# Vanity



## lux (Jun 10, 2008)

http://www.archisounds.net/Luca_Thomas_Vanity.mp3

thanks


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## MettaAudio (Jun 11, 2008)

Good work, Luca! Beautiful piece. I particularly like some of your chord progressions amd I think your phrasing sounds nice and natural. I also really like the way you balanced your winds vs strings. The wind parts are there and add a bit of color, but they never take over. I suppose if you ever wanted to add some more contrast, bringing out the winds would be the way to do it, but for this piece the way you've mixed it works for me.

The only thing that really didn't work for me is the plucked sound just under the opening string parts. I think it's an arpeggiated harp, but since it's in the exact same range as the strings, it sounds like distortion to me. I would either take it out all together or change it's register so it has its own space to sit in.

Thanks for sharing this beautiful piece!

John


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## mixolydian (Jun 12, 2008)

Very nice and flowing theme, breathing orchestration. Really like it (as always! :D) - if I had to vote this would be my No.1 of all time Luca Classics.  Sounds as it is directly taken from a movie like Dragonfly which means this is a real winner.


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## re-peat (Jun 12, 2008)

Sorry, Luca, but my impression is the exact opposite of what's written in the previous posts. I don't think this is one of your better efforts at all.

First of all, I have a serious problem with the sound of this piece - it's a very 'accordeon-esque' sound, neither believable or good, to my ears. The arrangement and production is rather unfocused and messy and the whole thing sounds more like a rough first draft for something than an actual finished opus.

Performance-wise, it does sound (to me, anyway) as if everyone involved is incredible tired and bored with the piece: there seems to be no enthusiam whatsoever to communicate the musical ideas of this piece.

And talking about those musical ideas: I have feeling - based on previous pieces which I heard from you - that you can doodle these type of tunes one after the other without much effort or concentration. A bit strange that you singled this particular one out to work on.

Sorry for having to be so negative this time, but I felt I could do it because I know how good you usually are. This negative reaction is, in other words, a form of sincere respect.

_


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## mixolydian (Jun 12, 2008)

re-peat @ Thu Jun 12 said:


> I have feeling - based on previous pieces which I heard from you - that you can doodle these type of tunes one after the other without much effort or concentration.


Someone would have called it style or personality. :wink:


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## lux (Jun 12, 2008)

Hey,

thank you all for the comments 

John, thanks. Agree about the harp thing.

Thanks a lot also to Leo and Mixolidian!

Re-peat, thanks, i appreciate your comment, i know where you come from and see the overall sense of your honest feedback. 

That would be a long discussion about what i like and dislike of my production, too long. In short, this is sorta sketch piece, yes. Probably all my cues are. In general i'm not the kind of composer that tends to overstimulate himself to not get bored, its a matter of personal feeling i guess. Sometimes I feel nice with sweet melodies without asking myself too much in terms of acrobatics, sometimes i like something completely different, sometimes i simply do not like anything. I try to have a self indulgent approach, i try to improve, but i also leave myself free to play kids tunes, heavy metal, polka, C turnarounds, perhaps also infamous HZ style tracks without caring too much of how this makes me more or less a serious musician. In general music produces me lot of fun, simplicistic, but hey...

About the Miroslav choice, I'm aware of the inner limits. In general one of the thing that makes me sketch with it is how it responds to my fingers. I like playing, i never compose in a serious meaning of the term. I play. Most of the things i've done are created and sequenced in a handful of hours, generally 3-4. One of the problems i feel with the recent libs is that they do not seem suited for playing. So they are often uninspiring to me. 

About the opportunity to post a piece with old samples and not perfect performance, its a matter of views, of course. 

Thanks again all for the responses so far

Luca


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## rayinstirling (Jun 12, 2008)

comments made here were on the original mix. DELETED


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## lux (Jun 12, 2008)

ok, thanks.


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## rayinstirling (Jun 12, 2008)

comments on original mix DELETED


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## lux (Jun 12, 2008)

Ray,

what do you expect me to say? I took note of your comment, thats a personal feeling and thanked you. No reason to be iper sensitive about it. There was nothing to reply except ok and thanks.

