# Please Help Me Break My Processor Procrastination!



## mattnedgus (Jan 16, 2022)

Essentially I'm torn between the 5800X/5900X/5950X (or i9-10900KF) and I keep going round in circles trying to weigh up price : performance (especially at lower buffer settings where things seem more uncertain).

It sounds like the 5000 series chips have closed a performance-at-low-buffer-sizes gap on Intels (Jim Roseberry over on thegearpage.net mentions 24 vs 16 buffers respectively and I had a look through the SOS 2020/Scans 2021 DAWbench tests) but I wonder if somehow that would make the 5000 series perform comparatively worse at 32?

Then there's AMD changeover to AM5 sockets with the 7000 series chips later this year (and the hopefully-better availability of DDR5 RAM) I'm torn as to whether to build a hold-over system or one-to-last...

I'm not ready for big productions with lots of tracks but I want to be able to get good performance at low (64 or the lower the better) buffer settings so I can play in live over Thunderbolt through a Quantum 2626.


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## wayne_rowley (Jan 16, 2022)

Some questions and comments:

1. What type of music do you record and produce? This will affect your processor choice. If it's mainly live with some VI then you can get away with a lower spec processor.

2. I can easily play/monitor recording VIs at either 128 or 256 buffer without real issues.

3. Do you need a new system now? if so get what you need. If not, wait. There is always something better coming out in a few months time!

4. AMD has historically been less reliable with Thunderbolt and audio devices compared with Intel. Make sure your interface will work with your chosen motherboard/thunderbolt implementation. If the supplier won't support it, choose one that they will.

Wayne


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## easyrider (Jan 16, 2022)

mattnedgus said:


> Essentially I'm torn between the 5800X/5900X/5950X (or i9-10900KF) and I keep going round in circles trying to weigh up price : performance (especially at lower buffer settings where things seem more uncertain).
> 
> It sounds like the 5000 series chips have closed a performance-at-low-buffer-sizes gap on Intels (Jim Roseberry over on thegearpage.net mentions 24 vs 16 buffers respectively and I had a look through the SOS 2020/Scans 2021 DAWbench tests) but I wonder if somehow that would make the 5000 series perform comparatively worse at 32?
> 
> ...


I’m using a 5950x along with a a Quantum and Quantum 2626…. As I track real life drums.👍

Motherboard is a Gigabyte Aorus Master using a Intel Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 card.

Its an amazing build and the 5950x is a legendary cpu.

I’m also a guitar player and can play through plugins with near zero latency at 64mb buffer.

My setup is just left at 64mb and I forget about it.

The AM4 platform is very mature and would not hesitate it recommending it.

Also the 5800X3D is due spring so maybe wait for that …I wouldn’t jump straight onto the AM5 platform right on release…I would wait plus DDR 5 will be expensive for some time yet.


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## mattnedgus (Jan 16, 2022)

Thank you both for your responses!



wayne_rowley said:


> 1. What type of music do you record and produce? This will affect your processor choice. If it's mainly live with some VI then you can get away with a lower spec processor.


I bought a MacBook Air and Quantum 2626 for the low latency, assuming I'd be mostly about the external synths and guitars...



wayne_rowley said:


> 3. Do you need a new system now? if so get what you need. If not, wait. There is always something better coming out in a few months time!


...but then I discovered VI's - and that the Macbook Airs 8GB RAM won't cut it so I'm (somewhat) desperate to buy something now that is open-ended enough that I don't quickly feel limited, whichever path I take.

I don't have an Intel/AMD preference but I would like to stick with the ASUS ProArt Creator series. Right now that restricts me to either the Z490 (Thunderbolt 3, M.2 PCIe 3.0) or the B550 (TB4 and M.2 4.0). There doesn't seem much stock of the X570 and the Z690 needs DDR5.




easyrider said:


> I’m using a 5950x along with a a Quantum and Quantum 2626…. As I track real life drums.👍
> 
> Motherboard is a Gigabyte Aorus Master using a Intel Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 card.
> 
> ...


I've read some of your posts and they've helped sway me towards the 5000 series but I wondered if I could get away with a lower model for the low level I'm likely to be at for some time? I might like to dabble with HWO Opus - or perhaps BBCSO later in the year if I'm flush, but I can't see me being the next Hans Zimmer.



easyrider said:


> Also the 5800X3D is due spring so maybe wait for that …I wouldn’t jump straight onto the AM5 platform right on release…I would wait plus DDR 5 will be expensive for some time yet.


