# Cine Hamlisch Scoring Contest



## chibear

Registration is open. This year we'll have a choice of 3 videos to score. Videos available Dec 17. Last year's was fun.

https://cine.org/hamlischcontest/


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## samy

This looks great. Do you know if the videos will also be available without registration?


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## mmendez

Cool. Very interested in this one!

Miguel


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## resound

Registered  Thanks for sharing!


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## Ollie

So you pay $40 to enter?


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## Lassi Tani

Yes 40 dollars. I'll just say that you don't have any chances in winning, because I've registered too.


Just kidding!  I entered last year too, and wasn't even close to winning :D. Anyway it's a fun learning experience.


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## Guffy

You have to be enrolled in a school program?


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## Lassi Tani

Fugdup said:


> You have to be enrolled in a school program?



This: To be eligible, composers must be enrolled in a school program AND/OR have received less than $10,000 (US) in combined creative/production/package fees, excluding academic scholarships, in the two years preceding the competition.


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## valyogennoff

Fugdup said:


> You have to be enrolled in a school program?


Anyone may register as long as he or she hasn’t received $10,000 in combined creative/production/package fees within the previous two years. You are not required to be a student.


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## resound

Videos are up for download!


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## chillbot

Ollie said:


> So you pay $40 to enter?



If any of you honestly can't afford the entrance fee and really want to enter hit me up via PM.


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## XiphiasAudio

chillbot said:


> If any of you honestly can't afford the entrance fee and really want to enter hit me up via PM.



What a kind and generous fellow!

I'll be entering as this is such a great opportunity to get some publicity xD
The prize package isn't the most amazing thing I've ever seen (mainly because I use Sibelius ).
Good luck everyone!


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## chillbot

I am sponsoring 2 people into this and would sponsor another 2 if anyone honestly can't afford to enter (not just looking to save forty bucks), hit me up. I contacted Cine and they like this idea are happy to help, I will be sending the entrance fee directly to them. Not that anyone on here would SAY they were going to enter and then use the forty bucks to buy samples or something, I know no one would do that!


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## XiphiasAudio

I've just registered. The film's look great! Do we do both or are we able to choose just one to score?


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## Soundhound

I think you can only enter one as a submission. They said you're free to score both, but I think that just meant as practice, interest etc? The films are terrific. Working on the 8 camera one for starters. Really fun.


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## ag75

The films are really great this year! I am excited to get started.


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## Jerome Vonhogen

XiphiasAudio said:


> I've just registered. The film's look great! Do we do both or are we able to choose just one to score?




According to the FAQs, you may submit more than one score, but each score must be accompanied by a separate registration and fee.

I assume this means that for your second score you can choose the other movie, as long as there is a separate registration + payment.

Does anyone know if the fee can only be payed by credit card, or is there an alternative way, like payment via PayPal?

- Jerome Vonhögen


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## Jerome Vonhogen

ag75 said:


> The films are really great this year! I am excited to get started.




Are you allowed to tell us what genre these movies are? (Like: comedy, thriller, romance, animation, adventure, SciFi.) I just want to make sure it's not some low-budget horror movie, cheap mocap 3D-SciFi, or humorless student Pixar imitation, because that would be such a waste of time and energy.

- Jerome Vonhögen


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## ag75

The first film is a cute animation love story and the second is a Fellini-like performance art-like piece.


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## Lassi Tani

Jerome Vonhogen said:


> Are you allowed to tell us what genre these movies are? (Like: comedy, thriller, romance, animation, adventure, SciFi.) I just want to make sure it's not some low-budget horror movie, cheap mocap 3D-SciFi, or humorless student Pixar imitation, because that would be such a waste of time and energy.
> - Jerome Vonhögen



In my opinion the animation is high quality, and has a fun story. Would be cool to make music for that. The second one is very artistic :D.


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## Jerome Vonhogen

Thanks guys, that sounds very interesting!

I still have a question though. I read in the FAQ section of the website that you can use real musicians and record their performance, but there is also a note saying that it has to be your own mix.

What if a candidate would book a full orchestra for a recording session, would he be allowed to record his score in a studio where there's always a bunch of people taking care of elementary things like the mic levels, Protools, basic mixdown?

In other words, how is a composer who wants to record his score with live musicians in a studio, supposed to create his own mix, if the studio and the musicians can only be booked with a minimum number of technicians working alongside the composer for the basic stuff?

Does anyone know?

