# Best Choir VST?



## hereformusic (Dec 29, 2020)

What VST is considered to be the best for choirs, is it East West Symphonic Choirs?


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## lettucehat (Dec 29, 2020)

There's a thread right below yours that's covering the topic pretty well, but the short version is that it's definitely not Symphonic Choirs. Choirs have come a long way since then, even though it's a great library.

There's no single choir library that can do it all, so what kind of uses did you have in mind?


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## hereformusic (Dec 30, 2020)

lettucehat said:


> There's a thread right below yours that's covering the topic pretty well, but the short version is that it's definitely not Symphonic Choirs. Choirs have come a long way since then, even though it's a great library.
> 
> There's no single choir library that can do it all, so what kind of uses did you have in mind?


Was looking for one that does the most compared to other VSTs (adult male and female voices, word builder etc.) and is good quality.
I don't like have 3 kinds of VSTs that do similar things, VSTs take a lot of space...


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## Drundfunk (Dec 30, 2020)

Cinesamples Voxos? I don't have it so I can't comment further on it regarding strengths and weaknesses, but it also has a boys choir included and is currently on sale for $299. So if you are looking for a all-in-one-solution to save SSD space it might be an option. Doesn't have a word builder tho, as far as I know, but there are not many choir libraries with a word builder anyway.


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## lettucehat (Dec 30, 2020)

If you insist on a worldbuilder, then I guess Hollywood Choirs is the way to go. But it's generally considered an overrated feature. While there is no library that can do it all, Requiem Pro on deep sale ($100-$150 is possible) might be a solid choice. Otherwise consider Wotan+Freyja, though you just missed a good sale for BF. No matter what, you need to listen to each one to see if the voices themselves sound good to you.


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## jaketanner (Dec 30, 2020)

Drundfunk said:


> Cinesamples Voxos? I don't have it so I can't comment further on it regarding strengths and weaknesses, but it also has a boys choir included and is currently on sale for $299.


Actually cheaper to do the choir bundle with Voices Of War for $251


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## Drundfunk (Dec 30, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Actually cheaper to do the choir bundle with Voices Of War for $251


Even better! Maybe the op can find a thread or two about it here on VIC.

Edit: But two choirs obviously means more harddrive space


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## jcrosby (Dec 30, 2020)

Ultimately world builders don't work well. (IMO They don't work at all!) The garble that comes out of attempting to make EW SC say something sounds ridiculous. Not to mention the silly "language" you have to constantly refer back to in order to try and make it work is ludicrous. And the implementation is just way to slow and crippling to work with on any kind of deadline project.

And, ultimately unless you need to write a piece focused on intelligible syllables the syllables themselves rarely matter as you typically can't hear them clearly in a mix, and your average listener doesn't speak latin . Even then good luck getting a syllable based library to not sound unnatural... 9 out of 10 times it winds up sounding as artificial as a string patch with no round robins. Syllables also often have sloppy and inconsistent timings, and in the majority of libraries I have it's a concept that sounds great on paper but simply doesn't sound good in practice.

Ark 1 and Oceania however have syllables that actually sound really good when strung together. Whatever method they used makes both sound very natural in a mix, and in some cases can stand up on their own... (I'm guessing they recorded multiple runs of all syllables being sung back to back, as they don't sound disconnected the way other libraries do...) The timing is surprisingly easy to work with as well. The few syllables that need some nudging are often by small amounts, and ultimately much less fuss than any other library I have.

Requiem is quite good, however I've found the best sounding way to use it is use the actual TM full phrases, (the syllables sound super disconnected). Even in the walkthrough it's painfully obvious.. Voxos' syllables also sound disconnetcted and sloppy, and it's missing the upper dynamic layers so it doesn't actually do a good job of delivering in the "epic" department. (Assuming that's what you're after)... It sounds nice, but just doesn't have that larger than life sound that can only be captured by recording the human voice at those upper dynamics.

These days though Ark 1 and Oceanian do the job best for me personally as it's not often I need choir, and when I've found these sound most natural in a mix... (But *DONT* take my word for it. Listen to demos and make your own judgement call!)

And it's 100% true as pointed out above... No one library can do everything... This is why there isn't a choir library that covers everything - male/female, childrens, soft and lyrical, big and epic etc... There is no _*best*_, only what's best for what you based on what you plan on writing with it..


