# A Posting Which was REMOVED from the NorthernSounds GPO Foru



## KevinKauai (Nov 6, 2005)

It was there! And then it was gone.

And you thought that the Soviet era was over, eh?

The full story: http://www.kevintweedy.net/G/Banned.htm (Too HOT for NorthernSounds/GPO)

KevinKauai


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## choc0thrax (Nov 6, 2005)

Hehe that's gary alright. We actually had to ban Gary from our IRC channel a long time ago. He was monitoring stuff we said and also spreading lies about us to developers.


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## TheoKrueger (Nov 6, 2005)

The capture screen is mightier than the sword!


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## KevinKauai (Nov 6, 2005)

> The capture screen is mightier than the sword!


Yes, Theo.

I'm just sorry that I didn't also capture the private messages with which Mr. G was trying to intimidate me from participating in the chat. When I mentioned once that some might find his behavior amusing, at least, he quickly hit upon "it's illegal to share a PRIVATE message" with anyone who wasn't included in the private chat.

I'm actually NOT bitter -- I thoroughly refuse to let a small-minded petty act like this to raise my blood pressure! -- but it's darned interesting how KARMA will solve this in the end, isn't it?

 Kevin


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## choc0thrax (Nov 6, 2005)

KevinKauai said:


> > "it's illegal to share a PRIVATE message" with anyone who wasn't included in the private chat.



hehehe.


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## Ed (Nov 6, 2005)

KevinKauai said:


> he quickly hit upon "it's illegal to share a PRIVATE message" with anyone who wasn't included in the private chat.



WHATAA????? HAHAHAHHAHAHA 


Ed


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## KevinKauai (Nov 6, 2005)

*Not over till the fat lady squishes you!*

Hilarious!

I attempted to make a general posting in the "Sample Libraries Discussion" (under the illusion that others should know the character of the folks that they are dealing with) and after getting a screen snapshot of the final message, I pressed "Submit".

Huh? It didn't show up in the topic listing. Instead, there was a "private message" waiting for me.

All of that part of the drama is http://www.kevintweedy.net/G/Chapter2.htm (HERE).

 KevinKauai


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## choc0thrax (Nov 6, 2005)

Fancy... you got a pm from the mod that can speak English.


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## Hans Adamson (Nov 6, 2005)

Kevin,

Seems you finally got a dosis of the real Gary. Sorry about that.

I think part of the problem is that you have been "illoyal' and been active on other Forums.


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 6, 2005)

I know this seems personal to you and I do share your pain, but to be honest this subject is like a worn out item that has lost its allure. And I don't mean to be unfeeling regarding your plight. NS is what it is. Regardless of whether we agree or not they can run it any way they want. 

I like what we have here at VI by comparison. (Of course the fact that I was instrumental in creating it has absolutely NO weight to my opinion!) But to be serious, personally I think bashing the competition is a bit old and perhaps unprofessional. Therefore my own resolve personally has been to simply work at building something better rather than waste my time complaining about another community's management - but that's just me. I do understand that you're feeling a little pain because of what happened. I'm sorry that it did. But Kevin you should know by now that you're more than welcome to be here equally as are members of other communities. I'd like everyone to feel welcome here - probably not possible all the time, but at least that's the goal.


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## KevinKauai (Nov 6, 2005)

Frederick - - 

I certainly didn't mean to be "bashing the competition" as much as to point out that THIS forum is probably the only place where I could tell the whole sordid story. That is certainly a compliment to the independence that you have set up here.

Yes, I am saddened that things with Mr. G have come to this apparent rapprochement, but I'd rather keep my personal dignity and honesty than knuckle under to the coercion and tactics that were being employed privately in one-on-one Private Messages which Gary made me believe were not to be quoted. 

The situation now is that the management at NorthernSounds have told me that the previously removed message is now in the Forum where it is presumably up for comment and rebuttal. I have absolutely no problem with that as long as the original text of the message has not been altered. I stand behind what I said there with absolutely no apologies or worries about my personal karma. (In fact, I have asked a Forum friend to do a screen shot so that I can compare the current version with the original screen shot. While I would be surprised to see any "latter-day editing" it has been known to happen to make a point.

