# Need to learn modern horror orchestration...



## Kidd Cabbage (Jan 25, 2016)

I'm composing the score for a project and the direction that we decided to go with the score is a really effects-heavy action-horror-type score. The problem is that I can't find damn near anything to reference when it comes to the orchestration of this type of music. 

Here is an example:


Nothing that I know of with a public domain score has orchestration even close to this, so I'm at a loss of where to turn to learn to create this kind of stuff. Any ideas on where to start?


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 25, 2016)

Try to built a template with all your libraries you have. What I mean is, add the sounds/instruments of what do you think it could work and then experiment. Sometimes there is no need to be able to listen to a score what is already done. Experiment by watching the pictures, experiment and experiment!
Of course, there are the old Hitchcock films e.t.c. ... .


----------



## Farkle (Jan 25, 2016)

Listen to Ameriques, by Varese (with the score), and listen to Alien (J Goldsmith), and listen to Lutoslawki, Jeux Venetiens and Symphony No. 3 (With Score). That will get you started.


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 25, 2016)

Farkle said:


> Listen to Ameriques, by Varese (with the score), and listen to Alien (J Goldsmith), and listen to Lutoslawki, Jeux Venetiens and Symphony No. 3 (With Score). That will get you started.


Good suggestions, but I prefer the way of own experimenting.


----------



## Farkle (Jan 25, 2016)

Nothing wrong with experimenting at all, you can find some awesome textures that way. Personally, I also like hearing how someone else accomplished something, and then reverse-engineering the timbres (either through transcribing or score study). I think a composer should do both. 

Mike


----------



## bcarwell (Jan 25, 2016)

Kidd, see if this gives you any ideas. Project Sam tutorial on generating a horror score:



Bob


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 25, 2016)

Farkle said:


> Nothing wrong with experimenting at all, you can find some awesome textures that way. Personally, I also like hearing how someone else accomplished something, and then reverse-engineering the timbres (either through transcribing or score study). I think a composer should do both.
> 
> Mike


But then you are involved by the track of someone else's. I hear you, no question, but that's also the reason why so many sounds similar, because everyone then ever copied something (unconsciously) of existing plants.


----------



## LamaRose (Jan 25, 2016)

Sounds like you're looking for some low-end hits and stabs. Library-wise, OT's Metropolis Ark and Spitfire's Albion IV could really make life easy for you. IV is built for this type of score. Also, Spitfire's Olafur Arnald's library might provide something fresh and scratchy for the softer high-end vibe.


----------



## wbacer (Jan 25, 2016)

Purchase the Mike Verta Master Class he did last Halloween called, "The Horror".
www.mikeverta.com
I don't see it posted on his site but shoot him an email and I'm sure he will hook you up.
Great class on how to write scary stuff.


----------



## Assa (Jan 25, 2016)

wbacer said:


> Purchase the Mike Verta Master Class he did last Halloween called, "The Horror".
> www.mikeverta.com
> I don't see it posted on his site but shoot him an email and I'm sure he will hook you up.
> Great class on how to write scary stuff.



+1, and there is also a lot of free sheet music on marco beltramis website, mostly horror stuff


----------



## Farkle (Jan 25, 2016)

wbacer said:


> Purchase the Mike Verta Master Class he did last Halloween called, "The Horror".
> www.mikeverta.com
> I don't see it posted on his site but shoot him an email and I'm sure he will hook you up.
> Great class on how to write scary stuff.



Agreed, that's where I found out about "Ameriques". Great, dark, horror sounding score. Mike Verta's classes are absolute gems.

Mike


----------



## Farkle (Jan 25, 2016)

germancomponist said:


> But then you are involved by the track of someone else's. I hear you, no question, but that's also the reason why so many sounds similar, because everyone then ever copied something (unconsciously) of existing plants.



Sure, I agree. The OP asked for scores to reference, for orchestration ideas. From the OP:

"Nothing that I know of with a public domain score has orchestration even close to this, so I'm at a loss of where to turn to learn to create this kind of stuff."

I'm giving him scores that have textures and gestures similar to what Dead Space uses, per his request. Whether or not the OP wants to take that to a different place is in his court.

Mike


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 25, 2016)

Farkle said:


> Sure, I agree. The OP asked for scores to reference, for orchestration ideas. From the OP:
> 
> "Nothing that I know of with a public domain score has orchestration even close to this, so I'm at a loss of where to turn to learn to create this kind of stuff."
> 
> ...


All is good!
I just wanted to give a food for thought.


----------



## Farkle (Jan 25, 2016)

Totally cool! I wanted to clarify that I was just responding to OP's request, not denying your good observation that experimentation and "creative play" are also very important towards cultivating a fun, unique sound. 

Mike


----------



## dcoscina (Jan 25, 2016)

Farkle said:


> Listen to Ameriques, by Varese (with the score), and listen to Alien (J Goldsmith), and listen to Lutoslawki, Jeux Venetiens and Symphony No. 3 (With Score). That will get you started.


I would add Ligeti Requiem. Personally the scariest music I've ever heard.


