# Getting rid of ringing on a solo piano track?



## Aakaash Rao (Jul 14, 2013)

I've recently completed a solo piano sketch using the Imperfect Samples Fazioli. I'm noticing an odd, grating "ringing" to the piece (this is an issue I've faced a bit in the past when working with solo piano, but it's especially irritating in this piece). I've been trying to EQ it out, but so far have had no luck at all. I should mention, though, that I'm a complete beginner to mixing, EQ, etc., so I'm most likely doing something completely wrong. 8) It'd be great if anyone could provide some advice on properly mixing the piece. The links below are to two versions of the piece: one with reverb (QL Spaces NY Piano Hall) and one without. 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqakjudu5hwjo ... 0theme.wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pvzocxsprj7x3 ... reverb.wav
Thanks in advance!


----------



## klawire (Jul 14, 2013)

The ringing seems to happen mostly in the 200Hz to 700Hz range. You could try a bell shaped EQ at 400Hz or 500Hz, Q 0,63, -7dB or something like that. Also, try adjusting the reverb filters in Spaces. I highly recommend getting an EQ plugin which allows you to easily listen to a limited frequency range, like the EQ in Ozone 5. That should help with pinpointing problematic frequencies.

Great piece by the way!


----------



## re-peat (Jul 15, 2013)

Aakaash,

The IS Fazioli, an occasionally nice sounding but on the whole rather poorly recorded piano, is a fiendishly difficult instrument to EQ effectively, because its 'frequency energy'-distribution varies hugely depending on the dynamics. (A problem which all IS pianos share.) 
At lower dynamics, there’s all this boomy low-mid and bass you need to deal with, and at high velocities, plenty of that overbearing low foundation disappears and you’re looking at a somewhat thin, sometimes even harsh sounding instrument instead.
Furthermore, there are indeed many difficulties and inconsistencies in the mid-range, such as sudden peaks and ringing, which complicate matters even further.
It’s the extreme close-miking, I suppose, which, while responsible for the sometimes nice, warm and intimate timbre, is the main reason for all these problems.

All this to say that there is not one EQ-curve that can deal with all these problems in one go. You either need to automate the EQ-settings (so that the shape of the curve changes according to the dominant dynamic level of a given passage), or use a dynamic EQ which allows you to set tresholds in specific frequency areas which, when reached, will trigger the EQ into processing that specific area. Or use both.

I’ve had a quick a go at it, using automated settings, with DMG Audio’s Equilibrium. The results are far from perfect ― after all, this is very much imperfect samplematerial ― and there’s still many a problematic moment, but I think I managed to get rid of quite a bit of the low-mid and bass boomyness as well as some of the mid-range ringing.
I did exaggerate the settings a bit though, mainly for illustrative purposes, so at times the instrument may now sound a bit thinner and emptier than you’d like.

I’ve also added a bit of Exponential Audio Phoenix-reverb to your no-reverb recording, to give the dry piano some space.

Here’s *a link to a video* that allows you to see how the EQ-curve changes depending on the dynamics of the music.

_


----------



## Beat Kaufmann (Jul 15, 2013)

Hi
If you need to treat a piano with such a lot of EQ then it unfortunately loses its brilliance and character. In the end it is so far away from a piano, that you better use a good midi-sound piano...

There are other Libraries which has such ringings - for example Steinberg's Grand3, which I own. But it is unusable in the end because of these ringings as well.
So I looked for Piano-Libraries without this issue. 
Today I'm very happy with Galaxy Vintage D... 
http://www.musik-produktion-createc.ch/orchester/playalong/index.php Click on "PlayAlong nur mit Piano?" (3 different music styles examples, with the default settings). And the best: It's not a very expensive Library

_Beat_


----------



## Aakaash Rao (Jul 15, 2013)

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the help. This community is the best  

I have tried EQing within that specific range. As Re-Peat said, the problem is that it tends to kill the intimacy of the IS piano - and the intimacy is the main reason that I chose to use the IS piano above one of the EWQL Pianos. I suppose you have to make sacrifices. :( 

The audio in that video sounds great, Re-Peat- thanks so much for your help. I did notice a little bit more "thinness" in the sound, and the high velocity notes are a little more harsh than I would have hoped, but overall it's a huge improvement. Equilbrium sounds/looks great, though unfortunately it's a bit out of my price range at the moment. Do you have any suggestions for less expensive EQs that would do the kind of automatic adjustment that Equilbrium does? 

