# For The Love Of Analog Synths



## Ned Bouhalassa (May 13, 2010)

Hey,

I just bought my first vintage synth, a Roland System 101. Anyone else have some analog goodies to share?


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## spectrum (May 13, 2010)

Congrats Ned and welcome to the analog gear lust club! 

I love the sound of the filters on the older SH series Rolands....not super well known, but they are really special.

Some funny history with those models:

People literally laughed at those models when they were released and Roland got NO respect at all for those units, because they are so much thinner sounding than the Moogs of the same era.

However, today it's that great midrange character that's so hard to find....precisely what the old SH series excels at! 

Enjoy!


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## chimuelo (May 13, 2010)

Yepp sure do. And Joe Zawinul sure knew the worth of the Roland FIlters.

I use an ancient semi rare EML-101 Modular Analog live along with the rackmounted Studio Electronics SE-1.
I prefer 3 and 4 Oscillators with real Analog becasue of the thick sound palette.
You'll quickly notice the huge difference between the real deal and the virtual synths. But I must have both Analog and Digital.
I just know better than to try and use Virtual for Analog emulations.
The virtuals have a huge advantage over analog in variety of sounds and routings. But they will never accurately recreate the authentic circuit sound and Filters of a real analog.
101's are tough.........Congrats.

http://forums.planetz.com/download/file.php?id=7313
Here's why I use them.
FF to the end if you find the music unbearable. Its a meger attempt at doing jazz on a sequencer using an analog synth. The bass part is virtual, the analog comes in after Scarbee's Rhodes licks.


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## spectrum (May 13, 2010)

Nice! The EML is phenomenal. Only the hardcore synth guys know how great it sounds.


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## lux (May 13, 2010)

nice stuff guys, keep em comin'


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 14, 2010)

Hey Eric, have you ever owned an Elka Synthex? Sounds amazing in this example mp3 (the envelopes are so fast):

http://www.fsgdc.at/download/Synthex_workshop.mp3


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## chimuelo (May 14, 2010)

Great demo.
Haven't seen one of those in ages. Very underrated Polyphonic synth. 
Nice snappy envelopes too.
When you hear Plucked sounds coming off so well from an analog synth, its a great way to test the evelopes quality.
Also slight Modulated LFO's like in the beautiful demo above are a great natural feature. In my DSP synths I use about 12 various PModifiers modulated by Envelopes or Uni/BiPolar LFO's to capture that random detuning/drift.
I actually get a super snappy envelope with my DSP Modular Envelope choices.
They've been my polyphonic choice for 12 years now.
It seems I have been drawn into Omnisphere recently.
I hear it with my Analogs while I dream at night...................... :mrgreen: 
Here's some HillBilly Zither style Envelopes.....
Natural detuning too. Much more prefferable.
I can apply the depth of detune from so many sources simulataneosly.
These are the benefits of digital synthesis that Analog cannot attain.
The very last strum gets natural detune via the Sustain Pedal CC # 64.
Also a very underrated synth was Allen Pearlmans Odyssey.
The layout of signal flow and options made that a great live instrument.
Nice video from an avid ARP lover. 

http://forums.planetz.com/download/file.php?id=7416
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bacxgzseUvo


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## spectrum (May 14, 2010)

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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 14, 2010)

Love the Odyssey demo, Chimuelo! Great find. Sounds wicked.


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## germancomponist (May 14, 2010)

Should I post a picture from the old Casio CZ 101/1000?

In the 80`s, I have worked as a sounddesigner and did also a lot of sounds for this cool little Casio things. They were not bad at all.


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## chimuelo (May 14, 2010)

Well in case you don't show a jpeg. I happen to have had these made after seriously busting the DSP Coder for S|Cs' balls because I loved the Casio, especially the PMod stuff.
But these are really accurate DSP 1:1 emu's and can make my Modular creations so much fun.
To the live performer, digital VSTi's are his weapons, Analog...........a way of life.


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## snowleopard (May 14, 2010)

Here goes one of those "I'm so old..." posts. 

I once owned an Arp Odyssey, Pro-1, Prophet 600, CZ-101, and a Chroma Polaris (plus a bunch of old digital gear). The only thing I have left is the Polaris, sitting in a friend's collector's studio. It belongs there with his Prophet-5, Jupiter-8, OBXa, Minimoog, Arp 2600, etc. 

