# "There are no strings!?" Trying to transcribe "How TTY Dragon - This is Berk (John Powell)"



## Montisquirrel (Sep 9, 2019)

Hi everyone,

after all that Verta-classes I can't watch a new one without getting a guilty conscience when he repeats "All you need to do is transcribe..." 

So after some Pop-tunes I started with one of my all time favorite -> "This is Berk" by John Powell from the How to train your Dragon OST.

I bought the score sheet as an download pdf from www.sheetmusicplus.com (HTTYD Score Sheet. )

So I started with the first few bars by ear and than checked with the score. Conclusion: I have very bad ears or my score sheet is wong.

The sheet shows strings (Violin 1, Violin 2, Viola) in the beginning during the melodie, but there are no strings (besides Bass, cello) in the song I have on CD or which you can find on Youtube. So because this is my first ever orchestral song which I try to transcribe, I want to be sure, that my score sheet is the right one. I also watched some live perfomances of this on Youtube, never with these strings in teh beginning.

Long story short:

1) Is the score sheet wrong?
2) Do I need to train my ears?
3) something else...?

"This is Berk":


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## Jonathan Moray (Sep 9, 2019)

I would recommend using the recording that is available on SheetMusicPlus as you reference, instead of the real recording. But it seems that there's no reference recording for the sheet music you've purchased.

If you looked at this one for example: 





How to Train Your Dragon arr. Sean O'Loughlin| J.W. Pepper Sheet Music







www.jwpepper.com




 there's a small speaker you can click to hear the music played by a real orchestra using the sheet music they are selling, and there's also a camera that will take you to Hal Leonards YouTube where they show a follow along for the sheet music. This is very helpful because then you hear the orchestra play exactly what you have in your hand.

Because these transcriptions are not always a 100% accurate for various reasons. It's also common for them to move instruments around to accommodate different orchestral setups and orchestrations. The notes might be right, but the orchestration might be off.

In the intro to the original "This Is Berk" (the one you linked) there's not string at all. It sound like there's just trombones & tuba playing the drone / chord and horns playing the melody.


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## Jonathan Moray (Sep 9, 2019)

It's the same on SheetMusicPlus for most scores. If you look at this one:
https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-part-1-suite-from-sheet-music/19558731There's a small speaker that you can click to have a "look inside" the score, as well as listen to the recording.


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## Montisquirrel (Sep 9, 2019)

Jonathan Moray said:


> I would recommend using the recording that is available on SheetMusicPlus as you reference, instead of the real recording. But it seems that there's no reference recording for the sheet music you've purchased.
> 
> If you looked at this one for example:
> 
> ...




Thank you for the quick reply.
Thats kind of a bummer. I want to transcribe the original and not something with a different orchestration (or recording).

Thanks for the links, but there is no audio for the full orchestra version from my pdf. The link you posted shows an arrangement without strings at all.

Any other solutions where to get the real original score sheet?


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## Jonathan Moray (Sep 9, 2019)

Montisquirrel said:


> Thank you for the quick reply.
> Thats kind of a bummer. I want to transcribe the original and not something with a different orchestration (or recording).
> 
> Thanks for the links, but there is no audio for the full orchestra version from my pdf. The link you posted shows an arrangement without strings at all.
> ...



Yes, the one I posted is for a concert band. It's just to showcase what I meant.

If you have contacts in the industry you might be able to get the real sheets, but it's not easy getting originals. I believe some school/institutes have access to the real scores for some films. You could try and contact the composer directly, maybe not the big ones like John Powell, but I would believe most of them are under strict NDA and can't share any scores.

You should still not be deterred. You can still transcribe using the score you have I would say. They usually are close enough to where you can learn some harmony and composition from them. Even orchestration, just not like the original. If you then want to make it closer to the original you might have make some of the decisions yourself. They might switch parts around but the melody and rhythm is still the right notes, you just have to know that "Hey! That's not what Celli and Basses sound like, that sounds more like Horn and Trombones."

A somewhat reduced score, like the one you have, might be easier to start with than going for a full orchestral score like the original. Or even going even easier and start with something for band since they are usually not as busy. The only negative part about the one you bought is that there's no recording so you have nothing to reference.


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## DerGeist (Sep 9, 2019)

Montisquirrel said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> after all that Verta-classes I can't watch a new one without getting a guilty conscience when he repeats "All you need to do is transcribe..."
> 
> ...



If I have learned on thing over the years it is that sheet music is pretty much always wrong or should be treated with great suspicion


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## Jonathan Moray (Sep 9, 2019)

DerGeist said:


> If I have learned on thing over the years it is that sheet music is pretty much always wrong or should be treated with great suspicion



Yeah.

Hell, even originals are wrong sometimes since composer change things up until the very last second. Or rewrite cues during recording.


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## Montisquirrel (Sep 9, 2019)

Jonathan Moray said:


> Yes, the one I posted is for a concert band. It's just to showcase what I meant.
> 
> If you have contacts in the industry you might be able to get the real sheets, but it's not easy getting originals. I believe some school/institutes have access to the real scores for some films. You could try and contact the composer directly, maybe not the big ones like John Powell, but I would believe most of them are under strict NDA and can't share any scores.
> 
> ...



Thank you. You are right, I can still use it to learn.
I was just exited to start. I choose this song because I love it and I have listend to it very very often. That would make things easier for the beginning. 

Maybe it is really more easier to take a sheet from someone 100 oder 200 years ago which is free and every composer nowadays have learnt from them anyway...right?!


