# Ryzen 5950x vs i9 10980xe for orchestral/other composition



## Dom100 (Nov 20, 2020)

I have followed many threads on this excellent forum but this is my 1st new thread. I am getting a new bespoke music PC system and could really do with some advice from seasoned VI users. I currently have an i7 6700K with 128 Gg RAM, running an RME Raydat PCIe card. I write a lot of mainly contemporary orchestral music (although do other styles) using Cubase with VST Instruments, one instrument per instance, so all monotimbral. My current limitations are usually processing power. I use Izotope, Lexicon, Soundtoys, Waves and other plugins, not as liberally as you might use on a pop track, but it seems ever more important in the world of modern production. I would run say 100-150+ VSTi’s like this and say 50-100+ audio tracks, using say 80-110 Gg RAM.

My questions:

If I get an 18 Core i9 10980XE (allowing also for the potential Core/multithread limit issues) and 256 Gg RAM, and then run say 200 + VSTi’s plus multiple audio tracks, would I feel a bigger processor upgrade pro rata (as I have 16-18 cores in the new system vs 8 cores in the old and the benchmark of the i9 is almost 30k vs 13k of the old system, so over 2.5 times the power vs only double the RAM upgrade)? If so, presumably then I wouldn’t have to raise buffer settings quite as soon in the production stage? I know the ratios are never as simple as this, but general thoughts welcome.
Or I could get an AMD 5950X, which would easily beat the i9 on a DAWbench DSP test, and probably on a VI test. I could then use the Kontakt, Spitfire, Sine purge/equivalent functions (at the start of a template) to limit RAM to 128 Gg. I haven’t done this on my current system, but as I expand my samples and RAM usage I could easily have a template running over 128 Gg RAM without purging. With purging though, the RAM would be much smaller and I could run a bigger template of instruments and FX than the i9 I think? Currently I might need to use 3200 MHz RAM with the 5950X to get the full 128 Gg, which has its drawbacks, but overall it should still out power the i9. 
I think the advantage of the 5950X would be a really fast live playable processor, even under heavy track loads (as I could keep the buffer lower), as long as I could limit the RAM. Or is the view that the i9 is plenty powerful and I should have the RAM available? I really want to get past the feeling that the PC is sluggish under heavier loads.

I should also say I am going to get some M2’s in RAID for really fast load times. 

I may add VEPro to the set up, but want the ability to do it all in Cubase for the most part for convenience, and also I can transport it as a portable rack.

Thanks in advance.


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## Manaberry (Nov 20, 2020)

I assume you don't use your mixing tools (Izotope, Soundtoys, and so on) directly on your composition session but on a proper mixing project with bounced audio files?


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## Dom100 (Nov 20, 2020)

Manaberry said:


> I assume you don't use your mixing tools (Izotope, Soundtoys, and so on) directly on your composition session but on a proper mixing project with bounced audio files?


Thanks for the quick reply. It's a bit of a hybrid approach, so yes I do use these on the session, and then carry them through to a separate mix, but often due to late changes on a project I have to do it all in the one session. Also, often I feel the need to use them as part of the sound design as I go as well


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## easyrider (Nov 20, 2020)

5950X


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## Pictus (Nov 20, 2020)

Dom100 said:


> My questions:



IF you go for the 5950X, this is the RAM to get https://pcpartpicker.com/product/7Z...x-32-gb-ddr4-3600-cl16-memory-bl2k32g36c16u4b
The review https://aphnetworks.com/reviews/crucial-ballistix-ddr4-3600-2x32gb
The test in 128GB 3600MHz https://aphnetworks.com/reports/128...2gb-ddr4-ram-amd-ryzen-performance-benchmarks


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## Dom100 (Nov 20, 2020)

Pictus said:


> IF you go for the 5950X, this is the RAM to get https://pcpartpicker.com/product/7Z...x-32-gb-ddr4-3600-cl16-memory-bl2k32g36c16u4b
> The review https://aphnetworks.com/reviews/crucial-ballistix-ddr4-3600-2x32gb
> The test in 128GB 3600MHz https://aphnetworks.com/reports/128...2gb-ddr4-ram-amd-ryzen-performance-benchmarks


Thanks very much Pictus. Will check it out


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## Dom100 (Nov 20, 2020)

easyrider said:


> 5950X


Thanks very much, so you reckon if I purge, the performance ratio would be better with 5950X and should be OK with RAM, or to put it another way, I'm more likely to face performance issues with the i9 processor?


