# Will this Computer do for HS?



## SvK (Sep 1, 2010)

hey fred same system is already 900$ more from that site.

SvK


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 1, 2010)

TrueSpec has systems with a lot of good composers including 5 at the Sony Studios.

I strongly advise you NOT to go Dell because Dell parts are bought for consumer/office which does not have the system demands of digital audio.

Yes, you will pay more, but you'll get more.

If you can wait until next week, DAW School webisode 2 for the second season covers the relationship between CPU, RAM, and motherboard. See my post here for webisode 1 which runs less than 7 minutes. 

If you're looking to build a system for Hollywood Strings, just wait the week.

But if you're in a real hurry, I can post it for you over the weekend.

Peter


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## Mike Connelly (Sep 1, 2010)

Personally I'd go with an i7 on the 1366 socket for better upgrade options, and 6 ram slots in triple channel. And SATA 6G on the motherboard.

The dell stuff is hard to judge since they don't go into much detail on the technical specs.


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## SvK (Sep 1, 2010)

Pete,
I appreciate your help here....

I dont know about the importance of going with a custom / studio PC though. I smell a bit of BS in that market...
I mean if its got the chip and the RAM.....its got the chip and the RAM...so a customized system may perform a bit better, but the differences I would gain from paying another 900$ on top of the DELL figure would be what? 5% better performance? 2%?

I own a T3400 Dell with 8gig Of RAM and a Intel Core 2 Quad processor.
It runs ALL of my Vienna WW and Brass just fine.


no problems.

SvK


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## gsilbers (Sep 1, 2010)

Check www.magicmicro.com i7 builds . The components are good and vary in budget.

Also Dell and hp have a lot of bloatware and won't give the original windows 7 DVD, they'll give u a recovery DVD instead.

But b/w Dell and hp I prefer hp. The ht 380 (i7) with 24gb of ram is about $2k


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## JohnG (Sep 1, 2010)

As far as power and speed, that computer sounds comparable to the one Thomas J described in his post of a few days ago, though I don't recall that he gave precise details about clock speed, RAM speed and all that.

I think it's hit or miss with cheaper PCs, though personally I've had one problem after another while "saving money" on them.

I had very bad luck with four or five off-brand PCs over the years, each of which has needed a new motherboard, which always seems to mean replacing the memory as well. Plus, they typically have a power supply that's just not up to the multi-drive, always-on-tap demands that sample streaming requires.

Coincidentally, however, I've had a Dell that for six years has run Giga with no problems. So that's my counter-example. (Which may be partly a testament to how good Giga software really is, I think -- that it can run on such an old machine and be so useful for so long.)

My new approach lately has been to get a shop with a lot of knowledge to build PCs with top components for me, which is something of a middle ground. Still lose out on the "fit for purpose" front, in that there is no guarantee (as there would be from VisionDAW for example) that the thing is going to work well for audio.

I would be very happy to get together with the bretheren from v.i. -- I've been planning a rendezvous with a couple of people for about two years now but nobody's schedule ever opens up at the same time!


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## SvK (Sep 1, 2010)

GSilbers..

Thanx.

2k is too much. 1299$ thats it..Thats all I'm willing to shell out. Not a penny more.

So are you saying for that money I can't get an effective, smooth HS machine?

The spec at the top exceeds the TJs requirement for an "Optimal" computer no?

thanx for link...looking now.

SvK


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## SvK (Sep 1, 2010)

Hey JohòE   ä8E   ä8ŽE   ä8E   ä8E   ä8‘E   ä8’E   ä8“E


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## Mike Connelly (Sep 1, 2010)

Some improvements there like triple channel ram, but I'd still try and find a machine with six ram slots and sata 3 on the motherboard if you can - that configuration includes a drive that exceeds sata 2 speeds but no sata3 on the mobo.

On the original dell, how did it end up with 12 gigs of ram on 4 chips?