Life goes on ... frankly NS needs folks like me a lot more than I need them. There are a lot better places to get independent information that on a product-sponsored site!

Thanks for what you have here.

KevinKauai


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## TheoKrueger (Nov 7, 2005)

Master Frederick, whatever you've been doing until now keep it up cause this place is definitely the best. On the net :shock:


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## pdzl (Nov 7, 2005)

I've seen similiar situations of this going around in almost all the major forums lately - Northernsounds, garritan, Soundsonline. They are running their forums as businesses more and more...

It's unfortunate but if you post under those forums, you are essentially held to their rules, and way of running things.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 7, 2005)

Regardless of the specifics of the story, which I'm absolutely not going to step in, it's only fair to point out that lots of companies have announced products too early, and for all kinds of reasons.

Remember everything Yamaha made in the '80? Did any of you try to get an SPX-90 when they first came out? You couldn't.

And remember the ADAT? It took a couple of years!

Worse, remember the first issue of Virtual Instruments magazine? That evil thief Batzdorf announced it and then was a couple of months late shipping it!

Everything takes longer than it's supposed to take, especially software.


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## KevinKauai (Nov 7, 2005)

Haha, Nick! I enjoy your sense of humor ? especially about ?Virtual Instruments? magazine! It?s too bad that more folk in "the biz" can?t buy (or rent!) a sense of humor and proportion. A perfectly acceptable response to my niggling about long delivery times would have been ?you don?t know what it takes to launch what we?re trying to do? but getting hypersensitive and privately abrasive about it is in the completely wrong direction, I think. 

Unfortunately, I think that there is quite possibly the motive of ?keep away? in announcing three products in three lucrative areas. It?s the equivalent of ?staking out your territory? when you have little or nothing to show as far as reality. Early announcement of this type also leaves the seldom-mentioned specter of the products which are just never delivered, but they have a ?freeze? effect on potential buyers who might go ahead and get the product that IS in hand.

There is some satisfaction in knowing that this thread has now (at this writing) been viewed well over 400 times and the two supplementary pages where I ?show the goods? are reaching 200. I never set out to bring derision to either Garritan or Simon, but they are doing a good job of it themselves.

Life goes on!

KevinKauai


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## Thonex (Nov 7, 2005)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Worse, remember the first issue of Virtual Instruments magazine? That evil thief Batzdorf announced it and then was a couple of months late shipping it!



Yes, but I don't think you were announcing VI magazine in order to compete with a publication that was announced to be released at the same time. I think a lot of the companies see that their competitor is going to release something... so they get the word out to make people wait... and I think that's wrong... at the very least... it's not very nice  

T


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## choc0thrax (Nov 7, 2005)

Speaking of VI magazine I was just looking over issue 2, very nice.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 7, 2005)

Thanks Choc.

And what do you mean, Thonex? Of *course* I was trying to freeze the market! I didn't want people buying People Magazine when V.I. was about to be unleashed on the world!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 7, 2005)

> Life goes on!



Let's hope!


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## Waywyn (Nov 9, 2005)

hm nothing much left to say about that behaviour of Mr. G.

i think it would be better to just let people talk as and where they wish.

people which are really amazed and convinced by GPO buy it anyway. so where is the problem?

.. the only thing which happens while Mr. G. tries to play god, is that he looses customers and sympathy points. apparently he likes the second option more.

i was also angry a while ago, but in the moment i can just smile and think the rest about this childish man. ... even the problem is kinda old it stil seems to be actual.


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## Markleford (Nov 9, 2005)

Honestly, Kevin, I still don't even know what you wanted from Gary. Just an "admission of wrongdoing"? Hush-money? What could ever have been done to make things alright by you? And if you had no restitution in mind, why keep at it?

