# What the hell is wrong with people?



## dcoscina (Apr 10, 2011)

Okay, I have to relate this story. I posted some Symphobia 2 demos on YouTube because people were bugging me to follow up my Symphobia 1 demo. Fine. So I did a realtime improvised demo of some of the Multis. Then I get requests to do instruments. Fine, I do instruments. 

I receive a personal message this evening from someone in South East Asia claiming they own EWQLSO Gold and Cinematic Strings (good libraries!) but don't have enough $$$ to buy Symphobia 1 and asked me to copy my discs and ship them to them. Of course they say they'd be kind enough to pay for the price of shipping and the blank DVDs. What a sport! 

Needless to say, while I felt compelled to tell this kid (and I'm sure it is a kid because no one from my generation would have the balls to make such an idiotic request) to fuck off, I just said he has two choices: Save or buy the library on CC and pay the interest in monthly instalments (which is what I'm doing). 

I wouldn't be so steamed but this is the SECOND time some idiot has thought it perfectly all right to make such a dumbass request. Like what would I have to gain in this? 

The first time BTW such a request was made to me on THIS FORUM via PM. I told the person never to ask me that again or else I'd report him to Frederick.

Sheesh.... :roll:


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## RiffWraith (Apr 10, 2011)

This has happened to me too, and I am sure others as well. It's part of the world we live in. 

"and I'm sure it is a kid because no one from my generation would have the balls to make such an idiotic request"

Dont be so sure about that.

BTW - you see my piracy "attitude" thread from about a month ago? Read some of those comments, and then come back and ask What the hell is wrong with people.

Cheers.


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## JonFairhurst (Apr 10, 2011)

Part of my job is to contribute to an international standards development organization. At one plenary meeting, the team I had led had just completed development of a standard, including Blu-ray Discs and DVD. I brought my personal copy to show to the audience. The organization owns the copyright and if you want a copy of the standard, you buy it.

Moments after the successful publication was announced, we took a coffee break a woman from SE Asia asked if she could show the package to her colleagues from her national delegation. No sooner than she brought the package to her seat, she put the first of four discs into her laptop to copy. Talk about brazen!

That said, there is a different ethos in some parts of the world regarding intellectual property. I'm confident that she did not see herself as a thief.


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## nikolas (Apr 10, 2011)

This has happened to me, but in a private mail, not in any forum. I did reply that I couldn't do that, only from an ethical point of view, but from a practical as well (since the software is watermarked with my name on). I did suggest several options, which not sure if he took, but he did say thank you at least... ^_^


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## Guy Bacos (Apr 10, 2011)

Ask him for $50.00 and send him a blank DVD.


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## noiseboyuk (Apr 11, 2011)

Guy Bacos @ Mon Apr 11 said:


> Ask him for $50.00 and send him a blank DVD.



Love it!

OK, I'll have a stab at answering the question here. I think there are a few forces at work. First, there has been an increasing tendency to separate "us" and "them" - "us" being ordinary people, "them" is anyone in power or authority (including companies and corporations). It's like a very twisted and cynical communism. In this world view, we're all in it together to look out for each other, all at the expense of those above... a sort of honour among thieves. Peer to peer, by its very nature, is about people helping each other (albeit with no personal effort or barely any sacrifice). Because a) there are so many people doing it which normalises it and b) there is no personal connection between themselves and anyone affected, it becomes a default mindset - all companies, governments, doctors, scientists, politicians etc are there to pull the wool over our eyes and line their own pockets. The ubiquity in ridiculous conspiracy theories, disbelief in the science of climate change etc etc all stem from the same basic source - we, as people, are getting shafted, so we'll all look out for one another and sod those in charge who all exist to simply look after their own interests. Once upon a time, our elders were respected. With good reason, we no longer do so, but have now swung so far the opposite way that every single "authority" figure, no matter how honest or benign, is part of a system designed to make ordinary people's lives a misery. I don't think people differentiate between a politician, a scientist or a CEO.