🤔 you're right - I should spec. something up now that will last until the newer systems mature. I'm itching to buy this week so had written off the 5800X3D.


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## timbit2006 (Jan 16, 2022)

mattnedgus said:


> I've read some of your posts and they've helped sway me towards the 5000 series but I wondered if I could get away with a lower model for the low level I'm likely to be at for some time? I might like to dabble with HWO Opus - or perhaps BBCSO later in the year if I'm flush, but I can't see me being the next Hans Zimmer.


Do not be like me and think this is a logical sound idea. I've now bought a 3600 and a 3900XT and I still wish I just got a 5950X. The last thing you want is to be creatively limited by a CPU upgrade that at the time of initial purchase would've only been an extra 2-300 for the top of the line variant. Just wait the extra month or so if its a money issue, you'll thank yourself later.


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## easyrider (Jan 16, 2022)

mattnedgus said:


> Thank you both for your responses!
> 
> 
> I bought a MacBook Air and Quantum 2626 for the low latency, assuming I'd be mostly about the external synths and guitars...
> ...


5800x 👍


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## Trash Panda (Jan 16, 2022)

mattnedgus said:


> Essentially I'm torn between the 5800X/5900X/5950X (or i9-10900KF) and I keep going round in circles trying to weigh up price : performance (especially at lower buffer settings where things seem more uncertain).
> 
> It sounds like the 5000 series chips have closed a performance-at-low-buffer-sizes gap on Intels (Jim Roseberry over on thegearpage.net mentions 24 vs 16 buffers respectively and I had a look through the SOS 2020/Scans 2021 DAWbench tests) but I wonder if somehow that would make the 5000 series perform comparatively worse at 32?
> 
> ...


If you do not make a decision within the next 7 days, Samara will come out of your TV and end you. Hope this helps with the procrastination.


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## thevisi0nary (Jan 16, 2022)

I would buy a 12600k or 5800x DDR4 system and call it a day and get back to making music.

Option 1: 12600k, upgrade to Raptor lake when needed (same socket).

Option 2: 5800x, upgrade to 5950x when needed (same socket).

I doubt with ryzen 5000 series onward that it really matters, but if I was prioritizing low buffer stability over theoretical track count I would probably go with intel. Also thunderbolt stability is less mental gymnastics with intel if you use it. Don't buy Comet lake, that is a dead end upgrade path.

Pick one of these and drop in a higher core count cpu when you need it. They are already more than what you need.


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## 3CPU (Jan 16, 2022)

mattnedgus said:


> Essentially I'm torn between the 5800X/5900X/5950X (or i9-10900KF) and I keep going round in circles trying to weigh up price : performance (especially at lower buffer settings where things seem more uncertain).
> 
> It sounds like the 5000 series chips have closed a performance-at-low-buffer-sizes gap on Intels (Jim Roseberry over on thegearpage.net mentions 24 vs 16 buffers respectively and I had a look through the SOS 2020/Scans 2021 DAWbench tests) but I wonder if somehow that would make the 5000 series perform comparatively worse at 32?
> 
> ...


Ryzen 5000 series is certainly a challenge for Intel. Either is fine but my preference is Intel, consider their integrated GPU is a backup and hold-over until prices come down on dedicated GPU for anyone who also engages in 3D rendering and video editing. With AMD 5900X for example, you must also get a GPU. 

The new Ryzen 3D V-Cache is currently limited to just the one 5800X3D, it has specific manufacturing process, seems like an AMD beta but nonetheless demand will be high -- if current supply chain woes continue it could be hard to get and probably more expensive compared to Intel. 

You have the MBAir, M1 8-core, 8GB is great for portable recordings (live band), but not enough for more complex situations such as VI music production, mockups. Technology advanced at a rapid pace, Apple achieved greatness with the release of the 10-core Pro/Max laptops, and if rumors are true there could be new desktop SoC's with further boosts in performance and,

.... there could also be a new Mac Mini 10-core Pro/Max by March-April 2022, if that happens? Trade-in the Air and breath new life with a 10-core, 32GB or 64GB monster of a DAW setup (Mac Mini M1 10-core Pro), and for anyone also engaging in video editing? Awesome! The M1 Pro/Max is the ideal choice.


