# How's my mix/orchestration sounding!??



## SimonCharlesHanna (Mar 16, 2018)

Hey everyone! 

Wrote this one purely to add to my show reel. Feedback is always welcome


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## Grim_Universe (Mar 17, 2018)

It sounds good, but you always can do better, you know? A bit of compression, of bit of exciters, a bit of limiting and eqing here and there.. and you'll have a completely different result 
Orchetration-wise it is pretty good, I think.


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## OleJoergensen (Mar 17, 2018)

It sounds good, evey instrument is very clear to hear. I like your composition.
Which library did you use? Do you use some kind of software to place the different instrument in the room?


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## Grim_Universe (Mar 17, 2018)

By the way, Hanna.. If you do stuff like this, then be brutal: a lot of low frequencies, really extreme exciter values, a lot of reverb, etc.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tb9trubbk495pro/hannah2.wav?dl=0


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## Cătălin Popescu (Mar 17, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> Wrote this one purely to add to my show reel. Feedback is always welcome



It sounds really good, very realistic. Awesome dynamic range.
You can make it pop up more by cutting around 200, and boosting some high mids and some top end.

Orchestration is awesome. I would say you pushed it a little far to show off your harmonic skills, in detriment of the melodic content. The harmonic progression around 1:10 is cool, but confusing.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Mar 17, 2018)

OleJoergensen said:


> It sounds good, evey instrument is very clear to hear. I like your composition.
> Which library did you use? Do you use some kind of software to place the different instrument in the room?


Thanks mate - I used Spitfire for winds/strings/percussion & Ark 1 for brass - no placement software and just mild reverb on the master. 


Grim_Universe said:


> It sounds good, but you always can do better, you know? A bit of compression, of bit of exciters, a bit of limiting and eqing here and there.. and you'll have a completely different result
> Orchetration-wise it is pretty good, I think.


Thanks! Ill have a look at boosting it where I can - I don't want it too be too hybrid-esque though. 


Cătălin Popescu said:


> It sounds really good, very realistic. Awesome dynamic range.
> You can make it pop up more by cutting around 200, and boosting some high mids and some top end.
> 
> Orchestration is awesome. I would say you pushed it a little far to show off your harmonic skills, in detriment of the melodic content. The harmonic progression around 1:10 is cool, but confusing.


Thanks for the mixing advice, Ill have a look today and see what I can come up with.

Those couple of bars I was always a bit unhappy with but I decided just to leave it as I was spending way too much time trying to get a nice melody there.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Mar 17, 2018)

The difference is pretty mild. I didn't wanna go overboard. What do you think?


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## ka00 (Mar 17, 2018)

I really like this. And the bit starting at 1:16 is very moving for me.


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## NoamL (Mar 17, 2018)

Grim_Universe said:


> By the way, Hanna.. If you do stuff like this, then be brutal: a lot of low frequencies, really extreme exciter values, a lot of reverb, etc.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/tb9trubbk495pro/hannah2.wav?dl=0



Wow, this is a great remastering! Made it feel a lot more "cosmic."

@SimonCharlesHanna about the track itself I think it's a great collection of sci-fi-coded harmonic moves a la James Horner's "Treasure Planet", Basil Poledouris "Starship Troopers" etc. you clearly "know the codes." but I don't hear a unifying motif or melody. Bring in a much stronger melodic idea and just barely rebuild the track's existing moves around it and you'll have something really good.

I think if you split the difference between your 2nd mix and the amount of reverb on Eugene's mix it will be great.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Mar 17, 2018)

NoamL said:


> @SimonCharlesHanna about the track itself I think it's a great collection of sci-fi-coded harmonic moves a la James Horner's "Treasure Planet", Basil Poledouris "Starship Troopers" etc. you clearly "know the codes." but I don't hear a unifying motif or melody. Bring in a much stronger melodic idea and just barely rebuild the track's existing moves around it and you'll have something really good.



It's funny I said to @ka00 that this track would get that criticism. All the melodic content (except for the ostinatos) is based around the same idea but I will admit it's a tenuous connection. All I wanted to achieve in this track was those big hits so having melodic content was secondary...and trying to get something melodic happening that didn't need too much developing was tricky and evidently I didn't do a very good job.


