# Albion One or Abbey Road One



## Bman70 (Dec 24, 2020)

For cinematic / game / hybrid / TV / Yanni Zimmer type stuff. 
One thing I've heard gripes about is no legato in ARO, but it's not always critical to every piece. Also, in the time between the releases you'd think they have gained some skills in sounding good. 
Albion One is very wet isn't it? Is Abbey Road drier? 
Which has the best shorts? 
Which one is more 'bread and butter' for all my scoring needs? 

Mitigating factors: I own HWO Gold, Nucleus, and Komplete 12 Ultimate


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## topijokinen (Dec 25, 2020)

Albion One strings layers quite well with HWO Gold, and I use that all the time for epic/hybrid stuff. Im not a big fan of the Albion’s brass though, but I sometimes layer it with HWO. Not sure if it adds a whole lot to what you already have. HWO is drier than albion at least. Albion has nice shorts but again you already have HWO and Nucleus, so dont know if its any better. Dont know anything about ARO.

What I would do, since you have already 2 all around orchestral libraries, I would not bring in third but get some dedicated string, brass or percussion libraries depending what you are lacking most in your sound. I doubt that Albion or ARO will bring anything significantly new to the table, since the concept is almost the same as HWO or Nucleus.

What I see as a benefit for the albion vs HWO is that its easier to sketch with (and use alltogether) since it has orchestral ensembles vs individual sections (as ARO i believe) but on the other hand less flexibility. Albion has also some cinematic percs and synths, but I do prefer more dedicated libraries (eq. HZ perc would be viable option) / ”real synths” over those.


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## paularthur (Dec 25, 2020)

The wwind shorts in Albion One Orch are some of my faves but, imo, a lot of the extra stuff (steam, epic ish perc ens) is the under-represented value of Albion One.


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## Bman70 (Dec 25, 2020)

topijokinen said:


> Albion One strings layers quite well with HWO Gold, and I use that all the time for epic/hybrid stuff. Im not a big fan of the Albion’s brass though, but I sometimes layer it with HWO. Not sure if it adds a whole lot to what you already have. HWO is drier than albion at least. Albion has nice shorts but again you already have HWO and Nucleus, so dont know if its any better. Dont know anything about ARO.
> 
> What I would do, since you have already 2 all around orchestral libraries, I would not bring in third but get some dedicated string, brass or percussion libraries depending what you are lacking most in your sound. I doubt that Albion or ARO will bring anything significantly new to the table, since the concept is almost the same as HWO or Nucleus.
> 
> What I see as a benefit for the albion vs HWO is that its easier to sketch with (and use alltogether) since it has orchestral ensembles vs individual sections (as ARO i believe) but on the other hand less flexibility. Albion has also some cinematic percs and synths, but I do prefer more dedicated libraries (eq. HZ perc would be viable option) / ”real synths” over those.




Good points thanks. I already sketch with Nucleus so don't really need Albion for that. I have thought about the more dedicated library HZ Strings... It brings a different flavor and approach in strings. 

I'm not lacking percussion because of HWO and Damage 1 + 2. Spitfire Chamber Strings is another consideration, since I don't currently have a small ensemble. 

I suppose with libraries like Abbey Road and Albion, it's just "sound" I'm after. Even though it's another full orchestra, the sound sounds great Lol.


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## Justin L. Franks (Dec 25, 2020)

Abbey Road One does sound pretty phenomenal. The only real question to ask yourself is, "Do I want another ensemble/sketching library, or do I want to start supplementing my existing one with a more focused library?"

You can pretty much take any two of the same "type" of library (ensemble, chamber string sections, brass soloists, etc.) from any two respected developers, and there will be some parts of Library A that you prefer over Library B, and some parts of Library B that you prefer over Library A.

But when you start branching out, you get something entirely new to play with.

Spitfire's Chamber Strings is an incredible library. And it does have a very usable ensemble patch as well, so you can start with that while you learn how to orchestrate for the individual sections. Pretty much the only thing to consider before getting it is that it was recorded in a very reverberant space. AIR Lyndhurst has an awesome sound, but it also means that a library recorded there will be pretty wet, even when using the close mics. Some people prefer working with samples recorded in a drier space.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 25, 2020)

What do you feel you are lacking in with your current libraries? Are you feeling limited by articulations available? Is the sound not quite what you’re looking for? If so, what are some examples of the type of sound you are seeking?

While it’s fun to have everything so you never feel limited, that gets very pricey, very quickly.


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## bfreepro (Dec 25, 2020)

Depends what you need most - for the orchestral sound and realism, Abbey Road One. If you want something more versatile with synths and some stuff like that, get Albion. I have both. Abbey Road doesn't have any of the synths or sound design type patches, but it sounds significantly more realistic and has some individual sections for the brass and what not, where Albion One is all ensembles. Albion series is all VERY wet, and yes Abbey Road One is a lot drier in that aspect, but definitely not a dry library. Want some examples of both playing the same passages?


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## Bman70 (Dec 25, 2020)

bfreepro said:


> Depends what you need most - for the orchestral sound and realism, Abbey Road One. If you want something more versatile with synths and some stuff like that, get Albion. I have both. Abbey Road doesn't have any of the synths or sound design type patches, but it sounds significantly more realistic and has some individual sections for the brass and what not, where Albion One is all ensembles. Albion series is all VERY wet, and yes Abbey Road One is a lot drier in that aspect, but definitely not a dry library. Want some examples of both playing the same passages?



I have synths covered with Omnisphere, and it covers so much ground that I don't even want Olafur Arnalds or Textures stuff. Actually I'm looking for realism, plus great sound, leaning toward epic sound probably. OK large strings.  With tons of great fast and slow shorts plus legato.

But Abbey Road is a larger orchestra, up there with BSS in number I think. So how is it for thundering lows and epic soaring? If it does most of what HZ does I might as well have the other instruments. Same idea with Albion... I probably most want HZ Strings or BSS, but if a library does that stuff along with more instruments, why not.


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## bfreepro (Dec 25, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> I have synths covered with Omnisphere, and it covers so much ground that I don't even want Olafur Arnalds or Textures stuff. Actually I'm looking for realism, plus great sound, leaning toward epic sound probably. OK large strings.  With tons of great fast and slow shorts plus legato.
> 
> But Abbey Road is a larger orchestra, up there with BSS in number I think. So how is it for thundering lows and epic soaring? If it does most of what HZ does I might as well have the other instruments. Same idea with Albion... I probably most want HZ Strings or BSS, but if a library does that stuff along with more instruments, why not.


Abbey Road gets louder and more epic IMO, it's just got way more clarity and bite to it, especially the brass. Definitely got thundering lows and can do soaring strings, just doesn't have legato, but you can use Hollywood Strings and Nucleus for the real soaring string legato sections. Judging purely the orchestral content, Abbey Road One is miles ahead as far as sound and versatility IMO


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 25, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> OK large strings.  With tons of great fast and slow shorts plus legato.



You already have that....Hollywood Strings.


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## Bman70 (Dec 25, 2020)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> You already have that....Hollywood Strings.


 
The legato is great in HWS, yes, but I spent quite an effort trying to get them to sound massive, and there just wasn't that tone. It was like... large yet airy. Not the dense thickness of the other ones mentioned.


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## topijokinen (Dec 25, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> The legato is great in HWS, yes, but I spent quite an effort trying to get them to sound massive, and there just wasn't that tone. It was like... large yet airy. Not the dense thickness of the other ones mentioned.


Hmmm. Its definately possible to get the HWS to sound massive. I doubt that getting new library will solve that problem. The arrangement is the key and you can try some processing to alter the sound. For example I find that some parallel compression does wonders for the strings. Probably you already tried layering Nucleus and HWS? I guess that could result in quite a massive sound.


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## Bman70 (Dec 25, 2020)

topijokinen said:


> Hmmm. Its definately possible to get the HWS to sound massive. I doubt that getting new library will solve that problem. The arrangement is the key and you can try some processing to alter the sound. For example I find that some parallel compression does wonders for the strings. Probably you already tried layering Nucleus and HWS? I guess that could result in quite a massive sound.



It's possible that the Diamond mic positions can add something I don't have in the Gold version. I just tried parallel compression and stereo image widening and layering with Nucleus, but it just starts to sound like a patched up Hollywood Strings, not a more substantial sound. What would a massive arrangement be? Even in this guy's demo, the Hollywood examples have that middy squeezed scooped sound, like there's no real thickness like Berlin Strings, BSS, HZS, and maybe Abbey Road have. Consequently the very low registers try to carry more weight but it ends up imbalanced. p.s. he has Diamond mics.


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## RogiervG (Dec 26, 2020)

neither, wait for the modular orchestra in the abbey road line


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## Jotto (Dec 26, 2020)

If you want epic try OT Ark 1


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## ridgero (Dec 26, 2020)

Jotto said:


> If you want epic try OT Ark 1


Yes!

Ark 1 > ARO > Albion One

Strong foundation, Legatos, Excellent Brass & Choir


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## easyrider (Dec 26, 2020)

ridgero said:


> Yes!
> 
> Ark 1 > ARO > Albion One
> 
> Strong foundation, Legatos, Excellent Brass & Choir



Ark 1 is also 549 euro plus VAT....

