# Hired to write a style you dislike/don't care about?



## EgM (Jun 24, 2019)

Hi Vi:C friends,

I'm sure many of you have been hired to compose a style you don't particularly like, of course that comes with the job, I know that. My usual styles are typical jRPG and melodic, think Final Fantasy, Golden Sun, Xenogears, etc.

One of my past jobs was composing the score for a Gameboy color game back in 2000, I actually liked that one because I started composing music for games a while before that era and I figured it would be the last time ever I'd ever write for 3 channels of melody and 1 noise channel like the NES era.

But now, I'm on this new project which is all Retro8Bit / EDM / Undertale-clone or some hybrid of it. I have to say, it's pretty challenging when you've never-ever listened to EDM, techno, hip hop, and the others. I got lots of rejected drafts mainly because it was either too real or not EDM enough, haha.

I still managed to stay on deadline and finished half the work. But did you end up liking the process? Would you do it again?

I'm just curious to hear about similar views.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 24, 2019)

I’m not composing as my primary source of income, so I will sometimes turn down a job if...

1) I don’t have enough experience in delivering a style the client wants, and I know I’d possibly deliver an inferior score.

2) I downright dislike the genre.

I like to cover a dynamic variety of genres, but sometimes it’s best to move on to something you’re more comfortable with. If you end up missing the mark, your odds of getting a callback are next to nothing.


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## EgM (Jun 24, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I’m not composing as my primary source of income, so I will sometimes turn down a job if...
> 
> 1) I don’t have enough experience in delivering a style the client wants, and I know I’d possibly deliver an inferior score.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your comment @Wolfie2112 

I don't compose as a primary income myself, I accepted the job because the client offered a more than acceptable deal. He was actually aware of my portfolio but for some reason really wanted me to score this game 

I don't think odds of getting a callback would be affected here since I'm already hired though.


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## chillbot (Jun 24, 2019)

I have to be able to write in any style that they ask for, but I hate it. There's no real way to collaborate or pass the buck to someone else. What I hate about it is how much I suck at it. Specifically genres like country and rap, for me personally. Actually no, the absolute worst is top-40 pop music that costs a million bucks to produce in real life and they want something that sounds just as produced.

It's kind of like, trying to learn to play every instrument and just getting frustrated with lack of time. You could spend a lifetime to really excel at any one genre, so trying to "fake" it is like learning to play twinkle twinkle reasonably well on guitar but it's the only song you know. Or something. Anyway I sure hope that anyone who is actually a legit rap or country musician/composer never hears any of the crap I attempt.


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## EgM (Jun 24, 2019)

chillbot said:


> I have to be able to write in any style that they ask for, but I hate it. There's no real way to collaborate or pass the buck to someone else. What I hate about it is how much I suck at it. Specifically genres like country and rap, for me personally. Actually no, the absolute worst is top-40 pop music that costs a million bucks to produce in real life and they want something that sounds just as produced.
> 
> It's kind of like, trying to learn to play every instrument and just getting frustrated with lack of time. You could spend a lifetime to really excel at any one genre, so trying to "fake" it is like learning to play twinkle twinkle reasonably well on guitar but it's the only song you know. Or something. Anyway I sure hope that anyone who is actually a legit rap or country musician/composer never hears any of the crap I attempt.



Well... Rap or Western is kinda extreme @chillbot, I'm not sure anyone would want any sane person to write that


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## givemenoughrope (Jun 24, 2019)

In my experience, with music that I don’t like it’s hard to hit the mark and harder to make changes that get closer to approval. I end up playing it safe and sort of tricking myself into liking some small element to get myself going. Don’t forget that most of the people who do a specific style often just do that style. If a client/library is asking you to be HZ or Dr. Dre one day and Burial and Ted Nugent the next they are just getting the library/tv version most likely. Just do your best I say.


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## EgM (Jun 24, 2019)

givemenoughrope said:


> In my experience, with music that I don’t like it’s hard to hit the mark and harder to make changes that get closer to approval. I end up playing it safe and sort of tricking myself into liking some small element to get myself going. Don’t forget that most of the people who do a specific style often just do that style. If a client/library is asking you to be HZ or Dr. Dre one day and Burial and Ted Nugent the next they are just getting the library/tv version most likely. Just do your best I say.