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 30, 2020)

Strongly disagree that wordbuilders don’t work, at least the one in Hollywood Choirs which is a technological marvel IMO. It really depends on your application. Do you just want oos and ahs to serve as pads tucked underneath your other instruments? Then you don’t need a wordbuilder. But once you move beyond that, it becomes a question of which libraries provide you enough syllables to either allow your choir to sound like it does in your head or sound like lyrics you want to be sung. In either case, that is where a word builder and a lot of syllables come into play. Words do matter - even if they are nonsensical. The sound of the word matters - what the consonant is, what the vowel sounds like, the duration of these, etc. I’ve done a lot of vocal production in my day so maybe I’m overly sensitive to this but Hollywood Choirs gives me the ability to really fine tune things. There are compromises of course, but it certainly isn’t overrated.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 30, 2020)

If you’re going for the epic choir sound, get Oceania 1 or 2 and save yourself a lot of money and hassle. They’re very easy to get great results with little effort and sound amazing.


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## Gil (Dec 31, 2020)

Hello,
Talking about Hollywood Choirs, you'll find a few things on this forum, but here's something to add:


Hope that helps in your decision (to choose this or another choir library)!


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## hereformusic (Dec 31, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> Ultimately world builders don't work well. (IMO They don't work at all!) The garble that comes out of attempting to make EW SC say something sounds ridiculous. Not to mention the silly "language" you have to constantly refer back to in order to try and make it work is ludicrous. And the implementation is just way to slow and crippling to work with on any kind of deadline project.
> 
> And, ultimately unless you need to write a piece focused on intelligible syllables the syllables themselves rarely matter as you typically can't hear them clearly in a mix, and your average listener doesn't speak latin . Even then good luck getting a syllable based library to not sound unnatural... 9 out of 10 times it winds up sounding as artificial as a string patch with no round robins. Syllables also often have sloppy and inconsistent timings, and in the majority of libraries I have it's a concept that sounds great on paper but simply doesn't sound good in practice.
> 
> ...


There's two that I've heard of and liked: Strezov's Wotan Men's Choir and Freya Choir (female choir), what are your thoughts?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 31, 2020)

hereformusic said:


> There's two that I've heard of and liked: Strezov's Wotan Men's Choir and Freya Choir (female choir), what are your thoughts?


I own both. They're very nice - and well reviewed here. The syllables are quite limited but there are a few tools to manipulate them within the instrument. Tonally, they're awesome.


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## jaketanner (Dec 31, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I own both. They're very nice - and well reviewed here. The syllables are quite limited but there are a few tools to manipulate them within the instrument. Tonally, they're awesome.


But pretty expensive for what they offer. Most others give you both men and women...so for 550 Euros, for an adult choir is up there. I'm gonna personally go with Genesis soon. I have Insolidus and Lacrimosa, as well as all Omnisphere as to offer and believe it or not, NI factory has a choir that is useable (used it for xmas competition)...LOL I also have Leberis, but not nearly as good as Genesis.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 31, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> But pretty expensive for what they offer. Most others give you both men and women...so for 550 Euros, for an adult choir is up there. I'm gonna personally go with Genesis soon. I have Insolidus and Lacrimosa, as well as all Omnisphere as to offer and believe it or not, NI factory has a choir that is useable (used it for xmas competition)...LOL I also have Leberis, but not nearly as good as Genesis.


Yet, they are one of the only libraries that offer separate SATB sections, each recorded individually and fully. There's a lot of content per library.


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## jcrosby (Dec 31, 2020)

hereformusic said:


> There's two that I've heard of and liked: Strezov's Wotan Men's Choir and Freya Choir (female choir), what are your thoughts?


I actually don't have either. (Not because of quality or anything like that..) I have the ones I've mentioned, maybe one or two others I'm forgetting, and ultimately found those 2 do a good enough job for what/when I need choir... 

Ultimately you should decide what you're after based on what you see yourself writing mostly... if it's epic/trailer type stuff you really don't need to worry about what the syllables are, you just want to find something that sounds natural in a mix...


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## jcrosby (Dec 31, 2020)

Gil said:


> Hello,
> Talking about Hollywood Choirs, you'll find a few things on this forum, but here's something to add:
> 
> 
> Hope that helps in your decision (to choose this or another choir library)!



