# Ultimate Solo Violin Comparison Thread



## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

Following the great interest in a previous post Ultimate Piano Comparison Thread ... of which we did things not done anywhere else (velocity, agility, Sub A tests).






Ultimate Piano Comparison Thread


Creating a new diversion for myself here and hoping it provides some value to the community. The aim is to create a comprehensive piano comparison using high quality MIDI. Too often demos, don't offer such consistency. It can be hard to tell what to buy. Hopefully people will join up and get...




vi-control.net





I have decided, as conversations on strings are abound, to start one up for the solo violin.

The aim is to create a comprehensive solo violin comparison using representative MIDI. Too often demos, don't offer such consistency. It can be hard to tell what to buy. Hopefully people will join up and get all the big names represented. I have little concern for what is optimal for these libraries - they are all put to the test so to speak.

I have included the used MIDI (by no means perfect) and clear mics, settings for the posted instruments. Please add what you can 

And this type of a review is very different than piano. There are other musicality, programming elements - do please feel free to give input - its very welcome!

Posts will follow shortly.


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

First we start lyrical - legato / vibrato.

_Jean Sibelius - Violin Concerto_ in D minor - Mvmt 2. Adagio di molto in B♭ major, Mm. 6-26

NI - Cremona - Stradivari Violin - Multi Mic

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto - Strad Violin.mp3


NI - Cremona - Stradivari Violin - Close Mic

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto - Strad Violin Close.mp3


NI - Cremona - Guarneri Violin - Multi Mic

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto - Guar Violin.mp3


NI - Cremona - Guarneri Violin - Close Mic

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto - Guar Violin Close.mp3


Aria Sounds - Solo Violin - Default

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto - Aria.mp3


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

_Jean Sibelius - Violin Concerto_ in D minor - Mvmt 2. Adagio di molto in B♭ major, Mm. 6-26

8Dio - Intimate Violin - Poco Vibrato

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto - Intimate Violin.mp3


8Dio - Deep Studio Violin - Poco Vibrato

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto - Deep Violin.mp3


8Dio - Anthology Solo - Mix

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto - Anthology Mixed.mp3


8Dio - Anthology Solo - Close

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto - Anthology Violin.mp3


Embertone - Friedlander Demo Version

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto - Fried Demo.mp3


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

Velocity Test - MIDI 1 - 127 on A

NI - Cremona - Stradivari Violin - Multi Mic

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Velocity Test - Strad Violin.mp3


NI - Cremona - Guarneri Violin - Multi Mic

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Velocity Test - Guarneri Violin.mp3


Aria Sounds - Solo Violin - Default

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Velocity Test - Aria Violin.mp3


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

Velocity Test - MIDI 1 - 127 on A

8Dio - Intimate Violin

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Velocity Test - Intimate Violin.mp3


8Dio - Deep Studio Violin

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Velocity Test - Deep Violin.mp3


8Dio - Anthology Solo - Mix

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Velocity Test - Anthology Violin.mp3


Embertone - Friedlander Demo Version

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Velocity Test - Friedlander Demo Violin.mp3


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

Bach Violin Sonata No. 3 in CM for Solo Violin 1005 - Mvmt. 4 Allegro Assai, MM. 1-32

NI - Cremona - Stradivari Violin - Multi Mic - Virtuoso - Staccato

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Bach Partita - Strad Mixed.mp3


NI - Cremona - Stradivari Violin - Close Mic - Virtuoso - Staccato

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Bach Partita - Strad Close.mp3


NI - Cremona - Guarneri Violin - Multi Mic - Virtuoso - Staccato

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Bach Partita - Guer Multi.mp3


NI - Cremona - Guarneri Violin - Close Mic - Virtuoso - Staccato

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Bach Partita - Guer Close.mp3


Aria Sounds - Solo Violin - Default - Legato - Staccato

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Bach Partita - Aria Violin.mp3


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## doctoremmet (Nov 8, 2021)

Using the same MIDI… I don’t know about this concept. For piano’s… maybe. But this is not going to do the instruments much justice. I firmly subscribe to @ism ‘s circle of sweetspots theory. So I highly doubt how useful this endeavour will be. Of course I applaud the effort and wish the participants good luck


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

Bach Violin Sonata No. 3 in CM for Solo Violin 1005 - Mvmt. 4 Allegro Assai, MM. 1-32

8Dio - Intimate Violin - Poco Vibrato Staccato

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Bach Partita Intimate.mp3


8Dio - Deep Studio Violin - Poco Vibrato Martele Hanging

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Bach Partita Deep Violin Poco Hanging.mp3


8Dio - Anthology Solo - Mix - Legato Spicatto

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Bach Partita Adagio.mp3


Embertone - Friedlander Demo Version (NOTES OUT OF RANGE< NEED FULL) - Legato Stacatto

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Bach Partita - Fried Violin Demo.mp3


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

And the MIDI of what is here so far.


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Using the same MIDI… I don’t know about this concept. For piano’s… maybe. But this is not going to do the instruments much justice. I firmly subscribe to @ism ‘s circle of sweetspots theory. So I highly doubt how useful this endeavour will be. Of course I applaud the effort and wish the participants good luck


I totally understand - and into this project I really started to dislike certain instruments more than I would think considering they can be fun to play. Nonetheless - at the least a cautionary tale - at the most some kind of window into strengths. Maybe I record the MIDI with each individual. Will see.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 8, 2021)

I can already hear some instruments I know getting tortured by the midi haha.  Murder!


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## doctoremmet (Nov 8, 2021)

I didn’t want to spoil the fun though @Rudianos - so apologies!


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I didn’t want to spoil the fun though @Rudianos - so apologies!


nonsense - we share similar thoughts! will work on refinement of process.


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## Pier-V (Nov 8, 2021)

First, thank you @Rudianos for taking the time to put all of this together! I second what doctoremmet said, but I also understand that creating a different midi for every track would probably not be feasible... Maybe a good compromise would be to tell what was the "main" vst, that is the one you used for reference, so we can compare the others better


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## doctoremmet (Nov 8, 2021)

Truth be told, I had a similar concept in mind a while ago and my pal @Sseltenrych was friendly enought to encourage me AND send me a couple of really appropriate MIDI files (for a cello comparison) but a combination of things prevented me from actually creating any good renders that did the instruments justice. Not yet anyway. So I like the concept but along the way I concluded two things: maybe a “comparison” of two instruments doing the same thing isn’t all that useful. And IF you’d want to pull it off, it almost requires playing in the MIDI separately with the instrument “under your fingers” so you get to play the sample to its strengths. AND do appropriate EQ’ing, mixing, dialling in good IRs and other reverbs etc. And in many cases that won’t even work, because the particular piece is not within the “sweetspot bandwidth” of the samples. Anyway, my 2 cents.


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

Pier-V said:


> First, thank you @Rudianos for taking the time to put all of this together! I second what doctoremmet said, but I also understand that creating a different midi for every track would probably not be feasible... Maybe a good compromise would be to tell what was the "main" vst, that is the one you used for reference, so we can compare the others better


Sibelius recorded on Cremona Guarneri and Bach recorded on dry ol' Finale Notation.


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## FireGS (Nov 8, 2021)

Honestly, just listening to the very first note tells you about 90% of what you need to know about each library...


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Honestly, just listening to the very first note tells you about 90% of what you need to know about each library...


its true


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## AMBi (Nov 8, 2021)

Haha nice you beat me to it! 
I was working on a comparison once I maxed out my violin needs this year, but realized how time consuming it would be for me since I tried making unique MIDI for each since some has a significant delay for legato and some needed a lot of key switching and eventually lost patience lol

Mine was only like 30~ second passages so I applaud your commitment!

I'll delete my comment once you start posting more comparisons so I don't take up any thread space so thanks for making this as I know how helpful it is to potential buyers!


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## doctoremmet (Nov 8, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Honestly, just listening to the very first note tells you about 90% of what you need to know about each library...


Of course there is also truth in this ❤️


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## Pier-V (Nov 8, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Honestly, just listening to the very first note tells you about 90% of what you need to know about each library...


If your focus is mainly on timbre and character (which is perfectly legitimate) then you're right. But for someone trying to understand the phrasing capabilities of these instruments in detail this thread is GOLD.


