# Metagrid with MIDI faders coming soon



## Luke W (Jul 16, 2021)

Version 2 of Metagrid is about to go to beta testing. This video demonstrates the new feature of customizable MIDI faders and CC controllers.


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## InLight-Tone (Jul 16, 2021)

Bye bye Lemur...


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## Barrel Maker (Jul 16, 2021)

Hell yeah!


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## muziksculp (Jul 16, 2021)

Awesome ! 

Metagrid 2 with Faders 

I wonder when they will release it ?


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## DCPImages (Jul 25, 2021)

Looks great!


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## emilio_n (Jul 25, 2021)

Cool!


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## jcrosby (Jul 25, 2021)

Luke W said:


> Version 2 of Metagrid is about to go to beta testing. This video demonstrates the new feature of customizable MIDI faders and CC controllers.



Metagrid's my jam!!!! Best ios option available by miles IMO ❤️❤️❤️
And based on interactions with them in the past they'll almost certainly implement MIDI CCs in a very full-featured way, while also being straight forward to set up from the start...

IME the developer tends to do things intuitively from the 1st step if/whenever/wherever possible.... No satellite or extra apps on another machine... You build your surface(s) on your actual device then connect; it's all very straight forward...


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## Zedcars (Jul 26, 2021)

It says this under compatibility:


> Requires macOS 11.0 or later and a Mac with the Apple M1 chip.


Wow. So this won’t work with an Intel Mac? I was looking forward to getting this app. Surely this can’t be true??


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## jcrosby (Jul 26, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> It says this under compatibility:
> 
> Wow. So this won’t work with an Intel Mac? I was looking forward to getting this app. Surely this can’t be true??


That doesn't make sense. Historically Metagrid's been excellent about staying compatible with older versions of ios, and the current version of metaserver (the relay between ios and MG) is compatible with Yosemite and beyond. They'd lose a ton of intel mac users (such as myself) who rely on non-M1 compatibility.

*EDIT*: If you're viewing the app via the *MACOS* *app store* than there you go.... This is showing you macos native requirements to run MG as a macos *standalone* app, not the requirements actually needed to run MG in a production scenario. If you check compatibility via an ios device below you get the actual specs required to run MG on an ipad that talks to your machine via metaserver.

MG does not require a macos version of standalone app to run at all. So unless you're specifically looking to beta the standalone alone app inside of Xcode those specs should be totally irrelevant.









DOWNLOADS | METASYSTEM







metasystem.io






I'm sure if you hit the support button and email Przemek he'll clarify... See specs below.
(According to the latest build of Metaserver 10.10 is the current requirement.)


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## el-bo (Jul 26, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> That doesn't make sense. Historically Metagrid's compatible with older versions of ios, and the current version of metaserver (the relay between ios and MG) is compatible with Yosemite and beyond. They'd lose a ton of intel mac users (such as myself) who rely on non-M1 compatibility.
> 
> It could be that the beta, (or perhaps the earliest versions of the beta) are only m1 compatible. But I can't imagine they'd dump compatibility for intel mac users. MG is still up and coming, somehow I just don't see them being eager to trade compatibility of the majority of their users for a handful of AS users...
> 
> ...


Also a shame they don't support iOS9. A lot of people have, or can cheaply purchase old iPads. They're perfectly capable of running controller software, but little else, which makes them perfect to always be in situ, ready to go


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## jcrosby (Jul 26, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Also a shame they don't support iOS9. A lot of people have, or can cheaply purchase old iPads. They're perfectly capable of running controller software, but little else, which makes them perfect to always be in situ, ready to go


Any ios/macos inter-compatibility restrictions most likely fall squarely back in Apple's court.... ios 10/macos 10.10 is a pretty decent window of legacy support far as apple compatibility goes... Most current plugins don't even reach back to 10.10.


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## el-bo (Jul 26, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> Any ios/macos inter-compatibility restrictions most likely fall squarely back in Apple's court.... ios 10/macos 10.10 is a pretty decent window of legacy support far as apple compatibility goes... Most current plugins don't even reach back to 10.10.


I wouldn't expect such far-reaching backwards-compatibility were it not for the current versions of TouchOSC and TouchAble Pro both being iOS9 compatible


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## jcrosby (Jul 26, 2021)

el-bo said:


> I wouldn't expect such far-reaching backwards-compatibility were it not for the current versions of TouchOSC and TouchAble Pro both being iOS9 compatible


Fair enough... But different developers, so that's a bit like having a bone to pick with one plugin developer requiring 10.13 another 10.14... Sure it's not ideal and criticism's fair, but Macos 10.10/ios 10's still a pretty reasonable window of backward compatibility. Certainly more generous than you typically see in the plugin realm. I could have the same gripe about Live 9 not running in 10.15, but ultimately Apple plays a big role in what Ableton can afford to do to meet compatibility with the latest OS.

