# X-touch automation problems... (again!)



## Garry (Mar 9, 2018)

I have such a love/hate relationship with this thing! I know that the common statement around the X-touch universal, unlike it's smaller (and cheaper!) brother, the X-touch compact, cannot control midi CC. However, that isn't true: it works nicely in Smart Control mode. It's really nice for controlling CC in fact, and feels much better than the nanokontrol2 I frequently end up defaulting to when the X-touch is driving me insane.

Here's the problem: I have set up 3 faders to control parameters. As long as I'm in touch/latch/write mode, it records this perfectly. It records to the track (not sure why not to the region (as the nanokontrol does), or if this makes a difference, and/or can be changed. I play this back, and it works fine; the faders move according to the changes made to the corresponding parameter, and everything sounds as it should.

*However*, if I now leave it in latch mode (but make no further automation adjustments during playback) and then playback, then it permanently screws up the automation. Now, even if I turn off latch mode, the notes play back as if stuttering, as if some other automation has been written on top, and is competing with the original. But when I look at the automation, there is nothing additionally written, either to track or to region, but it seems permanently screwed up!

This is a real pain because I frequently forget to either turn on latch/touch (so the automation doesn't record), or I forget to turn it off after recording (so the automation gets corrupted).

I turned off the X-touch off to see if it's getting interference from that; similarly, I unplugged the nanokontrol2, but playback is still screwed up.

Any suggestions?!!!

Many thanks.


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## Garry (Mar 9, 2018)

Just a couple of additional observations in case this helps diagnose the problem:

- actually, it seems the problem is with playback, whether or not the x-touch is in latch mode or not. I had thought that it was over-writing values during playback whilst it was in latch mode, but the stuttering playback occurs in any mode, including read. 
- I noticed that the CPU % in Kontakt flickers red (even though the values remain low, around 10-15%) during playback
- During playback, notes cut in and out; if I play a chord, frequently only 1 note is played.
- The strange thing is, if you look at the recording of the automation data, it looks perfect, having recorded exactly the automation that I performed on the X-touch, and the also the faders move during playback precisely in accordance with the automation data, but it does not playback well at all - it's not a subtle effect, it's like listening to a scratched record.
- This is entirely an X-touch issue: I recorded the above with the nanokontrol2 unplugged, so that I wasn't getting any conflicts. I then turn off the x-touch, and record automation with the nanokontrol2: records perfectly (always in region, never in track - don't know why they're different), and plays back perfectly. Same samples as before, same Kontakt instance; same everything, apart from different control surface.

Arggghh!!!! 

Can anyone save my sanity from this?!!


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## Havoc911 (Mar 9, 2018)

What DAW are you using? Have you tried to use a MIDI monitor to see what's getting sent to the DAW from the X-touch.


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## Garry (Mar 9, 2018)

Havoc911 said:


> What DAW are you using? Have you tried to use a MIDI monitor to see what's getting sent to the DAW from the X-touch.



I’m using Logic - would that be the Events editor?


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## Havoc911 (Mar 9, 2018)

I'm not sure, I've never used logic. :( It's a MIDI insert in Cubase, maybe logic does something similar?


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## Garry (Mar 10, 2018)

So, this is interesting: first I record some midi on track2, changing automation with the X-touch (see first screen shot). As you can see, the automation is clearly recorded to the track (nothing recorded to region), but looking in the Events List, under controller, there is nothing recorded. Also, if I look under PitchBend, there are 9 events recorded, even though I didn't modulate pitche bend. When I playback, the sound cuts in and out very badly, as always.

Next I record midi on track 2, this time changing automation with the nanokontrol2 (see 2nd screenshot): here the automation is recorded to region (nothing recorded to track), and under 'Controller' in the Events list, I can see the automation having been recorded. Playback is fine.

Very odd! So, with the X-touch, the track info is recorded, but clearly not correctly (given it's absence from the event list).

Can anyone diagnose the problem from this?

Many thanks.


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## Garry (Mar 10, 2018)

Also, here is my control surface setup and assignments page, in case this helps.


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## Havoc911 (Mar 10, 2018)

I had been looking into getting an Xtouch and decided against it. I'm glad that I did. Having said that, I'm familiar with some people's complaints that the mapping is wonky on these units. I've heard others have problems with pitch bend data. Attached is one of your photos showing your controller assignment. You can see that it's set to be sending pitch bend data. I'm not sure why.

Is this smart control thing basically a MIDI learn function where you can assign different parameters to existing buttons? Can you put the unit into a MIDI mode, or are you still in control surface mode when writing the CC1 or CC11 data? I think those people who say that the Xtouch cannot control CC data are probably correct in that, while it can in some cases, it sends other MIDI data that really screws with your project. Most control surfaces that can effectively do both have a separate mode just for sending MIDI data. The ProjectMix from M-Audio was like that.

You might want to have a look over at the Behringer forums.


