# License free music production



## mathis (Jul 29, 2008)

Hi,

I got an inquiry about producing "license free music" for insertion into making-ofs. Now what would you think they mean with that exactly?

I'm not really sure I want to do without GEMA (if they mean that), but if the one-time buy-out sum is high enough and compensates for it I might think about it.

Thanks!
- Mathis


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## Waywyn (Jul 29, 2008)

mathis @ Tue Jul 29 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I got an inquiry about producing "license free music" for insertion into making-ofs. Now what would you think they mean with that exactly?
> 
> ...



One question first: Are you at GEMA? If so, then forget about the "gig".


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## mathis (Jul 29, 2008)

Yes, I'm a member and I know that it's against the GEMA rules.

What I'm trying to figure if they just want to avoid organisational overhead and thus want a complete buyout. Would that be called license-free?
I dunno...


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## Waywyn (Jul 29, 2008)

mathis @ Tue Jul 29 said:


> Yes, I'm a member and I know that it's against the GEMA rules.
> 
> What I'm trying to figure if they just want to avoid organisational overhead and thus want a complete buyout. Would that be called license-free?
> I dunno...



Well, I don't know which company you are talking about, but generally licence free would mean, that it's GEMA free (at least for germany) ...

The thing generally is, that GEMA is kinda like a prison. If you are working in TV or german movies, CD releasing only, then it's cool to be in there, but as soon as you are heading for games, websites and other media, the GEMA is really one of the biggest prisons ever. I had even productions I did where the GEMA demanded money even I am not a member. I had to write them a letter, stating that I am not hooked up with them.

So if there are producers for movies, games and other media and they don't want to pay thousands and thousands to GEMA members they check out licence music websites which are not involved with GEMA. You of course get buyout fees or other specified deals with the company, but at least you don't have to deal with the german mafia :D


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## mathis (Jul 29, 2008)

Thanks, this helped me.


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## Waywyn (Jul 29, 2008)

mathis @ Tue Jul 29 said:


> Thanks, this helped me.



No problem, man. Actually I hope I didn't sound too rude, but a company which actually asks/forces you to pay yourself because of having your own music available on your website should rethink their strategies and way of handling.


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## Waywyn (Jul 29, 2008)

mathis @ Tue Jul 29 said:


> Well, I guess I'm a happy GEMA member as quite some of the contemporary music wouldn't be possible without. There are quite some rules which sound weird but at closer look they actually make sense. But they're not always practical, that's certainly true.



Yeh, you are right, but the only weird rule I kinda have a problem with, is that games are not excluded. It goes that far, that lots of US game companies (and of course all german game devs) don't wanna work with german composer ONLY because he/she could be a potential GEMA member. If they would exclude games or similar, they would be definitely a bit more ahead as they are now.

(ironic mode on)Well, but in the end, I could be happy on the other side, since every GEMA composer is not allowed to work on games 8) (ironic mode off)


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## Waywyn (Jul 30, 2008)

mathis @ Wed Jul 30 said:


> Well, now after the meeting I know they didn't mean gemafrei, they just need music without any license issues, copyright-cleared music, so to say.
> 
> What I don't really understand, why it is so important to be not a member of GEMA for games. Why shouldn't the composer get a part of the success? (That's the idea of GEMA.)
> In the US, don't the composers get mechanicals for games?



In the US ASCAP, BMI and SESAC don't care about mechanical credits. They are just there for royalties on tv, movie trailers or to make it short all what belongs to performance and theatrical right.

So the cool thince since they don't care about mechanical rights game companies don't have to worry about paying royalties. One might think this is not fair etc. but I surely see a reason in there. Hwoever GEMA does care about mechanical since of the CD sales etc. ... the stupid thing is, they treat games also as CD sales.

Imagine the World of Warcraft composer would receive only 1 cent on everytime a gamer would play the game.
Since the game has around 10 mio members (don't want to discuss if that is true, in this case it wouldn't matter anyway) and assuming every member logs in once per day. This would be 10.000.000 cent per day. In a month, the guy would earn 300.000.000 cents which would obviously be 3.000.000 dollars a month. In the end of the year it would be 36.000.000 bucks a year ...

To make it short, the composer would be drop dead rich and Blizzard would be broke within a few days.

I don't know if I am having a big brainfart here, but in the end game companies couldn't afford paying so many royalties.

In germany it once happened (at least that's a very big and often discussed rumor) that a GEMA composer did music for a video game.
I don't know how that could have happened. Wasn't the game company aware of that GEMA issue or was the composer treating the game as every other project.

Anyway, I think - that's what you hear today - that the game company was broke after that happening.

If GEMA would simply exclude games, lots of more people would be in the GEMA. But in those old conservative heads of GEMA, there seems to be no place for logic thinking.

