# SIPS: DFD vs. sampler



## hbuus (May 29, 2008)

First of all, I'm grateful for having access to the SIPS-script. What a difference it makes in legato-lines!

And now to the question:

Whenever I use DFD instead of sampler, i.e. whenever I do not load the instrument fully into memory, there is a difference in the resulting sound when using SIPS. With DFD, it's like the first note is cut off a little too early at the transition between two notes. Hope that makes sense, it's the best way I can explain it!

Am I doing something wrong? Or does SIPS require you to not use DFD?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Henrik


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## Nickie Fønshauge (May 29, 2008)

Hi Henrik,

I am not sure SIPS works in DFD mode. I seem to remember, that Bob (the creator of SIPS) offsets the samples beyond the attack part to create a convincing legato transition, and that (offsetting) only works in Sampler mode. Hopefully Bob can chime in with more knowledgeable info about it.


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## hbuus (May 30, 2008)

Ok, thanks Nickie. - Btw. it's good to see a fellow Dane in here! o-[][]-o


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## Big Bob (May 30, 2008)

> Am I doing something wrong? Or does SIPS require you to not use DFD?



Hi Henrik,

Unfortunately, you are absolutely right about a difference in sound between Sampler Mode and DFD modes. The reason for this is that K2 only allows scripts to start a sample late when in Sampler mode. And, this sample-start offset is an important factor in synthesizing a good legato sound. But, unfortunately, sample-start offset is *ignored in DFD mode*. If you are using SIPS V151, you will find a short discussion of this on page 18, the 4th paragraph down in the User's Guide.

We were all hoping that K3 was going to correct this deficiency and for a while (before we got our hands on it), it was beginning to look like NI did address the issue. But, the actual changes they made in this area are far short of the mark.

However, I have some good news for you. SIPS 2 (in beta testing) has some powerful support for running in DFD mode. When set to the new DFD Offset mode, all 'inside notes' of legato phrases can be automatically directed to a different set of 'DFD groups'. These groups can be rather easily made by cloning the normal groups and then editing off the attack portion of the samples. So, you can first run the instrument in Sampler mode to find the best sample-start-offset value and then, create a set of DFD groups. The bottom line is that with just a little bit of effort you can get the same quality sound in DFD mode as in Sampler mode.

I'm currently revising the Manual for SIPS 2 and should be done with that in about a week or so. Then, allow another week or so for my beta test crew to 'beat on it' and hopefully SIPS 2 will then be available. So, hang in there, good things are in the works 8) .

God Bless,

Bob


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## hbuus (May 30, 2008)

Hi Bob,

Ah yes, I have found the section in the User's Guide. I did print the guide a while back but must admit I have not looked very much at it - it looks very complicated to me. I'm using Sonivox Symphonic Collection and they have been kind enough to supply presets for their instruments for SIPS, so I'm just using those, however with an updated version of SIPS (V151 now, compared to V110 which was supplied with Sonivox)

Would other people maybe have an interest in having access to presets based on the Sonivox' values, do you think? I'm thinking it might be a useful 2nd starting point besides the current presets, so that the user has two options for i.e. Oboe, namely the current preset, but also the Sonivox preset. What do you think? I'd be happy to write down the values in any form you need for them to be included as presets. I suppose there is no copyright issue on such values.

SIPS 2 sounds interesting, I'm looking forward to trying it out. I hope it's not too complex for a user such as me.

Would it be a lot of work to have legato be toggled on/off via a keyswitch as well as via the current way, i.e. via note length?

(Sorry for asking a question about functionality, I suspect you and the "crash pilots" have your hands full with just getting the current functionality tested and described in the manual and so on!)

Thanks again, also for your generousity, it is very kind of you.

Best regards,
Henrik


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## Tod (May 30, 2008)

Hi Bob,

How about a little script right in front of SIPS that adjusts the attacks and curves on the ahdsr? This way you wouldn't be limited to just two attack settings but have a selectable rang adjusted by a controller.