That Elka sounds great. Makes me think of Vintage TD, Franke-Froese-Schmoelling era. I also hear JMJ's Les Chants Magnetiques and RendezVous in there, I believe.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 16, 2010)

I'm on a roll! I'm getting a Roland Alpha Juno 2 later this week at a low price. I hear they sound great, and it will be used for its polyphony, since my first analog is mono. I'll control it with this:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 17, 2010)

Remember that System 101 I bought last week? So passé! I'm buying this baby instead, and selling the System 101 later this week. This one is so special! A Roland SH-5:


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## chimuelo (May 17, 2010)

I am sure you'll get around to routing your Analog hardware into your DAW.
Thats where the rubber hits the road IMHO.
Sure Analog is cool for many things but there's nothing that sounds better to my ears than an Analog synth with DSP or DAW based effects.
Below is an example of my live project where I have the extrernal AES/EBU converters bring in the EML-101.
The 6 AUX design of the mixer allows me to use endless MIDI controlled FX live and I never sounded this good when all hardware effects were used.
For example, the PCM41/42's and Roland Space Echo were nice back then but my DSP emulations are way beyond those basic effects.
This is why I firmly believe in hybrid based rigs.
Put those Rolands through a quality effect where you can have MIDI CC Controlled effects.
Those Dogs from Roland Will Hunt.......


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## synthetic (May 17, 2010)

Here is one of my synth rigs. Top to bottom: Moog Voyager, Alesis Andromeda, MOTM modular synthesizer. 




Larger version (I hate the tiny image restriction on this board): http://www.jefflaity.com/misc_pix/jlaity_motm_0510.jpg

The Voyager just got replaced with a Studio Electronics Midimoog, vintage Minimoog parts in a rack case with MIDI. I just bought it in Japan, amazing sound. I'm very happy. :D 

Not pictured is a Roland MKS-80 Super Jupiter with programmer. 

See my photos from Japan, I took a bunch of shots of Five G where I bought my Moog. 

http://gallery.laityphoto.com/v/jeff/20100510_japan/


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## synthetic (May 17, 2010)

My FiveG report that I posted on a synth board, includes a pic of my new synth:

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=223845


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 17, 2010)

Oh wow, love that pictorial report - you look so happy! I would die in a place like that. Make that: a place like that is where I want to go when I die. :wink:


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## spectrum (May 18, 2010)

snowleopard @ Fri May 14 said:


> Here goes one of those "I'm so old..." posts.
> 
> I once owned an Arp Odyssey, Pro-1, Prophet 600, CZ-101, and a Chroma Polaris (plus a bunch of old digital gear). The only thing I have left is the Polaris, sitting in a friend's collector's studio. It belongs there with his Prophet-5, Jupiter-8, OBXa, Minimoog, Arp 2600, etc.
> 
> That Elka sounds great. Makes me think of Vintage TD, Franke-Froese-Schmoelling era. I also hear JMJ's Les Chants Magnetiques and RendezVous in there, I believe.


Yep. JMJ was a big fan of the Synthex.


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## spectrum (May 18, 2010)

synthetic @ Mon May 17 said:


> The Voyager just got replaced with a Studio Electronics Midimoog, vintage Minimoog parts in a rack case with MIDI. I just bought it in Japan, amazing sound. I'm very happy. :D


Very smart move....that's what I use too. 

Not many people know about the SE MIDImoogs anymore, but they are the best!


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## spectrum (May 18, 2010)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Mon May 17 said:


> Remember that System 101 I bought last week? So passé! I'm buying this baby instead, and selling the System 101 later this week. This one is so special! A Roland SH-5:


Most EXCELLENT Ned!! 

The SH-5 is the big daddy....really phenomenal sounding and quite rare too!


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## spectrum (May 18, 2010)

germancomponist @ Fri May 14 said:


> Should I post a picture from the old Casio CZ 101/1000?
> 
> In the 80`s, I have worked as a sounddesigner and did also a lot of sounds for this cool little Casio things. They were not bad at all.


Not bad at all...but also not analog.


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## germancomponist (May 18, 2010)

spectrum @ Tue May 18 said:


> germancomponist @ Fri May 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Should I post a picture from the old Casio CZ 101/1000?
> ...



Oops, you are right. Same with my old Yamaha TX 802 and TX-7.

2 years ago I sold an old Crumar Bit01 what sounded very cool. The only thing I have is one bass-sound as a Kontakt instrument.

If you all like, feel free to download it here: http://www.box.net/shared/97s1ul211h


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## chimuelo (May 18, 2010)

Way to go Jeff...... 8) 
I remember when you bought the Voyager you seemed so unexcited.
The jpeg says it all.
The guys at SE are simply saviors of Analog synthesis IMHO.
I am ashamed I never went to FiveG after being to Japan. I had no idea it was such a fine collection of synths.
You now have the Bass/Lead package with the A6 covering the poly'd parts................sweet.
Solaris Production just started last week in Seigberg and I should have my unit within 30 days. The Z Man has the first 2 units, and at #009 I should see mine shortly thereafter.
Below is the old white prototype. Mine is black and will have the LED Wheels, and the new Ribbon is now 20 inches and sits in the lower mid/right section. It will also be LED backlit.
I'd love to have the Sequential set up below, but Solaris should be fine for mono/poly work.
I'd love to hear the MOTM's & MIDIMoog getting FAT....


