# Samples Spotlight - Orchestral Tools' Berlin Brass Review



## The Darris (Oct 31, 2016)

Hey Everyone!!

I've just uploaded and published my review for Berlin Brass. At the beginning of this video, I briefly explain some of my performance limitations with this library. Keep in mind, I use a modest system with 32gb of RAM. With that said, I failed to make my point that, due to the size and content of this library, it's my opinion that there should have been a mixed microphone setting. As always, I hope you find this review useful as the final days of the pre-sale pricing are upon us. Thanks for watching and take care.

-C

​
I've made some amendments to the video with annotations to clarify any word usage that may have been confusing or inaccurate.

*Note 1:* _Load Times: In the review, I mentioned that I was working with all the multi and legato patches loaded due to the time it takes to load. This comment wasn't directed at Berlin Brass but rather the actual time it would have taken to individually load each patch during the review. Likewise, loading patches in Kontakt while screen casting causes audio glitches and drops. So, I sought to avoid this. The load times in Berlin Brass, when batch re-saved are minuscule. _

*Note 2:* _Ram Usage. As specified earlier in this thread. The issue of how much ram Kontakt was using was exclusive during the recording of my review. I've since re-tested the same setup and Kontakt only uses 8 gb when loading all multi and legato patches while having all samples purged._

*Note 3:* _Sample loading issues when trying to playback, especially the tempo lock repetitions. This is not a bug in Berlin Brass but a side-effect of trying to playback tempo locked samples that are purged. Any library will do this, even if you are running on a Solid State drive, as I was with this library. _

*Note 4:* _There was no issue with the Tuba Legato patch. I accidentally selected Midi Ch. B1 instead of A1 and just didn't catch it. If you stopped watching the video there, I go back and load it up again and it works as advertised. _


----------



## 5Lives (Oct 31, 2016)

So - would you recommend this or Spitfire personally?


----------



## The Darris (Oct 31, 2016)

5Lives said:


> So - would you recommend this or Spitfire personally?


Depends on your system to be honest. Spitfire is certainly more usable for me at the moment and I find the sound great. However, Berlin Brass has a sound that is more clear to me which certainly gives me more flexibility in the end. Berlin Brass has more capabilities to build different ensembles in very logical way that is pretty awesome where as Spitfire only has the 1 soloist per section compared to having each player available in Berlin Brass. 

If I had to choose between the two I'd go for Spitfire Brass. It has more instruments available (Cimbassi, Contrabass Trombone, etc) not to mention there are more articulations like Mutes, Falls, and Rips. Also, the price is certainly more affordable. Basically nearly $875 vs. $610. Berlin Brass feels like it was sampled more deeply, ie; more dynamics and round robins so the price is justifiable but others may disagree. 

I hope my thoughts are helpful, I know the Brass options available right now are difficult to choose from. I'm fortunate enough to receive these products for free but I also try to be as fair and transparent when I review them. Berlin Brass is a great library but it's not without its downsides which the biggest being system performance issues, especially RAM usage. I wouldn't be so negative about it but it was the fact that the scripting and ram usage without any samples loaded was making my single standalone instance of Kontakt use up around 12 gb which tells me that Orchestral Tools really needs to work on CAPSULE some more and make it more efficient. I had the same exact setup used in my review of Spitfire's Brass which used up 7gb of RAM total, and that was with one mic loaded for each so they weren't even purged like I had to do with Berlin Brass. Anyway, I've babbled on long enough. Maybe if VisionDAW wants me to review one of their builds, I would be able to run Berlin Brass and I could look past that. Until I have a few thousand to spend on a new system, I'm stuck with the build I did 5 years ago. I've maxed it out as much as I've could and I am still able to run the mass majority of libraries being released. 

Best,

C


----------



## tonaliszt (Oct 31, 2016)

The Darris said:


> scripting and ram usage without any samples loaded was making my single standalone instance of Kontakt use up around 12 gb


Whaaat? Surely you must mean with one mic position? How could it possibly take up that much space from graphics and scripts?


----------



## The Darris (Oct 31, 2016)

n.h said:


> Whaaat? Surely you must mean with one mic position? How could it possibly take up that much space from graphics and scripts?


Nope, that was with everything purged from my instance that I used in the review. I show the Engine Memory page that said nearly 5gb was being used of "object memory" which is everything but samples. However, the actual instance of Kontakt, via the task manager, was using approximately 12 gb of memory without any samples loaded.

[Edit: Since the review, I've loaded up the same configuration and the Kontakt instance was using just over 8gb instead of 12. I don't know what the discrepancy was between then and now.]


----------



## 5Lives (Oct 31, 2016)

Thanks for your thoughts! So the main con you found in BB was the resource usage? A number have folks have commented on the inconsistent samples, programming, etc. Did you find that? I enjoyed your Spitfire review as well - thanks for doing these!


----------



## The Darris (Oct 31, 2016)

5Lives said:


> Thanks for your thoughts! So the main con you found in BB was the resource usage? A number have folks have commented on the inconsistent samples, programming, etc. Did you find that? I enjoyed your Spitfire review as well - thanks for doing these!


Yes, I mentioned those inconsistencies in my review but those, to me, we're less concerning compared to the system usage and ram management problems I experienced. The issues others have raised seem easier to fix than what issues are in CAPSULE that have been there for months now.

-C


----------



## Lawson. (Oct 31, 2016)

5Lives said:


> So - would you recommend this or Spitfire personally?



I would get both!  They both have very different sounds and are useful in different applications. Berlin Brass has a clearer and tighter sound thanks to Teldex, as well as the most wonderful ability to build your own sections. Every articulation is consistent, and the shorts sound fantastic.

Spitfire has more instruments though pretty inconsistent articulations. You can also have larger unison-sampled (6 horns, 6 trumpets, etc.) section sizes; however you don't have multiple different solo instruments to build your own section with, only a single solo. AIR sounds great on some things and doesn't on others. The shorts aren't as good IMO, but there are some nice multi-tongued articulations which can help make up for it a bit in some cases.

Both have multiple mic positions, lovely tones, and enough articulations for most of your needs.

If I had to pick one, I'd go with Berlin Brass simply because I LOVEEEEEE being able to write individual brass lines with different players. Like I said, though, both work well for their own uses. I do tend to lean towards BBR more, but I also just like having consistency in the room (I have a complete Teldex orchestra but only a partial AIR one).

Regarding RAM, I have never had an issue whatsoever with either. On the other hand, I have 128GB RAM in my workstation, so I've NEVER actually had a RAM issue with a library.

[Note: I have received free products from Spitfire Audio and Orchestral Tools]


----------



## OT_Tobias (Oct 31, 2016)

I usually make it a habit not to comment on Sample Talk threads, but since a number of users reached out, I will make an exception: We do not see the RAM usage Chris reports here and not a single user has complained about this.
I have attached a screenshot of Kontakt with all Multis loaded fully purged (as Chris does in his video). As you can see it is 6.25 GB of Kontakt memory, not 12.

