# Korg Opsix & Wavestate Native!



## Sergievsky (Mar 22, 2022)

Because we can never have enough…
A great surprise as I wanted to get the keyboards but didn’t want anymore, uh, keyboards.


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## muziksculp (Mar 22, 2022)

Looking Good, and Sounds very Interesting


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## Wes Antczak (Mar 22, 2022)

$149 each intro price.

$49 each if you own the hardware.

Opsix is stated as a direct port of the hardware code. Doesn't specifically say that for the Wavestate, though a poster on KVR who owns the hardware states that it is exactly the same.

Intro pricing available for the next two weeks. Demos also available.


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## HeliaVox (Mar 23, 2022)

I have a wavestate hardware keyboard, and I just got the 2 native plug ins. It's the real deal! I love it. And the fact that it's M1 native is much appreciated, too.


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## R10k (Mar 23, 2022)

Wavestate is pretty interesting... no manual though?


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## Dietz (Mar 23, 2022)

Wes Antczak said:


> $149 each intro price.
> 
> $49 each if you own the hardware.


Does a Wavestation A/D from 1991 count as "hardware" ...?


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## khollister (Mar 23, 2022)

Bought the Wavestate plugin. In both Cubase 12 and Logic on my M1Max, it is almost unusable on many patches on a record-armed track due to CPU spikes. Playing back on a non-armed track the CPU use is negligible. So far I have tried a 128 and 256 buffer (256 is slightly better) with my Apollo X8. I am going to try the internal as well as a Babyface Pro I own to see if the driver makes any difference.

Demo first to see how it works for you. Love the sound. Curious to hear if others have similar problems?


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## EvilDragon (Mar 23, 2022)

It seems isolated to M1Max... people with regular M1 CPU run it fine apparently.


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## R10k (Mar 23, 2022)

Yeah fine on an M1 here...


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## khollister (Mar 23, 2022)

R10k said:


> Yeah fine on an M1 here...


Interesting. I also have a M1 13”MBP still on Big Sur with Logic. I installed Wavestate and tried it. Still have CPU spiking but it seems a little better than my M1Max on Monterey. Korg rep over on GS claims no problems with their M1Max. 

I’m going to experiment more when I get back home shortly.


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## R10k (Mar 23, 2022)

khollister said:


> Interesting. I also have a M1 13”MBP still on Big Sur with Logic. I installed Wavestate and tried it. Still have CPU spiking but it seems a little better than my M1Max on Monterey. Korg rep over on GS claims no problems with their M1Max.
> 
> I’m going to experiment more when I get back home shortly.


Hold on... testing time. I didn't look at what my cpu was doing. I just didn't notice any issues as I was using it.

EDIT: All fine, looking at CPU History in Activity Monitor. Where are you seeing the spikes? Are they very brief?


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## khollister (Mar 23, 2022)

Looking at the CPU performance meters in Logic or Cubase 12. Yes, the spikes are brief. I seriously doubt you would see then in Activity Monitor.

The spikes in the DAW performance meters are accompanied by clicks, pops and brief dropouts indicating they are real buffer overruns.

Happens regardless of whether I use the Apollo, internal sound or the H9000 USB (class compliant USB - no driver)


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## R10k (Mar 23, 2022)

khollister said:


> The spikes in the DAW performance meters are accompanied by clicks, pops and brief dropouts indicating they are real buffer overruns.


Those I haven't run into.


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## khollister (Mar 23, 2022)

I may experiment with the 13" M1 and install MacOS and see what happens. Probably go all the way to 12.3 (M1Max is still on 12.2.1)

Since this happens with all DAW's and all interfaces I try, it must be something hosed in CoreAudio


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## R10k (Mar 23, 2022)

Seems like it. For record I'm on 11.6.4


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## dcoscina (Mar 23, 2022)

R10k said:


> Yeah fine on an M1 here...


Same here


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## Axl (Mar 23, 2022)

I wonder if they will be included in the Korg bundle in the near future.


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## R10k (Mar 23, 2022)

Axl said:


> I wonder if they will be included in the Korg bundle in the near future.


Someone over at KVR said no, because the hardware is still around (or from memory I think that was the reason given!)


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## muziksculp (Mar 23, 2022)

Which one would you get if you had to choose one of the two (OpSix or WaveState) ? 

I'm leaning more towards WaveState, since I have other FM synths.


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## José Herring (Mar 23, 2022)

What do you guys think of Wavestate? I've downloaded the demo and though I was excited about the hardware version of it the software version seems very similar to but not as good as Pigments. 

But, I'm still testing and hoping.


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## muziksculp (Mar 23, 2022)

Now I'm leaning towards getting neither one of them. 

Nothing I heard so far produced enough GAS to purchase. Plus at $149, they aren't the most economical virtual synths, and I already have a great selection of hardware, and virtual synths. I think I will keep my wallet happy.


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## Monkberry (Mar 23, 2022)

José Herring said:


> What do you guys think of Wavestate? I've downloaded the demo and though I was excited about the hardware version of it the software version seems very similar to but not as good as Pigments.
> 
> But, I'm still testing and hoping.


I downloaded the demo of Wavestate and decided to pass. I thought it would be a great addition but was underwhelmed after demoing. The demo timed out in 20 minutes so I didn't get to explore much but I've decided to put my money into the new Native Instruments Playbox release.


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## José Herring (Mar 23, 2022)

Monkberry said:


> I downloaded the demo of Wavestate and decided to pass. I thought it would be a great addition but was underwhelmed after demoing. The demo timed out in 20 minutes so I didn't get to explore much but I've decided to put my money into the new Native Instruments Playbox release.


Yeah, I bailed on Wavestate before it timed out. It's actually a great instrument that is easy to use. The ability to arp the layers independently is very interesting. It's more of a musical instrument than I expeceted....but the sound is weak. I think that the hardware amps contribute more to the sound of the real Wavestate than I understood because the vst version sound wise didn't even compare to other VST sample based synths I have. Disappointed. 

