# What have you been experimenting with that isn't "the norm"



## KingIdiot (Aug 17, 2010)

So,
as I sit here and finish some sampling, compose some demos, and read about the new mega libs (again). I'm struck with that sense of awe that the tools have just become so powerful and amazing... and am immediately struck with the sense of dread that now "anyone" can do what we all do, and the over saturation of a particular "style" of score (the big orchestral/sweeping kind) is going to make for some generic and sound alike scoring practices.

I know I'm oversimplifying, and we've gone through this multiple times... but each cycle I feel we get closer and closer to all having tools that allow us to make the same music, and follow the trends being set for us (or already set).

As an analogy, take modern heavy rock recordings/albums. Over the past 10-15 or so years, they've veered further and further away from being truly unique sounding to all sounding very similar. Everyone wants that big polished sound, because its the trend, and what people are used to.

the same seems to happen for general "popular" film music and to some extent the video games that try to be film like. The sound is "the safe bet"

It doesn't mean you cant be creative or come up with something with character, but I'm starting t feel like the box is getting more and more defined.

Outside of smaller indie produced flicks, which tend to try very hard to be different visually as well, the approach seems to be the same for the most part for general/pop films.

Do any of you guys actively try different approaches just to see if you can find something unconventional that works?

What have you guys wanted to try to use as underscore? What have you been experimenting with that isn't "typical" stylistically with orchestra or synths? What randomly comes up in your head as "I wonder what that would sound like!"

It'd be interesting to have a thread like this open to where we can discuss new approaches, and possibly...collaboratively cause a slight shift in the perception of what a score "should" sound like. I'm not saying a paradigm shift, but as a collective of composing and audio masterminds, help put new and fresh concepts out in the light.

Maybe even give ourselves projects... like "rescore this sweeping love scene using only timbales and kazoos and heavy metal guitars" ...ok the timbales might be a little extreme. But basically what I'm saying is. We have a community here to support creative experimentation in an arena where we're almost always slaves to some temp track.

Let's try and foster something here, even if just to feed that part of us that really wants to do something different... even if we can't all come up with something massively different, we can share the experience and have proof of failure in an approach, or maybe even proof of concept.

Whatdya say?

any thoughts on where to start?

Just randomly throw out "I always wanted to try using only ______ for a cue"

or "Anyone try composing while monitoring %100 reverse reverb returns only?"

or "hey there's this short scene in so and so movie that's scored with typical music, let's give ourselves one hour to rescore it completely differently, and just drop them in this thread until one week from now"... blah blah blah etc etc etc

I just find myself not visiting the forums much anymore, because it's the same library war and lust stuff that got old for me once the threats of lawyers got involved if I had an opinion. I'd just like to see groups of people I admire, my peers, and newbies have a place to do something creative and expand each others horizons... together.

(I'm actually kinda thinking of that timbale + kazoo + guitars over romeo and juliet... or something now! HA! What fun that could be!)

Also, I'm not trying to diminish the power of the orchestra, or our amazing virtual ones, I'm just offering up that it might be nice to have a place that we can all come together and collaborate on pushing our skill sets a bit.

or maybe I just need more sleep


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## chimuelo (Aug 17, 2010)

The word reverse called for a reply.
I do jingles only and use LoFi and reversed looped effects like the Car Commercials are known for. Some of my partners clients immediately say no way, but a few daring ones actually realize that a signature sound can get folks attention on radio spots. You only have 30 seconds, and they always are 10db louder than the programmed material.


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## poseur (Aug 17, 2010)

deleted


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## gsilbers (Aug 17, 2010)

different tunings on the guitar and open string playing bowed guitar w different tunnings. 


side chain compressing the string section with a kick pattern or a rhythmic loop.. 

or whole orchestra for one section 

esoteric convolution IRs on extremely streched audio files for some crazy textures. 
IRs like russian monks singing. 
IRs like a cacophony of porn sound bytes together. 
IRs like recording your name soundbyte. 
IR's like a 1907 indian chant gramophone recordings.


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## KingIdiot (Aug 17, 2010)

gsilbers @ Tue Aug 17 said:


> IRs like a cacophony of porn sound bytes together.



my hero!


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## KingIdiot (Aug 19, 2010)

wow.. that's all we got eh?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 20, 2010)

Some of us here are so busy trying to hustle up work to pay the bills that we don't have time to experiment with new approaches. It's a tough time out there right now...