Albion one at current sale pricing is a no brainier if you ask me...

I mean you could get Albion one and spitfire studio orchestra for the price of ARK 1

Studio strings is dry so it easy enough to blend with Albion one with the use of some reverb.....


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## AudioLoco (Dec 26, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Ark 1 is also 549 euro plus VAT....
> 
> Albion one at current sale pricing is a no brainier if you ask me...
> 
> ...


Yeah the ARKs are a bit crazy price wise.... worth it, but pricey pricey


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## Jotto (Dec 26, 2020)

Agree about the price. Why dont OT have sales like SF??? However you can buy individual instruments from ARK1. The low strings in Ark makes Albion blush.


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## antanasb (Dec 26, 2020)

I have Albion One and BBC Core. For less than 500€ that is one a hell of a deal at the moment...

Even though there are way better libraries available in any regard considered, the combination strikes a heavy punch and is no slouch when the mic positions in the Albion is used correctly (now I am mainly using Outriggers and Ambient mics with a hit of Close when needed — really sounds very good and quite close to Abbey) and then balanced with the abundance of articulations in the BBC.. I can hear the nice dynamic transitions between the dynamic layers in Abbey, but is that really the thing that is holding me back in the compositions? I really don’t think so...

With proper orchestration, arrangement and harmony chops I think Albion One and BBC Core is plenty to be busy for a looong time.. And I haven’t even scratched the surface yet with my limited experience and knowledge...

I agree on the Choirs of Ark 1 and 2... Sounds wonderful and can be acquired a-la-carte, if bundles are too pricey. (Be careful about VAT in OT shop — Ark 1 is around 700-800€ actually)

Though, if you are into the HW stuff, maybe consider Diamond edition? Extra mics is key... (I personally dislike many many things about HW stuff, and one mic perspective in Gold Composer Cloud does not redeem itself despite how good it sounds..)


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## Jotto (Dec 26, 2020)

Does anyone know why VAT is added when you buy from OT but not from Spitfire?


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## antanasb (Dec 26, 2020)

Jotto said:


> Does anyone know why VAT is added when you buy from OT but not from Spitfire?



It is added to both. The main difference — Spitfire displays prices including VAT (which is the usual in EU), while OT does not for some reason. Thus, you see it added only when you check out.


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## Justin L. Franks (Dec 26, 2020)

Jotto said:


> Agree about the price. Why dont OT have sales like SF??? However you can buy individual instruments from ARK1. The low strings in Ark makes Albion blush.



They had some sales this year.


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## ridgero (Dec 26, 2020)

antanasb said:


> I have Albion One and BBC Core. For less than 500€ that is one a hell of a deal at the moment...



I absolutely agree with you, a perfect deal.

I would purchase Ark I, when it's on sale.


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## Bman70 (Dec 26, 2020)

Jotto said:


> Agree about the price. Why dont OT have sales like SF??? However you can buy individual instruments from ARK1. The low strings in Ark makes Albion blush.



I've seen some good sales on the Arks.. we have OT itself and then Native Instruments who do sales on it. I do plan to get Ark 1 at some point, but as easyrider said, the Albion One sale is kind of a no brainer.


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## antanasb (Dec 26, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> I've seen some good sales on the Arks.. we have OT itself and then Native Instruments who do sales on it. I do plan to get Ark 1 at some point, but as easyrider said, the Albion One sale is kind of a no brainer.



I think buying the Kontakt version from NI and converting to Sine is the way to go then. I think I have seen it as low as ~450€ during a recent sale some months ago...

Although many despise Albion One, and I see a good reason why after spending some time with it, it is a fantastic tool if used properly and can shine really bright despite its age and limitations (check Blaneys demo in Albion product page).

Good luck with any of them! It is the composition, not samples, that matters the most I hope to think, afterall..


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## Bman70 (Dec 26, 2020)

antanasb said:


> I think buying the Kontakt version from NI and converting to Sine is the way to go then. I think I have seen it as low as ~450€ during a recent sale some months ago...
> 
> Although many despise Albion One, and I see a good reason why after spending some time with it, it is a fantastic tool if used properly and can shine really bright despite its age and limitations (check Blaneys demo in Albion product page).
> 
> Good luck with any of them! It is the composition, not samples, that matters the most I hope to think, afterall..



I'm thinking that since I plan to buy Ark1 at some point, I won't want Albion One. Ark1 being epic, I might not need HZ either. In that case Abbey Road One makes the most sense, as the most modern, tasty, and that I think showcasing Spitfire's improvements in doing samples over time.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 26, 2020)

As someone who typically prefers the sound of hyped modern orchestral samples over classical sounding samples, typically doesn’t care about the room a sample is recorded in...and someone who usually doesn’t care for Spitfire products...

Abbey Road One is awesome. It feels like the distilled essence of John Williams during that stint in the 70s-80s where he and Spielberg made magic.

This library and CinePerc just have that IT factor in their sound.


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## antanasb (Dec 26, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> I'm thinking that since I plan to buy Ark1 at some point, I won't want Albion One. Ark1 being epic, I might not need HZ either. In that case Abbey Road One makes the most sense, as the most modern, tasty, and that I think showcasing Spitfire's improvements in doing samples over time.



I would maybe say that quite contrary, Abbey Road is the most traditional, not modern, sounding library..? 

Also, I have seen that some instruments of Ark 1 has only two dynamic layers (e.g. some horns only f or fff dynamics, having a not-so-smooth transition in between). And the quietest is indeed still loud, limiting the versatility of the library quite severely.. This and the hefty price keeps me away from the Arks at the moment..

Pick your own poison, so to speak, as no library is perfect...


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## Bman70 (Dec 26, 2020)

antanasb said:


> I would maybe say that quite contrary, Abbey Road is the most traditional, not modern, sounding library..?
> 
> Also, I have seen that some instruments of Ark 1 has only two dynamic layers (e.g. some horns only f or fff dynamics, having a not-so-smooth transition in between). And the quietest is indeed still loud, limiting the versatility of the library quite severely.. This and the hefty price keeps me away from the Arks at the moment..
> 
> Pick your own poison, so to speak, as no library is perfect...



To my ears, the BBCSO libraries are the most traditional sounding. Abbey Road has a more slick, polished and brighter sound I think, like Nucleus but with less "synthy" overtones.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 26, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> The legato is great in HWS, yes, but I spent quite an effort trying to get them to sound massive, and there just wasn't that tone. It was like... large yet airy. Not the dense thickness of the other ones mentioned.



You’re not going to get that huge, epic string sound with BBCSO or Abbey.


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## antanasb (Dec 26, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> To my ears, the BBCSO libraries are the most traditional sounding. Abbey Road has a more slick, polished and brighter sound I think, like Nucleus but with less "synthy" overtones.



I see.. My perspective is a bit different then.


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## Russell Anderson (Dec 26, 2020)

RogiervG said:


> neither, wait for the modular orchestra in the abbey road line


This will be out in 2022. Assuming they're able to get even close to finished recording soon, and assuming the West even still exists besides a giant radioactive crater by then. First things released will be the... "Selections", aka what should have been released as part of AROOF. It's just ensembles again with legatos this time and maybe some extra fluff, but modular is all that really matters since they already released AROOF as an ensemble patch.

I own Abbey Road, and I'm desperately fishing around for some legato. It's looking, for me, like CSS, but with SCS on sale the decision has been quite tough indeed. And in fact, Hollywood Diamond in that example posted above hit my ears surprisingly well, too - on sale even for $150 right now, but I'm not going to pick it up as their new library will be released on the 21st. I think I'm going to wait to pick anything up until the 21st, and just to make sure I am not filled with regret about taking CSS or SCS (although by that point, RIP the Spitfire sale price) should their new HS Opal _really_ knock it out of the park (I've slept on them for years, as none of the musical examples have ever been very compelling to me, only synth-like - until that demo linked above, now I feel it''s worth waiting maybe)


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## Russell Anderson (Dec 26, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> For cinematic / game / hybrid / TV / Yanni Zimmer type stuff.
> One thing I've heard gripes about is no legato in ARO, but it's not always critical to every piece. Also, in the time between the releases you'd think they have gained some skills in sounding good.
> Albion One is very wet isn't it? Is Abbey Road drier?
> Which has the best shorts?
> ...


I can say that playing with Abbey Road using the shorts, especially, but even some of the longs, is _extremely_ reminiscent of the John Williams/movie-premiere sound, if you play through some Star Wars selections or Pirates of the Caribbean it'll sound essentially as it does in the movies, no joke. The mic positions are wonderful, the dynamic layers are wonderful.

Also, it is a spitfire library: the shorts are inconsistent in the round robins, so you'll need to render the shorts multiple times to get the "take" you want so that the round robins don't [email protected]$# up your final render by being out of time randomly. Daniel James is right that there is a "sucking" sound, instead of a natural note release, on the longs (and not the shorts); the lack of legato is extremely punishing for anything intimate besides mostly chordal parts. Frankly, with the dynamic layers I wonder why they bothered to add swells. I guess knowing they'd save the legato for later, they didn't it to be so obviously naked down there in the articulations (forgive my cynicism - it really is a great-sounding library and would be worth more than is being asked for it, comparatively in this economy of libraries, were it to have legatos, especially if it were better programmed...  ...)

