# Is Logic a good DAW for a beginner?



## Composer 2021 (May 5, 2021)

Logic looks like a nice DAW. I am new to DAW composing and using Cakewalk and Reaper has been challenging. I really like the interface of Logic - The different views make it seem really easy to keep track of every track, the automation lanes, and the piano roll (Cakewalk has a lot of clutter in the UI). Reaper is stuck in the past with almost every function being in a right click menu. Anyway, a lot of people on the Virtual Orchestration FB group are trying to convince me to go with a PC and to not get Logic. They said Logic is difficult to learn. One person said that because I like the UI, that I have fallen victim to the "Apple cult" or something. Are these assessments valid or are they being ridiculous?


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## el-bo (May 5, 2021)

Liking the UI is actually really important. It's the space you are going to be spending a lot of time in.

Logic, on the whole, is pretty scaleable in terms of features and potential. It won't take much to get started and it has everything you need to become a major part of your composing journey.


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## Traz (May 5, 2021)

Thats absolutely ridiculous. I'm a Cubase user myself but I used Logic previously and I can say that Logic is one of the easiest daws to learn and is definitely a good daw for a beginner all the way up to professional.

There are many great youtube channels that can help you with learning how to use logic, and you'll see how easy or simple logic makes things compared to other daws.


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## mallux (May 5, 2021)

If you're new to composing with (any) DAW then I suspect the answer is to just pick one and use it every day for a few months before splashing out, because you won't really know what's important to your creativity and productivity up front.

Fortunately, if (and it's a big IF) you already own a Mac then there is practically a zero barrier to entry with Logic. Looks like the 90 day free trial is still on, and by default it comes with all the advanced menu options hidden to make it easy for beginners. If that's too intimidating, don't underestimate GarageBand - which is fundamentally the same software, just stripped back to the essentials.


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## Scottyb (May 5, 2021)

100% agree! Logic is (to me) the best bang for the buck you can get. Tons of included content and also you buy it once and it’s yours. 199 and you can load it on as many systems of yours that you like. Plus no keys to worry about or registrations.


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## Scottyb (May 5, 2021)

Plus one other BIG plus It’s heavily optimized and runs circles around just about everything else on Mac. Performance is king especially if you’re using tons of virtual instruments!


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## Ozinga (May 5, 2021)

IMHO GUI is important as you will be looking at it for hours and that experience should be pleasant and not distracting. For me Logic is the best in this area.

It looks deceptively simple but comprising vast features. It is an amazing DAW that keeps things out of sight until you need them and it is relatively easy to learn. 

As in every DAW the more you know the key commands the easier everything gets. Lots of features are in key commands only, so if you get Logic it is better to study it thoroughly. To this day I am still finding new features through key commands. Get the 90 days trial and see how it goes.


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## José Herring (May 5, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> Logic looks like a nice DAW. I am new to DAW composing and using Cakewalk and Reaper has been challenging. I really like the interface of Logic - The different views make it seem really easy to keep track of every track, the automation lanes, and the piano roll (Cakewalk has a lot of clutter in the UI). Reaper is stuck in the past with almost every function being in a right click menu. Anyway, a lot of people on the Virtual Orchestration FB group are trying to convince me to go with a PC and to not get Logic. They said Logic is difficult to learn. One person said that because I like the UI, that I have fallen victim to the "Apple cult" or something. Are these assessments valid or are they being ridiculous?


Every DAW even since the dawn of the DAW is difficult to learn. There is no easy DAW. They are incredibly complex. One thing that makes them more difficult at least for Cubase is that the manuals have omitted Data that is crucial to learning it for the first time that use to be in older version but as time went on they pulled it out to make the manual less pages. I've literally had to go back to manuals from 2005 to find some things that I was having trouble with. And at this point anybody doing tutorials is less informed than I am which makes it even harder to continue to learn the DAW. 

The best thing to do if you are starting out is find a DAW that you like and learn it inside out. I often just open up a blank session and start hitting every button and menu item. If you are young then you can use that skill to be an assistant to a top composer and then launch into your own career as things get busy for your boss and you have to step in and help out with some actual composition. 

The most important thing is that you have to be able to sit there for hours and hours and hours day after day looking at this thing. When I was contemplating on whether to go with Mac OSX (yes I'm that old) and PC back in 2005 or so, I literally walked into a music store and they had Cbase SX3 on display and I saw Gui and the Mixer and I kind of got attached to it. It seem nice to look at. Not as Nice as Digital Performer which I was using at the time but the whole setup was like $5000 cheaper so I went PC and haven't moved back.


