# Help me decide - Logic vs. Cubase



## danstein (Dec 1, 2022)

Ok, here's my situation -

I have been writing/recording/producing for many years, mainly in the jazz/r&b/singer-songwriter space. I am a long-time Pro Tools user, and for the last 10 years or so I've been using Ableton Live as my primary DAW for composing. I also have some classical and conservatory training and have dabbled in classical/orchestral composition over the years.

Now I'm interesting in doing more orchestral and film-score writing. Neither Ableton nor Pro Tools seems best-suited for this particular type of work. I'm solidly a Mac guy, and I am looking at either Logic or Cubase, which seem to be the top choices for film composers on Mac.

If anyone can run down the relative pros and cons of both packages, I'd love to be able to make a better-informed decision. I am currently trying out a demo version of Cubase, but Logic doesn't offer a demo so I have to gather what info I can before plunking down more cash.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## gamma-ut (Dec 1, 2022)

That is a really tough call. It's going to come down to how you click with either (which obviously is a problem with a lack of demo for Logic). But by the same token, you can't go far wrong with either: whatever choice you make will be more or less "right", subject to the inevitable niggles anyone has with the arcane choices sometimes made by the developers.

Logic has made additions that make it resemble Live a bit more – so if you use Session View a lot, that may be a consideration (though it's not much help in orchestral or general stuff that needs to be through-composed).


----------



## Tim_Wells (Dec 1, 2022)

Bottom line: either one is excellent. 

I used Logic a LONG-TIME AGO. So, I can't give you a current pros and cons list. I'm sure someone here can. I know Logic comes with pretty nice selection of bread and better sounds. But in the long run, you're probably going to want something better. Cubase has some nice synths and other goodies. 

I respect what you're saying about Macs. But if one day you did decide you needed to use a PC (happens more often than you might think), Cubase would give you that option and all your projects would transfer.


----------



## FWB (Dec 1, 2022)

> That is a really tough call. It's going to come down to how you click with either *(which obviously is a problem with a lack of demo for Logic).*


Wrong  - you can demo Logic- here is the link: https://www.apple.com/logic-pro/trial/


----------



## danstein (Dec 1, 2022)

Thanks for the replies so far! As it turns out, Logic DOES have a 90-day free trial - downloading right now! So I will be able to get some hands-on time with both, which should help me figure out which one clicks with me better initially.

Still looking for anyone else's input on relative benefits of either platform. As Tim_Wells said, Cubase's cross-platform ability is a plus, even if I have no particular plans to put a PC in my studio at the moment. It looks to me like Cubase's integration with Dorico is a strong selling point.

I will say that built-in sounds/fx are not much of a consideration for either platform. I have terabytes of samples, softsynths, and VIs already, so I'm more interested in workflow differences, or technical abilities like better export features, etc. Really more interested in anything specific to music-to-picture, since in terms of general music production I feel like I'm already pretty well covered between PT and Live.


----------



## danstein (Dec 1, 2022)

FWB said:


> Wrong  - you can demo Logic- here is the link: https://www.apple.com/logic-pro/trial/


Thanks, FWB! Had just found that link 2 minutes before you posted!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 1, 2022)

Both have trials, both are excellent - the top two DAWs for this type of music many would concur. They are both used by many people in the industry that are writing a lot of music on crazy deadlines - aka their DAW needs to work properly. You can't go wrong with either (or get both - I go back and forth between them depending on my mood).


----------



## IFM (Dec 1, 2022)

It's as with a lot of different things...workflow. Both will get you to where you need to go. I use both regularly but tend to lean on Cubase more these days. My last album was about 50/50 because of where specific projects came from.

EDIT:
P.S. Cubase 12 is rock solid on my Mac Studio. Logic (the newest version) I've had more issues with.


----------



## Tom_D (Dec 1, 2022)

I'm a Logic Pro X to Cubase 11 convert (have used Cubase 11 for about a year now). 

I also used to be a solid mac guy, but built a PC to run Cubase (I prefer the PC so far) - still have a Mac Mini M1 with Logic X as well

I like Cubase better for the following reasons...

*Controller Lanes* in the Key Editor (Piano Roll in Logic X speak) - let's you see multiple MIDI CCs at once rather than toggling between them. Plus you can make presets for certain combinations of CCs / velocity, etc.
*Generic Remote* for MIDI control over lots of parameters (I use a touchscreen controller)
****EXPORTING OPTIONS**** - unless Logic X has changed, the exporting options are leagues ahead in Cubase, especially if you need to export a number of STEMs for each cue
*Surround-sound support* - I don't actually work in surround, but I have experimented with the routing in both Logic X and Cubase 11, and Cubase 11 is miles easier to work work for routing and exporting
*Visibility Agents* - I always wanted a better way to filter the tracks in Logic X - this is very easy in Cubase. Plus you can have a set of visibility presets for the project window, AND a separate set for the mixer window. e.g. in the mixer window I typically have 5 presets (VE pro audio returns, instruments loaded in Cubase, Mix STEMs, Reverbs, Delivery STEMs)
*Search Function* - Ctrl+F in Cubase lets you search for a track in your project
*Multiple Marker Tracks* - I can have 2 marker tracks open in the project window at once, and dedicate different info to each one (although only one of the two tracks can be "active" at a time, you can still see both at once)
*Macros and the Logical Editor / Project Logical Editor* - create all sorts of combinations of processes to perform multiple tasks with a single button

Aesthetically, I think Logic X looks better, and is well suited to projects that aren't too complex (in my opinion), but once you get big templates and the need to export many STEMs, the visibility agents and export options make it much easier to navigate in Cubase

Other reasons you might use Logic X

Designed by Apple, so stability on Mac *may*(???) be better
You like the Logic X sampler / exs24 (personally I do like this sampler and wish there was a built-in equivalent for Cubase - it loads fast, the browser is easy and quick to navigate, and the fact that it is an integral part of Logic X makes it pretty stable) Cubase has a sampler track but it is only able to load a single sample at a time, and is comparatively limited relative to Logic's sampler. 

Best,

T


----------



## Astronaut FX (Dec 1, 2022)

Depending on how you work, the kind of work you do, and your expertise with percussion, Logic’s Drummer feature can be quite compelling.


----------



## X-Bassist (Dec 1, 2022)

Every year I look at moving from Pro Tools to Logic or Cubase (also on mac) even went as far as buying Cubase to make the transition.

But logic is far too stripped down compared to Pro Tools, reminds me of using Movie editor after using Premiere or FCPX, few options and settings and an overly simplified timeline. I sure it works great for those starting out or those that like simplicity, but after PT it seems super limited in how you can work.

Cubase has much more to it, but it’s not intuitive, so you’ll have to take some time to learn where everything is, and it still doesn’t have all the options PT does. But for Midi it does have things PT doesn’t (like expression maps). For me I keep coming across basic functions in the timeline, options, or shortcuts that I use regularly that have no match in Cubase. And yes, I research and check everytime. But hopefully some version will change this soon, since many things are just options/settings that are missing.

