# Questions for Windows DAWs users, coming from Mac



## rickdeckard (Nov 3, 2020)

Hi all,

I have a few questions for those of you who work on Windows systems (regardless of the size of your computers / size of your projects).

I currently have a Mac Pro Trashcan with 64gigs of ram, and it served me well for my needs in the last seven years. Before that I mostly had Macs but I also had a Windows laptop for a few years, which was working well, but never really had the chance to use it for writing music and scoring to picture (and I was on Windows 7 then 8, so a few years ago). My interface at the moment is a Motu M4.

I'm considering trying a Windows desktop in the future when I decide it's time to change, as I'm not tied to Logic in my work. It would be to have a desktop workstation with 128 GB of ram and SSDs at a relatively low price, as the new Mac Pro is not a viable option for me (both for costs and logistically)

I use Reaper, Sibelius, Digital Performer. VSL and Komplete libraries and synths, Omnisphere, Waves and Soundtoys plugins mostly. I'm open to eventually also use Studio One in the future, as the one month demo really impressed me, and even possibly Cubase, which I've used a lot in the past.

Keep in mind I'm OS agnostic: I have nothing against Windows and nothing against macOS, and this is not meant to be an OS war, I just have a few questions for people who actually work on Windows full time. I have had windows pcs in the past but again

Here's a few things I'm used to doing/having that I would not be able to give up should I decide to switch...can you tell me if they're all possible and doable and not source of issues?


1) Be connected to the internet pretty much all the time. I constantly use Dropbox and Wetransfer (literally all the time to exchange project files back and forth) , and need to stream music to study and transcribe (Apple Music, YouTube etc)

2) Keep two music softwares open at the same time? I remember having issues in the past on Windows. Keeping Sibelius open while having Reaper or Quicktime playing back an audio file to transcribe it or orchestrate it.

3) General multitasking similar to what I've already mentioned. Working on a project while sending a wetransfer or downloading files, etc etc.


That's pretty much it.

Thanks for your help!
Best
-r


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 3, 2020)

Internet is not a problem. Just be prepared to "Pause updates for 7 days" a lot. I usually wait 6 months if possible to run updates and verify there are no issues. 

You will need 2 sound cards or sound sources to run multiple programs with sound on a normal basis. This is more because the DAWs tend to hold on to the audio interface. And the interface doesn't normally play two sources at once. You do have to assign the interface in the program also. And you will generally need a second set of speakers or just plug phones into the computer/2nd interface and use the windows general sound. Though it is generally not good enough to play DAW audio. Actually, I should test this. I have a few extra interfaces hanging around. Wouldn't be hard to plug one in and stick some headphones on it. 

General multitasking is actually pretty good in Windows. I can download files, transfer files between two drives and still run my DAW at the same time generally. I don't use a lot of CPU intensive VI's often. Really would be similar to a Mac I would think.


----------



## rickdeckard (Nov 3, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Internet is not a problem. Just be prepared to "Pause updates for 7 days" a lot. I usually wait 6 months if possible to run updates and verify there are no issues.
> 
> You will need 2 sound cards or sound sources to run multiple programs with sound on a normal basis. This is more because the DAWs tend to hold on to the audio interface. And the interface doesn't normally play two sources at once. You do have to assign the interface in the program also. And you will generally need a second set of speakers or just plug phones into the computer/2nd interface and use the windows general sound. Though it is generally not good enough to play DAW audio. Actually, I should test this. I have a few extra interfaces hanging around. Wouldn't be hard to plug one in and stick some headphones on it.
> 
> General multitasking is actually pretty good in Windows. I can download files, transfer files between two drives and still run my DAW at the same time generally. I don't use a lot of CPU intensive VI's often. Really would be similar to a Mac I would think.



Thanks for your reply.

Do you mean I need a second audio interface just to keep Sibelius open while Reaper/DP/whatever is open at the same time ???


----------



## fakemaxwell (Nov 3, 2020)

1. Yep, internet + DAW +whatever works fine here, doing the same thing as you. 

2. Uh no idea what the other guy is talking about, but I have Reaper + VLC + Spotify + Youtube open right now, and I've had Reaper + Pro Tools open before (RME UFX+ if that matters) with no issues.

3. Yeah no problems multitasking, with the improvements in CPUs and SSDs over the years any current computer shouldn't have any issues.