It is true that the power of Capsule comes at the cost of some RAM, but not by far to the extent Chris is suggesting here. I think this is a glitch on Chris' system, which I was unaware of. I did not find any emails enquiring about this.

I will investigate this and as our developers what could be causing this excessive RAM usage, but just wanted to let you know that this is something we have never seen and that of course it is NOT normal.


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Nov 1, 2016)

Hmmm... just to be sure, @OT_Tobias can send me a copy of the library and I'll confirm my RAM usage.

... just to be sure.


----------



## The Darris (Nov 1, 2016)

I've emailed you @OT_Tobias in response to this thread and my issue. Just to be clear for everyone else on here. My setup and issue was not just with the Multis but also including the Legato patches as well. The numbers I've quoted were from my recording during the review. After setting up the same configuration, something has changed. Instead of ~12gb being used by kontakt, I am now at 8gb. This is way better but something is obviously wrong for the previous situation as noted in my review and this thread. I do not go out of my way to spread false information so I hope others do not see this as such. Again, I've reached out to OT Support and hope to find a solution to what is hopefully just a problem for ME. I also hope any users out there can look into this as well and see if they are experiencing similar numbers as me so I don't feel like a crazy person anymore!! Hahaha.  

Anyway, as stated in my review and earlier, this was my biggest issue which hopefully is limited to me. If that is the case, than everything else stands. Berlin Brass sounds great, performs well, and offers an extensive list of articulations that are consistent for each instrument.

Best,

Chris


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

Jdiggity1 said:


> Hmmm... just to be sure, @OT_Tobias can send me a copy of the library and I'll confirm my RAM usage.
> 
> ... just to be sure.



LOL. These kids sure have it figured out, don't they. Makes sense to establish oneself as a "reviewer" if the libraries keep rolling in for free.


----------



## FriFlo (Nov 1, 2016)

I find the comparison that SF brass is more complete and less expensive not really fair, to be honest!
1) Price: SF sold the individual BML brass modules for quite a lot more than they are offered now, so it is just another price policy. With OT you get a fixed price without any additional sales happening except for the intro offer. SF seems to bundle all their small volumes in big bundles, similar to how East West does it: early customers pay a lot more and often pay upgrade fees on top of that in order to get continued updates. Also, you only compared SF brass price without the mic expansions! Sure, some people will probably not need it, but it is not the full product, actually ...
2) Content: Yes, Berlin Brass doesn't have Cimbassos and what not ... It also does not have mutes, as those will be a dedicated expansion module. The SF mutes are included, but they are very sparse and can only be applied in some areas, where you might need mutes.
And you are completely missing to mention, that the existing articulation in Berlin Brass are quite a bit more complete than those of SF Brass. You did mention the fact that with Berlin Brass you get individual instruments vs one soloist with SF only. But this is not only a small gimmick! It means, you can actually write like for a true Brass ensemble, changing between unison and chords within phrases. This on itself is really a game changer to me!
I have both SF brass and Berlin Brass and I do see use for both of them! Don't get me wrong on this, I see both of them getting used depending on the needs. But if one would ask me I had to choose one of them, without a second of thought I would choose Berlin Brass. It is way more versatile and you pay for what you get. I did receive free products from Orchestral tools, but the majority, I bought. So, there is no reason for me to praise OT. I just get the free libraries for doing demos. What I say here is only based on my experience as a customer and user of those libraries.


----------



## The Darris (Nov 1, 2016)

FriFlo said:


> I find the comparison that SF brass is more complete and less expensive not really fair, to be honest!
> 1) Price: SF sold the individual BML brass modules for quite a lot more than they are offered now, so it is just another price policy. With OT you get a fixed price without any additional sales happening except for the intro offer. SF seems to bundle all their small volumes in big bundles, similar to how East West does it: early customers pay a lot more and often pay upgrade fees on top of that in order to get continued updates. Also, you only compared SF brass price without the mic expansions! Sure, some people will probably not need it, but it is not the full product, actually ...
> 2) Content: Yes, Berlin Brass doesn't have Cimbassos and what not ... It also does not have mutes, as those will be a dedicated expansion module. The SF mutes are included, but they are very sparse and can only be applied in some areas, where you might need mutes.
> And you are completely missing to mention, that the existing articulation in Berlin Brass are quite a bit more complete than those of SF Brass. You did mention the fact that with Berlin Brass you get individual instruments vs one soloist with SF only. But this is not only a small gimmick! It means, you can actually write like for a true Brass ensemble, changing between unison and chords within phrases. This on itself is really a game changer to me!
> I have both SF brass and Berlin Brass and I do see use for both of them! Don't get me wrong on this, I see both of them getting used depending on the needs. But if one would ask me I had to choose one of them, without a second of thought I would choose Berlin Brass. It is way more versatile and you pay for what you get. I did receive free products from Orchestral tools, but the majority, I bought. So, there is no reason for me to praise OT. I just get the free libraries for doing demos. What I say here is only based on my experience as a customer and user of those libraries.


All great points, many of which I mention in my review. However, the question was asked to basically choose between the two in their current forms. Yes, SF Brass was more expensive once upon a time, but in that time it's matured and does offer more in terms of instrument compliments and extended articulations which will not be available in Berlin Brass until other expansions arrive. Also, it is by far lighter on system resources at the moment.

So, it might not be a 100% fair comparison in your opinion but people still see these two libraries as the main competitors in the brass market thus have to choose between the two when they can only afford one. I hate saying to buy both. I got the damn libraries for free and that type of cop out degrades my credibility in my opinion. As a reviewer, I look at the now versus what it used to be and what it could be and weigh the two in the moment when I do comparisons. As single products, I seek to critique them on their own terms and what the developer's concept was to achieve. I made that case to the best of my ability and knowledge and gave Berlin Brass a very honest and fair review that I think gives this product a great rating, the same for SF Brass too.

Having used both libraries now, I stand by my comparison and descision if i had to choose between the two, RIGHT NOW. I mentioned the pros and cons of both and made a choice. Ask me again in 4 years when the prices and content change, I might have a different answer.


----------



## jamwerks (Nov 1, 2016)

FWIW, I haven't watched the video, but it's great imo to talk about the all the intricate details of libraries, and even to compare libraries to one another. But from there to give advice as to which library one should buy seems pretty far fetched to me.


----------



## Rodney Money (Nov 1, 2016)

The Darris said:


> I'm fortunate enough to receive these products for free


How?


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Nov 1, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> How?



Probably helping for extensive beta Testing, Demo Writing etc.? Also some people have endorsements with companies.


----------



## The Darris (Nov 1, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> How?





AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Probably helping for extensive beta Testing, Demo Writing etc.? Also some people have endorsements with companies.



I run a reviewing website/series called Samples Spotlight. Companies will send me NFR's of their products for review. I've been reviewing libraries since 2014. 

And to clarify the comment by @AlexanderSchiborr ; *No*, I do not beta test or write demos for any of the libraries I review. I also do not have any endorsements with any developer. I'm not cool enough for that.