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## SvK (Sep 1, 2010)

Mike.....dunno

SvK


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## Frederick Russ (Sep 1, 2010)

SvK @ Wed Sep 01 said:


> Courtesy of GSilbers or this:
> 
> Magic Intel i7 X58 Starter
> 
> ...



How much and from where?


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## SvK (Sep 1, 2010)

Fred,

magic micro
http://www.magicmicro.com/smoreinfo.asp?iid=2330

1500$ (forgot to upgrade to 12 gig RAM though...couple bucks more)

SvK


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## SvK (Sep 1, 2010)

dang dem EW boyz is fasssstttt...

Delivery is tomorrow!!

YOWZA

SvK


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## José Herring (Sep 1, 2010)

The mobo and the Power supply aren't that good in the magic machine. Other than that the other parts are good.

At your price range you could just buy good parts and put them together. You'd do much better than Dell.


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## Frederick Russ (Sep 1, 2010)

Jose, could you fill in the exact mobo & power supply you would recommend? Exact specs are useful to me anyway.


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## José Herring (Sep 1, 2010)

Frederick Russ @ Wed Sep 01 said:


> Jose, could you fill in the exact mobo & power supply you would recommend? Exact specs are useful to me anyway.



For PC's I only trust ASUS and Intel boards. I tend to like the ASUS boards a little better because of the price to feature set. Right now, I'm liking this board a lot:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... =A455-2869

When I built my machine I used this one. Also good and cheaper but no usb3 or sata 3 ports so it's getting a little dated but last year it was da bomb: 

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... CatId=4068

I personally have had no problems with the ASUS mobos though a lot of purist would only go with Intel.

For PSU I'm still doing research for the best one as far as price and performance. Right now I just went with one that I knew would work which was this one: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... No=3276573

It's quiet and delivers good clean power. But, I know that there are plenty better out there. Though, as far as PSU go it's not bad at all.

Jose


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## chimuelo (Sep 1, 2010)

I agree with Mike Connelly on the i7 Bloomsdale 1366.
I have a Clarksdale i5 @ 3.8 and now an i7 @ 3.8 and the i5 streams well, but the bandwidth of the i7 1366 crushes the i5, and 25-35% more than the Dual Channel i7's.
IMHO These really large virtual instruments and Bandwidth hungry.


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 1, 2010)

JohnG @ Wed Sep 01 said:


> As far as power and speed, that computer sounds comparable to the one Thomas J described in his post of a few days ago, though I don't recall that he gave precise details about clock speed, RAM speed and all that.
> 
> I think it's hit or miss with cheaper PCs, though personally I've had one problem after another while "saving money" on them.
> 
> ...




That 's because Giga was designed on a Dell with the Dell version of Windows.

I don't sell systemsvanymore so just sharing my experience.


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## careyford (Sep 1, 2010)

Dell was a different company six years ago...


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## JohnG (Sep 1, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ 1st September 2010 said:


> That 's because Giga was designed on a Dell with the Dell version of Windows.



It's nice to have a piece of good luck like that.


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## gsilbers (Sep 1, 2010)

SvK @ Wed Sep 01 said:


> Courtesy of GSilbers or this:
> 
> Magic Intel i7 X58 Starter
> 
> ...



cool. 
maybe a more powerfull PSU as someone else suggested. 
i may not be sure of this but the more power the more HD connections it will have, thus, if u wanna add more hard drives later on. 
maybe less costly video card although dont know how the video card affects the PC as a sampler in general. dont think that much though. 

ill post the specs for the one im about to buy and its individual components prices in newegg to see the difference.


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## Frederick Russ (Sep 1, 2010)

josejherring @ Wed Sep 01 said:


> Frederick Russ @ Wed Sep 01 said:
> 
> 
> > Jose, could you fill in the exact mobo & power supply you would recommend? Exact specs are useful to me anyway.
> ...



Thanks for this Jose.


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## SvK (Sep 1, 2010)

Thanx all of you for chiming in.
MagicMicro looks good!

