# Newbie to brass. Any suggestions to create this?



## EpicMusicGuy (Aug 18, 2021)

So I got century brass, and trying to learn how to use it (never used a brass library before)
And decided to try and redo a piece of music that I like.






View attachment xlB0fgQlSh.mp4

Doesn't exactly sound great.
And I can't seem to get anywhere close to the original sound or just something that sounds great.
I've layered sustain with staccato and fanfare shorts. Not that it really sounds like the original, but just felt like it sounded bad without that "punch". Allthough the original have a way of playing that I have no idea how to replicate.
I've tried a few different things with the dynamics, and what you see in the video was the best I could come up with, not sure if it's remotely realistic.

Any suggestions would be appreciated


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## doctoremmet (Aug 18, 2021)

You seem to use just one short articulation. Use keyswitches to switch between the short notes and sustain patches / longs for the sustained parts. Or even better, layer them. Overall you’re doing great btw, you’ll get there.


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## Trash Panda (Aug 18, 2021)

Well to start with, I'm pretty sure those are trombones and not French Horns playing that line. 

You should be able to get somewhere close by layering articulations on separate tracks or separate MIDI channels. Maybe something like a combination of fanfare shorts with soaring shorts or marcato.


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## Conor (Aug 18, 2021)

I also thought you were using only shorts at first. The sustain layer is very, very quiet.


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## EpicMusicGuy (Aug 18, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> You seem to use just one short articulation. Use keyswitches to switch between the short notes and sustain patches / longs for the sustained parts. Or even better, layer them. Overall you’re doing great btw, you’ll get there.


Thank you.
I will certainly try that.


Trash Panda said:


> Well to start with, I'm pretty sure those are trombones and not French Horns playing that line.
> 
> You should be able to get somewhere close by layering articulations on separate tracks or separate MIDI channels. Maybe something like a combination of fanfare shorts with soaring shorts or marcato.


LOL. I did try Trombones also, thought they sounded a bit to "harsh" but probably because of my own shortcomings with experience.
Soaring shorts, doh .. Hadn't even tried that, sound like the articulation I was looking for.


Conor Brace Music said:


> I also thought you were using only shorts at first. The sustain layer is very, very quiet.


Yeah you're right. I've turned it up a bit.


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## Trash Panda (Aug 18, 2021)

Trombones a3, Marc + Soaring shorts at around 96 velocity for longer notes, stacatissimo around 64-88 velocity on shorter notes. Final long note can be crescendo + staccato at around 80 velocity.


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## Conor (Aug 18, 2021)

Did a quick test since I've recently acquired Century Brass but haven't used it yet... 

1. 2 Horns Fanfare Shorts + 12 Horns Sustain _(same as the OP, just better volume balanced)_
2. 12 Horns Staccatissimo + 12 Horns Sustain _(same ensemble, so more cohesive, but less biting)_
3. 2 Horns Staccatissimo + Sustain, and 3 Trombones Staccatissimo + Sustain _(closer to the actual orchestration)_

Those trombone shorts get super blatty, so I scaled down the velocity for #3 (and still, some notes stick out...) -- otherwise it's the same MIDI data for all three.


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## Argy Ottas (Aug 18, 2021)

Marcato (layered with some staccato/issimo for the punch) will be your best friend for this type of brass!
EDIT: add some pre-recorded swells too.


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## robgb (Aug 18, 2021)

Sample Modeling brass is your friend.


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## Argy Ottas (Aug 18, 2021)

robgb said:


> Sample Modeling brass is your friend.


OP needs to learn how to orchestrate first. Then comes the sound. EVERY modern library should do the job if you first catch on how to orchestrate what you are trying to mockup.


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## José Herring (Aug 18, 2021)

I tried to give it a shot with Century Brass. Whoa! That was way harder than it should have been. 

If you like it I can tell you want I did but it took me way longer than it should have to even get it on the playing field.


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## tc9000 (Aug 18, 2021)

I just wanted to say how close you are! You got the basic stuff in the DAW - you're like 70% there! You know its not right - that's like another 10% right there. The rest is orchestration and finesse. Of course, getting the last 20% is a lot harder. I mean _crazy _hard. But that's the magic of this whole mock up thing. I say this not from a position of strength, but weakness. I'm also trying to figure out the last 20%.

I want to share a video with you that is completely unrelated to your piece XD sorry! I'm sharing this video because it has examples of the detailed knowledge that can feed into that last 20%.

