# NEW: Orchestral Tools Tableau Chamber Strings



## doctoremmet (Jul 1, 2021)

Tableau Chamber Strings


Tableau Chamber Strings delivers rich string sounds with 20 instruments: 5 first violins, 4 second violins, 4 violas, 4 celli, and 3 basses. All instruments were recorded in situ, with musicians in traditional seating positions, to give users the balanced, natural sound of a full chamber...




www.orchestraltools.com





EUR 119 intro price (ex VAT)
Sample Talk thread
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## doctoremmet (Jul 1, 2021)

Highlights

-A full chamber string collection with 5 first violins, 4 second violins, 4 violas, 4 celli, and 3 basses

-Fast access to meticulously sampled, unprocessed sounds

-Pre-recorded dynamic articulations—sustains, swells, crescendos, decrescendos, and spiccato notes—in multiple lengths and dynamic layers

-Melodic legato sampling with long, natural transitions between notes

-Single dynamic layer that captures the musicians’ natural expression

-Mixable mic positions and mic techniques for customizing the sound

-Instruments recorded in situ on the legendary Teldex Scoring Stage in Berlin

-Great for crossover styles, including contemporary classical, neo-classical, and avant-garde


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## doctoremmet (Jul 1, 2021)

Maxime Luft and the Orchestral Tools team recorded Tableau Chamber Strings with talented players on the large Teldex Scoring Stage in Berlin—the same location used for Tableau Solo Strings, Berlin Strings, and countless acclaimed recordings. The ensemble was captured using multiple microphone positions and techniques, giving you options for dialing in the right amount of ambience and delivering mixes that work well in surround projects.

A single dynamic layer was used to allow players the maximum freedom of expression during the sampling session. Players also recorded multiple dynamic articulations and long, melodic legato phrases in musical contexts to provide the most natural, realistic results.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 1, 2021)

Specifications

-Works with Orchestral Tools’ SINE Player—NOTE: Very latest version required!

-40 GB of samples (17.5 GB SINEarc compressed)

-24 bit / 48 KHz patches

-System requirements SINE:
Mac OS 10.13, i5, 4 GB RAM (16+ GB recommended)

-Windows 10, Intel Core i5 or similar (Windows 7 is not officially supported)

-Interfaces: VST, AU


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## doctoremmet (Jul 1, 2021)




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## muziksculp (Jul 1, 2021)

They sound good. It seems like the focus is more on dynamic bowings.

But missing Staccato, and Pizz. Price is attractive.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 1, 2021)

Having just listened to the demos, I agree with your assessment. Price is attractive but I will compare it with Light & Sound “bang-for-buck”-wise first.


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## muziksculp (Jul 1, 2021)

There is no detailed walkthrough of the library yet. Not sure if there will be one posted soon ?


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## Maxime Luft (Jul 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> There is no detailed walkthrough of the library yet. Not sure if there will be one posted soon ?


It will pop up _very _soon. In the meantime the single instrument demos and the trailer show a lot of what *Tableau Chamber Strings* can do! Cheers, 
Maxime


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## muziksculp (Jul 1, 2021)

Maxime Luft said:


> It will pop up _very _soon. In the meantime the single instrument demos and the trailer show a lot of what *Tableau Chamber Strings* can do! Cheers,
> Maxime


Thanks Maxime. 

Will wait for the walkthrough video. The Library sounds wonderful. 

Q. Why did you not include Stacc. and Pizz. to the articulations ? Can the Spicc. be used more like a Stacc. if that is needed ?


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## Instrugramm (Jul 1, 2021)

Sounds pretty nice, might pick them up at some point, love the spiccato.


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## muziksculp (Jul 1, 2021)

Instrugramm said:


> Sounds pretty nice, might pick them up at some point, love the spiccato.


Yes, I love the way the Spicc. sounds. All of the other long articulations sound wonderful as well, very natural and realistic sounding. Not hyped at all. Which is tempting me to get this library. 

The one thing that I'm not too happy about is the lack of Stacc. articulations, if the Spicc. has a long enough version that might do the trick. Let's see if that is demonstrated in the walkthrough video.


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## MA-Simon (Jul 1, 2021)

I don't understand the concept behind this library.
Edit: Is the Spicc also just one layer?


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## MaxOctane (Jul 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Q. Why did you not include Stacc. and Pizz. to the articulations ?


I would imagine because "EUR 119"

Personally, pizz and stacc the last articulations I would miss in a library. I have so many already. And pizz, especially, is pretty much "solved" already from my point of view.


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## muziksculp (Jul 1, 2021)

MaxOctane said:


> I would imagine because "EUR 119"
> 
> Personally, pizz and stacc the last articulations I would miss in a library. I have so many already. And pizz, especially, is pretty much "solved" already from my point of view.


imho. Stacc. is not a luxury, or ignorable articulations for strings.


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## Pablocrespo (Jul 1, 2021)

Similar to Tallinn strings, but I little dryer, I like both!


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## sostenuto (Jul 1, 2021)

Glad you like '_both_' !! One makes wallet $333. lighter .... 
Luv heavier wallet.


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## Getsumen (Jul 1, 2021)

MA-Simon said:


> I don't understand the concept behind this library.
> Edit: Is the Spicc also just one layer?


What exactly about it? The single dynamic thing?
It's something that OT (And others) have done for expressive close sounds such as soloists where any crossfading might be obvious and thus not attractive. (Chamber Strings are relatively similar in that aspect)

I.E. their Nocturne Series, Soloists for woodwinds, probably more I'm forgetting.

Single Dynamic Layer + Filters to simulate dynamics --> No crossfades --> no phasing issues
Pros and Cons to the method of course. I'm sure other users can explain it much more eloquently than I ever could.

Plus I suppose this is one of their first dedicated chamber strings libraries. Doing it this way and placing it under the Organic Samples label might allow them the possibility of making a more traditional more deep-sampled chamber lib later.


Anyway that aside this does sound pretty good.


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## MA-Simon (Jul 1, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> The single dynamic thing?


Edit: Dammit. My resolution was to not comment like this anymore. So I will cut my opinion!

I feel like this library could have worked better if it was not so undersampled. There is a lot of fluff, but not enough meat.


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## antames (Jul 1, 2021)

What is with companies now and releasing libraries with limited articulations? Everything seems to be geared towards long sustains. Strings have been done to death. I wish we would see more innovation in this area and more trying to push the limits of what has already been accomplished.


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## MaxOctane (Jul 1, 2021)

I see no problem with the limited articulations. I mean, here's a set of 7 longs per instrument, plus one short, with a single dynamic layer, at a relatively low price. If the recordings are good (and the audio samples for each instrument sound great) then this can be a useful tool for some pieces.

It's not a full-feature string lib -- not "bread and butter." But for under $150, I don't expect it to be, and I won't complain about what it isn't. There's plenty of full-articulation options already, including the 20 strings libs already on my hard drive. 

This lib sounds good and it's cheap, and I'm interested.


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## muziksculp (Jul 1, 2021)

Staccato could have been easily added to this library, they don't have to deal with legato, just some good short stacc. bows sampled at a few dynamics. I doubt it would have been a game changer price wise, but imho. it does limit the functionality of this library, I would have paid a little extra to have Stacc. articulations, rather than not have it. 

I would like to hear the reason for omitting it from Maxime, but he has not replied to this question. 

Oh well, it's another chamber strings library which sounds very good, but missing an important basic string articulation. Go figure .


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## Futchibon (Jul 1, 2021)

Maxime Luft said:


> It will pop up _very _soon. In the meantime the single instrument demos and the trailer show a lot of what *Tableau Chamber Strings* can do! Cheers,
> Maxime


Is there a 'secret wespon' in here equivalent to the Viola in Tableau solo strings? Demos sound lovely, looking forward to the walkthrough.

@ChrisSiuMusic are you going to be doing a review?

Also interested if anyone who has Tallin and gets this as to how the strings compare.


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## biomuse (Jul 1, 2021)

Pablocrespo said:


> Similar to Tallinn strings, but I little dryer, I like both!


Gee I wouldn't say this has a lot in common with Tallinn in terms of style or sound...


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## JDK88 (Jul 1, 2021)

I could use a chamber strings library, but this one isn't what I'm looking for. I want fast, agile, and musical chamber strings, and I'm not just talking about staccatos and pizzicatos.


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## MikeLG (Jul 1, 2021)

I decided to give these a go. I like the tone but they definitely seem geared toward slower more sustained pieces.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jul 1, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> Is there a 'secret wespon' in here equivalent to the Viola in Tableau solo strings? Demos sound lovely, looking forward to the walkthrough.
> 
> @ChrisSiuMusic are you going to be doing a review?
> 
> Also interested if anyone who has Tallin and gets this as to how the strings compare.


Definitely would like to!


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## muziksculp (Jul 1, 2021)

MikeLG said:


> I decided to give these a go. I like the tone but they definitely seem geared toward slower more sustained pieces.


If they just had added *Stacc*. to the articulations they would have been easily suitable for faster pieces that don't rely on sustains.


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## MikeLG (Jul 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> If they just had added *Stacc*. to the articulations they would have been easily suitable for faster pieces that don't rely on sustains.


Yeah. I can still see myself using the library though, it's just that its use case is limited.


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## Futchibon (Jul 1, 2021)

MikeLG said:


> Yeah. I can still see myself using the library though, it's just that its use case is limited.


Sure, but at only $30 per section we can't expect SCS  They do indeed sound lovely for slower pieces. Very tempted, especially as Berlin Strings has always been out of reach price wise, although I do have BSS, Special Bows and First Chairs, so having some chamber strings recorded in the same space would be great, and I'm a fan of the SINE player.


biomuse said:


> Gee I wouldn't say this has a lot in common with Tallinn in terms of style or sound...


To a degree sure, but I can see TCS blending well with the Tallinn choirs?


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## Easy Pickens (Jul 2, 2021)

I've been using EW Hollywood Diamond divisis for smaller sections when I need a more complete set of articulations than I can get from Anthology chamber, and the Tableau demos sounded promising until I saw what's missing. Still, if I didn't already have Anthology... but I do, and this seems like a step sideways.

Still, respect to Maxime and his philosophy and accomplishment here.


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

Hopefully the walkthrough video will be posted today.


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)




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## Instrugramm (Jul 2, 2021)

Legato is indeed a bit on the problematic side but the swells and the spiccs will be worth it for me and I like the sound of the basses. The price does make it attractive.


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

imho. the walkthrough video was not detailed enough, and didn't even bother to show the Spicc. articulations. I don't want to hear a piece he composed, I want to hear each articulation of every section in detail. and how it behaves when played single notes, and chords. Hopefully other walkthrough videos will be posted soon that will be more helpful to evaluate this library.


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## musicisum (Jul 2, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> Sure, but at only $30 per section we can't expect SCS  They do indeed sound lovely for slower pieces. Very tempted, especially as Berlin Strings has always been out of reach price wise, although I do have BSS, Special Bows and First Chairs, so having some chamber strings recorded in the same space would be great, and I'm a fan of the SINE player.
> 
> To a degree sure, but I can see TCS blending well with the Tallinn choirs?


TCS is for me much more on the agile side as Talinn string-wise – also much less reverb (talinn's reverb is like a 4-second tail), the legatos can do both soft and fast stuff and with a bit of 7th heaven I can blend TCS quite well with the choirs. Talinn's strings are super fine for that sort of "frozen" sound, which the trailer shows very well. Tableau is more traditional, but with that raw, natural sound and a "backed-in musicality" as the samples are definitely not sterile / static but slowly evolve over time (which is a + for me)

They complete each other very well I find, and the single instrument purchase is what I'd recommend if you're on the fence. Starting with the celli would be the safest bet I guess (I mean that sound for 56€... come on)


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## Lee Blaske (Jul 2, 2021)

Interesting, but I've kind of resolved never again to buy a recorded-at-one-level library. I understand the technical reasons for doing that, but for the one-level libraries I've purchased in the past, they quickly start to sound harsh to me. There's only so much you can do by filtering and decreasing volume level to achieve a softer dynamic sound.


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## Marsen (Jul 2, 2021)

Way to much vibrato for me.


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

Given that I have Spitfire Chamber Strings, and VSL Synchronized Chamber Strings, I wonder if I would benefit from buying this one ?


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## doctoremmet (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Given that I have Spitfire Chamber Strings, and VSL Synchronized Chamber Strings, I wonder if I would benefit from buying this one ?


Nah. You’re a good boy and saving up for Sonokinetic, ISW Tokyo Scoring Strings. Thank me later.


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> saving up for Sonikinetic


Oh they have a new strings library coming soon ?


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## musicisum (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Given that I have Spitfire Chamber Strings, and VSL Synchronized Chamber Strings, I wonder if I would benefit from buying this one ?


Well, I think you're good up to point!
For me it's nice having such new libraries when I feel a bit uninspired, which usually happens after 6 months with a library. A bit like with synth presets, as soon as I get to hear some new packs with nice demos and unheard sounds (which still might sound similar to the old presets but still… different and new)

But considering all your chamber libraries I think it's rather worth it to wait a bit, at least until July 15 as it's the last day TCS is on sale


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

I'm also curious, and looking forward to CineSamples upcoming release : *Quatre*

which is another Chamber sized Strings library.