I honestly cant care less about what people expects me to post. The only reason i post here is a little communication gesture. I feel authorized to post anything i like, even a fart. I'm not interested to inspire everyone. I just play and post if I feel to do it. Probably not a good move annymore it seems.

Luca


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 12, 2008)

lux @ 12/6/2008 said:


> Probably not a good move annymore it seems.
> 
> Luca



Luca, don't tell me that you've come to that conclusion after only a couple of people told you what they truly thought? So what if they don't like it? Take it on the chin, but don't use those as examples to prove that you should stop posting any kind of music. I'm afraid that this kind of attitude can set a bad precedent, where everyone is scared to be honest for fear of hurting someone to the point where they stop posting clips.

For the record, I'm in a cafe with no headphones, so I can't comment on your piece. But I can say that you're a good composer, regardless of whether or not you write good pieces everytime you compose.


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## lux (Jun 12, 2008)

its not a matter of comments, really.

But please dont give me lessons about how honest feedbacks help people. Everyone here is pretty sensitive about his music. Re-peat is sensitive. Ray is sensitive. You are sensitive.

My favourite buddies, people with good experience, are heavily sensitive about their music. Is part of the composer baggage, isnt it?

Anyway we got better things to do than starting any big drama, so lets just give it a break and lets make this thread die.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 12, 2008)

Being sensitive is one thing. I know what you're talking about, everybody, including me, (or nearly) is sensitive about their music. But poisoning the air by saying that maybe the forum is not good anymore for you to post in because of a couple of comments is dumb. Just being honest about my feelings. :wink:


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## lux (Jun 12, 2008)

i see your point. But being honest as well, i dont think the actual attitude of vicontrol has nothing to do with the two comments above. 

what about making this thread die?

Thanks
Luca


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 12, 2008)

Speaking of critique:

In *general*, I've found that the majority of comments about my music posted here is positive. Now I know that there are some people who must not be into what I've done, or have strong opinions against my use of certain loops, the form, etc. But they mostly don't post, I think. What I want to get at is that I honestly believe that I can only grow if I get constructive comments/feedback that point out what doesn't work at all, what is boring, how I might have made this work better, etc. Most comments are so supportive, and great ego strokers for sure (love it), but they must also serve to entice me to keep doing the same thing, fall into the same musical habits; I don't do it consciously, I think, but I must do it to some degree nonetheless.

What's the point of this post? I guess I'd like to see more constructive criticism even than there is here these days. IMO, the best way to grow as a composer is to be open to new ways of seeing your own work, even if it can be painful at times.


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## lux (Jun 12, 2008)

Ned, i know you and your attitude. So please forgive me but i really have no intention to start a lesson thread about usefullness of critiques and honesty.


I just ask you to make this thread die and perhaps start another one on the matter 

Thanks
Luca


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## artsoundz (Jun 12, 2008)

If I were Luca- I wouldnt have found the word "doodle" helpful. And I would have been irritated w Mr. Stirling. Everything had been said and replied to by then. 

Considering the tone, I think Luca responded appropriately and didnt owe a hug to Ray and being patronized further on how to react to criticism. In fact, Luca's response was professional, humble and explained very well a part of his process of composing many of us share.

I think he took it on the chin very well but few can handle being kicked in the nuts.


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## rJames (Jun 12, 2008)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Thu Jun 12 said:


> Speaking of critique:
> ...
> 
> ... I guess I'd like to see more constructive criticism even than there is here these days. IMO, the best way to grow as a composer is to be open to new ways of seeing your own work, even if it can be painful at times.



Here, here. I don't post criticism at VI because people usually want praise. (I'm NOT talking about Luca but about VI members in general) Praise is good when you've done something spectacular (cause you know you should repeat those actions). But casual praise doesn't help (me) at all.

@ RayStirling...I don't mean to criticize you but there isn't much response necessary to your post. If you give a specific critique, then you may get a response. not much to say to, "I've heard better from you before."

