# How many of you have a job in something else other than music prod?



## igwanna (Oct 2, 2018)

Title says it all,
i wonder how many people here are working a diferent jobvb other than music production, and in that case how does music prod/composing fit within yourday-to-day life and why?

for example, im a marketing director full time for 8 years now, decided 2 years ago to make a home studio at my place because its my favorite thing to do. To compose. Actuallym anagied to even get some gigs (mostly non paying) and i started to wonder if i copuld make this my real job, since i believe you shouldnt sell any time of your life for a wage, and should only do what makes you happy..

anyone feeling me? :D


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## tav.one (Oct 2, 2018)

Other than composing & production, I run a small indie label, tiny music academy and a not-for-profit (health, wellbeing & upliftment). As my companies are small, they don't require much of my time but act as a good support in rainy days/months and also keeps things interesting.


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## boxheadboy50 (Oct 2, 2018)

As a result of a MASSIVE amount of student loan debt, I work an 8-5 day job as a contractor for a giant cellular communications company.

While I would much rather make a living writing or producing music, (y'know, USING the degree I paid so much for), I just can't afford to make the jump. At this point, I have doubts that I ever will, and it makes me sad.

Unfortunately, music is just a hobby for me now. If I can squeeze out one or two tracks a year, that's a win for me.


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## whiskers (Oct 2, 2018)

IT guy here, music is strictly a hobby really in free time (that i'm new at and currently suck at )

Would it be nice to quit the day job to do this? Sure, if I was better at it. But there's a huge supply of composers, makes it rather competitive i think.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Oct 2, 2018)

I'm a full time piano and theory teacher


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## whiskers (Oct 2, 2018)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> I'm a full time piano and theory teacher



do you teach adults or just kids? curious if you see a difference in learning styles between the two. Quitting lessons in HS was a big regret for me. Thinking about picking it up again (not for performance factor, but more theory).


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Oct 2, 2018)

whiskers said:


> do you teach adults or just kids? curious if you see a difference in learning styles between the two. Quitting lessons in HS was a big regret for me. Thinking about picking it up again (not for performance factor, but more theory).


It's actually split down the middle for me. Many parents want to get their kids involved in music, but I honestly prefer teaching adults. They have their own drive to learn and understand how music and the piano really works!


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## Jaap (Oct 2, 2018)

I was trained as classical composer, wrote a few symponies and an opera in my early composing years, but then I went to earn money, the more commercial way and though I work full time as composer and sound designer, I actually try to make free time now to actually compose classical music again more and more. Maybe a bit odd example, but they feel like 2 different worlds


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## Michel Simons (Oct 2, 2018)

I'm a software developer (with a degree in psychology...) and making music is just a hobby for me. Apart from the lack of talent, discipline and drive I am not at all interested in turning it into a job.


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## whiskers (Oct 2, 2018)

michelsimons said:


> I'm a software developer (with a degree in psychology...) and making music is just a hobby for me. Apart from the lack of talent, discipline and drive I am not at all interested in turning it into a job.


do you do any UX/UI work? Had a buddy with a psych undergrad that went into UX/UI. or did you just make the transition to dev?


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## whiskers (Oct 2, 2018)

Jaap said:


> I was trained as classical composer, wrote a few symponies and an opera in my early composing years, but then I went to earn money, the more commercial way and though I work full time as composer and sound designer, I actually try to make free time now to actually compose classical music again more and more. Maybe a bit odd example, but they feel like 2 different worlds


that sounds awesome


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## muk (Oct 2, 2018)

Musicologist here. I am working 80% as a librarian for an opera orchestra. The other 20% I work on a musicological project, and composing music. Some classical, some for tv. The music for tv is starting to generate a little income, and the writing process is less intense. On the other hand I like writing classical music, even if I don't have an outlet for it. But one of my classical pieces won a small price. So currently I am trying to figure out whether I should be focussing on either one over the other, or carry on writing both.


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## Michel Simons (Oct 2, 2018)

whiskers said:


> do you do any UX/UI work? Had a buddy with a psych undergrad that went into UX/UI. or did you just make the transition to dev?



No, I just made the transition after being unable to land a research job.


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## Niklas (Oct 2, 2018)

Physician and trailer composer here. Not that experienced as any of them, but so far I’m working a few months full time as doctor, and writing on evenings/weekends, then a few months part time/by the hour as doctor and more time for braams!


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## gsilbers (Oct 2, 2018)

sound designer for tv shows and films. also ops manager for a post facility that deals for fox/disney etc.
then later worked at fox studios.
great career if i wanted to do showbiz stuff i guess. but if im also doing music and having a 2 yr LA traffic ridden commute to later do 5-6 more hours of work doing music .... i said fuk that and now i currently do samples and music.
and take on some random projects here and there like movie sound, sound design for sample libraries and composers.


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## TheSigillite (Oct 2, 2018)

I work as an IT analyst at a School District plus Cybersecurity training developer for State and National Organizations. It pays the bills but music is a nice break from everything. Plus I like creating tracks for my home videos and my kids love the music i write. I am content.


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## gsilbers (Oct 2, 2018)

Niklas said:


> Physician and trailer composer here. Not that experienced as any of them, but so far I’m working a few months full time as doctor, and writing on evenings/weekends, then a few months part time/by the hour as doctor and more time for braams!



so you add some intense braam epic trailer music on your practice while dealing with patients? cuz that would be awesome!


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## ghobii (Oct 2, 2018)

My regular job is as a freelance video animator and editor. I get to sometimes write the music for the videos I'm creating, so there's some good synergy there. But it makes it even more frustrating, when there isn't time or budget, to have to go through music libraries looking for something I can hear in my head.


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## wst3 (Oct 2, 2018)

I bounce back and forth between the artistic and technical sides of audio in general. Currently work full time as a AV system engineer (wish I could dispense with the "V"!), and in my spare time I write music and design sounds for live theatre. It's a pretty good combination. I also do some lighting design, but that's really just a hobby.

For me, and I may be in the minority, I've reached the point where I'd rather pick and choose the projects I work on, even if that limits the income potential (and it does<G>!) It is less stressful for me this way, and right now that is a key consideration. Part of that reduced stress is, I'm pretty sure, a steady income.


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## Mornats (Oct 2, 2018)

I'm a UX Designer full time and music is my hobby. I'm primarily a bass player and got into recording on my PC to help my playing. It kinda blossomed from there to the point where I'm watching Mike Verta's videos on composition and orchestration and collecting an arsenal of sample libraries.

I've no plans to swap careers. I really love this as a creative outlet that's different from my day job. It's a craft I'd love to master though.


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## CT (Oct 2, 2018)

I just wish I had a real, reliable job, musical or otherwise!


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## Desire Inspires (Oct 2, 2018)

I do.

Music probably is not going to be a full time career for me. No big deal.


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## Niklas (Oct 2, 2018)

gsilbers said:


> so you add some intense braam epic trailer music on your practice while dealing with patients? cuz that would be awesome!


