# Predatory capitalism



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 12, 2012)

Okay Mitt, I'm in a quiet room discussing the politics of envy.

Oh, and by the way: f you.



http://robertreich.org/post/15627255844

The Bain of Capitalism - Robert Reich

Excerpt:

"Where has Newt been for the last thirty years? Leveraged buyouts became part of traditional capitalism in the 1980s when enterprising financiers began borrowing piles of money, often at high interest rates, to buy up the stock of ongoing companies they believe undervalued. They’d back the loans with the company assets, then typically sell off divisions and slim payrolls, and resell the company to the public at a higher share price – pocketing the gains.

It’s a good deal for the financiers (the $25 billion buyout of RJR-Nabisco in 1988 netted the partners of Kohlberg, Kravis, and Roberts around $70 million each – and most of Mitt Romney’s estimated $200 million fortune comes from the same maneuvers), but not always for the company or its workers.

Some workers lose their jobs when the company downsizes. Others, when the company, now laden with debt, can’t meet its payments to creditors and has to go into bankruptcy. According to the Wall Street Journal, of 77 companies Bain invested in during Romney’s tenure there, 22 percent either filed for bankruptcy or closed their doors by end of eighth year after Bain’s investment.

But, hey, this is American capitalism – at least as it’s been practiced for the past three decades. Is Newt proposing to ban leveraged buyouts? Or limit the amount of debt a company can take on? Or prevent financiers – or even CEOs and management teams – from taking a public company private and then reselling it to the public at a higher price?

None of the above."


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 12, 2012)

Job creators.


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## midphase (Jan 12, 2012)

I am 100% positive that once Mitt gets the nom and shifts his attention to the national election...all of a sudden he'll be much more centrist and pro-low income people.

He's such a fake...he just wants to be able to tell everyone he's the president...so he'll say and do whatever it takes to appease whomever. He has no spine...no integrity...in short he's a douche!


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## midphase (Jan 12, 2012)

BTW...I think Ron Paul is completely insane...however I do have to respect his determination to stick to his platform come hell or high water!


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## chimuelo (Jan 12, 2012)

Well we need some wealthy Liberal form of Capitalism to balance the wealthy Conservative techniques Reich discusses on his " opinion " blog.

I like Harry Reids' form of Capitalism, as it's us poor suckers that he sticks it to for enlarging his various offshore and local bank accounts.
How about that over budget ( as usual ) new Bridge we didn't need by the already perfectly built Hoover Dam....? Stimulus money, shovel ready jobs, ( I think 48 guys from the various Locals here were employed there ) and a great profit for the protector of the little people.

You see the Liberals were the Super Majority at the time, so they could pick and choose which Bankers and CEO's they liked and made them elidgable for stimulus and bail outs. 
They also knew where every public/ Federal job was being built so they could buy the land in advance for dirt cheap, then sell it back to us.

Harry only made a mere 1.4 million profit from that, won't hear about that in the news, you have to actually look into the Las Vegas Sun or local news here to see what our " representative " does for the little people.

So Liberal Capitalists are much smarter than guys like Romney who take private money.
They get a no interest loan from a Bank they just happened to bail out, then turn around and sell that property back to the Federal Government for a profit.

Yeah those stupid private sector guys actually take a risk. Much wiser having insider information when you know the game in advance and know the tax payers are helpless to stop you, go for it.

OK.....lets hear about another evil Conserative Capitalist and I'll add the proper balance as I have a huge list of super wealthy Liberals who went to OWS and tried to pretend they didn't have accounts at many firms there, and pass ( sold for IPO's ) the laws on which they operate under....

I have many Conservatives too.
Tell you what, list a wealthy Liberal thief who never see's jailtime for the crimes they commit, and I'll throw a Conservative under the Bus for you.

I really have some good stuff about Corzines transfers of capital prior to the " disappearance " of 1.2 Billion dollars. Also rumor has it there's a pardon waiting for him, since he too is a protector of the little people.....

It's about time we have some more bashing of the elites threads.
I grow weary of worshipping developers and evil Corporations who make our hardware.......

