# How to afford all that?



## MrJul (Feb 1, 2018)

Hi there,

I would really like to know how I should afford all the stuff: good monitor system (5.0 or 5.1 needed?), room, acoustics, computer, DAW, audio interface, libraries, synthesizer, controller, ...
Luckily I am into "commercial" music so that there is some of that already available but I can not really imagine how to get really good quality in film music without some big investments. What was your way into the industry?

Thanks in advance. 

– MrJul


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## jonathanparham (Feb 1, 2018)

MrJul said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I would really like to know how I should afford all the stuff: good monitor system (5.0 or 5.1 needed?), room, acoustics, computer, DAW, audio interface, libraries, synthesizer, controller, ...
> Luckily I am into "commercial" music so that there is some of that already available but I can not really imagine how to get really good quality in film music without some big investments. What was your way into the industry?
> ...


I stupidly got into to debt with credit cards. Then I got a small business loan for 10K for 3.5 years. Why I didn't have sense to do this first; I don't know. It would have made my early career and marriage much less stressful. Now I would recommend to borrow, rent, or get it for free. MAKE that sound good before you spend more money. Use what you got till you get what you need. Unless clients are sitting in your space, don't get a lot of fluff.

Not having is going to make you work harder to get your ideas out. Also, another composer told me its about your heart and mind then the gear.


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## Matt Riley (Feb 1, 2018)

The best advice I heard when I started on this journey was "use the gear you already have." Then slowly add on only after you truly understand the limitations of your gear. You can actually do a ton of things with a laptop and an app like Logic X which comes with thousands of sounds, synths, loops, effects.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 1, 2018)

I started out just like Matt. As jobs came along, I'd use that money (or a portion of it) to buy new essential gear. I still work this way. For example, a few years ago a gig was paying me $6K, so used half of that to buy a new MacBook Pro. So in other words, make your studio pay for itself. When you are just starting out, the chances of you landing a big film score are very remote...start small and work your way up.


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## J-M (Feb 1, 2018)

Learn to use what you already have. I think I've bought every piece of software/samples during a sale...and I'm always saving for music related stuff. It's a slow progress since I'm only able to work during the summer breaks and i currently don't make any money with music...slow, but steady.


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## synthpunk (Feb 1, 2018)

Hard Work & patience!, Dedicate your life to your art and family. Times in my life I have had three jobs, eaten scraps, slept in a hammock on tour, work hard for it and it will come. Nothing is ever easy nor should it be. It will prepare you for life and then you pass on the ethic to your sons/daughters so they can do the same.

As someone else said, never go into big debt for gear. If you can pay it back in a couple months and it helps your credit rating, sure. But avoid big debt, it is a trap and can lead to ruin including divorce and bankruptcy.


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## Maxime Luft (Feb 1, 2018)

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/important-all-vi-freebie-contributions-here.27876/


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## Saxer (Feb 1, 2018)

I knew some guys over the years who started to build a commercial studio using bank credits. Two asked me to join in. I didn't. Both busted. One sold his parents house.

Buy stuff when you can afford it. You don't need a lot today. If you have 'commercial' jobs that need equipment to be done: collaborate.


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## wst3 (Feb 1, 2018)

My own path was slightly counter to the good advice given, and if I had it to do all over again, well I have no idea!

I had a day job, and I had a small business doing studio maintenance, and later a little bit of studio design. The day job paid for my cost of living - rent, car payment, groceries, etc. The second job paid for the studio. And a lot of the original studio gear was cast-offs from my clients, gear that did not work, so I bartered with my clients, repaired the gear, sold some, kept some, and slowly started to build a studio.

At this time it was not an inexpensive proposition. Some may think it is expensive to build a studio today, but it isn't. Tape decks and consoles were a lot more expensive to purchase and maintain than a computer. But I digress.

Anyway, after about four years I had hit a bit of a wall, so I bought some gear that was somewhat essential on a credit card. Big mistake, as I ended up paying quite a bit for that gear<G>!

But it brought in some work, and the recording work, along with the studio maintenance allowed me to get out from under fairly quickly. So it was a good, if not somewhat expensive lesson.