That being said, the shorts are freaking amazing. Definitely the strongest part of the library, in my inexperienced opinion.

One more weak part to wrap it up - the dynamic layers, while detailed and lush, are inconsistent. Some of the bass notes especially, both in the tuba and string basses, are lacking compared to an octave up. The trombones are louder than the Tuba, but there's nothing to be done about it: ensembles. So for your absolute lowest octave and some way above that, you're going to need to really crank up the volume for some consistency and probably have the lowest octave done as a separate patch routed separately to take into account the volume differences. This is less of a big deal at some dynamic levels, but at the loudest, it's a big deal. Lastly, the brass shorts capture the absolute louds of brass. The longs do not. Other libraries can definitely get a louder timbre; the buzz/violent vibration of the instrument is not shown here, but instead a still very full, warm, and powerful sound. This is closer to reality than some of the more violent brass sounds in my opinion, as most brass players I am sure do not want to be blasting their faces into their mouth pieces for as long as samples can get away with, but this is about as loud as brass players want to go before they get into the "blat" sound that is quite popular (though the attacks are "blatty", and especially the Tuba will phase in and out of blattiness in their tone - they were really going for it, but the trombones did not want to get the 'ugly' sound that is quite popular these days in trailer-style music).

Sorry, I didn't bother to keep this very concise, I'm pretty tired and just wrote stream-of-consciousness essentially. I can demonstrate anything you're curious about if you'll give me some time, as especially tonight I will be asleep soon - but tomorrow, likely.


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## Justin L. Franks (Dec 27, 2020)

Russell Anderson said:


> Also, it is a spitfire library: the shorts are inconsistent in the round robins, so you'll need to render the shorts multiple times to get the "take" you want so that the round robins don't [email protected]$# up your final render by being out of time randomly.



If it were a Kontakt library instead of using Spitfire's new plugin, you'd be able to quickly and easily disable that one RR that is "off". Why this very important feature does not exist in their plugin is beyond me.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 27, 2020)

Albion One sounds like a mid-level videogame soundtrack from 5 years ago. Abbey Road is incomparably more realistic and rich: it sounds like the future (but also the glorious past), but of course it is missing a lot of things, most notably legatopodes. I have both but if I had to keep one it would for sure be Abbey.


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## ed buller (Dec 27, 2020)

Abbey Road is a different league from Albion One. I have both. Albion one just doesn't have the same sonic strengths They sound 10 years apart. 

best

e


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## ridgero (Dec 27, 2020)

Btw, does someone else prefer Mix 2 over Mix 1?

In Mix 2 the instruments sound more separated and the overall impression is more realistic.


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## Symfoniq (Dec 27, 2020)

ed buller said:


> Abbey Road is a different league from Albion One. I have both. Albion one just doesn't have the same sonic strengths They sound 10 years apart.
> 
> best
> 
> e



Albion One sounded worse upon release than the original Albion. It’s the most disappointing Spitfire library I own. It would be difficult to imagine that Abbey Road wasn’t better.


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## spacepluk (Dec 28, 2020)

I bought Abbey Road during the Black Friday sale and I'm still on the fence about whether I should get Albion ONE.

Abbey Road does sound more realistic than Albion ONE but that doesn't mean it sounds bad... it's just different.


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## erikradbo (Dec 28, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> I'm thinking that since I plan to buy Ark1 at some point, I won't want Albion One. Ark1 being epic, I might not need HZ either. In that case Abbey Road One makes the most sense, as the most modern, tasty, and that I think showcasing Spitfire's improvements in doing samples over time.


I’m a minority but having both id pick Albion one over ark 1 every day. Except for the choir.


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## antanasb (Dec 28, 2020)

spacepluk said:


> I bought Abbey Road during the Black Friday sale and I'm still on the fence about whether I should get Albion ONE.
> 
> Abbey Road does sound more realistic than Albion ONE but that doesn't mean it sounds bad... it's just different.



I agree. It is indeed older, but sounds totally fine, well at least to my ears...

Here is a piece I am working on at the moment using only Albion One. Honestly, I think it does not sound great not because of the samples, but because of my lack of knowledge in harmony, composition skills, poor ideas and timing issues...

Despite all that, no sample library will beat the real orchestra anytime soon, so I think, we will have to deal with some approximations of the thing for the coming years still...


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## Bman70 (Dec 28, 2020)

antanasb said:


> I agree. It is indeed older, but sounds totally fine, well at least to my ears...
> 
> Here is a piece I am working on at the moment using only Albion One. Honestly, I think it does not sound great not because of the samples, but because of my lack of knowledge in harmony, composition skills, poor ideas and timing issues...
> 
> Despite all that, no sample library will beat the real orchestra anytime soon, so I think, we will have to deal with some approximations of the thing for the coming years still...



I don't think it sounds bad. Very wet, of course... is that all the room sound from Albion itself? But still I wouldn't mind having that library, it seems to have everything need to at least put together a very convincing sketch.


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## jbuhler (Dec 28, 2020)

erikradbo said:


> I’m a minority but having both id pick Albion one over ark 1 every day. Except for the choir.


And the horns a9.


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## antanasb (Dec 28, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> I don't think it sounds bad. Very wet, of course... is that all the room sound from Albion itself? But still I wouldn't mind having that library, it seems to have everything need to at least put together a very convincing sketch.



I have used Ambient mics quite prominently here, so it has a lot of ambience. I have also added a hint of R2 on top just to glue everything a bit nicer.


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## from_theashes (Dec 29, 2020)

To me Albion One is the over all more complete package. It has way more articulations and the sound design section is just awesome! 
I layer Albion One with Studio Strings Pro which gives a nice crisp blend of the lush and big sound of Air Lyndhurst and the definition of Studio One.
The articulations in ARO and Nucleus are way more limited imo.


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## spacepluk (Dec 29, 2020)

I've been comparing ARO to Albion's ONE walkthrough video and Albion sounds dryer and more upfront to me no matter what combination of mics I use in ARO.

I'm also finding that the extra dynamic layers in ARO sound really nice... but the inconsistencies in the attacks add up and the shorts aren't as responsive as I wish they would when playing fast passages.


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## antanasb (Dec 29, 2020)

spacepluk said:


> I've been comparing ARO to Albion's ONE walkthrough video and Albion sounds dryer and more upfront to me no matter what combination of mics I use in ARO.
> 
> I'm also finding that the extra dynamic layers in ARO sound really nice... but the inconsistencies in the attacks add up and the shorts aren't as responsive as I wish they would when playing fast passages.



Totally agree about the dynamic layers...

I think both can sound good, but different. And for the discount price — 269€, Albion One is indeed an amazing deal for a complete epic-hybrid library, that can do so much...


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## Russell Anderson (Dec 29, 2020)

Are you sure there aren't other offerings that may provide you with something you don't already have, like Orbis, or Tundra? Orchestral Swarm? LCO, Symphonic/Olafur Chamber Evolutions? Are you just fundamentally unsatisfied with the timbre of your orchestral instruments or how they sit in the mix/stereo field?


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## Russell Anderson (Dec 29, 2020)

To follow up to my previous post, if it is indeed the timbre, or the way the instruments “move” or the way they sit in the stereo field, try finding some demos of either Albion One or AR1 that you actually enjoy. Record them into something like Audacity, move it into your DAW and then try layering what you already own on top. See how the sounds work out together and if it’s going to help you get what you’re after.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 29, 2020)

Remember that Albion One is also an ensembles library. If you might want to get into orchestrating separate sections, then BBC Core might be a better fit with Abbey, although you won't get hugely EPIC with that combination...


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## chlady (Dec 29, 2020)

Jotto said:


> Agree about the price. Why dont OT have sales like SF??? However you can buy individual instruments from ARK1. The low strings in Ark makes Albion blush.


They did through NI at 50% during black friday and earlier in the year that's when I bought all the arks. .


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## PaulieDC (Dec 29, 2020)

AROOF is an ongoing project, and that SOUND, wow. The dynamic layers are a big one. I'm not a fully accomplished composer at this point so I'd prefer to grow with AROOF. Even Berlin Brass debuted with no muted samples, then they followed up with a killer set as an expansion. I listened to Paul Thomson's AROOF walkthrough again today with headphones while prepping my house to paint, and caught again where they say there's a lot more to come with this new library. Just finish a piece for a friend and Abbey Road, BBCSO Core and some SCS gave me all I needed.

My vote: Abbey Road and BBCSO Core that's currently the lowest price since release. 

