# Why did "Headshot" get banned?



## FriFlo (Feb 25, 2017)

I cannot find his profile anymore, so I assume h really got banned ...
For those who missed it, in the now closed thread about HZ clones HZ himself brought up one of his film scores as an example of his Bigband writing. Headshot did not believe Hans that he had really orchestrated all of this himself. I am not sure, I have seen all of Headshots posts in that thread. But I have seen most of them and what I did see was not very polite, it showed his aversion against HZ, but it was not an insult and it was far off from being enough to Bann a member from this forum and delete all of his posts.
I am not saying I agree with Headshot! But I don't like the way this has been handled either. There are quite a lot of accusations going on in this place and I have hardly ever seen someone getting banned for the same kind of behavior. So, it seems to me that HZ is the more valuable member here to the board administration and it should not be allowed to criticize him or even question him? That seems off to me for a forum ... sounds more like policy and insterests.


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## mc_deli (Feb 25, 2017)

Darn missed that... so those amazing threads like the ultimate Star Wars mock up that many believed had to be real etc... all lost?

For asking a composer which part of the gig he actually did? I didn't see the phrasing but that is the question I would ask, too. Always interested to know who actually does what... how it scales with an actual team...


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## kavinsky (Feb 25, 2017)

freedom of speech


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## NoamL (Feb 25, 2017)

The gist was more or less this -

Composer A: "Here's something I wrote, really stretched myself to write in this new style... it didn't turn out amazing but it was a fun experience!"
Composer B: "Actually I know you are too ignorant to be able to write that LOL."
Composer A: "Are you calling me a liar? I indeed wrote this. My assistants took down the MIDI to paper, that's all."
Composer B: "Show me your original MIDI orchestration or I don't believe you."

Composer B is being an unprofessional jackass no matter who Composer A happens to be. Maybe they don't deserve a permaban but they sure as hell deserve a time out and a warning.

Also, Headshot didn't seem to quite understand the difference between "copyist," "orchestrator" and "additional writer." He appeared to think that because Hans has worked to get "music department" credits for his team, more so I daresay than at least a few other A Listers, that Hans is _the only composer_ who _has_ a music department.

Asking politely how a composer's workflow works is fine, but insisting on your own ignorance instead of the other person's explanation of their own process and accusing them of lying is way over the line.

This is a forum for composers and I think some basic literacy of our industry should be expected... we are not laypeople.

Here is what I mean. There is a lot of ignorant nonsense floating around Ordinary People Land about how film composing works, of the "Star Wars is just ripped from Holst" variety. I get really tired and disgusted when I see that floating around Facebook - even from people who have music degrees. They just repeat ignorant lies they heard from professors and others who have never worked in this industry and often don't even disguise their professional jealousy that more people know and love the music of Williams, Zimmer, Giacchino and Powell than that of Stockhausen, Ferneyhough, and Carter.

I come to VI-C to talk to composers and music enthusiasts. I don't want to see BS here too.

BTW. If you want to see HeadShot's original Star Wars composition it's still on Youtube *here*. Listened again today... it's still incredible.


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## Hannes_F (Feb 25, 2017)

FriFlo, perhaps you are setting an assumption for a fact in your title?

I am not a moderator any more but 'back in my time' bans were 99 % temporary, which left the posts of the member intact and just prevented him from posting a number of days. Often the ban was even restricted to a particular thread and the member could post everywhere else.

The typical exception would be if the member had addressed the forum owner or the admin and explicitly asked for deletion of his account including all posts as a tantrum reaction to some conflict. I am not saying this is the case here since I don't have that information, but it is a possibility.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 25, 2017)

Sam said:


> Yes, I have been banished with no warning (I received a warning and was banned a few moments later without having posted anything)
> 
> I didn't delete my messages. I would not change a single word. My only regret is that I did not realize that I have been misquoted few times.
> 
> ...



No, there are not the bad and good ones, but there are *the forum rules *which you will find here:

http://www.vi-control.net/community/threads/guideline-rules-for-vi-control-forum-updated.3/

In particular there is a paragraph 4 stating the following, let me quote:

*"4. Personal attacks.* When a member attacks another member - be it a composer or a developer - as a forum owner I am entitled to respond. In our ten year history, we’ve seen plenty of disagreements escalate between members themselves and/or between members and developers. *Example: calling someone a fraud or a liar publicly - regardless of whether the recipient is a member or a developer - constitutes a personal attack.* The problem is that subsequent rants against another left unchecked can easily escalate. Those kinds of issues are generally outside the scope of the forum when they reach critical mass where either the legal card is raised or suggested. When I move these threads I do so as a way to protect our forum and members who angrily participated in those threads from doing harm to themselves and to those being attacked. *When posting, please maintain a respectful tone towards all members of this forum. If you cannot agree to disagree respectfully on a subject, please refrain from posting."*

I mean you didn´t wrote he is a liar, but after he chimed in and told you that he orchestrated and arranged the Big Band Tune, you didn´t believe him.
I quote one of your posts:

*"Of course, it was sarcasm.

If Hans Zimmer has entirely written and orchestrated this piece, as he said, I'm the King of the Universe and Santa Claus is my father.

But I do not prevent anyone from believing."
*
That´s somehow the other way around insisting that HZ is a liar which violates paragraph 4 of the forum rules, so they kicked you. Its just easy as that.
My conclusion is: If you want to be treated with respect you should first treat others with respect. If you can´t handle this relative simplistic approach then this is obviously the wrong place for you.


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## Jaap (Feb 26, 2017)

Also good to remember

*10. Only one user account per member. *Members may establish only one username/account. Multiple accounts are not permitted and may result in losing your membership privileges.


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## FriFlo (Feb 26, 2017)

You people are ridiculous! That was by no means an insult. And the fact that Mike Verta turned it into one with a cheap rhetorical trick doesn't make it one, still. 
It is so clear, that people in this forum have been a lot more sharp with there tongues on other members without getting banned and this banishment is only due the star factor of HZ or maybe the fact that his masterclass is currently being advertised.
@Sam: the forum for you already exists! It is called thesoundboard.


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## FriFlo (Feb 26, 2017)

@AlexanderSchiborr: Think about it this way:
You say A is true, I say B is true. Then somebody else comes in claiming I call you a liar and I say, "no, I did not, but I still think B is true.
Don't you see the trick? So, I cannot oppose your opinion or choose not to believe you without calling you a liar?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 26, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> @AlexanderSchiborr: Think about it this way:
> You say A is true, I say B is true. Then somebody else comes in claiming I call you a liar and I say, "no, I did not, but I still think B is true.
> Don't you see the trick? So, I cannot oppose your opinion or choose not to believe you without being a liar?



Well, there is a difference when two people having an opinon on a third party topic where they are both not involved, right? That is true. But that doesn´t apply here imo because it is HZ himself who said he did wrote, orchestrated and arranged the track and when somebody else (who is btw not even involved) doesn´t believe him even after HZ said that he did so, then this can be taken as an intepretation _that somebody insinuate that HZ is not saying the truth_. Isn´t it? Using the word "Liar" is a more obvious direct word for the same situation to claim somebody is not saying the truth, isn´t it? Maybe I am wrong, and I am by no means somebody who wants to defend HZ or even mock on Head shot but I try to be objective.
And you say that he got banned because of the star factor of HZ. Can you evaluate such a claim? Were there other cases in the past on the forum where somebody else was banned just because of the Star factor of HZ? I don´t know any case. But I can be totally wrong, so I ask.
And btw: I critized HZ a lot, also in public and in a very direct way e.g. in the case of Cyrill Orcel. But I try not to post or insist things which I am not able to substantiate anyways.

