# Apple introduces first 8-core MacBook Pro



## mgpqa1 (May 21, 2019)

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019...re-macbook-pro-the-fastest-mac-notebook-ever/



> Starting at $1,799 and $2,399 respectively, the updated 13-inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar and 15-inch MacBook Pro are available today



For shiggles, fully-loaded...

15-inch
i9 2.4GHz 32GB RAM
Radeon Pro Vega 20
4TB SSD
...costs $6,549.00


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## TGV (May 21, 2019)

That's so ... desirable.


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## NoamL (May 21, 2019)

6.5k for 32gb ram laptop.

Oh but I must be forgetting the BUILD QUALITY


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## karelpsota (May 21, 2019)

A lot of my video and music friends have made the jump to a 100% laptop rig for the past 6 months... and it destroys their previous tower/trashcan rigs. Truly an amazing time to live in.

The price tag doesn't bother me either. That CPU alone is worth it.

(I can already hear the PC builders marching with their spears at me  )


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 21, 2019)

EDIT: 1. and 2. are not true.


Looks great, but I have three issues:

1. The price!
2. The price!
3. 32GB maximum RAM. That's below the threshold of memory not being an issue, for me anyway.


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## BezO (May 21, 2019)

I haven't crushed my 2017 2.8GHz i7 16GB RAM machine yet, but I'm pushing it.

I was considering the entry level iMac Pro, maybe stepping up to 64GB RAM just in case. Then the new iMacs were released, and I could get similar specs for cheaper. Now this for less, but with no option for more RAM, less speed but portability.

iMac Pro, 3.2GHz Intel Xeon, 32GB RAM (maybe add via aftermarket), 1TB SSD - $5,000
iMac 27in, 3.6GHz i9, 32GB RAM (maybe add via aftermarket), 1TB SSD - $3,800
MBP 15 in, 2.4GHz i9, 32GB RAM (no option to upgrade), 1 TB SSD for $3,8000

Ehh, MBP value not stacking up.

Any care to compare the Intel Xeon processor minus 0.4GHz to the i9? How much speed am I getting for $1,200?


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 21, 2019)

BezO said:


> Ehh, MBP value not stacking up.



Okay, I should have looked first.

This configuration, which has 32GB of RAM (is it user-upgradable instead?) is $3200, $2800 with 16GB.

That's not bad at all.

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/15-inch-space-gray-2.3ghz-8-core-processor-with-turbo-boost-up-to-4.8ghz-512gb?afid=p239%7C321564&cid=aos-us-aff-ir#

(I've never visited a universe where it's worth $200 for processors that are only .1 GHz faster, so I'm ignoring that.)


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## BezO (May 21, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Okay, I should have looked first.
> 
> This configuration, which has 32GB of RAM (is it user-upgradable instead?) is $3200, $2800 with 16GB.
> 
> ...


I poked around on the net, but nothing on RAM being upgradeable. I was assuming based on passed MBPs.

Ha! I didn't realize the default was 2.3GHz. I clicked the fastest by habit. Yeah, I'd save that $200 also. And I'm getting away with 512GB SSD now. I only save recent projects on my CPU. Another $400 there.

Not bad, but I'd get more value from the iMac or iMac Pro. I'm only 1.5 years into my MBP and already considering an upgrade. I don't want to revisit this again until I'm worried about my machine dying on me. But I'd be missing out on the portability, and I take full advantage of that now.

If RAM was upgradeable or 64GB was an option, this would be easier. Decisions, decisions.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 21, 2019)

Actually, 2.3GHz may be an issue. I don't know that it is, but it sounds a little on the low side - even after you take all the turbo this and that shozz into account.

Some things end up loading a single core, and I'd worry about that.

In any case, if it isn't this machine, we're very close to laptops being desktop replacements. You just hook up big monitors and drives, and Bob's your uncle.


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## whinecellar (May 21, 2019)

I’m on my way out the door at the moment so just inserting a placeholder for now, but I definitely have some thoughts having just upgraded to a top-spec MB Pro about a month ago. Quick summary: stunning performance that blows away all but the most hotrodded desktop Macs, and the 32 GB RAM limit doesn’t bother me like I thought it would (especially since I have a big VEP rig in the studio). It really is the first truly portable monster rig I’ve ever had.

It has not been entirely smooth sailing though, especially because of the new T2 chip. More later...


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## Soundhound (May 21, 2019)

The perfect portable mac for all Tesla driving composers. Niche, but on target.




mgpqa1 said:


> https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019...re-macbook-pro-the-fastest-mac-notebook-ever/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## kitekrazy (May 21, 2019)

I guess with those higher specs you would leave it plugged in most of the time.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (May 21, 2019)

I still cringe at the sacrifice on the RAM. This should be 64GB. There are some Laptops out there from DELL and Razor etc. that offer 64GB with an i7 after all...


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## kyleogren (May 21, 2019)

Was waiting for the MacBook refresh (or minor update haha) to upgrade my mobile rig. I'm going for the 8-cores - that i9 9980HK processor is a monster


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## kyleogren (May 21, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Actually, 2.3GHz may be an issue. I don't know that it is, but it sounds a little on the low side - even after you take all the turbo this and that shozz into account.
> 
> Some things end up loading a single core, and I'd worry about that.
> 
> In any case, if it isn't this machine, we're very close to laptops being desktop replacements. You just hook up big monitors and drives, and Bob's your uncle.



Processor speed isn't determined exclusively by GHz value, check out this graph to see actual CPU performance of different processors. You'll notice the GHz is all over the map:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/laptop.html

The new i9-9980HK in the refreshed MacBooks is a beastly processor


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 21, 2019)

kyleogren said:


> Processor speed isn't determined exclusively by GHz value, check out this graph to see actual CPU performance of different processors. You'll notice the GHz is all over the map:
> 
> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/laptop.html
> 
> The new i9-9980HK in the refreshed MacBooks is a beastly processor



No it's not only GHz, but I've also been told many times over the years that you still need the cycles on individual cores.

