# Listening to Williams ROTS clips- and they're amazing!



## dcoscina (Apr 9, 2005)

Some pretty great stuff on the new soundtrack. The final cut, track 15 has a wonderful rendition of Luke's theme where Williams employs thematic immitation between the 1st and 2nd violins- excellent stuff. This score, of any of the prequels has Williams' '70's writing which makes sense because it is ostensibly the lead-in to Ep. 4. It's so wonderful to hear those themes I remember loving as a 9 year kid when I first saw Star Wars almost 30 years ago (time flies!).

And I won't be cruel: here's the link:

http://thepsychotic.web1000.com/

I had to download them as opposed to stream for some reason- darn eh?

Williams' Battle of the Heroes also uses a little of the Dies Irae which makes sense since ROTS deals with the obliteration of the Jedi so "Day of Wrath" is an appropriate piece of music to play.


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## Sid_Barnhoorn (Apr 9, 2005)

Cool man, thanks! I had them already, those tracks go fast now on the Star Wars forums like TheForce.Net but anyway, I got 4 tracks of ROTS and they're great. In "Anakin vs. Obi-Wan" Williams even addresses a section from Empire where Luke fights Vader, where Vader smashes the window and Luke is sucked out, just barely able to grab hold on a catwalk on the outerside.

Alot of old theme's are heard. There's Leia's and Luke's Theme and also more of the Force Theme.

Can't wait to see the movie! Little over a month to go!!! 

Cheers,


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## Trev Parks (Apr 9, 2005)

Yeah, its great stuff. Lots of the original material in there and I love that variation on Duel of the Fates in the second half of the space battle sequence. The battle of brothers sequence has a mass of energy to it - wonderful tension.

The only thing I'm not sure about is Luke's theme linking into the end credits. It just hops rather crudely from Gmin to Eb Major. In A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, the final music sweeps into the main theme gloriously and I was hoping for a similar elegant transition here. It could just be me but the end credit music does sound slower than normal which costs it a bit of punch.


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## Alex W (Apr 9, 2005)

god damn, that is AWESOME. Thanks heaps for the link. :D


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## dcoscina (Apr 9, 2005)

Trev Parks said:


> Yeah, its great stuff. Lots of the original material in there and I love that variation on Duel of the Fates in the second half of the space battle sequence. The battle of brothers sequence has a mass of energy to it - wonderful tension.
> 
> The only thing I'm not sure about is Luke's theme linking into the end credits. It just hops rather crudely from Gmin to Eb Major. In A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, the final music sweeps into the main theme gloriously and I was hoping for a similar elegant transition here. It could just be me but the end credit music does sound slower than normal which costs it a bit of punch.



Yes, Trev, you are right. It is a slower tempo. And I'm also not big on that transition from Luke's theme to the finale music. But there's so much other great stuff in there I can forgive Williams-I'm sure he's up nights worrying about my opinion


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## Trev Parks (Apr 9, 2005)

dcoscina said:


> Yes, Trev, you are right. It is a slower tempo. And I'm also not big on that transition from Luke's theme to the finale music. But there's so much other great stuff in there I can forgive Williams-I'm sure he's up nights worrying about my opinion



:D I think you might just be right!. We are but moths around a sun on this one.

You can almost feel some heavy objects hitting Obi-Wan, can't you!. I'm really pleased he's brought back so much Old Trilogy material it such a "naked" way; it helps bind this episode with the following ones.


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## Simon Ravn (Apr 9, 2005)

Great stuff (of course), although I believe Falcon1 could have done a better job. 

Looking forward to the final album in full quality. Hmmm what's up with Shawn Murphy - the timpanis sound like they are right in front of the conductor in much of it.


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## AndreasWaldetoft (Apr 9, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> Great stuff (of course), although I believe Falcon1 could have done a better job.



:lol: 

Sweet. Thanks for the links guys


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## Scott Rogers (Apr 9, 2005)

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## choc0thrax (Apr 9, 2005)

I have to agree, it's not at Falcon1 level but still it's pretty good.


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## Scott Rogers (Apr 9, 2005)

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## choc0thrax (Apr 9, 2005)

Now the whole soundtrack is up at http://thepsychotic.web1000.com/


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## Aaron Sapp (Apr 9, 2005)

Why hasn't the CSO ever been used for film scores? I think they probably have the greatest brass section in the U.S  Too pricy?


