# The Orchestra Complete 3 and Woods of the Wild Released



## Best Service Wolfgang (Dec 9, 2022)

​*Best Service **The Orchestra Complete*, by Sonuscore, the flagship of our *The Orchestra* product family, receives the biggest upgrade ever and enters its third round.

May we introduce Best Service *The Orchestra Complete 3* by Sonuscore and Best Service *Woods Of The Wild* by Sonuscore to you?!





With *Woods Of The Wild*, the most recent addition to the *The Orchestra* universe, you can explore the enchanting, ethereal aspect of symphonic music. This groundbreaking, individually recorded woodwind section is obligatory for a rich and complete orchestral pallete.

*The Orchestra Complete 3* has not only been upgraded with *Woods Of The Wild*, but also received significant enhancements of the Ensemble Engine's key features.

*Sequence Designer *- Create your own individual musical patterns in addition to the standard options 
*Pure Performance Legato* - Play both fast true legato and staccato runs without any hassle 
*Voicing Selection via Main Page *- Create more realistic ensemble sounds
*Additional presets and multi-instrument*s - Now included are Voicings (208 presets), Rhythms (239 presets) & Animated Orchestra (223 presets)
But nothing describes all the new features and recordings better than our trailer:





Everybody who already owns a product out of the *The Orchestra* family can benefit from our *Up- and Crossgrades*.

from *The Orchestra Complete* 1 or 2
from *The Orchestra*
from *The Orchestra Essentials*
from *Strings of Winter, Horns of Hell* or *Woods of the Wild*
We wish you lots of fun with our latest products.


----------



## Frederick (Dec 9, 2022)

Instant buy for me!


----------



## cqd (Dec 9, 2022)

Same price for owners of 1 or 2?..
Steep too..I'm going to pass I reckon..I had been planning on getting it, but the price for upgrade from toc2 should be half of what it is..


----------



## Owen Smith (Dec 9, 2022)

Omg, this looks amazing! The sequence designer, improved legato, tonal percussion, celesta, woodwinds, new rhythms, voicings, and FX are a huge upgrade to the already great features I have in TOC 2. As someone that prefers the softer side of the orchestra, the new features and additions, are really appealing to me and I think this will really compliment libraries like Lumina 2. Some of the sections from the comparison document and preset playthrough that I'm really excited about are:


----------



## Owen Smith (Dec 9, 2022)

cqd said:


> Same price for owners of 1 or 2?..
> Steep too..I'm going to pass I reckon..I had been planning on getting it, but the price for upgrade from toc2 should be half of what it is..


@cqd I felt the same way about the TOC 1 and TOC 2 upgrades previously. The upgrade pathways definitely favored new customers over existing ones who have already paid for each upgrade. I didn't like the way that felt as a loyal customer. It would definitely be nice if the TOC 2 to TOC 3 upgrade was $49 rather than $99. At the same time, the amount of new features and innovation in TOC3 seem to me to be more justifiable of the upgrade prices this time around. I'm going to have to wait a little bit to pick it up, but I am more excited about this update than the last ones.


----------



## Orpheus Glory (Dec 9, 2022)

I agree that the upgrade from TOC2 should have been less. I'll probably wait with the upgrade.

Anyway, these pure performance legatos are interesting. That French horn sounds pretty darn amazing! I'll stick to Nucleus for the oboe though..


----------



## shadoe42 (Dec 9, 2022)

I just got ToC2... at 99 to upgrade it can wait. I am sure I will pick it up eventually though haha


----------



## Spid (Dec 9, 2022)

Quickly installed it, quickly tried it, and I love it.

I will definitely add it to my new giant Template


----------



## d4vec4rter (Dec 9, 2022)

Bumsicles!!! Spent a fortune over Black Friday and they're now bringing new stuff out I'm finding too difficult to resist. Just purchased Luftrum's Lunaris 2 this morning (which is fab btw) and now this!!! Please, please, PLEEEAAAAASE!!!! No more!


----------



## shropshirelad (Dec 9, 2022)

cqd said:


> Same price for owners of 1 or 2?..
> Steep too..I'm going to pass I reckon..I had been planning on getting it, but the price for upgrade from toc2 should be half of what it is..


I agree but I'll probably wait for it to appear somewhere where I can apply a code to bring it towards the price I'm prepared to pay. Some other companies (IK for one) are well known for overcharging for updates/upgrades and it really doesn't build loyalty to the brand.


----------



## JSteel (Dec 9, 2022)

For what you get, the Upgrade-Price is totally fine with me. Also it would be much more when we talk about some other Vendors, i don't name them, but you all know.


----------



## Lars Hogendoorn (Dec 9, 2022)

Spid said:


> Quickly installed it, quickly tried it, and I love it.
> 
> I will definitely add it to my new giant Template


Do you have the impression that the already existing sounds have been upgraded too? Or is that still the same? The demo’s sound gorgeous, of course…. I’m in doubt about upgrading from 2 to 3…


----------



## cqd (Dec 9, 2022)

shropshirelad said:


> I agree but I'll probably wait for it to appear somewhere where I can apply a code to bring it towards the price I'm prepared to pay. Some other companies (IK for one) are well known for overcharging for updates/upgrades and it really doesn't build loyalty to the brand.


It really doesn't..does the exact opposite..


----------



## ism (Dec 9, 2022)

Very interesting indeed.

Just to check, it $149 the intro pricing for just the woodwinds, or the regular price?


----------



## Simon Schrenk (Dec 9, 2022)

Lars Hogendoorn said:


> Do you have the impression that the already existing sounds have been upgraded too? Or is that still the same? The demo’s sound gorgeous, of course…. I’m in doubt about upgrading from 2 to 3…


We re-did the legato engine completely. You can now play short notes and long legato passages without keyswitching:



and we replaced the existing Woodwinds Section with completely new recordings for:
Flute 1
Flute 2
Alto Flute
Piccolo Flute
Oboe 1
Oboe 2
English Horn
Clarinet 1
Clarinet 2
Bass Clarinet
Bassoon 1
Bassoon 2
Contrabassoon

And some additional articulations with a woodwind ensemble.

All in all there are over 100 new single instruments/articulations compared to the previous version.

For downwards compatibility the replaced instruments are still included in the Legacy folder, so old projects still find the instruments when you need to revisit older projects!


----------



## Spid (Dec 9, 2022)

Lars Hogendoorn said:


> Do you have the impression that the already existing sounds have been upgraded too? Or is that still the same? The demo’s sound gorgeous, of course…. I’m in doubt about upgrading from 2 to 3…


I can’t say… I hadn’t had the time yet to try the version 2 that the version 3 arrived. I’m quite new and didn’t have the time to really dig deeply to all libraries I already have. Too much stuff, not enough time!


----------



## davidson (Dec 9, 2022)

Does TOC3 replace TOC2, or do we need to keep both installed?


----------



## sostenuto (Dec 9, 2022)

Attractive Crossgrade from TOC2 !! 
Pleased to have passed on couple recent BlkFri/CyberMon _ Orch promos. 

TOC is enjoyable for this 'pianist' to play 'conductor' !! 😜


----------



## Lukas (Dec 9, 2022)

davidson said:


> Does TOC3 replace TOC2, or do we need to keep both installed?



You *can* replace it without any issues.


Simon Schrenk said:


> For downwards compatibility the replaced instruments are still included in the Legacy folder, so old projects still find the instruments when you need to revisit older projects!


----------



## Lukas (Dec 9, 2022)

Trailer:



Presets:


----------



## davidson (Dec 9, 2022)

@Lukas I saw that but it's still unclear. The orchestra 2 currently installs in a folder called 'The Orchestra Complete 2 Library', so what happens, V3 installs in the same folder? How will kontakt locate the necessary files in old projects if the folder path changes? Also as far as I remember, TOC2 didnt replace TOC1, they had to be installed side-by-side if you had projects which used TOC1. @SONUSCORE


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 9, 2022)

davidson said:


> I saw that but it's still unclear. The orchestra 2 currently installs in a folder called 'The Orchestra Complete 2 Library', so what happens, V3 installs in the same folder? How will kontakt locate the necessary files in old projects if the folder path changes? Also as far as I remember, TOC2 didnt replace TOC1, they had to be installed side-by-side if you had projects which used TOC1. @SONUSCORE


If you buy from Best Service there is a sheet that tells you how to install it so the legacy version is inside the same folder. It's not clear if you choose to install TOC3 in a different place whether it will be complete or whether it is expecting that the samples from TOC1/2 will be present. I can't say these are easiest instructions to follow...


