# Cinesamples - 30% Memorial Day Sale



## constaneum (May 20, 2014)

Cinesamples is currently having 30% Memorial Day Sale !! Just notice that. =o


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## jamwerks (May 20, 2014)

Cool, thanks for posting. CinePerc Core + Pro for $384. Hard to pass up!


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## Damon (May 20, 2014)

Picked up Hollywoodwinds yesterday for 139 bucks and love it. Gonna make doing woodwind scales soooo much easier!


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## paulmatthew (May 20, 2014)

Cinesamples always have great sales where the budget minded can buy what they've been wanting. The only thing from them left on my radar is Cineorch and Randy's Celeste. Any thoughts on either of these libraries?


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## NYC Composer (May 20, 2014)

Is it just me, or has CineSamples left the building? (Vi Control).


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## NYC Composer (May 20, 2014)

paulmatthew @ Tue May 20 said:


> Cinesamples always have great sales where the budget minded can buy what they've been wanting. The only thing from them left on my radar is Cineorch and Randy's Celeste. Any thoughts on either of these libraries?



Cineorch makes for great glue, especially for moody, ponderous LOTR- style symphonic moments. Pretty good tutti orch hits too.


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## The Darris (May 20, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Tue May 20 said:


> Is it just me, or has CineSamples left the building? (Vi Control).



I wouldn't be surprised. Ever since that issue with one user overly EQing the shit out of their freebie Military Snare just to say it sounded bad and then other users blatantly raging on the forums about their products, they have been less inclined to answer/participate in questions on the forums. They have been more approachable on Facebook/Twitter as well as through the support line. You also have to keep in mind that it has been over a year since they released a product.


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## ryanstrong (May 20, 2014)

paulmatthew @ Tue May 20 said:


> Randy's Celeste... Any thoughts?



Love it. Has that magical quality to it that Randy has done on things like Harry Potter etc. The adjustable attack is a lot of fun. I'm not biased but I could be given I designed the interface to the instrument, that said it's well worth the pick up to have such an iconic sound at your finger tips - especially at a discount.


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## NYC Composer (May 20, 2014)

The Darris @ Tue May 20 said:


> NYC Composer @ Tue May 20 said:
> 
> 
> > Is it just me, or has CineSamples left the building? (Vi Control).
> ...



They're having a 30% off sale, no mention in the commercial section (meaning, I assume, they don't advertise here anymore.) They said flat out we (VIC) are a relatively inconsequential portion of their sales. Hey, I'm sure it's true, and there are buttheads everywhere, user-base wise. However, I find this continuing sensitivity and major flounce-off of devs vaguely troubling.

People of my age group rend to speak of "millennials" as feeling overly "entitled". Personally, I'm starting to see more and more devs as entitled. If products receive public criticisms, whether legitimate or stemming from end user misunderstanding of their products, there is often a kerfluffle. Complaints of end user unreasonableness or rudeness abound. Hello?? It's the InterWeb after all.....anonymity and distance seem to bring out the worst in folks...so? Don't flounce off. Ignore the idiots, deal with situations with equanimity, move on. Btw, I'm not suggesting devs try to do tech support on discussion forums- I think that just leads to trouble.

I was thinking about this because:

1. I was a little surprised CS was having a sale without a notice here, and 
2. I have a little money burning a hole in my virtual wallet.

Maybe I have it wrong- but if CS doesn't need my business as a member of VIC, I guess I don't need any more of their products. Here endeth the rant.


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## ryanstrong (May 20, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Tue May 20 said:


> 1. I was a little surprised CS was having a sale without a notice here



Why would they need to? *@constaneum* has already done that for them here.


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## bbunker (May 20, 2014)

I do see some irony, NYC, in you taking offence to Mikes Patti and Barry's taking offence.

I kind of think that indulging in the thought process that developers need to maintain a relationship with forum members could be considered as coming even more from a sense of entitlement!


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## NYC Composer (May 20, 2014)

bbunker @ Wed May 21 said:


> I do see some irony, NYC, in you taking offence to Mikes Patti and Barry's taking offence.
> 
> I kind of think that indulging in the thought process that developers need to maintain a relationship with forum members could be considered as coming even more from a sense of entitlement!