Thank you for your comment @givemenoughrope, Well that's exactly what I have been doing, trying my best. Thankfully it's working so far haha.

I have 3 weeks deadline for 4 other songs so I think I'll be fine but man do I wish for a standard gig next :D


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## Daryl (Jun 25, 2019)

For me there is a line that cannot be crossed. If I don't understand a style of music, that means I can't tell what is good, and what is not. Therefore, whilst I may be able to write in that style, I don't know whether or not what I've written is any good.

Other than that, I tend not to hate any music. Rather than not liking it, I just tend to be bored by it, but that also often means that I can write it really quickly, usually whilst watching Netflix, or trolling on a forum...!


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## Desire Inspires (Jun 25, 2019)

Why not collaborate?


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## Daryl (Jun 25, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> Why not collaborate?


Who?


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## Beluga (Jun 25, 2019)

I believe this is part of the job and every project that gets you out of your comfort zone makes you bigger as a composer. I'd say stick with it, bite yourself through it. It helps to learn to appreciate the music you are writing, listen to some stuff look until you find a group/artist you can relate to.


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## EgM (Jun 25, 2019)

Beluga said:


> I believe this is part of the job and every project that gets you out of your comfort zone makes you bigger as a composer. I'd say stick with it, bite yourself through it. It helps to learn to appreciate the music you are writing, listen to some stuff look until you find a group/artist you can relate to.



Bingo! That's exactly how I feel


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jun 25, 2019)

Sounds like being forced to have sex with a person you're really, really not into at all. I could never do it and would never want to.


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## Denkii (Jun 25, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Sounds like being forced to have sex with a person you're really, really not into at all. I could never do it and would never want to.


Prostitution ≠ rape


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## Beluga (Jun 25, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Sounds like being forced to have sex with a person you're really, really not into at all. I could never do it and would never want to.


I was young and needed the money!


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## Beluga (Jun 25, 2019)

More seriously.. you can only pick 2:

1. good money 
2. people you enjoy working with
3. music you enjoy writing

At least IME


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## Gerbil (Jun 25, 2019)

Depends how much money's involved.


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## EgM (Jun 25, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Sounds like being forced to have sex with a person you're really, really not into at all. I could never do it and would never want to.



Wow, talk about unrelated subjects... lol


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## jmauz (Jun 25, 2019)

Yep, EDM, Rap and modern Pop are the genres that drive me to drink. But it's my job, gotta be professional and all that crap.


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## GtrString (Jun 25, 2019)

Not gonna do it, I can't afford to lose my integrity. Sometime a "yes" too many costs too much.


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## Desire Inspires (Jun 25, 2019)

jmauz said:


> Yep, EDM, Rap and modern Pop are the genres that drive me to drink. But it's my job, gotta be professional and all that crap.



So why not collaborate with people who do those genres? They can do some parts, well most parts, and you fill in gaps as needed. Those genres always need someone with skills to replace programmed melodies with real playing. Much more easier to knock out than orchestral music, and pays better in many cases.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jun 25, 2019)

Denkii said:


> Prostitution ≠ rape



Not even sure if I wanna know what's that supposed to mean.


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## Calazzus (Jun 25, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Sounds like being forced to have sex with a person you're really, really not into at all. I could never do it and would never want to.


I applaud you and your standards.


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## Nico (Jun 25, 2019)

- Listen to the most famous tracks in that style
- Extract the most cliché elements, the ones you often find ridiculous and hate.
- Use all those cliché elements. Make a parody of it. Do not have shame, just make fun of it!

I used to teach French to English kids. They would never get the right pronunciation and would struggle a lot. But I always got the best results by telling them to just imitate and make fun of French people, no offense taken


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## Denkii (Jun 25, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Not even sure if I wanna know what's that supposed to mean.


Well in your (very uhh...creative) example you made it sound like there's no benefit. But he's getting money for the job so I think the comparison you made wasn't fair.


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## lux (Jun 25, 2019)

thats what collaborations are for. Much better than delivering a barely convincing style that you never experienced or enjoyed enough. There are hundreds small details that only people involved in a style can get thus they sound authentic.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jun 25, 2019)

Denkii said:


> Well in your (very uhh...creative) example you made it sound like there's no benefit. But he's getting money for the job so I think the comparison you made wasn't fair.