Playbox huh? Sounds interesting.


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## Monkberry (Mar 23, 2022)

Yeah, I liked the hardware but this sounded weak to my ears.


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## khollister (Mar 23, 2022)

dcoscina said:


> Same here


so in Logic, Wavestate seems to ply OK most of the time without clicks, but the Logic performance meter shows significant CPU load, spiking to the top when you release notes. In Cubase or S1 native, it creates audible overload artifacts.

This is on my M1 after reinstalling MacOS 12.3


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## dcoscina (Mar 23, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Yeah, I bailed on Wavestate before it timed out. It's actually a great instrument that is easy to use. The ability to arp the layers independently is very interesting. It's more of a musical instrument than I expeceted....but the sound is weak. I think that the hardware amps contribute more to the sound of the real Wavestate than I understood because the vst version sound wise didn't even compare to other VST sample based synths I have. Disappointed.
> 
> Playbox huh? Sounds interesting.


Same. It's fun in an old school Rompler kinda way but sonically it doesn't compete with the big boys in VI land. $200CAD is way too steep especially when Cherry Audio is releasing gems at like $35


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## eNGee (Mar 23, 2022)

I couldn't even demo them! Installed the Software Pass and it listed only the synths I have. Uninstalled and installed again! Nothing! it is the same damn problem I had when they released Triton!! 

Korg support is shit! I wrote them several times and they ignored me! Nah! It is over with Korg now! I don't even want to buy or use anything from them anymore :(

This is what appears on my Software Pass! I'm going to delete everything! I don't want to see their name again! I purchased the upgrade to Arturia Collection 8 from my v7 for $99 and spending a good time with it instead!


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## muziksculp (Mar 23, 2022)

eNGee said:


> Korg support is shit!


Yup, another good reason not to bother with these synths from Korg.


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## nordicguy (Mar 23, 2022)

eNGee said:


> I couldn't even demo them! …


I didn’t see them at first but I had to update the Korg Software Pass to have them appear.
Anyway, if you already went for Arturia Collection 8…
Good collection from Arturia.


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## dcoscina (Mar 23, 2022)

nordicguy said:


> I didn’t see them at first but I had to update the Korg Software Pass to have them appea.
> Anyway, if you already went for Arturia Collection 8…
> Good collection from Arturia.


Yes the V collection 8 is great!


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## Wes Antczak (Mar 23, 2022)

Dietz said:


> Does a Wavestation A/D from 1991 count as "hardware" ...?


I have the original Wavestation keyboard from 1989 purchased as new and I'm guessing that doesn't count either.


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## R10k (Mar 23, 2022)

I ended up grabbing it. Once I eq’d it a bit and hit up some of the prefx I was having a good time - you can definitely get it sounding big without a lot of effort.


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## R10k (Mar 23, 2022)

khollister said:


> so in Logic, Wavestate seems to ply OK most of the time without clicks, but the Logic performance meter shows significant CPU load, spiking to the top when you release notes. In Cubase or S1 native, it creates audible overload artifacts.
> 
> This is on my M1 after reinstalling MacOS 12.3


I was thinking about upgrading to 12 so please keep us informed if you’re able to chat to Korg about it.


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## HeliaVox (Mar 24, 2022)

Wes Antczak said:


> I have the original Wavestation keyboard from 1989 purchased as new and I'm guessing that doesn't count either.


My one regret in life was selling my Wavestation. I bought it when it first came out.


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## HeliaVox (Mar 24, 2022)

I have a MacbookPro with a M1 max chip. I'm on 12.3. I don't use Logic anymore, I use Bitwig. I launched 4 instances of the wavestatenative and programmed in a 4 bar sequence and set it to loop continuously. There were no audible pops clicks or artifacts. The DSP Performance Graph did not look like the system was stressing out at all. There would be a quick spike from time to time, but Bitwig seemed to be as cool as a cucumber. Now, take that with a grain of salt, because it was a super casual test and it was by no means a real world setting.
When I opened Logic to test it, I did the same 4 bar loop over 4 tracks. My CPU meter was ok, except when I hit stop, then 1 Core would stay pegged at 100% and would gradually drop down to 75%, then back up to 100, then drop to 50% then up to 100. I waited for 45 seconds and this behavior still continued. Bitwig did not exhibit the same behavior. As I said, grain of salt. It's 4:27AM and I'm still suprised I can type.


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## R10k (Mar 24, 2022)

When people are talking about cpu meters, are they tracking each of the cores? (4 efficiency, 4 performance on a standard M1)


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## eNGee (Mar 24, 2022)

nordicguy said:


> I didn’t see them at first but I had to update the Korg Software Pass to have them appear.
> Anyway, if you already went for Arturia Collection 8…
> Good collection from Arturia.


I don't know really why I have such problem?! There is a glitch in my account as well that prevents me from upgrading! Korg doesn't want to correct it (or even answer me!).
I loved Korg in the past but because of their attitude, I lost interest in any product from them! There are good alternatives, so luckily I don't need them 

Arturia has a good products and support, so that I like to buy from them. The digital synths are amazing together with some of the analog emulations. Even the first (rather weak) synths are not bad and still usable (Modular and CS 80 for example).


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## khollister (Mar 24, 2022)

HeliaVox said:


> I have a MacbookPro with a M1 max chip. I'm on 12.3. I don't use Logic anymore, I use Bitwig. I launched 4 instances of the wavestatenative and programmed in a 4 bar sequence and set it to loop continuously. There were no audible pops clicks or artifacts. The DSP Performance Graph did not look like the system was stressing out at all. There would be a quick spike from time to time, but Bitwig seemed to be as cool as a cucumber. Now, take that with a grain of salt, because it was a super casual test and it was by no means a real world setting.
> When I opened Logic to test it, I did the same 4 bar loop over 4 tracks. My CPU meter was ok, except when I hit stop, then 1 Core would stay pegged at 100% and would gradually drop down to 75%, then back up to 100, then drop to 50% then up to 100. I waited for 45 seconds and this behavior still continued. Bitwig did not exhibit the same behavior. As I said, grain of salt. It's 4:27AM and I'm still suprised I can type.


