# Current Apple production models...which one to start with?



## Lupez (Dec 1, 2014)

Hi all !
I am upgrading my old 2008 iMac (used mainly for audio recording so far) and would like to be able to run current v.i. libraries hassle free ...what's the minimum hardware required today in the Apple line ? I am on Logic X, so no Win machines for me.

thanks guys.
:roll:


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## AC986 (Dec 2, 2014)

The way I see it you only have two options. New or second hand.

Either way, you will either go for the MacPro or the iMac. Just make sure if it's a new model that your interface will work with it.

I have an old MacPro 2008 and am still waiting to upgrade because of Apple's inability to admit failure on their part.


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## Dryden.Chambers (Dec 2, 2014)

Mac Mini's i7's quad cores work well (as you can use them for slaves later down the road as well). But keep in mind the newest ones are 2 core only I believe so you want to look for 2013 4 core or before.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 2, 2014)

Lupez, it also depends on how much of which libraries you need to run.


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## Dryden.Chambers (Dec 2, 2014)

Nick makes a good point as usual, the mini's for ie are 16G max, and most Imac are 16G max as well, although some of the newer ones are 32G I believe.



Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Dec 02 said:


> Lupez, it also depends on how much of which libraries you need to run.


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## FriFlo (Dec 2, 2014)

Hmm ... Why would they downgrade the newer Mac mini model? Possibly, not to generate a much cheaper alternative for the overpriced Mac pros? I still don't get, why anyone would buy those dustbins ...


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## Lupez (Dec 3, 2014)

Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Dec 02 said:


> Lupez, it also depends on how much of which libraries you need to run.



Libraries, good question indeed.
For a start I would like to deal with one interface, so I thought I was going Spitfire, but I cannot help to think that EW Hollywood sounds much better...so I guess I am putting myself in trouble here. :?


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## Zardoz (Dec 3, 2014)

FriFlo @ Tue Dec 02 said:


> Hmm ... Why would they downgrade the newer Mac mini model? Possibly, not to generate a much cheaper alternative for the overpriced Mac pros? I still don't get, why anyone would buy those dustbins ...



Unfortunately Apple views the Mini as an "entry-level" product designed to attract Windows users used to cheap mid-towers into coming over to the Apple side. They seem to have little interest in making them little all-purpose workhorses, which is too bad because that was a great niche that the former incarnations of the product filled. I have no problem with them making the $499 mini underpowered, but it would be nice if they at least had a quad core option on the upper end. 

I agree with you about the new Mac Pros - absurd specs for a $3000 base-priced computer. I think they've basically decided that all most people really need these days including most professionals is an iMac, and so they've essentially ceded the power market to Windows. The Pro is just a token offering to keep the old school graphics and video guys from defecting.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 3, 2014)

To be honest: it's just frustrating that one needs to buy Apple computers to use their software.

Specially the prices for the MacPro-s are ridiculous when compared with "normal" PCs.

The only thing that keeps me on the Mac platform is the fact that i'm pretty used to Logic (use it since Notator-days in the 80ies)...
The day Apple bought Emagic was a terrible day.
Since then Logic is spiraling down towards iLogic....


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## Lupez (Dec 3, 2014)

I've loved Macs since I was a kid in the 80s, so I am happy to be a customer again.
I cannot watch PCs anymore, and as far as I can tell Logic does it all.


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## germancomponist (Dec 3, 2014)

Lupez @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> I've loved Macs since I was a kid in the 80s, so I am happy to be a customer again.
> I cannot watch PCs anymore, and as far as I can tell Logic does it all.



Great to see happy people like you!

I am a PC guy and I always have a smile for the people who swear on their Mac's.

Have fun in your belief!


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## Zardoz (Dec 3, 2014)

germancomponist @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Lupez @ Thu Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> > I've loved Macs since I was a kid in the 80s, so I am happy to be a customer again.
> ...



It's funny because I always see Windows enthusiasts making these kinds of comments on Apple boards, but rarely see the opposite. Apple users seem happy and unaware there is a "competition" going on...


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## Lupez (Dec 4, 2014)

germancomponist @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Lupez @ Thu Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> > I've loved Macs since I was a kid in the 80s, so I am happy to be a customer again.
> ...



Danke Gunther for your input but I think it's off-topic. 
For your information, I've been a former PC enthusiast and I have been using Win at office for 20 years now, so I am a PC user too and know what I am talking about...you don't.
Now please let's get back to topic, I would like to hear from those who have something to say, I am not interested in cat-fights.