I mean, look what @Blakus pulled off with Abbey Road and a free copy of Studio One, just for kicks:
(46) Star Wars: Main Title - (Virtual Orchestra) / BLAKUS - YouTube


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## Russell Anderson (Dec 29, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> look what @Blakus pulled off with Abbey Road and a free copy of Studio One, just for kicks:
> (46) Star Wars: Main Title - (Virtual Orchestra) / BLAKUS - YouTube


I wouldn't doubt Abbey Road is in there, but I don't think that's all Abbey Road. If it is, then that's even more impressive than it already is, but I didn't see it specified anywhere


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## Bman70 (Dec 29, 2020)

The Star Wars thing is impressive, but whatever that modwheel pumping is starting at 0:28 is just waaaay too pronounced! I wonder if he was attempting to smooth out the non legatos, or just quick sketching since he didn't want to spend too much time.


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## tjr (Dec 29, 2020)

erikradbo said:


> I’m a minority but having both id pick Albion one over ark 1 every day. Except for the choir.


I do not have any of the Ark series, but based on the demo recordings, I would agree. I am very fond of the Spitfire sound in general.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 29, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> AROOF is an ongoing project, and that SOUND, wow. The dynamic layers are a big one. I'm not a fully accomplished composer at this point so I'd prefer to grow with AROOF. Even Berlin Brass debuted with no muted samples, then they followed up with a killer set as an expansion. I listened to Paul Thomson's AROOF walkthrough again today with headphones while prepping my house to paint, and caught again where they say there's a lot more to come with this new library. Just finish a piece for a friend and Abbey Road, BBCSO Core and some SCS gave me all I needed.
> 
> My vote: Abbey Road and BBCSO Core that's currently the lowest price since release.
> 
> ...


He said it’s a combination of AROOF and his own custom brass library.


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## Blakus (Dec 29, 2020)

There are about 4-5 brass libraries being used here (including AROOF), so I wouldn't use it as a gauge. And yes, the midi is pretty loose in the second half especially


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## Living Fossil (Dec 29, 2020)

Personally, i'm still hesitant with AR1 until it's clearer where the journey will go regarding expansions.
(mostly, because knowing how my brain works i prefer single instruments instead of mixed sections)

However, to my ears some of the stuff i heard that's made with AR1 is by far the best out of the box sound i ever heard in any product demos. The first demo on the SF page (P.Thomson) is just astonishing.

So i guess my vote goes very clearly to Abbey Road One.


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## Russell Anderson (Dec 29, 2020)

Living Fossil said:


> Personally, i'm still hesitant with AR1 until it's clearer where the journey will go regarding expansions.
> (mostly, because knowing how my brain works i prefer single instruments instead of mixed sections)


I too am curious and excited to see what "Modular Orchestra" means. I mean, the change in terminology could be a hype device, or it could actually mean something innovative. There are a lot of things that could be done with the way a sample library works, with regard to resource consumption, layering/easily programming your own "performance legato" or something... I am inexperienced enough at this game that my creativity stops there, aside from FMing the violins using the string basses as a modulator.... I don't think that's what they're referring to...

My fault for not doing more research on what is out there (for my first-ever library) before getting involved with Abbey Road One. The modular orchestra, which I am sure will be the prize of the lot with a proper set of articulations per individual instrument (not to offer this, after all, would be at least a profound disappointment), _does not require_ Orchestral Foundations, and thus - so far it appears I haven't really bought into anything but a base for an even more expensive complete collection of ensemble patches... Playable, yes, but as flexible as I'd prefer, not as much. I can, however, hope that there may be a discount on the modular orchestra for already owning part of the collection. We'll see. I'll do my best to get my money's worth out of AR1 until then, as boy. What a sound. It would not be truthful to say this was money wasted - just perhaps not the most apt decision for someone looking to buy their first orchestral library, as legato (and the ability to orchestrate) is a costly addition when resources are tight as mine.

I am sure we can expect the complete product to cost around $1-1.2k, depending on whether the Selections factor in (of which there will probably be 8 - low and high strings, low and high winds, brass, trumpet, horns, percussion expansion?)


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## jbuhler (Dec 29, 2020)

Russell Anderson said:


> I too am curious and excited to see what "Modular Orchestra" means. I mean, the change in terminology could be a hype device, or it could actually mean something innovative. There are a lot of things that could be done with the way a sample library works, with regard to resource consumption, layering/easily programming your own "performance legato" or something... I am inexperienced enough at this game that my creativity stops there, aside from FMing the violins using the string basses as a modulator.... I don't think that's what they're referring to...
> 
> My fault for not doing more research on what is out there (for my first-ever library) before getting involved with Abbey Road One. The modular orchestra, which I am sure will be the prize of the lot with a proper set of articulations per individual instrument (not to offer this, after all, would be at least a profound disappointment), _does not require_ Orchestral Foundations, and thus - so far it appears I haven't really bought into anything but a base for an even more expensive complete collection of ensemble patches... Playable, yes, but as flexible as I'd prefer, not as much. I can, however, hope that there may be a discount on the modular orchestra for already owning part of the collection. We'll see. I'll do my best to get my money's worth out of AR1 until then, as boy. What a sound. It would not be truthful to say this was money wasted - just perhaps not the most apt decision for someone looking to buy their first orchestral library, as legato (and the ability to orchestrate) is a costly addition when resources are tight as mine.
> 
> I am sure we can expect the complete product to cost around $1-1.2k, depending on whether the Selections factor in (of which there will probably be 8 - low and high strings, low and high winds, brass, trumpet, horns, percussion expansion?)


More like $2250 minimum for the modular orchestra, I think, and maybe well over $3000 depending on how detailed it ends up being. SSS currently costs $1700 when not on sale, and it doesn't include percussion. If they are going to keep SSS around, which they say they are committed to doing, AROOF will need to be somewhat more than that. $750 per section (that's what JXL brass sells for) X 4 is $3000, with 25% bundle discount, is $2250. That's as cheap as I see it being, and I think it will be considerably more. On the other hand, it being modular they might go back to the structure of the original BML, in which case you'll be able to buy it piecemeal. BML for instance sold SSS (as Mural) in a number of volumes, 4 or 5 as I recall. The flutes came in two volumes, the oboes and clarinets were packaged together (and never receive the second volume with extended articulations), etc.


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## Bman70 (Dec 29, 2020)

Living Fossil said:


> Personally, i'm still hesitant with AR1 until it's clearer where the journey will go regarding expansions.
> (mostly, because knowing how my brain works i prefer single instruments instead of mixed sections)
> 
> However, to my ears some of the stuff i heard that's made with AR1 is by far the best out of the box sound i ever heard in any product demos. The first demo on the SF page (P.Thompson) is just astonishing.
> ...



I wonder what instruments are in that demo which aren't from AR1. The last demo on that page is the same song, but the title adds "Orchestral Foundations Only."


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## jdrcomposer (Dec 29, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> I wonder what instruments are in that demo which aren't from AR1. The last demo on that page is the same song, but the title adds "Orchestral Foundations Only."


If you watch his walkthrough he shows this - I believe it’s just some synth bass elements


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## Russell Anderson (Dec 29, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> More like $2250 minimum for the modular orchestra, I think, and maybe well over $3000 depending on how detailed it ends up being. SSS currently costs $1700 when not on sale, and it doesn't include percussion. If they are going to keep SSS around, which they say they are committed to doing, AROOF will need to be somewhat more than that. $750 per section (that's what JXL brass sells for) X 4 is $3000, with 25% bundle discount, is $2250. That's as cheap as I see it being, and I think it will be considerably more. On the other hand, it being modular they might go back to the structure of the original BML, in which case you'll be able to buy it piecemeal. BML for instance sold SSS (as Mural) in a number of volumes, 4 or 5 as I recall. The flutes came in two volumes, the oboes and clarinets were packaged together (and never receive the second volume with extended articulations), etc.


You’re right. I was only considering SSS, not factoring in the additional cost of the other libraries of the full orchestra; so yes, probably at least $2k... with 3,000 not out of the realm of possibility... My head is spinning at these numbers; but with the quality of sound, and like you say, depending on the detail, it could end up being.... the best. So it’ll probably cost as much. I really should be more grateful about OF, as I’m... a ways off from being able to afford that, or any of the premium libraries out there with the depth of development I hope to see from the Abbey Road project.


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## prodigalson (Dec 30, 2020)

Just dropping in to add nothing useful other than to say that the more I work with Abbey Road One the more impatient I am for them to release the modular sections.

The sound is phenomenal, the cross fades are smooth, the dynamic range is solid and even just these ensemble patches are surprisingly playable.


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## ridgero (Dec 30, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> Just dropping in to add nothing useful other than to say that the more I work with Abbey Road One the more impatient I am for them to release the modular sections.
> 
> The sound is phenomenal, the cross fades are smooth, the dynamic range is solid and even just these ensemble patches are surprisingly playable.



Whatever the term "modular" means, we will see.

SA will gradually release little sections peu à peu. At the end (2021?), a large Abbey ONE will emerge from this. At some point it will probably be available as a large package to buy.

Then the individual big sections will come out, first Strings, then Brass, then Woodwinds, then Percussions etc ... Similar to what SA has already done with their other big projects.

Pure speculations, but I could be right.


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## antanasb (Dec 30, 2020)

Then, I will be eagerly waiting for when the complete Abbey Road Orchestral Foundations will be available at 40% discount price with all of the add-ons...

