# The best vst Groovebox for Trance / Techno



## Trancer (Sep 21, 2020)

Can you give me your opinion on the best Vst Groovebox for composing Trance and with Techno sounds as well.

Thank you in advance for your answers.


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## Azeroc (Sep 21, 2020)

Tbh, don't know if this is really the right forum you're looking answers from. Yes, there are talks about different synths but mostly they are in a film scoring range. You'll soon find that there are some well established preferences on vi control. I think kvr covers a bit more trance/edm music production.

You can also check Equipboard and see what well known trance/edm producers tend to use but you'll also find out they have a huge arsenal of synths, ranging from digital to analog or analog emulated ones.
I used to be interested in trance in the past(15 years ago) but as Armin van Buuren put it recently in an interview with Junkie XL, it's not what it used to be and as Junkie XL also mentioned, he would never go back to EDM now that he is a film composer.

Anyways, sorry if this is out of place and purpose. That being said, Trance is about the sound and I think you can work with any synth in that direction (mostly digital ones) until you achieve the desired one.
Don't know about any vst groovebox and don't really understand why would you want a vst groovebox when you have a computer with a daw and a plethora of synths you can choose from.


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## Trancer (Sep 22, 2020)

Thank you for your reply.

Sorry if not the right place.

Here I was just asking for an opinion on a Vst Groovebox and not a hardware one.

In addition, beyond a daw and Vst instruments, a vst dedicated to percussion is just an idea to have a specific instrument for this purpose.


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## Azeroc (Sep 22, 2020)

Trancer said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> 
> Sorry if not the right place.
> 
> ...


I didn't mean is not the right place, but rather is more likely to find more info about trance/edm on kvr rather then in here and what nowadays it's used on that specific genre.


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## Trancer (Sep 22, 2020)

No problem.

I find the information here to be smart and correct and with excellent advice.

Proof my other post.

So, I am fine here and the information, opinions of the members of the forum are excellent.

Yes, there are other forums, but very often, forums said to be more specialized, perhaps more confusing and ask more questions than answer them.


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## SupremeFist (Sep 22, 2020)

NI's Maschine is essentially a VI groovebox (though I don't know if you can use it without Maschine hardware).


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## sostenuto (Sep 22, 2020)

Kinda 'broad-based' Reply ...... Sonic Charge - Microtonic continues to get high marks from wide range of users. PluginGuru comes to mind. 









Microtonic


Microtonic is a VST/AU plug-in for Windows and Mac featuring a unique drum and percussion synthesizer combined with a pattern based drum-machine engine.




soniccharge.com


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## SupremeFist (Sep 22, 2020)

Also, maybe Reason will be up your street.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Sep 22, 2020)

If I understand correctly, you are looking for drum samples / Vsti’s.
These guys have nice-sounding drum samples:








Sample Packs | Download Samples for Ableton Live and Maschine | Wave Alchemy


Tired of low quality sample libraries? At Wave Alchemy we care about making high-quality, original sounds. Transform your music with our 100% royalty-free sample packs for Ableton and Maschine, or download a free trial pack today.



www.wavealchemy.co.uk


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## Crowe (Sep 22, 2020)

Personally, I really like the stuff that's in Native Instruments Komplete. Battery, Polyplex, many drum libraries and enough synths and effects to create your own. Also Reaktor, which opens a whole other can of worms in the form of User Libraries. You should do some research on this, especially for electronic work Komplete is a fantastic option. I've also been using Maschine for a while, which is just amazing but requires the included hardware controller (bestfingerdrumpadsaround#fightme).

Over at pluginboutique there is currently a sale on BreakTweaker by iZotope (10,- with a bunch of expansions). I've been fooling around with it and it's fantastic (but I'm more into industrial than straight up EDM).

Then when moving into 'free' territory I use...

Chipdrum (8-bit drum design vst)
Drumatic (Also a drum design vst)
TS-808 (an on-point emulation of the Roland 808 drum machine)


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## Trancer (Sep 22, 2020)

Thanks for your feedback.