----------



## AndreasHe (Dec 9, 2022)

Bought version 2 just 2 weeks ago and now would need to pay $99 again for the latest version? Feels a bit like bought the old obsolecent model. For such cases many provide a kinda grace upgrade for free or very reduced price.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 9, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> If you buy from Best Service there is a sheet that tells you how to install it so the legacy version is inside the same folder. It's not clear if you choose to install TOC3 in a different place whether it will be complete or whether it is expecting that the samples from TOC1/2 will be present. I can't say these are easiest instructions to follow...


The download speed from Best Service is glacial...


----------



## JSteel (Dec 9, 2022)

AndreasHe said:


> Bought version 2 just 2 weeks ago and now would need to pay $99 again for the latest version? Feels a bit like bought the old obsolecent model. For such cases many provide a kinda grace upgrade for free or very reduced price.


Am i guessing right that you bought it on the BF-Discount?


----------



## shropshirelad (Dec 9, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> If you buy from Best Service there is a sheet that tells you how to install it so the legacy version is inside the same folder. It's not clear if you choose to install TOC3 in a different place whether it will be complete or whether it is expecting that the samples from TOC1/2 will be present. I can't say these are easiest instructions to follow...


I'm pretty sure that I've various versions of TO/TOC/TOC2 sitting on my drives due to the installation instructions being as clear as mud. Pretty certain I could delete some of them but don't want to risk it.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 9, 2022)

shropshirelad said:


> I'm pretty sure that I've various versions of TO/TOC/TOC2 sitting on my drives due to the installation instructions being as clear as mud. Pretty certain I could delete some of them but don't want to risk it.


In some ways, I'd rather just install it clean, since there isn't room on the disk with TOC1. I can then remove the old version if I decide to... Hoping when I finally get it all downloaded, it will let me do that.


----------



## JSteel (Dec 9, 2022)

You can delete the old versions without any problems, you just have to locate the new one in NA.

In case you want keep the old one, you just have to rename the old so that NA can't find it anymore and then locate to the new folder.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 9, 2022)

JSteel said:


> You can delete the old versions without any problems, you just have to locate the new one in NI.


Does the new installation reinstall everything if you are upgrading? That's not clear from the instructions, but seems likely from the size of the rar files.


----------



## JSteel (Dec 9, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Does the new installation reinstall everything if you are upgrading? That's not clear from the instructions, but seems likely from the size of the rar files.


There is no Installation-routine, you just download the new TOC3 folder and copy it to your desired place, rename or delete the old folder and then locate in Native Access to the new one.


----------



## sostenuto (Dec 9, 2022)

shropshirelad said:


> I'm pretty sure that I've various versions of TO/TOC/TOC2 sitting on my drives due to the installation instructions being as clear as mud. Pretty certain I could delete some of them but don't want to risk it.


Got a LaCie d2 -18TB just for this sort of craziness. 🤪


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 9, 2022)

JSteel said:


> There is no Installation-routine, you just download the new TOC3 folder and copy it to your desired place, rename or delete the old folder and then locate in Native Access to the new one.


Best Service begs to differ.












I mean, I understand that you are right, it's just that the Best Service instructions don't actually say you can do this.


----------



## JSteel (Dec 9, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Best Service begs to differ.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It states that you have to rename the old one. After done this, it is not existent anymore for NA.
At this point you can keep the renamed or delete it. The renaming is just to force NA to ask for the right folder, so you can lead NA to the new folder.


----------



## AMBi (Dec 9, 2022)

ism said:


> Very interesting indeed.
> 
> Just to check, it $149 the intro pricing for just the woodwinds, or the regular price?


Best Service tends to not do intro prices on a lot of their stuff so it seems to be the regular price. 
Which is nice since there’s no rush to pick it up.


----------



## davidson (Dec 9, 2022)

JSteel said:


> You can delete the old versions without any problems, you just have to locate the new one in NA.
> 
> In case you want keep the old one, you just have to rename the old so that NA can't find it anymore and then locate to the new folder.


So if I delete TOC2 and install TOC3, old projects which used TOC2 will automatically use TOC3?


----------



## JSteel (Dec 9, 2022)

davidson said:


> So if I delete TOC2 and install TOC3, old projects which used TOC2 will automatically use TOC3?


The official answer from Simon Schrenk:

"For downwards compatibility the replaced instruments are still included in the Legacy folder, so old projects still find the instruments when you need to revisit older projects!"


----------



## Spid (Dec 9, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> The download speed from Best Service is glacial...


No issue for me, I got it downloaded in 15mn… (like 1mn per file). I have a 2Gbps Fiber here, maybe that helps, but either way, I didn’t noticed any speed problem from Best Service servers.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 9, 2022)

Spid said:


> No issue for me, I got it downloaded in 15mn… (like 1mn per file). I have a 2Gbps Fiber here, maybe that helps, but either way, I didn’t noticed any speed problem from Best Service servers.


Yeah, I'm still waiting for the first four files to download. Testing the connection, everything seems ok, but clearly something is up. It doesn't usually take this long.


----------



## davidson (Dec 9, 2022)

JSteel said:


> The official answer from Simon Schrenk:
> 
> "For downwards compatibility the replaced instruments are still included in the Legacy folder, so old projects still find the instruments when you need to revisit older projects!"


Great, cheers. I hope it works as seamlessly as Simon makes it sound.


----------



## d4vec4rter (Dec 9, 2022)

No issues here. Just download it, place it where you want, rename or just delete your old folder then relocate in NA. You will have to go into the Windows Registry Editor and delete the appropriate key though if you want NA to correctly give the version number.

All pretty straightforward though.


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 9, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Yeah, I'm still waiting for the first four files to download. Testing the connection, everything seems ok, but clearly something is up. It doesn't usually take this long.


Something seems to be up here too - some parts are downloading at 20MB/s (a couple of minutes), while others are coming down capped at 200KB/s (several hours)!


----------



## JSteel (Dec 9, 2022)

Just wondering if there went something wrong on the release, in the Multis i still have the same amount as in TOC2.

Orchestral Colors - 80
Orchestral Rhythms - 80
Animated Orchestra - 70

Also, they are all dated from 17.12.2021 while the Multis from TOC2 are dated from 31.05.2022.
Which means the TOC3 Multis are older than the TOC2 Multis.


----------



## JSteel (Dec 9, 2022)

Virtuoso said:


> Something seems to be up here too - some parts are downloading at 20MB/s (a couple of minutes), while others are coming down capped at 200KB/s (several hours)!


I didn't had any issues, but i downloaded them one after another.


----------



## Orpheus Glory (Dec 9, 2022)

Virtuoso said:


> Something seems to be up here too - some parts are downloading at 20MB/s (a couple of minutes), while others are coming down capped at 200KB/s (several hours)!


I think the downloader just prioritize one at a time, so there will always be one going on maximum speed.


----------



## AndyP (Dec 9, 2022)

Can someone who has TOC 3 post an example of the new legato with the strings? There are no examples of the strings from Sonuscore, unfortunately.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 9, 2022)

Finally downloaded and extracted. So basically what the upgrade does is substitute TOC 3 for TOC1 or TOC 2 and uses that for the Kontakt Player license.