Interesting. I also have a Bitwig license (although I don't use it often) and I tried Wavestate there just now. I agree it is much better behaved there than in Logic or Cubase. I can see an occasional spike after note release, but it causes no audible issues. The CPU repeatedly spiking after notes are released in Logic is exactly what I see as well. I don't have issues while actually sending MIDI notes - it is while at idle or during note releases the CPU goes nuts. It is very well behaved if the tracks are not record armed or monitored. I tried turning ASIO Guard off in Cubase just to see if that had an effect, but there was no change


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## R10k (Mar 24, 2022)

It's been reported and confirmed by Korg.









KVR Forum: Korg Wavestate and Opsix for Win/Mac - Page 14 - Instruments Forum


KVR Audio Forum - Korg Wavestate and Opsix for Win/Mac - Page 14 - Instruments Forum




www.kvraudio.com


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## R10k (Mar 24, 2022)

eNGee said:


> I don't know really why I have such problem?! There is a glitch in my account as well that prevents me from upgrading! Korg doesn't want to correct it (or even answer me!).
> I loved Korg in the past but because of their attitude, I lost interest in any product from them! There are good alternatives, so luckily I don't need them
> 
> Arturia has a good products and support, so that I like to buy from them. The digital synths are amazing together with some of the analog emulations. Even the first (rather weak) synths are not bad and still usable (Modular and CS 80 for example).


I'm sure they aren't ignoring you on purpose.


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## tressie5 (Mar 24, 2022)

Wavestate Native's complexity took me by surprise. Its deep levels of audio sculpting didn't surprise me, but the whole wave sequencing bits did. I wasn't aware about it till now. Wish I'd known sooner that some company had found the wherewithal to merge a synth/sampler with a Looperator on steroids. What a fun toy to play around with.


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## whinecellar (Mar 24, 2022)

As a longtime Wavestation fan (I once had 4 rack SR’s) I got the Wavestate keyboard and was gobsmacked at how good it is, and the 2.0 update really opens it up as a killer platform. I just wish it could import OG patches - big missed opportunity there.

When the software version dropped the other day, I jumped on the $49 crossgrade (after an insane amount of hoop jumping thanks to Korg unnecessarily complicating things) and was happy to hear it sounds identical. The hardware is now for sale, as I’m already surrounded by synths 

The Opsix on the other hand - holy cheesy presets, Batman - I didn’t hear one sound in there that I’d ever use. A few of the hardware demos I’ve heard on YouTube sounded interesting, but the plugin demo got deleted within 3 minutes…


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## khollister (Mar 24, 2022)

R10k said:


> It's been reported and confirmed by Korg.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, the Korg rep that posts over on GS confirmed they duplicated it on their M1Max and are investigating, so hopefully we'll get some satisfaction


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## R10k (Mar 24, 2022)

khollister said:


> Yeah, the Korg rep that posts over on GS confirmed they duplicated it on their M1Max and are investigating, so hopefully we'll get some satisfaction


For me, I'm all good. But, it's nice to see Korg getting onto this... both for the people who do have an issue, and perhaps for me if I have an issue but haven't realised it 😋


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## Sergievsky (Mar 24, 2022)

whinecellar said:


> ….
> The Opsix on the other hand - holy cheesy presets, Batman - I didn’t hear one sound in there that I’d ever use. A few of the hardware demos I’ve heard on YouTube sounded interesting, but the plugin demo got deleted within 3 minutes…


yeah, it wasn’t until I heard some third party patches that I took a serious interest in getting the keyboard. Now that it’s a quarter of the kybrd price even tho it doesn’t have keys (a plus for me), its almost irresistible. I almost wanna see first though how quickly Korg responds to these early bugs. As has been stated (& ime with the orig korg collection), they don’t exactly have a great track record. Still, from the demos I’ve heard from some programmers our there, it can sound pretty damn good.


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## Wes Antczak (Mar 24, 2022)

José Herring said:


> What do you guys think of Wavestate? I've downloaded the demo and though I was excited about the hardware version of it the software version seems very similar to but not as good as Pigments.
> 
> But, I'm still testing and hoping





HeliaVox said:


> My one regret in life was selling my Wavestation. I bought it when it first came out.


Among other things, one could say they don't make them like they used to. That thing is ultra heavy and built like a tank. I need to update my display though, which is getting rather dim. 

I should change my post regarding ultra heavy and built like a tank... my Behringer Oddysey *IS* ultra heavy and also built like a tank. Regardless of what other people may say about Behringer I will grant them that much.


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## José Herring (Mar 24, 2022)

R10k said:


> I ended up grabbing it. Once I eq’d it a bit and hit up some of the prefx I was having a good time - you can definitely get it sounding big without a lot of effort.


Would love to hear what you are doing. For me I can't get it to sound more than a whimper compared to my other similarly priced softsynths. What I really liked about it so far is that you can do arp on the layers but Reason has a PCM style synth that can do the same thing.


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## R10k (Mar 24, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Would love to hear what you are doing. For me I can't get it to sound more than a whimper compared to my other similarly priced softsynths. What I really liked about it so far is that you can do arp on the layers but Reason has a PCM style synth that can do the same thing.


Not much! I just went to the master eq and cranked the bass and midrange, and had some fun with the wave shaper in the pre fx, which nastied up some of the presets 😂 When you say whimper though, do you mean the output volume or the timbre of the sound?


