# RELEASED: Straight Ahead Jazz Horns, revamped for 2017 by Impact Soundworks! Demos & video inside!



## Andrew Aversa (Feb 8, 2017)

*Straight Ahead Jazz Horns - Available Now!*







Impact Soundworks is proud to announce *Straight Ahead Jazz Horns*, created in collaboration with Straight Ahead Samples! This revamped library features over 75,000 samples of *13 solo brass and sax instruments* perfect for jazz, funk, pop, R&B and more. Each instrument is deeply sampled with a variety of crucial techniques and ornaments, all totally customizable with our *TACT* system of articulation control and mapping.

We're also introducing *Smart Voicing* technology, the easiest and most fluid way to create fully-voiced ensemble parts to harmonize your melodies. Available in our Multi Ensembles, all you have to do is play a chord in your left hand and play a melody in your right to get *authentic, hand-written harmonies* voiced for your ensemble - while keeping all articulation mapping, legato, and other settings.

*Smart Voicing* is not only deeply customizable with different voicing and chord options, but can even be used with Kontakt's "Send MIDI to Outside World" feature, allowing you to send *generated harmony MIDI data *to *any other plugin*!






*Full Instrument List*:

Lead Trumpet
Trumpet 2
Trumpet 3
Trumpet 4
Lead Trombone
Trombone 2
Trombone 3
Bass Trombone
Lead Alto Sax
Alto Sax 2
Lead Tenor Sax
Tenor Sax 2
Baritone Sax
*Multi Ensembles*:

4 Trumpets
4 Trombones
5 Saxes
All Brass
Full Ensemble
Pop Horns
*Key Library Features*

Over 75,000 samples, available as 16 and 24-bit
Two distinct mic positions
True legato and glissando for all instruments
Up to 4x dynamic levels / 5x RR per note
Total Articulation Control Technology (TACT)
Extensive options and tweak settings for all instruments, ranging from legato/gliss timing to three (!!) separate dynamic x-fade types
Ready-to-go FX rack (analog EQ, compressor, delay and convolution reverb)
*Smart Voicing* multi ensembles
*Articulations (varies by instrument)*

Sustain, staccato, quarters, staccatissimo, fortepiano
Falls, long falls, doits, scoops, flops
Bends, shakes, turns, legato, gliss
*Availability*

The library is available now for *Kontakt Player* at MSRP *$249* with a deep discount ($199 off!) for owners of the original Jazz Horns library by Straight Ahead Samples.

*Click here to read more and purchase*!

*AUDIO DEMOS
*


*LIBRARY WALKTHROUGH
*

*
SMART VOICING TEASER
*


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## Mundano (Feb 8, 2017)

wow!


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## Kuusniemi (Feb 8, 2017)

Well this got interesting...


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## playz123 (Feb 8, 2017)

Looking forward to the demos!


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## reddognoyz (Feb 8, 2017)

I saw the demo's first time around, I'd love to see a demo of where it's at now


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## Ashermusic (Feb 8, 2017)

Looking forward to this, Andrew.


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## rgarber (Feb 8, 2017)

I just looked at Straight Ahead's website and there's no mention of this. So did this just obsolete my copy of the Straight Ahead version and my only recourse is to pay the deep discount? Well great for the guy buying for the first time at $250 but even if my deep discount is $99 I'll have paid $400. Might you guys reconsider and make it a deep deep discount? Just askin'. - Rich


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## kurtvanzo (Feb 8, 2017)

rgarber said:


> I just looked at Straight Ahead's website and there's no mention of this. So did this just obsolete my copy of the Straight Ahead version and my only recourse is to pay the deep discount? Well great for the guy buying for the first time at $250 but even if my deep discount is $99 I'll have paid $400. Might you guys reconsider and make it a deep deep discount? Just askin'. - Rich



I would wait and see (It was just announced today). He may need to charge something since it's a player edition now (the licenses from NI cost) but usually when Andrew says deep discount, he means deep, deep... You may only be looking at $30-40 (the approximate cost of player licenses if bought in bulk)- but we'll see.


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## artomatic (Feb 8, 2017)

Bring it on!


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## Vovique (Feb 8, 2017)

Amazing news!


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## neblix (Feb 8, 2017)

rgarber said:


> I just looked at Straight Ahead's website and there's no mention of this. So did this just obsolete my copy of the Straight Ahead version and my only recourse is to pay the deep discount? Well great for the guy buying for the first time at $250 but even if my deep discount is $99 I'll have paid $400. Might you guys reconsider and make it a deep deep discount? Just askin'. - Rich



We'll be releasing pricing information not long from now. And we do agree, with the circumstances surrounding the original library, some people may feel uncomfortable that they would have to pay a substantial amount for the remake. We are making sure to include that in our discussion, so don't worry!

It is also worth noting, however, that this is not the same library with a new skin on it; in addition to edits and improvements to the sample content, the backend programming is done completely from the ground up, with all of our latest engineering methods and quality control we've developed at ISW over the last few years. Despite what I'm listing below, I reiterate we do want to make the discount deep enough to be worthwhile.


The articulation system is powered by TACT (first seen in the Ventus series), with some added features special to this library's usage. This allows a whole world of mapping articulations; the original SA Jazz Horns was limited to keyswitching.
Scripted articulations that include transitions and morphs sound substantially better.
There's a wealth of advanced parameters that you can use to tweak everything from the fade times on your legato, to the RR logic, to the sample offsets, to the ADSR... etc. etc. almost none of which were accessible in the original.
We've improved on some of the novel features from the original library, accessible on the advanced page as well, such as legato based on position in the bar (Accented Legato it was called), automatic leap accenting, and temporarily latching attack articulations.
Finally, the crown jewel, is the Smart Voicing multscript tech. The original SA Jazz Horns used a large combinatoric set of pre-baked chord samples that accounted for every melody harmonization in each of the available ensembles. This approach was ambitious but had some issues; the user was tied to a specific mix, with no variance in performance, no legato/glissando, limited set of articulations, etc. 

The Smart Voicing is a different approach to the same concept. It's a multiscript that generates the voicings (authentic and idiomatic to these ensembles, handwritten by Trey Pollard of SAS) which have been compiled as a gigantic database of information for the algorithm to reference. Based on your melody and chord selected, it creates actual MIDI data that get sent in Kontakt midi channels to the solo instrument nkis. Keyswitches are passed, as well as CC, so when you switch articulations and dynamics, the ensemble responds as a whole unit, as if you were simultaneously instructing the same quality solo instrument nkis how to play separately in your DAW. (With some instant global humanization parameters, of course!)

Not to mention the snazzy dynamic sheet music display. 

This is magnitudes more flexible and more powerful than the original execution in the original SA Jazz Horns. The amount of time and engineering that went into this feature alone suggests that however small or large the deep discount is, it still needs to, in part, respect how much new work went into it, and how much new content and power the user is getting access to.


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## NYC Composer (Feb 8, 2017)

Looking forward to hearing.

Is there any new sample content? Was any new recording done? Thanks.


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 8, 2017)

NYC Composer said:


> Looking forward to hearing.
> 
> Is there any new sample content? Was any new recording done? Thanks.



There are no new recordings, but we re-edited and processed the existing pool to clean them up, and we completely rebuilt how all samples are used in Kontakt (envelopes, modulators, sample offsets, script triggering) which makes an enormous difference.



> I just looked at Straight Ahead's website and there's no mention of this. So did this just obsolete my copy of the Straight Ahead version and my only recourse is to pay the deep discount? Well great for the guy buying for the first time at $250 but even if my deep discount is $99 I'll have paid $400. Might you guys reconsider and make it a deep deep discount? Just askin'. - Rich



The upgrade price will definitely not be $99. Think lower. And it will be well worth it - as Nabeel said this is not just a new UI but a re-processed and cleaned up sample pool, rebuilt Kontakt patches, totally new approach to the multi ensembles, RAM-optimized, 100% flexible articulation mapping, all thoroughly documented


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## NYC Composer (Feb 8, 2017)

Cool, Andrew- thanks. Again, looking forward to listening.


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## rgarber (Feb 8, 2017)

Thanks for the answers on the pricing upgrade, much appreciated. Beyond pricing though there's another issue which the new BBB upgrade brings up and that's the same class of instruments playing in unison and not sounding like just one. Has this issue been addressed with this library too? I was just talking with the Warp IV people today and it looks like they've addressed this issue in their upcoming re-release of their libraries. Whereas before I was keen to purchase everybody who put out a horn library I'm starting to see the wisdom of only working with just one or two at the most. And I do see where you got the instrument list available but are these all different people sampled or you guys got some tricks up your sleeves to make it sound like you sampled different people? - Rich


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## StraightAheadSamples (Feb 9, 2017)

rgarber said:


> Thanks for the answers on the pricing upgrade, much appreciated. Beyond pricing though there's another issue which the new BBB upgrade brings up and that's the same class of instruments playing in unison and not sounding like just one. Has this issue been addressed with this library too? I was just talking with the Warp IV people today and it looks like they've addressed this issue in their upcoming re-release of their libraries. Whereas before I was keen to purchase everybody who put out a horn library I'm starting to see the wisdom of only working with just one or two at the most. And I do see where you got the instrument list available but are these all different people sampled or you guys got some tricks up your sleeves to make it sound like you sampled different people? - Rich



Hi Rich,
Yes, it's 13 different players. That was a huge reason why I wanted to do the library in the first place. The real sound of 4 different trumpet players playing together, each with their own unique sound, but that all come from the same tradition of playing in order to get uniform articulations that blend perfectly together.

So, the unisons is a non-issue for this library.

Also, each player is used to playing their respective chair. The lead trumpet is a true "lead" player. Crazy high chops and a super focused sound. While, for example, the 4th trumpet player has a huge wide sound, super dark and beautiful in the low range. So you don't get a chord with 4 lead trumpets, that would sound too tight and perhaps pinched. You get a balanced, big trumpet choir. Because even if you get the phasey comb-filtering problem (of having the same trumpeter stacked 4 times) solved you've still got a group with 4 lead tpt timbres. That's never going to sound like a fat horn "section." So, we sampled all different humans for every chair.

The same goes for a trombones and saxes as well, of course.


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## rocking.xmas.man (Feb 9, 2017)

will the ISW version and the straight ahead samples version co-exist as competing (oh - of course I mean complementing) products?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Feb 9, 2017)

No. This is replacing the SAS version. For previous SAS SA! Jazz Horns owners, there will be a low upgrade/crossgrade price for the new ISW Kontakt Player version.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Feb 9, 2017)

This is great news. SA Jazz Horns was a bold and ambitious library that was somewhat held back by a bunch of technical issues and lack of maintenance. I ended up never getting it truly integrated into my template, but a remaster under the ISW name sound likes the right way to resurrect it.