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## Pictus (Jan 16, 2022)

mattnedgus said:


> 🤔 you're right - I should spec. something up now that will last until the newer systems mature. I'm itching to buy this week so had written off the 5800X3D.



To buy a ProArt Z690-Creator you have to wait a bit more...
This week you can build something +- like this: (Made today with available parts in USA)


https://pcpartpicker.com/list/vwBkvf




- CPU AMD Ryzen 7 5800X


- CPU cooler be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4
Without any BIOS custom fan curve customization(limit the fan max RPM), the 
Dark Rock Pro 4 is the best option for lower noise and works very well for the 5800X.





- Motherboard Asus ProArt B550-CREATOR 


- RAM Team T-Create Expert (2x32 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18
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- GPU EVGA GeForce GT 1030 2 GB fanless, for audio workloads is enough and some tweaks at





Nvidia Driver, no latency anymore?


Hi all! We all know that AMD drivers have from far, less latency than Nvidia drivers, and for that reason we all recommand an AMD graphic card for audio working. But recently i have dealt with a new install on a PC with an Nvidia graphic card. And when i updated to the latest driver i saw an...




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## 3CPU (Jan 16, 2022)

Now is not a good time for a new PC build, a decent GPU and DDR5 will cost an arm and leg! DDR4 is on the way out. 

EVGA 1030 GPU is crud, may as well get the 12700K and its internal graphics.

i9-12900K is a fiery beast! Intel's excuse to claim the fastest gamer prize. This build will require more expensive components, beefier motherboard and large cpu cooling setup.

AMD 5800X, nah! The 12600K is better, you won't need a dedicated GPU.

Your current setup is adequate for what you want to do,



mattnedgus said:


> I'm not ready for big productions with lots of tracks





mattnedgus said:


> I bought a MacBook Air and Quantum 2626 for the low latency, assuming I'd be mostly about the external synths and guitars


Save your money! I think you have compatibility issues that can be resolved. 

I wish you the very best.


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## mattnedgus (Jan 18, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> Do not be like me and think this is a logical sound idea.


I think this is my thinking and what holds me in limbo too - I don't want to risk over-buying but ironically won't know if I've under/over-bought until I buy something 😂



thevisi0nary said:


> I would buy a 12600k or 5800x DDR4 system and call it a day and get back to making music.


Thank you! I think it's going to end up as AMD with the only ASUS Proart Intel options available are so old or so new.



3CPU said:


> Your current setup is adequate for what you want to do,


I truly wish it was - as nice as it is the MB Air M1 is, it isn't one I'd recommend to anyone wanting to get into this. In addition to the lack of RAM and hard disk space, once the battery is fully charged it has ground looping issues I can't solve by plugging the power adapter into the USB hub (that takes up the 2nd Thunderbolt socket).



Pictus said:


> - CPU cooler be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4


Thank you for your suggestions. They're very simililar to what I've shortlisted, but I do have a Noctua U12A selected at the moment, I think because of it's size and higher max RPM 🤔🤷‍♂️



Pictus said:


> - RAM Team T-Create Expert (2x32 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18


With the same latency (10ns I think) between 3200 CL16 and 3600 CL18 RAM - would I see a benefit with the faster speed?


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## 3CPU (Jan 18, 2022)

mattnedgus said:


> once the battery is fully charged it has ground looping issues I can't solve by plugging the power adapter into the USB hub (that takes up the 2nd Thunderbolt socket).


Power Adapter Extension Cable: Use it with MagSafe and MagSafe 2 power adapters. Link, the MBAir M1 lacks the features of MBP M1 10-core.

I did say earlier,



3CPU said:


> but not enough for more complex situations such as VI music production, mockups


*How much memory did you get in the MBAir M1 8-core?*
The M1 10-core is better and supports more memory, but your Quantum 2626 may be the issue, it will require further steps, contact Presonus support.



mattnedgus said:


> I do have a Noctua U12A selected at the moment


That's cooler is fine for the i7-12700K or i5-12600K, or if you wish to go down the AMD route with the 5800X, but will require a GPU and care with install, see link Pictus provided. And go with the ProArt B550 Creator motherboard, that should pair well with your Quantum 2626 -- be sure to turn on the Quantum before booting the PC.

I am trying to help you and wish you the very best.

.


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## Pictus (Jan 18, 2022)

mattnedgus said:


> With the same latency (10ns I think) between 3200 CL16 and 3600 CL18 RAM - would I see a benefit with the faster speed?


