# My request (which probably will not be honored)



## Ashermusic (Mar 26, 2017)

Please, folks, stop starting threads titled _"Which (fill in the blanks) library is the best?"_

There is no "the best." There is only that which you like best or which serves your writing the best. Which does not make it the best.

Perhaps instead _"Which (fill in the blanks) library do you like best?"_

And before some chowderhead says, "that's just semantics", my answer will be that words matter.

Thank you in advance for at least considering it.


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## chillbot (Mar 26, 2017)

Which DAW do you like the best though? Is it Logic? Is it?


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## Joe_D (Mar 26, 2017)

I'll second your request with an addition:

How about "Which ______ do you like best _for ________?" 
_
Like: Which chamber strings do you like best for quiet, intimate music? 

Or: Which piano library do you like best for cutting through loud drums?

Etc….


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## Ashermusic (Mar 26, 2017)

chillbot said:


> Which DAW do you like the best though? Is it Logic? Is it?



I do indeed, but you have never seen me write that it is the best DAW, only that it is the one I use and prefer based on how well I know it. 

If I had a financial incentive to switch to Cubase or DP, I certainly could. 

If forced to switch to Reaper though, I might end my life


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## kurtvanzo (Mar 26, 2017)

The only issue is many people that start those threads are new to the forum, and don't see the previous threads that are similar (otherwise they would realize they are repeating a recent thread)... and probably won't see this thread either (at least in a week or two). Good to mention, difficult to get the word out to newbies (perhaps a sticky? But who looks at those?).

Perhaps it's just better to read it as "do you like the best" when it says "is the best". I think most people realize "the best" in music is subjective, otherwise I could outlaw the hurdy gurdy.


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## Lode_Runner (Mar 27, 2017)

+1 what Kurt said.


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## Puzzlefactory (Mar 27, 2017)

People new to composition are always going to look for advice on which libraries to get. Especially as most them cost about the same a months rent or more. 

I think it's just part and parcel of a music forum (dedicated to sample libraries). 

In fairness, it's only in one subforum (the sample talk forum) where it happens. There are plenty of other subforums where those threads don't pop up.


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## Polkasound (Mar 27, 2017)

A VI enthusiast asking "Which library is the best?" is just as dreadful as when someone comes up to my band and asks, "Can you play _Roll Out the Barrel_?" But we play it anyway (albeit begrudgingly) because it's obviously the only polka that person knows. Likewise, those "Which library is the best?" questions should still be entertained for the reasons Kurt mentioned above.



Ashermusic said:


> There is no "the best." There is only that which you like best or which serves your writing the best. Which does not make it the best.



We all know that, but they don't. They're not asking the question to be annoying. They're simply inexperienced and looking for expert advice.

Some time back in the mid 1990's, I posted a question in a radio scanning forum about why incoming signals to my mobile scanner were choppy. It was my very first post to an internet forum. The first person who responded totally reamed me out for asking such a vapid question and failing to have read the FAQs. (I had no idea what FAQs were back then.) It was an unpleasant experience, and I vowed never to treat a newbie in the same way.

So even though I am 100% in agreement with Jay, I'll probably keep answering that question anyway... albeit begrudgingly.


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## Christof (Mar 27, 2017)

Which composer is the best?
Have fun with this one 
(BTW I agree with Jay.)


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Mar 27, 2017)

Christof said:


> Which composer is the best?
> Have fun with this one
> (BTW I agree with Jay.)


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Mar 27, 2017)

Oh Jay


Ashermusic said:


> Please, folks, stop starting threads titled _"Which (fill in the blanks) library is the best?"_
> 
> There is no "the best." There is only that which you like best or which serves your writing the best. Which does not make it the best.
> 
> ...


Oh Jay, you certainly provide some chuckles.

You remind me of what goes through my head reading such titles as well...


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## Lode_Runner (Mar 27, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> There is no "the best." There is only that which you like best or which serves your writing the best. Which does not make it the best.


Beg to differ. This is the best Kazoo library ever: http://www.soniccouture.com/en/products/p174-concert-kazoos/


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## novaburst (Mar 27, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> There is no "the best." There is only that which you like best or which serves your writing the best. Which does not make it the best



True words, in this case composers need not look elsewhere because of the great satisfaction they are getting from existing library's, they don't jump when that new library hits the market.

But oh man those crazy sales,


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## Tatu (Mar 27, 2017)

Add this to the list: "Which DAW is best for modern hybrid composer?"


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## Smikes77 (Mar 27, 2017)

All jokes aside...

Which string library IS the best?


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## jononotbono (Mar 27, 2017)

Smikes77 said:


> Which string library IS the best?



The REAL question is... WHO is the BEST at using a String library. FIIIIGHT...


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Mar 27, 2017)

I have to say that this post has come as a very poinient time for me.

As a result of jumping on the software sample library library bandwagon, I find I have not made any music that I have completed in almost 2 years now.

As a lover of tech I find I am always caught up with the madness that goes on wanting the latest and greatest library that the market has to offer. Sometimes spending countless hours of the day staring at new features and innovations.

Now I come to the conclusion that contentment comes from personal choice and a discipline to say enough, time to be greatful for what I have and use this.