One thing I have to admit: A warning before getting banned would be fair. If that didn´t happen then this is also not right.


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## FriFlo (Feb 26, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Well, there is a difference when two people having an opinon on a third party topic where they are both not involved, right? That is true. But that doesn´t apply here imo because it is HZ himself who said he did wrote, orchestrated and arranged the track and when somebody else doesn´t believe him even after HZ said that he did so, then this can be taken as an intepretation _that somebody insinuate that HZ is not saying the truth_. Isn´t it? Using the word "Liar" is a more obvious direct word for the same situation to claim somebody is not saying the truth, isn´t it? Maybe I am wrong, and I am by no means somebody who wants to defend HZ or even mock on Head shot but I try to be objective.
> And you say that he got banned because of the star factor of HZ. That´s a claim. Can you prove it? Were there other cases in the past on the forum where somebody else was banned because of the Star factor of HZ? I don´t know any case. But I can be totally wrong, so I ask.
> And btw: I critized HZ a lot, also in public and in a very direct way e.g. in the case of Cyrill Orcel. But I try not to post or insist things (regardless if it is insisting somebody is not telling the truth or not) which I am not able to prove anyways.


I don't need proof for the fact that people criticize each other a lot here for having opposing truths and opinions. You can almost read any thread here to find some of that. Ok, I will make a drastic example: Recently, there was a Taiwanese guy claiming 8dio were racist, as they would not sell him a library due to his nationality. It turned out, it was true, but not due to racism, but rather due to their paranoia with piracy. In the end, the poster did edit some of his posts, but the initial "racism" version stood there for many days without him getting banned for it. That, just as one example out of many, proves you can indeed make accusations here without getting banned for them immediately. And this is really necessary for a working democracy with free speech, because otherwise you cannot have a real debate.
Being attacked may sometimes feel insulting, but you have to draw a clear line of what an insult is. If you read through the initial thread, you will see I tried to de-escalate, because I am not for rage and turmoil. And I don't even support the way Headshot did phrase his points. At the same time, I disliked HZs lack of respect for his collaborators. I honestly don't believe, they are just transcribing midi parts to notation. Now, does that mean I call HZ a liar, too? No!
I would expect a lot of HZ fans to hate me for saying that and I would have to endure the shit storm that may come upon me. Banishment from the forum board is an impartial interference, though. And I disagree with that decision.


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## FriFlo (Feb 26, 2017)

Regarding my claim: I certainly cannot prove, why headshot got banned. But I can draw my conclusions from what I have seen here and I cannot remember anybody getting banned for this kind of dispute (even worse kinds). So, the only other reason I could think of is HZs involvement. The moderators might chime in saying they got a lot of reports and complaints about those posts. Well, I am sure there were many, as there is a huge bunch of people who will do anything to shut you up for saying anything negative about HZ (similarly, if you say something negative about certain developers). So, using the number of reports on a post as an indicator for how offensive/insulting a post is seems far from objective to me.


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## Jaap (Feb 26, 2017)

In the past years people have been banned on a regular base for offensive and inappropriate behaviour so nothing new here and I really really doubt if Hans Zimmer was involved in this.... I think he has better things to do to be honest and there has been a lot of critic on Hans here over the years so I don't think that will be the point. Critic is not a bad thing as long as it is constructive and well defined and with respect for the person you critic and to not make it personal and what Headshot did was making it personal in my opinion.


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## FriFlo (Feb 26, 2017)

Jaap said:


> In the past years people have been banned on a regular base for offensive and inappropriate behaviour so nothing new here and I really really doubt if Hans Zimmer was involved in this.... I think he has better things to do to be honest and there has been a lot of critic on Hans here over the years so I don't think that will be the point. Critic is not a bad thing as long as it is constructive and well defined and with respect for the person you critic and to not make it personal and what Headshot did was making it personal in my opinion.


Dude, I didn't say, I think HZ himself was involved! I think it is more likely the administrators or moderators did this out of their respect for him. That still makes it wrong! Be little bit objective: There are many people here claiming something and others disagreeing. And all of this gets personal quite often and sometimes even insulting. Despite the forum rules, I have hardly seen anybody getting banned. In a similar case, I have never seen it. So, if you really claim, this would have happened without the person of interest being HZ, I think you are not objective.
See, now I am calling you a liar, already!  You see, if it is not allowed to doubt someones claim, you cannot really have any serious discussion at all. That is why it is ridiculous what the board admins did here ... I am gonna stay with that, even if they will bann me for saying that ...


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## Jaap (Feb 26, 2017)

I am here for about 10 years now and so far the admins have mostly done a very respectable job and I have no doubt that it is again the case now. Maybe some rotten apples got away in the past (maybe not reported or maybe warned), but I know also enough who got banned.
I misunderstood your line where you said that HZ was involved. Can be read it two ways and I read it wrong, so my apologies for that.
You don't get banned for questioning and you are normally reasonable and that is good, though I disagree with your view, there is nothing wrong in making a question about such matters (on the contrary, I can only applaude that).


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## FriFlo (Feb 26, 2017)

Jaap said:


> You don't get banned for questioning and you are normally reasonable and that is good, though I disagree with your view, there is nothing wrong in making a question about such matters (on the contrary, I can only applaude that).


Think this through! There has to be a way to insist in not believing someone statements he cannot or did not yet prove. And there are things that cannot be proven, like in this example. Actually, HZ and Headshot just had two different interpretations about the word "orchestrate". I was even trying to make that point.
But it has to be allowed to generally disagree with someone else statement or claim. You can not have an honest discussion about a topic without being able to doubt his claims ...


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## Jaap (Feb 26, 2017)

I thought this through Fritz and I am all for being able to disagree with somebody, but the HOW you present that disagreement is a different thing.
Of course Sam can have his doubts and make a question if he really did orchestrate it all by himself, but Hans kindly replied (also said it was not his best work and that he is not the worlds best orchestrator and writer), but then calling him a liar and say things like that he had maybe a memory impairment just goes too far and it doesn't matter if you are talking to Hans Zimmer, me, you or whomever here. I don't think stating that sort of things is good nor constructive.

The freedom of speech does not automatically mean that you can just say any thing that comes to your mind. With it comes also responsibility and awareness and respect of the one you are addressing, even if you disagree with his or her statements or that you don't believe them.

Oh and for the record. On the other forum you mentioned that the ones defending him are bootlicking fanboys, well I am not. I do like his music and workethic, but I am not awestrucked. I don't believe that any person is higher nor lower and for me people are equal, no matter who they are and what they have or haven't achieved.


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## Hannes_F (Feb 26, 2017)

Sam said:


> I received a warning and was banned a few moments later without having posted anything



Hmmm ...

OK FriFlo, you have a point here. Didn't think that.

It goes at the tune:

//: Emotional responses on emotional responses :// repeat ad libitum


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## FriFlo (Feb 26, 2017)

Jaap said:


> The freedom of speech does not automatically mean that you can just say any thing that comes to your mind. With it comes also responsibility and awareness and respect of the one you are addressing, even if you disagree with his or her statements or that you don't believe them.


Yes, but please not double standards, please! I have said multiple times, I don't defend his style here. But other people have attacked each other in a much worse way and may have received warnings, but barely got banned for that.


Jaap said:


> Oh and for the record. On the other forum you mentioned that the ones defending him are bootlicking fanboys, well I am not. I do like his music and workethic, but I am not awestrucked. I don't believe that any person is higher nor lower and for me people are equal, no matter who they are and what they have or haven't achieved.


I did not mean anyone specific, that was just related to the fact that it is predictable, that quite a lot of people will defend HZ against ANY kind of attack. Think of it as a colorful way of phrasing that idea, not as a personal insult.