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

AMBi said:


> Haha nice you beat me to it!
> I was working on a comparison once I maxed out my violin needs this year, but realized how time consuming it would be for me since I tried making unique MIDI for each since some has a significant delay for legato and some needed a lot of key switching and eventually lost patience lol
> 
> Mine was only like 30~ second passages so I applaud your commitment!
> ...


keep it on here! let us know when you finish. I may be going 1 MIDI 1 VI route for next round. Lots of recording!


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

Pier-V said:


> If your focus is mainly on timbre and character (which is perfectly legitimate) then you're right. But for someone trying to understand the phrasing capabilities of these instruments in detail this thread is GOLD.


very true!


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## Daniel James (Nov 8, 2021)

You can't have a solo violin comparison without Bohemian Violin! It sounds...suspiciously real 😂

-DJ


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

Daniel James said:


> You can't have a solo violin comparison without Bohemian Violin! It sounds...suspiciously real 😂
> 
> -DJ


take the MIDI its free and make a render


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## TonalDynamics (Nov 8, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Honestly, just listening to the very first note tells you about 90% of what you need to know about each library...


Scary enough, it does kinda be like that.

But Pier-V is also right, it allows you to hear phrasing transitions on a note by note basis with specific techniques, which is very useful in its own right.

I wish this thread had EVERY solo violin VST in existence.

Then I'd be happy.

Maybe.


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

TonalDynamics said:


> Scary enough, it does kinda be like that.
> 
> But Pier-V is also right, it allows you to hear phrasing transitions on a note by note basis with specific techniques, which is very useful in its own right.
> 
> ...


we'll make every attempt to  had a pretty good turnout with the piano one hopefully people step up and get some renders.


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## Petrucci (Nov 8, 2021)

Honestly while such a comparison would be Very useful, I believe it's really hard to make a fair one unless one puts an effort and plays the line exclusively for each instrument already knowing its strength and weakness, keyswitches, CCs etc.


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## FireGS (Nov 8, 2021)

Petrucci said:


> Honestly while such a comparison would be Very useful, I believe it's really hard to make a fair one unless one puts an effort and plays the line exclusively for each instrument already knowing its strength and weakness, keyswitches, CCs etc.


Exactly this. These comparisons are *only* useful for tone. If you think these MIDI copies are the absolute best that each of them *can* sound, you'll be either sad or happy when you buy them and find out. And then you're basically at a 50-50 chance of either liking it or not. 



Pier-V said:


> If your focus is mainly on timbre and character (which is perfectly legitimate) then you're right. But for someone trying to understand the phrasing capabilities of these instruments in detail this thread is GOLD.





TonalDynamics said:


> But Pier-V is also right, it allows you to hear phrasing transitions on a note by note basis with specific techniques, which is very useful in its own right.


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## Polkasound (Nov 8, 2021)

Petrucci said:


> Honestly while such a comparison would be Very useful, I believe it's really hard to make a fair one unless one puts an effort and plays the line exclusively for each instrument already knowing its strength and weakness, keyswitches, CCs etc.


Yes. I think the most fair way to provide a comparison with libraries is to give a midi file to each developer and say, "Put your best man on it." Each developer will then massage the best possible performance out of their own library, and the result will be a comparison of what each library is capable of.


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## rMancer (Nov 8, 2021)

Even then, I'm not sure it's entirely fair if you are using the same song/composition to compare. Besides MIDI/programming sweet spots, you're going to have "musical" sweet spots as well.

For instance, there's probably going to be a lot of material Embertone Joshua Bell Violin struggles with, even with top notch programming. But that doesn't mean it's a bad VI by any means. But when presented with a round hole, its exquisite square-peg-ness will be exaggerated.


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## Polkasound (Nov 8, 2021)

rMancer said:


> Even then, I'm not sure it's entirely fair if you are using the same song/composition to compare.


The MIDI file would need to have a mix of everything, from slow lyrical phrases to fast runs, so that each library would be given the opportunity to shine where it's intended to shine.


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## Jrettetsoh (Nov 8, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Honestly, just listening to the very first note tells you about 90% of what you need to know about each library...


Yes, exactly, so how about, rather than a complex piece of midi that either ‘murders‘ the vi or tortures the programmer/player of each one:

Just describe a simple pattern that anyone can quickly perform or program in a way that fits the vi; and specify a bpm that surely any vi could work in.

For example,
At least:
have everyone do a simple 3 note run from lowest C to near E to next C, at 90 bpm. Boom finished. Easy to compare tone and flow (eg, legato).

At most:
have everyone do a 3 note arpeggio (eg, C E G C E G…) from the lowest note surely all have, on up to as high as the vi goes. Everyone does it at 90 bpm, but also at a slow speed and fast speed that still work for their vi, and also at a slow n fast speed that don’t work. This way we can easily discover n compare tone, range, flow, and its limits. I think this would also be sufficient for inferring it’s phrase capabilities.

This is information I wish demoes would provide.


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## odod (Nov 8, 2021)

where's the SWAM?


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## Artemi (Nov 8, 2021)

Hello!

Considering that I've played with a real violin player for many years all the libraries I've heard sound fake. From the first notes... And I'm not talking about the examples in this thread. I've heard lots of them.  

When the vibrato comes in it all sound the same, the vibrato doesn't sound like that, and doesn't have those abrupt transitions.

The one that comes close is Bohemian Violin, but it can also sound fake if played uncorrectly.
The one that I think have the real violin tone is
https://www.performancesamples.com/sots-soloviolin-a/​
The transitions are there, the vibrato is good, but it lacks articulations, and it has only 1 dynamic layer.
But I personally think it's the one and only violin library when it comes to realism..

p.s. and it's on sale right now  

Thanks for reading =)



p.p.s. the shorts from spitfire solo library sound really authentic btw.


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## Pier-V (Nov 8, 2021)

@Artemi Oh wow, how did I miss that? I'm listening through bad speakers right now, and yet I can easily tell this Vst has an amazing uniformity formant-wise. And the "sobbings" and "hiccups" are nearly absent. Thanks for pointing this one out.


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

Jrettetsoh said:


> Yes, exactly, so how about, rather than a complex piece of midi that either ‘murders‘ the vi or tortures the programmer/player of each one:
> 
> Just describe a simple pattern that anyone can quickly perform or program in a way that fits the vi; and specify a bpm that surely any vi could work in.
> 
> ...


I hear your request


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## muziksculp (Nov 8, 2021)

@Artemi,

Thanks for the heads up on the PS sale of the solo violins. 

Performance Samples has Solos of the sea Violin A on sale ($59), and Violin B ($39).

Both sound very good.

VLN A is more bowed legato, VLN B is slurred legato, with portamento.

Which one would you choose A or B if you had to pick one ?

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Artemi (Nov 8, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> @Artemi,
> 
> Thanks for the heads up on the PS sale of the solo violins.
> 
> ...


hey @muziksculp

I like the Violin A because it has a more natural vibrato, whereas Violin B has a heavy vibrato which could work more for dramatic moments.
Here is a nice comparison of both libraries from Don Bodin



Violin A example starts from 07:57


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## muziksculp (Nov 8, 2021)

@Artemi,

I listened to both A, and B, I find B the type of solo violin playing that has its moments, but I find it a bit more limited in scope, or general usage compared to A. I guess the easy decision is to get both, but for a more versatile use, I would pick A. 

Now, do I need to buy more string libraries ? 

LOL.. just joking. I might pick A. Given the sale is on until Nov. 11th. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## Pier-V (Nov 8, 2021)

I know already this is wishful thinking, but I'm asking nonetheless (let me dream! ): do you think there's any chance to use them together as one single instrument? With some clever programming?


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## Werty (Nov 9, 2021)

Artemi said:


> Hello!
> 
> Considering that I've played with a real violin player for many years all the libraries I've heard sound fake. From the first notes... And I'm not talking about the examples in this thread. I've heard lots of them.
> 
> ...



Solos of the Sea it's not recent, but again it shows the talent of Jasper Blunk. The title of the thread should be "Let's make an ultimate thread without the best vst in the hope that I am going to sell more Cremona violins" (kidding).