Either way the initial post's a false alarm. The macos 11 spec is specifically for running the app natively in macos which isn't how you actually use metagrid in production scenario... Only if you were to theoretically run it as a native app. (Which would't make much sense outside of testing it in Xcode, or checking it for native stability...)


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## AdamKmusic (Jul 26, 2021)

I’ve not really kept up to date with the updates of MG, but does anyone know if it’s an update to MG or a separate app to be purchased?


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## Zedcars (Jul 26, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> That doesn't make sense. Historically Metagrid's been excellent about staying compatible with older versions of ios, and the current version of metaserver (the relay between ios and MG) is compatible with Yosemite and beyond. They'd lose a ton of intel mac users (such as myself) who rely on non-M1 compatibility.
> 
> *EDIT*: If you're viewing the app via the *MACOS* *app store* than there you go.... This is showing you macos native requirements to run MG as a macos *standalone* app, not the requirements actually needed to run MG in a production scenario. If you check compatibility via an ios device below you get the actual specs required to run MG on an ipad that talks to your machine via metaserver.
> 
> ...


No, I was viewing it on the iOS app store on my iPhone.









‎Metagrid


‎Metagrid is a perfect companion for all creative Mac/Windows users who work with complex software like graphic suites, digital audio workstations or video-editing software. It enables you to streamline your workflow and control your favourite apps on Mac/Windows directly from your iPads (up to...



apps.apple.com





I am completely new to this app, so when I saw that requirement I assumed you would need a Mac app installed in order to communicate with the iOS app. Thanks for explaining this is not necessary.


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## el-bo (Jul 26, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> Fair enough... But different developers, so that's a bit like having a bone to pick with one plugin developer requiring 10.13 another 10.14... Sure it's not ideal and criticism's fair, but Macos 10.10/ios 10's still a pretty reasonable window of backward compatibility. Certainly more generous than you typically see in the plugin realm. I could have the same gripe about Live 9 not running in 10.15, but ultimately Apple plays a big role in what Ableton can afford to do to meet compatibility with the latest OS.



I've been dancing the Apple dance since 2007, so I'm quite used to the compatibility situation. The only time one of these seemingly-arbitrary compatibility cut-offs ever affected me was now (My 2012 MBP doesn't make the cut for either Big Sur or the latest LPX). And while I'm not really upset about it, I can see it might be irritating for many. 

Where this situation differs (At least, until confirmation comes) is that I can't see what it is about this app that would make it so different from the two that I've mentioned to make it incompatible, by Apple's standards.

Maybe there's something about this app that is more power-hungry than the others, such as Lemur etc. or maybe the developer doesn't currently own an older machine. 

The other possible reason - and I'm guessing this might be more likely - is that the developer just doesn't see the potential market from those who have old tech lying around, just waiting to become perfectly-usable, dedicated touch-controllers. And for those who don't currently own an iPad, picking up a cheap iPad3 might be a much easier/cheaper way to get into the world of touch control.


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## jcrosby (Jul 26, 2021)

el-bo said:


> I've been dancing the Apple dance since 2007, so I'm quite used to the compatibility situation. The only time one of these seemingly-arbitrary compatibility cut-offs ever affected me was now (My 2012 MBP doesn't make the cut for either Big Sur or the latest LPX). And while I'm not really upset about it, I can see it might be irritating for many.
> 
> Where this situation differs (At least, until confirmation comes) is that I can't see what it is about this app that would make it so different from the two that I've mentioned to make it incompatible, by Apple's standards.
> 
> ...


It could be that building in compatibility beyond the code the original was built on would require a rewrite of large parts of code. One other guess might be that it has to do with compatibility via python and the Metaserver app. Just guesses though, and totally see your point.


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## streamingtheatre (Jul 26, 2021)

AdamKmusic said:


> I’ve not really kept up to date with the updates of MG, but does anyone know if it’s an update to MG or a separate app to be purchased?


If I've read it correctly in various forums, Metagrid 2 is not available as an update, but is a standalone new - and paid - version. I've been using the app since the very beginning of its development, and I'm still thrilled with it. It allows you to customize your own complete production environment to your own workflow. So far, the prices have always been moderate.