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 18, 2010)

Woah! That Solaris looks/reads like a killer machine. You should love it!!

I now see that I might look at a Studio Electronics SE-1X to complete my setup, since Moogs are so expensive.


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## chimuelo (May 18, 2010)

Not knocking the Moog here as it is a great synth.
But the extra filters, and envelope tweaks that a modern SE-1 can have, plus the upgradability w/ MIDI and other treats make the SE-1 a much more versatile synth.
Moogs are worthy of Viking Funerals and have decades of proof for that particular sound. Of course I would love a MIDIMoog too.
But since I can already do Moog style Bass/Lead & FX on the SE-1's, I had to try and keep my family together during my purchasing sprees.
You should be able to get an SE-1 on ebay for 600 bucks.
But keep in mind the stock envelopes on the SE-1/SE-1X's are not snappy.
The Nove Musik Retro gives me some real snap.
Some say it sounds metallic, but I totally disagree. The exact components are needed, and usually it's the DIY guys who complain, of course as they try and promote their upgrade path.
Here's an SE-1 using the Oberheim Filter at it's most suttle resonant setting.
Solaris plug in doing the melody.
http://forums.planetz.com/download/file.php?id=7303


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 18, 2010)

Is it possible to date early Rolands by their serial number?


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## synthetic (May 18, 2010)

Ned, there is a great set of books by Peter Forrest called "The A to Z of Analog Synthesisers" (he's British). If you're gonna start collecting (or even if you aren't), I highly recommend those. Very thorough and opinionated. I'll try to remember to check the SH-5 entry when I get home. 

Of course Spectrum wins all of the analog synth collection threads, unless Hans wants to check in.  I still want a CS-80 someday, and a guy to fix it like the vintage Ferrari it is. 

Chimuelo, yeah my friend at Remote Control told me to buy the Midimoog in the first place and I should have listened. It is so killer. Music coming soon (also FiveG video.)

Listening to Redshift right now, nice Berlin-school ambient.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 18, 2010)

Thanks for all the great info guys!


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## Ed (May 18, 2010)

synthetic @ Tue May 18 said:


> Of course Spectrum wins all of the analog synth collection threads, unless Hans wants to check in.  I still want a CS-80 someday, and a guy to fix it like the vintage Ferrari it is.
> .



I think Eric and Hans should have a synth battle, like a hip hob battle. That would be awesome


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## synthetic (May 18, 2010)

SH-5 was produced from spring 76 - 1981. It only lists one "typical serial number" in the A-Z, 490924. Announced in the Mar/Apr '76 issue of Contemporary Keyboard (now called Keyboard). 

If you want to geek on synths for hours, I highly recommend the A-Z. Nice bedtime reading.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 19, 2010)

Thanks Jeff, but I have to find it first! Amazon seems to be out of stock. I'll keep a geek eye out for it.


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## germancomponist (May 19, 2010)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue May 18 said:


> Is it possible to date early Rolands by their serial number?



Ned, what is the serial number from your Roland Alpha Juno 2?

Mine is 704915.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 19, 2010)

I'm still all virtual synths here, one baby supposed to arrive today, Alpha Juno 2 I will pick up tomorrow. I'll let you know!


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## synthetic (May 19, 2010)

Bummer, contact Peter here:

http://www.vemia.co.uk/susurreal/catalogue.html


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 19, 2010)

Thanks Jeff!

I did end up finding one on Amazon (Part 1), but the seller wants 100 bucks. I'll try contacting the author directly.


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## germancomponist (May 19, 2010)

...and noone liked my Bit01 Bass-Instrument.... .:-( :mrgreen:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 19, 2010)

Gunther,

Is that you on the right?


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## germancomponist (May 19, 2010)

Maybe I was drunken when they did this photo? Lol

No, I am not.... .

But who is this?


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## synthetic (May 19, 2010)

I had a CZ-101, nice fat bass sound actually. (But not analog.) 

My other purchase in Japan was a BOSS Dimension C pedal, nice yummy analog chorus. Sounds great on Andromeda pads.


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## chimuelo (May 20, 2010)

Thats Bruce Springsteen ans Isao Tomita when they stillhad some in their Pencils............
Ankyu


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## snowleopard (May 22, 2010)

This thread has me so happy. :D 

That Solaris looks like an awesome machine. 

Thanks for the photos, synthetic, nice to see someone with and using an Andromeda. What a beautiful sounding synth that is.

Do any of you guys feel like you betrayed your old synths when selling them? I gave up my beloved Prophet-600 over twenty years ago now and it feels like I gave my child away at times. I only wish I had written down the SN# and could track it down. I spent hours, days, weeks, tweaking that thing. Some of the happiest times of my life.


