# Metropolis ARK I; On SINE!



## coprhead6 (May 13, 2020)

Finally exporting some of their other products to SINE!
Also with a 27% discount!


We can also purchase and download à la carte !

This hopefully confirms discounts for all SINE ports.









Metropolis Ark 1


A complete orchestral scoring toolset: A huge orchestra, a choir, percussion, a grand piano, and a metal band. All recorded to be bold, loud, and breathtaking. Featuring the loudest imaginable dynamics, from mf up to fff. All instruments were recorded with first-call musicians at the Teldex...




www.orchestraltools.com


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## axb312 (May 13, 2020)

Thanks for the heads up. Was kinda expecting a better discount %. But this is Orchestral tools after all. My Questions:

How does it work for those who already own Ark 1?

Also, for those who know, I combine instruments from Ark 1 and 2, Ark 2 on the lower dynamics and Ark 1 on the higher dynamics. Is this possible in Sine?


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## Christophe (May 13, 2020)

I'm so disappointed.... I was expecting a much better discount.... It was something like 60% off last year with NI...


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## Sunny Schramm (May 13, 2020)

ohhhh....wonderfull news. I was waiting for this moment for months 😍
(not for the discount - just to add my ark to sine)


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## MarcelM (May 13, 2020)

can you buy single sections or only the complete package?


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## korgscrew2000 (May 13, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> Finally exporting some of their other products to SINE!
> Also with a 27% discount!
> 
> 
> ...



Now, buying à la carte really is game changing. I really wish Spitfire would do that.


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## axb312 (May 13, 2020)

korgscrew2000 said:


> Now, buying à la carte really is game changing. I really wish Spitfire would do that.



A la carte is a whole lot more expensive though...maybe useful if you want just 1 instrument.


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## KallumS (May 13, 2020)

Yes!!

Edit: Ark 1 isn't showing in my account


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## korgscrew2000 (May 13, 2020)

axb312 said:


> A la carte is a whole lot more expensive though...maybe useful if you want just 1 instrument.



Of course. For example, Albion Tundra. I just want the EVO instrument and not the brass, strings or woodwinds. Or I just want the synths from the Olafur Toolkit.


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## thomasjdev (May 13, 2020)

Does anyone know if those who already own Ark 1 for Kontakt also have to pay if we wanted the SINE version? I thought i read somewhere when first announced that existing license owners would be converted


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## vividmoog (May 13, 2020)

If going la carte what instruments stand out in Ark 1


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## dzilizzi (May 13, 2020)

Never mind - I found the answer.

I'm guessing if you own the Kontakt version, since they don't have licenses in the accounts yet, there isn't any crossgrade.


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## Breaker (May 13, 2020)

Good timing, I’ve just spent three days of setting up Arks to my new built-from-scratch template.


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## dzilizzi (May 13, 2020)

Breaker said:


> Good timing, I’ve just spent three days of setting up Arks to my new built-from-scratch template.


Isn't that how it always is?


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## Jaap (May 13, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I look on my account with them and they say I own nothing.
> 
> Considering I have BWW + one expansion, Time Macro & Micro bought from them directly and the first 3 Arks and the 2 BI's from an NI sale, there's a problem. I did email them once and never got a reply. Anybody else having this problem?



Yeah likewise, all my products I bought with them (3 ARK's, Time Macro etc) are also still not showing in the account.


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## dzilizzi (May 13, 2020)

Jaap said:


> Yeah likewise, all my products I bought with them (3 ARK's, Time Macro etc) are also still not showing in the account.


I found the answer on their site. The licenses will be imported later. They haven't done it yet. We will supposedly get an email on how to do it at some point.


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## method1 (May 13, 2020)

This is pretty cool, I really hope sine matures if it's going to be their platform going forward, it's a bit half baked right now.


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## Jaap (May 13, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I found the answer on their site. The licenses will be imported later. They haven't done it yet. We will supposedly get an email on how to do it at some point.



Yeah I remember reading that indeed also a few months ago when I setted up the account, will see it coming then  
Very nice that things are ported over to Sine and would be great to see how the ARK's will be in Sine.


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## KallumS (May 13, 2020)

vividmoog said:


> If going la carte what instruments stand out in Ark 1



Low Strings and Horns are my favourites in 1. I also like the drum kit but I know others hate it. Guitar and Bass are my least favourites.

I like the High Strings but there are noises in some of the Legato samples, sounds a bit like someone hitting a wine glass.


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## RogiervG (May 13, 2020)

awaiting a high discount when the berlin series are ported over...


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## vividmoog (May 13, 2020)

To bleaker what is your Ark template for PT, Cubase, Logic.


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## Breaker (May 13, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Isn't that how it always is?


The library I start to build the template with gets ported to a new sample player a few days later?
Maybe not exactly ALWAYS, but I get your point


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## Breaker (May 13, 2020)

vividmoog said:


> To bleaker what is your Ark template for PT, Cubase, Logic.


Not 100% sure if you were addressing me or what your question even was, but I answer “Cubase”


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## method1 (May 13, 2020)

Is OT going to move away from Kontakt going forward like SA has done?


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## vividmoog (May 13, 2020)

Hi Kallum, Low Strings and Horns are my favourites in 1. Wolfenstein low, Schwarzdorn horns,Rotdorn horns. How about the choirs Male and Female.


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## vividmoog (May 13, 2020)

Breaker said:


> Not 100% sure if you were addressing me or what your question even was, but I answer “Cubase”


Sorry l instead of r Breaker would it run on Nuendo. and are you willing to share it. regards


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## Igorianych (May 13, 2020)

You can buy tools separately
Interestingly, is this a discount price?


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## dzilizzi (May 13, 2020)

Igorianych said:


> You can buy tools separately
> Interestingly, is this a discount price?


I wonder if you buy some now, if the total price goes down accordingly?


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## Igorianych (May 13, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I wonder if you buy some now, if the total price goes down accordingly?



Haha!
I just bought a BWW, so I'll wait a while...


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## emilio_n (May 13, 2020)

I really waiting for this... but after all the recent sales only 27% off is not enough for me. I spent most of my budget until BF :-( I thought will be at least 50% as an introductory price. Bad luck for me. Maybe in the future, they will release a bundle with Ark2 with better price and I will buy immediately 😉


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## Jack Weaver (May 13, 2020)

Excuse me... but I own all the ARKs and I have to pay to import ARK 1 into SINE?

Do I understand this correctly?

.


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 13, 2020)

Jack Weaver said:


> Excuse me... but I own all the ARKs and I have to pay to import ARK 1 into SINE?
> 
> Do I understand this correctly?
> 
> .


I'd be surprised if that's true.

I think that Orchestral Tools has said in a past VIC post that customers who already own a library (that they purchased before SINE was released) don't have to pay to get the SINE version. 

So for purchasers after SINE has been released, it's less clear.
EDIT: Those who purchased libraries after May 13 2020 pay a fee, as explained @Bear Market 's post below.


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## Sunny Schramm (May 13, 2020)

Jack Weaver said:


> Excuse me... but I own all the ARKs and I have to pay to import ARK 1 into SINE?
> Do I understand this correctly?