That said, I do have these fantasies, every once in a while, that I'd like to try using the orchestral libraries like Carlos' use of synths in Switched on Bach. I would like to try all kinds of electronic music gestures (filter sweeps, gated pads, etc) without electronic sounds, just acoustic. I know it's been done before, but I haven't heard it much in the context of score. 

One thing that can slow down experiments in new scoring though is that, in many cases, the music has a limited role to play; if the music is too interesting, the director might be uncomfortable with the space it takes up (space that should go mainly to the dialogue/story), and, without saying so at the time, she/he may consider dropping the cue in the mix.

Great thread idea Your Highness, as usual.


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## Narval (Aug 20, 2010)

I find the idea of experimentation for its own sake masturbatory. For proper _sex,_ it takes two, one of which being the inspiration and the motivation to experiment for the other. Experimenting mindfully, while seeking feedback, is exciting and constructive. Experimentation for its own sake, not as much.


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 20, 2010)

Experimenting is absolutely essential, although it's a luxury as well that not many people can afford. The more you experiment, the more you come to conclusions, positive or negative, giving you more tools to work and get out of jams.


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## Dan Mott (Aug 20, 2010)

I experiment everyday.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 20, 2010)

There's a reason that spending a long time fiddling with a knob is considered wanking. I do it all the time in my analog studio.


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## Zei (Aug 20, 2010)

Narval @ Fri Aug 20 said:


> I find the idea of experimentation for its own sake masturbatory. For proper _sex,_ it takes two, one of which being the inspiration and the motivation to experiment for the other. Experimenting mindfully, while seeking feedback, is exciting and constructive. Experimentation for its own sake, not as much.


I disagree. At least in the confines of a practice area. Now, if I was going to write for something (say a film/TV show/etc.) the experimentation would have to go along with the program... but if I was writing for myself, trying new things, learning new effects, masturbating is fine.

To go with your sex analogy (lol), it takes two for good sex, but you can spend a lot of time by yourself figuring out what you like and would like to try with another.


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## poseur (Aug 20, 2010)

deleted.


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## Narval (Aug 20, 2010)

d,

I see no conflict between 
(a) "being mindful in, 
and seeking feedback for, 
your experiments" 
and 
(b) "keeping your soul alight." 

Are you saying that 
to keep your soul alight 
you need to fuck feedback 
and mindfulness?


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## KingIdiot (Aug 20, 2010)

I think this is my point.

We all have to "play it safe" scoring most of the time. But we all want to try new things every so often.

Sometimes we just don't have the time to experiment, but have ideas. Here's an opportunity to share those ideas, and pick an outlet and share the option of trying it with people that DO have time, or WANT to experiment.

We have a LOT of fucking talent on this board, and we're all struggling to keep working, so we keep doing the styles that people hire for, and only every so often someone comes up with something new and fresh, and then its copied to death and the cycle repeats.

we have opportunities to try things that are styilistically different and share in the experiment as a whole community, instead of a selfish masturbatory approach. It could be group sex with a swinging crowd.

 (dammit how much porn/sex talk can we get in this thread?)

all joking aside. My thought was that it would be a great opportunity to give an outlet to people who do have time, and also give insight into new approaches to the people that don't, but want to experiment.

For instance. I'm SLAMMED right now. and will be for a month atleast. but I'd love to see someone pick a (good) clip of film/video that we could share in some sort of creative commons approach to try new things and share.

I just see it being an opportunity to mess around and find new things.

*IF* we can throw out the personal judgement aspect that comes with answers to "how about this? How does this sound", and come at it more like "do you see any value in trying this approach with this kind of scene/style, and if not, how could we make it work?"

this is my thought on it, I was just "thinking" out loud. I don't have the time t get something like this started at this moment, but I wanted to share. If it doesn't get going, and I find myself with time later, I may come back to it.


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## José Herring (Aug 20, 2010)

There's no time like the present to add more and more experimental sound design and musica concrete type techniques into even the most of traditional scores. People kind of expect it now. What one needs to keep in mind is that it shouldn't sound experimental. The final music, no matter how cutting edge it may be, shouldn't sound like you're experimenting. But, rather the non traditional techniques should flow just as musically and be just as lyrical as any traditional melodic element. It takes a lot of work. But, say if you've recorded a bunch of marbles in a glass bowl it's well worth the time to take to make that sound something musical. My main critique of "experimental" type music is that in the end most of the musicians that engage in that kind of work never got beyond the experimental stage. I find that even huge names like Stockhausen, Nuebauten (sp) ect..... are often too satisfied with the idea that the new technique they developed stays sounding experimental and rather non-musical. But if you listen to a guys like Brian Eno, Trent Resner or Massive attack they've got all these cutting edge sound design going on but manage to weave it into a musical context. Of course that style of music isn't always appropriate in film, but if you take the concept and apply it to film a lot of the even most out there techniques find acceptance with in a dramatic context.