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## Artemi (Nov 9, 2021)

Pier-V said:


> I know already this is wishful thinking, but I'm asking nonetheless (let me dream! ): do you think there's any chance to use them together as one single instrument? With some clever programming?


I've asked about that somewhere, don't quite remember where it was...
The answer was that if the passage is not too exposed it may work, but they have a different stereo image, so maybe that could be tweaked a bit to match each other.

If you ask me they sound pretty similar, but then again can't say more because I don't have them both.


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## Rob (Nov 9, 2021)

just for fun, here's the Bach sonata with a violin that I will reveal only later, see if you can recognize it... there are some wrong notes there, who cares

View attachment Partita_in_C.mp3


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## muziksculp (Nov 9, 2021)

Rob said:


> just for fun, here's the Bach sonata with a violin that I will reveal only later, see if you can recognize it... there are some wrong notes there, who cares
> 
> View attachment Partita_in_C.mp3


Maybe related to 8dio violin ?


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## Rob (Nov 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Maybe related to 8dio violin ?


Nope


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## Pier-V (Nov 9, 2021)

Risking my (absolutely nonexistant) credibility here lol.... I'll try, just as if it was game: I've never used VSL solo strings, but to me there's their signature in the phrasing. Nice mockup by the way!


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## Rob (Nov 9, 2021)

Pier-V said:


> Risking my (absolutely nonexistant) credibility here lol.... I'll try, just as if it was game: I've never used VSL solo strings, but to me there's their signature in the phrasing. Nice mockup by the way!


No, not vsl


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## muziksculp (Nov 9, 2021)

How about Performance Samples Violin A, I don't have it, but just a wild guess.

I notice that there aren't that many dynamics to the sound, especially the attacks sound kind of similar. so it might be a violin that has few dynamics, it surely is not VSL.


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## Rob (Nov 9, 2021)

Correct observations, but no


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## Pier-V (Nov 9, 2021)

Cremona! :D
I'm listening to some demos on NI site right now and I've noticed some similiarities in the timbre of the staccatos


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## Rob (Nov 9, 2021)

hehe no, timbre is more round, and has a better hall


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## muddle (Nov 9, 2021)

Rob said:


> just for fun, here's the Bach sonata with a violin that I will reveal only later, see if you can recognize it... there are some wrong notes there, who cares
> 
> View attachment Partita_in_C.mp3





muziksculp said:


> Maybe related to 8dio violin ?


Yes, that's a bit better. It seems to me that the first partita tests are using an unsuitable articulation for such a piece. I just tried with the Hein Italian violin with short articulations and head note, and the result is much more taut and suitable. Surely the cremona instruments can do better than this?

muddle


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## muziksculp (Nov 9, 2021)

Any prize for guessing right ?


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## bill5 (Nov 9, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I concluded two things: maybe a “comparison” of two instruments doing the same thing isn’t all that useful. And IF you’d want to pull it off, it almost requires playing in the MIDI separately with the instrument “under your fingers” so you get to play the sample to its strengths. AND do appropriate EQ’ing, mixing, dialling in good IRs and other reverbs etc. And in many cases that won’t even work, because the particular piece is not within the “sweetspot bandwidth” of the samples. Anyway, my 2 cents.


Offhand I disagree...IMO that would be the most useful of all, although I think you'd need to do several diff kinds of tunes to hear pros and cons of each. But IMO that's the only real way to hear the diff's and how much each does or does not excel in various ways. Apples to apples.

Regardless, the effort is appreciated!


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## Zanshin (Nov 9, 2021)

Nocturne?


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## Rob (Nov 9, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Nocturne?


 no


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## muziksculp (Nov 9, 2021)

Is it a free library ?


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## Rob (Nov 9, 2021)

No, and I bet you have it…


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## Rob (Nov 9, 2021)

It’s got eight round robins


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## muziksculp (Nov 9, 2021)

I'm certain It's not OT First Chair Violin 1 or 2 .


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## bill5 (Nov 9, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> Yes. I think the most fair way to provide a comparison with libraries is to give a midi file to each developer and say, "Put your best man on it." Each developer will then massage the best possible performance out of their own library, and the result will be a comparison of what each library is capable of.





rMancer said:


> Even then, I'm not sure it's entirely fair if you are using the same song/composition to compare. Besides MIDI/programming sweet spots, you're going to have "musical" sweet spots as well.
> 
> For instance, there's probably going to be a lot of material Embertone Joshua Bell Violin struggles with, even with top notch programming. But that doesn't mean it's a bad VI by any means. But when presented with a round hole, its exquisite square-peg-ness will be exaggerated.


I guess I'll stand on a one-man island and wait for the bombshells to fall.  That's exactly what I wouldn't want. I know that in capable hands and with lots of massaging, ANY of these VIs can sound great. That'd be like having a contest to see which spaghetti sauce is best but you let each one doctor their submission up before it's tasted. I want to know how they sound straight out of the box, because it could give me an idea how much massaging I'll need to do and where those sweet spots are (or aren't), etc.


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## Rob (Nov 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I'm certain It's not OT First Chair Violin 1 or 2 .


No actually


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## muziksculp (Nov 9, 2021)

Rob said:


> No actually


You mean it is one of them ? or No. ?


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## Rob (Nov 9, 2021)

No, not OT… from now on I can only look if there are replies, but can’t reply myself. I will post the name tomorrow. I’m a bit surprised because I thought it was an easy test…


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## Alchemedia (Nov 9, 2021)

It's obviously a real Stradivarius! What did I win?


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## muziksculp (Nov 9, 2021)

Rob said:


> No, not OT… from now on I can only look if there are replies, but can’t reply myself. I will post the name tomorrow. I’m a bit surprised because I thought it was an easy test…


OK. Thanks, given there are so many solo violin libraries out there It's not going to be easy to guess this one. Now, you got me thinking about it, when I have other things to take care of.  

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Thundercat (Nov 9, 2021)

Pier-V said:


> If your focus is mainly on timbre and character (which is perfectly legitimate) then you're right. But for someone trying to understand the phrasing capabilities of these instruments in detail this thread is GOLD.


Not to be unkind, but actually, no, it's not. 

The phrasing is so dependent on how the instrument is played, it's crazy. I absolutely adore the Cinesamples Sonore trumpet. But when I don't get the midi right, it sounds synthy and just bad. When I do get it right, it sounds like a real trumpet.

So as has been stated, to do this justice each fragment would have needed to be redone for each library.

But I must also concur with the 90% comment on tone. Thx for sharing.


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## timbit2006 (Nov 9, 2021)

Rob said:


> just for fun, here's the Bach sonata with a violin that I will reveal only later, see if you can recognize it... there are some wrong notes there, who cares
> 
> View attachment Partita_in_C.mp3


KFL


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## muziksculp (Nov 9, 2021)

timbit2006 said:


> KFL


What's that ?


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## bill5 (Nov 9, 2021)

Kentucky Fried Lamb?

Please, English


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## muziksculp (Nov 9, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Kentucky Fried Lamb?
> 
> Please, English


Funny, I instantly thought of KFC when I read the abbrev.


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## Polkasound (Nov 9, 2021)

bill5 said:


> I guess I'll stand on a one-man island and wait for the bombshells to fall.  That's exactly what I wouldn't want. I know that in capable hands and with lots of massaging, ANY of these VIs can sound great. That'd be like having a contest to see which spaghetti sauce is best but you let each one doctor their submission up before it's tasted. I want to know how they sound straight out of the box, because it could give me an idea how much massaging I'll need to do and where those sweet spots are (or aren't), etc.


That's a very understandable point. Personally, I'm more interested in the pinnacle of what a library can achieve in capable hands. I automatically assume a good performance is going to take plenty of work. Doing the work and trying to replicate the excellence of a professional demo is how I learn and improve my skills.

I don't like the spaghetti sauce tasting analogy because adding herbs and spices would be the equivalent of altering the samples themselves. But if the contest were about which spaghetti sauce looks the best, I reckon each sauce maker would hire a professional photographer.


