# Why do we all have to be Zimmer clones?



## sourcefor

Don't get me wrong , I LOVE Hans Zimmer and he is a BIG influence on me, but I would like to see more orchestration and Scoring videos/courses on the Walter Murphy type big band type of scoring! Michael Giacchino's score for the incredibles for instance, was great There are some of us that score broadway shows and Circus acts! Every course I have taken is the same style of Big bombastic Trailer style music. And while I do like the style of music, it would be nice to have a variety of different styles around to choose from. So if anyone has seen or knows of this please let me or us know! We need more variety in music, not just multiple's of Hans Zimmer(massive respect for the man). Family guy has great score if you are interested! Thanks for listening!


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## Rodney Money

Concerning "Zimmer clones" it's simple, you take a small melodic element layering it with sound, meaningful performance, something old, something new, creating something powerful that's truly attainable in our very own DAWs. It's a fun game to play. It just takes dedication and a determination that comes from within.


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## sourcefor

Don't get me wrong I love all movie music and ALL music in general! I would just like to see tips and tricks in different genres especially big band , broadway and world music styles. I know not very popular but it is prevalent in some aspects of media today! And I get your point as I Love what I do and do it 14 hours a day, just like to see other peoples workflow and tips and tricks i may not have thought of1


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## TIM_STEVE_97

Simple. Not everyone listens to traditional orchestral music anymore... so music like hans' and many others are filling the space..


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## sourcefor

I get that but like I said some of us are doing a hybrid style of fusing big band type arrangements into modern pop styles as well as some broadway styles and would like to see how other people do it particularly arranging for big band and jazz. As it does have its place as not all movies are superhero movies!


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## sourcefor

Like what Hans did for the simpsons was great! That's what I'm talking about!


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## sourcefor

And like I said I love and respect the work of Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Brian Tyler , Steve jablonski and others just want a little variety is all!


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## Emmanuel Rousseau

Well, film music is just like music in general : lots of people doing the exact same thing to follow the trend.
Same thing happens in rock, metal, hip hop...
Sometimes I don't like the trend, and sometimes I do.
Sometimes I want some Snoop Dogg, and sometimes I want some Yes.


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## Rodney Money

sourcefor said:


> Don't get me wrong I love all movie music and ALL music in general! I would just like to see tips and tricks in different genres especially big band , broadway and world music styles. I know not very popular but it is prevalent in some aspects of media today! And I get your point as I Love what I do and do it 14 hours a day, just like to see other peoples workflow and tips and tricks i may not have thought of1


I am going to try to write this post hopefully without offending anyone, but the difficulty with jazz is that you literally have to think about what a live player can do writing not only with melodic material but also complex jazz chord progressions, and then thinking of ways to score the instruments in a real life situation. So in short, jazz you have to understand live players, complex jazz theory, and even improvisation which highly shortens the market of interest, but with epic music you just need to do whatever sounds good.

With big band music you can have intros, verses, chorus, bridges, spots for solos, and then a shout chorus for the finale. You have 2 altos, 2 tenors, baritone saxophones, then 2 to 5 trumpets who can play with different mutes and double on flugelhorns, 2 to 5 trombones including bass trombone who can play with different mutes, and then rhythm section that can include: guitar, piano, drums, bass, and auxiliary percussion. You must understand how each of these instruments works in a live situation and how they work together.

You must also think about where and who you want the melody to be performed by and what or who is playing the harmony. Are trumpets in unison or is the first trumpet playing the melody with the rest of the trumpets in homophonic texture. What does the rest of the ensemble do when the trombones have the melody? Stabs by the trumpets, beautiful flowing chords in the saxophones? How are you going to score the harmony itself: open chords, close and tight, or across the section? Are you going to compose out a part for the rhythm section or simply a guide to use?

You see this is a lot more complicated than: go in your DAW, staccato strings, epic drum groove, synths, and horn melody. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I find that music very beautiful and even emotional, but for me to write for live big band and jazz ensembles I needed to have a more classical approach and hands on experience to work with the jazz medium.


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## Hannes_F

The funny thing is that the 'Zimmer clone' style is so different from most of what Zimmer wrote.


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## Zhao Shen

If you're talking about the availability of courses, it's obvious - there's more demand, and more demand drives more revenue. If you're talking about industry saturation, then it's possibly even simpler. Composers write what they want (kind of). There are plenty of people following in the footsteps of Zimmer, and plenty who enjoy more traditional aspects of writing and orchestration. There's no fault in either approach.

The real question is, why are people labelled "Zimmer clones"? I have yet to hear anyone called a "Mozart clone" or "Rossini wannabe".


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## Fab

yeah yeah, another one of these threads....


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## Ashermusic

Hannes_F said:


> The funny thing is that the 'Zimmer clone' style is so different from most of what Zimmer wrote.




True Dat. Driving Miss Daisy vs Black Rain vs Gladiator, etc.


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## Rodney Money

Zhao Shen said:


> I have yet to hear anyone called a "Mozart clone" or "Rossini wannabe".


That's a different forum if you want to be called that.


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## gsilbers

Hannes_F said:


> The funny thing is that the 'Zimmer clone' style is so different from most of what Zimmer wrote.



this!. 


has zimmer style seems to be refering to black hawk down days. but kung fu panda /madagascar are very different.


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## Greg

Here's a gold mine for all types of music, Rick Beato's channel:

https://www.youtube.com/user/pegzch


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## sourcefor

OK let me rephrase...casue I think Hans has a unique gift for finding what works in the film and for coming up with new a different ideas. That is what i like most about him! And I do NOT want to get into another Hans Zimmer discussion..I just want to find some courses and/or videos on composing and arranging for the big band or possibly broadway style of music and not just the same re-hashed style in every course (sans Alan Mayrand's course). And I have taken many of these courses including Mike Verta's, Alain's and am currently enrolled in the Hans course. I LOVE to learn and want to see some courses in this different style is all Not to take away from anyone else!


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## sourcefor

And I Love Rick Beato's Vids and have watched all of them and you are correct it is a Goldmine!!!


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## sourcefor

I didn't mean to open a can of worms with the title of my post...I just knew it would get attention! Sorry!


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## NoamL

I'm a proud Zimmer imitator: I don't write like Zimmer, and neither does he!


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## sourcefor

I am NOT dissing any Imitators of any sort (we All imitate)!


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## babylonwaves

sourcefor said:


> Like what Hans did for the simpsons was great! That's what I'm talking about!


what danny elfman did for the simpsons was even greater: he wrote the main theme ...


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## sourcefor

Yup there's NO crying in baseball!!!!! And the Simpsons!!!


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## sourcefor

Yes a GREAT theme -The simpsons! Danny elfman rules!