What I have now in terms of content I would have dreamed of back at University. Yet now the sum of my tools, seems lacking and it is I am certain because I tell myself I need more, when I have no need for anything right now.

It means I have plugins and software I don't use either, because there was not need, but impulse involved. We live and learn, hopefully more of the latter


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## Puzzlefactory (Mar 27, 2017)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> As a result of jumping on the software sample library library bandwagon, I find I have not made any music that I have completed in almost 2 years now.



I have a similar yet opposite problem when trying make templates. I find that i can never finish a template as i just start noodling around writing music after i start loading instruments into the channels.

I do also find it difficult to finish tracks. I have a folder filed with the beginning ideas of tracks and very few fully realised, fleshed out tracks.


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## Astronaut FX (Mar 27, 2017)

Great point Jay. Even a slightly modified approach would be better than a "what's the best _____" thread. 

For example, 

"What string libraries would work best for a lo fi horror track?"

"What brass libraries are good for cinematic action movie trailers?"

"What are some good, all-purpose string libraries for a newbie with a limited budget, that might have to be my only string library for a while?"

Simply by providing a bit more information about how you need to use it, or what you want to accomplish would make those kinds of threads more valuable to the thread poster, and to the community as a whole.


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## Puzzlefactory (Mar 27, 2017)

Astronaut FX said:


> Great point Jay. Even a slightly modified approach would be better than a "what's the best _____" thread.
> 
> For example,
> 
> ...



Problem is, most of those asking want "the best" all round library.


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## KEnK (Mar 27, 2017)

Funny!
Just the other day I was thinking of starting a thread called "What's your favorite string library"-
Not that I care- just to troll the place. 
Glad I didn't.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 27, 2017)

Puzzlefactory said:


> Problem is, most of those asking want "the best" all round library.



And when i was a kid, I wanted a pony 

Again, no such thing, too subjective.


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## Puzzlefactory (Mar 27, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> And when i was a kid, I wanted a pony
> 
> Again, no such thing, too subjective.



Maybe so. But some one new to the whole thing is going to want a "jack of all trades" library to get them started. They are also going to be daunted by the price tags of a lot of these libraries and are going to want advice from people with more experience. 

Even searching the forums can be daunting when you see the size some of the "library specific" threads like the spitfire ones of the CSS ones.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 27, 2017)

Puzzlefactory said:


> Maybe so. But some one new to the whole thing is going to want a "jack of all trades" library to get them started. They are also going to be daunted by the price tags of a lot of these libraries and are going to want advice from people with more experience.
> 
> Even searching the forums can be daunting when you see the size some of the "library specific" threads like the spitfire ones of the CSS ones.



Fine, then let's educate them as to the difference between samples and real players, good sample library vs other good sample library, etc.. "Musicians helping musicians" right?


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## Stiltzkin (Mar 27, 2017)

One problem with this is that if people were to stop doing this, the existing threads would need to be kept up to date with lively discussions, which just won't happen because the threads would be huge. I say that because the threads that already exist are based on products that were out at the time of writing the thread - since then many new products might be out which might serve that specific purpose, but because it's an old thread the product won't be mentioned. Just a thought.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 27, 2017)

Stiltzkin said:


> One problem with this is that if people were to stop doing this, the existing threads would need to be kept up to date with lively discussions, which just won't happen because the threads would be huge. I say that because the threads that already exist are based on products that were out at the time of writing the thread - since then many new products might be out which might serve that specific purpose, but because it's an old thread the product won't be mentioned. Just a thought.



I would suggest that if 80% of the existing threads went away to be replaced by newer ones, we would not be that much for the poorer. There is by nature a lot of redundancy as members come and members go.


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## Quasar (Mar 27, 2017)

Smikes77 said:


> All jokes aside...
> 
> Which string library IS the best?


I know the answer, but am not going to tell you because I don't want to derail the thread topic.

I think "What is the best...?" questions are great, because the word _best_ is well understood by most everyone (including non-native English speakers who are proficient enough in the language to post here) to be a shorthand, easy-to-use tag that offers a springboard for discussing what people prefer, why they prefer one over another, comparative strengths & weaknesses etc. That there is a huge subjective component is obvious and goes without saying, as people are simply sharing points of view.

It's also handy for googlers searching for opinions about the "best" whatever... 

I am firmly in the camp who believes that this is pointless lexical nitpicking, not to mention that the broader idea of attempting to set set "standards" for how questions should be framed appropriately is troublesome on a number of levels.


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## Astronaut FX (Mar 27, 2017)

Maybe we (Jay) needs to start a new thread, that can then be closed and stickied, that gives an opening "preamble" if you will, of how best to leverage the community, and how to frame newbish questions in a manner that best facilitates positive dialogue and useful answers. 

At another forum I visit (Muffwiggler), they do a better job of providing stickied threads that cater to newbies. Perhaps we could take a page from another community that does this well.


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## Quasar (Mar 27, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> I would suggest that if 80% of the existing threads went away to be replaced by newer ones, we would not be that much for the poorer. There is by nature a lot of redundancy as members come and members go.


