# Reason 12 Price Increase coming soon!



## Leslie Fuller (Sep 16, 2021)

Though I’m no longer using Reason as a DAW (recently sold my license), I still follow what is going on in that space with interest, having been with Reason since v2.5.

Here’s an update on Reason Studios blog posted yesterday, with a large price increase:









Reason 12: New pricing coming on October 1 - Reason Studios


We want to make sure you have sufficient time to buy or upgrade to Reason 12 before the new prices come in effect 10/1/2021, so anybody on the fence about when to purchase Reason 12 - now is the time.




www.reasonstudios.com


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## Crossroads (Sep 17, 2021)

I'm a huge Reason fan but this rubs me completely the wrong way especially since the last update was nowhere near finished.

I like the software, but not the company direction for the past year. I won't be upgrading this time around.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 17, 2021)

Maybe that list with developments that happened over the past decades they use, should also include the price development of other DAWs and the feature list of those compared to Reason’s stagnation - at least on that particular front.

I’d very much like them to ditch the DAW and just focus on being a modular playground.


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## kitekrazy (Sep 17, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Maybe that list with developments that happened over the past decades they use, should also include the price development of other DAWs and the feature list of those compared to Reason’s stagnation - at least on that particular front.
> 
> *I’d very much like them to ditch the DAW and just focus on being a modular playground.*


 They sort of do that. They like to crank out proprietary NFR instruments and not work on the DAW. I have to wonder if they will exist 10 years from now. This kind of move smells desperation and run by people at the very top clueless about how competitive the industry is.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 17, 2021)

kitekrazy said:


> They sort of do that.


They do in practice, yes


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## sostenuto (Sep 17, 2021)

A bit saddened. Never 'fan', but have latest 11 Lite Rack and interested in Friktion for long time.
Backbone demo is cool, just beyond drum /perc chops to use effectively.
Guess it's time to get off the fence ? 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Leslie Fuller (Sep 17, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> A bit saddened. Never 'fan', but have latest 11 Lite Rack and interested in Friktion for long time.
> Backbone demo is cool, just beyond drum /perc chops to use effectively.
> Guess it's time to get off the fence ? 🤷🏻‍♂️


I’m saddened too! I was a beta tester for Reason 11, and had high hopes with the Rack, that the DAW would move forward and improve. Like you, I loved Friktion, but I decided after trialling Reason+, that it was no longer what I wanted and it didn’t give me enough “value” to warrant paying £20 per month!


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## kitekrazy (Sep 17, 2021)

So who is going to cave in to the price increase pressure? BTW they rarely ever have a sale on DAW upgrades but often RE's. I wouldn't bank on a BF sale.


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## Nimrod7 (Sep 17, 2021)

So, reason comes on the top of the food chain, as one of the most expensive DAW.
I am not sure if it deserves to be there, not sure at all.

Live 11 Suite: $599
Pro Tools: $559
Cubase 11: $549
Reason 12: $499
Studio One: $399
Bitwig Studio: $399
Reaper: $225
FL Studio:$199
Logic: $199


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## easyrider (Sep 17, 2021)

Why use the word “OH” ?


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## easyrider (Sep 17, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> So, reason comes on the top of the food chain, as one of the most expensive DAW.
> I am not sure if it deserves to be there, not sure at all.
> 
> Live 11 Suite: $599
> ...



It’s clearly to encourage SUB use….wrong strategy though you only have to see what happened to Izotope !


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## EpicMusicGuy (Sep 17, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> So, reason comes on the top of the food chain, as one of the most expensive DAW.
> I am not sure if it deserves to be there, not sure at all.
> 
> Live 11 Suite: $599
> ...



FL Studio Producer Edition (All features unlocked) is 199$


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## easyrider (Sep 17, 2021)

I upgraded $114 JRR shop…£82


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## Nimrod7 (Sep 17, 2021)

EpicMusicGuy said:


> FL Studio Producer Edition (All features unlocked) is 199$


thanks fixed! :D


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## Nimrod7 (Sep 17, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I upgraded $114 JRR shop…£82


Thats a good price! 
122.99 on Audio Deluxe + $6.14 bucks for next order. Guess same thing.


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## easyrider (Sep 17, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> Thats a good price!
> 122.99 on Audio Deluxe + $6.14 bucks for next order. Guess same thing.