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## synthetic (May 24, 2010)

The only time I felt like I was betraying my synth was when I sold my Wavestation, this super cool digital dream machine. Part of the reason I sold it was because I used it on everything and it was starting to sound dated! Anyway I put it on Craigslist and this guy calls me. He was actually looking for an M1 but would settle for the Wavestation if it had the same kinds of sounds. It turns out he was in a mariachi band and he just needed an accordian/trumpet split and an accordian/saxophone split. Such an awful fate for that cool synth. :( 

So if you ever see a mariachi band with a Wavestation(!) that could be mine.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 24, 2010)

I remember the wavestation as being quite cold though - is my memory fading? Or is the wavesequencing that you miss? I also remember it has being a PITA to program.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 24, 2010)

While we're on the subject, buy the latest LCD Soundsystem. For the love of analog synths. :wink: It's sorta like if the Talking Heads and the Chemical Bros had a child.


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## spectrum (May 24, 2010)

synthetic @ Wed May 19 said:


> My other purchase in Japan was a BOSS Dimension C pedal, nice yummy analog chorus.


One of my secret weapons from my session days. 

I had mine modified with separate rate and depth controls and had it installed in my custom analog mixer so I could run any combination of sounds through it via dedicated sends.


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## C M Dess (May 24, 2010)

I like the sound of that roland. At the moment though, I'm dying for a korg Radias. 8) 







My roommate (drummer) has a prophet 600 and sh-101....I sampled them for various things and was impressed. The vintage hardware is more "angry" sounding to me. It's blunt and rude. Reminded me of the Audity 2000 I use to own which had a lot of samples from old E-mu pieces. Sounds like the electricity is feuding in between oscillations. Even basic timbre has this agitated/disgruntled effect. Unhappy circuits. Or maybe it's just the RFI interference in this building. I suppose some would call it "richness" and it that it is.  

Of course a valve grinder supplements such tones nicely too. 0oD

Related to modularity:
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2009/04/ ... r-finally/


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## C M Dess (May 25, 2010)

I bought the analog factory experience for a friend, some very well prepped vintage synths and the keyboard was pretty decent for the price. The nobs were pre-mapped to the most effective parameters of a given analog model. Nice and foolproof.

This thread is crying out for a link to this collection:
http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/products/v-collection/details.html (http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/pro ... tails.html)


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## spectrum (May 25, 2010)

We have a guy here on our team that got a CS-80 at a garage sale for $30 - the lady thought it was an old organ!


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## stonzthro (May 25, 2010)

I love garage sales and old ladies - I got a pristine Rhodes that way!


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 25, 2010)

30$ for a CS-80? >8o >8o >8o Must be a cut-out, like the Hollywood saloons of Westerns past. :mrgreen: 

BTW, got my first vintage delivered today, and a word of advice: if the price of the synth is 66.6% of what it should be based on the market, it's because it needs cleaning and repairs worth 33.3%.
:roll: 
:lol: still happy!


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## synthetic (May 25, 2010)

spectrum @ Mon May 24 said:


> synthetic @ Wed May 19 said:
> 
> 
> > My other purchase in Japan was a BOSS Dimension C pedal, nice yummy analog chorus.
> ...



Nice. I need to modify mine so that the input level isn't so high, it's very easy to distort with synths. I like the four button interface, actually. Super simple. 

I haven't even tried it with the Super Jupiter yet because I'm so happy with the sound from the Andromeda. Perhaps I need another one (or a Dimension D).  

Oh Ned, the Wavestation wasn't really cold at all, but it was transparent. Which was nice because it wouldn't take over a track like an Andromeda might, you still have room for other stuff in there. The Super Jupiter is easier to mix with, you can layer it and still have room for other stuff (mine is a Rev5).


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## spectrum (May 25, 2010)

The grooviest trick with the Super Jupiter is to use two of them, panned left and right and then mix in a little Dimension C.

Made a lot of great sounds with that combo. 

Still, I don't really miss my Super Jupiters now that I have the JP-8. It's still the king of the Roland polys tone-wise IMHO.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 25, 2010)

Now, some people might get the dimension... I mean impression that the point of this thread was to get Eric to spill a few beans about his quasi-magical sound design techniques. But rest assured... :wink: =o


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## synthetic (May 25, 2010)

spectrum @ Tue May 25 said:


> The grooviest trick with the Super Jupiter is to use two of them, panned left and right and then mix in a little Dimension C.
> 
> Made a lot of great sounds with that combo.



Cool. More is more. 



> Still, I don't really miss my Super Jupiters now that I have the JP-8. It's still the king of the Roland polys tone-wise IMHO.



Better presets?  I've read that you voiced the presets based on the DX-7, instead of playing to the strengths of the units. I guess that makes sense in the climate of 1986 or so. 

Yeah I'd love a real Jupiter 8 someday. It's probably the coolest looking synthesizer ever, and the sound is just killer.