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## mscp (May 5, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> Logic looks like a nice DAW. I am new to DAW composing and using Cakewalk and Reaper has been challenging. I really like the interface of Logic - The different views make it seem really easy to keep track of every track, the automation lanes, and the piano roll (Cakewalk has a lot of clutter in the UI). Reaper is stuck in the past with almost every function being in a right click menu. Anyway, a lot of people on the Virtual Orchestration FB group are trying to convince me to go with a PC and to not get Logic. They said Logic is difficult to learn. One person said that because I like the UI, that I have fallen victim to the "Apple cult" or something. Are these assessments valid or are they being ridiculous?


Yes. Make sure you tick the option that says something like "I have never used Logic" (or something like that) when opening it for the first time. The great thing about Logic is that it's super straightforward.


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## Kent (May 5, 2021)

Makes you wonder who the real cult is.


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## Living Fossil (May 5, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> They said Logic is difficult to learn.



You can see the complexity of Logic being somehow "modular".

It offers an extreme amount of functions and possibilities.
However, you don't have to use them.

Getting started in Logic is quite easy.
As you get used to it, you can expand your scope within the program.


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## gst98 (May 5, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> Logic looks like a nice DAW. I am new to DAW composing and using Cakewalk and Reaper has been challenging. I really like the interface of Logic - The different views make it seem really easy to keep track of every track, the automation lanes, and the piano roll (Cakewalk has a lot of clutter in the UI). Reaper is stuck in the past with almost every function being in a right click menu. Anyway, a lot of people on the Virtual Orchestration FB group are trying to convince me to go with a PC and to not get Logic. They said Logic is difficult to learn. One person said that because I like the UI, that I have fallen victim to the "Apple cult" or something. Are these assessments valid or are they being ridiculous?


Do you have an iPad? One of the reasons Logic is easy to learn (that no other DAW does) is that The Logic Remote app can display the manual, and anytime you click or hover over a function, your iPad will update with the relevant section of the manual. It's very well done - can't imagine a better way to learn as a beginner. You can probably do this with your phone too.

Yes, DAWs are all complicated, but Logic is _probably_ the easiest to learn. Cubase and Logic are the most fully-featured DAWs, and out of the two logic is definitely much more 'logical'. Hardly surprising seeing as it is an Apple product.

Out of the FB groups, Virtual Orch is the one that often leaves me scratching my head. Whoever told you that is chatting utter sh*t. It's hard to take anyone seriously who said 'Apple Cult', they are probably a PC fanboy and are misleading you.

If you like the look of Cubase more, then learn that. PC's are generally less expensive (for now) other than some exceptions. Cubase and Logic are incredibly similar really, but I find logic more intuitive, most things are obvious and you don't need to look up the manual. Once you've learnt them though, there is much difference.

One thing to mention is if you don't have a really powerful machine, Logic is more efficient and you'll get more out of your hardware. Likewise, there are so nice-to-have in Cubase like the new stem exporting features and multiple CC lanes in the editor.


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## Composer 2021 (May 5, 2021)

I can hopefully use my phone for the Logic companion app. My iPad is far too old for app support (due for a new one soon).


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## jbuhler (May 5, 2021)

In addition to what everyone else has said, learning one DAW is hard, but learning a new DAW is not. So if you later decide that the workflow of another DAW suits you better, it's not that difficult to change. There's also not really a wrong DAW or wrong way of learning one, and when you are first learning it's very much choosing one that seems to make sense to you, and people you know who are using a particular DAW that you can ask questions of. Also sit through some introductory videos just to get a sense of how they work and then get trial versions to see if the workflow suits you.


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## Composer 2021 (May 5, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Liking the UI is actually really important. It's the space you are going to be spending a lot of time in.





Ozinga said:


> IMHO GUI is important as you will be looking at it for hours and that experience should be pleasant and not distracting. For me Logic is the best in this area.


Exactly what I have been thinking.


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## jcrosby (May 5, 2021)

You should just try Garage Band. It's built off of Logic, might as well be called Logic 'lite', and is completely free as long as you have a mac... Once upon a time the two were very different, now GB is more less less a stripped back version Logic, and even includes some of Logic's plugins. All the important stuff you'd need to demo and get familiar with is there and the UI is more or less the same...

As far as Logic being difficult to learn?

Either they're 50 or older, or they're basing their comment on once true urban legend.

The story goes like this...

Before Apple bought Logic it was owned by a company called Emagic. When Logic was owned by Emagic it was indeed considered one of the more difficult (if not the most difficult) DAWs to learn. Over the years Apple have completely overhauled Logic to be much more user friendly. It's still just as powerful and capable of the complicated stuff you could do in the original Emagic version, they just overhauled the UI, and especially as of version 10 they've made it easy to learn, widely adaptable to multiple types of musicians, but have not stripped any of its original power away under the hood...

