# The All-Seeing "i": Apple Just Declared War on Your Privacy?



## creativeforge (Aug 29, 2021)

Apple users, any worries? 

QUOTE: "Apple has announced impending changes to its operating systems that include new “protections for children” features in iCloud and iMessage. If you’ve spent any time following the Crypto Wars, you know what this means: Apple is planning to build a backdoor into its data storage system and its messaging system."

[Source: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/...t-encryption-opens-backdoor-your-private-life]

QUOTE: "By now you've probably heard that Apple plans to push a new and uniquely intrusive surveillance system out to many of the more than _one billion _iPhones it has sold, which all run the behemoth's proprietary, take-it-or-leave-it software. This new offensive is tentatively slated to begin with the launch of iOS 15⁠—almost certainly in mid-September⁠—with the devices of its US user-base designated as the initial targets. We’re told that other countries will be spared, but not for long.

You might have noticed that I haven’t mentioned which problem it is that Apple is purporting to solve. Why? Because it doesn’t matter.

Having read thousands upon thousands of remarks on this growing scandal, it has become clear to me that many understand it doesn't matter, but few if any have been willing to actually say it. Speaking candidly, if that’s still allowed, that’s the way it always goes when someone of institutional significance launches a campaign to defend an indefensible intrusion into our private spaces. 

They make a mad dash to the supposed high ground, from which they speak in low, solemn tones about their moral mission before fervently invoking the dread spectre of the Four Horsemen of the Infopocalypse, warning that only a dubious amulet—or suspicious software update—can save us from the most threatening members of our species.

Suddenly, everybody with a principled objection is forced to preface their concern with apologetic throat-clearing and the establishment of bonafides: _I lost a friend when the towers came down, however... As a parent, I understand this is a real problem, but_..."

[Source: https://edwardsnowden.substack.com/p/all-seeing-i]


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## kevinh (Aug 29, 2021)

I disabled iCloud photos out of principle and turned off auto update. Not going to IOS 15 until all this settles, if ever. Potential for future abuse is very concerning. If they can search one thing they can monitor for anything on your devices/laptop/desktop. Rogue governments are going to have a field day once this is released worldwide. They went from king of privacy to super creepy.


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## Quasar (Aug 29, 2021)

Privacy is so, like, '90s, man...

This toothpaste is long already out of the tube. Regardless of how it shakes out with any particular company, OS or publicly known backdoor system, the operative assumption has to be that when one is on the grid there is no reliable expectation of privacy.

One of the many reasons that the right to 100% offline computer workstations should be inviolable.


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## Crowe (Aug 29, 2021)

I got fed up with Apple's anti-consumer shenanigans years ago. This is just the natural progression and I'm actually kind of surprised it took them so long to just stop pretending. I find them to be a trash company with trash ethics.


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## AudioLoco (Aug 29, 2021)

We need a profound governments regulations of private monopolizing companies like Apple, Google and Facefook... 
Until they are the only alternative available they make the rules. And until they make the rules they will be the only alternative available.

-If breaching privacy makes therm more money, they will breach privacy.
-If getting paid from foreign countries seeking to saw division and gain control over public opinion narratives as an effective attack plan, they will get paid.
-If helping spreading dangerous conspiracy theories creating hatred and spreading health misinformation makes them money they will make money.

Privacy is not a 90s thing. It is a universal human right and should be respected.


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## Quasar (Aug 29, 2021)

Perhaps ironically, Apple made its name by posing as a "_Power to the people!_" alternative to monopolistic, unaccountable soulless corporatism, and today they personify exactly everything that's wrong with big money and big power.


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## goonman (Aug 29, 2021)

Turning off or disabling intended updates only delays the inevitable. Eventually other companies quietly buy in because the optics of a product's proclivity to Child abuse/sex trafficking use is far more damaging than the "invasion of privacy" argument. Case in point, after 9/11 Americans were more willing to use technology to surveil potential terrorist even though it came at a loss of personal privacy (Patriot Act , namely SEC 215). Eventually the dust settled and we learned to live with what that meant. In 2020, Section 215 expired but the residual affect of what was lost no longer sparks public debate or meaningful scrutiny especially when coupled with the ever familiar theme of Preservation of Life, Preservation of our "freedoms", protection of the most vulnerable and on and on... It's hard to argue with that.


