# Ultra-Heroic theme using mostly Symphobia



## c0mp0ser (Feb 17, 2009)

http://mikepatti.com/vi-control/UT%20Action%20Trailer%203%20FINAL%20v2.mp3 (http://mikepatti.com/vi-control/UT%20Ac ... L%20v2.mp3)

For this i used:

Symphobia
VSL Epic Horns
True Strike
CineHarp 
VOTA Choir
Altiverb Todd-AO

I always know I can get honest feedback here. (Still working on those other action trailer pieces)


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## Hal (Feb 17, 2009)

very nice composition
i guess the trumpet and woods are symphobya too


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## madbulk (Feb 17, 2009)

c0mp0ser @ Tue Feb 17 said:


> k... harp pushed back more... Anything else?
> 
> By the way, where do you usually position the harp? I know in a typical scoring stage setup, the harp is physically sitting to the right of the conductor, but in many recordings it sounds on the left...
> Where should it go?



So, if I just downloaded it again, is this a new version. (I didn't DL the first one, just opened it in the browser.)

I always think of the harp and piano at like 10 o'clock and midway back personally. So, since it's a little ways away, I wouldn't expect to hear that much high end on it. 

Right now that area around :30, there are a few gliss's in a short span, it's distracting as hell. But if it were backed up 15 feet maybe it would be great.

Sorry to still be on the harp, but I'm not finding much else to bitch about. Horns are a little mushy in the beginning where they're stating the theme. Another layer in there maybe to get a few off attacks here and there? I don't have symphobia. On the and of two in the repeating figure I guess... can those be any more staccato even sometimes? I'm reaching now for crap to fix just cuz it sounds like you want it.


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## madbulk (Feb 17, 2009)

More reaching....
At :40, the end of the percussive treatment, a little dynamics would be nice. All that is just laying it out. Maybe not a four bar cresc. but just that last measure of it... hit things hard. Then you get your nice collapse to begin that descending harmony thing that follows.

I'm done by the way, the piece rocks just as it is.


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## c0mp0ser (Feb 17, 2009)

Thanks for your feedback Brian, 

Yeah, the AND of TWO in the horn line in the beginning could use some staccato emphasis. I do have a horn staccato patch layered in there, perhaps bringing that out more for the 16ths of the phrase would help.

I will admit I went a bit crazy with the harp glisses. Maybe I'll take a few out and that should solve the issue. I do like the close-miced-ness of it though. I think also my mastering plugin really brought out a lot of hi-end, making the harp stick out a bit too much.

Hal, 

I forgot, yes there are VSL woodwinds in there too. Along with the symphobia WW patch.

M


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## Mahlon (Feb 17, 2009)

I like it a lot. Nice mixing job; you've got a big sound with your orchestration. What strings patch (patches) are you using from Symphobia?

Mahlon


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## c0mp0ser (Feb 17, 2009)

Thanks Mahlon, 

It's not entirely symphobia strings, but most of it is. 

String Sustain DYN patch.
String Tremolo DYN
String Pizzicato
Sonic Implants Ensemble Spiccato

Doubling the Sustain DYN with VSL Flute Legato has a nice sound. Also doubling the Sustain DYN with VSL Epic Horns is nice for midrangy melodic material.

I have some old Roland strings mixed in there too, to fill it out a bit.


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## hbuus (Feb 17, 2009)

Overall I love this! It reminds me of John Williams' stuff (which is meant as a great compliment, hope you take it that way!)

The first few bars...I love them! :D 
The brass sounds really, really nice.
There is a good balance between the various sections in this piece, I think.
Good mixing.

That clarinet that pops out of nowhere and plays along for a few bars at 0.22 - 0.25...nice!

Nice climaxes.

Hell, I may be overusing the word nice here, but it's justified! :D 

Two things though - first, the piece may be a little weak bass-wise. I am listening through headphones though, so that may be the problem. Secondly, the harp. It sounds cheap somehow, I'm sorry to say. It's like it falls through compared to the other instruments. It doesn't fit in.