Nothing blows tonsillitis away like a hard ass braam!


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## gtrwll (Oct 2, 2018)

A public librarian specialized in music and visual media here. It's a very inspiring environment to work in, being surrounded by scores, music books, CD's, films, games...but the salary could be better. So I compensate that by writing production music


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## Pudge (Oct 2, 2018)

I cut down trees for main income. Only need to do a few jobs a month to pay the way. Rather sweat than work 9 - 5 for a low wage... + gives me time to make music.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 2, 2018)

I work full time in marketing. I have the feeling that being a "working composer" is actually pretty terrible.


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## babylonwaves (Oct 2, 2018)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I work full time in marketing. I have the feeling that being a "working composer" is actually pretty terrible.


no, only if you're trying to make something sustainable. if you think of yourself as some kind of stripper, it can be pretty fun


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## Mike Marino (Oct 2, 2018)

Full-time musician for Disney, writing music when I have slivers of time.


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## Rodney Money (Oct 2, 2018)

I am the staff composer and instrumental music instructor of an academy in NC. I also have around 15 private students, compose and arrange music for performing soloists, publishers, and ensembles, edit scores for other composers, and a professional flugelhorn/ cornet player. Plus I am hoping to open my own publishing company.


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## Bill the Lesser (Oct 2, 2018)

I'm starting to write cues for nature documentaries and a couple <$10M budget features with good scripts, it's getting to be full time+. Just sort of fell into it while goofing around with the technology. Thanks Mom, for the piano lessons.

Before that I was a 35 year Oscar winning veteran of visual effects, my main gig was a sort of DAW for creating motion. Accidentally fell into it while goofing around with the technology circa 1970. I scraped by for 10 years with a part time job at a fabulous design studio (Eames), then Star Wars hit and turned that arcane knowledge into pure Gold, literally.

Then in retirement I became a fairly successful artistic landscape photographer specializing in the surprisingly gorgeous area around Albuquerque, New Mexico. Just sort of fell into it while goofing around with the technology.

The moral: My entire life history swings on goofing around with stuff I found interesting while neglecting responsible behavior. The first iteration took some sacrifices, the rest were easy. When you do that kind of stuff _with enough intensity_, doors will finally open for you, it's often true. Disclaimer: helps if you were 30 years old in LA in the 70s...today, not so much. Dumb luck also helps.


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## Jeremy Gillam (Oct 2, 2018)

I currently pay my bills doing freelance photo retouching, mostly for architectural photography. In a funny way it's very similar to making music with computers, particularly the mixing aspect. I'm always working with different kinds of frequency!


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## Saxer (Oct 2, 2018)

I write arrangements for bands (from lead sheet to orchestra, jazz and pop, mainly for live events), produce playbacks for singers (also mainly for live events) and compose/arrange music for TV, movie and commercials. As I never did any advertising for my work (I don't even have a web site... don't ask why) I work mostly as a co-composer if someone asks me to. So most of my direct clients are musicians too. And I'm a sax/flute player with one to three live gigs per week.


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## igwanna (Oct 2, 2018)

i envy those of you who get paid to do this so much :\


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## Paul Grymaud (Oct 2, 2018)

Retired. Two years now


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## jon wayne (Oct 2, 2018)

I think I wasn't lacking the talent to"make it in the biz", but spent too much time creating instead of marketing. I started Real Estate Appraisal 3 years ago to pay bills. I am here at the forum daily as part of staying in touch with folks who do it full time. Good luck to all of you!


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## MaxOctane (Oct 2, 2018)

Software in silicon valley, and at night I rest my forehead on the keyboard and drift to sleep to orchestral samples.


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## X-Bassist (Oct 2, 2018)

igwanna said:


> Title says it all,
> i wonder how many people here are working a diferent jobvb other than music production, and in that case how does music prod/composing fit within yourday-to-day life and why?
> 
> for example, im a marketing director full time for 8 years now, decided 2 years ago to make a home studio at my place because its my favorite thing to do. To compose. Actuallym anagied to even get some gigs (mostly non paying) and i started to wonder if i copuld make this my real job, since i believe you shouldnt sell any time of your life for a wage, and should only do what makes you happy..
> ...



Great Topic. Something about talking about what people do besides music that reveals so much.

Most of my living is made by mixing or editing. Mixing TV, Films, Commercials, even some live sound (concerts). Editing Dialog (production and VO), or music, or sfx, or picture. Sometimes all the above on smaller projects. Been blessed to get more composing gigs, but the field is much more competitive. You really need to have favor with the client to get the composing gigs, and more to keep them (composers sometimes change mid-project) but with mixing as long as your decent and get along with people well your golden. When dealing with picture for months with bad sound it can be easy to look good. 

Had my hand in many other things (Kontakt scripting for instance) but never made serious money at any of them. I always seem to get people that say "I just wish I had a decent sound person!". So it's great to save the day from time to time. But hoping to tell my own stories through film someday.


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## jneebz (Oct 2, 2018)

Bill the Lesser said:


> it's getting to be full time+.


If you need to offload some of the “+” I’m here for you.


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## igwanna (Oct 2, 2018)

douggibson said:


> Really ? I have been there twice and the first time in particular it was a hole. 2nd time it seemed boring, and sort of ok. That place always seems to have dark undertones. (like the police killing homeless people)
> 
> Gallup NM.... that literally has to be the worst place in the world. It's built for truck drivers on speed and toothless hookers. Don't ask why I was there


 Hi hope not for the toothless hookers? :D


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## dflood (Oct 2, 2018)

I’m a recently retired horticulturist. I specialized in greenhouse production and automation systems. I also used to volunteer as a ‘sound guy’ for coffee houses and music events, as well as performing. Music is a serious hobby as is woodworking and instrument building. Someday I will finish the mandolin in my avatar photo.

I never intended to make a living from music and so far it’s been an easy commitment to keep. Lately I’ve been focusing on arrangements of traditional fiddle tunes using a combination of live recorded and VI instruments - whatever I can manage by myself. I’m really loving this forum even if my musical interests occupy a tiny and very non-epic niche within it.


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## Bill the Lesser (Oct 2, 2018)

douggibson said:


> Really ? I have been there twice and the first time in particular it was a hole. 2nd time it seemed boring, and sort of ok. That place always seems to have dark undertones. (like the police killing homeless people)
> 
> Gallup NM.... that literally has to be the worst place in the world. It's built for truck drivers on speed and toothless hookers. Don't ask why I was there



Most of these locations are inside Albuquerque's City limits, a few are just outside of it. These don't look like holes to me...
http://unit16.net/Adobe Web Gallery/content/index.html

Amazing fact: the distance between Albuquerque and nearest Hudsonian Rain Forest is about 10 feet, 80+ inches a year at the top of that mountain. Also, the short road from Albuquerque to that mountain top passes through lushly forested examples of most of the climatic zones in the US.