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## sourcefor

thats what I'm talking bout..But I guess i should just do what Mike VERTA SAYS AND TRANSCRIBE, TRANSCRIBE , TRANSCRIBE!!


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## Nick Batzdorf

I have his hairstyle. Does that qualify me as a clone?


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## givemenoughrope

I had to be on the last ad pitch bc that was the temp track.

Thanks, Hans! At least I used zebra..


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## sourcefor

LOL...


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## sourcefor

Again I am NOT Dissing any clones or what ever you want to call them..I lOVE that style, I would just like to see more info on the Incredibles, Simpsons, Family guy style of writing is ALL!!


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## sazema

I'm not the clone! That's why I refused to buy HZ percussion library


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## Smikes77

HeadShot said:


> Hans Zimmer is also very good at Big band :
> 
> 
> 
> this man is just incredible...the diversity of his scores is just...wow...it's like twenty composers in one...just wow...
> 
> 
> Please Hans ! more Big band !
> 
> *PLEASE HANS !! A BIG BAND MASTERCLASS !! PLEASE !!*





http://vi-control.net/community/threads/guide-to-writing-jazzy-broadway-music.48813/#post-3900528

Thought you might be interested in this...


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## sourcefor

Smikes77 said:


> http://vi-control.net/community/threads/guide-to-writing-jazzy-broadway-music.48813/#post-3900528
> 
> Thought you might be interested in this...


Thanks very much!


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## Smikes77

sourcefor said:


> Thanks very much!



You`re welcome


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## Sebastianmu

Blimey. A @HeadShot sighting!


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## SillyMidOn

HeadShot said:


> *PLEASE HANS !! A BIG BAND MASTERCLASS !! PLEASE !!*


... not sure if you are being serious or very, very sarcastic...
... I do know what it should be, though...


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## novaburst

the two pieces are from Hanz, the pieces are completely different, if you did not know Hanz wrote the for the movie called NEXT you would never know it was him.

We cant keep blaming Hanz for epic or bombastic orchestral, it is just a type of orchestral music best suited for movies.

and many are into it, its kind of exciting to do I guess, but there are so many types of it and no it does not all sound the same, and no it all does not sound like Hanz




Hannes_F said:


> The funny thing is that the 'Zimmer clone' style is so different from most of what Zimmer wrote.



could not have said it better, so true.

There are many movies with out the epic sound, and Hanz has been involved with them too.

Epic music has been pushed to the front line of orchestral, and its easy to tell when you look at the type of librarys that are being developed, big drum, epic, drums, forest voices, trailer brass, ARK 1, lush strings, cinematic this and cinematic that, and you name the library it will have some thing to do with cinematic, epic and big, because epic music seems to be the music composers want to create, I do feel it can be very expressive.

with all that said I haven't seen many Hanz clones, but I have seen many John Williams clones.


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## Rctec

sourcefor said:


> Don't get me wrong , I LOVE Hans Zimmer and he is a BIG influence on me, but I would like to see more orchestration and Scoring videos/courses on the Walter Murphy type big band type of scoring! Michael Giacchino's score for the incredibles for instance, was great There are some of us that score broadway shows and Circus acts! Every course I have taken is the same style of Big bombastic Trailer style music. And while I do like the style of music, it would be nice to have a variety of different styles around to choose from. So if anyone has seen or knows of this please let me or us know! We need more variety in music, not just multiple's of Hans Zimmer(massive respect for the man). Family guy has great score if you are interested! Thanks for listening!


I'd like to be an Ennio Morricone clone. Or Jerry Goldsmith. Or Jon Williams. My style is determined by my limitations. But I have my heroes!


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## TIM_STEVE_97

Don't mix jazz or big band with film music! 
Both serve a very different purpose. 
Hans Zimmer would make a horrible jazz composer lol..
However he is a film composer and a very good one at that!!


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## Ashermusic

Rctec said:


> I'd like to be an Ennio Morricone clone. Or Jerry Goldsmith. Or Jon Williams. My style is determined by my limitations. But I have my heroes!



Ah, c'mon Hans, with the right orchestrators and telling Allan to lay off the compressors, you could do a credible job on any of them.


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## Rctec

SillyMidOn said:


> ... not sure if you are being serious or very, very sarcastic...
> ... I do know what it should be, though...


Here is my one attempt at Big Band. But it would be more of a "Disaster Class"...


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## Rctec

TIM_STEVE_97 said:


> Don't mix jazz or big band with film music!
> Both serve a very different purpose.
> Hans Zimmer would make a horrible jazz composer lol..
> However he is a film composer and a very good one at that!!


As a wise music editor once said to me: " Jazz spells death at the box office..."


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## Rctec

HeadShot said:


> Of course, it was sarcasm.
> 
> If Hans Zimmer has entirely written and orchestrated this piece, as he said, I'm the King of the Universe and Santa Claus is my father.
> 
> But I do not prevent anyone from believing.



Actually, I did write and orchestrate that whole piece. That's why it's not all that good. I'm not a sophisticated jazz orchestrator or writer. But it was a lot of fun!


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## Parsifal666

Rctec said:


> I'd like to be an Ennio Morricone clone. Or Jerry Goldsmith. Or Jon Williams. My style is determined by my limitations. But I have my heroes!



It's especially cool to know a hero has heroes.


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## Nick Batzdorf

> My style is determined by my limitations



Without wanting to sound obsequious, that's actually a very interesting quote.

I think that's true of most of us (at all skill levels), and worrying about it has always slowed me down. The truth is that we'd all be a lot better off just owning it!


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## Rctec

HeadShot said:


> Sorry, I don't buy it. This piece is way too impressive technically for having been made by a "Big band rookie".


Are you actually calling me a liar?!?


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## SillyMidOn

Rctec said:


> As a wise music editor once said to me: " Jazz spells death at the box office..."


That is sadly on the whole very true. 

There have been a few great exceptions, however (and please feel free to add):
High Society
Pink Panther
A Shot In The Dark
Misson Impossible (ok, that's tv...)
Bullit
Most Spike Lee films (thanks to Terence Blanchard)
Anatomy of a Murder (Great Duke Ellington score, of which bizarrely he cannot recall much at all about in his autobiography)
The Talented Mr Ripley (ok, that's got orchestral music as well)
Birdman
Whiplash
Ascenseur pour l'échafaud (Miles Davis)
The Man With The Golden Arm
Peter Gunn (ok, that's tv...)


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## SillyMidOn

Rctec said:


> Actually, I did write and orchestrate that whole piece. That's why it's not all that good. I'm not a sophisticated jazz orchestrator or writer. But it was a lot of fun!


Sounds like it was fun. 

By the way, in jazz you don't orchestrate, you "arrange"... (he said sitting on a very high horse that was just about to throw him of...)