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## José Herring (Mar 24, 2022)

R10k said:


> Not much! I just went to the master eq and cranked the bass and midrange, and had some fun with the wave shaper in the pre fx, which nastied up some of the presets 😂 When you say whimper though, do you mean the output volume or the timbre of the sound?


Just the body of the sounds themselves. But I never dived into programming it myself. I just went through the presets and meh.


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## R10k (Mar 24, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Just the body of the sounds themselves. But I never dived into programming it myself. I just went through the presets and meh.


I know what you mean! Hit up the eq and reverb tab, and the effects tab. What’s there makes a big difference…


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## José Herring (Mar 24, 2022)

R10k said:


> I know what you mean! Hit up the eq and reverb tab, and the effects tab. What’s there makes a big difference…


Will do. I still want to believe.


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## gsilbers (Mar 25, 2022)

oh man... i had planned to finally buy the wavestate synth this weekend. Lucky me!


Now, can someone confirm if you can load 3rd party presets made with/for the hardware? 









Korg Wavestate - "Cinematica Vol 2" 40 Performances by LFO Store


Korg Wavestate - "Cinematica Vol 2" 40 Performances Introducing: 'Cinematica' Vol.2 soundset with one of the most deep patches you heard on Korg Wavestate. ![youtube](https://youtu.be/Eo4sg_mezVw) By Nick Klimenko aka Chronos, a creator of 'Organica' for Waldorf Blofeld & 'WS Universe' for...




www.audiobombs.com


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## Dan Phillips (Mar 25, 2022)

gsilbers said:


> oh man... i had planned to finally buy the wavestate synth this weekend. Lucky me!
> 
> 
> Now, can someone confirm if you can load 3rd party presets made with/for the hardware?
> ...


Yes, presets are completely compatible between the plug-in and the hardware.


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## Dan Phillips (Mar 25, 2022)

eNGee said:


> I don't know really why I have such problem?! There is a glitch in my account as well that prevents me from upgrading! Korg doesn't want to correct it (or even answer me!).
> I loved Korg in the past but because of their attitude, I lost interest in any product from them! There are good alternatives, so luckily I don't need them


I'm sorry to hear that. Let me know how you've contacted Korg, and your Korg ID (or the name attached to the ID), and I'll look into it.


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## Dan Phillips (Mar 25, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I think that the hardware amps contribute more to the sound of the real Wavestate than I understood because the vst version sound wise didn't even compare to other VST sample based synths I have. Disappointed.


I'm curious about that, since the hardware amp and DAC are linear, and the core code and sonic results are objectively the same. Was the volume simply lower than your other sample-based synths? Genuinely wondering. Our sample playback is also very clean from an aliasing perspective, which may give a different character...


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## Dan Phillips (Mar 25, 2022)

R10k said:


> Wavestate is pretty interesting... no manual though?


Manual is in the download. Also here:


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## José Herring (Mar 25, 2022)

Dan Phillips said:


> I'm curious about that, since the hardware amp and DAC are linear, and the core code and sonic results are objectively the same. Was the volume simply lower than your other sample-based synths? Genuinely wondering. Our sample playback is also very clean from an aliasing perspective, which may give a different character...


It is super clean. I honestly think that I'm not a fan of the presets because once I started programming the synth it started to come alive a bit more. STill not all the way there for me but I'm not complete closed to the idea. I just think once Wavestate started playing on the VST level it came up against some pretty stiff competition. 

What I do like about it though is that it is an actual instrument designed for performance. 

Still trying to find a way to map the joystick to hardware. I'm sure there is a way though.


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## zvenx (Mar 25, 2022)

the joystick is currently pre-mapped to cc16 and 17, but you may already know that.
rsp


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## eNGee (Mar 25, 2022)

Dan Phillips said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. Let me know how you've contacted Korg, and your Korg ID (or the name attached to the ID), and I'll look into it.


Thank you Dan. I will PM you now


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## R10k (Mar 25, 2022)

Dan Phillips said:


> Manual is in the download. Also here:


Thanks Dan… I did eventually find it, but I appreciate the link!


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## tressie5 (Mar 25, 2022)

I solved my joystick problem by hooking up my game controller (Hycarus) via Loop Midi --->Fergo Joystick Midi. Works like a charm. The Y axis is inverted, though. I re-inverted it in Wavestation but Wavestate Native doesn't have this ability, yet. I suspect they may add this in their updates.


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## R10k (Mar 26, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> I solved my joystick problem by hooking up my game controller (Hycarus) via Loop Midi --->Fergo Joystick Midi. Works like a charm. The Y axis is inverted, though. I re-inverted it in Wavestation but Wavestate Native doesn't have this ability, yet. I suspect they may add this in their updates.


Haha now that's a smart solution!

I'm loving Wavestate Native. Only two things I wish it had - a solo button for lanes and the ability to play sounds direct from the Librarian, instead of having to set a lane to Single Multisample and work through them.


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## eNGee (Mar 26, 2022)

I might end with Wavestate if I can demo it before the discount finishes  
Dan's attitude is really impressive and I'm glad that Korg is finally taking a good care of the software support


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## Banquet (Mar 26, 2022)

Just in case anyone doesn’t realise, when the 20 min demo runs out, you can just reopen it each time for another 20 mins.

As far as I know what Wavestate does in terms of wave sequencing is totally unique and not available in any other vst (apart from Korg’s Wavestation app)


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## gsilbers (Mar 26, 2022)

Ok , I tried it out.

Boy the presets are cheese and bad. It’s all over the place trying to figure out what might work and be cool for every genre. Which is normal for most synth, even omnisphere. 

But the potential for wave state is incredible for filmscoring. 
Tonal rhythmic pulses that change samples on each step and have each transition be different is very powerful.

I don’t think I woud have figure out how to use it from the hardware alone. Even w a manual.


