# Dunkirk -



## synthpunk

https://www.vox.com/videos/2017/7/26/16033868/dunkirk-soundtrack-shepard-tone


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## Greg

Awesome! Another article- https://nyti.ms/2tKtYzF


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## mc_deli

Should I make Ms Deli sit through it on Saturday night date night...? ...knowing the movie has had pretty poor reviews... but that interview makes it very interesting... I also met a guy on the beach today who said it was like watching 20,000 Brits queuing and getting shot at, which, as accurate as it seems, isn't quite as good a sales pitch as HZ's blooming phone interview dialogue... hmm


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## Frederick Russ

The movie is supposed to be disconcerting. The score reminded me of some of sound design HZ worked on while preparing for Dark Knight. It worked on one level and on another, the music and sound design was emotionally disturbing because it was meant to be. I saw the iMax version which was very loud and some of the high pitched dissonances really got to me. Quiet moments to gain equalibrium & perspective were missing which added to the overall unresolved tensions the movie brought up. I understand the creative choices. Did I like the movie? Not sure.


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## C.R. Rivera

Frederick Russ said:


> The movie is supposed to be disconcerting... which was very loud and some of the high pitched dissonances....Quiet moments to gain equalibrium & perspective were missing which added to the overall unresolved tensions the movie brought up.



If I might add to this: disorientation....the crux of being under fire constantly, where from the air, or, the ground. The Stuka sirens were quite realistic, as they were supposed to create "terror". From rifle or artillery, there is generally little advance warning, but the result was the same. The cumulative din of noise, dischordant voices, movements among the crowded beaches, etc., etc. I would say that Nolan and Zimmer created a very close to real audio experience.


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## Gerhard Westphalen

Frederick Russ said:


> Did I like the movie? Not sure.


I felt the same way. Give it a few days...


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## NoamL

Interstellar was already uncomfortably loud for me in 2 places, so I'll wait until this comes out in a format where I can listen responsibly. Excited to hear it, though.

it's really cool that scores are getting more and more mainstream press btw.


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## Grim_Universe

Watched the movie in the cinema. It feels very modern in many ways, and I liked it a lot. HZ score feels very modern too, it works like a perfect accompaniment to the video, but I don't remember a single theme from it. Maybe it's good, maybe it's not.. who knows. Movies and music become very abstract nowadays, and this feel adds a sense of depth to the plot. Maybe it provokes the imagination of the viewer? Anyway, this movie is a really good job of Nolan and Zimmer.


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## Rctec

mc_deli said:


> Should I make Ms Deli sit through it on Saturday night date night...? ...knowing the movie has had pretty poor reviews... but that interview makes it very interesting... I also met a guy on the beach today who said it was like watching 20,000 Brits queuing and getting shot at, which, as accurate as it seems, isn't quite as good a sales pitch as HZ's blooming phone interview dialogue... hmm



where do you get your reviews?!?
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/dunkirk_2017


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## rottoy

I could see this movie getting some piss-poor reviews from people who have very sensitive hearing.
Maybe that's mc_deli's entire social circle, given that we're a community of musically inclined individuals.

Personally I was kind of surprised my ears could actually take the beating they received during Dunkirk. What an experience.


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## AlexanderSchiborr

Somehow a week ago I had a quick listen to one of that Dk pieces and first it didn´t catch that much. But like often: I give things very often a second try. And when listening to the whole soundtrack as a unit, I actually gain more interest towards it, suprisingly for me I have to say, because I normally have a very nervous finger when it comes to HZ and skip most of his music from the past 1.5 decades.


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## Flux

The score really shines along with the movie - listening to it on Spotify or YouTube doesn't do the work justice. Saw it in IMAX last week, and it's such a unique movie experience that you cannot miss in a theater.

For me, definitely one of Nolan/Zimmer's best works.


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## jononotbono

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Somehow a week ago I had a quick listen to one of that Dk pieces and first it didn´t catch that much. But like often: I give things very often a second try. And when listening to the whole soundtrack as a unit, I actually gain more interest towards it, suprisingly for me I have to say, because I normally have a very nervous finger when it comes to HZ and skip most of his music from the past 1.5 decades.



Have you watched the film?


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## sherief83

I haven't watched the movie yet and decided not to check the soundtrack on its own until I've seen the movie it self to enjoy it. 

