# Native Instruments Symphony Series String Ensemble



## Marius Masalar

Produced in collaboration with...*Audiobro*! Excitement level=very high.

http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/orchestral-cinematic/symphony-series-string-ensemble/?content=3135


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## woodsdenis

Marius Masalar said:


> Produced in collaboration with...*Audiobro*! Excitement level=very high.
> 
> http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/orchestral-cinematic/symphony-series-string-ensemble/?content=3135



And a cross grade for Komplete owners


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## james7275

Well they sure are moving along fast. Didn't Symphony Series brass just come out like 6 months ago?
I wonder who native Instruments will team up with to do percussion and woodwinds with.


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## ysnyvz

It's like glorious version of LASS. All in one patches, real second violins, mic positions and auto divisi. I have to buy it


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## tav.one

I just launched NI website & saw this. Wow!
Its $299 for crossgrade, Yayyyy!!!!!

I think I'll wait till they complete the Symphony Series, then we may have some pretty good offer on the bundle as whole or individual bundles (Brass, Strings, maybe upcoming Woodwinds?)

Waiting for a response/review from the experts of the community about this.


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## Studio E

I'm imagining the flexibility of LASS with a much more polished sound and room. That would be amazing


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## Vartio

why does it sound like strangling cats again? It still lacks the characteristic thickness and warmth of actual string ensemble. i was hoping to hear some of that in the demos.


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## WindcryMusic

itstav said:


> Waiting for a response/review from the experts of the community about this.



So would I. I suspect I would benefit from having divisi string sections available, as I know my current orchestrations have some of that "string buildup" issue, and so I really feel inclined to pull the trigger on this because of the crossgrade price. But I don't have any experience with string libraries outside of Albion 1/2/ONE and the ancient EWQLSO Gold (pre-Play version), so I don't feel qualified to judge how this compares to something like CineStrings or LASS.


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## mgpqa1

Interesting! I'm still new to the world of orchestral VIs so apologies if the following is a silly question. Since it now appears each section of NI's Symphony Series will be developed by a different company (and thus different recording equipment, techniques, spaces, etc.), will this be a problem when trying to get all of them to blend together in the final mix or is that something not worth worrying about with modern symphonic libraries?


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## constaneum

Apart from the MIC positions offered, I wonder how is this different from LASS. As for the woodwinds, i wonder whether they'll collaborate with Spitfire or Orchestral Tools? =D


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## ysnyvz

Vartio said:


> why does it sound like strangling cats again? It still lacks the characteristic thickness and warmth of actual string ensemble. i was hoping to hear some of that in the demos.


It sounds beatiful to me here:


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## GULL

itstav said:


> I think I'll wait till they complete the Symphony Series, then we may have some pretty good offer on the bundle as whole or individual bundles (Brass, Strings, maybe upcoming Woodwinds?)



Clearly, NI has joined the league.


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## jacobthestupendous

Does this come out of the box with everything panned to the center like the SS Brass?


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## Zhao Shen

Vartio said:


> why does it sound like strangling cats again? It still lacks the characteristic thickness and warmth of actual string ensemble. i was hoping to hear some of that in the demos.


I somewhat agree. It sounds good, but lacks color, warmth, depth, and the legato transitions sound like extremely well-programmed MIDI - which would be alright if there weren't other libraries that sound closer to actual transitions. I guess we'll see how things go - definitely going to keep an eye on this.


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## apessino

itstav said:


> I think I'll wait till they complete the Symphony Series, then we may have some pretty good offer on the bundle as whole or individual bundles (Brass, Strings, maybe upcoming Woodwinds?)



Maybe they'll throw in a free harp.

Can't wait for this!


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## willbedford

mgpqa1 said:


> Interesting! I'm still new to the world of orchestral VIs so apologies if the following is a silly question. Since it now appears each section of NI's Symphony Series will be developed by a different company (and thus different recording equipment, techniques, spaces, etc.), will this be a problem when trying to get all of them to blend together in the final mix or is that something not worth worrying about with modern symphonic libraries?


I was thinking the same thing. It removes the incentive to buy the full collection, if they're not recorded in the same hall with the same engineers.
I've been discussing this on Facebook, and someone brought up the point that hybrid composers like to layer libraries together that were recorded differently. But in that case, you'd surely buy libraries from separate companies if you wanted that sound. 

I expected the 'Symphony Series' to be a single cohesive orchestra, but seemingly that isn't the case.


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## zvenx

http://www.native-instruments.com/e...phony-series-string-ensemble/tutorial-videos/

Unlike many here, I was/am not a fan of LASS.
I didn't like either its playability or its sound.
This playability, at least from the tutorial, for me is outstanding. Auto Divisi alone is worth it.
Alas I still don't like the sound of this library at all either.

rsp


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## Zhao Shen

willbedford said:


> I was thinking the same thing. It removes the incentive to buy the full collection, if they're not recorded in the same hall with the same engineers.
> I've been discussing this on Facebook, and someone brought up the point that hybrid composers like to layer libraries together that were recorded differently. But in that case, you'd surely buy libraries from separate companies if you wanted that sound.
> 
> I expected the 'Symphony Series' to be a single cohesive orchestra, but seemingly that isn't the case.


Or perhaps NI takes care of the hall and equipment and lets the collaborator do whatever they need to.

Looking back on my criticism of the library, it may be due in part to the fact that the demos use almost 0 dynamics modulation.


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## ysnyvz

jacobthestupendous said:


> Does this come out of the box with everything panned to the center like the SS Brass?


According to videos, each section was recorded in usual position.


Zhao Shen said:


> I somewhat agree. It sounds good, but lacks color, warmth, depth, and the legato transitions sound like extremely well-programmed MIDI - which would be alright if there weren't other libraries that sound closer to actual transitions. I guess we'll see how things go - definitely going to keep an eye on this.


It's 60 piece strings but recorded in half sections (8+8, 7+7, 6+6, 5+5, 4+4). Probably that's why it sounds less lush than you expected.


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## willbedford

Zhao Shen said:


> Or perhaps NI takes care of the hall and equipment and lets the collaborator do whatever they need to.


According to the product pages, the strings were recorded in Budapest and the brass was recorded in San Francisco.


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## Zhao Shen

willbedford said:


> According to the product pages, the strings were recorded in Budapest and the brass was recorded in San Francisco.


Ah. Well that is unfortunate.

...perhaps they found two rooms that were perfect cubes with no decorations? xD

Center pan vs traditional pan, SF vs Budapest, Audiobro vs Soundiron... I suppose they layer together well enough according to the demos, but there's not that beautiful peace of mind you get when using two Spitfire products together...


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## reddognoyz

I am getting it, mostly based on my experience with AudioBro and LASS.


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## Ned Bouhalassa

And here I thought the cross-grade was from LASS.


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## willbedford

Zhao Shen said:


> Center pan vs traditional pan


Very odd indeed. Sure, both methods are valid ways of making sample libraries, but I'm sure everyone would expect an orchestral package from one company to be recorded in a consistent way!


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## Craig Sharmat

constaneum said:


> Apart from the MIC positions offered, I wonder how is this different from LASS. As for the woodwinds, i wonder whether they'll collaborate with Spitfire or Orchestral Tools? =D



It's quite different, different room, bigger sections, different sound. To me sound (expression) is most important, more than clarity of recording. i am a demo maker and not going to say this sounds better than this etc, I have libraries where people love the sound and I don't and vice versa, it is a personal thing so not trying to sway anyone one way or the other.


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## Anthony N.Putson

Thats a really lovely sound, and the divisi legato, as it was in LASS is lovely. But that price? ....i'd say its £125 over.........


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## jacobthestupendous

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> And here I thought the cross-grade was from LASS.


It might be from them too. SS Brass is available for half price through Soundiron if you're on their Omega plan.


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## Waywyn

I am kind of surprised that everyone is worrying about those libs being recorded in two different halls by just assuming that they may not match ... did anyone ever think about the "issue" that no sample library has ever been recorded with obviously the to be produced section, but also with puppets filling the missing empty chairs? Or did, by any chance, someone researched this and has some proof that it makes absolutely no difference when e.g. an oboe has been recorded with just air (and empty space) between the microphone and the player or a few heads and bodies in between?


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## jacobthestupendous

Waywyn said:


> I am kind of surprised that everyone is worrying about those libs being recorded in two different halls by just assuming that they may not match ... did anyone ever think about the "issue" that no sample library has ever been recorded with obviously the to be produced section, but also with puppets filling the missing empty chairs? Or did, by any chance, someone researched this and has some proof that it makes absolutely no difference when e.g. an oboe has been recorded with just air (and empty space) between the microphone and the player or a few heads and bodies in between?


I assume that when CineSamples recorded, they had all the not actively recording chairs filled with ballistic dummies wearing tuxedos or dresses (in appropriate proportions) and wearing wigs of human hair. Are you suggesting that this wasn't the case?


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## muziksculp

Hi,

Very Interesting ! Didn't have much time to check this out, does it include _Sordino Sections_ ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## chrysshawk

I am surprised at those who worry about others worrying about different recording equipment and space when creating samples.


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## jacobthestupendous

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Very Interesting ! Didn't have much time to check this out, does it include _Sordino Sections_ ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


From their website:
Auto Divisi with polyphonic legato of all divisi sections:

Violins I A (8 violin players)
Violins I B (8 violin players)
Violins II A (7 violin players)
Violins II B (7 violin players)

All divisi sections include:

Polyphonic Legato & Portamento with Speed control of the portamento articulation
Vibrato to non-virato sustains (p,mf,f, fff)
*Sordino (p,f)*
Tremolo (p,mf,ff)
Trills - Key based diatonic as well as chromatic (p-f)
Harmonics (fingered and natural)
Spiccato 4 x Round Robin with continuous and random control (p - f), 4 different Auto Patters to choose from
Staccato 4 x Round Robin with continuous and random control (p - fff), 4 different Auto Patters to choose from
Pizzicato 2 x Round Robin with continuous and random control (p - f), 4 different Auto Patters to choose from
Runs (Major and Minor ascending) 2 x Round Robin


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## muziksculp

Awesome ! 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## stonzthro

Also from the website:
*8 BASSES*

C1–C4 (3 octaves – some articulations may vary)

Auto Divisi with polyphonic legato of all divisi sections:

Basses A (4 violins)
Basses B (4 violins)
I'm not sure I want my violinists playing basses...


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## ysnyvz

Strings and Brass have same mic setup (close, mid, far and mix). Brass is wetter because it's recorded in church. But it's not a problem to me because in usual seating position brass sections sound more reverberant. It won't be like mixing VSL with Spitfire.


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## muziksculp

Do you think this is basically *LASS 3 *& *LASS LS 3* with direct involvement of NI ?


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## tomaslobosk

Okay, I'm officially impressed.
The tone of the recordings is outstanding!


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## romanr

Highly excited & tempted about this announcement... The demos sound outstanding and I adore the overall sound, but man, my wallet... no chance this year, too many tempting libraries in far too little time :D.


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## WindcryMusic

I went ahead and ordered this, too, based upon the demos, the pedigree of Audiobro, the crossgrade offer, and because I hope it will integrate well with the Brass Collection that I already have, regardless of where they were recorded. So, another long day of downloading lies just ahead ...


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## Craig Sharmat

muziksculp said:


> Do you think this is basically *LASS 3 *& *LASS LS 3* with direct involvement of NI ?



totally different outside of some of the same features in Lass like auto divisi.


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## chimuelo

Sold.
I never went past LASS Lite.
Just didn't need to for Orchestral Rock.
Same with PLAY HS.
But I was going to treat myself during the upcoming sales.
Think Id rather just make sure Andrew and his lovely family get as much jingle for Christmas as possible.
He went out of his way with support.
No sense trying to Beaver him down on price.

Cough it up you schmucks.


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## Christof

After listening to the demos I must say that I am disappointed.
It sounds too much "midi".
Is there vibrato control?


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## WindcryMusic

Christof said:


> Is there vibrato control?



I'm unsure. The Articulations page does list "Vibrato to non-virato sustains (p,mf,f, fff)" (sp) as being included with all divisi sections, but I am unsure if that means there is dynamic control over the vibrato level, or if it is just a single hardcoded articulation that goes from vibrato to none. I am hoping for something more like the former.


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## pderbidge

The demos are great! I'm not sure I've heard demos that play with the same agility and speed that sound any "less" midi. I would love someone to point them out to me. I don't think the fact that the brass and strings were recorded in different rooms will have any effect on the ability to blend the two since it does not seem that the goal here was to record a specific "room sound". They probably just needed a decent recording environment with enough ambience to get the proper mic and equipment placement and then took care of the blend of the two libraries during mixdown. As long as the NI team focused on making sure they blend using a variety of engineering techniques (which I'm sure they did) then I don't see it as an issue.
My only issue is I wish they had better crossgrade pricing for Full LASS owners. I keep getting burned on price by buying too soon. IE; I bought Lass lite, decided I wanted to go full just a couple of months later and ended up paying the $50 upgrade fee (ouch). Then just a few months later I considered getting the Lass Sordinos for a crossgrade of $200 and noticed that the new bundle price for LASS + LASS LS was the same price (I think a little less) than what I had paid for just LASS Full! Oh well, I guess that's just how it goes sometimes. I'll still wait for a better crossgrade price on LS before I bite unless I really find a need for it or if this new lib has Sordinos then maybe that's the way to go. We'll see.


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## Zhao Shen

muziksculp said:


> Do you think this is basically *LASS 3 *& *LASS LS 3* with direct involvement of NI ?


No way. IMO (yes emphasis on "opinion") Symphony Series: String Ensemble is a HUGE step back from LASS 2. The versatility, resource use, legato realism, shorts, sampling philosophy... Everything's somewhat inferior to LASS, except maybe the out-of-the-box tone, but even there LASS feels like it has more life. Would love to know what Audiobro's involvement was. Were they just there to script the library, or what?


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## ysnyvz

Zhao Shen said:


> No way. IMO (yes emphasis on "opinion") Symphony Series: String Ensemble is a HUGE step back from LASS 2. The versatility, resource use, legato realism, shorts, sampling philosophy... Everything's somewhat inferior to LASS, except maybe the out-of-the-box tone, but even there LASS feels like it has more life. Would love to know what Audiobro's involvement was. Were they just there to script the library, or what?


Either Andrew and Sebastian forgot everything they know or you're being unfair.

From manual:
Produced By Audiobro: Andrew Keresztes, Sebastian Katz
Scripting and UI Integration: Sebastian Katz, Gabor Valasek
Editing: Andrew Keresztes, Sebastian Katz
Mixing and Mastering: Andrew Keresztes
Instruments Programming and Mapping: Andrew Keresztes, Sebastian Katz
Audiobro Beta Testers: Andrew Keresztes, Sebastian Katz, Craig Sharmat, Willem Van den
Broeck, Jesper Goor Pedersen, Nathan Furst, Brian Ralston, Kays Alatrakchi, Frederick Russ
Session directed by: Andrew Keresztes, Sebastian Katz
Session Producer: Andrew Keresztes
Concept and Design: Frank Elting
User Interface Design: Fabian Ruf
Quality Assurance: Bymski
Artwork: Yvonne Hartmann
Finalization and Encoding: Carlos Ruiz
Product Management: Tobias Menguser, Christian Wachsmuth, Linda Klimesch


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## Zhao Shen

ysnyvz said:


> Either Andrew and Sebastian forgot everything they know or you're being unfair.


