# Things a composer should know when working in the industry



## anogo (Sep 20, 2010)

The premise of the thread is simple: Post a thing/idea/anecdote that you think an up-and-coming composer should be aware of to make working in the industry as painless as possible.

Perhaps it is a lesson that you learned the hard way or something that caused someone you know a lot of frustration.


1. Cue sheets are really, really important in order to get royalties for TV work. Unfortunately, many smaller production companies don't understand their responsibilities for submitting a cue sheet. The best advice I was given is to include the submission of a cue sheet as a requirement in the contract you sign.

Your turn!


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## Jaap (Sep 20, 2010)

2: Clients have a different perception of time and money then you.

Advice: try to stick to your own workflow as much as possible. If you know you can push out 3 till 5 minutes of good quality music per day, then say so, but don't say and promise you can do more. First of all you kill the quality and also the expectations within the other side of the industry. If you can push less minutes of music, don't be ashamed to say so to the client so that he also knows what he can expect. If you promise more but can't deliver, you will make a fool out of yourself.
Also try to stick as much as possible to what you financially need to be compensated for the hours or work so you can have a normal living from it. 
Our work is like normal work and we should be paid normally as any other working class.
Overall conclusion: create awareness at clients what is normal regarding time and money and make them aware that no composer nor production company is the same.


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## RiffWraith (Sep 20, 2010)

3. Follow the temp score.

If you think the director won't notice that your score is not like the temp, and that you went off on a little adventure, you are wrong.

4. Find out who you really answer to before you start writing.

Spending three months to complete a score for a full length feature, first being told by the director that he will approve all cues and then being told by the director to keep going that the score is wonderful, then at the end of three months when the score is complete to be told by the producer that you should have gone in a different direction as you first discover it is the producer who has final say regarding the score, would kinda suck.


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## kdm (Sep 20, 2010)

5. It's never too early to panic. 

6. #5 works for most any job when you realize composing is like playing the lottery, only it doesn't pay as well. 

Just recounting "out loud" the two things I forgot to tell the soon-to-be music school grad that called today for advice on the composing/music industry.


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## Markus S (Sep 21, 2010)

7. Never start writing before having done at least some research. Listen to related music, read scores, watch players/concerts (even on youtube), maybe read books on the musical style, get in the right mood. Don't expect to know what to write straight away, take your time to get the right feeling for the project.

8. when you have written something, never send it right away to your client. Get some distance and listen to it again with new ears (next morning in example). If you still can hear clearly all your musical ideas, it's ready to go, but often you will have to adjust volumes a little, or simplify the arrangement the next day.


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## Farkle (Sep 21, 2010)

9. Be a team player. You are joining a giant group of people who are putting together a marketable product (whether artistically or commercially driven). Work to have your music support and enhance the goal product. That means not only listening to and creatively helping the director/producer, but also the mixing engineer, audio editor or (in my case) the audio programmers and implementors. People like to work with friends. Be a professional friend!

10. Stand your ground, value yourself. You will never, ever, *ever* get anywhere in any industry if you belly-up and become a pushover from every project. When someone hires you, even if it's for the (dreaded phrase) experience, they are hiring someone with _at least_ 12 years experience playing music, listening to music, and hopefully, writing music. Value yourself by asking for reasonable compensation, reasonable deadlines, and reasonable communications. If you ask for reasonable workflow, and the core team pushes back, then guess what? They are UNREASONABLE. Ask yourself. Do you want to work with unreasonable people? I sure don't. 



Mike


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## wst3 (Sep 21, 2010)

Farkle @ Tue Sep 21 said:


> 9. Be a team player. <snip>



[quote="Farkle]10. Stand your ground, value yourself. <big snip> Do you want to work with unreasonable people? I sure don't. [/quote]

Two of the most difficult lessons that almost everyone needs to learn, and that are seldom taught in school!