Case in point... That's a song I know like the back of my hand and the 'lyrics' in this video sound painfully artificial, to the point of finding it distracting.. 1 of the many examples that stand out to me in this? Listen to how HC 'pronounces' the word _sympathy. _Even the timing is a disaster, not to mention the broken sounding nature of the syllables that make up the word.

Words, syllables, etc are an extremely personal thing... I get that for sure... I personally find using words that don't sound real far more difficult and distracting to work with... I'd rather used canned/generic latin (or other) syllables that flow extremely well together because extra care was given to the transitions, than use a word builder that creates artificial sounding words. 

But again, this is a strongly personal preference with a lot of varying opinions... And I stand by mine. HC's attempt to produce the lyrics of an iconic song like Bohemian Rhapsody just doesn't work.


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## lettucehat (Dec 31, 2020)

Yeah you need to think about whether wordbuilder is something that sounds cool and you *think* you need vs something you literally need. I think a lot of people are in the first category. It seems like something you need when most people don't.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 31, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> Case in point... That's a song I know like the back of my hand and the 'lyrics' in this video sound painfully artificial, to the point of finding it distracting.. 1 of the many examples that stand out to me in this? Listen to how HC 'pronounces' the word _sympathy. _Even the timing is a disaster, not to mention the broken sounding nature of the syllables that make up the word.
> 
> Words, syllables, etc are an extremely personal thing... I get that for sure... I personally find using words that don't sound real far more difficult and distracting to work with... I'd rather used canned/generic latin (or other) syllables that flow extremely well together because extra care was given to the transitions, than use a word builder that creates artificial sounding words.
> 
> But again, this is a strongly personal preference with a lot of varying opinions... And I stand by mine. HC's attempt to produce the lyrics of an iconic song like Bohemian Rhapsody just doesn't work.


Assuming ANY virtual instrument is going to sound like a real vocal recording is going to leave you disappointed. If that's what you expect to get out of HC or any word builder, well, nothing is going to satisfy you. That also misses the point of the flexibility and control you do get from a word builder like the one in HC.

But to your point, this all boils down to personal preference. Canned words / syllables have their place. I think HC's approach where you can control things more granularly also has a place.

I find this a much more appropriate demo of what you can do than the Bohemian Rhapsody one (which nobody would likely use HC for outside of some tech demo):


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## easyrider (Dec 31, 2020)

EWC 

Sounds like nothing else....


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## jcrosby (Dec 31, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> But to your point, this all boils down to personal preference. Canned words / syllables have their place. I think HC's approach where you can control things more granularly also has a place.


100%... Choirs can be quite polarizing! (Like legato )


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## RogiervG (Jan 1, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> Case in point... That's a song I know like the back of my hand and the 'lyrics' in this video sound painfully artificial, to the point of finding it distracting.. 1 of the many examples that stand out to me in this? Listen to how HC 'pronounces' the word _sympathy. _Even the timing is a disaster, not to mention the broken sounding nature of the syllables that make up the word.
> 
> Words, syllables, etc are an extremely personal thing... I get that for sure... I personally find using words that don't sound real far more difficult and distracting to work with... I'd rather used canned/generic latin (or other) syllables that flow extremely well together because extra care was given to the transitions, than use a word builder that creates artificial sounding words.
> 
> But again, this is a strongly personal preference with a lot of varying opinions... And I stand by mine. HC's attempt to produce the lyrics of an iconic song like Bohemian Rhapsody just doesn't work.


Don't forget he plays it live.. which makes it sloppy. With sloppy i mean: not taking into account the timing/latency for words in regard to tempo etc. Not taking good care of dynamics (important!), and he didn't edit the words in the editor properly (if at all).
HC and SC both are not meant to be played live, for as wordbuilding patches go.


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## jcrosby (Jan 1, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> Don't forget he plays it live.. which makes it sloppy. With sloppy i mean: not taking into account the timing/latency for words in regard to tempo etc. Not taking good care of dynamics (important!), and he didn't edit the words in the editor properly (if at all).
> HC and SC both are not meant to be played live, for as wordbuilding patches go.


That's fine, and I'm well familiar.. I've owned SC for years and am quite familiar with the wordbuilder... While I'm sure they improved it in HW Choirs the words sound every bit artifical to me as anything I did back in the day using SC's wordbuilder. I even spent way too much time fiddling with phrases and referring to the manual constantly... IME nothing ever came out of it that didn't sound artificial, and I'm hearing the same artifacts in this demo that I'm quite familiar with...