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## ComposerWannabe (Nov 20, 2020)

Pictus said:


> IF you go for the 5950X, this is the RAM to get https://pcpartpicker.com/product/7Z...x-32-gb-ddr4-3600-cl16-memory-bl2k32g36c16u4b
> The review https://aphnetworks.com/reviews/crucial-ballistix-ddr4-3600-2x32gb
> The test in 128GB 3600MHz https://aphnetworks.com/reports/128...2gb-ddr4-ram-amd-ryzen-performance-benchmarks




Why not 16x4? I'm asking because I have a Ryzen 5600x build with MSi Tomahawk (a daisy chain mobo).

Do you think staying at dual ram is especially important? I'm not sure If I made a mistake not buying a t-topology mobo.


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## Manaberry (Nov 21, 2020)

Dom100 said:


> Thanks very much, so you reckon if I purge, the performance ratio would be better with 5950X and should be OK with RAM, or to put it another way, I'm more likely to face performance issues with the i9 processor?



On the specs chart, the 5950X is far better. Real-world audio benchmark, nobody knows. Nothing has been released yet.


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## Dom100 (Nov 21, 2020)

Manaberry said:


> On the specs chart, the 5950X is far better. Real-world audio benchmark, nobody knows. Nothing has been released yet.


Thanks Manaberry. I agree I don't want to jump the gun, but I believe the audio benchmarks will prove very positive from early tests. Assuming they are, I was wondering whether you would prefer to have the extra RAM (256 vs 128), or whether you would say, go for the extra processing power, and use purge functions etc to manage resources better (or whether from your own experience you'd still say RAM is king!)?


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## Pictus (Nov 21, 2020)

ComposerWannabe said:


> Why not 16x4? I'm asking because I have a Ryzen 5600x build with MSi Tomahawk (a daisy chain mobo).
> 
> Do you think staying at dual ram is especially important? I'm not sure If I made a mistake not buying a t-topology mobo.



Tomahawk:
B450 = RAM up to 4133MHz
X570 = RAM up to 4600MHz
B550 = RAM up to 5100MHz

MSI/ASUS/Gigabyte have improving(depends on the model) the memory wiring paths, even
with daisy chain 4 sticks is not a problem.
Buy Crucial RAM, we know works very well!
Anyway, if possible I prefer to stay with only 2 RAM sticks dual rank.


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## ComposerWannabe (Nov 21, 2020)

Pictus said:


> Tomahawk:
> B450 = RAM up to 4133MHz
> X570 = RAM up to 4600MHz
> B550 = RAM up to 5100MHz
> ...



That is exactly what I was wondering. The final build I'd have would be a 64GB of RAM.

But I've bought a single stick of 16GB ram hoping to make it a four stick. Maybe I should 32x2 because of daisy chain. I'm torn between the decision :(

it's an x570 tomahawk by the way.


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## ComposerWannabe (Nov 22, 2020)

Pictus said:


> IF you go for the 5950X, this is the RAM to get https://pcpartpicker.com/product/7Z...x-32-gb-ddr4-3600-cl16-memory-bl2k32g36c16u4b
> The review https://aphnetworks.com/reviews/crucial-ballistix-ddr4-3600-2x32gb
> The test in 128GB 3600MHz https://aphnetworks.com/reports/128...2gb-ddr4-ram-amd-ryzen-performance-benchmarks



I just want to mention the problem with these sticks.

I bought the 16GB version of it and it turns out the Corsair changed their sticks compared to their older good models.

Their RAM used to be Rev.E, these newer ones are Rev.B (which are worse quality) Also, older 16GB sticks were dual rank and these new ones are Single Rank.

The full model name of the stick I've bought: BL16G36C16U4R.M8FB1

Their page only displays the BL16G36C16U4R part and the M8FB1 information is missing. E1 ones are the older good models which are dual-rank Rev.E


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## Pictus (Nov 22, 2020)

ComposerWannabe said:


> I just want to mention the problem with these sticks.
> 
> I bought the 16GB version of it and it turns out the *Corsair *changed their sticks compared to their older good models.
> 
> Their RAM used to be Rev.E, these newer ones are Rev.B (which are worst quality) Also, older 16GB sticks were dual rank and these new ones are Single Rank.