Unfair? I'm not trying to say it's a horrible piece of software that no one should buy - on the contrary, I think it's a good library that fits decently into the niche that NI is trying to fill with the Symphony Series. I just don't think it measures up to the standards LASS set. And Andrew and Sebastian are certainly still masters, they are just trying a different approach with this library - admirable and understandable, as I would not be eager to make a library with the exact same style as LASS and ship it off to NI.


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## mc_deli

Zhao Shen said:


> No way. IMO (yes emphasis on "opinion") Symphony Series: String Ensemble is a HUGE step back from LASS 2. The versatility, resource use, legato realism, shorts, sampling philosophy... Everything's somewhat inferior to LASS


And this is based on what... How many hours of use... Were you a beta tester?


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## Bulb

I was waiting to see if there was going to be a Black Friday sale to pick LASS up, as that was going to be my next string library. However as a K10U owner, the $299 price on this is kind of incredible if it's the same thing as the current LASS.

In this thread, there seems to be a bit of debate on this:
Outside of the interface looking different are there any reasons to go with LASS over this, or are they looking like similar enough products to where I would be getting essentially the same thing?


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## ysnyvz

mc_deli said:


> Were you a beta tester?


Must be a secret beta tester, because his name is not on the list I posted.


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## atw

Very nice GUI, very nice brass sound, nice strings sound,...


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## mc_deli

Bulb said:


> I was waiting to see if there was going to be a Black Friday sale to pick LASS up, as that was going to be my next string library. However as a K10U owner, the $299 price on this is kind of incredible if it's the same thing as the current LASS.
> 
> In this thread, there seems to be a bit of debate on this:
> Outside of the interface looking different are there any reasons to go with LASS over this, or are they looking like similar enough products to where I would be getting essentially the same thing?


Based on this thread, you are highly unlikely to get a straight answer. No one has had a chance to use it yet


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## jacobthestupendous

Craig Sharmat was a beta tester. I'd listen to his input on the similarities to LASS.


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## Vin

Christof said:


> After listening to the demos I must say that I am disappointed.
> It sounds too much "midi".
> Is there vibrato control?



Same here.


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## dxmachina

Great to read everyone's comments here. Yes, there is a dedicated "legato with vibrato control articulation".

Sebastian


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## Sid Francis

Yes, have to agree, I waited for that "oh how wonderful, I must have it" moment while listening to the demos and the videos. It´s also sounding "midi" to me, but that might also be because of the nature of the demos: I didn´t like the musical style of even one of them. Perhaps if they presented something less "action" and something more "emotion" ?


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## tomaslobosk

I can't stand when demo videos are all about explanations, features, scripts, blah blah.
I want to hear every instrument, every articulation, every mic position, and please... shut up while doing it


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## IFM

Vin said:


> Same here.


+1 I was hopeful on this but...nope.


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## ysnyvz

Sid Francis said:


> something less "action" and something more "emotion" ?


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## Zhao Shen

mc_deli said:


> And this is based on what... How many hours of use... Were you a beta tester?


If I were a beta tester I sure as heck would not be bold enough to make these sorts of comments. Nevertheless, you have a point, as I am only judging from the walkthrough videos, demos, and work made by other composers who have already downloaded and tested the library for themselves.


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## thov72

doesnt seem to have all the features of LASS, but at that price, its more than understandable.
What I completely dont get is why a developer that just has string libs and a Percussion lib would do a string lib for someone else...its like peeing in your own tea, isnt it??


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## Zhao Shen

thov72 said:


> doesnt seem to have all the features of LASS, but at that price, its more than understandable.
> What I completely dont get is why a developer that just has string libs and a Percussion lib would do a string lib for someone else...its like peeing in your own tea, isnt it??


Depends. It's quite possible they leapt at the opportunity. Sample libraries (especially orchestral ones) take money. NI is rolling in that, and they gave Audiobro an opportunity to make a library with a different style and sampling philosophy.


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## JunoVHS

ysnyvz said:


> Must be a secret beta tester, because his name is not on the list I posted.


For what it's worth, I wasn't a beta tester (and not in the list) but I contributed one of the demos (#6) and Ive been using the library for over a month. Its great! Just spec-wise it's definitely not as complete as LASS, but there isn't anything I tried to do that I couldn't, so I really like it


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## ysnyvz

JunoVHS said:


> For what it's worth, I wasn't a beta tester (and not in the list) but I contributed one of the demos (#6) and Ive been using the library for over a month. Its great! Just spec-wise it's definitely not as complete as LASS, but there isn't anything I tried to do that I couldn't, so I really like it


Thanks for sharing opinion. Your demo sounds nice.


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## Sid Francis

Yasin: thank you very much, much more what I
want to hear


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## kavinsky

JunoVHS said:


> For what it's worth, I wasn't a beta tester (and not in the list) but I contributed one of the demos (#6) and Ive been using the library for over a month. Its great! Just spec-wise it's definitely not as complete as LASS, but there isn't anything I tried to do that I couldn't, so I really like it



Is it possible to replicate those slammed spiccatos original LASS is famous for?


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## JunoVHS

kavinsky said:


> Is it possible to replicate those slammed spiccatos original LASS is famous for?



The spiccatos are awesome, can get quite aggressive


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## gpax

Dragonwind said:


> +1 I was hopeful on this but...nope.


I value all opinions, but have to ask this question (not just of you, even though I’m quoting you), but of all established VI-C members commenting on this, particularly those using any number of string libraries already:

What, exactly, were you hoping for that did not presently exist?


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## Zhao Shen

gpax said:


> I value all opinions, but have to ask this question (not just of you, even though I’m quoting you), but of all established VI-C members commenting on this, particularly those using any number of string libraries already:
> 
> What, exactly, were you hoping for that did not presently exist?


Nothing! For me at least, certain string libraries have certain colors that suit a certain style of composition best. The more string libraries you have, the more versatility you have.


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## germancomponist

Congratulations to NI!
As I can see and more hear, their libs are getting better and better. It seems that they did the very right thing what a sampler-producer and seller can do. To move to this way, to work together with high end library producers.(in LA  ) Bravo!


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## The Darris

Zhao Shen said:


> No way. IMO (yes emphasis on "opinion") Symphony Series: String Ensemble is a HUGE step back from LASS 2. The versatility, resource use, legato realism, shorts, sampling philosophy... Everything's somewhat inferior to LASS, except maybe the out-of-the-box tone, but even there LASS feels like it has more life. Would love to know what Audiobro's involvement was. Were they just there to script the library, or what?


I have to say that comparing this to LASS is ridiculous. Audiobro worked in collaboration with Native Instruments for a Native Instruments product. They really are completely different concepts. The biggest AudioBro fingerprint I see is the AutoDivisi tech to maintain a stronger sense of realism and idiomatic characteristic of the String Section. These products are in two completely different price ranges as well. LASS provides so much more control and customization that I consider it a PRO, top shelf string library whereas this library is more of a entry to mid level tool for composers which has been Native Instruments' aim with their libraries. Yes, they are trying to reach a wider audience of orchestral composers but do keep in mind that to compare LASS to this would be doing both products a disservice since their concept and aims are completely different.


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## ysnyvz

gpax said:


> What, exactly, were you hoping for that did not presently exist?


Well, polyphonic legato and portamento with vibrato control and auto divisi is a pretty nice combo. I'm not sure but probably this is the only ambient (not dry like LASS) library that has it.


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## Zhao Shen

The Darris said:


> I have to say that comparing this to LASS is ridiculous. Audiobro worked in collaboration with Native Instruments for a Native Instruments product. They really are completely different concepts. The biggest AudioBro fingerprint I see is the AutoDivisi tech to maintain a stronger sense of realism and idiomatic characteristic of the String Section. These products are in two completely different price ranges as well. LASS provides so much more control and customization that I consider it a PRO, top shelf string library whereas this library is more of a entry to mid level tool for composers which has been Native Instruments' aim with their libraries. Yes, they are trying to reach a wider audience of orchestral composers but do keep in mind that to compare LASS to this would be doing both products a disservice since their concept and aims are completely different.


I completely agree - they are completely different libraries, which is probably why Audiobro was even willing to work on such a project. My post was a response to a question regarding NI's new library being LASS3, so pardon any confusion that may have caused.


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## Polarity

It has a Repetition tool: probably, a simpler version of the A.R.T. we find in LASS and LASS Lite.
(you can see in one of the walkthroughs)
Sure also this unique feature and the auto divisi scripts made NI go for AudioBro to make the String libraries.


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## gpax

ysnyvz said:


> Well, polyphonic legato and portamento with vibrato control and auto divisi is a pretty nice combo. I'm not sure but probably this is the only ambient (not dry like LASS) library that has it.


I sincerely appreciate the specific answer to my admittedly rhetorical question, and you bring up an excellent observation. For me, the Symphonic Series Brass has added some quite useful features and expression phrases, even as I am already using several other brass libraries including all of the BML Brass.


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## Hannes_F

Congratulations to Andrew & team. I did not see this coming, so it must have been a major effort to do all the work including the programming, packaging, demos, walkthrough, website ... not leaking anything and then BAM let a complete product see the daylight. No gossip, no hype, just a lot of work to get this out sufficiently early before christmas (I guess). A major example of cooperation and organisation in my book. Congratulations again.

Regarding the sound ... as a potential customer I would listen to the demos closely and then decide (as always). It is a logical train of thought that I guess led from the relatively dry sound of LASS to multi-miced ambient recordings, and as such it makes sense. Certainly the mic distances work a bit different when recording sections opposed to a full orchestra in the same room because the 'critical distance' gets smaller, so there is always the danger of overdoing things. Nevertheless combined with the concept of mixing it represents a certain ideal that is presented here, and either you like it or not.


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## Vik

No flautando or sul tasto?
What about marcato – if I'm not mistaken, marcato is only listed as an articulation which is available for the basses? Also - does anyone know if the sordinos are 'true', or just emulated?


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## Baron Greuner

Listened to the demos and watched all the videos.

It's good the way it's all put together. Sound wise it's not great. But that doesn't matter that much when using it in the context of sample libraries. Will probably get it because of the interface.


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## apessino

I have the other libraries in this series and love them - the major point of these, compared to almost anything else out there, is not so much the quality of the sound (which is subjective, anyhow... both percussion and brass sound wonderful in my opinion) and they are certainly not as comprehensive/deep as some of the competition (in the brass you only get the basic instruments... forget about every combination of horns, cimbassos, contrabass trombones or tuba ensembles) but the playability is superb.

The scripting and UI are just on another level compared to most - they make the instruments really versatile and easy to get what you want out of them. It's not just that they sound good out of the box, they play well out of the box.

Just my opinion, of course.


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## paoling

Please don't do the mistake of judging it by the price. Native Instruments has a history of lowering their prices just to reach a wider audience. It just can be a marketing strategy; this library by the way is 2 times the size in GB of the full LASS (again the size is not a meter of the quality of a product).

In my opinion the beauty of LASS is in the not-super-perfect sound, that gives it a unique sense of realism and intimacy that you can't find in many ensemble string libraries. This library seems to me the opposite: it sounds quite smooth and lush and it can surely find other uses too in contemporary soundtracks.

In anycase this approach of building a symphonic collection collaborating with different developers in different places, sounds like a quite strange move, to me.


----------



## MarcelM

i really hope for some vi-control demos for this one.

i was about to buy either cinestrings or cinematic strings 2 to replace my hollywood strings, and this one could be an option when i hear the sound in all those videos... the demos are not that good to be honest.

well, i probably wait until black friday anyway  - this wont be discounted i guess hehe


----------



## germancomponist

Replace your Hollywood Strings? For what reason?


----------



## JunoVHS

Heroix said:


> the demos are not that good to be honest.


----------



## benmrx

This is tempting, although I REEEAALLLY wish the Symphony Brass library was done in a similar manner to this one regarding the number of players and divisi options, OR that Symphony Strings had a larger player count all around to better match the number of players with the brass. It just seems that so far, the NI Symphony is fairly brass heavy.


----------



## MarcelM

germancomponist said:


> Replace your Hollywood Strings? For what reason?


i only have silver and would need diamond because i also want mic freedom... but i dont want to purchase anything from a company which bans me for no reason at the forums.


----------



## Thonex

Hi everyone,

Andrew K from Audiobro here.

Thanks for all the interest in our new library. It’s all very exciting, we’ve put a lot of hard work into this, and we’re happy to see it released 

I’ve read through this thread and there are a lot of questions and comments, so let me try to address most of them by just making some general comments based on some queries I’ve already had.

Some have wondered... are these LASS recordings?… No, these are all new recordings. There are 4 mic mixes to choose from.

SESS (String Ensemble Symphonic Series) was recorded, mixed and programmed by Audiobro and NI provided the user interface (as well as the detailing the feature set). The Auto Divisi algorithm is indeed exclusive to Audiobro.

SESS has a beautiful sound of its own (if I say so myself  ). I personally believe you can never have too many good sounding libraries. As all good mock-up artists know, certain phrases or passages may translate better on one library than another just by chance. Having multiple libraries gives you an expanded vocabulary to express your musical ideas.

SESS has a different sound from LASS, of course, and has real octave runs included as well as different mic positions. But the most compelling reason to get SESS is it's fantastic sound and feature set at such an incredibly reasonable price (especially when you consider that it is a 2 part divisi discretely recorded library on all sections!!). 

*So... why would we release another string library at this price point? Did you abandon LASS?*

LASS is alive and well and will continue to be updated as our flagship library. So why another string library? SESS is designed from the ground up for both the enthusiast and the professional. It’s easy to navigate on it’s simple interface while providing great features – just watch the videos on the site:

http://www.native-instruments.com/e...al-cinematic/symphony-series-string-ensemble/

Keep in mind that LASS has a certain unique feature set with a certain degree of complexity and advanced features that some enthusiasts might not be interested in.


I hope this helps!

Cheers,

Andrew K

P.S. If I don't respond to this thread in a timely manner... it's probably because things are a little crazy right now. I'll check back daily if possible.


----------



## woodsdenis

Crikey I think it sounds awesome, well done Audiobro .


----------



## Hanu_H

I think that the sound is great and it's an amazing value for the money. Although, what I hear from the demos and the videos the sound might be a bit too perfect and polished for my liking. It was same with the brass. But with a right layering of solo strings or other string library it could be great. Also thanks again Andrew for showing other devs how to handle criticism and taking the high road. You rock!

-Hannes


----------



## apessino

The value is just amazing - $300 with the Komplete krossgrade (he he).

Bought it - downloading now!


----------



## The Darris

Zhao Shen said:


> I completely agree - they are completely different libraries, which is probably why Audiobro was even willing to work on such a project. My post was a response to a question regarding NI's new library being LASS3, so pardon any confusion that may have caused.