I wonder if it will catch on in the filmscoring crowd like zebra and Omni to make it worth while to sell presets.


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## Banquet (Mar 26, 2022)

Yeah the presets aren't doing much for me, but the potential of the wave sequencing for everything from evolving pads to generative sequencing is mind blowing. Unfortunately a lot of the demos sound a bit like a very good up-to-date Bontempi auto accompaniment. I'm not a great fan of pressing one key and getting 4 tracks, I'd rather do each track separately... but the potential is very intriguing. (particularly as you can import your own samples, although I haven't got that to work yet)

Edit: someone recommended a patch called 'Subtle Thoughts' which is indeed very good and if I thought I could make my own patches like that, with my own analog gear sampled, I'd be very interested!


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## tressie5 (Mar 26, 2022)

Um...regarding this business about "import(ing) your own samples...": I looked hither and yon for a way to accomplish just that. Short answer: It can be done but the steps and HOOPS you jump through aren't worth the hassle. Korg uses their own format, not wav or aiff or anything convenient. One guy on YT used their sample builder software and Sample Robot to do it. It probably took him about 20 minutes or so. So, yeah, no drag and drop convenience, unfortunately. Maybe in the near future.


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## Banquet (Mar 26, 2022)

Watching this video it seems like the sample builder software allows you to set up whether the sample is one shot, looped - and if looped, set the loop points... and even make multi-samples, which is actually quite nice and I wish Omnisphere had something like that (I bought Wavelab elements so I could set loop points with samples I imported into Omnisphere)

However, when I import samples and save them as in the video - when clicking 'import' in Wavestate Native, the files I created are not selectable and so can't be imported. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong or if perhaps sample import is locked out of the demo? Either way, I'm spending more time than I should be on this, so may just bow out and be good by not buying yet another VST!


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## tressie5 (Mar 26, 2022)

Yes. Just like you [Banquet] I couldn't get Wavestate Native to import the sample I'd made in Sample Builder. I guess there were my other options - import sample in Cubase sampler or TAL sampler, but still. I finally did learn how to use the vector area in Wavestate Native, though. I didn't realize I had to activate the volume switch. Nothing about that in the (incomprehensive) user manual.


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## HeliaVox (Mar 26, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> Um...regarding this business about "import(ing) your own samples...": I looked hither and yon for a way to accomplish just that. Short answer: It can be done but the steps and HOOPS you jump through aren't worth the hassle. Korg uses their own format, not wav or aiff or anything convenient. One guy on YT used their sample builder software and Sample Robot to do it. It probably took him about 20 minutes or so. So, yeah, no drag and drop convenience, unfortunately. Maybe in the near future.


Theres an app called Convert With MOSS that allows you to convert various sample formats.


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## tressie5 (Mar 27, 2022)

1. I gave the ConvertWithMoss 5.0 a looksee. No matter how I tried, it won't convert my wave files to Korg format with the excuse that it can't detect a midi note. My files (drones) do have a note (C) going through them, but perhaps because they're ambient in nature and surrounded my atonal drones, that made it hard for ConvertWithMoss to detect. 2. I gave Korg's Sample Builder another looksee and tried to use the converted multisample bank in Wavestate Native. Sure enough, Native recognized the file in its Settings but I can't play it. 3. It'd be nice if you can watch the ball circle around in Native's Vector area like you can with Rob Papen's stuff (Predator 3, Vecto). Actually, their whole vector area needs a revamp to something akin to Papen's synths. I guess I'm spoiled.


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## Wes Antczak (Mar 27, 2022)

Maybe give Chicken Systems a try.


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## tressie5 (Mar 27, 2022)

Yay! Success! (Not with Chicken Systems, though. Their Translator 7 can't create a .korgcompilebank. Nevertheless, Korg's Sample Builder does work, but I just had to learn how to access the samples. It's this: 1. Start with Init Performance. 2. In Layer A, go over to Mode and change Wave Sequence to Multisample. 3. Scroll through library folder next to that and click on User. Therein you'll find the samples from the bank you'd created. That's the good news. The bad? You can filter, effect and vector your sample to your heart's content, but alas, lanes are disabled with multisamples in the Wave Sequencer.


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## Banquet (Mar 27, 2022)

Great you figured that out! I'm not seeing anything in 'user'. The multisample I created are in my documents folder and clicking 'user' isn't giving me the option to navigate there.

But it also raises the point that I didn't really want a multisample in the first place, I just wanted to import a .wav file for use in the wave sequencer... is that supposed to be possible? The instructions (unless I missed something) seem really inadequate!


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## tressie5 (Mar 28, 2022)

I'm not sure if Korg did this for shits and giggles, but here's the thing: When you access "User" from the Layers panels or main Performance panel, you won't see your Sample Builder-created sounds. The only way to access it is through the Mode area where you change "Wave Sequence" to "Single Multisample," providing you'd first setup Wavestate to access your multisample in the Settings area. (Obviously, there are two "User" areas). I'm slowly learning that this is the nature of Wavestate - sequences/performances are different beasts than samples/multisamples and are treated/routed differently. And, no, their user manual gives no insight on this.


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## ssnowe (Mar 28, 2022)

Just installed on a Mac Studio Max and running into the pops/clicks/dropouts issue mentioned earlier in the thread when running with Logic. Not seeing anything of note in Activity Monitor. Hope it gets sorted out.


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## tressie5 (Mar 28, 2022)

A lot of my confusion with Wavestate Native is related to the nomenclature used for it. To wit: Some developers refer to Performances and/or Programs as Soundsets, Presets, Soundbanks, Patches, etc. As a literal person, I was thinking that a soundbank meant just that - actual wav or aiff or whatever audio files that can be imported into Wavestate and used to create performances and programs. I guess that's not the case and one has to make do with the onboard sounds which, for all intents and purposes, are a large amount and highly tweakable.