Though I would probably upgrade to BBC Pro first...


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## Cinebient (Dec 30, 2020)

Watched some walkthroughs and I was most impressed with the percussions....they really shine with the room sound. I would buy that as pack in a heartbeat. 
In general I like more the clear and not to huge sound of BBC but the percussions are so delicate in ARO. 
It seems a lot are after the Abbey Road Sound and I know why I would love it too.
I just hope they give this exclusive access more love for much more expressive ways to perform.
These ensemble patches sounds almost always great if you hammer some chords but it also get very fast overused. However, ARO gone straight to my Wishlist and sits there alone at the moment.


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## YK47 (Dec 30, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> More like $2250 minimum for the modular orchestra, I think, and maybe well over $3000 depending on how detailed it ends up being. SSS currently costs $1700 when not on sale, and it doesn't include percussion. If they are going to keep SSS around, which they say they are committed to doing, AROOF will need to be somewhat more than that. $750 per section (that's what JXL brass sells for) X 4 is $3000, with 25% bundle discount, is $2250. That's as cheap as I see it being, and I think it will be considerably more. On the other hand, it being modular they might go back to the structure of the original BML, in which case you'll be able to buy it piecemeal. BML for instance sold SSS (as Mural) in a number of volumes, 4 or 5 as I recall. The flutes came in two volumes, the oboes and clarinets were packaged together (and never receive the second volume with extended articulations), etc.


2250$??? Considering the next releases will cost 45$ that means we should expect around 30 of them to come out for the AROOF series? To me so far it sounds like that the AROOF series is Spitfire's answer to OT's a la carte, same with the Originals.


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## yiph2 (Dec 30, 2020)

Eh, I think at least $4000 for the modular orchestra. SSS without sale is $799, and we also know that AR Modular will be the most detailed library they've produced (more dynamic layers, RRs etc), so I would be guessing around $1000 per section, which would be $4000 in total


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## antanasb (Dec 30, 2020)

YK47 said:


> 2250$??? Considering the next releases will cost 45$ that means we should expect around 30 of them to come out?



Abbey Road Modular Orchestra is not Abbey Road Orchestral Foundations. The former is another library with proper sections, the latter — ensemble based library that the basis of we already can purchase..


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## davidson (Dec 30, 2020)

Blakus said:


> There are about 4-5 brass libraries being used here (including AROOF), so I wouldn't use it as a gauge. And yes, the midi is pretty loose in the second half especially



I don't suppose you'd be willing to bounce out a naked abbey road version would you? It'd be interesting to hear what it's adding now we've heard it in context.


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## YK47 (Dec 30, 2020)

antanasb said:


> Abbey Road Modular Orchestra is not Abbey Road Orchestral Foundations. The former is another library with proper sections, the latter — ensemble based library that the basis of we already can purchase..


Yes but the next 2 sets of sections that are coming out will cost $49! That is the start of the modular. Foundations is just the first library. And it looks like these smaller "booster packs" will stay at that price for a while with the highest price I expect for some to be around 100/119$ with some being movie thematic possibly. Much like what cinesamples is doing with their smaller add ons for cinebrass.


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## antanasb (Dec 30, 2020)

YK47 said:


> Yes but the next 2 sets of sections that are coming out will cost $49! That is the start of the modular. Foundations is just the first library.



In my understanding — not.

The expansions that will be available for 49$ soon are pre-orchestrated, like Paul demonstrated in a video which he shared here somewhere. That will be part of the Orchestral Foundations, not Modular Orchestra, which will come probably much later.

As far as I understand Orchestral Foundations are almost completely recorded already, while Modular orchestra — only some very small bits. They should be two separate entities with totally different posibillities, sharing the same, amazing Abbey Road sound..

Like e.g. Albion One and Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra. The same hall, but one featuring ensembles while the other proper sections. Just in the Abbey Road Orchestral Foundations case, people will have to buy legato parts and other stuff additionally...


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## yiph2 (Dec 30, 2020)

YK47 said:


> Yes but the next 2 sets of sections that are coming out will cost $49! That is the start of the modular. Foundations is just the first library. And it looks like these smaller "booster packs" will stay at that price for a while with the highest price I expect for some to be around 100/119$ with some being movie thematic possibly. Much like what cinesamples is doing with their smaller add ons for cinebrass.


That is not modular. That is part of the film scoring selections


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## YK47 (Dec 30, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> That is not modular. That is part of the film scoring selections


I thought this is what they meant by modular.


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## yiph2 (Dec 30, 2020)

No, modular means a super detailed orchestral library similar to SSO. The expansions to AR1 is the film scoring selections, which are also ensembles (low strings and woodwind legato announced)


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## ridgero (Dec 30, 2020)

YK47 said:


> I thought this is what they meant by modular.



The truth is, nobody knows what "modular" really means, as there is no official statement about it yet. Those who do know won't tell us because they signed an NDA.

My guess: Modular is very similar to SSO/BBCSO with further improved details. We won't get disappointed this time, maybe about the price. (around 3000-4000 for the whole orchestra?)

To be honest, I'm still pretty disappointed that BBCSO doesn't have as many dynamic layers as Abbey Road One.


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## yiph2 (Dec 30, 2020)

ridgero said:


> The truth is, nobody knows what "modular" really means, as there is no official statement about it yet. Those who do know won't tell us because they signed an NDA.


But... Paul already explained it. He said in the video it was for people who do detailed orchestration, which basically means a full orchestral library.


ridgero said:


> My guess: Modular is very similar to SSO/BBCSO with further improved details. I'm actually quite disappointed why they didn't add as much layers in BBCSO... :/


More layers? AR1 has 5 dynamic layers, BBCSO has <3...


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## ridgero (Dec 30, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> More layers? AR1 has 5 dynamic layers, BBCSO has <3...


Wrong grammer, sorry - I corrected it :D


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## YK47 (Dec 30, 2020)

ridgero said:


> The truth is, nobody knows what "modular" really means, as there is no official statement about it yet. Those who do know won't tell us because they signed an NDA.
> 
> My guess: Modular is very similar to SSO/BBCSO with further improved details. We won't get disappointed this time, maybe about the price. (around 3000-4000 for the whole orchestra?)
> 
> To be honest, I'm still pretty disappointed that BBCSO doesn't have as many dynamic layers as Abbey Road One.


No way 3-4k for the full orchestra.

I have no idea how did this come out... Spitfire spies market researching if people would moan about such idea/price, or people wishful thinking but in a suicidal way


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## YK47 (Dec 30, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> No, modular means a super detailed orchestral library similar to SSO. The expansions to AR1 is the film scoring selections, which are also ensembles (low strings and woodwind legato announced)


Yep.. nowhere does it say about something much BIGGER than the booster Selections. And this is modular in its nature as you pick and mix.


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## yiph2 (Dec 30, 2020)

YK47 said:


> Yep.. nowhere does it say about something much BIGGER than the booster Selections. And this is modular in its nature as you pick and mix.


Umm... Film Scoring Selections is NOT MODULAR...
Paul made a video about the expansions, and it was low strings legato and high woodwinds legato. There's no way that is "detailed orchestration"

Also, $3-4k is completely reasonable. The most detailed orchestral library they've made, more than SSO. SSO is about +2k not discounted, so 3k is fair


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## yiph2 (Dec 30, 2020)

Paul said that one of the modular sections was recorded as well. So we can tell film scoring selections and modular are completely different. His quote below:


Spoiler



ABBEY ROAD ONE - FILM SCORING SELECTIONS

This is ensemble based, and gives you this incredible Studio 1 sound, out of the box, in a lot of detail (dynamics). You have the first product in this line - ORCHESTRAL FOUNDATIONS - which is the kind of fundamental stuff that gets you started. You can hear what you can do with this by checking out the first few demos, my demo Midio on youtube, and of course Guy M's fabulous first look Youtube.

Now we have recorded (and are building) a ton of material that focusses on specific *performance* things, culled from our favourite scores - these may be orchestrated, may be single section, but each patch is focussed on achieving a specific thing really brilliantly. A proportion of this stuff contains legato patches designed and honed on specific use cases. We've done a lot of research and testing in this area and have a load of new techniques we're incorporating into our work.

These extras are the other 'Selections' that load into the Abbey Road ONE plugin. You can pick and choose the bits that appeal to you for your own writing - and ignore the stuff you aren't interested in.

You can even just grab a couple of selections and ignore the 'Orchestral Foundations' library - you don't have to have that to work in ONE. (But, I gotta say, having been using OF, every patch is now in my template!! lol)

OK so why not just make one large package with everything in it? Well, it would be a lot more expensive than OF is. Believe it or not this contains many, many days of session time, and you can hear it when you start playing it. It's not just about the room, we're not charging an Abbey Road tax or Simon Rhodes surcharge. We want to enable buyers to focus on what they are interested in and ignore the stuff they aren't.

We're still recording more bits for some of the selections - as we always do with every library, we do session blocks, come back and pick up extras, re-record things that didn't quite turn out as we planned and need some tweaks in the performance, etc etc. I know whats in the first two selections and their planned release date, and we'll share that info soon, before the end of the intro period, and also some info on the other selections that are in progress (being built). I'm not quite ready to yet, as we are doing a final build on a few patches this week.

