# Film scores with just a few themes/motifs?



## composerguy78 (May 11, 2018)

I am finding that when I am composing for a film I too often do not make use of themes enough. As a result I end up composing way more themes than necessary when just a few would have worked fine and probably made the film more cohesive. 

I am thinking I need to brush up my skills of working on developing themes and that it would help to study some movie scores that are good examples of this. 

Can anyone make some good recommendations of this? I am really looking for examples of where a single or a few themes are developed and used in different ways. 

Regards,

Felix


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## jneebz (May 11, 2018)

A contemporary example (of many examples you'll probably receive) is Harry Gregson-Williams' "The Martian" score. He uses the intervalic theme throughout but keeps it fresh and effective with the visuals in some simple but creative ways, IMO.


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## Eric G (May 12, 2018)

This may help. Musicologist frank Lehman has cataloged all of the Star Wars Motifs by John Williams.
https://www.academia.edu/33487589/Complete_Catalog_of_Star_Wars_Leitmotifs_Compiled_by_Frank_Lehman

Since most of the John Williams Star Wars music is published by Hal Lenard you can look at the variations in Score form.

You may have to register but it is free to download.

If you don't know all the techniques of motif variation, I would strongly suggest Norman Ludwin's book. It is the definitive guide on varying your music.

https://www.musicnewapproach.com/dev-variation


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## composerguy78 (May 12, 2018)

Thanks Jneebz - listening to the Martian score now!


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## composerguy78 (May 12, 2018)

Much appreciated Eric G.

I have no idea about this ! Good to know about the free download also!


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## Parsifal666 (May 12, 2018)

Jerry Goldsmith- Illustrated Man

A total master at variation (not to mention composition).


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## JVazquez (May 12, 2018)

In this playlist you can watch a lot of videos about how film music (themes included) is used. 

Many of these videos talk about how a theme develops narratively and also about its relationship with other themes. You can watch them in English too (or English subtitles, I think). Highly recommended. It's from the world's largest web of film music reviews (www.mundobso.com)

Ah, and his book is really recommended (and cheap!!). The best one I've read in a while. Or ever. I've found it very interesant about how to use the themes. In English or Spanish:
*https://tinyurl.com/y94jm2vc*

(I have no benefit, this is not advertising. Only advice )


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## aaronventure (May 12, 2018)

Star Wars. I mean, a lot of John Williams' scores are well developed.

If you want something more recent/modern: I recently saw Tintin. The "Unicorn" theme is always present in the movie after cue #5, and continues to evolve throughout the film. Very fun score.


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## Mike Marino (May 12, 2018)

You might consider the How To Train Your Dragon sound track. All themes are played in the opening cue, then you can hear their developments throughout the score. Maybe 3-4 themes total?


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## Living Fossil (May 12, 2018)

composerguy78 said:


> I am finding that when I am composing for a film I too often do not make use of themes enough. As a result I end up composing way more themes than necessary when just a few would have worked fine and probably made the film more cohesive.



Just to give an other aspect:
Personally, i often analysed e.g. operas from the "Pre-Leitmotiv-era" - for example some operas from Mozart.
Also song cycles (e.g. "Die Schöne Müllerin" from Schubert).
The interesting thing is, they are totally cohesive, but for different reasons.
Relying on recurring thematic elements is a great thing; but sometimes it's also cool if the music follows other parameters that create a coherent form.
Personally i think that the conscious use of tonal regions can be extremely useful; it's not perceived consiously (at least by 99.998% of the audience), but it can be felt.
So, if you have a tendency to work outside of the Leitmotiv-/recurring theme scheme, you can also try to develop alternative, personal tools to get a coherent dramatury.
My experience is that in the area of arts, personal, instinctive tendencies are there for a reason. If the inner voice suggests something - sometimes by refusing to adapt premade structures - it's a good thing to follow the trace...


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## composerguy78 (May 13, 2018)

Thank you everyone! This is really helpful - just what I was hoping for.

Living Fossil - can you clarify what you mean about using tonal regions?

Thank you!

Felix


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## Living Fossil (May 13, 2018)

composerguy78 said:


> Living Fossil - can you clarify what you mean about using tonal regions?



Adding keys to specific constellations/persons/situations etc.
The confrontation of different keys in different situations can be extremely useful to create contrasts, affinity, consequences.

Just some examples:

Tritone relations can highlight opposites. E.g. one person's music uses C-major, his opponent f#-minor.
(in bitter moon, Vangelis uses the love theme in the tritone key at the moment the love falls apart).

Ascending keys can highlight intensification. E.g. first part is in C-major, second in D-major, third in E-major etc.
(or C - Db - D; or: C- Eb - F# - A [which is a very traditional progression, also called "Teufelsmühle"]).
(descending keys have the opposite effect - loss of energy)

Mediant relations can highlight small contrasts, or bring a "fresh energy".
E.g. the music goes from C-major to Ab-major.

Ascending/Falling fifths can express that destiny lets things happen.
(have a look at the consecution of keys in which Laura's theme appears in the film "Laura" (dir.: Preminger, composer: David Raksin)

The classical literature is full of similar things. It's one of the most powerful tools of tonality, but also one that gets constantly overlooked, when people think that e.g. modulations are just the application of rules and random decisions... in fact, it's one of the strongest constructive tools.


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## Divico (May 13, 2018)

Requiem for a dream has just a few themes, though imo the soundtrack is really powerful.