When I reached the next wall I went to the bank with a business plan. I took out a small business loan, made some purchases, and was able to take on slightly larger projects. Except that about this time the bottom dropped out of the studio maintenance business. I hate it when that happens. This was around the time of the ADAT and Mackie mixers and other low priced gear, and suddenly studio rates dropped from around $100/hour to half that because all these little studios were charging $15, or maybe $30 per hour. Big guys were caught short! I was caught short.

So I started doing non-studio projects, churches, theatres, still fun stuff, but not studios. And I did live rigs for local bands. It was enough, and I reached the end of the loan with my skin intact. I'm pretty sure there were months where I had to pay the business loan out of the personal account, but that happens.

Now all this time I was also working on my composition/production skills. That was the end game, pretty much from the start. I enjoy building studios, I enjoy designing gear, I even enjoy (on a limited scale) live sound and studio maintenance. But the goal was to build a studio that was suitable for composing and producing music for advertising.

That meant a tape deck and a bunch of hardware synthesizers and samplers. And about this time computers started sneaking into studios. The Mac was the clear leader, but as a contrarian by nature I bought an Amiga.

It was really pretty cool. I'd stripe the tape with time code and lock the computer to the tape, and all the MIDI stuff never had to be recorded until mixdown. Except now a 16 channel mixer was - how do you say it - somewhat inadequate.

This was one of the major detours that, had this been my sole source of income, would have buried me. I decided to build my own console. I still have the carcass in my basement, with the dream of someday finishing it. But it turned out to be a really big project, and right around then I met my late wife. She claims she knew we would get married in three weeks, I don't know if I believe her, but it was pretty close to love at first sight. And we got married, and started a family, and then she got sick.

I swear that whole chapter happened overnight, but it was actually a little over 18 years. And for the last three most of my music and audio engineering activity took a back seat to life. Not something you can plan for.

And this is exactly why debt is not your friend. Had I not reached a point where the studio was (largely) paying for itself I'd be in a real pickle now. I had neither the time nor the energy to take on outside projects after she got sick. The universe was a little bit kind to me on that count, my last hardware design project had wrapped up not too long before things got bad. That's about the only nice thing the universe has done for me lately, but I'll take it.

Anyway, my point, and I must have one or I wouldn't still be typing, my point is if you want to do this you will have to make an initial investment. If you can do it without resorting to credit cards by all means do so. Because when you are just starting out I don't imagine too many banks taking you seriously.

So bite the bullet, and use consumer credit to get the stuff you ABSOLUTELY have to have. At a minimum I think that includes a keyboard, a decent computer, a decent audio interface, a handful of software tools, and good (not great) monitors. If you are going to record add a good microphone to that collection. There are tons of free plugins and libraries that will make it easier to get started.

Accept that you are going to pay through the nose for this stuff. Assume that you won't see a penny of income until you have paid the loan sharks off - if you do better than that so much the better. Just assume the worst. And get it over with.

And from then on in use credit wisely, and aim to only use income to grow your studio. It probably won't happen that way, life is seldom perfect, but use that as your plan. If you can wrangle a business line of credit get one, then you have complete control over your debts. If not then wait till the last possible minute and use a business loan to make the leaps from one plateau to the next.

All aspects of the entertainment industry are brutal. So plan for the worst. Work two jobs, forgo the fancy new car, you know the drill. If this is what you want to do then you need to commit to it.

I'll wager (well no, I won't actually, but that's a different tale) that you will build your business to the point where it can support itself pretty quickly. You'll still be working two jobs, but sleep is over rated. It's that leap from self supporting business to sole source of income that is difficult. And it too can be realized.

Which brings me to the more insidious trap, and I've seen this sink more than a few composers and especially studio owners. Us old folks call it "buying things twice". Sure, you REALLY need a good ribbon microphone to record this vocalist. It's the only way. But a good ribbon microphone costs like a couple grand, and there is this really cool looking microphone at the big box store (or online, pick your poison) for under $100.

Here's the thing, that $100 microphone might get you through this upcoming session. In which case, assuming you are charging enough, it's ok to buy a throw-away. But you better believe it is a throw-away. And sometimes throwing away even as little as $100 can really hurt.