And I'm still not sure why it's so important to slag on Garritan & Co. in particular when plenty of NAMM and other industry showings from many companies from this year and years before took just as long or even longer to deliver.

So you decided to do something that you knew would get you banned (knowing full well that the NSS admins already had a disliking for you), such that you could specifically run and tell another forum how much of a rebel you are, screen-captures already in hand. Congrats: wish fulfilled. That, I'm sorry to say, was pretty unclassy. It reminds me of the young toughs who take a swing at a cop so they'll be arrested in front of their homies to increase their street-cred.

Incidentally, your post is still up for all to read. While there are plenty of replies that agree how it's better when products come through closer to announcement, there's also an almost universal understanding that it happens, and nobody has agreed with you that the practice is unexpected or "unfair" for the software industry, nor that Garritan & Co. are the lone perpetrators in this regard.

Dude. I just can't stop shaking my head, wondering what good could have come from the incessant "whistle-blowing" campaign, nor what the heck you expected to happen by telling the NSS mods "I dare you to ban me". It's just a waste all around. If you really want to change things, there's really no point in self-destructing. And if you're tired of trying to change things and want to move on, then just move on. Without the drama.

Besides this moment of suicide-bombing and unfortunate resolution, I still think you're a generally swell guy. I just hope you can forgive me for being a GG sympathizer.

- m


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## Markleford (Nov 9, 2005)

I forgot to add the link, in the interest of fairness...

For those of you who haven't earned your gang colors by being banned from NSS yet , here is the original posting:

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39470 (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=39470)

So I guess it *hasn't* been removed from history yet, as Kevin's thread title claims. Care to comment on this omission, KK? It's kind of funny to see someone claiming censorship brazenly playing the propaganda card! :lol: 

But I'm sure we can send enough young toughs that way to flood it with enough disparaging comments to have it removed as a self-fulfilling prophecy, eh? 

And to think, this is all due to little bits of digitized sound. More's the pity.

- m


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## Ed (Nov 9, 2005)

Markleford said:


> http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39470 (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=39470)
> 
> So I guess it *hasn't* been removed from history yet, as Kevin's thread title claims. Care to comment on this omission, KK? It's kind of funny to see someone claiming censorship brazenly playing the propaganda card! :lol:



You should have read this thread more thoroughly, Markleford.

Kevin DID say the thread hadent been removed:

_"The situation now is that the management at NorthernSounds have told me that *the previously removed message is now in the Forum where it is presumably up for comment and rebuttal*. I have absolutely no problem with that as long as the original text of the message has not been altered. I stand behind what I said there with absolutely no apologies or worries about my personal karma. (In fact, I have asked a Forum friend to do a screen shot so that I can compare the current version with the original screen shot. While I would be surprised to see any "latter-day editing" it has been known to happen to make a point"_

Ed


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## Markleford (Nov 9, 2005)

Ed said:


> You should have read this thread more thoroughly, Markleford.
> 
> Kevin DID say the thread hadent been removed:


Ah, you are right. I suppose I missed that from reading while rolling my eyes.  Sorry, Kevin.

However, the thread title here still stands, which doesn't really jibe with my sense of "Truth and Justice" (as bandied about here in popular poll format). And I suppose there are plenty of others who might have missed the addendum like me. Sort of a grey line on what's "fair".

Anyway, I fear not for Kevin's personal karma, either, but I imagine he might have a number of conversations down the road that begin with: _"Kev, ol' bean, good to see you! Long time! And what *were* you smoking during your GPO forum meltdown?"_  I've just somehow come to expect that occasionally people gotta do what they gotta do, and can only hope they can look back at it eventually and say, "Really, why did I bother?"

Like Frederick pointed out, moving on to building something better is a good thing. I just wish people did it with less drama (and personal vendetta sites!), but all the World (Wide Web) *is* a stage...

Off to bed and a book for me. Kevin, drop me a PM if you'd like.

