# I've taken Classifieds out of "Latest/Recent Posts" feed



## Mike Greene (Dec 7, 2017)

The Classified Ads section has been a PIA sub-forum. We have to keep monitoring for illegal stuff, plus the subject lines are often misleading if you don't realize it's a classified ad. They might say _"VSL at half price!"_ which makes me think, _"Oh, VSL is having a sale!"_ It's annoying. (Especially since I'm the guy who has to scan for sales threads and move them into the Deals sub-forum.)

What's especially annoying is that some "members" there aren't really legitimate members. They're just professional ebay guys who found another outlet (a _free_ outlet) to sell their stuff. That's not what the spirit of the sub-section is supposed to be. It's supposed to be a place where a legitimate member has something for sale and (s)he can sell it to their friends here on the forum.

Honestly, I'd like to get rid of the section altogether, but a number of people say they like it. So for now, I'm going to experiment with keeping the section, but taking it out of the Latest Posts feed. That way, the people who like classified ads can go there if they want, but the rest of us don't have the extra clutter in our feeds.


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## chillbot (Dec 7, 2017)

I believe the word "forum" is derived from the Greek word "forum" meaning a place to meet and exchange ideas, services, goods, and sexual favors. Well now all we got left is ideas and sexual favors... thanks a lot, Mike.


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## synthpunk (Dec 7, 2017)

Chill, your a courageous person in these days of unrest 

Mike, I have gotten several very fair deals there, including freebies (no sexual favors) from all around great guys, and made some life long friends as well so I hope you do keep it please. I could also see where some of the commercial guys might not like it because it might seems to keep biz and traffic away from there sites, not saying that for Mike, just sayin'.

Here are a couple ideas...

A volunteer or small stipened staff member (free library or something a year) to monitor the ads for your concerns. No I am not volunteering 

A user post count (10, 50, 100 ?) or member time (1 month, 3 months, etc.) before you can post to the classifieds. This way you make the classifieds a member privilege.

I am pinging in a couple members that are very good with these types of things as well for any other ideas they might have.
@TigerTheFrog @rrichard63


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## chillbot (Dec 7, 2017)

I think it's a fair idea just to take it out of the recent posts feed. It shouldn't be free advertising... if you want something, you go there and look.

That said, I'm the kind of guy that, needing absolutely nothing, love browsing the classifieds just for fun. Definitely vote to keep it. I've also gotten rid of a lot of things (at very generous prices) through the classifieds here. Which is what it should be for, really.


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## cadenzajon (Dec 7, 2017)

Actually, I would vote for reinstating the classifieds in the regular Recent/Latest Posts feed. Or perhaps make it optional (user settings ftw!). I much prefer to keep my new VI-C posts on a single page (don't have time to browse through lots of different forum sections), but I've been delighted on a number of occasions by being able to pick up a lib that I've had my eye on for months/years spontaneously when a member offers it for sale.

For one, I don't recall ever being confused by "VSL @ 40% off!" thread titles. But if others are, perhaps it would be a good idea to simply bold/emphasize the forum in which each recent post exists, so that it's more eye-catching.


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## synthpunk (Dec 7, 2017)

Keeping Classifieds Subject lines basic Like...

FS: NI Komplete 11 & N

...other pertinent info in the message body

Taking time to scan the sub forums is a privilege and escape from doing real work for me.


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## chillbot (Dec 7, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> FS: NI Komplete 11 & N



How much?


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## synthpunk (Dec 7, 2017)

Very special price for you!



chillbot said:


> How much?


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Dec 7, 2017)

I think the classifieds are a great way for "musicians helping musicians." I certainly prefer to post things on here as opposed to on craigslist or eBay. 

Maybe have a selection box when creating a thread for "FS" or "WTB" which automatically puts that in the title and then leave it in the latest post feed?


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## leon chevalier (Dec 7, 2017)

I've sold and bought here and I always feel more safe here than on the other sites like ebay... That will be difficult now...


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## rrichard63 (Dec 7, 2017)

My guess is that removing the classifieds from Latest Posts and Recent Posts will turn out to be the only change needed. You can't make everybody equally happy, at least not all the time. This is the best compromise available.