I've used Logic for about 14 years now and I very much prefer Logic X over versions 8 and 9. I definitely had some apprehensions when I 1st saw the facelift it got in 10, thinking _oh great here comes the Final Cut edition of Logic_... But in the past 7+ years its features have grown exponentially, while generally being easy to keep up with as major new features are added...

(That's why I say over the age of 50... That would be the age group that remembers early versions of Logic. Also realize that this specific comment is NOT to be taken seriously... Being in my late 40s I remeber the shift, and ironically my 1st daw was Sonar 

While I was DAW shopping for the 1st time the sales rep specifically said I should avoid Logic because it had the 'steepest learning curve'. The point is that that was a very long time ago and Apple have managed to transform one of the most complicated DAWs of its day into one of the most accessible ones)....


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## Jett Hitt (May 5, 2021)

If you’re considering Logic, it means you have a Mac. I was a long time Cubase user who finally switched to Logic. I miss things about Cubase, but I don’t miss the crashing. Logic is made for the Mac by the people who make the Mac. Nothing is more stable on the Mac.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (May 5, 2021)

It can be a bit overwhelming at first. When I was starting out with it, I got the book for the Logic certification exam, and did all the lessons and it was a big help with getting acquainted with many of the functions. The book is a bit pricey, but I think it’s a great way to get up-and-running quickly and from there you are well-positioned to use YouTube tutorials to go as deep as you want. The book is also geared toward beginners so it’s easy to follow.





__





Logic Pro X 10.5 - Apple Pro Training Series: Professional Music Production | Peachpit


Record, arrange, mix, produce, and polish your audio files with this best-selling, Apple-certified guide to Logic Pro X 10.5. Veteran producer and composer David Nahmani uses step-by-step, project-based instructions and straightforward explanations to teach everything from basic music creation...




www.peachpit.com





I think Logic is great value and would highly recommend it.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 7, 2021)

Jett Hitt said:


> Logic is made for the Mac by the people who make the Mac. Nothing is more stable on the Mac.


^ this.


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## babylonwaves (May 7, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> In addition to what everyone else has said, learning one DAW is hard, but learning a new DAW is not.


totally true.


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## Loïc D (May 7, 2021)

User of Logic too here, former user of Cubase (on PC).
Logic is easy to get in and has plenty of room for complexity later with somehow a nice learning curve.
Cubase is harder at the beginning, has plenty of great functions but yes, is more unstable also.


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## A.G (May 7, 2021)

Living Fossil said:


> It offers an extreme amount of functions and possibilities.
> However, you don't have to use them.
> Getting started in Logic is quite easy.
> As you get used to it, you can expand your scope within the program.


I totally agree with that. If you are a beginner (or a middle level Logic user) you must learn only the features you need. 

Later you can update your skills. For example, if you want to lean the Logic environment completely you will need years. The same rule is valid for learning all advanced features, Logic stock synths and samplers etc.


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## anp27 (May 7, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> They said Logic is difficult to learn.


Logic in my opinion is one of the easiest and intuitive DAWs to learn. When you first boot it up it literally looks and behaves like Garageband. I think the real problem is that since Logic is Mac only you're not going to find as many tutorials about Logic on YouTube compared to the other DAWs.


Composer 2021 said:


> One person said that because I like the UI, that I have fallen victim to the "Apple cult" or something. Are these assessments valid or are they being ridiculous?


I've been called names too before but I really could care less. I love Apple's minimalistic and simplistic approach and feel to everything. When you're busy with deadlines or if you're trying to capture that idea the very last thing you need is the DAW to get in the way.


Living Fossil said:


> You can see the complexity of Logic being somehow "modular".
> 
> It offers an extreme amount of functions and possibilities.
> However, you don't have to use them.
> ...


This really sums everything up right here. I've always felt that Logic is as "easy" or "complex" as YOU want it to be. All the Advanced features are turned off when you first boot up Logic and it will look and feel like Garageband. As you progress and feel like you might want those advanced features all you need to do is switch them on.


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## gst98 (May 7, 2021)

anp27 said:


> Logic in my opinion is one of the easiest and intuitive DAWs to learn. When you first boot it up it literally looks and behaves like Garageband. I think the real problem is that since Logic is Mac only you're not going to find as many tutorials about Logic on YouTube compared to the other DAWs.
> 
> I've been called names too before but I really could care less. I love Apple's minimalistic and simplistic approach and feel to everything. When you're busy with deadlines or if you're trying to capture that idea the very last thing you need is the DAW to get in the way.
> 
> This really sums everything up right here. I've always felt that Logic is as "easy" or "complex" as YOU want it to be. All the Advanced features are turned off when you first boot up Logic and it will look and feel like Garageband. As you progress and feel like you might want those advanced features all you need to do is switch them on.


There is far more Logic content on youtube than Cubase for example. There is plenty of Abelton and Fl too though. Logic is _the_ DAW of choice in education - almost every school, college and university teaches on Logic - being Mac only hasn't been a problem there.