Oh, I see. Makes sense of course. I guess the key thing is: how much do you need the money. I should make a different analogy: writing in a style you really don't like and don't know very well is like cleaning toilets for a living. With your bare hands.


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## givemenoughrope (Jun 25, 2019)

I just cleaned my toilet and it didn’t feel like making dubstep. Maybe I did it wrong.


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## jneebz (Jun 25, 2019)

chillbot said:


> Actually no, the absolute worst is top-40 pop music that costs a million bucks to produce in real life and they want something that sounds just as produced.


OMG this.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jun 25, 2019)

givemenoughrope said:


> I just cleaned my toilet and it didn’t feel like making dubstep. Maybe I did it wrong.



It only works the other way around. Especially when it's dumbstep etc.


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## purple (Jun 25, 2019)

EgM said:


> Hi Vi:C friends,
> 
> I'm sure many of you have been hired to compose a style you don't particularly like, of course that comes with the job, I know that. My usual styles are typical jRPG and melodic, think Final Fantasy, Golden Sun, Xenogears, etc.
> 
> ...



In my experience you will see much more success and career growth if you are "the guy" to go to for a specific style, rather than trying to have a hand in every style and being lackluster at all of them. If you consistently turn out the best scores of a certain genre within your circle you will earn a more notable reputation and clients will know what they can expect from you. Most clients just want to be confident the individual they are hiring can get the job done, and the more consistent you are with the end product the easier it is for them to feel confident when they see your previous work or hear good things about you from others.

If you were hungry for a hot dog, where would you go? A huge buffet that sells a million different foods en masse and doesn't do any of them "the best", or the little hot dog shack on the corner that is rated #1 for hot dogs, and serves just hot dogs, fries, and drinks? I know if I were spending my money on a hot dog, I'd want to go to that shack that sells the best dogs in town and does that consistently rather than try my luck at whatever the buffet hot dogs taste like. (Ok, that was a bit of a weird analogy, but you get my point I hope?)

Actively seek out and find those projects which suit _you_ and _your sound_ rather than just fishing for what passes you by and hoping you get lucky with a client. Once you're bigger, have more stuff under your belt, have a lot of confidence from potential clients, then you can experiment and reach out for more diverse gigs.

It's also helpful because you might get work passed on to you if others don't feel comfortable in that style. If I had a friend I knew made really good synthscape stuff and I just got word of a gig writing that kind of music or was asked by someone two do a score like that, I'd pass it on to that friend because I know they can do it better than me also with the expectation they'll send the more orchestral stuff my way.

*TL:DR Clients want to know what they are going to get is good and consistent above all, and friends can trust in you as a sub for their gigs if they know exactly what you can deliver. Stick to a style, do it well, become "the guy" for that style. You may have less potential immediate pay right this instant in your life, but it will lead you to an actual career in the long run instead of just the occasional gig here and there.*


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jun 25, 2019)

I agree with the "go to guy" thing. Trying to do all kinds of stuff - all olympic, lofty and ultimately childish aspirations of "becoming a better composer" aside - in practice is more like "trying to scramble up as many low-tier jobs as possible". It's a crappy point of departure if you don't feel like you can walk the walk, confidently. If you can't "be the guy" and always struggle to clearly communicate to people that you're "the guy", where's that gonna get you?

I literally had this conversation just yesterday. The person I had contact with finally got me connected to the higher-up and the dude straight up sat down in front of me and said: "So, you're the guy?" My reply was "I'm the guy!" and we went from there. I don't wanna be in the situation where I hesitate to say that with confidence, and if I was trying to fumble my way around something that's just not my thing, I couldn't bring myself to do it.

Needless to say, I'm quaking in my boots right now, but that's always the case anyway, right.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 25, 2019)

I like every job. Seriously.

Now, what chillbot says about wanting expensive productions immediately and for no money is another thing.

But I like the challenge of paraphrasing and/or doing soundalikes.


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## chillbot (Jun 25, 2019)

Disagree with being "the guy" as it kind of sucks to be pigeonholed for one thing.