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## FriFlo (Feb 26, 2017)

Hannes_F said:


> //: Emotional responses on emotional responses :// repeat ad libitum


Yes, "Repeat" comes mind ...


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## Jaap (Feb 26, 2017)

Well hopefully a moderator can chime in and explain the full reason. I agree though on no double standards


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## Hannes_F (Feb 26, 2017)

It is technically impossible to avoid double standards. How would that work?

Moderators can and will not read everything, and often only when they are called by a report. So it could easily be that guy 1 violates the rules all the time and nothing happens, then guy 2 does the same one time, gets reported and axed. And when Frederick gets called to it, he has rarely time to read much but owns the biggest axe.

You can tell the police that you shoplifted because you saw others do it all the time but will that help? You are the one who got caught.

So, simply behave like a civilized person no matter what the others do, that is always good. Like my mother said (and yours presumably too) others are no scale. Absolutely not.


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## Mathieu A (Feb 27, 2017)

Hannes_F said:


> Moderators can and will not read everything, and often only when they are called by a report. So it could easily be that guy 1 violates the rules all the time and nothing happens, then guy 2 does the same one time, gets reported and axed. And when Frederick gets called to it, he has rarely time to read much but owns the biggest axe.
> 
> You can tell the police that you shoplifted because you saw others do it all the time but will that help? You are the one who got caught.



Would you mean that the thread "Star Wars the Force awakens trailer rescored" which was more than 50 pages and last more than a year with numerous insults and accusations has never been red by the moderators? And strangely a 6 pages thread where someone says he doesn't believe what another one said is suddenly closed and the guy banned and all his posts erased?

I mean, you seriously think this has nothing to do with the fact that the mistrust is about a god for a lot of people here?


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## Hannes_F (Feb 27, 2017)

Mathieu A said:


> Would you mean that the thread "Star Wars the Force awakens trailer rescored" which was more than 50 pages and last more than a year with numerous insults and accusations has never been red by the moderators? And strangely a 6 pages thread where someone says he doesn't believe what another one said is suddenly closed and the guy banned and all his posts erased?



Basically yes. Mathieu, in order to explain the procedure to you: I am sure that some of the moderators read at least portions of "Star Wars the Force awakens" thread (I read some of it but not fully). It could be that we were called to some incidents in this thread, then usually we read some pages before to get an overview.
However I am not sure Frederick ever read that "Star Wars" thread at all. Maybe, maybe not, in any case presumably he did not set it into context to the new "Zimmer" thread whatsoever. Frederick steps in when a moderator calls his attention to something which is out of the norm, concentratedly examins the incident in question, and acts.



> I mean, you seriously think this has nothing to do with the fact that the mistrust is about a god for a lot of people here?



I am not sure I understand you here.


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## Mathieu A (Feb 27, 2017)

Hannes_F said:


> I am not sure I understand you here.



Headshot just said to HZ he didn't trust him, surely in a funny way but nothing more. No insult. But it seems too much for all of those who adore him and reported Headshot to the moderators. And even after that, they could, in order :
1 : notice Headshot about the posts they judge unacceptable (while oddly the french bashing was ok, no need to moderate that)
2 : ask everyone to calm down
3 (last resort) : close the thread

But they banned him, erased all his posts (and I mean all of them, not just the ones on this thread) and closed the thread without explanation. Is that a normal way to proceed?

Regarding the "Star wars Force awakens trailer rescored" thread, nobody was shocked by the tone of the discussion and the moderators didn't receive any report cause someone is called a "dick" on a thread that a lot of us red, or they received some and thought it was acceptable. In both ways, it seems better to be a well known composer than a total unknwown on vi control. Some are more equals than others...


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## Hannes_F (Feb 27, 2017)

Mathieu,
if that is your opinion then you should perhaps write a letter or a mail to Frederick, and make a reasonable suggestion how to fix the problems that you see. It is quite unlikely that Frederick will read this thread without somebody inviting him, so we are turning in circles.

You guys are not differentiating enough between what the moderator team does and what is reserved to the forum owner. No moderator can delete a user's account. So in this case you need to address the man himself.


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## re-peat (Feb 28, 2017)

On the subject of deleting threads: anyone knows why the "Music & Criticism" thread got deleted? As far as I recall, no famous composers were insulted during that discussion, no advertisers were ill-spoken of, no swear words or foul language was used, there wasn't a single word uttered that could be interpreted as legally risky ... and yet, for some reason, it still got deleted. 
If it's not too much to ask, I would _really _like to know that reason. Thanks ad libitum.

_


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## tack (Feb 28, 2017)

re-peat said:


> On the subject of deleting threads: anyone knows why the "Music & Criticism" thread got deleted?


Didn't the person who started that thread request his account be deleted? Perhaps deleting accounts also deletes all threads started by the account holder, in addition to posts on other threads.

Or, maybe I'm (mis)remembering another encounter. Do you mean this thread?

And now that I look, your posts seem to have been deleted, Piet, and the only remnants are quoted text. From your question I gather this was done without your knowledge or having received any warning?


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## Dave Connor (Feb 28, 2017)

Sam said:


> ...when I posted my "trailer rescored", some of you called me a liar...and a dick.Some of you have violently and insistently asked me to present evidence...while I only came here to talk about music (in Member Composition section).I was even "assaulted" because I refused to share my template...


I never saw what you describe above. If I had I would have defended you exactly as I defended Hans. The reason I would defend either of you is because you are forum members - not your notoriety.

There has been a consistent theme here that Hans doesn't do his own work. I argue against that because you can plainly hear his musical sensibility in all his work. I think it is poor musicianship to not be able to hear that. If he does a score that seems to be outside of what he is capable of then it's a fair question to ask him about it. If he answers just as if you answer a question, both of you should be afforded the courtesy of being believed you have spoken truthfully. Attacking that person as a liar is both speculative and uncivil as well as against forum rules. As you have said, there are forums where apparently it's okay to accuse in that way but this isn't one of them. Nothing wrong with that. It stems from Frederick Russ' very civil helpful nature.


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## desert (Feb 28, 2017)

Mathieu A said:


> Headshot just said to HZ he didn't trust him, surely in a funny way but nothing more. No insult. But it seems too much for all of those who adore him and reported Headshot to the moderators. And even after that, they could, in order :
> 1 : notice Headshot about the posts they judge unacceptable (while oddly the french bashing was ok, no need to moderate that)
> 2 : ask everyone to calm down
> 3 (last resort) : close the thread
> ...


Yes, this is the very ironic part.

Headshot accused of faking a mockup with real instruments = 50 pages of insults with no one receiving bans
Headshot accuses HZ of faking = instant ban


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## Dave Connor (Feb 28, 2017)

desert said:


> Headshot accused of faking a mockup with real instruments = 50 pages of insults with no one receiving bans
> Headshot accuses HZ of lying and taking credit for others work= instant ban



Just to be accurate.


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## re-peat (Feb 28, 2017)

tack said:


> Do you mean this thread?



Yes, that’s the one. Thanks, Tack.

Now I understand why I couldn’t find that thread: I searched for it via my control panel’s “Your content”. But as my posts in that thread were deleted, they’re obviously no longer part of ‘my content’ either …

And no, I wasn’t informed of any of that. Nor warned.

The official who deleted those posts didn’t even have the courtesy to leave a message in place saying that certain posts were deleted, let alone give us an explanation as to the reason why.

Which is my next question: why? Why delete a post that was written almost 5 months ago, during all of which time, no one (apart maybe from its addressee) appeared to consider it inappropriate. (In fact, that post received nearly 30 likes during its lifespan, which seems to indicate that its content resonated to quite some extent with a part of this community, no?)