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## Banquet (Mar 28, 2022)

I can't even seem to set the user sample bank area... it doesn't like folders and won't accept the bank I created in Sample Builder. I'm not particularly interested in importing multisamples anyway, I want to put .wav files into the wave sequencer. This is typical Korg... do something really well and then fall down on the UI and understandability.


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## eNGee (Mar 29, 2022)

Thanks to Dan and Korg's support team I could demo both synths.
After about 15 mins I bought them! Great sound and performance on my system! Wavestate is about 10% and OPSix about 16% average. That's with Ableton Live on my Ryzen 5800x.

I think I will sleep very late tonight or early morning :D


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## Sergievsky (Mar 30, 2022)

I bought the OpSix native first since that was the keyboard I first lusted after. Too bad when you purchase these things they don't include Extra-Time-in-your-life, so we can actually explore and enjoy them!


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## Rmgatl (Apr 1, 2022)

Anyone know how to automate the joystick function in WS native? Which parameters represent joystick midi data? 

The virtual joystick works and records midi data fine, I just don't see it in the huge pile of parameter items available to automate.

Runs fine in S1 btw.


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## tressie5 (Apr 1, 2022)

Automating joystick in WS Native:
1. Load a program in each layer.
2. Click Vector Env.
3. Basic shape - Move the five balls to any corner you like to make a square. 
4. Change the timing under Seconds to, say, 2. This allows you to better hear the morphing effect.
5. Under Loop bring Repeats to 7 or so.
6. Under Vector Volume press Enable Volume. 
You can use the Loud or Smooth parameter to taste. One thing WS Native is sorely lacking are preset vector shapes like they have in Rob Papen's synths. Maybe 1.1 might introduce that.


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## Rmgatl (Apr 1, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> Automating joystick in WS Native:
> 1. Load a program in each layer.
> 2. Click Vector Env.
> 3. Basic shape - Move the five balls to any corner you like to make a square.
> ...


The joystick is a two dimensional space with an X axis and a Y axis. So I was expecting a parameter value for X and another for Y, each controllable 0-127 like any other midi data I automate in S1. I just don’t see anything that looks like X/Y on the vst parameter list.

I assume you are describing something else (no offense, not sure what)?


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## Rmgatl (Apr 1, 2022)

Or let me ask a different way: When the virtual joystick data is recorded, where is it? I guess two of the CCs are assigned to the joystick, but no luck figuring out which two.


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## Rmgatl (Apr 1, 2022)

I should really read the manual

"VectrJSX CC 16 and VectrJSY CC 17 
These are the X- and Y-axis, respectively, of the Vector Joystick (bipolar MIDI CCs #16 and 17)."

I don't see these in the parameter list, obviously missing something. I see various (I assume) unassigned CCs at the bottom of the list, CC 0-15/0-129.

I see the various vector envelop controls; probably what Tressie described. I'm just trying to get a handle on the main joystick, like the physical joystick on the hardware WS. Sorry about dumb questions.


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## R10k (Apr 1, 2022)

Rmgatl said:


> I should really read the manual
> 
> "VectrJSX CC 16 and VectrJSY CC 17
> These are the X- and Y-axis, respectively, of the Vector Joystick (bipolar MIDI CCs #16 and 17)."
> ...


I believe the joystick CCs can't be mapped at the moment. The product lead over at Korg confirmed that, but he made it sound like it was something that'd be added. So, someone correct me if I'm wrong when I say this (I haven't played with it), but the you can automate between layers using the Vector Env, but you can't modulate anything else with the joystick at this stage.


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## EvilDragon (Apr 2, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I've downloaded the demo and though I was excited about the hardware version of it the software version seems very similar to but not as good as Pigments.


Uhhh but José, they are apples and oranges. Completely different things. There are just some UI similarities in the way modulation is displayed, that's it...



José Herring said:


> I think that the hardware amps contribute more to the sound of the real Wavestate than I understood because the vst version sound wise didn't even compare to other VST sample based synths I have.


The DAC in your audio interface is not that much different than the DAC in the hardware Wavestate. They're both quite neutral and transparent (if anything, the DAC in your audio interface might be even cleaner, with lower noise and THD etc). There are no amplifiers in Wavestate, it puts out a line level signal that you need to amplify separately outside of Wavestate, before you hook it up to the speakers.

Plugin sounds virtually identical to the hardware unit when you volume match them, though. There's people who did this comparison already and the results are in. The underlying DSP code is identical.


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## EvilDragon (Apr 2, 2022)

R10k said:


> but you can't modulate anything else with the joystick at this stage.


Yes you can, you need to assign it in the mod matrix to the parameters you want to modulate...







If you guys are talking about host automating the vector joystick, nope that's not there. But you can send MIDI CC 16/17 from your piano roll and that will work, of course.


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## R10k (Apr 2, 2022)

EvilDragon said:


> Yes you can, you need to assign it in the mod matrix to the parameters you want to modulate...


Interesting. I'm sure he said it wasn't doable at this stage 🤷‍♂️ Maybe I misunderstood...


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## EvilDragon (Apr 2, 2022)

Host automating the joystick isn't possible. But you can send MIDI CCs to do it instead, as mentioned.


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## R10k (Apr 2, 2022)

EvilDragon said:


> Host automating the joystick isn't possible. But you can send MIDI CCs to do it instead, as mentioned.


What do you mean by host automating?


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## EvilDragon (Apr 2, 2022)

Whatever you do in your host to automate a parameter outside of MIDI editor. Automation lane, envelope track, different hosts call it differently.


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## R10k (Apr 2, 2022)

EvilDragon said:


> Whatever you do in your host to automate a parameter outside of MIDI editor. Automation lane, envelope track, different hosts call it differently.