Best,

C


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

The Darris said:


> I run a reviewing website/series called Samples Spotlight. Companies will send me NFR's of their products for review. I've been reviewing libraries since 2014.
> 
> And to clarify the comment by @AlexanderSchiborr ; *No*, I do not beta test or write demos for any of the libraries I review. *I also do not have any endorsements with any developer. I'm not cool enough for that.*
> 
> ...



So in other words, you're riding the free sample library gravy train?


----------



## Zhao Shen (Nov 1, 2016)

Carbs said:


> So in other words, you're riding the free sample library gravy train?


Well, calling it a gravy train is a bit off the mark... Reviewing libraries takes a lot of time, thought, and dedication.


----------



## The Darris (Nov 1, 2016)

Carbs said:


> That doesn't matter though, as long as the free libraries keep rolling in, right?


Congrats, you were the one to make the post!!

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to suggest that I do this for the free libraries. 

First and foremost, I don't do reviews for the free libraries. Doing these reviews take up a lot of my time outside of my work. Reviewing a product isn't simply just installing it and playing with it for a few hours and coming to the conclusion that it's good or bad. Their is a process involved.

Two years ago, I started doing reviews for Film and Game Composer. I didn't actually ask to be a reviewer. A friend recommended me to Emmett Cooke who offered me a spot on his website as a contributor. This was based off of my content I'd already published via my youtube channel. So, NO, I did not get into this for the free stuff. I wasn't initially planning on being a reviewer. I simply made a video of Grosso that covered all of the phrases. That video was received well and thus I started down this path. For the first time, for that library at least, people got to hear the library out of context of the demos and Sonokinetic's video overviews and I also sort of reviewed it based on my thoughts about it. I actually spent money on that library and talked about it without any angle. I just wanted to provide people with useful content. After that video made its rounds for a bit, I realized that there was a hole in the industry for content like this. People, like myself, prefer to see libraries exposed like this because it gives them a completely naked perspective to form their buying decisions over. 

When I started reviewing, the only reviews out there were very limited and usually by people who either wrote their own demo using the library or it was written and you couldn't really get a good representation of the sound aside from the developer published demos. So, since what I wanted didn't exist, I started my format of reviewing. It has developed over time and has gotten much more fluid since I started. However, the format is the same: Un-scripted and un-edited to show the library's out of the box sound and content. 

Eventually Film and Game Composers ended their reviewing side of things and that is why I started Samples Spotlight. I wanted to continue to provide my content since I was the only one doing this and people seemed to find it helpful. So, why do I do this? To help inform people who are considering these products to purchase. The perk about spending all this time doing these videos and creating this content is that I get the libraries for free. Yes, that is a benefit, but that has never compromised my integrity behind the purpose of my content.


----------



## benmrx (Nov 1, 2016)

Wow. No beta testing, no demos, no 'real world track/cue walkthru'. Christopher is a genius for working this deal!! 

Is there a full website for 'Samples Spotlight' or is the entirety of your "reviewing website/series" the youtube channel?


----------



## The Darris (Nov 1, 2016)

benmrx said:


> Wow. No beta testing, no demos, no 'real world track/cue walkthru'. Christopher is a genius for working this deal!!
> 
> Is there a full website for 'Samples Spotlight' or is the entirety of your "reviewing website/series" the youtube channel?


I can't tell if you are being genuine or sarcastic. Haha. The website is in my signature block on here. http://samplespotlight.com/


----------



## benmrx (Nov 1, 2016)

The Darris said:


> I can't tell if you are being genuine or sarcastic. Haha. The website is in my signature block on here. http://samplespotlight.com/


Absolutely genuine! Thanks for the link. I just didn't see it!


----------



## ysnyvz (Nov 1, 2016)

Hey Chris. I'm a subscriber. I like your style. Do you have Berlin Strings? I'm thinking about buying it and there isn't a proper video review for it.


----------



## Zhao Shen (Nov 1, 2016)

The Darris said:


> Congrats, you were the one to make the post!!
> 
> I was wondering how long it would take for someone to suggest that I do this for the free libraries.
> 
> First and foremost, I don't do reviews for the free libraries. Doing these reviews take up a lot of my time outside of my work. Reviewing a product isn't simply just installing it and playing with it for a few hours and coming to the conclusion that it's good or bad. Their is a process involved.



Don't worry about those comments. Reviewing is hard work, and all the people criticizing your "easy gains" are driven by envy. They don't understand that you review libraries for their benefit, the benefit of prospective buyers. Keep up the good work!

For people who think reviewing libraries is something that can be done in, oh, say, half an hour of work - please start your own review channel and take advantage of these incredibly easy ways to get free stuff.


----------



## The Darris (Nov 1, 2016)

ysnyvz said:


> Hey Chris. I'm a subscriber. I like your style. Do you have Berlin Strings? I'm thinking about buying it and there isn't a proper video review for it.


I do not own Berlin Strings so I cannot give you an opinion. I've not had a reason to purchase it because I am really happy with the string libraries I do own and use, all of which I actually bought !! Haha. The one review I thought was great was by Peter Alexander but that was version one so I don't know how accurate it would be to today's version of Berlin Strings. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Best,

C


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

Zhao Shen said:


> Don't worry about those comments. Reviewing is hard work, and all the people criticizing your "easy gains" are driven by envy. They don't understand that you review libraries for their benefit, the benefit of prospective buyers. Keep up the good work!
> 
> For people who think reviewing libraries is something that can be done in, oh, say, half an hour of work - please start your own review channel and take advantage of these incredibly easy ways to get free stuff.



Driven by envy? Lmao. Give me a break.


----------



## The Darris (Nov 1, 2016)

Zhao Shen said:


> Don't worry about those comments. Reviewing is hard work, and all the people criticizing your "easy gains" are driven by envy. They don't understand that you review libraries for their benefit, the benefit of prospective buyers. Keep up the good work!
> 
> For people who think reviewing libraries is something that can be done in, oh, say, half an hour of work - please start your own review channel and take advantage of these incredibly easy ways to get free stuff.



Thanks Zhao!! I'm not really bothered by it. I am just surprised that it has taken over a year for someone to publicly challenge my integrity with my content. It's not that I feel the need to defend myself but to rather inform any newcomers who haven't seen my content and are just discovering it where I stand and what my true purpose is in this community. I try to let my content speak for itself but I truly appreciate the support. Means a lot!!

Best,

C


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

If reviewing is "Hard Work" then I invite you to do a real fucking job for once in your life. A person with an IQ of 78 could bang out a dozen of these "reviews" per week. I normally watch these things out of curiosity, over half the time I already own the library in question. My interest in tuning in is to see if they can catch the problems with any given library that I seem to magically be able to do. Funny thing is, they NEVER do...lol! The ones that do?!?! Daniel James, Mike Verta, etc. Those are people who's opinions you can actually trust. 

Samples have been good enough to do convincing mockups for 98% of the population for at least 20 years, and demos usually show how great a library can sound. IMO, it's better to know the BAD about a given library than the GOOD because even a bad library can be molded to fit if one has the will. The problem is that none of these reviews really uncover the dirt. 

Anyhow, don't misunderstand, I don't envy anybody who gets free libraries for doing nothing more than a youtube video...it's more like I just don't have any reason to trust them.