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## dannymc (Mar 17, 2018)

i loved it


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Mar 17, 2018)

dannymc said:


> i loved it


Thanks Danny! Glad you enjoyed


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## Grim_Universe (Mar 17, 2018)

@SimonCharlesHanna Don't be afraid to make things "muddy". Sometimes it adds to the character  The real truth about mixing is that you can help yourself and your listeners with creating images. Space is dark, space is heavy, speace is reverb-y. Your second edition is better, but it stills lacks a bit of bass and reverb.
By the way, two chords can be a motif too, so I don't think it is really a huge problem. I really liked it.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Mar 18, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> Wrote this one purely to add to my show reel. Feedback is always welcome




Hej man,
Thanks for sharing your piece. Well my opinion so far: A great collage of sounds for a movie scene. It has a lot of atmosphere and the textures do well here in your track. Apart from that I would say that it misses though a bit of a thematic motivic anchor which you carry throughout your piece. This is imo a point of for what you aim: Do you want just an athmospheric collage of texture OR do you want a cohesive piece of music composition? This belongs more in the 1st category which works for underscoring pretty fine at some stage in a sci fi movie, but wouldn´t stand as a music theme title that much on its own. Maybe you can consider that when doing a 2nd track. My advice I would mix both worlds together.


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## Paul T McGraw (Mar 18, 2018)

@SimonCharlesHanna you did a great job here. The sound and the textures are marvelous.


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## patrick76 (Mar 18, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> It's funny I said to @ka00 that this track would get that criticism. All the melodic content (except for the ostinatos) is based around the same idea but I will admit it's a tenuous connection. All I wanted to achieve in this track was those big hits so having melodic content was secondary...and trying to get something melodic happening that didn't need too much developing was tricky and evidently I didn't do a very good job.




I think this is generally a criticism here because Mike Verta stresses it so much. I agree with his take in a broad sense, but his view on what constitutes music is definitely too narrow for me. Personally I don't think the melodic content is an issue in this context. Having said that, in my view Noam usually makes very good points so this is just my 2 cents on the matter. 

Anyway I think it is great work and the mix sounds nice as well.


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## ka00 (Mar 18, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Wrote this one purely to add to my show reel.



I think the context and purpose you intended this for should be the main basis on which to judge how successful it is. In the context of a demo of your skills, of showing off a palette of abilities and styles, it's great! It feels purpose written for a trailer edit you were handed, because structurally it covers so much ground in such a short amount of time, the way trailers do. It's a lot of sizzle in a short amount of time.


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## Rohann (Mar 18, 2018)

patrick76 said:


> I think this is generally a criticism here because Mike Verta stresses it so much. I agree with his take in a broad sense, but his view on what constitutes music is definitely too narrow for me. Personally I don't think the melodic content is an issue in this context. Having said that, in my view Noam usually makes very good points so this is just my 2 cents on the matter.
> 
> Anyway I think it is great work and the mix sounds nice as well.


I think taking away the "core" of what Mike talks about is important. I don't agree sometimes with the extremity of his views on music (this likely comes with the territory of being highly experienced and somewhat jaded by the pitfalls of the industry) -- not all music needs to be completely transportable, and _plenty _of dense, relatively non-melodic music is perfectly valid and extremely memorable. That said, my favourite composers _can _and more often than not do blend in memorable melodic elements into their work, whether they're a death metal band, video game composer, etc.
I think what's also frustrating (and this I agree with), is that there's an over-abundance of high-production work and a lack of musically sophisticated work -- I don't mean that academically, I simply mean that I haven't seen a film series incorporate solid leitmotif writing since Lord of the Rings, and the abundance of trailer music makes it really really hard to differentiate one guy from the next.