I think it would be a very simple script.  

Tod


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## Tod (May 30, 2008)

> Would it be a lot of work to have legato be toggled on/off via a keyswitch as well as via the current way, i.e. via note length?



Hi Henrik,

In case your not aware you can toggle the SLS on and off useing a controller of your choice. Down in the bottom right corner of SLS you can select the controller to do this. It works like any controller switch, 64 to 127 turns legato on and below 64 turns it off. You do have to select a controller though.

Tod


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## hbuus (May 30, 2008)

Hi Tod,

Thanks - I guess I really should read that User's Guide a little more carefully :oops: 

pp. 17:

"Mode CC edit box. Allows a MIDI CC to be assigned to select the SLS Mode. When a
valid CC is assigned, the 3 modes are selected by the CC’s value as follows:

64 to 127 Legato Mode
1 to 63 Solo Mode
0 SIPS OFF Note: This mode also disables the SVS"


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## Big Bob (May 30, 2008)

Hi Henrik,



> Would other people maybe have an interest in having access to presets based on the Sonivox' values, do you think? I'm thinking it might be a useful 2nd starting point besides the current presets, so that the user has two options for i.e. Oboe, namely the current preset, but also the Sonivox preset. What do you think? I'd be happy to write down the values in any form you need for them to be included as presets. I suppose there is no copyright issue on such values.



The Sonivox presets might well be the ones Nils did for them a while back. I received a complimentary copy of their library in connection with that but I haven't yet installed it so I'm not familiar with how they may have incorporated SIPS. If memory serves me correctly (doubtful :? ), Nils added release sample triggering at the end of the legato phrase (similarly to SIPS 2) and tweaked some of the presets for their instruments. I don't know if Nils put these tweaked presets with the Built Ins or if they were just added as User Presets. It's easy for anyone to add more User Presets but the Built-Ins require customization of the source code.

I don't know if there would be any copyright issues involved so before you distribute the presets, you might want to ask someone at Sonivox.

And, you are right about being busy trying to finish up with SIPS 2. Right now I'm busier than the proverbial 'one-armed paper hanger during fly season' :lol: .

God Bless,

Bob


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## Big Bob (May 30, 2008)

Tod @ Fri May 30 said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> How about a little script right in front of SIPS that adjusts the attacks and curves on the ahdsr? This way you wouldn't be limited to just two attack settings but have a selectable rang adjusted by a controller.
> 
> ...



Hi Tod,

That's an interesting idea but how can you use an envelope to 'remove' the front of a sample? I can see how you could silence the front end but then wouldn't you have to trigger the sample ahead of the time you would need the sound? Sort of amounts to predicting the future doesn't it?

I once tried to add a DFD mode to the original PCE Script (Pitch Control Engine) by starting all the notes in the glide interval at the same time but kept them all muted until needed. Kind of a similar idea I guess.

God Bless,

Bob


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## Tod (May 30, 2008)

Heh heh, never mind. One of those out to lunch days. :oops: 

For some reason I got it in my head that faster attacks was the main problem but I can clearly see now that's not the case. :roll: 

Oh well, I actually made a simple little script for controling the ahdsr and it might come in handy some day.  

God Bless you too,

Tod


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## anderslink (Aug 3, 2020)

Even though this thread is over a decade old I wanted to post my experience using SIPS with DFD and the sample offset parameter efficiently. I found a post by Evil Dragon that suggested changing the S.Mod amount on all samples instead of cloning the groups and editing off the attack portion of the samples. I couldn't find that many posts on this so I'll leave it here.

Here's what I did:

Load starter script. 
Load SIPS-Legato-V205_KR. 
Pick legato preset. 
Set Leg Ofst mode to “DFD Mode”. 
Leave DFD on. 
Add S.Mod amount same as sample rate value (44100 for example) to all sustain articulation zones - select all zones, edit S. Mod of visible one, then go to gear icon → to all selected zones → “copy current start-mod settings” to copy that S. Mod amount to every zone.


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