# Trailer Music and the Loudness War



## Jeff Tymoschuk (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi everyone. I'm writing a bunch of trailer cues, and came to a bit of a conceptual crossroads. The pieces are pretty sonically full, with big loud orchestra and choir along with big drums (Stormdrum & Cinetoms). 

I've got the mixes to the point that I'm happy with them, and have started on the mastering. I'm using a variety of mastering plugins depending on how they sound on each piece, mostly the TC Master X3, Brickwall Limiter and MD3, and occasionally Ozone 3.

So my question is this: When mastering for trailer libraries, do you try and milk every last possible decibel out of the piece, or do you live with it being a little quieter overall, but keep some of the dynamics intact? 

I know that these days the Loudness Wars state that music should sound like eight college kids stuffed into a Honda Civic looks, but if the end result is that it's going to have to be mixed with dialogue and fx, more dynamic range would seem to be the way to go. I've AB'd the pieces with pieces in similar styles from film scores and other libraries, and while my frequency spectrum seems to be in the same ballpark, my pieces are slightly quieter in general (nothing drastic, maybe 2 - 3 dB). When I've tried to give them a little more boost in the mastering stage, it does tend to flatten out the dynamics and remove some of the punch of the drums (as you might expect).

I know that a bunch of people on the forums here do a lot of trailers, I'm curious how you approach it.

Thanks.

Jeff


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## Lex (Nov 30, 2008)

Do whatever is more pleasing to your ear....cause it really doesnt matter, trailer houses r gonna squish the hell out of them anyhow in the end...

Depends on a track I guess...if u have a quiet intro and nice build untill the last 15 sec, then keeping dynamics is a must...

aLex


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## Stephen Baysted (Nov 30, 2008)

Agree with Lex; preserve the dynamic integrity and peak in the normal range.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Nov 30, 2008)

+1


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## Synesthesia (Nov 30, 2008)

Most libraries have their own mastering 'style' so don't master the tracks, just mix them with a nice amount of leeway left for the library to master themselves.

cheers,

Paul


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## Niah (Nov 30, 2008)

I agree with what has been said

also, try Inflator


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## poseur (Nov 30, 2008)

Jeff Tymoschuk @ Sat Nov 29 said:


> I've AB'd the pieces with pieces in similar styles from film scores and other libraries, and while my frequency spectrum seems to be in the same ballpark, my pieces are slightly quieter in general (nothing drastic, maybe 2 - 3 dB). When I've tried to give them a little more boost in the mastering stage, it does tend to flatten out the dynamics and remove some of the punch of the drums (as you might expect).


agree with others:
if it sounds good, and the levels aren't outrageously low,
maintain the dynamic range for others to match 
to their library (& eventually, likely, f••• up: ha!).

what you said, though, both interests & confuses me:
were you speaking (in dB) about peak-levels?,
as average-level (or, "apparent volume") is a different thang.....
???
best,
d


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## Jeff Tymoschuk (Nov 30, 2008)

Thanks for the replies, you've pretty much confirmed what I was thinking. I'll give the Inflator a shot (gotta love the 15 day demos) and see what I come up with.

Oh, and I was referring to the average level being quieter, the peaks were plenty loud enough.


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## Ed (Nov 30, 2008)

Listen to Lex he is the trailer man/genie. o-[][]-o


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## poseur (Nov 30, 2008)

Jeff Tymoschuk @ Sun Nov 30 said:


> Oh, and I was referring to the average level being quieter, the peaks were plenty loud enough.


well, a 2-3dB difference between _average volumes_ is pretty insignificant;
i shouldn't worry, if i were you, in that case.
d


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## JonFairhurst (Nov 30, 2008)

I just saw the new Bond film last night. The trailers were cranked to 11. When the Lion roared at the start of the actual film, it was quiet and wimpy by comparison. Some people in the audience actually "meowed."


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## rJames (Nov 30, 2008)

Virtually, the only way you are going to compete in the trailer business with orchestra and choir is doing it live. Certainly there are exceptions. But in the really big stuff (big movies, big action, big budgets)...its live for the most part. Of course, you could be the exception.

Live orchestra is what separates the big guys from you and the other 10,000 of us who all have great orchestral libraries in a box.

If you are submitting the music to an established library, then it just needs to be great material. It is the form and the sonic impact that is most important in trailers. 

Personally, I think it is a good idea to present a cue in a "finished" form in some cases. But you'll need an unmastered version.


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## Jeff Tymoschuk (Dec 4, 2008)

Hi folks, thanks for all the replies. Here's what I ended up coming up with. I also did mixes without choir and with the big drums turned up, but this is the main piece.