JRR for me...Active on the forums


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## rrichard63 (Sep 17, 2021)

kitekrazy said:


> BTW they rarely ever have a sale on DAW upgrades


That's not been my experience. I upgraded from V8 to V9, V9 to V10, and V10 to V11 Suite, all on sale. You do have to be willing to wait.


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## easyrider (Sep 17, 2021)

Reason 12 is buggy as feck....

This is the so called HD Transport...







Having the devices in HD changes things completely though...






Apparently they are working on the transport fix (Reason Forums info)....Looks like crap....


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## easyrider (Sep 17, 2021)

Only the rack in R12 is HD....









Getting lost in the fun of serious music making Ð a roadmap for Reason - Reason Studios


To be just a little bit overly dramatic, this blog post is the start of a new chapter for us where we will be more transparent towards the community about what we are working on.




www.reasonstudios.com





_Under development _


*Smart browser* – October
In Reason 12 we delivered a new fresh and fast browsing experience. In October we plan to ship an update that organizes all your content in a better way and makes finding patches and sounds much easier 
*Hi-res rest of Reason* – October
For Reason 12 the focus was to make the rack hi-res but in October we will ship an update that updates the remaining parts of the sequencer and UI to hi-res too. 
*More styles for Combinator 2.0* - November
Most of us spend too much time choosing the right button or knob to make our Combinators really pop. They make the Combinator so much more fun, and we want to have an even broader selection. And my personal testing shows that good looking Combinators sound better too.. 
*M1 support* – December
Reason will be updated to run natively on the Apple M1 processor. 
*VST3 support* –January
Yes, you read that right! VST3 support is coming to Reason. This is a big project, but we are working to deliver this as soon as possible which is why it’ll take a bit longer than other stuff on the roadmap.


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## kitekrazy (Sep 17, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> That's not been my experience. I upgraded from V8 to V9, V9 to V10, and V10 to V11 Suite, all on sale. You do have to be willing to wait.


Same here from vendors. Don't hold our breath for a BF sale.


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## kitekrazy (Sep 17, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> So, reason comes on the top of the food chain, as one of the most expensive DAW.
> I am not sure if it deserves to be there, not sure at all.
> 
> Live 11 Suite: $599
> ...



@ $199 it would be the 2nd most expensive upgrade for me. Live Suite is around $249.


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## rnb_2 (Sep 22, 2021)

I missed this last week - glad a search for another thread brought it up, since I'm pondering the Reason 12 upgrade now. I just learned about Reward Points a few days ago, and it turns out that buying the upgrade to 12 will put me in line for two $50 reward credits, which I can then use on the two REs that I don't already have and weren't included in the 11 Suite. This will bring my total outlay for Reason 12 + *all* Reason Studios REs to somewhere around $600 (I got a pretty fantastic deal via Best Service last December on the 11 Suite).


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## easyrider (Sep 22, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> I missed this last week - glad a search for another thread brought it up, since I'm pondering the Reason 12 upgrade now. I just learned about Reward Points a few days ago, and it turns out that buying the upgrade to 12 will put me in line for two $50 reward credits, which I can then use on the two REs that I don't already have and weren't included in the 11 Suite. This will bring my total outlay for Reason 12 + *all* Reason Studios REs to somewhere around $600 (I got a pretty fantastic deal via Best Service last December on the 11 Suite).


Get it done 👍


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## hoxclab (Sep 28, 2021)

They are very good at repelling customers it seems.


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## machinesworking (Sep 28, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> So, reason comes on the top of the food chain, as one of the most expensive DAW.
> I am not sure if it deserves to be there, not sure at all.
> 
> Live 11 Suite: $599
> ...



Live 11 Suite is $749, Reason 12 is $399, Pro Tools is $599. Sweetwater prices today.


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## machinesworking (Sep 28, 2021)

I bought the upgrade. I don't get the hate? I upgraded for $99 on sale, to Reason 10 with the upgrade to 11 for free from Reason 2.5. You can jump on and off the Reason train anytime you want to as long as they keep the same policy. In December if they're on schedule Reason will be running native on an M1 Mac here, keeping me satisfied enough if NI, IK, Arturia, etc. etc. isn't there yet.


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## rrichard63 (Sep 29, 2021)

machinesworking said:


> Live 11 Suite is $749, Reason 12 is $399, Pro Tools is $599. Sweetwater prices today.


Reason 12 is $399 today (Wednesday), but will be $499 beginning Friday.