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## jcrosby (May 7, 2021)

gst98 said:


> There is far more Logic content on youtube than Cubase for example. There is plenty of Abelton and Fl too though. Logic is _the_ DAW of choice in education - almost every school, college and university teaches on Logic - being Mac only hasn't been a problem there.


Have to agree. Logic has an enormous amount of content.
Here are a few channels below of many...

_Dancetech_ in particular goes far beyond any video crash course there is. This guy literally does not skip over a single feature related to whatever it is he's explaining. Even though I've used Logic for 14 years I've almost always learned something new when I've found myself stumped and looked at one of his videos for some clarification... They're very thorough without being overwhelming...


Dancetech:


https://www.youtube.com/c/dancetech/search?query=logic



Why Logic Pro Rules:


https://www.youtube.com/c/WhyLogicProRules/videos





Some of Dancetech's Logic Playlists:


Logic 10.5.0:


Quicksampler:


Live Loops:


The Logic Step Sequencer:


The Logic Library:



Here's a particularly deep explanation about pretty much everything there is to know about Smart Controls:


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## Loïc D (May 8, 2021)

Oh also, Logic comes with a lot of excellent plugins, presets and loops which are very helpful for beginners.


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## EwigWanderer (May 8, 2021)

I moved to Logic just over a year ago. Before that I used Cubase from SX3 to 10.5. First in windows and then a short time in iMac. I've had a few crashes in Logic, but for some reason when I open a project after the crash there's nothing missing of what I had done before the crash. Recording midi-notes etc. I can't understand why that is? It's fantastic! Because with Cubase there were everything missing after the last automatic safe before the crash. So I'm extremely happy with Logic and especially the great articulation switching system from Babylonwaves.

Only two things that I'm not so happy about is the fact that I had a lot of presets to my various plugins made in vst-versions and there seem to be no solution to transfer those presets to AU-versions. Another great feature in Cubase is folder tracks (folder inside a folder that I'm not sure Logic has)


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## MexicanBreed (May 8, 2021)

If my 2 cents are worth anything... I'm a beginner as well. I'm a translator and the main software I use is PC only. Therefore, I had already invested in a laptop for it, online classes, etc. This helped me gravitate towards Reaper. In a sense, the fact that it is kind of stuck in the past is what helps it be so nimble. Also, I've grown fond of it because the customization it is capable of forced and helped me learn more about it. Now I'm starting to get comfortable with it and I like the GUI the way I've set it up. 


Having said that, if I had had a Mac, or if I even had to purchase a machine, I might go Apple (I'm one of those that don't like Apple at all) for Logic itself and Logic Remote. Oh, and using the track pad as a midi control surface? Genius. Using your iPad or iPhone for midi expression? I'm jealous. 

But I'm not willing to switch. In part, I can't afford it. I'll keep my 32gb laptop running Reaper, and create my control surface in Lemur. In retrospective, getting over the learning curve helped me immensely. 

But if I were starting from scratch, I think I'd opt for something easier. If that's you, I'd say Logic, and the peripherals that can be used with it make it far more valuable than the ridiculous price it costs.


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## SupremeFist (May 8, 2021)

MexicanBreed said:


> But if I were starting from scratch, I think I'd opt for something easier. If that's you, I'd say Logic, and the peripherals that can be used with it make it far more valuable than the ridiculous price it costs.


Also remember that Logic itself is insanely cheap (it's been $199 for ≈10 years iirc with regular massive updates for zero dollars). The Mac is the dongle!


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## Dewdman42 (May 8, 2021)

I think Logic has one of the nicest UI’s to look at I’m a huge fan. I think it is one of the easiest ones to learn and like others have said you could start with GarageBand first and evolve into logic. Logic is one of the least expensive daws also, excluding freebies and near freebies. It’s quite powerful and goes head to head with cubase, dp and other top of the market daws. I think it’s a great one to start with. Some advanced features can sometimes be cumbersome to figure out related to multi timbral synth handling, large templates, etc because logicpro is based on an older emagic environment object model which is not for the faint of heart; but the vast majority of Logic users hardly touch the environment. But every once in a while there will be some specific advanced requirement that can only be achieved by getting under th hood and then logicpro will seem more difficult then some other daws in that one particular thing. Overall, it has incredibly awesome GUI design though and it’s a good justification to own a mac


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## Tim_Wells (May 8, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> As far as Logic being difficult to learn?
> 
> Either they're 50 or older...


Or they're 49 or younger and think learning stuff is hard ...