----------



## sostenuto (Dec 9, 2022)

Hmmmmm ....... happy to wait a bit to Crossgrade and follow how this sorts. 
Should be quite straight forward. 🤷🏻


----------



## Rich4747 (Dec 9, 2022)

ok just got it installed, and I am still checking out strings sustain voicing 1 . this plain patch sounds much richer, grown up. its like TOC went to finishing school and is ready for the Big show. I have a good feeling about this. Revoicing and orchestrating adds so much to even the old presets.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 9, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Hmmmmm ....... happy to wait a bit to Crossgrade and follow how this sorts.
> Should be quite straight forward. 🤷🏻


You can just ignore the instructions aside from renaming TOC so Native Access asks you to find the library and you can point it at TOC 3. Or if you like to live dangerously you can just delete the existing TOC 1 or 2. TOC will replace it. Just be sure to copy any presets or new patches you have made.


----------



## Greyscale (Dec 9, 2022)

Does anyone else experience CPU Spikes with this? I downloaded it and tried it and especially the Woodwinds had heavy clicks and pops in it and then I realised it causes CPU spikes within the DAW (Studio One, Cubase, Bitwig) but also if I use it in Kontakt 7 standalone? My CPU is at about 35%. The legacy patches are all good, also the Strings are alright.
Do I miss something?? 
I should add, its only the Legato Patches.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 9, 2022)

So as far as I can tell, the flute marcato is not behaving properly when triggered by the arpeggiator. It always plays super loud no matter what the arpeggiator setting is at. A good example is Lux Noctis. Does anyone else have this issue?


----------



## peterharket (Dec 10, 2022)

@Best Service Wolfgang 
I have an EDU copy of the orchestra complete 2. Does upgrading lead to any problems with such a license, or am I good to go?


----------



## Lars Hogendoorn (Dec 10, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> So as far as I can tell, the flute marcato is not behaving properly when triggered by the arpeggiator. It always plays super loud no matter what the arpeggiator setting is at. A good example is Lux Noctis. Does anyone else have this issue?


I don’t know, but maybe arps are just meant for shorts, and a marcato is not considered a short?


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 10, 2022)

Lars Hogendoorn said:


> I don’t know, but maybe arps are just meant for shorts, and a marcato is not considered a short?


Lux Noctis is a factory preset. All of these overeager flute marcatos are.

(Edited for clarity.)


----------



## Rich4747 (Dec 10, 2022)

Greyscale said:


> Does anyone else experience CPU Spikes with this? I downloaded it and tried it and especially the Woodwinds had heavy clicks and pops in it and then I realised it causes CPU spikes within the DAW (Studio One, Cubase, Bitwig) but also if I use it in Kontakt 7 standalone? My CPU is at about 35%. The legacy patches are all good, also the Strings are alright.
> Do I miss something??
> I should add, its only the Legato Patches.


yes I am finding that I need to turn up my audio buffer, but what I get in exchange for that is good stuff. voiced and orchestrated presets are better than just layered and stacked instruments. If you ask me there is no going back.


----------



## ptram (Dec 10, 2022)

I have to admit that I've yet to understand what is new, if switching from TOC2 to TOC3.

Paolo


----------



## Lars Hogendoorn (Dec 10, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Lux Noctis is a factory preset. All of these overeager flute marcatos are.
> 
> (Edited for charity.)


Now I am very curious what you edited out…. But it does sound strange!


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 10, 2022)

Lars Hogendoorn said:


> Now I am very curious what you edited out…. But it does sound strange!


Stupid autocorrect. It should have read edited for clarity. I didn't really change anything; just made it clear I was talking about the flute marcato in a factory preset and that I have encountered the issue of the flute marcato being ridiculously loud in a number of presets. I'm still wondering if anyone else is having the issue.

ETA: A restart of the computer seems to have solved whatever issue I was having with the flute marcato.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 10, 2022)

ptram said:


> I have to admit that I've yet to understand what is new, if switching from TOC2 to TOC3.
> 
> Paolo


The woodwinds have been augmented much the way the low brass were augmented in the update from TOC1 to TOC2. To me the woods of the wild additions seem broadly more useful than the horns from hell did. The manual claims TOC3 has also added performance legato patches throughout the library, but I haven't yet explored that.


----------



## CG Smith (Dec 10, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> The woodwinds have been augmented much the way the low brass were augmented in the update from TOC1 to TOC2. To me the woods of the wild additions seem broadly more useful than the horns from hell did. The manual claims TOC3 has also added performance legato patches throughout the library, but I haven't yet explored that.


Aside from these two points, the other major items are the addition of the Sequencer and Chord Voicing selection.
Which, if I understand correctly, basically brings the Ensemble Engine up to parity with Sonuscore's work on the Hollywood Orchestrator.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 10, 2022)

CG Smith said:


> Aside from these two points, the other major items are the addition of the Sequencer and Chord Voicing selection.
> Which, if I understand correctly, basically brings the Ensemble Engine up to parity with Sonuscore's work on the Hollywood Orchestrator.


I thought at least some of the chord voicing capability has been part of the engine since it was introduced. It's been awhile since I've used it extensively but I have recollections of assigning different slots to play different parts of the midi input.


----------



## CG Smith (Dec 10, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I thought at least some of the chord voicing capability has been part of the engine since it was introduced. It's been awhile since I've used it extensively but I have recollections of assigning different slots to play different parts of the midi input.


Yes, I think it has been expanded for TOC3 though.
I haven't properly compared the TOC2/TOC3 functionality yet, however, so I'm just reacting to the product description.
Certainly the Sequencer was something in Orchestrator that wasn't in TOC2 and I was hoping it would make it into TOC3.


----------



## Lars Hogendoorn (Dec 10, 2022)

CG Smith said:


> Aside from these two points, the other major items are the addition of the Sequencer and Chord Voicing selection.
> Which, if I understand correctly, basically brings the Ensemble Engine up to parity with Sonuscore's work on the Hollywood Orchestrator.


If anyone who knows could confirm this, I’d be very interested to know!


----------



## Bereckis (Dec 10, 2022)

Can someone who has upgraded to TOC3 please tell me if it looks the same for them.

Are the multis only for TOC2?

Thank you.


----------



## KarlHeinz (Dec 10, 2022)

This seems to be the strangest installation process I ever went threw and I cant remember having these problems while upgrading to TOC2......

Just wanted to follow the instructions after being sent from the develloper Sonuscore (upgrade is 10 € cheaper then from bestservice) to bestservice and having already renamed TOC2 following the strange instructions (never had this kind of stuff with any othe NI library) when I realized that the actual project I want to open has TOC2 in it.....

Gladly I realized before opening....

Wonder what will be next in the installation process (especially with NI access being buggy as hell in the last weeks).


----------



## davidson (Dec 10, 2022)

@jbuhler Can you confirm that projects you used TOC2 in still open and play back ok with TOC3? Do they open the TOC3 engine?


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 10, 2022)

davidson said:


> @jbuhler Can you confirm that projects you used TOC2 in still open and play back ok with TOC3? Do they open the TOC3 engine?


I don't have TOC 2, only TOC 1. Let me look for a project that used TOC 1 and see if it opens properly.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 10, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> This seems to be the strangest installation process I ever went threw and I cant remember having these problems while upgrading to TOC2......
> 
> Just wanted to follow the instructions after being sent from the develloper Sonuscore (upgrade is 10 € cheaper then from bestservice) to bestservice and having already renamed TOC2 following the strange instructions (never had this kind of stuff with any othe NI library) when I realized that the actual project I want to open has TOC2 in it.....
> 
> ...


So TOC3 contains TOC2 and TOC1 in toto. There shouldn't be an issue unless you made your own patches, in which case you will have to move those into the TOC3 folder. The reason for the convoluted installation, I think, is because Sonuscore is reusing the TOC1 and/or TOC2 Kontakt licenses for TOC3. So you rename TOC1 or TOC2 to "legacy" so that Native Access can't find it. Then you point Native Access to the new TOC3, and Native Access thinks it is the same TOC that has already been authorized. Kontakt then lets you use TOC under the old license...

What happens with the patches that are updated, like the new legato? I'm not sure. I kept TOC 1 intact for now in case I need to access anything from it.