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## kitekrazy (Sep 29, 2021)

machinesworking said:


> I bought the upgrade. I don't get the hate? I upgraded for $99 on sale, to Reason 10 with the upgrade to 11 for free from Reason 2.5. You can jump on and off the Reason train anytime you want to as long as they keep the same policy. In December if they're on schedule Reason will be running native on an M1 Mac here, keeping me satisfied enough if NI, IK, Arturia, etc. etc. isn't there yet.


Price increase of $70 for an upgrade can buy a whole lotta hate unless you are a fanboy.


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## kitekrazy (Sep 29, 2021)

hoxclab said:


> They are very good at repelling customers it seems.


Most likely. Reason 10 made it to #4 on the Music Radar poll. Reason 12 might not make the top 20.


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## machinesworking (Sep 29, 2021)

kitekrazy said:


> Price increase of $70 for an upgrade can buy a whole lotta hate unless you are a fanboy.


Not a fanboy, thanks for the name calling, cool internet outcome is jumping to conclusions like that. I bought Reason when it came out, I left it at v2.5. Recently upgraded to 11, then 12. that's hardly fanboy level by any measure. It was 100-129 20 years ago to upgrade. Raising prices after 20 years is not what I would call crazy. The fact that the industry has in general has come down in price a bit is the only thing that makes it make any sense at all to me. 

I 100% get being upset about the pace of upgrades, but at a basic level from the outside it's a solid package of devices, Logic is the only comparison, and we all know why Logic is cheap.


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 30, 2021)

easyrider said:


> It’s clearly to encourage SUB use….wrong strategy though you only have to see what happened to Izotope !


What has happened to Izotope ? Honest question - as soon as they said that only subscribers will get additional features I lost any interest in upgrading their products....particularly since the version of RX does everything I need already.


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## easyrider (Sep 30, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> What has happened to Izotope ? Honest question - as soon as they said that only subscribers will get additional features I lost any interest in upgrading their products....particularly since the version of RX does everything I need already.



The sub backfired for them….they are now re thinking their strategy.


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 30, 2021)

easyrider said:


> The sub backfired for them….they are now re thinking their strategy.


That is good news. 

Do you have any links to articles/threads on how this has backfired ?


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## easyrider (Sep 30, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> That is good news.
> 
> Do you have any links to articles/threads on how this has backfired ?



Big thread over on gearspace….and the free upgrade to RX9 etc…

I got sent an email with a link to upgrade to MPS4 with free upgrade to RX9 for $149 direct from them…I didn’t bite….not yet….


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 30, 2021)

Yeah, I'm still on MPS 3.1, and there have been three sales where you could upgrade to MPS 4 for $149.00 (and even less at places like JRR).

But Izotope can take a running jump until the sort out the subscription mess.


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## kitekrazy (Sep 30, 2021)

machinesworking said:


> Not a fanboy, thanks for the name calling, cool internet outcome is jumping to conclusions like that. I bought Reason when it came out, I left it at v2.5. Recently upgraded to 11, then 12. that's hardly fanboy level by any measure. It was 100-129 20 years ago to upgrade. Raising prices after 20 years is not what I would call crazy. The fact that the industry has in general has come down in price a bit is the only thing that makes it make any sense at all to me.
> 
> I 100% get being upset about the pace of upgrades, but at a basic level from the outside it's a solid package of devices, Logic is the only comparison, and we all know why Logic is cheap.


I didn't accuse you of being a fanboy. You got some value out of your upgrade. Reason is the only DAW license I've encountered with an extreme price hike. The DAW itself is average at best. They increased the upgrade price over 50% That's extreme and I doubt the developers really backed this. They might as well have Gibson running them.


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## Trensharo (Oct 1, 2021)

machinesworking said:


> I bought the upgrade. I don't get the hate? I upgraded for $99 on sale, to Reason 10 with the upgrade to 11 for free from Reason 2.5. You can jump on and off the Reason train anytime you want to as long as they keep the same policy. In December if they're on schedule Reason will be running native on an M1 Mac here, keeping me satisfied enough if NI, IK, Arturia, etc. etc. isn't there yet.


Live Suite is $649, practically, if purchased directly from Ableton.

Who doesn't have a Lite license to upgrade off of. I have extras. They're given away like 🍬 on Halloween.

*Edit*: Live Suite Upgrade from Lite can be purchased for $529 tax free at Best Service...