Anyway...like I started to say...I love this!
It's my own goal to be able to write something like this one day.
Well done, c0mp0ser!

Best regards,
Henrik


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## Dynamitec (Feb 18, 2009)

Very nice! Great sound and mixing! I love Startrek and this somehow reminds of Deep Space 9


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## paoling (Feb 18, 2009)

Wonderful composition...


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## J.Buskes (Feb 18, 2009)

Hey c0mp0ser,

First of all, i think you've did a great job on this piece. You've achieved a great sense of depth in the overall sound. But there are a few things i want to say:

The horns that play the theme in the beginning could use some staccato passages to make it sound a bit tighter. Also, i think the big reprise of the main theme could use some bass. It sounds a bit thin to my liking.

Other then that, great job!


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## schatzus (Feb 19, 2009)

Mike,
I have had real trouble with getting the brass in Symphobia to have a fast attack like in this piece. I am assuming that much of that is from VSL Epic Horns?
Just curious...wonderful composition by the way. Very Goldsmithian


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Feb 19, 2009)

I'd say JW much more than Goldsmith, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyhow, great job. 8)


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## Niah (Feb 19, 2009)

great joy ride !


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## Shantar (Feb 19, 2009)

Nice.  Well done. Very heroic indeed.


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## c0mp0ser (Feb 20, 2009)

Thanks guys! :D 

Hey Shatzus,
Where specifically are you talking about fast attack in the brass? I used Epic Horns legato for the melodic stuff... and aside from that, I had the EW 2 Trumpets 4x RR for the ending. That patch is great for triadic trumpet stuff. Almost everything else is Symphobia. 

Oh, and in Symphobia I used a lot of the marcato patches which is like a strong attack that diminishes. You layer that with the regular Sustain patch an it's very effective for forte passages. Sounds very much how real brass players would play loud long notes, strong attack that diminishes. o=<


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## Alex Temple (Feb 20, 2009)

I like this, especially the more militaristic version at the end. I think you've also done well with the virtual space, which sounds quite resonant esp. as the final tutti staccato fades away.

There is one spot where I'd like to hear the chords voiced more fully. This is at 0:16-0:18, where you have the trumpets in violins in unison on the high F and then the horns playing the descending Bb-A an octave lower. I feel like the crescendo that occurs just before this, and the thickening of the orchestration in general, makes the voicing a little too open here. If this were my piece, I would add (or strengthen, if there already is one) a C to complete the chord, probably a fourth below the F on the trumpets, and possibly go even further and add a Bb-A below that to double what the horns are doing an octave lower. This is nitpicking of course.


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## MettaAudio (Feb 20, 2009)

Excellent work. Love the grand feel of it all. The opening reminds me a lot of a piece by Mr. Bergensen.

My ONLY suggestion is with the trumpets at the very end. They play half notes Bb to G (the top part any way) right before their last chord. It sounds like a staccato articulation layered over a sustain, but the timbre difference is just to great to sound real. I'd suggest trying a true forte-piano attack for just those two notes.

That's my 2 cents. Otherwise, good work. Looking forward to hearing more.


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## madbulk (Feb 20, 2009)

It reminds me of one of the TJ pieces too. Wonder if we're thinking of the same one.

Don't take that the wrong way Michael. TJ's piece sounds like ten others I can think of instantly. It's not a knock on either piece.

And from a production standpoint, it's a rave.


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## schatzus (Feb 23, 2009)

> I used Epic Horns legato for the melodic stuff... and aside from that, I had the EW 2 Trumpets 4x RR for the ending. That patch is great for triadic trumpet stuff. Almost everything else is Symphobia.
> 
> Oh, and in Symphobia I used a lot of the marcato patches which is like a strong attack that diminishes. You layer that with the regular Sustain patch an it's very effective for forte passages. Sounds very much how real brass players would play loud long notes, strong attack that diminishes.