NOPE - it takes some time for adding it and the others. Maybe try to locate your Ark1-Folder via Sine-Player and it will be imported? They told me on facebook that we dont have to pay extra. I will try it later by myself. But if I remember right...we will get an email when our existing libraries are availible for us in sine. Shouldnt take too long now that Ark1 is availibe in the store. I like the prices - if you only want the strings or brass its really cool I think!


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## jbuhler (May 13, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I wonder if you buy some now, if the total price goes down accordingly?


When I asked about this with JXL brass I was told we’d receive some credit toward the full library. I believe it was about 70% of the purchase price of the individual instruments would be applied to the full library.


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## dzilizzi (May 13, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> When I asked about this with JXL brass I was told we’d receive some credit toward the full library. I believe it was about 70% of the purchase price of the individual instruments would be applied to the full library.


So, at some point it is just worth buying the whole thing but only downloading what you need.


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## szczaw (May 13, 2020)

That is a step in the right direction, but to be truly content, I'd like to be able to buy separate articulations. I don't use them all. Most in fact I don't use. It's such a waste of money. Also providing low-fi (<44.1 khz) draft instrument would be nice and easy on the wallet. I'd only buy full versions of instruments that are actually used in some piece of music.


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## LamaRose (May 13, 2020)

Was hoping for a Spring sale from OT, particularly in light of current events... my finances never seem to coincide with their sales.


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## Bear Market (May 13, 2020)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> So for purchasers after SINE has been released, it's less clear.



I'd say it's quite clear:


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## gjelul (May 13, 2020)

Breaker said:


> The library I start to build the template with gets ported to a new sample player a few days later?
> Maybe not exactly ALWAYS, but I get your point




This was coming though - I believe they mentioned migrating from Kontakt to Sine in Jan 2019?


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## David Kudell (May 13, 2020)

szczaw said:


> That is a step in the right direction, but to be truly content, I'd like to be able to buy separate articulations. I don't use them all. Most in fact I don't use. It's such a waste of money. Also providing low-fi (<44.1 khz) draft instrument would be nice and easy on the wallet. I'd only buy full versions of instruments that are actually used in some piece of music.



Even better would be the option to only buy certain notes. I really only need the A minor chord.


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## Scamper (May 13, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> When I asked about this with JXL brass I was told we’d receive some credit toward the full library. I believe it was about 70% of the purchase price of the individual instruments would be applied to the full library.



Alright, that seems to be fair enough.
If you combine the price of JXL brass as a collection (749€) compared to getting every instrument separately (1059€), the collection is at about 70% of the price of the combined single instruments.
So, if you're upgrading to the collection at some point, you've only additionally paid for the single instrument "bonus", which is then 30% of the solo instrument, around 19€ for the Solo Horn for example.

Do is remember this wrong or was it initially said, that you cannot only buy single instruments, but also single mic positions?


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## jbuhler (May 13, 2020)

Scamper said:


> Alright, that seems to be fair enough.
> If you combine the price of JXL brass as a collection (749€) compared to getting every instrument separately (1059€), the collection is at about 70% of the price of the combined single instruments.
> So, if you're upgrading to the collection at some point, you've only additionally paid for the single instrument "bonus", which is then 30% of the solo instrument, around 19€ for the Solo Horn for example.
> 
> Do is remember this wrong or was it initially said, that you cannot only buy single instruments, but also single mic positions?


I don't think they ever promised you'd be able to buy individual mics. OT only said you would be able to download only the mics you wanted. I think folks inferred that you'd be able to buy individual mics as well as individual instruments. But I don't think it was ever stated. In any case, it's not being offered at this time.


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 13, 2020)

Bear Market said:


> I'd say it's quite clear:


Thanks. €54.90 is higher than I would have guessed, but I still haven't even tried downloading SINE yet. I've invested a lot of time into learning CAPSULE, learning Kontakt, and getting everything set up the way I like. So I'm in no hurry to do it all over again with a new player.


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## Chungus (May 13, 2020)

RogiervG said:


> awaiting a high discount when the berlin series are ported over...


You'll be waiting for something that won't come, then. Aside from a collection deal when-ever that becomes available, a discount rate as seen here is as low as it'll go, I reckon. Sadly.


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## muziksculp (May 13, 2020)

I have the Kontakt version of MA1, I'm guessing I can just get the SINE version of MA1 for free ?

I couldn't login to my OT account, I'm sure I have the correct PW, but no luck logging in, I requested a Password change/reset, but didn't get any email, and it's not in my Spam folder, any idea what's going on with this ?

I have a lot of OT (Kontakt) libraries, do I need to register again ?

*UPDATE:* I read in their support FAQ, that both old, and new customers have to re-register to their new website, I guess I have to re-register. 

Thanks.


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## José Herring (May 13, 2020)

Can't find it.


coprhead6 said:


> Finally exporting some of their other products to SINE!
> Also with a 27% discount!
> 
> 
> ...


I'm totally missing it. Can't find the Sine version just the Kontakt version. Is there some soft of direct link?


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## szczaw (May 13, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> Even better would be the option to only buy certain notes. I really only need the A minor chord.



LOL What I'm getting at is: I'd rather have access to full palette of handicapped instruments when making music and buy once I get something going, instead of limited number of very detailed instruments that I will NEVER fully use.


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## KallumS (May 13, 2020)

vividmoog said:


> Hi Kallum, Low Strings and Horns are my favourites in 1. Wolfenstein low, Schwarzdorn horns,Rotdorn horns. How about the choirs Male and Female.



Ooo yes, forgot about the choirs. Both good.


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 13, 2020)

Chungus said:


> You'll be waiting for something that won't come, then. Aside from a collection deal when-ever that becomes available, a discount rate as seen here is as low as it'll go, I reckon. Sadly.


Given enough years the prices will drop on older libraries. Or they'll go on sale. I just keep a running wish list of stuff that I want but can wait on.


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## Sunny Schramm (May 13, 2020)

Bear Market said:


> I'd say it's quite clear:



and bought before may 13?! ... their answer sounds definetely like "free transfer by adding our serial to sine-player" to me...


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## Bear Market (May 13, 2020)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Thanks. €54.90 is higher than I would have guessed, but I still haven't even tried downloading SINE yet. I've invested a lot of time into learning CAPSULE, learning Kontakt, and getting everything set up the way I like. So I'm in no hurry to do it all over again with a new player.



Yeah, same here. 

That price tag is for sure set at that level to create an incentive for new customers to commit to the SINE ecosystem.


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## AndyP (May 13, 2020)

Once the Arks have moved to the Sine player, do they still work in Kontakt?


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## MGdepp (May 13, 2020)

Strange ... here in Germany, opening the latest version of sine, I still only see JXL Brass and Layers. I get, that OT would have to transfer my purchases (I bought MA 1 upon release) before I will be able to see it! But shouldn't I see it at least in the store as an option to buy? Or are different parts of the world treated differently?


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## GingerMaestro (May 13, 2020)

In USA, I'm not seeing the Sine Version on their Website ? Perhaps it was released too early or there were download issues..


