# VPS Avenger



## Pier (Oct 18, 2022)

I will admit that whenever I looked at demos for Avenger I stumbled upon these type of EDM demos by Bartek which didn't inspire much conficence...

BUT I tried the demo yesterday and this synth is actually good.

Sounds great. Super versatile and powerful. Resizable and snappy UI with not horrible aesthetics. The usability and workflow are generally good. The learning curve is almost zero I was familiar with it in minutes.

I've seen some people on Reddit and KVR complaining about the authentication of the license and bad support. It seems there was some previous licensing system which users hated and then they changed it at some point?

Anyone here using it and would recommend it?


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## whinecellar (Oct 18, 2022)

It is a fantastic synth - quite the "inspiration station" and sounds like a million bucks. But yes, their authentication system is over-complicated and ridiculous. You have to remember to run it every 3 months or it makes you jump through a bunch of hoops to get it going again. I'll never know why companies make it hard for people to use their products!


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## sean8877 (Oct 18, 2022)

I don't make EDM but I use Avenger for other styles like Pop. It's a great sounding synth. They were using Codemeter for licensing which was terrible and you needed to re-verify every 90 days and there were always issues getting it to verify. But they removed the 90 day restriction and some other behind the scenes changes with the licensing and it's working much better now. I haven't had any issues with licensing since they made the update. As far as support it's been fine for me any time I've had to contact them and any issues were resolved quickly.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 18, 2022)

I wanted to get it once. But in stead decided on Parawave Rapid. Which is another sleeper giant synth you’ll like.


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## whinecellar (Oct 18, 2022)

sean8877 said:


> I don't make EDM but I use Avenger for other styles like Pop. It's a great sounding synth. They were using Codemeter for licensing which was terrible and you needed to re-verify every 90 days and there were always issues getting it to verify. But they removed the 90 day restriction and some other behind the scenes changes with the licensing and it's working much better now. I haven't had any issues with licensing since they made the update. As far as support it's been fine for me any time I've had to contact them and any issues were resolved quickly.


Wow, that's great news - hadn't heard that. Is it just a matter of updating the plugin itself to get on the new licensing system?


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## Pier (Oct 18, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I wanted to get it once. But in stead decided on Parawave Rapid. Which is another sleeper giant synth you’ll like.


Yeah I've been considering that one too!

Let's start a new thread for Parawave Rapid!


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## sean8877 (Oct 18, 2022)

whinecellar said:


> Wow, that's great news - hadn't heard that. Is it just a matter of updating the plugin itself to get on the new licensing system?


Yes there was an update maybe last year or earlier this year? I can't remember exactly but if you go to your account on the site you should be able to download the latest version. One thing I need to correct with my previous post that I just looked up, you do need to re-activate after 90 days but it's done by logging in through the plugin (you need to be online to log in). So that might be a deal breaker for some people. I'd forgotten that since it only happens every so often. There have never been any issues logging in that way for me but I understand it might be an issue for some people whose studio are offline.


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## zvenx (Oct 18, 2022)

You can log in thru the plugin? Are you sure?
I think they are two ways to do it.. the v-manager app or your account on their website.

rsp


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## sean8877 (Oct 18, 2022)

zvenx said:


> You can log in thru the plugin? Are you sure?
> I think they are two ways to do it.. the v-manager app or your account on their website.
> 
> rsp


Yes I just tried it, I hadn't used Avenger for a while and I logged in through the plugin. Maybe ther are other ways like through v-manager, but I just logged in through the plugin.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 18, 2022)

I am actually kind of tempted by Avenger 2 myself Pier. In terms of UI and sound it does impress.

It seems v2 has not been released yet?


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## zvenx (Oct 18, 2022)

v2 most likely next year.
Manuel keeps giving us teases.

edit: the video he says possibly end of this year.
rsp


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## zvenx (Oct 18, 2022)

sean8877 said:


> Yes I just tried it, I hadn't used Avenger for a while and I logged in through the plugin. Maybe ther are other ways like through v-manager, but I just logged in through the plugin.


