# Is the i7-9800X a bad CPU to start a build off of?



## thecompactor (Apr 30, 2020)

I am starting a new build and could use some critique. I'm moving up from an i5-3570K on an ASRock H77M with 16GB of DDR3. My parts list so far is:

Mobo: ASRock X299 STEEL LEGEND
CPU: i7-9800X 
Cooler: Noctua NH-U12A
RAM: 64 GB DDR4 (add more as I go)
Storage: A mix of Samsung EVO SSDs for libraries and a couple HDDs for project files (owned)
GPU: EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER XC HYBRID
PSU: Seasonic Flagship PRIME 600 Titanium Fanless
Soundcard: RME HDSPe Raydat (owned)

Software: Cubase 8.5 Pro, VE Pro, mostly East West libraries, and Izotope Iris (all owned). Plan to pick up some stuff from ProjectSAM after my wallet recovers from the build.

My Budget is $2K. I have a friend who can get discounts on Intel products, so I am able to get the i7-9800X for $296. Another possibility would be the i9-9980-XE for $990, but that stretches my budget too far for one component, even though that seems like a great deal. 

My question is this: If my goal is mainly to use behemoth project templates with as many samples loaded into RAM as possible (within my budget), is the i7-9800X a good option? Should I be considering a different chipset altogether? As a side note, does anyone have experience with fanless PSUs? I'm considering the PRIME 600 strictly because of acoustics, but I don't want anything to melt under load. Any help is appreciated.


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## creativeforge (May 7, 2020)

thecompactor said:


> I am starting a new build and could use some critique. I'm moving up from an i5-3570K on an ASRock H77M with 16GB of DDR3. My parts list so far is:
> 
> Mobo: ASRock X299 STEEL LEGEND
> CPU: i7-9800X
> ...



Sorry, can't help there! I know there are some senior BYO on VIC, so it may be a question of time before one succumb to the temptation to chime in... 

Cheers,

Andre


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## Proteinshake (May 7, 2020)

You can't go wrong with Seasonic, using X-Series mostly because though they're not fanless the fan only kicks in at a certain amount of load and by then everything else will eventually ramp up anyways. I wouldn't expect the PRIME 600 to meld down but rather to just shut off to protect itself.

Also I don't integrate spinning rust into my Systems anymore. SSDs/NVMEs have become dirty cheap and everything mechanical should go into a dedicated NAS.

For the rest of your system I think it will do pretty well. Personately I would go cheaper on the GPU and also choose AMD actually, NVIDIA has always been more problematic for me in the past and present.


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## José Herring (May 7, 2020)

Are you planning on one machine to rule them all or are you going to use your old i5 as an additional computer?


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## aaronventure (May 9, 2020)

thecompactor said:


> is the i7-9800X a good option?


Unless you have servers already running Intel chips, or are replacing a chip for a preset rig that you need up and running asap/don't wish to upgrade the motherboard, it makes no sense to buy Intel chips today. 

Especially if you're building a new rig. A 3900X will give you the same, if not better performance than that CPU at less than half the price. And you don't even have to upgrade its stock cooler.


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## Technostica (May 10, 2020)

aaronventure said:


> A 3900X will give you the same, if not better performance than that CPU at less than half the price. And you don't even have to upgrade its stock cooler.


The OP stated that they can get the Intel chip for just under $300.
I wouldn’t use any stock cooler if you want the quietest computer possible.
I would recommend looking at AMD for sure.


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## aaronventure (May 10, 2020)

Technostica said:


> The OP stated that they can get the Intel chip for just under $300.
> I wouldn’t use any stock cooler if you want the quietest computer possible.
> I would recommend looking at AMD for sure.


I misquoted, what I wanted to quote was


thecompactor said:


> Another possibility would be the *i9-9980-XE for $990*, but that stretches my budget too far for one component, even though that *seems like a great deal*.





Technostica said:


> I wouldn’t use any stock cooler if you want the quietest computer possible.


For quietest possible, yeah. If you have money to spend, why not. 3900X has lower TDP than 9800X, so the OP can put the $100 instead towards a better CPU, and get a 9980-XE-level or better CPU with 3900X, without upping his original CPU budget by more than $50. 

Wraith Prism ships with 3900X and works just fine. My last PC used to be very loud, I even had to build a small semi-open box around it to block out some of the noise, and even then the mic would pick it up at times.

