# Stop the press...Anna Nicole is Dead



## Brian Ralston (Feb 8, 2007)

Stop the presses...Anna Nicole Smith has died. No one saw this coming. :roll: 

Such a tragic life. Seriously.

U.S. Democrats can click here for the story

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,250974,00.html (U.S. Republicans can click here for the story)

Ok...go back to your composing...


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## tgfoo (Feb 8, 2007)

Brian Ralston @ Thu Feb 08 said:


> U.S. Democrats can click here for the story
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,250974,00.html (U.S. Republicans can click here for the story)



For whatever reason, this just cracked me up.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 8, 2007)

It's a very sad story, though. And she has a baby daughter with no mother now.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 8, 2007)

By the way, people who want fair to middling news coverage can click on the Democrat link. Devil worshippers can click on the other one. 

(Rapert Murder is Satan.)


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## synergy543 (Feb 8, 2007)

Another reason not to click the Repulican button is you'll read that her body guard gave her resuscitation for an hour long....that's just wrong! Anybody would die from that alone.

The demo button spares you of this rude tidbit of necrophiliac info. :???:


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## Hermitage59 (Feb 9, 2007)

After reading these i'm surprised anyone could ever consider being or voting republican.

At least the democrats are......human.


From a country that in the interest of equality, forged the phrase:

'Thinking decorates a woman.'





Alex.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Feb 9, 2007)

"I am not a prophet, and I cannot tell you before the autopsy what I am going to find," he said."

Pretty important disclaimer. :roll:


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## Dave Connor (Feb 9, 2007)

Actually the extreme left in this country is unabashedly Fascist: think their way or you're a helpless moron that should be - exterminated? You could say the same of the extreme right but no one is offended by that these days. Call the left into question and you will be labeled and targeted for all kinds of abuse and so on. History repeats itself in a hurry doesn't it.

In regards to Miss Smith, a tragic life indeed. The press in this country is more outrageous than she, such has been the frenzy around her.


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## JonFairhurst (Feb 9, 2007)

Dave Connor @ Fri Feb 09 said:


> The press in this country is more outrageous than she, such has been the frenzy around her.


No doubt! This morning's CNN Headline news led with the story, ended with the story, came back to the story in the middle - a couple of times, talked about her in the other stories - and had her story on the ticker at the bottom of the screen.

My wife told me that in some crazy test, chimps would rather look at pictures of alpha chimps than take food. Apparently, photos of dead, scandalous alpha chimps trump everything...


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## Patrick de Caumette (Feb 9, 2007)

Dave Connor @ Fri Feb 09 said:


> Actually the extreme left in this country is unabashedly Fascist: think their way or you're a helpless moron that should be - exterminated? You could say the same of the extreme right but no one is offended by that these days. Call the left into question and you will be labeled and targeted for all kinds of abuse and so on. History repeats itself in a hurry doesn't it.



That may be, but since only the extreme right has managed to rule this country and compromize its future, for now I'll keep my focussed resentment on the perpetrators... (perpetual traitors?)


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 10, 2007)

Hey Outrageous Dave, exactly what extreme left are you talking about? I mean who specifically? What are you saying - that there's an equally large, organized group of lunatics with ideas just as insane as the ones we've seen implemented over the past few years? That the poor extreme right is being misunderstood by hordes of angry left wing lunatics who advocate exterminating those who disagree with them?

Explain yourself, you heathen!

And why would you dain to mention that in a discussion about how Faux News is evil propaganda masquerading as news? Oh wait - it was about Anna Nichole Smith...


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## Ed (Feb 10, 2007)

Dave Connor @ Fri Feb 09 said:


> Actually the extreme left in this country is unabashedly Fascist: think their way or you're a helpless moron that should be - exterminated? You could say the same of the extreme right but no one is offended by that these days. Call the left into question and you will be labeled and targeted for all kinds of abuse and so on. History repeats itself in a hurry doesn't it..



Like Nick, I would be interested in who you are referring to?


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## Dave Connor (Feb 10, 2007)

My inclusion of the extreme left with the extreme right as Fascist and dictatorial was not an endorsement of the current administration nor an indictment of any single group. Vocal elements of the extreme left are found in organizations such as the ACLU, Hollywood crowd, media and even the US goverment. The extreme right has elements in certain religious organizations, different media outlets and other various organizations, as well as the US goverment.


My point is that fascism from _any_ quarter is not tolerable. In the Hollywood community (in which I work) it is a known fact that many people who are not on board with leftest views keep very quiet about it for fear of being ostracized and losing work. This is akin to being shunned due to skin color. The fact that it's vogue is even more unnacceptable: it was once vogue to be a Nazi in certain parts of the world.

It's curious to me why pointing out something about the extreme left causes a kneejerk _you must be way to the right_ response. It's just an observation. My thinking will remain free and no thought policing will have any effect.

and nick, this can be vigorously debated over the salad of your choice (since it's your time to buy.) :wink:


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## blue (Feb 10, 2007)

Well said, Dave. I agree this kind of nonsense comes from both sides.