Right on man.


----------



## NYC Composer

Andrew-congrats on this big new endeavour! 

You mentioned future LASS updates-as a fairly recent LASS full and LASS LS purchaser, I have really only one request for LASS- a non-vibrato FC option. I love the sound of FC, but I would love to be able to choose between non-vibrato and vibrato. I love the smaller sections with FC in the mix as they sound very organic to me, and btw, compliments on the agility of LASS in general-easily the most agile string library I've ever owned. Again, congratulations!


----------



## ZeeCount

Anyone who has this want to chime on how well it blends with LASS? I love LASS and this looks like it could work as a good library to layer with it to give LASS a bit more lushness.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi Andrew,

_*Congratulations ! *_

SESS Sounds Awesome. I Love the GUI design, and overall features. 

I will be buying it for sure since I qualify for the cross-grade pricing. 

As you said, the easy setup and navigation are a big plus, one thing that keeps me from using LASS more frequently, is the time consuming setup time, and more involved setup procedures. 

I also like the sound of SESS a lot, it sounds wonderful right out of the box, (which imho. is another big plus), as demonstrated in the videos. and the various mic positions that allow for additional sonic refinement when needed. 

Thanks & All The Best,
Muziksculp


----------



## ysnyvz

Thonex said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Andrew K from Audiobro here.


Hi Andrew. Can we switch to velocity from modwheel for short articulation dynamics?


----------



## Thonex

ysnyvz said:


> Hi Andrew. Can we switch to velocity from modwheel for short articulation dynamics?



Hi ysnyvz,

Yes, in fact short articulations are all played with velocity. The big dynamics knob acts as a percent velocity attenuator when used with short articulations. 

Cheers,

Andrew K


----------



## Baron Greuner

Where are the videos for all the individual section sounds? Basses and Violas for example>


----------



## IFM

I think we need a walk through video or something that actually shows what these stings sound like. None of the demos made me think I was listening to real strings and that may entirely be the fault of the demos. 

So to early adopters...please give some feedback once you settle with the library.


----------



## ysnyvz

Thonex said:


> Hi ysnyvz,
> 
> Yes, in fact short articulations are all played with velocity. The big dynamics knob acts as a percent velocity attenuator when used with short articulations.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Andrew K



Awesome, thanks. Congrats for library.


----------



## Thonex

Dragonwind said:


> I think we need a walk through video or something that actually shows what these stings sound like. None of the demos made me think I was listening to real strings and that may entirely be the fault of the demos.
> 
> So to early adopters...please give some feedback once you settle with the library.



There are about 9 tutorial videos but it's easy to miss them because the list is at the top left side of the first introductory video. 

I hope this helps. 

Cheers,

Andrew K


----------



## Lode_Runner

apessino said:


> I have the other libraries in this series and love them - the major point of these, compared to almost anything else out there, is not so much the quality of the sound (which is subjective, anyhow... both percussion and brass sound wonderful in my opinion) and they are certainly not as comprehensive/deep as some of the competition (in the brass you only get the basic instruments... forget about every combination of horns, cimbassos, contrabass trombones or tuba ensembles) but the playability is superb.



Symphony Series Percussion? Did I miss something? 



Thonex said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Andrew K from Audiobro here.



Great work Andrew. The auto-divisi feature looks brilliant. 

ps. your signature block keeps fooling me that I have a bug on my screen.

edit: The ability to set up keyswitches, layering and velocity layering also looks great. I was just wondering, is it possible to set up the key switch to respond to different velocities? ie if you hit the key switch softly you get one articulation, and if you hit it harder you get a different articulation?


----------



## murrthecat

benmrx said:


> This is tempting, although I REEEAALLLY wish the Symphony Brass library was done in a similar manner to this one regarding the number of players and divisi options, OR that Symphony Strings had a larger player count all around to better match the number of players with the brass. It just seems that so far, the NI Symphony is fairly brass heavy.[/QUOTE





willbedford said:


> According to the product pages, the strings were recorded in Budapest and the brass was recorded in San Francisco.



As good as they sound (which they do!), unfortunately they don't seem to be thought of as part of the same orchestra recorded in the same hall.


----------



## WindcryMusic

Lode_Runner said:


> Symphony Series Percussion? Did I miss something?
> edit: The ability to set up keyswitches, layering and velocity layering also looks great. I was just wondering, is it possible to set up the key switch to respond to different velocities? ie if you hit the key switch softly you get one articulation, and if you hit it harder you get a different articulation?



One of the tutorial videos on the series showed how to switch between two articulations based upon how hard you are hitting the actual notes you are playing, as you noted. It said nothing about velocity on the keyswitch itself, though ... that's a very interesting idea, but based upon what I have seen in the UI, I have my doubts that it is currently possible.


----------



## apessino

Lode_Runner said:


> Symphony Series Percussion? Did I miss something?



You missed me losing my mind... 

Sorry, for some reason I was thinking of Action Strikes, which I like a lot but of course has nothing to do with this series other than being by NI in collaboration with an external developer.


----------



## rottoy

Somebody page Guy Rowland or Daniel James for a full patch walkthrough!


----------



## Sid Francis

My wish would also be to hear some patches, not fragments or demos but some normal musical lines of the long notes. I am also mostly interested in the violas and celli, not just the violins. So any sound impression will be helpful since I am willing to take the plunge as a crossgrader


----------



## playz123

Sid Francis said:


> My wish would also be to hear some patches, not fragments or demos but some normal musical lines of the long notes. I am also mostly interested in the violas and celli, not just the violins. So any sound impression will be helpful since I am willing to take the plunge as a crossgrader


I totally agree, but sadly NI aren't known for consistently offering those types of videos. I think that in the past too many of us here have heard too many amazing demos only to discover the library is then missing many of the critical patches or doesn't actually have some of what we were hearing. It's only when we get the kinds of walk-throughs in which the hype and other instruments aren't included that one truly gets a better feel re. the suitability of the library, and if it meets our requirements.


----------



## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry..

Thonex said:


> There are about 9 tutorial videos but it's easy to miss them because the list is at the top left side of the first introductory video.
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Andrew K



Here they all are in a playlist:


----------



## atw

I watched all of the videos (including the 9 tutorial videos)
Thank you Andrew K. and all, for the music demos, GUI explanations, features explanations,...
But i would also like to hear some naked demos and *walkthroughs focused more on the sound*.

Thank you


----------



## Lode_Runner

+1 on the sounds. Would love to hear each of the sections in isolation playing through the various articulations.


----------



## LamaRose

Andrew,
The naked violins sound delicate with a lot of presence; almost chamber-sized which is not a bad thing per se. Were the demos run solely through the stereo mic mix? Combinations of the close, mid, far mics would surely thicken the sound. Would be nice to hear some examples. Would also need to hear the other sections before taking the plunge. 
Do love the layout, and the auto divisi script is pretty amazing.


----------



## gpax

rottoy said:


> Somebody page Guy Rowland or Daniel James for a full patch walkthrough!


Actually, Chris Harris, aka The Darris, gets my vote on this.


----------



## Felipe Opazo

i watched the 9 videos this morning, it sounds great! Congrats. I'd also love to hear a proper articulations/Patches walkthrough ala Spitfire. Seems like the only things "important" missing would be sul tasto/ponticello and forced strings (sul G, etc), otherwise the library seems very complete and easy to use. Are there playable runs of some kind included?


----------



## fratveno

Ordered, paid, confirmed, downloaded, installed... But no serial received. German paranoia...?


----------



## DocMidi657

fratveno said:


> Ordered, paid, confirmed, downloaded, installed... But no serial received. German paranoia...?


Look closely in the emails you received from NI after purchase. The serial is probably in there. I missed it a bunch of times when looking due to the formatting of the email. It's right after the part... Here are your download link(s) and serial number(s) for your order


----------



## DocMidi657

DocMidi657 said:


> Look closely in the emails you received from NI after purchase. The serial is probably in there. I missed it a bunch of times when looking due to the formatting of the email. It's right after the part... Here are your download link(s) and serial number(s) for your order


Also you can log into Native Instruments and access your serial numbers if you haven't tried that already. Hope that helps you.


----------



## gpax

In some (rare) instances, NI will manually activate serial numbers for web orders. I saw this in an email and thought nothing of it, until recently when I had to wait two days for one item, and one day for the other before serials were posted.


----------



## pderbidge

Bulb said:


> I was waiting to see if there was going to be a Black Friday sale to pick LASS up, as that was going to be my next string library. However as a K10U owner, the $299 price on this is kind of incredible if it's the same thing as the current LASS.



You probably have your answer after all that has been discussed so far but as a LASS Full owner and not an owner of this library I can tell you they sound different (based on the demos) plus the fact that these are new recordings in a different space and has a sound of its own. 
Paloing said it well in discribing Lass when he said "In my opinion the beauty of LASS is in the not-super-perfect sound, that gives it a unique sense of realism and intimacy that you can't find in many ensemble string libraries." That is exactly what I love about LASS. So if you liked LASS for it's tone, then get LASS because this one won't have that same tone, which some like and some don't. I like it.


----------



## AR

Oooooh noooo, they didn't!!!


----------



## Vlzmusic

Agree with those who didn`t like the sound. And I am afraid it`s price is on the high end by today standards, considering that for just tad more you could get a full multi-mic orchestra with tons of articulations and features.


----------



## fratveno

gpax said:


> In some (rare) instances, NI will manually activate serial numbers for web orders. I saw this in an email and thought nothing of it, until recently when I had to wait two days for one item, and one day for the other before serials were posted.



Maybe it's not so rare... the last step of the order process provided the warning of a a _possible_ manual handling. The same page provided a download link. But there has so far been no email with d/l links or serials, although I got 3 emails, the last of which states that the links and serial have already been sent... huh. Works in demo mode though. As a classical guy, I must say the sound is very attractive...


----------



## Chris Hurst

I also got 3 emails with the serial in the one entitled "Download links for your Native Instruments order".

I was a cross grade, so not sure whether that makes any difference.

I love this library after playing with it for a while. The mic mix can really alter the sound and there is quite a bit of ambience in both the decca and far mics so plenty of options.



fratveno said:


> Maybe it's not so rare... the last step of the order process provided the warning of a a _possible_ manual handling. The same page provided a download link. But there has so far been no email with d/l links or serials, although I got 3 emails, the last of which states that the links and serial have already been sent... huh. Works in demo mode though. As a classical guy, I must say the sound is very attractive...


----------



## muziksculp

exitsounds said:


> I also got 3 emails with the serial in the one entitled "Download links for your Native Instruments order".
> 
> I was a cross grade, so not sure whether that makes any difference.
> 
> I love this library after playing with it for a while. The mic mix can really alter the sound and there is quite a bit of ambience in both the decca and far mics so plenty of options.



Hi exitsounds,

Thanks for the positive feedback. I'm happy to hear you are loving this library, I'm planning to buy it soon as a cross-grade priced library, it is very attractive price wise, hearing some direct feedback from a new user of this library like yourself is very helpful. 

Enjoy it ! 

Any additional feedback from new users of this library would be very cool, and helpful. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## fratveno

exitsounds said:


> I also got 3 emails with the serial in the one entitled "Download links for your Native Instruments order".
> 
> I was a cross grade, so not sure whether that makes any difference.
> 
> I love this library after playing with it for a while. The mic mix can really alter the sound and there is quite a bit of ambience in both the decca and far mics so plenty of options.



The (4th) email with the download links and serial no. arrived 09:10 this morning. (mine was also a crossgrade order).
Very flexible soundwise, very playable, consistent, predictable, smells quality... Can't remember last time I enjoyed a library this much...


----------



## gpax

fratveno said:


> Maybe it's not so rare... the last step of the order process provided the warning of a a _possible_ manual handling. The same page provided a download link. But there has so far been no email with d/l links or serials, although I got 3 emails, the last of which states that the links and serial have already been sent... huh. Works in demo mode though. As a classical guy, I must say the sound is very attractive...


I should have said the use of the word "rare" was a direct quote from NI, via the same email I'm sure you received. I too experience these delays when purchasing the two Brass Series, respectively. The Ensembles took two days to hear from NI, the Solo took one full business day. In the era of digital downloads this seems antiquated to me, particularly as I've been purchasing from NI for over fifteen years.


----------



## DocMidi657

I like this library a lot! and I have all of the string libraries out there. Have used it for about 4 hours. Here’s my initial thoughts.

1. It’s extremely playable.  Not so laggy with the legato. I feel like it plays a bit better than LASS and it definitely sounds and feels different than LASS. Not the same thing for sure for those concerned about that. 

2. The interface and getting around is excellent and makes it very fast and intuitive to work with. Best I have seen in my opinion. You just don’t feel so overwhelmed with articulations and menus when trying to be creative. Less clicking more playing and creating.

3. Mic Mixing is very good. Best I have seen as well. It feels like when you mix with the mics it’s actually doing something with even tiny moves of the sliders. 

4. I cross graded so the price was good.

5. Feels like you can control the sound well under your hands when recording and when you play it back it does not play something else back and out of time. 

6. No buyers remorse on this one 

7. Divisi while holding sustain pedal and switching chords works really well.

Only slight downsides so far:
1. If I were to compare the sound to Spitfire, Spitfire has that "Artsy Vibe Oh Wow Sound" down where this is different, a bit hard to describe and does not have as much depth. Still good mind you and I don’t dislike the sound but I would have to give Spitfire the edge in sound/aura.

2. I’ve had the occasional stuck note but thinking it may be due to an initial release bug..or a bad sustain pedal. 

I bought this and the recent NI Symphony Brass and both highly exceeded my expectations if I’m being quite candid. Because of the interface and playability I think I may use this library first to get the real work of the song done and then supplement with other libraries if I needed to.

Really nice work Andrew and Sebastian!


----------



## Baron Greuner

DocMidi657 said:


> Only slight downsides so far:
> 1. If I were to compare the sound to Spitfire, Spitfire has that "Artsy Vibe Oh Wow Sound" down where this is different, a bit hard to describe and does not have as much depth.



That might be because of the Divis DocMidi.

Yes I thought the interface looked like it was going to be good. Looking forward to hearing some members examples soon!


----------



## DocMidi657

Baron Greuner said:


> That might be because of the Divis DocMidi.
> 
> Yes I thought the interface looked like it was going to be good. Looking forward to hearing some members examples soon!


Yes, the interface rocks. Wondering because NI is involved they can do things with interface that outside sample developers cannot?


