# Staffpad vs Notion iOS



## Noam Guterman

Does anyone have experience with both of those?
I see a lot of positive reviews for either one, but no a direct comparison.
If they were running on the same OS I would've just bought both of them,
but I don't have an iPad nor a Surface, so I'm looking for opinions to justify buying one of them.


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## Jdiggity1

I own Staffpad on a Surface Pro 3. It's good - definitely shows potential. For some reason I find myself just scribbling notation onto a blank manuscript pdf file, which you don't have to buy an app for. But for this reason, I believe the Surface is way better than the iPad. I have a 3rd generation iPad which I used Notion on for a little while. Was kind of handy for train trips when I was a student, but overall it was very slow compared to the pen and surface combo.
I also tried using a stylus with the ipad but it just wasn't quite there.
Now that I have a surface, I barely use my iPad. I might set it up with a Lemur template to impress a director/client, but most of the time I don't use it.
My surface is always by my side however, and I use it regularly for sketching, orchestration, transcribing, etc. Love it.


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## Noam Guterman

Jdiggity1 said:


> I own Staffpad on a Surface Pro 3. It's good - definitely shows potential. For some reason I find myself just scribbling notation onto a blank manuscript pdf file, which you don't have to buy an app for. But for this reason, I believe the Surface is way better than the iPad. I have a 3rd generation iPad which I used Notion on for a little while. Was kind of handy for train trips when I was a student, but overall it was very slow compared to the pen and surface combo.
> I also tried using a stylus with the ipad but it just wasn't quite there.
> Now that I have a surface, I barely use my iPad. I might set it up with a Lemur template to impress a director/client, but most of the time I don't use it.
> My surface is always by my side however, and I use it regularly for sketching, orchestration, transcribing, etc. Love it.


Thanks for your input. By the way, did you test out the latest improvements with Notion? (most importantly, the handwriting)


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## Jdiggity1

Noam Guterman said:


> Thanks for your input. By the way, did you test out the latest improvements with Notion? (most importantly, the handwriting)


Oh! I didnt even know about that update. Will have to give it a go, but i don't expect it to be anywhere near as good as the surface for pen input.
I also used NotateMe (iOS), which was ok, but you simply can't write as naturally or as finely on an iPad.
Maybe the latest ipad version is different? I dont know.


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## proxima

Jdiggity1 said:


> Oh! I didnt even know about that update. Will have to give it a go, but i don't expect it to be anywhere near as good as the surface for pen input.
> I also used NotateMe (iOS), which was ok, but you simply can't write as naturally or as finely on an iPad.
> Maybe the latest ipad version is different? I dont know.


You really need to use the Apple Pencil (and thus the iPad Pro) to use handwriting, which is much, much more precise than any stylus on iPads before it. Reviewers consider it comparable or slightly better than using the stylus on a Surface, though some would like it to have the buttons that the Surface stylus has.

I haven't spent much time at all in the new Notion, but I have used the stylus extensively for other purposes. It's the first setup I've had that I can finally use to ditch using paper and pen to write out notes. From what I have used of Notion's handwriting, the support is still pretty basic - it's a new input type, so it takes up a portion of the bottom of the screen, which doesn't seem ideal for writing with the iPad pro. I'm hoping they'll refine it further in the coming months.


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## Noam Guterman

proxima said:


> You really need to use the Apple Pencil (and thus the iPad Pro) to use handwriting, which is much, much more precise than any stylus on iPads before it. Reviewers consider it comparable or slightly better than using the stylus on a Surface, though some would like it to have the buttons that the Surface stylus has.
> 
> I haven't spent much time at all in the new Notion, but I have used the stylus extensively for other purposes. It's the first setup I've had that I can finally use to ditch using paper and pen to write out notes. From what I have used of Notion's handwriting, the support is still pretty basic - it's a new input type, so it takes up a portion of the bottom of the screen, which doesn't seem ideal for writing with the iPad pro. I'm hoping they'll refine it further in the coming months.