On the suggestions about enforcing rules about subject lines: feasibility depends entirely on what the software platform (I'm forgetting what it's called) provides. While this idea has merit, it's not worth writing custom code. Ditto the suggestion about restricting new threads to members with a specific amount of experience (e.g. "trophy points"). That would be fine if it's already a feature of the software that just needs to be turned on.


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## jononotbono (Dec 7, 2017)

I have actually bought a few things from VI-C Members in the not so distant past from so I definitely have found it useful.


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## Mike Greene (Dec 7, 2017)

Just so we're all on he same page, the Classifieds will still be here, so everyone will still be able to buy and sell to their hearts' content. I'm just removing it from the Latest/Recent posts feed. You can still access the sub-forum here:
https://vi-control.net/community/forums/for-sale-music-gear-classifieds-free-service.66/


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## leon chevalier (Dec 7, 2017)

Yes Mike, but nobody will use it, I'm sure the view will be divided by 10 or more. 

I get your will to not turn the forum into a trading site. I think it's healthy.

But, as I'm not rich guy, my next VI is often bought with the money I get from selling others VI, most of the time here.

A fair rule, that will keep away the guys who want to do business, could be : only one thread at a time that sell only one product.

Leon


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## jononotbono (Dec 7, 2017)

leon chevalier said:


> Yes Mike, but nobody will use it, I'm sure the view will be divided by 10 or more.
> 
> I get your will to not turn the forum into a trading site. I think it's healthy.
> 
> ...



I will definitely use it. When I am looking to buy something I always have a look so I couldn’t really care less about it being in the Latest/Recent Posts feed. It makes no difference to me.


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## LamaRose (Dec 7, 2017)

Just chiming in to affirm the classifieds as a thread that I have successfully used and will continue to do so... and that I agree 100% with taking it off the feed... need to keep that open for all those HW Choir threads! Seriously, thanks for keeping the classifieds in the forum.


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## Josh Richman (Dec 7, 2017)

Keep it.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Dec 7, 2017)

leon chevalier said:


> only one thread at a time that sell only one product.


I think that's way too extreme. Many people often have many things they want to sell. What then? You have to wait for each item to sell one at a time? Could take months to sell a handful of items that would normally only take a week to sell. Having only one thread with everything makes sense but at the same time if you have a number of items, people might never see the thread and see something they'd like (since you wouldn't be able to list everything in the title).


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## creativeforge (Dec 7, 2017)

rrichard63 said:


> My guess is that removing the classifieds from Latest Posts and Recent Posts will turn out to be the only change needed. You can't make everybody equally happy, at least not all the time. This is the best compromise available.
> 
> On the suggestions about enforcing rules about subject lines: feasibility depends entirely on what the software platform (I'm forgetting what it's called) provides. While this idea has merit, it's not worth writing custom code. Ditto the suggestion about restricting new threads to members with a specific amount of experience (e.g. "trophy points"). That would be fine if it's already a feature of the software that just needs to be turned on.



Xenforo does allow filtering for privileges/permissions, yes.  

I think the Classifieds should remain, but I agree with cutting off leeches from VIC. We have members who's ONLY contributions are (for years) solely in that section, selling, btw, not buying. 

If you (Mike) decide it's not worth the aggravation (there has been some), I'm on board with that as well. But these offenders are the few spoiling it for others, who use it properly and regularly. 

As for filtering, I think it is a good idea to have a probation period, or increase the number of posts (in other sections, excluding Classifieds) required to unlock that section in order to post ads. 

Removing it from Recent Posts is a good idea (imho). The very nature of Classifieds is that we search (like Kijiji or Ebay) for things. Recent Posts should be showing the usual banter and convos updates. 

Peace...


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## Jdiggity1 (Dec 7, 2017)

If you have a spare sheriff badge, I'll happily equip my spurs and patrol the area.


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## creativeforge (Dec 7, 2017)

Jdiggity1 said:


> If you have a spare sheriff badge, I'll happily equip my spurs and patrol the area.



Citizen patrols have to remain incognito for efficiency...


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## Quasar (Dec 7, 2017)

I think the classifieds are great, have bought a few things, always with happy results.

I do, however, only consider buying from those who have a "track record" here other than simply posting sales. If I don't recognize the person I make a quick search of their past posts and see if they've had any sort of authentic presence on these boards as regular members who have ideas and opinions about things.


