# Exploring BBCSO Discover...



## Taron (Sep 26, 2021)

Holy hell, I feel now seriously insecure, hoping that I can share with you my early explorations with BBCSO Discover, mildly afraid that I'm miles upon miles behind where you folks are in this genre. So, while I have done a few occasional orchestral compositions with other libraries, I've never studied it, but picked up a few hints over the years, especially from a dear friend of mine, who is a professional musician/composer.

Thing is, I've never been around any other musicians, who care about orchestral composition. I believe, I'm looking for some decent pushes, something to tell me I wasn't crazy to enjoy exploring this and any feedback tends to give me more than just orientation. But something tells me, you know exactly what I'm talking about. It's just extra fun to dive into the right crowd and I have this feeling, this may be the place for it. However... ...no idea, if I can offer you as much inspiration as you do to me already. Incredible.

SO, extending my self-introduction from today, here's a little playlist of my Discover experiments. I've got it now for a bit less than month now and used every chance I had to do a little track with it or snippets of different orchestral energies or motives. Some have a few LABS instruments, oh, and the last 4 tracks are all LABS (I should mention), so it's all Spitfire Audio Freebies.



...dang it, I still don't know, if this isn't ridiculous of me here, but well, heck...


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## Double Helix (Sep 26, 2021)

I've listened to the first few tracks, and I have to say that I am impressed with what you are able to wring out of your libraries. No reason for any self-doubt, @Taron. I look forward to hearing more of your work.
Onward!


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## synergy543 (Sep 26, 2021)

Is this Taron the famous 3D graphic character artist? Who also has written numerous inspiring reason songs? Sure sounds like it to me. A pleasure to have you on board. Carry on! It will be a treat to hear where you go with orchestral instruments. Can't wait until you combine the music and graphics too!


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## Taron (Sep 26, 2021)

Ahaha, yeah, it's me, thanks, @synergy543 ! (uh, that's big) ...I've all but retired from 3d, but I'm still developing a 2D painter ( Verve ) and have started looking into making an online version. Released a "sandbox" of my research not to long ago. And, man, Reason I haven't touched in nearly 20 years now, I think, haha. Dang, them good old days. Subtractor obsession, hehe. As soon as I had discovered VSTs, I basically got assimilated into the DAW world.
Jeeez...I feel extra weird for not feeling too shocked right now, haha. But you are making me pretty happy, Synergy! (where's a hugging smiley here?!) guess I gotta go with High Five: 
OH, Hey, and the "dear friend of mine" I was mentioning up there is actually Gregor Theelen, whom I met first on reasonstation back in the day! 

@Double Helix , thank you very much! Very motivating! I haven't really heard anything yet from others, who would only use Discover. I'm sure there's some crazy stuff out there. The few things I did hear were like supplemental strings in the background or the likes, but nothing pure. That sure was another thing that got me worried, hehehe... but well. I enjoy trying to work with what I'm given. But I think, someone who knows really well how to orchestrate, compose for the various instrument groups, probably makes me quietly slip under my desk, hahaha. Still love it for sure! Thanks, again!


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## synergy543 (Sep 26, 2021)

Sometimes when you're not directly involved, you have an even greater sense of freedom to explore than those heavily invested. Not having the "baggage" to carry, or the weight of "what others might think" can give a fresh view and far greater latitude to do wild and wonderful things. Another graphic artist Carles had great success getting into music I think for some of these same reasons. Plus, as an experienced artist in another field, you can bring a different perspective and many of the artistic ideas are translatable. For those of us who've been working in the field, we often get hung up on technical issues and such which really matter very little. So it's wonderful to have you here. I'm sure many of us can learn some things from you as well. I know I have. Have fun and look forward to hearing more of your explorations.


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## proxima (Sep 26, 2021)

It's absolutely impressive what you did with this library. Keep going, and if those other libraries you've used in the past aren't top-shelf, I'd strongly consider getting great libraries to hold up to your clear skill/talent!


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## mybadmemory (Sep 26, 2021)

This is impressive on many levels. The music itself is great. That you did all of it within a month is admirable. And that you used nothing but free tools is inspiring. You have absolutely nothing to feel insecure about. 

So many around here (myself included) spend way to much time obsessing about and buying tools instead of actually using them to write music. You did the exact opposite here. Hats off!


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## Alchemedia (Sep 27, 2021)

Welcome to VI-C Taron! The fact that you managed to make BBCSO Discover sing doesn't surprise me at all considering some of your brilliant OSC contributions while generally working with far more limited resources.


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## el-bo (Sep 27, 2021)

Not that there is nothing to be gained by having some of the really top-tier libraries, but you've just shown beyond any doubt (for many of us, at least) that the enjoyment of music, at least for the listener, comes not from the tools the musician used but from the music and the composer themselves.

I'm quite sure you could make decent music with a bag of wet newspapers and a point-ed stick. Something to consider, perhaps, if you ever run short of ideas


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## Taron (Sep 27, 2021)

Alright, I'm home! (AH, there is a huggy smiley!)
What a fantastic welcome, I can't thank you enough!