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## Rctec

HeadShot said:


> maybe just memory impairment


My memory might be impaired, my the memory in my original sequence is pretty accurate. You might just have th respect and decency to re-think this...


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## mac

This thread makes me think of old people who say things like "all that guitar music sounds the same to me...".


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## sourcefor

wow I am glad to have opened this can of worms, all great comments and or observations and I would NEVER blame Hans for anything..he is a true master of the game!


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## sourcefor

When I first heard Rainman and Days of thunder , i said to my self I would love to be able to do this!


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## sourcefor

And I should have started this thread with the title of 'Is there any resources available for people that compose for the Circus and Broadway (in the style of Walter Murphy and or any of the james bond films')! I apologize Hans for any grief this may have caused!


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## Ashermusic

HeadShot said:


> Sorry again but I don't know you...do I have to take your word for it and put aside my critical sense just because you are famous ?
> 
> 
> Please send me an excerpt from the project (midi file), and if it's true, I will subscribe to your masterclass.



Not because he is famous but because all he has accomplished! Why would he need to self-aggrandize to a bunch of strangers on a forum? If he says he did it, he did it.

Unbelievable, just unbelievable.


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## SillyMidOn

sazema said:


> I'm not the clone! That's why I refused to buy HZ percussion library


I am neither a Zimmer-fan nor Zimmer-hater, (nor Zimmerframe for that matter), but HZ 01 is pure awesomeness - it has to be said.* 

And for once, all those different mic positions, in this case artists' mixes, make a huge difference, like having different products. So the Alan Meyerson ones work well for more orchestral tunes, whereas the, argh, whassis name, DJ Junk (The Artist Formerly known as P Diddle Fiddle Marky Mark Tom Hulkenburg-Vorpommern) are great in their ridiculous epicness. Oops, I apologise unreservedly to @Ashermusic, who has now broken out in a cold sweat, for mentioning the word "Epic" in a thread. Oops I've done it twice, cue eczema rash as well.

*The Tombeks have a nasty ring at around 1khz


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## Dave Connor

As soon as I saw the "Big Band" comment I thought of HZ's _League of Their Own_ score as it's a favorite and I still remember leaving the theatre buzzing from the score far more than the film. I played piano in Big Bands all through college with guys like John Patitucci (Herbie, Wayne, Chick) on bass and Karl Denson (Rolling Stones, Kravitz) on Tenor Sax so I know the real thing and _League _is a fantastic fresh take on the genre and did everything and more for that film.

QUESTION? Why is Mr. Zimmer the ONLY musician here who is EVER questioned about whether he is the true author of his work? I might be a little more open to that possibility if even ONE other composer was accused of that in the last year here. I mean ANYBODY. The last guy accused here of that is in fact Hans. So it can't be objectively true because it isn't a remotely scientific survey as there is only one subject apparently. To say nothing of having an ounce of class in leveling the worst kind of charge against even a student musician let alone a guy who you can watch creating brilliant musical textures on Youtube such as the electric cello glisses used on the masterful Dark Knight score.

Tell you what, If you don't have an ounce of class then simply provide a molecule of proof of your charge of plagiarism or false representation. We're waiting...


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## mverta

HeadShot said:


> Sorry again but I don't know you...do I have to take your word for it and put aside my critical sense just because you are famous ?
> 
> 
> Please send me an excerpt from the project (midi file), and if it's true, I will subscribe to your masterclass.




In the United States, we follow a presumption of innocence, not guilt. If you contend that Hans is a liar, then the burden of proof is on you to prove it, not on him to defend it. 



_Mike


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## Mithrandir

My god, this thread has evolved into something utterly ridiculous rather fast! I'm feeling terribly ashamed in @HeadShot's place. To be honest, I thought there was some kind of sarcasm going on at first, but unfortunately I'm quite sure (unfortunately) HeadShot is just being very demeaning toward the humble gentleman that Hans is.


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## Mithrandir

mverta said:


> In the United States, we follow a presumption of innocence, not guilt. If you contend that Hans is a liar, then the burden of proof is on you to prove it, not on him to defend it.



Indeed - it's a lot easier to request the opposite be done, of course. Sigh ...

Actori incumbit probatio!


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## Mithrandir

HeadShot said:


> Actually I don't care



Dude, you know what, I _do_ care about the disrespectful way you're behaving toward Hans, and I'm sure many more do so as well. Not _because he is Hans_ - rather _because he is a human being_ (and a humble, talented one at that) who has the right to be treated as such.


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## FriFlo

Everybody calm down, please!  I think there is just a misunderstanding with the term "writing" here! It is being used here on Vi-Control as playing in stuff in the DAW. I would actually consider writing only what you are able to write with just paper and pen maybe with a piano. We all (should) know, that you cannot really transfer everything from DAW to a score and expect it to sound the same. Most film composers refer to excellent orchestrators and they would be fools not to do that, especially with a big band orientated score like that.
So, I assume, there was an orchestrator working out the arrangement based on the midi mockup. That doesn't diminish the creative work on the composition before. But I think a little respect for the orchestrators would be just, as their work is not only copying the midi to notes ...


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## Mithrandir

HeadShot said:


> Maybe because of his industrial use of additional composers/orchestrators/arrangers ?
> 
> 
> http://www.hans-zimmer.com/index.php?rub=rcprod



Well, it's not like he hides it, does he? All of those _additional composers/orchestrators/arrangers_ get the credit they deserve. Just take a look inside any CD booklet of his you've laying around (if any ...).


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## Mithrandir

HeadShot said:


> so a human being can't lie ?



Ask yourself - why _would_ he lie in this situation?


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## Mathieu A

FriFlo said:


> So, I assume, there was an orchestrator working out the arrangement based on the midi mockup.



That's not what HZ said :



Rctec said:


> Actually, I did write and orchestrate that whole piece.


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## FriFlo

Mathieu A said:


> ↑
> So, I assume, there was an orchestrator working out the arrangement based on the midi mockup.
> ↑
> Actually, I did write and orchestrate that whole piece.


I think I have heard Hans say in an interview, he doesn't write or read notes (although I am not sure and this may be an older interview) and if you would not only quote one sentence of my post, it should make sense, that I was referring to exactly that different meaning of the word writing ...


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## Mithrandir

Also, take into consideration that by assembling a huge team of contributors, including composers whom you could consider young and relatively undiscovered talents (i.e. the folk found around here) like Ramin Djawadi, Steve Jablonsky and Harry Gregson-Williams (the list goes on!), Hans gave all those people the chance to emerge as film composers! Talk about granting opportunities!