With this one, whenever I enter the room I need to pause for a second because I always think it shut down unexpectedly since I can't hear it. Case and airflow play big roles as well (Fractal R6) in both sound damping and temperature, yet these factors aren't talked about nearly as much.


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## Technostica (May 10, 2020)

aaronventure said:


> For quietest possible, yeah. If you have money to spend, why not.


My Scythe Ninja cost just over £40 and is completely inaudible at 100% full load with decent temps even at 2AM when the background noise level is very low.
A small price to pay and especially in the context of the overall system cost.
With a CPU with a real world power consumption of 150W+ at load that gets harder.
In practice I don't suppose DAWs are typically running all cores at 100% and especially when you have 12 or more. 
As you said you have to optimise the whole system to achieve silence and that is rarely mentioned. 
Possibly because most people here aren't recording with microphones so the lowest noise floor isn't an issue!


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## easyrider (May 10, 2020)

What I would do is build a system based around a 3700x...and x570

Then I would sell the 3700x for little loss and plonk in a 4900x or a 4950x in September 
( if rumours are true for the release )


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## Proteinshake (May 10, 2020)

I've happily sold my 3700x/x570 setup a while ago. It just wasn't up to the task. I'm not talking performance here .. performance was great .. but it wasn't stable. Went back to Intel for stability and reliabilty, that's where it still shines.


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## easyrider (May 10, 2020)

Proteinshake said:


> I've happily sold my 3700x/x570 setup a while ago. It just wasn't up to the task. I'm not talking performance here .. performance was great .. but it wasn't stable. Went back to Intel for stability and reliabilty, that's where it still shines.



When was this?....If it was near release then adopting a new platform comes with being patient for Bios update and chipset updates that come regularly.

I built a 9900k system on release...basically returned it due to the massive power consumption and heat and it only having 8 core 16 threads...for the same cost....

Bought a 3900X stuck with it through bios updates and chipset driver releases and it’s been one of the most stable smooth cool and quiet systems I have built...In fact I’ve built probably 60 Machines over the years and the 3900X is imo a legendary chip.

The power consumption, temps , core count and performance for the price amaze me on a daily basis...Plus it’s only even more heart warming I can update my bios and plonk in a new 4950x to get even more cores and performed down the line...

The statement that intel offer stability...is not really accurate...If you built a machine based on x570 and didn’t stick with bios updates and chipset updates then that is just lack of experience in hardware...not the platform. Which is rock solid.


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## easyrider (May 10, 2020)

You only have to look at the latest release form intel to clearly see they are in trouble...

The 10900k only 10 core 20 threads still based on old 14nm and not supporting PCIE 4

Not only that, you need a new Motherboard in socket 1200

Like I said in another thread...

AMD release new chips for current and older motherboards.

Intel release old chips for new motherboards.


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## Proteinshake (May 10, 2020)

easyrider said:


> The statement that intel offer stability...is not really accurate...If you built a machine based on x570 and didn’t stick with bios updates and chipset updates then that is just lack of experience in hardware...not the platform. Which is rock solid.



I think most people here got other things to do than update their AGESAs every one or two weeks but prefer to have a system that just works from day one and gets out of their way.

If you're the kind of guy who likes tinkering and wasting hours on getting something to run decent - that's ok, I'm not saying it doesn't fit your bill.


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## Technostica (May 10, 2020)

easyrider said:


> What I would do is build a system based around a 3700x...and x570
> Then I would sell the 3700x for little loss and plonk in a 4900x or a 4950x in September
> ( if rumours are true for the release )


For those that don't need more than 8 cores the presumed 4700X along with the soon to be released B550 looks to be good value.
The advantage of the 8 core is that I think Zen 3 for the first time has a native 8 core complex with a unified cache and latency, whereas the 12 core and up have a more variable latency due to their even more modular nature.
In theory your O/S might be able to mitigate against this being an issue, but we area talking about MS here so it might take a while before that gets sorted.


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## easyrider (May 10, 2020)

Proteinshake said:


> I think most people here got other things to do than update their AGESAs every one or two weeks but prefer to have a system that just works from day one and gets out of their way.
> 
> If you're the kind of guy who likes tinkering and wasting hours on getting something to run decent - that's ok, I'm not saying it doesn't fit your bill.



Updating a bios takes minutes...not hours....

Stability with Intel is placebo being it years old tech....

More misinformation again in your post.