I disagree with this most vehemently. Looking at old posts is like time traveling, and because of Moore's Law and all of that, 2009 e.g. was a long time ago, and you get different perspectives on how people viewed the VI landscape, perspectives that are outside of the bubble of current group-think.

Recurrent repetition patterns is how everything works, the cycle of life, man...LOL


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## Jaap (Mar 27, 2017)

I understand the sentiment, but things change fast in the sample library landscape. So many new products and also many coming and going here and I think this will (and should) remain. Only thing I can think of is to create a subform section called "The Best" with dedicated topics (strings, brass, woodwinds, percussion, daw, eq's) etc where we can constantly update those topics.
What I don't like and what I think that could be improved is that if somebody wants to address such a question that he/she should eloborate what his/her thoughts or meaning behind it are. Threads like "What is the best string library" and then an opening post with just "thoughts???" is redicule in my opinion. At least care to explain what you are looking for.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 27, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> I know the answer, but am not going to tell you because I don't want to derail the thread topic.
> 
> I think "What is the best...?" questions are great, because the word _best_ is well understood by most everyone (including non-native English speakers who are proficient enough in the language to post here) to be a shorthand, easy-to-use tag that offers a springboard for discussing what people prefer, why they prefer one over another, comparative strengths & weaknesses etc. That there is a huge subjective component is obvious and goes without saying, as people are simply sharing points of view.
> 
> ...



Respectfully, what you see as "pointless lexical nitpicking" I see as battling intellectual laziness.


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## robgb (Mar 27, 2017)

Joe_D said:


> I'll second your request with an addition:
> 
> How about "Which ______ do you like best _for ________?"
> _
> ...


Any of these questions will undoubtedly result in the same avalanche of opinions based on personal preference. And unless and until you can use the library yourself, you won't know if that's a personal preference you'll share. Which, of course, leads me once again to my call to developers to work out some sort of demo process, or, as Realitone has, do a refundable 30-day trial.

Then the opinion can be yours and yours alone, with zero risk of wasting your money.


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## Astronaut FX (Mar 27, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Respectfully, what you see as "pointless lexical nitpicking" I see as battling intellectual laziness.



I can understand why you would categorize it in this manner, and I don't completely disagree with you. But when someone is new to something, and they are trying to learn, the amount of information, and more importantly, the amount of misinformation available can range from nonexistent to, as is more often the case, overwhelming. 

I can understand why a new person might simply appeal to a group of perceived experts, and simply ask a general question in terms of "tell me what to do." It may seem lazy, and is on some level, but it probably has as much to do with simply being overwhelmed as it does with laziness.


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## muk (Mar 27, 2017)

Such a phrasing of the question may betray a certain inexperience with sample libraries and how they work. That's not a problem at all in my opinion (if it's careless wording that's another issue). However, this trend seems to affect the answers as well, and that's not good. Answers like "Berlin Strings is the best library hands down if you have the money", or "Spitfire Solo Strings sound the best" spring up quite frequently. Now, that's just bullshit - bullshit that inexperienced users might fall for. And lets not even talk about all the must-haves and nobrainers you encounter on this forum...


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## John Busby (Mar 27, 2017)

Jay no matter how it's phrased it's all subjective any way
one may say what they think the best library is because it's the one they "like" the best.
it's just like movies, one may say what they think the best movie is and although that may be the majority consensus there's still gonna be that one person that would disagree.
to me it's all art and it affects people in different ways and it's used in different ways so personally it doesn't matter to me how it's worded there's still no absolute... and that's not a bad thing


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## Quasar (Mar 27, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Respectfully, what you see as "pointless lexical nitpicking" I see as battling intellectual laziness.


I think words are important too, and perhaps if I were able to see what intellectual rigor were to be gained from admonishing people to frame their questions in such a way so that the implicit subjectivity is always stated explicitly, I would take your point. But I don't.


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## playz123 (Mar 27, 2017)

Just for the record, I too suggested what Jay is asking, more than a few times after the forum was updated, but nothing changed so I just gave up. What I have done though is simply avoid responding most times in those threads, or repeating 'there is no best'. It appears many people do participate though, so perhaps just do what you feel is best. The problem too is that few respondents ever add "in my opinion" and many simply don't have all the libraries that are being mentioned, so how can one then even offer the definitive opinion?


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## Phillip (Mar 27, 2017)

Why micromanage?


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## Quasar (Mar 27, 2017)

playz123 said:


> Just for the record, I too suggested what Jay is asking, more than a few times after the forum was updated, but nothing changed so I just gave up. What I have done though is simply avoid responding most times in those threads, or repeating 'there is no best'. It appears many people do participate though, so perhaps just do what you feel is best. The problem too is that few respondents ever add "in my opinion" and many simply don't have all the libraries that are being mentioned, so how can one then even offer the definitive opinion?


In any obviously opinionated discussion, what is added by the disclaimer "in my opinion" except redundancy?


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## Astronaut FX (Mar 27, 2017)

Phillip said:


> Why micromanage?



Is it micromanaging, or is it helping to provide direction to people seeking feedback as to how they can best frame their questions?