Ironically I always like the tone of SC. I always wanted wordbuilder to work well enough...

Howver when you compare that to the exposed demos of Oceania 2 AFAIC there's just no comparison...








And as I've said, Ark 1's choirs are nothing short of pehnomenal for those that are ok with a limited set of syllables..


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## RogiervG (Jan 1, 2021)

i still think with proper editing and all, the results can be good (enough). Especially when properly mixed into the rest of the music. With real choirs it's mostly gibberish anyway. With some words to be heard in between. (or guessing of a word they sing)

As an a capella or upfront choir, it's very difficult to make it sound real. It is possible, heard a few over the years. But these choirs from EW are meant to be used within an orchestral context. And they both do that quite well, if taking care of proper editing dynamics and timing.
Trick is to not make them sing every word as is.. but only a few important ones. The rest can be gibberish fake words, to let them sing properly/melodically in the right way. So i heard from advanced users of the libraries and recently experienced myself.


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## jaketanner (Jan 1, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> Howver when you compare that to the exposed demos of Oceania 2 AFAIC there's just no comparison...


They sound good BUT...man it just sounds like it's the same exact words/syllables over and over...all ending in "s"...which is very pronounced. I know it's just these demos, because i heard a better tutorial on it which uses almost no "s" and sounds so much better. But ultimately, I think a library like Dominus and Genesis that have a lot of combination possibilities are going to be the best at recreating words. Take Duel of the Fates...that is Sanskrit. Unique set of vowels, but if you have enough of them, you can get very close to something similar.


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## Trash Panda (Jan 1, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> They sound good BUT...man it just sounds like it's the same exact words/syllables over and over...all ending in "s"...which is very pronounced. I know it's just these demos, because i heard a better tutorial on it which uses almost no "s" and sounds so much better. But ultimately, I think a library like Dominus and Genesis that have a lot of combination possibilities are going to be the best at recreating words. Take Duel of the Fates...that is Sanskrit. Unique set of vowels, but if you have enough of them, you can get very close to something similar.


I believe the exaggerated S sound is from using the sustain pedal.


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## jaketanner (Jan 1, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I believe the exaggerated S sound is from using the sustain pedal.


Over use of the pedal just seems to give the library a limited sound. If I were to just go based off the demos on the site, I would not even consider it. There is also no place on the PS site to even see the syllables within the library. Very strange...but the sound is very good at least.


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## Trash Panda (Jan 1, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Over use of the pedal just seems to give the library a limited sound. If I were to just go based off the demos on the site, I would not even consider it. There is also no place on the PS site to even see the syllables within the library. Very strange...but the sound is very good at least.


It’s kinda the point to not have the syllables be a focus. I think Jasper included the keyswitches for those who just MUST have control over the syllables. Honestly I’ve never needed them because I fall into the category of hearing this when choirs sing in orchestral pieces.


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## jaketanner (Jan 1, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> It’s kinda the point to not have the syllables be a focus. I think Jasper included the keyswitches for those who just MUST have control over the syllables. Honestly I’ve never needed them because I fall into the category of hearing this when choirs sing in orchestral pieces.



I've heard that one before...and the live performance of this, has mostly consonants...although the "s" are pronounced, it's not over bearing. I would love for a library to incorporate the Sankrit syllables and vowels...seems to work better in darker moodier music.


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## jaketanner (Jan 1, 2021)

So I'm listening to Dominus again...(not pro), and I think it's a winner...so wondering if anyone has ever tried to combine choir libraries to form words that aren't possible with just one. I have Lacrimosa, and Insolidus as adult choirs...wondering if I add Dominus if they might blend well to create different words. Certainly worth a shot i think.


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## jcrosby (Jan 1, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> So I'm listening to Dominus again...(not pro), and I think it's a winner...so wondering if anyone has ever tried to combine choir libraries to form words that aren't possible with just one. I have Lacrimosa, and Insolidus as adult choirs...wondering if I add Dominus if they might blend well to create different words. Certainly worth a shot i think.


This is actually why I got roped into this post in the 1st place  (Not Dominus, but libraries with enough syllables to build some basic latin words.) I've never found a library with a set of syllables that didn't sound awkward when attempting to piece words together from them.