- m


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## KevinKauai (Nov 10, 2005)

Hi, Markle - - 

Thanks for your comments here. However, rather than PM-ing you with my rebuttal, I?d prefer to post that here so that all can be aware of ?my side? after your editorial remarks.

But ?unclassy?? ?brazenly playing the propaganda card?? (Well your foundation for this bar, at least, was founded on your own oversight, wasn?t it?)

"Really, why did I bother?" Simple. To test really how commercially protective NS is. Point proven.

?Knowing full well that the NSS admins already had a disliking for you? Perhaps you knew that. Frankly, I was oblivious. I had had only one little rebuke from ?PaPa Chalk? - - a.k.a. ?Mark Simon? - - on an earlier point from which I retreated gracefully.

I think that Gary and I had been heading for a complete melt-down for months. It really began with my agreeing to do a little independent Internet program (3 hours per week) on CygnusRadio.com. When I put what I honestly believed would be a welcomed announcement into the Garritan/General category it was moved in minutes to ?Interviews?. Huh? One of the twice weekly chats was pretty much in the same time-frame, so I privately asked Gary why he had moved it to ?Siberia?. (When was the last time you really looked even at the topics in the ?Interviews? section?) What then ensued was a whole diatribe (uni-tribe ? since it was very one-sided) accusation of me attempting to scuttle Christopher Duncan?s ?Composer Channel? operation. When I pointed out that my little INDEPENDENT (non-GPO restricted) show was THREE HOURS a week (last time I checked, that?s 1.7% compared to a 24 by 7 operation of TCC) and that I thought GPO folks and others on NS had a right to hear about where they could get additional exposure for their stuff, that completely fell on deaf ears. WHY? I truly believe that GG was offended that I should mention that the material could be from ANY source. We went around and around and altogether I felt as if I had been beaten around the head and shoulders over nothing more than wanting to supply yet another platform for developing composers and artists to show off their goods. (I should emphasize here as I did at the time, that I make not a penny from this effort. In fact, the ?station? takes donations from the various ?presenters? to pay the monthly internet-cast charges. It?s a micro-PBS in spirit and we are also recently getting very minor donations from some of the steady listeners and supporters. Compare that to Duncan?s ?commercial? operation - - he?s a Garritan reseller! - - and you have to shake your head at what would cause the level of vitriol from GG to be aimed at me!)

You are right that I may have been flogging a dead horse in the ?announcement to release time? issue. I wasn?t the one who made it personal. I initially posed the question as a general topic, as in ?what does everything think about the long lag time between when things are announced and when/if they finally hit the marketplace?? I may have even cited EWQL and Giga as additional example, in an attempt to not seem as if I was singling GG out for derision. But there remains, the very real issue of ?locking the market? by these sorts of announcements. Frankly, I believe there should be an FTC (US) rule that software makers cannot announce anything unless the delivery is with X months (where X is 3 to 6, for example) and that penalties would automatically be imposed if the product is NOT delivered. Look how long Giga 3 was in birthing! Jeez!

The long and short of it is that Gary really doesn?t like anyone with a truly independent gait. He simple adores folks who push his product and sing the Garritan song. When I was labelling things ?100% GPO? and placing them in various places to be heard, he was all applause and good cheer. When he heard that I got into the EWQLSO/Gold group buy (never would have bought it at $995 but $398 was too good to pass up!), things began to chill. As a matter of fairness, I decided that I would point out which voices were GPO, GOS, EW and others (VSL mallets, pianos, etc.) and GG became considerable less enthusiastic about my stuff. Coincidence? Yeah .. sure.

I grabbed the screen shots of the postings for my own record. As noted, the second post never even made it to the general ?Sample? forum as it was instantly intercepted by ?masimon? and resulted in the ?zero tolerance? private message. When that sequence of events unfurled, I figured it was time to take the "whistle-blowing" to another level.