----------



## michelleof7 (Dec 10, 2022)

No new multis??
The website (content compare document) seems to indicate there are *no* new multis in TOC3. 
Can someone that has TOC3 verify whether this is actually true? It seems strange they would add 100 new instruments/articulations but not add any new multis that incorporate all those new instruments/articulations.


----------



## Bereckis (Dec 10, 2022)

I contacted Sonuscore for support on Friday. As soon as I get an answer, I will get back to you.


----------



## Dex (Dec 10, 2022)

AndyP said:


> Can someone who has TOC 3 post an example of the new legato with the strings? There are no examples of the strings from Sonuscore, unfortunately.


Yes, with a mixture of fast staccato and legato lines mixed in with the longer lines, please! Very intrigued by this whole "no key switches" thing.


----------



## AndreasHe (Dec 10, 2022)

JSteel said:


> Am i guessing right that you bought it on the BF-Discount?


Yes. Meanwhile I just spent the 99$ as I have to say the TOC2 satisfied me very well. But if I would have had no previous discount, I would be simply angry.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 10, 2022)

So I don't understand the performance legato.






Here's the legato patch loaded alone:

View attachment Screen Recording 2022-12-10 at 10.54.07 PM-MP4 720.mp4


And the legato from the all articulations:

View attachment Screen Recording 2022-12-10 at 10.54.24 PM-MP4 720.mp4


Besides the issues with not rendering the repeated notes of the first passage. Neither sounds like staccato notes, and indeed if I shorten the notes, they don't play the run at all. So it seems I just don't understand how this functionality is supposed to work.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 10, 2022)

Here's a clarinet passage from one of Sonuscore's videos:



I can't get the clarinet even close on the pick up notes. it seems to be trying to insert a legato transition.


View attachment Screen Recording 2022-12-10 at 11.18.15 PM-MP4 720.mp4


ETA: Sent Sonuscore a support ticket on the legato.


----------



## KarlHeinz (Dec 11, 2022)

Download is an absolute horror......you cant even continue the download with these even if the browser supports it.....started yesterday afternoon, let it run threw the night with the second part (6 files), tomorrow only 2 had been regularly finished 

Now again a download failed, so up from zero to 2 GB again.....

Never had that kind of trouble with bestservice before...and BF is over....


----------



## mixolydian (Dec 11, 2022)

@jbuhler I can't reproduce your issues with the non working notes in Cubase.

The dedicated flute legato patch sounds different than legato in all articulations. I'd guess the dedicated legato patch sounds as it should. The staccato overlay is more prominent compared to your both renditions I would say.

The patches seemed a bit glitchy so far, e.g. when I switched between the clarinet patches it seems the staccato overlay in the legato was gone, but have to fiddle bit more to be sure.

@KarlHeinz Download was flawless here, guess the server is limiting to 25 MBit/s or similar, when back from a bit of dish washing the downloads where finished.


----------



## chrisav (Dec 11, 2022)

Missed opportunity not calling this expansion "Breath of the Wild" 

🤓🤓🤓


----------



## milford59 (Dec 11, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> Download is an absolute horror......you cant even continue the download with these even if the browser supports it.....started yesterday afternoon, let it run threw the night with the second part (6 files), tomorrow only 2 had been regularly finished
> 
> Now again a download failed, so up from zero to 2 GB again.....
> 
> Never had that kind of trouble with bestservice before...and BF is over....


Are you using a download manager ? The instructions specifically say not to….. I downloaded the RAR files one by one manually and installed, as per the instructions, with no issues. YMMV. Hope you get it sorted.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 11, 2022)

mixolydian said:


> @jbuhler I can't reproduce your issues with the non working notes in Cubase.
> 
> The dedicated flute legato patch sounds different than legato in all articulations. I'd guess the dedicated legato patch sounds as it should. The staccato overlay is more prominent compared to your both renditions I would say.
> 
> The patches seemed a bit glitchy so far, e.g. when I switched between the clarinet patches it seems the staccato overlay in the legato was gone, but have to fiddle bit more to be sure.



Thanks for checking. I have a support ticket submitted. I get the same issue in Kontakt standalone. I’ve also restarted the computer.


----------



## KarlHeinz (Dec 11, 2022)

milford59 said:


> Are you using a download manager ? The instructions specifically say not to….. I downloaded the RAR files one by one manually and installed, as per the instructions, with no issues. YMMV. Hope you get it sorted.


Finally worked after some more tries. No, I dont use any external download manager, only taking a few files at the same time and then firefox download takes care of it (use this method since I dont know when and if always worked with bestservice and other shops too). With my download speed and 12 files using file after file I would have been busy threw the whole night manually. And as this usually had worked fine with bestservice (and lot of other shops)....

The main problem is that usually if something brokes (for example provider cuts connection for a short time at midnight) you can simply continue the download and it continues from the point where the download stops. This time that just dont work, it always starts from 0 again. So the part 3 I have to download 3 times this way....But at least its working now


----------



## KarlHeinz (Dec 11, 2022)

mixolydian said:


> @KarlHeinz Download was flawless here, guess the server is limiting to 25 MBit/s or similar, when back from a bit of dish washing the downloads where finished.


25 Mbit, what a dream......if I am lucky at night I get 10 % of it (1-1,8 MBit).....


----------



## tmhuud (Dec 11, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> Finally worked after some more tries. No, I dont use any external download manager, only taking a few files at the same time and then firefox download takes care of it (use this method since I dont know when and if always worked with bestservice and other shops too). With my download speed and 12 files using file after file I would have been busy threw the whole night manually. And as this usually had worked fine with bestservice (and lot of other shops)....
> 
> The main problem is that usually if something brokes (for example provider cuts connection for a short time at midnight) you can simply continue the download and it continues from the point where the download stops. This time that just dont work, it always starts from 0 again. So the part 3 I have to download 3 times this way....But at least its working now


Good luck. I downloaded all 12 files and KEKA (which is what they TELL you to use failed in extraction.) I’ll try again… Seems to be an issue with PART 7.


----------



## tmhuud (Dec 11, 2022)

Funny thing. First attempt, everything downloaded in 15 minutes. And NOW it’s taking HOURS for 2 files….


----------



## chopin4525 (Dec 11, 2022)

I was taking a look at the instruments pdf and noticed the basses don't benefit from the new legato. Is there a reason for that (like they take too much space) or there is a chance they will come in some future updates?


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 11, 2022)

tmhuud said:


> Funny thing. First attempt, everything downloaded in 15 minutes. And NOW it’s taking HOURS for 2 files….


It took me about 6 hours for the full set of files. Which is slow for me, but the local internet has also been acting off for the past month so it might have been that.


----------



## Sirocco (Dec 11, 2022)

Bereckis said:


> Can someone who has upgraded to TOC3 please tell me if it looks the same for them.
> 
> Are the multis only for TOC2?
> 
> Thank you.


I think so, same for me here, no errors installing and multis are TOC2, i think that they do not add any more multis, at least in that form inside Kontakt, many new presets but no multis.

Let´s wait what they tell you at B.S.

Salute.


----------



## Akat1 (Dec 11, 2022)

I had these two posts in another thread here. I'm not quite sure how to quote those posts, so I just copied them. Hope they give some insight on issues some might be having.


Akat1​Member​
Friday at 10:37 PM

Add bookmark
#46
Been messing around with it for around two hours now. I love The Orchestra Complete 2, but this one so far has some weird quirks.

1. I had 1 user created patch. And after updating to 3, when ever I would click on it to use, it would take on all the states of the patch I was previously on. It did that no matter what, until I copied the patch from the Legacy data folder and pasted it into the new 3 folder.

2. The Orchestral Voicings work fairly well on the strings and horns. The woods seem a little wonky. I use a few different methods for playing midi. Midi guitar, Keylab 88 MKII and an Ipad with a few different midi apps. The the voicing engine seems engine seems to drop/not trigger notes if you are holding a chord. Especially on one of my Ipad apps that has customizable key layouts, and I have one that does chords and single keys for melody at the same time. And my Keylab will start doing the same when holding down a triad and playing something moderately fast with the other hand. Maybe there should be a timer for chords like on some of the divisi solutions. Maybe it is something I am doing wrong, I'm still experimenting.

