# Composer Greencard



## SuperD (Dec 27, 2015)

I've been thinking about where I'd like to take my career as a composer. The US would be great I think (please correct me if I'm wrong), it just seems like it would be the best place to advance to in terms of an abundance of film and game companies, and a nice country to live in. I'm not tied to where I'm living (no family/property/etc.) but I'm wondering how one would go about moving to the US as a composer. Is it difficult to get a visa? Do you have to have an agency sponsor? 

If anyone has made this move and can provide any insight/pros/cons, I'd really appreciate it. Cheers.


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## Prockamanisc (Dec 27, 2015)

I can't speak for the visa, because I'm an American, but I can say that even as an American I didn't want to move to LA because of the struggles involved with making a career there. What is it that you're after? An abundance of opportunities? If so, you're already on it...the internet will connect you well enough. Are you after an education? Then you could get a student visa.


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## SuperD (Dec 27, 2015)

Prockamanisc said:


> I can't speak for the visa, because I'm an American, but I can say that even as an American I didn't want to move to LA because of the struggles involved with making a career there. What is it that you're after? An abundance of opportunities? If so, you're already on it...the internet will connect you well enough. Are you after an education? Then you could get a student visa.


Well, I'm considering going there for education too. Perhaps some courses at Berklee or USC if they could give me a boost. From my experiences so far, I've only been able to compose for people I've met face to face. Do you often get jobs that are just via email/Skype?


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## Prockamanisc (Dec 27, 2015)

SuperD said:


> Do you often get jobs that are just via email/Skype?


I honestly haven't tried, so no. But I have forged collaborations which maintain themselves over long distances.


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## markwind (Dec 28, 2015)

I really want to second the internet, don't underestimate the power of the Dark Si.. I mean networking.. on a digital.. network.. Its pretty much in the name.. Because i'm kind of contrary to you, I haven't gotten a job yet for a first time meeting face to face. Everything´s digital and only after initial contact do we meet up, or sometimes even not at all. Depends on the situation.


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## Arvianth (Dec 28, 2015)

I think, the O-1 visa is the only opportunity for a composer (except marriage and greencard lottery, of course :D). Not sure if it is legal to work with student visa.


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## SuperD (Dec 28, 2015)

markwind said:


> I really want to second the internet, don't underestimate the power of the Dark Si.. I mean networking.. on a digital.. network.. Its pretty much in the name.. Because i'm kind of contrary to you, I haven't gotten a job yet for a first time meeting face to face. Everything´s digital and only after initial contact do we meet up, or sometimes even not at all. Depends on the situation.


Interesting to learn that. I guess I just need to keep trying to get composing jobs via the net?


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## SuperD (Dec 28, 2015)

Arvianth said:


> I think, the O-1 visa is the only opportunity for a composer (except marriage and greencard lottery, of course :D). Not sure if it is legal to work with student visa.


Thanks for that. Apparently it's the O-1B visa I'll need as a composer, and a helluva lot more credit than what's on my resume at the moment!


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## markwind (Dec 28, 2015)

SuperD said:


> Interesting to learn that. I guess I just need to keep trying to get composing jobs via the net?


Well, do what feels natural and best to you. You don´t ´need´ to do anything . But its an option worth exploring in my opinion


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 28, 2015)

Composer Greencard sounds good. Someone should suggest that to Buck "Doug" Rogers.


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## prodigalson (Dec 28, 2015)

I'm an Irish citizen living in New York City and studied on F-1 Visa, worked for 6 years under an O1 artist visa and now currently on a self-petitioned green card. Some bullet points:

You absolutely can not work while on an F1 Student visa. At least not on paper. It will not be feasible to consider working primarily and then "doing some courses" at Berklee etc. You must be enrolled full-time in a college program to be eligible for a student visa (and you must have a student visa to study at these institutions). 

The O1 is tricky as not only do you have to demonstrate a certain kind of resume to be eligible but you must also be sponsored by a US entity (agent, company, manager etc). 

You certainly can self-petition for a Green Card (without sponsorship) based on being an artist of extraordinary ability but the resume and career you need to demonstrate is at a higher bar than that of the O1. 

