# Road Rig?



## mverta (Oct 18, 2015)

I want to do as streamlined a rig as possible for live gigs - I was thinking Vienna Ensemble running Kontakt and other plug-ins on a PC laptop (several of my analog-emulating VIs are PC only), and an interface, plus one or two controller keyboards. Anybody doing this/have recommendations/know of pitfalls?

Thanks,

_Mike


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## givemenoughrope (Oct 18, 2015)

I can't offer any advice for the PC side (although I'm interested as well) but you could always grab a used 2012 MBP i7 Quad 2.3 or 2.7 and then add two internal SSDs from OWC (search for 'Data Doubler') and 16 GBs Ram. It has served me well for a while live and in the studio. You could also add a Mini (or two) with the same specs. Works great over here.


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## sleepy hollow (Oct 18, 2015)

Paging chimuelo to the tread. 

Make sure you get cables that lie flat on the ground. Choose an appropriate length. Pay a few dollars more and get cables with quality connectors and proper shielding, those will probably last 10 or more years.

I'd want a rock-solid interface, a topic probably worth its own thread.

Check if you need any accessories, a USB hub or something like that.

I think I'd buy an additional screen. $120 for a simple Asus or Samsung 22" monitor, although that's not exactly streamlined. The monitor would also need a softcase or something.

What about speakers? Do you need to bring your own monitoring?


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## proxima (Oct 18, 2015)

Don't discount the possibility of Macbook Pros; they can run Windows well and are in general great hardware. My high-end Lenovo laptop is noisy (the fan runs often) and cheap-feeling (especially the trackpad, ick) compared to its similarly-priced Macbook Pro.


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## mverta (Oct 18, 2015)

I have a new-ish Macbook Pro which I suppose I could repurpose for the task, running Windows, yes... hmm! 

I'm not exactly new to gigging, but definitely new to trying to do it without a road crew  So ideally some sort of laptop+interface+controller thing would be best.


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## Farkle (Oct 19, 2015)

Mike, I used to use a PC laptop with VST's loaded for my keyboard gigs. I used this software (Cantabile) to host my instruments, and keyswitch/program change between them.

http://www.cantabilesoftware.com/

In terms of hardware, Jim Roseberry at Studio Cat builds custom laptop DAW stations. He focuses on rock solid performance, and quiet performance. I would drop him a line, he could help spec out a custom rig for you.

http://www.studiocat.com/

As far as interfaces, I used a Midiman 2x2 midi interface, and then, for audio, I ended up being a cheapie, and using an old Edirol USB interface. (I believe it was the UA-1EX). It actually worked pretty well, ran it at 256 sample latency. I believe Behringer bought the tech, because their current USB interface looks an awful lot like the old Roland one.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UCA222

So, that was my setup. that was 7 years ago, so with modern processors and RAM, you should be able to buy a reasonable (1500$) custom laptop that screams.

I hope that this helps!

Mike


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## chimuelo (Oct 19, 2015)

Well I can't help unless you want real time performance gear.
Lots of guys use a laptop I know and Cantible Bidule or Forte.
But I couldn't get the sound quality I wanted.
Built a short depth 1U ATX and bought a 1U DSP XITE1.
I have several rigs based on this 2U that fits in a luggage compartment on any airline.
Rental guys bring an 88 note controller x 2 and amplification.
Use my Tablet or somebody's iPad to boot up.
After that it's totally automated.

I did try the ADK Pro but laptop connections using Express 34 or USB ain't happening.

I would build a small 2U and run a quality audio/MIDI snake.
IEMs are crucial too.
I can make my own mix from FOH or just monitor myself if the stage volume is loud enough.

A VAX-77 is great as it can fold into a backpack.
Very good portable controller.
I usually get stuck with KS88s.
Not ideal but easy and fast for splits.


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## mverta (Oct 19, 2015)

Great info; thanks! 

So here's a question: If I run Windows via Bootcamp, hosting Forte, can I stream samples from a Thunderbolt SSD?


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## chimuelo (Oct 19, 2015)

MVerta. 
If you tell me which audio interface you plan on usong it would help.
Lots of guys use Mac for recording and PC for live on a dual boot system.
TBolt 2 is a great streamer for laptops.
But then unless you use Express 34 PCI-e connections youll be trusting USB for audio and MIDI.

Its hard enough getting MIDI to play nice over USB.
But both............yikes!!!!


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## mverta (Oct 19, 2015)

I have nothing picked out yet; that's why I'm asking! I was just thinking ahead and wondering if bootcamp running Windows 7 can access an external ssd steaming samples to, say, Kontakt hosted in Forte. Interface wise, I'm open to suggestions!


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## proxima (Oct 19, 2015)

mverta said:


> Great info; thanks!
> 
> So here's a question: If I run Windows via Bootcamp, hosting Forte, can I stream samples from a Thunderbolt SSD?


Yes, a properly configured Windows install should be able to use the Thunderbolt ports, including storage devices. If you install Windows 8 (or maybe Windows 10, I dunno) instead of Windows 7, you may run into this, but it looks like a trivial fix.

