# How many instruments (and articulations) do you usually layer in an instrument group?



## Shantar (Oct 27, 2008)

I know the first and most obvious answer for this would be "it depends". But what I´m asking is how many instruments you usually layer in order to get the big hollywood sound. I´ve examined TJs Mojomadness midi file and found that he layered as many as 8(I think) different articulations to form a trumpet-section. It was all played in one go so all the 8 articulations were playing at the same time, be it staccatos, marccatos, portatos, sustains etc, all with the same CC, velocity and basically identical to my eye. I just wondered if this is common practice? What it seemed with TJs Mojomadness, or at least the part we all were allowed to download, was that he stacked all these articulations so that it would be easy to perform in realtime. It sure saves a lot of time, but frankly it´s the most realistic mockup I´ve heard to date so I wonder if this is the way other pros around here work? It would be great to be able to make similar stacked sections. 

Are there any common tricks to layer or stack, say, violins? For instance: Violins vib sus+violins non vib sus+violins detache+violins stac+violins marc+violins spic etc.etc....??

I know the key to such a layering would be to individually balance each articulation, maybe lowering the short and fast articulations in volume to fit the sustain section... Well, I´m just talking to myself here now so please feel free to comment on the subject and share your thoughts on it and your approach. 


Chris


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## Hal (Oct 27, 2008)

Ok first of all where is tò™   ‰–o


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## synthetic (Oct 27, 2008)

Maartin Spruijt used to have some tutorials like this on his digitalorchestration.com site, but it looks like they were taken down.


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## Shantar (Oct 27, 2008)

Well, thats too bad.  Let hope someone here is willing to share a tip or two.. 

-Chris


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## lee (Oct 27, 2008)

I have the Spruijt tutorials saved and downloaded, so if it´s ok with him I can mail em to you, Shantar. Or put them up for public download.

/Johnny


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## JT3_Jon (Oct 27, 2008)

I'd love to see the tutorials as well, if possible. =o


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## Shantar (Oct 27, 2008)

When I tried stacking different trumpet samples from Gold Pro XP, using similar articulations that TJs Mojomadness does, I felt that it created an illusion of many, many more layers when using a couple of DXF-patches together with different staccatos, marcatos and short articulations. Moving the modwheel up and down resulted in a more natural crecendo or decrecendo than I´ve been able to achieve with only one multilayered instrument. Even though it was something like 32 trumpets in unison when you sum it all up it felt like a more tight and bright trumpet ensemble instead of an oversized section. This has shown me that layering many, not just two instruments but as many as it takes can make great results. I tried similar layering with the violins and the cellos and even though there were 11 violins x 6 playing the same note it didn´t sound like 66 were playing in unison. I think that with clever balancing, and the right articulations toghether with some good x-faded multilayered patches you can make a fairly good sounding and very playable instrument section. 

-Chris


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## synthetic (Oct 27, 2008)

I've found that this can get phasey and small. I've started doing the opposite: I'll use VSL for first violin and SI for second violin. When I do doubles, I'll play them as two passes.


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## Shantar (Oct 28, 2008)

Well, I didn´t experience any phasing problems, but then again I have not experimented too much with this yet. Maybe I´ll come to the same conclusion as you have, I don´t know. But you mean to say that you do not layer at all? Maybe your libraries are just miles ahead of mine. I´ve never tried even VSL or SI for that matter. I sort of swore to myself not to buy a new library until I could fully master what I already have. I just recently started doing orchestral music again after having a break for a year and a half not doing any music at all really. I just hope that limiting myself to my current setup will yield some good results and make me more focused and creative.


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## lee (Oct 28, 2008)

Ok Maarten Spruijt said it was ok to share the tips and tricks (and they were not removed because of Symphobia) so here they are:
http://rapidshare.com/files/158446036/Maarten_Spruijt_-_Composer_For_Film_Tips_och_trick.rar.html (http://rapidshare.com/files/158446036/M ... k.rar.html)

You might wanna check out some comments about them here:
http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... ips+tricks

Have fun.

/Johnny


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## h202 (Feb 3, 2009)

lee @ Tue Oct 28 said:


> Ok Maarten Spruijt said it was ok to share the tips and tricks (and they were not removed because of Symphobia) so here they are:
> http://rapidshare.com/files/158446036/Maarten_Spruijt_-_Composer_For_Film_Tips_och_trick.rar.html (http://rapidshare.com/files/158446036/M ... k.rar.html)
> 
> You might wanna check out some comments about them here:
> ...



Hi,

I'm new here so I hope this post is okay. I was wondering if I could trouble you to upload this file again? Rapidshare has deleted the file due to lack of access.

Regards!

Seth


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## billval3 (Feb 3, 2009)

h202 @ Tue Feb 03 said:


> I was wondering if I could trouble you to upload this file again? Rapidshare has deleted the file due to lack of access.



+1 8)


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Feb 3, 2009)

I'd definitely like to take a look at those files too. Anyone still got a copy?


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## JohnG (Feb 3, 2009)

I realize I'm probably in the minority, but I almost never layer sounds like this. I find a single articulation that sounds good by itself and use that.

I used to do more of this in the 16 bit days.


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## lee (Feb 3, 2009)

h202 @ Tue Feb 03 said:


> lee @ Tue Oct 28 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok Maarten Spruijt said it was ok to share the tips and tricks (and they were not removed because of Symphobia) so here they are:
> ...



Here they are again:

http://rapidshare.com/files/193434075/Maarten_Spruijt_-_Composer_For_Film_Tips_och_trick.rar.html (http://rapidshare.com/files/193434075/M ... k.rar.html)

(can now be downloaded 10 times. It will be deleted after 90 days without download.)


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Feb 3, 2009)

Thanks!


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## Bo Clausen (Feb 3, 2009)

Hej Johnny

Thanks for the re-upload.
However the 10 times DL limit is already gone. :( 
So I didn't get them - is it possible for you to upload them again?

Hilsen
Bo


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## h202 (Feb 3, 2009)

Hi,

I made the original request and I'm not even able to download the file. lol. I do appreciate it though. Could you use an easier filehost like Mediafire.com please maybe? Or could you attach it in an email to sethleon at aol dot com? Aactually, looks like you can add attachments to posts here in the forum as well.

Thanks!



lee @ Tue Feb 03 said:


> h202 @ Tue Feb 03 said:
> 
> 
> > lee @ Tue Oct 28 said:
> ...


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## billval3 (Feb 3, 2009)

PM me with your e-mail and I'll send it to you. It's only 5 MBs.


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## hbuus (Feb 3, 2009)

http://www.box.net/shared/tpcxegztpz


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## Bo Clausen (Feb 3, 2009)

@ Bill
Thanks for your offer - but I've just used the Box.net link.

@ Henrik
Thanks for uploading it to Box.net

Hilsen
Bo
8541 Skødstrup


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## Mahlon (Feb 3, 2009)

Thanks Henrik :D Lee :D 

Mahlon


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## P.T. (Feb 4, 2009)

Thanks for posting those tips.
Downloading now.


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## lee (Feb 4, 2009)

Sorry for the bad choice of web host guys! Glad someone else could help.


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