I think the second element at work is an extreme variant of capitalism. The market ideology of the past 30 years has become twisted into a sense of entitlement, primarily because of the availability of cheap credit. No need to save - just own right now. And because technology has massively extended this "right to own" to include any downloadable commodity by way of illegal downloading, it has become a feedback effect, massively increasing the public's sense of entitlement.

Finally, technology and clever economics has allowed a legitimate and massive free industry to thrive. Google, youtube, facebook, picassa, Open Office... all free, all very useful in people's lives. Free has become an expectation, not an occasional gift.

Add all that up, and I think that's what's wrong with people....


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## lux (Apr 11, 2011)

c'mon guys, its just a classic request, cant see what all the fuss is about. Guys asking for pirated cd's arent exactly the ninth wonder nor a sign of the times.


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## noiseboyuk (Apr 11, 2011)

lux @ Mon Apr 11 said:


> c'mon guys, its just a classic request, cant see what all the fuss is about. Guys asking for pirated cd's arent exactly the ninth wonder nor a sign of the times.



But a sign of the times is EXACTLY what it is. How did we get here?


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## lux (Apr 11, 2011)

in the early '80 ten years old kids used to meet together and duplicated Vic20/C64 tapes using a double deck recorder to have a couple more games to have fun with.

Thats why I'm afraid the research about how we got here could take longer than expected


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## Lex (Apr 11, 2011)

lux @ Mon Apr 11 said:


> in the early '80 ten years old kids used to meet together and duplicated Vic20/C64 tapes using a double deck recorder to have a couple more games to have fun with.
> 
> Thats why I'm afraid the research about how we got here could take longer than expected



+1


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## noiseboyuk (Apr 11, 2011)

lux @ Mon Apr 11 said:


> in the early '80 ten years old kids used to meet together and duplicated Vic20/C64 tapes using a double deck recorder to have a couple more games to have fun with.



..an excellent example of how it started!


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## lux (Apr 11, 2011)

ok, even assuming it started there, what it has to do with people being wrong?


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## noiseboyuk (Apr 11, 2011)

lux @ Mon Apr 11 said:


> ok, even assuming it started there, what it has to do with people being wrong?



Er... is this a trick question?

Let me simplify. Theft has become increasingly normalised... how?


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## TheUnfinished (Apr 11, 2011)

It's become easier?

In all seriousness, it's always been human nature that a certain amount of morality is linked to the likelihood of 'getting away with it'.


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## noiseboyuk (Apr 11, 2011)

TheUnfinished @ Mon Apr 11 said:


> It's become easier?
> 
> In all seriousness, it's always been human nature that a certain amount of morality is linked to the likelihood of 'getting away with it'.



Sure it's easier and I said in my post that's certainly a factor, but that alone doesn't explain the OP. It's not just a case of "getting away with it", it's a case of actually approaching someone who's paid for something, and thinking nothing of asking for a free copy. It's a big cultural shift.


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## dpasdernick (Apr 12, 2011)

lux @ Mon Apr 11 said:


> ok, even assuming it started there, what it has to do with people being wrong?



So in your opinion the kid was totally fine with his request? He was asking someone to break the law on his behalf and you ask "what it has to do with people being wrong" The kid was dead wrong. No question. No debate.


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## nikolas (Apr 12, 2011)

dpasdernick: The idea is that some people don't know that this action (piracy) IS breaking the law! When I was growing up here in Greece (in the late 80s), there were tons of stores offering pirated copies of games... I had absolutely no idea it was wrong, or illegal, so I just bought a few there. I stopped when some didn't work, and decided to stick to buying original ones, or copying games from friends (for free). It's a very simple mentality that can't go away without education and information.


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## lux (Apr 12, 2011)

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## Ed (Apr 13, 2011)

dcoscina @ Sun Apr 10 said:


> I receive a personal message this evening from someone in South East Asia claiming they own EWQLSO Gold and Cinematic Strings (good libraries!) but don't have enough $$$ to buy Symphobia 1 and asked me to copy my discs and ship them to them. Of course they say they'd be kind enough to pay for the price of shipping and the blank DVDs. What a sport!



lol, its especially funny because even if he had a copy he couldn't use it without an authorisation.