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## Lupez (Dec 4, 2014)

Zardoz @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> It's funny because I always see Windows enthusiasts making these kinds of comments on Apple boards, but rarely see the opposite. Apple users seem happy and unaware there is a "competition" going on...



well said.
I don't care of you use a PC as I don't piss on someone else's garden for the sake of doing so; to each his own...live and let live, or if you like: "de gustibus non est disputandum". 
Now let's get back on topic, shall we?


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## kclements (Dec 4, 2014)

Moving from a 2008 iMac to any current Mac (except maybe a Mini) will blow you away. I have a 2010 27" iMac that is just now starting to show its age. 

As mentioned, a lot depends on what you want to do. EW and Spitfire take some horsepower, but also RAM is a big factor. How much RaM do you currently have? I would say 16 GB of ram is minimal for using a lot of VIs. 24 is better. I have 16 and I often wish I had a bit more head room, memory wise.

Also, do you have external drives or running everything from the internal?

The big thing your going to see is a switch to thunderbolt from FireWire. You can get adapters, but I don't have any experience with them, and they may slow you down to FireWire speeds. If you have a lot invested in external hard drives and audio Interface, you may want to look at getting a used MacPro perhaps from OWC. 

Also, you want to be sure that your software all runs on os 10.10, which is what the new Mac will come with ( unless you used). Logic pro works great as does Kontakt. Not sure about Play as I don't own any EW stuff. But double check any other plugs you rely on and make sure they made the jump. And your interface has updated drivers as well. 

You'll also be jumping to 64 bit if your not already, so that could cause some issues with older drivers and plugs. Take an inventory of all the stuff you really need and make sure it has updates that support 10.10 and 64 bit.

You didn't list a budget or which iMac you have, but I would say the new Retina iMac is a killer machine and might suite your needs. I would get as much ram as you can afford - it's cheaper to.buy it at OWC rather than Apple, and very easy to install.

If you give us some more details about what you currently have, maybe I would adjust my advice. 

Hth
Cheers
kc


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## Lupez (Dec 4, 2014)

Thanks a bunch Kayle
my interface is Symphony I/O so first thing sure before committing to Yosemite I will wait Apogee to release the Yosemite drivers which hopefully should happen by the end of the year.
I am not keen on buying the older Mac Pro for two reasons: Thunderbolt absence and fans noise - I get enough from the Symphony already, so I am looking for the quietest machine I can find, although I am ready to be proven wrong.

For streaming audio I am currently using an external WD 1TB 7200rpm FW800/SATA/USB2 drive which helped me a lot to speed things up with my present machine but I don't see much use for it in my next setup - perhaps as a back up drive?

I am already on 64bits Logic X (and Pro Tools 11) but I already pushed my machine beyond its limits several time in the last months, so since I am ugrading I would like to be sure I have something that can run the latest libraries effortlessly - it'll have to run VIs and audio at the same time of course.

My budget is around 3500 euros, so I was considering the i7 Imac with 32gb and SSD, although after 3 iMacs I would really like to go Pro this time, but I have a feeling that the entry level Mac Pro with basic RAM isn't exactly a VI grinder...but I am ready to be proven wrong again.


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## kclements (Dec 4, 2014)

Lupez @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> Thanks a bunch Kayle
> my interface is Symphony I/O so first thing sure before committing to Yosemite I will wait Apogee to release the Yosemite drivers which hopefully should happen by the end of the year.
> I am not keen on buying the older Mac Pro for two reasons: Thunderbolt absence and fans noise - I get enough from the Symphony already, so I am looking for the quietest machine I can find, although I am ready to be proven wrong.



You're Welcome.

As I don't have a MacPro, I can't speak to the noise. But I have a lot of friends that have them (the older version) and I don't hear them complaining about the noise. I will ask a buddy a bit later today what he thinks. He just went through this same process, replacing his very old MacPro with a 2010 used 12 Core MP.

I have an apogee Duet - original Firewire version - and the drivers have been updated. So I would think they would have them for Symphony Too, no? 



> For streaming audio I am currently using an external WD 1TB 7200rpm FW800/SATA/USB2 drive which helped me a lot to speed things up with my present machine but I don't see much use for it in my next setup - perhaps as a back up drive?



I think you still want to use an external drive for your samples and recording audio to. I leave the internal drive for the app and system software only. Everything else goes to one external HD. I will eventually get another HD, but I think one external HD is a minimum. Even if you have to use an adapter to tie it in with TB.



