# Soaring on the Rays of Infinity



## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 20, 2019)

Another exercises done recently. Any suggestions / feedback is welcome.


Special Thanks to @DMDComposer

*update 18/02/19, entire piece:

*


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## novaburst (Jan 20, 2019)

Hope to hear the completion it's really going well and a nice story going on there, very dramatic and full of flavour so really look forward to hear the end


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 21, 2019)

novaburst said:


> Hope to hear the completion it's really going well and a nice story going on there, very dramatic and full of flavour so really look forward to hear the end


Hey man, 
Sure, I will keep you informed. Thanks for the feedback.


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## Daniel (Jan 22, 2019)

Very cool!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 6, 2019)

novaburst said:


> Hope to hear the completion it's really going well and a nice story going on there, very dramatic and full of flavour so really look forward to hear the end



Here is an update for you, the beginning was completely rewritten, and added later sections, at the end..are outtakes and pure workflow junk..:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b41n5ljgd..._Soaring_on_the_Rays_of_Infinity_v37.mp3?dl=0


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## novaburst (Feb 6, 2019)

Nice work again @AlexanderSchiborr the brass is the star of the show you made them work well even in the quiet section, they really sang, the piece had a lot of variation but the whole piece was glued together, the mixing is nice I do feel you was being a touch careful with the volume would have liked it to be a little louder, but I guess we can use the volume knob.

Really great stuff, writing you got going on there nice work.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 6, 2019)

novaburst said:


> Nice work again @AlexanderSchiborr the brass is the star of the show you made them work well even in the quiet section, they really sang, the piece had a lot of variation but the whole piece was glued together, the mixing is nice I do feel you was being a touch careful with the volume would have liked it to be a little louder, but I guess we can use the volume knob.
> 
> Really great stuff, writing you got going on there nice work.



I am and was never a big fan of using gain compressing for such music and even this template has a slight compression going on but very settle to maintain the quiter sections. My references are old recordings from the 40s and 60s. Actually the Vari Mu serving here as the compressor is just to to add a bit glue and thats it. As you said: use the volume knob and turn it up. I am pretty sure a modern approach to mastering such a track would be to make it louder but it would imo destroy impact of when the orchestra goes FF. 

However as this is a longer term project, I am not done with the composition, maybe in some months because I am learning stuff and try to apply more techniques which I am just learning with my friend Dillon. Thanks for the comment.


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## ein fisch (Feb 6, 2019)

can't give detailed feedback as im not on that level yet (compositionally), but man, keep it up, that was a wonderful piece of music!


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## novaburst (Feb 7, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> However as this is a longer term project, I am not done with the composition, maybe in some months because I am learning stuff and try to apply more techniques which I am just learning with my friend Dillon. Thanks for the comment.



Well the piece is a joy to listen to


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 8, 2019)

novaburst said:


> Well the piece is a joy to listen to



Hey novaburst, 
just to read that is a motivation to post it here. Thanks a lot, man.


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## whiskers (Feb 8, 2019)

Dat brass...

Sounds amazing


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## I like music (Feb 8, 2019)

Can't comment compositionally, because I could never write this. But I will say, this is excellent. Really really enjoyed it. Spitfire brass?


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## Saxer (Feb 9, 2019)

Just found this thread... ha, great music! I love the vintage vibe and sound! Strings are still kind of pumping but I know that's part of your final cleaning process. I adore your ability to create this Hollywoodish textures with perc/woods/harp/pno. Looking forward how this track develops! It's really fun to follow your WIP!


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## samphony (Feb 9, 2019)

@AlexanderSchiborr 

I like it. Don’t stop. It’s progressing really well. I see a lot of Spielberg movie snippets in my head.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 9, 2019)

I like music said:


> Can't comment compositionally, because I could never write this. But I will say, this is excellent. Really really enjoyed it. Spitfire brass?



No, it is sample modeling mixed with a bit infinite brass for the most time and I would say the main frame. I added also here and there some horns from csb and caspian, though once I have improved the timbre and eq curves of my modeled horns I will kick them out. CB Tuba is from Spitfire.