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## easyrider (May 10, 2020)

Technostica said:


> For those that don't need more than 8 cores the presumed 4700X along with the soon to be released B550 looks to be good value.
> The advantage of the 8 core is that I think Zen 3 for the first time has a native 8 core complex with a unified cache and latency, whereas the 12 core and up have a more variable latency due to their even more modular nature.
> In theory your O/S might be able to mitigate against this being an issue, but we area talking about MS here so it might take a while before that gets sorted.



Indeed the B550 and a 4700x will only highlight the inferior expensive non entity the current offerings from Intel are...

Disclaimer : The majority of my my PC builds have been intel since Opteron 170...however AMD are the compelling choice now and they are clearly back in the game.

This is only good for consumers...I’ll buy the biggest bang for my buck...I don’t care who makes what....but when a company like intel release garbage like 10900k on a new socket on 14nm the choice is so clear AMD is the wise decision.


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## muk (May 10, 2020)

easyrider said:


> but when a company like intel release garbage like 10900k on a new socket on 14nm the choice is so clear AMD is the wise decision.



Except if you are using UAD pcie cards, in which case they may not be detected if you are running a ryzen chip. So it's not like Intel is all bad and AMD is all dandy.


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## Proteinshake (May 10, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Updating a bios takes minutes...not hours....
> 
> Stability with Intel is placebo being it years old tech....
> 
> More misinformation again in your post.



Well, good thing then you're only giving advise to DIY musicians/composers. You'd have a hard time in the Enterprise world with its old shitty legacy tech and requirements ... 

Like I said. Bleeding edge is totally fine if you've still got enough hair to pull out. I still remember when Athlon XP was the king of the hill .. until you removed the CPU cooler. Today the cooler sits on top of the X570 chipset.

It's stupid things like that costing AMD its lead and will happen again. And putting out systems only usable after updating and updating and updating truely is proof for the quality and the maturity of the design.

Check out all the "Flagship Systems" of prominent System Builders. How would you explain them having an Intel Badge? Are all these companies misinformed like me?

Edit: you know you've almost made me feel bad for I'm defenately running old crap! Haswell-E and Broadwell-E .. so legacy. But then I've decided to have a look at http://xi-machines.com/en/systems-audio-x3.php and it brought back the smile in my face.


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## aaronventure (May 10, 2020)

Proteinshake said:


> Edit: you know you've almost made me feel bad for I'm defenately running old crap! Haswell-E and Broadwell-E .. so legacy. But then I've decided to have a look at http://xi-machines.com/en/systems-audio-x3.php and it brought back the smile in my face.


Is... that a $250 GPU in a $9k rig running 4 year old Intel CPUs? And a 240 GB SSD? 32GB DDR4 at 2400 MHz? Where are the other $8500 going to?

This looks about 4x overpriced for the performance you're getting and something only someone misinformed would buy. The only other people paying $2500 for that CPU are the ones who are expanding their existing server farms or are replacing them.


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## Proteinshake (May 10, 2020)

aaronventure said:


> Is... that a $250 GPU in a $9k rig running 4 year old Intel CPUs? And a 240 GB SSD? 32GB DDR4 at 2400 MHz? Where are the other $8500 going to?



It sure isn't a bang for the buck! But then again people are spending thousands more on a new Mac Pro that doesn't deliver *that *much more performance. At some point things start getting rediculous anyways.

I mean seriously guys: are you going to throw extra compressors, EQs and whatnot on something just because you have the theoretical calculating power? Is anybody now creating 600 surplus tracks of something just to see the load meter go up?

I suspect at least some of the price comes from a lot of testing and trying beforehand. Look at Puget Systems and how they meticulously create Workstations for the Pro user. Having their own Lab testing everything, including thermals, noise, software compatablity .. even tweaking fan curves, custom firmware etc., it's the kind of time, research and detail you don't get if you're just lucking at a price tag and throwing a bunch of hardware in the basket, expecting it to work out perfectly. It rarely does.

People depending on their machines to run gladly spend that much. I doubt they even care if it's Intel, AMD or a Chinese x86 for as long as it does the job and does it reliably.

Fun fact however: I don't seem to find any AMD builds from Puget Systems either, huuummm. What could that possibly mean?


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## easyrider (May 10, 2020)

Proteinshake said:


> Like I said. Bleeding edge is totally fine if you've still got enough hair to pull out.



As said updating a bios is far from taxing.... Bios updates are good practice anyway especially for the intel security issues









Latest Intel CPUs have 'impossible to fix' security flaw


All Intel processors made in the last five years potentially at risk




www.techradar.com





Updating a Bios is good practice.



