# Midi orchestration book? (Especially WoodWinds)



## Vegeta (Oct 27, 2017)

Hi.

I was reading Adlers book, while I understood few things about strings and brass, and already knew alone some thigns about them, I have no idea how to arrange or use woodwinds.

As everyone brags this book I read it.
After readding it, I came here to ask a question like:"Is there a book about midi orchestration?"

Adler goes like:"The wind choir with or without horns was not widely used in homophonic passages until the nineteenth century. But from that time on we find many examples of purely homophonic writing, as brief as four measures to as long as entire passages..."

I have few barriers between me and havign a wish to read this actually.
1. English words used, hardly can even an native english speaker understand clearly.
2. I don't know notation, and book is 90% examples, examples, examples.
3. It does not teach how to arrange, but how someone in history arranged.

Paul Gilreath book is: Violins are higher than violas, you need a daw to make orchestral music, and maybe few libraries. How cool, I did not knew this without a book.

Seriously is there a book that actually teaches midi orchestration, and it would be great if you give me some recommendations.
I read nowhere thing like:
1. "Use bass on important notes when you're using it as staccato or spiccato articulation, and maybe add more notes to get flowing rhythm onto cellos."
2. "The great way of making violins arpeggio is...."
3. "If you put your melody on picolo and double or layer it with clarinet, best is to use bass on that instrument, create arpeggio with that one"
4. "If you feel that your woodwinds section arrangment is empty here are the things you could use to fill up the harmony..."

Where are those things, where is the real orchestration book?
Does it exist?

Thanks in advance.


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## JohnG (Oct 27, 2017)

Vegeta said:


> I don't know notation



You need to learn notation if you want to progress in this area. There is no substitute; it would just take too long to try to learn and retain it all by ear.



Vegeta said:


> It does not teach how to arrange, but how someone in history arranged



Fair enough, but that's still helpful if you want to achieve orchestral effects that are successful -- effects that work every time. You don't have to write like John Williams in order for them to work; James Newton Howard and all the guys use those voicings all the time.

There are contemporary arranging books, and you can always look at Ligeti scores or Penderecki if you want to look at more avant garde material -- but even that is decades old by now.


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## Vegeta (Oct 27, 2017)

JohnG said:


> There are contemporary arranging books, and you can always look at Ligeti scores or Penderecki if you want to look at more avant garde material -- but even that is decades old by now.



Thanks for your answer, sir.

Mind, if I ask you how one person learns and get the ideas to create track like your "Captain Adventure", every few seconds you have new instruments taking up the main melody, what is amazing, and all those slides effects.

Is that hard to create. As for now I am able to get something like this only: https://clyp.it/bqibewwn


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## JohnG (Oct 27, 2017)

Vegeta said:


> how one person learns



Hi Vegeta -- Most of the music on my website, including Captain Adventure, is played by a full orchestra, though of course many of the tracks have synthesizers in them as well. I may have misunderstood, but it seemed as though you were asking how to make music like that with samples alone. Apologies if I didn't follow you.

Like others I learned -- slowly and imperfectly -- by focusing on composers I admire (which are many) and trying to get scores. You don't have to study every note in a score to learn a lot. If you get one or two (or more) of the John Williams study scores, and analyse four bars here and there, the parts you like, you can learn a lot that way. Be aware that some instruments (clarinets, trumpets, French Horns, and so on) are transposing instruments. There are also a few scores here and there by Danny Elfman, Hans Zimmer, and others.

Naturally, the cheapest way to study scores of the masters is to go to a library. Wagner, Stravinsky, Richard Strauss, Ravel, Debussy -- a lot of orchestral film composition borrows instrumentation and orchestration ideas from them.

Actually, I bet you could learn to compose with Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" score alone.

I also learned from Adler, but I relied heavily on the audio tracks; without the audio tracks that accompany his book you won't learn much.

If you have taken lessons on any instrument (voice included), keep practicing and reading new pieces. Without being able to read notation, learning to write for orchestra will be a slow process. If you don't read music, you can still be great, but it's harder and, for most non-geniuses, takes a lot longer. Besides, playing music others wrote puts new ideas in your head and fingers, and you can twist them the way you like.


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## Amadeus (Oct 28, 2017)

Vegeta said:


> Hi.
> 
> I was reading Adlers book, while I understood few things about strings and brass, and already knew alone some thigns about them, I have no idea how to arrange or use woodwinds.
> 
> ...



Hi Vegeta,

I can only second what JohnG said and I can definitely understand your problems as I am finding myself in quite a similar situation. I am on my way through the Adler book as well and well, it is not easy to not only understand once but to actually take something with you that you can relate and use in your own compositions.

Something that has helped me a lot (you probably read that before here on VI contol) is to take a piece of music that you like (and you don't necessarily need the score for that) and create a MIDI mockup that sounds as similar as possible. It does not even have to be the whole piece but just a couple of bars that you find most interesting. Just my two cents.
But again, if you are serious about orchestration the Adler book is most likely the way to go.

To point you towards something that is a little more "practical" in terms of MIDI orchestration I really enjoyed some of the tutorials on envatotuts+, such as this one: https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/a-guide-to-producing-an-epic-orchestral-track--audio-13389.

As a fun fact, this tutorial is actually from George Strezov, the founder of Strezov Sampling. There are more tutorials like that for very different aspects and I found them really interesting.

Good luck! 

Best,
Amadeus


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## ed buller (Oct 28, 2017)

Amadeus said:


> Hi Vegeta,
> Something that has helped me a lot (you probably read that before here on VI contol) is to take a piece of music that you like (and you don't necessarily need the score for that) and create a MIDI mockup that sounds as similar as possible. It does not even have to be the whole piece but just a couple of bars that you find most interesting. Just my two cents.
> Amadeus



an extremely good suggestion . There are better orchestration books than Adler. I'm away from home but will list them when I get back. If you can afford it I'd do some lessons. Leon Willet is ( http://www.leonwillett.com/leonwillett.com/Welcome.html )excellent as is Norman Ludwin (https://www.musicnewapproach.com/lessons)
. I have studied with both and learned loads. Basically it's all technique. tips and tricks ...different combinations for different flavours . But your going to HAVE to learn to read music...even basically. Then study :

Holst The Planets
Stravinsky The rite Of Spring
Ravel Daphnes and Chloe
Debussy L'apres midi du faun

just for starters :


There's loads of great blogs too.

check out https://orchestrasounds.com

currently on woodwinds !....but there is so much on this fantastic website. In the first few examples he shows the role of the individual instruments playing the line in solo. Texbook examples of throwing a melody around one choir ! ( woodwinds )

The Holst example is interesting too as it shows the rising Hexatonic collection passed around the various instruments . These notes are the DNA of the whole piece !!

best

e


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## leon chevalier (Oct 28, 2017)

ed buller said:


> check out https://orchestrasounds.com


Fantastic blog ! Thanks for sharing !


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