----------



## Zhao Shen (Nov 1, 2016)

Carbs said:


> If reviewing is "Hard Work" then I invite you to do a real fucking job for once in your life. A person with an IQ of 78 could bang out a dozen of these "reviews" per week. I normally watch these things out of curiosity, over half the time I already own the library in question. My interest in tuning in is to see if they can catch the problems with any given library that I seem to magically be able to do. Funny thing is, they NEVER do...lol! The ones that do?!?! Daniel James, Mike Verta, etc. Those are people who's opinions you can actually trust.
> 
> Samples have been good enough to do convincing mockups for 98% of the population for at least 20 years, and demos usually show how great a library can sound. IMO, it's better to know the BAD about a given library than the GOOD because even a bad library can be molded to fit if one has the will. The problem is that none of these reviews really uncover the dirt.
> 
> Anyhow, don't misunderstand, I don't envy anybody who gets free libraries for doing nothing more than a youtube video...it's more like I just don't have any reason to trust them.


OK


----------



## ysnyvz (Nov 1, 2016)

The Darris said:


> I do not own Berlin Strings so I cannot give you an opinion. I've not had a reason to purchase it because I am really happy with the string libraries I do own and use, all of which I actually bought !! Haha. The one review I thought was great was by Peter Alexander but that was version one so I don't know how accurate it would be to today's version of Berlin Strings. Sorry I can't be of more help.
> 
> Best,
> 
> C


Well then, OT should give you a copy to review. 
A library with that size and price should have a review like you do. I mean long and detailed.


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

The Darris said:


> Thanks Zhao!! I'm not really bothered by it. I am just surprised that it has taken over a year for someone to publicly challenge my integrity with my content. It's not that I feel the need to defend myself but to rather inform any newcomers who haven't seen my content and are just discovering it where I stand and what my true purpose is in this community. I try to let my content speak for itself but I truly appreciate the support. Means a lot!!
> 
> Best,
> 
> C




Believe me, it's not just you. There are a couple of you around here who have had my BS meter up for awhile now, and in fact probably has been on my mind for at least the last year or so. Some other reviewer here was highjacking every thread awhile back until a mod must have told him to cut it out. He'd respond for the sole purpose of linking to his youtube channel for a review. Now his website has ad banners all over it, so it must have paid off.

It just wasn't until today that you confirmed my worst fears about you personally. So thank you for letting us know, but also kudos to you for riding that sample gravy train! I mean, who wouldn't???


----------



## The Darris (Nov 1, 2016)

Carbs said:


> If reviewing is "Hard Work" then I invite you to do a real fucking job for once in your life.


AHAHAHHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. This sir will be framed and hung on my wall of best comments ever. I can use it for inspiration after I get done working so that I can create content you hate. You should get into motivational speaking. You're surprisingly good at it.


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

The Darris said:


> AHAHAHHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. This sir will be framed and hung on my wall of best comments ever. I can use it for inspiration after I get done working so that I can create content you hate. You should get into motivational speaking. You're surprisingly good at it.



Thank you! Keep up the "hard" work!


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

For the record, I have no problem with people like The Darris doing reviews. However, they should probably be held to the same standard as developers who advertise and have to pay a fee to participate in the commercial announcements forum...because at the end of the day these are only advertisements.


----------



## Lawson. (Nov 1, 2016)

Carbs said:


> If reviewing is "Hard Work" then I invite you to do a real fucking job for once in your life. A person with an IQ of 78 could bang out a dozen of these "reviews" per week.



By all means, please do try it. I'm eagerly awaiting the results.


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

Lawson. said:


> By all means, please do try it. I'm eagerly awaiting the results.



Sorry, the videos I make go directly to developers as bug reports. I don't have time to be a shill.

Edit:

That is, unless you want to start sending me free sample libraries, I'll turn those suckers out quick.


----------



## Lawson. (Nov 1, 2016)

The idea that reviews are super easy to do is pissing me off. (Most) people who review these libraries (myself included) genuinely do it to try and help people find out more info on the library and see if it's right for them, plus just enjoy talking about samples in general. I don't do 45 minute video reviews like Chris does, but I do create a video overview, usually along with a written article and custom demo featuring said library. I work as a composer full-time, and I'm sure you know all of the crazy deadlines we get. To find time between all that to write a review (without getting paid whatsoever) is tough, and it can take a LONG time to finish, especially since I try to do a nice job with it.

I do try to keep reviews more upbeat and positive, but if there are flaws or things I don't like the in the library I will MAKE SURE to point it out. Most of the libraries I review I genuinely like, and so there aren't many negative things to say about them. I'm not shilling libraries; I actually would use them myself and don't have issues with them!

Finally, on the forum, if I'm talking about a library and recommending it (and have received something for free from the developer), I make sure to enclose it in a note at the bottom SPECIFICALLY so people will know that I have indeed received something from said dev and want to be as open as possible. How can I be acting like a shill when I openly say that I have received products from them?

I don't have hard feelings against anyone, and just wanted to try and help clear things up.


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

Lawson. said:


> The idea that reviews are super easy to do is pissing me off.




I'm sorry man, but of course it's pissing you off. You review as well, correct? Hacking into a microphone and dealing with family pets whilst simultaneously recording a screen cast of you playing various library patches while talking into a mic, unedited, unscripted, whatever...is not hard to do. For a lot of us we call that Tuesday morning with a new library except without the unedited youtube video at the end .


----------



## Lawson. (Nov 1, 2016)

Carbs said:


> I'm sorry man, but of course it's pissing you off. You review as well, correct? Hacking into a microphone and dealing with family pets whilst simultaneously recording a screen cast of you playing various library patches while talking into a mic, unedited, unscripted, whatever...is not hard to do. For a lot of us we call that Tuesday morning with a new library except without the unedited youtube video at the end .



Well I'm glad that you took the time to read my post. Good day!


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

Lawson. said:


> Well I'm glad that you took the time to read my post. Good day!



And a top a top oh'thee-morning cheerio good day to you as well my Southern Californian European pal! 

[note: I get paid $.25 per bump of this thread]


----------



## ysnyvz (Nov 1, 2016)

Carbs said:


> [note: I get paid $.25 per bump of this thread]


So that's why you're so grumpy. They don't pay you enough. You should ask for a raise and leave reviewers alone.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Nov 1, 2016)

Seems to be a lot of hate going on in this thread. Not sure why. Both Lawson and Chris openly state when they've received free product (most on VI do so, in my experience). If that's creating a perceived conflict of interest for you then don't look at the reviews. All sounds pretty simple to me. I've got enough bothersome things going on in my life without actively seeking out more things that irk me, especially things I have no control over. 

I don't have time to put into doing video (or written) reviews but if I did I'd want to keep it as independent as possible. That doesn't mean I automatically discount reviews from others. Especially if they have access to (for example) several libraries that I want to compare and contrast. 

\rant over. 

