# How to make Oboe 1 and Oboe 2 with one oboe patch



## Morodiene (Nov 28, 2016)

Couldn't think of a good title for this topic, but it applies to doing an orchestral mock-up. If you have one oboe patch but the score calls for 2 oboes, do you make 2 tracks with the same patch and EQ one of them slightly different? 

Or does it not matter and you just create one track and play 2 notes when they are divisi, and one note when unison?

I'm using Hollywood Orchestra Gold.


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## ricoderks (Nov 28, 2016)

when you'll try a other eq setting it wont help much if you play unison: You are triggering the same sample pool. That means you could get some phasing issues... What you could try is a separate oboe vst... OR pitch the current oboe -1 in Play engine and play everything one note higher in your midi sequencer... (I would recommend a separate oboe though)  good luck!

Rico


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## Morodiene (Nov 28, 2016)

Thanks! I'm concerned with trying to get other libraries to blend well. So if I took the Solo Oboe from Symphonic Orchestra and then the oboe from HO, that would work to avoid phasing, but be close enough to make it sound like they're from the same orchestra?


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## CT (Nov 28, 2016)

Yeah, separate instruments would be best, but not many developers give you enough to build your own sections (especially if you sometimes have up to quadruple woodwinds), and combining different libraries then presents its own problems. Sometimes the pitch-bend + transpose method is the best option, especially if the lines aren't too exposed.


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## tonaliszt (Nov 28, 2016)

Doubled woodwinds mostly sound like worse, but louder versions of the solo instrument. I wouldn't worry about the tone quality differences between solo and a2 at all in a mockup. I would just increase the volume of a solo oboe for an "a2" passage. 
[likely many people will disagree with this advice, so, as always, go with your ears.]


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Nov 28, 2016)

Using 2 separate oboes for a2 will often sound different than oboes actually recorded a2. Most instruments when playing together become blurry and sometimes even quieter. I believe it has to do with not having the clear harmonic structure since the instruments will always be slightly out of tune making the harmonics not as clear and piercing. 

I always use a2 patches or just a single patch for solo parts. I don't worry about having 2 different "players." 2 identical legato patches playing different lines sounds fine to me and most of the time it won't be very exposed. If I were writing a double oboe concerto then I'd want to use 2 different oboes so that each one has it's own character and a listener can follow which one is doing what.


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## Morodiene (Nov 28, 2016)

Thanks everyone! I'll try using the same patch and see if it makes a difference - if so, then I can try the pitch bend/transpose thing, and if that isn't enough, _then_ I'll try using a different library. :D


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## Lassi Tani (Nov 28, 2016)

Because of that I like using Berlin Woodwinds, since they have recorded the instruments separate with different players. It's easy to create the divisi parts and sounds great. Their way of recording their libraries this way makes the price a bit higher.


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## The Darris (Nov 28, 2016)

You can use the transpose trick within Kontakt. Go to instrument options within the settings of the specific patch and transpose up or down 2 or 3 semi tones. After you do that, you have to counter the pitch difference with the tuning knob of the instrument. 

What this does is shift the sample range so that when you play unison parts, you are triggering different samples. A lot of developers have built this ability into their interfaces but it's a solid work around for libraries that do not offer more than one instrument per section . 

Best,

C


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## Ashermusic (Nov 29, 2016)

As long as they are not playing the exact same MIDI, the phasing has never bothered me using two instances of the same instrument. But generally for those parts I reach for a library that has patches with more than one woodwind player, not worrying much about how many.


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## Morodiene (Nov 29, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> As long as they are not playing the exact same MIDI, the phasing has never bothered me using two instances of the same instrument. But generally for those parts I reach for a library that has patches with more than one woodwind player, not worrying much about how many.


Since HWW has one oboe player and it's not divisi all the way through, would I have the same patch for the different parts, but then they're unison, just play one and increase the volume a bit?


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## Ashermusic (Nov 29, 2016)

I probably would choose similar but different patches, but if I used the same patch I wouldn't lose sleep over it. 

But then I don't worry about a fair amount of things others here will say that they consider important, so I am something of an outlier.


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## Morodiene (Nov 29, 2016)

The Darris said:


> You can use the transpose trick within Kontakt. Go to instrument options within the settings of the specific patch and transpose up or down 2 or 3 semi tones. After you do that, you have to counter the pitch difference with the tuning knob of the instrument.
> 
> What this does is shift the sample range so that when you play unison parts, you are triggering different samples. A lot of developers have built this ability into their interfaces but it's a solid work around for libraries that do not offer more than one instrument per section .
> 
> ...


That makes a lot of sense. Thanks, Chris!

