# How do I come up with unique chord progressions like this guy on the regular?



## dannydawiz (Feb 17, 2018)

I'm getting really bored of generic diatonic chord progressions. I can come up with stuff that sounds "outside" every now and then but it's usually by accident and it usually just sounds bad.

THIS guy on the other hand can poop out these insane chord progressions that I've never heard in my life like it's just natural. I just don't understand it. How can I come up with chords like this?

Notable timestamps...
24:21
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## SimonCharlesHanna (Feb 17, 2018)

If you master voice leading & counterpoint you can make any two chords progress naturally.



Within reason


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## dannydawiz (Feb 17, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> If you master voice leading & counterpoint you can make any two chords progress naturally.
> 
> 
> 
> Within reason



show me sensei :(


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Feb 17, 2018)

K hmm 1 sec.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Feb 17, 2018)

There's a guy on youtube who's great for this but I can't recall the name. Ill do some digging and see if I can look it up. In the meantime I would get learnin


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## dannydawiz (Feb 17, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> There's a guy on youtube who's great for this but I can't recall the name. Ill do some digging and see if I can look it up. In the meantime I would get learnin



Already transcribing the chords and trying to dissect things but not really making sense from a theoretical perspective other than “modal interchange” :/


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## DocMidi657 (Feb 17, 2018)

dannydawiz said:


> I'm getting really bored of generic diatonic chord progressions. I can come up with stuff that sounds "outside" every now and then but it's usually by accident and it usually just sounds bad.
> 
> THIS guy on the other hand can poop out these insane chord progressions that I've never heard in my life like it's just natural. I just don't understand it. How can I come up with chords like this?
> 
> ...



Kenny Werner has an excellent masterclass. One of the topics he explains very well is how to move from ANY chord to ANY chord. Watch the video on this page at 8:35. http://jazzheaven.com/improvisation-lessons/kenny-werner-effortless-mastery-melody-harmony-rhythm/ He will randomly (and I mean randomly like pulling notes out of a hat) choose 4 notes as bass notes and randomly assign different chord qualities to each bass note and then plays them voice leading one chord to the next. I think watching his class may really help you!  Knowing the components of many different chords and knowing how to voice chords on the piano and then voice leading from one chord to the next chord is what is being done to go from any chord to any chord. He clearly proves in this genre you can make any chord going to any chord sound really good... if you know what you are doing


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## Farkle (Feb 17, 2018)

dannydawiz said:


> I'm getting really bored of generic diatonic chord progressions. I can come up with stuff that sounds "outside" every now and then but it's usually by accident and it usually just sounds bad.
> 
> THIS guy on the other hand can poop out these insane chord progressions that I've never heard in my life like it's just natural. I just don't understand it. How can I come up with chords like this?
> 
> ...




For me, EIS was how I moved away from "generic" chord progressions, and into more linear motion that created cool "outside" harmonies and moments.


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## dannydawiz (Feb 17, 2018)

Farkle said:


> For me, EIS was how I moved away from "generic" chord progressions, and into more linear motion that created cool "outside" harmonies and moments.



This honestly interests me so much but unfortunately I lack the funds. :(


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## CT (Feb 17, 2018)

Play around at the piano, a lot. Give your brain, and fingers, permission to roam.


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## chillbot (Feb 17, 2018)

Farkle said:


> For me, EIS was how I got brainwashed. The kool-aid was so tasty, man.


Dig it.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Feb 17, 2018)

1. Learn the basics of voice leading and counterpoint
2. Choose 4 random bass notes
3. assign 4 random chord types to each bass note
4. Create a smooth progression using everything you've learnt in step 1


After you've done that, read further about substitutions, borrowed chords, secondary dominants and other harmonic techniques.

Tabel+Acorduri+Bun.jpg


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## Replicant (Feb 17, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> If you master voice leading & counterpoint you can make any two chords progress naturally.
> 
> 
> 
> Within reason



This.

I don't really think about "chord progressions" anymore. Just "harmony".

Which opens up your options dramatically; you can harmonize the same melody over and over in an endless number of ways.


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## jmvideo (Feb 17, 2018)

"Poop out" is an accurate term here. This is a perfect example of music that's technically great, but impossible to listen to.


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## MaxOctane (Feb 17, 2018)

jmvideo said:


> "Poop out" is an accurate term here. This is a perfect example of music that's technically great, but impossible to listen to.



This is common -- virtuosos that are difficult to listen to. Their comprehension and synthesis of harmony and technique is at a level so far advanced, that my primitive brain does not recognize it as "music." Steve Vai is a classic example for me. Damn he's talented, but I can't take more than 3 seconds of his stuff without my head exploding.


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## Replicant (Feb 17, 2018)

jmvideo said:


> "Poop out" is an accurate term here. This is a perfect example of music that's technically great, but impossible to listen to.





