# Windows Laptop for DAW



## nyxl (Apr 30, 2022)

Hi all,

since I will have to use a mobile setup for a while, I'm currently looking for a (Windows) laptop.
I want to use Cubase, HOOPUS, BBCSO Core, Afflatus and some other Kontakt libraries, which I have on an external SSD that I'm currently using with my desktop PC.
My main requirements for the laptop are

RAM (at least 16GB, 32GB much preferred)
connectivity (being able to connect my external SSD via USB-C while charging, plus my USB-A audio interface and other peripherals like Midi controller, dongle; I will probably need a USB hub for some of that, but I guess the SSD and audio interface should be connected directly to avoid additional latency?)
a decent CPU
should be able to handle audio processing with a reasonable latency
I don't really care about screen resolution, touch screens or graphics card. I'd like to spend not much more than 1500€. I've found the ThinkPad T14s (Gen1) with 32GB RAM and AMD Ryzen 7 Pro 4750U for ~1600€, which seems like a decent deal, but I'd love to get some opinions or suggestions from you.

Thanks!


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## cel4145 (Apr 30, 2022)

I have not kept up with mobile processors. But I believe that AMD CPU is a 2020 release. I would use notebook check and CPU benchmark to compare CPUs against laptops with newer processors in your budget range









Notebook / Laptop Reviews and News


Notebookcheck provides in depth reviews, technical articles like benchmark comparisons, and news on laptops / notebooks, netbooks and tablets.




www.notebookcheck.net





For example, you might want to look into the newer AMD 4800h CPU, which appears to be a better multi-processor CPU than the 4750U



AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 4750U vs AMD Ryzen 7 4800H [cpubenchmark.net] by PassMark Software



And then here is an actual Cubase benchmark for some desktop processors









The Best CPU for Cubase - DAWBench Audio Stream Test (Spring 2021) - Orbital Computers


This post covers the results of CPU stress test performed in Cubase 11 using DAWBench. We detail the number of VST plugins we were able to run as well providing some background on ASIO systems and PC music processing.




orbitalcomputers.com





Given how well the Intel 11700 performs, you might want to look into the 11800h that is available on laptops. It appears to be better than the AMD 4750U, from what I can tell.


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## Eulenauge66 (Apr 30, 2022)

Buy a MacBook. Run Windows 11 on Parallels. After 30 years of Windows laptops I will never buy anything else.


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## kitekrazy (Apr 30, 2022)

Eulenauge66 said:


> Buy a MacBook. Run Windows 11 on Parallels. After 30 years of Windows laptops I will never buy anything else.


Not an Apple fan but the prices of an M1 seem reasonable.


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## LA68 (Apr 30, 2022)

Might wanna check out the HP Elitebook line and Framework. Both very repairable in case something goes wrong. The modular ports of the Framework are pretty cool.









Introducing the new and upgraded Framework Laptop


Framework Laptop: A thin, light, high-performance notebook that's upgradeable, repairable, and 100% yours. Order today with the latest configuration options.




frame.work


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## ridgero (Apr 30, 2022)

The new Dell XPS 13 Plus seems to be one of the best Notebooks.


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## ridgero (Apr 30, 2022)




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## cedricm (May 1, 2022)

Eulenauge66 said:


> Buy a MacBook. Run Windows 11 on Parallels. After 30 years of Windows laptops I will never buy anything else.


You won't find a MacBook in this price range. 
The Pro 13 is limited to 16 GB. 
The 14 Pro 32 GB will set you back €2,709 (with 20% vat). 
You should find an adequate notebook with Lenovo, HP, Dell, Asus, MSI. 
There are very often sales.


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## mussnig (May 1, 2022)

I've looked into laptops a couple of months ago but ultimately decided to buy a small form factor PC which can run nearly silent while doing DAW stuff (it's actually not too small, since I needed it to have a halfway decent GPU as well).

Anyways, here is what I figured:

Look for something where you can upgrade RAM (don't take something with soldered RAM). Also, since you mention BBCSO, I would take at least 32 GB RAM (even with BBCSO Core, RAM fills up pretty quickly) but in that case, the difference to 64 GB is usually not that big anymore.
I would take a CPU with at least 8 Cores. I was looking into Ryzen 7 5800h or Core i7-11800h. I guess now I would prefer a 12th gen Intel CPU if it's within budget.

I can't tell you specific models though, since all the models I took into consideration were chosen with the GPU in mind.

Regarding latency: Notebookcheck usually has a latency check with LatencyMon. However, as others have reported, don't purely rely on that number. Also, once you connect an external audio interface, latency usually gets much better (there are videos on YouTube where they test this with Dell XPS and LatencyMon running).

