# Ball park figure for a video game full time job



## Patrick de Caumette (Nov 16, 2007)

I need help from my friends: what do you think would be a fair rate for a full time position as a programmer/composer for a successful video game company? (which includes benefits)

Thanks folks!


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## José Herring (Nov 16, 2007)

I know a guy that does art work full time for a big video game company and he gets $250,000. He has a lot of experience, but think big. That industry isn't exactly hurting for money these days.

best,

Jose


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## José Herring (Nov 16, 2007)

Folmann @ Fri Nov 16 said:


> I don't know where Jose's friend is working, but I would love to know, since the number he mentions is ... how should I put it ... made of mushroom substance.
> 
> (o)



haha!!

He worked for Sony. He has a lot of experience. Probably close to 15 years. He started way back at Atari in the early '90's. He then got offered a job with George Lucas but he turned it down because he said that Lucas films didn't pay enough!! Now he's got a job somewhere near San Francisco. He also owns a home that's worth 1.3 million and has 3 others.

So yes at first I thought he was bluffing. But with all that he's got I don't think so. I don't think he could afford all that on a mere $90,000 salaried job.

But then again I don't know anything about the game industry or what it pays.

Jose


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## Waywyn (Nov 17, 2007)

Folmann @ Sat Nov 17 said:


> _"...But then again I don't know anything about the game industry or what it pays..."_
> 
> Rest assured. You friend is one hell of a drug dealer.
> 
> /\~O



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Scott Cairns (Nov 17, 2007)

Hi Pat, it also depends on where you work geographically speaking. An Aussie friend of mine has a full time position with a game dev in the Bay Area. He told them that he'd need a slightly higher salary because the living expenses in the Bay Area are quite high compared to many other parts of the States.

I can put you in touch with him if you like, he gets regular job offers and is up to date with salary expectations. That said, he works 90% as a sound designer, and is lucky to do some very occasional composing.

Lastly, when you say 'programmer/composer' - do you mean midi programming?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Nov 17, 2007)

Pat,

Congrats, man! Whichever company gets you is very lucky! o-[][]-o o=<


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## Patrick de Caumette (Nov 17, 2007)

Ned, Jose, Troells and Scott: thank you for all of your answers fellows, it is really appreciated!

I do not have the job yet but since they'd like to know how much I would like in terms of salary, I decided to turn to you for advice.

At the lowest figure ($70,000) the salary is not worth justifying dropping everything I am currently doing, relocating and working exclusively for one company.
At the highest ($250,000) I'll move to the north pole in a heart beat...

And Scott: it is mostly MIDI programing. Another reason for me to need a good salary to make the move, since I would not be doing audio production for a while...


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Nov 17, 2007)

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## nikolas (Nov 17, 2007)

Pat,

Not exactly the advice you're after but maybe it'll help.

How much do you make as a freelancer right now? Put 25-35% extra (at least) and go for it.

My wife is an architect and is currently looking to change offices. And the general rule of thumb is that you don't move unless you do get a 20% or something close to that. The hussle is simply not worth it otherwise.

I guess it's the same with you case.

Whatever you decide, best of luck.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Nov 17, 2007)

Thanks for the advice Nikolas.
It makes good sense.

But as you can imagine, income varies when you freelance.
Last year I made over 100K.
This year, I'm lucky if I get to 70K :| 
(but the year is not over yet :wink: )


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## Scott Cairns (Nov 17, 2007)

On the point of freelancing Pat, its important to negotiate into your contract that you can still do outside gigs. My aforementioned friend landed his job in the Bay Area, moved there from Aus, and right at the last moment noticed that his contract said he cant do ANY other work other than that for the company. 

He's been doing Nintendo work for over 15 years and has a steady list of clòÇ   g 4Ç   g 5Ç   g 6Ç   g 7Ç   g 8Ç   g 9Ç   g :Ç   g ;Ç   g <Ç   g =Ç   g >Ç   g ?Ç   g @È


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## Lunatique (Nov 17, 2007)

$250K is ridiculous amount of money for an artist. I'm a studio art director for a game publisher/developer and I know the industry very well, and I can tell you that a salary like that is more like a high level senior manager kind of salary. Some CEO's of small companies don't even make that much. Is this friend "just an artist" or is he actually a high level studio art director/senior artist? There's a big difference between an "artist" and someone who's basically the head of the entire art department. 

