# Spitfire Epic Brass and Woodwinds



## filipjonathan (Dec 18, 2019)

What do you guys think?






Spitfire Audio — Originals - Essential Cinematic Ingredients


A series of instant writing tools for £29 $29 €29



www.spitfireaudio.com


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## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 18, 2019)

trajev said:


> What do you guys think?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It doesn't look like they've posted any videos that walk through the articulations yet.


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## mralmostpopular (Dec 18, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> It doesn't look like they've posted any videos that walk through the articulations yet.



I just watched one. It’s on the quick start guide page. It has live, long, and short on brass and also on woodwinds. The release on the brass sounds like it has an out of tune trumpet, though. Weird.

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/originals/quick-start-guide/ (Quick Start Guide)


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## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 18, 2019)

mralmostpopular said:


> I just watched one. It’s on the quick start guide page. It has live, long, and short on brass and also on woodwinds. The release on the brass sounds like it has an out of tune trumpet, though. Weird.
> 
> https://www.spitfireaudio.com/originals/quick-start-guide/ (Quick Start Guide)


Right, I'm talking about the kind of walkthrough that shows off the sound. I mostly just want to hear the winds.


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## Scamper (Dec 18, 2019)

I played around with the patches in hopes of getting some of that beautiful quality, that the legacy Albion 1 sounds had. Despite lacking the flexibilty of the splitup ensembles, it's good, that people can get those good old sounds, now.
The sound is still good and appropriate for the price. I'm also not sure about the live patches. They should combine shorts and longs, but don't react to CC1 and have dynamics by velocity, which is a bit weird these days.


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## Henu (Dec 18, 2019)

I'm so jealous to beginning composers in 2019 compared what I could afford 20 years earlier. :(


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## CT (Dec 18, 2019)

Henu said:


> I'm so jealous to beginning composers in 2019 compared what I could afford 20 years earlier. :(



It is pretty neat! Not only for beginners, but also for those of us who don't do much music that calls for the cinematic Albion sound, but would like to have a quality toolkit to pull out on those rare occasions.



Scamper said:


> I played around with the patches in hopes of getting some of that beautiful quality, that the legacy Albion 1 sounds had, but it's not quite the same anymore.



It's the same sample content. Not sure how it could be anything other than the same.


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## mralmostpopular (Dec 18, 2019)

miket said:


> It is pretty neat! Not only for beginners, but also for those of us who don't do much music that calls for the cinematic Albion sound, but would like to have a quality toolkit to pull out on those rare occasions.



I agree. I have a lot of stuff already in my toolkit, so I don’t need it, but for someone looking to add a little bit of something to their kit without breaking the bank, this is awesome. $60 for strings, brass, and woodwinds is pretty nice.


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## MauroPantin (Dec 18, 2019)

I snatched them a couple of hours ago and just noodled with them a bit before going to grab a bite. The Brass is ok as far as first impressions go, although I'm not sure I like the way it is pre-orchestrated with 8ves all over the place, I need to delve a little deeper and in finer detail to really make up my mind on that.

The woodwinds, on the other hand, I really, really liked. They have a very Alien/Jerry-Goldsmith quality to them, particularly the shorts. I'm a fan of that slightly ethereal woodwind sound.

As with the strings, it is great for sketching and doing quick tests in timbre when separating a piano composition.


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## Syneast (Dec 18, 2019)

I must say I'm disappointed with the dynamic crossfades. You can clearly hear the transitions. Nowhere near as good as they are in Albion Legacy. I wish they would have improved them over Legacy like they did for Epic Strings, but oh well.

Also the tightness control doesn't seem to do anything to the Brass shorts room mic for me. Maybe it's just too subtle for my brain to pick it up.

Shame the mid brass wasn't included. That's probably my most used patch from Legacy.

This is a cool product for beginners and laptops I suppose, but I'm still glad I bought Albion Legacy before it vanished.


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## davidson (Dec 18, 2019)

trajev said:


> What do you guys think?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think $29 does not = £29. Good old british businesses helping out fellow brits, thanks


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## Scamper (Dec 18, 2019)

miket said:


> It's the same sample content. Not sure how it could be anything other than the same.



Right, my mistake. Next to velocity, CC1 is also influencing the dynamics for the shorts and it seems to set the lower limit for the dynamics. Threw me off a bit.

What the changed though is the tuning for the sounds, but well, I liked the character of the detuned legacy sounds.



Land of Missing Parts said:


> Right, I'm talking about the kind of walkthrough that shows off the sound. I mostly just want to hear the winds.



If this helps, here is some of the woodwinds, shorts and longs.


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## filipjonathan (Dec 18, 2019)

MauroPantin said:


> I snatched them a couple of hours ago and just noodled with them a bit before going to grab a bite. The Brass is ok as far as first impressions go, although I'm not sure I like the way it is pre-orchestrated with 8ves all over the place, I need to delve a little deeper and in finer detail to really make up my mind on that.
> 
> The woodwinds, on the other hand, I really, really liked. They have a very Alien/Jerry-Goldsmith quality to them, particularly the shorts. I'm a fan of that slightly ethereal woodwind sound.
> 
> As with the strings, it is great for sketching and doing quick tests in timbre when separating a piano composition.