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## bill5 (Nov 9, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> That's a very understandable point. Personally, I'm more interested in the pinnacle of what a library can achieve in capable hands. I automatically assume a good performance is going to take plenty of work. Doing the work and trying to replicate the excellence of a professional demo is how I learn and improve my skills.


Also understandable. In an ideal world, I think it would be great to have both: something where the exact same track(s) are used for each diff VI with little to no massaging and one where they've been worked on a lot.


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## timbit2006 (Nov 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> What's that ?


Kentucky Fried Legato


----------



## Nigel Andreola (Nov 9, 2021)

Bach Violin Sonata No. 3 in CM for Solo Violin 1005 - Mvmt. 4 Allegro Assai, MM. 1-32
View attachment Bach Violin Sonata.mp3

I dropped the provided midi file into an instrument track and loaded...


Spoiler: Click here to see what violin this is.



the Embertone Joshua Bell Violin.


 Here it is strait out of the box with the default patch and all the default settings. I left my fader at 0db so the instrument is playing at its default volume.


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## muziksculp (Nov 9, 2021)

timbit2006 said:


> Kentucky Fried Legato


That did cross my mind too.


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## Nigel Andreola (Nov 9, 2021)

Rob said:


> just for fun, here's the Bach sonata with a violin that I will reveal only later, see if you can recognize it... there are some wrong notes there, who cares
> 
> View attachment Partita_in_C.mp3


Is it the Friedlander Violin?


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## HM_Music (Nov 9, 2021)

Unlike the piano midi information doesn't work as well for comparison but I decided to post it anyway.
I don't like the Uvi player and I still haven't figured out the violin controls, but still.

_Jean Sibelius - Violin Concerto_ in D minor...

*Virharmonic *- 0 reverb
View attachment virhar.mp3




also personally for me it is very difficult to evaluate such a library out of context, it would be nice to have some mp3 file into which you could put this violin


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## timbit2006 (Nov 9, 2021)

How about this one


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## fan455 (Nov 9, 2021)

@Rudianos Hi Rudianos, I just finished recording the melody of the well-known song Music of the Night with my midi keyboard. Theoretically, this single melody midi can be played on any solo instruments including violins. But I don't know how to write automation curves for orchestral libraries. Below are the melody midi file and the piano accompaniment midi file (sync-ed, bpm=120). In the melody midi the dynamics are controlled by velocity and no other automation information. The notes are automatically made legato. No quantization applied. Would it be possible you add some automation to it or make some rectification so it could be played on solo strings or solo woodwinds? Thanks!


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## Rudianos (Nov 9, 2021)

HM_Music said:


> Unlike the piano midi information doesn't work as well for comparison but I decided to post it anyway.
> I don't like the Uvi player and I still haven't figured out the violin controls, but still.
> 
> _Jean Sibelius - Violin Concerto_ in D minor...
> ...


thanks for the post - will see if I can find a Sibelius without the Solo part for MP3 - or I guess record one aha


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## Rudianos (Nov 9, 2021)

Nigel Andreola said:


> Bach Violin Sonata No. 3 in CM for Solo Violin 1005 - Mvmt. 4 Allegro Assai, MM. 1-32
> View attachment Bach Violin Sonata.mp3
> 
> I dropped the provided midi file into an instrument track and loaded...
> ...


thanks for the wonderful submission! Joshua Bell - very nice tone. I separated the MIDI to allow for some staccato accents, I was finding the Cremona legato not providing enough flair on their own. The legato on this one has very different physics. Compelling black friday list


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## Rudianos (Nov 9, 2021)

timbit2006 said:


> How about this one


ohhhhhh dont leave me guessing???! anyone?


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## Bollen (Nov 9, 2021)

Rob said:


> just for fun, here's the Bach sonata with a violin that I will reveal only later, see if you can recognize it... there are some wrong notes there, who cares
> 
> View attachment Partita_in_C.mp3


This sound like CH to me... Mostly because of the awful legato... If it turns out to be one of the modelled instruments I'll jump off the balcony!


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## Rudianos (Nov 9, 2021)

bill5 said:


> I guess I'll stand on a one-man island and wait for the bombshells to fall.  That's exactly what I wouldn't want. I know that in capable hands and with lots of massaging, ANY of these VIs can sound great. That'd be like having a contest to see which spaghetti sauce is best but you let each one doctor their submission up before it's tasted. I want to know how they sound straight out of the box, because it could give me an idea how much massaging I'll need to do and where those sweet spots are (or aren't), etc.


that is a good point - and I think an aim here can meet that. To get the personality out of the box has value. Optimally played - well has merits. I was recording for half the day a 4 measure lick. Some of my violins just cannot handle lyrical. But disco yes. More to follow. Keep suggesting!


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## Rudianos (Nov 9, 2021)

Rob said:


> just for fun, here's the Bach sonata with a violin that I will reveal only later, see if you can recognize it... there are some wrong notes there, who cares
> 
> View attachment Partita_in_C.mp3


Cinestrings Solo?


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## Rudianos (Nov 9, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> That's a very understandable point. Personally, I'm more interested in the pinnacle of what a library can achieve in capable hands. I automatically assume a good performance is going to take plenty of work. Doing the work and trying to replicate the excellence of a professional demo is how I learn and improve my skills.
> 
> I don't like the spaghetti sauce tasting analogy because adding herbs and spices would be the equivalent of altering the samples themselves. But if the contest were about which spaghetti sauce looks the best, I reckon each sauce maker would hire a professional photographer.


That's a good point. And I hope we can achieve some of that here. Thanks for the insights!


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## Rudianos (Nov 9, 2021)

fan455 said:


> @Rudianos Hi Rudianos, I just finished recording the melody of the well-known song Music of the Night with my midi keyboard. Theoretically, this single melody midi can be played on any solo instruments including violins. But I don't know how to write automation curves for orchestral libraries. Below are the melody midi file and the piano accompaniment midi file (sync-ed, bpm=120). In the melody midi the dynamics are controlled by velocity and no other automation information. The notes are automatically made legato. No quantization applied. Would it be possible you add some automation to it or make some rectification so it could be played on solo strings or solo woodwinds? Thanks!


Im on it!


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## Pier-V (Nov 9, 2021)

Thundercat said:


> Not to be unkind, but actually, no, it's not.
> 
> The phrasing is so dependent on how the instrument is played, it's crazy. I absolutely adore the Cinesamples Sonore trumpet. But when I don't get the midi right, it sounds synthy and just bad. When I do get it right, it sounds like a real trumpet.
> 
> ...


You're not being unkind at all, I actually enjoy criticism a lot when it's constructive.

I agree on the fact that performance/midi editing is at the core of good phrasing. In fact, to me, phrasing isn't about having a good quality or huge set of samples, but rather about _hearing a line in your head as if it was speech, then associating different phonemes to different articulations: _as long as you choose the right vowels and syllable pairings, a line should always sound musical (I also admit my language is very different from English and helps a bit more in that *specific* regard).

And of course custom MIDI for different vsts would make a huge difference. However, that would be VERY time consuming: I think what the OP has done until now is already more than enough to be called useful, and luckily we can compensate for the unavoidable misuses deriving from a single midi either by downloading the MIDIs ourselves and studying how the libraries react to a given input or simply trying to imagine how that raw material would sound in our hands. In the "worst case scenario", we can still give our own contribution, as some users have kindly started doing.

It's not perfect by any means, but just two days ago we didn't even have the possibility to choose!


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## Rudianos (Nov 9, 2021)

@fan455​
Here is a draft. Modified MIDI included with Vibrato on 2 and Dynamics on 1. So if others want to put their violins to the test of the night. Enjoy!

The Music of the Night - Andrew Lloyd Weber

Special thanks to fan455 for providing his recording for automation and rendering.