Audio/composing full-time jobs in games rarely pay over 6 figures, so try not to get your hopes up too much. But if you have lots of experience already as a game audio guy, then it may be possible to get offered close to or slightly above 6 figures, but I think without some well-known AAA titles under your belt, that may not happen. There are always exceptions though--some people just get lucky so you never know.


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## Aaron Sapp (Nov 17, 2007)

Hey Robert, what company do you work for?


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## José Herring (Nov 17, 2007)

Lunatique @ Sat Nov 17 said:


> $250K is ridiculous amount of money for an artist. I'm a studio art director for a game publisher/developer and I know the industry very well, and I can tell you that a salary like that is more like a high level senior manager kind of salary. Some CEO's of small companies don't even make that much. Is this friend "just an artist" or is he actually a high level studio art director/senior artist? There's a big difference between an "artist" and someone who's basically the head of the entire art department.
> 
> Audio/composing full-time jobs in games rarely pay over 6 figures, so try not to get your hopes up too much. But if you have lots of experience already as a game audio guy, then it may be possible to get offered close to or slightly above 6 figures, but I think without some well-known AAA titles under your belt, that may not happen. There are always exceptions though--some people just get lucky so you never know.



_Link removed to protect the innocent._

Here's a profile. I know nothing about the industry so maybe I'm wrong. Don't know.

Jose


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## sbkp (Nov 17, 2007)

In Bizarro universe, yes


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## Lunatique (Nov 17, 2007)

Aaron - I'm currently at iWin, a casual game publisher/developer. This is my first time in the casual market (I came from core games and CG animation/film background).

Jose - 250k for Senior environment artist? I have never heard of anything like that--ever. I know a matter painter for film special effects making 200K a year, but I'm assuming that's when he's got big Hollywood blockbuster projects lined up back-to-back in that year (film artists are all project based--very few are "full-time employees").

BTW, your friend may not want people to know he's making that much? :D


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## José Herring (Nov 17, 2007)

Lunatique @ Sat Nov 17 said:


> Aaron - I'm currently at iWin, a casual game publisher/developer. This is my first time in the casual market (I came from core games and CG animation/film background).
> 
> Jose - 250k for Senior environment artist? I have never heard of anything like that--ever. I know a matter painter for film special effects making 200K a year, but I'm assuming that's when he's got big Hollywood blockbuster projects lined up back-to-back in that year (film artists are all project based--very few are "full-time employees").
> 
> BTW, your friend may not want people to know he's making that much? :D



Well glad I know the truth now.

If he's not making at least 200k/year then really he's no friend of mine.

/\~O


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## Lunatique (Nov 18, 2007)

Just for our amusement, I went ahead and talked to a bunch of my peers in games/film (some work on huge AAA tiltes and giant Hollywood blockbusters), and these are their comments regarding the 250k salary:

"horseshit and fallacy.

the only time an artists would hit near that number is every 2-3 years when they release an amazing AAA title and sell a gajillion copies and have a decent royalty/ship bonus plan."

"LOL no I'd say that's rather inflated for a VFX artist, unless they were a show supe or something. I agree with Nathan - the only way someone would be making that money is with a ton of royalties."

"i remember when i read about what the guys at Id were making ( when you tallied up their royalties into the mix ). the number was something around 600k ( around the time of quake 3 ) all i have to say is dont question it . if theres a superstar thats making that much out there, then theres someone whos setting a high standard and asking a comfortable rate for his work its all good imo "

"It seems the right amount for a senior compositor, but a little excessive for a senior env artist, especially in the game market (which has a history of underpaying it's artists)... Who knows? Maybe they really think he deserves it!"

"Wow. I had no idea any artists were hitting those numbers. Thats approaching producer salaries from where I'm from."

"Some of the game producers here don't get close to a quarter of that."

So there you go. Hopefully this will give you a better insight into the world of game/film artist salaries.


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## rgames (Nov 21, 2007)

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned benefits - they can make a big difference, often the equivalent of $20k or $30k a year. Especially if you have kids and are paying for healthcare. Then there are other considerations like 401k matching, life insurance, pension, etc...

If you're working with no benefits (e.g. as a contractor or as a freelancer), I'd take a hard look at how much you're actually netting out as compared to a gig that pays a lower salary but has a good benefits package.

rgames


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