----------



## reddognoyz

DocMidi657 said:


> I like this library a lot! and I have all of the string libraries out there. Have used it for about 4 hours. Here’s my initial thoughts.
> 
> 1. It’s extremely playable.  Not so laggy with the legato. I feel like it plays a bit better than LASS and it definitely sounds and feels different than LASS. Not the same thing for sure for those concerned about that.
> 
> 2. The interface and getting around is excellent and makes it very fast and intuitive to work with. Best I have seen in my opinion. You just don’t feel so overwhelmed with articulations and menus when trying to be creative. Less clicking more playing and creating.
> 
> 3. Mic Mixing is very good. Best I have seen as well. It feels like when you mix with the mics it’s actually doing something with even tiny moves of the sliders.
> 
> 4. I cross graded so the price was good.
> 
> 5. Feels like you can control the sound well under your hands when recording and when you play it back it does not play something else back and out of time.
> 
> 6. No buyers remorse on this one
> 
> 7. Divisi while holding sustain pedal and switching chords works really well.
> 
> Only slight downsides so far:
> 1. If I were to compare the sound to Spitfire, Spitfire has that "Artsy Vibe Oh Wow Sound" down where this is different, a bit hard to describe and does not have as much depth. Still good mind you and I don’t dislike the sound but I would have to give Spitfire the edge in sound/aura.
> 
> 2. I’ve had the occasional stuck note but thinking it may be due to an initial release bug..or a bad sustain pedal.
> 
> I bought this and the recent NI Symphony Brass and both highly exceeded my expectations if I’m being quite candid. Because of the interface and playability I think I may use this library first to get the real work of the song done and then supplement with other libraries if I needed to.
> 
> Really nice work Andrew and Sebastian!





Agreed on all of the above. I used the word "homogenized" to describe the SS sound, not better or worse. Different. Bringing up the close mic's will give you more of the LASS sort of bite but still it's a different beast.

The missing element for me is the lack of legato/portamento on the sordino and trems. From the literature it isn't clear that they aren't included. I am using LASS for that. 

Lass has a certain transparency with those articulations that I don't hear in this library. Nice to have both. I wonder if we'll see a LASS update ever. I'm sure Audiobro discovered some new tricks that LASS could benefit from.


----------



## Thonex

Q


reddognoyz said:


> Agreed on all of the above. I used the word "homogenized" to describe the SS sound, not better or worse. Different. Bringing up the close mic's will give you more of the LASS sort of bite but still it's a different beast.
> 
> The missing element for me is the lack of legato/portamento on the sordino and trems. From the literature it isn't clear that they aren't included. I am using LASS for that.
> 
> Lass has a certain transparency with those articulations that I don't hear in this library. Nice to have both. I wonder if we'll see a LASS update ever. I'm sure Audiobro discovered some new tricks that LASS could benefit from.



Hi guys.. and thanks for the kind words.

Since this is a long thread.. I'll recap what I mentioned before on page 5 of this thread:



> *LASS is alive and well and will continue to be updated as our flagship library. So why another string library? SESS is designed from the ground up for both the enthusiast and the professional. It’s easy to navigate on it’s simple interface while providing great features...Keep in mind that LASS has a certain unique feature set with a certain degree of complexity and advanced features that some enthusiasts might not be interested in.*



I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Andrew K


----------



## playz123

Hey Andrew, while you are here, and separate to your role as a developer, great job on the music demos for this library! Really enjoyed listening to them.


----------



## Thonex

playz123 said:


> Hey Andrew, while you are here, and separate to your role as a developer, great job on the music demos for this library! Really enjoyed listening to them.



Thanks for the kind words!!

I had spent so long on programming those strings that when it came down to doing demos, I felt like I was taste-testing a cake after having baked and eaten cakes for a month LOL... I needed a little perspective 

Cheers,

Andrew K


----------



## DocMidi657

Little 3 track improvised ditty with NI Symphony strings. Messed with mics to add a little bite and layered bartok with basses triggered by velocity.


----------



## EastWest Lurker

Congrats Andrew and the Audiobro team for what is clearly another success.


----------



## WindcryMusic

I finally got a chance to try out the NI Symphony Series String Ensemble library tonight. At first I wasn't sure about it, but once I stopped trying to play it as if it was Albion (hehe) and also tried some custom mic setups rather than just the (wet) default, I started getting some very useful results indeed. The auto-divisi is pretty sweet ... I think I'm going to like this. Kudos to Andrew and his team!

My only mild grumble thus far is that I wish the adjustable vibrato setting still worked on the legato/sustain patches when legato is disabled (e.g., when I just want to use it as a sustain patch). As far as I can determine, adjustable vibrato seems to only be an attribute of the legato mode. There is probably a reason for it to be that way, but I was hoping to be able to use vibrato control a little more freely than that.


----------



## jacobthestupendous

Thonex said:


> Thanks for the kind words!!
> 
> I had spent so long on programming those strings that when it came down to doing demos, I felt like I was taste-testing a cake after having baked and eaten cakes for a month LOL... I needed a little perspective
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Andrew K


Not on topic at all, but I was about _this_ close to smacking my work monitor, thanks to your cute little signature animation.


----------



## playz123

jacobthestupendous said:


> Not on topic at all, but I was about _this_ close to smacking my work monitor, thanks to your cute little signature animation.


Yes, that has been Andrew's little signature animation for a long time now, but once in awhile it still catches someone unaware!  I'd miss it if it wasn't there.


----------



## Thonex

jacobthestupendous said:


> Not on topic at all, but I was about _this_ close to smacking my work monitor, thanks to your cute little signature animation.





playz123 said:


> Yes, that has been Andrew's little signature animation for a long time now, but once in awhile it still catches someone unaware!  I'd miss it if it wasn't there.





I try to keep our bugs out of our software... and only in forums 


Cheers,

Andrew K


----------



## Baron Greuner

DocMidi657 said:


> Little 3 track improvised ditty with NI Symphony strings. Messed with mics to add a little bite and layered bartok with basses triggered by velocity.
> 
> I could live with that sound. Not bad at all. Careful with those keyboard runs Doc!


----------



## Chris Hurst

I've got to say, I'm finding this library absolutely brilliant. It is really easy to set up and use the auto divisi, which is making my strings programming so much easier and more expressive than I feel as though I've been able to do before.

I have LASS and whilst it is more in depth than this library, I'm finding that I'm getting much more done quicker with this one and the fact that the different mics do add a wetness to the sound too, which I really like. Although the stereo mix is very useable to get your ideas down. The interface is superb and much easier to use than LASS (in my opinion - I'm not a power user like some of you might be).

Really pleased with my purchase at the cross-grade price and the interface has really made me consider the Symphony Brass library as well...

Good work Audiobro & NI!


----------



## muziksculp

exitsounds said:


> I've got to say, I'm finding this library absolutely brilliant. It is really easy to set up and use the auto divisi, which is making my strings programming so much easier and more expressive than I feel as though I've been able to do before.
> 
> I have LASS and whilst it is more in depth than this library, I'm finding that I'm getting much more done quicker with this one and the fact that the different mics do add a wetness to the sound too, which I really like. Although the stereo mix is very useable to get your ideas down. The interface is superb and much easier to use than LASS (in my opinion - I'm not a power user like some of you might be).
> 
> Really pleased with my purchase at the cross-grade price and the interface has really made me consider the Symphony Brass library as well...
> 
> Good work Audiobro & NI!



Hi exitsounds,

Thanks for the helpful feedback. 

Yes, I agree. The ease of setup, and quicker workflow to get the job done is quite an important feature.

Looking forward to buying this library in the near future. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## kavinsky

I'd love to hear more naked demos, still can't decide if I need it or not
especially interested in legato scripting and playability, spiccs and the overall tone quality across all sections


----------



## Sid Francis

Same here...


----------



## atw

Me too...


----------



## Thonex

Hey guys,

regarding naked demos, my demos are almost naked insofar as there is nothing else but Symphony Series String Ensemble and a little LADD (LA Drama Drums) in each of them:

The 2nd demo (2/15) on the is almost all made up of spic, stacs and runs. The 5th demo (5/15) is almost entirely made of legato and sustains.

Also, I felt very naked when writing them 

http://www.native-instruments.com/e...al-cinematic/symphony-series-string-ensemble/ (click on "SYMPHONY SERIES - STRING ENSEMBLE Demo Tracks"

Cheers,

Andrew K


----------



## playz123

Thonex said:


> Also, I felt very naked when writing them


I hope you won't be offended, but I'm not going to picture that!


----------



## muziksculp

Hi Andrew,

Your demos of SS-SE are wonderful. Some of the demos are less busy than others, the ones you pointed are good to listen to carefully to evaluate the strings in more detail. But I think that some here are requesting a pure naked one patch at a time demo style. (Spitfire Audio does this when they demo their libraries, in addition to fully composed tracks). So, that's what I feel some are requesting from you, or other current users of this library.

I personally like what I hear a lot, and convinced that this Strings Library will deliver, and complement my other Strings Libraries, a very good investment, and value for sure. I will be buying it very soon.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Thonex

muziksculp said:


> Hi Andrew,
> 
> Your demos of SS-SE are wonderful. Some of the demos are less busy than others, the ones you pointed are good to listen to carefully to evaluate the strings in more detail. But I think that some here are requesting a pure naked one patch at a time demo style. (Spitfire Audio does this when they demo their libraries, in addition to fully composed tracks). So, that's what I feel some are requesting from you, or other current users of this library.
> 
> I personally like what I hear a lot, and convinced that this Strings Library will deliver, and complement my other Strings Libraries, a very good investment, and value for sure. I will be buying it very soon.
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp



Thank Muziksculp, I put this request out to NI.


Cheers,

Andrew K


----------



## muziksculp

Thonex said:


> Thank Muziksculp, I put this request out to NI.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Andrew K



Great ! Thanks Andrew. 

Hopefully this will help others who are undecided, to better evaluate it, and eventually buy, and enjoy it. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Spip

Thonex said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> regarding naked demos, my demos are almost naked insofar as there is nothing else but Symphony Series String Ensemble and a little LADD (LA Drama Drums) in each of them:



Maybe "naked" is the wrong word. 

What I would like to hear is the sound of each part not mixed with so much other parts. 

The only isolated sounds/parts are in the video tutorials and, while they are nice to understand the library, it is not enough to hear the color of the strings by themselves.

A simple walkthrough would be really appreciated.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I just Purchased it. at $299. (Cross-Grade). I doubt I could have spent the same amount on any other library, that offers this type of control, great GUI, and other cool features. 

Many Thanks to NI & Audiobro for making this great Strings Library.

All The Best,
Muziksculp


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I'm guessing that *NI* will be releasing the *Symphonic Series :* *Woodwinds* & *Orch. Percussion* as well, to complete their Symphonic Series Orchestra in the future. 

Should be interesting to see how these sound, and what they offer. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Kejero

I love love love LASS -- it's been my main string library for many years -- and have a lot of respect for Andrew and AudioBro (for their innovative work with ART, ARC and so much more), so it pains me to say that, judging from the demos and videos, I just don't like the sound of these strings. I don't feel any life in there at all. I don't hear these strings playing louder, I hear a volume fader going up. There's no attitude in the shorts. And I hate to say this because I don't doubt these people put a lot of energy and passion into this project, but I'm just... completely baffled and underwhelmed by this release.


----------



## muziksculp

Kejero said:


> I love love love LASS -- it's been my main string library for many years -- and have a lot of respect for Andrew and AudioBro (for their innovative work with ART, ARC and so much more), so it pains me to say that, judging from the demos and videos, I just don't like the sound of these strings. I don't feel any life in there at all. I don't hear these strings playing louder, I hear a volume fader going up. There's no attitude in the shorts. And I hate to say this because I don't doubt these people put a lot of energy and passion into this project, but I'm just... completely baffled and underwhelmed by this release.



I never got along with LASS, complex, and time consuming setup, and more work needed to make it sound like I want. I'm quite sure that I will enjoy working with SESS much more than LASS, and from what I hear in the demos, and walk-through tutorials, I hear great sounding strings, not sure what you don't like about them, but since you like the sound, workflow, and character of LASS, then that could be a matter of personal taste. We all differ in that department. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## reddognoyz

Naked strings demo as requested


----------



## Kejero

muziksculp said:


> I never got along with LASS, complex, and time consuming setup, and more work needed to make it sound like I want. [...] I hear great sounding [SESS] strings [...] that could be a matter of personal taste.



I get what you mean by time consuming setup -- I remember spending days setting up all my sections in ARC. When I noticed a while ago that I had missed some articulations in my Violins I C section, I couldn't even remember how to fix that, and I definitely didn't feel like "studying up" watching those tutorials again to figure it out. Truth is, you don't need any of that stuff. Earlier this year I completely changed my workflow and abandoned keyswitches altogether. And LASS is still a dream to work with. Honestly, I barely use ARC at all at this point. Bare LASS, some EQ, and EW Spaces: that's all it takes as far as I'm concerned. Perfect balance between easy-to-use and plenty of controls to shape the string sound.

And yeah, of course it's a matter of personal taste. Heck, maybe a few months from now I'll relisten to SESS in a different context, in a different surrounding, with different monitors... and maybe I'll hear something I didn't hear before. But for now it's disappeared off my radar as quickly as it appeared.


----------



## muziksculp

Haha.. the naked Cello sounds great


----------



## Vik

Kejero said:


> I get what you mean by time consuming setup -- I remember spending days setting up all my sections in ARC. When I noticed a while ago that I had missed some articulations in my Violins I C section, I couldn't even remember how to fix that....


What exactly is it that needs to be set up with LASS which takes hours (or days) which couldn't have been solved by someone (AB?) producing such presets and made them available for everyone? 

I've heard nice legato/sordino stuff from LASS, and I could be wrong about this, but: my feeling is that repeated comments about time consuming tweaking needed before one can actually use this library are holding people from buying it.


----------



## Thonex

Vik said:


> I've heard nice legato/sordino stuff from LASS, and I could be wrong about this, but: my feeling is that repeated comments about time consuming tweaking needed before one can actually use this library are holding people from buying it.



Hi guys,

I just want to chime in about some of the set-up comments about LASS and template setup in general. We hear what you are saying, and we know where you are coming from. But let me share with you what I found... as a composer that has worked on many movies and TV projects, I can tell you that setting up a template is always an involved process (as it _should_ be!)  . There are many, many things to take into consideration: what are the best sounding patches for your specific needs in your template, what will be used a lot, where will they be panned, will they be layered, will they have additional FX, will they be grouped in a specific bus ? do they take too much RAM? etc... etc...

At a professional level, I really believe there are no shortcuts for setting up a good template. Furthermore, templates should be in a constant state of fine-tuning and change (for the better) since projects and technology, sounds, and demands change with time.

That said, LASS can be as easy or as hard as you want to set it up. You can simply load any patch and play. Period. Or if you want to customize it, there is a lot to customize, and that is what gives you a tremendous amount of flexibility. As mentioned before in this thread, we will be updating LASS and it remains our flagship string library. That said, Symphony Series String Ensemble offers new set of sounds with a simpler intuitive interface with fewer options and complexity that we believe will appeal to a broad audience.


Cheers,

Andrew K


----------



## SDCP

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just Purchased it. at $299. (Cross-Grade). I doubt I could have spent the same amount on any other library, that offers this type of control, great GUI, and other cool features.



Also just purchased for the $299 price. I like the sound very much. I'm blending it with other libraries such as LASS and Cinematic Strings 2, and it sounds great. Nice work Andrew!