But once PT Studio added track folders, Surround Tracks to 7.1.2 (no ultimate needed anymore) and other options I’d been waiting for, I switched back. For me there are too many shortcuts and options I use in PT, and I love the way it’s laid out. For me it’s the most straightforward to use without any serious limitations, esp after adding VEPro, which seriously expanded it’s capability with instrument count and Kontakt work.


----------



## danstein (Dec 1, 2022)

Great info so far - thanks and keep it coming!

Tom_D - that's exactly the kind of input I'm looking for. You make a strong case for Cubase, esp as a former Logic user. I have to say my initial bias is toward Logic since it is "Mac native" so to speak, but I'm glad to hear that Cubase 12 is running solidly for you. I agree that aesthetically I prefer the look of Logic, but that's not a deal-breaker for me.

X-Bassist - don't get me wrong, I started on Pro Tools back when it was still called Sound Designer! Love it, it is absolutely home for me and as far as editing and mixing, that's my go-to. However, the MIDI and VI support still doesn't quite cut it for me in terms of serious, large-scale VI-based work. I wish it did, I'd love for PT to be my one-stop-shop for a DAW, but for MIDI-based composing it's just not doing it for me.


----------



## Tom_D (Dec 1, 2022)

danstein said:


> Great info so far - thanks and keep it coming!
> 
> Tom_D - that's exactly the kind of input I'm looking for. You make a strong case for Cubase, esp as a former Logic user. I have to say my initial bias is toward Logic since it is "Mac native" so to speak, but I'm glad to hear that Cubase 12 is running solidly for you. I agree that aesthetically I prefer the look of Logic, but that's not a deal-breaker for me.


Just to clarify - I'm using Cubase 11 on an PC right now (not mac) - can't comment on version 12

Also, track folders in Cubase are another plus for me. You can even have nested folders (e.g. one main folder for "Strings", and then subfolders for all your "vln 1" "Vln 2" etc. string patches. It works for me.

I know others use and like expression maps - I never do, but that's just my own workflow at the moment.


----------



## gtrwll (Dec 1, 2022)

Dunno if it’s of any relevance to you, but one thing to consider is that if sometime along the way you decide to switch to another DAW, Steinberg allows you to sell your Cubase license while Logic is forever yours.


----------



## Malaryjoe (Dec 1, 2022)

With Protools, Ableton and the Logic demo, I think you’ll be able to figure out if film scoring is something you’re actually interested in before you make any more significant investments in stuff. You may find that it’s a drag if you’re used to songwriting. Or you may find that it’s the thing you’ve been looking for your whole life. But it’s different.


----------



## danstein (Dec 1, 2022)

Tom_D - thanks for the correction and sorry for not reading in better detail. (Multitasking makes me stupider than I really am)

gtrwil - good point to consider, thanks

Another area of interest for me is notation and how well the respective platforms handle it. In fact, I know that Cubase has an integration with Dorico, so that's another plus in it's favor. As I recall, Logic did have some built-in notation support but the last time I looked into that was prob 12 years ago. I just installed a demo version, so I guess I can investigate for myself, but I'd love real-world use reports from both sides, particularly Logic.


----------



## danstein (Dec 1, 2022)

@Malaryjoe - fair point, but I've done enough film-scoring here and there over the years to know it's an area I'm willing to invest both time and some $$ into.

I have both the Cubase 12 and Logic whatever demos installed now, so I can absolutely check them out head-to-head for myself. But the Cubase demo is only 30 days (Logic is 90, very generous) and I know that with Cubase in particular there's a learning curve. This isn't my full-time job, so I have limited hours over the next month to compare the two, and any advice or thoughts from poeple who know them well is much appreciated!


----------



## Wunderhorn (Dec 1, 2022)

I used them both, then I discovered Studio One and I am so glad I did.


----------



## Tom_D (Dec 1, 2022)

danstein said:


> Another area of interest for me is notation and how well the respective platforms handle it. In fact, I know that Cubase has an integration with Dorico, so that's another plus in it's favor. As I recall, Logic did have some built-in notation support but the last time I looked into that was prob 12 years ago.


I personally don't really care for the notation aspects of any DAW that I have tried (I have not used Dorico, but the fact that it is within the Steinberg universe may make it a good match with Cubase). I have always used a dedicated notation software for printed music (Finale is my preference)

In other words, if print music is a priority, I personally would look elsewhere. If you are purely looking at MIDI composition and mixing/production, then Logic X and Cubase are both strong contenders.


----------



## FWB (Dec 1, 2022)

If I were you I would download demo versions of both and try them out for yourself. Other peoples experiences are r really fine to hear, but these experiences might not cover all the functions you might need or wish for your workflow - and can even be flawed  ... (no offence)



> Also, track folders in Cubase are another plus for me. You can even have nested folders (e.g. one main folder for "Strings", and then subfolders for all your "vln 1" "Vln 2" etc. string patches. It works for me.


This indicates that Logic does not have track folders. Logic has both track folders - even two different kinds - and you can nest other track folders within these folders...


----------



## zolhof (Dec 1, 2022)

Since you are on Mac, have a look at Digital Performer as well (apologies in advance haha), it's a pretty magical DAW for composers, with some very unique and badass features cough chunks cough. A few notable users:



Spoiler



Thomas Newman
Randy Newman
Danny Elfman
Marco Beltrami
Elliot Goldenthal
Theodore Shapiro
Michael Giacchino
Howard Shore
John Debney
Ed Shearmur
Trevor Rabin
Elia Cmiral
John Corigliano
Jerry Goldsmith (RIP)
Basil Poledoris (RIP)
Don Davis
Alan Menkin
John Ottman
Austin Wintory
Bear McCreary
Mark Watters
Gordy Haab
Conrad Pope
Joey Newman
Penka Kouneva
Brian Ralston
Kevin Kliesch
Alexandre Desplat
Dario Marinelli
Roque Banos
Paul Leonard-Morgan
Robert Fok
Michael Patti
Kubilay Uner
Miriam Cutler



The list may be a bit outdated, but it's cool to nerd out a little.


----------



## danstein (Dec 1, 2022)

Tom_D said:


> I personally don't really care for the notation aspects of any DAW that I have tried (I have not used Dorico, but the fact that it is within the Steinberg universe may make it a good match with Cubase). I have always used a dedicated notation software for printed music (Finale is my preference)
> 
> In other words, if print music is a priority, I personally would look elsewhere. If you are purely looking at MIDI composition and mixing/production, then Logic X and Cubase are both strong contenders.


Notation is not a priority in-and-of itself, just another consideration.

I did a lot of big-band writing and arranging years ago, when Finale was the only choice for serious notation work. I got fairly good with it, to the point where I was doing copyist work for hire for a while. I always hated it, and switched to Sibelius when my hard-core notation needs grew less hard-core.

I haven't had much need for chart-writing for the last few years, and Sibelius still works fine for what I need it for. I'm curious about the iPad notation world, and I know Dorico has an iPad integration so yet another plus for Cubase, I guess. Something else to explore.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Dec 1, 2022)

@danstein this topic has been discussed forever on this site, I suggest you spend a few hours or days searching and reading what can be found in this forum, you will literally find thousands of posts on this topic covering many different complexities on the topic. The truth is neither DAW can be singled at as supreme...you will find advocates on both sides, both with compelling arguments. And demo as much as you can of course..and as you come up with questions...search the site and look for the topics that have probably already been covered here ad infinitum. Also usually this conversation will become heated as people have strong emotions regarding which DAW is their preference.