Regarding the Framework laptop that was mentioned above: The Core i7-1165G7 and i7-1185G7 are nice by themselves (I have worked with an i7-1065G7 for quite some time). Single core speed is very good. However, the fact that it only has 4 cores can be a bottleneck pretty quick (again, the Spitfire player can be quite heavy on the CPU compared to many Kontakt libs), especially if you don't just write stuff with ensemble patches (where you would most likely end up with less tracks).

One thing that I usually looked at in the Notebookcheck reviews was the emissions section. In particular, how loud the fans would get. For working with audio this can be of relevance.


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## thevisi0nary (May 1, 2022)

Eulenauge66 said:


> Buy a MacBook. Run Windows 11 on Parallels. After 30 years of Windows laptops I will never buy anything else.


Wouldn't there be a ton of latency and asio stability issues with this?


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## thevisi0nary (May 1, 2022)

ridgero said:


> The new Dell XPS 13 Plus seems to be one of the best Notebooks.


I am mostly taking the piss here but I have never hated a laptop design as much as the 13+ since it was announced. It does everything possible to make things less convenient for absolutely zero benefit. All the money the spent on R&D to make the touchpad and FN keys invisible and to shrink the chasis by 1mm could have been used towards designing better quality control methods.

The 2020 and onwards XPS 15 and 17 models have been continually shipping with wobbly track pads, and Dell is worried about making keys with no tactile feedback and removing the headphone jack.


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## dzilizzi (May 1, 2022)

I have both a Lenovo Flex and an ASUS 17" gaming laptop. Both have the option of adding a second drive. The ASUS allows aftermarket update of RAM to 64GB. The Flex comes with 16 GB RAM. don't know if it upgradeable further. The Flex is lighter than the ASUS. Both come with an i7 option. I actually got both through Costco.


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## widescreen (May 2, 2022)

@nyxl Are you in Europe? Then consider the configurable notebooks of Schenker.

Max. 64 GB RAM with 2 changeable modules, 2 SSD slots (you decide which SSD, even with 8TB if needed). 1,1 kg. Magnesium. 160° display opening angle. 3x USB 3.2, 1x Thunderbolt 4.

Beginning at ~1150€ with 3K display and an i7-11370H.

https://bestware.com/en/schenker-vision-14.html

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schen...ook-with-1-kg-and-16-10-display.546055.0.html

For now my #1 on the list if my Asus breaks down. Of course they have other variants with bigger screens or cheaper, if not that lightweight.


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## mussnig (May 2, 2022)

widescreen said:


> @nyxl Are you in Europe? Then consider the configurable notebooks of Schenker.
> 
> Max. 64 GB RAM with 2 changeable modules, 2 SSD slots (you decide which SSD, even with 8TB if needed). 1,1 kg. Magnesium. 160° display opening angle. 3x USB 3.2, 1x Thunderbolt 4.
> 
> ...


Good choice. Don't be fooled by the H suffix of the processor, though - it's actually an i7-1185G7 that is allowed to draw more power. Again, single core performance is fine but multi core performance is below any modern 8 core cpu.

I really hope though, that the Schenker vision series will be updated with an i7-1260p or i7-1280p - low power draw but very good performance.


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## widescreen (May 2, 2022)

mussnig said:


> Good choice. Don't be fooled by the H suffix of the processor, though - it's actually an i7-1185G7 that is allowed to draw more power. Again, single core performance is fine but multi core performance is below any modern 8 core cpu.
> 
> I really hope though, that the Schenker vision series will be updated with an i7-1260p or i7-1280p - low power draw but very good performance.


Seems like, as it's only the i7 and the 3K are left in the shop, at least for the 14" model. As even Dell has announced their XPS Plus series with updated processors last week, it shouldn't last that long until Schenker bring up theirs, I hope.


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## mussnig (May 2, 2022)

widescreen said:


> Seems like, as it's only the i7 and the 3K are left in the shop, at least for the 14" model. As even Dell has announced their XPS Plus series with updated processors last week, it shouldn't last that long until Schenker bring up theirs, I hope.


I hope so. The XPS 13 Plus with i7-1260p and 32 GB RAM looks really great (still a bit too expensive for my liking) and I am eager to see what others will bring.

IIRC, last year Bestware/Schenker updated most of their models to 11th Gen Intel CPUs at some point during summer (some of them in late Spring). But according to rumors, this year even MS needed to push their next surface laptop (which is expected to use the Core i7-1280P in some versions) back to Fall due to chip shortage.


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## widescreen (May 2, 2022)

mussnig said:


> I hope so. The XPS 13 Plus with i7-1260p and 32 GB RAM looks really great (still a bit too expensive for my liking) and I am eager to see what others will bring.
> 
> IIRC, last year Bestware/Schenker updated most of their models to 11th Gen Intel CPUs at some point during summer (some of them in late Spring). But according to rumors, this year even MS needed to push their next surface laptop (which is expected to use the Core i7-1280P in some versions) back to Fall due to chip shortage.