----------



## EastWest Lurker

Thonex said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> But let me share with you what I found... as a composer that has worked on many movies and TV projects, I can tell you that setting up a template is always an involved process (as it _should_ be!)  . There are many, many things to take into consideration: what are the best sounding patches for your specific needs in your template, what will be used a lot, where will they be panned, will they be layered, will they have additional FX, will they be grouped in a specific bus ? do they take too much RAM? etc... etc...
> 
> At a professional level, I really believe there are no shortcuts for setting up a good template. Furthermore, templates should be in a constant state of fine-tuning and change (for the better) since projects and technology, sounds, and demands change with time.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Andrew K



I totally agree, Andrew.


----------



## Saxer

Is it possible to adjust the CC1-curve? I want the strings to be more ppp (niente) when the modwheel is completely down.


----------



## FriFlo

Saxer said:


> Is it possible to adjust the CC1-curve? I want the strings to be more ppp (niente) when the modwheel is completely down.


I didn't buy the library, but you can always use CC 11 to have even more dynamic response. A niente option only makes sense, when you have something like recorded bow noise, which is excluded by this niente, like with the OT libraries. Well, some people might want more dynamic range with just one CC. That is possible to achieve by a Cubase transformer (or logic) on the midi track. Just copy CC 1 to CC 11 and choose a range. 
Hope that helps! 
F


----------



## Saxer

FriFlo said:


> I didn't buy the library, but you can always use CC 11 to have even more dynamic response. A niente option only makes sense, when you have something like recorded bow noise, which is excluded by this niente, like with the OT libraries. Well, some people might want more dynamic range with just one CC. That is possible to achieve by a Cubase transformer (or logic) on the midi track. Just copy CC 1 to CC 11 and choose a range.
> Hope that helps!
> F


Thanks! Yes, I know how to work around... but I try to layer the Symphonics with other libraries and want to play them as one instrument in VEPro. Just adding the expression function to the modwheel doesn't match the curve in the higher levels. And trying to adjust the expression range in Kontakt (i.e. setting the expression range controlled by CC1 from 30 to 127) was ignored by the library (or I did something wrong). I will try to simply control the Kontakt instrument output level by CC1 and set the range there.
I just wanted to make shure that there isn't just a fader or mapping matrix I didn't find somewhere in the instruments GUI which would make the process easier.


----------



## FriFlo

Just out of curiosity: Am I assuming right, wou want to layer it with VSL DS? If that is the case, I would like to hear the sonic result!


----------



## Baron Greuner

If it's just from _taste_ that layering is done then OK. But if it has to be layered in order to get a _sound_, then that won't work for me imho. I want to be able to get a sound all from one source when writing a track so it's consistent all the way through.


----------



## Chris Hurst

OK. Now be gentle! As a few of you are calling for some more examples of these strings, here is a very quick track I knocked up to test the longs & legato of these strings. Creating sweeps is what I struggle with most in strings (I'm not a very good strings programmer, as I'm sure a lot of you will hear!).

I wanted to test from very quiet up to very loud, so it starts off quiet and builds from there. It isn't perfect but it might help some of you.

It is using the stereo mixes of the Basses, Cellos, Violas and Violins (so right out of the box with no additional mics included). Violin Harmonics used as well. Reverb is the included audiobro 'Modern Film' reverb with a smidge of Valhalla Room on top.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Pretty good I thought exitsounds. What about placement?


----------



## Chris Hurst

Nothing adjusted - even default volume levels for main strings.

Only CC1 data too - no CC11 in that version. So pretty playable right out of the box in my opinion.


----------



## muziksculp

exitsounds said:


> OK. Now be gentle! As a few of you are calling for some more examples of these strings, here is a very quick track I knocked up to test the longs & legato of these strings. Creating sweeps is what I struggle with most in strings (I'm not a very good strings programmer, as I'm sure a lot of you will hear!).
> 
> I wanted to test from very quiet up to very loud, so it starts off quiet and builds from there. It isn't perfect but it might help some of you.
> 
> It is using the stereo mixes of the Basses, Cellos, Violas and Violins (so right out of the box with no additional mics included). Violin Harmonics used as well. Reverb is the included audiobro 'Modern Film' reverb with a smidge of Valhalla Room on top.




Hello exitsounds,

Your demo Sounds Wonderful ! 

Thanks for posting this. My Studio is down for the next few days, I'm upgrading my monitoring system and some other studio components.

I listened to your demo via headphones, my laptop's speakers, and my little bluetooth portable stereo player. The Strings sounded great on all of them. I love the quality of these strings, and look forward to put them into my Strings template as soon as my studio is up and running again. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Stefken

exitsounds said:


> OK. Now be gentle! As a few of you are calling for some more examples of these strings, here is a very quick track I knocked up to test the longs & legato of these strings. [/MEDIA]



Hey Exitsounds. I REALLY liked your demo. I really like the legato and sustains of this library and your demo shows that you can get nice result with it. The sound of the official demovideo's goes along the same way: I liked the auto devisi and the sustains.

What I didn't like from the official demovideo's where the shorts (staccato, spiccato,...).
So I would really appreciate if anyone could show/make an example for the shorts.
Something along the line of "Tron Legacy - Recognizer track" would be great because that's how I'd like to use it.


Tron Legacy - Recognizer track :


----------



## phil_wc

@exitsounds Nice demo, it actually sounds less MIDI feeling than some NI demo.


----------



## Chris Hurst

Thanks for the comments everyone. I'm a bit pushed this week, but I'll try and come up with a short track using some of the short articulations, if I can find a couple of hours.

I'm really enjoying using this library though and it is so easy to set up and use, without having to get 'under the hood' - NI/Audiobro did a fantastic job on the interface.


----------



## LamaRose

The articulation page shows a legato with vib control, but it's not discussed in the tutorials. Is this grouped with the dynamics or can the vibrato be assigned for independent control?


----------



## dxmachina

LamaRose said:


> The articulation page shows a legato with vib control, but it's not discussed in the tutorials. Is this grouped with the dynamics or can the vibrato be assigned for independent control?



There are two basic legato articulations: with vibrato control and without.

Without vibrato control the players use a natural amount of vibrato commensurate to their dynamic.

With vibrato control enabled you get discrete access to a blend of NV to Vib throughout the dynamic range.

Put simply - vibrato can be controlled independently if desired.

Regards,
Sebastian


----------



## Hannes_F

exitsounds said:


> here is a very quick track I knocked up to test the longs & legato of these strings.




Good one, it made me change my vote in the other thread.


----------



## Vin

exitsounds said:


> OK. Now be gentle! As a few of you are calling for some more examples of these strings, here is a very quick track I knocked up to test the longs & legato of these strings. Creating sweeps is what I struggle with most in strings (I'm not a very good strings programmer, as I'm sure a lot of you will hear!).
> 
> I wanted to test from very quiet up to very loud, so it starts off quiet and builds from there. It isn't perfect but it might help some of you.
> 
> It is using the stereo mixes of the Basses, Cellos, Violas and Violins (so right out of the box with no additional mics included). Violin Harmonics used as well. Reverb is the included audiobro 'Modern Film' reverb with a smidge of Valhalla Room on top.




Good work. Library still sounds pretty MIDI/synthy to my ears, unfortunately.


----------



## reddognoyz

LASS has some plug n play sets that are great, if you spend the time to go in deep you can really sculpt the sound and presets. I have always liked LASS and it sits well in my template. I have other string libs and patches that I use as well. I like the sound of the new SS strings and feel they contrast and compliment LASS well. In both Libraries I find the autodivisi keeps long slow articulations from getting overbearing when you are playing chords. To my ear the divisi sordino and trems in LASS are the most delicate available. There are times when I need to keep low level tension going for seemingly endless periods of times, and the transparency of the lass divisi trems have been a life saver, they can be very subtle.


----------



## muziksculp

Vin said:


> Good work. Library still sounds pretty MIDI/synthy to my ears, unfortunately.



Not to me. It sounds very natural, and realistic to my ears.


----------



## LamaRose

When I listen to the first three tutorials, I hear detailed, airy sections with a lot of presence. Very realistic, but delicate/intimate. The sound really blooms (becomes lush) and comes alive with increased polyphony. If this holds true for the other sections, I would say this library was built to write _for strings_ and for smaller accompaniments; not so much for the epic.

So, in general, I'm giving more credence to the tutorials than the demos with regards to the potential of this library. Personally, this is a great fit for what I've been looking for. And at the risk of stating the obvious, the respective divisi sections allow for the creation of even smaller, more intimate chamber ensembles. 

From a pricing standpoint, I really wish NI would provide a small grace period for us non-crossgradable customers to get the said crossgrade price. Even a $100-off, good faith introductory discount would lessen the sting a bit. So how about it guys?


----------



## Dirk Ehlert

Okay guys, here you go...
 
Little fumble through with SESS. Nothing epic, big production etc, just a plain "first hands on look" at the library and its functions. Should be HD in a few mins.
Cheers Dirk


----------



## paoling

Hello Dirk, just out of curiosity: if you are playing a three part chord in the Vln1+2 patch, how the instrument assign a violin section to the notes..? Normally the higher pitches are the first violins, but how can the instrument understand if it should create a V1A+V1B+V2 voicing instead of a V1+V2A+V2B voicing? 
Moreover is there a way to keep a note steady (V1+V2) and let just one part (V2) to move to another note?

I'm really interested because I still haven't found an easy, playable way to implement double stops on long notes on our instruments.


----------



## Dirk Ehlert

paoling said:


> Hello Dirk, just out of curiosity: if you are playing a three part chord in the Vln1+2 patch, how the instrument assign a violin section to the notes..? Normally the higher pitches are the first violins, but how can the instrument understand if it should create a V1A+V1B+V2 voicing instead of a V1+V2A+V2B voicing?
> Moreover is there a way to keep a note steady (V1+V2) and let just one part (V2) to move to another note?
> 
> I'm really interested because I still haven't found an easy, playable way to implement double stops on long notes on our instruments.



Well that might be better if Andrew would chime in on these technical aspects, since I'm not a dev - just a user. And tbh I wondered that myself as well, from my current standpoint, if I would want to go into that much detail on the sound / voice leading I'd load up individual patches for the divisi sections on different midichannels to have ultimate control...


----------



## WindcryMusic

I've started to have major, show-stopping problems with the legatos in this library, in conjunction with the latest versions of Kontakt 5 and Logic Pro X. The instruments sometimes miss notes, or worse, miss the ends of notes and continue to sustain them indefinitely. This isn't happening in every case, but I have a small Logic project (attached) where it happens most of the time on playback, to the Violins and/or Violas with Legato enabled. If I disable Legato, playback appears to always be correct.

One of the weirdest aspects of this is that, when this happens and I stop playback, the wrongly sustaining notes do stop ... but then if I actually open up the Kontakt 5 UI for the instrument, with the sequencer still stopped, those same notes start playing again, until I hit the sustain pedal once, at which point they stop again.

I am not having any such problems with other libraries, nor even with this library when Legato mode is not enabled, and I have tried plugging in and unplugging two entirely different controllers to rule out any issues in that area.

I tried to upload the Logic project file via the forum, but I guess even a "small" Logic project is too large at 45 MB. So I have uploaded it to my personal web space:

http://windcry.com/Legato_Bug.zip

Could some other persons who also have the String Ensemble product try loading and playing this file to see if they experience the same problems (Violin or Viola notes sustaining when they shouldn't, or some notes being skipped). You might have to play it a few times, as it doesn't happen every single time, nor does it happen in the same way on each playback. It should be easy to tell when things are missed or held incorrectly since, right up to the last measure, the Violas are simply doubling the Violins an octave down.

I'm sort of hoping Andrew from Audiobro sees this as well. I've reported it to NI Tech Support, but I am not sanguine about getting help from them.


----------



## phil_wc

I have a question for people who own this library. How can legato strings handle fast passage? Or do they have fast legato?


----------



## fratveno

phil_wc said:


> I have a question for people who own this library. How can legato strings handle fast passage? Or do they have fast legato?



was wondering same and did these bars to check... should give you an idea what it can and cannot do... these are close mics only, dry, with a touch of SPAT...
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43359256/SSSE-fast1.mp3


----------



## Baron Greuner

de_signs said:


> Okay guys, here you go...
> 
> Little fumble through with SESS. Nothing epic, big production etc, just a plain "first hands on look" at the library and its functions. Should be HD in a few mins.
> Cheers Dirk




Fantastic Dirk! Thanks very much for this walk through. I think you covered all the basses very well and your English is perfect.

Liked the sordino Violas sound. Surprised.

Baron Greuner


----------



## Tpulse

Damn, i'm very interested in "NI SS String Ensemble & the brass collection", but now also in the "Albion one", thanx to Dirk  not sure what fits best for my style of music...there's so many options and don't want to spend soo much ££££ :D


----------



## phil_wc

fratveno said:


> was wondering same and did these bars to check... should give you an idea what it can and cannot do... these are close mics only, dry, with a touch of SPAT...
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43359256/SSSE-fast1.mp3



Thanks! 
They can't do it well like some library I found that has no control of legato speed. My solution is use shorts for runs.


----------



## Lode_Runner

Thanks Dirk, that is exactly the walk through I've been hoping for!


----------



## fratveno

phil_wc said:


> Thanks!
> They can't do it well like some library I found that has no control of legato speed. My solution is use shorts for runs.



Just for fun I made another version of these bars... now both Close and Mid mics, all dry. Half the sections replaced with VSL Dimension Strings...no reverb, except a tiny bit internal algo on VSL to match...
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43359256/SSSE-fast-LAY-VSL-DS.mp3


----------



## jacobthestupendous

de_signs said:


> Okay guys, here you go...
> 
> Little fumble through with SESS. Nothing epic, big production etc, just a plain "first hands on look" at the library and its functions. Should be HD in a few mins.
> Cheers Dirk



Great cue and very thorough overview. Thanks for putting this together!


----------



## wbacer

With Black Friday and Christmas coming up soon, does NI usually hold annual sales at this time of year?
This looks very interesting but I'd hate to buy it now only to find it advertised at 50% off within the next few weeks. Anyone's best guess?


----------



## Lode_Runner

wbacer said:


> With Black Friday and Christmas coming up soon, does NI usually hold annual sales at this time of year?
> This looks very interesting but I'd hate to buy it now only to find it advertised at 50% off within the next few weeks. Anyone's best guess?


They do 'Thanksgiving/Black Friday' sales. However, I don't think it's likely they'd include a new release in a sale. Still, it may be worth waiting a few weeks to see.


----------



## Chris Hurst

OK - another very quick track I knocked up to test the short articulations on this library a bit, so some of you could hear what they might sound like in a real world environment. As mentioned before, I'm not a great strings programmer and this was produced very quickly.

Cello Spiccatos were played and programmed by hand, the Violas are using the repetition tool (so you hold a note and it cycles through the round robin's and puts accents on certain notes, should you wish).

A bit of close mics added to those for a bit more bite, but also some Tree & Far for some ambience.

The long Cello and Bass notes are using the long legato and auto divisi.