Ironically, they seemed to think it was a great idea to promote their products here until their feelings were hurt-then they decided it wasn't a good idea. Ironically.

Btw, where did I mention "forum members", as in a personalized relationship?

Edit- look. They walked away from this forum essentially saying (I'm paraphrasing here, but it's close) "we don't really need to be here, this forum is a very small percentage of our overall business." This struck me as a startling statement and a truly weird way to do business, but it's their business and their choice how to run it, just as it's my choice as a consumer who I want to purchase things from. I stand by my original statements and I'm sure CineSamples will manage to flourish without me somehow.*

*irony*


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## wesbender (May 20, 2014)

How would a dev even know if a customer is a member here? What a load of nonsense.

I don't believe I've ever seen a "check here if you visit VI-Control" box while making a purchase.

The sample-buying community as a whole is a relatively small one, and many of us likely find some interest in a sample-focused forum (of which this is one of the largest). 

I would say with confidence that a much larger portion of their customer base are members here (or frequently visiting non-members) than they might realize.


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## bbunker (May 20, 2014)

Okey-dokey. It isn't ironic then.

I guess I'll go with hypocritical. You're accusing a developer of being too sensitive and taking too much offence that drives them away, while being too sensitive yourself to the offence of their leaving.

I mean this in the mildest way possible; I mean, they're entitled to go 'flourish without you', and you're entitled to not buy their stuff. Fair deal. I guess I'm just offering a friendly reminder that the internetz in general, and this forum in particular, can turn into the plaything of crackpots, and judging them too harshly for a relatively childish rant while throwing the 'deuces' and walking away might end up making you pay the cost if you would have benefited from getting something useful for a bargain.

Just saying!


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## constaneum (May 20, 2014)

One thing strange though, I didn't receive email regarding the Memorial Day Sale from Cinesamples. Only came across the sale when i was browsing their webby. hmmm....


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## NYC Composer (May 20, 2014)

bbunker @ Wed May 21 said:


> Okey-dokey. It isn't ironic then.
> 
> I guess I'll go with hypocritical. You're accusing a developer of being too sensitive and taking too much offence that drives them away, while being too sensitive yourself to the offence of their leaving.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure why you're personalizing this. You've now mentioned the ironic wrongheadedness of my statements and the hypocrisy I practice (in the mildest way possible of course)  Why not comment on the business practices I mentioned, rather your personal opinions of my thoughts or my character? I mean after all, I haven't accused you of being a fanboy, have I? :wink: 

I don't judge them harshly or in any way that's personal. I think they've done business here in an odd way. The "relatively childish rant" has been know to end artistic careers, and I really can't think of a situation where it ever makes sense, but whatever. I guess no one's a robot, even in business. Still, it would make sense to me if it cost them a little business, like mine for example. As to the useful bargain I'll miss, I too will somehow find a way to flourish. Cheers!


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## Udo (May 21, 2014)

Maybe an executor, who's not famliar with the industry, is handling their estate. :wink: 

It's strange (if not rude) that cutomers didn't receive an email announcement.


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## Guy Rowland (May 21, 2014)

Larry - I think a little more context here and a step back might be a good idea.

As The Darris says, there was a very ugly incident I think was the catalyst for this, but imo it was considerably worse than he described. I think what some guy did - no longer here - was to chop off the attack part of the free snare the guys had just released, leaving effectively the release trigger, put 30db of gain into it and throw it up as the actual snare sound saying the library was shit. So if anyone couldn't be bothered to download 1gb and just listened to that, they might think it was representative, which is kinda fraudulent behaviour. Fine - he's an idiot, whatever. However, it was what came next that - for me anyway - made it VI Control's worst moment.

