# AcousticSamples Vhorns



## Ctopher (Oct 22, 2021)

New from AcousticSamples:


VHorns Brass Section


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## doctoremmet (Oct 22, 2021)

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/acousticsamples-introduces-vhorns-brass-section.115992/


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## Ctopher (Oct 22, 2021)

Oops, thanks.


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## Ben H (Oct 22, 2021)

This is probably a better place to discuss/critique though than in their announcement thread however.

Especially if people want to compare it with other competing products.


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## ohernie (Oct 22, 2021)

The A-B comparisons were pretty impressive, the ensemble, not so much. I kept thinking maybe they should have applied their Xeroxing technique to a solo'd ensemble track. VHorns II?


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## muziksculp (Oct 22, 2021)

I wonder how the Solo Brass stack up against Sample Modeling's Solo Brass ?


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## Ben H (Oct 22, 2021)

I think it sounds pretty good by comparison. Probably not *quite* as good as Samplemodeling, but certainly getting there.

I mean there are some nit-picky things that could be mentioned, but I don't want to start attacking them right out of the gate.

I don't own them though (athough I do own SM and AM Brass), but it's probably a bit unfair to compare them just from the audio demos only.


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## Werty (Oct 22, 2021)

Holy smokes, I never heard such a good brass like this!


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## SZK-Max (Oct 22, 2021)

With SM Trumpets.


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## FireGS (Oct 22, 2021)

I wish there was an audio demo in some sort of hall/orchestra setting.


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## re-peat (Oct 22, 2021)

Ben H said:


> Probably not *quite* as good as Samplemodeling



Every bit as good as Sample Modelling. The mid and high registers of the trombone are even much better than the Sample Modelling one. Much better. The low register, on the other hand, is alas nothing much to slide home about: no body, no balls, no authority. Pity.

The two trumpets are very good too, at times spectacularly spot on even, although, after spending the better part of the day with them, it seems to me they’re both best served in smaller doses. Any solo exposure of considerable length while also remaining wholly believable is, I think, asking a bit too much from these two. (That said, I also stop believing the amazing SM Trumpet completely if it gets too much focus for too long.) But all in all, the two VTrumpets are really great. And the mutes (which didn’t impress me very much in the demos) are surprisingly good too. Fortunately, the Harmon is not another embarrassing attempt at a Miles Davis-soundalike (which, without exception, I deeply dislike in virtual trumpets). It’s simply a good 'standard' Harmon mute that I think would also work well in orchestral settings.

One other minor thing that might be considered a problem is that both the trumpets and the trombone at their brighest — high velocities combined with a modwheel yanked all the way up — produce a timbre which, I have a feeling, would be outlawed by the World Health Organization, if they knew about it, as being unfit for human consumption. Because it is an extremely piercing and grating sound. Borderline painful. Easy to avoid though, so no big issue.

On the plus side: sen-sa-tio-nal-ly expressive, unbelievably nimble and agile and offering even more control over the important performance details — such as subtle tuning instabilities, intonation precision of the attack, that lovely hint of flutter in the legato transitions which is so characteristic of brass, the nice dynamic vibrato, the brilliantly implemented half-valve effect, … — than the Sample Modelling instruments. Not that I’m anywhere near to discarding the Sample Modelling instruments, far from it, but they'll definitely be seeing considerably less use henceforth than they saw up until today.

The spatialization and mixing possibilities of the VHorns are also much more extensive than what you get with Sample Modelling. Not that you get something of the quality of IrcamSPAT with the VHorns, but you do get something pretty impressive sounding. Although it has to be added that the spatial concept of the software seems more geared towards small and medium-sized groups (in small and medium-sized venues) than towards large-scale orchestral productions. (With the right tools and know-how however, it’s no problem at all to transplant these instruments, very convincingly, in any virtual orchestral context you can think of.)

Oh, yes, the two Flügelhorns. They deserve a few words too. Well, mostly very good (if a touch generic-sounding perhaps) but with the unfortunate exception of the note A3 — or A4, depending on which note-naming standard you follow — in both instruments, where you can hear, especially at lower dynamics, the ‘compositing’ of the various soundwaves that make up the timbre. (A slight oversight on the part of the person(s) who balanced the timbral ingredients, I think. It’s perfectly judged in every other note, but not so in the A3. Easily corrected though, I assume.)

And below C3 (or C4), the notes of the Flügel2 are delivered with what sounds like an insane amount of spit nesting in the tube of the instrument. It’s almost a sort of gurgling sound you get. So much so, that you can only use this register very rarely at higher dynamics, or maybe as a comedy effect.
Still, I would suggest emptying the Flügel2 of its excess of saliva when work on the first update gets underway.