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## dzilizzi (May 13, 2020)

AndyP said:


> Once the Arks have moved to the Sine player, do they still work in Kontakt?


It looks like you can buy either edition. Or both for an extra 55 euros.


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## Sunny Schramm (May 13, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Strange ... here in Germany, opening the latest version of sine, I still only see JXL Brass and Layers. I get, that OT would have to transfer my purchases (I bought MA 1 upon release) before I will be able to see it! But shouldn't I see it at least in the store as an option to buy? Or are different parts of the world treated differently?



I´m in germany too and see it in the store. have you installed the latest version of sine-player? 1.03






ORCHESTRAL TOOLS


Virtual instruments for your music productions - Recorded in the world's finest studios




www.orchestraltools.com


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## MGdepp (May 13, 2020)

Sunny Schramm said:


> I´m in germany too and see it in the store. have you installed the latest version of sine-player? 1.03
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep! I checked it and it is 1.03! That is why I am puzzled ...

Maybe some cookies that have to be reset? Different bowser?


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## Breaker (May 13, 2020)

gjelul said:


> This was coming though - I believe they mentioned migrating from Kontakt to Sine in Jan 2019?


Well sometimes you just can’t wait.
And if took 16 months to port one library, I guess I will be doing a few template revamps before all the Arks and TIME’s are in SINE.


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## Breaker (May 13, 2020)

vividmoog said:


> Sorry l instead of r Breaker would it run on Nuendo. and are you willing to share it. regards


I don’t know if Cubase projects open in Nuendo nowadays.
But what I DO know is that copying my template perfected for my workflow won’t help you much. Plus I consider it intellectual property anyways.
You can PM me if you need help with something specific or just a push into a right direction - but don’t except anybody to do the actual work for you.


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## NekujaK (May 13, 2020)

If I own Ark 1 for Kontakt, I sure hope the SINE version doesn't require me to re-download and re-install all 69GB of samples again! Hopefully, the SINE player can simply leverage the Kontakt version samples 

I'm in no rush to migrate to SINE - the Kontakt/Capsule versions are serving me just fine. But if jumping to SINE requires another 69GB of storage for Ark 1... then its highly unlikely I'll make the move.


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## AndyP (May 13, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> It looks like you can buy either edition. Or both for an extra 55 euros.


I mean here in thread was written, if you bought it only this year in march the sine license costs extra money. What if you purchased them last year?
I would have to move the license over to Sine, but can I still use it in Kontakt? I don't understand that yet.


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## MGdepp (May 13, 2020)

NekujaK said:


> If I own Ark 1 for Kontakt, I sure hope the SINE version doesn't require me to re-download and re-install all 69GB of samples again! Hopefully, the SINE player can simply leverage the Kontakt version samples
> 
> I'm in no rush to migrate to SINE - the Kontakt/Capsule versions are serving me just fine. But if jumping to SINE requires another 69GB of storage for Ark 1... then its highly unlikely I'll make the move.


I am pretty certain you will have to download the content ...


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## David Kudell (May 13, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> I am pretty certain you will have to download the content ...


Download size will be much smaller thanks to downloading only the mics you want, plus the mic merge function will be awesome!


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## pawelmorytko (May 13, 2020)

Anyone else can't seem to see the news on either the site or the player?

Also... as great as it is to finally see an updated on the ports to SINE, I'm worried how long it will take to port all of the products if they only do it one product at a time at the current pace...


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## Chungus (May 13, 2020)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Given enough years the prices will drop on older libraries. Or they'll go on sale. I just keep a running wish list of stuff that I want but can wait on.


That's almost inevitable, but who knows how long that might take.

On a similar note; from the images linked here, it seems the full price of this port is the same as the Kontakt version? I'm surprised by this. With the benefit of not having to pay NI for license fees, I expected Sine versions to be priced lower.



pawelmorytko said:


> Anyone else can't seem to see the news on either the site or the player?


I can't see it, either.


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## babylonwaves (May 13, 2020)

NekujaK said:


> If I own Ark 1 for Kontakt, I sure hope the SINE version doesn't require me to re-download and re-install all 69GB of samples again! Hopefully, the SINE player can simply leverage the Kontakt version samples


you should get used to the idea that this will not happen. the kontakt samples are encoded by NI. i doubt that they will allow OT to decode their encryption using a product which is a competitor to their own sample play.


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## coprhead6 (May 13, 2020)

They seem to have rolled back their website! They aren't listing the sale price anymore, or the SINE version.


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## José Herring (May 13, 2020)

Guess they weren't fully ready yet. I was looking forward to it. I am hoping more companies go a la carte.


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## Dr.Quest (May 13, 2020)

Can't see that in my player either. Latest version as well.


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## Artemi (May 13, 2020)

haha


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## Michael Antrum (May 13, 2020)

I thought that the Sine player was still a bit of a car crash at the moment anyway. 

I have a fair few OT libraries, but there's no hurry to move to the new player just yet. I'd let them take their time and get it stable, which I'm sure they will do as soon as they can.

I've only have the most superficial look at the SINE player however. With all the issues fixed would it offer any advantages over Kontakt ?


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## MGdepp (May 13, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> I thought that the Sine player was still a bit of a car crash at the moment anyway.
> 
> I have a fair few OT libraries, but there's no hurry to move to the new player just yet. I'd let them take their time and get it stable, which I'm sure they will do as soon as they can.
> 
> I've only have the most superficial look at the SINE player however. With all the issues fixed would it offer any advantages over Kontakt ?


I will probably wait for all products being ready for a total switch. Even when Sine was totally ready at this point (I think it is more like you wrote, though ...), it just doesn't make sense to have two systems (Capsule and Sine) from the same developer running at the same time. And I have almost all of their libraries.

But MA 1 would habe been a decent start to just test Sine and see how it would work in my template. Just to give them feedback. That is why I want to give it a spin, as soon as it is ready unless I am swamped.


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## korruptkey (May 13, 2020)

I'm really not sure why people are expecting bigger discounts. Intro offers have never been more than 30% off. While this isn't quite intro, it's an intro on SINE. Hell when Woodwinds received "Revive" it only had 15% off.

The Kontakt crossgrade price for those who are buying Kontakt versions NOW also have a license aspect to it. Orch tool libs can be used on up to 3 machines. Sine libs as per their EULA is also 3 licenses. You're effectively paying for 3 additional licenses. Making it free for existing owners is likely just for loyalty. Or if they only work on lib related fixes in SINE version, then free for existing owner makes sense. But I see this as a benefit for existing owners as we can continue to use the kontakt version on more slaves.


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## Jack Weaver (May 13, 2020)

I asked OT today if upgrading a previously owned OT library would be free to port over to SINE and here's what they wrote back:

*From OT - *
_Keep in mind, we still haven't ported our past collections to SINE, only JXL Brass and Layers are available for the SINE Player right now.
We will send out an email when it is time to import your collections into your account!

No, if you have an existing collection that gets ported to SINE, you will get a free crossgrade to the SINE version.

