# How to check out which licence music or trailer company own a track I did?



## nikolas (Apr 12, 2008)

I would assume again (Gosh... I work in games... :( not movies), that the company that made the movie, published it, or whatever close to that, would also handle WHO did the trailers. like an out of house work of shorts... Finding out who is responsible for Batman Beings (MGM? 20th fox? Universal? etc) might yield a result for this. 

I would also assume that the last thing they want is trouble with copyrights so they will be willing to help and point to the right direction, only to get out of potential trouble.

But again, I'm largely assuming! Wait for the bigger boys for a more in depth reply I reckon.. :S


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## lux (Apr 12, 2008)

Well, someone is supposed to have committed that trailer. You could start from the local distributor for the movie if you know it or at least start from the main company itself and follow the root until you reach the guy/girl who committed it.

At least thats what i would do.


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## David A (Apr 12, 2008)

Someone basically STOLE your music from the Soundsonline website-thats basically what we're talking about here, and its ******* outrageous. Id be taking legal action and putting pressure on the culprits responsible from any and all directions. Get a lawyer involved-join a musician's union-TAKE LEGAL ACTION. This is theft essentially-you DESERVE to be compensated for your work. Its hard enough for composers out there without this happening.

Id also have a look at that company myself just incase some of my material has been pinched behind my back. Id be highly suspicious of EVERYONE involved. Its bloody outrageous-if people think they can get away with things like that, they've got ANOTHER THING COMING!!!


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## David A (Apr 12, 2008)

On soundtrack.net you are listed as the composer for the teaser trailer. Although you recieved NO renumeration, where you informed that your music would be used in the trailer Alex?

This makes me refrain from posting my own music on forums like SOL.


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## Daryl (Apr 12, 2008)

Alex, this could end up as a win win situation for you. As soon as you find out who used your music just send them a bill for £50,000 as a synchronisation fee. They can't really argue against it, as they have broken the law....!

D


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## Reegs (Apr 12, 2008)

Do you by chance have a copy of the trailer? In court (or even just between lawyers), I think having their video with your audio will go a long way to keep the other side from arguing it was a labeling mistake on the web.

That's outrageous though. I hope you can find these guys, Alex!

Reegs


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## Reegs (Apr 12, 2008)

I haven't heard Nuclear Dawn (or can't remember it) but here are some of the Yahoo trailers for the film:

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808490910/trailer


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## Waywyn (Apr 12, 2008)

Hey and thanks a lot for your replies.
The problem with trailer music is that the companies most of the time cut and paste together a lot of tracks - sometimes layer them. Sometimes you really can't say which part of the track they used. Sometimes it is just a fade out of a reverb tail, sometimes just a hit.

... but no matter what they used of the track and as long as my name on the soundtracks.net website isn't a missunderstanding, I definitely try to check that out.

I will of course let you know more if there is anything new.


Thanks!

Alex


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## nomogo (Apr 12, 2008)

Hi Alex,

Check your PM... I do a lot of work with music libraries and I believe I found who did clearance for those trailers in my records... I'll PM you the contact information.


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## Synesthesia (Apr 13, 2008)

Hi Alex,

Once you have worked out how your track ended up in the trailer (if it did!) I wouldn't go in all guns blazing.

The fee for this usage would be good anyway, even if it were licensed properly, so you'll get good money.

You also could turn it into a new and potentially very lucrative income stream for yourself! Its certainly a pretty cool starting off place. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar..

Hope you get it resolved quickly!

You could try asking the other composers who they were approached by for their traks. I remember Veigar from the ASCAP scoring workshop in 99 and hes a great guy.

Cheers,

Paul


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## midphase (Apr 13, 2008)

Since soundtrack.net seems to be so informed about what pieces are used in the trailer, I would ask them how they obtained that information and from whom. My guess is that they spoke directly to the post house who edited the trailer?

Once you know who the post house is "Antfarm, Trailer Park, or who knows who else?" you can contact their music director to verify the information as from whom was the cue licensed.

Try and be courteous and non-confrontational as you approach these people, explain to them that you're just trying to verify the information and try not to alarm them.

Once you locate the music house that licensed to them that particular track, then you should contact them directly and try to figure out what is going on.