@sekkosiki I really like the sound of Berlin everything. Perhaps someday when I actually make money doing this I can justify blowing it all on those libraries :D


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## Morodiene (Nov 29, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> I probably would choose similar but different patches, but if I used the same patch I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
> 
> But then I don't worry about a fair amount of things others here will say that they consider important, so I am something of an outlier.


Fair enough. My ears aren't that great, still training them to hear differences in subtleties as I learn how to play all these vi's, so I'm all about finding the simplest way to get the sound I want, but I want to avoid the "rookie" mistakes.


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## Lassi Tani (Nov 29, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> That makes a lot of sense. Thanks, Chris!
> 
> @sekkosiki I really like the sound of Berlin everything. Perhaps someday when I actually make money doing this I can justify blowing it all on those libraries :D



Me too. Berlin everything some day :D


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## wpc982 (Dec 3, 2016)

As long as your instrument is not sampled in whole steps while you try to use a note a half-step away as your transpose and retune note, that method should work ok. I must say that I almost always simply use a solo oboe a little louder for when my scores call for oboes a2. The only thing NOT to do is as in your OP: allow the same instrument to play the same line in unison. Btw Gold (at least my old version) does have a 3-oboe patch, which should serve for oboe a2 reasonably well. You could use 2 tracks, or more, with the solo track dropping out for the a2 stuff.


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## Morodiene (Dec 3, 2016)

wpc982 said:


> *Btw Gold (at least my old version) does have a 3-oboe patch, which should serve for oboe a2 reasonably well. You could use 2 tracks, or more, with the solo track dropping out for the a2 stuff.*


I was not aware of this. I'm looking in the HWW manual and it only mentions "Oboe" and not anything about 3 oboes. Do you know the name of the patch?


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## wpc982 (Dec 3, 2016)

This is "EWQLSO Gold Library", from about 10+ years ago. It has a section called "3 Oboes" and in that 5 patches: F 3Ob Sus VIB.nki, etc. Not at all complete in terms of articulations, but with a sus, a sus vibrato, and a staccato, most of what I would want from oboes in unison is there.


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## Morodiene (Dec 4, 2016)

wpc982 said:


> This is "EWQLSO Gold Library", from about 10+ years ago. It has a section called "3 Oboes" and in that 5 patches: F 3Ob Sus VIB.nki, etc. Not at all complete in terms of articulations, but with a sus, a sus vibrato, and a staccato, most of what I would want from oboes in unison is there.


Ah ok. I have access to that through Composer Cloud, but then I'm mixing libraries. Haven't had a chance yet to try out some of the different techniques described here...hopefully I can get to that this coming week!


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## ZeroZero (Dec 9, 2016)

One of my discoveries in relation to this is the use of 'match eq' basically some eqs allow you to copy the eq from one sound to another and match them. Voxengo Curve EQ in Cubase can do this. This can be useful when homogenising samples from different libraries so that your patches sound like they come from the same instrument (when hocketing MIDI). It can alo=so be used creatively though to make the same sample sound different, for example copying the eq from an alto flute to a flute, so that one may make two flutes.


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## Morodiene (Dec 9, 2016)

ZeroZero said:


> One of my discoveries in relation to this is the use of 'match eq' basically some eqs allow you to copy the eq from one sound to another and match them. Voxengo Curve EQ in Cubase can do this. This can be useful when homogenising samples from different libraries so that your patches sound like they come from the same instrument (when hocketing MIDI). It can alo=so be used creatively though to make the same sample sound different, for example copying the eq from an alto flute to a flute, so that one may make two flutes.


Interesting...I wonder if there is something similar in Logic?


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## ZeroZero (Dec 9, 2016)

I believe this is possible in Logic Match EQ, Izotope RX4 and fabfilter pro Q2. 

I received this knowledge from an online course called "The MIDI orchestra enhancing realism" by Peter Shwartz at Ask Video. 
He introduced my mind to the term hocketing (taking one melodic line and giving it to different voices) as a modern technique of interchanging samples from different samples in the same aural melodic line, for example using the staccato patch from two libraries, in a single staccato line (I find MIDI staccato so lame even with round robins). Sometimes he calls this mosiacing. Combined with the above, this is powerful.


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## fixxer49 (Feb 5, 2017)

Morodiene said:


> Couldn't think of a good title for this topic, but it applies to doing an orchestral mock-up. If you have one oboe patch but the score calls for 2 oboes, do you make 2 tracks with the same patch and EQ one of them slightly different?
> 
> Or does it not matter and you just create one track and play 2 notes when they are divisi, and one note when unison?
> 
> I'm using Hollywood Orchestra Gold.


try Solo Oboe + Solo English Horn (for oboe 2)


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## Morodiene (Feb 6, 2017)

fixxer49 said:


> try Solo Oboe + Solo English Horn (for oboe 2)


Great solution!


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