# Pre vs Post fader for Reverb



## Juulu (Jan 24, 2022)

Guess the title is pretty self-explanatory. I'm still trying to learn how to mix my tracks to make them sound better (I don't have any mixing friends :( ...), so I was just curious, what would the more experienced people on this forum recommend. If I understand correctly using reverb pre fader simply provides the VI's with space, but post fader allows you to put the same instruments further back in said space? I'm more so interested in what the best practice is so I can make my music sound more professional.


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## PaulieDC (Jan 24, 2022)

Good question. Actually it's a different thing. First, and you may know this, but you want to set up your reverb as a Send, not an insert on the channel, unless you have a specific type of special effect reverb you want, and even then I'll set up several Reverb sends anyway. That means adding an FX channel to the mix with the reverb on that. Then you go to your channels that you want reverb on (hang with me, Pre and Post explanation coming!), and you assign the Channel Send to the Reverb channel you want. The amount that you send to the reverb controls the "up close" or "set back" sound, and to really make that happen you need a longer reverb in the range of 2.8-3.8 for reverb time. OK, now we get to pre and post fader part. If you run your channel's aux send pre fader , when you bring the channel down, be it violin or voice or whatever, the signal getting sent to the reverb will also come down with it. That changes how much reverb you hear, thus changing where the instrument is set in the mix. If you set the channel send as post fader, when you change the channel volume with the fader it won't change how much gets sent to the reverb which is good, it keeps the instruments placed with reverb and you simply control volume on the channel.

I think/hope I explained that right.


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## PaulieDC (Jan 24, 2022)

Also, for a bit better sound, on your Reverb FX channel after the reverb, pop an EQ on there and set a high-pass (lox cut) filter at about 600 Hz and a low-pass (High cut) filter at about 8 KHz, which will cut the mud and sizzle and make your reverb a little more intelligible. Your reverb might have a built in EQ like Waves H-Reverb does, then you could do it there.


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## Trash Panda (Jan 24, 2022)

If you run your send to a reverb track pre-fader, the instrument fader essentially becomes your wet/dry control as the reverb side of the instrument signal will remain constant as you turn down the instrument volume faster. 

If you run it post fader, the reverb signal gets quieter as you turn down the instrument volume.


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## Juulu (Jan 24, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> Also, for a bit better sound, on your Reverb FX channel after the reverb, pop an EQ on there and set a high-pass (lox cut) filter at about 600 Hz and a low-pass (High cut) filter at about 8 KHz, which will cut the mud and sizzle and make your reverb a little more intelligible. Your reverb might have a built in EQ like Waves H-Reverb does, then you could do it there.


Ok I think I have a better understanding of it now. I actually have been using eq filters on my reverb for a little while (seventh heaven has built in hi-pass, low-pass). I just wanted to get some more insight cause I've seen many composers do it different ways and was wondering if there was an "industry" way of doing things.


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## Trash Panda (Jan 24, 2022)

There is no one standard way of doing it. Usually reverbs as sends are to conserve CPU when running a lot of tracks into the same “space.”

@Joël Dollié likes to use SP2016 as an insert to make a sample sound like it’s in a bigger space or push it back in the mix. 

@Beat Kaufmann sets up send reverbs with only early reflections at different depths and runs them into a single reverb that is only late reflections. 

@Cory Pelizzari has videos where he runs reverbs as inserts on each track. 

Some people split the articulations between longs and shorts. Some use really wet libraries at AIR or Teldex and add no reverb at all. 

So the question isn’t really what way is best, more what sounds good to you.


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## Juulu (Jan 24, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> There is no one standard way of doing it. Usually reverbs as sends are to conserve CPU when running a lot of tracks into the same “space.”
> 
> @Joël Dollié likes to use SP2016 as an insert to make a sample sound like it’s in a bigger space or push it back in the mix.
> 
> ...


I figured this was the case. I guess I just need to start trusting my ears more and discerning what sounds good to me and just going from there. Thank you.


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## Trash Panda (Jan 24, 2022)

The most helpful thing I learned about reverb is that unless you’re using it as an emphasis effect, if you can “hear” the reverb, it’s too loud in your mix. 

Start with the fader or mic knob at minimum, slowly turn it up until you can hear the reverberation and turn it back down a few dB. Ideally, you won’t notice it when it’s present, but you will definitely notice its absence when you toggle it on and off.


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## SamMarksMusic (Feb 21, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> The most helpful thing I learned about reverb is that unless you’re using it as an emphasis effect, if you can “hear” the reverb, it’s too loud in your mix.
> 
> Start with the fader or mic knob at minimum, slowly turn it up until you can hear the reverberation and turn it back down a few dB. Ideally, you won’t notice it when it’s present, but you will definitely notice its absence when you toggle it on and off.


Such great advice!


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## gsilbers (Feb 21, 2022)

Juulu said:


> Guess the title is pretty self-explanatory. I'm still trying to learn how to mix my tracks to make them sound better (I don't have any mixing friends :( ...), so I was just curious, what would the more experienced people on this forum recommend. If I understand correctly using reverb pre fader simply provides the VI's with space, but post fader allows you to put the same instruments further back in said space? I'm more so interested in what the best practice is so I can make my music sound more professional.




What you are describing sounds like an older technique composers used to use a lot when these sample libraries didnt have so many mic positions..

ITs called something like Altiverb early reflection todd AO trick or something
here is one example of how composers used to set it up back in 2008






TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-)


TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) Let's take a Dry (important) Bass Clarinet. 1) Set up a Altiverb Bus with the 8m Todd AO 2) In Altiverb turn off Direct, Placement and Tail...ONLY Leave on the EarlReflections....mix is 100% WET. 3)Send dry Bass Clarinet to...




vi-control.net












Gearspace.com - View Single Post - How do you personally set up Reverb with orchestral music?


Post 8984982 -Forum for professional and amateur recording engineers to share techniques and advice.



gearspace.com





The idea is based on your premise, of having a set of reverbs to get a "close" room sound to give dry samples a sense of being in a room and then the tail would be sort of the glue to make them all fit in the same space.

Once sample libraries started including spot mics, and room mics, and decaa tree mics, and mic inside a bottle next to the assistant lol and so on.. then these early reflection tehcniques stopped being that usefull. Also Vienna MIR and other similar concepts popped up. And this technique is used on certain ocations.

Now its more of a balancing the libraries approach to setting up the samples and adding fx to each one to match other libraries or have a cohesive sound... and for reverb its a mix of how composers set it up... by having either a general reverb for all, or by sections for stems, or individually per channel or a mix of all of those.. if your computer can handle.

I think there was a guy here at vi who was selling preset logic and cubase mixed template with cinesample libraries and cinematic studio series... forgot exactly but it also included reverb etc. not sure if that would be helpful or just seeing a few tutorials online to match what you want to achieve


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## gsilbers (Feb 21, 2022)

And here is alan meyerson using that reverb that trash panda mentioned above



the whole thing is great but here is the putting things in the back technique used sometimes only


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