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## Ed (Apr 13, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Mon Apr 11 said:


> lux @ Mon Apr 11 said:
> 
> 
> > in the early '80 ten years old kids used to meet together and duplicated Vic20/C64 tapes using a double deck recorder to have a couple more games to have fun with.
> ...



Actually its probably more obvious than that. We used to often share video tapes, music, we would record music off the raido, we would give a copy to a friend. Not so bad but then the internet happened and Napster came along and...


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## mverta (Apr 13, 2011)

I've been giving this sort of thing a lot of thought recently, as I have a 7-month old son who is watching everything I do and listening to every word I say. With issues this complex, I prefer to choose the path of simplicity.

My feeling is: yes, if you copy a single song, even a single piece of software, you're probably not bankrupting a company or destroying the world. Yes, you might be in a country where IP laws don't stand a chance because the population isn't even allowed to have their own _thoughts_ let alone any real property. Yes, it might be out of good intention, and with heart-felt intent to spread joy. Yes, the product might be overpriced or expensive. Yes, you might have to wait a really long time to be able to afford it.

But stealing is wrong so don't do it. Just don't do it. Feel the pride of having patience, having earned something, and not being the same asshole the other 90-some% of the population is.

That was basically the way my mom and dad taught me, and it worked. We can't fix society, but we can be the change, and teach our children the value of being patient when feeling impatient, working hard when feeling lazy, and doing the right thing when able to get away with doing otherwise. You can't hide from the man in the mirror.


_Mike


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## NYC Composer (Apr 14, 2011)

....and be the squeaky wheel. When people talk about it, brag about their 50,000 track mp3 collections, ask them if they paid for them, and if they are blithe about their larceny, make a point of saying you don't agree and don't approve.

I'm all for tolerance, but not about blatant theft.


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## dcoscina (Apr 14, 2011)

Every song in my iTunes library was purchased. Same for software. In my PC days, I had a cracked version of Sonar 2.2 for a while but bought it after a month since I felt bad about it. That's about it for me. Everything since then has been bought and I have the bloody debt to show for it!


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## noiseboyuk (Apr 14, 2011)

I was given a hooky mp3 album a couple of months ago - it felt too rude to throw it back in their face! However I liked it and then bought it legit. So I am a good boy. I will confess I have one exception - TV shows on channels I've paid for, on a series that I am watching, where (typically) the PVR doesn't record it. Missing one crucial episode of a series you've paid for.... surely that's allowed? (ducks...)


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## dcoscina (Apr 14, 2011)

I remember when Michael Giacchino's ROAR was only available on the US iTunes site. A fellow film score friend emailed me a copy but as soon as it was available in Canada I bought it myself. I don't own any bootleg CDs as far as I know. I think the Dragonslayer CD I bought from Monsters in Motion was a boot though- luckily La La Land re-released it and I snatched it up ASAP.


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## NYC Composer (Apr 14, 2011)

I doubt anyone is 100% pristine here-I am not. As time goes on, though, I'm more and more stringent. I'm not looking for people in general to be pristine either-what galls me is when they boast of having stolen vast amounts of copyrighted materials and/or intellectual property. When they speak about it within my hearing, they quickly find me tiresome and preachy on the subject, which is precisely my intent.


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## uselessmind (Apr 14, 2011)

mverta @ Wed Apr 13 said:


> But stealing is wrong ....



If thats really the case, why do young people grow up in a world where it seems to be ultimate goal and only worthwhile pursuit to screw other people for your own materialistic gain if you can get away with it ?

And what behaviour are they supposed to learn from that ?


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## snowleopard (Apr 14, 2011)

If this were to happen to me, I'd write saying I'm in the Netherlands and to send the money, plus your full name and address to: 

Catharijnesteeg 6
3512 NZ Utrecht
The Netherlands

(This is the address for Project Sam).


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