The quality and usefulness of answers to any question, begins with the quality and framing of the original question.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 27, 2017)

Astronaut FX said:


> Is it micromanaging, or is it helping to provide direction to people seeking feedback as to how they can best frame their questions?
> 
> The quality and usefulness of answers to any question, begins with the quality and framing of the original question.




Exactly. Anyway, i am not Emperor of the Forum and I said in the title I did not expect that people would all follow my suggestion, just putting it into the conversation. If it reduces the issue by 10%, it was worth the little time it took me to do it.


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## Quasar (Mar 27, 2017)

Astronaut FX said:


> *The quality and usefulness of answers to any question, begins with the quality and framing of the original question.*



Not necessarily. The question only needs to be good enough for you to get the gist of what the poster means. If I ask you what the "best" x is, it provides you with an opportunity (should you choose) to pontificate on your experience with x, why one x is more useful than another for you, how one has this and that feature but consumes more resources, how this one is very good but twice the cost, etc... It's not rocket science.

And many posters are less than fluent in the native language spoken at VI, but are still able to communicate effectively despite not necessarily "framing" a question exactly the way a native speaker would. Is this a problem too? I certainly don't think so...


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## Astronaut FX (Mar 27, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> Not necessarily. The question only needs to be good enough for you to get the gist of what the poster means. If I ask you what the "best" x is, it provides you with an opportunity (should you choose) to pontificate on your experience with x, why one x is more useful than another for you, how one has this and that feature but consumes more resources, how this one is very good but twice the cost, etc... It's not rocket science.
> 
> And many posters are less than fluent in the native language spoken at VI, but are still able to communicate effectively despite not necessarily "framing" a question exactly the way a native speaker would. Is this a problem too? I certainly don't think so...




Respectfully disagree. If the original question includes information regarding the intended use of the library, and information regarding the priority or importance of factors (ease of use, resource requirements, etc) to the person asking, I would suggest that we don't need to pontificate. We can factor in the additional criteria, and tailor a much more useful response.


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## Quasar (Mar 27, 2017)

Astronaut FX said:


> Respectfully disagree. If the original question includes information regarding the intended use of the library, and information regarding the priority or importance of factors (ease of use, resource requirements, etc) to the person asking, I would suggest that we don't need to pontificate. We can factor in the additional criteria, and tailor a much more useful response.



You don't think that this is already happening naturally and organically? Anyone who asks a sincere question (i.e. because they want an answer) is already naturally motivated to provide what they believe to be the pertinent details to get the most relevant responses possible, although of course communication skills vary widely and the dissemination of information is imperfect, which no amount of admonishment is going to change.

Respectfully, IMHO this is much ado about nothing.


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## thov72 (Mar 27, 2017)

btw...
which forum ist the best for sample libraries n such????


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## playz123 (Mar 27, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> In any obviously opinionated discussion, what is added by the disclaimer "in my opinion" except redundancy?


I suggest that statement is not redundant at all when a respondent appears to be unequivocally stating a library is indeed the best...as a fact. That's more than an opinion, and I suggest it can also be misleading for the person with the question. I've seen it far too often to ignore. I'm sure most would agree that qualifiers are not always redundant. Much depends on what is being expressed and how.


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## Astronaut FX (Mar 27, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> You don't think that this is already happening naturally and organically? Anyone who asks a sincere question (i.e. because they want an answer) is already naturally motivated to provide *what* *they* *believe to be the pertinent details* to get the most relevant responses possible, although of course communication skills vary widely and the dissemination of information is imperfect, which no amount of admonishment is going to change.
> 
> Respectfully, IMHO this is much ado about nothing.



To some extent, I would agree that it is happening organically in some threads. Not so much in others. It's important to remember what it was like to be new to something. In some cases, a person can be so new as to be oblivious to what is (as you suggested) important information to share. The old, "you don't know what you don't know" quandary. 

And I don't have think anyone is attempting to make a big ado about this. I feel like we're simply talking about how we can do a better job of requesting and providing assistance to one another.


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## Quasar (Mar 27, 2017)

playz123 said:


> I suggest that statement is not redundant at all when a respondent appears to be unequivocally stating a library is indeed the best...as a fact. That's more than an opinion, and I suggest it can also be misleading for the person with the question. I've seen it far too often to ignore. I'm sure most would agree that qualifiers are not always redundant. Much depends on what is being expressed and how.



On one level I appreciate your point though I disagree with it. For instance: I am neither a moral nor an aesthetic relativist. I believe that Mozart was a "better" composer than (say) Billy Joel (sorry to pick on him). Furthermore, I believe that Mozart is _objectively_ better, that the music has more substance, goes deeper, and that this is a statement of fact that transcends mere opinion...

... But - and here's the caveat - in any social context such as these forums, I am still just another person stating his opinion. And even though my opinion includes the belief that my assertion is more than just an opinion, the packaged assertion in its entirety remains, outside the universe of my own mind, a statement of opinion.

So I guess my point is that if all we can ever do is express our own perspective, our own point of view, stating as much explicitly whenever we do so is inherently redundant.