Right okay, I see what you mean. I was thinking Wavestate only accepts CCs so... those other options didn't pop into my head 😂


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## R10k (Apr 2, 2022)

R10k said:


> Right okay, I see what you mean. I was thinking Wavestate only accepts CCs so... those other options didn't pop into my head 😂


Side note: Dan from Korg said the CCs aren't currently reassignable. My mistake there.


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## zvenx (Apr 2, 2022)

Some are, some aren't the joysticks currently are not.
rsp


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## zvenx (Apr 2, 2022)

One of my two favourite lesser known sound designers, has 8 banks of performances for the wavestate..... currently on sale till the end of the month.. Bought 4 yesterday (Recreation 1+2, Cinescape and the new one, Waves of Freedom) and really loving them.









Korg Wavestate - APP SOUND


Get nine sound packs. They are compatible with the Hardware and Plugin version of the KORG Wavestate. Check the „4 Pack Bundle“ below (Recreation, Recreation 2, Technoid Flow and Elysion with 256 performances in total). -> Subscribe to the newsletter: … Korg Wavestate Read More »




www.app-sound.com




rsp


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## Rmgatl (Apr 2, 2022)

EvilDragon said:


> Host automating the joystick isn't possible. But you can send MIDI CCs to do it instead, as mentioned.


Here’s what is confusing me:
One of the simplest and most basic things to do with WS is pull up a preset and record something while wiggling the physical joystick on the synth.

When I do this, recording with native WS while moving the virtual joystick, the virtual joystick has the same effect as the physical WS joystick and that effect gets recorded in my daw (studio one). However, I haven’t found the two parameters where that recorded XY data resides. 

It seems simple and has to be there somewhere, but I can’t find VctrJS (as described in the manual) on the parameter list. I won’t post on this topic again, but will appreciate hearing if anyone knows about this. Part of the issue is, unlike most VSTs, the WS native parameter list has a bazillion things.


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## José Herring (Apr 2, 2022)

EvilDragon said:


> Uhhh but José, they are apples and oranges. Completely different things. There are just some UI similarities in the way modulation is displayed, that's it...


Not really. They both can be sample based synths. Sure they are not the same but if Wavestate is going to come down and play in the virtual world then I feel it has to at least stack up to what's currently available. I have yet to get one sound out of Wavestate that I would consider good enough yet with Pigments I was able to do that 2 min after download. Maybe I think more like Pigments than I do Wavestate.


EvilDragon said:


> The DAC in your audio interface is not that much different than the DAC in the hardware Wavestate. They're both quite neutral and transparent (if anything, the DAC in your audio interface might be even cleaner, with lower noise and THD etc). There are no amplifiers in Wavestate, it puts out a line level signal that you need to amplify separately outside of Wavestate, before you hook it up to the speakers.
> 
> Plugin sounds virtually identical to the hardware unit when you volume match them, though. There's people who did this comparison already and the results are in. The underlying DSP code is identical.


That is a debatable point but since I never heard the hardware live then I can't comment. Only heard people using it and I liked the hardware well enough. That is why I was surprised at the sterile sound of the virtual version. I will wait for the side by side comparison though. My mind still wants to believe.

Bottom line. I am not diggin' the Wavestate and am bummed because I wanted to. I still love the original Wavestation and the Wavestate has some cool features but I just can't see it working for me yet. But never say never. I will keep trying. Keep hope Alive!

I wish people the best with it though. If we all liked the same things the music world would be boring.


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## Banquet (Apr 2, 2022)

I don't think Wavestate is a synth that's easy to program. In that sense Pigments (and many other VSTs) are way better. But they are totally different synths. I spent 3-4 hours with the Wavestate demo and wasn't able to create anything that I thought was any good from it. My lack of ability (and lack of documentation and online help) to import wavs of my hardware synths was the final straw. However I do think the Wavestate could potentially do amazing things in the hands of an experienced and talented sound designer and I'm still slightly miffed that it (as so much Korg gear imo) is so hard to get the best out of.


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## R10k (Apr 2, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I have yet to get one sound out of Wavestate that I would consider good enough yet with Pigments I was able to do that 2 min after download.


I'd love to hear what you consider a good Pigments patch...


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## EvilDragon (Apr 2, 2022)

José Herring said:


> but if Wavestate is going to come down and play in the virtual world then I feel it has to at least stack up to what's currently available.


I look at it the other way. What Wavestate offers with regards to sequencing different parameters in different ways, chance options and serialism-like sound design, is something to be matched by the rest of software competition. Pigments is a very, very far cry in that regard vs Wavestate.


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## José Herring (Apr 2, 2022)

R10k said:


> I'd love to hear what you consider a good Pigments patch.


A good patch for me is something that I can use in the music I like to compose. Is there any other way to judge?


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## José Herring (Apr 2, 2022)

EvilDragon said:


> I look at it the other way. What Wavestate offers with regards to sequencing different parameters in different ways, chance options and serialism-like sound design, is something to be matched by the rest of software competition. Pigments is a very, very far cry in that regard vs Wavestate.


Understood and that is the one thing that I liked about it but honestly it's nothing new to Reason users and the whole lay out kind of reminds me of some Reason synths.

I am not here really to harp on it. In the right hands I am sure many will get great use out of it. Just not me.....yet.


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## R10k (Apr 2, 2022)

José Herring said:


> A good patch for me is something that I can use in the music I like to compose. Is there any other way to judge?


Yeah, probably after something more tangible than a definition 😂


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## tressie5 (Apr 3, 2022)

So, between UVI Falcon and Wavestate Native, I think I've lost my last remaining threads of hair just from sheer frustration alone. Without a doubt, Falcon is the deepest synth I've ever used especially since there seems to be a healthy supply of scripts for it floating around out there. Wavestate, however, is another kettle of fish. Its user manual is practically useless; however, as soon as I can wrap my head fully around the machinations of the Sample lane, I'll be set.