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## Trensharo (Oct 1, 2021)

machinesworking said:


> I 100% get being upset about the pace of upgrades, but at a basic level from the outside it's a solid package of devices, Logic is the only comparison, and we all know why Logic is cheap.


What good are the devices if the sequencer disappoints. At that point, you're basically buying a bundle of instruments, effects, sounds, samples and players. Native Instruments has a better offering for that. 

Logic is cheap, but it also could sale for considerably more and justify it via its development and feature set. This is what is off-putting about Reason, especially for pulling in new users - those who aren't already nostalgically or professionally attached to it. 

The rack doesn't mater if you don't even have another DAW to use it in, any why buy this if you're just going to turn around and buy another DAW to use it as a budget Komplete, anyways... for $500. When you can often get the latter for almost half as much?


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## Trensharo (Oct 1, 2021)

easyrider said:


> It’s clearly to encourage SUB use….wrong strategy though you only have to see what happened to Izotope !


iZotope's perpetual are so deeply discounted so often that it doesn't even matter that they went sub. You just buy what you want and then pick up an upgrade here and there when they're dirt cheap. Not at all the same situation. 

If you can do math, there is no reason to complain there. This is like iZotope raiding the price on everything, barely having a dale, and then keeping the subscription as is. 

Again, not remotely comparable.


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## easyrider (Oct 1, 2021)

Trensharo said:


> iZotope's perpetual are so deeply discounted so often that it doesn't even matter that they went sub. You just buy what you want and then pick up an upgrade here and there when they're dirt cheap. Not at all the same situation.
> 
> If you can do math, there is no reason to complain there. This is like iZotope raiding the price on everything, barely having a dale, and then keeping the subscription as is.
> 
> Again, not remotely comparable.


The sub is updated with so called pro features the perpetual are not….that’s what the issue is….


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## Tren (Oct 2, 2021)

easyrider said:


> The sub is updated with so called pro features the perpetual are not….that’s what the issue is….


Guess you didn’t read.

It doesn’t matter. Anyone with a clue is buying iZotope for like 60-75% off. This is like complaining about Waves subscription. Who cares? You can buy the plugins for almost nothing in isolation. So, just wait and when the features eventually trickle down to perpetual you upgrade for dirt cheap.

iZotope is doing nothing unprecedented. Microsoft does the exact same thing with Office. No one is boycotting office because the Editor isn’t in Perpetual Word. You people just love to whine about whatever you can latch onto.

There is hardly anything anyone “needs” in those subscription versions - and that’s being generous.

This is 100% FOMO.

Perpetual owners of any product are not owed feature updates. They’re owed only what has existed at release (what was advertised) and bug fixes and maintenance updates, if necessary.

Developers have been… very kind to us over the past decade or so. Maybe that’s why they’re all having to run towards a subscription model now, though… Users have become spoiled by the handouts.


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## easyrider (Oct 2, 2021)

Tren said:


> Guess you didn’t read.
> 
> It doesn’t matter. Anyone with a clue is buying iZotope for like 60-75% off. This is like complaining about Waves subscription. Who cares? You can buy the plugins for almost nothing in isolation. So, just wait and when the features eventually trickle down to perpetual you upgrade for dirt cheap.


There has been no actual confirmation direct from Izotope that Perpetuals will still exist In the future. They have been pathetic in their response to this simple question.





Tren said:


> iZotope is doing nothing unprecedented. Microsoft does the exact same thing with Office. No one is boycotting office because the Editor isn’t in Perpetual Word. You people just love to whine about whatever you can latch onto.
> 
> There is hardly anything anyone “needs” in those subscription versions - and that’s being generous.
> 
> This is 100% FOMO.


There has been no actual confirmation direct from Izotope that Perpetuals will still exist In the future. They have been pathetic in their response to this simple question.



Tren said:


> Perpetual owners of any product are not owed feature updates. They’re owed only what has existed at release (what was advertised) and bug fixes and maintenance updates, if necessary.
> 
> Developers have been… very kind to us over the past decade or so. Maybe that’s why they’re all having to run towards a subscription model now, though… Users have become spoiled by the handouts.


There has been no actual confirmation direct from Izotope that Perpetuals will still exist In the future. They have been pathetic in their response to this simple question.


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## Tren (Oct 2, 2021)

easyrider said:


> There has been no actual confirmation direct from Izotope that Perpetuals will still exist In the future. They have been pathetic in their response to this simple question.