Super happy for all of you who maintain your integrity and don't sell yourself out. I have none of that.

But, I do learn a little bit more every time I venture into an uncharted genre. Not enough to really pull it off or be successful, but enough tidbits to tuck away for later. I would hate to limit myself to only genres that I enjoy.


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## Desire Inspires (Jun 26, 2019)

chillbot said:


> Disagree with being "the guy" as it kind of sucks to be pigeonholed for one thing.
> 
> Super happy for all of you who maintain your integrity and don't sell yourself out. I have none of that.
> 
> But, I do learn a little bit more every time I venture into an uncharted genre. Not enough to really pull it off or be successful, but enough tidbits to tuck away for later. I would hate to limit myself to only genres that I enjoy.



Yeah, it’s music. Do whatever feels good and whatever pays. Hire help if need be.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 26, 2019)

I've written extensively in the country and western, hip hop, and reggae genres...and I don't like much from any of them (there are exceptions, and I'm first to give huge kudos to many of the musicians and producers whom make those idioms their bread and butter.)

It's part of the job, one that leads to more and better jobs if you give it 100%.


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## Living Fossil (Jun 26, 2019)

givemenoughrope said:


> In my experience, with music that I don’t like it’s hard to hit the mark and harder to make changes that get closer to approval. I end up playing it safe and sort of tricking myself into liking some small element to get myself going. Don’t forget that most of the people who do a specific style often just do that style.



That's spot on.

The difficult thing with styles you don't like is the fact that you can't rely on your instincts. Maybe what you like personally isn't appreciated in that style etc.

On the long run, it's important to find a way to get jobs in styles you personally stand for.
If not, you will to some extent lose yourself as an artist.
And - also a bad thing - you will always be judged (and put in boxes) by the things you did.
Not by the things you wanted to do or the things you could have done really good (but didn't do).

Basically, you are a lucky one if you get hired for being you and not for replacing someone the client can't afford.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 26, 2019)

Sometimes one's distaste for a genre of music can yield interesting results. I've detested the grand majority of country music for all of my life (no offense and all respect to fans), but I learned a lot when I did my homework for the genre. I finally busted through my compositional inertia by focusing on what I actually* did* like about C and W: the guitar solos. Everything got built around that element, the chords, progression, modulations, etc. Once I'd written the solo part everything fell into place and I ended up doing a good job. There didn't even end up _being_ a solo in the song, which tells you just how useful the technique was in the grand scheme of things.

Of course, I haven't listened to it since lol


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 26, 2019)

purple said:


> If you were hungry for a hot dog, where would you go? A huge buffet that sells a million different foods en masse and doesn't do any of them "the best", or the little hot dog shack on the corner that is rated #1 for hot dogs, and serves just hot dogs, fries, and drinks? I know if I were spending my money on a hot dog, I'd want to go to that shack that sells the best dogs in town and does that consistently rather than try my luck at whatever the buffet hot dogs taste like. (Ok, that was a bit of a weird analogy, but you get my point I hope?)



The thing is, unless it's a big budget production, the client is going to go the buffet and buy a $1 hot dog instead of the quality hot dog down the street for $5.


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## EgM (Jun 26, 2019)

I should point out that this is for an indie videogame and not a movie or tv ad. In these kinds of videogames you have way more freedom on the styles, you can go hybrid or even create your own style so it's not like I'd have to make super credible EDM - The client cares about melody above all.

The client had browsed through my entire portfolio before asking me and I pointed out the fact that what he was asking for was totally outside my usual style and he still wanted me to do it.

Since then, I've finished another song and I have the feeling that it's gonna be an experience that's gonna be worth it for the future


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## Denkii (Jun 26, 2019)

And before you know it, your next banger will be a 4 to the floor aria because of what you can take away from this job.


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## Beluga (Jun 26, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> It only works the other way around. Especially when it's dumbstep etc.



Dubstep is actually pretty friggin' cool and I'm saying that coming from a classical education. Think it's beneath your high standards? Try knocking out some razor sharp synth sounds ultra aggressive from scratch. Good luck!


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## givemenoughrope (Jun 26, 2019)

Beluga said:


> Dubstep is actually pretty friggin' cool and I'm saying that coming from a classical education. Think it's beneath your high standards? Try knocking out some razor sharp synth sounds ultra aggressive from scratch. Good luck!



