# CineBrass (v1.1 Update available now!)



## Cinesamples

We are pleased, and excited to announce our newest project, CINEBRASS.
CineBrass is our new orchestral brass library for Kontakt. Recorded in the world famous Sony Pictures Scoring stage in Los Angeles. Recorded and mixed by scoring mixer Dennis Sands (Back to the Future, Forrest Gump, Shawshank Redemption, American Beauty).

Check out this video, with interview with Dennis Sands, and composer James L. Venable.

Best, 
Mike and Mike


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

Wow, awesome! I've been hoping that cinesamples would do brass! Great video too


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

All I got to say is.......

ROCK N ROLL!!!!!
_-) _-) _-) _-) _-) _-) _-) _-)


----------



## IFM

Sweet! Definitely the year for brass!


----------



## antoniopandrade

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

YES!

2011, year of the brass!

I love CineSamples' philosophy, and I find their releases similar to TH, where they offer competitive, useful products for great prices. I'm loving what I'm seeing in this video!


And excited about Dennis Sands mixing this, the brass in those scores are simply timeless!

Can't wait to hear about the features, I hope they have a "divisi" feature a la Dimensions Brass where you can get an ensemble sound with control over the individual notes


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

One little question, though: when?


----------



## Pochflyboy

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed Apr 13 said:


> One little question, though: when?



site says "coming very soon". In the past they have delivered on wht they said. o-[][]-o 

-Joe


----------



## stonzthro

Wohoo!

"Winning, duh!"


----------



## Dave Connor

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

Most welcome news - best of luck! Straight mutes I hope!


----------



## marcotronic

Great news! Can´t wait to get the full details!

Marco


----------



## EwigWanderer

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

Fantastic!!

When? Cost?


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

Hum, that video showed everything except the essential. :shock:


----------



## Pietro

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

The background music is live recording.

http://wherestheorchestra.com/

- Piotr


----------



## TheUnfinished

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

This is very exciting. My bank manager has just frozen my account in anticipation!

I am hoping this is more of a Hollywoodwinds price than a Voxos one. As is my bank manager.


----------



## Ryan Scully

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

WOW - totally did not see that coming...How awesome! Can't wait for the details..
_-) _-) =o


----------



## NYC Composer

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

I would show up at summer NAMM to get my greedy little paws into this one-if it happened to be ready by then (hinthint).


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



Pietro @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> The background music is live recording.
> 
> http://wherestheorchestra.com/
> 
> - Piotr



I did wonder! A bit naughty that, perhaps. If they can capture that sound...


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



TheUnfinished @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> This is very exciting. My bank manager has just frozen my account in anticipation!
> 
> I am hoping this is more of a Hollywoodwinds price than a Voxos one. As is my bank manager.



Haha I definitely hear you, but at the same time I would prefer it be in between. I'm hoping for a variety of articulations and control!


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



TheUnfinished @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> This is very exciting. My bank manager has just frozen my account in anticipation!
> 
> I am hoping this is more of a Hollywoodwinds price than a Voxos one. As is my bank manager.



I think if its the product we're hoping, it's VERY unlikely to be a HWW price! If it has ensembles, solo instruments, maybe divisi to some extent, legatos etc... no way that'll be a couple of hundred bucks. HWW was the entire section, mainly for the runs and textures, so it's a different philosophy and a much smaller library. Here was can see them recording French Horns, for example, so it shows it'll be more conventional and in depth.

With the fierce competition, however, it hopefully won't be MORE than Voxos...


----------



## TheUnfinished

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



noiseboyuk @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> I think if its the product we're hoping, it's VERY unlikely to be a HWW price! If it has ensembles, solo instruments, maybe divisi to some extent, legatos etc... no way that'll be a couple of hundred bucks. HWW was the entire section, mainly for the runs and textures, so it's a different philosophy and a much smaller library. Here was can see them recording French Horns, for example, so it shows it'll be more conventional and in depth.
> 
> With the fierce competition, however, it hopefully won't be MORE than Voxos...



Alas, sadly (for me at least) I know you're right. It'll be an interesting battle with all the brass libraries coming out, that's for sure.


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



TheUnfinished @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> This is very exciting. My bank manager has just frozen my account in anticipation!
> 
> I am hoping this is more of a Hollywoodwinds price than a Voxos one. As is my bank manager.



+1 !  Hope it won´t be above 500 bucks...

But first let´s see what´s in there really before talking about prices 

Marco


----------



## MichaelL

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

The Dynamic Duo --you guys are amazing!


All the best,

Michael


----------



## MichaelL

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

The Dynamic Duo --you guys are amazing!


All the best,

Michael


----------



## Mike Connelly

noiseboyuk @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> From nowhere, yet another brass contender, but this one really has the potential to be the very best. First, it'll hopefully - like their other releases - be Kontakt so it's on the right platform to start, ncw out of the box hopefully. Second, Cinesamples get The Sound, as CineOrch and HWW both recently showed. If the track playing under in that video is from this library (could you confirm, Mikes?), we're in a new world here. It sounds stunning. Third, Cinesamples are absolutely market leaders at usability and playability. Their scripting is second to none (again, HWW and Cineorch demonstrate it superbly). Their proprietary timestretching is way better than Kontakt's for example. Playing their stuff, it's obvious its designed for composers not engineers. Fourth - what a great company... terrific support and feedback.



Pretty much what I was going to write. I'd argue that HWW sounds as good as any library available, and these guys are masters of programming. Dying to know the price and more details on section sizes/splits/mutes/etc. Oh yeah, and demos. I figured this year I'd wait until at least LASB was out to compare all the brass libraries, but if all is well with this one it may be hard to pass up - I wonder if a release of this soon will get Andrew to give a bit more info about what to expect.


----------



## artinro

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

Can't wait to hear more about this...especially if it will be arriving "very soon."


----------



## rpaillot

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

Looks PROMISING!!!!

I hope cinebrass will have a good crossfade script because I dont find the one in cineorch very good... and this is very important beside sound for a brass library ! 

So far i've never saw a real crossfade between dynamics in a brass library.


----------



## Ashermusic

Well obviously now that I work part time for EW and also am a Kirk Hunter fan I am an unlikely candidate for this but I will say that I have never heard anything come from the 2 Mikes that I did not think sounded really good.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



rpaillot @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> I hope cinebrass will have a good crossfade script because I dont find the one in cineorch very good... and this is very important beside sound for a brass library !



REALLY?!!! I find the crossfade superb (I mainly use the low chords patch). Absolutely pristine. I agree that crossfades are often poor in brass... but not on CineOrch! It's one of the reasons I'm so excited about the potential here.


----------



## Daniel James

Ashermusic @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> Well obviously now that I work part time for EW and also am a Kirk Hunter fan I am an unlikely candidate for this but I will say that I have never heard anything come from the 2 Mikes that I did not think sounded really good.



Regardless of who you work for, you should always go for the stuff that makes your end result the best. Seems silly to handicap yourself 

Looks amazing Mikes! can't wait for more details!

Dan


----------



## Patch666

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

I used to have a crappy digital piano using the mod wheel .. I too thought some mod wheel patches sucked and sounded like they were jumping.. and then when I got my new studiologic my patches were reborn .. I think the cineorch crossfading is great now.

Maybe this is a solution...

Patch


----------



## Patch666

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

I used to have a crappy digital piano using the mod wheel .. I too thought some mod wheel patches sucked and sounded like they were jumping.. and then when I got my new studiologic my patches were reborn .. I think the cineorch crossfading is great now.

Maybe this is a solution...

Patch


----------



## Ashermusic

Daniel James @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> Ashermusic @ Thu Apr 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well obviously now that I work part time for EW and also am a Kirk Hunter fan I am an unlikely candidate for this but I will say that I have never heard anything come from the 2 Mikes that I did not think sounded really good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of who you work for, you should always go for the stuff that makes your end result the best. Seems silly to handicap yourself
> 
> Looks amazing Mikes! can't wait for more details!
> 
> Dan
Click to expand...


Well, IMHO, there is never only 1 choice that "makes your end result the best."

IMHO I made good sounding stuff with my Proteus 2 orchestral and a Kurzweil 1000 PX, I make good sounding stuff with my present libraries, and I believe I will make good sounding stuff with whatever choices I make in the future.

It's the guy far more than the gear.


----------



## germancomponist

Ashermusic @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> It's the guy far more than the gear.



Well said, Jay!

Some years ago I was at a concert where two bands played. The guitar player in the first band used only an old Fender Twin amp and a volume pedal. His playing and sound was incredible good. The guitar player in the other band had a very big rack with three pre-amps, many effects like an eventide e.t.c. . But, his playing and sound was only so so.... .


----------



## rJames

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

Bring it on!

BTW Great cue in the King's Speech piece!


----------



## Daniel James

Ashermusic @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> Daniel James @ Thu Apr 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ashermusic @ Thu Apr 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well obviously now that I work part time for EW and also am a Kirk Hunter fan I am an unlikely candidate for this but I will say that I have never heard anything come from the 2 Mikes that I did not think sounded really good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of who you work for, you should always go for the stuff that makes your end result the best. Seems silly to handicap yourself
> 
> Looks amazing Mikes! can't wait for more details!
> 
> Dan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, IMHO, there is never only 1 choice that "makes your end result the best."
> 
> IMHO I made good sounding stuff with my Proteus 2 orchestral and a Kurzweil 1000 PX, I make good sounding stuff with my present libraries, and I believe I will make good sounding stuff with whatever choices I make in the future.
> 
> It's the guy far more than the gear.
Click to expand...


Heh I never said there was only 1 choice, infact I said the opposite..you shouldn't restrict yourself based on your employment :D

But anyway lets not discuss this here, if you wish to talk about it further shoot me a PM.

I wonder if this announcement will make the other devs making brass libraries start announcing details. Could be an interesting few weeks.

Dan


----------



## germancomponist

Daniel James @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> Could be an interesting few weeks.
> 
> Dan



Smile.... . o/~


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

What Ned said --- WHEN? Never purchased anything from the 2 Mikes I just wasn't tickled to have. Solid company - this should be no different.

Obviously with all the options to consider and upcoming projects - the 'when' is key.


Couple things I'll be looking for that will help me decide:


1. ppp-fff dynamic range on as many instruments as possible
2. SOLO french horn with REAL legato (love a solo trumpet as well.)
3. Divisi



--and of course the 'sound' (Cineorch being the best example for the softer stuff - just pure butter. now get the fff stuff right and it will be a hit). :wink:


----------



## Ashermusic

Heh I never said there was only 1 choice, infact I said the opposite..you shouldn't restrict yourself based on your employment :D

B
Dan[/quote]

But I need to point out that I'm not. I mentioned being a fan of Kirk Hunter. I am not employed by him.


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



Patch666 @ Fri Apr 15 said:


> I used to have a crappy digital piano using the mod wheel .. I too thought some mod wheel patches sucked and sounded like they were jumping.. and then when I got my new studiologic my patches were reborn .. I think the cineorch crossfading is great now.



I had the same problem, my keyboard modwheel seems to have some small artifacts that made dynamic patches sounds really nasty. After hooking up my iPhone to adjust mod (lame i know), i have to agree the CineOrch dynamic crossfading really is spectacular.


----------



## Daniel James

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



robibla @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> Patch666 @ Fri Apr 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used to have a crappy digital piano using the mod wheel .. I too thought some mod wheel patches sucked and sounded like they were jumping.. and then when I got my new studiologic my patches were reborn .. I think the cineorch crossfading is great now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had the same problem, my keyboard modwheel seems to have some small artifacts that made dynamic patches sounds really nasty. After hooking up my iPhone to adjust mod (lame i know), i have to agree the CineOrch dynamic crossfading really is spectacular.
Click to expand...


My Keyboard also does this, so I assign all my midi information to my Korg nanKontrol...godsend :D

Dan


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



Daniel James @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> robibla @ Thu Apr 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patch666 @ Fri Apr 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used to have a crappy digital piano using the mod wheel .. I too thought some mod wheel patches sucked and sounded like they were jumping.. and then when I got my new studiologic my patches were reborn .. I think the cineorch crossfading is great now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had the same problem, my keyboard modwheel seems to have some small artifacts that made dynamic patches sounds really nasty. After hooking up my iPhone to adjust mod (lame i know), i have to agree the CineOrch dynamic crossfading really is spectacular.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My Keyboard also does this, so I assign all my midi information to my Korg nanKontrol...godsend :D
> 
> Dan
Click to expand...


Wow, that would drive me insane! I have a basic m-audio keystation 88, pretty cheap but the modwheel is solid. Playing the legato line with the right hand and left hand on the modwheel is just hardwired into my brain now, its the only way I know to keep things sounding alive. Don't think the nanokontrol would make this easy!

Not wanting to go too far OT, but part of the reason I get on so well with LASS I think is that it has the modwheel so good, really smooth and expressive and those legatos just sing. That's EXACTLY what I'm looking for in a new brass library, along with great repetitions etc. I've got very high hopes that Cinesamples will do just that. I've said it before and I'll say it again - the expressivity in CineOrch walks over much of the far higher priced competition, largely due to the superb modwheel velocity implementation and also the transitions between notes which are really smooth.


----------



## NYC Composer

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



noiseboyuk @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> Daniel James @ Thu Apr 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> robibla @ Thu Apr 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patch666 @ Fri Apr 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used to have a crappy digital piano using the mod wheel .. I too thought some mod wheel patches sucked and sounded like they were jumping.. and then when I got my new studiologic my patches were reborn .. I think the cineorch crossfading is great now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had the same problem, my keyboard modwheel seems to have some small artifacts that made dynamic patches sounds really nasty. After hooking up my iPhone to adjust mod (lame i know), i have to agree the CineOrch dynamic crossfading really is spectacular.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My Keyboard also does this, so I assign all my midi information to my Korg nanKontrol...godsend :D
> 
> Dan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don'tcha just hate that friggin' mushy keyboard??( I have one too)
> 
> Ok, back on topic :wink:
> 
> Wow, that would drive me insane! I have a basic m-audio keystation 88, pretty cheap but the modwheel is solid. Playing the legato line with the right hand and left hand on the modwheel is just hardwired into my brain now, its the only way I know to keep things sounding alive. Don't think the nanokontrol would make this easy!
> 
> Not wanting to go too far OT, but part of the reason I get on so well with LASS I think is that it has the modwheel so good, really smooth and expressive and those legatos just sing. That's EXACTLY what I'm looking for in a new brass library, along with great repetitions etc. I've got very high hopes that Cinesamples will do just that. I've said it before and I'll say it again - the expressivity in CineOrch walks over much of the far higher priced competition, largely due to the superb modwheel velocity implementation and also the transitions between notes which are really smooth.
Click to expand...


----------



## adg21

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



Patch666 @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> I used to have a crappy digital piano using the mod wheel .. I too thought some mod wheel patches sucked and sounded like they were jumping.. and then when I got my new studiologic my patches were reborn .. I think the cineorch crossfading is great now.
> 
> Maybe this is a solution...
> 
> Patch



Which studiologic btw?


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

We will have some details coming in the next week or so. We are pretty far along with the process - so that's good news. 

We are really happy with the sound, the tone, all in. Really a "familiar" sound.


----------



## Patrick de Caumette

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

Game on! _-)


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



mikebarry @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> We will have some details coming in the next week or so. We are pretty far along with the process - so that's good news.
> 
> We are really happy with the sound, the tone, all in. Really a "familiar" sound.




Sounds good Mike - when you can, share with us schedule on release. Game IS on. :D


----------



## noiseboyuk

I do like the use of the word "familiar".  I guess that word sums up the goal of a library like this, and on past evidence it's within grasp. Can't wait to see and hear what you guys have come up with this time...


----------



## Mike Connelly

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



Rob Elliott @ Thu Apr 14 said:


> 1. ppp-fff dynamic range on as many instruments as possible
> 2. SOLO french horn with REAL legato (love a solo trumpet as well.)
> 3. Divisi



I'd say it would be great to have at least two solo horn and trumpet (or at least a second one of each with at least the basic articulations). But I guess that would probably fall under divisi. That's one of the tricky things with brass, handling 1/2/3/x trumpets including situations where parts alternate between unison and separate parts.

Another big thing is handling crescendos particularly on the solo instruments. Crossfades are hard to get to sound right (only SampleModeling really nails that, and that's not really a crossfade), but recorded performances aren't as flexible. Maybe a variety of speeds recorded plus timestretching to match tempos?


----------



## Hannesdm

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

Judging from the video, I do think there will be solo horn (1:56) and solo trumpet (2:11) in this library!

And could that be Rick Baptist on 2:11?

Really looking forward to more details and demos!


----------



## Ashermusic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



Hannesdm @ Fri Apr 15 said:


> Judging from the video, I do think there will be solo horn (1:56) and solo trumpet (2:11) in this library!
> 
> And could that be Rick Baptist on 2:11?
> 
> Really looking forward to more details and demos!



Rick is my first call guy but all I see there is a hand.


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



Mike Connelly @ Fri Apr 15 said:


> Rob Elliott @ Thu Apr 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe a variety of speeds recorded plus timestretching to match tempos?
Click to expand...



Really liking this idea Mike. Crossfades just don't cut it for sampled brass. Should be called crossPHASE. :cry:


----------



## windshore

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

not Rick

They're all good players though... no worry


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



Rob Elliott @ Fri Apr 15 said:


> Mike Connelly @ Fri Apr 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rob Elliott @ Thu Apr 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe a variety of speeds recorded plus timestretching to match tempos?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really liking this idea Mike. Crossfades just don't cut it for sampled brass. Should be called crossPHASE. :cry:
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



Hmm... not quite sure that it's fundamentally flawed. I've heard it implemented terribly, but also pretty well - Cineorch contains brass and it sounds perfect (although it doesn't go to fff). Another brass library I've been testing does a great job on the modwheel (other areas are more problematic).

Getting good cc1 xfades is critical to getting a playable library for me. I don't want to have to load up different articulations for every cresc and dim, but moreover I want to be able to swell up and down during legato lines, which pre-recorded dynamics can never help with. Don't think its impossible... if anyone can do it, Cinesamples can!


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

Until our CPU’s can handle having hundreds or thousands more samples available (ram or disk), the best way to achieve complete dynamics control via mod wheel might be a combination of samples and modeling.


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

we are big fans of KISS.


----------



## dogforester

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



CineSamples @ Fri Apr 15 said:


> we are big fans of KISS.



Keep It Simple Stupid.lol
Is this a seperated lib ala voxos or like hollywoodwinds?


----------



## gsilbers

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

was price mentioned?

around what a price?


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



CineSamples @ Fri Apr 15 said:


> we are big fans of KISS.




Ok - now with this statement you have to get that famous band from the 80's into the studio. Perhaps offer that as an early bird bonus. _-)


----------



## Patch666

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



adg21 @ Fri Apr 15 said:


> Patch666 @ Thu Apr 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used to have a crappy digital piano using the mod wheel .. I too thought some mod wheel patches sucked and sounded like they were jumping.. and then when I got my new studiologic my patches were reborn .. I think the cineorch crossfading is great now.
> 
> Maybe this is a solution...
> 
> Patch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which studiologic btw?
Click to expand...


Studiologic SL990Pro .. Mod wheel is good.. pitch wheel .. not good.


----------



## Ed

Actually its kinda cool they are doing brass before strings because even though I'm really more interested in Hollywood Brass, if they do strings they will have learn't more on how to do it better when they get around to it. If EW did strings last, they would have gotten it better too :D


----------



## MaestroRage

I'm a huge brass fan. My money is practically yours on release. Keeping my eyes glued to the thread and site haha


----------



## noiseboyuk

My favourite dog whistle brass library words...

KISS
SOON
VERY
KONTAKT
FAMILIAR
BACK
TO
THE
FUTURE

Dogforester - I'd say it's a near-certainty from the video that it's a separated library. Would be great to have some big ensembles too mind, a la Symphobia.

EDIT - the excitement is getting too much, I watched the video again. 2 things I noticed:

1 - @2.10 - one of the charts for the trumpets has legato intervals on it (which I guess is a given, still nice to see though).

2 - Hey, they're playing from A to *M*! That's at least 6 more notes than everyone else (more if they include the rarely heard Jb and L#).


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

Going to NI this week. It's pretty much done.

Yes of course it has legato - its 2011


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



mikebarry @ Thu Apr 21 said:


> Going to NI this week. It's pretty much done.
> 
> Yes of course it has legato - its 2011



Hooooooray! _-) 

I can´t wait to get more details. The fact that it´s "going to NI" obviously means it´s a Kontakt *Player* Lib which in turn means "it´s going to be pricey"...

But okay - let´s see what you have up your sleeves! :D 

Marco


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

awesome! can't wait to hear some samples!


----------



## artinro

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

Great news. Can't wait to learn/hear more!


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



mikebarry @ Thu Apr 21 said:


> Going to NI this week. It's pretty much done.
> 
> Yes of course it has legato - its 2011



Wowzers. More amazing news! Anyone know how long the NI process takes, typically?


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

I’ve heard that the NI thing takes from 2-6 weeks. Not sure if it’s true though.

In the mean time, let’s hear more demos, teasers, info !!


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*



Here's a quick demo of what we're calling the "Trumpet Articulations" patch. So quick and easy to use...


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Noiseboy:

Yup, there was no going back and adjusting volumes etc. Some adjustments to CC#2 however, just to make sure the artics were right. (Gregjazz can speak to this in more details, as he made the video) Right now we're assessing the best way to switch between the different lengths of articulations as to make it as "composer friendly" as possible... our motto. In this demo we are using CC#2 to determine the attack length. But in the patch there will be a choice of either CC#, Velocity or Keyswitch to switch between artics. Using velocity to switch between different lengths is proving so far to be the most idiomatic... but still testing... either way, composers will have choices to customize.
Point is... it has to be SIMPLE to use... no one wants to tweak!

As far as true legato.. yes we painstakingly grabbed all that... it's not in this patch though.. that's a separate one.

More details comin'

Mike P


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Awesome!! Keep them coming!


----------



## noiseboyuk

Great stuff Greg and Mike. I love the mission to make it easy to play, so so important - both Cinesamples and OTS have really been leading the way there. Without playing it it's hard to know, but in my head I'd probably go for cc1 velocity, overlaps for legatos, then key velocity for attacks, with louder being more aggressive (not sure if that equates to shortness of attack?). That could be awesome actually - in my imagination that should be really intuitive, especially if that meant you didn't need a separate short articulation patch / keyswitch.

I'm sure I speak for many of us that we'll have insatiable appetite for demos here! Can't wait to hear both the legato and cc1 velocity transitions on sustains.


----------



## marcotronic

Cool! Yeah, I, too, have that insatiable appetite! So pleeeeeease give us more examples! 

I, for one, wanna hear some cinematic horn sections (divisi?!) that kick some serious butt!

Marco


----------



## Polarity

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

The timbre of these trumpets seems very good!
Yeah very Indy


----------



## Studio E

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



rgames @ Fri Apr 22 said:


> Great line, too - you should do something with that
> 
> rgames



Lol!


----------



## Studio E

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Seriously though, this library looks awesome!


----------



## adg21

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

To me Trumpet samples have always been the worst offenders; the ultimate MIDI 'give away'. 

But this sounds v good. Looking forward to hearing more

p.s. I really hope it will let me play brass like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1wz4PPFuc0 I pine for those bullet staccatos and no library in the world will let me do them well.


----------



## stonzthro

Sounds great - give us more!!!


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



adg21 @ Fri Apr 22 said:


> I really hope it will let me play brass like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1wz4PPFuc0 I pine for those bullet staccatos and no library in the world will let me do them well.



'tis true. I hear that a lot in film scores, and every time I think "nope, can't pull that off yet!"


----------



## David Story

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

[quote:72639d4a41="CineSamples @ Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:50 
pm"]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1WorAt0lLs


Here's a quick demo of what we're calling ò ƒ   íÃH ƒ   íÈd ƒ   íÈ… ƒ   íËt ƒ   íË© ƒ   íÍW ƒ   íÍc ƒ   íÓ ƒ   íÓ` ƒ   íÖ9 ƒ   íÖQ ƒ   íØ^ ƒ   íØÖ ƒ   íâù ƒ   íã. ƒ   íøû ƒ   íùG ƒ   íûõ ƒ   íü9 ƒ   îš ƒ   î ƒ   îy ƒ   î€ ƒ   îÁ ƒ   îÊ ƒ   îN


----------



## gsilbers

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

any comment on the price?

ballpark figure?


----------



## Justus

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

My challenge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUoCceIGqHM&feature=player_detailpage#t=300s


----------



## adg21

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Rob @ Fri Apr 22 said:


> I think wivi can come close to this...


Unfortunately I didn't think much of the WIVI brass sound when I tried it on Trysound, but i'll sure check it out again if you think it does this well, thanks


----------



## adg21

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Justus @ Fri Apr 22 said:


> My challenge:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUoCceIGqHM&feature=player_detailpage#t=300s


now that's what I'm talking about


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

It sounds pretty damn close to real thing - lets take the goggles of bias off for a moment.

I have the hd versions of both and as a composer I am happy to have a tool like this.


----------



## Rob

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



adg21 @ 22nd April 2011 said:


> Rob @ Fri Apr 22 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think wivi can come close to this...
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I didn't think much of the WIVI brass sound when I tried it on Trysound, but i'll sure check it out again if you think it does this well, thanks
Click to expand...


Just saying it can come close, not perfect... double tongued staccatos in particular


----------



## Ed

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



mikebarry @ Fri Apr 22 said:


> It sounds pretty damn close to real thing - lets take the goggles of bias off for a moment.



I agree, I think the Trumpet sounds great in your example.. Btw you should upload HD videos so people can listen in high quality.


----------



## germancomponist

Opsss,

just now I had downloaded it. 

Sounds good!


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

We thought this was pretty cool. This was taken the day before our brass sessions at SONY.
JW conducting some arrangements he did for the Oscars.
I think the conductors seat was still warm...


----------



## germancomponist

Smile, have u used the baton from JW also? o/~


----------



## Mike Connelly

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS!*

Just curious, when did the actual recording take place? With full legato and the detail in programming, seems like it must have been a while ago.




noiseboyuk @ Fri Apr 15 said:


> Hmm... not quite sure that it's fundamentally flawed. I've heard it implemented terribly, but also pretty well - Cineorch contains brass and it sounds perfect (although it doesn't go to fff).



Cineorch does the crossfades well, but that's full orchestra (and chords in two of the three patches). I'd say that individual brass sections are trickier and solo instruments even more so. Is there a library out there that does dynamic crossfades on solo brass that sounds as good as recorded dynamics?

Best case would be playable dynamics that sound as good as recorded ones (or at least darn close) but if that's not possible I wouldn't mind a crec keyswitch patch that included all the variations and locked to tempo, similar to the HWW runs patches. Shame that Kontakt doesn't have better realtime timestretching (at least not yet) but the CS guys seem to be able to work around that to some degree. Modeled instruments are the king of realtime dynamics but the trick is getting the sound right for orchestral writing.



CineSamples @ Fri Apr 22 said:


> Yup, there was no going back and adjusting volumes etc. Some adjustments to CC#2 however, just to make sure the artics were right. (Gregjazz can speak to this in more details, as he made the video) Right now we're assessing the best way to switch between the different lengths of articulations as to make it as "composer friendly" as possible... our motto. In this demo we are using CC#2 to determine the attack length. But in the patch there will be a choice of either CC#, Velocity or Keyswitch to switch between artics. Using velocity to switch between different lengths is proving so far to be the most idiomatic... but still testing... either way, composers will have choices to customize.
> Point is... it has to be SIMPLE to use... no one wants to tweak!



Sounds like you guys have given it a lot of thought (as expected). Have you considered any programming options that are breath/wind controller specific?




adg21 @ Fri Apr 22 said:


> p.s. I really hope it will let me play brass like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1wz4PPFuc0 I pine for those bullet staccatos and no library in the world will let me do them well.



Good point, the double/triple tonguing is it's own beast and hard to pull off with samples. It would be great to have a playable patch that could handle it, otherwise seems like a good candidate for a repetition patch that has prerecorded 16ths for things like that (probably multiple speeds with time compression to match tempo). VSL does a repetition patch, don't they?



Ashermusic @ Fri Apr 22 said:


> Exactly! It sounds just like the real thing until you put it next to the real thing.



Funny, I was MORE impressed when I compared it back to back with the original. Sure, some of the note lengths don't match the original but I assume more tweaking could get it even closer - for the most part I'd say it sounds more like live players that aren't doing the articulations just like the original.


----------



## Dave Connor

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Congrats that sounds very good! That's pretty big for a single trumpet or are we hearing more there?

Yes the note lengths as stated above were not quite right in places. I guess either a slew of different lengths or time stretching is the key to that issue whatever the library.

In any case so far so good!


----------



## Pedro Camacho

If this library gets the same principle as LASS with autodivisi, I will definitely buy it


----------



## germancomponist

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Simon Ravn @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> Sounds promising, but still seems to be some tuning work to go 8)



Oh no! Please no tunig to 100%! This will kill the human factor.... .


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



germancomponist @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Sat Apr 23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds promising, but still seems to be some tuning work to go 8)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no! Please no tunig to 100%! This will kill the human factor.... .
Click to expand...


Yes, but somewhere between "perfect" and "high school orchestra" will be most useful.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Simon Ravn @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> Yes, but somewhere between "perfect" and "high school orchestra" will be most useful.



Oh for God's sake.

Mikes - please ignore posts like this!


----------



## MichaelL

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Simon Ravn @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> germancomponist @ Sat Apr 23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simon Ravn @ Sat Apr 23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds promising, but still seems to be some tuning work to go 8)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no! Please no tunig to 100%! This will kill the human factor.... .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, but somewhere between "perfect" and "high school orchestra" will be most useful.
Click to expand...



If you want artificial perfection, I'm sure that option will be available in another library. 
Give me something that lives and breathes, not the musical equivalent of collagen inflated lips.

Bravo Mike & Mike


----------



## Jimbo 88

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

I really feel sorry for people with perfect pitch. They seem to miss the emotional aspect that music generates...


----------



## Ashermusic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Jimbo 88 @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> I really feel sorry for people with perfect pitch. They seem to miss the emotional aspect that music generates...[/quote
> 
> I am sorry but that is total nonsense. I went to school with 2 people with perfect pitch and their emotional connection to music was as profound as any I have encountered in over 50 years if being a musician.
> 
> Check this out as well.
> http://www.perfectpitchpeople.com/


----------



## Windle

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Simon Ravn @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> Sounds promising, but still seems to be some tuning work to go 8)



Agreed. The tone on that demo is very good indeed but it's not quite a great pass because of the pitching. 

There is lots of talk about "humanising" the tuning but the players I work with work very hard to make the tuning as perfect as possible.

It's much harder for players to nail pitch in sample sessions as they have to play "out of context."

I would have thought a little tweaking would pay big dividends for the potential users as this is obviously going to be a serious library in intention and price.

W.


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

IMO, there is absolutely no emotion, and very little "humaness" in out-of-tune samples.

OTOH, the tuning features in Vienna Instruments Pro is fantastic for adding that "slightly different tuning each time you play it" sensation.

Without a feature that manages the "out-of-tuness", the samples need to be perfectly in tune. o/~


----------



## dannthr

Well, even consistently out of tune samples sound mechanical.

Humanization is creating that random element--are the samples in-tune or not? You won't know until you play it, and it won't be exactly the same as last time.


----------



## Ashermusic

The following is NOT a comment on the tuning of this specific library or any other specific library.

No human can play a wind, brass or string instrument perfectly in tune at all times but good players strive mightily to achieve close to that, except in certain musical circumstances. I want the sample libraries I use to emulate that.

Musicians have different sensitivity to tuning issues. My good friend Bruce Miller has less tolerance for them than I do, others have more tolerance than I do so everybody draws a different line in the sand.

Let me say again that what I have written is NOT a comment on the tuning of this specific library or any other specific library


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

FYI (for those who don’t know) Even-tempered is already out-of-tune. Real players play at times even more in tune than even-tempered.


----------



## Frederick Russ

I'm actually on both sides of this debate. I believe repetitive out of tune brass sounds mechanical. Players are always tuning while they play which is a very unique characteristic which isn't relying upon one tuning but more progressive. Consistent perfectly tuned brass also sounds mechanical - no real brass sounds like that. 

What's hard to deal with though are sustain notes that are out of tune in relation to the rest of the orchestra. Real players automatically tune up or down to compensate. Would be cool to have some kind of script to emulate this constant tuning compensation - I'm dreaming of course but hey, ideas are cheap


----------



## Ashermusic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



jamwerks @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> FYI (for those who don’t know) Even-tempered is already out-of-tune. Real players play at times even more in tune than even-tempered.



True, even-tempered is a compromise our ears have adjusted to so that a piano need not have an unwieldy amount of keys as it would require 26 semi-tones per octave instead of 11, I believe.


----------



## dannthr

I agree, Frederick.

What would be sexy is a divisi brass section that tuned the individual desks to pure tuning over time during a phrase.

So, for example, if 2nd Trumpet tuned up to match the 1st Trumpets harmonics on note 1, he would have to adjust from that point to a new tuning on note 2 and so forth.

Talk about real legato! :D


----------



## jamwerks

Frederick Russ @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> Players are always tuning while they play....Real players automatically tune up or down to compensate. Would be cool to have some kind of script to emulate this constant tuning compensation



You’re not dreaming, the "Human performance control" in VSL Vienna Instruments Pro does just that!


----------



## Frederick Russ

dannthr @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> I agree, Frederick.
> 
> What would be sexy is a divisi brass section that tuned the individual desks to pure tuning over time during a phrase.
> 
> So, for example, if 2nd Trumpet tuned up to match the 1st Trumpets harmonics on note 1, he would have to adjust from that point to a new tuning on note 2 and so forth.
> 
> Talk about real legato! :D



That would be brilliant actually. In conjunction with a really nice sounding live room that might really work out great. Back on topic though, looking forward to this brass library release.


----------



## dcoscina

I don't have perfect pitch but, like many, a pretty good relative pitch and didn't find the demo to be too bad. Some earlier LASS offerings did have some tuning problems that were easy to spot but I think that even if you listen to the original Raiders March recording, you will hear some slight pitch inconsistencies.


----------



## adg21

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

I'd also be against any post-produced pitch altering especially if it involves any sort of batch autotuning (maybe the odd manual change on one sample only if absolutelty necessary). You used professional players that played on Indy itself! Just go with it.


----------



## germancomponist

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

I am a little bit confused. 

I remember the days when Altiverb came out. Oh what a hype! So many people then asked for completely dry recorded libraries. Only Samplemodeling have produced completely dry recorded libraries (VSL isn`t dry, there is their room included in the samples...) where you can control anything, and when using the right reverb settings, you can let it sound as you like. For controlling the tune you only have to use the pitch wheel.... .

Now, Cinesamples do produce a brass library on a bigger stage, what East West did some years ago in a hall. I remember so many people said: "Oh, the room information in their samples limit me....". 

So what do you want? o=<


----------



## SF_Guy

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

I'm really hoping for separated parts:

Trumpet 1
Trumpet 2
Trumpet 3
Trumpet 4 (would be great to have 4)

Horn 1 (would be great to have 8 - 2 pair of 4 parts)
Horn 2
Horn 3
Horn 4

Tenor Trombone 1
Tenor Trombone 2
Tenor Trombone 3 (would be great to have 3)
Bass Trombone 1
Bass Trombone 2
Tuba 1

Any hints of the breakdown?


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Don't worry guys - you can trust us we know what we are doing.


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



germancomponist @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> I am a little bit confused.
> 
> I remember the days when Altiverb came out. Oh what a hype! So many people then asked for completely dry recorded libraries. Only Samplemodeling have produced completely dry recorded libraries (VSL isn`t dry, there is their room included in the samples...) where you can control anything, and when using the right reverb settings, you can let it sound as you like. For controlling the tune you only have to use the pitch wheel.... .
> 
> Now, Cinesamples do produce a brass library on a bigger stage, what East West did some years ago in a hall. I remember so many people said: "Oh, the room information in their samples limit me....".
> 
> So what do you want? o=<



Ever hear the old saying - you cant please everyone? It was created for exactly the reasons you mention.


----------



## Treb

I can't wait to hear your horns. With this being the year of the brass, I'm eager to finally hear some current-gen Epic Horn killers.


----------



## lux

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



noiseboyuk @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Sat Apr 23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but somewhere between "perfect" and "high school orchestra" will be most useful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh for God's sake.
> 
> Mikes - please ignore posts like this!
Click to expand...


Guy have you ever heard Simon's stuff? Well you should, before talking about ignoring peoples opinions. Simon is a talented composer with pretty nice ears and a long experience in achieving mockup realism, so, whether I agree or not, i tend to take his impression into good consideration and to match them with my own ones.

I would like to invite you to do the same. As in this stage opinions coming from expert ears are only supposed to provide improvements to the product, which is what everyone wants, after all.


----------



## SF_Guy

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



mikebarry @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> Don't worry guys - you can trust us we know what we are doing.



Yes! Now that's what I like to hear!!! =o


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Greg is programming this - as he did with Voxos, HWW and Cineorch to name a few.


----------



## lux

ok, thanks. Well thats a nice plus in my book as i'm a fan of Greg's work.


----------



## NYC Composer

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



gregjazz @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> Jimbo 88 @ Sat Apr 23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I really feel sorry for people with perfect pitch. They seem to miss the emotional aspect that music generates...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I feel like _because_ I have perfect pitch, I can even better appreciate tuning nuances that add to the emotional content of a performance. But not to get off-topic...
> 
> 
> 
> I've been fine-tuning things like start points of samples and minor tuning here and there. Don't worry, the library sounds far from robotic/mechanical. Honestly, I've never played a library that has such a rich tone directly from Kontakt.
Click to expand...


I have perfect pitch as well. It's a neat parlour trick, but it sometimes makes transposition a bitch.

That said, I'd like tuning in between-something that resonates with good pitch,retaining some human feeling (i.e. not PERFECT) but no clinkers or anything close to one.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



lux @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> Guy have you ever heard Simon's stuff? Well you should, before talking about ignoring peoples opinions. Simon is a talented composer with pretty nice ears and a long experience in achieving mockup realism, so, wether I agree or not, i tend to take his impression into good consideration and to match them with my own ones.
> 
> I would like to invite you to do the same. As in this stage opinions coming from expert ears are only supposed to provide improvements to the product, which is what everyone wants, after all.



It was the tone I was objecting too - it seemed incredibly rude to me on a respected developer's thread, there were far more constructive ways of saying what he did. Nuff said.


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

In addition to the wonderful sound of the Sony room and the mic positions Dennis' offered we thought of a unique way to handle the reverb.

We wanted to find a way to include the "best" possible reverb we could. So CineBrass comes with a new feature. We purchased a Bricasti M7 and A/B'd all the impulses,selecting the best one for this project. From there we proceeded to bounce the entire library through it (digitally - no degredation) so you wouldn't need to use a software IR (which hardly does justice to this magic box). 

So cinebrass comes with a pass of the best reverb in the world, the real thing - not a software IR, and you can dial it up to how much you like. All controlled via the Kontakt interface.


----------



## gsilbers

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



CineSamples @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> In addition to the wonderful sound of the Sony room and the mic positions Dennis' offered we thought of a unique way to handle the reverb.
> 
> We wanted to find a way to include the "best" possible reverb we could. So CineBrass comes with a new feature. We purchased a Bricasti M7 and A/B'd all the impulses,selecting the best one for this project. From there we proceeded to bounce the entire library through it (digitally - no degredation) so you wouldn't need to use a software IR (which hardly does justice to this magic box).
> 
> So cinebrass comes with a pass of the best reverb in the world, the real thing - not a software IR, and you can dial it up to how much you like. All controlled via the Kontakt interface.



so you guys recorded a sample through an M7 many times so that was it has 9% wet, 12%wet. 25% wet up to 100% wet? 

that would increase the size of this library to a very very big file size.

you also wrote that you A/B impulses for the M7 but we all know the M7 is an algo verb... so im confuse on that part. or the impulse means preset in bricasti talk??


----------



## gregjazz

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



gsilbers @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> you also wrote that you A/B impulses for the M7 but we all know the M7 is an algo verb... so im confuse on that part. or the impulse means preset in bricasti talk??



Yes, "impulse" as in preset in the Bricasti. As well as including a bunch of different mic positions, there is also another channel to add in the Bricasti reverb. All the samples were run through the Bricasti, so that's another tonal resource when it comes to adjusting the ambience of the library. When heard the Bricasti reverb I was floored--it sounds incredible. But what do you expect from a $3,000+ module dedicated to reverb? 

The cool thing is that besides being able to independently change the volumes of the different mic signals and Bricasti reverb, you can also send them out to separate audio channels. Speaking of which, you can also enable/disable each channel, loading and unloading them from memory. That way, if you only need to use the room mics, it won't use more RAM than it needs to, unloading the unused channels.


----------



## Joe S

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

They have a 100% wet version of every sample that you can mix in. I have a Bricasti and find it good, but very boring. Getting good results with Spaces. Spaces sounds similar to the Bricasti, but it is much more diverse in tones and sounds more lifelike in some cases. Good idea with the Bricasti, though. I am sure it sounds good.


----------



## Windle

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



gregjazz @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> I've been fine-tuning things like start points of samples and minor tuning here and there. Don't worry, the library sounds far from robotic/mechanical. Honestly, I've never played a library that has such a rich tone directly from Kontakt.



I'm sorry to hark on about the tuning issue but it's a big one for me.

Was the Indiana Jones example made after some tuning tweaks had been done by you?

Are we listening to what CineSamples would consider about right in terms of pitch?

W.

p.s. Happy Easter!


----------



## EwigWanderer

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Shouldn't we just wait until CineBrass is released and rumble about tuning issues then...If there are any.. 

IMO it's pointles to judge a demo which is probably made with unfinished product.


----------



## Windle

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



EwigWanderer @ Sun Apr 24 said:


> Shouldn't we just wait until CineBrass is released and rumble about tuning issues then...If there are any..
> 
> IMO it's pointles to judge a demo which is probably made with unfinished product.



I think that developers rarely release official demos when they are not very happy with what they are presenting.

This is a chance for them to gauge users' reactions before they finish and then make necessary adjustments if they see fit as well as build up interest.

Say nothing now and nothing will be done until after the release which could mean more time/effort to correct any issues. By making constructive comments now it helps us all.

W.


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



MichaelL @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Sat Apr 23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> germancomponist @ Sat Apr 23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simon Ravn @ Sat Apr 23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds promising, but still seems to be some tuning work to go 8)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no! Please no tunig to 100%! This will kill the human factor.... .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, but somewhere between "perfect" and "high school orchestra" will be most useful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you want artificial perfection, I'm sure that option will be available in another library.
> Give me something that lives and breathes, not the musical equivalent of collagen inflated lips.
> 
> Bravo Mike & Mike
Click to expand...


I don't want artificial perfection, but your aim with samples is to sound like a professional orchestra playing it, I am sure you would agree. And I just think the tuning seems to have some way to go in that Indiana Jones example, that's all.

I am sure the people at CineSamples know that the tuning isn't perfect in that example and when the final library will come out, it will sound quite a lot better and I am looking forward to demos from a closer to final product, since I actually think and hope that this will be a great brass library


----------



## Revson

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



CineSamples @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> In addition to the wonderful sound of the Sony room and the mic positions Dennis' offered we thought of a unique way to handle the reverb.
> 
> We wanted to find a way to include the "best" possible reverb we could. So CineBrass comes with a new feature. We purchased a Bricasti M7 and A/B'd all the impulses,selecting the best one for this project. From there we proceeded to bounce the entire library through it (digitally - no degredation) so you wouldn't need to use a software IR (which hardly does justice to this magic box).
> 
> So cinebrass comes with a pass of the best reverb in the world, the real thing - not a software IR, and you can dial it up to how much you like. All controlled via the Kontakt interface.



Having once owned one of these magic boxes (the Bricasti), I'm very curious: what preset did you settle on? Wild guess: Berlin Hall.


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Revson @ Sun Apr 24 said:


> CineSamples @ Sat Apr 23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In addition to the wonderful sound of the Sony room and the mic positions Dennis' offered we thought of a unique way to handle the reverb.
> 
> We wanted to find a way to include the "best" possible reverb we could. So CineBrass comes with a new feature. We purchased a Bricasti M7 and A/B'd all the impulses,selecting the best one for this project. From there we proceeded to bounce the entire library through it (digitally - no degredation) so you wouldn't need to use a software IR (which hardly does justice to this magic box).
> 
> So cinebrass comes with a pass of the best reverb in the world, the real thing - not a software IR, and you can dial it up to how much you like. All controlled via the Kontakt interface.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having once owned one of these magic boxes (the Bricasti), I'm very curious: what preset did you settle on? Wild guess: Berlin Hall.
Click to expand...


My guess is on the 'Boston A' room (slightly shorter tail than preset). In any case - really looking forward to this release.


----------



## Mike Connelly

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



germancomponist @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> Now, Cinesamples do produce a brass library on a bigger stage, what East West did some years ago in a hall. I remember so many people said: "Oh, the room information in their samples limit me...."



This library has multiple mic positions so there should be a good choice of closer mics or more hall (plus an additional hardware verb "mic position"). This demo is the full mix patch, so likely one of the wetter options. And I think it's extremely unlikely that the hall sound is anywhere close to the hall sound of EWQLSO, one was a big orchestral concert hall and the other a scoring stage.



mikebarry @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> Don't worry guys - you can trust us we know what we are doing.



No doubt you guys have a killer track record. We're just dying for more details. Aren't there any other crumbs of info you can release? About how big is the library going to be on disk?



lux @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> Guy have you ever heard Simon's stuff? Well you should, before talking about ignoring peoples opinions...



Regardless of who's making the comments, throwing out comparisons like "high school orchestra" probably isn't the best way to get your opinion considered as constructive criticism.



gregjazz @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> Speaking of which, you can also enable/disable each channel, loading and unloading them from memory.



That has been a great new feature in recent Kontakt libraries (and I'd love to see the CS guys do an update to HWW to add that instead of needing separate patches for the different mic positions). One other technical thing I'd love to see is (assuming the library ships with monolithic sample files) splitting up the nkx files by mic position (and by section as well would be even better) to give users the option of putting the mic positions you like best and use most on SSD and keeping the rest on regular HD.


----------



## dcoscina

I'm curious about the price point. There's been a trend of libs costing around $1000 and up these days but CS have always brought in their delightful products at a very reasonable price. Understandably, this project seems far more encompassing...

For what it's worth, I'm very interested in a library that I can just play without tweaking a million things to make it sound musical...no names.... :roll:


----------



## Mike Connelly

For comparison, the new Vienna brass is $745 and EW said HB would be cheaper than HS meaning either under $1499 or under $999 depending on which they were referring to. And CS's one big product Voxos is $999. From what the scope of the library seems to be, it seems likely to be somewhere in that range.


----------



## germancomponist

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Mike Connelly @ Mon Apr 25 said:


> germancomponist @ Sat Apr 23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, Cinesamples do produce a brass library on a bigger stage, what East West did some years ago in a hall. I remember so many people said: "Oh, the room information in their samples limit me...."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This library has multiple mic positions so there should be a good choice of closer mics or more hall (plus an additional hardware verb "mic position"). This demo is the full mix patch, so likely one of the wetter options. And I think it's extremely unlikely that the hall sound is anywhere close to the hall sound of EWQLSO, one was a big orchestral concert hall and the other a scoring stage.
Click to expand...


I never said that the hall sound is anywhere close to the hall sound from EWQLSO. 
I was talking about the principle of doing the lib. The EWQLSO also has multiple mic positions, and the dry mic position sounds not bad at all. I think many people have never heared the dry mic positions because the most people only bought EWQLSO Gold version.... .

Listen to my example here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjGVHuQaItg


----------



## Mike Connelly

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



germancomponist @ Mon Apr 25 said:


> I never said that the hall sound is anywhere close to the hall sound from EWQLSO. I was talking about the principle of doing the lib. The EWQLSO also has multiple mic positions, and the dry mic position sounds not bad at all. I think many people have never heared the dry mic positions because the most people only bought EWQLSO Gold version....



You said "a bigger stage, what East West did". I wouldn't compare the two at all, even the closest position of EWQLSO is fairly wet - it's definitely worth having for an owner of that library but a scoring stage isn't nearly as big and reverberant and there's a huge difference in sound with both the close and distant mics. With EWQLSO it was a great sound but even with the three mic positions if you needed something fairly dry it was a limitation. I haven't heard similar complaints with any library recorded on a scoring stage with multiple mic positions, even the farthest ones aren't that wet and the close mics tend to be pretty darn dry.


----------



## Ashermusic

I am open to the idea but personally I have yet to hear an example with a nearly totally "dry" library with reverb added after the fact that sounded any better to my ears than one with a library with some added ambience.

Horses for courses, of course.


----------



## Cinesamples

Right, the reason we chose this scoring stage was to get the multiple mic positions and maintain control (as Dennis Sands talks about in the video). Libraries like our Hollywoodwinds, and EW QLSO were recorded in large Chapels and Concert Hall, which don't offer you that precise control. The beauty of SONY is you get this great controlled sound, without a huge/messy tail, and maintaining enormous width and size.
You have to really hear it to get it... more demos coming!!
MP

PS. Nothing wrong with nice big tails in samples... just not for brass


----------



## José Herring

CineSamples @ Mon Apr 25 said:


> Right, the reason we chose this scoring stage was to get the multiple mic positions and maintain control (as Dennis Sands talks about in the video). Libraries like our Hollywoodwinds, and EW QLSO were recorded in large Chapels and Concert Hall, which don't offer you that precise control. The beauty of SONY is you get this great controlled sound, without a huge/messy tail, and maintaining enormous width and size.
> You have to really hear it to get it... more demos coming!!
> MP
> 
> PS. Nothing wrong with nice big tails in samples... just not for brass



It's a brilliant idea to record at Sony. I'm really looking forward to this release. I'm sooooo glad it's in Kontakt format.


----------



## Ashermusic

Well obviously, both Dennis Sands and Shawn Murphy know how to record an orchestra and make it sound great so I would totally expect any library they record to sound great within the parameters of its design intention.

Niether one of them would record anything in a way that could be objectively classified as "wrong", just "different."

So it is my expectation that both this library and Hollywood Brass will sound terrific but perhaps rather different. And I also expect that will be true of Audiobro's and Kirk Hunter's upcoming brass libraries, as has been the case with their strings.


----------



## stonzthro

Kontakt??? I thought this was for Unity-DS!


----------



## José Herring

stonzthro @ Mon Apr 25 said:


> Kontakt??? I thought this was for Unity-DS!



:mrgreen: 

Yeah I know, big disappointment. I was secretly hoping for a Halion or Mach 5 release. I guess we'll have to just settle for second best.


----------



## dcoscina

Actually, the new Halion Sonic player is very good. Very intuitive. Mach5 isn't bad either and ver3 looks to be very impressive. Truthfully, I only use Kontakt as a player but I do love its 64 bit and memory server options. It's da standard.


----------



## stonzthro

That's all great but I have this iMac (1st gen) sitting here with 64 MB RAM waiting for some new brass samples to load into Unity DS-1. 

C'mon - breathe me some life guys!


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Quick demo of the Solo Trumpet and Ensemble Trumpet True Legato.


----------



## marcotronic

Great! The Ensemble sounds awesome! 

Thanks.
Marco


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

sounding great mike!


----------



## antoniopandrade

the ensemble sounds killer. Oh please please please let there be divisi


----------



## noiseboyuk

Excellent! Several comments and questions...

First, fantastic to hear these patches in isolation. Polished demos always raise the excitement level, but here we're seeing and hearing exactly what's going on (in the case of Raiders, probably playing the same notes we'll all first play too!)

Second, the space here sounds terrific to me. The combination with the tone is exactly what you mean by "familiar", eh Mikes? That's the definite vibe I'm getting - sounds pure Hollywood.

Third, those legatos are sounding great, both on solo and ensemble. I'm guessing it's the case that the smaller intervals are smooth while the larger ones have the more pronounced effect? If so it's working really nicely, it's doing what I'd hope and expect to hear.

Fourth - and this might be the biggest of all - I'm loving the dynamic response. Really smooth transitions up and down the range. Will be great to hear in a future demo some fast crescendos, but the evidence is very encouraging. To combine both previous points - do the legato intervals have more than one velocity? Possibly the final p phrase has a little too much attack on the transitions for me, but it's quite marginal.

I'm guessing there may be a few more tuning comments, I'm sure tweeks as production evolves will come.

Fantastic work folks, keep 'em coming!


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Nice !

p.s. keep the price down so we can all purchase it !!


----------



## gregjazz

noiseboyuk @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> Third, those legatos are sounding great, both on solo and ensemble. I'm guessing it's the case that the smaller intervals are smooth while the larger ones have the more pronounced effect? If so it's working really nicely, it's doing what I'd hope and expect to hear.


Yes, the speed and other formative factors of the legato intervals are based on different variables, including the speed of your playing, the velocity of the MIDI notes, the dynamic level, and the distance of the interval. So the legato intervals are far from static.



noiseboyuk @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> Fourth - and this might be the biggest of all - I'm loving the dynamic response. Really smooth transitions up and down the range. Will be great to hear in a future demo some fast crescendos, but the evidence is very encouraging. To combine both previous points - do the legato intervals have more than one velocity? Possibly the final p phrase has a little too much attack on the transitions for me, but it's quite marginal.


The number of dynamics vary based on what is needed. For example, you'll have fewer dynamic levels in the very lowest and very highest ranges, and more in the center of the range, reflecting the natural dynamic capabilities of these instruments. And yes, that includes the legato interval samples. The number of round robins vary, depending on the note and the dynamic.

There's a LOT of scripting going on behind the library. In fact, I've pretty much disabled all the native handling elements in Kontakt (volume fades, round robin handling, etc.) to allow the scripting to handle all of that.


----------



## Windle

noiseboyuk @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> Excellent! Several comments and questions...
> 
> First, fantastic to hear these patches in isolation.



Agreed. Having things in isolation is both brave but very helpful for the potential customers.



noiseboyuk @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> Second, the space here sounds terrific to me. The combination with the tone is exactly what you mean by "familiar", eh Mikes? That's the definite vibe I'm getting - sounds pure Hollywood.



Yes, the space they sit in seems just right. It allows the sound to bloom. The tone is also very good, again.



noiseboyuk @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> Third, those legatos are sounding great, both on solo and ensemble. I'm guessing it's the case that the smaller intervals are smooth while the larger ones have the more pronounced effect?



Not so convinced here. They actually sound rather unnatural presented like that. The transitions are pretty obvious in most cases. Obviously in a mix much more will be covered but it's not as good (yet) as SM's The Trumpet.

A similar thing happened with LASS when everyone threw them in left, right and centre believing that's what real players do! Adding in one or two could be useful and appropriate in a phrase so it's great to have them but I'm hoping/sure there will be patches that have all the other controls but without the Legato. A useful exercise to have them demonstrated like this though.



noiseboyuk @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> I'm guessing there may be a few more tuning comments, I'm sure tweeks as production evolves will come.



I'm not sure what this comment means.
Are you saying there are tuning issues you can hear but don't want to comment on or are you saying people will comment on the tuning issues but what you hear is fine with you?



noiseboyuk @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> Fantastic work folks, keep 'em coming!


Yes, it does seem like they are working towards a very strong library.
Any comments I make that aren't gushing praise must be taken as constructive criticism with the intention of helping to make the library better. The more people speak up before a first release then the better chance a library has of hitting a home run out of the blocks. Better for developers, better for us. Simples.

W.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Once again Greg, looks like you're working wonders. I love all that stuff happening invisibly to our eyes... at the end of the day most us just want it to work! All sounds great so far and thanks for the feedback.


----------



## marcotronic

noiseboyuk @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> ... at the end of the day most us just want it to work!



+1! That´s THE factor!

That´s what I totally dislike with EW Hollywood Strings. For me it´s quite unusable with the different controllers in the different patches and how they work. It´s a real nightmare for me, really. LASS and several Cinesamples libraries showed me that it´s very well possible to give a composer a highly expressive tool that he can just use out of the box and start writing music without fiddling about 234675324 patches that may fit in this special context.

Totally looking forward to your brass lib!

Marco


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

If somebody mentioned tuning again, it may be in the last Trumpet ensemble demo. 3 (or 4?) Trumpets that play unison are of course never in unison down to the hertz. Thats what gives them the nice "wider" sound. The demo sounded right to me for the tuning!

As for the legato, I listened again and rather like it. I didn’t see anything special in a controller lane, but it sounded like for the large jump legatos, a little "over blowing" (reaching for the next overtone) was maybe simulated.

Rock on ! _-)


----------



## noiseboyuk

Windle @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> noiseboyuk @ Tue Apr 26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing there may be a few more tuning comments, I'm sure tweeks as production evolves will come.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what this comment means.
> Are you saying there are tuning issues you can hear but don't want to comment on or are you saying people will comment on the tuning issues but what you hear is fine with you?
Click to expand...