MaxOctane said:


> This is common -- virtuosos that are difficult to listen to. Their comprehension and synthesis of harmony and technique is at a level so far advanced, that my primitive brain does not recognize it as "music." Steve Vai is a classic example for me. Damn he's talented, but I can't take more than 3 seconds of his stuff without my head exploding.



I can't stomach about 90% of "progressive" (even though it has a completely stagnate sound) rock and metal for this very reason — most of it is just technical wankery that goes on for like 7 minutes or more.


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## dannydawiz (Feb 17, 2018)

jmvideo said:


> "Poop out" is an accurate term here. This is a perfect example of music that's technically great, but impossible to listen to.



Technicality isn't the point. The chords, melodies & interesting rhythms are there.



MaxOctane said:


> This is common -- virtuosos that are difficult to listen to. Their comprehension and synthesis of harmony and technique is at a level so far advanced, that my primitive brain does not recognize it as "music." Steve Vai is a classic example for me. Damn he's talented, but I can't take more than 3 seconds of his stuff without my head exploding.



Steve Vai used to be a personal idol of mine as a teenager. His stuff can be out there and a bit esoteric at times but lets just say there's a reason why he's sold millions of records. Even I don't listen to much of his music nowadays.



Replicant said:


> I can't stomach about 90% of "progressive" (even though it has a completely stagnate sound) rock and metal for this very reason — most of it is just technical wankery that goes on for like 7 minutes or more.



Then there's the other 10% that's actually really good because of the composition.


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## Farkle (Feb 18, 2018)

dannydawiz said:


> This honestly interests me so much but unfortunately I lack the funds. :(



Understood... EIS is definitely a financial and time commitment. And it's one of many ways to gain that knowledge. For me, that was the key... but there are many other ways to learn. One cheap and effective way is to study and transcribe music that you love... jazz fusion, heavy metal, 20th century classical music (Ravel, Stravinsky), etc. You'll begin to build a vocabulary of licks, etc. And, it's FREE!


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## anp27 (Feb 18, 2018)

dannydawiz said:


> THIS guy on the other hand can poop out these insane chord progressions that I've never heard in my life like it's just natural.



No offence to anyone, but that music sounds like if you took a Pat Metheny album and replaced Antonio Sanchez's wonderful drumming with programmed electronic drums.


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## re-peat (Feb 18, 2018)

Forgive me, but you don’t need to know anything about any counterpoint or voice leading to do what Owane is doing on that very aptly titled album. The trick is to simply forget everything about diatonic relationships and conventional progressions altogether, ignore these things (and all the theory behind them) even exist, and wake up your inner child. Not the childish one, but the curious, naïve, innocent and creative one. The one that jumps from Dm2 to F#m2 and likes how that sounds. The one that slides from Bbmaj7 into E7 and then to Cm6 and thinks it’s wonderful. Which it is. The one that harmonizes every single note of a tune as if that note were the second step of the scale. The one that puts a B bassnote underneath an alternating Ebm7-Fmb5 … The one who doesn’t give a damn whether his/her chord progressions follow any rules or not.

You have to shed off your education, your preconditioned diatonical thinking, your instilled inclination to follow an Am with a Cmaj or an Fmaj — maybe try some difficult to describe combination of notes instead. Surprise yourself. Stack a few fourths and something that ‘doesn’t fit’, omit 3rds, expand the major scale with additional notes like the flatted sixth, or transpose the ‘correct’ root bassnote two steps upwards … hundreds, nay, thousands of things you can experiment with. Just be bold and courageous and don’t be afraid of mistakes or failure, or what anyone else might say. And if failure is what you end up with at first, start again. And have fun.

And then apply that same boldness to the sounds you’re using and the way you mix your music.

The biggest trap that awaits you if you go down this path, is self-consciousness. If you can avoid that — which isn’t easy — you have indescribably joyful and rewarding hours of music-making to look forward to.

_


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## DervishCapkiner (Feb 18, 2018)

If I may add my 5 cents, just my opinion..

Practice the following
1.round the circle of 4ths/5ths both ways.
2.up and down Chromatically
3. Up and down in whole steps
4.up and down in minor thirds
( Use one of these first but eventually all 4)

-----------------
1:Learn the A and B form (shells) for the major and minor chords. A is root in left (3rd and 7th in right) . B is root in left ( 7th and 3rd in right).
2. Learn the very similar dominant chord shape - root in left with a tritone in the right hand on the 3rd and b7 or b7 and 3rd.

you can also add a fifth in the LH if you wish.

-SO FAR YOU HAVE LEARNED ALL THE BASIC SHAPES FOR THE 7TH CHORDS NOT IN STACKED POSITION.

---------------------------
Stage 2 a month or two later......