Don't overlook Digital Performer also.

I basically ended up owning them all, and for now I'm using DP. They all have pros and cons though and I would have to write a series of lengthy posts to even begin to explain the details of those observations, which I am not going to do...

I will only say this.. Cubase, LogicPro and Digital Performer are, IMHO, the best three DAW's for doing large template orchestral mock up work. They are all three industrial grade DAW's and there are top level pros producing top level work of this nature on all three of them. So pick your poison.

Good luck.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 1, 2022)

I have used both for many years, my opinion is to go all-in with Logic. It's a DAW that's designed and optimized for a Mac, I personally love it. You may have mentioned it already, but what are your Mac specs?


----------



## danstein (Dec 1, 2022)

zolhof said:


> Since you are on Mac, have a look at Digital Performer as well (apologies in advance haha), it's a pretty magical DAW for composers, with some very unique and badass features cough chunks cough. A few notable users:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, _some_ of them can write 

I'm aware of DP. I used OpCode Studio back in the day, which I think was the original app that evolved into DP - that's pretty good DNA in it's code, for sure. Great, another DAW to consider.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Dec 1, 2022)

no, opcode was called Studio Vision and DP was made by Mark of the Unicorn, two seperate companies and two seperate products...completely. I used to use Vision also back in the day and loved it. RIP. But yes, DP has been around that long too, as have Cubase and Logic.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Dec 1, 2022)

Ok I lied I still say a few more things...

LogicPro is only $199 and so far they haven't ever charged an upgrade fee. That is pretty compelling to just buy it and have it on hand. Start there for that reason if nothing else. You can always use it to go competitive upgrades to the other DAW's later in some cases.

One downside of LogicPro is that they require you to be pretty up to date with MacOS. Latest version of LogicPro requires Monterey or newer and probably the next version of LogicPro will require Ventura, etc.. But...its practically free as long as you keep up with Mac hardware and OS updates. it is a very powerful DAW in its own right.


----------



## PopcornMan (Dec 1, 2022)

Logic is cheaper and I find it to be much more straightforward than Cubase. Both are great though. I find that Logic’s simplicity helps me focus more on composing rather than getting into the technical aspects. I think that Cubase has a heavier leaning towards audio engineers than Logic does, although Cubase is still wonderful for composition.


----------



## danstein (Dec 1, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I have used both for many years, my opinion is to go all-in with Logic. It's a DAW that's designed and optimized for a Mac, I personally love it. You may have mentioned it already, but what are your Mac specs?


My initial bias was toward Logic for that very reason. However, I am seeing some compelling arguments for Cubase. Glad I can actually demo them both.

I didn't mention my Mac specs. Currently I have an M1Pro 14" MacBook Pro, 8-core, 16 GB of RAM. It's not my ideal computer and very wimpy in the RAM department for orchestral writing purposes, I know. It'll probably be replaced by a Mac Studio with a decent amount of RAM sometime next year.


----------



## danstein (Dec 1, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> no, opcode was called Studio Vision and DP was made by Mark of the Unicorn, two seperate companies and two seperate products...completely. I used to use Vision also back in the day and loved it. RIP. But yes, DP has been around that long too, as have Cubase and Logic.


That's right, Studio Vision. And yes, now you are jogging my (rusty) memory - OpCode was bought by Gibson and killed off. What a shame, that was a great program. Wasn't it the first to actually integrate digital audio into a MIDI sequencer?


----------



## Dewdman42 (Dec 1, 2022)

I don't remember who was first to add digital audio, someone else here will probably know the answer to that.


----------



## kennmichael (Dec 1, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> I don't remember who was first to add digital audio, someone else here will probably know the answer to that.


Studio Vision was first, then Digital Performer. Both using Digidesign's audio hardware.


----------



## Cdnalsi (Dec 1, 2022)

Another vote for Logic here. The performance on Apple Silicon is something I have never experienced in my decades of studio work. Just unreal.


----------



## danstein (Dec 1, 2022)

kennmichael said:


> Studio Vision was first, then Digital Performer. Both using Digidesign's audio hardware.


Oh, yes - I had a Mac IIci with a Digidesign Audiomedia card in it. I could run Sound Designer and Sample Cell on that thing.


----------



## Tom_D (Dec 1, 2022)

FWB said:


> If I were you I would download demo versions of both and try them out for yourself. Other peoples experiences are r really fine to hear, but these experiences might not cover all the functions you might need or wish for your workflow - and can even be flawed  ... (no offence)
> 
> 
> This indicates that Logic does not have track folders. Logic has both track folders - even two different kinds - and you can nest other track folders within these folders...


Ah I didn't realize you could do this. It's been a while since I've used it for anything with a larger template. I wonder if there is a difference between the Track Folders and the Track stacks. Can you nest track stacks? (e.g. folder stacks)?


----------



## Dewdman42 (Dec 1, 2022)

LogicPro can only nest two levels deep FYI, and actually it used to be possible to do more with some tricky unsupported work arounds, but those work arounds don't actually work in the updated version that now supposedly supports two levels deep. So you get two levels deep and that's it. There is no doubt that LogicPro is more restricted then other daws in this regard. Cubase and DP have MUCH better track management features then LogicPro does..that is definitely one of the strikes in favor of Cubase or DP. You Can quickly select which tracks are visible and nest all the tracks to your heart's content. Not so much with LogicPro. LogicPro does provide the summing track stacks which might be useful in some cases, but I don't find them that useful for orchestral work most of the time, but could be when using seperate tracks per articulation.


----------



## onnomusic (Dec 1, 2022)

danstein said:


> My initial bias was toward Logic for that very reason. However, I am seeing some compelling arguments for Cubase. Glad I can actually demo them both.
> 
> I didn't mention my Mac specs. Currently I have an M1Pro 14" MacBook Pro, 8-core, 16 GB of RAM. It's not my ideal computer and very wimpy in the RAM department for orchestral writing purposes, I know. It'll probably be replaced by a Mac Studio with a decent amount of RAM sometime next year.


Since you're on an M1, I find that the performance is excellent and its easier to run a combi of rosetta and native plugins in logic (with logic running natively)


----------



## Jett Hitt (Dec 1, 2022)

Another vote for Logic. I used to use Cubase, but I gave up after version 10.5. The crashing was unreal. Logic has always been rock solid for me, and you just can't argue with the price. Cubase, by comparison, is pretty expensive to own and maintain. Logic is made for the Mac by the people who make the Mac.


----------



## Tom_D (Dec 1, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> I used to use Cubase, but I gave up after version 10.5. The crashing was unreal.


I worried a lot about this when I first switched - I read a lot about crashes with Cubase. So far it has been pretty stable for me (PC windows 10 with ASUS motherboard and intel i7 11th gen CPU)

Maybe I got lucky? (*knocks on wood*) I'm also using RME interfaces with Cubase for whatever that is worth.