Will you be doing the same with the other Straight Ahead libraries? They too have unaddressed bugs and intermittent weirdness that hold them back from being truly awesome.


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## mouse (Feb 9, 2017)

This looks stunning! Hopefully we see more collaborations between SAS and Impact Soundworks!


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## jvsax (Feb 9, 2017)

Most of my music is written for small jazz ensembles with 2-4 horns, and I'm thinking of getting this when it's released to see if it can be an automated "helper" to expand these charts for big band.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Feb 9, 2017)

jvsax said:


> Most of my music is written for small jazz ensembles with 2-4 horns, and I'm thinking of getting this when it's released to see if it can be an automated "helper" to expand these charts for big band.


That would be a great use for the Smart Voicing technology. Use the lead lines from your small group charts, enter the chord changes, and you'll have tons of options for large ensemble settings for your parts.


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## jvsax (Feb 9, 2017)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> That would be a great use for the Smart Voicing technology. Use the lead lines from your small group charts, enter the chord changes, and you'll have tons of options for large ensemble settings for your parts.


Very cool! Sounds like a great product, I'm looking forward to using it.


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## Brendon Williams (Feb 9, 2017)

Wow, a lot less than the original price too! Looking forward to hearing it!


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## alanb (Feb 9, 2017)

It looks very intriguing . . . and I can't wait to hear how it all sounds . . . . . . but please confirm that it will NOT require Kontakt 5.6+ . . .

[the full-color keyzones in the photos bode well, but things may have changed since the images were created]


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## JasonTse (Feb 10, 2017)

I have a project in the works where I was thinking of purchasing the original SA Horns to use on. Excited to see where this revamped version goes.


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 10, 2017)

alanb said:


> It looks very intriguing . . . and I can't wait to hear how it all sounds . . . . . . but please confirm that it will NOT require Kontakt 5.6+ . . .
> 
> [the full-color keyzones in the photos bode well, but things may have changed since the images were created]



Happy to report we are using 5.5.2.880 for this release. We did a customer survey recently and though about 70% of customers have upgraded to 5.6, about 25% more are planning on waiting up to 6 months to upgrade. Therefore our first 5.6 release will not be until late Summer.


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## John57 (Feb 10, 2017)

That is great I was at kontakt 5.6 but ran into issues with my libraries and had to downgrade to 5.5.2


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## neblix (Feb 10, 2017)

alanb said:


> [the full-color keyzones in the photos bode well, but things may have changed since the images were created]



Those photos were actually made the same day as the announcement. xP


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## alanb (Feb 10, 2017)

zircon_st said:


> Happy to report we are using 5.5.2.880 for this release.




Great — I think . . . 




zircon_st said:


> Therefore our first 5.6 release will not be until late Summer.




How will the eventual "5.6 release" effect users who are still using v5.5? Will there be any difference between a v5.5 user's experience and that of a v5.6+ user?

Unless/until NI returns the full-color keyswitches, I'm not going to upgrade past v5.5, and I won't purchase any library that requires v5.6+. I've still got plenty of life to squeeze out of my current library collection, and that's where I will focus my energies for now. 

I rely heavily on the multicolored keyswitches in many of my Kontakt libs, I detest the minuscule 'color dots' used in the new interface, I have no need for a NI keyboard, and I resent the way that NI graphically crippled the UI to favor users who purchase their hardware (and who will, therefore, not have to rely on the software UI to differentiate between keyzones). Feh.........


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 10, 2017)

We believe that by ~6 months from now NI will have solved the issues with 5.6 including - as you mentioned - the key coloring. I personally dislike the new key coloring as well! But I think they've heard us and will be changing it. 

5.6 does have some crucial new features that will be very important to an upcoming engine we're working on, the first release being Juggernaut 2, so... well, maybe I shouldn't say any more for now


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## alanb (Feb 11, 2017)

zircon_st said:


> We believe that by ~6 months from now NI will have solved the issues with 5.6 including - as you mentioned - the key coloring. I personally dislike the new key coloring as well! But I think they've heard us and will be changing it.




Man, I hope so. Just as I'd embraced the notion of saving money by not buying v5.6-only products, and being forced to dig deeper into my current arsenal instead . . . 



zircon_st said:


> 5.6 does have some crucial new features that will be very important to an upcoming engine we're working on, the first release being Juggernaut 2, so... well, maybe I shouldn't say any more for now




Please just say whether a Kontakt v5.5 user will have problems using the inevitable v5.6 version of this library (in the event that NI doesn't fix the key coloring). I just want to make sure that I wouldn't get saddled with a less-useful library if I don't want to update Kontakt..... Thanks!!


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## Quasar (Feb 11, 2017)

alanb said:


> ...Please just say whether a Kontakt v5.5 user will have problems using the inevitable v5.6 version of this library (in the event that NI doesn't fix the key coloring). I just want to make sure that I wouldn't get saddled with a less-useful library if I don't want to update Kontakt..... Thanks!!



I HATE the new key coloring too, and never miss an opportunity to complain about it as loudly as I can, just as I'm doing now...

...But we've already been told that the library will be 5.5x compatible, and I think that's all one can reasonably ask or expect. Are you really asking ISW to guarantee that a new library's subsequent updates/revisions will be bound to a specific Kontakt version into perpetuity? It doesn't work that way.


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## alanb (Feb 11, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> But we've already been told that the library will be 5.5x compatible, and I think that's all one can reasonably ask or expect. Are you really asking ISW to guarantee that a new library's subsequent updates/revisions will be bound to a specific Kontakt version into perpetuity? It doesn't work that way.



? ? ?

I never asked for a "guarantee" of anything, and I can 'reasonably' ask whether I will be unable to use the version of the library slated to come out in about six months, if I don't install K5.6. 

What we were "told" is that the initial release will be "5.5x compatible," but that they expect to release a "5.6 version" in about six months.

As should have been obvious, my desire is not to hobble ISW's development "in perpetuity," but rather to gauge for myself whether I will be able to enjoy reasonable long-term use of the library if I purchase it now, in its "pre-5.6" iteration.

If their anticipated "5.6 version" will still work fine on v5.5.2, then I'm (probably) golden. If their "5.6 version" will only work (or only work properly) on Kv5.6+, then I know not to buy the library.....

Looking forward to your response, zircon_st . . .


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## Quasar (Feb 11, 2017)

alanb said:


> ? ? ?
> 
> I never asked for a "guarantee" of anything, and I can 'reasonably' ask whether I will be unable to use the version of the library slated to come out in about six months, if I don't install K5.6.
> 
> ...



Okay. No offense meant, and sorry if taken. But if they're releasing a 5.5x compatible library soon, and it works as hoped (I have 8 ISW libraries, and have never been disappointed in any of them), then can't you just continue to use that even if/when they do come out with a 5.6x compatible version?


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## John57 (Feb 11, 2017)

Unless I am mistaken I was under the impression that 5.6 version was for a product completely different from the Jazz Horns.


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## alanb (Feb 11, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> can't you just continue to use that even if/when they do come out with a 5.6x compatible version?




I don't know . . . that's why I'm askin' . . . 

If the K5.5-compatible version works fine as is, and doesn't need any post-release fixin'-up, then prob'ly.

On the other hand, if _only_ the follow-up K5.6-compatible version contains replacement samples and scripts and critical code that hampered the K5.5-compatible version, then no.

For one thing, I'd love to know whether the NI SDKs *allow* devs to create libraries that can use all the extra bells-and-whistles that became available in K5.6, but still function as expected in (say) K5.5 [in which case everything should be fine for everybody] . . . or whether K5.6 compatibility _necessitates_ K5.5 non-compatibility. What say ye, @EvilDragon, any idea?


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## Soundhound (Feb 11, 2017)

I'd love to know this as well. I've had SAS horns in the back of my mind since it was first announced and been looking forward/hoping for an eventual fix/release.

So just to be clear, will the 5.5x version about to be released work with 5.6? Or, as a 5.6 user will I need to wait until the next version is released in late summer?


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## neblix (Feb 12, 2017)

What is all of this about a 5.6 version?

There is no 5.6 version. The Straight Ahead Jazz Horns library is 5.5.2.880 compatible, as Andrew posted earlier in the thread. There will be no other version.



alanb said:


> What we were "told" is that the initial release will be "5.5x compatible," but that they expect to release a "5.6 version" in about six months.



Andrew said that by ~6 months, we expect most users to be on Kontakt 5.6.

He then said we are working on technology upcoming that relies on 5.6 features. This is technology for future products, the first release of which will be Juggernaut 2, which is a product unrelated to Straight Ahead Jazz Horns.



alanb said:


> For one thing, I'd love to know whether the NI SDKs *allow* devs to create libraries that can use all the extra bells-and-whistles that became available in K5.6, but still function as expected in (say) K5.5 [in which case everything should be fine for everybody] . . . or whether K5.6 compatibility _necessitates_ K5.5 non-compatibility. What say ye, @EvilDragon, any idea?



An earlier version of a program can not use features from a new version of the program. It's like attempting to load a Pro Tools 12 session in Pro Tools 9.

A Kontakt 5.6 library can not be loaded in Kontakt 5.5, a Kontakt 5.5 library can not be loaded in Kontakt 5.4, etc. But this is not a relevant concern here; it has been stated the library is 5.5.2 compatible, and we're not going to be releasing updates on future versions of Kontakt.

Any patches or updates will be done using the Kontakt 5.5 engine to maintain compatibility, unless we determine sufficient incentive to use features from the new versions of the program and the data tells us our customer base is majority 5.6+. This is not really likely in acoustic instrument sample library such as SAJH, but you may see it in the future for some of our electronic sound design line instruments, since 5.6 features are more suited towards more advanced mathematical scripting and user interface design than anything with improving sample capabilities.



Soundhound said:


> So just to be clear, will the 5.5x version about to be released work with 5.6? Or, as a 5.6 user will I need to wait until the next version is released in late summer?



*Kontakt libraries *are forwards compatible. You can load Kontakt 5.5 libraries in Kontakt 5.6, just like you can load Kontakt 4 libraries in Kontakt 5. Any new version of the program will be able to run libraries created prior to that version.

That being said, there is no next version in the summer. There is the single version we are releasing in the coming days. 



Tugboat said:


> Are you really asking ISW to guarantee that a new library's subsequent updates/revisions will be bound to a specific Kontakt version into perpetuity? It doesn't work that way.



Practically speaking, we don't foresee any reason in the future to break 5.5.x compatibility with the Jazz Horns library. So there's no reason to fear, anyway.


