# High quality control surfaces.



## TakeABow (Dec 2, 2014)

Lets talk high quality control surfaces.

What does everyone use? What have you tried and abandoned? What is on your wish list?

I'm looking at solutions like the new Avid S3 and older SSL Nucleus which seem to be a really slick all-in-one Interface/Control Surface. Then there are products like the Slate Raven or even just using an ipad as the control surface.

Obviously motorized faders are awesome.

Right now I use an Ableton Push and a BCF2000, but I'm looking at expanding a bit and getting something which is really 'nice'.

I didn't really like the feel of the Avid Artist Series stuff.

I'm talking for the studio that can't afford to spend $12K+ USD on a 'proper' consoles here, but for the home or small project studio.

Thoughts, Opinions?


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## Dryden.Chambers (Dec 2, 2014)

I was going to grab a Avid Artist Control recently but decided to go with 2 Ipads 1) w/ Logic Remote 2) w/ Lemur. Pretty cool, but I understand where some may prefer or need physical controllers. I keep mu Push and Maschine for just Ableton control.
If someone was to come out with a good quality fader bank i could use for channel faders and Midi CC control i would consider it. Most of the stuff I see looks cheap (Behringers, Korg, etc.)


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Dec 2, 2014)

It depends what you need. There are many studios which could afford the best but still use the BCF2000 and ipads. Those work fine for general midi control but if you want touch sensitive fades you'll need to look into other options. I think for that, the Artist Control are popular but many people are strongly against them. One option to consider is the JL Cooper control surfaces.


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## charlieclouser (Dec 2, 2014)

If you're using Logic, then anything that emulates (or is) a Mackie Control Universal is supported WITHOUT any third-party drivers, apps, etc. This makes everything work instantly, without hassle. The O.G. Mackie Control is still a safe bet, although it's physically a bit large and clunky and the displays look dated. There are many features with this setup that aren't available on competing systems. I've had many of them over the last decade and they always worked fine. Behringer has a new series called the X-Touch which emulate Mackie Control mode and are physically smaller and cheaper. The biggest one (X-Touch) is a 1:1 replica of a Mackie Control, the middle one (X-Touch Compact) is missing scribble strip displays and a lot of other buttons, and the smallest one (X-Touch Mini) has non-motorized faders. Bear in mind that with the Behringer there is no 8-fader expansion unit, whereas with the Mackie you can chain as many of the expander units as you like. I had two of them running alongside the main unit for 24 faders plus the C4 which gave 32 knobs for plugin editing. The C4 is no longer made but they appear on eBay all the time.

I had the Artist series and did not like them - I swapped them for a synth. The EuCon drivers were flaky at best, although this was a few years ago, and as far as I know these drivers are also required for the S3 and all other Avid/Euphonix surfaces. The S3 does look nice, but I'd want to see it in action with Logic before committing due to my experiences with the EuCon drivers.

The SSL Nucleus is very well built and I believe works with Mackie Protocol - so that's an advantage. 16 faders, audio interface, and mic preamps too - although check to see if the Nucleus requires some SSL Ethernet > MIDI driver in order to emulate Mackie Control with Logic - this might be a hassle. At one point, the SSL Ethernet > MIDI drivers needed for the AWS and Duality caused issues - you couldn't use Ethernet for normal network connections when this driver was in use, so your DAW computer would need to talk to the outside world via WiFi or a second Ethernet port (if it had one, like Mac Pros do). 

Whichever one you get, get it from someplace that will let you return it if it is problematic to use - Sweetwater, Guitar Center, etc.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 2, 2014)

I'm still in love with my Artist Mix, no complaints whatsoever. The S3 looks great - too large a footprint for my space though, and not cheap.


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## rgames (Dec 2, 2014)

I've tried the BCF2000, Mackie Control, tablet devices and the Novation Zero MkII. The Novation is the only one that feels remotely "quality".

The BCF2000 is motorized but not touch sensitive. That's the most absurd combination of features I've ever seen on a device - I bought it assuming it was touch sensitive because it was motorized (must be, right?). I still kept it for a while but eventually got rid of it.

The Novation would be my dream controller if the faders were a bit longer and motorized (and, of course, touch sensitive). I don't use Automap but it looks like it could be cool if you need that sort of functionality.

For me, the tablet-based devices are awful. I can never make the faders do what I want and/or I'm constantly bumping things that I didn't intend to. Plus, they're sluggish. A control surface needs to have fast tactile feedback for me to use it effectively.

rgames


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 2, 2014)

I justwish that one of them allowed you with Logic Pro to switch between region based automation for MIDI ccs and track based automation. I do far more of the former than the latter.


