# Do you Ever Get Depressed/Discouraged with your Abilities/Music?



## requiem_aeternam7 (Mar 22, 2010)

Just wondering if anyone else out there (besides me) often (or not often) gets discouraged to the point of frustration/depression and how do you deal with it or get around it? Especially when you're working on a project and it grips you so tightly that you just can't bring yourself to compose.


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## Ed (Mar 22, 2010)

All the time. All the time. Like if I'm scoring a scene and I can't figure out what the hell will work there, when I figure it out its the best feeling... until the next crisis happens... I go to the next scene.


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## Hannes_F (Mar 22, 2010)

requiem_aeternam7 @ Tue Mar 23 said:


> Just wondering if anyone else out there (besides me) often (or not often) gets discouraged to the point of frustration/depression and how do you deal with it or get around it? Especially when you're working on a project and it grips you so tightly that you just can't bring yourself to compose.



There have been times when I was extremely depressed. I remember my first years in music academy. Coming from a small town I simply did not have the quality violin training as people that have been raised in a big town can have, especially in towns with a music academy or a big orchestra. It was hardly believeable to myself that I had managed to pass the entrance examination. I struggled along for one or two years but things did not change much. Finally my professor told me I would never learn it and I should do something else for profession.

What he did not know was that I was also studying physics on the side. I kept that secret in the music academy. But if I had given up to be a professional musician at that point I would really have felt defeated then.

It was one of the moments when my bullhead awoke. I abandoned my scholarship with that violin professor, took two sabbatical semesters in which I taught myself by reading many books about violin playing and recording myself. And did my pre-degree in physics ... on the side. After that I found a new violin professor in academy that was very competent in terms of technique and willing to re-start with me from scratch. Although I was already 23 then, an age where a violinist should be perfect, I spent months on playing open strings and built up the whole technique again from there. All in all I spent ten years on music academy and pracised 6 to 8 hours a day (sometimes more) but in the end I had my diploma and a proper violin technique. And maybe much more concious knowledge about it than many people that learn it the right way as kids.

Those years were really painful in a way. But without them I would not be what I am now ... and all of the joy and the mourning that I experienced is in my playing, always ...


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## stonzthro (Mar 22, 2010)

I live in constant fear of being exposed for the fraud that I am! 

I usually go for a walk if things get too stressful and I walk and walk until I get some ideas. It can/has taken hours...


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## dinerdog (Mar 22, 2010)

Yes. I find that even though I know in my head how much I've accomplished and written, that aspect doesn't diminish that much. Often the second I'm done with a piece and send it out, that's when I have the most doubts about it. Best to start another right away. Preparation can help, but it's mostly a high volume of writing and discarding that'll help. Sometimes switching gears etc. There are probably more posts about writers block and procrastination than you can shake a keyboard at.

Add: I do want to add that I don't ever get depressed about it though and LOVE what I do. I just saw a recent Smokey Robinson Youtube where he told people the #1 bit of advice he had was to develop a thick skin. The #2 was to not take yourself so seriously. This was his keynote talk at the 2010 SXSW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTSOML0h ... e=featured


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## requiem_aeternam7 (Mar 22, 2010)

stonzthro @ Mon Mar 22 said:


> I live in constant fear of being exposed for the fraud that I am!
> 
> I usually go for a walk if things get too stressful and I walk and walk until I get some ideas. It can/has taken hours...


Same here..i know this is a touò¨Ï   Ê`â¨Ï   Ê`ã¨Ï   Ê`ä¨Ï   Ê`å¨Ï   Ê`æ¨Ï   Ê`ç¨Ï   Ê`è¨Ï   Ê`é¨Ï   Ê`ê¨Ï   Ê`ë¨Ï   Ê`ì¨Ï   Ê`í¨Ï   Ê`î¨Ï   Ê`ï¨Ï   Ê`ð¨Ï   Ê`ñ¨Ð   Ê`ô¨Ð   Ê`õ¨Ð   Ê`ö¨Ð   Ê`÷¨Ð   Ê`ø¨Ð   Ê`ù¨Ð   Ê`ú¨Ð   Ê`û¨Ð   Ê`ü¨Ð   Ê`ý¨Ð   Ê`þ¨Ð   Ê`ÿ¨Ð   Êa ¨Ð   Êa¨Ð   Êa¨Ð   Êa¨Ð   Êa¨Ð   Êa¨Ð   Êa¨Ð   Êa¨Ð   Êa¨Ð   Êa	¨Ð   Êa
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## rgames (Mar 22, 2010)

My personal thoughts:

Most artists feel uncertain about their art - not always, but more often than not. It's healthy - you should be your own worst critic. Dissention fuels progress, especially dissention with one's self.

The trick is how you respond to that internal dissention - if you cower and back down, you don't have what it takes. If it drives you to do better, that's the sign of a great artist (or scientist, or athlete, or whatever).