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## Mithrandir

FriFlo said:


> I think I have heard Hans say in an interview, he doesn't write or read notes (although I am not sure and this may be an older interview) and if you would not only quote one sentence of my post, it should make sense, that I was referring to exactly that different meaning of the word writing ...



He has been able to read and write notes since at least _Batman Begins_ - I've actually got a sketch in his handwriting.


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## mverta

HeadShot said:


> Actually I don't care



You don't care enough to provide evidence, just enough to slander. Pretty sure we got enough of those people as it is, thanks. 

However, if you've got a spare moment free from trolling on the board, I for one would just love to hear what you've been working on.


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## sourcefor

Yes Please do not turn this into an argument! We are all here to engage and help each other and to start bringing mr zimmer into this is not right! I only meant to bring awareness to the fact that we have minimal resources available in the genre I suggested! Hans has given more people chances and jobs in this industry than most and he should be honored for that in a world with minimal positions available!


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## TIM_STEVE_97

Rctec said:


> As a wise music editor once said to me: " Jazz spells death at the box office..."


OF course lol..


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## dgburns

Is today a full moon or something ??

-edit- 

It don't mean a thing ,if it ain't got that swing!


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## FriFlo

Well, as I said: I don't want to diminish any of Hans' accomplishments, but I also have seen many times here that he is a decent and generous person, so, I think he will agree with me that orchestrators are not just guys who copy the midi to a score ... but maybe he really did write the full score for this?! I was assuming, that he must have meant the DAW-writing, as hardly any film composer does all orchestrations by himself for big feature films ... I don't know, but he can speak for himself. At least, if he isn't pissed off and gone for good!? I hope he is not!


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## Dave Connor

HeadShot said:


> Maybe because of his industrial use of additional composers/orchestrators/arrangers ?


 All composers have teams of mockup guys and orchestrators. I know I'm part of a few. You are missing the most essential component in any composer's work back to Bach and before: The easily identifiable compositional traits of a single personality. I can identify composers whom I'm familiar with on the radio within 2 seconds often times (which I did with a Sibelius piece I have zero familiarity with just a couple days ago.) I do that all the time. I got an A in college after only a brief introduction to composers I didn't know when the teacher dropped the needle and you had to guess. If you can tell who someone is by a thumbprint you can surely tell by their musical traits. It's easy!! They all sound like themselves!!

The guys that work for Hans Zimmer are simply not capable of the remarkable things he does musically. If you can't hear the baffling things he does with triadic formations such as the low brass chords in Man Of Steel: their orchestration and the melodic things he does over them that exploit that harmony that are these perfect, unusual choices (and he was doing that kind of thing before he had any crews working for him) then you are not listening. And how do you explain that no matter who is working for him the music is always on this high level? All kinds of people have come and gone and yet it still sounds like HZ.

I listen to and study scores of lots of historic composers. I know why they're doing - I have the scores. I have no idea what Hans is doing most of the time. It's just that brilliant. If it was that easy to copy or emulate the guy why isn't there even one guy out there who sounds like him? I've heard all his acolytes. Some very talented guys but they don't sound remotely like him - ON A COMPOSITIONAL LEVEL. I'm not talking about spiccato eighth notes. I'm talking about the entire life and musical experiences that make up Hans Zimmer. That's thousands of things not a few musical tricks people mistakenly think make up his music.

Show me a symphonist every bit as good as Beethoven and a Rock band every bit as good as The Beatles and I will buy your argument that all the people they employed were equally as good as them.


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## FinGael

My two cents after reading this and the recent Jasper Blunk thread: I am not as acknowledged and skilled as a composer as many of you here, but have gone through some really rough times in my life and survived. What those experiences have taught me, and what I would like to say to everyone: be nice to others and treat them with respect.

For example being physically healthy, and to be able to walk and do things with your own hands, is really something to be grateful. One way to express this gratitude is to communicate in ways that help people around you feel good about life and themselves.

I think, or at least hope, that we all know by experience how it feels to be with someone who respects you as you are.

Treating other people well doesn't cost a dime, always creates something good and often eventually comes back multiplied to all the participants. I do not mean praising someone/something with no reason or substance, but treating people with good intentions, being honest and showing the respect everyone is worthy.

My wife works as an assistant to a lady who is in wheelchair and has no privacy; people around her 24h a day (even in the toilet). She is not able to properly speak or move her hands or feet. I truly hope that no one of you does have to go through something like that to realize how fortunate you already are.

This forum is an extraordinary place - so many passionate, talented and intelligent human beings gathered in one place. Still, it is easy to ruin it all by repeatedly throwing up our inner tensions and conflicts over the others.

Peace. Or peas. (There is a proverb in Finnish that when someone is pissed, he/she has sniffed peas (that have gotten stuck) in the nose). The choice is always ours.

Thank you.


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## mverta

I started out writing Big Band charts and pop tunes in the synth-tastic 80's. So I have plenty of thoughts about this piece.

But I'm still hung up the part where you said:


HeadShot said:


> I did not create a topic : "Hans Zimmer is a liar"...I just said I don't think he wrote and orchestrated it all by himself.



Hans said he wrote and orchestrated it all by himself, so _yes, you're calling him a liar_. Good people don't accuse others of lying without proof (taught my little boy this one early). So let's see your proof. You said you don't care about the presumption of innocence; that you don't care about people slandering others without cause. Well, considering you're a guy who has sex with animals, I'd say that's a risky position. You either have sex with animals or I'm King of the World and my father is Santa Claus. You can say that you don't, but "I don't care." What; you never lie? All you have to do is prove that you don't and I'll apologize. Also, I get to determine what _proof _is. See, this is no kind of world to live in.

Perhaps you want to issue an apology for baseless slandering of one of the board and industry's most respected members. That, or make with the proof stat. I'd recommend the former.

Do that, and I'm happy to give you my take on this killer piece.


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## NoamL

@Rctec "Jazz spells death at the box office." Yeah... I saw the recent last season of Poirot and the show no longer uses Christopher Gunning's wonderful saxophone theme?! A real pity.

@sourcefor Yes Walter Murphy is fantastic! Every act of Family Guy opens with a little 5-10 second sting on the main title theme, he's written _hundreds_ of them and they are all unique and interesting. They also cover a huge range of moods. I once just sat down with a DVD of a whole season and ripped the act intros and tried to transcribe them (it's useful to slow them down).

Check this out too:



This is seriously one of the most accomplished pieces of music I've ever heard on TV. Think about all the notes it has to hit. It has to match the action of the picture, it has to be funny, it has to be dangerous and thrilling, and it has to be deliberately dated. All at the same time.