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## Jonathan Moray (Sep 9, 2019)

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants."
-- Isaac Newton

Studying older scores will teach you A LOT. That's what most of today's composers studied to get to where they are today. You build upon the work that has been before you, and make it your own. You don't have to figure everything out from scratch yourself, the groundwork has been laid for many years already. You just have break it down and see why it is the way it is.

There's also NO rules when it comes to music. But learning the basics of what western music is and why it sounds "good" or "bad" or what our ears are used to hearing is a good start. As Mike often stats, "You need to be in control of your craft." and when you are you can do whatever you want.

I find it more interesting to study more recent scores since that's what I like to listen to. But you can learn so much from older scores if you have the patience.


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## DerGeist (Sep 9, 2019)

My favorite is when the take the melody of a song and cram it into the piano chords turning a simple song into a brain crushing monster chord melody nonsense.


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## JohnG (Sep 9, 2019)

you could learn a lot from some of the scores that Omni Publishing has put out. I'm sure people can criticise anything, but I think they did a spectacular job bringing complete scores to us.

Some of them are very old. So is C-minor.


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## Andrew0568 (Sep 9, 2019)

How To Train Your Dragon Suite


Download and print in PDF or MIDI free sheet music for How To Train Your Dragon by John Powell arranged by Bradley.King for Piano, Trombone, Tuba, Vocals, Celesta, Trombone bass, Flute piccolo, Flute, Oboe, Clarinet contrabass, Bassoon, French horn, Timpani, Glockenspiel, Drum group, Marimba...




musescore.com





This might be helpful


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## Richard Wilkinson (Sep 9, 2019)

Also it's not a 'song' - as you wrote. My first thought was you'd found some odd arrangement with lyrics!

As the other have said, there's a lot of variation between the film score, the OST and the transcriptions available. Even the Hal Leonard John Williams signature editions are revoiced and re-orchestrated in places compared to the film scores.


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## wbacer (Sep 9, 2019)

I know this has been posted before on this forum but you can find a lot of downloadable scores here including HTTYD 1 and 2. There is a search box at the top of the page, type in "Submissions Index" and it will give you a list of composers and the scores that have been submitted.





r/CinemaScores


r/CinemaScores: A place to share scores from films, television, and video games. Complete scores, sketch scores, individual cues, concert suites …




www.reddit.com


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## Crowe (Sep 9, 2019)

Honestly, you've done exactly what Mike instructed you to do and there's no need for the 'real' score at all.

You successfully identified that the score you have and the music you listened to were not equal. If that's not what practicing transcribing is about I've been doing it wrong.

I suggest you carry on and work on it until your transcription sounds right *to you*. Whatever score you have is probably going to be wrong and should be more of a guideline anyway. You're doing great.


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## Jonathan Moray (Sep 9, 2019)

wbacer said:


> I know this has been posted before on this forum but you can find a lot of downloadable scores here including HTTYD 1 and 2. There is a search box at the top of the page, type in "Submissions Index" and it will give you a list of composers and the scores that have been submitted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not sure if that's allowed to be shared since it's the equivalent of piracy. Most of those scores are not acquire in a legit way and are most likely not allowed to be shared in the first place. But I'm not sure, just a heads up.


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## Nils Neumann (Sep 9, 2019)

I talked to an assistant of John Powell, and he explained to me that there are no official scores of the HTTYD series anywhere to buy. They can't do much about it because they don't own the score.


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## MartinH. (Sep 9, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> Honestly, you've done exactly what Mike instructed you to do and there's no need for the 'real' score at all.
> 
> You successfully identified that the score you have and the music you listened to were not equal. If that's not what practicing transcribing is about I've been doing it wrong.
> 
> I suggest you carry on and work on it until your transcription sounds right *to you*. Whatever score you have is probably going to be wrong and should be more of a guideline anyway. You're doing great.



+1

When I was recently mocking up a metal riff to make matching a reference track with my mix easier I was lazy and tried to just copy from a tab, but I've encountered a couple notes where I thought "the tab is wrong and the spectrum analyzer proves my version fits better", and that gave me a little confidence that the transcribing already helped me improve considerably, even though I haven't done many tracks and I exclusively transcribed stuff where I don't have the sheet music for it. If I had sheets that I knew for a fact are correct, that would certainly be preferable to speed up learning, but if they are wrong and you trust them, I could see that being harmful even.


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## Iskra (Sep 9, 2019)

Montisquirrel said:


> Maybe it is really more easier to take a sheet from someone 100 oder 200 years ago which is free and every composer nowadays have learnt from them anyway...right?!


Totally right. You can start by checking out Jean Sibelius, many orchestral scores available, and was quoted by John Powell as inspiration and object of study for the HTTYD soundtrack.
Plus, some critical listening of Sibelius' symphonies is absolutely joyful.


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## wbacer (Sep 9, 2019)

Jonathan Moray said:


> Not sure if that's allowed to be shared since it's the equivalent of piracy. Most of those scores are not acquire in a legit way and are most likely not allowed to be shared in the first place. But I'm not sure, just a heads up.


It's difficult to verify the authenticity or legality of any scores posted online. If I find a score online that I know can be purchased elsewhere from a legit source, I purchase the score and support the artist. It's only the right thing to do.


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## Montisquirrel (Sep 10, 2019)

Thanks for all your answers. It helped me to solve it. Thanks. Great community!


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## marclawsonmusic (Sep 10, 2019)

One final thought... if you want some reliable scores for study, check out IMSLP.org. Most of these are standard classical repertoire that you can also find great recordings of. 

For film music, the John Williams Hal Leonard scores are also pure gold (and very accurate).


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