# Post Spitfire Audio



## Redsa (Oct 28, 2020)

With some talk about how Spitfire seem to be getting a little stale (?) with their libraries, I wonder who (if anyone?) people think could go on to take over their mantle as the premier sample developer in the next 5-10 years.

Not so much thinking about the other big guys that already exist - Orchestral Tools, Cinesamples etc but much newer companies. Can we see any developers that could 'level up' the game like Spitfire did and become such a huge entity in the industry?


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2020)

Cinesamples Strings are noisy Garbage....I’ve not been disappointed with a SF product I’ve purchased yet...

This thread reeks of click bait too...


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## GNP (Oct 28, 2020)

Constantly "Levelling up" is like Icarus constantly flying too close to the sun.

No need to "level up" or "re-invent the wheel" all the time.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 28, 2020)

Redsa said:


> their mantle as the premier sample developer



I didn't realize they apparently were in this position.


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## Uiroo (Oct 28, 2020)

Well, the Cinematic Studio Series guys are about to release the woodwinds (so I've heard) and will probably do percussion after that. If those turn out as good as CSS and CSB they I think they can become one of the big guys.


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## Redsa (Oct 28, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Cinesamples Strings are noisy Garbage....I’ve not been disappointed with a SF product I’ve purchased yet...
> 
> This thread reeks of click bait too...



Yeah, I'm not a massive fan of cinesamples - some of their stuff is good though. Particularly some of the character libraries.

In terms of the new breed though, I think that AudioOllie have the potential to take things further, seem to have new ideas regarding both the sampling process and the programming side of it, something about them that I could imagine growing into something pretty big. Maybe Performance Samples? They definitely have the forward thinking approach to sampling and the ability to execute it, would be more a case of upping the design and user experience side of things I imagine.


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## ism (Oct 28, 2020)

Spitfire makes 7 of the 10 most innovative libraries I’ve bought in the last 2 or 3 years. (And maybe 3 out of 5 ‘bread and butter’ libs - but rememer of course that SSO‘s great innovation at the time was in it’s qualities of sonority, which is now a ‘bread and butter’ feature)


OT, Embertone, and Ben’s string libraries make of the other 30%. And I don‘t think there’s any doubt that OT (ie Time Macro) and Ben are both taking inspiration from Spitfire.

I don’t think this is a zero sum game. 3 years ago I never would have imagined that there would be such riches of innovation in sample libraires on the horizon.


Looking forward to more libraries from everyone. I think OT have also done amazing things recently, and I don’t see any reason to expect that to change.


I also think that Fluffy Audio have knocked it out of the park with Venice Strings and Dominus. So looking forward to more of that. There‘s something really new and exciting (artistically and technically) going on with them.

But I also think that SF have really honed their capacity to record and capture a sound in BBCSO and not AR. This mightn’t sound as innovative as OT’s new Star Trek library. But I think that the ability to capture the sound ... and that quality of (for lack of a better word) coherence ... is a major innovation. Even if it’s only a quite evolution of things like micing techniques and sign mixing (ie. the bleed mics, and whatever else goes into this).


And Ben’s new library is breathtaking - and it has legatos! I’d love to see him established as a major player in the sample world.


Jasper’s Performance Samples libraries are also amazing, though extremely niche. Perhaps if he could bring the sum of his innovatinos together with a well resoured company (Strezov? Spitfire?) they could really release something that steps out of the niche articulations.

Strezov deserves mentino here too. Afflatus, although I could complain that it’s priced for exclusivity, has some wonderful innovatino in it also that suggests no shortage of ideas going forward.

I have a lot of love for the innovation in Light and Sound Chamber strings also. And I really hope that the techniques they’re pioneering in this library say something of the future of sampling.


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## zolhof (Oct 28, 2020)

Redsa said:


> I'm not a massive fan of cinesamples - some of their stuff is good though.



Cinebrass is like Hollywood Brass, old but gold. Hard to beat the MGM stage and those samples will always have a spot at the very top of my template. CinePerc is awesome too.


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2020)

zolhof said:


> Cinebrass is like Hollywood Brass, old but gold. Hard to beat the MGM stage and those samples will always have a spot at the very top of my template. CinePerc is awesome too.



The brass and harp and cine perc are great....the strings for me don’t cut it...


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## DS_Joost (Oct 28, 2020)

Redsa said:


> Can we see any companies that could 'level up' the game like Spitfire did for the next generation of sample instruments?



The last ''level up'' that happened in the sampling world was Hollywood Orchestra. There hasn't been a sample library recording achievement like it ever since (and I doubt there ever will be). The closest Spitfire ever came was with the BBCSO, which they seem to have abandoned already.

I'm putting my money on Hollywood Orchestra OPUS. East West know what they are doing, and they have had (and still have) the time and the budget. They don't just half-arse things and then abandon them.

OPUS is propably not going to be the ''level-up'' that Hollywood Orchestra was. But I do suspect it to become the new standard in orchestral sampling.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 28, 2020)

I prefer the latest VSL Synchron and BBO libraries to anything SF. Also prefer all the Cinematic Studio libs so far. Horses for courses and all that, everyone will have preferences and priorities, but the idea that SF was some kind of sampling gold standard couldn't be farther from the truth.


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## DS_Joost (Oct 28, 2020)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I didn't realize they apparently were in this position.



They never were. They just release the most libraries. Most of them variations (like OP said) on the same theme. It is indeed getting stale.