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## MichaelM (May 13, 2018)

I might be wrong how I'm remembering this, but I feel like Ennio Morricone's score to The Mission, only used about 2 or 3 themes. The main one being Gabriel's oboe, and the other was like a very low basoon or contrabassoon theme for the Robert De Nero character. I remember these themes also being mostly fully developed when you heard them.


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## Parsifal666 (May 13, 2018)

MichaelM said:


> I might be wrong how I'm remembering this, but I feel like Ennio Morricone's score to The Mission, only used about 2 or 3 themes. The main one being Gabriel's oboe, and the other was like a very low basoon or contrabassoon theme for the Robert De Nero character. I remember these themes also being mostly fully developed when you heard them.



Listening to the Mission is educational from many perspectives...including strikingly melodic invention and applying variations thereof.


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## DoctorGuitar007 (May 13, 2018)

'Batman' ('89) is pretty much built around one thematic idea.


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## Eric G (May 13, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Star Wars? I mean, a lot of John Williams' scores are well developed.
> 
> If you want something more recent/modern...




The Motif resource I mentioned covers all the Star Wars films up to The Last Jedi so I don't know how you can get more recent. They also have links to the location in the score via YouTube.


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## aaronventure (May 13, 2018)

Eric G said:


> The Motif resource I mentioned covers all the Star Wars films up to The Last Jedi so I don't know how you can get more recent. They also have links to the location in the score via YouTube.



Sorry for confusing you with my poorly phrased opening. I meant it as a suggestion, not wonderment or skepticism towards the Star Wars recommendations, even though it can be interpreted that way. I've edited the question mark.

You've provided great resources. I didn't provide mine as an alternative but rather an addition since I've seen the film recently and liked what the score did with the few themes it had.


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## Eric G (May 13, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Sorry for confusing you with my poorly phrased opening. I meant it as a suggestion, not wonderment or skepticism towards the Star Wars recommendations, even though it can be interpreted that way. I've edited the question mark.
> 
> You've provided great resources. I didn't provide mine as an alternative but rather an addition since I've seen the film recently and liked what the score did with the few themes it had.



All good. Apologies if I took it the wrong way. I just wanted good suggestions as you did.


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## imagegod (May 13, 2018)

One of the all time great main themes...really knocks it out of the proverbial ballpark:


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## Ethos (May 14, 2018)

About Schmidt by Rolf Kent is a great one.


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## Paul Grymaud (May 14, 2018)

Hum... "*Out of Africa*", John Barry !

Main theme, great melody easily memorizable. Only a few notes... Start at 1:22
And a real good developpment ! Nice orchestration (violins, cellos, horns (flute)...)


Another example: "*Exodus*", Ernest Gold. Jesus ! What a great melody


Also, "*Lawrence of Arabia*", Maurice Jarre. Great melody


Always great (but simple) melodies. And then the arrangements.
They are other examples, of course

*Melody*: that's the key of success...


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## thesteelydane (May 14, 2018)

composerguy78 said:


> Can anyone make some good recommendations of this? I am really looking for examples of where a single or a few themes are developed and used in different ways.



This might seem like a crazy suggestion, but if you really want to learn to develop a simple theme, I suggest learning some traditional tonal counterpoint, especially by analyzing some Bach in depth. Try the 15 two voice inventions. Almost all of them are super short motifs masterfully spun into entire compositions. All the techniques you learn from that, like imitation, diminution, expansion, inversion, retrograde etc is the building block of stretching a theme for an entire movie. And by learning from the greatest of them all, in a style that’s not applicable to film music, you will force yourself to learn to apply these techniques in your OWN way, and that’s ultimatly more interesting than copying film music. 

Just a thought....


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## composerguy78 (May 14, 2018)

Thank you so much everyone! All great suggestions to check out. 

Thanks for suggesting the Bach variations - a good in-depth study for sure!


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## Rohann (May 16, 2018)

Oft overlooked, Joe Hisaishi's work for Studio Ghibli. Often only one or two main themes in a film, which are peppered throughout the whole score. Beautiful orchestration and composition in general:


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## jackifus (May 16, 2018)

About Bach…

Bergman’s Wild Strawberries has lovely thematic development and integration…

The score is based upon s fugal subject from Bach that begins with a rising fifth followed by a semitone above that then falls back to the tonic through a figure.

You can hear the composer develop the tension of that rising semitone as it is associated with a number of visual and narrative themes … developing the openness of the fifth in association with other themes …

Bach’s fugue itself is heard in the piano played by a character who, just as the second voice would enter, is taken by the hand where she and her lover eat together ~ the score picking up the fugue from her foreground playing…


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## DJJ (May 16, 2018)

composerguy78 said:


> I am finding that when I am composing for a film I too often do not make use of themes enough. As a result I end up composing way more themes than necessary when just a few would have worked fine and probably made the film more cohesive.
> 
> I am thinking I need to brush up my skills of working on developing themes and that it would help to study some movie scores that are good examples of this.
> 
> ...



Carter Burwell - Miller's Crossing score.


cheers


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## mgb (May 21, 2018)

Had to mention the Dune soundtrack here!


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## MA-Simon (May 27, 2018)

The Dinotopia Soundtrack probably:


3 part Mini-Series though, but the maintheme is everywhere. So much earworm humming after I watched it.


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## Saxer (May 27, 2018)

Psycho


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