When I moved from LA to Albuquerque, it was a major sigh of relief. Living is very easy here, to sum it up.

You're taking "Breaking Bad" way too seriously. Albuquerque now has a very proactive campaign to address homelessness in a way that respects the dignity of those who must live on the streets. Here's a page from the city web site that outlines a program that has considerable resources behind it, it's more than just political feel-good bs. Homelessness is down dramatically in the last few months.
https://www.cabq.gov/family/services/homeless-services/men


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## Jaap (Oct 2, 2018)

This topic should be a sort of "topic of the month" or something. I really enjoy reading this topic and great idea. Its very nice to see and read behind all the familiar names what everyone is doing, how they are doing it and what or whatnot the ambitions are.


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 2, 2018)

I wish I had another job outside of music...


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## Pudge (Oct 2, 2018)

Some very interesting individuals here, for sure.


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## gregh (Oct 3, 2018)

My work life has been quite varied. I was an artist, worked in a hardware store, then a neuroscientist, then an academic teaching UX, recently retired and back to being an artist the second i could. Mainly working with sound, also making music, also working with other artists providing sound for installation and video. Also done a lot of paid writing, the next couple of weeks writing a chapter for a book on Indigenous australian artists.basically writing a chapter on a friend


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## Rob (Oct 3, 2018)

Different kinds of job, though all related to music... as improvisation teacher, jazz piano performer and proofreader for a music publishing company...


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## NYC Composer (Oct 3, 2018)

Rob said:


> Different kinds of job, though all related to music... as improvisation teacher, jazz piano performer and proofreader for a music publishing company...


Hey Rob, do you give long distance lessons?


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## MartinH. (Oct 3, 2018)

igwanna said:


> i envy those of you who get paid to do this so much :\



I don't, it sounds awfully stressful. I don't believe that every hobby can survive the transition into a job for everyone. Theres something about getting paid and doing it for others instead of yourself, that is sucking the fun out of it - at least for me. If you're interested in the topic in general, you can watch some videos on "impact of extrinsic rewards on intrinsic motivation" on youtube.
Here's a quick one: 


Spoiler


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## ghandizilla (Oct 3, 2018)

igwanna said:


> i envy those of you who get paid to do this so much :\



It depends. I started to have more and more music income this year, so I reduced my two day jobs (librarian at a music school and philosophy teacher in a high school). In the end, I wanted so badly to become a composer full-time I accepted everything, and got commissioned to write things I hate. This summer, I was at at the point I took no pleasure in writing music anymore, hence depression (logical when you lose your passion). So I gave up writing music (for a few months I guess, giving me time to get out of depression), decided to put back everything uncommissioned I wrote under Creative Commons (as it was before), and went back fulltime at my jobs.

So : better to write what you like for free than to write what you dislike for money I guess. Being a professionnal fulltime composer is not an end in itself. *Music is.* Don't put in your website things you don't want to be hired for.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 3, 2018)

To the other side of the coin-as long as it’s writing or playing music and they pay me, I don’t much care. Then again, I’ve been a hired gun for around 40 years, so I’ve done a lot of different stuff for bread. 

Come to think of it, I should be a lot better than I am after all this time. Now I’m depressed.


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## MartinH. (Oct 4, 2018)

NYC Composer said:


> Come to think of it, I should be a lot better than I am after all this time. Now I’m depressed.



Don't be, I think that's a natural side-effect of doing contract work too. The overlap between "gaining knowledge" and "cashing in on your knowledge" varies from project to project, but it'll never be as effective as just persuing the knowledge directly through challenging yourself (and often failing) in just the right way to push yourself forwards. Ideally you'd be able to reserve dedicated time for practice and developing your craft between projects, but in practice that is at odds with the extrinsic motivation. Once you got paid well for doing what you do, it can seem crazy to do it for free again, especially if you have enough work for that to be an actual choice that you make.

I don't know what it takes to be able to keep that part intact in spite of getting paid work in the field too, but I don't think I have "it". But if any of you do, I'd like to hear your thoughts on what "it" is, and if you think it can be reclaimed somehow.


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## Henu (Oct 6, 2018)

I work as a senior composer and music producer in a (mobile) games company since 2013. Before that I was the in-house composer and audio designer at another game company for nine years. Other than that, I have a couple of bands since the late 90´s which are still going on and I do freelance mixing/ mastering (mostly for metal bands) at my home and sometimes compose stuff on demand for media. So, it's pretty much music 24/7 like it has been for the last 20 years. 
The downside is that as I am so obsessed with music, it's sometimes really hard to give attention to my family when I get bewitched enough with it. Lucky for them, I work mostly at home in the evenings, so when I get stuck under that spell, my awesome wife knows when to stop me (and when not to!)

Besides, I suck horribly in everything else, so it's just freaking awesome that I can do this instead!


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## MartinH. (Oct 7, 2018)

ghandizilla said:


> I wanted so badly to become a composer full-time I accepted everything, and got commissioned to write things I hate. This summer, I was at at the point I took no pleasure in writing music anymore, hence depression (logical when you lose your passion). So I gave up writing music (for a few months I guess, giving me time to get out of depression), decided to put back everything uncommissioned I wrote under Creative Commons (as it was before), and went back fulltime at my jobs.
> 
> So : better to write what you like for free than to write what you dislike for money I guess. Being a professionnal fulltime composer is not an end in itself. *Music is.* Don't put in your website things you don't want to be hired for.



If you don't mind me asking, how sure are you, that you got depressed _because _you lost your passion for composing, compared to getting depression (for a whatever different reason) and as a _consequence _lost your passion for music? Not trying to imply anything, just curious because I don't really feel like composing at the moment either, but I never did it as a proper job.

Afaik it is an (at least anecdotally) documented phenomenon, that people get depressed when they reach certain goals that they had worked towards for a long time. E.g. in game development they call it "post release depression" when you release a game that you worked on for years and feel terrible afterwards. And I've also read of "puppy depression", where people finally get a dog and start to question whether it was the right decision. I wouldn't be surprised if it's typcial for young parents too, although stigma will prevent most from ever talking about it openly.


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## micrologus (Oct 7, 2018)

Musicologist and high school music teacher.


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## ghandizilla (Oct 7, 2018)

MartinH. said:


> Afaik it is an (at least anecdotally) documented phenomenon, that people get depressed when they reach certain goals that they had worked towards for a long time. E.g. in game development they call it "post release depression" when you release a game that you worked on for years and feel terrible afterwards. And I've also read of "puppy depression", where people finally get a dog and start to question whether it was the right decision. I wouldn't be surprised if it's typcial for young parents too, although stigma will prevent most from ever talking about it openly.



That's a fair point, and you may be right. Though, given that I never completely reached my goal (music was a revenue, but it was not enough to make music full-time, in the end I was like half-time into it), maybe it's more a matter of frustration (results don't compensate for the investment) than a matter of emptyness after reaching the goal. That being said, the psychological phenomenon you're referring to is well documented and well-known at least since the ancient history. As they said in the Roman empire : _post coitum animal triste_.