----------



## brek (Nov 3, 2020)

rickdeckard said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> Do you mean I need a second audio interface just to keep Sibelius open while Reaper/DP/whatever is open at the same time ???



If your audio interface is "multi-client" , you can run Sibelius alongside Reaper/DP just fine. Looks like the M4 is.

If not, it gets more complicated. You can use a virtual audio driver like Voicemeeter to work around this, but maybe not the best idea to use it for low-latency "mission critical" situations.


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 3, 2020)

If I open standalone Kontakt and play, I have to close it to play a YouTube video. Sometimes I even have to troubleshoot to release my RME Babyface just so I can use it for something else. Cubase has a "release audio device when not using" that sometimes works when checked. But I don't think ProTools does. This has been my experience. I don't own Reaper. 

Technically, you could use the Windows sound card at the same time, but it generally sucks. It also will need separate speakers or plug in headphones that are plugged directly into the computer. 

Most audio interfaces require an ASIO driver which are not native to Windows, unlike core audio for Macs. I believe it is a mix of the drivers, DAWs, and interfaces that cause the issues. YMMV.


----------



## GNP (Nov 3, 2020)

I'm doing all 3 (not so much the 3rd but I've done it and everything still works) and I have no problems so far. I don't think it's so much the OS, as to what kind of audio interface you have.

I have the RME UCX, and it allows me to multitask different programs without the audio needing to be switched all over the place.


----------



## labornvain (Nov 3, 2020)

I have a pre sonus interface that allows you to have multiple audio applications open at once. I have a focus right interface that does not.


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 3, 2020)

So it is likely my less expensive device may be the problem. I know my Scarlett wouldn't do it. I haven't looked to see if there is something in the software for RME that will allow me to pull sound from multiple sources. I'll check tomorrow.


----------



## CATDAD (Nov 4, 2020)

For what it's worth, my experience in Windows 10 regarding audio across multiple applications with my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 mk3 has been flawless(minus one conflict it had with Discord that was resolved by closing Discord, changing my buffer size in Studio One, then opening Discord again, leading me to believe Discord was trying to use the wrong buffer size compared to what my interface was set to).

As of right now, I just tested having Studio One, Ableton, Youtube, Discord, Windows Groove (default media player), and Spotify all playing audio simultaneously without any issues with what people might consider an entry-level audio interface.

As far as I have seen from others too, most half-decent audio interfaces should be fine to split amongst multiple applications these days as long as their production is somewhat recent. If they didn't, a quick search would likely surface any issues.

General multitasking in Windows has been great, especially with AMD offering more cheap multi-threaded power than ever, and their Ryzen 5000 series just around the corner for higher-end CPU investments, as well as being able to shop around for dirt-cheap RAM compared to a similarly specced Mac.

As always this is my specific experience, and some combination of DAW and other specialized software may act differently. 

@dzilizzi and @labornvain were your Focusrite interfaces older? Because mine is out of their current generation of the past few years and has no issues playing audio from multiple sources. Might be worth revisiting, perhaps it was an issue with a previous version of Windows or ASIO drivers.


----------



## labornvain (Nov 4, 2020)

CATDAD said:


> For what it's worth, my experience in Windows 10 regarding audio across multiple applications with my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 mk3 has been flawless(minus one conflict it had with Discord that was resolved by closing Discord, changing my buffer size in Studio One, then opening Discord again, leading me to believe Discord was trying to use the wrong buffer size compared to what my interface was set to).
> 
> As of right now, I just tested having Studio One, Ableton, Youtube, Discord, Windows Groove (default media player), and Spotify all playing audio simultaneously without any issues with what people might consider an entry-level audio interface.
> 
> ...


 Yes. I had that issue with an old Saffire 24 unit.


----------



## MartinH. (Nov 4, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> You will need 2 sound cards or sound sources to run multiple programs with sound on a normal basis. This is more because the DAWs tend to hold on to the audio interface. And the interface doesn't normally play two sources at once. You do have to assign the interface in the program also. And you will generally need a second set of speakers or just plug phones into the computer/2nd interface and use the windows general sound. Though it is generally not good enough to play DAW audio. Actually, I should test this. I have a few extra interfaces hanging around. Wouldn't be hard to plug one in and stick some headphones on it.





dzilizzi said:


> So it is likely my less expensive device may be the problem. I know my Scarlett wouldn't do it. I haven't looked to see if there is something in the software for RME that will allow me to pull sound from multiple sources. I'll check tomorrow.