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## chimuelo (May 25, 2010)

Great Idea using 2 x SupJup's with the dimC pedal.
Old tricks like that are so much easier these days.
Back then I used 2 x Ensoniq Mirages w/ the Santana SG Guitar FDD.
PBend value of 1 on #1, and PBend value of 2 on #2.
Worked great for any leads actually, even the silly Fiddle FDD too.... /\~O


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## cc64 (May 26, 2010)

Here's my old buddy. Oberheim Matrix 12. My first big synth. Come to think of it my last too...

I took a mortgage on it in 1986 and have only 12 more payments to go. Then i could buy new shoes and a shirt ; )

It's lost a tooth but still sounds great...


Claude


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 26, 2010)

C'est bien beau, Claude! Mieux que ta tuque!

Having found out only after buying it that the Juno 2's filters sweep in steps instead of smoothly (except when using the LFO), I am going to sell it and the PG-300, and am buying a Korg Polysix tomorrow. Sounds like a great machine for the money!


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## snowleopard (May 28, 2010)

Anyone familiar with this guy? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDjXGU75_P0&fmt=18

Michael Daniels. An incredible mostly analog studio in his attic, and a whole lot of talent. Even if much of his work is covers. Really shows just why there is no substitute for hardware (and knowing how to use it). Here's his channel with more vids of his playing and studio: 

http://www.youtube.com/user/mik300z#p/u/33/rDjXGU75_P0

Claude - you know you can get that "tooth" repaired fairly easily. Would certainly be worth it. It's like having a beautiful model in your house who can't smile. 

Agree this is a hardware thread, but props to Arturia for trying to re-create the past in an affordable way. Arp2600 sounds most authentic, JP8 least, IMO. Roland really needs to re-manufacture and re-release the Jupiter-8. Or at the very least a Juno with DCO's and VCFs.


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## snowleopard (May 28, 2010)

chimuelo @ Fri May 28 said:


> Very similar to a NYC gal in the '80;s named Suzzanne Ciani......plus she was a serious babe w/ a Synclavier too....


Dream girl for sure. I remember her well.


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## chimuelo (May 29, 2010)

http://music.hyperreal.org/delia/Delia% ... bps%5d.mp3

Here's the original synth babe from the 60's.....Delia.
She was looping and sampling long before I even heard of it.
I was just learning Suzie Q. and Purple Haze on Guitar when she was jamming out.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 30, 2010)

Woah! Tape, a sensitive artist and (perhaps) electroacoustic techniques? My heart flutters, wobbles, flanges... :D


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## synthetic (May 30, 2010)

Ned, Chris Randall is making a T-shirt based on the CS-5 filter, go get one. He also maòÒã   ÕpÐÒã   ÕpÑÒã   ÕpÒÒã   ÕpÓÒã   ÕpÔÒã   ÕpÕÒã   ÕpÖÒã   Õp×Òã   ÕpØÒã   ÕpÙÒã   ÕpÚÒã   ÕpÛÒã   ÕpÜÒã   ÕpÝÒã   ÕpÞ


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 30, 2010)

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm holding out for one based on my SH-5. :wink:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 30, 2010)

At less than 150 US, this just jumped out at me and said, "Buy me, you fool!" - so I did!  Thanks for the tip, gentlemen.


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## C M Dess (Jun 1, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/user/retrosound72

8)

organic, fluid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN2oQmTszkI


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 1, 2010)

One thing I hadn't figured on is the fun of trading old synths! This can get pretty addictive >8o . I've now decided to trade my very recent addition from Korg, the Polysix, plus some cash (from selling my MS2000) for a Yamaha CS-50! I hear it's heavy, but nowhere near as heavy as the CS-80. Vangelis, here I come... :lol:


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## synthetic (Jun 1, 2010)

Wow, sweet!

Here's an updated pic with my new Moog. :D

http://www.jefflaity.com/misc_pix/analogz.jpg


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 1, 2010)

Hey Jeff, that MidiMoog looks very fat! I'm a bit jealous. Given that I'm now forcing myself to wear a very, very tight leash spending-wise, the closest I'll come to moog fatness will be when I find a good deal on a Realistic MG-1! ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE7aQpA4XVA )


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 1, 2010)

On a related note, what would you recommend in terms of analog delay, with a budget of less than 250? I was thinking of the BOSS DM-3, or the MXR Analog Delay (not the carbon copy one). Other ideas?


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## synthetic (Jun 1, 2010)

I bought an EHX Memory Boy and I love it. You can find them for $80. If you want to spend more, the Deluxe Memory Man is a classic. Spend even more and get a Roland Space Echo, Lexicon PCM41 or Fulltone Tube Tape Echo. (Last two are over your budget, but you can sometimes find a Space Echo for ~$300)


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 1, 2010)

Thanks guys! I'm going hunting for a Memory Boy or the big brother. =o


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 1, 2010)

synthetic @ 1/6/2010 said:


> ... you can sometimes find a Space Echo for ~$300



Very, very unlikely, I'm afraid! :( :lol:


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## synthetic (Jun 1, 2010)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Jun 01 said:


> synthetic @ 1/6/2010 said:
> 
> 
> > ... you can sometimes find a Space Echo for ~$300
> ...