As I said, I don't know that it's an issue with this machine, but I'd sure want to know that it isn't before taking the leap.


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## Cinebient (May 22, 2019)

I was close to buy a new macbook pro (also my main machine right now) since i need it mobile.
8 core sounds good since multi-core is the way to go for me.
I do not care much about the 2.3GHz since that says nothing really. More important is the generation of the cpu.
BUT....i would wait for some deeper reviews of thermal throttle and so.
As with the older and current macbooks the cpu almost never run at full speed for long anyway, so the 0.1 GHz more for 200 is wasted for sure.
I would be fine with just 512GB since all my samples running from extern SSD´s.
Another big BUT is the keyboard....i really want the old one i use right now on my 2013 macbook pro which never failed (and i like eating and drinking while using it) in any way yet.
Then there is the T2 chip and some other design fails which might bring problems after short time.
Mmhhhh, my configuration (15", 2.3GHz 8-core, 32GB RAM, Vega 20 GPU) would cost me €4199 here (Germany after tax). But as usual i could get the same for about €400-500 less from third party sellers after 1-3 months or so.
Not sure about Apple quality these days. I like macOS and macbooks but not quite happy with the quality and form over function these days. Jony Ive....please go....
But i could say the same over their iPads (which are super great for music production as well).
Never liked the iMacs.
I guess i wait a few months and will wait for some real-time performances and deeper reviews.


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## whinecellar (May 22, 2019)

About 2 months ago I went for the top 6-core i7 with 32 GB RAM, 2 TB SSD and Vega 20 video card. I did a lot of research on the i9 and it didn’t make a significant enough difference over the i7, and I was a little concerned about the well-known throttling issue, although that seems to have been solved for the most part.

The video card on the other hand makes a massive difference in overall feel of the machine - especially on video work. Logic feels much snappier than ever before too. The whole OS benefits from the Metal framework, and I did some side-by-side comparisons between this machine and an otherwise identical i9 with the stock video card - mine smoked it in overall graphics performance, despite being an i7. Spring for the Vega 20 if at all possible!

Downside #1: I absolutely HATE the keyboard - it feels extremely cheap, let alone for a $4500 laptop - and not at all up to Apple standards. Thankfully it just sits off to the side in the studio - I run everything from a proper Apple extended keyboard and never touch the laptop.

Downside #2: the new T2 chip and its associated Bridge OS, which is extremely crash prone if the wind blows the wrong way, and when it does, the whole machine will just shut down. That can happen by plugging in or unplugging peripherals, waking from sleep, or other random stuff. It’s extremely disconcerting, and a well-known issue that I hope Apple is working on!

Thankfully that stuff is pretty rare now that I know what usually triggers it, and the machine is a monster otherwise! Truly a stupid amount of power in a portable package...


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## Manaberry (May 22, 2019)

I'm not here to spit on Apple or its users; I just have a question: what's the point of a $6500 laptop with such low specs? (And I'm not mentioning the fact that Apple tells users to turn off multi-threading to reduce security issues with their chip)


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## BezO (May 22, 2019)

Greatly appreciate folks sharing their insight & experience.


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## Cinebient (May 22, 2019)

Manaberry said:


> I'm not here to spit on Apple or its users; I just have a question: what's the point of a $6500 laptop with such low specs? (And I'm not mentioning the fact that Apple tells users to turn off multi-threading to reduce security issues with their chip)



While i also find the Apple products a bit overpriced in general people seems to say something like this everywhere.
First the most part makes the 4TB space here.
Low specs is also relative.
Also some problems are dramatized (but they exist).
Then you pay for customer service which i must say is really good from my experience compared to other companies. Of course that can vary a lot.
At the end....Logic is my DAW. Best bang for buck so far for me.


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## Manaberry (May 22, 2019)

By low specs I was referring to the high price for such a spec. Performance is not that far from a $2000 laptop from another brand.
I do agree about the issues. It's mostly dramatized. I was pointing out the fact Apple is using unsecured components. It should be considered in the final price from my point of view.
Thanks for your reply! That's what I was looking for.


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## whinecellar (May 22, 2019)

Manaberry said:


> I'm not here to spit on Apple or its users; I just have a question: what's the point of a $6500 laptop with such low specs?...



First things first, my $.02 is that the sweet spot is more like $4500 since you can easily avoid Apple’s premium for a 4TB or even 2 TB SSD in favor of an external. That said, yeah, I won’t apologize for some of Apple’s decision making - frustrating to say the least.

As for the rest of it, it simply comes down to preference for Mac OS and/or Logic, I suppose. Personally, I happily pay the “Apple tax” to stay in the ecosystem I’ve used and loved (for the most part!) for 30 years... and/or avoid having to look at Windows all day. Again, just my $.02!


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## Manaberry (May 22, 2019)

whinecellar said:


> First things first, my $.02 is that the sweet spot is more like $4500 since you can easily avoid Apple’s premium for a 4TB or even 2 TB SSD in favor of an external. That said, yeah, I won’t apologize for some of Apple’s decision making - frustrating to say the least.
> 
> As for the rest of it, it simply comes down to preference for Mac OS and/or Logic, I suppose. Personally, I happily pay the “Apple tax” to stay in the ecosystem I’ve used and loved (for the most part!) for 30 years... and/or avoid having to look at Windows all day. Again, just my $.02!



I do agree. Everyone is free to choose what suits them the best!


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## FriFlo (May 22, 2019)

Well, as usual with Apple: the base models are not even that bad price-wise! It is the the memory and internal storage that is expensive beyond crazy. In the past that meant, I bought the base model and later upgraded memory and storage for normal prices (instead of paying 4x the amount with Apple ...). Now, with soldered SSDs and glued monitors (iMac) - with components that are hard to impossible to update yourself, you can't do that any more, so ... no Mac Book pro for me! I might consider buying a base model just for media and simple stuff like typing text or doing very basic stuff like notation. Just because I still prefer the OS. But for that purpose, the quad core would already be overkill!