The reason I'm commenting though is whenever I see someone mention melody or why the music wasn't gripping on its own, I'm thinking after some 10 years of nolan/zimmer why are we looking for gripping melodies when the works of these two don't need it at all? Its tire some to read this comment over and over.

To me for example, interstellar needs to be watched for the Score to be appreciated. I don't find listening to the score on its own a fulfilling experience musically speaking but every time I watch interstellar with Hans's Score, I get emotional and it is a complete and fulfilling experience. What I'm saying is, if you are listening to a known symphony but take the brass and woodwinds out of it, it will be weird, but if you put everything back and you like the symphony fully, then it is fulfilling. 

I'm saying Nolan's visual, Dialogue/sfx + Hans score is needed for the full symphony to be appreciated. I think that is far more important and ground breaking than rolling an old saying of bernard herrmann that good score needs to stand on its own to be "good". I think the Nolan+Zimmer combination proves that is not always the case and we need to have an open mind going into these things.

My 2 cents. carry on.


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## Kyle Preston

rottoy said:


> Personally I was kind of surprised my ears could actually take the beating they received during Dunkirk. What an experience.



I felt the same. We sat in the front row (theater was packed) and IMAX was super-loud, super-immersive! It's one of those films you don't realize you love until a couple days go by. Initially walking out of there, my wife and I thought "what the hell did we just experience?" – which I'm sure was intentional. After reflecting a bit, your brain figures it out. It's gritty and beautiful. The sound design was impeccable. 

The soundtrack sustains _Shepard Tone_ tension throughout; which is quite a feat. Before others jump in complaining about the lack of 'memorability' in the music, I'd like to point out that creating a film with the goal of putting you in the characters' tense experience – regimental marches with hummable melodies probably won't help. Please spare us the *"make music great again"* arguments.


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## mc_deli

Rctec said:


> where do you get your reviews?!?
> https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/dunkirk_2017


Well, Miss Deli liked the movie. I was surprised. Very surprised. I grew up watching WW2 films and playing WW2 games and DK was just from another planet. It was so much more like watching Koyaanisqatsi than the Dirty Dozen!

I thought the score was totally nuts, off the wall and took incredible risks. Sonetimes it sounded horrible! But the effect was incredible.

I am very glad I had read that interview for some context about the audio world.

Overall about the film I have come away a little unsatisfied as I was expecting to learn something new about the historical context. I have more doubts now about who did what.

Perhaps I was also hoping for a slightly more blatant connection to the fate of the 1.2 British citizens currently in the process of being abandoned by the idiotic British government. But that is perhaps another story.


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## guydoingmusic

Just home from seeing it. I must say... I'm thoroughly impressed. Loved how "off" I felt through the whole film. From the first gunshot to the end. Well done @Rctec. Of course, my wife is slightly aggravated now. She literally jumped in her seat with nearly every gunshot. So it was like a double treat for me!!!


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## ctsai89

I'm goign to watch the film tomorrow.! 

Let's see if all you're saying about the music/film is true


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## mc_deli

Was anyone else disappointed that William Shatner didn't put in an appearence?


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## AlexanderSchiborr

jononotbono said:


> Have you watched the film?



No..I try to avoid watching war movies for some personal reasons.


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## jononotbono

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> No..I try to avoid watching war movies for some personal reasons.



Fair enough. Although it's a fantastic film. Well I think it is.


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## ctsai89

So I finally watched the movie. Okay honestly it was good but I didn't feel the tension the same way most people would feel from movies due to the fact that my tolerance for it is probably too high from listening to all the Wagnerian/Scriabin harmonic tensions...

And honestly nope, besides the sound design (which was really good, I loved the bass) I dind't find the music that special or interesting either. Octatonic/dimished scale upwards? come on... 

I still like Hans Zimmer


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## guydoingmusic

ctsai89 said:


> So I finally watched the movie. Okay honestly it was good but I didn't feel the tension the same way most people would feel from movies due to the fact that my tolerance for it is probably too high from listening to all the Wagnerian/Scriabin harmonic tensions...
> 
> And honestly nope, besides the sound design (which was really good, I loved the bass) I dind't find the music that special or interesting either. Octatonic/dimished scale upwards? come on...
> 
> I still like Hans Zimmer


I think you have to read/listen to the interviews. Nolan said he didn't want the regular thematic stuff. I think you missed the point of how the sound design linked together with the music. For instance, the boats engines were in the same tempo as the music.