Where exactly in the plugin do you log on from? I have the plugin open right now and still don't see where.
Where do you go on the interface to do so?
rsp


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## sean8877 (Oct 18, 2022)

zvenx said:


> Where exactly in the plugin do you log on from? I have the plugin open right now and still don't see where.
> Where do you go on the interface to do so?
> rsp


I was past the 90 day license window and the plugin came up with a login prompt when I brought it up. I don't know if there's any way to login if you are currently within the license window but you might want to check with support if you really want to find that out. I am running v1.8.2 so if you have an earlier version it might not function like that also.


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## zvenx (Oct 18, 2022)

Ahh ok.. so it prompts you If the 90 days have expired.. ok thanks

I have 1.8.4 which they retracted but it is the lowest cpu one I have ever had so I have been keeping it.
(avenger doesn't like low latency at all)
rsp


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## scoplunk (Oct 18, 2022)

This is a fantastic synth. Like Pier, I found my way around in no time, but the manual is worth going through, because there's even more in there than you'll probably find by just browsing around. It can be hard on a CPU, but I can say that about most of my powerful hybrid synths. 

I gave up trying to figure out why some synths click with some people and don't work for others a long time ago, but for some reason, this is one that really works for me. It's a great set of sound mangling tools in a fairly logical little interface. I don't think I've ever opened it up and not found something interesting that I could do with it. It is deep, though, so It can be a dangerous rabbit hole when I'm just trying to find a sound and get out of there. But, that says more about me than Avenger. 

I have a lot of fun working with this synth and I'm always surprised that it isn't mentioned more on this forum. I guess that since most of the sound sets for it concentrate on dance music, it has a reputation for being more of an EDM synth. But, it's just an exceptionally powerful synth, period. You can do whatever you want with this thing. I highly recommend trying it out.


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## Pier (Oct 18, 2022)

zvenx said:


> v2 most likely next year.
> Manuel keeps giving us teases.
> 
> edit: the video he says possibly end of this year.
> rsp


IIRC Manuel said on KVR late 2023 or early 2024.


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## Pier (Oct 18, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I am actually kind of tempted by Avenger 2 myself Pier. In terms of UI and sound it does impress.
> 
> It seems v2 has not been released yet?



Woah great studio.

And yeah v2 is looking great!


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## zvenx (Oct 18, 2022)

Pier said:


> IIRC Manuel said on KVR late 2023 or early 2024.


He did which is why I initially said next year, but in the video you mentioned above, he says they are trying for end of year this year.
rsp


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## Pier (Oct 18, 2022)

scoplunk said:


> I have a lot of fun working with this synth and I'm always surprised that it isn't mentioned more on this forum. I guess that since most of the sound sets for it concentrate on dance music, it has a reputation for being more of an EDM synth. But, it's just an exceptionally powerful synth, period. You can do whatever you want with this thing. I highly recommend trying it out.


Actually what made take a more serious look into it was some of @charlieclouser comments on this GS thread.

TL;DR: He's very enthusiastic about Avenger "It's in my top five [virtual synths] for sure".


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## cloudbuster (Oct 18, 2022)

Avenger has replaced Synthmaster 2 as my bread and butter synth a while ago, even though I still prefer the more 'silky' sound character of SM2 but that's pretty subtle and most likely a subjective thing anyway.
Feature wise Avenger still amazes me on a daily basis, it managed to replace some of my long-time go-to synths over the last couple years but what impresses me the most ... even with all those bells and whistles aboard I can get results as quick or faster than with any other SW synth.
If there's one thing I don't like too much about A. it's the available skins; I still find myself switching back and forth between two of them but from what I've seen so far Avenger 2 looks a bit easier on the eyes, can't wait to get my hands on it.


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## charlieclouser (Oct 18, 2022)

Pier said:


> Actually what made take a more serious look into it was some of @charlieclouser comments on this GS thread.
> 
> TL;DR: He's very enthusiastic about Avenger "It's in my top five [virtual synths] for sure".


Yes, I still like Avenger - it's a nasty little beastie. I'm excited to see the v2, hopefully the authorization is a little less strange?