The audio file I uploaded earlier was using the player mics. Upon suggestion from a friend of mine, I tried doing it using the close mics only. The ringing sound is definitely much improved, but unfortunately it leads to a whole slew of other issues - the sound is too brittle and harsh, and the highs just sound piercing. 

Thanks for your advice, Beat. While I've played around a bit with the Galaxy and I do generally like its sound, it lacks a bit of the subtlety of EWQL, IMHO. As I haven't experienced issues with ringing with EWQL, I think I'll stick with it for the time being and invest in a solid EQ rather than a new instrument. 

Once again, thanks to all of you for your help!


----------



## re-peat (Jul 15, 2013)

Aakaash Rao @ Mon Jul 15 said:


> (...) I did notice a little bit more "thinness" in the sound, and the high velocity notes are a little more harsh than I would have hoped (...)


I very much agree on both points, but like I said, the main objective was to remove some of the excessive, booming weight from the sound and tame the mid-range ringing as much as possible. I’m quite aware that I ruined some of the Fazioli’s warm embrace in the process and that I also left those high notes sounding a little bit unpleasant.

If it were my recording, I would actually load up more than one instance of the Fazioli, give each its own EQ, and then distribute the notes among these instances depending on the sort of EQ’ing they need.
I do that a lot with sample-based pianos, provided it doesn't mess too much with the sympathetic resonances (or other script-related characteristics of the sound) of course. Sampled pianos all have some problem somewhere which, in my experience, can often be best addressed by isolating the problem in its own instance. (I sometimes even use an additional instance of a piano just for one single note, if it happens to sound not quite the way I want it to sound.)
Anyway, by using several Fazioli instances, each with its dedicated EQ, you can have very specific EQ’ing for problems in the low dynamics, the high dynamics, the fickle mid-range and, system resources permitting ― which might be a problem, because the full Fazioli is quite resource-hungry ―, maybe even the harsh upper range of the instrument.
You'll have to test this first of course: if working with several instances causes more problems than it solves, it's obviously not the recommended technique for this particular piece. But if your computer can handle, say, three Fazioli-instances, I would definitely check out the possibilities.

I also agree with what you say about the Galaxy. Impressive sounding emulation for a lot of repertoire, certainly, but not exactly a wise choice for a piece like this.

As for Equilibrium alternatives: maybe have a look at *ApulSoft’s apQualizr*, only $49, but a very fine tool and certainly capable of everything I threw at the Fazioli with the Equilibrium. 
Or, if you can spend a bit more: Equilibrium’s own predecessor: *EQuality*. 
(Actually, depending on your DAW, it might very well be that you don’t need to spend even a single cent. Most serious DAW’s these days, have entirely adequate EQ-solutions built in. I’m a Logic user and I’m pretty confident that one could tackle most, if not all, of the Fazioli’s most troublesome imperfections very effectively with Logic’s own ChannelEQ.)

_


----------



## Aakaash Rao (Jul 16, 2013)

Thanks again for your advice, Re-peat. I actually had never thought of loading separate tracks for separate ranges of the instrument; I'll certainly try that out and see how that works. You're right that it'll likely be a strain on my computer resources (my computer is getting a bit old) but perhaps I can experiment with mixing each track to audio before EQing to save system resources?

My DAW is Cubase Artist 7. I haven't looked too much into the built-in EQ, but as far as I know it doesn't have an automatic function like Equilbrium and the other tools you mentioned. I definitely will check out apQualizr and EQuality.

Thanks again for your help!


----------