Let us know after you've played around with it a bit


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## filipjonathan (Dec 18, 2019)

Scamper said:


> Right, my mistake. Next to velocity, CC1 is also influencing the dynamics for the shorts and it seems to set the lower limit for the dynamics. Threw me off a bit.
> 
> What the changed though is the tuning for the sounds, but well, I liked the character of the detuned legacy sounds.
> 
> ...


That actually sounds really nice! Do you think you could send me the midi file?


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## Scamper (Dec 18, 2019)

trajev said:


> That actually sounds really nice! Do you think you could send me the midi file?



Yeah, these legacy woodwinds at low dynamics are really lovely.
Here's the MIDI:


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## filipjonathan (Dec 18, 2019)

Scamper said:


> Yeah, these legacy woodwinds at low dynamics are really lovely.
> Here's the MIDI:


Thank you!! :D


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## angeruroth (Dec 18, 2019)

Henu said:


> I'm so jealous to beginning composers in 2019 compared what I could afford 20 years earlier. :(


Think of it this way: some young talent may fall in love for orchestral music and/or samples thanks to the affordability, and we could enjoy their music if that happens.
And you may be the one who made that gift to a child not knowing if he/she would like that thing, because the price is good enough to risk rejection and abandonment of the musical gifts  (yup, a computer is required, but you know what I mean).

Damn, I just revealed my _malefic_ Christmas plan!


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## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 18, 2019)

Scamper said:


> If this helps, here is some of the woodwinds, shorts and longs.


Thanks Scamper.


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## Manuel Stumpf (Dec 18, 2019)

From the looks of it, these Originals series runs in a customized Spitfire Player, that is neither like the HZ Strings player nor like the BBCSO player, but seems to be another variation of that player?
If that holds true, Spitfire is creating an own plugin for each product?
What is next? The Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra player?
Oh boy. This will become a nightmare to support on the long run.

All others have created a single player application and run all their products in that one player (East West Play, NI Kontakt, Orchestral Tools's SINE).


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## mralmostpopular (Dec 18, 2019)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> From the looks of it, these Originals series runs in a customized Spitfire Player, that is neither like the HZ Strings player nor like the BBCSO player, but seems to be another variation of that player?
> If that holds true, Spitfire is creating an own plugin for each product?
> What is next? The Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra player?
> Oh boy. This will become a nightmare to support on the long run.
> ...



It’s all the same player with a slightly different skin. This seems closer to the LABs design. I don’t know how it’s any different than any Kontakt library. The GUI is customized for each library.


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 18, 2019)

Yep, I’d imagine the various players utilise the same code under the hood.

For 30 notes, a steal. I wonder if OG Albion 2 will be reworked as “Intimate Strings” etc..


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## Manuel Stumpf (Dec 18, 2019)

mralmostpopular said:


> It’s all the same player with a slightly different skin. This seems closer to the LABs design. I don’t know how it’s any different than any Kontakt library. The GUI is customized for each library.





Alex Fraser said:


> Yep, I’d imagine the various players utilise the same code under the hood.
> 
> For 30 notes, a steal. I wonder if OG Albion 2 will be reworked as “Intimate Strings” etc..


I have no doubt it uses the same basic codebase underneath.
But every and each time this code must be compiled into an executable. What is not a problem in the first place.
But once you find a bug/improvement that you need to fix in that code. You basically have to rebuilt every product, redeploy everything to the users..., instead of just one executable.
Let's hope for the best.

I don't have it but I also have the feeling what you can get here for 29 bucks is worth it.


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## colony nofi (Dec 18, 2019)

oh its REALLY worth 29bucks. Amazing value.


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## TintoL (Dec 18, 2019)

To me these products really feel like a way to create a "trial version of the new player".

If this is the case, i am afraid they might loose that battle.

This player, comparing it to the new OT sine is very weak.


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## CT (Dec 18, 2019)

I don't know. I've made more music with the SF Player (a lot) than I have with SINE (none).


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## ka00 (Dec 18, 2019)

Henu said:


> I'm so jealous to beginning composers in 2019 compared what I could afford 20 years earlier. :(



True. But if everything I’ve been hearing is also true, composers starting today won’t have the same prospects for earning the kind of money that composers who started 20 years ago earned (and in turn could afford to invest in gear). So the jealousy could work both ways and maybe it’s all a wash.


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 18, 2019)

TintoL said:


> To me these products really feel like a way to create a "trial version of the new player".
> 
> If this is the case, i am afraid they might loose that battle.
> 
> This player, comparing it to the new OT sine is very weak.


Perhaps apples and oranges? I don't really think there's a "Spitfire Player" as such. These are just simple interfaces to play some Spitfire sounds, fuss free.

I agree - Sine seems to have much loftier ambitions. No bad thing, but I think the Spitfire vs OT player thing is a non starter. I think the two companies have different goals.


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## jaketanner (Dec 18, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Right, I'm talking about the kind of walkthrough that shows off the sound. I mostly just want to hear the winds.


This is just Albion one sounds...nothing great or magical, especially in the winds. Unless of course it's not Albion, but I do believe that it's all it is.


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## filipjonathan (Dec 18, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> This is just Albion one sounds...nothing great or magical, especially in the winds. Unless of course it's not Albion, but I do believe that it's all it is.


