# Midi libraries for Jazz drums



## FabMrT (Oct 13, 2018)

Hi guys, girls & those who do not fit into this binary definition of sex.

I'm looking for midi libraries for jazz drums. I own Ez drummer & Jazz expansion and I am not very happy with the drum midi's that come with it. I know that I can tweak them or write my own, but that takes loads of time and I just need good solid grooves for my writing process. Would you guys happen to know any good midi libraries that I could use with my ez drummer that could offer the bread&butter jazz grooves; 2-feel, basic swing from slow to up tempo, 3/4, latin, blues shuffle, new orleans etc. I don't need fancy playing, just something to use behind my arrangments when writing.


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## Ben (Oct 13, 2018)

VSL has some. I don't own them, so no idea how good they are. And they are at sale at the moment (25% off):
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Percussion_Complete/Vienna_Jazz_Drums


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## richard kurek (Oct 13, 2018)

FabMrT said:


> Hi guys, girls & those who do not fit into this binary definition of sex.
> 
> I'm looking for midi libraries for jazz drums. I own Ez drummer & Jazz expansion and I am not very happy with the drum midi's that come with it. I know that I can tweak them or write my own, but that takes loads of time and I just need good solid grooves for my writing process. Would you guys happen to know any good midi libraries that I could use with my ez drummer that could offer the bread&butter jazz grooves; 2-feel, basic swing from slow to up tempo, 3/4, latin, blues shuffle, new orleans etc. I don't need fancy playing, just something to use behind my arrangments when writing.


 so many choices , here is something thats been around for awhile http://www.prosonic-studios.com/midi-drum-beats/jazz-and-big-band


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## FabMrT (Oct 13, 2018)

richard kurek said:


> so many choices , here is something thats been around for awhile http://www.prosonic-studios.com/midi-drum-beats/jazz-and-big-band


Ah, great! Thank you. I'll have to check those when I get home.


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## Zee (Oct 13, 2018)

Straight Ahead Samples has two different sets one of them is just brushes and mallets
http://straightaheadsamples.com/shop-2/sa-jazz-drums/
http://straightaheadsamples.com/shop-2/sa-brushes-mallets/
There's also the Jazz and Funk expansion for BFD But requires having BD2 or BFD3


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## FabMrT (Oct 13, 2018)

Zee said:


> Straight Ahead Samples has two different sets one of them is just brushes and mallets
> http://straightaheadsamples.com/shop-2/sa-jazz-drums/
> http://straightaheadsamples.com/shop-2/sa-brushes-mallets/
> There's also the Jazz and Funk expansion for BFD But requires having BD2 or BFD3



Hi,
Thank you for your suggestion. I don't actually need drum samples (I was perhaps bit unclear with my question), I'm more after good midi performances of jazz drums, because what I find in my Ez drummer jazz library isn't enough/suitable/practical.


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## Iskra (Oct 13, 2018)

https://www.oddgrooves.com/

Some swing and modern "ECM" jazz MIDI drum loops, performed by a real human and not quantized.
As stated above by others, there are hundreds of MIDI grooves around.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Oct 13, 2018)

Check out groovemonkee.com

While many companies sell standard MIDI files, they sell files that are customized for all the major drum programs. So their EZDrummer stuff will work like Toontrack files. And if you have any other drum programs (like in Komplete) your files will work there too. Their drum patterns are recorded by a jazz drummer and aren’t quantized. 

They only have one set of 550 Jazz Drum patterns, though.


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## X-Bassist (Oct 13, 2018)

Ha! Tiger beat me by 1 minute! They do a good job with straight grooves and give you versions for almost any drummer setup (in case you change to Addictive Drums, Slate, Premium Drums, or a GM kit). They will often have sales and give you 30% off if you sign up for their newsletter:
https://groovemonkee.com/collections/all/jazz

Also Platinum Samples sells midi grooves which I haven’t tried (mostly for BFD drums) but they also sell the Zildian Artist Series grooves which are great (top players, no quantizing) but there are no jazz grooves, mostly funk, rock, etc. They also have half price sales on it from time to time, but for so many top artists and grooves, $40 is cheap. Def a good find (and they send it out for many formats like groove monkey). Good stuff:
http://www.platinumsamples.com/ps/ZildjianArtistGrooves.php


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## FabMrT (Oct 13, 2018)

Ha! How did I forget groovemonkee? I have bought some of their midi's ages ago... I'll have to check what jazz stuff they got to offer. Thank you all for your tips!


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## pderbidge (Oct 13, 2018)

My dad was a drummer, mainly played Big Band, so you'd think I'd search this one out but I haven't. However, being that Jazz is all bout breaking the rules and non standard timing etc...(or at least it can be) I would think that possibly Oddgrooves- https://www.oddgrooves.com/ -might have some useful stuff. They have one called "The Swing Pack" that might be good. Like I said, I haven't really researched Jazz groove libraries though.