It is very easy to get ideas down quickly with this library and making it sound good could be done if a bit of time was spent I'm sure. I'm really enjoying using it and it is helping me write very quickly. Would I use it for the short articulations...? Maybe, but probably layered with something with a bit more bite (I have LASS and the shorts in that are great in my opinion).

I hope that helps some of you.

Chris


----------



## Stefken

exitsounds said:


> OK - another very quick track I knocked up to test the short articulations on this library a bit, so some of you could hear what they might sound like in a real world environment.
> 
> I hope that helps some of you.
> 
> Chris


Chris, thanks so much. Again, a great track that I really enjoyed and played several times. 
It also shows what one can achieve with this library and more specially the shorts. 
Thanks for the extra info and assessement.


----------



## Stefken

How would one compare SESS to Hollywood Strings Diamond. 

As a starting composer and (adult) student, I currently have Hollywood Strings Silver, Miroslav Philharmonik and NI Komplete. I can upgrade to Hollywood Strings Diamond for the same price as SESS (or even less as a student). 
I like the Hans Zimmer sound, be it epic or more emotional. 

Personally I like the sustains with auto divisi and the scripting/UI of SESS. 
I think one important goal of SESS is to make an accessible library (both in terms of ease of use and price). 
With the auto divisi it seems easy to create a nice sounding sequence. 
It does a lot of the work for you. 
On the other hand Hollywood Strings has an ensemble + legato patch which is also pretty nice.
It seems that Hollywood strings has more options (Diamond has a lot of patches) but you need to do more work to get it sounding right and the UI is less userfriendly. 

With regard to the shorts: not too fond of the SESS shorts. Like Hollywood ones better. 

I just got myself a new computer (I7 4970K, 16G Ram, SSD disk). 
In the past, there were some complaint with the Hollywood strings engine regarding long loading times (no problem with an SSD) and dropping notes. 
I've had no problems with that but I'm just starting so as off yet I've made no complex sequences that would be a real challenge for the computer). Are these problems still an issue?


----------



## Tpulse

When watched some demos and what all writes about how easy and fast it is to work with SESS (much done with less work) seem to be the very best thing. The sound is beautiful IMO, i've listen to many strings libraries out there and there are many good ones included this one...i've problems to choose what to buy :D


----------



## Hofian

Ok guys Native Instruments just wrote me back. 
For those who dont know already:
1. It is true (sampled) legato.
2. You can control the amount of vibrato via midi-cc.


----------



## Hofian

Do you guys think String Ensemble can soundwise hold up to CinematicStrings2?


----------



## NoamL

Vartio said:


> *why does it sound like strangling cats again?* It still lacks the characteristic thickness and warmth of actual string ensemble. i was hoping to hear some of that in the demos.





Reminds me of when LASS got dinged for its sound too. How many of you actually play strings? LASS and now SSS are incredibly close to the real-life raw sound of strings in a room. 

Some of LASS's competitors sound more glamorous because they have plenty of "makeup" and "Photoshop" applied. I'd rather do it myself.


----------



## IFM

Thanks for the demos guys. I still feel the shorts fall 'short'. They are too perfect which is why it sounds weird to me.


----------



## LamaRose

Coming from the perspective of someone purchasing their first string library, and having exhaustively surveyed everything that's currently available, I'd give SSSE high marks for tone, playability, and versatility, at least to my ears and for my particular needs. My only qualm is the price in such a deeply competitive field. It would be hard for a newbie to go wrong with any of the major libraries, especially with the sales season upon us.

Muchas gracias to Dirk for his walkthrough, and to the other member's demos, which fleshed out Andrew's excellent set of tutorials. Hope to include this library in my soundset in the future.


----------



## WindcryMusic

WindcryMusic said:


> I've started to have major, show-stopping problems with the legatos in this library, in conjunction with the latest versions of Kontakt 5 and Logic Pro X. The instruments sometimes miss notes, or worse, miss the ends of notes and continue to sustain them indefinitely. This isn't happening in every case, but I have a small Logic project (attached) where it happens most of the time on playback, to the Violins and/or Violas with Legato enabled. If I disable Legato, playback appears to always be correct.
> 
> One of the weirdest aspects of this is that, when this happens and I stop playback, the wrongly sustaining notes do stop ... but then if I actually open up the Kontakt 5 UI for the instrument, with the sequencer still stopped, those same notes start playing again, until I hit the sustain pedal once, at which point they stop again.



No one responded to my post above, suggesting either that no one else thinks there is a problem or no one else uses Logic Pro X. Meanwhile, I have continued to experience the same problem, making legatos in SSSE essentially unusable at times. So I've made a YouTube video demonstrating the problem (both for this forum and to send to NI).


----------



## DocMidi657

WindcryMusic said:


> No one responded to my post above, suggesting either that no one else thinks there is a problem or no one else uses Logic Pro X. Meanwhile, I have continued to experience the same problem, making legatos in SSSE essentially unusable at times. So I've made a YouTube video demonstrating the problem (both for this forum and to send to NI).



Hi WindCry,
I have not had a lot of time to use the library but I did mention in my initial post that I was having hanging notes. I too am using latest version of Logic ProX though my hanging notes were happening when I was playing live instantiated in Logic ProX, just noodling around. I need to work with it more to see if it's my sustain pedal but I suspect it's not as I have not had this occur with the many other libraries I own. I'm hoping Andrew and Sebastian see this and may be able to look into it.


----------



## WindcryMusic

DocMidi657 said:


> Hi WindCry,
> I have not had a lot of time to use the library but I did mention in my initial post that I was having hanging notes. I too am using latest version of Logic ProX though my hanging notes were happening when I was playing live instantiated in Logic ProX, just noodling around. I need to work with it more to see if it's my sustain pedal but I suspect it's not as I have not had this occur with the many other libraries I own. I'm hoping Andrew and Sebastian see this and may be able to look into it.



I don't think it will prove to be your sustain pedal. I've duplicated the same problem using an entirely different controller and different sustain pedal ... and also with no controller hooked up to the DAW at all.


----------



## DocMidi657

WindcryMusic said:


> I don't think it will prove to be your sustain pedal. I've duplicated the same problem using an entirely different controller and different sustain pedal ... and also with no controller hooked up to the DAW at all.


Thanks for letting me know WindCry!


----------



## prodigalson

very strange and disconcerting. NI should address this immediately.


----------



## Saxer

I discovered this bug too... seems to happen when note off and note on of the same note are too close together. So it's not usable for note repetitions.

My workaround: faking a note repetition by drawing a short controller-lane-gap into a long note. Not ideal but at least something I can do until the bug is fixed.


----------



## Tpulse

this issue/bug seems familiar..i use the kontakt factory library and i feel that i got same problem.
In kontakt you have the voice handling thing in the options. if you rise the amount of voices how does it work then?

Add a library/choose the tool-icon in left upper corner/go to instruments options/voice handling/time machine pro.


----------



## WindcryMusic

Tpulse said:


> this issue/bug seems familiar..i use the kontakt factory library and i feel that i got same problem.
> In kontakt you have the voice handling thing in the options. if you rise the amount of voices how does it work then?
> 
> Add a library/choose the tool-icon in left upper corner/go to instruments options/voice handling/time machine pro.



I haven't tried. Note that I use the Factory library and several dozen 3rd party sample libraries regularly without ever having had this problem, including at the same time as I was encountering this issue with SSSE legato tracks, so it seems very specific to SSSE.


----------



## Stefken

I have the same problem in the legato patch of the shevannai library. Only in my DAW (Cubase) but not in standalone Kontakt 5. 
Only with the legato patch.

Evidence is growing that this is a kontakt problem.


----------



## WindcryMusic

I doubt the internal legato scripting of the Shevannai library is the same as that of SSSE. So I still think there is a strong possibility that the SSSE legato scripting isn't properly handling the situation when the same note is released and then played again, as Saxer described. I have legatos in numerous other libraries (including the SS Brass Collection) that aren't suffering from any such issues.


----------



## LamaRose

FYI: I had a couple of hung notes with CS2 in Kontakt Player this evening. Running the latest Logic. I suspect some issue with Kontakt's Time Machine and Logic.


----------



## CDNmusic

LamaRose said:


> FYI: I had a couple of hung notes with CS2 in Kontakt Player this evening. Running the latest Logic. I suspect some issue with Kontakt's Time Machine and Logic.


Did that happen with the violas? I've had repeated hanging notes with CS2 violas multiple times on Cubase. 

I noticed the problem occurred only on playback and pausing/stopping the playback.


----------



## LamaRose

I was running through the patches for the first time and honestly cannot remember... but I think it was with the 1st or 2nd violins. Was playing in real time. I'll check again tomorrow and let you know if it occurs with the violas.


----------



## Soundhound

I am experiencing the same issue with the legatos when playing the same notes in close succession. It seems to happen differently each time I stop and then repeat the section. Plays fine, then plays a hanging note, then plays fine etc. Also occasionally, or every third time, it changes the articulation of the second note to a (much louder) tremolo, which then hangs.


----------



## Erik

I had the same issues with (NI) Session Strings Pro. It drove me mad. There was some kind of relation with the _release_ samples imo: when I turned them off it happened less often, but still there were problems and also quite randomly. I thought I had also something to do with the expression map in Cubase: I mean the position of the new articulation in the expression maps lane. I tried sooo many options, but it never disappeared actually. It is too long ago now, I seldom use these strings at the moment, so I can't confirm this for 100%. In the examples here there isn't such a Cubase articulation config anyway and they speak for themselves: this should be solved for all users of SSSE by NI.
A new string library, that hasn't convinced me yet btw, sorry to say.


----------



## Saxer

There were hanging notes in CS2 and Berlin Strings in their first versions, but both got rid of that bug in a fast update. Looking forward that NI & Audiobro will manage that too.


----------



## Vanni

Dear all,
what would you recommend between the Native Instruments Strings Ensemble and the new Albion One?

Let's assume price is the same, what i am looking for beyond sound quality is ease of use.

Thanks a lot,

Vanni


----------



## mickeyl

From the walkthroughs I think Albion has a richer, more defined and lifely sound, although the auto divisi could make a difference -- depending on how important that is to you.


----------



## LamaRose

Totally different packages. If you need sections/divisi, then SSSE is it. Otherwise... Albion gives you a full orchestra, plus pads, effects, loops, etc. And Spitfire is having a 25%-off sale. NADA for NI, and $500 ain't cheap for string section these days. Wait for a sale.


----------



## WindcryMusic

Vanni said:


> Dear all,
> what would you recommend between the Native Instruments Strings Ensemble and the new Albion One?
> 
> Let's assume price is the same, what i am looking for beyond sound quality is ease of use.
> 
> Thanks a lot,
> 
> Vanni



Those are the two main ones I have, in fact, along with legacy Albion 1 & 2. I like both, but if I had to choose just one of them, I'd go for Albion One. Especially if you are lacking the other orchestral instruments that SSSE doesn't provide, but even if just for the strings.

For my purposes I am finding the two to complement each other pretty well. There are some things I can only get from SSSE, divisi sections being at the top of that list, but also more of an in-your-face sound and a few articulations like harmonics. But Albion One is just too juicy to go without (everything sounds great, the spiccatos are just awesome, and the legatos both work more consistently and sound more real than SSSE).

Edit: sorry, I forgot that you asked about ease of use. I'd call that a toss up. SSSE could in theory be a bit easier to use (Albion has an annoying way of keeping controls on the UI that don't actually function for some instruments), but since SSSE's UI is rather flakey at the moment while Spitfire's seems pretty solid, I can't give them the nod on ease of use. Maybe in a few months they will fix up the problems and it will then realize its potential in that regard, but so far it has been deathly quiet from both NI and Audiobro about the issues, so I am not sure whether those fixes will eventually be coming.


----------



## LamaRose

WindcryMusic said:


> ...but since SSSE's UI is rather flakey at the moment...



Can you elaborate about the UI issues?


----------



## WindcryMusic

LamaRose said:


> Can you elaborate about the UI issues?



I think I should maybe take that back. It isn't so much the SSSE UI that is flakey, as it is that the behavior of the actual instrument in response to the UI, in particular the legatos, isn't right (as described elsewhere in this thread). I do also have some issues with the SSSE interface not always being responsive when it is first opened, not until I actually press Play on the DAW for some reason ... but I've seen the same problem with a few other complex Kontakt UIs, so I think that is a Kontakt issue.


----------



## dormusic

Judging by the demos, this library, just like LASS, has an annoying swell on every legato note. Would't waste money on this.


----------



## kavinsky

Am I the only one of the owners who has issues with true legatos?
I am talking about volume/tone jumps, artifacts, swells. Sometimes it feels like something is not loaded or there are no legato transitions at all, sounds very artificial.

I don't know what happened, portamentos are great, but sadly the main legato of the library is somewhat disappointing. To be honest, I expected it to be at least decent based on my LASS experience.

Maybe it's just some technical issue on my end.
I'd appreciate if anyone could chime in


----------



## WindcryMusic

kavinsky said:


> Am I the only one of the owners who has issues with true legatos?
> I am talking about volume/tone jumps, artifacts, swells. Sometimes it feels like something is not loaded or there are no legato transitions at all, sounds very artificial.
> 
> I don't know what happened, portamentos are great, but sadly the main legato of the library is somewhat disappointing. To be honest, I expected it to be at least decent based on my LASS experience.
> 
> Maybe it's just some technical issue on my end.
> I'd appreciate if anyone could chime in



I (and others, I believe) do have issues with the true legatos in SSSE (which are documented a bit earlier in this very thread), but yours sound a little different. Is it possible that you are overloading your CPU and getting glitches because of that? I get that occasionally too, especially with SSSE since I suspect that the scripting is more complicated, but I figure that's largely my problem for putting too much load on my DAW. If you actually render the track in an offline mode (assuming your software has such a mode), do the glitches appear in the resulting audio file, too?


----------



## kavinsky

WindcryMusic said:


> Is it possible that you are overloading your CPU and getting glitches because of that?


Everything seems to be working fine
It appears that the problem is with scripting/recording of those legatos.


----------



## garylionelli

Would be great if in an update there was the capability to lessen the vibrato in the sordino strings. And also to have legato sordinos. Might these be in the works, or is this a finished product? Thanks.


----------



## samphony

Stefken said:


> Hey Exitsounds. I REALLY liked your demo. I really like the legato and sustains of this library and your demo shows that you can get nice result with it. The sound of the official demovideo's goes along the same way: I liked the auto devisi and the sustains.
> 
> What I didn't like from the official demovideo's where the shorts (staccato, spiccato,...).
> So I would really appreciate if anyone could show/make an example for the shorts.
> Something along the line of "Tron Legacy - Recognizer track" would be great because that's how I'd like to use it.
> 
> 
> Tron Legacy - Recognizer track :




If you want to get close to such a sound you could use Spitfire strings. TRON was recorded in the same hall.