Back on topic: I'm still working my way through BB but, I love it. I wanted the true divisi option that it offers and it hasn't disappointed. I've not seen any issues with resource usage yet (32GB system). I'm working on a short mock up with pretty much a full orchestra (not an OT orchestra but very much a hybrid of different devs), so we'll see how it handles everything at once. I love the tone. I find it quite playable too. Some bugs to iron out but meh, they're not bothering me right now and I'm expecting OT to maintain their high standards in that regard.


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

ysnyvz said:


> So that's why you're so grumpy. They don't pay you enough. You should ask for a raise and leave reviewers alone.




I'm not grumpy I just see things for how they are. Nobody bites the hand that feeds them! It would be stupid to.


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

SoNowWhat? said:


> I've got enough bothersome things going on in my life without actively seeking out more things that irk me, especially things I have no control over.




Lol, perusing an internet forum and having a brain does not equal actively seeking out things that irk me. I know you aren't trying to directly address me with your passive aggressive stance, but it was on the nose enough for me to catch your drift.


----------



## RRBE Sound (Nov 1, 2016)

The Darris said:


> Depends on your system to be honest. Spitfire is certainly more usable for me at the moment and I find the sound great. However, Berlin Brass has a sound that is more clear to me which certainly gives me more flexibility in the end. Berlin Brass has more capabilities to build different ensembles in very logical way that is pretty awesome where as Spitfire only has the 1 soloist per section compared to having each player available in Berlin Brass.
> 
> If I had to choose between the two I'd go for Spitfire Brass. It has more instruments available (Cimbassi, Contrabass Trombone, etc) not to mention there are more articulations like Mutes, Falls, and Rips. Also, the price is certainly more affordable. Basically nearly $875 vs. $610. Berlin Brass feels like it was sampled more deeply, ie; more dynamics and round robins so the price is justifiable but others may disagree.
> 
> ...


Thank you!!

That's just what I need! - Have you reviewed Spitfire Brass?


----------



## The Darris (Nov 1, 2016)

RRBE Sound said:


> Thank you!!
> 
> That's just what I need! - Have you reviewed Spitfire Brass?



Anytime @RRBE Sound !! 

Yes, you can find it here: http://samplespotlight.com/2016/10/17/review-symphonic-brass-spitfire-audio/


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Nov 1, 2016)

Carbs said:


> Lol, perusing an internet forum and having a brain does not equal actively seeking out things that irk me. I know you aren't trying to directly address me with your passive aggressive stance, but it was on the nose enough for me to catch your drift.


No, it was the perusing an Internet forum followed by continued posting in a thread that seems to be upsetting you. Do you really need that? I don't. See ya.


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

SoNowWhat? said:


> No, it was the perusing an Internet forum followed by continued posting in a thread that seems to be upsetting you. Do you really need that? I don't. See ya.



No, you're experiencing whats called "projection." You are upset, not I!


----------



## ysnyvz (Nov 1, 2016)

Carbs said:


> I'm not grumpy I just see things for how they are. Nobody bites the hand that feeds them! It would be stupid to.


Thanks for being so special. We needed someone to show us the reality.


----------



## RRBE Sound (Nov 1, 2016)

The Darris said:


> Anytime @RRBE Sound !!
> 
> Yes, you can find it here: http://samplespotlight.com/2016/10/17/review-symphonic-brass-spitfire-audio/


So great! - Gonna watch now  ..... Buy later...


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

ysnyvz said:


> Thanks for being so special. We needed someone to show us the reality.



No problem, thank The Darris!



The Darris said:


> _*I got the damn libraries for free and that type of cop out degrades my credibility in my opinion.*_


----------



## 5Lives (Nov 1, 2016)

Seems like some folks have a lot of misplaced jealousy...if it was so easy to do reviews to get free libraries (most folks on VI have IQs over the required 78 I would imagine), why not do it? You could save hundreds if not thousands! 

I for one am appreciative of folks that take the time to do these reviews / walkthroughs. For these expensive libraries, it is as close to a "trial" as we're going to get. Not all are created equal of course, but I think Chris, Lawson, and Daniel do great jobs.


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

5Lives said:


> Seems like some folks have a lot of misplaced jealousy...if it was so easy to do reviews to get free libraries (most folks on VI have IQs over the required 78 I would imagine), why not do it? You could save hundreds if not thousands!
> 
> I for one am appreciative of folks that take the time to do these reviews / walkthroughs. For these expensive libraries, it is as close to a "trial" as we're going to get. Not all are created equal of course, but I think Chris, Lawson, and Daniel do great jobs.



Lol, this is always the go to argument. Keep pulling them straws out your asses fellas. These people are walking billboards, nothing more. As an aside, don't read to much into the IQ thing...I mean...I KNOW it's pretty much standard to nitpick at a comment when there is no argument to be had, but I'd take even The Darris' review of a library over, say, Stephen Hawking. Lol.


----------



## Zhao Shen (Nov 1, 2016)

5Lives said:


> Seems like some folks have a lot of misplaced jealousy...if it was so easy to do reviews to get free libraries (most folks on VI have IQs over the required 78 I would imagine), why not do it? You could save hundreds if not thousands!



It's obviously because 


Carbs said:


> I don't have time to be a shill.



Don't doubt him man. He can obviously do reviews at the level of or better than Chris, he's even proved it by arguing fiercely that he can.


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

Zhao Shen said:


> It's obviously because
> 
> 
> Don't doubt him man. He can obviously do reviews at the level of or better than Chris, he's even proved it by arguing fiercely that he can.



What level would that be? Owning a microphone and getting a sample library for free and then playing all the patches whilst recording myself, one after the other, while missing anything worth noting?....LMAO...


----------



## ysnyvz (Nov 1, 2016)

Carbs said:


> No problem, thank The Darris!


News flash for you: We all know developers give free copies to reviewers to promote their libraries. We watch them if we want to listen a library more than official demos/videos.


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

ysnyvz said:


> News flash for you: We all know developers give free copies to reviewers to promote their libraries. We watch them if we want to listen a library more than official demos/videos.



Thats cool! They should have their own forum where they pay a fee, because they are billboards.


----------



## Zhao Shen (Nov 1, 2016)

Carbs said:


> What level would that be? Owning a microphone and getting a sample library for free and then playing all the patches whilst recording myself, one after the other, while missing anything worth noting?....LMAO...


Here's the problem. Let's say I agree with you, and that I think reviewing is easy. Well, you still haven't shown that you can do anything but make claims. Back it up with a quick quality review and maybe you'd win over some minds. Currently, you're just shouting loudly and thinking that means you're right. Maybe _*gasp* _you even have an IQ of 77!


----------



## 5Lives (Nov 1, 2016)

Even if they are walking billboards and get used for promotion, that doesn't take away every ounce of value from their walk throughs in my opinion. Not all developers provide in depth demos and tutorials and even for the ones that do, it's nice to get a second perspective on the library. It aids in purchase decisions.


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

Zhao Shen said:


> Here's the problem. Let's say I agree with you, and that I think reviewing is easy. Well, you still haven't shown that you can do anything but make claims. Back it up with a quick quality review and maybe you'd win over some minds. Currently, you're just shouting loudly and thinking that means you're right. Maybe _*gasp* _you even have an IQ of 77!