The other factor to consider is that many of these options can be very expensive. It is generally recommended to hire an immigration attorney to apply for an O1 or Green card and the fees for an average petition can range from $4000 - $6000 for the O1 and up to $15,000 all in for the Green Card. You can certainly petition without an attorney (though that can be very risky and can take a huge amount of work and research on your behalf) but you still have to pay the government application fees that can be upwards of $3000 total. 

I would recommend working where you are and building a resume and connections first (online or locally) and then capitalizing on that for a VISA down the line. 

Depending on your nationality you can also travel to the US under the VISA waiver program for up to 3 months to try and network and build connections. You, however, can not legally work during this time. It would simply be personal and professional research. I do know some people that have done this and found someone willing to sponsor them for an O1. 

Hope that helps.


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## SuperD (Dec 28, 2015)

prodigalson said:


> I'm an Irish citizen living in New York City and studied on F-1 Visa, worked for 6 years under an O1 artist visa and now currently on a self-petitioned green card. Some bullet points:
> 
> You absolutely can not work while on an F1 Student visa. At least not on paper. It will not be feasible to consider working primarily and then "doing some courses" at Berklee etc. You must be enrolled full-time in a college program to be eligible for a student visa (and you must have a student visa to study at these institutions).
> 
> ...


Absolutely! Thanks for such an informative response. It's more difficult than I ever imagined... I've got my work cut out for me. Cheers


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## afterlight82 (Dec 29, 2015)

O1 is hard now. They used to give them out a lot, before 9/11, since the case officers got mere minutes (15-30, maybe) to review the applications, and a lot of flashy letterheads with references could pull sway. Not any more. You can self-sponsor - set up a C Corp. that hires and sponsors you, but they do scrutinize. The bar is way higher now. The loophole in the eight criteria they use is the "equivalent evidence", letters from peers in the field is vital, and newspapers still help. Green card from zero on merit alone is nigh on impossible.


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## afterlight82 (Dec 29, 2015)

Ps if you are Irish apply for the green card lottery. You never know, a friend got one first try.


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## afterlight82 (Dec 29, 2015)

(Odds are about 0.35 in 100, but heck, it beats the national lottery)


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## ryst (Jan 5, 2016)

Super D,

If you need a good lawyer pm me. My wife is a paralegal for an immigration law firm here in LA.


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## gsilbers (Jan 5, 2016)

prodigalson said:


> I'm an Irish citizen living in New York City and studied on F-1 Visa, worked for 6 years under an O1 artist visa and now currently on a self-petitioned green card. Some bullet points:
> 
> You absolutely can not work while on an F1 Student visa. At least not on paper. It will not be feasible to consider working primarily and then "doing some courses" at Berklee etc. You must be enrolled full-time in a college program to be eligible for a student visa (and you must have a student visa to study at these institutions).
> 
> ...



A few minor corrections.

you can only work under a student visa if you work at the school you go to. in berklee there are some jobs like live sound engineer and library assistant and so on. it has to be part time.

the artist visa and green card has become more stricter than before. the above sounds right but they also considered who is sponsoring, etc so its not assured just having a sponsored.

the prices can vary a little less but it sounds about right.

see it form the goverments point of view...
they want to bring in international talent that make money and pay up good taxes. (bands/entertainers)
and at the same time not compete with low level US jobs.

I would pm ryst and see if his wife can give you more info. the lawyers can easily tell you at what level they are giving visas and whats needed and will work with you.

just a side point i'd like make: not because a lawyer is doing the paperwork it means it will be ok. triple check everything and ask questions. stupid questions, hard questions, any questions.
ive been screwed several times by different "high power" lawyers who made really stupid mistakes and it was a HUGE hassle that took (worrysome)years to fix. this is for immigration and other types.


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## prodigalson (Jan 5, 2016)

gsilbers said:


> you can only work under a student visa if you work at the school you go to. in berklee there are some jobs like live sound engineer and library assistant and so on. it has to be part time.