I mean there is no question that dubstep isn’t easy to make. (I got to the third round of rewrites for a Mountain Dew commercial...and then crickets...more like tinnitus.) But it’s more about production tricks, fm, digital saturation and extreme limiting. Oh, and making the most annoying sound you’ve ever heard. I say this as someone who also studied/studies music and listens to dub (similar in name only) everyday...and still the occasional drum and bass, jungle (they used to call it ‘jungle’ and they are again) and whatever else. I really should have collaborated with someone else on it.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jun 26, 2019)

Beluga said:


> Dubstep is actually pretty friggin' cool and I'm saying that coming from a classical education. Think it's beneath your high standards? Try knocking out some razor sharp synth sounds ultra aggressive from scratch. Good luck!



Don't know if it's beneath my high standards. What I do know is that it's a bunch of ridiculous sounding garbage. Besides, isn't Dubstep totally 2014, and thus ancient?


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## Dewdman42 (Jun 26, 2019)

I can't think of a single style that I would actually "hate" working on. Now listening is a different thing, I detest listening to country music and rap. But I could easily become enthralled into trying to write some, why not...its a musical challenge and its all music and at that point its all fun to work on...the word "hate" would not enter. 

That being said, certain styles, I realize I will not ever be able to convincingly do without forming more of a "love" for it and spending many thousands of hours perfecting it. Dubstep is a great example. I don't love it enough to spend so much time becoming a dubstep wizard. I don't hate it. I can't listen to it all day long, but I certainly do listen to it sometimes and marvel at what they are doing with soft synths and DAW's to produce those textures. But the engineering and producing skills required to do it well, require a certain commitment that I am not interested in. If I needed to add convincing and compelling dubstep to a film or something, I would absolutely try to get the help of a real dubstep master. That particular style definitely does require a high degree of expertise to be truly convincing, though these days you could easily layer some sampled bits here or there to give a dubstepy flavor to something else. (shrug)

I could probably get away with doing a country thing if I put my mind to it, but simply put, there are country masters that would do it a lot better because they love it and breath it every day and they would nuance that I would not bring without also learning to love it more. Same goes for Rap, maybe more so.

So what is the point? Well don't hate music! There is nothing to hate about any of it. But also there is something to be said for the fact that you kind of need to love a certain style or genre in order to make something truly compelling with it, otherwise it will most likely sound contrived.


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## Desire Inspires (Jun 26, 2019)

So if the money is right, just find some people to collaborate with. Splitting a nice sync fee to land a gig is worth it. You get to dabble in something new, you find someone else to work with for future projects, and you give the client what they want. 

Why try to put in 100% effort for a mediocre result when you can put in 50% and get a great result? Sometimes you have to think like a businessperson instead of a composer/musician. The client feels no shame hiring you to do a job. So why should you feel bad by outsourcing a portion of the work? Client only wants the end product. It’s a job after all.


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## EgM (Jun 26, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> So if the money is right, just find some people to collaborate with. Splitting a nice sync fee to land a gig is worth it. You get to dabble in something new, you find someone else to work with for future projects, and you give the client what they want.
> 
> Why try to put in 100% effort for a mediocre result when you can put in 50% and get a great result? Sometimes you have to think like a businessperson instead of a composer/musician. The client feels no shame hiring you to do a job. So why should you feel bad by outsourcing a portion of the work? Client only wants the end product. It’s a job after all.



I almost did it, but the current contract and lack of time would cause too many problems. But I will definitely do it next time.


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## Beluga (Jun 26, 2019)

I agree that "not hating" a general music style (but seeing it as an opportunity to grow and discover) OR collaborating are the best ways to go.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jun 26, 2019)

Life's to short not to hate.

Seriously - it's not as if one sits around and goes: let me pick a musical style for me to hate. It's just a natural reaction a person has. Don't you have that? Some stuff smells disgusting, some sounds drive you up a wall, etc. That's normal.

For me, it seems that when people arrange sounds in a certain way, the result can make me feel really uncomfortable, irritated or angry. Dumbstep is a good example. Actually pretty much all "electronic music". EDM and fucking synths, it all sucks. HipHop is another thing. It's disgusting.