Quote : We are now in the final stage of launch preparation. Quatre is a performance session-strings library recorded with four violins, four violas, four cellos, and three basses. Stay tuned as we reveal more in the coming weeks.


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## biomuse (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I'm also curious, and looking forward to CineSamples upcoming release : *Quatre*
> 
> which is another Chamber sized Strings library.
> 
> Quote : We are now in the final stage of launch preparation. Quatre is a performance session-strings library recorded with four violins, four violas, four cellos, and three basses. Stay tuned as we reveal more in the coming weeks.


Quatre/Fratres - i see what they did there.


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## Casiquire (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I'm also curious, and looking forward to CineSamples upcoming release : *Quatre*
> 
> which is another Chamber sized Strings library.
> 
> Quote : We are now in the final stage of launch preparation. Quatre is a performance session-strings library recorded with four violins, four violas, four cellos, and three basses. Stay tuned as we reveal more in the coming weeks.


Interesting how everyone's doing chamber sized libraries now? Performance Samples, OrchestralTools had TWO this year, VSL Synchron Elite, and now Quatre.


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## biomuse (Jul 2, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Interesting how everyone's doing chamber sized libraries now? Performance Samples, OrchestralTools had TWO this year, VSL Synchron Elite, and now Quatre.


Everybody’s on the small ensemble train now.

Too bad VSL left so much space open by not (yet) including a slurred legato articulation in Elite and thereby broadening its genre applicability.…. ……

…………


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> OrchestralTools had TWO this year


Which ones are those ?


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

biomuse said:


> Too bad VSL left so much space open by not (yet) including a slurred legato articulation in Elite


Is it expected that they will add this via an Update ?


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## Casiquire (Jul 2, 2021)

biomuse said:


> Everybody’s on the small ensemble train now.
> 
> Too bad VSL left so much space open by not (yet) including a slurred legato articulation in Elite and thereby broadening its genre applicability.…. ……
> 
> …………


Also Elite didn't really wow me for some reason. All of Synchron strings seem to have a certain coldness to them and something about the expression just doesn't do it for me. The OT offerings sound stunningly beautiful but are too limited to be a new workhorse. Not enough info to comment on Voyage yet, but the field seems to still be wide open imo


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## Casiquire (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Which ones are those ?


Tallin and Tableau


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Tallin and Tableau


Oh.. Yes, forgot about Tallin, although they are very limited scope wise. 

Also Tableau is limited scope chamber strings. 

Hopefully Voyage, and CineSample's Quatre will offer more, and be more flexible for general use.


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## ism (Jul 2, 2021)

Lee Blaske said:


> Interesting, but I've kind of resolved never again to buy a recorded-at-one-level library. I understand the technical reasons for doing that, but for the one-level libraries I've purchased in the past, they quickly start to sound harsh to me. There's only so much you can do by filtering and decreasing volume level to achieve a softer dynamic sound.




What’s different about this is the arcs, and the face that you can use the legato with any of the arcs. 

You’re still restricted in you dynamics compared by a cross fade. But at the same time, arcs can go where crossfade fear to tread.


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## chapbot (Jul 2, 2021)

If anyone has purchased this could you post a single melodic line of violins with close mics? It's mind-boggling to me that companies do not have demos of the most simple things like this lol


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

I wonder if the *VI-C Legato-Police* has any feedback on the legatos of this library, from the demos posted so far, or the walkthrough.


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## jbuhler (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I wonder if the *VI-C Legato-Police* has any feedback on the legatos of this library, from the demos posted so far, or the walkthrough.


One never summons the legato police.


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## Mike Fox (Jul 2, 2021)

The one dynamic approach is actually pretty effective. Audio Imperia did this with SOLO.


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## musicisum (Jul 2, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> The one dynamic approach is actually pretty effective. Audio Imperia did this with SOLO.


Yeah, and "Solo" definitely sounds freaking great. Majestic Horn has the same approach, certainly the reason of its success...


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## Mike Fox (Jul 2, 2021)

musicisum said:


> Yeah, and "Solo" definitely sounds freaking great. Majestic Horn has the same approach, certainly the reason of its success...


Totally. When done right, it’s clearly beneficial, especially if it does indeed prevent phasing.


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## Casiquire (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I wonder if the *VI-C Legato-Police* has any feedback on the legatos of this library, from the demos posted so far, or the walkthrough.


I find them indulgent and self-insistent and the hazelnut undertones are rather cloying. Next! 😂


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## musicisum (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I wonder if the *VI-C Legato-Police* has any feedback on the legatos of this library, from the demos posted so far, or the walkthrough.


For me they're great for soft, melodic passages, and also quite good for runs with higher velocity values. I keep'em!


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## Cheezus (Jul 2, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> The one dynamic approach is actually pretty effective. Audio Imperia did this with SOLO.


Agreed. The Performance Samples Solo Violins are another great example of this approach IMO.


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## musicisum (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I'm also curious, and looking forward to CineSamples upcoming release : *Quatre*
> 
> which is another Chamber sized Strings library.
> 
> Quote : We are now in the final stage of launch preparation. Quatre is a performance session-strings library recorded with four violins, four violas, four cellos, and three basses. Stay tuned as we reveal more in the coming weeks.


Did they announce its release yet? Didn't follow that much what Cinesamples is up to these days, just know that Mike Patty has gotten the full ownership of the company (or something like that!)


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

musicisum said:


> Did they announce its release yet?


Not yet.

Although it was expected to be out during May, but that didn't happen for some reason/s.


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## musicisum (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Not yet.
> 
> Although it was expected to be out during May, but that didn't happen for some reason/s.





So is that the only info available about quatre?


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

musicisum said:


> So is that the only info available about quatre?



So far, that's it.


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## musicisum (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> So far, that's it.


Ok, well it's not much more than an old-school spitfire-esque teaser
wasn't it kirk hunter or some other developer that had to reschedule their next chamber strings library?
I remember reading something very similar to it on facebook


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## doctoremmet (Jul 2, 2021)

musicisum said:


> Ok, well it's not much more than an old-school spitfire-esque teaser
> wasn't it kirk hunter or some other developer that had to reschedule their next chamber strings library?
> I remember reading something very similar to it on facebook


Sonokinetic


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Sonokinetic


Sonokinetic's Strings is a Symphonic size string section, not chamber sized.


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## musicisum (Jul 2, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Sonokinetic


So no keen, ethic strings then? 
sorry that one was bad lol


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## ism (Jul 2, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Tableau Chamber Strings
> 
> 
> Tableau Chamber Strings delivers rich string sounds with 20 instruments: 5 first violins, 4 second violins, 4 violas, 4 celli, and 3 basses. All instruments were recorded in situ, with musicians in traditional seating positions, to give users the balanced, natural sound of a full chamber...
> ...



Wait a minute, just realized ... did you start this thread that made me buy another library? It's not even 8dio! Nowhere is safe! #curseYouDoctorEmmet!


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## Futchibon (Jul 2, 2021)

musicisum said:


> TCS is for me much more on the agile side as Talinn string-wise – also much less reverb (talinn's reverb is like a 4-second tail), the legatos can do both soft and fast stuff and with a bit of 7th heaven I can blend TCS quite well with the choirs. Talinn's strings are super fine for that sort of "frozen" sound, which the trailer shows very well. Tableau is more traditional, but with that raw, natural sound and a "backed-in musicality" as the samples are definitely not sterile / static but slowly evolve over time (which is a + for me)
> 
> They complete each other very well I find, and the single instrument purchase is what I'd recommend if you're on the fence. Starting with the celli would be the safest bet I guess (I mean that sound for 56€... come on)


Thanks, not on the fence anymore, downloading now! Have been meaning to pick up 7th Heaven for a while too, thanks for the reminder.

Also completed my Tableau solo collection; I had the Viola after everyone raved about it, but the violin and cello should go great with TCS.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 2, 2021)

ism said:


> Wait a minute, just realized ... did you start this thread that made me buy another library? It's not even 8dio! Nowhere is safe! #curseYouDoctorEmmet!


Ah finally. Confirmation.

Okay, thanks for playing along y’all. ISM has bought the library. It’s a wrap. See you next time.


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## musicisum (Jul 2, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> Thanks, not on the fence anymore, downloading now! Have been meaning to pick up 7th Heaven for a while too, thanks for the reminder.
> 
> Also completed my Tableau solo collection; I had the Viola after everyone raved about it, but the violin and cello should go great with TCS.


Great! Don't know if you saw but today also came the news that 7th heaven works *without *the iLok cloud (which was the only option before and frankly quite annoying at times), but with this rather machine-based iLok – so working offline isn't a problem anymore.


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## Easy Pickens (Jul 2, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Ah finally. Confirmation.
> 
> Okay, thanks for playing along y’all. ISM has bought the library. It’s a wrap. See you next time.


The avatar change was a masterstroke. He never knew what hit him.


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## dzilizzi (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Given that I have Spitfire Chamber Strings, and VSL Synchronized Chamber Strings, I wonder if I would benefit from buying this one ?


Yes.


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Yes.


Hmmm... did you buy Tabl.Chamber Strings ?


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## dzilizzi (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hmmm... did you buy Tabl.Chamber Strings ?


LOL! I'm still debating on MSS. For the price? I really thought about it. But after hearing the walkthrough? Probably not. I need more room in my strings. Maybe a better walkthrough would have sold me. 

And I don't really need more strings, but if they sound good, my mind can be changed....


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> LOL! I'm still debating on MSS. For the price? I really thought about it. But after hearing the walkthrough? Probably not. I need more room in my strings. Maybe a better walkthrough would have sold me.
> 
> And I don't really need more strings, but if they sound good, my mind can be changed....


I passed on MSS a long time ago. 

Looking forward to other new options.


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## musicisum (Jul 2, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Yes.


I suggest spinning the wheel for a more accurate response:









YES NO Wheel - Spin the wheel to decide and get Yes or No answer


Just use the Online Yes or No Wheel (Yes No Decision Maker) and get a truly random answer to your question by spinning in one click!




www.homestructions.com


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## dzilizzi (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I passed on MSS a long time ago.
> 
> Looking forward to other new options.


I did but kept an eye on it. The look ahead in the newest update looks really interesting.


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

Sonokinetic's upcoming Strings will also have Look-Ahead feature. Plus Divisi. and much more.


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## dzilizzi (Jul 2, 2021)

musicisum said:


> I suggest spinning the wheel for a more accurate response:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, two out of three said No. I guess not.


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## dzilizzi (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Sonokinetic's upcoming Strings will also have Look-Ahead feature. Plus Divisi. and much more.


I like the room Sonokinetic uses more than the one AudioBro uses.


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I like the room Sonokinetic uses more than the one AudioBro uses.


Yes, it's not a room, but a concert hall. and it makes a huge difference, the timbre of Sonokinetic Strings is fabulous, I never liked Audio Bro's Strings timbre.


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## musicisum (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Yes, it's not a room, but a concert hall. and it makes a huge difference, the timbre of Sonokinetic Strings is fabulous, I never liked Audio Bro's Strings timbre.


is it that one where also 8dio records its stuff?


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## musicisum (Jul 2, 2021)

I mean that one


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

musicisum said:


> is it that one where also 8dio records its stuff?


They might have used it a long time ago for their Adagio strings, but not recently. I'm not 100% sure.


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

Congress Center Concert Hall.


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## Snarf (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> They might have used it a long time ago for their Adagio strings, but not recently. I'm not 100% sure.


Actually, the it's the newer 8Dio instruments like Century and Legion series that were recorded in the same hall as TSFH/TB often uses in Zlín. The older adagio libraries were done in a church building (in America?)
EDIT: Adagio was recorded in a church in the San Francisco area.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

Snarf said:


> Actually, the it's the newer 8Dio instruments like Century and Legion series that were recorded in the same hall as TSFH/TB often uses. The older adagio libraries were done in a church building (in America?)


Yes, that's correct. But I don't think Century Strings were recorded in Congress Concert Hall that Sonokinetic is using for their libraries, and the upcoming Strings library.


----------



## Casiquire (Jul 2, 2021)

Don't sleep on MSS though, i was shocked how much better it was than my expectations. In fact it changed my plan to buy Berlin Strings later. It's a great workhorse library


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2021)

musicisum said:


> I mean that one



Yes, that is Congress Concert Hall. Same as the one Sonokinetic uses.


----------



## musicisum (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Yes, that is Congress Concert Hall. Same as the one Sonokinetic uses.


Oh ok, good to know – concerts hall are awesome I find. Chicago's one that EW used on their EWQLSO is such a good example…


----------



## Snarf (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> But I don't think Century Strings were recorded in Congress Concert Hall


Oops, you're right - it's not the same hall. 8Dio did record the Legion series, AGE 1+2, Majestica & Lacrimosa/8W, CAGE and 'many others' there because of it's flexible nature.