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## re-peat (Oct 13, 2018)

If the demos are anything to go by, those two Oddgrooves jazz midipacks (Swing & ECM) seem to contain some of the worst, clumsy-sounding jazz drumming I've ever heard. Really quite awful, I find.
(And I don't like Groovemonkee's stuff either. At least, last time I checked, which, admittedly, was some years ago, it all sounded very bland, lifeless and unexciting.)

Nothing better — this side of getting a real drummer — than programming your own drum tracks. OK, programming good jazz drums isn't easy (and you need a rrrrrreally good drum library), but if you put in a bit of effort (*) and you have some flair for the style, you should be able to master a decent level of skill in a reasonable amount of time.

There's three big advantages: *first of all*, you can program the drums in such a way that it appears as if your drummer is listening to everything else that's happening in the music. Rather important, I should think. Especially in jazz music.
*Secondly* — and equally important —, you can program your drums in such a way so as to get the most out of your library. For example: programming Mixosaurus drums requires a completely different midi-approach than programming, say, the Toontrack Jazz kit, and that's because Mixosaurus is capable of a thousand times more detail. So, you have to give it midi-data that exploits all that detail, in order to get the most out of that library. Commercial midi-files never do that. They don't know which libraries people are working with and they settle for a passe-partout midi-language that sounds acceptable on most sampled kits but never pushes any particular kit to its own level of excellence. Really good libraries have a character, a personality, and certain idiosyncrasies and peculiarities; commercial midi-files are oblivious to all that.
And *thirdly*: programming your own stuff (and being good at it) is great fun and very rewarding. At least, I think so.

(*) If you haven't got a clue where to begin: start by watching some YouTube tutorials that teach the basics of jazz drumming, or buy some jazz drumming instruction books, so that you get a very good understanding of how the elementary jazz drum patterns are constructed. And then gradually move on to more complex things. And all the while: listen to good jazz music, to really get a feel of how the drums interact with the other instruments and how they control the level of energy and varying degrees of temperature throughout a performance.

_


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## ptram (Oct 13, 2018)

The Vntage Drummer in NI Komplete sounds good to me.

Paolo


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## YaniDee (Oct 13, 2018)

Try this:

https://www.thelooploft.com/

Big choice of midi & loops..kind of pricey, but they have a lot of sales, including one through Native Instruments going on currently.


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## Syncopator (Oct 14, 2018)

https://www.toontrack.com/product/roots-midi/
https://www.toontrack.com/product/jazz-midi/
https://www.toontrack.com/product/basic-jazz-midi/


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## FabMrT (Oct 14, 2018)

re-peat said:


> If the demos are anything to go by, those two Oddgrooves jazz midipacks (Swing & ECM) seem to contain some of the worst, clumsy-sounding jazz drumming I've ever heard. Really quite awful, I find.
> (And I don't like Groovemonkee's stuff either. At least, last time I checked, which, admittedly, was some years ago, it all sounded very bland, lifeless and unexciting.)
> 
> Nothing better — this side of getting a real drummer — than programming your own drum tracks. OK, programming good jazz drums isn't easy (and you need a rrrrrreally good drum library), but if you put in a bit of effort (*) and you have some flair for the style, you should be able to master a decent level of skill in a reasonable amount of time.
> ...



I appreciate your thoughts, however for my needs programming drums is something that I don't wish to invest my time at the moment. Currently I just need suitable grooves to use as a backing for my band arrangments. When I have mastered other instruments in the big band writing context (I assume this will be around next millenium), I will get more in depth with drum programming. Till then, I just need quick fix solutions, which of course is not the greatest artistic solution, but there just isn't enough hours in the day to do everything.


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## BuzzySmith (Mar 2, 2019)

re-peat said:


> If the demos are anything to go by, those two Oddgrooves jazz midipacks (Swing & ECM) seem to contain some of the worst, clumsy-sounding jazz drumming I've ever heard. Really quite awful, I find.
> (And I don't like Groovemonkee's stuff either. At least, last time I checked, which, admittedly, was some years ago, it all sounded very bland, lifeless and unexciting.)
> 
> Nothing better — this side of getting a real drummer — than programming your own drum tracks. OK, programming good jazz drums isn't easy (and you need a rrrrrreally good drum library), but if you put in a bit of effort (*) and you have some flair for the style, you should be able to master a decent level of skill in a reasonable amount of time.
> ...


Well said!

I'm an older keyboard guy and the big band drum grooves that I create (or modify) are usually very "passable".

I have used some of the loop libraries mentioned above and some sound very human and some sound...well...