All Tracks - Altiverb Teldex 30% Wet - 24 MS Delay w/ Vienna Imperial Close

NI - Cremona Guarneri Violin Mix Mic

View attachment Music of the Night - Nodes to MIDI - Guar 2.mp3


NI - Cremona Guarneri Violin Close Mic

View attachment Music of the Night - Nodes to MIDI - Guar 2 Close.mp3


NI - Cremona Stradivarius - Violin Mix Mic

View attachment Music of the Night - Nodes to MIDI - Strad 2.mp3


NI - Cremona Stradivarius - Violin Close Mic

View attachment Music of the Night - Nodes to MIDI - Strad 2 Close.mp3


Aria Sounds - Solo Violin - Default (MIDI notes shortened 10%, bizarre legato)

View attachment Music of the Night - Nodes to MIDI - Aria - Reduced.mp3


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## Rudianos (Nov 9, 2021)

The Music of the Night - Andrew Lloyd Weber

8Dio - Intimate Violin - Default Legato (Boosted +30)

View attachment Music of the Night - Nodes to MIDI - Intimate - Boosted 30 Compressor.mp3


8Dio - Deep Studio Violin - Molto Vibrato (Boosted +30)

View attachment Music of the Night - Nodes to MIDI - Deep - Boosted 30 Compressor.mp3


8Dio - Anthology Solo - Mix

View attachment Music of the Night - Nodes to MIDI - Adagio Mixed.mp3


8Dio - Anthology Solo - Close

View attachment Music of the Night - Nodes to MIDI - Adagio Close.mp3


MIDI is below


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## Rudianos (Nov 9, 2021)

Applying some more finesse on these MIDI adaptations indicated above - but minimum displacement of original library. 8dio is something ahem unique at lower velocities. But sure sings up high! Just wait for the short articulation posts.


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## HM_Music (Nov 10, 2021)

Huh actually I wanted to sell this library and wished I could, but after this thread I took a different look. The only thing is that the juvie player is terrible at this kind of stuff, uncomfortable and intuitive, I hope the new player on which virharmonic products will work will be convenient.

The Music of the Night - Andrew Lloyd Weber

Virharmonic + TrueKeys American + Lexicon Random Hall 30% 25ms delay
View attachment VirharmonMusic of the Night.mp3


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## Rob (Nov 10, 2021)

timbit2006 said:


> KFL


haha no, not Kontakt Factory


----------



## Rob (Nov 10, 2021)

Nigel Andreola said:


> Is it the Friedlander Violin?


nope


----------



## Rob (Nov 10, 2021)

Bollen said:


> This sound like CH to me... Mostly because of the awful legato... If it turns out to be one of the modelled instruments I'll jump off the balcony!


no legato, it's martelé all the way


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## Rob (Nov 10, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> Cinestrings Solo?


no Rudianos, it was the old EWQLSO solo violin martelé up/dwn. Still a great sound if you ask me...


----------



## Petrucci (Nov 10, 2021)

Rob said:


> no Rudianos, it was the old EWQLSO solo violin martelé up/dwn. Still a great sound if you ask me...



EWQLSO truly stands a test of time..!


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## fan455 (Nov 10, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> @fan455​
> Here is a draft. Modified MIDI included with Vibrato on 2 and Dynamics on 1. So if others want to put their violins to the test of the night. Enjoy!
> 
> The Music of the Night - Andrew Lloyd Weber
> ...


Thank you so much Rudianos! We just enjoy the music and it's free. Your adaptation is fantastic! The 8Dio - Anthology Solo - Mix is my favorite! So you also mixed it with the piano part. Maybe the piano could sound louder. And the melody midi track could be moved a little forward to offset the delay.

I just found some wrong notes and beats I didn't notice when I was editing (Sorry for the slipup). If you wish you may correct them:
1:27, 2:47 and 4:05 ...the music of the night. Upsize "of" and downsize "the" to make them equally long.
3:20 See below's image.






Here's another version of the piano part rendered with Light and Sound Concert Grand. I made it a little bit ambient to better fuse with the mix. You can also use it to accompany the melody.


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## timbit2006 (Nov 10, 2021)

Rob said:


> no Rudianos, it was the old EWQLSO solo violin martelé up/dwn. Still a great sound if you ask me...


I was partially joking with KFL especially since you mentioned the 8RR bit and nobody will believe me anyways but... Symphony Orchestra was legitimately what I was thinking if I responded seriously. I don't actually have the library yet but have listened to a lot of demos recently, I think I'll be getting it during the current sale.
Did you do much CC work on your demo?


----------



## Rob (Nov 10, 2021)

timbit2006 said:


> I was partially joking with KFL especially since you mentioned the 8RR bit and nobody will believe me anyways but... Symphony Orchestra was legitimately what I was thinking if I responded seriously. I don't actually have the library yet but have listened to a lot of demos recently, I think I'll be getting it during the current sale.
> Did you do much CC work on your demo?


somehow I knew you were thinking ewqlso, don't know why... I do believe that, the absence of legato notwithstanding, that is still a beautifully sampled orchestra. As for cc, no... I just played it (slowed down) while giving some shape to overall volume with my akai usb. I could have refined it but for the sake of this thread I thought that was enough...


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## Werty (Nov 10, 2021)

Rob said:


> no Rudianos, it was the old EWQLSO solo violin martelé up/dwn. Still a great sound if you ask me...


wow


----------



## Bollen (Nov 10, 2021)

Rob said:


> no Rudianos, it was the old EWQLSO solo violin martelé up/dwn. Still a great sound if you ask me...


Ah that explains! Haven't used it in years... I'd forgotten how awful it is...


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## Robert_G (Nov 10, 2021)

This thread is useless without Emotional Violin from Best Service considering it is hands down the most comprehensive solo violin on the market.


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## Nigel Andreola (Nov 10, 2021)

Robert_G said:


> This thread is useless without Emotional Violin from Best Service considering it is hands down the most comprehensive solo violin on the market.


I agree. It does take some work with lots of keyswitching and utilizing CC lanes, but in the end it is worth it! I think the Joshua Bell violin is more playable on a keyboard, but the Emotional Violin is more controllable and versatile with different styles. I'm excited to see some of the options that make the Emotional Violin great being incorporated into Tokyo Scoring Strings!


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## Rudianos (Nov 10, 2021)

Robert_G said:


> This thread is useless without Emotional Violin from Best Service considering it is hands down the most comprehensive solo violin on the market.


ahaha - we need submissions - Emotional Cinestrings OT Vienna - and many more. Looking forward to hearing from others.


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## Vangance (Nov 10, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> ahaha - we need submissions - Emotional Cinestrings OT Vienna - and many more. Looking forward to hearing from others.


Here's a snippet of emotional violin. Yes it's not an out of the box barebones example, but it gets my vote everytime, probably because it actually sounds like a violin!!


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## Robert_G (Nov 10, 2021)

Vangance said:


> Here's a snippet of emotional violin. Yes it's not an out of the box barebones example, but it gets my vote everytime, probably because it actually sounds like a violin!!


That is fantastic. I haven't been able to produce anything that nice out of it yet, but I know what it's capable of and your piece is a good example of that.

What other instruments did you use with it?


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## Robert_G (Nov 10, 2021)

Vangance said:


> Here's a snippet of emotional violin. Yes it's not an out of the box barebones example, but it gets my vote everytime, probably because it actually sounds like a violin!!


What else have you made with it?


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## zwhita (Nov 10, 2021)

Music of the Night for Cinesamples Solo Violin 1 & 2:


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## Rudianos (Nov 10, 2021)

Vangance said:


> Here's a snippet of emotional violin. Yes it's not an out of the box barebones example, but it gets my vote everytime, probably because it actually sounds like a violin!!


I love it! care to submit the MIDI? I will re record with all other violins individually to make comparison. And what processing is in that?


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Nov 10, 2021)

Rob said:


> It’s got eight round robins


Is it The Fiddle? Pr CH Solo Violin? edited: Wow did not expect that result.


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## Vangance (Nov 11, 2021)

Robert_G said:


> That is fantastic. I haven't been able to produce anything that nice out of it yet, but I know what it's capable of and your piece is a good example of that.
> 
> What other instruments did you use with it?


Strings are a mix of vsl appassionatas from SE2, along with CSS. They layer very well, not actually that different in timbre if you tame the vib on CSS to soften the 'cinematicness' of them. Everything else in there is just vsl SE1.....


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## muziksculp (Nov 11, 2021)

Rob said:


> no Rudianos, it was the old EWQLSO solo violin martelé up/dwn. Still a great sound if you ask me...