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## sostenuto (Aug 29, 2021)

Seriously frightening to ponder _ as daily news so often filled with accounts, of innocent individuals released after decades of painful, false imprisonment. Lives ruined, families devastated, from irrecoverable stain of media coverage, no matter true guilt or innocence. 
Unlike many, despite decades of high-tech career, and related activities, never use social media, and smartphone usage limited to tight family, inner circle friendships. _Even so_, these surveillance tools could be devastating in situations of hostile usage or attack _ triggering improper alerts, notifications. 
Combined with irresponsible media ( local, et al ) unthinkable !! 

Need to check out 'burner' fones. No way gambling many hundred$ on vulnerable devices.


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Aug 29, 2021)

It reminds me of this recent story:








The Taliban may have access to the biometric data of civilians who helped the U.S. military


The U.S. military collected biometric data on Afghan civilians. The information may have fallen into the hands of the Taliban, highlighting why collecting the data is too risky in the first place.




theconversation.com




How many times have I heard young people saying "I don't care, I have nothing to hide!" Maybe so, maybe not now, but who knows what the future has in store? What's legal and acceptable one day might not be tomorrow.

If nothing else, my life in the former Soviet Union has told me that things can change _very_ dramatically and abruptly sometimes... Even things you took for granted...


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Aug 29, 2021)

By the way, there might be a 6th, more nefarious, reason why you cannot remove the battery in your iPhone (and most other phones) now. 

Also think about this: for Siri and OK Google to be able to respond _at all times_ to your vocal commands _they must be able to listen at all times_... Remember the Samsung TV scandal? Not paranoid but still...not idiot.


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## Trash Panda (Aug 29, 2021)

I find it hilarious that people believe privacy still exists. You want privacy? Throw away all cell phones, stop using the internet in any fashion and move to some remote area of the countryside.

Then the only invasion of your privacy you have to worry about is the network of satellites that can keep you under surveillance 24/7, give or take a few minutes of coverage gaps.

Privacy and security are nothing more than comforting lies we tell ourselves.


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## sostenuto (Aug 29, 2021)

Comprende' yet still reason(s) to take simple steps, minimizing exposure /access.  imho


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## AudioLoco (Aug 29, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I find it hilarious that people believe privacy still exists. You want privacy? Throw away all cell phones, stop using the internet in any fashion and move to some remote area of the countryside.
> 
> Then the only invasion of your privacy you have to worry about is the network of satellites that can keep you under surveillance 24/7, give or take a few minutes of coverage gaps.
> 
> Privacy and security are nothing more than comforting lies we tell ourselves.


Hillarious....
That is true. But it SHOULD exist.
It is because nothing have been done by society to put regulations on those violating privacy.
New tech, new rules.
There where no traffic lights before cars came around.
It is a simple concept.


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## kevinh (Aug 29, 2021)

Talking about privacy, I actually worry about a lot of my posts in this forum. If people outside were to ever see them they might misunderstand and think I’m funny in real life.


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## Crowe (Aug 29, 2021)

People may no longer care in the Americas, but here in Europe privacy protection is still fought for.

With how the modern cultural zeitgeist walks among the lines of 'That one thing you said 15 years ago? Yeah, we're going to destroy you for it' I feel like we should all be much more careful with our privacy and social media.


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## Macrawn (Aug 29, 2021)

I don't want Apple monitoring what I do and reporting me to the authorities if they deem something out of line. It might start with "protecting the children", but once this monitoring becomes the norm it won't be long until it starts looking for other crimes. What happens when Apple begins to suspect you might commit a crime based on something your wrote? What happens if (since they are creating a back door) the government gets in as well? They have resisted turning over their information so far to the government but is it unreasonable to think that some future board of directors will change that?

I don't think our courts will protect our privacy when these cases make it there and I don't think our legislators will stand up and pass laws protecting our privacy. 

Amazon has that sidewalk thing going on where it uses your internet to connect other people to it, and they listen to your conversations at home. We really do need laws to outlaw this kind of thing. 

We will either push our politicians to do something, or in a couple of years it's going to get even more intrusive or the data will be used in more and more expanding ways.


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## d.healey (Aug 29, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> You want privacy? Throw away all cell phones, stop using the internet in any fashion and move to some remote area of the countryside.


Privacy is not all or nothing.


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## Fidelity (Aug 29, 2021)

Quasar said:


> Perhaps ironically, Apple made its name by posing as a "_Power to the people!_" alternative to monopolistic, unaccountable soulless corporatism, and today they personify exactly everything that's wrong with big money and big power.


Rebels come in four non-exclusive varieties: people who think it makes them "edgy", pariahs, self unaware satire acts, and Emmanuel Goldsteins.