I agree Ron Paul is whacky.
But has the balls to speak the truth about who really sits in the chairs at ClubFed, and also wants our soldiers back home, and he also served in Vietnam, so he has earned his right to be whacky.

Most DC elites are very brave though, and promise to fight until the last drop of your sons and daughters Blood.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 12, 2012)

Ron Paul is the only politician I know of who speaks out about the consequences and potential consequences of us having an empire. While I come to most of the same conclusions he does from a different angle, he does have that right.

However, go to www.RonPaul.com and click on Issues. To me it doesn't matter that he sticks to his principles, for one simple reason: they're wrong.


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## chimuelo (Jan 12, 2012)

Funny thing is all of the young people that are attracted to Paul.
Seems like they even know a vote for a Liberal or Consevative is a vote for the Federal Reserve and it's board members.
Goldman Sachs, Barclays, DuPont, OPEC, Monsanto, Bank Of China....
Can't blame them really, they are the ones who will spill their blood for the elites, while their kids go to private schools, and wouldn't dare think of a Union run day care center for them..... :lol: 

We are always being scared about China's strength and future stake in the world game. Truth is the board members own a huge chunk of CHinese manufacturing, and just like DC I am sure their money has also infected key members of their military....

This is why I feel safe, and also why America can invade anytime and anywhere and never worry about China or Saudi Arabia doing anything, afterall the Strait of Hormuz being opened benefits China, so does the Libyan Crude Oil that flows through the Suez to them thanks to us....


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## snowleopard (Jan 12, 2012)

I too expect Romney to flip flop again once he gets the nomination. He's been doing that his entire career whenever it's expedient. Why stop now? 

The sad part is, I don't see much difference no matter whether he gets in there, or Obama stays. 

Here's a video about Romney's time and activity at Bain. Biased to be sure, but informative: 

http://www.webcasts.com/kingofbain/


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## chimuelo (Jan 13, 2012)

There's a good reason flip flops with Obamas, Romneys, Kerrys and others always happen is because only 15-20% of the country is Liberal, 20-25% Evangelical, and 60% is Independant and know all of these liars have to appease us before they get to go to DC.

The big difference is that the small groups of believers has dimished to the point of millions wanting a new system instead of the same crony capitaism that enables both of these false parties.

2012 I predict Obama will win just because the 3 years of on the job training is better than anything the Conservatives have, but the Congress and Senate will be heavily GOP since the wealthy Liberals are all talking about how they want to spend time with their family, which really means becoming a lobbyist.

Anyway the entire year is a waste of time and its sad that so many people have such a boring life that this is now a topic and conversation piece....

I'd rather see Patreus and the 82nd take over Wall Street and DC, arrest the criminals involved in crashing the economy actually have their assets froze while they wait for trial, then let the people's vote decide what is needed in DC. The electoral vote is a joke, with all of these morons pretending they can't read the chaf, acting like OJ trying to put on the glove........ :mrgreen:

The GOP candidates like GIngrich and Santorum just need to get their Cigar smoked, it'll put them in a better less hateful, envious mood.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 13, 2012)

> The sad part is, I don't see much difference no matter whether he gets in there, or Obama stays.



The Supreme Court is a huge difference.


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## George Caplan (Jan 14, 2012)

ron paul insane? never. have you ever met him? he has some great ideas that sad to say the average moron voter will never understand. he would be great in charge of the fed. maybe too old now although still youthful for his age. for insanity look no further than santorum if you want insane. mind you compared to the fucking morons in europe.....................!


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## chimuelo (Jan 14, 2012)

He's insane for bringing the ClubFeds global corruption into the limelight.
The last politician who did that actually was jailed. But he wasn't honest like Paul, and had some skeletons in the closet that were used to jail him. 
Most wealthy Liberal 1%'r's are never jailed for their crimes, and even pass laws that prevent their criminal acts form prosecution, but James Trafficante was jailed for regular day to day activity that the elites in DC conduct themselves in.
Paul will not win, but to see so many young people that realize the true rulers in our society is the beginning of the end of politics as usual in DC.
Someone will pick up where Paul left off, but be smart enough to lie like the wealthy Liberals and Consevatives do during their year long camera kissing campaigns. They'll appease the hawks by promising to build up the military, then get the minority votes by passing amnesty, then increase welfare checks to continue the cash for breeding programs.
That's how you please the entire spectrum. Then once you get in.......well we know all about that don't we.