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## Scott Rogers (Apr 9, 2005)

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## dcoscina (Apr 9, 2005)

I'm listening to "Anakin's Betrayal" and it's got those vintage Williams' 7th chord 1st inversion voicings in the horns- right out of his '70's style. Lovin' this. I was so inspired by the first 4 tracks this morning that I started working on a quick scherzo for orchestra on Overture. Pity that EWQLSO Gold cannot be opened more than once as a stand alone. So I had to inport everything into Kontakt since it has 16 channels. Cannot wait for Overture 4 to come out!

p.s. Gold really kicks butt in the 11vln martele quick up and down. WOW. Try writing at a terse tempo (I wrote it in 2/2 with half note=85bpm). They sound exactly like real violins!!!


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## Sicmu (Apr 9, 2005)

Thank you very much for the link, it's amazing ! 
I'm listening right now and it sounds not so far from the the episode II : very rythmic and percussive action cues mixed with "peplumesque" love themes and some very classical use of the choirs (he called indeed the ghosts of Puccini and Verdi... ).
IMO I still think that his score for Episode V was the best.


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## Scott Rogers (Apr 9, 2005)

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## choc0thrax (Apr 9, 2005)

I love the music in Return Of The Jedi where Luke and Vader have their last fight. The Emperors music rules.


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## Aaron Sapp (Apr 9, 2005)

Yea, I've never been to a good concert before - only the ones here at the community college, and they love to butcher every piece of music they play. I've been thissss close to walking out on every one of em'. So why do I keep listening? I dunno - I live in the middle of nowhere and they're the only group around these parts. *whines*

I would love to attend a concert at the Disney hall... I'm sure it'd be quite the religious experience to hear the CSO play. Maybe I could plan my next visit to L.A close to one ~


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## handz (Apr 9, 2005)

WOW!!! Must listen to it as quick as possible!


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## IvanP (Apr 9, 2005)

Awesome stuff and also different stuff!!!

But what's the matter with the editing anyway... can't you hear the Crossfading right after the main titles? And also in ending credits... Or am I going nuts?

It's anyway incredible that this man, who must be 77 or 78 writes and conducts with such a fierce...

And I love the way he handled the ending credits.... sounds like an hommage to all his movies in a Korngold modulating stye


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## Simon Ravn (Apr 9, 2005)

IvanP I think Williams is 73 - not 78 But yes, it's awesome. It sounds like he is going for a "notes per minute" record in some of this :D 

The main theme is, like for Episode 2, tracked from Episode 1 recording - a pity they got so "lazy". The end credits are probably x-faded from various recordings, although I heard a report they recorded it all hmmm not sure. Haven't really heard it yet.


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## Alex W (Apr 9, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> I love the music in Return Of The Jedi where Luke and Vader have their last fight. The Emperors music rules.



The music for when Luke finally overpowers Vader at the end of that saber fight is my favourite music by Williams, period. So much raw emotion, it gives me goosebumps every time. Nothing in the prequels has done that for me, but that's because the prequels suck balls compared to the originals. :x

I'm sure I wont be alone in saying this, I actually went to see AOTC expecting it to be pretty crap (which it was), but didn't care because I got the chance to hear a new Starwars soundtrack. I enjoyed the music far more than the film.


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## choc0thrax (Apr 9, 2005)

Yeah I kinda get goosebumps when Luke is hiding in the dark and he yells "never!" and attacks Vader and the cool music starts.


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## Alex W (Apr 9, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> Yeah I kinda get goosebumps when Luke is hiding in the dark and he yells "never!" and attacks Vader and the cool music starts.



Yep, that's it eh. Awesome.


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## Scott Rogers (Apr 9, 2005)

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## José Herring (Apr 9, 2005)

Its that engineer that Williams uses. I was at a session(not with Williams but with another composer using Shawn) and I went out onto the stage and heard these wonderful french horn parts. Eight horns in unison. When I went back into the booth it was like mixed so far back that it lost all punch. I think he uses some sort of funky compression on all the brass and it looses that in your face quality. Don't know why he does it.

But, the soundtrack still sounds awesome. Undeniably great. And, I think we'll all be surprised by this movie. They fixed the acting and Anikan is actually doing really well from the clips I saw. And I talked to an acting buddy of mine who said that he's actually a wonderful actor. Couldn't tell that from the first movie but this one looks like he did a great job. And the story looks pretty compelling. 