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## ctsai89

guydoingmusic said:


> I think you have to read/listen to the interviews. Nolan said he didn't want the regular thematic stuff. I think you missed the point of how the sound design linked together with the music. For instance, the boats engines were in the same tempo as the music.



I don't believe one has to read about a piece of art in order to like it.

But I get it and I liked it for what it was. But I didn't love it. Nothing about the music or the music made to the movie was mind blowing to me personally.

Music to be unthematic sure. But there was no pattern to the diminished scale it was just played from the bottom to the top note by note like as if anyone could've done it.


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## guydoingmusic

ctsai89 said:


> I don't believe one has to read about a piece of art in order to like it.
> 
> But I get it and I liked it for what it was. But I didn't love it. Nothing about the music or the music made to the movie was mind blowing to me personally.


Which is exactly "why" you are missing the point. Granted everyone is entitled to an opinion. But in this case... I think understanding the "why" is what puts things in tremendous perspective. From what I gathered from the interview, the music was not supposed be mind blowing as you put it. It's like one of those paintings where you have to take a step back from and view it as a whole. There's a big difference in how you view something 2 inches away vs. 10 ft away. Once you look at from the correct point of view, then I think your opinion becomes more valid. You're entitled to still not like the music. 1/3 of the equation. (Music, Visual, Sound Design) 

Imagine telling someone that has never had chocolate cake before about how delicious it is. They grab a raw egg and drink that down. Probably not the experience they wanted. That person did not get the proper experience of the chocolate cake. It would be better to let them try it in it's finished state and then choose whether to like it or not.


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## ctsai89

guydoingmusic said:


> Which is exactly "why" you are missing the point. Granted everyone is entitled to an opinion. But in this case... I think understanding the "why" is what puts things in tremendous perspective. From what I gathered from the interview, the music was not supposed be mind blowing as you put it. It's like one of those paintings where you have to take a step back from and view it as a whole. There's a big difference in how you view something 2 inches away vs. 10 ft away. Once you look at from the correct point of view, then I think your opinion becomes more valid. You're entitled to still not like the music. 1/3 of the equation. (Music, Visual, Sound Design)
> 
> Imagine telling someone that has never had chocolate cake before about how delicious it is. They grab a raw egg and drink that down. Probably not the experience they wanted. That person did not get the proper experience of the chocolate cake. It would be better to let them try it in it's finished state and then choose whether to like it or not.



when I said "music made to the movie" I was talking about the whole equation. The movie as a whole did not blow my mind in any way. But for your info, I did like it. Just expected a bit better but did not hit that threshold for me.


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## mc_deli

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...n-african-dunkirk-history-whitewash-attitudes
There is no ideal place to raise this but is a part of the story of the film I think. For a film so immersive, so much about retelling the experience of being there, rather than a superimposed narrative, the almost all-white casting does seem to be a bit of an oversight...


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## AdamAlake

guydoingmusic said:


> Which is exactly "why" you are missing the point. Granted everyone is entitled to an opinion. But in this case... I think understanding the "why" is what puts things in tremendous perspective. From what I gathered from the interview, the music was not supposed be mind blowing as you put it. It's like one of those paintings where you have to take a step back from and view it as a whole. There's a big difference in how you view something 2 inches away vs. 10 ft away. Once you look at from the correct point of view, then I think your opinion becomes more valid. You're entitled to still not like the music. 1/3 of the equation. (Music, Visual, Sound Design)
> 
> Imagine telling someone that has never had chocolate cake before about how delicious it is. They grab a raw egg and drink that down. Probably not the experience they wanted. That person did not get the proper experience of the chocolate cake. It would be better to let them try it in it's finished state and then choose whether to like it or not.



Going to the theater and watching the movie IS the proper experience. If it does not hold up without external narrative - it does not hold up period.


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## Fab

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> No..I try to avoid watching war movies for some personal reasons.



that's mysterious


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## C.R. Rivera

mc_deli said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/comment...n-african-dunkirk-history-whitewash-attitudes
> There is no ideal place to raise this but is a part of the story of the film I think. For a film so immersive, so much about retelling the experience of being there, rather than a superimposed narrative, the almost all-white casting does seem to be a bit of an oversight...