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## AdamKmusic (Jul 26, 2021)

streamingtheatre said:


> If I've read it correctly in various forums, Metagrid 2 is not available as an update, but is a standalone new - and paid - version. I've been using the app since the very beginning of its development, and I'm still thrilled with it. It allows you to customize your own complete production environment to your own workflow. So far, the prices have always been moderate.


Ah I see, yeah I’ve been using it for a good few years now one of the best purchases I made. Think it was £15 or so, so would be happy to pay that for MG2


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## Eckoes (Jul 26, 2021)

MG2 with faders is the update I’ve been waiting for. 

Worth paying for all over again


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## el-bo (Jul 27, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> It could be that building in compatibility beyond the code the original was built on would require a rewrite of large parts of code. One other guess might be that it has to do with compatibility via python and the Metaserver app. Just guesses though, and totally see your point.


Until any further info is revealed, we can only speculate


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## shropshirelad (Jul 27, 2021)

Eckoes said:


> Worth paying for all over again


Not for me. I only purchase this yesterday! :-(


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## DaddyO (Jul 27, 2021)

shropshirelad said:


> Not for me. I only purchase this yesterday! :-(


Try contacting them to see if they will do something for you.


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## shropshirelad (Jul 27, 2021)

DaddyO said:


> Try contacting them to see if they will do something for you.


I sent an email earlier - I hope they can help!


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## markit (Aug 18, 2021)

The first sneak peak was posted on YouTube three months ago. I appreciate the transparency in posting a preview so early on, but does anyone know if there’s an even indicative release date for this?


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## Luke W (Aug 18, 2021)

markit said:


> The first sneak peak was posted on YouTube three months ago. I appreciate the transparency in posting a preview so early on, but does anyone know if there’s an even indicative release date for this?


It's in the first round of beta testing.


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## Oxytoxine (Aug 18, 2021)

Does anyone run Metagrid with Studio One 5.3? 

My experience was not that great - bought it last week and it would be a superb program, but it seems to be based on V. 4.6 and all the sound variarion macros, other new V5 stuft etc. is missing. This was nowhere indicated on the website.

I bought it specifically for articulation switching etc. Then contacted the support, but no reply. Later I found in their forum similar complaints, and also no or very delayed responses from the dev. 

Would you know whether this is "normal behavior" or not? I would like a stable long term solution that also from time to time gets updates for newer versions of the daws they claim to support.

Otherwise, it was really easy to setup and handle - much better than the other apps I tried.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant - was not my intention, rather a question for you longtime users


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## shropshirelad (Aug 18, 2021)

I sent the Dev a message a couple of weeks ago - no response.


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## Oxytoxine (Aug 19, 2021)

shropshirelad said:


> I sent the Dev a message a couple of weeks ago - no response.


Thank you for the confirmation. It's a pity :/


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## gst98 (Aug 19, 2021)

Oxytoxine said:


> Does anyone run Metagrid with Studio One 5.3?
> 
> My experience was not that great - bought it last week and it would be a superb program, but it seems to be based on V. 4.6 and all the sound variarion macros, other new V5 stuft etc. is missing. This was nowhere indicated on the website.
> 
> ...


He replies all day on the forum. Beta of 2.0 is running so he is probably very busy answering questions and fixing those issues. But I also had a same-day reply from his email last week.

Studio one v5 is still fairly new, is it not? His main priority has been metagrid v2 (pro) so updating studio one is probably low down on priorities. It's also a much less commonly used DAW so he'll have more of a demand to update the Cubase and Logic side of things.

Also, you mentioned articulation switching, but Metagrid v1 didn't have any special integration with expression maps or articulation sets, so currently S1 will switch artics the same with metagrid as you will with Logic or Cubase. That's one of the big things with the new version having bi-directional MIDI.


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## stigc56 (Aug 19, 2021)

Well the S1 implementation has been broken for some time now. If you look into the forum: https://forum.metasystem.io/forum you will find several people saying that. I think gst98 is right in that Przemek is VERY busy trying to make Metagrid Pro work.


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## Oxytoxine (Aug 20, 2021)

gst98 said:


> He replies all day on the forum. Beta of 2.0 is running so he is probably very busy answering questions and fixing those issues. But I also had a same-day reply from his email last week.
> 
> Studio one v5 is still fairly new, is it not? His main priority has been metagrid v2 (pro) so updating studio one is probably low down on priorities. It's also a much less commonly used DAW so he'll have more of a demand to update the Cubase and Logic side of things.
> 
> Also, you mentioned articulation switching, but Metagrid v1 didn't have any special integration with expression maps or articulation sets, so currently S1 will switch artics the same with metagrid as you will with Logic or Cubase. That's one of the big things with the new version having bi-directional MIDI.