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## doctoremmet (Oct 19, 2022)

Apparently v2 is going to be a paid upgrade which makes me wonder if I’d get it on release, or get v1 now and do a tiered purchase. I think I’ll wait for another one of those 50% off sales, like the one they ran last month anyway.


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## Sid Francis (Oct 19, 2022)

Hi Pier

My 2 cents: bought it second hand at knobcloud for 100 bucks with three extensions: more than worth the money, much more! Really a beast with its possibilities and you can turn off every single element in the presets that is too much "instant disco/club" for you (shows how old I am  ). But often some of the elements of these "one key wonders" are usable for a different task.


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## Pier (Oct 19, 2022)

Sid Francis said:


> Hi Pier
> 
> My 2 cents: bought it second hand at knobcloud for 100 bucks with three extensions: more than worth the money, much more! Really a beast with its possibilities and you can turn off every single element in the presets that is too much "instant disco/club" for you (shows how old I am  ). But often some of the elements of these "one key wonders" are usable for a different task.


Thanks Sid.

I will get it for sure when the next opportunity comes up!


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## Drumdude2112 (Oct 19, 2022)

Its a BEAST buy it…2.0 may be out by years end too 👍🏻


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## Bovinator (Oct 19, 2022)

I think out of all the software I have bought (Logic & Finale as well probably), it’s the one purchase that has paid itself back 100x over.

With the new update, the install and authorization process is a bit less of a PITA but still not entirely intuitive.

Maybe less important for you guys, the factory library (and some of the extensions) are super useful for media/kids/dance/electronic music so even though it wasn’t my favorite UI originally, I just found that I saved so much time going straight to this synth first when looking for a sound.

The built-in FX are great – I almost never use anything after the plugin.
I've used the electronic drum sounds and sequencer on more tracks than I'd want to admit.
It's also my go-to for hybrid horn section sounds – and the I'm still finding other things it does well that I wouldn't have at first thought of.
I've even found use for the one finger "band in a box" presets by stripping out just the elements that I want and tweaking from there.

I've heard some good cinematic sounding libraries for it recently so maybe other people are starting to think about it as more than just an EDM synth.

It's kinda the synth that I didn't want to like (sound-wise – it didn't seem like it was the best at anything), but just proved to be so utilitarian (in that it seems to easily fit in so many different scenarios).

And yes – I kinda wish they would stop all those Bartek videos


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## gsilbers (Oct 19, 2022)

Still havig issues with authorization :/ 
Its just one of those things that professionals cannot deal with. ITs a new issue everytime i open it. 
its better though. the codemeter was crazy bad. 

I think the UI got too busy and its trying to do too many things at once. ANd its basically trying to do the synth version of REFX and too EDM centric. But adding your own custom sound sources and it could be a beast.

But for some reason they are extremly focus on one page UI and its busy AF. 
I like some ideas on some modules. But overall they forced that REFX style of band in a box workflow and its dizzying. And it sounds just as cheesy as the demo for 2.0 where they make fun of happy tehcno. Still somehow they keep making more of those sound sets. 
And the soundsources very EDM centric making it sound thin in general when it could be better.
Too bad becuase its sound design potential is great. Thats where omnisphere shines, the soundsources. Even the sampled synths have variety. 

with that said, i use it all the time.. once i figure out the authoization issues and remeber to use it.


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## antret (Oct 20, 2022)

Don’t own it, but it’s on the (very short) list for when I need to buy a ‘super synth’. 

When I demoed against the usual suspects, I was always pleasantly surprised by this beast. Lots of functionality. Relatively user friendly gui. Great sounds to be had.

If I didn’t have Equator 2, I would be making a move towards this for sure. They’re not super similar, but you can rent to own Equator thru Splice. That was a pretty low barrier of entry for me.


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## GainStaging (Oct 20, 2022)

They say the upgrade price to v2 is around €100, but a definite price hasn't been set.

I recently sold mine. I dont feel like I would want v2. It's got nice features, but honestly they should have addressed some of the oversized/undersized UI knobs and texts first. However, none of the teaser videos showed any improvements over these UI annoyances. It's also the only synth that has crashed my DAWs.