We can always do the opposite of what the Soviets, et. al, used to do: Erase folks from history. So in this case, as a number of folks will try their hand at scoring this film differently, I can see the modern day photoshoppers/PP folks "adding" to the imagery  YMMV


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## NoamL

There *were* dark-skinned French colonial troops at Dunkirk. In fact they were fighting in the rearguard so that the Brits could get off the beach.

But when a historian pointed this out there was backlash from the right wing of the media because this person was supposedly a "Social Justice Warrior" trying to "diversify" history and distort the truth.

This is the usual case of people viewing history through its pop culture depictions, and then being surprised and annoyed at real history for not matching the movies. Just because the WW2 films we all saw growing up totally erased the presence of colonial troops in the European (and even North African!) theaters doesn't mean they weren't there.

Just about every film about Rome depicts the Romans as being uniformly white people with British accents, with non-Whites limited to roles as slaves and gladiators, but that's the opposite of the truth: Rome was a multi-ethnic empire in which people could become Latin citizens regardless of (our modern conception of) race. But then when the BBC depicts a black Roman citizen in Roman Britain, there's backlash because he doesn't look like Ray Winstone in King Arthur 2004.


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## Greg

To those claiming film shouldn't need external narrative, you've got to be kidding right? We are constantly trapped in our preconceptions. Once you discover and explore the external narrative of any piece of art, it can completely change your perspective and become profound. If you only want to experience cinema at face value, stick to watching Dora the Explorer.


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## NoamL

BTW I haven't seen the movie yet but apparently it doesn't depict the French fighting retreat at all. If Nolan just chose not to deal with that aspect of the battle, and hence omitted any French Tunisian or French Senegalese troops, tehn fair play. 

However, I *have* seen from the trailers that there is a big emphasis on the British merchant navy and how they came to the rescue. Those ships absolutely were full of people from India and Southeast Asia who served aboard the ships as "lascars" (sort of a racial caste of sailors).

The idea that the Brits were saved off the beaches by a bunch of Jerome K Jeromes in pleasure boats is historical nonsense.


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## synthpunk

But certainly understandable.

My grandfather was the same way until Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers which he thought were the bee's knees.



Fab said:


> that's mysterious


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## ctsai89

Greg said:


> To those claiming film shouldn't need external narrative, you've got to be kidding right? We are constantly trapped in our preconceptions. Once you discover and explore the external narrative of any piece of art, it can completely change your perspective and become profound. If you only wan't to experience cinema at face value, stick to watching Dora the Explorer.



Ok well I wasn't clear on what I said.

Personally I believe external narrative isn't as necessary as some poeple make it out to be. But I could argue against those that think it's completely unnecessary as well. All I'm saying is, a work of art, whether it's high art or not (and I kid you not, I did not know who Scriabin was neither did I even know he was a Russian nor did I know he was the classmate of Rachmaninoff nor did I know he was influenced by Wagner, and I discovered his music on youtube and liked it almost without much external narrative. and I was only into other kinds of music back then a whole lot more than I was into the classical genre) So all I'm saying is, a work of art, whether it is high art or low art, external narrative shouldn't be the primary reason to get you to enjoy it. That's all.


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## ctsai89

But that's only my opinion.


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## guydoingmusic

ctsai89 said:


> Ok well I wasn't clear on what I said.
> 
> Personally I believe external narrative isn't as necessary as some poeple make it out to be. But I could argue against those that think it's completely unnecessary as well. All I'm saying is, a work of art, whether it's high art or not (and I kid you not, I did not know who Scriabin was neither did I even know he was a Russian nor did I know he was the classmate of Rachmaninoff nor did I know he was influenced by Wagner, and I discovered his music on youtube and liked it almost without much external narrative. and I was only into other kinds of music back then a whole lot more than I was into the classical genre) So all I'm saying is, a work of art, whether it is high art or low art, external narrative shouldn't be the primary reason to get you to enjoy it. That's all.


But that's not what you originally said... no offense here but...

You said the music was not impressive. My argument, as is @Greg's I believe, with this particular film - understanding that the music was not meant to be held under the microscope alone and was never meant to be impressive on it's own (I don't think it was - and by no means am I trying to speak for Hans - just stating my observation). The art was the whole film in it's entirety. To scrutinize Mona Lisa's eyelashes would be a travesty to the art itself as the eyelashes were not the only part of the piece of art. 