A simple reminder of Obamas expansion of the Patriot Act, etc.etc.
He gives great lies..........ooops.......I mean speeches, but can always blame Congress for not passing his programs.
Isn't this the way it has worked for decades....? Only this time ClubFeds' anonymity is totally hidden thanks to the campaign finance laws that passed under the Libera'l Super Majority,......but wait, they didn't know about that, it's not their fault, and the endless shell games and finger pointing continues..

2012 will be a great year for entertainment and the status quo.
1.2 Trillion more is ready to be printed for banks in Europe and will also be called another " jobs " program.."

God Bless The USA.................
Land of the Free and the Home of the Slave.........


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## NYC Composer (Jan 14, 2012)

Ron Paul doesn't matter-he's essentially a sideshow. He will never be elected, and he won't run as an independent because that would poison the waters for his son forever.

Sooner or later (probably sooner, as in South Carolina) Romney will be the only one left standing. The only dark horse left is Gingrich, and the Repubs are deathly afraid of what he'll do to sully Romney. I cannot imagine the enticements being put in front of him to get him to cease and desist.

@Nick-yep. The Supremes sing the tune. For example, what this court has done to campaign funding will be felt for generations.


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## George Caplan (Jan 14, 2012)

romney will be the next president. thats got nothing to do with ron paul one way or another.

is obama really serious about raising another $1.2 trillion? that really is the end of the road for the democrats. although you all missed it. europe is about to muddy the waters again and this time quite seriously. they really are assholes and ill say it again. bond trader rules are in another dimension to political rules. they need to understand that in europe pretty quickly.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 14, 2012)

I do worry that Ron Paul could be a spoiler.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 14, 2012)

@ George-You're guessing, like everyone else. It is impossible to make a definitive determination about the results of an American presidential election that's 10 months away.

Btw-you're guessing about Europe too. You told us everything was over months ago. You basically bid all investors goodbye and good luck. I'm not saying a major conflagration won't happen, but obviously your prognostication skills don't include exact dates. You're sort of like the weatherman of bad news: "It's going to rain". Well sure-eventually.


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## midphase (Jan 14, 2012)

George Caplan @ Sat Jan 14 said:


> ron paul insane? never. have you ever met him? he has some great ideas that sad to say the average moron voter will never understand. he would be great in charge of the fed. maybe too old now although still youthful for his age. for insanity look no further than santorum if you want insane. mind you compared to the fucking morons in europe.....................!



His stance on some issues can only be described as insane. For instance he's completely ok with a business refusing to serve Mexicans, or Blacks, or Jews. He's quite happy with completely ending abortion rights by effectively repealing Roe v. Wade and passing the Sanctity of Life Act which would effectively ban any state attempt at legalizing abortions. He believes Social Security is unconstitutional, he believes Medicare is unconstitutional as well. He believes the FDA should be disbanded. He believes that it's completely ok for states to regulate social matters like sexual activity!!!

Should I go on? He is as much as a libertarian as it's convenient to his personal views, but on those issues that he disagrees with, he's completely ok with the government taking charge of personal lifestyle choices.


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## George Caplan (Jan 14, 2012)

NYC Composer @ Sat Jan 14 said:


> @ George-You're guessing, like everyone else. It is impossible to make a definitive determination about the results of an American presidential election that's 10 months away.
> 
> Btw-you're guessing about Europe too. You told us everything was over months ago. You basically bid all investors goodbye and good luck. I'm not saying a major conflagration won't happen, but obviously your prognostication skills don't include exact dates. You're sort of like the weatherman of bad news: "It's going to rain". Well sure-eventually.



of course im guessing larry. but how much do you want to bet me right now? minimum bet $20k. look at the opportunity you now have to make that much money on a public forum.

everything is over in europe. they just dont seem able to admit that.