- Jerome Vonhögen


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## XiphiasAudio

I would honestly say that if a composer has the ability to hire a whole orchestra for a recording session, they would not be classified as "An emerging composer/student composers."

I think they are basically saying that you should be doing as much of the work as possible and not hiring people to do your work and taking the credit


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## P.N.

Isn't the contest only for under 18 composers?


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## XiphiasAudio

P.N. said:


> Isn't the contest only for under 18 composers?



Nope, but you can't have had $10'000 in the past two years in grants/commissions.


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## P.N.

XiphiasAudio said:


> Nope, but you can't have had $10'000 in the past two years in grants/commissions.


No problem there! 
Really nice prizes...


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## Leo Badinella

In entered last year's Marvin Hamlischt competition and I can say it is a great experience, if only to read the judge's review of your entry.
I hope I can register in time.


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## Jerome Vonhogen

Does anyone know why there isn't any payment info on the Cine.org website?

It seems the only way you can pay the entry fee is by credit card. Could anyone confirm this? I've been using PayPal since the service was launched many years ago, so I'd prefer using that payment method instead of a credit card.

Shouldn't emerging composers stay away from credit cards, loans, and other financially risky stuff? I thought the first thing any emerging film music composer needs to learn, is that in the film industry you'll never have enough money anyway. 

- Jerome Vonhögen


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## P.N.

If i undestood correctly, we have to pay the fee until January 15th, but we have until March to actually upload the piece, right?


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## GULL

Jerome Vonhogen said:


> Does anyone know why there isn't any payment info on the Cine.org website?
> 
> It seems the only way you can pay the entry fee is by credit card. Could anyone confirm this? I've been using PayPal since the service was launched many years ago, so I'd prefer using that payment method instead of a credit card.
> 
> Shouldn't emerging composers stay away from credit cards, loans, and other financially risky stuff? I thought the first thing any emerging film music composer needs to learn, is that in the film industry you'll never have enough money anyway.
> 
> - Jerome Vonhögen


Yes. You can paypal. You need to send a mail to info @ cine. org (requesting invoice).


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## GULL

P.N. said:


> If i undestood correctly, we have to pay the fee until January 15th, but we have until March to actually upload the piece, right?


Yes


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## Jerome Vonhogen

GULL said:


> Yes. You can paypal. You need to send a mail to info @ cine. org (requesting invoice).


 

Thanks! 

- Jerome Vonhögen


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## mwarsell

Anyone made it to the final?

I didn't. My avg score was 84.75. You can view your score at the Cine website.


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## P.N.

I didn't.


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## chibear

Nope. I tanked lol. One of the judges _really_ hated my work.


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## XiphiasAudio

Haha wow that sucks chibear!

I got 81.00. I think Im happy as the average was around 74 or something.

Makes me feel special that I was above average haha xD

Anyone get to the top 10%?


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## resound

I only got 70. One guy had good things to say while the other guy didn't really seem to care for it, so I wonder how much their scores differed...


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## Jdiggity1

They offer a score now? That's cool... i think.


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## mwarsell

The average of all scores was 71.33.

First I thought that the score I got 84.75 was MY score but then I realized it was the average of that top 30% group.

Meh...I wanted to know MY score. Not a score of some percentile group.


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## Jetzer

chibear said:


> Nope. I tanked lol. One of the judges _really_ hated my work.



Probably means you did _something_ right...


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## mwarsell

I'm still amazed at how differently the two reviewers I had saw my score. First one couldn't find anything wrong with it, complimented it in myriad ways while the second one's negative feedback was four times the length of the positive. Weird stuff.


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## Lassi Tani

mwarsell said:


> I'm still amazed at how differently the two reviewers I had saw my score. First one couldn't find anything wrong with it, complimented it in myriad ways while the second one's negative feedback was four times the length of the positive. Weird stuff.



Same with me last year :D. Two differing reviews. Weird.


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## chibear

It would be an interesting exercise to post our entries with the provided comments when CINE says it's OK at the end of the month. Don't know if this or the 'composition' forum would be the proper place.


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## Jdiggity1

Didn't get to enter this year, but last year I remember my feedback being a tad perplexing also.
My 'opening sequence' was described as being the best executed they had seen, but it obviously wasn't good enough to get shortlisted.
It must have been because "my melodic theme wasn't fully developed until the very end". Uh... yeah....


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## resound

I wish I got more detailed feedback. The comments I received were very brief. Especially the guy who didn't like it, his comments weren't very helpful.