The narrative, as you and @AdamAlake have stated that was unnecessary, was quite helpful in setting the gauge by which to measure and judge. Again, you are entitled to your opinion on all of the layers of this form of art or the piece as a whole. 

Last thing -- Spielberg made Schindler's List in black and white. It was part of the art form which he used to tell the story. If you hated black and white films and judged the film as a whole by the lack of color used in the film, then you missed an incredible, and emotionally heart-wrenching piece of art. I realize this is a bit different than Dunkirk, but just trying to show you a different side that I think you are missing.


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## AdamAlake

guydoingmusic said:


> But that's not what you originally said... no offense here but...
> 
> You said the music was not impressive. My argument, as is @Greg's I believe, with this particular film - understanding that the music was not meant to be held under the microscope alone and was never meant to be impressive on it's own (I don't think it was - and by no means am I trying to speak for Hans - just stating my observation). The art was the whole film in it's entirety. To scrutinize Mona Lisa's eyelashes would be a travesty to the art itself as the eyelashes were not the only part of the piece of art.
> 
> The narrative, as you and @AdamAlake have stated that was unnecessary, was quite helpful in setting the gauge by which to measure and judge. Again, you are entitled to your opinion on all of the layers of this form of art or the piece as a whole.
> 
> Last thing -- Spielberg made Schindler's List in black and white. It was part of the art form which he used to tell the story. If you hated black and white films and judged the film as a whole by the lack of color used in the film, then you missed an incredible, and emotionally heart-wrenching piece of art. I realize this is a bit different than Dunkirk, but just trying to show you a different side that I think you are missing.



Before we proceed, can you summarize what you learned in the interview that elevated the experience to a new level?


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## ctsai89

I'm not exactly unimpressed either. Nothing extreme


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## ctsai89

And I mean there are so many videos on the internet surfacing around regarding why Hans did this and why the it was this way and that, one of them being the sound illusion effect. So I knew that before I started watching the movie and that did not help a bit in bringing the dunkirk's experience to the same level you are experiencing.


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## Greg

AdamAlake said:


> Before we proceed, can you summarize what you learned in the interview that elevated the experience to a new level?



It was a big clue to Nolan's vision for the film. I know a lot of people at first glance felt the film was devoid of plot and character development / interest. Which is true but also means you were looking at it the wrong way.

What I felt was, the film was crafted to be a very introspective experience. The lack of dialog made the visuals and sfx massively more intense because it forced you to look for narrative in other elements and feelings. Slow quiet moments upended by explosive sfx emphasized the random chaos of war. The textural, raw, suspenseful score helped emphasize the visuals but not direct you towards specific emotions other than tension. The use of Nimrod actually halted that experience immediately for me and felt emotionally forced.

Overall it made me realize again what cinema is capable of and how much there is left to explore in the medium. I love Nolan's creative usage of timelines and how it leads multiple plots that snowball towards the end. The lack of traditional story telling created an introspective experience on a more personal level than many other films. Clearly the subjectivism of it creates opposing thoughts, and experiences, that's entirely the point.


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## synthpunk

Do you have some sound examples of your music or music you have composed for film that we can listen to in critique by the way? 



ctsai89 said:


> And I mean there are so many videos on the internet surfacing around regarding why Hans did this and why the it was this way and that, one of them being the sound illusion effect. So I knew that before I started watching the movie and that did not help a bit in bringing the dunkirk's experience to the same level you are experiencing.


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## zolhof

In my view, Dunkirk isn't your typical war hero movie, so the music adds a lot to its gritty aesthetic. The whole experience felt chaotic and disorienting, kepting me at the edge of my seat the entire time. 10/10 nerve-racking score. Imho Hans nailed it!

I overheard a guy during credits telling a friend how "HZ shouldn't score war movies" and I was like bitch please:



I pity the fool.

Fun fact: my lady slept through two-thirds of the movie  IMAX deaf-inducing levels and she didn't move a muscle. That was quite impressive!


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## mc_deli

I worked for days on my William Shatner joke from page 1 of this thread.


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## AdamAlake

synthpunk said:


> Do you have some sound examples of your music or music you have composed for film that we can listen to in critique by the way?



Do you have a specific reason for asking that, by the way?


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## vicontrolu

Film was good. Same as the soundtrack, but i cant understand all the praise. 