3. The Woods Orchestral Voicings also, have a very brief crackle when playing chords or even sort of fast. Like the samples had artifacts or something. Usually I can load up 5-6 multi instances of Complete 2, no problem. I had to get the buffer up to 512 for it to stop, when all the other Orchestral Voicings had no such behavior. They worked perfect at 128.

4. Scratch 2, this just acts weird. On String Voicing 04, holding down B1, and A4 through F5 decide its time to do whatever the hell they want. Sometimes straight through and no notes, sometime a few, sometimes up none, but there when climbing down. This could be intentional. It does sound great, but in practice it just plays odd. This could all be in someway an issue, that I am just having, or am causing by doing something wrong. So I will keep pluggin away. Im not a classically trained musician, so these tools Sonuscore creates are an Odin-send.

5. All of the multis use The Orchestra 2 instruments.....umm what? I hope this is a goof. No multis using the new engine? It says there are full playable multis, ensemble multi patches. Unless they are now classifying the basic engine as in itself a multi. Really takes the wind out of your sail when you load one up, and all you get are the Orchestra Complete 2 instruments. Yeah they sound great, just like they did before I upgraded to 3.

6. The single instruments Legatos act quite different from the core articulation patches compared to the single articulations. Probably both useful in their own way. Just strange that they would be so different in how they play.


That is all for now. I actually dont want to complain, I just want to really enjoy this as much as 2. This sounds so good, I'm just having some playability issues.....oh, and the multis grrrr





Yesterday at 8:03 AM

Add bookmark
#56
Ok, I hope this is just my install, where something has gone very wrong. The woods are a disaster.

They often sound out of tune, and not in an "whoops, that little micro tuning infraction is nice...human" way.

On patches containing many woods, they sounded terribly synth-like. So less Rivendell, more Vangelis.

Glitches/artifacts on sample start often. Even when played single notes. Seems to do more often the further apart the notes are.

All the sustains have the added feature of a second awful musician sitting behind the one playing the sampled note, trying to lend a hand. All but Flute 1, Clarinet 1 and Contrabassoon.

Many more.

But I think Ive found the problem. The main instrument is adding extra voices. They might have bit off more than they can chew with the new engine. Or it's just a poor install on my end, not sure how that could be, but. I can take say Flute 2 in the main instrument, this only seems to be on sustains, and hit a note and I will get 6 voices on initial hit, then up to 12 or more on release. On the single instruments, the Flute 2 will get 3 on initial hit, and 6 on release. Every time.

And unfortunately, I tried this with brass and strings and they do the same thing, but do not seem to suffer like the woods. I can load up and solo any of the strings and brass on the main instrument, and the voice increase is there. Though the strings and brass do not have any noticeable deleterious effects. I'm guessing, just guessing, that the engine has many layers that are active at once, so the orchestral voicing engine can do its thing, and pick which ones it wants to use at the given time. Yet some of the layers peek through. Of course I have no idea if that how it functions. Just primitive deduction.

Fix this Sonuscore. Unless it's a feature. In that case make the extra layers like pads or something. But dont use the samples from Elysion, I already have all those libraries.


----------



## mixolydian (Dec 12, 2022)

Akat1 said:


> Flute 2 in the main instrument, this only seems to be on sustains, and hit a note and I will get 6 voices on initial hit, then up to 12 or more on release. On the single instruments, the Flute 2 will get 3 on initial hit, and 6 on release. Every time.


Isn't that for crossfades and release tails? But that would mean there had to be almost the same amount of voices in other articulations too.


----------



## SONUSCORE (Dec 12, 2022)

Dear Sonuscore Community, 

thank you for the incredible support and overwhelming comments on The ORCHESTRA COMPLETE 3. We are very happy that we receive so much approval with the new release. We are also very happy about the manifold discussions on the topic, which we follow with great interest. 
Despite intensive testing on our part, it can happen that an error occurs in certain situations. We would like to expressly apologize for this, as it should not happen. 
In this case, there is indeed a bug in the Voicings function of the woodwinds. We have identified the bug and are already working on a fix. We will release an update patch as soon as possible. 

Thank you very much for your helpful feedback and have a nice day. 
Your Sonuscore Team


----------



## galaxy (Dec 12, 2022)

Dear Sonuscore Team,

This library is really good now with all those new functions.
The sequencer designer is what i was looking for. Really really good.
The voicing adds realism in chords. Sort of orchestrated chords...
Woodwinds are excellent, and i Love the new small percussion section.
And the new wood rhythms and animated patches are Excellent. really.
This library is for me the best version . All in one, and the heart of it is this insane ARP/SEQ designer.
Thanks a lot for this update.
Now ready for Voices of xxxx and Percussions of yyyyy.
Hoping we won' t have to wait 1 year.
And if you could integrate legatos in the voicing section...Would be awesome.
And some new TOC3 multis with seq designer and small percs as a christmas gift......
Thanks.


----------



## KarlHeinz (Dec 12, 2022)

SONUSCORE said:


> Dear Sonuscore Community,
> 
> thank you for the incredible support and overwhelming comments on The ORCHESTRA COMPLETE 3. We are very happy that we receive so much approval with the new release. We are also very happy about the manifold discussions on the topic, which we follow with great interest.
> Despite intensive testing on our part, it can happen that an error occurs in certain situations. We would like to expressly apologize for this, as it should not happen.
> ...


Wonder how the update patch will be transmitted/how the info will go out ?

As for the install of the TOC3 upgrade it was kind of a long way from buying from sonuscore to bestservice to NI access.......


----------



## michelleof7 (Dec 12, 2022)

CG Smith said:


> Aside from these two points, the other major items are the addition of the Sequencer and Chord Voicing selection.
> Which, if I understand correctly, basically brings the Ensemble Engine up to parity with Sonuscore's work on the Hollywood Orchestrator.


Well, except Orchestrator has 16 instrument slots (TO3 has 5), each with its own independent ARP/Seq/Envelope. It would be nice to see these ideas eventually make their way into TO (along with maybe some of the cool Elysion innovations such as A/B morphing and Effects Motion).


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 12, 2022)

I received a reply from support about the performance legato but no fix. It seems related to some hidden files, which support can replicate my issues if they are removed but I appear to have the hidden files, so it’s all a bit perplexing.


----------



## mixolydian (Dec 13, 2022)

michelleof7 said:


> Well, except Orchestrator has 16 instrument slots (TO3 has 5), each with its own independent ARP/Seq/Envelope. It would be nice to see these ideas eventually make their way into TO (along with maybe some of the cool Elysion innovations such as A/B morphing and Effects Motion).


I'm new to The Orchestra and made no use of the Animated or Rhythms so far. As far as I've seen you can load more than one instance of the main patch in one Kontakt. That adds more instruments to one single key stroke or chord. For a quick test I loaded 3 main patches each with different preset. The workload for the system seems high from what the performance meter tells.
It's not as flexible as Orchestrator I guess but a tiny workaround if in need for a few more instruments.

By the way, anyone knows a place where people discuss the functionality of The Orchestra and exchange user presets and such?


----------



## davidson (Dec 13, 2022)

@jbuhler Did you have any luck opening TOC1 projects with TOC3?


----------



## mixolydian (Dec 13, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> Wonder how the update patch will be transmitted/how the info will go out ?


That's indeed quite a topic. With such a community like VI-Control we will get the news on an upgrade as soon as it's available I'd guess. Sonuscore probably spread the news on an update via their newsletter as well.


----------



## jesussaddle (Dec 15, 2022)

I'm fairly excited that TO3 came out. Since I own Orchestrator in East West, and The Orchestra 2, But after many purchases during the holidays so far, I'm wondering if I should update until all the bugs are worked out. The update price ($99) is in the upper end of what I'll usually go with relative the initial price I paid for TO2, at least until its smooth sailing for reviewers. But yes, improved legatos would be huge, and improvements to the sequencing in general are very helpful. I don't get to play with orchestral scoring more than once a month, since I'm also into synths and non-virtual guitar and such. (But my intent originally was to use the library for adding music to my documentaries, using the generated MIDI, as the initial sample size of TO3 made me realize not to expect extremely high fidelity.)