----------



## Jackdaw (Jul 2, 2021)

First I was very much towards this, but after videos I think that vibrato is just all over the place. Sadly gonna skip this.


----------



## biomuse (Jul 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Is it expected that they will add this via an Update ?


I don’t know whether to expect it - I’d hope so; in the Elite thread @Ben indicated that the request was noted.


----------



## biomuse (Jul 2, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Also Elite didn't really wow me for some reason. All of Synchron strings seem to have a certain coldness to them and something about the expression just doesn't do it for me. The OT offerings sound stunningly beautiful but are too limited to be a new workhorse. Not enough info to comment on Voyage yet, but the field seems to still be wide open imo


I know what you mean about Elite but I find that the expressivity is definitely in there; but you’re going to work that modwheel (or, better, touchstrip) and keyswitching hard in order to get it. The ability to change the onset and releases of notes really does add a lot to the ability to get a particular feel, and the work required to put into shaping notes correspondingly means that the notes are indeed very readily shaped. The velocity layer switching is next gen stuff, gorgeous.

Having said that, yeah it drives me a bit bonkers that VI didn’t take the samples they had and just make a connected/slurred legato patch. We proved it could be done.
There is so much great stuff there. It’s like watching your favorite marathoner run almost to the end and then stop and have a snack at mile 25. Maybe in Elite v1.5…

Agreed on the OT stuff.


----------



## dzilizzi (Jul 2, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Don't sleep on MSS though, i was shocked how much better it was than my expectations. In fact it changed my plan to buy Berlin Strings later. It's a great workhorse library


I don't have LASS, so it is $800 on current sale for me, which is a little more than my "that's a great price!" It is almost my whole discretionary spending for the month for things I don't really need.


----------



## Casiquire (Jul 2, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I don't have LASS, so it is $800 on current sale for me, which is a little more than my "that's a great price!" It is almost my whole discretionary spending for the month for things I don't really need.


True, i forget how expensive it is. I guess that puts it in the league of libraries like the aforementioned Berlin or SCS, and while i think it's absolutely at that level, the fact that it was on sale absolutely played a role in me getting it myself. Fair enough!


----------



## dzilizzi (Jul 2, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> True, i forget how expensive it is. I guess that puts it in the league of libraries like the aforementioned Berlin or SCS, and while i think it's absolutely at that level, the fact that it was on sale absolutely played a role in me getting it myself. Fair enough!


My other concern is that after a year MSB had a better sales price than the intro price. I'm willing to wait and save up.


----------



## jbuhler (Jul 2, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> My other concern is that after a year MSB had a better sales price than the intro price. I'm willing to wait and save up.


This is where I am now on MSS. My interest has been piqued but not enough to get it at the current price.


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 3, 2021)

ism said:


> Wait a minute, just realized ... did you start this thread that made me buy another library? It's not even 8dio! Nowhere is safe! #curseYouDoctorEmmet!


How do you like it?


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 3, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Also Elite didn't really wow me for some reason. All of Synchron strings seem to have a certain coldness to them and something about the expression just doesn't do it for me.


I have VSL Elite Strings, and imho. you have so much flexibility in terms of shaping the character of these strings, they don't have a fixed coldness characteristic to them. There is so much you can do to change them via the mix presets, or your own custom mixes. Also adding more EQ, and Reverb to further shape them offers a lot of possibilities, and flexibility of these strings. I think if VSL adds a Legato Slur articulation this library will gain a lot in terms of popularity, and functionality. Hopefully they will.

I haven't spent a lot of time using VSL Elite Strings, although I plan to do so soon, but I have tested them briefly, and all I can say, that it is an amazingly chamber strings library.

I know this is off topic here, since this is thread is about OT-Tableau Chamber Strings.

For those who purchased Tabl. Chamber Strings, how do you like the library so far ? Would love to hear some feedback. (Thanks).

This is a video showing how different it can sound using the various mic options, but one can do a lot more to sculpt them to sound super warm, if needed via additional DSP & Mic combinations.


----------



## Casiquire (Jul 3, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I have VSL Elite Strings, and imho. you have so much flexibility in terms of shaping the character of these strings, they don't have a fixed coldness characteristic to them. There is so much you can do to change them via the mix presets, or your own custom mixes. Also adding more EQ, and Reverb to further shape them offers a lot of possibilities, and flexibility of these strings. I think if VSL adds a Legato Slur articulation this library will gain a lot in terms of popularity, and functionality. Hopefully they will.
> 
> I haven't spent a lot of time using VSL Elite Strings, although I plan to do so soon, but I have tested them briefly, and all I can say, that it is an amazingly chamber strings library.
> 
> ...



I've read people say that, but my ears hear what they hear. I don't think it's about the microphones, i think it's about the room, since Synchron is 3 for 3 on string libraries that lack a certain richness and have a sort of hollow tone. I'm excited to see what the room does to brass though. I think it'll be fantastic, like it is for percussion.

Tableau has a gorgeous sound to me but it's more about the expression than the room. I think Teldex also favors winds and percussion but strings don't suffer nearly as much as they do in the Synchron stage. I'm also curious about the Tableau mics!


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 3, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I've read people say that, but my ears hear what they hear. I don't think it's about the microphones, i think it's about the room, since Synchron is 3 for 3 on string libraries that lack a certain richness and have a sort of hollow tone. I'm excited to see what the room does to brass though. I think it'll be fantastic, like it is for percussion.
> 
> Tableau has a gorgeous sound to me but it's more about the expression than the room. I think Teldex also favors winds and percussion but strings don't suffer nearly as much as they do in the Synchron stage. I'm also curious about the Tableau mics!


Lots of fantastic sounding Soundtracks have been recorded in Synchron Stage, and the strings sound wonderful, so I would have to disagree with you about this detail. imho. there is nothing wrong with Synchron Stage as far as Strings are concerned. It's up to how one uses these samples, and mics.

On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of the stage sound, they used for recording MSS.


----------



## Futchibon (Jul 3, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Given that I have Spitfire Chamber Strings, and VSL Synchronized Chamber Strings, I wonder if I would benefit from buying this one ?


I have SCS but not VSLSCS. I picked up TCS for a number of reasons - I loved the demos, different tone to SCS, I own quite a few Teldex OT libs so this helps complete some of the missing elements, I love the SINE player (some don't!). 

Most of all I find it a very affordable library that brings fresh inspiration to my creativity. Highly recommended!


muziksculp said:


> Oh.. Yes, forgot about Tallin, although they are very limited scope wise.
> 
> Also Tableau is limited scope chamber strings.
> 
> Hopefully Voyage, and CineSample's Quatre will offer more, and be more flexible for general use.


Sure, but I think it's unfair comparing a $150 chamber strings library to ones that will be much more expensive? In terms of bang-for-buck, TCS is hard to beat IMO.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 3, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> I have SCS but not VSLSCS. I picked up TCS for a number of reasons - I loved the demos, different tone to SCS, I own quite a few Teldex OT libs so this helps complete some of the missing elements, I love the SINE player (some don't!).
> 
> Most of all I find it a very affordable library that brings fresh inspiration to my creativity. Highly recommended!
> 
> Sure, but I think it's unfair comparing a $150 chamber strings library to ones that will be much more expensive? In terms of bang-for-buck, TCS is hard to beat IMO.


How do you like the Spicc.s ? 

Can you use them as short Stacc.s ?


----------



## biomuse (Jul 3, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I've read people say that, but my ears hear what they hear. I don't think it's about the microphones, i think it's about the room, since Synchron is 3 for 3 on string libraries that lack a certain richness and have a sort of hollow tone. I'm excited to see what the room does to brass though. I think it'll be fantastic, like it is for percussion.
> 
> Tableau has a gorgeous sound to me but it's more about the expression than the room. I think Teldex also favors winds and percussion but strings don't suffer nearly as much as they do in the Synchron stage. I'm also curious about the Tableau mics!


Did you have a chance to demo the full version with the ribbon mic? You can heat up the low-mid/mid imaging as much as desired (and more than desired). Doesn’t change the sound of the room much, but adds a lot of body. I personally think the surround mic signal is as nice an ambience for strings as I’ve heard, and they all can be eq’d to taste. This may be a case, as with MSS, of the preferences of the demo writers obscuring the possibilities of the library itself. The coldness in my opinion is the result of the vaunted VSL style wherein all - all - the life of the phrase rests in your left hand (or mouse) on the dynamic expression CC, at least for legato sustains. Dead as a doornail without it. And it needs slurred legato, in the high strings especially.

Tableau does have a gorgeously detailed, airy sound which is very charismatic. Just wish it were a deeper library.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 3, 2021)

Yes, I like the way Tableau Chamber Strings audio demos sound, but the walkthrough, was not helpful for me, and didn't tempt me to buy it. 

Maybe future Walkthroughs by other reviewers, or users will change my perception. I agree, given the price it is not going to compete with some of the more heavyweight Chamber Strings libraries that cover a lot more ground than this library. 

But there is something special/unique. and attractive in the audio demos I hear, so I still think it might be useful.


----------



## Futchibon (Jul 3, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> How do you like the Spicc.s ?
> 
> Can you use them as short Stacc.s ?


They're good, but the spiccs from Tableau Solo strings are a real highlight - very 'bitey'! - and I would layer them if attempting to do staccs.


----------



## Toecutter (Jul 3, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I have VSL Elite Strings, and imho. you have so much flexibility in terms of shaping the character of these strings, they don't have a fixed coldness characteristic to them. There is so much you can do to change them via the mix presets, or your own custom mixes. Also adding more EQ, and Reverb to further shape them offers a lot of possibilities, and flexibility of these strings. I think if VSL adds a Legato Slur articulation this library will gain a lot in terms of popularity, and functionality. Hopefully they will.


yep pretty much my main workhorse for a while, if they add slurred legato it will be game over for the others. Sonokinetic and TSS look like nice alternatives but I can already tell they won't come near to Elite's flexibility and (underrated) beautiful chamber sound. Make it happen @Ben


----------



## prodigalson (Jul 3, 2021)

The raw sound is really great but from listening to when he plays the legato patches in the walkthrough I'm struck by exactly why this library would gather dust on my drives. There is a trap with long form performance-sourced legato with single dynamic layers where, when recording the destination sustains there is so much expression in the note that its simply not possible for it to sound natural at any speeds other than the one it which is was sampled. The players simply take too long to "bloom" (to borrow another developer's terminology) so when playing transitions that move before the bloom arrives, it sounds dead, sterile and very unnatural. Which is why I find it really strange that he seems to play very quick nimble figures when noodling. That doesn't seem to me to be the wheelhouse of a library that was sampled this way. I think for this method of sampling to be effective the expression of the destination sustain has to really be in the goldilocks zone of not too long and and not too short.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 3, 2021)

prodigalson said:


> The raw sound is really great but from listening to when he plays the legato patches in the walkthrough I'm struck by exactly why this library would gather dust on my drives. There is a trap with long form performance-sourced legato with single dynamic layers where, when recording the destination sustains there is so much expression in the note that its simply not possible for it to sound natural at any speeds other than the one it which is was sampled. The players simply take too long to "bloom" (to borrow another developer's terminology) so when playing transitions that move before the bloom arrives, it sounds dead, sterile and very unnatural. Which is why I find it really strange that he seems to play very quick nimble figures when noodling. That doesn't seem to me to be the wheelhouse of a library that was sampled this way. I think for this method of sampling to be effective the expression of the destination sustain has to really be in the goldilocks zone of not too long and and not too short.


I get the impression that this is one of these libraries that requires that one write music that works well with the samples, (suitable for the samples), not the other way around.

But having said this, I still like the overall results the demo composers achieved using it.


----------



## Batrawi (Jul 4, 2021)

Sounds very thin (always a problem in small ensembles in a wide space) and the subtle vibrato makes it even sound more thin/saw-y. The legato transitions sound blurry/not clearly glueing with the sustains! This should have been the last thing to expect considering the approach was to capture a legato in a melodic context at a single dynamic!


----------



## VSriHarsha (Jul 4, 2021)

Batrawi said:


> Sounds very thin (always a problem in small ensembles in a wide space) and the subtle vibrato makes it even sound more thin/saw-y.


Which makes it sound more or less synthy.


----------



## VSriHarsha (Jul 4, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I like the room Sonokinetic uses more than the one AudioBro uses.


AudioBro is the developer of LASS, if am not mistaken, right?


----------



## Casiquire (Jul 4, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> AudioBro is the developer of LASS, if am not mistaken, right?


Correct, but LASS and LA Drama Drums were NOT recorded in the same space as MSS and MSB. To my taste, the room and equipment used for MSS results in a warmer sound.



biomuse said:


> Did you have a chance to demo the full version with the ribbon mic? You can heat up the low-mid/mid imaging as much as desired (and more than desired). Doesn’t change the sound of the room much, but adds a lot of body. I personally think the surround mic signal is as nice an ambience for strings as I’ve heard, and they all can be eq’d to taste. This may be a case, as with MSS, of the preferences of the demo writers obscuring the possibilities of the library itself. The coldness in my opinion is the result of the vaunted VSL style wherein all - all - the life of the phrase rests in your left hand (or mouse) on the dynamic expression CC, at least for legato sustains. Dead as a doornail without it. And it needs slurred legato, in the high strings especially.
> 
> Tableau does have a gorgeously detailed, airy sound which is very charismatic. Just wish it were a deeper library.


