# Velocity -> Mod Wheel: How to?



## stevenson-again (Jun 29, 2010)

i am trying to modify some kontakt patches i am not happy with to behave i would like them to. specifically the westgate horn patches - i want to change the attack samples to be controlled by velocity and the sustain and legato patches to be controlled by modwheel.

is it possible to do that without open heart surgery on the groups and zones? i am suspecting it isn't. has anyone sorted these westgate patches and fancy sharing?

just to be clear - the sustains are in their own group and velocity layered. would i have to split them into their own groups representing the dynamic levels? likewise the legato patches?


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## EvilDragon (Jun 29, 2010)

If those patches are using some scripting to have equal-power velocity crossfade by using modwheel, you're up to, not heart, but brain surgery.


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## Cinemascore (Jun 29, 2010)

I'm doing the same thing with my own custom patches. You're on the right track. Just assign your attack velocity controlled patches as you already have to their own group(s) in multiple velocity levels from 0-127, then with the sustained sample group(s), control them by CC#1 volume and make sure that they are all mapped full from 0-127 velocity (making velocity control null essentially). With multiple sustain groups, so form a dynamic crossfade between them, you create a custom curve for each one under the CC#1 volume parameter. These curves should overlap slightly, then curve down to die away while the next adjacent layer takes over. You can save these once you like them to presets. I created mine based on my expression pedal ballistics (I use CC#11 instead of Mod Wheel for anything sustained) and created one master curve with the loudest dynamic that I liked, then started customizing that into two, three and four layer versions. Sounds like a pain to do, but you do it once, save it and you're done. Hope that helps a little.


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## Tod (Jun 29, 2010)

> just to be clear - the sustains are in their own group and velocity layered. would i have to split them into their own groups representing the dynamic levels? likewise the legato patches?



That's the way I've always done it, separateing the velocity layers into separate groups and then scaleing them. I've always used linear scaleing envelopes that worked fine for me. However, there were some fancier scaleings floating around the forum sometime back.

The image below is for a four layers and the separate groups.

Humm, sorry about that, for some reason the image wouldn't load. I'll see if I can fix that.


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## Pzy-Clone (Jun 29, 2010)

well, the westgate stuff cannot be crossfaded like that becouse the legato script will only allow one voice to be played back, as opposed to the 5 it needs for a crossfade. Thats for the legato offcourse, rest of the lib should be fine.
I seem to recall the same regarding the Equal power crossfade script, or atleast i remember not getting it working at the time.
Correct me if im wrong by all means.

The solution i did was just splitting the patch in 5 with each Layer in its own patch with its own monophonic legato script, a bit cluttered in the kontakt rack, but who cares,. you still get the same result pluss its easier to edit like that becouse you only have 1 velocity layer in each patch.

oh and LAG is your friend. Dont be afraid of it


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## Pzy-Clone (Jun 30, 2010)

"As for managing 5 NKI patches - why not just copy and paste the groups from patches 2-5 to patch 1?"

Becouse you would get stuck with the original problem all over again... the Westgate legato scritpting will only allow 1 voice...you can`t do a crossfade with 1 voice 

Stevenson again - i already did this for the horns - i think i even posted a multi here at some point, if you want it just send me a PM.


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## Tod (Jun 30, 2010)

> that's backwards. velocity should access attack and mod wheel should access dynamics and we should have all dynamic layers available to modwheel x-fade.



Out of curiousity stevenson, how are they doing this with the attack, are they modulateing the ahdsr envelope with the mod (cc1) or is it part of the script?

I've used velocity on the ahdsr quite a bit as a modulator and it worked pretty good. The scaleing can be a little difficult and strange.


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## stevenson-again (Jun 30, 2010)

> "As for managing 5 NKI patches - why not just copy and paste the groups from patches 2-5 to patch 1?"



yeah it doesn't work. the script is locked and the groups must be referenced in the script. i tried renaming the groups but that didn't work either.

PZ - thanks for the offer but i think i have already done it. i'll bear it mind if i find my effort is rubbish.



> how are they doing this with the attack, are they modulateing the ahdsr envelope with the mod (cc1) or is it part of the scri



it appears to be part of the script. i did manage to change the attacks within the patches to respond to velocity and its better but i don't think i have quite nailed it.


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## Tod (Jun 30, 2010)

> appears to be part of the script. i did manage to change the attacks within the patches to respond to velocity and its better but i don't think i have quite nailed it.



Humm, if the attacks and the velocity xfrades are generated by the script and the script is locked, I don't think your going to do much to change it, at least for the better. Unfortunately I don't have westgate's horns so I don't know what's realy going on.

By what you've been saying I would think you can totally bypass or delete the script and create what you want to get. You mentioned it has logarithmic xfades, you might have to circumvent that for now and just try linear to see what happens unless cc1 is a modulation in the amplifier,.then you can copy it 

The first thing is to make sure each layer is in it's own group. Then make sure that all layers extend from 0 to 127 in the mapping editor. Actually they only need to conform to the scaleing but what the heck, take them all the way and give yourself some breathing room with the scaleing.

Next assign cc1 to each group and put in the scaleing. If your going to use linear put it in like I show above, basically divideing the scale by the number of groups and then xfade them.

For the attack you can assign velocity to the ahdsr envelope. If westgate is doing it in the script (useing cc1 in this case) then I believe you can do the same thing useing velocity as a modulator on the ahdsr. You just need to get the scaleing right,

When your done and you find there is some kind of legato or potamento built into the script, try SIPS with it.

Heh heh, I don't have a clue about the westgate library, I'm just going by whats been said on this thread. I could be totally out of whack here.
:mrgreen:


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## stevenson-again (Jul 1, 2010)

that all makes sense and fits in with what i have discovered myself, but it is a lot of work.

instead i set 5 patches up to the same midi channel, and set all the groups except attack to cc1 and the map thingy. i switched the attack groups over to velocity and gave them the same map thingy presets.

so then that works, but now i need it to work as a patch within an instrument bank. not possible as they are set up so i did some logic environment finegaling....


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## Cinemascore (Jul 1, 2010)

Quick question for you stevenson-again: have you tried inserting Nil's Equal Power script right after (not before) Westgate's legato script on one of those mutli-velocity stacked legato instruments? I found that it works with a velocity stacked VSL legato instrument when placed after the VSL legato script.

The equal crossfade script is comfortable with only one group, so this might work for you...


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## stevenson-again (Jul 2, 2010)

do you do this to smooth the transitions between layers?


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