I read a few times that people feel not to comment on the composition. Don´t be shy guys, this stuff I write is no nuclear science. Imo you can comment everywhere you like to, you don´t need to be able to write in that idiom like that in order to have an eligable opinion on the music. I often ask my wife about an opinion on my music and she often gives me very good feedback from a typical audience which is very valuable imo.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 9, 2019)

Saxer said:


> Just found this thread... ha, great music! I love the vintage vibe and sound! Strings are still kind of pumping but I know that's part of your final cleaning process. I adore your ability to create this Hollywoodish textures with perc/woods/harp/pno. Looking forward how this track develops! It's really fun to follow your WIP!



Thanks my friend. Any tips for avoiding bumps? I guess you are talking about the transitions also. I hate that bumpiness with a passion. Sometimes I find out that scripted legato works a way better. Let me know.


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## synergy543 (Feb 10, 2019)

Great writing Alexander! I really enjoy your orchestration as well as hearing the piano sketch section which I assume will be orchestrated? Some sections such as 28s ~ sound like the orchestration could be filled in a bit more (right now sounds a little like a sketch with ensemble patches rather than a complete orch). Are you playing the piano sketch in real time? The piano sketch sounds like its quite challenging to play in spots. Keep at it! Its exciting to hear such WIP.

I think some of the "bumps" might be easily filled in with mixing the right amount of reverb as its a bit dry right now. Though it could be expression that is pumping (if you're riding the mod wheel). In any case, the least of your worries. Keep focusing on the writing man.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 10, 2019)

synergy543 said:


> Great writing Alexander! I really enjoy your orchestration as well as hearing the piano sketch section which I assume will be orchestrated? Some sections such as 28s ~ sound like the orchestration could be filled in a bit more (right now sounds a little like a sketch with ensemble patches rather than a complete orch). Are you playing the piano sketch in real time? The piano sketch sounds like its quite challenging to play in spots. Keep at it! Its exciting to hear such WIP.
> 
> I think some of the "bumps" might be easily filled in with mixing the right amount of reverb as its a bit dry right now. Though it could be expression that is pumping (if you're riding the mod wheel). In any case, the least of your worries. Keep focusing on the writing man.



Very good suggestions very kind of you. I will look at that spot at 28 seconds. I guess the thing is: Right before it is that big that its hard to make it bigger..so it feels therefore a bit thin..though in reality it isnt when you look closely at the orchestration which is a typical ET Flying orchestration device where you have 3 octave string with high winds stack with trombones due the harmonic glue and low brass and strings the bass while piano, harp and celesta doing an ornamental arrpeggiated thing creating forward motion. The piano part isn´t orchestrated yet and has to be rewritten because I simply repeated the fanfare later as this is utterly lazy indeed I need to bring a new touch to it and break it off, therefore applying certain development techniques. I will hand over the piano draft later on. Its not that easy for me to play, so I performed everything in little chunks..with corrections..


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 10, 2019)

@synergy543 Piano draft of the piece:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vojlpilpr...oaring_on_the_Rays_of_Infinity_Piano.mp3?dl=0

PS: Working around 2 months on that piece already..so I am not the fastest guy when it comes to those things..


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## synergy543 (Feb 10, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I will look at that spot at 28 seconds. I guess the thing is: Right before it is that big that its hard to make it bigger..so it feels therefore a bit thin..though in reality it isnt when you look closely at the orchestration which is a typical ET Flying orchestration device where you have 3 octave string with high winds stack with trombones due the harmonic glue and low brass and strings the bass while piano, harp and celesta doing an ornamental arrpeggiated thing creating forward motion.


Yes, I understand the problem, though I'm not qualified to give you the best solution (Maybe Doug or Mike could advise?). The best I can think would be possibly adding some light horn staccatos underneath to fill it out? In any case, its not about making it sound "bigger" but just more "complete" in terms of orchestration. I'm just copying some orchestration now to learn this type of stuff, though your approach just using it on your own composition seems better. Cheers.