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## The Darris (Oct 7, 2018)

I do sound mixing/boom operating on super small local productions. It pays pretty well for a day's work and living in the Bay Area, there are always people needing someone to run sound. I don't actively look for gigs, I sort of just act as a back up. I've made quite a few contacts out here which allows me to still focus on music production but with a side hustle that fills in the gaps between gigs.


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## Giscard Rasquin (Oct 7, 2018)

Comercial airline pilot
Great job but can’t help to picture myself living of music.
Some day..... 

Sometimes hard to fit in music, especially with a little baby around, but I just try my best to find the time for it! 

Great thread!


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## Jaap (Oct 7, 2018)

GuitarG said:


> Comercial airline pilot
> Great job but can’t help to picture myself living of music.
> Some day.....



Hope so though as your music from your band is awesome!


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## Giscard Rasquin (Oct 7, 2018)

Thanks Jaap!
Just some people who have no clue what they’re doing bashing their instruments and making some noise


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## R. Soul (Oct 7, 2018)

It's no wonder a lot of you are happy with your day job, cause a lot of them seems like really good jobs, which I'd imagine you'd have to get some pretty decent composing gigs to match pay wise.

For me, it's a bit of the opposite. I never really had a solid Plan B, and gone from one mediocre (at best) job to another. So, instead of continuing that, the last year I've just done music full time.
I guess, a positive way of looking at it, if you quit a lousy job to do music, you really don't have land Hollywood gigs to match your old salary.


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## JT (Oct 7, 2018)

Been a music copyist for commercial projects and music engraver for publishing.


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## C M Dess (Oct 8, 2018)

I tried to get out of the music industry about 8 years ago to work in the ordinary world back in San Francisco. I didn't like the sticker shock factor of how the process actually works in the Hollywood/NewYork accounting system and that they constantly ask you to do sketchy things then of course screw you over in all the contracts so if something is popular and/or goes wrong the lawyers will take back the money you made. I figured out that the companies have a massive advantage and the artists voice isn't heard at all. Then there's all the illegal shit too. So what was the point? The business works exactly the opposite as they show it in movies and tv. Talent is the most disregarded and disrespected especially on the finance side. It's like saying I like to cook so I'll work at McDonalds. I tried to get into maintenance and worked like a dog for several years as janitor. My boss told me I was exactly what they look for and we had a good relationship. I won employee of the month many times, employee of the quarter, never missed a day, never harassed the girls, never stole from the company, never did drugs, helped a lot of people, spent my own money on some things to improve the standards of the place. Along came a GM and basically scooped out my bosses position, also informed me it wouldn't be available when he retired. Real tragedy cause I liked the place and people sort of appreciated my work ethic. After that experience I didn't trust that seen as much either because it was once again all about the profit and not quality of experience for customers and workers. People who don't know your sacrifice throwing away your life, the PLIGHT OF MEN. You wouldn't understand it unless you've been there painting a building at 2am by yourself, off the clock, to have it ready in time for others.

So then I went back to the music business because I was having decent royalties but that quickly started to fall apart to my shock. I did 5 CD's that was asked of me in briefs but my connection was stalling for time because they were going through business structure changes and personal family issues. 1 year later still nothing and reached out to several other publishers who all produced exactly nothing after many tracks were handed over to them. This is were I learned the hard way the significance of the gatekeeper. In other words my work 12 years in the synch world amounted to absolutely nothing I could "take with me" in terms of business fans of my work.

Unfortunately maintenance and music are typical fields where they don't get the proper allocation of resources to do the work that is asked of them. What's always most significant is the "facade" of the front of house experience. In the music business you have all the brand pushers who look nice and new and shiny but have no depth or artistic value. In the maintenance world everything breaks constantly and is replaced only when the last screw finally snaps, profit profit profit, of course they keep the parts that people can see up to snuff just enough. No matter where you work if you work 10 times harder and do ethical things even when no one is looking you don't get special treatment on the finance side unless you transition to a different department that comes with strings attached that go completely against your virtue or manhood.

World has *no class*. None.







Chain Reaction (of Misfortune)
https://musicjunkies.sourceaudio.com/#!details?id=13277039


This man is telling the truth (4:24):


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## Gerbil (Oct 8, 2018)

I'm a working classical musician. Part of the time performing, part teaching in the same conservatoire I was a student at. For all its lofty intentions its a pretty insular world really. 

I'm not particularly interested in writing commercial music but I am interested in retiring before I'm 90 so I do a bit on the side.


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## MrCambiata (Oct 8, 2018)

I teach piano and play on the weekends with a quartet.


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## Tatu (Oct 8, 2018)

I do 3D stuff (visualisations / BIM) and study electrics and automation engineering during evenings, so yes.. music is just a hobby, and I have less and less time for writing and music in general right now. When I do have some time to spare, I either practice violin or viola, or if I'm composing, then I tend to do smaller scale stuff; small pieces for voice/piano etc.


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## procreative (Oct 8, 2018)

I am a graphic designer, in my early years I played in a band that got pretty successful within a niche genre (goth) that meant despite a good fanbase struggled to make inroads into mainstream success (although compared to download sales income...). Having a job that could be freelanced gave me the option to take chunks of time off for tours/recording sessions. Eventually the income earned on tours started to match the income lost taking time off.

But it both endeavours also taught me that doing something you love while great, changes once you have external forces controlling the end result. In my graphic design job I have to accept the clients tastes/whims and often end up producing work I feel disconnected with. Similarly I know that if you work in the music industry you have to please a lot of other people who hold the power to hire and fire.

Then like with the band, there is a lot of shit to deal with, in that case, arsehole band members who put minimal effort in and want maximum rewards, promoters, distributors, venue managers etc organising things. In the end it feels like the music is the last part. Yes you can hire agents, managers, pr etc, but then you risk getting fleeced/swindled/controlled...

My point is, an enjoyable pass-time can become as much of a millstone for the spirit as that dead end job once you attach a career to it. I would also imagine there are very few composers who solely earn from composing full time.


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## wblaze (Oct 12, 2018)

I work as a video editor in higher education. The job is 9-5, and supports my lifestyle and 1 child. I have a little time after work to study music and create, and I've had the opportunity to compose music for some promotional videos I've edited. My goal is to consider myself a 'part-time professional composer', writing for libraries and the occasional festival film, documentary, or indie game, as well as my own enjoyment.


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## FabMrT (Oct 12, 2018)

I work as a video editor / occasional producer / archivist / system specialist for big media company. Not my dream job, but it's way of making living. I am constantly planning to start making some money with music, but I just don't have the time. Outside my work I am studying jazz arranging/harmony at uni as well as getting private lessons for piano.


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## Loïc D (Oct 12, 2018)

I’m IT consultant & project manager, specialized in international real estate management & building management solutions.
It pays the bills & more, and now that I made a small name in this domain, I don’t see any career switching.