NI Maschine is a great product.

But, I don't want any hardware, otherwise I'll take Elektron or a Vermona drm mk3.

I would like a set that from Vst.

I will go to the microtronic site, concerning Reason, the effects rack is in vst and works in Live, that could be a solution.

But I would rather prefer a dedicated vst with a step sequencer, which is completely independent of a daw.

Battery, I don't know much, unless I'm mistaken, it doesn't have a built-in sequencer.

NI products, even if not too much of a fan, represent a great potential for sonic varieties, it must be recognized.

Thanks for the links.

I had completely forgotten Alchemy, but a lot of resource consumption if I am not mistaken.

Beyond that, very good products could be an alternative.

Thank you for your safe review of NI products.

I might have to get over this apprehension about NI.

Maschine is a hardware / software choice that borders on excellence.

Is it really reliable?

Then Maschine with the Software does not seem easy to get started, which puts me off a bit, just like Push 2 with Live 10.

What is interesting when you think about it is Komplet 13.

I will go to the pluginboutique site, thanks for the info


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## tf-drone (Sep 22, 2020)

I think there is no BEST one. It depends heavily on your workflow and your method of assembling a piece.

Perhaps.
Izotope BreakTweaker expanded. Currently a steal on pluginboutique.
Xils Stix. All what Xils does is just excellent.
NI Battery. Included in any bigger NI bundle AFAIK


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## Crowe (Sep 22, 2020)

I've not encountered any real problems with Maschine, other than its built-in limitations. I've got it routed into a specialized cubase template.

You don't have to *use* the hardware, but I don't see why you wouldn't. It's really excellent. Also keep in mind that it's a hardware controller with tight integration with its software. It's nothing like an Elektron unit.

If you must have a sequencer, it might help to know what DAW you use. I don't really use any other sequencers as I got what I need, but FL studio basically is it's own sequencer so you might want to look into FL as a DAW.

And again, really check out BreakTweaker on PB as it's really the only thing I can think of right now that truly conforms to your wishes.


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## muziksculp (Sep 22, 2020)

Hi,

You might want to check *GEIST 2* by FxPansion. 

https://www.fxpansion.com/products/geist2/


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## Trancer (Sep 22, 2020)

Thank you for your feedback and advice.

I am happy to have your feedback on Maschine mk3 and its software part.

I may need to be more sensitive to this and explore the subject further.

Breaktweaker, is really not bad.

Indeed, Xils Stix could be a choice adapted to my expectations.

I've had Fl Studio 12 and although he's a very good Daw, I prefer Live 10 to him.

Regarding Geist 2, a very good Vst, but it has been abandoned it seems to me?

The Maschine Mk3 m option really appeals, moreover it looks really powerful and quite complete.

If I am not mistaken, access to the entry level Komplet 12 and certainly possible to upgrade to the Komplet 13


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## muziksculp (Sep 22, 2020)

Trancer said:


> Regarding Geist 2, a very good Vst, but it has been abandoned it seems to me?



They discontinued Tremor. But, I think they are still supporting Gesit 2, and their other instruments.


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## muziksculp (Sep 22, 2020)

By the way, If your DAW has a good drum editor, or a step-sequencer, all you will need are the drum sounds, you can generate the rhythms using your DAW's drum/rhythm sequencing tools.


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## sostenuto (Sep 22, 2020)

Maybe try Sonic Charge - Microtonic 'demo' ?


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## Trancer (Sep 22, 2020)

I went to the site and there does not seem to be much activity.

In Live, there is a Drums rack.

I am looking more for a vst in the Software Maschine style, this one is not autonomous, it can only work with the hardware if I am not mistaken.

Microronic is a great vst, but nothing more.

But, I like the Breaktweaker alternative.


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## vitocorleone123 (Sep 22, 2020)

I'm probably repeating myself, but...