Music like this, is a masterclass in itself because it is all in the notes. There's nothing stopping you from sitting down and transcribing it and starting to understand it technically. That's very different, I think, from all the sound design scores that have come out recently. For instance I really liked JJ's scores for Sicario and Arrival. But unless he gave a lecture or masterclass about his methods, how he created sounds etc. I wouldn't know where to start writing like that.


----------



## Rctec

HeadShot said:


> Sorry again but I don't know you...do I have to take your word for it and put aside my critical sense just because you are famous ?
> 
> 
> Please send me an excerpt from the project (midi file), and if it's true, I will subscribe to your masterclass.





HeadShot said:


> Sorry again but I don't know you...do I have to take your word for it and put aside my critical sense just because you are famous ?
> 
> 
> Please send me an excerpt from the project (midi file), and if it's true, I will subscribe to your masterclass.


I'll dig up the demo... but please don't subscribe to the Masterclass. You won't get anything out of it. It's mainly about how not to piss people off by having the arrogance of accusing them of lying.


----------



## guydoingmusic

mverta said:


> I started out writing Big Band charts and pop tunes in the synth-tastic 80's. So I have plenty of thoughts about this piece.
> 
> But I'm still hung up the part where you said:
> 
> Hans said he wrote and orchestrated it all by himself, so _yes, you're calling him a liar_. Good people don't accuse others of lying without proof (taught my little boy this one early). So let's see your proof. You said you don't care about the presumption of innocence; that you don't care about people slandering others without cause. Well, considering you're a guy who has sex with animals, I'd say that's a risky position. You either have sex with animals or I'm King of the World and my father is Santa Claus. You can say that you don't, but "I don't care." What; you never lie? All you have to do is prove that you don't and I'll apologize. Also, I get to determine what _proof _is. See, this is no kind of world to live in.
> 
> Perhaps you want to issue an apology for baseless slandering of one of the board and industry's most respected members. That, or make with the proof stat. I'd recommend the former.
> 
> Do that, and I'm happy to give you my take on this killer piece.


----------



## NoamL

When you only read as far as page 2 and post thinking this is going to be a discussion about Walter Murphy and jazz scoring







What is it with VIC lately.... y'all antsy for new libraries or something?


----------



## guydoingmusic

HeadShot said:


> I don't have to and I won't apologize for my skepticism, and I don't really care about your take on this piece. I already perfectly know that a "Big band newbie" will never be able to create such music.
> 
> Finally, I don't consider Hans Zimmer (nor you) as models when it comes to music or career.


Funny - I didn't know you are the leading expert on what someone is able to accomplish with a first attempt... 

While we are at it... I bet Hans was the second gunman on the grassy nole!!! You can't prove he wasn't!!!


----------



## Mathieu A

Rctec said:


> Curiously, I was never asked to even attempt to play another jazz chord.



So do I assume you didn't compose this?


----------



## synergy543

Rctec said:


> I'll dig up the demo... but please don't subscribe to the Masterclass. You won't get anything out of it. It's mainly about how not to piss people off by having the arrogance of accusing them of lying.


This is the funniest ripost of the year!
Hans, the guy is French, give him a break! Think of his dodgy arrogance as "diversity".


----------



## Rctec

HeadShot said:


> so a human being can't lie ?


Let me be Very Clear: every note was sequenced by me and then transcribed verbatim for the players. Actually, in a weird way, the sequenced one still sounds better, because it's crazy tight...No additional composers where used on that track. Shirley Walker and Bruce Fowler transcribed it from the midi. Shirley thought the bass part was unplayable - but Chuck Berghover proved me right and played it effortlessly. The trumpet parts came with a written warning, attached to the parts, that they might endanger the player's health. Rather than changing my arrangement, Shirley decided that was the better way to deal with my lack of knowledge... I can go on...
Regarding the "additional music" credits I give people... sometimes, yes, it's an original creation by that musician. But very often it's an arrangement of a piece of mine - and I give people that credit to advance their career. How else is anyone in this industry going to help them advance? I don't believe in "Ghost Writers", i believe in crediting my collaborators. Just the way Stanley Myers - my mentor - credited me. And if you really want to know where I learned just enough about jazz voicings- it was from doing mock-ups for Stanley, who used to write a lot of jazz. Just listen to his score on "Insignificance". And in that movie it's pretty obvious who did what.
But HeadShot, why so serious? What have I done to you? Do we know each other? What makes you call me a liar?


----------



## givemenoughrope

Hans, seriously question: have you ever thought about using some of that knowledge of jazz harmony in your scores (that's not a jab, if there are some in a score that I haven't heard). I've always appreciated that about Williams, Goldsmith, Jerry Fielding, Lalo and others. I miss it in the more visible scores of today. Alberto Iglesias being an exception. Is that just a sound that directors/producers nix from the getgo always? Even if it's in less visible cues...


----------



## desert

Rctec said:


> What makes you call me a liar?



His pure jealousy.

Just like a lot of other composers who attack you for no reason with no proof - they're just jealous of your success


----------



## NoamL

FinGael said:


> Treating other people well doesn't cost a dime, always creates something good and often eventually comes back multiplied to all the participants. I do not mean praising someone/something with no reason or substance, but treating people with good intentions, being honest and showing the respect everyone is worthy.



Perfectly stated FinGael.

Always always always assume good faith.

Even if you don't like a working composer's music everyone here should at least acknowledge that it came from hard thinking, stressful overtime, and a genuine effort to make something good.

People should also remember it's a small world professionally, likewise on VI-C. I actually got my current job via a friend here making introductions... being an Internet Dick does not help your career...

For example when I see @HeadShot I don't think of a name, but I do think of a guy who posted an amazing mockup here last year that blew many people's socks off, and then turned that thread into a rant against "epic music is ruining scoring" while refusing to confirm/deny that his mockup was indeed 100% samples even when people begged him for an overview or walkthrough. But yet he comes on this forum again and asks a composer to dig out a decades old MIDI session to _satisfy him_ that it's his original work?

Wow, man. That's some first impression...


----------



## desert

NoamL said:


> Perfectly stated FinGael.
> 
> Even if you don't like a working composer's music everyone here should at least acknowledge that it came from hard thinking, stressful overtime, and a genuine effort to make something good.
> 
> People should also remember it's a small world professionally and collaboratively.
> 
> For example when I see @HeadShot I don't think of a name, but I do think of a guy who posted an amazing mockup here last year that blew many people's socks off, and then turned that thread into a trainwreck of rants against "epic music is ruining scoring" while refusing to confirm/deny that his mockup was indeed 100% samples. But yet he comes on this forum again and asks a composer to dig out a decades old MIDI session to _satisfy him_ that it's his work?
> 
> I dunno man... look at how you look.