On the whole though: I’m very pleased with this VQuintet. I can imagine they might disappoint those who desire power, punch or massive epic majesty from their brass instruments — the VHorns, it seems to me, were not developed with that idiom in mind — and I fear they’re also not the best choice for ultra-tight, snappy, high-energy Tower-Of-Power-like brass parts or to simulate the brass explosions you frequently hear in, for example, Quincy Jones big band recordings, but barring those situations — and I’ve never heard any of these things done well with virtual brass anyway — there is little I can think of (in the way of music that features brass instruments) where the VHorns can’t make a truly wonderful, totally musical and more-often-than-not quite believable contribution.

_


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## rrichard63 (Oct 22, 2021)

re-peat said:


> I’m very pleased with this VQuintet


Sextet, actually. A quintet consists of five players and instruments. Thank you for the very detailed and helpful review.


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## re-peat (Oct 22, 2021)

Ah yes, of course. Thanks for the correction. (For some reason, I've been ignoring the second trombone all day.)

_


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## re-peat (Oct 22, 2021)

Quick add-on: pleased to report that the second trombone is much less testicularly challenged than the first one. Nice beefy timbre across the range. Apart from the note G#1 which also needs another look at as it doesn't sound very good.

_


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## muziksculp (Oct 22, 2021)

re-peat said:


> One other minor thing that might be considered a problem is that both the trumpets and the trombone at their brighest — high velocities combined with a modwheel yanked all the way up — produce a timbre which, I have a feeling, would be outlawed by the World Health Organization, if they knew about it, as being unfit for human consumption. Because it is an extremely piercing and grating sound. Borderline painful.


LOL ..


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## Ben H (Oct 25, 2021)

@re-peat I am wondering how CPU demanding they are as solo instruments, and also when you start stacking them as ensembles?


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## Ben H (Oct 25, 2021)

Ok, I'm gonna post some thoughts about what I'm hearing in the demos.

1. The attacks in most of the demos sound mushy to me. Maybe it's a consequence of playing them in with a keyboard as opposed to using breath/windcontroller?

Not sure why they didn't include any breath/windcontroller demos either? Since they're supposedly setup for this.

2. The tone is lovely. Much better than the synthetic-ish sounding tone of the AM Brass IMO. I prefer the human-ness of the samples+modeling approach vs pure physical modeling (which is not quite there yet IMO).

I also like the tone of the flugels more than the Sample Modeling flugel.

3. The ensembles sound a bit thin when the instruments are stacked. Maybe because there aren't any saxes to fill out the middle of the horn section? Also, as re-peat noted, they're not very punchy or ballsy. Hopefully we get some louder dynamics in an update.

--
I do LOVE the instrument placement feature...

I'm almost tempted to pull the trigger and buy this.

I already own SM and AM Brass though, so I don't really need another brass library? 

Although, more options are always good. 

Does anyone know Acousticsamples resale policy?


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Oct 26, 2021)

I’m a sucker for jazz libraries and the flügelhorns blew me a way in one of the demos I heard. I may have to find the budget for this given the glowing reviews here. I thought I was going to get through BF with just updating Seventh Heaven to pro (assuming there is a sale).


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## Octave_Jumper (Oct 26, 2021)

Have played around with these for a couple of hours and I believe Acousticsamples have succeeded in their aim of making a great sounding instrument that is very easy to play. I don't like using breath controllers so for me being able to create parts with just modwheel is really pleasurable. They have been very clever in designing the instrument to be as simple as possible.

CPU use was surprisingly low on my overclocked i7 laptop. Very pleasantly surprised here.

Acousticsamples libraries to me always sound 'vibey' and lively and the same is true here. It doesn't have a 'modelled' sound character.


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## muziksculp (Oct 26, 2021)

Octave_Jumper said:


> They have been very clever in designing the instrument to be as simple as possible.


imho. This is one big advantages in terms of ease of use, when compared to Sample Modeling Brass.


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## artinro (Oct 26, 2021)

FireGS said:


> I wish there was an audio demo in some sort of hall/orchestra setting.


Agreed. I'd love to hear how these work in an orchestral context. The tone, playing style etc... seems more geared for jazz but perhaps it's malleable?


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## muziksculp (Oct 26, 2021)

artinro said:


> Agreed. I'd love to hear how these work in an orchestral context. The tone, playing style etc... seems more geared for jazz but perhaps it's malleable?


Do the libraries have a Warning indicating : For Jazz usage Only !