----------



## brianbuchanan

JunoVHS said:


> For what it's worth, I wasn't a beta tester (and not in the list) but I contributed one of the demos (#6) and Ive been using the library for over a month. Its great! Just spec-wise it's definitely not as complete as LASS, but there isn't anything I tried to do that I couldn't, so I really like it


Just wanna say, your demo was the demo I listened to over and over when I first spent the time checking it out. Kudos nice work


----------



## Vastman

Any one who is considering this high priced option needs to look at OT's ARK-1 BEFOR sending NI any more money... IMO, ARK kicks it's BUTT and you get way more for the money.


----------



## storyteller

WindcryMusic said:


> No one responded to my post above, suggesting either that no one else thinks there is a problem or no one else uses Logic Pro X. Meanwhile, I have continued to experience the same problem, making legatos in SSSE essentially unusable at times. So I've made a YouTube video demonstrating the problem (both for this forum and to send to NI).





I'm not using Logic, but I've been experiencing a similar issue in ProTools 12.4 (on OSX, El Capitan) though it did not show up until I was ready to mix down. The good news is that I figured out what was causing it and then was able to duplicate the issue you were seeing too (albeit in PT vs Logic). First, I'll start by saying that it does indeed seem to be a bug with the engine. With that said, I can say I didn't see it initially because I was using a rack of SSSE VIs within one instance of Kontakt, then outputting to other tracks per instrument. I was also only using the Stereo Mix rather than the other mic positions. Rack + stereo seemed to hide the bug.

Moving on, when I was ready to mix, I decided to explore track based vs rack based instruments for my template. Immediately, I had hanging notes, volume spikes, incorrect articulations, etc. Muting tracks narrowed mine in on the Viola track specifically, but it appeared to be affecting any SSSE loaded VIs after it in the template. Strange huh?! It gets weirder.

I then decided that by some stroke of luck in the beginning, choosing rack-based was the solution. I reverted back to that copy of my file. I then decided I would open up the other mic positions and mute the stereo mix. More weirdness. This time, the stereo mixes did not mute via the mixer in SSSE on the cello, or bass tracks (which were following the viola track in my template) during standard playback. There weren't hanging notes at this point - just non-working faders. No amount of purging, reloading, starting from scratch, etc could rectify the problem. Pulling every single fader down on the Mixer portion of the cello and bass instruments would not make the stereo mix volume change or make the other mic channels play on those two tracks (Keep in mind this is stemming from this same bug). Only by muting the midi tracks would the track be silenced during playback. I tried changing the CPU core allocation in Kontakt and changing the playback buffer. I tried using memory server and not. I thought it could be Kontakt related since 12.3 required memory server for some reason on PT to avoid crashing, but then it became evident that it was still SSSE related. Out of gas for the evening, I went to bed.

I awoke to find that the PT sessions that I had been newly experimenting with (which used the rack-based VIs) would no longer open. Using memory server fixed this. It turns out, it had something to do with the multiple mic positions being turned on. This bug was not appearing consistently, but using memory server has solved this problem (which may be a PT thing). I should add that neither ram nor cpu are being pushed at this point on my system.

That brings me to narrowing in on the problem. To make a long story short, I noticed on my viola track that auto-divisi and legato indicators were flickering in the UI when the bugs occurred. This seemed similar to you realizing legato was the issue. So, doing some more experimentation, I discovered that turning off auto divisi solved part of the problem. For me, it wasn't needed for this part. In fact, I kinda like using the divisi sections as separate VIs instead of the auto-divisi script. I feel like I have more control over it anyway.

So, with part of the bug gone and new bugs appearing, I dug into the midi file on the viola (where the problem seemed to be stemming from). It appears that when legato is initiated from very very (I mean _very_) tiny overlaps in the notes (not big overlaps), then the triggered legato note rang out at a ridiculous volume and hung there. That's when everything else went awry. The articulations on the viola, cello, and bass tracks were no longer correct, volumes were wrong, etc. So, by either increasing the note overlap or removing the overlap altogether, and also by turning off the auto-divisi script, the bug went away and everything went back to how you would expect it to work. Again, for me, the bug only first appeared when using multiple mic positions in a rack-based VI setup. Viola was my culprit, but I suspect it could happen on any of the instruments. In track-based, the bug is evident before multiple mic positions are initiated.

I am about to try out the same setup track based to see if it is now resolved there. I'll let you know if it is still cropping up for me. In the end, the bug doesn't make it unusable (which I started to fear it may). It just made me find where my playing did not jive with the engine scripting. Hopefully AudioBro will solve it, but it appears to not really be an issue for me now that I know what caused it and all that I need to do in the future is just trim out a midi note if it crops up. For a moment, it seemed scary. But in the end, it really wasn't.

*UPDATE: This did indeed fix the track-based VI bug as well. Fix is a loose term though. It is a solution from an end-user standpoint. In summary, watch auto-divisi and extremely tiny overlaps in notes. You may need to turn auto-divisi off depending on the circumstance.*


----------



## WindcryMusic

Excellent investigation, storyteller! Thanks ... I'll see if your steps can work around the problem for me in Logic Pro X the next time that I experience it. I'd like to think that NI or the LASS folks would find this useful as well for possibly improving upon the scripting, but the way that NI support decided to blame my problem report on Logic Pro X (even though I've heard of people having the same issue in both Pro Tools and Sonar now) suggests to me that they won't be interested. :(


----------



## Trombking

I experienced this bug too with Cubase 8.5. on an windows 8.1. system.
This is what Native Instruments replied to my query:
This problem is known and is already registered as a bug .
At the moment there is no solution for this behavior . Maybe it will be fixed in
a future update in the service center. We can not say when that happens .


----------



## IFM

I'll have to investigate as I haven't had this happen yet but have only had the library for a very short time. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## InLight-Tone

Thanks for figuring this out, it was driving me nuts!


----------



## Jan16

On the other hand, too often countless hours are spent just trying to figure out what went wrong, and it absorbs all the energy and joy you could and should have making music.

It's incredibly frustrating, and sometimes I can't help but feel like throwing the PC out of the window.


----------



## Christian @ NI

Hello,

this is to everyone who is struggling with issues with the NI Symphony Series String Ensemble. I'm sorry to hear that there are bugs that make your life with this library difficult. That said we have been working on a 1.1 update with Audiobro to fix those. The plan is to have this released within the next weeks. Here is a bit more detail to what will be addressed:

_* Added: Tempo sync option for the octave runs articulation 
* Improved: legato tracking in auto divisi mode
* Improved: mod wheel behaviour when playing legato in auto divisi mode
* Improved: legato behaviour when using the pedal
* Fixed: issue causing hanging or missing notes when playing legato_

We are currently in late beta testing, aiming for the best quality possible. We'd really appreciate your help with some first hand feedback on the issues mentioned in this thread to really nail this update. So if you're willing and have the time, feel free to PM me and I'll supply you with an update installer.

cheers,
-Christian

(hoping that this didn't violate this forums rules..)


----------



## brentm

Will there be a solo strings version of this library? Like there is a solo brass one for their brass series. I'm sure I read a post on KVR saying there would be, but now I can't find it. I think the post said Audiobro was working on one but it might not be released through the NI, but rather through Audiobro. Anyone hear anything about this?


----------



## constaneum

Didn't come across any announcement on the solo strings though


----------



## mgpqa1

brentm said:


> ...I think the post said Audiobro was working on one but it might not be released through the NI, but rather through Audiobro. Anyone hear anything about this?



I haven't heard anything about that, but I don't think I'd be a fan of that approach. At first I wasn't too thrilled when it became apparent each section of the orchestra would be produced by different teams (and the different rooms/halls, recording/scripting techniques, etc. that comes with this approach), but I could live with it since the UIs and features (e.g., different mics, articulation handling, etc.) were consistent. Also, I might be in the minority, but I actually like managing software updates via Service Center. But if solo is released outside of NI... and who knows how that will influence (e.g., different UIs?) the teams that complete the series with winds and percussion next... I don't know... I really want NI Symphony Series to feel like a singular, cohesive "whole" product as much as possible.


----------



## gpax

According to an email, it looks like updates for both the Symphonic Series Strings and Symphonic Series Brass were released by NI today (via the Service Center): 

Free updates are now available for the SYMPHONY SERIES line of instruments. The updates include improved performance features, bug fixes, and additions based on your feedback.

The updates include:

*SYMPHONY SERIES – STRING ENSEMBLE 1.1:*

Added: Tempo sync option for the octave runs articulation 
Improved: Legato tracking in auto divisi mode
Improved: Mod wheel behavior when playing legato in auto divisi mode
Improved: Legato behavior when using the pedal
Fixed: Issue causing hanging or missing notes when playing legato

*SYMPHONY SERIES – BRASS SOLO and BRASS ENSEMBLE 1.1:*

Added: Velocity sensitivity for staccato articulations
Fixed: Issue causing hanging events when playing repeated notes
Fixed: Issue with cropped notes in duet legato mode
Fixed: Loading issues on certain systems


----------



## C-Wave

Although I only have Komplete Ultimate, I got the same email. I am interested in these libraries and was waiting for some users feedback if above mentioned bugs were really resolved.
Thanks!


----------



## bozmillar

well, I don't know if this is the case for everybody, but I just updated and now the mod wheel doesn't work correctly on the legato vibrato control patch. Actually, messing with it a bit more, the non-vibrato patches are quite screwy now. I didn't have this issue before.

I can give more details if anybody needs it, but basically, the mod wheel sticks and won't turn down on certain notes. I'm only noticing it on the non-vibrato samples. I haven't checked anything else extensively.

The legato patch works fine for me, which I guess is ok because the non-vibrato legato samples have always been super clicky/odd sounding.


----------



## WindcryMusic

bozmillar said:


> well, I don't know if this is the case for everybody, but I just updated and now the mod wheel doesn't work correctly on the legato vibrato control patch. Actually, messing with it a bit more, the non-vibrato patches are quite screwy now. I didn't have this issue before.
> 
> I can give more details if anybody needs it, but basically, the mod wheel sticks and won't turn down on certain notes. I'm only noticing it on the non-vibrato samples. I haven't checked anything else extensively.
> 
> The legato patch works fine for me, which I guess is ok because the non-vibrato legato samples have always been super clicky/odd sounding.



I just gave the patched SSSE violins a quick spin, and after reading your message, I concentrated on the legato non-vibrato patch that you referenced. I personally didn't encounter what I think you've described ... the mod wheel and the CC I'd assigned to vibrato both seemed to work as expected, including the dynamics changes on the non-vibrato patches (both with 30 unison violins and with smaller divisi sections selected). I didn't notice any "stickiness" myself, although I did note that the 1A Violins in particular sound kind of "clicky" (as you say) when the vibrato amount is pulled down. The other divisi sections, as well as the combined sections, sound better overall to me, though, so I'm not too worried about it.


----------



## bozmillar

Yeah, I restarted kontakt and not I can't replicate the issue. Looks like there was just something funky going on. The levels and legato on the non-vibrato samples are still weird, but that was the same in the previous issue. I'm happy just sticking with the vibrato only legato patch.


----------



## José

Greetings! I am a novice working with sound libraries and although I can input music using a keyboard, I am not used to use keyswitches while playing. I will be using Symphonic Series String Ensemble to approximate an acoustic recreation of the Strings section in an orchestral setting. Nothing fancy or epic. I will appreciate any help regarding the following questions:

Is it better to setup a template according to different articulations (legato, staccato, pizz., etc) and input to the DAW the different phrases?

Will it be more effective to input the music (individual Violins, Violas, Cellos and Basses sections) and then assign keyswitches for the different articulations?

In terms of Unisons: Will it be better to input separate Violins I and Violins II (which will give similar but “different” performances) or use the full violin section patch (only one performance but possibly “richer” in sound)?

For extensive divisi writing: Will it be better to input separate Violins I (A & B) and Violins II (A & B) for a total of four performances or trying to input both lines using only the Violins I and Violins II patches with auto divisi turn on?

Anticipated thanks for your time and advise!!!


----------



## bap_la_so_1

José said:


> Is it better to setup a template according to different articulations (legato, staccato, pizz., etc) and input to the DAW the different phrases?


It depends on your workflow, but i personally prefer the "one patch for all" which i can change articulations on the fly via keyswitchs, midi cc or velocities



José said:


> Will it be more effective to input the music (individual Violins, Violas, Cellos and Basses sections) and then assign keyswitches for the different articulations?


Thats the way i do it, but again it depends. If you feel that you couldnt get through the part with certain arti feel and sound



José said:


> In terms of Unisons: Will it be better to input separate Violins I and Violins II (which will give similar but “different” performances) or use the full violin section patch (only one performance but possibly “richer” in sound)?


Again, it depends on your workflow. With Lass, i usually do 6 different performances for violins. It doesnt sound richer or lusher to me, but "fuller". Same goes with Sable



José said:


> For extensive divisi writing: Will it be better to input separate Violins I (A & B) and Violins II (A & B) for a total of four performances or trying to input both lines using only the Violins I and Violins II patches with auto divisi turn on?


That would break the whole point of the amazing auto divisi script of the library. However, if the violins 2 or the violins a or b calls for different articulation in divisi writing (ex: v1 a is legato, v1 b is stac, v2 is pizz), breaking them all down to single patch is the only way to do it


----------



## bap_la_so_1

I just got my hands on this library, tried at my friends' place and here is my opinion:

-The initial impression was that this lib was really easy to work with and very quick to put down ideas and stuffs
-Articulations page is amazing. It has all the fundamental ones. The shorts are a bit low in volume IMO
-The sound was ... a bit let down for me. It does not sound like LASS (raw) or Spitfire's (lush) obviously, but it does not have it own characteristics. Though, it still sounds good, has many ways to mix with the mixers and easy to blend with other libs, I expected more from NI
-About Auto Divisi: Work fine, though I prefer working with individual divisi sections like LASS, but this is a great features that I think every orchestral library must have (except for perc ....). I wish It has individual V1 and V2 patches with A B and C sections, not just 2.
-The lib itself is more resources demanding than LASS. You need a SSD for this one. I couldnt get away with just a 7200rpm HDD. CPU usage is fine. 30-ish gbs are great for a multi-mics and articulations lib (take that Spitfire and Orchestral Tools)

Overall, IMO, this is a great library. You couldnt go wrong with this. The price is worth mentioning though. Although it still shorts in some aspects, it is a great effort from NI and Audiobro. I hope to see the aforementioned divisi in the next update.


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## storyteller

Not sure if this is a bug or not with the library or if there is something else going on with my setup - but in the String Ensemble patch > Sustains > Ensemble B, the basses do not seem to play the sustain samples above 92% on the Dynamics Fader. 91% is super soft. 90% and below seems to play just fine though. The release samples ARE triggered above 91%, but not the main sustains. Again, it is only under Ensemble B. It applies to all of the mic positions. Any one else have this same situation occurring? I've batch re-saved the library and done everything I know to do...

Also - when I play back midi with Ensemble B > Sustains selected within the String Ensemble patch, the entire playback seems to only trigger release samples. The sustains will play with the keyboard (aside from the basses above 91%), but not upon playback. My DAW is Protools 12.5. Any insight would be appreciated.

Edit: Also, I should say that the voice count goes up (as if the samples are playing), but the samples do not play above 91% in the bass section.


