# Kawai ES110 or other



## willie45 (Jun 28, 2020)

I am interested in the ES110 too as a MIDI controller. It doesn't have a USB out port and has 5 pin DIN MIDI in and out. 

Is the lack of USB out significant? Is it just a case of using a different cable to connect to your computer for the use with your DAW or is there a limitation I've missed? I'd really like to know before I commit.

Thank you


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## Quasar (Jun 28, 2020)

If the keyboard only has the older MIDI I/O, then you need an interface to connect it to. If your audio unit doesn't have MIDI I/O, then you could get something like this, which will give you a USB port to connect to your computer:









iConnectivity mio 1x1 USB MIDI Interface


1x1 USB MIDI Interface for Mac or PC, USB Bus Powered, with 2 x MIDI DIN Ports, Plug-and-play Operation, and 5' Cable




www.sweetwater.com


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## willie45 (Jun 28, 2020)

Not sure. These are from the manual?


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## synthesizerwriter (Jun 28, 2020)

USB MIDI is the same MIDI data carried by the 5-pin DIN sockets, but carried over a USB connection instead. A MIDI 'interface' just converts between 5-pin DIN MIDI and USB MIDI, mainly because most computers 'speak' USB and not 5-pin DIN - the old Atari ST being a notable exception.

So, the lack of a USB socket is not significant - other than it will require you to use a MIDI interface to connect the 5-pin DIN to your computer. Is it a limitation? Well, that depends on how you view having to buy yet another box and connect it to your computer... or how you view 'two MIDI cables and one USB cable' versus 'one USB cable'...

(You will need a cable from the MIDI Out of the ES110 to the MIDI In of the MIDI Interface if you want to play on the ES110 and hear the notes played by the DAW/VSTs in the computer, plus the USB to USB cable between the MIDI Interface box and the computer. If you also want to use the ES110 to generate sounds that are controlled by the computer then you will need to add a cable from the MIDI Out of the MIDI interface to the MIDI In of the ES110. Any decent MIDI Interface box should have clear instructions on how to do all of this interconnection stuff, as well as product support if you get lost in this maze of Ins and Outs!)

One piece of caution: Avoid any 'low-cost/easy-solution' cable that has 5-pin DIN on one end and USB on the other (sometimes with a blob in the middle). These can often have problems with some types of MIDI data (sysex and controller messages). instead, buy a dedicated MIDI interface 'box' like the iConnectivity mio mentioned above, or if you also need an audio interface, then go for a combined audio/MIDI interface - a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 for example (there are plenty of others). Having a separate audio interface when your computer already has audio I/O may seem over the top, but computer audio I/O is not always as high quality as the specifications might suggest. As always, do your research before committing on any MIDI or audio/MIDI interface - there are many products and many manufacturers, and huge variations in the number of audio and MIDI inputs and outputs they provide.

Sorry about the long and detailed post!


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## SGordB (Jun 28, 2020)

willie45 said:


> Not sure. These are from the manual?



To use it as a controller, all you have to do is plug the MIDI end (the MIDI IN jack, I believe) of one of those adapter cables into the MIDI OUT on the ES110, then plug the USB end into your computer. More granularity here: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2694031/kawai-es110-as-a-midi-controller.html


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## willie45 (Jun 28, 2020)

Thank you both for your help. I appreciate the detailed reply synthesizerwriter and the loink SGordB

I'n a bit confused though. Is the low cost option is the adapter cable but it might not work well? Or do you men the cable in the connect mic?

Also I'm not sure about the Scarlett 2i2. I have one which I use for recording guitar and vocals but it doesn't have any midi connections?

Sorry but I'm probably missing something here.


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## synthesizerwriter (Jun 28, 2020)

My bad. 2i4 is the Scarlett with MIDI! And I meant to avoid the low-cost MIDI-to-USB cables which have blobs in the middle. There's probably way too much detail here: https://blog.synthesizerwriter.com/2017/01/midi-interfaces-and-modulation-wheel.html


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## synthesizerwriter (Jun 28, 2020)

If you already have an audio interface then I would go for a dedicated MIDI interface - like the mio (there are others!). Or you could sell the 2i2 and get a 2i4...that way you get a single box that does everything...


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## willie45 (Jun 28, 2020)

No, it was my mistake. You were perfectly clear. I appreciate your patience. 

Initially I saw this in stock in the UK:

https://www.roland.com/uk/products/um-one_mk2/
That's the sort of thing I'd need?

The other option is go for the 4i4 option as you suggest. (A neater option and not too many £ if I sell the 2i2) I see it has the two MIDI ports in the back so I'd just buy a couple of 5 PIN to 5Pin DIN cables and connect these up and I'd be away?

I've got it ( I hope ) now


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## SGordB (Jun 28, 2020)

I didn't even realize simple converters/adapters are being called MIDI "interfaces," but it seems the good ones (happy customers) like the M-Audio Uno (which I have) and the Mio are and the cheap ones (unhappy customers) aren't. But I believe they all have a thingie in the middle, by necessity.


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## SGordB (Jun 28, 2020)

Yeah -- looks like the UM-ONE mk2 is a good one too.


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## synthesizerwriter (Jun 28, 2020)

They are all 'interfaces' if I was being formal... But I am always very cautious about the very low-cost unbranded 'blobs' that can cause all sorts of problems. A branded Roland UM-One would be okay (I'm just very averse to 'blobs' having spent a lot of time fixing people's problems with them.) as would a mio. I suggested a combined audio/MIDI interface because it requires just one USB cable, and this means that people tend not to use USB Hubs (which is another topic).


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## synthesizerwriter (Jun 28, 2020)

I have an M-Audio Uno, a Scarlett 2i4, an IConnectivity MIDI4+, a Blokas MIDIHub and two M-Audio 8X8/s... I'm considering a Bomebox at some stage...