(the crucial drive is cheaper at nuegg though)

SvK


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## gsilbers (Sep 1, 2010)

CURRENT CONFIGURATION:
Intel Core i7 930 2.8GHz (Quad Core) 8000K
Coolermaster Hyper 212, 4 Copper Heat Pipes, Extra Quiet CPU fan
Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R X58, DDR3, SATA3, SLI & X Fire, GB LAN, USB 3.0,iEEE
24GB (6x4GB) PC3 10600 DDR3 1333 Triple Channel (super talent)
ATI Radeon HD 4350 512MB PCI Express 16x dual head
1000.0GB Western Digital Green SATA2 UDMA 300 32m cache
600.0GB Western Digital VelociRaptor 10,000RPM SATA 3 6.0Gb/s 32m cache
LG 22x DVD Recorder Dual Layer +R/RW -R/RW
Realtek HD digital audio (onboard)
Ethernet network adapter (onboard)
Antec Sonata III Black Ultra Quiet Case front USB & eSATA
Case Fan 120 mm Extra Quiet DC fan
Antec EarthWatts 650w Extra Quiet ATX Power Supply SLI & X-fire ready
Black Windows Keyboard, 104 key, PS/2
2-Button Wheel Mouse, PS/2 Black
Standard assembly and test 3-5 business days
free customer service for 3 years

Total $1970.00

same components bought through newegg.com 
(except the ram)

$2105 (minus CA tax and shipping: $1987) 


disclaimer: im guessing if i really shopped around i could find better prices on the individual components but that takes a little time and i think magicmicro probably bulk orders those "selected" components for a lower price. 
(and i think the mouse and keyboard must be way cheaper)
but they do give an option of buying individual components (of any kind and maker) and u add a "build" service so they can assemble it for you. 

so its good for folks like me who dont like shopping around and doing homework and dont have time to do it plus install and assemble mid level slave pcs. (iits been a month and i still have a PTHD to install i have no time at all!! )

but i still have the same questions like svk; would this be good enough for HS and more libraries? SSD drives are too pricey for me imo, (also available in magicmicro) so im going for a 10krpm HD . 
does the mobo have TRUE 6gb/s sata (as suppose to .... what?!! ) 
is it quiet enough? ( its not the high end PSU like noctuaa but the less noisy of the "widley use/commercial/big brand name/ etc" PSUs.

could we be better off with an i5 slave instead? (w/up to 16gb of ram?) 
how about those crossfire/sli features which go w the importance of the video card quesiton.

what worries me is that when i check visiondaw's builds they are like 2 times as much. 
for a similar spec'ed out i7 system. its like $4k!!! which worries me as too whats soo different in the outcome performance i want/need for HS that the price jumps soo high? 
do i need THAT much better components? 
i was checking out chimuelo's new build and the price and its nothing compared to visiondaw's system, still he seems very happy with it.
which goes along with what svk alluded to in the marketing hype of some of these companies. (if i understood u correctly svk


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## chimuelo (Sep 1, 2010)

Well I used Pro DAW builders for 10 years before I finally grew a brain & balls.
But even so, I still ordered and configured the DAW, but paid 180 USD to have a local shop build and install the OS.
That way, I can just tweak the software after a stable build.
Plus I get tired of yelling at myself and wanted someone else to yell at if anything went wrong.

Also, Macs use FB DIMM RAM and the Foxconn motherboards are damn near Intel quality, sot hat's why you can get great RAM buffering.
If you want to be able to use 24GB's of RAM using a PC you NEED a server quality mobo from Intel or Supermicro.

The i7's I have seen that I based my builds from were Gigabyte UD series and Asus/MSI's.
Those boards using fast ass RAM can use 12GB's no sweat, but using 4GB DIMM's is risky, and 24GB's hasn't worked on any PC Slave I have seen yet.
And Ihave 2 freinds who bought the large DIMM's and cried like babies afterwards.
Just my experience though.