LOL.. I just installed EWQLSO in the OPUS Player yesterday. Purchased ages ago, but never used it, finally I'm getting to enjoy it using the OPUS player, I started by checking the Perc. and they sound fantastic. I will check the solo violin, and the rest of the library. I would have never guessed this one. 

Thanks


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## fan455 (Nov 11, 2021)

Andrew Lloyd Webber - Music of the Night

Performance Samples - Solos of the Sea Violin A

Violin solo:

View attachment solos of the sea violin A solo.mp3


Mixed with Splash Sound - Gentle Keys:

View attachment solos of the sea violin A mix.mp3







And a modified melody midi. No changes applied to automation, only adapted some notes' pitch, velocity and duration.


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## Rob (Nov 11, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> LOL.. I just installed EWQLSO in the OPUS Player yesterday. Purchased ages ago, but never used it, finally I'm getting to enjoy it using the OPUS player, I started by checking the Perc. and they sound fantastic. I will check the solo violin, and the rest of the library. I would have never guessed this one.
> 
> Thanks


I'm waiting for Octopus to be available to common users to check the playability of old ewqlso


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## muziksculp (Nov 11, 2021)

Rob said:


> I'm waiting for Octopus to be available to common users to check the playability of old ewqlso


Octopus ? What's that.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Nov 11, 2021)

fan455 said:


> Andrew Lloyd Webber - Music of the Night
> 
> Performance Samples - Solos of the Sea Violin A
> 
> ...


Solos of the Sea is a legato instrument and you play the peice without connecting a single note?


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## muziksculp (Nov 11, 2021)

Rob said:


> I'm waiting for Octopus to be available to common users to check the playability of old ewqlso


If you mean their OPUS Player, it works perfectly well with the old EWQLSO Plat. and with their older libraries as well, like Silk, RA, Goliath, SD2, SD3, ..etc.


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## fan455 (Nov 11, 2021)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Solos of the Sea is a legato instrument and you play the peice without connecting a single note?


Oh, I need to do that later.


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## fan455 (Nov 11, 2021)

And which violin libraries do you know have more than 3 dynamic layers? And more than 5?


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## fan455 (Nov 11, 2021)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Solos of the Sea is a legato instrument and you play the peice without connecting a single note?


It seems Solos of the Sea Violin A has a limited legato (The library is less than 200M). The legato button was already on and it seemed that's as much legato as Violin A was able to perform.
As a comparison, you may watch this video by Mr Nathan David Carlton. You may prefer Solos of the Sea Violin B for more extended legato. 



Here are the screenshots of the midi. Just let me know if there's anything wrong so I can refine it!


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Nov 11, 2021)

fan455 said:


> It seems Solos of the Sea Violin A has a limited legato (The library is less than 200M). The legato button was already on and it seemed that's as much legato as Violin A was able to perform.
> As a comparison, you may watch this video by Mr Nathan David Carlton. You may prefer Solos of the Sea Violin B for more extended legato.
> 
> 
> ...



The notes need to overlap so the legato samples are triggered. Trust me, Solos of the Sea Violin A and B is all about legatos. It virtually does nothing else. Might not be ideal for this part tho.


----------



## fan455 (Nov 11, 2021)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> The notes need to overlap so the legato samples are triggered. Trust me, Solos of the Sea Violin A and B is all about legatos. It virtually does nothing else. Might not be ideal for this part tho.


What an ingenious technique! I'll follow your suggestion.


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## Tralen (Nov 11, 2021)

fan455 said:


> What a ingenious technique! I'll follow your suggestion.


I don't know if you are just being humorous, but just to be sure you know that this technique is common place.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Nov 11, 2021)

fan455 said:


> What an ingenious technique! I'll follow your suggestion.


You're gonna love your library now. This is a great one. Like Tralen said, this is standard practice with virtual instrument with legatos. But some do not require to overlap but i think that's rare.


----------



## fan455 (Nov 11, 2021)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> You're gonna love your library now. This is a great one. Like Tralen said, this is standard practice with virtual instrument with legatos. But some do not require to overlap but i think that's rare.


But is it possible to play legato between two identical notes (same pitch)?


----------



## Rudianos (Nov 11, 2021)

fan455 said:


> But is it possible to play legato between two identical notes (same pitch)?


IDK about that library but some do allow that. Speaking of which in these demos I am learning every library wants a different amount of overlap to be happy. Some no overlap - some much. IDK if that is ever in the instruction manual, not that I would be reading that.


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## Remnant (Nov 11, 2021)

Taylor Davis is a little under rated. It has a nice character and good legato transitions. It can be a little harsh but that is easy to EQ out. Also, the baked in vibrato comes on a little quick, but some reverb seems to tame that as well. It fills a nice space of still being a violin but having a little extra Americana type character.


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## fan455 (Nov 11, 2021)

Here're the legato midi and render. Thank you Rudianos for automating the midi! And thank you Obi Wan Spaghetti for helping with legato programming!

Andrew Lloyd Webber - Music of the Night

Performance Samples - Solos of the Sea Violin A

Solo:

View attachment motn violin A solo.mp3


Mixed with Splashed Sounds - Gentle Keys

View attachment motn violin A mix.mp3


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## Rudianos (Nov 11, 2021)

_Jean Sibelius - Violin Concerto_ in D minor - Mvmt 2. Adagio di molto in B♭ major, Mm. 6-26

Some Interesting Violins here. Each capture a lot of musicality in their own way. With some tweaking not at all unlike some of the Live Sibelius Concertos I have heard.

Indiginus - Fiddle - Dry Default Mic - Teldex 30% 24ms

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto The Fiddle.mp3


Strezov - Balkan Ethnic - Romantic Gypsy Violin- Close Mic - Teldex 30% 24ms

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto Gypsy.mp3


Insanity Samples - Folk Fiddle Beatnik Roots Violin - Close - Teldex 30% 24ms

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto Folk Fiddle.mp3


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## Rudianos (Nov 11, 2021)

fan455 said:


> Here're the legato midi and render. Thank you Rudianos for automating the midi!
> 
> Andrew Lloyd Webber - Music of the Night
> 
> ...


very nice render of that one!


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Nov 11, 2021)

fan455 said:


> But is it possible to play legato between two identical notes (same pitch)?


That's rebow and i think that option is available if you hold down the sustain pedal but I'm not sure. head on to the store page for info maybe?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Nov 11, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> _Jean Sibelius - Violin Concerto_ in D minor - Mvmt 2. Adagio di molto in B♭ major, Mm. 6-26
> 
> Some Interesting Violins here. Each capture a lot of musicality in their own way. With some tweaking not at all unlike some of the Live Sibelius Concertos I have heard.
> 
> ...


Man you sure took those fiddle violins out of their comfort zone huh?  Indiginus - Fiddle didn't do so bad considering. I'd love to hear this one do Vivaldi maybe?


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## Rudianos (Dec 1, 2021)

The Music of the Night - Andrew Lloyd Weber

Special thanks to @fan455 for providing his recording for automation and rendering.

All Tracks - Altiverb Teldex 30% Wet - 24 MS Delay w/ Vienna Imperial Close Softest

Audio Imperia - Solo - Violin - Legato Slurred Tongued Default - Close - Teldex 30%/24ms

View attachment Multi - Master Oboe Demos - Music of the Night Audio Imperia Solo Violin.mp3


Embertone - Friedlander Violin - Passionate - No Stock Verb - Teldex 30%/24ms

View attachment Multi - Master Oboe Demos - Music of the Night Friedlander Passionate.mp3


Embertone - Joshua Bell - No Stock Verb - Teldex 30%/24ms

View attachment Multi - Master Oboe Demos - Music of the Night Bell.mp3


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 1, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> The Music of the Night - Andrew Lloyd Weber
> 
> Special thanks to @fan455 for providing his recording for automation and rendering.
> 
> ...


That's a really difficult peice for any VI. Hell I'd said it'd be hard for any instruments other than the human voice.


