# "So what do you compose?" - A specific style vs eclecticism



## musicbyjoao (Oct 12, 2020)

This is a question that has always been difficult to have a straight answer on my mind - You hear advices from your peers about how composers should focus on one style so that they are known for it. I understand the logic behind it. However, when you are scoring to picture, the picture (and most of the times, the director) tends to dictate the style. I've had to leave my comfort zone to study other styles in order to be able to emulate them better. Consequently, I've composed in many different ones. And for me that's great. I love the learning experience and I'm just a fan of music in general. From classical, to electronic to heavy metal. My main goal is transmitting a message or emotion, not writing in a specific style.

So, whenever someone asks me "what do you compose?" I never have a straight one or 2 word answer. I usually say "whatever the picture needs" - I do realize it's a vague answer - I will be then asked "but what style?", to which I then say that I usually enjoy writing minimalistic and moody as well as big and epic music.

How do you approach this?

UPDATE, Nov. 3rd 2020:
I have updated my website here: www.musicbyjoao.com . Having in mind the discussion on this thread, should I remove music from my audio section to focus more on a style or just leave it as it is?


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## him4nshug4ur (Oct 12, 2020)

Good Question. Though I am not experienced enough to answer this, as of now I would like the Film to guide my decisions in every way. Being in the shadow of comfort will make the process predictable, which might be boring in the long run. However, some believe that due to the abundance of free Education and Tools, one would have to be an expert at a certain job to stand out. I am not really sure how it would work in "Music Composition for Films", considering its diverse nature.


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## José Herring (Oct 12, 2020)

I'm working really hard these days to develop my own style that's eclectic.


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## musicbyjoao (Oct 12, 2020)

him4nshug4ur said:


> Good Question. Though I am not experienced enough to answer this, as of now I would like the Film to guide my decisions in every way. Being in the shadow of comfort will make the process predictable, which might be boring in the long run. However, some believe that due to the abundance of free Education and Tools, one would have to be an expert at a certain job to stand out. I am not really sure how it would work in "Music Composition for Films", considering its diverse nature.



Yes, it is something that I find strange. When I hear we should focus on one style. I keep asking "but isn't a job of a scorer to adapt to what the director is looking for?". Because composing, in a way, is the easiest part of the gig. The collaboration process can be, at times, the hardest (and I don't mean in a bad way) part as well as being able to translate the director's views into music and having to deal with the stress involved specially when a deadline is getting near. I find that I'm pretty good with that (only because I'm told). But not all directors are easy to work with (the same way as not all composers are easy to work with).


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## musicbyjoao (Oct 12, 2020)

José Herring said:


> I'm working really hard these days to develop my own style that's eclectic.



I hear you! I feel the same way. But I feel it's a very slow carving process and every project or work keeps defining it slowly for me. Only because I start adopting a certain sound I found and really like into everything, then I find I really enjoy this thing from this other project that I start incorporating. But it's very slow. I feel I'm getting there but that I have some time ahead of me still.


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## JohnG (Oct 12, 2020)

It is a _very_ slow carving process, just as you said @musicbyjoao

However, I do think many composers underestimate how much they already display a style, even if, to them, it's unconscious. For me, it's as much omission as commission -- in other words, what I _don't_ like as much as what I do.

There are lots of stylistic doodads and even harmonic moves that I hear a lot and that I either avoid or actively detest. I believe that we all have unconscious approaches to certain kinds of scenes (even if it's a matter of register) that betray a sometimes-unconscious style, a distinct musical personality.

Try this -- listen to your music (or maybe have a friend) and ask, "if I heard this, how would I describe it?" What emotional (sad, lively, energetic, languid) or formal musical terms (simple / complex, tonal / atonal, pulse-driven / floaty) would I apply? You may have more of a style than you realise.


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## José Herring (Oct 12, 2020)

musicbyjoao said:


> I hear you! I feel the same way. But I feel it's a very slow carving process and every project or work keeps defining it slowly for me. Only because I start adopting a certain sound I found and really like into everything, then I find I really enjoy this thing from this other project that I start incorporating. But it's very slow. I feel I'm getting there but that I have some time ahead of me still.