I find it very interesting how opinions differ. I read somewhere (maybe even in this thread) that someone especially liked the winds hehe.


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## robgb (Dec 18, 2019)

Aren't these just old Albion 1 samples?


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## jaketanner (Dec 18, 2019)

trajev said:


> I find it very interesting how opinions differ. I read somewhere (maybe even in this thread) that someone especially liked the winds hehe.


The combined winds in Albion One sound like a pipe organ. They are usable, but probably only in an epic context really and not exposed. But there seems to be some mystery as to where they are getting these samples from. I thought that I did read that the strings were Albion One...so assuming that winds and brass are also.


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## filipjonathan (Dec 18, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> The combined winds in Albion One sound like a pipe organ. They are usable, but probably only in an epic context really and not exposed. But there seems to be some mystery as to where they are getting these samples from. I thought that I did read that the strings were Albion One...so assuming that winds and brass are also.


Yeah, Originals FAQ does say the samples are from Albion I legacy.


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## AllanH (Dec 18, 2019)

it looks like a subset of the Albion I (legacy) instruments/articulations. It sounds good and is well programmed. I really like the distortion option. This will find use in at least the low brass.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 18, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> But there seems to be some mystery as to where they are getting these samples from.


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## sostenuto (Dec 18, 2019)

*(EDIT)*
Sincere, serious, fairly long-time participant here __ with many SFA Libs.
I have the Albions ..... may pass away before detailed enjoyment, and analysis, of every single. patch.
Never had any precise clue what of Albion 1 is missing from Albion ONE.


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## CT (Dec 18, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> Sincere, serious, fairly long time participant here __ with many SFA Libs. I'm so freakin' sick of Albion Legacy bs, it may truly put me off to SINE, or HALion, something else.
> I have the Albions. May pass away before detailed enjoyment, and analysis, of every single. patch.
> 
> Either SFA can step up and clarify precisely what they are offering, or choose to attract ongoing, gaseous posting about Albion 1 'Legacy'.
> ...



Why so angry, friend? I do think you're off the mark here a bit. It's quite clear what's being offered.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 18, 2019)

miket said:


> Why so angry, friend? I do think you're off the mark here a bit. It's quite clear what's being offered.


Albion Legacy was taken off the market when they recorded new material and released Albion One. Now the original recordings are being made available as affordable simple instruments.


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## sostenuto (Dec 18, 2019)

Precisely my problem. You may be clear, but I am not. No anger, just frustration over years of Albion 1 vs Albion One and seemingly strong preferences for Albion 1. Now these new Player Libs and more references to Albion 1 (Legacy). 
Happy to go to some reference link which makes this more straightforward.

@ Land of Missing Parts ___ pleased to get this content for small $$$ if Epic Strings / Brass & WW provide the original stuff. My problem if this has not been obvious.


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 18, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Albion Legacy was taken off the market when they recorded new material and released Albion One. Now the original recordings are being made available as affordable simple instruments.


Yep, and for folk like myself who missed out on the original Albion I, it's a welcome bonus.

And for $29. Let's all join hands and repeat the price over and over again.


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## jononotbono (Dec 18, 2019)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> From the looks of it, these Originals series runs in a customized Spitfire Player, that is neither like the HZ Strings player nor like the BBCSO player, but seems to be another variation of that player?
> If that holds true, Spitfire is creating an own plugin for each product?
> What is next? The Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra player?
> Oh boy. This will become a nightmare to support on the long run.
> ...



I think it’s been very obvious from day 1 of the Spitfire Player release that everything will get ported over to it.

Why wouldn’t it? SA have their own player now so they will want everything they make to use it. Whether thats a good thing or a bad thing is subjective obviously.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 18, 2019)

If they never updated Albion Legacy, some folks would be grumpy that they don't update their products. If they update Albion, some folks will be grumpy that it sounds different. If they re-release the old sounds for cheap, some folks are grumpy...just because.


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## sostenuto (Dec 18, 2019)

_One of beloved 7 Dwarfs is 'Grumpy'_ 
Quite pleased here if solution is in Cart for $58.


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## CT (Dec 18, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> Happy to go to some reference link which makes this more straightforward.



See Land of Missing Parts' screenshot directly above your initial post.


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## sostenuto (Dec 18, 2019)

Thank-you ! 
Nicely stated in separate paragraphs for Epic Strings & Epic Brass / WW. 
These meet my needs, nicely, for $58. ___ although no sense of what else in Albion 1 remains unavailable. 
Perhaps in future 'Epic' releases


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## CT (Dec 18, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> Thank-you !
> Nicely stated in separate paragraphs for Epic Strings & Epic Brass / WW.
> These meet my needs, nicely, for $58. ___ although no sense of what else in Albion 1 remains unavailable.
> Perhaps in future 'Epic' releases



The percussion and loops sections are forthcoming.


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## jaketanner (Dec 18, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Now the original recordings are being made available as affordable simple instruments.


but Albion ONE includes all the legacy instruments too...so then for people with Albion one, this is redundant.


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 18, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> but Albion ONE includes all the legacy instruments too...so then for people with Albion one, this is redundant.


Albion ONE doesn’t contain all the legacy instruments unfortunately. More like a selection. ☹️


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## jaketanner (Dec 18, 2019)

Alex Fraser said:


> Albion ONE doesn’t contain all the legacy instruments unfortunately. More like a selection. 😉


Damn really? So then Albion One owners would be getting samples that we don't actually have? Didn't realize this.