One of the mods - no longer a mod I believe - sided with The Idiot - and also layed into CS for releasing shoddy stuff. That was the point that I went off on my own hissy fit for a few weeks. I reasoned that the lunatics had finally taken over the asylum and if you couldn't trust the police, who could you trust? It was explained to me by another lovely mod that the moderation here didn't work like that, that the person concerned was just speaking like any other punter. I got over it and came back under my own name, mostly cos most of the community is so good and useful, but that incident still stank to me - and still does.

I think that incident was hugely damaging to developer relations in general and CineSamples in particular. I can't speak for them, only for me, but the issue was never that there were some idiots saying stupid things - duh its the internet - but that it seemed to be sanctioned by the forum police. That may not be entirely correct, but it was how it seemed to me at the time. What I do know is that CS generously released a free instrument from their new super-expensive-to-make-in-a-top-scoring-stage library and the gesture was trashed by both punter and mod here at VI Control.

It doesn't altogether surprise me that they've been a little lukewarm to this place since.

But even taking a step back from all that, it doesn't bother me that they're not here much. What matters to me from a dev is a) the product and b) the support. CS's support has consistently been among the best I've ever had. They've made me custom patches to fix specific issues I've had. They're not always superfast, but they absolutely get it done. Audiobro are another company with outstanding support that very very rarely post here.

Of course it's totally up to all of us as to whom we support and why. There's a pretty big dev active here that I'll never buy from again, for various reasons - I don't make a deal out of it, but I don't want to give them another cent of my cash (but in case you were wondering, it's not EW!) But I personally don't get your reasoning here with CS. If their support was lousy - sure. But after how they were treated here, I have every sympathy with them using their limited time to communicate via other means. 

PS - I suspect the lack of an email was an accidental drop off - dunno. I follow CS on Twitter and FB, so I heard about it that way.


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## The Darris (May 21, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Wed May 21 said:


> Larry - I think a little more context here and a step back might be a good idea.....con't



Yeah Guy. I totally agree with your points here. I didn't want to fully get into the matter but I was active in that forum during that sh**storm. It was painful. I myself stopped coming here for quite awhile until I started seeing people being helpful and worth the time a day to ask for help and provide help to.

It is surprising though that moderators don't necessarily lead by example. Seems a bit counterproductive to the health of this community. Just my thoughts though.


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## NYC Composer (May 21, 2014)

I remember your reactions at the time, Guy. We disagreed then, we disagree now, no point in re-beating that dead horse, eh? The only thing I'll say is that I'm not just making the point about them, there seem to be multiple sensitive souls in the dev world. Most have generally retreated from forum interaction and realized the practical impossibility of offering tech support in a discussion forum, and I respect that choice. The "I'm taking my toys and going home and I already have enough friends so goodbye" episode made for an extreme and odd example IMO, regardless of dumb InterWeb provocation. YMMV.

Edit-btw, Guy, and I think this is a fair thing to say- it's not that you don't understand my stance-it's that you disagree, which is a horse of a different feather. :wink:


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## Guy Rowland (May 21, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Wed May 21 said:


> btw, Guy, and I think this is a fair thing to say- it's not that you don't understand my stance-it's that you disagree, which is a horse of a different feather. :wink:



Actually I don't think I do understand... I can't really grasp why reduced presence on a forum = I won't buy from them any more. I get that they said VI Control wasn't a big part of their customer-base but.... nope, don't really understand it.

Anyway, on a general point I see their email machine is back in action, and the sale's on to the end of the month.


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## MichaelL (May 21, 2014)

I received the CineSamples sale email. And, as was suggested above, I purchased something that I was waiting for. The price is right, so I picked up CineBrass PRO.

As far as not participating here, they've got "CORE" buyers so to speak that they can reach through email. 

As far a a post mortem is concerned. We've been barraged from all sides over the past few years with new orchestral sample libraries from EW, CineSamples, 8dio, Spitfire, Project SAM, etc etc. I'd think it's risky to continue down the road.

At some point, the improvements are minimal, and your trying to pour 10 gallons of water into a 5 pound bucket. Right now, you have to fill a hole in my template, not give me a variation on what I already have, unless it's a quantum leap forward, to get my attention.