This comes back to - we won't announce until we've built, tested, happy, and ready to go. We're close on that. I literally can't wait to let you hear the first few selections!

So what about this new *modular orchestra*? Well again, I don't want to announce stuff thats not yet ready. I can tell you - its a long and exciting journey we've embarked on. Making stuff at this level of detail ain't fast. But it all locks into the ONE sound immaculately - same setups, same room, same engineer, same musicians. Think about this as a Moog Modular, some people want more VCFS, some love Clouds, some focus on Maths stuff (I'm terrible with modular so Christian will probably tell me my reference points are way off!) - again you will be able to build and focus your SF Abbey Road modular the way you want, with just the sounds you need. It is the most detailed and comprehensive project we've ever undertaken.

What is all this about Studio 2? Where's that come in? - well, again I'm not going to tell you about stuff that's still in progress!! This is wholly separate from the projects we are recording in Studio 1.

Studio 1 = Film Scoring Selections & the new Modular Orchestra.

Someone asked about the dynamic layers in Orchestral Foundations percussion - its mostly 7 dynamics but this varies according to common sense.


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## ridgero (Dec 30, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> Paul said that one of the modular sections was recorded as well. So we can tell film scoring selections and modular are completely different. His quote below:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



This quote is fantastic, thanks for sharing.

He's absolutely right when he talks about the sound.

I was initially quite averse to Abbey Road ONE because I didn't see the benefit of a new "Albion One". In the end it was the birthday present from my girlfriend ;D 

I can't put it into words, but I was blown away when I hit the first note. Especially the transitions between the individual layers are so fantastic. It doesn't matter which dynamic layer you hit, it sounds very full and present in the quiet area, but it doesn't clink even in the loudest layers.

And yes, Mix 1 and Mix 2 are tremendously good, it's so much fun to experiment with.


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## paulthomson (Dec 30, 2020)

great to hear!

Also this vid has lots of really useful tips from Simon Rhodes in:


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## Cinebient (Dec 30, 2020)

I even would buy this too maybe if they finally would add a dedicated ADSR (with customisable curves/slopes) since the biggest contra for me in most SF libraries is these ducking sound sometimes from releasing notes and weird inconsistence attacks here and there.
I hope they include these standard options before the next phantastillion of GB content.
I like the player actually a lot but it really needs some more standard options for editing. Their release button helps just sometimes, its just not enough control. I don't need all the full Kontakt bloat but some of the (at least for me) i would call standard in any sample player.
So while I also disagree with a lot i also agree in many points when people said, that it would be nice to see other developers had the chance to record sessions there and take it really to the next level.
Do not get that wrong, I like most of my Spitfire tools and I have a bunch of them now but the more I have, the more I experience the let it go as is and go to the next big project.
But that room sound is just really delicious. Damn.


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## YK47 (Dec 30, 2020)

At no point Paul says that there will be bigger releases that are different. What he means with modular is all these smaller sized releases, that will grow into something big in the end. You can pick even a small portion without the need of the foundation first release! It is crystal clear to me. I do not understand where you guys are reading Spitfire releasing Foundations+small packs, and then a huge SSO type of release later. It makes absolutely no sense as well to do that. Unless they do collections of these little packs as something bigger with a discounted price.


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## antanasb (Dec 30, 2020)

paulthomson said:


> great to hear!
> 
> Also this vid has lots of really useful tips from Simon Rhodes in:




Fantastic sound...

Sometime in the future maybe.. The alternator in the vehicle has the priority this time... Haha..


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## yiph2 (Dec 30, 2020)

YK47 said:


> At no point Paul says that there will be bigger releases that are different. What he means with modular is all these smaller sized releases, that will grow into something big in the end. You can pick even a small portion without the need of the foundation first release! It is crystal clear to me. I do not understand where you guys are reading Spitfire releasing Foundations+small packs, and then a huge SSO type of release later. It makes absolutely no sense as well to do that.


I don't understand how you don't understand. "Studio 1 = Film Scoring Selections & the new Modular Orchestra."

The Film Scoring Selections is mentioned on AR1. "These will be smaller and more focused libraries inspired by classic films offering pre-orchestrated instrument pairings and themes."

Then in the announcement video, Paul said there would be an upcoming modular orchestra that would be for people who do detailed orchestration. How is pre-orchestrated instruments suitable for detailed orchestration? Even Paul said the selections and modular orchestra is separate. "Most detailed library we've ever created", not "small packs of instruments"

Anyways, we can ask @christianhenson @paulthomson to chime in about this


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## YK47 (Dec 30, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> I don't understand how you don't understand. "Studio 1 = Film Scoring Selections & the new Modular Orchestra."
> 
> The Film Scoring Selections is mentioned on AR1. "These will be smaller and more focused libraries inspired by classic films offering pre-orchestrated instrument pairings and themes."
> 
> ...



I wanted to tag them as well, but I thought maybe it is good to let them have some quality time off with their families for a while :D 

Releasing smaller packs leading to a big orchestra much like VSL has been doing it does make it modular. Otherwise if you expect an SSO type of release.. how would that be modular? Pre-orchestrated section is one thing, they can also release smaller packs of individual sections.


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## yiph2 (Dec 30, 2020)

YK47 said:


> Releasing smaller packs leading to a big orchestra much like VSL has been doing it does make it modular. Otherwise if you expect an SSO type of release.. how would that be modular? Pre-orchestrated section is one thing, they can also release smaller packs of individual sections.


Yes that is possible, however, what we mean by SSO release is a complete and full orchestral library. Also, Christian has mentioned that they would not do the a la carte option of buying individual articulations/instruments, so a release similar to SSO would make the most sense.


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## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> Eh, I think at least $4000 for the modular orchestra. SSS without sale is $799, and we also know that AR Modular will be the most detailed library they've produced (more dynamic layers, RRs etc), so I would be guessing around $1000 per section, which would be $4000 in total


yes, I wouldn’t be surprised to see $4000 combined for the individual libraries. Or even $5000 or higher. I‘m just saying I can’t see it being any cheaper than $3000 combined, then having a discount for the bundle, because i think the pricing needs to be such that there’s a significant price difference from SSO. More expensive than $3000 is more likely.


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## yiph2 (Dec 30, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> yes, I wouldn’t be surprised to see $4000 combined for the individual libraries. Or even $5000 or higher. I‘m just saying I can’t see it being any cheaper than $3000 combined, then having a discount for the bundle, because i think the pricing needs to be such that there’s a significant price difference from SSO. More expensive than $3000 is more likely.


Yea, considering that this would be a lot more detailed than other libraries (5 dynamic layers!!!) Also considering SSO is actually quite old now, AR would be a lot more expensive. We also do not know if there are more things going to be recorded (more percussion, chamber strings?, choir? please? )


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## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> Yea, considering that this would be a lot more detailed than other libraries (5 dynamic layers!!!) Also considering SSO is actually quite old now, AR would be a lot more expensive. We also do not know if there are more things going to be recorded (more percussion, chamber strings?, choir? please? )


The age of the library is less important than when it’s scripting was last given an overhaul. I still expect the port of SSO to the SF player to be a major advance for that library. I suspect the delays in its release relate to the work they are doing on that. I wouldn’t be surprised to see SSO have performance legato across the line, or even that they update the legato with the new approach they are developing for the AR1 line.

I’m assuming modular AR1 will have a full set of standard orchestral percussion. I imagine it will have a harp and piano as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if each section had a core with basic articulations and then a set expansions for mutes, extended articulations, etc. i think they are likely to have at least a big string section and a chamber one, and they might have a medium sized one as well. Likely solo strings too. I’m hoping for at least two soloist for each of the winds and brass, as well as an a2 or a3 for the main winds and brass and a6 or larger patches for the brass. All of this is complete speculation but fun to think about. I am saving for it...


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## YK47 (Dec 30, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> Yes that is possible, however, what we mean by SSO release is a complete and full orchestral library. Also, Christian has mentioned that they would not do the a la carte option of buying individual articulations/instruments, so a release similar to SSO would make the most sense.



To me this makes absolutely no sense. So two different branches of Abbey Road?
In effect you guys think that they will do all the AIR releases back from scratch but this time at Abbey Road? So AROOF is the original ALBION, and anything else will be similar to what has been done before but at Abbey Road and this time on the Spitfire player? Hmm interesting.


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## Aldo_arf (Dec 30, 2020)

Ok, I just bought Abbey Road for $244. What a deal!


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## antanasb (Dec 30, 2020)

YK47 said:


> To me this makes absolutely no sense. So two different brances of Abbey Road?
> In effect you guys think that they will do all the AIR releases back from scratch but this time at Abbey Road? So AROOF is the original ALBION, and anything else will be similar to what has been done before but at Abbey Road and this time on the Spitfire player? Hmm interesting.



Well, if you would just watch the announcement video...


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## antanasb (Dec 30, 2020)

Aldo_arf said:


> Ok, I just bought Abbey Road for $244. What a deal!



How? Thats without VAT then?