I'd start with an iPad. Even picking up a used older one opens the door to a LOT of MIDI controllers and generators, soft synths, effects, and... grooveboxes like *Grooverider16* and/or *iElectribe*

If looking on a PC for software, for drums I generally use either Alchemy Revolution or Drumvolution (or, now, Damage2), or one of a zillion samples accessed via Atlas (of you can use XO).


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## Dirtgrain (Sep 22, 2020)

Does groovebox mean drum machine? I got that sense from the comments but wanted to know for sure. I don't have a recommendation of one (I tend to use sample one-shots in Ableton). But I will suggest Shaperbox. I have a number of rhythm altering devices, but this one is my favorite (demoing for a while now--hoping for Black Friday sale). It can alter a drum loop--or whatever comes out of a drum machine--in so many cool ways.


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## sean8877 (Sep 22, 2020)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I'm probably repeating myself, but...
> 
> I'd start with an iPad. Even picking up a used older one opens the door to a LOT of MIDI controllers and generators, soft synths, effects, and... grooveboxes like *Grooverider16* and/or *iElectribe*
> 
> If looking on a PC for software, for drums I generally use either Alchemy Revolution or Drumvolution (or, now, Damage2), or one of a zillion samples accessed via Atlas (of you can use XO).



Second Revolution and Drumvolution, I use them both all the time.


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## Trancer (Sep 22, 2020)

Thank you for your reply.

I prefer to go through a computer platform, even if the ipad solution is undoubtedly interesting.

A very good alternative are Alchemy products.

As you have them, can you tell me if they are greedy in resource processor, apparently it consumes a lot.

Can you confirm to me if this is really the case, thank you in advance.

Indeed I speak well of rhythm machine, I know these plug ins, they are of excellent qualities, I did not think more about them.

More often promotions and the bundle is really at a more than interesting price.


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## SvenE (Sep 22, 2020)

I would suggest to take a look at this youtube clip showing Boris Brejcha making techno tracks in his studio (he is working in the box: DAW Cubase, Synth Omnisphere, Trillian, Nexus 3, Alchemy and Fabfilter One, For drums one shots/loops):


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## Trancer (Sep 22, 2020)

Thank you very much for this very interesting and very informative video.

A nice config and the big screen not bad at all.

An option to think about.


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## vitocorleone123 (Sep 22, 2020)

It's not uplifting trance, but I just wanted to make sure you saw/heard a random example of Grooverider16 on an iPad. You can import samples and/or use the ones it comes with - it also has a synthesizer built in and some effects. It's also not too hard to connect an iPad to a PC  

I think the full price is $30.



And another app by the same developer



Or you can go off the deep end with Drambo, which is sort of like having an Octatrack

I'll now stop mentioning the iPad to you. I promise!


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## vitocorleone123 (Sep 22, 2020)

Trancer said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> 
> I prefer to go through a computer platform, even if the ipad solution is undoubtedly interesting.
> 
> ...



Kontakt does suck up some resources. I wouldn't call Revolution or Drumvolution "lightweight". But they're not intense. Depends on the PC, I guess, too. On a 9900K my DAW says Drumvolution's default preset takes 10%-15%.


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## Trancer (Sep 23, 2020)

Thank you for your reply.

Thanks for the examples for the Ipad.

No worries, I don't mind you talking about the iPad at all.

Although this device seems to be quite flexible and offers quite a few possibilities, I prefer to use a computer.

Regarding Revolution and Drumvolution, it is clear that its consumes a lot of resources, with an I9 processor, surprisingly consuming so much per instance.


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## vitocorleone123 (Sep 23, 2020)

Trancer said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> 
> Thanks for the examples for the Ipad.
> 
> ...



There's a lot going on inside, but I wonder if Kontakt adds up to 5% "overhead". By a lot going on, I mean lots of sounds, sequencing, effects, etc. that are all built in. The only modern drum synth I have an eye on buying, and it sounds sort of quirky and unique which can be good or bad, is the Sugarbytes Drumcomputer. XILS would be my next choice, but... I'm not a big fan of their UX design.