@Alchemedia ...AH, a family member, hehe. I have been a little absent from the OSC this year. I remember your name from a while ago... around like the Thorn time, I think, right?! THANK YOU, yeah, OSC is my jam and has always been long before it already. 

@el-bo ...every now and then I have to think of someone playing a guitar and filling the world with music, let alone a piano, which has the power to fill hours with pure musical depth, complexity and joy. With my head on my pillow I can hit the edge of my mattress in slightly different places and the springs ring so beautifully, I can literally tap myself to sleep with some heavy grooves, hahaha, so.... yes, the most important thing, I find, is to channel your intuition with the least amount of handicap, possibly even get instruments/sounds that supply additional inspiration, but not to distract you or strap you on their back, but to become partners in the process of creation. That can be challenging with libraries. 

@mybadmemory ...man, thank you so much, honestly! You blew me away yesterday and are totally responsible for my insecurities here, hahaha!   But now you're giving me nothing but happiness and a proper boost of confidence, hehe. Well, I'm looking forward to getting all this nonsense out of the way and just be with you guys, having some real fun making music, learn from each other and enjoy where this all takes us. As for making "that much" in a month, well, that's another curious advantage of using one simple library mostly (the odd LABS sound included). Without countless articulations to choose from and no available nuance worth mentioning, you can let the music out so much more fluently. I think, knowing more about orchestration can make this even more fluent. The only reason it then would take a little longer, because you'd likely make proper, full length compositions rather than the little snippets I did up there. But, yeah, that's why I'm so curious what artists like yourself could accomplish with something as limited as Discover. But I also would feel your pain, as even I felt it, working with the equivalent of Lego pieces to sculpt your David, tssss... it would most probably also soon lead you into its world of possibilities and when you have accepted it, you gain this wonderful little extra bonus of having done more than you might've normally done. At least that's like that for me. Anyway: BIG THANK YOU! And you are incredible!

@proxima ...thank you, really! Thing with the top-shelf libraries is also, you need some decently powerful hardware, suited to handle more than 4 legato patches of 2Gb each. Even then it still changes the process of making music. It takes experience to make the right picks, you can't easily do wild experiments frequently. I was leaping into this back then probably too soon, which is why I never stuck around this way of composing for long. But now it feels like I can accumulate the right kind of experiences more quickly. If or when I can justify it, I will love to migrate at least to BBCSO Core and see how far I can get with it. I'm a little worried about the fixed mic setting there, but at least they have a really beautifully recording space. Uh, a tangent, haha.... anyway, thank you, you're all so very uplifting!


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## doctoremmet (Sep 27, 2021)

Taron said:


> Alright, I'm home!


It feels like you truly belong here ❤️ and yes: kudos on your BBCSO Discover explorations!


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## Bluemount Score (Sep 27, 2021)

I, too, am quite impressed what you managed to get out of these free libraries. I agree with what has been said before, you have nothing to feel insecure about. Well done, would be interested to hear what you will manage to get out of high tier libraries in the future


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## sinkd (Sep 27, 2021)

Great stuff! Welcome to VI-C!


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## mybadmemory (Sep 27, 2021)

Taron said:


> Well, I'm looking forward to getting all this nonsense out of the way and just be with you guys, having some real fun making music, learn from each other and enjoy where this all takes us.


That's what I love about this place. The wonderful mix of beginners, hobbyists and professionals, all the way up to the absolute top level. In combination with a very respectful and helpful attitude across it all. 



> As for making "that much" in a month, well, that's another curious advantage of using one simple library mostly (the odd LABS sound included). Without countless articulations to choose from and no available nuance worth mentioning, you can let the music out so much more fluently. I think, knowing more about orchestration can make this even more fluent. The only reason it then would take a little longer, because you'd likely make proper, full length compositions rather than the little snippets I did up there.


You're right. I certainly had a much higher velocity back when i got started using only one simple library. I think i cut my output in half when i started buying more libraries, and then in half again when i went from starter libraries to bigger ones. Paradox of choice is most definitely a thing. Both in terms of having many different libraries, but in terms of having so many instruments and articulations within them to choose from. On the other hand I also think that forced me learn things i otherwise wouldn't have, and therefore get better. But i still very much feel i only do "short snippets" and no proper compositions.


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## Pincel (Sep 27, 2021)

Taron said:


> Holy hell, I feel now seriously insecure, hoping that I can share with you my early explorations with BBCSO Discover, mildly afraid that I'm miles upon miles behind where you folks are in this genre. So, while I have done a few occasional orchestral compositions with other libraries, I've never studied it, but picked up a few hints over the years, especially from a dear friend of mine, who is a professional musician/composer.
> 
> Thing is, I've never been around any other musicians, who care about orchestral composition. I believe, I'm looking for some decent pushes, something to tell me I wasn't crazy to enjoy exploring this and any feedback tends to give me more than just orientation. But something tells me, you know exactly what I'm talking about. It's just extra fun to dive into the right crowd and I have this feeling, this may be the place for it. However... ...no idea, if I can offer you as much inspiration as you do to me already. Incredible.
> 
> ...