Having self-doubt is not a weakness. How you respond to that self-doubt will define your likelihood of success.

rgames


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## requiem_aeternam7 (Mar 22, 2010)

rgames @ Mon Mar 22 said:


> My personal thoughts:
> 
> Most artists feel uncertain about their art - not always, but more often than not. It's healthy - you should be your own worst critic. Dissention fuels progress, especially dissention with one's self.
> 
> ...



wow that was quite powerful and true... I sometimes try to fight through it and beat it. What I mean is, if I'm depressed about a particular thing like I found my orchestration or voice leading to be poor, I may be too frustrated to compose, but I'll start pulling out scores instead and say to myself "well, what are you sitting there for. If you feel your orchestration is weak then start studying and strengthen it up" and I end up studying orchestration for a while and end up feeling better about everything - just an example.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 22, 2010)

Never. Sometimes some frustration when I am struggling with a cue but never depression. Writing for me is a joy.


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## Marius Masalar (Mar 22, 2010)

I have to agree with Jay here, it's a wonderful thing to be able to do this at all.

I would add one more source of frustration which is when I feel that a cue fits perfectly, but the director will find it completely off and require a re-write that takes it in a direction I feel is weaker. That is frustrating, but not really discouraging in terms of my ability to write so much as with my ability to have communicated well with the director in question.


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## dcoscina (Mar 22, 2010)

I'm generally a depressive personality but I find music to be my salvation. I love composing and working on any and all things music.


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## Frederick Russ (Mar 22, 2010)

rgames @ Mon Mar 22 said:


> Having self-doubt is not a weakness. How you respond to that self-doubt will define your likelihood of success.



Precisely. Don't get sad - get even. If one's chops need sprucing up, be proactive and find a mentor, woodshed, study and practice. Same applies to composing and arranging. 

Healthy self-analysis never hurt anyone. Its the unhealthy stuff that one has to watch out for. There is a wide gap between constructive and destructive criticism especially in regards to self - knowing the difference can make all the difference in the world.


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## midphase (Mar 22, 2010)

Wow...some of you guys need help!

The only time when I get depressed is when I'm not working. When I am being paid to composer I'm actually on a high. Good composition, bad composition, fraud, not a fraud....not up to me to judge. I do what I do and that's that. When I get notes I try to address them as logically and objectively as I can...other than that it's really not my problem to determine where I fit into the grand scheme of things.


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## requiem_aeternam7 (Mar 22, 2010)

midphase @ Mon Mar 22 said:


> Wow...some of you guys need help!
> 
> The only time when I get depressed is when I'm not working. When I am being paid to composer I'm actually on a high. Good composition, bad composition, fraud, not a fraud....not up to me to judge. I do what I do and that's that. When I get notes I try to address them as logically and objectively as I can...other than that it's really not my problem to determine where I fit into the grand scheme of things.



lucky you. some of us aren't so fortunate. :wink:


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## choc0thrax (Mar 22, 2010)

I find I can be pretty hard on myself. I often get in trouble fò¨ï   ÊmB¨ï   ÊmC¨ï   ÊmD¨ï   ÊmE¨ï   ÊmF¨ï   ÊmG¨ï   ÊmH¨ï   ÊmI¨ï   ÊmJ¨ï   ÊmK¨ï   ÊmL¨ï   ÊmM¨ï   ÊmN¨ï   ÊmO¨ï   ÊmP¨ï   ÊmQ¨ï   ÊmR¨ï   ÊmS¨ï   ÊmT¨ï   ÊmU¨ï   ÊmV¨ï   ÊmW¨ï   ÊmX¨ï   ÊmY¨ï   ÊmZ¨ï   Êm[¨ï   Êm\¨ï   Êm]¨ï   Êm^¨ï   Êm_¨ï   Êm`¨ï   Êma¨ï   Êmb¨ï   Êmc¨ï   Êmd¨ï   Ême¨ï   Êmf¨ï   Êmg¨ï   Êmh¨ï   Êmi¨ï   Êmj¨ï   Êmk¨ï   Êml¨ï   Êmm¨ï   Êmn¨ï   Êmo¨ï   Êmp¨ï   Êmq¨ï


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## stonzthro (Mar 23, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Mon Mar 22 said:


> Luckily if I ever feel down I have a short attention span so I quickly forget about negative things if a shiny car drives by or I hear bugs somewhere nearby.



Now that's the best advice - shorten your attention span!


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## Patrick de Caumette (Mar 23, 2010)

Who is better aware of one's shortcoming than oneself?!

Unless you are dillusional, you know very well what you are stuggling with.

And with the infinity of things to know in the world of music, it's unavoidable to be confronted wit large blocks of uncharted territories that confond us, frustrate us and as a result depress us. 
It is the desire to conquer those territories and the realization that it cannot be done overnight (or the false belief that it can't be done at all) that leads to depression.
This is a necessary phase, that should be welcome since it is the first step of progress, as long as one doesn't dwell on it and doesn't use this as an excuse to self-destroy...

Those that never get to that point may be very satisfied with their abilities. 
I dare to say that they are probably missing out on the opportunity for exponential growth...