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## FriFlo (May 22, 2019)

If I really wanted to get a notebook, that can really handle DAW tasks with lots of samples, this would make much more sense (sorry ... German!):
https://www.da-x.de/de/pro-audio-notebook-extreme-konfigurator.html
Even specing this Notebook to the max - well beyond the best Macbook pro (64gb of RAM, 10 Tb of internal SSD space and a 17inch screen) you barely scratch 6000€ and this PC builder is well known for proper Audio PC configurations. This would make so much more sense for a professional portable solution for composers, wouldn't it?


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 22, 2019)

Manaberry said:


> what's the point of a $6500 laptop with such low specs?



It's not $6500, it's $3200 ($2800 with 16GB; I agree that $400 extra to bring it up to 32GB is too much).

Also, with the potential caveat below (2.3 GHz), I wouldn't call an 8-core machine with 32GB of RAM low-spec. 

That doesn't mean I'm going to buy one, just that I think you're a tough crowd!



Cinebient said:


> I do not care much about the 2.3GHz since that says nothing really.



Again, I don't take that as an article of faith - based on nothing but hearsay, but hearsay from people who would know. Our application is a real-time one; to me it makes logical sense that regardless of how efficient the chip is, it still processes x number of instructions in y amount of time.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 22, 2019)

FriFlo said:


> This would make so much more sense for a professional portable solution for composers, wouldn't it?



For you, not for me.

Not if you want to work on a Mac, as for instance all Logic users do.

Macs are never going to compete € for € with a generic machine. You know going in that you're paying a premium for the design and quality - and for being able to work on a machine that's pleasant to work on! And of course for the brand; that is worth something, like it or not.

But with few exceptions in the 34 years since the first Mac, they last a very long time and hold their value.


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## NoamL (May 22, 2019)

karelpsota said:


> A lot of my video and music friends have made the jump to a 100% laptop rig for the past 6 months... and it destroys their previous tower/trashcan rigs. Truly an amazing time to live in.
> 
> The price tag doesn't bother me either. That CPU alone is worth it.
> 
> (I can already hear the PC builders marching with their spears at me  )



Appreciate your perspective as always Karel. Personally I'd rather have a networked computer with 64 or 128gb ram and then a cheap MBP at the front end to run Logic. Even more than that, I'd _*LEAP*_ at the opportunity buy an even cheaper *"Macbook Faux,"* that is, a 3rd party laptop that runs OSX with 100% stability and can customize away some of the MBP features in exchange for the same price but more RAM. Logic is really the only thing Apple has left to keep me tied to their computers.


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## robh (May 22, 2019)

whinecellar said:


> First things first, my $.02 is that the sweet spot is more like $4500 since you can easily avoid Apple’s premium for a 4TB or even 2 TB SSD in favor of an external. That said, yeah, I won’t apologize for some of Apple’s decision making - frustrating to say the least.
> 
> As for the rest of it, it simply comes down to preference for Mac OS and/or Logic, I suppose. Personally, I happily pay the “Apple tax” to stay in the ecosystem I’ve used and loved (for the most part!) for 30 years... and/or avoid having to look at Windows all day. Again, just my $.02!


So what did you do with / what happened to the 2014 MBP?

Rob


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## whinecellar (May 22, 2019)

robh said:


> So what did you do with / what happened to the 2014 MBP?
> 
> Rob



Still have it - it took the place of 2 of my older slave machines.


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## Creston (May 22, 2019)

FriFlo said:


> If I really wanted to get a notebook, that can really handle DAW tasks with lots of samples, this would make much more sense (sorry ... German!):
> https://www.da-x.de/de/pro-audio-notebook-extreme-konfigurator.html
> Even specing this Notebook to the max - well beyond the best Macbook pro (64gb of RAM, 10 Tb of internal SSD space and a 17inch screen) you barely scratch 6000€ and this PC builder is well known for proper Audio PC configurations. This would make so much more sense for a professional portable solution for composers, wouldn't it?



I'll give you one reason, I've never heard of them. I know loads of composers who use Apple. Sometimes, it's that simple. Just like Neve 1073, a Culture Vulture, a Fender P Bass. All well known, well used. It's not something that defines me, it's a tool. I just want the best tools for the job that can be fixed quickly, serviced or worst case scenario, replaced wherever I am. 

Next, take a composer, let's say they earn $100k plus a year. Their expenses are maybe $30k per year. Take their computer which is the hub of their work, probably the most important part. The computer company needs to be made accountable if problems happen, be available on the phone, in a store, this computer last 3 years at least easily, it even has a resale value that is often 50% plus of the original purchase cost 3 years later. So then you're talking a saving of maybe $3k split over those minimum 3 years. For me, that isn't worth it not one bit.


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## mscp (May 23, 2019)

Reasons why I have made the switch to PC and won't look back at a Mac until they stop selling 'toys'.

1. Whatever they release doesn't seem to matter anymore, because it will thermal throttle and you will not be able to make use of what has been advertised, which brings me to...

2. ... The overall ventilation system is not enough for such powerful CPUs. So technically, it doesn't matter how powerful your machine is. It will be a marginal improvement to what you currently have (unless your machine is 8 years old or more). Warning: Whatever you do to curb the situation will take a direct hit on the life of your motherboard/CPU, and you might end up spending a lot of money trying to repair it.

3. Between 2013-present, I have seriously not seen any massive improvement in each MacBook Pro I have bought. If I knew this was going to happen, I would have had happily stuck to my 2013 machine. I was duped into believing that buying a new MacBook Pro would be a great step up. Nope... Marketing eh?

4. Since Mac OS Lion, I have noticed MacOS turning into iOS (with a lot of features I don't need for music production) each day that goes by - but ok..no biggie.

5. Everything is soldered onto the motherboard. The most ridiculous business practice I've seen so far. You can't change (or ask them to repair) anything inside. Literally - ANYTHING. Pass... SSD fails? Guess what you will end up having to repair...

Since I made the switch to the PC, I realized why many people have switched, and couldn't have been happier. Unless you can't work without Logic (which actually you can), Windows PCs are hands down much better machines for audio production. I'm finally able to actually use the hardware inside without worries.