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## creativeforge (Dec 7, 2017)

Quasar said:


> If I don't recognize the person I make a quick search of their past posts and see if they've had any sort of authentic presence on these boards as regular members who have ideas and opinions about things.



Bing! Bing! Bing! That's exactly how it should be. A very healthy habit!


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## leon chevalier (Dec 7, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I think that's way too extreme. Many people often have many things they want to sell. What then? You have to wait for each item to sell one at a time? Could take months to sell a handful of items that would normally only take a week to sell. Having only one thread with everything makes sense but at the same time if you have a number of items, people might never see the thread and see something they'd like (since you wouldn't be able to list everything in the title).


Ok I might be too extreme  My point is : removing from the main feeds will drop the chance to sell.

If the problem is : "Mike do not want this sell forum anymore" He can do what he want, I'm fine with that.

If the problem is : "some people use it in a bad way" removing it from the main feeds sanctions the bad users and the gentlemen. Equally. So another way of solving that problem can be found.

Every law that sanction a majority because if a minority is wrongly made.

(I realize that my English is too poor for that kind of debate, I hope what I wrote made sens)

Anyway, at the end of the day, none of this is important, I think I'll manage to survive without my sell posts in the latest threads 

I love you all,

peace, love (and cinematic studio strings) to all

Leon


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## synthpunk (Dec 8, 2017)

I wanted to add that there a couple "regular" guys on there that are just impossible to buy from no matter how hard you try. It makes me laugh more than anything, usually. I do not think some of them want to sell to certain members, I have gotten the "I have a buyer for it" only to see it there weeks later still for sale or to point out that something is on sale on the manufacturer site cheaper than what they are asking only to be told to "go buy there then". I'm perfectly fine with talking to Mike about that if he cares to.


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## AlexRuger (Dec 8, 2017)

I love the classifieds and this move will make them die.

Why not make it so that new users either can't see or post in the classifieds until they've made x number of posts? Other forums do that and it works great.


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## chillbot (Dec 8, 2017)

Agree most with Alex but I see arguments for both sides.

Mike I think really all you need is one mod for the section to maintain it proper and take away the burden from you, it would go back to how it was before but better. Make sure the 'classified mod' knows which libraries are possible to re-sell, and give him or her a lot of leeway to liberally remove posts that are suspect. After all as you point out there are a lot of other outlets for reselling. Make sure every post is properly labeled FS/WTB/whatever, it wouldn't be that hard.

OK if you insist, I will volunteer my services to mod this section. And all I'm going to ask in return is a 15% cut of every sale made. Fair?


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## Quasar (Dec 8, 2017)

AlexRuger said:


> I love the classifieds and this move will make them die.
> 
> Why not make it so that new users either can't see or post in the classifieds until they've made x number of posts? Other forums do that and it works great.


Why not just go to the Classified section when you're specifically either looking to see what might be for sale, or to post a sale?

I don't see why it's a big deal either way...


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## synthpunk (Dec 8, 2017)

Yep, that's how I surf the site anyways.



Quasar said:


> Why not just go to the Classified section when you're specifically either looking to see what might be for sale, or to post a sale?
> 
> I don't see why it's a big deal either way...


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## chillbot (Dec 8, 2017)

Quasar said:


> Why not just go to the Classified section when you're specifically either looking to see what might be for sale, or to post a sale?


Yes, this makes sense of course. 


Quasar said:


> I don't see why it's a big deal either way...


Because taking any forum out of the recent posts is a death sentence to that forum. You can debate whether the forum needs a shopping mall but you can't debate whether cutting off traffic will hurt the mall. And a lot of us really enjoy window shopping. How far can I take this dumb analogy?


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## Gerry (Dec 8, 2017)

There's a Classified section? No, of course there is... I ran across that once by accident.

But wait... there's a Latest Posts section?!?! [slaps forehead] Holy moly, look at that! There is! You just made my night! No more front page for me! 

[Note: I should really take a good look around this place sometime...]


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## leon chevalier (Dec 9, 2017)

chillbot said:


> Yes, this makes sense of course.
> 
> Because taking any forum out of the recent posts is a death sentence to that forum. You can debate whether the forum needs a shopping mall but you can't debate whether cutting off traffic will hurt the mall. And a lot of us really enjoy window shopping. How far can I take this dumb analogy?