BUT...CineSamples isn't the only silent developer here. I've all but given up on Spectrasonics. Thankfully, third parties, like Matt (the Unfinished) provide us with some newness there.

And let us not forget the ever present software pirates, who suck the wind out of everyone's sails. Scum, both sellers and buyers.

back to my regularly scheduled show..... ~o)


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## mscottweber (May 21, 2014)

I got the email today, too, and I recall that in the past the emails always came a day or so after they were announced via website and social media.


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## Guy Rowland (May 21, 2014)

MichaelL @ Wed May 21 said:


> We've been barraged from all sides over the past few years with new orchestral sample libraries from EW, CineSamples, 8dio, Spitfire, Project SAM, etc etc. I'd think it's risky to continue down the road.
> 
> At some point, the improvements are minimal, and your trying to pour 10 gallons of water into a 5 pound bucket. Right now, you have to fill a hole in my template, not give me a variation on what I already have, unless it's a quantum leap forward, to get my attention.



Yeah. I'm finding it increasingly hard to get excited about new orchestral libs. We have so much good stuff now, and it feels like marginal gains. A few more artics here... a nice variation of tone there... if we're honest, talent is nearly always the limiting factor if you have the best of the libraries that are out there right now.

Then you hear 1 second of Session Horns Pro and experience the huge chasm that exist in that field - despite some great programming ideas from NI - and realise that there are still non-orchestral mountains to climb.


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## playz123 (May 21, 2014)

I too received information from Cinesamples, so contrary to some of the earlier comments in the thread, Cinesamples is not ignoring their customers. 

And Guy, I totally agree with your last post. Actually in some areas, we've come a long way, and some new libraries are offering improvements, but perhaps not ground breaking ones, while others clearly demonstrate that we still have a long way to go before we can even approach a realistic result. What I've been trying to do is work with some of the amazing libraries I already have and get to know them better, and learn how to use them. It's not enough to just buy a library and then expect miracles. It's so important to learn how to get the best out of them. That's what some of the people who produce the demos we hear have done, and why their pieces sound so good. Oh, and you are correct; talent definitely is a factor as well.


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## MichaelL (May 21, 2014)

[quote="playz123 @ Wed May 21, 2014 5:20 pm" Oh, and you are correct; talent definitely is a factor as well. [/quote]

And, that I think is what keeps sales of new libs flowing...the hope that a new sample library will bring with it a magic elixir that will substitute for undeveloped talent. 

Better samples do not make better writing. 


@Guy...I still think BBL, may be the most cost effective answer to something like Session Horns "Pro"....but I am tempted to give Sample Modeling a go with a breath controller. Not the cost effective alternative. Other non-orch horn libs sound too plastic, like a big accordion to me.


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## woodsdenis (May 21, 2014)

For the record I got an email too re the sale.


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## NYC Composer (May 21, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Wed May 21 said:


> NYC Composer @ Wed May 21 said:
> 
> 
> > btw, Guy, and I think this is a fair thing to say- it's not that you don't understand my stance-it's that you disagree, which is a horse of a different feather. :wink:
> ...



"We don't need VIC. The bulk of our sales come from elsewhere."

You don't understand the implied offense from that statement and the subsequent withdrawal of advertising? They've made their point-why can't I make mine? Forget "reduced forum presence" (which I don't care about), it was a direct dis. Fair enough. I'm not on Facebook or Twitter or KVR or Gearslutz, I just hang here. If you don't get it, you don't get it, done.

I received the email as well (for the record, I own four CS products and think they do good work, but they're far from the only game in town.)


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## Ryan99 (May 21, 2014)

After the bashing I saw on this forum about Kirk Hunter in the beginning of the year, frequent bashing of Eastwest, now Cinesamples, I can understand some developers to stay away from here...


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## EastWest Lurker (May 21, 2014)

bbunker @ Tue May 20 said:


> I kind of think that indulging in the thought process that developers need to maintain a relationship with forum members could be considered as coming even more from a sense of entitlement!



+1. And the idea that developers basically have to suffer whatever is thrown at them, right or wrong, fair or unfair, because it is an internet forum and because they are the customers/potential customers, is dehumanizing and reduces them to nothing more than products.