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## T-LeffoH (May 23, 2019)

For most of my work I use a Macbook Pro with 16GB RAM / i7 processor in conjunction with multiple slave VE-Pro PCs but I won't continue to use Macbooks or Apple as my main DAW for much longer. I have two of the same specs/imaging in order to have a backup available in case one needs servicing.

Apple's decision over the years to embrace the closed model mentality all the way into every aspect of their hardware is so restrictive to a point that it is not reasonably scalable on a hobbyist or professional level.

I remember the days when I was able to soup up my Mac Pro with third-party RAM/SSDs for a fraction of the cost that was offered through Apple directly.

I can now custom-build two Windows PCs - if not purchase from name-brands directly with lengthy warranties - as powerful as one Apple computer. What kind of business model is that?


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## KallumS (May 23, 2019)

I dread to think how hot an i9 in that body would get.


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## karelpsota (May 23, 2019)

NoamL said:


> Appreciate your perspective as always Karel. Personally I'd rather have a networked computer with 64 or 128gb ram and then a cheap MBP at the front end to run Logic. Even more than that, I'd _*LEAP*_ at the opportunity buy an even cheaper *"Macbook Faux,"* that is, a 3rd party laptop that runs OSX with 100% stability and can customize away some of the MBP features in exchange for the same price but more RAM. Logic is really the only thing Apple has left to keep me tied to their computers.



I totally get 

I'm more of synth and processing guy... as opposed huge orchestral template guy. So I really care more about CPU than anything else.

The ram bothered me a bit... but then I thought: "with the SSD they're putting in the MPB, you might as well read your Kontakt libs *direct from disk*."

But obviously, I can see how for some people the $6K for 32 non-upgradable ram is sad. Internal SSD seems to be driving the price really high too.

(And yes it's always cheaper if you go PC or Hackintosh... but I dislike windows UI blah blah blah and I can't live with the fear that an update will break my machine)

But I'm not a purist, I'm open to other solutions. Those *Macbook Faux *look interesting. I would consider that if it's the exact internal hardware. (looked it up, but I'm linked to $50 carboard mbp haha). Do you have any links @NoamL ?


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## Dewdman42 (May 23, 2019)

I would not touch an Apple Notebook with a ten foot pole right now. Since 2010 they have had a series of hardware problems which Apple has not rectified or in some cases in even acknowledged. I have a 2010 MBP that started kernel panicking whenever the Nvidia CPU kicked on, about 3.5 years after I bought it, when it was updated to Mavericks. Scoured the internet for answers. Apple had no clue. Most people had no clue. People were being told by apple to buy a $700 replacement logic board, which would go bad again in a few months. AppleCare did nothing about it. For a while people were using a little utility that would disable the Nvidia GPU, but that didn't always work right. Then an electronics engineer figured out that the problem was that Apple used an inexpensive capacitor in a certain place on the logic board, that can have a problem when the CPU speed changes. For a few hundred bucks he can solder in a higher quality capacitor and the problem is gone. This turned out to be the real issue. Someone wrote a little kext hack eventually that basically prevents cpu speed stepping from happening, and prevents the kernel panics, but the GPU is not running at full speed that way. I have been using mine every since using that kext hack, its getting too old to justify a few hundred bucks to fix the capacitor, but I might because I am definitely not going to buy a new Apple notebook anytime soon!

Now is this an isolated incident? Nope. Use google, numerous Apple notebooks came out since 2010 with weird problems that the geniuses at Apple's "Genius Bar" were clueless about and Apple did not ever really fix the problem or acknowledge it, people were just SOL. I will not touch Apple notebooks at all now, until their reputation improves, particularly one as expensive as this one! Mine was $4000+ in 2010 and it turned into nothing but a huge hassle. Lots of people suffered for years with kernel panics and not knowing what to do until that independent electronics engineer figured out it was the capacitor, a $3 part.

Never mind that Apple still refuses to embrace touchscreens and multitouch in their OSX computer products, their notebooks may look nice with a fast CPU and elegant looking case, but they are far behind the competition, priced in the stratosphere and you can expect no help from Apple when it turns out their fancy design has flaws.


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## jbuhler (May 23, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> I would not touch an Apple Notebook with a ten foot pole right now. Since 2010 they have had a series of hardware problems which Apple has not rectified or in some cases in even acknowledged. I have a 2010 MBP that started kernel panicking whenever the Nvidia CPU kicked on, about 3.5 years after I bought it, when it was updated to Mavericks. Scoured the internet for answers. Apple had no clue. Most people had no clue. People were being told by apple to buy a $700 replacement logic board, which would go bad again in a few months. AppleCare did nothing about it. For a while people were using a little utility that would disable the Nvidia GPU, but that didn't always work right. Then an electronics engineer figured out that the problem was that Apple used an inexpensive capacitor in a certain place on the logic board, that can have a problem when the CPU speed changes. For a few hundred bucks he can solder in a higher quality capacitor and the problem is gone. This turned out to be the real issue. Someone wrote a little kext hack eventually that basically prevents cpu speed stepping from happening, and prevents the kernel panics, but the GPU is not running at full speed that way. I have been using mine every since using that kext hack, its getting too old to justify a few hundred bucks to fix the capacitor, but I might because I am definitely not going to buy a new Apple notebook anytime soon!
> 
> Now is this an isolated incident? Nope. Use google, numerous Apple notebooks came out since 2010 with weird problems that the geniuses at Apple's "Genius Bar" were clueless about and Apple did not ever really fix the problem or acknowledge it, people were just SOL. I will not touch Apple notebooks at all now, until their reputation improves, particularly one as expensive as this one! Mine was $4000+ in 2010 and it turned into nothing but a huge hassle. Lots of people suffered for years with kernel panics and not knowing what to do until that independent electronics engineer figured out it was the capacitor, a $3 part.
> 
> Never mind that Apple still refuses to embrace touchscreens and multitouch in their OSX computer products, their notebooks may look nice with a fast CPU and elegant looking case, but they are far behind the competition, priced in the stratosphere and you can expect no help from Apple when it turns out their fancy design has flaws.