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2020)

DS_Joost said:


> The last ''level up'' that happened in the sampling world was Hollywood Orchestra. There hasn't been a sample library recording achievement like it ever since (and I doubt there ever will be). The closest Spitfire ever came was with the BBCSO, which they seem to have abandoned already.



SF have already confirmed they haven’t...


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## DS_Joost (Oct 28, 2020)

easyrider said:


> SF have already confirmed they haven’t...



They haven't? Good to know. I was one of those people who finally got convinced Spitfire was finally on the right track, not being reliant on the room tone (finally) and focusing on scripting and completeness of a library. The BBCSO is really good.

They don't exactly have the best track record with ''finishing'' things...


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## Redsa (Oct 28, 2020)

ism said:


> Spitfire makes 7 of the 10 most innovative libraries I’ve bought in the last 2 or 3 years.
> 
> 
> OT, Embertone, and Ben’s string libraries make of the other 30%. And I don‘t think there’s any doubt that OT (ie Time Macro) and Ben are both taking inspiration from Spitfire. (And maybe 3 out of 5 ‘bread and butter’ - but rememer of course that SSO‘s great innovation at the time was in it’s qualities of sonority).
> ...



Thanks for the response. Dont get me wrong, Spitfire do still do some interesting stuff. Maybe I phrased the question a little too much on spitfire being stale rather than on the fun idea of who could come thorugh and be as big as them? It was just that with the complaints of some people saying they are repeating themselves quite a lot, I was using that as context to think about who/if anyone could replace their position in the industry. I guess in the same way SA replaced Eastwest as the big boys in town. 

Some good ideas there in terms of developers and yes! Forgot about Light and Sound - a lot of potential for them to develop into something big. 

I guess as much as the sampling techniques, GUI etc you need to go pretty balls out in terms of product line and marketing to become what Spitire have.


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## ism (Oct 28, 2020)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I prefer the latest VSL Synchron and BBO libraries to anything SF. Also prefer all the Cinematic Studio libs so far. Horses for courses and all that, everyone will have preferences and priorities, but the idea that SF was some kind of sampling gold standard couldn't be farther from the truth.


I agree ... there is no single best in class library. But lots of very different best in class libraries, not least VSL and EW. (though Spitfire, Fluffy, Light and Sound are more to my taste).


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## Redsa (Oct 28, 2020)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I didn't realize they apparently were in this position.


I guess I meant in terms of their brand as much as their sampling prowess. Its interesting to think about who else could evolve into such a big 'thing'.


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## ism (Oct 28, 2020)

Another avenue to watch - Staffpad. When you don’t need realtime playback, it’s actually quite amazing what their sample engine can do. And with remarkably low resources.

Imagine this kind of technology being scaled up to work with the full resources of a modern sample engine with a full DAW (though necessarily with some kind of post VST plugin technology) .


Things like lookahead are impossible for Kontank running off VST. But imaging what could be possible. Staff pad, I’d argue, is our first glimpse of that possible future.


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## Technostica (Oct 28, 2020)

Definitely IK Multimedia.
I can see them upping their hype game or were you referring to actual products?


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## Redsa (Oct 28, 2020)

Technostica said:


> Definitely IK Multimedia.
> I can see them upping their hype game or were you referring to actual products?


I guess both - which is a big part of how SA have become what they are.


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## Ashermusic (Oct 28, 2020)

It’s funny because I own little of their stuff, but if you are talking about innovation, I think Orchestral Tools is probably the one thinking outside the box most. But there are lots of developers turning out quality products. Unsurprisingly, in my view, the more they put out in a concentrated time, the more inconsistent they are.

I think people here make the mistake of seeing this forum as the microcosm of the sample buying world. It isn’t. So _whatever_ conclusions we reach are in line with the Gershwin song, “It Ain’t Necessarily So.”


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## Beans (Oct 28, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> if you are talking about innovation, I think Orchestral Tools is probably the one thinking outside the box most.



What are some of your favorite Orchestral Tools libraries?

I'm fairly new to OT, only having Arks 1 + 2 for a long time. More recently, I've picked up Phoenix Orchestra, JXL Brass, and now Modus. Obviously, I'm a happy customer and have high hopes for SINE.


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## Ashermusic (Oct 28, 2020)

Beans said:


> What are some of your favorite Orchestral Tools libraries?
> 
> I'm fairly new to OT, only having Arks 1 + 2 for a long time. More recently, I've picked up Phoenix Orchestra, JXL Brass, and now Modus. Obviously, I'm a happy customer and have high hopes for SINE.



I have only Ark 1 and the free Layers so I cannot really comment on that. But with their players able to layer extensively, Modus, a la carte instruments, etc also, they seem to be pushing the envelope.


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## Beans (Oct 28, 2020)

> a la carte instruments



Yes, absolutely. Very much this.


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## PuerAzaelis (Oct 28, 2020)

Beans I have Ark 1 thinking about getting Ark 2 - is it duplicative?


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## Beans (Oct 28, 2020)

PuerAzaelis said:


> Beans I have Ark 1 thinking about getting Ark 2 - is it duplicative?



Ark 1 = loud and bombastic. Ark 2 = soft, and I think suitable for texturing. The audio demos do a pretty good job of illustrating the differences. Try having the Ark 1 product page open in one tab, and play a clip. Then, switch to Ark 2 in another tab and play a clip. You'll quickly hear the big differences.