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## Rudianos (Dec 1, 2021)

_Jean Sibelius - Violin Concerto_ in D minor - Mvmt 2. Adagio di molto in B♭ major, Mm. 6-26

Audio Imperia - Solo - Violin - Default Legato

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto Solo Default.mp3


Embertone - Friedlander Violin - Default Legato

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto Fried Default.mp3


Embertone - Joshua Bell - Default Legato

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto Bell Default.mp3


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## muziksculp (Dec 1, 2021)

@Rudianos 

I told you I'm a Reverb Addict, your post about Altiverb 7 Teledex didn't help. 

I got Altiverb 7, and now I'm testing how the BBCSO Pro sounds in the Teledex Stage. to my surprise it sounds awesome in Teledex


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## Vangance (Dec 1, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> _Jean Sibelius - Violin Concerto_ in D minor - Mvmt 2. Adagio di molto in B♭ major, Mm. 6-26
> 
> Audio Imperia - Solo - Violin - Default Legato
> 
> ...


Friedlander by a country mile. I have jbell but its pretty awful for slow and expressive, as these demos show... 
EmoViolin still hard to beat for these kinds of lines....


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## Rudianos (Dec 1, 2021)

Bach Violin Sonata No. 3 in CM for Solo Violin 1005 - Mvmt. 4 Allegro Assai, MM. 1-32

Audio Imperia - Solo - Violin - Default Staccato

View attachment Multi - Master Oboe Demos - Bach Partita - Solo Violin Stacc.mp3


Audio Imperia - Solo - Violin - Default Legato

View attachment Multi - Master Oboe Demos - Bach Partita - Solo Default Legato.mp3


Embertone - Friedlander Violin - Default Legato

View attachment Multi - Master Oboe Demos - Bach Partita - Solo Violin Legato.mp3


Embertone - Joshua Bell - Default Legato

View attachment Multi - Master Oboe Demos - Bach Partita - Bell Default Legato.mp3


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## Rudianos (Dec 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> @Rudianos
> 
> I told you I'm a Reverb Addict, your post about Altiverb 7 Teledex didn't help.
> 
> I got Altiverb 7, and now I'm testing how the BBCSO Pro sounds in the Teledex Stage. to my surprise it sounds awesome in Teledex


ahaha you are a reverb animal!!! Love it. Post something


----------



## Rudianos (Dec 1, 2021)

Solo legato sounds good in many contexts but falls apart on Bach. Embertones a very solid performer. IMO


----------



## Tempfram (Dec 2, 2021)

Petrucci said:


> EWQLSO truly stands a test of time..!


What other offerings out there shares the character of the QLSO the most (not just the soloists, the entire ensemble in general)? I was thinking of getting LASS because of this.


----------



## Eptesicus (Dec 2, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> Bach Violin Sonata No. 3 in CM for Solo Violin 1005 - Mvmt. 4 Allegro Assai, MM. 1-32
> 
> Audio Imperia - Solo - Violin - Default Staccato
> 
> ...


Wow at the Friedlander. Sounds amazing.

Just listened to the demos on their site and it really excells at fast agile playing.

Slow stuff...maybe not so much.


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## Petrucci (Dec 2, 2021)

Tempfram said:


> What other offerings out there shares the character of the QLSO the most (not just the soloists, the entire ensemble in general)? I was thinking of getting LASS because of this.



LASS is quite dry, I believe, while EWQLSO was recorded in pretty big hall!


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## Tempfram (Dec 2, 2021)

Petrucci said:


> LASS is quite dry, I believe, while EWQLSO was recorded in pretty big hall!


I was referring to their cold, clear-ish tone.


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## Rudianos (Dec 19, 2021)

Another Batch of Bach Partita from Abbey Road II - all MIX A Default. Shorts really win for me here. So much life in them. I do think Legato could be better if I played for this library.

Violin I - Performance Legato

View attachment Multi - Master Oboe Demos - Bach Partita Abbey Violin I Dry.mp3


Violin I - Stacatto

View attachment Multi - Master Oboe Demos - Bach Partita Abbey Violin I Dry Stacatto.mp3


Violin 2 - Performance Legato

View attachment Multi - Master Oboe Demos - Bach Partita Abbey Violin II Dry Legato.mp3


Violin 2 - Dry Spiccato (Staccato too unclear)

View attachment Multi - Master Oboe Demos - Bach Partita Abbey Violin II Dry Spicatto.mp3


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## Syncopator (Dec 22, 2021)

I hate to be a "party pooper"—and I sincerely appreciate what was attempted here—but a violin shootout that omits the Samplemodeling and Audiomodeling violins (which are arguably the best emulations available) is, respectfully, flawed from the outset.

(Caveat: Since I don't have time to read all eight pages of this thread, I searched the thread for "Audiomodelling" and "Samplemodeling" and found nothing. If those instruments were mentioned via abbreviations, which are so common in this forum, I missed them.) 😊


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## doctoremmet (Dec 22, 2021)

Syncopator said:


> I hate to be a "party pooper"—and I sincerely appreciate what was attempted here—but a violin shootout that omits the Samplemodeling and Audiomodeling violins (which are arguably the best emulations available) is, respectfully, flawed from the outset.
> 
> (Caveat: Since I don't have time to read all eight pages of this thread, I searched the thread for "Audiomodelling" and "Samplemodeling" and found nothing. If those instruments were mentioned via abbreviations, which are so common in this forum, I missed them.) 😊


Feel free to add both


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## Rudianos (Jan 30, 2022)

A new addition. Lots of potential here especially with MIDI tweaking and maybe a new recording - but as promised same MIDI used as control as others. And somewhat out of element here for this library. 

Orchestral Tools - Igedesman Solo Violin


Bach Violin Sonata No. 3 in CM for Solo Violin 1005 - Mvmt. 4 Allegro Assai, MM. 1-32

Staccato gitano - SPOT Tree - What does Gitano mean?

View attachment Multi - Master Oboe Demos - Bach Partita - Ig.mp3


Staccato gitano - SPOT - Altiverb Teldex 30% 24ms

View attachment Multi - Master Oboe Demos - Bach Partita - Ig short 2.mp3


Rapid Legato - SPOT Tree

View attachment Multi - Master Oboe Demos - Bach Partita - Ig Rapid.mp3



_Jean Sibelius - Violin Concerto_ in D minor - Mvmt 2. Adagio di molto in B♭ major, Mm. 6-26

Slurred Legato - SPOT Tree

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - Sibelius Concerto - Ig.mp3



The Music of the Night - Andrew Lloyd Weber - w/Vienna Imperial

Slurred Legato - SPOT Altiverb Teldex 30% 24ms

View attachment Multi - Master Oboe Demos - Music of the Night IG slurred.mp3


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## Rudianos (Aug 29, 2022)

Here is another Violin

Sonixinema Contemporary Solo Violin

Bach Violin Sonata No. 3 in CM for Solo Violin 1005 - Mvmt. 4 Allegro Assai, MM. 1-32

Aggressive Shorts

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - 2022 - Violin - Shorts.mp3


Pizzicato

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - 2022 - Violin - Pizzicato.mp3


Col Legno

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - 2022 - Violin - Col Legno.mp3



_Jean Sibelius - Violin Concerto_ in D minor - Mvmt 2. Adagio di molto in B♭ major, Mm. 6-26

Expressive Legato - Default

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - 2022 - Violin - Sibelius.mp3



The Music of the Night - Andrew Lloyd Weber - w/Vienna Imperial

Expressive Legato - Default - Altiverb Teldex 30% 24ms

View attachment Multi - Master Violin Demos - 2022 - Music of the Night - Contemp Violin.mp3


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## Jrettetsoh (Jan 4, 2023)

Thanks to Rudianos and everyone for their work! Very helpful.

But still no Emotional Violin?
Maybe no one has ever bought it?? Hh


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## Rudianos (Jan 4, 2023)

Jrettetsoh said:


> Thanks to Rudianos and everyone for their work! Very helpful.
> 
> But still no Emotional Violin?
> Maybe no one has ever bought it?? Hh


That's so true where is it?! I appreciate your words though and my intention is to at some point very soon have another comparison piece with some refined understanding of how each individual instrument should be played


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## JohnS (Jan 5, 2023)

Spitfire Audio Solo Strings - Violin (Virtuoso) - Total Performance, with following settings:




Just close mic, washed in some reverb to taste.
View attachment Music of the Night (Spitfire Audio Solo Violin Virtuoso Total Performance).mp3


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## Rudianos (Jan 5, 2023)

JohnS said:


> Spitfire Audio Solo Strings - Violin (Virtuoso) - Total Performance, with following settings:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nice one! was close to grabbing these in the last sale ... do you enjoy the library?