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## muziksculp (Oct 26, 2021)

No one purchased any of these yet, or the bundle ?


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## artinro (Oct 26, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Do the libraries have a Warning indicating : For Jazz usage Only !



No, but it’s certainly the impression I got listening to the demos, which are 99% in that medium. The two other demos (Star Wars and Indiana Jones) sounded like jazz performers playing those lines. Library sounds great, just wondering how versatile it really is.


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## muziksculp (Oct 26, 2021)

OK, I decided to go for it. Got it from Audio Deluxe at an additional discount. Don't know if I did a smart thing, but I like what I hear from these instruments.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Oct 27, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> OK, I decided to go for it. Got it from Audio Deluxe at an additional discount. Don't know if I did a smart thing, but I like what I hear from these instruments.


Is that site legit? I’ve never used them and see loads of reviews claiming it’s a fraud and that there is no record of their purchase.


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## Ben H (Oct 27, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Is that site legit? I’ve never used them and see loads of reviews claiming it’s a fraud and that there is no record of their purchase.


Yes, they are legit.









KVR Forum: Arturia Collection 7 on AudioDeluxe ... fishy or not ? - Instruments Forum


KVR Audio Forum - Arturia Collection 7 on AudioDeluxe ... fishy or not ? - Instruments Forum




www.kvraudio.com


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## doctoremmet (Oct 27, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Is that site legit? I’ve never used them and see loads of reviews claiming it’s a fraud and that there is no record of their purchase.


By no means is Audiodeluxe a fraud. I’ve used them for years.


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## muziksculp (Oct 27, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Is that site legit? I’ve never used them and see loads of reviews claiming it’s a fraud and that there is no record of their purchase.


These reviews are the Fraud.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Oct 27, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> These reviews are the Fraud.


Yeah, not meaning to speak ill of them. Just have to be careful these days.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Oct 27, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> OK, I decided to go for it. Got it from Audio Deluxe at an additional discount. Don't know if I did a smart thing, but I like what I hear from these instruments.


Ordered from them. Just waiting for them to send the key. Glad you posted this as it’s cheaper for me to buy in dollars than euro and that $20 discount is nice!


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## muziksculp (Oct 27, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Ordered from them. Just waiting for them to send the key. Glad you posted this as it’s cheaper for me to buy in dollars than euro and that $20 discount is nice!


Congrats ! 

I already got my Serial Number, and Registered it on the AcousticSamples website, after creating an account, also registered my iLok account info. All deposited into my iLok account. 

Will install tomorrow.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Oct 27, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I already got my Serial Number, and Registered it on the AcousticSamples website, after creating an account, also registered my iLok account info. All deposited into my iLok account.
> 
> Will install tomorrow.


Cool. I figure it will be tomorrow before I get my S/N. That’s fine as I probably won’t have much time to try them out until the weekend, anyway.


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## Saxer (Oct 27, 2021)

Here a three very little snippets I made with V-Horns (2 Tp, 2 Tb) und Audiomodeling Saxes V3 (As, Ts, Bs). Room is Virtual Sound Stage 2 for early reflections+panning and Seventh Heaven for the tail.


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## Mikro93 (Oct 27, 2021)

I remember thinking, when I first listened to the demos, that I did not find them very convincing, especially because of the attacks. But I just relistened to everything, and wow, not bad at all!


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Oct 27, 2021)

This is in the other thread, but since people are commenting on the library here, I’m going to add it to the thread. Mainly because it’s what convinced me to buy it. That flugelhorn.


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## holywilly (Oct 27, 2021)

Saxer said:


> Here a three very little snippets I made with V-Horns (2 Tp, 2 Tb) und Audiomodeling Saxes V3 (As, Ts, Bs). Room is Virtual Sound Stage 2 for early reflections+panning and Seventh Heaven for the tail.


What’s your verdict of Vhorns against Swam instruments? 
Lovely writing by the way, love it!


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## Ben H (Oct 27, 2021)

Saxer said:


> Here a three very little snippets I made with V-Horns (2 Tp, 2 Tb) und Audiomodeling Saxes V3 (As, Ts, Bs). Room is Virtual Sound Stage 2 for early reflections+panning and Seventh Heaven for the tail.


Can I trouble you to post a V-Horns only version?


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## Saxer (Oct 27, 2021)

holywilly said:


> What’s your verdict of Vhorns against Swam instruments?
> Lovely writing by the way, love it!