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## playz123 (Mar 27, 2017)

No matter whether one agrees or disagrees with Jay's suggestion, ask yourself this: How many times have I viewed one of those threads and immediately noticed it was basically the same question that someone else asked a month or two before? One often notes too that the OP hasn't even bothered to search for answers before posting. Laziness perhaps? Maybe I'm old school, but I always feel I should do a little searching before asking someone else for help. And personally I'm much more inclined to reach out and help when it is obvious someone has first tried to find answers, even if they weren't the right ones. BUT that's certainly not 'a rule'...just mentioned it today as 'food for thought'.


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## Brian2112 (Mar 27, 2017)

Speaking for myself, I had been away from music for about 5 years and had lost track of all the new libraries and innovations. I was able to deduce which libraries were the latest/greatest just by reading these forums, not posting. The information was usually not contained in a "what's the best?" thread. A lot of times I found useful information in threads like "I can't get library X to sync to my host".
Once I was aware of a library I just used my ears to listen to demos and read about user experiences. As I said, that's just me.

Edit: BTW, what's the best "What's the best?" thread on here?


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## mac4d (Mar 27, 2017)

This is the best vi-control thread ever.


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## mjsalam (Mar 27, 2017)

There should be a "Dislike" button.


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## Astronaut FX (Mar 27, 2017)

playz123 said:


> No matter whether one agrees or disagrees with Jay's suggestion, ask yourself this: How many times have I viewed one of those threads and immediately noticed it was basically the same question that someone else asked a month or two before? One often notes too that the OP hasn't even bothered to search for answers before posting. Laziness perhaps? Maybe I'm old school, but I always feel I should do a little searching before asking someone else for help. And personally I'm much more inclined to reach out and help when it is obvious someone has first tried to find answers, even if they weren't the right ones. BUT that's certainly not 'a rule'...just mentioned it today as 'food for thought'.



Agreed, but again, you've got to start somewhere. Before joining here, or even knowing here existed, I asked for some opinions about a library that ended up being my first. It ran on a proprietary engine with very few controls elements. I got by with it for a bit, but now that I work almost exclusively in Kontakt, it sits unused on my hard drive. 

Had I framed my initial questions better, and/or had received responses that prompted additional questions I needed to answer related to longer term goals, I may have made a better choice. 

Maybe not the best example, but looking back, I don't feel like I was lazy. I was just too green to know what I needed to account for in my decision.


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## mc_deli (Mar 27, 2017)

I agree with the OP. As mentioned elsewhere I think VI-c needs more moderation. Merging, locking, deleting OT... This thread would already be moved to OT on all the other fora I use (abuse)...

New users need help... Part of that is being gentle and kind... But part of it is wielding the knife. And stickies!!!

While we're at it I would like VI-c to make it clearer how we can help the site by clicking the ads and buying from VI-c ads and links...


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## Quasar (Mar 27, 2017)

playz123 said:


> No matter whether one agrees or disagrees with Jay's suggestion, ask yourself this: How many times have I viewed one of those threads and immediately noticed it was basically the same question that someone else asked a month or two before? One often notes too that the OP hasn't even bothered to search for answers before posting. Laziness perhaps? Maybe I'm old school, but I always feel I should do a little searching before asking someone else for help. And personally I'm much more inclined to reach out and help when it is obvious someone has first tried to find answers, even if they weren't the right ones. BUT that's certainly not 'a rule'...just mentioned it today as 'food for thought'.



Yeah, there are lazy, ill-thought out posts that can be annoying (which is a bit different from petitioning for precise guidelines on how questions should be asked and assertions made.) And even though I took the other side, I have no issue with Jay or anyone throwing this out there. It's part of the organic nature of how cultures evolve, (hopefully for the better) too.


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## jtnyc (Mar 27, 2017)

I'm surprised to see so many people discussing the idea of telling other people how to ask questions and what is acceptable and what is not. 

I have a great idea, let people ask questions the way they choose, and if you don't like it, don't participate.


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## mc_deli (Mar 27, 2017)

jtnyc said:


> I'm surprised to see so many people discussing the idea of telling other people how to ask questions and what is acceptable and what is not.
> 
> I have a great idea, let people ask questions the way they choose, and if you don't like it, don't participate.


Disagree. Part of musicians helping musicians is to have a forum that works. 33 sub fora, dupe threads, trolling, baiting, affiliate spam... that stuff doesn't help musicians. Surely you agree there has to be some structure... no?


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## sazema (Mar 27, 2017)

... or tell people what library is best and they will not ask again


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## playz123 (Mar 27, 2017)

jtnyc said:


> if you don't like it, don't participate.



I concur; it parallels what I suggested in my first post. I often don't participate...for some of the reasons contained in this thread...and because wading through those types of posts often provides no useful information.  But, having said that, I also believe that others have the right to contribute to them or not, whatever they wish.

As for asking questions, there used to be a great site called something like "How To Ask Questions The Smart Way". There are a number of hits when that phrase is posted on Google, but I can't seem to find the site to which I was referring. In any case, I always thought the tips it contained were excellent, and it was wonderful reference source. Personally I'm a firm believer in learning how and what to ask, in a manner that encourages beneficial responses. Many people excel at posting clear questions, but some do not.