Just noticed this - just a general comment mainly on the earlier debate. This latest sounded perfectly fine and real to me, but others are more sensitive than I to small variations - just didn't want another round of "high school orchestra" comments!

I know what you mean about the legato. Reflecting on Greg's last though, it may well be that there are smaller options triggered from a gentler playing style - listen again to that video and you'll hear a lot of less-showy transitions in there for sure, though obviously it's the big ones that stand out on a first listen. Personally I think the backlash about LASS's portamento was way off, I find it invaluable and not a day goes by when I hear a film score of a real orchestra where I don't hear stacks of it (gee, listen to John Barry!). I'm really glad to hear these transitions in this library. Also I like Greg's scripting techniques - if it's like his guitar libraries it's right most of the time and I'd rather perhaps tweek the velocity of the odd note to trigger a different transition than muck around with other CCs or keyswitches. It's a really fast and musical way to work.

Totally agree with Macrotonic's post. Despite the great deals, i'm holding off HS. I'd rather sacrifice a small amount of control if it means having something expressive and playable that gets me 95% of the way there with ease.


----------



## Windle

noiseboyuk @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> Just noticed this - just a general comment mainly on the earlier debate. This latest sounded perfectly fine and real to me, but others are more sensitive than I to small variations - just didn't want another round of "high school orchestra" comments!



Yes, the "High School Orchestra" comment was unfortunate - something that in real life probably comes over with the necessary inflection but on a forum..... yikes!

For me the tuning was better than the Indiana Jones example - an ensemble of trumpets always sounds bigger by each trumpet beinò ‹   yH ‹   y© ‹   y É ‹   yY ‹   yÖÃ ‹   yÖÛ ‹   z° ‹   zü ‹   z ½ ‹   z  ‹   z¦q ‹   z¦ ‹   z÷? ‹   z


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Yea from the video it looked like pure CC1 with a bit of CC11 tweaking some of the entry/exits


----------



## windshore

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

I have to agree that the portamentos in this particular demo are a bit overdone. There are 2 or 3 near the beginning esp. that are not natural sounding. I'm sure this can all be tweaked however. Part of the issue is that the demo has some unnaturally long phrases IMO. That cuts down on believability. (It seems the downward portamentos are something I would generally avoid or at least minimize.)

Love the sound overall. I know most of the players and am excited that Cinesamples did it right... through the union, at such an amazing studio. I'm sure I'll be among the first to order!


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Sounds very good  I agree that the portamentos are overdone (too loud) in some places, but it sounds very promising


----------



## Cinesamples

I hope you guys appreciate the naked, single instrument demos. I dont think many other developers take risk to do this 

Keep the honest notes and feedback coming. We take seriously the feedback here on vi.


----------



## artinro

CineSamples @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> I hope you guys appreciate the naked, single instrument demos. I dont think many other developers take risk to do this
> 
> Keep the honest notes and feedback coming. We take seriously the feedback here on vi.



Absolutely appreciate the naked demos guys...truly. Please keep them coming and give us some more information about the specs and schedule of the library.

Looking forward to this release tremendously.

Cheers!


----------



## Ashermusic

CineSamples @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> I hope you guys appreciate the naked, single instrument demos. I dont think many other developers take risk to do this
> 
> Keep the honest notes and feedback coming. We take seriously the feedback here on vi.



Personally, I certainly do.


----------



## Hicks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Great,
the trumpet sound is very nice and warm.
Legato sounds cool too, excepted maybe on some notes where it is too pronounced (I hope it will not create tons of mock up with the lass effect!! I mean people wanted to put portamenti everywhere and it was sounding so much unrealistic. I remember one cineorch official demo with lass layered over it and portamenti on nearly every notes, it sounded so fake!!).

I do love the sound of the solo trumpet and I like the fact we hear some difference of tuning on the ensemble to create the sound. However the last G is sounding really too much out of tune! It's terrible (yes gain one guy speaking about tuning issue, but this G is unusuable).

I am pretty sure the tuning issues will be solved and I really trust cinebrass!.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Hicks @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> I remember one cineorch official demo with lass layered over it and portamenti on nearly every notes, it sounded so fake!!



Ah yes, Piz Gloria - that'll be mine! (well, hardly every note, but there were a lot). I remember when originally posting that I put a disclaimer on that cos I know some don't like it. Of course you're entitled to think it sounds fake - I personally think there's been a huge over-reaction AGAINST portamento and ornaments on these boards, and a rather bizarre conservatism has set it. That particular cue was a deliberate attempt to do that John Barry thing which uses portamento by the bucketload - personally I adore it. Perhaps people have forgotten that style?! It would be great to be able to go back further into 40s-60s territory which uses it a lot too.

I can feel the conservative consensus building here to dial back those features which I really love. Of course it can go OTT - it depends on the style you're going for. But I definitely like the option of it being there. The quality isn't great on this link, but take a listen to Horner's Apollo 13 theme (first more recent one that came to mind) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nNxpwPMjro - from around 1'50 there's a lot of ornament in the brass, some in the strings too. 

Keep at it, Mikes and Greg! Don't make it all flat!!!


----------



## Hicks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Hi Noiseboyuk,

I went to Cinesamples website and yes it is yours. Sorry, i didn't mean to offence anyone here.

o-[][]-o


----------



## windshore

Mike Connelly @ 4/26/2011 said:


> People have to keep in mind that slurs on a brass instrument are going to get a bit less smooth as the intervals get larger and as the instrument reaches the highest or lowest parts of the range. There's no "portamento" per se that a player intentionally does more or less of, just the consequence of having to jump intervals just using the lips. And it's going to vary on different intervals based on whether the valves change on the jump or not. If you want to have a brass player go up a seventh without any "portamento" then you probably don't want legato.



Well said. A good player will avoid anything resembling a gliss or "portamento" between notes unless it's a special effect. In playing legato there will be some hint of it in the transition between notes but the player is generally not trying to achieve anything other than a smooth transition between notes.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Hicks @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> Hi Noiseboyuk,
> 
> I went to Cinesamples website and yes it is yours. Sorry, i didn't mean to offence anyone here.
> 
> o-[][]-o



Not at all - it's an honest opinion! I might go on a trawl for other more recent examples of more recent uses of string portamento and brass ornaments though...


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Rob Elliott @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> 1. What controllers did it take on this latest demo?
> 2. Can you share any special mixing work that was required to get this sound?
> 
> 
> 
> Basically - I am looking for time it takes to produce this. Thanks again guys for your work here.



1. Just MOD CC#1 and some Volume CC#7
2. No mixing, just the direct output from Kontakt. Using the "FULL MIX" samples.


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



CineSamples @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> Rob Elliott @ Tue Apr 26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What controllers did it take on this latest demo?
> 2. Can you share any special mixing work that was required to get this sound?
> 
> 
> 
> Basically - I am looking for time it takes to produce this. Thanks again guys for your work here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Just MOD CC#1 and some Volume CC#7
> 2. No mixing, just the direct output from Kontakt. Using the "FULL MIX" samples.
Click to expand...



Very impressive. Congrats!


----------



## RMWSound

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

I agree with those saying that the transitions (especially in the lower dynamic range) are a bit too loud. Otherwise, I think these sound fantastic. Cinesamples will undoubtedly have my money once this bad boy is released!

-RMW


----------



## guydoingmusic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

I'm sure at some point someone will credit the divorce rate rise, in v.i. members, to "The Year of Brass Libraries"

Having said that... I know how much the divorce attorney will cost. But, what about this great sounding piece of work?

/brad


----------



## Cinesamples

Guys, already tweaking the transitions because of your feedback... getting MUCH smoother now...
Kontakt is just awesome (and so is Greg S)...
Will post more demos in a bit.

Thanks, 
Mike


----------



## germancomponist

CineSamples @ Wed Apr 27 said:


> Kontakt is just awesome....



+1


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



CineSamples @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> 2. No mixing, just the direct output from Kontakt. Using the "FULL MIX" samples.



Hey, that's interesting - so there's 3 mics and the Bricasti, but you've also done a pass that's a good mix of all 4? Or a mix of the three main positions without the Bricasti?


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Thanks for the notes guys. It's coming along really well. I cannotò ‰   À¥F ‰   À¥j ‰   ÀÀu ‰   ÀÀª ‰   ÀÓ ‰   ÀÔ
 ‰   Àý ‰   Àý, ‰   Á¡ ‰   Á¶ ‰   Áé ‰   Á ‰   Á$Q ‰   Á(Š ‰   Á(£ ‰   Á:| ‰   Á:Ó ‰   Á:ï ‰   Á;	 ‰   Á<ñ ‰   Á= ‰   Á? ‰   Á?I ‰   ÁCu ‰   ÁC‹ ‰   ÁHŒ ‰   ÁHß ‰   ÁS† ‰   Ás8 ‰   Ás^ ‰   Ásk ‰   Ásx ‰   Áv‘ ‰   Áv¸ ‰   ÁxZ ‰   Áx‚ ‰   Á›X ‰   Á›b ‰   Áœë ‰   Áœý ‰   Á|


----------



## FireGS

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

If CineBrass can pull off the following:



That opening, and at 1:18, as well as the ensemble at 1:38. Oh my lordy-lord.


----------



## Christian Marcussen

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Indeed. One of my favorite brass tests.

Great writing.


----------



## dannthr

Also a brilliantly mixed OST!


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

You guys might consider an add-on down the line with all the jazzy articulations for Trumpet and Trombone! o-[][]-o


----------



## windshore

I don't know if anyone asked already, but I sure hope there are a couple of mute options...


----------



## Mike Connelly

A full set of jazz articulations would probably be a stretch for this kind of library but I'd love to see at least falls included (long and short).


----------



## mducharme

The second-last note in that legato demo is *very* out of tune, it starts off close but then falls about a quarter tone flat. I do not mind slightly out of tune here or there but that note is very off.

I agree with the others that this sounds really good but the legato transitions seem louder than they should be, particularly for the quiet notes. It is like there is a sudden jump in dynamic from piano to mezzo forte and sudden return to piano.


----------



## Justus

CineSamples @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> Guys, already tweaking the transitions because of your feedback... getting MUCH smoother now...
> Kontakt is just awesome (and so is Greg S)...
> Will post more demos in a bit.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike


----------



## mducharme

Oh, thanks, I didn't see that post for some reason. That doesn't mention the tuning, hopefully they are working on that too.


----------



## dcoscina

I want this library, that's all I can say.


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Sneak peak at the interface. Design and Scripting by Greg Schlaepfer.

http://forum.cinesamples.com/download/file.php?id=22


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



CineSamples @ Mon May 02 said:


> Sneak peak at the interface. Design and Scripting by Greg Schlaepfer.
> 
> http://forum.cinesamples.com/download/file.php?id=22




Can't wait to see your youtube vids working in and around this interface. Looks very good - easy (fast) navigation.


----------



## germancomponist

I can`t wit for new demos. Horns please


----------



## Sforzando

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



CineSamples @ Mon May 02 said:


> Sneak peak at the interface. Design and Scripting by Greg Schlaepfer.
> 
> http://forum.cinesamples.com/download/file.php?id=22


I swear, you guys have the best interface designs.


----------



## Jack Weaver

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

The legato horns only go to concert C#?

Do any other horn articulations go any higher?

.
edit: or perhaps that's not the horns that we see highlighted and selected on the keyboard on the GUI graphic.


----------



## gregjazz

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Jack Weaver @ Mon May 02 said:


> The legato horns only go to concert C#?
> 
> Do any other horn articulations go any higher?
> .



Oh, no--the key range in that screenshot is not for the legato horns. Don't worry, they go higher than that.


----------



## Jack Weaver

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Good stuff.

Thanks Greg.

.


----------



## Mike Connelly

My guess would be the note range shown is for 3 Tpt (or 3 bones, or for a fourth patch that's offscreen...)? That would be a really weird range for horns but the bottom note fits for C trumpet.


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

we recorded the full range of the horn including those often neglected notes below the treble staff.


----------



## artinro

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Looks great Mike and Mike. Nice looking interface and it appears to be very user friendly as well.

Any more information (specs, articulations, release schedule) you can provide at this point?

Looking forward to what will, I'm sure, be a wonderful library!


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



gregjazz @ Mon May 02 said:


> Jack Weaver @ Mon May 02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The legato horns only go to concert C#?
> 
> Do any other horn articulations go any higher?
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, no--the key range in that screenshot is not for the legato horns. Don't worry, they go higher than that.
Click to expand...


Ha... even if it was only that, it's still higher than some other famous library's horn legatos!

Looks great. The Trombone artics window is the most interesting - I see that there's going to be a lot of options as to how we control things. Wonder if you can clarify those short articulations a little more as I'm still getting my head round it. I see "shorts on high velocity" - a la CineOrch, fine - but then (and I know it's only an example) but three different short lengths, including 1/8 at low velocity? Also, based on your first demos, is there a range of attacks in the sustains (indeed does that relate to this window?) I know it's just a teaser, but so many questions!


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Hey that GUI look serious, like you guys know what you’re doing, and like something I want to make music with! o-[][]-o


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Yeah, full horns range. See attached pic. From low C below Bass clef to top line F in treble. Total 3.5 octaves...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5828471/horns_range.png


----------



## Cinesamples

mducharme @ Thu Apr 28 said:


> Oh, thanks, I didn't see that post for some reason. That doesn't mention the tuning, hopefully they are working on that too.



Yup! Tuning everything.  o=<


----------



## rgames

CineSamples @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> Guys, already tweaking the transitions because of your feedback... getting MUCH smoother now...
> Kontakt is just awesome (and so is Greg S)...
> Will post more demos in a bit.



Good! Sound is great but transitions were definitely too pronounced.

rgames


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

(WILL REPOST VIDEO IN A BIT... NEED TO MAKE A FIX)

Okay folks, here's something to watch while we prepare the big screencast video. We conducted an interview with Dennis Sands, our scoring mixer for this brass project. It was such a privilege and honor to have him be apart of this. He had a hand in most of our favorite scores growing up...

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0762304/

Here's a great quote from the interview:
"The single most important advice I could give anyone dealing with samples is to get the best sounding library you can. The issue with samples is 'how is it recorded?' The good samples are the ones that are recorded well, and offer flexibility." -Dennis Sands


----------



## Justus

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



CineSamples @ Tue May 03 said:


> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0762304/



Back to the Future =o


----------



## dannthr

What's with the Tangled underscore?


----------



## dinerdog

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

I know Dennis has TONS of great scores (all great - this is not a debate), but for a very long time I only used "Back To The Future" as my mixing ref for an orchestral score. For me personally, it was always the gold standard of sound. It was like a rock guy mixing an orchestra.


----------



## Kevin Kliesch

dannthr @ Tue May 03 said:


> What's with the Tangled underscore?



Dennis didn't record or mix Tangled. Frank Wolf did.


----------



## Ed

I have to say I love how you're basically making a "_making of_" documentary on a sample library, I wish more sample devs do this for big products.


----------



## Kevin Kliesch

bwherry @ Tue May 03 said:


> Was Tangled recorded at Sony, maybe? Kevin just _might_ know the answer to that. :wink:
> 
> Brian



No, we did the whole thing at Warner Bros.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Great video - but 4'30 is an excellent example of the problem of dialogue competing with a busy orchestral section!

Everything's looking terrific, keep the tidbits coming!


----------



## dannthr

I wasn't trying to make a big deal out of it, just curious, I loved the Tangled Soundtrack (bought it practically the instant I returned home from the theaters) and so I recognized the cue immediately.

I was just wondering if there was some connection.


----------



## Pedro Camacho

So CineBrass is ensemble only?


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Good question, Pedro. I really hope it has a solo trumpet too. Chords with ensemble trumpets usually don't work too well.


----------



## Hannesdm

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHW4SYJrmpg

The first half of this video is solo trumpet, so I guess there will definitely be solo instruments in this library.


----------



## Marko Zirkovich

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Here's an exciting excerpt/quote from the CineSamples FB page:

ò ²   l1 ²   l1Ë ²   l2 ²   l4[ ²   l4¦ ²   lMë ²   lN ²   lQñ ²   lR ²   lT: ²   lT­ ²   l{w ²   l{° ²   l}s ²   l~ ²   l


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Ah yes, sorry - of course it has solo trumpet then I just hope they didn't make it just for lyrical stuff but also full on ff(f) recordings without vibrato etc.


----------



## Cinesamples

Okay, here's the Dennis Sands interview back online, scored with some of the soundtracks he worked on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H96-pK_9OJY

Although I DO love the Tangled score...


----------



## dogforester

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

When are you showing your horn?(clothes optional) :D


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



dogforester @ Wed May 04 said:


> When are you showing your horn?(clothes optional) :D



:lol: o-[][]-o 

Marco


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



dogforester @ Wed May 04 said:


> When are you showing your horn?(clothes optional) :D



According to the Facebook page, this week. And even more arousing to many is that they are currently "smoothing out transitions, and tuning everything note by note". Oh, and also saw that Tuba and Cimbasso are part of the library.

Seriously? A price "close" to CineOrch?


----------



## Hannes_F

CineSamples @ Wed May 04 said:


> Okay, here's the Dennis Sands interview back online, scored with some of the soundtracks he worked on.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H96-pK_9OJY
> 
> Although I DO love the Tangled score...



Note how he emphasizes the very limited contribution of close mics.


----------



## Windle

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



noiseboyuk @ Thu May 05 said:


> And even more arousing to many is that they are currently "smoothing out transitions, and tuning everything note by note".



This is very good news. They've obviously taken in the comments made on this and other recent threads about the importance of good tuning. Very much looking forward to this library.

I know they are teasing a bit with price details but I hope people don't expect a rock bottom price. Libraries like this are a big investment for developers and we should respect that they have to make a living doing this.

W.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Windle @ Thu May 05 said:


> Libraries like this are a big investment for developers and we should respect that they have to make a living doing this.



Well indeed, but it's the age old conundrum of high price / low sales volume vs low price / high sales volume though, isn't it. In the download age, there's also very little material cost per-product which might otherwise be a factor. I take it by their comments that they're choosing the latter business model in this particular case to get as broad an audience as possible. In the end its not really for us to make judgements on whether a unit price is too high or too low - only they can know the economics of their own lib.

By saying "close" to Cineorch I'm now guessing some mid-point between Voxos and Cineorch, which for this particular lib should be a steal.


----------



## Mike Connelly

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



noiseboyuk @ Thu May 05 said:


> By saying "close" to Cineorch I'm now guessing some mid-point between Voxos and Cineorch, which for this particular lib should be a steal.



Exactly what I was thinking. Voxos is $999 and I'm sure they'd sell a decent number of the brass library at that price, but something in the range of $699 (or less) would probably be getting into the no brainer range for many working composers. I'm sure Cineorch was a great way for them to test the waters in terms of "so cheap that everyone will buy it".


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Mike Connelly @ Thu May 05 said:


> ... in the range of $699 (or less) ...



"or less", please!  

Marco


----------



## Pedro Camacho

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



Simon Ravn @ Wed May 04 said:


> Ah yes, sorry - of course it has solo trumpet then I just hope they didn't make it just for lyrical stuff but also full on ff(f) recordings without vibrato etc.



Simon, you read my mind!


----------



## Mike Connelly

Considering the very first library demo was Raiders, I doubt they'd make any of the instruments lyrical only.


----------



## Maximvs

CineSamples @ Wed May 04 said:


> Okay, here's the Dennis Sands interview back online, scored with some of the soundtracks he worked on.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H96-pK_9OJY
> 
> Although I DO love the Tangled score...



Very interesting video with Dennis Sands, I was wondering which cue has been used at 6:21 and who composed it. Thanks!


----------



## Windle

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



noiseboyuk @ Thu May 05 said:


> Well indeed, but it's the age old conundrum of high price / low sales volume vs low price / high sales volume though, isn't it. In the download age, there's also very little material cost per-product which might otherwise be a factor. I take it by their comments that they're choosing the latter business model in this particular case to get as broad an audience as possible.



I agree that's where they are implying it's going to be for the reasons you state.

My point is that we live in an age where people expect everything for nearly nothing (or actually nothing for those who pirate) and then whinge when they don't get the LSO for $99!

Only the distribution costs have been greatly reduced recently. Musicians, copyists, studios, engineers, editing, web programming, scripting, design, etc. etc. still costs a pretty penny.

If they didn't think they could turn a profit then they wouldn't do it - and good luck to them - but I hope the implications of a no-brainer price doesn't make for harsh criticisms when they announce something significantly more than $99.

My wallet is already beginning to twitch on this one...... :wink: 

W.


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Sorry it aint gonna be 99$  o=? o-[][]-o


----------



## Mike Connelly

For another reference, Hollywoodwinds is $299 (and worth every penny). I would assume CB wouldn't even that cheap, somewhere between HWW and Voxos. But that's total speculation on my part.


----------



## Polarity

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

The price? 
I fear it will be an iron bat on teeth... :wink:


----------



## Cinesamples

Massimo @ Thu May 05 said:


> CineSamples @ Wed May 04 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, here's the Dennis Sands interview back online, scored with some of the soundtracks he worked on.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H96-pK_9OJY
> 
> Although I DO love the Tangled score...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting video with Dennis Sands, I was wondering which cue has been used at 6:21 and who composed it. Thanks!
Click to expand...


That's from Forrest Gump - Alan Silvestri. Which Dennis mixed.


----------



## eschroder

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

So wheres the horn demo??? :D :D :D


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Horn Demo!


----------



## eschroder

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Yes, its true... I love you more than anything! So stoked!


----------



## Stevie

Woah, completely blown away


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

ok, now this is just making me more impatient. sounds outstanding _-)


----------



## bwherry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Sounds freakin' awesome!!

Question: will the different articulations be available in separate patches? Having a "<brass instrument> Articulations" patch might be nice for some people but I know I would prefer different patches for each of the short articulations, so I can switch among them using program changes inside Kontakt instrument banks. (and MIDI note velocity controlling the sample selection/volume instead of the mod wheel for the shorts, in case that doesn't go without saying) Or if I can put a few different instances of the "<brass instrument> Articulations" patch within an instrument bank, and have each one "stick" to just one articulation, that would be fine too (assuming there's also a way to get velocity-to-control-velocity as well).

Thanks!

Brian


----------



## Hannesdm

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Man, when you played that poly legato on the solo horn I was cheering so loud! o-[][]-o 

I hope this baby gets released asap!

Great work guys! 8)


----------



## Ed

Ok I;m 1 min through and had to stop it and say wow. It sounds like its got as good legato as Symphobioa yet obviously deeper sampled and poly legato? awesome guys.... I was waiting for Hollywood Brass but this is great and probably easier to work with


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



bwherry @ Fri May 06 said:


> Sounds freakin' awesome!!
> 
> Question: will the different articulations be available in separate patches? Having a "<brass instrument> Articulations" patch might be nice for some people but I know I would prefer different patches for each of the short articulations, so I can switch among them using program changes inside Kontakt instrument banks. (and MIDI note velocity controlling the sample selection/volume instead of the mod wheel for the shorts, in case that doesn't go without saying) Or if I can put a few different instances of the "<brass instrument> Articulations" patch within an instrument bank, and have each one "stick" to just one articulation, that would be fine too (assuming there's also a way to get velocity-to-control-velocity as well).
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Brian



I'll go on to explain this more, but all the mapping is editable. So you can do that kind of thing yourself if you wish. We decided to just offer 5 quick presets of the most intuitive mappings, and then offer a "custom map..." grid for the bwherry's of the world. 
So you can create those separate patches easily, and just save.


----------



## Jack Weaver

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Sounds very good - lively even. Seems like a 'must-have'.

The horns do however seem to have that same issue that the trumpets did before you changed them - the overly loud transitions. 

Any chance in changing these also?

Great job guys!

.


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



rgames @ Sat May 07 said:


> Horns sound great - I also think the transitions are still a bit too loud. Seemed like it was OK on the section horns but noticeable on the solo.
> 
> How about adding a knob/slider to modify the transition volume? Is that possible?
> 
> rgames



Yeah I was thinking that a way to control the the transitions would be great, maybe even using a system similar to LASS, where note velocity triggered a more noticeable transition (portamento). Probably too much to ask for though I Imagine


----------



## gregjazz

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*



rgames @ Fri May 06 said:


> How about adding a knob/slider to modify the transition volume? Is that possible?


I'm actually manually tweaking the transition volumes of every single sample right now.


----------



## ozmorphasis

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

Fantastic work! This is exciting!

Yup, the transitions on the solo are not natural in their current state. Your Star Wars posting is case in point. The player is clearly working overtime to mask that very idiomatic characteristic, whereas your teaser sounds like a great horn player actually emphasizing that aspect.

The tone is so nice, it would be great to not succumb to allowing too much of the "searching" in the name of realism. As Jose said, players try to get rid of that...and the good ones pretty much get rid of it altogether.

Again, this is a really exciting development. Hats off!

O


----------



## adg21

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

This sounds like a beauty!
Looks really nice too.
I wanted to hear the 8ths doing fast-ish repetitions on a note, but frankly I'm just blown away by the tone


----------



## james7275

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First teaser added)*

The legato sounds sweet...love it. I too was waiting for Hollywood Brass, but if this thing comes out in the next couple of weeks and is reasonably priced, I think i might go for it. o=<


----------



## Cinesamples

FYI, a great feature of the transitions, which I didn't point out in the video, is that the transition speed is controlled by velocity.
If you play with low velocity, you get the emphasized transition, if you play with high velocity, you get a quicker transition.
Also, another thing that varies the transition speed is the actual SPEED of the playing. If you play some fast passages, the script alters the transitions to be less dramatic.
I'll make a demo of this...


----------



## Cinesamples

Without going into too much explanation: The script basically adds together the elements of playing speed, velocity, dynamic and interval, then establishes the legato speed from those combined values.

So you do currently have control depending on how you play.


----------



## artinro

CineSamples @ Fri May 06 said:


> Without going into too much explanation: The script basically adds together the elements of playing speed, velocity, dynamic and interval, then establishes the legato speed from those combined values.
> 
> So you do currently have control depending on how you play.



Sounds like a great script and excellent idea! So, how far off is the library from release gents?


----------



## vrocko

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

The velocity map + sustain pedal for legato is a great approach. Add that to the sound that you guys have achieved, WOW...very impressive. Can't wait.


----------



## gregjazz

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*



vrocko @ Fri May 06 said:


> The velocity map + sustain pedal for legato is a great approach. Add that to the sound that you guys have achieved, WOW...very impressive. Can't wait.



And that's all completely configurable, too. So for power users, it's pretty easy to adjust it to suit whichever performance or sequencing style you prefer. And the included presets are really handy as an instantly-playable mapping OR as a starting point for your own customizations.


----------



## tripit

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

Sounds great. Good on tweaking the transitions - I thought they stood out a bit as well. I was also waiting for HB, but I so dislike working with PLAY. Bring it on!


----------



## José Herring

CineSamples @ Fri May 06 said:


> Without going into too much explanation: The script basically adds together the elements of playing speed, velocity, dynamic and interval, then establishes the legato speed from those combined values.
> 
> So you do currently have control depending on how you play.



That's all very clever. But please remember the transitions should not really be noticeable. A player would work hard to draw as much attention away from them as possible. I have a feeling that sample developers do the opposite. They want to push transition samples as kind of a selling point. It would make me so happy if the selling point was " look our transition samples are so expertly done that they are hardly noticed at all, leaving you with smooth connected lines". I'm on my knees begging you to take this approach.


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

josejherring:



> FYI, a great feature of the transitions, which I didn't point out in the video, is that the transition speed is controlled by velocity.
> If you play with low velocity, you get the emphasized transition, if you play with high velocity, you get a quicker transition.



did you read that? there were a some nice smooth transitions in that video, and I assume he was playing harder to get them. having the option is nice.


----------



## marcotronic

Wow! This really sounds HUGE! I actually got goose flesh when I listened to the horn section, especially the poly legato.

Really hope you guys get it ready for a June release! (mentioned on youtube).

Marco


----------



## José Herring

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*



robibla @ Fri May 06 said:


> josejherring:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, a great feature of the transitions, which I didn't point out in the video, is that the transition speed is controlled by velocity.
> If you play with low velocity, you get the emphasized transition, if you play with high velocity, you get a quicker transition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> did you read that? there were a some nice smooth transitions in that video, and I assume he was playing harder to get them. having the option is nice.
Click to expand...


Oh, didn't quite get that fully. I thought it meant that when playing higher velocity you also get a louder sound overall. I'm so '90's in my way of thinking sometimes.

I'm very excited about this library.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Wowowowowow

First thing - those dynamics. That is FANTASTIC. That's what I'm most excited about... there were those who said it couldn't be done and they were wrong, wrong, wrong! It's where all my current libraries fall down. So we've finally got a really playable horn section where we can sculpt all our crescendos and swells in real time without it suddenly sounding like a Jupiter 8. FANTASTIC!

I've bleated on before about how I love the human touch in a library. I don't like the ultra-conservatism that says all imperfections are wrong. Perhaps all the string players on my favourite scores went home and hung their heads in shame when they used portamento, but I love it because they did etc. Now, all that said I'm glad there's still a bit of tweeking going on with the levels here on the solo horn - it's not the seeking the note so much (which I'm thrilled to have as an option, the programming sounds outstanding) but I do hear this kind of bump going in an out them, which sounds like it could be a level thing becoming more pronounced. Speaking of the solo horn, what sort of dynamics does this have?

All round the programming sounds tremendous, excellent work from Greg. The tone and space sounds equally tremendous. If I had one more wish (knowing the rips care coming!) I'd love to be able to do the double-tonging thing - can CineBrass pull that off too?


----------



## gregjazz

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*



josejherring @ Fri May 06 said:


> Oh, didn't quite get that fully. I thought it meant that when playing higher velocity you also get a louder sound overall. I'm so '90's in my way of thinking sometimes.
> 
> I'm very excited about this library.



The patches used in the video were before fine-tuning to legato intervals. Basically, right now I'm going through each legato sample and setting just the right volume / attack offset values manually.

Of course, there are certain intervals that will naturally stand out more, for example wide intervals in the french horns in the low range will naturally be more prominent than others (in a tasteful, subtle way, of course). My wife plays french horn, so I pass everything by her first. 

It's sounding really smooth so far, and there's a lot of scripting going on under the hood to insure that. Of course, as Dennis Sands said in the interview, it really comes down to the sound source. The richness of the tone in the different instruments is out of this world, and that's a big part of what makes the sample library so inspiring to play.


----------



## gregjazz

noiseboyuk @ Fri May 06 said:


> First thing - those dynamics. That is FANTASTIC. That's what I'm most excited about... there were those who said it couldn't be done and they were wrong, wrong, wrong! It's where all my current libraries fall down. So we've finally got a really playable horn section where we can sculpt all our crescendos and swells in real time without it suddenly sounding like a Jupiter 8. FANTASTIC!


Speaking of which, I'm not sure if this feature was already mentioned or not... but one of the great things with the morphing dynamics is that if you go from a loud dynamic to a soft dynamic (for example, in a sforzando) during a note, you'll actually get the residual reverb from the loud dynamic, making fades even more realistic. And that's not some fake reverb trick, it's using actual samples combined with scripting.



noiseboyuk @ Fri May 06 said:


> I've bleated on before about how I love the human touch in a library. I don't like the ultra-conservatism that says all imperfections are wrong.


Absolutely. If you approach sampling from a very clinical perspective, sampling everything as flawless as possible, it generally ends up sounding lifeless. It's like taking your MIDI project and applying a hard 16th note quantize on everything--sure it ends up being rhythmically perfect, but that hardly matters compared to everything else you lose...


----------



## robibla

gregjazz @ Sat May 07 said:


> one of the great things with the morphing dynamics is that if you go from a loud dynamic to a soft dynamic (for example, in a sforzando) during a note, you'll actually get the residual reverb from the loud dynamic, making fades even more realistic. And that's not some fake reverb trick, it's using actual samples combined with scripting.
> .



Now THAT i'm excited about  the thing that annoys me the most about my current library!


----------



## Hannesdm

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

Does the sustain from the articulation patch have legato?
If not, wlll there be some kind of 'master patch'?

How many notes can you play simultaneous with the poly legato?


----------



## noiseboyuk

robibla @ Sat May 07 said:


> gregjazz @ Sat May 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> one of the great things with the morphing dynamics is that if you go from a loud dynamic to a soft dynamic (for example, in a sforzando) during a note, you'll actually get the residual reverb from the loud dynamic, making fades even more realistic. And that's not some fake reverb trick, it's using actual samples combined with scripting.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now THAT i'm excited about
Click to expand...


Whoa yeah! That's something completely new AFAIK. You're a genius, Greg! I can hear how that'll work in my head, and what a difference it'll make. Really exciting stuff, it goes to the heart of what's great about Cinesamples and OTS, keeping it simple and playable but sounding incredible. There's a pseudo-masochistic school of thought out there that nothing will sound good without huge amounts of effort tweeking it all and putting in what I think of as engineering effort. Screw that, I just wanna play!

I love that you're just bundling a few patches, but making them user-configurable. When I read the other day that a certain string library now has 3,000 patches... it's insane. Something has gone seriously conceptually wrong there.

CAN'T WAIT!


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*



Hannesdm @ Fri May 06 said:


> Does the sustain from the articulation patch have legato?
> If not, wlll there be some kind of 'master patch'?
> 
> How many notes can you play simultaneous with the poly legato?



Yup! We are working on a master patch which is a hybrid of the Articulations and True Legato patches. 

The poly legato can play up to 8 notes simultaneously. I would stick to 3 or 4 max for best musical results.


----------



## Dave Connor

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

Sounds fantastic!


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

Though not released yet - this is already "Product of the Year 2011" !

So, how are the recordings going for Cine*WINDS* so far??? o=? Wanna have that, too!!!! :mrgreen: 

Marco


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*



marcotronic @ Sat May 07 said:


> o, how are the recordings going for Cine*WINDS* so far??? o=? Wanna have that, too!!!! :mrgreen:



Well... http://cinesamples.com/products/hollywoodwinds/

(I know what you mean though!)


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*



noiseboyuk @ Sat May 07 said:


> marcotronic @ Sat May 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> o, how are the recordings going for Cine*WINDS* so far??? o=? Wanna have that, too!!!! :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well... http://cinesamples.com/products/hollywoodwinds/
> 
> (I know what you mean though!)
Click to expand...


Of course I know that (and actually already bought this one, too a couple of weeks ago)

You know I´m speaking about something comparable to CineBrass in terms of single instruments and the whole stuff etc... 

Marco


----------



## Windle

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

This is looking and sounding like it's going to be a really great product.

Using the top musicians and making sure they are taken care of is very important. Without these wonderful players we don't get the amazing tools to work with.

And the fact that the developers are on here encouraging feedback on the project as it gets worked into shape not only will help them produce a better 1.0 product but establish a useful customer base.

How we feel about the transitions/the intonation/the thousands of patches (no, thanks!) all matters.

That's why I'm keen to stress that this can't be a cheap sample library. Great value - almost certainly but not cheap.

Keep up the good work.

Wallet twitching even more.....

W.


----------



## Gerd Kaeding

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*



mikebarry @ Sat May 07 said:


> There are a few things that really make me proud about this library - not having to do with the musicality.
> 
> Everything that we did was supported by the appropriate authorities, and rest assured this is the most expensive way to go. Our stage hands were provided by IATSE. Our players were provided by the American Federation of Musicians, and Local 47. They got their pension contributions, their health and welfare, union wages, union copyists etc.. This is actually pretty groundbreaking, nothing about this library was dark or illegal or anything like that. We just wouldn't have done the session in town if that was the case.
> 
> So, everything was official - handled by legal teams of both parties (you should have seen our legal fees for this!! OUCH!). We went out of our way to take care of our team. When you buy this product they will be taken care of also. We have a symbiotic relationship with them.



Great !!! o=<


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

Listened to the horn demos. Nice work! You didn’t mention anything about stopped, blared, or mute stuff though... :cry:


----------



## reddognoyz

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

Holy Cow

This sounds so good that I was going to just shut up and let the Mikes do their thing, but seeing the comments here regarding the legato transitions I feel compelled to chime in. 

I agree that the searching effect is what we all want to hear in the horns, but it feels "featured" in the horn examples in the teaser. Much the same as it did in the trumpet demo. It jumps out, and maybe feels like the transition is too fast and at a slightly higher dynamic than the notes after or preceding it. 

The Stars Wars horn example feels more organic(duh) and the transitions seem subtler. 

I'm offering my humble criticism because this sounds fantastic already, I am so getting CineBrass. I hope I can help you guys can get this dialed in, and I am only adding my two cents because I personally know the value of "fresh ears".

Keep cranking on this and release what sounds best to you! _-) _-) _-)


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

Maybe you guys could consider doing a special: group pre-order introductory offer via this forum? The higher the number of buyers, the more the discount !! o-[][]-o


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*



jamwerks @ Sat May 07 said:


> Maybe you guys could consider doing a special: group pre-order introductory offer via this forum? The higher the number of buyers, the more the discount !! o-[][]-o




Good idea.

Not sure what I was expecting on the solo horn but gratefully the demo exceeded it - poly legato simply was stunning.


----------



## Jem7

Great horns demo! We want more  What about trombones next?

Does CineBrass gonna have Cimbasso?


----------



## noiseboyuk

Jem7 @ Sat May 07 said:


> Great horns demo! We want more  What about trombones next?
> 
> Does CineBrass gonna have Cimbasso?



Yes, and Tuba too apparently (they said so on their FB page).


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*



jamwerks @ Sat May 07 said:


> Maybe you guys could consider doing a special: group pre-order introductory offer via this forum? The higher the number of buyers, the more the discount !! o-[][]-o



Count me in for that! o=< 

Marco


----------



## Stevie

*whistle* price tag *whistle*


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

Very impressive legato on those horns! Looking forward to the final product


----------



## windshore

Loving it so far. I asked before, and maybe I missed it somewhere in the 10 pages but what about 

Mutes?


----------



## lux

those horns are impressive.

I wonder whats the memory usage with the patches shown in the video.


----------



## stonzthro

Mikes - no other sample developer I know has been so open about how a library is created - this library is awesome, but your openness is even more impressive in my mind.

Really looking forward to grabbing this library.


----------



## Stevie

lux @ 7th May 2011 said:


> those horns are impressive.
> 
> I wonder whats the memory usage with the patches shown in the video.



The used RAM is shown in the Kontakt GUI. Check it out, it's 40 - 90 MB per patch.


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

Just one small criticism - I think the legato transitions are too loud just like on the trumpets, at least on the solo horn


----------



## lux

Stevie @ Sat May 07 said:


> lux @ 7th May 2011 said:
> 
> 
> 
> those horns are impressive.
> 
> I wonder whats the memory usage with the patches shown in the video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The used RAM is shown in the Kontakt GUI. Check it out, it's 40 - 90 MB per patch.
Click to expand...


very good then, thanks Stevie.


----------



## stevenson-again

well i'm sold.

1. brilliant idea posting WIP demos to get feedback.

2. as people have suggested the transitions, which sound amazing, are too loud - but can i strongly suggest that the transition volume be adjustable? set the default to where you think is good but allow us the option of attenuating them so that we don't get stuck with them depending on context.

very interested in this library. i think getting us excited this way is good policy too. as you develop it i feel like i am getting to know it and how it's going to work ahead of time. that means i have a better chance of hitting the ground running when it turns up.

just my 2 cents on that.


----------



## Rob Elliott

stevenson-again @ Sat May 07 said:


> well i'm sold.
> 
> 1. brilliant idea posting WIP demos to get feedback.
> 
> 2. as people have suggested the transitions, which sound amazing, are too loud - but can i strongly suggest that the transition volume be adjustable? set the default to where you think is good but allow us the option of attenuating them so that we don't get stuck with them depending on context.
> 
> very interested in this library. i think getting us excited this way is good policy too. as you develop it i feel like i am getting to know it and how it's going to work ahead of time. that means i have a better chance of hitting the ground running when it turns up.
> 
> just my 2 cents on that.




One more vote for legato transitions to be volume adjustable. I can think of times to have it back less than the demos so far and sometimes like we have heard. Wonderful willingness to get our feedback. Don't think I have ever seen this BEFORE a release.


----------



## artinro

stevenson-again @ Sat May 07 said:


> i think getting us excited this way is good policy too. as you develop it i feel like i am getting to know it and how it's going to work ahead of time. that means i have a better chance of hitting the ground running when it turns up.
> 
> just my 2 cents on that.



Well said....agreed!


----------



## dedersen

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

Yeah, the approach taken by the Mikes here, in terms of being very open about the project while it's still in development, taking feedback and actually really acting on it, has been a pleasure to behold. It's made me even more excited about a product I was pretty much sold on from the minute it was announced.


----------



## Stevie

lux @ 7th May 2011 said:


> Stevie @ Sat May 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lux @ 7th May 2011 said:
> 
> 
> 
> those horns are impressive.
> 
> I wonder whats the memory usage with the patches shown in the video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The used RAM is shown in the Kontakt GUI. Check it out, it's 40 - 90 MB per patch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> very good then, thanks Stevie.
Click to expand...


You're welcome o-[][]-o


----------



## Douglas R

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

This sounds absolutely stunning, guys! Kudos for doing it "right." I know it's more money and more work to do it this way in town but I have felt for some time that we ought to be exporting the amazing talent right here in LA, the real "Hollywood" sound.

Since you're still taking feedback may I suggest you find a way to make the top line in poly mode stand out just a bit from the lines below. A live section will balance this naturally but with samples that isn't always the case and the bottom parts end up sounding stronger than the top. Increasing the velocity of the top line will do it in some libs but not always. It would be great to not have to go in and tweak the parts and it seems now with scripting there may be way to do that in real time. Better yet, create a way to give the user control so when we need a strong top line with support below we can bring it out and when we need an even, pad sound we can blend the lines.

BTW, the "Captain" would have been blown away by this lib but I look forward to using it on future projects

Cheers,

Douglas Romayne


----------



## mverta

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

Easy on those legato slides, boys.

Legato slides are the "lens flares," of samples. Rapid chord transitions need to be spritely, not drunk. Oh, and another pet peeve: staccato samples which have a completely different quality than the legato patches. Real horns don't sound like an entirely different instrument when playing staccato, but for some reason, 95% of sample libraries' horns do!

Best,

_Mike


----------



## germancomponist

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

o=<


----------



## Stevie

Yup, and if you look at existing libraries it seems quite hard to provide stacs that aren't FF.


----------



## sevaels

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

Best reply yet from Verta.



> Legato slides are the "lens flares," of samples.



Can we make this a sticky?

:wink:


----------



## Patrick de Caumette

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

Spectacular! _-)


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

I love the email threats we are getting if we don't release the library immediately. Hilarious. >8o


----------



## dannthr

Release the library now or you'll never work in Sherman Oaks AGAIN!!!


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

All the CineBrass videos and information, compiled in one place:
http://cinesamples.com/products/cinebrass/

Will fill that page up with info as we go.


----------



## lux

Has the price tag treated already? hints?

I'm afraid we guys did shoot ourselves in the feet with all our raving...


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*



sevaels @ Sat May 07 said:


> Best reply yet from Verta.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Legato slides are the "lens flares," of samples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can we make this a sticky?
> 
> :wink:
Click to expand...


+1  Look at the CineBrass logo!!! Coincidence???

http://cinesamples.com/products/cinebrass/


Marco


----------



## Stevie

No word on that, yet, Lux.


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*



sevaels @ Sat May 07 said:


> Best reply yet from Verta.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Legato slides are the "lens flares," of samples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can we make this a sticky?
> 
> :wink:
Click to expand...


What's wrong with lens flares?  Watch from 0:56:


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*

ahahahahaha, gold! :lol:


----------



## Stevie

Well to speak in the same metaphor. Nothing is wrong with lens flares, just don't overuse them. It's a small part of the whole toolkit.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*



CineSamples @ Sun May 08 said:


> What's wrong with lens flares?  Watch from 0:56:



Damn right!

I damn near squealed in joy when I saw them in the Super 8 trailer as well. Just instantly evokes that magical 80s Spielberg look. Guess what? Real anamorphic lenses flare! And guess what - real horn players seek notes deliberately sometimes!

So yeah, I too like the transition analogy, but not in the way Mike intended, inferring that they were gimmicky and vulgar. The right transition at the right time makes ALL the difference. Some styles cry out for them in abundance, some need them dialed right back, usually it's just a drop here and there. Again, it's this new musical conservatism that I strongly dislike, where some people go as far as to suggest that string players NEVER use portamento unless its a mistake, for example. That's just crazy.

I'm sure you guys will get it just right once all the levels are tweaked. Carry on!


----------



## Stevie

nod


----------



## mverta

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*



noiseboyuk @ Sun May 08 said:


> I too like the transition analogy, but not in the way Mike intended, inferring that they were gimmicky and vulgar.



Actually, having generated about a million lens flares in 20 years as a visual effects supervisor, what Mike meant was that they're a perfectly valid "reality-selling tool," which can be - and is - often overused to distracting effect. 


Another thought about staccatos: Velocity-controlled staccato length? How about regular velocity-controlled volume and modwheel-controlled staccato length, instead? Seems that would be more naturally playable, to me.



_Mike


----------



## noiseboyuk

I think that would work on a standalone stacc patch, but it would be confusing if it tried to be on the same patch as a sustain where velocity is controlled by CC1 when the pedal is pressed. You'd be completely switching how velocity is controlled. Would be ok on a velocity-controlled sustain though.

EDIT - Stevie, so you'll get the full velocity range under their arrangement anyway, controlled by cc1 (if I understand correctly). Key velocity JUST switches between the notes.

EDIT 2 - chances are Greg's thought of all this anyway!


----------



## Stevie

Ah thanks Guy, I mixed things up! :D


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Tpt/Horn teaser added)*



mverta @ Sun May 08 said:


> noiseboyuk @ Sun May 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I too like the transition analogy, but not in the way Mike intended, inferring that they were gimmicky and vulgar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, having generated about a million lens flares in 20 years as a visual effects supervisor, what Mike meant was that they're a perfectly valid "reality-selling tool," which can be - and is - often overused to distracting effect.
> 
> 
> Another thought about staccatos: Velocity-controlled staccato length? How about regular velocity-controlled volume and modwheel-controlled staccato length, instead? Seems that would be more naturally playable, to me.
> 
> 
> 
> _Mike
Click to expand...


Perhaps you missed it, but watch horn video at the end.
Everything about the mapping is editable to satisfy all your heart's desires. You have 5 presets to choose from as a starting point (one being CC# to control length), and then you can edit as you wish via a parameter grid. I will demo in detail in the next video.

FYI, we are working on the possibility of adding a knob to control transition volume. Will let you know, first if it's possible... it's actually a bit tricky, considering the fact that the transitions speed is variable, based on velocity and playing speed etc...
Will keep you posted on that feature... and, again, our hope is that you won't need it even if it's there.


----------



## Stevie

Woah, I'm sold


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Hey guys. How's this look to you? We added a "Legato Volume" slider to the front of the True Legato patches. This can been assigned to any MIDI CC by right clicking on it.
The slider controls the volume of the transitions from 0%-100%

Again, and sorry to keep urging this, but the transitions are now getting to the point where we think you will not need this slider anyway!

Thanks for your feedback VI-Control!!! w00t!!!!


----------



## BlueGreenBoy

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Sound fantastic so far!

Is there a Cimbasso included in the instrument list?


----------



## sevaels

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Heh great clip and great movie :D 

Glad things are being tweaked - awesome job guys!

o-[][]-o


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Perfect solution on the legato issue, guys - I'm 99% sure I won't need to adjust it cos you'll have done it fine, but it's great to know for the tweekers that it's right there (and it looks very neat and tidy too). If an odd exposed note needs a little nudge, it's right there.



Aaron Symonds @ Mon May 09 said:


> Is there a Cimbasso included in the instrument list?



Yes, and a Tuba. (third time of quoting this! Don't suppose Mikes you can update the Cinebrass page to include the instrument list at least?)


----------



## stevenson-again

that's exactly right. i would like a legato volume slider that i hardly ever need to touch. i suggest that in providing it, people won't need to fiddle with it. but if you hadn't, they would have.


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Having this option is just awesome. And like you say, we probably won't need to touch it after all the transition editing you've been doing - but this will put a lot of people's minds at ease knowing the control is there if you really want it.


----------



## OB.one

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Super Cool :wink: 

Now if we could play double and triple tongue articulation i think cinebrass will be total killer o=< 

Best Regards from Paris

Olivier aka OB.one
http://www.myspace.com/obonemusic
http://soundcloud.com/lentresol-sound-studio


----------



## Tanuj Tiku

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Legato Volume is a GREAT feature....!!!

For far too long I have had some problems with VSL Legatos behaving - as in they jump out in percieved loudness many times and I think this feature will really smoothen things out.


Each day Cine Brass gets closer to a No Brainer deal!


Best,

Tanuj.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*



vibrato @ 9/5/2011 said:


> Each day Cine Brass gets closer to a No Brainer deal!



Really? It was that in my head the first time I even heard about it! 8)


----------



## FireGS

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*



Ned Bouhalassa @ Mon May 09 said:


> vibrato @ 9/5/2011 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Each day Cine Brass gets closer to a No Brainer deal!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? It was that in my head the first time I even heard about it! 8)
Click to expand...


This. +Many.


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

CB indeed is shaping up to be a must have library! And it runs in Kontakt, which is a big plus. 

One small suggestion, which you maybe already included. How about including the bass trombone in the trombone ensemble patches (at least some of them)? Just in the lower range where the tenor trombones don't go down. Usually I find it kind of a waste of MIDI channels to dedicate 4-5 channels just for bass trombones since it is almost never used on its own. Having it built in to the tenor bones patches would seem like a good thing without many (if any) disadvantages


----------



## FireGS

Mike Connelly @ Mon May 09 said:


> Along the same lines, some other libraries have some huge gaps in dynamic layers for shorts, you hit a point where going up 1 in velocity jumps to a completely different sound.



Like Project SAM? XD


----------



## José Herring

Btw, I really appreciate you guys let us in to make comments during your editing phase. Makes me feel like we'll get a product that will actually be usable in the real world rather than work well for a handful of users.


----------



## dcoscina

I couldn't agree more Jose. EW makes fine fine products but at least for HS, I cannot work with it to the level that Thomas B or some others can. My system is mid range. Mac Quad with 4 7200rpm drives. It's not a beast by today's standards but not a Lada either. With CineBrass, it looks like most users will be able to get as much out of it regardless of their system *(barring any Commodore 64 users).


----------



## Bfuhrmann

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Long time reader of VIcontrol, posted only a few times. 

But, these brass... I can't remain silent any longer.

Beautiful work guys, and like many have said, great to see developers immediately adding and re-working material as people comment on it. If I can swing to buy Cinebrass when it comes out (currently just a student, starting my graduate degree in the Fall) I definitely will, no questions asked. 

Cheers!


----------



## José Herring

You're not alone David. Of all the composers i know here in town, I only know one person, other than the demo composers, who have been able to make full use of HS. And, he's gone through considerable trouble to make his investment payoff for him and I still think he can only use one mic position at a time.

I'm curious to really hear cinebrass in full demos. Their keep it simple approach is something I've been working towards with my own private editing and samples. It has improved my sample work a lot.

I'm so excited that Cinesamples is actually listening to us, as I think it's an excellent way to get something that most of us will be able to use. Can't wait for release.


----------



## Polarity

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Horns sound wonderful, really impressive!

Thanks for doing short articulations keyswitches also, and not velocityswitch only.

A question: will you do a script for short repetitions similar to LASS ART??


----------



## eschroder

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

I'm anxious to hear a trombone demo =]


----------



## Stevie

Btw, have the trumpets tuning issues been solved?


----------



## FireGS

I heard the Trombones are finished, they just have to make the demo =P


----------



## Stevie

josejherring @ 9th May 2011 said:


> You're not alone David. Of all the composers i know here in town, I only know one person, other than the demo composers, who have been able to make full use of HS.



And I bet, if HS were available for Kontakt, it would work without a hitch.


----------



## Pzy-Clone

Stevie @ Mon May 09 said:


> josejherring @ 9th May 2011 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're not alone David. Of all the composers i know here in town, I only know one person, other than the demo composers, who have been able to make full use of HS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I bet, if HS were available for Kontakt, it would work without a hitch.
Click to expand...


I don’t think so...as I understand it, HS has something like 15 sample layers triggered at once in the bigger legato patches, plus an equal number of release samples, all across 5 mic positions...that would be something like 150 voices at once for just one legato patch with all mic positions.

And across the entire string section that means you will need 750 voices and upward or double or triple that amount if you have allot of fast overlaps where the voice count stacks up!

Now you probably (I can only assume, as I do not have HS) won’t be running 5 mic positions at once...but there is no way Kontakt could stream 1500+ voices of 24bit (long sustaining) samples all at once without "a hitch", unless you have a really really powerful system?

I have been able to push kontakt to 1000 voices on my old-ish computer...but there is a vast difference between that and having such a huge numbe of voices going off EXACTLY AT THE SAME TIME and in perfect sync!

I think this idea that kontakt could run HS so much better than Play is a myth, but anyone is free to prove it wrong, simply layer up 1000+ voices worth of legato instruments in kontakt, play them all at once with "without a hitch" on a average NON SSD system and upload a video 

Now I have to agree that Play, from my short and very limited experience with it...seemed a bit basic...and I am sure it has its flaws…. But to just throw out these wild claims that it would be so effortless in kontakt is quite ignorant, in my humble opinion.

Some perspective, and perhaps respect is in due order...HS is a huge library, and it would be a challenge to play it back all-at-once-and-glitch-free on any system and sampler with the current state of hardware, I suspect.

Anyway, this is thread about CineBrass..which looks and sounds fantastic so far...but we have no idea how the specs will compare to EWHB, and using this thread as a means to discredit that before it is even released is completely unnecessary.

Good luck to the Cinesamples team , looking forward to this one indeed!


----------



## Stevie

Well, hard to prove. But yeah, maybe you are right an Kontakt 4 wasn't made for such huge amounts of samples. I can't really tell. But seeing Kontakt 4 improving all the time (the newest version is just gold with its fast loading times) I wouldn't worry about constant improvements in that area.
All I can say is (out of my own experience): Kontakt is a real workhorse.


----------



## Pzy-Clone

Stevie @ Tue May 10 said:


> Well, hard to prove. But yeah, maybe you are right an Kontakt 4 wasn't made for such huge amounts of samples. I can't really tell. But seeing Kontakt 4 improving all the time (the newest version is just gold with its fast loading times) I wouldn't worry about constant improvements in that area.
> All I can say is (out of my own experience): Kontakt is a real workhorse.



I am not saying kontakt is not great, it is ...and I have no idea what it was made for in terms of library sizes, but this idea that because PLAY has difficulties running a 300GB+ (!) string library must be because Play itself is a train wreck, and not because it actually IS difficult to run that much regardless of the sampler...seems a bit thoughtless to me. 
But I guess we will never know anyway, in the case of HS, huh?

What other libraries for kontakt are comparable in size and resource intensity, anyway? None that I can think of. So whether contact could run it so much better that Play is completely based on wild speculation on your part...and if EW says it would not work, I kind of lean towards thinking they did SOME research on the subject at least, if you could believe that?

Anyway, sorry for steering this slightly off-topic...ideally I would like to have them both, and as hardware improves with time and the costs come down to a sensible level...I imagine we will be running them all side by side some fine day, hopefully not too far away.

BTW adding a legato transition level fader is a very vey good thing!!
I wish all libraries had this...gonna be a real time-saver!


----------



## Mahlon

[quote:9c4076c9f5œ Ì   _î Ì   _ï Ì   Ð† Ì   ò6 Ì   @ð Ì   F Ì   F Ì   F Ì   F Ì   F Ì   F Ì   F Ì   F Ì   F Ì   F Ì   F Ì   Oö Ì   Æ" Ì   Æ# Ì   Æ$ Ì   Æ% Ì   Æ& Ì   Æ' Ì   Æ( Ì   Æ) Ì   CÊ Ì   CË Ì   CÌ Ì   CÍ Ì   CÎ Ì   CÏ Ì   CÐ Ì   CÑ Ì   CÒ Ì   CÓ Ì   CÔ Ì   CÕ Ì   CÖ Ì   »ö Ì   »÷ Ì   »ø Ì   »ù Ì   »ú Ì   »û Ì   »ü Ì   3ð Ì


----------



## tripit

Pzy-Clone @ Mon May 09 said:


> I think this idea that kontakt could run HS so much better than Play is a myth, but anyone is free to prove it wrong, simply layer up 1000+ voices worth of legato instruments in kontakt, play them all at once with "without a hitch" on a average NON SSD system and upload a video
> 
> Now I have to agree that Play, from my short and very limited experience with it...seemed a bit basic...and I am sure it has its flaws…. But to just throw out these wild claims that it would be so effortless in kontakt is quite ignorant, in my humble opinion.