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## PeterBaumann

Mine was described in one word as 'sonic' (as a compliment) by one reviewer... no idea what that means!


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## resound

PeterBaumann said:


> Mine was described in one word as 'sonic' (as a compliment) by one reviewer... no idea what that means!


sonic - of or relating to sound, sound waves, or the speed of sound

I guess that's pretty accurate...


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## mmendez

Just checked my feedback. They liked the themes and the orchestration but according to them I should have mickey moused a lot more. Chose the animated clip. I'm quite happy with the results considering I went from a white page in Sibelius to a mixed score in one day. I will definitely not do that next year and give myself ample time to work on the piece.

Miguel


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## mwarsell

Lol @ 'sonic'.

Extremely helpful.


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## XiphiasAudio

When are we able to see the finalists scores?

I think I got better feedback than most 
Judge said I need more compression and to balance the instrumentation more. Which I agree :D
Better than "sonic" though.

Reminds me of taxi returns criticism....


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## tonaliszt

I did make it to the finals (under 18 division). It was a lot of fun writing this score. I got to try out a lot new techniques, both compositionally and production-wise (first time I ever recorded a live instrument to mix into the music). 

Congrats to @Lawson. for making it to the finals as well. I know I have some top-notch competition.


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## newtonbach

I got some great constructive feedback on my submission from 1 and 2 but number 3 was a little too brief to be of any use. Turned out I was in the top 10 percent, but unfortunately not in the finals. Congrats to all those who entered the finals and to the winners!


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## spaunsam7

I too entered this competition but did not win. Apparently my score was too over the top and bombastic for an animation to one judge and the other one simply said it didn't have enough electronics but I had a lot of fun scoring it and will use the feedback for my future projects. Here is what I submitted.


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## DynamicK

spaunsam7 said:


> I too entered this competition but did not win. I submitted.


I actually prefer your version to the actual version used on the animation. Just out of interest...the video they gave you to score for the contest....did it have any of the Foley or Sound FX in it? Without those I don't really see how it would be a real representation of a scoring job. Just my tuppence....


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## PeterBaumann

DynamicK said:


> I actually prefer your version to the actual version used on the animation. Just out of interest...the video they gave you to score for the contest....did it have any of the Foley or Sound FX in it? Without those I don't really see how it would be a real representation of a scoring job. Just my tuppence....



The clip had absolutely no audio on it when they gave it to us


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## samy

spaunsam7 said:


> I too entered this competition but did not win. Apparently my score was too over the top and bombastic for an animation to one judge and the other one simply said it didn't have enough electronics but I had a lot of fun scoring it and will use the feedback for my future projects. Here is what I submitted.




I think you did a really good job with it. Keep up that good work!


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## N.Caffrey

spaunsam7 said:


> I too entered this competition but did not win. Apparently my score was too over the top and bombastic for an animation to one judge and the other one simply said it didn't have enough electronics but I had a lot of fun scoring it and will use the feedback for my future projects. Here is what I submitted.




I've personally enjoyed it and I think you did a very good job. I don't agree with what the judges said, at all. Specially the electronic one, seems a stupid comment to me


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## spaunsam7

Thank you guys so much for the compliments and yeah I know it sucks  It's ironic too because almost every project I work on now a days ends up being 95% synth/sound design. With this competition I wanted to do something different by utilizing my jazz background, a lot of Mike Verta's theme/motif techniques and do a full orchestral score with development but it is what it is. Cheers!


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## wpc982

Nice job spaunsam7 .. first impression, maybe your introductory music kept too much to its own track, as if it had been composed long ago and simply placed onto the animation, with highlights added that matched some of the action in the video.


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## bbunker

spaunsam7 said:


> I too entered this competition but did not win. Apparently my score was too over the top and bombastic for an animation to one judge and the other one simply said it didn't have enough electronics...



Hey Spaunsam7,

I think that comments about having or not having any element (electronics, orchestral instruments, didgeridoo, whatever) are completely inappropriate to this sort of competition. You can say as a judge that certain elements didn't work, and recommend places where those could be replaced with alternatives, but saying it 'needs more electronics' is just another way of saying 'I would have used more electronics personally.' It shows that the judge isn't suited to judge composition - the point is not to assess how close competitors come to your personal ideas about the work, but to assess how well they take you for a ride on the story that THEY are telling. I would promptly write off that comment as having absolutely no value to you.