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## Ozymandias (Dec 2, 2014)

3 tablets and an iPhone.

I've abandoned tactile surfaces for the time being. I've grown too used to deciding what controls go where, how big they are, how they behave, what they're called, etc.


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## G.R. Baumann (Dec 2, 2014)

TakeABow,

The nucleus I have my eyes on since a week as well. I consider to go with this desk here:

http://www.argosyconsole.com/html_internal/argosy_studiofurniture_nucleus_d15803.html

If I would be in your shoes, and if I would get nucleus, I'd certainly talk to some of the brlliant shops out there in the countryside. - Used to live around that area myself, Greensboro etc. :D - For the desk alone, I am certain one could make some significant saving if talking to the right shop owner and get it customised.

Good Luck !


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## Eric George (Dec 2, 2014)

Dryden.Chambers @ Tue Dec 02 said:


> I was going to grab a Avid Artist Control recently but decided to go with 2 Ipads 1) w/ Logic Remote 2) w/ Lemur.



Which Lemur template do you use with Logic?


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## milesito (Dec 2, 2014)

I bought a nano control 2 to tie me over in the mean time until some manufacturer figures this product gap out...and also run touch OSC to switch between articulations for spitfire articulations the ember tone products...


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Dec 3, 2014)

If you use an Ipad, TouchOSC is probably the most popular option. If you use a computer touchscreen you can use Emulator Pro or Surface Editor. It is possible to get touch sensitivity in Surface Editor but that mostly depends on the functionality of your DAW. Cubase isn't able to do it. Same with TouchOSC I believe.


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## Lupez (Dec 3, 2014)

I use SSL Nucleus, very solid piece of gear, or should I say Solid? 
If you're on Logic it's the way to go, and don't forget the beautiful Superanalog mic pres it comes with.
The sound card is ok, but I use it only as a back up for my Symphony I/O

For ProTools the new S3 has much better integration.


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## gaz (Dec 3, 2014)

My main controller keyboard is the Novation SLK MkII, which I purchased due to the knobs and sliders. It has done me well but also think that the throw of the sliders is too short (and non motorized). A long ago turned off automap as it was nothing but trouble.

However, I recently purchased the Artist Mx and Control controllers and absolutely LOVE them. I looked into other options, such as the Mackie but I preferred the size and dimansions of these surfaces, which fit nicely in front of my keyboard without eating up too much space (depth-wise).

-Gari


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## Mystic (Dec 3, 2014)

I use the Roland VS-700 that was designed for Sonar but a lot of people are using the controller part of it on other DAWs and seems to work well. It's very similar to the SSL Nucleus in overall style though I like the layout on the 700 better.


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## Dryden.Chambers (Dec 3, 2014)

Hello Eric, I am using the the Logic X Remote App from Apple for Logic X. I just got Lemur so still thinking through how to implement it best (Sptifre/Kontakt CC changes, ultraloop control, etc.). Any suggestions ? Dryden



Eric George @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Dryden.Chambers @ Tue Dec 02 said:
> 
> 
> > I was going to grab a Avid Artist Control recently but decided to go with 2 Ipads 1) w/ Logic Remote 2) w/ Lemur.
> ...


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## Nathanael Iversen (Dec 3, 2014)

I think the SSL Nucleus is the best option less than $10k. It is Mackie-based so it will work with anything you own or move to DAW-wise. The big deal with the Nucleus is the fact that it can do keystroke macros. With a little bit of setup, you could fly around your most used options. It spills plugin parameters across the surface. It is very well made, and well supported.

If I had $5k for a controller, I'd buy one. Big enough to be useful. Small enough to not dominate a desk - keyboard has priority in this shop.

If I had $20-30k, I'd buy the Nuage (Cubase user here). But that is more like an Avid S6 of some variety in cost, complexity, and use case needed to justify owning it.

There are videos on YouTube showing the Nucleus working with all major DAWs so you can see what it looks like operationally.


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## vocalnick (Dec 6, 2014)

I used a Tascam FW1082 (combined interface & control surface) until OSXs 64-bit transition rendered it obsolete. The most recent OS I can use it with is Lion in 32 bit mode.

I've somewhat become used to not having a control surface lately, so I don't want to spend too big on a new one, but I'm eyeing off the X-touch...


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## jamwerks (Dec 7, 2014)

I'm surprised that Yamaha hasn't come out with an Artist-sized little cousin to the Nuage, with proprietary integration with Cubendo. I'm using a Zero SL MKII. Great for both KS & CC controlling.


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