This part talks about trumpets and vibrato. Fascinating level of detail here.



This part talks about fast notes and tongued vs valved playing. Again - extreme level of detail.


Anyway - sorry that these may not relate to your specific piece / question. Look out for these hyper detailed videos you can find here and there - they are golddust 🙃


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## EpicMusicGuy (Aug 18, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I tried to give it a shot with Century Brass. Whoa! That was way harder than it should have been.
> 
> If you like it I can tell you want I did but it took me way longer than it should have to even get it on the playing field.


Would love to know how you did it


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## EpicMusicGuy (Aug 18, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Trombones a3, Marc + Soaring shorts at around 96 velocity for longer notes, stacatissimo around 64-88 velocity on shorter notes. Final long note can be crescendo + staccato at around 80 velocity.





Conor Brace Music said:


> Did a quick test since I've recently acquired Century Brass but haven't used it yet...
> 
> 1. 2 Horns Fanfare Shorts + 12 Horns Sustain _(same as the OP, just better volume balanced)_
> 2. 12 Horns Staccatissimo + 12 Horns Sustain _(same ensemble, so more cohesive, but less biting)_
> ...





Argy Ottas said:


> Marcato (layered with some staccato/issimo for the punch) will be your best friend for this type of brass!
> EDIT: add some pre-recorded swells too.





Argy Ottas said:


> OP needs to learn how to orchestrate first. Then comes the sound. EVERY modern library should do the job if you first catch on how to orchestrate what you are trying to mockup.





tc9000 said:


> I just wanted to say how close you are! You got the basic stuff in the DAW - you're like 70% there! You know its not right - that's like another 10% right there. The rest is orchestration and finesse. Of course, getting the last 20% is a lot harder. I mean _crazy _hard. But that's the magic of this whole mock up thing. I say this not from a position of strength, but weakness. I'm also trying to figure out the last 20%.
> 
> I want to share a video with you that is completely unrelated to your piece XD sorry! I'm sharing this video because it has examples of the detailed knowledge that can feed into that last 20%.
> 
> ...



Thanks you all so much. 
Didn't know if anyone would respond, but really helpful community <3
I've gotten lots of stuff to dig into when I try to give it another shot later


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## EpicMusicGuy (Aug 18, 2021)

robgb said:


> Sample Modeling brass is your friend.


Thanks, but I'll try and learn this library first


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## José Herring (Aug 18, 2021)

EpicMusicGuy said:


> Would love to know how you did it


I used the 3tbone patch. Using keyswitches I went back and forth between stacc patch and the Sustain patch. On the sustains used the modwheel a lot to simulate the swells. Had to balance the stacc patches and the marc patches with the onboard mixer and with velocity on the shorts (way too loud the shorts are). 

Then I layered the solo tbone in using stacc for the long note attacks and muted the short notes on the solo patch. Mix it, little compression, reverb, ect... The it started to sound close. If I had a few more hours could make it even closer. But, don't have time for that. 

The key lies in trying to blend in the short notes with the long notes. Then the round robins on the shorts are wildly uneven so then I had to bounce a few times to get a good take.


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## Trash Panda (Aug 18, 2021)

The lower register stacatissimo notes on that trombones patch really like to jump out and smack you in the face compared to the next octave up, don’t they?


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## José Herring (Aug 18, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> The lower register stacatissimo notes on that trombones patch really like to jump out and smack you in the face compared to the next octave up, don’t they?


Yes. Which might be okay if the round robins weren't so uneven, some jump out and some lack bite at the same velocity layer which is almost impossible to overcome without reediting the patch.

I had to bounce several time to get the right take and each time it was like....


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## sostenuto (Aug 18, 2021)

For ~ $250. difference _ The New Century Brass Bundle (Ensemble & Solo) _ during current 8Dio Promo _ is _My_ Friend ! 

https://8dio.com/instrument/century-brass-bundle/ 

Net $ 111.30 with 'all' codes.


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## tc9000 (Aug 19, 2021)

I've been watching through Anne-Kathrin Dern's youtube channel, and it's full of orchestration / programming knowledge - she made me realise you can quantise your notes, and you can write notes in in the editor. Looking at the CC data for her trasks is incredibly informative. 

Here she talks about decrecsendo and phrase breaks (among other things) in longer, slower passages:


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