I think we're at a place with sampling technology where this nut could finally be cracked, but so far I haven't found a library that does it without it sounding disconnected and unnatural. However I don't have a ton of choir libraries so it's quite possible there are a few that actually pull it off well now... I'd be surprised if there wasn't... 

But the libraries that are getting up there in age, like Requiem, have never worked well for me when I have tried piecing together basic words which is why I prefer a library with fewer syllables that focus on smooth transitions that don't leap out of a mix at you...


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## jaketanner (Jan 1, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> This is actually why I got roped into this post in the 1st place  (Not Dominus, but libraries with enough syllables to build some basic latin words.) I've never found a library with a set of syllables that didn't sound awkward when attempting to piece words together from them.
> 
> I think we're at a place with sampling technology where this nut could finally be cracked, but so far I haven't found a library that does it without it sounding disconnected and unnatural. However I don't have a ton of choir libraries so it's quite possible there are a few that actually pull it off well now... I'd be surprised if there wasn't...
> 
> But the libraries that are getting up there in age, like Requiem, have never worked well for me when I have tried piecing together basic words which is why I prefer a library with fewer syllables that focus on smooth transitions that don't leap out of a mix at you...


Have you heard the Dominus demos? The walkthrough sounded pretty darn good. You can always use two tracks and blend your words that way also.


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## jcrosby (Jan 1, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Have you heard the Dominus demos? The walkthrough sounded pretty darn good. You can always use two tracks and blend your words that way also.


I haven't. I'll check it out for sure though... I'd love to find a new choir library that I could add to fill in the gaps.. I'm also kind of curious if/when OT's going to release a choir library. I can't imagine this isn't in their roadmap.


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## jaketanner (Jan 4, 2021)

So after doing some more listening...and listening to some live choirs, I noticed one thing that i think the libraries fail at. So when the choir sings softly, they completely change their tone...almost intentionally singing in a different voice. What I've noticed with the choir libraries, is that from soft to loud, the "tone" is pretty much the same...slightly different, but not where the tone is different...just sounds like a volume change instead of an actual "voice" timbre change. Hope this makes sense. Anyone else find this to be true, or do you have a library that has different timbres for soft and then loud passages?


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## Wunderhorn (Jan 4, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> So after doing some more listening...and listening to some live choirs, I noticed one thing that i think the libraries fail at. So when the choir sings softly, they completely change their tone...almost intentionally singing in a different voice. What I've noticed with the choir libraries, is that from soft to loud, the "tone" is pretty much the same...slightly different, but not where the tone is different...just sounds like a volume change instead of an actual "voice" timbre change. Hope this makes sense. Anyone else find this to be true, or do you have a library that has different timbres for soft and then loud passages?


Good observation. This is one reason why I often criticize choir library for not being able to reproduce proper ppp. I assume it is much easier to record three layers of moderate to loud shouting as opposed to a real pianissimo where - as you noticed - a lot more changes than just the intensity in the voices. It might make the crossfading into other velocity layers more challenging.


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## jaketanner (Jan 4, 2021)

Wunderhorn said:


> Good observation. This is one reason why I often criticize choir library for not being able to reproduce proper ppp. I assume it is much easier to record three layers of moderate to loud shouting as opposed to a real pianissimo where - as you noticed - a lot more changes than just the intensity in the voices. It might make the crossfading into other velocity layers more challenging.


I think for this reason, I will need to use multiple libraries. I think i can blend a few to create the differences. I still have my eye on Dominus, and for shorts i can always use Lacrimosa which sounds pretty good for that type of thing.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 4, 2021)

VST is one plug-in format. They're plug-ins.

And this question is about sample libraries, not plug-ins.

The hill I die on.


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## Wunderhorn (Jan 4, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> I think for this reason, I will need to use multiple libraries. I think i can blend a few to create the differences. I still have my eye on Dominus, and for shorts i can always use Lacrimosa which sounds pretty good for that type of thing.


The Marcatos and Staccatos in Dominus Pro are absolutely worth it and super easy to use. Dominus Pro is now my main choir workhorse. I only augment it if I need super loud shouts, or if I need textured articulations or other specialty things (as in Time Micro/Macro/Whitacre/Babel etc)...


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## John Longley (Jan 4, 2021)

I enjoy EWC for what it is and Genesis is perfect, but I don’t need Children’s Choir that often. Still waiting.