> I am already on 64bits Logic X (and Pro Tools 11) but I already pushed my machine beyond its limits several time in the last months, so since I am ugrading I would like to be sure I have something that can run the latest libraries effortlessly - it'll have to run VIs and audio at the same time of course.
> 
> My budget is around 3500 euros, so I was considering the i7 Imac with 32gb and SSD, although after 3 iMacs I would really like to go Pro this time, but I have a feeling that the entry level Mac Pro with basic RAM isn't exactly a VI grinder...but I am ready to be proven wrong again.



I'm with you. I love this iMac, and it has worked great, but I really want to move up to the MP next time. From my research, the 6-Core MP is the way to go for Logic. It strikes a nice balance between performance and cost. But, going the MP route also means getting a new video monitor, which can add another $1000 if you go with the Apple monitor. I know there are a lot of cheaper monitors out there. But I look at this thing all day and I don't want to get tired of it. My wife works with a cheap HP monitor and I can't look at if for more than a half hour without needed a break. Ive tried to tweak some settings, but not too much, as it's not my machine. Anyway, I would not go for a cheap monitor - perhaps not the Apple one, but a good one to be sure.

Which also makes the new Retina iMac a significant deal. I haven't actually seen it yet in person, but from what I've heard, it looks amazing. I have heard some reports there may some display issues with the cheaper video card. so I would go with the upgraded video card. 

Have you checked out http://barefeats.com? They have real world tests and are updating their results with Logic Pro in the mix. They have some great tests of the iMac vs MP and others. Great reference site. And will be even better for us when he posts the Logic results.

Good luck. I won't be making any upgrades to my system until late next year (Unless I find a boatload of money somewhere).

Cheers
kc


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## AC986 (Dec 4, 2014)

You might want to check your interface out for the new iMac first just to see if it's going to work. Apogee did drivers for the Ensemble and the new iMacs and they didn't work.

Apogees sound great but their drivers are not the best in the world.


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## dinerdog (Dec 4, 2014)

Here's to hoping the Spring 2015 iMac refresh puts to rest these scattered audio problems.

This Apple thread is still going strong:

https://discussions.apple.com/message/2 ... 0#27226471


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## lpuser (Dec 4, 2014)

Hi Lupez,

to be honest, I would not suggest to buy an iMac or a Mac Mini because they are very limited in terms of memory (which is especially sad for the iMac).

Since you mention "libraries", I think you are going to have some heavy ones among them as well? If so, then it means: RAM and it means hard disks or even better SSDs.

With the iMac, Mac Mini as well as the new Mac Pro, you will have to buy external drives in order to get things up and running. I was in a decision phase this year too and realized that the amount I would have to spend on external drives (USB or Thunderbolt) is way too high for me.

So maybe you can think of something completely different, aka: A used Mac Pro 5,1? This is what I have bought at a very cheap price. You may even get them practically new from various dealers or on eBay.

The latest machine I have bought is equipped with a 3.2 GHz 6-core Xeon and 48 GB RAM, which is absolutely great with Logic Pro X. The best thing though is that you can have 4 internal drives, which is nice for large libraries. Of course you will get better throughput with a new Mac Pro and Thunderbolt expansions, but that´s also in a totally different price range.

The above machine was equipped with a 512 GB SSD which hosts my EW and Kontakt libraries, which is very nice. Also, PLAY, Kontakt and certainly VEP may benefit from "the-more-Ram-the-better".

But these are just my thoughts and experiences, depending on your budget, a new Mac Pro might be a great choice (some of my colleagues have bought one and are happy - at least with the 6 core version).

Cheers
Tom


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 4, 2014)

Lupez, if you are thinking about running a _serious_ amount of the Hollywood Series, and I agree that nothing out there sounds "better", just different, then the best option IMHO is an iMac with a PC slave running the Hollywood Series in VE Pro from SSDs on the slave. I also run a VE Pro template for Kontakt on my iMac from an SSD. 

I have never been happier with my sound and workflow.


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## Lupez (Dec 5, 2014)

hi guys
thanks everybody for your very knowledgeable input! I'll take in consideration all of your suggestions.



EastWest Lurker @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> Lupez, if you are thinking about running a _serious_ amount of the Hollywood Series, and I agree that nothing out there sounds "better", just different, then the best option IMHO is an iMac with a PC slave running the Hollywood Series in VE Pro from SSDs on the slave. I also run a VE Pro template for Kontakt on my iMac from an SSD.
> 
> I have never been happier with my sound and workflow.