I saw them selling for that in Tokyo (30,000 Yen). But probably much more on eBay. I think I've seen some cheaper ones at Muffs. I usually just use plug-ins, honestly, except on my guitar rig. 

If you're this into analog synths, check out the forums at muffwiggler.com. But be careful because you might buy a modular synth... "Just a small Euro system..." :shock:


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## spectrum (Jun 2, 2010)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Jun 01 said:


> One thing I hadn't figured on is the fun of trading old synths! This can get pretty addictive >8o . I've now decided to trade my very recent addition from Korg, the Polysix, plus some cash (from selling my MS2000) for a Yamaha CS-50! I hear it's heavy, but nowhere near as heavy as the CS-80. Vangelis, here I come... :lol:


Don't expect Vangelis to come out of that one.

Big difference between the CS-50 and the CS-80.

You'll likely be disappointed...definitely not worth the weight.


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## spectrum (Jun 2, 2010)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Jun 01 said:


> Hey Jeff, that MidiMoog looks very fat! I'm a bit jealous.


Warranted. 

I will NEVER part with my MIDIMoog.....it's the best sounding analog synth I own.



> Given that I'm now forcing myself to wear a very, very tight leash spending-wise, the closest I'll come to moog fatness will be when I find a good deal on a Realistic MG-1! ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE7aQpA4XVA )


Not recommended....the Realistic Moog is really, really lame and limited.

That's a great example of the "everything analog with Bob Moog's name on it must be awesome" trend going on right now.

Save your money and get a Little Phatty Stage II....WAY better inexpensive Moog that's truly analog and really capable too....great price, great craftmanship.


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## spectrum (Jun 2, 2010)

synthetic @ Tue Jun 01 said:


> I bought an EHX Memory Boy and I love it. You can find them for $80. If you want to spend more, the Deluxe Memory Man ...Lexicon PCM41...)


These are pretty noisy though....not great on the sound quality side.

If you really want a good truly analog delay, the Moogerfooger one is quite nice and doesn't suffer the same problems.

However, this is what I use with my analog synths now and it's really great sounding and you can get tons of great effects out of it:


http://line6.com/tonecore/echoPark.html

Ideally, I'd recommend using it on a aux loop, because it is digital and that way you won't be converting the dry signal of your analog synths at all.

It does the Tape Echo and Analog Delay speed-up tricks brilliantly. Highly recommended! 

Just used it today on my Theremin for my kids class and it sounded pretty authentic!


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 2, 2010)

spectrum @ 2/6/2010 said:


> Don't expect Vangelis to come out of that one.
> 
> Big difference between the CS-50 and the CS-80.
> 
> You'll likely be disappointed...definitely not worth the weight.



OK, so maybe I'm exaggerating with the Vangelis reference, but there's no way I'm going to convince my wife that my latest passion is worth spending 12 or 15 grand on a single synth! I think I'll practice on this one for a while until I score the next Bruckheimer film. :mrgreen:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 2, 2010)

spectrum @ 2/6/2010 said:


> Not recommended....the Realistic Moog is really, really lame and limited.
> 
> That's a great example of the "everything analog with Bob Moog's name on it must be awesome" trend going on right now.
> 
> Save your money and get a Little Phatty Stage II....WAY better inexpensive Moog that's truly analog and really capable too....great price, great craftmanship.



Thanks for the advice - that's exactly what I'll do!


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## synthetic (Jun 2, 2010)

I had an Echo Park and never bonded with it. Not the same mojo as my Memory Boy, which is not noisy. (I don't think it has a whole lot to do with the Memory Man besides being analog.) I didn't bond with my Voyager either, I guess I'm super picky. 

I thought the CS-50 had a bit in common with the CS-80, or is it the CS-60? See this is why you need the A-Z. There's a long chapter on this series and the differences between them. 

More info on the CS-series:
http://www.jhaible.de/jh_cs50.html


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 2, 2010)

I got this from Old Crow's Synth Shop:



> Although the CS-80 is in a class by itself, this does not mean the CS-50 and 60 aren't quality instruments. In fact, some things are better done on a CS-50 than the 80 simply due to the fell of the keyboard action. The CS-80 has the ideal touch for those who prefer the piano, but the CS-50 and to a lesser degree the CS-60--I say lesser because the action is longer and thus a little less crisp due to the extra mass--are very good at sharp attack-style notes and chords--something that just can't be done on a weight keyboard.
> Part of this is based on the fact the aftertouch, though monophonic, is not based on force sensing resistors but instead on a light source and photoresistor. The photoresistor alone has "fast to lose resistance, slow regain resistance" that imparts a sort of fixed attack-release that sound very nice as part of a pizzacato or staccato playing style for a given phrase. On the CS-50, with the lower-inertia 49-note keyboard, for a composer this is a very useful tool.
> 
> Since the CS-50 shares the exact same voice cards (save for some resistor values changed to select octaves differently than the '80), any sound is directly transferrable from one channel of the CS-80 to the CS-50 or CS-60. Since all three machines have the exact same ring modulator and controls, the same "breath phrasing" can be applied. Vangelis is a master of this technique.