I also fiddled with Cubase on my Mac M1 and it didn't seem as stable as the PC build seemed to be; that's my perception anyway. I'm sure it has changed since then with newer operating systems, Cubase versions, etc.



> Logic has always been rock solid for me, and you just can't argue with the price...Logic is made for the Mac by the people who make the Mac.


Can't argue with that.


----------



## Jett Hitt (Dec 1, 2022)

Tom_D said:


> I worried a lot about this when I first switched - I read a lot about crashes with Cubase. So far it has been pretty stable for me (PC windows 10 with ASUS motherboard and intel i7 11th gen CPU)
> 
> Maybe I got lucky? (*knocks on wood*) I'm also using RME interfaces with Cubase for whatever that is worth.
> 
> I also fiddled with Cubase on my Mac M1 and it didn't seem as stable as the PC build seemed to be; that's my perception anyway. I'm sure it has changed since then with newer operating systems, Cubase versions, etc.


My perception has always been that Cubase was more stable on the PC, but I don't know that from experience. For what it is worth, I hear great things about Cubase 12. I had thought I might switch back if Dorico was going to be integrated, but that doesn't seem to be the case. The cost for me to just upgrade to 12 is $199--the same price as buying Logic years ago. It's hard to get excited about that.


----------



## Emanuel Fróes (Dec 1, 2022)

danstein said:


> Ok, here's my situation -
> 
> I have been writing/recording/producing for many years, mainly in the jazz/r&b/singer-songwriter space. I am a long-time Pro Tools user, and for the last 10 years or so I've been using Ableton Live as my primary DAW for composing. I also have some classical and conservatory training and have dabbled in classical/orchestral composition over the years.
> 
> ...


to give a simple answer: it is more if you tend to Microsoft or Apple thought patterns. Do you want to compose in a mac studio ultra, if you can? 
How important is the score editor for you? A lot of things.

What i can say for sure, is that many cubase users are ignorant of qhat Logic can do. I say this because they look to be amazed with things in CUbase as they were "tricks", while Logic just do it. When Logic users hype some feature of Logic, i think they are often highlighting something CUbase can´t do, like the Ipad remote thing. HOwever, CUbase has apparently some pros in midi, that i am also curious about to know if it is true. BEfore i write extensively, I try to find a video of a guy who is super professional and switched many times from day to day, and says why for 40 minutes.


*YOu may find funny, but Logic Pro looks very inteliggent for me, just from the moment i look into the screen. Cubase looked dumb for me. This was my very first impression years ago. The rest needs an extensive objetive comparation. *

A key pro of Cubase (but i am not user): the macros, the attention to midi details . Chord tracks do not impress me, but is a key feature.
A key pro of Logic pro : transform sets, many good instruments from start (Alchemy/Sampler), the new stacking feature and how easy it makes for template blocks. YOu can load your whole ethnic orchestra in your synth project so easy. Noy you can link to Ableton.

It. is harrd to tell, but ma ny times i got the impression that Cubase users were googling for things i find just funnny, like "how is this a problem for him" haha

I trust more Apple´s goals as a company, even if it goes backwads from time to time. They want direct interaction between your brain and the device. As extension of your hands. Maybe they learned this from the Arnold Gehlen, philosopher who happened to be from the nazi party, but that made a very good definition of technology in some article of his, in my opnion. It was claled the Era of Technology or something like this.


Another tip: check all they updates. CHeck their developement. See who is working hard to solve the biggest problems. This can´t be a mistake to regret.


----------



## Malaryjoe (Dec 1, 2022)

Emanuel Fróes said:


> to give a simple answer: it is more if you tend to Microsoft or Apple thought patterns. Do you want to compose in a mac studio ultra, if you can?
> How important is the score editor for you? A lot of things.
> 
> What i can say for sure, is that many cubase users are ignorant of qhat Logic can do. I say this because they look to be amazed with things in CUbase as they were "tricks", while Logic just do it. HOwever, CUbase has some pros. BEfore i write extensively, I try to find a video of a guy who is super professional and switched many times from day to day, and says why for 40 minutes.


In case you haven‘t figured it out yet, this is a guy who’s been playing guitar for forty years asking if his next guitar should be a Fender or a Gibson. He already knows everything he needs to know.


----------



## gyprock (Dec 1, 2022)

Also look at which DAWs have 3rd party pre-configured and routed orchestral templates. I’ve seen more of these for Logic than Cubase. The Spitfire one for BBCSO could be a good starting point for Logic and there would be some good ones around for Cubase as well.


----------



## robgb (Dec 1, 2022)

Of the two, I'd go with Cubase. But personally, I prefer Reaper.


----------



## Malaryjoe (Dec 1, 2022)

robgb said:


> Of the two, I'd go with Cubase. But personally, I prefer Reaper.


The cool film composers are going dawless.


----------



## ZeroZero (Dec 1, 2022)

I don’t do logic. People say that Cubase’s. Key editor is deeper and more powerful. You will be spending a lot of time in the key editor. Z


----------



## danstein (Dec 1, 2022)

Malaryjoe said:


> In case you haven‘t figured it out yet, this is a guy who’s been playing guitar for forty years asking if his next guitar should be a Fender or a Gibson. He already knows everything he needs to know.


I’m a guy whose been playing Fenders for 40 years. I’m asking whether my next axe should be a Gibson or an Ibanez, and why people prefer one or the other


----------



## blinkofani (Dec 1, 2022)

If I were you I’d take the full 30 days to try out Cubase and then try Logic since it’s 90-days. Both need a lot of time just to scratch the surface. They’re both deep apps. 

If you’re like me, it won’t be much about what feature one has over the other but more how you work in them. Cubase is more of a click fest. It still doesn’t have a multi-tool(they improved a bit recently but still…) it still doesn’t go fullscreen, you can’t just scroll left to right the lower zone mixer with a trackpad, you have to reach for the scrolling bar at the bottom. Which all scroll bars are 2 pixels wide and hard to grab. When you want to start the app, you can’t, like Logic, right-cilck the dock icon and choose the project you want to open(you may decide on the 10,20 or 30 last opened projects depending on your system prefs). Cubase doesn’t have a feature like Logic and PT where the opened plugin window updates when you change tracks. When i was using Cubase, I always had the feeling of being in a hot full-featured sport car with 5 steering wheels but not one in front of me!!

In both cases, you’ll need to approach them with leaving your PT habits behind. Logic is more closely related to PT in the way it works(multi-tool and a bit Mac-centric) but both Cubase and Logic are from german companies while PT is north american. And it shows in different areas. Not a plus or minus, just different thinking.

Don’t get me wrong, Cubase is a monster app with loads of great features but from my experience, a lot of them are a bit half-baked. Under Apple, Logic have had less new features than Cubase in the same period of time but i find that when it comes out, they’re well thought-out and work as advertised. And don’t think because Logic is only 200$(depending where you live) that it’s not a deep program. Back in the days of Logic and Cubase costing 1000$, they both had the reputation of being very deep. Apple didn’t remove anything of importance since then.