I hope that when you composed the demo for EW, you didn't sign a contract giving them control over the music. I know that Nick's bread and butter is doing trailer music and it would be quite a surprise to find out that he's the reason that your cue ended up on the trailer (I'm not saying that he did....but oh the irony). Either way, if you signed anything with EW or QL, you might want to re-read that contract just to be sure.


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## Waywyn (Apr 13, 2008)

Okay, thanks a lot for your replies. Besides the posts I received a few PMs and emails to get this thing solved.

No, I won't go with all guns blazing since this makes no sense. Especially in bizz stuff it is always wrong to get impatient and attacking against people.

I hope this solved quickly. Hell, maybe it is just a missunderstanding and all the excitement was for nothing.

@midphase: I am 100% sure Nick would ask me if he would use something I did.
I don't want to break rules by posting contract stuff here, but the company only uses the demos for promotion and marketing purposes.


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## JohnG (Apr 13, 2008)

I like Wawyn's approach -- it's a chance to start a new relationship. Sure, they owe some money but it could be just an error or some junior person's poor judgment, so there is every chance it will be a jolly resolution with a check and maybe more work.


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## cc64 (Apr 14, 2008)

Brian Ralston @ Sun Apr 13 said:


> Now...if it was an unreleased teaser trailer that leaked out on YouTube or something...I could see that happening unfortunately. Maybe someone found your music somewhere and put it in to the teaser as temp music in private. Then...when the teaser trailer actually got released...they went back in to put in only music they had clearance for. But then some guy at the trailer post facility posted the rough unreleased teaser on YouTube....then your music is out there in some form. That unfortunately I could see happening. It was never approved for or meant for release and leaked out by some dumb employee.



Hi Brian,

As for this part of your post, it is pretty plausible but it would not explain that Alex's name would appear in the credits for the trailer at soundtrack.com...

Best,

cc64


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## Hannes_F (Apr 14, 2008)

... and with a typo so that a simple google search would not find it.

Firstly somebody forgets to inform the composer about the use of the music (and any payment) and secondly somebody writes the name in a way that in fact prevents this to be found for three years, so it is actually much more difficult to find a copy of the teaser trailer and other proof. What a strange coincidence.

Alex, I would try to find out whether somebody cheated deliberately or not. If so, then they will try to play you again, something like "if you are nice this time then maybe we remember you for a futural job". Somebody that cheats once will do it again, and if that were true I would go the hard way.

Just be sure that you never claim something you can not prove, for not giving anybody a reason to complain about you or sue you.


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## Brian Ralston (Apr 14, 2008)

cc64 @ Mon Apr 14 said:


> Hi Brian,
> 
> As for this part of your post, it is pretty plausible but it would not explain that Alex's name would appear in the credits for the trailer at soundtrack.com...
> 
> ...



But that is where I would not take everything listed there as gospel. Especially when they do not ever really state exactly where they get their information for each trailer composer listing they list. It probably comes from a little bit of everywhere. I would not be surprised if some comes from user submissions and if their background checks on the accuracy of their information is not entirely thorough.

Again...the ramifications to Warner Brothers in this case would be great. I would be very surprised if there was music used they did not have clearance for. Which is why I speculate that the soundtrack.net info is not accurate in this case. I know folks who have cut trailers (not the music side...I am talking about the actual editing side.). I have also just gone through a similar 'trailer' process myself for Magnolia Pictures. On bigger films (which Batman Begins would be), they almost always get audio CDs from the studio commissioning the trailer with all of the approved and licensed cues for which they have clearance to use on the trailer and in advertisements. The trailer house can then choose from these pre-selected tracks (and only those tracks) that are given to them. 

Now...indie films and their trailers can be a lot more loose in how these things are done. But, Batman Begins is a pretty big film franchise with a big reputation for Warner Brothers. I don't see any part of the process not going by the book.


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## Brian Ralston (Apr 14, 2008)

Alex,

Is something you wrote in the teaser trailer listed at the following web address?

http://www2.warnerbros.com/batmanbegins/video.html


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## Waywyn (Apr 14, 2008)

Hey all and thanks again for your feedback,

Brian, I checked all the trailers and especially the teaser trailer. The thing is, I don't actually hear a note or a melody of my track, but I know that sometimes:

a: tracks are used just snippetwise. You hear a reverb tail only of the ending and sometimes it sounds as they layer tracks with other tracks.

b: it is also possible that a trailer company purchases a bunch of tracks, but later on they weren't actually used in the actual trailer which they were bought for, but kept back for an upcoming tv trailer or similar stuff.