Admittedly, most of my use of the Arks has been with the choirs. Even after buying several others (Strezov, Eric Whitacre), _sometimes _they simply fit better. Otherwise, I've mostly layered with others to get a more rich sound, such as with the brass.

With that said, the Ark-only demos on the OT site are lovely. Someone could potentially make a career with a handful of them, I bet. I don't recall being able to get super dry with them, which may be one bit of caution.


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## babylonwaves (Oct 28, 2020)

Redsa said:


> With some talk about how Spitfire seem to be getting a little stale (?) with their libraries, ie repeating the same process but in a new room with AR1 etc



There are a couple of really good developers out there and they all release a couple fantastic (and not so fantastic libraries) per year. And even if you look at the libraries from one developer addressing e.g. a string section, those libraries are so different that I wouldn't say that it is repeating the same process over and over again. Once I start looking for a library that suits a certain project (or sound) I have in mind, I'm glad that there is choice. And therefore I'm glad that there are the Chamber/Symphonic strings recorded at Air, the Zimmer strings (which sound very different although they're recorded at Air as well) and the newer BBC strings which sound very different again. That's not what I would call stale.


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## Mornats (Oct 28, 2020)

Not that I think Spitfire are stale but every release from Heavyocity grabs my attention. Mosaic Tape ticks all my boxes, I can play with Mosaic Keys indefinitely. The Novo packs have been a winner for me too and I can't wait for the Forzo and Vento packs.


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## Technostica (Oct 28, 2020)

What I find stale is the repetitive posts about how product X isn't for them due to lacking feature Y or that the price is 'wrong' for them.
Almost as stale is those that need to vehemently defend product X or company Z.
Sometimes these threads are like walking into a small room where a dozen people have just farted.

There are productive ways to critique products without ranting but too often what I see here are self centred rants and ramblings of the entitled and sometimes also uninformed.
The signal to noise ratio is often rubbish.


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## Beans (Oct 28, 2020)

Of the smaller developers out there, which might next become Spitfire Audio big? Perhaps no one.

Maybe someone not in this space or tangential to it could hit us with a big library, like how Apple was suddenly, "Oh, your old phones? Those are garbage." It can take deep pockets to catch up, and this is a relatively niche market.


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## Casiquire (Oct 28, 2020)

ism said:


> Another avenue to watch - Staffpad. When you don’t need realtime playback, it’s actually quite amazing what their sample engine can do. And with remarkably low resources.
> 
> Imagine this kind of technology being scaled up to work with the full resources of a modern sample engine with a full DAW (though necessarily with some kind of post VST plugin technology) .
> 
> ...


For sure. I always thought this was the way of the future but still a ways off, and libraries would need to be recorded a little differently to make better use of it: for example more recorded crescendos and swells, or fully recording multiple notes in a row versus just one note at a time in current legato sampling, etc to cover some common ground in a very authentic way. There's so much that can happen here


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## JohnG (Oct 28, 2020)

What a goofy thread.

So many companies still innovating, including Spitfire. If you think recording in a different space with different players and different mics is unimportant, maybe reconsider?

If you're skeptical, listen very carefully, through headphones, to some recent score you really admire. Whether it's John Powell or JNH or HZ, you may be surprised at just what a variety of string articulations you can hear, just to take that section alone. Some solo, some dry, some very distant.

Or check out Mr. Powell's "How to Train Your Dragon" score. In a few pages, you can see sometime a dozen different sonic ideas, each predicated on a different bowing or other articulation.

*Happy Days*

I adore the riches we now have available. Sometimes in a single cue I find myself using four or five different Spitfire string libraries, EW Hollywood Strings, Strezov Afflatus, and 8dio Cage strings.

And the cost? Less than one semester at a private university can load the boat with many or all these libraries, with money left over for a computer or two.

I use the Spitfire niche libraries constantly, but ditto the other companies too. I love the weird ones but the variety of "plain" ones is so valuable as well.

We are lucky.


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## VSriHarsha (Oct 28, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Cinesamples Strings are noisy Garbage....
> 
> This thread reeks of click bait too...



Seriously?

You don’t own any, from Cinesamples? I am telling you Spitfire’s good at some things & could do better at some things. Every damn library out there has its own flaws. Nothing is perfect. Cinesamples is the best of many, better than the Spitfires. Cinesamples got the a True Hollywood sound. I am telling you not one, not really one library can come close to that exact perfect sound. Sure some of the Spitfires got that fire. I would say EastWest got it too. OT too. I guess, at this point what really matters, for a producer is just damn simple accuracy. One would go with what matches his listening preferences.


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## jaketanner (Oct 28, 2020)

Redsa said:


> With some talk about how Spitfire seem to be getting a little stale (?) with their libraries, ie repeating the same process but in a new room with AR1 etc, I wonder who (if anyone?) people think could go on to take over their mantle as the premier sample developer in the next 5-10 years.
> 
> Not so much thinking about the other big guys that already exist - Orchestral Tools, Cinesamples etc but much newer companies. Can we see any developers that could 'level up' the game like Spitfire did and become such a huge entity in the industry?


Performance Samples and probably Audio Ollie are the two to beat in terms of performance/sound and playability. The genius behind the scripting and recording is far advanced I feel and it's also what pisses me off about the bigger developers...like SFA...the techniques and know-how is out there to produce a killer library...and yet the big boys can't seem to touch the magic that Jasper has created or even Alex with CSS...another small developer that is here to stay.