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## John57 (Feb 12, 2017)

Just as I thought the version 5.6.x is for a different product entirely. The increased math functions for real numbers in Kontakt 5.6.x does seems to be geared more toward electronic based music and not as much for sample based music. Physical modeling may become more common in the future. However I am sure that my sample libraries will keep me busy and productive for the next decade.
I am interested in the Jazz Horns library because Jazz or Sax are the only libraries I do not have.

P.S. I wanted to say that not everyone can be at the same level as Jordan Rudess. While I do not like all his music, he does has a incredible high musical IQ. Jordan went to Julliard at the age of nine. He is my inspiration plus a few others.


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## alanb (Feb 12, 2017)

neblix said:


> What is all of this about a 5.6 version?
> 
> There is no 5.6 version. The Straight Ahead Jazz Horns library is 5.5.2.880 compatible, as Andrew posted earlier in the thread. There will be no other version.
> 
> ...



What Andrew said was "Happy to report we are using 5.5.2.880 for this release. . . . Therefore our first 5.6 release will not be until late Summer."

He did not specify that "this release" and "our first 5.6 release" were two different libraries, so I thought that he was referring to two sequential releases of the same library. Now I understand—thanks for clarifying.




neblix said:


> Practically speaking, we don't foresee any reason in the future to break 5.5.x compatibility with the Jazz Horns library. So there's no reason to fear, anyway.



This is exactly what I wanted to know — _thank you, and thank you Andrew_. 

*Now* I'm looking forward to hearing demos!!


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## Lode_Runner (Feb 13, 2017)

Not that I'm impatient (well actually, I guess I am) but how soon is soon? I'm really curious to hear how this sounds. I went to the Straight Ahead website to hear the old version, but all demos and vids have been taken down...


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## rgarber (Feb 13, 2017)

I was impatient too and asked last week by email and one of the fellas wrote back essentially very soon. Much sooner than later, for sure. Sounds like they are extremely close to release.


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## exr777 (Feb 13, 2017)

Are we talking "Broadway Big Band" Extremely close to release?
Or is it this month?


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## exr777 (Feb 13, 2017)

I hope this is not the end Straight Ahead Samples.. I was also hoping for updates and evolution of all their libraries, and now this makes me think that it wont happen.
Very sad..


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 13, 2017)

Assuming all goes to plan, tomorrow  The library is done and encoded with serials, and uploaded to our server. I'm currently editing the full video tutorial. But in the meantime, please check out this video which shows the new "Smart Voicing" technology in action.



This shows just how powerful smart voicing can be. Here we have a full brass ensemble arrangement that is generated from block chord input and a melody line. No individual sequencing on separate MIDI tracks! Smart Voicing is intelligently reading each melody note in the context of the chord and scale, and creating harmonized voicing across all the instruments. Each instrument maintains their full articulation map including legato and glissando for maximum realism.

With Smart Voicing it's very easy to create full mockups* on a single track*, and you even have the ability to send the MIDI voicing to other instruments entirely.


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## John57 (Feb 13, 2017)

Is this library ensemble only or there will be a solo instruments as well?

P.S. I guess that the answer is: 
*13 solo brass and sax instruments*


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## playz123 (Feb 13, 2017)

No offense, but I don't seem to be hearing much in the way of noticeable dynamics and attack variations but do like the sound and the "voicing", which this video demonstrates very well. Maybe my old ears are finally failing?


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 13, 2017)

John57 said:


> Is this library ensemble only or there will be a solo instruments as well?
> 
> P.S. I guess that the answer is:
> *13 solo brass and sax instruments*



Correct - there are actually no recorded ensembles here. The multis we have use combinations of solo instruments with panning and Smart Voicing to create realistic ensembles.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Feb 13, 2017)

zircon_st said:


> Correct - there are actually no recorded ensembles here. The multis we have use combinations of solo instruments with panning and Smart Voicing to create realistic ensembles.



Does this mean that the old SA! Jazz Horns harmonized recordings are not included anymore? Admittedly they were hard to stitch naturally together, but the sound was really nice. I think I'm a bit worried if Smart Voiced solo instruments will sound as good


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## neblix (Feb 13, 2017)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Does this mean that the old SA! Jazz Horns harmonized recordings are not included anymore? Admittedly they were hard to stitch naturally together, but the sound was really nice. I think I'm a bit worried if Smart Voiced solo instruments will sound as good



The original SA Jazz Horns harmonies were not recordings, they were the solo instrument nki's given MIDI information and rendered out from a large session. In other words, no different than what we are doing now, in any ways other than that the new way is more powerful and grants your more options. So if you want the sound of the original harmonies, you can simply just play with the volume and pan mix of the solo instruments in the multi.

I'm sure @StraightAheadSamples could offer some insight as to how he mixed those older ones, though I do believe since he did the default mixes for the new version, he would simply recommend using the new ones. 



playz123 said:


> No offense, but I don't seem to be hearing much in the way of noticeable dynamics and attack variations but do like the sound and the "voicing", which this video demonstrates very well. Maybe my old ears are finally failing?



We have a wide variety of articulations (the same list as in the original version, in fact!) that will be showcased in upcoming, more energetic demos.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Feb 13, 2017)

playz123 said:


> No offense, but I don't seem to be hearing much in the way of noticeable dynamics and attack variations but do like the sound and the "voicing", which this video demonstrates very well. Maybe my old ears are finally failing?



Oh yeah, this is basically only sustains. Just wanted to show the Smart Voicing without a ton of other stuff going on. More demos with a plethora of articulations coming shortly.


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## playz123 (Feb 13, 2017)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Oh yeah, this is basically only sustains. Just wanted to show the Smart Voicing without a ton of other stuff going on. More demos with a plethora of articulations coming shortly.


Whew.....good to hear!  Thanks for the explanation! Cheers!


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## StraightAheadSamples (Feb 13, 2017)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Does this mean that the old SA! Jazz Horns harmonized recordings are not included anymore? Admittedly they were hard to stitch naturally together, but the sound was really nice. I think I'm a bit worried if Smart Voiced solo instruments will sound as good



@Rasmus Hartvig oh man, the short response is: these will sound the same out of the box, but they now have all articulations (legatos transitions, glissandos, etc) and are infinitely more customizable and flexible.

the long answer: it is as Nabeel said, basically the same way that I made mine. using solo instruments to create the ensemble voicings. except i did it the suuuperrrrr long way. i built each voicing using midi and then rendered them out. this not only took forever, it made the patches (as you may know) very large and cumbersome to use even on the most robust systems.

now, instead of pre-baking them into static, unchangeable wavs, we're doing the same thing in real-time using multis. truthfully, this is the way I wanted to achieve it in the first place, but I didn't have the know-how to make it happen. The guys at ISW have knocked it out of the park, turning my good (but ultimately imperfectly executed) idea, into something that works and is expandable. 

becuase of how we're achieving it now, i've *added several new chord qualities* (minor-major 7, augmented maj7, etc) and many more voicings to accommodate those new chords. now we have, *legato transitions between every voice* as well as *glisses* and all the other ones that were missing in the original. these add to the realism in a very real and immediately audible way. now, you can *change the balance* of the instruments which is turning out to be way more helpful than i originally imagined. you can even *change which instruments are playing which parts*. 

But as far as the out-of-the-box sound, i mixed and balanced them the same as i originally did. so, when you open the multi for the first time, you'll hear that same sound you remember from the original. just now you'll be able to adjust and refine that sound to suit the composition and your personal taste. 

truthfully, since we finished these multis, i've been playing with them non-stop. they sound so good and it's so exciting to hear them realized in a much more elegant way.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Feb 13, 2017)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> the long answer: it is as Nabeel said, basically the same way that I made mine. using solo instruments to create the ensemble voicings. except i did it the suuuperrrrr long way. i built each voicing using midi and then rendered them out.



Interesting! I had always believed that you had an INSANE sampling session where you recorded each and every chord in all its inversions and articulations. Come to think of it, that makes no sense at all :D

Really looking forward to playing with this new incarnation!


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## StraightAheadSamples (Feb 13, 2017)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Interesting! I had always believed that you had an INSANE sampling session where you recorded each and every chord in all its inversions and articulations. Come to think of it, that makes no sense at all :D
> 
> Really looking forward to playing with this new incarnation!



I think I did the math on that in the development stage, I can't remember exactly how long it would've taken, but it was a prohibitively massive amount of studio/session time. It probably wouldn't have worked anyways. To keep consistent tone across weeks of sessions like that...


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## rgarber (Feb 13, 2017)

Quickie question... so to upgrade we delete the original folder and its contents, then install the new version? No need to keep the old folder around, right? - Rich


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## markpfx (Feb 13, 2017)

Glad to see that you've sampled each player individually. I've always felt that to mock up a convincing jazz big band, each player needs to have a unique sound and style to give the ensemble character. You don't need to do that for classical music but it's important for jazz. 

The demo sounds really encouraging, one question: can the midi generated by the auto voicings be captured so we can finesse them if we want to ?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Feb 13, 2017)

markpfx said:


> Glad to see that you've sampled each player individually. I've always felt that to mock up a convincing jazz big band, each player needs to have a unique sound and style to give the ensemble character. You don't need to do that for classical music but it's important for jazz.
> 
> The demo sounds really encouraging, one question: can the midi generated by the auto voicings be captured so we can finesse them if we want to ?



Yeah, 13 different players is the only way.

And, yes, using Kontakt's "Send Midi to the oustide world" you can export the individual lines from the voicings, WITH all the appropriate dynamic/vibrato/etc CC's and articulation keyswitching. And tweak to your heart's desire.


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## neblix (Feb 13, 2017)

rgarber said:


> Quickie question... so to upgrade we delete the original folder and its contents, then install the new version? No need to keep the old folder around, right? - Rich



You can keep it for nostalgic purposes. :3


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## Tinpig (Feb 13, 2017)

This news about the resurrection of SA horns is fab! I was so close to buying the library but had been put off by the negative comments. I've had a very positive experience with ISW libraries so I'm definitely in on this one now. 
Any word on ISW taking on and updating other SA libraries?


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## sourcefor (Feb 13, 2017)

how does this compare to Chris hein horns?


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## neblix (Feb 13, 2017)

sourcefor said:


> how does this compare to Chris hein horns?



Since it hasn't been released yet, there aren't any user reviews, and it would seem silly for us developers to tell you that our product is better, so I will simply say wait and see! More demos will be released tomorrow.

That being said, here are some more objective, clear-cut differences:

Chris Hein Horns does not have any tech designed for the authentic mockup potential that our Smart Voicing feature brings. That kind of writing is inaccessible to those who haven't studied jazz arranging, and the S.V. system brings it to the fingertips of even a novice composer; *without* sacrificing any control that a more experienced composer would want. It has something to offer everyone.