I think it's no longer an option. There's so much competition these days. 

When I started composing for film it was slightly pre internet. The only competition I had were Hollywood composers. It was fairly easy to get work believe it or not. And, you could just imitate your favorite successful composer and that was all you really needed. Today that's not the case.

The internet explosion has created a situation where everybody has access to everybody else. Thousands and thousands of composers unfortunately too many trying to be the next RCP or something. 

So one day not too long ago I woke up to a world were everybody had the same libraries, everybody had the same style and not only that it was being copied really well by AI.

What I've noticed is that it's forced everybody to innovate. The good thing is that the AI's and the copy cats tend to date themselves very quickly this way. 

With the millions and millions of trailer/library tracks on the internet these days it makes it fairly easy to understand why somebody like Hildur gets famous. Does it matter if she's any good or not? Moot point. Does it matter that she's good enough and doesn't sound like the thousands of other composers who would submit for any given project? Hell yeah that matters.


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## Tice (Oct 12, 2020)

I've also found that the needs of whomever you're working for are diverse and unpredictable. You end up writing in genres you never thought you would. But I also found that my 'style' isn't as much the genre I tend to write in. It's more that no matter which genre I write in, there are habits or preferences that shine through. I mean, Mozart and Haydn both wrote classical music for the courts. But you can tell a Haydn from a Mozart.
In my case I'd probably describe my 'style' as very layered and busy, often unpredictable. As though written by a person with a short attention span who wants to keep their mind occupied with lots of things going on at once.


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## mscp (Oct 12, 2020)

musicbyjoao said:


> So, whenever someone asks me "what do you compose?" I never have a straight one or 2 word answer. I usually say "whatever the picture needs" - I do realize it's a vague answer - I will be then asked "but what style?", to which I then say that I usually enjoy writing minimalistic and moody as well as big and epic music.
> 
> How do you approach this?



Your answer is not bad at all @musicbyjoao. It simply means you're a business man and you are willing to work with what is pitched/offered to you.

Style - may come slowly, overnight, or never (none of which is bad). Only you can develop a straight answer for that. Watch Johnny Depp's Letterman interviews on Youtube. He sublimely jokes about some aspects of 'image'.


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## musicbyjoao (Oct 13, 2020)

JohnG said:


> It is a _very_ slow carving process, just as you said @musicbyjoao
> 
> However, I do think many composers underestimate how much they already display a style, even if, to them, it's unconscious. For me, it's as much omission as commission -- in other words, what I _don't_ like as much as what I do.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your answer, John. My name is the same as yours, but in Portuguese (João) ^^

It's hard to find what I actively detest. I can say what doesn't fit with my musical language.

As for your exercise, that would be ok with one track but then comparing multiple tracks, I would have to bypass style and go to musical "grammar" to find a common thread - So, listening, I'd say melodies go from very simple to more complex but all within the range of "singable". Harmony wise, today, I use a blend of common harmonic progressions while using modal interchangeable chords to keep it fresh. Metric wise, I tend to keep a steady time signature but I always seem to have the odd passage or section where there will be different ones (even if it is just the one measure) but it doesn't sound like a "ha! meter change!" because they come as a result of some continuous musical idea that just happens to be a different meter. And rhythmically I seem to have the clave present in some shape or form.
If I really try style, I would say I really enjoy blending colors from different sources. I seem to always have something electronic, something orchestral, guitars... I seem to enjoy the subtly of low dynamics (pianissimo in the piano or guitar) and I seem to enjoy the tail of notes. Like when you go to a piano, play a chord very softly and let the sustain pedal on until the sound disappears. Those harmonics for me carry so much richness.

So would a better answer for style be "I enjoy blending colours from different sources in order to paint a film with its own specific music"? Or is this too abstract? Anyways, this actually helped, John. Thanks!
Not yet there with the description but I'm happy I've asked it here.


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## musicbyjoao (Oct 13, 2020)

José Herring said:


> I think it's no longer an option. There's so much competition these days.
> 
> When I started composing for film it was slightly pre internet. The only competition I had were Hollywood composers. It was fairly easy to get work believe it or not. And, you could just imitate your favorite successful composer and that was all you really needed. Today that's not the case.
> 
> ...