Last thing I'll say...the smaller developers I mentioned here may not have the budget or means of recording in famed spaces...BUT, they don't need to...Not one person I know has ever complained that the room Con Moto strings were recorded was bad, or Caspian brass...which sounds awesome and wish it had more articulations.


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## Mike Fox (Oct 28, 2020)

Redsa said:


> With some talk about how Spitfire seem to be getting a little stale (?) with their libraries, ie repeating the same process but in a new room with AR1 etc, I wonder who (if anyone?) people think could go on to take over their mantle as the premier sample developer in the next 5-10 years.
> 
> Not so much thinking about the other big guys that already exist - Orchestral Tools, Cinesamples etc but much newer companies. Can we see any developers that could 'level up' the game like Spitfire did and become such a huge entity in the industry?



Spitfire is a huge entity because of their marketing and name dropping (Lyndhurst, BBC, Hans Zimmer, etc). It gives the illusion that their samples are the best in the industry.

They also have a ton of products, so they attract a lot of different composers.

And while I do think SA has some products that are in a league of their own (the EVOs, for example), there are several other developers that are just as good, if not better, especially when it comes to programming, playability, and innovation:

Heavyocity, Strezov Sampling, ProjectSAM, Audio Imperia, Performance Samples, Musical Sampling etc., etc.

Seriously, it's a long list of developers that are doing things that make SA seem archaic in a lot of regards, but their bow on top just isn't as flashy.


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## Loïc D (Oct 28, 2020)

Aaron Venture has a very innovative approach (sample+convolution).
I’m really looking forward to hearing Infinite String, after the tremendous result on Brass & Woodwinds.


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## Al Maurice (Oct 28, 2020)

The one thing the established developers provide is choice. You're certain if you have a project that needs a particular sound or another, they're likely to have it. 

Each library usually provides a particular function best, and it's a shame that sometimes instead of looking at them from an objective point of view, a subjective opinion is given instead or there's some other library that X is compared to.


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## Eric G (Oct 28, 2020)

Technostica said:


> What I find stale is the repetitive posts about how product X isn't for them due to lacking feature Y or that the price is 'wrong' for them.
> Almost as stale is those that need to vehemently defend product X or company Z.
> Sometimes these threads are like walking into a small room where a dozen people have just farted.
> 
> ...



I was rolling down the thread seeing all the usual repetitive posts etc...but something was off, odd.... missing and then BOOM!

There was your post complaining about everyone's posts. This thread is now an official VI thread.


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## ennbr (Oct 28, 2020)

One company that seems to be always left out of the conversation is AudioImperia who have some really nice tools


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## Noeticus (Oct 28, 2020)

I have much love for Spitfire Audio...


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## Mike Fox (Oct 28, 2020)

ennbr said:


> One company that seems to be always left out to the conversation is AudioImperia who have some really nice tools


I think AI has an incredibly promising future. Their GUI design/functionality is genius.


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> Seriously?
> 
> You don’t own any, from Cinesamples? I am telling you Spitfire’s good at some things & could do better at some things. Every damn library out there has its own flaws. Nothing is perfect. Cinesamples is the best of many, better than the Spitfires. Cinesamples got the a True Hollywood sound. I am telling you not one, not really one library can come close to that exact perfect sound. Sure some of the Spitfires got that fire. I would say EastWest got it too. OT too. I guess, at this point what really matters, for a producer is just damn simple accuracy. One would go with what matches his listening preferences.



Yep,

I bought the NI Cinesamples composers toolkit....The strings are noisy...Be careful though...once you hear it you can’t unhear it...


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## Beans (Oct 28, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> I think AI has an incredibly promising future. Their GUI design/functionality is genius.



I don't have Nucleus. I don't need Nucleus. But having Jaeger makes me want Nucleus, because it has some amazing high points and I want to support the developer.


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## ridgero (Oct 28, 2020)

Spitfire produces alot of gems. Many of their non flagship products are absolutely superior. BHCT, Orchestral Swarm, Olafur Chamber Evolutions etc...

The less marketing they do, the more the products suit me.


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## Rtomproductions (Oct 28, 2020)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I didn't realize they apparently were in this position.



Lol me neither. Some of their stuff is great. Alot of it isn't. Just like everyone else.


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## Mike Fox (Oct 28, 2020)

ridgero said:


> Spitfire produces alot of gems. Many of their non flagship products are absolutely superior. BHCT, Orchestral Swarm, Olafur Chamber Evolutions etc...


That's been Spitfire's biggest appeal for me. I have a ton of their libraries, but I only use about 10% of each one. That 10% is where the goods are.


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## purple (Oct 28, 2020)

I think they are just "Big" because they release a lot. Nobody else is announcing something new every 2 weeks on youtube. From what I've seen, it seems the quality suffers a bit because a lot of the walkthroughs I see and reviews from people show that there are lots of bugs and bad scripting and so on. It's the main reason I haven't bought anything from them. It's a shame because they record things really well. I wish they'd slow down and focus on a really good deep-sampled orchestra, especially now that AR is working with them. Sad to see another ensemble "sketching" library...


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## Alex Fraser (Oct 28, 2020)

purple said:


> I wish they'd slow down and focus on a really good deep-sampled orchestra, especially now that AR is working with them. Sad to see another ensemble "sketching" library...