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 18, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Damn really? So then Albion One owners would be getting samples that we don't actually have? Didn't realize this.


Yep. It’s mainly the long stuff that’s missing from Albion ONE legacy.


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## Sarah Mancuso (Dec 18, 2019)

Albion also included some legato patches, which still haven’t been rereleased in any form.


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## Rex282 (Dec 18, 2019)

I’m a bit confused ?I don’t see anyone mention they got these for free which I did.


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## jaketanner (Dec 18, 2019)

Rex282 said:


> I’m a bit confused ?I don’t see anyone mention they got these for free which I did.


WHAT?? How?


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 18, 2019)

Rex282 said:


> I’m a bit confused ?I don’t see anyone mention they got these for free which I did.





jaketanner said:


> WHAT?? How?


Free for registered owners of the OG Albion I. At least the strings were..


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## jaketanner (Dec 18, 2019)

Alex Fraser said:


> Free for registers owners of the OG Albion I


what is OG? Sorry...I own Albion One, the new version


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 18, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> what is OG? Sorry...I own Albion One, the new version


Sorry, I’m using slang (original gangsta..) Albion I is the old version. Albion ONE is the new version.

So, free for Albion I (old) users presumably as it uses the same sample content.


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## jaketanner (Dec 18, 2019)

Alex Fraser said:


> Sorry, I’m using slang (original gangsta..) Albion I is the old version. Albion ONE is the new version.


Ha.. I kinda knew it from Rap, but didn't realize you'd use it for libraries.. LOL.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 18, 2019)

Henu said:


> I'm so jealous to beginning composers in 2019 compared what I could afford 20 years earlier. :(


So true! Everything was so expensive back then, and there wasn't much to choose from.


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## Rex282 (Dec 18, 2019)

Alex Fraser said:


> Free for registered owners of the OG Albion I. At least the strings were..


Horns and winds also


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## Gerbil (Dec 18, 2019)

I've had the emails offering these new versions but I can't work out what the difference is between them and the original release. Albion legacy has legato patches and you can tinker with the other patches in Kontakt. I'm not sure I want to jam more things on my hard drive just because of a new player.

If you don't own Albion legacy though then these are an absolute bargain.


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## jtnyc (Dec 18, 2019)

Just for context - Albion 1 legacy is 28 gigs. The combined size of Epic Strings and Epic Brass and Woodwinds is less than 4 gigs. Epic Brass and Woodwinds gives you 3 patches for the brass and 3 for the woodwinds. Epic Strings gives you 11.

I did a bit of A/Bing to Legacy and quickly found the original patches that they used. These new patches are very close to the originals, but it sounds like they cleaned them up a bit (less noise in the strings) and there is a tightness dial for the shorts now. They also created a new patch called "Live" that layers a short on top of a long that responds to key velocity without cc cross fading. After all these years I still hear some tuning issues in the brass...

It's a good value for $29 for sure. It's like a taster pack of A1 Legacy. If your well supplied with full orchestral libraries, I don't think it will change your world that much. Albion Legacy does have good mojo and a sweet tone. It also has some bad. Timing, tuning, noise etc. It's part of the charm I guess, but it's just a bit too much for me at times. Having said that, I do prefer it to Albion One which overall feels more clinical.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 18, 2019)

What I want to know is if you can actually switch between articulations in this thing in any way other than clicking the GUI with the mouse.


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## jbuhler (Dec 18, 2019)

jtnyc said:


> After all these years I still hear some tuning issues in the brass...


Yes, I hit one of these tuning problems almost immediately. 

I do like the live mode. They seem like they will be nice for basic sketching. I already used the Albion One woodwinds for sketching, but live mode puts them in a single patch with overlays of shorts and longs. Same for the brass.



Jimmy Hellfire said:


> What I want to know is if you can actually switch between articulations in this thing in any way other than clicking the GUI with the mouse.



I don't think so.


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## davidson (Dec 19, 2019)

How do their live patches work? Is it soft vel for shorts and hard for longs? Can you alter the crossover point?


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## lumcas (Dec 19, 2019)

davidson said:


> I think $29 does not = £29. Good old british businesses helping out fellow brits, thanks


Just wait a few months


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 19, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> What I want to know is if you can actually switch between articulations in this thing in any way other than clicking the GUI with the mouse.


I don't see a way.
You can change the midi channel of the plugin, so you could probably rig up something with expression maps/articulation maps and multiple instances of the plugin.

Articulation switching would be nice, but I guess £29 etc.


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## Scamper (Dec 19, 2019)

davidson said:


> How do their live patches work? Is it soft vel for shorts and hard for longs? Can you alter the crossover point?



It's more like they start to play the short and long samples at the same time. If you just tap the note, you will pretty much only get the short notes and if you hold the note, you will have a long note with the initial attack of the short note at the start.
Velocity controls only dynamics, CC1 unfortunately not.


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## TintoL (Dec 19, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I think it’s been very obvious from day 1 of the Spitfire Player release that everything will get ported over to it.
> 
> Why wouldn’t it? SA have their own player now so they will want everything they make to use it. Whether thats a good thing or a bad thing is subjective obviously.