Jay, do you think a top of the line iMac or a entrylevel Macpro with additional RAM can handle a non-massive use of the Hollywood series nicely? I work in a room with open mics so I am not keen on adding slave machines...


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## IFM (Dec 5, 2014)

The 27" iMac can handle 32gig of ram and much cheaper than Mac Pro ram. I wouldn't call that limiting...heck I've only ever been at 16 and been happy.

Lupez, what do you mean minimal? Any Hollywood series can be hell on ram in OSX. The Play engine uses some weird programming that none of the others do that causes a large amount of extra ram to get tied up in buffers. This is why like Jay I run a PC slave. You can build a suitable machine very quiet with the proper components. If you must stay on one machine than for sure get a Mac Pro and fill it with gobs of ram.

Chris


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## Lupez (Dec 5, 2014)

Dragonwind @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> The 27" iMac can handle 32gig of ram and much cheaper than Mac Pro ram. I wouldn't call that limiting...heck I've only ever been at 16 and been happy.
> 
> Lupez, what do you mean minimal? Any Hollywood series can be hell on ram in OSX. The Play engine uses some weird programming that none of the others do that causes a large amount of extra ram to get tied up in buffers. This is why like Jay I run a PC slave. You can build a suitable machine very quiet with the proper components. If you must stay on one machine than for sure get a Mac Pro and fill it with gobs of ram.
> 
> Chris




How much did you spend on your slave machine?
Besides studio work, I happen to write jingles and short instrumentals, so we are talking small templates here. 
My knowledge of pro orchestral libraries is close to zero, but since I am upgrading I'd like to know I could run them if I wanted to...of course I could always add a slave as needs arise I guess.


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## kclements (Dec 5, 2014)

Just to give you an idea. My setup is a 2010 27" iMac with 2.93 GHz Core i7. 16 GB Ram, 1 Tb internal hard drive, one external hard drive via FW800. Apogee duet FW chained to the external hard drive. 

I routinely run LA Scoring Strings sections (VLNS, VLAS, CELLOS, BASSES) with a couple articulations - usually say Pizz and Stac for each section. I run 5-8 instances of Omnisphere, 1 or 2 of Trillain, an E Piano, Acoustic Piano, 4 or 5 percussion tracks from Spitfire Audio, a drummer track and maybe a synth or two. Usually one instance of SoundDesigner, sometimes 2, a couple of Valhalla verbs, some EQ, T-Racks and a few other plugs. 

Rarely do I run out of room on this rig. If my Strings are really heavily used and a lot going all at once, and a lot of Omnisphere heavy end patches going, this iMac will stumble. And I am starting to see, as I write more complicated arrangements, more complaining from the iMac. But really, for most of the stuff I have been doing - so far, this machine has been amazing. 

I could put another 16GB of RAM in which would really help. Also, going to SSD would be big. But I am saving my pennies for a MP, which I think will last me a very long time.

Cheers
kc


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 5, 2014)

Lupez @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> hi guys
> thanks everybody for your very knowledgeable input! I'll take in consideration all of your suggestions.
> 
> 
> ...



The limitation with the iMac is 32 GB.The Hollywood Series can gobble that up pretty quickly.You probably however could do a fair amuont with the new entry level Mac Pro with 64 GB.


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## Lupez (Dec 5, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> The limitation with the iMac is 32 GB.The Hollywood Series can gobble that up pretty quickly.You probably however could do a fair amuont with the new entry level Mac Pro with 64 GB.



this is shocking! :shock:


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 5, 2014)

Lupez @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> > The limitation with the iMac is 32 GB.The Hollywood Series can gobble that up pretty quickly.You probably however could do a fair amuont with the new entry level Mac Pro with 64 GB.
> ...



Well, we are talking about 4 libraries


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## Lupez (Dec 5, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> Well, we are talking about 4 libraries



so basically what you are saying is that the Hollywood Series needs a dedicated computer to run....how much did you spend for your slave?


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 5, 2014)

Lupez @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, we are talking about 4 libraries
> ...



The first one I built for around $1800. It was great but limited to 24 GB and greedy me, I wanted more RAM. I then sold it and bought a more powerful one from forum member Judson Crane for $1400 that he originally spent about $3000 on as he put the top of the line everything that was available at that time., So I was lucky in my timing.

But you certainly can build a _very_ good one for under 2k.