Not sure why this matters. You got what you paid for. What may or may not exist in the future is non-factor. When you buy a product, you pay for what value is offered by what is offered in that iteration of the product; not some hypothetical (and unknown) changes in the future. 

They don’t owe you a response. They only owe you the perpetual license you paid for. Business is not charity. 

You just come across as blindly picking out sentences to quote and reply nonsensically. It’s as if you have not read what you are responding to.

I am not going to agree with you simply because you pretend to take a moral high ground and railing against subscriptions is in vogue. I’m a bit less sentimental…


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## easyrider (Oct 2, 2021)

Tren said:


> Not sure why this matters. You got what you paid for. What may or may not exist in the future is non-factor. When you buy a product, you pay for what value is offered by what is offered in that iteration of the product; not some hypothetical (and unknown) changes in the future.


I bought MPS3. If there is no upgrade path to MPS5 and only subscription offered then I will not upgrade. Izoptope not telling me means they don't get my money. Yes of course I can still use MPS3 until it stops working but it would be nice to know if my investment in MPS4 would worth it.

Upgrade pricing is part of the deal. You buy Studio One 5 you get free updates until studio one 6 then you get upgrade pricing.

You don't buy Studio one 5 for 399 then buy studio one 6 for 399...you get upgrade pricing. Presonus has stated that perpetuals of Studio one will not be going away, they offer meaningful free updates in-between versions and offer discounts on upgrades to the next version.

If Presonus stated that they were going SUB only I would have to look elsewhere as I wont SUB period..



Tren said:


> They don’t owe you a response. They only owe you the perpetual license you paid for. Business is not charity.


That's fine then, they wont get my money for MPS4....Seems an odd business practice to alienate the majority of your customer base....

Customers pay their wages....I am their customer. If they want to be vague about the upgrade paths in the future and not supporting Perpetuals that's fine by me...I'll go elsewhere....But this is a perfectly reasonable question to ask.




Tren said:


> You just come across as blindly picking out sentences to quote and reply nonsensically. It’s as if you have not read what you are responding to.
> 
> I am not going to agree with you simply because you pretend to take a moral high ground and railing against subscriptions is in vogue. I’m a bit less sentimental…


Upgrade paths are an integral part of consumer choice when it comes to investing in software or a platform.

Many top developers offer free upgrades and reduced upgrade pricing in order to satisfy their user base. One of the reasons I finally chose Studio one as my DAW.

I mean what don't you get?


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## Michael Antrum (Oct 2, 2021)

Tren said:


> Not sure why this matters.


If it didn’t matter, then you wouldn’t be so vigorously defending the subscription model.

But it clearly does matter to a lot of people, whether or not it does to you is neither here nor there. What’s more important is the number of people who do feel that way.

I do not like subscription software, and will stop buying from companies who try and impose it. I am far from alone in this view.

But it will become clear in time if these business decisions prove to be wise or not. But there are only so many subscriptions the market will bear, and there are only a few companies like Adobe/Avid who have the market presence to force the issue. The Propellerheads and the Izotopes of this world, I suspect will find that they do not. 

…..and there’s absolutely no need to be quite so rude about it either.


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## easyrider (Oct 2, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> If it didn’t matter, then you wouldn’t be so vigorously defending the subscription model.
> 
> But it clearly does matter to a lot of people, whether or not it does to you is neither here nor there. What’s more important is the number of people who do feel that way.
> 
> ...


Agreed,

Developers cannot force people into buying their software by offering bespoke updates and imposing subscriptions.

Well they can but what happens is people just move on....

Keeping a happy and satisfied customer base is key to business. Without custiomers you have no business. The market is saturated. Plugin Alliance tried it...Making certain Plugins SUB only...It took a few days of Customer Bashing for them to realise their mistake and U turn.

I have zero sentimentality with software or Computer hardware....I'll buy what I want when I want it...I don't rent my PC....I upgrade when I want....

If Presonus decide to go SUB only they get ditched...I'll go Reaper or whatever.

It really is that simple. I have no idea what the guy is saying as its mostly just whitenoise....


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## kitekrazy (Oct 2, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> I missed this last week - glad a search for another thread brought it up, since I'm pondering the Reason 12 upgrade now. I just learned about Reward Points a few days ago, and it turns out that buying the upgrade to 12 will put me in line for two $50 reward credits, which I can then use on the two REs that I don't already have and weren't included in the 11 Suite. This will bring my total outlay for Reason 12 + *all* Reason Studios REs to somewhere around $600 (I got a pretty fantastic deal via Best Service last December on the 11 Suite).