._


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## dzilizzi (May 13, 2020)

AndyP said:


> I mean here in thread was written, if you bought it only this year in march the sine license costs extra money. What if you purchased them last year?
> I would have to move the license over to Sine, but can I still use it in Kontakt? I don't understand that yet.


It looks like if you already own a Kontakt library before 5/13/20, you should be able to get it free. Only now because you have a choice.


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## Christophe (May 13, 2020)

korruptkey said:


> I'm really not sure why people are expecting bigger discounts. Intro offers have never been more than 30% off. While this isn't quite intro, it's an intro on SINE. Hell when Woodwinds received "Revive" it only had 15% off.



The discount was more than that when it reached Native Instruments (50 or 60%)


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## Chungus (May 13, 2020)

Christophe said:


> The discount was more than that when it reached Native Instruments (50 or 60%)


Likely because it was NI doing the sale, not OT themselves.


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## easyrider (May 13, 2020)

I have chosen my download directory in Sine for LAYERS...does it install there or can I move it?


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## emilio_n (May 13, 2020)

Looks they are just testing because now the page no more offers the ARK1 on Sine. We are still on time they decide a flash sale or something like this!


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## José Herring (May 13, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> Looks they are just testing because now the page no more offers the ARK1 on Sine. We are still on time they decide a flash sale or something like this!


It's the OT version of a Spitfire inspired marketing gimmick. 

Next will be 1000 post on Ark 1 on Sine before the actual release.


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## dzilizzi (May 13, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I have chosen my download directory in Sine for LAYERS...does it install there or can I move it?


It installs there.


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## easyrider (May 13, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> It installs there.



Its only allowing the root?

How do I choose the directory?


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## korruptkey (May 13, 2020)

Chungus said:


> Likely because it was NI doing the sale, not OT themselves.



This, if many of you haven't seen the pattern, NI sales are as low as we'll likely ever see for any of these NKS libraries. I've been jumping on NI sales for pretty much anything I've ever been holding out on. Black Friday 2017 was 27% off for ARK I, 40% off for Berlin Series in 2018. 

Odds are if you didn't jump on NI sales, you missed out.


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 13, 2020)

Chungus said:


> Likely because it was NI doing the sale, not OT themselves.


It's true that they have sales less often.

In 2018--over the course of a year--most of their catalog was on sale at some point. 30% off Berlin expansions in the spring, and in the winter 40% off Berlin main libraries and around 50% off Arks (and a couple others). In 2019 it was the same, with the exception of the Berlin main series, which didn't go on sale in 2019 (and hasn't been on sale since).


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## dzilizzi (May 13, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Its only allowing the root?


The I'm not quite sure what you're asking. I told it to install to a drive and that was it. It's a nice little library.


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## easyrider (May 13, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> The I'm not quite sure what you're asking. I told it to install to a drive and that was it. It's a nice little library.



I don't want to install it to a drive root...I want to choose a folder on that drive to install it....


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## José Herring (May 13, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I don't want to install it to a drive root...I want to choose a folder on that drive to install it....


by default it makes its own folder but then you can move the contents and Sine will prompt you for the new location.


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## dzilizzi (May 13, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I don't want to install it to a drive root...I want to choose a folder on that drive to install it....


Ah, yeah, I don't remember being given a choice.


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## Chungus (May 14, 2020)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> It's true that they have sales less often.
> 
> In 2018--over the course of a year--most of their catalog was on sale at some point. 30% off Berlin expansions in the spring, and in the winter 40% off Berlin main libraries and around 50% off Arks (and a couple others). In 2019 it was the same, with the exception of the Berlin main series, which didn't go on sale in 2019 (and hasn't been on sale since).


I'm aware, I've looked at the sales history to try and find a pattern like a madman. No conspiracy wall yet, though. 

I'm still hoping we'll be seeing a completion days sale this month or the next.


----------



## pawelmorytko (May 14, 2020)

Hmm seems like the port is finally official today.

Also makes me wonder if we should expect the same discount on the other products when they are ported over. Main reason I'd love to know is that I can stop waiting for the "hopeful huge sale" and just buy Berlin Harp and Woodwind Soloists for 25% off with student discount


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## ceemusic (May 14, 2020)

I now have the serial number importer in my account. Anyone try it yet?
*Please enter the serial number of your previously purchased Orchestral Tools Metropolis Ark 1 - The Monumental Orchestra Kontakt Collection to get a FREE UPGRADE to the SINE version.*


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## pawelmorytko (May 14, 2020)

ceemusic said:


> Anyone try it yet?
> *Do you own Metropolis Ark 1 - The Monumental Orchestra? You can upgrade to the new SINE version for free.*
> Activate collection for SINE


Might give it a try later to cull some space on my ssd and just download one mic and only the instruments I actually use (sorry electric guitar, drum kit and piano)


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## ceemusic (May 14, 2020)

I installed the High Strings from Ark1 only. As expected I needed to re-download but I could open & use both the Kontakt & Sine versions in the same project. I have older projects with Kontakt so I'll probably cherry pick the Sine library until I know more. Already I'm finding features in Sine that I like very much.


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## Seiichirou Kubo (May 14, 2020)

Student discounts seem to work for the à la carte system as well.
I will buy only woodwinds and brass.
Thank OT for quickly approving the student discount.


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## MGdepp (May 14, 2020)

I just did the free cross grade. In case anyone is wondering - you can still use your Kontakt version after the cross grade!

I am currently downloading and that works well. The player looks clear and the excessive problems at launch seem to be better now. I did not have any crashes. I cannot say it looks ready for prime time, yet though! I only did some rough testing and these are my first impressions. In case I am missing something, please correct me!

1) Lots of automation options form Kontakt/Capsule are missing. There seem to be no CCs for the mic mixer and you cannot CC-automate things like switching between Sustain and Legato. There seems to be no automation capability of the plugin at this point. At least I cannot see any in Cubase.
That is already a no-go for me. I am not switching player to loose features.

2) The player looks clean and it is pretty easy to find your way. That is a plus, but I already know Capsule inside out, so it is not very important to me.

3) Sine is supposed to offer some enhancements in the sound, marketed to us with the term "Auto Volume Scaling". So, of course I was very interested to compare the low strings to the Kontakt version. I played several lines legato and copied the result to the Kontakt version. After adjusting volume settings, I could not find any striking difference, though. That was a bit disappointing! Maybe, this is going to be more obvious with other instruments, but with the low strings I couldn't notice anything worth mentioning.

Well, first impression is, I will probably stay with the Kontakt versions for some time, as expected. But I am always open to finding out new things about Sine that could change my mind!


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## gst98 (May 14, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> I just did the free cross grade. In case anyone is wondering - you can still use your Kontakt version after the cross grade!
> 
> 
> 3) Sine is supposed to offer some enhancements in the sound, marketed to us with the term "Auto Volume Scaling". So, of course I was very interested to compare the low strings to the Kontakt version. I played several lines legato and copied the result to the Kontakt version. After adjusting volume settings, I could not find any striking difference, though. That was a bit disappointing! Maybe, this is going to be more obvious with other instruments, but with the low strings I couldn't notice anything worth mentioning.