Pretty sure apple is squarely in the fourth group.


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Aug 29, 2021)

Macrawn said:


> I don't want Apple monitoring what I do and reporting me to the authorities if they deem something out of line. It might start with "protecting the children", but once this monitoring becomes the norm it won't be long until it starts looking for other crimes. What happens when Apple begins to suspect you might commit a crime based on something your wrote?


What if their A.I. _predicts, _from what you wrote or said, that you _might _commit something illegal or even just immoral (according to _them_) in the future?

Not anymore something out of sci-fi, like the PreCogs of _Minority Report_, but something* very real:*








Artificial Intelligence Is Now Used to Predict Crime. But Is It Biased?


The software is supposed to make policing more fair and accountable. But critics say it still has a way to go.




www.smithsonianmag.com


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Aug 29, 2021)

Ever since we knew that the tech companies basically threw open their backdoors to the various intel agencies plus 5 Eyes, it was time to start transitioning off iMessage, Gmail, etc. 

Signal is probably the most popular secure messaging app now, and Protonmail is also an excellent option for email. MUCH better than getting everything you type scraped by Whatsapp (FB) or iMessage.

I know LOTS of people in law enforcement. Getting a warrant for a cell tower so Feds or local PD can take a look at everything ever sent via SMS is like asking the judge if he/she wants to take two mulligans that day on the golf course. Until now, they couldn't touch iMessage.

Here's a perfect question for Apple, that this new "feature" is being done in bad faith at the behest of bad actors in government: why did they never implement a self-deleting message feature for iMessage? It's because they want those messages preserved.


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Aug 29, 2021)

Anyone here dabble in Urbit yet btw?


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## Alchemedia (Aug 29, 2021)

Crowe said:


> I got fed up with Apple's anti-consumer shenanigans years ago. This is just the natural progression and I'm actually kind of surprised it took them so long to just stop pretending. I find them to be a trash company with trash ethics.


Form before function for more money. What's not to hate?


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Aug 29, 2021)

The top line says it all: PredPol (predictive police) becomes Geolitica.
Is the next step PredPolitica ? 
A.I.-assisted predictive policing for political purposes?



​


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## creativeforge (Aug 29, 2021)

Yes to monitoring human trafficking online. But we know better now, and this is the gateway cause to gain access to the rest of the castle. And who guards the Cerberus?

Almost is like those doing the censoring and banning are not fair game for the same from the billions of consumers of their products. There is a one-way, politically, predictably flexible set of "moral" rules that apply to them, and then to others. It's like corporations financing marketing campaign to have regular folks care about the environment. Let's not look at their own ecological footprints allover the world.


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## Macrawn (Aug 29, 2021)

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> What if their A.I. _predicts, _from what you wrote or said, that you _might _commit something illegal or even just immoral (according to _them_) in the future?
> 
> Not anymore something out of sci-fi, like the PreCogs of _Minority Report_, but something* very real:*
> 
> ...


Like the minority report movie? Since they can track everything you do, say, and in a way think because you type it or say it, I think they could make a determination if you are high risk to commit a crime and deploy a drone to follow you around. 

I don't like crime, but a world that eliminates it totally could be a worse place to live. I have to think about that one.


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## kgdrum (Aug 29, 2021)

kevinh said:


> Talking about privacy, I actually worry about a lot of my posts in this forum. If people outside were to ever see them they might misunderstand and think I’m funny in real life.


Don’t worry, I’d never make that assumption 😉


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Aug 29, 2021)

Signing-off tonight with this caricature from Snowden's article (in case you missed it) that says it all:





edwardsnowden.substack.com/p/all-seeing-i​
And another article about Apple from Privacy International:




__





Apple opens the door to mass surveillance


Today Apple announced a set of measures aimed at improving child safety in the USA.




privacyinternational.org


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## NYC Composer (Aug 29, 2021)

I have a feeling this policy will be reversed.


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## creativeforge (Aug 29, 2021)

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> What if their A.I. _predicts, _from what you wrote or said, that you _might _commit something illegal or even just immoral (according to _them_) in the future?
> 
> Not anymore something out of sci-fi, like the PreCogs of _Minority Report_, but something* very real:*
> 
> ...


We also should not forget that most COVID mitigation measures implementations are based on computer generated predictive models, using a form of AI (machine learning) to determine REALITY: as in "computer modeling" using "algorithms." The resulting figures are sent to government officials AS IF they were empirically real. 

