# Online mastering services: experiences?



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 12, 2009)

Hi all,

I want to try online mastering services, using one track of mine. For a new blog that I am working on, as well as for submitting this track to a Library Music Publisher.

Have you ever tried this? Any good or bad experiences?

With good plugins and decent ears, can we just do this ourselves? My masters always sound a lot punchier and more balanced than my raw mixes. I use Waves plugs (EQ, multiband compression, drastic low cut < 30 Hz) and the Sonnox Inflator or Voxengo Elephant for limiting and adding harmonics.

I also have to check my SoS issues - they recently also did a shoot-out, if I remember well.

Curious!

Mano


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## Craig Sharmat (Aug 12, 2009)

I have used Oasis Mastering on line. They do many major albums. Their mastering is great and considering the equipment they use I would think you would have a hard time matching it with a plug.

This is for my smooth jazz single and will be for my album. Orchestral work I am not sure of the difference.

http://www.oasismastering.com/


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 12, 2009)

Thanks! I will contact them as well.
I just sent an email with some questions to Abbey Road mastering services and they replied promptly.

I hope they also want to listen to my own master as indication of what I like. I mean, the raw 24 bit bounces sound so dull in comparison with my own masters.

Stupid coincidence with my question about ScoreDog, Craig, as I already let you you know.

Will there ever be another one?

All the best!


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## bryla (Aug 12, 2009)

I highly recommend www.onlinemastering.dk

a remarkable engineer that really hears it all


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 12, 2009)

He apparently has so much work, that he does not accept new tracks!

:D

Thanks for the link!


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## dannthr (Aug 12, 2009)

Here's a guy for orchestral, really brilliant work--very personable:

http://www.johnrodd.com/


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 12, 2009)

Just curious, what do these guys charge?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 12, 2009)

Guy Bacos @ Wed Aug 12 said:


> Just curious, what do these guys charge?



What I saw for now is 60-110 euros (90 - 140 dollars?) per track


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 12, 2009)

dannthr @ Wed Aug 12 said:


> Here's a guy for orchestral, really brilliant work--very personable:
> 
> http://www.johnrodd.com/



Hi Dannthr,

Thanks, he presents himself as a mixer, does he also do mastering?


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## dannthr (Aug 12, 2009)

I believe so, at least the last time I spoke to him, he's also a recordist, but he didn't put that down on his tag line either.

I believe his old site used to say Mixer/Masterer, so maybe something changed?


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## PolarBear (Aug 12, 2009)

germancomponist @ Wed Aug 12 said:


> http://www.monoposto.de/
> 
> They are gooooood!


Their web is not very convincing technically. Does this also reflect their actual work? I mean dude, a scroll bar where nothing is to scroll, but then the player being half hidden, you gotta see and feel these kind of things even as internet novice. Plus I hate sites that resize my browser. Should be forbidden, it's my fucking desktop and they have to adjust the customer. You won't send a tape as composer when CD-R was requested. Can't judge the audio part, didn't hear a thing from them yet.


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## Craig Sharmat (Aug 12, 2009)

Emanuel @ Wed Aug 12 said:


> Thanks! I will contact them as well.
> I just sent an email with some questions to Abbey Road mastering services and they replied promptly.
> 
> I hope they also want to listen to my own master as indication of what I like. I mean, the raw 24 bit bounces sound so dull in comparison with my own masters.
> ...



I hope so, well not exactly the same as I doubt that is possible. We still have a small one but I like big dogs. My guess is we will travel first and consider another one later.
Thanks for asking.


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## Stevie (Aug 12, 2009)

Are you sure you should judge a mastering studio by their website? 
Check their references, there are some quite known among them.


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## tmhuud (Aug 12, 2009)

John Rodd is THE go to man for orchestral.


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## germancomponist (Aug 12, 2009)

Stevie @ Thu Aug 13 said:


> Are you sure you should judge a mastering studio by their website?
> Check their references, there are some quite known among them.



Yes, but I agree: Their o=< website is ........ .


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## Stevie (Aug 13, 2009)

I've seen worse :D


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## lulgje (Aug 17, 2009)

bryla @ 12/8/2009 said:


> Emanuel @ Wed Aug 12 said:
> 
> 
> > He apparently has so much work, that he does not accept new tracks!
> ...




John Rodd is an extremely versatile recording engineer / mixing engineer / mastering engineer. He has an amazing list of credits (around 200 feature film scores) and has worked in almost every major studio in town.

Currently he has built a state of the art facility that we in L.A. are looking forward to have a chance to have our mixes / mastering sessions done in.

He's great to work with, extremely professional, no surprises whatsoever (only good ones). I have had the chance to work with him on a few projects.
Highly recommended.


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## lulgje (Aug 17, 2009)

I read somewhere that Abbey Road Studios offers an online mastering service, pretty competitive prices too.


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## lulgje (Aug 17, 2009)

I read somewhere that Abbey Road Studios offers an online mastering service, pretty competitive prices too.