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## R. Soul (Mar 27, 2017)

If nothing else, this thread has put me off starting topics in the fear that the topic might have brought up before, or indeed, is not worded correctly.


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## mjsalam (Mar 27, 2017)

As a relatively new member who enthusiastically _(and in hindsight perhaps naively) _participated in the recent donation cycle it would seem I have contributed to subjecting myself to the judgement of a senior group (committee/tribunal/jury?) who based upon the following (inferred) criteria would like to determine whether or not my question is "polluting" the forum or otherwise offending sensibilities.

applied due diligence in researching a question prior to asking it _(how much diligence should be or has been applied is pretty difficult to determine so I guess it will be case by case? Perhaps influenced by lack of sleep, indigestion etc.)_
phrasing of a question _(judged based on what...Specificity? Grammar? Humour? Originality? Current level of irritability of those reading?...)_
overall perceived laziness..._(whatever that means)_
Perhaps the next fundraiser should be for some kind of "annoying question" heuristics scanner at least then it wouldn't feel personal.

Just prior to the OP I had done a search in the forum for a library I was considering. Last related post was 2012. I wouldn't have thought twice about asking...now...not so sure.


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## Puzzlefactory (Mar 27, 2017)

Haha, yes and resurrecting dead threads is taboo, etiquette wise too.


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## Astronaut FX (Mar 27, 2017)

I think perhaps some of us are being overly sensitive, or maybe some of us are failing to adequately express our points. Maybe both.

Speaking for myself, I can tell you that my thoughts on the matter are coming purely from a "how can my responses to questions add the most value" standpoint, and in no way were intended to come across as judgmental or as a way to control how people post or ask questions.

I manage people for a living, and part of what I've learned through that experience, is that I rarely answer questions without first asking a few. I've learned that often times, people don't really directly ask what's on their minds. They ask questions as a way to gather information to answer their actual questions. I find that if, by asking clarifying questions, I can get at their actual question, and thus provide a more complete and valuable answer.

If we're fine with the status quo of continuing to ask "which is best" questions, and each of us responding with our personal favorites, I can live with that.

At the same time, I believe that with a minimal adjustment to our approach, we can begin to bring context into those kinds of threads, and add to the overall value of the already very good community.


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## JonSolo (Mar 27, 2017)

There are some valid and interesting points here. But one thing I have not seen mentioned (or I missed it) which likely is the core reason the question gets asked "Which is the best.....Library?" and that is- there are libraries CONSTANTLY being released or updated, etc.

From the time that the recent "best" library thread got started till the time of the last post there have been:

6 new libraries released and or updated
4 of these had a time related sale (the new ones)
2 older libraries were put on ridiculous sales motivating questions about current value or relevance
and a partridge in a pear tree...

About two weeks ago I opened a "joke" thread about "Best/Fav Brass" because of all the string threads. That and I was and still am looking to bolster my HWB library (another story on another thread). But in all seriousness...with the speed at which some of these libraries are hitting and the claims that some of them make, IT MAKES MORE SENSE that we actually see MORE threads asking that question. Things change. And some things COULD BE game changers...even though many of us here are so cynical with "advertising" that we immediately think it's the devil.

A professor once said, "there are no wrong answers, but it is the question that is in question." I think I agree with that philosophy in general. But I also believe there are legitimate issues that create the need for "Which is the best..." to be revisited quite often in the world of software libraries.


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## Quasar (Mar 27, 2017)

mjsalam said:


> As a relatively new member who enthusiastically _(and in hindsight perhaps naively) _participated in the recent donation cycle it would seem I have contributed to subjecting myself to the judgement of a senior group (committee/tribunal/jury?) who based upon the following (inferred) criteria would like to determine whether or not my question is "polluting" the forum or otherwise offending sensibilities.
> 
> applied due diligence in researching a question prior to asking it _(how much diligence should be or has been applied is pretty difficult to determine so I guess it will be case by case? Perhaps influenced by lack of sleep, indigestion etc.)_
> phrasing of a question _(judged based on what...Specificity? Grammar? Humour? Originality? Current level of irritability of those reading?...)_
> ...



By all means if you have a question about a library, you should simply go ahead and start a thread and ask. I could be wrong, but I don't think _anyone_ in this thread has been motivated by a desire to censor or induce a "chill" surrounding inquiry in the forum environment. And even if anyone does wish to cast aspersions, just blow it off. That's their problem, not yours.

This is, after all, as _sample library discussion_ board...


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## chibear (Mar 27, 2017)

mjsalam said:


> whether or not my question is "polluting" the forum or otherwise offending sensibilities.



Actually it's not the question but rather uninformed responses that pollute the forum. Asking the question as outlined in the OP or library-specific questions will bring responses from

1) ppl who own the libraries being discussed and are able to offer a fair comparison and informed opinion

2) ppl who own one library and think it is the epitome of development

3) ppl who don't own any of the libraries but base their 'informed' opinions on developers' demos they listened to on their iPhone with $9.95 earbuds.

4) ppl who don't own a DAW, can't read music, and can't play an instrument, but have googled a lot and have an impressive vocabulary.

5) developers advancing their agenda.

6) ppl with personal vendettas against certain developers.