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## synergy543 (Feb 10, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> PS: Working around 2 months on that piece already..so I am not the fastest guy when it comes to those things.


Ha! But you're just doing it. And that counts millions. Remember, Rubinstein, when he was 20 years old thought he sucked so badly that he tried to kill himself. He hung himself and pushed the chair away....and then the rope broke (WTF? Can you imagine). But then he just kept going to become the greatest pianist in the world. Too bad he didn't compose.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 10, 2019)

synergy543 said:


> Ha! But you're just doing it. And that counts millions. Remember, Rubinstein, when he was 20 years old thought he sucked so badly that he tried to kill himself. He hung himself and pushed the chair away....and then the rope broke (WTF? Can you imagine). But then he just kept going to become the greatest pianist in the world. Too bad he didn't compose.




tbh in order to write in that idiom you have to transcribe a tons of 40s music, ranging from korngold to webb which I do. Its not easy stuff because the harmony is very dense and has a lot of extensions and biting bass tones. So I spent a lot of time doing that, learning those progressions, and its a lot of guessing. But the more I do it, the more I detect certain patterns and gestures which re-apear in that idiom and it helps me to sort them. I also study with my friend dillon development techniques from Rachmaninoff and Tschaikowsky which we both learn and we work pretty close together for around 6 month now, sometimes we share everyday little things we sent forth and back. Imo thats a very good thing. We both don´t care too much about any current trends in music because we both are only focussed beeing one day great composers which matters the most to us.


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## synergy543 (Feb 10, 2019)

Korngold can be quite difficult to transcribe. As you say, some of it is very dense and without a score I'd have a hard time extracting nuggets. He does have some very distinct patterns though. However, almost all of these go way back to when he was a child prodigy so you can get many of the same ideas from his childhood pieces as the later more complex ones. Some (such as Sursum Corda) are so dense though that I have a difficult time digesting them even with a score. I think they're above my level at the moment so I'll come back to them later. I have the same problem with Rachmaninoff as I can't play most of his pieces but Tchaikovksky is much more accessible although not as modern. You already play piano but do you work actively on your piano skills? I too am very slow (and I hate this!) though I find improving my piano skills has helped over the years but it takes up so much time to even make a little progress (partly because I learn on my own). Improving as an older person is such a struggle though, I really envy you younger guys and particularly those child prodigies that soak material up like a sponge. Well, great to hear there are some others who appreciate such skills and values.

If you're interested in expanding your scope of study to include Prokofiev, I've found a great resource (as you may know, there is little written on Prokofiev outside of Russia). Konrad Harley did a dissertation thesis on Harmonic Functions of Prokofiev's Music. If you listen to his Piano Concerto No.2 or his Piano Sonata No.8, you'll hear he has some really interesting composition and orchestral techniques going on and Konrad discusses these in very digestible english. Totally different from the MV transcribe approach but equally interesting to me. Maybe you might like to take a look too? I've found it to be a real goldmine. Cheers.
https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/handle/1807/68119


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## novaburst (Feb 10, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> it is sample modeling



Not sure how much percentage of this library you used, maybe the back bone of the brass, I understand its not the easiest library to use, but glad to know composers are taken these type of unconventional library on board.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 10, 2019)

novaburst said:


> Not sure how much percentage of this library you used, maybe the back bone of the brass, I understand its not the easiest library to use, but glad to know composers are taken these type of unconventional library on board.



90 percent..most of the time you hear the sm brass alone..when very loud horns are at ff I backed them up with csb / caspian.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 18, 2019)

novaburst said:


> Well the piece is a joy to listen to



Here is the full symphonic track:


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## novaburst (Feb 19, 2019)

What a piece @AlexanderSchiborr I can hear a lot of life, lively ness, nice balance,

The piece reeks of skill and dedication and detail. 
Alot of time spent on the mixing, 

I understand your working with someone but I can still hear your flavour, especially the entry, must say a great example of how it's done.

The sharing of the piece from the start to the finish sharing the files shouts out alot of respect and dedication to music helping others

Nice one


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