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## George Caplan (Jan 14, 2012)

midphase @ Sat Jan 14 said:


> His stance on some issues can only be described as insane. For instance he's completely ok with a business refusing to serve Mexicans, or Blacks, or Jews. He's quite happy with completely ending abortion rights by effectively repealing Roe v. Wade and passing the Sanctity of Life Act which would effectively ban any state attempt at legalizing abortions. He believes Social Security is unconstitutional, he believes Medicare is unconstitutional as well. He believes the FDA should be disbanded. He believes that it's completely ok for states to regulate social matters like sexual activity!!!



so whats insane about any of that? 


:lol: 


that is total rubbish of course and completely out of context. i mean really if you cant discuss things like this without going into ridiculously subjective posturing i cant be bothered either. im off this one.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 14, 2012)

George Caplan @ Sat Jan 14 said:


> NYC Composer @ Sat Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > @ George-You're guessing, like everyone else. It is impossible to make a definitive determination about the results of an American presidential election that's 10 months away.
> ...



And what would we bet on? The date that the Dow hits 6,000 as a result of Eurozone contagion? Or the possibility of Mitt's ascension to the throne? If the latter, why would I bet 20k of my hard earned money on what is essentially a 50/50 proposition?


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## Ed (Jan 14, 2012)

George Caplan @ Sat Jan 14 said:


> that is total rubbish of course and completely out of context. i mean really if you cant discuss things like this without going into ridiculously subjective posturing i cant be bothered either. im off this one.



How about you give some examples of how Midphase took Paul out of context and explain what Paul really thinks about those issues?


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## midphase (Jan 14, 2012)

Meh...you can just go here and read it straight from the horse's mouth:

http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/

Sure, there's a lot to agree with...but the things I disagree on with him are pretty huge!

Just read up on the abortion and the civil rights sections of the issue and you'll find that there's nothing 'out of context' about my post regarding Paul's stance.


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## midphase (Jan 14, 2012)

The scary part is that most of Paul's supporters naively focus on the issues that they agree with him on, and are pretty ignorant of his other crazy-talk.


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## George Caplan (Jan 15, 2012)

NYC Composer @ Sat Jan 14 said:


> And what would we bet on? The date that the Dow hits 6,000 as a result of Eurozone contagion? Or the possibility of Mitt's ascension to the throne? If the latter, why would I bet 20k of my hard earned money on what is essentially a 50/50 proposition?



ok larry you sucked me in i admit it. if the dow hits 6000 20k wouldnt make any difference to you one way or another. and you worked out the even money angle so kudos. mitt romney will be president because he has the smile he has the teeth and he has the hair. thats what americans like and thats what they vote for. c'mon larry. get with the program. 57 years must tell you something.


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## José Herring (Jan 15, 2012)

You've gone from the absurd to the ridiculous. If it was all about smile, teeth and hair we wouldn't have had to endure George Bush for 8 years who has none of those qualities.


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## midphase (Jan 15, 2012)

W did have a smirk...does that count?


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## chimuelo (Jan 15, 2012)

This time the money and power is what will win.
Obama came at the right time actually and wasn't expected to beat Clinton, but he was such a moral boost for young and old blacks, I felt proud for them. 
But things have changed since then, unfortaunately George Soros apponited too many Czars and the Attorney General is the most incompetant we ever had. Who appears to be a reverse discrimanation proponent. His opening speech I personally found insulting, and when the Black Panthers got a pass, that was the most infuriating thing I have ever seen an Attorney General do, way worse than the asshole Ashcroft ever did, and I thought he was bad.


Back to the Vulture Capitaism.
Again, there's a solution when people who can comprimise, get together, and use their heads.
Imagine being in your 50s and suddenly out of a job..... >8o 
Too old to get benefits, so the Vultures should have laws that either find another job in the company for those at risk, or cover their benefits, retraining and education, and pick up a percentage of their salary for 1 year before they go to unemployment, which sadly is just enough to keep you at home and barely pay the bills.

Here's where 2 real " parties " would be able to protect Americans, since they took that oathe. 
But these 2 " partys " are more interested in personal gains, and their own power and wealth, to ever prevent this type of capitalism.