_Maybe it's an act of reverse psychology - where we all ask HIM to prove his music and he just drops his business card, Hans hires him, he becomes famous, so on.. blah blah_


----------



## givemenoughrope

NoamL, I think he said it was samples except for one Oboe. I think it was mostly the Hollywood series and Berlin WWs.


----------



## kclements

Rctec said:


> Let me be Very Clear: every note was sequenced by me and then transcribed verbatim for the players. Actually, in a weird way, the sequenced one still sounds better, because it's crazy tight...No additional composers where used on that track. Shirley Walker and Bruce Fowler transcribed it from the midi. Shirley thought the bass part was unplayable - but Chuck Berghover proved me right and played it effortlessly. The trumpet parts came with a written warning, attached to the parts, that they might endanger the player's health. Rather than changing my arrangement, Shirley decided that was the better way to deal with my lack of knowledge... I can go on...
> Regarding the "additional music" credits I give people... sometimes, yes, it's an original creation by that musician. But very often it's an arrangement of a piece of mine - and I give people that credit to advance their career. How else is anyone in this industry going to help them advance? I don't believe in "Ghost Writers", i believe in crediting my collaborators. Just the way Stanley Myers - my mentor - credited me. And if you really want to know where I learned just enough about jazz voicings- it was from doing mock-ups for Stanley, who used to write a lot of jazz. Just listen to his score on "Insignificance". And in that movie it's pretty obvious who did what.
> But HeadShot, why so serious? What have I done to you? Do we know each other? What makes you call me a liar?



Mr. Zimmer -

The way you conduct yourself on this forum is most admirable. You are a class act in my book, Sir. We have never met, but if we ever do, I will happily purchase you a drink of your choice for a chance to sit and hear more of your stories. Thank you for your participation here.


----------



## givemenoughrope

Yea, Headshot. I can understand not liking a type of music or score. Sure. But we're all putting in elbow grease and there's a ton to be learned from everybody. I'm sure we'd all be interested in understanding how you made that trailer mockup or how HZ does half the stuff he does. Maybe something good will come from the thread...


----------



## Rctec

Mathieu A said:


> So do I assume you didn't compose this?



I forgot about this! This was written the day after the big Northridge Earthquake. Not a good day to get something done. The musicians kept running out of the studio, every time there was an aftershock...


----------



## Rctec

I wish I was as good as him:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Daugherty

He knows how to really use jazz harmony! Listen to his "Tales of Hemingway"....


----------



## Andrew_m

Hans sets the industry standard nowadays - so when you're working in the industry, who do you expect to be an inspiration to composers?

I do think it's foolish to call us clones, on the other hand. There are plenty of other inspirations and talented composers out there.


----------



## Hannes_F

Actually HeadShot unwittingly just complimented the talents of Rctec.
How often do we hear people cheer 'impossible' if they want to praise something while technically they know it to be possible. Now, this time it was meant literally and the compliment is just stronger. Case solved 

Still I would like to hear the Final Game mockup ...


----------



## Dave Connor

@HeadShot HZ's explanation shows he's not a rookie at Jazz but actually has a foundation in it working with a mentor. Isn't that obvious though listening to the music? It leaves that assumption or your assumption that he's lying. To chose the latter is a worse offense than what you're accusing of. He has now been through the unpleasantries of being accused publicly and defending himself publicly and now offering proof. Think of that! For anyone! To inflict that on someone when they have stellar credentials in their field is to risk what's occurred here including damaging your credibility as well - which you have. Why? What's the goal and why risk such a miserable experience with zero to base it on and even less to gain?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

This reminds me of that exchange in Keyboard magazine (RIP) in the '80s between some wanker and Danny Elfman. Wanker accused Elfman of being a cretin because he used orchestrators. I forget what Elfman's response was exactly, but it basically foreshadowed Jim Jeffries' response to Piers Morgan on Bill Maher last week - only in writing.


----------



## FriFlo

Rctec said:


> I'll dig up the demo... but please don't subscribe to the Masterclass. You won't get anything out of it. It's mainly about how not to piss people off by having the arrogance of accusing them of lying.


I would still like to hear that mockup ...


----------



## InLight-Tone

"Be what you are, and NOT what you is not. Zoes who do zis, is the happiest lot..." Mr Wizard


----------



## guydoingmusic

HeadShot said:


> Some musical styles requiert a huge knowledge and practice to be mastered, when others just need a good musical sense. Big band belongs to the first category.
> 
> Furthermore, the piece we are talking about is far to be a novice work. That's why I can only be skeptical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You did nothing to me, we don't know each other. My name is Samy Cheboub (I'm a 40 years french composer).
> As I said above, Big band is too complex to be mastered in a first attempt. Sorry I can't help thinking that.
> Once again, I don't prevent anyone to believe.


That's the worst excuse and cop-out (or whatever you want to call it) that I think I've ever heard. 

How about this... you put your money where your mouth is and post the session complete with all midi files to prove you are actually in 100% ownership and the creator of that mockup you posted to replace the music in "The Force Awakens" trailer. You remember the one you claimed you would post proof of... how long ago?? Also -- list out every library used to create this piece.


----------



## guydoingmusic




----------



## Dave Connor

@HeadShot A little context: One of the most successful and emulated composers in film history says, _I_ _certainly didn't know anything about Big Bands, _a statement of total honesty and humility reflecting no need whatsoever to maintain some sort of image to the public; then turns around and fabricates a scenario that reflects the total opposite character? It goes to my point that I don't think you're listening. Not to the music and not to the man. Big Band is a musical form that Hans, you and the rest of planet Earth have been hearing since we were in the womb. He hadn't been living in that instrumental form but living with those instruments forever and indeed had a background in Jazz voicings (which gave him a vital ingredient that you assumed he didn't have.) If you listen to how well he does everything else you realize (as any musician would) that this is an extremely talented musician who does well no matter what he tackles. Not a surprise at all.

Simply put, you did not have near enough information to assume anything. And everything you should know about his abilities should have tilted you the other way. If you would have simply asked him in the first place you could have had a civil discourse and even voiced your skepticism as to every step of the process. To which he would have gladly explained. No need for accusation.


----------



## Patrick de Caumette

Samy Cheboub, you are one arrogant 40 years old French composer.
I very much doubt that anything can be said that will change your mind.
But based on complaints that moderators are getting about your accusations, I would suggest that you tone down your arrogance.
To me, your comments reveal how little you know about jazz big band music.
You obviously like to make a lot of noise.
You made your impression, and it wasn't in good taste.
Maybe you should reflect on the fact that you may not be as qualified as you think you are, to make the assessments that you are making... but what is not acceptable are the accusations towards someone that everyone respects here.
Please read again the guidelines of this site, and hopefully tone down your posts.
Hans is a valued contributor here, and your accusations do not bode well for your future presence in our community


----------



## Daniel James

HeadShot said:


> *Shirley Walker*
> Shirley Anne Walker (née Rogers, April 10, 1945 – November 30, 2006) was an American film and television composer and conductor.
> 
> *Bruce Fowler*
> Bruce Lambourne Fowler (July 10, 1947)[1] is an American trombonist and composer.