I had 60 in rewards and got Friktion for $49. Life just got more complicated with more REs and VSTs.


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## kitekrazy (Oct 2, 2021)

Trensharo said:


> *What good are the devices if the sequencer disappoints. At that point, you're basically buying a bundle of instruments, effects, sounds, samples and players. Native Instruments has a better offering for that.
> *
> Logic is cheap, but it also could sale for considerably more and justify it via its development and feature set. This is what is off-putting about Reason, especially for pulling in new users - those who aren't already nostalgically or professionally attached to it.
> 
> The rack doesn't mater if you don't even have another DAW to use it in, any why buy this if you're just going to turn around and buy another DAW to use it as a budget Komplete, anyways... for $500. When you can often get the latter for almost half as much?


That seems to be the consensus of those refusing to upgrade. It is still very stone age in some things.


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## kitekrazy (Oct 2, 2021)

Some would fail at being a developer having a certain attitude. A larger market means more competition. BTW this thread turned more about Izotope and not Reason. 

So has anyone with R12 removed R11 yet?


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## PropitiousME (Oct 2, 2021)

kitekrazy said:


> Some would fail at being a developer having a certain attitude. A larger market means more competition. BTW this thread turned more about Izotope and not Reason.
> 
> So has anyone with R12 removed R11 yet?


Nope, but removed 12 and reinstalled 11 clean after a complete purge from Win-10 system components (RE: registry & local directories). R12 screwed up the offline authorization in 11. Honestly, RS has really outdone themselves with the hole they’ve dug with this release (comms to code).

The update itself was sloppy, not just the new and half baked changes. Each update is more of the same (so far). I consider myself a power user of PC’s so I don’t really mind a little extra leg work or manual shuffle, but I’m probably not the average consumer in that respect either. Most people just want things to work with as little hoop jumping as necessary.

One could feasibly argue R12 is probably the most significant release for the life cycle of the product for the sheer fact they did it along side a complete change in the underlying revenue structure. Getting this release right so R+ sub-model could thrive should have been imperative.

I can’t help but imagine all those new R+ subs that are going to expire inside ~2-3 mos for the simple fact folks let the 3.3.3 deal expire or they just get tired of being paid beta testers for what is clearly a poorly managed development cycle.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the niche Reason brings to the table and 11 was solid as a rock for me. Glad I purchased Suite when I did. Totally worth the investment IMO, but I don’t know what they were thinking with 12.

They’re up to their eyeballs in negative sentiment even if some of it is hyperbole or unwarranted criticism (most of it is valid consumer concerns though IMO). I’m seeing a trend where there are more folks reflecting on a myriad of issues the longer they work with 12 too. So some of the knowledgeable content providers that were saying they really had no issues early in the release cycle changing tune after discovering all the “little things” — death by a thousand cuts so to speak. It all adds up, lets hope they can right the ship and turn it into a win. God knows they got work to put in if they’re ever gonna properly qualify this new $200 upgrade cadence. Maybe that’s just a big stick though…


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## PropitiousME (Oct 2, 2021)

Exhibit A) price change took place on 10/01 (upgrades now $199).

They couldn’t even be bothered to update their website to reflect such an important distinction for existing consumers. Yes, it will show $199 when any unsuspecting user(s) get to their cart (RE: ensue confusion and emails to sales claiming false adverts), but there is literally zero excuse for this level of poor business / brand management… either understaffed, manipulative or just don’t care. *Shrug*


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## rrichard63 (Oct 2, 2021)

Reason Studios seems to be acting like a company that was acquired recently. Is that in fact the case?


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## PropitiousME (Oct 2, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> Reason Studios seems to be acting like a company that was acquired recently. Is that in fact the case?


2017 they took on capital investment from Verdane… many speculate they’re the malevolent force behind this underlying fiasco. Wouldn’t be surprised. I’m sure ROI is a very pressing hurdle at this stage of the investment. Especially with economic outlook (current). SaaS models are going to take big hits over the next couple years IMO (RE: inflation and luxuries being back burnered in general, etc).