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## jaketanner (Jan 4, 2021)

Wunderhorn said:


> The Marcatos and Staccatos in Dominus Pro are absolutely worth it and super easy to use. Dominus Pro is now my main choir workhorse. I only augment it if I need super loud shouts, or if I need textured articulations or other specialty things (as in Time Micro/Macro/Whitacre/Babel etc)...


Just not convinced it's $350 worth. Dominus is $200, and maybe some time throughout the year, pro may go on a better sale. I have until Wednesday to decide..LOL


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## Wunderhorn (Jan 4, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Just not convinced it's $350 worth. Dominus is $200, and maybe some time throughout the year, pro may go on a better sale. I have until Wednesday to decide..LOL


IMO it is worth it. Often I use only the Marcatos to sketch things out. You can work with that incredibly fast.
Their sales are quite rare and I would not bank on Dominus Pro getting significantly cheaper than this.

With choir libraries I have learned it is a waste of money to go for cheaper alternatives instead of biting the bullet to get the very best there is. I learned my lesson. In the end you just end up getting the expensive thing anyway after you already have spend money on something cheaper that will then gather dust. And perhaps you pay full price then because you happen to be at a time where you have a project and you really want a nice choir.


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## jaketanner (Jan 4, 2021)

Wunderhorn said:


> IMO it is worth it. Often I use only the Marcatos to sketch things out. You can work with that incredibly fast.
> Their sales are quite rare and I would not bank on Dominus Pro getting significantly cheaper than this.
> 
> With choir libraries I have learned it is a waste of money to go for cheaper alternatives instead of biting the bullet to get the very best there is. I learned my lesson. In the end you just end up getting the expensive thing anyway after you already have spend money on something cheaper that will then gather dust. And perhaps you pay full price then because you happen to be at a time where you have a project and you really want a nice choir.


Damn, you're killing my wallet.. LOL. Still a lot for a choir library. I feel like the wasted money went to Insolidus...I really don't find it useful. I got it on mega sale but I don't write arcs. I did use Lacrimosa with great success in one of my reel tracks and sounded perfect actually. I may just go for Dominus...Don't have any projects to justify the $550 for a choir yet. Gonna have to take a chance and see what comes up if I really love it, I'll just pay the difference I guess. Thanks for the help. Do they have EDU discounts by chance? I emailed them days ago, but they never got back to me.


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## fourier (Jan 5, 2021)

I would be very interested to know if Audibro plans to make adult choir libraries based on their new engine, as I find Genesis to be simply amazing. 

@dxmachina - do you know if there are plans in motion for creating additional choir libraries in the coming years?


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## Wunderhorn (Jan 5, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Damn, you're killing my wallet.. LOL. Still a lot for a choir library. I feel like the wasted money went to Insolidus...I really don't find it useful. I got it on mega sale but I don't write arcs. I did use Lacrimosa with great success in one of my reel tracks and sounded perfect actually. I may just go for Dominus...Don't have any projects to justify the $550 for a choir yet. Gonna have to take a chance and see what comes up if I really love it, I'll just pay the difference I guess. Thanks for the help. Do they have EDU discounts by chance? I emailed them days ago, but they never got back to me.


I know, all those VIs are a money drain especially since one instrument never really covers everything the real instrument could do (and close to impossible for a manufacturer to achieve), so by having a dozen string or more libraries it feels like you are just getting started.

Not much different with choirs, though strategic purchase decisions can help you cover more ground of what you need.
Voices can do so many different things and knowing what you want to compose is key to choosing the right library. Dominus (Pro) is good for many middle-of-the-road tasks while its emphasis is on a beautiful tone (it can go softer than many other libraries and that is also one of it's strengths) and ease of use. There might be other libraries with more precise word-building capabilities for example but that comes at the price of speedy workflow and or sound esthetics.

What I would like to see in future updates/expansions are some typical church slavonic syllables, modern textural articulations and ostinati (e.g. 'nanana') and a basso profondo (octavist). I would even wish for an even quieter ppp layer (even though this is already one of the best you get in sample libraries) as well as a true fff layer. You see, it is important to know what it can and can't do.

Insolidus is a specialty item which is designed around the arcs. Here you have to compose for the library instead of with it. Sometimes that can fit and then the arcs can work wonders.


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## dxmachina (Jan 5, 2021)

fourier said:


> I would be very interested to know if Audibro plans to make adult choir libraries based on their new engine, as I find Genesis to be simply amazing.
> 
> @dxmachina - do you know if there are plans in motion for creating additional choir libraries in the coming years?