I'm not a fan of the Audiomodeling Brass. VHorns are very natural and the trumpets are a bit more "jazzy" in the lower range. SWAM and VHorns are both very playable und customizeable. Samplemodeling Brass has more possibilities (mutes, shakes etc) but needs more controller diving when taking all the controls seriously. VHorns are easier to control. I used SM brass for ages, it's good to have some variation. VHorns will not replace them. But especially with virtual instruments there is a kind of saturation effect (not the audio saturation) when listening to the same samples over and over.


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## Saxer (Oct 27, 2021)

Ben H said:


> Can I trouble you to post a V-Horns only version?


I replaced the As by a third trumpet and the Ts and Bs by two more trombones


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## Zanshin (Oct 27, 2021)

I picked these up from Audio Deluxe too (what a good deal, thanks Muz!). Just had a quick play and very happy. I wanted some additional brass options that I could place in MIR environments (my main go to being Infinite right now).

Yes, like others have mentioned, I don't think these would be what I first reached for in a straight classical style piece but I don't think they are limited to jazz. I was looking for something that could cop the Seven Samurai style brass - I think these will do well. I am excited to see how they mix with VSL woodwinds and saxes.

I hope they release more in this vein!


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## holywilly (Oct 27, 2021)

Saxer said:


> I'm not a fan of the Audiomodeling Brass. VHorns are very natural and the trumpets are a bit more "jazzy" in the lower range. SWAM and VHorns are both very playable und customizeable. Samplemodeling Brass has more possibilities (mutes, shakes etc) but needs more controller diving when taking all the controls seriously. VHorns are easier to control. I used SM brass for ages, it's good to have some variation. VHorns will not replace them. But especially with virtual instruments there is a kind of saturation effect (not the audio saturation) when listening to the same samples over and over.


Thanks for your reply. I also use sample modeling brass for years, I think it’s time to invest a new set of brass. I’m in!


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## LatinXCombo (Oct 27, 2021)

I *am* looking for Jazz trumpets (a Latin sound.... which is probably obvious from my user name) and these look like they might work... I haven't found AM or SM to be taking me where I need to go. Might need to check these out.


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## william81723 (Oct 27, 2021)

Why does it not work for me T___T


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## Zanshin (Oct 27, 2021)

Weird, I didn’t even have to add it, the code was just there. Did you set up an account yet?


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## william81723 (Oct 27, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Weird, I didn’t even have to add it, the code was just there. Did you set up an account yet?


Yes and I've already logged in.


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## Mikro93 (Oct 27, 2021)

I'm afraid they have patched something. It was working for me earlier


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## william81723 (Oct 27, 2021)

That's not fair T___T.
I was just about to buy it.....
I'm crying now.


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## Zanshin (Oct 27, 2021)

Best Service has these too I believe, and they have up to 20 off Halloween promo that just started.


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## william81723 (Oct 27, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Best Service has these too I believe, and they have 20 off Halloween promo that just started.


Yes~I just got that information from my email too!! But thank you so much for letting me know!!


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 27, 2021)

The one thing that always nags me is when people play a flügelhorn as a trumpet. This library is no exception.

The flügelhorn and trumpet are different instruments. Due to the conical bore of the flügelhorn, it has the potential to sound much warmer and rounder than a trumpet. This approach gets the flügelhorn in alto trombone territory, not trumpets.

As far as I've heard demo's from this library, it does the same. Can somebody confirm that?


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## kgdrum (Oct 27, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Is that site legit? I’ve never used them and see loads of reviews claiming it’s a fraud and that there is no record of their purchase.




I’m another person that has used Audio Deluxe for many years,totally legit 👍


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## Mikro93 (Oct 28, 2021)

I don't need it I don't need it I don't need it I don't need it I don't need it


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## Ben H (Oct 28, 2021)

Does anyone know the resale policy for AcousticSamples?
I can't seem to find any info on their website.


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## odod (Oct 28, 2021)

anyone compared this with sasaki trumpet? 
dang, i just bought the SWAM ... this V Horns sounds so jazzy


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Oct 29, 2021)

I finally got them installed and I’m really pleased so far. Lovely tone, exactly what I was after. Lots of tone shaping options, so lots to explore.

I’d love a jazzy woodwind library like this as well.


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## Zanshin (Oct 29, 2021)

Yeah these are fantastic. I've been noodling on them the past few nights as I work on a max for live midi plugin, continually impressed. I feel like these are on par soundwise with the SM and IB offerings, but easier to play and get great sound out of. 

I want more too. Tuba, euphonium, bass trombone, saxophones, clarinets, flutes, please.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Oct 29, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Tuba, euphonium, bass trombone, saxophones, clarinets, flutes, please.