Textural pieces can be really thrilling, and there are atmospheric pieces I adore, but the importance of the existence of melody can't be understated when it comes to locking something into memory.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Mar 18, 2018)

patrick76 said:


> I think this is generally a criticism here because Mike Verta stresses it so much. I agree with his take in a broad sense, but his view on what constitutes music is definitely too narrow for me. Personally I don't think the melodic content is an issue in this context. Having said that, in my view Noam usually makes very good points so this is just my 2 cents on the matter.
> 
> Anyway I think it is great work and the mix sounds nice as well.


Thanks Patrick! Glad you enjoyed it.


Paul T McGraw said:


> @SimonCharlesHanna you did a great job here. The sound and the textures are marvelous.


Thanks as always Paul 


AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hej man,
> Thanks for sharing your piece. Well my opinion so far: A great collage of sounds for a movie scene. It has a lot of atmosphere and the textures do well here in your track. Apart from that I would say that it misses though a bit of a thematic motivic anchor which you carry throughout your piece. This is imo a point of for what you aim: Do you want just an athmospheric collage of texture OR do you want a cohesive piece of music composition? This belongs more in the 1st category which works for underscoring pretty fine at some stage in a sci fi movie, but wouldn´t stand as a music theme title that much on its own. Maybe you can consider that when doing a 2nd track. My advice I would mix both worlds together.





Rohann said:


> I think taking away the "core" of what Mike talks about is important. I don't agree sometimes with the extremity of his views on music (this likely comes with the territory of being highly experienced and somewhat jaded by the pitfalls of the industry) -- not all music needs to be completely transportable, and _plenty _of dense, relatively non-melodic music is perfectly valid and extremely memorable. That said, my favourite composers _can _and more often than not do blend in memorable melodic elements into their work, whether they're a death metal band, video game composer, etc.
> I think what's also frustrating (and this I agree with), is that there's an over-abundance of high-production work and a lack of musically sophisticated work -- I don't mean that academically, I simply mean that I haven't seen a film series incorporate solid leitmotif writing since Lord of the Rings, and the abundance of trailer music makes it really really hard to differentiate one guy from the next.
> 
> Textural pieces can be really thrilling, and there are atmospheric pieces I adore, but the importance of the existence of melody can't be understated when it comes to locking something into memory.


Thanks both of you to take the time. My main goal here was texture & impact...I wanted that sense of awe/wonder/fear of the unknown. Melody was definitely not my priority here and the track was actually quite a bit shorter originally. I've had another look through it and I just don't think I have the skills/understanding how I can develop some kind of theme with the amount space provided here.


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## ka00 (Mar 19, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I just don't think I have the skills/understanding how I can develop some kind of theme with the amount space provided here.



While I’m certainly no expert, I wonder if you could just revisit this at some point to create a longer version? I think that would allow you the canvas to explore making that “motivic” through-line the average person is expecting, without you having to contort what you’ve already done here too much. That is, if that interests you. It might not and that’s okay.


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## Cătălin Popescu (Mar 19, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> It's funny I said to @ka00 that this track would get that criticism.



Well I guess there are some lessons to be learned here 
1. You can't please everyone. 
2. Critics will always critique.
3. Your track is what it is, and not something else.

I've recently had a track being praised for it's melodicity, blamed for being too melodic and again blamed for not having enough melodic content & boring. However if I see a recurring comment like "structure", then I know there is a problem there.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Mar 19, 2018)

ka00 said:


> While I’m certainly no expert, I wonder if you could just revisit this at some point to create a longer version? I think that would allow you the canvas to explore making that “motivic” through-line the average person is expecting, without you having to contort what you’ve already done here too much. That is, if that interests you. It might not and that’s okay.


If I turned this into a 4-6minute piece then I would definitely be looking at a stronger motif. As I said though, with this piece I think I said all I wanted to with this piece but if approach another piece in a similar vein I will definitely work from a stronger motif right from the start! 

Thanks for the input


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Mar 19, 2018)

Cătălin Popescu said:


> Well I guess there are some lessons to be learned here
> 1. You can't please everyone.
> 2. Critics will always critique.
> 3. Your track is what it is, and not something else.
> ...


Yeah, I get ya. I think the critiques for not having a stronger motif are definitely founded, I just don't think it's a make or break deal in this case (personally).


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