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## synthesizerwriter (Jun 28, 2020)

In the past, I have had an Opcode MIDI Translator, a Motu MIDI TimePiece, an Opcode Studio 3, an Opcode Studio 5s, and deliberately destroyed several cheap blobs...


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## SGordB (Jun 28, 2020)

synthesizerwriter said:


> They are all 'interfaces' if I was being formal... But I am always very cautious about the very low-cost unbranded 'blobs' that can cause all sorts of problems. A branded Roland UM-One would be okay (I'm just very averse to 'blobs' having spent a lot of time fixing people's problems with them.) as would a mio. I suggested a combined audio/MIDI interface because it requires just one USB cable, and this means that people tend not to use USB Hubs (which is another topic).



Yes, you're right to call them interfaces. When I read your first comment, I thought your recommendation to buy a MIDI interface could be overkill, because my head is still in the 90s when those were typically expensive multiport devices (like the MOTU 8x8, which I still have, but no longer use). But when I scooted over to Amazon to get up to speed, I immediately saw this is what the M-audios et al. call their single port ... units, like the Uno.


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## Quasar (Jun 28, 2020)

SGordB said:


> I didn't even realize simple converters/adapters are being called MIDI "interfaces," but it seems the good ones (happy customers) like the M-Audio Uno (which I have) and the Mio are and the cheap ones (unhappy customers) aren't. But I believe they all have a thingie in the middle, by necessity.


Yeah, I've always used the boxes with 4x4 or 3x3 capability, but the "1x1" are often cables with the little thingies, I suppose because the more expanded housing is not necessary. The main thing I agree is to get from a reputable brand: M-Audio, Roland, iConnectivity etc. products will likely be fine, as will the MIDI ports on any of the mainstream USB audio interfaces that have them.


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## willie45 (Jul 3, 2020)

Hi

I'm posting to let you people who helped me know what I bought.

I took a punt in the ES110 after hearing some very favourable reviews and took confidence from the shop's generous 30 - day return period. I set it up and so far I love it. The actions is pretty much exactly what was looking for and I like it every bit as much as my Roland.

I connected it via a single MIDI cable to the Scarlett 4i4 ( which I also bought ) and so far all is good in the department too. 

Can I just ask for clarification @synthesizerwriter, about what you mean here?

"_*If you also want to use the ES110 to generate sounds that are controlled by the computer then you will need to add a cable from the MIDI Out of the MIDI interface to the MIDI In of the ES110*_*"*

I've a cable going from the MIDI Out in the ES110 and to the MIDI In on the Scarlett but I'm not sure what the other bit means. Sorry, but I'm new to this stuff.

All in all I'm very pleased, and I really can't believe how much I like the feel of this piano. 

Thank you all for your help.


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## synthesizerwriter (Jul 3, 2020)

@willie45 Ah, that's the bit where we go 'down the rabbit hole'. The MIDI cable from the MIDI Out socket on the ES110 carries the information about what you play on the ES110 keyboard, and conveys that information through the Scarlett 4i4 interface, where the MIDI gets wrapped in USB, and then goes along the USB cable into the computer and eventually into the DAW. So what you play on the computer eventually ends up in the DAW, where you can record it. DAWs can usually record and playback two types of information: audio and MIDI. Audio is like a tape recorder, MIDI is like a piano roll...) Once in a DAW, you can use MIDI information to control (play) other sounds using plug-ins (often called VSTs, which are one flavour of plug-in.).

But if you connect the MIDI Out socket of the Scarlett 4i4 into the MIDI In socket of the Kawai ES110, then information can travel the opposite way - from the DAW via USB, then via MIDI, and finally to the ES110. When the Kawai ES110 receives MIDI information then it will play the corresponding notes with whatever sounds you have selected on/in the ES110 - piano, organ, strings, harpsichord, vibraphone, bass, etc. The keys on the ES110 won't move, but the notes will sound as if the keys were being played. So now the DAW is the controller, and the ES110 is making the sound.

So when you add this second cable, then all sorts of additional things can happen. For instance, you could play a duet with yourself (record the first part into the DAW as MIDI, then play it back so that the ES110 plays that part, whilst you play the second part of the duet on the ES110.) You could 'record' a tricky bit of Chopin slowly as MIDI information in the DAW, and then speed it up. You could edit a 'recording' of your playing by altering the MIDI information in the DAW, so that minor timing or touch defects can be fixed. And more...

In summary, yes, you can use the ES110 as a MIDI Controller, but as a side effect, you can have all sorts of extra facilities if you want. You don't need to do any of this, but if you want to explore, then you have the basis of a huge set of capabilities. The plug-ins that I mentioned are what a lot of the discussion on the rest of this forum is about, and you can make just about any sound with the right plug-in: from orchestral to synthetic. Plug-ins also allow you to change the audio: reverb, echo, vibrato, tremolo, but also the MIDI - in fine detail, or in ways that you may never have thought of... (Just one example: If you've ever heard of Olafur Arnalds, then the way that he gets all of those extra notes playing when he plays piano is by processing MIDI information live, and you can do things like that with plug-ins inside a DAW (Look up 'Stratus' on the Spitfire Audio web-site....))

Again, you don't need to connect that second MIDI cable, but if you do, then you can do almost anything!


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## willie45 (Jul 3, 2020)

Wow thank you for your very detailed and helpful response. I can see what you mean now and will keep that up my sleeve for when I get to grips with the basic stuff. Its a pretty steep curve and sometimes I feel I have to go in about 10 different directions at once. Its pretty exciting, though. I wish I was 30 years younger! 

I appreciate your help


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## synthesizerwriter (Jul 4, 2020)

My pleasure! You are welcome. Enjoy making music!


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