Yes! Bass flute as well.


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## Zanshin (Oct 29, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Yes! Bass flute as well.


Yeah ideally I'd love tenor, alto, bass - for sax, clarinet, and flute haha. Man has got to have dreams right??!


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## gamma-ut (Oct 29, 2021)

I'm not really feeling it vs SampleModeling or AudioModeling. I haven't had long to mess with it but I'm using it with a breath controller and the trumpet winds up sound a bit too much like a woodwind and AM is a lot more flexible. There are options to tweak breath response (and it has a handy smoothing function, which is always handy) so it may take a while to figure out how best to approach playing it.


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## Zanshin (Oct 29, 2021)

gamma-ut said:


> I'm not really feeling it vs SampleModeling or AudioModeling. I haven't had long to mess with it but I'm using it with a breath controller and the trumpet winds up sound a bit too much like a woodwind and AM is a lot more flexible. There are options to tweak breath response (and it has a handy smoothing function, which is always handy) so it may take a while to figure out how best to approach playing it.


Yeah it took a bit for me to tweak the trumpet to get the tone and response to velocity and expression I wanted. But yeah, like all these VIs, it's subjective. For example, the AM brass sounds like plastic imitation crap to me hah.


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## LatinXCombo (Oct 29, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> I finally got them installed and I’m really pleased so far. Lovely tone, exactly what I was after. Lots of tone shaping options, so lots to explore.
> 
> I’d love a jazzy woodwind library like this as well.


I agree, out-of-the-box these trumpets seem to be a little easier to get started with some nice sounds versus SWAM or Samplemodeling. Intuitive interface. (Plus doesn't require the full version of Kontakt, which I'm not in the mood to pay for at the moment, which kinda knocked Sasaki, Screaming Trumpet, and a bunch of other contenders out of the running for me.) 

That said, I guess I'll now see how well this plays with SM and AM!


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## LatinXCombo (Oct 29, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Yeah it took a bit for me to tweak the trumpet to get the tone and response to velocity and expression I wanted. But yeah, like all these VIs, it's subjective. For example, the AM brass sounds like plastic imitation crap to me hah.


Ain't nothing like the real thing, no question. My quest for the silver-toned bullet to hang for a while on a jazz solo remains unfinished!


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## Zanshin (Oct 29, 2021)

LatinXCombo said:


> I agree, out-of-the-box these trumpets seem to be a little easier to get started with some nice sounds versus SWAM or Samplemodeling. Intuitive interface. (Plus doesn't require the full version of Kontakt, which I'm not in the mood to pay for at the moment, which kinda knocked Sasaki, Screaming Trumpet, and a bunch of other contenders out of the running for me.)
> 
> That said, I guess I'll now see how well this plays with SM and AM!


Sasaki... I know people want to compare this with that, but Sasaki is a great horn player, one dynamic layer - so in that narrow range it's fantastic (my impression from the demos). The VHorn stuff is meant to cover the entire dynamic range which I think it does pretty well.

I think it's safe to say, that between AM, SM, and IB, it's closest to SM... from the VHorns webpage:

"Following the original approach of Dr. Giorgio Tommasini and Samplemodeling on harmonic alignment, we developed our own approach and called it HAT (Harmonic Alignment Technology). This technology allows us to accurately reproduce the timbre evolution from very soft to very loud playing."


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## muziksculp (Oct 29, 2021)

Sample Modeling *Trumpet V3* is still one of the best sounding trumpets.


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## LatinXCombo (Oct 29, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Sasaki... I know people want to compare this with that, but Sasaki is a great horn player, one dynamic layer - so in that narrow range it's fantastic (my impression from the demos). The VHorn stuff is meant to cover the entire dynamic range which I think it does pretty well.


It does sound cool, but I can only spend so much at a time on this


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## LatinXCombo (Oct 29, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Sample Modeling *Trumpet V3* is still one of the best sounding trumpets.



Don't mean to hijack this thread away from VHorns, but I've not had quite as much success with SM as I have with AM, which is what drove me toward VHorns. Sometimes I feel like I'm fighting the user interface on SM. (I grant you it's probably a training issue, but only have so many hours in the day to spend on this... If there's an article that explains how to get inside of SM a little more someone could send my way, that would be much appreciated.) There. last I'll say on that here.


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## Zanshin (Oct 29, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Sample Modeling *Trumpet V3* is still one of the best sounding trumpets.


Agreed. I like the IB one as well. IMO the VHorn is a bit easier to use though. But beyond that VHorn trumpets bring some more timbres and characters to the table. Not to mention the flugelhorns, and trombones. It's a great deal for the package!