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## rgames (Aug 20, 2010)

Clarinet processed through typical guitar distortion. Sounds pretty cool, I think 

At around 2:00 on "Waltz Eccentrique" top of the page here: http://soundcloud.com/richard-ames

Actually, that whole track is pretty non-standard: somewhere between jazz and pop, features clarinet and accordion, mixed meter.

rgames


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## poseur (Aug 20, 2010)

deleted


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## midphase (Aug 20, 2010)

I think that people who experiment are simply not going to be willing to share what they're doing.

I know I'm not...I'll tell you everything there is to know about orchestration and arranging...but when it comes to the stuff that I do which is unconventional, no way. I suspect many others will be equally tight lipped about their techniques to reach beyond the standard and predictable.


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## Narval (Aug 20, 2010)

It certainly cannot be said
that experimentation is completely missing
from today's film music.

Hans Zimmer has done some experiments -
treating horns like a piano, 
the strings like an ocarina, 
the woodwinds like complete silence, 
the orchestra like a compressed/distorted guitar - 
and quite _successfully_ some might say. 
He's also invented the one-note theme, the Joker theme 
(which can just as well be called the joke theme), 
and the "slow-down-Piaf" new way of scoring (also called ineption). 
In Black Hawk Down he experimented 
mixing synth sounds with jam sessions,
in Sherlock - banjoists with fiddlers. 
(of course, he turned to these kind of experiments 
only after he realized that experimenting with Planets 
is not that safe, at least not for everyone.) 
Hans Zimmer is a great experimenter, 
maybe the most innovative of them all
in the holly wood.

For he's not alone. 
Marco Beltrami has played the cactus 
in The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada. 
Dario Marianelli has introduced and written music 
for a brand new instrument, 
the typewriter, 
in Atonement. 
Last but not least, 
James Horner has utilized the Pro Tools 
in Avatar.

All these above illustriously illustrate 
what I called "mindful and feedback-based" experiments, 
the only kind of experiments that seem to work 
in successful films.


(man I love writing a bit more vertically, thanks poseur!:D)


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## midphase (Aug 21, 2010)

Narval

That was

Awesome!!!


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## givemenoughrope (Aug 21, 2010)

I accidentally
dropped
a guitar amp
into
my piano
once. 
Sort of
chance
music. 
I wasn't recording 
unfortunately. 
Needed glue.

I've been messing with some pretty basic alternate guitar tunings, reprogramming a bunch of vsl solo strings for glissandos, portamentos, and microtuning, still reamping, anything through anything else, to get some crazy sounds. Nothing too crazy at all but enough to figure some approaches out. 

I like the idea of trying to write something through reversed reverb, like a guitar pedal. I was also thinking about trying to write something and then stretch it 800 times, like that Beiber track, basically writing the Piaf track and stretching it too. Not bad ideas. 

How about, instead of giving away complete ideas or techniques, just giving some clues or reasons for doing something? I think people develop their own ways of doing things based upon personal preference, whats easy or result-oriented, etc. but i there are a zillion ways to act on a concept.


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## David Story (Aug 21, 2010)

I do something different on each score
If I haven't done it, it's an experiment to me

Sharing techniques is part of the brotherhood of composers
It's a growing economy, not a zero sum
If we all use Paul Stretch, we'll all do something different

The public likes taikos, guitars and singers
If you avoid those, it's poor business
and rude to the audience
unless you have alternatives that can play the same roles
Then those become common and popular

Producers will accept small experiments 
if you place them with the familiar
Making a romantic orchestral theme sound fresh with a cool pad

I'm building accompaniments from minimalist cells
It seems like a fun way to keep a pulse


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## synthetic (Aug 21, 2010)

This was really fascinating to me. Once I get my studio back together (it's been in boxes for a month!!) I plan to create a whole sample library doing this kind of thing: 

http://gawker.com/5614579/how-to-make-justin-bieber-sound-incredible-slow-him-down-800-percent (http://gawker.com/5614579/how-to-make-j ... 00-percent)

Also, I have an Eventide DSP4000 that has sat pretty much unused since I got it. I need to sit my ass down and learn that thing. And my modular has been underused so far, I need to do more sound design with that. 

Pretty much my goals for this year are to get better at sound design. I think I'm OK at it but I need to get much better to be competitive in 2010.


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