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## river angler (May 8, 2021)

Both Cubase and Logic are the most popular (don't get me started on ProTools please!) - after all 30 years ago for those of us who are old enough to remember it was either Cubase or C-Lab Notator (which became Logic) on the 2/4mb RAM Atari ST! Yes! 4mb RAM! (there was only midi data back then!) However Logic has always been the more stable program partly because it was adopted more by Mac users and now of course is exclusively Mac.

You can dip your toes if you like with the free Garage Band program but I wouldn't bother if you're serious about composition especially if you're looking at it from a professional level.

Logic is at home with every genre of music from street beats to huge symphonic cinematic scoring both from a GUI workflow and sonic perspective. When starting out with few 3rd party plugins the library of instruments and ancillary tools that comes with it surpasses any other DAW's offerings. Even after time when you have accumulated a fair few libraries and FX you will find those that come with Logic very handy from time to time.

For those on a Mac it's simply the industry standard now at an unbeatable price.


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## MexicanBreed (May 8, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Also remember that Logic itself is insanely cheap (it's been $199 for ≈10 years iirc with regular massive updates for zero dollars). The Mac is the dongle!


I did say its price is ridiculous. 

Again, if I were immersed in the Mac environment I'd definitely go Logic. Since pcs are cheaper and I already need one for work, that's the road I chose.


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## SupremeFist (May 8, 2021)

MexicanBreed said:


> I did say its price is ridiculous.
> 
> Again, if I were immersed in the Mac environment I'd definitely go Logic. Since pcs are cheaper and I already need one for work, that's the road I chose.


Sure, makes sense. I used Cubase before I switched to Logic and that had its advantages too. Really the DAW wars are silly: they're basically all great and it comes down to what you are personally most comfortable with and what doesn't get in the way of your music for your particular workflow preferences.


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## el-bo (May 8, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> Have to agree. Logic has an enormous amount of content.
> Here are a few channels below of many...
> 
> _Dancetech_ in particular goes far beyond any video crash course there is. This guy literally does not skip over a single feature related to whatever it is he's explaining. Even though I've used Logic for 14 years I've almost always learned something new when I've found myself stumped and looked at one of his videos for some clarification... They're very thorough without being overwhelming...
> ...



Great recommendations! Also would add:


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## Trensharo (Jun 8, 2021)

SONAR's Skylight interface was basically designed to look like LP7, so it actually resembles LPX in many superficial ways. If you can't handle Cakewalk, you're not going to get much further with Logic. The interfaces are actually quite similar, IMO.

Make sure FOMO isn't a factor, and just commit to something. Pick one and sit on it for a while, months even. Because its easy to feel like you should be using something else when it really doesn't matter in reality.

If you want something a bit easier on Windows just get Studio One. 

Logic is expensive, because Apple robs you with Mac component upgrade prices. You aren't running it without a Mac - barring Hackintosh exceptions.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 8, 2021)

Trensharo said:


> Logic is expensive, because Apple robs you with Mac component upgrade prices.


Your “Logic” is flawed. I’ve gone eight years on the same Mac, running Logic, without any component upgrades (it still has at least a few more years as my mobile rig). I’m now on a new Mac, and it will last me at least another eight years.


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## gst98 (Jun 8, 2021)

Trensharo said:


> SONAR's Skylight interface was basically designed to look like LP7, so it actually resembles LPX in many superficial ways. If you can't handle Cakewalk, you're not going to get much further with Logic. The interfaces are actually quite similar, IMO.
> 
> Make sure FOMO isn't a factor, and just commit to something. Pick one and sit on it for a while, months even. Because its easy to feel like you should be using something else when it really doesn't matter in reality.
> 
> ...


Cubase costs almost as much as a mac mini


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## Trensharo (Jun 9, 2021)

$200 for 8gb RAM - goes without saying.

$400 for 768GB of Storage - I can buy a 2TB PCIe 4 NVMe Samsung Evo for less.

I think people are shorting out trying to comprehend what a component upgrade is.

Please try to not embarrass yourselves. The component upgrades for those macs are highway robbery, and there's no way to have a decent music production machine without taking some of them.

A base Mac Mini M1 has 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD. Just going to 16GB RAM will increase the price by $200.

And those machines don't ship with a display, or even a keyboard and mouse, so that's not even close to being comparable.

Logic can be cheap because they more than make it up selling those component upgrades to people who buy Macs.

I've used PCs for just as long, but they definitely started to feel old after about 4 years (laptops in particular). I upgrade laptops every 4 years now. Desktops I keep longer because I can upgrade more components (CPU, GPU, etc.). Keeping a Mac for 8 years doesn't say anything. I kept my last iMac for 6 years and by then I had already moved all of my production to a PC. Cause the Mac felt extremely slow compared to the new spec packages.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 10, 2021)

Trensharo said:


> Please try to not embarrass yourselves. The component upgrades for those macs are highway robbery, and there's no way to have a decent music production machine without taking some of them.