On the other side my late-2012 MBP i7 has been the epitome of reliability. Swapped out the HD for an SSD, upgraded to 16GB. For the tasks I now require it, it still works great. It’s lived in and out of my bag for that entire time, so not exactly a sheltered life.


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## MrZarlton (May 23, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> On the other side my late-2012 MBP i7 has been the epitome of reliability. Swapped out the HD for an SSD, upgraded to 16GB. For the tasks I now require it, it still works great. It’s lived in and out of my bag for that entire time, so not exactly a sheltered life.


My 2015 MBP has also been rock solid.

I also wouldn’t want touchscreen at all on my laptop. If it was optional, great, but I certainly wouldn’t want to be paying extra for my next MBP for something I’ll never use.

I do wish they’d stop focusing on making “pro” laptops thinner though!


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## Dewdman42 (May 23, 2019)

some people are luckier then others. Do the research. You've been warned


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## Soundhound (May 23, 2019)

I have the same mbp, bought it second hand in 2014 or 2015 and I've never had a problem with it. The 16 gigs of ram was always a limitation, but it's always done the jobs I bought it for without complaint. There I jinxed it, it'll be a doorstop next time I open it up...





jbuhler said:


> On the other side my late-2012 MBP i7 has been the epitome of reliability. Swapped out the HD for an SSD, upgraded to 16GB. For the tasks I now require it, it still works great. It’s lived in and out of my bag for that entire time, so not exactly a sheltered life.


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## Damarus (May 23, 2019)

Thermals.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 23, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> I would not touch an Apple Notebook with a ten foot pole right now. Since 2010



My early 2014 11" MacBook Air is the best computer ever.

It's not for studio work - although it's fine for light-duty recording - but it's fabulous for traveling (or waiting rooms, etc.).



Dewdman42 said:


> Never mind that Apple still refuses to embrace touchscreens and multitouch in their OSX computer products



There are totally reasonable arguments for that, so I wouldn't say "refuses" is the right word.



MrZarlton said:


> I do wish they’d stop focusing on making “pro” laptops thinner though!



I agree 100% about thinner - who cares - however *lighter* (than laptops used to be) is important to me.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 23, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> some people are luckier then others. Do the research. You've been warned



What percentage of them has issues?

I'm certainly not apologizing, just asking the question.


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## Dewdman42 (May 23, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> My early 2014 11" MacBook Air is the best computer ever.


Hurray for you



> There are totally reasonable arguments for that, so I wouldn't say "refuses" is the right word.


I would.

will not ever buy another Apple notebook unless their reputation seriously improves.


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## Dewdman42 (May 23, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> What percentage of them has issues?
> 
> I'm certainly not apologizing, just asking the question.



Obviously have no way of knowing the answer to that ridiculous question, but if you do your homework you will find out that my experience was not that unusual and Apple's response was consistent.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 23, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> Obviously have no way of knowing the answer to that ridiculous question





Dewdman42 said:


> Hurray for you



Did someone piss in your Wheaties this morning?


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## Dewdman42 (May 23, 2019)

I haven't had my wheaties yet, maybe that's why... and yes please stop pissing in my wheaties...


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## mscp (May 23, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> some people are luckier then others. Do the research. You've been warned



I jumped ship after 20 years+ of using Apple computers. Couldn't be happier. It took me a while and some knowledge about networking to get VEP to work flawlessly. It was a technical feature that I was unaware of.

I do understand that Windows PC is not for anyone. I'm not trying to be cheeky.

PCs, coupled with Windows 10 and some computer knowledge are far more efficient and productive (not necessarily cheaper) than any current Mac in the market.


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## Dewdman42 (May 23, 2019)

relevant: 

'

By the way, the guy above is the electronics engineer that figured out that capacitor problem in the 2010 MBP's


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## robh (May 23, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> relevant:
> 
> '
> 
> By the way, the guy above is the electronics engineer that figured out that capacitor problem in the 2010 MBP's



I was wondering if it was him.


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## Dewdman42 (May 23, 2019)

So actually this guy didn't "figure it out". His buddy did. He just made the video explaining it that has been referenced by many people seeking help on the issue, and getting none from Apple.


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## T-LeffoH (May 24, 2019)

Phil81 said:


> PCs, coupled with Windows 10 and some computer knowledge are far more efficient and productive (not necessarily *cheaper*) than any current Mac in the market.



In my experience, most any brand-name PC build with comparable or better specs in areas like RAM, storage, graphics, and warranty will undoubtedly be cheaper than the Mac. Custom builds can be done for even less.

I've also noticed the warranty service available for PCs is far more expansive with the broader Windows user base. On call, on site support technicians showing up next day to replace a failed motherboard or other components has been a life saver for me when it comes to avoiding downtime.


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## N.Caffrey (May 24, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> I would not touch an Apple Notebook with a ten foot pole right now. Since 2010 they have had a series of hardware problems which Apple has not rectified or in some cases in even acknowledged. I have a 2010 MBP that started kernel panicking whenever the Nvidia CPU kicked on, about 3.5 years after I bought it, when it was updated to Mavericks. Scoured the internet for answers. Apple had no clue. Most people had no clue. People were being told by apple to buy a $700 replacement logic board, which would go bad again in a few months. AppleCare did nothing about it. For a while people were using a little utility that would disable the Nvidia GPU, but that didn't always work right. Then an electronics engineer figured out that the problem was that Apple used an inexpensive capacitor in a certain place on the logic board, that can have a problem when the CPU speed changes. For a few hundred bucks he can solder in a higher quality capacitor and the problem is gone. This turned out to be the real issue. Someone wrote a little kext hack eventually that basically prevents cpu speed stepping from happening, and prevents the kernel panics, but the GPU is not running at full speed that way. I have been using mine every since using that kext hack, its getting too old to justify a few hundred bucks to fix the capacitor, but I might because I am definitely not going to buy a new Apple notebook anytime soon!
> 
> Now is this an isolated incident? Nope. Use google, numerous Apple notebooks came out since 2010 with weird problems that the geniuses at Apple's "Genius Bar" were clueless about and Apple did not ever really fix the problem or acknowledge it, people were just SOL. I will not touch Apple notebooks at all now, until their reputation improves, particularly one as expensive as this one! Mine was $4000+ in 2010 and it turned into nothing but a huge hassle. Lots of people suffered for years with kernel panics and not knowing what to do until that independent electronics engineer figured out it was the capacitor, a $3 part.
> 
> Never mind that Apple still refuses to embrace touchscreens and multitouch in their OSX computer products, their notebooks may look nice with a fast CPU and elegant looking case, but they are far behind the competition, priced in the stratosphere and you can expect no help from Apple when it turns out their fancy design has flaws.