A tongue drum on the other hand always makes me smile, for no particular reason. It's just a reaction.


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## Henu (Jun 27, 2019)

I came to read this topic due to having been in this situation for most of my career- in fact, tackling this is what's making us the professionals we are, if you ask me. Of course we do our own preferred styles the best, but one of the very important aspects of the job is to be able to do _whatever needed_. And personally, I love to learn more new stuff every day. You don't want to eat pizza for every meal either!

However, this


jmauz said:


> Yep, EDM, Rap and modern Pop are the genres that drive me to drink. But it's my job, gotta be professional and all that crap.



was something that cracked me up loud. Ironically enough, just a year ago I was in a situation I needed to make EDM, Rap _and_ a modern Pop song for a certain project. I am in no way a "modern producer" nor I don't do any of these styles voluntarily. My skills and tendencies are more in the cinematic and quirky, cartoonish and dark orchestral/ ethnic stuff and pretty much anything that involves either vocals or loops is not really my cup of tea- especially for what it comes to so-called "modern" music.

I took it as a fun challenge for both composing and production, because they were all meant to fit a certain context and a have a lot of tongue-in-cheek with them. I just needed to make them sound believable, but in a context that is completely fucked up. The game has a lot of bad humour, so the more we could include that into the music, the better. As I'm not a lead singer _per se_, we had quite a blast with a co-worker doing the mumbling rap and my awesome friend (and the only hired musician for this project) providing the female vocal parts. Everything else was performed by yours truly (with a couple of adlib vocal lines from my son) with some additional percussions and background mumblings from a colleague. And I wouldn't post these here if I wasn't somehow, in a very perverted way, kind of proud of these. :D

If you're interested to hear how they came out to be, here is the result.

EDM:


RAP:


POP:


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## Beluga (Jun 27, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Life's to short not to hate.
> 
> Seriously - it's not as if one sits around and goes: let me pick a musical style for me to hate. It's just a natural reaction a person has. Don't you have that? Some stuff smells disgusting, some sounds drive you up a wall, etc. That's normal.
> 
> ...



Well, if you hate that music so much you shouldn't indeed write it. I personally don't hate any music style. I don't care much for hip-hop but there are still some artists I enjoy very much, same goes for any other style. I had to write a hip-hop track for a trailer, the client had it requested by his producer and even he was unsure about the idea of using hip-hop. I told him it was a great idea and took it as a challenge, poked around in what I enjoyed most in hip-hop tracks, listened to some artists I enjoy and the client loved it. Sure it's not reinventing the genre but it's still a pretty cool track. So what? Blocked my career path forever now? Sold my soul for a nice budget?

I think broadening your musical horizon is beneficial if you open up to it. If you think everything is crap it's not such a great ground to learn how to appreciate a new musical style. Every style has endless variations you can navigate.

I'd be curious to know if you are making a living from music? I do and have been for quite a while and IME it is rare that you will only get hired for what you enjoy most/do best.

It's however of course and I agree with this a great solution to collaborate and I have done this as well a lot in the past with great results. It has its own challenges though. It's often not as simple as passing along a deal and getting the music back. :D


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jun 27, 2019)

Beluga said:


> I'd be curious to know if you are making a living from music?



No, certainly not. If I gave up my other venture, I couldn't get by just with doing music. That's key here - it was very important to me to not have to rely on making music. I'm in a great spot I never would be in if I invested the same amount of sacrifice and energy in building a full time music thing instead. It just doesn't add up.

When I look at some of my former fellow uni classmates how they scramble to get the chance to do another one of those corporate explainer videos ... I'd be miserable. I have the feeling that if I relied on music 100%, I'd grow to hate it eventually and that thought terrifies me. My karate instructor is kinda the same. Dude is a highly ranked expert and lives and breathes the stuff. But the dojo is a non-profit association with a small member count and always will be, because in his eyes, that's the only way how you can do true karate. He's a big-time auditor by profession. Couldn't do his main gig either, but it works for him.