Interstellar just was too good


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## PeterKorcek

Just came from the theater - fantastic movie. Did not see in iMax, just regular 2D experience.
For almost 2 hours my heart stopped, the way the music accompanied the scenes and the overall atmosphere in the film was just amazing.
A bit unusual film experience for sure - characters and their development (more like mini stories), music, editing
Overall I enjoyed the movie a lot, although it was gritty and dark - 8-9/10


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## ctsai89

vicontrolu said:


> Film was good. Same as the soundtrack, but i cant understand all the praise.
> 
> Interstellar just was too good



Yep exactly the same way I felt


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## synthpunk

Film Composer Hans Zimmer on career and why "Dunkirk" is personal 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hans-zimmer-composer-movie-score-dunkirk/


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## synthpunk

People who live in Glass Houses should not throw stones.



AdamAlake said:


> Do you have a specific reason for asking that, by the way?


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## ctsai89

synthpunk said:


> People who live in Glass Houses should not throw stones.



that's stupid because I wasn't throwing stones in the first place. Just sayin how I honestly felt, there was no Hans Zimmer bashing involved and I even said I still like him. All I was saying was that I expected a bit more (and you and few others disagree and think that the score is perfect as it is which is fine) I respect Dunkirk and its music. But I don't agree with the worshipping or praising on it.

A fan shouldn't criticize someone famous just because that fan can't produce better music? Sounds like the argument teenage ravers would make when someone else tell them the DJ they like sucks.


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## synthpunk

Who said they're worshiping? Now you're putting words in people's mouths? That would be like me saying your pro 40' Germany, or anti HZ and that's why you don't like the movie. But looking at your small history of posts it just looks like you like pissing on people's fires to me.


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## JeffvR

Interesting perspective http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/08/02/dunkirk-and-the-dawn-of-the-anti-score
I haven't seen the movie so I can't judge (yet)


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## SillyMidOn

JeffvR said:


> Interesting perspective http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/08/02/dunkirk-and-the-dawn-of-the-anti-score
> I haven't seen the movie so I can't judge (yet)


Thanks for sharing this - an interesting article!


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## mc_deli

JeffvR said:


> Interesting perspective http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/08/02/dunkirk-and-the-dawn-of-the-anti-score
> I haven't seen the movie so I can't judge (yet)


Very interesting article. I agree on the main points: this frustration at lack of "learning" and the film overall missing a dimension. But I don't agree with the conclusion. I thought it did work. The overall effect was relentless, without the obvious cliched narrative, and the audio world fully supported that. I do like the sentiment at the end - it would be interesting if there are more experimental scores after this. I am fascinated by the idea of working closely with editors that use more experimental techniques...


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## AdamAlake

synthpunk said:


> Who said they're worshiping? Now you're putting words in people's mouths? That would be like me saying your pro 40' Germany, or anti HZ and that's why you don't like the movie.



Or, that would be like you insisting that he was "throwing stones". Oh wait.



synthpunk said:


> People who live in Glass Houses should not throw stones.



Ah, the classic "you cannot do better so you cannot judge" card, love that one.


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## mc_deli

I know it's Friday and raining but really guys. Life is too short!


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## Greg

Thats a nice article. Loved his quotes from Jerry Goldsmith. As I said before, this movie is incredibly subjective. The score isn't speaking to the underlying dimensions of the film at all, and I enjoyed that. It made me experience it differently than many other films. It was a big breath of fresh air from the modern "mickey mouse every emotion" type of scores.

Dunkirk's sense of awe comes from looking at war as we aren't used to seeing it. There are no typical romantic conventions or forced narratives. Which is what that reviewer was clearly looking for. The psychological aspects are profound, even without score. I think that's what I enjoyed the most. There's this relentless realism about everything that made me really think about whats going on with these characters. Their odd lack of reactions and lack of score created this sense of intrigue that most movies don't approach. It created a very realistic world inside my head during the film, and the driving suspense made sure I didn't drift out of it.


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## ctsai89

synthpunk said:


> Who said they're worshiping? Now you're putting words in people's mouths? That would be like me saying your pro 40' Germany, or anti HZ and that's why you don't like the movie. But looking at your small history of posts it just looks like you like pissing on people's fires to me.



I took the bait. You win


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## mmendez

Watched the film today with my wife and we both enjoyed it. I think the music served the film perfectly and was very effective in creating the appropriate mood, but it's not something I'd want to listen to outside of its movie context.