I have to agree. Athough lossless would probably help Play, but mostly it's not about voices. HS is a little too massive for just about anything, at least right now.

And Play biggest problem is the design. It's still missing some very significant features. 

Now to Cinebrass - I think this will be a library that does for horns what LASS did for strings, at least for the moment.


----------



## tripit

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*



Simon Ravn @ Mon May 09 said:


> CB indeed is shaping up to be a must have library! And it runs in Kontakt, which is a big plus.
> 
> One small suggestion, which you maybe already included. How about including the bass trombone in the trombone ensemble patches (at least some of them)? Just in the lower range where the tenor trombones don't go down. Usually I find it kind of a waste of MIDI channels to dedicate 4-5 channels just for bass trombones since it is almost never used on its own. Having it built in to the tenor bones patches would seem like a good thing without many (if any) disadvantages



+1 Would make life much easier.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Good discussion on Play etc, but I think we should move that over to one of the other threads such as http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20967 or http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20845 or http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20870 and keep this one clear for the majesty that is CineBrass. This is the commercial announcements section after all.


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Maybe discussion between Play and Kontakt should have it’s own new thread. Let’s let the CB makers speak here and us for discussion.


----------



## Pzy-Clone

Simon Ravn @ Tue May 10 said:


> Pzy-Clone @ Tue May 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stevie @ Tue May 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, hard to prove. But yeah, maybe you are right an Kontakt 4 wasn't made for such huge amounts of samples. I can't really tell. But seeing Kontakt 4 improving all the time (the newest version is just gold with its fast loading times) I wouldn't worry about constant improvements in that area.
> All I can say is (out of my own experience): Kontakt is a real workhorse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not saying kontakt is not great, it is ...and I have no idea what it was made for in terms of library sizes, but this idea that because PLAY has difficulties running a 300GB+ (!) string library must be because Play itself is a train wreck, and not because it actually IS difficult to run that much regardless of the sampler...seems a bit thoughtless to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not the point. We are fully aware that HS is a demanding library. The point is that PLAY has stability issues (at least on Mac), a vastly inferior user interface and much slower loading compared to Kontakt (taking into account the sample material that has to be loaded). Kontakt never crashes and has a pretty good GUI (although I think GigaStudio is still the best in that respect). Also in Kontakt you can overrule the sample prefetch size and fit it to your computers needs/demands - in PLAY you have three more or less cryptic settings called low, medium and high, which even EastWest can't explain properly in their manual.
Click to expand...


Well, perhaps that is not your point, but MY point was that I doubt very much kontakt would be able to stream HS "without a hitch" as the poster claimed..., even with increased pre-load buffers there are still HUGE voice counts to be dealt with, which has nothing to do with the GUI and slower loading times. 
That does not excuse Play`s flaws...but it says nothing about kontakt`s ability to stream a 300GB library either.

But I would prefer a kontakt based library myself, so in case you feel terribly offended by the notion that I do not think play is the devil incarnate, I can assure you that I am not looking to defend the integrity of Play for any reason whatsoever, just that in this particular case of HS, I think people are downright wrong when assuming it would all be peachy in k4. But then again, that is also just speculation, and neither of us will ever know if that is the case or not anyway.

Well, that is all i have to say here as it is not directly related to the CB thread, but for the sake of getting the context right i posted this response here, mmmkay?


----------



## noiseboyuk

C'mon guys, I've posted links to 3 other relevant threads to this discussion, and there are others, or start another if you want. I'm not a mod, but it seems really rude to keep it going here.

More CineBrass news! Rumours! Speculation! Such as... wonder if you guys are planning any semi-intelligent multis either on release or in the future? Would be awesome to be able to play whole sections (if it worked script-wise).


----------



## Daniel James

noiseboyuk @ Tue May 10 said:


> C'mon guys, I've posted links to 3 other relevant threads to this discussion, and there are others, or start another if you want. I'm not a mod, but it seems really rude to keep it going here.
> 
> More CineBrass news! Rumours! Speculation! Such as... wonder if you guys are planning any semi-intelligent multis either on release or in the future? Would be awesome to be able to play whole sections (if it worked script-wise).



Well the poly legato is 8 voices per patch right? so my multi will have (I am not sure how many players are in each section)

6 horns x 8 voices
3 Trombone x 8 voices
2 trumpets x 8 voices
1 Tuba x 8
= 96 Brass players I shall call it EPIC MEGA BRASS SECTION

haha thing is...if I could afford that many players in real life I would probably do it.

Dan


----------



## stonzthro

we all would I think - at least once...


----------



## Daniel James

Heh I sometimes chuckle a bit when a 'proper' composer tells me off and says my track is bad because I cannot have that many Brass players in real life....I get an evil grin, put on the monocle and say "Or can I muhahaha"


----------



## Danny_Owen

Using 'excessive' amounts of musicians for a recording session has been around for far longer than a lot of people realise I guess.

This is about Bernard Herrmann's philosphy - admittedly it's from Wickipedia, but still interesting and I expect the facts are correct on the numbers of instruments: 

"His philosophy of orchestrating film was based on the assumption that the musicians were selected and hired for the recording session—that this music was not constrained to the musical forces of the concert hall. For example, his use of ten harps in Beneath the 12 Mile Reef created an extraordinary underwater-like sonic landscape; his use of four bass flutes in Citizen Kane contributed to the creepy opening, only matched by the use of 12 flutes in his unused Torn Curtain score; and his use of the serpent in White Witch Doctor is possibly the first modern use of that instrument."

I say use how ever many instruments you want  well, so long as you can pull it off.


----------



## dcoscina

josejherring @ Mon May 09 said:


> You're not alone David. Of all the composers i know here in town, I only know one person, other than the demo composers, who have been able to make full use of HS. And, he's gone through considerable trouble to make his investment payoff for him and I still think he can only use one mic position at a time.
> 
> .



I think this is where EW can sometimes be a little defensive. I'm not slagging the audio quality of their work- it's pretty stellar, no doubt and I still use their 8 year old EWQLSO in my music. I love Goliath, and even Fab Four is delightful. But Hollywood Strings is one of the few products I wish I had waited on a little-or bought the Gold version because Diamond is just too slow and massive to use on my modest system. And really, it's not a Mac Mini or even iMac- it's a Mac Pro Quad. 

Anyhow, I hope CineBrass kicks butt (but doesn't kick too much of my wallet's butt). It's got the sound I needed for that documentary I was scoring last Fall/Winter. I'm a little disappointed with VSL Dimension Brass because, kinda like EW, it takes more than a fair bit of work to make sound good. And it's not orchestrational work I'm talking about (that stuff I can do). From the movies Mike P is putting out, CineBrass looks VERY user friendly, and it definitely has a stable platform in K4. Plus 64 bit wonderfulness. 

Keep up the great work Mike's! We're all cheering you on!!


----------



## KMuzzey

Daniel James @ Tue May 10 said:


> Heh I sometimes chuckle a bit when a 'proper' composer tells me off and says my track is bad because I cannot have that many Brass players in real life....I get an evil grin, put on the monocle and say "Or can I muhahaha"



That just made my day. Awesome. :D


----------



## dcoscina

Well, like Herrmann said, if it's just for the purposes of recording, go wild. If you're mocking up a piece to be replaced by real musicians, than you have to observe some orchestration rules.


----------



## Daniel James

dcoscina @ Tue May 10 said:


> Well, like Herrmann said, if it's just for the purposes of recording, go wild. If you're mocking up a piece to be replaced by real musicians, than you have to observe some orchestration rules.



Unless of course you do intend to record 96 live players :D


----------



## SF_Guy

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

On the polyphonic solo horns (and I'm assuming trpts/tbns), how are the sounds being generated and panned? Are these all separate recordings for each line? Or the same recording? Are they panned differently for each line so they're not on top of each other?

Thanks!


----------



## noiseboyuk

I did see a youth performance at the Albert Hall last year with a full orchestra, a 250 strong choir, a 2nd massive brass section up in the gods in a 300 degree wraparound formation, a pipe organ, 50 drummers and a Big Hammer. Thought Hans would be proud.

Anyway, back to the the multis... I don't think this is a divisi library especially, it's more the blending of the instruments and the ranges, without anything leaping out I guess.


----------



## EastWest Lurker

Daniel James @ Tue May 10 said:


> Heh I sometimes chuckle a bit when a 'proper' composer tells me off and says my track is bad because I cannot have that many Brass players in real life....I get an evil grin, put on the monocle and say "Or can I muhahaha"



Whether it is real players or samples, you have to know who and what you are writing for.

Samples are not the real thing and when I am writing for them I may want to be informed by what the real guys would do in a real space but I do not wish to be constrained by it. If I have to live with all the disadvantages of samples, I should be able to take advantage of the advantages.


----------



## Daniel James

EastWest Lurker @ Tue May 10 said:


> Daniel James @ Tue May 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heh I sometimes chuckle a bit when a 'proper' composer tells me off and says my track is bad because I cannot have that many Brass players in real life....I get an evil grin, put on the monocle and say "Or can I muhahaha"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whether it is real players or samples, you have to know who and what you are writing for.
> 
> Samples are not the real thing and when I am writing for them I may want to be informed by what the real guys would do in a real space but I do not wish to be constrained by it. If I have to live with all the disadvantages of samples, I should be able to take advantage of the advantages.
Click to expand...


To be honest I always just write what sounds good to me. 99% of the time I don't have to worry about if a live player can play it so I don't let that influence my writing at all.

I constantly get told by others...you shouldn't write that line because of reason x and y, or you should be thinking about how this would happen in real life...but at the end of the day I think working like that puts unnecessary restraints on you as a composer. If it sounds good its good, whether or not a real player could play the line, I still managed to produce the sound and it works in my track.

Perhaps my way thinking about music is a bit different than alot of the conventional composers here but I think some of you over think things sometimes. Remember sound is sound....if its being produced by an acoustic instrument or an electronic representation, just use the strengths of what you have..and computers have alot of strengths that acoustic instruments do not.

Just my opinion of course.

Dan


----------



## Cinesamples

noiseboyuk @ Tue May 10 said:


> wonder if you guys are planning any semi-intelligent multis either on release or in the future? Would be awesome to be able to play whole sections (if it worked script-wise).



Yeah, we're working on Ensemble Multis. This will be the real meat and potatoes of the library. More on this as we finish....


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Hey Mikes,

Another big thanks for allowing this community to get into your soup. Good for us and I think just smart business.

I'm buying this regardless but really interested to hear some double/triple tonguing (solo and ensemble trumpets) if at all possible. Honestly - not a deal breaker for me - given all the other 'treats' we have seen thus far - but if you can pull this off I'll name the next stray cat we pick up - *Mikes*. :wink:


----------



## OB.one

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

+ 1 for the double/triple tonguing demos :wink: 

Already asked for it in my previous post.

Good Luck with the thousands of editing and us who always want and ask for more !!! o=< 

Best Regards

Olivier


----------



## MaestroRage

This is a terrible library, nobody will ever buy it. Sounds ar-

I can't do it. We all know it's a lie... I just hope we haven't shot ourselves in the foot price wise by letting M and M know how intensely sweet this library is looking :D

I'll just sit here with my credit card out waiting...


----------



## sevaels

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

'If it sounds good it is good'.....

I can remember things I wrote way back that I thought sounded good at the time....but they weren't. :wink:

Viscous cycle it is!


----------



## artinro

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Let's hear those trombones and low brass Mikes! :D


----------



## José Herring

Daniel James @ Tue May 10 said:


> Heh I sometimes chuckle a bit when a 'proper' composer tells me off and says my track is bad because I cannot have that many Brass players in real life....I get an evil grin, put on the monocle and say "Or can I muhahaha"



It's funny. Berlioz who I consider one of the God fathers of "modern" orchestration, talks about in his orchestration book expanding the size of the orchestra. I think he calls it the "orchestra of the future". He talks about having 4 violin sections basically doubling or quadrupling all the stings, a piano section consisting of 4 or more pianos, double winds, an ungodly amount of brass, ect..... He dreamed of this. The main reason why we settled on the standard orchestra was a combination of balance, stage size and economics. In the imagination of Berlioz the size of the orchestra was unlimited if one took care to balance out the section by proportionately increasing the size of all the sections in ratio.

So the next time some "proper" composer tells you that you can't have "x,y,z" in your music because it doesn't conform to the "proper" orchestra, you can turn your nose up at him and ask him, "if he's ever made it to the end of the Berlioz/Strauss treatise on Orchestration." Then when he looks at you dumb founded, you then tell him that he should have studied a little harder. :mrgreen: 

It's funny that he wrote this treatise more than 150 years ago for more "trained" composer, but the guy that's made the most use of it whether consciously or not is Hans Zimmer. I thought the huge brass sizes in Inception was jaw dropping and the massive string sound is legendary. Yet a lot of more "proper" composers look down on him, rather trying to figure out what he's doing right and making it better.

I'm impressed with what you're doing Daniel. I thin most guys my age fear younger composers so they'll do anything to try to discourage new guys. Me personally, I love when some newer guy comes in and shakes up the game. I love it when some young guy makes me rethink what I've been doing. You seem confident enough, but I just wanted to say, you keep at it!

best,

Jose


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Great post, Jose.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Great post, Jose.


----------



## dcoscina

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

I love working with atypical ensembles. I'm doing a piece now for upright bass, 3 horns, soprano sax, marimba, percussion and trap kit. Fun!


----------



## antoniopandrade

+1 on Jose's post. Very inspiring!


----------



## Ashermusic

josejherring @ Wed May 11 said:


> Daniel James @ Tue May 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heh I sometimes chuckle a bit when a 'proper' composer tells me off and says my track is bad because I cannot have that many Brass players in real life....I get an evil grin, put on the monocle and say "Or can I muhahaha"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny. Berlioz who I consider one of the God fathers of "modern" orchestration, talks about in his orchestration book expanding the size of the orchestra. I think he calls it the "orchestra of the future". He talks about having 4 violin sections basically doubling or quadrupling all the stings, a piano section consisting of 4 or more pianos, double winds, an ungodly amount of brass, ect..... He dreamed of this. The main reason why we settled on the standard orchestra was a combination of balance, stage size and economics. In the imagination of Berlioz the size of the orchestra was unlimited if one took care to balance out the section by proportionately increasing the size of all the sections in ratio.
> 
> So the next time some "proper" composer tells you that you can't have "x,y,z" in your music because it doesn't conform to the "proper" orchestra, you can turn your nose up at him and ask him, "if he's ever made it to the end of the Berlioz/Strauss treatise on Orchestration." Then when he looks at you dumb founded, you then tell him that he should have studied a little harder. :mrgreen:
> 
> It's funny that he wrote this treatise more than 150 years ago for more "trained" composer, but the guy that's made the most use of it whether consciously or not is Hans Zimmer. I thought the huge brass sizes in Inception was jaw dropping and the massive string sound is legendary. Yet a lot of more "proper" composers look down on him, rather trying to figure out what he's doing right and making it better.
> 
> I'm impressed with what you're doing Daniel. I thin most guys my age fear younger composers so they'll do anything to try to discourage new guys. Me personally, I love when some newer guy comes in and shakes up the game. I love it when some young guy makes me rethink what I've been doing. You seem confident enough, but I just wanted to say, you keep at it!
> 
> best,
> 
> Jose
Click to expand...


ROTFL!


----------



## Jack Weaver

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Regarding pricing - 

I think it should somewhat calibrated with the amount of articulations available. 

In other words, if there are only the legatos, shorts and sustains it should be moderately priced. If in addition there are lots of articulations that we don't know about yet perhaps the price should be modulated upwards accordingly. 

For example, Hollywood Brass uses an arguably equally desirable venue, an extremely capable recordist, and with approximately the same number of the highest quality union musicians _and _will have a large number of articulations. Since their cost of creating this will be more perhaps it could end up selling at a higher price. If on the other hand Cinesamples offers less articulations (usability aside) then their cost of creating product might be considerably less and could be passed on to the end user. 

Food for thought. 

.


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Jack - comparing East West to the Streisand stage is really stretching it. Though I understand what you mean, the two are totally in different realms.

Not so sure about the EW union thing btw.


----------



## Ed

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*



Jack Weaver @ Wed May 11 said:


> For example, Hollywood Brass uses an arguably equally desirable venue, an extremely capable recordist, and with approximately the same number of the highest quality union musicians _and _will have a large number of articulations. Since their cost of creating this will be more perhaps it could end up selling at a higher price. If on the other hand Cinesamples offers less articulations (usability aside) then their cost of creating product might be considerably less and could be passed on to the end user.
> 
> Food for thought.
> 
> .



... I dunno about that, by that logic Hollywood Strings should be a gazillion dollars, right?


----------



## Jack Weaver

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Hi Mike,

I really must claim ignorance of all what is in your library. I only know what has been divulged publicly to date. The overriding value is that it sounds great. 

Likewise, I expect HB to sound good also. Like I wrote, ‘an arguably equally desirable venue’, is one that is debatable, not completely blown out of the water. Still even if EW isn’t the room that Sony is I’ll bet that HB is also pretty killer sounding - probably a slightly different tonality and room tone than Cinebrass. I’m not in the position of needing to defend EW or any other developer. I want all developers to be pushed to the limits of creativity and expand what's possible. 

Now if Library A sounds as good as Library B, and Library B has a greater amount of usable content – then which one is of more value to a composer? 

One of my early comments in this thread was wondering where to go to get those other needed articulations that match up with the wonderful lively tone of Cinebrass? My real hope is that you guys are actually including those within this release – both answering my question and providing much more value to composers. 


I’ll purchase it either way because of its tone, dynamics and usability. To me it makes sense that pricing should be somewhat calibrated to the amount of articulations available. If comprehensive double- and triple-tonguing, rips, mutes and falls, etc., are in Cinebrass I would expect and be willing to pay a pretty hefty price for something that is an all-encompassing answer to the brass situation we face daily. If there's less I would expect pricing to be somewhat modulated. 

Thanks for taking the initiative to make such a library and dropping it on us like a bomb. I really like what I’ve heard of the Articulations patch and the various legatos. They’ll solve a lot of problems here. 

If you think I'm 'way out of line then I'm 'all ears' to hear where my ideas took a turn away from reality. 

.


----------



## noiseboyuk

I'm fairly sure - reading what the Mikes have said here and elsewhere - that double / triple tonguing isn't included while rips are. Haven't read anything to indicate there may be falls, stopped or mute, but there's still time to be surprised!

Being as we know CB is going to be a monster hit anyway (!), I think a future expansion is probably the likliest bet. As someone pointed out, falls etc are a piece of cake next to legato. However, double / triple tonguing is another matter. VSL have fast repetitions which are closest right now, but I know Cinesamples could do way better with their C.I.T.E engine. Would be terrific to have a few keyswitches to choose between the variations, all tempo-locked. As I say, I'm pretty sure this can't be for this release, but just a thought about the future.


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Yeh we recorded a ton of shorts RR etc... We will make demos. Things are proceeding well. 

Sorry Jack I didn't mean to offend you regarding the rooms. It's just I've been to both and their is a huge size/magic difference.


----------



## FireGS

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

I went to EastWest Studios less than a year ago. A group of myself, and my team happened to be on Sunset, and we're like, "Yo, lets freaking find Nick and Doug. Lets go get them!!!!"

We really just wanted our copies of HS already. They threw us out. We wanted a tour - we'd even pay! They said no. Sad day was sad. :cry:


----------



## Jack Weaver

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*



> Yeh we recorded a ton of shorts RR etc... We will make demos. Things are proceeding well.



That's great to know!

.


----------



## Ah_dziz

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

This is looking pretty awesome from the info and demos that have been released. Did you guys hang something from the ceiling while you were at Sony?


----------



## Ashermusic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*



c0mp0ser @ Thu May 12 said:


> The "magic" bit is not valid IMHO. Studios are walls, floors, angles, and physics and to a degree perhaps knowing the history of who has recorded there. If there is such a thing as a studio having "magic", and I am not sure that there is, I actually felt the most "magic" I have felt in a studio in Capitol A. And more than ANY studio, I felt it in Symphony Hall in Boston.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Jay, don't be a crankypants. "Magic" just refers to that extra something in a room that couldnt have been planned, even after the perfect combination of materials, walls, floors and physics have been designed.
> 
> I think all great rooms have that special something, SONY's being especially "magical".
Click to expand...


Understood and largely agreed except that I do not think that Sony is especially "magical." Which is not to say that it was/is not a great scoring stage.

I only took exception to it, and perhaps I should have done so as East West Lurker, to Cinesamples saying it as an incentive to buy their library over HB. 

Bigger room? Sure. 

Different sounding, better sounding if they think so? Fine. 

More "magical"? Not buying it.


----------



## c0mp0ser

Figures... since you're a Red Sox fan


----------



## noiseboyuk

Gee if it was where Jurassic Park and Back To The Future were recorded, plenty enough magic for me, Jay...


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Ok well we will just let the list of soundtracks recorded there speak for itself. Afterall this is soundtracks we want. I dont mean to be petty it's just damn important in my eyes 

Can't trust you baseball fans anyway


----------



## Hannes_F

josejherring @ Thu May 12 said:


> EW claims that their brass library will be able to do 99% of what a real brass section and players can do.



If that is true I really wonder why the players did it. I hear they don't expect a sample library to affect their business but maybe they are not very well informed in that regard.


----------



## José Herring

Hannes_F @ Thu May 12 said:


> josejherring @ Thu May 12 said:
> 
> 
> 
> EW claims that their brass library will be able to do 99% of what a real brass section and players can do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is true I really wonder why the players did it. I hear they don't expect a sample library to affect their business but maybe they are not very well informed in that regard.
Click to expand...


Players in town right now a so desperate for work they'll do anything. It's a shame. It's the main reason why I didn't pursue more studio playing work when I came to town. 

I guess samples are good and bad really. Bad in the sense that they really are taking away a lot of work from people. Good in the sense that maybe we should just all go back to playing live concerts anyway. Maybe finally LA will get some more chamber music going as players try to find other avenues to pursue. There's signs of that happening. A lot of young players coming up here don't even consider studio work as a viable option, opting instead to do live work, community outreach projects, and concert repertoire including new commissions.

But, like I said, EW claim remains to be heard to be believed.


----------



## Joe S

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*



Jack Weaver @ Thu May 12 said:


> Jose wisely stated:
> 
> 
> 
> Focusing on killer editing and ease of use for the end user would be the thing to focus on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. I hope the EW doesn't shortchange itself and its early adopters by rushing the product out the door simply because of perceived sales reasons.
> 
> I'll be getting both as available. But I don't need any more 'place-holders' on my sample drives. I want usable patches that are 'go-to's' That's what is so appealing about Cinebrass at this point.
> 
> Nick, Doug, Thomas et al, please take the time to do it right the first time. Enough people will wait or pick it up because it turned out really good. Look at LASS as a lesson. Plenty of people thought it was old news when HS first came out. But its enduring quality, usability and continuing commitment to upgrades have made it a perennial best seller.
> 
> Please give us a product with 'legs'.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


The only reason that Hollywood Strings doesn't out sell LASS by a wide margin is PLAY. Hollywood Strings is a more complete library with a lot more legs. It has too many legs. and there are updates all the time. It has a lot more to offer than LASS because it is simply a much more complete library and it just sounds better. When the dust settles and if PLAY can improve a bit and run 64 bit, people will gravitate towards HS. It's all about what can help you get the best work done and sound real. I'll bett that the Hollywood brass library will be rushed out, because of the cinesamples thing, though. But hopefully not before PLAY 64 bit is released.


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*



Joe S @ Fri May 13 said:


> The only reason that Hollywood Strings doesn't out sell LASS by a wide margin is PLAY.



You have sales figures for both? If you do, don't post them, but if you don't, how do you know what out sells what?

Cheers.


----------



## David Story

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*



> josejherring @ Thu May 12, 2011 6:27 pm wrote:
> EW claims that their brass library will be able to do 99% of what a real brass section and players can do.



That's hype. You know it won't do 50%.

Imitating other instruments is a useful tool, a way to save money. Who wants to put artists out of work?

Thanks to Mike and Mike for doing both live orchestra and sample music.


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (New Demo!)*



*SUMMON THE WARRIORS*
CineBrass + Perc:
[mp3]http://cinesamples.com/samples/CB_Summon_the_Warriors_WITH_PERC.mp3[/mp3]
CineBrass only:
[mp3]http://cinesamples.com/samples/CB_Summon_the_Warriors_BRASS_ONLY.mp3[/mp3]

First CineBrass demo! Mostly testing to see how it all works together. I put in some "triple tounging" because there were several comments about that here. This took about an hour to produce. 

-Mike P


----------



## johnhamilton

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

bit of latency on the youtube video, I'm going to guess that's not Cinesample's fault though 

Great sounds, well done guys 
Just one quick limitation question, how high do the trumpets go on the patch?


----------



## noiseboyuk

Fab.

I like the triple tonguing - in truth it's not as good as the real thing, but I think it's the best I've heard yet from a VI. Unless I'm mistaken, those trumpets at the top are just from ONE non-keyswitch patch, "trumpet articulations". If so, that's tremendous.

Great demo guys, awesome to think it was only an hour to put together.


----------



## Ed

Wow sounds awesome!!! And amazing its out of the box! Can't wait to see/hear more.

This brass war is exciting. :D


----------



## rJames

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

OK, that sounds pretty good but we don't even know if it blends well with strings.

Can it do quadruple tonguing?

Can't wait till it comes out. I'm going to ask Frederick if he'll create a separate forum for unwanted and unofficial "demos". Then we'll see what can be done in an hour!


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Trumpets go up to the high F above the staff. But don't write up there if it's going to live players afterwards! 
In this piece, the highest note goes to C above treble.


----------



## Cinesamples

The tonguing is acheived by playing the 1/8 shorts in rapid succession. So any type of triple or quadruple tonguing should be possible.


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*

Also this is just the "Full Mix" - you will be able to make your own levels - we haven't demoed those yet. Also we haven't bounced with the bricasti verb yet.


----------



## IvanP

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

Wow! What a GREAT Sound!!!

Great stuff, Mikes! Really, great stuff...

Now, we just need a crysis friendly price tag


----------



## Ed

CineSamples @ Thu May 12 said:


> any type of triple or quadruple tonguing should be possible.



Thats impressive... means you seem to have got really nice shorts...

Looking foward to hearing it with the verb, I think its great its not even finished yet and it still sounds great :D


----------



## David Story

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

Epic and musical, great sound. I think I can hear the Sony stage in the brilliance of the tone, the volume of air. Thanks!


----------



## José Herring

Sounds awesome. 

Check some of the tuning in the solo horn though. Slightly out. But, I'm not so sure that's a bad thing.

Let the brass wars continue!


----------



## IvanP

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

'Nother question:

I see the solos seems GREAT for slow, patriotic stuff...but can they also handle fast, melodic lines? 

Thks


----------



## artinro

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

Wonderful sound! Would love to hear this same demo with your Bricasti patches too. 

Well done gents!


----------



## Ashermusic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*



mikebarry @ Thu May 12 said:


> Ok well we will just let the list of soundtracks recorded there speak for itself. Afterall this is soundtracks we want. I dont mean to be petty it's just damn important in my eyes
> 
> Can't trust you baseball fans anyway



LOL!


----------



## johnhamilton

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Legato Volume slider added!)*



CineSamples @ Thu 12 May said:


> Trumpets go up to the high F above the staff. But don't write up there if it's going to live players afterwards!
> In this piece, the highest note goes to C above treble.



Not unless my live players are all descendants of Miles Davis


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

There is a really cool interview with John Williams and Yo Yo Ma about the magic of Sony's Recording Stage.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/memoir ... d159778453


----------



## Ranietz

Sounds great! What reverb was used on the version with the percussion?


----------



## Rob Elliott

noiseboyuk @ Thu May 12 said:


> Fab.
> 
> I like the triple tonguing - in truth it's not as good as the real thing, but I think it's the best I've heard yet from a VI. Unless I'm mistaken, those trumpets at the top are just from ONE non-keyswitch patch, "trumpet articulations". If so, that's tremendous.
> 
> Great demo guys, awesome to think it was only an hour to put together.




I would agree with Guy on all accounts here. Not quite as good as the real deal but freaking passable for about 8/10 gigs I get where NO live musicians are used. And honestly those gigs where live orchestra will be used - you just saved us a LOT of time in 'selling' (programming/tweaking) the brass.

Very nice work Mikes - this is shaping up nicely. I bet you sell a few more than a copy to your uncle and mom.  Should be a big seller for you.


Solo Horn is out of tune a tad but I personally like it. Still in the realm of 'character' for these ears - albeit right on the edge. 10 more cents and it might be a problem but like it.

Released before Memorial Day?


----------



## adg21

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (New Demo!)*



CineSamples @ Thu May 12 said:


> *SUMMON THE WARRIORS*
> CineBrass + Perc:
> [mp3]http://cinesamples.com/samples/CB_Summon_the_Warriors_WITH_PERC.mp3[/mp3]
> CineBrass only:
> [mp3]http://cinesamples.com/samples/CB_Summon_the_Warriors_BRASS_ONLY.mp3[/mp3]
> ò á   Rï´ á   Rð á   Rò6 á   Rò¼ á   RùÔ á   RúH á   S
> ˆ á   S
> À á   S á   S" á   S¤ á   SÓ á   S- á   Sí á   Sà á   SÃ á   SD á   S¦ á   S) á   S) á   S) á   S)¿ á   S: á   S:Q á   S:Ö á   S á   [email protected]¯ á   [email protected]ó á   SF2 á   SF¯ á   SKä á   SL, á   SSÁ á   ST á


----------



## Dave Connor

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

Sounds Excellent. The trombone parts are 'ensemble'? So more than one bone on each part? 3 x's 2 or something like that?


----------



## PeterMalick

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

You obviously have the respect of your peers. Everything I've heard on your various demos sounds amazing & I'm making my first Cinesample acquisition this weekend.


----------



## Joe S

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

Sounds good.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Pedro Camacho @ Fri May 13 said:


> To be improved:
> 
> 1-Attack
> I think this library needs more "attack" sounds.
> The legato is good as it is but for me the brass section needs to have killer attack sounds:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vjS1igYKaw
> 
> More Attack sounds:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEpa0MbUKS8&t=0m40s



Can't say I agree there... I don't hear a lack of attack in that recent demo at all. (incidentally... your first link I realise is the mighty LSO, but there's some real life tuning issues for you!)


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

Sounds great!!! o-[][]-o


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*



Pietro @ Fri May 13 said:


> I have not been lurking through the whole thread, but is this legato retonguing that I hear in 0:43? Not asking about tripple tonguing.
> 
> - Piotr



Yes, all true legato patches have legato re-tonguing. It is a transition, but just to the same note.


----------



## Ed

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*



CineSamples @ Fri May 13 said:


> Pietro @ Fri May 13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have not been lurking through the whole thread, but is this legato retonguing that I hear in 0:43? Not asking about tripple tonguing.
> 
> - Piotr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, all true legato patches have legato re-tonguing. It is a transition, but just to the same note.
Click to expand...


So it has legato repetitions?


----------



## artinro

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*



CineSamples @ Fri May 13 said:


> Yes, all true legato patches have legato re-tonguing. It is a transition, but just to the same note.



That's great to hear! It really makes a difference.

Mikes...IvanP asked a question earlier in the thread I'd also be curious to know your comments on. Specifically, how do the legato patches handle faster passages?

Really looking forward tò á   ‹èÞ á


----------



## Ed

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*



CineSamples @ Fri May 13 said:


> LIVE BRASS RECORDING
> [mp3]http://cinesamples.com/samples/LIVE_BRASS_ONLY.mp3[/mp3]



Unless others think Im deaf... When I first heard this I thought this sounded surprisngly close (not composition wise) to that first section of the CS demo, thats good!


----------



## Alex Temple

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

Awesome! I'm really digging the trombones in particular and how they have both clarity and weight at the same time. Also, judging my the sound, the entire ensemble sounds like it will leave room in the mix for the other sections. I was going to say the same thing about the trombones - usually the perceived deepness in their bass actually comes from doubling with low strings, bassoons, etc. so I don't think there's anything missing here. Really looking forward to it.


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

Alex is right. This is how they are SUPPOSED to sound. All the signal chain was decided and finalized by Dennis before even the first tuning note of the session. That's how well he knows the room. I was like Ok let's get some levels and he was like - nope we are ready to go. I don't know but "I believe him yo" to quote Half Baked. 


Regarding the "Full Mix" - it's just something we use to save polyphony. They contain the close mics, you might prefer to ditch the close mics if you prefer that 90's cinematic sound.


----------



## Ed

Im so glad you spent so much time and care with the sound


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*



Ed @ Fri May 13 said:


> CineSamples @ Fri May 13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it has legato repetitions?
Click to expand...


Yup.


----------



## Dave Connor

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

Would love to hear some solo bones and solo within traditional 3 note voicings. I believe the last example was ensemble bones doing the 3 note voicings (3 x 2 or whatever the actual configuration.

You obviously have a winner in any case.

Btw, Sony is the old MGM room (right?) which was always recognized by all those great composers back in the day as hands down the best room in town.


----------



## Theseus

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

Ok, since I'm the one who raised some concerns about the low-end, I feel compelled to acknowledge my mistake and admit that YES, this is how it's supposed to be, and yes, we'll get all the bottom end we need by layering the low brass with contrabasses. I mean if Dennis Sands says it's good, IT IS GOOD, dammit ! o 

And I do too think that the live recording provided by Mike sounds devilishly close to the Cinesamples Brass demo.

Can't wait to get my hands on it. Bring it on Native Instruments !


----------



## dcoscina

Great stuff. Feel like a kid again waiting for Christmas to come.


----------



## David Story

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*



CineSamples @ Fri May 13 said:


> LIVE BRASS RECORDING
> [mp3]http://cinesamples.com/samples/LIVE_BRASS_ONLY.mp3[/mp3]
> 
> LIVE BRASS PLUS the rest of the MIDI Orchestra:
> [mp3]http://cinesamples.com//samples/LIVE_BRASS_PLUS_MIDI_ORCH.mp3[/mp3]
> 
> Rough mix, thoughts?



Good performance and recording of the featured section brings it to life. Superb hybrid sound. The midi supports the brass, both the low and high end. Doublings work best, in my view, when the timbres blend into a new sound. The brass just sound better when they blend with the strings, in this orchestration. Sometimes samples and live work the same as live.

On scoring stages:
Sony
Fox
Abbey Road(1&2)

(With props to Newman and Streisand, whom I love)

Those are the big, magic ones, though you can get great audio from many other studios. Capitol A&B, Warners, AIR. Todd AO was on that magic list.


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*






Multi-Mics done!!
So as you know, CineBrass comes with a mixer, allowing you control over the sound of the instrument. You have a choice of CLOSE, ROOM and SURROUND mics, as well as the FULL MIX option, and the REVERB.
The FULL MIX is the CLOSE, ROOM and SURROUND mixed together. 
The REVERB is actual samples of the library passing through a Bricasti M7, not a Kontakt reverb.

Here is my demo, bounced through the mic positions:

FULLMIX + REVERB:
[mp3]http://cinesamples.com/samples/CineBrass-FMX_REVERB.mp3[/mp3]
http://cinesamples.com/samples/CineBrass-FMX_REVERB.mp3

CLOSE MICS ONLY:
[mp3]http://cinesamples.com/samples/CineBrass-CLOSE.mp3[/mp3]
http://cinesamples.com/samples/CineBrass-CLOSE.mp3

ROOM MICS ONLY:
[mp3]http://cinesamples.com/samples/CineBrass-ROOM.mp3[/mp3]
http://cinesamples.com/samples/CineBrass-ROOM.mp3

SURROUND MICS ONLY:
[mp3]http://cinesamples.com/samples/CineBrass-SURROUND.mp3[/mp3]
http://cinesamples.com/samples/CineBrass-SURROUND.mp3

REVERB ONLY:
[mp3]http://cinesamples.com/samples/CineBrass-REVERB.mp3[/mp3]
http://cinesamples.com/samples/CineBrass-REVERB.mp3

Special thanks to Greg Schlaepfer and Blake Robinson for developing the custom software to make this efficiently happen in Kontakt. (Saving us about 3 weeks of tedious re-programming work.)


----------



## noiseboyuk

...deleted post.... problem my end...


----------



## Cinesamples

nm... links working for noisboyuk now...


----------



## Marko Zirkovich

noiseboyuk @ 5/14/2011 said:


> Would love to hear these, but not getting any audio here....



You don't want to hear these - not at this time. Trust me, you wouldn't be able to sleep.
Damn, stupid me, what made me check in here at almost 2:30 a.m. for a quick peek?!?

I'll be dreaming brass tonight, for sure. o=<


----------



## noiseboyuk

Now I've engaged my brain this end (Marko's right, it is late here!), sounds terrific. Those room mics are fantastic on their own, but the full mix adds that tiny extra bit of sheen... I'm guessing that mix is mostly room with a touch of the other two?

You guys must be dead proud of this library. What a sound, and what an elegant and musical way to be able to play it.


----------



## José Herring

Very Nice. Sounds good for the fanfare stuff. Now some brass choir stuff. Let's hear that.

Jose


----------



## Dave Connor

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

I just know I'm going to get one of my questions answered here.


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

Yup Sony = MGM. I think it was a corporate merger or something. It's funny when you go into the stage it smells OLD, and it's dusty. Bad for asthmatics....


----------



## Ed

Here's a question,

What did the engineer and players think of the sampling? What did they think of the techniques you used? Did they get it? Did your engineer understand interval sampling and all that?

etc.


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*



mikebarry @ Sat May 14 said:


> ....when you go into the stage it smells OLD, and it's dusty. Bad for asthmatics....



Good for acoustics! :lol:


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

One thing this exercise shows is the the 'room mics' will literally take center stage and priority. As more detail is needed (close) and ambience (surround/verb) - they'll be used - but from this set of demos - the room mics my favs.

Very well done boys. :wink:


----------



## Dave Connor

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*



mikebarry @ Fri May 13 said:


> Yup Sony = MGM. I think it was a corporate merger or something. It's funny when you go into the stage it smells OLD, and it's dusty. Bad for asthmatics....



Yes many years ago.

An actual question is regarding the trombones on the recent demo: those are all ensemble from what I can see/hear. Would love to hear single bones in the same part or and single bones demos.

Also wondering about straight mutes being available.

Rob, agreed - room sounds great.


----------



## artinro

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

Sounds terrific guys. Lot's of control for us and really like the interface too.

Now get this bad boy over to NI and we'll see if we can't nudge them along to encode this in record time!


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

fantastic! this is sounding better with every demo I hear. It definitely pulls off the fanfares, but I too wouldn't mind hearing some nice brass choir


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*



Dave Connor @ Fri May 13 said:


> An actual question is regarding the trombones on the recent demo: those are all ensemble from what I can see/hear. Would love to hear single bones in the same part or and single bones demos.
> 
> Also wondering about straight mutes being available.
> 
> Rob, agreed - room sounds great.



Hi Dave, sorry missing your question. Right, they are all ensemble trombones. We didn't do the VSL divisi approach on this.

Hope that answers.

Mike P


----------



## nicoroy123

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*



robibla @ Fri May 13 said:


> fantastic! this is sounding better with every demo I hear. It definitely pulls off the fanfares, but I too wouldn't mind hearing some nice brass choir



+1 to all you are saying!


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*



nicoroy123 @ Fri May 13 said:


> robibla @ Fri May 13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> fantastic! this is sounding better with every demo I hear. It definitely pulls off the fanfares, but I too wouldn't mind hearing some nice brass choir
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +1 to all you are saying!
Click to expand...


Well gee, that's the easy stuff.  Okay, will do that for ya'll...


----------



## IvanP

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (First full CineBrass demo added!)*

And a couple of fast, legato, lines, plz!


----------



## marcotronic

Great! Totally love the Room Sound! 

Marco


----------



## Ed

Do some Inception deep low register stuff, I know its kind of boring but I want to see how powerfull it can be :D


----------



## rpaillot

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Multi-mic demo added!)*

Surround mics really have an interesting sound. Especially for the trombones and low horns


----------



## vrocko

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Multi-mic demo added!)*

I have been keeping a close eye on the upcoming KH Concert brass II. They have a couple of horn demo videos up, you guys should check it out. Judging on sound quality alone all I can say is I am even more sold on CineBrass. 

I am sure the KH Brass will be a fine library but I think the guys at Cinesamples have set a high bar for upcoming brass libraries.


----------



## Ed

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Multi-mic demo added!)*



vrocko @ Sun May 15 said:


> I have been keeping a close eye on the upcoming KH Concert brass II. They have a couple of horn demo videos up, you guys should check it out. Judging on sound quality alone all I can say is I am even more sold on CineBrass.
> 
> I am sure the KH Brass will be a fine library but I think the guys at Cinesamples have set a high bar for upcoming brass libraries.



Kirk hunter is not generally considered a great library producer around these parts, (you wouldn't compare his orchestra samples to VSL or EW... unless you're Jay Asher) a better comparison will be Hollywood Brass and if Audiobro (LASS) makes a brass lib.


----------



## Ashermusic

dcoscina @ Sun May 15 said:


> Jay, I own some of Kirk's stuff and from an expressive POV I agree that it's very flexible with a very low footprint. But I just cannot get around the timbre which to my ears doesn't sound as authentic as VSL or Project SAM or CineSamples. As I have mentioned many many times before, I played brass in groups for ages so I'm very accustomed to what it sounds like. Also, I'm in front of an orchestra at least once a month so I make observations based on these experiences. I'm not trying to slag Kirk, who is a terrific guy (excellent customer service!) but I use his stuff more for sketching rather than finished product stuff. Whereas I have used PS, VSL, EW and CineSamples for finished cues.



Well, we will see when thee brass is released, At the moment I can only talk about his strings. Timbre is indeed a big deal and I like his, like HS, do not generally like VSL's, like LASS violas and cellos but do not like the violins and like Sonic Implants.. Horses for courses. "Authentic" is frankly not a criteria that is a factor for me however. IF you listen to the timbre of the strings on my "Zorro" stuff, it does not necessarily sound like another score's strings.

Anyway, this thread is about Cinesamples and I think what they have posted so far sounds terrific, timbre-wise.


----------



## Hannes_F

edited


----------



## Ed

Jay its not just the sound, it just doesn't sound realistic. Kirk makes cheap(er) libraries for a different market, closer to GPO than VSl or EW. You disagree, fine. The the point is that most people here know that CineBrass is not in competition with Kirk Hunter, never was. It was always comparable with Hollywood Brass and if AudioBro comes out with anything.


----------



## Ashermusic

Ed @ Sun May 15 said:


> Jay its not just the sound, it just doesn't sound realistic. Kirk makes cheap libraries, closer to GPO than VSl or EW. You disagree, fine. The the point is that most people here know that CineBrass is not in competition with Kirk Hunter, never was. It was always comparable with Hollywood Brass and if AuioBro comes out with anything.



Ed, respectfully, I can only reiterate that Jeff Beal, David Newman, Al Silvestri, Bruce Miller, Jeff Bova, Charlie Clouser and myself disagree and I think our bona fides are at least as credible as most here.

But people will make up their own minds and whatever they decide they like or do not is fine with me. 

Now can we return this thread to discussing Cinesamples so that we do not get accused of hijacking it?


----------



## noiseboyuk

Ashermusic @ Sun May 15 said:


> Now can we return this thread to discussing Cinesamples so that we do not get accused of hijacking it?



+1

For those not on Facebook, the Mikes asked about how people feel regarding library size. There's a school of thought that says that a huge size matters, and as I keep telling my wife this isn't the case (thought I'd get the obvious joke in so we're done!). Apparently CineBrass is running at 18gb uncompressed - I'm guessing that'll be around 12gb ncw. Not necessarily an instant download, but perfectly reasonable in today's day and age.

I think Cinesamples can be part of a movement that turns all this around. Small is beautiful - if the small is also as wonderful as this library appears. LASS First Chair is 1gb, which is nothing short of astonishing. And never mind the sample-modelled stuff - it shows that you don't need the huge footprint even on conventional sample libraries.

Most of my favourite libraries are pretty light - LASS, Symphobia, HWW etc. There's a real elegance to how these libraries are programmed, they seem focused on playablity. And it's a myth that hard drive space is dirt cheap - well it is if you're gonna take advantage of SSD. So keeping hard drive space low, RAM use low, resource use light - these are all positives, especially combined with only a handful of intelligent patches that can be customised how the player likes them. In contrast with - say - a 300gb library with 3,000 patches, there isn't a single thing I prefer about the latter. Those attributes are burdens to be lived with, not selling points to enthuse about.


----------



## wst3

Ashermusic @ Sun May 15 said:


> Ed, respectfully, I can only reiterate that Jeff Beal, David Newman, Al Silvestri, Bruce Miller, Jeff Bova, Charlie Clouser and myself disagree and I think our bona fides are at least as credible as most here.
> <snip>
> Now can we return this thread to discussing Cinesamples so that we do not get accused of hijacking it?



I don't have the credits or bona fides of any one on that list, but I really like the KH libraries. They do sound different, but I like the sound. I think he has done some terribly clever things with the upcoming brass library, and I can't wait to hear it in all it's glory.

That said, CineBrass is, thus far, both brilliant and gorgeous sounding. I'll end up with both, and probably a couple of others.

I do not think KH is in the same league as GPO, and I think it is an unfair comparison. Price and size wise KH is somewhere between the current big guns and GPO. In terms of usability I find KH Diamond to be frustrating at times, specifically finding the right patch could be easier I think.

And as far as authentic goes, well I think most modern libraries are authentic in that they accurately represent what was recorded. They all sound different, but that's due to the fact that they used different players in different spaces and different equipment etc.

Sorry, I know this is a tangent, but the KH bashing strikes me as unfair, and not within the usual tenor of this community.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Again, this is a CineBrass thread in the Commercial Section. Start your own KH one, or use the Brass Wars thread for that discussion, which is precisely what it's meant for.


----------



## vrocko

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Multi-mic demo added!)*

Sorry guys I should have known better than bringing up KH when jay is lurking around. I was merely trying to point out the quality of CineBrass. Hopefully one of the mikes will post a new video soon to get this thread back on track.


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Multi-mic demo added!)*

How about that Cinebrass?










:wink:


----------



## lux

I'm too lazy to watch the entire thread so i'm asking here. 

I like the Mics merger, but I would like also to have the separate patches for each mic, just in case i want to use one perspective to save memory space. Will it be possible?

Thanks
Luca


----------



## dcoscina

yeah it's a really inspiring sound they have achieved on this. Cannot wait for it! I would like some more demos of the short articulations myself. Love to hear double and triple tonging examples.


----------



## Ed

This is the brass library for me I can feel it... 

Seems like it will really fit my workflow.


----------



## Pzy-Clone

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Multi-mic demo added!)*



noiseboyuk @ Sun May 15 said:


> Ashermusic @ Sun May 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now can we return this thread to discussing Cinesamples so that we do not get accused of hijacking it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +1
> 
> For those not on Facebook, the Mikes asked about how people feel regarding library size. There's a school of thought that says that a huge size matters, and as I keep telling my wife this isn't the case (thought I'd get the obvious joke in so we're done!). Apparently CineBrass is running at 18gb uncompressed - I'm guessing that'll be around 12gb ncw. Not necessarily an instant download, but perfectly reasonable in today's day and age.
Click to expand...


12 GB is perfectly dloadable and that is a pluss, of course.

But personally I don`t really care about the size , as long as there is enough of it to get me where i want...but the majority of those 18 GB`s are most likely "just" different mic positions, leaving each mic position with about 3.6 GB of uncompressed material for all the sections and solos combined..., so it remains to be seen how that affects the library IMO.

For example, the "old" VSL Epic Horns ( full set) is about 3.6 GB of COMPRESSED material, and that is just Section Horns alone, of course ...so i do wonder what compromises were made here ? 

Well i guess we will know soon enough


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Multi-mic demo added!)*

Plenty of magic going on under the hood in this library. And that's the way it is going to continue to go. We are at a point where the libraries need to conform to workflow not visa versa. If we want a 4 bar cresendo, we don't want to load a separate patch - we want to ride the modwheel.

We've also found a sort of magic recipe on how to explain the whole thing to the musicians and get on tape what we need. It's taken a few years to get it but we spend lots of session time communicating what we need. It's the subtleties on the stage that really translate to playablity.


----------



## Ed

YES MIKE


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Multi-mic demo added!)*



CineSamples @ Sun May 15 said:


> Plenty of magic going on under the hood in this library. And that's the way it is going to continue to go. We are at a point where the libraries need to conform to workflow not visa versa. If we want a 4 bar cresendo, we don't want to load a separate patch - we want to ride the modwheel.
> 
> We've also found a sort of magic recipe on how to explain the whole thing to the musicians and get on tape what we need. It's taken a few years to get it but we spend lots of session time communicating what we need. It's the subtleties on the stage that really translate to playablity.




...and the academy award - for* 'a well thought out pre-production of a sample library'* - goes to........... /\~O ................ Cinesamples.

Bravo Mikes.


----------



## gregjazz

lux @ Sun May 15 said:


> I'm too lazy to watch the entire thread so i'm asking here.
> 
> I like the Mics merger, but I would like also to have the separate patches for each mic, just in case i want to use one perspective to save memory space. Will it be possible?
> 
> Thanks
> Luca



Oh don't worry about that--it automatically loads and unloads the appropriate mic signals from memory. That way it will never use more memory than it needs to.


----------



## Cinesamples

Greg is right. Only the mics that are "powered on" with that little green power button will load the samples. By default only the Full Mix loads.


----------



## noiseboyuk

dcoscina @ Sun May 15 said:


> yeah it's a really inspiring sound they have achieved on this. Cannot wait for it! I would like some more demos of the short articulations myself. Love to hear double and triple tonging examples.



The previous demo had those - it's not true double/triple tonguing, just using the shorts, but it works pretty darn well.

Anyone else notice that the requests that are coming in now (only loading 1 mic etc) have all already been addressed?! Looks like you're good to go, Mikes... how about a definitive articulations list on your site? People keep asking that one, and I guess it's quite a bit of trawling in different places to find info.


----------



## Cinesamples

Hey guy, 

Yeah, working on the site now. This thread is obscenely long now... (if i'm not mistaken, I think this breaks a VI-Control record for most thread views?)
We'll put all the info here: http://cinesamples.com/products/cinebrass


----------



## Simon Ravn

CineSamples @ Mon May 16 said:


> Hey guy,
> 
> Yeah, working on the site now. This thread is obscenely long now... (if i'm not mistaken, I think this breaks a VI-Control record for most thread views?)
> We'll put all the info here: http://cinesamples.com/products/cinebrass



Most importantly, we need to know "when" and "how much" 8)


----------



## jamwerks

Simon Ravn @ Mon May 16 said:


> ...and "how much" 8)



So we can start saving... o-[][]-o


----------



## Theseus

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Multi-mic demo added!)*

Ok, here's a tricky one... will the solo trumpet be able to pull off something like that Trumpet 3 WIP demo from Spitfire :

http://www.spitfireaudio.com/demos


----------



## Mike Connelly

CineSamples @ Sun May 15 said:


> Plenty of magic going on under the hood in this library. And that's the way it is going to continue to go. We are at a point where the libraries need to conform to workflow not visa versa. If we want a 4 bar cresendo, we don't want to load a separate patch - we want to ride the modwheel.



A great philosophy, and way overdue. Personally I'm tired of developers trying a brute force method that ends up with unwieldy libraries and diminishing returns.



noiseboyuk @ Mon May 16 said:


> The previous demo had those - it's not true double/triple tonguing, just using the shorts, but it works pretty darn well.



I'd say it sounds very good, but you can tell it's not real double/triple tonguing. It's probably possible to do the real thing with samples with recordings of those and some very clever programming, maybe down the road if there's a CB2 expansion? In the meantime the next best solution to a fully playable patch is probably a repetition patch recorded at different tempos and timestretched.

At this point my main curiosity (other then price) is mutes, which I haven't seen addressed by the CS guys.


----------



## Ed

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Multi-mic demo added!)*



Theseus @ Mon May 16 said:


> Ok, here's a tricky one... will the solo trumpet be able to pull off something like that Trumpet 3 WIP demo from Spitfire :
> 
> http://www.spitfireaudio.com/demos



What about the James Bond demo as well?

http://www.spitfireaudio.com/were-creat ... #more-1274


----------



## Mike Connelly

I have to say, I love the spitfire stuff and they have some amazing demos...those two trumpet demos have parts that sound fantastic but also aspects that are pretty wonky. Of course they are early versions so hopefully they'll perfect them, but we'll have to see.


----------



## Andy B

Mike Connelly @ Mon May 16 said:


> I have to say, I love the spitfire stuff and they have some amazing demos...those two trumpet demos have parts that sound fantastic but also aspects that are pretty wonky. Of course they are early versions so hopefully they'll perfect them, but we'll have to see.



I wouldn't pay too much attention to those demos as most of them weren't actually meant for public consumption as the patch was in very much a work in progress stage. :D The Bond theme was just a bit of fun because of the Derek Watkins connection - we weren't going for that sound in particular.

Anyway, don't want to derail the thread.

Thanks,

Andy.


----------



## Ed

Mike Connelly @ Mon May 16 said:


> I have to say, I love the spitfire stuff and they have some amazing demos...those two trumpet demos have parts that sound fantastic but also aspects that are pretty wonky. Of course they are early versions so hopefully they'll perfect them, but we'll have to see.



True, but would be nice if CS could beat those demos, if its a work in progress should be easier right? :D Even if it can't I know I still want it, it would just be cool.


----------



## Tino Danielzik

Hey there,

I'm really excited about CineBrass. The solo patches sound awesome. I would like to know how CB handles fast trombone movements like Alan Silvestri used them in his incredible action cues. 

Regards,
Tino


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Multi-mic demo added!)*

I guess it's good for all parties involved that the US dollar is the weakest it's been in our lifetimes. Will make this even more friendly.


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Multi-mic demo added!)*

Stop teasing me Mike. o=< I've pretty much made this thread my homepage, and I think I'm starting to get the shakes as I haven't had a new demo or snippet of information for a few days now. :wink: lol.


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Multi-mic demo added!)*

Here it is! The official CineBrass screencast! This is a complete run-through of all the patches and their functionality. It's a long one, so we hope you stick through the whole thing.


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Multi-mic demo added!)*

OK, so i'm not even all the way through the video yet, but I had to stop to say that I was really impressed with the solo horn patch playing 4 notes with polyphonic legato. It didn't sound like all the notes were coming from the exact same stereo position, sounds nice and open. Who needs divisi eh!! Brilliant job guys.


----------



## David Story

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Multi-mic demo added!)*

Beautiful demo, great looking library. I must play it to know for sure, but it sounds like you made the ideal choice of team. Hats off to Dennis, this is the way brass is supposed to sound. At least for most of my work. Programing looks user friendly, easy to control. The legato sounds smooth, without fussing. I'd like to hear more of the trombones, that Cimbasso sustain is excellent. Wonderful duets in trumpet, horn, trombone/tuba. 
I think that the standout features are the tone, especially the morphing crossfades, and legato. Hope I can afford it for my July project.
Thanks!


----------



## Pochflyboy

This looks like it is gonna be a workflow time saver!!! Can always count on the Mikes for that.

-Joe


----------



## Tino Danielzik

Really great sound, awesome library!!! Great work Mikes! 
The only thing I'm really missing is a Solo Trombone True Legato Patch. But everything else is great!


----------



## eschroder

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Fantastic guys... seriously. Not only great sounding, but will provide such great work flow. Thanks!


----------



## dfhagai

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Amazing patches.....
Looks like everything I ever wanted....
WANT IT NOW!!!


----------



## james7275

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Sounds damn good!... Now if you don't mind, I've got to watch it again.


----------



## José Herring

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Multi-mic demo added!)*



CineSamples @ Tue May 17 said:


> Here it is! The official CineBrass screencast! This is a complete run-through of all the patches and their functionality. It's a long one, so we hope you stick through the whole thing.




Mike you have my full support! You've done something that I've been mentioning for years as the right course for developers. Personally I have found it really disingenuous of developers that claim full copy right protection for their products as "sound recordings" but yet never even bothered to go union or to compensate the musicians for said recordings and sessions as would be done on any other sound recording.

I'm really over joyed that you chose the path you did and respected all the rights of all the people involved in your session.

My hats off. And, you've really earned my purchase after release. 

Well done!


----------



## Hannes_F

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Love the programming, the recording and mic positions, the sound of course and last not least the fact that you tried to make this a sustainable product by going the union way.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Another vote firmly in the "terrific" camp.

OK, a few more thoughts and questions. First, the AFM thing - I can't believe no-one has done this before! It makes so much sense to have a percentage of sales go to the performers, just as with a commercial album. This has got to be a terrific way forward for the industry, and a way of getting the absolute best players on board... in a sense the sample can be thought of as a new delivery medium and therefore revenue stream, which is far less threatening than "record this and you'll never get a paycheck again". So huge kudos for that.