I thought there were lots of really great stuff in yours. Where I felt the most let down is in some of the transitions - the ending sequence with them launching in the air is one, where the drama kind of explodes there for a second and they go from ecstacy to dilemma, and you stop the music for a second before going into your 'ice cream cart in the air/umbrella' sequence. It feels like you're holding the story firmly on that ride down the hill and then suddenly you let go before picking it up - and in that moment I lose my immersion and don't follow you with the same zest I would have had if you hadn't let go!


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## PeterBaumann

Does anyone know when we're officially able to upload the scores? I seem to remember in an email that we weren't supposed to until a certain point. Love to get some decent feedback from people on here rather than 'sonic' ha


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## resound

PeterBaumann said:


> Does anyone know when we're officially able to upload the scores? I seem to remember in an email that we weren't supposed to until a certain point. Love to get some decent feedback from people on here rather than 'sonic' ha


Same here, I'd like to post my score here for feedback but I believe they were going to send us an email to let us know when it was ok to post our scores publicly.


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## spaunsam7

Thanks for all the feedback. Everything Im reading here has been a million times more helpful than what the judges wrote to me. The storytelling was definitely what i struggled with the most and I agree with what most of you have said in that area. I know that on other projects Ive always relied on a spotting session and directors notes but not having that on this made it somewhat difficult. Anyways thank you all for the feedback so far because it will help me for future projects.

Sam


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## valyogennoff

My first review was VERY positive and it was the longest and the most detailed. However, the third one had several very strange statements that almost make me think it was some sort of a template answer. Not 100% sure, though, but almost.


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## PeterBaumann

I could have sworn I only had 2 bits of feedback - did everyone else get 3?


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## valyogennoff

PeterBaumann said:


> I could have sworn I only had 2 bits of feedback - did everyone else get 3?


Mine were definitely three. I can post them together with the score if we're already allowed.


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## PeterBaumann

I think the threat was to disqualify if they were put online before they were allowed, but not sure that's very relevant any more!


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## valyogennoff

PeterBaumann said:


> I think the threat was to disqualify if they were put online before they were allowed, but not sure that's very relevant any more!


Well, I'm on the phone now but I'll share them when I get back home.


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## spaunsam7

I only got 2 feedbacks


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## XiphiasAudio

I got one (-_-) not complaining though. Great competition. Will go again next year


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## PeterBaumann

XiphiasAudio said:


> I got one (-_-) not complaining though. Great competition. Will go again next year


Absolutely, well worth the money just for the experience of scoring an animation


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## valyogennoff

This is my score:


And my reviews:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qtqbegeyog1c826/cine-hamlisch.pdf?dl=0


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## valyogennoff

spaunsam7 said:


> I too entered this competition but did not win. Apparently my score was too over the top and bombastic for an animation to one judge and the other one simply said it didn't have enough electronics but I had a lot of fun scoring it and will use the feedback for my future projects. Here is what I submitted.


An awesome orchestration, Samuel. Congratulations! I enjoyed it a lot. You represent very well the emotions and the story musically.


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## PeterBaumann

spaunsam7 said:


> I too entered this competition but did not win. Apparently my score was too over the top and bombastic for an animation to one judge and the other one simply said it didn't have enough electronics but I had a lot of fun scoring it and will use the feedback for my future projects. Here is what I submitted.



Do you know what % band this was put in. It's very good!


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## wpc982

Yours sounded good too, Valyogennoff Maybe produced so that everything was too loud .. I had to keep turning the volume down. But lots of good ideas.


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## valyogennoff

wpc982 said:


> Yours sounded good too, Valyogennoff Maybe produced so that everything was too loud .. I had to keep turning the volume down. But lots of good ideas.


Thanks a lot!!! I appreciate it!


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## mwarsell

Are the winners out?


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## PeterBaumann

No they delayed it for some reason - it was supposed to be June 1st but I think they're supposed to be announced today. They didn't send out the results until about 9pm UK for the non-finalists, or at least that's when I got mine.


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## Lawson.

Well guys, I seem to have won the Youth division! A big congrats to everyone who participated, and a shout-out to @n.h for getting a runner-up spot.


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## PeterBaumann

Lawson. said:


> Well guys, I seem to have won! A big congrats to everyone who participated, and a shout-out to @n.h for getting a runner-up spot.



Congrats Lawson! Here's mine  I present the 'sonic' score for the animation


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## bbunker

Congrats, Lawson! Lots of fun stuff to listen to. Interesting way you played the traffic sequence, too!