I'm putting my vote in as best Star Wars ever according to the clips I saw and the music I'm hearing. IMO this could be Williams final masterpiece. Every great composer has a final masterpiece at the end of their run. I hope Williams has many more. But it's got that feeling of finality to it. You know like Beethoven 9 or Mahler 9 or Mozart Requim. I always wondered if those composers thought at the end of their final pieces the thought that they could do no better so why go on. Kind of morbid thought but that's the impression I'm getting from this score. Final perfection of a life long quest. 

Jose


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## dcoscina (Apr 9, 2005)

Jose do not speak of such dark things! Williams will live FOREVER. There, I've declared it! 

Seriously, I hope he's got many many more years of great music ahead of him. I think he's finishing up War of the Worlds which also looks to be an excellent film. Apaprently, Tom Cruise is NOT the hero- he's just a regular guy trying to keep his family alive. He doesn't come up with the miracle that saves the human race or anything like that. I think that's cool. Williams' score will most-likely follow suit from 1977 (Star Wars/Close Encounters) and 2002 (SW:AOTC and Minority Report) wherein he'll write a textural, more modernist score. Either way, we're all damn lucky this guy is writing at the level he is. I don't use this word much in the context of present day society, but Williams is a genius.


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## jc5 (Apr 9, 2005)

Hmm... I wanted to listen, but the link brought up some strange Walmart Fedex spam page, which then attacked me with popups after closing it?


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## Alex W (Apr 9, 2005)

josejherring said:


> And I talked to an acting buddy of mine who said that he's actually a wonderful actor.
> Jose



He's not bad. He did a pretty good job in "Life as a house" I think, but what let AOTC in particular down was the script. I can't remember the exact lines (Sid - can you help me out here?  ) but there's a romantic little bit where Anakin tells Padme that she has "beautiful smooth skin, not rough like sand." Or whatever it was... either way it was bloody terrible.

Also, towards the end of AOTC, Padme falls out of a flying ship (at speed) and tumbles down a big sand dune. She's moaning and groaning on the ground in pain, then 2 seconds later a clone bloke walks up to her. He asks if she's alright and she just jumps up straight away, says "yes" in a robotic monotone and they both run off. I distinctly remember laughing at this point, along with over half of the packed out cinema that I was in. :lol:

wtf mate?!


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## Niah (Apr 9, 2005)

All the prequels suck. 
I remember watching The Phantom Menace and thinking "boy, I sure hope the next episodes are a lot better than this". Then The Attack of The Clones come out and now I think that maybe Phantom Menace wasn't so bad after all. 
I mean Qui-Gon Jinn character was pretty cool, and who can forget that fight between Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Darth Maul? Classic.
Still, the original trilogy can't be match and specially with the new episodes looking more like video-games than films.

Anyway, it's still fun because you get a new soundtrack album.

And yes my favorite cue is luke vs vader in return of the jedi. Have to agree with everyone, breathtaking scene.


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## José Herring (Apr 9, 2005)

I guess the most dissapointing thing about the second prequil is that the movie had potential. It had real potential to be a great flick.

I agree that the script was flawed. I remember the scene with the cloan making aliens where kenobi is trying to make a deal with the blokes. I just remember thinking, "these are our mighty Jedi? They can't even B.S. their way through a lousy meeting!" Made our heros look like bafoons. Not cool in my book.

Jose


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## Stephen Rees (Apr 10, 2005)

Not mentioned so far, but my two favourite cues in the series are 'The Asteroid Field' in TESB and 'The Forest Battle' in ROTJ. I think those cues have more notes in them than all the cues that most other scores have put together he he.

Steve


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## José Herring (Apr 10, 2005)

Trev Parks said:


> The only thing I'm not sure about is Luke's theme linking into the end credits. It just hops rather crudely from Gmin to Eb Major. In A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, the final music sweeps into the main theme gloriously and I was hoping for a similar elegant transition here. It could just be me but the end credit music does sound slower than normal which costs it a bit of punch.



I don't know if you wrote this just to find something to criticize or what. But for crying out loud Gmin and Eb are the same key!! What hop?

If we start getting offended by modulations between two chords in the same diatonic scale there's not much left in music that we can do.

Jose


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## Simon Ravn (Apr 10, 2005)

Alex W said:


> josejherring said:
> 
> 
> > And I talked to an acting buddy of mine who said that he's actually a wonderful actor.
> ...