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## Lupez (Dec 5, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> But you certainly can build a _very_ good one for under 2k.



2k would buy me an awful lot of ram for my Mac...!


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 5, 2014)

Lupez @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> > But you certainly can build a _very_ good one for under 2k.
> ...



But not as much bang for buck. But whatever choice you make, good luck. I have no dog in that hunt other than trying to give people my best advice.


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## Lupez (Dec 5, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> But not as much bang for buck. But whatever choice you make, good luck. I have no dog in that hunt other than trying to give people my best advice.



Jay, I much appreciate your input, I was just wondering why not simply adding more RAM...

thanks!


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 5, 2014)

Lupez @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> > But not as much bang for buck. But whatever choice you make, good luck. I have no dog in that hunt other than trying to give people my best advice.
> ...



Because the Hollywood Series unfortunately needs more RAM on the Mac than on the PC Also, if you ad more RAM to the Mac you get more memory but not more CPU power whereas if you put that money into a slave PC you get both.


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## Lupez (Dec 5, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> Because the Hollywood Series unfortunately needs more RAM on the Mac than on the PC Also, if you ad more RAM to the Mac you get more memory but not more CPU power whereas if you put that money into a slave PC you get both.



Understood, thanks!


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## Simon Ravn (Dec 6, 2014)

germancomponist @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> Lupez @ Thu Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> > I've loved Macs since I was a kid in the 80s, so I am happy to be a customer again.
> ...



Wait a minute... wanting to use a Mac for music production is a BELIEF? What is using a PC then?


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## IFM (Dec 6, 2014)

Lupez @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> How much did you spend on your slave machine?
> Besides studio work, I happen to write jingles and short instrumentals, so we are talking small templates here.
> My knowledge of pro orchestral libraries is close to zero, but since I am upgrading I'd like to know I could run them if I wanted to...of course I could always add a slave as needs arise I guess.



I built it a while ago then upgraded the MB to allow more RAM and next I need to put a faster CPU in. It is an AMD actually. Sure Intel is great and eventually will build a bigger Intel machine but I've always had great luck with AMD.
I only spend about $500 on the whole thing. It is a quad core over 3ghz with 24gigs of RAM and SSD's running Pro7. 
It runs HS, HB, and SC with no issues on VEP. I use one instrument per track via Logic and have articulations set on different channels. 

Once I update the CPU I'll have some extra headroom as it is on the edge sometimes in a heavy project but I've not been hindered by it. I don't run the CPU intense HS patches either as I found little value in the added overhead.

Chris


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## markstyles (Dec 6, 2014)

This whole new Mac Pro seems a bit overwhelming..
I have a slew of hard drives I need access too.. 

Will USB3 be fast enough to run several Libraries at once.. With Thunderbolt 1 and 2.. I'm concerned over that.. Plus everything is so ridiculously expensive.. 

In the past i error on the side of more power, and it always payed off.. My length of use was longer than a slower processor or less cores.. 

Now everyone says 12 cores is out of the question for audio. And I won't spend that much on a computer.. I'm tempted to go with 8 cores, which is already more than I'm willing to spend.. 

But I see, U-he, Synthmaster, Serum, Spectral, KarmFX, all really sucking up a lot of CPU.. So I expect the trend among 3rd parties is to use as much CPU as they need, again draining a 4 core and possibly a 6 core.. 

I have Esata, USB 3, fireware 800 and 6 drives installed in Mac Pro 8... I don't won't to break down and buy 5 or more Terrabyte drives. I can't afford to re-invest all that..


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## jcrosby (Dec 6, 2014)

I'd personally recommend buying a second hand 2012 Mac Pro. Most folks on here will think I'm crazy for suggesting that but check out some of the peripherals you can stick inside a 2012 that you can't on a new pro (or other models) without an external box… (Let alone it supports up to 128 GB RAM and you're not limited to 10.9 or Yosemite, unless you prefer those OS's.)

*This PCIe SSD will read up to 2150 MB/sec, and OSX compatible.* 
http://www.macmall.com/p/Edge-Memory-Po ... dp.ieafhad

*OWC Accelsior E2, roughly 750 MB/sec and bootable as a system drive. *
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/PCIe ... lsior/RAID

*You can also buy pre-built CPU upgrades and swap out a slower clock CPU for 3.46 Ghz 12 core.*

Not only that, you can actually remove one (or both DVD drives) and put drive caddies in that will hold 2 SSDs, or an SSD and a 3.5, all kinds of configurations... 
http://eshop.macsales.com/owcpages/multimount/

The downside is that the standard drive bays are SATA II, but I use those to host my project drive and export drives which don't need to be blazing fast anyway… I'm running an Accelsior E2 in mine for all my EW libraries and it is noticeably faster loading Play than the Crucial drive I had on a SATA III PICe adaptor that read at 500 mb/sec...