I’m not embarrassed 

For what it’s worth, my eight year old Mac is still a decent music production machine, not sure what you’re getting at. Can still work professionally with it.

Regarding Ram, the prices are the same for both Windows and Mac if you buy third party.


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## mscp (Jun 10, 2021)

Trensharo said:


> $200 for 8gb RAM - goes without saying.
> 
> $400 for 768GB of Storage - I can buy a 2TB PCIe 4 NVMe Samsung Evo for less.
> 
> ...


The reality is that some people pay the Apple tax for the plug and play convenience and how “pretty” MacOS is. That’s basically why I have them - plus I can run Video Slave with it (which is awesome). Others buy it simply because they just want to use Logic. Preference or lack of knowledge are the two major reasons.

Think of it as buying a desktop synth and a modular synth. Not everybody has the knowledge and/or can put up with the tech side of modular systems. They just want to turn it on, dial a preset and done.

Buy what you feel happy with. If it does what you need, and allows you to deliver the goods in a timely fashion, wicked! If not, sell it and switch.

I have both, but at this moment, PCs are way ahead of Macs in terms of performance. Not sure if it’s because of my builds or Windows 10 but it is what it is. Happy.


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## Nimrod7 (Jun 10, 2021)

Phil81 said:


> The reality is that some people pay the Apple tax for the plug and play convenience and how “pretty” MacOS is.


Even one hour troubleshooting something can cause a deadline to be missed, a customer to be dissatisfied, or a loss opportunity. Professionals tend to value that more than pure performance.

That's not just for the audio world, but for any professional out there.

For me personally, I am happy to pay twice or three times to have a reliable setup, and sometimes backups ready to go just in case, and I love to have also an inspiring setup, UI matters a lot, I feel home, and it's convinient, I look at it 15 hours a day, so it's worth it.

Performance is not everything, PC's are better value of money that's a fact, but they are not best in everything. You can adapt them to be suitable for anything that's for sure, but some people prefer to just having something that works for them to do their job.

My opinion is based on using PC's daily for over 16 years for 3D graphics (GPU renderers etc), which are best for, and software / music which Mac are great for.

Apologies to the OP for off-topic. 

Logic is an awesome DAW, easy to use, and tons of value in every upgrade. It has a 90 day trial, but even before that try Garageband, which is remarkably similar, but might be limiting for orchestral purposes. It's so natural to transition to Logic after that.


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 10, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Every DAW even since the dawn of the DAW is difficult to learn. There is no easy DAW. They are incredibly complex.


Completely agree with this. Pick a good one and learn it. Most of the major DAWs are good.


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## mscp (Jun 10, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> Even one hour troubleshooting something can cause a deadline to be missed, a customer to be dissatisfied, or a loss opportunity. Professionals tend to value that more than pure performance.
> 
> That's not just for the audio world, but for any professional out there.
> 
> ...


My PC is as reliable as my Macs. So is a lot of professionals’. My colleagues and I had never missed a deadline over troubleshooting our PCs/Macs. Silly thing to trash PCs over user experience trauma/factor. 

Yes, you have a preference. 😎 

As for Logic, I’ve already given him my 2 cents earlier.


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## pixelcrave (Jun 10, 2021)

My day job is a UX (user experience) designer, so I use both Mac and Windows at work and I'm pretty well versed on both because we have to use and test software on both systems. For personal use, I used to use PC, but have switched to Mac entirely now. Personally, I'll take a less "powerful" system when I don't have to deal with troubleshooting as much, and just focus on what I'm trying to do with the tool — that's just my case (it's just a tool, and I'm not going to the PC vs Mac debate).

Onto the original Logic question... I'm a beginner to the DAW composing world and just started a year ago when I first bought Logic. Like some said above, it's easier for me to learn from 0 without any prior experience with other DAWs. I just started making stuff to get acclimated with the UI & functions — referencing YouTube once in a while. It took about a couple of weeks to get my bearings, and after a month, some common keyboard shortcuts have become muscle memory for me. As others also said above, try Garage Band first. It's free — that should give you some ideas what you're getting into.

In my professional opinion as a UX designer, if you ARE currently having problems with your existing *workflow *(whether that's the DAW, tools or OS) that prevent you from focusing on your craft, then the UI may very well be one of the contributing factors that negatively impact your process. Only YOU know whether this is the case, or if you're just curious to try out another tool for the fun of it. What makes a software or tool great is when — despite its shortcomings, which all tools have — it still allows you (the user) to accomplish your goals and tasks effectively & efficiently (e.g., music making). That's your *workflow*, my friend. If you DO have a strong reason that necessitate a switch, I'm sure you're aware that you're really switching (i.e. adapting) to a new (yep, you guessed it...):* workflow. *That may or may not work better for YOU. I've done lots of switching with design tools myself. My personal takeaway with Logic: I like it enough and I can adapt nicely to its workflow (no major problem), so I will stick with it to focus on my craft.