That said, Spectrum is the master blaster, so I do not expect ton achieve analog nirvana, just something that sounds very musical, as demonstrated here (watch your sub-woofers, man!)


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## chimuelo (Jun 2, 2010)

The CS-80 is overrated. The only feature that need be mentioned is the Filter structure, and its unique Super Band Pass quality.
Sure back then it was the big poly beast, I used it occassionally becasue I got suckered by Yamahas magic and the cool sounds of " Afrcia " by Toto.
The Prophet V and Oberheims basically caused the CS80 to fade away.
I never even touched the other CS's but obviously the CS80 wasn't selling well, and hence thier inception.
Casios, and Yamahas..... versus........ Oberheims, Sequential and Roland, is like comparing a clock radio to a car stereo.
Some folks like the thinner qualities though.
I had a rich crackhead neighbor who had a killer Boston Acoustic stereo. He usually preferred to tip toe around and look out the blinds over the backdrop of a barely audible clock radio instead of his 6000 USD stereo.......go figure.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 2, 2010)

chimuelo @ 2/6/2010 said:


> I never even touched the other CS's but obviously the CS80 wasn't selling well, and hence thier inception.



Actually, the CS-50 was the first one, followed a year or so later by the other two.



chimuelo @ 2/6/2010 said:


> Casios, and Yamahas..... versus........ Oberheims, Sequential and Roland, is like comparing a clock radio to a car stereo.
> Some folks like the thinner qualities though.



Well, you wouldn't want to try to get your car stereo to wake you up! Unless you sleep in your car, of course.

Also, the thinness of the CS series was good enough for what is arguably the best sci-fi soundtrack of all time. Finally, take 1 minute and listen to the first minute of this video. Hopefully you have a subwoofer hooked up when viewing internet videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck2mSRBWiUU


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## spectrum (Jun 2, 2010)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed Jun 02 said:


> I got this from Old Crow's Synth Shop:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I used to own a CS-60 and played a CS-50 for a while too before I got my dream instrument, which is the CS-80.

I can tell you from many years of playing these that the CS-80 is in a completely differently league sonically....it actually sounds quite different from the CS-60 and the 50.

THe CS-50 was by far the weakest sounding of the three, so I wouldn't recommend that one.


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## spectrum (Jun 2, 2010)

synthetic @ Wed Jun 02 said:


> I had an Echo Park and never bonded with it. Not the same mojo as my Memory Boy, which is not noisy. (I don't think it has a whole lot to do with the Memory Man besides being analog.)


Cool...I'll check out the Memory Boy then....I was thinking of the old Memory Man, which sounds super vibey, but comes with a lot of negatives too.


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## spectrum (Jun 2, 2010)

chimuelo @ Wed Jun 02 said:


> The CS-80 is overrated. The only feature that need be mentioned is the Filter structure, and its unique Super Band Pass quality.


Sorry to disagree with you, but it is a very, very special instrument.

I think you are forgetting the velocity sensitivity and easily the best and only really good poly aftertouch keyboard ever produced.



> Sure back then it was the big poly beast, I used it occassionally becasue I got suckered by Yamahas magic and the cool sounds of " Afrcia " by Toto.


Nah...that was all done with GS-1/DX-7 FM stuff.

The CS-80 is really a special instrument in terms of expression and sound. The Ring Modulator is quite awesome on it too....I could go on and on about what makes it unique compared to other polyphonic analogs.



> The Prophet V and Oberheims basically caused the CS80 to fade away.


Only because they were cheaper, more portable and had microprocessor memory storage.

Not because they sounded better or were more expressive instruments.



> I never even touched the other CS's but obviously the CS80 wasn't selling well, and hence thier inception.


Wrong...the CS-80s were too heavy to produce on a larger scale. So it's basically more of a specialized instrument.

If sales were the only barometer of classic status, we'd be all drooling over crap M-Audio stuff. 



> Casios, and Yamahas..... versus........ Oberheims, Sequential and Roland, is like comparing a clock radio to a car stereo.
> Some folks like the thinner qualities though.


Uhhhh....comparing my CS-80 to a Casio....them's fightin' words bro!


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## spectrum (Jun 2, 2010)

BTW, on this topic....I had an in-depth conversation with someone yesterday about the differences between Assblasters and Assmasters! 