I completely understand your point of view. Another point of view, however, is that there is so much less options of what unique thing you can be than there are people trying to be it. So the slots are scarce. As you said, we're too many.

We are also in an industry that's made even harder due to the scarce nature of our own work. While in a movie/game you have x actors, x actresses, x cameramen, x animators, x assistants, you only have one composer. This means that you'll need much more luck for the opportunity to fit the niche style you have become an expert on.

However, I do agree with you. I think it's just not a black or white situation. Because I feel there's this online peer pressure of having your own thing going on and that you "need it to be successful in today's world". Though I understand the logic behind it and agree with it, I also thing there is room for the composer who is good at adapting to a project and slowly create its own thing. what I think is missing there is just a good selling answer to "so what do you compose?".


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## musicbyjoao (Oct 14, 2020)

Tice said:


> I've also found that the needs of whomever you're working for are diverse and unpredictable. You end up writing in genres you never thought you would. But I also found that my 'style' isn't as much the genre I tend to write in. It's more that no matter which genre I write in, there are habits or preferences that shine through. I mean, Mozart and Haydn both wrote classical music for the courts. But you can tell a Haydn from a Mozart.
> In my case I'd probably describe my 'style' as very layered and busy, often unpredictable. As though written by a person with a short attention span who wants to keep their mind occupied with lots of things going on at once.



That's a good description. I think that describes the minds of most creatives, specially when under stress of a deadline or at creating budget proposals. Haha


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## musicbyjoao (Oct 14, 2020)

Phil81 said:


> Your answer is not bad at all @musicbyjoao. It simply means you're a business man and you are willing to work with what is pitched/offered to you.
> 
> Style - may come slowly, overnight, or never (none of which is bad). Only you can develop a straight answer for that. Watch Johnny Depp's Letterman interviews on Youtube. He sublimely jokes about some aspects of 'image'.


Thank you, Phil!

Yeah, personally, I'm someone who doesn't wear constantly the same thing or has constantly a grown beard/no beard, if that's what you are referring to. If not, could you tell me which interview?


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## Rodney Money (Oct 14, 2020)

I have always described my sound as “Neo Tonalism” where I use 20th and 21st modern techniques but in a melodic way, so for example I will take 12 tone or set theory and write a composition that even my Mountain man country boy of a daddy would both enjoy and understand.


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## purple (Oct 14, 2020)

I mean, you don't have to stick to just "one style" to be known for being good at certain things. No film composer ever has only one style they wrote in. I think that advice comes from a place of wanting to have a consistent output of what you're good at and what you enjoy. You want people to hire you for whatever kinds of music you like and are the best and most comfortable with doing. Having a certain "sound" also gives you the advantage of clients knowing what to expect from you and being more trustworthy.


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## mscp (Oct 14, 2020)

musicbyjoao said:


> Thank you, Phil!
> 
> Yeah, personally, I'm someone who doesn't wear constantly the same thing or has constantly a grown beard/no beard, if that's what you are referring to. If not, could you tell me which interview?









purple said:


> You want people to hire you for whatever kinds of music you like and are the best and most comfortable with doing. Having a certain "sound" also gives you the advantage of clients knowing what to expect from you and being more trustworthy.



This. ^^
Sometimes people might not know they have a certain sound, but they do, and they will be definitely told by others that they do.


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## musicbyjoao (Oct 15, 2020)

purple said:


> I mean, you don't have to stick to just "one style" to be known for being good at certain things. No film composer ever has only one style they wrote in. I think that advice comes from a place of wanting to have a consistent output of what you're good at and what you enjoy. You want people to hire you for whatever kinds of music you like and are the best and most comfortable with doing. Having a certain "sound" also gives you the advantage of clients knowing what to expect from you and being more trustworthy.


I agree!




Phil81 said:


> This. ^^
> Sometimes people might not know they have a certain sound, but they do, and they will be definitely told by others that they do.