I wasn't aware that Elite was available to demo. I may try that out just to see if other mic positions help fight against the metallic hollow tone I'm hearing everywhere, but there's an element of "why bother?" It doesn't add anything I'm missing, I'm not crazy about the sound, and i have enough libraries where i need to constantly move the mod wheel. That type of sampling has been around since the beginning so I'm covered and i avoid redundancy and impulsive GAS buys, so they really need to wow me and offer something that makes my life easier or that i don't already have. I also find it hard to believe that there's a "better" sound hidden within the library that nobody's uncovered yet, and if there is, that's really not the best sales pitch for the library either.



muziksculp said:


> I get the impression that this is one of these libraries that requires that one write music that works well with the samples, (suitable for the samples), not the other way around.
> 
> But having said this, I still like the overall results the demo composers achieved using it.


I think you're right. I think that's why I'm going to pass on it even though I like the sound. In the right context it's perfect but how often do i write exactly that? But I'm always keeping an eye on the amazing work Maxime is getting up to.


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 4, 2021)

Anyone looking for slurred legato from VSL Elite; it’s totally achievable with a portamento workaround. I’ve heard it but haven’t tried it.

Some of you know this already.

It takes some extra work. Apparently you switch to port, trigger a note and release it then quickly trigger a regular transition to stop the port, and it sort of gets “continued” with a legato but sounds like a slur. (? I may be describing it wrong.) It sounds great. I might try to make a video about it someday but it’s not a priority for me since I bought Vista and Soaring Strings for slurs (and MSS handles them fine, not to mention the CSS transitions).

Anyway, I don’t expect VSL to add a slurred option based on what I read from @Ben … VSL like the legato they scripted. Ergo I wouldn’t hold my breath on VSL adding a scripted slur.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 4, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Anyone looking for slurred legato from VSL Elite; it’s totally achievable with a portamento workaround. I’ve heard it but haven’t tried it.
> 
> Some of you know this already.
> 
> ...


https://vi-control.net/community/threads/vsl-synchron-elite-strings.108092/post-4827743

I still think they should offer slurred legatos via an update.


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 4, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> i have enough libraries where i need to constantly move the mod wheel.


I’m of the same mind. The more I use MSS and some others the more I feel as though the “need” to move the mod wheel during every legato transition isn’t for me. It should be for (a) corrective measures in case a transition was scripted too quiet or too loud for the part/piece, but mainly (b) moving through dynamic layers across larger phrases as needed.


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 4, 2021)

Ah that’s it! Thanks for the video link. 


muziksculp said:


> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/vsl-synchron-elite-strings.108092/post-4827743


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 4, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Tableau Chamber Strings
> 
> 
> Tableau Chamber Strings delivers rich string sounds with 20 instruments: 5 first violins, 4 second violins, 4 violas, 4 celli, and 3 basses. All instruments were recorded in situ, with musicians in traditional seating positions, to give users the balanced, natural sound of a full chamber...
> ...



The demo pieces sound very good to me. I’m very tempted.


muziksculp said:


> I get the impression that this is one of these libraries that requires that one write music that works well with the samples, (suitable for the samples), not the other way around.
> 
> But having said this, I still like the overall results the demo composers achieved using it.


agree




Casiquire said:


> In the right context it's perfect but how often do i write exactly that?


Yeah it would be an assignment for me lol




Batrawi said:


> Sounds very thin (always a problem in small ensembles in a wide space) and the subtle vibrato makes it even sound more thin/saw-y.


wow are we listening to the same library? 😂 these were not the impressions I had. I thought the vibrato (once it opens up) was huge and [edit: almost exaggerated] and the sound was intimate and detailed/crisp but not thin. Or saw-y. Interesting.


VSriHarsha said:


> Which makes it sound more or less synthy.


I have no idea what you heard that sounded in the least bit synthy. Maybe the walkthrough? I’ve mostly been listening to the fully composed demos and the instrument demos to buy each section individually.


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 4, 2021)

Didn’t hear anything synthy.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 4, 2021)

The Tableau Chamber Strings audio demos sound very good to me. Actually, they are tempting me to buy it.


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 4, 2021)

Annnnd that’s #2.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 4, 2021)

Don't hear any synthyness in any of the audio demos. On the contrary, I hear very natural sounding chamber strings, with a good amount of expressive dynamics, and reasonable/tasteful amount of vibrato baked into the samples.


----------



## Casiquire (Jul 4, 2021)

I agree the demos aren't synthy. They do seem to shine best at very particular speeds though. They're agile for quick turns, expressive for long phrases, but a little funky for those medium quarter notes


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 4, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> They do seem to shine best at very particular speeds though.


Yes, imho. that's a price to pay when using samples with baked in dynamics.


----------



## dzilizzi (Jul 4, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Don't hear any synthyness in any of the audio demos. On the contrary, I hear very natural sounding chamber strings, with a good amount of expressive dynamics, and reasonable/tasteful amount of vibrato baked into the samples.


I heard it in the walkthrough. There's only one demo that is Tableau only. The demos sound good. The walkthrough made me think twice.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 4, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> There's only one demo that is Tableau only


I'm guessing the other instruments they used in the demos, are not more strings from other libraries , but rather other instruments to showcase these chamber strings in context of an orchestration.


----------



## VSriHarsha (Jul 4, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I heard it in the walkthrough. There's only one demo that is Tableau only. The demos sound good. The walkthrough made me think twice.


Exactly! That’s what am talking about. I think they should do another, well, in depth walkthru.


----------



## VSriHarsha (Jul 4, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> The demo pieces sound very good to me. I’m very tempted.
> 
> agree
> 
> ...


Lol! I meant if that’s the case, yes. But I think they will do another detailed walkthru. Thanks.


----------



## holywilly (Jul 5, 2021)

Now I have the right reason waiting for Berlin Strings on SINE, even the Tableau Solo Strings offer more complete articulations.


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 5, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Now I have the right reason waiting for Berlin Strings on SINE, even the Tableau Solo Strings offer more complete articulations.


I played the Berlin first chairs against the Tableau Chamber last night and there’s definitely a different quality here in Tableau.


----------



## holywilly (Jul 5, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I played the Berlin first chairs against the Tableau Chamber last night and there’s definitely a different quality here in Tableau.


Tableau definitely has unique quality against other libraries, I did not need another strings library and yet I really want to pull the trigger on this, to complete my SINE collection. 

How well does Tableau Chamber Strings layer with other libraries? Do anyone tried layering?


----------



## VSriHarsha (Jul 5, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Tableau definitely has unique quality against other libraries, I did not need another strings library and yet I really want to pull the trigger on this, to complete my SINE collection.
> 
> How well does Tableau Chamber Strings layer with other libraries? Do anyone tried layering?


They done with porting with all their libraries to Sine?

Damn! Am I missing something?


----------



## holywilly (Jul 5, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> They done with porting with all their libraries to Sine?
> 
> Damn! Am I missing something?


No, they haven’t done porting. I just own every SINE instrument except Tableau Chamber Strings.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 5, 2021)

holywilly said:


> I did not need another strings library


You always need another strings library, you can never have enough. It's a fact


----------



## thesteelydane (Jul 5, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> You always need another strings library, you can never have enough. It's a fact


I agree with this.


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 5, 2021)

Someone ought to release something like Bunker Strings, Vol.2 My Last Strings Library


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 5, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Tableau definitely has unique quality against other libraries, […] I really want to pull the trigger on this


Yes I want to as well. I might pick up the viola from the soloists as well.
Can anyone explain the “complete my package” philosophy by OT? I want to buy the viola… does that mean the money I spent in the viola will go toward the full package someday? The alternative would be you buy one instrument and the only way to buy the rest of the instruments would be to buy them ALL individually which would be a terrible deal.


----------



## biomuse (Jul 5, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Yes I want to as well. I might pick up the viola from the soloists as well.
> Can anyone explain the “complete my package” philosophy by OT? I want to buy the viola… does that mean the money I spent in the viola will go toward the full package someday? The alternative would be you buy one instrument and the only way to buy the rest of the instruments would be to buy them ALL individually which would be a terrible deal.


I bought the Tallinn choir during the intro deal; then had (positive) second thoughts and took a look at the other components. It would have been more expensive to complete by buying them individually than to go for the bundle. A bit Machiavellian and obviously intended to incentivize jumping for the bundle. All’s fair in love and sample libraries I guess. 

Only caveat: this was during the intro deal. Can’t say for certain whether the same would be true without that condition.


----------



## thesteelydane (Jul 5, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Someone ought to release something like Bunker Strings, Vol.2 My Last Strings Library


It's 80 % done....


----------



## Futchibon (Jul 5, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Yes I want to as well. I might pick up the viola from the soloists as well.
> Can anyone explain the “complete my package” philosophy by OT? I want to buy the viola… does that mean the money I spent in the viola will go toward the full package someday? The alternative would be you buy one instrument and the only way to buy the rest of the instruments would be to buy them ALL individually which would be a terrible deal.


I'm not sure how they calculate it , but yes, if you buy the viola (which i did initially) and then upgrade later to the full package, it will be less than buying the rest individually (but not as cheap as buying the whole package initially).


----------



## jbuhler (Jul 5, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> I'm not sure how they calculate it , but yes, if you buy the viola (which i did initially) and then upgrade later to the full package, it will be less than buying the rest individually (but not as cheap as buying the whole package initially).


I was told roughly 70% of the individual instrument price is applied to completing the bundle.


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 5, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I was told roughly 70% of the individual instrument price is applied to completing the bundle.


Ok then I guess there’s no incentive for me to ever buy individual instruments. 


Futchibon said:


> I'm not sure how they calculate it , but yes, if you buy the viola (which i did initially) and then upgrade later to the full package, it will be less than buying the rest individually (but not as cheap as buying the whole package initially).


Interesting policy, ok thanks!


----------



## Alchemedia (Jul 5, 2021)

What's the general consensus regarding the Sine Player? I'm keen on supporting developers not hell bent on confining us to Kontakt's antiquated prison. NI's latest Landform's debacle may well be the straw that broke the camel's back. No fault of S+A's, natch.


----------



## szczaw (Jul 5, 2021)

I got. The price is good, I quite like the sound, and I don't have any chamber strings. Using cans, tree mics, CC1 is doing drawn halfassed whipsaw, CC11 is static.

View attachment Table.mp3


----------



## jbuhler (Jul 5, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Ok then I guess there’s no incentive for me to ever buy individual instruments.
> 
> Interesting policy, ok thanks!


I think 70% credit is pretty good, tbh, especially for expensive libraries like whatever the JXL Brass is called these days. It’s a great way to test out a major library.


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 5, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I think 70% credit is pretty good, tbh, especially for expensive libraries like whatever the JXL Brass is called these days. It’s a great way to test out a major library.


Yes it might be good / smart for some. I’d rather get the whole thing at the cheapest price I can. Diff’rent strokes.


----------



## biomuse (Jul 5, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I wasn't aware that Elite was available to demo. I may try that out just to see if other mic positions help


It’s not a “demo” precisely; VSL has a 14-day no questions asked return policy.




Casiquire said:


> I also find it hard to believe that there's a "better" sound hidden within the library that nobody's uncovered yet, and if there is, that's really not the best sales pitch for the library either.


To be fair though, that’s what you’ve essentially asserted for MSS, and with which I agree. The possibilities for libraries with depth aren’t always exhausted or even satisfactorily explored by their demos.

Taste might be the issue though; I do like the sound Elite presents right up front. I also like xsample. Dry & bright is sometimes just right. Just not for everything.


----------



## biomuse (Jul 5, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Anyone looking for slurred legato from VSL Elite; it’s totally achievable with a portamento workaround. I’ve heard it but haven’t tried it.
> 
> Some of you know this already.



I came up with the workaround. I’m honestly a little hurt that you folks aren’t calling it “the Biomuse Trick.” Where’s my damn plaque?? (And, yes, unlike Pixelpoet, Biomuse is not my real name. Pixelpoet Baumgartner; nice guy, you should meet him.)



Soundbed said:


> It takes some extra work. Apparently you switch to port, trigger a note and


…then just retrigger the same note when you want the transition to settle. No need to leave portamento mode.



Soundbed said:


> Anyway, I don’t expect VSL to add a slurred option based on what I read from @Ben … VSL like the legato they scripted. Ergo I wouldn’t hold my breath on VSL adding a scripted slur.


I’m afraid you might be right, but man I sure hope you’re wrong. It’s SO self-disabling for VSL to omit something they wouldn’t even need to go back to the studio to include, and that so many would appreciate. Fetishizing one kind of legato above all others just doesn’t make that much sense. There’s a tree to cut down. Here’s a giant silver axe I noticed on the ground. Pick it up!

In one of your video reviews of Elite, you said something like, it has “its thing” going on, it “does what it does.” 