It?s certainly FINE for NorthernSounds to provide a COMMERCIAL platform for various purveyors to pay to host their forums. As far as ?truth in advertising? goes, I think that the NorthernSounds (and any other forum which is ?owned? by commercial interests and sponsored by folks selling something) should be required to have a DISCLAIMER right at the top of the main forum list. Something like ?This forum is provided by commercial interests and has significant restrictions as to what you may or may not say. In addition, this operation profits from a percentage of any sales which are shown herein as ?Group Buys?.:

Unfortunately, I think that many a new participant is unaware of the degree to which the place is operating under a strict ?don?t-point-out-what-the emperor-is-or-isn?t-wearing? rule. Frankly, if I had been fully cognizant of the degree to which the place is mostly ?the party line? and completely a FOR-profit operation, I never would have participated. So WHY NOT go out with a blaze of hutzpah? Everything that goes on there in terms of announcements and comments by the purveyors and the folks who cow-tow to those ?operating rules? is automatically suspect. This isn?t a ?free and open forum? by ANY shake of the stick. Therefore, it is of little value.

Places like THIS forum - - where I can at least posit my question without fear of being bounced - - are FAR more valuable and for that, I thank the folks who bring us this place! Enthusiastically! Here, I can state my opinion the "GPO brass is just horrid" or that the release tails on the EWQLSO/Gold strings are totally mucked up (if I honestly thought that either of those two were true - - and there's no reason to believe that I do!).

I really have absolutely ZERO regrets about what transpired on the NS area. Frankly, I consider it a ?badge of honor? to have been BANNED from there. It is gratifying to see that in the less than 5 days that THIS post has been here (so far) has had almost 1,000 views. That?s getting the word out. And that, my friend, is GOOD for the ?community?. (Odd, though, that only 32 folks have voted an opinion the Poll. That?s a far less percentage than show up at our American polls - - _but that?s a whole other topic!_)

Lastly, I don?t consider your remarks an attack, but I do seriously worry about folks who gather around the campfire and sing the Garritan song too often. Whatever environmental hazard you may be exposing there could be tainting *your* judgment. I'll miss the interaction with many of the fine folks in the twice weekly GPO chat. (Many of those have come forward directly to me by direct email ([email protected]) to stay in touch. But now I fully understand why it was transitions from "IRC-hosted" to *within* the NS forum area. (It keeps the riff-raff out!) I'm proud to be counted in that group!

Kevin Fletcher Tweedy
(KevinKauai)

_P.S. Markle: To answer this post, you must supply the cube root of 2197._


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## Markleford (Nov 10, 2005)

KevinKauai said:


> _P.S. Markle: To answer this post, you must supply the cube root of 2197._


13!

I also have a bit of a problem with the NSS terms of service, but I don't think that daring the admins to ban me does anybody any good.

It *is* a commercial site, to my mind, and I don't believe that they make this provenance fully apparent. And where are the terms of service? It's not on the "Contact Us" page, as it should be. It's not on a header or footer, as it should be. Instead, it's all the way on the very last forum section, "Rules, Policies, and Disclaimers", which might not be visible to you, depending on how big you have your browser open.

Then, if you open that thread section... no posts. This is because the thread view defaults to a time span less than the original posting. So then you have to specifiy "From the: Beginning" and hit "Show Threads". Ah, finally, there it is. Along with text that reads: "PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU HAVE READ THE ENTIRE RULES POLICIES, AND DISCLAIMERS BEFORE YOU AGREE."

This is entirely unacceptable, in my experience, particularly considering the strictness with which they enforce the rules.

Now, mind you, I have no problem with rules. I have no problem with *strict* rules. But to keep them tucked away in a dusty corner of the site, rather than with a direct link on *each* page, that's just poor business practice: it neither allows your members the facility to check them quickly, nor does it give you the facility in enforcement to say "the rules *are* posted for all to read". If you want a forum where people can't say the word "ORANGE", that's fine with me: I just want everyone to know it up front without having to jump through hoops.

