# Why was Larry's SM thread title changed?



## RiffWraith (Jul 6, 2015)

Houston we have a problem. Problem is, the thread title was changed.

http://vi-control.net/community/index.php?threads/samplemodeling-saxes.46453/

I forget the original title, but it was a tad critical. And I fear this is why it was changed. If a thread title is: _SM - bunch of a**holes!!!_ - then it should be changed. B/c there is no reason for that. But Larry's thread title was not demeaning nor disrespectful. And it certainly did not violate any forum rule. Furthermore, this is not the first time I have seen this - when thread titles get altered b/c they seem less than favorable to devs.

The mod who changed the title should be a man, and step up here and explain himself. If we get to the point of mods altering thread titles that are seemingly unfavorable to devs, then this place has turned into NSS, and that means the downfall of the VI forum has already started taking place.

Cheers.


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## Michael K. Bain (Jul 6, 2015)

RiffWraith said:


> The mod who changed the title should be a man, and step up here and explain himself.


What if the mod who did it is a female ? Does she need to step up and be a man?


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## playz123 (Jul 6, 2015)

If someone could tell us what the title was originally, it might be easier to form an opinion.  In any case I've never seen Larry write something that I, for one, would consider offensive, so perhaps some sort of explanation is indeed in order.


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## José Herring (Jul 6, 2015)

Well it is obvious that this place is trying to be more dev. friendly. It was inevitable. Just hope it doesn't go the way of Northern Sounds where the devs. determined who lived and who got banned.


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## Rob (Jul 6, 2015)

silence means a lot...


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 6, 2015)

Michael K. Bain said:


> What if the mod who did it is a female ? Does she need to step up and be a man?



Wow. Female mods at VI-C. There's a thought.


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## windshore (Jul 6, 2015)

It's always a conspiracy right!
Why not take the direct approach and just ask him instead of starting a thread about it?


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## RiffWraith (Jul 6, 2015)

windshore said:


> It's always a conspiracy right!
> Why not take the direct approach and just ask him instead of starting a thread about it?



Ask who, Mark?


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## Mike Greene (Jul 6, 2015)

I, and at least 2 other mods, are as in the dark about it as you are. In fact, before you chimed in, I assumed _you_ changed it, even though I personally didn't think it needed changing in the first place.


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## rJames (Jul 6, 2015)

I hope the mods here know how thin the ice gets in this situation. You must realize that most of the damage from these kind of things doesn't come from the action, but from the evasion of a direct answer about it.
Is this all part of the "new" VI? Remember Northern Sounds?


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## Hannes_F (Jul 6, 2015)

But what can we say if we don't know?

BTW, out of interest: Larry, could you make up a title just similar to the original one, so we can have an estimation? Thanks.


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## The Darris (Jul 6, 2015)

Hearing about this and the fact that a few mods are unaware is a sign that they all need to get together to get on the same page of how this site should be run. I understand the slippery slope of criticizing tools used but when it is a thread such as the one in question, the moderator who changed the title should have read the post. There was nothing at all derogatory in it and was pretty easy to figure out that NYC's intent was genuine. Just food for thought.


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## Hannes_F (Jul 6, 2015)

Gentlemen,
oK here we go again with heaps of well-meaning users that try to teach us how to moderate the forum. As if that would be the point here - I understand you are concerned but I think it is not.

Before jumping to conclusions I suggest everybody wait a little until Frederick logs in again and I am sure we'll get an explanation. It could have been an attempt of stealth moderating but we all have our experience that this does not work too well. It could also be a technical glitch, for example the incomplete restauration of a forum title (I have been there before with thread editings gone south). Until then all is speculation anyways and quite moot. Tomorrow is still another day.

Larry, I don't quite understand why you are asking but try to answer your questions.


> Btw- regardless, did you read my first post?


Yes.


> Do you honestly think I would trash SM?


No, you made that quite clear.


> Have you observed uncivil forum behavior from me?


No, on the contrary.


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## FriFlo (Jul 6, 2015)

Well, we actually all know why the title got changed! ... Just, nobody dares to say ...


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## Hannes_F (Jul 6, 2015)

Nah, we have had much worse titles than that. Much.

Actually here is another speculation: I just learned that the new forum obviously has a mod script running that is constantly on search for certain keywords, spam and other things that we still need to explore. We mods can then see a list of items for approving or dumping, however this list does not give the context. Maybe somebody rushed through this list in a hurry without reading the actual post. It is still quite experimental.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 6, 2015)

All the fears about this forum turning into whatever it is the fears are about are totally nuts. Come on, most of you guys have been here for years; you know Frederick's not going to turn VI-C into Northernenclosure.

As Mike says, none of the moderators has any idea what happened. Things aren't quite settled with the forum move yet, and the moderation set-up may be part of that (or it may not - I'm not sure).

But puhleeze. This is turning into a conspiracy theory thread!


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## Hannes_F (Jul 6, 2015)

Wow ...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 6, 2015)

Why do I bother?


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## jason.d (Jul 6, 2015)

I noticed that John Taylor's thread about 8Dio got its title changed as well. The thread title renaming seems to be a typical occurrence in this forum.