Many years ago I worked for an internet start-up, one of the things that stood out was that the entire leadership team held the opinion that there is such a thing as a poor fit when it came to customers. The customer is not always right, but they are always the customer, and when you run into a situation where the customer is unhappy you need to quickly determine if it is fixable or not. If it isn't, then you need to gracefully exit from the relationship... and more to the point, you need to learn from that when it might be a good idea not to start the relationship in the first place.

I think this is truer today than it has been for my working career. Lots of financial pressure on everyone, and some folks resort to being unreasonable as their solution to reduce the pressure on themselves. Not a good starting point!!


Of all the practical posts here so far these two points really stand out for me... couldn't have anything to do with my age eh?


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## Narval (Sep 21, 2010)

11. Keep in mind that it's not about your music, and it's not about their project either. 

Which calls for the question: what is it all about then?
Exactly.
That's the single most important decision you are to make, to take, or to fake.


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## poseur (Sep 21, 2010)

RiffWraith @ Mon Sep 20 said:


> *3. Follow the temp score.
> *
> If you think the director won't notice that your score is not like the temp, and that you went off on a little adventure, you are wrong.



hmmm.
well, for some people, on some projects,
that might be a good idea.....
..... but, i def do NOT believe that this is universally "good" advice.

there are good temps, and bad temps.
there are some excellent temps, and some truly horrific ones.

in the past few years, especially,
it feels like i've seen a wackload of increasingly weak, disjointed & scattered
and even misleading (or, misled) temp-scores;
i'm not about to follow those as my guide, except in extremely limited ways
--- usually, only seeking out select elements from the temp, only, of tempo, "hits" or "recognitions", 
feelings engendered by the temp, certain tone-colors.

but..... i play "temp"-score as i see it, per film, per director.
if the director loves something in the temp, i ask him or her why that is so:
what feeling is the temp bringing both to the picture, overall,
and to the scene, specifically?
what do you want us to feel here, and why?
if the director is only focussed on what the temp is doing within its one scene,
on its potentially falsely isolated "function",
then it's damned important (for me) to figure out how that actually 
might tie-in w/the rest of the picture, the rest of the score,
in direct relation to the arc of the plot(s), character development & visuals.

not so occasionally, the director will say:
"that? shee-it!, i hate that cue; it's doing nothing of value, what do you have in mind?"

where i come from,
it's always better to have the director clarify the feelings that he or she is seeking,
as precisely as possible,
in the score-notes.....
with or without reference to the temp.

in documentary work, or any film that's obviously employing
near to 100% of the latest & greatest filmmaking tropes, well.....
i'm not likely to take on a film where i know the director to be so attached
to the temp that he requires the "composer" to copy it,
or to primarily cop it.

it's just not my cup of tea, at all, personally,
having worked in that other, non-outspoken journeyman state;
i feel that our scores should bring something to the film's emotional table that is either 
previously hidden,
or needs more support than an unglued temp can give it, and etc etc etc.

just my limited 2¢, there, about which i feel pretty strongly.....
if only for the sake of my own involvement in a picture.

d


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## The_Controllers (Sep 21, 2010)

12. Learn how to explain why you did everything in the music even if it was a natural sub-conscious decision. 

No one likes asking a question to be answered back by ums... makes you seem unsure of your own work even if you aren't


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## poseur (Sep 21, 2010)

13. *don't sign the C of A until it's necessary to do so, & raise no red flags about that, either.*


d


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## Narval (Sep 21, 2010)

The_Controllers @ Tue Sep 21 said:


> 12. Learn how to explain why you did everything in the music even if it was a natural sub-conscious decision.


That's a really great advice, and I have a personal illustration of it:

My composition teacher once asked me about one of my first assignments - 
"Why did you write it this way?" 
"Because I like how it sounds, I think it sounds good" I replied.
"This sounds good too. I like this very much" said he, staring into my eyes with a big smile on his face while randomly hitting the piano keys with his hands.

Now I think of it as the precise moment when I became a real composer.


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## anogo (Sep 21, 2010)

poseur @ Tue Sep 21 said:


> 13. *don't sign the C of A until it's necessary to do so, & raise no red flags about that, either.*
> 
> 
> d



I don't know what a "C of A" is.