It is Crucial, the 2x32 in the link it is the NEW Micron *16*Gbit B-Die, do not confuse with the OLD
Micron *8*Gbit B-Die, the new stock of 2x16GB kits are now Micron *16*Gbit B-Die *single *rank
and not the Micron *8*Gbit *E*-Die *dual *rank, but this new *16*Gbit B-Die is good, +- the same as the* E*-Die, the 2x32 kit is DUAL rank.

From https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/micron-16gbit-b-die-ddr4.1276765/page-6#post-27837734
"Little update: I got my BL2K32G36C16U4B (2x 32GB 3600MHZ) and my 5950x yesterday. The RAM is awesome. I just dialed in 4200 on XMP / Auto settings and it just worked(...)"

From https://www.computerbase.de/forum/threads/amd-ryzen-ram-oc-community.1829356/page-678#post-23004580
"As of recently, 16Gbit Micron Rev B is also possible on the 2x16GB 3600 CL16, then as a single rank. These behave very similarly to the 8Gbit Rev E and can also be overclocked excellently. Also found on 4000 CL18 and 4400 CL19 kits in 2x16GB."

The 1usmus DRAM Calculator for Ryzen needs update, but we can use the settings from Micron *E*-Die.








NEW!!! DRAM Calculator for Ryzen™ 1.7.3 (overclocking...


AMD Ryzen Memory Tweaking & Overclocking Guide https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Ryzen_Memory_Tweaking_Overclocking_Guide/ MEMbench 0.6 README https://www.overclock.net/forum/27960952-post4412.html HOW USE MEMTEST in MEMbench https://www.overclock.net/forum/28069030-post5047.html...




www.overclock.net


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## ComposerWannabe (Nov 22, 2020)

Pictus said:


> It is Crucial, the 2x32 in the link it is the NEW Micron *16*Gbit B-Die, do not confuse with the OLD
> Micron *8*Gbit B-Die, the new stock of 2x16GB kits are now Micron *16*Gbit B-Die *single *rank
> and not the Micron *8*Gbit *E*-Die *dual *rank, but this new *16*Gbit B-Die is good, +- the same as the* E*-Die, the 2x32 kit is DUAL rank.
> 
> ...



Do you think my BL16G36C16U4R.*M8FB1* one of those bad 8Gbit B-Dies? If so I'm planning on returning them. I better get those Trident Z Neos as the Crucial rams here are a bit dodgy.

Why isn't Crucial making things easy for us?


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## easyrider (Nov 22, 2020)

I’m running 4 x 16gb sticks of G Skill Flare X at 3200mhz with out issue....is it helps...


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## Pictus (Nov 22, 2020)

ComposerWannabe said:


> Do you think my BL16G36C16U4R.*M8FB1* one of those bad 8Gbit B-Dies? If so I'm planning on returning them. I better get those Trident Z Neos as the Crucial rams here are a bit dodgy.
> 
> Why isn't Crucial making things easy for us?



No, it is Micron *8*Gbit *E*-Die *dual *rank or Micron *16*Gbit B-Die *single *rank, both excellent!

To identify use Thaiphoon burner http://softnology.biz/ or
https://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/Memory-Tweak/Thaiphoon-Burner.shtml

Here my 2x16 3200MHz kit I overclock to 3733MHz


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## Dom100 (Dec 17, 2020)

Pictus said:


> IF you go for the 5950X, this is the RAM to get https://pcpartpicker.com/product/7Z...x-32-gb-ddr4-3600-cl16-memory-bl2k32g36c16u4b
> The review https://aphnetworks.com/reviews/crucial-ballistix-ddr4-3600-2x32gb
> The test in 128GB 3600MHz https://aphnetworks.com/reports/128...2gb-ddr4-ram-amd-ryzen-performance-benchmarks


Hi again Pictus - I'm about to order my new system with the 5950X and wanted to try out the RAM you suggested. Apparently it's only available at the moment in the more expensive LED version. I wondered if you had any ideas where to get it, or any other RAM suggestions, as I guess things are changing fast as it's a new processor. Thanks again!


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## Pictus (Dec 17, 2020)

HI,
Sorry, no idea where to find...
This is the alternative


https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bxNgXL/gskill-trident-z-neo-128-gb-4-x-32-gb-ddr4-3600-memory-f4-3600c18q-128gtzn


*But, I would wait/buy the Crucial RAM...*


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## sonic (Apr 7, 2021)

...Any updates on which RAM to get?


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