I'd love to say I've never done this. Really! But I had a session coming up, and when I finished my planning I realized I was going to be short a couple of channels of compression, and a couple microphones, and some other odds and ends.

The smart side of me rented the microphones I needed. It killed my margin on the project, but it was still the right thing to do.

The stupid side of me went to the local music store and bought not one, but two Alesis 3630 compressors. For those that never heard this lovely device it is AWFUL. There is no redeeming quality, it is money down the drain. These are probably the only two studio devices I've ever thrown out.

I used them for that project, but they fought me every step of the way, making what should have been fairly simple tasks quite difficult. The same things apply to plugins and libraries. There are reasons some software tools command high prices while others don't. The thing is, and this will bite most of us at least a couple times, there are also some really amazing inexpensive plugins and libraries.

But how the heck do you figure out what's what when most of them offer limited, or no demo versions? You have to trust others. Nasty business!

TL;DR
1) Avoid consumer debt at all costs. There are ways to use debt constructively, learn them.
2) Accept that it will cost money to get started. Keep that sum as small as possible.
3) Don't buy twice! That's money down the drain. 
4) Avoid the no-brainers and especially the "gotta have its" When the dust settles you'll discover that maybe it wasn't quite as essential as you first thought.
5) Take advantage of sales when you can, but do not let sales rule your purchasing decisions.
6) Figure out who among those that has traveled this path before you have similar tastes and can be trusted. And listen to them! (there are quite a few here in that category!)
7) The two things you should spend the most on are your education, and your critical listening space.

If this is what you want to do you can do it. Just be smart about the money side of things.


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## Paul Grymaud (Feb 1, 2018)

This is the ultimate solution. Please, first try the other solutions


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## Paul Grymaud (Feb 1, 2018)

Here is someone who prefers acoustic instruments. 
But it costs more than all available VST's...


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## Saxer (Feb 2, 2018)

Paul Grymaud said:


> Here is someone who prefers acoustic instruments.
> But it costs more than all available VST's...


But acoustic instruments last longer.


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## AdamKmusic (Feb 2, 2018)

I used my student loan and any money I’ve made from projects to invest back into my libraries/monitors etc


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## synthpunk (Feb 2, 2018)

That is pretty bad advice and actually may be fraudulent ?



AdamKmusic said:


> I used my student loan and any money I’ve made from projects to invest back into my libraries/monitors etc


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## Jaap (Feb 2, 2018)

When starting out I had also different jobs and put aside every month 10 till 20% to invest in equipment and only spended that money. I still do the same 2 decades later. I still put aside around 10% of all my income and use that for upgrading, expanding etc.
Also the world of samples goes quick, but still there is a lot of awesome stuff that was made a decade ago with for example East West Symphonic Orchestra (not the Hollywood series). You still can do amazing stuff with it. You don't need persé all the latest stuff. Skills and good craftmanship comes first, the gear will enhance it and not the other way around in my opinion


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## AdamKmusic (Feb 2, 2018)

synthpunk said:


> That is pretty bad advice and actually may be fraudulent ?


No? In the UK you get a mantience loan to help cover rent etc and living in general. Combined with my overdraft I used them to help buy my first libraries/monitor/computers etc

It’s not advise, OP asked for how for our ways into the industry and that’s mine.


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## merlinhimself (Feb 2, 2018)

This is definitely one thing that always runs through my head. I've made wish lists of gear thinking, oh its expensive but not TOO bad, but then I think about all the sample libraries I would want/need and feel hopeless haha


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## MA-Simon (Feb 2, 2018)

I mean... not to brag or anything but I am 29 and already have everything I could need, ever. Like... everything.
Expensive Computer, Expensive Keyboard, and most Libraries.

I started with ~21 with Cubase and halion Symphonic Orchestra.
Now I have the complete Spitfire Symphonic Collection, The complete Cinematic Studio Series, the complete Ark Series etc. etc. (My Kontakt library tab is like |--------------------------------------------------------------------|)

It just happens over time, and well... less video games, and more samples? _(Edit: Scratch that, My Steam library has surpassed 500 titles...)_

It was not easy though... but if you have a steady job, spending 4-500€ a month on samples is not that complicated.