Seems worth trying to see how well it works for you. Windows licenses are pretty cheap these days. I don't have personal experience setting up boot camp though, as my dual boot days were all Windows/Linux, not Windows/Mac.


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## mverta (Oct 19, 2015)

Well I have something like 200 Windows 7 licenses, not all of them activated and I like the OS, so I'd probably go with that. Still unsure about interfaces, though.


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## chimuelo (Oct 19, 2015)

Kontakt is a walk in the park with any host.
Being a family man I am sure you're frugally wise.
I'd start with any RME.

If you really start enjoying and want a convincing recording /mixing environment. My 1U DSP rack has replaced an entire full hardware mixer and racked FX.

Basically a mobile recording studio. Even creates full monitor mixes with IEMs. Those mixes receive sends from FOH if needed too.

Not necessary unless you really start growing into a serious gig.

I sometimes have rental companies provide backline gear and I waltz in with a little 2U that sits in an airline luggage rack. Use my Tablet just to boot up. Automated by controllers after that. Incredible ROI.


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## woodslanding (Nov 30, 2015)

I've ordered the new Vax, we'll see what that's like. But it doesn't fold 

You got me thinking about a rackmount build again. Kind of gave that up when I built my keyboard around the mac mini.... The thing is too big to fly with, I'd have to freight it, not that I'm traveling much with 2 small kids at home anyway (in fact it hasn't actually come up yet.)

But what do you do for knobs?? Just remap them before the gig to whatever you get? Last time I tried to do that I didn't get any of the actual controllers I spec'd and I was knee deep in manuals right up to downbeat trying to get the knobs and drawbar sliders mapped. No 'waltzing' there!


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## chimuelo (Dec 2, 2015)

Remapping 36 CCs to whatever is available takes a few minutes.
Drawbar swells require a single CC Since I use custom MIDI Devices in the Scope XITE-1 DSP Rack.
787000000 is standard setting.
Pedal swells drawbars to 787999990.
Basic joe bob stuff.


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## kunst91 (Dec 2, 2015)

It's not a laptop, but the road dawg looks pretty cool

http://www.heavydigitalaudio.com/products/


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## chimuelo (Dec 2, 2015)

Got tired of lugging 4U DAWg's around years ago.
But thier Road DAWg is what I make for a 1U.
Only reason for a 4U is a graphics card or a big ass fan.
But their using the low watt S CPU so maybe thats for Overclocking.


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## chimuelo (Dec 2, 2015)

Check out www.bsicomputers.com
Look at the triple screen Lunchbox computer.
Or thier single screen PCs.
Z170 X99 Z97 and even Supermicro boards w/ Xeons.

I think those are sweet portable DAWgs.


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## rgames (Dec 3, 2015)

I'm on the road for a year and have been using a mobile setup for a couple months now. It's do-able these days, even for full orchestral setups. Mine is built around a HP zBook 17 g2. Here are a few comments (assuming you go the PC laptop route, I'm not sure about Macs):

- For best portability and performance, get a 17". There are two reasons: first, you can cram 3.5+ TB of storage into most of the 17" laptops, so no need to plug-in external drives to house all your libraries. A 15" laptop with external drives is more of a pain than a 17" laptop with no external drives. Second, larger laptops run cooler, so you'll get better performance on heavy projects (laptops throttle CPU speed to keep them cool, the larger the laptop, the more cooling and the harder you can push it before getting throttled).

- Get one of the laptops with a 512 GB PCIe SSD main drive. Set 256 GB for the OS and the other 256 GB for your hungriest libraries. Even on laptops those PCIe drives make a big difference (note, though, that the first one I had caused DPC latency spikes - took HP forever to fix it).

- Expect to run at 6 - 8 ms latency with a full orchestral template running on VE Pro (I use a mix of VSL, PLAY and Kontakt libraries). Small projects can do half of that. I've used both a Steinberg UR12 and an RME Fireface 802 over USB and the performance was about the same.

- Of course, pack it with 32 GB RAM. You can still run a full template so long as you drop the pre-load buffers and run everything from SSDs. SSD speeds have increased to the point where you don't need nearly as much RAM as you used to.

I've long been a naysayer for laptops used for orchestral mock-ups but nowadays it's definitely do-able.

rgames


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## chimuelo (Dec 5, 2015)

Intel is actually making some incredible BGAs for notebooks in 2016.
Ive been researching and even purchased a large cache CPU.
Intel wont release a CPU with large L4 Cache again unless its a BGA laptop design.
3.6ghz w/ 64mb L4 cache is what Taiwanese blogs have posted.
Thats a 45watt CPU.
Cache and extra cores are the future for a while but laptops seem to be getting the very best parts IMHO.

Thanks for the info on HP RGames.
I was unaware they had such good support.
Do you know what they did to fix the DPC?
ASRock Z170 has a fix coming for thier mobos and its in the BIOS.
I always thought it was a hardware issue.


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