A question phrased as Jay's in the OP or even general questions about a specific library brings out categories 2-6 in droves. The only practical use I get out of the 'Sample Talk' are names of libs to look at that I might have missed in my own research. Any opinions expressed have to be filtered according to individual credebility.


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## Mike Greene (Mar 27, 2017)

mjsalam said:


> As a relatively new member who enthusiastically _(and in hindsight perhaps naively) _participated in the recent donation cycle it would seem I have contributed to subjecting myself to the judgement of a senior group (committee/tribunal/jury?) who based upon the following (inferred) criteria would like to determine whether or not my question is "polluting" the forum or otherwise offending sensibilities.
> 
> applied due diligence in researching a question prior to asking it _(how much diligence should be or has been applied is pretty difficult to determine so I guess it will be case by case? Perhaps influenced by lack of sleep, indigestion etc.)_
> phrasing of a question _(judged based on what...Specificity? Grammar? Humour? Originality? Current level of irritability of those reading?...)_
> ...


Speaking as a moderator here, feel free to ask whatever questions you like. This thread, while entertaining for people who spend a lot of time on forums, is not policy. Anyone who doesn't like a thread topic, or how a subject line is worded, is free to not read it.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 27, 2017)

Yeah, as usual Mike is right when he says what I was going to say.

There are lots of silly threads - here and on all fora (thanks for that word, mc_deli!) - so you just ignore ones that don't look interesting to you.

Now. Which speakers are the best?


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## j_kranz (Mar 27, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Which speakers are the best?



Clearly the loudest ones Nick!


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## LamaRose (Mar 27, 2017)

Smikes77 said:


> All jokes aside...
> 
> Which string library IS the best?



For intimate, soloistic compositions, Orchestral Tools Ark I is what you need. Trust me on this one.
For EPIC, in-your-face mightiness, Sonokinetic's Minimal is what you need. Trust me on this one.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 27, 2017)

Mike Greene said:


> Speaking as a moderator here, feel free to ask whatever questions you like. This thread, while entertaining for people who spend a lot of time on forums, is not policy. Anyone who doesn't like a thread topic, or how a subject line is worded, is free to not read it.



Of course. As I said, I am not (fortunately for the "nobody can tell me what I should and should not do crowd") Emperor of the Forum. Also, I titled the thread "My request". By definition, a request is not an order.

I said what I said, I believe it. If people disagree they disagree. I have no probably with people making judgements. Without judgements, there is no forward progress in any human endeavor. I reserve the right to make them and express them, knowing full well that it may bring judgement on me in return. All fine with me.


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## Smikes77 (Mar 27, 2017)

LamaRose said:


> For intimate, soloistic compositions, Orchestral Tools Ark I is what you need. Trust me on this one.
> For EPIC, in-your-face mightiness, Sonokinetic's Minimal is what you need. Trust me on this one.



I'm sorry, even though I said 'all jokes aside', I was just kidding!


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## creativeforge (Mar 27, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Fine, then let's educate them as to the difference between samples and real players, good sample library vs other good sample library, etc.. "Musicians helping musicians" right?



That is a good suggestion. Which I think is best done in threads asking the question. I know it is impossible for many to think like a newbie with all things samples, but we're all a newbie in certain fields of interest or competence. So we can put ourselves in their shoes and can bring suggestions.

I think Musicians Helping Musicians still works in those instances.


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## SterlingArcher (Mar 27, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Please, folks, stop starting threads titled _"Which (fill in the blanks) library is the best?"_
> 
> There is no "the best." There is only that which you like best or which serves your writing the best. Which does not make it the best.
> 
> ...


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## SoNowWhat? (Mar 27, 2017)

Brian2112 said:


> Speaking for myself, I had been away from music for about 5 years and had lost track of all the new libraries and innovations. I was able to deduce which libraries were the latest/greatest just by reading these forums, not posting. The information was usually not contained in a "what's the best?" thread. A lot of times I found useful information in threads like "I can't get library X to sync to my host".
> Once I was aware of a library I just used my ears to listen to demos and read about user experiences. As I said, that's just me.
> 
> Edit: BTW, what's the best "What's the best?" thread on here?


I was a lurker here for a while before I opened an account and then lurked even longer still before posting. I learned heaps.

Oh, and musicians helping musicians.


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## kitekrazy (Mar 27, 2017)

I hate the ones that say which soundcard is the best for X Daw. Then not to bother what they are willing to spend. I can easily recommend any $1000+ RME unit. These are often people who have shelled out quite a bit for hardware and want to go budget on an audio interface.


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## creativeforge (Mar 27, 2017)

chibear said:


> Actually it's not the question but rather uninformed responses that pollute the forum. Asking the question as outlined in the OP or library-specific questions will bring responses from
> 
> 1) ppl who own the libraries being discussed and are able to offer a fair comparison and informed opinion
> 
> ...



Good job, Canada, thank you.


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## jtnyc (Mar 27, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> Disagree. Part of musicians helping musicians is to have a forum that works. 33 sub fora, dupe threads, trolling, baiting, affiliate spam... that stuff doesn't help musicians. Surely you agree there has to be some structure... no?