Next - I've only just thought of this, and for me it might be quite important. I don't really get on well with the sustain pedal, mainly cos it's seemingly forever in the wrong mode when I restart from daw / change patches etc. So I guess I'd be leaning towards a keyswitch for that, and then your nice velocity-based layering for the shorts (2 keyswitches I can happily cope with, more than that gets flaky!). BUT I thought... ahhhh..... can I actually do that? It needs a double condition, doesn't it? So an 1/8th note would need to be, say, CO AND velocity 0-79. I know there's only a limited amount of room on that lovely interface, but is there a way that there can be some configuration like this?

Third, this one might well already be there - is it possible to control the switch from mono to poly legato by a cc / keyswitch?

Fourth, it is a bit of shame that there's no solo bone / tuba / cimbasso... can we start adding a wishlist for an expansion further down the line? Mine at the moment goes - remaining solo legatos, sampled double/triple tonguing with CITE, falls and doits. NONE of these are dealbreakers by any means, but it would make it a little more "ultimate brass library".

But apart from the usual price and date questions, that's about it! Again, congratulations on such a well conceived and implemented product, and thanks for taking us with you along the way. It deserves to be HUGE.

EDIT - two more for the mythical expansion - stops and mutes.


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Sounds great!!

Love the different mic positions and Bricasti channel. The mod wheel crescendi are great (that’s how we’d all like to work!). I’ve always been a keyswitch guy, but the inverted velocity mode looks like a winner for me.

As is, it will cover a lot of ground, but for those of us doing also "romantic" stuff, the lack of sordino, stopped, blarred, etc. in the pallet will often stop us in our shoes.

Hopefully you guys will do a second library to "complete" the articulations !
o-[][]-o


----------



## Pedro Camacho

Path to perfection:

Please make a patch where you get the full ensemble if you just play one note and if you play 2 notes the ensemble transforms into 2 solo instruments (in case of trumpets) or 2 groups of 2 horns in case of horns.


----------



## Justus

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Thanks, Mikes. That's epic ...ooops.

@Pedro: I don't think that is possible right now.


----------



## IvanP

Pedro Camacho @ Wed May 18 said:


> Path to perfection:
> 
> Please make a patch where you get the full ensemble if you just play one note and if you play 2 notes the ensemble transforms into 2 solo instruments (in case of trumpets) or 2 groups of 2 horns in case of horns.



Exactly!

@ Justus: Doesn't LASS does that?


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

LASS's 'ensemble' is actually made up of the individual divisi sections in the first place though, so it simply splits when more than 1 note is played. CineBrass would have to swap from 2 totally different patches.


----------



## Justus

IvanP @ Wed May 18 said:


> Pedro Camacho @ Wed May 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Path to perfection:
> 
> Please make a patch where you get the full ensemble if you just play one note and if you play 2 notes the ensemble transforms into 2 solo instruments (in case of trumpets) or 2 groups of 2 horns in case of horns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> @ Justus: Doesn't LASS does that?
Click to expand...



Yes, but LASS was recorded this way. I believe that is a different approach than CineBrass.


----------



## Polarity

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Awesome!!
I'm sold... :D


----------



## Windle

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Ok, impressive video but, and I don't want to rain on a parade here, did anyone else get a bit twitchy with the intonation still?

I know they said they would/have worked on it but I didn't hear much difference in the trumpets when Indiana Jones was played. And there were many others throughout the demonstration that still sounded a bit off.

Am I over sensitive to this stuff or just have unreasonably high expectations?

W.

ps another vote for being able to change Mono/Poly Legato mode via a keyswitch (however old skool that is considered to be!)


----------



## Justus

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



Windle @ Wed May 18 said:


> did anyone else get a bit twitchy with the intonation still?



I think regarding tuning we all are a bit spoiled by VSL, aren't we?


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

tuning was fine to me


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



robibla @ Wed May 18 said:


> tuning was fine to me



I only noticed it in one of the low patches (around 15'48 there's a howler) otherwise it sounded absolutely fine to me. Someone posted a clip of the LSO brass section playing alfresco recently and my first thought was "God they'd get MASSACRED on this board!"


----------



## Tino Danielzik

The only thing I complain about this video demonstration is that most of the time Mike Patti pushed the dynamics high up. I watched the video on my computer with headphones, damned, that was loud!!! :D


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Is Native Instruments in Berlin? How much is a ticket?


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

According to AP, Ban Ki-Moon reported told Angela Merkel this morning that, "CineBrass must be released immediately!"


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Well, it should just be about 3 weeks then.

I think by German law, pricing must be announced before NI can start preparing. :lol: 

Let us know the full amount asap, so we can start calculating the special 35% discount introductory offer. :mrgreen:


----------



## Hannes_F

Tuning? That is what you have a modwheel for, no?


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

You mean Pitchbend wheel, right Hannes?


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

VI Control - group buy :idea:


----------



## Hannes_F

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed May 18 said:


> You mean Pitchbend wheel, right Hannes?



Yep, Pitchwheel (d'oh! :D ).


----------



## schatzus

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Another fantastic Cinesamples "must have". The Union deal is just sweet icing on the cake. Hat's off to the Mikes for always doing their best to do it right.



> Thanks, Mikes. That's epic ...ooops.



Seize Him! :wink:


----------



## Mr. Anxiety

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Sounds amazing........great work! Should be very useful.

I need to +1 on the request for solo bone ..... 2 hrns......... 2 trpts for all divisi writing.

playing 3 part horn parts on a 6 horn patch will be a bit much, right?

Same with the bones patch............

Would be great to know what your thoughts are about this going forward please.


Thanks....... Bravo!

Mr A


----------



## Mike Connelly

What is there sounds incredible, and the user interface and customizablity is second to none, but it makes me want an expansion pack already.

Are there really no short notes on the solo trumpet and horn? That seems like the biggest omission and I can't figure out the reasoning behind it. And no solo trombone at all, or any legato low brass. Also I assume no mutes for anything either.

At this point this still seems like it's probably a must have based on the sound and programming, but it would be great to get word that the library will be expanded in the future if it does well.


----------



## Mr. Anxiety

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Ah yes....

+1 Mutes!


----------



## noiseboyuk

I think when you see the library as a whole, its much clearer what the intent of it is. In this version at least, it's not intended to be the last word in complete brass libraries (if I may be so bold). It's meant to cover the most common stuff, be incredibly easy to use and sound kick ass. And I think it'll do those things perfectly.

I guess that's the thinking behind the promised price being competitive. It's obviously a different product from HWW, but perhaps it shares a little DNA - killer sound, very easy to use, usually perfect for the job... but can't necessarily do EVERY job. That feels like CineBrass too, only of course the focus of articulations is purposely different.


----------



## Stephen Baysted

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



Windle @ Wed May 18 said:


> Ok, impressive video but, and I don't want to rain on a parade here, did anyone else get a bit twitchy with the intonation still?
> 
> I know they said they would/have worked on it but I didn't hear much difference in the trumpets when Indiana Jones was played. And there were many others throughout the demonstration that still sounded a bit off.
> 
> Am I over sensitive to this stuff or just have unreasonably high expectations?
> 
> W.
> 
> ps another vote for being able to change Mono/Poly Legato mode via a keyswitch (however old skool that is considered to be!)




Like woodwind, brass instruments are not constructed or 'tuned' in 12TET - so there will be and there are thankfully intonational variances. Much more realistic that way.


----------



## Dave Connor

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Sounds really great!

I hope there are separate tuba and bass trombone patches since they play separately all the time as I'm sure you know.


----------



## dcoscina

I wonder if the Mike's could tell us if this library will be closer in price to Voxos as compared to CineWoodwinds. I'm thinking it will given the number of patches/samples and time it's taken to develop.


----------



## Windle

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



Rousseau @ Wed May 18 said:


> Like woodwind, brass instruments are not constructed or 'tuned' in 12TET - so there will be and there are thankfully intonational variances. Much more realistic that way.



I know the theory but I also know when I hear something that rubs a little too much.

So you thought that the Indiana Jones he played in the video was a master take standard?


----------



## Pedro Camacho

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



Rob Elliott @ Wed May 18 said:


> VI Control - group buy :idea:



pre-release special price?


----------



## Patrick de Caumette

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

It's gonna be very hard to wait for HB to be released before pulling the trigger on this one... o=?


----------



## Mike Connelly

noiseboyuk @ Wed May 18 said:


> I think when you see the library as a whole, its much clearer what the intent of it is. In this version at least, it's not intended to be the last word in complete brass libraries (if I may be so bold). It's meant to cover the most common stuff, be incredibly easy to use and sound kick ass. And I think it'll do those things perfectly.
> 
> I guess that's the thinking behind the promised price being competitive. It's obviously a different product from HWW, but perhaps it shares a little DNA - killer sound, very easy to use, usually perfect for the job... but can't necessarily do EVERY job. That feels like CineBrass too, only of course the focus of articulations is purposely different.



That's the impression I got too, and for the most part it should be extremely useful and cover many situations. But it would be great to get an idea of what the CS guys see as the future of the library - is this pretty much it and they're moving on to other instruments, or how strong is the possibility that we'd see a CB2 and what kind of timeframe?

I'd love to see an approach like LASS is taking with the addition of sordinos and more new content after that...only with a much much shorter release window.


----------



## dcoscina

Yes Patrick, I agree. Learning from previous purchase mistakes though, I will wait to assess both libraries before pulling the trigger. For ease of use in pure composing mode, CineBrass seems to be the clear winner. Love the tone too. I already have Dimension Brass so I don't need a be-all end-all brass lib, just something with more guts to the fundamental sections


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

If the launch of this library is a success (the doe starts rolling in) I could see them immediately doing a part II (with all the stuff requested) to take this from "cinematic" to "do everything".


----------



## Cinesamples

If you guys want to send a friendly email to NI to get them to encode CineBrass in a timely manner, that's cool with us.


----------



## Pochflyboy

I think it is clear at this point that HB and CB are two very different products. Both brass but I think most similarities will end there..... CB is gonna be a workflow life saver!

_joe


----------



## Mike Connelly

How long has it been in their hands?


----------



## Rob Elliott

CineSamples @ Wed May 18 said:


> If you guys want to send a friendly email to NI to get them to encode CineBrass in a timely manner, that's cool with us.




Does it have to be 'friendly' o


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Email, schmeemail! They're on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NIPSN

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

And the Kontakt forum: http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... y.php?f=33


----------



## KMuzzey

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

I AM SCREAMING. THIS IS SO AWESO <faint>


----------



## Patrick de Caumette

Rob Elliott @ Wed May 18 said:


> CineSamples @ Wed May 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you guys want to send a friendly email to NI to get them to encode CineBrass in a timely manner, that's cool with us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does it have to be 'friendly' o
Click to expand...


:mrgreen:


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

o=< o=< o=< o=< o=< o=<


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

you guys are cracking us up


----------



## noiseboyuk

Good Mikes, I know you must be busybusybusy, but quite keen to get a coupla answers on my p3 post (third down from the top I think). The mapping issue I raise there is my only major concern at this point I think.

PS - has it actually gone to NI yet?


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

yes it is at NI 

guy i didn't see your other questions up there. I will have to check out later


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



KMuzzey @ Wed May 18 said:


> I AM SCREAMING. THIS IS SO AWESO <faint>




wow - I actually saw you 'faint'. ROFL. Just remember - IT'S ONLY A LIBRAR <faint>


----------



## Vision

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Damn bro.. pre-ordered. 

I was playing around with VI-pro for comparisons sake.. honestly, to see if buying Cinebrass would be redundant. As a former French Horn Player, these are some of the most impressive horns I've heard in a sample library in quite some time.. not to mention the other instruments. I can see Cinebrass being very inspiring and intuitive for me. Running on the best player on the market IMO. Killer. 

Didn't event finish watching the movie.. Let me get back to it. Definitely got my attention and my purchase guys. Great work.


----------



## madbulk

This is just lovely.

I don't think Mike meant it this way at all, but when he showed the legato vol slider and wrapped it saying, "so that's that." I heard, "now shut up." I LOL'd.

Y'know, Mikes, I don't usually go in for "buying libraries," preferring to have my name drawn from a hat... that sort of vibe... 

But this looks very kool indeed. Congrats.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



Vision @ Wed May 18 said:


> Damn bro.. pre-ordered.



Hey, how d'ya do that?! And how much did you pay?!!!


----------



## Vision

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



noiseboyuk @ Wed May 18 said:


> Vision @ Wed May 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn bro.. pre-ordered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, how d'ya do that?! And how much did you pay?!!!
Click to expand...


It's all in my mind bro. I'm just imagining.. awaiting the day that I click that pre-order button. I'll probably plan on wearing a silk Hugh Hefner style bathrobe, sipping a 1971 chardonnay as I sit in the studio.. waiting. I just said that out loud didn't I..


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

he's one of dem rich guys...money is no object!


----------



## Vision

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



Craig Sharmat @ Wed May 18 said:


> he's one of dem rich guys...money is no object!



HAH. I wish.. Mr. Project Prague.  

Btw Craig, I had Tim E (from AMW days) come over last sunday. Haven't seen the guy in like 10 years.


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Ah yes, '71 was THE year for Chardonnays, and 2011 will be remembered for it’s brass !!


----------



## Vision

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Mike after playing excerpt from Superman.. the pause at 20:05-20:09.

"..heh.. that'sKindaKool". :lol:


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

I pre-ordered CineMutes.


----------



## dogforester

Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed May 18 said:


> I pre-ordered CineMutes.


Yes but they can't tell you when it will be released. /\~O


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



Pedro Camacho @ Wed May 18 said:


> Path to perfection:
> 
> Please make a patch where you get the full ensemble if you just play one note and if you play 2 notes the ensemble transforms into 2 solo instruments (in case of trumpets) or 2 groups of 2 horns in case of horns.





Justus @ Wed May 18 said:


> @Pedro: I don't think that is possible right now.



Should be, if you make the div/non-div sensitive to velocity. So, you would have, say, CB_FRH_nondiv_A_mf play from 0 - 79, and then CB_FRH_div_A_mf play from 80 - 127. Load the FR Horn patch, play A at a velocity of 79 or less, and get the full section. Play at 80 or above, and get the divisi. Does that make sense?


----------



## sevaels

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

You gotta love when the developer seems as giddy as the consumer.

This is so much fun to watch :D 

Massive congrats to M&M you guys deserve HUGE sales on this one.

o-[][]-o


----------



## bwherry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

As others, I'm super duper excited for this release. It sounds great!

Couple of questions for the Mikes (or others that may know):

1. How many of each of the shorts were recorded (for round robins)? Not that this will affect my purchase decision (I'm totally sold!) - just curious... I'd love to see/hear a "naked" example of a bunch of fast repetitions on the same note at the same velocity. Not necessarily crazy fast triple tonguing stuff, but say a stream of 16th notes at 120-140bpm.

2. With the "<section> Articulations" patches in the velocity map mode, how would you execute a sforzando piano crescendo (subito fortepiano, sfp, etc.)? So a very strong attack, then quickly get very soft, then crescendo back to forte. With the brass libraries I have the attacks of the staccatos and marcatos are much nicer (or "forceful") sounding than the attacks of the sustains, plus doing fast mod wheel dips tends to sound not-so-great. So what I've done in the past is create custom instruments with both staccato and sustain (and/or short marcato and sustain) groups. Start with mod wheel down to whatever "low point" is desired then the note on velocity will produce the desired attack (staccato or marcato) and then disappear as the mod wheel can be brought up for the crescendo (on the sustain). Works really well. How would you do that in CineBrass? I guess if the morphing dealio on the sustains produces nice-sounding results on fast dips and if the attacks of the sustains at high CC1 values is equally as forceful/good sounding as the attacks of the high-velocity shorts this is a no brainer. But I have a hunch the attacks of the shorts will be more forceful/impactful... So one might want the initial attack to be a 1/4 note short, then switch to the sustain for the crescendo. But doing that would be tricky because the mod wheel is controlling all the dynamics (for the short and the sustain). Would the mod wheel dip after the attack affect the initial 1/4 note short? And you'd need two notes (one for the initial attack short and one for the sustain), right? I just wanted to mention this case and see how you'd approach it...

Thanks!

Brian


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

[quote:f1e62333b4="bwherry @ Wed May 18, 2011 4:36 pm"]As others, I'm super duper excited for this release. It sounds great!

Couple of questions for the Mikes (or others that may know):

1. How many of each of the shorts were recorded (for round robins)? Not that this will affect my purchase decision (I'm totally sold!) - just curious... I'd love to see/hear a "naked" example of a bunch of fast repetitions on the same note at the same velocity. Not necessarily crazy fast triple tonguing stuff, but say a stream of 16th notes at 120-140bpm.

2. With the "<section> Articulations" patches in the velocity map mode, how would you execute a sforzando piano crescendo (subito fortepiano, sfp, etc.)? So a very strong attack, then quickly get very soft, then crescendo back to forte. With the brass libraries I have the attacks of the staccatos and marcatos are much nicer (or "forceful") sounding than the attacks of the sustains, plus doing fast mod wheel dips tends to sound not-so-great. So what I've done in the past is create custom instruments with both staccato and sustain (and/or short marcato and sustain) groups. Start with mod wheel down to whatever "low point" is desired then the note on velocity will produce the desired attack (staccato or marcato) and then disappear as the mod wheel can be brought up for the crescendo (on the sustain). Works really well. How would you do that in CineBrass? I guess if the morphinò 
   ÈìE 
   ÈýK 
   Èýi 
   É$ 
   ÉŠ 
   É!þ 
   É" 
   É9Ú 
   É: 
   É 
   É:< 
   É;í 
   É<D 
   ÉZ¥ 
   ÉZî 
   ÉaÉ 
   Éañ 
   Év- 
   Év¢ 
   É½á 
   É¾ 
   Éì€ 
   ÉìŽ 
   Éó¹ 
   ÉóÞ 
   ÉûV 
   Éû“ 
   ÉþŠ 
   Éþµ 
   ÊL 
   Êd 
   Ê‡ 
   Ê¯ 
   Ê3 
   ÊB 
   Ê. 
   Ê.T 
   Ê@Ï 
   ÊA 
   ÊB  
   ÊB' 
   ÊIÒ 
   ÊJ% 
   Ê[„ 
   Ê[³ 
   ÊxQ 
   Êxr 
   Ê“™ 
   Ê“´ 
   Ê”V 
   Ê”} 
   ÊÃ 
   ÊÃ= 
   ÊÄA 
   ÊÄ™ 
   ÊËÓ 
   ÊÌl 
   Êá7 
   ÊáN 
   Êáœ 
   Êáº 
   ÊåY 
   Êåˆ 
   Êæ' 
   ÊæD 
   ÊìÌ 
   Êí9 
   ÊîÎ 
   ÊïW 
   Êüœ 
   Êü° 
   Êý„ 
   Êþ 
   Êþå 
   Êÿ¢ 
   Ë ! 
   Ë D 
   Ë> 
   Ëc 
   Ë$ 
   Ë° 
   ËY 
   Ë 4 
   Ë$} 
   Ë$¹ 
   Ë)‚ 
   Ë*L 
   ËJê 
   ËK1 
   Ë^  
   Ë^	 
   Ëe_ 
   ËeÊ 
   Ëf‰ 
   Ëfš 
   ËyQ 
   Ëy 
   Ëø 
   Ë€— 
   Ë ¼ 
   Ë¡™ 
   Ë¨b 
   Ë¨t 
   Ë°ž 
   Ë°ü 
   Ë¶ú 
   Ë·e 
   Ë»Ð 
   Ë¼ 
   Ë¿ô 
   ËÀ+ 
   ËÀ¤              ò 
   ËÆ 
   ËÆ9 
   ËÙ« 
   ËÙà 
   ËÚ 
   ËÚ^ 
   ËÞ7 
   ËÞŠ 
   ËàÑ 
   ËàÖ 
   Ëâœ 
   Ëâ§ 
   Ëåž 
   Ëå¬ 
   Ëçr 
   Ëç„


----------



## lydianchromaticconcept

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

2 QUESTIONS:
- no "Articulations" patch for solo instruments?
- no "True Legato" patch for Solo Tbn?


----------



## IFM

I had to clean the puddle of drool after watching the patch video...I CAN'T WAIT! Well done!!!


----------



## Mike Greene

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

I like this a lot! The sound is fantastic, and I like that it's a manageable number of patches. (I've never been a fan of a zillion folders and articulations that are barely different from one another.) Color me impressed. 8)


----------



## marcotronic

I´ve never been looking forward to a library as much as to CineBrass!!!

Marco


----------



## noiseboyuk

Sorry to prod again, Mikes! Here's the relevant questions (the rest was just gushing praise and mulling on future expansions):



noiseboyuk @ Wed May 18 said:


> Next - I've only just thought of this, and for me it might be quite important. I don't really get on well with the sustain pedal, mainly cos it's seemingly forever in the wrong mode when I restart from daw / change patches etc. So I guess I'd be leaning towards a keyswitch for that, and then your nice velocity-based layering for the shorts (2 keyswitches I can happily cope with, more than that gets flaky!). BUT I thought... ahhhh..... can I actually do that? It needs a double condition, doesn't it? So an 1/8th note would need to be, say, CO AND velocity 0-79. I know there's only a limited amount of room on that lovely interface, but is there a way that there can be some configuration like this?
> 
> Third, this one might well already be there - is it possible to control the switch from mono to poly legato by a cc / keyswitch?


----------



## Cinesamples

Yes. Everything is editable in the custom map.


----------



## noiseboyuk

CineSamples @ Thu May 19 said:


> Yes. Everything is editable in the custom map.



Great stuff, thanks. Couldn't see how you'd get 2 conditions going at once, but I should never have doubted Greg!


----------



## Christian Marcussen

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Sounds really good. 

I think all you guys have raised the price of the library with a few 100 bucks with all your praise >8o


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



Christian Marcussen @ Thu May 19 said:


> Sounds really good.
> 
> I think all you guys have raised the price of the library with a few 100 bucks with all your praise >8o




Not if 300 of us group buy..... 0oD


----------



## Pedro Camacho

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed May 18 said:


> Email, schmeemail! They're on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NIPSN



done


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

hahaha same here, the more the merrier


----------



## windshore

When can we pre-order Cinebrass Plus with mutes and more efx?


----------



## marcotronic

windshore @ Thu May 19 said:


> When can we pre-order Cinebrass Plus with mutes and more efx?



Hopefully after CineWINDS 

Marco


----------



## Mike Connelly

marcotronic @ Thu May 19 said:


> windshore @ Thu May 19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When can we pre-order Cinebrass Plus with mutes and more efx?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully after CineWINDS
Click to expand...


Personally I'd vote for before CW but I'd take it either way as long as it's not a huge amount of time.
 
With a brass expansion that adds things like mutes, solo shorts, and solo bone and tuba, that things like the charts and figuring out how the patches work are already done.

And while I'd love to see mutes on everything and a bit more full section stuff, they could get a lot of bang for their buck bringing in just four players to get missing solo articulations and mutes on solo instruments (and with mutes you can probably get by without legato and with fewer lengths of articulations).


----------



## Peter Alexander

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

A pre-review consideration:

http://www.professionalorchestration.co ... rom-a-vid/


----------



## Ed

I really want / need it right now. Any idea of a release date?


----------



## marcotronic

You may give us a price already while it´s at NI... 

Thanks!!! 

Marco


----------



## tumeninote

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Excellent guys! Hope I can afford this...


----------



## eschroder

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

I know everybody keeps bugging you guys about the price... but since tomorrow is the END of the world... you should just tell us before we all blow up =]


----------



## lux

i think i have an idea


----------



## Blackster

Ed @ Fri May 20 said:


> I really want / need it right now.



I can't even remember how often you've posted this sentence here on the forum :wink:


----------



## noiseboyuk

Blackster @ Sat May 21 said:


> I can't even remember how often you've posted this sentence here on the forum :wink:



Ha ha! And of course they can't post a date cos their in the hands of NI. From all I've read, this process is pretty variable - could take 3 weeks or 6. I'm guessing that NKI updates can still be happening while this goes on, this is just the coding for the library itself and the samples. Anyway, the point is I strongly suspect CS want to release as soon as they can, so it's counterproductive to post a date - either they'll miss it or might want to release early.


----------



## Tino Danielzik

I don't know if this question has been asked before but does anyone know if CineBrass will be available for download and as a boxed version?


----------



## lux

usually all the products by Cinesamples are downloadble and boxed so this one shouldnt be any different.


----------



## Tino Danielzik

lux @ Sat May 21 said:


> usually all the products by Cinesamples are downloadble and boxed so this one shouldnt be any different.



Just Hollywoodwinds and Voxos are available as boxed versions, not all products.


----------



## Cinesamples

CineBrass will be download only. With it being an efficient size, and judging by majority of customer requests, this seems to be the way to go.

How are the NI posts/emails going?


----------



## Rob Elliott

CineSamples @ Sat May 21 said:


> CineBrass will be download only. With it being an efficient size, and judging by majority of customer requests, this seems to be the way to go.
> 
> How are the NI posts/emails going?




Going well. I just made some death threats - pending a speedy release - and then signed Craig Sharmat's name. :twisted:


----------



## noiseboyuk

Rob Elliott @ Sat May 21 said:


> Going well. I just made some death threats - pending a speedy release - and then signed Craig Sharmat's name. :twisted:



Rob, looking at your nice smiling picture and reading that post freaks me out.... >8o


----------



## Rob Elliott

noiseboyuk @ Sat May 21 said:


> Rob Elliott @ Sat May 21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Going well. I just made some death threats - pending a speedy release - and then signed Craig Sharmat's name. :twisted:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rob, looking at your nice smiling picture and reading that post freaks me out.... >8o
Click to expand...



Do you want the library or not? Besides, it wasn't me, it was Craig. He's just really unstable. I wouldn't be NI right now with Sharmat lurking.... o


----------



## lux

Rob Elliott @ Sat May 21 said:


> CineSamples @ Sat May 21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> CineBrass will be download only. With it being an efficient size, and judging by majority of customer requests, this seems to be the way to go.
> 
> How are the NI posts/emails going?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Going well. I just made some death threats - pending a speedy release - and then signed Craig Sharmat's name. :twisted:
Click to expand...


I did that as well


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

I will get on NI in a few here but first I am off to to kill my dog.


----------



## Jack Weaver

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Sorry to hear that, Craig.

.


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

jack ...it was joke...just my unstable self.


----------



## lux

aaawww, i must confess i too was 50/50 in doubt about it being a joke...

And yes you are unstable. Be aware!


----------



## Cinesamples

Some stats here: CineBrass has 16,253 samples, at a staggeringly low 8.64GB after NCW compression. Sweet!


----------



## lux

and a lovely price of....? of....?


----------



## Ryan Scully

CineSamples @ Sat May 21 said:


> Some stats here: CineBrass has 16,253 samples, at a staggeringly low 8.64GB after NCW compression. Sweet!





That is awesome news!! I have cash on reserve and am ready to throw down as soon as it's ready - cant wait!!


----------



## Cinesamples

Price announced when we release. Stop ASKING!


----------



## lux

never


----------



## Marko Zirkovich

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

After 17 pages for this thread I think that someone finally needs to ask the all important question:

How much is this library going to cost? 0oD


----------



## Cinesamples

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Mike I thought we agreed on Donationware?


----------



## Udo

CineSamples @ Sun May 22 said:


> Some stats here: CineBrass has 16,253 samples, at a staggeringly low 8.64GB after NCW compression. Sweet!


That's less than half the Voxos size, so it should cost well under $400, e.g. $349


----------



## Melvin Frohike

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



Marko Zirkovich @ Sat May 21 said:


> After 17 pages for this thread I think that someone finally needs to ask the all important question:
> 
> How much is this library going to cost? 0oD


That's a valid question. But why is no one asking the REALLY important question? What will be the price of Cinebrass?


----------



## Marko Zirkovich

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



mikebarry @ 5/21/2011 said:


> Mike I thought we agreed on Donationware?



Hehe, the good cop/bad cop routine in action... /\~O


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

OK guys - they said to stop asking about price. So stop asking about Price. Its rude to ask so many times about PRICE. The PRICE will be known soon enough. I am hoping the PRICE will be competitive. I think the PRICE will be competitive. Don't you guys think the PRICE will be competitive?


(btw - NI's internal police knows it was me that sent the threats for a quick release. Gotta lay low for now - at least until the PRICE is announced.)

(o)


----------



## FireGS

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Call me PRICE. Some PRICES ago -- never mind how long PRICEely -- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to PRICE me on shore, I thought I would PRICE about a little and see the PRICE part of the PRICE. It is a way I have of driving off the PRICE, and regulating the PRICE. 

s'a good book. PRICE?


----------



## FireGS

To PRICE, or not to PRICE: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The PRICE and PRICE of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of PRICE,
And by opposing end them? To PRICE: PRICE;
No more; and by a PRICE to say we end
The PRICE and the thousand natural shocks
That PRICE is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd.

Bored. I'll stop now. Price? :(


----------



## Melvin Frohike

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Alright, alright. I'll stop asking about the price.

So Cinesamples, what will you be charging for the use of this sample library?


----------



## tabulius

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Sorry, didn't read the full 18 pages so I don't know if this is asked before but:

I would love to have the awesome legatos and short articulations in one patch. Now in basic articulations with sustain pedal you'll get sustains. Is there possibility to have legatos with sustain pedal? This could be really great patch to play melodies and switch between legatos, staccatos, marcatos in the fly. Mod wheel would control the dynamics of course. Or does the kontakt scripting limit this someway?

Looking forward to see and hear more of the CB library!


----------



## bwherry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

So I was making some adjustments to my template yesterday, mainly making tweaks to the Kontakt outputs and sends from the sampler machine back to the DAW. As I was going through each instrument (bank) checking that instrument sections were routed properly, I did a simple sustained note mod wheel crescendo from mp to fff in the trumpets. And I was reminded why I always cover up the trumpets by doubling with the first violins and flutes. So artificial/phasey-sounding. :( (and this is from quite a highly-regarded brass library - that shall remain nameless)

I am SO looking forward to CineBrass and that sweet morphing action! o=? 

Brian


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



bwherry @ Mon May 23 said:


> So I was making some adjustments to my template yesterday, mainly making tweaks to the Kontakt outputs and sends from the sampler machine back to the DAW. As I was going through each instrument (bank) checking that instrument sections were routed properly, I did a simple sustained note mod wheel crescendo from mp to fff in the trumpets. And I was reminded why I always cover up the trumpets by doubling with the first violins and flutes. So artificial/phasey-sounding. :( (and this is from quite a highly-regarded brass library - that shall remain nameless)
> 
> I am SO looking forward to CineBrass and that sweet morphing action! o=?
> 
> Brian



Yeah, a big +1 - it was the real "wow" moment for me of those videos, and the reason why all brass libraries I've ever tried are found wanting. I cringe when I listen back to some of what I've done in that regard, using older libraries! Knowing CB eliminates that completely, with legato to boot, is tremendous.

How's the site update coming on guys?


----------



## robibla

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

The dynamic morphing in those ensemble patches really is spectacular!!!

It's a shame the solo horn doesn't have dynamic morphing/crossfading, wonder if the solo trumpet does. I know the trumpet has the nice soft vibrato with mod all the way down, but the videos don't show whether it has full range dynamics or not


----------



## mushanga

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Not sure if this has already been addressed on here, but was wondering why there are no Trombone or Tuba Solo True Legato patches in the library?

Definitely with everyone re: the dynamic morphing - it even puts VSL's Velocity Crossfade to shame :roll:


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

The dynamic morphing seems to be the future. Instead of cresc. patches alla VSL, why not just record say 7-15 levels of sus? More samples, but much more playable.

Can’t of course do 15 layers for all articulations, but doing maybe 6-7, then morphing should very similar and usable results. o-[][]-o


----------



## paoling

I don't know Cinesamples technology, but "morphing" is easy doable with an accurate tuning process and an accurate sample alignment that prevents phase cancellations. Then crossfading them with an equal power curve can effectively "morph" the sound. VSL could, for example, re-edit their samples to allow that. (I don't know if this is already done).
This is easier with woodwinds and horns, since string vibration is made of the slight phase cancellations between harmonics and the constant oscillation of tune is part of the sound. 
And this is not completely possible for ensemble recording: i can't align two samples of an unison trumpet duet. Since the slight tuning issues are different from one player to another, you can tune any single player independently. (but there can be other systems to build an ensemble from single players).

EDIT: I think Cinebrass sounds beautifully!!!! 
RE-EDIT: Having said so, I'm curious to understand the technology behind Cinebrass Ensemble Patches.


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

I guess CineSamples used that special "morphing" technology with AET in Kontakt 4 which doesn´t seem to be a common crossfade:

See here e.g.:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb10/a ... ntakt4.htm

Marco


----------



## paoling

AET? if you're right this is IMHO the very first example of a convincing use of that filter..


----------



## Mike Connelly

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



robibla @ Mon May 23 said:


> The dynamic morphing in those ensemble patches really is spectacular!!!
> 
> It's a shame the solo horn doesn't have dynamic morphing/crossfading, wonder if the solo trumpet does. I know the trumpet has the nice soft vibrato with mod all the way down, but the videos don't show whether it has full range dynamics or not



Agreed, it's surprising the solo horn is only one dynamic layer. On the CS forums they did say "for now" it's one layer which hints at a future update, I wonder if that would require more recording or if more samples are in the can but they wanted to get it out the door? Hopefully trumpet is more than one layer, but we'll see.



marcotronic @ Mon May 23 said:


> I guess CineSamples used that special "morphing" technology with AET in Kontakt 4 which doesn´t seem to be a common crossfade



I doubt it. There have been a few Konakt examples using AET and for the most part it doesn't seem to work very well. I suspect they figured out their own custom way of doing it since it sounds miles better than anything with AET (similar to how they somehow did custom timestretching in HWW that is way better than Kontakt's built in algorithms).


----------



## damstraversaz

I suppose Greg use the same script than cineorch ( wich is n my opinion the most impressive crossfade I hear). if so, it is not AET, but a custom script)

Damien


----------



## gregjazz

damstraversaz @ Mon May 23 said:


> I suppose Greg use the same script than cineorch ( wich is n my opinion the most impressive crossfade I hear). if so, it is not AET, but a custom script)



Correct, it's not AET, but a scripted method that employs both the use of mathematically-correct equal power fades as well as filters to smooth out the transitions between dynamics. There's also scripting at work to properly create the release tail of dynamics during fast changes (for example, when quickly going from the loudest dynamic to the softest).


----------



## jamwerks

gregjazz @ Mon May 23 said:


> Correct, it's not AET, but a scripted method.


.

Nice work. That one of the strong points of this new library! o-[][]-o


----------



## marcotronic

gregjazz @ Mon May 23 said:


> damstraversaz @ Mon May 23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose Greg use the same script than cineorch ( wich is n my opinion the most impressive crossfade I hear). if so, it is not AET, but a custom script)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct, it's not AET, but a scripted method that employs both the use of mathematically-correct equal power fades as well as filters to smooth out the transitions between dynamics. There's also scripting at work to properly create the release tail of dynamics during fast changes (for example, when quickly going from the loudest dynamic to the softest).
Click to expand...


Wow! Now I´m even more impressed!

Awesome morphing.

Marco


----------



## Cinesamples

Right, we did tests, and found AET to be quite CPU taxing. The results were not worth the CPU hit. Plus we thought Greg's morphing script sounded better (easier to tweak).

Still in a holding pattern guys... waiting on the mothership still...


----------



## germancomponist

CineSamples @ Mon May 23 said:


> Right, we did tests, and found AET to be quite CPU taxing. The results were not worth the CPU hit. Plus we thought Greg's morphing script sounded better (easier to tweak)



Cool! o-[][]-o


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Gunther! You're in Germany! Got lean on those guys. Bring a few big friends...


----------



## jamwerks

Ned Bouhalassa @ Mon May 23 said:


> Gunther! You're in Germany! Got lean on those guys. Bring a few big friends...


 :mrgreen:


----------



## germancomponist

Ned Bouhalassa @ Mon May 23 said:


> Gunther! You're in Germany! Got lean on those guys. Bring a few big friends...


 (o) :mrgreen: o-[][]-o


----------



## Pochflyboy

always waiting on the motherland


----------



## dcoscina

I hope it comes in at a price that's in my neighbourhood (just north of total cheap-ass). Sorry Mike, I won't mention $$$ again. Keep up the great work!! Looking forward to regardless!

EDIT- on a total practical level, given that most of us are on DSL or cable internet, how long would you expect this library to take to download?


----------



## timkiel

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Heh - if they haven't published the library size yet, how about a free copy giveaway competition to the person who guesses the correct (or nearest) filesize :D


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



timkiel @ Tue May 24 said:


> Heh - if they haven't published the library size yet, how about a free copy giveaway competition to the person who guesses the correct (or nearest) filesize :D



Ah but they have. Previous page:



> 8.64GB after NCW compression



Need a new competition idea? How about... guess the price? [JOKE!!!]


----------



## ontrackmusic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

You know who was a great actor? Vincent Price.

Oh and by the way, I haven't seen this anywhere, but perhaps it's buried in one of the 18 pages of posts (any way to search within a thread?): Is Cinebrass going to be full Kontakt only, or will it run in the player like Hollywoodwinds and Voxos?


----------



## gregjazz

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



ontrackmusic @ Tue May 24 said:


> Is Cinebrass going to be full Kontakt only, or will it run in the player like Hollywoodwinds and Voxos?


It will run in the Kontakt Player, like Hollywoodwinds / VOXOS. That's what we're all waiting on right now, actually--Native Instruments encoding the library for the Player.


----------



## artsoundz

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

All we are sayyyyying....is give PRICE a chance......


----------



## Jack Weaver

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Wow....artsoundz.

Where ya been?

.


----------



## ontrackmusic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



> It will run in the Kontakt Player, like Hollywoodwinds / VOXOS. That's what we're all waiting on right now, actually--Native Instruments encoding the library for the Player.



Ahhhh...Gotcha. Very good news (although the delay is irritating I'm sure). Thanks Greg...


----------



## Cinesamples

Page updated with more detailed information:
http://cinesamples.com/products/cinebrass/


----------



## Rob Elliott

CineSamples @ Tue May 24 said:


> Page updated with more detailed information:
> http://cinesamples.com/products/cinebrass/




Looks good. Pacing the halls whilst this 'baby' is close to delivering? :D


----------



## noiseboyuk

CineSamples @ Tue May 24 said:


> Page updated with more detailed information:
> http://cinesamples.com/products/cinebrass/



Great stuff - hopefully that'll keep the repeat info questions to a minimum for those not as obsessive as some of us who read every post on every thread!


----------



## Mike Connelly

Looks like NI finally finished with LASS sordinos, hopefully CB is next on their plate.


----------



## Justus

Mike Connelly @ Wed May 25 said:


> Looks like NI finally finished with LASS sordinos, hopefully CB is next on their plate.



Mike, where did you get this info from?


----------



## Mike Connelly

On the audiobro forums Andrew said they got it back from NI. They're hoping for a Friday release pending updates to their online sales and distribution software so they can handle upgrades and bundles.

Also...
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21163


----------



## gregjazz

I just noticed how many people are posting about CineBrass on the Native Instruments Product Specialists Facebook page. I would assume NI's lack of response means that they're hard at work encoding CineBrass...


----------



## Cinesamples

Just got back from Remote Control Prods demoing the library to a room full of composers and assistants. Quite a positive response. If they are happy, then we know we're doing something right.
Most were a fan of the customization options to the mappings, because the composers there have some unique ways of using their libraries. 
Fun times!


----------



## Pochflyboy

Tough crowd... must be good if they liked it!


----------



## Mahlon

CineSamples @ Thu May 26 said:


> Just got back from Remote Control Prods demoing the library to a room full of composers and assistants. Quite a positive response. If they are happy, then we know we're doing something right.
> Most were a fan of the customization options to the mappings, because the composers there have some unique ways of using their libraries.
> Fun times!



Congratulations. Looking forward to this library. o-[][]-o 

Mahlon


----------



## Polarity

CineSamples @ Fri 27 May said:


> Just got back from Remote Control Prods demoing the library to a room full of composers and assistants. Quite a positive response. If they are happy, then we know we're doing something right.
> Most were a fan of the customization options to the mappings, because the composers there have some unique ways of using their libraries.
> Fun times!




Hard targets to satisfy there, I believe.
Sure a great result!
It just confirm my impressions on this library.


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Last night I woke up from a nightmare, sweating - CineSamples had just released CineBrass but somebody had stolen my ears while I was sleeping and I wasn´t able to listen to what I was playing with this library!!! (o) 

Holy freaking cow - please release that baby as long as I have ears!!! :lol: 

Marco


----------



## Audun Jemtland

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



marcotronic @ Fri May 27 said:


> Last night I woke up from a nightmare, sweating - CineSamples had just released CineBrass but somebody had stolen my ears while I was sleeping and I wasn´t able to listen to what I was playing with this library!!! (o)
> 
> Holy freaking cow - please release that baby as long as I have ears!!! :lol:
> 
> Marco



You're getting paranoid :D
(Make sure this guy doesn't get the library, it might give reprocussions) 



*(Consult a doctor before using this library,it can blow your ears off)*


----------



## Ryan Scully

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

I usually find myself viewing Saving Private Ryan once a year on Memorial Day Weekend. I would say it is the most powerful film I have ever seen in my life time - and incidentally a top 3 for me as far as Williams' scores go... The beautiful/lyrical brass in Hymn To the Fallen had me re-viewing the run through vids on the solo and ensemble true legato patches. Point being - I cant wait for this library!!!!!!!




Ryan


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

CineBrass, LASS Sordinos and the Stanley Cup playoffs: my nerves are shot!


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

http://cinesamples.com/2011/06/cinesamp ... hael-wynn/

Interview we did with composers Christopher Lennertz and Timothy Michael Wynn. Talking about their process, and the importance of samples (even if you have massive orchestra budgets). Also their thoughts on CineBrass.

*CineBrass update*: We just spoke with Native and they will be encoding the library on Friday. There is a "high" probability that it will be available late next week. We'll keep you posted in the next few days...


----------



## NYC Composer

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

I'll bet there'll be a price at that point!


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



CineSamples @ Thu Jun 02 said:


> http://cinesamples.com/2011/06/cinesamples-with-christopher-lennertz-and-timothy-michael-wynn/
> 
> Interview we did with composers Christopher Lennertz and Timothy Michael Wynn. Talking about their process, and the importance of samples (even if you have massive orchestra budgets). Also their thoughts on CineBrass.
> 
> *CineBrass update*: We just spoke with Native and they will be encoding the library on Friday. There is a "high" probability that it will be available late next week. We'll keep you posted in the next few days...



Ah, it's no wonder why NI hasn't gotten back to my support requests - they are too busy encoding your damn library... :roll: 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

In all seriousness - best of luck with this!


----------



## IFM

Thanks for posting that! I think they hit every nail on the head!


----------



## IFM

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



NYC Composer @ Wed Jun 01 said:


> I'll bet there'll be a price at that point!



Indeed...when are you going to spill the beans on the price?


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

The last number is a 9


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



mikebarry @ Wed Jun 01 said:


> The last number is a 9




Ok - now that was funny Mike. Best guess is that the last TWO numbers are 9's o


----------



## NYC Composer

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Yeah, and those two are probably preceded by a decimal point.


----------



## bwherry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



Rob Elliott @ Wed Jun 01 said:


> mikebarry @ Wed Jun 01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last number is a 9
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok - now that was funny Mike. Best guess is that the last TWO numbers are 9's o
Click to expand...


Let's just hope the last _three_ numbers aren't 9's. /\~O


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



bwherry @ Thu Jun 02 said:


> Rob Elliott @ Wed Jun 01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mikebarry @ Wed Jun 01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last number is a 9
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok - now that was funny Mike. Best guess is that the last TWO numbers are 9's o
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's just hope the last _three_ numbers aren't 9's. /\~O
Click to expand...


Why not?

Could be $19.99 - that would make the last three numbers 9's. 

What you don't want, is for the last _five_ numbers to be 9's.


----------



## NYC Composer

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

My lottery pick-$799.99 with a 10% early buy-in discount.


----------



## eschroder

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

I say $599 with no discount since they aren't doing a pre-sale offer.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Bob, this might seem crazy, but... I'm going to bet 1 $! Or: 399, 499, 599, 699, 799, 899 or 999$!


----------



## Daniel James

They should so have a competition now where one person gets to buy it for $9 xD

Dan


----------



## Joe S

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Important question

For the sustains, did you record pp and ff only and used morphing to fill in the middle? It all sounds great, but I think you should tell us.

Same goes for all the shorts? How many dynamics actually recorded.


----------



## gregjazz

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

Instruments naturally have differing ranges of dynamics possible depending on the note, so it just depends. That being said, most of the patches have 3 dynamic levels.


----------



## Justus

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*

449$ I hope...


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



Joe S @ Wed Jun 01 said:


> Important question
> 
> For the sustains, did you record pp and ff only and used morphing to fill in the middle? It all sounds great, but I think you should tell us.
> 
> Same goes for all the shorts? How many dynamics actually recorded.




3, but in reality - the days of 8-10 dynamic layers and tempo synced cresendi are far behind us.


----------



## Ed

Come on its been AGES an need it NAOW!

EDIT: Just seen your update... "days away" ey? I hope A I can afford it, and B I can shoehorn it into my pitch for next wednesday...


----------



## MichaelL

CineSamples @ Thu May 26 said:


> Just got back from Remote Control Prods demoing the library to a room full of composers and assistants. Quite a positive response. If they are happy, then we know we're doing something right.
> Most were a fan of the customization options to the mappings, because the composers there have some unique ways of using their libraries.
> Fun times!




For Mike B. --the hockey fan -- I'd say that you've scored a "hat -trick."

1) fabulous product
2) brilliant marketing
3) first out of the gate

#4 --a great price would make it a grand slam. 

Congratulations Guys! 

o-[][]-o 

Michael

PS. Mike P. -- nice to know I'm not the only one who uses a BIG KNOB. :lol:


----------



## adg21

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

I wouldn't be surprised if this broke the record for fastest selling sample library in history, talk about creating a buzz


----------



## Pedro Camacho

I just spent some of my "Anual Library Budget" on LASS LS, so I hope CineBrass will not be too expensive, otherwise I might not be able to buy it on release.


----------



## bricop

Pedro Camacho @ 3/6/2011 said:


> I just spent some of my "Anual Library Budget" on LASS LS, so I hope CineBrass will not be too expensive, otherwise I might not be able to buy it on release.



Me too Pedro


----------



## marcotronic

bricop @ Fri Jun 03 said:


> Pedro Camacho @ 3/6/2011 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just spent some of my "Anual Library Budget" on LASS LS, so I hope CineBrass will not be too expensive, otherwise I might not be able to buy it on release.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me too Pedro
Click to expand...


Same here!

But mmhhhhh... Gonna buy it anyway - and if I have to sell my car, my mother´s soul or rent my wife to somebody... o=< :twisted: :lol: 

Marco


----------



## EwigWanderer

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

In Facebook: Cinesamples says "It's back..."

o-[][]-o


----------



## FireGS

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Already? Jesus.. I cannot waittt!


----------



## Hannesdm

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Bring it on!! 8)


----------



## artinro

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Yes!


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

the second number rhymes with pine - the first is something different


----------



## artinro

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Weekend release? 8)


----------



## FireGS

God, thatd be siiick.


----------



## bryla

who Hun red pine dee pine?

or only two digits?


----------



## FireGS

I'm thinking $599-699.


----------



## Pochflyboy

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



artinro @ Fri Jun 03 said:


> Weekend release? 8)



they said they will need a couple days to integrate... looks like next week it will be here. :D


----------



## Hannesdm

FireGS @ Fri Jun 03 said:


> I'm thinking $599-699.



I'm hoping $399-499.


----------



## hbuus

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



mikebarry @ Fri Jun 03 said:


> the second number rhymes with pine - the first is something different



Different rhymes with eight, so I'm guessing $899.

Ok, so what did I win? 

Henrik


----------



## marcotronic

My hope is $499,- (I fear it´s $599,-, though)
- in the beginning they said it´s more towards CineOrch than towards VOXOS. 

I liked the "donationware" idea (mentioned by of the "Mikes" somewhere in this thread), though, too 

Marco


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



mikebarry @ Fri Jun 03 said:


> the second number rhymes with pine - the first is something different



I am about to take pine to the side of your head.........sorry, the filter didn't kick in 0oD 


Seriously - weekend release, please. Purty Please!


----------



## FireGS

I have 3 songs I need to finish that have been waiting for this, weekend release pretty please? :D I'll give you cookies...and more of my money... =)


----------



## Justus

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Official Patch Run-through Video Added!!)*



CineSamples @ Thu Jun 02 said:


> *CineBrass update*: We just spoke with Native and they will be encoding the library on Friday. There is a "high" probability that it will be available late next week. We'll keep you posted in the next few days...


----------



## FireGS

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Shhhhhhhh let us dream!


----------



## Justus

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



FireGS @ Fri Jun 03 said:


> Shhhhhhhh let us dream!



Oh, sorry!
Native Instruments, go go go!!!!


----------



## FireGS

Well, they did say that "something" is back. Could be it. Has to be it.


----------



## Mike Connelly

Based on "it's back" on FB, sounds like NI is done with it and CS is just getting it ready to release.


----------



## Pochflyboy

They posted that they will need a few days to get it up on their website and all.... It is clearly back :D hopefully early next week....


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

By the way, the first number isn't a 9


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*







In the library panel now!
Uploading to our system at the moment. 8.5 GB, will take a while, then we need to test.


----------



## audiot

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Thanks for the information! Apparently we are on pins and needles. By the way the AFM agreement looks comprehensible - fairness has its price. I am on LSD - Looking forward to CineBrass, Selling my grandma, Dealing with music. I should better hit the hay now...


----------



## sin(x)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Mike, is that a screenshot from the full version of Kontakt? If it is and I'm reading the icons correctly, you've decided to go with edit-locked patches… which would be a terrible shame, and would make the library much less appealing for me. Not only do I find myself moving things around in the patches of a library all the time to make it fit better into my workflow, it also sabotages building banks (which I'm using heavily in my template). I skipped Symphobia 2 because of this.

I hate to be negative, as I've been just as excited about this thing as everyone here so far (if not more, as brass has been the weakest spot of my template for far too long). Anyway, still hoping I'm drawing the wrong conclusions. I'd appreciate some clarification on this.


----------



## dannthr

I think it's to protect Greg's scripting/filter/morphing structure which would probably disintigrate if edits were made.

How does it stop you from making banks?


----------



## gregjazz

dannthr @ Sat Jun 04 said:


> How does it stop you from making banks?


Because you can't double-click on the instrument while it's in an instrument bank to see edit controls on the patch's interface from Kontakt's backend interface.


----------



## Ed

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



sin(x) @ Sat Jun 04 said:


> . I skipped Symphobia 2 because of this.
> .



just a note about Symphobia, its only the legato patches in SYM2 that are locked.

To me I don't care so long as I don't NEED to get into the patch because it doesn't work properly. Seems like CS have all the control I need and will fix it if there is a problem.


----------



## Cinesamples

This is how NI delivered it to us on friday. Despite our instructions to keep it open. It is just a matter of asking for open patches on Monday.
Have no fear my crazy tweaker friends.

Edit: we decided to save the open version for the update. Just email us if you need specific requirements until then.


----------



## Gerd Kaeding

CineSamples @ Sat Jun 04 said:


> This is how NI delivered it to us on friday. Despite our instructions to keep it open. It is just a matter of asking for open patches on Monday.
> Have no fear my crazy tweaker friends.



... and while the tweak-a-holics have to wait for those patches you can already start selling the patches you have now to the rest of the world ... on Monday !!!

How about that ?


Best

Gerd


----------



## marcotronic

Gerd Kaeding @ Sat Jun 04 said:


> CineSamples @ Sat Jun 04 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is how NI delivered it to us on friday. Despite our instructions to keep it open. It is just a matter of asking for open patches on Monday.
> Have no fear my crazy tweaker friends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... and while the tweak-a-holics have to wait for those patches you can already start selling the patches you have now to the rest of the world ... on Monday !!!
> 
> How about that ?
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Gerd
Click to expand...


It´s Saturday now - why wait till Monday ?! o=? 

Marco


----------



## Cinesamples

To avoid a week of delay, we decided to release as is and then offer an update with open patches later. If you have specific requirements we can address them for you personally. 
Keep in mind that many things are customizable in the custom map grid.


----------



## sin(x)

CineSamples @ 2011-06-04 said:


> It is just a matter of asking for open patches on Monday.
> Have no fear my crazy tweaker friends.



That's AWESOME news, Mike. You have me in autobuy mode. <3

@Ed: Yeah, I'm aware it's just the Legato stuff, but still… that's one of the key elements of S2, isn't it? Also, I got to admit it's just as much about the principle for me as it's about the practicality. I can understand "it protects against piracy" as a reason for locking down samples, and can sort of accept "it protects our ultra-confidential business logic" as a reason for locking down scripts, but castrating your library by blocking access to the top-most editing layer just crosses a line for me.

Anyway, not meaning to derail the thread – with that concern cleared up, let's keep the buzz machine buzzing =o


----------



## FireGS

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

*starst moving funds around*


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Release it now. o=<


----------



## dedersen

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Bloody hell. Yesterday LASS LS and now Cinebrass. Scary times for my credit card.


----------



## Ed

CineSamples @ Sat Jun 04 said:


> If you have specific requirements we can address them for you personally.



I'll take a pancake and strawberries with mine, thanks,


----------



## Ed

sin(x) @ Sat Jun 04 said:


> @Ed: Yeah, I'm aware it's just the Legato stuff, but still… that's one of the key elements of S2, isn't it? Also, I got to admit it's just as much about the principle for me as it's about the practicality. I can understand "it protects against piracy" as a reason for locking down samples, and can sort of accept "it protects our ultra-confidential business logic" as a reason for locking down scripts, but castrating your library by blocking access to the top-most editing layer just crosses a line for me.



Annoying thing I find with locking SYM2 legato patches are... 1. I can't stretch the samples, sometimes you just need one more note! (CS has this covered, they say) 2. The slightly screwed up, a bit stuttery, modwheel volume control so you can't hope to fix it if they don't (CS is smooth, they say). 

Anyway it doesn't matter as CS is unlocked anyway after all yey!


----------



## Pedro Camacho

CineSamples @ Sat Jun 04 said:


> open patches later.



Open patches for me are really a necessity, I always introduce deep custom controls for my Midi Controller.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Where's Julian Assange when we need him most?!!!


----------



## sin(x)

Ned Bouhalassa @ 2011-06-04 said:


> Where's Julian Assange when we need him most?!!!



Ssshh! He'd stretch the release over 10 months, one note at a time…


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Ed

I have a pitch due Wednesday.. I really hope I have time to shoehorn in CS Brass :D


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Ed, just settle for a normal shoehorn on Monday! You don't _have_ to wait to get the new iShoehorn.


----------



## Cinesamples

Waiting on the serial numbers from NI at the moment. Everything else is setup and ready to go in the system otherwise...
Once we get the serials, it takes 5 minutes to input, and we'll be selling CineBrass!
The wait will be over very soon.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Dude, you should have said so before - no need to wait for NI, as I've got some I can send you:


----------



## Jack Weaver

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Hey Mike & Mike,

Don't you think that ceremonially you should allow Ed to buy the first one?

I think dude's gonna bust a gut unless he gets it as soon as possible.

.


----------



## Stevie

LOL Ned, PRICELESS!!! :D


----------



## Ed

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



Jack Weaver @ Sun Jun 05 said:


> Hey Mike & Mike,
> 
> Don't you think that ceremonially you should allow Ed to buy the first one?
> 
> I think dude's gonna bust a gut unless he gets it as soon as possible.
> 
> .



Lol, I'm not *that *excited so long as I can get it in time for me to to this pitch I'm happy... I just hope once I do get it I will suddenly be able to figure out this main theme... otherwise I'm screwed. A lot riding on this guys, better be good :lol:


----------



## Jack Weaver

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Just showing my concern for my fellow VI-ers.

.


----------



## Vision

CineSamples @ Sun Jun 05 said:


> Waiting on the serial numbers from NI at the moment. Everything else is setup and ready to go in the system otherwise...
> Once we get the serials, it takes 5 minutes to input, and we'll be selling CineBrass!
> The wait will be over very soon.



WANT o=?


----------



## marcotronic

Hope you guys ordered ENOUGH cerials, uuuuhhhh... serials 

This lib is gonna be a "serial killer"!

Marco


----------



## Justus

CineSamples @ Sun Jun 05 said:


> Waiting on the serial numbers from NI at the moment. Everything else is setup and ready to go in the system otherwise...
> Once we get the serials, it takes 5 minutes to input, and we'll be selling CineBrass!
> The wait will be over very soon.



F5 day!