Best of luck with your decision making. Cheers!


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 10, 2021)

PCs and Macs are good. Plenty of pros use both. No need to fear either one.


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## erodred (Jun 11, 2021)

I am still in the beginning stages, maybe less than a year of experience. I bought Cubase and it sort of sat for 2-3 years on my computer. Then I grabbed a Macbook and started using Logic Pro and VEP to a decent desktop. I found it was quite easy to figure out things. (Never got into articulation IDs or that sort of thing yet although I am interested in revisiting one day). It was super smooth. I had a weird GUI lag that I discovered was due to coupled VEP instance where Logic was autosaving and triggering the save of my VEP server(which then delayed everything for 10s or so). But the GUI was pretty and it ran really smooth otherwise. (Although bluetooth with MX mouse and keyboard.....)

I then made a move to Cubase on Windows a few months later since the Mac and my old desktop could be sold to build a more powerful machine. Cubase was straight forward to me. GUI was not bad from my eyes, although it looked a little "old" I felt it was quick to pick up, maybe because I already learned with Logic as others previously stated. However, Cubase was being buggy with me and crashing on a project and switched over to Studio One (making a profit essentially since Cubase was resold for more and I acquired a Crossgrade license). 

Studio One seems to scratch my head a lot since the placement of your mouse (top half vs bottom half) can have certain affects on midi editing and it honestly drives me nuts adjusting the curve sometimes. I also tried Reaper... forget about that one. I know people have success with it but it just feels like too much. A friend once said why build and program your own smart home system with raspberry pi and spend months troubleshooting it when you can just buy a google home or amazon echo and be done with it. Studio One GUI definitely looks newer but also oddly "boxy" which seems to counter the trend today with light colours and round edges. 

Since then, I think the cost of a Mac is worth it since I know they will go hand in hand and work well. With Applecare being as great as it is, it should last you for awhile as well. 

Apologize for long read, I just felt as a fellow beginner I can give you some insight!


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## InLight-Tone (Jun 12, 2021)

river angler said:


> Both Cubase and Logic are the most popular (don't get me started on ProTools please!) - after all 30 years ago for those of us who are old enough to remember it was either Cubase or C-Lab Notator (which became Logic) on the 2/4mb RAM Atari ST! Yes! 4mb RAM! (there was only midi data back then!)


What about Bars & Pipes on the Amiga 500?!?


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## Kent (Jun 12, 2021)

Phil81 said:


> The reality is that some people pay the Apple tax for the plug and play convenience and how “pretty” MacOS is. That’s basically why I have them - plus I can run Video Slave with it (which is awesome). Others buy it simply because they just want to use Logic. Preference or lack of knowledge are the two major reasons.
> 
> Think of it as buying a desktop synth and a modular synth. Not everybody has the knowledge and/or can put up with the tech side of modular systems. They just want to turn it on, dial a preset and done.
> 
> ...


I guess it depends on how you define performance. I couldn’t leave my Unix playground, or the Logic Environment. Both are the most powerful tools in their fields that I know of…but, certainly, not everybody knows or cares about either.


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## el-bo (Jun 12, 2021)

Trensharo said:


> Logic can be cheap because they more than make it up selling those component upgrades to people who buy Macs.


But this misses the fact that a 200 quid investment is Logic, in 2014, has been updated for free ever since.

And just as a reference for money I've spent on that 'Apple Tax':

I bought my 2012 Macbook Pro in 2014, for 1000 pounds. Add on the 200 for Logic, and the ssd drives and memory that I bought to upgrade and my total investment for seven years (and counting) of Apple and Logic runs to about 1700 pounds (Under 250 pounds, per year). It would still be great value had i bought the Mac new.

The previous Macbook Pro I owned was bought new in 2007, for 1900 pounds (It actually worked out cheaper and more powerful than the INTA-Audio laptop I had been spec'ing out). I bought Logic 7 for 350, and paid 200 for each of the following upgrades (8 & 9). Taking into account the added RAM i later installed and upgrading the drives, that still came in at under 3k for 7 years of solid use. And it would've likely lasted even longer, but for a cat with very wet paws sitting on the keyboard and , I assume, frying the Logic-board :(

In total, I have had over 14 years of Mac hardware and Logic software usage, all for under 5k, bringing the rough average to around 350 pounds, per year, which is less than many spend yearly to update their DAW.