Chris Hein Horns also does not have our *TACT* articulation system, which has a GUI that lets you program controlling articulations in whatever way you could possibly imagine. This is far beyond what CHH keyswitches will do for you, if you choose to take advantage of it.

As for the sound, you'll hear very soon!


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 14, 2017)

We're proud to announce the release of *Straight Ahead Jazz Horns*! Full info, demos, and walkthrough have been added to the original post, but here are the demos for your convenience -


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## Welldone (Feb 14, 2017)

I'm a big fan of other instruments by Straight Ahead Samples and Impact Soundworks. 

After listening to the Horns demos I have mixed feelings. The arrangement possibilities seem to be really great. Some passages, especially in the Tank, Noir and King demos, are really impressive and sound very realistic. On the other hand, some of the articulations, especially some sustains in the higher registers, sound "fake" and "synthy" to me. So I didn't hit the buy button yet. 

What are your impressions?


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## reddognoyz (Feb 14, 2017)

I think the arraigning software is amazing, I don't think the playing shows the instruments in there best light, I am guessing with proper massaging,(like most libraries require), this one will sound pretty darn good. The demo of the arranger software sounds accordion-like to me, but again, I think that's because of how it was demo'd. I very much doubt you'd hand out an arraignment that has different sections all playing the same parts. waaaaay too many voices going on at once imho

edit: I actually only listened to the video, my comments were directed at what I heard there, not on the sound cloud demos


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## nordicguy (Feb 14, 2017)

I've got this mixed feeling too about what I've heard so far.
I think too that it'll need some real tweaking to make it sounds something different then a solid block chords instead then a multiplayers blend, in lack of a better way to say it...
Surely lot of potential into it, ISW knows what it's all about when talking about Kontakt libraries.


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 14, 2017)

reddognoyz said:


> I think the arraigning software is amazing, I don't think the playing shows the instruments in there best light, I am guessing with proper massaging,(like most libraries require), this one will sound pretty darn good. The demo of the arranger software sounds accordion-like to me, but again, I think that's because of how it was demo'd. I very much doubt you'd hand out an arraignment that has different sections all playing the same parts. waaaaay too many voices going on at once imho
> 
> edit: I actually only listened to the video, my comments were directed at what I heard there, not on the sound cloud demos



To be clear with Smart Voicing, every instrument realistically only gets one MIDI note at a time. So if you have 4 Tpts + 4 Trombones loaded, you will only ever hear 8 instruments playing one note each. 

HOWEVER... It's still up to you to use dynamics and the right articulations to get the sound you want! The Smart Voicing teaser is a demonstration of what you can do with basically just one articulation (sustains, legato/gliss automatically) and simple MIDI input. 

*In general, *as with any virtual instrument, you'll always get the best results when you (1) select the right articulations - which we've made easier with TACT! - and (2) use expression (dynamics) appropriately. You should also keep in mind the general strengths and weaknesses of samples. Repeated sustain notes, even with RR, are often challenging compared to using a mix of articulations (stac, staccatissimo, quarters) or switching notes a little more often, for example.


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## prodigalson (Feb 14, 2017)

I thnk this sounds really good. jazz writing is phenomenally hard to pull off with samples and this def sounds a big step closer for me. Also, up until yesterday I was an ISW virgin, then I urgently needed a django style guitar library with recorded voicings in a variety of articulations for a cue on a deadline. Had a few loop libraries but nothing could get me the part I wanted. Lo and behold grabbed ISW's Django rhythm library and had the part I wanted in 20mins. Definitely inspired to keep shopping at ISW. 

Also, have to give props here to SA samples and ISW for doing this collaboration. It's a rare and inspiring example of developers taking advantage of complimentary skill sets and only helps us customers. 

SA Jazz Horns is on my list for sure now!


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## chimuelo (Feb 14, 2017)

I definitely like the newest release.
Tell me I can assign 2 x different artics for latch style pedaling and I'm buying it.
For example I want a sustain default artic and a shake on a latch meaning I hit the switch and get a shake, hit again and it returns to default sustain.
Other latch has falls then sustain on default artic.

I'm a simpleton who is safely sticking to current Libraries as I can program them to work for me.
The FS-6 is shown below.


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 14, 2017)

Interesting... How do the pedals work in terms of MIDI CC? What data are they sending?


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## chimuelo (Feb 14, 2017)

I get 4 x scenes per performance.
8 x continuous pedal assignments per scene.

CC, NRPN, RPN, Pitch, Prog.Chng., Channel Pressure, Note and Zone.

Here's back side options too.
Although from the Physis K4 Controller I can reassign functions from there as extra options too.


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 14, 2017)

With TACT you can configure up to 3 triggering rules, and these rules can use a combination of MIDI CC and keyswitch (there are other possible triggers, but these are the relevant ones in your case). You can also set the keyswitches to latching/non-latching.

So, if you know exactly what MIDI data the pedals are sending you should be able to configure it pretty fluidly. If I knew the exact specs of the setup and what you have control over, I could probably write a mini guide for it


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## galactic orange (Feb 14, 2017)

I'm almost tempted to get this just because "Tank" was in the demo set. Also "Trouble's Brewing" WOW. I could listen to that over and over. Great job on all the demos!


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## neblix (Feb 14, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> I definitely like the newest release.
> Tell me I can assign 2 x different artics for latch style pedaling and I'm buying it.
> For example I want a sustain default artic and a shake on a latch meaning I hit the switch and get a shake, hit again and it returns to default sustain.



Unfortunately, the mid articulations like shakes don't respond to MIDI CC. We can look at this in a future update, though!


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## chimuelo (Feb 14, 2017)

Well I do have some sophisticated aftertouch controls.
Could I maybe trigger shakes or falls using aft?

I'm picky just cause I use these tricks live, and it's important two hands are performing at all times.

I even route PBend to sustain or expression pedals sometimes.

I really spoil these artists and bands I work with.
They always realize when I'm gone and the guy following me has a split or two, no artics, etc.
Hell I even have 4 types of applause I summon from buttons according to audience size.
Boring songs that don't go over well I have crickets...


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## neblix (Feb 14, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> Well I do have some sophisticated aftertouch controls.
> Could I maybe trigger shakes or falls using aft?



Our scripting only supports triggering shakes and long falls (as opposed to normal falls) on keyswitch. These particular articulations are what we label *MID *articulations, they are triggered DURING a note and morph the note. The actual code that processes the *interruption *(you're holding a note, then hit *shakes *to transition) exists only in the keyswitch portion of the script processing.

Keep in mind this is different than how we approach normal articulation triggering. You can have a pedal for *QUARTERS *for example, and holding the pedal will make subsequent notes trigger the quarter note articulation; that is no issue. It is specifically *MID *articulations (what you want) that are an issue.

We can add it to the CC processing portion, but this may create unforeseen complications, so it is not something we will do immediately.

If you were able to rig your pedal to send a MIDI note (I would not consider that far out of reach), then you could simply have it act as a keyswitch, and achieve the functionality you are looking for.


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## chimuelo (Feb 14, 2017)

Vastman those are excellent Devices.
But I already have detection and editors on my Physis K4.
You will have a great time with those.
Once you learn to program and reassign it's terrible playing any other way.

And brotha man Neblix.
I can simply add another FS-6 and use note on/offs.
The hassle of that is timing your stomp while your holding notes so the next articulation can be triggered by the next sound played.
Gets dicey while sustaining a part, playing section licks with the left hand.

Always dreamed of having a default sustain artic available whenever the switch is released.
Adding another FS-6 will cover this.

But if yuze guys ever get such a feature for keyswitching it would make live players really happy.

I will buy this because it sounds great though regardless.
It should sit nicely with Session Pro and CHein Horns.

Cheerz


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## sourcefor (Feb 14, 2017)

Yeah I just bought this we will see how it goes..looks promising!


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## neblix (Feb 14, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> And brotha man Neblix.
> I can simply add another FS-6 and use note on/offs.
> The hassle of that is timing your stomp while your holding notes so the next articulation can be triggered by the next sound played.
> Gets dicey while sustaining a part, playing section licks with the left hand.



Unfortunately this is just the reality of how our shake works, regardless of how it's being performed. It has to be triggered during the sustain no matter what.

Fortunately though, if it's still held down when you play the next note, that next note won't be a shake (because it has to be DURING the note to trigger a shake. If it's before, it does nothing.) so maybe that could assist in easing your timing.


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## bbunker (Feb 15, 2017)

Congratulations on the release, first of all. Now, I don't know whether to post this, because there's a lot of really good stuff in this library, but I'm not going to be getting it now - and I thought it would be a no-brainer. The reason is that the pop and funk demos are great, because the voicings provide a lot of variety for that kind of work, with great unison, octave and triadic voicings, and the approaches sound great for that, and you're not looking to reinvent the wheel there. The problem I have is that for anything much beyond the surface of jazz, just close 4 gets really tiresome to my ear - I mean, I don't know anybody who writes shout choruses with just close 4, right?

What I'm really wondering is if there's going to be a voicing update? There just has to be drop 2 and drop 3 for the saxes, and some big band multis that are how people actually write would kick this thing into the next level - if you've got close 4 in the trumpets and bones, why not make a multi with drop 2 in the saxes locked to the 2nd trumpet to cover that 'tight shout chorus' sound? Or 'color triads' on dominant chords in the trumpets with wider trombone voicings and saxes filling in drop 2 for a more contemporary sound? Or fourth structures for bluesy shout choruses?

Now I thought that I could cop some of that with SA:JH by putting in different triads than the actual harmonies (like, say, playing an Ab major triad in the left hand just for the trumpets on a C dominant Alt) - and I'd probably get some fun results with that, but then I'd have to put in the individual notes in the bones, because you're stuck with either using those 4 voicing options or putting them in individually, right? There's nothing like the Auto-Arranger in LASS that assigns each of the notes to an instrument? And I wouldn't be happy with 4-way close trombones under that, so I'd be a bit stuck. 

I don't want to take anything away from what you've done with the package, which seems like a big step forward and an achievement in itself. It's just that for me, having all or some of those things in an update would actually be a 'game-changer.' I don't know how many other potential users would have the same concerns, of course - but for me personally it would be a huge difference.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Feb 15, 2017)

bbunker said:


> There just has to be drop 2 and drop 3 for the saxes, and some big band multis that are how people actually write would kick this thing into the next level - if you've got close 4 in the trumpets and bones, why not make a multi with drop 2 in the saxes locked to the 2nd trumpet to cover that 'tight shout chorus' sound? Or 'color triads' on dominant chords in the trumpets with wider trombone voicings and saxes filling in drop 2 for a more contemporary sound? Or fourth structures for bluesy shout choruses?
> 
> Now I thought that I could cop some of that with SA:JH by putting in different triads than the actual harmonies (like, say, playing an Ab major triad in the left hand just for the trumpets on a C dominant Alt) - and I'd probably get some fun results with that, but then I'd have to put in the individual notes in the bones, because you're stuck with either using those 4 voicing options or putting them in individually, right? There's nothing like the Auto-Arranger in LASS that assigns each of the notes to an instrument? And I wouldn't be happy with 4-way close trombones under that, so I'd be a bit stuck.
> 
> I don't want to take anything away from what you've done with the package, which seems like a big step forward and an achievement in itself. It's just that for me, having all or some of those things in an update would actually be a 'game-changer.' I don't know how many other potential users would have the same concerns, of course - but for me personally it would be a huge difference.