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## Garry (Mar 10, 2018)

Havoc911 said:


> I had been looking into getting an Xtouch and decided against it. I'm glad that I did. Having said that, I'm familiar with some people's complaints that the mapping is wonky on these units. I've heard others have problems with pitch bend data. Attached is one of your photos showing your controller assignment. You can see that it's set to be sending pitch bend data. I'm not sure why.
> 
> Is this smart control thing basically a MIDI learn function where you can assign different parameters to existing buttons? Can you put the unit into a MIDI mode, or are you still in control surface mode when writing the CC1 or CC11 data? I think those people who say that the Xtouch cannot control CC data are probably correct in that, while it can in some cases, it sends other MIDI data that really screws with your project. Most control surfaces that can effectively do both have a separate mode just for sending MIDI data. The ProjectMix from M-Audio was like that.
> 
> You might want to have a look over at the Behringer forums.



I think you did the right thing not going for the X-Touch; at least, not the X-Touch Universal; the Compact is meant to be pretty good, and there are some users on this forum who are happy with it. The problem is, they don't make it clear at all that the Universal (which is more expensive than the Compact), does not have the functionality of the Compact - it's basically just a mixer. I'm of course to blame for not checking into this in more detail before buying, but I do wish they'd be clearer in their advertising. If I could swap the Universal for the Compact now, I would (any takers?!).

Thanks for pointing out the pitch bend - I'll look into this. I wonder if I can stop this, if this is what is interfering with the midi cc, which is clearly being recorded.

Yes, Smart Controls is a MIDI learn function in Logic, and you put the X-touch into this mode (Shift+Instrument).

I've just set up an account at Behringer, and waiting for it to be activated. I'll post back to this forum if I get any further, as I know there are people here using the X-Touch for midi cc control that might also be having problems. Speaking of this, I would give up with trying to get the x-touch working for midi cc control (I fully expect this will immediately be Behringer's reply, that this functionality is not supported for the Universal), but I know of others that have managed to get it working (eg, see here). @procreative and @HeliaVox - any thoughts on my settings? I know you guys have managed to get this working - any thoughts on my settings, and if they differ to yours? I used the script that you shared @procreative for the X-touch recording.

Thanks Havoc911 for your thoughts and input - much appreciated.


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## procreative (Mar 10, 2018)

Firstly in your first example the reason no data is in the region is because you have Automation set to "Track" (the little blue button on the track).

Secondly you are recording automation not midi cc data (I see you are using my script), this reads the automation recorded and converts it to CC information before it passes to the midi notes.

Looking at your event list, the reason its not showing the data is because you recorded it as Track Automation. Try doing it as Region and it will show. It will have "Fader" as the Status.

Remember this is a workaround, Midi CC natively can never send the required midi feedback to enable faders to sync (at least not in Logic) - well thats not strictly true there is a way to do it in the environment but its very impractical.

This method uses automation to control both the hardware and the midifx script converts it into midi cc information before the midi data on the track, basically translating it into commands the VI understands.


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## procreative (Mar 10, 2018)

By the way if like the real Mackie MCU, the X-Touch uses full Mackie Control protocol there should be a way to use the Smart Controls automatically without any programming. On mine whatever smart controls are present on a track will automatically populate the 8 rotary knobs at the top of each channel (and if you fancy can be flipped with the faders so they become smart controls). I dont know the Behringher enough to know if its got full implementation and the require buttons to change modes (check the manual).


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## Garry (Mar 10, 2018)

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply - really appreciate it.



procreative said:


> Firstly in your first example the reason no data is in the region is because you have Automation set to "Track" (the little blue button on the track).



Logic doesn't seem to allow me to select region, and select touch/latch/write mode: if I select region, it immediately goes into read mode (see Track 1 in the screenshot); if I then change read mode to touch/latch/write, it retains this, but automatically switches me back into track (see Track 2 in screenshot). With the x-touch, I have therefore never been able to write automation to region, only to track. With the nanokontrol2, I don't need to have touch/latch/write switched on, and it automatically records automation to the region, never to track.








procreative said:


> Secondly you are recording automation not midi cc data (I see you are using my script), this reads the automation recorded and converts it to CC information before it passes to the midi notes.
> 
> Looking at your event list, the reason its not showing the data is because you recorded it as Track Automation. Try doing it as Region and it will show. It will have "Fader" as the Status.



Same as above, I can't record automation from the X-touch to region, only to track. This is the case whether or not the track I'm using engages your script or not.




procreative said:


> Remember this is a workaround, Midi CC natively can never send the required midi feedback to enable faders to sync (at least not in Logic) - well thats not strictly true there is a way to do it in the environment but its very impractical.
> 
> This method uses automation to control both the hardware and the midifx script converts it into midi cc information before the midi data on the track, basically translating it into commands the VI understands.