If any moderator or administrator happens to read this: care to explain the reasoning behind the decision? Please?
Even if only to exclude the idea, that certain members yield enough power to be able to have other members’ posts deleted if they don’t happen to like what’s written in them, from the list of possible explanations. Because that would be a deeply unsettling state of affairs, I’m sure you’ll agree.

_


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Mar 1, 2017)

Sam said:


> You are not accurate :
> 
> you will understand soon the huge difference between :
> "I don't believe what you say" and "you are a liar", even if "I don't believe you" implies that your interlocutor may lie.
> ...



Definitely that sounds not that you said that he is a liar, agreed. But lets be at least a bit more complete, also for the public here, right?

Lets take your first comment:

"
Hans Zimmer is also very good at Big band :

(link to his track)

this man is just incredible...the diversity of his scores is just...wow...it's like twenty composers in one...just wow...

Please Hans ! more Big band !

*PLEASE HANS !! A BIG BAND MASTERCLASS !! PLEASE !!"*

_So I guess that first comment by you was just for informational reasons, right?..._

After another forum member posted that:

".. not sure if you are being serious or very, very sarcastic...
... I do know what it should be, though..."

you answered the following:

"Of course, it was sarcasm.

If Hans Zimmer has entirely written and orchestrated this piece, as he said, I'm the King of the Universe and Santa Claus is my father.

But I do not prevent anyone from believing."

HZ said then the following in one of his posts:

"Actually, I did write and orchestrate that whole piece. That's why it's not all that good."

Your reaction to his comment was then:

"Sorry, I don't buy it. This piece is way too impressive technically for having been made by a "Big band rookie"."

After that post he reacted and asked you if you are calling him a Liar?

_So..come one..when somebody would do this kind sorry shitty fueling fire into the can to heat a discussion thing then I would at a certain point ask you the same question._

And after that you even start to demand that HZ sends you a midi to prove that he didn´t talk shit? Are you totally nuts in your head? What´s wrong with you, dude?!:

"Sorry again but I don't know you...do I have to take your word for it and put aside my critical sense just because you are famous ?
Please send me an excerpt from the project (midi file), and if it's true, I will subscribe to your masterclass."

I never was a big friend or supporter of HZ but one thing I will tell you: If someone comes along and do such a bullshit highschool talk with me I would shovel up my *major fist in his butt at the pace of lightspeed and show him some manners,* and don´t think I am shitting here. It is the brutal truth! You know what I think you need to learn, yeah, you should learn some respect, because I think you lack of respect towards others. You have a sharp tongue and you don´t know when to stop which can be a major mistake if not considering so, in the end I think you totally deserve your kick!

Over and out!


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## douggibson (Mar 1, 2017)

re-peat said:


> Yes, that’s the one. Thanks, Tack.
> 
> Now I understand why I couldn’t find that thread: I searched for it via my control panel’s “Your content”. But as my posts in that thread were deleted, they’re obviously no longer part of ‘my content’ either …
> 
> ...



Hey re-peat. 

I tried sending you a message, but it seems you have a lock on who can send messages.
I had a post erased (with my permission, and the moderator asked me if it was ok) from the thread you are referring to. I just wanted to pass along what I know from that exchange. 
I bet that is frustrating not knowing why your posts were deleted, and I hope you get a solid answer.

However there really was no way this thread was going to turn into a "musicians helping musicians" thread again. 
A moderator, most likely thought the exact same thing, and took honest action to fix this and keep the peace. 
I think he was correct to lock the thread. I would bet the mod simply wanted to keep things from blowing up into personal attacks (I think the pouring gas on flames images are still there.)

Another member (not you) had really crossed the line - in my opinion which I posted about asking for its removal - about 6 pages before your post so it was already a very toxic thread.


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## tack (Mar 1, 2017)

douggibson said:


> and took honest action to fix this and keep the peace


I disagree. Honest action would have been to notify the parties whose posts were removed, rather than summarily and quietly deleting them.

I would rather spend my time on forums where I'm not looking over my shoulder wondering if my content is unwittingly vanishing into the bitbucket in my wake.


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## re-peat (Mar 2, 2017)

Doug,

Locking a thread is one thing, but arbitrarily deleting posts, without explanation or informing anyone why, is quite another. Especially a post that nobody considered probematic for five whole months. Why did it suddenly have to go?

I agree that the thread wasn't particularly strong on "musicians helping musicians". It had other interest though, not without relevance to the community. And besides, if they were to delete all content from V.I. that doesn't fully qualify as "musicians helping musicians"-material, they'd be left with painfully little, I fear. Not that I'd mind, but either that motto means something and is adhered by consequently, or it isn't. You can't just invoke it when it's convenient or serves your purpose, and then ignore it at all other times.

Which brings us to that double standard thing again. I mean, doesn't it give pause to think when colourful phrases like "major-fist-in-the-butt at light speed" and "complete nutcase" are allowed to stand (not to mention the heated political post-election discussions that literally swarm with foul and eyebrow-raising aggressive language), while my observations — worded with more civil restraint than I have ever shown and, in this case, also expressing widely shared views — are considered out-of-line?

Seems only one explanation to me, and it isn't a nice one. The more so because the peacekeeper responsible doesn't seem to have the courage and decency to explain this sillyness.

_


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## douggibson (Mar 2, 2017)

re-peat said:


> Doug,
> 
> Locking a thread is one thing, but arbitrarily deleting posts, without explanation or informing anyone why, is quite another. Especially a post that nobody considered probematic for five whole months. Why did it suddenly have to go?
> _



I can't speak at all for the moderator, and please don't think I don't hear what you are saying.
I have no horse in this race. I posted because it seems you have not been communicated too, and know radio silence can be frustrating. I agree, that can leave a person "hanging" and wondering. 
Also as a New Yorker ..... I don't mind the fowl language. I personally really enjoy reading your posts,
and respect your opinions. I would even go as far to say you, and a few others, are one the members whom I always try and read or listen to music posted.

You are also right about other comments allowed to stand. I fully confess in one forum thread post I called someone a total D#$K when he posted a photo of Trump with a Rambo machine gun and an eagle on his shoulder etc. Trust me...... his music was just as tacky. That thread is now gone too....... but I dropped a few F-bombs. (I said I was a New Yorker right ?)

I hope you get a straight answer. You can always write the mod and ask. 

About half way through the thread you are referring to a member posted some comments that I felt were really out of line. Basically it was gossip on the mental health of a unnamed member. I posted a public reply that this was way out of line. I asked that person to remove this from his reply.

Look, I guess it is impossible to be discreet about all of this. Basically my thoughts were that JSG was posting bullshit about you. When I read his post, you specifically came to mind as the person he was referring to.(I may be 100% wrong but this is what honestly popped into my head) I posted that this way out of line for so many reasons.

The next day I received a polite message from the moderator that he agreed with me, and had deleted that comment from the thread. He asked if it was ok, basically to keep the thread on topic, to delete my post calling out JSG since those statements were no longer viewable. I said sure, of course. So my post was removed - and with 100% my permission and approval. I also hope, that the moderator gave a stern warning to JSG in addition to the edits on his post. I have no idea if this happened.

Well.....we got about 6 more pages and like the end of a pub crawl the thread basically devolved into talk of meditation...... At which point you (Re-peat) arrived to give life back to the party. I think the pouring gas on flames images are still there. 

Personally I smiled, and I think laughed and clapped my hands a few times reading your post that is now gone. I am glad you speak directly and your post said what I certainly was felling towards the end of the thread. 