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## muziksculp (Oct 29, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Agreed. I like the IB one as well. IMO the VHorn is a bit easier to use though. But beyond that VHorn trumpets bring some more timbres and characters to the table. Not to mention the flugelhorns, and trombones. It's a great deal for the package!


Thanks for the feedback. I have all of the ones you mentioned, I didn't install VHorns yet. But I was impressed by the demos, and the ease of use. So, I totally agree with you. SM Trumpet 3 is great, but comes at a much steeper learning curve, and is more complex to use.


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## muziksculp (Oct 29, 2021)

I wonder if AcousticSamples has plans to use the techniques they used for VHorns to develop Strings ? Solo & Ensemble ?


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## Zanshin (Oct 29, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I wonder if AcousticSamples has plans to use the techniques they used for VHorns to develop Strings ? Solo & Ensemble ?


HEY get in line. I want more brass and woodwinds first


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## Octave_Jumper (Oct 29, 2021)

on their youtube channel they say they have alto sax in beta, but also that "we'll need some time to make the sax family available, we spent 2 years on these, and even though it will be much less than that, we still have quite some work to do"

they also say "We plan on using this for various instruments like woodwinds, horns or even strings"


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## muziksculp (Oct 29, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> HEY get in line. I want more brass and woodwinds first


I thought you wanted more Koto libraries


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Oct 29, 2021)

Octave_Jumper said:


> on their youtube channel they say they have alto sax in beta, but also that "we'll need some time to make the sax family available, we spent 2 years on these, and even though it will be much less than that, we still have quite some work to do"
> 
> they also say "We plan on using this for various instruments like woodwinds, horns or even strings"


Great news. Plus, at that rate of development, my wallet can probably keep up.


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## Mikro93 (Nov 1, 2021)

Mikro93 said:


> I don't need it I don't need it I don't need it I don't need it I don't need it


I NEED IT


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## doctoremmet (Nov 1, 2021)

Mikro93 said:


> I NEED IT


#sweet!


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## Petrucci (Nov 1, 2021)

Are these CPU-hungry?? Thinking about em, liked the demos a lot..!


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## Zanshin (Nov 1, 2021)

Petrucci said:


> Are these CPU-hungry?? Thinking about em, liked the demos a lot..!


I didn’t do in-depth measurements, but they seem pretty cpu friendly.


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## Leandro Gardini (Nov 1, 2021)

All the demos I've heard so far are jazzy ones. Is there somebody using VHorns as classical instruments?


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## Craig Sharmat (Nov 1, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Sasaki... I know people want to compare this with that, but Sasaki is a great horn player, one dynamic layer - so in that narrow range it's fantastic (my impression from the demos). The VHorn stuff is meant to cover the entire dynamic range which I think it does pretty well.
> 
> I think it's safe to say, that between AM, SM, and IB, it's closest to SM... from the VHorns webpage:
> 
> "Following the original approach of Dr. Giorgio Tommasini and Samplemodeling on harmonic alignment, we developed our own approach and called it HAT (Harmonic Alignment Technology). This technology allows us to accurately reproduce the timbre evolution from very soft to very loud playing."


This!

I have both and I will concur with your thoughts.


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## Petrucci (Nov 1, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> I didn’t do in-depth measurements, but they seem pretty cpu friendly.


Thanks!


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## Batrawi (Nov 2, 2021)

Leandro Gardini said:


> All the demos I've heard so far are jazzy ones. Is there somebody using VHorns as classical instruments?


I consider it to be an all-purpose-instrument and not just intended for jazz. There are several options for both the instrument mics and high quality stage positioning IRs which should give you the initial body&dimension you desire and which should respond well to the reverb of your choice should you want to add more tail. You can see those settings being messed with in this video starting 6:54. 



So basically anything that can be done with similar-approach libraries such as CH/AV/SM/AM, can also be achieved with Vhorns, with the exception that-imo- it has an even much better/authentic tone to start with!


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## Mikro93 (Nov 2, 2021)

Leandro Gardini said:


> All the demos I've heard so far are jazzy ones. Is there somebody using VHorns as classical instruments?


Granted, there would be some space positionning to do, and I don't have Valhalla Room on this computer. But I feel like you can pull off some classical/orchestral lines. Here's a quick example, from Howl's Moving Castle 

The virtual mics give some weird phasing (EDIT: as in, the stereo image sounded all weird to me, not the phasing we'd have when playing two samples at the same time) everytime I messed with them, I need to spend more time on it. In any case, this is with a touch of Ableton's built-in reverb and a lot of Raum, so, not optimal.