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## NYC Composer (May 21, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Wed May 21 said:


> bbunker @ Tue May 20 said:
> 
> 
> > I kind of think that indulging in the thought process that developers need to maintain a relationship with forum members could be considered as coming even more from a sense of entitlement!
> ...



No, they should say they don't need the business and flounce off. much better.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 21, 2014)

If their products find an audience, they will survive without participating and tolerating the abuse, a conclusion that clearly more and more of them are reaching.

Or they will take a cue from EW and hire an emotionally tough mo-fo to open the cage and throw the meat in


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## constaneum (May 21, 2014)

Human nature. That's the problem with some of the forum members. You can suggest something for the sake of improving the libraries but not bashing it. People keep on bashing East West when I don't have any problem with them (maybe because i'm not using the Hollywood series. Still happily using my good old EWQL SO Gold with PLAY 3). Works like a gem on my 1st Gen core i5 PC with 16GB and SSD.


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## NYC Composer (May 21, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Wed May 21 said:


> If their products find an audience, they will survive without participating and tolerate the abuse, a conclusion that clearly more and more of them are reaching.
> 
> Or they will take a cue from EW and hire an emotionally tough mo-fo to open the cage and throw the meat in



would that be the same emotionally tough mofo who's announced he's flouncing away from VIC at various times due to some personal slight, only to come back a few days later?


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## EastWest Lurker (May 21, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Wed May 21 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Wed May 21 said:
> 
> 
> > If their products find an audience, they will survive without participating and tolerate the abuse, a conclusion that clearly more and more of them are reaching.
> ...



That was before I was getting paid 

And I DID come back even then didn't I? And flouncing is a rather loaded word I suggest you might avoid in the future.


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## NYC Composer (May 21, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Wed May 21 said:


> NYC Composer @ Wed May 21 said:
> 
> 
> > EastWest Lurker @ Wed May 21 said:
> ...



Good point! I think devs having a dedicated flak-catcher/tech helper is a fine notion. Sadly, it's probably too expensive for most companies to afford. 

Flouncing not relativistic enough for ya? How does "leaving in a huff" suit?


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## Dr.Quest (May 21, 2014)

I got an E-mail notice. Seemed pretty normal to me.
J


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## bbunker (May 21, 2014)

Sorry, NYC Composer...I'm not trying to be obstinate, but I don't really see how there's any implied offence by what Mike posted in his "most of our sales come from elsewhere" post.

It seemed at the time like nothing good would come out of their being here, and having to paw through page after page of discussion on samples that had been tweaked beyond recognition, or on how their libraries are 'unusable' because a few who had obviously pirated Cinebrass were still operating on the first version or couldn't figure out the modwheel controls. Wasn't "We don't need this, we don't get anything out of this, we're leaving" a reasonable answer to unjust criticism?

I in no way read into it that they actively didn't want VI-control members to buy products. It just seemed like simple math: the discussion around our products here is going to wrongly lose us sales, we get sales from elsewhere, so...later, VI-C.

Personally, I wish they'd come hang out here again. But I can't say that if I had been in their shoes that I would have done anything differently.


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## clarkus (May 21, 2014)

Re:

"they have been less inclined to answer/participate in questions on the forums ..."

I recently bought Drums of War from Cinesamples. I don't want to "Rage" on anyone, but I have to say installation was absurdly difficult. It took days. Tech support was patient, I will gave them that, and I am admittedly new to this whole game, so shame on me. But compared to installation of other libraries (NI, Spitfire, VSL, Sonic Couture...) it was nuts. They don't have phone support, so it was the game of "Okay I tried what you said and that didn't work. Any other ideas?" 

So be advised ....

I almost hate to post this given all this history & angst. But we're trying to help each other out, here, right?

Great sound, nice interface. Baffling, complicated installation.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 21, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Wed May 21 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Wed May 21 said:
> 
> 
> > NYC Composer @ Wed May 21 said:
> ...