Right. That's correct, although I didn't mention it as it seemed like the OP's employment hopes were a little more ambitious than a part-time, minimum wage library assistant. When I was at Berklee I worked in the piano dept. at the front desk. I don't even remember if I even made any money doing that. 



gsilbers said:


> the artist visa and green card has become more stricter than before. the above sounds right but they also considered who is sponsoring, etc so its not assured just having a sponsored.



Yes for the Visa but for the green card you can self-petition as an artist without getting sponsorship. That's what I did. 



gsilbers said:


> not because a lawyer is doing the paperwork it means it will be ok. triple check everything and ask questions. stupid questions, hard questions, any questions.



Absolutely correct. I would also add to follow up on ALL deadlines and make sure your lawyer is meeting them.


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## valenciasound (Jan 18, 2016)

I'm also interested in finding out more about this. I know I'll have to talk to a lawyer at some point but wondered if maybe someone has an idea based on these circumstances:

British citizen
High income from composing
A long list of placements including thousands in the US (but usually without my name directly on the credits since they were through production music companies)

I noticed there is an E2 visa with a minimum investment of roughly $100k. I have some potential business plans and could put the capital up for this.

Any ideas welcome..


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## afterlight82 (Jan 18, 2016)

From your description might be able to get an O-1, which doesn't require the capital investment. Evidence of a high income is one of the O-1 criteria. (You need to satisfy three, and really, really, really satisfy them, not just scrape by). The only snag to an E-2 is if you hit on a rough patch and don't have the capital to keep the capital investment in place...they boot you out. O-1 is awesome - if you can get it. Once you have it, you have it for life basically, because every three years, you just re-apply, and your evidence of qualification is then your previous O-1. (they say you can extend it each year but the paperwork is the same to just re-apply for a whole new O-1 to extending the old one, I made that mistake only once)

here are the rules....

Evidence that the beneficiary has received a major, internationally-recognized award, such as a Nobel Prize, or evidence of at least (3) three of the following: 

Receipt of nationally or internationally recognized prizes or awards for excellence in the field of endeavor
Membership in associations in the field for which classification is sought which require outstanding achievements, as judged by recognized national or international experts in the field
Published material in professional or major trade publications, newspapers or other major media about the beneficiary and the beneficiary’s work in the field for which classification is sought
Original scientific, scholarly, or business-related contributions of major significance in the field
Authorship of scholarly articles in professional journals or other major media in the field for which classification is sought
A high salary or other remuneration for services as evidenced by contracts or other reliable evidence
Participation on a panel, or individually, as a judge of the work of others in the same or in a field of specialization allied to that field for which classification is sought
Employment in a critical or essential capacity for organizations and establishments that have a distinguished reputation
*If the above criteria do not readily apply to the beneficiary’s occupation, the petitioner may submit comparable evidence in order to establish the beneficiary’s eligibility.
*
I bolded that for good reason....because usually composer O-1s need other things. Ideally, you want letters of recommendation from anybody who is anybody...boatloads of them. 50 to 100 letters isn't a bad target. Directors you've worked with...your major clients...even your local MP? That kind of thing. If you know anybody famous - even if you've never worked with them - twist their arm. You'll only have to do it once. Get a good lawyer who is near to the American Embassy in London, preferably one is who has also passed the U.S. bar. They usually have an "in", which doesn't help you really, but it...can, in terms of the fact they're good at submitting this stuff and getting you in for the appointment through "back channels". Make absolutely sure they've handled O-1's before. Many haven't, in which case they might not really know...it's not standard stuff. They process H-1B's etc day in and day out...O-1 is different.

You also need a letter from the American Federation of Musicians, to whom you basically submit your application before you send it to USCIS. For some unknown reason they are the professional body that is asked for an advisory opinion. And do "premium processing" on it, it's not supposed to increase your chances (and most lawyers will tell you it doesn't) but it's no accident that more people who do premium processing get approved.


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## valenciasound (Jan 18, 2016)

Wow... that was really helpful! Thank you very much.

How long have you had an O-1 yourself? Would you mind if I PM'd you a few things?


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## afterlight82 (Jan 18, 2016)

Sure thing. I don't have one any more, I have a green card now and will be a citizen later this year, but I had one for something like 10 years.


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