They are, the so called modular orchestra being recorded at AR.

Thread is a little weird. I’ll echo Johns comments really. Compared with where we’ve come from, the current crop of tools are bats**t amazing. Post Spitfire? Hard to see any changes for the next half decade. Sewing up Abbey Road was a ballsy move.


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## VSriHarsha (Oct 28, 2020)

easyrider said:


> once you hear it you can’t unhear it...


Lol!


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## dzilizzi (Oct 28, 2020)

I'm still waiting on Sonokinetic's Strings. I love their sound and regularly use the WW ensembles. The only thing wrong with them is they only have flute, oboe, clarinet and bassoon. If you want more, you have to get it elsewhere. I wouldn't mind if they made a standard orchestral library to go with the phrase libraries. Though the room they use seems to blend pretty well with most of the soundstage libraries. 

The problem is, Spitfire has grown enough they have to keep coming out with new libraries to pay the bills. Most other developers don't have more than a few people doing the work. And if they work in the industry, they have to make libraries between other commitments. 8Dio is one that surprises me on how many libraries they come out with because they are not a big organization, yet they may release more libraries than Spitfire.


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## ProfoundSilence (Oct 29, 2020)

wasnt going to read the whole thread but if someone slipped from minor leagues to the major leagues- I think audio imperia would be the most likely player, but ISW/redroom is something to keep an eye on as well


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## Vik (Oct 29, 2020)

My feeling is that SF, on purpose, don't make their libraries very different from each other – so that the UI will become a selling point for someone who already have one of their libraries. Personally, I'd prefer if a company with all the capacity that SF has rather would go further into make each of their libraries totally brilliant instead of focusing as much as they do on release a lot of libraries, but that's probably just me. The fact that SF and some others are putting a lot of energy into making their own players instead of relying on Kontakt shows the kind of innovation they are focusing on – which probably is something we'll see more consequences of in the future, eg. when their planned, detailed Abbey Road library will be released. And, talking of details – there's so much real players can do that aren't covered in virtual instruments yet, that in not too many years, we'll also see 2020 as a period where samples libraries were in their early development.

Here's something I wrote some years ago, containing suggestions for 8dio and others for future libraries, and I'm glad to see that several companies are moving in a direction I like. 5-10 years from now we'll probably see a lot of stuff we haven't even been thinking of yet, and the future winners in this game are those who have the courage and resources to start doing something which will take a long time to develop, but when done, ends up as libraries many others will try to copy (or at least will be inspired by) in the future. SF could be one of those who already plan something groundbreaking.


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## Sean J (Oct 29, 2020)

The next gen of greatest tools will come out of garages, made by people who tried the last gen of greatest tools and start to find a new direction. Itzhak Perlman on his Stradivarius in the Taj is fine, but sometimes you see crazy steps forward from obscure libraries.

If you're looking for premier, you may not find it for that reason.


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## tjr (Oct 29, 2020)

Sean J said:


> Itzhak Perlman on his strat in the Taj is fine



Fine? That would be totally awesome. I didn't even know he played guitar.


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## Andrew Aversa (Oct 29, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> wasnt going to read the whole thread but if someone slipped from minor leagues to the major leagues- I think audio imperia would be the most likely player, but ISW/redroom is something to keep an eye on as well





All I can say is, something truly incredible (and orchestral) is coming from us in 2021. Jaws will hit the floor.


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## ProfoundSilence (Oct 29, 2020)

zircon_st said:


> All I can say is, something truly incredible (and orchestral) is coming from us in 2021. Jaws will hit the floor.


I'll duct tape my jaw on ahead of time in preparation


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## Sunny Schramm (Oct 29, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> Their GUI design/functionality is genius.



"was" genius


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## Mike Fox (Oct 29, 2020)

Sunny Schramm said:


> "was" genius


ok?


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## dzilizzi (Oct 29, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> ok?


They changed the GUI recently on a number of their libraries.


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## Michel Simons (Oct 29, 2020)

zircon_st said:


> Jaws will hit the floor.



A movie themed library then?


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## Alex Niedt (Oct 29, 2020)

ism said:


> And I don‘t think there’s any doubt that OT (ie Time Macro) and Ben are both taking inspiration from Spitfire.


In spending time with the OT guys (and Spitfire to an extent), I found this really doesn't seem to be the case. When I mention certain libraries from other developers, they often aren't even aware of them because they're constantly so busy developing their own stuff. But there's bound to be overlap between companies because there are only so many articulations to sample.


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## Mike Fox (Oct 29, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> They changed the GUI recently on a number of their libraries.


Yep. Their new design is where it's at.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 29, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> Yep. Their new design is where it's s at.


I kind of liked the colors. Especially on the Library tab - makes it stick out more and be easier to find.


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## Mike Fox (Oct 29, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I kind of liked the colors. Especially on the Library tab - makes it stick out more and be easier to find.


I can definitely understand the library tab thing, but i think it makes sense to keep the GUI uniform, especially considering how efficient it is.

The consistency also makes it easier to navigate each library.


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## Sean J (Oct 29, 2020)

tjr said:


> Fine? That would be totally awesome. I didn't even know he played guitar.



It's all about how you hold it. There's not much difference between a violin and a guitar anyway. It's all in the mind.


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## CT (Oct 29, 2020)

Ok I will post Spitfire Audio.