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## Trancer (Sep 23, 2020)

Thanks for your return.

Kontakt is a titanic soundbank point of view.

There is version 6 if I am not mistaken, but in view of the opinions the criticisms made for version 5, still not been corrected.

For example the interface and ergonomics.


Regarding the Xils products, which are certainly of excellent quality, I am not very enthusiastic about the design as you are.


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## vitocorleone123 (Sep 23, 2020)

Trancer said:


> Thanks for your return.
> 
> Kontakt is a titanic soundbank point of view.
> 
> ...



Definitely. I have the XILS MiniSynX and it sounds great. I just don't enjoy using it very much... but for the money I have no regrets. I almost purchased more from them but the UI keeps me from doing it. If they could just hire someone(s) to revamp the interfaces they'd take things to the next level, because they all sound great.

Wave Alchemy sell most of the samples used in their Kontakt drum machines separately. They have a bundle (and are working on an updated one) that may be worth considering when they do their "Black Friday" or holiday sale - not sure which they do as a company. Samples from Mars also has a bundle of samples. Put those 2 bundles together and you have many thousands of drum samples. Then you need Atlas or XO to find things. You can use those as drum machines. Audiomodern Playbeat can sometimes add an interesting twist.


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## Trancer (Sep 23, 2020)

It is true that design has an important part in the use.

Thank you for the info, I will consult the two sites in more detail.


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## Crowe (Sep 23, 2020)

Trancer said:


> Thanks for your return.
> 
> Kontakt is a titanic soundbank point of view.
> 
> ...



The constant b***hing about the Kontakt 'interface and ergonomics' are grossly overblown if you use regular monitors (like up to around 32 inch). The whole discussion honestly reminds me of the spoiled brats over at Gearslutz.


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## vitocorleone123 (Sep 23, 2020)

Shiirai said:


> The constant b***hing about the Kontakt 'interface and ergonomics' are grossly overblown if you use regular monitors (like up to around 32 inch). The whole discussion honestly reminds me of the spoiled brats over at Gearslutz.



Hmm. I guess I'd say that, as a professional UX designer of over 20 years experience, that the Kontakt UI was ahead of its time, which is a contributing factor to how it became a standard (pricing, bundling, etc. also huge). However, what was once ahead eventually becomes behind if it doesn't change. And, while it's continually improved, most of those improvements are "under the hood". Kontakt is harder to use than it should be because they cannot, or will not, for likely a multitude of reasons (legacy probably being the big one), truly bring the UI into the modern era. This is also one of a multitude of reasons why other companies are now stepping in to make their own engine/players. Over time, without a major overhaul, they will continue to lose customers. As long as they gain new ones faster than they lose them, I wouldn't expect any major changes.

That isn't complaining. In fact, I'm pretty confident that's a fair assessment.


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## Trancer (Sep 23, 2020)

I do not know if spoiled children, but ergonomics and doing everything for a better use of the user seems to me a priority, obvious.

If we rely on what we have learned, it's normal to lose customers or look elsewhere for solutions that are best suited to them.

Monopoly does not last forever.

I don't think I'm a spoiled child when for quite some time users have been asking for better ergonomics and interface for more optimal visibility.

It's the same for a Daw, for anything else.


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## Crowe (Sep 23, 2020)

I understand your points of view, I simply disagree. "Truly bringing UI's into the modern era" has caused an absurd amount of homogenization that has been making me, now an ex-UX designer, absolutely miserable for years. I'll just point at what I consider to be the very worst example of this, AudioImperia's 'makeover' of their Cerberus and Jaeger plugins and leave it at that, as the fact these changes are so celebrated actually hurts my creative heart.

Anyway, I have no issues with the Kontakt interface as it works absolutely fine, so yeah, I think there isn't a real problem.


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## Trancer (Sep 23, 2020)

Here I have only written according to some Kontakt users the criticism made on these two particular points.

It is clear that we all have a different form of sensitivity and fortunately elsewhere.

The most important thing is that everyone finds what they want and inspires them


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