However GEMA has a form you can fill out by excluding tracks for certain things ... but game companies generally don't want to deal with GEMA composers. That's why so many game composers websites state that they are no GEMA members.
I know that in lots of cases the game companies also need a signed paper that the composer is NOT a gema member.


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## mathis (Jul 30, 2008)

Interesting, interesting...

Couple of questions, though:
If a game is treated like a music CD then royalties would be paied by the customer once he buys the CD. There is no pay-per-listen policy (how should tha be checked?). And also it's not the label which pays the royalties but the customer.

I'm not a gamer, so my questions may sound silly, but isn't a game sold on a DVD on which a one-time fee could be paid?


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## midphase (Jul 30, 2008)

"In the US, don't the composers get mechanicals for games?"



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


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## madbulk (Jul 30, 2008)

Peter Alexander @ Wed Jul 30 said:


> Better read this, guys.
> http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=1760



Article reads...
"Discovery VP of Music Services Peter McKelvy told Film Music Magazine, “Discovery strongly values the excellent relationship it has developed with the composer community over the past 24 years...."

Yeah. 
Gotta blame the composers too though. Work for hire, man. Can't be doing that. None of us. I've done it. Most of us have. But I won't be doing it again. Unless I really really need, oh, some beer or something. That oughta be the oath.


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## Waywyn (Jul 30, 2008)

madbulk @ Wed Jul 30 said:


> Gotta blame the composers too though. Work for hire, man. Can't be doing that. None of us. I've done it. Most of us have. But I won't be doing it again. Unless I really really need, oh, some beer or something. That oughta be the oath.



Are you just mean work for hire in this context or generally?
To be honest all work you do in the game bizz in work for hire.


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## madbulk (Jul 30, 2008)

Waywyn @ Wed Jul 30 said:


> madbulk @ Wed Jul 30 said:
> 
> 
> > Gotta blame the composers too though. Work for hire, man. Can't be doing that. None of us. I've done it. Most of us have. But I won't be doing it again. Unless I really really need, oh, some beer or something. That oughta be the oath.
> ...



I mean generally. Ad although you're right obviously, it's not a good thing and it was never a necessary thing. And we generally and collectively were complicit in allowing it to become the norm. So yeah, there's that beer clause in there, but in a perfect world, or just a better one, we'd take a stand. Generally. No?


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## Waywyn (Jul 30, 2008)

Well I am definitely on your site, but I see it different with especially games.
Why should only musicians get special fees for their work, why not the 3d guys for their created models or the product designers for their excellent ideas. Why do the sketch painters don't receive special credits to make it possible for the 3d guys to realize the game.

I mean all we do is the music, which is of course nearly 50% besides the visual in the end, ... but hey, it's just the sound we are doing.

In the end I deliver a product which is for a whole project package. It is not Game xxx and Alex's music. It is just Game xxx ... and I was part of the team creating it


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## madbulk (Jul 30, 2008)

Right, but that doesn't mean Game XXX needs the right to put out a production library. They can have all the game publishing rights they can dream up. Put em in the agreement and negotiate a price, and agree to come back later and negotiate in good faith for stuff we didn't think of today. They don't wanna be bothered, I get that. Too bad. It's a bother for me if you put out a production library in five years and tell me I should be happy that my music is no longer dormant.


Argh. now I'm all riled up.


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## DLR (Aug 6, 2008)

Article reads... 
"Discovery VP of Music Services Peter McKlvy told Film Music Magazine, “Discovery strongly values the excellent relationship it has developed with the composer community over the past 24 years...." 


THIS announcement had me knickers in a twist. What a slap in the face. The irony.
McKlvy's follow-up line REALLY reads...so now that we have been "nice" for 24 years, we are going to completely take advantage of them.....

Does he honestly believe the BS which he is saying. Just because one says it with a warm, friendly, DaVinci-veneered smile & Frederic Fekkai hairdo whilst wearing tailored Brioni garb, doesn't make it so. Composers - if that man offers you composing candy, walk away.

I am SURE that people who signed work for hire agreements for various Discovery shows, NEVER imagined they would team up with APM.

If they "strongly valued" their relationship with us, then they would have consulted with us, or amended the language in our contracts....with an additional stipend, of course.

This sets a dangerous precedent. However, at least now we will be able to negotiate extra fees for this secondary usage. They will say NO, and then at least you have a choice.

Honestly.


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## madbulk (Aug 6, 2008)

DLR @ Wed Aug 06 said:


> ...at least now we will be able to negotiate extra fees for this secondary usage. They will say NO, and then at least you have a choice.
> 
> Honestly.



Right, and then if only we would ALL say NO, we'd be somewhere. So it's a matter of culture change. I don't see why that's so pie in the sky. It shifted toward work for hire as the norm, it can shift back. Gradually is fine.


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