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## germancomponist (Aug 17, 2009)

Last week I have listend to some mixes done by John Rodd and I am very impressed!


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## MaraschinoMusic (Aug 17, 2009)

I don't know if I would trust an online service for pre-mastering. No reflection upon the ability of the engineer, but rather upon the delivery of the final product. Online delivery is fine for MP3s but I would be really nervous about the integrity of my precious files after flying about the internet 

I use the term pre-mastering as I was under the impression that mastering was the physical process of producing the glass master from which the CDs would be subsequently replicated - and pre-mastering was the process by which compression, leveling and EQ was applied to the finished mix. 

The two processes may be synonymous, and this may be mere semantics - language is continually changing and I may not be up to date on the correct parlance - somebody please put me straight on this


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## bryla (Aug 18, 2009)

The correct term IS pre-mastering, however the term mastering is generally understood as pre-mastering


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## germancomponist (Aug 18, 2009)

Emanuel @ Wed Aug 12 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I want to try online mastering services, using one track of mine. For a new blog that I am working on, as well as for submitting this track to a Library Music Publisher.
> 
> ...



Peter,

at these days I am testing something special. o/~ 
Can you perhaps send me 30 seconds or one minute wav?


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## lux (Aug 18, 2009)

mods this thread is really interesting what about having it as a sticky perhaps in the post pro mixing area?


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## John Rodd (Jun 8, 2010)

Hello everybody…..

A friend of mine mentioned that my name was mentioned here, so I thought i’d join, and offer some mastering advice.

Firstly - thanks to all for the many kind words. I’ve been recording, mixing and mastering music for many years, and I treat every project as if it is the most important project that I have ever done. I guess this is proving to be a good philosophy, after 20+ years in the biz.

I’m lucky enough to work in all genres of music….. people know me for virtual/hybrid/real orchestral work… but I do rock, electronica, jazz, folk, classical….. even hip hop. I recently mixed and mastered a 50 Cent track for a client… no joke. A partial list of my credits can be found on my website.

Mano started this thread by asking: “...With good plugins and decent ears, can we just do this ourselves?….”

A great mastering engineer has a number of tools at his disposal that 99.999999% of composers will not: 
- a large collection of analog processing gear (EQs, compressors)
- a very well acoustically treated room….. built specifically as a professional listening environment
- a very good monitoring setup
- top quality converters and clock
and *most importantly* - many years of critical listening experience, and great skills

I use plug-ins on a daily basis, but I also use very expensive analog EQs and compressors (for my recording, mixing and mastering work).
In my experience, for “heavy lifting”…. broad sculpting, big tonal boosts, and adding color, girth, width and depth to music… plugins do not come close to the best analog EQs and compressors, generally speaking.

I come to these conclusions after many, many blind, level matched comparisons between plug-ins, and many different pieces of analog gear.

I would also caution people who read the many advertisements that claim “our plugin faithfully models and recreates this analog gear…..”

To date I have not yet met an emulation that comes close to the real thing. Again… I do these comparisons in blind, level matched tests (with an engineer friend) to remove any biases.

I have noticed a recent industry trend that now many people with only a DAW (and little real experience or training) claim to be mastering engineers. The age old rule applies…. be careful of what you are paying for, and the service that you are actually getting. Your “mastering engineer” could well be a complete novice, working on headphones, out of a home bedroom. Sure the mastering might cost only $30 to $70 per song, for example…. but how will it sound?

To conclude: if you want your projects to sound like big budget productions…. I’d suggest that you get your music mastered the way the big budget productions usually do: by an experienced mastering engineer, using expensive analog gear, in a purpose built mastering studio.

If anyone has any questions - feel free to email me directly thru my website….. 

http://www.johnrodd.com/

regards

John


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## RiffWraith (Jun 8, 2010)

Hiya John, and welcome to the forum. Not sure if you remember me, but we spoke on the phone briefly a while back.

Thanks much for the info - it's good to see someone who knows their stuff posting on here, with some good info.

And for those of you who do not know who Mr. Rodd is, well, let's just say he is someone you will definitely want to listen to.

Cheers.


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## John Rodd (Jun 8, 2010)

I have never heard anything that Bob Katz has mastered that has really impressed me.....

He did, however, write a nice book.

:wink:


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## rgames (Jun 8, 2010)

John - any chance you could post an A/B comparison of an unmastered and mastered track? Any style would be fine. A few would be even better 

Mastering is a process that I have found difficult to put my finger on. I think most of us here either deliver mixes without much on the ouptut bus or do basic mastering ourselves (e.g. for library tracks).

A concrete example of how we could sweeten the sound with the aid of a professional would be a big help. I know it would for me, anyway, because while I certainly hear lots of tracks I really like (e.g. on your site), I have no idea what they sounded like before mastering (or pre-mastering, the more appropriate term, I suppose). So it's impossible to judge the effect of the mastering process.

