# Altiverb or VSS3 new opinions?



## pdzl (Jun 16, 2006)

Now that the windows version is out, I am guessing there should be many new users.

Do you have any impressions or opinions on this since getting it yet?

Those of you with Powercore vss3 how do they compare (I know it's not a fair comparison, but I'll ask it anyway :oops: )?

Are you happy with the purchase? Did it meet your expectations?

Thanks in advance and Cheers,


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## José Herring (Jun 16, 2006)

*Re: Altiverb new opinions?*

I don't think you need any experience to judge a good reverb. Just listen to the sounds. 

My opinion is this:

Altiverb, good but thin sounding. Nice sounding spacial relations but lacks a real rich reverb sound.

VSS3--unbelievalbly awesome sounding. Real sounding....no, but ....seeing how 100% of live recordings are mixed with fake verb I'm not at all worried about the realism of a verb.

As far as what's right. Totally personal opinion. Both can deliver a high quality final product.


Jose


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## pdzl (Jun 16, 2006)

Jose those are my initial impressions as well. But I just wanted to make sure as there are people here with far more reverb experience than I do.

But I completely agree with your viewpoint as well. I'm still looking for Lexicon density, lushness, thickness!

As far as vss3, I'm still not sold on it completely. The algorithms for it as far as I understand it are based on the old TC reverb M3000 right? I mean, it's not like Reverb6000 ..... is it or isn't it?

Has anyone in this forum made any demos using the VSS3 for powercore yet? Would be very interested to hear how this sounds.

Thanks again Jose, and anyone else who chimes in here!


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## José Herring (Jun 16, 2006)

*Re: Altiverb new opinions?*

There was a video explaining that the VSS3 uses the same algorhythms as the MC6000 unit(not sure of the letters but I'm sure they said that it was something 6000).

Personally I don't think it comes anywhere near sounding what zimmer is using on the scoring stage but I've heard Alan Myerson his engineer saying that he uses it and is particularly impressed with the Male Vocal hall preset.

All I know is from the video I thought it was one of the best reverbs I've ever heard in my life. And mind you, I've been a die hard lexicon fan and user for 10 years. I think the Lexicon 960, 480 are the best units out there. On the other hand the VSS3 has a sound that I'm actually thinking of using instead of Lexicon for my next live sessions.

My only complaint is that it is bright sounding, and me being use to lexicon's dark orchestral hall sounds that takes a little getting use too. But, it's film and that Lexicon sound I think is getting too old sounding, imo.

Either way like I said I don't think you can go wrong. 

Jose


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## pdzl (Jun 16, 2006)

Which vss3 video is this? Do you have a link or know where I can find this? Thanks!


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## Scott Cairns (Jun 16, 2006)

There's some video links on this page; http://www.tcelectronic.com/VSS3PowerCore

Im about to splash out on a new verb myself. Im leaning toward Altiverb, but I might be swayed.


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## pdzl (Jun 16, 2006)

Jose that video by Robbie or is it another video? http://www.tcelectronic.com/Default.asp?Id=6041

Scott I'm in the same boat as you are.


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## José Herring (Jun 16, 2006)

Yup. That's the one.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Jose


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## pdzl (Jun 16, 2006)

Excellent points folmann. I remember TJ's amazing demos a few years ago, and he used Creative Live soundcard's built in reverb! Most people were shocked.

We had a compressor/limiter shoot out here a while back. I was wondering if there'd be any interest in doing the same with Altiverb vs Wizoo vs vss3? Might be telling or at least interesting.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jun 16, 2006)

I am also thinking of geting one of these reverbs to complement my current choices. 
Altiverb is the one I was mostly interested in since I need a verb for scores but also for sound design and it seemed like Altiverb had a set of very cool features.

I am not familiar with VSS3 but it sounds pretty exciting based on your opinions.
And then Wizoo makes it more confusing too...

Funny, I remember telling myself that once I'll get this piece of gear I'll be all set ...yea right! :???:


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## Frederick Russ (Jun 16, 2006)

Altiverb is an excellent convolution engine for processing impulse responses. For orchestral I believe that Altiverb could be all you need since it has tight and loose reflections as well as the large hall sounds. The Altiverb hall sounds coupled with some of its tighter reflections sounds awesome and may well be all you need. For orchestral mockup tasks and trying to get the most realistic response as one would hear in a concert hall, Altiverb is your ticket in my opinion.

