# Seating arrangement



## akhill jain (Sep 8, 2021)

To explain my query better, I've a screenshot of one of the performances of Bruckner, Symphony 7
my query is about why is the second violin section more spread out than the first violin section which here just appears to be in 2 straight columns.
Also here the number of second violins is more than the first! While I realise it's a subjective choice, is it usual?


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## Hannes_F (Sep 8, 2021)

akhill jain said:


> To explain my query better, I've a screenshot of one of the performances of Bruckner, Symphony 7
> my query is about why is the second violin section more spread out than the first violin section which here just appears to be in 2 straight columns.
> Also here the number of second violins is more than the first! While I realise it's a subjective choice, is it usual?


Hi there, parts of what you identify as 2nd violins are also 1st violins. Just because there is a way for the conductor this does not necessarily mean that all persons left of the way are 1st violins and all that sit to the right are 2nd.

From the picture I would say that the last 4 persons behind the principal desk of the 2nd violin are also 1st violins, which makes it 12/9 - reasonable!


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## Hannes_F (Sep 8, 2021)

I have marked the 1st violins here.


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## akhill jain (Sep 8, 2021)

@Hannes_F Thank you Hannes! Your response was insightful and it does make sense. However I was curious about how were you able to point it out, for all one knows those could be a part of the 2nd Vlns. I believe some more clarity on the process will really be helpful.


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## Hannes_F (Sep 8, 2021)

Hi there, I have played in orchestras as a professional, and also I have watched many performances. Seating some 1st violins behind the 2nd is very common.

However I re-checked in another movement of that same series to find a passage where the 1st and 2nd violins differ more visibly and found the attached scene. From this perspective you can see that they actually have 5 desks of 1st violins in the first row, plus 1 desk behind the 2nd violins. You can see that the angle of their bows is different the violin sections in that moment. For the 1st violins, marked in blue, it is steeper because of playing on a higher string. Also the 1st violins are in the middle of the bow. The 2nd violins, marked in red, are playing at the beginning, at the "frog", which means that their hands are higher, closer to the strings of their violins.

From that moment I would count 12 1st violins and 11 2nd violins. One lady of the 2nd violins is sitting alone with an extra desk, I have marked her with a vertical red arrow.


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## akhill jain (Sep 9, 2021)

Hannes_F said:


> Hi there, I have played in orchestras as a professional, and also I have watched many performances. Seating some 1st violins behind the 2nd is very common.
> 
> However I re-checked in another movement of that same series to find a passage where the 1st and 2nd violins differ more visibly and found the attached scene. From this perspective you can see that they actually have 5 desks of 1st violins in the first row, plus 1 desk behind the 2nd violins. You can see that the angle of their bows is different the violin sections in that moment. For the 1st violins, marked in blue, it is steeper because of playing on a higher string. Also the 1st violins are in the middle of the bow. The 2nd violins, marked in red, are playing at the beginning, at the "frog", which means that their hands are higher, closer to the strings of their violins.
> 
> From that moment I would count 12 1st violins and 11 2nd violins. One lady of the 2nd violins is sitting alone with an extra desk, I have marked her with a vertical red arrow.


Thank you so much Hannes, this has been really helpful! Cheers!


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