Yeah, all fair points. I get that he is busy and that he has to support many many different programs - and also that Studio One is not the highest on the list when comparing user numbers.
Still - since when is all of this my problem as a customer? If you can not support your programs and you do not indicate that they do not function properly on your website with a program that you say they do - then you should maybe not sell them? He should at least indicate that V5 is not supported on the website. 
I mean I wrote very politely, said that I bought Metagrid V1 fully aware that V2 is around the corner (with no update pricing available) to support his work and asking whether he could kindly point me to a resource that might help me solve the problem. Even a short "sorry I am busy and will get back to you" or even an automatic reply would have been sufficient. I regularily have very nice and helpful interactions with many different devs - this attitude is really a novum for me.

Thank you for the tipp re his forum - I will try it there. But did you see - there are several unreplied support requests from different customers. I then wrote him again, specifically saying that I would not like to ask my question in public (on his forum) in order to not give potential customers a false impression - and again: nada.

Alas, now I have to be defensive for something that I do not want to - I like Metagrid, but this rubs me the wrong way. I think it's fair to also share such negative experiences and not only the good ones


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## gst98 (Aug 20, 2021)

Oxytoxine said:


> Yeah, all fair points. I get that he is busy and that he has to support many many different programs - and also that Studio One is not the highest on the list when comparing user numbers.
> Still - since when is all of this my problem as a customer? If you can not support your programs and you do not indicate that they do not function properly on your website with a program that you say they do - then you should maybe not sell them? He should at least indicate that V5 is not supported on the website.
> I mean I wrote very politely, said that I bought Metagrid V1 fully aware that V2 is around the corner (with no update pricing available) to support his work and asking whether he could kindly point me to a resource that might help me solve the problem. Even a short "sorry I am busy and will get back to you" or even an automatic reply would have been sufficient. I regularily have very nice and helpful interactions with many different devs - this attitude is really a novum for me.
> 
> ...


Yes, I'm not at all suggesting it's is good that you aren't even getting a reply, but I didn't realise you were aware of v2 coming out and how small the operation is (is it even just him? I'm not sure) and it's a very cheap app that probably isn't his full-time occupation. It's just one of those things with a small company like this, that you'll probably be more reliant on other user's help than the dev themselves. I hope you get a reply (have you sent a direct message to him on the forum? that might get his attention).

From what you've described I wouldn't classify this as not supporting S1 v5, nor that he isn't supporting his app. Every time MacOS updates, devs have to work on patching it. Does that mean they don't support it? No, it just takes a little time to catch up and there are priorities.

Even though v2 will have bi-directional communication, to get more integration with articulations than v1 currently has it will still depend on how open s1 is. Do you know whether s1 allows for articulation information to be read by 3rd parties? Cubase and Logic don't afaik, and the official s1 app is fairly limited when it comes to articulation switching and looks like they don't even support 2-way communication (at least for articulations). Metagrid doesn't support every feature that Logic and Cubase have, but that doesn't mean it doesn't support the latest versions.

I've been waiting for a month and a half for DV247 to even respond to me despite 5 emails regarding my slate VSX so I understand your frustration!!


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## DaddyO (Aug 20, 2021)

Oxytoxine said:


> If you can not support your programs and you do not indicate that they do not function properly on your website with a program that you say they do - then you should maybe not sell them? He should at least indicate that V5 is not supported on the website.


I do not own Metagrid, so my comments may be off base. Still, I couldn't resist chiming in.

I'm sure the developer is doing the best he can, and there are fair responses to some of complaints, but to me this particular complaint is completely warranted.

Trying to keep up with library updates and system updates has got to be a nightmare, but the very least one could do is warn potential buyers on the product page noting that it does not yet support the latest version, or what version it does support.


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## Oxytoxine (Aug 22, 2021)

gst98 said:


> Yes, I'm not at all suggesting it's is good that you aren't even getting a reply, but I didn't realise you were aware of v2 coming out and how small the operation is (is it even just him? I'm not sure) and it's a very cheap app that probably isn't his full-time occupation. It's just one of those things with a small company like this, that you'll probably be more reliant on other user's help than the dev themselves. I hope you get a reply (have you sent a direct message to him on the forum? that might get his attention).
> 
> From what you've described I wouldn't classify this as not supporting S1 v5, nor that he isn't supporting his app. Every time MacOS updates, devs have to work on patching it. Does that mean they don't support it? No, it just takes a little time to catch up and there are priorities.
> 
> ...