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## Dave Connor

I haven't had the time to see the film but certainly will (as well as HZ's Rock and Roll Orchestra live next week.)

In any case, it's important to remember how experimental the Nolan/Zimmer Dynamic Duo are. It sounds as if they have taken the next step in their adventurism to push the envelope and definition of modern film-making. Certainly commercial film making where all the studios are scared to death to do anything but repeat prior successes with as little experimentation as possible. In fact, _formula_ rules in Hollywood while these two guys and their crews are miles and miles away from that. They get an A+ just for being that daring in the face of the entrenched executive money-makers and would still deserve that grade if the film sucked. Instead they have the number one film on the planet! Truly a remarkable achievement and not the first time they've done it. 

Zimmer and Nolan are an anachronism in commercial film making and anyone interested in this art form and it's history should applaud their efforts and great success since they seem to risk all while refusing to conform to any mold or standards. All done under enormous pressure and expectations. They are truly great artists and a wonderful example to the creative-minded who want to follow in their footsteps.


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## jononotbono

Dave Connor said:


> I haven't had the time to see the film but certainly will



Ah man, if you get the time, check this out too. Looks awesome...


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## Jeremy Spencer

Saw the film a few days ago, and have let it absorb and process. Honestly, I thought it was, well...meh. Unless you're a WWII buff, it really didn't leave you with an accurate sense of what was going on, or what happened and why; it was all over the place. It was mentioned there were 400,000 troops on that beach...I didn't see anything of that magnitude, nor did I see how in the world a few merchant boats got them all out of there. And the soundtrack? Although I appreciated the non traditional, experimental aspect of it, I didn't really enjoy it. Feel free to tear me a new one, but that's my opinion


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## AlexanderSchiborr

jononotbono said:


> Ah man, if you get the time, check this out too. Looks awesome...



roflmao :D best post


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## jononotbono

Wolfie2112 said:


> I thought it was, well...meh.



I thought it was the best film I have seen in years. Absolutely incredible. I can't even comprehend how you could even think it was "meh" but hey, as you say, we have our own opinions.


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## Trombking

I haven't seen Dunkirk until now but I have seen all other Nolan movies and I'm not a fan. I can understand that many people like his movies because from a technical perspective they are all made in a great way and they try new things. But I can't relate to Nolans storytelling and character development. Everything is so slow, tedious and self-important. For me the Nolan movies are antiseptic and cold. Even in Interstellar the father and daughter relationship was filmed in a very standard way and left me cold. There is a lot of hype about his films and I can't understand why. Of course the stories of his movies are more clever than e.g. Transformers but not overly complicated. But that's only my opinion.


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## Jeremy Spencer

jononotbono said:


> I thought it was the best film I have seen in years. Absolutely incredible. I can't even comprehend how you could even think it was "meh" but hey, as you say, we have our own opinions.



Don't get me wrong though, the cinematography I found spectacular, especially the aerial scenes of the Spitfires. And the sound design was epic, but as a whole I just didn't gel with the film. I guess I'm not a Nolan fan (never was), with the exception of Dark Knight which he co-produced.


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## D Halgren

Trombking said:


> I haven't seen Dunkirk until now but I have seen all other Nolan movies and I'm not a fan. I can understand that many people like his movies because from a technical perspective they are all made in a great way and they try new things. But I can't relate to Nolans storytelling and character development. Everything is so slow, tedious and self-important. For me the Nolan movies are antiseptic and cold. Even in Interstellar the father and daughter relationship was filmed in a very standard way and left me cold. There is a lot of hype about his films and I can't understand why. Of course the stories of his movies are more clever than e.g. Transformers but not overly complicated. But that's only my opinion.



Having a 4 year old daughter, Interstellar and the theme of being separated from your children, and attempting to leave them a better world, brings me to tears, as does the beautiful soundtrack.



Wolfie2112 said:


> Don't get me wrong though, the cinematography I found spectacular, especially the aerial scenes of the Spitfires. And the sound design was epic, but as a whole I just didn't gel with the film. I guess I'm not a Nolan fan (never was), with the exception of Dark Knight which he co-produced.



Nolan co-wrote and directed The Dark Knight.


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## D Halgren

Dunkirk was glorious, but I think I lost some hearing!