But uh... I don't really make a lot of music any more? So It all is wasted on me.


My advice would be contrary to: "Use what you have."
You either make shit using shit libraries, ore you make good sounding shit, with great libraries. There is a difference.

Edit:
Just to add, there is a difference between making money with music and making a career with music.
If you want to just earn money, your music does not have to be super great, because most clients are uncaring. It has to sound good, and include certain Instruments which go umpa umpa umpa umpa etc. That is were good libraries will help. Because they will remember the big cinema score sound, but not the actual melodies involved. There is a very narrow window of stuff, you can and have to do.

Most tracks from new composers feature way to much "I want to make music like this!"-stuff, like medieval game soundtracks and experimental epic soundscapes and all arround intricate string stuff. Reality is: _Nobody will pay you for that_, if you do not have contacts and are extremely lucky. Libraries will not help you there.


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## fixxer49 (Feb 2, 2018)

MrJul said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I would really like to know how I should afford all the stuff: good monitor system (5.0 or 5.1 needed?), room, acoustics, computer, DAW, audio interface, libraries, synthesizer, controller, ...
> Luckily I am into "commercial" music so that there is some of that already available but I can not really imagine how to get really good quality in film music without some big investments. What was your way into the industry?
> ...


I scored my first feature film using exactly this: an Alesis QS8.1 (stock sounds) and a Korg D1600 + a pair of shitty Sony DJ headphones. (I bet a lot of folks here have similar stories.)

I suggest watching the Deane Ogden video that’s been making the rounds on this forum. Just go for it!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 2, 2018)

MA-Simon said:


> If you want to just earn money, your music does not have to be super great, because clients are dumb.



That's not a fair statement. I would say you could "fool" clients with decent orchestral VI's, but I would be cautious calling them dumb.


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## MA-Simon (Feb 2, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I would say you could "fool" clients with decent orchestral VI's, but I would be cautious calling them dumb.


It's not so much fooling them, because they very well know that it is done with VI's. (They are not actually dumb, sorry for using that word before, but numb and uncaring maybe?) Most of the time all that is required is a certain flavor of sounds (That does in no way mean that I encourage lazy writing). But what most clients want is a certain sound and instrumentation rather then specific melodies. Decent VI's will get you there.

Maybe I am beeing to defeatist here. But the number of times a client has hinted to me they they would rather license that random 49$ track from Library XY then employ my services for an original track is far to high. 
Especially for commercial music, browsing a library is so much more comfortable for video editors, because they cut to beat and such. So most requests are like this: "Make it similar, but somehow different, because we need exlusive rights etc."


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## kitekrazy (Feb 2, 2018)

MrJul said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I would really like to know how I should afford all the stuff: good monitor system (5.0 or 5.1 needed?), room, acoustics, computer, DAW, audio interface, libraries, synthesizer, controller, ...
> Luckily I am into "commercial" music so that there is some of that already available but I can not really imagine how to get really good quality in film music without some big investments. What was your way into the industry?
> ...



Stay away from forums as much as possible. We often buy on others approval just to be part of an imaginary club.


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## Living Fossil (Feb 2, 2018)

MrJul said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I would really like to know how I should afford all the stuff: good monitor system (5.0 or 5.1 needed?), room, acoustics, computer, DAW, audio interface, libraries, synthesizer, controller, ...



Serially.

One after the other.


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## benatural (Feb 2, 2018)

Maybe OT, but I'm in the just buy the gear camp. I wait for Sweetwater to have their 0% 48 month financing promos and then I get what I want/need. 

HZ said on this forum that a synth will buy you a house, but house won't buy you a synth. Maybe I took that out of context, but that advice changed my outlook on spending for gear. So I just do it with no regrets and I'm glad I do.

Be responsible yes, but invest in yourself and your craft whenever you can. Easier said than done I know, but there's something to be said for just going all in and commiting 110%. Gear is your instrument and your muse!


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## Daryl (Feb 3, 2018)

benatural said:


> HZ said on this forum that a synth will buy you a house, but house won't buy you a synth.