> It's stupid things like that costing AMD its lead and will happen again. And putting out systems only usable after updating and updating and updating truely is proof for the quality and the maturity of the design.



This is nonsense....Google, Sony, Twitter all have moved to using AMD chips...



> Check out all the "Flagship Systems" of prominent System Builders. How would you explain them having an Intel Badge? Are all these companies misinformed like me?
> 
> Edit: you know you've almost made me feel bad for I'm defenately running old crap! Haswell-E and Broadwell-E .. so legacy. But then I've decided to have a look at http://xi-machines.com/en/systems-audio-x3.php and it brought back the smile in my face.



Are you serious? This clearly highlights you have limited knowledge on the subject.


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## aaronventure (May 10, 2020)

Proteinshake said:


> It sure isn't a bang for the buck!


No, it's not! A decent 3900X rig will cost you around €2K (with VAT!!!), and you'll also get more and faster SSD storage, more RAM and a much better GPU. That's €9100 cheaper. It's the equivalent of the VAT you would pay for that absurdly overpriced rig.

That is crazy. It's a price of a decent used car.



Proteinshake said:


> It rarely does.


Of all the computers I've built since I was a little kid, I never built anything that didn't work if the components were fine. One rule that is absolutely true is that you get what you pay for, but on a component level (and do your homework). Paying a "pro builder" to overcharge me for putting together a PC with outdated, overpriced components makes zero sense to me. Or maybe I'm just in the wrong business.

Once you learn how to diagnose your PC by the process of elimination (it's fairly simple), replacement is a non-issue. If it's under warranty, take it out and get a new one. Otherwise buy a new one.

It's not worth a 50% markup. That's ridiculous. Plus whoever is selling these PCs for "audio pros" clearly has a target customer in mind, because that's as far from bang for buck as it goes.

I was putting together computers for people when I was 10 years old (OS installation and everything). It's Legos with electronics. And that was before YouTube.



Proteinshake said:


> if you're just lucking at a price tag and throwing a bunch of hardware in the basket, expecting it to work out perfectly.


Anybody who loves computers and posts on forums about computers will be more than happy to spend around 5 minutes of their time to put together a build for you within a budget you set. But even if you're shy and/or don't want others to help you, that's exactly how it works. Of course you'll read reviews before you buy. Of course, you'll also check compatibility before you buy. Pick a CPU, check socket, pick a motherboard, pick RAM, pick a GPU, pick your storage, pick a PSU.

I mean fuck, if you don't have an afternoon to do a little homework and figure out what to buy and an afternoon to you is worth more than €4k, then by all means.

Unless you're gonna have to have that super-professional PC shipped, at which point the whole story makes no sense since you can just waltz into your local hardware store and get all the parts immediately, and for less than half the price, then just go to a nearby college, find guys studying CS and offer to buy them lunch and $100 and they'll put it together for you right then and there.


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## easyrider (May 10, 2020)

aaronventure said:


> No, it's not! A decent 3900X rig will cost you around €2K (with VAT!!!), and you'll also get more and faster SSD storage, more RAM and a much better GPU. That's €9100 cheaper. It's the equivalent of the VAT you would pay for that absurdly overpriced rig.
> 
> That is crazy. It's a price of a decent used car.
> 
> ...



Its a joke PC and a Joke price


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## chimuelo (May 10, 2020)

thecompactor said:


> I am starting a new build and could use some critique. I'm moving up from an i5-3570K on an ASRock H77M with 16GB of DDR3. My parts list so far is:
> 
> Mobo: ASRock X299 STEEL LEGEND
> CPU: i7-9800X
> ...



As you can tell there’s a CPU war going on.
Ive got a Ryzen 3700X, an 8086k, and a few i7’s.
Pretty much all the same except Intel is better for low latency live performance.

Personally I’d wait for new CPUs and a couple reviews from ScanAudio.
If you must build now, a 6 core Intel or 8 core AMD will get you there.

Seems AMDs recent 3300X is less chiplets, lower latency and unified cache due to being a Quad Core. Next AMDs will be unified cache on all cores. Also can use X470 still. 3300X is a damn good chip. As is i5 10600k coming soon.

Intel keeps changing things and new motherboards every time.
Mother board manufacturers love them for that.

Ryzens and Latest Intels are all hot chips. Means they’re in a real race in 2020.
We’ll get some nice choices this time around. We win when there’s real competition.