Pretty sure volume scaling refers to when you merge mics. When you merge it ensures that 15 mics that are merged together come out at the same gain as a single mic.


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## easyrider (May 14, 2020)

Sine looks rubbish on my 1440p superwide monitor


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 14, 2020)

gst98 said:


> Pretty sure volume scaling refers to when you merge mics. When you merge it ensures that 15 mics that are merged together come out at the same gain as a single mic.


It sounds a bit like the auto gain feature in Capsule.


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## coprhead6 (May 14, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> 3) So, of course I was very interested to compare the low strings to the Kontakt version. I played several lines legato and copied the result to the Kontakt version. After adjusting volume settings, I could not find any striking difference, though. That was a bit disappointing! Maybe, this is going to be more obvious with other instruments, but with the low strings I couldn't notice anything worth mentioning.



I don’t have ARK I, but in JXL we are able to adjust the legato volume (as a decible trim) in the SINE player. This has been very useful for fine tuning the realism of legato speeds.

For example, you might want to increase the legato volume for lyrical passages and decrease it for runs. 

Maybe you should try this to see if it helps?


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## Jaap (May 14, 2020)

Loaded the high strings from ARK 1 in SINE as I was curious about the mic merging option (downloaded all the mics), but when I click on merge it says "you already have opened up SINE player instance. To use this feature please proceed to the first instance you opened" but as far as I can see I have only one instance opened. Am I missing something in what I am doing?


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## Ruffian Price (May 14, 2020)

gst98 said:


> Pretty sure volume scaling refers to when you merge mics. When you merge it ensures that 15 mics that are merged together come out at the same gain as a single mic.


They're referring to this:





It clearly doesn't completely remove the need for sample editing though, JXL Brass still has the occasional bumpy transition, you can also hear one or two in the instrument demos on MA1's page


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## gst98 (May 14, 2020)

Jaap said:


> Loaded the high strings from ARK 1 in SINE as I was curious about the mic merging option (downloaded all the mics), but when I click on merge it says "you already have opened up SINE player instance. To use this feature please proceed to the first instance you opened" but as far as I can see I have only one instance opened. Am I missing something in what I am doing?



Yeah it seems there is a master copy of SINE when you open it. So if you open it in standalone, and then open it in your DAW, only the Standalone version can do things like merge mics. Same if you open in logic and then open in VEPro for example.


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 14, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> For example, you might want to increase the legato volume for lyrical passages and decrease it for runs.


Capsule can do this.


----------



## Jaap (May 14, 2020)

gst98 said:


> Yeah it seems there is a master copy of SINE when you open it. So if you open it in standalone, and then open it in your DAW, only the Standalone version can do things like merge mics. Same if you open in logic and then open in VEPro for example.



Thanks! Couldn't find any other instance open, but restarted the comp to be sure and after that it worked  Cheers!


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## jbuhler (May 14, 2020)

I was amused by the (new?) trailer.


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## MGdepp (May 14, 2020)

Many people seem to misunderstand, but some already corrected it: Auto volume scaling is supposedly there to improve the connections between sustains and legato transitions or sustains and release samples. The ability to adjust the volume of transitions was there before and it also is not related to the mic merging feature. The Sine website clearly sells it as a NEW feature improving the sound. That was actually the feature I was looking forward to the most. Could anyone hear a difference between Sine and Capsule with any MA 1 instrument? If so, please share the midi and tell us which patch you used.


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## lucor (May 14, 2020)

Already posted this someplace else, but I'm completely blown away by how _resource efficient_ SINE is, especially regarding *RAM usage* and how it affects the *project size*, the two things that made me hate CAPSULE with a passion. Some tests I just did using JXL Brass and some random patches from Berlin Strings. To make things more exact you'd of course want to compare it to the same library, but it still gives a rough idea:

Regarding *project size*: with Kontakt a single CAPSULE multi patch will enlarge the DAW project size by around 8mbs (8250kb), an non-multi patch eats up around 1.2mb. This results in Project files that are easily 1gb+ when you build a OT heavy template.
On the other hand an empty SINE instance takes up a mere 71KB! When you load that SINE instance up with e.g. all 10 Horns a6 articulations it only jumps up to 176kb. So compared to the CAPSULE multi, SINE is almost 50x more efficient!
Regarding *RAM usage*: A single empty SINE instance seems to take up around 30mb of RAM. The crazy thing is that loading in patches has almost no additional effect on the RAM usage. E.g. if I load in all 10 patches of the JXL Horns a6 and purge them, the total RAM usage for that SINE instance jumps to 70mb.
In practice that means, I can load in all 14 JXL instruments with a total of 140 single patches (all purged of course) at the cost of roughly 980mbs of RAM and 11mb of project file size. With Kontakt and CAPSULE the RAM usage would at least be 10-15x bigger, the project file size even more than that.
The only thing that's now missing is that SINE is able to dynamically load in purged samples as you play like in Kontakt, which would enable you to have a giant OT template that doesn't need any deactivating of instruments, is always ready to go, has a comparatively tiny amount of RAM use and saves very fast due to low project file size.


----------



## David Kudell (May 14, 2020)

lucor said:


> Already posted this someplace else, but I'm completely blown away by how _resource efficient_ SINE is, especially regarding *RAM usage* and how it affects the *project size*, the two things that made me hate CAPSULE with a passion. Some tests I just did using JXL Brass and some random patches from Berlin Strings. To make things more exact you'd of course want to compare it to the same library, but it still gives a rough idea:
> 
> Regarding *project size*: with Kontakt a single CAPSULE multi patch will enlarge the DAW project size by around 8mbs (8250kb), an non-multi patch eats up around 1.2mb. This results in Project files that are easily 1gb+ when you build a OT heavy template.
> On the other hand an empty SINE instance takes up a mere 71KB! When you load that SINE instance up with e.g. all 10 Horns a6 articulations it only jumps up to 176kb. So compared to the CAPSULE multi, SINE is almost 50x more efficient!
> ...


That's great news. Also, mic merge is really great to reduce footprint as well. On the MA1 high strings, if you load all 4 mics it uses 1.2GB of RAM, but with the mic merge you're only using 300MB, and that's with all 16 articulations loaded.


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## shawnsingh (May 14, 2020)

gst98 said:


> Pretty sure volume scaling refers to when you merge mics. When you merge it ensures that 15 mics that are merged together come out at the same gain as a single mic.



I could be very wrong, but I was under the impression volume scaling was something related to stitching release samples on note-off, to make a more seamless and realistic release.

EDIT: sorry for duplicated noise, didn't refresh the page and see so many responses already, seemingly more accurate than my response, too.


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## José Herring (May 14, 2020)

This is so cool. In that whole collection there are 4 patches that I want.

And 27% discount on the whole thing isn't half bad. Who was complaining about that?


----------



## pawelmorytko (May 14, 2020)

27% sure isn't bad, but it's definitely not as good as 50%+ they've had on their products through Native Instruments before (no extra tax on top either).