@bbunker Sorry if this wasn't clear in the release blurb. But we have basically *all *those voicings you mentioned.

- 4-part close in Tpts and Bones
- *Open voicings: the "color" tpt triads over open bones (both triadic and 7th chords bones)*
- Saxes - 4-part close, 4-part *drop 2*, *5-part close*, *5-part drop 2*, *5-part drop2&4*
- *Full ensemble w/ the Open Brass (color trumpet triads over open 7th bones) and Wide Saxes
-* plus unisons and octaves in all sections


The 4ths idea and the Drop-2 w/ 2nd trpt are both good ideas. I like that and will add it to the list for future multis. I have a running list of some other good standard ensemble setups.

Hope this clears that up. I'm working on a demo now that uses a lot more of the 5-part saxes (with some drop 2's and 4's).


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## Tinpig (Feb 15, 2017)

So forgive the basic question if the answer is staring me in the face, but I was wondering how the voicing script generates the same chord voicings/inversions say in a 4 bar loop being that there must different inversions in the chord library for each given chord?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Feb 15, 2017)

Tinpig said:


> So forgive the basic question if the answer is staring me in the face, but I was wondering how the voicing script generates the same chord voicings/inversions say in a 4 bar loop being that there must different inversions in the chord library for each given chord?



@Tinpig It's based on the melody note you play. So lets say, for simplicity's sake, we're using the 4 Trumpets - Triads multi/voicing and that the chord in the left hand is Cmaj (triad). If you play a "C" in the melody (right hand), it'll play a C triad with a C on top, so C-E-G-C. If you play an "E" in the melody, it'll play a C triad with an "E" on top, so E-G-C-E. Etc... It also will do tensions (9ths, 11ths, 13ths) and gets all kinds of fancy with approach chords and superimposed chords. 

But that is the basics of how it works. It's a really powerful arranging tool, i'm finding that I use the multis more and more because I know it's going to voice things how I would with all the individual instruments probably 98% of the time.


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## Tinpig (Feb 15, 2017)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> @Tinpig It's based on the melody note you play. So lets say, for simplicity's sake, we're using the 4 Trumpets - Triads multi/voicing and that the chord in the left hand is Cmaj (triad). If you play a "C" in the melody (right hand), it'll play a C triad with a C on top, so C-E-G-C. If you play an "E" in the melody, it'll play a C triad with an "E" on top, so E-G-C-E. Etc... It also will do tensions (9ths, 11ths, 13ths) and gets all kinds of fancy with approach chords and superimposed chords.
> 
> But that is the basics of how it works. It's a really powerful arranging tool, i'm finding that I use the multis more and more because I know it's going to voice things how I would with all the individual instruments probably 98% of the time.


Thanks for the info, so with the tensions can you specify which tensions you want for specific chords say Cmaj7#4 or G7b9 or Dm7b5 etc...


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## StraightAheadSamples (Feb 15, 2017)

Tinpig said:


> Thanks for the info, so with the tensions can you specify which tensions you want for specific chords say Cmaj7#4 or G7b9 or Dm7b5 etc...



yes exactly. you can play chords like that in the left hand. maj7#11, augmaj7, aug dom7, altered dominant, minor 7b5, min-maj7, 6 chords, etc... so that, coupled with the melody notes, it'll play any combination of tensions you want. and it will know to put #11's or b5's or b9 and #9's, etc. either you can know what you want and get it to play that, or you can just play what you're hearing and it'll get all those great sonorities.


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## Tinpig (Feb 15, 2017)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> yes exactly. you can play chords like that in the left hand. maj7#11, augmaj7, aug dom7, altered dominant, minor 7b5, min-maj7, 6 chords, etc... so that, coupled with the melody notes, it'll play any combination of tensions you want. and it will know to put #11's or b5's or b9 and #9's, etc. either you can know what you want and get it to play that, or you can just play what you're hearing and it'll get all those great sonorities.


Great, this looking rather good. I'm so pleased this library has a new lease of life. One last question, do the voicings always include the root of the chord, in other words can I use partial voicings in a section so the root is being taken by a different section and not doubled multiple times?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Feb 15, 2017)

Tinpig said:


> Great, this looking rather good. I'm so pleased this library has a new lease of life. One last question, do the voicings always include the root of the chord, in other words can I use partial voicings in a section so the root is being taken by a different section and not doubled multiple times?



only when it makes sense. so like, open low trombones basically always will. but the "color" triad trumpets mentioned a few times above, no. very seldomly actually. saxes often don't have the root. obviously, if you play the root in the melody, you're going to get it. but if you play a tension or 3rd or 7th, often not. i think it will be exactly how you'd want it.


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## Tinpig (Feb 15, 2017)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> yes exactly. you can play chords like that in the left hand. maj7#11, augmaj7, aug dom7, altered dominant, minor 7b5, min-maj7, 6 chords, etc... so that, coupled with the melody notes, it'll play any combination of tensions you want. and it will know to put #11's or b5's or b9 and #9's, etc. either you can know what you want and get it to play that, or you can just play what you're hearing and it'll get all those great sonorities.


I just realised I wrote #4 instead of #11, my brain was thinking Lydian and that raised 4 sound, thanks for the nomenclature correction.


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## Tinpig (Feb 15, 2017)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> only when it makes sense. so like, open low trombones basically always will. but the "color" triad trumpets mentioned a few times above, no. very seldomly actually. saxes often don't have the root. obviously, if you play the root in the melody, you're going to get it. but if you play a tension or 3rd or 7th, often not. i think it will be exactly how you'd want it.


Brilliant, I'm in!! Thanks for the prompt answers.


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## bbunker (Feb 15, 2017)

I'm glad I posted - I'm in 100% then.

I was actually going off the manual - it only lists 4 types! I went through the videos, and was a bit confused since one of them listed 'Open 7ths' (sounds like Drop 3?) but the manual didn't list it...


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## kurtvanzo (Feb 15, 2017)

zircon_st said:


> To be clear with Smart Voicing, every instrument realistically only gets one MIDI note at a time. So if you have 4 Tpts + 4 Trombones loaded, you will only ever hear 8 instruments playing one note each.
> 
> HOWEVER... It's still up to you to use dynamics and the right articulations to get the sound you want! The Smart Voicing teaser is a demonstration of what you can do with basically just one articulation (sustains, legato/gliss automatically) and simple MIDI input.
> 
> *In general, *as with any virtual instrument, you'll always get the best results when you (1) select the right articulations - which we've made easier with TACT! - and (2) use expression (dynamics) appropriately. You should also keep in mind the general strengths and weaknesses of samples. Repeated sustain notes, even with RR, are often challenging compared to using a mix of articulations (stac, staccatissimo, quarters) or switching notes a little more often, for example.



I like what you've built and how you've improved these horns, but I'm even more interested in working with the smart voicing multis with other instruments (as you did in the video with the strings).

Any chance of releasing the smart voicing on it's own? A multi that we could drop instruments into to create unique and unusual ensembles? Even more control and options on the smart voicing would be a great addition worth the extra purchase (range controls, octave drop options). Perhaps you could extend the voicing to include wider ranges and more variations. Seems like the idea could be expanded on without samples.


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 15, 2017)

Yes we're looking into making the Smart Voicing tech available as a standalone product.


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## C-Wave (Feb 15, 2017)

zircon_st said:


> Yes we're looking into making the Smart Voicing tech available as a standalone product.


Would love to see those voicing used with my VSL brass. Thanks for considering.


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 15, 2017)

We've just put up a new demo from Trey Pollard! Check out "9 to 5 Superhero", inspired by Michael Giacchino and his work on the Incredibles.


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## mark.warman (Feb 16, 2017)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> you can play chords like that in the left hand. maj7#11


Still trying to work out how I'd stretch my left hand to achieve that


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## noises on (Feb 16, 2017)

The demos seem to illustrate more of an ambient mike position. Have i missed the demos of a closer miked option?


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Feb 16, 2017)

I'm loving this so much! This time it's definitely done right. Great work guys.

I am however experiencing some intermittent clicks when playing the All Brass harmonized sustains / legato (on note transitions). CPU meter is nowhere near max, so I suspect it's something else. Is this something you are aware of / have experienced @StraightAheadSamples / @zircon_st / @neblix ?


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## neblix (Feb 16, 2017)

mark.warman said:


> Still trying to work out how I'd stretch my left hand to achieve that



C E F# G B, one per finger.



Rasmus Hartvig said:


> I'm loving this so much! This time it's definitely done right. Great work guys.
> 
> I am however experiencing some intermittent clicks when playing the All Brass harmonized sustains / legato (on note transitions). CPU meter is nowhere near max, so I suspect it's something else. Is this something you are aware of / have experienced @StraightAheadSamples / @zircon_st / @neblix ?



I experienced these things when my buffer was too low. Even though it's not a CPU issue, raising my buffer fixed it.


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## mark.warman (Feb 16, 2017)

Ah, I see! So your clever engine won't interpret the F# as a sharpened 4th. That's Jazz-smart.


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## neblix (Feb 16, 2017)

mark.warman said:


> Ah, I see! So your clever engine won't interpret the F# as a sharpened 4th. That's Jazz-smart.



The engine can understand hundreds of ways to spell chords in your left hand, and is based on probability, weighting the bottom note the most as the guessed root, and then ascending upward if it didn't find a complete match. There will rarely be a case where playing the chord as naturally as you want won't match to the nearest chord quality, but it is theoretically possible to fool it into thinking it's some other chord. If that happens, you could let us know and we could add the spelling to the database!


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 16, 2017)

Here's a totally naked/dry version of the "9 to 5 Superhero" demo. Keep in mind that the tuning and timing 'slop' in the ensemble is totally adjustable using Smart Voicing!


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## gyprock (Feb 16, 2017)

Great improvements in this new version. Fast forward to the future where I have completed an entire arrangement with a mix of ensemble multis and individual instruments. Now I want to export the production to Sibelius for charts. I'm using Cubase 9.