From this video it seems like a standard stylus on a regular iPad is pretty responsive


But it's too short to really judge


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## Jerome Vonhogen

Jdiggity1 said:


> I believe the Surface is way better than the iPad. I have a 3rd generation iPad which I used Notion on for a little while.


 

You can't compare a Surface Pro 3 and a 3rd generation iPad, that's ridiculous. The Surface Pro is a PC, the iPad 3rd generation is a tablet, and it's older than the Surface Pro 3.

Ironically, I think Notion for the iPad is a better and more complete notation program than StaffPad, and works great with the desktop version of Notion in terms of file exchange.

Like you, I have an iPad 3rd gen and a Surface Pro (with a fast i5 inside + 512 Gb SSD). Even in Windows 10 tablet mode, the Surface Pro feels like a heavy and sometimes noisy desktop PC, and it keeps updating Windows every other day, which really drives me crazy because there is no easy and quick way to stop the countdown to a forced restart.

A couple of months ago I was synchronizing one of my iLoks when the Surface Pro started counting down to a restart for some stupid update nobody cares about. Just seconds before the restart, my iLok finished syncing! Can you imagine what feels like to have this kind of stress for no reason?

I still use my iPad all the time, since it never has to boot and the battery lasts like forever (although charging is much slower than with the Surface Pro).

The pen of the Surface Pro 3 still lags, although the precision of the pen is an improvement over the active Wacom pen used in the Surface Pro 2, which is the same pen both the Samsung Note tablet and Samsung Note phone use, but behaves much worse on the Surface Pro 2, because of driver issues and very limited calibration options.

I have tested the Apple Pen a couple of weeks ago, and I was blown away by it and was deeply impressed by the technology. This is even a million times better than a Wacom Cyntiq! The feel, the look, the sensitiveness, and precision is just unbelievable, as is the amazing tilt-option. There's no way Microsoft can make a pen like this in the next couple of years.

What makes the iPad Pro + Apple Pen a true winner, is the option to use it as a wireless tablet over WiFi with any OS computer via 3rd party software. It works flawlessly, as I was able to see with my own eyes when I was trying out the incredibly fast iPad Pro. If I had the money for it, I would buy the iPad Pro + Apple Pen today.

I didn't have a chance to test Notion with the iPad Pro yet, but I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be a winning combination.

By the way, I'm impressed by StaffPad too, but I think it's a bit expensive compared to the price of Notion for the iPad (at least compared to the price I had to pay when I bought it).

- Jerome Vonhögen


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## Noam Guterman

Notion iOS handwriting on iPad Pro + Pencil


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## Jerome Vonhogen

Noam Guterman said:


> Notion iOS handwriting on iPad Pro + Pencil





Awesome! This looks even better than StaffPad.

You'd still have to use the Notion samples though.

- Jerome Vonhögen


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## Noam Guterman

Jerome Vonhogen said:


> Awesome! This looks even better than StaffPad.
> 
> You'd still have to use the Notion samples though.
> 
> - Jerome Vonhögen


What's wrong with Notion's iOS samples?
Are they vastly different than the regular Notion samples?


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## Jerome Vonhogen

Noam Guterman said:


> What's wrong with Notion's iOS samples?
> Are they vastly different than the regular Notion samples?


 

Just very limited, and extensions/upgrades are expensive, or at least there were expensive when I purchased Notion for my iPad, a couple of years ago.

-Jerome Vonhögen


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## dcoscina

Jerome Vonhogen said:


> Awesome! This looks even better than StaffPad.
> 
> You'd still have to use the Notion samples though.
> 
> - Jerome Vonhögen


I've worked with staffpad and believe me their samples ain't so hot. Notion has a plethora of sampled arts that cover a multitude of things. Yes the iOS version doesn't have the depth of the desktop samples but considering it's meant for a tablet with less space, it still does very well. Admittedly I'm a notion enthusiast and have been since its inception in 2005


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## Pysmythe

I'm having somewhat this same dilemma lately between these two, but I'm leaning more towards a higher end Surface Pro and Staffpad, because I'd also be able to load up Notion 5 and at least some of my libraries on it. Kind of the best of both worlds, I guess, plus I'm getting paranoid that my tower is going to crap out on me sometime over the next year and that I might need something to hold me over until I could replace it.