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## R10k (Apr 3, 2022)

Yeah, the manual made the little green and red triangles sound confusing. I just figured it out on my own.


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## tressie5 (Apr 3, 2022)

Very nice. Also, I have to make a correction to something I'd written earlier. Previously, I'd said I was able to import my wav files (via the Builder) into Wavestate but couldn't use them as a Wave Sequence. I just found out I could by simply clicking on a Sample lane pad and loading it from User. Would it kill Korg to mention this tidbit in the manual? I guess it would.


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## Sergievsky (Apr 4, 2022)

So I went ahead and got Wavestate as well, even though I don't need it. All to support Korg's efforts...in the hope they will release a Modwave native as well! Now, gotta figure out how to work these fader and knob controllers I just got for these faderless & knobless synths.


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## Rmgatl (Apr 4, 2022)

Rmgatl said:


> I should really read the manual
> 
> "VectrJSX CC 16 and VectrJSY CC 17
> These are the X- and Y-axis, respectively, of the Vector Joystick (bipolar MIDI CCs #16 and 17)."
> ...


Ok to answer my own post Looks like I can control the physical joystick with cc 16&17. I don’t think there are any parameters called VectrJSX/Y (as the manual states).

Here is an odd detail: If I wiggle the virtual joystick while recording in S1, it does record the joystick effect, but I do not see the joystick midi data in cc16/17. Where is it stored? Am I just missing something? Who knows. 

WS native is going to require some patience to learn.


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## tressie5 (Apr 4, 2022)

Re: Joystick midi data in S1 - When you press Show Automation, you'll see the parameters (Midi CC 0|16, Midi CC 0|17) in the wavestate native track you've assigned to your physical controller's XY as well as their associated waveforms which you can sculpt, with numbered parameters if you wish, to your heart's content.


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## Banquet (Apr 4, 2022)

Well, in the end I raised a ticket with Korg explaining that I couldn't import wavs in the demo version. Finally they got back to me saying I should make sure I had the latest version of Sample Builder and sent me a link to the manual for it. I still couldn't do it so I asked them to just confirm this is functional with the demo and they said oh no, it isn't. So, thanks for making that so clear Korg, I won't get those 5 hours back... 

Now I know I should be able to import my own wavs I'm tempted to buy it, but the whole demo process and lack of clarity and instructions has really put me off and reminded me what Korg are like and why my Kronos is my least programmed synth.


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## tressie5 (Apr 4, 2022)

@Banquet - You're 100% right. Part of the confusion with Wavestate Native is it DOESN'T import waves, and isn't that what something called "Wavestate" should do? The fact that it took me about two days of reading manuals, scouring the internet, watching YT videos and experimenting with Sample Builder just to be able to use my own samples amounted to being a royal pain in the tookus.


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## Rmgatl (Apr 5, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> Re: Joystick midi data in S1 - When you press Show Automation, you'll see the parameters (Midi CC 0|16, Midi CC 0|17) in the wavestate native track you've assigned to your physical controller's XY as well as their associated waveforms which you can sculpt, with numbered parameters if you wish, to your heart's content.


Got that, like I said, I see how to control the joystick via cc16/17.
What I didn’t see was real time recorded virtual joystick data stored there, makes no sense. My studio controller is a Kawai MP11SE - no joystick, so I control the virtual joystick with a mouse, so maybe not having a physical joystick matters.


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## Donny Grace (Apr 5, 2022)

Purchased both of these and very pleased. Loved the sounds of both. I've got many, many other softsynths, but thought both of these brought something else to the table. Love some of the EPs in opsix. I'm still a fan of the FM sound, but opsix takes it to another level. The complex, almost sequenced, almost loop-like capabilities of wavestate lured me in. For those struggling with performance and on a PC, I suggest you download the now FREE Cakewalk by BandLab. I'm able to play both of these synths, even the complex rhythmic presets, running at 96K/24-bit and latency down to 64 samples (0.7 msec) with no issues whatsoever. This is with an i9-10900K, Win 10 Pro 64 OS, and host installed at 64-bit.


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## tressie5 (Apr 5, 2022)

Yes. Using a mouse to move a plugin's onscreen joystick will not send midi info to the plugin. You either have to go through the midi channels on your controller or, if you have a game joystick (I have a Hycarus), you can set that up as a midi controller (LoopMIDI to Fergo JoystickMIDI).


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## johnrossi (May 8, 2022)

I have been pulling what little hair I have left out trying to figure how you load third party preset libraries into the Opsix. As far as I can tell, there doesn't even seem to be a "load preset" function. Unlike any other synth manual I have ever seen, this one doesn't even mention how to deal with presets. I was looking at purchasing some of the LFO presets for the OPsix but there doesn't aopear to be any information on how to use them with the native version. Help???


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## tressie5 (May 9, 2022)

I placed 3rd party presets in the following location and they showed up in Opsix native under the User section.

Documents/KORG/opsix native/Presets/User


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## Dan Phillips (May 9, 2022)

I just helped the opsix team with a FAQ article, here:


https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/articles/6456718793625-How-can-I-import-organize-and-share-Programs-


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## johnrossi (May 26, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> I placed 3rd party presets in the following location and they showed up in Opsix native under the User section.
> 
> Documents/KORG/opsix native/Presets/User


Thank you!


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## johnrossi (May 26, 2022)

johnrossi said:


> Thank you!


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## johnrossi (May 26, 2022)

Dan Phillips said:


> I just helped the opsix team with a FAQ article, here:
> 
> 
> https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/articles/6456718793625-How-can-I-import-organize-and-share-Programs-


Thanks Dan. That was really needed from the start.


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## tbadoo (Nov 19, 2022)

Anybody knows where I can find complete Opsix MIDI CC map? I’m trying to assign it to my Arturia Keylab MK2


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