Oh yes - me too. That was pure "The A-Team" or taken out of an old Star Trek TV series. Really bad - typically Lucas these days


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## Evan Gamble (Apr 10, 2005)

is it legal to have the whole score for dowload? :?:
Either way its awesome and it sparked me to watch the original movies again, I wonder what it would be like for a kid to to see the star wars movies for the first time straight through?
I mean I grew up with them so I dont remember being surprised when I found out Vader was Lukes father...


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## Trev Parks (Apr 10, 2005)

josejherring said:


> I don't know if you wrote this just to find something to criticize or what. But for crying out loud Gmin and Eb are the same key!! What hop?
> 
> If we start getting offended by modulations between two chords in the same diatonic scale there's not much left in music that we can do.
> 
> Jose



EDIT: scrap what I'd written. It reads as patronising, which I don't mean to be.

I'm not looking for something to criticise, I just think it jumps akwardly from one to the other musically (I used the key structure simply to emphasise the bit I mean, I certainly don't find it offensive!) - and a few people have said the same thing to me. In the original film, that brilliant theme when they're walking down to get their medals flows effortlessly into the Main theme. In Empire and Clones, same thing, the end just morphs beautifully. Here we have the sumptuous Luke theme (apparently as Obi-Wan walks off into the twin sunset if reports are correct) and then it kind of jumps into the main theme. It'll probably look great so wont matter, I'd just hoped for more of a powerful sweep into the main theme, that's all. My problem


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## Simon Ravn (Apr 10, 2005)

Of course it's not legal But most of us will buy the soundtrack as soon as it comes out anyway. Also, this is in very bad quality. Wow, track 4(Anakins Betrayal) sounds like a really strong, emotional track. And oh my god, track 5. He is just adding 20% more to his new action track style from "Zam the Assassin". Woah.


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## Trev Parks (Apr 10, 2005)

Actually, I'm going to put up a vote for the recent additions to the saga. I do find the acting a bit wooden in places but, overall, I've really enjoyed the storyline and action. I'm glad Lucas didn't just repeat the old formula of wise cracking pirate, space princess and wookie!. It'll make their appearance after Sith that bit more fun.


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## handz (Apr 10, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> Of course it's not legal But most of us will buy the soundtrack as soon as it comes out anyway. Also, this is in very bad quality. Wow, track 4(Anakins Betrayal) sounds like a really strong, emotional track. And oh my god, track 5. He is just adding 20% more to his new action track style from "Zam the Assassin". Woah.



hehe :D 

I absolutely agree about track 4 & 5!

But - the whole thing sound to me, like someone said to lucas - use SW themes but not the style like you used in all other racks. The harmony and in some tracks is really not Starwarsish...dont know how to say that. 

Empire strikes back is still BEST soundtrack for me, IMHO. 8)


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## Scott Rogers (Apr 10, 2005)

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## Scott Rogers (Apr 10, 2005)

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## Simon Ravn (Apr 10, 2005)

handz said:


> Simon Ravn said:
> 
> 
> > Of course it's not legal But most of us will buy the soundtrack as soon as it comes out anyway. Also, this is in very bad quality. Wow, track 4(Anakins Betrayal) sounds like a really strong, emotional track. And oh my god, track 5. He is just adding 20% more to his new action track style from "Zam the Assassin". Woah.
> ...



It's great with that sort of conclusions, after about 1 listen to the new score (compared to a 20-year relationship to the old one), and no knowledge about the music's connection to the movie whatsoever :twisted:


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## dcoscina (Apr 10, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> handz said:
> 
> 
> > Simon Ravn said:
> ...



Simon, you couldn't be more right! Watch the film first, then make your judgements.


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## Sicmu (Apr 10, 2005)

I agree that the score of episode V is the best to date and upon two listenings of episode III there is no reason to change my mind. I speak from a purely musical point of view but it's possible with JW's music : it's so symphonic or operatic that most of the time the music can be fully appreciated just for itself.
It seems that JW decided to remain very classical in its approach despite the use of bongos and complex rythms. The Episode V orchestration was more inventive and bold (Battle in the snow) from the very beginning to the very end, thanks to Herbert Spencer. 
The score was also more powerful because of the new and catchy themes, it was JW at his apex and I have to admit that , while I'm a huge fan of JW having deconstructed so many of his scores on staff paper, the flame creativity of the 70' and 80' has dimned.