I did here some bassoon and flute demos. The flute sounds nicely breathy, but a little uncontrolled in places with the demo settings used by Best Service (this cold be the mod wheel being at the top). The Bassoon sounded a little harsh in one or 2 spots. One thing I did note, on a separate (non-Best Service) youtube soundtest, is that the poster of the video acknowledged having octave settings and chord voicings which exceeded the playable range. While this would normally not result in any pause or break in function for a typical sample library, apparently in the case of TO3 there is an issue where a break in continuity of the performance was evident.

Is this resolved? (because at least for me I don't have an internal abacus telling me where my voice range is at all times while I improvise.)


----------



## mixolydian (Dec 15, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> One thing I did note, on a separate (non-Best Service) youtube soundtest, is that the poster of the video acknowledged having octave settings and chord voicings which exceeded the playable range.


What video are you referring to, is it about Animated Orchestra?


----------



## Simon Schrenk (Dec 16, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> Is this resolved? (because at least for me I don't have an internal abacus telling me where my voice range is at all times while I improvise.)


We optimized the presets so there is always the same playable range for each preset.




We highlighted that range in green. Chords inside that range will always sound the fullest and since the octave shifting for basses etc is already done in the presets you'll most of the time only need your right hand for the chords and the left hand can move the mod wheel instead...

In blue you see the sonic range of all instruments in the preset, but due to the octave shifting (so the everything plays in the desired octave inside the green keys) you might reach the upper or lower range limit of a certain instrument in that specific preset.
Most of the time you will notice this with the lowest instruments. In this preset for example the Db Pizzicato is set to -1 Octave. That means if you play the lowest green key what you will hear is the Pizzicato note from one octave lower. If you now play lower than the green highlighted keys the Double Basses would have to play that note one octave lower, but that is already out of their playable range.

So if you now play a chord like a pianist would do with other full string patches for example. He would probably play an octave C in the left hand and then in the right hand the triad c-e-g.
Our engine works with note assignments: Top, Top2, Top3, Middle, Middle 2, Lowest 2 and Lowest.
That why not all instruments play the same notes, but you can orchestrate them.
With that octave played in the left hand the Double Basses (set to Lowest) won't play, because it's out of their reach. If you leave out the left hand, the basses still will play one octave below of what you are pressing as the lowest note, as if there were your left hand pressing that note. The octave shift does that for you. 
Same of course with the +1 octave shift. If lowest 2 would be selected, but with +1 Octave active. You would hear the lowest two notes played above the triad you are actually playing. Take the c-e-g triad: You would hear c-e playing one octave above your triad. This is how we or of course you in your user presets can spread out a whole arrangement from a single triad (and of course all other chord forms like 7th, 9th ,diminished, suspended etc).

You have to get your head around a bit, but when you do it's quite powerful. When you look at scores you'll notice that often times you can reduce the score vertically down to a single triad where each instrument plays one note in their octave - that's what we were after to re-create with The Orchestra!

Sorry for the long post. I hope it's helpful...


----------



## peterharket (Dec 16, 2022)

Simon Schrenk said:


> We optimized the presets so there is always the same playable range for each preset.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great stuff! Any plans to add legato patches to the engine in the future? So say you lay down a chord, and if you hold the sustain pedal, any new chord will “overtake” the old chord but with a legato transition


----------



## mixolydian (Dec 16, 2022)

Found a video with Animated Orchestra presets, it seems they pressed (upper) blue keys the whole time.


----------



## Simon Schrenk (Dec 16, 2022)

Just experiment with the presets it definitely can also sound great in ranges out side of the green highlighted keys. I just wanted to point out that some instruments might not be able to play there, but it still can sound cool


----------



## ptram (Dec 16, 2022)

@Best Service Wolfgang , will the upgrade price from TOC2 to TOC3 remain the same after the intro promo ends, or will it go up as well?

Paolo


----------



## MeloKeyz (Dec 16, 2022)

I second every comment in here about the upgrade should be $49


----------



## Sophus (Dec 16, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> I second every comment in here about the upgrade should be $49


Yes, the people have spoken.😁


----------



## YaniDee (Dec 18, 2022)

Is there no video of the new engine features? It's one of the big selling points..


----------



## ptram (Dec 18, 2022)

I understand the price is justified by it being for the engine + the presets + the sounds. I suspect some, like me, don't care much for the sounds, that will be immediately replaced, so the price might looks somewhat on the higher side.

Paolo


----------



## jesussaddle (Dec 18, 2022)

mixolydian said:


> What video are you referring to, is it about Animated Orchestra?





Simon Schrenk said:


> We optimized the presets so there is always the same playable range for each preset.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see, so staying within the green range, REGARDLESS of having set - 2 in there, should not produce dropouts, correct?

I must admit that the vocabulary of Top, Top2, Lowest 2, +1 Octave, etc., is one that I need to refresh again. What is not immediately clear until I think about it, is that this describes 2 different functions, one being the position where the notes come from based on a four note voicing, and the 2nd being WHERE you want the note/s transcribed to. If that's right.

Here is the video where someone did not understand to stay within the green range, since it was asked above:


----------



## jesussaddle (Dec 18, 2022)

mixolydian said:


> What video are you referring to, is it about Animated Orchestra?


See above. Its solved by keeping within the green range, but I think the poster did not understand this and got carried away with what sounded good to him/her. (I suppose in a separate technology there may be a way to let the engine "try to find an octave version of any note you play" - but for this level of complexity, even as an added available non-default setting, it might ruin things.)


----------



## Satorious (Dec 18, 2022)

They needed to ride the modwheel also - everything sounds a little repetitive/flat/thin - the Animated presets in Orchestra 1/2 can be more dynamic than this showcase would have you believe.


----------



## jesussaddle (Dec 18, 2022)

Sophus said:


> Yes, the people have spoken.😁


Sounding familiar.


----------



## jesussaddle (Dec 18, 2022)

YaniDee said:


> Is there no video of the new engine features? It's one of the big selling points..



I realize you mean that Engine features (is this specifically some kind of legato engine?) are not the only new features. I'll need to read more to find this. My eyes and bad so I usually rely on release vids.

(I use East West Orchestrator and the sequencing is helpful in it - I'm glad its added). More presets, more options for choosing what plays/doesn't play, more presets, new preset browser (not partly new but revampled and not even recycled), better midi assignment, switchable, wider browser, MIDI Export... (The only legato the earlier versions had was Db - not sure what that means really...maybe a keyswitch). 

I'm still unable to find the library sample size, which does matter to myself.


----------



## EgM (Dec 18, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> I realize you mean that Engine features (is this specifically some kind of legato engine?) are not the only new features. I'll need to read more to find this. My eyes and bad so I usually rely on release vids.
> 
> (I use East West Orchestrator and the sequencing is helpful in it - I'm glad its added). More presets, more options for choosing what plays/doesn't play, more presets, new preset browser (not partly new but revampled and not even recycled), better midi assignment, switchable, wider browser, MIDI Export... (The only legato the earlier versions had was Db - not sure what that means really...maybe a keyswitch).
> 
> I'm still unable to find the library sample size, which does matter to myself.


22.8Gb


----------



## jesussaddle (Dec 18, 2022)

EgM said:


> 22.8Gb


Okay, that's a BIG step up in size from what I have so I may find myself liking the vividness of the samples a bit more. Not that size necessarily means more quality & round robins - it could mostly be more articulations.

I was debating a next purchase and that helped put me over the threshold of "want" - but I'll hafta watch more demos. Not that Simeon has to come to the rescue for every single emergency.


----------



## YaniDee (Dec 18, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> I realize you mean that Engine features (is this specifically some kind of legato engine?) are not the only new features.


I mean the new features that have been added to the engine, such as the sequencer....