----------



## Christian Marcussen

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Here's to a price below $500. o-[][]-o


----------



## Pedro Camacho

499 would be a killer special VI-forum promo. Higher than that I might have to wait some time until I buy it.


----------



## MaestroRage

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

f5 key gonna be pretty worn down today.


----------



## marcotronic

The problem is: When they release it´s at least one more day waiting for me till the download is finished due to my superduper internet connection at home... :(

So when you guys are happily "CineBrass"ing I´ll be still downloading and downloading till the cows come home...


----------



## Hannesdm

marcotronic @ Mon Jun 06 said:


> The problem is: When they release it´s at least one more day waiting for me till the download is finished due to my superduper internet connection at home... :(
> 
> So when you guys are happily "CineBrass"ing I´ll be still downloading and downloading till the cows come home...



Same here.

I'm still downloading LASS LS, and that's not even as big as Cinebrass.. :?


----------



## marcotronic

Hannesdm @ Mon Jun 06 said:


> marcotronic @ Mon Jun 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is: When they release it´s at least one more day waiting for me till the download is finished due to my superduper internet connection at home... :(
> 
> So when you guys are happily "CineBrass"ing I´ll be still downloading and downloading till the cows come home...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same here.
> 
> I'm still downloading LASS LS, and that's not even as big as Cinebrass.. :?
Click to expand...


:| Spitfire Percussions took me 3 days to download...


----------



## jamwerks

Pedro Camacho @ Mon Jun 06 said:


> 499 would be a killer special VI-forum promo. Higher than that I might have to wait some time until I buy it.



I’m sure that you say that just for information’s sake, and not trying to influence them in any way ! :mrgreen: 

(p.s. if it sounds great, I’ll buy only if they announce a part II with mutes, stopped, etc.
I use all the colors brass permits, and don’t want a half-library.)


----------



## Christian Marcussen

jamwerks @ Mon Jun 06 said:


> Pedro Camacho @ Mon Jun 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 499 would be a killer special VI-forum promo. Higher than that I might have to wait some time until I buy it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m sure that you say that just for information’s sake, and not trying to influence them in any way ! :mrgreen:
Click to expand...


I think we already have influenced them - the wrong way. I'm sure it will be more expensive now with all the hype


----------



## Justus

Christian Marcussen @ Mon Jun 06 said:


> jamwerks @ Mon Jun 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pedro Camacho @ Mon Jun 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 499 would be a killer special VI-forum promo. Higher than that I might have to wait some time until I buy it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m sure that you say that just for information’s sake, and not trying to influence them in any way ! :mrgreen:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think we already have influenced them - the wrong way. I'm sure it will be more expensive now with all the hype
Click to expand...


What hype? Actually I don't know if I'll get CineBrass...


F5

F5

F5

0oD


----------



## Cinesamples

If your F5 key breaks, you can just put your email here, and we'll send you an email the moment it's up. (Waiting on serials still.)

http://cinesamples.us1.list-manage.com/ ... e93a8983e0


----------



## sin(x)

jamwerks @ 2011-06-06 said:


> I use all the colors brass permits, and don’t want a half-library.



Don't know man. Aren't they all? I mean, every developer makes a conscious decision where to draw the line between mandatory and optional articulations. I actually commend them on aiming to get a solid library of basics done first, instead of trying to pull off Yet Another Library To End All Libraries – when other developers tried to do this in the past, it hasn't always turned out to the benefit of the result.

Not questioning your reasons to skip it, but to call it a half-library – dunno. With the same reasoning, you could call it a tenth-library because even if they do an extension later, it'll probably still be missing wah mutes, jazz articulations, valve click percussion, underwater trombones, and a school kid from Idaho who can do this really cool thing with his armpit.


----------



## Patrick de Caumette

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Jun 05 said:


> Dude, you should have said so before - no need to wait for NI, as I've got some I can send you:



:mrgreen:


----------



## jamwerks

sin(x) @ Mon Jun 06 said:


> jamwerks @ 2011-06-06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I use all the colors brass permits, and don’t want a half-library.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know man. Aren't they all? I mean, every developer makes a conscious decision where to draw the line between mandatory and optional articulations. I actually commend them on aiming to get a solid library of basics done first, instead of trying to pull off Yet Another Library To End All Libraries – when other developers tried to do this in the past, it hasn't always turned out to the benefit of the result.
> 
> Not questioning your reasons to skip it, but to call it a half-library – dunno. With the same reasoning, you could call it a tenth-library because even if they do an extension later, it'll probably still be missing wah mutes, jazz articulations, valve click percussion, underwater trombones, and a school kid from Idaho who can do this really cool thing with his armpit.
Click to expand...


I commend them too for starting with the major articulations for a seemingly great sounding result, For myself, I’m interested in a "complete" Romantic-Modern" era solution, which include lots of colors in the brass (or did I say that already?). Debussy, Stravinski etc extensively used these colors.

Cinesamples seems to appreciate John Williams. To play “The Imperial March” (Darth Vaders’s theme) you won’t need any valve clicks or underwater trombones, but you will need a vary esoteric element called a "straight mute" for the 1st trumpet. o=<


----------



## Cinesamples

FYI, just got "OPEN" patches back from NI. This is great, we thought it would take longer. Now we can just offer the open patches from the beginning.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*


----------



## FireGS

fffffffff cmonnnn


----------



## Ed

ONLY 100 BILLION DOLLARS


----------



## sin(x)

Ed @ 2011-06-06 said:


> ONLY 100 BILLION DOLLARS



100 billion and nine, if anything.


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Serials - still waiting! 

In the mean time Mike P and the crew is hard at work at adding the open source files to the server. We agree that this is a good use of a day - to avoid updating headaches.


----------



## FireGS

I love you, Mike and Mike.


*slightly delusional as its Monday and the CineBrass wait is killing me D:*


----------



## Vision

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

All right people, time to come clean. Raise your hand if you are watching the Official Patch Run-through video right now.. for the 7th time or more. While.. o[])


----------



## FireGS

Taking bets, who thinks its coming out tonight? Im still hopeful, but not expecting by now =\


----------



## Ed

Balls to it, its 3am... I'm going to sleep... everything will be fine when I wake, you see.


----------



## marcotronic

So it´s Tuesday morning now in Germany. No brassy sign yet...

N.I. - come oooooooooon...!!!

Marco


----------



## devastat

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

It was my birthday yesterday, but I will nevertheless accept presents day after as well


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Are we still going to be getting full orchestral demos with JUST CineBrass as the brass choir? This would be really awesome to have next to all of these great naked demos.


----------



## Mateo Pascual

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Another F5 day it seems....


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



Mateo Pascual @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> Another F5 day it seems....



Well, I figure that Germany will be working 9-5pm GMT+1 and the Mikes SURELY won't be around before 8AM GMT-8. So work that out for your own timezone... I'll start checking in at 4pm UK time!


----------



## Justus

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

I think Germany has started working about 2-3 hours ago.
Hope that helps...


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



Justus @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> I think Germany has started working about 2-3 hours ago.
> Hope that helps...



Sure, but we also need the Mikes to be awake!


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



noiseboyuk @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> Justus @ Tue Jun 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Germany has started working about 2-3 hours ago.
> Hope that helps...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, but we also need the Mikes to be awake!
Click to expand...


o=< o/~ /\~O *MIIIIIIKES !!! TIME TO GET UP!!!* o=< _-) o/~ /\~O o=< 

:lol:


----------



## sin(x)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

This thread makes the average Apple fanboy look like a level-headed, rational technology pragmatist. 8)


----------



## Stephen Baysted

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



sin(x) @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> This thread makes the average Apple fanboy look like a level-headed, rational technology pragmatist. 8)



Indeed, and has, no doubt, pushed the price of the product up a few hundred dollars too. :mrgreen:


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

I woke up early just for you guys.

Called Germany - it looks like today is a go. Waiting for the final emails.


----------



## Ed

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



mikebarry @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> I woke up early just for you guys.
> 
> Called Germany - it looks like today is a go. Waiting for the final emails.



yey! *Whats the final download size Mike?*

And when we gonna get a price? 100 billion dollaR?


----------



## Ed

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



Rousseau @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> sin(x) @ Tue Jun 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread makes the average Apple fanboy look like a level-headed, rational technology pragmatist. 8)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and has, no doubt, pushed the price of the product up a few hundred dollars too. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...


But ... they did say it would be a no brainer right? Didn't they say that?...


----------



## Justus

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

I have 499$ left on my bank account, BTW...


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

I hear that Hitler is really, really angry at Fegelein for not getting the final emails yesterday.


----------



## Ed

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> I hear that Hitler is really, really angry at Fegelein for not getting the final emails yesterday.



hahahahaha


----------



## sin(x)

Ned Bouhalassa @ 2011-06-07 said:


> I hear that Hitler is really, really angry at Fegelein for not getting the final emails yesterday.



Not as angry as he'll be if he learns that people aren't even bothering with iMovie anymore.


----------



## Stevie

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



Justus @ 7th June 2011 said:


> I have 499$ left on my bank account, BTW...



Hm, let's see. 299$ here.


----------



## Pietro

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



Stevie @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> Justus @ 7th June 2011 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have 499$ left on my bank account, BTW...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hm, let's see. 299$ here.
Click to expand...


30 bucks here. Seriously...

- Piotr


----------



## dannthr

+1 on the 30 bucks!


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

OK... and how are the Mikes supposed to afford to make CineWinds, CineStrings and CinePercs? :shock: :wink:


----------



## OB.one

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Just a short message :

Cinebrass is probably the first sample library ever created taking so much consideration of the users on this forum during the editing process and before releasing the final product.

Don't forget this because it's really a beautiful behaviour from this company and am pretty sure it really helped to make an even better product o-[][]-o 

Best Regards from Paris

Olivier aka OB.one
http://www.myspace.com/obonemusic
http://soundcloud.com/lentresol-sound-studio


----------



## dannthr

Considerate is probably the best word for the library as far as I can tell.

Considerate of the users and the potential customers, considerate of the musicians, considerate to the engineers, the recording space.

There is a lot of well deserved pride in all of that consideration and I have no doubt that whatever price scheme they have in mind will be well worth it.


I've just been in penny pincher mode since April.


----------



## bwherry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Quick question for the Mikes. The CineBrass product page (http://cinesamples.com/products/cinebrass/) says "Kontakt Player 4.2.3 or higher" - does that mean that for us full Kontakt 4 users, it requires 4.2.3 or higher? I'm still on Kontakt 4.1.something because I've read about some bugs with 4.2+ (me love stability). I could always get a Kontakt update going now (if needed) whilst awaiting that "Coming Soon!" to change to something else... :wink: 

Brian


----------



## dcoscina

Yeah, it's great to have this kind of excitement about a product (and it does look super) but one has to posit that this overt kind of enthusiasm could call for a higher retail price. BUT, from everything I have read and seen by Mike and Mike, they are really grounded guys and I think they will do their best to make this accessible but also make a little $$$ on this too since this ain't cheap to put together no doubt.

I sent a link to CineBrass to a composer friend in LA and he took the link down from his FB account as he has many friends in orchestras and didn't want to upset anyone. When I told him that Mikes were allotting monies in royalties to the actual musicians on this session, he was sorry he took it down. He was blown away by this as he thinks it's unprecedented. I dunno, is this the first time a sample developer has arranged for part of the profit to get back to the musicians?


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



Pietro @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> Stevie @ Tue Jun 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justus @ 7th June 2011 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have 499$ left on my bank account, BTW...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hm, let's see. 299$ here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 30 bucks here. Seriously...
> 
> - Piotr
Click to expand...


 about MINUS 3000 Bucks here - But i highly doubt CineSamples will GIVE me money when I buy CineBrass :D 

Marco


----------



## dcoscina

Oh, I have one other question for Mike & Mike: have you pondered putting out a single demo sound for DL to perspective buyers like Cinematic Strings did a while ago? That Monster Staccato actually made me pull the trigger. 

I don't want to piss anyone off with this idea but we're seeing more and more developers giving buyers an opportunity to get a real sense of what their product can do. Once again, I don't mean to rock the boat or be disrespectful. Just curious.


----------



## Ed

dcoscina @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> I don't want to piss anyone off with this idea but we're seeing more and more developers giving buyers an opportunity to get a real sense of what their product can do. Once again, I don't mean to rock the boat or be disrespectful. Just curious.



I think its a win win if they did that... if you want people to actually demo it rather than only using that one patch, then just REALLY restrict the range but have that range fully functional so you can see how it all works.


----------



## stonzthro

Judging by the response here, I doubt a demo is necessary...

I won't need one.


----------



## Pedro Camacho

Max budget for this library: 500 USD.
I hope it is lower than this... otherwise I will need to save for a while.


----------



## dcoscina

Ed @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> dcoscina @ Tue Jun 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to piss anyone off with this idea but we're seeing more and more developers giving buyers an opportunity to get a real sense of what their product can do. Once again, I don't mean to rock the boat or be disrespectful. Just curious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think its a win win if they did that... if you want people to actually demo it rather than only using that one patch, then just REALLY restrict the range but have that range fully functional so you can see how it all works.
Click to expand...


I think Project SAM did that with their included stuff with Gigastudio years back and that got me to buy their Sam Horns and Solo Sessions because of that. TrySound is also a viable means but the latency doesn't help give one an idea of the short articulations...mind you, I still bought Symphobia 1 based on my TrySound sessions....


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Hmm, I might be wrong, but judging by the patch list at the website, the only thing recorded for solo instruments is legato, is this true? If this is true, I think the price will reflect that, and will also mean that a Cinebrass 2 will most likely appear at some point 8)


----------



## Ed

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



Simon Ravn @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> Hmm, I might be wrong, but judging by the patch list at the website, the only thing recorded for solo instruments is legato, is this true? If this is true, I think the price will reflect that, and will also mean that a Cinebrass 2 will most likely appear at some point 8)



That would be cool, I like that model if thats the idea. It means they can get their money back and then they can do more rather than trying to do everything at once which I think makes for a worse library and is more expensive. To a certain extent I think sample libraries are a gamble you're really not sure till you edit and program how well its going to work.


----------



## Cinesamples

Yes, you will need to upgrade to 4.2.3 to use CineBrass.
Kontakt player, or full version.


----------



## Ed

dcoscina @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> [
> I think Project SAM did that with their included stuff with Gigastudio years back and that got me to buy their Sam Horns and Solo Sessions because of that. TrySound is also a viable means but the latency doesn't help give one an idea of the short articulations...mind you, I still bought Symphobia 1 based on my TrySound sessions....



Yes, trysound is great, but a fully functional but very limited demo patch helps you in a different way.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



Simon Ravn @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> Hmm, I might be wrong, but judging by the patch list at the website, the only thing recorded for solo instruments is legato, is this true? If this is true, I think the price will reflect that, and will also mean that a Cinebrass 2 will most likely appear at some point 8)



Yes, and I think only 1 velocity layer. Don't get me wrong, this absolutely sounds like an insanely good library, brilliantly recorded and programmed and will be fantastically useful, but imho it's only intended to cover certain bases. I too hope CineBrass 2 will eventually follow.

My guess is that the "no brainer" price comment sort of reflects this. But I know I'd far rather have a library that only covers 50% of the instruments I might need brilliantly than one that covers 100% but doesn't deliver on sound or usability.


----------



## Gerd Kaeding

CineSamples @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> Yes, you will need to upgrade to 4.2.3 to use CineBrass.
> Kontakt player, or full version.



Ahhh ... good morning ... finally awake ! ... isn't this a wonderful Tuesday morning ? ...
So wonderful indeed , that it is an ideal morning to .... release a Brass Library ... eh ? ...


----------



## marcotronic

Gerd Kaeding @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> CineSamples @ Tue Jun 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you will need to upgrade to 4.2.3 to use CineBrass.
> Kontakt player, or full version.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh ... good morning ... finally awake ! ... isn't this a wonderful Tuesday morning ? ...
> So wonderful indeed , that it is an ideal morning to .... release a Brass Library ... eh ? ...
Click to expand...


N.I. seem to roll the dice to generate those serials, though... Then someone types them on an old typewriter and some retired carrier pigeons send them over to CineSamples... 8) 

Marco


----------



## devastat

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

If the price is less than 499$ I am gonna go for this library and I just bought LASS LS today. I won't eat for a month or two tho  Can't wait for this library, please release it soon.. o=<


----------



## Ed

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*



noiseboyuk @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Tue Jun 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, I might be wrong, but judging by the patch list at the website, the only thing recorded for solo instruments is legato, is this true? If this is true, I think the price will reflect that, and will also mean that a Cinebrass 2 will most likely appear at some point 8)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and I think only 1 velocity layer. .
Click to expand...


I heard Mike say 2 dynamics in the video. Seems like the morphing really make them count though.


----------



## sbkp

I'm pretty sure that's 2 layers of _legato transitions_. I think the actual notes are sampled at more (though I don't recall how many dynamics for those).


----------



## gregjazz

sbkp @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> I'm pretty sure that's 2 layers of _legato transitions_. I think the actual notes are sampled at more (though I don't recall how many dynamics for those).


Yes, exactly--2 dynamics of legato transitions, versus the normal 3 dynamic layers.

Make sure your version of Kontakt 4 or the Kontakt Player is 4.2.3, since older versions won't load the patches. I'm a beta tester for Kontakt, and they've fixed a lot of bugs in these past few updates, so it's definitely worth the update.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Oh good stuff - so the solos are 3 velocites for the main sustained notes? I'm not sure where I got the idea it was only one, but great news.


----------



## marcotronic

So it´s 8 p.m. in Germany now. "Usual" office hours have ended some time ago now.

If CineSamples haven´t got any serials yet I fear that´s it for this Tuesday... :(

Marco


----------



## Ed

marcotronic @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> So it´s 8 p.m. in Germany now. "Usual" office hours have ended some time ago now.
> 
> If CineSamples haven´t got any serials yet I fear that´s it for this Tuesday... :(
> 
> Marco



OMG BUNCH OF BALLS


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

Just going to the store for milk....


----------



## Stevie

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Mere days away - - - >)*

My thoughts exactly...


----------



## Tino Danielzik

Next time you guys should announce a new product on the release day, the guys of this forum go nuts!


----------



## adg21

Tino Danielzik @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> Next time you guys should announce a new product on the release day, the guys of this forum go nuts!


it's a marketing tour de force


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

I'm taking bets for release time and msrp. Email me for more info (act fast!): [email protected].


----------



## Stevie

Hot dogs! hot dogs! Anyone HOT DOGS???


----------



## Ed

the thread title has changed to "hours away"...

I hope they dont mean 24


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

We got serials from NI, just last minute housekeeping and other stuff...


----------



## FireGS

Wonderful! Congrats guys!


----------



## Pochflyboy

lol no one got the "going to the store for milk"

lookin forward to it


----------



## eschroder

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

swwwwweeeetttttttt


----------



## Stevie

Poor VI forum now being hammered by F5


----------



## devastat

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

Please please please be under 499 *fingers crossed*


----------



## rJames

CineSamples @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> Yes, you will need to upgrade to 4.2.3 to use CineBrass.
> Kontakt player, or full version.



Ready!


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*



mikebarry @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> We got serials from NI, just last minute housekeeping and other stuff...




Mike - what's this all about? Do you guys have a new library you are releasing? Any demos?
















o


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

I would be highly surprised if the download goes well initially due to demand.


----------



## Alex Temple

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

Look at those 60,000 topic views! I bet I'm responsible for about 300 of them.


----------



## dedersen

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

Is this a new record for longest thread on vi control? Must be a wonderful feeling for the Mikes to see how excited they've got all of us. And it is well deserved.

Now put an end to our suffering!!!


----------



## Ed

i swear this morning it said 50,000 something so its grown over 10,000 views, wow.

also:
10 Registered, 0 Hidden and 16 Guests


----------



## dedersen

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

And it has been less than two months since the first announcement!

Edit: Poor kids. It's gonna be two months of Pasta Menstruazione* again.

*) Pasta with ketchup.


----------



## Stevie

LOL!


----------



## eschroder

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

ummm.... I think they forgot about us.... :lol:


----------



## FireGS

I dont blame em


----------



## Stevie

The fact that literally everyone in this forum soon will be using CineBrass, scares me...


----------



## devastat

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

o[])


----------



## Ryan Scully

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

Nice - So glad I made it home from work in time for the expected release - I've been checking all day from my phone!!


----------



## MaestroRage

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

I have literally stopped everything to wait for this...

I need it NOW :0!!!!

(I hope it's below $499... it'd be swell to grab this right away)


----------



## Cinesamples

Ironing out the system here. Testing, making sure this goes smooth for ALL of you. It seems to us that there may be high demand.

CineBrass will be a 8.5GB compressed download in total. We are using a robust cloud server that will establish your location, and send you the file from the server closest to you wherever you are in the world. Pretty cool stuff. Fingers crossed!


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Hit me up if you need a download beta tester.


----------



## Casey Edwards

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> Hit me up if you need a download beta tester.



I like your angle! Yeah, hit me up too!!! -wink wink- hahaha


----------



## Rob Elliott

Casey Edwards @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Jun 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hit me up if you need a download beta tester.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like your angle! Yeah, hit me up too!!! -wink wink- hahaha
Click to expand...



Boy - Mike(s) - this library is just wonderful. Thanks for the early links.







0oD 

(ok - that's just mean-spirited)


----------



## eschroder

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

So close.... I can taste it!


----------



## bryla

Downloading!!


----------



## eschroder

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

haha messed up


----------



## devastat

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

Hours away... (from facebook)


----------



## eschroder

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

bummer... I was hoping minutes.


----------



## MMMusic

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

have to get up early - look forward to hearing fresh reviews in the morning 

o=<


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

My first (pre)impressions? It's INCREDIBLE!

Quick (pre)review: WOW!

Legato is so smooth, I can't hear it. Of course, I can't hear any of it, yet. But I can _feel_ the transitions, and they're smooth.


----------



## MaestroRage

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

=o =o =o =o =o =o o=<


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*



Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> My first (pre)impressions? It's INCREDIBLE!
> 
> Quick (pre)review: WOW!
> 
> Legato is so smooth, I can't hear it. Of course, I can't hear any of it, yet. But I can _feel_ the transitions, and they're smooth.



still haven't come down from last nites game I see.


----------



## adg21

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

50 - 100 view counts a minute. Wow


----------



## devastat

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

Offtopic: Is there any particularly good Orchestral woodwind libraries currently out, or coming in the near future? I know cinesamples has Hollywood winds, but apparently there is no individual instruments at all, no?


----------



## Justus

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

It's 1 o'clock in the morning.
Going to bed now.
Wake me up when it's released...
Thanks!


----------



## Ed

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*



devastat @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> Offtopic: Is there any particularly good Orchestral woodwind libraries currently out, or coming in the near future? I know cinesamples has Hollywood winds, but apparently there is no individual instruments at all, no?



Correct. But I'm sure they will get around to it.


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*



Justus @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> It's 1 o'clock in the morning.
> Going to bed now.
> Wake me up when it's released...
> Thanks!




Trust the force....when the library is released...you'll feel a disruption in the force and you'll shoot right out of bed. (o)


----------



## eschroder

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

They are doing a cinewinds as well as cineorch 2... Mike mentioned it awhile back on the cinesample forum.


----------



## devastat

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

Website ---> Cinesamples is currently undergoing scheduled maintenance.

Edit: I should go to sleep soon its already 2:30 am here :roll:


----------



## FireGS

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*


----------



## FireGS

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*



RiffWraith @ Tue Jun 07 said:


>




I hate you ;/c]


----------



## Ed

RiffWraith, Ive seen it before but actually I just noticed it kind of sounds like they are all playing Rockband, really badly :D


----------



## madbulk

I always chuckle at 1:20 or so when the roadie comes out to check the guitar amp. Like anyone gives a rat's ass.

"Hey man, is there a weird sound coming out of that one amp? Like a crackle? You hear that? I'd better go check that out."


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*



FireGS @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> I hate you ;/c]


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

****** SPAM ALERT ********

Well, with all the traffic that this thread is getting, I figure it's high time I used the eyeballs to announce my new venture - kids free on Sunday (between 7 and 7:30am):


----------



## IFM

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*



FireGS @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> RiffWraith @ Tue Jun 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate you ;/c]
Click to expand...



Wow... I mean wow... er wow... >8o


----------



## MaestroRage

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

these are some long hours that are away...


----------



## gregjazz

My Firefox website update alert notification just went off for the Cinesamples website.


----------



## Cinesamples

*CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Ladies and Gentleman: The wait is OVER!

*CineBrass* is released! Order now for ONLY *$399*!

*Product Page:*
http://cinesamples.com/products/cinebrass

*Order Now:*
http://sites.fastspring.com/cinesamples ... ction=adds

Thank you all, and enjoy CineBrass!


----------



## vrocko

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

Go get it guys. wait till you see the price


----------



## dcoscina

Guys, it's up. Not kidding either.


----------



## MaestroRage

insta-bought


----------



## Alex Temple

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

Downloading now!


----------



## Ed

I JUST PEED ALL OVER MY KEYBOARD


----------



## dcoscina

Ordered and downloading. Thanks Mike and Mike


----------



## Ed

OMG I bought it I AM SO HAPPY... I was expecting WAY more expensive.


----------



## Ian Dorsch

SWEET MERCIFUL CRAP


----------



## Treb

ONLY $399?!?!?! I just spit water all over my monitor!!! Wowowow.


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*

Nice deal. Expectantly so - I am getting about 120KB/sec on a 5 mb/sec provider. Anyone getting better speeds (latest build of firefox).


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I wasn't sure if I was going to buy it...but then I pushed 'buy'....Damn you CineBrass! Can't wait to fix up a new Template ASAP!!!


----------



## dcoscina

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*



Rob Elliott @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> Nice deal. Expectantly so - I am getting about 120KB/sec on a 5 mb/sec provider. Anyone getting better speeds (latest build of firefox).



I've got all 5 links DL right now. Some are going at 286 kbps while the slowest is 128 kbps

I'm heading to bed. By morning everything should be golden. I had to DL the latest Kontakt 4 update before doing this. Seems fine.

I'm really glad and amazed that CineSamples brought this in at such a good price. 
_-)


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I've got all 5 going at once and they are all going about 800-900 KB/sec. I am on a Fiber Optics network though.


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Cinesamples announces CINEBRASS! (Hours away - - - >)*



dcoscina @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> Rob Elliott @ Tue Jun 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deal. Expectantly so - I am getting about 120KB/sec on a 5 mb/sec provider. Anyone getting better speeds (latest build of firefox).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got all 5 links DL right now. Some are going at 286 kbps while the slowest is 128 kbps
> 
> I'm heading to bed. By morning everything should be golden. I had to DL the latest Kontakt 4 update before doing this. Seems fine.
> 
> I'm really glad and amazed that CineSamples brought this in at such a good price.
> _-)
Click to expand...


Bummer for me - I have two DL at once. Adding any additional rar links and It just 'divides' the bandwidth. You are getting very decent speeds. You'll have it before midnight. I am hoping by breakfast. :wink:


----------



## james7275

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I was hoping it would be 399, but like eveybody else thought it would be 499. I haven't bought it yet, but give me a few days to hear eveyone rave about it, then i'll give in.


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Woooohoooooo!!! o=< 

Instantly bought it! The price is a real surprise!!! Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I will be using CineBrass for brass, for strings, for drums ... for breakfast... for everything... o=? o=< o-[][]-o 

Thanks a lot, CineSamples, for making such a great lib so affordable! =o 

Marco


----------



## Liverpoolhaze

noob here, and been keeping an eye on this since day one. Downloading now getting between 262-392 kb/sec. : )


----------



## Rob Elliott

Liverpoolhaze @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> noob here, and been keeping an eye on this since day one. Downloading now getting between 262-392 kb/sec. : )




Now getting as low as 50KB/sec (shared between two files - yep 25Kb/sec) :cry: . Looks like it might be breakfast - but the day after tomorrow. I expected something like this but anything I can do? (using Firefox - latest build.)


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I just finished my DL in 30 minutes, give or take a few. I honestly can't imagine you having a computer set to handle breakneck Audio speeds and be bottlenecked by a DL. It has to be your connection. Sorry!!!


----------



## gregjazz

It sounds to me like the download speeds are being affected by locational traffic. You could do a tracert to the download server to see where the snag is happening...


----------



## JT3_Jon

The $399 price isn't a special introductory price or anything, is it?


----------



## Liverpoolhaze

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Liverpoolhaze @ Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:02 pm wrote:
noob here, and been keeping an eye on this since day one. Downloading now getting between 262-392 kb/sec. : )



Now getting as low as 50KB/sec (shared between two files - yep 25Kb/sec) . Looks like it might be breakfast - but the day after tomorrow. I expected something like this but anything I can do? (using Firefox - latest build.)

I'm in the bay area (CA) using comcast via wifi on my imac, (Safari). 4 files left to go 262-438 kb/sec now. Sorry, to hear you're having such slow dl times, Rob. :(


----------



## noiseboyuk

As ever, the Mikes are as good as their word - a no brainer! $399 was my "no brainer" figure, so I feel quite smug. Will be getting shortly, hope the downloads smooth out.

I know this has been said already, but I think CineBrass is the new Gold Standard for sample libraries in terms of information, involving the users, treating the players right and then approach to recording and usability. Oh, and I still remember the extraordinary Haiti fundraiser... truly you folks are the good guys.


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Thank you cinesamples..bought!

Edit: The price was actually 490$ with the VAT.


----------



## NYC Composer

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I'm gonna wait til the dl frenzy is over, then buy it. What a fabulous and really intelligent price. Congrats to you guys. This is only my third purchase from y'all, but I can see many more in my future. Long may you run.


----------



## windshore

Well, finally got downloaded and working. Sounds great. Some minor adjustments to basic patches helps a lot though. Fortunately parameters are easy to get at.
Just to share some first impressions:

My take is that you will want to reduce "Release Delay" considerably on the Low Brass Pads and Reduce Legato Volume on Trumpet Legato patch by about 50%

Not sure I love the articulation presets. They sound good but I'm going to have to figure out how I want to use. At least at the moment getting the differentiation between longer and shorter articulations feels awkward to me, but again they give options which I'll explore.

I'm excited and grateful the price is what it is. You really can't touch this Lib for the price certainly and I'm sure Cinebrass 2 will fill in a few blanks, whenever that comes.

Certainly a "no-brainer"! Congrats to Cinesamples for another great product!


----------



## rpaillot

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



devastat @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> Thank you cinesamples..bought!
> 
> Edit: The price was actually 490$ with the VAT.



You should have put you lived in the USA.
European dont have to pay the VAT for a download buy. I never paid the VAT when buying hollywood winds or cinesnares.


----------



## gregjazz

windshore @ Tue Jun 07 said:


> My take is that you will want to reduce "Release Delay" considerably on the Low Brass Pads


The reason for the default release delay being so long is that it's meant to fill in the gaps between chords while you move your fingers from one chord to another on the keyboard. Of course, we definitely wanted the amount to be adjustable, since some people will want it long while others prefer a shorter release delay.


----------



## Vision

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

2:40 AM Here on the East Coast. Set up a full Cinebrass template in Logic. Only takes 15+ seconds to load all patches. :shock: Adjusted velocity settings and value parameters to my liking.. great stuff Mikes.. sounds great, unbeatable price. Going to bed now. Will be having Cinedreams tonight. o-[][]-o


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



rpaillot @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> devastat @ Tue Jun 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you cinesamples..bought!
> 
> Edit: The price was actually 490$ with the VAT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should have put you lived in the USA.
> European dont have to pay the VAT for a download buy. I never paid the VAT when buying hollywood winds or cinesnares.
Click to expand...


Great! Now you´re telling me this after I have bought almost every CineSamples product there is and for each and every one I have paid additional 19% VAT... >8o 

Know it for the future now  Thanks.

Marco


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



rpaillot @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> You should have put you lived in the USA.
> European dont have to pay the VAT for a download buy. I never paid the VAT when buying hollywood winds or cinesnares.


Thanks for letting me know this. I'll contact Cinesamples and try to get my VAT back.


----------



## noiseboyuk

bryla @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Btw: Europeans DO have to pay VAT for a download buy. They DON'T have to pay customs - two different things. If however there's a way to cheat this system, it's up to you if you cheat it.



I remember Cinesamples looked into it before and decided that they did have to charge VAT. I know one additional area of complexity in a complex area is that what you are buying technically is the license to use, not the samples themselves - that definitely affects import duty on physical goods, for example. I know other companies and retailers have been advised differently on this issue, I wouldn't like to say who is definitively right or wrong.


----------



## rpaillot

bryla @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Btw: Europeans DO have to pay VAT for a download buy. They DON'T have to pay customs - two different things. If however there's a way to cheat this system, it's up to you if you cheat it.



Really ? I didnt know that.
I've never paid a VAT for a download buy, for example : last cinesamples products / Tonehammer.

It would seem rightl to me that a USA made product doesnt have to be VAT-charged by european union.


So wait and see ...


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Nice price ! _-)


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I never paid VAT for anything bought from the US either (download or not). If you are a registered business, you shouldn't have to pay VAT - or if you should, it should be your local (in my case, Danish) VAT, which you will get a refund for later anyway. If I had to pay, say, Dutch VAT on this purchase, then I would not get a refund for that and would pay 19% (or whatever) too much on this purchase. 

Usually if you are a business, you are not going to pay VAT though, most websites have a procedure for this (like Soundsonline in Europe).

Anyway - 399 is a great price, and I'll check out if it tells me to pay VAT or not


EDIT: I can see that I am charged local (Danish) VAT which is all good.


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Contacted Cinesamples about the VAT, let's see what they say.

Downloading.. can't wait but its sooo slow 240kb/sec per file. Listening to "The Pacific" soundtrack in the meanwhile :roll:


----------



## bricop

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Downloading now in the UK for $478.80 (including VAT). Doesn't your browser ISP tell the store where you are buying from?

Anyway, not bothered. I love CineSamples libraries 

Looking forward to it.

Brian


----------



## MaestroRage

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

First library i've ever bought in which I love every single patch.

True there are not THAT many, but each one is a gold mine.

Best 400 bucks ever spent.


----------



## Pedro Camacho

OUT!


----------



## lux

chapeau. 

100% perfect moves, including affordable price. 

Congratulations for the release, within a month i'll get one without any doubt.

Luca


----------



## paoling

This is a no-brainer..!


----------



## Danny_Owen

Can I just ask for anyone who has downloaded the library already, does the solo horn have any dynamic range? I noticed on the overview video that only one voice was coming up per note pressed, which implies only one velocity layer given that they're using crossfade patches. The demo did sound lovely, but I'm wondering if it's flexible.

I know that it's actually a fairly rare thing in cinematic context to have a horn go much past mp-mf on its own, but if I wanted to pair it up with another horn from another library to create an 'a 2' horn patch I'd want to know that the range was there. I'd probably double it up with SampleModelling's horn as soon as that arrives, though they've yet to show their hand! The alternative would to wait and see what EW and co have to offer.

Can't deny the attractiveness of the rest of the library though- amazing value.


----------



## Christian Marcussen

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Nice price. The VAT issue is however extremely annoying and not something I have encountered in any other online purchases (Synths, Tonehammer etc). 

Looking forward to some customer thoughts on the library.


----------



## andreasOL

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

regarding VAT...

...wait until it's available through Big Fish Audio.

They use a different shop system and don't charge VAT (at least the last time I used it).


----------



## IvanP

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

And I was thinking (in a way to avoid spending...) "I would only get this if its 399 or lower)...

Awesome move, Mikes, you guys are leading the way in every direction...


----------



## Hannes_F

German guys, are you all below 17500 EUR annual turnaround? If you are over that amount then you can deduct the VAT anyways (if we get a proper invoice, that is).

This invoice should contain an european VAT number or else the company (neither cinesamples nor fastspring) is not authorised to collect european VAT.

No VAT number on the invoice -> we can _not _deduct it.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Danny_Owen @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Can I just ask for anyone who has downloaded the library already, does the solo horn have any dynamic range? I noticed on the overview video that only one voice was coming up per note pressed, which implies only one velocity layer given that they're using crossfade patches. The demo did sound lovely, but I'm wondering if it's flexible.



I did ask this a couple of pages ago, and Greg said it was 3 layers throughout, 2 layers for the legato transitions only.


----------



## cacophonix

*About VAT*

Hello everybody,

Just a word about VAT, I must confirm that European customers *have* to pay it.

If it was not the case before (and was convenient, I agree), that was only because download products are quite "new". So the economic actors were not aware of the (very elaborate) laws. But if you want to do it "right", you have to charge VAT.

The only (legal) way to not pay VAT is to have, like myself, a VAT number (which implies you charge VAT to your clients)...

Not an easy topic, slightly different for each country and combinations (mix inside/outside EU).


----------



## Danny_Owen

Thanks Guy, must have missed that one! Good to know!


----------



## noiseboyuk

This may be the case Cacaphonix (though I'm still not sure there aren't some grey areas with regard to samples), but the fact is many / most US retailers don't give you the option even. I wouldn't know HOW to pay VAT on most of the US downloads I buy - it literally isn't an option! Just saying, because it does take the responsibility away from the buyer - they may all be breaking the law, I don't know, but I'd argue that is their problem and not ours.


----------



## dedersen

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Re the vat issue. Can't you just enter some US address? I don't suppose the billing address is used for anything? Not strictly legal of course.


----------



## Christian Marcussen

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Listening to the demos again. Sound great. Tempting.


----------



## Hannes_F

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



dedersen @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Re the vat issue. Can't you just enter some US address? I don't suppose the billing address is used for anything? Not strictly legal of course.



I fear in this case we can not deduct the cost of the library at all (applies only to professionals of course).


----------



## dedersen

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Yeah well, music is only a side-income for me so I haven't been deducting sample purchases. But good point.

Can a moderator cut out the VAT-related posts and make a new thread on this issue? It feels a bit wrong to be discussing it in this thread, which should be reserved for discussing the awesomeness that is Cinebrass. Also, considering the fantastic price the Mikes have set for this, I feel almost ungrateful to be moaning about an additional 25%.


----------



## Hannes_F

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



dedersen @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Yeah well, music is only a side-income for me so I haven't been deducting sample purchases. But good point.



It does not matter whether it is a side income or main income, as soon as you have any business (= income or expected income) in that field you can deduct your expenses.

You can even make loss for three years before the authorities start questioning whether your business is a hobby or really intended to earn money and want to see a surplus (at least this is the case in Germany). So for everybody starting out it might be well worth to learn proper book-keeping and be informed about tax declaration possibilities. This could save you hundreds to thousands.



> Can a moderator cut out the VAT-related posts and make a new thread on this issue? It feels a bit wrong to be discussing it in this thread, which should be reserved for discussing the awesomeness that is Cinebrass. Also, considering the fantastic price the Mikes have set for this, I feel almost ungrateful to be moaning about an additional 25%.



+1


----------



## Markus S

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I'd be curious to hear more audio demos, is there only one up? I'm impressed with the video introduction, the demo sounds good, but I'd like to hear the stuff in full orchestral context, more musical use.


----------



## Melvin Frohike

Just FYI: If I buy from audiobro I don't have to pay VAT.
I'm from Germany
Since music is just a hobby for me I can't deduct the VAT.


----------



## sin(x)

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I just ordered Cinebrass (Germany here) and I can acknowledge that the invoice you get from Fastspring does have a EU VAT ID, which should be sufficient to deduct the VAT. I'm not sure their invoice complies with all EU specifications (it doesn't have an invoice or service provision date per se, just a payment date), nor if it'd have to (after all, it's still a US invoice), but for now I guess it's safe to assume that the VAT thing is properly implemented.


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



Markus S @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> I'd be curious to hear more audio demos, is there only one up? I'm impressed with the video introduction, the demo sounds good, but I'd like to hear the stuff in full orchestral context, more musical use.



I think with the obvious success of this library you will be happy if you hear some demo tracks posted here that are NOT using CineBrass in the coming days/weeks 

I´m sure there will be tons of user demos...

Daniel James, where are you???  Some video???  

Marco


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Oh my godness playing with the solo trumpet and it sounds just SO realistic. Unbelievable, couldn't tell the difference between this and a real one.


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



devastat @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Oh my godness playing with the solo trumpet and it sounds just SO realistic. Unbelievable, couldn't tell the difference between this and a real one.



how about the little tuning issues? All gone?

Thx.
Marco


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Hmm. I am quite newbie in this field I am not sure, but occasionally it does sounds like the instrument might be slightly out of tune, but in a realistic way in my opinion. But I have to say that this library is truly amazing!

I'll definitely write some music soon for this and my newly bought Lass LS strings and it might sound hyper realistic..


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



devastat @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Hmm. I am quite newbie in this field I am not sure what you are talking of, but occasionally it does sounds like the instrument might be slightly out of tune, but in a realistic way in my opinion. But I have to say that this library is amazing!



Thanks! In the official trumpet demo video there were some samples that seemed out of tune quite a bit and they promised to correct them (which I believe they did  )

Listen to this early demo (e.g. the note just before the last one)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHW4SYJrmpg&NR=1


Marco


----------



## Danny_Owen

With those two new purchases perhaps do the solo horn section from Leia's theme in Star Wars if you have the score? Only instruments there are Sordino strings and Solo Fr Horn


----------



## Chris Hein

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Purchase and download completed.

I like this one:
IMPORTANT: These files have been watermarked with unique information specific to you, and can be traced back to your order information. Your IP address is also logged and monitored by our provider. Do NOT share this library.

Chris Hein


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



Chris Hein @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Purchase and download completed.
> 
> I like this one:
> IMPORTANT: These files have been watermarked with unique information specific to you, and can be traced back to your order information. Your IP address is also logged and monitored by our provider. Do NOT share this library.
> 
> Chris Hein



That´s cool and another nice anti piracy feature is the price they´ve chosen 

Marco


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Well, it seems that there is no reason for anyone to record orchestral brass live anymore on film scores..



Just kidding.


----------



## rannar

Bought it, download in progress. awesome pricing! The Mikes are pretty smart I see... after all the hype this low price will attract a lot of instant buyers, that maybe otherwise would have taken it slow, saving up, or waiting for other developers libs to be released and then making their decision.


----------



## Hannes_F

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



sin(x) @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> I just ordered Cinebrass (Germany here) and I can acknowledge that the invoice you get from Fastspring does have a EU VAT ID, which should be sufficient to deduct the VAT. I'm not sure their invoice complies with all EU specifications (it doesn't have an invoice or service provision date per se, just a payment date), nor if it'd have to (after all, it's still a US invoice), but for now I guess it's safe to assume that the VAT thing is properly implemented.



+ 1
Just be sure to click on the link embedded on Cinesamples' first confirmation email and then the invoice opens (it would be fully in accordance with EU standards if it had a delivery date but whatever, all is good from my end).


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Here is a test I just made with Cinebrass & Lass LS Strings: http://soundcloud.com/devastat/cinebrass-test

I am quite disappointed that in the solo horn (that I am using in this example) you cannot create accents with a modwheel. You can do that only on a multiple horns patch.


----------



## Ed

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



devastat @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> I am quite disappointed that in the solo horn (that I am using in this example) you cannot create accents with a modwheel. You can do that only on a multiple horns patch.



What do you mean?


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Its a bit hard to explain but for example the patch with multiple legato horns changes the dynamic of playing when adjusting modwheel, but the solo legato horn doesn't do that. The only way for me to create nuances is by sliding the volume up and down, unless if I have misunderstood completely. I haven't read the manual yet, but at least the modwheel isn't affecting the sound such as it is in the "multiple legato horns" patch..


----------



## Chris Hein

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Were is the ADSR control?

Chris Hein


----------



## Ed

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



Chris Hein @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Were is the ADSR control?
> Chris Hein



If the patches are unlocked, can't you just go to modulation and change it if they didn't give you one on the front panel?


----------



## dedersen

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Argh, I am dying to get back home so I can buy this. I had been considering whether to wait until next month, but there is no way I am gonna be able to keep my credit card in my wallet once I get back home. It's rare that I have been THIS excited about a new product.


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



devastat @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Its a bit hard to explain but for example the patch with multiple legato horns changes the dynamic of playing when adjusting modwheel, but the solo legato horn doesn't do that. The only way for me to create nuances is by sliding the volume up and down, unless if I have misunderstood completely. I haven't read the manual yet, but at least the modwheel isn't affecting the sound such as it is in the "multiple legato horns" patch..




I am curious about the solo horn 'expression' as well. Any option other then volume modeling?

Boy this 'room' sounds so sweet (have half a mind to set up my template with room only mics - with a skosh of the M7)


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



Rob Elliott @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> I am curious about the solo horn 'expression' as well. Any option other then volume modeling?



Yes it is quite surprising given the fact that all other instruments, solo trumpet and tuba has this dynamics set up into the mod wheel but for some reason solo horn doesn't have that. Perhaps cinesamples run out of time and it will be included in a future update? At least I really do hope so..


----------



## mverta

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Guys, what am I missing? All the sustain patches - actually anything other than the staccatos - seem to have a long release on notes, making nimble passages impossible. I didn't see an envelope adjustment in the manual. When I lift my finger off the key, I need the sound to stop  Modwheel-controlled dynamic sustains are nearly the only version of sounds I need...

_Mike


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Try pushing the keys very lightly


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

I must also chime in and see I was surprised that I couldn't change the tone of the solo horn.


----------



## mverta

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I know you haven't read the manual, but I'm using the Keyswitch Velo Dyn Map template, as I find having velocity control length of note counter-intuitive as a keyboard player. In that mode, velocity does not affect sample length. And in any case, I'm talking about the release envelope, after the note is lifted.

My question stands.


_Mike


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Based on how the solo trumpet is working, I'm thinking that the solo horn is missing or not reading one of the velocity layers.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

I'm also finding the legato in general very sluggish when playing even moderately fast. I may be way off, but it sounds like something that could be fixed in the programming. 

I would also welcome the ability to turn on and off release samples, if that doesn't exist already.


----------



## mverta

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I made a quick recording of the issue I'm having - I MUST be overlooking something obvious! Have a listen:

Testing Cinesamples Brass


_Mike


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I think library is a bargain at 399. the legato trumpets are excellent. I am however having an issue with the legato horns at the higher velocities. They play sluggish making the patch pretty unusable unless there is considerable tweaking after the fact. The beauty of library is the concise programming allowing for quick writing but this patch defies that because of its slow playability. I'm sure it will be fixed but mentioning it here to get it noticed.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

I hope that we will have some serious ba!!s in terms of solo instrument dynamics with a future version/update, because both solo instruments are best suited for lyrical passages, IMHO. What if I want a mean solo horn?


----------



## Ed

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



mverta @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> I made a quick recording of the issue I'm having - I MUST be overlooking something obvious! Have a listen:
> 
> Testing Cinesamples Brass



hehe you did a podcast on it. Anyway weird. I know you don't like the velocity mapping but is it the same there? I don't understand because in Mike's patch run through it seems to work fine?

Im still trying to download it, 3 files got stuck half way and had to restart them


----------



## KLS

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



mverta @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> I made a quick recording of the issue I'm having - I MUST be overlooking something obvious! Have a listen:
> 
> Testing Cinesamples Brass
> 
> 
> _Mike



It's not just you - I'm having the same problem - setting the release delay in the edit tab down from 50ms to 10ms(which is the shortest) helps somewhat, but not enough imo.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



mverta @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> I made a quick recording of the issue I'm having - I MUST be overlooking something obvious! Have a listen:
> 
> Testing Cinesamples Brass
> 
> 
> _Mike



With the trumpets, maybe _I'm_ missing something, Mike, but shouldn't you be using legato patches for the quick lines? What I hear with the trumpets is what normal basic sus patches sound like with room embedded (and one of the main reasons I'm so interested in this lib, cos it has true legato). The horns are a little more concerning, cos that IS legato and it does still sound more muddy than I'd hope, curious to hear Greg or a Mike's comment on that.


----------



## mverta

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Legato samples have the same problem, as you note. But ensemble-wise, I can't do chords of any length either, as I demonstrated in the podcast. My usual template sources (VSL/The Trumpet) actually handle both staccato and flowing lyrical lines all within one patch, and that goes for chords, as well. The issue here is that there's no explicit control over note length. (!) So, sure, you can use a legato patch for lines, but all that should be is a superlative version of what you'd get without the fancy legato transitions between notes.


_Mike


----------



## Elektroakoustika

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



mverta @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> I made a quick recording of the issue I'm having - I MUST be overlooking something obvious! Have a listen:
> 
> Testing Cinesamples Brass
> 
> 
> _Mike



I was a little worried this would happen... I am really hoping that the Mikes figure out a way to do some nimble articulated patches. Which is essential to writing really good brass music. The three different length short notes don't really cut it for those needs. :(

The samples and legato sounds beautiful though! But I shall wait to see if there will be a Cinebrass expansion or if another company pulls through with a high quality library.

Nonetheless, congrats Mike and Mike on the release. I really hope it goes well for you and that you can expand it in the future.

-ea


----------



## windshore

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



mverta @ 6/8/2011 said:


> I made a quick recording of the issue I'm having - I MUST be overlooking something obvious! Have a listen:
> Testing Cinesamples Brass
> 
> _Mike



Having the same issue here. I've recorded a melody twice using the ensemble articulation preset.

http://windshoremusic.com/demos/cinebrassmelodymh.aif

I need to have a bit of connectivity between long quarters so I've done this 2 ways. The first Melody is done using velocity to trigger the longer articulations. The 2nd way is by using the pedal to trigger legato. Seems like this could be fixed by creating a "Solo" mode for the ensemble patch &/ or some other adjustment to note lengths so they don't spill into each other. (The sound of introducing the legato mode in the 2nd example seems a bit out of character with the other notes.) I think these things can be addressed with an update.... I know they were listening to us when we said we wanted it right away!


----------



## mverta

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Yes, as you mention, neither of your attempts are particularly convincing, for no fault of your own. 

I'm still skeptical that we're not overlooking something; no two notes in any patch other than staccato have realistic transitions? That can't be. I mean, it's not even legato if the first note is sustaining under the second note! This just can't be.

Now, in my *initial recording*, I compared characteristics to The Trumpet, which may not be quite a 1:1 comparison, as The Trumpet can't do chords, either! But *using my default, single articulation on my standard template*, this sort of thing is not only possible, but essential, in my view.

Come on, fellow Mikes - set us straight!


_Mike


----------



## Cinesamples

Hi guys, MP here.
Thanks for the feedback and the audio examples.
I am confused slightly by mverta's audio demo, it sounds like you are trying to play quick passages using a bunch of sustain samples (without legato). That would sound like garbage with any library! 
You need to switch between the artics within a phrase to get that note clarity you are looking for.
As for the legato patches, they work best with soaring lines, or delicate lyrical melodies. The script does indeed analyze your speed of playing and will shorten or lengthen the legato depending on speed and/or velocity. We will continue to improve. 
Just a side-note with my composer hat on: be sure to adhere to principles of sample writing in all of your mockup work: and that is to keep passages idiomatic for the instruments, and to stay within the strengths of a library.
Everything is tweakable of course, and we ask that you continue to offer up comments for us to improve on this library that we are so proud of. 
The response has been overwhelmingly positive, and we are so happy for that.


----------



## mverta

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I _did_ use the legato samples, as well, to illustrate the issue was across the board. But it was in anticipation of your reply Mike, that I made sure to do the second comparison as well - there are note values in music between totally sustained and staccato as you well know. What I don't know how to do is control that. Switching between articulations yields wildly different sounds/qualities, which makes it impossible to be convincing, as windshore demonstrated aptly. Even doing "sustained" chords one after the other using the sustain patches seems impossible for me to control, as the blur between release of the first chord and the attack of the second is omnipresent. 

It's sounding like you're saying this is just what it is, plus perhaps a caveat that a programming update one day may rectify the issues for people like me. Am I reading that right?


_Mike


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I'm also having problems with notes bleeding into each other. Also, some of the transitions are too slow for the true legato no matter what speed I play. I definitely think a sustain/decay/release editing control would be the fix to a lot of these problems. I had the same problem with EWQLSO and I had to edit almost EVERY single patch, but in the end I had a decent sound to work with.


----------



## Cinesamples

Just an FYI: We highly recommend you watch this video before using the library. For best results!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeogtxDedT4


----------



## mverta

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Right, Blake, but the C and F in the middle/ends of the phrase are not sustaining correctly - those are not the values in the line. 


I had a nice chat with Mike #1 (Mike #2?) at Cinesamples a few moments ago, who encouraged me to really give the velocity-based articulations a shot, before pronouncing judgement, to give the library a chance to be used as intended, which may be different from what I was expecting. Sounded more than fair to me, especially because I want this library to work as much as anyone! So I'm going to give that a run. Mike is certainly right that libraries should be used as they were designed to be used, and not shoehorned into something else's workflow. I'll give it a run and report back...!


_Mike


----------



## noiseboyuk

Blake - Mike did clearly say the second example on his video was a true legato patch. I agree trying fast lines on a non-legato patch is pretty much a waste of time (to compare with the anechoic chamber recorded sample modelling really is apples and oranges), but to my ears I have to say the fast legato doesn't sound right at this time.

Listening again to the original patch walkthrough which sounded so outstanding, all the legato lines are slower in tempo. This clearly works par excellence. So it looks to me like it just needs some tweeks on the faster stuff... I clearly hear the notes bleeding into each other which is a very artificial sound. I don't think it's unreasonable to be able to play some fast legato lines - it's pretty common stuff!

I've no doubt the Cine guys will get there on this. It has been a breakneck schedule and a fantastic endeavour - perhaps our collective expectation demanded superhuman feats! There's clearly some terrific stuff right out of the blocks here, and looking forward to hearing the next versions after some tweekage.

EDIT (gee this is an uber-fast moving thread!) - for me the velocity vs keyswitch approach is a side issue, as this doesn't affect the legato patches anyway. Keen to hear some tweeks on the legato script for fast passages.


----------



## gregjazz

Regarding the release, bear in mind the room that the library was recorded in. Of course Sample Modeling's The Trumpet will have less release--it was recorded in an anechoic chamber so there's absolutely no room reverb whatsoever.

However, one thing you could try beyond the other suggestions in previous posts, is to click that wrench icon on the instrument. Then, with the script editor open, and on the "Note Handler" tab, you should see a knob called "Rel. Delay". This release delay control helps bridge the gap between chords, as well as assist in detecting reattacks in the legato patches. It's set to 50 ms by default, but you can decrease it for a faster release response.


----------



## JB78

Anyone know how long it takes to get help from the cinesamples support team? I have downloaded all the rar-files but for some reason the link to the instruments file containing all the NKI's is broken so I'm out of luck. I used the support form on the site a couple of hours ago and I'm just wondering what kind of waiting time I'm looking at. (Can't wait!)

Best regards
Jon


----------



## Ed

As I say I can't check this myself yet as its still downloading, but I noticed this long release in Requiem as well... all the maratos and staccatos had the full release, I don't know how you're mean't to use it that way, as it turns out all I had to do is turn the release down, but the fact that it was there to begin with leads me to think some people use libraries in very different ways... maybe CS can tell us if its the same with CS Brass, is there a reason why the releases play the full sample rather than stopping when you release the key? Unless I've misunderstood what the problem is.


----------



## Ed

JB78 @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Anyone know how long it takes to get help from the cinesamples support team? I have downloaded all the rar-files but for some reason the link to the instruments file containing all the NKI's is broken so I'm out of luck. I used the support form on the site a couple of hours ago and I'm just wondering what kind of waiting time I'm looking at. (Can't wait!)



Did you watch the installation video? Did you make sure the files downloaded fully?


----------



## JB78

Ed @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> JB78 @ Wed Jun 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know how long it takes to get help from the cinesamples support team? I have downloaded all the rar-files but for some reason the link to the instruments file containing all the NKI's is broken so I'm out of luck. I used the support form on the site a couple of hours ago and I'm just wondering what kind of waiting time I'm looking at. (Can't wait!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you watch the installation video? Did you make sure the files downloaded fully?
Click to expand...

Hey Ed,

I got 6 links in the mail from CS, the 5 rar-files and an instrument zipfile. The rar-files are all downloaded and unrared without a problem, the zipfile however was 19 kb when I first tried it and it wouldn't open. I checked it out and that file is supposed to be around 4 megs right, I tried dl again but got re-routed to a "file not found" page on the website.


----------



## bwherry

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Doh! I'm getting a "This patch is encrypted and cannot be loaded unless the respective Library is registered properly" dialog when I try to load any of the CineBrass patches. :( 

I've got the CineBrass library added to Kontakt, and activated w/ the Service Center. Then I restarted Kontakt (no more "Activate" button for CineBrass anymore, CineBrass isn't present in Service Center's "Activate" tab anymore). But I get the "This patch is encrypted and cannot be loaded unless the respective Library is registered properly" dialog when I try to load any of the patches. I also restarted the machine - didn't help. I did veryify all the downloaded .rar files are the correct size and my directory structure in the CineBrass folder is correct. This is a Windows XP x64 machine, Kontakt 4.2.3.4914. Any ideas? I need to go to work now - so I'll have to stay jealous of y'all for another several hours... :(

I guess I should contact Cinesamples support directly on this one... will do that as well.