Here is Spitfire Audio Guy Paul.






Here's a lot of Spitfire Audio with Spitfire Audio Guy Christian in the middle.






Here is Spitfire Audio Website.






Looking forward to everyone else posting Spitfire Audio.


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## Mornats (Oct 29, 2020)

zircon_st said:


> Jaws will hit the floor.


We're gonna need a bigger boat.


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## jaketanner (Oct 29, 2020)

Alex Niedt said:


> When I mention certain libraries from other developers, they often aren't even aware of them because they're constantly so busy developing their own stuff


THAT is the issue then...that statement alone, if true, is the worst thing any business can do...not know your competition. Knowing your competition is like the number one rule in business...so strange.


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## Studio E (Oct 29, 2020)

Redsa said:


> With some talk about how Spitfire seem to be getting a little stale (?) with their libraries, ie repeating the same process but in a new room with AR1 etc, I wonder who (if anyone?) people think could go on to take over their mantle as the premier sample developer in the next 5-10 years.



It is my personal dream, to become the next big developer. To pour every spare ounce of my soul, after meeting every other scoring deadline, family obligation, life circumstance, into literally dozens and dozens of projects, so that I can then have all my work marginalized by someone on a forum calling my passionate work “stale”. In the meantime, I’ll sit here and wonder who can please innovate me out of this place where I can’t possibly write another note, because the developers have all turned stale on me. Someone said this post is “silly”. I think that person was being nice.


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## Studio E (Oct 29, 2020)

....and as a rebuttal, I seriously wish I could meet Christian and Paul (and the rest of the gang) someday to thank them for the freaking amazing tools they’ve created AND all of the content and opportunities for engagement they’ve provided. Labs, PianoBook, WW scoring contest, tutorials, and my favorite, Christian’s YouTube channel. Seriously amazing shit! I love their libraries from SSO and OA, to the labs and Intimate strings. Those guys’ and gals’ products have helped me out immensely with both inspiration and execution. I’m so sick of the way people spew bullshit in the inter-web. Can you tell? Words matter.


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## re-peat (Oct 29, 2020)

More Spitfire-related news. Sad news. Today, the last Belgian Spitfire fighter pilot, Joseph Moureau, passed away. He was 99 years old. 

Moreau and his twin brother Alfred joined the Royal Air Force in 1940 and, after a long training, qualified for a Spitfire seat. They were part of the 349th Squadron (which consisted mostly of Belgian pilots) and provided air support during D-Day (when Joseph took a Junker Ju88 down).


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## CT (Oct 29, 2020)

Posting some more Spitfire audio.




I've also just posted some things to Spitfire Audio.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 29, 2020)

From the programming and developing new sampling ideas side of things, I think there is someone that has what it takes to be a big developer that will take sampling forward... but I have a feeling he really doesn't want too

Jasper.

Just listen to his solo violin B, its a tiny instrument, very limited, but what it can do is amazing.
I hope he is aware of what he created, cause not SA or OT or 8DIO or VSL or EW can do that.
I really hope that Ollie will manage to execute the project he wanted to with Jasper and Mayerson because it has all the right ingredients and the surroundings that seems Jasper need to get out of his shell

Another developer that has the quality nailed in the highest levels is SonicCouture.
Though they seem to be happy in the place they are at, doing unique projects that I guess interests them before any thought if its a good commercial prospect.
You got to admire that.


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## Alex Niedt (Oct 29, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> THAT is the issue then...that statement alone, if true, is the worst thing any business can do...not know your competition. Knowing your competition is like the number one rule in business...so strange.


This is a slightly extreme reaction to what I said. It's not like they're wholly unaware of what's going on in the sampling world, but they aren't sitting on VI-Control all day looking at all the latest library announcements from every company, because they're busy innovating and creating sample libraries, LOL. People who frequent forums for hours a day seem to forget this, so when they see similarities between libraries, they assume it's because one company copied the other.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 29, 2020)

Alex Niedt said:


> This is a slightly extreme reaction to what I said. It's not like they're wholly unaware of what's going on in the sampling world, but they aren't sitting on VI-Control all day looking at all the latest library announcements from every company, because they're busy innovating and creating sample libraries, LOL. People who frequent forums for hours a day seem to forget this, so when they see similarities between libraries, they assume it's because one company copied the other.


I do think most people who create similar stuff tend to get their inspiration from the same or similar sources. John Williams or Hans Zimmer or some other composer writes a piece for a movie/show and they hear it. It starts a "I like that sound, how can I make/improve it? Then turns into a new library. This is why they tend to come out around the same time also - the inspiration's the same.


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## ism (Oct 29, 2020)

Alex Niedt said:


> In spending time with the OT guys (and Spitfire to an extent), I found this really doesn't seem to be the case. When I mention certain libraries from other developers, they often aren't even aware of them because they're constantly so busy developing their own stuff. But there's bound to be overlap between companies because there are only so many articulations to sample.




Time Macro is very much an OT library in its conception and execution, on all the right ways.

And yet, that said, I find it very, bery hard to imagine a texture library being developed at the time TM was without at least an awareness of the ways other texture libraries had broken new ground, and how people had responded.


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## Alex Fraser (Oct 29, 2020)

Mike T said:


> Ok I will post Spitfire Audio.
> 
> Here is Spitfire Audio Guy Paul.
> 
> ...