Thinking aloud, I suppose I will copy the midi from the instruments within the multi to the 13 individual instruments. Then I will create a file copy with keyswitches and controllers removed and then transpose the midi for each instrument into the correct range on the piano. I will then quantize to get readable rhythms. From there I will export an XML or midi file and import into Sibelius and then add manually the articulations and dynamics. Any further suggestions?

I remember there used to be a product that would translate midi from a DAW including keyswitches and controller data to Sibelius (or maybe Finale). If this is still available (which I doubt) then the task would be a lot easier although there would be some hefty initial mapping to figure out.

When the first version of SA Jazz Horns came out I had managed to interface Notion successfully to the individual instruments and the multis so I could score in notation and the written articulations etc would playback correctly. I even had a notation based chord track which would correctly switch the voicings. Unfortunately I had performance issues at the time so I didn't pursue the concept any further. With the new version and new scripting I'll attempt to interface once again. Likewise with Dorico once its playback engine is up to speed.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Feb 16, 2017)

noises on said:


> The demos seem to illustrate more of an ambient mike position. Have i missed the demos of a closer miked option?


@noises on


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## Ah_dziz (Feb 16, 2017)

Are there any mutes in there? Seems like a bummer if not. Still gonna buy it though. I can't help it.


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## neblix (Feb 16, 2017)

Ah_dziz said:


> Are there any mutes in there? Seems like a bummer if not. Still gonna buy it though. I can't help it.



Unfortunately, no mutes... yet.


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 16, 2017)

BTW - The included mic positions are close and dry, as for these styles of music you're generally not recording in a concert hall or stage but rather in a treated studio. (Which also allows them to have more bite and sizzle than orch horns.) That gives the most flexibility for mixing - but we also included a number of convolution IRs in the built-in reverb, of which I particularly like the plates/rooms and small halls for that "big band" sound.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Feb 17, 2017)

neblix said:


> I experienced these things when my buffer was too low. Even though it's not a CPU issue, raising my buffer fixed it.



Is that the ASIO buffer or Kontakt streaming buffer?


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## neblix (Feb 17, 2017)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Is that the ASIO buffer or Kontakt streaming buffer?



ASIO Buffer.


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## rainierjmartin (Feb 17, 2017)

Does this have any mutes?


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Feb 17, 2017)

rainierjmartin said:


> Does this have any mutes?


Answered only 4 posts above your own.


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## rainierjmartin (Feb 17, 2017)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Answered only 4 posts above your own.


Whoops, didn't see that. Thanks.


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## gyprock (Feb 17, 2017)

I've been using the Kontakt "send midi to the outside world" to have a strings patch play the output of a trumpet ensemble. This was shown in the video walkthrough and is great. Whilst this works fine from an audible perspective, I've been getting duplicated notes. Below is the message I sent to ISW tech support. I'm posting it here for information and would be interested to hear if anyone else is have the same issue in another DAW aside from Cubase.


"Attached is a screen grab of the Cubase midi monitor showing the multiple notes that are output when using the Kontakt "send midi to the outside world". I am playing a single note C in a trumpet ensemble and the script is generating a 4 part close chord C A G E which I am monitoring on another instrument track connected to strings as in your video walkthrough. As you can see, there are multiple Note On messages that are duplicated. When I release the key, most of the Note On messages sent have a velocity of 0 but some have a velocity of 39 indicating a spurious retriggering of the chord. Is this a bug in the script?

In future, will it be possible to send the output of the script to the relevant solo instruments on their individual tracks so that exporting to Sibelius on a track by track basis could be facilitated?"


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## neblix (Feb 17, 2017)

gyprock said:


> I've been using the Kontakt "send midi to the outside world" to have a strings patch play the output of a trumpet ensemble. This was shown in the video walkthrough and is great. Whilst this works fine from an audible perspective, I've been getting duplicated notes. Below is the message I sent to ISW tech support. I'm posting it here for information and would be interested to hear if anyone else is have the same issue in another DAW aside from Cubase.
> 
> 
> "Attached is a screen grab of the Cubase midi monitor showing the multiple notes that are output when using the Kontakt "send midi to the outside world". I am playing a single note C in a trumpet ensemble and the script is generating a 4 part close chord C A G E which I am monitoring on another instrument track connected to strings as in your video walkthrough. As you can see, there are multiple Note On messages that are duplicated. When I release the key, most of the Note On messages sent have a velocity of 0 but some have a velocity of 39 indicating a spurious retriggering of the chord. Is this a bug in the script?
> ...



Are you using "script generated notes" or "incoming notes"? This was a mistake in the video and should be corrected. The proper usage of sending Smart Voicing data outwards is using "incoming notes" and "incoming CC".


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## gyprock (Feb 17, 2017)

Thanks for you quick response. Well that was easy. Problem solved. I changed to incoming notes and it works perfectly. As to the question of have individual voices output onto separate tracks, will that ever be possible?

At least now I can export the entire clean chord to Sibelius and then use the arrange command to split out the voices. I could also do that in Cubase with some copy, pasting and deleting onto separate tracks.


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## Soundhound (Feb 17, 2017)

I was just trying to do this, but have never dealt with sending midi out of Kontakt before. I'm in Logic, could anyone point me to a quick primer on how to route the midi out of Kontakt to another instrument?


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## neblix (Feb 17, 2017)

We will be creating a tutorial video for advanced Smart Voicing workflows in the future.

To answer both of your questions, here is the optimal advanced workflow for Smart Voicing instruments that allows maximum control. *I repeat, this is a somewhat advanced way of doing things*. Only do it this way if you care deeply about efficiency at the expense of a little rote work. There are lots of shortcuts you can do but this will start cutting down what you can really do. But for me, it's easy, so I recommend learning this way.

1. Load an isolated new Kontakt instance with your chosen multi, and *replace the nki's with blank nki's *so that it will essentially play nothing. Set "incoming notes" and "incoming CC's" on for maximum accurate recorded information.
2. Place the instruments you would like to receive voices on the appropriate MIDI channels in another instance of Kontakt.
3. Set the Kontakt instance in step 1 (the Smart Voicing) *as the input device *for the MIDI tracks running to your Kontakt instance in step 2 (the instruments). In other words, the Kontakt instance outputting the *Smart Voicing *is essentially being treated like a virtual MIDI keyboard that is playing notes.
4. You'll realize step 2 is entirely arbitrary; if you've used DAW's for even a little while, you know you can send a MIDI track to any sampler, any synth, etc... so do whatever you desire with the data! I once routed the Smart Voicing to 10 Kontakt nki's and some external Omnisphere patches, all in one colossal real-time ensemble.

This is a mental image of what you've done:





Here is an image of what my step 1 Kontakt instance looks like, as well as the track setup. In each track, the top selector is the VST it is sending MIDI data to, and the bottom selector is where it is receiving MIDI data from. You'll notice, my "Smart Voicing" track is receiving MIDI from my Roland RD-800, and the actual saxophones are receiving MIDI data from the *Smart Voicing Kontakt Instance*, channels chosen appropriately.






Then, here is my step 2 Kontakt instance (the actual instruments) looks like. You can see I've obviously had to remove the multiscript, otherwise it would intercept the incoming MIDI data and again generate its own voicings... which is a bit silly and will break. You can remove the script by hitting "Preset -> Factory -> Empty" in the top left corner.






Lastly, it's not enough to record arm your Smart Voicing. Since it is acting like a virtual MIDI keyboard, you must record arm your individual instruments receiving data as well.






This is an example of what happens using this method. I have played into the first track in recording, which in real-time recorded material to the 5 other tracks. It is not shown, but if I'm using CC's and articulation keyswitches, these will also properly recorded to the individual instruments as well. Of course, the keyswitches may be meaningless on 3rd party libs.

Additionally, you will notice some extra MIDI automation happening by default. This is midi NRPN data, used in real-time to randomly detune and smear the voices based on what you selected in the Humanize parameters in the multi. Yes, even the exact humanization data generated by the Smart Voicing is recorded using this method. I wasn't kidding when I said *maximum control*. But again, this NRPN data is meaningless to any 3rd party instruments, and is also just kind of incomprehensible to begin with, so you're better off deleting it than trying to interface with it.

A final look at your end result. Again, I could totally be doing so much more here, duplicating the MIDI tracks, sending to other VST's, doing 16 channel simultaneous modwheel rides, etc.:






Let me know if you have any questions!

P.S. I recommend running Smart Voicing through nice string samples with good expression and legato. Absolutely gorgeous!


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## Henning (Feb 17, 2017)

Whoa Nabeel! Real eye-opener this one! Thumbs up for this info!


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## gyprock (Feb 17, 2017)

Perfect. Thanks for the effort explaining this.


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## Soundhound (Feb 18, 2017)

Thanks so much, I'm going to give it a try today.


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## Soundhound (Feb 18, 2017)

Question: Is the ability to set an input device different in Studio One 3 different than in Logic? I assume it is, but can't seem to achieve that in Logic?


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## neblix (Feb 18, 2017)

I am not sure how it is done in Logic. In Studio One 3, for me the Kontakt instance simply shows up as another input device next to my MIDI keyboard in the list.

EDIT:
It seems design issues in Logic make achieving this very difficult. It says in here, for example, you can do it if Kontakt is in standalone mode. https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=111775

I would consult the entirety of the thread, just to be thorough.

My recommendation would be to install a virtual midi software solution on your computer that you can freely route MIDI to and fro from different sources and destinations.

Since this is more a general Logic issue, I can't spend too much time assisting you with it. But I'm sure there are plenty of resources out there!


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 18, 2017)

I also can't speak to Logic. However in FL Studio, each plugin has a MIDI input and MIDI output port. I set my Smart Voicing Kontakt instance to have, say, MIDI port 5 as output, and then another plugin to use MIDI port 5 as input... Maybe it works like this in Logic?


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## Soundhound (Feb 18, 2017)

Thanks all. It seems this might be doable in the Environment Window, where I've never ventured. I'm asking over in a Logic forum to see if it can be done without a PhD.


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## gyprock (Feb 18, 2017)

I can't get this to work in Cubase 9. I've tried everything including resorting to using the Input Transformer. The latter definitely requires a PhD to use. I've only got a humble honours degree in electrical engineering and I can't figure it out.

I create one Kontakt rack instrument called Saxes SV. This contains 5 empty instruments and just the script.
I created another Kontakt rack instrument called Saxes Inst. This contains 5 saxes and no script.

I have a Saxes SV midi track with my keyboard as input and the Saxes SV rack instance as output going to midi channel 1.

I have two test midi channels Alto1 and Alto2. These both have the Saxes SV instance as input and the outputs go to the Saxes Inst rack instance to their respective instruments on midi channels 1 and 2.