That's perfectly true, providing that you know how to use it and you're a great composer. If you don't know how to use it and you're mediocre, it will buy you much less, or nothing. The snag is that in order to learn to use the synth, you have to buy it and spend months/years practising.

So what you really need to do is get together a proper business plan. Treat it like any other business. For a start, you need to know what your strengths are, and at the beginning just make sure that you have the gear to play to those.


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## Josh Richman (Feb 3, 2018)

This...


Get a Mac. Get a nice controller, nice headphones and an apogee or UAD. Go all in the box. Logic is a great deal. EastWest is a bargain, invest in a few high quality samples libraries + reverbs. Done.

It’s very accessible and this is the cost to entry today. Buy on Black Friday and holiday sales. Everything else is extra nonsense and boat loads of hype, you’ll know when you need it.

And look. Don’t get carried away with the larger than life HZ quotes. Yeah buy quality, buy once (with resale value), but don’t go buying thousand dollar vintage / hardware synths (I’m gonna get some heat for this) with delusions that it will buy you a house in LA. While physical synths are fun, they just don’t make sense in light of Vsts now. Several thousand VS u-he (that’s what HZ uses in reality)


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## wst3 (Feb 3, 2018)

fixxer49 said:


> I scored my first feature film using exactly this: an Alesis QS8.1 (stock sounds) and a Korg D1600 + a pair of shitty Sony DJ headphones. (I bet a lot of folks here have similar stories.)


Thanks for that reminder! 

My first paid gig was a jingle, made with an Ensoniq EPS, a Yamaha TX-81z, an Alesis HR-16, and a Korg MS-20, in addition to a couple guitars recorded direct into (wait for it...) the Sunrize audio card in an Amiga.

I'm still quite pleased with the composition - so was the client, and he later paid to record it with live players.


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## Piano Pete (Feb 3, 2018)

Lots of sales and events happen. Learn the cycles, and take advantage of them!


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## VinRice (Feb 3, 2018)

Have a serious stage accident, spend three weeks in hospital, undergo three operation to fix/replace the broken part, spend six months learning how to play an instrument again, wait three years for the insurance money and spend it all on sample libraries. Simple!


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## GtrString (Feb 3, 2018)

Today is the cheapest entry into music production there ever has been. In the 1970s you needed about 10.000$ to get a home recording setup, but the prices have gone down to about 500$ for an even more powerful setup today. That is about 5% of the cost it used to be.

Not sure if the cost of a pro studio with console and everything has changed as much, but after the digital homerecording boom in the 00s that has democratised recording technology, everyone can now record without worrying about quality.

If it gets any cheaper, we will have to listen to even more ridiculous amts of rubbish. People now are raised to expect praise for everything, no matter how little effort and thought is put into it.


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## kitekrazy (Feb 3, 2018)

GtrString said:


> Today is the cheapest entry into music production there ever has been. In the 1970s you needed about 10.000$ to get a home recording setup, but the prices have gone down to about 500$ for an even more powerful setup today. That is about 5% of the cost it used to be.
> 
> Not sure if the cost of a pro studio with console and everything has changed as much, but after the digital homerecording boom in the 00s that has democratised recording technology, everyone can now record without worrying about quality.
> 
> If it gets any cheaper, we will have to listen to even more ridiculous amts of rubbish. *People now are raised to expect praise for everything, no matter how little effort and thought is put into it*.



That and they believe tools create talent. Give me the best library and there are those who could run circles around me using GPO and the free Sonatina.

Another reality is you might have to do some work for free. Van Halen and Metallica did it and just about every other band out there. My brother did it for photography. 

Make sure you're good at it. Be willing to accept it as a hobby. Any certification does not mean you are good at it. Fields like this are difficult to get into.


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## Phillip (Feb 4, 2018)

Dont worry about equipment so much. Use what you already have and focus on learning how to play a musical instrument, sight read, harmony , theory etc. Those are the things that will buy you a house and a synth.