The XPS is not ideal for me, too less USB, only 32GB fixed RAM. It should be more than design, a good screen and a high prize. Feels Apple-ized.

Since I saw the possibility of getting 64 GB in 2 modules AND 2 internal SSDs in a 1.1 kg vessel I can only accept less options with a big distaste. But as my needs are not urgent, I can wait for the new models.

If you ask my wife, I can even wait until i7-16xxx is coming.






Honestly my i7-8550 with 16 GB RAM still works well although the memory sometimes restricts me as I'm used to practically unlimited RAM (128 GB) since my last desktop update. One of the best steps I made, never worry again about memory (at least for some years).
But to consolidate my notebook's 2TB internal+1TB external SSDs to a new 4TB internal AND keeping the 2TB internal in addition keeps me salivating... Since I got deep into VSL Synchron Series I can only use the most obvious mic positions on the notebook.


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## cleverr1 (May 2, 2022)

Choosing a good laptop for audio is a nightmare. The challenge seems to be choosing the least bad option available at the time in terms of DPC latency and thermal throttling.

I'd recommend going to a proper specialist supplier of such systems like:


https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/custom/daw-digital-audio-workstation-pcs/workstation-laptops



They only supply laptops that pass tests the vast majority fail. I bought one of theirs in 2019. It was the only model that made the cut out of the 11 they were testing at the time.


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## nyxl (May 3, 2022)

Thanks for the comments everyone, there is a lot of valuable information in there for me!

@widescreen The Schenker notebooks look very good to me, they seem like the thing I was looking for - no graphics card, configurable and upgradeable RAM for fair prices, lots of ports - thanks for the tip! I'm looking at the Schenker Media 14 right now ( https://bestware.com/en/schenker-media-14.html ). It's a lot cheaper than the Vision 14, but only has a slightly weaker processor (i7-1165G7, though the lower wattage might be better to avoid overheating), and I don't mind the size / weight / lower screen resolution / lower battery life. Are there other reasons you would prefer the Vision 14?

Any MacBook with decent RAM sizes exceeds my budget, but they're probably good if you like working with MacOS.
The XPS 13 Plus looks great, but it seems to have decidedly few ports, so it's not for me.


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## widescreen (May 3, 2022)

nyxl said:


> Thanks for the comments everyone, there is a lot of valuable information in there for me!
> 
> @widescreen The Schenker notebooks look very good to me, they seem like the thing I was looking for - no graphics card, configurable and upgradeable RAM for fair prices, lots of ports - thanks for the tip! I'm looking at the Schenker Media 14 right now ( https://bestware.com/en/schenker-media-14.html ). It's a lot cheaper than the Vision 14, but only has a slightly weaker processor (i7-1165G7, though the lower wattage might be better to avoid overheating), and I don't mind the size / weight / lower screen resolution / lower battery life. Are there other reasons you would prefer the Vision 14?
> 
> ...


I think the Media has only 1 SSD-Port. If that's no problem...

Glad that my tip helped you! 😃


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## IgneousOne (May 3, 2022)

nyxl said:


> Hi all,
> 
> since I will have to use a mobile setup for a while, I'm currently looking for a (Windows) laptop.
> I want to use Cubase, HOOPUS, BBCSO Core, Afflatus and some other Kontakt libraries, which I have on an external SSD that I'm currently using with my desktop PC.
> ...


Hi,
I had a laptop with a AMD Ryzen 4800U cpu, it barely went to it's turbo speed (the U being low wattage) and performance was considerably worse on battery. Wasn't a great choice...


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## mussnig (May 3, 2022)

IgneousOne said:


> Hi,
> I had a laptop with a AMD Ryzen 4800U cpu, it barely went to it's turbo speed (the U being low wattage) and performance was considerably worse on battery. Wasn't a great choice...


Actually that CPU can perform quite well but performance of a laptop CPU very much depends on cooling solutions and energy management/BIOS settings. Sadly, end users can't do much about this in most cases (especially since the BIOS is often locked or stripped down for the end user).


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## tressie5 (May 3, 2022)

My HP laptop is a Ryzen 5 2500U with integrated Vega 8 graphics, 16Gb RAM, 500Gb SSD. In the beginning, it was slow and stuttered playing graphic-intensive games and programming music in Studio One. This led me to start looking for alternatives on Amazon and Newegg. As time went on, the graphics driver improved. I also switched from Window 10 to 11, switched from Studio One to Cubase 12, swapped out the Presonus click-laden ASIO driver for ASIO4All, and optimized the machine as best as I could. Also, given that I primarily create electronica and not sample-heavy music, the load is less on my computer. In other words, this three-year-old clunker of mine seems to be holding up fine for now.