I use Reaper with a Focusrite Scarlet Solo on windows 7 and have no problems keeping DAW (using ASIO driver) and youtube etc. playing at the same time. I think that may be a Reaper setting I needed to change. I remember in the past that didn't work, though back then I had a Komplete Audio interface, so maybe that was part of the problem too. 

For discord, skype etc. I use my onboard soundcard as microphone and my focusrite as output device. Mixing those works fine too.


----------



## Mornats (Nov 4, 2020)

I'm in Windows and I have my Focusrite Forte as my audio interface and an Asus Xonar Essence STX as my general sound card. I've got the Asus plugged into a separate set of speakers (actually my Cambridge Audio amp and Tannoy speakers) so I can us that independently of my Focusrite. You can also use the on-board soundcard on the motherboard but they suck. I've got an Asus ROG motherboard with "supreme" sound and it still sucks so look at the Asus Xonar (great card) or some of the other dedicated ones.

I don't have Sibelius so have no idea about putting that through a Xonar. I've used my Xonar to play back music from my DAW but the latency is awful and it can struggle at times (to be fair it's not designed for this) but the sound quality is lovely.

So if you find you can't or don't want to play everything through an audio interface then a dedicated soundcard would help, or even onboard if you're not too bothered by not having audiophile quality.


----------



## jafhouse (Nov 4, 2020)

I made the conversion earlier this year for similar financial reasons around the Mac Pro. I am comfortable in both OS's. Just had to bite the bullet on learning Cubase coming from Logic. I have a Scarlett 2i2 mk3 and run concurrent DAW, youtube, soundcloud and itunes. Works ok for me. However, I would consider a way to EQ your audio if you send it through your monitors. May not be an issue for you but I got frustrated playing via my DAW(+EQ) and then having the external audio sources not really optimized for the monitors. Probably a better way to do this but I am still learning the ins and outs!


----------



## rickdeckard (Nov 4, 2020)

jafhouse said:


> I made the conversion earlier this year for similar financial reasons around the Mac Pro. I am comfortable in both OS's. Just had to bite the bullet on learning Cubase coming from Logic. I have a Scarlett 2i2 mk3 and run concurrent DAW, youtube, soundcloud and itunes. Works ok for me. However, I would consider a way to EQ your audio if you send it through your monitors. May not be an issue for you but I got frustrated playing via my DAW(+EQ) and then having the external audio sources not really optimized for the monitors. Probably a better way to do this but I am still learning the ins and outs!




Thanks for your help. What do you mean by "not optimised for the monitors" ? If I listen to a commercially released record on Apple Music through my audio interface and speakers, it should sound great no?


----------



## rickdeckard (Nov 4, 2020)

jafhouse said:


> I made the conversion earlier this year for similar financial reasons around the Mac Pro. I am comfortable in both OS's. Just had to bite the bullet on learning Cubase coming from Logic. I have a Scarlett 2i2 mk3 and run concurrent DAW, youtube, soundcloud and itunes. Works ok for me. However, I would consider a way to EQ your audio if you send it through your monitors. May not be an issue for you but I got frustrated playing via my DAW(+EQ) and then having the external audio sources not really optimized for the monitors. Probably a better way to do this but I am still learning the ins and outs!


And how are you finding working in Cubase/Windows overall, coming from Mac/Logic?


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 4, 2020)

So I'm kind of curious about how this is working. I will have Cubase or ProTools running, and want to check out how to do something on a YouTube video. Never any sound. My RME is a year old. If there is some setting I'm missing, I would really love to know. 

Sound is fine to play YouTube if the DAW isn't running. Just have not been able to run a DAW and anything else at the same time. I figured it was a setting in the DAW.


----------



## d.healey (Nov 4, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> So I'm kind of curious about how this is working. I will have Cubase or ProTools running, and want to check out how to do something on a YouTube video. Never any sound. My RME is a year old. If there is some setting I'm missing, I would really love to know.
> 
> Sound is fine to play YouTube if the DAW isn't running. Just have not been able to run a DAW and anything else at the same time. I figured it was a setting in the DAW.


Been a while since I used Windows but I seem to recall you had to disable exclusive mode for the audio device. It only worked with some drivers, I think I was using WASAPI (maybe there is something better these days).


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 4, 2020)

d.healey said:


> Been a while since I used Windows but I seem to recall you had to disable exclusive mode for the audio device. It only worked with some drivers, I think I was using WASAPI (maybe there is something better these days).