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## SyMTiK (Feb 8, 2018)

The biggest mistake I think you could make is buying everything all at once before you've even gotten started. Buy a little at a time, and little by little build your collection. I started out when I was 14 (which is only 6 years ago, im young ) on a shitty old iMac, logic express, and some bose noise cancelling headphones. I mainly spent time reading books on writing, theory, midi orchestration, working with a DAW, mixing techniques, and finding tons of tutorials online on how to do various things in music. I would mow lawns to save up for something new, eventually bought an M-Audio keystation 61, bought yamaha HS5's, got Komplete 8, saved up more, upgraded to komplete 9 ultimate when it was on sale, played around with stock kontakt instruments, asked for money for xmas when I was 15 to buy spitfire albion I with the education discount, and just kept going from there, little by little, but mainly learning how to use what I already had effectively. Once I got my first job, I would save up money specifically for music and every few months buy a new library, new gear, etc. Eventually saved up to build a powerful PC for creating MIDI Mockups, got Composer Cloud X with the Edu pricing for 15 dollars a month, and now I pretty much have all I will ever need. Sure theres always new cool products that come out, but the tool is not what makes the music good. If I were to go back now, I can probably make a pretty decent sounding mockup using Kontakt's stock library. it would be limiting and take a good amount of work to execute, but its doable. a professional violinist can make a 100 dollar violin sound like a 10000 dollar violin. its all in the player/composer. 

id say start with something basic. get a decent starter orchestral library, a daw of your choice, some decent headphones or monitors, a decent computer, and go from there. 

cheapest route: get composer cloud, audio technica m50x's, and build or buy a computer with atleast 16 gig of ram, quad core processor, and 500gb-1tb of ssd space. that would be more than enough to start out. a basic hollywood orchestra template with single mic positions should have no problems running on a machine like that. I created a template that has all articulations I commonly use for every instrument, but all channels deactivated when I load the template, so that I can load in the instruments I want as I need them. with all basic articulations loaded for strings brass winds and percussion just using hollywood orchestra and no other virtual instruments, I think my template uses around 12 or so gigs of ram. 

but more than anything, learning to write great music with limited resources is what will make you a better composer. I have a friend who did an entire score for his friends short film using just a korg microkorg synthesizer recorded into garageband. its doable.


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## MrJul (Feb 8, 2018)

Thanks for all the great replies – I will do my very best!


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## MrJul (Feb 10, 2018)

Hi again,
one follow-up question: Is stereo enough or do you need a 5.0/5.1 system to get great results? What about movies in cinema?

Thanks again!


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## Daryl (Feb 10, 2018)

MrJul said:


> Hi again,
> one follow-up question: Is stereo enough or do you need a 5.0/5.1 system to get great results? What about movies in cinema?
> 
> Thanks again!


Unless you are specifically told to mix in 5,1, stereo is fine. If you are getting a cinema release, you will be getting enough money for the production expenses either to purchase one, or to hire one, or to hire a 5.1 mix room. At that stage I don't think you'd be doing your own mixes anyway, would you?


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## Puzzlefactory (Feb 10, 2018)

MrJul said:


> Hi again,
> one follow-up question: Is stereo enough or do you need a 5.0/5.1 system to get great results? What about movies in cinema?
> 
> Thanks again!



I doubt any project that was intended for cinema release would expect the composer to be a mix engineer as well.


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## RRBE Sound (Feb 10, 2018)

I will just pop in with my advice/way to go: 

First I started out simply composing in Sibelius on a laptop. No keyboard, no speakers and great samples. 

Then it kinda stood still as I focused on my French horn career. 

When I started composing/making music again, more serious. I had bought some Mackie speakers for my gaming setup. I used these speakers together with at somewhat cheap AkAi 49 keyboard. With this came The purchase of Logic Pro X. And I used the orchestral sound from here. 

I also purchased a Focusrite Interface.

After this, I started earnig a little money which was spend on better samples. As well as a good pair of headphones. 

Then, having cover the base of great samples (of what I need) I began searching for better computer. Here I started by making a Hackintosh (not for everyone). It worked perfectly and served me good and for the fraction of the Apple price. 

Then I bought Genelec Speakers. Sold the old ones. Found a great deal with a super nice guy who had been using them for video-audio monitoring. 