But only you will be able to decide if this and that is of any importance. Take the first 30 days full on with Cubase. If it clicks(no pun intended) with you, you’ll have a great tool to compose.


----------



## danstein (Dec 1, 2022)

Thanks everybody so far! Lots of good info on both sides of the equation here. I think blinkofani's advice makes sense, I'll probably try to focus on Cubase for the next month, Logic following that. I know it's still scratching the surface but it should give me a sense for which one works better for me. Also, some of the points people have made above will guide me in looking for the particular strengths or weaknesses of each. Coming into this thread I was leaning toward Logic, partway through I was tilting Cubase, now I have no frickin' idea. Guess I'll have to do my own work now.


----------



## musicalweather (Dec 1, 2022)

I'll still pipe in... What frustrated me about using Logic for orchestral compositions with many instrument tracks is that I had to do this ridiculous setup to get it to work with VE Pro (in the Environments window, setting up multi-instruments and transformers). It seemed such a pain compared to other DAWs that simply handle it without you having to do anything extra. 

I've also got Cubase. It's packed -- some would say _overstuffed_ -- with features, and I find the GUI pretty cluttered. It has some clever midi editing features. I haven't used it that much but found it a bit unstable on Mac.

I'm a long time user of DP. It's not as snazzy looking as other DAWs, and it certainly doesn't offer as many bells and whistles as Cubase. But it is excellent for film scoring (love the chunks!) and has superb midi editing.

Have fun trying things out!


----------



## kennmichael (Dec 1, 2022)

danstein said:


> Oh, yes - I had a Mac IIci with a Digidesign Audiomedia card in it. I could run Sound Designer and Sample Cell on that thing.


Ah Sample Cell 🥰


----------



## HCMarkus (Dec 1, 2022)

I think DanStein might find DP's approach is more like Pro Tools than the other DAWs under consideration. DP has a free demo, too.


----------



## Vik (Dec 1, 2022)

If you, after having searched for and read other threads with Logic and Cubase in the thread title still are confused, the best tip I can give you is to figure out how self-explanatory you want your future DAW to be. I have both, and I've always found Logic to be easier to learn than Cubase and Dorico: better help functions, more mouse friendly and more contextual menus when you need them.


----------



## JyTy (Dec 2, 2022)

Wunderhorn said:


> I used them both, then I discovered Studio One and I am so glad I did.


I second that. I used Logic for a long time and whenever I switch back I miss the functionality other daws offer, like multi cc lanes for instance. And Midi editing is just way better in Cubase or Studio One, especially when editing multiple midi tracks.

Cubase is overly complicated, but then again very powerful and customisable and comes packed with features and plugins!

Studio One has incredible and powerful features that get the least in the way of me making music. Feels like their team knows the little pains the other DAWs have and are just making everything better. So try to demo Studio One as well, you might not regret it.


----------



## Tronam (Dec 2, 2022)

Threads like these help explain why so many of us end up owning multiple DAWs.


----------



## Eddie Thoneick (Dec 2, 2022)

I've been on Cubase since 1993. Always loved the workflow. I think it's a matter of taste. In the end it's the result that counts and both are amazing. 
One think that you really need to keep in mind if you're working in the sync world:

*Bouncing of Stems!*

Whether it's the full stereo master or group-stems. And we all know how terribly time consuming that can be. And that's where Cubase wins for me. You have the option to bounce out all stems in one go and you can choose from groups, audio & instruments. The major plus is that it can include all routings through the master chain including routings of side chain etc.
What has been a 1-3hour struggle bouncing single stems can now be done with one click and only takes you 5-10 minutes! They started this with C11. Hope this helps!
Check this out:


----------



## AudioLoco (Dec 2, 2022)

Both can do well most things, it's about your workflow preferences, many professional composers work with both without any issues yadda yadda...

Having said that: Cubase all the way!!

Coming from PT I think the audio side is a bit more similar.
It's full of features but many can be hidden out of sight or just ignored if not needed.
It's cross platform so if you ever decided to switch to Windows one day you are not bind to Apple hardware and ever changing OS.
When you need to exchange projects with Hans, Alan and Ludwig it's much more straight forward.


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 2, 2022)

go with Studio One! JK... though that's my main DAW these days. I like the work flow of Cubase more but since Mac Silicon, I've had a lot of issues with VST compatibility in Cubase 12 which is a drag. If you are Windows, you have little to worry about methinks.


----------



## MrGolang (Dec 2, 2022)

I can recommend cubase.
Steinberg improves the software regularly and the workflow is pretty straight forward and the software improves every year. They have the money and the talents to be a big player for many years to come and your workflows and knowhow will stay relevant.
They also have some really nice features for none keyboard players.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 2, 2022)

musicalweather said:


> What frustrated me about using Logic for orchestral compositions with many instrument tracks is that I had to do this ridiculous setup to get it to work with VE Pro (in the Environments window, setting up multi-instruments and transformers).


Not to sidetrack, but if you stick to just 16 instruments per VEPro instance (into one stereo channel), it's a breeze. No need to mess around with the environment, etc. I left VEPro in the dust though, the dynamic loading feature in Logic is a Godsend.


----------



## musicalweather (Dec 2, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Not to sidetrack, but if you stick to just 16 instruments per VEPro instance (into one stereo channel), it's a breeze. No need to mess around with the environment, etc. I left VEPro in the dust though, the dynamic loading feature in Logic is a Godsend.


That means just one port per instance of VE Pro, right? I find that inefficient and impractical. Not sure how I would leave VE Pro behind as all my libraries are on external machines.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 2, 2022)

musicalweather said:


> That means just one port per instance of VE Pro, right? I find that inefficient and impractical. Not sure how I would leave VE Pro behind as all my libraries are on external machines.


Correct. Many of us have worked this way, you just need to premix levels in VEPro to streamline it. Works like a charm. Apple needs to get with the times and have multi port ability, like Cubase. There's a workaround, but it's a real PITA and disables features such as tempo mapped plugins.


----------



## Fidelity (Dec 2, 2022)

If you care about business practices, Cubase any day over Logic (no, this isn't about irrelevant things Apple has done but about their conduct w/ Logic specifically). Logic is also now version locked (meaning 2012 macs can't run it) - something else to think about if you aren't always upgrading your computer.


----------



## blinkofani (Dec 2, 2022)

Fidelity said:


> If you care about business practices, Cubase any day over Logic (no, this isn't about irrelevant things Apple has done but about their conduct w/ Logic specifically). Logic is also now version locked (meaning 2012 macs can't run it) - something else to think about if you aren't always upgrading your computer.


Agreed. It never disturbed me much as I change computers every 3 years so they still have some value when i sell them(more so if the AppleCare is still valid). Probably because I never buy expensive Macs so I don’t see them as an investment(but who can call a computer an investment when a new model comes out as soon as you bought a shiny new one??). But I’ve read a lot of complaints from people who keep their computers a long time and it’s understandable. But at the same time, what can you reasonably expect from a company like Apple who doesn’t look in the rearview mirror? They often incorporate new OS features in Logic so the app kinda have to follow closely. 

That being said, I still have a 2003 Dual G5 running Leopard and LP9.0.1, and Tiger and LP7.2.3. Running like on day one!!