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## poseur (Sep 21, 2010)

Bryan T @ Tue Sep 21 said:


> poseur @ Tue Sep 21 said:
> 
> 
> > 13. *don't sign the C of A until it's necessary to do so, & raise no red flags about that, either.*
> ...



it's a "certificate of authorship",
which functions as the producers' _safely warranted_ right
to use your original music in their film;
it's often presented for signature even before a contract is completed.

d


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## RiffWraith (Sep 21, 2010)

poseur @ Wed Sep 22 said:


> RiffWraith @ Mon Sep 20 said:
> 
> 
> > *3. Follow the temp score.
> ...



Allow me to reiterate.

Follow the temp score regardless of how horrific it is.

You are correct - this is not universally "good" advice.

It is universally _great_ advice. And it's not just advice - it is what is expected of you.

If you think a bad temp score allows you to not follow it, you better think about a new career - quick. If there is anyone out there that thinks they can discard the temp score because they don't think it works - think again. If there is anyone out there that thinks they can discard the temp score because it is too typical - think again. 

If you have a good relationship with the director, and have worked with him/her in the past, there is nothing wrong with suggesting something different, and, "hey - I didn't think the temp worked there, so I tried something else - let me know if this works for you." Definitely keep an open door of communication, and even ask the director what they were thinking when they put that (aweful) cue there. Nothing wrong with suggesting something else; sometimes this is better. But in the end, it IS _follow the temp_. Regardless.

Cheers.


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## Ian Dorsch (Sep 21, 2010)

RiffWraith @ Tue Sep 21 said:


> If you think a bad temp score allows you to not follow it, you better think about a new career - quick.



Wait, is this directed at poseur? I'm sorry dude, that is pure, golden comedy. :lol:


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## JohnG (Sep 21, 2010)

hmm. 

There are two ways to get along in Hollywood, I believe. One is to be really good at a lot of styles and be able to emulate whatever they want.  And that is a really good skill to have and nice when you need it.

However, I think that's talking more about survival and getting jobs, than about really creating a career; the two may seem closely allied as one is getting going, but if one is seeking to be hired for one's own sound, rather than the ability to follow the musical colour-wheel that someone has chosen ("burnt sienna here, lilac there"), then following temp all the time is maybe not the way to do it.


Although a cautious man by nature, I almost totally disregarded the temp on one movie I scored. I mean, it was clear what they _wanted_ the temp to do, so from that perspective it certainly was instructive to hear it, but I worried that the temp set expectations that were not going to be met later in the movie. 

And so, I was concerned that following the temp would upset the audience and make them angry or at least seriously discomfited as the movie drove into its more serious moments. (This was despite the fact that a reasonable amount of the temp was my own music).

Very often, I find that temp music underlines what we already are seeing on screen, rather than threading along a vibe that we're trying to establish for the entire act / movie / character. So music can wreck an otherwise moving scene if the score has the effect of an elbow-in-the-ribs and v.o. saying, "Wow, what a Darn Sad Moment in This Film."

Normally, it's a big risk to depart from the temp, but I agree with poseur that sometimes temp music which works fine for an individual scene wrenches the tone or energy or genre too far in the wrong direction for the movie overall, and therefore needs adjustment or wholesale replacement.

On the other hand, it's not my / our movie. That goes without saying and, if they don't like saxophones, then no saxophones.


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## poseur (Sep 21, 2010)

RiffWraith @ Tue Sep 21 said:


> Allow me to reiterate.
> 
> Follow the temp score regardless of how horrific it is.
> 
> ...



hmmm.
well, i don't agree with that, at all.

but, maybe i didn't make myself clear, here?
i'm expected to pay attention to the temp;
yes, i am..... and i always do.

but,
i'm not necessarily expected to follow it,
depending much upon the film, the director and each segment of the temp, itself.

in fact, it seems like i'm often expected to somehow "better" the temp --- to add something to the film
which the temp does not, did not or can not do.....
to offer suitable & enriching "surprises" & "glue" to the picture.
almost always.



