# Holy3 for Brass (Trumpets Updated)



## Rodney Money (Jun 12, 2017)

(Edit 6/29) I recently got commissioned by the New Philadelphia Moravian Church in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, USA to compose a short brass piece/ fanfare based on the hymn Holy Holy Holy, and a few of you thought the trumpets could've sounded better. It was probably my initial mistake blending a muted trumpet sound with an open sound adding too many higher frequencies at ff passages. Here are the 3 trumpet parts, and I am wondering if the sound now works before I move own. I have also included the trumpet 1 score. Thanks again, and oh, it should sound like a trumpet section instead of a soloist.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 12, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> I recently got commissioned by the New Philadelphia Moravian Church in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, USA to compose a short brass piece/ fanfare based on the hymn Holy Holy Holy, and I thought I would share. The score is attached also. Thanks for listening.




This is extremely easy for me to like. Please give the inside scoop on the v.i.s and engineering.


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## Rodney Money (Jun 12, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> This is extremely easy for me to like. Please give the inside scoop on the v.i.s and engineering.


Your are way too nice, my friend. Thank you for both listening and commenting! I will start this post first describing the virtual instruments and libraries used. One thing that I do with samples is layer sounds not only trying to create a unique voice for my own self but also trying to discover new sounds and possibilities with the samples I already own, so I do not automatically say to myself, "I don't have a euphonium ensemble, I must buy Ark 2 now!" But instead I try to create a euphonium ensemble sound. Another thing I do is using smaller sized sections for softer parts and larger sized sections for louder parts. If I need something a little more expressive I will layer a warm solo instrument over top of the ensemble. Concerning creating accents on sustains and legato passages, if I need a punchier accent I will layer either a staccato patch or even a marcato with the sustained patch.

Here is a list of the instruments and samples used for each section:


Trumpets, CineBrass Core Trumpet Ensemble, CineBrass Core Trumpet Solo 1 for the softer parts, Berlin Brass Mutes Trumpet Ensemble Straight Mute, and Berlin Brass Mutes Trumpet solo 1 and 2 Straight Mute. I used the Berlin Brass Muted Trumpets to give a sizzle at the FF passages.
Horns, CineBrass Core Horn a2 and Horn a6 mixed together then Berlin Brass Mutes Horn Ensemble Stopped Mutes blended with CineBrass for FF passages.
Trombones: CineBrass Trombone Ensemble and Trombone Solo, Spitfire Tenor Trombones a2 and Bass Trombones a2.
Euphoniums: the soft one at the beginning I used VSL Euphonium Solo mixed with CineBrass Core's Horn Solo 1. For fuller passages later on I used CineBrass Tuba Solo in its high register mixed with CineBrass Horn a2, and VSL Euphonium Solo. For FF passages I added a couple of samples that I did not know until recently that came with my original Spitfire Bones Volume 1 library, Spitfire Tenor Trombones with Euphonium Albion 2 Overlay and Bass Trombones with Euphonium Albion 2 Overlay!
Tuba: one of my favorite samples, CineBrass Pro's Tuba solo but panned in the middle for a full rich sound. 

Reverb used: MIR Teldex Stage for placement of the VSL Euphonium and Spaces' Hamburg Cathedral replicating a bit of the Air Studios sound. I used Spaces for an additional reverb on the VSL Euphonium also.
I will talk more about the production in another post. Thank you for asking!


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## Jaap (Jun 13, 2017)

Job well done I would say! Great to listen to and you did an outstanding job on the mockup and I love your approach as described in the previous post. Thanks for sharing Rodney.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 13, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> Your are way too nice, my friend. Thank you for both listening and commenting! I will start this post first describing the virtual instruments and libraries used. One thing that I do with samples is layer sounds not only trying to create a unique voice for my own self but also trying to discover new sounds and possibilities with the samples I already own, so I do not automatically say to myself, "I don't have a euphonium ensemble, I must buy Ark 2 now!" But instead I try to create a euphonium ensemble sound. Another thing I do is using smaller sized sections for softer parts and larger sized sections for louder parts. If I need something a little more expressive I will layer a warm solo instrument over top of the ensemble. Concerning creating accents on sustains and legato passages, if I need a punchier accent I will layer either a staccato patch or even a marcato with the sustained patch.
> 
> Here is a list of the instruments and samples used for each section:
> 
> ...



This is one of the most thorough and helpful posts on this forum. even though I don't think I own a single one of those v.i.s lol! Many thanks Rodney, and I look forward to the further info.


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## WhiteNoiz (Jun 13, 2017)

It needs a live recording so badly... Something like this:
https://clyp.it/ncr2nsiz?token=034f7d815536cb15d56ac33bf07f38fd

It would gain so much. Personally, I'm not really impressed by the samples. I think they make it sound way too flat. The attacks, releases, phrasing, dynamics sound ALL off to me... Still nice though. It has that majestic, triumphant touch. Focusing on the music itself... In my head it sounds great. 

This was kind of a relief, tbh. I actually tried to focus on the music and pick up what you did underneath. Hopefully this comes off as a compliment, lol.


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## Paul T McGraw (Jun 13, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> I recently got commissioned by the New Philadelphia Moravian Church in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, USA to compose a short brass piece/ fanfare based on the hymn Holy Holy Holy, and I thought I would share. The score is attached also. Thanks for listening.




Great arrangement! It is very difficult to do an original and artistic arrangement of one of the old hymn tunes because we have previously heard them so often and in so many different arrangements. However, you pulled it off beautifully. Great job! My only complaint is that I didn't want it to end so quickly. I am especially impressed with how much you can get out of Cinebrass. I am confident that the folks at the Moravian Church will be thrilled! 