Yes, you are of course right - it is very impressive what this one man show can pull off and that all the updates required e.g. after a major OS and / or supported app update must be extremely time consuming to implement. 

I know Metagrid only for a few days and am still discovering how powerful it is - it works with so many different programs and is, compared to the alternatives, really straight forward to use. 

I just saw this thread shortly after I picked up Metagrid and briefly wanted to ask my original question / about your experiences in order to decide whether I shall just move on or stick with it - in no way did I want to start a long discussion or argument. I am just a beginner trying to find his way around this tool and was interested in your experiences with Metagrid / the dev (will there be updates at all, is radio silence from the support normal etc.). I understand that updates can take time 

I am also new to S1 and not sure about the underlying technology / how S1 allows 3rd party programs to read its articulation information. To my knowledge one has to go via macros, at least that’s what the S1 remote app is doing (just create a macro that searches for a corresponding name of a sound variation / articulation), very straight forward and easy. 

*The problem is that Metagrid* - to my knowledge, maybe it’s my user error (hence my support request to the dev) - *does not see the newer macro categories* (like e.g. the ones related to articulation switching / sound variations) *but is based on the S1 V 4.6 ones and thus I did not find a way to assign them*. It’s not about advanced 2 way communication etc. - it would be sufficient to just add the new macro categories and I did not find a way to do this by myself. 

Anyway, I will no longer derail this thread - have fun discussing Metagrid V2 - faders, 2 way communication etc. really looks promising!

Oh my - your Slate VSX experience sounds really frustrating - I hope that you will get it sorted! 

Best, 

Oxy


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## gst98 (Aug 25, 2021)

Oxytoxine said:


> Yes, you are of course right - it is very impressive what this one man show can pull off and that all the updates required e.g. after a major OS and / or supported app update must be extremely time consuming to implement.
> 
> I know Metagrid only for a few days and am still discovering how powerful it is - it works with so many different programs and is, compared to the alternatives, really straight forward to use.
> 
> ...


Well if you have a problem and don't mind posting it publicly then I'm sure lots of people will be able to help. I don't keep up with s1 much so I might not be much help. Regarding the macros, sounds like they just need to be added by him when he gets time. Would be nice to put a warning somewhere though. Can you assign the macros to keyboard shortcuts, and then trigger those with metagrid?

yes, I hope so too, thank you!


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## markit (Oct 28, 2021)

Does anyone know when the new version will ship? :O


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## gst98 (Oct 28, 2021)

markit said:


> Does anyone know when the new version will ship? :O


It's on Beta stage 2, and there will be a 3rd before release. So I would imagine a few months. Beta 2 is in pretty good shape for now though and very usable.


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## Elfen (Oct 29, 2021)

markit said:


> Does anyone know when the new version will ship?


From their forum reply, they seems to be set for a November release.


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## muziksculp (Oct 29, 2021)

November is going to be a very exciting month


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## scoringdreams (Oct 30, 2021)

Super Excited - FADERS (finally) !!!

This is going to be extremely useful without needing to lug around physical fader / knob / pad controllers (with the exception of a keyboard). An iPad Pro paired with the new generation MacBook Pros are going to be a very powerful duo for most of us composers. Developers who act on these opportunities are probably going to see big wins in the long run!


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## onnomusic (Oct 30, 2021)

really hoping for a to zero resetting fader option for pitch bend


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## jcrosby (Nov 3, 2021)

onnomusic said:


> really hoping for a to zero resetting fader option for pitch bend


I asked about this on their forum. He's certainly aware and interested in bringing this feature, (as well as the ability to use buttons to nudge velocity values up and down - which would be huge for Logic users such as myself...), but so far it sounds like it may not be in the very initial release... I have no concerns that it won't show up fairly quickly.

It does sound like development costs have outweighed sales so far though, so people should shout about MG2 from the rooftops if they wind up loving v2 to ensure it continues to flourish... (No fault to them! The ios app market is insanely competitive, way more so than plugin development)...

I personally think there's nothing else even close to MG2, especially given its native DAW support, deep integration with keyboard Maestro, and its ability to be used to control literally any application you use, both on mac or windows...