Great stuff man! Nothing to feel insecure about, making Discover sound like that, wow! Seriously great music, you've won a new fan.


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## confusedsheep (Sep 27, 2021)

and there i was wondering... taron... hmmm... there was a musician on reasonstation who did amazing things with the subtractor... wasn´t it you and harding who did that jungle/rainforest inspired tune with the subtractor alone (like all the soundfx and stuff)?

anyhow... your output was inspiring back then ...and having just listenend to your discovery tracks... it is still inspiring and fun to listen to, no need to be insecure at all imho. 

now drag harding in here aswell


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## Taron (Sep 27, 2021)

@mybadmemory Tssss... your super sweet air plane track was certainly a bit more than a snippet, but I totally hear you and actually can't believe it. Silly, but I thought that was my major malfunction, hahaha, because with orchestral compositions I never got beyond a few minutes of mostly- well- exploring. On my soundcloud profile I have another tiny playlist of older attempts, using a variety of libraries. Also, mostly just tiny snippets and slightly less tiny snippets, hahaha... 

The more I look around here, the more excited I get and also a wee bit more annoyed that Discover has not one legato patch, even if ever so crude, hehe... pity. Because, yeah, there's no way to counter that shortcoming aside from avoidance.


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## Taron (Sep 27, 2021)

@confusedsheep YES, "HARDING" that was his handle on reasonstation, dang it, I can't believe I forgot that. Haha, yeah, I'll ask him, but he's pretty preoccupied these days. Would be super fun to have him here, too. A few years back I actually visited him for a week, hehe... like 20 years after we "met". Awww, wow, the reasonstation crowd reunite!  ...oh, and THANK YOU! 

@Pincel ...thanks a lot, really! But the more I listen to what's here, the more I feel like digging up good legatos, hahahaha... arghhhh. So good! But, really, thank you!


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## Pincel (Sep 27, 2021)

Goddamn, I've listened to some of your 'One Synth Challenge' tracks, and the Charlatan synth track is out of this world! I love that little free synth so much, I feel like not enough people talk about it, and you really made sound like a million dollars in that track, just like you did with Discover haha! I'm in awe of your talent... Really. Clicking on this post was the best thing I did today for sure.


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## Alchemedia (Sep 27, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> It feels like you truly belong here ❤️ and yes: kudos on your BBCSO Discover explorations!


Taron's a freeware wizard! He could do a Masterclass on brilliant composing with the most limited VST and even make ChillBot reconsider his Omnisphere self-screwery commandment:
"4a. Do I have to buy Omnisphere? No, but you're screwing yourself."


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## Taron (Sep 27, 2021)

@Alchemedia Argh, I don't know ChillBot, but I hope he ain't mad now... 

Thank y'all, that's super sweet! 

@Pincel I absolutely loved Charlatan. I think, this was my second OSC track back in the day. This thing has such a smooth, rich sound. And I just picked up on some of the mixing tips then, properly using limiters there for the first time, haha.
Gradually I was improving my mixing, really all due to the OSC and the amazing musicians among us.
I have a number of favorite free VST synths, which have enough power to easily stand toe to toe with the big guns. Some of them ARE from the big guns, haha, like U-He's freebies, which are incredible. But we'd get lost in a heavy tangent, if you keep me going on all that. Ironically one synth that I believe is among the very best of them all is "Surge" and I have not done a track with it for some odd reason. It's sound design heaven.
OOOohhh, kind of reeling it back in, I did one fascinating "orchestral sounding" patch with the OB-X, I think, let me see... AH, I found it:

That was funny. I was just goofing around and then this happened. It is literally just one instance. Just thought it was fun. Never did anything with it, but hey.


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## Alchemedia (Sep 27, 2021)

Perhaps we can convince Taron to conduct a 12-Step VI-C Anti-GAS Program!  Seriously though, if you think it's impossible to create absolutely killer tracks exclusively with freeware synths check-out his amazing work--guaranteed to change your mind.


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## Pincel (Sep 27, 2021)

Taron said:


> @Alchemedia Argh, I don't know ChillBot, but I hope he ain't mad now...
> 
> Thank y'all, that's super sweet!
> 
> ...



I hear you, I'm a total believer in the power of freebie synths! We just have to dig a bit deeper sometimes to get that million dollar sound, but it is there in quite a few of them. I'm curious to try 'Surge' now, I've heard of it but never got to test it.

That patch sound like heaven! Amazingly full and rich sound.


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## Alchemedia (Sep 27, 2021)

Taron said:


> @Alchemedia Argh, I don't know ChillBot, but I hope he ain't mad now...


As long as we don't dis BotDog Piano I think we're okay.