Imagine the Vultures balancing the costs, of whacking people versus the costs of keeping them employed......
Might be enough of a hassle to just leave the less productive section alone and possibly work on making it more productive.....

I am quite sure that shareholders wouldn't mind having some heart. 
I remember Pretty Woman, with Richard Gere, and too bad that's Hollywood and not a protective type of law.

Wait, let's send Mit Romney a whore, even prettier than Julia Roberts, maybe that would work just like it did in the movie.....


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 15, 2012)

I posted the same link to Ron Paul's site earlier in this thread. Nothing Kays says is out of context or misleading at all. That is exactly what he says.

But I disagree with Kays about one thing: there is actually very little to agree with. 

And his "ideas" about the Fed are spectacularly ignorant.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 15, 2012)

The root of the problem is that he puts his ideology ahead of common sense.

Now, you could make the argument that at least he has an ideology, while the Republicans operate without any intellectual backing whatsoever behind their stupid idiotic rhetoric*. But I think that's setting the bar very low.



* "I don’t understand what’s gotten them madder: Romney’s healthcare plan, McCain’s cap-and-trade, Bush’s tort reform, Johnny Isakson’s end-of-life counseling, or Milton Friedman’s monetary policy? These are all things that they go nuts over — basically most of them were Republican ideas!" - James Carville


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## chimuelo (Jan 15, 2012)

Paul knows the game at the Fed, and I am 100% behind taking a peek at this lock box where 2 trillion dollars of taxpayers money is earning interest... :mrgreen: 
Truth is the Fed is no longer an American Institution, I can live with that, but to not think they decide who sits in certain chairs of the committees is being a blind believer of the 2 party sytem.

Ask yourself why when these 2 partys supposedly disagree on every single issue from A-Z that somehow they both come together and agree to send Billions of Dollars to countries that are already wealthy, like Suadi Arabia, and programs in China,....? Israel, and N.Korea...?

Never see this vote come up in the house or even on CSPAN, yet both parties sign off on it and we hear about months and years later, and find out they really do agree on many issues.........Yeah right.

They were told to sign off on it, and were paid.
Now that foreign Banks can anonymously donate to individual campaigns shows you who runs the Capital.
Money, and who prints it, yours truly.

As far as Pauls solutions to economic problems here at home, he is pipe dreaming for a Liberatarian Utopia, similar to the Garden Of Eden, which also no longer exists.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 15, 2012)

George Caplan @ Sun Jan 15 said:


> NYC Composer @ Sat Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > And what would we bet on? The date that the Dow hits 6,000 as a result of Eurozone contagion? Or the possibility of Mitt's ascension to the throne? If the latter, why would I bet 20k of my hard earned money on what is essentially a 50/50 proposition?
> ...



Yep, george. My time on earth has taught me to laugh at people who talk out of their asses.


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## snowleopard (Jan 15, 2012)

Paul is not insane, and has several ideas that make good sense, but he also lives in a bubble removed from reality, which is evident in some of his other positions as listed earlier by midphase. 

For example, does anyone recall when asked if someone who gets into an accident and has no health insurance should be refused care, Paul said that neighbors and churches would take care of the person. Reminds me if his son's assertion after Massey mine tragedy that instead of hampering the business and looking to blame them, "accidents happen". 

I will say this though, several of Paul's followers do border on insane. They have a cult-like fascination with him the way they stuff web polls, comment sections and message boards. It's beyond annoying.


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## George Caplan (Jan 16, 2012)

snowleopard @ Sun Jan 15 said:


> Paul is not insane, and has several ideas that make good sense, but he also lives in a bubble removed from reality, which is evident in some of his other positions as listed earlier by midphase.



a bubble removed from reality. you mean as in living in denial? because thats what most of the planet do just about most of the time. its virtually impossible to talk to anyone outside of your own personal sphere these days. a lot of what ron paul says is to do with things like over population and how to employ people in the greater scheme of things.

most democrats are living in denial EVEN though they have a democratic president who is even now talking about another $1.2 trillion borrowing amidst the current economic climate. it wont matter who wins the rep nomination because the american people will vote for him or her regardless of what his or her policies are come election day.