Plus OT has been a bit random with sales so far... they used to say they won't do sales on their products, then suddenly had Berlin Series 40% two years ago but nothing last year


----------



## gussunkri (May 14, 2020)

josejherring said:


> This is so cool. In that whole collection there are 4 patches that I want.
> 
> And 27% discount on the whole thing isn't half bad. Who was complaining about that?


You can't say that and then not say which four patches!


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## jamwerks (May 14, 2020)

Really happy about being able to buy just instruments. Getting 3 of them: 4 Cbn, 4 Bn, & 3 Tubas. Too bad they seem to not have legato, but for those low voices not a big deal. 

Had the sale price been closer to the recent 50-60% off, would have gotten the whole library.


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## José Herring (May 14, 2020)

jamwerks said:


> Really happy about being able to buy just instruments. Getting 3 of them: 4 Cbn, 4 Bn, & 3 Tubas. Too bad they seem to not have legato, but for those low voices not a big deal.
> 
> Had the sale price been closer to the recent 50-60% off, would have gotten the whole library.


I find that for lower section instruments even low strings that legato is more of nuisance than help. I'll only use legato patches for solo lines. I'm glad they left them out. Save the harddrive space.


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## Virtuoso (May 14, 2020)

Automation is borked at the moment with SINE Player in Logic 10.5 (not sure if this just applies to Catalina). I hope there will be a fix soon in 1.0.4 as this is a pretty important issue!


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## Rich4747 (May 14, 2020)

a couple of freezes here


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## dzilizzi (May 14, 2020)

Well, I downloaded it, but only the basic set of mics for now. I'm starting to figure out the player. I was getting confused with the articulations, but realized the one playing is the one with the dot next to it. Can you play two at once? i.e. combine a couple instruments? I haven't figured it out yet.


----------



## AndyP (May 14, 2020)

I tried to register Ark1 in Sine, but my NI serial number is not recognized.
Solved.


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## Dr.Quest (May 14, 2020)

So what are peoples favorites in the Ark 1?


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## Manuel Stumpf (May 14, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> i.e. combine a couple instruments? I haven't figured it out yet.


Yes drag&drop another instrument into the articulation list and set it to the same midi channel:







dzilizzi said:


> the one playing is the one with the dot next to it


The highlighted articulations are the ones playing. The one with the dot, I believe is the one you edit at the moment.


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## dzilizzi (May 14, 2020)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Yes drag&drop another instrument into the articulation list and set it to the same midi channel:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. I must have had them on different midi tracks. That is why they wouldn't play when I used my keyboard. Or only the first played.


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## purple (May 14, 2020)

axb312 said:


> A la carte is a whole lot more expensive though...maybe useful if you want just 1 instrument.


Based on the two collections a la carte right now (JXL brass and met ark 1) it's about 40% more if you bought every patch.


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## jbuhler (May 14, 2020)

Dr.Quest said:


> So what are peoples favorites in the Ark 1?


a9 Horn, the choir. I also use the trumpets a fair bit for reinforcement. Occasionally the low brass for apocalyptic passages when Iceni isn’t sitting right. I rarely use the strings, though the high strings have a heft to them that can sometimes be useful.


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## ProfoundSilence (May 14, 2020)

I found the ram usage was insanely low, to the point that I'm pretty damn excited for future ports.


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## jbuhler (May 14, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I found the ram usage was insanely low, to the point that I'm pretty damn excited for future ports.


So far I’m really liking the Sine Player. I find it much more intuitive compared to Capsule. And so far I’m liking the way the key switching is set up. I’ll be interested to see how this looks with a complex patch from Berlin Strings. But also very excited about the port of that library.


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## José Herring (May 14, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> a9 Horn, the choir. I also use the trumpets a fair bit for reinforcement. Occasionally the low brass for apocalyptic passages when Iceni isn’t sitting right. I rarely use the strings, though the high strings have a heft to them that can sometimes be useful.


Wondering how the cimbassos stack up against JXL Cimbassos. Any insights?


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## MartinH. (May 14, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> So far I’m really liking the Sine Player. I find it much more intuitive compared to Capsule. And so far I’m liking the way the key switching is set up. I’ll be interested to see how this looks with a complex patch from Berlin Strings. But also very excited about the port of that library.



Have they fixed the timing issues in the string spiccatos where a few RR samples started later than others in the Kontakt version?


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## MatthewVere (May 14, 2020)

How does the brass compare to JXL in terms of size? JXL has bigger sections, but I know Ark 1 was made for epic. 

Would the Met Ark 1 Strings, work better with Ark 1's Brass or with some of the JXL sections?

I'm looking to fill the 'epic' hole in my collection and am wondering what option is the most economical (both financially and long-term viability).


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## MartinH. (May 14, 2020)

MatthewVere said:


> How does the brass compare to JXL in terms of size? JXL has bigger sections, but I know Ark 1 was made for epic.
> 
> Would the Met Ark 1 Strings, work better with Ark 1's Brass or with some of the JXL sections?
> 
> I'm looking to fill the 'epic' hole in my collection and am wondering what option is the most economical (both financially and long-term viability).



I like to think of MA1 as "dark and bold" instead of "epic".

When you look at the sections names here:








Metropolis Ark 1


A complete orchestral scoring toolset: A huge orchestra, a choir, percussion, a grand piano, and a metal band. All recorded to be bold, loud, and breathtaking. Featuring the loudest imaginable dynamics, from mf up to fff. All instruments were recorded with first-call musicians at the Teldex...




www.orchestraltools.com




When it says "Horns a3" it means 3 horns. "Horns a9" means 9 horns, etc.. The 3 horns patch is intended for chords, the 9 horns patch for melodies (it's also the only brass section with legato). You can of course layer 3 and 9 to get those "epic" 12 horns some like to joke about.

I think they've hit nice sweet spots with the brass section sizes.


----------



## David Kudell (May 14, 2020)

MatthewVere said:


> How does the brass compare to JXL in terms of size? JXL has bigger sections, but I know Ark 1 was made for epic.
> 
> Would the Met Ark 1 Strings, work better with Ark 1's Brass or with some of the JXL sections?
> 
> I'm looking to fill the 'epic' hole in my collection and am wondering what option is the most economical (both financially and long-term viability).


JXL does it all, from p to fff - it has 5 dynamic layers. Ark 1 does mf and fff only. 

Besides more dynamic layers, I would say that JXL also gets even more fff than Ark 1.

That said, I still love the sound of the a9 horns and a3 horns in Ark 1. 

But the beauty of OT’s libraries are that they are completely unprocessedSo Ark will blend perfectly with JXL’s standard mics.

The only exception is if you use the AMXL mic options that come with JXL, which are mixed by Alan Meyerson and JunkieXL, designed for a certain sound. But the regular mic positions are just unprocessed. Sometimes you will hear people say that JXL Brass is for certain types of music, but with the unprocessed mics it’s really clean.


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## jbuhler (May 14, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Have they fixed the timing issues in the string spiccatos where a few RR samples started later than others in the Kontakt version?


I don’t know. I rarely use the strings and haven’t even downloaded the Sine version of them yet.