Exactly my fear. I have way too much stuff from spitfire. I love the sound of the symphonic series. 

My fear with them porting all to the new player is that is not even capable of loading multi instruments like kontakt. That's a big deal because you are limited to what you can load in a vep instance. You run out of channels quickly. 

If they ever port it all, unless they improve that player, i will simply keep my spitfire kontakt versions and switch to OT for new stuff.


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## TintoL (Dec 19, 2019)

Rex282 said:


> I’m a bit confused ?I don’t see anyone mention they got these for free which I did.


I also got it for free. Is obvious they are using samples from libraries you own. And they want you to love that new player. Hence why i say is a trial version of your kontakt product in this new incomplete thing.


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## Will Wilson (Dec 19, 2019)

davidson said:


> I think $29 does not = £29. Good old british businesses helping out fellow brits, thanks



$29 = £22 (and change) + VAT = £26

If you're worried about £3 I can check down the back of the sofa for you?


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## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 19, 2019)

TintoL said:


> My fear with them porting all to the new player is that is not even capable of loading multi instruments like kontakt.


Oy, that's unfortunate. I've not had much of an opinion on the Spitfire player until now. But reading about how Epic Brass and Woodwinds is setup, it seems like:

-No keyswitches
-No multi instruments (which is how I'd get around the keyswitch problem)
-No cc1 control of the Live Mode articulation
-No ability to get under the hood and modify (which is how I'd get around the cc1 control problem in Kontakt)

Those are significant deficiencies; enough that I imagine I simply wouldn't use this instrument. The biggest loss is my ability to customize it.


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## AdrianLeverkühn (Dec 19, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Oy, that's unfortunate. I've not had much of an opinion on the Spitfire player until now. But reading about how Epic Brass and Woodwinds is setup, it seems like:
> 
> -No keyswitches
> -No multi instruments (which is how I'd get around the keyswitch problem)
> ...



Yes, you are right but it's 29€. For that price it is more than enough. I wish I could get it when I started.


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 19, 2019)

I'm not sure a lack of keyswitching is a biggie for me here. It's not like I'll be crafting meticulous melody lines with it.

Also, £29.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 19, 2019)

Alex Fraser said:


> Also, £29.


Right, but I'm saying that I wouldn't end up using it.


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## jbuhler (Dec 19, 2019)

Scamper said:


> It's more like they start to play the short and long samples at the same time. If you just tap the note, you will pretty much only get the short notes and if you hold the note, you will have a long note with the initial attack of the short note at the start.
> Velocity controls only dynamics, CC1 unfortunately not.


Expression works and controls volume in the usual way, so you can shape the long with it. That is useful for sketching even if in most cases you'd want to replace it later.


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## TintoL (Dec 19, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Oy, that's unfortunate. I've not had much of an opinion on the Spitfire player until now. But reading about how Epic Brass and Woodwinds is setup, it seems like:
> 
> -No keyswitches
> -No multi instruments (which is how I'd get around the keyswitch problem)
> ...



CORRECT... EXACTLY IT. Too many limitations for a full library of about 3 to 4 grands ..... Why would i ever switch kontakt for thatttt.....

For sure i would switch to sine.... That is a new composer oriented idea. Specially if it is as ram efficient as it seems to be.


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 19, 2019)

TintoL said:


> CORRECT... EXACTLY IT. Too many limitations for a full library of about 3 to 4 grands ..... Why would i ever switch kontakt for thatttt.....
> 
> For sure i would switch to sine.... That is a new composer oriented idea. Specially if it is as ram efficient as it seems to be.


Unless I'm not reading correctly (and apologies if this is the case) it's probably worth mentioning that..

The bigger Spitfire player libraries (BBCSO etc) do have key switching.
The "live" patch is an originals feature only. The bigger libraries have more sophisticated solutions for this.
You can trigger different articulations via different midi channels in BBCSO and HZ Strings. It's not a full multi setup though. 
It's absolutely not as detailed as OT's Sine - but I'm sure it's not Spitfire's goal to be, either.


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## ManicMiner (Dec 19, 2019)

Is the brass any good? I see there's a Distorted signal path option to get more harmonics into the brass. Has it beefed it up? 
That was the one thing I was disappointed in with Albion One, so I purchased EW Brass Gold. But EW low brass sounds a bit thin to me. The six french horns etc. are fantastic, but I've not got a lower brass sound that I'm happy with.

Btw, has anyone got a another brass library for this they could recommend ?


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## jononotbono (Dec 19, 2019)

TintoL said:


> My fear with them porting all to the new player is that is not even capable of loading multi instruments like kontakt. That's a big deal because you are limited to what you can load in a vep instance. You run out of channels quickly.



I feel the same. I have every patch of the SSO (plus SCS and Ricotti Mallets) all enabled and on my set up, that's only possible using multitimbral.

I say this because as an experiment, I loaded every single patch from HZ Strings in my VEPro template. That's a lot of Spitfire Audio player instances. Having that enabled is fine, and everything works (so no complaints there) but closing VEPro takes over 10 minutes instead of a couple. And it didn't take this long before I put HZ Strings in there. I can only imagine what it would be like having the +1000 patches of SSO loaded, all on separate instances on the Spitfire player.