It's a good synth, especially if you dont already have any of these: MSoundFactory, Falcon, Phase Plant, Rapid, Dune 3, and maybe other similar ones I dont know about.

But once I have 1 or 2 of these, I found Avenger less appealing. Avenger just uses way more CPU and RAM than any of these. Plus, the UI is very tiring to look at on smaller screens.

It seems like Avenger is made to first let the devs make more expansion packs to sell, before being made to offer a tool for sound design. One interesting thing I noticed about the online user groups of these synths is that of them all, Avenger has the highest frequency of users asking about upcoming Avenger expansions.

I feel like this synth attracts people who like the presets more than they like the synth itself. Yet, it has one of the most expensive expansions of all these other synths. On top of this, Avenger also has this policy where users cannot use the melodies/loops in their expansions for commercial music without altering them "significantly".


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## Pier (Oct 20, 2022)

GainStaging said:


> they should have addressed some of the oversized/undersized UI knobs and texts first


Yeah this is the biggest problem with the UI. Specially with the effects panes. If you look how Manuel works with a huge TV as monitor it probably explains why they're fine with that.






OTOH the UI has some really great elements too. The sequencer is really lightyear ahead of anything by U-He.



GainStaging said:


> It seems like Avenger is made to first let the devs make more expansion packs to sell, before being made to offer a tool for sound design.


That's a bit contradictory though, no?

Manuel is custom tailoring the synth for doing sound design which is how he is making those expansion packs (or most of them I think).


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## AceAudioHQ (Oct 20, 2022)

I enojy Avenger a lot, especially since it gives you the sounds of classic songs from retro genres, most of the demos and sequences are almost copies of some of the greatest hits from previous decades, as a media composer that thrives on sound-a-likes that's what actually I wanted from it, also since I'm too lazy to actually make sounds from scratch, but as it's a real synth you get much more if you want to tweak it. I enjoy Bartek's videos a lot since he's always in such a positive mood. It has some of the same sound designers as Nexus but it's a bit more. The sound design is great overall, the sound packs are a bit expensive, but there are always sales, usually -30%.


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## GainStaging (Oct 20, 2022)

Pier said:


> That's a bit contradictory though, no?


I meant that because the UI is hard to use for people like me, it seems like it's designed first with in mind how Manuel works rather than how most people, who don't have a large TV screen and large studio room, would work.

Also, the focus on v2 being all just features rather than UI improvements makes me feel that as long as Manuel can keep pumping out expansions for Bartek to jam to and then sell to users, they are fine with the way the UI is. But to us, the UI is not really comfortable to work with. Hence, I say Avenger is made first to let the devs make expansions before it is made to let us users design our own presets.


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## sostenuto (Oct 20, 2022)

THX for Vid !! Always cool to watch capable dudes, and learn. 
Not placing Avenger, Rapid, PP, is 'super synth category. 
For decades-long Omni /Trilian user, only Falcon 2.8 now reaches that level, yet Zebra 3 may be next.
Tough economies globally, and BF may bring amazing offers / intros.


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## Pier (Oct 20, 2022)

GainStaging said:


> But to us, the UI is not really comfortable to work with.


I can totally see that if you're working on a laptop. I've used the demo on a 27'' monitor and it's fine.


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## GainStaging (Oct 20, 2022)

Pier said:


> I can totally see that if you're working on a laptop. I've used the demo on a 27'' monitor and it's fine.


I use 22in 1080p and it makes my eyes sore. None of these other synths make my eyes sore like Avenger.

As I've said, it is a good synth. If your stuff (monitor, PC, Mac, whatever) can runs this well, then it's a nice synth to get. I got it in the first place because it is a nice synth, heck I even upgraded to 32 GB RAM just for Avenger (16GB was enough for all those other synths) but after using it for a while, I realized that it's not usable for me nonetheless because of the discomfort it causes.


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## Pier (Oct 28, 2022)

Some updates on Avenger 2. It seems to be still quite far away.


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