RiffWraith @ Tue Sep 21 said:


> If you think a bad temp score allows you to not follow it, you better think about a new career - quick.


thanks much!, but --- in the scheme of things, i'm doing just fine, as i am.




RiffWraith @ Tue Sep 21 said:


> Definitely keep an open door of communication, and even ask the director what they were thinking when they put that (aweful) cue there. Nothing wrong with suggesting something else; sometimes this is better. But in the end, it IS _follow the temp_. Regardless.



the first part of that last bit, there, makes sense to me;
the closing statement does not, however, gibe with it, to me.

our jobs are, afaict, situationally based.

my experiences, in any case, do not agree with your own;
which's fine, i should think!

i should add, jh, for clarity's sake,
that i'm speaking specifically, here, about my experiences-to-date in film-composition;
not in regards to my tv or advertising experiences,
which are a bit different, each from each other, to say the least.

d


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## poseur (Sep 21, 2010)

JohnG @ Tue Sep 21 said:


> Normally, it's a big risk to depart from the temp, but I agree with poseur that sometimes temp music which works fine for an individual scene wrenches the tone or energy or genre too far in the wrong direction for the movie overall, and therefore needs adjustment or wholesale replacement.
> 
> On the other hand, it's not my / our movie. That goes without saying and, if they don't like saxophones, then no saxophones.


right; i agree, strongly, on both points.

just a quick thought, here, maybe OT:

to the heart of what i make of your first point, there, jg:

one of the biggest of the recurring issues,
especially when working with many first-time directors,
is that though they may want/need the composer to build, re-build or support
the entirety of the story-arc from what is also (often) a relatively "scattering"/disjointed temp score,
many of these directors can appear to remain addicted to playing individual scenes
as mini-movies, as multiple 3-act-plays
--- they may even have shot & edited this way, w/o any full-playback oversight & perspective on their film ---
which, in reality,
fights much of what i'm meant/intended to achieve as a composer.....
when, in fact, their pre-existing temp was intended to actually support these many breaks-in-flow of the gestalt (and, meaning) of the film.

again, just a super-quick thought.
gotta run.

d


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## Rob Elliott (Sep 21, 2010)

lost track of what number we are on - without thinking here's mine:


- can't have enough cowbell .... I got a fever and the only prescription.... 

(sorry I am with humans now :wink: )


here's the real list:

- use the temp score to get in the head of the 'decision makers'. I can't ask enough questions of WHY's here WHY there - what were you going after with this musical example (watch the non-verbal cues - very important communication). It may also help you decide if it is a project you want to be involved in - to what level do they want plagarism, etc. Having said that most temp scores put you in a sort of 'fenway park' - so you aren't going down the polka path when they are thinking more dobro.

-Great advice on WHO is deciding - find this out first - get in their noggin.

-no music terms used (only emotion) - if it goes 'musical' - you might be biting more than you can chew. (something for a production team person to prove)

-deliver more than they expect. Obvious yes - but keep telling yourself this throughout the project and try not to be a diva....which leads to....

-it's only music. It is not 'sacred art' and can be re-written to your client's satisfaction. Someday - someone might play it on the 'concert stage' - but for now - most will likely only see it on their DVD player - keep it in perspective - you could be digging ditches for a living.

-being a team player goes further than most other things. Be patient - this might be your fifth score this year and his/her first or second film (they have been living breathing it for 24-36 months by the time your highness enters in....) This is their baby - if you see it totally different then consider another project.


-be grateful. Sorry for the Sunday School lesson but I think this goes a LONG way as a member of the team. And I think your subsequent music will reflect this gratitude. I have had clients tell me - 'you have the coolest job' - I smile and say that I am very lucky to do what I do.

-Don't be afraid to ask what you are worth. That which you are seeking is seeking you with equal intent. Don't be surprise of how many potential clients will say yes to a confident and decisive quote for a project. They know that this next to last step can make or break the 'baby' they are trying to deliver.


tons mo' but for now :D


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