A forum is a place where people should feel free to speak their true opinions and not have to tip toe around their words. It's simple, people don't like to be sensored. Sure, it's starts subtle like truncating thread titles, but once people start to feel like their words are being edited by somebody else, they will choose somewhere else to have conversations and speak more freely. It's not that hard to start a forum nowadays...

It's a very nice community here, and I think that the managers of this site need to realize that the users are more significant than the website itself.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Frederick Russ (Jul 6, 2015)

I too am in the dark about the change of the title. Someone decided to change it though. It wasn't me. 

That said, I sincerely doubt that we're talking about going into another NSS debacle and for the most part we've stayed true to staying out of things - within reason. Light handed for the most part. We do have a set of guidelines however and while moderators retain the right to moderate, you also retain the right to complain about it without repercussions - AS ALWAYS.

http://vi-control.net/community/index.php?threads/guideline-rules-for-vi-control-forum-updated.3/

I'm not asking anyone to agree. These are the guidelines however and they have been in place for quite some time now although not always enforced.


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## RiffWraith (Jul 6, 2015)

Frederick, the guidelines you have posted are fair and just, and by no means overbearing. I really don't think anyone in their right mind would take issue with anything there.

To Larry's thread.

*Guideline Rules for VI Control Forum

4b. Inflammatory thread titling* Another phenomenon we've noticed are members who create inflammatory titles to threads that suggest an ongoing problem. When the thread is reviewed however, we then find it is one isolated case not an ongoing problem which many times the member has failed to even present to the developer. _We reserve the right to edit the title name in all fairness to the developer mentioned._ Further, any member who has a history of creating such inflammatory threads may lose their posting privileges.

^ Makes perfect sense to me.

As with Larry, I too do not remember the exact original thread title, but as he stated earlier, it was indeed very close to "_Sample Modeling Saxes- crossgrade policy unfair?_"

That hardly meets the 'inflammatory' criteria. Understandably, there will at times be a fine line between fairness to the dev, vs. freedom of speech. But if we can't call a dev's policy unfair - which is obviously the thread starter's _opinion_ - that reeks of not only censorship, but an attempt to stifle any and all negative comments about any dev. I am sure that is not what anyone wants around here.

Cheers.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 6, 2015)

Larry. Relax. Change down, man. Find your neutral zone. Smoke a Camberwell Carrot (the only spliff known to utilize up to twelve skins).


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 6, 2015)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094336/quotes

[URL='http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0114460/?ref_=tt_trv_qu']Danny: The joint I'm about to roll requires a craftsman. It can utilise up to 12 skins. It is called a Camberwell Carrot. 

Marwood: It's impossible to use 12 papers on one joint. 

Danny: It's impossible to make a Camberwell Carrot with anything less. 

Withnail: Who says it's a Camberwell Carrot? 

Danny: I do. I invented it in Camberwell, and it looks like a carrot.

***

Marwood[/URL]: [after trying the Camberwell Carrot] Give me a downer, Danny. My brain's capsizing, I've gotta unfuck my brain! 

Danny: Change down, man. Find your neutral space. You got a rush. It'll pass. Be seated. 

Marwood: Aren't you getting absurdly high? 

Danny: Precisely the reason I'm smoking it.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 6, 2015)

While we're off the subject:

Danny: I don't advise a haircut, man. All hairdressers are in the employment of the government. Hair are your aerials. They pick up signals from the cosmos, and transmit them directly into the brain. This is the reason bald-headed men are uptight.


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## madbulk (Jul 7, 2015)

Top of the morning, just got here, first thoughts...
Thicker skin wouldn't hurt.
If members are defending the constitution, it's love for the forum that propels them. The moderated know that the mods have earned their confidence. But there'll be no complacency and to expect it belies the mods' seniority. Threads like this aren't going away. And really even a new site design is transitional enough to expect an uptick.
Every chance you get to respond to "developer friendly" and "censorship" accusations is a day you might as well take advantage of, Gentlemen.


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## rJames (Jul 7, 2015)

Threads like this shouldn't go away. If Frederick doesn't even know why or who changed the thread title, then this thread has served a purpose. Do we need to lynch the mod who changed the title? No. But some of us appreciate that we can vent or praise here at VI. My point is that it is exactly the reason why we all moved here from Northern Sounds and (I think) the impetus for its beginning.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jul 8, 2015)

Ok I'll admit it...I didn't change the title.

this is all very strange because we always confer if we are going to do something like this.


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## Lawson. (Jul 8, 2015)

The mystery gets deeper…. :o


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## synthpunk (Jul 8, 2015)

I have also had a thread title Changed here:
http://vi-control.net/community/index.php?threads/why-was-larrys-sm-thread-title-changed.46462/

Has someone hacked in and gotten admin rights when the new site just went up ?

I hope the issue is addressed.


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## Hannes_F (Jul 8, 2015)

Aesthete, just for clarification: You are linking to this very thread.

So do you say that we have definitely one or two changed thread titles that we are talking about?


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