Reason Studios | Verdane Portfolio Company







verdane.com


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## rrichard63 (Oct 2, 2021)

PropitiousME said:


> 2017 they took on capital investment from Verdane… many speculate they’re the malevolent force behind this underlying fiasco. Wouldn’t be surprised. I’m sure ROI is a very pressing hurdle at this stage of the investment. Especially with economic outlook (current). SaaS models are going to take big hits over the next couple years IMO (RE: inflation and luxuries being back burnered in general, etc).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! Do you know whether Verdane has a majority or a minority interest in Reason Studios?


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## PropitiousME (Oct 2, 2021)

They entered as a majority shareholder. Ernst Nathorst-Böös is the CEO and largest minority stake.


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## easyrider (Oct 3, 2021)

Website being inaccurate is unprofessional tbh…


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## kitekrazy (Oct 3, 2021)

PropitiousME said:


> Nope, but removed 12 and reinstalled 11 clean after a complete purge from Win-10 system components (RE: registry & local directories). R12 screwed up the offline authorization in 11. Honestly, RS has really outdone themselves with the hole they’ve dug with this release (comms to code).
> 
> The update itself was sloppy, not just the new and half baked changes. Each update is more of the same (so far). I consider myself a power user of PC’s so I don’t really mind a little extra leg work or manual shuffle, but I’m probably not the average consumer in that respect either. Most people just want things to work with as little hoop jumping as necessary.
> 
> ...


I was able to write 12 to the Ignition Key.


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## charlieclouser (Oct 4, 2021)

PropitiousME said:


> They’re up to their eyeballs in negative sentiment even if some of it is hyperbole or unwarranted criticism (most of it is valid consumer concerns though IMO).


Count me in with the negative nancy crowd. I've been a flag-waving Propellerheads fanboy since the late 1990's when we hired Steve Duda to make custom in-house hacked mods of ReBirth for use on a NIN album which debuted at #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 album charts... I did a demo for the release of Reason... I bought every product and update they ever released... never asked for an NFR... etc etc etc...

But now they've deprecated ReWire, setting in motion a chain of events that has completely and permanently broken the entire workflow that I've relied upon literally for decades.

They can suck my entire ball sack.


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## machinesworking (Oct 4, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> Count me in with the negative nancy crowd. I've been a flag-waving Propellerheads fanboy since the late 1990's when we hired Steve Duda to make custom in-house hacked mods of ReBirth for use on a NIN album which debuted at #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 album charts... I did a demo for the release of Reason... I bought every product and update they ever released... never asked for an NFR... etc etc etc...
> 
> But now they've deprecated ReWire, setting in motion a chain of events that has completely and permanently broken the entire workflow that I've relied upon literally for decades.
> 
> They can suck my entire ball sack.


Yeah the death of Rewire, ( you could see it coming for years) , is just a total waste. Rewire could have evolved into something truly amazing, FL Studio and Reaper proved you could have a rewire slave that could host VSTs etc. Before Digital Performer got native MPE support I could host MPE synths in Reaper rewired into DP as a slave and play an MPE synth into a track in Reaper while DP remained the master etc. If that ability had been universally adopted it would be a god send. All that's left is Ableton Link and it's not even close.


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## charlieclouser (Oct 4, 2021)

machinesworking said:


> All that's left is Ableton Link and it's not even close.


Yeah, Link is just for laptop jockeys who want to "jam together". Garbage.

Logic is great for VI and mixing but sucks for manipulating audio independent of tempo.
Ableton is great for manipulating audio independent of tempo but sucks for VI and mixing.
The two ReWired together is an unbeatable combination.
The two synced together via Beat Clock or MTC is garbage.
Either one by itself is half a DAW.

Even if Logic had Ableton Link that's not much better than Beat Clock.


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## machinesworking (Oct 4, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> Yeah, Link is just for laptop jockeys who want to "jam together". Garbage.
> 
> Logic is great for VI and mixing but sucks for manipulating audio independent of tempo.
> Ableton is great for manipulating audio independent of tempo but sucks for VI and mixing.
> ...


 You got a lot more out of rewire than I did that way. I ended up for years starting a song in Live then transferring it over to Logic, later DP to finish. rewire of course messes up Lives ability to host VI's, so even with rewire it was a total hassle for me. It was super disappointing that Max4Live was disabled with rewire, that just really sucked. But it was a total shock to see Live get Push 2 support when rewire slaved, then rewire gets dropped.


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## charlieclouser (Oct 4, 2021)

machinesworking said:


> You got a lot more out of rewire than I did that way.