Anyway, no channel filtering or separation occurs. When I hit record, both Alto1 and Alto2 get all 4 notes from the script and they look like they have all been passed on midi channel 1.


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## neblix (Feb 18, 2017)

I see, so this is a Cubase issue of being unable to select input channels on a MIDI device? Coupled with the Logic virtual MIDI issue, I'm kind of disappointed and I expected more of big name DAW's... :/

After watching a (very painfully blurry) video on using the Input Transformer, it looks like you can load a Channel Filtering preset to pass a MIDI channel number. Try doing this.

I've annotated a graphic for analogizing the situation here:






I suppose in light of this we could design something at ISW that would facilitate manual voice isolation, but consider it would basically require you to load 5 Kontakt instances (one per voice) to get it to work; it's really a Cubase issue, not a Kontakt issue.


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## gyprock (Feb 18, 2017)

On my alto1 and alto2 midi tracks I changed the midi out channel in cubase to "any". So I'm now getting the instrument only Kontakt instance to receive the 5 different notes of the voicing. This means that my setup of the 2 Kontakt instances is correct and that there is internal communication between the two.

I put the input transformer set to local on each of the alto tracks. This first one was set to pass midi ch1 and the second was set to pass midi ch2. This however didn't work. Maybe there needs to be a target operation set as well in the input transformer. I need to read up more on this. I also watched the blurry video that you referred to yesterday.


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## gyprock (Feb 18, 2017)

I got it to work. I found this on the Steinberg forum:

"Using the Local Input Transformer It's channel Unqual to x that you need. Also, make sure you have 'Filter' set in the function menu at the bottom, and that you have the module turned on."

In my case I didn't have the module turned on. Wow, what a piece of intuitive software design. As for setting the midi channels to "any", I've gone back to explicitly setting to the relevant midi channel.


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## Ah_dziz (Feb 18, 2017)

I built a giant chord splitting setup with humanization that could be used to combine multiple libraries for fun once and then I ran into this issue. You'll need to filter out all the channels that you don't use or you'll get everything combined. It's stupid. I contacted steinberg multiple times and never heard a thing. It's odd since this was totally possible in the very first of cubase I ever used.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Feb 20, 2017)

I really miss having a keyswitch to control "Approach". Is there anyway to automate this?


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 20, 2017)

We can do that in an update, no problem! By the way, the *PDF manual* has been updated to reflect the full articulation list if anyone wasn't sure about what is and is not included.


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## bbunker (Feb 21, 2017)

Not to harp on about this, but here's what's mentioned in the post above:

"- 4-part close in Tpts and Bones
- *Open voicings: the "color" tpt triads over open bones (both triadic and 7th chords bones)*
- Saxes - 4-part close, 4-part *drop 2*, *5-part close*, *5-part drop 2*, *5-part drop2&4*
- *Full ensemble w/ the Open Brass (color trumpet triads over open 7th bones) and Wide Saxes
-* plus unisons and octaves in all sections"

and here's what's still listed in the manual:

"First, note the Voicing dropdown in the UI. This switches the type of chord voicings that will be generated.
Triads: Straightforward chords built on triads.
Unisons: All instruments play the same note.
Octaves: Instruments play in octaves for a bigger sound.
4-Part Close: Tighter voicings."

Which also corresponds with the voicing dropdowns that are visible on the demo videos. And with the four yellow keys in the Kontakt visualization of the keyboard in the manual, (although the manual lists F6-B6 as the range available for voicings, which would be an additional three keys beyond that, right?)

I'm just finding it difficult to tell what's actually implemented now, what's planned on being implemented, and how those correspond to the voicing keyswitches from F6-B6 for each section...any light you guys can shed on this?


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## rgarber (Feb 21, 2017)

What as you said was written above was from Straight Ahead Samples. ISW revamped their original Straight Ahead Jazz Horns. - Rich

http://vi-control.net/community/thr...-demos-video-inside.59722/page-5#post-4055127


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## bbunker (Feb 21, 2017)

rgarber said:


> What as you said was written above was from Straight Ahead Samples. ISW revamped their original Straight Ahead Jazz Horns. - Rich
> 
> http://vi-control.net/community/thr...-demos-video-inside.59722/page-5#post-4055127



Yes, I know - but SAS have answered 3 or 4 questions on this thread, so I don't think that they're confused about whether we're talking about the original SA Jazz Horns or the revamp.


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## nordicguy (Feb 22, 2017)

Due to Logic's midi limitation, but not only, having this multi script made available as a separate buying option would be... nothing else then awesome!


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## rgarber (Feb 22, 2017)

bbunker said:


> Yes, I know - but SAS have answered 3 or 4 questions on this thread, so I don't think that they're confused about whether we're talking about the original SA Jazz Horns or the revamp.



Right, but the new release is a collaboration between the two, ISW and Straight Ahead so SAS is explaining the current version and not the former. - Rich


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## bbunker (Feb 22, 2017)

rgarber said:


> Right, but the new release is a collaboration between the two, ISW and Straight Ahead so SAS is explaining the current version and not the former. - Rich



Rich, I don't understand what you're saying - I'm asking about the voicings in the current version, not the former. The manual quote is from the current version, not the former. SAS was (as you said) explaining the current version, not the former. What does the former version have to do with anything?


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## rgarber (Feb 22, 2017)

bbunker said:


> Rich, I don't understand what you're saying - I'm asking about the voicings in the current version, not the former. The manual quote is from the current version, not the former. SAS was (as you said) explaining the current version, not the former. What does the former version have to do with anything?



Sorry, I shouldn't have used the word former. I thought you were asking a simple question as to which to believe, the manual or the posting. Former was a bad choice of words for me to use. I thought that post would answer your question, I see it does not. My apologies. - Rich


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## neblix (Feb 22, 2017)

The 4 voicings (unison, oct, triads, 4part close) you see in the video are for the 4 trumpets multi only. The other multis have other voicings.

That section of the manual was written without consultation between different departments, and so it was lacking crucial information; it's being corrected now to have a full list of what is available. Furthermore, another Smart Voicing video will arrive in the future, with more details and demonstration.

But just as an aside, if you watch the current Smart Voicing teaser, you do notice that there in the multi script, for the All Brass multi that is loaded "Open 7ths" is selected. So that if nothing else has been shown other voicings do exist and are included.


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 23, 2017)

@StraightAheadSamples is working on revising the voicing descriptions for the manual as we speak.  We'll post as soon as it's available.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Mar 5, 2017)

Another big wish for the next update: Ability to toggle the smart voicing script on and off on the fly. That way I can switch between thickened line and individually written lines without having to load all the instruments once more in a new Kontakt instance.

And while I'm at it, a minor bug: When triggering Long Falls on the Saxes multi at low dynamics, Alto Sax 2 hangs on its note while the rest of the saxes do the fall.


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## neblix (Mar 5, 2017)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Another big wish for the next update: Ability to toggle the smart voicing script on and off on the fly. That way I can switch between thickened line and individually written lines without having to load all the instruments once more in a new Kontakt instance.
> 
> And while I'm at it, a minor bug: When triggering Long Falls on the Saxes multi at low dynamics, Alto Sax 2 hangs on its note while the rest of the saxes do the fall.



We've already thought of this, actually. We can definitely do that.

Additionally, we'll take a look at the Alto Sax bug.


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## Ah_dziz (Mar 27, 2017)

If I replace the instruments in the SV multiscript with the normal instruments from the library (with GUIs and stuff) will it cause any issues that you guys are aware of? I'd like to still go in and adjust the articulation mapping and whatnot while using the voicing script, but it would appear this is not possible unless the single instrument patches are reloaded into the multi.


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## Ah_dziz (Mar 27, 2017)

Also great job on the library. It made me care much less about the stupid fable sounds never arriving update.


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## Andrew Aversa (Mar 27, 2017)

You can expand the instruments in the SV multis and edit them however you want! Just click the instrument icon ("ISW", right under the wrench).


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## Ah_dziz (Mar 27, 2017)

zircon_st said:


> You can expand the instruments in the SV multis and edit them however you want! Just click the instrument icon ("ISW", right under the wrench).


Derp. Thanks.


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## Ah_dziz (Mar 27, 2017)

Would the smart voicing multiscript work with bravura brass? I'd love to hear it with the humanization. I don't have bravura on my laptop though so I can't test it out.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Mar 27, 2017)

neblix said:


> Additionally, we'll take a look at the Alto Sax bug.



I just noticed today that sometimes the Alto 2 sax stops responding to CC 1. The dynamics slider still moves, but the note just hangs there. Might be related to the fall bug.

Any ballpark idea of when the next update will be out?


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## neblix (Apr 1, 2017)

Ah_dziz said:


> Would the smart voicing multiscript work with bravura brass? I'd love to hear it with the humanization. I don't have bravura on my laptop though so I can't test it out.



The multiscript sending harmonies and the input velocities would work just fine with any Kontakt library.

Unfortunately, the multiscript *humanization feature *requires that the library directly supports the protocol used (it's a handful of specific NRPN messages that have to be responded to in the Kontakt script).



Rasmus Hartvig said:


> I just noticed today that sometimes the Alto 2 sax stops responding to CC 1. The dynamics slider still moves, but the note just hangs there. Might be related to the fall bug.
> 
> Any ballpark idea of when the next update will be out?



Interesting... we've had similar bugs and fixed them.

The next update will likely be out in the next 4-5 months. We apologize for the delay, but we have a ton of other cool sample library projects coming up that require our attention, especially after remaking SA Jazz Horns took up more than half a year of our time. After we catch up on our other projects, we will be updating SA Jazz Horns very nicely, including:

*-New content for the Smart Voicing. New multi setups, and more voicing styles for current setups.
-Muted Brass instruments (!!!) Trey has been working on this.
-Lots of bug fixes based on user feedback!*

Stay tuned for later this year!


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## Lassi Tani (Oct 10, 2017)

neblix said:


> -Muted Brass instruments (!!!) Trey has been working on this.



Any news about muted brass?


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Oct 10, 2017)

... and the eagerly awaited update


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## Lode_Runner (Oct 11, 2017)

sekkosiki said:


> Any news about muted brass?


I would love to know as well... but:

neblix was last seen:
Jun 28, 2017


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## Andrew Aversa (Oct 11, 2017)

Don't worry, Nabeel is still working with us! He just hasn't been spending much time on the forums. The update is taking a little longer than expected because Trey (who created all the voicing tables) has been touring actively. However, as of a week ago he's back so we're looking forward to getting the ball rolling again.


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## TeamLeader (Nov 29, 2017)

what version is the current version??? 2.0? And how close might we be to update?


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Feb 14, 2018)

So it's been a year, and I soooo want to use this library way more than I am right now. Unfortunately the still unaddressed bugs makes it a frustrating exercise, so the library ends up gathering dust. That's too bad, because there's a lot to like, and it feels close to working like it should.