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## JohnS (Jan 5, 2023)

Rudianos said:


> nice one! was close to grabbing these in the last sale ... do you enjoy the library?


I only start to appreciate it. I'm yet to put it through its paces, and can only compare to sectrion leaders from BBCSO Pro. That's why I used this thread to make it work and check if it delivers, with some real-world MIDI data.

On the surface SA Solo Strings exhibit some inconsistencies, like:
a) total performance patch, quite nice and usable, but only available for violin virtuoso and cello
b) no legato for contrabass
c) 3 different violins, but only virtuoso has legato

I think solo violin virtuoso is the best part of it, but there are other gems to be found, I'm sure, just scattered through different patches with sometimes weird set of articulations, which is inconvenient. In use it feels a bit frankensteiny, much older than BBCSO. And the last update it got is from Dec 2019.

My go-to solo strings chosen from both BBCSO Pro and Solo Strings are for now:
a) Violin - Virtuoso from Solo Strings
b) Viola - Violas Leader from BBCSO Pro
c) Cello - Celli Leader from BBCSO Pro
d) Bass - Bass Leader from BBCSO Pro

Hope it helps. 
Glad to hear you like my render.


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## ism (Jan 5, 2023)

JohnS said:


> Spitfire Audio Solo Strings - Violin (Virtuoso) - Total Performance, with following settings:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just a few thoughts, that may or may not be useful and/or relevant:

1. Unless you're going to use all the crazy c11 functionality, your CPU usage will go down by something like 90% if you uncheck "Utilize TM".

2. Libraries recorded in AIR Lyndhurst are really meant for the tree mic, with the close mic only there to add detail to the tree. If your mix is working for you, then great. But I'd never use it without at least 45% tree.


3. There's more that can be done in crafting the arcs here. For example, here's a me noodling in a few bars (1st with the virtuosic violin and then with the 1st chair from the full library)

View attachment solo strings - 2023-01-05, 10.52 PM.mp3

with dynamics exaggerated for effect (and definitely not just plonked in with my ham-fisted piano playing  )

What I have done carefully though is craft the dynamics and the vibrato with the mod wheel. And perhaps you can feel here how crafting the arcs with the vibrato really softens the harshness of the Molto vibrato, and make the phrasing just somehow sweeter.

See this video for how I've inferred the timing of the progressive vibrato from the cc1 data.



And this is a key thing about this library - you have to craft the arcs. Both in dynamics and vibrato. This is what lets your breath life into your phrasing.

4. This is kind of a comment on the nature of the "comparison thread", but I think also on the nature of the instrument.

Basically, I would just never use the Spitfire Solo Strings in this kind of context. They're going to sound ok at best. But they were just never intended for either this kind of chamber space, nor this kind of up front soloists chamber-esque performance aesthetic.

Fundamentally, these are orchestral instruments. They can be great for a certain type of orchestral soloists, and have lots of magnificent sweet spots - including the ability to craft your phrases enough to get the "string quartet effect", where you can somehow just *feel* the players "watching eachother's elbow" in concert. But they're not for designed as soloists in a chamber setting, neither sonically, nor in their expressive dimension, nor in the performances of the (fabulously great) performers.

For something like this you'd be far better off with something like the the Bohemian Violin or the Joshua Bell. These are instruments designed as virtuosic soloists. They're both recorded fairly dry, and in very differently virtuosic, and not especially orchestral, styles. They also prima donna who don't, by design, easily play well with other, in that they don't easily sit well within an orchestral sonority, not do they kind of control over phrasing that you need to play well with others. And as prima donna soloists, in a chamber setting, or stand well apart from the orchestra, they have their own fabulous sweet spots. But they're never going to to what the Spitfire instruments do.


Anyway, comparison threads always, reliably, drive me a bit crazy, so never mind me.  .


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## ism (Jan 5, 2023)

I'll maybe add too that for this kind of phrase, I much prefer the 1st chairs over the virtuosic. There's not really a lot in this phrase that calls for the kind of virtuosic ninjitsu that the SF virtuosic violin is capable of. 

But for something like this it blows everything else (short of a real violinist) out of the water:


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## Jrettetsoh (Jan 5, 2023)

ism said:


> Just a few thoughts, that may or may not be useful and/or relevant:
> 
> 1. Unless you're going to use all the crazy c11 functionality, your CPU usage will go down by something like 90% if you uncheck "Utilize TM".
> 
> ...



Yeah, why not both? Have a single reference frame midi for all, but then allow the submitter to also provide a snippet showing where and how they personally think the library shines.

Their reference midi could simply be a programmed arpeggio of 1/4 notes along the instrument’s range, 120 bpm? with all notes overlapping by a 16th. 3x at low med hi mod wheel. 2x+ times at med mod wheel with varying speeds slow to fast.


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## JohnS (Jan 6, 2023)

ism said:


> Just a few thoughts, that may or may not be useful and/or relevant:
> 
> 1. Unless you're going to use all the crazy c11 functionality, your CPU usage will go down by something like 90% if you uncheck "Utilize TM".


I did not encounter high CPU with this VI, but thanks for the tip!



ism said:


> 2. Libraries recorded in AIR Lyndhurst are really meant for the tree mic, with the close mic only there to add detail to the tree. If your mix is working for you, then great. But I'd never use it without at least 45% tree.


Then GUI in my copy must be buggy, it aparrently allows to use just a single close mic. 



ism said:


> 3. There's more that can be done in crafting the arcs here. For example, here's a me noodling in a few bars (1st with the virtuosic violin and then with the 1st chair from the full library)


Of course it can be massaged and be led to any direction/interpretation. I'm sure you also know how much time it takes. It's an instrument with lots of features, not simple MIDI player. I just assumed that We-All-Know-That. My render was ment to be almost straight out of the box patch to show if/how usefull it is without massaging. I also wanted it to be comparable with other renders in this thread, so I used unmodified MIDI data. And also to show if/how usefull is the dry[ish] close mic, when used in more chamber setup, in context of violin+piano of the piece. Or paired with non-AIR libs.

I don't have any piano recorded in AIR Lyndhurst to compare. If you have, would you bother to massage the whole piece "properly", mix with piano recorded at AIR, to prove that adding AIR tree signal really fits the piece better? When you play solo violin it's another story than when you add other instrument.



ism said:


> View attachment solo strings - 2023-01-05, 10.52 PM.mp3
> 
> with dynamics exaggerated for effect (and definitely not just plonked in with my ham-fisted piano playing  )


I personally find your example very chaotic, not only in exagerrated dynamics, but also with AIR bouncing the drama even more. I'm not sure if it does justice to the lib better than my example, but it definitely adds another dimension (read: insight).



ism said:


> Basically, I would just never use the Spitfire Solo Strings in this kind of context. They're going to sound ok at best. But they were just never intended for either this kind of chamber space, nor this kind of up front soloists chamber-esque performance aesthetic.


Is that the reason not to include it for comparison?



ism said:


> Anyway, comparison threads always, reliably, drive me a bit crazy, so never mind me.  .


I can see! 
But let me still mind you, I'm happy to hear more from you.👍


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## ism (Jan 6, 2023)

JohnS said:


> I personally find your example very chaotic, not only in exagerrated dynamics, but also with AIR bouncing the drama even more. I'm not sure if it does justice to the lib better than my example, but it definitely adds another dimension (read: insight).


Yes, the dyanmics, and the playing style in general, are very much exaggerated, and you're reign this in to something much more subtle in practice. The point being to foreground the expressive dimensions, in particular the way you can craft progressive vibrato, which I feel makes an enormous difference.

And, yes, comparison threads really do drive me crazy.


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## Rudianos (Jan 6, 2023)

Well I sure love the discussion. And I like the idea of basic arpeggios with a standard MIDI and a call for individual renders based on the arcs and timings of the libraries... Will try to get that moving. And if someone beats me - please do.


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