Again, a little flow of money started and I have not upgraded to a Mac Pro. Also bought second hand from a person who hadn't used it much. 

That's sort of my story, for now (I am still young, some might say.. (25)).

So! My advice is take it slow. Do not be stride of buying second hand. Also, some sample librarie manufactures offer the possibility of resell of libraries, others do not.. 

Invest when you can and have the economic stability you find right. 

I do not know if this is helpful but at least it is advice from someone who somewhat are enduring the same frustrating question as you. 

All the best
Rune


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## benatural (Feb 10, 2018)

I don't want to start a platform war... But there's no compelling reason to buy a Mac, unless you need to use Logic, or are already heavily invested in Mac software. I owned a Mac Pro for many years, and PC price, performance, and flexibility have outpaced Mac. Stability is the same. 

I just needed to say this as a counterpoint to the "you need a mac" advice


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## Puzzlefactory (Feb 10, 2018)

benatural said:


> I don't want to start a platform war... But there's no compelling reason to buy a Mac, unless you need to use Logic, or are already heavily invested in Mac software. I owned a Mac Pro for many years, and PC price, performance, and flexibility have outpaced Mac. Stability is the same.
> 
> I just needed to say this as a counterpoint to the "you need a mac" advice



I disagree. As someone who owns both a Mac and a pc with music software installed I find the pc much more of a headache. 

The amount of hours I’ve wasted hunting down random drivers on the internet because of Windows 10 is ridiculous.


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## RRBE Sound (Feb 10, 2018)

benatural said:


> I don't want to start a platform war... But there's no compelling reason to buy a Mac, unless you need to use Logic, or are already heavily invested in Mac software. I owned a Mac Pro for many years, and PC price, performance, and flexibility have outpaced Mac. Stability is the same.
> 
> I just needed to say this as a counterpoint to the "you need a mac" advice



Super great! - I am also not writing that people *should* buy a Mac Pro - I am just writing what I did, as a part of my example of how I tackled the ''No money - need lots of gear'' - issue - It's just my case that I really like Apple products. :D 

As I wrote, I started by building a Hackintosh, before buying a Mac Pro. I used a MacBook Pro before, I build that. 

Price-wise, I do think PC is great, - But again, you can come a long way buying secondhand, Mac or PC. 

Now, back to topic


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## AlexRuger (Feb 10, 2018)

Puzzlefactory said:


> I disagree. As someone who owns both a Mac and a pc with music software installed I find the pc much more of a headache.
> 
> The amount of hours I’ve wasted hunting down random drivers on the internet because of Windows 10 is ridiculous.



Ok, let's just clear this up and avoid another platform war. There are best practices for both platforms. If you're literally spending hours hunting down _random_ drivers, you are not following best practices. 

This is Windows, not Linux -- drivers are a minor concern at worst. Know what hardware you have, download drivers only from the manufacturer's website, research before updating, the end.

For the record, I absolutely agree that a Mac is the best choice for the majority of people who are starting out (and that probably the best entry into this gear is Apogee or UAD, plus Composer Cloud -- all a fantastic way to get going). MacOS is still far and away my favorite OS, even though I'm now on Windows.


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## Matt Riley (Feb 10, 2018)

Puzzlefactory said:


> I disagree. As someone who owns both a Mac and a pc with music software installed I find the pc much more of a headache.
> 
> The amount of hours I’ve wasted hunting down random drivers on the internet because of Windows 10 is ridiculous.


Very true for me too. And I own both. Last year Windows updated and my display monitor when crazy. I couldn't make anything out on the screen because everything was jumbled. I had to bring in a tech guy who troubleshooted for several hours and had to restore from a backup. Now auto update is disabled (which was a complicated process) so I haven't had problems since. I also keep my PC of the internet so that helps.


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 10, 2018)

I can't really imagine my next round being Macs...although they are easy peasy for general computing, email, etc. Seems like there should be one Mac in the room just for the random AU plugin or Logic. And maybe also a Hackintosh.