If you want high RAM storage using 4GB DIMM's.
Here's one worth considering............................
http://www.supermicro.com/products/moth ... /X8STE.cfm

My friends call these Mac killers, and at the end of the day they are exactly the same as far as perfomance goes, but the costs still 25% cheaper.
Note that the RAM is 1066/1333 at best.
So using an SSD or a 7200 SATA3 w/ 32MB cache would make up on the RAM speed.

Different strokes.
I really wish I could see a HS somewhere in town to check its needs first hand, but these cats are hardware first folks, who are usually a year or two behind with apps.
They also prefer maturity since down time is totally unnacceptable.
I had to go 64bit just so I could quickly audition sounds for sessions.
Live I could have stayed at 32bit W7 using NCW instruments, but in the session worls, I learned my lesson from a while back when everyone started texting while I watched my DAW reload......................most embarrassing.
I am now prepared though and have proven my worthiness to remain among them...

Reminds me of Han from Enter The Dragon..... /\~O 

Try The Veal


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 1, 2010)

According to one source, the i950s are supposed to drop by 45% in the new Intel price list for September. i950 is 3.06Ghz and is expected to be priced comparable to the i930 at around US$300.


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## JohnG (Sep 1, 2010)

chimuelo @ 1st September 2010 said:


> Plus I get tired of yelling at myself and wanted someone else to yell at if anything went wrong.



I thought that's what marriage was for.


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## Stephen Rees (Sep 2, 2010)

Not sure anyone's mentioned above, but there are several incarnations of Windows 7, and the 'Home Premium 64bit' version has a 16Gig RAM supported limit according to here.......

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 85%29.aspx

You may want to consider at least 'Professional 64bit' which has a limit of 192GB Ram (as does 'Enterprise' and 'Ultimate') which would hopefully be more than enough!

Stephen


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## SvK (Sep 2, 2010)

The purpose of this thread was :

What system will DO to run HS and only HS effortlessly.

Not what is best, not wha is expandable in the future. None of that.

What will do to run a slave running only HS and being able to run all the big patches.

Thanx,

SvK


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## Ashermusic (Sep 2, 2010)

SvK @ Thu Sep 02 said:


> The purpose of this thread was :
> 
> What system will DO to run HS and only HS effortlessly.
> 
> ...



Yes, and if and when I add a PC that is what I will want to know also.


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## gsilbers (Sep 2, 2010)

SvK @ Thu Sep 02 said:


> The purpose of this thread was :
> 
> What system will DO to run HS and only HS effortlessly.
> 
> ...



well, there was a post in the SSD discussion about nick phoenix using 2 macpros with 12gb each for him to run HS. >8o 
not conforming at all.


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## JohnG (Sep 2, 2010)

Yes, but Thomas J, who made the demos, was using a single SSD on a single PC with 12 GB of RAM, which obviously is quite a bit less in the way of resources than what Nick was using.


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## gsilbers (Sep 2, 2010)

chimuelo @ Wed Sep 01 said:


> Well I used Pro DAW builders for 10 years before I finally grew a brain & balls.
> But even so, I still ordered and configured the DAW, but paid 180 USD to have a local shop build and install the OS.
> That way, I can just tweak the software after a stable build.
> Plus I get tired of yelling at myself and wanted someone else to yell at if anything went wrong.
> ...



the FB ram got me a little worried as dont know much about this new tech (FB and ECC) 
but i saw this :

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/kingst ... ,7194.html

and a little more reasured about 24gb of ram on i7 mobo. 

im not sure about what errors exactly does a Fully buffered dimm or ECC prevents. 
or in what context would it apply in having a HS running machine. (or other reasons besides error correcting)

im choosing 24gb of ram just because i want a "set it and leave it" approach. 
i could load all of the LASS i needed plus lots more in my Q6600 quad core intel core2duo with 8gb of ram. i was very happy with it.
but every-time i loaded more than a few LASS patches on my mac pro 8 core i get ticks and pops. . and i load tons of other stuff instead and it works great. 
so.. go figured


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## SvK (Sep 2, 2010)

John G:

Yeah ... I an trying to duplicate the TJ system on the cheap....