My reference is





Ryzen Memory testing for audio, does it make an impact?







www.scanproaudio.info


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## mattnedgus (Jan 18, 2022)

Pictus said:


> My reference is
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you, much appreciated! I read the article and watched the second half of the video you sent previously on RAM but I'm struggling to find any of the recommended 3600 kits here in the UK for a reasonable price. I'll probably have to go with either https://www.overclockers.co.uk/crucial-ballistix-64gb-2x32gb-ddr4-pc4-25600c16-3200mhz-dual-channel-kit-my-20p-cr.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA55mPBhBOEiwANmzoQoDQcjreZfE72PlM1dTOZjU6gP2OkuldsRQbmY2W7flmws28i9oGGhoCIBcQAvD_BwE (Crucial Ballistix 64GB (2 x 32GB) kit 3200 C16) or https://www.amazon.co.uk/CORSAIR-VENGEANCE-PC4-25600-Desktop-Memory/dp/B07Y4ZZ7LQ/ref=sr_1_3?crid=32DLHSSRYP8HP&keywords=CMK64GX4M2E3200C16&qid=1642541664&sprefix=cmk64gx4m2e3200c16%2Caps%2C41&sr=8-3&th=1 (Corsair Vengeance LPX)https://www.overclockers.co.uk/crucial-ballistix-64gb-2x32gb-ddr4-pc4-25600c16-3200mhz-dual-channel-kit-my-20p-cr.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA55mPBhBOEiwANmzoQoDQcjreZfE72PlM1dTOZjU6gP2OkuldsRQbmY2W7flmws28i9oGGhoCIBcQAvD_BwE (64GB (2 x 32GB) kit) 3200 C16 (which is also on the QVL).


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## mattnedgus (Jan 18, 2022)

3CPU said:


> I did say earlier,


Ah yeah, sorry - what I was trying to say was that my current setup isn't working for me for more reasons than I'd maybe explained clearly.



3CPU said:


> *How much memory did you get in the MBAir M1 8-core?*
> The M1 10-core is better and supports more memory, but your Quantum 2626 may be the issue, it will require further steps, contact Presonus support.


8GB. I bought it before I discovered VI's that take up 3.5-5GB for just one patch!

🤔 I think the Quantum 2626 is OK. I'll see how it performs once I'm running a PC with enough RAM, USB's and a good ground.


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## Pictus (Jan 18, 2022)

mattnedgus said:


> Thank you, much appreciated! I read the article and watched the second half of the video you sent previously on RAM but I'm struggling to find any of the recommended 3600 kits here in the UK for a reasonable price. I'll probably have to go with either https://www.overclockers.co.uk/crucial-ballistix-64gb-2x32gb-ddr4-pc4-25600c16-3200mhz-dual-channel-kit-my-20p-cr.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA55mPBhBOEiwANmzoQoDQcjreZfE72PlM1dTOZjU6gP2OkuldsRQbmY2W7flmws28i9oGGhoCIBcQAvD_BwE (Crucial Ballistix 64GB (2 x 32GB) kit 3200 C16) or https://www.amazon.co.uk/CORSAIR-VENGEANCE-PC4-25600-Desktop-Memory/dp/B07Y4ZZ7LQ/ref=sr_1_3?crid=32DLHSSRYP8HP&keywords=CMK64GX4M2E3200C16&qid=1642541664&sprefix=cmk64gx4m2e3200c16%2Caps%2C41&sr=8-3&th=1 (Corsair Vengeance LPX)https://www.overclockers.co.uk/crucial-ballistix-64gb-2x32gb-ddr4-pc4-25600c16-3200mhz-dual-channel-kit-my-20p-cr.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA55mPBhBOEiwANmzoQoDQcjreZfE72PlM1dTOZjU6gP2OkuldsRQbmY2W7flmws28i9oGGhoCIBcQAvD_BwE (64GB (2 x 32GB) kit) 3200 C16 (which is also on the QVL).


You are welcome.
Crucial is the RAM I like most, I overclock my Crucial 2x16 3200 to 3733MHz.













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## jamieboo (Jan 18, 2022)

Hi Pictus
I notice you're recommending, and indeed using, Crucial 3200, but I'm sure I recall you recommending (in some earlier Ryzen thread) Crucial Ballistix 3600. Would that not be better?