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## choc0thrax (Apr 10, 2005)

Listening to the new music makes me want to see the movie more than I did before. I think my favourite track so far is 14.


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## lux (Apr 10, 2005)

listening to those tracks, I'm at same opinion as Handz and Alex.
Empire strikes back is quite unreachable imho. ESB is just on same league as Jaws in my honest preferences.

Luca


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## Simon Ravn (Apr 10, 2005)

Sicmu, Williams does his own orchestrations He only hires orchestrators on almost all of his scores, due to deadlines and time restrictions so they can prepare the final scores for him.


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## José Herring (Apr 10, 2005)

Simon,

I know. I can't believe that some people still think that Williams doesn't orchestrate his own stuff. :roll: I mean listen to the music. You have to know what you're doing to write that kind of music. He's a better orchestrator than the people he hires to orchestrate for him! He started his career by orchestrating for Bernard Hermann. 

That Williams sound is his own. It's not the Spencer sound.

If it was just the orchestrator then everybody would be writing music that well. He's got a lot of imitators but no equals.

Jose


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## handz (Apr 10, 2005)

dcoscina said:


> Simon Ravn said:
> 
> 
> > handz said:
> ...


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## Sicmu (Apr 10, 2005)

Right, Williams writes a short score on ten or fourteen staves with a lot of details about instrumentation but it was the job of the legendary Herbert Spencer (among others) to expand this to 30-35 staves, basically the main instrumentation is already done but there is the special touch of the orchestrator who knows what instrument doubling will sound better, what combination of divided strings will make the difference etc..., it's something they know by heart and it was almost a rule in Hollywood : Korngold with Friedhoffer is maybe the best example of perfect collaboration, but sometimes it doesn't work. 
Working with samples is IMO not the best way to learn how it should sound without a listen and I confess that sometimes I can't predict how it will sound just reading the score, but it's comforting to listen to the alternate takes of the first SW main title : even JW and his team didnt know exactly what woodwind line could sound the best for the bridge!


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## Scott Rogers (Apr 10, 2005)

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## Scott Rogers (Apr 10, 2005)

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## Trev Parks (Apr 10, 2005)

Scott Rogers said:


> Of course, the argument ended when I showed him some original JW sketches.



You have copies of some of his sketches?. Now those I'd love to see.

I recall reading an interview with Herb Spencer and he said Williams indicates most things in his short scores. HS said he knows how to compose so he expects the composers to know how to orchestrate.


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## Evan Gamble (Apr 10, 2005)

Scott Rogers said:


> I think Lucas tried to do too much in these prequels. And by "do too much", I mean he tried to do too many things himself. He should've written the basic story line and produced, but then gotten someone like Lawrence Kasdan to write the actual screenplay. We'd have gotten far better dialogue, plot, and pacing, and maybe Jar Jar Binks would never have seen the light of day.
> 
> Then to direct, he should've gotten Spielberg. Enough said there I think.
> 
> And there were some casting problems too. In both films, I think the casting of Anakin was way off, and a big detriment. I mean, the guy playing the teenage Anakin in AOTC was awful, and besides that, you need someone with real gravitas for that role. And though Natalie Portman had an odd role in the first film, I could watch her read from a phone book and wouldn't care. She's quite fetching.



Can Someone give me an AMEN?! AMEN...I've been saying this since episode 1 came out..


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## José Herring (Apr 10, 2005)

Scott Rogers said:


> It started when I chuckled after he told me that Elfman's use of brass was better than JW's use of brass. I told him, first of all, that Elfman's "use of brass" is more Steve Bartek and Shirley Walker than it is Elfman.



To second this point I was talking to one of Elfman's orchestrators about his Mission Imp. score. I asked the orchestrator what he exactly did in the score. He said this, " You know when the main theme comes up?" I said yeah. He said, " I wrote all the cues that had the main theme in it".

I didn't see the movie but I'm thinking...hmmm... that's at least the opening credits, the ending credits, the action scenes towards the climax ect.

It's like well then, what did the composer actually write? 

So I went out and downloaded the score from a sight. Then I knew. Yeah, the composer wrote the bongo and synth parts that go around the main themes.

Geeezzzzz.

Jose


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## Aaron Sapp (Apr 10, 2005)

I really enjoyed Episode 1, and though many disagree, I thought it was a tremendous film. Reallly enjoyed it, one of my favorite SW films. 