Though I would add that the use of the term fascism in these cases also represents a rather cheap and easy way of demonizing someone with whom you disagree. Fascism is a more specific political ideology than that which is espoused by most of the mainstream extremist groups in this country. These groups may be exclusionary and bullheaded, but they're not fascists.

I understand the word has taken on a more literary meaning since the days of Mussolini, Franco and Hitler. But its use more often than not indicates a type of extremism in thought similar to the one its utterers denounce.


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## Dave Connor (Feb 10, 2007)

blue,
I refer to fascism in the scientific sense of the word as when someone is in fact demonized or punished for not being in lockstep with an ideology. A specific ideology or varient may be one of many different forms of fascism (I understand the term's birth with Mussolini) but I refer to the general principle.

I use the term exactly as you stated it may be abused. That if any group demonizes others for not thinking exactly as they do then they invite the term. It wouldn't be cheap or fascist in anyway to identify this mode of behavior anywhere, anytime, but simply free speech.


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## JonFairhurst (Feb 10, 2007)

I agree with blue.

Fascism is the support of a totalitarian state, led by a single dictator (the decider?) that engages in militarism and combines the power of government and industry in search of more power, and possibly empire. Fascism is also nationalist and intolerant of those who deviate from a social and physical ideal. Fascists want to concentrate power in the hands of the privileged, and strip it from the common person.

Communism has its roots in an economic model in which all benefit equally. Industry is subsumed by the state - and there are no longer industrialists who profit. In the ideal it shares power equally. However, in practice we get Stalinism or Maoism, which is (again) a totalitarian state run by a dictator. Rather than industrialists we get a hierarchy of state officials. To maintain this concentration of power, the state is no more tolerant of freedom than is fascism - and often less so.

The common point is that any extreme view or extreme form of government that crushes the human spirit requires an authoritarian government to implement their policies.

Extreme social-economic conservatives tend towards fascism, though they rarely see it that way. They see no problem in criminalizing social behaviors, while letting business do as it pleases. (The term "liberal" can go both ways on economic policies. I'm talking Laissez Faire here.

Social liberals are repulsed by authoritarianism. However, moderate economic liberals (not Laissez Faire) want government to put rules into place (such as anti-trust laws) that restrict industry from gaining excessive power. Take this economic position to the extreme, and government runs industry, requiring authoritarian power and ending up as Stalinism.

The main thing that separates the US from fascism is our Constitution. We do not have a dictatorship. However, there are those in the current administration who promote the "Unitary Executive Theory", which states that since the Administration implements the laws, it is all powerful. The other branches of government are merely "advisory". 

It's pretty clear to me that anybody who advocates a dictatorship in the US, given our industrial model and the size of our military, is a fascist.

Communism simply isn't openly supported in the US today. Even on Air America, you won't hear anybody advocating that General Motors should be nationalized. 

You do hear people calling for national medical insurance though. But that would make the US no more communist than Great Britain or Switzerland.

It's different in Venezuela today though. Chavez has recently gained dictatorial power for the next 18 months. He has started nationalizing certain industries. Some would say that he is taking extreme measures because the wealth of the country is currently concentrated in so few hands. Others see him as a Communist, pure and simple. Time will tell if he is simply looking for a new balance point, or if he too will build a wall and strip all freedoms to achieve and maintain his goals.

Me? I like freedom, and I don't trust anybody - in government or business - who seeks ever more concentrated power.


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## Dave Connor (Feb 10, 2007)

Here is the way in which I use the term:

...if the definition is restricted to the original Italian Fascism, then "fascism" has little significance outside of Italian politics. Most scholars prefer to use the word "fascism" in a more general sense, to refer to an ideology (or group of ideologies)...


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## JonFairhurst (Feb 10, 2007)

Hi Dave,

Rather than start from the term "fascism", which is pejorative and claimed by no significant political entity today, let's start with a set of political traits, and see what term fits.

* Nationalist - all acts by the state are justified. All acts against it unjustified.
* Strong police force with power to regulate the populace - including social behaviors.
* Strong support of industry - and of favored industrialists
* Strong military that engages in external wars to expand the power of the state or favored industries.
* Ruled by a single leader with dictatorial power.
* Against individualism - especially any social deviance from the perceived norm or ideal.

Personally, I believe that the above characteristics are common to Italian Fascism, as practiced by Mussolini, who claims to be the inventor of fascism. I believe that these characteristics are also goals of the extreme right wing in the US today.

If there is a single word that encompasses these political goals, aside from fascism, I'd like to know it. 

Maybe we need a new term: "powerism"


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## Hans Adamson (Feb 10, 2007)

One interesting thing discussing the "extreme left" of the US is that it corresponds to the centrists of Europe... Beam me up now. ~o)


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## Dave Connor (Feb 10, 2007)

Hans Adamson @ Sat Feb 10 said:


> One interesting thing discussing the "extreme left" of the US is that it corresponds to the centrists of Europe..



Always nice to see a hearty endorsement of the US military invasion of Europe that preserved their right to whatever views.