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## Pictus (Jan 18, 2022)

jamieboo said:


> Hi Pictus
> I notice you're recommending, and indeed using, Crucial 3200, but I'm sure I recall you recommending (in some earlier Ryzen thread) Crucial Ballistix 3600. Would that not be better?


Hi,
If you can find, yes.


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## jamieboo (Jan 18, 2022)

Oh! Yes, it seems to have vanished! Is it likely to reappear? I thought that RAM had somehow avoided the silicon shortage issues that plagues other tech areas.


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## Pictus (Jan 18, 2022)

jamieboo said:


> Oh! Yes, it seems to have vanished! Is it likely to reappear?



My guess is good as yours...
You can ask Crucial, they are active in:



https://twitter.com/CrucialMemory











Crucial Memory


Wake up your sleepy computer with a Crucial RAM and SSD upgrade! 3475 E Commercial Ct, Meridian, ID 83642




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## GtrString (Jan 18, 2022)

Get a MAC, problem solved.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jan 22, 2022)

3CPU said:


> Now is not a good time for a new PC build, a decent GPU and DDR5 will cost an arm and leg! DDR4 is on the way out.
> 
> EVGA 1030 GPU is crud, may as well get the 12700K and its internal graphics.
> 
> ...


I'm still using my 970GTX and it works great. Sure, I'd like a 3060, but I'm not going to spend $600+ for a new video card when I rarely game anymore and don't need it to encode video more quickly.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jan 22, 2022)

GtrString said:


> Get a MAC, problem solved.


At least until a year or two go by and Apple makes another change that causes all sorts of problems. So... yeah, go for that. Macs have plenty of their own problems.


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## 3CPU (Jan 22, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I'm still using my 970GTX and it works great. Sure, I'd like a 3060, but I'm not going to spend $600+ for a new video card when I rarely game anymore and don't need it to encode video more quickly.


Like I said, now is not a good time! The GTX 970 cost $699, get a Mac Mini M1 for that price, not that I recommend it for massive orchestral mock ups, but fine for moderate DAW use.

And currently the https://www.amazon.com/Graphics-Axial-tech-2-7-Slot-DisplayPort-Mytrix_HDMI/dp/B09Q6J9BD9/ (RTX 3060 cost is around $800 to $1200).... not that I recommend these cards! Whoa, up to $1200 for a 3060, sorry man that is ridiculously expensive! These are troubling times, I hope prices come down but for now, now is not the time. What Pictus suggested earlier is about as good as it will get for OP intended use.
.


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## mattnedgus (Jan 23, 2022)

So, I finished putting the parts together today (green = new, orange = re-used):

_Motherboard: ASUS Proart B550-Creator_
_Processor: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
Processor Cooler: Noctua U12A
SSD: Samsung 980 Pro M.2 4.0 (for sample libraries - apps run off SATA SSD)_

_GPU: MSI NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 TI GAMING X
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB kit (2x8GB) 2400
CPU: Corsair RM850x_
_Case: Fractal Design R5_

Library load times are the fastest I've seen across 5 computers I've recently measured them on.

But I think the RAM is holding it back a lot (I hope! 🤦‍♂️😂). I can't get stable audio at a 64 block size, even dropping it down to 48kHz. 128 at 48kHz is a bit so so.

I'm thinking about getting a 32GB RAM kit instead of 64 to see if I can't get hold of some better stuff 🤔


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## thevisi0nary (Jan 23, 2022)

mattnedgus said:


> So, I finished putting the parts together today (green = new, orange = re-used):
> 
> _Motherboard: ASUS Proart B550-Creator_
> _Processor: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
> ...


You want 3200mhz-3600mhz for low buffer stability on Ryzen.


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## mattnedgus (Jan 23, 2022)

Are there are any settings on these AMD boards @Pictus @easyrider to improve the audio performance?

I'll sit and have a look through the BIOS when I get a bit more time.


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## mattnedgus (Jan 23, 2022)

thevisi0nary said:


> You want 3200mhz-3600mhz for low buffer stability on Ryzen.


Thank you, I'm definitely hoping/expecting that's all it is.


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## Pictus (Jan 23, 2022)

mattnedgus said:


> Are there are any settings on these AMD boards @Pictus @easyrider to improve the audio performance?
> 
> I'll sit and have a look through the BIOS when I get a bit more time.


Check here and you can try to overclock the RAM, but keep:

VSOC = 1.1V
CLDO VDDP = 0.900V
VDDG CCD = AUTO
VDDG IOD = AUTO


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