Have a 2013 MacBook Pro, never had a problem in 7 years! I'm actually surprised and pleased it still works so well.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 24, 2019)

N.Caffrey said:


> Have a 2013 MacBook Pro, never had a problem in 7 years! I'm actually surprised and pleased it still works so well.



I also have a 2013. It cost me nearly $3K, but it has been SOLID for the past six years. It owed me nothing after the first year, and I know I can rely on it for every single deadline....it has literally never crashed (with the exception of a bad VEPro 5 update). I would never in a million years put that faith into a Windows laptop (I have gone through two of those in the past five years....and just for non-musical tasks!). So hey, if a pro composer wants to spend $6500 on a reliable machine, go nuts, especially if it's the nucleus of your studio. I'll be upgrading later this year, either the new Mac Pro or MB Pro.


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## PeterKorcek (May 25, 2019)

It is true for me as well. Still have 2013 MB Pro and it has been working great, not a single crash. Can dual boot Windows as well for some windows related tasks.
What troubles me beside the prices is that stupid Touchbar, faulty keyobard, heat issues - in general, not really keen on spending so much money for laptop with these things and windows laptops caught up in many ways as well. Tough choice!


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## mauriziodececco (May 27, 2019)

About thermals, AppleInsider made some tests, and it came out pretty well:

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...erformance-in-the-eight-core-2019-macbook-pro


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## Damarus (May 27, 2019)

mauriziodececco said:


> About thermals, AppleInsider made some tests, and it came out pretty well:
> 
> https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...erformance-in-the-eight-core-2019-macbook-pro



"we averaged a score of 3096 on this machine in Cinebench R20 —well above the 2019 13-inch MacBook Pro with 2.4 GHz i5 processor we benchmarked that earned a 1779"

lol.. Id hope so, its double the cores.

94 degrees around 3ghz is better than the 2018 variant, but still not great at the $3000 price tag.

Again, you don't buy a notebook for performance. You buy it for portability.


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## Vik (May 27, 2019)

Damarus said:


> Again, you don't buy a notebook for performance. You buy it for portability.


Some also buy a laptop as their main computer, which is why it's great that they now have an 8-core with up to 32 gb RAM. Let's hope an option for more RAM will be the next step.


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## whinecellar (May 27, 2019)

Vik said:


> Some also buy a laptop as their main computer, which is why it's great that they now have an 8-core which 32 gb RAM. Let's hope an option for more RAM will be the next step.



Yep. I wish 64 GB were an option, but man, my main machine was a 2014 quad core i7 MacBook Pro (with just 16 GB RAM) for the last 5 years, and thanks to VE Pro, worked perfectly in the studio even on huge projects - my template was around 900 tracks.

My new 6 core MB Pro with 32 GB RAM is a monster, and I can foresee getting quite a lot done when traveling!


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## BezO (May 29, 2019)

I've all but settled on an iMac, 3.6GHz 8-core i9. I'm bumping the drive up to a 512GB SSD and sticking with 8GB RAM to max out on the after market.

This beat out a similar spec-ed MBP with 32GB RAM and an iMac Pro with 64GB RAM. Though the MBP might be enough, I didn't want to take the chance. And the iMac Pro is likely overkill for anything I'd be doing.

In case there are any, "no, that's not enough processor" responses - I know these can be hard to judge without detail - my projects are small compared to many here. My templates are 30-40 VI tracks (& growing) of mostly Native Instruments, Soniccouture, Orange Tree, Spitfire, Output, Arturia, Heavyocity & Superior Drummer. Mixes are moderate. Typical performance from my 2.8GHz 4-core i7 w/16GB RAM is 50-65% CPU & 10-12GB RAM used.

Any reason the above mentioned iMac couldn't handle what I'd be throwing at it with ease?


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## Damarus (May 30, 2019)

Good info about the refresh


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## jasonmrose (May 30, 2019)

BezO said:


> I've all but settled on an iMac, 3.6GHz 8-core i9. I'm bumping the drive up to a 512GB SSD and sticking with 8GB RAM to max out on the after market.
> 
> This beat out a similar spec-ed MBP with 32GB RAM and an iMac Pro with 64GB RAM. Though the MBP might be enough, I didn't want to take the chance. And the iMac Pro is likely overkill for anything I'd be doing.
> 
> ...



All I can tell you is my own experience. I bought the top of the line iMac a couple of months ago...1TB SSD...72GB of RAM from OWC. I was very excited to get this processor in this computer. I planned to use it for a long time.

I did my research and found a couple of popular videos that said the fans were quieter than the 2017 models and that there wasn't any thermal throttling.

But unfortunately, this wasn't my experience...and I had to send it back. First, I noticed that any time my project went over 45-50%, the fans would REALLY kick in. It wasn't that the processor couldn't handle the workload...it was that the fan couldn't keep the machine cool. I never pushed this machine over 70% (and I was running some pretty big projects). But the fan noise was a deal breaker for me.

It's possible that your workload won't be a problem. But I personally couldn't justify making a purchase this big and not being able to use the processor to it's fullest capacity. I'm currently computer-less -- waiting to see what happens next week at WWDC.

Hope that helps you in your decision.


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## BezO (May 30, 2019)

Thanks @jasonmrose!

Sounds like my 2017 MBP. Never pushed it far enough to crackle or crash, but the fan does go into overdrive when the CPU gets up to 60% or so. I didn't think that would be an issue with iMacs. I'll definitely look into this.