----------



## jbuhler (May 14, 2020)

josejherring said:


> Wondering how the cimbassos stack up against JXL Cimbassos. Any insights?


@ProfoundSilence might have some insight on this. I remember a discussion comparing the low brass of JXL and Ark I. I recall JXL wins for versatility.


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## shawnsingh (May 14, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> Ark will blend perfectly with JXL’s standard mics.



I do agree with this but I feel it does need minor mixing. Ark tree mic is a bit wetter, I think the sections were placed just slightly further from the tree, and also because JXL was recorded with the wide orientation of Teldex, so a lot of the front to back reverberation is replaced by a bit more width instead. Berlin Brass tree mic is between the wetness of ark and jxl. That said, the overall tone of Teldex is basically the same so it only takes mic position mixing or transparent reverb to match them quite well.


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## NYC Composer (May 15, 2020)

Dr.Quest said:


> So what are peoples favorites in the Ark 1?


Choirs, the only patches I use, but I’m very fond of them.


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## novaburst (May 15, 2020)

I hoping this is a move for all of there librarys into Sine can be easy on the pocket plus a sweet offiering of a big variety of O T instrumeants, quite staggering to think about

I think this is making the Sine player quite a treasure to have.


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## novaburst (May 15, 2020)

The Drake Piano is both insane and beautiful at the same time never herd anything like that that piano is crazy.:emoji_musical_keyboard:


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## ProfoundSilence (May 17, 2020)

Strangely, I'm finally taking the time to make some mic merges - and have decided to start with berlin WW legacy - which involves trying to match the general mix of the bassoons - then mixing everything around that. then it's bassoons mixed with contrabassoons 8vb to figure out the contrabassoon mix ect. 

I had a hard time getting the merge feature to be successful right off the bat because it wants to use the instance that was opened first, and also seems to crash on me if I have other instances open... so for now I'm making the mixes using a single instance of sine with my template of kontakt instruments open, and it's been going smoothly now that I've figured out how my machine wants to operate. 

taking the time to sculpt these out individual definitely seems to pay off, because in the future I'll have gain-staged ready instruments in a click.


----------



## MartinH. (May 18, 2020)

@method1: I had posted this in the other thread and moved it here, because I think the commercial announcements forum is intended as critique free zone for the developers and critique belongs in sampletalk etc.. So I'm crossquoting you from the other thread:



method1 said:


> Im hearing some strange noises in this video, specifically in the brass patches, the first one comes in at around 12:00 on the left channel, then again at 12:40ish and again at 13.35
> There might be more but I haven't finished watching the video yet, are these just glitches in the video recording or random noises in the samples?



I'm having a hard time hearing what exactly you mean, but based on my own experience with MA1 Kontakt version, I'd say there are "quirks" in some of the samples that are more obvious than the examples you mentioned. And I doubt there have been changes to the sample content in this regard for the Sine version. If you look this closely, you'll find similar "quirks" in the samples of many/most libraries. So if this bothers you a lot - no matter if those examples you mentioned are just caused by youtube clipping or not - I don't think this is the right library for you.


----------



## method1 (May 18, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> @method1: I had posted this in the other thread and moved it here, because I think the commercial announcements forum is intended as critique free zone for the developers and critique belongs in sampletalk etc.. So I'm crossquoting you from the other thread:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having a hard time hearing what exactly you mean, but based on my own experience with MA1 Kontakt version, I'd say there are "quirks" in some of the samples that are more obvious than the examples you mentioned. And I doubt there have been changes to the sample content in this regard for the Sine version. If you look this closely, you'll find similar "quirks" in the samples of many/most libraries. So if this bothers you a lot - no matter if those examples you mentioned are just caused by youtube clipping or not - I don't think this is the right library for you.



Thanks, fair enough, not trying to take a dig at OT, those noises just jumped out at me during the demo.
Kind of a popping/scraping sound moving from right to left, not the usual chair squeak kind of accident found in some libraries.

At this point I'm inclined to think it's just clipping.


----------



## Ashermusic (May 18, 2020)

For some reason that I can't figure out, dragging articulations in is not auto incrementing the keyswitches, they all are going to C0. I can't find a presence for this, if there is one.


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## GingerMaestro (May 18, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> For some reason that I can't figure out, dragging articulations in is not auto incrementing the keyswitches, they all are going to C0. I can't find a presence for this, if there is one.


Likewise..I need to watch the videos, but am a bot short on time right now. Anyone got a quick solution ? Thanks


----------



## Manuel Stumpf (May 18, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> For some reason that I can't figure out, dragging articulations in is not auto incrementing the keyswitches, they all are going to C0. I can't find a presence for this, if there is one.


Did you drag it onto its own midi channel by accident (Sine is multitimbral)?
Then the first keyswitch always gets the same key, because it is on different channels.

Check the midi channel number in the articulation list.

The keyswitches auto increment, when you drag onto/within the already existing instrument midi channel.


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## Ashermusic (May 18, 2020)

Sine MIDI channel was set to All.

On another forum, I found my solution: "Just load any number of articulations from one instrument into the list, then click the settings symbol next there and choose "Remap : With Key Switches". By dragging them in a different order in their list you change the keys."


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## muziksculp (May 18, 2020)

I wonder which OT library will be SINE'd next ?


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## Dayvi (May 18, 2020)

So for a beginner orchestral composer like me searching for a brass library...
JXL brass or Metropolis Ark I brass?

I somehow don't like the Metropolis 1 Trumpets.
Horns from both libraries are great... i don't compose epic music.. maybe someone has advice for me.

à la carte purchases are a very nice thing i think.


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## GingerMaestro (May 18, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Sine MIDI channel was set to All.
> 
> On another forum, I found my solution: "Just load any number of articulations from one instrument into the list, then click the settings symbol next there and choose "Remap : With Key Switches". By dragging them in a different order in their list you change the keys."


However, it seem if I load two different instruments ie, Frankenstein Low String and Frankenstein High Strings, i can't change between the instrument ? Thanks All


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## Manuel Stumpf (May 18, 2020)

GingerMaestro said:


> However, it seem if I load two different instruments ie, Frankenstein Low String and Frankenstein High Strings, i can't change between the instrument ? Thanks All


What exactly do you mean "change between the instrument"?

Different instruments within the same articulation list have different midi channels by default.
I think you can't drag articulations from one instrument to another.
But you can select the same midi channel (and set different keyswitches), if you want control them both from the same channel:


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## GingerMaestro (May 18, 2020)

Amazing..got it..But it just crashed my computer ! Trying again now !


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## ProfoundSilence (May 18, 2020)

click the gear next to articulation and select KS, it'll remap them


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## Sunny Schramm (Jul 12, 2020)

Hmm...where are all the multis? Not available/possible in sine?

Also - how can I delete single instruments I dont need? (like the band stuff) And am I really forced to download the tree-mic when I only want the close-mic?

