal, following the instructions HERE. It took me longer (I was learning how to do it) and I could only get one verse before giving up.
> 
> View attachment Kevin - Desperado.mp3
> 
> Kevin - Desperado
> 
> Now I would have expected that the pitch curve of Don Henley of the Eagles would have made Kevin sound more convincing, but it appears that the pronunciation and timing and volume of phenomes and other parameters still make this sound unrealistic. Also, the Praat/Hataori method needs a lot of work to get it right. Of course it can be done because I've heard others do it, but not for me. I just wanted to see how it worked fairly instantly.
> 
> I wonder what others have experienced with either of the two methods, or any other.


Natalie shines here.


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## soulofsound

Braveheart said:


> I am a vocalist, and it’s way more convenient for me to sing my own stuff then try to adjust sliders to try to make a software voice bank sound half as convincing.


The singer thread is down the hall.


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## Spaces Are Okay

richiebee said:


> Things move quickly on this thread, so apologies if this has been mentioned recently, but here's a tip for new folks (or anyone who doesn't know it). We talk about butting notes up against each other to make delivery smoother, and allow the singers to use their own interpretation. I believe the default behaviour is that when you slide the start or end of a note over another one, it overlaps and greys out one, indicating that there's a conflict that needs to be fixed. However, there is an option in Settings for "Overlap-less note resizing". It's the third option under the Editor heading (Settings goes General > Audio > Editor...). This means when one note butts against another, and continues, it shortens the note being butted up against so that they are still "legato" and don't overlap.


I had a weird quirk yesterday where there were several words running together. I wanted to shorten word 1 and stretch out word 2, but instead word 2 ended up coming out shorter too. Switched it back to where it was and though the note was shorter it became longer again.

Just one of the many quirks of synth V. still better (and cheaper) than paying for a singer.


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## ThomasS

soulofsound said:


> Natalie shines here.


Yes, I noticed that when compared side-by-side against the same track, Natalie cuts much better than the others, with a beautiful tone. She is bright without sounding like a thirteen-year-old girl which some of the others do. I would use her a lot for solos, but unfortunately her AI settings are not as smooth as Kevin and Solaria (especially her warbly vibrato) so I have to learn how to fix that, because her tone is fantastic. Each voice needs to be studied within a mix to see how to eq them to suit their tone, which is the same for different real singers.  Asterian needs the most work to sit in a track because his frequencies are low enough to be blocked by a lot of track instruments. You don't really want to brighten him so much that he loses his character, so it is best to use a sidechain compressor on the track(s) to clear space for him (like trackspacer, soothe2, Sonible Smart:comp, Neutron, etc.) I've tried this on him, and helping him stand out really makes him usuable (as well as taming his excessive vibrato)


----------



## ScarletJerry

ThomasS said:


> Sorry, I didn’t make myself entirely clear. Step-by-step, if you want a single keystroke to enter silences, do the following:
> 
> Click the dictionary icon on the right (5th from the top, above the diagonal arrow)
> Under “current dictionary” you may already have one, but if not - hit “new” and give it a name (like “my dictionary”)
> Now, in your new dictionary, look at the very bottom. Below Word - put in “/”
> Below Phenome - put in “pau”
> Make sure to hit set
> Now whenever you enter “/” as a word it will automatically be a silence.


Thanks. Your directions are very clear. I wish there was a place where there are other commands that are not documented (as far as I know).


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## ScarletJerry

ThomasS said:


> Yes, I noticed that when compared side-by-side against the same track, Natalie cuts much better than the others, with a beautiful tone. She is bright without sounding like a thirteen-year-old girl which some of the others do. I would use her a lot for solos, but unfortunately her AI settings are not as smooth as Kevin and Solaria (especially her warbly vibrato) so I have to learn how to fix that, because her tone is fantastic. Each voice needs to be studied within a mix to see how to eq them to suit their tone, which is the same for different real singers.  Asterian needs the most work to sit in a track because his frequencies are low enough to be blocked by a lot of track instruments. You don't really want to brighten him so much that he loses his character, so it is best to use a sidechain compressor on the track(s) to clear space for him (like trackspacer, soothe2, Sonible Smart:comp, Neutron, etc.) I've tried this on him, and helping him stand out really makes him usuable (as well as taming his excessive vibrato)


I'm on the fence about getting Natalie. I agree that I like her tone and she would be a nice complement to Solaria, but I do hear her excessive vibrato, but could be corrected, right?


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## ThomasS

ScarletJerry said:


> I'm on the fence about getting Natalie.


Probably stay on the fence for the moment. She's the best sounding of the English singing women (and argueably the best sounding overall) but until there is an update to her shaky vibrato and pitch AI she is a pain in the buttocks to make work. If you have plenty of time to tweak, melodyne and massage, she can be great, but if you want something quick she is not your girl. If anyone has found a way to quickly fix her pitch and vibrato, please speak up.


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## Knute5

Markrs said:


> No voices can do operatic at the moment. The closest is Asterian when he does Theatrical.


Asterian definitely opens up the door re theater/opera/choir and instantly has me waiting/hoping for a female equivalent. hell the SAT family to go with that Bass.


----------