This is the thing I'm trying to determine. As purple wrote, it helps do have a certain "sound". But whenever you are meeting someone for the first time, who doesn't know you and asks "and what kind of music do you compose?".. because I don't really have a 1 or 2 word answer and can't really identify my style that simply (at least just yet), that's why I started this thread. Just something that's been on the back of my mind but have never really discussed it before.

Enjoyed that video! Thanks for sharing it!


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## CGR (Oct 15, 2020)

This is something I've been grappling with for years. "Stay in your lane" or go the Neil Young approach:

_" 'Heart of Gold' put me in the middle of the road. Traveling there soon became a bore so I headed for the ditch."_

I could probably identify a certain sound or style I gravitate towards in my own composing, but I soon get bored with that default so often mix things up and produce music way outside my "style". Today I chose to write a piece using multiple instances of just one 70's era soft synth, a 60's drum machine plugin and some soundbites from 50's UFO films just for the fun of it, and to get myself out of the normal music-making routine. It will most likely never see the light of day (although I did send it to my muso cousin) but the process was valuable and it kept my neurons firing.

Piano is my main instrument, but a few years ago I pitched an eclectic (and what I thought was interesting) collection of some of my music to a UK production music library and the feedback was that it was too sporadic and incohesive. Maybe I should have stuck to the piano stuff for them!


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## musicbyjoao (Nov 3, 2020)

I have updated my website here: www.musicbyjoao.com . Having in mind the discussion on this thread, should I remove music from my audio section to focus more on a style or just leave it as it is?


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## MartinH. (Nov 3, 2020)

musicbyjoao said:


> I have updated my website here: www.musicbyjoao.com . Having in mind the discussion on this thread, should I remove music from my audio section to focus more on a style or just leave it as it is?



I'd put all the audio examples up top so that you don't have to scroll to hear your work.


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## musicbyjoao (Nov 3, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> I'd put all the audio examples up top so that you don't have to scroll to hear your work.


Will do! Thanks for the tip.


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## GNP (Nov 3, 2020)

If you work for multiple different styles of storytelling by different kinds of directors and tellers, then I would say that determines how many different kinds of approaches you would use to each of them. I work with from experimental exhibitions to art films to commercials to feature films, hence that moulds the way I approach them.

I think trying to mould your own style should be unconsciously done, rather than consciously done. If you do it consciously, it could trap you and also prevent you from getting more gigs. It can also make you very paranoid, avoiding this and that and doing this and that, and eventually you're only feeding what your ego needs, and not what the story needs.


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## musicbyjoao (Nov 4, 2020)

GNP said:


> If you work for multiple different styles of storytelling by different kinds of directors and tellers, then I would say that determines how many different kinds of approaches you would use to each of them. I work with from experimental exhibitions to art films to commercials to feature films, hence that moulds the way I approach them.
> 
> I think trying to mould your own style should be unconsciously done, rather than consciously done. If you do it consciously, it could trap you and also prevent you from getting more gigs. It can also make you very paranoid, avoiding this and that and doing this and that, and eventually you're only feeding what your ego needs, and not what the story needs.



Thank you for your answer. Yes, this seems right. It's usually something like a "oh, I really like this" and then "this" becomes part of my composing language as I go. Be it a chord progression, an instrument, a sound...

I haven't done exhibitions but I worked on a theatre play when I started out. Was good fun. I was actually recently approached by someone looking to start a theatre company. We will see where that goes.

I do enjoy keeping things open. It provides a freshness to everything and there is always a challenge to overcome and it makes you think outside the box. However, market wise, I do realize it hinders you a bit. (otherwise everyone would be keeping their options open).


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 4, 2020)

I write anything and everything, no limits.


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## AlexRuger (Nov 4, 2020)

This is a tough question.

I certainly have a "sound," in that no matter what I tend to sound like _me, _but like all composers I need to remain versatile so as to not close too many doors on too many jobs. And besides, one of my fundamental reasons for entering this field was to have the opportunity to write all kinds of music and get to do everything from engaging with and adding to well-defined genres to throwing out any semblance of a template and doing something completely original. The truth is that I really _do _like doing it all and would very much like to avoid being shackled by the golden handcuffs of having "a sound."