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## Noam Guterman

Anyone has any experience with those Chinese windows tabs?
http://www.gearbest.com/tablet-pcs/pp_232112.html


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## Steve Steele

It's all about workflow and need. I have an iPad Pro, Pencil and Notion with Handwriting. I really enjoy this setup. When I'm finished with the score I upload to iCloud and move to my MacPros. I open the document in Notion if I've saved in Notion format or Digital Performer if in MusicXML or MIDI format and finish my mockup. 

It's wonderful. My only compliant, and this it not trivial, is that Notion needs to make Handwriting full screen. Until they do this, StaffPad is the better stylus notation app hands down. 

Prosonus needs to get this one right. 

Btw, I understand that Windows running on an i5 is more featured than an iPad. But the iPad Pro with Apple Pencil should have plenty enough power. So far Notion with Handwriting is very fast on the iPad Pro and playback is smooth.


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## Elephant

Jerome Vonhogen said:


> A couple of months ago I was synchronizing one of my iLoks when the Surface Pro started counting down to a restart for some stupid update nobody cares about. Just seconds before the restart, my iLok finished syncing! Can you imagine what feels like to have this kind of stress for no reason?
> 
> - Jerome Vonhögen



IIRC, the SP3 has Windows 10 Pro, which has a setting to defer Windows updates. That autoupdate thing drives many people nuts, and is all over the PC press. The W10 Pro fix is well documented now.

Seems those SP's and the IPPro's are priced for new adopters, and sooner or later the prices of such devices in the Windows camp will come down. Hopefully then we will have full screen pen input, and everyone will be happy. It would be nice to see Notion port their tablet /handwriting edition to Android and add handwriting capability to their Windows version.


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## JonFairhurst

I downloaded Notion on the iPad Pro. My first project was a percussion score. And guess what? Handwriting isn't supported for singe-line staves just yet. I sent in a support request, they acknowledged that it's a design shortcoming, rather than a bug. They implied that it's on their planned feature list, but I have no idea if and when it might be coming.

I tried a bit of handwriting on a five-line staff and it was a bit hit and miss. Yes, it was better than NotateMe, but not as fluid as I'd really like. But this is after just a few minutes. Maybe I'd learn it better and maybe it would learn me over time. This is a bit frustrating as the iPad Pro and Pencil write so darn fluidly, but the notation programs don't fully harness it just yet.


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## proxima

JonFairhurst said:


> I tried a bit of handwriting on a five-line staff and it was a bit hit and miss. Yes, it was better than NotateMe, but not as fluid as I'd really like. But this is after just a few minutes. Maybe I'd learn it better and maybe it would learn me over time. This is a bit frustrating as the iPad Pro and Pencil write so darn fluidly, but the notation programs don't fully harness it just yet.


Yes, Notion's handwriting support feels very tacked on right now, and it seems pretty unnatural to write only at the bottom of the large screen. They do have a model of incremental updates, though, so I'm hopeful we'll see it reach its potential in the coming months. It's hard to recommend the ipad pro if this is the main thing you're looking for, but if you have other uses for the pencil and large screen, it's a pretty nice setup.


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## JonFairhurst

Agreed. I love the large screen and Pencil. Notation handwriting software needs to catch up with the hardware.