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## davidson (Dec 19, 2019)

Will Wilson said:


> $29 = £22 (and change) + VAT = £26
> 
> If you're worried about £3 I can check down the back of the sofa for you?



Its the principal, same as with the ton offer they ran. Just because it looks cute for the marketing team to have three matching numbers across different currencies shouldn't mean we (brits) have to pay the extra.

I'll message you my address for the £3, thanks for that.


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## ManicMiner (Dec 19, 2019)

davidson said:


> Its the principal, same as with the ton offer they ran. Just because it looks cute for the marketing team to have three matching numbers across different currencies shouldn't mean we (brits) have to pay the extra.
> 
> I'll message you my address for the £3, thanks for that.


I sympathise a little. I am a Brit living in the U.S. Things are just cheaper here, from electronic goods to petrol (gas) etc.
But what I think is going on with Spitfire is _price psychology_ with the number 29. People are much more likely to buy a product at 29 than 31. There's a lot of psychology in sales (numbers, colours, wording, etc.), I don't thing they purposefully set out to advantage Americans over Brits.


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## jbuhler (Dec 19, 2019)

ManicMiner said:


> I sympathise a little. I am a Brit living in the U.S. Things are just cheaper here, from electronic goods to petrol (gas) etc.
> But what I think is going on with Spitfire is _price psychology_ with the number 29. People are much more likely to buy a product at 29 than 31. There's a lot of psychology in sales (numbers, colours, wording, etc.), I don't thing they purposefully set out to advantage Americans over Brits.


I thought SF was placing a currency bet by discouraging purchases in pounds so they can accumulate more of their cash in other currencies. (Only sort of joking.)


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## TintoL (Dec 19, 2019)

Alex Fraser said:


> Unless I'm not reading correctly (and apologies if this is the case) it's probably worth mentioning that..
> 
> The bigger Spitfire player libraries (BBCSO etc) do have key switching.
> The "live" patch is an originals feature only. The bigger libraries have more sophisticated solutions for this.
> ...


I hope its really the case and SF don't want that player to stay like that. 

I know the player is not useless. But it's for sure not friendly with template workflow.


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## zimm83 (Dec 19, 2019)

The kontakt player is ...... Laughing...


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## TintoL (Dec 19, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I feel the same. I have every patch of the SSO (plus SCS and Ricotti Mallets) all enabled and on my set up, that's only possible using multitimbral.
> 
> I say this because as an experiment, I loaded every single patch from HZ Strings in my VEPro template. That's a lot of Spitfire Audio player instances. Having that enabled is fine, and everything works (so no complaints there) but closing VEPro takes over 10 minutes instead of a couple. And it didn't take this long before I put HZ Strings in there. I can only imagine what it would be like having the +1000 patches of SSO loaded, all on separate instances on the Spitfire player.


WOW...YOU ARE ACTUALLY CONFIRMING MY FEAR WITH ACTUAL TESTING DATA... 

I have every SFSO patch loaded in vep. Doing this with that new player would be totaly stupid.


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## dcoscina (Dec 19, 2019)

I got an email yesterday re: these since I own the original Albion. I downloaded and I'm playing right now. I dunno guys, it sounds pretty good to me.. the 8ve longs are really quite nice when you add a bit more release to the sample. I like that it's easy to save your own edited versions as well.


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## jononotbono (Dec 19, 2019)

TintoL said:


> WOW...YOU ARE ACTUALLY CONFIRMING MY FEAR WITH ACTUAL TESTING DATA...



Please don't take this as Gospel. But I could time it with HZ Strings enabled and disabled see what the difference is of Shutdown times when I have the time (would be a rather dull Video haha). And there's no baseline to compare it to as HZ Strings isn't in Kontakt. I can only base it from the times with SSO in Kontakt and VEPro.


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## sostenuto (Dec 19, 2019)

jtnyc said:


> Just for context - Albion 1 legacy is 28 gigs. The combined size of Epic Strings and Epic Brass and Woodwinds is less than 4 gigs. Epic Brass and Woodwinds gives you 3 patches for the brass and 3 for the woodwinds. Epic Strings gives you 11.
> 
> I did a bit of A/Bing to Legacy and quickly found the original patches that they used. These new patches are very close to the originals, but it sounds like they cleaned them up a bit (less noise in the strings) and there is a tightness dial for the shorts now. They also created a new patch called "Live" that layers a short on top of a long that responds to key velocity without cc cross fading. After all these years I still hear some tuning issues in the brass...
> 
> It's a good value for $29 for sure. It's like a taster pack of A1 Legacy. If your well supplied with full orchestral libraries, I don't think it will change your world that much. Albion Legacy does have good mojo and a sweet tone. It also has some bad. Timing, tuning, noise etc. It's part of the charm I guess, but it's just a bit too much for me at times. Having said that, I do prefer it to Albion One which overall feels more clinical.




THX for cool post !  ___ surely my problem for not thoroughly searching Albion 1 /ONE differences over several years, and built up unnecessary frustration. 
This Thread, and your new post have truly helped move forward .... especially with your excellent A/B of Epics to Legacy. 
$58. is indeed very affordable, but I still did not have full understanding of what Legacy contained vs what Epic(s) provide.

Regards


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## Scamper (Dec 19, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> Expression works and controls volume in the usual way, so you can shape the long with it. That is useful for sketching even if in most cases you'd want to replace it later.