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## George Caplan (Jan 16, 2012)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Jan 15 said:


> The root of the problem is that he puts his ideology ahead of common sense.



thats why no one understands a word he says. imagine an ideological president of the US in the 21st century. :lol:


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## NYC Composer (Jan 16, 2012)

George Caplan @ Mon Jan 16 said:


> Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > The root of the problem is that he puts his ideology ahead of common sense.
> ...



"My ideology good-your ideology bad"- ©The American People.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 16, 2012)

Well, I've said it again and I'll say it before: liberalism is not an ideology. Conservatism is - and a bad one.

Being against taxes, "big government," and "regulations" is stupid ideology. The opposite of that is not liberalism.

And by the way I understand what Ron Paul says and I disagree with almost all of it. Legalizing pot and dismantling our empire are both good ideas, but wanting to get rid of the Fed is just ignorant.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 16, 2012)

No matter how many times you say it, Nick, it's no more true-and I say that as a somewhat ideological liberal. My ideology involves people over politics, humanism over money-ism, a mistrust of big energy interests vs health, etc etc etc. Being on the side of the angels does not=non-ideological.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 16, 2012)

Common sense is not an ideology.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 17, 2012)

Too facile.


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## George Caplan (Jan 17, 2012)

its called laissez faire economics. take it or leave it.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 17, 2012)

Larry, is YOYO (you're on your own) an ideology? I think it's just mean, not an ideology. The ideological part is "government should do nothing to help people because it's enabling them to need help."

Similarly, WITT (we're in this together) is not an ideology, it's common sense and basic decency. Socialism is an ideology, but liberals are not socialists.

And the following is another example of why I say liberals are not ideologues:

George, that solid line is only in a make believe world. We live in the real one, in which some things should be laissed faire and others can't be.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 17, 2012)

Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Jan 17 said:


> Larry, is YOYO (you're on your own) an ideology? I think it's just mean, not an ideology. The ideological part is "government should do nothing to help people because it's enabling them to need help."
> 
> Similarly, WITT (we're in this together) is not an ideology, it's common sense and basic decency. Socialism is an ideology, but liberals are not socialists.
> 
> ...



Nick, I think the distinction you're trying to make is moot. Perhaps WITT and YOYO are not ideologies per se, but they are almost inevitably accompanied by them. Btw, I know you're aware that most liberals (myself included) DO believe in some form of limited socialism. 

Many conservatives I know are charitable on their own, through their churches and local organizations. Their ideology usually includes the idea that initiatives like theirs and state funded programs can replace federal charitable initiatives. I find that ludicrous, as my personal belief is that if charitable programs aren't mandated, especially for the elderly and children, more people will fall through the cracks and go hungry, because not enough people contribute to those smaller initiatives, and states can easily divert funds away from charitable programs. My beliefs are part of an ideology as well.

As I've written this, I've changed my mind. Yes, I believe both are ideologies. How could they not be?


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## NYC Composer (Jan 17, 2012)

(Thinking) Nick, some of the Great Society programs had demonstrably deleterious effects on African American families in inner cities. It's just never as cut and dried as we'd like it to be, but that said, I fall on the same side you do most of the time-for social justice, compassion and recognizing, as you say, that WITT.


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## George Caplan (Jan 17, 2012)

Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Jan 17 said:


> We live in the real one



but i thought you were a liberal?


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## chimuelo (Jan 17, 2012)

WITT is great, and imagine if the Super Majority of Liberals really believed in it.
We could have given every single American 24-29,000 USD which would have been spent on their mortgages that would have kept the Banks alive, and the rest would have gone for goods and services where demand evaporated.......

But I guess the Liberals know better than me. Giving trillions to the very institutions that caused the financial crisis might have been better than the Social Justice they claim they believe in. 

The YOYO people don't believe in it, but at least they don't try and pretend they are concrened with it.

Not a single prosecution has been made, no indictments, just trillions of interest free dollars as a reward to the very people who screwed us in the first place.

If that is WITT, it seems to have the opposite effect, similar to Welfare.
Let the politicans take their cut, then pass it on to one of the other 1,800 programs designed to help the poor.........