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## Aldo_arf (Dec 30, 2020)

antanasb said:


> How? Thats without VAT then?


46% off regular price


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## antanasb (Dec 30, 2020)

Aldo_arf said:


> 46% off regular price



Nope. You haven’t paid the taxes. Probably bought it as a company with VAT exemption?


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## Aldo_arf (Dec 30, 2020)

antanasb said:


> Nope. You haven’t paid the taxes. Probably bought it as a company with VAT exemption?


No, I simply added my edu discount. $244 was my total. It’s stated in my bank account log


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## StefVR (Dec 30, 2020)

Regarding Modular Orchestra:of course it will be over 3000 in total. The current line is too. String sections, woodwinds, percussion, brass, solo sections, different ensembles that will be a lot.


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## Markrs (Dec 30, 2020)

Aldo_arf said:


> 46% off regular price


Ah student discount didn't realise you could use it on intro price (I still have a active student card but haven't registered it with spitfire). You might want to hide the code though! I doubt it could be reused by someone else, but just in case.


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## antanasb (Dec 30, 2020)

Markrs said:


> Ah student discount didn't realise you could use it on intro price (I still have a active student card but haven't registered it with spitfire). You might want to hide the code though! I doubt it could be reused by someone else, but just in case.



Good point, missed that!


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## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2020)

Markrs said:


> Ah student discount didn't realise you could use it on intro price (I still have a active student card but haven't registered it with spitfire). You might want to hide the code though! I doubt it could be reused by someone else, but just in case.


Normally EDU discounts don't stack with other discounts aside for the EDU sale, when bundles also are on further discount.

"The educational discount applies to the RRP of a product, so you can’t get an educational discount on collections, collection exclusive products, or products that are already discounted by an amount equal to or greater than 30%."


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## Aldo_arf (Dec 30, 2020)

Markrs said:


> Ah student discount didn't realise you could use it on intro price (I still have a active student card but haven't registered it with spitfire). You might want to hide the code though! I doubt it could be reused by someone else, but just in case.


I think that code is a one time use. There is an individal code for each product.


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## Markrs (Dec 30, 2020)

Aldo_arf said:


> I think that code is a one time use. There is an individal code for each product.


That's good to hear


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## Markrs (Dec 30, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Normally EDU discounts don't stack with other discounts aside for the EDU sale, when bundles also are on further discount.
> 
> "The educational discount applies to the RRP of a product, so you can’t get an educational discount on collections, collection exclusive products, or products that are already discounted by an amount equal to or greater than 30%."


Sounds like @Aldo_arf got lucky


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## Trash Panda (Dec 30, 2020)

antanasb said:


> Nope. You haven’t paid the taxes. Probably bought it as a company with VAT exemption?


We don’t have VAT in the U.S.


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## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2020)

Markrs said:


> Sounds like @Aldo_arf got lucky


SF pricing has often been wonky like this and it's not uncommon to get unexpected deals during sales with EDU pricing. I've never seen it stack like this, but frequently, for whatever reason, the EDU price works out to being a little bit better (like 2-3%) deal than the standard EDU 30% off.


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## antanasb (Dec 30, 2020)

Trash Panda said:


> We don’t have VAT in the U.S.



Here it costs 349€ or 428$ with Winter Sale...


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## Bman70 (Dec 30, 2020)

antanasb said:


> Here it costs 349€ or 428$ with Winter Sale...








Winter sale in US is $349. That's what I like about Spitfire, if they price something at 100, it's 100€ or $100.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 30, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> Winter sale in US is $349. That's what I like about Spitfire, if they price something at 100, it's 100€ or $100.


I believe the EUR price is with VAT so they’re not really giving Americans that much of a break.


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## YK47 (Dec 30, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> Winter sale in US is $349. That's what I like about Spitfire, if they price something at 100, it's 100€ or $100.


That would have not been the case if you lived in the EU though.


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## Aldo_arf (Dec 30, 2020)

From Spitfire sale FAQ: 
“CAN I USE YOUR 30% EDUCATIONAL DISCOUNT SCHEME ON TOP OF THE SALE? 

You can’t combine the two discounts so anything that is in the sale at more than 30% will not be eligible for an educational discount. Products that are less than 30% will receive an educational discount that “tops up” the discount to the 30%.”

I guess I got lucky 🤔


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## antanasb (Dec 30, 2020)

Aldo_arf said:


> From Spitfire sale FAQ:
> “CAN I USE YOUR 30% EDUCATIONAL DISCOUNT SCHEME ON TOP OF THE SALE?
> 
> You can’t combine the two discounts so anything that is in the sale at more than 30% will not be eligible for an educational discount. Products that are less than 30% will receive an educational discount that “tops up” the discount to the 30%.”
> ...



Consider it a late Christmas present?


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## Bman70 (Dec 30, 2020)

Aldo_arf said:


> From Spitfire sale FAQ:
> “CAN I USE YOUR 30% EDUCATIONAL DISCOUNT SCHEME ON TOP OF THE SALE?
> 
> You can’t combine the two discounts so anything that is in the sale at more than 30% will not be eligible for an educational discount. Products that are less than 30% will receive an educational discount that “tops up” the discount to the 30%.”
> ...



But Abbey Road isn't part of the 40% Winter Sale discount, it merely went back to intro price, which was something like 20% off.


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## PaulieDC (Dec 30, 2020)

Trash Panda said:


> He said it’s a combination of AROOF and his own custom brass library.


Oh, yeah, that. Whoops!


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## PaulieDC (Dec 30, 2020)

Blakus said:


> There are about 4-5 brass libraries being used here (including AROOF), so I wouldn't use it as a gauge. And yes, the midi is pretty loose in the second half especially


Oh right, I do remember you mentioning that. Thing is, AROOF is a work in progress and will grow as us noobers grow. Maybe is a couple years you wouldn't need all the extra libraries due to expansion. It's subjective though, my take may not be the same as others, Albion One is what it is and it's not going to expand much if at all with updates AFAIK. After buying all-in-ones in the beginning, I'm realizing the potential for the individual and now the new cohesive-driven libraries. I guess my answer to the OP was that Albion One is now, AROOF is future (plus that amazing room), so there's the thing to sort out.

As far as the second half, yeah, we notice the bit of volume changes, etc, but so WHAT, it's a 43-second motivational tool to get us up and off our backsides. I'm still at the point where I wish I knew what you've forgotten. We'll get there.


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## PaulieDC (Dec 30, 2020)

Russell Anderson said:


> I wouldn't doubt Abbey Road is in there, but I don't think that's all Abbey Road. If it is, then that's even more impressive than it already is, but I didn't see it specified anywhere


You're right, he had to mix in other libraries since AROOF is in infant stage. Still, it lit my wet wood, I need that.


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## Bman70 (Dec 30, 2020)

Can anyone post an example of Abbey Road (just strings) being "epic"? At least insofar as it can. Like mostly the lows, bass celli and violas, because I'm wondering how it stacks up to BSS' low end and also Hans Zimmer Strings which is tempting.


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## spacepluk (Dec 30, 2020)

I ended up getting Albion ONE as well... I’ll try to record a quick comparison video next week after I’m done celebrating the end of this f#%!ing year 😄


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## prodigalson (Dec 30, 2020)

YK47 said:


> In effect you guys think that they will do all the AIR releases back from scratch but this time at Abbey Road? So AROOF is the original ALBION, and anything else will be similar to what has been done before but at Abbey Road and this time on the Spitfire player?



Yes. This has been discussed over and over again and has been confirmed by Paul in the original Abbey Road thread. 

Its not clear what they mean by “modular” so it could be Strings, WW, Brass etc Like SSO or it could be Violins/Violas, Celli/Bass, Flutes etc etc. like when they originally released BML. Although I fully expect it to be the former a la SSO. They abandoned the BML format for a reason. Makes no sense to go back to it. That might not be the definition of “modular” as you understand it but regardless they’ve confirmed that that’s the roadmap:

Abbey Road ONE = Albion ONE

Film Scoring Selections = variety of $49 packs that are pre-orchestrated sections like Symphobia

”Modular Orchestra” = SSO


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## Bman70 (Dec 30, 2020)

p.s. disclosure I'm interested in Albion One vs Abbey Road One as it currently exists, not as some potentially larger conglomerate of add-ons. Although if legato ever happens that would be a huge plus.


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## prodigalson (Dec 30, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> yes, I wouldn’t be surprised to see $4000 combined for the individual libraries. Or even $5000 or higher. I‘m just saying I can’t see it being any cheaper than $3000 combined, then having a discount for the bundle, because i think the pricing needs to be such that there’s a significant price difference from SSO. More expensive than $3000 is more likely.


I imagine they‘ll just reduce the list prices of the SSO libraries when the Abbey Road orchestra is released. Theres’ no way they’re going to price their libraries closer to $1000, That would make them the most expensive libraries currently available and doesn’t reflect the current market no matter how deepy sampled they are. Even OT priced their new full symphonic strings library at $599 list. 

I expect them to be more in line with how SSO is priced now.