If anything needs to be posted on NSS, it's what I've outlined here. But it doesn't require drama or threats or name-calling. Claiming that NSS admins are jackbooted thugs after challenging their power can only get you the response you were expecting, just as slapping a cop would. It's not surprising. It's not shocking. It's not revealing. Your view-count on this thread is pretty much immaterial: it consists mostly NSS denizens to begin with, and includes re-readings. Of course, giving one reader pause to consider NSS/GG policy may be worth it to you, but I don't think "almost 1000 views" is exactly "getting the word out". Instead, it's just fanning the flames, because everyone loves gossip and fist-fights.

I've said my peace about both NSS ("commercial, pay-to-play") and VI-Control ("filled with bitter, elitist expats") elsewhere, as I think that does far more good than posting on the original source site in language specifically designed to get your banned and the post removed. Having done that, I can move on and use each for their strengths: I go to NSS for Garritan product support, making sure to stay clear of product discussions, and I come to VI-Control for product discussions, making sure to stay clear of the bitter "badge of honor" NSS-bannee prattle. 

Quite frankly, anyone who only uses one forum for their news and discussion is only doing themselves a disservice. Use all the choices available to you, and take them for what they are, realising that your "sound and fury" most likely won't enact change.

Then again, it's vaguely interesting that this is coming from me, as I'm a moderator on KVRaudio.com, which is notoriously *too* permissive for most of the web.  We get indignant readers who get upset that you try to get them to tone down "you faggot baby-raping fcuktard" to something more socially acceptable (but still offensive) like "you're such a moron", yelling on and on about "my freedom of speech!" :lol: 

So to see you dousing yourself in gasoline and handing a lighter to the NSS staff...? It brings up mixed emotions for me. In essence, it's just a definitive statement of "I'm moving on now", and that would be a lot easier to take than declaring suicidal-jihad on the mount. Yes, it's disappointing. I do think it lacks class, especially when you're trying to communicate with other readers: it's more effective to *not* look like a raging loon in your final moment.

But I fundamentally *get* when people have had enough and need to get out. I just hope they find their happiness eventually and can get rid of the bitterness.

- m


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## Hans Adamson (Nov 10, 2005)

Markleford,

Are you calling yourself a "bitter, elitist expat"? Or are you counting yourself outside of that derogatory remark? If you do, you need a disclaimer in your signature. Broad remarks like that can come back and bite you in your back. You don't want to be associated with such people, I assume?


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## choc0thrax (Nov 10, 2005)

People who have had the pleasure of tasting me report that I taste like salt and cabbage and not very bitter. Right Hans? :wink:


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## Hans Adamson (Nov 10, 2005)

Uuuuuhhhmmm,

Don't interupt me now choc0. This is not the time. I am in my role as a bitter expat now. Whatever that is. 8)


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## KevinKauai (Nov 10, 2005)

Thanks, Markle.

I do not count myself as a "bitter, elitist expat" but I am encouraged that my suggestions about presenting themselves "fairly and honestly" (vis-a-vis what they are and more importantly what they are NOT) would be far more admirable from NSS.

So what gets you banned at KVR? I'm registered there, but hardly get by.



> I don't think "almost 1000 views" is exactly "getting the word out".


 I am utterly amazed that his thread has been seen that many times. If 40 people had seen my thread, I'd consider that a victory. Over 1000 is beyond comprehension.

Life goes on ...

 KevinKauai


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## choc0thrax (Nov 10, 2005)

I'm probably responsible for 800 of those 1000 views.


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## Hans Adamson (Nov 10, 2005)

Im getting up to the low 190's.


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## Markleford (Nov 11, 2005)

Hans Adamson said:


> Are you calling yourself a "bitter, elitist expat"? Or are you counting yourself outside of that derogatory remark? If you do, you need a disclaimer in your signature. Broad remarks like that can come back and bite you in your back. You don't want to be associated with such people, I assume?