@ everybody...The thing about criticism. You CAn get it here from professionals (although it is up to each of us to figure out, for ourselves, who knows what they are talking about and who is just giving an uneducated opinion.) [@ Kid Surf...by "uneducated" I mean an opinion that has not been educated by experience or scholastic endeavors or whatever other ways there are to obtain an education] But also, every opinion is valid as it is what someone truly feels about the piece.

BUT prospective clients won't give criticism. they just push your stuff aside and wait for someone else's CD to come by.

That's why thoughtful critique at VI is so important.


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## rayinstirling (Jun 13, 2008)

discussion following original mix DELETED


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## lux (Jun 13, 2008)

anyone read the part of my post where i was talking about letting this thread die?

Oh, and in general, please dont bullshit me with this rethorical honesty, the importance of the critiques and such. I'm smart enough to get that portion of the sense of life myself. I'm probably less open to critiques on this forum, and i believe i'm perhaps not just gettnig crazy. This place is no more what was intended to be. 

...Look back when I was almost killed because i was just considering alternatives to Spectrasonics Athmosphere...

Thanks anyone for the comments, i appreciate all of you personally, trust me. Ray, i'm also pretty aware of the sincerity of your comment and appreciated it, believe me.

Just a final side note to re-peat. I was at a first read surprised by the usage of the word "this time" in your post, because I think i never heard a word from you about my music, nor we talked about the deep sense of music in our modern society here or anywhere else.

Luca


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## artsoundz (Jun 13, 2008)

re-peat @ Fri Jun 13 said:


> In as much as my thoughts on Luca's piece may be considered helpful, I think the word 'doodle' is actually very helpful because it describes exactly what I think is weak about the melody of this piece: it's the sort of melody that Luca can compose 10 specimen of in one afternoon, with his eyes closed. I know it and I believe he knows it too.
> 
> Secondly, Artsoundz, if not participating in the obligato applause, but instead offering a honest and thoughtful opinion, is considered 'kicking someone in the nuts', than I really don't see any point in this forum whatsoever, other than being a silly replica of the web's most pathetic and ridiculous kindergarten: the Listening Room over at NS, where even people devoid of any talent for music are sheepishly hailed as great composers and where everybody seems to have turned completely deaf because of the constant ringing of bravo's that fills the air over there.
> 
> ...



I wasnt refering to you and found your critique for the most part appropriate.

what a strange thread...


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## re-peat (Jun 13, 2008)

Strange indeed. Sorry about that little misunderstanding, Artsoundz.

_


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## JohnnyMarks (Jun 17, 2008)

re-peat @ Thu Jun 12 said:


> Sorry, Luca, but my impression is the exact opposite of what's written in the previous posts. I don't think this is one of your better efforts at all.
> 
> First of all, I have a serious problem with the sound of this piece - it's a very 'accordeon-esque' sound, neither believable or good, to my ears. The arrangement and production is rather unfocused and messy and the whole thing sounds more like a rough first draft for something than an actual finished opus.
> 
> ...



Re-peat,

I'm struck by the direct contrast of your critique here to my impression of your work (which you've previously posted): contrived and overwrought, as if the product of a pretentious, obsessive-compulsive sort of person. Do know that I write this with utmost sincerity.

Normally wouldn't share thoughts like this, but having learned you find this sort of thing helpful, thought I'd, well...help out! 

Have a nice day! :D


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## rJames (Jun 17, 2008)

Johnny, thanks for adding to the intelligent discourse.

A perfect example of why I won't give constructive criticism on the forum.


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## nikolas (Jun 18, 2008)

Ok!

That's that!

I'm printing this thread to PDF, just to have it for keeps! :D :D :D

How about being musicians for musicians, huh? Very nice of Luca to share yet another track of his, anybody able to provide feedback does so, feedback to peronalities does not count. 

I mean... woah! (and this is not geared towards rJames latest post!)

And for the record, I did download Lucas piece, but since he's deleted the post, I don't think he's looking for feedback anymore!


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## mixolydian (Jun 18, 2008)

rJames @ Tue Jun 17 said:


> A perfect example of why I won't give constructive criticism on the forum.