I don't have any idea of any possible Vi-Control conspiracy, but if memory serves me correct I believe you stated at one point and I am paraphrasing "You are the most despicable person I have ever had the mis-fortune of meeting." That makes me laugh pretty hard, but that was not going to turn into a "musicians helping musicians". 

I just wanted to write you after I saw your posts wondering what happened. I can't comment on anything else. I have no official association with VI-Control..... and as I said I have no horse in this race. 

I would just say -- for you not me --- write the moderator directly and ask. I tried sending you a message privately so I would not have to post this on the forum, but it seems you have a lock on how people can write you through the site. Is it possible the mod. may have tried to write you and found the same restriction ? I have no idea. I know I would have preferred to have posted this in a private conversation. 

I wish you all the best

Doug


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## Ashermusic (Mar 2, 2017)

re-peat said:


> D
> 
> I mean, doesn't it give pause to think when colourful phrases like "major-fist-in-the-butt at light speed" and "complete nutcase" are allowed to stand (not to mention the heated political post-election discussions that literally swarm with foul and eyebrow-raising aggressive language), while my observations — worded with more civil restraint than I have ever shown and, in this case, also expressing widely shared views — are considered out-of-line?
> 
> ...



Well, as you know while I respect you greatly and I understand your point of view, I still maintain that _whatever_ the motivation, comments on the music are fair game, comments on someone's opinions are fair game, but attacks on anyone's personality, character, etc should not be tolerated and the moderators should:

1. Remove the posts
2. Inform the poster that he/she has crossed a line and tell them to knock it off.
3. Suspend them if they do not head it. Ban them if they continue.

And yes, I have been guilty of it myself and I deserved the consequences and criticism that came to me. In one case, I publicly apologized to the person.

What I continue to need to learn, and I am not alone here in this, it is _not_ dishonest not to say everything you are thinking.


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## re-peat (Mar 2, 2017)

*Jay,
*
If comments on someone’s opinion are fair game, then my comments were the fairest in the land as they focused largely on someone’s opinion … of himself. And the remainder of my comments simply communicated my viewpoint that the musical encounter with JSG was, for me anyway, a very disappointing one. Develop both those themes into a few well-spiced paragraphs and you have more or less what I contributed to that thread.

*Doug,
*
Thanks for that. I would like to say a lot more actually, but it would be mostly expressing agreement, gratitude and sympathy, so please consider all that deeply felt but not written out.
It appears that my thoughts ran along near identical lines as yours during the unfolding of that thread. The second I read ‘Asperger’s’ it was quite clear in which direction JSG’s cannonade was pointed.

Ironically — all the more so because he’s decided to join us here — the insinuation of me suffering from Asperger originates with none other than Jay _“attacks on people’s personality should not be tolerated”_ Asher. He was the first to share this bit of remarkable diagnosis of me with the V.I.-public, back in 2009. (To be truthful: I admit to, on occasion over the years, having given cause to a justifiably concerned frown.) And since then people have kept raking the diagnosis up whenever it suited them. That there’s no truth to it has of course never bothered any one of these sanctimonious Preservers Of The Fair & Tactful Game.

So, *Jay*, back to you: I wouldn’t be so quick to claim the moral high ground here and wear your judgemental hat (alas your favourite headwear), if I were you. Not here, not now. You have no authority or prestige in these matters whatsoever.

_


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## Ashermusic (Mar 2, 2017)

Indeed, you are right I did that Piet, but I should _not_ have and would _not_ do so now. I regret it and if I have not previously apologized, I do so now.

If I don't stick to that I should be reprimanded by the moderators and told to knock it off.

And again, just my view, comments on someone's opinion of _themself_ instead of just their opinion of their _skills_, is crossing a line that should not be allowed. And "well spiced" is a more benign description than I would assign them.

If you disagree, then you disagree.


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## zacnelson (Mar 2, 2017)

Who is JSG?


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## desert (Mar 2, 2017)

re-peat said:


> Doug,
> 
> Locking a thread is one thing, but arbitrarily deleting posts, without explanation or informing anyone why, is quite another. Especially a post that nobody considered probematic for five whole months. Why did it suddenly have to go?
> 
> _



And it received over 40 likes! I have a feeling the OP got burnt so hard that he had to report your post and get it deleted.

Actually i have no idea why...


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## douggibson (Mar 2, 2017)

re-peat said:


> *Doug,
> *
> Thanks for that. I would like to say a lot more actually, but it would be mostly expressing agreement, gratitude and sympathy, so please consider all that deeply felt but not written out.
> _



Of course. Nothing else needs to be said. Much respect to you my friend, and best wishes. 

I don't have the post anymore, but I outlined why I felt this is one of the worst things that could be possibly said.
I don't the time or energy right now to re-type out the points again. One of the points was that this could actually be taken literally, and really is slander. It's whole design is to discredit the other person both now and into the future.
Plus, (not referring to re-peat or anyone specific here. Anyone reading this should assume any previous speculation 100% FALSE) even if some member of this forum did have Aspergers let's have an ounce of humanity. People with any kind of bi-polar, OCD, depression etc.; it's not like they have strived their whole lives to get this. I have worked with people who have these conditions, and they are people. They are people. They are also often brilliant creative artist too. 

Far worse are the clients that suffer from cranium-rectal-inversion-syndrome*. I have had few of them too. 
(*This is not a real condition. It's my humor saying they have their heads up their ass.)

I'll wrap up here. Just anytime I see anything like the comment on medical speculation I don't care who it is, or directed at. I will call it out. This is different than me calling the trump guy a "total dick". Yes, I can see how that is out of line, and yes I can understand why that would be removed. But I can't imagine anyone reading my comment and thinking there was_ literally_ a large penis - on its own, with no body - posting trump inauguration compositions. However the comments I referred to above can be taken as fact when it is simply petty gossip.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 2, 2017)

douggibson said:


> Plus, (not referring to re-peat or anyone specific here. Anyone reading this should assume any previous speculation 100% FALSE) even if some member of this forum did have Aspergers let's have an ounce of humanity. People with any kind of bi-polar, OCD, depression etc.; it's not like they have strived their whole lives to get this. I have worked with people who have these conditions, and they are people. They are people. They are also often brilliant creative artist too.



Absolutely true. As someone who may have it mildly myself, I should not have gone there in 2009 and I regret it.


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## G.R. Baumann (Mar 3, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> As someone who may have it mildly myself



..... cough cough......may have it *mildly*?....

Swwwwwooooosh...(runs like Hell!...)


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## Ashermusic (Mar 3, 2017)

G.R. Baumann said:


> ..... cough cough......may have it *mildly*?....
> 
> Swwwwwooooosh...(runs like Hell!...)




Nah, I know you were joking (I think?)

Anyway, I have over the years learned a bit about it, and here is why I say that about myself. I have some indicators, not others.

Avoids eye contact- I don't.

Does not like to be physically touched- again, not me.

Clumsiness- absolutely me. Get me away from the piano and I drop things, bump into things, trip, etc.

Overly verbose and loud- clearly me.

Compelled to "tell the truth" whether anyone asks me to or cares- again, obviously me.

Intense pre-occupation with narrow subjects- at times, me.

Atypical language use-when I was in the ninth grade, my entire classroom broke pout in laughter when I used the word "exquisite" and I was bewildered.

Repetitive motor behaviors - not me.

Lacks empathy for others -not me.

Does not understand others emotions -true when I was young, not true now.

Has trouble fitting in, does not understand personal space, etc. - Very true, especially in my teenage years, constantly trying to do things to win people over that produced the opposite result. Over the years, I have developed coping mechanisms and if you went to the NAMM show with me, I think you would see that reflected.