1. Add another note in the RH which will either be a 9th or 13th using one or more above steps.
2. Practice moving a minor to dominant to major in a 2-5-1 pattern in one or more above steps..you get the idea.
3. Begin learning your half-dim and diminished shape in RH.
4.then work on your minor 2-5-1s ( half dim,one of the coloured dominant chords, then minor) there are many lessons on the on YouTube.

If you pay particular attention to the 4 main types of coloured dominant chord, you will have 4 very useful passing sounds which also sound interesting and colourful to land ON the beat with also.
( Just for reference they are: 1:alt dominant.2: b9 dominant. 3: Lydian dominant and 4 : whole tone dominant.)

Then and this is very important step....join an amateur big band who are willing to put up with you for a year till you learn your shit.

Failing this, though it really is the best way to learn these chords, start your own jazz group....though that never materialised for me because people always let you down unless it's something you pay for or you get very lucky. UmlesUof course youre pro and getting paid but that's different anyway.

This is how I learned the piano at around 31 years old ( more or less) and eventually I began learning to put the 3 note voicing in my LH. Now at 36 learning to improvise after spending long time learning to use samples/orchestrate blah blah blah.

It worked for me just using this shape and stacked 3rds for a while until evetuaeven you begin to explore drop two voicings, stacked 4ths and stacked 5th voicings and then your own interesting combinations...

I know that's a big brain fart but really it's also a year or two in the same direction a lot of jazz pianist begin learning voicings.

Hope this helps, Dervish.


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## dannydawiz (Feb 18, 2018)

anp27 said:


> No offence to anyone, but that music sounds like if you took a Pat Metheny album and replaced Antonio Sanchez's wonderful drumming with programmed electronic drums.



Except the drums were recorded acoustically at a studio 





re-peat said:


> Forgive me, but you don’t need to know anything about any counterpoint or voice leading to do what Owane is doing on that very aptly titled album. The trick is to simply forget everything about diatonic relationships and conventional progressions altogether, ignore these things (and all the theory behind them) even exist, and wake up your inner child. Not the childish one, but the curious, naïve, innocent and creative one. The one that jumps from Dm2 to F#m2 and likes how that sounds. The one that slides from Bbmaj7 into E7 and then to Cm6 and thinks it’s wonderful. Which it is. The one that harmonizes every single note of a tune as if that note were the second step of the scale. The one that puts a B bassnote underneath an alternating Ebm7-Fmb5 … The one who doesn’t give a damn whether his/her chord progressions follow any rules or not.
> 
> You have to shed off your education, your preconditioned diatonical thinking, your instilled inclination to follow an Am with a Cmaj or an Fmaj — maybe try some difficult to describe combination of notes instead. Surprise yourself. Stack a few fourths and something that ‘doesn’t fit’, omit 3rds, expand the major scale with additional notes like the flatted sixth, or transpose the ‘correct’ root bassnote two steps upwards … hundreds, nay, thousands of things you can experiment with. Just be bold and courageous and don’t be afraid of mistakes or failure, or what anyone else might say. And if failure is what you end up with at first, start again. And have fun.
> 
> ...



This only speaks to me so much. Thank you. <3


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## anp27 (Feb 18, 2018)

dannydawiz said:


> Except the drums were recorded acoustically at a studio



Which makes this a lot worse..


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Feb 18, 2018)

re-peat said:


> Forgive me, but you don’t need to know anything about any counterpoint or voice leading to do what Owane is doing on that very aptly titled album. The trick is to simply forget everything about diatonic relationships and conventional progressions altogether, ignore these things (and all the theory behind them) even exist, and wake up your inner child. Not the childish one, but the curious, naïve, innocent and creative one. The one that jumps from Dm2 to F#m2 and likes how that sounds. The one that slides from Bbmaj7 into E7 and then to Cm6 and thinks it’s wonderful. Which it is. The one that harmonizes every single note of a tune as if that note were the second step of the scale. The one that puts a B bassnote underneath an alternating Ebm7-Fmb5 … The one who doesn’t give a damn whether his/her chord progressions follow any rules or not.
> 
> You have to shed off your education, your preconditioned diatonical thinking, your instilled inclination to follow an Am with a Cmaj or an Fmaj — maybe try some difficult to describe combination of notes instead. Surprise yourself. Stack a few fourths and something that ‘doesn’t fit’, omit 3rds, expand the major scale with additional notes like the flatted sixth, or transpose the ‘correct’ root bassnote two steps upwards … hundreds, nay, thousands of things you can experiment with. Just be bold and courageous and don’t be afraid of mistakes or failure, or what anyone else might say. And if failure is what you end up with at first, start again. And have fun.
> 
> ...


Ill disagree here. It's all well and good to say, do anything; be free. But that will most likely turn into gibberish and frustration if you don't understand HOW everything works. It's much easier to work out non functional harmony if you know what FUNCTIONAL harmony is first.