I guess a big part of it truly is whether your livelihood really depends on always making music. If it does, learning to appreciate all kinds of music and becoming competent in them certainly climbs the ladder as far as priorities go. My plate is full. I don't see the benefit of making myself like something I genuinely dislike. In German, there's the term "schönhören". It basically means "making yourself listen to something until you believe you like it". That kinda seems to be the vibe here, a little bit.

The next thing I got lined up, I have a solid 4 months to get done, budget is there, should be fun, and the pay is justifiable. Now we're talking. Any time it's not like that - go talk to someone who has no choice. That's how I look at it and I like to have that kind of liberty.


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## ehrenebbage (Jun 27, 2019)

At first, I was embarrassed to try styles that weren't in my wheelhouse. Then I realized that my wheelhouse was a tiny little shack and if I was going to make a living I'd better add some new rooms. Once I started doing it I realized how much fun it is to spend a week or two digging in to something totally outside my comfort zone. I genuinely love most music and it felt liberating to get paid to learn and explore, with no real concern for how it might reflect on me as an 'artist'. I started to think of myself as more of a craftsman than an artist and decided that if someone asked me to build them a table I'd try my best, whether I'd never built one before or I'd already built hundreds of them.

I cringe when I listen to some of the work I've done. It's absolutely awful, and I sometimes wonder if I made the wrong choice to generalize instead of specialize. Ultimately, I think my willingness to try is one of the things that has kept me employed...I'm certainly not the best at anything, but the folks who hire me know that their requests will be met with genuine enthusiasm and I think that's why they keep coming back.


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## halfwalk (Jun 27, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Life's to short not to hate.





> it all sucks.





> it's a bunch of ridiculous sounding garbage





> It's disgusting.



Is everything okay? Do you need a hug?


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jun 27, 2019)

halfwalk said:


> Is everything okay? Do you need a hug?



Now that was needlessly stupid of you.


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## halfwalk (Jun 28, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Now that was needlessly stupid of you.



https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-practice/201301/cognitive-restructuring


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jun 28, 2019)

halfwalk said:


> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-practice/201301/cognitive-restructuring



Oh, we got ourselves a remote diagnostician here. Grow up, Peter Pan.


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## jmauz (Jun 28, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> So why not collaborate with people who do those genres?



If there's time and budget, I do. Which means almost never (see below).



> pays better in many cases.



Interesting. So far in my experience all clients I've had who ask for contemporary styles almost never have much of a budget. Well scratch that. I was involved in one project for a very prominent modern pop singer (hint: her name is a font) but there were about 10 other producers so the decent budget they had was split up too much to make it worth my time. Not to mention how difficult everyone was to work with. And of course it was a buyout.

Conversely almost all of the orchestral work I do pays very well. If I didn't know how to orchestrate my composing career would be going nowhere fast financially.


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## givemenoughrope (Jun 28, 2019)

Henu said:


> I came to read this topic due to having been in this situation for most of my career- in fact, tackling this is what's making us the professionals we are, if you ask me. Of course we do our own preferred styles the best, but one of the very important aspects of the job is to be able to do _whatever needed_. And personally, I love to learn more new stuff every day. You don't want to eat pizza for every meal either!
> 
> However, this
> 
> ...




Modern music geniuzzzzz right here ^^^

You may have dethroned Ween, my friend


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## EgM (Jun 28, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Oh, we got ourselves a remote diagnostician here. Grow up, Peter Pan.



Oh lighten up Jimmy boy.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jun 28, 2019)

EgM said:


> Oh lighten up Jimmy boy.


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## Saxer (Jun 28, 2019)

I like style hopping. I did a lot of commercial spot music in the 90/00s and styles changed every day. From Drum&Bass to Schuhplattler to Bollywood to Orchestra. Writing songs in James Bond style or Country or BigBand. Ska, Vangelis, Gregorian choir, Rock, Funk, Chillout, Jazz ballad, Kraftwerk... Sure, you can't get deep into a style like someone who grew up with it but I really like to find the essentials of a genre. And if I don't like the music it mostly changes when I get deeper into it. At least a bit.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jun 28, 2019)

Saxer said:


> Schuhplattler



You're a truly fearless man!


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## Saxer (Jun 28, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> You're a truly fearless man!


I still have the sample instrument with a whole keyboard of me jumping around tapping and clapping on my thighs!


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