# Dammit! Uncertain again over new build CPU choice!



## jamieboo (Feb 8, 2022)

Hello folks

Aaargh!
There I was, pretty much all resolved in my new build plan: 5900x with a MSI X570S Tomahawk board (128GB RAM, PCIe 4 nvme m.2's, and using my existing 1080ti GPU)
But now, for no reason, I'm thinking - Maybe I should go with the i7 12700k!

These are the two options I've been vacillating between for the last 2 months. But I really thought I was finally resolved in my 5900x decision!

I know they are pretty comparable in their performance.
The Intel has the edge in gaming. I do game.
And in most other benchmarks the Intel pulls ahead.
And I think generally the Intels are said to have the lower latency - which I think is important.

However in DawBench the Ryzen performed a bit better in the VI polyphony test - if keeping everything DDR4.

I will definitely be staying with DDR4 for the foreseeable. And the kind of stuff I do is dense, fairly traditional, Williamsy, symphonic stuff - so, VI heavy.
My template is 99% EW Hollywood Orchestra (PLAY for now; OPUS once I build the new PC).
So, the DawBench results would suggest that, for my usage, the Ryzen would perform slightly better.
But in practice would I really notice that benefit?

I guess I'm uncertain again because the 12700k is a good £100 cheaper than the 5900x. So that's a £100 less for what is, in most situations, the better CPU. If I got the Ryzen would I feel the benefit of that £100 extra spend?

Once built I don't tend to upgrade much. So the extra Intel temptations of future DDR5 benefits or PCIe 5 don't really mean much. I will build this machine (DDR4 and PCIe 4) and keep it for 5 years or so until I build a new one. But even though these particular 'future proofy' benefits and upgrade paths don't mean much to me, maybe I should still go with the Intel?
But then again I like the energy efficiency of the Ryzens, and I think they run a little cooler too, right?

One thing of note, I do want to build in the next month, so despite it being a temptation, I will not be waiting for the AM5 Ryzens towards the end of the year. (Probably won't be tempted by the 5800 refresh with 3D VCache either, though I am wondering if that release may affect prices.)
So I really am looking purely at the choice now between the 5900x and the 12700k.

As some of the fine folk of this forum would have had plenty of experience of these two options by now, I'm very keen to hear what you all think!

For the stuff I do - dense, busy, traditional orchestral music using EW libraries - which of these two CPUs would be best? And would any difference in performance, stability, latency etc be noticeable?

I really need your help with this folks!!

Thanks


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## doctoremmet (Feb 8, 2022)

jamieboo said:


> But in practice would I really notice that benefit?


Tl;DR
No


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## jamieboo (Feb 8, 2022)

Yeah - sorry for the long rambling post.

Basically, composers who write non-hybrid orchestral stuff who have been using either the 5900x or the 12700k, how are you finding it?
Given the kind of music I write and the libraries I use which would you recommend?

Thanks


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## José Herring (Feb 8, 2022)

jamieboo said:


> Yeah - sorry for the long rambling post.
> 
> Basically, composers who write non-hybrid orchestral stuff who have been using either the 5900x or the 12700k, how are you finding it?
> Given the kind of music I write and the libraries I use which would you recommend?
> ...


I honestly don't think that the choice of computer has a bearing on what kind of music is made with it. 

I personally use the i7 10700k. I also built a Ryzen machine as a slave but recently just moved everything over to the i7. I will get the 12700k chip soon and use that for a few years probably. 

I'm a heavy user of the HOOPUS and quite frankly you won't have any problems. Play 6 ran great on it and OPUS player even better. 

You'll start to have some problems with Spitfire stuff if you decide to go spitfire player route. Really inefficient player that can only run about 2 mic positions before it gets into serious trouble. 

OPUS on the other hand can run 4 mic positions on my i7 and not even break a sweat. I'm having so few performance issues that I've had a hard time justifying upgrading the CPU.

Either way you go though, it will work out great. My Ryzen slave is a beast. I'm thinking of upgrading it and using it as my main machine but for now, I'm happy on my i7.


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## Pictus (Feb 8, 2022)

jamieboo said:


> Hello folks
> 
> Aaargh!
> There I was, pretty much all resolved in my new build plan: 5900x with a MSI X570S Tomahawk board (128GB RAM, PCIe 4 nvme m.2's, and using my existing 1080ti GPU)
> But now, for no reason, I'm thinking - Maybe I should go with the i7 12700k!