Im surprised you of all people would suggest that tbh.


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## Replicant (Feb 18, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Ill disagree here. It's all well and good to say, do anything; be free. But that will most likely turn into gibberish and frustration if you don't understand HOW everything works. It's much easier to work out non functional harmony if you know what FUNCTIONAL harmony is first.
> 
> Im surprised you of all people would suggest that tbh.



Yeah, gonna have to disagree along with you as well.

The more you "know" about what is that you are doing, the better.

There is nothing but value in knowing and applying the last 3 or 4 centuries worth of study of harmony. Sure, it was built around things that "sounded good" but they were condensed into "rules" so that you don't have to go reinventing the freakin' wheel.

Far too many people make the mistake of assuming that music is just a matter of art, culture and raw "talent" rather than a artistic expression applied to physics.

The only way I've ever felt I've been able to improve my own stuff is by accepting that it's not all "subjective" and you have to know the rules.

and when a rule is broken and still turns out "good", there will be another rule explaining the logic behind why it "worked".


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 21, 2018)

Notice that re-pete said "shed off your education."

In other words, it's what everyone's grandma says: learn the rules and then forget them. I didn't get the impression he was recommending that anyone skip over the first step, in fact you wouldn't even be able to understand his post if you did!


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## lsabina (Feb 21, 2018)

Go to your local college and take the music theory course sequence. What you are after is covered in chromatic harmony--probably starting out with secondary dominants, Fr/It/Gr 6th chords, etc.
No longer much to do with traditional counterpoint, but modern "line writing" is cool.


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## Darren Durann (Feb 21, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> If you master voice leading & counterpoint you can make any two chords progress naturally.
> 
> 
> 
> Within reason



It really is best to take the "consonant" road as much as possible in your early composition studies. Worry about the more risk-taking (expressive) stuff when you kick ass in the "classic" sense. It can be easiest to find your own voice by exorcising all your influences as soon as possible, and sticking par for the course (no matter how boring it might be to you) is a great way to do that. Beethoven used to copy out (in longhand) scores by Haydn and Mozart when learning, a technique I've heard condescended to by some recent instructors I've met. It worked for all those old greats. I personally tried to learn what it was like to write with economy first (Alfred Newman, Bernard's more straightforward stuff, plus the less byzantine pieces by the others mentioned).

I've met young composers who were jumping in taking on Bartok and Schoenberg...most of them ended up disillusioned. There's never a problem gaining inspiration from those masters...but sometimes it's best to hang out with Mozart, Haydn, and early Beethoven, especially in the beginning. Or whoever the people you equate with those names today.

Make the basics your bitch, then there are all KINDS of resources to help you forge ahead.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Feb 21, 2018)

Yeah - I just think it's infinitely easier to work with non-functional harmony if you have mastered voice-leading because the smoothness stops it sounding jarring (unless you want jarring) and more importantly it stops your orchestra/ensemble from sounding like a keyboard.


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## johjoh (Feb 22, 2018)

I really can appreciate the music/video you posted, however I agree with some that it is not that new.
If you're looking for more adventurous chord progressions / reharmonisations, I'ld search eg youtube for keywords like neo soul chords


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## johjoh (Feb 22, 2018)

I really can appreciate the music/video you posted, however I agree with some that it is not that new.
If you're looking for more adventurous chord progressions / reharmonisations, check these for example : 

Knower
Lady Gaga : www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkPh8oDzGtg
Nero/Skrillex - Promises : www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC3kcL37Ivs
Daft Punk : www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMfxKYEN_KQ

Jacob Collier
Michael Jackson : www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaNxq6Q4v1w

For more insight in the how2, I'd search with keywords like neo/dirty soul chords, modern transitions, extreme reharmonization …
Possibly interesting youtube channels :
Adam Neely
www.youtube.com/channel/UCnkp4xDOwqqJD7sSM3xdUiQ

Jeff Schneider
www.youtube.com/channel/UCFKJ7NEE5S76QYK696nXDfg

I think re-peat gave a really good tip : “The trick is to simply forget everything about diatonic relationships and conventional progressions altogether, ignore these things (and all the theory behind them) even exist, and wake up your inner child. “
That doesn’t mean the theory is useless, but don’t see it as a straight-jacket …

Finally, if you’re not in the mood for any theory, but looking for inspiration there are some software tools that might be of help : xferrecords CTHULHU and Chordz.
Some people have made some really interesting presets you can use with them !


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## Darren Durann (Feb 22, 2018)

Try Schoenberg and Bartok's String Quartets. For Pop there's King Crimson, Stevie Wonder...


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## ksys (Feb 22, 2018)

Try this:
*The Jazz Harmony Book*
*by David Berkman*

Simple & direct


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