And on and on. But certainly, I have no right to be making a diagnosis of someone else, and especially not in heated discussions on the internet.


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## G.R. Baumann (Mar 3, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Nah, I know you were joking (I think?)



Of course I was!


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## Flaneurette (Mar 3, 2017)

Didn't follow/understand any of this, but does it matter who wrote what? 

Most professionals I know, rarely do everything by themselves. I found that the more professional they are, the more they hire and ask others. Professionals know their specialties as good as their limitations, that's what makes them who they are. At the end of the day, it's still a job that needs to get done.


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## thov72 (Mar 4, 2017)

What would you do Sam, if you met Hans and talked about the Big Band piece? I think it would rather be a decent conversation among professionals. Not seeing - and not even hearing, like on the phone- people we are "talking" to makes us sometimes react differently than in "real conversations". Having others read it, makes us react even more different. Sometimes we say something that others find inappropriate. In a normal conversation, people are more cautious. If they don´t understand something, they can ask right away.
The internet makes all of this very difficult. That´s why there are so many rules, and, as Hannes pointed out, it´s not always 100% fair .....
Sam, this was a problem between you and rctec....so why don´t you sort it out with Hans? You know his name here, so pm him.
Would be bad to lose eiter one of you.
Its not nice to get banned. But I can assure you that I don´t think there would be any hard feelings if you continue staying here. On the contrary, many people would be happy.
But if everyone who got banned leaves---and starts an own forum....I mean, would that be a solution?
Please everybody reconsider your motifs.

I never read the discussion which caused all of this. but I am sorry it happened. And I would also be sorry to lose Hans because your comment *was *offensive.

So this is an invitation to sort it out. 
Cheers,
Thomas


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## G.R. Baumann (Mar 4, 2017)

Sam said:


> The question is : "when it becomes industrial, what consequences it has on your career, on the image you are projecting to the world, and on the young composers who take you as model and want to follow you"


_
...consequences it has on your career...
_
Disproportional relationship between financial gain and loss of time, the latter being the most important in your life, the former an inevitable burden.

_...on the image you are projecting to the world..._

Stay authentic, leave the (utterly boring) marketing to Professionals, but do have the final decision.
_
...consequences...on the young composers who take you as model and want to follow you...
_
Good point, but the answer can only come from the young composers, can it not? Apart from that, turn around and tell them to find their own way.  

Having said that, if you should find yourself in a position where your film scores have a considerable impact, to put it mildly, on the current Zeitgeist, this question no longer can be answered from one, your position only, but has many more dimensions to be considered.

shrugs
Best
G


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## Sebastianmu (Mar 4, 2017)

What I find so funny about people bickering with Hans (if not outright attacking him) on this forum, is the barely disguised pleasure they derive from bragging about their _lack-of-admiration_, the ostentatious '_See?! I don't care that you're famous!_'-attitude, that, at least to me, always comes off as quite childish. 

That said, and having followed the thread, I think the ban is ridiculous.


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## Dave Connor (Mar 4, 2017)

I'm mystified by a questioning of such a firmly established composer who's known for having a musical diversity and written so many wonderful scores. Even if you generally don't like his music, his signature is all over the scores he's done from day one. Why in any case is it important to question his integrity in claiming his own authorship? That get's done because he _is_ famous correct?
_
Just because you're famous does that mean I can't doubt you? Even though because you're famous is precisely the reason I am questioning you. _That's having it both ways. If it's such an important issue unrelated to the person's notoriety, where are all the questions to unknown composers as to their honesty and integrity in claiming authorship of their work?


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## ghostnote (Mar 4, 2017)

I love having hans around and I guess the admins here too. His posts seem to provide some serious ad revenue. What really annoys me though is the ass kissing. He's one of my heroes altough I'm more of a Goldsmith and Howard fan, but he's also not the midi messiah.

I wasn't quick enough to read all of headshots posts in that thread, but he has a point and he was questioning things in a polite and reasonable way. His ban was unnecessary imo.

Btw the posts demanding a screencast of the star wars trailer were the most ridiculous thing I've ever read here.


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## Flaneurette (Mar 4, 2017)

Sam said:


> The question is : "when it becomes industrial, what consequences it has on your career, on the image you are projecting to the world, and on the young composers who take you as model and want to follow you"



I am not sure what Hans wants to project, but my feeling is that he doesn't want to project anything. Despite his fame he's really down to earth. I mean, he is on this forum... how many celebrities do that? right?



Industrial... yes. It is an industry, production. A factory and sometimes a sweatshop.

There is nothing cinematic or Hollywood about someone like Mahler, sitting in a cabin in the woods having all artistic freedom in the world to compose whatever he wants. With film, you have to work with real people, who have deadlines, budgets, ego's and what not. It's a snakepit. There is this illusion that life is great when you're a famous film composer. I am sure that it's not. That is rarely talked about. Maybe this is what people need to consider when they want to go _down that path_ and work in the industry, because it is an industry.

That is why I don't compose for film. I don't want music to be a job. But that is a private decision. But I know very well that if wanted to do something similar like Hans, I need to change my _attitude_. It's not selling your soul or _sellingout_, it simply means making a lot of compromises, which includes collaboration, outsourcing and hiring others who are better than you are at something. That is what professionals do. My doctor does it too. He hires specialists, assistants, a cleaner and someone who brings him a cup of coffee. It becomes a job. Just like anything else.

About being banned, I don't know what happened. But the moderators and forum owner(s) have the final decision. It's their house. And we are guests. What I do know, is that this thread is heading the same way. Instead of making peace, this thread is aimlessly fueling resentment and unnecessary problems.

Have you contacted the mods or owner? talk to him. Figure it out. Make peace. He's human, just like you.


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## Flaneurette (Mar 4, 2017)

Just took some of my time to read the whole thread. If you didn't mention it, I guess I would never have read it. Streisand effect... 

I'm not in the position to judge on banning someone. But I am glad that thread was closed. From what I could piece together, it was inflammatory and accusing. I think that is against the rules of the board. Does it deserve a ban? I don't know. But it wasn't a decent discussion. Have you asked the administrator? maybe they can clarify.


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## Hannes_F (Mar 6, 2017)

Sam said:


> It is because of this kind of subtle censorship, who talk about peace and flowers



Well, the thing that bothers me a bit here is that as far as I know I am the only (ex)moderator who ever talks about (forum) peace. But I did not ban you.

There are other (current) officials who do not talk about peace and certainly not about flowers, on the contrary they can be quite explicit. One of them banned you.

So I ask you: If your analysis is faulty, how can you then come to the correct conclusions?

I would really recommend you write to the forum admin (Frederick) and politely ask for an explanation. Before jumping to conclusions.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 6, 2017)

What i want to know is how someone gets banned and is back almost immediately under another name. Presumably with another email address I guess, but man, I would not want to be anyplace where I was not wanted, personally. i am not _that_ interested in making points.


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## Dave Connor (Mar 6, 2017)

ghostnote said:


> What really annoys me though is the ass kissing. He's one of my heroes altough I'm more of a Goldsmith and Howard fan, but he's also not the midi messiah.


What would you think about a thread here where Jerry Goldsmith asks, _Are you calling me a liar? _almost immediately? You would say nothing? How about if Howard was told, _You're a record producer - I'm sorry but orchestral scores like the one's you deliver are not possible from a rookie like you.
_
It's not that these guys need their asses kissed or that they can't be questioned about anything they do, it's that they have a track record and deserve to be treated with an ounce of respect. If they answer a question, then you can decide as to it's honesty but do we want established composers questioned as to their basic character as human beings? It's a music forum! Not a character assassination forum!