Music is just a hobby (which I’m incredibly lazy at).


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## X-Bassist (Oct 12, 2018)

C M Dess said:


> I tried to get out of the music industry about 8 years ago to work in the ordinary world back in San Francisco. I didn't like the sticker shock factor of how the process actually works in the Hollywood/NewYork accounting system and that they constantly ask you to do sketchy things then of course screw you over in all the contracts so if something is popular and/or goes wrong the lawyers will take back the money you made. I figured out that the companies have a massive advantage and the artists voice isn't heard at all. Then there's all the illegal shit too. So what was the point? The business works exactly the opposite as they show it in movies and tv. Talent is the most disregarded and disrespected especially on the finance side. It's like saying I like to cook so I'll work at McDonalds. I tried to get into maintenance and worked like a dog for several years as janitor. My boss told me I was exactly what they look for and we had a good relationship. I won employee of the month many times, employee of the quarter, never missed a day, never harassed the girls, never stole from the company, never did drugs, helped a lot of people, spent my own money on some things to improve the standards of the place. Along came a GM and basically scooped out my bosses position, also informed me it wouldn't be available when he retired. Real tragedy cause I liked the place and people sort of appreciated my work ethic. After that experience I didn't trust that seen as much either because it was once again all about the profit and not quality of experience for customers and workers. People who don't know your sacrifice throwing away your life, the PLIGHT OF MEN. You wouldn't understand it unless you've been there painting a building at 2am by yourself, off the clock, to have it ready in time for others.
> 
> So then I went back to the music business because I was having decent royalties but that quickly started to fall apart to my shock. I did 5 CD's that was asked of me in briefs but my connection was stalling for time because they were going through business structure changes and personal family issues. 1 year later still nothing and reached out to several other publishers who all produced exactly nothing after many tracks were handed over to them. This is were I learned the hard way the significance of the gatekeeper. In other words my work 12 years in the synch world amounted to absolutely nothing I could "take with me" in terms of business fans of my work.
> 
> Unfortunately maintenance and music are typical fields where they don't get the proper allocation of resources to do the work that is asked of them. What's always most significant is the "facade" of the front of house experience. In the music business you have all the brand pushers who look nice and new and shiny but have no depth or artistic value. In the maintenance world everything breaks constantly and is replaced only when the last screw finally snaps, profit profit profit, of course they keep the parts that people can see up to snuff just enough. No matter where you work if you work 10 times harder and do ethical things even when no one is looking you don't get special treatment on the finance side unless you transition to a different department that comes with strings attached that go completely against your virtue or manhood.



I feel your pain. It can be very difficult (in any field) to do your best work, put in your off time, be 100% reliable, then feel screwed when you get your paycheck. Yes, music has it’s gatekeepers, so does just about everything (though there are more people trying to get a music job, so those hiring might push things a bit further) so it comes down to who you have favor with and who you don’t. Usually when you do get favor with a boss or someone with creative power (a Director or Artist) it is unmerited. In the beginning it’s not usually that you are great at what you do, or even that your a great guy, but that the last guy sucked. And how do you plan for that? You can’t. That’s right, you can’t plan for it or make it happen. And how do you keep the job? By doing the best job you can and hoping that job continues (or they come back later with more).

Being an independent composer/ sound designer / mixer most of my life (going on year 51) I’ve had to rely mostly on that favor of others, and when it doesn’t happen I finish what I can, invoice what I can, and move on. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of independent employers looking for “somebody that is good with sound”. Sometimes that includes music , sometimes not, but I still learn something on almost every project. And crazy as it sounds, no one has ever stiffed me on an invoice (yet ). That’s just how the independent world works because they may need you again and even after seeing me work they still know nothing about sound.

So yes, there is no huge project that will pay my bills for a year, or get me royalties that I can reture on. But I do enjoy what I do, and work doesn’t seem like work. Since my passion is still there, and I wait for projects that really need sound help (about 80% of independent projects ) I usually have favor with the employer. But it’s still not easy. I can’t tell you how the bills will get paid next month, but they do. There is also some leg work I have to be willing to do (put myself out there) but in general my jobs come mostly from references and word of mouth (I got your name from a producer) not from job hunting, so doing any decent projects, even for free, can be helpful in the beginning.

But that’s not you. Your right that the world (the corporate world) has no class, but there are independents in any field that do. You just have to find those that you have favor with, and keep looking until you do. It can be a tough road at times, but as long as your passionate about what your doing, it’s much more satisfying than digging a ditch. And pays a bit better too.


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## Cowtothesky (Oct 12, 2018)

igwanna said:


> Hi hope not for the toothless hookers? :D



She could do things with her good arm that would make you forget that thing on her neck.


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## igwanna (Oct 12, 2018)

Cowtothesky said:


> She could do things with her good arm that would make you forget that thing on her neck.


Holycow, i tried not to create the mental image, and failed miserabily.


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## igwanna (Oct 12, 2018)

Cowtothesky said:


> She could do things with her good arm that would make you forget that thing on her neck.


Holycow, i tried not to create the mental image, and failed miserabily.


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## Nicholas B (Oct 12, 2018)

I'm a front of house engineer for corporate events. I would highly recommend the Audio/Visual scene for those looking to get better at the technical side of production.


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## Robo Rivard (Oct 12, 2018)

I'm a graphic artist and I've been working in the TV-film industry for more that thirty years, doing mainly Design and Storyboard. I've started playing drums at 16, but moved to synths around 25. I've always been a hobbyist, and people don't like my music.
https://robertrivard.myportfolio.com/


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Oct 12, 2018)

I actually work in IT as a Network Engineer by day. It's quite different, creative in a different way...!


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## JohnG (Oct 12, 2018)

Does anyone doubt that you can write something great even if you make a living in some other field?

This thread's title seems to imply that "making a living at composing" legitimizes the compositions, or the composer. The corollary suggestion is that _failing_ to make a living at it means the music / person is sub-par, when maybe it's the marketing instead? Or maybe what that person is into, artistically, doesn't align too well with what's in demand?

I doubt anyone would argue that _all_ music produced by non-professional / non-full-time composers is worse than _all_ the commercially successful music. I don't think it's too risky to suggest that some music that is commercially successful, nevertheless is "bad," worse than some music that is obscure or unknown.

*Famous Non-professionals*

One doesn't have to look far to find great music (and novels / plays / poetry) written by people who didn't make lots or, sometimes, even _any_ money at it:

*Jane Austen* -- wrote early novels for family, only later published
*Alban Berg* -- made most / a lot of his income from rentals on family-owned apartment buildings; he may have devoted most of his life to composing, but not sure it was heavily validated by financial success
*Dante* -- seems to have lived largely off the charity of other people
*Erwin Schulhoff* -- fabulous composer and no idea if he ever "made a living" at composing; died in a concentration camp

How much did Bartok make from his composing? No idea. And it might be worth remembering that some great composers, like Haydn, were expected to act like hired help, serving under all kinds of irksome stipulations (for evidence, read his multi-page contract with the Esterhazys: https://www.cengage.com/music/book_...ightSimms/assets/ITOW/7273X_45_ITOW_Haydn.pdf ).