VSS3 is an excellent reverb. VSS3 has excellent tight & loose reflections as well. For people with Powercore who want to save the hit on their CPU its a great option. The reverb is lush although from a real-world sense not entirely accurate since little things like chorusing the tails are added on some of the patches ala TC6000. But, like its been mentioned many times before, TC6000 has been utilized on countless big film productions and recording studios for years (VSS3 uses the same algorithms as the TC6000 for reverb.)

The cool thing about VSS3 is that its production capabilities are not as confined to the task of realistically reproducing a hall's characteristics accurately. It appears more concerned with producing a psychoacoustically pleasing sound which, although not entirely accurate, sounds great. This translates well also in many other genres - rock, pop, acoustic, hip hop, etc - as well as in the orchestral vein so its versatile.

I ended up getting both.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jun 17, 2006)

The Deep Male Vocal Hall preset from the TC Sys 6000 that Jose refers to is one of the free IR's on www.Samplicity.com/download ("Large Hall 3" - I had some problems with TCE when I introduced the library).

I am not sure if the new VSS3 is exactly the same as the VSS3 algo's in the 6000. 

Mail me if you want a PDF with the Samplicity presets, as well as a PDF from the presets in the 6000.

Personally I still prefer the ambience from digital device IR's as opposed to acoustic IR's (always coloring included due to speakers, mics and sweep artifacts). But maybe I'm just conservative and/or trying to avoid new purchases  )

BTW: I find the VSS4 algo's better than the VSS3 ones in my library (really true stereo).


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## Waywyn (Jun 17, 2006)

damn, i didn't even know there is a vss4 and 5


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jun 17, 2006)

The VSS3 algo's originate from older devices. The real classy verbs in the TCE 6000 are made with the VSS4. :smile:

http://www.samplicity.com/forums/vi/4%20Sys6_Algos_350_1612.pdf (PDF with TCE 6000 presets and configurations) (just available on the TCE site, no copyright problems I guess)


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## Frederick Russ (Jun 17, 2006)

Thanks for clearing that up Peter. The samplicity library you're offering has the vss4 presets for Altiverb then - or perhaps something in the works? :smile:


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jun 17, 2006)

The Samplicity lib has about 22 VSS4 presets and around 68 VSS3 presets from the 6000. In fact it's the entire list of VSS3 and VSS4 presets, minus the ones that used modulation (which produces aliasing artefacts). I also left out the EMT emulations, because they resulted in rather "gritty" IR's. A number of VSS4 presets have been recorded and processed to have alternate, positioned takes and less ER versions.

Maybe I can tackle the Lex 960 this autumn. First I will be moving again, this time to a larger house, mu current apartment is way too small and expensive. The new house will also give me back a personal studio room, nicely built on top of this house, without any neighbours!


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## José Herring (Jun 17, 2006)

Samplicity is a really good way to get really great spaces for dirt cheap. I use it all the time now with Pristine Space and the quality of my productions jumped up considerably.

I can't recommened them highly enough if you don't have the money yet for VSS3. I get a lot of compliments on my reverb sound from composers and non musicians just think that my productions sound really phat and are very happy with the music I'm doing these days. Some of that are the Samplicity set for sure.

best,

Jose


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## synthetic (Jul 13, 2006)

Chart of which TC processors use which reverb algorithms:







I'm saving my pennies for a Reverb 4000, since it has the VSS-4, DVR-2 and REV-4 algorithms. It's still a ways off, though...


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## iocomposer (Jul 13, 2006)

I used an M3000 for about 4 years. It was a GREAT reverb box. I do regret getting rid of it. Though, when I bought Revibe, it sounded just as good as the TC to my ears, so I thought it was kinda redundant. Although I think that may have been a little short-sighted because I'll never forget just how good the M3000 was at dialing in realistic sounding spaces (I used it mostly for sound design and post). 

For music, I would say that it's probably overkill to have VSS3 if you already have Altiverb. 

For me, now that TC has a TDM verison of the M3000, I think I may splurge on that 
-Jamey


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