Certainly less potentially offensive but not sure it is more accurate. I cannot speak for the CineSamples guys as to whether they feel they "left in a huff" but the couple of times I left it was not because I was offended by anything anyone directed at me _personally_, I left because I found myself thinking that I did not want to spend time with some of the real jerks here I encountered and the fact that in my mind the moderators did not moderate them enough. On refelction, I would come back because a couple of friendly members would remind me that there were also a goodly number of pretty good and knowledgeable folks here.

That said, if I no longer worked for EW, I probably would spend much less time here as I now could keep up most of the relationships that I value by email and PMs.


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## NYC Composer (May 22, 2014)

bbunker @ Thu May 22 said:


> Sorry, NYC Composer...I'm not trying to be obstinate, but I don't really see how there's any implied offence by what Mike posted in his "most of our sales come from elsewhere" post.
> 
> It seemed at the time like nothing good would come out of their being here, and having to paw through page after page of discussion on samples that had been tweaked beyond recognition, or on how their libraries are 'unusable' because a few who had obviously pirated Cinebrass were still operating on the first version or couldn't figure out the modwheel controls. Wasn't "We don't need this, we don't get anything out of this, we're leaving" a reasonable answer to unjust criticism?
> 
> ...



Bbunker-you can call me Larry - and I appreciate your taking a more substantive approach to this subject.

As to padding through pages of nonsense, I agree. I've said repeatedly that discussion forums are the wrong place to do tech support, unless one has a dedicated forum sport guy such as our own beloved Lurker.

Was their reaction to the b.s. here reasonable? Personally, I don't think so (had they remained in the Commercial Section only my opinion would be different, but to me this is a subjective judgement- obviously we disagree, fine.

As to them losing sales, their heavy participation in discussions and their self promotion at the beginning got them a lot of name recognition and a sense of "the little company that tries harder." I thought it was good marketing. I thought they way they left was bad and perplexing marketing. Again, subjective.

Personally, I'd like to see them take a position in the Commercial section here, answer the questions they choose to, refer the tech problems to their tech support and let slings and arrows loosed by idiots hit their impenetrable shield of good will and humor and bounce off harmlessly. I don't think that will happen due to what seems to have been some disagreement about the way this forum is run, but if they do it, they'll get two Memorial Day sales from me, which would no doubt pay for a month's banner ads and then some!  

I don't believe in burning bridges generally, but it seems people do. I'm not saying I'll never buy from CineSamples again. Do you suppose they're saying they'll never grace the pages of our benighted forum again? Say it ain't so!


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## Guy Rowland (May 22, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Thu May 22 said:


> "We don't need VIC. The bulk of our sales come from elsewhere."
> 
> You don't understand the implied offense from that statement and the subsequent withdrawal of advertising? They've made their point-why can't I make mine? Forget "reduced forum presence" (which I don't care about), it was a direct dis. Fair enough. I'm not on Facebook or Twitter or KVR or Gearslutz, I just hang here. If you don't get it, you don't get it, done.



No... don't get it really. I don't get why hassle elsewhere on the forum is any reflection on me I guess. Sure I'm a forum member, but I don't globally take on everything that gets said and done.

Jay makes a fair point. If it's come to the point where developers have to actually employ people just to deal with the crap they get here, then it really is a simple business decision - will the sales from this forum (and any others covered) exceed the cost of employing someone to manage their presence here? I don't think either "flouncing off" or "huff" are fair to that problem - I can describe my own leave of absence that way (though to be fair to myself for a brief moment, at least it was motivated by the wider issues of the forum not any personal slight), but not theirs. Sure, no doubt egos are bruised and pride is hurt, but it's a pretty hard-headed calculation every dev has to make as to whether or not its all worth their precious time.

I started another of my naive "let's see if we can figure something out" threads a while ago on the subject of developer relations re the issue of Commercial Announcments. I think the poll as to whether to more strictly moderate that subforum alone was split pretty much 50/50. And to be fair, the problems wouldn't all get solved by doing so. And since none of us want the Other problem - shorthanded as Northern Sounds - I can't see anything changing, and more and more devs will quietly or not-so-quietly withdraw.