So, bottom line, I've heard lots of great sounding tracks that have been polished by mastering engineers but I have no idea what they sounded like before they were mastered.

Thanks,

rgames


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## John Rodd (Jun 8, 2010)

rgames @ Tue Jun 08 said:


> John - any chance you could post an A/B comparison of an unmastered and mastered track? Any style would be fine. A few would be even better  .......
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> rgames



Heya

I *totally* understand where you are coming from........ but as you can imagine.... most (99%?) of my clients would not want their music floating around the internet.... even just a clip.

and I'd need to get approval, anyway..... from both the composer, and the composer's client.... so it gets complicated.

(this is one of the reasons why there are only a few clips on my website, and that those are mostly old-ish)


So I don't have things I can post at the moment.

However I will keep my eyes open for an opportunity.....

If I wasn't so busy I'd offer to master a track of yours for a discount, and with your permission post it here.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jun 10, 2010)

John Rodd @ Tue Jun 08 said:


> Hello everybody…..
> 
> A friend of mine mentioned that my name was mentioned here, so I thought i’d join, and offer some mastering advice.
> 
> ....



Hello John! 

Welcome to V.I. Control, thanks for joining!
Looking forward for your tips, recommendations and fun stories.

All the best,

Peter


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## John Rodd (Jun 10, 2010)

cinema once a week @ Thu Jun 10 said:


> Wow interesting topic ....
> 
> I have a little question for john ...
> 
> ...



Heya Marco

I know exactly what you mean...... good question.

You mentioned "narroing stereo image with MS plug".... I've never met a 'top' professional mixer who would do this..... so on that basis (and on my own experience) I'd recommend against it....

and... if you have access to a top analog compressor you could mix with a *little* bit of that on the mix buss.... but the problem with most plug-in compressors is that they tend to make the mix sound a bit smaller.... rather than bigger.

Do you have an example of a mix with and without the plugins you could post, and I could listen when i have a chance? Is that a possibility?

To answer your question... In a perfect world... i'd suggest *not* putting any plugins on the mix buss, and having a professional master your song, as long as he or she knows what they are using, and as long as they use some top quality analog gear. They should be able to 'beat' the plugins.

I do see your situation, tho...... tough one.


:D


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## saovi (Jun 10, 2010)

So provide the stems (not just two track) right? Dumb question I know but I've never used a mastering service. Btw nice seeing you here.


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## John Rodd (Jun 10, 2010)

saovi81 @ Thu Jun 10 said:


> So provide the stems (not just two track) right? Dumb question I know but I've never used a mastering service. Btw nice seeing you here.



no... I mean send the finished stereo mix to the mastering engineer... just keep all plugins off your mix buss.

(or provide one with your plugs on it - but as a reference only)


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## bluejay (Jun 10, 2010)

Just wanted to say that I've used Damon Tedesco - http://www.scoringmixer.com - on several occassions and always been very happy with the results and service. Plus Damon's just a genuinely nice guy who's easy to work with.

regards

James


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## cinema once a week (Jun 11, 2010)

Thanks John for the quick answer ...

So the best thing to do is try not to "improove" the mix ....if you have to send it to 

a mastering studio .... got it.

about narroing the image ..... usually my music needs (from my point of view) 

more Mid and less Side, about 2/3 db and the result is immediatly more on focus the 

Bass freq. are more centered I might be wrong I 'm not an expert at all ...

I don't have a place where to post an example but if I decide to try a pro mastering

I'll contact you, this is something I'm quite curious ... you know

thanks for the interesting chat,

marco.


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## Hannes_F (Jun 11, 2010)

John Rodd @ Tue Jun 08 said:


> Hello everybody…..
> 
> A friend of mine mentioned that my name was mentioned here, so I thought i’d join, and offer some mastering advice.



Hi John,

welcome and great to have you here. Your name is on many of the recordings that I regard as references and I hope I'll can hire you some day in the future.

Cheers
Hannes


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## John Rodd (Jun 11, 2010)

I thought i'd post three photos of my studio..... built from the ground up as a (recording / mixing / mastering) studio.... 

Designed by a top studio designer / acoustician..... the same guy who designed the renovation of the Fox Newman scoring stage, and studios for Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard..... among many other great studios.

There is a ton of acoustic treatment in the room... but it is all hidden behind the beige fabric....... and in the rear wall.... and the side walls.... the whole ceiling has various hidden acoustic treatments 12" thick...... below the actual ceiling.

John


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## Waywyn (Jun 12, 2010)

Just throwing in a german guy:
http://www.masterlab.de/

Andreas Balaskas. Apart from that he absolutely knows what he is doing he is a kind and very nice gentle person. He is mastering very musical and gets advantage of either the digital or analog field. In my eyes/ears simply perfect


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## Nino Rajacic (Jun 25, 2010)

Great Topic! 

+1 for sticky!


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## John Rodd (Feb 5, 2012)

I updated the photos above to be more current. I now have ATC 150's in my studio. :mrgreen: 

cheers

John


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