I guess I was more or less referring to the ending. It sounds great with the brass as you mentioned. 
Thanks for the tips. I'm going to give that a try.
Awesome work...


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## MaraschinoMusic (Feb 24, 2009)

What a great piece! 
I love it, I want to see the movie. 
It also makes me want to have Symphobia 

Watch out John Williams...


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## StrangeCat (Feb 25, 2009)

hey sounds great! I thought I was going to hear some Flute Swirls though as answering phrases after the brass. but it's Great! Keep it up^_-Reminded me of Amazing stories Intro music.


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## c0mp0ser (Feb 25, 2009)

Here's a little video I made of the sequence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHZ4G_1gzx4&fmt=22

I love that YouTube is HD now!


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## MettaAudio (Feb 25, 2009)

Great video. It's fascinating seeing your work from that perspective. Thanks for posting it!


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## Shantar (Feb 26, 2009)

Nice video. How large is your orchestral template? PS: Did you know I had this song on my brain all day?  Nice and indeed a memorial theme you´ve got there.


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## madbulk (Feb 26, 2009)

Definitely, somebody's ultra hero would be lucky to be associated with it. Let us know when it gets bought.

Cool vid too.


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## handz (Feb 26, 2009)

mmm yummy, I like that very much. Good old Williams like adventure theme.


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## billval3 (Feb 26, 2009)

Any chance you might share a PDF of the score, seeing as how you've already shared so much else? :wink:


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## dcoscina (Feb 26, 2009)

This sounds VERY good. But more Alan Silvestri than Williams. The 7th chord voicings would have been closed horn chords if it were Williams and the suspended chord before the cadence to the tonic is a signature of Silvestri. Williams usually uses a II-I cadence or VII-I or else chromatically modulates to some other key centre just to keep things interesting. But the SOUND you achieved is amazing. I'm really impressed. Kudos


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## Stevie (Mar 16, 2009)

aww michel, you shouldnt have said that, now the PDF has disapeared :lol:


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## TheoKrueger (Mar 16, 2009)

Wonderful and professional work, I really enjoyed listening to this piece. The voicings in the piece are really cool too. Nice string/woodwind combinations, the production is very good too.

Great job!

Best,
Theo.


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## c0mp0ser (Mar 16, 2009)

Yeah, sorry about that. We just launched our new www.cinesamples.com website so some links got moved.

It's all fixed now! PDF is back up.

Mike


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## c0mp0ser (Mar 16, 2009)

Oh, and I put all those video screencasts and other videos up here:

http://cinesamples.com/videos/


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## PoppaJimmy (Mar 17, 2009)

Hi c0mp0ser:

Thanks for your answer. What you say makes perfect sense to me regarding what I'll call "overmixing." Still, even your suggestion of a 30% wet dry mix with each section going through it's own instance of Altiverb is useful as a starting point. I've heard so many formulas and I like trying different things myself to see what I get. 

Are you recording your audio tracks "dry" then creating a separate stereo bus for each section and routing the audio through this bus with Altiverb in that bus, or are you mixing everything in MIDI and routing the audio output through altiverb and recording the audio with the FX? I've heard both suggestions and am wondering about your choice. Or perhaps you are doing it another way.

I learn so much from hearing the different approaches people have and am so glad there are those willing to share their techniques. For example, I have no idea what L1 ultramaximiser is but now, I will look it up. Thanks again.

Be Well,

Jimmy


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## PoppaJimmy (Mar 17, 2009)

c0mp0ser:

Just looked up the ultramiximiser. Thanks for that info. Now I have a clue I didn't before.

Be Well,

Jimmy


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## c0mp0ser (Mar 17, 2009)

I record the tracks with the FX on them.


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## PoppaJimmy (Mar 18, 2009)

c0mp0ser:

Thanks again.

Be Well,

Jimmy


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