*It's not you...*

I don't mean to imply that everyone contributing here equates not making a living at music with failure, but I fear this topic makes people feel rotten or inadequate for no good reason.

It also seems mistaken to elevate composers or writers to the status of "artists" whose work is popular and makes money, but which is nevertheless unbearably trite, derivative, or -- crap.

Moreover, it's no secret that the very conditions under which commercially-viable music is written can lead to mediocrity; a little experience will teach one that those in charge of projects often explicitly ask for music that takes no chances at all, or there is someone else in the background who is averse to originality, whose very presence in the process (or potential intervention) suppresses risk-taking.

*Maybe it's sort of true but...*

I do write music full time and I concede that being able to devote a lot of time to music has helped make me better at it. I feel I've gotten tons better even in the last couple of years; new commissions in new musical areas, coupled with deadlines, drive me to overcome my habitual aversion to studying, so that's the reason I think I keep learning.

Nevertheless, I say, let's stand up for part-timers and those who may not make anything at all from music.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Oct 12, 2018)

Power Engineer here. I work on boilers, automation and HVAC in high rise buildings. I also drum professionally in a few bands and compose evenings and weekends (as time permits), which has developed into a healthy second career. I still have a pipe dream about composing full time, but if that never happens, that's okay as I always have plenty of cool soundtrack work (and drumming gigs) and it fulfills my passions. In my books, I have "made it".


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## stacever (Oct 12, 2018)

I am database programmer, analyst. Used to play accordion semi-professionally.


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## gregh (Oct 12, 2018)

JohnG said:


> *Famous Non-professionals*
> 
> One doesn't have to look far to find great music (and novels / plays / poetry) that was written by people who didn't make lots or, sometimes, even _any_ money at it:
> 
> ...


*Alexander Borodin *as well - his main lifelong career was in science


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## wblaze (Oct 13, 2018)

JohnG said:


> Does anyone doubt that you can write something great even if you make a living in some other field?
> 
> This thread's title seems to imply that "making a living at composing" legitimizes the compositions, or the composer. The corollary suggestion is that _failing_ to make a living at it means the music / person is sub-par, when maybe it's the marketing instead? Or maybe what that person is into, artistically, doesn't align too well with what's in demand?
> 
> I doubt anyone would argue that _all_ music produced by non-professional / non-full-time composers is worse than _all_ the commercially successful music. I don't think it's too risky to suggest that some music that is commercially successful, nevertheless is "bad," worse than some music that is obscure or unknown.



Thanks for this perspective! I always need this reminder.


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## Jaap (Oct 13, 2018)

Good post @JohnG

I think 2 other great examples are Gustav Mahler, who was a (very succesful) conducter and mainly composed his big works during his summer holidays and of course Charles Ives, who had a lifetime and succesful carreer in the insurance industry.


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## ghandizilla (Oct 15, 2018)

@JohnG , thanks for your post. Hobbyists tend to have a "complex" when confronted to professional composers. As a hobbyist, I constantly experience a kind of Golem Effect. We often feel like jokes because we're not actually making a living out of our passion. My own failure, my own inability to take pleasure at going "sellable", emphasized the impression to be - as you put it - a "subpar". After a 2-months break out of depression I'm just starting writing music again, and your post actually helped find a bit of self-confidence.

I really love your Haydn example about professionnal servility, and the other career examples added by @Jaap .

You're also right concerning the time and the challenges of professionnal life which help getting better, getting out of one's comfort zone. But it's not because it's easier to make progress when being a pro that you can't make huge progress while being a hobbyist. That's how I understood your post.


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## InLight-Tone (Oct 15, 2018)

I'm an internet jack of all trades. My first goal was just to be self-employed and get out of working a "normal" job which was being the IT manager at a large Natural Foods Coop. I am also highly drawn to a nomadic lifestyle so my wife and I bought an RV and lived in it until we had enough coming in to hit the road fulltime.

To that end my wife and I took to the internet and did everything we could, started a ton of websites running Adsense, started YouTube channels, ran affiliate programs etc. We had a number of websites that did well, that I subsequently sold so we could concentrate more on music and other things we enjoyed doing more.

Over the years we have kept refining the businesses to those subjects that we truly enjoy participating in and those activities we truly enjoy doing. Our main YouTube channel, not the one I link to below, is bringing in the majority of our income, but the videos we produce are very labor intensive, so we are working on shifting out of that over time.

Still the ability to bring in income on the road never gets old and we appreciate not having to do the 9-5, living our days as we see fit but staying responsible to keep the plates spinning something I have a hard time with as I want to work on music the majority of my day.

I gotta say, learning to compose music, staying on top of VI's, learning the depths of your DAW is a major time suck, I don't know how anyone working a job, especially with a partner and kids could possibly find the time and energy to pull it off unless they are in their 20's and hate sleeping!

I make small sums of money monthly doing library and stock music and my skills are now getting to the point where I am thinking of aiming towards bigger targets, but I would NEVER give up being on the road for ANY music gig so anything I do in that realm would have to be internet based...


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## JohnG (Oct 15, 2018)

ghandizilla said:


> it's not because it's easier to make progress when being a pro that you can't make huge progress while being a hobbyist



I do believe that ^^.

Now that I think of it, I'm not sure if Van Gough ever sold more than one or two paintings in his entire life, and look at how he's viewed today.

In fact, moving from hobby / avocation to professional risks crushing the fun of creation, and often upends one's capacity to keep nurturing oneself, caring for one's psyche. Some professionals I encounter in media (not just composers) have experienced such miserable working conditions or cynical colleagues that they seem discouraged about producing anything personal. They seem to feel "it's pearls before swine so why bother?" Or, "nobody really wants anything original; if they say they do they are kidding themselves."

Undoubtedly, some jobs do put the composer in a box, whether by deadlines, zero communication, temp track love, or sheer lack of anything original in the picture itself. On one of my films, the director completely disappeared for over a month -- no email, nothing. [edit: on another film the director came to hear mockups of the first seven minutes of the score and then never wanted to hear anything else. The first time he heard the rest was on the dub stage.]

*Take Care of Yourself*

As hard as it is to ignore politics today, and those who stoke hate and cynicism, we all need to look after our precious inner nature, to cherish ourselves and be our friend, instead of a constant critic. Feeling under a cloud because one makes an effort to compose but doesn't make money hurts us and helps no-one. How are we ever going to improve if we don't try?

Besides, what are we put on Earth to do? Just to make money? Should we all head for Wall Street / the City / the Bourse? I doubt many here would agree with such a premise. Everyone who paints a picture or writes a play or composes music aspires to something beyond our daily bread.