I love the old hymns. May God bless you and grant you success and more opportunities like this in the future.


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## NoamL (Jun 13, 2017)

A worthy sequel to Gabrieli, Rodney 

It just desperately needs a live recording!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 13, 2017)

Hi Rodney, 
Cool track! I like your composition and fanfare sounds really good. Thank you for sharing.


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## markleake (Jun 13, 2017)

While I do agree with @WhiteNoiz on the limitations of the samples, especially with the trumpets, it is very well done. A great hymn to do this with.

A question though... I've sometimes heard this played with more counterpoint energy (I think that is the right term?) - why not have the Tuba/Euph get a bit more excitement, eg. more than just crotchets and occasional eighth notes, especially in the second half?


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## Rodney Money (Jun 13, 2017)

markleake said:


> While I do agree with @WhiteNoiz on the limitations of the samples, especially with the trumpets, it is very well done. A great hymn to do this with.
> 
> A question though... I've sometimes heard this played with more counterpoint energy (I think that is the right term?) - why not have the Tuba/Euph get a bit more excitement, eg. more than just crotchets and occasional eighth notes, especially in the second half?


The tempo is quite slow, BPM=c. 66 so some of the faster rhythms will seem slower especially 8th notes. Attached is the tuba part. Where would you recommend?


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Jun 13, 2017)

Awesome writing, congratulations @Rodney Money ! Even if I'm not in love with the sound of the mockup, I got goosebumps. So I guess it's a win


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Jun 14, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> Well, give me details. Why did it suck?



Didn't suck AT ALL ! What didn't do it for me was the trumpets, feel them a bit flat/synthy and not really expressive. Listening to your piece again, and I think you definitely did a great blending/programming job with the other instruments. Wish I could give you more details but I don't feel capable !

But again, awesome piece.


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## Rodney Money (Jun 14, 2017)

whitewasteland said:


> Didn't suck AT ALL ! What didn't do it for me was the trumpets, feel them a bit flat/synthy and not really expressive. Listening to your piece again, and I think you definitely did a great blending/programming job with the other instruments. Wish I could give you more details but I don't feel capable !
> 
> But again, awesome piece.


I had a feeling my gamble with the trumpets blending in Berlin Muted Brass at high velocities would not pay off. I am going to post a few examples to see what people prefer. Thank you for telling it was the trumpets. Another issue that I did was mistakenly raise the higher frequencies in the eq at the end probably giving too much buzz. Let me see if I can go back and work on it.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Jun 14, 2017)

Yep, always here for something that involves trumpets and geekiness


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## Rodney Money (Jun 20, 2017)

I recently got commissioned by the New Philadelphia Moravian Church in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, USA to compose a short brass piece/ fanfare based on the hymn Holy Holy Holy, and a few of you thought the trumpets could've sounded better. It was probably my initial mistake blending a muted trumpet sound with an open sound adding too many higher frequencies at ff passages. I spent around 3 days just on the trumpet 1 part wondering if the sound now works before I move own. I have also included the trumpet 1 score. Thanks again, and oh, it should sound like a trumpet section instead of a soloist.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Jun 21, 2017)

I'd say this trumpet sound seems much better, what's your new recipe ?


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## Rodney Money (Jun 21, 2017)

whitewasteland said:


> I'd say this trumpet sound seems much better, what's your new recipe ?


Thanks for listening again. Unfortunately I am limited with limited libraries but this new recipe is a blend of of Cinesamples Trumpet Ensemble from Core mixed with the Trumpet Solo from Pro. I am trying to keep the sound more full and open so I eq'd the bright piercing highs of the solo around 3000 HZ allowing the ff buzz come from just the ensemble patch.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Jun 21, 2017)

Good stuff, looking forward to hear the full track again !


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## Paul T McGraw (Jun 21, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> Thanks for listening again. Unfortunately I am limited with limited libraries but this new recipe is a blend of of Cinesamples Trumpet Ensemble from Core mixed with the Trumpet Solo from Pro. I am trying to keep the sound more full and open so I eq'd the bright piercing highs of the solo around 3000 HZ allowing the ff buzz come from just the ensemble patch.



This does sound better. The most important point is that it is a very good and creative arrangement. Of course a midi performance is always going to have some compromises, it can't really be helped. 

Did you envision this piece as a Brass Choir with multiple instruments on each part? Or do you picture just one instrument per part?


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## Rodney Money (Jun 21, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> This does sound better. The most important point is that it is a very good and creative arrangement. Of course a midi performance is always going to have some compromises, it can't really be helped.
> 
> Did you envision this piece as a Brass Choir with multiple instruments on each part? Or do you picture just one instrument per part?


Thank you, Paul. This short little piece has went through an evolution of its own. It first started out as a trumpet choir piece, then for 7 players, and now I have the opportunity to write it for 6 trumpets, 5 horns, 3 trombones, 2 euphoniums, and 2 tubas. Also I want to arrange it for marching band and send it in for publication, but I want it to be more of a warm-up piece so no percussion. The piece has already changed a little too, starting at the beginning I don't have the trumpets anymore but just the horns in unison playing the main motif in more of a fanfare horn-like fashion but only up to about a mf dynamic. Next, the euphoniums and tubas get their feature, then the trumpets with the trombones come in with theirs, and finally everyone at the crescendo to the end.


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## Rodney Money (Jun 28, 2017)

(Edit 6/29) Here are the 3 trumpet parts, and I am wondering if the sound now works before I move own. I have also included the trumpet 1 score. Thanks again, and oh, it should sound like a trumpet section instead of a soloist.


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## Paul T McGraw (Jun 29, 2017)

Sounds much more realistic now.


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