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## Hannes_F (Mar 23, 2010)

Re Patrick

Reminds me of the four stages of competence I picked up somewhere:

1. Unconcious incompetence ... = happy status in a naive way
2. Conscious incompetence ... = unhappy status
3. Conscious competence ... = needs much work to get there, result often also shows signs of "work"
4. Unconscious competence ... = when abilities have become natural and flowing

This is a cycle btw., always repeated.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 23, 2010)

Patrick de Caumette @ Tue Mar 23 said:


> \ it's unavoidable to be confronted wit large blocks of uncharted territories that confond us, frustrate us and as a result depress us.



I guess this is where I am different from some by nature. Frustration does not depress me, it makes me more determined. 

At the risk of self-aggrandizing, this is why I am so good with Logic Pro. I have never been brilliant or intuitive with it. What I am is willing to work through frustration, knowing that I may try something 30 times and not have it work but that on the 31st I may have a light bulb moment, and think, "Oh, now I get it."


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## Patrick de Caumette (Mar 23, 2010)

@ Hannes: I love that: so true!

@ Jay: exactly! and see, even yourself admits to "working through frustration"
What you call frustration can trigger, or be called depression at times.
I doubt that you are always feeling on the top of the world (unless medicated)
It is not so much feeling depressed that is the issue, but how long of a stage it can become..

I love challenges myself, and I work my butt off (12 hours a day for the last 30 years) but at times, when my energies are low and I am confronted with financial issues, or simply my own limitations compared to an outstanding artist, I will sometimes get depressed (and of course excited in the case of great talent), even if it is for a few minutes. Time goes by and I confront the challenge head on.

Maybe there are people out there that are constently satisfied with themselves.
Surely, when you are in the 4th stage that Hannes describes, things are pretty sweet. But as he describes, the cycle is on-going.
Eventually you are back to square 1.


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## ChrisAxia (Mar 23, 2010)

Glad I'm not alone in questioning my abilities and also really hating everything I've done on a project once I finish it. As some here have said, without this, we wouldn't keep pushing ourselves to get better. One of the most successful producers ever, David Foster, says in his autobiography something like - on Mondays, Wednesdays & Fridays he feels at the top of his game and happy with his achievements, but on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays he feels a complete failure, wondering how he got as far as he has! George Massenburg also said that he cannot stand to hear his mixes for at least 10 years after he has done them!!

When I read this, I realised that we mere mortals who strive to improve our abilities in music creation will have the same doubts and feelings. I have learnt to accept this now, and that in itself is comforting. Just part of the journey...

~Chris


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## Ashermusic (Mar 23, 2010)

Patrick de Caumette @ Tue Mar 23 said:


> \
> @ Jay: exactly! and see, even yourself admits to "working through frustration"
> What you call frustration can trigger, or be called depression at times.
> I doubt that you are always feeling on the top of the world (unless medicated)
> It is not so much feeling depressed that is the issue, but how long of a stage it can become..



i think we are perhaps using the term "depression" differently. My dictionary defines it as "severe despondency and dejection, typically felt over a period of time and accompanied by feelings of hopelessness and inadequacy."

I don't experience that. I get frustrated and upset sometimes, but I would not say I get depressed while writing.

I do however sometimes get depressed when finances are not going well but composing always relieves that for me that rather than heightening it.


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## Ed (Mar 23, 2010)

Folmann @ Tue Mar 23 said:


> Get sex.



Amen,.


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## George Caplan (Mar 24, 2010)

coming from a large financial environment you can tell how things are going by results. with music even if you are presumably selling it professionally on a regular basis i would think its hard to gauge how things are going just on that alone. unless you judge results by how much money you make of course.


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## mverta (Mar 24, 2010)

The life of an artist is one in a perpetual state of divine dissatisfaction.


_Mike


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## mjc (Mar 24, 2010)

Great thread!

What happens with me is I have 'epiphanies' of 'get over it mate, just do it!'

I'm facing a tricky situation where the studio I work at could go out of business if bookings don't pick up soon. I was worrying about it for ages thinking 'pay is getting smaller and smaller, soon I'll be earning nothing!'...you get to the point where your skin thickens and you just get on with trying to make things happen. For me, the anxiety of anticipating it is the bad part. Same thing applies for my composing/arranging too! I hear so much great talent out there and get certain jobs where I think 'who am I kidding, I can't do this!'...I think that's just the way it is for most creative folk...but as some folks have already said, that's what fuels the fire to keep on at it and improving! 

For me it's not necessarily depression, but anxiety and, like others have mentioned, creative frustration.

BTW great term Mike! "divine dissatisfaction"

oh and definitely get sex haha o-[][]-o


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## Olias (Mar 24, 2010)

Folmann @ Tue Mar 23 said:


> 7. Have fun with it. Don't take yourself too seriously and don't expect others to take you too seriously either.



Case in point: Helium Choir! :mrgreen:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 24, 2010)

Excellent post, Troels!! It should be a sticky.

As for me, I can discouraged by my playing. It often sucks. I should practice more and spend less time on the web.


Right. :roll:


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