This sad joke has screwed all Americans for decades. I was hoping Obama would instill pride in everyone and change the nature of DC.
He has consolidated the Banks, ClubFed and other financial institutions where they are more profitable and powerful than ever. I am glad he hooked me and my bros up with special insurance instead of the program that was meant to be repealed.

But from where I sit. Obama has done 3 great things.

Pre existing condition must be covered, in exchange for insurance monopolies to have 4 years of continued rising fees and profits.
Not a bad deal.

He was taken out Bin Laden, Khaddaffi, and dozens of other terrorists that Bush never seemed concerned with, reagradless of the distractions in Iraq, etc.

And our borders are definately more secure, they just don't want to tell us this, as we really do want to keep the Mexicans on our side, and let a few Hezbollah guys get through so we may track them.

These are very good accomplishments.

A vote for the YOYO candidate won't fix anything as all businesses know they can get by with less workers, so what's the use of reducing taxes...? So we can have bigger Medicare and Socail Security deficits..?

Obama gets my vote, but I am in no way disillusioned about the wealthy Liberals true desire for endless careers and endless wealth for themselves, which I am sure they really will spread around once they have time to retire.................

I say let every wealthy 1% Liberals stay in office as long as they give 30% of their wealth to the poor, along with my money, that they seem to mismanage so badly.
Maybe since they're good with their own money, they'll spend it more wisely, and see some results instead of creating the largest Plantation in the history of our Country..


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## NYC Composer (Jan 17, 2012)

You seem like a merry anarchist, Chim, so I'm sure you would have enjoyed the runs on the banks and the bloodletting and riots that ensued if there was no bailout-however, I don't think I would have. Regardless of the reason, a frozen banking system would have cause a worldwide panic that would have been quite a sight to see. I don't pretend to know how it would have all shaken out, but hell-I give Bush credit for getting the fck out of the way when the panicked capitalists at Treasury and the Fed scrambled to avoid financial chaos. 

I have plenty of problems with Obama, but he was left with the clean-up, and I'm curious that you put the blame on him for the whole mess when he did his best to push a much stronger Dodd-Frank- which Congress wouldn't pass.


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## Andrew Aversa (Jan 17, 2012)

Not sure how the bailouts were a "liberal" idea, maybe you could clarify that? Corrupt Republicans were the main ones to support it, along with Bush, Paulson (former Goldman Sachs CEO...)


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 17, 2012)

The bailouts were inevitable. Every administration would have had no choice but to do that - and the same goes for the auto industry rescue.

What was absolutely not inevitable is the way they were done with no strings attached. That's a separate argument.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 17, 2012)

Larry, I think the main thing I'm getting at about ideology is that conservatism is centered around "limited government." That comes before the potential outcomes; it is an ideology.

But liberals don't believe in unlimited government for its own sake, we just have no problem with top-down solutions when they're required. That's not an ideology, it's practical.


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## chimuelo (Jan 17, 2012)

Brotha Man Zircon, 
Bush and the GOP spent like Liberals usually do to stem the downfall which really started when the World Trade Center fell. That's when the financial scams that usually would go unnoticed and be buried under huge profits started becoming exposed. Hence the massive refinancing scams that nobody in Congress ever talked about as a reason for the housing collapse. Foreign Banks ( ClubFed members ) like Deutsch Bank were on American soil with the agreement from Dodd, Frank and Bush......you know, the guys who never agree on anything... :mrgreen: 

Think about it, you see trouble coming, so you need demostic spending from consumers to offset the losses in the virtual sector of speculation.
Giving anyone with 60k + equity in their home a huge cash advance on the false profits from the appraisal experts was a good start, and giving houses away for nothing at the same time was going to help too.
Didn't work, Bush and Co. then had the Pharmacuetical plan divised to free up the high cost of medicine to seniors, in hopes they would spend more of their savings, another failed bandaid, then the middle class kickback checks, remember those....? They didn't work then they knew in 2008 after the end of FY 2007 they were in deep caca, but dont alert the media or the citizens during an election.