Thanks very much... yes, we definitely hope to cover a full adult choir in the near future (in the Genesis Engine). Health concerns are pretty high for singers in large groups right now though.


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## jaketanner (Jan 5, 2021)

Wunderhorn said:


> I know, all those VIs are a money drain especially since one instrument never really covers everything the real instrument could do (and close to impossible for a manufacturer to achieve), so by having a dozen string or more libraries it feels like you are just getting started.
> 
> Not much different with choirs, though strategic purchase decisions can help you cover more ground of what you need.
> Voices can do so many different things and knowing what you want to compose is key to choosing the right library. Dominus (Pro) is good for many middle-of-the-road tasks while its emphasis is on a beautiful tone (it can go softer than many other libraries and that is also one of it's strengths) and ease of use. There might be other libraries with more precise word-building capabilities for example but that comes at the price of speedy workflow and or sound esthetics.
> ...


I agree. I need to look at choir libraries like I do my other libraries. One is not going to cut everything.


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## hereformusic (Jan 6, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> I agree. I need to look at choir libraries like I do my other libraries. One is not going to cut everything.


What are your thoughts on Venus Symphonic Women's Choir? the ones named here are better?


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## jaketanner (Jan 6, 2021)

hereformusic said:


> What are your thoughts on Venus Symphonic Women's Choir? the ones named here are better?


Haven’t actually listened to it. Didn’t even know about it really. Will check it out though. Thanks.


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## jaketanner (Jan 6, 2021)

hereformusic said:


> What are your thoughts on Venus Symphonic Women's Choir? the ones named here are better?


It sounds okay...not for my personal needs though. I didn't like the tone very much for what I write, and $400 for a women's only choir is a lot considering it would cost $800 for an adult choir.


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## jaketanner (Jan 6, 2021)

Today is the last day to pull the trigger on Dominus...decisions decisions.. LOL


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## Trash Panda (Jan 6, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Today is the last day to pull the trigger on Dominus...decisions decisions.. LOL


One good turn deserves another. 

Just open up your wallet. Don't be weak and frugal. Be strong and penniless!


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## jaketanner (Jan 6, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> One good turn deserves another.
> 
> Just open up your wallet. Don't be weak and frugal. Be strong and penniless!


well...with the new announcement of OT giving EDU discounts of 40% in 2021, I am holding off now...LOL Once SINE is AAX, I have a few things I want. So may skip this sale.


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## jaketanner (Jan 6, 2021)

ok...so upon further checking, SINE player is not AAX compatible, nor Komplete Kontrol so that I can use it in Pro Tools...so back to Choirs.. LOL. VOXOS has also hit my radar. Any downfalls on this?


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## Christoph Pawlowski (Feb 19, 2021)

I absolutely adore the Ark Choirs even though they are a little limited.


I used the MA1 choirs


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## AudioLoco (Feb 19, 2021)

Freeya
Oceania
Genesis

Enjoy!


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## [email protected] (Mar 14, 2021)

STREZOV Freyja and Wotan, hands down! 

This month I was working on a piece for choire and orchestra and needed some (gibberish) text. So first I tried Voxos from Cinesamples, because they have a lot of syllables, but it handled the lines very stiff and was limited in the dynamic range. Since it had a lot of swells I tried 8dio Silka and Insolidus, but when you shift the notes within the arks it could "break" them. Also I am not happy about their releases - if you don't let the prerecorded arks fully run out, the sound just gets cut off.

I didn't master Dominus yet because also here you need to tweak the continous-control-data a lot. So I tried (as a last option) Strezov's Freyja and Wotan and it was a pure deligth working with them. The syllables stuck well together, the dynamic range is sufficent and finally it sounded as I wanted it to.

You get: individual sections sopranos, alt, tenor, basses, a limited amount of syllables and legato patches and everything is well scripted. Comparing these to other choir libraries it was really "next generation".