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## easyrider (May 11, 2020)

muk said:


> Except if you are using UAD pcie cards, in which case they may not be detected if you are running a ryzen chip. So it's not like Intel is all bad and AMD is all dandy.



A few of the top vendors have recognised this and released updated Bios to fix the issue...


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## chimuelo (May 11, 2020)

Seems new AMDs 2nd half this year won’t be compatible with 470.
Glad they said something now.
I bought an ASRock Rack X470 so I could pop in a newer chip down the road.

Theyre catching onto the Intel tricks already..


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## Pictus (May 12, 2020)

Proteinshake said:


> It sure isn't a bang for the buck! But then again people are spending thousands more on a new Mac Pro that doesn't deliver *that *much more performance. At some point things start getting ridiculous anyways.



They are used to throwing money away with Apples, why expect different behavior with PCs...


> (...)
> Fun fact however: I don't seem to find any AMD builds from Puget Systems either, huuummm. What could that possibly mean?



I guess because it is less compatible and AMD systems needs more support than equivalent Intel systems...
Yesterday I updated the motherboard BIOS which included new AGESA, know what happened?
In the first BOOT Windows thought it was another machine and reactivated itself...
No problem, but imagine if for some reason it does not reactivate?
Now the worst part, I had to reinstall the GPU drivers...
Also reinstalled the chipset drivers too, just to be safe...
Anyway, the GPU problem was not evident at first, but when trying
to see a video or use any stuff that required "GPU power", the GPU/system crashed...
Any of this is not a problem for "power users", but for a common user this will
mean another call to Puget support...
But I also guess common users does not update the motherboard BIOS... 😆


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## Pictus (May 12, 2020)

chimuelo said:


> Seems new AMDs 2nd half this year won’t be compatible with 470.
> Glad they said something now.
> I bought an ASRock Rack X470 so I could pop in a newer chip down the road.
> 
> Theyre catching onto the Intel tricks already..



From 





The Exciting Future of AMD Socket AM4


In 2016, we made a pretty bold commitment to you: we would continue to support AMD Socket AM4 until 2020. It was a big promise, especially given what people were accustomed to with other platforms. In the four ensuing years, the humble Socket AM4 has been on an incredible trajectory: 4X more...




community.amd.com




"Q: What about (X pre-500 Series chipset)?
A: AMD has no plans to introduce “Zen 3” architecture support for older chipsets. 
While we wish could enable full support for every processor on every chipset, *the flash*
*memory chips that store BIOS settings and support have capacity limitations*. 
Given these limitations, and the unprecedented longevity of the AM4 socket, there will 
inevitably be a time and place where a transition to free up space is necessary— the 
AMD 500 Series chipsets are that time."

It is because most of old motherboards have 16MB BIOS chip, the 570 motherboards all
have at least 32MB, but MSI launched some older chipset motherboards with 32MB BIOS chips.








MSI’s fix for AMD Ryzen compatibility is to release new X470 and B450 Max boards


The old boards have little BIOS chips, but these new ones actually have space. Hope you haven't already bought your MSI board...




www.pcgamesn.com




They even have some "castrated BIOS" for the 16MB models





MSI Global - The Leading Brand in High-end Gaming & Professional Creation


As a world leading gaming brand, MSI is the most trusted name in gaming and eSports. We stand by our principles of breakthroughs in design, and roll out the amazing gaming gear like motherboards, graphics cards, laptops and desktops.




www.msi.com




Maybe MSI they will do the same again...


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## chimuelo (May 12, 2020)

That would be nice. But I’m such an ASRock Rack junkie I would likely just buy the new X570 mATX Rack version in late 2020.
I still have a few 2013/2014 H/Z97s from them being beaten up everyday that run great. Don’t mind paying a few hundred for a newer model even if it’s proprietary.
Pretty sure everyone else will follow MSI eventually.

ASRock Rack just announced their Z490 for 10 core Comet Lake.
Not meant to OC much but these CPUs can be up to 235 watts.
They know it’s for RackMount chassis, must have some serious VRMs and cooling.

cheerz


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## Mornats (May 12, 2020)

Just side-stepping the CPU discussion for a moment, is the OP going to be gaming on this PC? That 2070 Super GPU is a gaming card, nothing else. You could save a nice bit of money that could get you extra RAM or another SSD if you downgrade it to something that will just run your screens at the resolution you need. Dunno why but I always seem to see mid-range+ gaming cards in DAW builds and I can never understand the waste!


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