# For those who work, or have worked in Commercials...



## Evan Gamble (Sep 30, 2006)

...in general how does this system work. The world of Film, games, and television is *somewhat* (and at the same time not really :wink: ) straight forward-you have to appeal to those that have creative and financial charge i.e. Directors and Producers by means of networking, working on early small budget projects, making a name for yourself, sending out countless demos, ext. ext.

Now obviously the world of music for commercials is somewhat the same(appealing to those in charge). And I know that Library music is often used. But for commercials that require original film-esq music (not songs or "jingles") How do the producers find a composer? Besides the obvious (having worked with the director of that commercial before and such).

I've heard of were a job is given out to say 25 composers and they all shoot for the job(cow herding) Are these composers given this opportunity from being with a firm or something? How does this system work?

Lots of questions I know, basically if you have any info on how you got into commercials-I would like to hear it if you'd care to share it.


Thanks a bunch!


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## Mike Greene (Sep 30, 2006)

Evan Gamble @ Sat Sep 30 said:


> I've heard of were a job is given out to say 25 composers and they all shoot for the job(cow herding)


That's called a "cattle call" and happens a lot for bigger commercials. Here's what happens:

An ad agency calls 1,2 3 or more jingle houses to submit demos. These jingle houses are basically like publishing companies and have phone lists of dozens of composers. Each jingle house will then submit custom demos from say 5 composers. That's how the demo numbers get so high ( the magic of multiplication.)

The jingle house that wins usually keeps half the composer fee. And, in many cases, takes the publishing rights from all the losers. So these jingle houses become libraries as well. This is both good and bad for the composers. Bad that they don't keep their songs, but good in that the jingle house/library may make them more money.

That's just one scenario. Possibly more common, especially for smaller gigs, is where the producers just hire someone and there's no competition at all. You get these gigs in the standard way: connections.

One interesting thing: in big commercials, the director generally only gets hired for the shoot itself, and has absolutely nothing to do with post. In other words, a commercial director generally can't get you any gigs.

- Mike Greene


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## kid-surf (Oct 1, 2006)

Ditto what Mike said..... this time he really _does_ know what he's talking about. :mrgreen:

:razz:


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## Stephen Rees (Oct 1, 2006)

Mike Greene @ Sat Sep 30 said:


> Evan Gamble @ Sat Sep 30 said:
> 
> 
> > I've heard of were a job is given out to say 25 composers and they all shoot for the job(cow herding)
> ...



So are you really looking at trying to make connections with ad agency creative directors / creative teams?

Stephen


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## Evan Gamble (Oct 1, 2006)

Yeah-if the director has nothing to do with post I assume the producers do. Are the producers usually an advertising agency such as Bartle, Bogle & Hegarty, or Batten, Barton, Durstine & Osborn. Are they the ones who really run the show? Seems like if you called BBDO West and asked where you would submit a demo reel-the phone operater might give you a laugh or something :???: Seems like there should be a smaller division for the tv ads or something. 

And who are the major jingle houses in the business? I'm not familiar with any.

BTW these guys have one sweet website http://www.bbdo.com/. Just click around the ads and it takes you around the world-its pretty fun.

(yeah I'm easily amused :razz: )

Hehe these guys did that mitsubishi Commercial with all the Taikos-that one always makes me want to go bust out my SD and rockout.


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## José Herring (Oct 1, 2006)

I interned with a composer who did commercials in New York.

In New York ads are a big deal and it has an advertising culture connected with it. Ad houses range from family businesses to hugh corporations. Both of which can get some pretty big accounts.

So the huge corporations generally tend to do the cattle calls like Mike said. What's good is that in New York they generally paid for demos. You can get up to $5000 if they are interested in your demo. The guy I worked for would go months without landing a gig but would just live off of his demo money. Pretty funny really.

It's almost a pure business. Art has very little to do with it really. If the music doens't go boom on the product shot then the cue sucks. If it does then you're okay.

Best thing to do is to call local ad agencies and develop some sort of relationship with them. If they are doing something ask them what music they have temped in the ad. Usually it's something that the ad exec things is cool. Sometimes it might be something very specific like "Americana" if they're trying to appeal to a broad American audience. So it's best to find out.

Also, look at a lot of ads and find out what's playing now. You'll notice that most of the same kind of ads have close to the same music. And if I remember correctly what was in and what was out had about a 6 month cycle to it. So what's cool last year is definately not cool this year in some of these guys minds. There is some association going on and the ad world generally tries to associate with what's hip.

But just picking up the phone and calling will get you the work you need. Start with the smaller to medium size agencies and get a couple of decent spots and then you'll have ammunition to bang down some of the larger accounts. Start off by underbidding other composers. Some of these guys have a lot of money to waste but still are pretty bottom line conscious. So they may take a risk on a new guy if they thought they could save money, but then also if they had the money to replace the new guy if it didn't work out.

It's good work. High paying. Quick turnaround. Total business mentality, but at the same time you'll find some really bright and decent arts type people in there as well. You just always have to remember that the whole purpose of an ad is to sell something. So make sure you hit all the product shots with accents of some kind. Boy I've seen composers loose whole accounts or have to redo the entire $20,000 session of live players just because they missed a product shot. With samples these days that's less of a problem I'm sure but after seeing what happened time and time again with my mentor I ran away from the ad industry in a panic. :lol:


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## Synesthesia (Oct 1, 2006)

I felt moved to add a few comments. The ad world in the UK is broadly similar to that as described by Jose in NY. There are a few differences though!

Firstly, anyone in the UK wanting to do this kind of work - join PCAM. You will get a wealth of useful and essential info. http://www.pcam.co.uk

Now: cattle calls are very common. Demo fees are becoming endangered. If you have a reletionship with a client, you will get a demo fee. To demo for a new client, its almost impossible unless you come under the patronage of the director, who can demand that you demo.

The director stays on the job in the UK all thru post. Key decision makers are, the TV Producer of the agency (who is often asked for composer suggestions by the creatives), the Director (the more profile, the more powerful from our p.o.v), the creatives, and finally the CD of the agency in charge of the job, who can veto any decision made by any of the above. The CD will only usually get involved if the job is a 'profile' job.

Of course, the client can also veto. (The agency's client that is - Mr BMW or whatever.) Some clients will happily be directed by the agency - after all thats what they pay them for! - but some clients will d*ck around with the job until is has been butchered into a right mess.

Often, you just have to ride the job like a bucking bronco. I did two jobs recently where I did over 30 demos. This requires a considerable amount of gritting of teeth and lack of 'preciousness'. Ultimately the guy who is writing the cheque will get what he wants, and you have to stick at it until you are the only one left standing.

Anyway - I'll pop back in here with more thoughts later, but initial summary - 

market yourself to:

1. TV Producers at Ad Agencies
2. Directors
3. Creatives

in that order.

Cheers!

Paul


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## Evan Gamble (Oct 2, 2006)

Thanks alot for your inputs Jose and Paul. 

THink I am getting a much clearer veiw of this mysterious world. :smile:


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