I’m going to take a guess that if they had included a romantic legato patch you wouldn’t have felt that it was as genre-confined. It would have gotten it that much closer to workhorse. 

I’ll go with what I said to Sebastian and Andrew at Audiobro (to which they listened and responded, brilliantly), to @Ben in turn: most people now expect to be able to find that kind of legato in high-end string libraries. Evidence for that was all over the thread.

(I know we’re all supposed to be blending libraries like crazy now, but the effectiveness of that wanes the smaller the ensemble gets. But heck, if Tableau Chamber Strings had more patches, I’d try layering it with Elite where romantic legato is wanted.)

TLDR: It’s a little silly that anyone should need, in 2021, to rely on my jerryrigged workaround to get that kind of legato out of a library like Elite Strings.


----------



## VSriHarsha (Jul 5, 2021)

holywilly said:


> I did not need another strings library


I think that sentence IS prohibited here. lol!


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 5, 2021)

Talking about VSL, it's also odd that their Appassionata Strings (both Synchronized, and VI version) do not have a slurred legato articulation, you would think this would be a must have articulation for a Strings library that is trying to sound romantic, and passionate.  

Oh, and back to Tabl. Chamber Strings, I'm not seeing much being posted on the Commercial Section of the library since it was released. Looks like it's not very popular so far.


----------



## Casiquire (Jul 6, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> You always need another strings library, you can never have enough. It's a fact


You are the most dangerous person in these forums lmao billions of dollars of library purchases can be directly traced back to you


biomuse said:


> It’s not a “demo” precisely; VSL has a 14-day no questions asked return policy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know what, i totally agree and i spent a few hours regretting my MSS decision while it was downloading! Absolutely not the best sales pitch. As far as MSS goes the rollout was rushed and a little sloppy. Is it inconceivable that I'd feel the same way about Elite? Not at all, i give you that



biomuse said:


> (I know we’re all supposed to be blending libraries like crazy now, but the effectiveness of that wanes the smaller the ensemble gets. But heck, if Tableau Chamber Strings had more patches, I’d try layering it with Elite where romantic legato is wanted.)


Ya know, I'm not even that crazy about layering in the first place. It can yield some amazing results in a lot of situations but it's a case by case basis. To my ears it doesn't automagically improve a sound. It's useful for specific effects but it can very quickly make an ensemble sound indistinct and washed out, and the more a person layers the less character each layer retains.


----------



## holywilly (Jul 6, 2021)

I picked Tableau Chamber Stings and play for couple hours and these are my impressions:
1. The overall tonality is nice, it’s lush and full, sounds like the ensemble size is greater than chamber size. 

2. The highlight of this library (IMHO) is the swell articulations, they sound very beautiful and expressive when playing together. 

3. Legatos are kind of disappointed, it’s sluggish, the one single dynamic layer concept doesn’t excel the expressiveness as advertised.

4. Spiccatos are tight and harsh as hell, great for layering to add some bite. I found out that the Spot 2 mic sounds less harsh for some instruments. 

5. Tableau Chamber Strings is ideal to layer with Tallinn Chamber strings, it add warmth and lushness. And the legatos match perfectly. 

6. For the given price of 119Euro, it’s not a bad library. I wish the legatos can be more responsive. 

Think twice if you are getting this library for expressive legato.


----------



## dzilizzi (Jul 6, 2021)

Alchemedia said:


> What's the general consensus regarding the Sine Player? I'm keen on supporting developers not hell bent on confining us to Kontakt's antiquated prison. NI's latest Landform's debacle may well be the straw that broke the camel's back. No fault of S+A's, natch.


If you use ProTools, you have to use something like VEPro as an intermediary because there is no AAX version. Otherwise, it seems to work okay. The mic merge function, where you can create your own mix, is still broken for BSS, but I think it works for the other libraries. For me, CPU and RAM usage is about the same. You can purge unused articulations. And the current version has been mostly stable for me going through VEPro.


----------



## Marsen (Jul 6, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> You can purge unused articulations



What?
Doesn't work for me.
As far as I select a non-purged articulation, all others get loaded back.
Totally annoying. Did I miss something?


----------



## DovesGoWest (Jul 6, 2021)

Can anyone compare these to vista?


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 6, 2021)

Alchemedia said:


> What's the general consensus regarding the Sine Player?


I don't know. Personally I don't mind it but I prefer Synchron and Spitfire's players over SINE (Kontakt is still my favorite, largely out of familiarity I think). I dislike that SINE opens to your libraries, not your current loaded instrument, every time. I don't love that many important features are "buried" in the lower right tabs but I can deal with that and learn it. I dislike the way you need to change its size to see everything (mixer channels) sometimes and you cannot collapse the right gutter to see a wider view of the mixer, and I especially dislike how difficult it is to tell which mics are loaded / solo'd / muted for each instrument (lots of dark on black with thin lines and green boxes...). I dislike the way articulation switching animates in such a way where you cannot see them all at once if there are many because the plugin size is too narrow horizontally. Should have been vertical instead imho, so you can see them all at once including which is selected. I like that you can download libraries but it's sort of a lot of clicks and a bit slow and wasn't working correctly some of the time for me in previous versions (they may have fixed it). I dislike that my controllers don't control the mod wheel on the standalone player for some reason, even when they're "on" (I often open standalone samplers without a DAW to try things out, I know that might be unusual). I don't understand if there's *dynamic* RAM purging; if it's available. Seems you can "purge" the whole articulation (set) but not the unused samples? I don't quite get the mic merge feature yet; seems like you need to decide on a mic mix you prefer and then resave your samples like that? I don't really understand that workflow... I'd rather simply mix my mics, I guess? Need to research that some more maybe to understand if the benefits outweigh the alternative which is more flexible but RAM hungry (although if I could dynamically purge RAM and only load the needed samples I wouldn't need to merge mics, I think?).... The whole overall look and feel is not pleasant for me. Small fonts, larger fonts, dark on dark. The whole thing makes me want to squint and stop and takes me out of the flow. It's gotten a little better since the first versions. Now you can see when a drop down list goes out of the visible area, which you couldn't at first (e.g., MIDI controllers list). Articulation loading is a little weird; again seems like at least one or two extra clicks than should be needed, but oh well. I do like how easy it is to change MIDI channels for a loaded art, but I wish there was a way to have everything you load default to channel 1 (is there?) ... all of these are minor niggles and dislikes, not meant to be a huge rant even if it comes across like that. It's a fine player and it does what it needs to do but definitely not my favorite and not as usable as I'd prefer. As you can tell most of my niggles are relatively minor UI frustrations and not stability / performance related. I don't know how many people share these feelings or thoughts and I don't want this thread about this lovely chamber library to become a SINE thread and actually I hope nobody reads this post. Everyone, just ignore this. I'm not complaining.

I love SINE, really I do. They shouldn't change a thing. 



DovesGoWest said:


> Can anyone compare these to vista?


No.

Okay. Vista is like running slurred legato through a (nice) tape machine, and only has one basic articulation. These are like sitting in on a session with a "characterful" small ensemble and hearing every nuance. A handful of articulations. And a great companion to the more detailed Tableau solo violin, viola and cello which have even more articulations.



biomuse said:


> I came up with the workaround. I’m honestly a little hurt that you folks aren’t calling it “the Biomuse Trick.” Where’s my damn plaque??


Wait, who are you again? (/sarcasm)
In more seriousness I *might* remember that you came up with the workaround, but I'll have to get notes from @Batwari on how to implement your trick. And you might need to come in and explain what I'm doing wrong a few times for it really to sink in, four or ten videos later.


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 6, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> You can purge unused articulations.


well...until you play a note from them and then they are completely loaded again....


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 6, 2021)

holywilly said:


> I picked Tableau Chamber Stings and play for couple hours and these are my impressions:
> 1. The overall tonality is nice, it’s lush and full, sounds like the ensemble size is greater than chamber size.
> 
> 2. The highlight of this library (IMHO) is the swell articulations, they sound very beautiful and expressive when playing together.
> ...


This didn't help me decide.  I am still on the fence. I am thinking I will like these better than Light and Sound which are currently $150 but those don't sound too much better / different than my other dry, clean chamber lib: VSL Elite. I didn't get Tallinn. I am looking for more unusual / characterful sounds these days since I have plenty of bread and butter.


----------



## holywilly (Jul 6, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> This didn't help me decide.  I am still on the fence. I am thinking I will like these better than Light and Sound which are currently $150 but those don't sound too much better / different than my other dry, clean chamber lib: VSL Elite. I didn't get Tallinn. I am looking for more unusual / characterful sounds these days since I have plenty of bread and butter.


Get it! The price is fair, what you’ll get is lush chamber strings ensemble.


----------



## VSriHarsha (Jul 6, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I don't know. Personally I don't mind it but I prefer Synchron and Spitfire's players over SINE (Kontakt is still my favorite, largely out of familiarity I think). I dislike that SINE opens to your libraries, not your current loaded instrument, every time. I don't love that many important features are "buried" in the lower right tabs but I can deal with that and learn it. I dislike the way you need to change its size to see everything (mixer channels) sometimes and you cannot collapse the right gutter to see a wider view of the mixer, and I especially dislike how difficult it is to tell which mics are loaded / solo'd / muted for each instrument (lots of dark on black with thin lines and green boxes...). I dislike the way articulation switching animates in such a way where you cannot see them all at once if there are many because the plugin size is too narrow horizontally. Should have been vertical instead imho, so you can see them all at once including which is selected. I like that you can download libraries but it's sort of a lot of clicks and a bit slow and wasn't working correctly some of the time for me in previous versions (they may have fixed it). I dislike that my controllers don't control the mod wheel on the standalone player for some reason, even when they're "on" (I often open standalone samplers without a DAW to try things out, I know that might be unusual). I don't understand if there's *dynamic* RAM purging; if it's available. Seems you can "purge" the whole articulation (set) but not the unused samples? I don't quite get the mic merge feature yet; seems like you need to decide on a mic mix you prefer and then resave your samples like that? I don't really understand that workflow... I'd rather simply mix my mics, I guess? Need to research that some more maybe to understand if the benefits outweigh the alternative which is more flexible but RAM hungry (although if I could dynamically purge RAM and only load the needed samples I wouldn't need to merge mics, I think?).... The whole overall look and feel is not pleasant for me. Small fonts, larger fonts, dark on dark. The whole thing makes me want to squint and stop and takes me out of the flow. It's gotten a little better since the first versions. Now you can see when a drop down list goes out of the visible area, which you couldn't at first (e.g., MIDI controllers list). Articulation loading is a little weird; again seems like at least one or two extra clicks than should be needed, but oh well. I do like how easy it is to change MIDI channels for a loaded art, but I wish there was a way to have everything you load default to channel 1 (is there?) ... all of these are minor niggles and dislikes, not meant to be a huge rant even if it comes across like that. It's a fine player and it does what it needs to do but definitely not my favorite and not as usable as I'd prefer. As you can tell most of my niggles are relatively minor UI frustrations and not stability / performance related. I don't know how many people share these feelings or thoughts and I don't want this thread about this lovely chamber library to become a SINE thread and actually I hope nobody reads this post. Everyone, just ignore this. I'm not complaining.
> 
> I love SINE, really I do. They shouldn't change a thing.
> 
> ...


You know I saw this video, done by Alex Pfeffer? He demonstrated few things you can do with Sine & it was like, seriously? I am not a fan but that makes it download Sine. I mean he demonstrated things like you can stack up articulations & play all in one damn patch. I mean that’s my fav. So just stack up legato, tremolo & staccato/spiccatos maybe too, well, depending on the available articulations.


----------



## Marsen (Jul 7, 2021)

I don't like SINE. It's not a finished product.
As Soundbed pointed out, the graphics are dark, difficult to see.
The whole Mixer window is just a mess.
If I open it, I always wanna close it immediately.

Why does the keyboard disappear, if you change a page?
Purge functions does not work properly.

The only good thing, I can say is, it's stable.
Thats important, sure.

End of rant, and I apologize for the off-topic.
And for a bit of positive input: I love Orchestral Tools, and have highest respect for their work.

Back to Tableau Strings.


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 7, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> You know I saw this video, done by Alex Pfeffer? He demonstrated few things you can do with Sine & it was like, seriously? I am not a fan but that makes it download Sine. I mean he demonstrated things like you can stack up articulations & play all in one damn patch. I mean that’s my fav. So just stack up legato, tremolo & staccato/spiccatos maybe too, well, depending on the available articulations.


I will look for the video. But I meant by default have new articulations defaulting to channel one. I know you can set them to the same chanel (like every other sampler).


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 7, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Get it! The price is fair, what you’ll get is lush chamber strings ensemble.


Yes I got it last night and it downloaded. I couldn't wait to play it this morning, so I made a video. No coffee. Just waking up. I think it's about exactly what I expected (the library, not my video).

YouTube is still "processing" the video. Time for coffee.


----------



## holywilly (Jul 7, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Yes I got it last night and it downloaded. I couldn't wait to play it this morning, so I made a video. No coffee. Just waking up. I think it's about exactly what I expected (the library, not my video).
> 
> YouTube is still "processing" the video. Time for coffee.