Most people here do not want a film composer on the order of Hans Zimmer or Jerry Goldsmith coming here and being subject to personal attack (which he definitely was.) Ask a music question! Don't make it a miserable experience for the guy! He won't come back and give all the helpful advice a guy like Hans does! Keep your questions about their moral character to yourself or create a forum called, All the Lying Film Composers Working Today - if your so desperate to go that far off topic.


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## Dave Connor (Mar 6, 2017)

Sam said:


> ...maybe you didn't read my thread : The Force Awakens Trailer Rescored. Was my own integrity "attacked" because I am famous ? no, but just because some of you can't believe or have been pissed off by my John Williams parody.This is exactly the same for me : I can't believe. And I didn't "attack" Hans the way some of you attacked me..


No I did not read a single word of that thread and have not heard your mockup. I am against personal attacks here as I have said. If it's your work it's your work. Since I'm not familiar with your work and not aware of a body of work spanning decades I would have nothing to compare it to. That's not grounds to accuse you of anything but if you have proven your abilities for decades why would I doubt you for a second? I already know what you're capable of.

In any case I would not question or accuse you by saying, _a human being cannot lie? _of lying about your work unless you put up a London Phil Star Wars recording that I owned and could prove irrefutably wasn't your work.


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## ghostnote (Mar 6, 2017)

Dave, I did say more than those 2 lines which you quoted, please put that into context.

To clarify: As much as I dislike members with a special status, I'm absolutely against calling other members liars or puting them down in any way. And it doesn't make a difference what's your name. With that comment I've tried to say that I'm not a fanboy, or at least don't want to be one...

However, as I said, I couldn't read all of headshots posts. Questioning is OK, having an opinion maybe, but insulting a member not.


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## ghostnote (Mar 6, 2017)

Another thing I'd like to add: Calling someone a liar based on assumptions(!) that he or she can't write jazz, read notes or whatever just because his or her career has started in an unconventional way is pure speculation and plain wrong.

On the other side: What would have happened if Hans would've been be a normal member? Would the thread had been closed? I don't think so. I still think the ban was unnecesarry.


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## Dave Connor (Mar 6, 2017)

ghostnote said:


> Dave, I did say more than those 2 lines which you quoted, please put that into context.


 I didn't take issue with the other things you said. By way of comparison I was saying that composers of the stature we have mentioned should be afforded enough respect where they are not questioned about their character. And yes, neither should anyone else. My point was, _Think about how perfectly awful it would be for Jerry Goldsmith or John Williams to come here and cheerfully engage the forum in regards to their work and within no time at all feel compelled to address the issue of being a _liar. That's what happened to Hans; it's not the first time and it isn't any kind of _fanboy _disposition that calls it out for the inexcusable behavior that it is. I don't mean that as pointed at you but at anybody that considers that kind of thing ok.


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## ghostnote (Mar 6, 2017)

I get your point Dave, you still don't seem to understand mine. I wasn't comparing character, just my personal preferences of music. It was just a "btw" to get my points across and say that I'm not on either side, but think the ban was unnecessary.

So please stop making an elephant out of a fly ok.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 6, 2017)

I'm just adding a comment hoping that this gossip column thread continues. Famous composers, hurt feelings, drama! Reading it beats the heck out of trying to make sense of the real world.


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## Dave Connor (Mar 6, 2017)

ghostnote said:


> I get your point Dave, you still don't seem to understand mine. I wasn't comparing character, just my personal preferences of music. It was just a "btw" to get my points across and say that I'm not on either side, but think the ban was unnecessary.So please stop making an elephant out of a fly ok.


Apologies if it seems I'm picking on you - I'm not. (I said as much in my last post.) The point I'm addressing is: any defense of calling someone a liar (according to the person accused, which says a lot as to the nature of the exchange.) I further made my point but substituting other illustrious composers names and posing the question to all concerned, what awful behavior that is toward people who hardly deserve it. Don't have a bone to pick with you really. You can decide whether you defend that kind of treatment of established artists which it seems you are saying you don't.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 6, 2017)

Hubris.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 7, 2017)

Fun!


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## Dave Connor (Mar 7, 2017)

Sam said:


> You all repeat it again and again...but *there was no accusation*...disbelief or suspicion are not accusation.


I understood your point and the above definition when you posted it in the original thread. You still do not understand mine which I will make for the last time:

Regardless of your concept of what an accusation of lying is: whatever it was you did say to a world class composer (who was being very self-deprecating and good natured towards you personally) resulted in him asking if you were calling him a liar. Why would you be within a million miles of taking that tone with him? It's a public forum with a lot of interested parties who love hearing from someone who so expertly practices his craft. You took no thought of this? You are actually comfortable in derailing a thread by walking right up to the line of a hideous accusation which you then have to link charts and graphs to with paragraphs of explanation so that all the world may understand? Hans understood what you were saying and so did everyone else. Are you that clueless about what you did? Not just to Hans but to everyone? Not cool dude! You ruined a thread that everyone including HZ was enjoying! Now what? Six pages of explanation as to what ruining a thread is?


Don't you realize that anyone at anytime can pose what they consider a legitimate question that by nature is an insult to the recipient? Which can then rob the entire community of a pleasant civil exchange? How incredibly selfish and self centered it was for you to do that. I could ruin every single thread on this forum with lines of questioning such as yours - but what could be easier? You got a thread locked; a lot of people pissed off and prevented the exact thing we want here - musicians helping musicians.

We're not deaf btw. You don't think every last person here is aware when a composer does something outside his normal style and that it will always be followed by the inevitable question as to whether he wrote every last note? You are providing the honest, deep insight into that possibility as a bold, brave, noble individual ready to speak truth to power and expose him to all us lesser mortals? Are you serious??? Pitiful! Just ask the guy if he had any help and let him answer and then let everyone have the privilege of their own conclusion. Man! How many things did you get wrong in this episode??

You have to look at what you actually did and not what you think you're doing. Start with a little humility by acknowledging that there are musicians here that know where middle C is. If you can't muster any of that, trying doing what Hans said, _Stop and rethink what your doing._


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## Ashermusic (Mar 7, 2017)

Exactly, Dave, exactly.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 7, 2017)

Epic battle!

In this corner:

The most famous, accomplished rockstar film composer in the (world? I'm trying not to be American-centric) and his thousands of fans and supporters, with a fabulous career and what seems to be a strong sense of self combined with an impressive humility.

In THIS corner:

Some guy on the Internet.

Hmmm.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 7, 2017)

Dave, where's middle C? I've always wondered.


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## chimuelo (Mar 7, 2017)

What a touchy lot....


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## Kejero (Mar 8, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Dave, where's middle C? I've always wondered.



261.625565 Hz (with A = 440 Hz).

There you go. Musicians helping musicians.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 8, 2017)

The truth Hertz!


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## NYC Composer (Mar 8, 2017)

Oy.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 8, 2017)

(I sure hope Sam comes back with another salvo, The fun was just beginning.)


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## NYC Composer (Mar 9, 2017)

Heavy.


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## Rodney Money (Mar 9, 2017)

Sam said:


>



Actually, in my "studies" 1+1=3, and I have the 4 year-old as proof of those experiments, but it does go to show you that sometimes the greatest accomplishments can be reached by calibration.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 9, 2017)

Sam said:


> Anyway, I will soon "disappear", so relax.



Gee, I'll miss you.


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## robh (Mar 9, 2017)

Sam said:


> But making a radical interpretation of a disbelief to transform it into an accusation often happens.


*disbelief*
noun
inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real

My question is, how can one _*not*_ transform it into an accusation?