[mp3]http://greenwiremusic.com/jeffmp3/OneWillRise.mp3[/mp3]


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## Lex (Dec 4, 2008)

rJames @ Mon Dec 01 said:


> Virtually, the only way you are going to compete in the trailer business with orchestra and choir is doing it live. Certainly there are exceptions. But in the really big stuff (big movies, big action, big budgets)...its live for the most part. Of course, you could be the exception.
> 
> Live orchestra is what separates the big guys from you and the other 10,000 of us who all have great orchestral libraries in a box.



Im sorry but this is simply not true..and the way you said it sounds so off putting for anyone interested in gettin into trailer buiss...what will get the track licenced is a really good arrangment first and foremost, hooky idea and then the overall "sound" (punchy, but clear and as big as you can make it)...

While its true that big boys do it live all the time, there is a also a fact that there are dozens of live cues out there that never ever got licenced...live will make your tracks sound better, it will enable you to charge way more for the licence...but it will NOT separate you from anyone in trailer world..if your track simply isnt IT...

aLex


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## Lex (Dec 4, 2008)

Jeff Tymoschuk @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> Hi folks, thanks for all the replies. Here's what I ended up coming up with. I also did mixes without choir and with the big drums turned up, but this is the main piece.
> 
> [mp3]http://greenwiremusic.com/jeffmp3/OneWillRise.mp3[/mp3]



Cute track....my advice...add more perc in the back end...or rework them to get that big ass trailer "last 15sec"...dynamics r cool but your perc never really "explodes"...it just kinda stays in the back pluckin away like a shy boy..

Oh...and when you can...get some new brass samples =)

thnx for sharin

aLex


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## rJames (Dec 4, 2008)

Lex @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> rJames @ Mon Dec 01 said:
> 
> 
> > Virtually, the only way you are going to compete in the trailer business with orchestra and choir is doing it live. Certainly there are exceptions. But in the really big stuff (big movies, big action, big budgets)...its live for the most part. Of course, you could be the exception.
> ...



I agree with everything you've said aLex. My point was that if you write great music, you may want to try to submit it to the big boys who, more and more, are recording cues by outside artists.

I think you may agree that first and foremost is NOT the arrangement, hooky idea and overall sound but getting it into the ears of an editor. That is the single most important and toughest part of the job.

I never said that live gets it used. You misread my post. Plenty of live material unused as well as plenty of great material never heard.

Well, my glass is half full and so I will work harder to be noticed among the 10,000. Hopefully, Jeff will see it that way.

I admit that I am no expert. But that really is my opinion.

And the last bit of advice (which you may have missed, aLex) is:



> If you are submitting the music to an established library, then it just needs to be great material. It is the form and the sonic impact that is most important in trailers.
> 
> Personally, I think it is a good idea to present a cue in a "finished" form in some cases. But you'll need an unmastered version.


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## nomogo (Dec 4, 2008)

Always check with the library that you are submitting to, as many prefer to do their own mastering.


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## PolarBear (Dec 5, 2008)

That's what I would say. Mastering per se could only be done, if the final media is clear IMHO. So I'd not kill things that I couldn't revert and save some dynamics. If the client wants it loud, you coudl still crank the hell out of it then.


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## PolarBear (Dec 8, 2008)

Hehe... have a look at this page:
http://www.turnmeup.org/index.shtml

"Turn Me Up!™ is a non-profit music industry organization campaigning to give artists back the choice to release more dynamic records."


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## Hannes_F (Dec 9, 2008)

Jeff Tymoschuk @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> Hi folks, thanks for all the replies. Here's what I ended up coming up with. I also did mixes without choir and with the big drums turned up, but this is the main piece.
> 
> [mp3]http://greenwiremusic.com/jeffmp3/OneWillRise.mp3[/mp3]



Note to the admins: This jcf player makes a lot of clicks and distortion here, even jitter which is a surprise. While answering I saw the mp3 link in its original form and copied that into my browser. Then it plays back without difficulties, so I don't think it is the bandwidth.


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## _taylor (Dec 9, 2008)

A quote from the guys who own Extreme Music:

"So should composers master their material before sending it in? "No thank you," says Russell. "We want to hear how good your track is, not how loud it is! We master each disc on a project-by-project basis."


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## Jeff Tymoschuk (Dec 9, 2008)

Hey guys, thanks for all the comments. The library this piece is for has me do my own mastering, other ones have had me submit unmastered pieces. 

Jeff


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