Took me a minute there, Mike. Clearly more coffee required. 😅


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## CT (Oct 29, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> Took me a minute there, Mike. Clearly more coffee required. 😅



I was feeling so goofy this afternoon. I hope I didn't cause anyone any forum rage.


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## Michel Simons (Oct 29, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> Took me a minute there, Mike. Clearly more coffee required. 😅



Me too. Until I looked at the thread title.


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## avocado89 (Oct 29, 2020)

My money is on more Avante Garde SL developers like Slate & Ash, Felt Instruments & Ben Osterhouse - although for my own selfish reasons I hope they don't become too big, and that they keep pushing the envelope with their indie finesse! Spitfire Audio's announcements used to make me sit up in my chair and fill me with excitement and anticipation. Libraries like LSO, The Evo Grids, Olafur Arnalds Collabs - to name a few. I think SA is still great, love the labs, and all that they have given us, but their recent offerings have not interested me in the slightest - just not my cup of tea. However, I think for anybody to stand up and say "Spitfire has gone stale" or "they're just rehashing old libraries" is a bit ridiculous. I think as they become a bigger company, they have to diversify, become less "niche" and "left field" and move more to the center to appease the majority. I think that's why we are seeing more libraries from them like BBCSO & Abbey Road One. Hey, but what do I know, I could be wrong and that's okay. The point is they are still a great sample library company, releasing top-shelf products, and as much as their marketing can get annoying, if we are all honest, I think deep down most of us actually kind of like it - it's what makes Spitfire, well, Spitfire.


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## jaketanner (Oct 29, 2020)

Alex Niedt said:


> This is a slightly extreme reaction to what I said. It's not like they're wholly unaware of what's going on in the sampling world, but they aren't sitting on VI-Control all day looking at all the latest library announcements from every company, because they're busy innovating and creating sample libraries, LOL. People who frequent forums for hours a day seem to forget this, so when they see similarities between libraries, they assume it's because one company copied the other.


Ha..ok maybe...but either way, I think all developers should have some idea of what's being talked about on these forums...especially now during COVID where most people are working from home...great time to catch up  I would also assume that a company like SF would have interns at least who go through here...VSL has Ben who is very attentive and responsive.


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## Redsa (Oct 30, 2020)

Studio E said:


> It is my personal dream, to become the next big developer. To pour every spare ounce of my soul, after meeting every other scoring deadline, family obligation, life circumstance, into literally dozens and dozens of projects, so that I can then have all my work marginalized by someone on a forum calling my passionate work “stale”. In the meantime, I’ll sit here and wonder who can please innovate me out of this place where I can’t possibly write another note, because the developers have all turned stale on me. Someone said this post is “silly”. I think that person was being nice.



It’s just a jumping off point for a conversation. 

Most people seem to have just explored the idea of who are a potential ‘next spitfire’, which is cool though. Lots of great thoughts and ideas.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 30, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> THAT is the issue then...that statement alone, if true, is the worst thing any business can do...not know your competition. Knowing your competition is like the number one rule in business...so strange.



I like that. Everybody looking at everyone else, in all walks of life, is what makes this 21st century life such a goddamn boring, hackneyed and frustrating affair.


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## thesteelydane (Oct 30, 2020)

Recording in bunkers is gonna be the next big thing. Of course, I'm inherently biased (but not wrong).


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Oct 30, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> Took me a minute there, Mike. Clearly more coffee required. 😅


Same here! I initially thought "what the..."


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Oct 30, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Ha..ok maybe...but either way, I think all developers should have some idea of what's being talked about on these forums...especially now during COVID where most people are working from home...great time to catch up  I would also assume that a company like SF would have interns at least who go through here...VSL has Ben who is very attentive and responsive.


It's not just about people on these forums - many developers no doubt know a zillion people out in the "real" world/industry, where they can gain a pretty good knowledge of what new products people would like to see.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 30, 2020)

hbjdk said:


> It's not just about people on these forums - many developers no doubt know a zillion people out in the "real" world/industry, where they can gain a pretty good knowledge of what new products people would like to see.


This is what I would do. Or like many of them who work in the industry, I'd be making stuff I could use to make my life easier. I swear that is what 8Dio and Spitfire do. If you use a certain phrase a lot or maybe style would be a better term, it's better if you have it played in all keys sometimes. Especially with strings - i.e. runs and ostinatos. Otherwise it is hard to explain the number of seemingly unrelated libraries they put out. Oh, and 8Dio and Soundiron like to bang on things. Fortunately, I enjoy the sound of odd items they bang on.


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## Johnny (Oct 30, 2020)

I think cats like Performance Samples are on the right track, looking for holes and pushing the level of detail just that little bit further. It goes without saying libraries like Pandora from Project Sam are other huge contenders that are filling the market gaps as well. Will they ever be as big of an entity as SF? The question I ask is do they need to be? I like finding those small restaurants to dine at, places that not a lot of people go, making you feel like they are a hidden secret, that only you know about : ) I kind of prefer the sample industry the way it is, so that when the entire herd turns their ears to BBCSO, the rest of us can enjoy all of lesser known hidden gems within our mixes : )


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Oct 30, 2020)

avocado89 said:


> I think as they become a bigger company, they have to diversify, become less "niche" and "left field" and move more to the center to appease the majority. I think that's why we are seeing more libraries from them like BBCSO & Abbey Road One.


I would expect a company such as Spitfire to operate this way: Make big libraries they expect will sell many copies, then use part of that income for making smaller libraries they also would like to make.