----------



## P.N. (Jan 25, 2016)

Iannis Xenakis. 
ex:Metastasis.


----------



## Farkle (Jan 25, 2016)

dcoscina said:


> I would add Ligeti Requiem. Personally the scariest music I've ever heard.



Good call, I totally forgot about that. The "Kyrie" is terrifying!  Thank you!


----------



## dcoscina (Jan 25, 2016)

George Crumb Black Angels is also good. 
For synth stuff this is one of the creepiest ever:


----------



## NoamL (Jan 26, 2016)

Well if your reference is Jason Graves (the composer of _Dead Space_, _Until Dawn_ etc.) then I would definitely look at Penderecki:

_http://www.soundtracksandtrailermusic.com/2015/12/jason-graves-about-the-music-and-sounds-in-until-dawn/ (&quot;Penderecki is inescapable if you’re talking about scary music. Anything in film or TV that’s been done since the 60s when they invented that language; they all have a debt of gratitude and credit to Penderecki because of those techniques he pioneered.&quot;)_

my favorite Penderecki piece, a nightmare for orchestra:



extended string techniques:



and his most famous work, the Threnody:


----------



## ag75 (Jan 26, 2016)

dcoscina said:


> George Crumb Black Angels is also good.
> For synth stuff this is one of the creepiest ever:



I totally agree. Perhaps it's because of my age but analogue Synth horror sound tracks always sound terrifying to me!


----------



## Kidd Cabbage (Jan 26, 2016)

Farkle, thanks for telling me about Amerique. At first, I thought it was just going to be something like Stravinski, but after a little while, the big hard hits came in. Really good influence.

I've been looking at a lot of Ligeti because of this thread, and my God are his scores hard to follow along to...

Lama, there is actually a good chance this score will be taken to an orchestra to be recorded, so I'd rather not invest in something like Albion for the project, since I'll have the same thing done but better already. Plus, then there is the fact that if it is going to orchestra, I'd rather know exactly what the parts are doing so I know how to notate them for players. That's a big thing I was hoping to find in this thread - scores for some of these pieces.

That's the problem I'm having with a lot of these pieces - there is little sheet music, and instead there are things like the spectrograph videos linked. That allows me to see the result, but I want to know what into creating that result (which can be really hard when listening to just a wall of sound).

And as for the experimentation vs study talk above, though I do intend to experiment and create something more unique to my own understanding and aesthetics, I want to learn to speak the language before I start trying to craft my own sentences within that language.

And lastly, Assa, can you give me a link to the Beltramis scores you were referring to? I'm looking all over his site and I don't see what you're talking about. I would absolutely LOVE to get my hands on those for study.


----------



## Farkle (Jan 26, 2016)

Kidd Cabbage said:


> Farkle, thanks for telling me about Amerique. At first, I thought it was just going to be something like Stravinski, but after a little while, the big hard hits came in. Really good influence.
> 
> I've been looking at a lot of Ligeti because of this thread, and my God are his scores hard to follow along to...
> 
> ...



Kidd Cabbage,

Quick history; I learned how to score horror/aleatoric/chance by doing film cues for low budget horror films (shorts) in my early days. So, I learned a lot of 'notational shortcuts' to get the feel of these classical scores, but quickly, and in a session.

So, here's a really good lecture on how to take those classical notations, and make them work in a fast, media context:

http://gdcvault.com/play/1015673/The-Art-of-Noise-Incorporating

If you still need help, contact me, we can do a lesson where I help you orchestrate that out for live performance.

Mike


----------



## The Darris (Jan 26, 2016)

Okay, my take on actual 'orchestration' implies that you need to have a good understanding of what your orchestral instruments are capable of doing. For this, I would highly encourage you to research "Extended Techniques" for each instrument. Every instrument has a standard and non-standard way of using it and in a good old fashioned horror score, you will want to reach for those techniques. If you have a good knowledge of how to read music then listen to some of the greatest 20th Century composers like Crumb, Penderecki, Bartok, and Messiaen because they pushed the envelope with many of their works. Understanding what "Aleotoric" music is will also help you. It is undetermined, meaning that the notation varies but explains to the performer, exactly what they need to do. The end product is typically something different every time.


----------



## kunst91 (Jan 26, 2016)

Farkle said:


> Kidd Cabbage,
> 
> Quick history; I learned how to score horror/aleatoric/chance by doing film cues for low budget horror films (shorts) in my early days. So, I learned a lot of 'notational shortcuts' to get the feel of these classical scores, but quickly, and in a session.
> 
> ...



Yes! Garry is the man! His aleatoric scores are hauntingly beautiful


----------



## H.R. (Jan 27, 2016)

One of the most effective and innovative scores of recent years in horror I believe is "It Follows" from Disasterpeace. Fully electronic and fully effective and scary.

Another example which is unusual is "Sicario" by Johann Johansson. There is a beast behind this score, very gripping.


----------



## Orchestrata (Jan 27, 2016)

H.R. said:


> One of the most effective and innovative scores of recent years in horror I believe is "It Follows" from Disasterpeace. Fully electronic and fully effective and scary.



Seconded; amazing score.


----------