I just contacted a few people and I will see how the situation comes along.

It might happen that someone listened to my track on the SO forum and downloaded in on accident to the "action folder" of library X 

It might be all a missunderstanding.

It could also be someone who just gave a big f**k about rights, law and honesty and uses my tracks as he wishes too hoping that noone will find out.

Who knows  ... I guess in a few days/weeks/month I know more 


Thanks again for all your help. Even if this is all a big missunderstanding, I am optimistic enough to know that my stuff will be used in a big trailer sooner or later anyway. It is all just a matter of never giving up /\~O


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## midphase (Apr 14, 2008)

Well, please let us know what happens.


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## poseur (Apr 14, 2008)

it could well be that
someone did, indeed, get paid for it;
if EW owns the track, outright:
ie, a "buyout:
they may have negotiated a license-fee for the track.

is this piece published and are you registered as the composer with any Performing Rights Society?
are you the verified owner of the Master and the Rights?

do you have a copy of your original contract with EW?

fwiw, WB will not get in any trouble, at all
since --- typically --- WB
would normally have the trailer house
sign a non-indemnity waiver for the music used.....


d


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## Waywyn (Apr 14, 2008)

Hey poseur,



Waywyn @ Sun Apr 13 said:


> I don't want to break rules by posting contract stuff here, but the company only uses the demos for promotion and marketing purposes.


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## poseur (Apr 14, 2008)

Waywyn @ Mon Apr 14 said:


> Hey poseur,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ah, sorry!
i missed that..... 2.5hrs sleep in the past 48hrs.

meanwhile, make sure that the piece is registered with
one of the int'l PRS's, 
noting where the piece has been "placed".
and, (hopefully) begin
collecting royalties from public performance.....
tv, radio, etc.,
while you sort this out.

best,
d


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## rJames (Apr 14, 2008)

poseur @ Mon Apr 14 said:


> it could well be that
> someone did, indeed, get paid for it;
> if EW owns the track, outright:
> ie, a "buyout:
> ...



I think, in the trailer business, the film company pays for the music. Can't be certain. But as I recall, friends talk about "receiving a check from Sony," that sort of thing.

If someone sold a film company a cue that they did not own, they probably still owe the real owner for the usage. Because you cannot contract for an illegal act. It is non-binding.

The film company would have standing to sue the person posing as the owner. But that would be their remedy.

That's just speculation on my part though from business classes I took a million years ago.

Also, as a general rule, no performance royalties are paid on music used in trailers.

I've been told that, if you knew of the performances, or if they were reported, they should accrue...but it just isn't done.

Waywyn, if you can't hear anything in the teaser trailer that sounds like it came from your cue, it may have been a bad report. I know that it is sometimes hard to hear one hit or crash or whoosh. But generally, you can make it out. Expecially if it is not an Fx cue.

I'm pretty sure (everything I've said in this post is speculation) that Soundtracks.net relies on people giving them accurate information and every bit is not checked.

You may consider yourself lucky that your name is mentioned on the website.

I know people that have cues in trailers for major motion pictures that have never seen their name at that site.


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## poseur (Apr 15, 2008)

[quote:b895f620a1="Synesthesia @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:14 pm"][quote:b895f620a1="poseur @ Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:03 am"][quote:b895f620a1="Waywyn @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:27 pm"]Hey poseur,

[quote:b895f620a1="Waywyn @ Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:41 am"]
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## Waywyn (May 2, 2008)

Hey all,

it turned out to be a complete joke. I am not sure, but it seems that just someone assumed my music might be in the trailer, ... but this isn't the case.

I contacted Warner and they assured me that they never heard or received this track.
Anyway, shit happens ... to be honest I am glad it ended up like this, because going through instances and making a guy out who commited "fraud" might be too time and stress consuming at the moment.

So, I just keep on working. Something might happen sooner or later 


Thanks all for your support, help and comments!!


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