Thanks,

Brian


----------



## devastat

CineSamples @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Everything is tweakable of course, and we ask that you continue to offer up comments for us to improve on this library that we are so proud of.


Hi and thanks for an amazing library!

Just one quick question, in the solo trumpet you can adjust the velocity (or expression?) by using the mod-wheel but with solo horn there is no such option. Is this going to be possible in the solo horn as well in the future updates?

Thanks!


----------



## Cinesamples

Wrote you back Jon. You're good to go now! Sorry for delay, morning here in LA.


----------



## JB78

CineSamples @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Wrote you back Jon. You're good to go now! Sorry for delay, morning here in LA.



Just got the mail, thanks Mike!


----------



## Cinesamples

bwherry, restart Kontakt and your sequencer, and you'll be good to go.
MP


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I can assure you that I've watched that video like 10 times! haha. Anyways, regarding the release trails in the true legato, I'm mostly having problems with the Trumpet Ensemble Patch. Some of the legato transitions are really slow and the release trails really bleed into each other. I don't have this problem nearly at all with the Horn Ensemble Patch. 

Also, like other members I must ask why there is no modwheel control for the solo horn patch? The solo trumpet modwheel dynamics could be a bit wider in my opinion as well. It seems like it only goes from p to mf.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



bwherry @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Doh! I'm getting a "This patch is encrypted and cannot be loaded unless the respective Library is registered properly" dialog when I try to load any of the CineBrass patches. :(



I had this exact same problem with LASS LS - I think there is something a little buggy about the latest version of Kontakt and adding new libraries. A restart didn't help me, but here's what worked:

Remove the library from Kontakt by clicking the cog icon on the library header itself, then "remove library". Close Kontakt completely and restart, then add the library again - voila.


----------



## gregjazz

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



Casey Edwards @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Some of the legato transitions are really slow and the release trails really bleed into each other. I don't have this problem nearly at all with the Horn Ensemble Patch.


The legato transition volume control not only controls the volume of the transitions, but also affects their speed, so you can tweak that to your preferences. It can be automated to a CC # also, by right-clicking on the slider.


----------



## Cinesamples

All of the Legato patches have 3 dynamic layers, with morphing, except for the solo horn which is focused on a solid mp/mf tone.

By the way. We have.... something up our sleeve. Just wait.


----------



## Ed

> Also, like other members I must ask why there is no modwheel control for the solo horn patch? The solo trumpet modwheel dynamics could be a bit wider in my opinion as well. It seems like it only goes from p to mf.



I think we just have to probably accept that the solo brass are quite limited in CS Brass for now. We'll get an update paid or otherwise I'm sure later on, paid updates with additional samples is perfectly alright with me. In fact if they do it right... I kind of like it this way... So... solo brass expansion and fast articulations. Chop chop get back in there Mikes.


----------



## bwherry

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



noiseboyuk @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> bwherry @ Wed Jun 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doh! I'm getting a "This patch is encrypted and cannot be loaded unless the respective Library is registered properly" dialog when I try to load any of the CineBrass patches. :(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had this exact same problem with LASS LS - I think there is something a little buggy about the latest version of Kontakt and adding new libraries. A restart didn't help me, but here's what worked:
> 
> Remove the library from Kontakt by clicking the cog icon on the library header itself, then "remove library". Close Kontakt completely and restart, then add the library again - voila.
Click to expand...


Oh, great. Phew! Will try that when I get home. Thanks Guy!


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I'm working on replacing the Brass in this piece that I wrote:

http://soundcloud.com/caseyedwards/the-spirit-of-adventure

This piece has a lot of brass activity, both fore, middle, and background. So I think it's a good test, as well as a way for me to see how to work with this library. There's always a learning curve, no matter how intuitive. Let's see if I can make this puppy obey!! :D


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

The brass library is so amazing that I just wish now that Cinesamples would release CineWinds soon.. can't wait


----------



## Windle

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Here's a question for the Mikes or any Kontakt expert.....

How can I make a regular keyswitch patch?

This is what I'd like for the Trumpet Ensemble Articulations:

C0 - Sustain
D0- Short 1/2
E0- Short 1/4
F0- Short 1/8.

When I go into the Custom Map it always oscillates between short/sustain at a velocity of choice but no "Off" option.

I really don't want a patch where I have to watch the velocity I play at - very annoying - much better playing the part with expression in the right and using the keyswitches with the left. I ride the CCs in the next pass.

I really thought that the Keyswitch Map (which was described as "old skool" in the video) would be this.

Any help appreciated.

W.


----------



## Cinesamples

Windle: There is no "off" button for the short/sustain split.. just putting it to "0" turns it off.


----------



## Windle

CineSamples @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Windle: There is no "off" button for the short/sustain split.. just putting it to "0" turns it off.



Great - that did it. Thank you.

W.


----------



## booboo

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

The timbre of this lib is fantastic and I'm excited to use it, but I'm having a few programming issues.

I'm a bit confused by the release tails as well. Even only using the close samples only, it's still problem unless your playing VERY slow lines. (For the record, I feel that mverta's concerns are the OTHER extreme. But we should be able to do the occasional 8th tie at 120).


> I'm noticing that part of the problem is that the SECOND NOTE of a legato interval needs quite a bit of "uninterrupted" time to do engage the legato connection, otherwise it won't even execute and then just function as a sustain patch


. EDIT: My quote is user error - I was in poly mode by accident.
Is there a way to taper the release responses of the "true legato" samples? Even if it means punching in a few numbers in the script, I'd be happy to do it to get it working.

+1 to Sharmys note that Horn ensembles can't really be played without post data entry in as of right now.

I'm also finding that solo horn only has a single dynamic, which can't be right. what CC is that assigned to?


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

After spending more time with it:

OH MY DOES THIS LIB SOUND GREAT! 

o=? o=? o=? o=? o=?


----------



## FireGS

CineSamples @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> By the way. We have.... something up our sleeve. Just wait.


----------



## rJames

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

2 notes are not looping for me in the Trombones ens patch. Ab2 and A2.

Anyone else? I've had the same results in keyswitch mode and original mode.

Hope its OK to gather all glitches in this thread...


----------



## dcoscina

I'm still downloading this....bad lightening storm last night made me shut off the computer. Can't really take any chances...


----------



## Cinesamples

rJames, works okay over here. Anyone else confirm?


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

No problems with the looping in Trombones for me. I'm using the Keyswitch program.


----------



## gregjazz

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



rJames @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> 2 notes are not looping for me in the Trombones ens patch. Ab2 and A2.
> 
> Anyone else? I've had the same results in keyswitch mode and original mode.


They loop fine here, and I tried the Ab and As in other octaves too, just in case there's a disparity in our octave number definition.


----------



## Cinesamples

Re: VAT.
If you have a VAT ID. Be sure to enter in your company name in the company field, then the VAT ID box will show up. Here you can enter the VAT ID, and the tax will be waived.

For some reason, the company field was removed. The company field is now back in. If you have a VAT ID, and you paid VAT on CineBrass, email us and FastSpring will refund the tax to you.

Email us with any other questions regarding VAT.
[email protected]


----------



## Ed

wtf I was just playing it and then go to load a new patch and it says "this patch was created with a newer version of Kontakt", but I was just using it!!! It does that with all the patches now!

edit: reloaded Kontakt, didn't make a difference, restarted DAW didn,t make a difference. But for some reason still works in standalone and in VE PRO. Granted one is 64 bit the othe ris not, but I dont see how I was just using it and suddenly it doesn't work in the other version anymore. Oh well doesn't matter, tis just weird.


----------



## Mr. Anxiety

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Hey Mikes(s),

I'm sure I speak for more than myself when I say Bravo! to the new brass library. It sounds fantastic and will be extremely helpful in realizing a lot of music with our sampled orchestra.

Like any new product, there are growing pains on both sides, and all I ask is that everyone stay calm and I'm sure things will sort themselves out with all of our concerns. I certainly would like any new library to perform exactly like I need for my particular workflow, but that isn't usually case, and most of the time I learn something new about how to tackle music data entry from a new library which has a unique way of interfacing with the user.

Hang in there Mike(s) and we'll get this happening!

Mr Anxiety


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

My Ab2 and A2 in the Trombone ens are fine too..

Cheers,


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

I'm having problems finding the Cb and the E# for some reason.


----------



## Ed

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

First thoughts... *sounds AMAZING*. Im comparing the sound to Apollo 13 and its *practically identical* out of the box. So awesome... The Briscati verb is so nice and totally unique for a sample library.

I do think the legato needs some work, for example at high dynamics it all kind of falls apart almost completely for me, but works much better in softer range. When they do an expansion (yes yes please) I also really hope they capture faster legato as they can seem sluggish at times and this can ruin the effect. There's also some tuning issues with some of the transitions, which mostly isn't a problem so long as you're in the usual range. Legato also seems to work better in the Solo instruments, but maybe thats because they don't have a FF layer anyway.

The velocity mapping will take some getting used to because my damn controller (Korg Triton) only seems to catch the middle range, even though I can change how sensitive it is, if I set it high I then can't play that softly and if I set it low I can't get the high dynamics and therefore long notes. Custom mapping is great and really easy to understand but doesn't help too much to solve this problem because it's clearly my controller thats at fault.

The trombones are the best i've ever heard, I love the short notes. In fact the whole articulations patches are really Instant John Williams to me when I play it :D Only problem is I am to incompetent to write as good as him haha. I think if you've always wanted Williams' brass from his action music like in Star Wars I think CS Brass is THE library for that, literally.

 I think CS Brass is a wonderful start, I say "start" because it could be totally brilliant if gaps were filled in and a few issues sorted out *and *it only cost $399 and most of these big libraries cost about $1200 + to me means if you add a couple more expansions taking care of these other features it will be able to competently play just about whatever you want (normal playing) and cost the same as a normal library. That's my dream anyway... in the mean time, this is a total no brainer even though it has flaws.

PS: I don't get this problem MIke was having, so long as you play it the way it was intended.


----------



## Ashermusic

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

o[]) 

It's 1.0, guys, it is not unexpected that there will be some glitches and a learning curve.


----------



## Ed

One tip.... 

I like the panning to be more pronounced, and its really easy to make it sound good with CS Brass quickly. Just select the reverb mix to another output like St2, then pan that left or right depending if its horns or trumpets or whatever. If you just pan the whole thing it sounds wrong, but do it this way it sounds much more natural. 

Now you can do that with other libs but here is SO easy here because of the reverb stem and the front panel is so easy to use and customisable. You don't need any other verb on this.

EDIT: What am I saying! I don';t mean pan the verb, pan the main mike you're using! The vern stays in the middle!


----------



## cc64

Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> I'm having problems finding the Cb and the E# for some reason.



They actually recorded an A## and an Gbb but purists like you would say that there is a difference of one coma, even Zdeno Chara can't hear this and like Jay says it's 1.0 cut the guys some slack get back to your beloved Bruins Grrr.

Claude


----------



## booboo

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



Ashermusic @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> o[])
> 
> It's 1.0, guys, it is not unexpected that there will be some glitches and a learning curve.



Agreed. Some of it's frustrating, but as long as a satisfactory update occurs, then it's totally understandable. (except for the solo horn not having any dynamics - even within the 'soft' range...that's tough).

But we gotta report back, both for the developers and to help potential customers make an informed decision. :wink:


----------



## FireGS

Retracted.


----------



## Cinesamples

Yeah, that's why the thread is here... and not on cinesamples.com where we can control everything. We're not afraid... 

Please post all honest comments, and suggestions. Let's make this as good as it can be - and like I said earlier... just wait and see what we have going on over here...


----------



## Ashermusic

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



booboo @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Ashermusic @ Wed Jun 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> o[])
> 
> It's 1.0, guys, it is not unexpected that there will be some glitches and a learning curve.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. Some of it's frustrating, but as long as a satisfactory update occurs, then it's totally understandable. (except for the solo horn not having any dynamics - even within the 'soft' range...that's tough).
> 
> But we gotta report back, both for the developers and to help potential customers make an informed decision. :wink:
Click to expand...


I know but the response to the release seemed to me to be somewhat hysterical and now the response to encounters actually using it seems to me somewhat hysterical.

it's just a sample library.


----------



## Ed

CineSamples @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Please post all honest comments, and suggestions. Let's make this as good as it can be - and like I said earlier... just wait and see what we have going on over here...



A really easy way to easily make the articulations patch more playable (*although I should be clear, I think this is essential*) is to include a release knob, you can assign it to a CC so you could control it in real time if you wanted...

.... I know its been said before, but unlike some others I am using it the way its meant to be used... in my first test I played a line from Star Wars, it sounded really good except the gap between Short 1/8 notes and Short 1/4 notes needed to be shorter, or if I had two 1/4 notes too close together, but where a 1/8 note would have been too short.. Only problem is there is currently no way to solve this issue even though it would be so simple to do. I can upload an example if you don't understand what I mean. It is not necessary to have a release on the 1/8 notes, in fact I would say *do NOT apply release to the 1/8 notes* AT ALL, but on the longer notes I think its definitely a must.

If I have a release knob it means I can dial down the release so when I release the key or the note event stops the sample fades out quickly then it will solve this problem completely I think! Otherwise it can create a blur effect, even used as intended, but I think this is a very easy fix right there, right? 

I'd just go to modulation and turn it down but there are no ADSR controls.


----------



## booboo

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



Ashermusic @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> I know but the response to the release seemed to me to be somewhat hysterical and now the response to encounters actually using it seems to me somewhat hysterical.
> 
> it's just a sample library.



Yes. My computer is only a computer as well. But taking an interest in it's reliability isn't really laughable I think...


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I think the release issues are probably the biggest as mentioned by others. The good news is there is a lot of great stuff here. I am really enjoying the multis which allow me to do things I can't do with other libs.


----------



## Ed

Ok so here is what I mean.... 

[mp3]http://edbradshawmusic.com/CS_Brass_Art_Test_Starwars_phrase.mp3[/mp3]
http://www.edbradshawmusic.com/CS_Brass_Art_Test_Starwars_phrase.mp3 (www.edbradshawmusic.com/CS_Brass_Art_Te ... phrase.mp3)

Its quite subtle but it does make a difference. It would be even more noticable at even faster tempos still. The 1/4 notes sort of blend which creates more of a disjointed effect in the phrase.

Also, do you noitice a few ...I cant describe, knock artifacts in the trumpets in this example?

PS: The sound is freakin awesome... 




Ed @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> A really easy way to easily make the articulations patch more playable (*although I should be clear, I think this is essential*) is to include a release knob, you can assign it to a CC so you could control it in real time if you wanted...
> 
> .... I know its been said before, but unlike some others I am using it the way its meant to be used... in my first test I played a line from Star Wars, it sounded really good except the gap between Short 1/8 notes and Short 1/4 notes needed to be shorter, or if I had two 1/4 notes too close together, but where a 1/8 note would have been too short.. Only problem is there is currently no way to solve this issue even though it would be so simple to do. I can upload an example if you don't understand what I mean. It is not necessary to have a release on the 1/8 notes, in fact I would say *do NOT apply release to the 1/8 notes* AT ALL, but on the longer notes I think its definitely a must.
> 
> If I have a release knob it means I can dial down the release so when I release the key or the note event stops the sample fades out quickly then it will solve this problem completely I think! Otherwise it can create a blur effect, even used as intended, but I think this is a very easy fix right there, right?
> 
> I'd just go to modulation and turn it down but there are no ADSR controls.


----------



## FireGS

FireGS @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> [mp3]http://aixsyd.com/music/sith2.mp3[/mp3]
> 
> Opening from Revenge of the Sith.
> 
> Thoughts?



Some more Star Wars for ya'll.


----------



## Ed

@FireGS:

It sounds very authentic! Sounds exactly the way its supposed to, to me. I think the room, engineer and players really paid off and is a testament to how important that is.


----------



## FireGS

I'd have to agree with that, Ed.


----------



## Cinesamples

How about this:

Option 1: in the scripting we can have a couple more lengths in between 1/8 and 1/4?

Option 2: have the velocity value determine the length, so that it just gradually is longer the higher the velocity, instead of just having 3 artics, but having... essentially 127 different lengths? From super short 1/8 all the way up to long 1/2?

Or, option 3: have the 1/4's and 1/2's respond to release trigger instead of a one-shot sample?

Thoughts?


----------



## FireGS

IMO, Option 2, if it sounds right, which I have full faith. Option 2 would bring it closer to SampleModeling playability, imo.


----------



## Ed

CineSamples @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> How about this:
> 
> Option 1: in the scripting we can have a couple more lengths in between 1/8 and 1/4?



If thats possible then definitely! How would you accomplish that though? 

Do you see the problem I pointed out?



> Option 2: have the velocity value determine the length, so that it just gradually is longer the higher the velocity, instead of just having 3 artics, but having... essentially 127 different lengths? From super short 1/8 all the way up to long 1/2?



Well it all depends. I mean the 1/8 notes are already pretty damn short, they don't need to be much shorter as far as I can see, maybe a little if it would be possible I guess. The main issue is when you have two 1/4 notes close together they blur, but you can't pick the 1/8 note because that sounds too short. If you gave us a shorther note than the 1/4 note but longer than an 1/8 note and a shorter note than the 1/2 note but longer than the 1/4 note that would probably be enough. If you're saying you could do better than that, this would be even better!

This would mean no need for a release trigger in my opinion. Would you be time stretching them? It could work so long as it was smooth I guess.

It would also mean a more realistic phrase I would think, right? Since you get to choose a more appropriate length rather than cutting off one prematurely.



> Or, option 3: have the 1/4's and 1/2's respond to release trigger instead of a one-shot sample?



If the above was possible I would prefer it over the release trigger since you'd loose the ambience of the verb which only works if it is allowed to ring out I would think?


----------



## FireGS

Just want to say, Mike and Mike, and Greg, you all are awesome for taking our feedback SO constructively. Seriously, I dont think any other devs out there have THIS close of a relationship with their customers. Keep this up, and maybe other devs will follow suit.


----------



## Ed

Also have you considered a little bit of fake SIPS style legato we could throw in occasionally and just lightly on some trasitions for phrases like the one I posted? That would be pretty awesome... dunno how that would work though, and I wouldn;t want it on all the time, a CC fader would be good :D


----------



## paoling

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I haven't Cinebrass (yet) but to me the smartest thing is the option 3. 

If you play a 1/2 and release that note, you'll hear just the tail of reverb as a release sample (while the normal sample will fade in < than 100 milliseconds).
This can give some good results, in my opinion.

Articulation by velocity, for me is counter intuitive, since it's a better method to control attack, instead. But a CC to control articulations can be useful (but I'm sure this is implemented, since Cinebrass has one of the most advanced mapping systems).


----------



## Cinesamples

Good suggestions. Now let's hear some Ed Bradshaw MUSIC babY!!!! 

Is anyone making music besides FireGS? 

We need more demos for the site....


----------



## noiseboyuk

OK, I don't yet have the library, so I might be asking a very stupid question, but here goes.

I don't quite get the issue with the short samples. Once I get to the point where I play a note and want it to sustain til I release it, I want a sustain sample, not a medium / short one. Maybe people want to use it and release early because the attack feels stronger than the sustain? If so I'd prefer that attack crossing to a sustain rather than having lots of different short options which can be released, which I can only imagine would get confusing to play. I'm a big fan of KISS!

Could just be me. I've never been able to make much use of marcato samples. Staccato yes of course; Staccatissimo, great, then sustain with perfect release on a trigger for me... in an ideal world with a choice of smooth and harder attacks.

(I appreciate this may not be possible with this lib, just throwing it out there!)

On an unrelated issue, Mikes.. this mystery excitement.... when roughly might we know what it is? Is it a day or a month away?!


----------



## Ed

noiseboyuk @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Could just be me. I've never been able to make much use of marcato samples. Staccato yes of course; Staccatissimo, great, then sustain with perfect release on a trigger for me... in an ideal world with a choice of smooth and harder attacks.
> 
> (I appreciate this may not be possible with this lib, just throwing it out there!)
> 
> On an unrelated issue, Mikes.. this mystery excitement.... when roughly might we know what it is? Is it a day or a month away?!



After working with it for a while the velocity mapping makes the most sence and is the most intuitive to me in the end. I had to get used to it as usually I like banging harder to get staccs but the reversed velo mapping felt weird. The different lengths of short notes work very well actually, listen to my star wars phrase played on all 3 sections, it wouldn't be possible with just using a sustain and a stacc or something. I did had to go correct a few lengths after I played it in but thats only because my keyboard isn't sensitive enough to play dynamics at once, but tweaks was super quick and easy to do. 

The only reason why I see the release as a problem is because even when used properly you can still get bluring of notes if two 1/4 notees or two 1/2 notes are too close together. Now in the latter example you can just pick a 1/4 note then a 1/2 note which would usually fix that, but what about when you want a shorter note from a 1/4 note but longer than a 1/8 note? You can't do it, hence the problem. People earlier were not using it in the way it was intended which is why it sounded like a big mess, but there is still a legitimate issue here. Its so close to almost perfect playing these kinds of passages and it doesn't even need more recordings to fix. 

I hear you on marcato samples btw, but here they are actually really usable, and all 3 lengths of shorts work very well together, which is not usually the case in my experience where other libraries staccs and marcs always seem to sound disjointed. Like you can hear where it goes.. stac stac stac maaaarrrc stac stac... 
[mp3]http://edbradshawmusic.com/CS_Brass_Art_Test_Starwars_phrase.mp3[/mp3]
The only reason two 1/4 notes will sound disjointed in my example is because of the reason above, but the transition from stacc to marc is perfectly smooth, which is also why I think little pseudo legato you could fade in and out for certain transitions would also work wonders if its possible.


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

There's more star wars.. http://soundcloud.com/devastat/cinebrass-test


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

thanks everyone for the messages - give yourself a few days to learn the lib. It actually took me about a week or two to appreciate the default articulation map but they are very musical.

I am very happy you guys appreciate the price - plenty of thought went it to it. Our musicians are happy - I spoke to a bunch of them on the phone today. They wish only for success to all.

And don't forget to check off the "yes" I want to win a chance to record with the live orchestra - our cool contest.


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



devastat @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> There's more star wars.. http://soundcloud.com/devastat/cinebrass-test



Really nice use of the solo horn. Very expressive! Thanks for making that. What are the strings by the way? Sounds nice..

MP


----------



## JFB

gregjazz @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> There's a LOT of scripting going on behind the library. In fact, I've pretty much disabled all the native handling elements in Kontakt (volume fades, round robin handling, etc.) to allow the scripting to handle all of that.



I hope you didn't disable Kontakt's native AHDSR envelope as a modulation source. I'd like to be able to change the envelope release segment of individual groups and "dry out" some of the ambiance and use my own M7 for reverb tail. I was very glad I could do this with my Spitfire perc library. Maybe not the best solution for "realism", but it's an easy DIY and sounds fine to my ears.

Still downloading...topping out at ~120KB/s. Jeez.


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



CineSamples @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> devastat @ Wed Jun 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's more star wars.. http://soundcloud.com/devastat/cinebrass-test
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really nice use of the solo horn. Very expressive! Thanks for making that. What are the strings by the way? Sounds nice..
> 
> MP
Click to expand...


Thanks! Its Lass LS (Legato Sordino) strings that I just got yesterday. Just learning to use it all Cinebrass as well..


----------



## noiseboyuk

Thanks Ed, sounds great except for those little overlaps as you say, but... surely achievable with the longer notes as a sustain then release, thus eliminating the problem? Would be interested in a comparison if you could bear it... I suspect the sustains are too soft for the attack, hence my feeling that an attack sustain would be more useful in terms of playability.


----------



## Gerd Kaeding

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



devastat @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> There's more star wars.. http://soundcloud.com/devastat/cinebrass-test



That's a _very_ nice demo for CB ( and for LASS LS ) !


----------



## Rob Elliott

FireGS @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> FireGS @ Wed Jun 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [mp3]http://aixsyd.com/music/sith2.mp3[/mp3]
> 
> Opening from Revenge of the Sith.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more Star Wars for ya'll.
Click to expand...


FireGS. Can you share with us with trpt patch you used on this one - I assume just the std 'art' one? The 'room' really shines here as well.


----------



## FireGS

Heya Rob, yep - Just the art patch. =)


----------



## Pochflyboy

Nice work Cinesamples team. Would it be possible to do an update that will add CC11 at least to the solo horn? I am still on Kontakt 3.5 full so I can't change it.


----------



## NYC Composer

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



Ashermusic @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> booboo @ Wed Jun 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ashermusic @ Wed Jun 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> o[])
> 
> It's 1.0, guys, it is not unexpected that there will be some glitches and a learning curve.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. Some of it's frustrating, but as long as a satisfactory update occurs, then it's totally understandable. (except for the solo horn not having any dynamics - even within the 'soft' range...that's tough).
> 
> But we gotta report back, both for the developers and to help potential customers make an informed decision. :wink:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know but the response to the release seemed to me to be somewhat hysterical and now the response to encounters actually using it seems to me somewhat hysterical.
> 
> it's just a sample library.
Click to expand...


Ditto re HS, in every way. The initial responses, pre-release, were equivalent to the expected attainment of the Holy Grail, and the way people articulated the problems they had post-release was just as impassioned. When people's expectations are high, they tend to get excited.

A high level of anticipation and a lot of buzz are good for sales, or so I hear-regardless of whether the product is a sample library or an automobile.


----------



## KMuzzey

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Mikes, a feature request for the 2.0 version, if I may? It'd be super-cool to have patches (a la LASS' A.R.T. with spicc/stacc strings) where you can just hold down the sustain pedal and trigger fast-repeating 1/8, 1/16th notes, triplets, etc. I love the velocity-mapped articulation patches, but the short articulations can be kinda tough in a single pass if you're working with a weighted piano keyboard that isn't so sensitive in the short-articulation velocity range. But a sustain-pedal-triggered fast-repeating horn section, where you can ride the modwheel for crescendos? That would be insane.

Nice job guys, these sound wonderful.

Kerry


----------



## Ed

noiseboyuk @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Thanks Ed, sounds great except for those little overlaps as you say, but... surely achievable with the longer notes as a sustain then release, thus eliminating the problem? Would be interested in a comparison if you could bear it... I suspect the sustains are too soft for the attack, hence my feeling that an attack sustain would be more useful in terms of playability.



Do you mean use a sustain where the 1/4 notes are? If so, you're right the sustain just won't work because of the attack, thats the reason why all these medium short notes are so important and why playing these passages in the past usually sound bad or weird depending on how poorly they attempted this. I bet CS recorded them in a musical way so that they sound great when played after each other when I think many libraries don't do this or haven't done this which is why marcatos before were hard to use.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Hi Ed - Daniel's video is beginning to convince me!


----------



## Rob Elliott

Pochflyboy @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Nice work Cinesamples team. Would it be possible to do an update that will add CC11 at least to the solo horn? I am still on Kontakt 3.5 full so I can't change it.



Thanks FireGS. Hate to be Debbie Downer but I wonder if they have multiple xfade layers on the solo horn? I think if they did - they would have included it with release. Just thinking out loud. A little disappointed with the solo horn - but so much is wonderful with what I am hearing in the first 30 mins. I think I am liking the mapping (even though I have been keyswitching since 2001. Of course more control on release samples will be a nice update.

Good job Mikes.


----------



## Pedro Camacho

Bought, tested.
Amazing stuff.


----------



## Ed

SOLO HORN SUGGESTION:

I reccomend having a filter or volume control programmed into the Modwheel, that's how Symphobia 2 does it and while its not perfect it does make it more playable. You could even have a button you can turn on and off if people would rather have nothing.


----------



## Ashermusic

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



NYC Composer @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Ashermusic @ Wed Jun 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> booboo @ Wed Jun 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ashermusic @ Wed Jun 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> o[])
> 
> It's 1.0, guys, it is not unexpected that there will be some glitches and a learning curve.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. Some of it's frustrating, but as long as a satisfactory update occurs, then it's totally understandable. (except for the solo horn not having any dynamics - even within the 'soft' range...that's tough).
> 
> But we gotta report back, both for the developers and to help potential customers make an informed decision. :wink:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know but the response to the release seemed to me to be somewhat hysterical and now the response to encounters actually using it seems to me somewhat hysterical.
> 
> it's just a sample library.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ditto re HS, in every way. The initial responses, pre-release, were equivalent to the expected attainment of the Holy Grail, and the way people articulated the problems they had post-release was just as impassioned. When people's expectations are high, they tend to get excited.
> 
> A high level of anticipation and a lot of buzz are good for sales, or so I hear-regardless of whether the product is a sample library or an automobile.
Click to expand...


I guess I just don't get that excited about any sample library (or a car for that matter.}

Now give me an orchestra date, then I get excited.... at least as I remember it


----------



## Stevie

CineBrass Pro announced


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

You probably already figured this out but - just in case. Template set up for me:

Load all 11 patches - arm midi tracks as 'doubles dictate'. I LOVE this with my LASS setup. Of course works the best for a 'divisi' library but essentially it gives you ultimate flexibility in creating 'multis' as needed and on the fly.


----------



## Ed

blakerobinson @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Done like this if anyone wants to give it a go themselves.



Wow awesome Blake! So quick. Thanks :D


----------



## Ed

Weird I just found a bunch of tracks on youtube that uses CineBrass uploaded on the 7th.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRkHuFoR ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYcpcoiU ... re=related


----------



## traklordz

i'm a producer that makes hip hop and r&B would cinebrass be a good fit or is it mostly for soundtrack and scoring?


----------



## AndreP

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Also acquired Cinebrass today was curious if the ADSR controls in Kontakt 4 have any effect on the samples. Since I'm using the free Kontakt 4 player at the moment, I'm wondering if I should upgrade to get any more possible flexibility.

The library sounds fantastic though and is very inspiring to write for. Can't wait for any other possibly updates inbetween Cinebrass Pro.


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

This is my attempt at trying to figure out CineBrass by testing out some good-ole John Williams.

*Jurassic Park Test:*

http://soundcloud.com/caseyedwards/cinebrass-demo-jurassic-park


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



blakerobinson @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> I think JW's things are the first things I try on brass libraries. Made me want to give it a go, but I don't have time to do the whole thing :( 10 minute rough trumpet tinker:
> 
> [mp3]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14503036/Music/Jurassic%20Park.mp3[/mp3]



Blake - this is the art patch (with legato in the middle of the phrase)?


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I did the same on my Jurassic Park example, I overlapped some of the articulation patch with the legato Tpt patch. It really helps bring it together.


----------



## gregjazz

Pochflyboy @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Nice work Cinesamples team. Would it be possible to do an update that will add CC11 at least to the solo horn? I am still on Kontakt 3.5 full so I can't change it.


CC11 already controls volume in all the patches, including the solo horn.


----------



## Justus

blakerobinson @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> Ed @ Thu Jun 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> SOLO HORN SUGGESTION:
> 
> I reccomend having a filter or volume control programmed into the Modwheel, that's how Symphobia 2 does it and while its not perfect it does make it more playable. You could even have a button you can turn on and off if people would rather have nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Done like this if anyone wants to give it a go themselves.
Click to expand...




Thank you, Blake!
I am using the LP filter on the vsl solo woodwinds which works very well.


----------



## Danny_Owen

I think that seems to be great coming from everyone using Cinebrass is how quickly things are being put together- I've never, and I mean never, heard so many quality little user demos 1 day after release.

I do think HB will probably trounce CB in many ways for people who have the time to fully orchestrate everything and tweak away, as it's a far more complete library, but I expect the time taken to get great results and the learning curve will be far greater than is with CB. (I'm all for being proven wrong of course).

As an 'I need a really good sounding brass section very quickly, but I don't want to use just a brass ensemble a la symphobia' I think Cinebrass has certainly found a niche.

My personal preference is actually more towards the completeness of HB, but on a tight deadline at the moment I'd probably choose CB over anything else.


----------



## Ryan Scully

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I got in a good hour with it after downloading last night and I was absolutely gleaming after playing through each of the patches. I spent a little time adjusting the velocity ranges on the ensemble patches(mainly raising to about 90 for the short notes) and found I was quickly able to get used to the layout of the velocity map. I became accustomed to using mod wheel for staccato patch velocity after using it for the velocity attentuator w/ LASS and A.R.T. I think it is really intuitive and helps pack so much more into the patch without the need for multiple midi channels to pull of one line IMO. Cant wait to get home from work and play some more - such an inspiring sound to this library.



Ryan


----------



## Per K

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

24 hours with Cinebrass. Just some stopped SAM Horns added in the final chorus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htUYGtxU1q8


----------



## Pochflyboy

gregjazz @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Pochflyboy @ Wed Jun 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice work Cinesamples team. Would it be possible to do an update that will add CC11 at least to the solo horn? I am still on Kontakt 3.5 full so I can't change it.
> 
> 
> 
> CC11 already controls volume in all the patches, including the solo horn.
Click to expand...


Well it most certainly does.... lol just does not do it in my stand alone but as a plug it works fine. Thought it was odd that this would not be in there. LOL Thanks


----------



## Simon Ravn

OK, just my initial impressions. I love the tone on the horns and trumpets! (Haven't gotten to bones yet).

Like many other pointed out, releases are too long, making it quite sluggish to play sustained notes on the legatos. I tried turning down release to 0 ms. but that didn't help much, so my impression is that the release samples are simply too long... So either they should be trimmed or offset to become shorter. I would rather have less realistic release notes than long ones which makes the whole line sounds soggy

There are some tuning issues in the horns upper registers, especially in the sustains they are immediately apparent.

Well, back to fooling around 

EDIT: Oh, the low brass pad is wonderful, as are the cimbasso/tuba combos

But I am sure all of these patches will be in my to go template soon, and I like that they won't take up 200 MIDI channels, but the ability to squeeze this into 10 or so. Lovely.


----------



## paoling

Simon Ravn @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> Like many other pointed out, releases are too long, making it quite sluggish to play sustained notes on the legatos. I tried turning down release to 0 ms. but that didn't help much, so my impression is that the release samples are simply too long... So either they should be trimmed or offset to become shorter. I would rather have less realistic release notes than long ones which makes the whole line sounds soggy
> Well, back to fooling around



What about adjusting the sample start position for release samples (and tweaking the attack with AHDSR), in order to reduce the release samples from the start? In this way the presence of the release samples would be a lot less pronounced. Another way could be to save the whole instrument as WAV and editing the release samples with a Timestretch algorithm (possibly a with a Batch Conversion routine).

But I've not understood: do the release samples trigger when doing a legato line? Because this is not a normal behaviour, but a sort of bug. This can be avoided for monophonic legato with a kind of:
if ($NOTE_HELD=1) 
IGNORE_EVENT($EVENT_ID)
end if
in the on release portion of the script. (for polyphonic legato this could be a lot more complex).


----------



## Simon Ravn

It sounds like the release samples are triggered in legato playing, yes.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Simon Ravn @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> It sounds like the release samples are triggered in legato playing, yes.



If so, a bug surely, and an easily fixable one I'd have thought. Greg / Mikes?


----------



## paoling

Oh, my simple script was completely wrong, but you can do a similar thing with %KEY_DOWN and while() function :-P


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

If it is the rel. samples being triggered in legato, please make a quick update M & M!


----------



## Justus

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Question:
I am controlling the dynamics via Volume Pedal (cc11).
As cc11 does also control the volume, the low dynamics are too quiet.
Is there a way to reduce or remove cc11 as volume control?
(I know I could set my volume pedal to another cc but my whole template is set up this way.)

Thanks!


----------



## Hannes_F

paoling @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> But I've not understood: do the release samples trigger when doing a legato line? Because this is not a normal behaviour, but a sort of bug.



I don't think so. The last note ends at some point and after that there should still come a room response, even in a legato transition.


----------



## Mike Connelly

How is they dynamic crossfading on the solo trumpet, is it as seamless as the trumpet and horn section patches? It would be great to hear a quick example, particularly one that covers the full dynamic range of the patch.


----------



## germancomponist

Hannes_F @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> paoling @ Thu Jun 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I've not understood: do the release samples trigger when doing a legato line? Because this is not a normal behaviour, but a sort of bug.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think so. The last note ends at some point and after that there should still come a room response, even in a legato transition.
Click to expand...


True.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Hannes_F @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> paoling @ Thu Jun 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I've not understood: do the release samples trigger when doing a legato line? Because this is not a normal behaviour, but a sort of bug.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think so. The last note ends at some point and after that there should still come a room response, even in a legato transition.
Click to expand...


I'm not sure how the transitions were recorded, but I assume the player(s) would play note A, transition to note B, and then everything except the transition would be edited out. If this is the case, then surely all the room tone is right there within the transition sample, and no additional release sample should be used?


----------



## David Story

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



Per K @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> 24 hours with Cinebrass. Just some stopped SAM Horns added in the final chorus
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htUYGtxU1q8



Awesome, Per! This is the epic, slow brass choir sound that I was hoping to hear. Very emotional, with a lot of changes in texture. It's clearly samples, but the best quality, and done in a day or 2. Thanks!
PS What violins are you using? They blend great with the horns.


----------



## Simon Ravn

No matter what, I think the legato playing sounds a little muddy and I don't belive it is just the room tone that remains. Still waiting for a comment on that from the horse's mouth though


----------



## Mike Connelly

On the legato issue, how do the closer mics compare? Doing the same passage with close versus room might make it more obvious if it's room or if it's a programming issue.


----------



## paoling

Well, this was exactly the problem that SIPS had with wet libraries like EWQLSO. If I don't get wrong BB implemented a way to fix this problem in the later versions. You are true about the room response, but unless using convolution reverb to emulate the short room response, the room response of a note suddenly silenced its a bit different, imho, than the room response of a melodic legato transition.. The point is: when will the release should start? In a staccato note it is clear, but in a legato transition, imho, it should have a very very slow attack, that leaves just a trace on the previous sound in the virtual room..


----------



## paoling

The complete cutting of all the release samples until the last note, was a kind of shortcut (nice word, lately) to resolve this issue


----------



## noiseboyuk

Sorry to quote myself, but folks - if I understand correctly, the legato transitions on each mic position will have all the correct room tone already built-in. No need for any other bodges or scripting really as far as I can see... logically they recorded a note, transition, 2nd note, right? So the transition starts in the right place with the right ambience - in fact logically you'd need a bit of a release at the END of the legato transition maybe... I guess typically it's a cross fade from the transition to the next sustain.

All this kind of stuff is why Vienna built the silent stage of course, but let's not go there!

Unless they recorded it some totally different way, I can't see how else it could be... Greg?! Mikes?!!!


----------



## Hannes_F

noiseboyuk @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> I'm not sure how the transitions were recorded, but I assume the player(s) would play note A, transition to note B, and then everything except the transition would be edited out. If this is the case, then surely all the room tone is right there within the transition sample, and no additional release sample should be used?



Yep, you have a point here.


----------



## Ed

After further testing I think the solo trumpet legato sounds the most sluggish compared with the same dynamic on solo horn. Not always of course, not in all circumstances. I should be clear.

I do wonder why this is, I think it must be some really subtle thing when you record this stuff, if you do it slightly differently you get a very different result. Its a touch one to crack I think.


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I tested a bit on the solo trumpet and no, the release samples aren't played except from on the last sounding note, so there isn't anything wrong there. The sluggishness comes from the attacks being pretty long. Might be the same with the solo horn.


----------



## JFB

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

FWIW - I just went ahead and deleted all the release samples from the sustain articulations and set the release delay in the script editor to the lowest (10ms). I did the same thing with my old EWQLSO library. I use external reverb for reverb tail, as I've never liked the sound of release trails in "wet" libraries.

Wish there was a button to just disable them, but this worked for me. Of course, YMMV.


----------



## FireGS

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



JFB @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> FWIW - I just went ahead and deleted all the release samples from the sustain articulations and set the release delay in the script editor to the lowest (10ms). I did the same thing with my old EWQLSO library. I use external reverb for reverb tail, as I've never liked the sound of release trails in "wet" libraries.
> 
> Wish there was a button to just disable them, but this worked for me. Of course, YMMV.



Can you post what this sounds like?

Mike and Mike and Greg - perhaps a volume slider, like the legato transitions, but for Releases?


----------



## Ed

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



Simon Ravn @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> I tested a bit on the solo trumpet and no, the release samples aren't played except from on the last sounding note, so there isn't anything wrong there. The sluggishness comes from the attacks being pretty long. Might be the same with the solo horn.



Then why when I play fast does it turn mushy? Actually i just tried it out again... I get mush at faster transitions on the *ensemble* horns legato, but *no mush *on the *solo *horn! Weird!


----------



## Cinesamples

Yes, because there is a room ambience on the SONY stage, the transition itself needs a bit of decay. For example, you want to hear the sound of a horn leap reverberate through the room and not get cut off.
Other libraries recorded in small rooms or anechoic chambers can get away without having a room decay for the leap. It just quickly crossfades into the next sample.

We think this is what gives CineBrass it's unique sound, maintaining the SONY stage sound in the transitions.


----------



## germancomponist

I would like to listen to this: 

A comparison between a short piece, played by real players in this Sony room, and then a reproduced version with the samples what was recorded with this same players. I think this would be very interesting (when it comes to release samples....)


----------



## michel

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Thanks for this wonderful library, CineSamples. The sound is awesome and the manual is a great read, Mr. Barry. :wink: 

Beside the discussion about the release samples and the too long 1/4 notes, here is some music with CineBrass.

http://soundcloud.com/mijor/sets/cinebrass


----------



## gregjazz

Yes, we added a little of the release samples during the legato transitions, because without it the natural room reverb didn't seem to flow as well. We tried it without release samples and with, and adding in a little bit of release improved the realism.

Another reason for incorporating the release samples into the legato transitions is that if you interrupt a legato interval with another legato interval, the natural room reverb won't sound cut off.

Like I said before, if you want the legato intervals to be more responsive, turning down their volume using the legato interval volume slider actually also speeds up the interval as well as reducing its volume.


----------



## FireGS

I'm at work and cant test it, so reducing the legato interval will essentially turn down the release?

What about on Articulation patches?


----------



## gregjazz

FireGS @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> I'm at work and cant test it, so reducing the legato interval will essentially turn down the release?


No, it decreases the volume of the legato interval samples, while also making them shorter as well.


----------



## Ed

gregjazz @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> FireGS @ Thu Jun 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm at work and cant test it, so reducing the legato interval will essentially turn down the release?
> 
> 
> 
> No, it decreases the volume of the legato interval samples, while also making them shorter as well.
Click to expand...


Tbh I tried that and didn't notice it getting shorter, I guess its because its making it all quieter at same time. Another fader maybe? :D


----------



## Ed

I did a few tests... maybe people want to hear what the different room sounds like?

http://edbradshawmusic.com/CSBrassTest/

You can hear the...

- Full Mix.
- Close 
- Room
- Surround
- Briscati Reverb mic only

I also have a few on there that show the Solo horn and Solo Trumpet legato, for Trumpet I also made a version playing the melody higher. These have both the Full Mic and Briscati reverb on.

I didn't really spend much time on this so forgive its shitty unfinished unpolishedness of it, but it is out of the box. 

PS: I noticed its SUPER FAST changing mic positions, just click and you're done and ready to mix down. Wow.


----------



## gregjazz

That solo horn sounds gorgeous, Ed!


----------



## Ed

Thanks Greg, Blake's tutorial to add the low pass filter attachted to CC1 really works well to add expression with only one dynamic layer. :D 

Listening to this now I think it would sound a lot better if i just didn't have legato on every transition!

I also noticed when doing this that the legato worked really well on wide transitions! Normally I avoid them.


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

very nice ed


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Here is something I worked on today with Cinebrass: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9178387/Cine_Brass.mp3

Given all the mic positions it is very easy to get these brass to sit on a mix, yet you retain all the detail of the sound..


----------



## Justus

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

How about the option to control the transition speed/attacks via velocity?
soft notes = full transition
hard notes = faster transitions


----------



## pulse

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Hey just wanted to jump in and say great work on Cinebrass! Just used it on a tv show inspiring stuff  congrats.

One question though (and this only seems to happen with Cinebrass), for some reason when loading Kontakt in VE Pro (going into logic) Cinebrass patches don't seem to play back, but when loaded directly in Logic (no VE Pro) it works fine. Just to note when in VE Pro the instance of Kontakt receives midi information but no sound comes out. If I load up another library it works fine?

Maybe I'm having a blond moment, any thoughts would be appreciated 

Thanks,

Anthony


----------



## Ed

Pulse, in case it helps. I use it in VE PRO and it works fine


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

We already figured out a way to make "harder" legato - update to come.


----------



## pulse

Thanks Ed, good to know that it works  maybe I need to compliment my computer more often... it could be in a bad mood?

I guess I'll just see how things go, it's just odd that it only happens with Cinebrass? either way if I found out whats happening I'll be sure to report back. 

Thanks again,
Anthony


----------



## FireGS

Epiccc


----------



## Ah_dziz

pulse @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> Thanks Ed, good to know that it works  maybe I need to compliment my computer more often... it could be in a bad mood?
> 
> I guess I'll just see how things go, it's just odd that it only happens with Cinebrass? either way if I found out whats happening I'll be sure to report back.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Anthony



This happens a bit for me with some kontakt libraries in K4 running in jbridge. The problem is usually solved for me by resetting the engine in kontakt.


----------



## pulse

Thanks Ah_dziz, I'll be sure to give that a go


----------



## Pochflyboy

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



mikebarry @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> We already figured out a way to make "harder" legato - update to come.



sweet. this will be pretty nice to have.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

I'm having the easiest time ever incorporating this amazing library with my always-evolving template. Wonderful stuff.

THANK YOU CINESAMPLES!


----------



## sevaels

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Ned is that you in the Bruins goalie uniform screaming 'Thank you Cinesamples!'?

:D

Seriously I +1 this though. What a killer library.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



mikebarry @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> We already figured out a way to make "harder" legato - update to come.



Ah, fantastic news folks! Knew you'd be on it.

A quick request for anyone already with CB - the velocity morphing sounds excellent, that's clear already, but I'd love to hear a very simple and quick example of some fast crescendos - 1 / 1.5s kind of things if someone has a few minutes - cheers!


----------



## MaestroRage

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

So I did some tests today to try and get some quick runs. The thing with this library right now is I can't seem to play them in live due to the release sample issue people are talking about, but if you paint them in, you can get some pretty sick results. I quite like what I was able to do using only the tutti multi patch (mod wheel to max, straight out of the box, no mixing)

http://www.symphonyofspecters.com/downloads/RapidRunTest.mp3 (www.symphonyofspecters.com/downloads/RapidRunTest.mp3)


----------



## Simon Ravn

Sounds great, with the "harder" legato update! 

One request (that you can ignore if I am the only one). I know that sustain is triggered by using the sustain pedal, but that really doesn't feel so natural to me. I would rather have the sustains triggered at the highest (say, 120-127) velocities, just like the other note lengths are triggered by different velocities. I know it would make the zones for each sample length a bit smaller but I still think I would rather want that. Am I alone on this?


----------



## noiseboyuk

Simon Ravn @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> One request (that you can ignore if I am the only one). I know that sustain is triggered by using the sustain pedal, but that really doesn't feel so natural to me. I would rather have the sustains triggered at the highest (say, 120-127) velocities, just like the other note lengths are triggered by different velocities. I know it would make the zones for each sample length a bit smaller but I still think I would rather want that. Am I alone on this?



I thought this could already be set using their custom map? I hope so - I too find the sustain pedal a pain, mainly cos with Sonar it seems to be in one position when not playing, and another when it reads the automation data. I spend half my day swearing at stabbing it furiously to get it in the right position. (maybe other DAWs handle this better?!) Anyway, I'd figured my ideal setup would be keyswitch for sus, then all the other shorts on their velocity map, and the Mikes said I'd be able to do that on a custom map.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



MaestroRage @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> So I did some tests today to try and get some quick runs. The thing with this library right now is I can't seem to play them in live due to the release sample issue people are talking about, but if you paint them in, you can get some pretty sick results. I quite like what I was able to do using only the tutti multi patch (mod wheel to max, straight out of the box, no mixing)
> 
> http://www.symphonyofspecters.com/downloads/RapidRunTest.mp3 (www.symphonyofspecters.com/downloads/RapidRunTest.mp3)



The stuff at around 33s, right? It's ok, but not great imho. Will be interesting to compare with the upcoming hard legato update....


----------



## mducharme

I love the sound of the ensemble legato horns overall, but there there are a few notes bugging me in that patch (top layer):

E and F above middle C - about one second in there is a drop off in volume then suddenly a new attack, as though one of the horns played, dropped off and then played again (while the others sustained).

D and Eb above middle C - some weird "metallic" effect coming in about a second into the note, sounds like a recording artifact of some kind.

The above two issues sound pretty bad to my ears - it's a shame they are in such a prominent register. The top layer of the horn ensemble sounds thrilling otherwise.

Also, there are tuning issues on the D above high C (these are more minor and easier to dismiss since they are in a more difficult register for the horn).


----------



## Simon Ravn

noiseboyuk, oh, if it can be set up with custom map all is well. Going to check it out.


----------



## mducharme

Quick example of the problems I meant with those notes (E-F-E-F with the drop off and re-attack then D-Eb-D-Eb with the strange metallic artifact coming in at one second in):

http://www.box.net/shared/xtg4av7e631vdqva7a6g


----------



## Simon Ravn

mducharme, I noticed some sustained horn notes with that metallic sound too - I don't think it's an artifact, it's just a bad note, probably one of the players creating a bad sound with the instrument. I think the adjacent note should just be stretched to get rid of that note intirely. Not sure you are talking about the same issue though, since I can't listen to your examples right now.


----------



## mducharme

Yes, I believe we're talking about the same thing.. the adjacent notes below those are fine, but the two above have the other problem of a drop off and re-attack, so there is a full minor 3rd span of problematic samples at that spot.


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

the drop offs are easily fixed - they are fade points

the other sound is just the overblow tone. We had 6 horns playing as loud as they play - it gets a bit ugly.


----------



## Hannes_F

mducharme @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> Quick example of the problems I meant with those notes (E-F-E-F with the drop off and re-attack then D-Eb-D-Eb with the strange metallic artifact coming in at on second in):
> 
> http://www.box.net/shared/xtg4av7e631vdqva7a6g



There might come opportunities where you love this rub in a mix, no? Things need to get raw now and then


----------



## Justus

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



Justus @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> Question:
> I am controlling the dynamics via Volume Pedal (cc11).
> As cc11 does also control the volume, the low dynamics are too quiet.
> Is there a way to reduce or remove cc11 as volume control?
> (I know I could set my volume pedal to another cc but my whole template is set up this way.)
> 
> Thanks!



Anyone?


----------



## dcoscina

Love the sound of this library. It's really gutsy! Just wondering if anyone has found the legato section horns release a little long so when you're transitioning between two notes, especially at the loudest dynamic, that it's kind of overlapping which doesn't sound too realistic. I was thinking I could adjust the release in the ADSR but darned if I can find it (embarrassed) in the tool drop down editor in Kontakt 4....


----------



## noiseboyuk

dcoscina @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> Love the sound of this library. It's really gutsy! Just wondering if anyone has found the legato section horns release a little long so when you're transitioning between two notes, especially at the loudest dynamic, that it's kind of overlapping which doesn't sound too realistic. I was thinking I could adjust the release in the ADSR but darned if I can find it (embarrassed) in the tool drop down editor in Kontakt 4....



Either that's a very dry gag, or you need to read almost any post in the last 5 pages!


----------



## DeOlivier

mducharme @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> I love the sound of the ensemble legato horns overall, but there there are a few notes bugging me in that patch (top layer):
> 
> E and F above middle C - about one second in there is a drop off in volume then suddenly a new attack, as though one of the horns played, dropped off and then played again (while the others sustained).
> 
> D and Eb above middle C - some weird "metallic" effect coming in about a second into the note, sounds like a recording artifact of some kind.
> 
> The above two issues sound pretty bad to my ears - it's a shame they are in such a prominent register. The top layer of the horn ensemble sounds thrilling otherwise.
> 
> Also, there are tuning issues on the D above high C (these are more minor and easier to dismiss since they are in a more difficult register for the horn).



+1. Actually I wanted to post about the exact same issues when I read this. It's a little annoying because this is in a very important register.

Also there seems to be a bug in the "Horns Ensemble Articulations" patch: in the "keyswitch map" mode, I always get sustained notes at very low velocities, regardless of the articulation I selected via keyswitch.


----------



## dcoscina

noiseboyuk @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> dcoscina @ Fri Jun 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Love the sound of this library. It's really gutsy! Just wondering if anyone has found the legato section horns release a little long so when you're transitioning between two notes, especially at the loudest dynamic, that it's kind of overlapping which doesn't sound too realistic. I was thinking I could adjust the release in the ADSR but darned if I can find it (embarrassed) in the tool drop down editor in Kontakt 4....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either that's a very dry gag, or you need to read almost any post in the last 5 pages!
Click to expand...


Sadly it wasn't a gag. I skipped the last 5 pages so I guess I will go back and read them. Sorry!


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Oliver, I think the idea is that you use the modwheel for dynamics, not velocity. So for eg, when I choose the shortest articulation, I can still have the (variable dynamic) sustain handy if I need it, by just pressing lightly.


----------



## dcoscina

gregjazz @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> That solo horn sounds gorgeous, Ed!



i agree and using Horner's Braveheart was a good choice! o-[][]-o


----------



## Guy Bacos

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Dave, did you come out of your "virtual music" retirement?


----------



## Cinesamples

DeOlivier @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> Also there seems to be a bug in the "Horns Ensemble Articulations" patch: in the "keyswitch map" mode, I always get sustained notes at very low velocities, regardless of the articulation I selected via keyswitch.



We thought having the sustain in the keyswitch map in this way would be a good alternative to having it trigger with sustain pedal for some people.

You can turn off the sustains if you want by going into custom map and setting the sustain/short split to 0.

MP


----------



## Mike Connelly

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



MaestroRage @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> So I did some tests today to try and get some quick runs. The thing with this library right now is I can't seem to play them in live due to the release sample issue people are talking about, but if you paint them in, you can get some pretty sick results. I quite like what I was able to do using only the tutti multi patch (mod wheel to max, straight out of the box, no mixing)
> 
> http://www.symphonyofspecters.com/downloads/RapidRunTest.mp3 (www.symphonyofspecters.com/downloads/RapidRunTest.mp3)



Great sounding track but there's not much in there I'd consider runs. The issue seems to be fast legato and it sounds like there will be an update for that soon.

Here's one example of fast slurs (and slurs intermixed with short notes) I'd like a brass library to be able to handle. Track 7, the preview is longer if you listen in iTunes but most of it is there in the web version. Track 8 also has an example of trumpet phrasing that mixes slurs and short notes, starts about 40 seconds in (need to listen on iTunes for that one).

http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/petrou ... =213133237


----------



## Polarity

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

@cinesamples guys:

will Cinebrass be on sale also through Big Fish Audio website as your previous products?


----------



## Mike Connelly

Hannes_F @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> There might come opportunities where you love this rub in a mix, no? Things need to get raw now and then



This particular example sounds more like a recording artifact like distortion than horn blast. I'm not crazy about it and I can't say I've heard a sound like that on an orchestral recording, not to mention that it stands out enough that I could see it being pretty obvious in a round robin situation.


----------



## Ed

I think i said earlier that staccs are already very short, but if they are timestretching some of these I think it would indeed be usefull to have a choice between some that are even shorter occasionally.


----------



## Ed

dcoscina @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> gregjazz @ Thu Jun 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That solo horn sounds gorgeous, Ed!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i agree and using Horner's Braveheart was a good choice! o-[][]-o
Click to expand...


hehe yea, I thought it sounded familar and figured it was a Horner thing I was ripping off, and then at the end I realised the entire thing was Braveheart!! :D


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*

Here is a great demo by the excellent Jason Graves. 

[mp3]http://www.cinesamples.com/samples/CineBrass_Graves_Ederas.mp3[/mp3]


----------



## reddognoyz

I pulled the trigger. 

I heard the demo's, I mentally referred to my experience working with their other libraries, I see them HERE, responding and updating as they go. I convinced myself that the piddly preschool dvd trailer was a good enough excuse to buy it. It totally isn't I just wanted to get this because I have a feeling it's gonna become a first call, time saving, money making, good sounding, instrument.


----------



## dcoscina

Nice demo by Graves. The tone of CB is really so bloody close to the real thing it's scary. Even with the couple minor things that have come up, the tone itself is just right on. I'm glad to have pulled the trigger myself on this one. 

Thanks again Mike and Mike. Great job!

p.s. Guy, I didn't know I retired! I took a break from the DAWs for a while though.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



mikebarry @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> Here is a great demo by the excellent Jason Graves.
> 
> [mp3]http://www.cinesamples.com/samples/CineBrass_Graves_Ederas.mp3[/mp3]



Excellent. I can hear that magic in the room!