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## muziksculp (Nov 3, 2021)

So, how much longer for MG2 ?


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 3, 2021)

scoringdreams said:


> Super Excited - FADERS (finally) !!!
> 
> This is going to be extremely useful without needing to lug around physical fader / knob / pad controllers (with the exception of a keyboard). An iPad Pro paired with the new generation MacBook Pros are going to be a very powerful duo for most of us composers. Developers who act on these opportunities are probably going to see big wins in the long run!


Out of curiosity, is it that everything will be in one place that you're already using that's exciting? I ask, because there's plenty of MIDI controlling iOS apps out there with faders, knobs, switches, etc. for years and years - but those would be separate experiences, of course. I'm not trying to be snarky - again, just curious, as I don't have Metagrid.


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## onnomusic (Nov 3, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> I asked about this on their forum. He's certainly aware and interested in bringing this feature, (as well as the ability to use buttons to nudge velocity values up and down - which would be huge for Logic users such as myself...), but so far it sounds like it may not be in the very initial release... I have no concerns that it won't show up fairly quickly.
> 
> It does sound like development costs have outweighed sales so far though, so people should shout about MG2 from the rooftops if they wind up loving v2 to ensure it continues to flourish... (No fault to them! The ios app market is insanely competitive, way more so than plugin development)...
> 
> I personally think there's nothing else even close to MG2, especially given its native DAW support, deep integration with keyboard Maestro, and its ability to be used to control literally any application you use, both on mac or windows...


ah thanks, yeah fingers crossed. would be so nice not to swap between lemur and MG anymore... 
didn't even think about nudging velocity's but that would be rather awesome as well.


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## gst98 (Nov 3, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> I asked about this on their forum. He's certainly aware and interested in bringing this feature, (as well as the ability to use buttons to nudge velocity values up and down - which would be huge for Logic users such as myself...), but so far it sounds like it may not be in the very initial release... I have no concerns that it won't show up fairly quickly.
> 
> It does sound like development costs have outweighed sales so far though, so people should shout about MG2 from the rooftops if they wind up loving v2 to ensure it continues to flourish... (No fault to them! The ios app market is insanely competitive, way more so than plugin development)...
> 
> I personally think there's nothing else even close to MG2, especially given its native DAW support, deep integration with keyboard Maestro, and its ability to be used to control literally any application you use, both on mac or windows...


For now I have MG triggering MIDI transforms to adjust velocity and CCs.


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## scoringdreams (Nov 4, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Out of curiosity, is it that everything will be in one place that you're already using that's exciting? I ask, because there's plenty of MIDI controlling iOS apps out there with faders, knobs, switches, etc. for years and years - but those would be separate experiences, of course. I'm not trying to be snarky - again, just curious, as I don't have Metagrid.


I am probably one of the few sitting on the fence when it comes to the switch from hardware midi controllers to software-based like MG etc. The people around me use MG, so I had been hearing more about the MG brand than others like TouchOSC. I still foresee myself sticking to physical knobs and faders for the time-being, but being exposed to a software that does a similar thing indeeds excites me once in a while, especially now when new MacBook Pros are being released and the portable rig needs an upgrade.


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 4, 2021)

scoringdreams said:


> I am probably one of the few sitting on the fence when it comes to the switch from hardware midi controllers to software-based like MG etc. The people around me use MG, so I had been hearing more about the MG brand than others like TouchOSC. I still foresee myself sticking to physical knobs and faders for the time-being, but being exposed to a software that does a similar thing indeeds excites me once in a while, especially now when new MacBook Pros are being released and the portable rig needs an upgrade.


On iOS, there's Ribn, Knobcontrol, LFO Tool, MIDI Designer Pro, and others, for controls - outside of TouchOsc and Metagrid. That's why I was curious.


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## gsilbers (Nov 4, 2021)

the software editor looks vaguely familiar to the inteck controllers editor









Intech Studio


Grid modular controllers - class compliant MIDI and HID control.




intech.studio


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## markit (Dec 17, 2021)

No official release of v3 yet... :( Should I ask to be added to the beta? Would I need to buy v2 in order to do so?


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## muziksculp (Dec 19, 2021)

Any news about the update ? Will it be released this year ?


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## AdamKmusic (Dec 20, 2021)




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## Luke W (Dec 20, 2021)

They are continuing to roll out updated versions to the beta users (like me!). It's down to bug fixes - I think all the features for this version are now set. Feels like fine-tuning at this point. I don't know when it will be released.