Very true, I only use the last post browsing, and I'm sure most of the VI-Controlers do the same.


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## jtnyc (Dec 9, 2017)

Personally, I like seeing what people are selling in latest posts. It's the latest posts section after all. If your going to remove them, then why not remove commercial announcements and deals deals deals as well as they are all focused on selling products. 

I'd leave it as is. If someone wants subject specific threads, they can just go to the appropriate section.


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## Mike Greene (Dec 9, 2017)

Ain't nothin' final yet, and I'll give it some thought, but ... since I took Classifieds out of the Latest Posts, there are 10 threads that saw action in the last 48 hours, so I don't think this has been a death knell.

More important in my view, those 10 posts no longer clutter the Latest Posts feed. (The word "clutter" is just my opinion, but I don't think I'm alone in that.) As it is now, someone logging in and checking Latest Posts needs to go all the way to Page 4 just to see all the posts in the last 24 hours. That's a lot of posts to scan! Honestly, I sometimes think the forum could afford to be a little _less_ active. Unless you log in once or more per day, it's almost impossible to keep up. (Hence the newsletter.)

Back to the word "clutter" - here's the difference between a Classified ad and the Commercial Announcements or Deals, Deals, Deals posts: A classified "for sale" item is looking for ONE person to buy that item. Why should _everybody_ have to see a WTB listing from somebody who wants Waves Platinum for cheap? A Commercial Announcement or Deal is targeted at _lots_ of people. People _want_ to know when a developer releases something.

Again, I'm not eliminating the section. It's right there, ready to be clicked on. If adding a second bookmark to your browser is too much effort, that's on you, not me.

I may be proven wrong, but I'm pretty confident the section will remain active. I seriously doubt people with things to sell are going to stop posting them here. Their alternatives are ebay, which will cost them money and has all the usual ebay problems, or Craigslist, which is only local, so pretty much useless. If someone posts an ad here on VI-C for a plug-in at a decent price, it's gonna sell, whether it's in the Latest Posts or not. Perhaps not as quickly, but it will sell.

So for now, we'll see how it goes.


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## amorphosynthesis (Dec 9, 2017)

chillbot said:


> I believe the word "forum" is derived from the Greek word "forum" meaning a place to meet and exchange ideas, services, goods......


Partially Irrelevant to the topic; Forum is actually a Latin word not greek, it used to be the Roman marketplace back then.


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## synthpunk (Dec 9, 2017)

There sure are some lazy forum browsers here. Jeese!


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## AlexRuger (Dec 9, 2017)

Quasar said:


> Why not just go to the Classified section when you're specifically either looking to see what might be for sale, or to post a sale?
> 
> I don't see why it's a big deal either way...



I don't think I've ever been specifically looking to buy something and then go "let's see if it's for sale on the VI Control classifieds!" Usually what I would buy is something used (actually, more like "by definition," not "usually"), or something I've filed away as a "want" in the back of my mind but haven't wanted enough to actually seek out. Instead I'd see the new post, get reminded of the thing, go "oh yeah I want that, let's see if I have enough cash at the moment..." and then buy it if the price is right.

I doubt I'm alone in this behavior, financially irresponsible as it may be.


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## Quasar (Dec 9, 2017)

AlexRuger said:


> I don't think I've ever been specifically looking to buy something and then go "let's see if it's for sale on the VI Control classifieds!" Usually what I would buy is something used (actually, more like "by definition," not "usually"), or something I've filed away as a "want" in the back of my mind but haven't wanted enough to actually seek out. Instead I'd see the new post, get reminded of the thing, go "oh yeah I want that, let's see if I have enough cash at the moment..." and then buy it if the price is right.
> 
> I doubt I'm alone in this behavior, financially irresponsible as it may be.


I supposed we're all biased based on our own particular browsing habits. I don't go looking to see if something specific is on the VI Classifieds either. I just occasionally go to there to see what's on sale, and determine if anything has been posted that I would want at a better price than I am likely to otherwise find.

But in my case the "latest posts" feature has nothing to do with it, as I haven't tended to use that feature anyway (although I have been using it some lately). To me, it just makes sense navigate to that forum when one is in the mood to window shop or possibly buy something. It's certainly quick & easy enough to do.


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