The reality is you can get them very close to the performance of a new models and you have way more options without having to stick everything in a thunderbolt drive or box. Plus you can open the thing up and change peripherals if you want to… 
And, unless you do Raid, you'll get waaaay better sample bandwidth from one of those drives above than a typical SATA III SSD in a mini or iMac. 

Just an alternative to consider… and hopefully a few tips for anyone else with an aluminum tower Mac Pro.


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## 5Lives (Dec 6, 2014)

Anybody running on a retina Macbook Pro here? I Have a 2009 Mac Pro but it is just too big and heavy for my current needs. I'd like to move to a Macbook Pro - I don't do huge templates, so I'm hoping 16gb will be enough with bounce-in-place.


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## IFM (Dec 6, 2014)

I stream everything from USB3 and is certainly fast enough. 
Chris


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## Zardoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Lupez @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> > But you certainly can build a _very_ good one for under 2k.
> ...



You could build a perfectly acceptable PC slave for under a $1000 in my opinion, less even if you can reuse some parts. As rgames has noted here several times, a beefy expensive processor and super fast Ram have diminishing returns when you are just talking about a sample slave.


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## G.R. Baumann (Dec 7, 2014)

Zardoz @ Sun Dec 07 said:


> ... a beefy expensive processor and super fast Ram have diminishing returns ...



Lupez, as you said, you have 20 years experience in the PC world, hence you will know the above quoted statement to be true.

With that budget however, I would also consider going down the used road and get a 2010 or so MacPro, and then add a new PC as a slave, which can be build for anything around 500-1000 bucks depending on your needs.

That said, you'd probably have some change left after that.


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## Lupez (Dec 7, 2014)

Zardoz @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> Lupez @ Fri Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> > EastWest Lurker @ Fri Dec 05 said:
> ...



I am probably missing / losing something in translation but I don't understand you point here...Jay suggested I use a powerful PC slave instead of adding more RAM for making the most of the external computational abilities of a second machine, but if I get your point correctly your are telling me it's a waste of money? :|


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 7, 2014)

I don't think he is saying that Lupez. I think he is saying it is a better investment than the latest Mac Pros.


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## vocalnick (Dec 8, 2014)

5Lives @ Sun Dec 07 said:


> Anybody running on a retina Macbook Pro here? I Have a 2009 Mac Pro but it is just too big and heavy for my current needs. I'd like to move to a Macbook Pro - I don't do huge templates, so I'm hoping 16gb will be enough with bounce-in-place.



I use a 15" retina MacBook Pro as my main rig for the moment. 16GB RAM & a 512MB SSD, with all samples streaming over USB3 from an external HDD. Didn't skip a beat over 52 episodes of animation scoring & sound design 

I'm using smallish templates though - fast turnaround "broad strokes" arrangements rather than having a gazillion articulations loaded. For that type of work it's been fantastic.

It spends most of its time "docked" to a thunderbolt hub, driving three 22" monitors. But if I need to hit the road I just undock, grab my projects drive & my samples drive (both buss-powered 2.5" units) and I'm off.

I'll be laptop based for as long as my templates let me get away with it


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## Vision (Dec 22, 2014)

This is exactly what I did. I should be receiving my machine later this week. I'm jumping from a 2008, 8 core 3.2 ghz, to a 2012 12 core 3.46. I'm already using 1 accelsior pci-e 960 in the 2008, that I've been using as a sample drive for almost 2 years now, and it definitely added a few years to my old mac. 

Just couldn't justify spending the money on a nMP, and external TB drives. And the graphics card in the nMP is useless to me. I've added two more accelsior e2 cards to the 2012 machine and 128 gigs of RAM. My current Mac Pro has been a trooper for almost 6 years, so I'm expecting (hoping for) at least 3 times the performance. 

Hoooly crap, I had no clue about that Edge Memory card! My plan was to use one of the accelsior pci-e cards as a boot drive, and the other two as sample playback drives.