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## WindcryMusic

storyteller said:


> Not sure if this is a bug or not with the library or if there is something else going on with my setup - but in the String Ensemble patch > Sustains > Ensemble B, the basses do not seem to play the sustain samples above 92% on the Dynamics Fader. 91% is super soft. 90% and below seems to play just fine though. The release samples ARE triggered above 91%, but not the main sustains. Again, it is only under Ensemble B. It applies to all of the mic positions. Any one else have this same situation occurring? I've batch re-saved the library and done everything I know to do...
> 
> Also - when I play back midi with Ensemble B > Sustains selected within the String Ensemble patch, the entire playback seems to only trigger release samples. The sustains will play with the keyboard (aside from the basses above 91%), but not upon playback. My DAW is Protools 12.5. Any insight would be appreciated.
> 
> Edit: Also, I should say that the voice count goes up (as if the samples are playing), but the samples do not play above 91% in the bass section.



I finally got around to checking on this, and unfortunately I can confirm the first issue with the basses in the String Ensemble patch (Ensemble Divisi B): the bass sustains play fine up to a velocity of 115, then velocity 116 has a very soft sustain, and any velocity from 117 and up seems to be silent until the release sample is triggered when the key is released.

However, I cannot confirm the 2nd issue ... my playback seems to be the same as what I got while recording, i.e., only the basses above a certain velocity are misbehaving.

I'd not noticed this before because I haven't made much use of the Ensemble patch, and especially not in Divisi mode (generally if I want divisi sections, I'm going to be using the individual section patches in the first place).


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## storyteller

WindcryMusic said:


> I finally got around to checking on this, and unfortunately I can confirm the first issue with the basses in the String Ensemble patch (Ensemble Divisi B): the bass sustains play fine up to a velocity of 115, then velocity 116 has a very soft sustain, and any velocity from 117 and up seems to be silent until the release sample is triggered when the key is released.
> 
> However, I cannot confirm the 2nd issue ... my playback seems to be the same as what I got while recording, i.e., only the basses above a certain velocity are misbehaving.
> 
> I'd not noticed this before because I haven't made much use of the Ensemble patch, and especially not in Divisi mode (generally if I want divisi sections, I'm going to be using the individual section patches in the first place).



Hey thanks for looking into it.  That's unfortunate, but I'm glad to know it isn't my setup. I had never really dug into Divisi B on the Ensembles patch either until I was trying to compare CSS to SSSE's smaller Divisi Ensembles due to the demo CSS midi files arrangements. Not to make this a comparison thread - but I really like SSSE's flexibility in this regard - and its comparative sound. As for the second part of the bug I mentioned on playback issues, I'm thinking it may be something on my end (maybe with PT12.5). It certainly isn't consistent on when it appears, so I'll investigate that in depth at a later time. I hope they fix the missing bass samples though. But thanks for following up on my post.


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## Levitanus

May I bring one message to the old thread? 


Impression is very ambiguous. I can't understand what auditory it was made for. For juniors or for the sketch-work it's too huge, for pro.. Useless for the first look. From one side very easily and well-sounding sketch can be made from one keyboard. From the other, for complicated project it has very strange logic decisions and limitations. More than, in huge amount. I've been forced to write multi-script with 1927 lines for make it work at the right direction. Pity, but some things can't be fixed by the multi:

release - the most uncomfortable thing in the library. Instead humanely note-off controlling (logically to make spiccatiss from spiccato is play shorter as in the LASS) we have to make things be done via controller, more than BEFORE the note has been started. 

the same problem with attack. But it was rewritten by the multi for different types of control.

Trills and Runs. Epic fail. Why changing the type of trills and runs has to be by menu? It can't be automated. And if we take two trills articulation slots in one instrument and want to change one to major and one for minor - we can't. They are connected. (fixed by the multi)

AutoDIVISI and Legato. I can't understand how does autodivisi work. If i hear the transitions - they moved from absolutely random notes. With the shorts avtodivisi can kill the kontakt with a host by endless cycles. Divisi was completely rewritten in the multi. Legato sounds not bad but sounds like strange detache. Or mix between detache with portamento. Speed of portamento is height and can be only rose. But with average lyric it sound not bad 
The second violins sounds dryer than other section, far mics have been risen.
Runs synchronized with a host to one quarter per run. It isn't able to turn it of. Staccato must be mixed during the mocap.
There're not trills of VC, but they're really needful.
These are my negatives.

Positives:

Great sound, i amazed!

Brightness. I understand that it is just EQ, but how does it work!!!

Slam on shorts. Chemistry again, but amazing. Like compression+distortion, able to easy adding presence for short fragments, fade in the tail of pizz or either hide. bravo 
Library allow to make simple things easy and glad for use, instead of other libraries. And it will sound cool.
Size. 32ГБ for playable strings in our times - record.

After building the multi work became easy and pleasure. Here is fragment made in less then 3 ours within script bug-fixing.Only SSSE used. It can be self-sufficient, but with the first touch I was in culture shock and full of disappointness.
here are the multis, and here is manual. I'll translate it in an our.

[AUDIOPLUS=http://vi-control.net/community/attachments/%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%84%D1%8C%D0%B5%D0%B2-mp3.6019/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## A.P.

Hi everyone,

since there is already this big SSSE thread I want to report a bug I just posted on the NI-Forum and sent to NI-Support:

Hi everyone,
I am encountering serious Problems with the SSSE Mixer Page in Kontakt (5.x.x, 5.5.x and 5.6.x) and Logic Pro X (10.2.4). It`s a long time that this happens now and the 1.1 Update that I already did some time ago, did not resolve the issue.

The Mixer Page randomly hangs on after reopening Projects. The issue resolves in the mixer-page to be inactive. The instrument is playing back but changing the mixer (volume and mics) settings does not change the sample pool or the sound. The playback seems to hang on, although it acts on mod wheel and other automations, the sample playback is much louder or unnatural (somehow normalized). After re-opening projects I can only get rid of this error by reloading the patches every time, which is annoying when you have large orchestral templates to work. The error occurs when only one patch is loaded and/or in multis.

Apart from this Problem I encountered issues with the balancing of the Sections, especially in the Violin Section. I made myself single divisi patches (leg/short/trem) and I can't understand why Vls1 B are nearly half as loud as the Vls2 B section (8 vs. 7). And when I look at the seating-chart on NI-site it doesn't seem they were sat behind the A-Sections…

Maybe someone has similar troubles with this library and has found solutions or other workarounds for the Mixer Page problem…

I will report this to NI-Support too, in hope they`ll fix problems in the near future.

Regards,

A.P.


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## Levitanus

Don't anyone know where is the problem? Took the last year project again with the subject. And all legato patches of SSSE in the kontakt 5.6 take more voices than should. Every legato note triggers 3 time more samples than should and sounds VERY LOUD. Can't spent time for replacing it by the other lbrary...


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## kavinsky

Levitanus said:


> Don't anyone know where is the problem? Took the last year project again with the subject. And all legato patches of SSSE in the kontakt 5.6 take more voices than should. Every legato note triggers 3 time more samples than should and sounds VERY LOUD. Can't spent time for replacing it by the other lbrary...


5.6 had this problem
NI adressed and resolved it with 5.6.1, check the changelog


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## A.P.

kavinsky said:


> 5.6 had this problem
> NI adressed and resolved it with 5.6.1, check the changelog


Thank you for this info! But can't find SSSE mentioned in the info sheet of the service center updater or Internet. Could you post the Link?
And as I still use Logic 9 for some projects and need the Purge all option I am not willed to update (I updated to both 5.6 and 5.6.1 some time ago, but downgraded again because it did not solve the playback/mixer hang on!)
I thought I solved it by replacing all my divisi-patches in my divisi-Multis and re-save the multis again. But this fix only solved it for the project I was working on. Working on new Projects now let it happen again. Unfortunately I reported my solution to NI-Support and closed the request…


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## Levitanus

kavinsky said:


> resolved it with 5.6.1


i definitely updated to it Sheet, yep ) My friend said to me, that no reason to update from 6.0 to 6.1. And i believed in that, because of the fail with updating to 5.6.0 
But oh, the Lord,he works in mysterious ways. Project has been rejected. On religious cause i think :D


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## ctsai89

what do u guys think about this opinion i have:

symphony series strings honestly could be just as good as berlin strings or CSS if there's a way to control the start of each legato (hard attack, medium, soft) like what spitfire and berlin strings have been doing. 

I've tried it on my friend's computer and I have to say it's a really good library hence must be why NI chose to be included in their pack. 

All that it's missing is the true legato attacks..


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## kavinsky

ctsai89 said:


> what do u guys think about this opinion i have:
> 
> symphony series strings honestly could be just as good as berlin strings or CSS if there's a way to control the start of each legato (hard attack, medium, soft) like what spitfire and berlin strings have been doing.
> 
> I've tried it on my friend's computer and I have to say it's a really good library hence must be why NI chose to be included in their pack.
> 
> All that it's missing is the true legato attacks..


there's a lot more that's missing. the product is honestly pretty weak
the amount of RR's for the short arts is just painful, feels like I'm back in 2003 using EWQLSO


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## WindcryMusic

ctsai89 said:


> what do u guys think about this opinion i have:
> 
> symphony series strings honestly could be just as good as berlin strings or CSS if there's a way to control the start of each legato (hard attack, medium, soft) like what spitfire and berlin strings have been doing.



I think SSSE has at least one additional problem, in that it is recorded very wet (even on the close mics) in a space that doesn't sound as good as Teldex (Berlin series), Air Lyndhurst (Spitfire) or even Trackdown (CSS). I feel like I have to work harder to make SSSE sound good, including mostly limiting myself to using the close mics and then adding space via effects, rather than using the recorded space, as well as bringing in a heavy dose of EQ.


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## ctsai89

WindcryMusic said:


> I think SSSE has at least one additional problem, in that it is recorded very wet (even on the close mics) in a space that doesn't sound as good as Teldex (Berlin series), Air Lyndhurst (Spitfire) or even Trackdown (CSS). I feel like I have to work harder to make SSSE sound good, including mostly limiting myself to using the close mics and then adding space via effects, rather than using the recorded space, as well as bringing in a heavy dose of EQ.



tbh nothing will sound better (classic, hermanesque, realistic) than air Lyndhurst. My full orchetsral template is 90% spitfire. The trumpet solo and a2 from spitfire just isn't perfect and no fortissimo recorded for some reason.



kavinsky said:


> there's a lot more that's missing. the product is honestly pretty weak
> the amount of RR's for the short arts is just painful, feels like I'm back in 2003 using EWQLSO



Honestly though SSSE other wise is really really consistent and ideal. I honestly don't need that much RR i can live with 2 one for down bow one for up bow. 4 would be nice. But that's not really as severe as when CSS (im a big fan of its sound by the way) failed to give knobs to control legato speed forcing us to hit the keybaord really hard just to get an immediate legato

SSSE is extremely playable and consistent but missing a few things that could easily send it its way to compete with SSS, CSS, BS.

why do sample library makers always leave out something in a library thus making it incomplete? they really all do that on purpose so that we would buy more libraries and in the end they're helping each other out? suspicious i am..


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## Levitanus

ctsai89 said:


> as good as berlin strings


Nothing can be better


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## Batrawi

ctsai89 said:


> why do sample library makers always leave out something in a library thus making it incomplete? they really all do that on purpose so that we would buy more libraries and in the end they're helping each other out? suspicious i am..



I was just wondering the same thing! And what makes you even more angry is that what they leave is something minor but still urge you to go and buy a whole new library


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## ctsai89

Batrawi said:


> I was just wondering the same thing! And what makes you even more angry is that what they leave is something minor but still urge you to go and buy a whole new library



exactly

well, actually not so much "minor" but something "major" but can be so easily remedied.


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## danwool

SSSE is one of the instruments in KOMPLETE 11 Ultimate that has me considering upgrading. One thing isn't clear about this library. Can auto-divisi be used to create a smaller sounding chamber ensemble, or do the smaller sections only kick in when you play multiple notes? Thx.


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## Vovique

Please remember that only Symphony Essentials are included in Komplete 11 - no auto-divisi (no division at all to be precise), very limited articulation set etc. See the chart at NI. Full strings package is sold as a separate product for $299 (for Komplete owners).


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## danwool

Ah. You're right. I thought Ultimate included the full versions of all the SS libraries, but yeah it's just the Essentials. Thanks for that! So Komplete Ultimate is neither. ...still curious about the auto-divisi question though


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## WindcryMusic

danwool said:


> Ah. You're right. I thought Ultimate included the full versions of all the SS libraries, but yeah it's just the Essentials. Thanks for that! ...still curious about the auto-divisi question though



Yes, the full SSSE gives you the option to choose only a limited group of players to play the notes, even on just single notes.


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## ScoringFilm

Don't know if this has already been reported, however:

If I alter/edit the default Articulation Slots, when I re-open a project the articulation that is highlighted/selected at the time, always reverts back to Legato.

Also, if an instrument/patch is resaved when on the Mixer or Setup pages, the Legato controls from the Performance Tab show as well.

This seems to be a simple fix of not having persistence/read persistence for the above variables in the script. I'm on version 1.4.2


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## ScoringFilm

ScoringFilm said:


> Don't know if this has already been reported, however:
> 
> If I alter/edit the default Articulation Slots, when I re-open a project the articulation that is highlighted/selected at the time, always reverts back to Legato.
> 
> Also, if an instrument/patch is resaved when on the Mixer or Setup pages, the Legato controls from the Performance Tab show as well.
> 
> This seems to be a simple fix of not having persistence/read persistence for the above variables in the script. I'm on version 1.4.2


I guess this has been abandoned and won't ever get fixed!


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## parapentep70

ScoringFilm said:


> I guess this has been abandoned and won't ever get fixed!


I am not sure, but I think I fixed it by actually WRITING the corresponding keyswitch (one of those low notes) in the first bar of the MIDI track to guarantee it starts with the right articulation.

My first large project using a library with keyswitched articulations was Symphony Series. At this time I assumed (possibly wrong) that this could be a necessary standard practice.


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## ScoringFilm

@parapentep70 the issue is that the articulation gets overwritten with the default legato regardless of which slot it is in; it's a very simple fix for the scripter!

This is the GUI after my other point above; again a simple fix:


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## ScoringFilm

I just had another look at this and applied the v1.4.2 update from 2019 again; it is fixed!

I think what happened was that the old resources folder (nkr) was not overwritten when I first updated and this obviously contains the updated scripts. I was wrongly assuming that the instrument files (nki) were the updates.

3 years of scratching my head! 🤦‍♂️


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## parapentep70

ScoringFilm said:


> @parapentep70 the issue is that the articulation gets overwritten with the default legato regardless of which slot it is in; it's a very simple fix for the scripter!
> 
> This is the GUI after my other point above; again a simple fix:


OK, I see, I thought the problem was different. TBH I don't remember if I faced the same or not, it was a while ago... And I struggled with everything becasuse a number of things were new to me.
========
[After your last post] Glad that you solved it and glad that there was not such a big bug in this library!
Thanks for sharing.


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