----------



## germancomponist

So, let us forget all the great reverb plugs and reverb-hardware and let us use libraries what have a built in room information?


----------



## Ed

germancomponist @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> So, let us forget all the great reverb plugs and reverb-hardware and let us use libraries what have a built in room information?



huh?


----------



## germancomponist

Ed @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> germancomponist @ Fri Jun 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, let us forget all the great reverb plugs and reverb-hardware and let us use libraries what have a built in room information?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> huh?
Click to expand...


Smile,

I was, as so very often, joking. o-[][]-o 

BTW: I thought I could listen to a demo, done by Alex Pfeffer..... .


----------



## noiseboyuk

germancomponist @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> So, let us forget all the great reverb plugs and reverb-hardware and let us use libraries what have a built in room information?



As has been repeatedly said, brass in particular benefits from more ambient mics in a good space. Of course this can be attempted artificially, but for some people there is no substitute for the real thing - a large part of the success of Symphonic Orchestra, Symphobia etc is due to the way they were recorded and the place they were recorded. This library sounds like a new high benchmark for that approach imho - what I hear with my ears (for example in the Jason Graves demo) really sounds like those big Hollywood scores we know and love, and kudos to everyone involved in CineBrass for that.

If you want to broaden the discussion, perhaps other threads might be more appropriate away from the Commerical Announcements section?

EDIT - cross posted, no worries if it was lighter hearted than I read it!


----------



## Vision

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Hey all.. brass ensemble piece I was working on last night. 

http://soundcloud.com/peterbrinkley/the-nibiru-legacy


----------



## bwherry

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Hi guys,

I just wanted to post my thoughts on CineBrass thus far... First off, I _love_ the sounds. Really gorgeous. Finally trumpets that can blast away without sounding artificial! I also like the ability to save out separate "single articulation" patches using the custom map stuff. In addition to the issues mentioned by others (slow releases, sluggish legato transitions) I've got a couple other issues and/or questions for the Mikes/others... I've saved out different "single articulation" patches for the section articulations to use within instrument banks, as I'm so used to (and like) working that way. In case others are planning on doing this or are interested in how to do it, here are the separate articulation patches I've saved out:

- sustain: 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 shorts all disabled, sustain on velocity 0-127 ("always"), sustain dynamics on CC1

- staccato: all disabled except for 1/8, 1/8 on vel 0-127 ("always"), short dynamics on velocity

- short marc: all disabled except for 1/4, 1/4 on vel 0-127 ("always"), short dynamics on velocity

- long marc: all disabled except for 1/2, 1/2 on vel 0-127 ("always"), short dynamics on velocity

So mod wheel control of the dynamics for the sustain, velocity-controlled dynamics for all others. More "conventional." One of the things I had planned to do is "combo" patches, such as "staccato + sustain" and "short marcato + sustain" in one patch - with the short note's dynamics being controlled by velocity and the dynamics of the sustain being controlled by CC1. So you basically have a velocity-controllable "attack" on the front of your sustained notes. Really handy for loud-attack-then-down-to-nothing-then-big-crescendo with a single (hard) note press and one mod wheel move. With other libs I've created these patches by copying groups from sustain and short articulations into one instrument. Works great. Unfortunately I couldn't get this to work with the initial version of CineBrass. It _should_ work, according to Mike P. on page 16 of this thread (his response has since gotten all garbled - darn it). What I did to try this (say staccato + sustain) was to disable the 1/4 and 1/2 note shorts and set both sustain and 1/8 to velocities 0-127 (so both of them "always on"), with the sustain dynamics controlled by CC1 and short dynamics controlled by velocity. This _should_ produce the desired effect of a velocity-controlled staccato attack added to the front of a sustained note, but no go. I only get the sustain. It seems like the scripting is setup such that only one articulation can sound for a particular note event, and "sustain wins." But I'd love to be proven wrong, or shown how to achieve this!

A couple other things:

- Is it me, or is there only one dynamic level available for the 1/4 and 1/2 note shorts? The mod wheel (or velocity, however you've got the dynamics setup) controls the volume/loudness, but to my ears the actual dynamic level (how hard the players were blowing) doesn't seem to change. Sorry if this has already been brought up - I did my best to stay on top of this thread but new posts were just flying by...

- The dynamics controls seem to be "skewed loud." That is, with the dynamic control all the way down (CC1=0 or velocity of 0, however you've got the dynamics control setup) the resultant sample volume is on the loud side. Like mp, not ppp. Most other sample libs with CC1 dynamics controls, like LASS, HS, and EWQLSO are super duper quiet (or even silent) at CC1=0. I know I can always use CC11 and/or CC7 to control the volume of the CineBrass patches, but it just adds extra work to have to do that if I had copied a part to or from another instrument. Uhhh... not that I would _ever_ do that! :wink: 

Anyway, love the product, love the low price, love the SCL 10% discount, and I'm very much looking forward to any updates on the horizon! 

Brian


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



Vision @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> Hey all.. brass ensemble piece I was working on last night.
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/peterbrinkley/the-nibiru-legacy



Very nice!


----------



## dcoscina

Haven't spent too much time with CineBrass yet but I'm digging it thus far. A little third stream thing I did to see how the brass would sound in a kind of jazz/funk '70s vibe...

http://soundcloud.com/dcoscina/cinebrass-70s-vibe

Used CB trumpet section art, horn sec legato, and bones sec, art. Probably have to tame those 'bones velocity a bit. Did a bit but still sound a wee bit harsh. Originally the line was written for horns but I wanted to add a legato horn counterline to the trumpets. Gotta say, the tone is pretty damn realistic. Doesn't sound cheesy, especially in the trumpets and that morph script works well. 

very pleased with the sonic capability of this lib and its footprint is ridiculously small. Love it!


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



Vision @ Sat Jun 11 said:


> Hey all.. brass ensemble piece I was working on last night.
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/peterbrinkley/the-nibiru-legacy



That sounds really nice. I like the writing - very old-school...almost like 'Ben Hur' or 'Spartacus'. Not that your cue sounds like those scores, but it has that type of feel, from that era.

Which mics did you use?

Also, I think the Fr. Horns need to be considerably louder, but that's really easy to fix.

Good job!


----------



## dcoscina

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Nice job Peter! Does channel Alex North which is pretty dang cool. Not a lot of guys can even write in that style. Kudos


----------



## Mr. Anxiety

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Hey Peter (Vision),

That piece rocks! That's one of the most interesting musical pieces I've heard 'round here in ages.

Keep it up.

Mr A


----------



## DeOlivier

CineSamples @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> We thought having the sustain in the keyswitch map in this way would be a good alternative to having it trigger with sustain pedal for some people.
> 
> You can turn off the sustains if you want by going into custom map and setting the sustain/short split to 0.
> 
> MP



Ok, than it's actually a feature, not a bug  This might come in handy, because I normally don't use a sustain pedal. Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## DeOlivier

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

@Brian: Would it be possible to share these patches or describe how you did it? I would prefer to work the same "old-fashioned" way but I couldn't figure out how to do it so far.


----------



## noiseboyuk

dcoscina @ Sat Jun 11 said:


> Haven't spent too much time with CineBrass yet but I'm digging it thus far. A little third stream thing I did to see how the brass would sound in a kind of jazz/funk '70s vibe...
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/dcoscina/cinebrass-70s-vibe



Can't make that one work, any chance of relinking?

Peter's piece mostly sounds very good (and great writing), but I must admit it's bolstered my feeling that we could really do with C.I.T.E fast repetitions in CineBrass Pro which trigger genuine fast repetition samples. It it sounding too "triggered" at the moment - in Peter's example the repetitions @21s aren't super-fast, but it still doesn't sound natural to me. Right, I'm off to the Pro thread to state my case!


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!!*



mikebarry @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> Here is a great demo by the excellent Jason Graves.
> 
> [mp3]http://www.cinesamples.com/samples/CineBrass_Graves_Ederas.mp3[/mp3]



Good Lord!


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



Vision @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> Hey all.. brass ensemble piece I was working on last night.
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/peterbrinkley/the-nibiru-legacy



Love your writing, and the brass sounds very good. Look like I'll have to be getting this library.

Mahlon


----------



## rJames

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



Vision @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> Hey all.. brass ensemble piece I was working on last night.
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/peterbrinkley/the-nibiru-legacy



Like this one a lot. Great use of the library.


----------



## bwherry

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



DeOlivier @ Sat Jun 11 said:


> @Brian: Would it be possible to share these patches or describe how you did it? I would prefer to work the same "old-fashioned" way but I couldn't figure out how to do it so far.



Sure Oliver. It's pretty simple. 

Load one of the "articulations" patches and click the "Custom Map..." button in the bottom left. You should now see this:

http://images.cinesamples.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Articulations.png
(looks the same for all the "articulations" patches, even though this image is for the trumpets)

Within that custom map page you can control which articulation sounds and how you want its dynamics to be controlled. The way to do this is to turn off all the articulations you _don't_ want to sound. Say you want to make a patch "sustain only." To do this you would set the pull-down menu in the "Parameter" row to "Disabled" for each of the shorts. Then set the parameter for sustain to "Velocity" and set its value to 0-127. With this setup the sustain articulation will sound always (every note will have a velocity in the range 0-127) but all others will not. The only thing left to do is set the dynamics control. For sustains you'd typically want the dynamics to be controlled by the mod wheel, so for this sustain-only patch set the "Sustain Dynamics" to "CC#1" (the default) and you're done. Save the instrument somewhere else and you've got your "sustain only" patch whenever you want it. (note: since only sustain will sound the "Short/Sustain Orientation" and "Short/Sustain Split" have no effect)

Repeat this process for each of the short articulations. Turn off each articulation you don't want to sound by setting its "Parameter" to "Disabled", set the "Parameter" of the articulation you do want to sound to "Velocity" with "Value" of 0-127 ("always on"). Then set "Short Dynamics" to "Velocity" and save (somewhere else).

Hope this helps!

Brian


----------



## Mr. Anxiety

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

+1 for Brian's single articulation patches.

Also, getting a response about why Brian's stac/marc on top of the sustain patch doesn't sound both samples at the same time.

Mr A


----------



## Mr. Anxiety

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

You beat me to it...... Thanks Brian. Will get into tweak mode.

Mr A


----------



## Vision

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Thanks for the great feedback guys.  

Should mention that I'm using the default Full Mix setting, no other reverb. Also using a subtle Hollywoodwinds patch layering some of the lead lines. 

Had fun with this one. 

Btw.. David, I never heard of Alex North. I'll have to check em out sometime.


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Oops - bad link sorry.


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

A very cool superman demo coming down the pipe.


----------



## Andrew Christie

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



mikebarry @ Sun Jun 12 said:


> A very cool superman demo coming down the pipe.



I just wet my pants


----------



## DeOlivier

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Thanks a lot Brian! I didn't think of that easy option and started fiddling around in edit mode instead...


----------



## bwherry

*Really quick CineBrass test*

I just did a quick CineBrass test using the four ensemble articulations patches (trumpets, horns, bones, tuba+bass bone). Actually, I used my "separate articulations" patches w/ program changes - all the shorts you hear have their dynamics controlled by velocity and the sustains have their dynamics controlled by CC1. Room mics only, no additional reverb. I wanted to try some triple tonguing stuff in combination with the other shorts, plus a hard attack sustained crescendo. Works pretty well!

http://soundcloud.com/bwherry/cinebrass-tryout

There are a couple spots where I thought the 1/4 short was a little too long (one note audibly overlaps the next) so I went with a 1/8 short instead, which was a little too short for my liking, but didn't overlap the next note. I think it's been mentioned before, but it would be great if the 1/4 and 1/2 note shorts would "very quickly fade out" on the note release, instead of always being "full length" (release has no effect). In updating my template to use judicious helpings of CineBrass this morning :D I was able to easily compare a CineBrass 1/2 short against an OBC long marcato (horns I think). The OBC marcato patch responds nicely to the note release, so if you play shorter note durations without overlapping notes, you get shorter durations without overlapping notes. :wink: So one OBC marcato patch can effectively sound like 1/4, 1/2, dotted 1/2, etc. I imagine this is an easy change to make (and is likely already in work by the CineSamples guys).

Brian


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: Really quick CineBrass test*



bwherry @ Sun Jun 12 said:


> I just did a quick CineBrass test using the four ensemble articulations patches (trumpets, horns, bones, tuba+bass bone). Actually, I used my "separate articulations" patches w/ program changes - all the shorts you hear have their dynamics controlled by velocity and the sustains have their dynamics controlled by CC1. Room mics only, no additional reverb. I wanted to try some triple tonguing stuff in combination with the other shorts, plus a hard attack sustained crescendo. Works pretty well!
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/bwherry/cinebrass-tryout
> 
> There are a couple spots where I thought the 1/4 short was a little too long (one note audibly overlaps the next) so I went with a 1/8 short instead, which was a little too short for my liking, but didn't overlap the next note. I think it's been mentioned before, but it would be great if the 1/4 and 1/2 note shorts would "very quickly fade out" on the note release, instead of always being "full length" (release has no effect). In updating my template to use judicious helpings of CineBrass this morning :D I was able to easily compare a CineBrass 1/2 short against an OBC long marcato (horns I think). The OBC marcato patch responds nicely to the note release, so if you play shorter note durations without overlapping notes, you get shorter durations without overlapping notes. :wink: So one OBC marcato patch can effectively sound like 1/4, 1/2, dotted 1/2, etc. I imagine this is an easy change to make (and is likely already in work by the CineSamples guys).
> 
> Brian




Brian - maybe it is all those VSL years or how I currently use LASS - with banks - but I just might do this as well. Two questions:

1. Did you use LASS' 'BANKS' template and just fill in the various CB 'changed' single arts?

2. Did you ever figure at the short vel driven 1/8 note with MW controlled sustain. That would be very useful to have.


Thanks for posting.


----------



## FireGS

Probably the best version of Hedwig's Theme I've heard done with samples thus far. Found it on gearslutz.

http://www.box.net/shared/gpyncj2aeyhalog6sym1

Holy moly, Batman! Blake, are you on this forum? Care to chime in about this?


----------



## dcoscina

Here's a short Herrmann type thing I did with CineBrass (also used VSL, EWLQSO Gold and Cinematic Strings). There's kind of an awkward modulation but meh, it's just a demo to hear the brass in an orchestral setting.

http://soundcloud.com/dcoscina/herrmann-cinebrass


----------



## germancomponist

After listening to many demos, to my ears, the CineBrass library has a very good sound. 

But when it comes to a comparison between real recordings and pieces done with this library, I am missing dynamics from pp to ff.... . 

I would like to listen to a line, maybe played only with the french horns, or the trumpets..... .


----------



## bwherry

*Re: Really quick CineBrass test*



Rob Elliott @ Sun Jun 12 said:


> Brian - maybe it is all those VSL years or how I currently use LASS - with banks - but I just might do this as well. Two questions:
> 
> 1. Did you use LASS' 'BANKS' template and just fill in the various CB 'changed' single arts?
> 
> 2. Did you ever figure at the short vel driven 1/8 note with MW controlled sustain. That would be very useful to have.
> 
> Thanks for posting.



Hey Rob. I didn't even know LASS had a BANKS template! I just went to the Kontakt "Files" menu and created a new instrument bank for each section. Into each of those banks I loaded up my sustain, 1/8, 1/4, and 1/2 patches into their own slots.

I haven't yet figured out how to do the velocity dynamics short _and_ CC1 dynamics sustain in the same patch yet. In this example (trumpets and horns) I just hit the 1/8 hard then immediately after switched to the sustain (with CC1 and CC11 ramps for the crescendo). I did snoop around a little bit in the group, mapping, and script editors this morning, just to get a handle on how hard it would be for me to make some custom patches (with shorter/customized releases, stacc+sus combinations, etc.). There's a lot of scripting going on, but it wouldn't be super hard to make simplified, single-articulation instruments using the CineBrass samples, especially for the 1/4 and 1/2 shorts, as those only have one dynamic level (1/8 has two). I sure would like to figure out how to do the morphing thing (instead of the usual dynamic crossfading) though... (I'm a software developer by day, but only very recently started doing any Kontakt scripting.)

HTH!

Brian


----------



## mikebarry

germancomponist @ Sun Jun 12 said:


> After listening to many demos, to my ears, the CineBrass library has a very good sound.
> 
> But when it comes to a comparison between real recordings and pieces done with this library, I am missing dynamics from pp to ff.... .
> 
> I would like to listen to a line, maybe played only with the french horns, or the trumpets..... .



There are actually plenty of dynamics in the patches.

For example here is Jason's piece without the orchestra:
[mp3]http://www.cinesamples.com/samples/CineBrass_Graves_Ederas_Brass.mp3[/mp3]


----------



## germancomponist

mikebarry @ Sun Jun 12 said:


> There are actually plenty of dynamics in the patches.
> 
> For example here is Jason's piece without the orchestra:
> [mp3]http://www.cinesamples.com/samples/CineBrass_Graves_Ederas_Brass.mp3[/mp3]



Mike, don`t get me wrong. I like the sound of your lib very much and I am using another lib from you all the time.

But when it comes to a comparison between real played brass and the demos I have listend to, .... I am not convinced.. Huh...., I am a purist. o-[][]-o


----------



## adg21

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



Vision @ Sat Jun 11 said:


> Hey all.. brass ensemble piece I was working on last night.
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/peterbrinkley/the-nibiru-legacy



Great stuff! One of my favourite demos since joining the forum, this should be an official demo!

I just bought it and it's one awesome library so thanks Cinesamples o-[][]-o


----------



## noiseboyuk

germancomponist @ Mon Jun 13 said:


> But when it comes to a comparison between real played brass and the demos I have listend to, .... I am not convinced.. Huh...., I am a purist. o-[][]-o



Gee, tough crowd! I know everyone is effectively calling for "more of everything" in this thread, but imho the velocity layers in the ensembles are a long way from having a problem on the basis of what I hear (and Jason's demo is a perfect example). No other commercially available sampled brass currently available is anything like this smooth in the transitions, imho. I'd rather the recording time on the next sessions was spent on other things (and yes on more layers for the solo horn, for example).

Still would be nice to hear a few short crescendos if anyone wants to post - can't remember hearing any in anyone's demos yet.


----------



## SvK

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

vision.....

Youre demo is super cool!!

Please listen to this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=skVmRCnu3Ak

That's Alex North's "Spartacus 1960" its the shit!

And this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dApIMjrn ... ata_player

That's Rozsa's' "Ben Hur 1959" it is also the sh$t 

Best,
SvK


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Did a small mockup of 20 seconds of Jurassic Park, which would be a good testbed for Cinebrass I think 

http://www.simonravn.com/media/SR-Cinebrass-JP-test.mp3

Shows that the tone of CB is not far off (although I did some EQ to the final mix, but I am pretty sure Shawn Murphy did that as well). It also shows some needs/problems:

1) Would be great to have shorter stacs, as Ed pointed out earlier. Those could just be timestretched versions of the regular staccs.
2) A couple of staccato notes stand out timbre/panning wise with some clear overblown "artifacts" - maybe those could be fixed by taking them from adjacent notes instead?
3) The need for solo horn/2 horns recordings for all the short notes + sustains - I am sure that will come in CB pro, but as it is now, it becomes a bit too much with 3-note chords.


----------



## dcoscina

I think with short articulations, the velocity switching is more effective for subtle changes in timbre. Using the mod (CC1) for dynamics for the short arts is time consuming as I have to go in and edit each line. But I do agree that the transitioning between velocities on long arts using the morphing is smoother than VSL or even SAM stuff. Gotta say those CineBrass trumpets kick total ass. Their tone is spot on and I have never found trumpets from other libs to be as real sounding. Probably why I shied away from them for so many pieces.


----------



## Ed

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



Simon Ravn @ Mon Jun 13 said:


> Did a small mockup of 20 seconds of Jurassic Park, which would be a good testbed for Cinebrass I think
> 
> http://www.simonravn.com/media/SR-Cinebrass-JP-test.mp3
> 
> Shows that the tone of CB is not far off (although I did some EQ to the final mix, but I am pretty sure Shawn Murphy did that as well). It also shows some needs/problems:
> 
> 1) Would be great to have shorter stacs, as Ed pointed out earlier. Those could just be timestretched versions of the regular staccs.
> 2) A couple of staccato notes stand out timbre/panning wise with some clear overblown "artifacts" - maybe those could be fixed by taking them from adjacent notes instead?
> 3) The need for solo horn/2 horns recordings for all the short notes + sustains - I am sure that will come in CB pro, but as it is now, it becomes a bit too much with 3-note chords.



Very nice Simon! The problems I noticed with this I think could be corrected with what i suggested and what you mentioned above. It just needs to feel more connected, that could be accomplished in a number of ways, at least two (time stretching medium shorts+or release control on them) but I'm sure there are more ways to do it. I also still think a scripted legato could help on solo lines using the arts patches.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



Simon Ravn @ Mon Jun 13 said:


> Did a small mockup of 20 seconds of Jurassic Park, which would be a good testbed for Cinebrass I think
> 
> http://www.simonravn.com/media/SR-Cinebrass-JP-test.mp3
> 
> Shows that the tone of CB is not far off (although I did some EQ to the final mix, but I am pretty sure Shawn Murphy did that as well). It also shows some needs/problems:
> 
> 1) Would be great to have shorter stacs, as Ed pointed out earlier. Those could just be timestretched versions of the regular staccs.
> 2) A couple of staccato notes stand out timbre/panning wise with some clear overblown "artifacts" - maybe those could be fixed by taking them from adjacent notes instead?
> 3) The need for solo horn/2 horns recordings for all the short notes + sustains - I am sure that will come in CB pro, but as it is now, it becomes a bit too much with 3-note chords.



Sounds great. I was playing this cue from the OST earlier - it sounds strikingly similar! Good thoughts on your caveats - the fast notes feel a little lumpy compared to the original but gee, the overall tone is damn near identical....


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



Simon Ravn @ Mon Jun 13 said:


> Did a small mockup of 20 seconds of Jurassic Park, which would be a good testbed for Cinebrass I think
> 
> http://www.simonravn.com/media/SR-Cinebrass-JP-test.mp3
> 
> Shows that the tone of CB is not far off (although I did some EQ to the final mix, but I am pretty sure Shawn Murphy did that as well). It also shows some needs/problems:
> 
> 1) Would be great to have shorter stacs, as Ed pointed out earlier. Those could just be timestretched versions of the regular staccs.
> 2) A couple of staccato notes stand out timbre/panning wise with some clear overblown "artifacts" - maybe those could be fixed by taking them from adjacent notes instead?
> 3) The need for solo horn/2 horns recordings for all the short notes + sustains - I am sure that will come in CB pro, but as it is now, it becomes a bit too much with 3-note chords.




Sounds good Simon. Tone is there. BUT really agree on your point #3. CB PRO gets that done and watch out!


----------



## KLS

Thought I'd chime in too - this was the first thing I tested with Cinebrass, a short snippit of imperial march just out of the box:

http://www.box.net/shared/mnlakv0ifzjnmynylh97

haven't had a lot of time to use it yet - I'm still learning.


----------



## burp182

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

This is for dcoscina:
David, I'd really like to hear the third stream demo you did with Cinebrass. The link doesn't work. It's a question I've had since the announcement of the library. Could you please repost that example?
Thanks.


----------



## Vision

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



SvK @ Sun Jun 12 said:


> vision.....
> 
> Youre demo is super cool!!
> 
> Please listen to this:
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=skVmRCnu3Ak
> 
> That's Alex North's "Spartacus 1960" its the [email protected]#t!
> 
> And this:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dApIMjrn ... ata_player
> 
> That's Rozsa's' "Ben Hur 1959" it is also the sh$t
> 
> Best,
> SvK



Nice! Thanks for the link SvK.


----------



## gregjazz

KLS @ Mon Jun 13 said:


> Thought I'd chime in too - this was the first thing I tested with Cinebrass, a short snippit of imperial march just out of the box:


Nice! I love the staccatos, and the trombones sound excellent! Awesome for a first test of the library.


----------



## dcoscina

I tried using VSL and Project SAM horn staccatos in place of CineBrass horns on my recent Herrmann track and they sounded flabby and unresponsive by comparison. Couldn't get that nice quick sound. Kudos Mikes!


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Maybe I'm missing something here, but can you not assign a CC# to turn on/off the mono/poly mode? If not, this would be EXTREMELY helpful because the scripts behave so differently under certain conditions.


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Here is an existing piece of music that I wrote:

http://soundcloud.com/caseyedwards/the-spirit-of-adventure

Here it is using ONLY CineBrass as the Brass Section:

http://soundcloud.com/caseyedwards/cinebrass-spirit-of-adventure



I had to sacrifice a lot of legato patches to get this to come off cleanly but those legato patches just can't keep up at the tempo of this piece. I REALLY can't wait for CB Pro because the tone of these instruments are just outstanding! You can definitely hear a more varied amount of articulations in the first one, but the overall sound of the Brass in the CineBrass example is WAY better. Especially those Trombones!


----------



## germancomponist

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



Casey Edwards @ Tue Jun 14 said:


> ... but the overall sound of the Brass in the CineBrass example is WAY better. Especially those Trombones!



+1

Yes, the sound/timbre of CineBrass is very very good.


----------



## Gerd Kaeding

FireGS @ Sun Jun 12 said:


> Probably the best version of Hedwig's Theme I've heard done with samples thus far. Found it on gearslutz.
> 
> http://www.box.net/shared/gpyncj2aeyhalog6sym1



Hi FireGS ,

is that Brass done with CineBrass ?

Thanks 

Gerd


----------



## Gerd Kaeding

KLS @ Mon Jun 13 said:


> Thought I'd chime in too - this was the first thing I tested with Cinebrass, a short snippit of imperial march just out of the box:
> 
> http://www.box.net/shared/mnlakv0ifzjnmynylh97
> 
> haven't had a lot of time to use it yet - I'm still learning.



Wow , ... first test out of the box .

Sounds great .


----------



## Gerd Kaeding

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



Simon Ravn @ Mon Jun 13 said:


> Did a small mockup of 20 seconds of Jurassic Park, which would be a good testbed for Cinebrass I think
> 
> http://www.simonravn.com/media/SR-Cinebrass-JP-test.mp3
> 
> Shows that the tone of CB is not far off (although I did some EQ to the final mix, but I am pretty sure Shawn Murphy did that as well). It also shows some needs/problems:
> 
> 1) Would be great to have shorter stacs, as Ed pointed out earlier. Those could just be timestretched versions of the regular staccs.
> 2) A couple of staccato notes stand out timbre/panning wise with some clear overblown "artifacts" - maybe those could be fixed by taking them from adjacent notes instead?
> 3) The need for solo horn/2 horns recordings for all the short notes + sustains - I am sure that will come in CB pro, but as it is now, it becomes a bit too much with 3-note chords.



Nice test , Simon .
And I agree with your ( and Ed's) Points here .

Nevertheless , I'm still blown away by the out of the box sound . ( Done with a library that even runs on a small macbook without taxing the CPU of it and is easy to set up ... )


----------



## Gerd Kaeding

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



Vision @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> Hey all.. brass ensemble piece I was working on last night.
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/peterbrinkley/the-nibiru-legacy




Hi vision ,

great writing ! Love it .


----------



## Gerd Kaeding

dcoscina @ Sun Jun 12 said:


> Here's a short Herrmann type thing I did with CineBrass (also used VSL, EWLQSO Gold and Cinematic Strings). There's kind of an awkward modulation but meh, it's just a demo to hear the brass in an orchestral setting.
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/dcoscina/herrmann-cinebrass



I like this little piece a lot . 

Dave , you've also posted a link to a 70s style demo with Cinebrass . Unfortunately the link doesn't work here . Would be nice to hear how CB sounds in that kind of context .

Best

Gerd


----------



## FireGS

Gerd Kaeding @ Wed Jun 15 said:


> FireGS @ Sun Jun 12 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Probably the best version of Hedwig's Theme I've heard done with samples thus far. Found it on gearslutz.
> 
> http://www.box.net/shared/gpyncj2aeyhalog6sym1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi FireGS ,
> 
> is that Brass done with CineBrass ?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Gerd
Click to expand...


Yes. =)


----------



## Gerd Kaeding

FireGS @ Wed Jun 15 said:


> Gerd Kaeding @ Wed Jun 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FireGS @ Sun Jun 12 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Probably the best version of Hedwig's Theme I've heard done with samples thus far. Found it on gearslutz.
> 
> http://www.box.net/shared/gpyncj2aeyhalog6sym1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi FireGS ,
> 
> is that Brass done with CineBrass ?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Gerd
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. =)
Click to expand...


Thanks ! ( ... add another : "amazing" ...)


----------



## Justus

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Superb demos!


----------



## TheUnfinished

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Damn you people, will you stop feeding my gear lust?! 

Matt


----------



## dcoscina

Sorry but the trumpets totally rule on CineBrass. To my ears, no other libs matches its tone. And yeah, it doesn't have half a million arts but I couldn't care less. I just want great real tone. And it has it!


----------



## dcoscina

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



TheUnfinished @ Wed Jun 15 said:


> Damn you people, will you stop feeding my gear lust?!
> 
> Matt



Oh just buy it! =o

I went back to EWQLSO and PS brass the other day just to compare and it just didn't sound as good...CineBrass is now my go-to brass lib.


----------



## Pochflyboy

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



dcoscina @ Wed Jun 15 said:


> CineBrass is now my go-to brass lib.



Oh Yeah... Def o-[][]-o


----------



## EwigWanderer

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Got it yesterday. I did my first try with it and I must say it sounds fantastic. I also tried to use OSR for the first time (even tough I bought it when it was released). 
My ears are kinda numb now so the mix isn't best possible :oops: 

Thank you CS for this library! o-[][]-o 

"Exciting Times"
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/433179/Music/Exciting%20Times%20v.3.mp3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/433179/Music/Ex ... %20v.3.mp3)

Hope you like it..

EDIT. New version. Fixed volume level.


----------



## noiseboyuk

...and one more demo. Not from me, but this was posted on the CS Facebook page. For my money, probably the most impressive yet - great mock up all round. Not sure who did it, actually.

http://www.cinesamples.com/samples/CSCB_Death_of_Pa_Kent.1.mp3 (http://www.cinesamples.com/samples/CSCB ... Kent.1.mp3)

EDIT - DOH! Just seen this thread http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21626


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



EwigWanderer @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> ......Thank you CS for this library! o-[][]-o
> 
> "Exciting Times"
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/433179/Music/Exciting%20Times%20v.3.mp3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/433179/Music/Ex ... %20v.3.mp3)
> 
> Hope you like it..
> 
> EDIT. New version. Fixed volume level.



Thanks for that. Those trumpets sound fantastico. Horns are strong. Good setting. Damnit, you're going to make me spend money!!! Argh...

Mahlon


----------



## Mahlon

noiseboyuk @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> ...and one more demo. Not from me, but this was posted on the CS Facebook page. For my money, probably the most impressive yet - great mock up all round. Not sure who did it, actually.
> 
> http://www.cinesamples.com/samples/CSCB_Death_of_Pa_Kent.1.mp3 (http://www.cinesamples.com/samples/CSCB ... Kent.1.mp3)



Yeah, this one is really selling me hard on CB.

Mahlon


----------



## Cinesamples

Another great one by Justus aka Michael Rother:
http://www.rothermusic.de/download/SciF ... 611_v2.mp3


----------



## james7275

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

That was pretty badass!


----------



## dcoscina

Yes, that was a great piece of music.


----------



## Per K

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Had some more fun:



strings are LASS, rest is mostly EW


----------



## Udo

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Mike or Mike, when will CB be available for download from distributors?


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

My latest composition has a short but very nice moment with Cinebrass towards the end: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9178387/Captain_Nemo.mp3


----------



## noiseboyuk

Hello Gregs & Mike, coupla questions. First, seeing how the harder legato stuff is coming and second if there is a plan to introduce CineBrass to resellers? Cheers!


----------



## Udo

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



Udo @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> Mike or Mike, when will CB be available for download from distributors?


>>> bump


----------



## c0mp0ser

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Hey guys,

There will be a CineBrass v1.1 update addressing the things people were talking about:
• Legato tweaking
• Poly/Mono button instead of dropdown (so it is assignable to CC etc)
• Other random tweaking/perfection

CineBrass is currently available exclusively at www.cinesamples.com due to the unique nature of this library.

Why dost thou pose the question? VAT tax? You can waive it if you have VAT ID.

MP


----------



## noiseboyuk

Good news on 1.1 - is there a rough ETA?

The reason I'm (at least) still affected by the VAT thing is that in the UK there is a Small Business Rate VAT scheme where you are VAT registered, charge VAT but don't claim VAT on small purchases (under £2k) - you get to keep a percentage of VAT charged instead.


----------



## dcoscina

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



c0mp0ser @ Mon Jun 20 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> There will be a CineBrass v1.1 update addressing the things people were talking about:
> • Legato tweaking
> • Poly/Mono button instead of dropdown (so it is assignable to CC etc)
> • Other random tweaking/perfection
> 
> CineBrass is currently available exclusively at www.cinesamples.com due to the unique nature of this library.
> 
> Why dost thou pose the question? VAT tax? You can waive it if you have VAT ID.
> 
> MP


Nice! I'm having a ball with CineBrass and this update looks cool.


----------



## c0mp0ser

CineBrass is about 12 days old... we'll need a few weeks.

VAT is the most complicated and convoluted thing on the planet. One thing is for certain: It is (unfortunately) the law to charge it. Man, I wish there was a way around it aside from the "eh, they'll never find out" method...


----------



## dedersen

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Wow, has it only been 12 days?! :shock: 
I decided to wait a bit before purchasing, and I feel like I've been punishing myself for months now.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Thanks Mike. So many great demos out there now, even the raw 1.0 is clearly a force to be reckoned with - congrats again.


----------



## Ian Dorsch

Just bought this last night, installed this morning, and really am enjoying fiddling with it. One question, though: is there a manual for this thing? :lol:

I can't find one on the CS site, and I don't really have the time to wade through this entire thread to figure out how best to use the lib. A pdf manual would be totally sweet.


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

There is a manual on the Cinebrass\Documentation folder.


----------



## Ian Dorsch

Woo-hoo, there it is! Thanks, devastat!


----------



## mducharme

I'm getting a strange "pop" noise and the sound suddenly stops for two solo horn pitches - can anybody confirm? I'd like to know whether its some weird problem with my system: The F# and G above middle C. They play for like 2-3 seconds and then *pop* and they stop working. All other notes are fine.


----------



## Ed

For those with CB try comparing the solo horn at the start of the JP theme with the solo horn in CB, its practically identical! I reccomend the full mix + reverb for full effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8zlUUrFK-M

For this passage the legato works really well, slow wide intervals. It would be great to have an option for fast legato that we can switch on the fly for other kinds of pasaages.


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Another good one is to play the solo horn on top of the Main Title of 'The Pacific' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtmAiNG2Lxk

..heck they were both mixed by the same guy


----------



## noiseboyuk

Ed @ Mon Jun 27 said:


> For those with CB try comparing the solo horn at the start of the JP theme with the solo horn in CB, its practically identical! I reccomend the full mix + reverb for full effect.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8zlUUrFK-M
> 
> For this passage the legato works really well, slow wide intervals. It would be great to have an option for fast legato that we can switch on the fly for other kinds of pasaages.



Finally got CineBrass! You're right - they are damn near identical. It is a shame it's just one layer for the horn, cos that tone is sensational. Bring on Pro!


----------



## Ed

noiseboyuk @ Mon Jun 27 said:


> Ed @ Mon Jun 27 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For those with CB try comparing the solo horn at the start of the JP theme with the solo horn in CB, its practically identical! I reccomend the full mix + reverb for full effect.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8zlUUrFK-M
> 
> For this passage the legato works really well, slow wide intervals. It would be great to have an option for fast legato that we can switch on the fly for other kinds of pasaages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally got CineBrass! You're right - they are damn near identical. It is a shame it's just one layer for the horn, cos that tone is sensational. Bring on Pro!
Click to expand...


Don't forget to add the low pass filter to modwheel we talked about earlier, Blake made a great little tutorial for Kontakt programming n00bs like me. 

Devastat is right about The Pacific as well, the sound is really spot on.

PS: Even though Symphobia2's solo legato horn is also only 1 layer the difference in sound is pretty amazing.


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*

Also to consider for the update, considering of course that it's not just me, but I believe the legato transition volume for the Horn Ensemble Legato Patch is off in the high dynamics. When I ride the modwheel about 3/4 to all the way up the dynamics go up in the notes but stay the same in the legato transition and it sounds like it's studdering between notes because the ring in the Horns is loud and over powering what little legato transition there is. This is most noticeable around the middle C range.


----------



## Ed

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (Jason Graves Demo Added)*



Casey Edwards @ Wed Jun 29 said:


> Also to consider for the update, considering of course that it's not just me, but I believe the legato transition volume for the Horn Ensemble Legato Patch is off in the high dynamics. When I ride the modwheel about 3/4 to all the way up the dynamics go up in the notes but stay the same in the legato transition and it sounds like it's studdering between notes because the ring in the Horns is loud and over powering what little legato transition there is. This is most noticeable around the middle C range.



The high dynamics in legato patch really doesn't work at all I agree. I don't hear any legato and the attacks are a bit weird, in a mix it can still sound fine though but would be nice to have that fixed somehow, either in this version or in the Pro version.


----------



## windshore

It would be nice to have a legato volume slider on the articulation patches so that when using the sus pedal for sustains, you could tweak the legato response.

Has anyone figured out a way to do this within the current scripting?


----------



## Casey Edwards

windshore @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> It would be nice to have a legato volume slider on the articulation patches so that when using the sus pedal for sustains, you could tweak the legato response.
> 
> Has anyone figured out a way to do this within the current scripting?



My understanding is that the articulation patches are just sustain patches when you hold down the sustain pedal. They are not True Legato patches so there are no legato intervals to control.


----------



## windshore

dahoo... of course! I'm an idiot... still figuring out how best to set this lib up... I'm hoping the update makes some of my need to tweak less necessary.

thanks for the reply!


----------



## Cinesamples

Hi all,
Here are the list of improvements we are implementing for the free CineBrass v1.1 update:

• Drastically improved legato. Better control of legato speed. Eliminate muddiness in fast performed passages.
• Improved intonation throughout, especially in the FF horns.
• Dynamic filter added to solo horn to allow for mod control of timbre, improving expressiveness.
• Improved dynamic consistency across all articulations in the articulations patches.
• Implement a method for layering shorts on the sustains. For stronger sustain attacks. In velocity map mode, have the velocity trigger the amount of quarter short layered on the sustain when pedal down.
• Button for the Poly/Mono mode, so that it can be switched with keyswitch or other midi command.
• New articulations patches with legato in the sustains.
• Bug fixes.

Let us know if we missed anything.


----------



## Casey Edwards

CineSamples @ Thu Jul 07 said:


> Hi all,
> Here are the list of improvements we are implementing for the free CineBrass v1.1 update:
> 
> • Drastically improved legato. Better control of legato speed. Eliminate muddiness in fast performed passages.
> • Improved intonation throughout, especially in the FF horns.
> • Dynamic filter added to solo horn to allow for mod control of timbre, improving expressiveness.
> • Improved dynamic consistency across all articulations in the articulations patches.
> • Implement a method for layering shorts on the sustains. For stronger sustain attacks. In velocity map mode, have the velocity trigger the amount of quarter short layered on the sustain when pedal down.
> • Button for the Poly/Mono mode, so that it can be switched with keyswitch or other midi command.
> • New articulations patches with legato in the sustains.
> • Bug fixes.
> 
> Let us know if we missed anything.



Sounds great to me, I can't think of anything else of the top of my head. Could you possibly give us an ETA on the update?


----------



## noiseboyuk

Yeah, looks like an excellent list!

I know Greg was looking into the best way to implement a keyswitch on / off for sustain while having velocity switching on short lengths, but it's tricky to work out the most flexible and logical solution... just seeing if you guys made a decision on the best way to go.

And to echo Casey's question - do you have a rough ETA? Can't wait!


----------



## Alex Temple

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

That seems like a pretty solid list, but I'm sure you would make a lot of people happy if you included a version of the articulation patches that allowed us to control the release times (preferably just by how long the key is held). Looking around I see more comments about this than anything else.


----------



## bwherry

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*



Alex Temple @ Thu Jul 07 said:


> That seems like a pretty solid list, but I'm sure you would make a lot of people happy if you included a version of the articulation patches that allowed us to control the release times (preferably just by how long the key is held). Looking around I see more comments about this than anything else.



+1 on ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'd also love for the softest dynamic (CC1 all the way down) of the sustains and legatos to be softer. Like a ppp instead of mp. That's all I can think of!


----------



## noiseboyuk

I rhink that's covered really, Alex - the new attack/sustain patch would work like that.


----------



## devastat

CineSamples @ Thu Jul 07 said:


> • Dynamic filter added to solo horn to allow for mod control of timbre, improving expressiveness.


Thank you so much for this!!


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*



Alex Temple @ Thu Jul 07 said:


> That seems like a pretty solid list, but I'm sure you would make a lot of people happy if you included a version of the articulation patches that allowed us to control the release times (preferably just by how long the key is held). Looking around I see more comments about this than anything else.



Good call, we'll definitely experiment with additional articulation lengths. 
However, Kontakt can't choose the articulation sample based on length of note because it would have to look into the future. Currently Kontakt does not ship with a Flux Capacitor... perhaps in Kontakt 5 though. 
Until then, the actual _methods_ for switching between artics will have to remain as they are, with the presets.


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*



CineSamples @ Thu Jul 07 said:


> Alex Temple @ Thu Jul 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That seems like a pretty solid list, but I'm sure you would make a lot of people happy if you included a version of the articulation patches that allowed us to control the release times (preferably just by how long the key is held). Looking around I see more comments about this than anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good call, we'll definitely experiment with additional articulation lengths.
> However, Kontakt can't choose the articulation sample based on length of note because it would have to look into the future. Currently Kontakt does not ship with a Flux Capacitor... perhaps in Kontakt 5 though.
> Until then, the actual _methods_ for switching between artics will have to remain as they are, with the presets.
Click to expand...


What about ADSR controls?


----------



## bwherry

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*



CineSamples @ Thu Jul 07 said:


> Alex Temple @ Thu Jul 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That seems like a pretty solid list, but I'm sure you would make a lot of people happy if you included a version of the articulation patches that allowed us to control the release times (preferably just by how long the key is held). Looking around I see more comments about this than anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good call, we'll definitely experiment with additional articulation lengths.
> However, Kontakt can't choose the articulation sample based on length of note because it would have to look into the future. Currently Kontakt does not ship with a Flux Capacitor... perhaps in Kontakt 5 though.
Click to expand...


When note is pressed, start playing sample.
When note is released, quickly fade out the sample that's playing for that note.

For instance, the long marcato (1/2 short). Right now it always plays the entire sample, no matter if the key is held down for one millisecond or ten seconds. What we're asking for is to stop (and by "stop" I mean "quickly fade out") the sample that's playing when the note is released. It doesn't take time travel for that as far as I know.  The sustains and legatos obviously stop playing when the node is released, but the fade out is pretty darn long - and consecutively played notes can have noticeable overlap from the note that came before.

I actually created new trumpets patches using the CineBrass samples (mapped out all the groups & zones for the different notes and dynamics, etc. - took forever) with customizable release times (and quieter soft notes). They works great, except I've only got the standard dynamic crossfading, not the sweet morphing action hidden inside the CineBrass scripting. :( Still better than the trumpet samples I was using before, but not as good as they could be w/ Greg's touch... 

Thanks for listening (and asking)!

Brian


----------



## Alex Temple

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*



Casey Edwards @ Thu Jul 07 said:


> CineSamples @ Thu Jul 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alex Temple @ Thu Jul 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That seems like a pretty solid list, but I'm sure you would make a lot of people happy if you included a version of the articulation patches that allowed us to control the release times (preferably just by how long the key is held). Looking around I see more comments about this than anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good call, we'll definitely experiment with additional articulation lengths.
> However, Kontakt can't choose the articulation sample based on length of note because it would have to look into the future. Currently Kontakt does not ship with a Flux Capacitor... perhaps in Kontakt 5 though.
> Until then, the actual _methods_ for switching between artics will have to remain as they are, with the presets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What about ADSR controls?
Click to expand...


Right, this is what I'm talking about. Not something that would actually determine which sample to trigger based on the length the note is held (I know that would be impossible unless you had some sort of offline MIDI analysis plugin or something), just a way to shorten the tail on the already selected articulation. I don't see the sustain+articulation patch as solving this, since the main issue with the articulation releases is that they ring out too long, not that they are too short. I mean, when they are the right length for the phrase, it's great to have that natural release. But when you have 3 quarter notes going A, B, C, no matter how short you press the key you still have the full release. Sometimes it works but sometimes it creates an unintentional effect of sounding like an A+B+C cluster with staggered attacks on different instruments when all we really want to do is climb the scale  All we're looking for is some way of cutting out the natural release for the sample - at least having that option available.


----------



## KMuzzey

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

Hey Mikes,

I'd love something like LASS' A.R.T. tool for the short articulations in the brass, so you could, say, hold down the sustain pedal and a single note, and it would fire off short spiccatos at the usual 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/8T, etc. My weighted keyboard sucks at hitting the lower velocities so it's really hard for me to do fast short spicc repeated notes with the velocity-triggered patches.

Kerry


----------



## Justus

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

There was a cutoff sustain sample on the Low G of the Trombones Patch.
Will be fixed I guess...


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*



bwherry @ Thu Jul 07 said:


> When note is pressed, start playing sample.
> When note is released, quickly fade out the sample that's playing for that note.
> 
> For instance, the long marcato (1/2 short). Right now it always plays the entire sample, no matter if the key is held down for one millisecond or ten seconds. What we're asking for is to stop (and by "stop" I mean "quickly fade out") the sample that's playing when the note is released.



IMHO that will sound absolutely awful. A fade out will sound like a fade out, the most unnatural musical sound in the world. What may work instead is a release trigger.

But I think the better solution - and more in keeping with the CineBrass ethos imho - will be the new fast attack sustain option. That will have bite, and release when you release the note, at whatever length.

As to the ADSR comments - I'm pretty sceptical about ADSR as a solution to that problem of several overlapping notes, I think either it would sound unnatural or it would be very fiddly to control which is - again - not quite the "just play it" ethos of the library imho. I think a better solution might lie in Greg's brilliant scripting - it might be theoretically possible to detect fast playing and know when there are a lot of tails all muddying things up, then start tailing off the releases of the oldest samples. That would be a terrific thing if it were possible to program.


----------



## Alex Temple

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*



noiseboyuk @ Thu Jul 07 said:


> bwherry @ Thu Jul 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When note is pressed, start playing sample.
> When note is released, quickly fade out the sample that's playing for that note.
> 
> For instance, the long marcato (1/2 short). Right now it always plays the entire sample, no matter if the key is held down for one millisecond or ten seconds. What we're asking for is to stop (and by "stop" I mean "quickly fade out") the sample that's playing when the note is released.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO that will sound absolutely awful. A fade out will sound like a fade out, the most unnatural musical sound in the world. What may work instead is a release trigger.
Click to expand...


You would think it would sound awful, but when it lies in the middle of the phrase and there's another note immediately following it it becomes much less noticeable. And while neither one is ideal, I think it more real this way than to have a bunch of notes still releasing while the next one is being sounded. I've found this approach works very well (and is the default scripting) for the other brass libraries I have. They just don't sound as good, in their tone itself, as Cinebrass. I don't think anyone is asking for this to replace the existing behavior, but to have it as an available option (similar to the already extensive menu of choices available for the method of switching articulations) would make many of us happy. The script idea you mentioned would work too, and probably with better results. I imagine it could be more challenging to program, I'm not sure that would make it into 1.1.

I'm otherwise very happy with this library and I definitely appreciate the openness of the dialogue between Cinesamples and their customers.


----------



## marcotronic

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*



bwherry @ Thu Jul 07 said:


> I'd also love for the softest dynamic (CC1 all the way down) of the sustains and legatos to be softer. Like a ppp instead of mp. That's all I can think of!



+1! Really want/need that!

Thanks! Looking forward to the update!!!

Marco


----------



## dannthr

There are Marcato Samples in the Solo Horn Patch that are unused, why not use them?

I don't see why legato patches and articulation patches are separate, why not just have holding the sustain pedal activate the legato rather than a generic sustain?


----------



## Justus

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

CC11 CONTROL:
When you switch the dynamic control to cc11 you can't hear the soft dynamics anymore because cc11 controls the overall volume too.
I would love to have that fixed in the update. Right now I control all my instruments via Volume Pedal - except for CineBrass.

Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## caseyjames

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

I bought CineBrass and I am using it on my current score (which is due tonight)

I'm very happy with my purchase but there are a few things I would really like to see.

Dynamics control over ALL patches... It seems a few of the instruments have no dynamics control at all, aside from CC11. 

I want to be able rely on a single dynamics control for all instruments to make composing fluid. Since the library is using morphing, I would really like to see those patches run through an AET filter -- even of another brass instrument -- to get the approximate roll off and volume curve. Since the morphing in Kontakt is relative and really only a set of static EQ curves, this sort of approach seems to work fine.

A single sample of a crescendo could be sliced into its dynamic sections like windows of an FFT. The source for the morphing filter does not need to be made from distinct notes if the reason that there is no dynamics control is that low dynamics simply weren't recorded during the session.

Did you buy chance send an IR sweep through the space when recording the library? I would really like to be able to place other dry instruments in the same space, running through the same signal chain, to fill in the gaps where CineBrass isn't focused.

Including IR's for sample libraries is something developers NEED to start doing. We are in a new era of sample products - the days of all inclusive libraries like VSL, Mirsoslav and EW Symphonic Orchestra are over, yet no developer has made any inroads towards easing the integration with the new single section approach that every developer is now taking. There has been a steep change in direction and zero effort to compensate for it.

LASS is the only one that seems to have sort of come in the vicinity of this by including an IR library, but they advise NOT to use them with other instruments as they have been processed to work with LASS specifically. I'm not sure how significant that is in a practical context, but it underlines the point that this very critical need has been completely ignored.

I spend so much time EQing and tweaking reverb settings trying to come up with a match for something that has no point of reference (what would a violin sound like in the CineBrass space?) only to achieve approximate results, which is very frustrating and could easily be remedied.


----------



## Justus

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*



Justus @ Thu Jul 07 said:


> There was a cutoff sustain sample on the Low G of the Trombones Patch.
> Will be fixed I guess...



Hmm, works now!
So, forget what I said.


----------



## dedersen

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

Couldn't hold myself back any longer. Purchased, downloading, excited, excited, excited. 

I'm getting myself ready to build a new orchestral template centered on this and LASS. The thought alone makes me all warm inside.


----------



## dcoscina

Dang, I thought they'd already released 1.1!!

Ah well, works terrific as it stands.


----------



## dedersen

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

Ah, sorry to disappoint.


----------



## adg21

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

Any more info on ETA on 1.1
The dynamics in the Articulations is driving me a bit crazy. In the Trumpets there seems to be Two layers of dynamics for the 1/8 and only one (very loud) for the 1/4 and 1/2, I'm hoping that'll get fixed. Ta


----------



## nickhmusic

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

I would also like to know when the 1.1 update will be released. Any chance you could give a rough timeline - Sept? Oct?

Thanks


----------



## devastat

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

As it's been taking this long for the update, my wishful thinking is that it means that there is some new samples from the receent Cinebrass Pro recorings also put into the 1.1 version of Cinebrass.


----------



## rpaillot

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*



adg21 @ Thu Aug 18 said:


> Any more info on ETA on 1.1
> The dynamics in the Articulations is driving me a bit crazy. In the Trumpets there seems to be Two layers of dynamics for the 1/8 and only one (very loud) for the 1/4 and 1/2, I'm hoping that'll get fixed. Ta



Yeah same thing here ( for all instruments btw ) . What I think is they probably sampled only one dynamic for the long marcatos.


----------



## adg21

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*



rpaillot @ Mon Aug 29 said:


> Yeah same thing here ( for all instruments btw ) . What I think is they probably sampled only one dynamic for the long marcatos.



Yep. My thoughts too. One dynamic layer is OK I guess, although not ideal. Two is better...However, what's confusing is having 2 dynamic layers on one (1/8th) and only 1 dynamic layer on the others (1/4 & 1/2). It doesn't really work


----------



## mpalenik

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*



nickhmusic @ Mon Aug 29 said:


> I would also like to know when the 1.1 update will be released. Any chance you could give a rough timeline - Sept? Oct?
> 
> Thanks



Another post elsewhere on the forum referred to the update as v1.5, which sounds like it will have significant improvements over the current version.

I, too, would like some kind of time table as to when the new version will be coming out. I made a post on their Facebook page related to this about a week ago, but there was no response. Couldn't we at least get some kind of estimate? Are we talking days? Weeks? A month? Several months?


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

They've said already on their fan page I think that they are not going to ballpark an ETA when they have no idea when it's going to be availabe. I would say weeks is a safe bet but you know they'll let us know when they do.


----------



## mpalenik

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*



Casey Edwards @ Mon Aug 29 said:


> They've said already on their fan page I think that they are not going to ballpark an ETA when they have no idea when it's going to be availabe. I would say weeks is a safe bet but you know they'll let us know when they do.



Since I rarely go on facebook these days (and checking just now, it doesn't appear to be posted in any place that's still visible), I didn't see that post, but I don't see how they can have no idea whatsoever. It sounds like most of the scripting is done, unless I misunderstood some of the things I've read.

Besides, I thought they had said something about Pro being available within six months, or something like that. I could be misremembering some fan speculation as coming from them, though.

And if there's any degree of confidence that you have in your claim of "weeks", surely they can make claims with even greater confidence.


----------



## markblasco

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*



mpalenik @ Mon Aug 29 said:


> Since I rarely go on facebook these days (and checking just now, it doesn't appear to be posted in any place that's still visible), I didn't see that post, but I don't see how they can have no idea whatsoever. It sounds like most of the scripting is done, unless I misunderstood some of the things I've read.
> 
> Besides, I thought they had said something about Pro being available within six months, or something like that. I could be misremembering some fan speculation as coming from them, though.
> 
> And if there's any degree of confidence that you have in your claim of "weeks", surely they can make claims with even greater confidence.



There are some companies that announce estimated release dates, and then constantly push them back until their product finally is released, and their customers are all unhappy. It seems to me that Cinesamples typically doesn't say anything about the release dates until they are absolutely sure when they are, or the product is ready to go. I'm sure with Cinebrass, and all of the discussion about it, they aren't going to name a date until they are absolutely sure it will be ready and out the door on time.


----------



## Justus

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

My biggest wish for the update:

When choosing CC11 (Volume Pedal) for dynamics CC11 should not control the overall volume just the dynamics.

EDIT: Sorry, I posted this before...


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

I have another query for an update. I'm not sure why it is like this, but the Trombones and Tuba + Bass Trombone patches both activate sustain patches with the sustain pedal being used and are released when your fingers are no longer playing that note. However, in the Cimbasso + Tuba patch a low velocity is what triggers the sustains and if you keep the sustain pedal down it keeps the notes held until the pedal is released. This is bothersome when I want to do a chordal like passage with all 3 activated in one take and the patches are behaving differently. I think the Trombones and Tuba + Bass Trombone patch is superior in the way it's utilized.

I also noticed that when I hold down the sustain pedal in the Cimbasso + Tuba Patch and use a high velocity the note defaults to a C(2) no matter what note I play.


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

Hi Casey, 
Thanks for your feedback.
I think you mean "Cimbasso + Bass Trombone Articulations"?
Yeah, this can be switched in the custom map with the dropdown.





We had it this way by default, since this particular patch is just sustains and 1/8 shorts. Felt more playable this way. But you can change pretty easy, and even do a "save as..." if you want.

As for your other note, I am testing it our v1.1 update and that issue is resolved.

So, the update is done. The only element holding us back is reprogramming for all the other mic positions. The FullMIX is done. There is no quick way within the NKI to do a batch rename of all the sample names for each mic position without reverse engineering the NKI files. Something we would rather not do, hoping NI can offer a solution soon...
Anyone know a solution?


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*



CineSamples @ Sun Sep 11 said:


> Hi Casey,
> Thanks for your feedback.
> I think you mean "Cimbasso + Bass Trombone Articulations"?
> Yeah, this can be switched in the custom map with the dropdown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We had it this way by default, since this particular patch is just sustains and 1/8 shorts. Felt more playable this way. But you can change pretty easy, and even do a "save as..." if you want.
> 
> As for your other note, I am testing it our v1.1 update and that issue is resolved.
> 
> So, the update is done. The only element holding us back is reprogramming for all the other mic positions. The FullMIX is done. There is no quick way within the NKI to do a batch rename of all the sample names for each mic position without reverse engineering the NKI files. Something we would rather not do, hoping NI can offer a solution soon...
> Anyone know a solution?