On top of that, this career is a bit fickle in that in order to be trusted with doing your own thing, you first need to write for someone else, which by definition requires being extremely versatile -- even to the point of being totally invisible. But of course if you finally _are_ at the point in your career where people _want _to hear "your sound," and you discover that you've spent so much time pretending to be your boss that don't really have a sound and don't have anything to say, you're going to find it extremely hard to be at the wheel of your own career. Instead you'll be at the mercy of those doing the hiring, always trying to convince them that you're the right person for the job -- rather than having people come to you. Many a composer suffer this fate, and it's a tough place to be.

Sometimes, a client wants to hear you define yourself as one of those two extremes. Sometimes they want the person who can do it all and do it extremely well, and other times they want someone whose sound is their calling in life and just so happens to be the perfect fit for their passion project. You can never know what someone wants to hear, and it's hard to really believe in either of those extremes when talking about it because they're both equally true and valid (for me, at least). They're two sides of the same coin, not two different coins.

So, my current way of answering this question is that I'm striving to be a sort of Daniel Day-Lewis in that I give my all to each project, disappear into it, and do my best to kick ass to the highest degree every time. I do what has to be done and focus on the craft. "My sound" is ultimately up to other people to recognize and seek out -- I can't do anything about that. All I can do is choose what to focus on marketing in favor of (the kinds of projects I want to do most), and do as best I can on each gig I'm on.

Daniel Day-Lewis is one of the few people I've seen sort of marry those two extremes in his given field, and while I doubt I'll ever be anywhere _near _as good as him at _anything_ relative to my own field, I think it's a good perspective and way to keep each extreme in check and working with each other rather than against.

Though it can certainly come across as a bit cocky because it seems like a comparison rather than an aspiration, but fuck it.


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## GNP (Nov 4, 2020)

AlexRuger said:


> This is a tough question.
> 
> I certainly have a "sound," in that no matter what I tend to sound like _me, _but like all composers I need to remain versatile so as to not close too many doors on too many jobs. And besides, one of my fundamental reasons for entering this field was to have the opportunity to write all kinds of music and get to do everything from engaging with and adding to well-defined genres to throwing out any semblance of a template and doing something completely original. The truth is that I really _do _like doing it all and would very much like to avoid being shackled by the golden handcuffs of having "a sound."
> 
> On top of that, this career is a bit fickle in that in order to be trusted with doing your own thing, you first need to write for someone else, which by definition requires being extremely versatile -- even to the point of being totally invisible. But of course if you finally _are_ at the point in your career where people _want _to hear "your sound," and you discover that you've spent so much time pretending to be your boss that don't really have a sound and don't have anything to say, you're going to find it extremely hard to be at the wheel of your own career. Instead you'll be at the mercy of those doing the hiring, always trying to convince them that you're the right person for the job -- rather than having people come to you. Many a composer suffer this fate, and it's a tough place to be.



I'm in a market and culture that is rather different; I don't get people asking me for my "sound", they come to me more because of working relationships and recommendations. So I don't really have to sell "my sound" here as much, because of how incredibly diverse my clientele is. But in the end, it's like what they say, *"You can do all kinds of different things, but through all those different things, you somehow sound just like you." *And I really enjoy that.


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## musicbyjoao (Nov 5, 2020)

AlexRuger said:


> This is a tough question.
> 
> I certainly have a "sound," in that no matter what I tend to sound like _me, _but like all composers I need to remain versatile so as to not close too many doors on too many jobs. And besides, one of my fundamental reasons for entering this field was to have the opportunity to write all kinds of music and get to do everything from engaging with and adding to well-defined genres to throwing out any semblance of a template and doing something completely original. The truth is that I really _do _like doing it all and would very much like to avoid being shackled by the golden handcuffs of having "a sound."
> 
> ...


I resonate with everything written here. And that is great - using a comparison to explain it! My question is about what to answer someone rather than me changing or setting rules about what I write and this is very good indeed =)

I usually use comparison and metaphors to describe people stages of work when they aren't really sure what they are. Or even to explain what my musical plans are for a project. But haven't thought about using it to explain how I approach things.

Thank you for answering. I really enjoy reading it.


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