Clarkus - must admit I've never had an install issue, though their current delivery method is pretty old school using RAR extraction. I've had a lot more problems with some of the other devs you mention! I'm sure I read, by the way, that CS are going the way of many others and having their own custom installer. Me... I dunno, I quite like the old school cos its low tech and pretty rugged, I seem to get so many installer problems. Anyway - glad to see that CS's CS (!) guided you through whatever fairly unusual problems you had.

[TANGENT] MichaelL - I have BBB full, and it's the best I own for sure. But it's so slow to work with, and I still have issues with the trumpets' bite. We've been waiting 18 months now for thier 2.0 release, that's certainly still a hope as long as its not vapourware.[/TANGENT]


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## NYC Composer (May 22, 2014)

@Clarkus- sorry you had trouble, but I own 4 Cinesamples products including DOW, and I never had a moment's trouble installing any of them.


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## NYC Composer (May 22, 2014)

@Guy- at what point do we agree to disagree? Shall we keep making the same points over and over to each other instead?


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## Guy Rowland (May 22, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Thu May 22 said:


> @Guy- at what point do we agree to disagree? Shall we keep making the same points over and over to each other instead?



Sure thing though I think many of the points in the past few posts have been expanded on usefully, and it's been useful to hear others input too. I don't understand - c'est la vie. Still love you of course


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## NYC Composer (May 22, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Thu May 22 said:


> NYC Composer @ Thu May 22 said:
> 
> 
> > @Guy- at what point do we agree to disagree? Shall we keep making the same points over and over to each other instead?
> ...



Of course! How could ya not love me, charming old codger that I am?? :wink: 

(Back atcha!)


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## Vovique (May 22, 2014)

clarkus @ Thu May 22 said:


> Re:
> 
> "they have been less inclined to answer/participate in questions on the forums ..."
> 
> ...



And I bought "Drums Of War" 3 days ago (just before the sale started) and had it installed in under a minute time. Installed on a Mac that is. And now think it's the right time to grab Hollywood Winds, which is a crazy hell of a bargain at $139 t the moment!


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## rottoy (May 22, 2014)

Finally went for CineWinds Pro, filling some voids in my woodwinds collection.

All praise for the ethnics, but the pearl of this collection so far, FOR ME, 
has been the bass clarinet.

Beautiful timbre, especially in the softer dynamics.

I have nothing but love for the Cinesamples crew. :D


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## Chriss Ons (May 22, 2014)

clarkus @ Thu 22 May said:


> I recently bought Drums of War from Cinesamples. I don't want to "Rage" on anyone, but I have to say installation was absurdly difficult. It took days. Tech support was patient, I will gave them that, and I am admittedly new to this whole game, so shame on me. But compared to installation of other libraries (NI, Spitfire, VSL, Sonic Couture...) it was nuts. They don't have phone support, so it was the game of "Okay I tried what you said and that didn't work. Any other ideas?"
> 
> So be advised ....
> 
> ...




I never found the installation procedure (which is generally well documented) of CS libraries to be _absurdly difficult, nuts, baffling. _

I'm not sure how posting a slew of superlatives like that - but not even a brief description of the actual problem itself - can be considered "helping eachother out"?

Be advised... about what?


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## Astronaut FX (May 22, 2014)

I can see where Larry is coming from. The CineSamples guys did pull up stakes and bail (which is their choice) but also chose to make the snide comment on the way out the door that we weren't their primary customer base, so (paraphrasing) screw you (all of you, not just the forumites who may have been abusive). Seems like poor business practice. 

Personally, it won't prevent me from buying their products, because otherwise, I've found their products fit my needs (well, in my case desires) and I've found their support to be among the best. But I could certainly relate to someone who was put off by how they handled it.

But I think I can give some insight as to what we're seeing here (and forgive the repeat because I've mentioned most of this before).

I believe that most sample library developers start off not as developers, but as musicians/composers. At some point they decide to venture into sample library development. And still, they're musicians/composers first, not necessarily good business men and women. 