I'm not sure I fully understand how it works (ok, I am sure that I don't!  ), but does it mean that if I can't record to region, this won't work? I don't know why I can't record to region though - this doesn't seem to be an X-touch issue, since Logic simply won't allow me to do this (even if the X-touch is disconnected) - I must be doing something wrong here or misunderstanding?


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## Garry (Mar 10, 2018)

procreative said:


> By the way if like the real Mackie MCU, the X-Touch uses full Mackie Control protocol there should be a way to use the Smart Controls automatically without any programming. On mine whatever smart controls are present on a track will automatically populate the 8 rotary knobs at the top of each channel (and if you fancy can be flipped with the faders so they become smart controls). I dont know the Behringher enough to know if its got full implementation and the require buttons to change modes (check the manual).



The X-touch can be run in Mackie or HUI mode, but I presume it doesn't support the full protocol, as Behringer acknowledges the the X-touch universal is not intended to control midi CC (for this, I should have bought the X-touch Compact). However, since others have the Universal up and running for midi CC, it seems there is a way to get it working, though based on their answers to other users, they don't seem to want to support this.


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## procreative (Mar 10, 2018)

Firstly, to record Region automation you need a region on the track, your screen shot shows an empty track. Thats why you cannot record Region automation, there is no region! Either:

1. Record some notes then change mode to Latch or Touch and do a second pass with your X-Touch
2. Insert an empty region by ctrl clicking in the trackand do a second pass with your X-Touch
3. Record some notes and move your X-Touch at the same time

Your Nanocontrol is a midi controller, the X-Touch is an audio controller with the ability to pass automation data. They are two different protocols. The Nanocontrol is not passing automation data its Midi data, so the data it outputs is Midi CC, whereas the data the Mackie outputs is automation (which my script converts to CC for the VI but this is never recorded this way its converted live).

Mackie protocol does not output midi CC on any devices. The faders and pots output automation.

If you want faders that respond to the position recorded, automation is the only way. If you want passive faders that are for data entry only, then a Nanocontrol or the Modwheel/Knobs found on most keyboard controllers are enough.

My script is intended to take advantage of motorised faders so they always sit where the data is.

I cannot imagine why you would want to record CC data without any notes, but if you must then maybe this is not for you unless you use one of the 3 points above.


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## Garry (Mar 10, 2018)

Well, progress of sorts! You were correct in that I hadn't understood that to record automation to a region, there must first be a region! (makes sense I guess!!). Yes, I'm attempting to record CC data with notes - I just hadn't understood that Logic doesn't allow you to put the region into latch mode, until a region has been created, even if that's an empty region.

Ok, so now, with an empty midi region, I was able to select region and turn on latch mode. Then, using your script, I was able to record real time automation data as I played in midi data. However, unfortunately, this didn't solve my problem: there is still the same interference on playback, making it sound monophonic and intermittent, for some unknown reason. 

I think I give up at this point! Next step... eBay!

Thank you for trying - you were a huge help


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## LAViking (Jul 26, 2019)

I wish I would have been here before you hit eBay with your X Touch.

When I first installed my X Touch I had issues with automation working and buttons not lighting or functioning. I deleted my Mackie Control and set it up again in Logic X control surface setup and I still could not get it working 100%. I thought there might be a conflict with other Midi controllers I had connected and maybe even made things worse by deleting and resetting up Mackie control a few times trying to correct the issue.

Long story short I decided to start over because I had a hunch that the Logic X preferences file might have become corrupted with all the stuff I was doing. I shut down Logic X then deleted both Logic X files in the preferences folder. Restarted Logic and Set up X Touch with Mackie Control from scratch and everything works perfectly now.

Those preferences can cause problems. So be sure to consider that if you are a Mac user. Fixes a lot of apparent bugs.

The Preferences folder is hidden by default. You will need to Option Click the Go Menu to see the /User/Library/Preferences

Files:

com.apple.logic10.plist

com.apple.logic.pro.cs

Good luck!


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## Garry (Jul 27, 2019)

Thanks for your reply. Yes you're right, and I remember doing this back when I was fighting against my XTouch, but in the end, I decided to give in, and just use the XTouch as a mixer, and the nanokontrol for CCs. The XTouch has definitely been my worst hardware purchase, but I am to blame, because I didn't check that this version (the Universal) had the functionality I needed (CC control), and just assumed it from the fact that the cheaper version (the Compact) did have it (my fault - lesson learned!). I've recently purchased the Stream Deck, which is awesome, and since I now use this for all the button functions that was previously done via the XTouch and nanokontrol for faders/CC, the XTouch is almost redundant for me now - just haven't gotten around to ebaying it yet...


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## MexicanBreed (Jul 31, 2019)

There is a piece of software - which I have no experience with- that presumably turns fader data into CCs. It is called Dfader by Devil Technologies. I sold my faderport before even knowing about it so I can't really say more about it.


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