Try to get a Ryzen step B2








AMD Ryzen 5000 'Zen 3' B2 Stepping Tested: CPUs Offer Lower Temperatures, Lower Power Consumption, Stable Boost Clocks & Better DDR4 Support


AMD Ryzen 5000 'Zen 3' B2 Stepping CPUs have been tested & offer lower temps, lower power, stable clocks & better DDR4 support.




wccftech.com


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## jamieboo (Feb 8, 2022)

Oh Pictus, last time you were kind enough to comment on a thread of mine I was pretty much decided! Now look at me! 

This is interesting about the B2 stepping revision.
Obviously a B2 is now the Ryzen to get. But even with the seeming improvement B2 brings, does this really change the '5900x or 12700k' question?
Thanks

And thanks José for your earlier response. I know either of these will do the job well, but I'm still stuck!

Any others folk with opinions either way?

Thanks


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## sostenuto (Feb 8, 2022)

Soon to Upgrade somewhat as posted. Insufficient chops to sort DDR4 _ 128GB vs DDR5 64GB. 
Which way is 'clearly' best for daily home studio DAW work, yet small track counts in mainstream templates.


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## Pictus (Feb 8, 2022)

jamieboo said:


> Oh Pictus, last time you were kind enough to comment on a thread of mine I was pretty much decided! Now look at me!
> 
> This is interesting about the B2 stepping revision.
> Obviously a B2 is now the Ryzen to get. But even with the seeming improvement B2 brings, does this really change the '5900x or 12700k' question?
> Thanks


Probably not.


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## jamieboo (Feb 9, 2022)

Pictus said:


> Probably not.


Aaargh! 😆
I'm so indecisive with this stuff!
Pictus, I think you've said recently that, right now, your preference inclines towards Ryzen over Intel. Why is that, given that the Intel *seems* to be the better - and cheaper - processor?

Thanks


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## zedmaster (Feb 9, 2022)

Built a 5900x PC last week for music and video production, using my old gtx 1080 and 128GB DDR 4 RAM. Love it. Honestly, don't overthink it. If this build is what you have planned with and it's in your budget go for it. You already got information overload, looked at benchmarks, watched youtube videos... You already picked a mainboard for the 5900x, so you might as well go with it.


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## jamieboo (Feb 9, 2022)

Thanks zedmaster - I know, I'm being silly!
So you're very happy with your 5900x build? What made you go for the Ryzen over an equivalent Intel?

And here's some more overthinking...
I guess another consideration is the motherboard/chipset. The X570 platform is quite old now. Will an equivalent Z690 board have advantages simply because it is much more modern tech?

Thanks


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## zedmaster (Feb 9, 2022)

jamieboo said:


> Thanks zedmaster - I know, I'm being silly!
> So you're very happy with your 5900x build? What made you go for the Ryzen over an equivalent Intel?
> 
> And here's some more overthinking...
> ...


Yes, very happy. Just as happy as I would have been with an equivalent intel. Deciding factor for me was that the B550 mainboard I chose had the next-day delivery option in South Korea


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## Pictus (Feb 9, 2022)

jamieboo said:


> Aaargh! 😆
> I'm so indecisive with this stuff!
> Pictus, I think you've said recently that, right now, your preference inclines towards Ryzen over Intel. Why is that, given that the Intel *seems* to be the better - and cheaper - processor?
> 
> Thanks


Games = Intel DDR4/5
DDR5 DAW = Intel
DDR4 DAW = AMD

Looks like next Intel CPU will also supports LGA1700/DDR4.
If you plan to update to next CPU, Intel seems to be the best bet.
With the Z690/H670/B660 we get built-in USB 3.2 GEN 2x2(20 Gbit/s)









Intel 13th Gen Raptor Lake: Everything you need to know about Intel’s next-gen processors


Intel's 13th-generation processors are here!




www.xda-developers.com









Intel's next-gen 13th Gen Core 'Raptor Lake': DDR4 support, DDR5 too


Intel's next-gen Raptor Lake CPU will also support DDR5 + DDR4 memory, so don't throw away your DDR4 memory just yet, you're fine.




www.tweaktown.com





It is the "anti-Intel" in me that prefers the AMD...