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## Taron (Sep 28, 2021)

@Pincel you should totally check into Surge! Take your time and familiarize yourself with it carefully. It may be a tiny bit daunting at first, because it is a staggeringly complex synth for the visible amount of GUI elements. They go deep! Some functions aren't obvious, but the moment you get it, routing parameters is super flexible and access appears almost unlimited. For its size it's probably the most complex and wholesome synth imaginable. Sound is beautiful and high quality. Chances to create magic, well... kind of in the realm of limitlessness, hehe. No doubt, you can find flaws, but nothing you couldn't work with.

@Alchemedia ...I will have to forum-stalk ChillBot!


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## Taron (Sep 28, 2021)

Alchemedia said:


> Perhaps we can convince Taron to conduct a 12-Step VI-C Anti-GAS Program!  Seriously though, if you think it's impossible to create absolutely killer tracks exclusively with freeware synths check-out his amazing work--guaranteed to change your mind.


And once I will have figured out what an Anti-GAS Program may be, I'll be all over it...possibly!


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## confusedsheep (Sep 28, 2021)

speaking of sound-design wonders that somehow went under the radar...

besides surge there is also... 

(insert drumroll here...or braamm...or whatever to add tension)

https://www.hrastprogrammer.com/hrastwerk/tranzistow.htm

the interface is probably a bit daunting at first... the good news is...it comes with lots of patches... and that thing sounds impressive.

and it won´t break the bank either


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## Taron (Sep 28, 2021)

OMG, haha, "interface"... 
Yep, that is coolness.  ...not sure for how long my eyes can handle it, but I'm adventurous by nature!
Thanks, @confusedsheep !

Oh, and I had an idea about BBCSO Discover to create something legato like, tried it on Celli and it works pretty darn well! I made a MUX (the modular module for mutools' MuLab, while it also exists as its own VST). This MUX has...

• *Note Dispatcher
• 2 instances of BBCSO Discover with Celli LONG and their "Release" parameter set to 0
• *Audio Balancer 2->1
• additionally it has a modulation event routing to bring CC changes to both Discover instances

*Note Dispatcher routes Midi events to separate outputs to create, for example, Round Robins, alternating between independent Vsts. I have it set to "Keyed", which allows you to hit a chosen key (C-1 by default), to switch Midi outputs.

*Audio Balancer 2->1 let's you blend between 2 inputs

I must mention that you really need a separate reverb behind those in order to help the illusion. But that's a good idea anyway to bring all groups together, if you do it with care.

Now, you can't quite play live into it, but you would program the sequence, anticipating each next note how ever deep you want to go into its progress. Then you have an automation track for the Audio Balance, where you would make a curve to blend (crossfade) between the instances back and forth for when you want the next note to come in.





Whenever this is necessary, it's not the most terrible thing to deal with, except you have to keep track of which "Robin" is active, when you start. I guess, it would be wise to first ignore legato and then just do all this at the end, when you're done with these measures. But if you have nothing else to work with than Discover, pffff.... I mean. Hurray! 

OH, what does it sound like.... hmmm... it's a riduculously primitive little snippet, but well... here:


Tadah! I mean, I just came up with it, so there's certainly more to explore, but it's pretty interesting, I find. And I'm already starting to wonder, if this is not drifting way into another Topic for this forum. If someone has a good idea where I could stick a post like this one here, just let me know, please! 


I've just updated the little soundcloud snippet with some nudging on the Celli and adding a Basson. Mild Camouflage shouldn't be too shameful...


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## Harding (Sep 28, 2021)

Hi there all. Taron is a wonderful talent and I absolutely loved listening to everything he has done so far solely using Discover by Spitfire Audio. He emailed me some of those little gems but not every single one of them like he has posted over here. So I had no choice but joining this community so I can now follow everything he creates musically and to team up with some other fans he already has or soon will get. And a special shout out to all other old RS friends from the early 00's.


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## Taron (Sep 28, 2021)

Awww man...  ...well, heck, I'm super duper thrilled you came aboard!!! 
Let's make some NOISE!


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## confusedsheep (Sep 28, 2021)

well done taron! the sheep salute you ...and hi harding


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## SupremeFist (Sep 28, 2021)

These tracks sound incredible for Discover only (and are also really good!). Welcome!


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## Taron (Sep 29, 2021)

Alright, I'm still experimenting with my pseudo-legato and BBCSO Discover only...well...still the same thread. Anyway, here's my latest little experiment... eh... it's terrible. I'll add an improved version later. 

Well, it's still not great, but it's ALL about the little legato approach. Never mind mix, composition, balance, any of it, but consider this is Discover and the speed of it, too. I made it run quite a bit faster than I originally had it to sort of test its limits. And, yeah, this one goes a bit beyond the limit, but I think it holds the illusion almost well. Still "sucky", haha... meh:


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## cbdohrn (Sep 30, 2021)

Taron said:


> Holy hell, I feel now seriously insecure, hoping that I can share with you my early explorations with BBCSO Discover, mildly afraid that I'm miles upon miles behind where you folks are in this genre. So, while I have done a few occasional orchestral compositions with other libraries, I've never studied it, but picked up a few hints over the years, especially from a dear friend of mine, who is a professional musician/composer.
> 
> Thing is, I've never been around any other musicians, who care about orchestral composition. I believe, I'm looking for some decent pushes, something to tell me I wasn't crazy to enjoy exploring this and any feedback tends to give me more than just orientation. But something tells me, you know exactly what I'm talking about. It's just extra fun to dive into the right crowd and I have this feeling, this may be the place for it. However... ...no idea, if I can offer you as much inspiration as you do to me already. Incredible.
> 
> ...