So I say forget judging your work by money. Compare, if you think it helps, to a composer whom you admire and strive to do better each time, to learn a little technique, to write something besides a four-bar phrase -- whatever. It's not always the case that commercial success makes one happier as a composer anyway, so we all need to enjoy what we can.


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## Owen Smith (Oct 15, 2018)

Hey all, pleasure to meet everyone. I'm an nurse working with Spanish-speaking HIV positive patients in Baltimore, MD. When I'm not working I am busy with my other full time job as the father of 13 month old twin boys. The only time I get to write music is after my wife and boys go to bed. I try to stop writing around 11, but as many of you know it is so easy to get carried away with music and I often come to bed well after midnight 

I look forward to interacting with you all and learning from your experience


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## JohnG (Oct 15, 2018)

Hats off to you, @Owen Smith for doing that kind of work. Anything we can help with, I'm sure you'll find people with ideas.

John


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## Mike Fox (Oct 15, 2018)

I'm a stay-at-home now (former A/V tech). You'd think I'd have more time to compose, but reality is a different beast altogether.


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## SoundChris (Oct 15, 2018)

I am a fulltime lawyer and semi-professional composer thinking of finally studying human medicine as long as I am "young" enough


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## frontline (Oct 15, 2018)

Fryderyk Chopin taught piano for 17 years, from 1832 to 1849, when he also divided his time as a composer. He devoted summers to composition and winters to his piano students. MacCabe offers a reason for this when stating, “Since Chopin despised concertizing in public and his compositions only produced a meager income, he sustained himself by teaching.” Reference


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## Owen Smith (Oct 15, 2018)

JohnG said:


> Hats off to you, @Owen Smith for doing that kind of work. Anything we can help with, I'm sure you'll find people with ideas.
> 
> John



Thanks John! Likewise and look forward to interacting with you and everyone else on vi-control. Take care


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## starise (Oct 17, 2018)

I believe if sound library makers, music production software companies and plugin makers all only depended on the "pro" for their income they would all be in big trouble. The part timer likely accounts for a decent share of the market.

I think I have occasionally felt the way JohnG describes some might feel. It seems no matter where you go there are a handful of self proclaimed experts. Some actually are and some only think they are. I've never thought I was any less than them in the area of music. I admittedly have terrible marketing skills. I lean more on the artistic edge and less on the marketing ability. I think it's rare for any one individual to have both of those strengths. There are probably a few here who are good at both, and the thing is, It isn't something I have an interest in marketing myself or anyone else. I'm the guy that practically gives away things I sell. Money isn't a motivator.Title isn't a motivator. Music is my only motivator.

In the working world I'm an HVAC building automation specialist which also involves energy management, lighting and those kinds of things. I had my beginnings in HVAC which made a solid backbone for moving into automation. It's a decent job. If I can hang with it I'll have a decent retirement. I see no reason to go into a series of part time gigs with unsure outcomes. I don't fault those who do that and in some ways I admire them. I just don't think this is who I am. I guess that could change if someone approached me, offered me a fair sum of money and I was capable to do the job well. I still think it would probably remain a PT venture. I can take it or leave it.

As it is now I make music that's probably not overly sympathetic to large sample libraries. I have a SC account with maybe 100 tunes up. I've had some success and a few bombs. Play multiple instruments, compose and play a weekly church piano gig. They only recently began paying me for that. I told them I might not be around forever and they should get used to paying for good musicians and as a way to show how much they really value their music program and purpose. I've been playing there for about 5 years for free, so I guess if I had been in it only for the coin I would have walked long ago. I don't get rich but it's a step in the right direction.

As I get older I don't have a need or want to compare anymore. I just do what I do and enjoy it.


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## dohm (Oct 18, 2018)

I always enjoy the mix and variety of people I get to meet in the music community. It is great to hear the life stories posted here. I'm an engineer/scientist turned entrepreneur and CEO of a tech company. I currently focus my days on creating AI software for real-time sensor processing. Some of my limited free time is spent playing and creating music. I make some money selling library music, and playing in bands, but I do it for the challenge and satisfaction and not because it is my job. I also enjoy buying sample libraries  

You could say that I found what I loved most in life (music), then found what I liked second most (science & engineering) and made that my career. This keeps music away from the stresses that a job can produce.

I would be lying if I said I did not have dreams for composing music for famous films, tv, or games. That sounds amazing! However, I also enjoy the motivation of trying to achieve that level of quality purely from self interest. I just wish there was more time in a day!


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## Gzu (Oct 18, 2018)

Hello everyone.

I was a commercial airline pilot till 2015. Then I stopped flying.
I was diagnosed with GAD ( general anxiety disorder ).
The interesting part of all this, is that now I have plenty of time to compose and write music, and I lost all the motivation since 2015.
Before that I was flying like crazy and I always manage to get time to compose music.
Before my first anxiety episode I had done two featured films and plenty of other projects.
Since then, I quit flying, and for some unknown reason I don't have that drive that sends me to the studio to compose music.
Music as far as I can remember, was my motivation for everything...it was my energy my soul.
Nowadays I struggle to compose even a few seconds of music, and most of the times I shut off the computer without recording a single idea.
Maybe composing music only make sense for me, if I have other occupation that distract my mind.
If someone have some sort of idea, how to overcome this please share it with me.


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## gregh (Oct 18, 2018)

Gzu said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I was a commercial airline pilot till 2015. Then I stopped flying.
> I was diagnosed with GAD ( general anxiety disorder ).
> ...


firstly I recommend treating the anxiety where treatments (like cognitive behavioural therapy) have shown success. As have drug treatments. Obviously that is a medical matter tackled with professional medical support. Every person deserves individual care.
Many people suffer the same decline in productivity when they retire - there is no sense of urgency anymore about getting composing done in the few moments of free time. Setting some sort of personal deadline can be helpful, but that does not work for everyone as it will be artificial. Again I would recommend professional help for the anxiety and incorporating a return to composing into that help


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## starise (Oct 19, 2018)

"Since then, I quit flying, and for some unknown reason I don't have that drive that sends me to the studio to compose music."

Loosing the will to compose seems to be a pretty common thing for many musicians. And, it's easy to begin to feel sorry for ourselves sometimes, like, who really cares anyhow? I will say there was more of a fire inside of me or a drive to compose several years ago. It's like I need to periodically rekindle that ambition when at one time it came more naturally. Some of that was a major health issue that thankfully I'm on the other side of now. Any major life disrupt seems to disrupt creative flow and we need to get back into the groove again. I don't think anyone is God's gift to composition. Like anything else we need to work at it no matter how good we think we are.

Composing an a studio is usually a lone gig. If a person is retired or not getting out for some fresh air and occasional social interaction, I think it compounds these issues of helplessness and loneliness. Maybe even paranoia. I can actually begin to get a little nuts if I don't get out, even if it means letting the music go for awhile.