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## IgneousOne (May 4, 2022)

mussnig said:


> Actually that CPU can perform quite well but performance of a laptop CPU very much depends on cooling solutions and energy management/BIOS settings. Sadly, end users can't do much about this in most cases (especially since the BIOS is often locked or stripped down for the end user).


The CPU looked good on paper but didn't perform brilliantly in the (Lenovo) Laptop. Yes, the BIOS was very rudimentary and changing ther power settings to 'High Performance' (and all manner of other tweaks) didn't help.


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## mussnig (May 4, 2022)

IgneousOne said:


> The CPU looked good on paper but didn't perform brilliantly in the (Lenovo) Laptop. Yes, the BIOS was very rudimentary and changing ther power settings to 'High Performance' (and all manner of other tweaks) didn't help.


If you look at certain CPU benchmarks on Notebookcheck you can see that their performance in different laptops can vary greatly (also depends of course how many laptops they have tested with that particular CPU). Also, sometimes updates can improve the situation a lot (happened with some Lenovo last summer IIRC).

E.g. look at the benchmarks they have for the Core i7-11800H (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i7-11800H-Processor-Benchmarks-and-Specs.525586.0.html)
They have tested (depending on the benchmark) more than 37 laptops with this CPU. The differences in single core benchmarks are not large because for those the termal limit is most of the times not a problem. But with multi core benchmarks there are laptops that perform twice as good as the worst ones - all with the same CPU.


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## Quasar (May 4, 2022)

My own amateur opinion is that gaming laptops are the best bet for avoiding thermal throttling, since gamers constitute about the only mainstream laptop market that values performance over uber-light portability, cooling & battery efficiency etc.

I needed a laptop for assisting with live-streaming, occasional field recording and light portable DAW and video editing work, and bought an ASUS Rog Strix something with a Ryzen 5900HX, 1TB SSD, 16GB memory (upgradable) and a 3060 GPU...

...It's been super zippy, though I'm not loading massive VI templates. Anything requiring more than 16GB of RAM would be transferred to my desktop anyway. I'm quite happy with it after taming/turning off some of the NVIDIA stuff.


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## rgames (May 4, 2022)

A couple things that people often miss when looking at a laptop for DAW use:

First, a larger laptop with internal storage is *vastly* more convenient than a smaller laptop with external storage. I have 6 TB in my 15" Dell laptop that is now a few years old. I think most 15" laptops will fit at least three NVMe drives.

Second, smaller laptops with high-power processors often have trouble dissipating heat because they're so crammed. That leads to two problems: first, you're more likely to find that you can't get full performance because the machine throttles down the CPU. And second, your fan likely will run more often and much louder than it would with a larger laptop.

So make sure you weigh those factors in your decision.

Regarding processor, I don't think it matters much these days as long as you get something with at least 6 cores / 12 threads. As in the desktop world, processor speed is much more important than core count. For RAM, 32 GB is a minimum for what you want to do - I'd strongly suggest 64 GB.

FWIW my laptop is a Dell precision 7530 6C/12T with 64 GB RAM and 6 TB NVMe storage. I can run full orchestral mockups with several common libraries (VSL, HOOPUS, Spitfire, etc.) and pretty typical voice densities at about 12 ms latency.

Regarding LatencyMon, it's useful for diagnosing problems but it doesn't really tell you which computer is the better DAW if neither indicates a problem. For that you just gotta run the DAW.

Cheers,

rgames


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## PedroPH (May 4, 2022)

I'll add this: I have a very nice gamer laptop, and it's working great for music. But it has an SDD of 500 GB. I wish I could easily add another one. I have an extra slot, but I would have to dismantle the whole thing in order to do it, even the motherboard. The same if I wanted to add RAM. Don't get a laptop like that. Get a laptop like my previous one: I removed its cover, and the HDD was right there. The same with RAM. Piece of cake. Or buy it with max memory and drives in place.


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## mussnig (May 4, 2022)

rgames said:


> I think most 15" laptops will fit at least three NVMe drives.


They should but sadly most of them have two slots at most.


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## ok_tan (Aug 11, 2022)

i have an asus rog strix 15" 2019 with two slots for ssd, sata + m2 nvme. memory upgradable to 64 GB. the cooling system is good, i live in indonesia, it can handle the temperatures here. the cooling has a manual mode which lets you input your own prefered settings.
win 11, cubase artist 12. i dont do big orchestral projects and the laptop handles everything easily, except Cycles by slate & ash, which is a known cpu hog 

once the asus rog strix scar 2022 and ddr5 ram become cheaper, i will replace my older laptop with it. in indonesia good gamer laptops have a good resell value, i will get around 70% of the price for my old laptop if I sell it this year.


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