Does anyone here have that Edge Memory pci card? I'd love to know how well it's holding up. Is it stable enough to use as a boot drive? Also, are those speeds accessible through the x4 2.0 slots as well as th x16 2.0 pci-e slots?




jcrosby @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> I'd personally recommend buying a second hand 2012 Mac Pro. Most folks on here will think I'm crazy for suggesting that but check out some of the peripherals you can stick inside a 2012 that you can't on a new pro (or other models) without an external box… (Let alone it supports up to 128 GB RAM and you're not limited to 10.9 or Yosemite, unless you prefer those OS's.)
> 
> *This PCIe SSD will read up to 2150 MB/sec, and OSX compatible.*
> http://www.macmall.com/p/Edge-Memory-Po ... dp.ieafhad
> ...


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## ThomasL (Dec 22, 2014)

A bit of a different take on the same problem...

I started to look for alternatives to my "ancient" 2008 Mac Pro a few months ago. As I threw more and more soft synths (read: Zebra + impOSCar + Spectre + Cyclops) in Logic at it at the same time as running a bunch of sample libraries in VE-Pro it started to go on its knees, understandable. "Hybrid" scores are demanding.

I don't have the money to get a new Mac Pro with all extras that I would need (exchange my two UAD cards for instance) I decided to take on a different approach.

Since it works just fine with my (somewhat) slimmed sample based template I figured it was the soft synths that took it down, so to speak. I invested in a few hardware synths, access Virus Indigo, Alesis QS8, Korg Wavestation, E-mu Proteus and for the fun of it an Akai S3000XL as well as a Roland R-8M. I even managed to get hold of an old 28 channel mixing desk that a friend was about to throw away!

I must say that right now I'm having quite a lot of fun again, you know that childish explorer-like fun one used to have back in the early nineties when 2 lines with 16 characters each was all that an LCD could manage. "I wonder what happens if..."

It all holds up pretty good. Shop around on second hand sites, you never know what might turn up. No, it's not as powerful as getting a new Mac but I'll keep having fun until I have the money at least 

I know, this might not be an option for everybody but I wanted to share nonetheless.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 22, 2014)

For that same price you could have built a slave PC.


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## ThomasL (Dec 22, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ 2014-12-23 said:


> For that same price you could have built a slave PC.


Yeah, you're probably right. I spent around $1100 in total. But I don't want a PC, not to run soft synths on anyway


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## NYC Composer (Dec 22, 2014)

Vision @ Mon Dec 22 said:


> This is exactly what I did. I should be receiving my machine later this week. I'm jumping from a 2008, 8 core 3.2 ghz, to a 2012 12 core 3.46. I'm already using 1 accelsior pci-e 960 in the 2008, that I've been using as a sample drive for almost 2 years now, and it definitely added a few years to my old mac.
> 
> Just couldn't justify spending the money on a nMP, and external TB drives. And the graphics card in the nMP is useless to me. I've added two more accelsior e2 cards to the 2012 machine and 128 gigs of RAM. My current Mac Pro has been a trooper for almost 6 years, so I'm expecting (hoping for) at least 3 times the performance.
> 
> ...



Hey Peter- long time no see- happy holidays 

I remember when we talked and you had bought the pci-e 960 gig for an outrageous amount- turns out you were prescient.

I bought a Mini with SSDs, but now that 2012 MP looks pretty intriguing as well. Ain't this a great forum? Cheers.


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## madbulk (Dec 22, 2014)

And what did that run you in the end, Peter?

I'm in the same boat with an old 2008 machine looking at the new MP paradigm with trepidation.


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## Vision (Dec 24, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Mon Dec 22 said:


> Hey Peter- long time no see- happy holidays
> 
> I remember when we talked and you had bought the pci-e 960 gig for an outrageous amount- turns out you were prescient.
> 
> I bought a Mini with SSDs, but now that 2012 MP looks pretty intriguing as well. Ain't this a great forum? Cheers.




Hey there, happy holidays Larry. Yeah, been sorta absent lately, and have been catching up on a few of the latest threads. I did notice that you are using a Mac mini. 

I actually hadn't planned on making a decision this early. I was going to wait and see what apple was going to do for 2015. A friend of mine sent me an edit builder ad, in which they heavily discounted a custom hex 3.46 Mac Pro.. From 8k to about $5,400. Peaked my interest enough to do a little more research. Pulled the trigger (not with the edit builder mac), but went with a different vendor on spec'd 2012 3.46 12core Mac Pro that I was able to configure to my liking. 