Rob


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## robh (Mar 9, 2017)

Yes, but not everyone experienced this:
"I gave birth to a son."
"It can't be true. You never were pregnant. Show me the DNA test."


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## Jaap (Mar 9, 2017)

Sam said:


>




Nice boom, well placed, nice use of EQ, I love the release time and that reverb is lovely. Would love to see a detailed out of the box walkthrough though! These days everything get so hyped... hard to believe what is real and what not!



Sam said:


>



The artwork feels a bit dated though! Would love to see a bit more modern GUI


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## G.R. Baumann (Mar 10, 2017)

Jaap said:


> Nice boom, well placed, nice use of EQ, I love the release time and that reverb is lovely. Would love to see a detailed out of the box walkthrough though! These days everything get so hyped... hard to believe what is real and what not!...The artwork feels a bit dated though! Would love to see a bit more modern GUI...


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## airflamesred (Mar 10, 2017)

Are we there yet?!


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## robh (Mar 10, 2017)

Sam said:


> let me "correct" this :
> -"I gave birth to a son *alone*"
> -"It can't be true"
> -"you must believe"
> -"please show evidence"


Ah. Got it. 

EDIT: However, now that I think on that some more, that still implies you believe someone must be lying, doesn't it? Because you presume one's abilities are far less than you expected, then it can't be true? 

Anyway, I'll drop it. I can see we are going around in circles.

All the best to you Sam,

Rob


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## Hannes_F (Mar 10, 2017)

Sam said:


>




1 + 1 = 2 is not exactly new but it is indeed a classical example for an axiom if you know what that is.

Which means that it is a bad example if you are searching for an unremovable truth that people (except yourself) fail to see. E. g. 1 + 1 = 2 is false in the dual number system. So if anything it serves as an example for the relativity of several seeming "truths" being dependent on the perspective, conditions, world views etc..


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## Ashermusic (Mar 10, 2017)

What happened to "I will soon disappear?


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## Ashermusic (Mar 10, 2017)

Sam said:


> It takes me more time than expected.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that you will take a look at my forum and maybe register. Now that you have tasted it, you'll get bored here without me. The truth is, even if you are not aware of it, you love me.



No, I don't. When someone casts doubt on another's integrity, even obliquely, with no evidence other than one's assumptions, I lose respect for that person. And I cannot love someone I don't respect


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## Ashermusic (Mar 10, 2017)

Sam said:


> I was ironic.
> of course you don't respect me ! and you're right. Good people always hate bad people, because that's what makes them good.




I don't hate you. I reserve hate for people who actually do terrible, consequential things that causes real harm to others. You re just a horsefly who nipped at a champion stallion., metaphorically speaking. Whether you are or are not a "bad person" I am not prepared to make a judgement on. But it certainly is accurate to say that I have a very negative view of you because of your behavior here.

And now, I am done addressing you. I have spent more than enough time doing so.


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## thov72 (Mar 12, 2017)

this is getting kind of funny. 
[deleted the rest of my message....]


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## kurtvanzo (Mar 12, 2017)

Can I point out the irony of headshot using other people's work to show off his own? I know the use of video from a trailer is common these days, but even the music seems pulled and edited from other recordings. Is this not the case? Is "The force awakens rescored" completely a midi mockup with no audio recordings? Because there are some things in there I have only heard in a real score, and would not know how to mock-up (besides using samples of recorded riffs/runs). But I don't claim to be the ultimate mockup pro so this could just be my shortcoming.

Sam, I don't know you, but I would believe your word if you say it is all midi, even without you posting your mockup. It just seems like a lot of work to say "I don't like modern film trailer music or what they did with this trailer". If you have those skills, perhaps you could use them to score film students work for free, or help new filmmakers to "discover" older styles of scoring. It would be a better use of your time.

And you've missed the point of the original trailer music that was there. To add tension to the beginning that leads up to the release: a star wars theme we recognize. But in films and trailers it is good to hold off on that reward, lead up to it. Building the tension is what makes the original version better, even if it's not a "traditional" arrangement. Sorry if this gets OT, I'm just surprised no one has made these points, and some are assuming TFA rescored is a midi mockup. Or perhaps you recorded it all with a real orchestra? Kudos if so.


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## mc_deli (Mar 12, 2017)

Come on guys, put a sock it in. The trolling is not flattering anyone.
Perhaps we could enjoy and marvel at some of the mystery in HS's and HZ's working methods and drop the bitterness.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 13, 2017)

Oh c'mon, Deli....jeez. You could screw up a two car funeral. I'm having fun here! Don't discount the deep value of extremely dumb fun...


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## Geocranium (Mar 19, 2017)

kurtvanzo said:


> Sorry if this gets OT, I'm just surprised no one has made these points, and some are assuming TFA rescored is a midi mockup. Or perhaps you recorded it all with a real orchestra? Kudos if so.



You must be a little late to the party. We had a 50-page discussion on this 5 months ago! 

Also it's indeed all done with midi save for one of the oboe parts I believe.


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## chimuelo (Mar 19, 2017)

I hope you had permission from Liberals to post their pictures here.
If it was taken off of Twatter or Facebook it's public, but I see lots of friends there, not sure they appreciate that.


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## douggibson (Apr 1, 2017)

You know the trailer is actually perfect. Before I clicked on it, based on your previous posts I thought to myself
"This is probably a guy who likes to masturbate looking at himself in the mirror" and well....... what do we get ?

Go away. Get over it. Grow up would you. Putting other members quotes in the video just shows what a small world you live in.


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## tack (Apr 1, 2017)

I don't think I will watch this movie -- not really catching my interest -- but I have to say the trailer music is really uninspired. It's the same banal trailer music drivel of the decade. Someone should rescore it.


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## chimuelo (Apr 1, 2017)

Good way to convert emotion into production.


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## mc_deli (Apr 3, 2017)

Wow. Comedy gold. 

The lack of moderation here is again insane. As much as I have sympathy for Headshot the video is out of order IMHO. 

Sam mate, get over it. The internet is full of trolls. You've done some amazing stuff on this site, and trolled a bit. And now you've been trolled, unfortunately by some well known people. 

Again, as an observer, I just think this whole deal makes the whole place stink.


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## Ashermusic (Apr 3, 2017)

Seek psychological help. Run, don't walk.


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## Ashermusic (Apr 3, 2017)

Sam said:


> Personal attacks again...You can only argue with personal attacks or "fake outrage". You never put a valid argument on the table.
> 
> You are confident Ashermusic, you are at home. But I invite you to come and speak with me on my forum, if you have the courage....with my rules: without insult but without censorship and offended people. So we will be able to measure the value of your intellectual capacities in a fair debate.



No interest. If I want to hang out with clowns, I will join the circus.


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## Ashermusic (Apr 3, 2017)

Sam said:


> as I said mate, personnal attacks...only...




You wrote: "
I will *never* stop because what happened here was unfair. And like Captain America, I hate injustice.

want to banish me again for no reason ?
I will come back...

close the topic ?
I would create another...

again and again until death...."

That to me clearly is not the attitude of a well integrated, healthy personality of anyone over the age of 15. Such a person would not put that much time and energy into it. He would say, "screw them, they don't want me here, I am gone."


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## Ashermusic (Apr 3, 2017)

I am not "your friend" in any way, shape, or manner.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 3, 2017)

For heaven's sake.

It's way beyond time for this inane thread to stop.

Please. We're getting reported posts now. Just put a cork in it.

Posting as a moderator.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 3, 2017)

You know what? I just turned off my extensions so I could see what was being reported.

I'm locking this thread pending discussion with other moderators. This isn't musicians helping musicians.

Yes, this is censorship. Sometimes that's a good thing.


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