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## C.R. Rivera

Trombking said:


> But I can't relate to Nolans storytelling and character development. Everything is so slow, tedious and self-important.



Try telling that to a any veteran involved in combat operations---time does often slow way down in hazardous situations, combat service also sees huge amounts of tedious "downtime" at many periods, and a narrow window of thrilling, scary, moments, and, it is rare that characters are faced with opportunity to be the hero 

Carlos
rtd navy


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## Jeremy Spencer

D Halgren said:


> Nolan co-wrote and directed The Dark Knight.



Correct, and co-produced with Emma Thomas and Charles Roven.


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## Trombking

> Try telling that to a any veteran involved in combat operations---time does often slow way down in hazardous situations, combat service also sees huge amounts of tedious "downtime" at many periods, and a narrow window of thrilling, scary, moments, and, it is rare that characters are faced with opportunity to be the hero


I was referring to Nolans general style not to Dunkirk because I haven't seen that one until now. And regarding the emotional element in Interstellar. It's not the emotion of a daughter missing her father- to that I can relate to- it's the style how it's depicted which I couldn't stand because it bordered on overacting.


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## ghostnote

Trombking said:


> I haven't seen Dunkirk until now but I have seen all other Nolan movies and I'm not a fan. I can understand that many people like his movies because from a technical perspective they are all made in a great way and they try new things. But I can't relate to Nolans storytelling and character development. Everything is so slow, tedious and self-important. For me the Nolan movies are antiseptic and cold. Even in Interstellar the father and daughter relationship was filmed in a very standard way and left me cold. There is a lot of hype about his films and I can't understand why. Of course the stories of his movies are more clever than e.g. Transformers but not overly complicated. But that's only my opinion.


I can relate to that. It begins with the casting which always seems to be very superficial and ends with the execution. Nolans works always feel more like a well produced TV-Pilot instead of a movie. I can understand that he wants his movies to be "perfect", but by trying this he's also ruining the authenticity of his stories and characters. I have to say that The Dark Knight is a great movie and Ledger played his role brilliantly, but making it to the top5 on imdb is something I'll never understand.


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## ctsai89

I was wondering, if Nolan wasn't famous to begin with, would this movie receive the same amount of viewers it has?


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## Jeremy Spencer

Good question. He most definitely wouldn't have had the budget that he did.


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## ctsai89

Wolfie2112 said:


> Good question. He most definitely wouldn't have had the budget that he did.



but let's say he's a multi billionaire to begin with. And just wanted to make a film and Dunkirk is his first film


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## Dave Connor

Trombking said:


> I haven't seen Dunkirk until now but I have seen all other Nolan movies and I'm not a fan. I can understand that many people like his movies because from a technical perspective they are all made in a great way and they try new things. But I can't relate to Nolans storytelling and character development. Everything is so slow, tedious and self-important. For me the Nolan movies are antiseptic and cold. Even in Interstellar the father and daughter relationship was filmed in a very standard way and left me cold. There is a lot of hype about his films and I can't understand why. Of course the stories of his movies are more clever than e.g. Transformers but not overly complicated. But that's only my opinion.


But one roots for the likes of Chris Nolan. Memento announced a real talent with an unconventional way of story telling. It was a small but extremely interesting, absorbing film. The Dark Knight is something on the order of a masterpiece. Not just that he got so many things right (actors, sets, costumes, street ambience, organic special effects - too many things to count including his choice for composer) but he took a widely known decades-old character and perfectly updated him into a dead-on modern sensibility: Nolan's sensibility. Also the first guy in decades to make action and car chases abundantly interesting compared to the glut of tedious boredom we've been witnessing forever. How did he do that? And that's just one of the miracles in that film.

One of the most difficult things in the world to do is make a lousy film. A good or a great film, next to impossible. (Or are you thrilled when you scroll through Netflix?) Chris Nolan creates magical moments in his films with perfect regularity. Only the very best can pull that off. As I said, he's a risk taker and that is an impossibility for someone working in the Hollywood system. He's just that good. The execs follow him, not the other way around. He must be doing something right if tens of millions of people rush out to see his movies instead of so many others.


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## Arbee

Saw the movie today and must confess I've only quickly scanned the comments in this thread. My impression - more soundtrack than score, and the way it helped maintain the tension throughout the various parallel threads of the story was both masterful and exhausting. Thumbs up from me.


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