Due to all respect do you think that was a constructive criticism?



nikolas @ Wed Jun 18 said:


> And for the record, I did download Lucas piece, but since he's deleted the post, I don't think he's looking for feedback anymore!


As these thread goes on and I listened to that track over again I'm really looking for your feedback - in terms of learning as a musician and listener. Please PM me, Nikolas, cause I really like to see your point of view as your comments are always very helpful and greatly appreciated.


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## JohnnyMarks (Jun 18, 2008)

rJames @ Tue Jun 17 said:


> Johnny, thanks for adding to the intelligent discourse.
> 
> A perfect example of why I won't give constructive criticism on the forum.


Perhaps you've missed my point so I'll spell it out: I regard criticism constructive when aimed at the specifics of the composition itself. A tough love routine casting aspersions on the discipline and motivation of the composer I do not find constructive.


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## re-peat (Jun 18, 2008)

Luca,

Very good of you to delete a post that says that I have a noobie-ish taste in music, that I only participate in discussions when I can say something negative and, last but not least, that I've always been a very unhelpful member here at V.I. ...

One more little thing: can you point me to the thread where I made that remark about Berlioz being a mediocre musician? It's just that I can't find it, and I'd like to read in which context I said something so silly. Many thanks in advance!

_


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## JohnnyMarks (Jun 18, 2008)

Well sh#t that's lovely, glad you put it back up. The secondary dominant you sprinkled in at about :40 came over quite poignantly I felt. You manage the energy in the piece well and it ends up feeling well-rounded, a journey. 

Not stroking you because of the troubles here, just liked the composition.

If you're looking for a sequence to polish, I think this one's worthy of your time. I did however find myself listening to the music, not the sequencing, so in my opinion the work you've done is good enough to convey the composition.


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## Joanne Babunovic (Jun 23, 2008)

Nice Luca! I found my ears anticipating/literally straining to listen for interesting nuances and that is always the hallmark of a great composition - at least for me. It is not at all predictable, even with an established melody and liked the horn counterpoints lots. 

I try to produce with no piano or guitar chords as the base, as you cannot hear all the harmonics of a chord and have it reach potential until it is expressed exclusively with strings and then maybe a wind/brass. Problem is it is so time-consuming ( and hard) - especially on slower passages. I really appreciate works like this. 

Regards,
Joanne


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## Niah (Jul 3, 2008)

hmm I really like this composition.

I find miroslav having a sort of full texture like sound that I really miss in the new libraries. So I've found no problems listening to this. The sequecing and programming is also very well done.


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## lux (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks a lot Johnny, Joanne and Niah for the kind words and thoughts, much appreciated!

Luca


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## CFDG (Jul 3, 2008)

Listened to Vanity four times and I NS you not : It's beautiful. I dig the melodic progression.

Christian


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## lux (Jul 4, 2008)

Thanks a lot Christian


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## synthetic (Jul 4, 2008)

Very nice piece! I don't know what the hell people are talking about. Add some dynamic phrasing and I think it will work great. I also found the harp distracting, it needs to be either louder or softer, 

It makes me want to push myself off the ground, struggling under my weary legs, even though arrows continue to pierce my skin. A ray of light glows along my path as I reach towards the pressed flower in the dirt, a token from my lost love...

I guess I'm saying it sounds like James Horner, in a good way.


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## JohnnyMarks (Jul 5, 2008)

OK, listened again a week or so later and had to come back and say: this is absolutely gorgeous, full of sentiment without being sentimental, disarming, and written with great sophistication a Joanne alluded to. My favorite composition heard here listening several years.

And the sequencing IS bugging me now as I like the piece so much. Luca, find an orchestra to perform this if you can, samples don't do it justiceòjö   ~‡°jö   ~‡±jö   ~‡²jö   ~‡³jö   ~‡´jö   ~‡µjö


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## lux (Jul 6, 2008)

Thankyou Jeff, I enjoyed the sequence 

Thanks again Johnny for the very kind support!

Luca


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