In other words the minimum PSU needed
The cheapest memory that will work...
The least expensive memory board that will work...

SvK


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## gsilbers (Sep 2, 2010)

well, PSU, one thing that got me when i bough my previous pc was that the lower the wattage, the less connection it will have. so when i wanted to add another internal drive i couldnt, so keep a loockout for that. 

memory, i guess the most that u can to load as much as u can. 

and mobo i think most i7 will do fine as most seem to be good. i just look at the connections i need like firewire and such. 
and then something i recently saw was about the sata3 with 3gb/s vs 6gb/s vs/ TRUE 6gb/s
so i have no idea what those "not" TRUE 6gb/s entails. and how much does that affect (if anything) the performance of HS. 
to at least be able to handle enough streams.


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## SvK (Sep 3, 2010)

Ok this is from EastWest Site

for HS specs:

PC OPTIMAL SYSTEM
Intel Core i7 2.66GHz or higher
16GB RAM or more
64-bit Windows/Host Sequencer
SSD (Solid State Drive) for sample streaming

My ò¾   ä¢¨¾   ä¢©¾   ä¢ª¾   ä¢«¾   ä¢¬¾   ä¢­¾   ä¢®¾   ä¢¯¾   ä¢°¾   ä¢±¾   ä¢²¾   ä¢³¾   ä¢´¾   ä¢µ¾   ä¢¶¾   ä¢·¾   ä¢¸¾   ä¢¹¾   ä¢º¾   ä¢»¾   ä¢¼¾   ä¢½¾   ä¢¾¾   ä¢¿¾   ä¢À¾   ä¢Á¾   ä¢Â¾   ä¢Ã¾   ä¢Ä¾   ä¢Å


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 3, 2010)

chimuelo @ Wed Sep 01 said:


> I agree with Mike Connelly on the i7 Bloomsdale 1366.
> I have a Clarksdale i5 @ 3.8 and now an i7 @ 3.8 and the i5 streams well, but the bandwidth of the i7 1366 crushes the i5, and 25-35% more than the Dual Channel i7's.
> IMHO These really large virtual instruments and Bandwidth hungry.



I went to http://ark.intel.com and couldn't find an i7 listed that was 3.8GHz. The closest I found was the extreme edition at 3.33GHz.


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 3, 2010)

SvK @ Fri Sep 03 said:


> Ok this is from EastWest Site
> 
> for HS specs:
> 
> ...



Allowing that your case allows for expansion, look at a 750 watt PS. You're talking about $99 for a good one. This way you can expand the number of hard drives if you want. 

Check for the motherboard to be have enough slots to get you to 24GB. The i7 CPUs are rated by Intel for 24GB of RAM. Anything over 24GB requires a Dual Xeon excluding the i7800 series which, depending on the RAM and the motherboard, can go up to 32GB of RAM.


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## SvK (Sep 4, 2010)

Peter,

Thanx. The optimal spec for running HS is 16 NOT 24. I have no intention of expanding this PC. It is for the sole purpose of running HS...sonshy would I need 12 gig more than the optimal spec?

Best,

SvK


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## gsilbers (Sep 4, 2010)

hey svk let us knoww how it tuns out.


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## Mike Connelly (Sep 4, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Fri Sep 03 said:


> I went to http://ark.intel.com and couldn't find an i7 listed that was 3.8GHz. The closest I found was the extreme edition at 3.33GHz.



Overclock? These chips can go way up easily and safely.



SvK @ Sat Sep 04 said:


> Thanx. The optimal spec for running HS is 16 NOT 24. I have no intention of expanding this PC. It is for the sole purpose of running HS...sonshy would I need 12 gig more than the optimal spec?



Are you going to have other libraries running on the same machine or just a dedicated HS only box? Personally I wouldn't limit myself to the current "optimal" recommendation when getting more ram slots doesn't cost that much more.


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## Dan Mott (Sep 5, 2010)

Did you ever consider building a sever? Or is that totally overkill?


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