----------



## muddyblue (Dec 22, 2022)

Attention just seen, update 3.01 is out...
(And yes you need to download all parts again....)


----------



## JSteel (Dec 22, 2022)

The size of the update at Bestservice is just 363MB.


----------



## JSteel (Dec 22, 2022)

muddyblue said:


> ..also by best service


You have to go to "Support" and then "Downloads", there is the update.


----------



## muddyblue (Dec 22, 2022)

JSteel said:


> You have to go to "Support" and then "Downloads", there is the update.


oh yes, didn't see that thanks!


----------



## rrichard63 (Dec 22, 2022)

JSteel said:


> You have to go to "Support" and then "Downloads", there is the update.


That only works if you have already downloaded all 12 parts of the original version. They updated the links after I finished downloading part 11 and before I started part 12. Now I have to download parts 1 through 11 all over again (22 GB) in order to have either version.

UPDATE: On request, Best Service customer support kindly sent me links so I could finish downloading the original version of the files.


----------



## JSteel (Dec 22, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> That only works if you have already downloaded all 12 parts of the original version. They updated the links after I finished downloading part 11 and before I started part 12. Now I have to download parts 1 through 11 all over again (22 GB) in order to have either version.


Of course, the update only works for people that already have version 3.


----------



## EgM (Dec 22, 2022)

JSteel said:


> You have to go to "Support" and then "Downloads", there is the update.


Hmm, I have The Orchestra Complete 3 installed and I get this... Anyone else?






Update:
Trying to run the update setup as Administrator, now I get this:






Now I notice that the previous setup execution deleted all the instruments from the \Instruments folder... *sigh* I wish there was more quality control and testing for these... Setups should NOT delete files before checking validation! I guess I will have to download the whole package again.


----------



## davidson (Dec 22, 2022)

Just quickly tried the woods legato patches and I'm getting terrible clicks and popping. The CPU meter in logic is going crazy. Anyone else had that issue? Tried standalone and in DAW with K6 + 7, same result. Went back and re-extracted using the recommended Keka app, same result. @SONUSCORE


----------



## Braveheart (Dec 22, 2022)

EgM said:


> Hmm, I have The Orchestra Complete 3 installed and I get this... Anyone else?


No, I don’t get this. But if I ever buy The Orchestra Complete 3, I’ll let you know if I get this too.


----------



## jesussaddle (Dec 22, 2022)

EgM said:


> Hmm, I have The Orchestra Complete 3 installed and I get this... Anyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hate that also. I've had more than one sample library company fail to check the download and go and delete the files.


----------



## jesussaddle (Dec 22, 2022)

I'm still looking for that Youtube review.... from Somebody...


----------



## JSteel (Dec 23, 2022)

EgM said:


> Hmm, I have The Orchestra Complete 3 installed and I get this... Anyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i'm on mac, i had to grant the access to the installation folder and it completed without any errors.


----------



## muddyblue (Dec 23, 2022)

EgM said:


> Hmm, I have The Orchestra Complete 3 installed and I get this... Anyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think it's best to completely re-draw the lib. (Rename the old one and then after all 3.01 works fine, delete it 3.0). A clean install is almost better, it's such a thing with these updaters....


----------



## dpasdernick (Dec 24, 2022)

I will buy this but am bummed that the version 1 and version 2 upgrades are the same price. Where’s the loyalty? Where’s the love? Where’s the soft wet kisses that last for 3 days?


----------



## Braveheart (Dec 24, 2022)

dpasdernick said:


> I will buy this but am bummed that the version 1 and version 2 upgrades are the same price. Where’s the loyalty? Where’s the love? Where’s the soft wet kisses that last for 3 days?


Other bundles are like that as well (Komplete, etc.).


----------



## DJames (Dec 25, 2022)

Could anyone tell me if this library is worth having if I already own the newest East West Opus Hollywood Orchestra? The file size of Orchestra Complete seems tiny by comparison. But what about the sound quality and available articulations? Just curious if this product is significantly different enough. Thanks.


----------



## peterharket (Dec 25, 2022)

Does anyone know if the legato patches can be used in the engine (multis)? Or is that sustain only?


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 25, 2022)

peterharket said:


> Does anyone know if the legato patches can be used in the engine (multis)? Or is that sustain only?


Sustain only, I’m pretty sure. I’d be happy to hear otherwise. 



DJames said:


> Could anyone tell me if this library is worth having if I already own the newest East West Opus Hollywood Orchestra? The file size of Orchestra Complete seems tiny by comparison. But what about the sound quality and available articulations? Just curious if this product is significantly different enough. Thanks.


TOC3 is not nearly as resource heavy, either in RAM needed or amount of space required on SSD, so that’s one advantage. 

I don’t have HOOPUS, but I imagine the sound quality will be generally higher with it. From what I’ve heard, the orchestrator engine is much more capable in HOOPUS.


----------



## peterharket (Dec 25, 2022)

I pulled the trigger on HOOPUS now, as they just implemented compatibility with the sustain pedal for the orchestrator. All I need now is a new SSD


----------



## DJames (Dec 25, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Sustain only, I’m pretty sure. I’d be happy to hear otherwise.
> 
> 
> TOC3 is not nearly as resource heavy, either in RAM needed or amount of space required on SSD, so that’s one advantage.
> ...


Thank you for that. I have a pretty powerful PC and tend to upgrade every other intel gen anways, so I'm not concerned about resources. More interested to know if the overall feel of the orchestra is different. I'm at the point of having too many Orchestras in general (all the Metropolis Arks, Majesta 2.0, BBC Pro, and Holywood Opus).


----------



## Braveheart (Dec 25, 2022)

DJames said:


> Could anyone tell me if this library is worth having if I already own the newest East West Opus Hollywood Orchestra? The file size of Orchestra Complete seems tiny by comparison. But what about the sound quality and available articulations? Just curious if this product is significantly different enough. Thanks.


You should ask this in Sample Talk, instead of the commercial thread.


----------



## ScoreFace (Dec 27, 2022)

DJames said:


> Could anyone tell me if this library is worth having if I already own the newest East West Opus Hollywood Orchestra? The file size of Orchestra Complete seems tiny by comparison. But what about the sound quality and available articulations? Just curious if this product is significantly different enough. Thanks.


I own both Opus HO and TOC3 and I think the general sound in Opus is slightly better, plus in HO, you get Legato articulations with the Orchestrator which is a great thing. 

I love to use TOC3 on my laptop however, because HO is simply too big for it! TOC3 sounds nice and there are some great bonus patches in it like orchestral fx, choir, organ and a few more. But I would say, if you own HO and are working on a strong system, all is fine for you!


----------



## DJames (Dec 27, 2022)

ScoreFace said:


> I own both Opus HO and TOC3 and I think the general sound in Opus is slightly better, plus in HO, you get Legato articulations with the Orchestrator which is a great thing.
> 
> I love to use TOC3 on my laptop however, because HO is simply too big for it! TOC3 sounds nice and there are some great bonus patches in it like orchestral fx, choir, organ and a few more. But I would say, if you own HO and are working on a strong system, all is fine for you!


@ScoreFace, thank you. That's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. I appreciate the insight!


----------



## Orpheus Glory (Dec 31, 2022)

I really love TOC2, so hoping the quirks will get sorted soon. Will upgrade at some point!


----------



## Phil Harmony (Jan 6, 2023)

Orpheus Glory said:


> I really love TOC2, so hoping the quirks will get sorted soon. Will upgrade at some point!


I never got any quirks or issues with TOC3, it is just great sounding on my system and makes a lot of fun! I have found a nice video on youtube which shows how it sounds and how the customizer works:



TOC3 starts from 1:09 - I have made my first steps with the customizer myself now and it is really fun to play with! It is not random arpeggiators but you really can define specific patterns now.

The video shows Pacific Strings as well, which seems to be fantastic - maybe another product I have to buy!


----------



## gcorcella (Jan 6, 2023)

I jump into the discussion to share our review of The Orchestra Complete 3. Maybe someone could find it useful


----------



## peterharket (Jan 6, 2023)

Finally! Thanks!