What do you think of this library?


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 7, 2021)

YT is still processing the HD and 2K versions but here's the link in the meantime.



There's also some silences I'll need to edit out which will mess up my chapters below.
0:00 Violas
14:30 Celli and Mics
22:08 Violins 1
28:15 Violins 2
32:16 Basses
37:12 ALL / Combos



holywilly said:


> What do you think of this library?


I listened to the demos so much, it pretty much sounds like I expected.

Actually the THREE different Legato approaches went a bit under the radar in the previous discussions, I think. OT could probably add them to the articulations list, to reflect what we can actually choose.


Sustains + Leg
Sustains Soft + Leg
Sustains Accented + Leg
The soft ones have a slight crescendo or "bloom". The Accents have different Legato transitions from what I could tell so it really seems like a third "legato" in use.

Also it seemed — I might be mistaken — that the legato transitions were chromatically sampled? Someone can correct me; it was early and I began spacing out a bit while recording.

I like all the mics — I always like OT AB mics and the spot + tree with a little AB sounds great to me. The bottle mic on the cello also sounds good.

..Was pretty confused because I thought there was a way to turn on Legato while using the swells, but I guess not. (?)

Also I spent a while trying to do faster passages / run-like figures with Violins 2 and a bit of Violin 1 and it sounds about how I'd expect. It's not Josh Bell but it's not trying to sound virtuoso I don't think. And it's not too bad; you need to work with it just like any other sample library trying to do run-like figures and faster passages. It doesn't sound "bad" to me but I'm not a *Legato Police™* officer myself. I could have tried harder to show it in the best light but ... did I mention it was first thing in the morning before coffee?

The shorts are pretty awesome I think. Maybe a bit limited in a sense, but four good round robins at various velocities are better than 12 annoying round robins imho.

Most of the criticisms I read from people who were only listening to the walkthrough or the demos don't really seem overly important to me ... the sound is great, "full" (not thin) esp. with the Tree mics, the playing is excellent.

I suppose the main criticisms that I agree with are that occasionally the crescendos in the same category (long, short) aren't exactly the same length but oh well I can (personally) write around the samples and start one earlier or later than the other(s) if needed.

And yes there's no staccato or pizz but the soloists have those articulations if you want to pay more for them (insert transposition trick etc here). I don't really need Stacc or Pizz personally for this price, and the price is appropriate. I guess trills would be nice but again the stuff that's "missing" is covered by the soloists. I will probably buy the soloists now / later today, maybe, possibly. Need to watch my spending because Pacific is on the way too lol.

And you can never have too many strings libraries.


----------



## dzilizzi (Jul 7, 2021)

Marsen said:


> What?
> Doesn't work for me.
> As far as I select a non-purged articulation, all others get loaded back.
> Totally annoying. Did I miss something?


Sorry, I may have missed that part. I am running through a secondary computer and VEPro, so I didn't notice that.


----------



## VSriHarsha (Jul 7, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I will look for the video. But I meant by default have new articulations defaulting to channel one. I know you can set them to the same chanel (like every other sampler).


Yea, I know that problem. Must change manually, every time. I they gonna fix this thing.


----------



## VSriHarsha (Jul 7, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Get it! The price is fair, what you’ll get is lush chamber strings ensemble.


Lush Chamber Strings! Whenever I hear that I think of Sir Neville Mariner & the Academy of St. Martin in the fields.


----------



## dzilizzi (Jul 7, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> YT is still processing the HD and 2K versions but here's the link in the meantime.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for doing this. 

It does sound much better than I was hearing from the walkthrough. I'm still hearing a little synthy-ness, but I think it is the same I hear with every string library when the mod wheel isn't used. I mean, I can make SSO/BS sound like a string machine easily. 

Well, now I'm thinking about getting it.


----------



## VSriHarsha (Jul 7, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Thanks for doing this.
> 
> It does sound much better than I was hearing from the walkthrough. I'm still hearing a little synthy-ness, but I think it is the same I hear with every string library when the mod wheel isn't used.


It won’t respond to the modwheel?


----------



## dzilizzi (Jul 7, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> It won’t respond to the modwheel?


When you use both hands to play a chord, it is hard to move the mod wheel at the same time, unless you have a foot controller. Thus full chord sustains tend to sound very synthy with strings unless you go back and fix the midi. There's other things that can make strings synthy, but that is the main thing for me. Close mics go synthy very easily for some reason. You'd think the bow sound so close would counteract it. And this is my opinion. Everyone hears things differently. 

Paul Thompson has a few videos on playing string libraries that taught me a lot. I went from feeling very frustrated that all my expensive string libraries sounded as bad as the cheap ones they were supposed to replace to actually getting a nice sound out of them.


----------



## pipedr (Jul 7, 2021)

Wonderful walkthrough, very helpful.

When you demonstrate the sustains, are you riding any cc's, or are we hearing the baked in expression?

Are you able to change the length of crescendos/decrescendos/swells, or are they set as long and short?


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 7, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I'm still hearing a little synthy-ness, but I think it is the same I hear with every string library when the mod wheel isn't used. I mean, I can make SSO/BS sound like a string machine easily


Yep I’m pretty good at making decent sample libraries sound like a monkey playing a kazoo.


pipedr said:


> Wonderful walkthrough, very helpful.
> 
> When you demonstrate the sustains, are you riding any cc's, or are we hearing the baked in expression?
> 
> Are you able to change the length of crescendos/decrescendos/swells, or are they set as long and short?


The mod wheel is visible in the first section with the violas. Yes I was playing both with mod and expression on occasion but largely was not, because I do like to hear the scripted transitions first… 

I didn’t notice a way to change the duration of cresc or decresc or swells etc. 



VSriHarsha said:


> It won’t respond to the modwheel?



It does. But with one dynamic layer I didn’t spend the majority of the video “sculpting” phrases with CC; I mostly listened to the scripted transitions esp after the violas. The cc controls mostly make things louder/quieter as I understand. Well or turn off vibrato like I demonstrated for (I think) the violins.


----------



## chapbot (Jul 7, 2021)

Yes you can apply two types of legato to swells, decrescendos and crescendos.


----------



## AEF (Jul 7, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> YT is still processing the HD and 2K versions but here's the link in the meantime.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great walkthrough.

my issue with the shorts is it seems the violins and celli are playing the spiccato one way and the violas are more staccatissimo. I wish the violins and celli were played the way the violas were.


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 7, 2021)

chapbot said:


> Yes you can apply two types of legato to swells, decrescendos and crescendos.


Didn’t work for me. What are the steps?

I was trying around 6:08 in the video … after a while of trying, I moved on (gave up trying).



AEF said:


> Great walkthrough.
> 
> my issue with the shorts is it seems the violins and celli are playing the spiccato one way and the violas are more staccatissimo. I wish the violins and celli were played the way the violas were.


Oh yes I couldn’t put my finger on it but I think I understand what you mean. I don’t know if I’ll mind the slight inconsistency in practice, yet, esp because they both sounded good to me.


----------



## VSriHarsha (Jul 7, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> When you use both hands to play a chord, it is hard to move the mod wheel at the same time, unless you have a foot controller. Thus full chord sustains tend to sound very synthy with strings unless you go back and fix the midi. There's other things that can make strings synthy, but that is the main thing for me.


I think that’s reasonable.


dzilizzi said:


> Close mics go synthy very easily for some reason. You'd think the bow sound so close would counteract it. And this is my opinion. Everyone hears things differently.


Yea that’s true but what you think about close mics for the 8Dio String libraries? 8Dios Close mics are good, but mono. Yea, of course Close Mics are always mono, from what I know & heard but I wonder if it’s possible to make them stereo, when sampling. It’s ok for me but just thinking things out just in case gives more options, if at all.


dzilizzi said:


> Paul Thompson has a few videos on playing string libraries that taught me a lot. I went from feeling very frustrated that all my expensive string libraries sounded as bad as the cheap ones they were supposed to replace to actually getting a nice sound out of them.


That’s sad to hear but what you did was a good thing, watching the videos. If it’s ok to ask, so far how many String libraries have you got & how many of those you don’t like, or at the least, not satisfactory for your ears. Also, do you have specific favs for specific genres that you would prefer?

Paul & Christian, both are good and You know sometimes I think Guy Michelmore’s demonstrations are more breezy than many out there.


----------



## VSriHarsha (Jul 7, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Yep I’m pretty good at making decent sample libraries sound like a monkey playing a kazoo.
> 
> The mod wheel is visible in the first section with the violas. Yes I was playing both with mod and expression on occasion but largely was not, because I do like to hear the scripted transitions first…
> 
> ...


Thanks for your video, I watched it. I felt, well, this is just me, that the Shorts sucked for the Violins, Violas & Cellos( a little better, than the above). Basses, yes, I liked much better than any of those. 
Legato sounded like as if it’s losing its connectivity. Swells were just ok.


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 8, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Thanks for your video, I watched it. I felt, well, this is just me, that the Shorts sucked for the Violins, Violas & Cellos( a little better, than the above). Basses, yes, I liked much better than any of those.
> Legato sounded like as if it’s losing its connectivity. Swells were just ok.


Interesting. Hope the video was helpful. I look forward to writing something and taking time to make the library sound a bit better.


----------



## dzilizzi (Jul 8, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> I think that’s reasonable.
> 
> Yea that’s true but what you think about close mics for the 8Dio String libraries? 8Dios Close mics are good, but mono. Yea, of course Close Mics are always mono, from what I know & heard but I wonder if it’s possible to make them stereo, when sampling. It’s ok for me but just thinking things out just in case gives more options, if at all.
> 
> ...


Truthfully, I don't really do classical music. Most of the stuff I do is pop/rock, with some ambient thrown in. I initially came here to find out how to add strings and horns to my music. Then the collector in me got sucked in, and I found there was more to orchestral music than the boring, heavy stuff my dad listens to. (My mom had better taste in classical music, IMO) I like scoring to picture, even if it is just for fun. It is a lot more openly creative for me because you don't have to "follow the rules" of most classical music. 

I don't even know how many string libraries I have. Technically, it is over 40 if you count everything that has strings, and maybe closer to 70? Or more? Okay, more. Some are just one instrument. Others are ensembles. I've also included the "other" string category in this like Analog Strings. I can't say any of them are bad, just that I don't know how to use some of them to make them sound good. Some are much easier to make sound good than others. Any individual sections are usually easier to make sound good than ensemble strings made up of multiple sections. I pretty much never use Albion One, but Tundra's flautandos are easy to make sound good in the way they are supposed to sound. 

One of the things I have learned over the years is, that if you want a VI to sound real, you have to understand the instrument itself and the mechanics of how it is played. Paul's and some of Christian's tutorials cover this more than Guy does. But Guy is definitely more entertaining.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 8, 2021)




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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jul 8, 2021)

Hey all! Just popping in to share my impressions. I personally like the legato style, although some of the transitions aren’t as long as I’d like. However, they sound best to me when combined with a larger section, for extra detail and texture. The amount of vibrato swell that comes in on the regular sustains might be a tad much to some, so that’s something to consider. 

I tend not to use these types of short all too much, so personally it doesn’t bother me that there’s really only one short note type.


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## AEF (Jul 8, 2021)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Hey all! Just popping in to share my impressions. I personally like the legato style, although some of the transitions aren’t as long as I’d like. However, they sound best to me when combined with a larger section, for extra detail and texture. The amount of vibrato swell that comes in on the regular sustains might be a tad much to some, so that’s something to consider.
> 
> I tend not to use these types of short all too much, so personally it doesn’t bother me that there’s really only one short note type.


great review chris. i still cant understand why they chose spiccatissimo for the violins and celli and a more usable spiccato-staccatissimo in the violas and basses.


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## muziksculp (Jul 8, 2021)

AEF said:


> great review chris. i still cant understand why they chose spiccatissimo for the violins and celli and a more usable spiccato-staccatissimo in the violas and basses.


And I can't understand why they left out a basic strings articulation : Staccato. I could live without Pizz.

This library sounds good in general, but imho. it is so restricted in terms of usage/applications. Even the dynamic patches are not easy to use, or fit into a phrase if the tempo is not matching the rate of the dynamic changes in the samples.

I don't really know how experienced @Maxime is with regards to orchestral string writing, but surely not the type of Chamber Strings articulations I was hoping to have in a chamber strings library, if I wanted it to be very flexible, and agile. It's just the opposite.


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## chapbot (Jul 8, 2021)

I completely agree with ChrisSiuMusic, I purchased this and would not use it by itself. However it will be fantastic for layering and adding detail.

The sections have a lovely unprocessed realistic tone.

I prefer adding legato to the swells and decrescendo articulations over the actual legato sustains.

The spic articulations are crisp and have a nice bite.

I don't know if I would even buy it at the full price but definitely is worth it at the introductory rate. Tableau is what I would call an enhancement library... It will enhance my other strings.


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## muziksculp (Jul 8, 2021)

chapbot said:


> I prefer adding legato to the swells and decrescendo articulations over the actual legato sustains.