By the way, this is Trumpet 2.


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## Markus Kohlprath (Nov 2, 2021)

Marcus Millfield said:


> The one thing that always nags me is when people play a flügelhorn as a trumpet. This library is no exception.
> 
> The flügelhorn and trumpet are different instruments. Due to the conical bore of the flügelhorn, it has the potential to sound much warmer and rounder than a trumpet. This approach gets the flügelhorn in alto trombone territory, not trumpets.
> 
> As far as I've heard demo's from this library, it does the same. Can somebody confirm that?


Interesting what you say. It was exactly my impression and I thought probably no one cares about that. I'm looking for a warm flugelhorn tone like the wonderful jazz flugelhornist Herbert Joos. And this, as well as the others I have like SM, does not really get you there from what I hear in the walkthrough. If anybody knows where to get this kind of warm and round flugelhorn tone I would highly appreciate to get some info.


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 2, 2021)

Markus Kohlprath said:


> Interesting what you say. It was exactly my impression and I thought probably no one cares about that. I'm looking for a warm flugelhorn tone like the wonderful jazz flugelhornist Herbert Joos. And this, as well as the others I have like SM, does not really get you there from what I hear in the walkthrough. If anybody knows where to get this kind of warm and round flugelhorn tone I would highly appreciate to get some info.


The only one I've found to date is from Pianobook. This comes close and strays from the omni-present trumpetty flugelhorn sound:






Dusty Flugelhorn – pianobook







www.pianobook.co.uk


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## Markus Kohlprath (Nov 2, 2021)

Marcus Millfield said:


> The only one I've found to date is from Pianobook. This comes close and strays from the omni-present trumpetty flugelhorn sound:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you. Well judging from the demos certainly pretty restricted but might be useful on some occasions. The _sound is in the right directio_n. I'll certainly get it. 
Since you mentioned it: Vsl has an alto trombone. Maybe this could be useful too.


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 2, 2021)

Markus Kohlprath said:


> Thank you. Well judging from the demos certainly pretty restricted but might be useful on some occasions. The _sound is in the right directio_n. I'll certainly get it.
> Since you mentioned it: Vsl has an alto trombone. Maybe this could be useful too.


It probably can, yeah.


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## Zanshin (Nov 2, 2021)

Markus Kohlprath said:


> Thank you. Well judging from the demos certainly pretty restricted but might be useful on some occasions. The _sound is in the right directio_n. I'll certainly get it.
> Since you mentioned it: Vsl has an alto trombone. Maybe this could be useful too.


I keep thinking I might want some of the VSL VI Brass, especially the Bb Trumpet. I don't see them Synchron-izing any of it. The alto trombone caught my eye as well. But then I bought VHorns and I've tabled the idea for a bit. The idea is still there, like a eye tick that won't go away haha. Not a huge fan of the VI player though (which I have to use for the VI saxes).


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## SchnookyPants (Nov 2, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Ordered from them. Just waiting for them to send the key. Glad you posted this as it’s cheaper for me to buy in dollars than euro and that $20 discount is nice!


I guess they only had so-much room in their warehouse for the 'Section:





OUT OF STOCK! (never saw _that_ before).

And I saw no $20 discount.

Oh well... as usual, a day late and a Jackson short.


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## Zanshin (Nov 2, 2021)

SchnookyPants said:


> OUT OF STOCK!
> 
> And I saw no $20 discount.
> 
> Oh well... as usual, a day late and a Jackson short.


That happens to me quite often haha. The additional $20 off is sweet, but really the intro price is not bad.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Nov 2, 2021)

SchnookyPants said:


> I guess they only had so-much room in their warehouse for the 'Section:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah, bummer. I didn’t know what was a thing either! That extra $20 off was almost too good to be true!


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Nov 2, 2021)

Mikro93 said:


> ...
> The virtual mics give some weird phasing (EDIT: as in, the stereo image sounded all weird to me, not the phasing we'd have when playing two samples at the same time) everytime I messed with them, I need to spend more time on it. ...


Did you try different mic setups? Blumlein pair is set as default and this approach isn't famous for having a strong phantom center; XY and MS are better in this respect, maybe you'd find it more apropriate for your needs.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Nov 2, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Did you try different mic setups? Blumlein pair is set as default and this approach isn't famous for having a strong phantom center; XY and MS are better in this respect, maybe you'd find it more apropriate for your needs.


Not directed at me, but I’ve been finding that I really like the XY setup.