Actually, I'm only making a factual statement that anyone receiving FREE libraries in exchange for REVIEWS should not be entirely trusted. YOU are the one then claiming that I need to make a review in order to defend my claims. That's the most fucking stupid thing I've ever heard. A sucker is born every minute.


----------



## creativeforge (Nov 1, 2016)

I think it is obviously a diversion from the OP, and as well I don't find your attitude or language acceptable, Carbs. What is up your butt? Could you please stop attacking people? And get along, behave? It's obnoxious to have to filter the crap you pull people into. 

from Musician helping musician, if he/she wants to.


----------



## creativeforge (Nov 1, 2016)

well, you asked for it.


----------



## Carbs (Nov 1, 2016)

creativeforge said:


> well, you asked for it.



Yes I did, now do it.


----------



## Zhao Shen (Nov 1, 2016)

Carbs said:


> Actually, I'm only making a factual statement that anyone receiving FREE libraries in exchange for REVIEWS should not be entirely trusted. YOU are the one then claiming that I need to make a review in order to defend my claims. That's the most fucking stupid thing I've ever heard. A sucker is born every minute.



Well I don't disagree with you completely on that point, but...



Carbs said:


> If reviewing is "Hard Work" then I invite you to do a real fucking job for once in your life. A person with an IQ of 78 could bang out a dozen of these "reviews" per week.



...you've been making many other points. Some of which are honestly pretty demeaning. Sure, if you said "I believe receiving sample libraries for free leads to heavily biased reviews," then we'd have a discussion, and one that I might take your side on, since I mostly watch reviews to get more exposure to the library's content and take everything said with a grain of salt. Instead you claim that reviewing is easy, make remarks on IQ, and tell people to get a "real fucking job." Not the best way to get your opinions across...


----------



## Silence-is-Golden (Nov 1, 2016)

@Hannes_F or @Nick Batzdorf or any other moderator,

Can you make sure the acceptable is brought back here?


----------



## The Darris (Nov 1, 2016)

Is it over yet?


----------



## creativeforge (Nov 1, 2016)

The Darris said:


> Is it over yet?



Yes, back to the business of music...


----------



## tack (Nov 1, 2016)

The Darris, don't you have a no-questions-asked money-back guarantee for all dissatisfied viewers?

For my open source projects I have always maintained a policy of offering to refund vocally unhappy users double what they paid.


----------



## rottoy (Nov 1, 2016)

creativeforge said:


> Yes, back to the business of music...


But what dost the pilgrim do, that findeth the harmony of petulant discourse, music to it's ears?
Do they resign in the face of the almighty?


----------



## The Darris (Nov 1, 2016)

tack said:


> The Darris, don't you have a no-questions-asked money-back guarantee for all dissatisfied viewers?
> 
> For my open source projects I have always maintained a policy of offering to refund vocally unhappy users double what they paid.


 Hahaha. In that case, I should start refunding triple what they pay. Which will include a 1 hour screencast of my task manager with my dog Rupert breathing into the mic the whole time.


----------



## The Darris (Nov 1, 2016)

Okay, now that the dust has settled. I wanted to bring back the discussion of my comparison of Berlin Brass to Spitfire's Symphonic Brass. A fair and honest question from anyone trying to decide which library to purchase. The argument against me was that comparing the two is not "fair" and is "far fetched" when I'm basing it on my opinions. This is a fair argument. Let's discuss.  

Firstly, I don't blindly compare libraries. You will rarely ever hear me directly compare two or more libraries in my reviews. When I do, it is to simply compare a very specific feature that the libraries have in common, or a striking difference that separates them. When Spitfire released their library, Orchestral Tools announced the release date of Berlin Brass. Many users here on VI-C asked about how they would compare. In fact, there is a thread titled BB vs SSB, or something like that, which spawned well before Berlin Brass had a walk-through or demo posted. Secondly, when I do compare libraries, I always look at them in their current form because that is what the library is at the time and what people are interested in. I don't find it useful to ask myself, "hmm, what will this library be like a few months or years from now?" and then proceed to compare. That's illogical considering these are two competing and viable products on the market now. I can't know the future of their development so why would I make assumptions? Thus, I compare them in their current form and based on my experience [meaning I own them and have spent enough time learning how they work]. Having actual experience with a library is important to me, especially when talking logically about it. Why on Earth would I compare two libraries I don't own or have any time spent working with them? The closest I've come to that is speaking about libraries I've used at a friend's studio that in the short amount of time I spent with them, I decided it wasn't worth my money. All subjective but I leave it at that. I don't dive into details I'm not familiar with. That'd be insane and irresponsible.

Yes, I understand Spitfire Brass use to be individual volumes and cost a lot more and is now packaged as a single and cheaper product. But, what it used to be has nothing to do with what it is right now. Currently, it has more content than it did before and is cheaper. This falls under the "pro" side of the spectrum in my book and is something I would consider if I "HAD TO CHOOSE BETWEEN THE TWO." Comparatively, Berlin Brass offers much more content in terms of sampling detail and range (re; individual instruments and mic positions). This is also on the "pro" side of the spectrum. Between the two however, you get more instrumentation options with Spitfire's Brass due to the extended family of brass instruments included as well as a wider range of extended techniques but a more inconsistent list of articulations across the range vs. Berlin Brass having the basic instrument palette but having a more consistent set of articulations across the whole library. This last sentence features the mixed bag of pros and cons concerning the content alone. Now, I wouldn't be a reviewer if I left it at that.

Let's talk about performance. In my experience, it's been established that Berlin Brass doesn't perform very well on my system. I've been doing this long enough to know if I am making a mistake or if something is not working as advertised. With that said, this issue was stated to be specific to me but without proper assessment so it's still an open ticket. So, as the ancient proverb says, "Your mileage may vary." Others on here have expressed their positive feedback that it works fine for them. That is why it is a tough call to make when somebody directly asks me, "So, which library would you recommend personally, Spitfire or Berlin Brass?" Based on my experiences, what I know between the two libraries and their current form, how they work on MY system, and how much they cost; I'd choose Spitfire's Brass. [remember folks; this is only my opinion]

Notice how I didn't talk about the actual sound of the library? This is a very subjective thing to do. I actually love the sound of both and actually prefer the sound of Berlin Brass more. However, it's not a very practical choice for me at the moment. Not with the type of template and workflow I use at least. But, in the end, the question was putting me into a hypothetical scenario of choosing only one. The reality is that I own both and have the option to choose both. 

So, it's up to you, the reader or viewer, to make your choice. If you value my opinion than that is on you. I only endorse products I believe to be good and useful. Both of these libraries are ones that I would purchase. Despite what some people might think after reading this thread, I'm as much a user and lover of these tools as the next VI-Nerd on here. In the end, if people are generally interested in my opinions, I will offer them. However, I will make it clear that these are my opinions and go from there. The best thing to come out of this is a discussion and people who disagree. It shows the other side to the equation and helps everyone make their decisions. 