----------



## ThomCSounds (Jan 6, 2023)

Greyscale said:


> Does anyone else experience CPU Spikes with this? I downloaded it and tried it and especially the Woodwinds had heavy clicks and pops in it and then I realised it causes CPU spikes within the DAW (Studio One, Cubase, Bitwig) but also if I use it in Kontakt 7 standalone? My CPU is at about 35%. The legacy patches are all good, also the Strings are alright.
> Do I miss something??
> I should add, its only the Legato Patches.


Yep! Same thing here with the legato patches, plenty of clicks and pops even when changing the buffer size :(


----------



## jesussaddle (Jan 6, 2023)

ThomCSounds said:


> Yep! Same thing here with the legato patches, plenty of clicks and pops even when changing the buffer size :(


mind if I ask what the highest buffer size you tried was?


----------



## jesussaddle (Jan 6, 2023)

Phil Harmony said:


> I never got any quirks or issues with TOC3, it is just great sounding on my system and makes a lot of fun! I have found a nice video on youtube which shows how it sounds and how the customizer works:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Simeon, glad you uploaded it. Your videos are extremely helpful.


----------



## jesussaddle (Saturday at 12:14 AM)

ThomCSounds said:


> Yep! Same thing here with the legato patches, plenty of clicks and pops even when changing the buffer size :(


I do hear a few pops and clicks in Simeon's video where he covers the legato patches. Maybe its just his video recording interfering with CPU performance.


----------



## Greyscale (Saturday at 2:12 AM)

ThomCSounds said:


> Yep! Same thing here with the legato patches, plenty of clicks and pops even when changing the buffer size :(


I changed my buffer to 512 and now it works fine. Although I find it interesting that they are so "intense" in performance, all other libraries work with a buffer size of 128 on my system.


----------



## davidson (Saturday at 3:10 AM)

Yep, the legato patches with the woods are *completely* un-useable on my m1 max studio. Clicks and pops galore.


----------



## peterharket (Saturday at 3:13 AM)

Such a missed opportunity to not include legato transitions in the engine now that every instrument has legato. @Best Service Wolfgang @Best Service Tomasz is this something on your roadmap?


----------



## gcorcella (Sunday at 4:18 AM)

So far I haven't found many problems with the legato patches. I found some clicks when playing the orchestrator but nothing too persistent. 

I am on Windows 11, Cubase 12.0.52, Kontakt 7, i9-12900 KF 128 GB RAM, Buffer size 512


----------



## davidson (Sunday at 4:56 AM)

gcorcella said:


> So far I haven't found many problems with the legato patches. I found some clicks when playing the orchestrator but nothing too persistent.
> 
> I am on Windows 11, Cubase 12.0.52, Kontakt 7, i9-12900 KF 128 GB RAM, Buffer size 512


You're probably just about avoiding clicks and pops due to your 512 buffer.


----------



## jesussaddle (Sunday at 11:07 AM)

Greyscale said:


> I changed my buffer to 512 and now it works fine. Although I find it interesting that they are so "intense" in performance, all other libraries work with a buffer size of 128 on my system.


I imagine its the nature of the beast for many a dev. Probably they can get around to optimizing it as circumstances arise to make the expertise needed to optimize their code affordable.


----------



## YaniDee (Sunday at 4:44 PM)

I have v1,2,3, and with each version I actually get a bit less excited..I think they should focus more on developing the engine..Of course you need decent sounds, but I don't think people are buying it to replace HOOpus, VSL, Spitfire, etc..And they should brighten up that drab interface..


----------



## CrystalColleen (Sunday at 5:34 PM)

YaniDee said:


> I have v1,2,3, and with each version I actually get a bit less excited..I think they should focus more on developing the engine..Of course you need decent sounds, but I don't think people are buying it to replace HOOpus, VSL, Spitfire, etc..And they should brighten up that drab interface..


I agree that I'd like them to put more effort into the engine and the arpeggiator. I have a lot of other libraries I'd use to replace the sounds in this if I working on my computer and not my laptop. 
But being with each update they keep focusing on adding a new section we'll probably have to wait until TO4: Percussion of the Damned or whatever before they look at the engine.

That being said, I'm dealing with clicks and pops as well with the legato woodwinds. It's clearly a programming issue because there's no way my computer is choking on a single, legato woodwind. They need to fix something in the programming. 

My computer is Windows 10, i9-12900ks special edition / unlocked running at 5.2 mhz, Asus ROG 690 Maximus extreme motherboard with 128gb of Corsair Dominator memory. All HDs are SSDs. I have the buffer set at 128 and I'm getting clicks. 

To be honest I didn't even bother checking it at anything higher because this computer can chew up libraries and spit them out even at a buffer of 64 which is where I normally keep it. I can run multiple instances of all the standard libraries - MSS/MSB, CSS/CSSS/CSB, NSS, TSS, Infinite Brass/Woods and have zero issues at 64. There's no reason a single legato woodwind should keep pinning my performance meter in Studio One and causing clicks. It's clearly some kind of programming / optimization issue in their VI.


----------



## jesussaddle (Sunday at 6:42 PM)

CrystalColleen said:


> I agree that I'd like them to put more effort into the engine and the arpeggiator. I have a lot of other libraries I'd use to replace the sounds in this if I working on my computer and not my laptop.
> But being with each update they keep focusing on adding a new section we'll probably have to wait until TO4: Percussion of the Damned or whatever before they look at the engine.
> 
> That being said, I'm dealing with clicks and pops as well with the legato woodwinds. It's clearly a programming issue because there's no way my computer is choking on a single, legato woodwind. They need to fix something in the programming.
> ...


Infinite libs are not light on CPU - if you have fx running and so on (I believe I run those at 128 & my pc is upper mid range), so it sounds like your computer is fairly up-to-date and capable. If you're saying that you experience tis without anything else putting load on the CPU, then it sounds like a hung process to be honest.


----------



## CrystalColleen (Sunday at 8:19 PM)

jesussaddle said:


> Infinite libs are not light on CPU - if you have fx running and so on (I believe I run those at 128 & my pc is upper mid range), so it sounds like your computer is fairly up-to-date and capable. If you're saying that you experience tis without anything else putting load on the CPU, then it sounds like a hung process to be honest.


Yeah, I can run multiple libs at 64 with no issues, but if I put a SINGLE instance of a legato woodwind from TO3 (for example, legato solo flute) - with absolutely nothing else loaded - and start playing, I get clicks and pops and the performance meter in Studio One starts hitting the top and turning red. This is with the buffer at 128. Like I said, I didn't test higher because this isn't normal behavior for any VI - especially when it's the only VI loaded in the project so I know the issue isn't with my computer or buffer setting.

I mean, I have absolutely nothing loaded - I open a brand new project and load the legato flute. There's nothing else in the project. And I get that kind of behavior from a legato woodwind in TO3.

I shouldn't have to set my buffer at 512 to use a single woodwind from TO3 when I can run an entire woodwind section from CSW at 128 without a single hiccup.


----------



## jesussaddle (Monday at 3:10 PM)

CrystalColleen said:


> Yeah, I can run multiple libs at 64 with no issues, but if I put a SINGLE instance of a legato woodwind from TO3 (for example, legato solo flute) - with absolutely nothing else loaded - and start playing, I get clicks and pops and the performance meter in Studio One starts hitting the top and turning red. This is with the buffer at 128. Like I said, I didn't test higher because this isn't normal behavior for any VI - especially when it's the only VI loaded in the project so I know the issue isn't with my computer or buffer setting.
> 
> I mean, I have absolutely nothing loaded - I open a brand new project and load the legato flute. There's nothing else in the project. And I get that kind of behavior from a legato woodwind in TO3.
> 
> I shouldn't have to set my buffer at 512 to use a single woodwind from TO3 when I can run an entire woodwind section from CSW at 128 without a single hiccup.


yea, seeing as how you have such a basic setup this is something that Sonuscore must be able to replicate. I likely will buy this library, so I hope we hear from them soon on if this is something they might be able to correct easily.


----------