Not sure what your disagreeing with, I never mentioned duped threads, trolling, baiting, or affiliate spam, nor did the OP. I mentioned the notion that people are discussing what they think is the proper way to ask a question and what words are acceptable and what words are not. As far as I'm concerned, it's just nit picky hall monitoring. 

If someone who's native language is Japanese and they ask "what's the best ____", they might very well be just looking for peoples favorites, but "best" is the english word that translated that idea for them. What's your best string library? Whats the best string library? Whatever... Someone else might not be so experienced and just want to get a general idea of what more experienced users favor and that's how they ask. This is not a forum for the perfectly spoken english, it's a multi cultural forum to discuss music and technology. Who cares if they say best or your favorite or your best.... If you don't like it, don't engage. If you must, then just say, this one is my favorite for this and that etc, but I don't believe there is a best... see, your the one who is bothered by it, so you should be the one to adjust, not tell everyone else to adjust to your preferences.


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## creativeforge (Mar 27, 2017)

I think if we don't know what to answer except to focus on "the way" the question was asked, we may select to let others answer. Or make suggestions that don't make a big deal of a naively asked question. As long as it doesn't turn out to be a troll (we don't have those here). If so, there are ways of dealing with those. But this is not what is addressed here obviously.


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## Geoff Grace (Mar 27, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> it is the best DAW


_(Edited and quoted out of context for the fun of it.  )_

I have to admit that I've never been a fan of subjective or contextual opinions being stated as if they were absolute truths. That said, it would be a boring world if we all spoke the same way.

Best,

Geoff


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## creativeforge (Mar 27, 2017)




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## mac (Mar 27, 2017)

If threads had a smell, this one would smell of mothballs and stale urine.


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## creativeforge (Mar 28, 2017)

Thread was moved to the beach bar (Off-Topics).


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## SoNowWhat? (Mar 28, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> Thread was moved to the beach bar (Off-Topics).


Is that so we can all chill with a piña colada?


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## creativeforge (Mar 28, 2017)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Is that so we can all chill with a piña colada?



Word is Jay's buying. I'm 16 years sober so I won't join...


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## NYC Composer (Mar 28, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> Word is Jay's buying. I'm 16 years sober so I won't join...


THAT explains it.


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## SoNowWhat? (Mar 28, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> Word is Jay's buying. I'm 16 years sober so I won't join...


My guess is any bar staff worth their salt could knock you one up sans rum. On second thoughts get them to put your share in mine.

oh and for Jay.


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## creativeforge (Mar 28, 2017)

NYC Composer said:


> THAT explains it.



Should have seen me drunk and all frosty. Not a pretty sight. Now I have a life!


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## creativeforge (Mar 28, 2017)

SoNowWhat? said:


> My guess is any bar staff worth their salt could knock you one up sans rum. On second thoughts get them to put your share in mine.



By all means, enjoy... Never been a rum guy anyways.


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## SoNowWhat? (Mar 28, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> Should have seen me drunk and all frosty. Not a pretty sight. Now I have a life!


Props for that. I have a tendency to make light of somewhat serious matters.


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## creativeforge (Mar 28, 2017)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Props for that. I have a tendency to make light of somewhat serious matters.



Ah no worries, it's all in good spirit I know...


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## NYC Composer (Mar 28, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> Should have seen me drunk and all frosty. Not a pretty sight. Now I have a life!


You call THAT a life??

(Ok, ok, just kidding....mostly.)


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## Ultraxenon (Mar 28, 2017)

I think it could be usefull to have a poll about string librarys ect for everyone that just have started or want to start using orchestra samples. Its a jungle out there so if a newbie sees the most popular string librarys on this forum they maybe dig deeper to get even more information about thoose two string librarys. Maybe this is not exactly what he or her are looking for, but anyway a good start. Usally as a first time buyer you look for a allround library if so these polls could be helpful. When you are buying your third library you know what you want when it comes to sound and workflow.


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## creativeforge (Mar 28, 2017)

NYC Composer said:


> You call THAT a life??
> (Ok, ok, just kidding....mostly.)


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## Desire Inspires (Mar 28, 2017)

I can't honor this request. Now tell me which library is best!


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## Ashermusic (Mar 29, 2017)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Is that so we can all chill with a piña colada?



Sissy man drink. I am a single malt scotch guy, occasionally a bourbon.


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## catsass (Mar 29, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Now. Which speakers are the best?


The pair arranged in a precise equilateral triangle.


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## SoNowWhat? (Mar 29, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Sissy man drink. I am a single malt scotch guy, occasionally a bourbon.


Ok. Make mine a McCallan (18yo), with a single cube of ice. And one of those little umbrellas.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 29, 2017)

Exactly 3', catsass, no more no less, with lots of foam on the side walls. I learned that on YouTube.


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## creativeforge (Mar 29, 2017)

3 feet of foam, as Nick suggested. 3 feet away as well from the speakers. Location location location!


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## catsass (Mar 31, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Exactly 3', catsass, no more no less, with lots of foam on the side walls. I learned that on YouTube.


I've seen that video. Free-Range, Gluten-Free Foam is apparently critical.


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