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## antanasb (Dec 30, 2020)

spacepluk said:


> I ended up getting Albion ONE as well... I’ll try to record a quick comparison video next week after I’m done celebrating the end of this f#%!ing year 😄



Will be eagerly waiting for a comparison!

I am really interested in mic comparisons...


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## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> I imagine they‘ll just reduce the list prices of the SSO libraries when the Abbey Road orchestra is released. Theres’ no way they’re going to price their libraries closer to $1000, That would make them the most expensive libraries currently available and doesn’t reflect the current market no matter how deepy sampled they are. Even OT priced their new full symphonic strings library at $599 list.
> 
> I expect them to be more in line with how SSO is priced now.


If they lower the price of SSO, then they run into self pricing competition with BBCSO and the Studio Series. I think they would discontinue SSS rather than do that. The place they have real space is at the premium level. From a brand reputation standpoint, there's something to be said for having the most expensive flagship available, so long as most everyone concedes it's excellent. The question is how expensive. We also don't know how many modules this might ultimately contain. A core strings, winds, brass, and percussion set may well be available for around the same price as SSO, but with a much more limited set of articulations and/or instruments. But I'll be very surprised if the full modular set comes in under $3000. I think it will be considerably higher. Of course, I'll be happy to be surprised, though personally I'd like to see them make this as comprehensive as they can and to cut as few corners as they can, and I don't see them doing that and bringing it in under $3000 either.

BBS has a very limited number of articulations. It doesn't compare on that measure with Berlin Strings, SSS, or SCS. Look at the cost of the full Berlin Strings, over 1200€ (1500€ with the first chairs). Berlin Brass almost 1400€. Woodwinds roughly 1500€, Percussion 625€. Total: around 4300€.


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## prodigalson (Dec 30, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Look at the cost of the full Berlin Strings, over 1200€ (1500€ with the first chairs). Berlin Brass almost 1400€. Woodwinds roughly 1500€, Percussion 625€. Total: around 4300€.


Sure, but there’s no ONE library OT sells that’s $1200. If you want all the expansions then yes, but the base libraries are well under $1000 and that’s an important point. 

Also, we don’t yet know how many articulations SF will decide are necessary in Abbey Road. They may take OTs view that the articulations available in BSS are all that’s really necessary at this point and sacrifice some of the more obscure articulations from SSO in order to maintain 5 dyn layers, RR and the full set of mics avail in AR One in order to keep it in the $799 range. 

I agree that its likely they’ll do a core and pro tiered version of the library and agree the full set likely won’t come in under $3000 but don’t think you’ll see them releasing ABBEY ROAD STRINGS!...$999. At that price maybe some A list and pros will buy in in addition to people who are independently wealthy but the other 90% of their customer base will be out.


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## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> Also, we don’t yet know how many articulations SF will decide are necessary in Abbey Road. They may take OTs view that the articulations available in BSS are all that’s really necessary at this point and sacrifice some of the more obscure articulations from SSO in order to maintain 5 dyn layers, RR and the full set of mics avail in AR One in order to keep it in the $799 range


Sure, they might offer it in smaller modules and more of them. That might even be likely. But it will be much less attractive if the full library doesn’t offer an extensive list of articulations. And I expect the full bundle to be far more expensive than anything SF currently has on offer.


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## prodigalson (Dec 30, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> And I expect the full bundle to be far more expensive than anything SF currently has on offer.


no doubt and I actually hope that it is (within reason). I have most of the orchestras out there including BBCSO which I really like but suffers from some of the corners they cut to get it under $999. So I have little need for another full orchestra under $1000 but with 2 dynamic layers. What I want is an orchestra recorded at Abbey Road with excellent dynamic range, sufficient round robins, excellent crossfades and innovative legatos that has been edited and programmed as well as possible. From using Abbey Road ONE I'm optimistic its what we may get, but only at a premium price...

...I just dont think itll be more than $799 per base library.


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## yiph2 (Dec 30, 2020)

I expect it to be a lot more. SSS is already 799. Considering Abbey Road has more dynamics and RRs, it would be much more expensive to record and program


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## Rory (Dec 30, 2020)

The discussion in the last few posts about where the Abbey Road library may be headed reinforces my gut feeling to stay away from it until Spitfire is more forthcoming about the roadmap and cost.


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## José Herring (Dec 30, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> Sure, but there’s no ONE library OT sells that’s $1200. If you want all the expansions then yes, but the base libraries are well under $1000 and that’s an important point.
> 
> Also, we don’t yet know how many articulations SF will decide are necessary in Abbey Road. They may take OTs view that the articulations available in BSS are all that’s really necessary at this point and sacrifice some of the more obscure articulations from SSO in order to maintain 5 dyn layers, RR and the full set of mics avail in AR One in order to keep it in the $799 range.
> 
> I agree that its likely they’ll do a core and pro tiered version of the library and agree the full set likely won’t come in under $3000 but don’t think you’ll see them releasing ABBEY ROAD STRINGS!...$999. At that price maybe some A list and pros will buy in in addition to people who are independently wealthy but the other 90% of their customer base will be out.


I think on release of AROOF the price mentioned was $49 for each additional expansion. Then somebody calculated that the entire package including AROOF would come in at under $1000. Kind of similar to BBCSO price wise. I have no idea if this is true or not but it would seem to make the most sense. Abbey won't have solo instruments and only sections as far as I know.

But...time will tell. Spitfire doesn't seem like the greedy type of people and honestly wtih BBO and BBCSO kind of setting a new bar price wise not sure the market would bear another $3000 - $5000 library unless said library also cooked me dinner every night. 

But, never say never


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## Trash Panda (Dec 30, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> Can anyone post an example of Abbey Road (just strings) being "epic"? At least insofar as it can. Like mostly the lows, bass celli and violas, because I'm wondering how it stacks up to BSS' low end and also Hans Zimmer Strings which is tempting.


My meager skills don’t do the song justice, but it’s almost 100% AR1.






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## prodigalson (Dec 30, 2020)

José Herring said:


> I think on release of AROOF the price mentioned was $49 for each additional expansion. Then somebody calculated that the entire package including AROOF would come in at under $1000. Kind of similar to BBCSO price wise. I have no idea if this is true or not but it would seem to make the most sense. Abbey won't have solo instruments and only sections as far as I know.


We're discussing the modular abbey road orchestra, not the abbey road film scoring selections which are the $49 expansions. It's been discussed ad nauseum here because their rollout for this has been really confusing but its been confirmed by Paul Thomson that Abbey Road ONE and the $49 pre-orchestrated section expansions are one line of products recored at Abbey Road. The "modular" orchestra recorded at Abbey Road is a *separate* line of products that will be more similar to SSO in that it will be individual libraries for each section of the orchestra WITH solo instruments and individual sections. This is the line of products we're discussing.



José Herring said:


> not sure the market would bear another $3000 - $5000 library unless said library also cooked me dinner every night.


This I agree with.


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## José Herring (Dec 30, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> We're discussing the modular abbey road orchestra, not the abbey road film scoring selections which are the $49 expansions. It's been discussed ad nauseum here because their rollout for this has been really confusing but its been confirmed by Paul Thomson that Abbey Road ONE and the $49 pre-orchestrated section expansions are one line of products recored at Abbey Road. The "modular" orchestra recorded at Abbey Road is a *separate* line of products that will be more similar to SSO in that it will be individual libraries for each section of the orchestra WITH solo instruments and individual sections. This is the line of products we're discussing.
> 
> 
> This I agree with.


Oh my, things have gone in a direction I didn't expect.


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## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> We're discussing the modular abbey road orchestra, not the abbey road film scoring selections which are the $49 expansions. It's been discussed ad nauseum here because their rollout for this has been really confusing but its been confirmed by Paul Thomson that Abbey Road ONE and the $49 pre-orchestrated section expansions are one line of products recored at Abbey Road. The "modular" orchestra recorded at Abbey Road is a *separate* line of products that will be more similar to SSO in that it will be individual libraries for each section of the orchestra WITH solo instruments and individual sections. This is the line of products we're discussing.
> 
> 
> This I agree with.


I wonder more about the marketing being able to bear four full orchestras from one developer than a new high priced one that is actually closer to being comprehensive.


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## José Herring (Dec 30, 2020)

Trash Panda said:


> My meager skills don’t do the song justice, but it’s almost 100% AR1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not a bad starting point. The whole orchestra to me always seems a little mid range heavy to me but I don't think it's anything that can't be fixed by using different mics positions. Did you use the main mix for this?


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## Trash Panda (Dec 30, 2020)

José Herring said:


> Not a bad starting point. The whole orchestra to me always seems a little mid range heavy to me but I don't think it's anything that can't be fixed by using different mics positions. Did you use the main mix for this?


Mix 1 on everything plus close mics for the horns. I just watched Paul’s video about using the mic options today, so might revisit it for some tweaking.


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## Russell Anderson (Dec 30, 2020)

José Herring said:


> Then somebody calculated that the entire package including AROOF would come in at under $1000


If you're referring to my post, that was a mistaken guess. However, ~$1,000 just for the Foundations + all of the Selections is pretty expectable. For the modular orchestra, over $2k, if not over $3-4k.


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