Then Episode 2 came out. What a hack job of a film. Poor dialogue ("your hands are soft, not like sand, which is rough???" - or something like that), and the horrific acting of teenage Anni. Though in all fairness, the script didn't help him at all. 

They reused so much music from Episode 1 in AOTC. What the hell! I saw the film the first showing, 12 AM with a buddy, thought it'd be fun. I ended up laughing at a lot of the film. I mean some serious chuckling. Yoda is now computer generated. And he fights like a ninja?!

I really hope Episode 3 makes up for 2.


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## Scott Rogers (Apr 10, 2005)

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## Frederick Russ (Apr 10, 2005)

Aaron Sapp said:


> What a hack job of a film.



Agreed. The story line of Ep II seemed really B quality and like they tried to make up for it with special effects.

To me the cool things that came out of Ep II were JW's Jango's Escape and Zam the Assassin cues. I like JW's new action sequences a lot.


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## Stephen Rees (Apr 10, 2005)

I think you're all forgetting that AOTC was surely saved by the side splitting antics of the two droids with their feisty sense of humour :roll:

Christopher Lee proved once again what a class act he is. A bit like Alec Guiness in the first trilogy, he can take any line and make it sound like poetry. 'Mos Eisley. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.'. How many people could pull that line off? Genius!

Steve


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## Trev Parks (Apr 10, 2005)

The chase through Coruscant, Jango and Obi-Wan, the slaughter of the sandpeople, the arena sequence......there's plenty in Clones that keeps me on the edge of my seat. Where it failed was in the romance scenes with Anakin and Padme. I never really feel there's anything real and sincere between them; its just a series of wooden cliches akwardly stitched together to lead us to an unbelievable wedding at the end. It could have been so much better. But then, I still enjoy the movie as a whole so what the hell.

Aaron, you seriously didn't like to see Yoda spin like Sonic?!. Funny and hyper-manic stuff - I love it. Expect it again towards the end of the next film when he chases Sidious with his lightsabre.


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## Scott Rogers (Apr 10, 2005)

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## choc0thrax (Apr 10, 2005)

I remember back in 1999 I was almost high from watching the fight with Darth Maul near the end of the Phantom Menace. That fight would be nowhere near as good without Duel Of The Fates! I only watched about half of AOTC cause of how bad the previews looked. Computerized Yoda flying around fighting...no thanks. Old midget puppet yoda may be old technology but I prefer it over the new one.


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## handz (Apr 11, 2005)

Hmm :cry: 

Listened 20x or more times... 
And must to say - worst SW soundtrack ever. All at JW czech fanclub sharing opinion that Williams is really losing his powers. And it scares me a bit.


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## choc0thrax (Apr 11, 2005)

What bothers me is it doesn't really have a stand-out new memorable theme. There was Duel of the Fates in EP1 and Across The Stars from EP2.


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## Simon Ravn (Apr 11, 2005)

handz said:


> Hmm :cry:
> 
> Listened 20x or more times...
> And must to say - worst SW soundtrack ever. All at JW czech fanclub sharing opinion that Williams is really losing his powers. And it scares me a bit.



LOL - that settles it. The Czech fanclub agrees :lol:


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## handz (Apr 12, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> What bothers me is it doesn't really have a stand-out new memorable theme. There was Duel of the Fates in EP1 and Across The Stars from EP2.



Sorry but I dont think that Duel is a classical SW theme....in EP1 the theme is Anakins theme IMHO.


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## Ed (Apr 12, 2005)

handz said:


> choc0thrax said:
> 
> 
> > What bothers me is it doesn't really have a stand-out new memorable theme. There was Duel of the Fates in EP1 and Across The Stars from EP2.
> ...



No way, Id say that was a defintely a secondary theme!


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## choc0thrax (Apr 12, 2005)

Well I think Duel of the fates is better.


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## Alex W (Apr 12, 2005)

handz said:


> Hmm :cry:
> 
> Listened 20x or more times...
> And must to say - worst SW soundtrack ever. All at JW czech fanclub sharing opinion that Williams is really losing his powers. And it scares me a bit.



I don't agree.

Besides, I think that anyone who has written 18 hours of Starwars music has the right to get a bit uninspired by the time they reach the 15th hour or so.

The point also remains that even if John Williams goes a bit downhill from here on in; even if it gets to the point where he is half the composer that he was in 1977, he'll still be 10 times better than everyone else.