Awesome work, Taron! I'm really impressed how you've got this great sounding tracks with BBCSO Discover. You really pushed its limits. Such rich orchestrations and variety of themes. Those Tiny Invaders are so weird and creative! 

Well, keep sharing these musical journeys with us. They are really great to hear!


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## Alchemedia (Sep 30, 2021)

confusedsheep said:


> speaking of sound-design wonders that somehow went under the radar...
> 
> besides surge there is also...
> 
> ...


Tranzistow is one of the very best sounding synths available regardless of price. 
To say the interface "is probably a bit daunting" is however an understatement.


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## Alchemedia (Sep 30, 2021)

Taron said:


> OMG, haha, "interface"...
> Yep, that is coolness.  ...not sure for how long my eyes can handle it, but I'm adventurous by nature!
> Thanks, @confusedsheep !
> 
> ...



Ah yes, I forgot you were the reigning King of MUX on OSC! Brilliant workaround Taron. I doubt anyone on VI-C uses MUTOOLS.


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## Taron (Oct 1, 2021)

cbdohrn said:


> Awesome work, Taron! I'm really impressed how you've got this great sounding tracks with BBCSO Discover. You really pushed its limits. Such rich orchestrations and variety of themes. Those Tiny Invaders are so weird and creative!
> 
> Well, keep sharing these musical journeys with us. They are really great to hear!


@cbdohrn AH, you found it, awesome! THANK YOU, that's fantastic encouragement and I'll see that I put it to good use! After hearing all you fantastic artists work with these beautiful libraries it becomes a little more challenging to ready myself for another wrestling-match with Discover, hahaha.... but I will most likely go for a few more rounds. 

@Alchemedia I will most certainly have a go at this one. I haven't listened to any demo of it, yet, except a few seconds of one of the tracks on the site. But I see no reason not to believe you! The description sounds very promising already. I hope, my eyes can handle it for any length of time.


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## Taron (Oct 3, 2021)

Pseudo - Slurs...

Alrighty, today I was having another funny idea: Using Global Tune to slur between notes. I've only used it on the high strings (violin 1 and 2) but never at the same time, to hide the weakness of it, of course. It actually is subtle, but kind of nice. The track then somehow ended up sounding like a Wild West Theme, hehehe, however that happened:

Of course, this is still pure BBCSO Discover, not like I have to mention it, but just in case...


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## ism (Oct 3, 2021)

Taron said:


> Pseudo - Slurs...
> 
> Alrighty, today I was having another funny idea: Using Global Tune to slur between notes. I've only used it on the high strings (violin 1 and 2) but never at the same time, to hide the weakness of it, of course. It actually is subtle, but kind of nice. The track then somehow ended up sounding like a Wild West Theme, hehehe, however that happened:
> 
> Of course, this is still pure BBCSO Discover, not like I have to mention it, but just in case...



That is extremely impressive for Discovery.


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## Taron (Oct 3, 2021)

@ism Thank you very much! Once you sort of go with it, give it a little EQ and allow yourself to mildly bend it to your will, it's quite wonderful. What makes it great is that you can just go for any amount of instruments without a worry in the world about your computer, hehe. But, yeah, it's crude. I'm enjoying it a lot, though. What a gift!


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## Taron (Oct 8, 2021)

AND another addition to my "Energies sets", testing different moods and arrangements, well... not all too many arrangement possibilities with Discover, but hey...



There's no way to reduce, let alone get rid of the reverb in Discover, which becomes particularly unfortunate, when you wish to play with the harp or carve any delicate moment out of this beauty, but well...


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## mybadmemory (Oct 8, 2021)

I’m amazed at what you push Discover to do. You could easily score an entire game with Discover only. Truly inspiring!


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## Alchemedia (Oct 8, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> I’m amazed at what you push Discover to do. You could easily score an entire game with Discover only. Truly inspiring!


Once Chris & Paul get a load of Taron they'll prob jack up the price of Discover!


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## Taron (Oct 8, 2021)

Hahaha, I hope they have a different reaction that would favor my spitfire joy instead! 
THANK YOU GUYS!


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## Alchemedia (Oct 8, 2021)

Taron said:


> Hahaha, I hope they have a different reaction that would favor my spitfire joy instead!
> THANK YOU GUYS!


I'm going to write Spitfire and suggest they gift you their entire catalog in exchange for you creating the ultimate version of "Chopsticks" with it.