Then wait right before the election results and a transitional period ( a ClubFed favorite ) and make Bush announce TARP. As if that guy had knowledge of how to and which Banks needed the money. This was Paulsen all the way.....And Paulsen was the guy who made the Super Majority change their original No vote to yes for trillions to begin going to Banks and whoever the Super Majoirity decided would get it.
Well the little Banks didn't stand a chance, and we all know the rest of the story, 
The elites got their cut and passed it onto the States, meanwhile the Banks returned the loans with Interest and nobody knows where that money went but we need more, so more go to the banks in Europe without any vote. That's all Geitner and Bernancke which in reality are the front men for the Global Corporations and Banks that call the shots.

This is why when you see Saudi Arabia get 15 Billion, or Dubai, or Oman get all of this money to fight " terrorism " is a shell game. They sit on the board as memebers of OPEC so they decide for the Senators and congressmen, the politicians just need to all agree and its done.

Funny how they all agree on these absurd foreign transfers but cant agree on saving some jobs here at home.....????
I hope this clarifies my disbelief in these 2 partys and why I get mad.
These elites are pissing all over our backs and trying to tell us that it's raining.

And as far as the welathy Liberals representing the poor and downtrodden, and despising the wealthy CEO's and corporate Jet Owners. They sure hang out with them alot.

This whole string of crisis after crisis and how the world is melting is nonsense.
My friend just returned from Japan and Macau, and said they are doing fine. Real estate prices are rising like they were here in the 90's.

Yepp the elites want to spread the wealth, but not to us, it goes abroad for a new Chinese middle Class, afterall that where most of them have invested since Mexico already paid off well. So if you think they are going to tackle income inequality, it'll never happen.

Im still waiting for Warren Buffets big donation.....Well I guess 5 Billion dollars from his insurance company profits into Bank Of America was more important......

In 2012 Income Equality will be the election mantra for Liberals.
Millions will cheer as freebies for votes works great.
But 2013 will come and another crisis will prevent the spreading of wealth.
Maybe then the worshippers of the extreme left and right that represent themselves and the wealthy will finally be seen for what they are.

My guess is a few more document dumps will reveal who's been naughty or nice, and then the I need to spend time with my family speeches will be rather numerous.

OK I let off my steam, thanks


Im still voting Liberal FWIW, but I have someone other than Harry Reid I want in there this time.
He's made millions and millions, let somebody else wet their beaks.

Hey maybe he'll come back home here to Nevada and spread his wealth to us peasants...................? I don't think he's that kind of Liberal, besides his son lost a ton of money running for Governor, the kids probably are hitting up pops for a few million here and there.....

Hey check this out. How would you feel if your son, Rory Reid, ran for Governor in Nevada and was so ashamed of the family name he had signs and Bumper sticlers saying vote for Rory..............no mention of Dad............. >8o


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## NYC Composer (Jan 17, 2012)

Write-in Sharron Angle- she'd be a hoot 'n a holler!

(didn't she almost win in your state?)


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## chimuelo (Jan 17, 2012)

She's the worst Moron out of all of them..... ~o) 

She was campaigning about Federal Spending and lavish pensions, etc.
Funny thing her husband worked for the BLM for decades and gets a nice Federal Pension. 
She almost won, that's how bad things got here for the Blue Dogs.

Obama wasn't allowed to go off script for reporters for 2 years after his evil CEO las Vegas speech.
That caused dozens of conventions to cancel, and the Unions do not allow negotiating part time hours. It's a guarantee of 40 a week.
So the largest lay off in history of the State started and lasted up until last summer.
1,000's of Union Teamsters and Carpenters work the Conventions, The SEIU and Culinary also lost 1,000's of jobs.
Obama then lost Edelson and Wynn which were his supporters in 2008, so I'd say he learned his lesson about the class warfare rhetoric.
At least wait until you get the Banks and Wall Street Hedge Fund money, then do the racist, Fat Cat CEO, Jet Owner skit.

If Romney wins, I can guarantee the Carpenters Union and Mormon Bankers and Casino owners will definately merge together. I just hope my Local doesn't leave the AFL-CIO, they are losing many trades right now as it is wiser to organize locally, and buy the politicians for cheap in the State Capitals, DC elites are expensive. I mean after the trillions they just went through, a million to their campaign would probably seem like an insult.....


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