You are putting way too much time and effort into something you don't care about mate. Let it go.

-DJ


----------



## Dave Connor

@HeadShot You must not realize that your _proof_ is confirming what HZ said not nullifying it. Beethoven sent his work off to copyists who would extract and copy the parts and produce or even engrave a new score (which would eventually get done in any case.) That's not changing the notes or arranging or anything - exactly same as Hans handing it off for transcription (i.e. put into score and parts.) Essentially your argument is that Hans Zimmer is a dishonest person though all we have evidence of in this thread is total honesty from the guy. You need to find another target. Try Trump or something.


----------



## kavinsky

Patrick de Caumette said:


> Samy Cheboub, you are one arrogant 40 years old French "composer"
> but what is not acceptable are the accusations towards someone that everyone respects here.


the level of hatred you see on this forum when it comes to politics or religion (HZ is a religion) is just rediculous
its unhealthy


----------



## tav.one

Dave Connor said:


> @HeadShot You need to find another target. Try Trump or something.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

You know, the reported posts to the moderators made realize what I should have realized right away without prompting. At first I thought it was sort of amusing in a train wreck way, but I was wrong. This BS is against the most important forum rule:

No personal attacks against another forum member.

It's no different whether it's Hans or anyone else. This must stop right now.

^ That's me speaking as a forum moderator, and this is a Public Cease and Desist Right Now Order.

And I'm not saying that this is just a warning and it's the end of it.


----------



## Dave Connor

kavinsky said:


> the level of hatred you see on this forum when it comes to politics or religion (HZ is a religion) is just rediculous
> its unhealthy


 I agree on the Politics side but that's everywhere on the net. In the case of HZ, it's not true in my case anyway. My observations are mainly musical. Basically the man is regularly accused of not doing his own work and now lying about it (that is hate right?) My point is that like all gifted composers he has his own language and just the same as those others, only they are capable of it. Brahms does not sound like Prokofiev who does not sound like Stravinsky who does not sound like Copland who does not sound like Zimmer. Young composers coming up do not write like Zimmer any more than Schoenberg's young students wrote like him. If you understand the enormous workload film composer's have you understand that they assemble teams - look at IMDB. Writing like Hans Zimmer or Thomas Newman or Alexandre Desplat isn't something anyone can do anymore than they can write like Mozart or Bob Dylan for that matter.


----------



## sourcefor

NoamL said:


> @Rctec "Jazz spells death at the box office." Yeah... I saw the recent last season of Poirot and the show no longer uses Christopher Gunning's wonderful saxophone theme?! A real pity.
> 
> @sourcefor Yes Walter Murphy is fantastic! Every act of Family Guy opens with a little 5-10 second sting on the main title theme, he's written _hundreds_ of them and they are all unique and interesting. They also cover a huge range of moods. I once just sat down with a DVD of a whole season and ripped the act intros and tried to transcribe them (it's useful to slow them down).
> 
> Check this out too:
> 
> 
> 
> This is seriously one of the most accomplished pieces of music I've ever heard on TV. Think about all the notes it has to hit. It has to match the action of the picture, it has to be funny, it has to be dangerous and thrilling, and it has to be deliberately dated. All at the same time.
> 
> Music like this, is a masterclass in itself because it is all in the notes. There's nothing stopping you from sitting down and transcribing it and starting to understand it technically. That's very different, I think, from all the sound design scores that have come out recently. For instance I really liked JJ's scores for Sicario and Arrival. But unless he gave a lecture or masterclass about his methods, how he created sounds etc. I wouldn't know where to start writing like that.



Yes and Yesss!! Agreed!!


----------



## sourcefor

NoamL said:


> When you only read as far as page 2 and post thinking this is going to be a discussion about Walter Murphy and jazz scoring
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is it with VIC lately.... y'all antsy for new libraries or something?


LOL..that was my intention (to learn more about jazzy style scoring and horn arrangements) but it somehow came to this!! All I want is some classes on this subject matter!


----------



## redbeard

Mr. HeadShot, there are people in this world with talents and abilities far beyond that which seems comprehensible to the common man, and alongside every single one of them, determined to expose the "ugly truth" is a sizable crowd of skeptics including rude and brash individuals such as yourself. They are skeptical because the limitations of their own mediocre abilities and narrow-mindedness coupled with an unhealthy dose of narcissistic personality disorder makes extraordinary human achievements fundamentally incomprehensible to them. Mediocrity is not something you can talk your way out of, nor is it something to be ashamed of, and it's never too late to apologize. Now that you have been taught a lesson in social conduct, perhaps we will have the pleasure of conversing with a slightly more pleasant and humble French commoner in the future. If not one can only hope that your contributions be sparse.

As far as Rctec goes, it's a testament to the fragility of brilliant minds that he would entertain the notion of proving his accomplishments to someone who shows him absolutely no respect to begin with. A true mastermind who walks among us peasants, eager to share his wisdom, showing us that at the heart of the world's arguably most successful film composer of all times, we find humility and class abound. One can only hope that his contributions be plentiful.


----------



## Christof

Funny, I was going through this thread with great interest (and my mouth wide open), but I can't find a single posting from headshot.
Maybe he's some kind of phantom, or he deleted all his posts.


----------



## synergy543

Hmmm....must've been FAKE news. I could've sworn there was a bunch of posts from someone named "Headshot" a few minutes ago.

Nothing to see folks, move along, move along...


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Christof said:


> Funny, I was going through this thread with great interest (and my mouth wide open), but I can't find a single posting from headshot.
> Maybe he's some kind of phantom, or he deleted all his posts.



I guess he was banned from the forum.


----------



## Christof

In this case it would be helpful if the moderators would drop a short line of explication and the reason why.
Just to avoid confusion for other members who are reading this thread with interest.


----------



## creativeforge

sourcefor said:


> OK let me rephrase...casue I think Hans has a unique gift for finding what works in the film and for coming up with new a different ideas. That is what i like most about him! And I do NOT want to get into another Hans Zimmer discussion..I just want to find some courses and/or videos on composing and arranging for the big band or possibly broadway style of music and not just the same re-hashed style in every course (sans Alan Mayrand's course). And I have taken many of these courses including Mike Verta's, Alain's and am currently enrolled in the Hans course. I LOVE to learn and want to see some courses in this different style is all Not to take away from anyone else!



Hans would probably say: "That's for you to create, go for it, make it happen, be your own self."