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## Taron (Oct 8, 2021)

I'm a wee bit puzzled by that one, I must say.  ...it's the "Chopsticks" thing that feels like you either brutally insult my compositions, or overly praise my ability to make simple compositions sound better than they are, which, eh.... would also insult my compositions! 

Have to admit, though, the last one was really a bit on the "cheesy" side, which is reflected by the original working title from yesterday: "Cheesycrap101"


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## Alchemedia (Oct 8, 2021)

Taron said:


> I'm a wee bit puzzled by that one, I must say.  ...it's the "Chopsticks" thing that feels like you either brutally insult my compositions, or overly praise my ability to make simple compositions sound better than they are, which, eh.... would also insult my compositions!
> 
> Have to admit, though, the last one was really a bit on the "cheesy" side, which is reflected by the original working title from yesterday: "Cheesycrap101"


You're a trip Taron! 

On the contrary, I am unaware of anyone else who has your uncanny ability to make the most of the least, so I thought it would be an interesting experiment in creative reductionism for you to do the diametric opposite. Think of it as the antithesis to the OSC. Introduce Spitfire's oeuvre to Taron's magical funnel and make funnel cake, er, Pad Thai (I suppose you could eat funnel cake with chopsticks but that seems rather silly). In the process you could potentially cure many VI-C members of noxious GAS!


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## Taron (Oct 8, 2021)

Tehehehe... well, as long as you won't tell spitfire that Discover was "the least", hehehe... 
But, no, yes, eh, thank you, Al, I do love looking for strength in all its hiding places, hehe. 
The big libraries tend to scare me a bit, too, which is why Discover kind of paves the way to feel at ease, thinking about something like Core some day. In the meantime, I've found some other fun, free libraries to explore with a very different sound. The ProjectSAM stuff is fun, while a little too "presetish", which makes me feel a bit too much like a DJ, so to say, but there's some awesome quality stuff in there. I'm also totally open to any suggestion for free libraries, if you know some?!  ...hmmm, like I couldn't google for that myself? Hold on...


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## Alchemedia (Oct 9, 2021)

Taron said:


> Tehehehe... well, as long as you won't tell spitfire that Discover was "the least", hehehe...
> But, no, yes, eh, thank you, Al, I do love looking for strength in all its hiding places, hehe.
> The big libraries tend to scare me a bit, too, which is why Discover kind of paves the way to feel at ease, thinking about something like Core some day. In the meantime, I've found some other fun, free libraries to explore with a very different sound. The ProjectSAM stuff is fun, while a little too "presetish", which makes me feel a bit too much like a DJ, so to say, but there's some awesome quality stuff in there. I'm also totally open to any suggestion for free libraries, if you know some?!  ...hmmm, like I couldn't google for that myself? Hold on...


Check out these. Not too shabby for $5.00 or less:





Taste — Audio Ollie


15gb of quality Kontakt instruments for the price of a cup of coffee.




www.audioollie.com












Palette - Primary Colors - Red Room Audio


A FREE taste of Palette! This small sampling of our larger Palette Orchestral Series features strings, woodwinds and brass ensembles recorded using our True Ensemble Recording technique, with one microphone position and an abbreviated set of articulations. Now updated to v1.2!



redroomaudio.com


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## Taron (Oct 9, 2021)

Thanks, Al! Palette sounds nice, thanks! Curious concept. Weird, though, because it feels a bit off tune...hmm. Still, I like the vibrato, trem/flutter concept.


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## Taron (Oct 16, 2021)

A little contribution to Halloween with loads of weird slurs and more... but only Discover, of course!


Had to cut it short, hence the silly chord at the end... maybe I'll go back at it before the "festivities", pfff.


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## mybadmemory (Oct 16, 2021)

Love how you make something free sound more refined than the paid stuff just by sheer musicality.


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## Taron (Oct 16, 2021)

I keep wondering, if more refined libraries would rather prevent one from doing the sort of automation abuse to them that I rather shamelessly do to poor lil' Discover, hehehe... 

But THANK YOU, much, much appreciated!


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## mybadmemory (Oct 16, 2021)

Taron said:


> I keep wondering, if more refined libraries would rather prevent one from doing the sort of automation abuse to them that I rather shamelessly do to poor lil' Discover, hehehe...
> 
> But THANK YOU, much, much appreciated!


I guess you’ll have to try!


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## Kel (Jan 6, 2023)

Hello all nice ppl.

Taron! I recently have started orchestrating and learning to compose, I was deeply immersed in synth design those past years, but I have decided to give it a rest and learn to compose with "real" instruments.

I choose BBCSO discover for the sound. And I see you are a master at it. Some questions from this humble admirer if you don't mind.

-Are slurs and legato similar? can you do a fake legato with discover only(as I see in one of your examples should I think, yes?)

-is legato absolutely needed to do compositions in the world today, I mean videogames, film music, etc.

Many thanks, Actually hearing all your BBCSO discover creations, they sound so professional that I was thinking you bought PRO version or CORE.

Warm regards,
Al Gómez.