For other apps...
* Video playback is great. The speakers are loud and sound surprisingly good, considering their tiny size.
* My aging eyes like the large screen for eBooks.
* Evernote is nice for scribbling notes and having them sync to your other devices.
* Sketchbook is nice for drawing and supports layers, though I would like to be able to size and position underlying photos for making composites by tracing.
* Paper, from 53, has really nice pens, but no layers. It's nice for simple, flat drawings.
* Procreate is more complex and offers layers, which can be resized and rotated, and also offers masking and various image processing effects. This can be a serious sketch/paint tool.
* Pixelmator allows complex masking (add and subtract shapes to the mask) and effects, but the brushes are a bit limited. I see this as more of a photo effects tool than a painting app.
* Celtx is a nice, inexpensive screenplay program. It includes formats for stage plays, comic books, etc. 

My biggest frustration is the lack of a file system. I like organizing things myself. Having each app function as a silo makes professional work on the tablet a bit of a maze. I started to use iCloud, but trying to share photos from PC to phone and tablet worked inconsistently. I'd add things to the PC folder, but they didn't show up on the other devices. Next, I went to Dropbox, but it was a bit of a mystery as to when some files would exist on the iPad and which were stuck in the cloud. This is a big deal when you get on a plane planning to do some work on existing files. Note that some apps recognize Dropbox and others charge money to use their own cloud systems. I can envision coming back to a project or app after a couple of months and needing to relearn how to export, import, and transfer my work. I have to admit that I'm a bit afraid of doing a big project, say with a hundred comic panels based on multiple versions and drafts, and leaving a big, disorganized mess in my wake. For instance, not all apps allow you to re-order the works in the gallery. I might work on comic panels in a random order, but I don't want to view and review them that way!

Hopefully, I'll get my preferred apps and workflow figured out, but it could take some trial and error. That would be one advantage of the Surface - it's a PC under the hood. But the iPad Pro and Pencil hardware are so sweet. And by skipping an open file system, the device is much less open to viruses and hackers. I've had to re-boot a few times to get an app unstuck, but the restart time is really quick. This isn't like a BSOD, which hangs the whole system and has to go all the way down to a BIOS to restart.

But the bottom line is that I'm using the iPad Pro all the time. It's a fantastic consumer device. It's workable as a pro devices, though file management is strained. And it's *going to be* a great composer tool, hopefully soon.


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## proxima

JonFairhurst said:


> I've had to re-boot a few times to get an app unstuck, but the restart time is really quick.


A bit off topic, but quickly: You shouldn't need to restart the whole ipad to fix an app. Hit the home button twice to get the app switcher, and swipe up on the app that's stuck. 

There have been a couple of times when an app's settings got really messed up and I had to uninstall and reinstall it. But I've had an ipad since the first gen.

Also, take a look at Notability for notes and writing. It has a great feature where it will sync PDF versions of your notes automatically to Dropbox, in exactly the same folder structure you put into the app. It's the best app I've tried for replacing my ubiquitous notepads and pens I used to use.


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## Noam Guterman

Update: I ended up getting a Surface Pro 4! This is the best option for since I already have Cubase, Notion 5, Sibelius First and Digital Performer 8, all of which are compatible with this device. I will also get Staffpad soon, should be well covered.


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## SeattleComposer

FYI I spoke with Sibelius and Finale reps at NAMM. Neither of them are investing deeply in Staffpad/stylus technology. They see that as years away, if ever. Finale says it moved to Colorado and lost staff, and it is in a R & D team- rebuilding phase. Sibelius has some limited stylus compatibility but isn't focused on developing it further at this time, This is from reps, so take it for whatever its worth. I was hoping one of those biggies could promise me a stylus and tablet version that does more than Staffpad. No dice. 
I will take another look at Staffpad when they have version 2.5 and have ironed out the bugs and when there is a mac device that supports a mac version. I still dream of the DAW-compatible, stylus-based, MAC application that allows me to take my work out of Logic, carry it on a plane or a ferry, edit a score by hand with a stylus, and then put it back into logic. That does not exist yet. Neither do real hover boards. Or Dick Tracy watches. But they will, someday!


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