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## gsilbers (Aug 19, 2019)

I think I’m heading towards the new 2019 MacBook pros. The benchmarks are crazy good for both single and multi core. Even at the price it’s pretty good if it lasts as long as my 2009 Mac Pro and 2011 MacBook. Sounds expensive but lasting this long does help see the price differently instead of comparing it to random PCs... which doesn’t matter anyway for me since I’m hardcore logic guys and cannot stand windows in any form. .

I’m not doing a lot of large orchestral templates so I don’t know if 32gb ram will be enough if I can set Kontakt to purge and use tinder bolt drives.


To me the only limitation in these machines is that it requires peripherals. So the whole point of being portable now needs 1 or two external drives, a dock with plenty of usb1 items and video outs hdmi. It’s this whole ivy thing of making laptops sooooo skinny.
That’s my only complaint for laptops that are so powerful and go beyond the photoshop and word processing web browsing customer.

Anyways, does anyone actually have the 2019 MacBook w 32g of ram and can comment on workflow with external drives and in general how it is with large sessions? Thx


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## mscp (Aug 19, 2019)

gsilbers said:


> It’s this whole ivy thing of making laptops sooooo skinny.



Not sure if it is accurate to blame Jon for it. I bet it was someone else’s decision imposed on Jon since his designs are generally inspirational. Bare in mind he left Apple for clear reasons.


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## gsilbers (Aug 19, 2019)

Phil81 said:


> Not sure if it is accurate to blame Jon for it. I bet it was someone else’s decision imposed on Jon since his designs are generally inspirational. Bare in mind he left Apple for clear reasons.


oh i think i read one article about it and thats from where i got it.. 








One of Apple's most controversial product designs in years may have been the result of Jony Ive's obsession with making devices thinner


Ive was too focused on making thin laptops, and it led to the Apple butterfly keyboard fiasco, a prominent Apple blogger said.




www.businessinsider.com





but maybe. who knows for sure. 

wish someone came up with a all in one dock and hard drive solution thats convenient to use on these extreme skinny designs. i asked on another thread.. not a thing it seems.


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## mscp (Aug 19, 2019)

gsilbers said:


> oh i think i read one article about it and thats from where i got it..
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I wish i could help you, but I went the Windows route a while ago.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 19, 2019)

gsilbers said:


> wish someone came up with a all in one dock and hard drive solution thats convenient to use on these extreme skinny designs. i asked on another thread.. not a thing it seems.



Have a look at the Cal-Digit docks, I've heard a lot of good things about them. This, with a couple of Samsung T5's, would be the cat's meow. 

https://www.caldigit.com


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## Symfoniq (Aug 19, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Have a look at the Cal-Digit docks, I've heard a lot of good things about them. This, with a couple of Samsung T5's, would be the cat's meow.
> 
> https://www.caldigit.com



I had to return my CalDigit TS3 Plus. I would get humming/buzzing when using it with my RME Babyface Pro. Did everything I could to eliminate possible ground loops to no effect. Hopefully your mileage will vary.


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## whinecellar (Aug 19, 2019)

Symfoniq said:


> I had to return my CalDigit TS3 Plus. I would get humming/buzzing when using it with my RME Babyface Pro. Did everything I could to eliminate possible ground loops to no effect. Hopefully your mileage will vary.



Interesting... after trying several makes/models of TB docks, the Caldigit TS3 plus is the ONLY one that has worked flawlessly for me, and it's the hub of my whole studio now that I'm using a 2018 MB Pro as my main machine. Yes, they are great - mine's a 6 core i7, 32 GB RAM, Vega20 video - and it screams - but yeah, the keyboards are STUPID... absolutely asinine that a $4500 laptop by APPLE feels like utter crap. I have a 2009 17" MB Pro and a 2014 as well, and both of those machines have been like tanks. This one - well, time will tell. Performance is off the charts, but that $%^&* obsession with thinness has GOT to stop...


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## mscp (Aug 19, 2019)

whinecellar said:


> Interesting... after trying several makes/models of TB docks, the Caldigit TS3 plus is the ONLY one that has worked flawlessly for me, and it's the hub of my whole studio now that I'm using a 2018 MB Pro as my main machine. Yes, they are great - mine's a 6 core i7, 32 GB RAM, Vega20 video - and it screams - but yeah, the keyboards are STUPID... absolutely asinine that a $4500 laptop by APPLE feels like utter crap. I have a 2009 17" MB Pro and a 2014 as well, and both of those machines have been like tanks. This one - well, time will tell. Performance is off the charts, but that $%^&* obsession with thinness has GOT to stop...



2015-2019 (4 years) was how long it took for me to switch to Windows. Used to be a massive Apple fan, but I just couldn’t justify owning their machines anymore since Logic is not my go-to DAW, and every machine they’ve made from 2015 onwards has been (and is) just full of obnoxious factory performance issues. But it’s their prerogative. To each its own choosing.


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## gsilbers (Aug 20, 2019)

whinecellar said:


> Interesting... after trying several makes/models of TB docks, the Caldigit TS3 plus is the ONLY one that has worked flawlessly for me, and it's the hub of my whole studio now that I'm using a 2018 MB Pro as my main machine. Yes, they are great - mine's a 6 core i7, 32 GB RAM, Vega20 video - and it screams - but yeah, the keyboards are STUPID... absolutely asinine that a $4500 laptop by APPLE feels like utter crap. I have a 2009 17" MB Pro and a 2014 as well, and both of those machines have been like tanks. This one - well, time will tell. Performance is off the charts, but that $%^&* obsession with thinness has GOT to stop...




ive seen your laptop posts for at least 5 years now here at VI... you didnt find the mac mini from 2018 appealing since it had 64gb ram, more ports and still small to move around?


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## whinecellar (Aug 20, 2019)

gsilbers said:


> ive seen your laptop posts for at least 5 years now here at VI... you didnt find the mac mini from 2018 appealing since it had 64gb ram, more ports and still small to move around?