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## Taron (Jan 6, 2023)

Hey Al ( @Kel ), what a wonderful and uplifting message, still counting as a New Year motivator to me! 

Is legato a necessity for wholesome compositions? Ultimately: yes!

I'm saying this, because you could get away with certain styles that may not ask for legato type of lead sections or such lush, smooth and convincing supporting lines/phrases, but it would surely limit your stylistic freedom.

BBCSO Discover is very raw with rather large intervals between samples, but that allows you to bend samples within such intervals without changing the overall character of them. But you then must be careful which notes you choose to bend (automating global tune).

For example:
Violin 1 sustains unique samples:
G3, G#3, D4, G#4, D5...etc, etc...
That means you only want to bend notes between G# up to C# or D up to G. If you wanted/needed to bend across these samples like from G to A you could still do it, but you'd want two instances of Discover and then crossfade as you bend the G instance up from 0.00st to 2.00st at the same time you bend the A instance from -2.00st to 0.00st. 

Most important is to set the Release parameter to 0. This is not a parameter you see on their GUI, but you have to get to its raw parameters. Every DAW offers some access to them. 
Then you probably would want to use an external Reverb plugin, but you could use Discover's own reverb as well.

Slurs vs. Legato? Well, when I talk about slurs, I do think of legato related portamento like transitions, mostly in faster runs. I'm looking at it from a practical, programmable type of view. Instead of going straight from one note to the next, a tiny bend connects them.

In MuLab you can give an automation lane such as for Global Tune a value grid of 72, for example, which makes it very easy to place curve (envelope) points on exact semi tone offsets. I haven't looked for that in Cubase, yet, or anywhere else for that matter, but that's a fantastic feature for quick editing of legato slurs.

Another big tip is to adjust the modulation automation (dynamics) so that between notes you briefly bring it down. It creates not only a more natural sound between the notes, but allows you to fine tune the timing, too.

Oh, jeeez, I'm writing too much already. Maybe I should make a video about it at some point. It's very easy and loads of fun, because it not only won't stop your creative flow, but adds a different kind of awareness to it. You get to immerse yourself more deeply into individual player sections and really think and feel what they should be doing.

All this gives you in effect a stunningly deep level of control, which you may end up missing in expensive libraries to some extend. Since you and me both come from the synth world, you'll likely appreciate this approach just as much as I do and will soon love it, too. But it does require an alert mind, finding your groove with this method. Once you have it, though, it's a breeze and quickly becomes second nature.

I hope that gave you some inspiration and don't ever hesitate to ask, if you think I could help!


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## Houdini (Jan 6, 2023)

This thread is truly inspirational! The things you can do with Discover and LABS, as long as you know what you're doing haha

Thank you Taron for showing what is possible!


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## Kel (Jan 6, 2023)

Taron said:


> Hey Al ( @Kel ), what a wonderful and uplifting message, still counting as a New Year motivator to me!
> 
> Is legato a necessity for wholesome compositions? Ultimately: yes!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the long response. I will put it to practice.

Btw, bbcso discover works so well in my prehistoric computer that I can throw a dozen instances without a hitch.

And, I use fl studio, there are two ways to find release (or any hidden control) just touch something and go to "last tweaked" or simply go to the folder explorer at left and look on generator by name. Ah, there are interesting hidden controls on bbcso...

Thanks!


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## Taron (Saturday at 1:33 AM)

Hehe, great!  ...I love how lightweight it is. I had it run on this $100 miniPC when my main machine died and it was one of the things that kept me very happy.

Only a few parameters are active, so don't get too excited. I believe, release may be the only really hidden one. stereo flip works, too, but may also be somewhere in the main gui, I forgot.


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## Kel (Saturday at 1:47 AM)

Taron said:


> Hehe, great!  ...I love how lightweight it is. I had it run on this $100 miniPC when my main machine died and it was one of the things that kept me very happy.
> 
> Only a few parameters are active, so don't get too excited. I believe, release may be the only really hidden one. stereo flip works, too, but may also be somewhere in the main gui, I forgot.


Oh, my gosh, 100$ pc and you still get to do music. We can see spitfire are wizards at optimizing code!


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## Taron (Saturday at 1:50 AM)

Tehehehe, well, really, it is a sample player with very little extra and a small sample pool. What makes it wonderful is the shared content across instances. I'll always be grateful for it.
Another super lightweight sample player is Sforzando, which really does a heck of a lot more than that and ran fantastically on this little computer, too. You'll find the few experiments of mine with it among my soundcloud tracks, too.


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## Kel (Saturday at 1:56 AM)

Taron said:


> Tehehehe, well, really, it is a sample player with very little extra and a small sample pool. What makes it wonderful is the shared content across instances. I'll always be grateful for it.
> Another super lightweight sample player is Sforzando, which really does a heck of a lot more than that and ran fantastically on this little computer, too. You'll find the few experiments of mine with it among my soundcloud tracks, too.


I advocate for this.
Sforzando is very flexible and is like sf2 tech on steroids. I got to play with it with VSCO 2 CE.