So, please ISW: What's the status of the update? This library was already abandoned once before you took it aboard, so it would be nice with some news to stop the creeping feeling of deja vu 

cc @zircon_st


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## nordicguy (Feb 14, 2018)

Also, iirc, you were thinking about the option to sell the Smart Voicing script on his own.
Any update about that?


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## neblix (Feb 14, 2018)

Hi guys, Nabeel here.

Trey (from Straight Ahead Samples) is still very busy with his other work and so the Jazz Horns update is being pushed further and further back.

The Smart Voicing standalone system idea is still on the table, but honestly we have to figure out the best way to sell it, because it is essentially just a script you can pop into any multi and share with people as a text file, and there's literally no way to copy protect that. 

It should be mentioned that ISW has a lot of other projects on the table outside of SA Jazz Horns; we have a big variety of libraries planned this year, and with only me and Mario scripting, there's only so much we can get to.

I'll talk to Andrew when he returns from his vacation about pushing this up in priority, since it has been a year now and it's about time. If not, I probably can at least look at the sax bug.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Feb 15, 2018)

Hi Nabeel.

Great to see signs of life from you guys.

I get that you are busy with lots of projects, but this one is a little special seeing as the original ISW release was supposed to address the usability issues that plagued the older SA! version. Of course a shiny update with fixes and improvements / new features would be very nice (and I really hope that will happen) - but right now the most important thing would just be a few bug fixes to alleviate some frustrating behavior.

Hoping for a small fixer-update soon-ish (bonus points if it includes automatable Approach  )


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## TeamLeader (Feb 16, 2018)

pleeeeeeze do the fixer upper


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## jvsax (Feb 16, 2018)

Honestly, from your business standpoint, why even think about selling the Smart Voicing algorithms as a separate product when you can easily get customers (like me) to pony up for the full Jazz Horns product, and keep your algorithm investment protected? Instead, why not do this, which would make your existing product even more compelling:

*-New content for the Smart Voicing. New multi setups, and more voicing styles for current setups.*


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## mojamusic (Feb 25, 2018)

Are there any examples of the legato feature in any of the demos?


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## SoNowWhat? (Feb 27, 2018)

If mutes are being looked at is there a chance that plunger will be included?


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Sep 17, 2018)

neblix said:


> I'll talk to Andrew when he returns from his vacation about pushing this up in priority, since it has been a year now and it's about time. If not, I probably can at least look at the sax bug.



I whipped this out again for a project, and within short time I hit all the same frustrating bugs again. Also (and I can't even remember if this has been adressed since it's been so long) I often experience extreme cpu spikes and audio dropouts after having used an All Brass multi for a while. Not in the beginning, but slowly increasing over hours of use.

It's been 6 months, so I'd say this is becoming very much overdue.


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## Andrew Aversa (Sep 17, 2018)

This is going to be a top priority as soon as Shreddage 3 work wraps up (1-2 weeks). I apologize that it took so long; thankfully, @neblix has just recently joined us full-time!


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## TeamLeader (Sep 18, 2018)

zircon_st said:


> This is going to be a top priority as soon as Shreddage 3 work wraps up (1-2 weeks). I apologize that it took so long; thankfully, @neblix has just recently joined us full-time!



Great news. Lets get that DONE !


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## chimuelo (Sep 18, 2018)

I’m anxious to get SAJ and Shreddage 3.
The developers website and libraries just get better & better.


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## jvsax (Sep 18, 2018)

Excellent news, looking forward to it!


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## neblix (Oct 23, 2018)

@Rasmus Hartvig

I've had a look at the Alto Sax 2 and can't seem to replicate these bugs.

- All Falls Long articulations are triggering correctly, both in the saxes multi as well as by itself. The only thing I can see is that lower notes in the bottom of its range trigger nothing, because there were no fall samples recorded for them. I don't get any hung notes. I'd like you to elaborate further on how to get this bug to happen, maybe send a MIDI.






- I can not replicate Alto Sax 2 not responding to Dynamics slider. Are you sure SUSTAINS is not set to Dynamic "Velocity" in TACT? If so and you simply switch it to XFADE, it should be just fine.







- Additionally, I'm not sure what would be happening with All Brass causing spikes over time. Are there any messages in the bottom of the Kontakt window here when it happens? Additionally, try turning off the internal Kontakt FX on the instruments as it may be Kontakt FX related. If that doesn't work, it would be great if you could send a MIDI (however long it needs to be) in order to get the bug to happen.

Lastly, what version of Kontakt do you use? I can send a new latest nkr/nkc to see if these bugs still happen when you update.


*NOTE FOR EVERYONE:
*
Since Shreddage 3's release is right around the corner, and my work there is relaxed, I'd like to knock out these bug fixes for everyone as quickly as possible, and can fix them once I get them to happen. MIDI Files expedite the process of being able to locate and track the bugs.

Also, I'm very sorry to say that it has been very difficult to remain in contact with Trey of Straight Ahead Samples, and since he is the driving force behind creating the voicing types for the Smart Voicing algorithm, it doesn't seem like we'll be able to put the new voicing types in or the muted brass (also was being created by him) any time soon. All we (at Impact Soundworks) can do at this point is fix bugs in the software and add minor scripting improvements until the collaborative schedule can be picked up again, which is basically indeterminate.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Oct 25, 2018)

Hi Nabeel - great to hear from you again.

Good stuff first: Luckily the Alto Sax 2 dynamics issue was exactly what you described - and easily fixed. Though it does seem that the instruments and multis actually ship with the Alto 2 saxes set to "Velocity" - that's why I was (too) quick to assume it was a bug  That small fix should probably go into the update to not cause the same confusion for anyone else.

I can still reproduce the long falls not triggering for some instruments - I've had it happen both for Lead Sax and Alto sax 2. But unfortunately is seems to only pop up intermittently, so when I tried making a midi file for you I couldn't make it happen consistently. I'll keep a lookout and will try to document it better if it happens again.

The cpu spiking is also hard to consistently recreate. I tried the Kontakt cpu profiler, and it seems that the cpu is way higher right at the onset of notes, and then falls to a low level when they sustain. I suspect it might be because the smart voicing script needs to do a lot of processing at each note start?
For now I'll try to make do with a larger audio buffer and/or freezing tracks when it happens.

Since it's been a good long while since I noticed these things first, I've upgraded Kontakt a few times so unfortunately I can't say with any certainty which versions I was on back then. I'm on Kontakt 5.8.1 now, and I can at least say that the cpu "issue" has popped up while using that version.

Also, I've also upgraded to Kontakt 6, and this is what the multis look like when loaded there:




Is there anything I can do to fix that myself or do you guys need to tweak something?

So bottom line is: No real showstopper bugs that I can't work around right now.

That leaves only a few big wishes that I hope you can get into the update:
- Ability to turn the smart voicing script on/off with a keyswitch.
- Ability to switch "Approach" with keyswitches.

Looking forward to the update!


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## neblix (Oct 26, 2018)

Yes, the same thing you had to do when purchasing the library. You have to move the graphic files into the necessary folder in My Documents/; you have to do it again because Kontakt 6 is installed as a different program on your computer than Kontakt 5. It does not overwrite and share the same content folders.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Jan 19, 2020)

neblix said:


> Since Shreddage 3's release is right around the corner, and my work there is relaxed, I'd like to knock out these bug fixes for everyone as quickly as possible, and can fix them once I get them to happen. MIDI Files expedite the process of being able to locate and track the bugs.



Did I miss anything, or has the update been forgotten in a flurry of other stuff?


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## TeamLeader (Jan 19, 2020)

I am getting the impression is they are letting the product die instead of fixing the problems. :( I hope I am wrong, but we were told it would be reworked by oct 2019, and still not done.


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## Andrew Aversa (Jan 19, 2020)

I apologize for the delay. We will look at this in the immediate future (most of the team is still at NAMM), but if anyone has any outstanding bugs related to MIDI, please *send us* the MIDI so we can reproduce your issue.


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## neblix (Jan 23, 2020)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Did I miss anything, or has the update been forgotten in a flurry of other stuff?



I sat down and responded with a detailed post showing that I could not replicate your issues, and you offered to further document when the problem seemed to happen (I have not seen any more information).

I posted an invitation for people to share MIDI's and any other information to reproduce bugs that people are having, and nothing has come up since then.


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## José Herring (Jan 23, 2020)

Demos sound great. How are people getting along with this library? 

I have this teneous opportunity right now to do a Soul music musical. Need me some pop brass. My old stuff isn't cutting it any more and NI session horns--an't make heads or tails of them. Tone is good, but so unmusical to work with. Mostly I need some good saxes.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Jan 24, 2020)

@neblix Hey Nabeel. Sorry, I must have either missed your request for midi files or been super busy and forgotten about it. There were a few things I thought were bugs that you helped me clear up though. Thanks for that!

It's been so long now that I don't quite remember which projects I had problems in, so I guess we should just assume that it works as intended. If I encounter anything weird I'll be sure to export some midi right away.

But apart from bugs that may or may not be there, I'm still REALLY wishing for a small update that lets me automate both Approach, and turning the Smart Voicing script on and off. Is the a feasible thing to add and push out as an update?


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## TeamLeader (Jan 24, 2020)

neblix said:


> I sat down and responded with a detailed post showing that I could not replicate your issues, and you offered to further document when the problem seemed to happen (I have not seen any more information).
> 
> I posted an invitation for people to share MIDI's and any other information to reproduce bugs that people are having, and nothing has come up since then.



Thank you Nabel. I can tell you this which hopefully might help. Even on 12 core macpros with 96GB ram, SAJH with the scripting will pin the processors intermittently (Out of nowhere) and spit out pops and noise. This is on PT rigs and DP rigs. 512 buffer seamless on major heavy hitter libs. And as our team had reported before, the front end articulations like scoop etc, do not always reset to to the previous articulation. We had to build a macro of sorts to guarantee that it would be reset to 'sustains'. Each of my clients who steered into SAJH have also experienced that anomaly too. This has been reported many months ago. Hope that helps!


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## EvilDragon (Jan 24, 2020)

MIDI files and clear videos showing the issue(s) are more helpful, though


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## TeamLeader (Jan 24, 2020)

EvilDragon said:


> MIDI files and clear videos showing the issue(s) are more helpful, though


Understood! when we reported this, no files were requested. Its a good idea though. When we get off this other contract in a few weeks, I can see if one of us can provide those. The intermittent issues of the CPU pinyin is totally intermittent though.


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## Andrew Aversa (Jan 24, 2020)

Convolution reverb can spike the CPU on some systems, my first thought would be to make sure that is disabled.


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