Right, but it's still weird, that they didn't use the CC1 dynamic fade, since it's right there for the long patch and it would have made a nice performance patch. For me, the velocity based dynamics for longs feel like a 15 year old library, where it was like this for most patches, as in EWQL SO. That together with the need for volume fades feels uncomfortable enough for me not to use it, if you have any alternative with proper dynamic fades, like even the longs.


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## jtnyc (Dec 19, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> THX for cool post !  ___ surely my problem for not thoroughly searching Albion 1 /ONE differences over several years, and built up unnecessary frustration.
> This Thread, and your new post have truly helped move forward .... especially with your excellent A/B of Epics to Legacy.
> $58. is indeed very affordable, but I still did not have full understanding of what Legacy contained vs what Epic(s) provide.
> 
> Regards


Here are some pics of what Legacy has. Like I said, the new Epic libs are like tasters, just a few patches


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## jbuhler (Dec 19, 2019)

Scamper said:


> Right, but it's still weird, that they didn't use the CC1 dynamic fade, since it's right there for the long patch and it would have made a nice performance patch. For me, the velocity based dynamics for longs feel like a 15 year old library, where it was like this for most patches, as in EWQL SO. That together with the need for volume fades feels uncomfortable enough for me not to use it, if you have any alternative with proper dynamic fades, like even the longs.


I think the programming would be difficult. In the live patch, the dynamic layer for the long is selected by velocity, so if your modwheel did not align more or less with the velocity you'd have an odd jump when you moved the modwheel or if the modwheel picked it up, and just added or subtracted, you'd still have to watch the modwheel to ensure you had space on it to modify the dynamics. For real time sketching, I actually prefer the behavior it has to that other behavior, though I do map expression to the modwheel since I don't use my faders in real time the way Christian and Paul do (I focus on modwheel for playing and then use either an expression pedal or a second pass for expression, and indeed I often just draw in expression since I generally have a good sense of what that should look like). 

In any case, I don't really see live mode making it into a final version of a piece, and I don't play in live contexts so I don't have any sense as to how it would work for that (though from the name I gather that's what it was designed to do). But for quickly sketching something for strings, brass, or woodwinds, I find these patches great since I have shorts and longs readily available and accessible through velocity and then I can do a preliminary shaping of the longs with expression. Then I'll move it to proper parts. I've already been doing something like this for strings with the ensemble patch of SCS, and I've futzed with a combination of Masse and Albion One for brass and woodwinds. I don't know that I'll change from SCS for sketching strings, but I definitely see using the brass and woodwinds for sketching those ensembles, because Originals offer a better one patch solution.


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## jtnyc (Dec 19, 2019)

Maybe it's unfair of me to refer to them as tasters. Yes, each one offers just a few key articulations from the original. I assume Spitfire deemed them the strongest of the bunch and wanted to create a really affordable option for people. It's great for entry level composers on a low budget or anyone who just wants a bit of that legacy sound. I wonder if they are planning on releasing Brunel, Dawin and Stevenson's legacy installments now... 

I'm glad I have Legacy, but if I didn't, considering I own Albion One, Tundra, Cinematic Strings 2 and a bunch of 8Dio strings, I wouldn't be very bothered to get this...


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## jbuhler (Dec 19, 2019)

jtnyc said:


> Maybe it's unfair of me to refer to them as tasters. Yes, each one offers just a few key articulations from the original. I assume Spitfire deemed them the strongest of the bunch and wanted to create a really affordable option for people. It's great for entry level composers on a low budget or anyone who just wants a bit of that legacy sound. I wonder if they are planning on releasing Brunel, Dawin and Stevenson's legacy installments now...
> 
> I'm glad I have Legacy, but if I didn't, considering I own Albion One, Tundra, Cinematic Strings 2 and a bunch of 8Dio strings, I wouldn't be very bothered to get this...


I agree. If as an owner of Albion 1, I hadn't had these given to me, I doubt I would have looked at them. As it is, I hadn't opened Epic Strings until yesterday. I actually only downloaded and opened all of the Originals to see how they functioned in the SF Player and then messed around with the live play patch for a bit and realized that they might serve this specific need that I've been looking for. And, well, who can argue with free for testing? If they end up working as the section sketching library, then they would have been worth $29 to me easy, even £29. But it will take me a few projects of using them to know if their functionality is too limited.


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## Scamper (Dec 19, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> I think the programming would be difficult. In the live patch, the dynamic layer for the long is selected by velocity, so if your modwheel did not align more or less with the velocity you'd have an odd jump when you moved the modwheel or if the modwheel picked it up, and just added or subtracted, you'd still have to watch the modwheel to ensure you had space on it to modify the dynamics.



I'd say, it would be even better and easier to do, if you take out the velocity for dynamics control. Then you could just have CC1 for all long dynamics and maybe velocity for initial attack or shorts, as Spitfire has already done nicely with their performance legatos in other orchestral libraries. Then it could be a good tool for sketching, but you can still keep it, because it doesn't do anything worse than the other patches.

I don't see any disadvantage there, no matter the workflow. But yeah, people sure have different methods and ways to use the libraries, so this is probably just for some a personal issue.