I will google it. Thanks.


----------



## SlHarder (Nov 4, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> If there is some setting I'm missing, I would really love to know.


Google your audio interface and
How to Disable Exclusive Mode in Windows Sound Preferences 
or something similar.

If enabled then disable for ALL audio sources.

Fwiw


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 4, 2020)

SlHarder said:


> Google your audio interface and
> How to Disable Exclusive Mode in Windows Sound Preferences
> or something similar.
> 
> ...


Thanks. That worked.


----------



## Vonk (Nov 4, 2020)

My advice would be to pay more for Windows Pro. It gives proper remote access ability and you can turn off updates entirely until you are ready for them. The amount of pain caused by compulsory updates in both OS,s can be traumatic.


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 4, 2020)

Vonk said:


> My advice would be to pay more for Windows Pro. It gives proper remote access ability and you can turn off updates entirely until you are ready for them. The amount of pain caused by compulsory updates in both OS,s can be traumatic.


Pro does not turn off the updates completely anymore. You can only delay them. I really miss being able to pick and choose updates. I want security updates. I don't want feature updates and bug fixes until someone else (a lot of someone elses) have tested it out. I can uninstall after they install, but there is no choice I've found before you install.


----------



## fakemaxwell (Nov 4, 2020)

My experience with Windows Home updates recently has been that you can put them off for as long as you want now. I think they realized the backlash they got from the initial updates was pretty rough and made it so they won't do any major updates without the user agreeing.


----------



## rickdeckard (Nov 4, 2020)

Mmm...this sounds like a potential added issue. And I was familiar with the update policy but was hoping there was some sort of workaround right now. I have never in my life updated my os before at least 10/12 months after the new one was released.

I forgot to ask another important thing for me which I would find hard to live without: time machine. Is there a windows equivalent for that?

Thanks again for the helpful replies!


----------



## Vonk (Nov 4, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Pro does not turn off the updates completely anymore.


I have three Windows machines, only one of which is kept updated (and used for internet work.) I use WUB for my DAW machines to prevent updates - I'm still on 1803 on these. I'll update them at a time of my choosing, not Microsoft's.


----------



## CATDAD (Nov 4, 2020)

For Windows 10 Home you can delay updates by up to a week at a time and can do so indefinitely. That's a bit annoying to do if you're planning on updating only 1-2 times a year. As far as I know (I have Home, not Pro), Windows 10 Pro can still delay updates by one full year with some customization as to what kind of updates, but it's buried somewhere in group policy settings now.

I haven't done this myself but if anyone is looking to do this with Windows 10 Pro they can run:
C:\Windows\System32\gpedit.msc
Local Computer Policy > Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update > Windows Update for Business and find it there.

As for Time Machine, it is great at what it does. Windows has native recovery and backup options, though I can't really comment on them because I haven't used them since Windows XP and it sounds like they're better than that garbage now. I know there are a ton of 3rd party options too if you're looking for a very specific configuration of backups.


----------



## Mornats (Nov 4, 2020)

CATDAD said:


> As for Time Machine, it is great at what it does. Windows has native recovery and backup options, though I can't really comment on them because I haven't used them since Windows XP and it sounds like they're better than that garbage now. I know there are a ton of 3rd party options too if you're looking for a very specific configuration of backups.



I used that on Win 10 home. I set up file history to back up to a NAS drive and it worked fine. I even managed to recover an overwritten Reaper project file where I'd deleted everything and accidentally hit save and not save as. I t had a recent back up right there and saved me. Not too different to Time Machine if I remember. I've not had my NAS plugged in since I moved home last year (I know, I really should) so can't have a mosey around and check it out some more.


----------



## jafhouse (Nov 5, 2020)

rickdeckard said:


> Thanks for your help. What do you mean by "not optimised for the monitors" ? If I listen to a commercially released record on Apple Music through my audio interface and speakers, it should sound great no?


That very well could be true. It's personal preference. For myself, my studio monitors sound better with a little EQ tweaking for playback of general pre-mastered audio. Depends on the recording. I might be better off having a seperate set of stereo speakers that are better suited for this kind of audio play back. My studio monitors seem better suited for what I do in my DAW.


----------



## steveo42 (Nov 6, 2020)

My advice is to make sure to buy Windows Professional.. As for automatic updates, here are the preferred methods: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mus...ported-ways-control-updates-windows-10-a.html


----------