These guys are much too passionate to primarily produce "big selling" libraries, I would think


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## VSriHarsha (Oct 30, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I'm still waiting on Sonokinetic's Strings. I love their sound and regularly use the WW ensembles. The only thing wrong with them is they only have flute, oboe, clarinet and bassoon. If you want more, you have to get it elsewhere. I wouldn't mind if they made a standard orchestral library to go with the phrase libraries. Though the room they use seems to blend pretty well with most of the soundstage libraries.
> 
> The problem is, Spitfire has grown enough they have to keep coming out with new libraries to pay the bills. Most other developers don't have more than a few people doing the work. And if they work in the industry, they have to make libraries between other commitments. 8Dio is one that surprises me on how many libraries they come out with because they are not a big organization, yet they may release more libraries than Spitfire.


I think that makes sense. Also, I was so damn excited about their new Originals Piano but when read about it, yea, I didn’t like it. Well, didn’t want it. Absolutely yes, I liked the demos but that’s just not enough for me.


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## Gerbil (Oct 30, 2020)

Mike T said:


> Posting some more Spitfire audio.



I was invited to visit The Duxford Imperial War Museum here in the UK on Monday and had a good look at their Spitfires. You don't realised just how tiny the cockpits are until you're up close. I'm only 5'11" but I'm pretty sure I couldn't fit in one. Incredible, beautiful machines.


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## GMT (Oct 31, 2020)

As a company releases more products they are going to begin repeating themselves to a certain extent. That can begin to feel as though they are stagnating as they head further down their vision path - smaller increments etc. 

I only own a few Spitfire products and find them similar to many in that parts are great, parts are okay, and other parts not so good. Releasing a lot of products too quickly can end up with patchy results. For example, the BBCSO strings and woodwinds are sublime. I never use the brass and percussion.


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## jazzman7 (May 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I'm still waiting on Sonokinetic's Strings. I love their sound and regularly use the WW ensembles. The only thing wrong with them is they only have flute, oboe, clarinet and bassoon.


Looking at these. With this sale, they'll be pretty inexpensive and I'm impressed with Sono's implementation on their Libs. What do you think as an owner beyond what you've already said?


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## CT (May 10, 2021)

Forgot about this wacky thread. Looking forward to Abbey Road stuff! I will post more Spitfire audio then.


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## doctoremmet (May 11, 2021)

Wait. You’re buying stuff again?


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## Alex Fraser (May 11, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Wait. You’re buying stuff again?


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## dzilizzi (May 11, 2021)

jazzman7 said:


> Looking at these. With this sale, they'll be pretty inexpensive and I'm impressed with Sono's implementation on their Libs. What do you think as an owner beyond what you've already said?


I'm just a hobbyist with more pop/rock background than classical. I like the sound of Sono's winds. They play well, there are a lot of articulations (I have the expanded version), and I like the room sound. Not too wet, not too dry.


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## dzilizzi (May 11, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Wait. You’re buying stuff again?


To be fair, he did say he would break his moratorium on purchases for Abbey Road libraries......


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## doctoremmet (May 11, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> To be fair, he did say he would break his moratorium on purchases for Abbey Road libraries......


I sometimes choose to pretend not having read certain nuances of a post for... reasons hehe


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## jazzman7 (May 11, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I'm just a hobbyist with more pop/rock background than classical. I like the sound of Sono's winds. They play well, there are a lot of articulations (I have the expanded version), and I like the room sound. Not too wet, not too dry.


From the demos, I liked them as well. I'm just a bit concerned not having a "unified" set of woods, but making woods sit together seems less difficult than strings. TBH, I don't really have that much trouble with strings that way...perhaps my undiscerning ear. The collective disinterest around here was a surprise. Pretty attractive price right now. Thanks!


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## dzilizzi (May 11, 2021)

jazzman7 said:


> From the demos, I liked them as well. I'm just a bit concerned not having a "unified" set of woods, but making woods sit together seems less difficult than strings. TBH, I don't really have that much trouble with strings that way...perhaps my undiscerning ear. The collective disinterest around here was a surprise. Pretty attractive price right now. Thanks!


I think the winds are kind of ignored among the phrase libraries.


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## jazzman7 (May 11, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I think the winds are kind of ignored among the phrase libraries.


Comparatively, for sure! Tho Cinematic Studio and Berlin Do get props around here occasionally


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## dzilizzi (May 11, 2021)

jazzman7 said:


> Comparatively, for sure! Tho Cinematic Studio and Berlin Do get props around here occasionally


I just meant that most people don't even realize Sonokinetic makes non-phrase libraries.


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## jazzman7 (May 11, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I just meant that most people don't even realize Sonokinetic makes non-phrase libraries.


It was a shock to me when I first saw it myself! Haha


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## givemenoughrope (May 11, 2021)

I'm sure this isn't the best business decision but I'd like Spitfire to continue to make libraries that in some way fit or can be considered an addition to Chamber Strings/Sable. That's still their crowning achievement to me and many others. Most of my string libraries are purchased and utilized within some proximity to this sound and approach. 

Chamber Strings II! cmon!


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## wsimpson (May 11, 2021)

Whoever posted about Heavyocity cost me hours going down that YouTube rabbit hole of goodness. I need a sale to come up so I can pick me up some of that. Pretty creative stuff they have going on there.


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