Jon, I can hardly disagree with your post and definitions found within, nor there implication. The recent elections sent a clear message that the people want to see democracy rule the day. My point was against any undemocratic tenets holding sway from any camp right or left.


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## JonFairhurst (Feb 10, 2007)

Dave Connor @ Sat Feb 10 said:


> My point was against any undemocratic tenets holding sway from any camp right or left.


That's absolutely valid. Any system - left or right - that tries to force everybody into a narrow, inhumane reality can only sustain itself with force.

To me the beauty of democracy is that it is a feedback system. Sure, it's slow, inefficient and sometimes completely broken, but eventually the populace "gets it" and adjusts.

And hopefully the feedback system will keep things from going over either the left or right cliff!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 10, 2007)

Not that Hans needs me to explain him, but his point is that America is way farther to the right than Europe. The problem is with the definition of left and right, which no longer has much to do with communism vs. military dictatorship.

In any case, I'll take the biggest nut in the ACLU over an extremist on the other side. As we'll discuss over salad, they're not out to kill people, they just waste their resources - and my contributions - on things like the KKK's or American Nazi Party's right to demonstrate. Even though technically I agree they have a constitutional right to demonstrate, nobody would honestly be bothered if they all broke their own backs trying to go screw themselves; since the ACLU doesn't have the resources to defend every civil liberty issue, why not pick cases that are more deserving.

That's just being a misguided slave to a well-meaning ideology. Right wing lunatics start pre-emptive wars and kill people. Big difference.

See? All it takes is Brian posting a link to Faux News and off we go.


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## Dave Connor (Feb 10, 2007)

I don't think the right wing has a monopoly on starting wars and killing people or using bogus reasons to start the fight. It's age old and all to recent here in the US. My point about the left is labeling someone a nut if they aren't lock step with their ideology.

My comment about the US invading militarily in Europe was to demonstate that fighting wars and killing people can be principally exactly right and not some sort of ugly Americanism. The idea being to stop the wholesale slaughter of entire peoples or ethnic groups. This principle can be perverted (as many would argue in Iraq today) but someone who agrees with the use of force when needed should not be labeled right wing but seen as a historically aware person with an aversion to death camps and ovens.

yes a little shove and we start rollng along...


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## Hans Adamson (Feb 10, 2007)

I didn't mean to get involved in argumenting one thing or the other... Don't know what Dave was talking about. My comment was more directed towards the Europeans on the board. If you talk about "extreme left" in Europe, then you are talking about factions to the left of communism. In the US I have a feeling "extreme left" some time is used for democrats fighting for a national health insurance and similar.


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## david robinson (Feb 11, 2007)

hi, we're down the path of "benign dictatorship in Australia, also.

over the last 20yrs, our music industry has all but gone.

our home grown recording co's gobbled up by multinationals.

our live venues replaced by clubs with poker machines.

i always thought democracies were the people, not the handful of polly's in cabinet.

nobody i talk to here likes what's going on, but we can't seem to get rid of these blokes.

this country's people really aren't the violent type, but that might change if the government doesn't soon.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Feb 11, 2007)

david robinson @ 11/2/2007 said:


> ...nobody i talk to here likes what's going on, but we can't seem to get rid of these blokes..



Yeah, this John Howard's pretty much another Bush poodle (like my country's Stephen Harper?!):


> "You either rat on the ally or you stay with the ally," he said. "If it's all right for us to go, it's all right for the Americans and the British to go, and if everybody goes, Iraq will descend into total civil war and there'll be a lot of bloodshed."



As opposed to now, of course, where there's only what-really-looks-like civil war and just-under-a-lot of bloodshed... :roll: 

The point is not just to get out, but to engage, bribe, do whatever it takes to get Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, et all to get together to discuss and agree on measures to get Al Queda out of Iraq and partition what should never have been a country to begin with in ways that will allow each group to still have the resources to be autonomous.

Oh, and where, damn, where are the peaceful protests by arabs in other countries? That, I just can't explain. Sure, I know you can get arrested in many countries for doing such a thing, but, for eg, would Egyptian/Algerian/Tunisian/Jordanian/Syrian/Lebanese, etc authorities really arrest 5,000 people if 50,000 took the streets for a peaceful demonstration against arabs killing one another in such great numbers in Iraq?

Huh... wait... Anna-Nicole Smith is DEAD???? ~o)


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## david robinson (Feb 11, 2007)

ned, my beloved Australia has pretty much got copykat syndrome nowadays.
pity, it used to be great here.
who is Anna Nicole Smith anyway? composer or something?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Feb 11, 2007)

david robinson @ 11/2/2007 said:


> ... who is Anna Nicole Smith anyway? composer or something?



Yes. She wrote many pieces, including the Double-D Concerto, Fake Blond Overture, and the Variations on the Hungarian Lap Dance


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 11, 2007)

> Vocal elements of the extreme left are found in organizations such as the ACLU, Hollywood crowd, media and even the US goverment.



Wait a minute - Hollywood crowd?

People like Susan Sarandon?

hahahahaha

~o) ~o) ~o) :lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

And of course you'd have to include Brian. He's in the Hollywood crowd.

:twisted:


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