Do you mean adding/layering a Legato Sustain from another strings library with the OT Tabl. Chamber Strings Swells ? I wonder what that accomplishes ? You would have a swell and legato playing together. Does that sound realistic ?


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## chapbot (Jul 8, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Do you mean adding/layering a Legato Sustain from another strings library with the OT Tabl. Chamber Strings Swells ? I wonder what that accomplishes ? You would have a swell and legato playing together. Does that sound realistic ?


Within the Sine player you can, oddly enough, add a legato transition to any articulation (well, I guess you can't to a short.) For Tableau they give you a choice of a soft or a regular legato. So I, for instance, select a decrescendo medium sustain articulation then add the regular legato transition and it magically turns that sustain into a legato patch. It's really sounds quite good I'll try and post an example later.


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## muziksculp (Jul 8, 2021)

chapbot said:


> So I, for instance, select a decrescendo medium sustain articulation then add the regular legato transition and it magically turns that sustain into a legato patch. It's really sounds quite good I'll try and post an example later.


Thanks. 

Yes, I'm aware of these features of the SINE player.

So, you are using both the Regular Sustain Legato, with a decrescendo medium sustain (with legato enabled), so you hear both patches layered together. I'm trying to imagine what does the decrescendo medium sustain (Legato) do to improve the regular Sustain Legato ? Make it more expressive maybe ? 

If you have some time to post a short audio example of this it would be interesting to hear the resulting sound.


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## chapbot (Jul 8, 2021)

Here we go with samples!

#1 violins 2, Decrescendo Medium with legato

#2 violins 2, regular legato/sustains

#3 cellos, Decrescendo Medium with legato

violins 1 do not have swells/decrescendo


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## chapbot (Jul 8, 2021)

Screenshots show 3 steps to applying legato to articulations.


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## muziksculp (Jul 8, 2021)

Hi @chapbot ,

Thank You so much for the audio examples, and pics. This was very helpful.  

So, the Violins 2 , and Celli Decrescendo-Medium Legato audio examples, you are just using the Decrescendo-Med with Legato enabled, with no other articulation mixed in. 

I like the way these decrescendo-med. Legatos sound, imho. they sound much nicer than the regular Sustain-Legato. Although it's a bummer there are no Decrescendos for Violins 1, I wonder why they didn't include them. Very odd decisions.


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## Flyo (Jul 8, 2021)

@OrchestralTools Why the new Tableu Strings doesn’t have same articulations for Violins 1 as the others?

Gorgeous sound indeed


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## Soundbed (Jul 8, 2021)

chapbot said:


> Here we go with samples!
> 
> #1 violins 2, Decrescendo Medium with legato
> 
> ...


Ok so they don’t exactly legato the way I’d expected. I thought the recorded dynamic change would legato into the “same” approximate portion of the gesture. I think 8Dio does it that way. So if you have a long decrescendo and legato halfway through I thought it would play the second half with the new note. Instead SINE/Tableau legatos into starting over the dynamic change again from near the beginning. Now I understand.


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## chapbot (Jul 8, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @chapbot ,
> 
> Thank You so much for the audio examples, and pics. This was very helpful.
> 
> ...


I got you, Boo


----------



## VSriHarsha (Jul 8, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Interesting. Hope the video was helpful. I look forward to writing something and taking time to make the library sound a bit better.


Thanks for taking your time in doing the video.


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 8, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Truthfully, I don't really do classical music. Most of the stuff I do is pop/rock, with some ambient thrown in. I initially came here to find out how to add strings and horns to my music.


Pop/Rock sounds good. I think you must be having Kirk Hunter’s Virtuoso Ensembles too. Many here & outta VI-C mentioned it’s pretty good for.

I actually came to learn things about layering.


dzilizzi said:


> I found there was more to orchestral music than the boring, heavy stuff my dad listens to. (My mom had better taste in classical music, IMO) I like scoring to picture, even if it is just for fun. It is a lot more openly creative for me because you don't have to "follow the rules" of most classical music.


Yes, I agree with. I was trained Classically. I still remember I played like 9 Beethoven Sonatas, few Mozart & some FJ Haydn as well. I think it was after playing the 3rd Mvt of Beethoven’s 9th Sonata, I realized & that ‘s not what I wanna do. Every time when playing Classical Music(well, let’s just say playing someone else’s music, which was played a million times by a million pianists), I felt a lotta things like you gotta be careful of, while presenting & yes, I less care about critics but there they’re & it gives this odd feeling, beyond the anxieties & fear. But that’s Classical. They won’t leave no one. That’s one of the main reasons Daniel Barenboim initially did not get much attention in performing but he believed in what he did & he didn’t wanna just stick with what Beethoven had to say or believe. You know, from what I’ve known(more or less), Beethoven never liked the concept of rubato. I don’t know how much of that is true but Yes, it’s a technique, but no, not to him. 
There’s a masterclass where Daniel even demonstrates rubato to the students & he recommends. I think since at least like 15 or 29 years, the Classical purists are taking easy & welcoming methods. Wilhelm Kempff’s interpretation of Beethoven’s my fav, followed by Brendel.

But Classical still got these loop holes, despite some millions of beautiful music. And yes, I agree, there are long pieces & go Mahler, you can find a 30 minute Mvt? Now, that’s just one Mvt lol. Maybe close to 30 I don’t remember much but that’s that.

Scoring Films, yes, it IS pretty gratifying.
I like doing, if possible, all kind of music, well, not much of rap & dub step. If a little,


dzilizzi said:


> I don't even know how many string libraries I have. Technically, it is over 40 if you count everything that has strings, and maybe closer to 70? Or more? Okay, more.


Wow 70? :emoji_astonished:I am like a baby. Lol! But it’s just nice to hear the number. I am sure you find use for all. Nice having many options




dzilizzi said:


> Some are just one instrument. Others are ensembles. I've also included the "other" string category in this like Analog Strings. I can't say any of them are bad, just that I don't know how to use some of them to make them sound good. Some are much easier to make sound good than others. Any individual sections are usually easier to make sound good than ensemble strings made up of multiple sections. I pretty much never use Albion One, but Tundra's flautandos are easy to make sound good in the way they are supposed to sound.


You know outta VI-C, we were having this argument a week back or something, regarding the consideration of the string libraries. There are people out there, I just don’t understand, but consider it a String library, only if it has a legato patch.
And I directed them towards the Performance Samples String library which has just that & asked their opinion 
“You know it’s pretty eye opening” their reaction.
I think it IS a string library, with or without a legato, right?
That’s what I said.
You have Albions that’s great. I must admit you DO have great collection. And you have Ensembles & sections. This is very, very helpful. I see you like working with sections I love that but do you also work just with a String patch, with o


dzilizzi said:


> One of the things I have learned over the years is, that if you want a VI to sound real, you have to understand the instrument itself and the mechanics of how it is played.


Absolutely Yes, that’s BASIC!


dzilizzi said:


> Paul's and some of Christian's tutorials cover this more than Guy does. But Guy is definitely more entertaining.


That’s what I think too.


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## sumskilz (Jul 8, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> 8Dios Close mics are good, but mono. Yea, of course Close Mics are always mono, from what I know & heard but I wonder if it’s possible to make them stereo, when sampling.


Generally a close mic is pointed at where the instrument is bowed. This becomes the focal point of the instrument, which can then be placed in a specific position within the stereo field. A stereo close mic would result in an instrument not really being in a particular position but rather different parts of the instrument's sound being spread across the stereo field. For example, brightness could be more to one side whereas the body of the instrument is more to the other, or the bow sound could be more to one side while you sense the fingerboard is more to the other side. Obviously this sort of exaggerated stereo image would be very unnatural. Whereas a mono close mic can be used to reinforce the position of an instrument in the distant mics, a stereo close mic would disrupt the distant mics' imaging. While stereo close miking is sometimes done on guitars to make the sound bigger than life, you can see why it wouldn't be done when instruments are supposed to sound natural. Also, phase can become a big issue when blending stereo close and stereo distant mics.


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## dzilizzi (Jul 9, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Pop/Rock sounds good. I think you must be having Kirk Hunter’s Virtuoso Ensembles too. Many here & outta VI-C mentioned it’s pretty good for.
> 
> I actually came to learn things about layering.
> 
> ...


There's a lot of things I include in my "strings" libraries count that aren't just strings. Like the Albions, Arks, Jaeger, Majestica, etc... If you are just counting actual strings only libraries, it is a lot less. And I don't own CSS. Yet. 

I also have things like Joshua Bell and Spitfire Soloists. And recently got the BS first chairs. I haven't used them too much. I am still learning a lot, though in the last couple months, I kind of lost motivation. I think making a template and using 2 computers with VEPro wasn't such a good idea, as it suddenly went from being fun to overwhelming. I have too many libraries.


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 9, 2021)

sumskilz said:


> Generally a close mic is pointed at where the instrument is bowed. This becomes the focal point of the instrument, which can then be placed in a specific position within the stereo field. A stereo close mic would result in an instrument not really being in a particular position but rather different parts of the instrument's sound being spread across the stereo field. For example, brightness could be more to one side whereas the body of the instrument is more to the other, or the bow sound could be more to one side while you sense the fingerboard is more to the other side. Obviously this sort of exaggerated stereo image would be very unnatural. Whereas a mono close mic can be used to reinforce the position of an instrument in the distant mics, a stereo close mic would disrupt the distant mics' imaging. While stereo close miking is sometimes done on guitars to make the sound bigger than life, you can see why it wouldn't be done when instruments are supposed to sound natural.


Thanks & that was pretty clear. I think it’s best to know these things, particularly when sampling


sumskilz said:


> Also, phase can become a big issue when blending stereo close and stereo distant mics.


That IS true.


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 9, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> There's a lot of things I include in my "strings" libraries count that aren't just strings. Like the Albions, Arks, Jaeger, Majestica, etc... If you are just counting actual strings only libraries, it is a lot less. And I don't own CSS. Yet.


Wow! The Arks. Do they have like only 1 dynamic layer? No, wait! That’s not Ark. Yea, I think Arks have multiple dynamic levels. I have to look at their walkthrus another time. And it’s great that you have Jaeger & the Albions. Oh Majestica IS my fav I still gotta get it.
Is it true that AI is planning on releasing Jaeger Lite?
Nothing to wonder I actually thought they would.
CSS is Cinematic Studio Strings right? I think you’ll get it sometime. And from I know, I think if you own any of their libraries, you’ll also be eligible for the loyalty discount? on their other products.


dzilizzi said:


> I also have things like Joshua Bell and Spitfire Soloists. And recently got the BS first chairs. I haven't used them too much.


Embertones great for their legatos. I have their Ivory Wind which is just beautiful. I did not use it any but is it advisable to use it, as in to replace Flute, if at all? I just love the tone.
Yea, I heard about the Spitfire soloists but are they done releasing all of them. When I last checked it only showed Violin & Cello. Maybe I forgot I’ll check that.
BS first chairs are these on Sine, already?
Edit: Yea, I checked it’s on Sine. 5 Lead instruments.



dzilizzi said:


> I am still learning a lot, though in the last couple months, I kind of lost motivation. I think making a template and using 2 computers with VEPro wasn't such a good idea, as it suddenly went from being fun to overwhelming. I have too many libraries.


I am sure you can find motivation. I don’t follow a specific template, but an already thinkin’ about. OTOH, yes, that makes it easy, when working. You don’t have to worry on certain things. And 2 machines, yes, very efficient.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 10, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Yea, I heard about the Spitfire soloists but are they done releasing all of them. When I last checked it only showed Violin & Cello.


Spitfire Solo Strings comprises of vln1, vln2, cello, viola and bass too. And has performance patches for violin and cello.


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## Soundbed (Jul 10, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Spitfire Solo Strings comprises of vln1, vln2, cello, viola and bass too. And has performance patches for violin and cello.


fwiw Spitfire Solo Strings has three different violin players with three different styles. They aren’t really 1 & 2. They were recorded in different parts of the room but not necessarily in situ. 

“solo violin can be played in three distinct modes and was performed by three distinctly different players: Virtuoso, 1st Desk and Progressive, each containing not only their own range of articulations, but also a range of recording locations in the hall and different styles of performance.”


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 10, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Spitfire Solo Strings comprises of vln1, vln2, cello, viola and bass too. And has performance patches for violin and cello.


Yea, I checked it just shows the SSV $99 & SSC $99. Just 2 libraries. It did not show anything like Spitfire solo Strings.

Edit: Just checked it. Well, I don’t have their BIG libraries yet, I use to search & even now, I searched the View All $100 section & that’s why it wasn’t showing. Wait, no, that’s not it. I tried looking just for Strings & it did not but I just checked the View All & not the search & yes, it popped out. But then, I figured out only Violin & Cello are available individually. So yes, if you wanna buy the remaining, should get the main library which contains all the instruments. Thanks anyway.


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## ism (Jul 10, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Yea, I checked it just shows the SSV $99 & SSC $99. Just 2 libraries. It did not show anything like Spitfire solo Strings.











Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Solo Strings






www.spitfireaudio.com


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 10, 2021)

ism said:


> Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Solo Strings
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I checked it it showed up. But you know the individual Violin & Cello libraries available ?


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## ism (Jul 10, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> I checked it it showed up. But you know the individual Violin & Cello libraries available ?


Yes the performance patches (though not all articulations) of the Vl and Vc are also available separately.


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## holywilly (Jul 10, 2021)

How are the Tableau Chamber Strings owner liking this library so far? I wish there are screencasts of the official audio demos.


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## Soundbed (Jul 10, 2021)

holywilly said:


> How are the Tableau Chamber Strings owner liking this library so far? I wish there are screencasts of the official audio demos.


I agree with several of the things @ChrisSiuMusic said:

Using it as a layering tool, particularly with other OT strings libraries, is smart. I find it blends perfectly with Ark 2, which has (I think) a violins, a violas, and a cellos+basses (in octaves) legato patches, making it very good for layering underneath. It’s also got some half sordino sections as I recall which really helps soften things up. MSS will also probably sound great under Tableau Chamber because it blends so well (with anything).

But I don’t feel the “need” to layer it … I added a little saturation and compression (more later) and reverb and it can sound pretty big — for its size — when you get the violas, cellos and basses going and don’t feature the violins too loudly. 

The legato (soft legato I think?) in Tableau I found sounded ‘on time’ at about -190ms. But you need to move the first notes of a phrase forward, of course. 

I’m still wondering about the comment that it sounds “thin” to some. To me that might only apply to the violins… which I can easily tame with a bit of Soothe2 and some saturation and EQ. 

There are also definitely some louder notes popping out. I needed to do some extreme and quick automation to tame them. A little smooth compression can also help. I tried SPL Iron with some gentle settings. 

EDIT: as for the legato, it sounds better on certain transitions when multiple parts start playing (not too exposed). As a library meant to be expressive, it’s not the most consistent but that’s okay by me. 

There are a couple places people might question the tuning (even within the players on a note in a section) but in the larger context it shouldn’t be a huge issue.


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 10, 2021)

holywilly said:


> How are the Tableau Chamber Strings owner liking this library so far? I wish there are screencasts of the official audio demos.


I don’t have it yet, but I’ve seen another walkthru. I think it’s just good for what it is & heard that it performs much better, when layered with.


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## Futchibon (Jul 10, 2021)

holywilly said:


> How are the Tableau Chamber Strings owner liking this library so far? I wish there are screencasts of the official audio demos.


Really enjoying it. Complements BSS, First Chairs and Special Bows, and of course Tableau solo strings


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## dzilizzi (Jul 10, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Wow! The Arks. Do they have like only 1 dynamic layer? No, wait! That’s not Ark. Yea, I think Arks have multiple dynamic levels. I have to look at their walkthrus another time. And it’s great that you have Jaeger & the Albions. Oh Majestica IS my fav I still gotta get it.
> Is it true that AI is planning on releasing Jaeger Lite?
> Nothing to wonder I actually thought they would.
> CSS is Cinematic Studio Strings right? I think you’ll get it sometime. And from I know, I think if you own any of their libraries, you’ll also be eligible for the loyalty discount? on their other products.
> ...


Truthfully, I'm not sure about dynamic layers. I just play them. Mostly it's a lot of, I have a sound in my head, try them all until one works or inspires something different. Sometimes having so many choices is great, other times, I waste so much time looking through them all instead of just making one work. And yes, I will probably get CSS and the rest eventually. And now TCS to add to it. LOL!


----------



## ism (Jul 10, 2021)

I'm generally quite obsessed with dynamics and dynamic layers. And while more is usually, all things being equal, better, it's also often not that simple.

Ark 2 is a good example. The strings have 2 dynamic layers. For a traditional general purpose string library, 3 is usually enough, though 4 is better. But the ark 2 strings are 1/2 sul tasto 1/2 con sord, so the soft articulations and dynamics like this, you can more easily get away with 2 (though 3 is better - see the special bows Sul Tasto).

But the key thing about ark 2 is that you have all these wonderful arcs and articulations. In particular, the long and short swells. The only way to play ark 2 strings is by adding legato to the swells, and key switching constantly between the main legato patch and the swells. You get much, much nicer results across a significant spectrum of types of lines. The standard ark 2 legato alone is nothing special. But throw in the swells, and suddenly your palette is expanded greatly, and there are wonderful lines to be crafted. (The caveat being that I don't much care for the "official" musicality of the Ark 2 marketing, and could care less about what it says on the tin in favour of my own thing. Still, the legato on the swells articulations at last tripples the usefulness of Ark 2 for me. And the short and fast tremelo are fabulously cool too).

The same thing is true for the Special Bows - with the long and short portatos (and other arcs), it comes alive in new ways. And also the First Chairs. The FCs and the SBs both have 3 dynamics, but the long and short portato + legato really add to the expressiveness at the level of dynamics and your ability to craft idiomatic arcs. Also - the FC cello playing a fast line with the short portato is entirely to die for (or in my usual parlance: a really fabulous sweet spot).

I seriously can't believe that this legato-on-arc articulations functionality has been there for so long and I've never quite registered it,

Tallinn then takes the concept, or so it seems to me, to entirely new heights. Even though it has only two dynamics layers (mp & mf), the wealth of arcs similarly open up the dynamic expressiveness a lot more that the two dynamic layers suggests. Here's a demo with the Tallinn cellos experimenting with the arcs:



Theorized a bit here:






Tallinn: Voices and strings. Single instruments available!


Well, I almost convinced myself that I didn't need or want this library. I'm glad that I failed because this is quite exquisite. Only had a short play with it so far but I'm a lot more impressed than I thought I'd be. Of course, it has its very own unique sonic characteristics but it also...




vi-control.net






Which brings us to Tableau ... which I resisted buying for not quite 2 minutes after it's release ... but subsequently haven't had a chance to get seriously stuck into.

But it's pretty clear that Maxime is taking the same concept that works so well (*so* well) - and is seemingly so unsung - in all these previous libraries, and developing a 119 euro chamber bleeding strings library out of it - I can almost think of nothing so completely up my alley. (Almost like it's some kind of conspiracy or something ...)


The important point though, is that this might, conceptually, be a "single dynamic layer" library. But it isn't a "single dynamic" library, in that as well as mp and mf (same as Tallinn) you have all of this scope to craft the dynamics via the arcs + legatos.

(Though it's still mind boggling that the default patches don't come with the legato turned on all of these arcs. Seriously, mind boggling. Completely mind boggling. I mean, it takes 2s to fix. But still. Mind boggling.)

Also, it has the same mp and mp layers of Tallinn ... but then it doesn't implement a crossfade ... like, at all. Which perhaps makes sense in order to market this as a "single layer" library. (Seriously, I'm sure that if it had a crossfade patch, lots of people would be complaining bitterly that it's not as good as CSS and never getting around to checking out that the *actual* concept of the library. When all you have is a hammer ... and all that.)

But that said, @Maxime Luft - now that we're staring to get our heads around how brilliant TCS actually is within the (dynamic arc) paradigm of what it actually designed to do ... any chance we might still get, perhaps a "bonus" cross fade patch, a la Tallinn? Because that would a lovely little extra.


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 10, 2021)

ism said:


> I'm generally quite obsessed with dynamics and dynamic layers. And while more is usually, all things being equal, better, it's also often not that simple.
> 
> Ark 2 is a good example. The strings have 2 dynamic layers. For a traditional general purpose string library, 3 is usually enough, though 4 is better. But the ark 2 strings are 1/2 sul tasto 1/2 con sord, so the soft articulations and dynamics like this, you can more easily get away with 2 (though 3 is better - see the special bows Sul Tasto).
> 
> ...



What a great post!


…yep it’s a conspiracy.


----------



## ism (Jul 10, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Ah finally. Confirmation.
> 
> Okay, thanks for playing along y’all. ISM has bought the library. It’s a wrap. See you next time.


... but what really gets me is that you (and, I presume, your fellow conspirators *cough* @Maxime Luft *cough*) must have been planning this for months and months, if not years. And then to launch just at the exact moment at which I was *definitely* done buying libraries for the year.

I mean, no one level: Well played. 

But on another, seriously, how deep does this go? #curseyoudoctoremmet


----------



## dzilizzi (Jul 10, 2021)

ism said:


> ... but what really gets me is that you (and, I presume, your fellow conspirators *cough* @Maxime Luft *cough*) must have been planning this for months and months, if not years. And then to launch just at the exact moment at which I was *definitely* done buying libraries for the year.
> 
> I mean, no one level: Well played.
> 
> But on another, seriously, how deep does this go? #curseyoudoctoremmet


@doctoremmet is responsible for a lot of purchases around here.......

Do you think they are paying him?????


----------



## VSriHarsha (Jul 10, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I agree with several of the things @ChrisSiuMusic said:
> 
> Using it as a layering tool, particularly with other OT strings libraries, is smart. I find it blends perfectly with Ark 2, which has (I think) a violins, a violas, and a cellos+basses (in octaves) legato patches, making it very good for layering underneath. It’s also got some half sordino sections as I recall which really helps soften things up. MSS will also probably sound great under Tableau Chamber because it blends so well (with anything).
> 
> ...


That is the exact video I watched too, apart from yours. Christopher Siu did it. The legatos seemed a little better in this I don’t know why. But the 2nd Violins still suck, to me. And I saw the playing range of the 2nd Violins was not full. Did anyone see or maybe am mistaken. Perhaps I should watch another time. I think it’s better for layering with.


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I waste so much time looking through them all instead of just making one work.


Naa......that’s not just you  Lol!


dzilizzi said:


> And yes, I will probably get CSS and the rest eventually. And now TCS to add to it. LOL!


Lol! Hope you like it.


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## G_Erland (Jul 11, 2021)

I got to say i quite like the sound, violins as well, and for the price i thought why not. Ive also discovered the legato for shorter articulations that was mentioned earlier. I make a list in sine that includes both leg on and off - and then i can access both with articulation management. But now, after thinking a bit about chamber size samples, i now want the Tallinn strings so much, what a sound and i didnt realise...aaah, does it make sense to buy bits of it...? Suppose the whole collection will be the same as just the quartet ala carte...


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## Futchibon (Jul 11, 2021)

G_Erland said:


> I got to say i quite like the sound, violins as well, and for the price i thought why not. Ive also discovered the legato for shorter articulations that was mentioned earlier. I make a list in sine that includes both leg on and off - and then i can access both with articulation management. But now, after thinking a bit about chamber size samples, i now want the Tallinn strings so much, what a sound and i didnt realise...aaah, does it make sense to buy bits of it...? Suppose the whole collection will be the same as just the quartet ala carte...


I debated buying the collection but went with the choirs and main organ but now, like you, I'm interested in the strings too after playing with TCS. Its 399 Euros for the full collection or 283 for the quartet. I'm thinking of getting the violins and celli so would be interested to know how you get on if you go for it.


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## G_Erland (Jul 11, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> I debated buying the collection but went with the choirs and main organ but now, like you, I'm interested in the strings too after playing with TCS. Its 399 Euros for the full collection or 283 for the quartet. I'm thinking of getting the violins and celli so would be interested to know how you get on if you go for it.


Yeah, the thought occurred to me as well, getting violins+celli...hmmmm, ill give it a think, listen to some more demoes...my philosophy is to get it if i need it and off course we get something for the money if we get the full thing but i dont need much organs, and have micro and Eric whitacre for choirs..edit:and off course you already have the rest..


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## dbudimir (Jul 11, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Truthfully, I'm not sure about dynamic layers. I just play them. Mostly it's a lot of, I have a sound in my head, try them all until one works or inspires something different. Sometimes having so many choices is great, other times, I waste so much time looking through them all instead of just making one work. And yes, I will probably get CSS and the rest eventually. And now TCS to add to it. LOL!



You will not rest until you get Sonokinetic strings! LOL 😂


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## Futchibon (Jul 11, 2021)

G_Erland said:


> Yeah, the thought occurred to me as well, getting violins+celli...hmmmm, ill give it a think, listen to some more demoes...my philosophy is to get it if i need it and off course we get something for the money if we get the full thing but i dont need much organs, and have micro and Eric whitacre for choirs..edit:and off course you already have the rest..


It's interesting that in Ben's composition below he used 3 instances each of the violins and cellos and 1 each of the violas and basses. Seems like a plan to get the violins and celli and see if I need the others later on


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## dzilizzi (Jul 11, 2021)

dbudimir said:


> You will not rest until you get Sonokinetic strings! LOL 😂


This is true. Then I will start writing disco music....


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 12, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> This is true. Then I will start writing disco music....


Alright! Go Disco!


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## benwiggy (Jan 19, 2022)

What I really don't understand about Tableau is:

The Cello has Vibrato at the high end of CC3, and the Violas and Violins have Vibrato at the Low end:








Only the Viola has a "Short Spiccato".

And the Violin has a steady speed Tremolo, but the others have varying speed tremolos (slow, getting faster).

Why would you make these pointless variations in what are supposed to be ensemble instruments?


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