The Assmaster is my next thing to explore.

(Man does that sound totally wrong!)


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 2, 2010)

Dude, just add the missing 'B' and you won't get so many funny looks. :mrgreen: 

You know, it sounds like a freakin' toning machine!


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 2, 2010)

Ned Bouhalassa @ 2/6/2010 said:


> That said, Spectrum is the master blaster, so I do not expect...



BTW, huh, should I edit this to reflect your new obsession?! o


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## synthetic (Jun 2, 2010)

http://metasonix.com/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=70


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## synthetic (Jun 2, 2010)

My CS-80 greatest hits:

Blade Runner Blues
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SJVP4YAybs

Don't Give Up (pad at 1:25)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiCRZLr9oRw

Billie Jean keyboard pad = 4 tracks of CS-80

Bruce Springsteen almost all of the synths on Born in the USA = CS-80

Not sure if I'd spend the $9k they're fetching right now until I have rock star bucks to spend.


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## chimuelo (Jun 2, 2010)

Sorry "Bout that cheif. No offense was meant...
I was in an 11 Piece horn group when I bought the CS80 and it was definately a PITA w/ no crew, but I did enjoy the sound, and PAT was definately the best expression available. They nailed it for sure. I loved voice leading chords especially the Brassier Saw pads.
But I went from that group to a signed act with 4 x Guitars and the CS80 even w/ the Ring Mod wasn't cutting the mix. Plus a B3, Minimoog and OBX were just what I needed back then. 
I also mourned the loss of the excellent Ribbon Controller, and it wasn't until the early '90s when Kurzweil rescued me with the Expressionmate could I pull the tricks off again. One of the main reasons I got in early on the development with Solaris was to hound JBowen about implementing one, even if it wasn't a multiple zoned version.
The clincher for me was when I needed my first repair, and found out the CS80 was discontinued, and even in NYC there was not a single repair shop that would touch it.
A good friend of mine in St.Louis still uses his and has never needed a single repair.
Yamaha made great gear back then, but the CS80 even with an 800 USD Anvil couldn't handle being bounced around by stagehands or luggage nuts.
I still have a QX-1 and DMP7 in mint working condition, with the exception of the white inked commands being rubbed off. Back then Yamaha was on a roll.
But seperate needs and tastes.
If I would have stayed in the Horn Ensemble group I would have kept it, but back then Rock was my trade and the CS80 just wasn't well suited for that.
BTW do you know anyone who can repair it...?
My friend has begged for years to find one in case, but I never even met one back in the '80s who knew how...

My poor Rhodes below looked like the legs were wobbling.
I also found the Chorus switch pretty thin sounding ( all personal taste ) so that's what the Electro Harmonix Electric Mistress was for.
Having the lid up allowed me to tweak the sounds in realtime, and the Mistress was just lush.
I am glad you have kept and enjoyed yours so long, I would have appreciated mine more later on when I went from a rock gig to fusion.
What kills me is that Arturia or anyone can even make a CS80 filter or VSTi claim.
It was the action and PAT as you mentioned that made that Dog a Hunter.

The lo fi jpeg is from the biography written about the drummer.
Maynard and Bill Chase use to come steal his horn sections all the time.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... qQrbNozsog


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 2, 2010)

GREAT post, man! Love the pic... =o


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 6, 2010)

Found a bunch of cool videos featuring my current fave: Vangelis:

Vangelis on the CS80:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Usoz20gXKo (2nd half)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fND-Q8w_AcE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_jsMPiTaqE

Very good cover artist does Blade Runner : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo-xTqgOH-s

Vangelis doing it all live in a studio in 1971! : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wwk-EbxK88


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## chimuelo (Jun 7, 2010)

http://www.google.com/url?url=http://ww ... qJDyagRUtQ

They just don't make 'em this anymore.


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## spectrum (Jun 7, 2010)

chimuelo @ Mon Jun 07 said:


> http://www.google.com/url?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D2z3O7oIoZ9U&rct=j&sa=X&ei=WOIMTLuGN4OQNtfE3bUE&ved=0CCEQuAIwBA&q=tomita+live&usg=AFQjCNFJ1t7h2g4k5Vib9IeuqJDyagRUtQ
> 
> They just don't make 'em this anymore.


An amazing gig for sure. I always thought it was so odd that he didn't play anything and just chose to mix faders up in that pyramid for the whole show.


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## stonzthro (Jun 7, 2010)

Funny, I'm not familiar with his work (yet) and was thinking "Wow, must be a pretty awesome gig for the sound man to show up in a tux (with a sparkly vest)!"


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jul 8, 2010)

2 very cool documentaries featuring oodles of early synths:

Synth Britannia (in 9 parts): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeVRYPjcVXg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeVRYPjc ... re=related)

German Electronic Music History: http://www.vimeo.com/7583109


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