Helpful to a degree, but certainly the same concerns can be raised: what gathered data is fed into the machine? What is the margin of error as to the predictions? Is there a safety valve? Etc. 

I suspect that AI R&D is way more advanced than what is revealed to the public are its applications.


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## creativeforge (Aug 29, 2021)

NYC Composer said:


> I have a feeling this policy will be reversed.


What gives you this impression, Larry?


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## NYC Composer (Aug 30, 2021)

General outcry. It wouldn't be the first time they reversed a stance to protect their bottom line.

if the FBI has solid enough evidence of pedophilia to take to a judge and get a warrant, I’m for busting into somebody’s phone. Pedophilia is horrible. However, this general invasion of ALL privacy is a really stupid idea, and I think it will be rethought. We’ll see.


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## GNP (Aug 30, 2021)

Quasar said:


> Perhaps ironically, Apple made its name by posing as a "_Power to the people!_" alternative to monopolistic, unaccountable soulless corporatism, and today they personify exactly everything that's wrong with big money and big power.



Yep. It's gotten to a point that any public figure, corporation or entity that uses "The People" as part of their promotional slogan, I'm extremely wary of. In fact it makes me puke.


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## NYC Composer (Sep 3, 2021)

Apple delays its criticized plan to scan iPhones for child exploitation images


Critics said Apple's system was at odds with its promises to protect its customers' privacy.




www.cnbc.com





So it's begun. Now they're "delaying" it. I still think they'll ultimately cancel it. There's a lot of pushback.


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## Paulogic (Sep 3, 2021)

And soon we will hear the words : "I'll be back" ... (ref : Terminator)


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## Jay Panikkar (Sep 3, 2021)

Looks like Hollywood will be ditching Apple devices going forward. 



Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Signal is probably the most popular secure messaging app now, and Protonmail is also an excellent option for email. MUCH better than getting everything you type scraped by Whatsapp (FB) or iMessage.


Signal is owned by the same group who own Twitter. Telegram is a better option, imo.


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## Jay Panikkar (Sep 3, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Anyone here dabble in Urbit yet btw?


Soon. 

Imo, any Linux- / Unix-based OS can serve similar purpose if privacy is the main concern.

Somewhat marginally related, you might be interested in the Ethereum Name Service (ENS) which allows for decentralised domain registration. ENS is based here in Singapore.


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## NYC Composer (Sep 3, 2021)

Paulogic said:


> And soon we will hear the words : "I'll be back" ... (ref : Terminator)


I suspect they will quietly bury this idea.


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## EpicMusicGuy (Sep 3, 2021)

i SEE YOU


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## babylonwaves (Sep 3, 2021)

If you don't like to be "seen" that way, buy into another eco system. I'm more worried about the stuff I cannot influence.


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## NYC Composer (Sep 3, 2021)

babylonwaves said:


> If you don't like to be "seen" that way, buy into another eco system. I'm more worried about the stuff I cannot influence.


Why? You can't influence it-why worry?


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## babylonwaves (Sep 3, 2021)

NYC Composer said:


> Why? You can't influence it-why worry?


Facebook and what it does to many.


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## Crowe (Sep 3, 2021)

NYC Composer said:


> Why? You can't influence it-why worry?


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## chimuelo (Sep 3, 2021)

Just another weapon to use against an enemy, be it foreign or domestic.

If they can Dload/Scan your photos, they can certainly upload some as well.

But for anyone looking to regulate these multi trillion dollar corporations, better check your “Recents” and Library from time to time. Their investments in elections have given them unprecedented power.

Easy to un-sync your iPhones, iPads from your PCs/Androids. 

Then put hundreds of pictures of grandparents and Grand Canyon/Yosemite in your App£€ devices.

Midget Porn stuff is safe on your Router/PC.


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## NYC Composer (Sep 3, 2021)

chimuelo said:


> Midget Porn stuff is safe on your Router/PC.


Jimmy, try not to bring us your personal preferences....😉


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## bill5 (Sep 4, 2021)

I wonder how many people ranting about Apple use google.com, gmail, etc etc 

True privacy is impossible online, but I don't think that means we should throw our arms up and give up trying to beat the SOBs back as much as possible. I never use Google anything, don't have Apple anything, and decline cookies wherever possible. I keep telling myself it's just aggregate data they're after anyway, not like someone is going to go "pull up bill5's file!" like some cheesy movie.


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## Kony (Sep 4, 2021)

Macrawn said:


> What happens when Apple begins to suspect you might commit a crime based on something your wrote?