I'm digging comparing how people approached the same material, so here's mine for comparison:

Just as a warning, it's pretty loud right from the beginning.


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## valyogennoff

Lawson. said:


> Well guys, I seem to have won the Youth division! A big congrats to everyone who participated, and a shout-out to @n.h for getting a runner-up spot.


Congrats, Lawson! Very beautiful! Well done!


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## resound

Congrats to the winners! Here is my score:


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## tonaliszt

Lawson. said:


> a shout-out to @n.h for getting a runner-up spot.


Thank you and congratulations! Here is my 2cd runner-up youth division score (Fun fact: no true legato in this one!): 
I was surprised at how many people went with "quirky" (ala trombone gliss) type music for the cartoon. Mine is in a more traditional orchestral style. Seeing lawson's really showed how I missed many things emotionally. I get too caught up on writing the music, I forget I have to really carefully analyze the film first. I still like my tune better though(sorry Lawson). Looking forward to next years competition.


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## chibear

Congrats to the winners. I've already learned a lot from listening to all the submissions. Here's mine:


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## Jdiggity1

Lawson. said:


> Well guys, I seem to have won the Youth division! A big congrats to everyone who participated, and a shout-out to @n.h for getting a runner-up spot.



Well done mate. You've clearly got a 'knack' for this sort of scoring.


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## milesito

Nice work all. Very interesting to see so many great approaches. 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vYluu6hNRM4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## spaunsam7

Wow just listened all of these submissions and I must say that I really really enjoyed every single one of them. Every composer has their own unique voice and approach so it's actually very exciting for me to watch and listen to all of these scores. In my eyes there is no wrong or right way of scoring this, just a matter of taste and interpretation. Awesome!!


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## Soundhound

Wonderful stuff, congrats to everybody and hats off to the winners! I did both of the films, but only entered the animated one, having forgotten you could enter both if you register twice. Ah, well... Here's both, would love to hear any feedback!


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## newtonbach

Lots of really interesting submissions, great work everyone! Here's my entry


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## David Stiles

Thanks for posting your scores, everyone! I entered the contest as well, and frankly, by the time I was finished with mine, I was getting sick of watching the film. But watching all of your interesting approaches has revitalized it for me! It's interesting seeing the different choices people made in reacting to all of the emotional and action cues.

And Lawson... great job, man! A well deserved victory.

Anyhow, here's my entry, as my contribution to the list of entries for comparison:


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## mwarsell

Here's mine:



key:
flute: Lou
bassoon: Jenkins
snare drum: the umbrella



I have started listening to your folks' works. Amazing stuff! Will continue and give proper feedback as I find the time for it. What an intriguing thing to compare these.


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## mwarsell

Btw did you notice that the winner of the Emerging category ripped off a Christmas song (Sleigh Ride) for his theme? Knowingly or unknowingly.

Listen to the winner here:

https://cine.org/hamlischcontest/#learn-more

and then Sleigh Ride


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## danielb

WOooOtt glad to share my score ! i'm 1st runner up !   i can't believe i went so far, i did it more as an excercice and to improve my portfolio... it was hard to finished... bravo to everyone


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## mwarsell

Daniel, absolutely brilliant score! Loved it! Preferred yours to the winner. You are so good! Btw I also love gypsy jazz. It's so relaxing, trying to learn to play that now.


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## danielb

Hey thank you very much ! Well i think the winner has done a real orchestra performance, the composition is very rich and much more 'orchestral', don't know what tools he used but it sounds great  
It was funny because at a point i was totally blocked i couldn't find what to do (when they are in the caddy), tried several stuff, erase etc.. then i tried a gypsy jazz rythm and found it perfect .. mmm & yes i'm a huge gypsy jazz addict.. have a look here   

Have fun


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## danielb

oups back to topic ! here's my 1man8cams score !!! had a lot of fun doing it also !!


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## mwarsell

Nice, Daniel! If I need a gypsy jazz guitarist for a project, I'll contact you immediately!


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## Soundhound

Pick it, Wilson! 



danielb said:


> Hey thank you very much ! Well i think the winner has done a real orchestra performance, the composition is very rich and much more 'orchestral', don't know what tools he used but it sounds great
> It was funny because at a point i was totally blocked i couldn't find what to do (when they are in the caddy), tried several stuff, erase etc.. then i tried a gypsy jazz rythm and found it perfect .. mmm & yes i'm a huge gypsy jazz addict.. have a look here
> 
> Have fun


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## moojisoul

I'd like to share my submission


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