Btw, I was grown up with the speccy so I do know the c64 machines.

Do you like VSCO? You should do a thread with experiments on it. I'm sure only masterpieces would emerge from that


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## Taron (Saturday at 2:10 AM)

Oh, but I do! But only 3 tracks... I think. Again, those were all with the tiny miniPC. I could start a little thread, why not... hold on!
*Exploring Sforzando...*


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## Kel (Monday at 1:07 AM)

Hey Taron, I had enough time to hear all your compositions. Some of the best work I had the pleasure to hear.

A little question a bit offtopic. Do you start with a melody, or counterpoint, or rhythm when composing?
After more than 15 years trying to learn to compose, today I learned about rhythm! My problem is that many eons ago I learned about jamming and jazz scales so I do suffer from being too fast and jammy (and not being able to Scape the dreaded 4x4 tempos).


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## Taron (Monday at 5:39 AM)

Thank you very much, @Kel , what a fantastic message to start my day!  

Especially with orchestral compositions I have the wild problem that I tend to want to go 3/4 and have to force myself into 4/4 at times. But then sometimes I let myself go and some more adventurous signatures emerge. Rare, but it happens.
Puh, there are great many ways I may start a composition with. By now it's so diffuse that I can't even start off my saying "most of the time...". Let me make a little list instead:

1) *When I let an instrument* inspire me*. Depending on the nature of the instrument this could be...
• a sort of ostinato I land on, a kind of pattern hook that lends itself to exciting harmonic progressions.
• chords as I try to avoid go-to progressions of mine until they begin speaking to me.
• a melody a certain instrument seems to want to play or makes me want to play.

*whether I play with libraries or while I create my own synth patches

2) *When I let percussion lead me. *Especially with synth tracks I would create my drum patches, find my speed and have at it. It's very difficult for me to break my own standards there, which is a bit weird.

3) *When I wish to explore certain styles or genres. *I tend to hear parts of the whole track inside my head and have to pick what of it I wish to start with. This could be a rhythmic pattern, could be a kind of cadence things want to end up with or particular modulations, inspired by classic motives from a feeling point of view, modulations, juxtapositions, harmonic conversations that fall into the style.

4) *When I decide to want to manifest a music that plays in my head (while smoking a cigarette outside)*. There's almost no moment without music playing in my mind. 99% of the time it's just something I feel and not an "earworm" of music I'd know. (Ever had a whole day of some Blondi track in your head? Dear God!). But I rarely try to realize any of it. Whenever I start composing, I let things come to me then and there. However, when I go for it, the most challenging part is really the choice of instrument to lead the way, if it was a melody. Very often it is a whole orchestra, though, and that's when it gets quite challenging altogether and a bit exhausting. 

5) Probably most often: *Throw on some keys and channel away. *This becomes a back and forth between whatever comes along as leader, which could be a bass transforming chord harmonies, chords that suggest a melody or a melody that answers chords or ostinatos or any more abstract rhythmic patterns with leading accents. There's literally no rule to what takes over. It's whatever goes through me then and I likely choose instruments for it all later or as what I play begins to ask for them.

6) A friend has a musical problem of sorts and I decide to help with an example. Not as rare as I'd have thought. But I absolutely love doing that, too. You'll likely never hear any of this, though.


7) Rarest of them all would be me *premeditating on a melody*. That almost never happens, but when it does it's kind of funny, because it's so easy. It must've been 2021 when I participated in Spitefire's Christmas compo and I thought of what could be a typical Christmas song. Literally dozens of simple melodies went through my head and I just had to pick one. That was almost eerie, but fun.

Key to me is really not quite so much how I start any of it, while I may contradict myself there at some other time.  
Point is, especially with orchestral work, I still have so much to learn that my focus there is often on the arrangement, like trying to compose to feature certain sections I haven't explored enough, yet, building up moments that would ask for them. I may try to create certain feelings I admire and love about symphonic music or even film scores and then allow inner pictures to push me to musically visualize these moments and try to sense what arrangements and nature of phrases they may need/want. In other words, very often then throw in an indistinct "opening", allowing me to get to these moments.
It even happens that I'm only interested in a certain kind of flourish, like a run of some kind, because of how exhilarating it feels to me.

Oh, jeez, I could go on and on, because so many reasons make me start recording, make me want to create. But when it comes to starting a track, hmmmm.... well, maybe there is a "most often", because most often I tend to want to challenge myself, try not to tumble into my own patterns. There are times when I happily ignore all that, but even while I'm channeling, I don't want to "improvise" with "the words I know", if you know what I mean. I always want to break my own mold, knowing full well that I cannot do that anyway. But at least I keep breaking my hull, allowing some sort of growth around me (which sounds totally disgusting, wooops  ). By now I'm probably so utterly misshapen, that I find traditional motives or classic cadences curious enough to wanting to explore them more, too. Pick back up some existing musical language here and there.

All this appears to be my way to warn you about asking me questions!


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