----------



## Svyato

all is about audacity and passion, without them, no new borning style


----------



## SymphonicSamples

Yeah the thread has shrunk somewhat from when I read it many hours ago  There's certainly a lot of clones of HZ's music out there, but from a small slice of his output which is what constantly gets drawn upon and borrowed, intern there's also many examples of John Williams cloned music out there which also is taken from a small slice of his most accessible output and borrows from it heavily and in general are poorly done. If I turn the radio on in the car and listen to a station with current music it's very rare it doesn't follow a typical chord progression we all know and have heard thousands of times over the years, but the magic is when simple ideas evolve from things that are familiar to us in a unique way and intern how they develop and grow over time. The things about composers (past or present) I admire which make them special simple can't be cloned, their musical soul unique to their entire life's path


----------



## Markus S




----------



## jononotbono

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I guess he was banned from the forum.



Wondering why he was banned? His Star War re-write was amazing (in terms of Virtual Instrument usage)! That kind of talent shouldn't be banned from here. Shame.

Edit... I haven't read the whole thread yet though! I'll put the kettle on. It's gonna be a long one! Haha!


----------



## J-M

jononotbono said:


> Wondering why he was banned? His Star War re-write was amazing (in terms of Virtual Instrument usage)! That kind of talent shouldn't be banned from here. Shame.
> 
> Edit... I haven't read the whole thread yet though! I'll put the kettle on. It's gonna be a long one! Haha!



I just clicked the thread out of interest and well...let me tell you, what happened here wasn't pretty. :D


----------



## Chris Hurst

Lots of talent, but not so good at dealing with people by the looks, which is almost as important in this business!

Shame he's been banned as his programming skills were extraordinary in that Star Wars mockup he did, but you can't keep behaving that way towards someone.

Also, fair play to Hans for sticking with this thread, he could have walked away really early into it!


----------



## creativeforge

Thank you for the suggestion, Hans... 

http://site-323590.bcvp0rtal.com/de...l-daugherty-tales-of-hemingway?autoStart=true


----------



## jononotbono

MrLinssi said:


> I just clicked the thread out of interest and well...let me tell you, what happened here wasn't pretty. :D



Well, ok, I shouldn't have written anything before reading the whole thread. Silly me. 

This, however, is a legendary post and in tribute to the author I'm off to buy the Mod Squad Masterclass and fry my brain.



mverta said:


> I started out writing Big Band charts and pop tunes in the synth-tastic 80's. So I have plenty of thoughts about this piece.
> 
> But I'm still hung up the part where you said:
> 
> Hans said he wrote and orchestrated it all by himself, so _yes, you're calling him a liar_. Good people don't accuse others of lying without proof (taught my little boy this one early). So let's see your proof. You said you don't care about the presumption of innocence; that you don't care about people slandering others without cause. Well, considering you're a guy who has sex with animals, I'd say that's a risky position. You either have sex with animals or I'm King of the World and my father is Santa Claus. You can say that you don't, but "I don't care." What; you never lie? All you have to do is prove that you don't and I'll apologize. Also, I get to determine what _proof _is. See, this is no kind of world to live in.
> 
> Perhaps you want to issue an apology for baseless slandering of one of the board and industry's most respected members. That, or make with the proof stat. I'd recommend the former.
> 
> Do that, and I'm happy to give you my take on this killer piece.


----------



## Syneast

I wouldn't say Zimmer clone as much as Batman Begins clone or Transformers clone. People have come to equate movie music like that with "epic", and they like it.

Zimmer does other types of scores too, you know. As someone mentioned, scores like The Simpsons, Kung Fu Panda etc. are made in a totally different style, because the Batman Begins style would not fit those films.


----------



## jononotbono

Syneast said:


> Zimmer does other types of scores too, you know. As someone mentioned, scores like The Simpsons, Kung Fu Panda etc. are made in a totally different style, because the Batman Begins style would not fit those films.



I never understand why people think HZ writes one style of music. Ridiculous. It's like they don't have any ears.


----------



## ghostnote

I'm going to ignore this recent episode of melrose control and get back ontopic:

The very definition of minimalism implies that possibilities are shrinking. In a world that tries to reinvent itself constantly minimalism seems to trump. The easier, less complicated way gets considered as cooler and en vouge. 

Why don't they build gothic churches anymore? They are beautiful!


----------



## Syneast

jononotbono said:


> I never understand why people think HZ writes one style of music. Ridiculous. It's like they don't have any ears.


Yeah. So if you really want to sound like Zimmer, why don't you go write a piece of music that sounds like the score for Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron, for instance? Bet you've never done that now, have you? *asking no one in particular*


----------



## Parsifal666

There are a lot of Zimmer clones, but I hear it mostly in superhero films. I really loved the score to Winter Soldier, but it was too obvious the Hans bug was in Henry for a lot of it. To be fair, from what I hear the studios are pushing for that, and the score comes off as a good one anyway imo. It does tend to lump in with too many others in the genre, however.

Then again, if I want less Zimmer I can always listen to Silvestri's truly excellent First Avenger score.


----------



## Parsifal666

Syneast said:


> Yeah. So if you really want to sound like Zimmer, why don't you go write a piece of music that sounds like the score for Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron, for instance? Bet you've never done that now, have you? *asking no one in particular*



The Lion King.


----------



## FriFlo

If headshot was banned, that was a wrong decision. If he deleted all of his posts by himself, I don't like it either. He should have edited his posts in a less offensive way instead. I think he went a bit to far with his accusations, but on the other hand I am a fan of honesty and the fact it is HZ would not change that.
People are probably going to crucify me for that, but ... hey! Having such brilliant orchestrators as Walker and Fowler on the project, I honestly find it hard to believe they would just write down exactly what the midi track dictates! What kind of samples were used? Only single instruments or some ensemble patches as well? And even if there was no significant change in the orchestration, it still requires a lot of knowledge to write phrasing and exact voicing up to the standard of that production.
Only to repeat myself: The work those people do is not trivial, so I would hope for a little respect for them as well. If I had such accomplished people orchestrating my mockup or improving my scores I would sure as hell let them do their work! And this is not an attempt to claim "composer X has been singing some tunes on a tape and the orchestrators did the real composing job!" It is just to say their jobs should not be underestimated.


----------



## Phryq

I'm not a Zimmer Clone, I wrote so on the first page of my website,

http://albertmckay.com/


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## tav.one

Phryq said:


> I'm not a Zimmer Clone, I wrote so on the first page of my website,
> 
> http://albertmckay.com/



Wow! your website is something...
Haven't seen anything like this since a very long time.


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## Sebastianmu

itstav said:


> Wow! your website is something...
> Haven't seen anything like this since a very long time.


It's called sea punk.


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