I figured we needed little icons under our avatars, mirroring the metaphorical "badges of honor" from previous battles, to make it clear where our allegiances sit. :wink:

The only place I used to consider myself a bitter, elitist expat was from here (look a few messages down):

http://www.white-barn.com/nms/html/nms_299.htm

Then again, that was almost 15 years ago now! :lol: I'd actually searched on this for the first time since then (the Internet never forgets!) because this incident kinda reminded me of that. Oh, those idealistic young hothead days...

Since then I try not to wrap too much of myself in the flag of an online discussion group. KVR is my closest, as I sorta fell into being a mod there, but I'm always prepared to acknowledge its flaws. But by the same measure, as I've mentioned, I can use it for its strengths as well, and "fortify my diet" with other sources.

But for some reason, people want to draw battle-lines: "if you're not with us (exclusively!), you're against us!" "And anyone against us must be a deluded moron, brainwashed by the facist state of NSS." To me, placing one's own "sense of judgment" above another is a bit elitist. And continuing to talk about it months after with the vitriol I've seen just isn't productive, and more than a bit bitter.

Which is why Frederick attempts to chime in on occasion and say, "W 7933410445127e69828c2.jpg  [email protected]þúZ¸@  Y u¬L42970dbd     @ÿúZ„A   Ú  †¬L502972b9   [email protected]þúZ„A   Y û¬L42970dbd   [email protected]öúZ©? ? Ó  Á®Ld9cb9fd0 1244814925499e0a697ed5c.jpg   @ÿú	ZˆA   È  g¯L44953e3e   < @öú
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## KevinKauai (Nov 13, 2005)

Markleford said:


> Well, in a sense you may have done some good, though indirectly. Your "episode" has underscored their "hidden" terms of service to *me*, and I'm considering taking action in a signifcantly more "even-keeled" vein. Wink Now, I can't prevent people from going against the terms of service when they know about it, but they should at least be presented with it without needing to run the gauntlet.


Well, I've rarely been accused of being "even-keeled", ya know. What can I say? I'm definitely of the "excitable artist" ilk. What's done is done, but I think NSS should have a huge banner on the top of every page that says something to the effect of "This is a commercial enterprise, of, for and by the owners of the various products who pay for space herein. Thou shalt NEVER speak ill of them nor question their tactics in ANY way!"

Now, THAT would be an honest approach!



Hardy Heen said:


> What they?re really arguing about is the difficulty of making ACCURATE PREMATURE ANNOUNCEMENTS!!!


Frank has definitely hit the nail on the head here. 

If you've heard the story about "progress reports", skip the rest of this, but it goes like this (and I may be paraphrasing from a very distant memory of this jewel): A division manager wanted to have monthly progress reports on what each of his areas was doing, so he put out an edict that each of his Group managers would submit their report at the end of the month. Each of those, figuring they'd need some time to condense and massage the reports from each of their sub-managers decided that those folks should have their reports to them 1 week before the end of the month. Each of the project managers for each of those managers similarly needed a week to prepare their consolidation from their workers so those reports had to be in 1 week before theirs were due to be forwarded upward, so they requested that each of the project members submit their reports 1 week ahead. THE RESULT: The workers in the "trenches" weren't reporting on what they HAD done in the month being summarized, but what they PREDICTED would be done during that period!

My real objection to the "early announcements" of the type that I specifically referred to from Garritan was that the length of time between announcement and delivery clearly indicates that what was announced were "intentions" with likely little reality or other R&D that had occurred other than "we intend to do Product A, Product B and Product C". I still believe that such announcements that have the effect of making potential customers believe that "your product is 'in the wings' and 'soon' to be launched" functions as an inherent "restraint of trade" by, in fact, encouraing "potential customers to think twice about buying a similar alternative".

 KevinKauai


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## KevinKauai (Nov 21, 2005)

*Who votes?*

I'm STILL surprised that this thread has had over 1500 views and only 40 votes on the Poll question. (Okay, it probably *is* a gratuous question.)

This thread can die now in peace. I've made my point and burned my own bridges (but it was a nice picture while it lasted!).

 KevinKauai


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