I am looking for a modern big band drum sound and grooves similar to this, especially the faster tempos:



I have Superior Drummer 3, Slate SSD5, Addictive Drums (1) and BFD2.

Thanks!

(I may end up just hiring a real drummer to come over!)

Buzzy


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## Mark Schmieder (Mar 3, 2019)

That's a great performance. Drums are buried for the most part, which is fine; they mostly contribute to accents in that arrangement so that the vocals are never competing with distractions. I would think that's the bigger component of this musical context than the group being a big band vs. a chamber jazz combo.

The sound is fantastic in that video; especially the upright bass that drives it, and the horns are miked well. I'm almost thinking a spartan drum part will be enough, with the main focus being on picking a kit that is tuned properly for the song and the arrangement.

Based on that example above, you're going to want the snare wires off or loose, I think, and the kick drum pitched tight and moderate to high pitched. I hear more toms than cymbals too. In that mix I can't tell if it's brushes, sticks, or one of many in-between type strikers. The drummer is mostly serving the singer though, with accents that emphasize the vocal phrasing. The bassist carries the beat.

As for MIDI libraries, there are some very good ones. I used to exclusively program my own beats, but then realized I needed more realism in hi-hats and ride cymbals, articulation-wise, so I use a mix now, of my own stuff augmented by MIDI libraries. All are played by top players originally (Bruford, Erskine, etc.) and on highly sensitive devices vs. keyboards. Twiddly.BITS is a good place to start, along with some from Platinum Samples (possibly sold directly by fxpansion) such as Peter Erskine, Stanton Moore, etc. There's lots of other choices, but those have the widest dynamic range and swing feel.


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## BuzzySmith (Mar 3, 2019)

Mark Schmieder said:


> That's a great performance. Drums are buried for the most part, which is fine; they mostly contribute to accents in that arrangement so that the vocals are never competing with distractions. I would think that's the bigger component of this musical context than the group being a big band vs. a chamber jazz combo.
> 
> The sound is fantastic in that video; especially the upright bass that drives it, and the horns are miked well. I'm almost thinking a spartan drum part will be enough, with the main focus being on picking a kit that is tuned properly for the song and the arrangement.
> 
> ...


Thanks for such an insightful reply, Mark!

I did isolate the drum tracks pretty well using the iZotope RX7 Audio Editor to go by.

And I worked on the groove today as the horn guys are coming tomorrow.

Still may hire a live guy!

Appreciate it!

Buzzy


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## BlackDorito (Mar 3, 2019)

Programming drums (on Windows): www.drumgen.com


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## BezO (Mar 4, 2019)

YaniDee said:


> Try this:
> 
> https://www.thelooploft.com/
> 
> Big choice of midi & loops..kind of pricey, but they have a lot of sales, including one through Native Instruments going on currently.


Do you know or can you direct me to their mapping info? I'm guessing general midi since I can't find anything.

Any chance they provide mappings for any drum VIs (Addictive Drums in my case) like Groove Monkey Platinum Samples?


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## Heizenhaus (Mar 4, 2019)

BezO said:


> Do you know or can you direct me to their mapping info? I'm guessing general midi since I can't find anything.


It's just standard General MIDI mapping. No additional mappings.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 4, 2019)

FabMrT said:


> I appreciate your thoughts, however for my needs programming drums is something that I don't wish to invest my time at the moment. Currently I just need suitable grooves to use as a backing for my band arrangments. When I have mastered other instruments in the big band writing context (I assume this will be around next millenium), I will get more in depth with drum programming. Till then, I just need quick fix solutions, which of course is not the greatest artistic solution, but there just isn't enough hours in the day to do everything.


If you’re open to using loops (and especially if you have Stylus RMX) consider the Jazz and Latin sample pack from Drums on Demand. It has a good variety of both brush and stick loops with a fair amount of variations and fills laid out over the keyboard in each.


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## FabMrT (Mar 7, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> If you’re open to using loops (and especially if you have Stylus RMX) consider the Jazz and Latin sample pack from Drums on Demand. It has a good variety of both brush and stick loops with a fair amount of variations and fills laid out over the keyboard in each.



Hi,
I am open for loops as well. Altho I would prefer midi libraries, but getting quickly decent results is higher on priority list than being able to do small adjustments.
Unfortunately I don't have Stylus RMX (is it still being sold?). I've got to check those "Drums on demand" loops.

Thank you!


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## NYC Composer (Mar 7, 2019)

They’re available in other formats, but I don’t know whether any of them are suitable for you. Check them out here:

https://www.drumsondemand.com/products/jazz-latin-drum-loops


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## FabMrT (Mar 7, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> They’re available in other formats, but I don’t know whether any of them are suitable for you. Check them out here:
> 
> https://www.drumsondemand.com/products/jazz-latin-drum-loops


Yeah, I am fine to use REX files. Thank you once more!


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