Ah, thank you so much! I remember you guys raving about how editable all the patches were and I should have remembered to at least look! Thanks again for your quick customer service. Can't wait for the update! o-[][]-o


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: CineBrass RELEASED!! (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*



CineSamples @ Sun Sep 11 said:


> There is no quick way within the NKI to do a batch rename of all the sample names for each mic position without reverse engineering the NKI files. Something we would rather not do, hoping NI can offer a solution soon...
> Anyone know a solution?



I see the problem. Hmmm... long shot, but is there any way to use a macro to at least partially automate this?


----------



## dannthr

Oh my god, guys, I got all excited that there'd be news on 1.1.

Sheesh!


----------



## noiseboyuk

dannthr @ Mon Sep 12 said:


> Oh my god, guys, I got all excited that there'd be news on 1.1.
> 
> Sheesh!



Well, this is kinda news - they just posted on Facebook that 1.1 is now with Native Instruments. I thought the long wait in Germany was only for new samples, so hopefully since this is a patch update only this will be quick.


----------



## dannthr

I'd cross my fingers but then typing would be impossible.


----------



## stonzthro

No joke - really looking forward to this!


----------



## Casey Edwards

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

Their facebook page just announced that 1.1 is finished and is at Native waiting for them.


----------



## adg21

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

Awesome, how long does NI usually take?


----------



## Ian Dorsch

A veritable eternity.


----------



## MaestroRage

Ian Dorsch @ Wed Sep 14 said:


> A veritable eternity.



so true :c...


----------



## noiseboyuk

Ian Dorsch @ Thu Sep 15 said:


> A veritable eternity.



But this is what I was referring to in my previous post. I thought patch updates were very quick? It's the sample coding / copy protection stuff that takes 3-6 weeks isn't it? Mikes?


----------



## gregjazz

noiseboyuk @ Thu Sep 15 said:


> But this is what I was referring to in my previous post. I thought patch updates were very quick? It's the sample coding / copy protection stuff that takes 3-6 weeks isn't it? Mikes?


I think it should be faster, because they don't have to re-encode the samples--that's already done. All that needs to be done is encoding the patches, so that they load in the Kontakt Player, etc.


----------



## dannthr

Where is that German precision when you need it?


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Free Update coming, need your input.)*

Hi all,

While we wait for Native to re-encode the NKI's and package files, here is a screencast video explaining some of the new enhancements and features:


----------



## Ryan

ohh, looking at it now

* Like the Double & Triple tonguing  nice!


----------



## germancomponist

This is very interesting!


----------



## Ed

Saw this a few days ago, was first viewer then CS put it on unlisted heheh


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

All sounds awesome! Nice work!! o-[][]-o


----------



## dedersen

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

Wow. Just wow. This looks amazing, I cannot wait to grab this. The new legato is such a vast improvement it will be like a whole new library. The double-tripple tounging implementation is briliant.

One question, how are you dealing with shortening the short articulations in response to note off messages? In particular, are you doing anything to avoid artificially reducing the size of the room due to cutting it off? It was difficult to tell from the video whether there was an effect due to this or not.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Bravo, guys. Love every one of those. I don't know if you want to reveal your trade secret for the legato, but this opens all sorts of doors for future libraries as well, eh? This surely is the answer to the old VSL silent stage question. What sounded so good on the short clip we heard was that it retained all the characteristics of the room without the build up... I didn't hear any strange pumping, truncating or other weird side effects. I know we really need to get our hands on it ourselves to put it through its paces to be totally convinced, but that looks really exciting - it was certainly my biggest issue with 1.0.

Loving the shorts on sustains, that'll be really natural to simply activate on key velocity. And the double / triple tonguing is really simple and clever... looks such fun to play too. Again, this is where I'm so consistently impressed with you guys and Greg's OTS work - it's about keeping everything playable and simple. And wow, just think... that's everything now just in one patch per instrument, isn't it? Double / triple tonging, legato mono and poly, sustain, 3 shorts and variable length short, cresc / dim of course... all on as little as two keyswitches and a tiny RAM hit! Love it, love it, love it.


----------



## gregjazz

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*



dedersen @ Thu Sep 15 said:


> One question, how are you dealing with shortening the short articulations in response to note off messages? In particular, are you doing anything to avoid artificially reducing the size of the room due to cutting it off? It was difficult to tell from the video whether there was an effect due to this or not.



Rather than using a simple time stretch, which would not only introduce audio artifacts but also artificially reduce the size of the room, we're using a release sample based system. That way if you release the note before the short articulation naturally ends, it plays the appropriate release sample to create a realistic release tail.


----------



## Cinesamples

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*



dedersen @ Thu Sep 15 said:


> Wow. Just wow. This looks amazing, I cannot wait to grab this. The new legato is such a vast improvement it will be like a whole new library. The double-tripple tounging implementation is briliant.
> 
> One question, how are you dealing with shortening the short articulations in response to note off messages? In particular, are you doing anything to avoid artificially reducing the size of the room due to cutting it off? It was difficult to tell from the video whether there was an effect due to this or not.



It just cuts out the middle of the sample and jumps to the release using a smooth crossfade. The tail of the room is always maintained.


----------



## Cinesamples

..... what Greg said


----------



## Ian Dorsch

Awesome. Can't wait!


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

I've always read about phase aligning when marrying two samples. How did you guys do those Sfzp's? Sounds excellent on your demo, which is quite exciting because of all the expressive nuances that allows !!


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*



jamwerks @ Thu Sep 15 said:


> I've always read about phase aligning when marrying two samples. How did you guys do those Sfzp's? Sounds excellent on your demo, which is quite exciting because of all the expressive nuances that allows !!



Actually I don't think it's really a problem with 2 different samples. You only get phase issues when you're dealing with the same actual recording. You'd potentially have volume / smoothing issues... I agree whether it was done simply or via anything tricksy it sounded good in the walkthrough though.


----------



## dedersen

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*



gregjazz @ Thu Sep 15 said:


> dedersen @ Thu Sep 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> One question, how are you dealing with shortening the short articulations in response to note off messages? In particular, are you doing anything to avoid artificially reducing the size of the room due to cutting it off? It was difficult to tell from the video whether there was an effect due to this or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rather than using a simple time stretch, which would not only introduce audio artifacts but also artificially reduce the size of the room, we're using a release sample based system. That way if you release the note before the short articulation naturally ends, it plays the appropriate release sample to create a realistic release tail.
Click to expand...


Brilliant, exactly the reply I was hoping for. Must have been "interesting" extracting all those release samples.


----------



## IFM

Can't wait for the update! This sounds fantastic.


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

Unfortunately I know less than nothing about audio files and such. I do combine two samples (VSL) in VI Pro sometimes to get a bow change sound, using a sus sample with a sfz mixed in low. I've never gotten it to sound convincing though. :oops:


----------



## stonzthro

MUCH needed improvements - thanks guys!


----------



## Justus

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

Yeeeeaaaahhh!


----------



## Farkle

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*



Justus @ Thu Sep 15 said:


> Yeeeeaaaahhh!



+1000!

Thank you oodles, Mike and Mike and Greg! This looks and sounds epic, and as someone earlier said, it's minimizing the midi tracks on my template. Thank you, can't wait to download it!

Mike


----------



## adg21

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

Wow very very nice! I can't wait to play it!


----------



## MigueldOliveira

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

Very well done guys!

That was surely the knock out punch on the CB x HB

With all these new features plus the legendary EW' stubbornness not to release their libraries in Kontakt format, I honestly can't contemplate a valid reason to buy HB (unless I could buy both).


----------



## caseyjames

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

I'm very glad I bought this. These fellows are very innovative and in touch .


----------



## legramophone

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

Despite the fact that I love this company, its work ethic and that they stand head and shoulders above East West in terms of customer service, attitude, support and enthusiasm towards their customers - 

I cannot understand how they haven't included - as part of the basic package - Solo Trumpet Articulations or Solo Trombone Articulations.

I know that these additions may well be coming with CB Pro, but it seems like a much needed and staple part of a modern brass package.

Watching the update screencast - the Trumpets Ensemble Articulations playing the short notes on more than 1 key - adds a completely artificial number of Trumpets to the sound - which in my opinion creates an artificial, synthy sound. I don't get how this has been overlooked?

It's this lack of Solo Instruments that has stopped me buying - at this stage.

I would, however - much rather invest in a company like Cinesamples, rather than the competition. They are great people in this world of sample library manufacturers.


----------



## JT

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*



legramophone @ Thu Sep 15 said:


> Watching the update screencast - the Trumpets Ensemble Articulations playing the short notes on more than 1 key - adds a completely artificial number of Trumpets to the sound - which in my opinion creates an artificial, synthy sound. I don't get how this has been overlooked?


I'm a trumpet player, and I agree with what you said here. It was kinda synthy. On any double or triple tongued playing, in a live situation, it's not as mathmatically precise as what we heard here.. 

What I heard on the video impressed me though with its possibilities. I know that I'm going to have to play each track in separately and introduce some of that human imprecision, to really bring it to life. It wasn't the artificial number of trumpets that I was hearing that bothered me, it was the execution that was too perfect. 

I'm really looking forward to this update.

JT


----------



## caseyjames

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*



legramophone @ Thu Sep 15 said:


> Despite the fact that I love this company, its work ethic and that they stand head and shoulders above East West in terms of customer service, attitude, support and enthusiasm towards their customers -
> 
> I cannot understand how they haven't included - as part of the basic package - Solo Trumpet Articulations or Solo Trombone Articulations.
> 
> I know that these additions may well be coming with CB Pro, but it seems like a much needed and staple part of a modern brass package.
> 
> Watching the update screencast - the Trumpets Ensemble Articulations playing the short notes on more than 1 key - adds a completely artificial number of Trumpets to the sound - which in my opinion creates an artificial, synthy sound. I don't get how this has been overlooked?
> 
> It's this lack of Solo Instruments that has stopped me buying - at this stage.
> 
> I would, however - much rather invest in a company like Cinesamples, rather than the competition. They are great people in this world of sample library manufacturers.



I think its awesome what they did.

They previewed a product, everyone wanted it for their latest and greatest project, and instead of making us all wait 8 months till it was completely finished, they put it in our hands right away. This let use both use the product and test it so changes could be made based on user feedback so we won't need to wait 8 months plus another four months for every patch to be redone with the the kind of changes that were introduced in the 1.1.

I will definitely be buying the Pro upgrade that will have the obviously missing bits, but in the mean time, I've used this on 8 scores and counting.

I wish more developers would put the tools we need today in our hands today.


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

The Pro is well on the way now - and for that we recorded a3 triads for the bones and trumpets to handle those John Williams stuff. Also of course soloist articulations - John Lewis on trumpet. Can't beat that. Also some new 2x Trumpet stuff.

The reason for the split was a business decision - some of our artists were paid around EDIT: LOTS O money lol plus generous back end and pension, health etc.. Thats all - we weren't looking to cheat anyone. The PRO will be very affordable by the way.

I think mid next week might be a fair guess for getting this update out.


----------



## Cinesamples

We will start a thread for all things "PRO" related. As mikebarry said, we are well on our way with PRO. Goal is to submit to NI on October 1st.

Thanks all... will keep you posted on 1.1

MP


----------



## IFM

Fantastic news, glad I just bought this!


----------



## marcotronic

Awesome update! Looking forward to this!

Marco


----------



## shakuman

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

It's an amazing update! Thanks M&M =o 

Shakuman.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Great news on release dates - probably early November for Pro once it's been through the NI mill then, but hey that's only a couple of months from now. And 1.1 next week is terrific.

I agree that Cinesamples have done this very well. The point is that the company has a good reputation and people buy knowing if there are early glitches (as there were) they'll get sorted. And not begrudgingly sorted with a surly attitude - we all got involved and positively invited to pitch in with requests... CB will be a better product for it, and in the meantime we had a mostly-very usable great product to be going on with. Hats off.


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

Cinebrass Pro going to NI in two weeks?!?!

You guys are lightning fast ! Incredible =o


----------



## dedersen

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*



JT @ Fri Sep 16 said:


> On any double or triple tongued playing, in a live situation, it's not as mathmatically precise as what we heard here..



That's an interesting point, and might be an interesting thing to add to a future update. I'd imagine it would be relatively straightforward to implement some sort of random timing feature, a la what LASS has in their humanization script. Just add a random delay to each additional note stemming from the double/triple tounging, with the maximum size of the delay configurable by the user.

Exciting news about the PRO update! Man, there are some insanely interesting updates just around the corner in VI land these days.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*



dedersen @ Fri Sep 16 said:


> That's an interesting point, and might be an interesting thing to add to a future update. I'd imagine it would be relatively straightforward to implement some sort of random timing feature, a la what LASS has in their humanization script. Just add a random delay to each additional note stemming from the double/triple tounging, with the maximum size of the delay configurable by the user.



Hmm, not sure that would work so good on an ensemble recording. I think the point is that the timings vary in the individual players WITHIN the ensemble, varying the whole thing I think would be too crude.

However, that's the kind of thing Pro might be able to handle with the divisi setup - working in pairs you might get away with it. The divisi feature is going to be really interesting... the guys have said that it's a new and intuitive way of controlling divisi, looking forward to seeing how they've done it.


----------



## TheUnfinished

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

Very impressive. Definitely going on my Christmas shopping list.


----------



## dedersen

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*



noiseboyuk @ Fri Sep 16 said:


> dedersen @ Fri Sep 16 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's an interesting point, and might be an interesting thing to add to a future update. I'd imagine it would be relatively straightforward to implement some sort of random timing feature, a la what LASS has in their humanization script. Just add a random delay to each additional note stemming from the double/triple tounging, with the maximum size of the delay configurable by the user.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, not sure that would work so good on an ensemble recording. I think the point is that the timings vary in the individual players WITHIN the ensemble, varying the whole thing I think would be too crude.
Click to expand...


I think you misunderstood. I probably wasn't clear because two different issues were being discussed at once. I didn't mean it as a way of avoding the problem of playing chords with an ensemble patch, which you're right, wouldn't be solved with such a crude method. 

Rather, I just ment it as a way of simply making the repetition less mechanic. Come to think of it though, I had forgotten how ingenious the Mikes were in implementing this, since for double tounging at least, you DO have control over when the repeated note sounds. So my point is rendered moot by those damn clever fellas, I guess. I'll go back to drooling over that video now...


----------



## justwanderedin

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

Looking great!

And I think the finer imperfections (LASS style) will have to wait for the PRO version and its divisi.


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

Are the flash frames of the apple logo (eg 16-17 secs) intentional? I now have an urge to go to the Apple Store...


----------



## spacegaier

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*



wilx @ Fri Sep 16 said:


> Are the flash frames of the apple logo (eg 16-17 secs) intentional? I now have an urge to go to the Apple Store...


I saw them too and was highly confused as to their purpose.


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

I wasn't. I knew what I had to do. I've just bought 8 ipads and 5 mac pros. :shock: 

Subliminal imaging aside - thanks for the video Mikes. Awesome to see so many user suggestions taken seriously and implemented so well. Can't wait to start using 1.1.


----------



## Cinesamples

That apple logo is on my desktop wallpaper. Stupid Screenflow made the video window disappear 1 frame before the cut to black, which is why you see it.
Can't seem to make that go away.

EDIT: Fixed. Bug in screenflow. Great program but still a bit buggy.


----------



## mpalenik

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

This looks great. It's everything I wanted from the update. I can't wait until pro comes out.


----------



## vrocko

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

They just announced on there Facebook that 1.1 is back from NI. That was quick.


----------



## spacegaier

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*



vrocko @ Tue Sep 20 said:


> They just announced on there Facebook that 1.1 is back from NI. That was quick.


Had the same thought when I saw it some minutes ago on FB.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*



vrocko @ Mon Sep 19 said:


> They just announced on there Facebook that 1.1 is back from NI. That was quick.



Fantastic! Looks like the turnaround really is much quicker without sample encoding.


----------



## Cinesamples

Yup, just integrating the new patches into our watermarking system.

Make sure you have your NI Serial Number for CineBrass handy.

Almost there...


----------



## dannthr

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

Anticipation... it's making me wait!


----------



## RobertTewes

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

Any idea if it is coming today?
The refresh button on my cell phone is going to break if I keep checking every few minutes! o=?

By the way...with only 95,000 + views, it seems to me virtually no one else seems interested in this topic!! :D


----------



## Cinesamples

Just making sure the NKI delivery works with new orders as well. Then we test.
Thanks for your patience. This new system will be great with new updates coming up for some other products, including VOXOS.


----------



## Pochflyboy

pretty XCITED! this was a nice update... Can't wait to play with the new legatos. They look awesome.


----------



## shakuman

Pochflyboy @ Wed Sep 21 said:


> pretty XCITED! this was a nice update... Can't wait to play with the new legatos. They look awesome.



+1 o=<


----------



## markblasco

Man, I wish this had been done before I purchased Hollywood Brass :( Anyone want to trade


----------



## dcoscina

markblasco @ Wed Sep 21 said:


> Man, I wish this had been done before I purchased Hollywood Brass :( Anyone want to trade



I'm sure Hollywood Brass is quite excellent. Just keep working with it. That said, it was the first EW release I didn't bite at. CineBrass does the job for me.


----------



## markblasco

dcoscina @ Wed Sep 21 said:


> markblasco @ Wed Sep 21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man, I wish this had been done before I purchased Hollywood Brass :( Anyone want to trade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure Hollywood Brass is quite excellent. Just keep working with it. That said, it was the first EW release I didn't bite at. CineBrass does the job for me.
Click to expand...


Yes, Hollywood Brass is actually the EW product I like the best out of all of them that I have, but I think Cinebrass would have been a better fit for me. At the time when I was getting ready to start the film I'm working on now, I wasn't sure about it, but that has now changed.

I think for people who like using previous EW products, Hollywood brass is great, with a few bugs that I hope they fix soon. I just would have preferred to have fewer patches, laid out in the way that Cinebrass is laid out, and in Kontakt format. Play takes up way way more RAM and processing power than my Kontakt patches (since loading up the 15 or so Hollywood Brass Patches that I am using, my projects take twice as long to save, I need to increase my buffer earlier, and it uses about 6 gigs of ram. The whole rest of my template using Kontakt only takes 3.5 gigs, since you can star the patch empty and load the samples on the fly).


----------



## MaestroRage

markblasco @ Wed Sep 21 said:


> dcoscina @ Wed Sep 21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> markblasco @ Wed Sep 21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man, I wish this had been done before I purchased Hollywood Brass :( Anyone want to trade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


hmm, if only this was fully legit I would actually be interested in taking you up on your offer :D! I love Cinebrasses sound more then HWB, but I do find myself often feeling a bit let down by lack of articulations. As I have enough RAM to deal with PLAY and have had no issues with it to date, seems like a perfect fit lol. Well I guess we'll see what CineBrass Pro brings in.


----------



## Farkle

MaestroRage @ Wed Sep 21 said:


> markblasco @ Wed Sep 21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dcoscina @ Wed Sep 21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> markblasco @ Wed Sep 21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man, I wish this had been done before I purchased Hollywood Brass :( Anyone want to trade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmm, if only this was fully legit I would actually be interested in taking you up on your offer :D! I love Cinebrasses sound more then HWB, but I do find myself often feeling a bit let down by lack of articulations. As I have enough RAM to deal with PLAY and have had no issues with it to date, seems like a perfect fit lol. Well I guess we'll see what CineBrass Pro brings in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Mike and Mike...

I fully expect the following ensemble to be the first addition to Cinebrass Pro... don't let me down... :twisted: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6qy8RVo ... re=related


_I demand my Alpenhorn ensemble!!!_

:lol: 
:lol: 
:lol:


----------



## noiseboyuk

Oh come on, sod quality control, just push it out the damn door!!!!

(please ignore my own impatient ranting and save me from myself)


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

We all relate, man, believe me!


----------



## mikebarry

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

Soon guys. Watermarking. An unfortunate necessary step.


----------



## noiseboyuk

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*



mikebarry @ Thu Sep 22 said:


> Soon guys. Watermarking. An unfortunate necessary step.



Darn it. Can't argue with that.


----------



## IFM

Exciting news...I've been holding off setting up a new template as I wait for the update.


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*



mikebarry @ Fri Sep 23 said:


> Soon guys. Watermarking. An unfortunate necessary step.



You brassholes.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Anyone else doing this? I have a cue (not for a deadline, obviously) where I've programmed a line in which doesn't really work well at the moment cos its too fast and needs more attack in places, but I think WILL work really well in 1.1.

I bet people are stacking up stuff and the moment 1.1 is out will go back and redo...


----------



## Pochflyboy

No I don't ever do that because problems can arise and then you get in a pickle to hit deadlines. For example this was "expected" to be seen mid this week. Had I waited on this project cause I wrote lines that needed it... it would have been real bad! HAHA However, I am super xcited for the the new legato... I am wrapping up stuff so I have time just to play with it and get to know it.


----------



## caseyjames

*Re: CineBrass (v1.1 Update video posted! Coming next week)*

my deadlline is definitely next friday... 

I'm playing lines nice and fast.. Come on 7's.

If its not out ill probably just slow the temp and time stretch the stems for those parts.


----------



## Cinesamples

CineBrass v1.1 update now available!

http://cinesamples.com/cinebrass_wm/

Best, 
Cinesamples Team


----------



## devastat

It's a vast improvement, Thank you! =o


----------



## Ztarr

How long does it take for emails to go out?


----------



## Udo

Ztarr @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> How long does it take for emails to go out?


You can download now. Just login with your serial # - see link in earlier post.


----------



## Ztarr

Udo @ Fri Sep 23 said:


> Ztarr @ Sat Sep 24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long does it take for emails to go out?
> 
> 
> 
> You can download now. Just login with your serial # - see link in earlier post.
Click to expand...

I've done that and it says an email will be sent but ive gotten nothing so far.


----------



## windshore

been waiting here also for a couple of hours maybe?
I am assuming they are still getting the system online...


----------



## vrocko

Thats weird. when I input my serial # it was instantaneous. Cinesamples sent it to the email that they have on file for me.


----------



## smoothielova

Great update! Thank you guys at Cinesamples!


----------



## JPRmusic

The "Get Update" button wasn't working for me in IE and seemed to do nothing when I clicked. So, I tried Chrome and it worked fine. When inputing your code, it should say success and list your email.


----------



## Cinesamples

If you do not receive an email immediately, please send your serial to [email protected] and we will manually send a link.

Growing pains, our apologies.


----------



## Cinesamples

Hi all,
Everything should be fixed now. Try again, the link will show up on the page AND email to you. So you should definitely get it.
Thanks, 
MP


----------



## marcotronic

Hi,

I´ve just updated according to the update document (Kontakt/Logic was closed) and loaded some patches (it says 1.1 actually) - but all I get is a totally screwed up mess!!! I´ve tried every single patch but the first ones only give some sounds when I play at a high velocity and then I don´t get anything correct but just weird sorts of intervals playing (some notes just play a short sound without interval), some other patches don´t play any sound at all. I´ve played a bit with several controllers cc1,2 etc... but it doesn´t change anything.

Extremely weird stuff! I´m using the latest Kontakt 4 in the latest update of Logic 9 on a Mac.

Anybody else experiencing these weird things?

Thanks
Marco


----------



## dcoscina

I'm getting script error messages in the info bar in Kontakt as well. Oddly enough, when I unpack or unzip the new files, most of them come out as a Unix Executable File rather than the document format. I wonder if that's the problem. Thing is, I've tried re-downloading and trying different unzip programs and each on gives me these Unix format files...what the??? 

Anyhow, I know it's going to get fixed. Does any Mac owner have a solution to this?


----------



## dedersen

I have the same problem. Script warnings in the bottom status bar of Kontakt, and everything is a mess, as described by Marco. Does the new version require Kontakt 5?

Ugh, I was really looking forward to playing around with this in the weekend. Fresh cup of coffee from the new espresso maker and all.


----------



## marcotronic

dedersen @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> Does the new version require Kontakt 5?



I hope NOT! I don´t feel like updating my stuff at the moment (and don´t have any budget for Kontakt 5)

Thanks
Marco


----------



## Cinesamples

Just fixed something. Try your links again.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Installed fine onto Kontakt 4.2.4 (PC), also getting script error messages (but I noticed yesterday I was getting these with 1.0). I'm not getting the mess that Marco is with missing samples, but I must admit the legato doesn't sound right to me at all. Now this example is pretty stark to illustrate what I'm getting... it could be me error or a problem with the update I'm not sure:

http://www.box.net/shared/nn3qqda6klpv5vdoelin

This is just a C scale slow up and fast down on ff French horn legato.


----------



## Cinesamples

FYI, you just need 4.2.3. Same as v1.0


----------



## dedersen

CineSamples @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> Just fixed something. Try your links again.



I'm still getting the same problems. I get a script error "pgs_get_ket_value(): error in parameters". And it seems like this is somehow messing up the entire patch, it's playing nothing at all on low velocities and odd legato transitions on high velocities.


----------



## Cinesamples

Hi guy, how does the solo horn, solo trumpet, trumpet ensemble legatos sound?


----------



## gregjazz

dedersen @ Fri Sep 23 said:


> I have the same problem. Script warnings in the bottom status bar of Kontakt, and everything is a mess, as described by Marco. Does the new version require Kontakt 5?



It's compatible with Kontakt 4.2.3+, so it doesn't require Kontakt 5. The script errors could be because either it's using the 1.0 patches, or it's using the NKR resource file from 1.0. You shouldn't be getting any script errors whatsoever, so you might double-check the update installation to make sure that you're loading the new patches as well as the new NKR file. The NKR resource file is what contains the image files as well as the scripts.


----------



## dedersen

I have the same issues with those patches as well.


----------



## marcotronic

Hi,

tried the new download - same weird stuff. No Kontakt error messages here, just a weird sounding mess. Gonna post some audio or video file...

(By the way, I have had Logic and Kontakt closed before the update(s))

Marco


----------



## Cinesamples

Hi all, I know you all have done this but worth stating anyway.
It is critical you follow the installation instructions:
http://assets.cinesamples.com/installat ... lation.pdf

and the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXJJm317uUA


----------



## noiseboyuk

CineSamples @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> Hi guy, how does the solo horn, solo trumpet, trumpet ensemble legatos sound?



Just checked, and they all sound good and normal to me. Sods law the first thing I try is the one with the issue!

EDIT - just to say I was a good boy and followed the installation instructions.


----------



## gregjazz

dedersen @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> CineSamples @ Sat Sep 24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just fixed something. Try your links again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still getting the same problems. I get a script error "pgs_get_ket_value(): error in parameters". And it seems like this is somehow messing up the entire patch, it's playing nothing at all on low velocities and odd legato transitions on high velocities.
Click to expand...

I know there's a bug in Kontakt related to the pgs_get_key_value thing, which has to do with Kontakt not updating new PGS variables correctly. Restart Kontakt to make sure you're starting fresh.


----------



## dedersen

Another, less critical issue: after inputting the serial on the update page, it says that a link to the download file has been sent to my email, and also provides a direct link to the update. The link works, of course, but actually I haven't received an email with the link.


----------



## gregjazz

dedersen @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> The link works, of course, but actually I haven't received an email with the link.


You might check your spam filter, just in case it got accidentally sent there. I'm not sure how their mail servers are set up, but sometimes the outbound emails are throttled, so it can take a little bit until the email is sent from the queue.


----------



## dedersen

CineSamples @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> Hi all, I know you all have done this but worth stating anyway.
> It is critical you follow the installation instructions:
> http://assets.cinesamples.com/installat ... lation.pdf
> 
> and the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXJJm317uUA



I followed it the first time, and I just tried doing a complete restart. I reverted to 1.0, confirmed that it worked properly in Kontakt, and then followed the update instruction video to make absolutely sure I did everything correct. Reloaded Kontakt, and loaded a patch. It says that it's version 1.1 when pressing the arrow next to the Full Mix fader, but I get the same issues still. This was all done in standalone Kontakt.

EDIT: Mikes, I hope you don't take issues with us using this as a support forum. It seems more efficient that sending in support tickets individually with no way of knowing what other users are experiencing. Seems like VI has become your official forum anyway. :D


----------



## noiseboyuk

Guys I just noticed something that might be a diagnostic clue. On my setup I have preload buffers set globally at 12k. The old horns legato patch used 45mb sample memory for the full mix mic. The new one is only using just under 22mb - around half. Looks like something isn't loading / referencing right.

I know it's late USA time and you guys will sort it, just passing on the info!

EDIT - AB/ing it sounds like either the release triggers aren't there at all or the legato samples aren't loaded or maybe both.


----------



## gregjazz

noiseboyuk @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> Guys I just noticed something that might be a diagnostic clue. On my setup I have preload buffers set globally at 12k. The old horns legato patch used 45mb sample memory for the full mix mic. The new one is only using just under 22mb - around half. Looks like something isn't loading / referencing right.[/url]


22mb or so at 12k preload buffers is actually correct, I just tested it. We optimized the memory usage in the patches, so the values will be different than the previous version.

In any case, it sounds like something's not loading correctly. I just tested these updated patches in both Kontakt 4.2.3 and Kontakt 4.2.4 as well as the Kontakt Player, and I'm not getting any script errors, missing samples, etc. We'll be working hard to figure this out as soon as possible!


----------



## noiseboyuk

gregjazz @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> noiseboyuk @ Sat Sep 24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys I just noticed something that might be a diagnostic clue. On my setup I have preload buffers set globally at 12k. The old horns legato patch used 45mb sample memory for the full mix mic. The new one is only using just under 22mb - around half. Looks like something isn't loading / referencing right.[/url]
> 22mb or so at 12k preload buffers is actually correct, I just tested it. We optimized the memory usage in the patches, so the values will be different than the previous version.
> 
> In any case, it sounds like something's not loading correctly. I just tested these updated patches in both Kontakt 4.2.3 and Kontakt 4.2.4 as well as the Kontakt Player, and I'm not getting any script errors, missing samples, etc. We'll be working hard to figure this out as soon as possible!
Click to expand...


Thanks Greg, you're a legend. Let me know if there's any more info you need this end.


----------



## Apina

I downloaded the update and the instruments seem to sound great so far. However I get the damn "missing samples" dialog and I have to manually find the path for the samples every time I start a new session. Of course I followed the instructions carefully. Any solutions?


----------



## noiseboyuk

Apina @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> I downloaded the update and the instruments seem to sound great so far. However I get the damn "missing samples" dialog and I have to manually find the path for the samples every time I start a new session. Of course I followed the instructions carefully. Any solutions?



Not sure why you're getting it, but the workround is just to save each instrument once you've found the right path - then the dialog never comes back.


----------



## Vision

Working fine here. Kontakt 4.2.3.4914. 2008 Mac Pro 8core, 3.2Ghz. Logic 9.1.5 64bit mode. 

Patti sent me my link at 12:41 AM est USA. 

Quick observations so far..

I really like that the attacks are set up to be more playable out of the box. I'll have to do another quick CB template, because I tweaked the attack parameters to my liking in ver 1.0, but not a big deal. The legato sustain with articulations patches are just great and a very nice time saver. I love it. 

Only negative I have so far.. the legato Horn ensemble patch needs to be more fluid when making legato transitions at ff and fff. It's still not quite there imo. But overall the legato speed is way better than 1.0, and it is usable.

Overall.. Great stuff. This is a seriously, seriously good update. I'm really looking forward to CB PRO.

Nice job guys.


----------



## marcotronic

Hi again,

I´ve just uploaded a little video showing what´s going on on my system after the 1.1 update. I´ve did exactly everything the update doc told me, closed Logic/Kontakt before. Same weird thing in standalone Kontakt. I´m using Kontakt version 4.2.3 - gonna update to 4.2.4 soon. Let´s see if that changes anything.

Here´s the video: http://www.marcotronic.com/forums/CB11.mov
(approx. 10 MB)

To those who successfully updated: Are you on Windows or Mac?

Thanks for help
Marco


----------



## Cinesamples

Guy, check your email.


----------



## Cinesamples

Folks, here's the issue: for a 25 minute window, from 11pm PST to around 11:25pst we had put an updated file on the server. This was corrupted. We took it down.

If you downloaded in these 25 minutes, you had issue. Email us at [email protected] and we will get you the NKR file that you need.

Boy, this wasn't a very smooth release was it?
Michael Patti


----------



## dedersen

marcotronic @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> I´ve just uploaded a little video showing what´s going on on my system after the 1.1 update. I´ve did exactly everything the update doc told me, closed Logic/Kontakt before. Same weird thing in standalone Kontakt. I´m using Kontakt version 4.2.3 - gonna update to 4.2.4 soon. Let´s see if that changes anything.



This is exactly the kind of behaviour I am seeing on my system. I tried updating Kontakt to 4.2.4, that did not change anything.


----------



## Cinesamples

Okay, going to bed now. 1:08am here, and I have the kids myself this weekend....


----------



## Cinesamples

dersen and others, email me!  I have a file for you.


----------



## marcotronic

Awesome, Mike!
You have mail 

Marco


----------



## dedersen

CineSamples @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> dersen and others, email me!  I have a file for you.



Mike (whichever one of you), just wanna say how much I appreciate this EXTREMELY quick and good support service you are running here. Just absolutely stellar. I'll check to see whether the fix worked. Now go to bed.


----------



## dcoscina

I'm all good now too. Thanks Mike! Talk about fast customer service! Thumbs way up!!


----------



## Cinesamples

Cheers guys. This totally sucked. Sorry for the mixup.

Mike Patti


----------



## dedersen

CineSamples @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> Cheers guys. This totally sucked. Sorry for the mixup.
> 
> Mike Patti



No worries. All is good now. In the end, this really just stands as another testament to your absolutely top-notch customer service. o-[][]-o


----------



## noiseboyuk

dcoscina @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> I'm all good now too. Thanks Mike! Talk about fast customer service! Thumbs way up!!



...and this is why we love Cinesamples!

The horns legato still isn't right in this version even with the update, sadly. Mike just emailed to say (as he crashed from over-tiredness!) that the horns legato might be better from the previous version, but Pro would fix that. 1.1 is still showing only half the RAM size of 1.0, mind - lovely in theory, but I think it is showing something still isn't quite right here. If there's further tweeks to be done, I know the guys will be on it in due course.

I'll need to spend some time with the update to be sure. I think some of the gorgeous openness has been sacrificed a little, the horns ensemble is by far the most extreme example, but I suspect for medium / slower patches the originals might sound nicer. I love the layered shorts on sustain at high velocities, that sounds terrific, and the fast repetitions are great too.


----------



## marcotronic

Yeah, same here! After the NKR update everything working like a charm now here, too!

Thanks a lot, Mike for the quick help! Awesome customer support!

Enjoy your night 

Marco


----------



## Vision

No one's perfect.


----------



## dedersen

noiseboyuk @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> I love the layered shorts on sustain at high velocities, that sounds terrific.



These absolutely blew me away. Especially with the trumpets, this just sounds amazing, and way better than I have ever heard this sort of articulation layering sound before.

DISCLAIMER: This was posted roughly 10-15 minutes after I got the update working, so I am still suffering from just being all giddy that it's running!


----------



## audiot

No script errors here (K4), but got some missing files messages (solved by search file system) --- no other issues so far, but hadn't the time to test it thoroughly!
Thanks for the update and the quick support!


----------



## Stephen Baysted

All fine and dandy here - thanks for the update Mikes.


----------



## Ryan Scully

Great updated guys - much thanks!


The double and triple tonguing additions are fantastic!!




Ryan o-[][]-o


----------



## Craig Sharmat

As stated by others update is very nice and great you guys stepped up to the plate and did what was necessary. Horns are much better but not perfect but certainly usable now, everything else a real nice improvement. Thanks for getting it done!


----------



## Cinesamples

Thanks Craig.
Hey guys, Greg and I are just finishing up the 12 horns ensemble patch for CineBrass PRO.
We're so giddy over here. The trick is that we made sure to grab transitions at that extreme fff level. With CineBrass 1, we had the sustains at fff, and the transitions we had up to ff (not brassy enough).
One of the things we learned from the first one.

Man, the 12 horn players were beat after doing just the transitions for over 3 hours...

Anyway, this is a PRO related topic, we'll start another thread just for that. We have a nice behind the scenes video to show as well...


----------



## Vision

CineSamples @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> With CineBrass 1, we had the sustains at fff, and the transitions we had up to ff (not brassy enough).
> One of the things we learned from the first one.



Cool. It would be really nice if you guys addressed this in an update. This would really go a long way to making CineBrass 1 feel more complete in my opinion. I feel the pain more being a former French Horn player.

Btw, while 12 man horns sound intriguing (I really want to hear this), what will the smaller sections be? 2,4,6?


----------



## noiseboyuk

CineSamples @ Sun Sep 25 said:


> Thanks Craig.
> Hey guys, Greg and I are just finishing up the 12 horns ensemble patch for CineBrass PRO.
> We're so giddy over here. The trick is that we made sure to grab transitions at that extreme fff level. With CineBrass 1, we had the sustains at fff, and the transitions we had up to ff (not brassy enough).
> One of the things we learned from the first one.
> 
> Man, the 12 horn players were beat after doing just the transitions for over 3 hours...
> 
> Anyway, this is a PRO related topic, we'll start another thread just for that. We have a nice behind the scenes video to show as well...



Sounds good!

I'm still wondering if my own horns ensemble patch is playing right though, would be grateful if someone could confirm. The two things that make me suspicious are:

1 - RAM use of Horns Ensemble True Legato is half the previous 1.0 patch (suggesting some files aren't referenced that should be) and

2 - The transitions sound like basic retriggers from the start of each sustain note, cutting the previous release trail completely. (demo ff horns C scale here - http://www.box.net/shared/nn3qqda6klpv5vdoelin )

I know you guys aren't 100% happy with the 1.1 legato horns, but I'm still trying to figure out if I have an additional problem - cheers.


----------



## Vision

No it's not just you. This is what I was talking about in my initial impressions rundown. (I assume) Craig was talking about the same thing. The ff and fff transitions aren't there. 

However, as Mike just stated in the post above they are aware of this.. and those transitions will be in CB Pro.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Vision @ Sun Sep 25 said:


> No it's not just you. This is what I was talking about in my initial impressions rundown. (I assume) Craig was talking about the same thing. The ff and fff transitions aren't there.
> 
> However, as Mike just stated in the post above they are aware of this.. and those transitions will be in CB Pro.



Oh good to know I don't have a rogue version. The size thing still bothers me though, and I always thought the legato was very effective at slower speeds in 1.0. I'll probably stick with the original patch for now unless Gregg is able to weave some more magic on it - cheers.


----------



## Cinesamples

Guy, as far as the RAM thing, Greg answered this question for you already:

"22mb or so at 12k preload buffers is actually correct, I just tested it. We optimized the memory usage in the patches, so the values will be different than the previous version."

Thanks y'all...


----------



## noiseboyuk

CineSamples @ Sun Sep 25 said:


> Guy, as far as the RAM thing, Greg answered this question for you already:
> 
> "22mb or so at 12k preload buffers is actually correct, I just tested it. We optimized the memory usage in the patches, so the values will be different than the previous version."
> 
> Thanks y'all...



Oh, completely missed that! Cool and good news - thanks.


----------



## dedersen

Re the fff transitions, are you planning on including stuff like this in the PRO update? New, improved versions of the existing patches? Or will it be all new instruments? I would really love to see PRO address some of the minor shortcomings of the current cinebrass instruments. Besides the fff transitions, I am also really longing for additional layers in the softer ranges of the instruments. Both legato and short articulations.


----------



## smoothielova

How do you access the older Horn Legato patch now? I kind of like the newer legato patch for faster passages and would like to use the older one for slower passages.


----------



## noiseboyuk

smoothielova @ Sun Sep 25 said:


> How do you access the older Horn Legato patch now? I kind of like the newer legato patch for faster passages and would like to use the older one for slower passages.



If you followed the install instructions, the original patches will be in a folder called "backup". Either by the file navigator or using Quick Load, you can load from there. You'll need to batch resave the samples cos the relative path will have changed, but that's a once-only job.


----------



## smoothielova

noiseboyuk @ Sun Sep 25 said:


> smoothielova @ Sun Sep 25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you access the older Horn Legato patch now? I kind of like the newer legato patch for faster passages and would like to use the older one for slower passages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you followed the install instructions, the original patches will be in a folder called "backup". Either by the file navigator or using Quick Load, you can load from there. You'll need to batch resave the samples cos the relative path will have changed, but that's a once-only job.
Click to expand...


Mmmm I see thank you. How do you batch resave samples in Kontakt?


----------



## noiseboyuk

smoothielova @ Sun Sep 25 said:


> Mmmm I see thank you. How do you batch resave samples in Kontakt?



Go to Files / Batch re-save. Find the backup folder with the instrument nkis, then OK. When it asks where the samples are, browse to the samples folder, OK and job done. (If you're nervous, just copy the backup folder to somewhere else first as a 2nd backup!)


----------



## smoothielova

noiseboyuk @ Sun Sep 25 said:


> smoothielova @ Sun Sep 25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mmmm I see thank you. How do you batch resave samples in Kontakt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go to Files / Batch re-save. Find the backup folder with the instrument nkis, then OK. When it asks where the samples are, browse to the samples folder, OK and job done. (If you're nervous, just copy the backup folder to somewhere else first as a 2nd backup!)
Click to expand...


THANK YOU! Works like a charm!


----------



## Cinesamples

dedersen @ Sat Sep 24 said:


> Re the fff transitions, are you planning on including stuff like this in the PRO update? New, improved versions of the existing patches? Or will it be all new instruments? I would really love to see PRO address some of the minor shortcomings of the current cinebrass instruments. Besides the fff transitions, I am also really longing for additional layers in the softer ranges of the instruments. Both legato and short articulations.



There will be special patches for those that own both CineBrass and CineBrass PRO.

We recorded some additional material to just improve upon CineBrass 1, but because of the special nature of this library (union accounting etc) we have to include it with PRO and then offer special bonus patches to that that have both.

Make sense?

We'll detail all this later...


----------



## artinro

Guys,

This all sounds great! How far along is Pro, by the way? Is there still a bunch of work to be done, or is it getting fairly close.

And let me just add to what others have said above: Thank you for taking the time to put out such a deep update to cinebrass 1. It is very much appreciated.

Cheers!


----------



## Justus

Thank you, Mike & Mike!
This update totally rocks!
Hassle free installation, great improvements.

If someone could tell how to control the dynamics via CC11 without controlling the overall volume I would be sooo happy!

Cheers,
Justus


----------



## mducharme

Installed the update - my first thoughts are the Trumpet ensemble legato is really nice and fast now at responding and so it is very usable in fast passages - big improvement there.

The Horns ensemble is doing some weird things though:

- There is also a huge decrease of dynamic level when there is a fast passage in the horns - if you play a slow passage with the modwheel all the way up vs a fast passage, the dynamic decreases for the fast notes down from the expected ff to mezzo piano (this can be somewhat worked around by using the layered staccatos, but it would still be nice if the legato patch handled this better). With slower passages, it sounds like there is now some filter kicking in and decreasing the volume of the previous note in legato transitions, creating a somewhat strange effect for broad slow legato passages.

- Some of the tuning/intonation problems are still there, the high D wavering in pitch (painfully so, to my ears) and the notes just above middle C still have their loop settings problem resulting in that double attack on those two notes (and the weird artifacting on the other two).


----------



## Simon Ravn

Thanks for the update guys - definitely a big improvement!

However, one weird thing. I noticed that the volume on the new patches is MUCH MUCH lower than the old ones?? The "full mix" is about the same volume, but as soon as I mix the different mics myself the volume is maybe 6-12 db lower than before. Anyone else getting this?

And in my opinion, the dynamic difference between p and ff is not big enough. I think the lowest layers should have a much lower volume than they have currently - you have to rely on a lot of expression control to control the lower dynamics, instead of using the modwheel for most of the dynamic/timbre changes. I don't think that has changed in this version, that is just a general observation.


----------



## sevaels

+1 to what Mducharme & Ravn said.

All in all great job guys :D


----------



## sbkp

I'm confused. I did request my update in the goof window the other night. But I just redownloaded it, and I get the gakked patches. Do I need to request the download again (like... my watermarked version is messed up because of when it was created)?

Also... Couldn't we please start new threads for Cinebrass? Getting through this thread to find the right starting point for new topics (like the 1.1 update) really sucks.


----------



## sbkp

"Eagle Eye" Mike P helped me via PM.

I still vote for new threads once in a while for CineBrass


----------



## Pochflyboy

http://youtu.be/3wsNZ0iku_Q


----------



## noiseboyuk

Pochflyboy @ Mon Sep 26 said:


> http://youtu.be/3wsNZ0iku_Q



Nervous about clicking this, the address looks strange. What is it?


----------



## gregjazz

Don't worry, that's just the standard way Youtube shortens its links when sharing them.


----------



## dedersen

CineSamples @ Sun Sep 25 said:


> dedersen @ Sat Sep 24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Re the fff transitions, are you planning on including stuff like this in the PRO update? New, improved versions of the existing patches? Or will it be all new instruments? I would really love to see PRO address some of the minor shortcomings of the current cinebrass instruments. Besides the fff transitions, I am also really longing for additional layers in the softer ranges of the instruments. Both legato and short articulations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There will be special patches for those that own both CineBrass and CineBrass PRO.
> 
> We recorded some additional material to just improve upon CineBrass 1, but because of the special nature of this library (union accounting etc) we have to include it with PRO and then offer special bonus patches to that that have both.
Click to expand...


Excellent, just the sort of answer I was hoping for! I'm anxious to hear more details about what exactly to expect in the PRO version. I'm sure you'll deliver the goods once more.


----------



## noiseboyuk

gregjazz @ Mon Sep 26 said:


> Don't worry, that's just the standard way Youtube shortens its links when sharing them.



Ah, thanks - had already seen elsewhere actually, but all exciting stuff!


----------



## caseyjames

Can someone tell me about the dynamic curve for cinebrass?

I noticed that there are no settings for the curve so I am trying to adjust other libraries to match Cinebrass..

I've matched levels and tried a few things, I'm getting close but It's be very helpful to know if there were any peculiarities about the curve


----------



## synthetic

Just another rave review for Cinebrass. Got this feedback from a director I've been working with for years. He's a composer himself.



> I really like the brass. To me brass sounds have improved more than anything else since the beginning of sampling. Brass used to sound TERRIBLE and now a dead wringer.


----------



## IFM

I didn't want to start an entire new thread on this but for those who have built templates with Logic & CB (I just got it and finally am putting into the setup) how are you running it? I had gotten so used to Play and the long load times that I of course set up everything with VEP. Now, however, getting back to K4 and with CB it loads so fast that I am not sure I should bother with a VEP template and rather just load the patches directly into Logic.

On a side note the 1.1 update is great! I noticed that the Legato on the ART patches is not the same as the True Leg and sounds more like the original version...am I mistaken?

Chris


----------



## gregjazz

Dragonwind @ Tue Oct 11 said:


> On a side note the 1.1 update is great! I noticed that the Legato on the ART patches is not the same as the True Leg and sounds more like the original version...am I mistaken?


The legato in the articulations patches and corresponding true legato patches should be identical.


----------



## mpalenik

Does anyone else find the articulations patch a bit buggy? The double and triple tounging keys don't do anything at all a lot of the time and the pedal down on the articulations patch doesn't always behave quite right.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Chris - yeah, Kontakt is now so fast, I've been going through the exact same thing. I think VE Pro might well be totally unnecessary now on a single system.

mpalenik - I haven't found that myself on the tounging, but I've been using the keyswitches as I don't generally get on with pedals. What I do find is that timing can be tricksy when switching between double tounging then regular short artics, I usually have to spend a bit of time juggling the midi around to make it sound right.

On a general point, I'm still really hoping that PRO improves the legato - I know the horns is a pretty extreme case, but I'm not crazy about the revision in general. One of the big selling points of CineBrass is that gorgeous Sony-space, and I can hear it being unnaturally chopped off. Greg, do you think there might be further refinements on that script, or maybe even a control where we can determine how aggressive the damping behaviour is? I'm working with the 1.0 legato patches mostly right now because I strongly dislike this effect.


----------



## IFM

gregjazz @ Tue Oct 11 said:


> Dragonwind @ Tue Oct 11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> On a side note the 1.1 update is great! I noticed that the Legato on the ART patches is not the same as the True Leg and sounds more like the original version...am I mistaken?
> 
> 
> 
> The legato in the articulations patches and corresponding true legato patches should be identical.
Click to expand...


Hmm I am still hearing the overlap that isn't present in the stand alone legato patch.
Chris


----------



## mpalenik

noiseboyuk @ Wed Oct 12 said:


> On a general point, I'm still really hoping that PRO improves the legato - I know the horns is a pretty extreme case, but I'm not crazy about the revision in general. One of the big selling points of CineBrass is that gorgeous Sony-space, and I can hear it being unnaturally chopped off.



I know what you mean. In general, I'm very happy with the update and it's definitely a lot easier to make fast lines work, but I had put together something a little while ago that used the old legato patches. I had these big, powerful, slow french horn lines that sounded amazing. I might not have written it quite like that had the legato worked better for faster lines, but as written, the horns sounded pretty impressive. Using the new horn patches, it seems like it just lost a little bit of something. Fortunately, I saved the old multi, though, with the old patches.


----------



## gregjazz

Dragonwind @ Wed Oct 12 said:


> Hmm I am still hearing the overlap that isn't present in the stand alone legato patch.
> Chris


I just compared the articulation patches to their true legato counterparts (both the trumpet ensemble and the french horn ensemble), and I can't find a difference other than that the articulation patches have the shorts layered with the sustains when you play them loudly. Is there a specific patch with a difference, and is it with a particular interval/dynamic or something?


----------



## IFM

gregjazz @ Sat Oct 15 said:


> Dragonwind @ Wed Oct 12 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm I am still hearing the overlap that isn't present in the stand alone legato patch.
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> I just compared the articulation patches to their true legato counterparts (both the trumpet ensemble and the french horn ensemble), and I can't find a difference other than that the articulation patches have the shorts layered with the sustains when you play them loudly. Is there a specific patch with a difference, and is it with a particular interval/dynamic or something?
Click to expand...


Play fast. What I found it was it that the True Legato is set for MONOPHONIC and the Art patch is set for POLYPHONIC. If you set the True Leg patch to POLY it is the same. I guess then the last request is if we can have control over mono/poly legato on the articulation patch.

Chris


----------



## IFM

noiseboyuk @ Wed Oct 12 said:


> Chris - yeah, Kontakt is now so fast, I've been going through the exact same thing. I think VE Pro might well be totally unnecessary now on a single system.



I'm on Logic and I can't see any point in running it in VEP. I set up each patch I wanted as a Channel Preset and all I have to do click on the pull down menu (this is assuming I didn't start with a template). I'm only using VEP for HS and left over 32bit plugins now.


----------



## mpalenik

Dragonwind @ Sun Oct 16 said:


> I guess then the last request is if we can have control over mono/poly legato on the articulation patch.
> 
> Chris



You already do. Just click on the custom map button.


----------



## noiseboyuk

This is slightly OT but I've started too many threads lately that get no input and I'm getting an inferiority complex! Guys, you tweeted yesterday that there'd been a big success in the piracy fight, anything you can share more fully? Kinda hoping that the watermarking thing has resulted in a successful prosecution.


----------



## MichaelJM

noiseboyuk @ Tue Oct 11 said:


> On a general point, I'm still really hoping that PRO improves the legato - I know the horns is a pretty extreme case, but I'm not crazy about the revision in general. One of the big selling points of CineBrass is that gorgeous Sony-space, and I can hear it being unnaturally chopped off. Greg, do you think there might be further refinements on that script, or maybe even a control where we can determine how aggressive the damping behaviour is? I'm working with the 1.0 legato patches mostly right now because I strongly dislike this effect.



This legato update was my biggest concern when I read the list of changes for 1.1. I thought I was hearing an unnatural drop off too, but wasn't sure if it was just me, or if I was just hearing things. I did notice it was easier to do faster legato lines. The reason I love this library though is the sound of the sound of the space so I could just be overly sensitive to potentially losing that. I have yet to do a side by side comparison but I'll have to try that, just to see what the difference is.


----------



## Dirk Ehlert

Although I've just created a ticket at CS I'm curious to know if anyone else has the same behaviour after the update...

In the Trombone Art patch at note F#1 with sutain pedal pressed, modwheel all way up hitting the brass hard (will say ff articulation) I get a every second note cut off.

Can anyone else reproduce this on his/her version?

Thanks

Dirk


----------



## gregjazz

de_signs @ Sat Oct 22 said:


> In the Trombone Art patch at note F#1 with sutain pedal pressed, modwheel all way up hitting the brass hard (will say ff articulation) I get a every second note cut off.
> 
> Can anyone else reproduce this on his/her version?


Open Kontakt's left side window (the browser one), and go to the "Monitor" tab, and then the "Engine" sub-tab. What does your DFD Voice Memory display? Normally it will display the amount of MB used, but I noticed that when that glitch occurs and the note gets cut off, it displays "--- DFD Error ---". It seems like there's a glitch with the DFD that causes the notes to get cut off. Try slightly increasing your DFD preload size to see if that fixes the problem.


----------



## Justus

Does anyone else have volume jump issues in the trumpet solo patch (modwheel down)?


----------



## Blackster

Justus @ Sun Oct 23 said:


> Does anyone else have volume jump issues in the trumpet solo patch (modwheel down)?



Yes, unfortunately me, too :( ...


----------



## Dirk Ehlert

Thanks Greg,

that buffer size fixed it


----------



## noiseboyuk

Hi there Mikes. I've been using CineBrass Core a lot lately. Still adore the tone, still struggling with a few things. I've emailed Greg with regard to a specific Trombones articulation issue where the sustain drops off on playback , but I was wondering generally what the road map for core is at this point? I remember you mentioning a 1.2 update some time ago, could you fill us in on what this might contain?

I'm still after better legatos - I guess that's my main issue with Core. Slow lines are great in 1.0, trumpets sound quite good on faster lines in 1.1, but I do still hear the truncated notes. I'm still not getting on with the 1.1 horn legatos at all, I'm afraid.

There's another thread in Sample Talk about increasing the dynamic range too, and someone came up with an excellent suggestion of having a dynamics control, so we'd have the option to keep it as is (quite a restricted volume range), or expand to a more natural range for the instrument. Do you guys think that might be a future possibility?

I'm still planning to get Pro, but if some more wrinkles are ironed out in Core 1.2, it'd probably speed my decision-making!

All the best to you good folks.


----------



## noiseboyuk

noiseboyuk @ Thu Dec 08 said:


> Hi there Mikes. I've been using CineBrass Core a lot lately. Still adore the tone, still struggling with a few things. I've emailed Greg with regard to a specific Trombones articulation issue where the sustain drops off on playback , but I was wondering generally what the road map for core is at this point? I remember you mentioning a 1.2 update some time ago, could you fill us in on what this might contain?
> 
> I'm still after better legatos - I guess that's my main issue with Core. Slow lines are great in 1.0, trumpets sound quite good on faster lines in 1.1, but I do still hear the truncated notes. I'm still not getting on with the 1.1 horn legatos at all, I'm afraid.
> 
> There's another thread in Sample Talk about increasing the dynamic range too, and someone came up with an excellent suggestion of having a dynamics control, so we'd have the option to keep it as is (quite a restricted volume range), or expand to a more natural range for the instrument. Do you guys think that might be a future possibility?
> 
> I'm still planning to get Pro, but if some more wrinkles are ironed out in Core 1.2, it'd probably speed my decision-making!
> 
> All the best to you good folks.



Bump for this - thanks.


----------



## windshore

One of the Mike's said a while ago that the updated ensemble patches would be available soon. They are supposed to be hybrid of core and pro. Said they were just waiting to get them back from NI.

Haven't heard any news since.


----------



## mikebarry

I think you are over thinking it Guy. I am getting really realistic results with it mocking up hard film music. Use 1.0 if you are happy with it. I don't even know which version I am using, I am just using it. If you don't want pro - don't get it. Not sure what else to say.


----------



## noiseboyuk

mikebarry @ Sat Dec 10 said:


> I think you are over thinking it Guy. I am getting really realistic results with it mocking up hard film music. Use 1.0 if you are happy with it. I don't even know which version I am using, I am just using it. If you don't want pro - don't get it. Not sure what else to say.



Oh, my bad - I genuinely thought you'd mentioned stuff for 1.2 a while ago.

Well, perhaps the upcoming hybrid patches may solve my issues? Perhaps I'm best off waiting to see how those pan out? You guys know I totally support you and your approach, and just to be clear, for a lot of the parts I play CineBrass Core is absolutely stunning. But for some legato parts it doesn't work so well. I'm super-sensitive to hearing natural tails truncated; 1.0 is terrific on slower lines but can't be pushed and I think as you guys agreed the horns legato isn't really right. Maybe I'm alone in those observations, but we've all just got our ears to go on. If all those things are resolved in PRO - especially with the hybrid patches - then I'm totally there.

Meanwhile, Greg any news on that Trombones artics patch?


----------