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## muziksculp (Dec 20, 2021)

Luke W said:


> They are continuing to roll out updated versions to the beta users (like me!). It's down to bug fixes - I think all the features for this version are now set. Feels like fine-tuning at this point. I don't know when it will be released.


Thanks for the feedback. 

I'm guessing we can expect it released during Q1-2022.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 9, 2022)

For some reason, my Metagrid is not working now on Mac on Cubase. I can't get it to trigger any user macros (which I've assigned in the Generic Remote area of Cubase). Any ideas?


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## AdamKmusic (Jan 9, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> For some reason, my Metagrid is not working now on Mac on Cubase. I can't get it to trigger any user macros (which I've assigned in the Generic Remote area of Cubase). Any ideas?


Checked metaserver? The midi settings might’ve changed? I used to have it happen a lot


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 9, 2022)

AdamKmusic said:


> Checked metaserver? The midi settings might’ve changed? I used to have it happen a lot


Seems to be setup right - I can get some of the buttons to do stuff (change visibility configuration, key commands, change grid settings, etc), but for some reason, the macros / scenes aren't firing correctly. The console says "Keyboard Maestro not detected" or "No permission for Keyboard Maestro detected" - not sure how to fix that.


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## jcrosby (Jan 9, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Seems to be setup right - I can get some of the buttons to do stuff (change visibility configuration, key commands, change grid settings, etc), but for some reason, the macros / scenes aren't firing correctly. The console says "Keyboard Maestro not detected" or "No permission for Keyboard Maestro detected" - not sure how to fix that.


This might be low hanging fruit, but have you tried quitting and restarting the server? Once in a blue moon I've found I'd need to quit and restart the server if something wasn't being picked up by the DAW....


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 9, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> This might be low hanging fruit, but have you tried quitting and restarting the server? Once in a blue moon I've found I'd need to quit and restart the server if something wasn't being picked up by the DAW....


Yeah, I have restarted the server a bunch of times. At this point, I'm wondering if I need to try another option, like TouchOSC or Lemur.


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## jcrosby (Jan 9, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Yeah, I have restarted the server a bunch of times. At this point, I'm wondering if I need to try another option, like TouchOSC or Lemur.


It's really rare I need to restart metaserver, MG's generally very solid for me. I'm not in Cubase though so not sure how that might affect anything... I'm on 10.15, what OS are you on? And perhaps try uninstalling then reinstalling meta server? Certainly wouldn't hurt given that you're already frustrated enough to look at other options...


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 9, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> It's really rare I need to restart metaserver, MG's generally very solid for me. I'm not in Cubase though so not sure how that might affect anything... I'm on 10.15, what OS are you on? And perhaps try uninstalling then reinstalling meta server? Certainly wouldn't hurt given that you're already frustrated enough to look at other options...


I'm on 11.6.2 (Big Sur). I have tried removing and reinstalling Metaserver as well (unfortunately, it is so hard to keep track of how OSX's privacy settings are working these days). Just left a post on the Metasystem's forum, so let's see if I can figure it out.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 9, 2022)

Ok seem to have fixed this - the manual is not very clear, but you need to keep the midi input / out for the macro remotes to be Metasystem Cubase In / Out (not Metasystem MIDI In / Out).


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## Trevor Meier (Jan 13, 2022)

@jcrosby and other Logic users, how are you finding Metagrid Pro? How are you using it in your workflow? 

I've been using TouchOSC, but it's a lot of work to set up how I want... for example, I've had to code a custom LUA script just so that my UACC KS articulation buttons will toggle on and off across all articulation types. Interested to know how you're getting on with MGP?


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## jcrosby (Jan 15, 2022)

Trevor Meier said:


> @jcrosby and other Logic users, how are you finding Metagrid Pro? How are you using it in your workflow?
> 
> I've been using TouchOSC, but it's a lot of work to set up how I want... for example, I've had to code a custom LUA script just so that my UACC KS articulation buttons will toggle on and off across all articulation types. Interested to know how you're getting on with MGP?


MG Pro isn't out yet. They're apparently super close, but still testing any final/basic bugs...
(If you want to track progress you might keep the link below on a page in your browser, they say any day now, I'm trying to be realistic).

I've thought about signing up for the beta, but I have a brief going through mid Feb so I've chosen to be wise and stick with the current stable version...


https://forum.metasystem.io/forum/metagrid-pro/beta/general-info/3377-mg-pro-status-for-22-01-10



So basically in the short term it isn't a replacement for TOSC, Lemur, etc currently. That said, it's also quite different from TOSC/Lemur. Currently they excel in different ways, once CCs/sliders are available though it should be a whole new ball game.