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Nov 2, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Not directed at me, but I’ve been finding that I really like the XY setup.


For me it depends on two things: context and context.
1. The context of the mix and how I'm placing other parts,
2. The context of how a piece is going to be played. If, for example, it would often be a mono playback, AB or "Head" might not be the best choice.

Sorry for going off topic.


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## Mikro93 (Nov 2, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Did you try different mic setups? Blumlein pair is set as default and this approach isn't famous for having a strong phantom center; XY and MS are better in this respect, maybe you'd find it more apropriate for your needs.


Yes I did 
I think I went with the MS setup for this example. And for a close sound, I really like the XY setup


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## Garlu (Nov 3, 2021)

SchnookyPants said:


> I guess they only had so-much room in their warehouse for the 'Section:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@Best Service Wolfgang has it at a great price in Europe.  
Just purchased it!


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## Batrawi (Nov 3, 2021)

I haven't gone into the manual yet, but is there any way to play in non-legato mode/polyphonic sustains? so far navigating the GUI I don't see this is possible. But I think this is a very handy feature to add with such warm/thick sounding instruments for fast sketching and choral works, no?!


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## SchnookyPants (Nov 3, 2021)

I gotta' tell ya'... That Flugelhorn demo via "My Funny Valentine" sounds, especially in the lower opening notes, a little oboe-ish and/or soprano sax-ish. Maybe it's just the player executing excessive pitchbend... 'not sure. I may just go w/ the Trumpet.

EDIT: I think my ears are going. It sounds pretty fine, today.

Maybe it's time I pack it in...


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## Windbag (Nov 4, 2021)

Hey can I verify what I think I'm seeing in the videos with one of you that has this set?

Specifically the "manual" vibrato mode: looks like it's an offset (for pressure/ombouchure whatever magic horn players do) that you can manually move around to play in a freeform vibrato curve shape/intensity; is that what that's doing? How does it compare to pitch bend? 

That piques my interest as it could be rather powerful.


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## Mikro93 (Nov 4, 2021)

Leandro Gardini said:


> All the demos I've heard so far are jazzy ones. Is there somebody using VHorns as classical instruments?


I'll quote you again and leave this quick little thing here.

Trumpets 1 and 2, Flugelhorns 1 and 2, Trombone 1. XY setup for all.

An extra reverb bus. Tiiiiiiiny bit of EQ on the main trumpet to shave some low end. Compressor on the master.

Of course, it could be better. This was all played on a MIDI keyboard, by the way, just using CC1.

Enjoy


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## Batrawi (Nov 4, 2021)

Windbag said:


> Specifically the "manual" vibrato mode: looks like it's an offset (for pressure/ombouchure whatever magic horn players do) that you can manually move around to play in a freeform vibrato curve shape/intensity; is that what that's doing? How does it compare to pitch bend?


not quite sure what you mean by "how does it compare to pitch bend", but yes it's possible to completely disable the auto-vibrato and play it manually to your liking by jiggling the dynamic/modwheel and it responds naturally


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## Petrucci (Nov 4, 2021)

Got em with SWEET deal!)) So far tried a little and they are very comfortable to play, placed them in Synchron Wide stage via MIR and they sound even better there, very nice addition indeed!


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## Batrawi (Nov 4, 2021)

Petrucci said:


> Got em with SWEET deal!)) So far tried a little and they are very comfortable to play, placed them in Synchron Wide stage via MIR and they sound even better there, very nice addition indeed!


That's my best purchase so far in 2021, I just hope they add a poly sustain mode in an update cause it's really a shame not to benefit form these beautifully captured beefy sounds for chord writing and still enjoy all flexibilities available in the sustains. I just sent them a feature request about this and hope you guys agree and do the same so that our voices add up to their interest


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## Windbag (Nov 4, 2021)

Batrawi said:


> not quite sure what you mean by "how does it compare to pitch bend", but yes it's possible to completely disable the auto-vibrato and play it manually to your liking by jiggling the dynamic/modwheel and it responds naturally


Thanks! Very interesting indeed

I was just wondering if that manual vibrato produces a similar result to the regular pitch bend given the pitch involvement in brass vibratos, or if it's really more of a timbral change. Also wondering if centered (64) is effectively neutral, allowing you to skew more up or down in different contexts


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## Cmyth_1 (Nov 20, 2021)

Just picked up the Trumpet today, right out the box it sounds amazing!
Here's an example of me playing the Zelda theme with the default patch.


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## doctoremmet (May 10, 2022)

I just spotted this in my YT feed. I think it’s time I’d put these on my “watch out for a sale / BF2022 list”


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