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## MauroPantin (Dec 19, 2019)

Played them a bit more today. I like it, the live patches for both Strings and this release are going into the sketching part of my template in lieu of what I have right now. They might even pass muster on a quick and dirty job or a short mobile game... We'll see.


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## jbuhler (Dec 19, 2019)

Scamper said:


> I'd say, it would be even better and easier to do, if you take out the velocity for dynamics control. Then you could just have CC1 for all long dynamics and maybe velocity for initial attack or shorts, as Spitfire has already done nicely with their performance legatos in other orchestral libraries. Then it could be a good tool for sketching, but you can still keep it, because it doesn't do anything worse than the other patches.
> 
> I don't see any disadvantage there, no matter the workflow. But yeah, people sure have different methods and ways to use the libraries, so this is probably just for some a personal issue.


I think the one disadvantage to the performance legato approach—basically a shorts overlay—is that the longs do not align with the shorts in terms of dynamics unless you do that with the modwheel. With the "live" approach, the dynamics of shorts and longs match, so you can have shorter durations, intermediate durations, longer durations that sound more or less seamless. You aren't stuck with a short short and the long with nothing in between. They could have had you control the velocity of the shorts with the modwheel, but then you'd lose the tactile sense of the playing. For this kind of thing I prefer to have the most responsiveness in the velocities so I can have both hands playing without needing to attend constantly to the modwheel.


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## Yury Tikhomirov (Dec 19, 2019)

I was thinking to get it just for ww's, but then installed Epic Orchestra that came with VEP7, loaded ww patch (that also has sustains and shorts), and called it a day. $29/€29/£29 are now saved.


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## filipjonathan (Dec 19, 2019)

Can someone who has gotten the library do either a video or an audio of all the patches so I know whether to get it or not, since I can't find any video about it on yt? 🙏🏻


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## robgb (Dec 19, 2019)

So is this stuff different from the Albion 1 legacy patches that are included in Albion One?


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## jtnyc (Dec 19, 2019)

robgb said:


> So is this stuff different from the Albion 1 legacy patches that are included in Albion One?


Albion One's legacy folder does contain the shorts for the brass and winds, but in high and low patches. In the new Epic version they are combined into a single patch. No high and low patches. One for short and one for long. Plus the addition of the stacked "live" patch which has been discussed. There are no legacy longs for brass and winds in Albion One.

There are string longs from legacy in Albion one, but again in low and high patches. In the new Epic Strings the high and low are combined.


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## MauroPantin (Dec 20, 2019)

trajev said:


> Can someone who has gotten the library do either a video or an audio of all the patches so I know whether to get it or not, since I can't find any video about it on yt? 🙏🏻



Sure, here you go. I added no processing to this, and it is a quick thing I put together in two minutes but it serves the purpose of evaluation. The only thing I touched is the modwheel.



Timestamps:

Brass Live 0:00
Brass Long 0:22
Brass Short 0:37
Woodwinds Live 0:51
Woodwinds Long 1:20
Woodwinds Short 1:55

After using it for a day or so:

1- There are some tuning issues in certain notes in the brass. Not great, not terrible as they say in Pripyat.

2- The woodwinds live patch seems to be doing some sort of "sforzando piano" thing, you'll hear that. I play hard on the keyboard and get the short attack and then the stacked long note is lower in volume. Not sure if that's on purpose, but it's there.

3- This is stylistic, but there are a lot of 8ves going on in the orchestration of the Brass patches which I'm not crazy about.

Still, it's just 29 bucks. I'm happy, it works for the price and they fit perfectly for my sketching template.


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## filipjonathan (Dec 20, 2019)

MauroPantin said:


> Sure, here you go. I added no processing to this, and it is a quick thing I put together in two minutes but it serves the purpose of evaluation. The only thing I touched is the modwheel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you!!!


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## Alfeus Aditya (Dec 20, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> I think the programming would be difficult. In the live patch, the dynamic layer for the long is selected by velocity, so if your modwheel did not align more or less with the velocity you'd have an odd jump when you moved the modwheel or if the modwheel picked it up, and just added or subtracted, you'd still have to watch the modwheel to ensure you had space on it to modify the dynamics. For real time sketching, I actually prefer the behavior it has to that other behavior, though I do map expression to the modwheel since I don't use my faders in real time the way Christian and Paul do (I focus on modwheel for playing and then use either an expression pedal or a second pass for expression, and indeed I often just draw in expression since I generally have a good sense of what that should look like).
> 
> In any case, I don't really see live mode making it into a final version of a piece, and I don't play in live contexts so I don't have any sense as to how it would work for that (though from the name I gather that's what it was designed to do). But for quickly sketching something for strings, brass, or woodwinds, I find these patches great since I have shorts and longs readily available and accessible through velocity and then I can do a preliminary shaping of the longs with expression. Then I'll move it to proper parts. I've already been doing something like this for strings with the ensemble patch of SCS, and I've futzed with a combination of Masse and Albion One for brass and woodwinds. I don't know that I'll change from SCS for sketching strings, but I definitely see using the brass and woodwinds for sketching those ensembles, because Originals offer a better one patch solution.


So the epic/original series live patch dynamic is based on velocity not modwheel? If it's true, this is what I've been looking for to my live gig setup (layer it with piano)

To be honest it's hard to find strings with velocity based dynamic with a small footprint and good sound quality.


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