I'd hang in there patiently and see what v2 looks like when it releases. Fingers crossed we'll see it available in the next month or so.


MG currently can:


** See and control whatever program your OS lists as the _foreground_ application. (Not just macos, but Windows too). It also automatically detects, and switches to the grid for the foreground application. (Mind you this means if you have not built a grid for the foreground app you'll see an all black empty grid)...

This means you can make a grid for literally ***ANY*** program. That could be Reaper, it could be Firefox, it could be something obscure like Handbrake...

There are some pre-made ones as well... That said everyone works differently and I wound up building my own grids from scratch. It took a few weeks but it's been worth it...

As an example - I've been MG using all day to day to tag samples with keywords in one of sample management programs. The grid took about 2 or so hours to build, that said, I was tagging samples all afternoon. Two hours of work quickly lapped the time I spent earlier in the day tagging when I didn't have a grid for the program. 



** MG can send Note on off and static CC values. Basically you can use it for things like key switching or expression maps as of now, but v2 should offer just about anything TOSC/Lemur does, but with a whole bunch of other whistles and bells described below. (I'm sure I've overlooked a bunch of stuff too)...

As a quick aside, the static CCs were also useful for non-musicans - programmers or web devs for example - that use Keyboard Maestro. KM responds to MIDI data, but doesn't use them for musical functions per se... So my hunch is the current MIDI implementation was a middle ground between musicians and programmers/developers... But full CC implementation will arrive in v2.




** MG can send macros. MG can chain events together, making buttons perform complex actions. Add Keybaord Maestro into the equation and it's kind of insane where you can take it.




** MG also works with Keyboard Maestro (for those on macos)... The equivalent could be built on PC from scratch, but at least for those on macos KM inetgration is thorough. You can basically make your DAW (or plugins) do things that might otherwise be impossible.

I have a routine that can create 8 VEP channels in Logic, assign colors, track icons, and rename tracks, all from one button... The routine can do this about 20x faster than I ever could... That said _KM _has its own quirks... It's more efficient if you keep macros small, and don't overuse its image recognition technology. So you can do some crazy stuff with MG.... But you need to be realistic.

That said KM has a learning curve, and it's been quirky in Logic - *not* because of KM or MG, but because Apple keep dicking-around with the Logic/macos UI. I'll spare the details - TL;DR - these would be fine if Apple would just stop fucking around with logic's GUI. 

Also keep in mind if you're not in Logic you're probably better off  Logic relies way too much on the GUI, making KM necessary. Cubase, S1, and other DAWs with macros that can be assigned to shortcuts have the win here. (I longingly tilt my gaze toward S1 as I write this... Logic is starting grate on me per the issues listed above...)





** You can think of MG like a Streamdeck perhaps... (But one that will soon have all of the CC power of TOSC, or Lemur, etc)... You can basically make buttons for anything... But unlike a S.D., MG is not limited by physical buttons. You can essentially go as deep as you want, but overall it _should_ be quicker and more straight forward. (Mind you I do *NOT* own a S.D. I might be super clueless about how flexible they are, but my impression is that MG can be thought of as a more practical - and what looks to be - simpler and more forward thinking alternative...) That said, it requires an ipad, in which case it's pricier if you don't already own one... If you do though it's a bargain... Same appraoch, but what looks to be far more flexible. Once CCs come to the table then it's a new ball game...





** MG currently does not send CCS. (But will as soon as MG2 ("Pro") is available... I have a hunch CC integration will be pretty good for most scenarios when v2/Pro releases, but realistically will take a few point versions to improve for more complex stuff. Basically CC1/11 rides will be fine. But if you might want to do something like combine the two I'm guessing this might be a few point versions out...

Overall though, I have no doubt that in short order MG will be able to do anything TOSC can do, but will also bring tons of extra features TOSC/Lemur like the ones mentioned above...


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## Trevor Meier (Jan 15, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> MG Pro isn't out yet. They're apparently super close, but still testing any final/basic bugs...
> (If you want to track progress you might keep the link below on a page in your browser, they say any day now, I'm trying to be realistic).
> 
> I've thought about signing up for the beta, but I have a brief going through mid Feb so I've chosen to be wise and stick with the current stable version...
> ...


Thanks! That's a great overview. I love Logic for many reasons, but the limitations in macros & automation are a big PITA at times.


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