Last year I acquired a lot of virtual choirs:

- 8dio: Insolidus
- 8dio: Lacrimosa
- 8dio: Silka
- 8dio: Requiem Pro
- Audiobro: Genesis
- Cinesamples: Voxos 2
- Cinesamples: Voices of War
- Fluffy Audio: Dominus Pro
- Performance Samples: Oceania I
- Performance Samples: Oceania II
- Spitfire Audio: Eric Whitacre Choir
- Soniccouture: All Saints Chamber Choir
- Strezov: Arva
- Strezov: Freyja
- Strezov: Rhodope
- Strezov: Wotan
- Strezov: Storm Choir Ultimate
- VSL Big Bang Orchestra: Ganymede

I already had the original VSL: VI Choir

and purchased several "package" libraries with choir: Metropolis Ark 1, 2 and 4 as well as Strezov's Jade Ethnic Orchestra and their Balkan Orchestra

So I think I am quite covered with choirs now and don't need Hollywood Choirs or Olympus 
Because Strezov really did some great work.

And the best: They offer now a reduced package from their choirs: _Choir Essentials_. (which I obviously don't have )

So I will hold off buying choir libraries for a long time


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## jbuhler (Mar 14, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> STREZOV Freyja and Wotan, hands down!
> 
> This month I was working on a piece for choire and orchestra and needed some (gibberish) text. So first I tried Voxos from Cinesamples, because they have a lot of syllables, but it handled the lines very stiff and was limited in the dynamic range. Since it had a lot of swells I tried 8dio Silka and Insolidus, but when you shift the notes within the arks it could "break" them. Also I am not happy about their releases - if you don't let the prerecorded arks fully run out, the sound just gets cut off.
> 
> ...


I feel like you need the Hollywood Choir, Olympus, and Whitacre choir just for the sake of completeness!


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## [email protected] (Mar 14, 2021)

I have the Whitacre Choir already


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## jbuhler (Mar 14, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> I have the Whitacre Choir already


Sorry, missed that in the list! So many choir libraries!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 14, 2021)

Hollywood Choirs does something none of the choirs you own can do. There's really nothing like it. Whether you need or like it though is a separate question.


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## Geomir (Mar 14, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> Don't forget he plays it live.. which makes it sloppy. With sloppy i mean: not taking into account the timing/latency for words in regard to tempo etc. Not taking good care of dynamics (important!), and he didn't edit the words in the editor properly (if at all).
> HC and SC both are not meant to be played live, for as wordbuilding patches go.


Very good point about EWHC.

But even when played live, it can still sound so powerful and impressive:



Maybe not worth the full price, but with that semi-permanent 60% sales, I think there is nothing like it value-for-money wise.


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## bill5 (Mar 14, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> Strezov really did some great work.
> 
> And the best: They offer now a reduced package from their choirs: _Choir Essentials_.


I would be curious to hear from someone who has this. As my needs aren't as demanding, it seems like a great way to get a pretty inexpensive yet quality choir.

PS to anyone interested, this sale has gone past the deadline but still available: https://www.performancesamples.com/oceaniaii/


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## Trash Panda (Mar 14, 2021)

bill5 said:


> I would be curious to hear from someone who has this. As my needs aren't as demanding, it seems like a great way to get a pretty inexpensive yet quality choir.
> 
> PS to anyone interested, this sale has gone past the deadline but still available: https://www.performancesamples.com/oceaniaii/


They’re like Frosted Flakes.


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## bill5 (Mar 14, 2021)

? Don't get the joke/implication.


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## [email protected] (Mar 14, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Sorry, missed that in the list! So many choir libraries!


No worries, that's why I think I don't need additional choir libraries.


ALittleNightMusic said:


> Hollywood Choirs does something none of the choirs you own can do. [...]


And what's that?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 14, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> No worries, that's why I think I don't need additional choir libraries.
> 
> And what's that?


A truly revolutionary and incredibly flexible word builder.


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## Trash Panda (Mar 14, 2021)

bill5 said:


> ? Don't get the joke/implication.





https://knowledgebishop.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/good_to_great_image.jpg


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## Casiquire (Mar 14, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> A truly revolutionary and incredibly flexible word builder.


To my ears it wasn't significantly improved word building over Symphonic Choirs, and then you lose the SATB 😔 I thought HC was kind of a step down.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 14, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> To my ears it wasn't significantly improved word building over Symphonic Choirs, and then you lose the SATB 😔 I thought HC was kind of a step down.


I haven’t tried SC but in general, what EW achieved with their choirs is pretty remarkable.


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## Casiquire (Mar 14, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I haven’t tried SC but in general, what EW achieved with their choirs is pretty remarkable.


Totally agreed


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