Oh believe me, I did! However, I still do about 90 tour dates a year, so a laptop is still the best choice for me to be able to quickly work anywhere - including planes, trains & automobiles. In fact, with the new rig, I found a small USB-C powered RAID enclosure that holds a pair of SSDs, so with just that and the laptop, I can do just about anything anywhere for a few hours on battery power. And when I'm back in the studio, it connects to the Caldigit dock, which then gives me access to my slave machines, VE Pro, etc. - so I really have no limits when I'm home. Kind of the best of both worlds!


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## gsilbers (Aug 21, 2019)

Dell just came out with gen 10 intel processors laptop.


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## Michael Antrum (Aug 23, 2019)

I've been on the verge of buying a new Macbook Pro fora while now. I have a late 2013 MacBook Pro 13" with i7, 16gb RAM and and 512 SSD. I bought it second hand (but not far off new) for £ 1100.00 and it has been simply flawless. (As has my Mac Pro 2009 and my iMac Late2015.)

I've had the money tucked away for a while now, but the big thing that's stopping me is the result of the obsession with a thin design. This leads to:

- Crappy keyboard with poor reliability.
- Lack of ports.
- No magsafe power connector - a truly backward step IMO.

Now even a company like Apple with all their resources is going to take a little time to re-tool and re-design, and i'm hearing rumours of a new 16' Macbook Pro this year - so the cash is staying in the bank for now...


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## gsilbers (Aug 23, 2019)

Michael Antrum said:


> I've been on the verge of buying a new Macbook Pro fora while now. I have a late 2013 MacBook Pro 13" with i7, 16gb RAM and and 512 SSD. I bought it second hand (but not far off new) for £ 1100.00 and it has been simply flawless. (As has my Mac Pro 2009 and my iMac Late2015.)
> 
> I've had the money tucked away for a while now, but the big thing that's stopping me is the result of the obsession with a thin design. This leads to:
> 
> ...



ditto. im waiting to see that new 16 inch one. although seems it will be a lot more expensive.


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## gsilbers (Aug 23, 2019)

fukk.. now some bigger tarrifs...


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## Symfoniq (Nov 23, 2019)

whinecellar said:


> Oh believe me, I did! However, I still do about 90 tour dates a year, so a laptop is still the best choice for me to be able to quickly work anywhere - including planes, trains & automobiles. In fact, with the new rig, I found a small USB-C powered RAID enclosure that holds a pair of SSDs, so with just that and the laptop, I can do just about anything anywhere for a few hours on battery power. And when I'm back in the studio, it connects to the Caldigit dock, which then gives me access to my slave machines, VE Pro, etc. - so I really have no limits when I'm home. Kind of the best of both worlds!



So are you still liking this setup, @whinecellar ?

I'm thinking about replacing my 2015 MacBook Pro with the new MacBook Pro 16-inch, and giving the CalDigit TS3+ another chance (I suspect the one I used with my 2017 MacBook Pro was defective). I'd probably be going for the 8-core model and 64 GB of RAM.

I'm curious how much you feel like you have to rely on VE Pro when using the MacBook Pro as your master? I'd like to avoid using VE Pro if possible.

Also, how's the fan noise with lots of VIs?


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## whinecellar (Nov 23, 2019)

Symfoniq said:


> So are you still liking this setup, @whinecellar ?
> 
> I'm thinking about replacing my 2015 MacBook Pro with the new MacBook Pro 16-inch, and giving the CalDigit TS3+ another chance (I suspect the one I used with my 2017 MacBook Pro was defective). I'd probably be going for the 8-core model and 64 GB of RAM.
> 
> ...



I absolutely love it. I’ve kinda surprised myself in that I’ve really moved toward a “load as you go” approach for a lot of projects, as opposed to my massive VEP template. I would still use that of course if I were doing a big scoring gig, but it’s so nice to get most of my stuff done with just one machine - that happens to be mobile!

Fan noise hasn’t been much of an issue outside of video project rendering


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## Symfoniq (Nov 23, 2019)

whinecellar said:


> I absolutely love it. I’ve kinda surprised myself in that I’ve really moved toward a “load as you go” approach for a lot of projects, as opposed to my massive VEP template. I would still use that of course if I were doing a big scoring gig, but it’s so nice to get most of my stuff done with just one machine - that happens to be mobile!
> 
> Fan noise hasn’t been much of an issue outside of video project rendering



Thank you!


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## gsilbers (Nov 23, 2019)

whinecellar said:


> I absolutely love it. I’ve kinda surprised myself in that I’ve really moved toward a “load as you go” approach for a lot of projects, as opposed to my massive VEP template. I would still use that of course if I were doing a big scoring gig, but it’s so nice to get most of my stuff done with just one machine - that happens to be mobile!
> 
> Fan noise hasn’t been much of an issue outside of video project rendering


 How are u dealing with external drives (or samples in general) or do you have the slaves pc for that?
And same deal with audio drives, do you keep all internal or also use external drive for that?


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## whinecellar (Nov 24, 2019)

gsilbers said:


> How are u dealing with external drives (or samples in general) or do you have the slaves pc for that?
> And same deal with audio drives, do you keep all internal or also use external drive for that?



When I’m in the studio the laptop connects to a Caldigit thunderbolt dock, which in turn connects to a 4-bay SSD enclosure, audio/MIDI interfaces, 4K monitor, etc.

When I travel, I have a little 2-bay bus powered RAID enclosure that has a samples SSD and project audio drive in it. I think it’s made by Mediasonic - it was $49 on amazon and works perfectly - and quite fast!


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## Auddict (Nov 24, 2019)

kyleogren said:


> Processor speed isn't determined exclusively by GHz value, check out this graph to see actual CPU performance of different processors. You'll notice the GHz is all over the map:
> 
> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/laptop.html
> 
> The new i9-9980HK in the refreshed MacBooks is a beastly processor


So glad someone brought this up. With the PC systems at my studio I added i9s to the DAW/main slave, but the i9 9900k didn't beat my i7 6950x, so that one defo didn't get replaced...


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