I never used Live for anything other than manipulating audio that I dropped into the arrangement / timeline view. Never hosted VIs, never used Clips view, and the only Live-native plugins I ever used were ping-pong delay and auto filter. It became my entire world for working with audio, whether it was loops or just manipulating fragments of audio with the various stretch algorithms to turn a little blip of something into a 30-second grain-scape.

Then I'd bounce the results over to Logic for integration into my cues. With ReWire, obviously the bounce goes through a direct audio path, so in Logic I'd enable region-solo with no regions selected, have Live's ReWire return going directly to the stereo out without going through any stem-sub-masters or any other processing, leave its return fader at zero, and do an offline bounce in Logic. Live would track all of the tempo changes programmed into Logic, even during an offline bounce, so I could do nifty tricks like have percussion loops gradually speeding up, etc. It is so great.

Ideally, Logic's audio file browser would have all of the features that make the one in Live so great, like using the arrow keys to scroll through samples in a folder and open+close folders, the "wait for next quarter-note before triggering the selected file", playing loops in sync even if they are raw WAV files and not Apple Loops, etc. I showed all of that stuff to Clemens from the Logic team at my studio a few years ago when he was surprised that I wanted ReWire to continue to be supported, and asked why I still used Live even though Logic was so great (LOL). I showed him my whole workflow, why Live's browser destroyed Logic's, etc - and he seemed to understand... but the only stuff Logic has cribbed from Live is the stuff I don't need, like clip-launching stuff.

I still have Logic v10.4.8 and Live v10 on my main rig - WITH ReWire, and I'm not going to change anything until and unless Logic gets Link or some other solution appears.

Obviously I'd love to be able to just toss Live and use Logic for all the stuff I now do in Live, but it's still missing a ton of features.

I will probably get an M2 laptop when the next round of MacBook Pros drops, and I'll use that as a test bed for current versions of Logic and Live, but with the way things have been going with that stuff I'm not very optimistic.


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## José Herring (Oct 4, 2021)

PropitiousME said:


> 2017 they took on capital investment from Verdane… many speculate they’re the malevolent force behind this underlying fiasco. Wouldn’t be surprised. I’m sure ROI is a very pressing hurdle at this stage of the investment. Especially with economic outlook (current). SaaS models are going to take big hits over the next couple years IMO (RE: inflation and luxuries being back burnered in general, etc).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This explains a lot.


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## machinesworking (Oct 5, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> I never used Live for anything other than manipulating audio that I dropped into the arrangement / timeline view. Never hosted VIs, never used Clips view, and the only Live-native plugins I ever used were ping-pong delay and auto filter. It became my entire world for working with audio, whether it was loops or just manipulating fragments of audio with the various stretch algorithms to turn a little blip of something into a 30-second grain-scape.
> 
> Then I'd bounce the results over to Logic for integration into my cues. With ReWire, obviously the bounce goes through a direct audio path, so in Logic I'd enable region-solo with no regions selected, have Live's ReWire return going directly to the stereo out without going through any stem-sub-masters or any other processing, leave its return fader at zero, and do an offline bounce in Logic. Live would track all of the tempo changes programmed into Logic, even during an offline bounce, so I could do nifty tricks like have percussion loops gradually speeding up, etc. It is so great.
> 
> ...


Coming from DP with it's Chunks before using Logic, I took to Session Clips right away. So maybe 25% of what I wrote was directly in Live. I got destroyed by Logic 7.0 (it crashed without the engine running once when I went to get coffee), so I went back to DP as a main DAW. 

The recent update to DP11.02 officially gets rid of rewire support, it was starting to mess with DP11 on startup for some people. 

It sucks, Rewire should be on version 4 or so, with completely transparent functionality by now, not deprecated.


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## cedricm (Oct 7, 2021)

Leslie Fuller said:


> Though I’m no longer using Reason as a DAW (recently sold my license), I still follow what is going on in that space with interest, having been with Reason since v2.5.
> 
> Here’s an update on Reason Studios blog posted yesterday, with a large price increase:
> 
> ...


They must be suicidal since Reason has been way too expensive for many years.
I deeply regret my investment in this DAW as well as falling for the V12 upgrade which is of no value whatsoever and doesn't even the instruments developped after V11.


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## easyrider (Oct 24, 2021)

I just got the Happy accident bundle from reason….bough the Pattern Mutator first with a reward points for £14 then the price adjusted for the bundle and got the bundle for £69

worked out at £27 each. 😜


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