I appreciate the support that a great many of you have given to me on the thread and on the forum. I'm always trying to refine my content and make it better which is done through discussion with those who consume it. I hope this last long post was worth your time.

All the best,

Chris


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Nov 1, 2016)

Hi Chris, I've appreciated and gained useful information from your walk throughs in the past. I find them informative. In my experience you've been open about receiving free content for review purposes. That information lets the listener/viewer critically evaluate the information presented to them. I have Berlin Brass and am enjoying it immensely. I can't comment on Spitfire Brass, I don't have it (though I have no trouble believing it's very good as I have other libraries from Spitfire and they are all great). I can appreciate your opinion however, and I'm looking forward to your next video.


----------



## creativeforge (Nov 1, 2016)

rottoy said:


> But what dost the pilgrim do, that findeth the harmony of petulant discourse, music to it's ears?
> Do they resign in the face of the almighty?



Thou dost a cloud of dust raiseth against the ecotone of my transitory discontent, and thus dost dust stirreth. As thou wereth. Methink your ear are misplaced, doh, for eyes read words written here, wayward son... while ears listen to the sound of your own domicile.


----------



## The Darris (Nov 1, 2016)

creativeforge said:


> Thou dost a cloud of dust raiseth against the ecotone of my transitory discontent, and thus dost dust stirreth. As thou wereth. Methink your ear are misplaced, doh, for eyes read words written here, wayward son... while ears listen to the sound of your own domicile.


Thou dost want samples....eth.


----------



## creativeforge (Nov 1, 2016)

The Darris said:


> Thou dost want samples....eth.



I wish! Sooner or later, project on the horizon, I'll stop by and look around...


----------



## jamwerks (Nov 2, 2016)

The Darris said:


> Thou dost want samples....eth.


Why don't you just talk about all the details, and leave it at that? If you would abstain from giving purchase suggestions, I would find your cause much more credible and "nobel".


----------



## NoamL (Nov 2, 2016)

Still don't understand the mania for comparing BB and SSB.

In fact, I don't understand SSB, period. It looks like they took a rational ensemble building approach for sampling horns (1-2-6, same as East West) and then applied the exact same methodology to trumpets and trombones. It only kinda makes sense when you remember they used to be parallel products in the Phalanx line. But for building an actual brass section? I don't see the rationale for 6-6-6, or for using 6 tpts unison in all but the rarest of cases. That's a really boutique sampling choice.

On top of that, you can actually _get_ 6 unison trumpets, 6 unison bones and _8_ unison horns in BB _*should*_ you need them, because the ensemble patches are different musicians from the soloists. So SSB doesn't even beat BB at (forgive me for this one) _The Zimitation Game._


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Nov 2, 2016)

NoamL said:


> Still don't understand the mania for comparing BB and SSB.


 This is a very good question.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Nov 2, 2016)

NoamL said:


> _The Zimitation Game_ (forgive me for that one).


----------



## The Darris (Nov 2, 2016)

SoNowWhat? said:


> This is a very good question.


Probably because not everyone thinks the same way and many people prefer comparisons to help make a descision.

@jamwerks : I don't think you are understanding my point and are passing it off as "purchasing" advice. I have not suggested what I think you or anyone else should spend your money on, just simply stating what I'd spend my money on if I could only choose one right now. Again, that was a question directed at me. I have no reason not to answer because I don't mind sharing my opinions when queried.

I don't know if you watch my reviews but I most certainly don't tell people what to buy. I might suggest that I think the price is fair or too much, or a no brainer deal but that is all subjective and apart of most reviewing methods I've seen. I guess if you don't think my intentions are what I say to be true, you are entitled to that opinion. Agree to disagree. 

Cheers,

C


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Nov 2, 2016)

The Darris said:


> Probably because not everyone thinks the same way and many people prefer comparisons to help make a descision.


Indeed. We are pattern finding machines. I was interested in the question myself before making a purchase as I only have budget for one, and was looking for input on which way to go. The more I think about it though, the more I think it's perhaps not a worthwhile exercise as they're just different. You spelled out some of the differences quite well in one of your earlier posts though, by way of comparison.


----------



## David Gosnell (Nov 2, 2016)

When you're thinking about dropping a large wedge of cash for a library, I don't think there can ever be too much information. Library production values are such a subjective thing, I think you can learn stuff that would put you off even from the most intentionally misleading of crafted demos (no reference to Chris' review - I'm referring to commissioned demos). I'm sure we've all had the experience of listening to a demo by a devoted disciple which they claim to be the best they've ever heard and thinking 'really? sounds more like a cross between a kazoo and a piano accordion than it does a fortissimo trumpet to me???'

In terms of comparing BB and SSB it very much depends on your composition style which would suit you best. I own both (though I've yet to get chance to put BB through its paces - I'm constantly hearing Sibelius symphonies in my head while I work on other things wondering what they'd sound like if I got the chance to do a full Berlin series mock up of an excerpt...) and I can imagine needing both for different projects. I bought BB because I know there are things I can't do well right now with SSB due to the Air Lyndhurst factor - if you need complexity of orchestration and detail - especially at speed, recording in a barn isn't really your friend. On the other hand, if you are in a hurry and want to press as few keys as possible and create a full, lush sound, then recording in a barn can be your best friend. But, that's just my subjective opinion - as is my belief that it's tough to create convincing brass without multiple mic positions; so the room in which the instruments are recorded (or use of artificial damping techniques to recreate the sound of a stage full of bodies in a real full orchestra recording) is important to me.

And I think that's the key, if you get an endorsement from a composer who writes in a similar style to you (or the style you need to write in for a specific project) then it is worth listening to. If you want to write epic listen to the opinions of successful trailer composers, if you want to write intimate, listen to successful TV drama composers. I also think composers who set up libraries tend to create tools that they would like to use themselves, and then they are gradually morphed over subsequent updates to increase their usefulness to a wider audience - so it isn't a bad idea to listen to the composition styles of the creators to try to find your spiritual home.


----------



## Zhao Shen (Nov 2, 2016)

NoamL said:


> Still don't understand the mania for comparing BB and SSB.
> 
> In fact, I don't understand SSB, period. It looks like they took a rational ensemble building approach for sampling horns (1-2-6, same as East West) and then applied the exact same methodology to trumpets and trombones. It only kinda makes sense when you remember they used to be parallel products in the Phalanx line. But for building an actual brass section? I don't see the rationale for 6-6-6, or for using 6 tpts unison in all but the rarest of cases. That's a really boutique sampling choice.
> 
> On top of that, you can actually _get_ 6 unison trumpets, 6 unison bones and _8_ unison horns in BB _*should*_ you need them, because the ensemble patches are different musicians from the soloists. So SSB doesn't even beat BB at (forgive me for this one) _The Zimitation Game._



Because they are both acclaimed brass libraries. Most people that are on the fence would like to avoid buying both and are looking to see if they can relate to the experience of others who do own the libraries.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Nov 2, 2016)

David Gosnell said:


> When you're thinking about dropping a large wedge of cash for a library, I don't think there can ever be too much information. Library production values are such a subjective thing, I think you can learn stuff that would put you off even from the most intentionally misleading of crafted demos (no reference to Chris' review - I'm referring to commissioned demos). I'm sure we've all had the experience of listening to a demo by a devoted disciple which they claim to be the best they've ever heard and thinking 'really? sounds more like a cross between a kazoo and a piano accordion than it does a fortissimo trumpet to me???'
> 
> In terms of comparing BB and SSB it very much depends on your composition style which would suit you best. I own both (though I've yet to get chance to put BB through its paces - I'm constantly hearing Sibelius symphonies in my head while I work on other things wondering what they'd sound like if I got the chance to do a full Berlin series mock up of an excerpt...) and I can imagine needing both for different projects. I bought BB because I know there are things I can't do well right now with SSB due to the Air Lyndhurst factor - if you need complexity of orchestration and detail - especially at speed, recording in a barn isn't really your friend. On the other hand, if you are in a hurry and want to press as few keys as possible and create a full, lush sound, then recording in a barn can be your best friend. But, that's just my subjective opinion - as is my belief that it's tough to create convincing brass without multiple mic positions; so the room in which the instruments are recorded (or use of artificial damping techniques to recreate the sound of a stage full of bodies in a real full orchestra recording) is important to me.
> 
> And I think that's the key, if you get an endorsement from a composer who writes in a similar style to you (or the style you need to write in for a specific project) then it is worth listening to. If you want to write epic listen to the opinions of successful trailer composers, if you want to write intimate, listen to successful TV drama composers. I also think composers who set up libraries tend to create tools that they would like to use themselves, and then they are gradually morphed over subsequent updates to increase their usefulness to a wider audience - so it isn't a bad idea to listen to the composition styles of the creators to try to find your spiritual home.


My spiritual home may actually be a barn.


----------



## David Gosnell (Nov 2, 2016)

SoNowWhat? said:


> My spiritual home may actually be a barn.



Ah, in that case, from memory, Miroslav Vitous Brass probably has the horn that sounds most like a cow


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Nov 2, 2016)

David Gosnell said:


> Ah, in that case, from memory, Miroslav Vitous Brass probably has the horn that sounds most like a cow


Woo!



...I mean Moo!


----------



## The Darris (Nov 3, 2016)

Hey Everyone following this thread.

I've made a few amendments to my review that should clear up any misconception or concerns I may have caused by the way I explained them in the video. Yes, I am human and make mistakes but I would like to clear the air for anyone confused or misguided by my words. All of these notes have been added to the review video.

*Note 1:* _Load Times: In the review, I mentioned that I was working with all the multi and legato patches loaded due to the time it takes to load. This comment wasn't directed at Berlin Brass but rather the actual time it would have taken to individually load each patch during the review. Likewise, loading patches in Kontakt while screen casting causes audio glitches and drops. So, I sought to avoid this. The load times in Berlin Brass, when batch re-saved are minuscule. _

*Note 2:* _Ram Usage. As specified earlier in this thread. The issue of how much ram Kontakt was using was exclusive during the recording of my review. I've since re-tested the same setup and Kontakt only uses 8 gb when loading all multi and legato patches while having all samples purged._

*Note 3:* _Sample loading issues when trying to playback, especially the tempo lock repetitions. This is not a bug in Berlin Brass but a side-effect of trying to playback tempo locked samples that are purged. Any library will do this, even if you are running on a Solid State drive, as I was with this library. _

*Note 4:* _There was no issue with the Tuba Legato patch. I accidentally selected Midi Ch. B1 instead of A1 and just didn't catch it. If you stopped watching the video there, I go back and load it up again and it works as advertised. _


----------



## C-Wave (Nov 3, 2016)

Daniel James (hybrid two) is live on twitch writing Berlin Brass.. now


----------



## Rodney Money (Nov 6, 2016)

The Darris said:


> Hey Everyone following this thread.
> 
> I've made a few amendments to my review that should clear up any misconception or concerns I may have caused by the way I explained them in the video. Yes, I am human and make mistakes but I would like to clear the air for anyone confused or misguided by my words. All of these notes have been added to the review video.
> 
> ...


You mentioned about how you didn't care for the sound of the tuba and there was possibly a low filter or possibly something about mic placement? Also, you were hearing this in other brass libraries? I mentioned this before when people were posting about OT's brass teasing, but here is my hypothesis: those companies are sampling the higher F tubas and not the more common and rich sounding BBb or CC. Eb and F tubas are much weaker and thinner compared to their lower counterparts, and do not possess the dark bottom end. It may be as simple as the type of instruments they, OT and Spitfire, choose to sample. That's my humble huntch.


----------



## gpax (Nov 6, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> Speaking of SSB, conversation about it in particular dried up quite quickly, didn't it?


Speaking for myself, I am fairly certain SSB did not suddenly become "less good" just because BB got released.

At least I hope not, lol. I'll double check all my BML Brass/SSB projects to make sure! But I am having fun here.

It's the usual ebb and flow of talking about new product announcements and releases in this forum: Some things arrive to fanfare and acclaim, then get pushed way down in threads after a short time (Adventure Brass?). I do think some products emerge as a definitive choice from time to time, but even then, it's months before consensus starts to build (and as you indicated, SSB in its prior BML form has been out a while to gauge, sans the newer content).

And I suppose it is human nature to want to know what's a better/right choice beforehand, or how to best make an economic decision. Sales aside, promo pricing and their deadlines have been the devil which generates tension and anxiety on this front. For some in this forum, they want to be reassured even before the product has been released! Some holding out for the new release even want to feel vindicated by all of this.

On this point, I think Chris and others can only do so much to demo/walkthrough/review these products, as the sources of useful information they are. When we start to ask them to prognosticate on our behalf is where it starts to get a little odd.


----------



## jononotbono (Mar 8, 2020)

The Darris said:


> All great points, many of which I mention in my review. However, the question was asked to basically choose between the two in their current forms. Yes, SF Brass was more expensive once upon a time, but in that time it's matured and does offer more in terms of instrument compliments and extended articulations which will not be available in Berlin Brass until other expansions arrive. Also, it is by far lighter on system resources at the moment.
> 
> So, it might not be a 100% fair comparison in your opinion but people still see these two libraries as the main competitors in the brass market thus have to choose between the two when they can only afford one. I hate saying to buy both. I got the damn libraries for free and that type of cop out degrades my credibility in my opinion. As a reviewer, I look at the now versus what it used to be and what it could be and weigh the two in the moment when I do comparisons. As single products, I seek to critique them on their own terms and what the developer's concept was to achieve. I made that case to the best of my ability and knowledge and gave Berlin Brass a very honest and fair review that I think gives this product a great rating, the same for SF Brass too.
> 
> Having used both libraries now, I stand by my comparison and descision if i had to choose between the two, RIGHT NOW. I mentioned the pros and cons of both and made a choice. Ask me again in 4 years when the prices and content change, I might have a different answer.



How you feeling about things now?


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Mar 8, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> How you feeling about things now?


well itll get the mixed mic as soon as it's on sine 

XD


----------