----------



## Bereckis (Dec 2, 2022)

Tom_D said:


> Außerdem sind Track-Ordner in Cubase ein weiteres Plus für mich. Sie können sogar verschachtelte Ordner haben (z. B. einen Hauptordner für "Strings" und dann Unterordner für alle Ihre "vln 1" "Vln 2" usw. String-Patches. Es funktioniert für mich.


Logic Pro can do this too since the last version!


----------



## Bereckis (Dec 2, 2022)

danstein said:


> My initial bias was toward Logic for that very reason. However, I am seeing some compelling arguments for Cubase. Glad I can actually demo them both.
> 
> I didn't mention my Mac specs. Currently I have an M1Pro 14" MacBook Pro, 8-core, 16 GB of RAM. It's not my ideal computer and very wimpy in the RAM department for orchestral writing purposes, I know. It'll probably be replaced by a Mac Studio with a decent amount of RAM sometime next year.


I do not believe that this is necessary.

The M processors do not need the large amount of RAM.


----------



## morganwable (Dec 2, 2022)

For what it's worth, I recently moved back to a macbook after 3 years on Windows simply because nothing scratched the itch that Logic does for me. Also for other reasons, but that was the main one.

If you haven't already gotten hooked on Logic... I might actually recommend *not* doing so? It'll save you money on hardware in the long run if you'd like the option to get more bang for your buck with a Windows machine. If you're planning on sticking with Mac permanently, though, Logic would be my recommendation. It's just... so _nice_ to use. It's uniquely intuitive.

It also bears mentioning that Cubase is ugly as sin. Personally for me, UX matters a great deal - the only 3 DAWs I've ever thusly considered daily driving have been Logic, FL, and Studio One. FL isn't very good for orchestral composition and Studio One is just... not quite there in terms of usability for me.

That being said, I know Cubase has some features and flexibilities that some of the others don't - kinda like Bitwig or Ableton, or presumably Cakewalk. If that matters to you, that ought to weigh in. Ideally, I'd like Logic to be slightly more flexible when it comes to MIDI routing and manipulating MIDI signals, but it works well enough for me in every other area that I can make it work.



Bereckis said:


> I do not believe that this is necessary.
> 
> The M processors do not need the large amount of RAM.


RE: RAM - M1 macs do definitely use RAM more efficiently than Intel computers do, and as such, 16gb is the new 32... to the layman who's reading emails and editing spreadsheets. For _our_ purposes, and for video work - 16gb is still 16gb. If you're going to be using large traditional sample libraries, you might end up having to freeze tracks from time to time.

Another thing to mention about Logic is that it has very good track freezing capabilities, and it's far more reliable at bouncing tracks _slower_ than realtime than any other DAW I've ever used, even FL studio. When you have a full template, both of those features are absolutely essential, yet are almost never present.

Given your specs, I'll bet Logic will be far more optimized for the hardware than Cubase is.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 2, 2022)

blinkofani said:


> more so if the AppleCare is still valid


They don't mention it, but Apple Care is now available past the 3-year mark. You just have to sign up continue paying annually.


----------



## Bereckis (Dec 2, 2022)

I myself switched from Ableton Live to Logic Pro in 2020 with the start of Corona.

I had enjoyed using Ableton Live on stage with a current MacBook Pro because it just worked well.

Now I deal more with orchestrations and no longer need a DAW for mobile applications.

At that time I had asked Spitfire Audio which DAW they would recommend to me.

They gave me good sources of information at the time and pointed out that Ableton Live was also suitable for this. There is no one DAW that is best suited.

I think it's really an individual decision in the end.

I myself am happy with my choice of Logic Pro because:

- I am a convinced Apple user, because I work professionally in IT and am confronted with MS Windows problems every day. 

- Furthermore, I use IPhone, IPad, IWatch, IMac and MacBook in combination. My hardware is always relatively up to date.

- I worked more intensively with Final Cut.

- What surprised me in the beginning was how well Logic Pro is documented on the net.

In the end, for any DAW, you have to learn intensively and adapt your individual work processes.

Testing each DAW is certainly a good help. I think that you should also take into account which DAW the collaborating musicians and composers are using.

I worked with Cubase in my younger years as a keyboard player because we also used Cubase in the studio. 

Good luck with your decision!


----------



## Tom_D (Dec 2, 2022)

morganwable said:


> If you haven't already gotten hooked on Logic... I might actually recommend *not* doing so? It'll save you money on hardware in the long run if you'd like the option to get more bang for your buck with a Windows machine. If you're planning on sticking with Mac permanently, though, Logic would be my recommendation. It's just... so _nice_ to use. It's uniquely intuitive.


I agree here. Part of my decision to switch to Cubase/PC was that I was making a conscious effort to get _away _from Mac (after having a cheese-grater mac pro for about a decade) - mostly due to the prices of the newer powerful mac computers.

M1 brings cost down a bit, but I find the limited ports and need for docks and peripherals etc. annoying. 

I like having built a PC with 10 usb slots, and a chassis that can house 5-10 hard drives, and multiple video outputs on the motherboard of my choosing without having to use thunderbolt to HDMI dongles etc etc etc.

If you're definitely sticking to mac, I would be inclined to stay on Logic X

Another cool thing about Logic is that you can use it on any apple computer you own as long as you are using the same apple ID. So you could have a portable laptop rig, a main studio rig, or even use a Mac Mini as a STEM print rig where you host your video and dump your STEMs (this is what I currently do with my Mac Mini M1). All that for a single fee of buying Logic X once.


----------



## edhamilton (Dec 2, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> Another vote for Logic. I used to use Cubase, but I gave up after version 10.5. The crashing was unreal. Logic has always been rock solid for me, and you just can't argue with the price. Cubase, by comparison, is pretty expensive to own and maintain. Logic is made for the Mac by the people who make the Mac.


To me, Logic still feels like it was ported over to the mac (ancient history but it was), and has never really been as intuitive because it didn't start on a mac.
That apple bought emagic never really addressed this.

Performer was always mac first.

But at this point - each DAW option will do great work. Its down to preference and your own experience bias.


----------



## danstein (Dec 2, 2022)

Bereckis said:


> I do not believe that this is necessary.
> 
> The M processors do not need the large amount of RAM.


We'll see - I hope you're right! This machine is pretty new to me, and I'm still figuring out what sorts of things are going to impact performance. For instance, if I'm still running a bunch of things under Rosetta, does that impact my RAM footprint? I'm new to setting up a big orchestral template, just discovered why purging is such a big deal - LOL!


----------



## SupremeFist (Dec 2, 2022)

Fidelity said:


> If you care about business practices, Cubase any day over Logic (no, this isn't about irrelevant things Apple has done but about their conduct w/ Logic specifically). Logic is also now version locked (meaning 2012 macs can't run it) - something else to think about if you aren't always upgrading your computer.


Do you have a 2012 Windows PC that can run the latest version of Cubase? Cool if so.


----------



## Jett Hitt (Dec 2, 2022)

edhamilton said:


> To me, Logic still feels like it was ported over to the mac (ancient history but it was), and has never really been as intuitive because it didn't start on a mac.
> That apple bought emagic never really addressed this.
> 
> Performer was always mac first.
> ...