And because they're start ups (and even after) they're typically small shops. Which means everyone has to wear lots of hats...even some that don't fit. When you connect the dots, you have musicians/composers (often with some degree of a flair for the dramatic - translation, thin skinned) wearing public relations/customer service hats, which often are not good fits for their personality types. 

Add in the fact that that they have a great deal of personal investment and pride in their product because they created it. So now you place them in a customer facing role, which may not be their strength to begin with, and you toss in some less than tactful customer challenges, and it's a recipe for hurt feelings.

I've seen it happen a great deal here. The CineSamples guys have vanished. The Spitfire guys have dialed back their presence. Troels is still here, but I've seen him display some hurt feelings and make a snipe or two as a result, but I salute him for hanging in there. I think he sees the value in doing so. I don't mean to call these folks out in a derogatory way, I'm simply citing them as examples of what I've seen.

The internet has changed how business is done, especially when it comes to marketing, public relations, and customer service. For a niche market like sample libraries, with a built in captive customer base like this discussion forum, I can't imagine making the business decision to not leverage the forum for the opportunity that it is.


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## paulmatthew (May 22, 2014)

Josquin @ Thu May 22 said:


> I never found the installation procedure (which is generally well documented) of CS libraries to be _absurdly difficult, nuts, baffling. _
> 
> I'm not sure how posting a slew of superlatives like that - but not even a brief description of the actual problem itself - can be considered "helping eachother out"?
> 
> Be advised... about what?



True Josquin. Drums of War are all Rar files and unpack the same as any other library not using Continuata. It isn't very difficult. Plus Cinesamples have videos that show you how to unpack and install their libraries , usually done by Dan. I've never had a problem installing a Cinesamples library to date and I now have installed 10 of them to date.

Larry and ryanstrong thanks for the added thoughts on the libraries (Cineorch and Randy's Celeste) that I asked about.


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## clarkus (May 22, 2014)

Paul Matthew & others, it seems my installation problems were anomalous & likely based on my inexperience. So let me re-frame. I had trouble installing DOW. You probably won't.

Again, their support was patient & they responded promptly. I sent them multiple screen shots, they made suggestions. We got there.

Someone in this thread wanted to know what went south. The detail would be mind-numbing to recount, but the installation did not immediately result in Kontakt being able to find the library (i.e an error message from Kontakt).That's where my correspondence with Cinesamples began.

I will say that they did not tell me it was a problem with Native Instruments and I should talk to NI, which I appreciated.


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## paulmatthew (May 22, 2014)

Glad you got it work. Kontakt libraries are confusing to install at first but the more you do it the better you get at it. Just a tip , get a separate hard drive to keep all Rar files on as a backup. If you need to reinstall they're at your disposal. Cinesamples support is some the best around. Drums of War was my first kontakt library and I was probably just as lost installing it. Believe me , it gets easier.


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## gpax (May 22, 2014)

clarkus @ Thu May 22 said:


> Paul Matthew & others, it seems my installation problems were anomalous & likely based on my inexperience. So let me re-frame. I had trouble installing DOW. You probably won't.
> 
> Again, their support was patient & they responded promptly. I sent them multiple screen shots, they made suggestions. We got there.
> 
> ...


If it’s any consolation, I had an awkward experience installing a new product I just bought from CS as well. Apart from the tedium of "what not to do" for anyone using Mavericks/Safari/Stuff-it, where I did all correctly but the last (which I did not see until later on their site), I still could not get things to work properly - even after starting the process over using UnRarX to extract everything. 

As it turns out, the instrument zip CS sent me was for a v1.1 download, and not the latest 1.5 instruments. It was an easy fix (for them) to send me the correct 1.5 instruments and multis, and hopefully they've remedied older links being sent out. I wish I could have been spared the needless troubleshooting based on their FAQs, but they were quick to respond and get this resolved, nevertheless. 

G


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## blougui (May 22, 2014)

Bad news,VAT applicable :( Quite rare for a non UE dev. (Hate VAT as it's the most unfair tax)

But yet grabbed Cineorch 

- Erik


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