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## MrJul (Feb 11, 2018)

Daryl said:


> Unless you are specifically told to mix in 5,1, stereo is fine. If you are getting a cinema release, you will be getting enough money for the production expenses either to purchase one, or to hire one, or to hire a 5.1 mix room. At that stage I don't think you'd be doing your own mixes anyway, would you?



I don't know! What about professionals like @Rctec?


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## jonathanparham (Feb 11, 2018)

MrJul said:


> I don't know! What about professionals like @Rctec?


Can't speak for @Rtec but I'd search the threads because on this forum, He's posted at length about getting started in the business, specifically at his facility if I recall correctly. Also, in his masterclass he said something to the effect that your first clients may be just using gear like an ipad and a microphone lol. What I felt was communicated in that comment was, what's already mentioned in your/THIS thread, making the best music and telling musically good stories with what you can already can afford.


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## X-Bassist (Feb 11, 2018)

MrJul said:


> I don't know! What about professionals like @Rctec?



HZ bought a used synth from a friend back in the 90’s, so even he was not beyond buying 2nd hand and making it work. Now he has a facility for mixing 5.1, but in most cases unless you’re mixing for features or it is requested by the client; it’s fine to work in stereo. In those cases where you need to mix surround you can always rent a film dubb stage or surround studio for a day or two and do your final mix, but working up pieces in surround is a strain on the computer and not a great use of time.


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## Vik (Feb 11, 2018)

Buy only what you know you need right now.


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## Daryl (Feb 12, 2018)

MrJul said:


> I don't know! What about professionals like @Rctec?


What about HZ? Whilst he is undoubtedly a good mix engineer, he also gets someone in for a fresh pair of ears. He is also writing high end material for budgets way outside that of any noob. Forget HZ. His current set-up is not pertinent to the discussion.


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## tmhuud (Feb 12, 2018)

Don’t waste your time with 5.1. You’d have to never move from a single position while composing to get the effect. And imagine if you have say 5 people over, director, a few producers , etc and they’re listening. They are going to be all over your studio and that one sound you carefully placed in the back right speaker is going to distract the shit out of them and take them out of their concentrating on your composition and their picture.

I remember HGW talking about how he tried 5.1 for composing in his studio and it was a disaster.


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## MrJul (Feb 13, 2018)

Thank you all once again for these useful answers!


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## Ryan (Feb 13, 2018)

Hi
I've never ever needed a 5.1 system. Also, I have never invested a lot in "toys". Lately I have done some investments, but now I have a steady income. 

Rule nr. 1: Get a daytime job so you get some income. 
Rule nr. 2: Use your time to investigate/explore the realm of music production
Rule nr. 3: Make awesome music
Rule nr. 4: Be a good seller. Know how to pitch your own music 
Rule nr. 5: Keep your daytime job, even when you get a really nice paycheck for some musical work.
Rule nr. 6: Never invest in something you couldn't pay upfront. 

good luck!


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## VinRice (Feb 15, 2018)

To re-iterate what others have said:

Have a job or side business - particularly at the beginning
Don't buy on credit
You don't need 5.1
Invest in lessons, books, videos etc - increasing your skill level is absolutely essential.


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## Greg (Feb 15, 2018)

I think there is only one thing you need. Creative inspiration. If you're inspired and have an idea, you will find a way to unleash it no matter what you're working with. People can pick up on an idea when it's fresh and inspired even if the samples are complete shit. That's one thing that completely boggles me about music, it seems to carry an unquantifiable energy that you can only feel when it's a truly special piece.


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## jononotbono (Feb 17, 2018)

I’ve just been building my Music Lab by buying bit by bit over years. I always invest money from any paid music job back into Music. I guess I could have got a loan but getting into such debt is bad news with a lot of stress in my opinion.


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## R. Soul (Feb 17, 2018)

The biggest thing I've learnt over the years is:
Buy cheap, but not too cheap.

For example, don't spend £50 on a software synth, when several of the best on the market only costs £150.
Another example is monitors. A pair of JBL LSR305 will only set you back around £200. But cheaper than that is probably not worth it. 
So, you can get decent quality for little money. Once you have a lot more money, there's always better gear out there, but it's pointless spending £2000 on monitors, and only having £500 left for the rest of the gear.


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