The reasoning that led me to a decision:

1.) cost of an equivalent nMP would be more than double the price, for relatively the same performance. Yes the nMP has thunderbolt, and faster throughput. But I don't honestly need the fastest, when pce ssd's are fast enough. I also don't need a fast graphics card, which imo they are forcing on me.

2.) ease of migrating my drives; I'd have less downtime. Should be able to just pop in my 3,1 drives to 5,1 machine and get to work, baring some software reauthorizations. 

3.) PCI-e. Obviously it's now widely known that we can use these cards to achieve Sata III speeds. Thunderbolt is great, but at what cost?

4.) expandability; I'll have all of my drives in one box, at this point 7, that's roughly 7 Terabytes. No buying external TB bays, as well as other miscellaneous peripherals.

5.) Ram. While the 1333mhz ddr3 is slower than 1866 on the nMP, to utilize 128 gigs of ram on a nMP you will have to sacrifice the speed back down to 1066mhz, and on server class models 800 MHz.. What?! Plus it costs more. http://macperformanceguide.com/MacPro20 ... width.html

6.) no new info on how the nMP is doing with Logic Pro. It simply isn't a proven machine imo. I've talked with Sharmat many times.. stressed his nMP 8 core out when he first got it. While it seemed decent, the performance seemed to be marginally better than his stock 2012 12 core 2.92ghz (as far as I could tell). Recently talked to him, and he basically said.. Paraphrasing: "yeah it's workin out ok, but for the price I am a bit underwhelmed." 

7.) use my 2008 as a slave. 

8.) I don't use PLAY anymore. Well that's not entirely true, I do use Spaces, and MoR from time to time. But uninstalled HB and HS. If I decide to want to use the Hollywood series again, see number 7.) above.

I might be missing other factors, but you get the idea. Obviously it's a bit of a gamble. Biggest con of getting an older machine is obviously obsolescence (especially OS wise). I'm hoping this machine will last me at least me a good 4 years. Judging from what I've been able to squeeze out of my 2008, I hope I'm cool. 

I also know from doing a few template tests on my 2008, based on my needs and my VI plug-in choices, that I could probably do fine with using 150 or so tracks for an orchestral template, with room to spare.

My overall conclusion.. Apple will probably update the nMP next year. But the form factor will probably be the same. Sure you can get to work with a nMP, no question. But the more and more I looked at it, I just don't feel that they made this machine with me in mind.


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## NYC Composer (Dec 24, 2014)

Peter- thanks for the comprehensive reply. It has sure seemed you've been able to run a lot on that 2008 Mac Pro. I'm retrofitting mine with SSDS in 3gig SATA mode to see the difference (if there is much- anecditally it might be ok for my needs). I still run a lot of Play though.

What are your main strings these days?


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## Vision (Dec 24, 2014)

madbulk @ Mon Dec 22 said:


> And what did that run you in the end, Peter?
> 
> I'm in the same boat with an old 2008 machine looking at the new MP paradigm with trepidation.




Initially priced a 2010 at $2700. Additions were 128GB ram, ati Radeon 5870, and one 960GB mercury accelsior e2. Total came to $4772.00

Revised my order to a 2012.. Same spec as the 2010, but newer (since it's a write, off I figured I'd spend the extra cash for it). $3500. Added 128 ram, Radeon 5870, and this time 2 accelsior 960's. Overall came to about $6400. It's a lot, but considering the extras I think it's a decent deal. 

Worse case.. If it doesn't work out, I think I can sell this machine, and not take a huge loss.


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## Vision (Dec 24, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Wed Dec 24 said:


> Peter- thanks for the comprehensive reply. It has sure seemed you've been able to run a lot on that 2008 Mac Pro. I'm retrofitting mine with SSDS in 3gig SATA mode to see the difference (if there is much- anecditally it might be ok for my needs). I still run a lot of Play though.
> 
> What are your main strings these days?



Mostly 8dio adagio series, and cinesamples. But I also still use symphobia, and Albion series. I also tend to layer different libraries a lot. I may consider picking up a Berlin strings expansion series in the future. I do like HS, and miss a few patches here and there. But I think Berlin fills the gap a bit.. So between Berlin, 8dio, and cinesamples, I think I'd be covered.

Edit: forgot to mention I tend to use Vienna instruments from time to time well, especially chamber strings. I may start using it more once I get this machine. Also.. Honorable mention: embertone, cinematic strings 2, and lass. Admittedly don't use lass and cinematic strings 2 much lately, not to say they are bad libraries. But I'm just using what I'm comfortable with.


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