I see I can delete them manually from the appdata-folder but thats really not comfortable at all 😕


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jul 12, 2020)

Sunny Schramm said:


> how can I delete single instruments I dont need?


a) Don't download them.
b) Go into the library view, right click a mic position of any instrument and click "Delete Mic Position".
c) Start messing around inside the Sine folder on your disk



Sunny Schramm said:


> And am I really forced to download the tree-mic when I only want the close-mic?


No. You can select/deselect arbitrary instruments or mic positions to download.


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## Sunny Schramm (Jul 12, 2020)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> a) Don't download them.
> b) Go into the library view, right click a mic position of any instrument and click "Delete Mic Position".
> c) Start messing around inside the Sine folder on your disk
> No. You can select/deselect arbitrary instruments or mic positions to download.



a) how do I know what I need before playing around with it
b) I did - does not work at all
c) very annoying
d) no - you can not deselect close or tree


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jul 12, 2020)

Sunny Schramm said:


> c) very annoying


Indeed it is.



Sunny Schramm said:


> d) no - you can not deselect close or tree


Really. Hm. Can't really check. I have downloaded everything.
For other Sine libraries this was possible and still is.


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## Artemi (Jul 12, 2020)

ok, so can anyone clarify if the ark I for sine player is stable enought to work on?
how do you compare it to the kontakt version?


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## jbuhler (Jul 12, 2020)

Artemi said:


> ok, so can anyone clarify if the ark I for sine player is stable enought to work on?
> how do you compare it to the kontakt version?


Not a lot of differences so far. I like the keyswitching scheme in Sine better than the one in Kontakt, but that is really minor. The Sine version so far hasn't exhibited the little bugs that I had with the Kontakt version. 

I haven't yet experienced any issues with Sine and MA1, though I've had lots of issues with Sine and Amber. I'm not sure if my issues are peculiar to Amber or if I hit a critical mass of instances with Amber. With MA1, I haven't yet had more than about a half dozen instances of Sine in the same project, whereas the project with Amber has about a dozen instances of Amber.


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## Sunny Schramm (Jul 12, 2020)

Artemi said:


> ok, so can anyone clarify if the ark I for sine player is stable enought to work on?
> how do you compare it to the kontakt version?



no crashing at all till now - but missing all multis and a lot of features I like more in kontakt. I think kontakt is more ready to play and inspiring for beginners - and easier to edit in some cases. but uses more ram and performance. I hope OT will improve sine with a lot of more featrures in the future.


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## Chungus (Jul 12, 2020)

Sunny Schramm said:


> no crashing at all till now - but missing all multis and a lot of features I like more in kontakt.


SINE has multis. Just double-click on a instrument group (e.g. Finkelstein High Strings) and it'll load all the articulations.


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## Sunny Schramm (Jul 12, 2020)

Chungus said:


> SINE has multis. Just double-click on a instrument group (e.g. Finkelstein High Strings) and it'll load all the articulations.



no, thats not a multi - it just load all articulations to the player. BUT its "my" fault 😂 There are no multis in Ark 1 - I confound it with Ark 3 where are a lot of inspiring multis - sorry for that ☺


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## jbuhler (Jul 12, 2020)

Chungus said:


> SINE has multis. Just double-click on a instrument group (e.g. Finkelstein High Strings) and it'll load all the articulations.


I don't think the Kontakt version of Ark 1 comes with any pre-made multis the way Ark 3 does, for instance. (I have two in my version of Ark 1, but I suspect I made them.) Nevertheless you can make multis similar to what you can build in a Kontakt instance with Sine just by loading up instruments (e.g., Wolfenstein Low Strings and Schwarzdorn Horns a9) and setting them to omni or the same midi channel, then balancing them in the Sine mixer.


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## MGdepp (Jul 12, 2020)

I will wait with Sine until ALL features can be automated via host automation and midi. Until that doesn’t work, Sine is pretty much unusable to me, as in my template, all instrument parameters are “saved” via recorded midi ccs on the track. My iPad touch controller enables me to change the parameters and automate them as well.

It is great to see that Sine is much more resource-friendly than Kontakt, but that will only matter to me, as soon as the same (and possibly more) things can be done with it ...


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## ProfoundSilence (Jul 16, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> I will wait with Sine until ALL features can be automated via host automation and midi. Until that doesn’t work, Sine is pretty much unusable to me, as in my template, all instrument parameters are “saved” via recorded midi ccs on the track. My iPad touch controller enables me to change the parameters and automate them as well.
> 
> It is great to see that Sine is much more resource-friendly than Kontakt, but that will only matter to me, as soon as the same (and possibly more) things can be done with it ...


this is a huge thing for me as well, waiting for this to be trickled in


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## AndyP (Jul 16, 2020)

Sunny Schramm said:


> Hmm...where are all the multis? Not available/possible in sine?
> 
> Also - how can I delete single instruments I dont need? (like the band stuff) And am I really forced to download the tree-mic when I only want the close-mic?
> 
> I see I can delete them manually from the appdata-folder but thats really not comfortable at all 😕


For a short moment I was irritated where my multis are in Kontakt ... until I remembered there were none for Ark 1.


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## NoOneKnowsAnything (Jul 16, 2020)

axb312 said:


> Thanks for the heads up. Was kinda expecting a better discount %. But this is Orchestral tools after all. My Questions:
> 
> How does it work for those who already own Ark 1?
> 
> Also, for those who know, I combine instruments from Ark 1 and 2, Ark 2 on the lower dynamics and Ark 1 on the higher dynamics. Is this possible in Sine?


I was able to get all 4 MAs last year thru NI for $1,000 total ($250 per each Ark), then Time Macro for 50% off and then Berlin Inspire Orchestra 1 & 2 for 50-63% off, I forgot which percentage. I really love all 7 of these titles and recommend anyone to get them.


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## AndyP (Jul 16, 2020)

In Sine I only downloaded the Ark1 strings for testing. Tried it and I honestly don't see any advantage of switching from Kontakt to Sine yet.
I think I will do that when all Arks are available for Sine. Since I don't have the Arks in any template it is easier to pick patches from the 4 libraries in Kontakt.


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## gussunkri (Jul 16, 2020)

Does anyone know how much hd space one mic of the Ark 1 male choir takes up?


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## David Kudell (Jul 16, 2020)

gussunkri said:


> Does anyone know how much hd space one mic of the Ark 1 male choir takes up?


About 428MB.


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## gussunkri (Jul 17, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> About 428MB.


Thanks, David! One of the appeals of the a la carte (spelling?) is the possibility of fitting only some select goodies on an almost full HD.


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## NoOneKnowsAnything (Jul 17, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> About 428MB.


I hope you keep writing more mockups, I think it will really help your career if you do as you have some acceleration happening and need to strike while the iron is hot.


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## jamwerks (Jul 17, 2020)

Can't wait for Ark 3 to come out on Sine, and a big sale!

The Mic merging feature is awesome. VSL & SF must be scrambling to follow.


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## ProfoundSilence (Jul 17, 2020)

jamwerks said:


> Can't wait for Ark 3 to come out on Sine, and a big sale!
> 
> The Mic merging feature is awesome. VSL & SF must be scrambling to follow.


the insane thing is that it must save a silly amount of time when making those pre-mixed positions anyways


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