I’ve always wanted to try DP, but it ain’t cheap, and they don’t even have a trial.


----------



## Fidelity (Dec 2, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> Do you have a 2012 Windows PC that can run the latest version of Cubase? Cool if so.



My 2012 macbook pro could and did run Cubase 12, regardless of whether or not it was "supposed" to, and steinberg lets you download past versions. Logic's demo version straight up wouldn't install - which is a shame, because I was considering going back to it over upgrading Cubase.

Moreover, I'm fairly confident Cubase 12 would run fine on my ~2008 PC workstation that's sitting in storage.


----------



## Living Fossil (Dec 2, 2022)

danstein said:


> If anyone can run down the relative pros and cons of both packages, I'd love to be able to make a better-informed decision. I am currently trying out a demo version of Cubase, but Logic doesn't offer a demo so I have to gather what info I can before plunking down more cash.


The problem is that usually people know better the pros of the software they are using and often think that the same thing isn't possible on the other platform.
That's at least always my impression when I read such threads.

In my opinion, it's really about how you can emotionally connect to the software.
Both, Logic and Cubase are great products and there are plenty of reasons why to decide for one or the other.
Both are complex products with tons of (often hidden) features.

But in the end, it's as if somebody asks if red or blue (or green) is the nicer colour:
it's subjective.
And if a software makes you love your work, it's the right one.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Dec 2, 2022)

My 2010 Mac Pro is running the latest version of logicpro.  but it is unlikely to be able to run logicpro 10.8 next year which most likely will require Ventura. But yea in my opinion this is a very real concern. Latest version of digital performer can run on much older macs than logicpro. Cubase is better about backwards compatibility also. 

Keep in mind that logicpro is a terrific product that can do amazing things but Apple is not making much money from it, they pretty much give it away in order to get us to buy and upgrade macs. Their grand plan is and always will be to get us all on the mac-upgrade-train. Pros and cons to that but just be prepared for it.


----------



## SupremeFist (Dec 2, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> In my opinion, it's really about how you can emotionally connect to the software.


Yes! It's like a guitarist deciding whether he's mainly a Fender or a Gibson guy. They're both great and it's fundamentally a matter of physiology + taste. For me, I started with Cubase (on a Mac) in the 90s and then switched to Logic because Cubase had an unfixed bug with hitpoints for scoring to picture, and have been on Logic ever since. I'm sure I could happily switch to Cubase if there were a gun to my head (and I'm slightly jealous of multiple cc lanes in the piano roll), but I like the way Logic works for me and find it psychologically more "transparent" for how I like to work. Still, I could write _my_ music in any DAW if I had to.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 2, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> My 2010 Mac Pro is running the latest version of logicpro.


You are running Monterey?


----------



## musicalweather (Dec 2, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> I’ve always wanted to try DP, but it ain’t cheap, and they don’t even have a trial.


I don't think this is true. You can download DP 11 from the MOTU site, then enter your name and email address when prompted (at the point where you would enter the keycode, I believe) to run the trial. I've run trials of earlier versions of DP.


----------



## Jett Hitt (Dec 2, 2022)

musicalweather said:


> I don't think this is true. You can download DP 11 from the MOTU site, then enter your name and email address when prompted (at the point where you would enter the keycode, I believe) to run the trial. I've run trials of earlier versions of DP.


Thank you. They don’t make it obvious. I was just looking at it last night.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Dec 2, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> You are running Monterey?



Yes, on opencore


----------



## musicalweather (Dec 2, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> Thank you. They don’t make it obvious. I was just looking at it last night.


It's baffling that they don't make that info more obvious.


----------



## ed buller (Dec 3, 2022)

CUBASE...it's a no -brainer

best

e


----------



## AudioLoco (Dec 3, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> I could happily switch to Cubase if there were a gun to my head (and I'm slightly jealous of multiple cc lanes in the piano roll), but I like the way Logic works for me


Wait, no multiple cc lanes?! How can you even live?
 

The most obviously stricking couple of features in Cubase (I think in Logic too- ?) *as opposed to PT* are really basic and it baffles me everytime I see a PT user looking for a plugin by scrolling an infinite number of options while I drink my beer and type the first few letters of the plugin which magically appears... 
Then I bring out the trash, and take the dog for a walk while the PT user is looking for a track to work on amongst 247 audio tracks, because... no folder tracks.


----------



## Vik (Dec 3, 2022)

AudioLoco said:


> Wait, no multiple cc lanes?! How can you even live?


You use a key command (I use Y, but the factory default is something else) to display the CCs that are in use, one at a time.


----------



## blinkofani (Dec 3, 2022)

AudioLoco said:


> Wait, no multiple cc lanes?! How can you even live?
> 
> 
> The most obviously stricking couple of features in Cubase (I think in Logic too- ?) *as opposed to PT* are really basic and it baffles me everytime I see a PT user looking for a plugin by scrolling an infinite number of options while I drink my beer and type the first few letters of the plugin which magically appears...
> Then I bring out the trash, and take the dog for a walk while the PT user is looking for a track to work on amongst 247 audio tracks, because... no folder tracks.


Mmm, it’s been a while since you saw a PT user work at its DAW!! PT has Folder tracks for a while now(finally) and there’s a search field to find plugins.

Hopefully this thread won’t end up as a DAW war one with misinformation coming from everywhere. Usually ends up that way.


----------



## AudioLoco (Dec 3, 2022)

blinkofani said:


> Mmm, it’s been a while since you saw a PT user work at its DAW!! PT has Folder tracks for a while now(finally) and there’s a search field to find plugins.
> 
> Hopefully this thread won’t end up as a DAW war one with misinformation coming from everywhere. Usually ends up that way.


I therefore apologize!
Congrats on the new feature  
(Since what version if I may ask?)


----------



## HammyHavoc (Dec 3, 2022)

blinkofani said:


> Mmm, it’s been a while since you saw a PT user work at its DAW!! PT has Folder tracks for a while now(finally) and there’s a search field to find plugins.
> 
> Hopefully this thread won’t end up as a DAW war one with misinformation coming from everywhere. Usually ends up that way.


Yes, PT 2020 introduced folder tracks.

Misinformation—I prefer to call them misinformed posts.  It isn't necessarily a bad thing as it provides an opportunity for people to learn about what's changed since they last looked. You see the same thing with Windows versus macOS discussions where converts to x operating system didn't know that y gripe has been fixed since z. Likewise, it's a great way to compile a list of points of friction for further development and see if a problem is actually a problem versus someone having just not RTFM or misconfigured something.


----------



## AudioLoco (Dec 3, 2022)

blinkofani said:


> Mmm, it’s been a while since you saw a PT user work at its DAW!! PT has Folder tracks for a while now(finally) and there’s a search field to find plugins.
> 
> Hopefully this thread won’t end up as a DAW war one with misinformation coming from everywhere. Usually ends up that way.