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## PaulieDC (Jun 12, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> Logic looks like a nice DAW. I am new to DAW composing and using Cakewalk and Reaper has been challenging. I really like the interface of Logic - The different views make it seem really easy to keep track of every track, the automation lanes, and the piano roll (Cakewalk has a lot of clutter in the UI). Reaper is stuck in the past with almost every function being in a right click menu. Anyway, a lot of people on the Virtual Orchestration FB group are trying to convince me to go with a PC and to not get Logic. They said Logic is difficult to learn. One person said that because I like the UI, that I have fallen victim to the "Apple cult" or something. Are these assessments valid or are they being ridiculous?


If you want to compose and you have a Mac, logic is a no-brainer. The price alone is great, regardless of what any other meatball says, a good user interface is important, and Apple stays on top of that. More importantly, you have major players in this industry using logic, your support base is enormous. Studio one is also very easy to use and comes with a built-in mastering section. When they do their sales the price is comparable to logic. But when you can buy a DAW that comes from the same company who makes your hardware and your operating system, doesn’t require a dongle and doesn’t cost 500 bucks, I say go for logic.

FWIW, I’m a Cubase guy on windows, so there’s no bias in my answer. 😀


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## mscp (Jun 12, 2021)

kmaster said:


> I guess it depends on how you define performance. I couldn’t leave my Unix playground, or the Logic Environment. Both are the most powerful tools in their fields that I know of…but, certainly, not everybody knows or cares about either.


In my case, performance comes down to speed and stability, which is something that as shocking as it may sound to some, were found on Windows to be better. Not saying Mac is not stable (I own a Mac Pro), but it’s just not as responsive, snappy, as W10. And I love the fact the updates haven’t really broken any of my apps for years - unlike in MacOS that forces companies to update their software every single year to work with their “new” OS. And if you don’t comply, you stay behind security updates. total bollocks.

But yes, if the user is on Logic and likes it, there’s no other way. I like to remain OS agnostic when using DAWs so I can jump ship if the OS I’m using starts to cause me headaches. For that reason, I always recommend Cubase and Pro Tools. Although I have to say, Logic is amazing as well.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 12, 2021)

el-bo said:


> But this misses the fact that a 200 quid investment is Logic, in 2014, has been updated for free ever since.
> 
> And just as a reference for money I've spent on that 'Apple Tax':
> 
> ...


This, exactly. I don’t understand why people can’t understand this.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 12, 2021)

Phil81 said:


> In my case, performance comes down to speed and stability, which is something that as shocking as it may sound to some, were found on Windows to be better. Not saying Mac is not stable (I own a Mac Pro), but it’s just not as responsive, snappy, as W10. And I love the fact the updates haven’t really broken any of my apps for years - unlike in MacOS that forces companies to update their software every single year to work with their “new” OS. And if you don’t comply, you stay behind security updates. total bollocks.
> 
> But yes, if the user is on Logic and likes it, there’s no other way. I like to remain OS agnostic when using DAWs so I can jump ship if the OS I’m using starts to cause me headaches. For that reason, I always recommend Cubase and Pro Tools. Although I have to say, Logic is amazing as well.


I’ve got to ask…if you’re so in favour of Windows (as noted in many of your posts) why don’t you just sell all of your Mac stuff and go all-in? There must be a compelling reason.


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## Traz (Jun 12, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I’ve got to ask…if you’re so in favour of Windows (as noted in many of your posts) why don’t you just sell all of your Mac stuff and go all-in? There must be a compelling reason.


I assume for this reason: 


Phil81 said:


> I like to remain OS agnostic when using DAWs so I can jump ship if the OS I’m using starts to cause me headaches.


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## mscp (Jun 12, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I’ve got to ask…if you’re so in favour of Windows (as noted in many of your posts) why don’t you just sell all of your Mac stuff and go all-in? There must be a compelling reason.


Sure. Because I use some things that are Mac only, especially some custom made plugins that are AU only. I also need both because I have clients who prefer one or the other. Both very compelling reasons for me.

I don’t hate Macs. In fact, I’m waiting to see whether the next M processors will beat Intels, and how great or petty they will be with their new Mac Pro’s upgradability. 

I like both. But yes, at the moment, PCs are for me better. Could Apple change that? 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## stonzthro (Jun 12, 2021)

To answer the question, yes, it is.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 12, 2021)

Phil81 said:


> I also need both because I have clients who prefer one or the other.


You mean for aesthetics? It reminds me of the time a client came into my studio and was shocked that I wasn't using Pro Tools! He said only professionals use PT, and there's no way I could possibly score his project otherwise.


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## mscp (Jun 12, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> You mean for aesthetics? It reminds me of the time a client came into my studio and was shocked that I wasn't using Pro Tools! He said only professionals use PT, and there's no way I could possibly score his project otherwise.


For all sorts of reasons. Some people are simply allergic to Windows, some hate the fact CMD is actually CTRL on Win10 PT and that alone do their head in, some can’t stand deliverables on anything other than Logic (because they don’t understand how OMF works), …

it varies really…


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