I worry about sending Scarface quotes to my mates because of this.


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## bill5 (Sep 4, 2021)

Say hello to my leetle friend!


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## kevinh (Sep 4, 2021)

bill5 said:


> I wonder how many people ranting about Apple use google.com, gmail, etc etc
> 
> True privacy is impossible online, but I don't think that means we should throw our arms up and give up trying to beat the SOBs back as much as possible. I never use Google anything, don't have Apple anything, and decline cookies wherever possible. I keep telling myself it's just aggregate data they're after anyway, not like someone is going to go "pull up bill5's file!" like some cheesy movie.


Online services spying on you is one thing but it’s totally different from on device snooping. That is taking thing to a totally different level and it’s the issue here.


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## bill5 (Sep 4, 2021)

Because?


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## ptram (Sep 5, 2021)

NYC Composer said:


> General outcry.


If so, just wait for the news about a network of pedophiles dismantled because of the new control. There will be an outcry to even enforce the control, and possibly more.

Paolo


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## ptram (Sep 5, 2021)

Why stopping to data mining? There is already a technique to give an electric shock to people with prejudices based on non officially accepted stereotypes. This should be easy to implement on a smartphone.

(I hope automatic translation will help with this article).









La stimolazione cerebrale non invasiva contro pregiudizi e stereotipi sociali


La stimolazione cerebrale non invasiva contro pregiudizi e stereotipi sociali




www.huffingtonpost.it


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## NYC Composer (Sep 5, 2021)

ptram said:


> If so, just wait for the news about a network of pedophiles dismantled because of the new control. There will be an outcry to even enforce the control, and possibly more.
> 
> Paolo


I dont think it’s going to get that far.


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## NYC Composer (Sep 5, 2021)

Crowe said:


>


Ha!
Actually, my usual cynicism has protected me from the disappointment of optimism. I expect things to go to hell, when they don’t I’m pleasantly surprised.


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## Kevin Fortin (Sep 23, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Here's a perfect question for Apple, that this new "feature" is being done in bad faith at the behest of bad actors in government: why did they never implement a self-deleting message feature for iMessage? It's because they want those messages preserved.


Well, most iPhones are made in Shenzhen in the PRC . . .


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## Kevin Fortin (Sep 23, 2021)

creativeforge said:


> We also should not forget that most COVID mitigation measures implementations are based on computer generated predictive models, using a form of AI (machine learning) to determine REALITY: as in "computer modeling" using "algorithms." The resulting figures are sent to government officials AS IF they were empirically real.
> 
> Helpful to a degree, but certainly the same concerns can be raised: what gathered data is fed into the machine? What is the margin of error as to the predictions? Is there a safety valve? Etc.
> 
> I suspect that AI R&D is way more advanced than what is revealed to the public are its applications.


This is mitigated to some extent by independent organic beings such as Scott Atlas (radiologist), Rand Paul (ophthalmologist), and Florida Governor Ron deSantis (not a doctor) spouting off as if they are expert virologists and epidemiologists.


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## Kevin Fortin (Sep 23, 2021)

A diligently observed populace is a well-mannered and considerate populace.


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## rgames (Sep 23, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> We need a profound governments regulations of private monopolizing companies like Apple, Google and Facefook


I (mostly) disagree. Let people vote with their dollars. That's democracy in action. Giving control to a small group of people in a governing body is the opposite of democracy. Just ask Hong Kong.

If enough people care they'll stop buying Apple products. If not, they should be free to do as they please. As long as nobody is forced to buy an Apple product then anything they or Apple do with regard to personal privacy is not an issue for anyone who chooses not to buy an Apple product.

You don't need government intervention to maintain your privacy vis-a-vis Apple devices. Just don't buy Apple devices. Caveat Emptor.

With regard to child sex trafficking/porngraphy/etc. we already have laws there. If that's really the issue then we have a means to address it without adding any more regulations.

rgames


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## Kevin Fortin (Sep 23, 2021)

rgames said:


> I (mostly) disagree. Let people vote with their dollars. That's democracy in action. Giving control to a small group of people in a governing body is the opposite of democracy. Just ask Hong Kong.


Speaking of which, I think Speaker of the House and Senate Majority/Minority Leader should be one-year terms. Otherwise everything gets funneled into the calculations of two or three people, which is also anti-democratic.

Pelosi looks like an Apple user. Let's start with her. As for Mitch McConnell, we might need to determine which brand of typewriter he uses, or put pressure on his steno pool.


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