For the first time last evening I sat there after a long day's work asking myself what I wanted to do. Music came to mind, then I said to myself, no I really jut want to chill. I didn't feel the least bit guilty about it. I needed a recharge. For that evening I wasn't in the studio. I layed on my ass and read .Now if I had say, a few more days like this, I would begin to wonder what's wrong with me, because that isn't me normally. I think we need time to play hookie without feeling guilty.


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## bill5 (Oct 22, 2018)

Another I.T. person here hoping to generate some music that doesn't sound like it was done by an I.T. guy lol


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## KMA (Oct 22, 2018)

I'm a professional musician who got married and grew tired of touring.

So I'm now trying to make a go of it in the studio, through production and composition. I make less money, but I'm far happier.


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## toomanynotes (Oct 25, 2018)

Hi, I play the triangle in orchestras, I’m quite lucky as I make a full living wage from it. Some ppl may laugh, but it takes the skill and timing to place the sound of the triangle hit. It’s a passion, some may call it a curse, but I’ve seen grown men jump of cliffs with their triangles after been fired. It’s a subject closely guarded by the elitist orchestras...it does happen.
Some die of boredom, For instance the last 12 months I played the triangle for around 7 taps and another 7 for rehearsals. It can be a difficult life for us but we do get mental health help and free life time gym access to keep the wrists and biceps nice n healthy. 
This year I will be playing in 12 symphonies...so little harder than last yr, I’ll be tapping about 15 times in total. Sometimes i give em 16! Depends what mood im in.
Most of the time the conductors notice my additional taps...and we kind of acknowledge each other with a wink. Its like one big happy family.
I’m one lucky S.O.B


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## Michel Simons (Oct 25, 2018)

toomanynotes said:


> This year I will be playing in 12 symphonies...so little harder than last yr, I’ll be tapping about 15 times in total. Sometimes i give em 16!



Hence the name, I guess?


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## Hywel (Oct 25, 2018)

toomanynotes said:


> Hi, I play the triangle in orchestras, I’m quite lucky as I make a full living wage from it. Some ppl may laugh, but it takes the skill and timing to place the sound of the triangle hit. It’s a passion, some may call it a curse, but I’ve seen grown men jump of cliffs with their triangles after been fired. It’s a subject closely guarded by the elitist orchestras...it does happen.
> Some die of boredom, For instance the last 12 months I played the triangle for around 7 taps and another 7 for rehearsals. It can be a difficult life for us but we do get mental health help and free life time gym access to keep the wrists and biceps nice n healthy.
> This year I will be playing in 12 symphonies...so little harder than last yr, I’ll be tapping about 15 times in total. Sometimes i give em 16! Depends what mood im in.
> Most of the time the conductors notice my additional taps...and we kind of acknowledge each other with a wink. Its like one big happy family.
> I’m one lucky S.O.B


Have you ever worked out your earnings per tap/tinkle or whatever triangulists call the hits they make?

Hywel


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## Jaybee (Oct 25, 2018)

After a stint in many good bands that made no money I transitioned to an earlier love of photography and so I'm a commercial photographer. For the last 10-15 years I've worked almost exclusively in the stock-photo industry (women eating salad, happy families on the beach, man looks menacingly at credit card, you know the sort of thing right?)  Anyway, that industry is dying on it's backside, we're all being royally screwed by two to three 'mega agencies' and have to produce more and more and earn less and less as image rights are being eroded faster than you can say 'retweet'. So I guess I'm well set up for stock library work, which is my current target, it seems to have an awful lot of similarities....


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## jononotbono (Oct 25, 2018)

I've just watched the IGN review of Red Dead Redemption 2. I think my new job is going to be playing that! Who needs a real life when £60 can buy you a better one.


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## Richard Birkin (Nov 1, 2018)

Super topic. I wonder about this all the time. My cousin is a writer and she makes most of her income from running writing courses - she calls this her 'George Clooney Work'...as in...George Clooney looks in the mirror and sees 'the Actor/Director' not 'The Nespresso Guy!', but being the Nespresso guy for a bit pays for some of the more interesting work (e.g. producing indie flicks). Maybe a bad example 'cos the guy is made of money, but I like the sentiment. 

My Nespresso job is doing User Experience Design consultancy for small design agencies that are building websites but need someone to map out the Information Architecture so that it all makes sense. 

It was my job for years before I quit to do music. The first couple of years were 20% music and 80% Nespresso. This year (5th since quitting day job) it's more like 80% music/20% Nespresso. It's been the hardest year financially in my life, but so unbelievably worth it.


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## erikradbo (Nov 1, 2018)

Niklas said:


> Physician and trailer composer here. Not that experienced as any of them, but so far I’m working a few months full time as doctor, and writing on evenings/weekends, then a few months part time/by the hour as doctor and more time for braams!



Nice, I'm also a swedish doctor and composer, doing mostly short jingles and pop productions so far. Can you share some things you've done?


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## Synetos (Nov 1, 2018)

I was a musician from the time I was 8. I thought I would make a career of it as a singer-songwriter, but I just didn't like the business or most of the people I met that were in it at the time. I worked in a recording studio for a while and then ultimately made my career in IT, and let music just be a hobby. I did well enough that I sort of 'retired' in my mid-forties to pursue my music without any financial pressure. It has been over six years and I have yet to make any serious money from it. Had the world not gone to stealing music, I think things might be different. All that said, I feel very blessed to just be able to mess around with what I love, play live with my Christian friends on worship teams, and not worry about having to support a family from it. Music for ministry is where my passion is now.


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## Neifion (Nov 14, 2018)

Was trying to make composing a full time career, but my finances couldn’t handle it. Ended up commissioning as an Army Preventive Medicine Officer. I actually prefer it now, where I can just focus on music as a hobby rather than worrying about the money stuff. Good stress relief as well.


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## JJP (Nov 15, 2018)

I posted my work situation here earlier this year.


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## Divico (Nov 15, 2018)

Just finished med school and doing a one year internship. So basically I am a physician. Music is just my hobby :(


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## reddognoyz (Nov 15, 2018)

I am the co-owner of an audio post studio in NYC. For me what's most profitable is to land a gig scoring a series and also get as much of the post,(voice record, sound design, mix, talent payment, voice direction etc.), as I can. My partner is a "recovering ad agency producer" so I concentrate on my scoring work, and he focuses on the audio post. It has worked out well.


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## Crowe (Nov 15, 2018)

Going into music didn't work out at the time and I eventually ended up a software developer.

It's a fine job and I like the challenge but I wonder if my passions don't lie elsewhere.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Nov 15, 2018)

Product Designer/ME


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## NYC Composer (Nov 17, 2018)

reddognoyz said:


> I am the co-owner of an audio post studio in NYC. For me what's most profitable is to land a gig scoring a series and also get as much of the post,(voice record, sound design, mix, talent payment, voice direction etc.), as I can. My partner is a "recovering ad agency producer" so I concentrate on my scoring work, and he focuses on the audio post. It has worked out well.


Reddognoyz and I once did competing demos for a series when I was working for a company called Amazing Tunes. His won. I’m still pissed off about that


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