PS. Still no plugin search function though, or that has been introduced too? Genuine question.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 3, 2022)

I just watched the movie Devotion last night, scored by Chanda Dancy - who does everything in Pro Tools. Composing, programming, mixing, etc. I find Pro Tool's MIDI (even these days) still lacking compared to Logic and Cubase, but some people are making it work.


----------



## blinkofani (Dec 3, 2022)

AudioLoco said:


> I therefore apologize!
> Congrats on the new feature
> (Since what version if I may ask?)


A year or so ago. Same for the plugin search. I’m not an « avid » PT user so I don’t keep track much of when what came out. Time flies by so fast…


----------



## IFM (Dec 7, 2022)

Well, here are a couple of tips for you to try instead of another comparison for both. 

1) You will notice that when editing MIDI in Cubase, there is a button you can toggle to select Controllers with the notes or not. In Logic, it is not as obvious. In the Piano Roll, choose Functions > Include Non-Note MIDI Events. Best to create a shortcut for that (if you can, haven't checked).

2) In Cubase you can easily copy CC data from one type to another by simple copy and paste or paste at original position. In Logic you need to create some Midi Transformer presets to do this, once for each type and direction. THe other way is more tedious with having the event/list editor open, copy>past, then change the CC value of the pasted data before you lose focus in the editor.


----------



## Vik (Dec 7, 2022)

IFM said:


> 1) You will notice that when editing MIDI in Cubase, there is a button you can toggle to select Controllers with the notes or not. In Logic, it is not as obvious. In the Piano Roll, choose Functions > Include Non-Note MIDI Events. Best to create a shortcut for that (if you can, haven't checked).


Yes, there is a (non-assigned) key command.



IFM said:


> 2) In Cubase you can easily copy CC data from one type to another by simple copy and paste or paste at original position. In Logic you need to create some Midi Transformer presets to do this, once for each type and direction. THe other way is more tedious with having the event/list editor open, copy>past, then change the CC value of the pasted data before you lose focus in the editor.


Maybe the following will be a useful tip for some, since it doesn't require opening the Event List or any other editor:

In Logic's main window, if you look at a region with some CC data, hold dow the alt key while you select a different CC (eg. Expression instead if Modulation). Do this (see image) where it says "Ch 1: Mod".

Then this window pops up:






Make your choice, and you're done.


Regarding "... more tedious with having the event/list editor open, copy>past, then change the CC value of the pasted data before you lose focus in the editor." 

In the Event List, Command D ("Duplicate Events and Numerical Edit") is very useful. If you press that key command while some event(s) are selected, they will be duplicated at the original position and selected. Then it's easy to select one of them (they all have a slightly differernt color since they are selected) and change them all to eg. Expression.

Select:






Press Cmd-D, and then change the light gray events to something else than Modulation:







So, no need to copy-paste or paste at original position.


----------



## IFM (Dec 7, 2022)

Still more steps than in Cubase but I didn’t know about the alt-select feature which is very handy.


----------



## Vik (Dec 7, 2022)

Yes, it's handy – and would be more handy if it would work on selected CC events in the editors as well. The same is true for Command D.


----------



## Minkiechu (Dec 7, 2022)

I researched all the different DAWs last year and decided to go ahead with Cubase as my first DAW because of its strong set of features and more friendly / open looking interface.


----------



## jonathanwright (Dec 7, 2022)

The more threads like this I read, the more I think it would be handy for us to have an editable spreadsheet/database of the latest DAW features.

Something along the lines of this cobbled together mess:

*DAW/FEATURE * * Logic Pro Cubase Digital Performer*
_Latest Version 10.7.6 12.0 11.2_

Sampler Yes Sampler Track Yes 
Multiple CC Lanes No Yes Yes
Folder Tracks Yes (2 deep) Yes Yes


----------



## Vik (Dec 7, 2022)

jonathanwright said:


> an editable spreadsheet/database of the latest DAW features.


With feature rich apps like, it would IMO make sense not only include the latest features – since most likely, none of us are aware of or remember them all. This would be a massive database – printing out only the list of Logic's circa 2000 key commands is a 40 page document!


----------



## Bereckis (Dec 7, 2022)

I think that the discussion "Who is the most beautiful DAW in the country?" is irrelevant.

I used to work with Cubase (studio), then for a very long time with Ableton Live (stage and home studio) and since 2020 exclusively with Logic Pro (home studio orchestration and composition).

Each time, the training was very time-consuming and tedious.

Today I had looked at Studio One as a demo because I would like a better integrated music writing program. Spontaneously, I liked Studio One, but I realized relatively quickly that I would have another laborious learning curve. No thanks!

Studio One uninstalled again and rather be creative...


----------



## Scottyb (Dec 7, 2022)

Logic vote from me. Runs way more tracks without breaking a sweat (and that's important when running lots of virtual instruments and also ... it's 199.00 forever with pretty steady and nice updates. And Apple doesn't care how many places or times you load it.


----------



## ZeroZero (Dec 7, 2022)

Pc Cubase user here. IMO much better value for money and I like bb able to build my own machine. If I want more storage, I just stick in another M.2. My machine is a core i7 m.2 system drive and sample drive, 8 of them, with 64 go of RAM. About 8tb in all. It has about 14 USB ports six of which are on card I put in. It works really well and very, very fast. I dread to think how much an equivalent Mac might be. 
If I were to build today, some of the chips are ridiculous, with 64/128 threads, but going more moderately priced with say a 5950x plus a PCI 4 mobo with NMVE gen 2 m.2 storage, one could build a machine ten times as fast as mine, even though mine is faster than most macs. Yes, there are chips out there now that cost 6.5k U.K. pounds, but even as ”lower” priced cpu is now absolutely silly and can run anything like a road runner on steroids, especially with the new 7400 mbps M.2s . We are probably over the point when we need the fastest machine or drives to run heavy orchestral templates.


----------



## inthevoid (Dec 8, 2022)

Previously Logic and now Cubase and Reaper user - my 2 cents is that Logic is unbeatable bang for your buck (given you’ve already got a Mac) - it’s a rock solid app and the inbuilt instruments and plugins are fantastic.

However I couldn’t go back from the flexibility of custom macros and MIDI workflow options that Cubase and Reaper provide, but I am a bit of a workflow obsessive! Last time I used Logic you still couldn’t view more than 1 MIDI CC lane at a time as well. Or have more than 1 layer of folder tracks for organisation…


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 8, 2022)

inthevoid said:


> Or have more than 1 layer of folder tracks for organisation…


Recently they added this ability (though only up to two levels - but a real game changer for template organization).


----------



## Tronam (Dec 13, 2022)

I use Ableton Live and Reason for electronic music, Logic and Cubase for orchestral depending on mood. It's mildly annoying (and expensive) to be spread out like that, but ultimately I've found that no matter what I'm using it doesn't seem to matter much. I can use them all interchangeably and the resulting music is basically the same types of stuff I always make. I suppose the cliche lesson I finally learned over the years is that the choice in DAW makes almost no difference whatsoever. Aside from the "vibe test" or whether you click with the user interface as mentioned repeatedly in this thread, probably a more important factor is whether you plan to collaborate with others. Project compatibility between users and/or platforms could be a major dealbreaker.


----------