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## Niah (Apr 12, 2005)

I wouldn't be suprise if williams lost a little bit of his usual inspiration for this new star wars trilogy.
Who gets inspired by Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones anyway?


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## José Herring (Apr 12, 2005)

Alex W said:


> handz said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm :cry:
> ...



I always say he's a victum of his own success. He's by far in a league of his own and has been for about 35 years. But he always gets compared to his earlier works.

What he's doing now is fantastic. To say it's better or worse than what he did 25 years ago is not a fair comparison. I talked to a twelve year old kid once and he thought that the new Star Wars and Williams score was much better than the old work. He thought the old stuff sounded too old fashion.

I mean how many of us thought that are parents music sounded old fashion? So it's really a matter of perspective.

But as far as orchestration and use of harmony and technically speaking. He's still in a league of his own as far as mainstream film composers are concerned.

Jose


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## Alex W (Apr 12, 2005)

Niah said:


> I wouldn't be suprise if williams lost a little bit of his usual inspiration for this new star wars trilogy.
> Who gets inspired by Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones anyway?



pre cisely


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## dcoscina (Apr 12, 2005)

Right on Jose and Alex W! Williams has shown us he's as good a composer as he was 20 years ago with gems like Minority Report (listen to "Everybody Runs" with its fast celli ostinato and off rhythm brass hits- brilliant!) or Angela's Ashes which may as well be a symphonic poem because it plays so well on its own. Or the Adams-styled minimalism in A.I. or the fluid writing in Harry Potter series. Perhaps Williams' is just out of truly original ideas for a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. I think he's afforded that right. And besides, I've been listening to ROTS non-stop and most of it is pretty friggin' amazing. Like Alex said, most composers in Hollywood could only HOPE to be John Williams. He is in a class of his own.


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## Ed (Apr 12, 2005)

josejherring said:


> What he's doing now is fantastic. To say it's better or worse than what he did 25 years ago is not a fair comparison. I talked to a twelve year old kid once and he thought that the new Star Wars and Williams score was much better than the old work. He thought the old stuff sounded too old fashion.



Id like to know what is so different in those old SW scores to warrent calling them old fashioned. 

Of course whats more likely is he thinks the actual -film- is old fashioned, and so thinks the music is with no good reason.


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## jc5 (Apr 12, 2005)

Ed said:


> josejherring said:
> 
> 
> > What he's doing now is fantastic. To say it's better or worse than what he did 25 years ago is not a fair comparison. I talked to a twelve year old kid once and he thought that the new Star Wars and Williams score was much better than the old work. He thought the old stuff sounded too old fashion.
> ...



Quite possibly.
To me, there is no such thing as 'old fashioned' in music really - there is only well done, and poorly done. :wink:


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## handz (Apr 12, 2005)

Im realy dissapointed by RotS. For example Choir - never was part of SW music, and I believe this is a LOTR trend. You could also hear many LOTR like passages in RotS. You could hear Zimmer like passages...thats insane. There isnt any great theme. There isnt Williams?s classical SW style he used. I really dont like that.

Heh OLD scores oldfashoned? They are much more contemporary than this sterile music IMHO. But I think it is a trend. What is most favorite composer right now? Zimmer? Shore? (many people start listening soundtracks thanks to them) And if RotS is more similiar to music of that guys, I believe that there will be many people that will love it.


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## José Herring (Apr 12, 2005)

My only point was that it's unfair to compare him to what he did before as the Czechs have. He was amazing 35 years ago. He's still amazing now. 

Somebody mentioned AI. I think this is one of his most overlooked scores. That music to the helicopter ride into New York City :D. I had to pick my jaw up off the floor. And many of the cues after that. 8) No he hasn't lost his touch. In many ways he's just begining. 

Jose


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## Simon Ravn (Apr 12, 2005)

I agree. His style has changed, but that's a good thing. I know some people just basically want him to do Raiders again and again - I am not one of those people. We already have Raiders - give me something else. Which is what Williams has continued to do all the way through his career. Every new score he does have amazing stuff. If I had to mention ONE score that he did recently which doesn't really do much for me, it has to be Terminal. Never been much of an accordion fan anyway 

Jose - yes - that cue is wonderful, when the chopper rises in front of the weeping lions. Also the long choir cue when you fly over the ice towards the end is amazing.


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## choc0thrax (Apr 13, 2005)

I didn't even bother to d/l any tracks from Terminal, now that says something!


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