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## jamieboo (Feb 9, 2022)

Gotcha!
I guess I'm just struggling with the fact that in a single dawbench test, VI polyphony with DDR4, the 5900x came out fractionally ahead - and I *think* thats the test that most represents my usage. While in all other tests, dawbench or otherwise, the 12700k is better. And cheaper.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 9, 2022)

You're overthinking this Lol! Don't look at the benchmark tests as your primary deciding factors. IMO, stick with the devil you know; if you've had a good experience with Intel, stick with Intel. You can't go wrong with Intel, my last slave build was an i7 10700 and it could handle a massive template without breaking a sweat. The ONLY reason I sold it is because my new iMac can now handle everything without the need for the slave (and it's also an i7). Just remember, no matter what you get, it's already outdated as soon as you buy it.


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## jamieboo (Feb 10, 2022)

Thanks, Jeremy.
Yes. Maybe. I've had an i7 5820 since '15 and I've been very happy with it.
Right then!
What DDR4 motherboard might people recommend for a 12700k (around the £250 mark)?
I was just reading about the Asus TUF z690 PLUS D4 - it seems pretty solid?
Any thoughts on this board, or any other contenders?

Thank you all so much!


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## zedmaster (Feb 10, 2022)

jamieboo said:


> Thanks, Jeremy.
> Yes. Maybe. I've had an i7 5820 since '15 and I've been very happy with it.
> Right then!
> What DDR4 motherboard might people recommend for a 12700k (around the £250 mark)?
> ...


There are dozens of great articles for this, and I think it's summarized better than anyone here could do. Example, but simply enter "mainboard for 12700k" and you will see tons of these articles, and they will all revolve around the same mainboards.

And remember all the great music you can write in all these hours wondering and worrying, with either of these CPU/mainboard choices, as long as 128GB RAM, and modern stuff like M2 and PCIe 4.0 are supported


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## jamieboo (Feb 11, 2022)

Thanks zedmaster!
Yes, it was exactly that page, among others, that prompted the idea of the Asus TUF Z690 Plus D4.
It seems pretty good. But then so does the MSI Z690 Tomahawk.
Anyone had hands on experience with these or similar boards?

Thanks


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## jamieboo (Feb 12, 2022)

Has Gigabyte sorted out its BIOS problems on its DDR4 boards yet?


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## thereus (Feb 12, 2022)

The reason you are uncertain is that the question you are asking cannot be answered at the moment. Nobody knows yet how the new approach to performance cores / low power cores that Intel has taken might play out for audio work until software houses get around to optimising for it. They are not usual known for responding to architectural changes rapidly. Pick one and run with it. If it turns out that you’ve lost out on a few tracks of capacity somewhere down the line you will never notice. If you dither now, you will lose a bunch of time for music making.


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## jamieboo (Feb 12, 2022)

You are right, thereus.
And I suppose that would be a point in AMDs favour, as the AM4 platform is mature and Ryzen 5000s have been nicely run in now.
Hmm.
Fortunately, I _can_ continue writing while faffing in indecision.
The only real downside is my own frustration and you poor souls having to tolerate my endless questions!


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## Pictus (Feb 12, 2022)

jamieboo said:


> Has Gigabyte sorted out its BIOS problems on its DDR4 boards yet?


They improved, how good I do not know.
Look at the Memory Support List to avoid bad surprises.


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## jamieboo (Feb 13, 2022)

Thanks Pictus.
If going Intel, I have narrowed down to the following DDR4 boards. I don't think there is much between them, but I would value your insight.

Asus TUF Gaming Z690 Plus D4
MSI MAG Z690 Tomahawk DDR4
ASRock Z690 Extreme (or possibly the ASRock Z690 Steel Legend - I can't work out how these two boards differ)

Any opinions on any of these?

Thanks so much.


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## Pictus (Feb 13, 2022)

Not first hand experience, most specification and some review.

The onboard audio in the ASUS is crap, but it is not relevant for people here.
IF you ever plan to buy TB(Thunderbolt) audio interface, the Asus have a TB header
you can add a TB card with the ports, I also prefer the 2 USB-C in the back.





it also has an easier way to install the M.2 SSDs.




If the above stuff is not relevant and you want 6 SATA ports, get the MSI.





The VRM in the ASUS/MSI is equivalent, the ASRock is inferior.


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## jamieboo (Feb 13, 2022)

Thanks so much Pictus!
Interesting how things change. My last build (2015) was a 5820k with an ASRock Extreme6 board. And I think, at the time, a main reason for going for that board was that ASRock had some of the best VRMs and power delivery.


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## Pictus (Feb 13, 2022)

You are welcome!
It depends on the model, like from a Chevrolet Spark to a Corvette.
the ASRock Z690 Taichi has a very strong VRM.


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